# New York, NY - OTA



## cpto

I've been following the NYC five boroughs thread and I don't easily find the information I'm looking for in it.


I hope those of us with antennas can start a thread restricted _only_ to the status of Over-The-Air broadcasts from NYC to the metro area. Not CT, not PA, and not any other state a strange bounce may have enabled you to get. Antennas and amps are already covered in different threads, so let's leave them out too.


I'd also like to keep cable out of this entirely since one has to pay for cable, and not all systems carry HDTV, much less the NY/NJ channels.


So, with luck, we'll get some interested and informed members keeping us up to date on the politics and engineering efforts to restore the signals that died on 9/11. I'd like to see information on dates, power (temp low or full) and channels. I suspect there are a lot of us that would like that info too.


Please add any information you may have to the thread. If it's a bad thread, it'll die. But hey, that's evolution in action.


Rick


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## stevehoff

I'm with you! What's up with this? Didn't I read that we should expect something in the Fall? Any updates?


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## George Thompson

I just talked to one of the maintenance guys in local. He was telling me about delays that Empire threw into the mix. Like during a site inspection, our chief walked into the room only to find a fully staffed medical office with patients!!!!! ESB is milking rent for all they can get.

November 1st is a date he mentioned. However, we have options with several transmitters in the building. We could have one up and running as soon as the combiner is set up.

I didnt hear about Fridays conference call. It was to have been about legal and operations issues with the CE's.

More when I find out.

GT


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## stevehoff

Thanks George,

Please keep us posted. there are a few of us with antennas out here who just want to get more than CSI!!!!

Steve


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## RAVEN56706

i keep hearing the 1st of sept for abc and aug 31st for nbc.


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## cpto

Thanks, George. I'm wondering if you have any information on the radiated power and coverage of the new ESB transmitters. I'm hoping they'll be close to the ones on the WTC so I can receive them here in NJ.


Unfortunately, given the ugly politics that have cropped up about the location for a new antenna, or even a temporary one on Governors Island, I wouldn't be too surprised to see the new transmitters at a much lower power than the old ones, or with different footprints that ignore much of NJ, while the NYC stations wait to see what happens when the dust clears.


Rick


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## hobojoe

finally, a real ota only nyc thread! no more stupid mets schedules, please.


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## JoeCraw




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hobojoe_
> *finally, a real ota only nyc thread! no more stupid mets schedules, please.*



What about Mets OTA WPIX schedules?










Joe


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## cpto

Joe - I think that's a good question but I don't think it belongs in this thread. I think a better question would be _"Does anyone know when WPIX will go back to their originally-assigned UHF channel, and what its power level and coverage will be compared to pre-9/11._"


I miss the Mets' broadcasts too, but in this thread the schedule is really irrelevant. Even when WPIX _does_ resume broadcasting, I would like this thread to concentrate only on reception issues. I think schedules of Mets' games should have its own thread..


I hope we can stay focused here _solely_ on information regarding the going-live dates, power, and coverage of the returning NY OTA HDTV channels.


Rick


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## John Tillman

I tried to tune in WEDW-49 (PBS-Bridgeport) or WLIW-22 (PBS-Plainview) last night to watch the Tom Petty concert but could not get a digital signal (got analog OK).


Tried again earlier today and got the same results... Plus WTNH-10 (ABC-NH) was DOA as well. CSI was A-OK last night (empire).


What gives? Anyone got a digital signal from PBS? Soundstage is on again tonight.


Thanks.


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## trekkerj

I checked out soundstage last night also. Came in fine on WLIW-DT from North Jersey.


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## ponnie1996

got to view tom petty on 49 wedw no prob last night. abc 10 was fine also. could be your set up.


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## John Tillman

Thanks guys, I'll review my gear setup and where the rotor is pointing my antenna. Empire State Building stuff is fine, so the problem must be the rotor position.


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## MicroChip

Ok, I just checked the schedule and the Giants are on MNF the second week of the season, September 15th. Think we're going to have ABC-HD by then?


MC


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## cpto

Can we please keep this to NYC HD channels? There are other threads that address receiving PA/CT stations, antennas, rotors, and so forth.


I'm purposely trying to keep this thread limited to the status, strength, and estimated on-air dates of NYC channels.


Thanks.


Rick


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## JoeCraw




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *I hope we can stay focused here solely on information regarding the going-live dates, power, and coverage of the returning NY OTA HDTV channels.*



Ok Rick, for what it is worth I will give a little summary of what channels I can receive and my equipment.


I have an RCA DTC-100, a UHF/VHF Radio Shack antenna and a Radio Shack amp. I am located in Plainview, NY, which is right in the middle of Long Island (north to south) and on the Nassau/Suffolk border. With the antenna pointed to NYC I receive the following digital signals:

WCBS 2-1 (Strong with great HD)

FOX 5-1 (Strong but not HD)

WOR 5-2 (Strong but lousy picture quality)

WPIX 11-1 (12-1,75-1) (Good with great HD, a few breakups)

WLIW 21-1 (Fair with great HD, many breakups, but watchable)


If I turn my antenna North toward CT I can receive:

WTNH (ABC) on channel 10-1 (Good with great HD, a few breakups)


As far as the return of some NY OTA channels, the man to ask is George Thompson. The last post I read from him said "Early Sept is a little too optimistic I think" but he does believe the ESB combiner will be going this fall.


Hope this helps,

Joe


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## bgut1

George - Is there anything we can do to get ABC up in time for MNF (i.e. letters to the FCC, network heads, contributions)? I know this has been a herculean task getting everyone to agree on the combiner but aren't the networks even a bit embarrassed how long this is taking? Its not like we are in the #1 DMA or anything.


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## cpto

For what it's worth, I recently sent a letter to the WSJ. Don't know if it will do any good but at least they might think about it...


I would like to suggest a possible article for the WSJ. This has been widely discussed in the HDTV areas of avsforum ( www.avsforum.com ).


The destruction of the World Trade Center building had an enormous effect on the Nation. Congress rapidly passed bills authorizing payments to those who lost their lives, and pledged billions more to help the city. It seemed that the US came together following 9/11.


Yet one aspect has been largely ignored. Before 9/11, NYC, the number one television market, had HDTV broadcasts for the three major networks, Channel 11, and a digital signal from FOX. Following the attack, only channels 2 and 5 remained (with channel 9 sharing channel 5's bandwith).


One might think that in a time of crisis the area would have pulled together to provide rapid installation of the antennas that were lost. Possibly the best site - Governors Island - was rapidly rejected by the mayor. Problems with government agencies and local townships caused the collapse of efforts to install transmitters in NJ.


Finally, the stations "agreed" to piggyback on the transmitters that were in place in the Empire State Building. Some problems were real - such as the need to run new power lines up to the top of the building or to get new equipment. Others were money - there appears to have been a lot of conflict and negotiating over the rates CBS (and perhaps FOX) would charge other networks to piggyback their signals. The "long-term" interrim goal is to build a $M 50 temporary tower on Governors Island. All that means is more delay and an increase in advertising rates as the local stations cover their costs.


Two facts seem to have been forgotten. Broadcast TV is a means of reaching almost everyone in the metro area that has a television set, regardless of whether thay have cable. And, the FCC is pushing the conversion to digital of all broadcast stations.


I know this is not a story of major interest, but I think it does indicate how the interests of the public are subsumed to politics - even when the interest is the potentially critical one of being to receive television news and programming. Approximately 2.1 million ditigal sets were sold in 2002 - see http://www.digitaltelevision.com/200...igital_1.shtml - so the market is not small.


In summary, it would be interesting to see the WSJ investigate the delays in getting a permanent solution to NYC digital transmission. Something is going on here - money or politics - and the end result is that the public is being shortchanged.


Sincerely,


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## John Mason

Nice letter and article idea, cpto. Perhaps as a sidebar to such an article, or as an editorial, the WSJ could consider how misguided greed and politics blocking reestablishng NYC HDTV might be considered assisting the goals of the terrorists. -- John


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## vruiz

I'm still baffled as to why the stations and the MTVA did not flex any of their considerable PR muscle with regards to the best location (Governors Island) as the permanent site. They just asked the Mayor, he said no, and they just said "ok". Can you imagine the PR nightmare for City Hall if there had been ANY media reports on how the Mayor is laying off cops and firefighters and cutting all kinds of services, yet he summarily rejects a project that would bring millions of dollars in taxes to the city coffers, simply because it doesn't agree with his "vision" for the island?


Hey Bloomberg, when you have a budget crisis such as this one you can't afford a "vision"!


I just don't understand why the MTVA didn't exploit this angle. If they had, the permanent tower on Governors Island would already be on its way.


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## cpto

Vic - _very nice_ comments. Maybe you should mail them to the NYT and WSJ. I hadn't considered the tax loss NYC will experience by refusing the Governors Island Site.


Rick


PS - Nice to see you in the thread!


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## hobojoe

hoboken, nj. i have a great view of the esb. 2.1(56)-100%, 5.1/2(44)-100%, 11.1/2(12)-95%, 13.1/2/3(61)-98%. now, wliw-dt22, for some reason, wont register when i try to add it to my channel list. during the day it comes in at 30%, but after 11pm it comes in at around 80%. i'm using a sony sat-hd100 with a radio shack vu190 or vu120. can't remember exactly, but its pretty big. no preamp, no amp. btw, its not like i hate the mets or anything, its just that the other nyc thread was really getting off topic and tv schedules kept popping up almost every day. so anyone else having problems with 22?


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## hayt

Good thread, let's not let it get away. I love the news about ABC and NBC!! I live in East Rockaway, south shore of LI. With a RS rooftop UHF/VHF I'm getting very strong (west)CBS, FOX, and UPN.WPIX is maddeningly inconsistent-some days its in the 50's (on my RCA DTC100) and others its in the 30's, and not watchable. Met games looked very good, (as good as FSNY and MSG from CV) and so did Smallville. With a set top RS amplified antenna, I get a good signal (east)on WLIW-DT on 22-2,3. HD looked superb (Tom Petty was very colorful and sharp). I have had no luck with WNYE (channel 24), PBS (61) or WLNY (57).


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## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hayt_
> *I have had no luck with WNYE (channel 24)*



WNYE-DT was last on the air about 1.5 years ago.


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## Bob Hawley

For the last several weeks, and again last night during Smallville, I've tried to find WPIX-DT and I get nothing, not even "weak signal." I live in Stamford, and I'm using a Winegard 9095 aimed at NYC, a Winegard AP4800 preamp and a DTC-100. Last night signal strengths for CBS and Fox were in the high 80s, and WLIW was in the 40s (but erratic, sometimes diving into the 20s), but no indication of any signal at all from WPIX. I understand that WPIX is broadcasting with low power, but shouldn't I get something? If I hadn't read otherwise here, I would think that WPIX, like ABC and NBC, was not broadcasting OTA. Is it me or WPIX?


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## MrMartin

Bob, as your current Winegard 9095 is UHF antenna only, you will not be able to receive WPIX until station changes from their temporary VHF channel 12 to UHF 33.


Martin


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## Bob Hawley




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MrMartin_
> *Bob, as your current Winegard 9095 is UHF antenna only, you will not be able to receive WPIX until station changes from their temporary VHF channel 12 to UHF 33.
> 
> 
> Martin*



I was afraid that something like that was going to be the answer. Do we know when WPIX is expected to change to UHF 33?


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## Bill Broderick

Over the last week or two, my reception of CBS & Fox has not been great. I used to get both of these stations at a solid 100 signal strength (Toshiba DST-3000). Now they are both fluctuating between high 70's low 80's.


I'm in western Suffolk County. Has anyone else been having reception problems lately?


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## wilsonjd

Is there anyone out there in the Hudson Valley? I live in Poughkeepsie, NY. I think our chances of EVER getting OTA reception a slim and none. Maybe if they build the 1776 foot tower at the WTC site.


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## Bob Hawley




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bob Hawley_
> *. . . Do we know when WPIX is expected to change to UHF 33?*



Trying to answer my own question, I read the 19 pages of the WPIX thread, and no one seems to know for sure. The best guess seems to be that WPIX will go full power on UHF channel 33 from the ESB when the other digital stations begin broadcasting from the ESB. Which cannot happen soon enough, so far as I'm concerned.


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## chadamir

I'm less than 18 miles from ESB and can only get around 30 percent with a silver sensor and a myhd card. I tried an rca ant200 also and wasn't any better


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## Vermonster

This is my first time in this particular part of the forum, so I'm sure this is going to sound very newbyish. I haven't seen anyone from Manhattan yet post to this thread and I'm wondering if it's because no one can get decent reception here. I was considering getting an OTA box but was told that 8-VSB doesn't work so well in metropolitan areas (supposedly it has difficulty with multipath issues created by moving vehicles, planes, etc. Is this true? Or are people smack dab in the middle of the city in fact able to enjoy OTA HDTV?


Thanks.


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## bgut1

I've emailed the chief engineer of WPIX asking if they intend to boost the power on 12 and when they anticipate switching to 33. I'll post his response when I get it.


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## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Vermonster_
> *This is my first time in this particular part of the forum, so I'm sure this is going to sound very newbyish. I haven't seen anyone from Manhattan yet post to this thread and I'm wondering if it's because no one can get decent reception here. I was considering getting an OTA box but was told that 8-VSB doesn't work so well in metropolitan areas (supposedly it has difficulty with multipath issues created by moving vehicles, planes, etc. Is this true? Or are people smack dab in the middle of the city in fact able to enjoy OTA HDTV?
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



Manhattanites don't watch TV - there's too much else to do.










I have seen some Manhattan residents post in the local NYC-NJ forums and I do seem to recall a good number of them having reception issues.


For those receiving WLIW, exactly what channel is it? I've seen so many different channels listed for it. I'm never able to pick it up with the channels I've inputed, but I see that some people from NJ (I'm about 10-15 miles from NYC) get it. I have my antenna pointed at the ESB, but also have a rotator so I'm flexible. Am I just too far away at this point?


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## trekkerj

No you're not too far. I'm in Parsippany and I can pick it up with my indoor UHF antenna with a preamp. It's Ch. 22 from Plainview, LI. 22-1 and 22-2 which will map to virtual 21-1 and 21-2.


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## cpto

I guess we really need some local expertise on this. I spent almost an hour trolling through the FCC pages and search engines and couldn't find any specific dates approved by the FCC for WABC-DT and WNBC-DT.


If anyone can point to the current FCC sapprovided build-out date for the remaining NYC stations could you please post it here?


Thanks.


Rick


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## George Thompson

All stations on the ESB are covered by extensions....... no specific date.

GT


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## cpto

Thanks, George. That's sort of what I got from the FCC pages. I would think that the FCC would be a little more up front about the public licenses and extensions it grants...


Rick


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## SteinyD

I'm in NJ (Morris County) and getting CBS and FOX just fine. I would suspect NBC and ABC would be put up with equal strength. As there doesn't appear to be a nearterm decision on the new tower, I don't think they would limit the power for that reason.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *Thanks, George. I'm wondering if you have any information on the radiated power and coverage of the new ESB transmitters. I'm hoping they'll be close to the ones on the WTC so I can receive them here in NJ.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, given the ugly politics that have cropped up about the location for a new antenna, or even a temporary one on Governors Island, I wouldn't be too surprised to see the new transmitters at a much lower power than the old ones, or with different footprints that ignore much of NJ, while the NYC stations wait to see what happens when the dust clears.
> 
> 
> Rick*


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## imws

from a fellow manhattanite to another 8-VSB rocks and it works better than you can imagine. btw the double bowtie on the floor of my apt picked up all the digital stations in the NYC metro area pre-9/11 and at high signal levels. stations received back then OTA were WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WABC, WWOR, WPIX, WNET, WNYE. So as you can see my first hand experience with OTA 8-VSB has been truly amazing. all you need is a RS double bowtie and you're in business. line of sight is not required either. the double bowtie is UHF only so if you want to receive WPIX then you'll need a VHF antenna as well.


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## Vermonster

Cool,


You said you got all those channels pre-911. How many do you get now?


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## imws

i get the following OTA stations w/ an RCA DTC100 and the RS Double Bowtie.


WCBS-DT at signal level 79

WYNY-DT at signal level 75


that's with the double bowtie oriented NorthEast away from the ESB. I have north facing windows and my signal levels are higher when I point the antenna towards the window. i'm on the 3rd floor which is not very high up btw.


that's it unfortunately. i haven't tried WPIX-DT since you need a VHF antenna for that. If you want more stations then TWC-NYC offers the above in addition to the following:


WNBC-DT

WABC-DT

WNET-DT

SHOHD

HBOHD


??WPIX-DT recently added and subsequently dropped


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## cpto

Bill - I'm 22 air miles from the ESB. Even with a rotor, amp, and "fringe" antenna, the NYC stations are very susceptible to degradation from rain, snow, and UFO's cruising around Manhattan.


I suspect that at least some of your problem comes from the lousy weather we've had in the last couple of weeks. Since lower UHF channels on the whole have to have a greater range I'm wondering why WCBC-DT accepted channel 56 instead of one of the lower ones that would give it greater coverage. Maybe they had nothing to say about it but it reminds me of the fights I've read about in the early days of TV broadcasting where the networks were fighting for the lower VHS channels and PBS usually got one of the higher ones.


Maybe that's why CBS-DT drops out when FOX-DT is still fine (Fine in the sense of the signal, not the _type_ of digital signal they're transmitting).


Rick



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bill Broderick_
> *Over the last week or two, my reception of CBS & Fox has not been great. I used to get both of these stations at a solid 100 signal strength (Toshiba DST-3000). Now they are both fluctuating between high 70's low 80's.
> 
> 
> I'm in western Suffolk County. Has anyone else been having reception problems lately?*


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## ponnie1996

Personally, I'm trying to figure out why my CBS ch 56 signal is anywhere from 50s to 100 signal strenght but FOX NY 44 ranges from teens to 51 strength.


and even when I have a 51 strength, the picture pixelates and does not stay steady. I'm assuming that Fox is transmitting at lower(??) and that I'm getting intererence.


why only on 44 though since they both transmit from ESB?


BTW, I have 2 ant in attic (4228 facing north for CT, and RS V120 facing towards NY into combiner with CM preamp) and live about 60 mi from ESB


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## cpto

Ponnie - sounds like you're not doing badly for that distance from NYC. I'm about 22 air miles away in NJ and both channels are very susceptible to weather - even fog.


Rick


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## cpto

Bump


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## bgut1

George - a post in the HD Programming Forum confirms that ABC intends to start transmitting HD Monday Night Football with the Hall of Fame Game on August 4. Please please please tell me they are making progress with the combiner atop ESB. I know the 8/4 game is impossible if not unlikely but I hope the first regular season game is not out of the question.


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## wward

ponnie1996


I have noticed the same problem the only conclusion I can come to and I have yet to confirm this is that WCBS-DT may be broadcasting at a higher ERP than WNYW-DT. Also placement on the main antenna mast at the ESB could possibly effect recption as well.


One other thing I noticed to is during heavy rain fall WNYW-DT's signal really drops off significantly.


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## George Thompson

Ok, here is the latest. We just signed the CBS contract this morning. I think everyone else has signed too. Now it is up to the ESB lawyers to sign off on the lease agreement. That should happen soon and the combiner will be authorized for final construction. 60-90 days. Most likely November.


I don't remember if WNYW-DT is using the mast on the 84th floor parapit or the flat panel bolted to the side of a building down town but they are only running about 250W. The VHF's on ESB have to power down and use the parapit antenna at night since mast work is going on to put the analog antennas back on the mast. Later this year they will be up there too.


GT


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## wward

George


That explains it. I have noticed that after 1am on some week nights and every weekend for the past 3-4 weeks WNYW-DT would drop off the map. I heard from CBS engineering that there was some work going on up there but iI had no idea that there was mojor work going on.


Thanks for the info.


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## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *I don't remember if WNYW-DT is using the mast on the 84th floor parapit or the flat panel bolted to the side of a building down town but they are only running about 250W.*



Are you sure about this? Could you have been thinking of WPIX-DT (12) or WNET-DT (61) instead of WNYW-DT (44).


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## George Thompson

I am frantically looking for a back issue of an industry mag that showed a pix of the mast on the setback up there and said what stations they were. There were several stations mentioned by the CE when I talked to him this morning....... I may be confused. My appologies. I will set this straight.

GT


EDIT

WNET-DT is 250W and on the 81st floor setback. NYW-DT is up on the mast,(no mention of power). Article in 1/03 BE magazine. Still, during mast work stations move to alternate antennas on 81.


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## trekkerj

Any idea if WPIX is going to boost their signal or switch to UHF 33 any sooner? Their 0.125kW doesn't get as far as me very well.


So are we saying NBC and ABC should be up by November?


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## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *WNET-DT is 250W and on the 81st floor setback. NYW-DT is up on the mast,(no mention of power). Article in 1/03 BE magazine. Still, during mast work stations move to alternate antennas on 81.*



When did WNET-DT move to the Empire State Building? I was under the impression that they were temporarily on a different building near Penn Station.


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## coachgns

Maybe someone here can help me.

I live on Long Island, in an apartment with a central Antenna. As of now, it picks up the regular NYC stations well.

My TV is a HDTV plasma panel - Pioneer 4330HD. Dual NTSC tuners.

When I go through the antenna terminal, if I tune TV to any of the HD channels I get only snow.

Is there something else I need to get OTA HD?


If not, looks like I am stuck with 4 HD channels since that's all CV provides as of now.


Thank you


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## trekkerj

You need an OTA set-top box. NTSC tuners tune regular old analog stations.


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## cpto

George - thanks for your continuing updates. You're a real jewel of information for those of us in the NYC metro area.


Again, thanks for continuing to contribute your knowledge to this thread!


Rick


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## jscnyc

ok, WB is transmitting once again tg. the question is will the Mets be in in hd tonite, since the last couple of weeks i noticed no hd prg on.



john


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## ken34

I haven't read this thread for awhile. I thought somebody would have sent this by now. From what I read here and elsewhere. WNET-DT does transmit low power from their studios on I believe W33 ST. The antennas at Empire on the 81st Floor are Channel 13's back up VHF antennas which WPIX-DT is currently using to transmit low power on channel 12.


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## trekkerj

I keep trying to lock in on WPIX-DT. It's just too low power. I am in Morris County, NJ. Unfortunately, I don't have an outdoor antenna. I use the radio shack double bowtie uhf antenna. This antenna is great, it even detects the signal on ch 12, but doesn't lock in even close. I bought a simple VHF amp and hooked it up to a standard set of rabbit ear antennas. Still nothing. However, when I move the VHF antenna to a window, open the window, and stick it out of the window (north facing), the light on the STB is on more frequently, and every 2-10 seconds, I get a burst of 50% power on the signal strength meter, which then drops back to 0. Still can't lock in. Any suggestions? Is there a better indoor VHF type antenna? I think I'm stuck not getting it with my indoor setup though.


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## Ricky

Any updates on when we'll get CBS and ABC in hi-def? Is early August still reasonable?


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## John Tuohy

Of course Ricky means NBC and ABC


It is looking more like Nov










Regards


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## cpto

John - any source for the [additional] delay and what might be causing it?


Thanks.


Rick


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## John Tuohy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *John - any source for the [additional] delay and what might be causing it?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Rick*




Rick


Sorry for not being more precise I am relying on the info posted by Mr. Thomson on the previous page of this thread.


I am hoping November.


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## lightly

Did any one else have a problem?


Last night I had no problem getting reception from SW Nassau County. Even in the rain.

ie

2-1 100%

5-1 100%

5-2 100%

12-1 30%


Today

2-1 30%

5-1 0%

5-2 0%

12-1 0%


Perhaps they are working on the Broadcast antenna?


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## John Tuohy

I am getting a 94 on CBS an 88 on Fox and a whooping 55 for PIX


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## fab65

Hey all. I've been lurking and learning for a while now and haven't had much to post about. I just picked up a silver sensor yesterday, since I don't want to commit to roof top antenna just yet. I have the panny D* hd receiver. Though I haven't subscribed to the hd package yet.


I live in Oceanside (s/w nassau county LI) and tried getting CBS last night. The show that was on was going in and out on a consistent basis. Is that due more to my distance to the ESB and/or antenna, or did the weather have anything to do with it. Or a combination?


Also, I noticed that scrolling through the guide, I didn't see a 4-1 channel set up, so I manually added channels and then there were additional 2, 4 ,5, channels that I added, but there weren't any more of the -1 channels. Will that be a problem in the future, and can I get back the default setup.


So is CBS the only NYC channel/network able to broadcast HD programming? I've read so many threads, that they've started to blend as one big mess. Any input would be helpful.


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## SteveWinNJ

Fab,


Try moving the antenna around a bit while you check the antenna strength. Here in Bergen County, 20 mi from ESB, raising the antenna to the top of a speaker gives me a lock on CBS with no dropouts.


For now, CBS is the only OTA true HDTV that I can receive in Mahwah, NJ. Fox locks in also, but that is not HD.


If that fails, look into an antenna pre-amp. The HDTV Hardware section has lots of good info.


As you you can see from the previous posts, OTA in the NYC area will be getting much better very soon! NBC and ABC coming to the ESB this fall!!


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## fab65

Thanks Steve, I'll keep trying. This may sound stupid, but how do I check the antenna signal? I know how to check for the sat. signal. Is it in the same area? I guess I should check for myself before asking these questions. BTW, I really like ur hotels.


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## SteveWinNJ

Fab,


I don't have a Hughes HDTV receiver, but the antenna strength/adjustment screen should be under "system test" or "setup". You should be able to see the signal strength as you adjust the antenna. See the post by "Lightly" a few prior to this one, that should give you an idea of your potential signal strengths...your mileage may vary.


Also, WPIX (12-1) is broadcasting at low power, but you'll need an antenna that covers VHF for that, your antenna is UHF only.


Thanks to cpto for keeping this thread for NYC area OTA ...we should be seeing more activity in this thread as we head towards fall!


(thanks for the thoughts about "my" hotels!...I only wish it were me! )


----------



## cpto

There have been a lot of people in the NJ area (including me) that have more problems with CBS than FOX in inclement weather.


I know that CBS is at a higher frequency than fox (don't know about the effective radiated power though), but does anyone know what the net effect is? I also have the same problem with Philadelphia stations - the lower channels come through better than the higher ones.


I saw a map on CBS a couple of years ago that showed the estimated coverage area for DT-56. Is there any ready source for the other NY channels and the returning ones?


Thanks.


Rick


----------



## cpto

A couple of years ago Stark electronics was selling a CM parabolic 8-foot antenna for fringe reception. I was hoping that the gain might help make up for rain / fog / snow fade from WCBS but the antenna doesn't appear to be available any more.


Does any one have experience with this antenna, know where it might be found, or why it wouldn't help reception?


Thanks.


Rick


----------



## cpto

I received this very nice and thorough response from nitewatchman and am posting it here for you to enjoy. It's not too often we here get such a thorough response to a question.


Rick


Hello,


Saw your post asking about the parabolic UHF Dish antenna, and thought I'd reply via PM, as I'm not in your area -- Channel Master used to make these in I believe 6' and 7' diameter versions, but they have been discontinued for quite a while. Certianly, a fine antenna(Considered the best UHF antenna "ever" by some), but, due to it's size and shape, it also requires a lot of "mounting support" due to wind/ice loading. There's a nice pic of one on a 85' tower in the pics near bottom of this page(7' Channel master dish photo -- You'll probably need to right click and choose "show picture" to see the pic):

http://www.oldtvguides.com/DXPhotos/ 


Concerning WCBS-DT 56, along the lines of what you mentioned on the thread, it is certianly the case that becasue of the shorter wavelength's involved, much more power is necessary for a station operating on Hi-UHF channels than is the case on lower frequenices in order to cover the same area, and also, these high frequencies are also more "sensitive" "signal propagation wise" to terrain and other "environmental factors" ...


For example, RF absorbtion by leaves would be much more of a problem on 56 than on lower UHF channels or, even moreso for the much longer wavelengths of VHF. Rain and wind can also be a factor on these high frequencies --- Now, these "environmental factors" aren't really a BIG issue(although terrain/building blockage of signal is a big issue), but if you're dealing with a weak signal coming from your antenna to begin with, a little issue can appear like a big issue. (keep in mind, in nearly all cases, the "signal meters" on our receivers don't measure "signal strength" , it's a sort of "signal quality" meter, which is implemented on the "digital datastream" "side" of the receiver, not the "RF Signal" portion of the receiver ... For this reason, a actual, fairly weak signal, just over the "threshold" needed for good DTV reception can produce High readings on our receiver's meters.


It's also the case that some receving antennas don't do as good of a job on the higher UHF channels. VHF/UHF combo antennas, typcially don't do well on Hi-UHF, for example, although I have had good luck with hi-UHF local DT's here with the RS VU210 antenna, a a LARGE VHF/UHF Combo - which has also been discontinued. Also, Feedline incurs more signal loss the higher the frequency.


Really though, more "reasonably sized", and conventional UHF antennas such as the CM4248 Yagi, CM4228 Bowtie, and some of the European hi-gain antennas from Blake, Televes and Triax are pretty close to the performance wise to the "big dish", and one of these, outside up nice and high with a hi-gain/low noise preamp such as the CM7777 would come very close, if not exceeding the "Big dish's" performance.


Follows is info WCBS-DT's technical parameters from FCC CDBS database, concerning their currently licensed facilities. :


I pulled up WCBS-DT's current Technical paramenters, and given their TX antenna height on ESB(1345FT Above Sea Level), Non-directional antenna, and 349KW ERP power level for their licensed facility(According to FCC data, this is what they should be operating with unless their having Temporary technical problems that don't require issuance of a STA by FCC, or, to meet RF exposure regulations if anyone working on the ESB antennas). You might want to check with them to make sure, on the power, though. One of their Engineer's did start/post a thread recently in local AVS area, asking for reception reports.


If this is the power/antenna height they are operating with however, I'd think they should do a decent job getting out to as far away as around 50 Miles or so, although, the "fringe area guy" at 50 Miles+ from the ESB would likely want a very good antenna setup for UHF, as high as possible, with no terrain/signal blockage issues invloved....


As a bit of a comparision, In our area, for instance, we have a DT on 58 running 290KW ERP, which is being received well on a attic antenna from almost 60 miles distant! Their antenna height, while only about 1000 feet above average terrain, is over 2000FT above sea level.(Most of the terrain in this area, however, is between 600-1100 Feet above sea level).



WCBS-TV NY NEW YORK USA (Digital)


Licensee: CBS BROADCASTING INC.

Service Designation: DT "Full Service" TV Station or Application (digital)


Channel 56 (722-728 MHz) Licensed

File No.: BLCDT -19981026KG Facility ID No: 9610

CDBS Application ID No.: 276124


Antenna Structure Registration Number (ASRN): 1007048



40 ° 44' 54.00" Latitude Zone: 1

73 ° 59' 10.00" Longitude (NAD27) Frequency Offset: None

Polarization: Horizontally Polarized (H)

Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 349. kW ERP

Ant. Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT): 397.0 meters HAAT

Ant. Radiation Center Above Mean Sea Level: 410.0 meters RCAMSL

Ant. Radiation Center Above Ground Level: 395. meters RCAGL


Not directional

Not in a Border Zone


-----------------------------------


Anyhow, hope some of this helps, I enjoy looking at the NYC OTA thread, and I hope NYC can get the OTA situation back to "normal" as soon as possible. I know the NYC broadcasters are doing the best they can, but I can't help but think how much different things might be if we were in the 1960's or 70's, before cableTV ... Still, though, I may have missed it, but I'm surprised I haven't seen a Major News story concerning the loss of the WTC OTA transmitters.


Anyhow, take it easy,


Jeff in Middletown, Ohio


----------



## dapope

I have a cm4228, cm 7777 and rotor, just hooked everything up last night, im , located in sheepshead bay, brooklyn, about 12 miles from the esb. Eventhough the 4228 is a uhf only antenna, i still pick up all the vhf channels, the upper channels are the strongest. What also is very strange, just about any where i have the 4228 pointed, it will lock on my local dt channels, Isnt that amazingly odd ? Im running hd200, and dtc 100, and both are reacting the same, getting vhf, and, no matter where the antenna is pointed, it locks on 2.1,5.1,5.2,11.1,11.2,12.1,75.1,75.2,40.1 and 53







.Has any1 else experienced anything like this?The antenna is mounted on a one family house on a 10 foot pole.

Stan


----------



## JoeCraw

Stan,


11.1, 11.2, 12.1, 12.2, 75.1, 75.2 are all the same channel (WPIX).

Out in Plainview (with no rotor) I get all of the WPIXs, 2.1(CBS), 5.1(FOX), 5.2(UPN-low quality broadcast), 22.1 (WLIW-HD), 22.2 (WLIW-SD).


You must be so close to the signals, you don't need to point the antenna.


Joe


----------



## dapope

Seems that way Joe, i was kinda of shocked at first. I have minor problems with my rotor, as it seems to lock after a few turns clockwise, it, will always turn counter clockwise tho, major problem is even though it is not moving , the display is showing it moving to new setting, which throws the whole dam rotor off, and, i have no idea where its pointed at. Only thing that fixs it, is i go to my 1 preset for nyc[ highest signal] and do a synch, and that corrects the problem for a short period.I have to go back on the roof and make sure everything is properly alighned, im using a 5 foot pole for the dish, which is sitting on a 10 ' pole for the main mount.Also USING TB 105 SUPPORT BEARING, WHICH, may be out of whack.Any1 using a 4228 with a 5 ' pole and no tb 105 ?

Stan


----------



## muadib




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JoeCraw_
> *Stan,
> 
> 
> 11.1, 11.2, 12.1, 12.2, 75.1, 75.2 are all the same channel (WPIX).
> 
> Out in Plainview (with no rotor) I get all of the WPIXs, 2.1(CBS), 5.1(FOX), 5.2(UPN-low quality broadcast), 22.1 (WLIW-HD), 22.2 (WLIW-SD).
> 
> 
> You must be so close to the signals, you don't need to point the antenna.
> 
> 
> Joe*



Do all of these broadcast from the ESB? I'm able to get CBS, FOX, and UPN,

but none of the others.


----------



## dapope

yes they do, but not at full power yet

Stan


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dapope_
> *yes they do, but not at full power yet
> *



Correct, except for WLIW, which is from Long Island.


----------



## jscnyc

I no longer receive wpix's 75.01 & 02, are they still broadcasting these? I do receive wb's 11.01 & .02 also 12.01. a comment about fox, I thought there bernie mack show and there new show wanda looked really good



john


----------



## dapope

yes John, they're still on

Stan


----------



## Mattdoc

If I could stick my head out the window, and turn sideways, I would see the ESB unobstructed, as I live 4 block and 5 avenues away. However, the window is ceiling to floor and does not open. Would an indoor antennae be sufficient to pull in HD, or since I am at an angle will my own apartment wall block me.

I have time warner cable now, but since I cannot record HD from that, I am hoping to build an HTPC, if that would work better. But if I cannot use an indoor antenae, I would need to wait for another option. Thanks for any help.

---Matt


----------



## John Mason

Some in Manhattan report picking up ESB stations via reflections from other buildings. I can with very careful positioning of a Silver Sensor antenna (inches matter), pointing it about 70 degrees northward from the ESB. Image stability isn't the best (wouldn't want to record), but each site is unique. As more OTA's begin this fall, 8-VSB for recording may improve at some locations. A building master UHF/VHF antenna could help. Of course, about that time TWC may roll out HD-PVR converters, too. -- John


----------



## pepijn

Finally signed up after years of lurking.


Since our cable service is very rudimentary and lacking features (any other NuVisions subscribers out there?) I went out and got me a Samsung T151 from J&R after they agreed to give me a break on the price. Since then I've been trying with very little success to get some DTV action going.







We're all the way on the west side at around 70th on the 23rd floor with a W/NW view of the river and the GWB as well as an E/SE view of Central Park and downtown, and so far the two RS antenna's I've tried have only been able to pick up WCBS-DT on 56, with a lot of tweaking and wishing and praying. The models I've tried with were the 15-1838 (has a fine tuning dial on it, very frustrating to work with) and the 15-1880; both have preamps although the latter seems to have a higher gain. When checking signal strength it is clear how jumpy the reception is, going back and forth between 6-7 and 0, apparently also influenced by where I am in relation to the antenna.










The home theater and receiver are located on the west side of the apartment, with the rest of the building (and many other high rises as well) between the antenna and ESB. Since I am pretty sure there is no central antenna system in this building it seems to me that I am stuck with trying to get some sort of indoor antenna to work. Has anyone on the UWS had any luck at all getting anything more than WCBS-DT to come in, or should I just give up right now and return all this stuff to the store? I really want my HDTV, especially considering the abysmal quality I get with the regular TV offering from our current (and only) cable service. Any opinions, tips or testimonials from fellow-UWS'ers would be immensely appreciated!


Thanks for listening.


-P-


P.S.: Interestingly enough, it seems that NuVisions is relaying some HDTV programming over their cable system, which the T151 is actually able to pick up when set to "IRC" mode in the channel scan menu option. The signal is not great, between 4 and 5 bars, but it has no dropouts and stays steady at that level. This way I can get WCBS (2-1), WNYW (5-1, 5-2) and WLIW (22-1, 22-2) but I would rather try with an antenna and be able to try for the other available stations.


----------



## Mattdoc

Thanks John.

Sadly my building discontinued maintaining the wiring from the roof antenae, as most everyone in the building has cable TV. I am hoping that they may re-use it, but from what I hear its the wiring in the walls that somehow went bad. I will likely get an indoor antenae soon, but will wait to see when ABC/NBC broadcast OTA, or if Time Warner will be forthcoming with an HD PVR.


----------



## John Mason

pepijn,

Welcome to the forums. You might enter your location at antennaweb.org and see what NJ stations are nearby. If your windows don't block too much UHF/VHF there are various station options.


Yes, my Silver Sensor reception varies when I'm near it, and I once tinkered with a magazine-size chunk of aluminum foil as a reflection blocker. Helps at times. -- John


----------



## jscnyc

if i remember pre-season football was in hd on cbs last year. would anyone know why it isn't today.



john


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *if i remember pre-season football was in hd on cbs last year.*



I believe that is incorrect. I do not recall CBS ever doing a pre season game in HD.


----------



## jscnyc

you are right.thnx


john


----------



## John Tillman

I've been in a dead zone lately out in Northport. CBS has constant dropouts. I can't even pull WLIW-22 (do they broadcast in a 360 degree direction?). PBS out of Bridgeport drops in/out all the time. ABC-10 NH is well, the same.


As far as NYC, I presume it is related to the work going on? I use Dish, thinking about checking them out for CBS. Been dying a slow death since 9/11 round' here.


----------



## Paperboy2003

I grew up in E.Northport....nice area.


I don't mean to bash, but many people died a 'quick' death on 9/11 and to ***** about it b/c of tv reception seems a bit misguided.


----------



## John Tillman




> Quote:
> I don't mean to bash, but many people died a 'quick' death on 9/11 and to ***** about it b/c of tv reception seems a bit misguided.



Yea, I hear ya. Not talkin' about dead people though. Talkin' about dead/dying air waves.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ricky_
> *Any updates on when we'll get NBC and ABC in hi-def? Is early August still reasonable?*



I am now hearing January.


----------



## Ken Ross

This is really getting more than a bit absurd.


----------



## trekkerj

Who are you hearing this from?


----------



## bgut1




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I am now hearing January.*



Oh come on!!! What happened to November? This has got to be a joke. George - If you are out there, is there any truth to this statement?


----------



## kcn823

antennaweb.org is now saying Dec 31st for ABC and NBC. this sucks!


----------



## cpto

Yeah, it sucks. If two of the majors are taking their time broadcasting digitally to the #1 metro area it appears they'll be dragging their feet in the future over giving up their analog stations.


1. People in Metro NY didn't buy digital sets because our transmitter was down for 2+ years.


2. Therefore, we need two additional years to allow the market to catch up to the rest of the country.


Hard to believe that the ESB - the new transmitter site - was built in only a year. Were these network clowns in charge they'd only be up to the 30th floor today.


Rick


----------



## Ken Ross

Rick, funny but true!


----------



## John Tuohy

Anyone getting gray bars on CBS. I thought it might be my STB but I tried another and still get gray bars. Argggg!


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Tuohy_
> *Anyone getting gray bars on CBS.*



Yes, I am also getting the gray bars. I am also getting the football game from the CBS Seattle station by way of Canadian satellite. There are no grays bars on it so WCBS is adding the gray bars.


----------



## MicroChip




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Tuohy_
> *Anyone getting gray bars on CBS. I thought it might be my STB but I tried another and still get gray bars. Argggg!*




Yeah, I'm getting them too, I had hoped tonights game was in HD.


Boy I sure wish GT would give us an update, I can't believe everything's pushed to the end of the year...


MC


----------



## Blue Rain

How recent is this?



About HDTV on WABC & ABC45


WABC-TV has been working to restore full-power DTV service to the tri-state area to replace those facilities lost at the World Trade Center.

Presently, the only location suitable for broadcasting this service is the Empire State Building. Preparations at this location include the installation of new electrical and antenna systems and the relocation of existing tenants to make space for new broadcast equipment.


We expect this work to be completed and to resume operations on WABC-DT before the end of this summer.



Here 


Blue


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *Yes, I am also getting the gray bars. I am also getting the football game from the CBS Seattle station by way of Canadian satellite. There are no grays bars on it so WCBS is adding the gray bars.*



Me too...


Although, I thought gray bars were better as the reduced the chance for burn in on RP and Plasma sets?


----------



## gmyron

I thought maybe they had complaints (or an attempted law suit) from someone who watched a lot of CBS and got burn-in. Since you cannot stop the bars from appearing, they could be considered responsible.


----------



## wward

Blue Rain / others


I have posted this once or twice before on other threads and I think at least once on this thread and I will say it again due to negotiations with the lease holder of the Empire State Building, power upgrades and other issues with the combiner next year most probably in the 1st quarter is when the other broadcasters will be up digitally. And not before that.


There may be limited testing before that but full time broadcasting will not happen this year.


----------



## Paperboy2003

Thanks WWard...while that news is annoying and frustrating, it has to be expected. The people who hold the space needed at the ESB have the broadcasters by the short hairs and once the 'lease' aspects of it are resolved there are the technical issues.


Perhaps things will be up in time for MNF 2004 kickoff or at least the Summer Olympics next year. It won't surprise me when that first quarter projection turns into Summer 2004....it just follows the pattern.


Doug


----------



## CJArciola III

No matter where the blame appropriately belongs, it still is unacceptable that 2 years later they are still "negotiating."


----------



## John Tuohy

The Gray bars on CBS are present on some commercials but not all very odd


Mr Thompson


Your input is appreciated. Is there any hope of getting it in 2003 ?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Tuohy_
> *The Gray bars on CBS are present on some commercials but not all very odd
> 
> *



The commercials with the black bars are CBS Network commercials. The commercials with the gray bars are WCBS local New York City only commercials.


----------



## John Tuohy

Ok maybe not so odd


Thanks (again)


----------



## George Thompson

OK, OK, OK.....

I'm on vacation. I'll ask when I get back after Labor Day. The last I heard was that the agreement was signed and approved for the guys in Maine to finish up the combiner. WNBC chief was expecting November to be on-air time. Nothing new to report.

Wait till I get back.....

George


----------



## RAVEN56706

oh no........ titan tv has just changed the dates of ABC and NBC DT....


ABC 45 WABC-DT Dec 31 2003

NBC 28 WNBC-DT Dec 31 2003


Oh well, nothing to look forward to this weekend.


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RAVEN56706_
> *oh no........ titan tv has just changed the dates of ABC and NBC DT....
> 
> 
> ABC 45 WABC-DT Dec 31 2003
> 
> NBC 28 WNBC-DT Dec 31 2003
> 
> 
> Oh well, nothing to look forward to this weekend.*



I believe these are just the filing dates. The permits are good for six months at a time. Titan or AntennaWeb don't actually know what the networks are up to.


----------



## RAVEN56706

boy this stinks.......


----------



## John Tuohy

Raven56706


By George there is still hope....


----------



## Paperboy2003

The following is from the CBS website.....


Note To Viewers About Overnight Reception: The Empire State Building has recently undertaken a massive project to upgrade and strengthen the broadcast tower that sits on top of the building. This project is a direct result of the 9-11 incident where all broadcasters lost their main broadcast tower on top of the world Trade Center and were forced to relocate to the Empire State Building.


In order to accommodate the antennas for every station as well as adding antennas & facilities for HDTV broadcasting, it is necessary for the tower to be reconfigured and strengthened. Safety concerns mandate that all broadcasters cease broadcasting from the tower, while workers are present, and switch to alternate lower power facilities. In an effort to minimize the disruption to the viewing public, all work is scheduled during the overnight period from approx. 12:30 AM to 4:45 AM Monday through Saturday. The projected completion date is mid September.


During these overnight periods WCBS operates from a lower power back-up transmitter. Some off-air viewers may not be able to receive the signal from this back-up site. Cable & Satellite reception is not affected.


We are sorry for any inconvenience this may case



Perhaps a mid Sept date means that its possible to get the other aspects completed before the end of the year...Time will tell....I certainly don't want to get ahead of things though....


Doug


----------



## cpto

... but it's nice to see that _something_ is happening!


----------



## samoth

Anyone watching the US Open in HD???? It looks great!!!!!!


----------



## jscnyc

ya mon, damn the chicks look good in hd ;>


enjoy, john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by samoth_
> *Anyone watching the US Open in HD???? It looks great!!!!!!*


----------



## MicroChip




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *OK, OK, OK.....
> 
> I'm on vacation. I'll ask when I get back after Labor Day. The last I heard was that the agreement was signed and approved for the guys in Maine to finish up the combiner. WNBC chief was expecting November to be on-air time. Nothing new to report.
> 
> Wait till I get back.....
> 
> George*



Any luck George?


Thanks!

MC


----------



## JohnnyI1222

I can't understand why WABC-DT is not on the air when the Spanish station 40-1 is on. Don't they use the same antenna?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JohnnyI1222_
> *I can't understand why WABC-DT is not on the air when the Spanish station 40-1 is on. Don't they use the same antenna?*



They will not use the same antenna.


----------



## trekkerj

 www.abc45online.com has been updated. It now says they expect to be broadcasting by early November.


----------



## Paperboy2003

That's great news, and I would hope that they wouldn't put that there unless early November really means late October. Everyone is so used to these dates being pushed back, one would hope that they would start to be conservative instead of aggressive by now.


Doug


----------



## George Thompson

Well, I haven't seen the CE yet this week but the local maintenance guys tell me that demolition started a few weeks ago on 77? for new transmitter room for WNBC. They can retune the already installed Telemondo transmitter if need be to get on the air when the combiner in installed. The microwave room where the combiner will be installed is untouched as of now.

Interesting that a bar buddy of mine is a property manager for the same group that owns/manages ESB. He mentioned that RF issues were voiced by several tenants and may have held up some of the progress. The guys at WNBC said that there was a sperm bank next door to the new transmitter room........ Which was a doctors office that was still occupied by staff and patients when the CE went to visit the space after signing the lease.

Anyway, that is all that I know for now.

GT


----------



## RAVEN56706

geez.... all that stands between me and nbchd is sperm...... Never thought i would say that ever in my lifetime.


----------



## MicroChip

I am very disappointed that it looks like between OTA and Cablevision, I am not going to get to see Brittany Spears or the Jets in HD tonight.


MC


----------



## jscnyc

i 2nd that, but think positivly, we always have analog (blah im gonna vomit)


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MicroChip_
> *I am very disappointed that it looks like between OTA and Cablevision, I am not going to get to see Brittany Spears or the Jets in HD tonight.
> 
> 
> MC*


----------



## jrschmidt




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Interesting that a bar buddy of mine is a property manager for the same group that owns/manages ESB.
> 
> GT*



Hey george,


where do drink? I'll stop by and buy you cold one!










We certainly owe you at least that for all of your insight and information.


Thanks for everything,


John


----------



## George Thompson

Thanks John,

I may be adding a little bit too much insight...lol. I really do have to watch what I say since EVERYONE reads this forum..ROTFLMAO. (Two calls today).

Those on air dates are towards the end of the year and not cast in stone. Don't read more into that than just an estimate of when everything will be ready. Some more bits of trivia when the xmitters are fired up.

Anyway, if anyone hangs around midtown after work they are more than welcome to down a few with me. My regular hangouts are in White Plains pubs on Old Post Road and Mammarinak (sp) ave. (Yahoo Westchester Nightlife Group)

GT


----------



## fourthstooge

I sometimes find myself at the Great American Pub (GAP) on the Post Rd. or that big one (forgot the name) on Mamaroneck Ave. off Post Rd. with the pool table off in a tight corner and all the rare beers. Ever hang at one of those? If so, what's your usual day(s) and time(s)?


----------



## Bogney Baux

There seems to be somthing wrong with the PSIP on WCBS-DT. My Dish 6000 stopped receiving them. I had to do a rescan but it does not remap to channel 2. It stays at 56. I then did a rescan on my Hipix computer and it also stays at 56 instead of remapping to channel 2.1.


----------



## George Thompson

Ha ah,

We generally hang at either Kelly's or The Thursty Turtle on Thursdays at about 8pm and leave when the college kids show up. As regulars we have a free happy hour then..... Black Bear? is the other on Mamaroneck ave. (All the same owner).

GT


----------



## wward

Bogney Baux


Yep I noticed the same thing on my F38310


----------



## samoth

My samsung sir-t151 does the same. USOpen still looks great!!!


----------



## cpto

George - I recall reading that the ESB transmitters for ABC and NBC are temporary until a new tower can be erected (Yeah! Sure! When?)










But I'm wondering what the transmission power will be. Will ABC and NBC be using reduced power at this "temporary" location? Also wondering what power UPN and WB will be. Hope they will reach 22 miles into NJ.


Thanks.


Rick


----------



## trekkerj

 www.abc45online.com


----------



## jscnyc

will the game on cbs be hd today?


john


----------



## wward

Looks like its not on WCBS-DT


----------



## jscnyc

afraid so, giants ota fox edtv distance shots look awful, close-ups better, but this edtv stuff is crap.


john


----------



## jscnyc

omg, game just went hd on cbs, did they fall asleep again or is this a mistake??


john


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *George - I recall reading that the ESB transmitters for ABC and NBC are temporary until a new tower can be erected (Yeah! Sure! When?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm wondering what the transmission power will be. Will ABC and NBC be using reduced power at this "temporary" location? Also wondering what power UPN and WB will be. Hope they will reach 22 miles into NJ.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Rick*



Well, you spoiled one of my bits of trivia. The stations on ESB will not be on full power. First, they would melt the antenna. Second they would be stuck with that power (full) and not on the World Trade center replacement. I think I heard 180KW. Something about STA authorization. I didnt catch it all.

Yes, ESB is temporary and probably a standby until WTC is rebuilt.

GT


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Ha ah,
> 
> We generally hang at either Kelly's or The Thursty Turtle on Thursdays at about 8pm and leave when the college kids show up. As regulars we have a free happy hour then..... Black Bear? is the other on Mamaroneck ave. (All the same owner).
> 
> GT*



Black Bear, yes, I think that's it. Thursdays are kinda tough, but I'll keep it in mind. Meanwhile, what do you think the chances are that I'll be able to pull in the WABC-DT45 signal in Port Chester with an RCA UHF-VHF indoor amplified antenna considering that I usually have no problem getting WCBS-DT56 and WNYW-DT44?


Thanks, George.


----------



## cpto

Thanks George. I hope they _do_ have enough power to reach out here in the Morristown area, otherwise I'll be stuck in the position of being just a little too far from Philadelphia (except for CBS) and too far from NYC (except for CBS and FOX)!










Rick


----------



## Paperboy2003

CPTO, I'm in Randolph and now you've got me curious....you can pull CBS from Philly?! What type of antenna do you have and do you amplify it? Also what channel is Philly CBS?


Thanks Rick,


Doug


----------



## trekkerj

I would think 180kW would be no problem for Morristown. CBS is at 394, and Fox is much less (I wish 100000watts.com wasn't a pay site now), but not too far from 180 as well, and I have no problem with that in the same area either. The whole point, as it says on abc45online.com, is to restore reliable service to the entire area, otherwise they'd be on a pole somewhere with a 10 mile broadcasting radius.


----------



## chingko

in hanover, can pick up abc 64 and cbs 26 from philly and pbs 43 from trenton using CM 4221 in attic and CM 7775 preamp.


----------



## Paperboy2003

I was thinking of getting the cm7777 preamp for my outdoor Terk antenna. Think that would do the trick? Also, for that assortment I assume you have a rotor?


thanks!


Doug


----------



## chingko

Doug,

it's worth a try with the preamp. also, no rotor in my case. it's in the attic so i just go up there and repoint it towards philly. it's normally pointed towards ny. btw, terks get a bad rap here. good luck.


----------



## Paperboy2003

OK....this is a little wacky but please tell me if this will work. I currently have a terk on my roof. What if I were to get a cm indoor model and hook that up as well. Put both lines from the antennae into an a/b switch and then add a preamp after the a/b into my hd200. I could point one towards NYC and the other (higher gain model) towards philly or somewhere else. Would this work??? Am I brilliant or just overly ambitious and unaware of what the technology will do?!


Any help would be great....thanks!


Doug


----------



## rross111

FYI, I live in Colts Neck, NJ which is central Monmouth County. I've recently installed a CM4228, w/ a CM7775 pre-amp, CM7720 Broadband Amp, and a 9521A Rotor. I'm able to pull in NY CBS (56) and Fox (44) consistently. It's disappointing that NY ABC and NBC are down. I'm also able to consistently pull in Philly CBS (26) and ABC(64).


----------



## trekkerj

George, when the combiner is completed, do you know if it's just for ABC/NBC? Will WB11 go back to high(er) power on ch 33? I'm on the fringe and would be hopeful of pulling in WPIX also. Cablevision has done a nice job of giving me HD channels that are already broadcasting that I've been getting OTA for months, and I'm not hopeful of getting ABC NBC or WB via them. Thanks for the info.


----------



## George Thompson

The combiner/antenna is for all the stations in the consortium. I don't think that any station will be at full legal power since as I mentioned before the combiner/antenna will not be able to handle it. But they should be able to cover 80/90 percent of their coverage area. Full power will be achieved with the WTC replacement.

ESB stations should be up and running before the end of the year.

GT


----------



## cpto

Thanks George. I'm not sure that bodes well for my area though, since CBS already disappears in light rain and Philadelphia stations are really marginal.


In a way I'm missing the showy fuzzy pictures of NTSC - even if the picture wasn't great at least you could often watch it in marginal conditions without getting pixelization, freeze, or "no signal."










Rick


----------



## trekkerj

I'm almost 10 miles west of you and have no trouble with CBS. What type of antenna do you use? If it's really bad weather, I have problems, but so does everyone. Repositioning my antenna and connecting a pre-amp helps. You're well within the radius to be able to receive CBS and the other stations when they come online. I'm using a radio shack indoor antenna, btw.


----------



## cpto

Trekkerj - I have the same setup as rross111, but my antenna is on the roof and has a rotor. I think part of the problem is that I am being blocked by the house next door and across the street. Perhaps raising the antenna 5 or 10 feet would help.


Still, CBS always breaks up before FOX. I don't know if that has to do more with the antenna broadcast pattern or with the fact that WCBS is at a higher frequency, which - I think - is more susceptible to interference by moisture in the air.


Rick


----------



## MLM

Anyone else have trouble with WPIX on Thursday evening? Usually comes in clear as a bell, but it was either "no signal" or very broken up all evening. All other NYC signals were fine.


Also, does anyone know if any of the OTA stations broadcast test signals at any time?


----------



## cpto

I think George said that they're not to that point yet. (George - please correct me if I'm wrong.)


I think we'll read it here first when the local NYC DT stations start testing. If we're lucky, they'll monitor us to get feedback on how well it's working.


Rick


----------



## Infominister

Was WCBS-DT (Channel 56) not transmitting on Thursday? I just repositioned my Winegard GS200A and suddenly I'm getting no signal on WCBS-DT (56). I live in northern Westchester, about 42 miles from Empire State Building transmitter. This is strange because WNYW-DT (44) and its linked UPN counterpart are coming in fairly strong. Is the WCBS transmitter down, or something? When I lived about 10 miles south of here, I always got WCBS strongest.


----------



## John Tillman




> Quote:
> suddenly I'm getting no signal on WCBS-DT (56)



I'm about 38 miles east of ESB and have no picture even though it hits 90 on my meter. I've switched over to CBS-HD off Dish 61.5.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone know if any of the OTA stations broadcast test signals at any time? [/b]



Perhaps I wasn't sufficiently clear. I was asking if any of the current OTA stations transmit a test pattern that we can use for adjusting our TVs


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Was WCBS-DT (Channel 56) not transmitting on Thursday? I just repositioned my Winegard GS200A and suddenly I'm getting no signal on WCBS-DT (56). I live in northern Westchester, about 42 miles from Empire State Building transmitter. This is strange because WNYW-DT (44) and its linked UPN counterpart are coming in fairly strong. Is the WCBS transmitter down, or something? When I lived about 10 miles south of here, I always got WCBS strongest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



On Thursday I got WCBS very clearly as usual and, for the first time, WPIX was broken up. Signal strength was down on both though. The other stations came in as usual, but I didn't look at the meter. I'm in Bayside.


----------



## cpto

WCBS came in fine for me Thursday night. I wonder if they're having PSIP problems again... Did you re-scan for Channel 56?


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *WCBS came in fine for me Thursday night. I wonder if they're having PSIP problems again... Did you re-scan for Channel 56?*



Yes, but I'm getting too weak of a signal to lock. Again, it's strange because I'm getting the Fox and UPN stations with adequate signal strength to lock. Before, WCBS was significantly stronger than both.


----------



## fourthstooge

I was getting WCBS-DT56 perfectly until about 9pm when it started breaking up and dropping out pretty frequently for no apparent reason.


----------



## Infominister

My problem started as soon as I finished setting up the antenna, which was about 7:00 p.m.


----------



## cgardias

I live in Weschester too, Ossining to be exact which puts me aprox 55miles from the ESB. (as the crow flies) My signal strength on CBS has dropped dramatically from 75 to 35. Still getting decent signal strength on FOX and UPN (aprox 60). Is CBS doing any maintenance to their transmitter, have they reduced their kwatts for some reason?


Anyone in the know on this subject?


----------



## adh100

Guys, please keep in mind that there is some maintainence going on at the Empire State Building, I think until November-December of this year. They are in the process of getting ABC hd and NBC hd ready to broadcast later this year from the Empire State Building. So they will be daily interruptions on a nightly basis until that work is complete. I think the work was suppose to begin around midnight on a daily basis.


----------



## cgardias

I'm experiencing this during prime time.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cgardias_
> *I live in Weschester too, Ossining to be exact which puts me aprox 55miles from the ESB. (as the crow flies) My signal strength on CBS has dropped dramatically from 75 to 35. Still getting decent signal strength on FOX and UPN (aprox 60). Is CBS doing any maintenance to their transmitter, have they reduced their kwatts for some reason?
> 
> 
> Anyone in the know on this subject?*



I just moved from Ossining, which is really only about 32 miles from the ESB as the crow flies, and where I always got over 90 signal strength on WCBS-DT Ch. 56. Now, about 10 miles further north using the same antenna, the FOX and UPN stations are at around 60 (sufficient to lock), but no more than a blip of yellow on WCBS.


I spoke to someone in Master Control at WCBS and he told me that they're at full strength and only go down between 12:38 a.m. and 4:30 a.m. every night.


Something strange is happening here.


----------



## cgardias

Bummer, what could be happening?

Isn't fox and upn transmitting from the ESB too? They don't seem to be experiencing any problems.


I wonder what other factors could be contributing to this reduction in CBS' signal strength? It certainly can't be the weather since that would effect all 3 channels.


----------



## trekkerj

what time?


----------



## cgardias

I only really check during Prime time, since thats really the only time any HD programming is on.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cgardias_
> *I only really check during Prime time, since thats really the only time any HD programming is on.*



It's not just HDTV programming that can't be received. It's anything coming off Channel 56 any time of day.


----------



## cgardias

Absolutely!

I was just trying to explain when I check signal strengths.


----------



## Paperboy2003

I blame it all on the Aliens


jk


----------



## cgardias

Well that explains it.


----------



## vga4life

Well, I can verify that some extensive work on the ESB's tower is has been underway for at least the past month or so - when the weather is good I can see welding going on up there! I'd been wondering why they had been leaving their lights on past midnight until I saw the flashes up the mast.


----------



## cgardias

Thanks for the info.


----------



## jrq16

I'm having the same problem. I've always had a strong signal for CBS until friday night. At least now i know the problem is not on my end.


John


----------



## Bob Hawley

Can anyone confirm that the new Freedom Tower will be used to transmit digital TV? At the very beginning, when the design was quite different, I read that one of the proposed towers would have state of the art transmission capability. But I haven't read anything about OTA transmission from the Freedom Tower. I'm pretty sure that the New Jersey tower that was talked about for awhile is not going forward. And apparently we're only going to get low power transmission from the ESB when that work is done, which suggests that it's only a temporary solution until something else, maybe the Freedom Tower, gets built. Anyone have any hard, detailed information?


----------



## John Mason

FYI, if you've never viewed it: There's one source of OTA 1080i HDTV during the day, the soap "The Young and the Restless" (12:30-1:30 pm).


Not a regular, but I sometime use it to A-B compare with WCBS-DT delivered via cable. CBS's HD Y&R is unusual because it appears to be the only episodic drama taped in 1080/60i, the same recording used for NBC's Leno, much of PBS's HD, HDNet, etc. Other taped shows use 1080/24p with 2:3 pulldown to create broadcast HD's 1080/60i requirement (or 720/60p with a different pulldown).


While Y&R appears to be moderately filtered, compared to those other 1080/60i sources, I've found A-Bing the fine tweed or similar patterns in actor's clothes is useful. (Two of my cable converters, the SA2000HD and SA3100HD, had/have a faint fog over images that spoils faint low-contrast details such as narrow colored pinstripes in a white shirt. Hopefully, TWC's supposed introduction of the new 8000HD HDTV recorder/converter before 2004 will finally cure the 'fog' problem. -- John


----------



## cgardias

In the last couple of days I noticed that CBS' signal has increased slightly but still not as strong as it used to be.

Anyone else notice this?


----------



## Infominister

I'm still getting nothing. I did confirm with someone in WCBS Master Control that there have been some power reductions during the day this week, but that still doesn't explain why I haven't gotten a strong enough signal for reception since last week. Unless, of course, my antenna at the new house was put in a "cold zone" for that station.


----------



## jscnyc

I am watching the mets on msg hd, can you tell me if this is 1080/60i or 24p. to my eye it looks 60i. thanks


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *FYI, if you've never viewed it: There's one source of OTA 1080i HDTV during the day, the soap "The Young and the Restless" (12:30-1:30 pm).
> 
> 
> Not a regular, but I sometime use it to A-B compare with WCBS-DT delivered via cable. CBS's HD Y&R is unusual because it appears to be the only episodic drama taped in 1080/60i, the same recording used for NBC's Leno, much of PBS's HD, HDNet, etc. Other taped shows use 1080/24p with 2:3 pulldown to create broadcast HD's 1080/60i requirement (or 720/60p with a different pulldown).
> 
> 
> While Y&R appears to be moderately filtered, compared to those other 1080/60i sources, I've found A-Bing the fine tweed or similar patterns in actor's clothes is useful. (Two of my cable converters, the SA2000HD and SA3100HD, had/have a faint fog over images that spoils faint low-contrast details such as narrow colored pinstripes in a white shirt. Hopefully, TWC's supposed introduction of the new 8000HD HDTV recorder/converter before 2004 will finally cure the 'fog' problem. -- John*


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *I am watching the mets on msg hd, can you tell me if this is 1080/60i or 24p. to my eye it looks 60i. thanks
> 
> 
> john*



1080/60i


----------



## John Mason

Yes, jscnyc, I was responding mainly to this earlier comment about the lack of OTA HD in the area during daytime. Probably should have quoted that post for clarity. As I mentioned, CBS's weekday Y&R can be a sort of 1080/60i prerecorded 'HD test' during non-primetime weekdays.


Any live 1080 HD would be 1080/60i. The msg HD, which I don't get on TWC, would be 1080/60i from start to finish, probably even if it was a taped show (just like taped sports on HDNet). -- John


----------



## Lord British

Hi all - I am moving to Manhattan soon and I was wondering if anyone has some suggestions on the best indoor antenna to pick up the digital stations in the area (don't care about analog). I will be living on the UES.


Thanks in advance!!


Oh yeah, any suggestions on where to get a good deal on a plasma in the area would also be greatly appreciated.


----------



## John Tuohy

Zeniths silver sensor or Radio shacks bowtie are both recommended


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Lord British_
> 
> Hi all - I am moving to Manhattan soon and I was wondering if anyone has some suggestions on the best indoor antenna to pick up the digital stations in the area (don't care about analog). I will be living on the UES.



Obviously with a view of the Empire State Building, pickup of CBS (HD) and Fox/UPN (non-HD) will be easy. Other ESB HDTV stations are slated later this year. If facing North (etc.) only, you may be able to tune in reflected, but more multipath-erratic signals, by pointing your antenna elsewhere. If you're on a high floor, other regional stations are possible. (Enter your location at antennaweb.org to check the options). If possible, an antenna test inside versus outside might reveal your windows have a metallic content that diminishes UHF frequencies. If the building has Time Warner Cable, among the best local HD sources (RCN serves some Manhattan buildings), just call 718 670 0265 for a converter and visit http://www.twcnyc.com/ for pricing and channel options. -- John


----------



## Lord British

Thanks for the replies everyone -


The Silver Sensor sounds like a great choice (btw, I checked froogle.com and it can be found for as low as 21.26).


So I assume that there is no need to pick up the VHF band in NYC? No digital channels being transmitted on VHF?


Also, is a preamp beneficial at all? My apt does have a window facing south (where the majority of the transmitters seem to be in relation to the Upper East Side) but naturally I am surrounded by other buildings.


LB


----------



## John Tuohy

WPIX broadcasts in the VHF band but that should be changed in a few months. I am still able to pick up WPIX w/ the silver sensor albeit at a weaker reading but I have Line of sight to the ESB.


----------



## George Thompson

ESB DTV Antenna/Combiner put on hold again.....


----------



## cgardias

Excuse my ignorance but what does that mean to us?


----------



## RichYak

It means none of the other locals can broadcast until then. No ABC and No NBC. Bummer.


----------



## cgardias

For crying out loud!!!!!!!









Damn them!!!!


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Lord British_
> *Also, is a preamp beneficial at all? My apt does have a window facing south (where the majority of the transmitters seem to be in relation to the Upper East Side) but naturally I am surrounded by other buildings.
> 
> LB*



One's experience doesn't necessarily work for another, but I couldn't receive WCBS from my one story house in Bayside with an old beaten up outside antenna. I put a RS 15-1170 on it and it's been coming in strong.


My RS offered to take it back if it didn't work. Suggest you ask yours.


Mel


----------



## Paperboy2003

George when you say 'one of the members' I assume you're speaking of one of the networks. Please let us know which one so we can call and ream them royally. They can't take the time to put in a requisition for the funds on time...they should be skinned alive!


That's pathetic, but it follows the pattern of delay after delay. As you said, all of this in the #1 market in the country!


Doug


----------



## Man-Fai Wong




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *My RS offered to take it back if it didn't work. Suggest you ask yours.*



Seems like that's standard policy for most anything at RatShack.


_Man_


----------



## trekkerj

Unbelievable. I was beginning to think that Cablevision would add ABC and NBC-DT, maybe even WPIX, but I've given up hope and figured I could wait a couple of more months and get it OTA. Now that this seems to be not happening, I'll never get to see these other stations in HD.


George, I noticed you edited your message, but do you have any other details? Does this look like it will hold it up for a long time, or just a little whlie? I mean, they've been working on the thing up there for a little while now, no?


I wish Cablevision would get it's act together, then I wouldn't have to even worry about this. Are you listening Mr. Dolan??????


----------



## Paperboy2003

I would almost think, although this might not make sense in the grand scheme, that Dolan might not plan to add any more HD to cablevision because he has Xoom coming out in October and that, they say, will be 30+ channels of HD. He might be holding back on Cablevision to try to get people to subscribe and boost the Xoom numbers as best as possible before an IPO. Just a thought....but to recap, we're all screwed with no ABC and NBC!


Doug


----------



## trekkerj

That doesn't make sense. Voom won't have HD locals anyway -- besides, why bother with PBS-HD and CBS-HD, if you planned to stop there. Doesn't make sense. And why did negotiations with locals that are already broadcasting take longer than the one's that aren't?


----------



## Paperboy2003

I never claimed to be lucid....it was just my own personal conspiracy theory (that obviously has many holes in it)


Doug


----------



## trekkerj

Wouldn't there be some kind of news item about this situation? I've been searching through local papers and can't find anything. This whole situation is so frustrating.


----------



## wward

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't there be some kind of news item about this situation? I've been searching through

local papers and can't find anything. This whole situation is so frustrating.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As frustrating as this may be this is not a news worthy article for the local papers lets keep this in perspective there was never a chance (as I stated much early on in this thread, with info from creditable sources) that beyond the stations broadcasting digitally now that the other local stations would not be back on the air this year.


The real news would be if all the networks made it back on the air before years end that would definitely be in a few newspapers to say the least.


Digital transmissions as it stands for those stations that are not broadcasting digitally is a costly and logistically enormous task and considering the state of affairs with the combiner project will delay things from moving forward for quite a while.


I'm not trying to be the voice of doom just trying to add a little calm and perspective to the situation.


----------



## MicroChip




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *ESB DTV Antenna/Combiner put on hold again.....*



George,


You're a little vague on the details. Any more you could tell us? We would never shoot the messenger...


MC


----------



## Linux23

i'm so sick of these delays? what is keeping them from broadcasting a low-power signal temporarily until a good solution can be found?


----------



## Ken Ross

I hate to say it, but it's really beginning to look like the broadcasters are using 9/11 for an excuse to totally avoid their responsibility. After over 2 years and the gracious offers of CBS, there is simply no good excuse for this to go on.


----------



## Manatus

I recently discovered a web-reprint of an article dating from 1967 (just after the plans for the WTC were made public) on the history of the ESB's broadcasting antennas that some frequenters of this thread may find interesting or ironic ( BROADCAST ANTENNAS ON THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING ). The article concludes with these two paragraphs:


The world's most unusual antenna site may not exist much longer. Recently, the Port of New York Authority has been planning the construction of twin 110-story skyscrapers in Lower Manhattan. Independent studies by Alford Manufacturing Co, and Jansky and Bailey have shown that the proposed towers would cause ghosting to some viewers watching some of the TV stations presently on the Empire State Building. Several solutions to the program have been advanced, one being to relocate antennas from Empire State to the new. taller structures (to be known as the World Trade Center).

_Whatever the future of the Empire State Building antenna site. it remains a monument to the ability of broadcast engineers and stations to cooperate for their mutual welfare and for the public benefit._


(Emphasis added)


----------



## John Tillman

Technical reasons up to a year after 9/11 were plausible. Two years smells like a rotten apple. Wish I could get em all off DISH.


----------



## Paperboy2003

George has been extremely quiet since he edited his intial post....anything going on George.....Can you tell us who didn't get their combiner payment in on time?? Who's to blame now??


Doug


----------



## MicroChip




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *George has been extremely quiet since he edited his intial post....anything going on George.....Can you tell us who didn't get their combiner payment in on time?? Who's to blame now??
> 
> 
> Doug*



Or did anybody see what he posted before he edited it?


Here's what he said in the HDTV-in-NYC Yahoo group:



> Quote:
> From: "George Thompson"
> 
> Date: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:23 pm
> 
> Subject: EBS combiner on hold till March '04
> 
> 
> 
> One of the signers of the grand alliance of stations to use the DTV
> 
> broadband antenna on ESB failed to come up with the money. The next
> 
> available time for Dielectric to work on the combiner is March '04.
> 
> GT



That's a little more clear, and depressing. Next time they can work on it is March, that means it won't be done until...


MC


----------



## Chriš2

This is pathetic. How much money are we talking here? Even in the millions it's probably a drop in the bucket for some of the major networks considering the market. But what do I know...all I know is that I have never watched so much network TV since I got HDTV. I even watch PBS! I haven't don't that since Sesame Street was on when I was a toddler.


Why don't the other stations pony up the money and double-charge the loser when nobody watches their crappy SD signal, and they finally decide it was worth it?


----------



## Paperboy2003

What you wrote MicroChip is essentially what George wrote here before he edited it. I just am curious (even though it doesn't matter) who the deadbeat is. Also why would they have to wait until March now....that strikes me as odd....does it have to do with the impending winter or are these 'combiners' only made at a certain time. It would seem odd that they could pay for it September and have it installed and running in November, but that they can't now do anything before March. Perhaps someone who understands that industry can shed some light on that.


Thanks


Doug


----------



## Megahurts

What that might mean is that Dielectric is a major suppler of antennas and transmission equipment to the industry. They may be backed up in orders to fill and cannot put the EBS combiner in queue until March. That is probably a very good guess.

I do not think anyone outside of the inner circle of the alliance knows who the guilty party is and what the reason for not providing funds. I believe that they tend to shun publicity.


----------



## cpto

I've pretty much given up on HD from NBC, ABC, and WB in the near future.


So the new antenna complex is delayed again. After all this time it really doesn't bother me all that much--after all, it's just TV (and the ads take up 25% of the total programming time).


But after getting used to the CBS HD programming I find that's more than enough for my busy schedule. After getting my set three years ago I was really disgusted with the lousy NTSC signal that my local Cablevision service provided, and started watching only HD except for news.


That's how I found CSI and other CBS programs I came to enjoy.


For me, at least, that means that whatever audience ABC and NBC are trying to reach, I'm not part of it. Norw will I be until, apparently, March of next year--if then.


Regardless of what they say, we all know the networks are businesses and their main goal is to maximize net profit. If advertisers on those networks don't care that they're not reaching me: fine! Then I don't care about not learning of their products or watching the shows they're sponsoring.


R


----------



## trekkerj

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I would really like to watch West Wing in HD tonight, and can't. Also, if Angel is in HD this year and I can't see it, that would really annoy me. It also stinks for us MNF viewers. At least November would mean that we wouldn't miss the whole season.


However, I wouldn't have come to love CSI and CSI Miami if not for CBS-HD. I might get into other shows on other networks that I wouldn't otherwise, If they'd start broadcasting or come to an agreement with Cablevision.


----------



## Bryan1701HD

Now for something completely different...


Does anyone know when CBS will begin broadcasting Late Night with David Letterman in HD? Letterman was joking about the new HD cameras months ago (and even dented one with his microphone), but still no HD broadcasts.


- Bryan


----------



## trekkerj

From what I've read in different threads over in the HDTV Programming forum, not for a while. Something to do with switching their control room over to handle HD. Not before the end of the year, anyway.


----------



## MVideo

I have to agree with you, cpto. HD viewers, one would think, is a pretty interesting demographic. The networks havn't had the opportunity to have such a captive audience in decades, and they're blowing it.


If the hdtv signals were live today, they'd have quite a bit of my attention, as CBS does. By the time they get their signals on the air, we'll all be addicted to CBS programing and there will be a lot more HD content on the traditional cable stations to compete with.


It will be interesting to see the population numbers on the HD demographic after the holiday season with all that new digital equipment in consumers hands. Wonder if this could be big enough to allow CBS to sneak in the back door and catch NBC and ABC.


----------



## Paperboy2003

CBS if I recall, and this has nothing to do with HD, is the number one networkd now anyway. I thought I remember the order being CBS, NBC, ABC. Sure would be great if we could pin that on the lack of hd.


Enjoy CSI tonight!


Oh well...



Doug


----------



## cpto

Meandering on a bit on this thread within a thread, I find it curious that there aren't really an ads in HD on CBS HD. Maybe it's just too complex to insert an HD ad instead of switching to the NTSC upconverted feed.


However, given the high cost of producing most commercials, having an HD version run off would seem to be a minimal additional expense. And I've noticed how people have commented on HD ads on HDNet and (I think) during the occasional sports event.


Perhaps someone more familiar with the operations side can let us know why HD commercials aren't being broadcast. I suspect I'd pay more attention to them--especially if they also used 5.1 Dolby creatively.


Any thoughts?


Rick


----------



## Megahurts

This may be more of a network HD programming issue than a local thing but, the HD automation systems and resources may be still in development with standards and protocols changing so swiftly. Like getting the mass storage systems to talk to the production edit facilities to talk to news edit facilities (different protocols or operating systems). As more of the trend toward tapeless facilities goes on, HD commercials will be integrated into the inventory of available source material. This is a pricey investment that will take time to accumulate.

You're right, HD versions of commercials are easy enough to come by. But getting them into the schedule is a bit tougher.


----------



## Megahurts




> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> 
> *CBS if I recall, and this has nothing to do with HD, is the number one networkd now anyway. I thought I remember the order being CBS, NBC, ABC. Sure would be great if we could pin that on the lack of hd.
> 
> 
> Lets see if I got this right:
> 
> 
> Share CBS 13, NBC 13, ABC 10, Fox 10
> 
> 
> Ratings
> 
> 18-49 CBS 3.8, NBC 4.5, ABC 3.8, Fox 4.3
> 
> 
> 
> HD ratings due to go live in late in '04.*


----------



## BAbaustin

Hi,

I finally got jacked into the world of HDTV this week, and I was hoping someone help me with my somewhat lackluster reception. I live on the Upper West Side in Manhattan, approximately 4 miles from the Empire State Building.


I live on the top floor of a six story building, but I do NOT have a clear sight line to the ESB, as all my windows face west. I'm using a Samsung SIR-T151 Tuner and a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. I have been able to receive CBS and FOX, but it has been spotty. The antenna is extremely picky. Even though Fox and CBS are both being broadcast from the ESB, I still need to adjust the position of the antenna when I switch between the two channels. If the antenna is moved even an inch in any direction, I lose the signal. The tuner says I'm only getting 50% signal, and there is no fluctuation. It's only 50% or 0%. I know that my reception is hurt by being in a somewhat low-rise, brick building, but I figured that my very-close proximity to the ESB would counterbalance that problem. I'm not able to pull in any other channels like PBS in New Jersey.


What would you all recommend? I would like to be able to get both CBS and FOX without fiddling every time. Does anyone recommend a different antenna? Rooftop isn't really an option for me unfortunately. And what about these firmware upgrades I've been hearing about, could that help anything?

Thanks so much,

Ben


----------



## trekkerj

Having to adjust between CBS and FOX is normal, not sure of the explanation, but that's the way it is, especially if the reception is spotty to begin with. I'd make sure to get the antenna as close to a window as possible (even if it's not facing in the perfect direction). If a window is too far, get a decent pre-amp and run a longer cable. This has greatly helped me in the past. Pain to run a long coax across the room to the window, but it worked.


----------



## John Mason

That sounds very similar to what I have to do, north-facing, only 9 blocks from the ESB, Ben. Also use a SS into my set's built-in tuner. But I can rarely tune in Fox; CBS is erratic. It's all due to NYC's horrendus multipath, although antennas obviously should be pointed at transmitters. Getting TW or RCN cable is the best fix, assuming you can't put up DBS dishes. Another alternative might be using a building's master antenna system, assuming it delivers UHF and VHF (believe WPIX-DT is still on VHF, but I can't pick it up either.) WNET-DT broadcasts a weak signal toward Newark from a site west of the ESB. Enter your location at antennaweb.org for nearby station frequencies; you might pick up regional stations from N.J. -- John


----------



## trekkerj

If you want a PBS station, try WLIW-DT on 22 from LI. I can pick it up from 30 miles west of the city, you might have some luck with that. Just aim your multidirectional antenna east. They have two subchannels, 21-1 is HD.


----------



## Man-Fai Wong

You guys should probably try a decent omnidirectional antenna due to all the multipath problems, instead of the Silver Sensor, which is directional, IIRC. I'd try the RatShack double-bowtie w/ a preamp for the UHF signals. If it doesn't work, you can always return it.


_Man_


----------



## trekkerj

That's exactly what I use, a good recommendation.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MVideo_
> *I have to agree with you, cpto. HD viewers, one would think, is a pretty interesting demographic. The networks havn't had the opportunity to have such a captive audience in decades, and they're blowing it.*



I agree 100%. It's hard to believe some of the stuff I'm watching now. Maybe it's good we don't have NBC because I might even tune in to "Whoopi". Without HD I would rather stick needles in my eyes than watch that.


----------



## Megahurts

*********************Pure Speculation and Fantasy***************

Would anyone with really good contacts at WABC care to confirm or deny a rumor as to WABC-DT heading over to Conte Nast in the next few months?


----------



## Paperboy2003

It wouldn't be a bad idea since the new Conde Nast Bldg is quite tall. I don't know if they have an antennae on their roof or if it's built for antennae, but I don't think it's just simple enough to sign a lease and build an antenna; but I sure wish it were true and possible to do quickly.


George...any input? Is it simple enough as signing a lease and building an antenna?


Doug


----------



## Manatus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *It wouldn't be a bad idea since the new Conde Nast Bldg is quite tall. I don't know if they have an antennae on their roof or if it's built for antennae, but I don't think it's just simple enough to sign a lease and build an antenna; but I sure wish it were true and possible to do quickly.
> 
> 
> Doug*



The Conde-Nast building has always had a broadcast antenna. The original antenna served primarily as a backup facility for radio stations. A new 358-tall antenna is now under construction, with completion due later this month. Its top will be at about the same elevation as the bottom of the ESB antenna mast.


----------



## George Thompson

Of course it is possible. With all that is happening at EBS I'm not surprised.

Dielectric is providing the antennas for the Durst Organization at 4 Times Square. The contract provides for up to 5 master antenna systems over the life of the agreement. The agreement also extends to Dielectric's patented EHTline and digiTLine transmission lines. The first deliveries, scheduled for completion this month will be comprised of three master panel antennas capable of accommodating NTSC and DTV broadcasts from channels 7 through 61.

Another Maine antenna maker, Shively Labs, made the FM antenna and combiner for 9 FM stations that already call it home. (If you catch me for drinks one night I'll tell you stories of Shively's 21 element slant bay linear dipole antenna with three feet of black ice on Sugarloaf Mountain in Maine when I was CE for WTOS up there).

Durst is waiting with open arms for stations to stop by.

Let the EBS group eat that combiner......

GT


----------



## trekkerj

What kind of range would a DTV station have from that building given the height? Let us know if you hear any rumors. To get ABC or NBC back within the next month or so would be really nice.


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *What kind of range would a DTV station have from that building given the height? Let us know if you hear any rumors. To get ABC or NBC back within the next month or so would be really nice.*



or a dream.


----------



## pabuwal

I would bet that it is WNBC who didn't come up with the money for the combiner. Don't expect to seem them back on the air for quite a bit.


----------



## MicroChip

At least for now, http://www.abc45online.com/ still maintains that ABC-DT expects to begin digital transmission in early November (a month away).


Isn't there somebody we can contact at WABC to ask them? Clearly if the Empire combiner deal is dead until at least March, that WABC either has a backup plan to get on the air next month, or does not update a site that we monitor with great regularity.


Thoughts?


MC


----------



## Paperboy2003

The thought is that they don't update their site regularly. If there was a back up plan one would think we would have heard about it by now. I won't hold my breath until we get definitive word, which I don't expect until March or April.


Doug


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *The thought is that they don't update their site regularly. If there was a back up plan one would think we would have heard about it by now. I won't hold my breath until we get definitive word, which I don't expect until March or April.
> 
> 
> Doug*



Oh, ye of little faith...Take heart. I just heard from an authoritative source in the broadcast engineering industry that WABC-TV has its own plans for resuming digital broadcasting. And yes, the early November date on their website is as firm as things get in New York. The key development is that, come November, those splendid digital pixels will not be coming from the Empire State Building where lawyers for the stations are still squabbling, but from a different location in the heart of Times Square!


----------



## John Tuohy

Yes ! Great news lets hope its true.


----------



## jbjbjbjb

I'm in Rockland county, NY and just set up a RS U-75R (UHF Yagi)in my attic pointed to 186°, no preamp and pulling in 2-1(CBS), 5-1 (FOX) and 5-2(UPN) all about 85%. However, I can't get a signal for 12-1(PIX). Does anyone know why? Is it because my antenna is having problems with channel 12 or is the station's power so low that I can't pick it up or is the direction different than 186°.


----------



## Chriš2

jb- I'm in Fairfield County, CT, and have the same situation. I can get CBS & FOX/UPN but no WPIX (which is actually UHF channel 33, shouldn't be a problem with the antenna). I believe it's a power issue?


Anyone outside of city limits getting WPIX-DT?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *I can get CBS & FOX/UPN but no WPIX (which is actually UHF channel 33, shouldn't be a problem with the antenna). I believe it's a power issue?
> *



WPIX-DT is not yet on channel 33. They are temporarily on VHF channel 12 at about 125 watts.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *WPIX-DT is not yet on channel 33. They are temporarily on VHF channel 12 at about 125 watts.*



Well I guess that's part of my problem! I was going off antennaweb.org which said 33 was now live. I tried 12 though, still nothing - I think I have a better chance of getting stations from Philly.


----------



## trekkerj

I can pick up ch 12 in Northern NJ using a preamp and a simple pair of rabbit ear antenna oriented in just the right way. Not as reliable as CBS, but I was able to watch several shows without much problem.


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MicroChip_
> *At least for now, http://www.abc45online.com/ still maintains that ABC-DT expects to begin digital transmission in early November (a month away).
> 
> 
> Isn't there somebody we can contact at WABC to ask them? Clearly if the Empire combiner deal is dead until at least March, that WABC either has a backup plan to get on the air next month, or does not update a site that we monitor with great regularity.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> MC*



If you go here it states that both ABC and NBC are to resume broadcasting in Dec of this year. Is that site not accurate as well?


----------



## Paperboy2003

"If you go here it states that both ABC and NBC are to resume broadcasting in Dec of this year. Is that site not accurate as well?"


___________________________________________


Someone in the past has said that the dates on that site are simply permit dates that have to be renewed every six months, hence 12/31 and 6/31.


Time will tell....


Doug


----------



## rob8558

is CBS2 now doing 5.1 fulltime? it started with the giant game today and has continued thru. any thoughts?


----------



## trekkerj

No.


Sports are in 5.1. The only thing required to activate the 5.1 flag on your receiver is for the network engineer at WCBS to throw a switch, which he does right before the game to allow the 5.1 feed from the game. Usually, they forget to turn off the flag, which for non-5.1 material results in 2.0 sound from the left and right speakers only (Depends on your receiver). It's just a flag which means nothing.


----------



## Brian E.

Speaking of the 5.1 sound for the Giants game... I found that in my setup the channels carrying the crowd noise, especially the rear channels, were so loud that they completely drowned out the announcers. I had to force the receiver into stereo mode in order to hear what Simms had to say. Did anyone else notice this, and is it something that WCBS controls, or is it controled by the network feed? I guess it doesn't really matter because the Giants losing pretty much made watching the game miserable anyway.


----------



## trekkerj

I didn't notice anything. A couple of weeks ago, CBS made one of the college games so loud in the surrounds that my speakers were crackling. Today it seemed ok though.


Anyway, off to watch another episode of the Practice in standard definition.


----------



## MicroChip

I'm thinking about unsubscribing to this thread. I have Cablevision for cable, and between them and OTA, like this thread, HDTV in the metro NYC area is just standing still. I bitched about it like a year ago, and people gave me a bunch of "but what about 9/11" stuff, but that was over 2 years ago now, and Cablevision and the local networks have done nothing to restore the lost programming. Add to that the wars going on between cable companies and ESPN/ABC/Disney, and Cablevision putting all their HDTV focus on their crack satellite service which I hope gets hit by a meteor, instead of putting it on cable.


If there was a way I could screw them all I would. I'm thinking about trying to hook up one of those Canadian satellite systems, and getting DSL, and telling Cablevision to go suck a lemon.


MC


----------



## trekkerj

I subscribe to this thread for the very reason that I have Cablevision and I am awaiting another solution to the lack of NBC, ABC, and WB on Cablevision's HD offerings. Still holding out hope of something happening on either front, both of which I monitor on avsforum and the iO yahoo group.


----------



## wward

The sound problem on yesterdays game was not that much of a problem I just turned down the surrounds down a little. What really sucked was the constant signal and sound dropouts all during the game there were times when there was no signal at all for 5 mins at a clip.


Needless to say it was very difficult to watch the game. BTW I received the signal OTA.


----------



## Ken Ross

My my Microchip, such anger!!! Your anger is better spent on more important things than HD. The fact is that when you first complained about OTA HD, it WAS too early to be talking that way! 9/11 was still fresh and it was unreasonable to have expected a return to normalcy. However now, over 2 years later it is not unreasonable to have expected restoration in the biggest market in the world. I do beleive at this point it is nothing more than excuse making on the part of the networks.


Why are you so opposed to the HD satellite venture by Cablevision?


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MicroChip_
> *If there was a way I could screw them all I would.
> 
> MC*



Seems to me this is a matter for our elected officials to bring forcefully to the attention of the FCC.


Rather than get angry, perhaps we could get together with a letter to NY, NJ and CT senators and perhaps a US representative or two to pressure the FCC to, in turn, pressure the local stations.


Mel


----------



## MicroChip




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Why are you so opposed to the HD satellite venture by Cablevision?*



Because I am one of their cable subscribers. They are not competitive with Time Warner, Comcast and RCN, all of whom serve surrounding towns, with respect to their HD offerings (and many other things). Now they've got an idea to charge me an additional $750 plus monthly fees if we want any more HD programming, and that STILL won't solve the primary problem of the OTA locals.


MC


----------



## MicroChip




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *The fact is that when you first complained about OTA HD, it WAS too early to be talking that way! 9/11 was still fresh and it was unreasonable to have expected a return to normalcy. However now, over 2 years later it is not unreasonable to have expected restoration in the biggest market in the world. I do beleive at this point it is nothing more than excuse making on the part of the networks.*



I just battled my way through the AVS search engine (high server load...blah blah blah) and I posted the original ***** on 12-26-02, more than a year after 9/11. Why was it "still fresh" then, but now it's "excuse making"? What's the limit for when it's ok to blame the networks? More than 2 years? Who decides?


I don't think it has anything to do with 9/11. I think they're delaying the restoration of their OTA signals so they can get the cable companies to pony up the money to carry them. And Cablevision isn't doing it, they only carry the networks that already ARE available OTA (CBS-DT, Fox-DT, PBS-DT). I think they're all nickel and diming each other to death and the ones who don't get to watch is US.


MC


----------



## cpto

MC - Cablevision isn't carrying _any_ HD signals in my area (Morristown). Even if they carry local HD signals, I suspect they'll charge more for the _privilege_ of receiving them. Hmmm. I thought that cable companies had a "must carry" rule for local stations.


In any event, I'm going to write (once again) to my congressmen to complain about the situation. I understand that Lautenberg either doesn't have a web site, or refuses to accept them. Understandable, given his age and the way he was elected.


Still, I would think that reps from the NJ/NY are should be at least a little excited that their area is below many smaller cities in providing digital broadcasting. But maybe not - maybe they got a lot of money for their campaigns from networks and cable companies.


Disgusted with this whole mess.


C


----------



## sangs

Has anybody else been experiencing issues receiving FOX lately? Luckily, I get it through Comcast also, but the OTA signal has not been very reliable out here. Lots of breakups and many times I haven't even been able to pick up a signal. I've had no problems with CBS and WPIX, so it wouldn't appear to be hardware related. Anyone else?


----------



## trekkerj

cpto, what are you talking about? I am in the Morristown area and get all the CV HD channels.


----------



## dm145

I use an indoor antenna and find I have to readjust every couple of weeks to receive CBS, FOX, and PBS. PBS is always the hardest for me. CBS and FOX usually come in at 100 percent.


----------



## KenA

Anyone have problems with WB last night? I tuned in during prime-time and I got 0% signal. I know they broadcast on a bunch of different channels. Which one should I program into my HiPix?


----------



## trekkerj

Does anyone know if the WPIX had any HD last night? They haven't been doing HD lately.


PS To set up WPIX-DT, you need to tune to ch 12 first. After that, it doesn't matter if you do 12-1, 11-1, 11-2, 75-1, etc. all the same.


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *Cablevision isn't carrying any HD signals in my area (Morristown). Even if they carry local HD signals, I suspect they'll charge more for the privilege of receiving them. Hmmm. I thought that cable companies had a "must carry" rule for local stations.
> 
> 
> In any event, I'm going to write (once again) to my congressmen to complain about the situation. I understand that Lautenberg either doesn't have a web site, or refuses to accept them. Understandable, given his age and the way he was elected.
> *



You might want to double-check your situation before firing off a letter to your congressman. I'm pretty sure CV has been providing HD to the Morristown area since early in the year.


----------



## arthurvino

groups.yahoo.com has io.tv group..

Here, in Bergen Country with io.tv u get fox, msg, hbp, sho, cbs, fox (ed) and pbs in HD... u need 4200hd box and io.tvt service ($65+)


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Seems to me this is a matter for our elected officials to bring forcefully to the attention of the FCC.
> 
> 
> Rather than get angry, perhaps we could get together with a letter to NY, NJ and CT senators and perhaps a US representative or two to pressure the FCC to, in turn, pressure the local stations.
> 
> 
> Mel*



I took my own advice today and sent letters and emails to the two New York senators and to my congressman, Gary Ackerman.


Suggest you all do the same.


----------



## Linux23

 About the WPIX-DT not sending any HD 


check out the thread above. if you guys want HD from WPIX-DT again, we need to all call and complain. I can only do so much by myself.


----------



## trekkerj

I checked during one of their shows. My reception sucked today, but it was HD.


----------



## cpto

When I was talking about writing to my Congressmen, it was about the slow, (lack of) OTA progress in NYC, not about Cablevision carrying HD.


When I last checked with Cablevision about a month ago I was told that there was no HD service in my area and that they didn't carry local channels.


Perhaps the situation has changed - I'll call Saturday and try to find out. Or, it may be that I just got an ignorant service rep. I know that a couple of days ago cable went out and I and at least four other neighbors called in to complain. We were all told that we were the first callers and that CV wouldn't declare an area problem until there were at least 3. We get this response all the time from Cablevision SRs, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if I was given incorrect info.


Perhaps someone with Cablevision in Morris County can mention whether Cablevision _does_ carry NYC OTA digital channels.


C


----------



## trekkerj

Cablevision carries WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT, and WNET-DT. That's it so far for broadcast locals.


As for HDTV in general, it's been available in Morris County since around February, at the same time it was deployed just about everywhere else in the CV area. Check www.io.tv, there are only a very small number of areas that don't have HD.


In Morris County (and most areas), we get:


146 MSG-HD

147 FSNY-HD

148 NBA-TV (eventually with be HD for some games)

310 HBO-HD

330 SHO-HD

700 HDPPV On Demand

702 CBS-HD

705 FOX Digital

713 WNET-DT (Thirteen HD, PBS)


----------



## jbjbjbjb

Was watching the Giant game today on channel 5-1, and was getting alot of drop outs. signal strength was 75% then dropped down to 0%. Normally I dont have this problem. Channel 2-1 was 95%. Anybody else have this problem during the game today or is it just me.


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jbjbjbjb_
> *Was watching the Giant game today on channel 5-1, and was getting alot of drop outs. signal strength was 75% then dropped down to 0%. Normally I dont have this problem. Channel 2-1 was 95%. Anybody else have this problem during the game today or is it just me.*



It was brutal for me also. Luckily I was able to switch to the Comcast feed.


----------



## BuzaidC

Anything new on the rumor that ABC would begin broadcasting from the Conde Nast building in November? Is it even possbile to get the equipment in place that fast?


If they do, would the signal be just as strong as it would have been at the ESB. The antenna on top of the Conde Nast building looks very tall.


----------



## Alan Malka




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jbjbjbjb_
> *Was watching the Giant game today on channel 5-1, and was getting alot of drop outs. signal strength was 75% then dropped down to 0%. Normally I dont have this problem. Channel 2-1 was 95%. Anybody else have this problem during the game today or is it just me.*



I too had problems receiving the FOX broadcast. I had attributed it to the tuner - my Samsung T-150 died and I'm using the RCA DTC-100 (which never worked all that well in my setup) - but I guess the tuner wasn't at fault. Like sangs did, I switched to Comcast (during commercials in the KC/GB game).


----------



## cpto

I'm wondering about the height of the Conde Nast building also. As this page shows, it's significantly shorter than the ESB. http://www.skyscrapers.com/re/en/wm/ci/101028/bu/ss/2/ 


I already have problems with the ESB due to my neighbor's roof being a little higher than mine and in line with the ESB. Who knows whether any signal from a shorter tower will make it through. Only time will tell, I guess.


Now if something like Wright's mile-high skyscraper would have been built in NYC, that would have been fine. But with the current mayor, we'll be lucky to get a 300' tower and it will probably be located 50 miles from the city!


Rick


----------



## Linux23

hey, the current Mayor is my boss.


----------



## chingko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Linux23_
> *hey, the current Mayor is my boss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



his private company or public office?


----------



## Paperboy2003

TrekkerJ and CPTO, what OTA stations do you get. I finally hooked up my CM7777 here in Randolph and while I was hoping to pick up some new channels (PBS?), I still just receive 2.1,5.1,5.2. I know it's my crappy Terk antenna, but I just was wondering what you guys were pulling in and with what antenna?


Thanks,


Doug


----------



## trekkerj

I primarily use the Radio Shack double bowtie. I pull in those that you mentioned, and a spanish station (53). With a preamp, I can pick up WLIW-DT (22). With a VHF antenna stuck outside my window and after finding the sweet spot, I can also pull in a weak WPIX-DT (12). I use Cablevision, which naturally, gives me the ones that are easiest to pull in.


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chingko_
> *his private company or public office?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



company.


----------



## kaiming

Since the antennaweb seems out of date, Who has the up to date list of OTA HD avail in NYC.


Specifically, can I watch angel in HD (FOX).


I'm in brooklyn, BedStuy, And I think a tall rooftop antenna could see the ESB. but a 4 story building is blocking the line of sight.


----------



## trekkerj

Angel is in HD on WB.


----------



## cgardias

I'm experiencing wild fluctuations in signal strength lately.

I'm using a HiPix card connected to an old RS antenna and my signal strength for the last couple of nights has been fluctuating between 70 and 0. Any ideas as to what could be causing this and how it may be remedied?


----------



## jbjbjbjb

Last night was OK for me but the previous two nights I had the same problem. I believe it was probably power fluctations due to the windy conditions or to problems with the broadcast power.


----------



## Infominister

Same experience here. However, I've recently been calling WCBS master control about the fluctuating signal strength on Channel 56 and they always assure me that they're at full strength. The other strange thing is that I get a stronger, more steady signal on WNYW-DT than on WCBS-DT lately.


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *
> 
> 
> I think we'll read it here first when the local NYC DT stations start testing. If we're lucky, they'll monitor us to get feedback on how well it's working.
> 
> 
> Rick*




Reading this old post made me wonder....if ABC was still planning on going live in the beginning of November, wouldn't they be testing now? I mean that the 'beginning' of November is a few short weeks away, I would have thought that testing would probably begin a few weeks prior to launch.


Just wonderin'


Doug


----------



## ADGrant

Re: Cablevsion.


Here in Fairfield County, Connecicut, we had to wait until around May until we got the IO digital cable service. We had to wait until this month for HD cable and the only channels we seem to have right now are CBS and WNET. Would it have killed them to include HBO.


I too am annoyed that Cablevision is launching a Satellite venture and not not focusing on what they are supposed to do, provide a decent Cable Service.


----------



## BuzaidC

Are there any that ABC-DT can lease or rent?


For example, I think that WXTV broadcasts digitally on Channel 40 from the ESB. I doubt, however, that they broadcast any HDTV content and that anyone really watches the digital broadcast. (I think it is a directional antenna so I cannot receive it where I am.) Would the FCC allow WABC to rent/borrow/lease etc. the WXTV digital transmitter until they could get their own operating? Might be a dumb question but if it is not being used/watched, it is kind of wasted.


I also noticed that WRNN from Kingston has started on DTV 48 and that TBN is also broadcasting digitally now as well (DTV 29). I doubt either will broadcast any HDTV and I doubt that anyone watches their digital broadcasts as well. It seems that the capacity could be be better used by NBC and ABC and that DTV viewers would be better served until ABC and NBC are up and running again


----------



## Paperboy2003

Slightly OT, but it's never too early to plan ahead.....who has the SuperBowl this year?


Hope that if it's fox they have the 720p ready for such a huge event!


----------



## KenA

CBS has the Superbowl. Expect HDTV!


----------



## trekkerj

George, any updates for us? Hear anything about those Conde Nast rumors? The abc45online website still lists early November as the date they "expect to resume digital broadcasting". Is this a pipe dream and a matter of them not updating their site after the ESB debacle, or do you think there is still a shot?


----------



## George Thompson

I haven't heard anything in the grapevine lately. Several sources had mentioned the ABC thing a while ago, but that is the last word. My social group of insiders haven't been out drinking lately or on the local 2m repeaters, so until we meet again I have no news.

I also have to make sure it is not considered sensitive info and available to the general public.

GT


----------



## Infominister

I spoke to an engineer at WABC-DT who would only go as far as to say that they're "working on" their goal of going live on Channel 45 from the Conde Nast building sometime in November. He was very careful to be non-committal, mentioning that people on the AVS Forum tend to hear what they want to hear. He also mentioned that the signal would be at lower power. I'm not sure if that meant "low", like the almost non-existent signal from WPIX-DT, or just lowER than their pre-9/11 signal, which might still be strong enough to reach the burbs', as with WCBC-DT and WNYW-DT.


We shall see what we shall see.


----------



## Manatus

For what it's worth: An article in the current issue of _Crain's New York Business_ discusses the marketing of the Conde-Nast antenna facility and states that WABC-TV is installing a digital antenna there. I've already discarded my copy of the newspaper, but I don't recall that the article mentioned any schedule for the installation. I do have a full view of the top half of the Conde Nast antenna mast from my apartment, and there's certainly nothing up there that looks like an antenna to me.


----------



## trekkerj

IF it was still to be on channel 45, would it not still have to be relatively high power to reach anywhere. Isn't it true that the lower the channel, the less power you need (this being the reason wpix switched from 33 to 12 to do low power). As long as it reaches me 30 miles out. I can even pick up WPIX at times, so who knows. November's not far off, so as you say, we shall see.


----------



## trekkerj

I did a search on their website. You have to be a paid subscriber to get the full article. If anyone has access, i'd like to see the article. Anyway, this is the blurb that came up in the search results:


Published 10/20/2003 in Crain's New York Business

Times Sq. sending mixed signalsTelevision stations are giving a second look to a building that they had once rejected as too short for their backup transmitters. ABC-TV has signed a lease for antenna space atop 4 Times Square, the 52-story tower known as the Conde Nast building, which just...


----------



## Paperboy2003

Thats good to see. I went to Wired NY to see if I could find anything else without any luck. Perhaps since this confirms what we've heard elsewhere, then the info on early November is true. Of course ABC won't update the website until they know that there was no way to hit the promised time frame. In other words only expect abc to adjust the website if they can't do it by early November on November 10th.


----------



## John Tuohy

 http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrap...sq/default.htm 


Here is the building in Times sqr.


----------



## Manatus

Here's a photo of the Conde-Nast antenna mast taken this morning from the wind-shaken webcam on the 102nd floor of the ESB. Anyone spot a digital TV broadcast antenna up there?


----------



## George Thompson

There are three wide band, flat panel, master antennas for digital and analog transmitters up at the top. The antennas just see RF and do not care how it is modulated. Maybe Times photographer Jeff Lyons can get some closeups of the panels..... Jeff.

GT


----------



## Paperboy2003

But George, have you heard anything about timeline. Do you think, from what you know, that ABC could be up in a matter of weeks at Conde? Is NBC still shooting for ESB now in March / April? You're our 'man in the know' and we'd all like to hear whatever you could tell us.


Thanks George,


Doug


----------



## beatles6

I spotted the antenna for the first time as I drove north on the FDR this morning. It looks like a miniature version of the antenna that was on the WTC tower.


----------



## Infominister

I'm two blocks away on the 29th floor and can see it from my window. They've made a lot of construction progress in the past few months. There's still a crane up there, but it looks just about ready to fire.


----------



## John Chu

Here's another photo of the antenna-- I just took this looking out from my building just three blocks away...

http://homepage.mac.com/johnchu/antenna.jpg 


This represents the future of my free OTA HDTV viewing in the NYC area...


----------



## Paperboy2003

While looking at the pretty pictures is nice, I'd much rather try to find out when they'll be flipping the switch on this puppy!!!! How can we find out if the abconline site is accurate with the early Nov. date??


----------



## cgardias

Do you guys think that I will be able to get the ABC signal once it goes live in Ossining, Westchester county? I can now get CBS & FOX with my little RS indoor antenna.


----------



## George Thompson

The Metropolitan Television Alliance recently named WNBC's Frank Comerford chairman of the coalition of New York City television stations working to build a new TV tower to replace the one destroyed atop the World Trade Center. Frank will oversee the negotiations and planning for the new Freedom Tower to be constructed on the WTC site

GT


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *The Metropolitan Television Alliance recently named WNBC's Frank Comerford chairman of the coalition of New York City television stations working to build a new TV tower to replace the one destroyed atop the World Trade Center. Frank will oversee the negotiations and planning for the new Freedom Tower to be constructed on the WTC site
> 
> GT*




Thanks George, but do you have anything substantive regarding the topic at hand.....ABC-dt return to the airways in the near future? Freedom tower won't be up for at least another 3 years, and I while it's nice they are planning, perhaps Frank Comerford could work on getting his signal back on NOW!


----------



## kcn823

Is this good news? NBC doesn't seem to be making any effort to get there digital signal back up.


----------



## John Tuohy

Was Enterprise in HD on upn in NYC ? I would imagine not because upn is a sub channel of fox but I figured I would ask.


Thanks


----------



## trekkerj

no. (appropriately answered by someone with the login of trekkerj).


----------



## Bryan1701HD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *Thanks George, but do you have anything substantive regarding the topic at hand.....ABC-dt return to the airways in the near future? Freedom tower won't be up for at least another 3 years, and I while it's nice they are planning, perhaps Frank Comerford could work on getting his signal back on NOW!*



Let's give George a break! He gives it to us straight when he has the facts and is free to tell us. I, on the other hand, have information that they're putting a 500 ft. tower on Lady Liberty's torch. It is a great location, isn't it?


----------



## gmyron

good call, give George a break, on the other hand, what information do you have about the Statue?


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kcn823_
> *Is this good news? NBC doesn't seem to be making any effort to get there digital signal back up.*



It's obvious that NBC has no real interest in HD. They're programming shows this as well as their "interest" in getting HD back up in the N.Y. Metro area. I find it shocking that a major network like NBC is so apathetic when it comes to cutting edge technology. A broadcast leader they're not.


----------



## Bryan1701HD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by gmyron_
> *good call, give George a break, on the other hand, what information do you have about the Statue?*



As you can see from this photo, construction is almost complete. Maybe George knows which stations will use the new tower...


----------



## gmyron

LOL, good one, you got me!!


----------



## MLM

Normally my WCBS-DT reception is very clean. But during this afternoon's Jets game it broke up continually.


Anyone know why this should happen from time to time?


----------



## jscnyc

im not at all an expert, but from what i learned from posing this question. alot has to do with the source, transmission and reception. some where along those lines cbs may have prob. i noticed this also thru my cable box and ota, rare for cbs. on the other hand tarzen looked great in hd, rare for the wb where i live.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Normally my WCBS-DT reception is very clean. But during this afternoon's Jets game it broke up continually.
> 
> 
> Anyone know why this should happen from time to time?*


----------



## cpto

My main--actually my only--concern is whether the reduced transmision power and reduced height will allow me to receive ABC here in Morris county.


Does anyone know where there may be picture profiles showing the expected reach of the new ABC-DT tower? The ones shown for CBS-DT three or four years ago were pretty accurate.


Thanks.


Rick


----------



## trekkerj

We're still not even sure if and when they will begin broadcasting. Nothing has been confirmed, and their website says they want to provide coverage to the entire area.


----------



## BrettR

How far can the NYC digital channels can be picked up, as of now? Just wondering if they can reach 60 miles out of the city, as in the Princeton area and further south where their analogs can be picked up.


----------



## pepijn

I was watching the encore presentation of Skin on FOX the other day, and for fun I thought I'd check to see how the DTV feed looked since our cable company's "digital" cable PQ is quite abominable. To my surprise, the show was shown in a full 16:9 aspect ratio and what I'm guessing was 480p, the standard for FOX right now. My Samsung T151 indicated an SD feed, as opposed to HD stuff on CBS and PBS which gets labeled as HD. Is FOX trying something out here, and should we be watching out for more of their shows to be shown in a tentative sort of HD? Whatever it was, the PQ was 10x better than what I am getting with my current cable provider, so I'm happy.


----------



## MLM

Fox has been showing Boston Public like that for some time.


They did the world series in 16:9, but at less than 480p to my eyes. They are doing many Giants games the same way.


----------



## Paperboy2003

Cpto,


I was thinking if I cannot get ABC out of the city, I might switch to a CM 4228 and try to pull it out of PA. I would only hope that once it comes up it will be able to be received by Morris Cty. One would also think that there would be a better chance in winter because reception always seems to be better once the leaves are off the trees.


Doug


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pepijn_
> 
> I was watching the encore presentation of Skin on FOX the other day, and for fun I thought I'd check to see how the DTV feed looked since our cable company's "digital" cable PQ is quite abominable. To my surprise, the show was shown in a full 16:9 aspect ratio and what I'm guessing was 480p, the standard for FOX right now. My Samsung T151 indicated an SD feed, as opposed to HD stuff on CBS and PBS which gets labeled as HD. Is FOX trying something out here, and should we be watching out for more of their shows to be shown in a tentative sort of HD? Whatever it was, the PQ was 10x better than what I am getting with my current cable provider, so I'm happy.



That's intriguing. I get Fox DTV via cable on both Time Warner and RCN. Believe both are 480p and widescreen (when WS is available). If you aren't referring to Cablevision, perhaps I'm misinterpreting something in my cable delivery. --John


----------



## Paperboy2003

Rick,

I would also have to think that if we're able to get Fox and Cbs consistently, we should be able to pull in ABC. While the tower is going to be lower, I would have to think that it will still make it out the 25-35 miles where we are. What point would it be for ABC to do it if they cannot cover say a 45 mile circle?!


Doug


----------



## Paperboy2003

People on other treads have sometimes commented on calling the control room, or engineers for a certain station when they had a question or when something was supposed to be in HD but wasn't. Does anyone know any names or phone numbers of people at ABC. I have no problem taking the time to give a call to see if early November is still a possibility. As I mentioned in a previous post, if early November was still a possibility, one would think that we would have picked up on some of the testing that would have to be done. Post a number or name and I'll be happy to place a call and report back to everyone my findings. If no one knows of a name then tell me the 'title' of a person I should ask for and I'll go hunting.


Just a thought....


Doug


----------



## trekkerj

ABC7 Main Station Number

212.456.1000


from the 7online web site. I assume you could call and get transferred. IF you call, let us know if they tell you anything useful.


----------



## Megahurts

They just told me to start watching for test paterns if not programming from WABC-DT on or before November 1st. They finally got fed up with CBS and ESB for putting up too many hurtles to jump over. 4 Times Square also made a sweetheart deal. If CBS hadn't played hard ball, (ESB is not totally innocent), maybe all the stations would be on by now......

Nice going guys.


----------



## JoeCraw

IS THIS TRUE!?!?


Can anyone confirm that the New York ABC control room said to start watching for a signal starting Nov 1st.


Not that I don't trust you, but this would be the best news I have heard since WPIX came on-line this past spring.


MNF is HD next month..................That's cool!


Joe


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Megahurts_
> *They just told me to start watching for test paterns if not programming from WABC-DT on or before November 1st. They finally got fed up with CBS and ESB for putting up too many hurtles to jump over. 4 Times Square also made a sweetheart deal. If CBS hadn't played hard ball, (ESB is not totally innocent), maybe all the stations would be on by now......
> 
> Nice going guys.*



You mean, you just picked up the phone and asked? And they answered and told you all that? Who would have thought?! And poor George Thompson spends all that money on drinks for his contacts







. Nice job, Megahurts.


----------



## kcn823

Please Megahurts, tell us you're not kidding.


----------



## George Thompson

Gee, that seems to confirm what I heard through the grapevine too..... (Target Date)

Nice job Megahurts.

( I don't buy all those rounds, I receive them too!)

I think I also heard that the GM at WCBS came from their major competitor in the market. Could that mean that he knew the financial status of that station and put the screws to them (and everyone else)?

GT


----------



## JoeCraw

That is the confirmation I needed!!!!


MNF in HD here I come


Joe


----------



## Paperboy2003

Thanks for calling Mega.....I'm glad I spurred you to action!





Doug


----------



## Paperboy2003

OF course the buzzkill will be that once it starts up I won't be able to receive it without erecting a 300 foot tower off of my roof!


I guess I'll have a feeling in less than a week!


Doug


----------



## trekkerj

If any one gets any info on the signal strength and channel (I assume it's still 45?), please post that too. I also hope Morris county isn't too far.


As, it goes without saying, as soon as someone notices something on ABC-DT, post it here!!!


----------



## lomax

looks like I am in the Conn. DMA forever now!!! I am at 65 miles Moriches area, does anyone think I can get WABC-DT NYC form here?


I still have no WB, and am waiting on WCTX to do HD. Was hoping I could put the rotor to rest.


----------



## Linux23

OMG, this is great news. The only problem I have is that I only have 1 PC for HDTV recording, so i'm gonna have to come up with something.


----------



## Infominister

A well-placed source in WABC engineering told me that the initial power will be "just a few decibels lower" than that of WCBS-DT and WNYW-DT, and that signal strength will be raised further later on.

I also asked about the likelihood of getting an adequate signal in northern Westchester, to which he replied that it shouldn't be a problem -- notwithstanding possible terrain and foliage issues. WABC-DT will remain on Channel 45, with the possibility that weak tuners might have a problem with the adjacent Fox/UPN stations on Channel 44. But, anyway, it's looking good for high def' Monday Night Football next Monday in the great land of Metro NYC!

Now, we've just got to wait for WNBC to get its act together. Of the major commercial broadcast networks, they'll be the only ones still out in the digital cold.


----------



## trekkerj

Yeah, why did they pick 45, with 44 right next to it? Should be interesting, I look forward to trying my Sammy T151 on ch 45 in the near future.


----------



## Paperboy2003

" it's looking good for high def' Monday Night Football next Monday in the great land of Metro NYC!"


Just be careful with your expectations. If they start testing on the first, it's not a sure thing that you'll be watching TV by the third. Would be nice, and time will tell.


Now what do we do about NBC.....probably gonna have to wait a while for that one!


Glad to hear that ABC is finally coming to fruition!


Doug


----------



## DAVE2

It will be so much easier to record hd now that i don't have to keep moving my antenna everytime I want to record abc. I have been rotating my antenna to Connecticut for abc, via channelmaster rotor.


Everytime I would move it I would forget to move it back, and then lose my csi recordings on cbs.


Anyway this helps me only a little since I watch NBC 90% of the time, ER, thirdwatch, friends, whoopi, will and grace. I don't really care for Raymond on ABC, and since I lost my Giants season tickets, I have not really watched too much football.



dave


----------



## fourthstooge

Now why does it sound like GT was holding out on us. I mean I understand the need to keep certain info confidential, but if MEGA-wattshisname can simply make one call and get a straight answer from the source, why couldn't GT let us know what he heard. In this case, I don't see what the big secret was.


----------



## Scott G

Has anyone gotten a firm date as to when the testing at least will start ?


Scott


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fourthstooge_
> *Now why does it sound like GT was holding out on us. I mean I understand the need to keep certain info confidential, but if MEGA-wattshisname can simply make one call and get a straight answer from the source, why couldn't GT let us know what he heard. In this case, I don't see what the big secret was.*



I would say give the guy a break! From what I have read he's already gotten himself into a bind by posting inside information, so I don't blame him for not posting something he hears through the grapevine. After all, a lot of the time this stuff doesn't pan out anyway. As for ABC, I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## wward

There are no firm dates for WABC-DT and WABC has not provided any updated information other than that blurb on the website which is nothing more than a place holder.


As for Mr. Thompson and others that post to this forum that work in the industry some of their information (unless published) is confidential and probably should not be shared with the public unless their employers and other broadcasters do not find issue with relaying such info.


So it is not his fault if he can not relay any info other than what is common knowledge to industry insiders. I feel a little gratitude (not veil criticism) is due to Mr. Thompson and others in the industry who decide to take time out of their busy day to update folks on the inner workings of the New York City area digital debacle.


----------



## pabuwal

Just wanted to say I appreciate the efforts of George Thompson.


This has been a difficult situation due to 9/11, and stations finding it difficult to work together to accommodate the greater good of the viewers.


Now, if WB 11 can just move back to their main channel, the NYC state of DT would be better than Philly.


Go figure!


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *I would say give the guy a break! From what I have read he's already gotten himself into a bind by posting inside information, so I don't blame him for not posting something he hears through the grapevine. After all, a lot of the time this stuff doesn't pan out anyway. As for ABC, I'll believe it when I see it.*



So, I'm not sure I follow. . . .why exactly does everyone in this forum rely on George for "inside information" if he's reluctant to give it?


Maybe I just don't have the understanding and patience for the bulls--t politics, but I still don't see what the big secret is - - - even if it doesn't pan out, so what? All he has to do is qualify it with a disclaimer.


I don't mean to beat the guy over the head, but looking back over this thread, he was so conspicuously quiet after being asked more than once about the status of the new antenna. It's kinda cold to totally ignore someone who is asking you a direct question, George.


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *I would say give the guy a break! From what I have read he's already gotten himself into a bind by posting inside information, so I don't blame him for not posting something he hears through the grapevine. After all, a lot of the time this stuff doesn't pan out anyway. As for ABC, I'll believe it when I see it.*



So, I'm not sure I follow. . . .why exactly does everyone in this forum rely on George for "inside information" if he's reluctant to give it?


Maybe I just don't have the understanding and patience for the bulls--t politics, but I still don't see what the big secret is - - - even if it doesn't pan out, so what? All he has to do is qualify it with a disclaimer.


I don't mean to beat the guy over the head, but looking back over this thread, he was so conspicuously quiet after being asked more than once about the status of the new antenna. It's kinda cold to totally ignore someone who is asking you a direct question, George.


----------



## fourthstooge

sorry for the double post


----------



## JoeCraw




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fourthstooge_
> *So, I'm not sure I follow. . . .why exactly does everyone in this forum rely on George for "inside information" if he's reluctant to give it?
> *



Because, for a couple of years now, George has given us accurate and timely updates about the progress of digital TV in NYC. There have been a few others that have added 'inside' info to the forum, but no one has been as consistant and correct.

I am sure he had his reasons to be a little hesistant with this story, but he confirmed it pretty quickly.

Not that George needs defending, but I thought you should know why we rely on him.



Joe


----------



## fourthstooge

OK, if you say so.


----------



## antneye

Hey guys. I was psyched to discover this thread. I am in East Islip Long Island. 41 miles from ESB. I have a RS 15-2160 UHF only antenna. I presently get CBS and FOX at 69% on my Samsung TS-160. I do not get WPIX at all.


I have 2 questions:


1) Is there any info on when WPIX will ramp up signal or go back to there uhf channel? I imagine i could get them with my uhf only antenna if they simply up the juice, but i would be happier if they went back to uhf also.


2) ABC, CBS, and FOX are listed as yellows for me on antennaweb. Since I am getting FOX and CBS beautifully, is it safe to assume that i will get abc too? I guess i will find out soon enough, but i am running out of time to return my antenna and am trying to figure out if i should sit tight or go larger.


----------



## DAVE2

antneye


Maybe you should consider switching to the huge vhf/uhf antenna from radio shack. it has a good uhf antenna on it and you should still be able to pull cbs and fox. I don't rember the model number, but it is 13' long.


Abc is anybodys guess right now. As of last night it still was not on.


dave


----------



## antneye

Dave,


I am trying to avoid having that monster antenna on my roof. There is a larger UHF only that I can go to which is still nowhere near as big as the RatShack UHF/VHF antenna. I want my Hd, but as unobtrusively as possible. I get excellent signal on what I have for CBS and FOX. I am not going to put a monster on my roof just to get WPIX which should eventually come in on what i have when they are at full power. If ABC doesn't fly, then I have to make a change, but not just for WPIX.


I checked my receipt and my antenna was purchased on 10/18/03.....30 days from then is 11/17/03. I hope they are running by then so i can make the right decision.


----------



## Chriš2

antneye- I'm about 40 miles out in CT and using the same RS antenna. I can't get WPIX either. It's got to be a power issue. I can get ABC out of New Haven (VHF channel 11) just fine, and it's about 25 miles away. In fact it comes in strong enough that I can keep the antenna pointed towards the ESB for CBS and FOX, and still get no dropouts on ABC. I'm sure if WPIX just cranked up the juice you would receive it fine.


----------



## JoeCraw

I am about 30 miles from the ESB and get WPIX with a signal strength in the low 60s with my RCA DTC-100.


I have a roof mounted, Radio Shack UHF/VHF antenna with Radio Shack amplifier.


Another 10 miles might be a deal breaker, but you could try a VHF antenna with an amplifier.



Joe


----------



## wward

In an effort to quell the rampant speculation concerning the situation with WABC I am in the process of speaking with a couple of individuals at the network and station who would know one way or the other what's going on.


If there is something that is worth reporting and that can be reported I will post it immediately. Please do not send me notes every other day asking for info as soon as I hear something I will post it.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *In an effort to quell the rampant speculation concerning the situation with WABC I am in the process of speaking with a couple of individuals at the network and station who would know one way or the other what's going on.
> 
> 
> If there is something that is worth reporting and that can be reported I will post it immediately. Please do not send me notes every other day asking for info as soon as I hear something I will post it.*



The information I conveyed yesterday came from a very senior person in engineering at WABC. Short of an exact time of day that digital broadcasting will commence, I'm not sure how much more information you're going to get out of them.


----------



## wward

s2silber


First off my statement was not a direct attack on you or anyone else, I may come back with exactly what you said or maybe more I thought the point of this thread was to report as much factual information as possible.


The more folks that can present factual information the better at least in my opinion.


----------



## Paperboy2003

I think the great philosopher Rodney King said it the best.....


"can't we all just get along?!"


----------



## chingko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Short of an exact time of day that digital broadcasting will commence,*



it would be cool even if it's just approximate time to start the broadcast test. i'm tired of climbing up the attic and rotating between philly and ny. plus abc philly is doing multicasting...sucks.


----------



## Infominister

As per my previous post, they could go online as soon as this Saturday. In any case, two different engineers I've spoken to at WABC were cautiously confident about being on air by MNF.


----------



## DAVE2

Are you ready for some FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## WalterK

Check out the story on fybush.com about 4 Times Square. Upon touring the site last week Scott says he viewed the WABC DT equipment being assembled for a 11/1 lauch date Also he said the WFUT 53.1 is transmitting from that location!! So anyone who wonders if they will get 7.1 can try 53.1 and if they get that they are sure to recieve WABC-DT Ch 45. My only question is 53.1 on from the 385 foot tower yet??or the temp antenna,either way I get it fine here on Staten Island.


----------



## vruiz

What the heck is WFUT?


----------



## vruiz

Never mind. I just found out it's Telefutura, a spanish network, and I get it loud and clear! I guess I'm set for WABC.


----------



## antneye

i am seeing wfut's analog signal (68), but not their digital....and they come from same spot. Is it possible that the Digital is a low power signal? I'm gonna be pissed if i dont get abc


----------



## BuzaidC

I do not get 53 here in Westchester. I think it is low power. According to the FCC web site, WFUT has a STA to operate at 3.5KW but I am not sure how accurate that is or even what it means. All I know is that it registers anywhere from 10 to 20 on my Hughes E86 signal meter and I get no picture. I am a little more than 20 miles north of mid town. I do get their 68 analog station though.


----------



## sbonaparte

After WABC-DT is up and running and the people are thanked does someone want to start a "WPIX-DT needs to be UHF" thread?


I though there VHF implementation was temperary and on some type of shared antenna or something.


Does anyone know what there turnover dates are or if they have dates? I have sent emails from there website from there "If you are receiving our HD signal post your feedback" http://wb11.trb.com/about/station/wp...story#dataform 


I am posting that I can't get it...


I don't know about you but I bought a UHF antenna because it was suggested and smaller for better distance than the combo's. I only want to receive HD OTA everything else comes via Directv.


----------



## JoeCraw




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sbonaparte_
> *After WABC-DT is up and running and the people are thanked does someone want to start a "WPIX-DT needs to be UHF" thread?*



Don't be too hard on WPIX. They should be commended for even putting up a temporary fix while waiting for a better, long term, "temporary fix".











> Quote:
> *I though there VHF implementation was temperary and on some type of shared antenna or something.*



It is temporary.

I believe they are supposed to be part of the combiner that is being installed in the ESB.

The fact that WPIX, a small, local station, was broadcasting a digital signal months before WABC and WNBC (maybe years for WNBC?) should not be forgotten. Of course, if you are out of there range, it doesn't help much. BUT, as least you know they are trying.

If you want to be pro-active, how about a nice letter to WPIX and a more aggressive approach to WNBC.

WNBC continues to give the impression they could care less if we ever get a OTA digital signal in NYC!!










Joe


----------



## RAVEN56706

When is ABC 7 dtv up on the air?


----------



## JoeCraw

The 'confirmed rumor' is by Nov 1st.


Joe


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sbonaparte_
> *After WABC-DT is up and running and the people are thanked does someone want to start a "WPIX-DT needs to be UHF" thread?
> 
> 
> I though there VHF implementation was temperary and on some type of shared antenna or something.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what there turnover dates are or if they have dates? I have sent emails from there website from there "If you are receiving our HD signal post your feedback" http://wb11.trb.com/about/station/wp...story#dataform
> 
> 
> I am posting that I can't get it...
> 
> 
> I don't know about you but I bought a UHF antenna because it was suggested and smaller for better distance than the combo's. I only want to receive HD OTA everything else comes via Directv.*



I took some time to write a nice little letter on that submission form...but neglected to put my phone # in....so when I hit the send button the next page said to hit the back button and enter a phone #....so I go BACK to enter a phone # in and my WHOLE form is blank!!!










What a waste of time.....so the moral of the story is fill in every field if you plan on leaving a little letter in the comments section....or you'll probably lose the message you typed


----------



## dm145

I checked to see if I could get 53-1 and it was coming in very low around 12-15 percent. I hope ABC-DT comes in higher than that. The wait is killing me.


----------



## RAVEN56706

joe are you talking to me?


----------



## beatles6

I am in Staten Island with direct line of site to the ESB. I get WPIX in low 60's with ocassional dropouts. I get 100 on WCBS and WNYW. I'm sure if WPIX goes to high power that would top out at 100 as well. Hope the ABC signal from the Conde Naste building does as well.


----------



## Paperboy2003

While I don't know how accurate the link below is, I'm concerned that ABC might not reach that far out. The link, as you can see, show's cbs-dt @ 349 Kw, Fox @ 246Kw and ABC (once again this could just be a projection) @ 182 Kw. I get CBS and Fox at around 85-90 (with CM 7777 preamp) but I don't know if 182 (if true) will be enough to reach out around 30-35 miles from the City. Guess we'll all know soon enough!


Doug

http://www.tvradioworld.com/region1/...tion.asp?m=new


----------



## trekkerj

Another thread just posted says that there is now a signal on ch 45. Can anyone else confirm?


----------



## harican

Wabc-dt Is On The Air!

IT IS NOW 12:42 PM, THURSDAY, 10/30/03


mY RCA DTC100 IS DETECTING A DIGITAL SIGNAL ON CHANNEL 45, WITH A STRENGTH OF 0



LET'S WAIT AND SEE.


1:12 P.M., signal is completely gone,


LET'S WAIT AND SEE


----------



## Ken Ross

Unfortunately nothing out here on Long Island. I get very strong signals on CBS and Fox, but absolutely nothing to lock on to with ABC. Looks like I'll still be using my VHF antenna for ABC out of New Haven. Too bad.


----------



## trekkerj

The previous post already said the signal is gone, so don't worry if you want get any signal at the moment. Can you get ch 53? If so, it's much lower power than ch 45 should be, so that should be a better indication.


----------



## RAVEN56706




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by harican_
> *Wabc-dt Is On The Air!
> 
> IT IS NOW 12:42 PM, THURSDAY, 10/30/03
> 
> 
> mY RCA DTC100 IS DETECTING A DIGITAL SIGNAL ON CHANNEL 45, WITH A STRENGTH OF 0
> 
> 
> 
> LET'S WAIT AND SEE.
> 
> 
> 1:12 P.M., signal is completely gone,
> 
> 
> LET'S WAIT AND SEE*




can anyone else confirm this???


----------



## chingko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> 
> While I don't know how accurate the link below is, I'm concerned that ABC might not reach that far out.



I wonder if the information from that link is from a couple of years ago. Recall that in 2001, all the NYC stations (2,4,5,7,9,11,13) were transmitting in digital. This link even shows NBC-DT at 178 kW and they're not even up so is this projected or old info? I think it's old info.


Boy, those were the days. I was able to get all these 7 stations from Morris County with my double bowtie. First HD broadcast from ABC-45 was NYPD Blue, Jan 2001. I think NBC-28 was either Leno or Crossing Jordan. And rodmanbra was a famous entity here...heheh.


----------



## jscnyc

I hope so, im waiting and watching 10 miles in s bklyn. getting nadda on 45,53,7. god speed


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by harican_
> *Wabc-dt Is On The Air!
> 
> IT IS NOW 12:42 PM, THURSDAY, 10/30/03
> 
> 
> mY RCA DTC100 IS DETECTING A DIGITAL SIGNAL ON CHANNEL 45, WITH A STRENGTH OF 0
> 
> 
> 
> LET'S WAIT AND SEE.
> 
> 
> 1:12 P.M., signal is completely gone,
> 
> 
> LET'S WAIT AND SEE*


----------



## trekkerj

Really? I get 53 from 30+ miles out in Morris County. I wonder if they temporarily took it down to do some work on the facilities there?


----------



## Paperboy2003

Trekkerj, you get 53? I don't in Randolph. What channel is 53 mapped to? I looked around and could not find it. I wonder if I need to do a re-scan to remap things and find any 'new' signals?!


Doug


----------



## trekkerj

I'm in Morris Plains. I am using the radio shack doublebowtie. I think it's 53-1. It's not the strongest, but usually I can get it by tuning to 53 and moving the antenna around. Usually I can pull it in without a problem, but sometimes I can only get it if I have my preamp hooked up and the antenna closer to the window.


----------



## antneye

I am not an antenna expert, but i did some research on chanel 53 and ran across an article stating that they their digital transmission can serve their customers in NJ and westchester. Is it possible that their transmitter is directional and therefore those of us on the long island side wouldnt see it?


i am 41 miles away (East Islip,NY). CBS & fox come in at 69% on samsung TS-160. I get no drops.....all this with a 15-2160 UHF only Rat Shack antenna. I better see ABC or im gonna be mighty pissed!


----------



## kcn823

Has WPIX's signal changed since August? I was able to get it 20 miles out on Long Island on channel 11-1 and I would also get a picture on 70-1 (I think). Then in September I turned my antenna towards New Haven to try and get ABC. Today in anticipation of ABC-DT NY coming on, I turned my antenna back towards NYC but don't get any signal from WPIX. I also changed my antenna from a channel master to a RS 190. Any thoughts?


----------



## WalterK

Here on Staten Island it is on right now!!! Signal strength here withHD200 is full scale and in full DD5.1!!!Looks Great!!!Antenna is UHF beam on roof towards NYC....


----------



## kcn823

I'm getting ABC-DT here in Freeport, Long Island. Signal 93-100. All I can say is YES !!!!


----------



## Infominister

Just spoke to someone in WABC engineering. He said they are on right now in testing mode and -- if all goes well -- they'll remain on!


Let's hear some more reports from Metro New York TV Land about who is and isn't getting reception.


----------



## kcn823

I have a feeling alot of people in the NY area are going to be watching Threat Matrix tonight.


----------



## jaypb

MY CM4228 with CM7775 pre-amp (via A Hughes E-86) is facing PHILLY and picking up ABC 45-1 with a signal strength of 77-83! Dropout Free!


Signal must be pretty strong then ?!?!?!


----------



## dapope

Looks great here in brooklyn


----------



## Infominister

Okay. Let's here from some foks in some of the more distant reaches of the NYC metro area.


----------



## DAVE2

you guys are making me want to run home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its 5:30 and I got another half hour of work. GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!


(you can see I am working real hard)


dave


----------



## WalterK

Even though they are sharing the same site at Conde Naste building I find -45.1 much stronger than 53.1 FUT !! So people testing may get 45.1 and not 53.1,as a matter of fact it is really barreling in here on Staten Island as good as or better than CBS and Fox !!!!


----------



## JoeCraw




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kcn823_
> *Has WPIX's signal changed since August? ......... Any thoughts?*



What receiver do you have?

I remember having a problem this summer with not being able to tune WPIX. I had the Off-Air feature disabled. It seems the RCA DTC-100 did not see WPIX with this setting. Once I enabled it I got WPIX on 11 & 75.


Joe


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DAVE2_
> *you guys are making me want to run home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its 5:30 and I got another half hour of work. GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> (you can see I am working real hard)
> 
> 
> dave*



See you on the unemployment line....though not during HD hours!


----------



## jscnyc

I GOT IT BABY, WABC-DT 45 HERE IN S. BROOKLYN N.Y. yeah baby. i cant beleive it!! i had to shout. thanks


john


----------



## dapope

Cant beleive im pointed at philly and ABC is booming in .


----------



## kcn823

Joecraw, I have a toshiba 3000. I don't watch much on WPIX, just curious if something changed from late summer to now.


----------



## jscnyc

wabc-dt AS I CAN SEE IT IS BROADCASTING 3 CHANNELS 7.01, 7.02 & 45 7.02 IS A sd CH.


john


----------



## trekkerj

Getting it in Morris County!!!


----------



## kcn823

I'm getting ABC-DT audio from my front left and right speakers, but nothing from the center. Anyone else?


----------



## jscnyc

Oh man O'manashevitz, shes locked in and looking great, even the 7.02 sd 4x3 sub ch looks great, better than wor tv. its a beautiful thing and its MOTHER F'IN FREE!!!


john


----------



## trekkerj

So here's a question. If my tv supports 720p (and then converts it to 1080i), will I get a better picture with my STB on 720p or 1080i? It seems MUCH darker on 720p.


Also, what's with the 7-2 subchannel, is that just standard-def? Looks like 7-1 has the 5.1 flag on, but not 7-2, kind of like WPIX.


Threat Matrix it is!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *So here's a question. If my tv supports 720p (and then converts it to 1080i), will I get a better picture with my STB on 720p or 1080i? It seems MUCH darker on 720p.
> 
> 
> Also, what's with the 7-2 subchannel, is that just standard-def? Looks like 7-1 has the 5.1 flag on, but not 7-2, kind of like WPIX.
> 
> 
> Threat Matrix it is!*



WPVI-DT out of Philly (Channels 6-1 and 6-2 and 6-3) mulitcasts in HD and SD (6-1 is HD and 6-2 is stretched SD that supposedly goes to the cable company for their feed) and 6-3 is the radar channel---just started it a few days ago. There's a little back and forth going recently on the Philly thread about the evils of eating up the MBPS of the HD feed with a SD feed on 6-2 and a radar channel on 6-3.


I'm just happy that WABC has taken the initiative to get back online. I wish I could say the same for WNBC-DT


----------



## trekkerj

You'd think there would be more pressure on them now. They're the only big network not transmitting digitally in the #1 market in the country....There's plenty of space in 4TS for WNBC. I would also be happy if WPIX and WWOR moved over there so I could lock in better on WPIX and also get some HD out of WWOR. But I am thrilled to see 7-1 on my receiver, can't wait to see the HD quality (assuming they are going to pass HD tonight).


----------



## rlloydag

I am receiving WABC 45.1 at 100% in Bucks County Pennsylvania. I am about 64 miles away, near New Hope. I have a 4 bay bowtie on the roof and I am using the MyHD tuner card to receive.


I get 45.1 at a higher level than Fox (44.1) and about the same as WCBS (56.1).


Rob


----------



## RobSuk

It's the same story in north New Jersey. ABC is stronger than FOX and the same as CBS. I use CM 4-bay 3021 without a pre-amp and Zenith dtv1080.

Rob.


----------



## andyng

i only got 25% signal out of ABC 7.1..my receiver is zenith 520...antenna on top of 6 floor building in north bronx,(near bronx zoo)...cbs and fox come in strong at 85%...i don't use a pream for antenna...is it the reason? If so, what kind of pream i can get from rat shack and if i have to turn the antenna to a new direction?


----------



## Bryan1701HD

Looking great here in North Jersey as well. Signal quality is mostly around 96%, but it drops here and there without killing the picture. Maybe they're tweaking or perhaps my RS VHF/UHF antenna is a little off direction.


Congrats to WABC










WPIX is always strong here by the way. Depends on location because 125 watts isn't much between two other channels.


----------



## ftcheech

strong signal 7.1 & 7.2 (sony hd200) in saddle brook nj !!!


----------



## JoeCraw

I AM GETTING NOTHING!!


Is anyone further east on LI than Freeport getting WABC-DT??


I am in Plainview (Nassau/Suffolk border) and I am getting NOTHING!


How could PA be getting a signal and not central LI?

Is the Conde Naste antenna pointed toward NJ??


Joe


----------



## kcn823

JoeCraw, are you getting WPIX in Plainview?


----------



## BuzaidC

Here in mid westchester I am getting a signal that jumps around from 0 to 20 on my Hughes E86. Not enough to lock on. My equipment must be hooked up right since both CBS and Fox are 100 on the signal meter.


----------



## JoeCraw




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kcn823_
> *JoeCraw, are you getting WPIX in Plainview?*



Yes.


Joe


----------



## dm145

Strong signal here in Clifton. Volume is low. What's wrong with them. Just kidding, I will give them a few days to work out the kinks.


----------



## andyng

are you guys supposed to point the antenna to a new direction since cbs on ESB and WABC-Dt on time square? i got very strong signal on cbs and fox but only 20% on ABC...i'm in the bronx


----------



## jsprung

Here in Westfield NJ I am getting 7.1 and 7.2 with a $12 RCA indoor antenna.


----------



## Chriš2

In Norwalk CT (about 40 miles out), getting a signal around 30-35, has trouble locking on. CBS is at 76, FOX is at 70. Are they testing at fullpower? Luckily this far east we can pick up ABC out of New Haven CT.


Using:

Radio Shack outdoor UHF

ChannelMaster 7777 amp

RCA DTC-100 STB


FWIW- Thank You ABC for taking the initiative and getting on air!


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JoeCraw_
> *I AM GETTING NOTHING!!
> 
> 
> Is anyone further east on LI than Freeport getting WABC-DT??
> 
> 
> I am in Plainview (Nassau/Suffolk border) and I am getting NOTHING!
> 
> 
> How could PA be getting a signal and not central LI?
> 
> Is the Conde Naste antenna pointed toward NJ??
> 
> 
> Joe*



Selden, Exit 62 off of the LIE. Getting 75% signal, same as CBS and FOX. 7.1 and 7.2 coming in without breakups!


Now I can use my CT antenna to get NBC instead of ABC!


WOOO HOOO


----------



## Ken Ross

I'm getting a BOOMING signal now on WABC DT here in Plainview! It's coming in stronger than CBS, in fact the signal meter on my HD200 is pinned. However, I get nothing on Channel 53. The strange thing about WABC is I'm getting only 7.2 and no 7.1. But 7.2 seems to be the regular WABC programming. Are you guys still getting 2 channels (7.1 & 7.2)?


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *!
> 
> 
> Now I can use my CT antenna to get NBC instead of ABC!
> 
> *



Pat, what NBC are you trying to get in CT?


----------



## Paperboy2003

Looking great in Randolph as well...so much for the signal strength concerns!


Doug


----------



## kheflw

76% here in Fair Haven NJ on the Jersey Shore.

Sipowitz in HD!


hef


----------



## jscnyc

yes 7.01 & 02 here. 7.02 is indicated as SD 4X3 i guess sub ch and the 7.01 indicates hd. it looks real strong and impresive to me, i cant wait for the 1st time to view a native 720 sing. on a 1080 set.


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *I'm getting a BOOMING signal now on WABC DT here in Plainview! It's coming in stronger than CBS, in fact the signal meter on my HD200 is pinned. However, I get nothing on Channel 53. The strange thing about WABC is I'm getting only 7.2 and no 7.1. But 7.2 seems to be the regular WABC programming. Are you guys still getting 2 channels (7.1 & 7.2)?*


----------



## lsher

Im getting a great signal here in Jericho, LI (approx 35 miles out). Getting both 7.01 WABC-HD and 7.02 WABC-SD.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Pat, what NBC are you trying to get in CT?*



WVIT out of New Britian is about 20mi further than WTHN and is scheduled for 12/15. I still can't get WB or UPN (real UPN), so maybe I'll play around with WCTX out of New Haven, or WTXX out of Waterbury.


Ken,


You have any other recommendations? You think I have a shot for Philly going straight across the Ocean?


The way I'm set up right now is a CM4228 pointed to NYC going into a CM7777 Preamp, and a RS190 going into the VHF-only input of the preamp. Obviously I'd have to disconnect from the preamp to get the UHF stations from CT, (or buy another one).


----------



## andyng

you guys...I NEED HELP....i just disconnect my rooftop antenna and use my Silver sensor to check...to my surprise, the signal on WABC-DT 7.1 come on at 70%, my receiver show it at 720p and sound at 5.1 channel..it looks really good.

Please tell me what wrong that i can't get it with the rooftop antenna even i can pull in cbs and fox at 80%...

1. Is it because the antenna point at the wrong direction? i noticed i pointed Silver sensor at different direction than i do for CBS

2. Do i need a preamp?


----------



## Brian E.

Well Im getting 7-1 and 7-2 here in union county NJ. Im just using a silver sensor, but I can't find a good position to get both ABC, CBS and FOX at the same time, guess I'll have to keep playing. One interesting thing though, twice now switching from 7-1 to 7-2 has reset my STB. Its a samsung SIR-T165. Anyone have any idea what might cause this? Well for now I just deleted 7-2 since its just the same as 7-1 but it sure is curious. Also do you guys think that adding a pre amp would help boost my signal, or might it make things worse?


----------



## dm145

Brian E,


Not sure if this is just a coincidence, but after I was checking 7-1 and 7-2, I received a message that my access card had expired. I had to call directv, they had me reset my box. It did not help. I had a spare P4 card which I had to activate. Now I am back in business. Weird.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *In Norwalk CT (about 40 miles out), getting a signal around 30-35, has trouble locking on. CBS is at 76, FOX is at 70. Are they testing at fullpower?*



Whoa- did they up the juice recently? Now I'm in the high 40's here and locked, no dropouts in the last 10 minutes.


----------



## UroDoc

I'm getting WABC-DT 7.1 and 7.2 in Westbury LI with no problems.


However I'm a little puzzled. The PSIP for 7.1 says "HDTV Standard" and the image is 4x3 with black sidebars??? The PSIP for 7.2 says "SD 4x3" and the image is 16x9 ????


Are they stretching or zooming the SD image??? Do they have the signals reversed??? The 7.2 image was grainy but 16x9.


Did anyone else notice this???


It's great to have them back on the air.


One complaint. The double "7 WABC" bright white logo has got to be changed!!!! Take it out or at the very least make it a watermark (transparent)


Whoever spoke to the ABC technicians should mention the logo issue.


Welcome back ABC


----------



## Ken Ross

Anybody out there with a Sony HD200? The reason I ask is that I AM getting 7.1 but it's not mapping to the guide and therefore is only accessible by directly entering 7.1. Now 7.2 shows in the guide and is the channel that's available when you do a "channel up/down" selection but not 7.1. I'm wondering if there's something not quite right with the PSIP data or perhaps some incompatibility with the Sony and WABC's data at this point.


Pat, I'm not sure what kind of shot you'd have for Philly, but if you've got a rotor it's sure worth a try. My tuner is pausing now for channel 53, but not locking in. So it sees something but it just can't quite capture it yet.


BTW, interestingly, comparing ABC DT out of Ct with ABC DT out of N.Y., the N.Y. stretch station (7.2) is sharper but with less contrast than the stretch 8.1 out of New Haven. It will be interesting to see if there's any difference in the HD. It will also be nice to watch ABC DT without any dropouts!!!!


----------



## vruiz

I'm getting it loud and clear here in the Brooklyn-Queens border. It's coming in with about the same signal strenght as WCBS-DT and WNYW-DT. It's hard to tell the exact signal strenght since the Samsung 165 doesn't have a number reader but a progress bar.


My Samsung 165 also reboots when switching from 7-1 to 7-2. I deleted 7-2 to avoid problems.


Another pleasant surprise is that the channel scan also picked up WLIW-DT on channel 21-2 and 21-2. I had no idea I could receive these. Excellent!


----------



## JoeCraw

OK, quick update.


I pointed my antenna further north and I am now getting WABC-DT!!

It is only hitting a 50 on my RCA, with CBS and FOX upper 80s, low 90s.


Ken,


What antenna are you using to pull in CBS, FOX and ABC so well?

Did you adjust it in any way?


Joe


----------



## bs77

Im up here in the North bronx right below yonkers. I have a Channel master 4 bowtie up in my attic, I have a Hughes E-86. I get CBS and FOX at 100% but I am only receiving ABC (45) at Zero to 3%. The signal wont lock...I also am running a Radio Shack UHF/VHF amplifier ?? PLEASEEEE HELPPPPPPPPP. I want to Join the PARTY!!!


----------



## Ken Ross

Joe, it's a Channel Master hi gain UHF antenna on a rotor (I'm not sure of the model #, but it's a big boy). I didn't turn it at all since it was aimed at the ESB and I thought the spread of the signal by the time it got here would be O.K. WABC DT is actually stronger than CBS, which is already very strong.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Anybody out there with a Sony HD200? The reason I ask is that I AM getting 7.1 but it's not mapping to the guide and therefore is only accessible by directly entering 7.1. Now 7.2 shows in the guide and is the channel that's available when you do a "channel up/down" selection but not 7.1. I'm wondering if there's something not quite right with the PSIP data or perhaps some incompatibility with the Sony and WABC's data at this point.
> 
> 
> Pat, I'm not sure what kind of shot you'd have for Philly, but if you've got a rotor it's sure worth a try. My tuner is pausing now for channel 53, but not locking in. So it sees something but it just can't quite capture it yet.
> 
> 
> BTW, interestingly, comparing ABC DT out of Ct with ABC DT out of N.Y., the N.Y. stretch station (7.2) is sharper but with less contrast than the stretch 8.1 out of New Haven. It will be interesting to see if there's any difference in the HD. It will also be nice to watch ABC DT without any dropouts!!!!*



Ken,


I have the HD200 and it's mapping both 7.1 and 7.2. Found them right away, in fact. Maybe a quick reset will do the trick?


I agree that NY stretch looks better. I'll be flipping tonight on Threat Matrix and let you know my thoughts.


----------



## trekkerj

bs77, I would go get a Silver Sensor antenna and try that. Easier to fool around with, and if it doesn't help, you can easily return it. I've got an indoor antenna 35 miles away and get it no problem.


----------



## lomax

Welcome back!!!!


Getting high 80s way out here, only need WPIX and a real UPN can care less for NBC. Can not even remember any NBC shows it has been so long.


----------



## BuzaidC

I am a little further north than you (by the Tappan Zee) and have exactly the same problem you do: 100% on Fox and CBS but 0 to 10% on ABC. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact we are north of NYC. Everyone else that is getting a good signal seems to be either E, W, and S of NYC. I find it hard to belive that I have to re point my antenna if I already get CBS and FOX without a problem. By the way, I also have an E86 and a channel master 4 bow tie antenna.


----------



## andyng




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *Im up here in the North bronx right below yonkers. I have a Channel master 4 bowtie up in my attic, I have a Hughes E-86. I get CBS and FOX at 100% but I am only receiving ABC (45) at Zero to 3%. The signal wont lock...I also am running a Radio Shack UHF/VHF amplifier ?? PLEASEEEE HELPPPPPPPPP. I want to Join the PARTY!!!*



Hi BS77..i'm in north bronx too (fordham near Bronx zoo), getting cbs and fox no problem at 80%...i got only 20% out of ABC...however, using the Silver sensor pull ABC in at 80% no problem.

My receiver is zenith 520. I think i need to get a preamp or i have to point my rooftop antenna to a different direction.

If you want to get the Silver sensor, I can leave it to you. I bought it from Best buy last week.


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by BuzaidC_
> *I am a little further north than you (by the Tappan Zee) and have exactly the same problem you do: 100% on Fox and CBS but 0 to 10% on ABC. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact we are north of NYC. Everyone else that is getting a good signal seems to be either E, W, and S of NYC. I find it hard to belive that I have to re point my antenna if I already get CBS and FOX without a problem. By the way, I also have an E86 and a channel master 4 bow tie antenna.*



BuzaidC, I just hooked up my portable radio shack 2 bowtie antenna. I have moved the antenna all the way around 360 degrees and the highest I can get is 9%. Cbs and Fox come in just fine on this antenna 90%+. I think you are right If you are North you are screwed. Hopefully this is a temp prob...


----------



## Paperboy2003

Regarding the HD200, I would rescan the channels from the set up menu and that should do the trick!


----------



## bs77

ANDYNG, Please PM me the Info about the silver sensor... THANKS


----------



## andyng

another person here in North Bronx got the same problem, can someone call ABC engineering room and ask for more information?

Do we have any building that block signal from 4 Times Square? Obviously we got no problem pulling signal from ESB but 4 TS is lower tower


----------



## jscnyc

Threaat Matrix looks great, my 1080 hdtv does a great job w/the 720 sing. in my opinin. cant wait for MNF a live broadcast must look awesome. Thanks WABC for free digi tv like it oughta be.


john


----------



## dm145

to monitor status of NBC-DT.


----------



## bs77

There must be a problem with the antenna brodcasting to the north. It doesnt make sense that people as far away as Philly can get 7.1 and us in the North Bronx (Only 18 miles away) cant get anything!!!!


----------



## andyng

i second that BS77, i just send you a pm, if you have a cm 7777 preamp, we can trade with my silver sensor or some way


----------



## Ken Ross

Funny, my other HD200 is doing fine with 7.1 and mapping it correctly as well as my old Zenith DTV1080. I'll do that rescan on the other HD200. The HD out of Ct. and N.Y. look identical.


----------



## BuzaidC

The highest I can get on my E86 meter is 15%. It goes from 0 to 15%. Both CBS and Fox are 100%. Tried an indoor - it was no better.


Is anyone due north of NYC getting a good signal?????


----------



## bs77

Can somebody PLEASE shed some light why we cant get any signal in the North Bronx, Yonkers, and The TappanZee bridge area.... Its VERY FRUSTRATING seeing EVERONE Else Enjoying the PARTY, and we CANT Join in !!!!!!!!


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *The HD out of Ct. and N.Y. look identical.*



I concur. And NYC is a much stronger signal for me, even out here.


I have become fond of the WTNH Doppler, though...I may keep that.


I welcome myself back to the NY DMA.


----------



## RAVEN56706

WABC-DT yeeeeeaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh baby



I actually get a better signal then cbs. WOOHOO.


Never seen threat matrix but it looks hot.


95% signal reception. i am getting it from jersey city, nj


----------



## Ken Ross

Yeah Pat, that Doppler Radar is kind of fun during severe weather. Maybe we can get WABC to do that on 7.2!


----------



## stevehoff

ARGHH...the wife is still watching Survivor off the TIVO, but I'll be checking the deal from here in central Westchester as soon as it's done. I agree that there must be something seriously wrong if the signal is being picked up in Selden (SELDEN, for God's Sake!), LI and not in the Bronx or anywhere up near me. PLEASE, WABC, work this out.

Steve


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *There must be a problem with the antenna brodcasting to the north. It doesnt make sense that people as far away as Philly can get 7.1 and us in the North Bronx (Only 18 miles away) cant get anything!!!!*



My E86 and RCA indoor antenna was booming at 100 until just a few minutes ago when I started getting breakups - - - - now no breakups again. I'm north and east of the transmitter on the ny/conn border.


Everyone keep in mind that this is the early test stage and they'll be tweaking for a while. Keep posting so that any engineer types listening can see the feedback from us.


----------



## bs77

WOW!!! Up Here In North Bronx/Yonkers MY SIGNAL JUST Went up from 3% to 9%... Uh Ohh Spoke too soon, back down to 3% again!!!!!!!!! THIS REALLY SUCKS!!!!! .... As fourthstooge said, They are just testing so Hopefully this will be Fixed. Otherwise I might be FORCED to move to N.J........eeewwww!


----------



## jscnyc

sorry to see some of you guys not enjoying this. for what its worth im using a crappy terk on a 2 story 10 miles from the city and it seems real powerfull. i get 2,5,sub 9 wor four ch 11's 7.01 & .02 no rotating no fuss. hope you guys get it before MNF


John


> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *Can somebody PLEASE shed some light why we cant get any signal in the North Bronx, Yonkers, and The TappanZee bridge area.... Its VERY FRUSTRATING seeing EVERONE Else Enjoying the PARTY, and we CANT Join in !!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## antneye

East Islip Long Island here.....


My rat shack UHF antenna is pulling in ABC at 36%, no breakups at all. FOX and CBS come in at 69%. I guess 36 is enough because its simply purrrffection!


----------



## andyng

if i use a cm 7777 preamp, how much it will improve my ABC signal. right now i got it in the range of 10-15%. Also, cbs and fox come at 80%, will the use of a preamp will overload the receiver?


----------



## aaron.s

All you Westchester Guys --


I'm in Yonkers right next to Cross County Center using my Silver Sensor inside my living room and am getting 77% (on 7-1) on my Samsung SIR-TS160 with no dropouts!


Aaron


----------



## RAVEN56706




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *WOW!!! Up Here In North Bronx/Yonkers MY SIGNAL JUST Went up from 3% to 9%... Uh Ohh Spoke too soon, back down to 3% again!!!!!!!!! THIS REALLY SUCKS!!!!! .... As fourthstooge said, They are just testing so Hopefully this will be Fixed. Otherwise I might be FORCED to move to N.J........eeewwww!*



yeah ewww.. but i will be watching Monday Night Football at 95% and you will be watching ewwwww tv. LOL


----------



## stevehoff

Aaron,

You beat me by about 30 seconds. Here in Ardsley (Central Westchester, North of Yonkers; west of Tarrytown), I just scanned and I've got it too. Solid as a rock at around 80-90% on my Toshiba, using the antenna in my attic. The long wait seems to be over. Bravo WABC. Thanks.

Steve


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aaron.s_
> *All you Westchester Guys --
> 
> 
> I'm in Yonkers right next to Cross County Center using my Silver Sensor inside my living room and am getting 77% (on 7-1) on my Samsung SIR-TS160 with no dropouts!
> 
> 
> Aaron*



Hey Aaron Im only 5 minutes south of you and I am still getting 3-9%. Where exactly do you live ?? I'll bring the brewskies!! LOL... Seriously I am still a newbie to this OTA. Where can I get the Silver Sensor, and how much does it cost ??


----------



## jscnyc

was there a contest? did i miss something?


john




> _Originally posted by stevehoff_
> 
> *Aaron,
> 
> You beat me by about 30 seconds.*


----------



## aaron.s

bs77-


I live on Kimball Avenue within sight of the movie theater at the Cross County Center - watching on my 60" Sony Grand Wega II.


The Silver Sensor is aiming right towards the city (slightly southwest of me). You can get the Silver Sensor @ Circuit City (also at Cross County Center) for about $40.... BEST UHF antenna I've ever used - Radio Shack Double Bowtie included.


What antenna are you using and do you have it aimed towards the city?


Aaron


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aaron.s_
> *bs77-
> 
> 
> I live on Kimball Avenue within sight of the movie theater at the Cross County Center - watching on my 60" Sony Grand Wega II.
> 
> 
> The Silver Sensor is aiming right towards the city (slightly southwest of me). You can get the Silver Sensor @ Circuit City (also at Cross County Center) for about $40.... BEST UHF antenna I've ever used - Radio Shack Double Bowtie included.
> 
> 
> What antenna are you using and do you have it aimed towards the city?
> 
> 
> Aaron*



Aaron, I am using a Channel Master 4 bowtie. It is in my attic. I am getting 100% on Cbs and FOX therefore I dont understand why I am only getting 3-9% for ABC ???


----------



## stevehoff

You mean I don't get a Silver Medal for being the second guy in Westchester to get Ch 7 in HDTV?


----------



## aaron.s

bs77 -


I would try deleting WABC-DT from your channel list and do a re-scan to see if it can pull it in better.


Other than that - only thing I can think of is that you possibly have your antenna pointed directly at the Empire State Building -- and ABC is coming from the Conde Nast Building at 4 Times Square which is a little east of the ESB (a little to the left when pointing our antennas). Is your antenna in the attic on a rotor? Can its position be moved?


Aaron


----------



## jscnyc

definetly. if im right i think i was the 1st to post getting it in the metro areA. if im right i hope i get a cookie with my MNF.


J



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stevehoff_
> *You mean I don't get a Silver Medal for being the second guy in Westchester to get Ch 7 in HDTV?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## bs77

AaronS, ... My hand is the rotor!! and the kids are asleep so its a no go for the attic. I have hooked up my little rat shak 2 bowtie antenna. I can pull in CBS and FOX at 80-90%+ BUT I can only get as high as 18% for ABC after roating it 360 degrees. I guess I have to get the Silver Sensor, How big is it ??


----------



## sjf99

I didn't read the forum after lunch today but I tried it when I got home and to my surprise I was getting 45-1 and 45-2. I'm getting about 58 on my DTC-100 with no drop outs. I have my attic mounted RS 13' (?) antenna with a CM7777 (powered by the DTC-100) about 10 degrees to the south of the best position for CBS-DT and FOX-DT in order to get a better signal for WPIX-DT. I didn't try moving it yet. I have the following signals:


CBS-DT - 94

Fox-DT - 88

WPIX-DT - 58

ABC-DT - 58

53.1 - 52


I'll play with the antenna over the weekend.


When do the Giants or Jets play on MNF next?










Steve


P.S. It's been a long 25+ months but I can finally say it was worth the wait.


----------



## aaron.s

bs77-


It's pretty small - not bigger than the RS Double Bowtie - but the antenna sits horizontally vs. vertically like the bowtie. Actually it is quite an attractive antenna in my opinion.


Still - try deleting ABC from your channel list and do a re-scan first. Also try moving the antenna in the attic a little bit east (to the left as pointed towards the city) when you have a chance....


Aaron


Here's a link:

http://www.silversensor.com/


----------



## bs77

Thanks Aaron.s!!! tried the rescan, no good. I really appreciate your help, hopefully its just a minor adjustment to my attic antenna. If it works Ill buy you a pint of guiness at Rory Dolans on Mclean ave!! Thanks again.


----------



## andyng

bs77, i got my Silver sensor from best buy at 39.99...it's very small but very powerful antenna. It's the size of a book. I didn't use it because my landlord let me use one of the antenna on the roof of my building. If you want, i can let you have my silver sensor at 30.


----------



## bs77

Believe it or not I have this antenna!!! I bought it months ago on e-bay!! I only used it for a few weeks. Then I decided to go with the attic antenna because I thought that would be better!! I cant try it now though my wife just grabbed the remote!! Thanks to aaron.s for giving me the link so I could see what the silver sensor looks like. I just knew it as Zenith Hdtv antenna!!! Like I said I am still a newbie... thanks to all.....


----------



## SteveWinNJ

Same strong signal as CBS, no dropouts, here in Mahwah, NJ northern Bergen County/Suffern NY border. I'm using a Silver Sensor with no pre-amp!


----------



## bgut1

Here in beautiful Asbury Park, NJ I'm getting a 100 signal strength on my E86 with an attic installed Winegard HD9095P UHF yagi. Life is good. Now only if WPIX moved back to 33.


----------



## bs77

Andyng,


Did you say you were getting 80% on your silver sensor ?? I tried the silver sensor and I am having same problem of only 10%. I tried the antenna in both positions and got the same signal strength. I can get up to 79% for 44 (CBS) and 60% for 56 (FOX). I must have something blocking my signal from ABC. I am right near woodlawn cementary So I dont understand why this is. If I get 100% for CBS and FOX on my attic antenna I should get higher than 10% for ABC!! RIGHT ??!!


----------



## aaron.s

bs77-


Maybe the Conde Nast building being a little east is being blocked my something by your line of site - either that or perhaps you're having problems with multipath interference?


I would also suggest maybe unplugging your HD receiver overnight before you go to bed - maybe it will reset itself?


Aaron


----------



## antneye

what gives...now im getting no signal in east islip.....did they lower the juice?


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by antneye_
> *what gives...now im getting no signal in east islip.....did they lower the juice?*



Still same signal for me in Selden.


----------



## vruiz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sjf99_
> *When do the Giants or Jets play on MNF next?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Nov. 24, NY Giants at Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Dec. 1, Tennessee Titans at NY Jets


----------



## antneye

i'm now cycling between 0 and 20%. I was locked in with great pic at 39% for a while. I am not going to panic because i am sure that they are doing all sorts of tweaking since they just turned it on. I will have to keep an eye on it and see if it improves over next few days.


If this doesnt improve.....what are my options? I get CBS and FOX at 69 (although now they are att 77 since i lost abc) and ABC was at 39. Should i get a bigger antenna or simply install a pre-amp?


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aaron.s_
> *bs77-
> 
> 
> Maybe the Conde Nast building being a little east is being blocked my something by your line of site - either that or perhaps you're having problems with multipath interference?
> 
> 
> I would also suggest maybe unplugging your HD receiver overnight before you go to bed - maybe it will reset itself?
> 
> 
> Aaron*



will do...Thanks


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by antneye_
> *i'm now cycling between 0 and 20%. I was locked in with great pic at 39% for a while. I am not going to panic because i am sure that they are doing all sorts of tweaking since they just turned it on. I will have to keep an eye on it and see if it improves over next few days.
> 
> 
> If this doesnt improve.....what are my options? I get CBS and FOX at 69 (although now they are att 77 since i lost abc) and ABC was at 39. Should i get a bigger antenna or simply install a pre-amp?*



What are you using now?


----------



## antneye

rat shack 15-2160 uhf only antenna...they rate it for 75 miles.....i am 41 from towers. no probs with cbs and fox. don't get pix. I guess its too early in the game to draw a conclusion on abc.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by antneye_
> *rat shack 15-2160 uhf only antenna...they rate it for 75 miles.....i am 41 from towers. no probs with cbs and fox. don't get pix. I guess its too early in the game to draw a conclusion on abc.*



I'd just try to tweak a little if it doesn't improve. If you get CBS and FOX, you should get ABC. At our distance it's only a 2 or 3 degree difference. I've been getting a consistent signal from ABC all night. Maybe you're a couple of degrees off south of the ESB, which will be OK for CBS and FOX, but put you out of the game for ABC? Just brainstorming...


----------



## seldenpat

The GE building is 40ft taller than Conde Nast. ABC just showed how to GET THINGS DONE!!!


STEP UP TO THE PLATE, NBC!!!


----------



## antneye

i'm on the south shore and am simply aiming west. if things dont get better i can get on the roof on Sunday and play with the position to see if i can dial in abc. when i 1st put up antenna for fox and cbs i found that it didnt matter how much i rotated it, i stayed locked on cbs and fox, so i should have plenty of play. if that doesnt work i can always try a pre-amp.


I have a suspicion that they lowered the juice just enough to throw me out of wack. Georges original post a few days ago said they would come up at a power just lower than CBS and FOX and slowly increase it over time. if thats accurate then i should be okay since i was seeing great pic just a few hours ago.


----------



## yufeng

I am getting a solid signal here at Darien, CT. No drop outs so far.

I can't tell the strength since I have an old panasonic decoder. I am

using a RS double bowtie on the first floor family room.


----------



## bs77

Hopefully they will up the juice a lot!!, I now get only 10% In North Bronx/Yonkers...


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by antneye_
> *i'm on the south shore and am simply aiming west. if things dont get better i can get on the roof on Sunday and play with the position to see if i can dial in abc. when i 1st put up antenna for fox and cbs i found that it didnt matter how much i rotated it, i stayed locked on cbs and fox, so i should have plenty of play. if that doesnt work i can always try a pre-amp.
> 
> 
> I have a suspicion that they lowered the juice just enough to throw me out of wack. Georges original post a few days ago said they would come up at a power just lower than CBS and FOX and slowly increase it over time. if thats accurate then i should be okay since i was seeing great pic just a few hours ago.*



Good Luck. You'll be fine. Get yourself a $5 compass and confirm your readings from antennaweb.org. There should be a 4 degree difference between ESB (285) and CN (281). Just point in the middle (283) and ENJOY!


----------



## John Chu

Woo-hoo!


Just got home a half ago[after reading all of everyone's excited posts throughout the day about ABC]and quickly turned the set on.


Surprisingly enough, I didn't even have to twiddle my Radio Shack double tie at all --ABC pops right up on my Samsung t-150 on 7-1.


I was worried I would have to constantly turn the antenna each time I wanted to watch ABC which would have been a bit "annoying"


Right now I am getting ABC perfectly from out here in Woodside Queens. This is awesome. I will never pay for cable if I can help it.


This is way cool.


----------



## MrMartin

Thank you ABC!


----------



## wward

Ok here is the deal some of us are viewing a signal from WABC-DT it is a temporary test signal there is NO guarantee that WABC will be broadcasting Monday night football there is a power issue that should be resolved in about a week.


----------



## Linux23

Reporting from Jersey City, getting ABC-DT at 75%.



Nice Job ABC, now I just need to build a new PC so that I can record two HD streams at once.


----------



## beatles6

Coming in loud and clear in Staten Island. A 100 reading on my Hughes E86.


----------



## rChaz

Like several other posters with the Samsung T-165 STB, 7-2 (SD) causes the box to reboot, while 7-1 (HD) works fine including 5.1 Dolby sound and a strong signal.


Not sure if the 7-2 rebooting is caused by an incorrect broadcast setting or just a weak signal (although 7-1 is strong) - I occasionally experience the same reboot issue with a local PBS digital station (13-1/61) if the antenna is pointed in a certain direction.


Maybe this will just be while ABC is getting the kinks out...


----------



## BuzaidC

Last night I was getting 0 to 10% on ABC-DT. (I live in Tarrytown about a 1 mile north of theTappan Zee bridge, close to the east bank of the Hudson river). But, I checked the signal strength this morning (@5:30AM) and it was bouncing between 42 and 56. It did drop to zero every now and then. Did not get a stable picture for too long on 7-1 or 7-2. But, it was much better than last night.


I did not make any adjustments to my antenna and did not rescan or reset my Hughes E86. Maybe it will get better with time. I still get both CBS and Fox at 100%.


----------



## dm145

As of 7:24 AM, I no longer receive a signal. Hope they are still just testing.


----------



## baimo

They must have taken it down for a little while. It has been a long time in coming since the towers fell and we lost the signal. A few more days of adjustments is fine.

Screw the taliban!


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by BuzaidC_
> *Last night I was getting 0 to 10% on ABC-DT. (I live in Tarrytown about a 1 mile north of theTappan Zee bridge, close to the east bank of the Hudson river). But, I checked the signal strength this morning (@5:30AM) and it was bouncing between 42 and 56. It did drop to zero every now and then. Did not get a stable picture for too long on 7-1 or 7-2. But, it was much better than last night.
> 
> 
> I did not make any adjustments to my antenna and did not rescan or reset my Hughes E86. Maybe it will get better with time. I still get both CBS and Fox at 100%.*



Thanks BuzaidC, Funny when I checked this morning at about 4:30 am mine was still 3-9%. I could clearly see the Antenna when driving down the Deegan near the triboro this morning, so I think i just need to tweak my antenna slightly. I will check when I get home from work and after trick-or-treating with the kids. Thanks for your Info.... BS77


----------



## sr

I have the Panasonic DST50 and since last night, I lost the audio on channel 2. In fact I have a second DST50, and it also lost audio on channel 2, and neither receivers could pick up channel 7. All the other DTV stations are fine. I Have a Sony HD tuner, and it works fine on all channels, including 7. Does anyone know if CBS changed anything that could cause the loss of audio on a first generation HD receiver?


----------



## Paperboy2003

For those who are NOT getting a clear signal, I would be hesitant to adjust anything just yet. As Wward said above they are still in the testing stage. Conceptually, there is no reason to change anything in you set up until you know for sure that things are fine and no further adjustments will be made. It would be silly to climb up on roofs or into attics (especially those due north of the city). From the North it shouldnt be too hard to pick up ABC if you're already pointing south for CBS and Fox. Be patient and wait before going crazy and changing things, you might just have to change it back anyway!


Doug


----------



## wward

Still off the air as of about 9:50 AM


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kcn823_
> *I'm getting ABC-DT audio from my front left and right speakers, but nothing from the center. Anyone else?*



I first noticed the center channel missing during the local news, which was in SD. Was your CC out during HD programming (Threat Matrix) too?


----------



## RAVEN56706

They will only give full power when HD is on.


----------



## Infominister

As Ken H. suggested, let's continue this discussion in the new thread, "WABC-DT Is On the Air."


----------



## chingko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sr_
> *I have the Panasonic DST50 and since last night, I lost the audio on channel 2. In fact I have a second DST50, and it also lost audio on channel 2, and neither receivers could pick up channel 7. All the other DTV stations are fine. I Have a Sony HD tuner, and it works fine on all channels, including 7. Does anyone know if CBS changed anything that could cause the loss of audio on a first generation HD receiver?*



experienced the same thing. abc was loud and clear in hanover, morris county but with cbs, the audio would only be on for a second upon switching, then drop off completely with the dst50.


now if only nbc would also return, last night would have been threat matrix at 8, then csi at 9, then er at 10. fox had tru calling with the buffy babe but they're not hidef so they lose. anyway, still a historical day in ny dtv.


----------



## Paperboy2003

Does anyone know of anyone in the NBC engineering dept? They look really lame now!?


----------



## Infominister

Early next year is what I've been told by an engineer there. That could be as late as next Spring. WABC-DT leapfrogged the slow process of getting aboard the Empire State Building combiner for digital broadcasting by moving over and doing their own thing on the CondeNast building. It would have been nice if WNBC did the same thing on top of their own "GE Building," but I guess nobody thought of that.


----------



## Ken Ross

Probably because ABC cares more about HD than NBC. It's amazing to see a network that was once a technological leader become 3rd rate at best.


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *It would have been nice if WNBC did the same thing on top of their own "GE Building," but I guess nobody thought of that.*



Seems like that would have been perfect. Since it's their building, they wouldn't have had any hassles with the "landlord". It might even be taller than the Conde Naste. Anybody know?


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fourthstooge_
> *Seems like that would have been perfect. Since it's their building, they wouldn't have had any hassles with the "landlord". It might even be taller than the Conde Naste. Anybody know?*





> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *The GE building is 40ft taller than Conde Nast. ABC just showed how to GET THINGS DONE!!!
> 
> 
> STEP UP TO THE PLATE, NBC!!!*


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fourthstooge_
> *Seems like that would have been perfect. Since it's their building, they wouldn't have had any hassles with the "landlord". It might even be taller than the Conde Naste. Anybody know?*



The GE Building vs the Conde Nast Building 


GE seems to be a wee bit taller....but the Conde Nast has a spire that takes it up a wee bit higher....so lets say they are somewhat "comparable" in height ?!?!


----------



## George Thompson

GE is a "Condo Owner" in the "GE" building. Tishman owns and operates the building. Putting a tower on the building would have to go through so many city agencies it isn't even funny considering the Landmark status.

I don't know what's going to happen now.

Consider that one of the signees pulled out, someone(s) is going to have to pick up the slack. Renegotiate contracts? Are the contracts contingent on everyone signing on? This presents a real problem. Not WNBC's doing.

Also, all the stations still have microwave rooms on EBS for the news trucks in the city. EBS management might make it tough for them in upcoming contract talks. Lots to consider.

GT


----------



## antneye

George,


Can you shed any light on WABC's present status. It appears they are off air as of this morning. From my own personal experience in East Islip, I think they lowered their power in the evening because i suddenly lost pic at about 10:30 PM while others retained pic (maybe earlier, i checked at 10:30).


Can I safely assume that since i had a pic at about 8:30 last night that when they complete their testing and go full power i will be ok?


----------



## jackcs

Any news on the BEST HD OTA channel, PBS?


----------



## kcn823

Can a preamp cause me to get a worse signal? I live 20 miles from the city and was using a CM7777. I would get a 100 signal from CBS and Fox and in the 90's last night from ABC. But I could not get a signal at all from WPIX. Today after playing with it for a while, I removed the preamp all together and now get 100 signal from CBS, FOX and in 80's from WPIX.


The only way I would receive WPIX using the preamp was with the settings set to seperate UHF and VHF and the FM switch off and inputing the antenna into the VHF input. Hopefully when they turn ABC back on I'll be able to get a good signal without the preamp.


----------



## trekkerj

So George, what do you think will happen, say, by this spring? Is the ESB combiner going to be completed? Is it possible to more stations, including WNBC-DT might go over to the 4 Times Sq site? What about WWOR getting it's own HD going, or WPIX boosting it's signal and going back to 33? Seems like there's now a lot of space available on the new site, you'd hope someone besides just ABC would take advantage...


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jackcs_
> *Any news on the BEST HD OTA channel, PBS?*



Yes, WLIW-DT 22 coming in loud and clear from Garden City, NY!


----------



## George Thompson

Antneye, from what was posted there is a power issue up there in the transmitter suite at 4 Times Square. Could just be a distribution thing and have to have contractors put in subpanels. I haven't heard the results of the tests last night as far as tuning the xmitter. I hope that the pattern is correct and puts a null over the ocean instead of to the north. I assume the project manager and Dielectric thought of that and got orientation right. I assume that they are putting out a cardioid pattern and not wasting RF out over the water like the World Trade antennas.

As far as the combiner is concerned, I haven't a clue at this point. Spring was the earliest that Dielectric could put it in queue. If they would stop squabbling maybe something could be done. Too much politics to get into.

GT


----------



## antneye

George,


Forgive my ignorance, but does that mean that if i was seeing ABC for a little while last night then i should be able to see it again when the power issues are worked out? Remember, I lost my pic at about 10:00-10:30 and they were still on the air. I am on Long Island (South Shore, 41 miles from city)


----------



## Infominister

See my post in "WABC-DT is Back on the Air."


----------



## jscnyc

i didn't see ken's sugg. where is this thread? i heard theres no guarante for mnf. is it tech prob. i mean didn't they state nov.1. i invited half my office over for this! what a shmuck i am..oh well god giv it, god.....


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *As Ken H. suggested, let's continue this discussion in the new thread, "WABC-DT Is On the Air."*


----------



## kaiming

Does anyone pickup wpix in brooklyn? Can you do it with a UHF yagi? Thanks.


I know that they are vhf but they are a high vhf and I'm only 3-4 mi. from ESB.


----------



## Ed Barclay

Will this be WABC-DT's main transmitter site? Or are they still going to be on the Empire State Building combiner, and 4 Times Square will eventually be a back up site?


----------



## jscnyc

I GET 4 WB'S IN S.BKLYN. i just pointed my crappy terk to the city. but right now,or as of yesterday they are not broadcasting there digi ch. ill holler if you want when they resume


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kaiming_
> *Does anyone pickup wpix in brooklyn? Can you do it with a UHF yagi? Thanks.
> 
> 
> I know that they are vhf but they are a high vhf and I'm only 3-4 mi. from ESB.*


----------



## dapope

kaiming, yes you can pick up pix in brooklyn with uhf only


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by BuzaidC_
> *Last night I was getting 0 to 10% on ABC-DT. (I live in Tarrytown about a 1 mile north of theTappan Zee bridge, close to the east bank of the Hudson river). But, I checked the signal strength this morning (@5:30AM) and it was bouncing between 42 and 56. It did drop to zero every now and then. Did not get a stable picture for too long on 7-1 or 7-2. But, it was much better than last night.
> 
> 
> I did not make any adjustments to my antenna and did not rescan or reset my Hughes E86. Maybe it will get better with time. I still get both CBS and Fox at 100%.*



Hey BuzaidC, I was going to wait a few days but I couldnt resist. I went to my attic to tweak my Uhf antenna. I moved it about 2 feet counterclockwise and my signal jumped to 80%!! they only problem is the signal keeps going up and down from 50-90% and this is causing breakups ever few minutes. I guess this will fix itself when abc goes to full power! Thanks!!!


----------



## BuzaidC

Wow, great news. Glad to hear you are getting it. My signal is between 0 and 20 right now. I will try and move around my antenna (it is outside on the roof) tomorrow morning. I hope they are still broadcasting in the AM so I can see if it improves.

Thanks for the tip. Do you still get CBS and Fox at 100%??


----------



## bs77

Yes CBS and Fox still at 100% !!!!!


----------



## bs77

as of 11:00 p.m.... ABC is now Unwatchable. My signal is on a roller coaster, it s jumping up and down from 30% to 70%. Breakups every 3 seconds... Maybe they lowered the juice


----------



## andyng

hey guy....is 100ft cable run from the roof of a 6 floor building to my apt on 2nd floor too long? that means i need a preamp like cm7777? i have 10-20% on abc and 40-80% on cbs and fox...but cbs drop out very often...fox locks in fine


----------



## trekkerj

We need to pick a thread to talk about each topic. People are starting to post the same thing in two threads and it is getting redundant.


----------



## dm145

Maybe this thread has run its course. And once the ABC-DT issues are resolved, it may be time to start a new "Where's WNBC-DT and WWOR-DT" thread. Once those two are back and WPIX-DT is at full power all will be well in DTV land.


----------



## wojtek

My setup is a little unusual. I live on the Jersey waterfront with a direct view of Manhattan. I have a Zenith 420 receiver and no antenna at all. That is, I am only running a plain 6' antenna cable to my Zenith. The cable terminates with with one of those little black splitter boxes with a couple of spade lugs coming out of it. That's it. I put this box on top of one of my speakers. I am getting ABC-DT (7-1 and 7-2) at 80-90 strength, according to the little graphic on the Zenith. I can also pick up CBS-DT, Fox-DT (5-1 and 5-2), and PBS-DT (13-1, 13-2, 13-3) that way, all with close to 90 strength. No WPIX.


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by BuzaidC_
> *I will try and move around my antenna (it is outside on the roof) tomorrow morning. I hope they are still broadcasting in the AM so I can see if it improves.*



Hey BuzaidC, I just checked and My signal is going crazy this morning. It is up and down from 20-93%. I think I might have to tweak it a little more. I cant deal with it today, have to spend SOME time with the family. I might just wait a few weeks until ABC gets the bugs out, so you might want to wait also before climbing on your roof. Good Luck....


----------



## John Tuohy

Is it too soon to start complaining about NBC


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Tuohy_
> *Is it too soon to start complaining about NBC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



No!


Maybe this way they will get their s**t together before 2004 Olympics, which will be shot largely in HD by NBC. It will still be shown tape-delayed and full of sappy general-interest stories, but in HD nonetheless.


So, let the whining begin!


Can someone post a relevant phone number to call???


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *I think I might have to tweak it a little more. I cant deal with it today, have to spend SOME time with the family. I might just wait a few weeks until ABC gets the bugs out*



Well I couldnt wait, my compulsive disorder took over!! I decided to give it one more tweek. My 8 year old daughter was my lookout. I moved the antenna about 4 inches back clockwise and my daughter starting yelling 100% 100% we got 100%!! My heart was racing and iI threw my hands in the air!! I dare not touch the Holy antenna!! I ran down and it was true!! 100% on ABC 100% on FOX and 100% on CBS!!! My prayers have been answered!! The only trade off is I cant get 21.1 PBS anymore. But I now also can get 11.1 WPIX at 45%...


So ANDYNG and BUZAIDC, Get up to your roof and Tweak your Antenna's!! This is FANTASTIC!!! Now all I need to do is get a LIFE!!! Thanks to all


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *Well I couldnt wait, my compulsive disorder took over!! I decided to give it one more tweek. My 8 year old daughter was my lookout. I moved the antenna about 4 inches back clockwise and my daughter starting yelling 100% 100% we got 100%!! My heart was racing and iI threw my hands in the air!! I dare not touch the Holy antenna!! I ran down and it was true!! 100% on ABC 100% on FOX and 100% on CBS!!! My prayers have been answered!! The only trade off is I cant get 21.1 PBS anymore. But I now also can get 11.1 WPIX at 45% This is FANTASTIC, Now all I need to do is get a LIFE!!! Thanks to all*



LOL!


Now if only we can get NBC-DT and more HD programming.


I am sooooo tired of NTSC crappy, fuzzy PQ. We've been stuck with NTSC for too long.


But it seems that lately the networks have started viewing HD as a selling tool. So there is hope...


----------



## jscnyc

my opinion is that this thread covers it all. i dont see the help having individual threads for local ota ch. this one has it all and you just have to go to 1 place. but where ever you guys add a thread i follow since its pertaining to my area but i think they should go here, hate the clutter plus i hang hr often, lata buddies


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *We need to pick a thread to talk about each topic. People are starting to post the same thing in two threads and it is getting redundant.*


----------



## RAVEN56706

i like how abc is doing it. I am getting them at 95% whenever hd programming is on because i dont intend to watch sd under that station.


NBC should move their a$$es quick.


----------



## Ken Ross

I think the idea of the HD channel and the SD when no HD is being broadcast is great! Especially with the truly excellent PQ of the SD channel. This is unquestionably the best SD I've seen anywhere!


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *I think the idea of the HD channel and the SD when no HD is being broadcast is great! Especially with the truly excellent PQ of the SD channel. This is unquestionably the best SD I've seen anywhere!*



and having the SD channel lets them pass EVERYTHING in DD5.1 on the HD channel!


----------



## jscnyc

amist the college football,some excellent jazz on pbs


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fourthstooge_
> *and having the SD channel lets them pass EVERYTHING in DD5.1 on the HD channel!*



Please explain?


----------



## Ken Ross

Yeah, I didn't get that one either.


----------



## jscnyc

can anyone let me know, is channel 9 wor doing some low pwer testing? is there ch going to be 57? or the sub ch of 5 fox. the reason is im getting some popping crackeling sounds on 57. thanks


john


----------



## trekkerj

57 is WLNY-DT.


----------



## jscnyc

so do you know where wor will be?.thanks



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *57 is WLNY-DT.*


----------



## harican

WWOR-DT is going to be on channel 38


----------



## jscnyc

thankyou for that. im getting alittle popping static on 38 also. just wondering since some people from around the country reporting upn going hd. could the metro area have ch 9 dt soon. hope so. getting abc was christmas for me. not getting greedy, just asking.


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by harican_
> *WWOR-DT is going to be on channel 38*


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ed Barclay_
> *Please explain?*



My receiver shows that all audio from channel 7.1 is DD5.1.....including the commercials. Meanwhile, the audio on 7.2 comes through DD2.0


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fourthstooge_
> *and having the SD channel lets them pass EVERYTHING in DD5.1 on the HD channel!
> 
> 
> My receiver shows that all audio from channel 7.1 is DD5.1.....including the commercials. Meanwhile, the audio on 7.2 comes through DD2.0*



But how does having the SD channel affect the HD channels audio. Could they not do 5.1 on the HD channel whether or not there is a SD channel?


----------



## bs77

Hey Andyng and BuzaidC,


Did you guys tweek your antennas yet? ? I just checked and my signal for 45 (ABC) is still Great at 93-100% (FOX and CBS 100%) Im looking good for MNF... YEAHHH BABY


----------



## BuzaidC

Just came in off the roof. I think that my neighbors must think I am a little strange since I was crawling around on the roof in the darkness. I was up on the roof, on my cell phone, talking to my wife who patiently read off signal strength numbers to me for 45 minutes.


I was able to get ABC 45 up to a steady 72 from 0 to 10. So far, the picture comes in fine. Both FOX 44 and CBS 56 are still at 100. Minor adjustments do not seem to affect FOX 44 and CBS 56 at all but make a big difference to ABC 45. I live about a mile north of the Tappan Zee Bridge.


If I move the antenna about 5 to 10 inches to the left, ABC 45 comes in at a solid 100. The problem is that I will have to move my mast to do that and since the mast mounted on a vent pipe, I want to leave it where it is. Tomorrow, I will order the ChannelMaster 8 bay bow tie. (I currently have the ChannelMaster 4 bow tie). I think it is a much wider antenna and that it will get a better signal. I am going to try that rather than move the mast.


It is incredible to me how much difference a few inches makes in the signal. It goes from zero to 100 in the space of 10 inches.


Thanks for all your help BS77. I will let you know how I do with ordering/installing the new antenna.


----------



## andyng

hey guy, just follow your guys lead and crawled up the stair to the roof. move the antenna to the left a few inches. I have no one to help monitor the signal so i gotta go up twice. Here is the result

signal for cbs and fox are up to 80-90% now.

signal for abc is up but not enough to lock in.

Now i can get pbs at 21.1 which i didn't get before...along the way i got some small signal for other chanels.


However, i'm using a crappy preamp from rat shack. I tried to remove that preamp and here is what i found.

signal from fox and cbs are still strong but signal from other chanel drop off.


This lead me to the conclusion:

I need to tweak the antenna a little tomorrow in the morning with my wife help.

I need to get a good preamp. I will buy a cm 7777 tomorrow.


again..good job...thanks you all


----------



## antneye

recap....


East Islip, NY


on day 1 i had a signal @ 39% no drops for about 2 hours

day 2 until now i bounced between 0 and 36% with no picture.


Today i tried adjusting antenna.....nothing. So i put antenna back in original location.


all day no pic.


just checked @ 8:00..........


and...........................


Beautiful HD on abc....dont know whats on and i dont care. Signal is bouncing between 30 and 36%, but its locked in with no drops. I gotta believe that I am right on the fringe of reception and will be A OK once they fully ramp up their power. Someone had said that they are upping the juice during prime-time, and that may actually be true because it wasnt until prime-time that my pic appeared. This has me optimistic about MNF. Now if only my fantasy team would give me a reason to watch tomorrow night (Thats a whole different story).


----------



## antneye

it's gone again.....


but i'm so damn close to getting it that i'm sure i'll be ok once they are at full power.


----------



## Big L

Two things:

1) Is ABC transmitting full-time now, all the time? Because I can't get a signal for anything.







I'm able to get CBS, UPN and Fox using a R.S. UHF/VHF amped antenna hooked up to a Samsung 165. But channel 45's a no go. What gives?

2) What format does Fox use during football games? I was watching a game tonight and I could clearly see a "normal" signal and a hi-def one. When they showed the entire football field it'd look terrible, but when they would close in on a player in the game or on the side-lines, it look great. Just curious.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Big L_
> *What format does Fox use during football games? I was watching a game tonight and I could clearly see a "normal" signal and a hi-def one. When they showed the entire football field it'd look terrible, but when they would close in on a player in the game or on the side-lines, it look great. Just curious.*



FOX uses widescreen 480P (I heard they actually shoot in 480i then double the signal before it's transmitted), but they are not high def capable yet. So you see more of the field than a standard 4:3 viewer, but that's about it.


Close-ups always look better than far-way shots, but there are cameras of different quality being used on the games. Usually the sky cam shots and the cameras on zip lines above the field look noticeably worse than the other cameras.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *FOX uses widescreen 480P (I heard they actually shoot in 480i then double the signal before it's transmitted), but they are not high def capable yet. So you see more of the field than a standard 4:3 viewer, but that's about it.*



While FOX uses 480p for some of their filmed programs, the football does not approach 480p to my eyes, either close-ups or long shots.


It looks like standard definition in wide screen. I have no idea how they achieve this picture.


----------



## MLM

Perhaps someone can help me understand my strange reception problem.


I'm located in Bayside and use an old roof antenna with some missing parts together with a small RS amplifier. Using a T-351 STB, all my HD reception is razor sharp. I guess I'm within 20 miles of the ESB.


I get WABC, WPIX, and WNYW all perfectly.


However WCBS is spotty. Sometimes it's perfect and at other times it will often break up so as to be unwatchable. At times the T-351 willl even display the dreaded "no signal". The admittedly less than perfect signal meter on the T-351 will show about 70% and drop to absolute zero at these times. I have tried fiddling with my antenna, with limited success.


I have two questions:


What causes breakup on what is an essentially strong signal?


Since WCBS comes from the same antenna (and with comparable power ?) as WPIX and WNYW how is it that only one of the stations gives me this problem?


If a question like this has been answered before, perhaps I could be directed to a good search.


Thanks.


----------



## KenA

I would try it without the amp. It may be causing problems


----------



## KenA

Has anyone been able to record WPIX-DT with a HiPix card? I have no problem with any of the other networks and when I watch any of the available WPIX channels, it usually comes in fine. For some reason, when I set a timer or use Titan-TV, the recording fails with a "check your antenna" message.


----------



## Steve Wright

Does anyone know if WABC has been at full power yet. I am using a Silver Sensor and can pull CBS in near the high 90's and sometimes 100 percent. I repositioned the antenna last night and the best I could get was a signal in the mid to upper 30's on WABC. Then the signal dropped all together. Will the signal ever be as strong as CBS or will I need to get another antenna with an amplifier. I would rather save the money if WABC signal strength will eventually improve.


Thanks guys..


----------



## Infominister

WABC-DT is at only about half their eventual signal strength right now. Give it a couple of months.


----------



## MKII

I live in NE Bergen county. I have a model 6000 from E* and a RS Double Bow Tie on top of the TV. ABC-DT is coming in 75% with no drop outs and it's in 5.1. Watched ALIAS with no problems last night. FINALLY


----------



## trekkerj

I didn't think Alias had such great PQ. The Practice looked good.


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ed Barclay_
> *But how does having the SD channel affect the HD channels audio. Could they not do 5.1 on the HD channel whether or not there is a SD channel?*



I suppose that they could, Ed, just as WCBS does now; but having the separate channels saves them from switching back and forth like WCBS does and they often have audio problems. It also lets us choose how we wish to view the SD content; in 16:9 with DD2.0 on the SD channel or in 4:3 with DD5.1 on the HD channel.


----------



## John Mason

No WABC-DT late Monday morning, and I must have tuned in the wrong times last week. That's assuming I should at least detect a signal only blocks away. With a Silver Sensor and my RPTV's built-in tuner, at a north-facing 'shielded location' (mid-town, eastside) I can tune CBS, and Fox sometimes, but haven't been getting the slightest signal flicker at UHF 45 (ABC). Perhaps I'm too close and the signal lobes are only reaching locations farther out. -- John


----------



## trekkerj

They are only on during primetime at the present time.


----------



## John Mason

Thanks, trekkerj. Dumb assumptions here. I thought they were just performing periodic daytime tests, so haven't tried primetime. -- John


----------



## Infominister

That's right. Except for random testing, they've got the power turned off during daylight hours while workers complete construction on the Conde Nast transmitter. That's going to continue for a couple/few weeks. Then, in another couple of months, they plan to increase power.


----------



## MJConnel




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> 
> I actually have the Channel Master 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna (CM4228). I had ordered it from Solid Signal but I Never used it because it was too big to fit in the opening up to my attic.



I was able to fit my 4228 in the attic by partially disassembling the antenna. I first disconnected the bowtie arrays by removing the two screws (tap-off points) securing the rods joining the two arrays. Using a 1/8" drill, I drilled out the four rivets holding one screen and bowtie array to the cross brackets. I then was able to fit the antenna through the opening and reassemble in my attic replacing the rivets with four #8 galvanized screws, nuts & washers.


----------



## antneye

s2silber,


are you sure that they aren't transmitting during daytime hours? I constantly check my signal because i am on the fringe of reception (based on there present power levels) and I am definately seeing signal in daytime, just not good enough for a pic. Twice I have locked in ther signal between 8 and 9 in the evening, but then i lose it.


I am hoping you are correct about the signal increase coming shortly.


----------



## jscnyc

right now they are not broadcasting, the other day they resumed at 4pm/ its speratic but please for the grace of god let there be HDMNF tonight


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by antneye_
> *s2silber,
> 
> 
> are you sure that they aren't transmitting during daytime hours? I constantly check my signal because i am on the fringe of reception (based on there present power levels) and I am definately seeing signal in daytime, just not good enough for a pic. Twice I have locked in ther signal between 8 and 9 in the evening, but then i lose it.
> 
> 
> I am hoping you are correct about the signal increase coming shortly.*


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by antneye_
> *s2silber,
> 
> 
> are you sure that they aren't transmitting during daytime hours? I constantly check my signal because i am on the fringe of reception (based on there present power levels) and I am definately seeing signal in daytime, just not good enough for a pic. Twice I have locked in ther signal between 8 and 9 in the evening, but then i lose it.
> 
> 
> I am hoping you are correct about the signal increase coming shortly.*



The director of engineering at WABC told me that for the next couple of weeks the transmitter will usually be turned off during the day while workers complete the Conde Nast antenna tower. It's very possible that they do turn it on periodically during the day for tests, which may account for the signal readings you get. Nonetheless, it sounds to me like you're just out of range for decent signal reception at current power levels. I'll bet you'll be able to lock the signal once they boost kW's.


----------



## jscnyc

ABC-DT is broadcasting now.for you testers WPIX=DT also

j


----------



## jscnyc

hey i just noticed, i beacame a senior member. Ken h. how did i acheive this status, i dont feel that old and my birthday hasn't even come yet. (joking)


john


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *ABC-DT is broadcasting now.for you testers WPIX=DT also
> 
> j*



WPIX-DT is testing where? On their regular Channel 33 slot, or low-power, temporary VHF Channel 12?


----------



## andyng

as of 4.05pm today, here is my test result

abc,cbs,fox,wpix-dt, wb are all in the 80% range. I spent half hour with the wife reporting the result downstair. Gotta move the antenna left and right for a while. I also bought and use the cm 7777. It helps alot.

I also lost signal of pbs 21.1 but i think abc more than make up for it.

Now, bring on the NBC


----------



## jscnyc

my tuner on my mits says 11.01,.02 &12.01 ive semed to loose a ch since the last time they broadcasted. i posted that for people who where directing there antennas, sorry if i confused you. thanks



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *WPIX-DT is testing where? On their regular Channel 33 slot, or low-power, temporary VHF Channel 12?*


----------



## aaron.s

All -


ABC Monday Night Football is looking GREAT here in Yonkers in HDTV on my Sony 60" Grand Wega II TV!


5.1 surround could be better mixed though - college football on HDNET (on DirecTV) sounded much better with the crowd mixed into the rear channels).


Still good though!!!!


Aaron


----------



## bs77

Thanks aaron.s for your help the other day. ABC is now coming in at 93-100% for me and MNF looked FANTASTIC!!!!! Isint life GREAT!!!


----------



## armani24

Now that ABC has joined the HDTV revolution when is NBC going to buck up? Does anyone have any information????


----------



## John Mason

Assuming WABC-DT was broadcasting football at ~9-9:05 Monday night, I couldn't get the faintest whisper of a signal (mid-town, eastside), perhaps 9 blocks from the site, and haven't since they began testing. With my Silver Sensor and RPTV built-in tuner, the setup does register Fox and WCBS-DT. A mystery. -- John


----------



## jscnyc

I dont understand that. you are right there. WABC-DT looked great last night. i think they did a great job. i am one of the luckty ones and am appreciative. my 1080 set did a great job w/there 720p sing. i cant complain. good luck


john


> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *Assuming WABC-DT was broadcasting football at ~9-9:05 Monday night, I couldn't get the faintest whisper of a signal (mid-town, eastside), perhaps 9 blocks from the site, and haven't since they began testing. With my Silver Sensor and RPTV built-in tuner, the setup does register Fox and WCBS-DT. A mystery. -- John*


----------



## trekkerj

Sometimes, being close in like that can hamper signals, especially if the transmission site isn't the tallest building and there are lots of other buildings close by that are blocking the signal. Hopefully, they will continue to tweak their signal to try and reach the most people.


----------



## jscnyc

ok, that explains why people 40-50 miles away where getting it. clear site.


j



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Sometimes, being close in like that can hamper signals, especially if the transmission site isn't the tallest building and there are lots of other buildings close by that are blocking the signal. Hopefully, they will continue to tweak their signal to try and reach the most people.*


----------



## trekkerj

Yeah, I'm 35 miles out, got 80%+ signal and no dropouts the whole game. Being close in like that, the signal is even more directional, so keep moving those antennas around-that's all I can think of. Anyone else have a recommendation? Don't you Manhattan people get ABC through Time Warner?


----------



## George Thompson

One of the problems with being close to the transmitter in midtown is that antennas do a great job of radiating horizontally, but not vertically. (Why waste power straight up or down?). Any signal that is usable underneath the antenna is blocked by buildings. However, the RF is also bounced around by the buildings too, multipath. When a news truck cannot see the receive site they just turn the microwave dish around until a signal is bounced off some building and pick up at the receive site.

Do the same with your Silver Sensor. Turn it around until you can receive a bounced signal. There is plenty of RF about 1000'? straight up, but not down on the ground.

I hope this helps.

GT


----------



## antneye

George,


any more info on WABC's power and the timeframe for upping the juice?


Still in the dark in East Islip


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> 
> Do the same with your Silver Sensor. Turn it around until you can receive a bounced signal. There is plenty of RF about 1000'? straight up, but not down on the ground.



Thanks, George. Yes, I have to do that (receive multipath) for all my OTA. (My RPTV shows four separate readings that must lock for tuning, and none of them even flicker no matter how the antenna is oriented.)


Taping in 45 (UHF) with my remote brings up a WABC-DT not-available logo on screen. But believe that's stored in the tuner memory from the few times I managed to tune WABC-DT from the former WTC site. Perhaps there's some oddball digital-tuner blockage from this old ABC memorized data. Come to think of it, believe there is a setting for automatic swept channel storage versus manual entries. I'll try again tonight. Used to just using cable remotes for HD.  -- John


----------



## George Thompson

Not having talked to the project manager, I can only guess that it might have something to do with the fact that the last time I checked (last week) there were only two flat panel antennas on the mast and I think that there are suppost to be three. This is only conjecture from an old antenna/transmitter engineer.

When I heard power mentioned before I thought ConEd type power. I think it meant transmitter power. It may be capacity of couplings or combiners or antenna. I have no idea since my contacts at WABC maintenance (NABET brothers) are not on the transmitter project.

I'll let you know when they "leak" it to me, lol.

GT


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *Assuming WABC-DT was broadcasting football at ~9-9:05 Monday night, I couldn't get the faintest whisper of a signal (mid-town, eastside), perhaps 9 blocks from the site, and haven't since they began testing. With my Silver Sensor and RPTV built-in tuner, the setup does register Fox and WCBS-DT. A mystery. -- John*



Since multipath, in your situation, is your friend, might you not have better luck with something less directional than the Silver Sensor?


----------



## jackcs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *Yes, WLIW-DT 22 coming in loud and clear from Garden City, NY!*



Wow it looks great in Greenwich. How did I miss this?

Thanks sel;denpat.

How long has WLIW been broadcasting at this strength?


----------



## trekkerj

Several months now.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jackcs_
> *Wow it looks great in Greenwich. How did I miss this?
> 
> Thanks sel;denpat.
> 
> How long has WLIW been broadcasting at this strength?*



What trekkerj said...










No problem! Enjoy the loop!


----------



## trekkerj

Yeah, it gets REAL boring after the 50th time.


But there's a nice travel program on at 7:30, makes you feel like you're in Europe.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RichYak_
> *Since multipath, in your situation, is your friend, might you not have better luck with something less directional than the Silver Sensor?*



Perhaps so. Might try something like the RS bowtie. Perhaps integrating all the reflections is the right approach. Thanks for the suggestion. Fortunately, my cable companies carry all the stations, but I like to A-B compare OTA vs. cable to help monitor quality. --John


----------



## wward

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by George Thompson

Do the same with your Silver Sensor. Turn it around until you can receive a bounced signal. There is plenty of RF about 1000'? straight up, but not down on the ground.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You may want to also try tilting the Silver Sensor up so that the top is pointing straight up at 90 degrees. That places the active element in a vertical plane thus decreasing the Silver Sensor's directionality.


----------



## trekkerj

George, any inside info about this mediaweek article about NBC and the GE building?

http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/h...ent_id=2016900


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *George, any inside info about this mediaweek article about NBC and the GE building?
> 
> http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/h...ent_id=2016900 *



George could give more detail, but I understand from a source at WNBC that the article is correct. The good news is that they should go live in about two weeks. The bad news is that it will be at low power until ESB broadcasting resumes in March, although stronger than WPIX-DT's signal. My source did say, however, that they're optimistic about coverage because of the particular signal pattern they'll be using and that people throughout the metro area with good rooftop antennas may be able to lock the signal. Again, I defer to George for a better technical explanation.


----------



## trekkerj

Darn, so my indoor antenna won't work? Do you know what the signal strength will be and if it will still be on channel 28?


BTW, I'm on the base of a hill, so even in Morris County, I can still sometimes lock onto WPIX with a small indoor VHF antenna (hung outside my window, however). Hopefully, they are planning to stick with UHF so my radio shack antenna may pull it in. Looking forward to trying, anyway.


----------



## Infominister

They don't seem sure yet exactly what the signal strength will be, but it will be less than WABC-DT's 222 kW ERP. I didn't ask about the channel position, specifically, but I got the sense that it's still Channel 28. Alot remains TBD until they flip the switch, so we'll all have to just see what happens when we try tuning in about two weeks from now.


----------



## trekkerj

Cool, hopefully it has good reach (better than WPIX anyway). Keep us posted!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *They don't seem sure yet exactly what the signal strength will be, but it will be less than WABC-DT's 222 kW ERP. I didn't ask about the channel position, specifically, but I got the sense that it's still Channel 28. Alot remains TBD until they flip the switch, so we'll all have to just see what happens when we try tuning in about two weeks from now.*



All the more reason for me to *think* about upgrading from my current E86 to a more modern internal OTA tuner. My E86 (as do most) has issues with low power signals as well as multipath that *supposedly* the newer (i.e. Zenith, Samsung, Sony) generation STB's are able to handle better.


I just noticed on Circuit City's website that Hughes has a new D*/OTA HD box for sale ....$369. Anyone going to purchase it???


This NBC news IS great news if indeed the signal is solid enough to exist on a nightly basis in the backwoods of NJ for me


----------



## jackcs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *What trekkerj said...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No problem! Enjoy the loop!*



Is WLIW only showing the loop?

Not the national PBS HD shows?


----------



## bs77

Ch 21-1 shows the HD loop and the National HD shows usually between 6-8 PM.... Ch 21-2 is the digital version of the regular Ch 21


----------



## jscnyc

Wow, NBC-DT back in NYC..this is awesome. what a great time to be alive. keep this up and ill get rid of cablevision.


----------



## cgardias




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *Wow, NBC-DT back in NYC..this is awesome. what a great time to be alive. keep this up and ill get rid of cablevision.*



Did you mean ABC? Haven't heard anything about NBC going HD in NYC.


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *Wow, NBC-DT back in NYC..this is awesome. what a great time to be alive. keep this up and ill get rid of cablevision.*



Now we need Fox in 720p and more programming, particularly sports. Life will be good again, without having to pay for cable or sat.


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cgardias_
> *Did you mean ABC? Haven't heard anything about NBC going HD in NYC.*



Read this thread .


----------



## jscnyc

just a shout out for all my buddies connecting,tweeking and antenna twirling
 






ABC-DT is broadcasting sufficient enough to give me a great looking SD ch & there powerful HD ch. I say this to my eyes last night ABC-DT looked better than CBS-DT & WPIX-DT. something also, in bklyn, abc analog ch has always been the strongest out of the other local networks b'casting ota analog ch, this has always been. I wondered if this had something to do with the great pic i saw last night. sheer power.


john


----------



## cgardias




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RichYak_
> *Read this thread .*



Oh! Excellent!!!!

Now if I could only receive the damn signal from ABC. I live in upper westchester (Ossining) and I use a RCA double bow tie antenna. CBS comes in at 70 and FOX is at 50, ABC is only at a measly 5.

I wonder if the Zenith silver sensor antenna would do the job?


----------



## Infominister

Having just moved from Ossining, I'm surprised you get those stations as well as you do with the RCA double bowtie. The Zenith Silver Sensor might work for you; it was intermittent for me. However, you may need to go rooftop. In Ossining, I got very good OTA reception using the Winegard Sensar w/pre-amp.


----------



## cgardias

I wish I could go rooftop but I live in a condo complex and its verbotten!


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cgardias_
> *I wish I could go rooftop but I live in a condo complex and its verbotten!*



Actually its against the law for them to prohibit you from installing a rooftop antenna. This has been discussed quite a bit. I'd recommend a search of the forums.


----------



## trekkerj

jscnyc, what kind of tv do you have that you say ABC looked better than CBS?


----------



## jscnyc

I have a 1080 mits, I realize abc is 720, not my native. but abc dt looked excellent to me last night compared to the other digi channels.i noticed it to be really clear and vivid. so if my tv does only 1080, and i receive the ota 720p sign. what happens is my 1080i set de-nterlaces it and then makes the 720p lines and scales them to 1080 interlaced lines to my screen? is this correct? it still looks awesome.


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *jscnyc, what kind of tv do you have that you say ABC looked better than CBS?*


----------



## Trip in VA

Hello all.


I am formerly from New Jersey, but moved to Virginia about 9 years ago.


At Thanksgiving, we hope to make a trip be visit and stay with my grandparents. I will be bringing the digital tuner.


They are located in Fair Lawn, and I will be using my Silver Sensor + CM7777 unless I can figure out how to get a signal from the antenna they haven't used since 11-01.


Here's what I'm expecting based on what I've read, tell me if I'm correct:
56 WCBS-DT CBS Receivable

28 WNBC-DT NBC Receivable if on air

44 WNYW-DT FOX Receivable

45 WABC-DT ABC Receivable

38 WWOR-DT UPN WAAH! No UPN HD...

12 WPIX-DT TWB Not Sure

61 WNET-DT PBS Not Sure

22 WLIW-DT PBS Not Sure

24 WNYE-DT PBS Receivable

30 WPXN-DT PAX Receivable if STA is operating by then

40 WXTV-DT UNI Not Sure

47 WNJU-DT TEL Not on air?

52 WEDW-DT PBS Not Sure

51 WNJN-DT PBS Not Sure

27 WTBY-DT TBN Not Sure

57 WLNY-DT IND Not expecting it

08 WNJB-DT PBS Not Sure

48 WRNN-DT News Hopeful, but not sure (are they on yet?)

18 WMBC-DT ETH Not expecting it

29 WFME-DT REL Not Sure

23 WFTY-DT FUT Not expecting it

53 WFUT-DT FUT Not Sure


Thanks!


- Trip


----------



## trekkerj

For me, the 720p (i was watching 8 simple rules) looked MUCH softer compared to sitcoms on cbs. Same for MNF. Looked darn good, but still lacked something due to the conversion. I have a Toshiba 57hdx82, with my STB set to output 1080i. What size is your tv?


----------



## jscnyc

I have a 65" mits diamond series, I didn't catch that show but did catch the one after. I think it was "I'm with her" a chick show with alot of bright scenes w/alot of color. I thought it really looked great


j



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *For me, the 720p (i was watching 8 simple rules) looked MUCH softer compared to sitcoms on cbs. Same for MNF. Looked darn good, but still lacked something due to the conversion. I have a Toshiba 57hdx82, with my STB set to output 1080i. What size is your tv?*


----------



## Alan Malka




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *Hello all.
> 
> 
> I am formerly from New Jersey, but moved to Virginia about 9 years ago.
> 
> 
> At Thanksgiving, we hope to make a trip be visit and stay with my grandparents. I will be bringing the digital tuner.
> 
> 
> They are located in Fair Lawn, and I will be using my Silver Sensor + CM7777 unless I can figure out how to get a signal from the antenna they haven't used since 11-01.
> 
> 
> Here's what I'm expecting based on what I've read, tell me if I'm correct:
> 56 WCBS-DT CBS Receivable
> 
> 28 WNBC-DT NBC Receivable if on air
> 
> 44 WNYW-DT FOX Receivable
> 
> 45 WABC-DT ABC Receivable
> 
> 38 WWOR-DT UPN WAAH! No UPN HD...
> 
> 12 WPIX-DT TWB Not Sure
> 
> 61 WNET-DT PBS Not Sure
> 
> 22 WLIW-DT PBS Not Sure
> 
> 24 WNYE-DT PBS Receivable
> 
> 30 WPXN-DT PAX Receivable if STA is operating by then
> 
> 40 WXTV-DT UNI Not Sure
> 
> 47 WNJU-DT TEL Not on air?
> 
> 52 WEDW-DT PBS Not Sure
> 
> 51 WNJN-DT PBS Not Sure
> 
> 27 WTBY-DT TBN Not Sure
> 
> 57 WLNY-DT IND Not expecting it
> 
> 08 WNJB-DT PBS Not Sure
> 
> 48 WRNN-DT News Hopeful, but not sure (are they on yet?)
> 
> 18 WMBC-DT ETH Not expecting it
> 
> 29 WFME-DT REL Not Sure
> 
> 23 WFTY-DT FUT Not expecting it
> 
> 53 WFUT-DT FUT Not Sure
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> - Trip*



You should probably be able to receive 51 WNJN-DT. I really enjoy watching the national PBS feed when they carry it - between 8 and midnight. There have been times when they didn't carry it; I believe it was because the feed only had the HD demo at the time. They have 5 sub-channels, though when the national feed is available, only 3 are present. The national feed sub-channel (51-5) is always present, but there will be nothing on the sub-channel outside of the 8-midnight range.


48 WRNN-DT is on the air, though just about every time I pass by that station there is an infomercial on. They were showing a college football game last Saturday, but the picture quality left a lot to be desired. (I don't think it was a recent game.) As Murphy's Law dictates - that is the station which my tuners receive the strongest signal strength (over 70 on the RCA DTC-100, while CBS on that same tuner only comes in at about 40). It's probably because their origin is to the North (relative to me) and there are fewer obstructions.


WWOR-DT (UPN affiliate) is currently a sub-channel on WNYW-DT's 44. The picture quality is usually very disappointing.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Alan Malka_
> *You should probably be able to receive 51 WNJN-DT. I really enjoy watching the national PBS feed when they carry it - between 8 and midnight. There have been times when they didn't carry it; I believe it was because the feed only had the HD demo at the time. They have 5 sub-channels, though when the national feed is available, only 3 are present. The national feed sub-channel (51-5) is always present, but there will be nothing on the sub-channel outside of the 8-midnight range.
> 
> *The problem is, how far away is their micro-transmitter from Fair Lawn? I'm concerned it won't make it.*
> 
> 
> 48 WRNN-DT is on the air, though just about every time I pass by that station there is an infomercial on. They were showing a college football game last Saturday, but the picture quality left a lot to be desired. (I don't think it was a recent game.) As Murphy's Law dictates - that is the station which my tuners receive the strongest signal strength (over 70 on the RCA DTC-100, while CBS on that same tuner only comes in at about 40). It's probably because their origin is to the North (relative to me) and there are fewer obstructions.
> 
> *I think they only run news during primetime.*
> 
> 
> WWOR-DT (UPN affiliate) is currently a sub-channel on WNYW-DT's 44. The picture quality is usually very disappointing.*
> 
> 
> I know. Boo-hoo. At least UPN will be clear for me, which is a big change. My nearest UPN digital that isn't at flea-power is 110 miles, but it's so screwed up I can't decode it. The one after that is 125 miles and HD in Virginia Beach. So any quality's fine, as long as it's not snowy. I won't notice.



- Trip


----------



## jscnyc

I have lost all reception of fox, sub ch wor & 7.01 .02 the only one is cbs dt, but that also dropped earlier. whats up, any testing? has anyone in the area noticing this. i mean cbs dt ota has always been solid. thanks


john-


----------



## ThomC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *I have lost all reception of fox, sub ch wor & 7.01 .02 the only one is cbs dt, but that also dropped earlier. whats up, any testing? has anyone in the area noticing this. i mean cbs dt ota has always been solid. thanks
> 
> 
> john-*



Lost All Major Networks On SD D* from 8:06 to present

No WCBS, WNBC, WABC or FOX

Everything else is coming in as normal


----------



## trekkerj

I can get all of them, but the ESB ones are harder than usual to pick up, for some reason. But I CAN get 2-1, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1, and 7-2.


----------



## jscnyc

I noticed I lost WPIX-DT & CBS-DT dropped and came right back immediatly. I hope its further testing to include everyon getting good reception. if not im screwed.


j



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I can get all of them, but the ESB ones are harder than usual to pick up, for some reason. But I CAN get 2-1, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1, and 7-2.*


----------



## andyng

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=322699


----------



## trekkerj

I don't get it, so what happened? According to that thread, there were no locals. I was watching Friends on cable and had no problems.


----------



## uncertainty

I live in central NJ and noticed over the last week or so that I can no longer obtain the CBS HDTV signal with my indoor RS bowtie anntena. Has anyone else experienced the same problem?


ABC HDTV (7.1) has just been great the last week...


----------



## jscnyc

Can anyone give an answer to why i no longer receive ch 7, 5 sub 9 and 11 ota? fox is fine via cable but NO ota.


----------



## Alan Malka

Recently it was noted that most of the NY area broadcasters are not including guide data in their PSIP. At some point since then, WCBS-DT has started providing the guide; I happened to notice that on Saturday. If my observations were correct, each entry had a program title and most of the entries had program descriptions.


----------



## John Tuohy

I noticed the same thing. ABC has no program info WPIX has had it for a few months. Last week CBS had some incorrect psip data that was picked up by my zenith HDR230. It seemed to cause problems with my recorder. Thursday night from 8-11 showed the "price is right" each of the three hours


----------



## UroDoc

Bizarre situation tonight with channel 5 and channel 7.


Channel 5 appears as 5.01, 7.01, and 7.02 ????????


Channel 7 appears as 7.01 and 7.02.


If I input 7.01 I get the WABC HD PSIP (7.01) but the Fox channel 5 picture (5.01). If I go up one channel I again get WABC HD PSIP (7.01) and the ABC picture (HD). If I go up again I get the WABC SD PSIP (7.02) but I again receive the Fox channel 5 picture. If I again go up a channel I again get the WABC SD PSIP (7.02) and I now receive the WABC broadcast.


How can I have 2 different channels with the same PSIP ????


Has anyone else noticed this??


----------



## MLM

It certainly is nice to have Monday Night Football in HDTV, and a great game it was last night. In comparing it to the HDTV football available on CBS I have two observations. I am watching on a 50" Panasonic LCD RPTV. Native resolution is 720p. STB is T351 using DVI. I sit 9' away.


First it is clear that the blurry movement as a result (probably) of 1080i on CBS is much reduced and the motion which is so much part of a football game is given better reproduction on ABC. That was not much of a surprise, except that the difference is clearer than I had anticipated.


What does surprise me is that the picture generally (without considering the movement) is a good deal sharper on CBS. It is razor sharp even at my close viewing distance. Textures are more discernable. I write here only of live football broadcasts.


Since my TV is native 720p, and an extra conversion stage which I have done in the STB is required by the 1080i CBS transmision, I am at a loss to explain this observation.


Is the ABC equipment less sophisticated or up to date, anywhere from cameras on up to transmission? Any other explanation?


Has anyone else observed what I have?


----------



## tfinan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by uncertainty_
> *I live in central NJ and noticed over the last week or so that I can no longer obtain the CBS HDTV signal with my indoor RS bowtie anntena. Has anyone else experienced the same problem?
> 
> 
> ABC HDTV (7.1) has just been great the last week...*



I am located in Union County and like you I can no longer receive CBS 56 using a 4228 with pre-amp and rotator. Its been about 2 weeks for me too. I can receive channels 44 and 45 without a problem.


My best guess is that I needed the leaves helped with the reception for 56 and now they are gone.


----------



## trekkerj

Maybe it's my altitude in Morris Plains (400 ft), but I get all of those just fine with my RS double bowtie without a preamp, in the middle of the room away from the windows. CBS comes in the strongest as usual. Leaves would hurt your signal, not help it, so I am confused.


----------



## beatles6

According to the Zenith HD channel guide WNBC will be available on Channel 28 12/31/03 and WWOR on Channel 33 1/1/04.

http://titantvretailzone.com/rz/reta...asp?pid=zenith


----------



## MJConnel

I think you meant channel 38 for WWOR. Channel 33 is the UHF channel for WPIX, currently broadcasting at low power on channel 12 (VHF).


----------



## kaiming

I just hooked up OTA about 20 minutes ago. These channels are there* I'm not getting WABC however. 11216 Brooklyn



WPIX

WNYW

WCBS

Some spanish channel* WFUT??


----------



## vruiz

They're probably not on the air right now. You'll probably have no problem getting them when they are on since WFUT-DT is at the same location as WABC-DT and at lower power.


----------



## DAVE2

I would not hold my breath for the 12/31/03 release date of NBC digital. That is sounding quite optomistic, and probably quite wrong.


----------



## wayneliz

I too, have lost CBS-HD channel 2-1. It was working fine along with 5-1 and now I only get it at about 20% on my SAT520, yet 5-1 is strong. They both come from the ESB. Channel 7-1 is about 25%, but I still don't get a picture. I am using a cheap Radio Shack Terk knockoff of the amplified wing mounted on a mast outside. I am going to install a CM4228 this weekend and hope for the best. I've tried numerous rescans, but still nothing. Just seems weird that 2-1 just dropped off the screen here in Little Falls, NJ and other places at about the same time.


Wayne


----------



## CMR

I dont know about that Dave, My Sat520 locked onto channel 4-1 sometime this week. They may be testing but I am certain I did not have it prior to Monday.


Last night was the first night I actually relaxed and watched some television and oddly enough as I was flipping through the channels, I had a blank screen and no signal but channel 4-1 was there!!


Maybe, just maybe.........


----------



## trekkerj

Actually, they should be on in a matter of weeks from the GE building. Perhaps as early as next week. Find the WNBC thread.


----------



## ponnie1996

CBS has been fluctuating drastically for me lately (between 27 and 72% signal strength) and FOX (ch 44) has no signal at all. did I miss a thread on the reason behind the signal disappearance of FOX ?


BTW, ABC NY is at 24% signal strength which is OK because I get CT ABC at 100%


----------



## Infominister

I've also had alot of fluctuation on WCBS-DT, although the Fox digital station and WABC-DT have remained steady. I don't know what's going on with WCBS-DT. But sometimes the signal is good, other times it drops into the "Bad" zone and I get frequent break-ups. This has been happening for the past two months, or so. I've spoken to the chief engineer there and he says everything is the same.


----------



## Steven Drexler

This morning I was getting a steady 100% from CBS 2-1, but wild fluctuatins from 30% to 80% on 5-1 and 5-2. They have been a problem for the last 1-2 weeks for me in sysoset.


----------



## ragingd

Whats up everyone? I live in Brooklyn, NY and about 10-15 miles away from the ESB, I just wanted to know if u think i would be able to pick up wpix with a indoor antenna. Does the wpix broadcast on uhf or vhf? And what channel does it broadcast. Thanks for any help.


----------



## John Tuohy

Wpix is on 11 and 12 on VHF. I get it OK with a "UHF" antenna by my window with line of sight to the ESB. People have reported problems getting it without a VHF antenna.


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by CMR_
> *I dont know about that Dave, My Sat520 locked onto channel 4-1 sometime this week. They may be testing but I am certain I did not have it prior to Monday.
> 
> 
> Last night was the first night I actually relaxed and watched some television and oddly enough as I was flipping through the channels, I had a blank screen and no signal but channel 4-1 was there!!
> 
> 
> Maybe, just maybe.........*



Not to burst your bubble, but you may have gotten that if your Zenith did a channel rebuild that you weren't aware of. Every time my Sony HD200 builds a new channel list after it reboots, there's channel 4.1


----------



## ragingd

I have a direct line of sight to the ESB, but the signal only comes in about two bars on my receiver. can some one with a indoor antenna tell me what signal strength they get.thanks for the help.


----------



## cgardias

Wow, that sucks. I live all the way out in Ossining and I use a Radio Shack double bow tie indoor antenna (2nd floor) and I get aprox. 70% signal strength for CBS (2.1) during prime time hours.

I just received my Silver Sensor antenna today and I'm looking forward to hooking that up tonight to see if I can receive ABC. Crossing fingers!!!


----------



## CMR




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Not to burst your bubble, but you may have gotten that if your Zenith did a channel rebuild that you weren't aware of. Every time my Sony HD200 builds a new channel list after it reboots, there's channel 4.1*




"POP"


----------



## cgardias

Well, I hooked up my new Silver Sensor last night. I still can't receive ABC. Bummer! I get a stronger signal on CBS went from an avg. of 70% signal strength to aprox 80% (lots of fluctuation). Fox was fluctuating more than usual but that might have something to do with the high winds last night.


----------



## ragingd

Did anybody get wpix last night? Also, I have a indoor antenna and i don't know if it is uhf or vhf, but i was able to get some type of signal from wpix. Do u think if i changed to a indoor uhf/vhf antenna I would get the signal better? I get all the other channels loud and clear. Thanks for any help.


----------



## aaron.s

cgardias -


I live in Yonkers by cross county and get a great signal from ABC. Make sure you play around with the position of the Silver Sensor - it's highly directional! I find that I cannot always get both CBS and ABC at the same position - one will usually cut out so I need to have a position for each.


ABC should be a little bit more west (to the right from where we're looking) than CBS.... Also - try doing a re-scan of channels on your HD receiver - especially if it doesn't even list 7-1.


Give it a try and let us know.


Aaron


----------



## jscnyc

yes receiving the WB last night and now. bring on wnbc


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ragingd_
> *Did anybody get wpix last night? Also, I have a indoor antenna and i don't know if it is uhf or vhf, but i was able to get some type of signal from wpix. Do u think if i changed to a indoor uhf/vhf antenna I would get the signal better? I get all the other channels loud and clear. Thanks for any help.*


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *yes....bring on wnbc*



I heard that WNBC-DT had been planning to get the transmitter up and turn the switch on this weekend until the high winds we've had these last couple of days interfered.

I guess the guys at WNBC didn't think it was worth getting blown off the roof of the GE Building just to make a few impatient HDTV enthusiasts happy.


----------



## CMR




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *
> 
> I guess the guys at WNBC didn't think it was worth getting blown off the roof of the GE Building just to make a few impatient HDTV enthusiasts happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



HEY!!! Thats what teathers are for!!!


----------



## jscnyc

cool, good to know. hope so.


j



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I heard that WNBC-DT had been planning to get the transmitter up and turn the switch on this weekend until the high winds we've had these last couple of days interfered.
> 
> I guess the guys at WNBC didn't think it was worth getting blown off the roof of the GE Building just to make a few impatient HDTV enthusiasts happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## Infominister

If the weather cooperates, I'm told those of us within range might see some NBC HD programming some time next week.


----------



## jscnyc

this is great news, the weather states temps will be climbing and the metro-area should hit 50 degrees. so they wont have a prob. and they can catch some rays










j



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *If the weather cooperates*


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *...those of us within range...*



There's the rub. Who knows how far that range will reach.


----------



## Infominister

Yes. We shall see what we shall see.


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *If the weather cooperates, I'm told those of us within range might see some NBC HD programming some time next week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yeah--then I can see the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in HD!


But then again...maybe I should just go out and see it in person....


Nyaaah....


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *Yeah--then I can see the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in HD!
> 
> 
> But then again...maybe I should just go out and see it in person....
> 
> 
> Nyaaah....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I was planning to go down and see my daughter march with her high school band - - but if it's gonna be in HD, maybe it's not worth freezing my ar$$ off.


----------



## ragingd

jscnyc, what type of antenna are you using?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *If the weather cooperates, I'm told those of us within range might see some NBC HD programming some time next week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Have we heard anything as to what the signal strenght might be. Will it be similar to WABC-DT ?


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## jscnyc

I'm using a terk 35 which i bleive is a dual antenna capable of uhf & vhf. I know its not the best but i'm so close and get all the ch. that are b'casting dt in the metro area so i never bothered changing it for a better one. but you should go w/ an outdoor ant. good luck


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ragingd_
> *jscnyc, what type of antenna are you using?*


----------



## Infominister

Stronger than WPIX's VHF Channel 12 signal, but weaker than WABC's digital Channel 45. He couldn't be more specific than that, but it doesn't look like they'll go to anything too powerful until the combiner's done at the Empire State Building.


----------



## BuzaidC

Does anyone know how far the WPIX signal travels? Can anyone outside of the boroughs of NYC get a signal on WPIX-DT 12? I live about 23 miles north of the ESB and only get a 3 to a 6 on my E86 signal meter for WPIX. I have a UHF only antenna (4228) but I doubt I would be able to get a good signal with a VHF antenna since I am so far away.


----------



## George Thompson

If the Macy's parade is in HD it will be upconverted..... no HD truck.

You can watch it in spanish on Telemondo too.

GT


----------



## Bryan1701HD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by BuzaidC_
> *Does anyone know how far the WPIX signal travels? Can anyone outside of the boroughs of NYC get a signal on WPIX-DT 12? I live about 23 miles north of the ESB and only get a 3 to a 6 on my E86 signal meter for WPIX. I have a UHF only antenna (4228) but I doubt I would be able to get a good signal with a VHF antenna since I am so far away.*



I get a solid signal on WPIX from Bergen County a few miles north of Paramus. However, I'm using an outdoor antenna and the geography is rather flat between here and midtown - almost line of sight. I had some trouble due to the wind on Thursday, but it's usually fine.


Their temporary signal is only 125 watts to protect stations in other cities, so it's remarkable they get out as far as they do. You might stand a chance with a good outdoor antenna, but did you try rabbit ears indoors? If you happen to have a 300 ohm to 75 ohm converter and an FM dipole, you might want to try that. You never know.


----------



## sresnik

Hey all,


I am looking for some help. I live in eastern LI and am unable to get ABC on any consistent basis. I have a great signal on fox and CBS, and get a "pulsating" signal from ABC. A few nights I was able to get a solid picture on ABC but nothing for the past 2 nights. any guess as to why or any info on low power transmissions for testing??? I know during the day they were testing, but I was able to watch MNF and Alias earlier in the week. BTW I have a Radio Shack uv120 antenna with a CM7777 pre-amp on a 10 foot mast.


Thanks


Scott


----------



## beatles6

I have lost my signal of CBS 56 but I am getting 100 readings on 44 and 45. If 44 and 56 are both transmitting from the ESB how can this be explained?


----------



## Steven Drexler

Can you guys look at your signal meter for FOX (5.1) and UPN (5.2) and tell me if you are getting wild signal strength fluctuations? They use to be very steady for me. Since ABC went live they now vary wildly (30-70) with lots of dropouts. However, CBS, ABC, WPIX and WLIW are all very steady in the 90-100 range with my TS-160. Fox is 44 and WABC is 45 and I am wondering if the ABC signal is stepping on the FX signal.


----------



## charlieg

Steven,


I'm out in Coram and right now I see a pretty steady 69 from CBS, 77-79 from Fox, 77 - 86 from UPN, a 30 from ABC with frequent drop outs and a solid 69 from WLIW. While it would be nice to get ABC from NY with more regularity, I do pick it up from CT (WTNH) with a pretty steady 93-100 signal level on my TS160 (CM 4228, Winegard 1713 highband VHF & CM7777 preamp). My signals tend to deteriorate in bad weather, with ABC-NY going first, followed by CBS. Fox and ABC-CT seem to be more reliable though. I think the issue may be multipath related given my distance from the ESB but it is odd that Fox seems to remain fairly constant.


- Charlie


----------



## beatles6




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by beatles6_
> *I have lost my signal of CBS 56 but I am getting 100 readings on 44 and 45. If 44 and 56 are both transmitting from the ESB how can this be explained?*




Happy to report that CBS is now back at 100. They must have been off the air late last night.


----------



## kaiming

Thanks everyone,


11216 Brooklyn here. I didn't mess with an indoor ant. Got a used antenna/balun on the roof top. Nothing special, UHF/VHF. 100ft RG6, no amp, E* 6000 reciever.


I'm getting WABC,cbs,wpix, fox @ above 80%. I would like to get a PBS too, without a rotor, if possible. Is there one broadcasting near the same angle?


----------



## bebop86

hey- I just hooked up a Silver Sensor to my sony HD-200 -After rebooting it will not bring any OTA stations all I get is snow and on the digital stations I get "No Signal"- Moving the antenna does nothing_ What am I doing wrong???? thanks-


----------



## Steven Drexler




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by charlieg_
> *Steven,
> 
> 
> I'm out in Coram and right now I see a pretty steady 69 from CBS, 77-79 from Fox, 77 - 86 from UPN, a 30 from ABC with frequent drop outs and a solid 69 from WLIW. While it would be nice to get ABC from NY with more regularity, I do pick it up from CT (WTNH) with a pretty steady 93-100 signal level on my TS160 (CM 4228, Winegard 1713 highband VHF & CM7777 preamp). My signals tend to deteriorate in bad weather, with ABC-NY going first, followed by CBS. Fox and ABC-CT seem to be more reliable though. I think the issue may be multipath related given my distance from the ESB but it is odd that Fox seems to remain fairly constant.
> 
> 
> - Charlie*



My ABC signal is steady, it is FOX\\UPN I am having a problem with. They use the same transmitter which is why I think it is their problem, not mine.

ABC is not a problem for me. CBS, FOX and UPN are all from the ESB so I know it is not my antenna pointing. So, if your FOX is steady, I am a little baffled about why this is happening. Of, course if you are farther away, signal interference with ABC might not be a problem for you since ABC is a lot less power than FOX and distance may mitigate interference.


----------



## jscnyc

hey people, this is weird. my mits w/a built in tuner now shows 4 wabc-dt ch. the usual 7.01 & .02. but there are another 2 ch 7.01 & .02 but on those ch cbs is on. the ch id clearly says 7.01 .02 WABC-DT but has cbs's programming on. could the virtual id's be srewed up? thanks


john


----------



## wward

jscnyc



Sounds like it. Last night I had a weird situation happen I had a third WABC channel. The PSIP info said WABC-TV 7 analog but there was no sound or picture.


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Last night I had a weird situation happen I had a third WABC channel. The PSIP info said WABC-TV 7 analog but there was no sound or picture.*



I get the 3 WABC channels on my DCT-100. It appears that the PSIP is capable of identifying the analog station. When I tune to channel 7 it says WABC-TV and I get video and audio from the channel 7 analog transmitter.


----------



## beatles6

I am in Staten Island and get a steady 100 on CBS, FOX and ABC. Has anyone noticed that CBS has been turning off their signal late at night?


----------



## jscnyc

haven;t noticed them powering down, as long as they are on when hd content is broadcasting. I havent stayed up late in a while working 2 jobs 12/hr shifts to afford to hang out in this hd club. but about those gremlins giving me 4 WABC-DT ch with 2 of them having WCBS-DT programming, cant they just chuck one up and give it to WNBC-DT....geez look at those giants,..aaAAGGHH


j


----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *hey people, this is weird. my mits w/a built in tuner now shows 4 wabc-dt ch. the usual 7.01 & .02. but there are another 2 ch 7.01 & .02 but on those ch cbs is on. the ch id clearly says 7.01 .02 WABC-DT but has cbs's programming on. could the virtual id's be srewed up? thanks
> 
> 
> john*



Jscnyc:


See my earlier post about duplicate 7.01 and 7.02. The only difference is that I had channel 5 instead of channel 2. I have a Mitsubishi ws65907 with the Promise Module. I had the duplicate channel 7's for days thinking that it would resolve on its own but it didn't. Finally I re-scanned the digital channels and it was gone.


----------



## jscnyc

thanks mike, i'll try that.


john


> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *Jscnyc:
> 
> 
> See my earlier post about duplicate 7.01 and 7.02. The only difference is that I had channel 5 instead of channel 2. I have a Mitsubishi ws65907 with the Promise Module. I had the duplicate channel 7's for days thinking that it would resolve on its own but it didn't. Finally I re-scanned the digital channels and it was gone.*


----------



## ragingd

i need some help, I bought a new indoor antenna from RS(15-1852) and i get cbs, abc, and fox at top strength. I also get wpix and on my samsung sir-t151 it says its at top strength but i get alot of pixelation and audio dropouts every second. I live in brooklyn, NY and have a direct view to the ESB. I also tried a radio shack preamp to get a better signal but i still get the same problems. I really need some advice thanks.


----------



## beatles6




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ragingd_
> *i need some help, I bought a new indoor antenna from RS(15-1852) and i get cbs, abc, and fox at top strength. I also get wpix and on my samsung sir-t151 it says its at top strength but i get alot of pixelation and audio dropouts every second. I live in brooklyn, NY and have a direct view to the ESB. I also tried a radio shack preamp to get a better signal but i still get the same problems. I really need some advice thanks.*




I am in Staten Island and get the same readings as you on CBS, ABC and FOX. I get 60-65 on WPIX with the break ups. They are not transmitting at high power so there is really nothing you can do.


----------



## wward

beatles6 / jscnyc


WCBS powers down their digtal transmitter at 1am for transmitter work that is being peformed at the ESB.


----------



## jscnyc

I'm curious, I re-scanned my mits all the ch came back w/the correct id's except for the wb, it came back but now the id says 12.02,.03.04.05.06 I dont get WPIX-DT on 11 no longer just on 12. I was wondering if anyone knew why it changed? not complaining glad I receive it at all and am thankful.


john


----------



## ragingd

im just wondering why it would pixel and audio drop if we have good signal strength coming from the receiver


----------



## jschramm

Just need some help and advise, I live in Long Beach NY, which is about 22 miles from midtown. I just got a HDTV and need to pick out an antenna. From my roof I have a pretty clear shot to the city. Any suggestions, I would rather not have something that big, thanks.


----------



## BuzaidC

I live about 22 miles north of New York and the ChannelMaster 3021 (4 bay bow tie) worked well in my location. It did better for me than the ChannelMaster 3023.


----------



## Steven Drexler




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jschramm_
> *Just need some help and advise, I live in Long Beach NY, which is about 22 miles from midtown. I just got a HDTV and need to pick out an antenna. From my roof I have a pretty clear shot to the city. Any suggestions, I would rather not have something that big, thanks.*



The RadioShack 120" YAGI UHF/VHF should work fine for you. Take note that ATSC signals are very directional and you will either need someone to tell you where to point for max signal (an FRS radio works great for that) or use a rotor (Which is what I do). Use CBS to max your signal as they have a very strong consistent signal.


----------



## fredace

FYI, Newsday is reporting today that NBC will be broadcasting HD OTA this week. Yippee!!


----------



## Keith

Is there a Website Link to that Newsday Story ?


----------



## charlieg




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Keith_
> *Is there a Website Link to that Newsday Story ?*



Try the followiing:

Newsday Article 


It's toward the bottom of the page.


----------



## George Thompson

Lets see if this works....
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?cs...mag=7&resize=l 

Resize map to "5" on the right.

Delorme Topo software gives terrain mapping.

Here is a map of roughly what the coverage area of WNBC-DT will be. I say roughly because it depends upon terrain. The northeast and northwest areas will be in shadows of mountain ranges. This is a conservative estimation. I think the contours might extend another 10 miles if you are lucky north.

GT


----------



## Keith




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Lets see if this works....
> http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?cs...mag=7&resize=l
> 
> Resize map to "5" on the right.
> 
> GT*



Looks like to the EAST the cutoff will be Suffolk County...


I hope it goes at least a little more east, like to the

Sunken Meadow Parkway


----------



## charlieg

Thanks GT ... but I'm hoping the range extends another 20-25 miles east or I'm out of luck.


----------



## seldenpat

That sucks...I guess I have to hope for my friendly cable company to provide NBC-DT for me.


...Oh wait, I'm serviced by Cablevision...I'm SOOL!


----------



## George Thompson

Keith, Charlie, I dont think you will have any luck if you are east of say, Elwood, Commack or Brentwood.


----------



## Keith

I'm in Kings Park, Just East of Elwood, and north of Brentwood,

I have good UHF Antenna & Amp with Rotor, so I have my fingers crossed







WNBC-DT is my only hope, since WVIT-DT in CT is

still not on the air










My UHF Antenna picks up analog ch. 18 from NYC, and

thats at low power...


----------



## Infominister

So, George, I'm looking at the GE Building from about four blocks south and one block west and I see two transmitters of some kind near the Doplar radar globe and a set of five over the "E" of the big "GE" sign. Which one is it?


----------



## Keith

Pictures from top the GE Building ( Summer 2002 )


Here is the Link to the 8 pictures:

http://www.knip2.com/nbc


----------



## George Thompson

Man, I haven't been up there in years. You have to go through the mens room in the Rainbow Room for access to the microwave rooms and roof...lol.

I'll see what I can do...

GT


----------



## bgut1

Hi George - I've taken a look at your topo map and I'm between 5 to 10 miles south of the most southern point - on the Jersey coast(Ocean Twsp.). While I know this is only a conservative estimate of the coverage area, I find it a little tough to accept as I receive 2-1, 5-1, and 7-1 at 100% signal strength on my E-86 with an attic installed Yagi. On the other hand it may just be hopeful thinking on my part.


----------



## beatles6




> _Originally posted by Keith_
> 
> *Pictures from top the GE Building ( Summer 2002 )
> 
> 
> Staten Island looks like it's a field goal kick between the goal posts of the ESB and CN antennas which should mean a good signal from NBC.*


----------



## kaiming

Question about WPIX: 8 pm 11/18. Is anyone have severe problems with their signal??? E* 6000 says 80%. but can't lock audio and major freeze/blocks all the time. (it's the gilmore girls)


I've got to get this fixed before Angel tomorrow @ 9. People are coming over!!!


All other locals ala OTA/DTV are perfect above 80% too.


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kaiming_
> *Question about WPIX: 8 pm 11/18. Is anyone have severe problems with their signal??? E* 6000 says 80%. but can't lock audio and major freeze/blocks all the time. (it's the gilmore girls)
> 
> 
> I've got to get this fixed before Angel tomorrow @ 9. People are coming over!!!
> 
> 
> All other locals ala OTA/DTV are perfect above 80% too.*



Yes, I already spoke to WPIX Engineering about this. They made some changes on Thursday of last week. Not sure if this will be fixed by Tomorrow Angel/Smallville.


Call WPIX Engineering and ask for Nick Doshie at 212-949-1100. Or try to speak with Rich or someone else in engineering.


When I call it seems like i'm the only one calling to complain. I can't do this alone guys, we need to all chip in.


----------



## jscnyc

same erratic sign. here. I'm calling if it helps. thanks bud


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Linux23_
> *Yes, I already spoke to WPIX Engineering about this. They made some changes on Thursday of last week. Not sure if this will be fixed by Tomorrow Angel/Smallville.
> 
> 
> Call WPIX Engineering and ask for Nick Doshie at 212-949-1100. Or try to speak with Rich or someone else in engineering.
> 
> 
> When I call it seems like i'm the only one calling to complain. I can't do this alone guys, we need to all chip in.*


----------



## cpto

George - thanks for your map and info. Looks like it will be iffy in the Morristown area. Oh well, only time will tell.


Rick


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *same erratic sign. here. I'm calling if it helps. thanks bud
> 
> 
> john*



great going. maybe if we get enough people to call, the WB engineers will get their act together and stop making changes to how they transmit their signal everyweek.


freakin annoying, the WB just cost me like $500.


----------



## ilkevinli

Same here. Ill call in the morning.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *same erratic sign. here. I'm calling if it helps. thanks bud
> 
> 
> john*


----------



## jscnyc

hey all, ok I spoke to Nick at WPIX got his direct # from the receptionist, I called about 5 times trying to get him directly. He seemed like a nice guy and apologized for the inconvinience. He stated that they had a problem w/verizon ans it should be cleared up this a.m. I told him I was stopping at home around 2 and would take a look he asked if I could call him and let him know. as I'm looking at WPIX-DT right now it looks a lot better then yesterday.I'm going to call him and let him know this.


I invited him to avs and he said he was familiar and reads the posts from time to time. I also reinterated some people where disapointed in the power of the WB right now. he said they can't go to full power till they get to the combiner and move to ther digi ch 33 early next year. thanks


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Linux23_
> *Yes, I already spoke to WPIX Engineering about this. They made some changes on Thursday of last week. Not sure if this will be fixed by Tomorrow Angel/Smallville.
> 
> 
> Call WPIX Engineering and ask for Nick Doshie at 212-949-1100. Or try to speak with Rich or someone else in engineering.
> 
> 
> When I call it seems like i'm the only one calling to complain. I can't do this alone guys, we need to all chip in.*


----------



## trekkerj

And with the weather being what it is, no way I'm getting WPIX out here tonight for Angel.


----------



## kaiming

Called today, Nick said that they seem to have fixed it, it was a transport problem. Checked it out on my CRT projector... cool... sharon osborne has a talk show... No hits, no blocks, no errors.


Go Team Angel!!!!


----------



## ragingd

kaiming, what type of antenna are you using?


----------



## kaiming

I'm using a rooftop ant. that a neighbor gave to me. Generic old VHF/UHF. Location 11216.


If anyone wants to watch Angel tonite LMK. We have 8" CRT projector here. Having people over is the best way I know not to feel terrible about not being able to record or timeshift.


----------



## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Keith, Charlie, I dont think you will have any luck if you are east of say, Elwood, Commack or Brentwood.*



Selfishly, I like that description better than the map. I'm just east of the map (Huntington Station, right near Rte 110 & Jerich Tpke) and west of Elwood. I'm getting ABC at 100%, but rarely get PIX (it might be more than rarely, but I rarely try to get PIX).


Getting NBC, now that they have more on than Leno would be a very nice early Christmas present.


----------



## Linux23

thanks for helping me get this WPIX-DT situation under control guys. i honestly didn't notice there was a problem until this week because i work nights, and record all of my WB shows. when I get home, i assume it's the recording that's screwed up. whoever watches the WB, if you see a problem either let me know or just give the Engineers at the WB a ring, they are nice people.


**NOW** onto Smallville tonight.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Linux23_
> *....give the Engineers at the WB a ring, they are nice people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Interesting you should mention that about WPIX's broadcast engineers. As just another ordinary viewer, I've called engineers at almost all of the major NYC stations and found all of them to be friendly, engaging, informative and, as you say, just "nice people." That's a far different experience than what you get calling alot of other representatives at outfits in New York.


----------



## jscnyc

It was a pleasure for me and I learned a bit. Nick and I conversed a bit and I asked him why did the virtual id's changed, he didn't realize that another engineer changed something and he couldn't beleive I was now getting the WB from ch 12 all the way to 12.06. he said he'd check into that. its great helping another hd'er in the pursuit of a happy smile










john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Linux23_
> *thanks for helping me get this WPIX-DT situation under control guys. i honestly didn't notice there was a problem until this week because i work nights, and record all of my WB shows. when I get home, i assume it's the recording that's screwed up. whoever watches the WB, if you see a problem either let me know or just give the Engineers at the WB a ring, they are nice people.
> 
> 
> **NOW** onto Smallville tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## ragingd

kaiming

im live in brooklyn to but I have a indoor antenna. I get the wpix, but it has audio drops and it pixelates on me every second. But my signal strength comes in strong with my samsung. Location is 11226


----------



## andyng

anyone notice cbs and abc signal jumping up and down at the moment? I got it down to 20% and lots of break ups....hope it's just the rain and it will be back intime for the Victoria secret show....report if you have any problem


----------



## cpto

ABC and FOX were fine here, as usual, while WCBS went black. Fortunately I can pick up Philly CBS and am happily watching (and recording) Victoria's Secret right now. I posted a new thread about this on the Local HDTV forum.


Rick


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jscnyc_
> *It was a pleasure for me and I learned a bit. Nick and I conversed a bit and I asked him why did the virtual id's changed, he didn't realize that another engineer changed something and he couldn't beleive I was now getting the WB from ch 12 all the way to 12.06. he said he'd check into that. its great helping another hd'er in the pursuit of a happy smile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> john*



looks like the stuttering issue has cropped up again. it seems like every wednesday night, this issue repeats itself. i'm gonna check again in the morning, and if it's the same problem i will call Nick back and pinpoint why this keeps happening.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andyng_
> *anyone notice cbs and abc signal jumping up and down at the moment? I got it down to 20% and lots of break ups....hope it's just the rain and it will be back intime for the Victoria secret show....report if you have any problem*



That's strange. Out in the boondocks of LI, I found it strange the in spite of the rain, I had BETTER signal on CBS and ABC than normal (FOX is always the same for me) and it stayed there all night. I thought it was a Tropo effect, but saw nothing on the Hepburn web site.


Anyone else confirm in LI?


----------



## charlieg

I had a couple of dropouts on CBS last night but not enough to force me to switch to SD DirecTV. Signal strength was higher than I would have expected given the weather. Perhaps it was the wind (moving my antenna around) more than anything else that caused the minor problems I did see.


----------



## George Thompson

At these frequencys, signals will bounce off rain clouds.

GT


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *At these frequencys, signals will bounce off rain clouds.
> 
> GT*



I want to preface this by stating that I love when you post because you are always bringing something of value, so I am not taking a shot...but...


Do you have to qualify that statement? There have been MANY times when rain clouds have killed my signal. I am by no means an expert, but I'm not sure what would make this time different than others.


On a similar note, The Hepburn index calls for today to be Fair for Tropo Ducting and tomorrow as Moderate. I may try to scan for some Philly channels.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

by the way I thought I'd post my finding with RS Double Bow-Tie in window. I just moved so I can report two different sites.


Brooklyn , new york 11203

cbs 74 solid,

abc 94 solid

Fox 70 very unstable

UPN who knows, who cares?

40 - 22 what is this?


Brooklyn , new york 11220

cbs 88 solid,

abc - moved the weekend this went back on the air

Fox 80 some what stable

UPN who knows, who cares?

40 - 38 what is this?


----------



## George Thompson

Seldenpat, I was trying to avoid a dissertation on attenuation effects of moisture on rf propagation in free space. I could go to tables and give listings of moisture density vs frequency but I have neither the time nor inclination. Suffice it to say the ducting of signals at higher frequencies is facilitated by high moisture content of rain clouds.

We did simulation studies when going from C to Ku band for network distribution. Arbiet at higher frequencies but this is not tropospheric backscatter calculations for spread spectrum propagation of multipoint communications...lol.

I just tried to keep it simple.

GT

de WB9YRR


EDIT

It depends upon the attack angle of the rf. If it is going through the rain it will be attenuated one way, however, if the rain is less dense than the cloud cover, (some of) the rf will (tend) to bounce off the clouds and extend the useable signal in the usual deep fringe coverage area of the station.

Is that better?


----------



## jscnyc

I just called, left a message, the WB is dead no sign. here in s.brooklyn. anyone else?


john



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Linux23_
> *looks like the stuttering issue has cropped up again. it seems like every wednesday night, this issue repeats itself. i'm gonna check again in the morning, and if it's the same problem i will call Nick back and pinpoint why this keeps happening.*


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Seldenpat, I was trying to avoid a dissertation on attenuation effects of moisture on rf propagation in free space. I could go to tables and give listings of moisture density vs frequency but I have neither the time nor inclination. Suffice it to say the ducting of signals at higher frequencies is facilitated by high moisture content of rain clouds.
> 
> We did simulation studies when going from C to Ku band for network distribution. Arbiet at higher frequencies but this is not tropospheric backscatter calculations for spread spectrum propagation of multipoint communications...lol.
> 
> I just tried to keep it simple.
> 
> GT
> 
> de WB9YRR
> 
> 
> EDIT
> 
> It depends upon the attack angle of the rf. If it is going through the rain it will be attenuated one way, however, if the rain is less dense than the cloud cover, (some of) the rf will (tend) to bounce off the clouds and extend the useable signal in the usual deep fringe coverage area of the station.
> 
> Is that better?*



Your first point was well taken and your edit was appreciated as for what you would probably call "layman's terms".


Thank you for educating me (and probably a few others) today!


----------



## antneye

George,


I am confused by one thing.


I know that based on your analysis I am just outside the range of reception (East Islip), but from reading this site it appears that people further away than me are getting the signal. Does this mean that I am outside the range for reception with MY PRESENT antenna and would be ok with A LARGER antenna? Or is it that no matter what I do I would not get the signal until the combiner is done?


Perhaps I could pray for the proper raincloud density to get me just a hair bit more signal than i saw last night.


----------



## George Thompson

Antneye,

These are just predictions based on software that calculates signal strength and looks at 3d terrain maps. I would have to take a spectrum analyzer and signal strength meter out to an exact spot to see if there was enough of a signal to start with. Others may have a better antenna height than you do. Calculations show city grade, grade a and b then deep fringe areas. (Your results may vary).

It's all voodoo. RF is funny and does not always act as predicted. Bigger isn't necessarily better (for antennas). Higher is much better.

GT


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *...I have neither the time nor inclination...*



Sounds like Nicholson in A Few Good Men. I believe the next line was, "I don't give a damn how much HD you think you're entitled to."


----------



## jscnyc

hahaha thats funny











j



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RichYak_
> *Sounds like Nicholson in A Few Good Men. I believe the next line was, "I don't give a damn how much HD you think you're entitled to."*


----------



## cpto

7:56 PM Thursday and I'm getting 0 signal from WCBS DT. Anyone getting a signal out there?


7:59 update - KYW Philly is coming in fine.


R


----------



## kcn823

No signal or picture OTA here on Long Island either. Hopefully it will be back for CSI.


----------



## Ken Ross

No signal here either.


----------



## kyungkim

zero here in brooklyn.

now the e86 is all confused, on 2-1 its showing what i think is the analog signal, but its all fudged up, only staticky color bars.


when i go in n check the signal, its comin up zero.


why does this only happen on csi night?


K


----------



## cpto

Agree! CSI is my one don't miss show!


R


----------



## jscnyc

cbs-dt down her also, cable & ota


john


----------



## fourthstooge

anybody hear anything about the disappearance of WCBS-DT?


----------



## kcn823

Signals back, just in time!


----------



## jscnyc

the hd god is listening










j



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kcn823_
> *Signals back, just in time!*


----------



## fourthstooge

that was wierd. anybody know what happened?


----------



## Infominister

They had a problem at the transmitter around 7:30 p.m. Engineering got on it, with the goal of having the signal back up by CSI time, and they made it. When I got my signal back, it was stronger and more solid than I've had it in a long time.


----------



## robgold

I'm still not getting WCBSDT (as of 12:45 am). Anyone know if they're swtill having transmission problems? It was coming in fine until tonight.


----------



## RichYak

Try re-scanning.


----------



## kaiming




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Linux23_
> *Yes, I already spoke to WPIX Engineering about this. They made some changes on Thursday of last week. Not sure if this will be fixed by Tomorrow Angel/Smallville.
> 
> 
> Call WPIX Engineering and ask for Nick Doshie at 212-949-1100. Or try to speak with Rich or someone else in engineering.
> 
> 
> When I call it seems like i'm the only one calling to complain. I can't do this alone guys, we need to all chip in.*



Make sure you call if your having problems with their signal, please. Seemed ok earlier, while watching upconverts, but the prime time is hosed again!


----------



## andyng

can anyone tell me what going on lately with cbs and wb signal lately....i know that wb got problem lately but cbs seems like they lower the power...i got 60% signal off them....down from 90% couple days ago.

Fox and ABC are at 80% at this time and no problem...i just want to make sure before i turn my rooftop antenna again


----------



## cpto

The subject says it all. I appreciate that WB has been broadcasting to those with VHF antennas, but I'd sure love to see some of their shows in HD on their assigned UHF channel.


Unfortunately, my alternative--Philly--just doesn't have a strong enough signal for me to receive WB (and UPN is iffy).


With about 5% of the US audience in the NYC metro area (and most of them pretty well paid) it's hard to understand why NBC, WB, and UPN haven't done their best to get their antennas up.


Maybe they need to donate to the "dump Bloomberg" campaign to get the tower built where it belongs - on Governor's Island.


Just my humble opinion, of course.










Rick


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andyng_
> *can anyone tell me what going on lately with cbs and wb signal lately....i know that wb got problem lately but cbs seems like they lower the power...i got 60% signal off them....down from 90% couple days ago.
> 
> Fox and ABC are at 80% at this time and no problem...i just want to make sure before i turn my rooftop antenna again*



I'm in Woodside, Queens and I had to re-orient my Radio Shack doublebow tie several times yesterday trying to lock onto CBS--at one point I was aiming it straight up into the sky, and it locked.


This morning, everything is rock solid, including WPIX....it's totally bizarre how atmospheric conditions affect OTA digital signals like that.


I can't imagine having a roof top and having to go up there every few days....


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *I'm in Woodside, Queens and I had to re-orient my Radio Shack doublebow tie several times yesterday trying to lock onto CBS--at one point I was aiming it straight up into the sky, and it locked.
> 
> 
> This morning, everything is rock solid, including WPIX....it's totally bizarre how atmospheric conditions affect OTA digital signals like that.
> 
> 
> I can't imagine having a roof top and having to go up there every few days....*



I'm in Bayside and have similar experiences and am one who does go up on the roof from time to time.


Can anyone say with certainty whether the day-to-day changes we are putting up with are as a result of atmospheric conditions or are they engineering adjustments being made at the transmitters?


----------



## wward

There is work going on at the ESB which could affect signal response especially during the weekend. In addition over the past week or so atmospheric conditions in our area have been favorable for tropospheric bending of signals.


Yesterday was one of the strongest days I have seen in a while my signals from New York City which are decent for the most part with the exception of WABC-DT, WPIX-DT, WNET-DT were all off the scale last night. Even the aforementioned problem signals come in great


This signal "bending" is great for long distance viewing but appears to have the reverse affect for those that are closer to ESB (I assume).


----------



## sting0r

Is anyone having problems getting wabc-dt and wnyw-dt??? I am getting weird stuff this morning. CBS if fine, but I just picked up WNEP ABC out of Pennslyvania. Never got that one before. I think it's weird I am not getting my normal stations. WNYW had a little signal, but WABC had 0. Anyone else experiencing strange reception???



PS: I just got WPVI which is another Penn ABC station. What the heck is going on over here. No clue why I can't get my normal stuff....


----------



## Infominister

Yes, I saw problems begin to appear late last night on WABC-DT and WNYW-DT. On WNWY-DT I also had only a blip of a signal and WABC-DT was really strange -- sometimes a strong, solid signal but pixelization; other times the signal dropped out. I'll be interested to hear whether these problems persist throughout the day, today.


----------



## andyng

can anyone check signal? i got abc, fox, wb out....no signal or in the low 10....only cbs got 50% ..

I just want to make sure before i head to the rooftop and check my antenna direction


----------



## sting0r

Something going on. All I get is CBS and a bunch of PA stations... Hopefully its just somoene mucking around with transmitters or something....


----------



## CJArciola III

I actually lost CBS for a short time and I had to rotate the antenna about 15-20 degrees from the normal position I use. Then the signal suddenly shot back to around 88 when I checked around 10:30 or 11 PM. Around 9:30 or so I completely lost FOX no matter where I seemed to rotate the antenna. I also had trouble with WTNH, but the signal was back up this morning....still not completely strong. Could the Winegard preamp unit on the antenna mast be malfunctioning or could all this be due to atmospheric ducting???


----------



## sting0r

It looks like we are all having problems. Hopefully its nothing permant, keeping my fingers crossed for NBC tonight (not that there is any hd on it tonight, exept leno)...


----------



## Infominister

Judging by the number of related posts, it must be something in the atmosphere. Either that, or at least one of the stations mentioned in these posts is doing some work that's interfering with the others.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Yes, I saw problems begin to appear late last night on WABC-DT and WNYW-DT. On WNWY-DT I also had only a blip of a signal and WABC-DT was really strange -- sometimes a strong, solid signal but pixelization; other times the signal dropped out. I'll be interested to hear whether these problems persist throughout the day, today.*



There's some strange stuff going down in the air since last night. The Philly stations were also hard to "lock" in on, even though the signal strength was quite good. for KYW (CBS) I was getting almost 100% signal, but at times the picture was black and my STB said No Signal. WB, ABC also dropped to almost nothing. The only good signals I was picking up last night was UPN, FOX, and PSB out of Philly. So since the NYC stations were exhibiting the same atmospheric disturbances, there must be some common thing going on. Anyone hear of more sun storms coming our way over the past week?


----------



## Infominister

Has anyone considered the possibility of aliens from outer space?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *There's some strange stuff going down in the air since last night. The Philly stations were also hard to "lock" in on, even though the signal strength was quite good. for KYW (CBS) I was getting almost 100% signal, but at times the picture was black and my STB said No Signal. WB, ABC also dropped to almost nothing. The only good signals I was picking up last night was UPN, FOX, and PSB out of Philly. So since the NYC stations were exhibiting the same atmospheric disturbances, there must be some common thing going on. Anyone hear of more sun storms coming our way over the past week?*



Here's a link to what I experienced last night via OTA. I posted it in the Central NJ forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...04#post2962904 


Reading a few above and below this post, you can see there were QUITE a few odd things going on "in the air" last night. But, like the rest of you, I'm waiting anxiously with baited breath for a certain Peacock to flip his switch tonight.....


----------



## wward

Sounds like tropo again, last night was really bizarre I lost most of my Philly stations and started picking up stations from Massachusetts, Kingston, N.Y and the New York City digital stations were up down over and under with off the scale signal strengths when they were receivable.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *........................But, like the rest of you, I'm waiting anxiously with baited breath for a certain Peacock to flip his switch tonight.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Don't you mean flip its TAIL???


----------



## sting0r

Well its supossed to get cloudy later today and rain this evening. Hopefully that will let things return to normal...Guess this what happens when you get some nice weather out of nowhere....


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Don't you mean flip its TAIL???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



It IS a male peacock isn't it?


----------



## wward

Just checked the tropo forecast folks looks like we could be in for another wild ride tonight.

http://www.globalserve.net/~hepburnw/tropo.html


----------



## sting0r

Interesting website. Did you see in the guys background that he once got a TV station from Florida all the way up in Canada.....


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Just checked the tropo forecast folks looks like we could be in for another wild ride tonight.
> 
> http://www.globalserve.net/~hepburnw/tropo.html *




This may sound like a dumb question, but which is the better reception days when it is the higher color numbers or the extreme pink ? In other words which is a better reception day 1 or 9+ ?


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## wward

Not a stupid quiestion at all; the brighter the colors the more signal deflection occurs pink 9+ being the most extream.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Sounds like tropo again, last night was really bizarre I lost most of my Philly stations and started picking up stations from Massachusetts, Kingston, N.Y*



So I guess this is the same thing as "catching skip" (from my cb/ham radio days) CQ CQ CQ DX, WCBS New York, QRT and standing by...


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I'm going with the aliens also, but im not sure they are from outer space. the could be lurking right here


F.U.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Has anyone considered the possibility of aliens from outer space?*


----------



## wward

Chris


Yes that's correct. On another note I just heard that were transmitter and exciter problems at ESB which explains the drop outs and loss of signal over the weekend.


There is still some work to be done to remedy this so we may notice some of the same issues for the duration.


There appears to be a two fold situation here when WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT lowers or all together takes down their digital transmitters to fix these problems combined with the tropo some of us are able to receive other stations at incredible distances even digital stations.


Which may explain some of the other posts on this thread and other threads where people are stating that the long distance signals appears to come and go??


----------



## chrome

woohoo I am still getting 11-1 nbc from baltimore

my location: brentwood, ny


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Since when have you begun receiving this? thanks


F.U.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrome_
> *woohoo I am still getting 11-1 nbc from baltimore
> 
> my location: brentwood, ny*


----------



## s236

I'm picking up WNBC-DT channel 4-1 on my LST-3100A! Can't wait to see Jay in HD!


Tony


----------



## sting0r

How does it look? Damm, I am only getting 40% signal, not enough for it to tune in. I get 100% for ABC, CBS & FOX, I hope they are still tweaking it before tonight.....


----------



## feloniousmonkey

The pic looks as good as the other ota ch upconverted stuff. They are not b'casting 5.1. Are there any hd shows on tonights line-up. I dont think titan tv reflects WNBC-DT in n.y. I have heard alot about jay leno's pic quality, looking forward to that. thanks


F.U.


----------



## andyng

getting it here in the bronx....(is there a prize for the first guy in bronx to receiver nbc???)....signal strength is 67%....audio is not 5.1....looking forward to tonight leno


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andyng_
> *getting it here in the bronx....(is there a prize for the first guy in bronx to receiver nbc???)....signal strength is 67%....audio is not 5.1....looking forward to tonight leno*



Yes, It's NBC in HD.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Now for WOR-TV to get with the program. one day this thread will be a relic. we are the pioneers of HD










F.U.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

We are so close, just imagine scrolling thru ch on any given night and HD prg after HD


----------



## feloniousmonkey

OOPS..what I was gonna say all for FREE. The way tv should be.


----------



## KenA

57% in Massapequa. No breakups yet. Bring on the HD content!


----------



## Bryan1701HD

About 72% for WNBC-DT in Northern Bergen County. No breakups, but they pixelate on motion about as much as channel 11. A work in progress.


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bryan1701HD_
> *About 72% for WNBC-DT in Northern Bergen County. No breakups, but they pixelate on motion about as much as channel 11. A work in progress.*



I get nothing just a couple of miles from you, but my setup sucks: attic antenna, cheap pre-amp, RG-59 cable and lots of it.


----------



## Bryan1701HD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RichYak_
> *I get nothing just a couple of miles from you, but my setup sucks: attic antenna, cheap pre-amp, RG-59 cable and lots of it.*



I have a modest Rat Shack roof antenna, but no preamp. There's a decent line to midtown from here, but Woodcliff Lake might be at a higher elevation. An outside antenna makes a world of difference if you can do it.


----------



## bs77

Cbs 100%, Fox 100%, WB 50-60%, Ch.21 70-80% and now ... NBC 93-100%. All up here in Woodlawn (15 miles from midtown) with my channel master 4 bow tie Attic mounted antenna. All FREE HDTV !!! Can life get any better ???????


----------



## MartyJ

Down near Freehold NJ. Getting 40-50 with a locked signal. Using a CM 4228 in the attic with an amp. ABC is 100, CBS is 85


----------



## cpto

Strange. I still get zip in East Hanover for NBC. And CSI Miami keeps dropping out on CBS. But I'm getting a perfect CBS feed from Philly!


----------



## sting0r

In general are people getting alot of drop out on CBS and ABC tonight??? I have solid signals, at 100% on my FusionHDTV II card, but It is dropping out and studdering audio every 30 secs or so. Just want to rule out if its somehting funky with my computer,,,,


----------



## andyng




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *Cbs 100%, Fox 100%, WB 50-60%, Ch.21 70-80% and now ... NBC 93-100%. All up here in Woodlawn (15 miles from midtown) with my channel master 4 bow tie Attic mounted antenna. All FREE HDTV !!! Can life get any better ???????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



hey bs77...are you getting abc? i got cbs,fox,nbc,wb,wpix, all in upper 80....but i i lost abc...used to get it 80...i think i need to buy a new antenna


----------



## trekkerj

weather is wreaking some havoc with my reception, but i still get everything including ABC and NBC.


----------



## andyng

bs77, do you still have the cm 4228...i may want to get it from you...i can drive there tomorrow...send me an email or pm


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andyng_
> *bs77, do you still have the cm 4228...i may want to get it from you...i can drive there tomorrow...send me an email or pm*



Sorry Andyng but I am now using the CM 4228 myself, (I took it apart to fit it in my attic opening) thats why I can get all the channels. I Highly recommend it to receive all the channels. It works much better than the 4 bow tie I was using before. I just rechecked at 5:45 am and CBS is 100%, FOX 100%, NBC 93-100%, ABC 93-100%, Ch 21 80%, and the WB 50%. Good luck....

PS It took a lot of tweaking to find this sweet spot but it is possible for you since you are only a couple miles away from me...


----------



## andyng

hey bs 77, i plan to put this one on my building roof...do you have to point this to a certain direction and what to do to find sweet pot...i can see ESB from the roof of my 6 floor building


----------



## sting0r

I didn't get a chance to check on things this morning, running late as usual. Hopefully since it is cooling down the airwaves will clear up and I will be able to tune WNBC tonight. All my recordings last night had drops out like crazy. I had to watch all the Monday night CBS shows on my Tivo...


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andyng_
> *hey bs 77, i plan to put this one on my building roof.....sweet pot...*



Hey andyng I think you are in the wrong forum







LOL!! just kidding.. I cant see manhattan from my house, Im blocked by the high trees of Woodlawn cementary so I couldnt tell you where the sweet spot is. I suggest you first try to lock 7.1 because that seems to be the hardest and then tweak from there for the other channels. My family wasnt home so the way I did it is I just kept tweaking away and changing channels from my attic with my RF remote control. I called my Home phone from my cell and then put the phone next to the tv. Then from the attic I listened on my cell as I tweaked away (my Hughes e86 has sound with the signal meter). It took a while but I found the sweet spot for all the channels. From what I have seen I think the signals are the most steady on the weekends, therefore I suggest you try it then. Good Luck....


----------



## andyng

i will go out and buy a cm 4228 today...lucky we got a cm dealer in the bronx...i already have the cm 7777 preamp so hope it will be set for the winter


----------



## andyng

hey bs77 , is the cm 4228 need a pole with drilled hole in it in order to attach together? from the pic of the antenna...it look like i need to buy a pole and drill hole. Or the antenna comes with the pole?


----------



## bs77

Nope it doesnt come with a pole, but it does come with the hardware to fit into, and clamp to a existing pole. I didnt use a pole, I just wedged it against my attic wall. I bought my antenna from Solid Signal. Who is the authorised dealer for Channel master in the Bronx ??


----------



## feloniousmonkey

In my opinion a mast(pole) will help you guys get a better signal. I'm in brooklyn about 5 miles out and use a crappy terk 35 which I'm *told* is equivilent to a coat hanger and get 2,4,5sub9,7,11. goodluck


F.U.


----------



## jackcs

What's the real channel number for WNBC ?


advTHANKSance


----------



## trekkerj

28


----------



## sting0r

How is reception today? Are people still getting weird dropouts and lot of Tropo problems? Or did the atmosphere settle down?


----------



## andyng




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *Nope it doesnt come with a pole, but it does come with the hardware to fit into, and clamp to a existing pole. I didnt use a pole, I just wedged it against my attic wall. I bought my antenna from Solid Signal. Who is the authorised dealer for Channel master in the Bronx ??*



i got both my cm 7777 and cm 4228 at the store...it's at 3210 whiteplain road...it's the only authorized dealer in the bronx for channelmaster...you can check cm website for the detail.


i got a question for you...i got the 4228 today..mount it up,,,,i tried to point it at ESB (..is there such a thing like pointing 4228... )...anyway..i think i can't find the sweet spot yet....when i got wpixdt...i have no blip for other channel....when i turned the panel slightly left...i got audio and video for cbs,fox, abc but not nbc...


you said that you can get all of chanel with 22.1 too so i think this can be done....i wonder it's because i had to add another 100 feet of rgb6 or so from the antenna made the signal strength this week.


any idea from you is useful


----------



## bs77

I am still kind of a novice to all of this. I really dont know why if you have a clear view of the ESB that you cant lock 2,4, & 7 in. I am only 3 exits up on the bronx river parkway from you and I am getting all 3 at 100%. The WB is at 40-50% and unwatchable for me to many breakups. Ch.21.1 is coming in at a steady 93%. It might be as you said the length of your coax cable. Mine is running at 30 feet and I also have a CM7777 amp. I have heard that over 100 feet you get a lot of signal drop off and as far as I understand you are saying you are now over 200 feet, this might just be too long. I remember in one of your earlier posts that you said had a silver sensor, try that again and see what you get. Other than that I dont think I can help you, You might want to seek other members opinions on this forum. If anyone else has insight on this matter please post to help out Andyng. Thanks and good luck


----------



## andyng

thanks for your help. I understand the situation that i am facing...since the roof is 4 floors above my apt. and the location of the antenna require me to run the cable along the edge of the roof ( my super is super keen about it)....i couldn't find any place that i can better locate my antenna....as for the antenna...i guess my expectation is too high for it...i expect to get everything at 100%...

on another side note, what kind of receiver you use...it use hu or p4 card


----------



## cpto

I still don't know why I can't pick up NBC. I get a 0 reading on the strength indicator. CBS, ABC, and ABC are coming in fine but not a peep out of NBC. I guess something is blocking the signal but I have no idea what it could be.


Rick


----------



## trekkerj

What antenna do you have? If it's indoor, did you try all the possible locations and orientations you could? I had success with my RS pointed up or southeast. Anything else, no signal.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I was curious as to what antenna you are using. Is it a rooftop? did you try elevating it, a taller mast may help. I also wanted to ask if you get ch 11/WB from N.Y.it's strang that you get CBS,ABC-DT w/no problems. In my view WNBC-DT seems just as strong as the others w/ a great 1080i pic. but again I am real close and a nice nitch where I have little obstruction. goodluck


F.U.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *I still don't know why I can't pick up NBC. I get a 0 reading on the strength indicator. CBS, ABC, and ABC are coming in fine but not a peep out of NBC. I guess something is blocking the signal but I have no idea what it could be.
> 
> 
> Rick*


----------



## cpto

I have a CM 4228 on a 5-foot pole on the roof with preamp and rotor. I don't understand either why NBC shows zip signal, although CBS occasionally does that too. Even stranger, on rainy nights when I can't pick up WCBS I can usually get CBS out of Philly, which is a LOT further.


I'm thinking of having the antenna raised another 10 feet or so, but I'm a little worried about what the wind would do to it. Plus, I have no guarantee it would help anything.


Rick


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I think you should try that even if you can rig it temorarily on a not so windy day just to see. You are getting other ch from here, maybe something is in your site so height would hopefully give you a better angle. I am watching Law & Order the pic quality is really good and the transmission seems strong. your equipment seems more than adequate for pete sake Im using a terk.your really not that far


F.U.


----------



## trekkerj

Maybe it's TOO strong. Maybe try a silver sensor, just out of curiousity. You can always return it.


----------



## andyng

just put up the 4228 on a 5ft pole on top of a 6 floor building. from the top of my building i can see ESB and other nearby building...using a pream 7777. the trick is to find the sweet spot....it may varies by a very small movement....i found the best position is facing ESB directly, move the antenna to the right side a 5 degree angle give the best signal strength...

now i get cbs,abc,fox,nbc, wb...all in good signal range...no drop out....

My signal can be better but due to the very long cable run (almost 200ft)...it's very acceptable now.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Good job. the big boys put them up high so why not you










F.U.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andyng_
> *just put up the 4228 on a 5ft pole on top of a 6 floor building. from the top of my building i can see ESB and other nearby building...using a pream 7777. the trick is to find the sweet spot....it may varies by a very small movement....i found the best position is facing ESB directly, move the antenna to the right side a 5 degree angle give the best signal strength...
> 
> now i get cbs,abc,fox,nbc, wb...all in good signal range...no drop out....
> 
> My signal can be better but due to the very long cable run (almost 200ft)...it's very acceptable now.*


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andyng_
> *just put up the 4228 on a 5ft pole on top of a 6 floor building. from the top of my building i can see ESB and other nearby building...using a pream 7777. the trick is to find the sweet spot....it may varies by a very small movement....i found the best position is facing ESB directly, move the antenna to the right side a 5 degree angle give the best signal strength...
> 
> now i get cbs,abc,fox,nbc, wb...all in good signal range...no drop out....
> 
> My signal can be better but due to the very long cable run (almost 200ft)...it's very acceptable now.*



Good job! I am quite envious! I have the same equipment, just not the right location! WPIX and WNBC will be my Moby Dick! (somehow that doesn't sound right?)


----------



## MLM

Now that we have CBS, ABC and NBC on the air, does anyone have information about when we an expect PBS's WNET, Channel 13, to be broadcasting beyond its present weak signal to Newark?


----------



## andyng

i know that someone further up north can get 21.1..pbs....i tried but i couldn't get it without lossing other chanels..it's in a total different direction compared to other nyc stations


----------



## bs77

Andyng, I think im getting 21.1 because I have lots of trees near my home and maybe im getting a bounced signal. Trust me as long as you're getting 2,4,5,7,11 at watchable ranges you can live without 21.1 they show the same HD loop day after day after day after day....ZZZZZZ...


----------



## andyng

i know pbs show the loop now but after 12/8 they will have good program everyday...read in the hdtv programming forum..that's why i tried to get it


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *I have a CM 4228 on a 5-foot pole on the roof with preamp and rotor. I don't understand either why NBC shows zip signal, although CBS occasionally does that too. Even stranger, on rainy nights when I can't pick up WCBS I can usually get CBS out of Philly, which is a LOT further.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of having the antenna raised another 10 feet or so, but I'm a little worried about what the wind would do to it. Plus, I have no guarantee it would help anything.
> 
> 
> Rick*



I have two seperate CM4228's on rotors....feeding two separate HDTV's/STB's (Hughes E86's). One of them is higher than the other. Both are on rotors. I'll give you some examples of my reception progress from Philly, as that's where I turned to since NYC wasn't too hot OTA wise back in February when I started playing this game:










The "higher" one, is able to lock onto 64-1 out of Philly solidly. The "lower" one cannot do so reliably. The "higher" one can lock onto 29-1 out of Philly more frequently than the "lower" one can. The "lower" one can ALWAYS lock on 54-1 out of Philly, whereas the "higher" one can only do so occassionaly. Neither can lock onto 67-1 or 55-1 out of Philly too frequently if at all, while at different heights they both lock onto 26-1/43-1:5/32-1 all the time. During heavy tropo evenings, the "lower" one locks onto Baltimore/Maryland/Delmarva stations more frequently than the "higher" one. The "higher" one has a better chance of locking onto the Connecticut/LI stations than the "lower" one does on the same tropo evenings.


The antennas are about 65 feet apart mounted on the side of my house....and there are trees in both directions (Damn you multipath...







) The "higher" one is only "higher" by about 3 feet or so. The "higher" one has a CM7775 pre-amp...the "lower" one a 6041DSB preamp.


My point is: From my experience, even the slightest bit of height changes things where fringe/low signal/tree interference problems are going to be an issue. Even the slightest bit of horizontal placement on a roofdeck will affect things....if it's a touch and go issue. If you have the time....and the inclination....move some stuff around. Raise it higher.


I have the CM9521a remote controlled rotor on both. I mounted the rotor at the end of a 5 foot length of masting....and then put another 5 foot length of masting into that....it's not the optimum condition/setup for this rotor (too much drag I'd guess when I rotate it)....but it's working for me. The "higher" antenna also has some guy wires attached to the rotor...and I'm planing on buying a bearing that will allow me to attach guy wires to the top mast....but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll probably lower the height when ALL the NYC stations go back online at full power (Whenever TF that is.....)


For now it works.


----------



## DTVDAD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *I'm thinking of having the antenna raised another 10 feet or so, but I'm a little worried about what the wind would do to it. Plus, I have no guarantee it would help anything.
> 
> 
> Rick*



Height cures a lot of evils. You won't get a worse signal going higher. You only have to lose time, energy or some money. But, it may be just the thing you need. I couldn't pull in ABC from CT before ABC began transmitting again, went up about 10 feet and whola... a solid signal. The only side affect was that all other channels came in better! Give it a try. Good luck.


Best regards, Adam Okula.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I said this a year ago, give me my locals in digi and I would drop cv like a bad habit. We are in the capitol of the world, and PBS, UPN are not b'casting in the metro area. This is ridiculous, come on if your listening get with the program analog is the past step into the digital future. Dont be a johnny come lately, be competitive.


F.U.


----------



## stuatwork

feloniousmonkey, you might want to try a rescan of locals because I now suddenly get WLIW-dt. And I'm in West Orange NJ. You're a lot closer.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

The mits is an amazing tv in my opinion, you dont have to re-scanif its there and receiving it will come up. Thats how I got the WB. but I'll try anything, re-scanned and no go. when WNBC-DT began I hit 28, tuner said renaming 4.01 and thats it. uh oh, you put a monkey







on my back. Now I need to find a way to get it, 21-22 right? I am doomed(let see, another antenna facing opposite way, or maybe a rotor, beter yet an amp???) what do you think, huh,huh










F.U.


----------



## mishagray

trekkerj told me how to get 11:


I used my radio shack rabbit years and put the V shaped antenna at its SHORTEST LENGTH. trekkerj used about 12" but I think that I have mine shorter. The best trick was to use tune in Channel 13 (Analog) and optimize the antenna for the best Channel 13 picture you can get. Now try to rescan for 11WB (VHF-12).


Before I did that, I had 0% on WB, now I can get a signal, albeit it rarely leaves the BAD zone on my Zenith SAT-520. I do get a highly noisy picture and studdard sound! Before I got nothing.


I live about 15 Miles from the ESB as the crow flies, so you milage may vary.


Also: I had to move the antenna to the attic, this may also help. A roof mount may also help.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

blip~all locals lost sound, a high pitch whine is on all channels. anyone else experiencing this?


-F.U.


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *all locals lost sound, a high pitch whine is on all channels. anyone else experiencing this?*



All channels good here. It would be unlikely for all channels to be having sound problems.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Thank you, I thought the same, but still have no audio ota, the high pitch whine went away and now there is a popping sound when i switch to each ch. I re-scanned, nothing. It started when the prez interupted for a special announcment.


-F.U.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ed Barclay_
> *All channels good here. It would be unlikely for all channels to be having sound problems.*


----------



## feloniousmonkey

blip~that was weird, as I posted lost audio on all channels, rescanned my mits, nadda. checked analog sign. ota which comes off the same antenna. audio was fine (scratched my head like the monkey that I am







and reset the tv. it worked!


F.U.


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *blip~*



What does "blip~" mean? I thought it was a typo but you have used it twice in a row.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Error, my clipboard. Happy thanks










F.U.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ed Barclay_
> *What does "blip~" mean? I thought it was a typo but you have used it twice in a row.*


----------



## festivalman

So does anyone know when NBC will up their power? Here in New Hyde Park, which is only 30 min drive from the city, I'm getting a signal level of 5 out of 100, whereas cbs, fox, and abc are all above 80 for me.


----------



## Ken H

A number of unrelated posts have been deleted.


----------



## rcliff




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by festivalman_
> *So does anyone know when NBC will up their power? Here in New Hyde Park, which is only 30 min drive from the city, I'm getting a signal level of 5 out of 100, whereas cbs, fox, and abc are all above 80 for me.*



They're at full power now. I'm receiving it fine here in Roslyn so you may want to try repositioning your antenna. Otherwise you'll probably have to wait for the combiner in 2004.


----------



## festivalman

Hmm.. so I take it they're not all coming from the ESB?


----------



## rcliff

GE building not ESB. Lot's of reports in this thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=329368


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken H_
> *A number of unrelated posts have been deleted.*



Guilty...I'll stay on track.


Seeing ABC-DT much stronger today. Anyone else getting the "raincloud" effect.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Guilty in the 1st, I will stick to the topic







I noticed for the last few days the WB WPIX-DT has been real strong. No tiling, or drops. There will be some HD content on tonight I am hoping it will remain the same. I havent had a problem with any channels so far, they all seem great from here


F.U.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken H_
> *A number of unrelated posts have been deleted.*


----------



## bs77

I have been getting CBS, FOX, NBC, ABC and WLIW at 90-100% - Wpix is unwatchable for me, comes in at 40-50% but drops out every 2 seconds. (I have a attic installed CM4228 with a 7777 Pre-amp) But Evertime it Rains (such as it is right now) ABC and FOX's signal go on a crazy RollerCoaster up and down 10-100%. (Raley do I have a problem with CBS) I was going to drop the local channels on Directv but if this is going to happen everytime it rains then I must keep them. (I have a great signal on Directv, I only lose the signal when it really downpours). Hopefully this situation will improve in march when they all go to the ESB... I WANT MY FREE TV!!!!


----------



## TAKKL

What's going on with NBC-DT's signal tonight? Is it the rain? I'm getting a strong signal, about 60-70% on Samsung 165, but picture is very pixelated or no picture at all. Is anyone else having this?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

The JT special is in sd,its supposed to be HD. SD material no drops or pixeling. All local that are transmitting look great not a stutter. come on WNBC-DT hit the switch







anyone got a #?


F.U.


----------



## kschonha

Note to festivalman:


I am also located in New Hyde Park and WNBC-DT comes in fairly strong. I would highly recommend that you have a rotor mounted on your antenna.


----------



## festivalman

I've got one of these little radio shack antennas that's propped up next to the upstairs window where my home theater is. It took about 20 minutes to finally get it positioned correctly so that the other 3 major channels come in very strongly, so I dread moving it again to try and get NBC.







Alas, I'm sure I'll mess with it anyway just to see what I'm missing. Renting an apartment and not being able to put up a big outdoor antenna is annoying at times.


----------



## seldenpat

Going off of WNBC for a second...


Anyone else having problems with WLIW (21.1)? I have great signal strength, but no picture on either of the subchannels. Has been this way since last night.


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *Anyone else having problems with WLIW (21.1)? I have great signal strength, but no picture on either of the subchannels.*



WLIW is good on both my Hipix and Dish 6000. What receiver do you have and have you tried a channel rescan?


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ed Barclay_
> *WLIW is good on both my Hipix and Dish 6000. What receiver do you have and have you tried a channel rescan?*



Thanks, Ed.


I have a Sony HD200 and the integrated tuner on my Sony KDP-65XBR2. Same thing with both. Locked signal, no Audio or Video. I'll try a re-scan.


----------



## seldenpat

I have WLIW again. Just came back on. Same signal strength as before, I just have Audio and Video now.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I dont get WLIW, I wish I could I like PBS. For now CV gets my doe. I have heard we wont get PBS (in the metro area) till they actually b'cast in NYC. The WB which I do get has a Christina Aguilera Stripped in London tonight, I think its a re-peat not sure but does anyone have info. that it *could* be in HD? thank you


f


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *I dont get WLIW, I wish I could I like PBS. For now CV gets my doe. I have heard we wont get PBS (in the metro area) till they actually b'cast in NYC.*



Maybe Cablevision is different in your area but I get PBS HD on Long Island Cablevision. Channel 713 is WNET-DT with the same HD programming that is on WLIW-DT OTA.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Thanks Ed, but it was the FREE OTA I was speaking of. I am sorry I wasn't more specific. I give CV my money b'cause I want PBS, of course MSG*FS-HD for me. If I could get PBS FREE OTA 1 more reason to loose CV if the pickins get slim







.


f


----------



## Trip in VA

Well, after being told I should have very good reception, I return from New Jersey. Time for a reception report from Fair Lawn on my Zenith HDV420 w/ a Zenith Silver Sensor and a CM7777. Remember that Normal (abbreviated NRML) is required for a picture/sound, and that is between 33%-66% signal. Good is above that and bad is below it.56 CBS WCBS-DT GOOD (few breakups)

28 NBC WNBC-DT NRML (but only for a few minutes)

44 FOX WNYW-DT GOOD (few breakups)

45 ABC WABC-DT GOOD (few breakups)

12 TWB WPIX-DT BAD- (Got it up to about 10%, but jumped to 30% every so often... probably multipath)

61 PBS WNET-DT NONE

30 PAX WPXN-DT NONE

40 UNI WXTV-DT NRML (but only for a few seconds)

51 PBS WNJN-DT BAD- (It would go up to about 10% and then jump to GOOD for a second... methinks it was multipath)

27 TBN WTBY-DT NONE

48 INF WRNN-DT BAD- (Got to about 15%)

29 REL WFME-DT BAD- (Barely got above zero)

53 TFT WFUT-DT BAD- (Got to about 30%)

At my cousins house they actually HAVE an HDTV, and the only channel I could get at all was WCBS-DT and it was breaking up horribly. Plus their Sony HDTV wouldn't allow a manual focus so it was way the heck off.


I also used my digital tuner on the road and took screenshots, but that's not for here, although I almost locked WNJT-DT on I-78.


- Trip

Bitstream Admin


----------



## chap

I find that odd since I am in hawethorne, but get fairly good signals on some of those channels that you got bad signals from, but at the same token I can't pick up wpix at all.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I havent touched my antenna in 2 years. I receive CBS,NBC, ABC, FOX, UPN (analog) WB DT


F



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *
> 
> 
> I can't imagine having a roof top and having to go up there every few days....*


----------



## festivalman

To the guy who mentioned that he's getting good NBC reception in New Hyde Park, I seem to be out of luck. I went all out in terms of putting my antenna in all different positions, including holding it out the window with my arm. Even though I was getting 90% on cbs/abc/fox, and now even 50-60 on wliw which i wasn't getting at all up until then, nbc never once went above 5%. An almost totally dead signal. I tried it on 28.1, 2 and 3 subchannels.. never above 5%. Not sure what the deal is.


----------



## MLM

Does anyone know the power with which the local stations are broadcasting? If so, could you post it.


I have the most trouble with WCBS but I thought it had the most power. If it does, can I conclude that the problem is with interference from bouncing signals? Sometimes I can actually improve the reception by cutting power to the antenna amplifier.


----------



## sjf99

Are any PBS-DT in the NY area broadcasting 24/7?


I'd like to try to get some of the PBS stations in my area (Morris Cty, NJ). Before I start playing with the rotor I want to be sure they are broadcasting at the time. Stations in my area include:


WNETD PBS 13-1-2 (may not be live)

WLIWD PSB 21-1-2

WNYED PBS 25-1-2-3 (may not be live)

WEDWD ? 49-1-2-3-4

WNJND PBS 51-1-2-3-4-5

WLNYD ? 55-1

WFTYD ? 67-1


Does anyone have any information on these as well as any others besides 2-4-5-7-9-11?


Thanks,


Steve


----------



## wward

MLM


WCBS-DT is at full power considering that you are located in the NYC area you may need to turn down the gain on the pre-amp to pick it up.


----------



## wward

sjf99


WLIW-DT PBS 21-1-2 Operates 24 /7

WNET-DT PBS 13-1-2 Operates 24/7 at very low power 125 watts

WNJN-DT PBS 51-1-2-3-4-5 Operates 24/7 at full power


Also check out WNJU-DT 43-1,2,3,4


----------



## joev

Is anyone on the west side of midtown manhattan receiving ANY pbs station and /or wb? If so, tell me how your doing it....please







.


i currently have ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC and UPN. would love to complete the package with a pbs.


Thanks

Joe


----------



## Paperboy2003

SJF aside from the PBS stations, what else do you get and with what equipment. I'm in Randolph and I can only get 2.1, 5.1, 5.2 and 7.1. WHat about you??


Thanks


Doug


----------



## Mattdoc

Does anyone in Manhattan use indoor antennas? I live on East 30th off 1st ave, and have an unobstructed path (north exposure) to the ESB. Would I be able to get any channels without using a roof antennae?


----------



## clsgman

Can anyone recommend a good preamp? Like alot of members, NBC-DT is the weakest signal although I have been receiving it with minimal breakups. ABC-DT is a little stronger 4-5 bars on my SAmsung 161 and CS with 9-10 is strongest. I'm in Roslyn Heights off exit 28 of the NSP.


----------



## sjf99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *SJF aside from the PBS stations, what else do you get and with what equipment. I'm in Randolph and I can only get 2.1, 5.1, 5.2 and 7.1. WHat about you??
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Doug*



Doug,


I get:

2-1

4-1

5-1

5-2 (9)

7-1

11-1

53-1

29-1


I have to work on WLIW-DT


I have the following equipment:

CM 4228 - Attic mounted (for UHF)

RS VU-90 XR Antenna (for VHF & FM)

CM 7777 Pre amp (powered by one of my DTV receivers)

CM 9521A Rotor

Hughes HTL-HD receiver (recently replaced the RCA DTC-100)


HTH


Steve


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by clsgman_
> *Can anyone recommend a good preamp?*



Channel Master 7775 for UHF only. The model 7777 adds VHF capability if needed.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sjf99_
> *Doug,
> 
> 
> I get:
> 
> 2-1
> 
> 4-1
> 
> 5-1
> 
> 5-2 (9)
> 
> 7-1
> 
> 11-1
> 
> 53-1
> 
> 29-1
> 
> 
> I have to work on WLIW-DT
> 
> 
> I have the following equipment:
> 
> CM 4228 - Attic mounted (for UHF)
> 
> RS VU-90 XR Antenna (for VHF & FM)
> 
> CM 7777 Pre amp (powered by one of my DTV receivers)
> 
> CM 9521A Rotor
> 
> Hughes HTL-HD receiver (recently replaced the RCA DTC-100)
> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> Steve*



Steve -

I assume that in order to get 53 and 29, you need to turn your rotor toward Philly? How can you pick up 11-1 from where you are?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Try it, you cant loose. Radio Shack will give you your money back







good luck, Let us know.


f



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mattdoc_
> *Does anyone in Manhattan use indoor antennas? I live on East 30th off 1st ave, and have an unobstructed path (north exposure) to the ESB. Would I be able to get any channels without using a roof antennae?*


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sjf99_
> *Doug,
> 
> 
> I get:
> 
> 2-1
> 
> 4-1
> 
> 5-1
> 
> 5-2 (9)
> 
> 7-1
> 
> 11-1
> 
> 53-1
> 
> 29-1
> 
> 
> I have to work on WLIW-DT
> 
> 
> I have the following equipment:
> 
> CM 4228 - Attic mounted (for UHF)
> 
> RS VU-90 XR Antenna (for VHF & FM)
> 
> CM 7777 Pre amp (powered by one of my DTV receivers)
> 
> CM 9521A Rotor
> 
> Hughes HTL-HD receiver (recently replaced the RCA DTC-100)
> 
> 
> HTH
> 
> 
> Steve*



Are you getting 4 and 11 without drop outs? It's hard to believe, but a testament to the CM4228 that you get all those stations with an attic mounted antennae. I have a (crappy) turk, but it's on top of two masts on top of my house! All told, it's got to be around 900 feet asl!


----------



## AudioJosh

I am pretty much screwed where I am. I only get the WPIX channels, that's it. Analog channels come in really really poorly. I refuse to pay $50 for cable that I hardly ever watch.


I have the following:

Samsung SIR-T165

CM Stealthtenna & amp upgrade.


...but unfortunately I face north in on the 10th floor of an apt high-rise. My CM is out on the patio and facing west but I can't face it SW (towards ESB) as the building is in the way.


Maybe it is my setup, I dunno, but I get one piss-poor channel.


----------



## trekkerj

Try different orientations and try to pick up multipath off another building, or try a simple indoor antenna pointed in the proper direction.


----------



## AudioJosh

I have tried just about every orientation that I could think of that made sense. It doesn't really help.


However, made if I tried a UHF only antenna that would work better, or an indoor pointed in the right direction. I think I will purchase a couple of rat shack ant's and give them a try and take back what doesn't work.


----------



## TAKKL

Is anyone else having this problem? As of 11:25 PM, I am not receiving any signal from wnbc-dt (4-1).


----------



## Alan Malka

TAKKL,


I just tried; no signal either.


----------



## TAKKL

Alan, thanks for the reply. Missing Jay in HD, gotten used to it already.


----------



## sjf99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *Are you getting 4 and 11 without drop outs? It's hard to believe, but a testament to the CM4228 that you get all those stations with an attic mounted antennae. I have a (crappy) turk, but it's on top of two masts on top of my house! All told, it's got to be around 900 feet asl!*



No drop outs at all with the HTL-HD. I did get many with the DTC-100 however. I'm getting 11 with the radio shack antenna since the 4228 doesn't pick up VHF. Believe it or not, I just have it sort of propped up on the floor of the attic aimed in a way that gives me the best signal.


I borrowed a GPS from a guy at work. I'm going to try to get my coordinates to see exactly where I am and to set the rotor up as close as possible to a real NSEW direction. It was just too cold tonight to play with it. I have 2 different compasses and they don't appear to be too accurate. I wonder if I have to add 13 degree to the reading on the analog compass (???).


----------



## TAKKL

WPIX-DT signal between 0 and 50% tonight, jumping back and forth. It's basically unwatchable. Also noticed that when this happens, WNET (13-0, non-digital) is very snowy. It must be interference. What the heck is WPIX doing wrong? Anyone notice this?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I am watching "ANGEL" right now in 5.1 it looks great. No drops or pixeling. Excellent! I just need WOR-DT & PBS










F


----------



## MichaelN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sjf99_
> *No drop outs at all with the HTL-HD. I did get many with the DTC-100 however. I'm getting 11 with the radio shack antenna since the 4228 doesn't pick up VHF. Believe it or not, I just have it sort of propped up on the floor of the attic aimed in a way that gives me the best signal.
> *



Hi Steve,


I've taken great interest in your last few messages, since I too live in Rockaway (Townsquare Village). Although I've been into home theater for a while, I'm new to HDTV. Indeed, I will be getting my first HDTV receiver when the Dish Network 921 Receiver becomes available in the next few weeks. The receiver also allows for OTA reception via an antenna, which I'll need for most of the local stations.


I am inclined to educate myself about the same equipment that you have successfully installed, and do a similar setup in my attic, connected to my 921.


At the same time, I want to investigate the possibility of a roof mounted antenna. I need to get a copy of, and look closely at, my association by-laws (which do allow for the little dishes), and make a decision about whether its worth it or necessary to fight over. (I am aware of the FCC regulations which should preempt most restrictive covenants).


I'm interested in your (and anyone else's) take on the roof vs. attic decision; whether you have any dissatisfaction with the attic setup; what the difference in price would be for an antenna that would be adequate for my roof, i.e., cheaper or more expensive than an attic setup; and what size the roof antenna would need to be.


Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can provide!


P.S. Apologies if this is going off-topic.


----------



## TAKKL

feloniousmonkey,

What signal strength were you getting? When it's working correctly, I get about 70%, but now it's down to ZERO. I'm also in Brooklyn, at 11218.


I've switched from roof antenna to silver sensor and still the same results. The roof antenna is a great for vhf. I know the silver sensor is for uhf, but it still picks up a decent vhf signal. With it, I can still pickup analog signal from channel 7 and up. Does anyone know if WPIX is doing something?


----------



## TAKKL

feloniousmonkey, forgot to add, how's your channel 13 reception? Mine is almost pure snow, color comes in and out.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Takkl, I'm in 23, I receive 2,4,5 sub 9, 7 11 & subs. I dont get 13(PBS) or 21 22, they are at little or no power for the metro-NYC are. If you can go with a roof antenna go with that. If condition is right and you dont have any major obstructions use a 6' mast I'd go as high as you can safely go and use a dual band antenna uhf/vhf. You should get the ch I receive. But remember I have little obstruction and use a reg. terk or turk whatever its called 35 antenna. It works, I'll upgrade when it doesn't. Good luck.


f


----------



## sjf99

I'm in Rockaway, NJ (30 miles ATCF from the ESB and Conde Nast building). With my Attenna pointed at 85 degrees east, I'm just starting to get WLIW-DT with barely any audio and a very pixilated picture. I think they broadcast out of Garden City.


Is anyone able to pull in a watchable picture from this station?


Thanks,


Steve


----------



## sjf99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MichaelN_
> *Hi Steve,
> 
> 
> I've taken great interest in your last few messages, since I too live in Rockaway (Townsquare Village). Although I've been into home theater for a while, I'm new to HDTV. Indeed, I will be getting my first HDTV receiver when the Dish Network 921 Receiver becomes available in the next few weeks. The receiver also allows for OTA reception via an antenna, which I'll need for most of the local stations.
> 
> 
> I am inclined to educate myself about the same equipment that you have successfully installed, and do a similar setup in my attic, connected to my 921.
> 
> 
> At the same time, I want to investigate the possibility of a roof mounted antenna. I need to get a copy of, and look closely at, my association by-laws (which do allow for the little dishes), and make a decision about whether its worth it or necessary to fight over. (I am aware of the FCC regulations which should preempt most restrictive covenants).
> 
> 
> I'm interested in your (and anyone else's) take on the roof vs. attic decision; whether you have any dissatisfaction with the attic setup; what the difference in price would be for an antenna that would be adequate for my roof, i.e., cheaper or more expensive than an attic setup; and what size the roof antenna would need to be.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can provide!
> 
> 
> P.S. Apologies if this is going off-topic.*



Michael,


My decision to mount the antenna in the attic was purely cosmetic. With 2 dishes on my roof, it's starting to look like NASA. So far I'm happy with the performance although there are some channels that I'm just missing. I think with a little tweaking, I may be able to get some more.


Steve


----------



## trekkerj

From Morris Plains, I get 21-1 and 21-2 with no breakups with a RS double BT.


----------



## sjf99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *From Morris Plains, I get 21-1 and 21-2 with no breakups with a RS double BT.*



Thanks Trekkerj!


So at least there's hope. Are you using the 7777 when you watch those channels?


What's your elevation again? I'm at 690' asl.


Steve


----------



## trekkerj

My elevation is about the same. I remember seeing a topographic map somewhere on the net, but I can't remember where. So I'm a little closer east, but not that much. I have the 7777, that works fine. Mostly, I am using a cheap $2.00 amplifier that does cable tv, uhf, vhf, and fm. It does the same job and is only one part and therefore need fewer cables. Works great for WLIW, WABC, and WNBC as well.


----------



## Linux23

is anyone getting WNBC right now? do they broadcast 24/7?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Yes right now & 24/7


f


----------



## trekkerj

Is CBS down? I get a lock but no picture. It's also gone on CV ch 702.


----------



## ragingd

yeah cbs is out for me to on cv and ota here in brooklyn


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Is CBS down? I get a lock but no picture. It's also gone on CV ch 702.*




It is off here, too. On iO channel 702 and OTA. They are probably having a problem with the transmitter. Maybe due to the snow.


Scott


----------



## Linux23

CBS is definately down, for whatever reason. good thing i was home early today or I would have missed Joan of Arcadia.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Its up here as of 20 min. ago. The WB went down, a Galaxy tv screen saver came up with a 1-818#. behind the # there was one of those calibration screens. I called the #, they where in caly LA.The engineer said 15 min. we will be back up. they where










f


----------



## robgold

I'm still not getting WCBSDT here in NNJ (near Edgewater) as of 5:20 pm. All my other channels are coming in fine. I tried rescanning the digital channels and moving my antenna around, but still nothing. Is everyone else getting WCBSDT?


----------



## rcliff




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by robgold_
> *I'm still not getting WCBSDT here in NNJ (near Edgewater) as of 5:20 pm. All my other channels are coming in fine. I tried rescanning the digital channels and moving my antenna around, but still nothing. Is everyone else getting WCBSDT?*



They're live


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by robgold_
> *I'm still not getting WCBSDT here in NNJ (near Edgewater) as of 5:20 pm. All my other channels are coming in fine. I tried rescanning the digital channels and moving my antenna around, but still nothing. Is everyone else getting WCBSDT?*



Coming in clear in this part of NJ.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Something is up here, my mits receiver has detected 13.01(PBS). There is NO pic but the virtual ID comes up. Can something be good on the horizon? Another OTA HD ch just in time for X-Mas







-anyone else seeing this?


----------



## sting0r

I doubt they did anything to make the signal stronger. Probably just the clouds / snow having an atmospheric effect on the signal. A week or so back it was really rainy out one day and I was getting tons of philly stations. It seems that clouds help to bounce around the rf signals.....


----------



## feloniousmonkey

ahh, but keep in mind, this never happened, clouds,storms, tropo, what have you. I always check for PBS-I'm compulsive like that. I have lost ch's during adverse weather conditions, but never in 2 years gained one. Time will tell, maybe they upped the pwr







along with starting a new prg lineup


----------



## UroDoc

feloniousmonkey


I have a ws-65907 with Promise Module and I'm still not receiving 13.01. (I just tried) I do receive WNJN (all 5 channels) but for me the PSIP is 52.01,02,03,04,05(HD) NOT 51.01,02,03,04,05 which is the official PSIP.


Do you receive WNJN ??? What PSIP do you get??


Right now they have a HD special from Mobile Alabama on gardening architecture.


Current equipment:

Mitsubishi ws-65907

Promise Module

Mitsubishi HD-2000U

Channel Master 4248

Channel Master CM7777

Channel Master 9521A Rotator


PS

I assume you like the music of Thelonious Monk


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I dont get WNJN. When the WB began b'casting again, I hit 11 and it came up, I'm not sure of its PSIP or any other-when ABC & NBC-DT went live I did the same. I think CBS is 45, if I hit that my tuner says changing it to 2.01. Can you tell me the correct PSIP for my local 13 (pbs) which should be WNET right? I get a blank screen right now, bit she reads 13.01 and stops there after 12.01 a sub of 11 the WB.BTW I love the music man










fmonkey



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *feloniousmonkey
> 
> 
> I have a ws-65907 with Promise Module and I'm still not receiving 13.01. (I just tried) I do receive WNJN (all 5 channels) but for me the PSIP is 52.01,02,03,04,05(HD) NOT 51.01,02,03,04,05 which is the official PSIP.
> 
> 
> Do you receive WNJN ??? What PSIP do you get??
> 
> 
> Right now they have a HD special from Mobile Alabama on gardening architecture.
> 
> 
> Current equipment:
> 
> Mitsubishi ws-65907
> 
> Promise Module
> 
> Mitsubishi HD-2000U
> 
> Channel Master 4248
> 
> Channel Master CM7777
> 
> Channel Master 9521A Rotator
> 
> 
> PS
> 
> I assume you like the music of Thelonious Monk*


----------



## UroDoc

feloniousmonkey


Check this thread for the stations available, their original channel and their current channel.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...42#post3017342 


You can also go to www.antennaweb.org for your site specific info.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Mike, thanks for reaching out, cool links







I'm going to call & or write to PBS mon. Do you know of there projected date to go live? BTW I still have a lock on 13.01-NO PIC. hopefully it comes sooner than later.


peace



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *feloniousmonkey
> 
> 
> Check this thread for the stations available, their original channel and their current channel.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...42#post3017342
> 
> 
> You can also go to www.antennaweb.org for your site specific info.*


----------



## dturturro

I'm using a Zenith HD230 on LI and I am only getting guide data for WCBS. I got guide data for WPIX a little while back. Does anyone know if other networks plan on adding guide data to there broadcasts?


----------



## TAKKL

Anyone know what channel 66 is? When scanning on samsung sirt165, it detects a signal, but then loses it and switches to analog. Just curious if anyone would know since it's not listed in antennaweb.org.


----------



## wward

TAKKL


You may be picking up WUVP-DT out of Vineland NJ I pick this station up from time to time it is a Univision affiliate.


----------



## Aceman

Folks,


I'm 45 miles from PA, 45 miles from NY. I've been receiving abc,cbs,nbc, fox,pbs, and a couple other stations from Philly for over a year now.

Just saw that NY was up and running so went to antennaweb.org, found out where to point the antenna, moved it (attic mounted winegaurd deep fringe model 9095 or something like that).


When I tried to see what channels my DTC100 could lock onto, just cbs and fox. Any thoughts/comments??? Are the stations actually up (and if so, are they broadcasting at full strength?)???


thx for any info.


Aceman


----------



## trekkerj

ABC is broadcasting at 222 kW, NBC is low power.


----------



## TAKKL

For anyone,


Why does cbs-dt show sd material with gray side bars when other dt channels do not?


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TAKKL_
> *For anyone,
> 
> 
> Why does cbs-dt show sd material with gray side bars when other dt channels do not?*



Because the gray bars are more widescreen tv friendly then the black ones. If you have burn-in concerns and watch a lot of the digital channel when it isn't broadcasting in 16:9, the gray bars are a better alternative. Some of their engineers must own widescreen tvs.


----------



## wward

Well will the wonders ever cease; I just read this morning that WPIX-DT will be broadcasting the Yule Log Christmas program in HD this year.


Also on the grey bars thing the grey bars are shown during locally produced programming. Network programming will have the Black bars when non 16x9 network programming is being broadcast.


----------



## George Thompson

For you techies that are curious about the radiation pattern of the Dielectric antenna on ESB here is a link.
http://www.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/polarplot....848&p253=1.00 

Notice the null going out over the water. A strange pattern indeed.

GT


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Thanks, this is Great'=


fmonkey



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *For you techies that are curious about the radiation pattern of the Dielectric antenna on ESB here is a link.
> http://www.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/polarplot....848&p253=1.00
> 
> Notice the null going out over the water. A strange pattern indeed.
> 
> GT*


----------



## Infominister

Uh, oh. Looks like certain northeastern areas are in a null. That would be a major disappointment following my inability to get a signal in Cortlandt from the temporary transmitter on the GE Building.


----------



## George Thompson

A little bit more clarification may be in order. This is a simple polarplot in freespace. Usually the antenna is put on a spindle or turntable and rf readings are taken at numerous monitoring positions located in a linear plane as the antenna is rotated.

You then have to superimpose this pattern on a topo map taking into consideration mounted antenna height and signal strength. The resulting contour map will show shadow areas along with City Grade, grade a and b and fringe coverage areas.

Do not lose hope. Wait till spring for results....

GT


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Well will the wonders ever cease; I just read this morning that WPIX-DT will be broadcasting the Yule Log Christmas program in HD this year.
> 
> *



That's great, as long as you live within 6 blocks of their transmitter!


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *That's great, as long as you live within 6 blocks of their transmitter!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Come on, Ken. I know a guy 8 blocks away who gets only occasional drop-outs!


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *For you techies that are curious about the radiation pattern of the Dielectric antenna on ESB here is a link.
> 
> GT*



George,


Is 0 magnetic or geographic north?


----------



## George Thompson

I dont remember right now. I'm drawing a blank. I will guess true north and magnetic is 13 degrees off. Have to look at some flight charts.

GT


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *I dont remember right now. I'm drawing a blank. I will guess true north and magnetic is 13 degrees off. Have to look at some flight charts.
> 
> GT*



Thanks George. I wouldn't have thought to ask except that antennaweb.org uses a magnetic north orientation so I wondered whether it is an industry norm.


----------



## trekkerj

Is there some reason the sitcoms on ABC tonight have not been in HD?


----------



## trekkerj

never mind. took them almost an hour to flip the switch. Nbc also. Frasier went SD halfway through. Why can't they automate these things?


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *never mind. took them almost an hour to flip the switch. Nbc also. Frasier went SD halfway through. Why can't they automate these things?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



i ask myself that question all the time.


----------



## Tommy Ceez

My NBC reception is pixilating like crazy tonight. Is this my antenna or is there a problem here?

Northeast Bronx


----------



## mishagray

Channel 2 is in and out.

The Signal indicator on my AccessDTV card jumps high to low every few seconds.


Anyone else having trouble tonite? CSI is unwatchable!


NBC and ABC are looking fine.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mishagray_
> *Channel 2 is in and out.
> 
> The Signal indicator on my AccessDTV card jumps high to low every few seconds.
> 
> 
> Anyone else having trouble tonite? CSI is unwatchable!
> 
> 
> NBC and ABC are looking fine.*



I'd guess it's the wind. For me, 4-1 is fluctuating mightly. And I had to re-orient my rotor to get a better signal on WABC-DT.


----------



## mad6c

What happened to WNBC-DT. No HD.


Mike


----------



## KenA

Okay, who do we call at WNBC to get them to flip the HD switch?


----------



## trekkerj

I think it's national, because the screen is not stretched.

Also, on NBC's site, there is no HD logo next to tonight's ER. Thought it was a mistake. Maybe not. NBC sucks.


----------



## seldenpat

Wow. With all of these screw-ups with WNBC, I'm kind of glad I can't get it. Seems like it's more frustrating having it than not having it.




...yeah, and I bet those grapes are really sour.


----------



## jaypb

Just heard on 880 CBS-AM that there was/is a fire at ABC's building in midtown. Knocked off ABC's signal....at least on DirecTV's feed and I assume Channel 7 analog as well. Is 7-1 down as well???


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Just heard on 880 CBS-AM that there was/is a fire at ABC's building in midtown. Knocked off ABC's signal....at least on DirecTV's feed and I assume Channel 7 analog as well. Is 7-1 down as well???*



I heard the same thing on 880. Chopper 880 said that the OTA signal was also affected, so I assume 7-1 as well.









I heard it was in the basement of the building.


----------



## trekkerj

I just checked, digital 7-1 is offline. If anyone knows when it might come back online, please let us know!


----------



## seldenpat

7.1 is still out.


----------



## KenA

Yup. 7-1 signal is down.


----------



## Raiden915

ABC is back guys


----------



## dm145

Now you guys can catch the end of Oprah in SD.


----------



## Scott G

Is anyone having trouble getting a picture on WNBC-DT this morning ? I seem to be getting a normal yet low signal strength that I always get, but no picture or sound on WNBC-DT this morning. Can some please check to see if WNBC-DT is on the air ?


Thanks for the help.


Scott


----------



## TAKKL

Scott G,

Receiving WNBC-DT OTA as normal. Perhaps the snow is affecting your reception.


----------



## TAKKL

WNBC-DT is down!!! If someone has contact info to engineer, please call. Thanks.


----------



## dprharrison

Haven't been able to get it all afternoon. Must be down, or my receiver is down.


----------



## trekkerj

Yes, it's down here also. Guess they are doing some work or something? Does it much matter--there are no HD programs on NBC tonight anyway.


----------



## TAKKL

trekkerj,

True no HD programming on WNBC tonight, but the DT broadcast still looks much better than analog.


----------



## trekkerj

True. (for me, rigging the indoor setup that yield NBC-DT is a pain, so I only do it for HD shows, of which there are few). However, you can always call the station and ask for the engineering dept or station manager and let them know the signal is down.


----------



## Blue Rain

Down here in Brooklyn also.


Blue


----------



## s236

Ditto here in West Keansburg, New Jersey


----------



## dm145

weaker than normal signal. not watchable.


----------



## Scott G

WNBC-DT is weaker and not watchable for me either tonight. It is going in and out. I think it might be because of the weather. I normally get a signal just strong enough to watch.


Scott


----------



## TAKKL

Signal is back to normal. I don't think it was the weather from my part of Brooklyn. I was getting perfect all morning and now. Maybe they put the heat on in the equipment room like last time.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TAKKL_
> *Signal is back to normal. I don't think it was the weather from my part of Brooklyn. I was getting perfect all morning and now. Maybe they put the heat on in the equipment room like last time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yup, signal level just bumped back up to normal for me. It is now watchable. Maybe it takes a while for the signal level to build up when it comes back on the air.


Scott


----------



## dm145

Weird. Mondays shows are 2.0 yet commercials are 5.1.


----------



## berniec

Has anyone started keeping track of who is on what building?


I know CBS-DT is @ ESB, I think fox is combined into their antenna as well


NBC-DT rumored to be atop the GE Bldg (any guesses to when they'll have a 'real' signal?


PIX-DT

running at some rediculous power level on VHF

-anybody know from where?-

-or when they too will jump to UHF and get a 'real' signal?


who is going (or already at) 4TS?



Plasma arrives tomm and then its time to get serious about locking down some way of gettin all these channels since Cablevision cant seem to get on the ball and provide them


----------



## trekkerj

ABC is at 4TS, NBC is at the GE building, and everyone else you mentioned is at ESB. When the ESB combiner project is finished next year, everyone will be at ESB, and NBC/WPIX will be able to boost their signal at that point.


----------



## dm145

Anyone receiving PBS from 50-2 or 50-5? I get video but audio will not lock in.


----------



## trumpace

PBS (WNET) 13-1-2-3 transmits from 450 West 33rd Street. I pick them up just fine, but can't receive NBC or ABC. Go figure.


----------



## Scott G

Has anyone heard any news on the combiner lately ? Are they still on target for this March ?


Any information would be appreciated.


Scott


----------



## Infominister

Last I heard they're still talking about Spring '04, though March is probably a bit too optimistic.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Hey all, this prob. persists. I come hme after a few days out, & ch 4.01 is gone-All other ch are fine 2 5 sub 9,7 11 40.1 are there but WNBC-DT I am not receiving







I checked antenny & its the same as it has been for the last 2 yrs. I re-scanned tuner recognizes 4.01 but no pic or sound. I am left to wonder has WNBC-DT changed something in there transmissions. How could a ch that I have been receing fine since they began re-b'casting suddenly not be received. Any way I'm ranting any suggs would be great-this will kill me











fmonkey


----------



## trekkerj

If you are really having issue, try getting a simple indoor antena (one of the good ones) and give it a try. Perhaps it will pull in NBC more reliably for you, since you are close enough to try that. You can always return it.


As for the signal, they've were working on the transmitter room's cooling unit a few days ago (which is why it was offline for a couple of hours on the weekend). But other than that, the signal is of the same quality and strength that's it's been since it's been restored--i've noticed no difference.


----------



## TAKKL

Fmonkey,

I have about the same problem with WPIX-DT. I used to think it was the weather. Without any adjustments to the roof antenna (high winds included), one day I would get perfect signal, then another day I would get complete drop-outs at best. Also, when ever WPIX-DT acts up, WNET analog is almost unwatchable, but other analog stations are perfectly fine. So my conclusion is someone is making changes at the broadcast tower.


----------



## Paperboy2003

"A broadcast antenna brings the structure's total height above 2,000 feet. The building includes 2.6 million square feet of commercial space.


From today's announcment of the Freedom Tower. We shouldn't have any problems once it's erected! 2000 feet ASL WOW!


----------



## trekkerj

But it won't be completed until 2009. Let's focus the combiner first.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Thanks Trekkerj & TAKKL for the advice, so I get up ready for wrk, with all intentions to go to the ratshack & get a silver sensor or something indoors for some testing. I say to myself let me give this mf'er one last shot, I turn on the tv and low & behold WNBC-DT coming in beautifully.







Something must of been up with NBC, I didn't do a thing. What a relief







, the last thing I wanted to do was fiddle with this stuff. I really felt it had nothing to do w/my equip. Any way about The WB, I get them pretty good,but sometimes they are not b'casting DT, a friend of mine a lot closer to the city states he gets a 0 reading from his tuner on some days. peace


fmonkey-


----------



## Aceman

Guys,


forgive me as I usually troll around the Philly thread. Is the ESB broadcasting at full power? 45 miles out in NJ all I get is CBS.

50 miles out of philly I get all the stations.


thx in advance,



Aceman


----------



## trekkerj

The only major networks on the ESB are CBS, FOX and WB. CBS and FOX are at "full power". WB is at very low power. ABC and NBC are broadcasting from alternate sites in NYC. ABC is a pretty strong signal, whereas NBC is also at pretty low power. You're too far for NBC or WB from NYC, but you might be able to get ABC on UHF 45 @222kW of power.


----------



## berniec

anyone in the bergen co area getting WB off air?


i'm in Hasbrouck Hgts and would like to be able to watch the log but my indoor ant only pulls in CBS, FOX, ABC, UNIVISION


----------



## George Thompson

I may have read these wrong, but from FCC filings.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html 

WABC 324M MSL 222KW

WNBC 284M MSL 10.5KW

WCBS 410M MSL 349KW

WPIX 320M MSL .125KW STA

WNET 109M MSL 2.66KW

WNYW 379M MSL 246KW



GT


----------



## sting0r

George, any updates on the combinder? Does it still look like they will make it in March???



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *I may have read these wrong, but from FCC filings.
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html
> 
> WABC 324M MSL 222KW
> 
> WNBC 284M MSL 10.5KW
> 
> WCBS 410M MSL 349KW
> 
> WPIX 320M MSL .125KW STA
> 
> WNET 109M MSL 2.66KW
> 
> WNYW 379M MSL 246KW
> 
> 
> 
> GT*


----------



## George Thompson

Haven't heard a word. Have an idea tho, but nothing but conjecture.

GT


----------



## dm145

do tell


----------



## Mista_Eng

Hrmm, can someone explain something to me?


I went to antennaweb.org and they listed channels 18-36 being available (yellow). Based upon that,I need a UHF antenna right? Like a Zenith Silver Sensor. I live in Queens, NYC and while reading this thread have seen many mentioning channels 2-13... VHF? Antennaweb recommends a small multidirectional, are there any real good ones out there?


What type of antenna is the Radioshack doublebowtie? and the Silver Sensor?


I'm not sure anymore of which antenna to purchase...


----------



## George Thompson

For digital stations get the UHF. However analog will be with us for many years to come despite the current FCC deadlines. (Prophesy) The VHF designations 2-13 are the digital identifiers assigned to the DTV stations that refer to their analog preexisting channels.

GT


----------



## keitht

Hi all. I have had my HD via OTA and DTV since September, but have bee out of service for 6 weeks while we rennovate the house. After coming back on-line last week, I have noticed that ABC has joined us again! Great!


I have a professionally installed rooftop antennae, Powered Preamp, a remote controlled rotor and a Sony HD300 receiver.


Here is my problem. SOMETIMES, not consistantly, I am having trouble with reception. When this happens, the signal fluctuated between 0 and about 95 (and everything in between). I have been watching mainly CBS and ABC when this happens. Rotating the antennae doesn't change anything (except make the signal go away completely if facing the opposite direction).


What could possibly make the signal change so rapidly and go from 0 to 95 within a second? This didn't use to happen back 6 weeks ago before I ripped everything out. The only changes in installation is the addition of a Panamax 5300 Power Conditioner which the antennae IS running through. Could it be causing the problem?


Thanks,

Keith


----------



## MLM

I'm in Bayside about 11.5 miles from the Empire State Building and have been using an old broken roof antenna I found on the house I moved into about 5 years ago. I receive WNBC, WABC, WPIX and WNYW just fine but have a lot of breakup on WCBS. With an amplifier (RS In-Line), the signal goes repeatedly from 80% to zero. Without the amplifier, it goes from 60% to zero, though sometimes it works better this way. However, I need the amp for all the other stations. (WCBS seemed to work more consistently in September when I started to receive digital OTA. The amp was necessary then to get anything. Was it at lower power then?)


I've tried reorienting the antenna with no success. As WCBS is high power, I think, I attribute this to reflections and think I should replace my old (not so directional) antenna with a relatively small but highly directional one. Is that likely the right move?


My question is whether I need an antenna that is good for VHF as well as UHF for digital OTA, or will a UHF antenna be enough? I'm a bit confused as to what frequencies are being used by the DT stations. Do I understand correctly from George's post that I need only a UHF antenna to receive ALL the digital stations? That's all that interest me for OTA broadcasting.


Any recommendations for a good highly directional antenna would be appreciated. I'll certainly try to get one up before the SuperBowl on CBS.


Thanks.


----------



## trumpace

HELP---OTA advice needed


I'm located in Chelsea at 9th Ave & 22nd St, in a North facing apt.


Using a Zenith HDV420 and a Ratshak DBT I'm able to pick up CBS,FOX,UPN(9) and all 3

subchannels of WNET (PBS), which all come in fine. I also have a Silver Sensor.

However, I cannot pick up either NBC or ABC, no matter how I orient the antenna.


Any suggestions fellas?

Thanks in advance and Seasons Greetings,

larry


----------



## Scott G

What is going on with WNBC-DT today ? My signal is dropping out like crazy. I get a signal and a picture and then my signal drops out to zero signal strength and then drops back in. Is anyone else having trouble getting WNBC-DT today ?


Scott


----------



## Raiden915




> Quote:
> anyone in the bergen co area getting WB off air?



i live in bergenfield and i cannot get WB or PBS. I get ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS.


----------



## berniec

I get all the same minus NBC which i cant get at least not with my indoor antenna


----------



## HDugan

AH, at last can join this thread!










I just hooked up my new Zenith HDV420 receiver to my new TV last night. It's great and easy to use.


About 17-20 miles west of Manhattan in Little Falls, I get a strong and untattered signal on ABC and CBS.


UPN, FOX nd NBC all tend to poop out at the same time. Their signals were too weak during the day yesterday, but peaked yesterday evening.


My old analog antenna ampdoesn't do squat. It only make things worse. From reading here, I gather that it is the signal and not my antenna of equipment.


I'm still trying to figure out what channels are where.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *I'm still trying to figure out what channels are where.*



CBS- NTSC 2

HDTV 56 @ ESB


NBC- NTSC 4

HDTV 28 @ GE bldg (low power)


FOX- NTSC 5

HDTV 44 @ ESB (.2 is also UPN)


ABC- NTSC 7

HDTV 45 @ 4TS


WPIX- NTSC 11

HDTV 12 (operating on an STA on VHF at low power from ESB)


----------



## Raiden915

i happen to put my silver sensor antenna in the worst possible location... my basement! but i dont have any other choice. i hooked up my SS with a channel master titan 2 preamp and it has improved my signals. im curious if anyone with an outdoor antenna living in bergen co can somewhat get PBS, WB, and UPN. do these channels really have weak signal power or what?


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trumpace_
> *HELP---OTA advice needed
> 
> 
> I'm located in Chelsea at 9th Ave & 22nd St, in a North facing apt.
> 
> 
> Using a Zenith HDV420 and a Ratshak DBT I'm able to pick up CBS,FOX,UPN(9) and all 3
> 
> subchannels of WNET (PBS), which all come in fine. I also have a Silver Sensor.
> 
> However, I cannot pick up either NBC or ABC, no matter how I orient the antenna.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions fellas?
> 
> Thanks in advance and Seasons Greetings,
> 
> larry*



CBS, FOX, UPN an PBS are broadcasting from the ESB.

NBC is broadcasting from Rockefeller Center (the GE Building)

ABC is broadcasting from the Conde Naste building in Times Square.


At your short distance, the angle that the signal is coming in to your antenna from the different sources is probably too much and you're getting some multipath. From where you are, you've probably got a 20-25 degree difference from the ESB to the Conde Naste.


If you look straight up 9th Avenue, Conde Naste should be about 10 degrees to your right in Times Square. Point it there and see if you get ABC. Another 7 or so degrees to the right will be Rockefeller Center and NBC, and finally, about 25 degrees from looking straight up 9th Avenue should be the ESB.


This is all theoretical, since I live 50 miles away and have lived by the point and pray philosophy, but I'd like to see if it works for you.


----------



## Scott G

I am posing this question one more time. I need some help before fooling around with my antenna. I am getting channels 2, 5 and 7 perfectly. I always get WNBC-DT at low power, but it is useable. Since yesterday morning I am getting an acceptable signal but it is dropping out constantly on WNBC-DT. The signal goes from about 50% to zero constantly. It seems to be going up and down. Has anyone had any problems with WNBC-DT since Sunday ? Has anyone noticed any signal drop or wild signal swings ?


Any help would be most appreciated.


Scott


----------



## dm145

WNBC-DT was steady for me just outside NYC. My DST-3000 showed 58% -65%. Yesterday I had problems with FOX. I have a indoor Silver Sensor that I have to tweak every couple of days. What type of antenna do you have?


----------



## Scott G

Yeah, I have the Channel Master Stealth, which I am thinking of upgrading. It is very inconsistent.


Scott


----------



## trumpace

SELDENPAT:


Thanks for your help. Orienting the double bow-tie makes no difference at all. I get all the ESB

stations plus PBS, but no ABC or NBC.

With the Silver Sensor in what Al Bundy of Married With Children calls the "Fox antenna position",

I'm able to get ABC, but weakly. This apparently comes in on a multipath since the Sensor is not pointed in the direction where the transmitter should be. I'm located with a line of sight to the ESB and the PBS building, but the Conde Nast and the GE buildings are blocked by higher structures.

BTW, I'm on the 14th floor.


----------



## berniec

anyone have any clue when PIX plans to go over to UHF..i'm debating whether its worth it to get a decent VHF antenna and the pre amps needed to pull it in or just wait it out if its not gonne be much longer thill they are on UHF


----------



## wward

trumpace


Try tilting your Silver Sensor back on its rear with the tip facing straight up and then face the antenna in the multipath direction you were speaking of. See if that works.


----------



## DynoMutt

I can currently get WCBS-DT 56 with good signal

and with few breakups from Brewster, NY 10509


Fox comes in, but with frequent breakups.

ABC and NBC don't come in at all, I think their

power levels are too low to reach me.


A check of available OTA channels on antennaweb

for my current address does not list WCBS-DT as being

available, but it does list WCBS analog/Ch 2 VHF.


I understand it's currently winter so I could have trouble

with reception come spring.


I'm using a ChannelMaster 4228 UHF antenna with 7778 preamp

and 25 db distribution amp on a 10' tripod-mounted pole on my roof.


Should I reasonably expect to be able to receive WABC, WNBC,

WNYW, WPIX, WNET when/if the ESB Combiner is put in next spring?


----------



## mishagray




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by berniec_
> *anyone have any clue when PIX plans to go over to UHF..i'm debating whether its worth it to get a decent VHF antenna and the pre amps needed to pull it in or just wait it out if its not gonne be much longer thill they are on UHF*



Rumors are saying March. I believe that they are paricipating in the ESB Combiner, which will combine all the NYC DTV channels to a single antenna on the Empire State Building.


I did have some success in getting WPIX-DT, but not good enough to get a stable signal:

1) Tune your TV to the ANALOG version of Channel 13 (which is 1 VHF Channel away from 12). You can also try Channel 11.

2) Take your VHF Rabbit ears (Mine was a powered radio shack rabbit-ear set purchase for about $30) and push the antennas ALMOST ALL THE WAY in (to the almost shortest setting) and adjust until the Channel 13 picture looks watchable.


Now see if you can get a DTV signal on the HDTV receiver. You SHOULD be able to pickup at least a low quality signal, and maybe even luckier to get a signal. Tune using the signal monitor on your HTDV receiver and cross your fingers. My antenna is in my attic which I believe helps.


I recently switch to a Silver Sensor, which is a UHF only. All my UHF-DTV channels boosted in strength, but I have completely lost WPIX. (it was unwatchable for me anyways).


I got a quote for a antenna installer to install a roof annenna with rotor. It came out to about $700 total, and since there was NO guarantee that I would even GET WPIX when I was done, I passed. I get almost perfect WNBC,WABC,WCBS at there lowered strenths today- using an inside antenna. Based on that I am waiting for the combiner. It should make then all perfect!


----------



## UroDoc

DvnoMutt


What is your distance from the ESB?? I would have thought that you would be able to receive the channels with your current setup.


I'm about 25 miles from the ESB and I receive the digital channels for CBS, NBC, ABC, UPN, WPIX and a New Jersy PBS (52). I have a ChannelMaster 4248 with a 7777 preamp and 9521A rotator. ( I/m sure I could get additional stations I just haven't had the time to search with the rotator. All the above stations are on the same antenna alignment.


My signal goes directly to my HDTV tuner (Mitsubishi Promise Module). I would try to run the signal bypassing the distribution amp. That may be the problem.

The ChannelMaster 7777 has somewhat higher gain versus the 7778 (26 db vs 23 db) and lower noise (2.0 db vs 2.2 db). I don't know whether or not that would be a significant difference.


Berniec:


I'm receiving WPIX without any problems with a UHF only antenna (ChannelMaster 4248) and ChannelMaster preamp (7777) 25 miles from the ESB. If and when the stations return to their original VHF stations I will simply add a VHF antenna to my current setup.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Hey peeps, WABC-DT dropping & freezing here like crazy. Any one else experiencing this. This sucks right before the game and a packed house.


fmonkey-


----------



## vruiz

Yeah, me too. The signal fluctuates between 0 and 60% and it' doesn't lock in. First time this has happened to me since WABC-DT started broadcasting from Conde Nast.


----------



## TAKKL

Left a voice mail on their main number (212.456.1000) complaining about the sporatic signal strength. If someone has a direct line to engineering, please post.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Thanks man, glad some one else is receiving this nonsense also (assuring me its not my equipment). I think it happened one other time before. They have perfect timing over there, I mean pick the day time when the soaps are on to pull this crap. Hope they are aware of this, I'm noticing the drops more frequently now. peace


fmonkey-


----------



## Raiden915

aww man, im gonna have to watch monday nite football on analog cable.. BOOOO!


----------



## robgold

I'm having trouble with WABCDT also. Are they doing some work with the antenna or something?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Yuk, You mean I got to free style some ota analog? Oh this is terrible










f


----------



## dm145

Anyone having this problem via cableor is it just OTA?


----------



## vruiz

Signal on TWC is fine. They get it via fiber anyway.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Lucky *******s those TWC folks







..I feel helpless 21 min. to game time & that dreaded analog is going to be our only resort







..I know, I'm spoiled..but feel robbed


fmonkey-


----------



## gene0809

same in garen city...abc all over the place


----------



## Sir_Mark

Hempstead here....OTA for ABC-DT won't lock...signal all over the place....using Dish6000.


----------



## TAKKL

Okay people. It's been confirmed that someone did something that is causing this. Start calling.


----------



## wojtek

no ABC OTA signal in Jersey City, right across the NY Harbor.


Sux.


----------



## s236

No Monday Night Football on ABC here in Hazlet, NJ










Tony


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I called the # TAKKL, thanks bud.. got transfered all over the place, ended up at "the audience information vm. I left a message. Does a direct line exist?


f


----------



## marksn1

No ABC HD in Hackensack. Looks like Im relegated to the dreaded SD signal. Bad timing. I agree, why couldnt this happen during "soap time".


----------



## nyrmanny

No signal here, picture comes in and out every 2-5 minutes, and I get it unmapped, not on 7-1


----------



## TAKKL

Yup same crappy voicemail. Asked operator to transfer to broadcast engineering, but no one picked up, and she would not give me the direct number (policy). anyway, tonight, highdef MNF is dead, for OTA customers. Major let-down tonight. Switching to NBC for Vegas.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

The mapping on my mits's tuner is completely off, the id shows 4 ch 7.01's with a Spanish networks prg. got to re-scan after the game. peace out


fmonkey-


----------



## fourthstooge

any info? theories?


----------



## dm145

A lot of reports around the US about MNF. It does not make sense.


----------



## beatles6

I usually get a 100 signal on WABC-DT here in Staten Island but can't lock it in at all tonight. Someone is asleep at the switch over there.


----------



## Ken Ross

I'm having the same problem. The signal stength is all over the place. I decided to get ABC from WTNH tonight until WABC gets fixed.


----------



## beatles6

WABC-DT is now of the air. The signal was jumping all over the place but now it is a flat 0. Hopefully that means they have found the problem and are working to fix it. What timing!!


----------



## fourthstooge

reminds me of an overly dramatic, really bad dying scene.


----------



## gene0809

Checked at 5;30am....still no 7-1.....


----------



## s236

Still nothing here in Jersey. Does anybody know what the problem ABC is having?


Tony


----------



## mishagray




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *DvnoMutt
> 
> 
> 
> .... If and when the stations return to their original VHF stations I will simply add a VHF antenna to my current setup.*



That would be never. ALL channels are moving the UHF band in the transition to ATSC (HDTV). The Government really wants to shutdown the VHF spectrum and auction it off for lots of money.

The channel "designator" is just technical magic. WABC displays a "7.1" in your channel lineup but it does not, nor will it ever, broadcast from the VHF channel 7 spectrum.


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mishagray_
> *That would be never. ALL channels are moving the UHF band in the transition to ATSC (HDTV). The Government really wants to shutdown the VHF spectrum and auction it off for lots of money.
> *



This is not accurate. It is the upper UHF band (52 to 69?) that will be going away. Vhf channels 7 to 13 are definitely staying. I do not think a final decision on 2 to 6 has been made.


----------



## trumpace

SELDENPAT & WWARD


Thanks again for your help.

I discarded the DBT in favor of the Silver Sensor because the former is not directional enough.

Following your advice, rotating the Silver Sensor I was finally able to pick up ABC, but on an

iffy inconsistant basis. From this forum I learned that ABC seemed to be having transmission

problems, so that may have accounted for the problems I was having,

However I had absolutely no luck in picking up NBC.

I read somewhere that WNYE-DT (25) transmits from the ESB. Is this true?

I get a line-of-sight shot at the ESB and am still not able to pick it up.


----------



## mishagray




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ed Barclay_
> *This is not accurate. It is the upper UHF band (52 to 69?) that will be going away. Vhf channels 7 to 13 are definitely staying. I do not think a final decision on 2 to 6 has been made.*



Really? I didn't realize that.

So does this mean that we may have ATSC broadcasts in the VHF spectrum in the future? It seems to me that all the ATSC allocations have been in the UHF spectrum. Or is this just because UHF offers a larger signal footprint? Not sure about that.


----------



## vruiz

Just spoke to Kurt Hanson, head of Engineering at WABC and he said they were having problems with the transmitter last night and finally had to shut it down. He expects to be back on the air by this evening.


----------



## Infominister

Hanson's the man who would know. Any other speculation or "inside" information in this thread about the shutdown would be unreliable.


----------



## wward

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I read somewhere that WNYE-DT (25) transmits from the ESB. Is this true?

I get a line-of-sight shot at the ESB and am still not able to pick it up.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


trumpace


Yes WNYE-DT should be broadcasting they are on channel 24.


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Yes WNYE-DT should be broadcasting they are on channel 24.*



To the best of my knowledge, WNYE-DT has not been on the air for over two years. They were broadcasting from Brooklyn at that time.


----------



## wward

Ed Barclay


You are probably right I know prior to 9/11 they were broadcasting I figured they may still be now, but at low power. i can only receive the analog channel.


----------



## Scott G

What is going on with WABC-DT ? They just came back on the air and their signal is bouncing all over the place again. My signal is going up and down and the picture is freezing and pixelizing and unwatchable. It is just like last night. How is everyone else's WABC-DT ?


Scott


----------



## vruiz

Tell them. Call (212) 456-1000 and ask for Kurt Hanson.


If this thing is not fixed by the time Line of Fire comes I'll be really pissed.


----------



## Raiden915

ABC is unstable here too


----------



## Scott G

What a disaster WABC-DT has become. After them turning it off for nearly an entire day you would think they would have fixed it. Right now it is unwatchable. The signal is bouncing up and down so much it is just freezing constantly.


Scott


----------



## seldenpat

Good thing I kept that monster RS pointed towards CT...Was able to see the Raiders get spanked in all the HD Glory last night!


Based on little things happening like this, I may keep it there until the Freedom Tower is the home for the locals!


----------



## seldenpat

What's the deal with WOR (UPN) when the combiner is complete?

Will they be broadcasting again on 38, or are they going to remain a sub of 44?


----------



## vruiz

Well, has anybody called WABC to tell them how their signal is behaving? If you don't then you have no right to complain.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Ok here in Brooklyn for WABC-DT, no drops. Unfortunately I now lost WNBC-DT







What is going on, this is like a catch 22? One comes back, I loose the other. All the while I'm just sitting here and the weather is fine










fmonkey-


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *Ok here in Brooklyn for WABC-DT, no drops. Unfortunately I now lost WNBC-DT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is going on, this is like a catch 22? One comes back, I loose the other. All the while I'm just sitting here and the weather is fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fmonkey-*



WABC-DT seems to have settled down here, too. I am getting zero on WNBC-DT. They are flatlined for me. It looks like they are off the air.


Scott


----------



## Scott G

I guess I spoke to soon. WABC-DT seems to have a steady signal now, but the picture is pixelizing and the sound is dropping in and out during the news. Something is still wrong there.


Scott


----------



## MLM

Boy, that's good to know, about WNBC.


I just put up a Channel Master 4308 and everything is coming in strong and clear here in Bayside, except that WNBC is at zero. Used to be my most reliable, along with WNYW. Checked here and it seems to be off the air. Whew!


What a great thread.


Any word on when WPIX moves to Ch. 33?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Boy, that's good to know, about WNBC.
> 
> 
> I just put up a Channel Master 4308 and everything is coming in strong and clear here in Bayside, except that WNBC is at zero. Used to be my most reliable, along with WNYW. Checked here and it seems to be off the air. Whew!
> 
> 
> What a great thread.
> 
> 
> Any word on when WPIX moves to Ch. 33?*



How is your WABC-DT ? My signal is now steady but the picture is pixelizing and the sound is totally garbled.


Scott


----------



## feloniousmonkey

ooops, there goes WABC-DT, DROPPING, FREEZING. Speak of the devil, I lost the WB also, since yesterday that I noticed







hope they get there act together just a bit enough to squeeze in the HD Log. im afraid to re-scan fearing I will loose another ch. Some ride










fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Boy, that's good to know, about WNBC.
> 
> 
> Checked here and it seems to be off the air. Whew!
> 
> 
> What a great thread.
> 
> 
> Any word on when WPIX moves to Ch. 33?*


----------



## Raiden915

my ABC signal is 100% now, but there is no picture and audio is skipping like a broken CD.







BOOOOO!!


----------



## feloniousmonkey

update: for any one tweeking, re-scanned mits. Receiving: CBS-DT, WNBC,WNYW,Sub WOR,7.01 &.02 WABC and The WB. All ch. look great! Bring on the Logg!!


fmonkey-


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *update: for any one tweeking, re-scanned mits. Receiving: CBS-DT, WNBC,WNYW,Sub WOR,7.01 &.02 WABC and The WB. All ch. look great! Bring on the Logg!!
> 
> 
> fmonkey-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



You mean to tell me WABC-DT is not pixelizing and garblesd sound for you. If that is the case you are the only one I have heard of not having a problem with WABC-DT. The signal strength is strong, but the pixelizing and freezing is making it unwatchable.


Scott


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I spoke to soon, it is







wah, wah..I thought it was fixed-but the WB looks good







oh well


f


----------



## dm145

still pixelizing and freezing


----------



## Scott G

Terrible. WABC-DT has become unwatchable.


Scott


----------



## RZ

Here on S.I. I'm getting ABC at a signal of 74 instead of 84-85. Yesterday evening and earlier today it was unwatchable. Why the drop in signal strength ?


----------



## John Tuohy

Still not getting ABC here in Brooklyn


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Tuohy_
> *Still not getting ABC here in Brooklyn*



Not only is WABC not working properly, but there was some sort of a power outage here in Central NJ.....so not only couldn't I watch WABC-DT...but I couldn't log on to find out about it till now!


----------



## Scott G

WABC-DT seems to work for about 10 minutes (it is working properly as I am writing this) and then it seems to revert and have pixelization.


Scott


----------



## Raiden915

i finally got ABC back. im getting perfect picture.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Raiden915_
> *i finally got ABC back. im getting perfect picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I hope it lasts. I had it back for about 10 minutes at 9:30 and it reverted back. It seems to be working now. Let's keep our fingers crossed.


Scott


----------



## RacerX135

Im in Wayne NJ and I only had the Fox(UPN Crappy feed) and CBS HDTV. Last weekend I discovered I had ABC at 100% then on monday 0%. I just checked and it is back at %100 I hope it stays for the playoffs.



Gary Pranzo


----------



## gene0809

still a few dropouts this am .....better than last nite..


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *How is your WABC-DT ? My signal is now steady but the picture is pixelizing and the sound is totally garbled.
> 
> 
> Scott*



Talk about unhappy coincidences. I put up a new antenna myself yesterday on my 1 story chimney. Then I go to turn it on in the late afternoon and no WNBC, formerly my most reliable station. First thought, the antenna is not working. Every other station is perfect except that since the antenna is UHF only, no WPIX. No surprise--I'll have to do without 'till they revert back to Ch. 33.


Dial up AVS to find, to my relief, WNBC is off the air. Relax.


Wait 'till prime time and WABC is pixellating like crazy. Go to roof and try a few angles. No relief. Problem with the new antenna? Dial up AVS and everyone's having problems with WABC. Put on new "Winged Migration" DVD and come back in 90 minutes and . . . . everything's perfect. WCBS which gave me the most trouble before is still pristine.


All my reception readings with this dimunitive CM 4308 (recommended for me at LNL) are higher than ever before. Bliss. Will it last? Stay tuned. This may be all the antenna anyone within 15 miles of downtown may need. We'll see.


----------



## CaptCapitalism

Is there anybody getting smallville in NYC? I am dying to see it in HD.


I just got VOOM and only 2 & 7 (CBS & ABC) work. The VOOM thread is reporting that the VOOM receiver has issues. I am considering getting a separate receiver for OTA. As Smallville would be a major factor in my decision I want to know if anybody is getting it.


Thanks,

Cap


----------



## Scott G

Sigh. I don't know what has become of our OTA situation here in the NYC area. WNBC-DT is now off the air completely again, and WABC-DT has the same pixelizing and freezing and sound problems again. Obviously, both of our rediscovered local HD channels now have some major problems that have been going on for the past few days. I certainly hope they are fixed soon.


Scott


----------



## seldenpat

Coincidentally, or not, this seemed to happen right after the best reception day ever for me I was actually able to get NBC-DT perfectly clear for a half hour 50+ miles out. Monday 7:00 - 7:30 PM. It was probably some Tropo, but did ABC and NBC try to up the juice on Monday and then fry their transmitters?


----------



## UroDoc

MLM


You can still pick up WPIX (12) on a UHF only antenna. I'm using a CM 4248 with CM 7777 amp and I receive WPIX with no problems in Westbury, LI (25 miles from the ESB)


----------



## Scottie318

Hello everyone. I am new to the site, just got an 811 with DISH and using a Silver Sensor antenna to receive programming from NYC. I have been following the events of OTA in NYC in the post 9/11 world. First off, I think the engineers need to be comended for their incredibly hard work in getting these signals back on the air from locations that are certainly not ideal to broadcast HDTV. However, in my first few days as an active HDTV viewer, I am disappointed to see that drop-outs and power problems are in abundance at the transmitter locations. I do not want to be insensitive towards anyone on this board but being that we are 2+ years after 9/11, isn't it time that a true broadcast tower/facility is constructed. I understand that a combiner will allow for the OTA signals to broadcast from ESB but is anyone else on this board actually in favor of perhaps a 2000 ft tower strictly for television? I certainly know I am as it would become an in your face to terrorists all around the world. While, I will never forget 9/11 and I doubt anyone will, I believe enough time has passed to demonstrate that no one will change our way of life. For many television viewers in New York City, OTA signals of both analog and digital were a way of life. By not constructing new facilities, we have essentially let the terrorists win.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> I do not want to be insensitive towards anyone on this board but being that we are 2+ years after 9/11, isn't it time that a true broadcast tower/facility is constructed.



New York/New Jersey was suppose to put one up in Bayonne, NJ but I haven't heard anything in a long time. Anyone here have more information on this?


Tony


----------



## wward

The Bayonne project is basically a bust. I was told the major problem being opposition from the people that live there and some concerns from the FAA among other things.


I guess the concern being possible interference with aircraft that fly in the general area of the tower.


----------



## vruiz

The Bayonne tower project is dead. The combiner at ESB is supposed to be the temporary site until Freedom Tower goes up at the old WTC site.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *MLM
> 
> 
> You can still pick up WPIX (12) on a UHF only antenna. I'm using a CM 4248 with CM 7777 amp and I receive WPIX with no problems in Westbury, LI (25 miles from the ESB)*



Yes I am aware that it can be done with the 4248, but not, evidently, with the 4308.


But being so close to the transmitters (11.5 mi.), my problems were evidently due to multipath and the folks at LNL suggested that the off beam rejection of the CM yagi was superior to the 4248 (which I was willing to buy) or the smaller 4221. They chat with loads of installers and I followed their suggestion. So far I have no reason to regret.


Fact is, I never watched anything on WPIX except baseball, and by the time the season next year is under way Channel 33 may be back. In a pinch I can install my old antenna under the new one.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I do get the WB on 12.01 in brooklyn w/ a dual band antenna. I am lucky to have very little obstruction







The baseball games in the summer looked great, small-ville looks real good too. I'm glad to have another 1080i ch. Hoping for PBS & WOR to b'cast in the *New York City Area*-merry x-mas..


fmonkey-


----------



## beatles6

What's with WNBC-DT? It is off the air.


----------



## dm145

I get no signal on nbc and very weak on abc.


----------



## harican

I have not been receiving WNBC-DT, channel 28, since Christmas morn.

I guess they're experiencing problems.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by harican_
> *I have not been receiving WNBC-DT, channel 28, since Christmas morn.
> 
> I guess they're experiencing problems.*



Because I was up wrapping presents and remember!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I get no signal on nbc and very weak on abc.*



As of 12:30 pm ABC-DT is fine for me (100 on my E86) and NBC-DT is pulling a big fat ZERO!


----------



## Raiden915

i get no NBC either. im getting perfect reception from ABC suprisingly


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I am dead here for NBC-DT also







but ABC is fine. Could NBC-DT be testing? or they don't realize the fact that they are not b'casting a DT ch.



fmonkey-


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *I am dead here for NBC-DT also
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but ABC is fine. Could NBC-DT be testing? or they don't realize the fact that they are not b'casting a DT ch.
> 
> 
> 
> fmonkey-*



Funny thing is, ABC had it "right" today. I have a _HOUSE_ full of people. I have been showing off my TV's since they got here. Was easy to show them CBS DT....albeit they were showing Rugrats in SD. Then I showed them Fox's signal....again in SD. But ABC....had mostly HD programming _ALL _ afternoon. What better advertising is there than ACTUALLY seeing HD at someone's house???


And NBC is not even on the air. Had a nice time explaining that one....lol...


----------



## s236

I've only had my HDTV for a month now and when I first got it I had CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS HD channels but lately my OTA channels are either on or off! Yesterday ABC and NBC were playing the on off dance and now NBC is out







Is this common?


Tony


----------



## feloniousmonkey

This isn't common, & hopefully it will never be like this again and it really sucks! The last couple of weeks these channels have been flaking out. What about the Lakers, on ABC-DT isn't this supposed to be in HD?


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s236_
> *I've only had my HDTV for a month now and when I first got it I had CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS HD channels but lately my OTA channels are either on or off! Yesterday ABC and NBC were playing the on off dance and now NBC is out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this common?
> 
> 
> Tony*


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> What about the Lakers, on ABC-DT isn't this supposed to be in HD?



I can understand ABC not being able handle both games in HD but none on Christmas day is shameful!


Tony


----------



## rcodey

NBC problem must be with their transmitter.Comcast carriage is okay.


----------



## Scott G

I wish WNBC-DT could make some sort of announcement, or at least have an engineer inform us as to what the problem and prognosis of this is. This is quite ridiculous for a major channel like this to be completely off the air for going on the third day now. I would at least like to know what is happening.


Scott


----------



## dm145

ABC and NBC have both shown that it is not a priority to have DTV OTA. It took ABC two years to go live again, and only then did NBC slap an antenna up. Now they are both having problems, NBC obviously is worse.


----------



## trumpace

SELDENPAT & WWARD


Thanks to you two I've been able to make significant progress in picking up NY digital stations from here in Chelsea. Perhaps others may profit from my discoveries, if you haven't figured it out long before I did.


First, I replaced my Ratshak DBT with a Silver Sensor and found a significant improvement in directionality. For the first time I was able to pisk up WABC-DT, but only sporadically. I had

trouble in getting sound and the antenna position was quite critcal.


On a hunch, I replaced my Zenith HDV420 with my old Samsung SIR T150 and lo, WABC-DT

came iin audio and all. I found with this receiver that the antenna position was not as critical.


I am still not able to pick up WNBC-DT, but, according to other posters, that may be due to them being off the air.


Now, with the Silver Senso and the Samsung I receive CBS, FOX, ABC, UPN,WB and 3 subchannels of WNET. My screen also shows a fourth channel (13-111) but I receive neither sound nor picture there. Anyone know what the latter is?


Thanks again, guys, and a Happy New Year to all.


Larry


----------



## sting0r

Doesn't that guy George Thompson work for NBC? Maybe he knows whats going on. Also did anyone try to call NBC to find out????


----------



## KenA

GT works for CBS. I've had no luck finding a phone number for WNBC.


----------



## wward

Larry


I'm glad I could be of some assistance to you. It looks like the Samsung receiver was able to handle multipath a bit better than the Zenith? Who would have thunk it.


Have a good new year as well.


----------



## vruiz

GT does work for NBC, not CBS. Maybe he'll chime in here later.


----------



## Scott G

Well, I hate to be a pessimist here, but NBC has been off for about 3 days now. Something major has to be wrong.


Scott


----------



## vruiz

I just spoke to someone in Engineering at WNBC and he told me that the transmitter is off and it's not expected to be back on until next week because the guy in charge of it is on vacation.







He had no details as to why it's turned off.


Such a first class operation!


----------



## Scott G

Well, I don't know how long it will stay on, but WNBC-DT is on right now as I am writing this.


Scott


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vruiz_
> *GT does work for NBC, not CBS. Maybe he'll chime in here later.*



Oops. My bad.


----------



## vruiz

Yeah, lo and behold, that guy came back from vacation real quick!


----------



## Swisher

Is it at all conceivable that no one in engineering pays much attention to whether or not the signal is going out unless someone calls and complains? I can't imagine that would be the case, but it is interesting that after vruiz gets through, the signal reappears... When I worked at WNET years ago there was ALWAYS an OTA set on, but maybe the DTV is a second thought at NBC?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I agree with you, who cares about the 3 guys jonesing for some HD. We are the minoroty right now. IMO all they care as that the people are watching there sponsors advertising on analog tv-the majority rules. When I spoke to an engineer from another network, he said he has *no idea whats going on outside* I'm getting WNBC-DT right now & glad they corrected it but again its not 100% its pixaling right now also







Its ridiculous we cant even contact this network, any way *I* cant seem to find an email or a # for WNBC-DT


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Swisher_
> *Is it at all conceivable that no one in engineering pays much attention to whether or not the signal is going out unless someone calls and complains? I can't imagine that would be the case, but it is interesting that after vruiz gets through, the signal reappears... When I worked at WNET years ago there was ALWAYS an OTA set on, but maybe the DTV is a second thought at NBC?*


----------



## trekkerj

I have an email (sent to me in confidence). I will try to find out what is (was) going on.


----------



## Raiden915

im getting NBC too, but im getting pretty weak signals no matter which way i move my antenna. pictures are very choppy. usually i get NBC around 75-80% with my silver sensor.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

WNBC-DT DOA here once again







They are probably having serious issues-cool Trekkerj, let us know. peace



fmonkey-


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> I just spoke to someone in Engineering at WNBC and he told me that the transmitter is off and it's not expected to be back on until next week because the guy in charge of it is on vacation.



This is a joke right? So if this guy drops dead on vacation (hypothetical) and takes his secret on how to turn the HD switch to the grave with him does this mean we'll never see NBC in HD?


Anyway no NBC-DT here in Central Jersey as of 4:42 pm.


Tony


----------



## TAKKL

Had WNBC-DT earlier, now nothing.


----------



## Scott G

This just a total disregard for the digital crowd by WNBC-DT. Boy, if that analog signal was down they would be scrambling to get it back on. WNBC-DT has been a disaster since Tuesday night. They really don't care about people that want the digital signal at all. I, for one, am not watching any NBC programming (including news) until WNBC-DT returns full time. I will watch ABC and CBS. At least those networks care about keeping their digital channel on the air.


Scott


----------



## dprharrison

No NBC DT as of 7:30 PM EST.


----------



## pabuwal

This seems to be NBC's attitude towards digitial broadcasting in general. The O&O in Philly is just as bad.


----------



## robgold

I just lost my sound on WPIXDT. My signal meter reads 69% and the picture is fine. I tried rescanning my channels, but still no sound at all. Anyone else having this problem?


----------



## pabuwal

It's a WB HD problem. Try the 2nd audio (Spanish) and it's like a Kung Phoo movie.


----------



## s236

Anybody have an e-mail address to contact NBC-DT?


Thanks, Tony


----------



## TAKKL

Sent an email to [email protected] . Will post when I get response. Looks like it will be all CBS today.


----------



## kcn823

So much for seeing the final eposides of Boomtown in HD.


----------



## wward

I think you may get a little further if you try this email address [email protected] 


Short of the engineering department the programming department may be able to forward your emails to the correct person(s) for answers.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kcn823_
> *So much for seeing the final eposides of Boomtown in HD.*



Tonight is the "swan song" for this series correct ?!?!?!


I remember reading something about it over on the programming forum last month.


Makes sense for NBC_DT to be down for this finale.


My wife is a _HUGE_ Boomtown fan....and the reason I BOUGHT a 2nd HD setup is so on nights like tonight she could watch her "stuff" in HD....and I could watch my, more important and more manly "stuff" in HD (hello ESPN-HD)


Amazing.........










I wonder if "the guy" in charge REALLY is on vacation.....that _WOULD_ make a lot of sense......


----------



## Scott G

I think it is an absolute disgrace that a major channel like WNBC-DT in a major market like NYC could be down for such a long time. It just shows NBC's total disregard for the digital revolution. If the analog channel was down they would have been racing around to fix it. I am so frustrated by their total lack of interest in fixing WNBC-DT that I sent a complaint in to the FCC about WNBC. I don't know if it will help but you can e-mail the FCC here :

[email protected] 


It is networks like NBC that are the reason that the HDTV movement has gone so slow. If you remember WABC-DT had a problem during last week's MNF game and it went into Tuesday. They then fixed it right up. At least some of the networks care about HD and the digital crowd. Apparently, not NBC. I, personally, am not watching any NBC programming until the digital channel is fixed. Sorry for the rant, but this type of behavior is the reason we have had such a hard time getting all the HD programming we want.




Scott


----------



## TAKKL

Scott G,

I feel your pain. I've emailed WNBC twice today, no response so far. I would be enjoying Boomtown now, but instead watching FOX instead (not a bad game). Well, WNBC does not have my viewing interest either, until it's fixed.


----------



## s236

Scott, I'm with you. I send an e-mail to NBC on this as well.


----------



## Scott G

Yeah, you can call me pig headed on this one, but I won't even so much as watch NBC news. It is a disgrace that almost a week has gone by, and they have done nothing to fix it. At least if there was a major problem, and they were trying to fix it I would be more understanding. But the guy in charge is on vacation is just not acceptable to me.










Scott


----------



## wward

Not to defend WNBC or its parent company (considering they are an O&O) but lets put things in perspective for a minute, Their analog signal is their bread and butter and yes if it were their analog signal that was down you better believe everyone would be jumping to attention to get things resolved.


Also they have just recently come on the air at very reduced power (compared to CBS and ABC) who is actually receiving this signal?


I for one can't and so cant many others on this board and I have news for you there are people in the industry in this market who until very recently didn't even know WNBC-DT was back on the air.


My point is the viewer ship of WNBC's digital signal is so small compared to that of their analog signal they probably don't deem this a major issue. Right now most but not all of the local stations view digital as a secondary service. especially considering the expense involved and the lack of ROI.


I am sure this attitude will change but it will take time. I think the closer we get to the shut down of the analog signals there will be a significant change in attitude.


But in the interim keep emailing and calling them until things are back up.


----------



## Scott G

Okay, I heard from an NBC engineer and here is the situation with WNBC-DT. They had two simultaneous transmission failures with the transmitter. Since this is a temporary transmitter these problems are more serious than they would be with a permanent transmitter. If it was a permanent transmitter there would be more backup to take over, but in this case there is not much backup support to the temporary transmitter.


The first problem was a power supply problem to the transmitter. It was worked on Tuesday, Wednesday and Christmas morning and that is why we saw the channel on sporadically.


After they fixed the first problem they discovered a problem with the transmission line between the transmitter and the antenna. They have to thoroughly test the transmission line before turning the transmitter back on. If they turned it on and the transmission line was damaged the transmitter could be fried, and that would leave WNBC-DT off for weeks.


What I have been told is expect the channel back on this Monday. Now that I have heard the truth as to what is going on I feel much better about this. It was not as we have been told that the guy in charge is out of town so they are not working on it. I have been told they have been working on it, but must be cautious not to put it on until it is thoroughly tested so the transmitter is not permanently damaged.


I certainly feel a lot better about WNBC-DT now that I have heard the truth, and I know they are working on it.


Hopefully, if all goes well, we will get WNBC-DT back on Monday.










Scott


----------



## wward

Good job Scott.


Not for nothing but why is it that someone who works at the station had incorrect info and gave it out as fact to a total stranger? There has to be a better way to get correct info like this out I dont pretend to know how to do this but it should not be this hard.


The other thing that is troublesome is why does it take this long to test a transmission line over there?


----------



## sting0r

Scott, tell them while they are fixing it to boost the [email protected]#[email protected]# signal, so I can get it







I am on the borderline of getting lock on it...


----------



## TAKKL

Perhaps it is the boosting of the signal that caused the power failures.


----------



## sting0r

Perhaps its not enough power that caused the power failures ;(


----------



## Infominister

I'm still hoping against hope that they'll squeeze enough juice out of it to get me a signal in northern Westchester.


----------



## dm145

It's Christmas week, give them a break.


----------



## evilal36

Anyone here watching the jets game It's supposedly in hd but its coming across in 4:3 with white side bars and it does not look like HD??


----------



## wward

The Jets game is not supposed t0 be broadcast in HD.


----------



## evilal36

they had an announcement right before the game saying this game as well as playoffs and super bowl will be broadcast in HD and to enjoy the game. Did anyone else catch that announcement?


----------



## evilal36

Also on a side note does anyone know where I can find a list of channel numbers and station names for all nyc local channels both HD and SD???


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Great Scott! for getting us some answers- At least they do care







..even a little bit. They worked on it *X-Mas day* Thats pretty good. peace


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *It's Christmas week, give them a break.*


----------



## wward

evilal36


Try this link it is always updated with the current schedules for NFL HD games.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=300612 


Also for a list of stations I recall someone putting together a very comprehensive list on this fourm about a month ago, just do a search for it.


----------



## TAKKL

Perhaps the needed power went to the big tree.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *Great Scott! for getting us some answers- At least they do care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..even a little bit. They worked on it *X-Mas day* Thats pretty good. peace
> 
> 
> fmonkey-*



Yes, when I heard the explanation I felt a lot better about the situation. They are working on it. Let's all hope that all goes well on Monday and it returns.










Scott


----------



## seldenpat

No ABC signal for me today. Is this just my tough luck, or are they not transmitting?


----------



## TAKKL

Yup. No WABC-DT, but WNBC-DT is on. Did WNBC-DT take WABC-DT's transmitter?


----------



## wward

Yeah the peacock wooped up on the poor little mouse.


----------



## Scott G

Is your WNBC-DT signal varying a little. Mine signal seems to be jumping around a little and leading to some pixelizing. How is everyone else's WNBC-DT signal strength and stability ?


Scott


----------



## trekkerj

I haven't looked since I'm at work, but if the transmitter just came back online, I'd give it some time before worrying about its strength, they probably need to fine tune it and slowly bring it back to the strength it was before.


----------



## Scott G

Well, they are obviously working on the transmitter. It just went off the air for a few minutes and then came back on again.


Scott


----------



## Scott G

I have been told the power and transmission problems with WNBC-DT is fixed. They are back on the air now, but you may see it go on and off this afternoon, because they are testing the transmitter out at different power levels.


Scott


----------



## evilal36

Thanks,


Tried to search with no luck anyone know where the list can be found.


Ayal



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *evilal36
> 
> 
> Try this link it is always updated with the current schedules for NFL HD games.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=300612
> 
> 
> Also for a list of stations I recall someone putting together a very comprehensive list on this fourm about a month ago, just do a search for it.*


----------



## trekkerj

Doesn't much matter now, since the playoffs have started. All CBS games will be in HD, all ABC playoff games will also be in HD. And I imagine all Fox games will be in FOX widescreen. That's all you need to know. As for CBS's schedule, check cbs.sportsline.com (CBS Sports TV link)


----------



## Scott G

I have been told WNBC-DT is back on at full power now. However, there is still a problem with the power supply. If the power lasts tonight the channel will stay on. If not it may not. Either way, I understand a new power supply is coming tommorrow and it will be replaced. So I would think it will be off the air sometime tommorrow again.


Scott


----------



## TAKKL

WABC-DT back on.


----------



## Scott G

I think the power level on WNBC-DT dropped again. I am getting nothing more than a pixelized mess now. My signal level is way down.


Scott


----------



## s236

Scott, Same here in Jersey.


Tony


----------



## evilal36

still looking for a list of channels (name and number) anyone know where it is?


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by evilal36_
> *still looking for a list of channels (name and number) anyone know where it is?*


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...readid=331964&


----------



## Calabs

Anyone else not getting WABC-DT?


----------



## Archangel

Sorry...just found this thread...and am brand new to NYC Hi-Def...it is taking me time to go through 58 pages of this thread....so sorry if I am asking what has been answered.


Did I miss it...or did someone say or give a timeline on when WPIX or the WB will move digital channels from #12 VHF to #33UHF ?


UPN and Enterprise will start in March 2004 ???


Is Fox-HD what it is now...or are they also looking to upgrade ??

Can not get them...not even a hint.


My ABC (located near the Verrazano Bridge)

has been on every evening since I started which was just before Christmas.


Right now all I get OTA is NBC as of yesterday...ABC...and CBS


No Fox...No WB....No PBS of any kind....No UPN


Are all these NYC digital channels just biding time until the Freedom Tower is built....or are they just having trouble finding a good location for their transmitters...I mean who should we blame here....if any...for it being 2004 and still with many issues.


The Technology ??

The Networks ??

The City ??

The Empire State Building ??

Blame No One....its just the way things start out ??


----------



## Steve Wright

Hey Calabs...


Guess I went back to the darkside and re-upped with Comcast. ABC has been perfect. The quality has been every bit as good as OTA. It was always hit or miss with ABC OTA.


Archangel..Who to blame? Try the guys who flew a plane into the WTC.


----------



## Archangel

Steve,


I fully realize that....and would never want to under-estimate the damage and loss that was done on that day.


But we are talking about 2 full years and almost 4 months....someone or something is clogging up the works....that timeframe is almost two thirds the building time they will allot for the new Freedom Towers.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Anyone else not getting WABC-DT?*



WABC-DT generally shuts their signal off during every weekday morning and afternoon. It generally comes back around 4:00pm. They say they are doing transmitter work during the day, but it has been going on for about two months already. I don't know why they need to shut it down every day, but they do except for holidays or bad weather days.


Scott


----------



## trumpace

While we're waiting for WABC-DT to resume transmission, does anyone know the story about the 111 sub-channel of 13?


I used to get only 13-1, 13-2 and 13-3, but now I get those plus a 13-111 in the upper right had corner of the screen. All I get on 111 is the ID, no picture or sound. Anyone have a clue?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

WABC-DT back on the air










fmonkey-


----------



## msmith6986

Okay, so I cannot wait any longer for cablevision to pickup the WNBC-DT and WABC-DT signals, as the NFL playoffs in HD are starting on ABC this week! I have to go out and get myself an indoor antenna and STB on Friday. Which one of you guys in southern/central Westchester can recommend a good antenna/STB? I am about 20 miles north of Manhattan.

Thanks much! Once connected I will let you all know how it goes...


----------



## sting0r

get the zenith silver surfer antenna, people seem to be have good results with that indoor antenna. I think you can get it at best buy...


----------



## LI-HDTV-Viewer

Is WNBC-DT back on the air or not? I get nothing on 28-1 from Eastern Nassau County.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

WNBC-DT is on the air. WABC-DT was on momenteroly but now they shut down(edited:WABC-DT up again). msmith, if you get the silver sensor from radio shack they will give you your money back if it doesn't work out. I'm not sure of other dealers return policy. good luck


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by LI-HDTV-Viewer_
> *Is WNBC-DT back on the air or not? I get nothing on 28-1 from Eastern Nassau County.*


----------



## wward

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if you get the silver sensor from radio shack they will give you your money back if it doesn't work out.


I'm not sure of other dealers return policy. good luck

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Radio Shack does not carry the Silver Sensor it can be purchased at Sears or Best Buy.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

my bad, I could of sworn I saw it on there web


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------if you get the silver sensor from radio shack they will give you your money back if it doesn't work out. I'm not sure of other dealers return policy. good luck
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Radio Shack does not carry the Silver Sensor it can be purchased at Sears or Best Buy.*


----------



## seldenpat

HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!!!


Thanks for a great 2003 and looking forward to lots of new HD channels for 2004!!!


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Yes same here! It's good to be alive in an exciting time







More HD for the new year. Good day. peace


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!!!
> 
> 
> Thanks for a great 2003 and looking forward to lots of new HD channels for 2004!!!*


----------



## s236

Happy New Year all! Is anybody here getting The WB on 75-1? And where is this station coming from? I did a scan this morning and for the first time I'm getting that station as well as WPIX-DT on 11-1 and 11-2. Picture is breaking up was better this morning.


Tony


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I used to get the WB on 11.01,02 & 75.01 which *I* beleive is there nation wide ID so as you can get 75.01 any where in the U.S.A. Then I stopped getting it on those ch & received it on 12.01 .02.04.06. This has happened to me twice in the year the WB has been b'casting. If anything those guys are not consistent in my opinion but I don't really care on which digi ch they are at as long as I get them. peace out



fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s236_
> *Happy New Year all! Is anybody here getting The WB on 75-1? And where is this station coming from? I did a scan this morning and for the first time I'm getting that station as well as WPIX-DT on 11-1 and 11-2. Picture is breaking up was better this morning.
> 
> 
> Tony*


----------



## trekkerj

I can only get them at night (usually), and even then with lots of breakups. I'm just too far. I caught them for about 10 seconds this morning, they were showing the Rose parade in HD, which is interesting, because the analog station was showing Honeymooners.


----------



## TAKKL

Did something changed at ESB? I'm now getting 60% reception on WPIX-DT (no breakup or pixelation) and clear signal on analog WNET.


----------



## wward

Did something changed at ESB? I'm now getting 60% reception on WPIX-DT (no breakup or pixelation) and clear signal on analog WNET.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nothing changed what you are probably seeing is due to atmospheric conditions.


----------



## trumpace

TAKKL:


Please explain to this simple person just what you mean by "analog WNET."


Thanks.


----------



## trekkerj

he means VHF channel 13.


----------



## trumpace

If that's what he really means, then what relevance does analog reception have to digital "HD OTA"?


----------



## wward

Hey I didn't see anyone mention how they liked the coverage of the playoffs on WABC-DT. I could only watch the first half of the first game. Then the audio and video dropouts started and the picture became unwatchable.


I finally had to switch over to DirecTv and watch the SD version of game from WABC. I switched back to OTA for the second game and it looked like WABC-DT was either off the air or there was a reduction in signal strength I couldn't get anything.


----------



## Raiden915

WABC was running fine in my area and not a single drop out. the playoffs looked great!


----------



## Archangel

Ups and downs....drop outs and pixelation....signal strength issues...it sounds to me like the local OTA digital are really dragging their feet on this whole issue....it can not be that difficult....where they have to make daily trips to Radio Shack for repair parts...maybe they are hoping that there will be some great announcement by DirecTV for the NY area and HD coverage...with that compiled with cable companies carrying the local NYC HD channels....and whatever this Voom or Zoom is....they figure that they only have to look like they are doing something....before someone else takes the effort and weight off their shoulders.


I forget what TV character said it...about his friend being cheap and not paying for a meal once in a while....


"He keeps on reaching in his pocket....but he never comes out with anything !!"


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Raiden915_
> *WABC was running fine in my area and not a single drop out. the playoffs looked great!*



How were you picking up the signal OTA, Cable?


----------



## trekkerj

Not a single dropout for me either. Indoor antenna, OTA.


----------



## seldenpat

Started getting dropouts second half of the first game, so I switched to WTNH, which had a stronger signal. WABC wasn't bad though...maybe one brief flicker every 5 minutes. First game looked better than the second, imo.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *Started getting dropouts second half of the first game, so I switched to WTNH, which had a stronger signal. WABC wasn't bad though...maybe one brief flicker every 5 minutes. First game looked better than the second, imo.*



You're lucky you could pick up another affiliate. The next closest one to me is WPVI-DT out of Philly and they are a little over 60 miles from me. I kept getting wild swings in signal level so it was also a bust. Not that I expected to pick it up (only during tropo events).


----------



## TAKKL

Sorry. Just getting back online...been enjoying the playoffs, halftime now. To further explain my situation with WPIX-DT, whenever reception is very poor, WNET-TV is completely fuzzy. Today, it's been crystal clear. If they made any changes at ESB, please stay with it and don't make any change.


----------



## sting0r

It's probably just tropo from the rain, sorry... Whenever the weather is like this I get stations alot stronger. Who would think clouds help with reception...


----------



## TAKKL

sting0r,

Tropo is a good possibility. I was just wondering if others in Brooklyn are experiencing the same increase in reception.


----------



## trekkerj

It needs to rain more during Angel, then. (Sometimes I spend up to 45 minutes just trying to lock in on the signal. When it rains, it's MUCH easier).


----------



## sting0r

Well, I was able to watch NBC for the first time today, I hope it rains more, so maybe I can catch Leno or something....


----------



## wxone

Did anything happen to CBS or Fox since I'm no longer able to pick these station up this weekend. (Yeah, just in time for the playoffs!) I'm just picking up NJN (51) only now. I live in Morristown, NJ (about 45 miles outside of the city) and used to pick up CBS w/ 80+ & Fox w/ 60+ signal strength and now nothing. Vanished into (ahem) thin air! Does anyone know of any problem or is it just me?


----------



## motjes2

To everyone in NYC:


I just received an e-mail from the Technical Director/Lead On-Line Editor at WPIX-TV. He told me to inform you all the following:




> Quote:
> WPIX is anxiously awaiting the completion of the signal combiner at the Empire State Building. We are operating at reduced power awaiting construction completion.


----------



## trekkerj

wxone, I have not had any problems picking up CBS or FOX.


----------



## jaypb

Anyone in the NYC market using a Sammy T-151???


I recently hooked one up for my parents and for some reason I can't figure out how to get the guide info to operate correctly for each channel. Is this normal? It states what each channel is (i.e. WNYW-DT, WNBC-DT, etc...) but only shows "DTV program" or "No info" when I hit the info button.


Is this a PSIP issue with this particular box ? Or is there some sort of hidden menu I'm missing ?!?!?


I figured I'd ask here first to see if it's "market related (i.e NYC digitals) or a STB issue.


Thanks


BTW---using a RS VU-170 rooftop antenna I'm able to receive 2-1, 4-1, 5-1:2, 7-1:2, 53-1 from the South Shore of Staten Island.


I had a lock on 51-1:4 from Montclair but lost it after a few hours. I was hoping to be able to pickup either WLIW-DT or WNET-DT from their location or even get a flicker on WPIX-DT. I'm probably going to throw a low noise pre-amp up there to see if it improves things!


----------



## trekkerj

I have that unit. So far, the only channels sending guide info, AFAIK are WCBS and WPIX.


----------



## wxone

trekkerj,


Gee, I was hoping it was a transmittal problem. Since you live next door to me it must be a reception problem. Weather is not going to favorable for any roof venture. I'll keep trying to rotate & search and hope for the best. thanks!


Regards,


Ron


----------



## sting0r

Thanks! Send them an email back asking when the ETC is on that and if that work has already begun....



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by motjes2_
> *To everyone in NYC:
> 
> 
> I just received an e-mail from the Technical Director/Lead On-Line Editor at WPIX-TV. He told me to inform you all the following:*


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I have that unit. So far, the only channels sending guide info, AFAIK are WCBS and WPIX.*



Thanks for pointing that out. I"ll have to check when I go back to their house to see if 2-1 does indeed provide accurate guide data.


I will say that the T-151's tuner seems to be more adept at pulling in stations than my D* Hughes E86 tuner does.


I picked the T-151 up on Ebay for $160 delivered. Not bad for simply trying to bring my parents into the 21st Century


----------



## dcarpa

Out here in Hauppauge LI (zip 11788) I can get cbs, fox, ABC out of CT, WLIW, and a few others but not ABC NY or NBC. The strange part is that ABC jumps around all day and then at midnight it locks on and comes in - for the last 2 nights it came in within 10 mins of midnight (I keep forgetting to check the exact time). My assumption is at this point is that there may be something running nearby that is causing interference and then maybe when a business shuts down they power off the equipment and the signal comes in clean. I guess it could be just weather, cooling, or something like tropo but to be that close to midnight twice in a row - Thoughts


DJM


----------



## Scott G

Is anyone getting WNBC-DT this morning ? I seem to be getting no signal this morning on that channel.


Scott


----------



## JGDiablo

I apologize if this is the wrong forum...


I live in Freehold, NJ and need to setup an antenna for OTA HD reception. According to AntennaWeb.org I'm 36 miles from NYC. I'm trying to avoid putting an antenna on my roof since i'm in a development and NO ONE has an antenna on their roof - so I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb (unless the antenna is a small one so I can put it on the side of the house)


At any rate, will any indoor antenna work at this distance (Zenith Silver Sensor) or most likely, I'll need to put an antenna in the Attic - therefore what should I get? I hear the RS 15-2160 seems to work good, or do I go with a larger behemoth pointed at NYC from the attic?


Any pointers and suggestions?


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JGDiablo_
> *I apologize if this is the wrong forum...
> 
> 
> I live in Freehold, NJ and need to setup an antenna for OTA HD reception. According to AntennaWeb.org I'm 36 miles from NYC. I'm trying to avoid putting an antenna on my roof since i'm in a development and NO ONE has an antenna on their roof - so I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb (unless the antenna is a small one so I can put it on the side of the house)
> 
> 
> At any rate, will any indoor antenna work at this distance (Zenith Silver Sensor) or most likely, I'll need to put an antenna in the Attic - therefore what should I get? I hear the RS 15-2160 seems to work good, or do I go with a larger behemoth pointed at NYC from the attic?
> 
> 
> Any pointers and suggestions?*



You may also want to post your request in the Central NJ OTA thread. There are several folks there that live in the Freehold area.


----------



## rh2019

Hi, I am new to this forum and living in Brooklyn, NY. I have a MyHD 100 and Winegard HD7080P and trying to pickup signal for WABCDT but with no luck. I get WCBSDT, WNBCDT, WNYWDT, WPIXDT with no problem. Any suggestion on what I can do to get WABCDT.


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rh2019_
> *Hi, I am new to this forum and living in Brooklyn, NY. I have a MyHD 100 and Winegard HD7080P and trying to pickup signal for WABCDT but with no luck. I get WCBSDT, WNBCDT, WNYWDT, WPIXDT with no problem. Any suggestion on what I can do to get WABCDT.*



You're probably in the ESB shadow. ABC-DT is being broadcast from the Conde Nast building in Times Sq. If the ESB is between you and it, you won't get a signal.


----------



## rh2019

Is WABCDT planning to move to Empire State Building any time soon?


----------



## HiDefPorno

I'm in Brooklyn also and had a CM 4221 on a 5' mast. I had trouble with NBC & ABC. So I went to Radio Shack and bought a 10' to attach to the end of the 5'. As soon as I got it up all stations pegged at 100. Didn't even have to aim it.


Try that.

-Rob


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rh2019_
> *Is WABCDT planning to move to Empire State Building any time soon?*



I doubt it. They have new facilities at Conte Nast, running full power. Why move?

GT


----------



## rh2019

Any suggestion as to how I resolve this issue so I can receive signal for WABCDT?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JGDiablo_
> *I apologize if this is the wrong forum...
> 
> 
> I live in Freehold, NJ and need to setup an antenna for OTA HD reception. According to AntennaWeb.org I'm 36 miles from NYC. I'm trying to avoid putting an antenna on my roof since i'm in a development and NO ONE has an antenna on their roof - so I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb (unless the antenna is a small one so I can put it on the side of the house)
> 
> 
> At any rate, will any indoor antenna work at this distance (Zenith Silver Sensor) or most likely, I'll need to put an antenna in the Attic - therefore what should I get? I hear the RS 15-2160 seems to work good, or do I go with a larger behemoth pointed at NYC from the attic?
> 
> 
> Any pointers and suggestions?*



I replied to your PM about suggestions let me know if I can be of further assistance.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rh2019_
> *Any suggestion as to how I resolve this issue so I can receive signal for WABCDT?*



Won't they move when the ESB combiner project comes through?


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *I doubt it. They have new facilities at Conte Nast, running full power. Why move?
> 
> GT*



I believe you are not correct on this . My understanding is that WABC-DT is part of the combiner project at the Empire State Building.


----------



## rh2019




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ed Barclay_
> *I believe you are not correct on this . My understanding is that WABC-DT is part of the combiner project at the Empire State Building.*



Is there a way to confirm this? Is this the March 04 completion date that I kept hearing about?


----------



## webboy10169




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rh2019_
> *Is there a way to confirm this? Is this the March 04 completion date that I kept hearing about?*


 www.wabc.com reports that they are on top of 4 Times Square. If that helps


----------



## George Thompson

WABC-DT was a part of the combiner project. Everybody involved was sick of the way negations were conducted when CBS corporate parent got involved. You would have to confirm that WABC paid up for the combiner. Why would they spend all that money for a high power transmitter and rent comparable to ESB to relocate to 4 Times Square if they did not intend to stay there. Several reasons come to mind.

1. Politics, labor problems and uncooperative management at ESB make it a headache to do business there.

2. It is a high profile target for terrorists.

3. No body wants to work there. After 9/11, EOD's are reluctant to spend much time in the building.

I seriously doubt WABC-DT will be back. Just my opinion.....

GT


----------



## GOSS151




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dcarpa_
> *Out here in Hauppauge LI (zip 11788) I can get cbs, fox, ABC out of CT, WLIW, and a few others but not ABC NY or NBC. The strange part is that ABC jumps around all day and then at midnight it locks on and comes in - for the last 2 nights it came in within 10 mins of midnight (I keep forgetting to check the exact time). My assumption is at this point is that there may be something running nearby that is causing interference and then maybe when a business shuts down they power off the equipment and the signal comes in clean. I guess it could be just weather, cooling, or something like tropo but to be that close to midnight twice in a row - Thoughts
> 
> 
> DJM*



I am right next to you in Smithtown. I get ABC in the mid 60's consistently throughout the day.

Still no sign of NBC yet.

What kind of signal are you getting on CBS and FOX?


----------



## chrome

I live in Brentwood. I get ABC both from the City and also from Connecticut and they both average 85 to 90% signal.

I got channel 11-1 and 11-2 WPIX last night and watched friends but this is rare, I hardly get channel 11-1 or 2 at all.

I got NBC 4-1 last night and watched Law and Order, a few breakups but that was it. The NBC signal was around 45%.

As for CBS and FOX I usually get them 95% and up. Those two channels are the most consistant and of course 21-1 WLIR?


Other channels I also get is:


59-1 Connecticut (UPN)

41-1 Spanish Station?

67-1 Telefutura?

68-1 Telefutura?

49-1 through 5 Connecticut (PBS)


----------



## Scott G

Has anyone noticed a generally lower signal level the past couple of days. All of a sudden my signal strength has gone down about 15 % across the board and WNBC-DT does not come in at the lower signal strength. I can't figure out why my signal strength would drop across the board like this.


Any help would be appreciated.


Scott


----------



## George Thompson

Probably the cold temperatures. Copper has a way of constricting when it gets cold. Ever notice the length or droop of high tension cables when it gets cold? Well the same thing happens to your coax on a much smaller scale. Sometime retightening fittings will help.

GT


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Probably the cold temperatures. Copper has a way of constricting when it gets cold. Ever notice the length or droop of high tension cables when it gets cold? Well the same thing happens to your coax on a much smaller scale. Sometime retightening fittings will help.
> 
> GT*



Thanks, George. Does this mean when the weather gets warmer my signal levels should bump back up to normal ?


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## little_blaine




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Has anyone noticed a generally lower signal level the past couple of days. All of a sudden my signal strength has gone down about 15 % across the board and WNBC-DT does not come in at the lower signal strength. I can't figure out why my signal strength would drop across the board like this.
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> Scott*



Just the opposite. For the first time yesterday WNBC came in strong enough. I watched Law and Order in beautiful HD. It was still only in the 10-20% range, but my T150 locked in fine with very few breakups.


----------



## rh2019




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *WABC-DT was a part of the combiner project. Everybody involved was sick of the way negations were conducted when CBS corporate parent got involved. You would have to confirm that WABC paid up for the combiner. Why would they spend all that money for a high power transmitter and rent comparable to ESB to relocate to 4 Times Square if they did not intend to stay there. Several reasons come to mind.
> 
> 1. Politics, labor problems and uncooperative management at ESB make it a headache to do business there.
> 
> 2. It is a high profile target for terrorists.
> 
> 3. No body wants to work there. After 9/11, EOD's are reluctant to spend much time in the building.
> 
> I seriously doubt WABC-DT will be back. Just my opinion.....
> 
> GT*



So does this mean even adding an amplifier to my antenna would not do any good.


----------



## dcarpa

Quote

I am right next to you in Smithtown. I get ABC in the mid 60's consistently throughout the day.

Still no sign of NBC yet.

What kind of signal are you getting on CBS and FOX?


In hauppauge I get CBS-NY 70%, fox 80%, ABC-CT 70%, WLIW 85% (and then the others - channels 23, 57, 49-1 to 49-5, 59 out of CT). I've recently relocated from upstate so I'm in a apt complex for now and have a amplified indoor ant that is in the window (not much else I can do). I get blips on NBC but never seen it lock. I get jumps on ABC from mid 40's to the mid 60's but during the day nothing constant that locks on, and then at night it sits at 65% with no fuss and everything is perfect. I use a panny OTA tu-dst52, and a Dish811 (OTA and DBS) on a panny HDTV.


Another funny thing - on my DISH811 I get a audio/video sync issue out of ABC CT that I don't get on the other channels and also don't get on ABC NY when I do get it. My Panny STB doesnt show this - I'm assuming it is from the upconversion of the ABC 720 to the 1080 on the 811 but then why not the NY station (I was planning on selling the panny OTA but not if the sync issue continues and this will be all that I can expect from ABC NY).


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rh2019_
> *So does this mean even adding an amplifier to my antenna would not do any good.*



I dont think an amplifer will do you any good. You are already within citygrade coverage. You are probably blocked by some building(s). Your best bet is to reorient your antenna to pick up a reflected signal. Amplifiers mainly are used for fringe areas with low signal strength which is not your situation.

GT


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Thanks, George. Does this mean when the weather gets warmer my signal levels should bump back up to normal ?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Scott*



From what you are saying that all signal strengths are down, you have to look at the common node which is the antenna and feedline. This is a common symtom of cold weather. I predict that when warmer temperatures prevail, so will your signal levels...lol.

GT


----------



## Paperboy2003

This is PRETTY HUGE!!

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040108/85448_1.html 


from D* at CES


-Doug


----------



## GOSS151




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dcarpa_
> *Quote
> 
> I am right next to you in Smithtown. I get ABC in the mid 60's consistently throughout the day.
> 
> Still no sign of NBC yet.
> 
> What kind of signal are you getting on CBS and FOX?
> 
> 
> In hauppauge I get CBS-NY 70%, fox 80%, ABC-CT 70%, WLIW 85% (and then the others - channels 23, 57, 49-1 to 49-5, 59 out of CT). I've recently relocated from upstate so I'm in a apt complex for now and have a amplified indoor ant that is in the window (not much else I can do). I get blips on NBC but never seen it lock. I get jumps on ABC from mid 40's to the mid 60's but during the day nothing constant that locks on, and then at night it sits at 65% with no fuss and everything is perfect. I use a panny OTA tu-dst52, and a Dish811 (OTA and DBS) on a panny HDTV.
> 
> 
> Another funny thing - on my DISH811 I get a audio/video sync issue out of ABC CT that I don't get on the other channels and also don't get on ABC NY when I do get it. My Panny STB doesnt show this - I'm assuming it is from the upconversion of the ABC 720 to the 1080 on the 811 but then why not the NY station (I was planning on selling the panny OTA but not if the sync issue continues and this will be all that I can expect from ABC NY).*



Hmm, now that I checked today ABC is down about 10pts from last night. I will see if this is just a daytime issue like you are experiencing.


I am impressed at the signal strength that you are getting from an indoor antenna. I get upper 80's for CBS and FOX.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *This is PRETTY HUGE!!
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040108/85448_1.html
> 
> 
> from D* at CES
> 
> 
> -Doug*



The FOX rep mentions FOX widescreen migrating to FOX HD. Does this mean another 1080i network?!


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *The FOX rep mentions FOX widescreen migrating to FOX HD. Does this mean another 1080i network?!*



I believe they will be following in ABCs footsteps and broadcast in 720p.


----------



## JGDiablo

Does anyone have any idea when CBS HD will be made available on DirecTV? A few days, or on Superbowl Sunday 2/1?


Any speculation when FOX HD would go live?


----------



## Scott G

Does anyone know of anyone who can install a rotor for me on Long Island ? You can either answer me here or send me a PM.


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> "FOX's WIDESCREEN(TM) programming, which will migrate to FOX HD programming, will provide customers with a stunning widescreen view of FOX network programming including sports broadcasts



Stunning widescreen







CBS is stunning










tony


----------



## CMR

Anyone know if the NHL on ABC will be in HD??


I would love to see the Islanders pummel the Rangers in all its glory!!!!!!!!!!


( I had to do it!)










Mark


----------



## DTVDAD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Does anyone know of anyone who can install a rotor for me on Long Island ? You can either answer me here or send me a PM.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Scott*



Scott,


Call Mike from A.B.S. Satellite he has installed my complete satellite & antenna farm for me. He's reliable, reasonable and does good work. And I'm #1 on his 921 waiting list! BUS #:631-471-5174 or CELL #:631-236-2359. Please feel free to mention my name.


Best regards, Adam Okula.


----------



## ken34

I'm in NE Queens and I don't know how long it will last, but this week CH 51 from the New Jersey Network has been coming in great. I believe 51 is the DT counterpart of WNJM CH 50 in Montclair. They're multicasting which I guess may compromise the HD portion but I'll take what I can get.


51-1 simulcast of the main analog program

51-4 another non hd program

51-5 PBS HDTV


Ken


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by CMR_
> *Anyone know if the NHL on ABC will be in HD??
> 
> 
> I would love to see the Islanders pummel the Rangers in all its glory!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> ( I had to do it!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark*



Interesting prediction since the NYR won the first two match ups quite handily. But I doubt it will be in HD. We are lucky to get the NFL playoff games in HD. Hopefully we will see more sports on the networks in 2004.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ken34_
> *I'm in NE Queens and I don't know how long it will last, but this week CH 51 from the New Jersey Network has been coming in great. I believe 51 is the DT counterpart of WNJM CH 50 in Montclair. They're multicasting which I guess may compromise the HD portion but I'll take what I can get.
> 
> 
> 51-1 simulcast of the main analog program
> 
> 51-4 another non hd program
> 
> 51-5 PBS HDTV
> 
> 
> Ken*



Yes, I'm picking up 51-1:5 as well. And happy about it. Since I rotated back towards NYC from Philly it was a bit of an inconvenience to rotate back towards Trenton to pick up a PBS HD channel.


This is better.


----------



## dm145

I live a few towns over from Montclair and have beening receiving PBS from their around 51%. I noticed last night it was pinned at 100%. I hope it stays like that and they add new programming. I also noticed WNBC-DT is coming in a lot better as well.


----------



## sfowler2

Is WCBS-DT down? I'm getting WNYW-DT, WABC-DT but nothing from WCBS-DT.


----------



## seaford

4 degrees and higher signal strength - very nice

the weather impact on signal is about as predictable as the weather itself


colder and wetter is better? others have posted rain as a positive but some report lower strength with this cold


i cant figure this


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sfowler2_
> *Is WCBS-DT down? I'm getting WNYW-DT, WABC-DT but nothing from WCBS-DT.*



Nope its up and running.


----------



## JGDiablo

I just purchased an UHF antenna (RS 2160) today and mounted in the attic --- getting great reception on WCBS-DT, WFOX-DT, WABC-DT ---- but no WNBC-DT - can't figure it out is WNBC-DT just transmitting at an extremely low power?


Note: I tried a 10db amp and a 30db amp


----------



## trekkerj

The are at 10kW. You need to be within 20 miles or so to have a chance, and also be in a directionally suited location. Freehold may be too far, but I would try rotating the antenna a few degrees in either direction and see if you pick it up. You need a PRE-amp.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *The are at 10kW. You need to be within 20 miles or so to have a chance, and also be in a directionally suited location. Freehold may be too far, but I would try rotating the antenna a few degrees in either direction and see if you pick it up. You need a PRE-amp.*



It is too far I have the same problem from where I live.


----------



## FMTRVT

I can get 4.1 from my location with a rooftop antenna.


Tinton Falls

Asbury Ave.


----------



## Dannygee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Does anyone know of anyone who can install a rotor for me on Long Island ? You can either answer me here or send me a PM.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Scott*



Scott,

If you're still interested there's a company called Variety TV in Massapequa who do really excellent work. A number of the OTA HDTV people in Nassau and Suffolk have used them. Their number is 516-799-8395. Ask for Bob Jr.


- Dan


----------



## Scott G

Thanks, Dan.


----------



## chap

Is WPIX still broadcasting a weak signal? This is the one OTA station I care about above all others because of smallville, but its the hardest to get :-(.


----------



## trekkerj

yes, 125 watts only. Very difficult to pull in unless you are close. Hopefully, the combiner will get finished in a matter of the next several months or sooner, and they can increase power signficantly as they go back to UHF 33. But, this is what you get for now.


----------



## JoeCraw

Does anyone know which digital signal is weaker, WPIX or WNBC?


I get WPIX most of the time, but WNBC only comes in with a very weak signal (no picture). I am wondering if I should try to point my antenna differently or just accept the fact that WNBC is even weaker than WPIX.


Thanks,

Joe


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JoeCraw_
> *Does anyone know which digital signal is weaker, WPIX or WNBC?
> 
> 
> I get WPIX most of the time, but WNBC only comes in with a very weak signal (no picture). I am wondering if I should try to point my antenna differently or just accept the fact that WNBC is even weaker than WPIX.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Joe*



Technically WPIX is operating at lower power than WNBC. But asking that question with regard to reception is like "Do you bring your lunch to work, or do you drive?"
























It really depends on where you are with respect to the transmitter. UPN coming from Philly transmits an eliptically, so you can be the same distance as someone else, but you may not be able to pick it up if you are outside the pattern. I BELIEVE the two networks are transmitting from two different locations, so where YOU are with respect to where THEY are will play a part in your reception.


BTW - Ayone hear when WPIX will be moving to UHF at higher power?


----------



## JoeCraw

Do you know how WNBC is transmitting their signal?


I am located on Long Island, on the Nassau/Suffolk border.


Thanks again,

Joe


----------



## skyhawk223

Joe,

Good luck getting NBC from that location unless you have a good rooftop antenna and a good pre-amp. No such luck with an RCA powered indoor antenna in my attic from just down the road.


----------



## sting0r

Joe, I am in the same area as you and I can't get it either. I have a big yagi antenna on my roof (I do get around 50% on my receiver, but can't lock most of the time). BTW, how are you getting WPIX? I have had no luck.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sting0r_
> *Joe, I am in the same area as you and I can't get it either. I have a big yagi antenna on my roof (I do get around 50% on my receiver, but can't lock most of the time). BTW, how are you getting WPIX? I have had no luck.*



I believe your Yagi is UHF, if I'm not mistaken. Since WPIX is broadcasting on the VHF band, you wouldn't be able to pick it up.


----------



## JoeCraw

Calabs is correct.


WPIX's low power signal is VHF. When they go full power (no anounced date that I know of) they should return to UHF. (I think they were channel 33)


I have a Radio Shack VHF/UHF and a preamp. WPIX comes in between 60 and 70 on my RCA DTC-100. But it does have bad times when it drops below 50.


Joe


----------



## chrome

NBC 4-1 so far 36 to 45% signal strength and I live in Brentwood, Long Island. So far so good. As for Ch11-1 no signal. On occasions around 5 or 6AM in the morning does the signal jump to 33%.

But after 7AM it drops almost to 11 or lower %


BTW - Variety TV they are ok people. They did my setup. It was easy, quick, and cost effective. Good guys.


----------



## seaford

>>I am located on Long Island, on the Nassau/Suffolk border.


HEY: skyhawk223 & JoeCraw


I am about the same distance as you guys and I do OK most days with all the NYC channels. AND I have the much maligned Terk TV55 which works if you point it flat side towards the city







Every day is different but signals have been strong for a few weeks now (even 11)


maybe the broadcast 'pattern' is important (but i don't claim to know)


does anyone else get fast motion breakup?

the picture is great until a complex image comes on, then it pixelates

I have a Samsung 165


----------



## George Thompson

If you check past posts on this and WNBC-DT threads, I posted coverage patterns and links to FCC filings that give you that infofor all NYC stations.

GT


----------



## DTVDAD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JoeCraw_
> *Do you know how WNBC is transmitting their signal?
> 
> 
> I am located on Long Island, on the Nassau/Suffolk border.
> 
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Joe*



Joe,


I get NBC-DT with a strong signal from a valley in Huntington, so you should be okay. I'm using ChannelMaster 4248 on a Dish 6000. Good luck.


Best regards, Adam Okula.


----------



## Dannygee

For the past week or so I am getting WNJN (PBS) in New Jersey. I'm not sure if this is weather related or if they have increased power. I'm in central suffolk. It comes in as 50-1 to 50-5. (50-5 is HD). Anyone else getting WNJN?


----------



## trekkerj

They have a new transmitter.


----------



## Infominister

Yes, I've started getting it, too. I'm all the way up in northern Westchester. They've got even more HD programming than my usual NYC PBS station, WNET, Channel 13. This is good.


----------



## trekkerj

How can they have more HD programming? It is the same network, PBS.


----------



## ken34

Regarding NJN Ch 51, as I posted in the previous page, I started getting it great here in NE Queens last week. I'm glad to hear they got a new transmitter and the strong signal is here to stay and not weather related. The signal had been useless for a long time. The analog Ch 50 has always come in strong here.


They multicast. During the week, daytime, they run 4 standard subchannels. At nights and weekends, they run 2 standard subchannels and the PBS HD channel. I believe the HD is being affected by sharing the bandwidth with 2 standard channels but not badly. I'll take what I can get.


Here's the channel allocation:

http://www.njn.net/digital/current.html


----------



## John Mason

Can anyone confirm true 1080i from WNJN? NYC's TWC added WNJN near its other HDTV channels several months back (at cable channel 750, with other H/DTV channels at 701-714). Only tune it occasionally evenings, but have yet to see what looks like real 1080i. Mostly is looks like PBS's 480i widescreen. -- John


----------



## ken34

Hi John,


This may help:

http://www.pbs.org/digitaltv/dtvsched.htm 


This is only the primetime schedule but will give some idea of the shows in HDTV. I'm not sure what goes on outside of primetime but the show repeated at 11pm has been introduced as HD where available when I've checked. This may not be everyday and I haven't found the schedule outside of primetime. Could be part of the PBS Loop.


Another correction. I believe CH 50,51 are WNJM (as in Mary) being from Montclair.


Ken


----------



## trekkerj

There is no WNJM. WNJN (as in NANCY) is from Montclair.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *How can they have more HD programming? It is the same network, PBS.*



You're correct that they're both PBS and have equal access to the same network programming in HD; it's just that WNJN-DT seems to run more of that programming. In other words, when Channel 13 is running some non-HD PBS program, I've found that Channel 50-5 usually has some other PBS programming on that's HD.


Anyway, great addition to an OTA HD-starved market. Now if only WNBC would get themselves a new transmitter or if there was some NJ NBC digital affiliate broadcasting NBC network shows, I'd have a full plate with my pre-existing WCBS-DT and WABC-DT OTA.


----------



## John Mason

Looks like I'll have to try WNJN-DT (750 on my TW cable box) at 11 pm for true 1080i then. As mentioned earlier, I've yet to see any true 1080i there yet. Someone mentioned lots of simulcasting with 1080i from this station, but it's hard to imagine they've drained PBS's 1080i fidelity so much it looks like 480i widescreen (my cable-based system).


I get WNET-DT (PBS, NYC/Newark) on TW cable, and the 1080i fidelity is usually awesome. Believe TW cable has a fiber feed from WNET-DT's NYC broadcast site, which means we could be getting a full-bandwidth 1080i source without the reduction caused by OTA multicasting. Just speculating, but perhaps TWC has an OTA WNJN-DT pickup that's limiting things. Are others tuning in good-fidelity 1080i from WNJN-DT other than 11 pm? -- John


----------



## dm145

A lot of PBS's programming is listed as LetterBox not HD and looks a little soft.


----------



## ken34




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *There is no WNJM. WNJN (as in NANCY) is from Montclair.*



I stand corrected after all this time watching Ch 50.










Is there any major degradation of any HD they run on 51-5 given that they also run two regular channels on 51-1 and 51-4?


Ken


----------



## Infominister

Looks just as Hi-Def' to me as other OTA HD programming I'm getting, i.e., WCBS, WABC.


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Looks just as Hi-Def' to me as other OTA HD programming I'm getting, i.e., WCBS, WABC.*



Then s2silber, your situation is unique.

I get a ~Blue Ribbon, Top Notch~ quality on CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX when true high def is delivered, but what I've been watching on 50-5 is a waste of bandwidth.


PBS's 50-5 picture quality is sad. I don't know if it's having it's life sucked out those other PBS channels sharing 50-1 thru 50-4, but I haven't seen true HD yet. Digital yes, but soft and often pixeled. The same programming look better on DirecTV.


----------



## Infominister

I'm just referring to actual HD-taped PBS programming on 50-5, not all the other stuff which is, indeed, soft and inferior.


Maybe I exaggerate by equating it with CBS-HD programming over Channel 56, but actual HD programs on 50-5 do look HD to me.


----------



## ken34

I brought up the question because I do see artifacts during scenes with a lot of motion, etc. when HD content is on 51-5. I would agree that the two standard channels are taking away some of the bits the HD could be using. It's not as good as CBS, etc. but still very good. It's the only PBS HD I can get at this time so I'll take it. Ken


----------



## John Mason

Well, this in interesting. A digital PBS station seems to be broadcasting so there's a dispute whether it's delivering true 1080i or not. Nationwide, some digital stations haven't gone HD yet. I can only get WNJN via Time Warner Cable in NYC, and I still haven't seen anything that looks remotely like true 1080i--including a look at last night's 11 pm show, which needn't have been HD, of course. Speculated that TWC might have signed with WNJN to only deliver digital, not necessarily HD, versions of programming. (TWC here claims to be out of bandwidth for new HD.)


My setup (3100HD cable converter) upconverts all YPbPr outputs to 1080i, and all 480i original programming has a slightly fuzzy, poor-contrast look as a result. (I use S-video for 480i sources.) The mystery continues. Anyone have a STB or display that registers 1080i for what they feel are true-1080i WNJN broadcasts? -- John


----------



## Infominister

Why doesn't someone just call engineering at WNJN and ask what kind of signal they're sending?


----------



## Alan Malka

John,


The Zenith HDR230 shows NJN's 50-5 as 1080i.


I often see the motion artifacts that were mentioned in an earlier post. I can't say for sure, but I think that they increased (or started) when NJN began simulcasting two std def channels while broadcasting the national PBS feed. (They used to simulcast only one std def channel before that.)


----------



## seaford

What resolution does 5-2 broadcast in? If it is just a rebroadcast of an analog signal, does it make a difference? I know it's not 1080 but what if it was? It would still look lousy like it does?


I have to read the Samsung book tonight - there is a switch on the back of the receiver for resolution. Months ago I would use it to see if I could get a better quality picture.


----------



## Remus

I live in Rockland County and just upgraded to HDTV via DirecTV. Has anyone tried the Channel Master 3010 StealthTenna for OTA HD local channels? Any pointers on its set-up?


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seaford_
> *What resolution does 5-2 broadcast in? If it is just a rebroadcast of an analog signal, does it make a difference? I know it's not 1080 but what if it was? It would still look lousy like it does?
> 
> 
> I have to read the Samsung book tonight - there is a switch on the back of the receiver for resolution. Months ago I would use it to see if I could get a better quality picture.*



5-2 (UPN) is broadcasting in 480i (and a lousy 480i at that). An easy way to check is to see if you're stb can change the aspect ratio of the programming. most of the useless substations can have their aspect ratio changed (perhaps witht he exception fo HD programming on 50-5). The UPN 57 signal coming out of Philly is MILES better.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Alan Malka_
> 
> The Zenith HDR230 shows NJN's 50-5 as 1080i.



Thanks, Alan. Then it finally dawned on me that if WNJN is beaming out all those digital variations my cable system may only be carrying a 480i digital version instead of 1080i. None of my hardware displays the formats of signals, so it's a guessing game sometimes. Believe a NYC PBS station was beaming out 5 channels from a low-power Brooklyn site a few years back; couldn't detect the signal just across the East River due to shielding buildings. Believe for their very-high-quality 1080i programs, though, they switched most or all of the subchannels down so they'd have up to ~19 Mbps available for PBS's best. -- John


----------



## Lord British

Hi all - Just wondering if TWC here in Manhattan transmits any QAM unscrambled DT or HD?


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Remus_
> *I live in Rockland County and just upgraded to HDTV via DirecTV. Has anyone tried the Channel Master 3010 StealthTenna for OTA HD local channels? Any pointers on its set-up?*



I tried that antenna across the river in northern Westchester and got only spotty digital reception. Suggest you try the Channel Master 4228 with the CM 7775 amp. I've been using that for a couple of months going through my DirecTV HD tuner and I get WCBS-DT, WNYW (Fox)-DT, WABC-DT, and now, WNJN-DT, as well as several analog UHF stations. The only one I can't pull in is WNBC-DT which is at very low power right now.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

The State of the Union in WS? ch 4 WABC-DT looks fantastic!!! It looks HD on some shots. We have come a long way


fmonkey-


----------



## Blue Rain

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=3


----------



## Anthony in NYC

Is anyone getting weird flickering on WABC-DT. The signal strength is at 94% but I am getting this weird flickering every few seconds.... It's really annoying. All the other NYC DT channels are fine


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *Is anyone getting weird flickering on WABC-DT. The signal strength is at 94% but I am getting this weird flickering every few seconds.... It's really annoying. All the other NYC DT channels are fine*



Yes......I am. I'm OTA as well.......Hughes E86. I believe I read about something similar happening last night on ABC-DT during "Meet the Parents" (was over on the programming forum).


----------



## Infominister

Yeah, I flipped over to ABC every so often from CBS and saw it each time. The CBS broadcast was flicker free and looked superb.


----------



## sting0r

It is in HD!! That's why it looked almost hd!! BTW, I checked out all the networks and NBC actually looked the best to me...



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *The State of the Union in WS? ch 4 WABC-DT looks fantastic!!! It looks HD on some shots. We have come a long way
> 
> 
> fmonkey-*


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *Is anyone getting weird flickering on WABC-DT. The signal strength is at 94% but I am getting this weird flickering every few seconds.... It's really annoying. All the other NYC DT channels are fine*



Yup, I've seen this for the last couple of nights on WABC DT. Very annoying. I went back to my WTNH feed, much better.


----------



## trekkerj

It was the same feed, all from ABC in 720p (other networks had to convert to 1080i). Each year, one network is the "pool' network for the entire broadcast. This year it was ABC, so the cameras were 720p cameras.


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else getting a mangled audio feed from 4-1 (28) right now ???


EVERY one of my other channels is fine........this is so bad I can't even hear Jay talk/monologue.


channel 4 OTA and channel 4 via D* audio seems fine.











Haven't checked to see if the sound is fine when a commercial comes out yet.........


----------



## jaypb

Not sure if it came back that way from a commercial or switched right over to it, but went back in and noticed the sound was fine now.......but the picture was 4:3 SD.


Go figure!


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Lord British_
> *Hi all - Just wondering if TWC here in Manhattan transmits any QAM unscrambled DT or HD?*



yes they have a few things on there, dont recall what, but a coworker has his myHD card hooked to his cable feed and is pulling in some stuff


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *The State of the Union in WS? ch 4 WABC-DT looks fantastic!!! It looks HD on some shots. We have come a long way
> 
> 
> fmonkey-*



WCBS as well, DEFINITELY look like HD. You can see every hair out of place on Goergie's head! You just can't do that with SD!


----------



## RAVEN56706

I was getting flickering in ABCDT...... but i watched most of it on NBCDT.



Great to see my prez in HD. But what happened to his eyebrows... he barely has any....



Also...... Ted Kennedy...... looks like a monster...


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> Also...... Ted Kennedy...... looks like a monster...



LOL...I thought the same thing especially when he rolls his eyes.


Tony


----------



## stlblufan

I'm looking for some help receiving OTA DTV signals. I live on the southwest corner of Central Park in a ninth floor apartment that faces north and west. I've tried unsuccessfully to get a decent signal with the Samsung T351 and various antenna connections, but all I was ever able to get was ABC (intermittently--and why was it 4:3 even though the receiver claimed it was an HD signal?) and FOX (maybe twice for about ten seconds each time). I noticed that my signal strength was stronger by day, too--is this commong? I always thought signals traveled further at night...hmm.


Anyway, with my T351, I have tried both the Zenith Silver Sensor and the Radio Shack 15-1870. I have also tried the Silver Sensor with an amplifier (the Radio Shack 15-1109). I tried pointing both antennas in every conceivable direction. No luck. Am I simply screwed due to my apartment configuration? Help! TIA.


----------



## sting0r

Why don't you just get TWC? Don't they have all the locals in Manahattan anyway? Would probably be easier then dealing with all the multipath issues and building blocking you ...


----------



## stlblufan

sting0r---i've thought about TWC and may end up with it, but right now i have directv with tivo and love it so much i don't think i could give it up. problem there is that my directv dish is a building-wide dish that doesn't support hd. so do i pay for both directv and TWC? maybe...


----------



## sting0r

gotcha! does your building have an antenna hookup? If not ask them if they will let you put one on the roof, though getting the cable down may be a problem. In manhattan it's hit or miss getting a signal because of multipath. Best bet would be to get TWC with just basic cable package and a hd box. I think that's pretty cheap or just get basic cable and one of the new LG receivers as I think all the network channels are sent in the clear QAM, remember a thread somewhere with someone saying they can get a bunch of channels. Good luck...


----------



## sting0r

On a seperate topic, has anyone notice NBC has been transmitting a stronger signal or is it just me? My signal jumped from being under 50 to consistently getting in the 70's and a strong lock. I was even able to watch the SOTU last night and leno for the past couple of nights? I wonder if they did something or maybe the wind just blew my antenna over a bit


----------



## Infominister

Coincidentally, I spoke with a WNBC engineer last night and asked when or if they're going to start pumping a little more juice from the GE Building. The answer was, in a word, "not." So I imagine you're just benefiting from better atmospheric conditions. As for me in northern Westchester, whether I get a little blip of yellow or a somewhat larger blip, it's not nearly strong enough to get even a momentary picture.

The good news is that the combiner is being worked on as we speak and they hope to go live from the Empire State Building in mid to late spring.


----------



## sting0r

I kinda figured it was atmospheric conditions, but I was hopening it was they cranked up the juice or my antenna has moved. I don't remember the exact direction it was pointing but for some reason to me it look like the wind had moved it alot! I just hope its not temporary and will last until the combiner project launch. Any word on how that is progressing? Latest I heard was march..


----------



## Calabs

You kow what's funny?......All the time I had my antenna pointed toward Philly, I picked up WCAU 2-3 times tops. I now have my antenna pointed toward NYC, and wouln't you know it, the other night, I was picking up WCAU at 60%! Now that's what I call multipathical tropospherical affects!


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sting0r_
> *I just hope its not temporary and will last until the combiner project launch. Any word on how that is progressing? Latest I heard was march..*



Sounded like sometime in April.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sting0r_
> *I just hope its not temporary and will last until the combiner project launch. Any word on how that is progressing? Latest I heard was march..*



Sounded like sometime in April.


----------



## trekkerj

Is WPIX actually reducing power?







I haven't been able to get them for about a week. Usually I can put together a crude VHF system to lock in, but not recently. Does cold weather negatively affect signal propagation? Am I going to have to wait until the combiner is done to pick up WPIX-DT again.


----------



## abater

No, I can assure you WPIX's temporary channel 12 DT operation is at the same power level. However, atmospheric conditions do impact propagation to some degree, and since Morris Plains is probably about the fringe of where you can expect to receive the signal I wouldn't be surprised that your received level might vary somewhat given the recent "funky" weather.


FWIW, I am on the Eastern side of Morris County (about 22 miles due West of ESB) and the signal with rooftop UHF/VHF antenna is very stable. Today I am reading a peak of 94 out of 100 on one receiver's s-meter, almost exactly the same as CBS & FOX-DT. (Admittedly, that is a little unusual!)


Andy


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *You kow what's funny?......All the time I had my antenna pointed toward Philly, I picked up WCAU 2-3 times tops. I now have my antenna pointed toward NYC, and wouln't you know it, the other night, I was picking up WCAU at 60%! Now that's what I call multipathical tropospherical affects!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Did a scan last night after re-orienting my antennas for my Philly stations and low and behold I picked up WCAU-DT I guess they must have moved to the new tower?? I was only able to pickup the channel once about a year ago on a great tropo night.


I didn't have to chance to check this morning to see if this still there.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Did a scan last night after re-orienting my antennas for my Philly stations and low and behold I picked up WCAU-DT I guess they must have moved to the new tower?? I was only able to pickup the channel once about a year ago on a great tropo night.
> 
> 
> I didn?t have to chance to check this morning to see if this still there.*



Yes, please let us know if you're still getting WCAU. I'd move my antenna back toward Philly if WCAU was "reachable" from E.B. I can get WNBC very well from where I am, but WPIX is non-existent.


----------



## wward

Checked again last night was able to pick it up the signal strenth was slightly lower but got a lock.


----------



## stlblufan

Okay so I took the plunge and got TWC today. HD channels look amazing. One question, though: why do some HD channels show up with sidebars, as if I had a 4:3 tv? I have the aspect ratio set correctly. I suppose the answer is that they are broadcasting it as a 4:3 picture, but why? I thought one of the big advantages of HD was the 16:9 picture. As an aside, will the sidebars cause phosphor burn-in on my new Panna plasma?


Also, and I know this is off-topic but this is a NY area thread, can anyone recommend a technician to calibrate my plasma? I hear it makes quite a difference and I really don't want to muck with the advanced settings myself.



TIA.


----------



## KenA

Hey stlblufan. First, this is an OTA (over-the-air) thread. You may want to check out the TWC thread for more information about TIme Warner Cable. Second, not every program on a HD channel is broadcast in High Def. Check a listing service like TitanTV.com to see which programs are in HD. You can also take a look at the HDTV Programming board.


----------



## jcthomas

stlblufan:


Excessive 4:3 viewing may lead to burn in. However, a mix of viewing should be OK. Check out the Plasma forum here for ISF recommendations. A well calibrated Plasma will help reduce the possibility of burn in.


Regards:


----------



## KenA

All you really need is AV Essentials DVD (do a search) to do a basic calibration. You don't need to get into the advanced settings. Just keep your contrast down and you won't experience burn in for a long time.


----------



## stlblufan

KenA: you are right, wrong forum altogether. Apologies.


Thanks for the advice.


----------



## samone

I live in Westchester about 30 miles from the ESB. I'm using an indoor silver sensor with a sammy ts-160 for ota digital. It brought in CBS fine and fox with limited success and frequent drop offs. I fiddled with the antenna's angle and position for hours. I also read every relevant posting on this forum. Anyhow, I took the advice offered here and invested in good pre-amp with FM trap. Bottom line: tremendous improvement in signal strength and stability. Seven stations with 90% or better. Thanks to all.


----------



## SnellKrell

Samone -


Which brand and model?


Thanks,


Gary


----------



## samone

I got a Winegard ap-8275 because it was in stock at the time. Other people apparently have had luck with channel master brand.


----------



## Calabs




> _Originally posted by samone_
> *I got a Winegard ap-8275 because it was in stock at the time. Other people apparently have had luck with channel master brand.* [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> I think any good brand name will work. I've got a Winegard, pulling all majors from NTC (including NBC) with no problem.


----------



## cybertec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stlblufan_
> *Okay so I took the plunge and got TWC today. HD channels look amazing. One question, though: why do some HD channels show up with sidebars, as if I had a 4:3 tv? I have the aspect ratio set correctly. I suppose the answer is that they are broadcasting it as a 4:3 picture, but why? I thought one of the big advantages of HD was the 16:9 picture. As an aside, will the sidebars cause phosphor burn-in on my new Panna plasma?
> 
> 
> Also, and I know this is off-topic but this is a NY area thread, can anyone recommend a technician to calibrate my plasma? I hear it makes quite a difference and I really don't want to muck with the advanced settings myself.
> 
> 
> 
> TIA.*



when you get the sidebars means that the signal is up converted to resemble a HD picture as close as possible, the show or program itself is not High Def, some of the sitcoms at night on your local channels are in HD, like CSI, who loves Raymond or whatever it's called, same goes for HBO, SHO,cbs,abc,nbc, fox,CBS has the best HD contend of the local channels, DiscoveryHD is always High Def, as is PBS channel13HD, HBO and SHO have original High Def shows like the Sopranos, Angels in America, Six Feet under, the Larry David show Curb your Enthusiasm, I love that show, most of the movies are up converted to HD, more original HD shows and contend will become the norm a few years from now, but as of today most of it is up converted, any more questions please ask.


----------



## jaypb

I just swapped out a CM pre-amp on my rooftop set up for a Winegard....and I had all the NYC digitals earlier this AM. Just went to view 4-1 and I have a 93 signal strength on my Hughes E86....but no audio/video.


Anyone else?? All my other NYC digitals are functional.


Just want to make sure it's the source and not my setup.


I haven't gotten around to going downstairs to check my other STB/antenna setup.


Color me frozen....and lazy....


----------



## TAKKL

jaypb,

Same here in Brooklyn. Signal strength at 80%, but no picture. Looks like someone flipped off the switch.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

same in brooklyn 11203 lock but no picture no sound.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TAKKL_
> *jaypb,
> 
> Same here in Brooklyn. Signal strength at 80%, but no picture. Looks like someone flipped off the switch.*



Just came up from the basement and same thing down there.


Just wanted confirmation since I found it odd that I had just gone up on the roof to swap out the pre-amps and then when I checked the digitals 2 hours later WNBC-DT (which is the most finicky station for me) was gone....but had a SS of almost 100


----------



## Rudmeister

Hi Guys, I could use a little help. I just moved to Port Reading, which I am told is actually part of woodbridge, and I left my rooftop antenna at the old house. Could I get by here with a small(2-3 ft) antenna in my 3rd floor crawlspace? Would one of those powered round omnidirectional ones work?


----------



## TAKKL

WNBC-DT is up!!! Just in time for the Golden Globe Awards.


----------



## Ken Ross

Not in HD.


----------



## baimo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rudmeister_
> *Hi Guys, I could use a little help. I just moved to Port Reading, which I am told is actually part of woodbridge, and I left my rooftop antenna at the old house. Could I get by here with a small(2-3 ft) antenna in my 3rd floor crawlspace? Would one of those powered round omnidirectional ones work?*



I would not go with the omnidirectional. But you should do fine with a cm 4224 0r 4228. You might need an amp. You never know until you try. But I have a similar setup in metuchen and it works like a charm.


----------



## trekkerj

Is anyone getting WNBC-DT? I have no signal. All the other major networks are coming in, however, some other things I normally pull in are very weak. Maybe it's atmospheric. Can someone confirm? Thanks.


----------



## TAKKL

NBC-DT coming in fine in Brooklyn.


----------



## trekkerj

Never mind, it's my POS amplifier. Bought a simple amp on ebay for $5.00. I already had the channelmaster 7775, but it filtered out VHF and I wanted to try WPIX. This amp does both, but it's a a cheap VCR-type amp. I bought a new 50 ft run since I needed a bit of slack, and now the amp doesn't work. Tried the 7775, and it worked fine. Time to try the 7777.


----------



## glen1271

I recently ordered an LG LST-3510A, to be delivered on the 29th. Is there anyone here getting good reception in Oakland NJ or nearby, and which antenna or equipment are you using?


Thanks for any help or suggestions.


----------



## lirong

Im in White Plains, NY trying to receive OTA stations - primarily out of NYC. I was hoping to use an indoor antenna like the Zenith Silver Sensor.


Does anyone have any experience near my location? Thoughts or recommendations?


Thanks.


----------



## RAVEN56706

Is the PBS HD coming in with better reception?


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by lirong_
> *Im in White Plains, NY trying to receive OTA stations - primarily out of NYC. I was hoping to use an indoor antenna like the Zenith Silver Sensor.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any experience near my location? Thoughts or recommendations?
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



You may be able to pick up WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT and even WABC-DT. I got sporadic reception with the Silver Sensor in Ossining, which is a good 15 miles north of White Plains. I don't know if you're a satellite customer, but the Winegard Sensar which attaches to your dish mount is excellent. I've got one to sell if you're interested.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RAVEN56706_
> *Is the PBS HD coming in with better reception?*



Yes, I heard they increased power on 50-1,5 out of Montclair, NJ.


----------



## SteinyD

Comes in fine most of the time in Madison, NJ





> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Is anyone getting WNBC-DT? I have no signal. All the other major networks are coming in, however, some other things I normally pull in are very weak. Maybe it's atmospheric. Can someone confirm? Thanks.*


----------



## trekkerj

I know, I mentioned it was my preamp. Never mind.


(WPIX, however, is another matter. Haven't been able to get it since December.)


----------



## SteveWinNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by glen1271_
> *I recently ordered an LG LST-3510A, to be delivered on the 29th. Is there anyone here getting good reception in Oakland NJ or nearby, and which antenna or equipment are you using?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help or suggestions.*



Glen,


I'm in Mahwah, near Darlington Ave and Ridge Road. I get a lock on CBS and FOX with a small Silver Sensor (indoor - set top) antenna. With a pre-amp, I can lock on NBC and PBS. I have a Sony HD-200 (Directv). I'm sure you will do even better with your LG from Oakland. Try antennaweb.org if you haven't already to get an idea of what you can receive. Post back with any questions once you get your antenna.


----------



## glen1271

Hi,


Thanks for your help so far. I picked up a silver sensor at Best Buy last night, so far I'm not getting a signal. After checking antennaweb I think I'm going to have to use an outdoor antenna. I have an outdoor antenna left by the previous owner, but I need to figure out how to get it hooked up to my receiver. Any ideas on what I might need?


Thanks again.


Glen


----------



## SteveWinNJ

Before having to mess with the old antenna, try this. With the Silver Sensor, it is very directional. So you should put the signal meter on the tv screen, (if there is one) while you slowly turn the antenna. Try to get it up on a shelf if possible. A little movement even within the same room will effect your signal. If you are hesitant about crawling around in all this ice and snow, go to Radio Shack and pick up a pre-amp first. Might as well get a UHF/VHF combo so you can get WPIX on VHF.(edit: with an antenna other than the UHF only SS). Try the pre-amp and Silver Sensor together. If the pre-amp doesn't work with the SS, then you will need the outdoor type of antenna. Try the old one, prior to returning the pre-amp. That way if the outdoor one receives all the channels without dropouts without the pre-amp you can still return it to Radio Shack. RS will also have everything you need (RG6 cable, etc) to hook it up to your STB. There are a lot of variables with an old antenna that is best left to those better informed than I. You may find the pre-amp and SS is all you need though! I am 23.4 miles to the ESB and it rocks for me!


----------



## glen1271

Thanks for the info, I'll pick up a Pre Amp on the way home. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again for your help.


----------



## Remus

Quick post on my OTA hook-up. I live in Rockland County, about four miles West and 1/2 mile North of the Tappan Zee Bridge. I installed a ChannelMaster Stealthtenna 3010 with the pre-amp a few days back (my escapades on the icy roof are for another day!). It's on the peak of the roof on a five foot mast, so about 40 feet high. I live on a bit of a hill. The OTA HD reception has been SUPERB. All local channels coming in perfectly with no artifacts. Even picking up analog as far away as Hartford (not that I want it). So at least for my area and set-up this inexpensive, easy to install antennae has worked perfectly so far.


----------



## oprig

I wanted to let everyone know about my reception.


I have a Silver Sensor along with an LG LST3100A. I live on W69th St btwn CPW & Columbus on the south side of the street.


I can receive CBS, NBC, FOX, UPN, ABC & NJN without moving the antenna. If I move the antenna into a different position I can also receive WB.


Time to cancel TWCNYC ?


----------



## John Mason

Nice OTA lineup for NYC, oprig; you're fortunate. I'm near the East River, nearly parallel to all the stations, but can only pick up CBS reliably after tinkering with a Silver Sensor placement.


You might try manual tuning of WNET-DT (PBS), at 61 UHF (?). It's a weak signal beamed from about 39th near the Hudson toward Newark and not many pick it up. You might pick up other N.J. stations, as an antennaweb.org entry would show. If you can get it, it would be interesting to learn how WNET's OTA HD, delivered with a subchannel, compares with TWC's 713 HD-quality-wise. TWC appears to have a fiber link to WNET-DT that should bypass the OTA multicasting bandwidth-limitation problems. -- John


----------



## oprig

According to antennaweb.org, WNET-DT is broadcasting on frequency 61 -- watching the signal meter on my tuner I never receive ANY signal.


The NJN channels (50-1/2/3/4/5 at various times of the day) that I receive are multi-casted. These channels are not displayed as available when I type my address into antennaweb.org.


50-5 NJN-DT is on air from 8pm to midnight -- during this time 50-2 & 50-3 are not broadcast. The picture looks good although I have only seen one programme -- American Family.


The other channels that antennaweb.org indicates I should receive (WXTV-DT, WRNN-DT, WFUT-DT) get varying levels of signal but nothing high enough to lock on and produce a picture.


Perhaps a pre-amp would help?


----------



## John Mason

Good with the WNET-DT channel correction, I'll fix my post. I've never gotten the faintest signal peep at my location.


Recall some extended discussions here about WNJN image quality because it's multicasting so heavily. Time Warner added it at 750 several months back, but doesn't list it among its HD channels, only as a digital channel (OTA ATSC). Haven't seen any true 1080i from TWC's 750.


Believe there's a preamp version of the SS, although it's hard to locate, and I've spotted threads or posts about adding a preamp to SSs. -- John


----------



## Infominister

If anyone in the New York Metro area needs the Winegard GS2000a antenna and preamp, including hardware for attaching it to a satellite dish, please send me a PM. I used it when I lived in Ossining and got 90%+ signal strength on WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT, etc. (I moved before WABC-DT went back on the air, but I have no doubt it would've picked up that, too.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *Good with the WNET-DT channel correction, I'll fix my post. I've never gotten the faintest signal peep at my location.
> 
> 
> Recall some extended discussions here about WNJN image quality because it's multicasting so heavily. Time Warner added it at 750 several months back, but doesn't list it among its HD channels, only as a digital channel (OTA ATSC). Haven't seen any true 1080i from TWC's 750.
> 
> 
> Believe there's a preamp version of the SS, although it's hard to locate, and I've spotted threads or posts about adding a preamp to SSs. -- John*



It is my understading that the amplified version of the Silver Sensor is not being sold in the states. It can be special orderd personally I would rather add my own pre-amp.


----------



## oprig

What pre-amp would be recommended for a SS antenna ?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oprig_
> *What pre-amp would be recommended for a SS antenna ?*



Any decent low noise pre-amp will do, look for something with a 20db gain and FM trap.


----------



## JGDiablo

Update...


As you may recall, I am using a RS 15-2160 in the attic to pull in NYC channels, except NBC-DT. I recently purchased the Winegard AP-4800 pre-amp as well. With my desire to pull in NBC, I decided to go after Philly stations. I purchased another RS 15-2160, went in the attic also, got a Radio Shack splitter/combiner to combine both antennas. Added the AP-4800 to the Philly feed to give it extra boost. At the TV, I am using a 10dB Recoton video amplifier to give it another final boost. Here are my results:


CBS DT (NYC and Philly)

NBC DT (Philly only)

ABC DT (NYC only, Philly is choppy)

FOX DT (Philly only, perhaps NYC issue today?)

UPN DT (Philly only, perhaps NYC issue today?)

WB DT (Philly only)

PBS DT (Trenton only, Newark used to work)


In the end, I'm getting all the channels. I'm just surprised that NYC FOX, UPN and Newark PBS which used to work, no longer do. My guess is that splitter/combiner is putting in too much losses?


I'm happy, but for completeness sake, if someone has an idea on how to further amplify my NYC antenna - can I use another AP-4800? If so, how do I combine using 1 run to the tv?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JGDiablo_
> *Update...
> 
> 
> As you may recall, I am using a RS 15-2160 in the attic to pull in NYC channels, except NBC-DT. I recently purchased the Winegard AP-4800 pre-amp as well. With my desire to pull in NBC, I decided to go after Philly stations. I purchased another RS 15-2160, went in the attic also, got a Radio Shack splitter/combiner to combine both antennas. Added the AP-4800 to the Philly feed to give it extra boost. At the TV, I am using a 10dB Recoton video amplifier to give it another final boost. Here are my results:
> 
> 
> CBS DT (NYC and Philly)
> 
> NBC DT (Philly only)
> 
> ABC DT (NYC only, Philly is choppy)
> 
> FOX DT (Philly only, perhaps NYC issue today?)
> 
> UPN DT (Philly only, perhaps NYC issue today?)
> 
> WB DT (Philly only)
> 
> PBS DT (Trenton only, Newark used to work)
> 
> 
> In the end, I'm getting all the channels. I'm just surprised that NYC FOX, UPN and Newark PBS which used to work, no longer do. My guess is that splitter/combiner is putting in too much losses?
> 
> 
> I'm happy, but for completeness sake, if someone has an idea on how to further amplify my NYC antenna - can I use another AP-4800? If so, how do I combine using 1 run to the tv?*



It is very important to make sure that the coax running from the antennas to the combiner is low loss and of equal lengths. And that the length of coax coming from the combiner is low loss and as short as possible.


----------



## mouserider




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JGDiablo_
> *Update...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, I'm getting all the channels. I'm just surprised that NYC FOX, UPN and Newark PBS which used to work, no longer do. My guess is that splitter/combiner is putting in too much losses?
> 
> 
> I'm happy, but for completeness sake, if someone has an idea on how to further amplify my NYC antenna - can I use another AP-4800? If so, how do I combine using 1 run to the tv?*



You might want to try to get a combiner that gates at specific frequencies so you can send the specific channels from the specific antenna downstream. If you are combining full spectrum from both antennas into one downstream line, you might be introducing noise or weak signal interference (i.e. shadows, echos) from the other antenna that's pointed at Philly to the good signal that's pointed at Newark, resulting in a "sum" bad signal.


----------



## Scott G

Here is a strange one maybe someone can help me with. I have a CM 4228 with a Winegard AP4800 preamp. I receive normally channels 2, 4, 5 and 7. Naturally, channel 4 is lower strength than the others. The past few days I notice channel 4 drops out completely around 9:00am and reappears at its full strength at about 5:00pm. The other channels are not affected at all. It almost seems like when the sun comes up channel 4 goes, and when the sun sets channel 4 reappears and the other channels are not affected at all.


Does anyone have any idea what this could be ? Could it be atmospheric ? Could the sun be causing interference ? I am really baffled why channel 4 seems to be intefered with during these hours, but the other channels are okay. Any ideas ?


Thanks for the help.


Scott


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Here is a strange one maybe someone can help me with. I have a CM 4228 with a Winegard AP4800 preamp. I receive normally channels 2, 4, 5 and 7. Naturally, channel 4 is lower strength than the others. The past few days I notice channel 4 drops out completely around 9:00am and reappears at its full strength at about 5:00pm. The other channels are not affected at all. It almost seems like when the sun comes up channel 4 goes, and when the sun sets channel 4 reappears and the other channels are not affected at all.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any idea what this could be ? Could it be atmospheric ? Could the sun be causing interference ? I am really baffled why channel 4 seems to be intefered with during these hours, but the other channels are okay. Any ideas ?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> 
> Scott*



Could be atmospheric but may also be work going on at the transmitter site maybe power is being reduced during the day for work?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Could be atmospheric but may also be work going on at the transmitter site maybe power is being reduced during the day for work?*



I don't think so because it is happening on Saturday and Sunday, too. It is so strange. The other stations stay at full power and WNBC-DT seems to go down with the sun and come up when the sun goes down.


Scott


----------



## trekkerj

It's fine for me 24/7. Not a drop in signal strength at all.


----------



## Remus

Fine for me too all day every day.


----------



## pop

Can anyone recommend OTA installer on Staten Island who is familiar with HDTV.

Thanks


----------



## Megahurts




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Could be atmospheric but may also be work going on at the transmitter site maybe power is being reduced during the day for work?*



Probably atmospheric since they only run 1KW transmitter RF output. Not enough to worry about when working around. Antenna gain boosts it up to 10K ERP. Could also be stupid building A/C system that freezes chiller coils in winter and stops cooling in room. Room temps may well be in excess of 120 degrees. Most solid state equipment doesnt like that. Still doesnt explain constant 9 to 5 signal degradation. Must be the sun.

MHz


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Hello all, I just did a re-scan on my integrated mits. I now get 50.1-.4. I never got these before. I am receiving WCBS-DT,WNBC-DT,FOX,UPN analog, WABC-DT & sub + WPIX-DT WB & all it's subs. Is 50.1 PBS? do they have HD prg Like WNET? I don't understand why I would get this suddenly & not PBS from nyc. I wanted to drop CV when I receive *all* the locals in DT but now CV saved there @$$e$ concerning me when they added INHD. peace


fmonkey-


----------



## oprig

50-5 is broadcast from 8pm to midnight and is PBS HD (during this time 50-2 & 50-3 are not broadcast)


----------



## wward

Anyone notice that WABC-DT 7-2 is broadcasting different programming than 7-1.


Looks like Gladiator on 7-1 and Sunday morning public affairs programs on 7-2.


----------



## trekkerj

Yeah, I noticed that too. During the 8:00 hour, they were showing ABC World News tonight.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Anyone notice that WABC-DT 7-2 is broadcasting different programming than 7-1.
> 
> 
> Looks like Gladiator on 7-1 and Sunday morning public affairs programs on 7-2.*



I noticed something similar last week while watching 6-1/2 out of Philly. 6-1 had "The Bachelorette" while 6-2 had on some sort of a national newscast.


There was a time stamp at the bottom right that seemed to be a West Coast time (i.e. it was 9:30 pm but the time stamp said 6:30 or so......)


----------



## JGDiablo

My last post made mention that I had some luck combining two antenna's to one run to the tv set. I wasn't real happy with that setup anyway, so I think I finally have a solution I can live with. I went to Radio Shack and picked up a coax a/b switch. I ran both antenna leads to the switch, one output to the 28db pre-amp, etc. I took the switch and poked it out of the attic cutout in the closet. In position A i get NYC, in position B, I get Philly. It's not a perfect scenario, since it requires a manual intervention, but, until NBC-DT out of NY comes to full power, if I want to watch NBC out of Philly (WCAU-DT), I just run upstairs, flick the switch and enjoy NBC.


Finally!!!! A solution I can live with.


----------



## aleet2600

I just moved to Jersey City near Holland Tunnel. According to 2150.com, I am:

1.3 miles from NBC, ABC, PAX, FOX(38), WPIX

3.3 miles from FOX (44), CBS, etc.


I have:

Silver Sensor without preamp

RS Double Bowtie (not hookup)

MyHD DTC100 (HD OTA computer card)

Pio 503cmx

8th floor of a 41 floors apartment building


But all I can get is about 60-80% strength from FOX(44). I understand Silver Sensor is a directional antenna so I had been pointing and moving it around.


I am not sure, but I might have serious multipath issue. I am getting FOX(44) at ~280deg while antennaweb.org says it is at 60deg. When I watch for ghosting from analog channels, I get about 3 ghosting shadows to the right and they are not too bad. This made me wonder if multipath is really the issue. I can't be getting the direction wrong because antennaweb.org points toward NYC while my current setup is pointing away from NYC. It means I am getting the signal from Phily? But I am less than 3.3 miles from NYC and I am not getting *ANY* signals?


I used to live 15 miles from the towers in Boston and I get all the channels without preamp. Now I am only 3.3 miles away, will a CM7777 help?


Can anyone explain why I am so close to the towers but not getting *ANY* signals? Oh, I am facing south, so pointing to the NYC towers means I point inside my apartment. Is that the problem?


Thanks.


----------



## JGDiablo

My guess is that pointing it into your apartment is causing WAY too much signal loss. I have an attic installation in Central NJ and the attic alone causes significant losses. You're in an apartment pointing toward steel and concrete.


----------



## trekkerj

Get it close as possible to window facing the transmitter. Preamp would make things worse, most likely. Try aiming it up.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aleet2600_
> *I just moved to Jersey City near Holland Tunnel. According to 2150.com, I am:
> 
> 1.3 miles from NBC, ABC, PAX, FOX(38), WPIX
> 
> 3.3 miles from FOX (44), CBS, etc.
> 
> 
> I have:
> 
> Silver Sensor without preamp
> 
> RS Double Bowtie (not hookup)
> 
> MyHD DTC100 (HD OTA computer card)
> 
> Pio 503cmx
> 
> 8th floor of a 41 floors apartment building
> 
> 
> But all I can get is about 60-80% strength from FOX(44). I understand Silver Sensor is a directional antenna so I had been pointing and moving it around.
> 
> 
> I am not sure, but I might have serious multipath issue. I am getting FOX(44) at ~280deg while antennaweb.org says it is at 60deg. When I watch for ghosting from analog channels, I get about 3 ghosting shadows to the right and they are not too bad. This made me wonder if multipath is really the issue. I can't be getting the direction wrong because antennaweb.org points toward NYC while my current setup is pointing away from NYC. It means I am getting the signal from Phily? But I am less than 3.3 miles from NYC and I am not getting *ANY* signals?
> 
> 
> I used to live 15 miles from the towers in Boston and I get all the channels without preamp. Now I am only 3.3 miles away, will a CM7777 help?
> 
> 
> Can anyone explain why I am so close to the towers but not getting *ANY* signals? Oh, I am facing south, so pointing to the NYC towers means I point inside my apartment. Is that the problem?
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



The FOX signal seems to be on of the weaker signals from ESB I generally get between 57 and 62 which is more than enough for my receiver to work with.


Try tilting the antenna up an placing it with the barral connector down basiclly at 90 degrees, and place it in your window (if possible).


----------



## SteveWinNJ

Would a FM trap help in this situation? Those better informed...please chime in!


----------



## aleet2600

I was going to buy a Channel Master 7777, but it is back order as usual. So I just went out to buy a RS amp. Will see how it goes. But it really troubles me that I am so close to the stations and not getting anything.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aleet2600_
> *I was going to buy a Channel Master 7777, but it is back order as usual. So I just went out to buy a RS amp. Will see how it goes. But it really troubles me that I am so close to the stations and not getting anything.*



Personally, I don't thing a preamp will help your situation. You are already close to the transmitter. If there is something blocking your line of sight, or if multipathing is what's getting you a signal, then a preamp will do no good. From my experience, a preamp will work if you are far away away with a clear line of sight to the transmitter, OR if you have a significant run of cable from the antenna to the TV (over 100 feet). It sounds more like the position of the antenna is more the culprit.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *Would a FM trap help in this situation? Those better informed...please chime in!*



Not sure where the question arose from, but the FM frequency falls between 88 and 108 MHz. This is between VHF channels 6 and 7. So if you don't have problems with these channels, a trap may not do anything for you.


----------



## SteveWinNJ

Calabs, The Fm trap suggestion came from others posting that an FM trap will help reduce severe multipath, which for 3 miles from the transmitters, I would think to be an issue. Are you're saying that is false? I have a friend who is a "soon to be HDTV watcher" that may have the same problem. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Remus

I notice many of you quoting a signal strength meter reading. What are you using to measure the signal strength? I route my OTA HD through my DirecTv receiver, the Hughes HTL-HD, then to my TV. So what do you use and where in the signal path do you put it?


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Remus_
> *I notice many of you quoting a signal strength meter reading. What are you using to measure the signal strength? I route my OTA HD through my DirecTv receiver, the Hughes HTL-HD, then to my TV. So what do you use and where in the signal path do you put it?*



Unfortunately, the HTL-HD does NOT have a signal strength meter.







The SS meter is typcially built into the receiver. I've heard there may some software upgrades to this receiver, but I'm not sure if SS will be part of the upgrade (one, I believe, is Caller ID).


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *Calabs, The Fm trap suggestion came from others posting that an FM trap will help reduce severe multipath, which for 3 miles from the transmitters, I would think to be an issue. Are you're saying that is false? I have a friend who is a "soon to be HDTV watcher" that may have the same problem. Thanks in advance!*



I'm not sure what the reasoning is for using an FM trap for that application. Perhaps someone could explain the technical reason for installing an FM trap to reduce multipathing?


----------



## imajazz

where can i find a list of all the hd channels broadcasted ota in nyc metro area? i just had digital io hd box installed through cablevision. but i only have cbs and fox (not hd really) as local hd channels.


thinking of getting a hd box and an ota antenna.


would i be able to use the scientific atlantic 4200hd box with an ota antenna and get local hd channels?


thanks.


----------



## Remus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by imajazz_
> *where can i find a list of all the hd channels broadcasted ota in nyc metro area? i just had digital io hd box installed through cablevision. but i only have cbs and fox (not hd really) as local hd channels.
> 
> 
> thinking of getting a hd box and an ota antenna.
> 
> 
> would i be able to use the scientific atlantic 4200hd box with an ota antenna and get local hd channels?
> 
> 
> thanks.*



Go to antennaweb.org and type in your zip code to find the HD OTA channels.


Not sure about your second question.


----------



## Remus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Unfortunately, the HTL-HD does NOT have a signal strength meter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SS meter is typcially built into the receiver. I've heard there may some software upgrades to this receiver, but I'm not sure if SS will be part of the upgrade (one, I believe, is Caller ID).*



Thanks Calabs. I wondered what Caller ID was when looking at feature listings of different receivers. Never concluded it as a signal strength meter.


Anyone know of an external signal meter I can hook into the signal path?


----------



## Scott G

WABC-DT is apparently off the air since about 6:45pm. I am getting all other locals strong and I am getting zero on the signal meter for WABC-DT.


Scott


----------



## dm145

Still down.


----------



## Scott G

How come Whoopi is not in HD on WNBC-DT ?


Scott


----------



## Infominister

I hope it's back up by 10:00 for Line of Fire.


----------



## Mr. Soze




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *WABC-DT is apparently off the air since about 6:45pm. I am getting all other locals strong and I am getting zero on the signal meter for WABC-DT.
> 
> 
> Scott*



Back now (8:30 pm)


----------



## dcarl




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oprig_
> *50-5 is broadcast from 8pm to midnight and is PBS HD (during this time 50-2 & 50-3 are not broadcast)*



Has anyone here noticed that PBS picture is noticably soft? (out of Montclair anyway) They're broadcasting at a lower bitrate- My Hipix reports 14.6 mbps. Should be closer to 19.


I'm really disappointed, I've been a huge donor.....must be because of darned multicasting, if so, hope it's not permanent.










-David


----------



## Scott G

How come none of the NBC shows are in HD tonight on WNBC-DT ? They are supposed to be in HD, yet all of them are in 4:3.


Scott


----------



## dcarpa




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by imajazz_
> *where can i find a list of all the hd channels broadcasted ota in nyc metro area? i just had digital io hd box installed through cablevision. but i only have cbs and fox (not hd really) as local hd channels.
> 
> 
> thinking of getting a hd box and an ota antenna.
> 
> 
> would i be able to use the scientific atlantic 4200hd box with an ota antenna and get local hd channels?
> 
> 
> thanks.*



The SA box doesnt have the ability to accept OTA - really bad move on Cablevision and TWC not to pressure SA to include this as there big competitors boxes have this (D* and E*).


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Remus_
> *Thanks Calabs. I wondered what Caller ID was when looking at feature listings of different receivers. Never concluded it as a signal strength meter.
> 
> 
> Anyone know of an external signal meter I can hook into the signal path?*



I think you misunderstood what I said. Caller ID and signal strength are two separate features. Caller ID is essentially.........well............Caller ID. If the receiver is hooked up to a phone line, and you subsribe to caller ID with your phone co., when a phone call comes in while your watching TV, the caller ID info will appear on the screen. I was just saying that these two features (caller ID and SS) are features that are not available on the new Hughes. However, I believe that a new software upgrade may be coming that may upgrade the receiver to have Caller ID.


Is that clear?


----------



## imajazz

thanks. so i guess if i want to view ota hd...i'll have to get a different hd box. hmm...more money to spend.


do most of you guys have the same hd boxes? is there a recommended list of hd boxes? i don't need the best. just something that works consistently in a fair price range.


----------



## Remus

Crystal clear Calabs - thanx again.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Hey people, I need some help or advice. Every time we have adverse weather cond. I loose a few ch. sometimes it is WNBC-DT & WABC-DT. Other times it can be just the WB or FOX. After the storm has passed the ch. sometimes don't come back, I have to re-scan & even that doesn't work. A few hours or sometimes a few days the ch. eventually come back. Does any one have a mits w/integrated tuner that has this prob.? Could it be the networks & not my tv. Thanks for any help you can provide. peace


fmonkey-


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dcarl_
> *Has anyone here noticed that PBS picture is noticably soft? (out of Montclair anyway) They're broadcasting at a lower bitrate- My Hipix reports 14.6 mbps. Should be closer to 19.
> 
> 
> I'm really disappointed, I've been a huge donor.....must be because of darned multicasting, if so, hope it's not permanent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -David*



A lot of their programming is not HD. They list it on theie site as LetterBoxed. I have noticed that when they do show HD it is a little soft compared to the "Loop" we use to get.


----------



## Scott G

WABC-DT has been off the air all day today. I hope this is not the start of some major problems.


Scott


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I don't have the WB either. PBS was on yesterday and now it is out too.


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *WABC-DT has been off the air all day today. I hope this is not the start of some major problems.
> 
> 
> Scott*


----------



## Scott G

WABC-DT is now back on the air.


Has anyone noticed WNBC-DT has now gone to the 4:3 screen on SD shows. I kind of liked the 14:9 screen they used before.


Scott


----------



## RAVEN56706

Whats wrong with NBC??? I was watching ER tonight and its in 4:3.... I had it in HD format.... whats up with that?


----------



## trekkerj

It was SD because of the last second editing of the show.


----------



## mouserider

They had to blur the scene when they were trying to resuscitate the 80-year old mother of the Haitian woman with whooping cough.


I'm suspecting that they didn't have HD equipment to do the same action on the HD tape.


The networks are currently suffering from post breast exposure syndrome.


----------



## cpto

Fmonkey - I can't speak for NYC but in NJ CBS goes out in bad weather before CBS in Philly (and I'm only 23 air miles from NYC).


I haven't lost CBS for days but it's not unusual for a little precip to knock it off the air.


Rick


----------



## trekkerj

That's odd. I'm a little further from you and using an indoor antenna, and have NEVER lost WCBS-DT.


----------



## Scott G

What in the world is going on WABC-DT this morning ? I am showing a signal strength of 95 % on the signal meter yet my receive and integrated TV both show no signal screens and no picture. There seems to be a signal, but yet the TV and decoder both do not see a signal. How weird is that. How is everyone's WABC-DT working this morning ?


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## Infominister

I had similar weird reception last night. Haven't checked yet this morning. They usually resolve these things by prime time.


----------



## Scott G

It is just a little weird when the signal meter shows a strong signal yet the TV and/or decoder says no signal.


Scott


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *Fmonkey - I can't speak for NYC but in NJ CBS goes out in bad weather before CBS in Philly (and I'm only 23 air miles from NYC).
> 
> 
> I haven't lost CBS for days but it's not unusual for a little precip to knock it off the air.
> 
> 
> Rick*



Never noticed weather related problems with WCBS-DT however the Fox signals drops off dramatically during heavy rain storms. Last night was one of those instances.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Thanks, cpto. I don't understand if it is me or the networks. A week ago I had 4 PBS-DT ch. They looked great. Now they are all gone. Does any one know if PBS was testing?


fmonkey-


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Scratch my prior post. It was the network I would gather b'cause I now have PBS-NJN,PBS-KIDS,PBS-YOU & PBS-DT. These are the ID's my mit's tuner display's. Right now it is great I get ALL DT locals except WOR which is b'casting anaYukkylog. I am receiving a great picture from WCBS-DT,WNBC-DT,WNYW-DT(FOX) & it's sub WOR, WABC-DT & The WB & all it's subs as I mentioned above. Now they have to work on being consistent. peace


fmonkey-


----------



## jackw

I live in the huntington area of long island about 40 miles east of nyc , can someone tell me if i can recieve ota hdtv from this distance? and if so what kind of antennae should i buy?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

You can search the posts there are posts of the best antenna's to use & most members have there location in there profile. Check your line of site, if there is little obstruction you should get reception. 40 miles is not that far & there are other members in your area getting NYC local DT ch. Try mounting as high as you can safely go. good luck


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jackw_
> *I live in the huntington area of long island about 40 miles east of nyc , can someone tell me if i can receive ota hdtv from this distance? and if so what kind of antennae should i buy?*


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else notice that there is an OLD western on 7-2 right now while the Lakers game is on 7-1/7???


I'm getting WABC_DT OTA....I only noticed it because I just hooked up a new HD STB today to my Triple LNB and then to my OTA antenna........I guess this is "The Mouse's" Multi-casting type idea eh?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Yea, I have noticed this for a week or so, the multi-casting any how. More choices bring in more viewers. Let's hope it does not deteriorate there HD prg when it is on.


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Anyone else notice that there is an OLD western on 7-2 right now while the Lakers game is on 7-1/7???
> 
> 
> I'm getting WABC_DT OTA....I only noticed it because I just hooked up a new HD STB today to my Triple LNB and then to my OTA antenna........I guess this is "The Mouse's" Multi-casting type idea eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## Paperboy2003

Now that we are almost to the middle of Feb, is there anyone who could possibly update us on the combiner? Are we still looking at around April first?


Thanks in advance for any new info!


Doug


----------



## feloniousmonkey

A perfect example. Right now hockey in HD on WABC-DT 7.01 Looks great here. Meanwhile WABC-DT 7.02 Has a talk show on upconverted SD. It seems okay multi-casting just two 2 ch IMO.


fmonkey-


----------



## trekkerj

Has WABC increased their signal strength yet? I remember there was talk of them doubling the kW. Reason I ask is, I am getting a strong signal right now, and i have NO antenna hooked up. Nothing. Just a 50 ft coaxial cable connected to nothing at all. I unhooked my antenna after the 1st period of the NHL all-star game, and to my suprise, I didn't lose the signal. I guess the long cable run is acting as a pseudo-antenna.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I have no idea if they increased there pwer. But they where sporatic here the last couple of days, maybe they where testing. But that is amazing you where still getting reception with just a wire. Can the average joe do that!










fmonkey



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Has WABC increased their signal strength yet? I remember there was talk of them doubling the kW. Reason I ask is, I am getting a strong signal right now, and i have NO antenna hooked up. Nothing. Just a 50 ft coaxial cable connected to nothing at all. I unhooked my antenna after the 1st period of the NHL all-star game, and to my suprise, I didn't lose the signal. I guess the long cable run is acting as a pseudo-antenna.*


----------



## Infominister

Has anyone noticed any weakening in WABC-DT's signal over the past couple of nights? I'm in northern Westchester and had been getting good, solid signal strength for most of the winter -- especially during those really cold spells. However, the past few nights I've been down in the "Bad" zone, causing frequent break-ups on Sunday and virtually no signal at all last night. What's going on? Is it atmospheric, or what?


----------



## trekkerj

Weakening?







Like I mentioned earlier, I've been getting a solid lock on ABC the past couple of days WITHOUT an antenna connected to my receiver. I'm dumbfounded. I wanted to know if they INCREASED power....


----------



## pabuwal

A couple of things -


ABC, at 720P, can get away with multicasting whereas CBS at 1080i can not. It seems they are devoting very little bandwidth to their second channel so there should be no loss in PQ.


Someone from the WB told me that March was out of the question for the combiner project. I am guessing this means early April is also out of the question.


----------



## Infominister

I recently heard from a well-placed engineering type that we're looking at June. I'd have thought they'd want to be live by the May sweeps, but I guess the job is just not getting done on time.


----------



## trekkerj

June? dammit, this should have been done already. I was hoping to be able to pull in WB without dropouts before the season ended. By June, everything's over anyway, what's the point?


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *June? dammit, this should have been done already. I was hoping to be able to pull in WB without dropouts before the season ended. By June, everything's over anyway, what's the point?*



Can you say Reruns!?!?!


----------



## trekkerj

Reruns and Mets games. Whoopee!!!


----------



## Dannygee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jackw_
> *I live in the huntington area of long island about 40 miles east of nyc , can someone tell me if i can recieve ota hdtv from this distance? and if so what kind of antennae should i buy?*



You should be able to definitely get CBS, FOX, ABC,PBS and possibly NBC

from the Huntington area. The Channel Master 4228 is widely used.

try http://www.antennaweb.org 

for more information.

-Dan


----------



## aweitzner

According to TitanTV, HD on WWOR-DT is coming on March 1st. Does anyone know if this is real or will it be delayed yet again?


Andy


----------



## trekkerj

Pay no attention to the dates on titantv.


----------



## Infominister

Yeah, I heard from a second network affiliate engineer yesterday that June is the most likely implementation of the combiner.


----------



## Scott G

That combiner project is the most delayed thing I have ever heard of. Every three or four months they push it back another three months. Why is is I suspect in June they will say it will happen in September for the falll season ? Then Septmember they will say by year end, etc. etc. etc. That thing is so delayed it is getting ridiculous. I am a little sick of hearing about the combiner and its constant delays.


Scott


----------



## trekkerj

I still say it's a race between the combiner completion and the Freedom Tower completion.


----------



## Infominister

As frustrating as the wait has been, it does seem like they are finally moving ahead on this project, and that a June target is achievable. Previously, when dates ranging from last August, to November, to March were being bandied about, the combiner construction hadn't even started. Now, the work really is underway.

Also, I think you've got to give a lot of credit to the engineering staffs at WABC, WNBC and WPIX for erecting temporary digital transmitters that have provided digital reception for a great many, if not all, OTA/HD viewers in metro NYC. I've spoken to these guys and they really are a very friendly, responsive and dedicated group of broadcast professionals.


----------



## rh2019

By any chance if you know the Digital signal for WABC-DT is also coming from ESB. According to the antennaweb.org the compass orientation for CBS, ABC, and WNYW-DT are in the same direction (from my location) but I cannot receive anything from ABC.


----------



## Infominister

WABC-DT is currently being broadcast from a transmitter tower on top of the Conde Nast building. When the combiner's completed, it will serve as a back-up for WABC. It's only about 10 blocks from the ESB and just a bit west, so whatever point-of-reference antennaweb is using, you should be able to get reception by aiming in the same cirection as WCBS-DT and WNYW-DT. However, it's not quite the same signal strength as those two.


----------



## trekkerj

ABC is coming from the 4 times square building.


As for the others, I too applaud WABC and WNBC for the temporary solutions, but wish WPIX would do something to increase their transmission power, like also moving to Times Square. But, it probably doesn't make financial sense. You should see what I have to do just to lock into their signal, which breaks up very often even when I do. Barely watchable. That's what I was looking forward to with this project--getting them back on UHF 33 for reliable reception. Unless you are right near the city or have a outside antenna, it's real tough, if not impossible, to pull them in.


----------



## trumpace

You think you've got trouble, trekkerj?

I'm right in the west side of Manhattan and I've been unable to pick up NBC-DT,

although I do receive all the other local channels including 3 subchannels of WNET.

Anyone else on the westside who can pickup NBC?


----------



## trekkerj

If I could, I'd trade you NBC for WPIX.







NBC's HD is terrible. You're not missing anything. They must use really old equipment, because it's the softest looking 'HD' i've seen. I'd much rather watch Angel without a million breakups of the audio and video.


----------



## oprig

I'm on the westside (W69 btwn CPW & Columbus) and I get NBC-DT fine -- never had a peak out of WNET-DT on the signal meter.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trumpace_
> *I'm right in the west side of Manhattan and I've been unable to pick up NBC-DT, although I do receive all the other local channels including 3 subchannels of WNET.*



Hadn't heard WNET-DT had switched to 3 subchannels, which apparently WNJN PBS in N.J. also transmits. Is WNET-DT attempting "true" 1080i with three subchannels? How is WNET's OTA 1080i fidelity these days? (BTW, can't get NBC-DT, or anything but WCBS-DT, on the eastside parallel to all the stations. -- John


----------



## Megahurts




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *If I could, I'd trade you NBC for WPIX.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NBC's HD is terrible. You're not missing anything. They must use really old equipment, because it's the softest looking 'HD' i've seen. I'd much rather watch Angel without a million breakups of the audio and video.*



I believe the the exciter is pretty new and state of the art. The afterburner is a loaner tho. HD video is actually quite good. Audio is acceptable.

Let's see what everyone on ESB looks like after the big "combiner" is finally completed.

MHz


----------



## trekkerj

What I meant was that whatever process the use to transfer film to HD doesn't do a very good job. Stuff like Leno on video is fine, though.


----------



## trumpace




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *Hadn't heard WNET-DT had switched to 3 subchannels, which apparently WNJN PBS in N.J. also transmits. Is WNET-DT attempting "true" 1080i with three subchannels? How is WNET's OTA 1080i fidelity these days? (BTW, can't get NBC-DT, or anything but WCBS-DT, on the eastside parallel to all the stations. -- John*



John: Actually WNET-DT has been broadcasting on 3 subchannels for some time.

13-1 seems to be mostly 1080i, the HD loop + some HD shows. 13-2 kids channel (SD)_, 13-3, same as WNET analog.

They've recently added a fourth subchannel, 13-111, no video, contents unknown.


Does anyone know what 13-111 is?


----------



## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jackw_
> *I live in the huntington area of long island about 40 miles east of nyc , can someone tell me if i can recieve ota hdtv from this distance? and if so what kind of antennae should i buy?*



You can definitely receive OTA from that distance. I'm in Huntington Station (right near Jericho Tpke & Rte 110). I'm able to get CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, PBS (channel 21) all of the time. From time to time, I'm also able to receive WPIX.


I have a Channel Master 3678 UHF/VHF antenna with a rotor. I got this combination so that I could receive ABC via channel 8 in Connecticut before WABC went on the air. I rarely use the rotor anymore, but channel 21 reception is better if I rotate the antenna a little bit.


I'm going to assume that you live north of me. If that's the case, and you want to receive PBS on channel 21, you probably want to get a rotor. If you live south of me, the tower for channel 21 is probably somewhat in line with direction of the Empire State Building. In that case, a rotor is probably not necessary.


----------



## offandon

I just received my TS360 and will not be setting up the 3LNB dish until next weekend, but I wanted to see what I could get OTA. I had some rabbit ears/loop laying around and I am able to get WCBS on CH56. I live near the top of Mine Hill in Morris Cty and may put up a real antenna soon, but just wanted to see what OTA digital TV would look like.


Last night I tuned into CSI because the CBS site says it is in HD. My picture did not look so great to me ... about comparible to what I see on DirecTV. Any solid backgrounds looked soft, snowy, fuzzy to me ... not what I would expect from an HD broadcast.


Does anyone have any suggestions? I am using the DVI cable to attach to my Sony KP57WV700 ... could that be it? Could it be low signal strength? I had pixellation a couple of times for a second or 2 in a 5 minute stretch. I could just wait the week and see what the DTV feed of CBS looks like but I see so many knowledgeable people here that I thought I would ask if anyone has a tip that could help.


----------



## trekkerj

If you are saying that the CSI in HD looked similar to the regular version on DirecTV, then you are doing something wrong.


----------



## offandon

The trick for me will be to figure out what I am doing wrong. I will need to keep researching ... I was hoping that things would be fairly automatic using the DVI cable.


It didn't look the same as the DirecTV channel 2, but I wouldn't call it much better. I have seen some Discovery HD at a friends house and was blown away by what that looked like ... this was not nearly that good.


----------



## trekkerj

Then maybe you're not doing anything wrong. Pretty much all TV shows are shot on film, and then transferred to HD. Don't expect that to look like DiscoveryHD, which uses HD video (same as live sports events). Still, it should look a lot better than your regular SD ch 2 version. Especially on those shots of the strip in Vegas. To maximize the experience, make sure you tv is calibrated either professionally, or by yourself using the Video Essentials or Avia discs. Usually people tend to have the brightness and constrast set WAY too high, which can damage the set and wash out the picture. Make sure the viewing environment is as dark as possible.


----------



## Infominister

When watching any program that purports to be "HD" you're going to see great variance in PQ between, say, a live event in the sunshine using HD cameras, like a football game; HD video productions, ala Discovery Theatre HD; an HD upconversion of an old TV show or movie, e.g., Charlie's Angels; and current TV shows shot on either film or video and upscaled to HD, e.g., CSI, Everybody Loves Raymond, etc. Plus, the indoor shots on a show like CSI are deliberately made to look shadowy and moody. (Funny, since most labs and police headquarters I've ever seen are brightly lit with flourescent lights.)


Sorry, I seem to be repeating the same thing as Trekkerj. I posted my reply before seeing his. What is it they say?.....Great minds think alike?


----------



## Anthony in NYC

Currently, I am using an RS Double Bowtie with the Channel Master preamp for OTA HD. I can get CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX with signal strength around the 80's (some lower and some higher) and occassionally I can get 28 (which I think is WILW) and 40 which seems to be some spanish language station, both weakly. I cannot get any PBS reliably and because the RS Double Bowtie is UHF only I can't get WB.


I am going to have to do some work when my HD-Tivo comes to run the extra line from the dish. I am wondering if it's worth the extra effort to put an outdoor antenna up. I was thinking about something like this

http://www.tvantenna.com/products/tv...rd/sensar.html 


If I can get 80's indoor I am sure my signal strength roof top would be near 100% for all channels. I'm just not sure it's worth the effort. Any input would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## trekkerj

From brooklyn, you should be able to pick up at least a blip from WPIX even with the UHF. If you're not, your preamp is probably UHF and is filtering out the VHF. If so, try connecting the antenna directly to the STB and try VHF ch 12.


For PBS, try ch 50 (WNJN). It's pretty strong. WLIW should be very possible also. I am getting it from NJ using the same set up. Point the antenna toward Eastern Long Island, and tune to ch 22.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

I have the Channel Master 7777. Do I have it configuired incorrectly? I have the cable from the RS Double bowtie going into combined jack.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...om=zoomA#xview


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I am in south Brooklyn & get CBS-DT,WNBC-DT,WNYW-DT It'S analog sub WOR, WABC-DT 7.01&0.2 the WB & all it's subs & PBS & It's 4 or 5 subs. The WB has changed once again. They are on 11.01 & .02 + 12.01 & 0.2 & ch 75.01 all OTA with a dual band vhf/uhf terk antenna on a 2 story with little obstruction heading toward NYC. peace


fmonkey-


----------



## trekkerj

The 7777 should be good enough. Even from 30 miles out I get a peep on ch 12 with the RS double bow tie. However, if I want to actually lock in, I need to use a vhf antenna. Try a pair of rabbit ears, open them 1/3 - 1/2 of the way, and see what happens.


----------



## ajw22




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by offandon_
> *I just received my TS360 and will not be setting up the 3LNB dish until next weekend, but I wanted to see what I could get OTA. ... My picture did not look so great to me ... about comparible to what I see on DirecTV. Any solid backgrounds looked soft, snowy, fuzzy to me ... not what I would expect from an HD broadcast.*



It sounds like you have the same setup I had. I have an old single LNB round dish. I got a TS360 and am waiting for the triple LNB to be installed. In the meantime I setup the TS360 to get OTA stations. I then swapped in the TS360 and activated it with Directv. I was surprised to find I now get CBS-HD on channel 80 from Directv even though I have my old round dish.


Consider activating your 360 with Directv while you wait for the dish to be changed.


CBS-HD on channel 80 and OTA look the same. I am using a SS antenna indoors. Doings some A/B tests with the Directv CBS SD channel I see the difference. With some program material it is more obvious then other.


I am using a DVI cable into s Sony 34XBR910. Make sure you have set the preferences in the 360 for your TV to be 16:9 and slide open the bottom of the remote and toggle the format button until you get 16:9 Full while on the CBS HDTV channel.


It seems like many of the 360 defults are not the best for pure HDTV feeds.


Allen


----------



## trekkerj

Is anyone having some issues with WABC tonight? I've NEVER had a single problem with them, but tonight, I am getting periodic dropouts of zero signal.


----------



## offandon

Allen, thanks for the tip. I tuned into JAG for a while and switched back and forth between Ch 2 on DTV and Ch 2-1 OTA. I can see a definite improvement OTA, but I think I may have been expecting a little too much. I can't wait for some sports to watch in HDTV ... I hear it is awesome.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Is anyone having some issues with WABC tonight? I've NEVER had a single problem with them, but tonight, I am getting periodic dropouts of zero signal.*



No. I find that I have to adjust my indoor every couple of weeks or so. I am within 12 miles of NYC.


----------



## trekkerj

Must be something locally that is causing problems. My indoor is in the same spot, no problems. NBC is fine. Oh well, probably a temporary anomaly.


----------



## s236

ABC is doing alot HD testing this morning on the OTA signal. Check it out if your up its around 8:07 am.


tony


----------



## Ken Ross

Some of the pieces in the test loop should put to rest any doubts about how exceptionally good 720p can look.


----------



## kcn823

Test is still happening at 11:45am.


----------



## seaford

regarding CBS, DirecTV & offandon,


I get 1080 reception for CBS only via my rooftop. DirecTV CH. 2 is not HD and I would argue that Ch. 80 on D* is HD, it is not 1080. My only test was during the superbowl. My experience in S/E Nassau is that OTA CBS has the strongest signal and best piture at 1080i. YMMV


----------



## ajw22

Thanks for posting about the ABC HD test loop. It's still running at 12:45PM.


I just got a Samsung TS-360 OTA feed running this week to my XBR910 so it was a great demo for me of what HDTV can look like. It's interesting that the test loop looks like it was from Feb 1999. One clip shows the WTC.


I'm ready for HD MNF on ABC in the fall.


Allen


----------



## dm145

Loop:

Also shows the Met Life Building still under construction. Good Day NY in HD with Diane Sawyer talking about 720p. Monsters Inc looks awesome.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

WOW!, NASCAR in HD on WNBC-DT. I just got home from work I had no idea. A loop on WABC-DT, & A SS speaker test. What is this about?

Edited: I just notice where some one posted that this WABC-DT loop is on w/pattern tests & speaker tests. Thanks for the heads up. Does any one know as to why they are doing this just OTA, cablevision has college basketball on CV CBS-DT. WABC-DT looking great & real serious about HD. peace


fmonkey-


----------



## blazeby

For the record WABC-DT were also showing the loops today on TWCNYC.


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else using OTA seeing shooting black lines on 7-1's presentation of "The Princess Diaries"???


I'm getting it on all 3 of my E86's OTA from 2 different antennas.


Guess no one is watching this cheesy flick eh?


----------



## pabuwal




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Anyone else using OTA seeing shooting black lines on 7-1's presentation of "The Princess Diaries"???
> 
> 
> I'm getting it on all 3 of my E86's OTA from 2 different antennas.
> 
> 
> Guess no one is watching this cheesy flick eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *




For the 5 mins I watched on WABC, the lines were there (except they were shooting white lines for me??). The Phil affiliate, WPVI did not have these lines. WPVI generally has no problems while it seems WABC is still working out the kinks.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Anyone else using OTA seeing shooting black lines on 7-1's presentation of "The Princess Diaries"???
> 
> 
> I'm getting it on all 3 of my E86's OTA from 2 different antennas.
> 
> 
> Guess no one is watching this cheesy flick eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *




Unless you have a pre teen daughter or niece, why would you watch it?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Unless you have a pre teen daughter or niece, why would you watch it?*



Because it's in HD or course










Honestly, I'll tool by most anything that I notice is in HD to see how the PQ/transfer looks. I guess no one was tooling by 7-1 last night then. There was a plethora of HD programming on last night.......most notably basketball programming. Which is a GOOD thing.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

I'm about 10 miles from the ESB, with a clear line of sight. Will I be able to get WPIX with just an indoor antenna?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Your best bet is to try, I am about 7 miles & get the WB. Try to get a dealer who will give you a refund if it doesn't work for you. If at all possible get an out door antenna, a dual band uhf/vhf that would be your best shot at maximum reception. Good luck


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Unoriginal Nick_
> *I'm about 10 miles from the ESB, with a clear line of sight. Will I be able to get WPIX with just an indoor antenna?*


----------



## Scott G

I currently have a Channel Master 4228 with aWinegard AP4800 preamp and get all the locals well except for WPIX-DT. My preamp is UHF only and I would need a VHF/UHF preamp such as the Winegard AP8275 or the Channel Master 7777 to get WPIX-DT. I would love to try one of these preamps, but I would like it to be returnable if I try it and it does not bring in WPIX-DT. Does anyone know of anyone place in the NY area or online I can buy a preamp, and try it where it is returnable if it does not work ? I want to buy one, but keep it only if it works for WPIX-DT.


Thanks for the help.


Scott


----------



## jaypb

Channel 4-1 is either late in presenting the HD version of Shrek or someone is asleep at the wheel.


What's that phone #? My kids are SCREAMING at me now that I told them Shrek would be on in HD!


----------



## Unoriginal Nick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by feloniousmonkey_
> *Your best bet is to try, I am about 7 miles & get the WB. Try to get a dealer who will give you a refund if it doesn't work for you. If at all possible get an out door antenna, a dual band uhf/vhf that would be your best shot at maximum reception. Good luck
> 
> 
> fmonkey-*



Thanks. Unfortunately, an outdoor antenna isn't an option for me. I still haven't decided which HDTV card I'm getting, so I have a little time to research for good antennas.


----------



## UroDoc

Scott G


I'm in Westbury and I'm using a Channel Master 7777 with a Channel Master 4248 UHF only antenna and I receive WPIX-DT without any issues. I picked it up at L&L in Syosset. Slightly more than the cheapest online but they had in in stock. Their web site is:

http://www.lnl.com/ 


I also have a Channel Master 9521A rotator which helps when picking up NBC-DT and WLIR-DT


----------



## dm145

NBC constantly switches to HD late. ABC has black lines through lower third of screen (a couple of weeks ago it was flashing/flickering). I guess CBS is the only major in the #1 market that knows how to produce HD. Jeers NBC/ABC, cheers CBS.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I guess CBS is the only major in the #1 market that knows how to produce HD.*



Yeah, now if they can only figure out how not to make the commercials so much louder than the programming, to get Dolby Digital 5.1 to work for scripted programming and to avoid audio drop-outs on DD live programming.


----------



## pabuwal




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *NBC constantly switches to HD late. ABC has black lines through lower third of screen (a couple of weeks ago it was flashing/flickering). I guess CBS is the only major in the #1 market that knows how to produce HD. Jeers NBC/ABC, cheers CBS.*



I think this is due to the timeframe these DT stations have been up. Philly's NBC and ABC don't seem to have the same problems that the NYC stations do. I'm sure they'll work out the kinks by the time the combiner goes up.


----------



## trekkerj

The NBC late-switching problem is a national issue for NBC, as the programming forum points out. Just take "Shrek" last night which switched to HD 15 minutes in.


----------



## baronmon

Just got my GWIII for valentines day, picked up the $300 OTA Motorola Box from CC ($250 after rebate) and a silver sensor. I had some trouble picking up more than two channels at a time without moving the antenna here in Elmont. Then I tilted the antenna about 75 degrees up in the corner of my room and hit a sweet spot where i pick up NBC, ABC, CBC, FOX, and WLIW-HD in garden city without having to move the thing at all! Wonderful picture and the box was a great deal. Interface is a bit cheesy but I don't care since it does what's advertised.


----------



## Swisher

I've always had difficulty getting a stable signal from WPIX with my Silver Sensor. It was always on the borderline of coming in strong enough because the frequency is too low for the SS. I'm sure this is pretty unconventional, but I clipped on a couple of aluminum clamps (about 3" long) to the ends of the longest dipole and now get a strong signal on PIX without adversely affecting the others. Since PIX is broadcasting in the high VHF range, the SS Antenna isn't designed to pick it up, but with this easy modification to the longest dipole (lowest freq.), CH 12 pulls in. I would think large paper clips would work as well. This will be great until WPIX switches over to UHF.


----------



## tsienlin

hi everyone, i'm new to the forum as well as hdtv. just want to thank you all for the info that's in this forum. really helped me out when picking out a hd receiver.


was just wondering if people had problems with CSI last night.. i had so many dropouts that it was unwatchable. i usually get pretty good reception from cbs, was just bad last night.


thanks


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tsienlin_
> *hi everyone, i'm new to the forum as well as hdtv. just want to thank you all for the info that's in this forum. really helped me out when picking out a hd receiver.
> 
> 
> was just wondering if people had problems with CSI last night.. i had so many dropouts that it was unwatchable. i usually get pretty good reception from cbs, was just bad last night.
> 
> 
> thanks*



Looked fine all the way down here in E. Brunswick NJ!


----------



## lmitch55

Is there an estimated time/date that NBC-DT is going to go full power? Are they at as much power as they're going to be?


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by lmitch55_
> *Is there an estimated time/date that NBC-DT is going to go full power? Are they at as much power as they're going to be?*



Not until the combiner is completed, which at this rate, it may not be until June.....................what YEAR is the real question!


----------



## sting0r

Doh! What happened to March for the combiner. How hard is it to get this thing done already!!!!


----------



## trekkerj

What's going on with WPIX tonight? No HD for Smallville, and 11-1 has the sound all messed up....


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Yes, same here. Static on the sound everything is out of sync. They are having obvious problems.


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *What's going on with WPIX tonight? No HD for Smallville, and 11-1 has the sound all messed up....*


----------



## kaiming

yeah angel is messed up. whats the number?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

The only # I have is the engineers room which is probably closed but you should get a machine. Voice your opinion







) 212-949-1100/Or you can watch PBS a digi tv prg is on


f


----------



## trekkerj

also tell them not to CANCEL Angel, especially if they're going to screw up the HD on one of the final episodes.


----------



## Scott G

What in the world is WNBC-DT doing ? It looks like they are multicasting and ruined their PQ. I am now getting channel 4.2 with 4.1 and the PQ on the news is terrible compared to normal. The PQ on the news almost looks like analog. Put it back the old way, please...


Scott


----------



## feloniousmonkey

My integrated mits recognizes 4.01 & .02 also. But I can't really see a drop in picture quality. I would have to see an HD prg. to really notice the deteriation if any. I guess it is multi-casting for everyone


fmonkey-


----------



## Scott G

I watch the news everyday on WNBC-DT and take my word for it the PQ has dropped dramatically. I have it now on Cablevision and OTA and it looks equally terrible on both.


Scott


----------



## trekkerj

Holy crap, you're right. It looks just like analog ch. 4 on cable. It used to be the best digital standard-def picture out there.


I wonder how the HD programs will look tonight.


I hope this isn't permanent.


----------



## trekkerj

On my OTA tuner, 4-2 is WNBC-SD. ABC does this, but their 7-1 channel doesn't suffer. I think they are pumping too much bandwidth into the SD subchannel. Why do they even need one?


----------



## Scott G

I was just notified by an NBC engineer that they are going to be mulitcasting. Many of the decoders are picking up the wrong channel as the PSIP changed. Cablevision also has the wrong channel on. They shut down the multicasting for the weekend and it should be back to normal now. However, Monday hopefully Cablevision and the decoders picking up the wrong signal will be fixed when the multicasting starts again.


We actually were seeing 4.2 on Cablevision.


Scott


----------



## trekkerj

Interesting. Did he say why they are multicasting? Seems like a waste of one of the clearest digital pictures there is in NY. (in SD anyway)


However, now I'm not getting any sound.


----------



## Scott G

Yup, no sound on Cablevision 704, but I do have sound on 4.1 OTA.


Scott


----------



## trekkerj

Good, at least I can fall back on that for Third Watch if CV is still a no-go. Didn't feel like hooking up my antenna to check.


----------



## John Mason

Haven't noticed these poorer-image changes via Time Warner Cable's fiber pickup from WNBC-DT (haven't watched). But a Fox engineer in a recent programming forum thread said stations and cable headends prefer to send/receive the multicast versions of signals, with cable headends extracting their 1080i or 720p signals. Apparently is takes a separate and costly encoder if stations or cable headends want to pass along a 'full' 1080i signal without the bit rate reduction required for one or more subchannels. Other than special broadcasts there's nothing I watch on NBC, but if CBS and other stations follow with multicasting, with no 'full' 1080i made available to cable, suspect I'll be shifting almost entirely to HDNet, Discovery HD Theater, HBO, etc. and whatever else sloooowly trickles onto Time Warner Cable and RCN. (Greedily, I subscribe to both.) -- John


----------



## jaypb

Anyone know if ABC has any "set" schedule when they throw up their test pattern/demo loop as they did a few weekends ago? I know the only 2 times I've seen them is on the weekends.....and I recently bought a 30" WS Directview TV that I'd like to "tweak" in the Service Menu......and since HDNET only does their test patterns on a Tuesday AM......I'm thinking ABC *may* be my only opportunity to tweak the 1080I signal input on my Philips 30pw850h.


Thanks.


----------



## bgut1

Okay its March ..... where is the combiner!!!!!!


----------



## trekkerj

june


----------



## Scott G

Is June a firm date or in June will we hear September on and on and on...


Scott


----------



## trekkerj

i'm only repeating what I hear from these forums. Someone posted a little while back that June seemed realistic to everyone involved. At this point, with all my shows likely going off the air next season, and based on the fact that I get pretty much everything either from cable or from the secondary sites in use, I could care less anymore. If they would have had it done last November, that would have been great. All i wanted it for is WPIX, which comes in quite poorly. Since I won't get it before the season ends in may, all it will be good for is a couple of weekend Met games this summer, but I'm a Yankee fan anyway.


----------



## Scott G

That is what I want it for, the Met games on WPIX. That is the only one I cannot get.


Scott


----------



## dturturro

The Met games are actually broadcast in HD?! I guess Freddy Coupons has nothing to do with the TV end. GOOD!


----------



## trekkerj

Yeah, they started broadcasting their home games on the weekend in HD via MSG's equipment. I assume they will be doing the same this year, hopefully more of them (if not all).


----------



## feloniousmonkey

Most games on the WB looked great last year. I think PIX did a great job with it. They did have technical difficulties once in a while. Looking forward to this season. peace


fmonkey-


----------



## trekkerj

And hopefully YES network sometime this year, which hopefully means a couple of CBS games toward the end of the season.


Speaking of WPIX, I was looking forward to Angel in HD tonight, but because of my distance from ESB, and the fact that I cannot have an outdoor antenna, I rely on my altitude, as much multipath as I can get, and then I still need good tropo to get a signal. Tropo must be bad tonight as I can't even pick up a blip. Dammit.


----------



## cpto

Has ABC lowered power? The last two times I watched (Academy Awards and Kingdom Hospital) I've had a lot of freezes and dropouts, and the signal strength varies quite a bit. Prior to Sunday, I haven't had many problems. Appreciate any info. Thanks.


Rick


----------



## trekkerj

No problems for me. Actually seems stronger for me, which is strange because we are in the same direction. I have a higher altitude though...


----------



## Remus

When I ran the coaxial cable that I had from my OTA antenna to my STB I could reach but it was still a little short. I want to buy a new longer coaxial (+-100') cable. Is one better than the next - i.e. RG6 vs. RG59?


----------



## SnellKrell

Remus -


Yes! - there is a huge difference.


Only use RG6 - NEVER use RG59.


In fact, go for extra bucks and get quad-shielded RG6 - depending on your inviornment, can be helpful.


Also, with a run longer than 100' feet, you well might need a pre-amp at your OTA antenna. Try in first without buying a pre-amp and judge the quality of your reception.


Gary


----------



## Infominister

Concert for George


I was very disappointed that PBS's "Concert for George" while listed in the DirecTV Guide as airing on Channel 50-5 (WNJN-DT) in HD, did not air. They were running some PBS-HD New Jersey loop. Had to watch it on D*TV's Channel 13 in SD w/o Dolby Digital.

Was this some sort of blackout provision protecting WNET?


----------



## DjPiLL

Hey guys.... i am a first-time poster in this thread and don't really have the time to read all 77 pages.










I am a Time Warner subscriber. I am contemplating going to RCN to get ESPN-HD... however I am a bigtime Met fan. I would love to get WB-11 in Hi-Def.


I live in Queens in a six story building. What are my options using OTA equipment to get WB-HD and maybe some other channels as well like ESPN and INHD.


Help a newb out. Thanks.


----------



## trekkerj

You should be able to get WB 11 from Queens with an indoor antenna, if not, then adding a preamp would possibly work. But you are close enough for reception. Check antennaweb.org and put in your exact address.


----------



## DjPiLL

Well I put in my address... and I got back a bunch of channels. I clicked "show me digital channels only" and WPIX-DT was listed. How do I know which ones are Hi-Def or not?


Also... how much am I looking at for an antenna and where can I get them? Any AVS-supported sites above sell these antennas?


----------



## DjPiLL

One other point i'd like to make. I see this Zenith Silver ZHDTV1

indoor antenna. My plasma HDTV does not have a built on tuner (I use TWC STB for this). Would I need to buy a separate OTA tuner box along with the antenna?


----------



## trekkerj

Yes, you would need a OTA STB. DT channels are the digital/hi-def channels. Whether or not the channel is hi-def depends on the station/network.


----------



## DjPiLL

Can I just buy the Zenith antenna and take the antenna over to my buddy's place that has a 34" Wega HDTV CRT with a built on HD tuner and not buy the OTA STB?


The STB is pretty pricey to risk not being able to get any decent channels.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DjPiLL_
> *Can I just buy the Zenith antenna and take the antenna over to my buddy's place that has a 34" Wega HDTV CRT with a built on HD tuner and not buy the OTA STB?
> 
> 
> The STB is pretty pricey to risk not being able to get any decent channels.*



It depends where you buddy lives with respect to you. Short distances or elevations can change reception quite a bit. Particularly with an indoor installation.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Concert for George
> 
> 
> I was very disappointed that PBS's "Concert for George" while listed in the DirecTV Guide as airing on Channel 50-5 (WNJN-DT) in HD, did not air. They were running some PBS-HD New Jersey loop. Had to watch it on D*TV's Channel 13 in SD w/o Dolby Digital.
> 
> Was this some sort of blackout provision protecting WNET?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



They started showing the loop again on Monday. Do not know why? Stinks.


----------



## ghostman

As far as OTA reception and tuners, I'd look at eBay for tuners. I bought a Samsung SIR-T151 tuner last month on eBay. It isn't the most cutting edge tuner, but I wanted to get my feet wet with HD reception and not beak the bank. It does the trick so far while I'm waiting for RCN to upgrade my building.


The antenna was a different story. I'm in a high-rise in midtown Manhattan (close but no direct line of site of ESB), so I have to use an indoor antenna. I bought a Megawave and is works okay, but my best results are with either a really cheap FM ribbon (the cheap thing you get with a FM reciever) or a 20 year old Technics FM wing antenna. The Technics get the best overall reception.


I'm getting WCBS, WNBC (weak), WABC, and WPIX (and channel 40 - one of the Spanish stations). I've never been able to get FOX or any PBS.


Good Luck.


----------



## Remus

Gary - Thanx. I already have a pre-amp set up on my Channelmaster Stealthtenna 3010. My reception here in Rockland County is great as I get all the expected channels plus pull in a lot of CT. channels. I'll try the quad-shield RG6.


----------



## DjPiLL

Ok.... I just picked up a very cheap samsung sir-t150 tuner and a zenith silver sensor.


Can somebody point me to a link or better give me the quick how-to for a newb on how to see if I can get wb-11hd. Antennaweb.org had it listed at 13 miles away.


Thanks


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DjPiLL_
> *Ok.... I just picked up a very cheap samsung sir-t150 tuner and a zenith silver sensor.
> 
> 
> Can somebody point me to a link or better give me the quick how-to for a newb on how to see if I can get wb-11hd. Antennaweb.org had it listed at 13 miles away.
> 
> 
> Thanks*



DOH!! Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Silver Sensor is UHF only. Since the WB is on VHF frequency, you most likely will not pick it up. It's on Channel 12 (11-1).


----------



## trumpace

I'm located in Manhattan on 22nd street on the west side. I use a Silver Sensor and can pick up CBS,ABC,FOX,UPN,WB, and WNET, everything except NBC-DT.


Larry


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *DOH!! Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Silver Sensor is UHF only. Since the WB is on VHF frequency, you most likely will not pick it up. It's on Channel 12 (11-1).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



UHF Antennas can usually pick up High VHF (7-13) as well.


----------



## DjPiLL

Ok.... well i am trying this out.... but im getting zero reception. No signal whatsoever. I dont think i have it connected or setup properly. I am connected to RF Input with the antenna. I then go to test signal strength and i get zero signal. Nada. Its very possible i wont be able to get any channels clearly out here... but im not getting anything period. Not even any fuzzy pictures. Any ideas?


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DjPiLL_
> *Ok.... well i am trying this out.... but im getting zero reception. No signal whatsoever. I dont think i have it connected or setup properly. I am connected to RF Input with the antenna. I then go to test signal strength and i get zero signal. Nada. Its very possible i wont be able to get any channels clearly out here... but im not getting anything period. Not even any fuzzy pictures. Any ideas?*



Again, I'm not familiar with your STB, but don't you have to scan for channels when you first set it up?


----------



## DjPiLL

Ok... I can get 2-1 (CBS), 4-1 (NBC), 21-1 (PBS).... thats all I seem to be getting. Anything I can get to amplify this signal?


----------



## trekkerj

If you're in NYC, a preamp probably won't help much (may even hurt). Keep trying different antenna orientations. The silver sensor is HIGHLY directional, and you are very close to the transmitters. Rotating it even slightly can make a big difference. Keep playing around. ABC is very strong, try for that.


----------



## DjPiLL

Ok.... I can get ABC I believe... and I can get parts of WPIX. Its a little pixelated at times. I can see the empire state building from my window... granted its about 15 miles away. I take it a preamp will still hinder me?


----------



## trekkerj

15 miles? I though you were in Manhattan.










A preamp might help you then.


----------



## DjPiLL

Ok here is the deal.


I went out and bought a preamp but it really didnt help me.


However... I found the place in my apartment that gives me my best reception. I get a lot of channels now... including WB-HD which is the whole reason why I wanted this OTA setup.


I have west faceing windows in my apartment on the 5th floor and I can actually see the empire state building from my apartment... granted I live in Bayside/Oakland Gardens Queens. SO i guess I have a nice line to sight so to say.










Anyways... I had to put the SS antenna.... outside... sitting on a window bracket that normally holds an air-conditioner. This is located in my second smaller bedroom... on the complete opposite side where my plasma is located. I bought a 50ft coaxial cable to tool around with this... and I am now watching Reba in HiDef on WB-11. The picture looks sweet. The Dolby Digital audio just flickered once in 10 mins of watching so far.


I don't have any cable wires or TVs ran into that room... so I will have to think of a more permanent solution. Also... the SS antenna isnt sitting too sturdy on the AC bracket... i might have to tie it down. Are these antenna's weather proof? Doesnt seem like there are any electronics inside the antenna... just metal. In fact right now its VERY foggy and misty-rain out... and im not having any issues.


Well this is seriously looking good. I might switch to RCN from Time Warner and ill just have the RCN guys run a permanent coaxial run into that room. Ill tell them i am going to put a TV in there... but ill just use that wire for the OTA antenna.










I ended up buying two of these OTA receivers... SIR-T150 but I probably will only use one so ill just sell the other or ebay it i suppose.


My fiancee is gonna be real happy cause one of her favorite shows is Gilmore Girls.


----------



## tpan413

Got in on the Samsung deal at Best Buy. I purchased the Sir-t151 and the Silver Sensor indoor antenna, outdoor antenna is not an option. I live in Brooklyn about 8 miles from the Empire State Building. I live across the street from a school and my reception quality is poor. Signal strength is less than 50% on all channels and I only get 2-1, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1 & 7-2. I have an old UHF & VHF antenna that nearly gives me the same signal strength on all channels. Last night I found out that I have an old roof mounted antenna and I hooked it up. The reception quality is a little better and I get the following stations 2-1, 4-1, 4-2, 7-1, 7-2, 50-1, 50-2, 50-3, & 50-4. But I really want 5-1 along with the previous stations. Is there any way for me to hook up a splitter or something so I can utilize both antennas? Also, why can't I get WPIX at all, I know it is VHF but I should be able to get a signal with one of these configurations. Any help or suggestions to improve my PQ or setup will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Infominister

If you're able to pick up all those other stations, some of which are much weaker than 5-1, you should be able to get 5-1. Try some minor directional adjustments until you hit the sweet spot.


----------



## ghostman

I've got the SIR-T151, an indoor antenna and live within a mile of both Conde Nas (actually line of sight to where WABC has their transmitter) and ESB. I've never been able to get the signal strength more than 55-60%. I get WNBC clear as a bell at only 20%. And no matter how I move antennas, signal strength for each channel remains constant at the same number. I think it might be a flaw in the tuner design.


I'm going to upgrade my cabling to RG-6 Quad Shield and gold fittings and see if it makes a difference. I think the levels will be close the same considering the length of my antenna cable is about 12'. But the cable will look nicer and it might shield out some of the interference from other things in my apartment. Who knows - maybe I'll be able to get FOX or PBS with better cable.


I'll keep you posted.


----------



## DjPiLL




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tpan413_
> *Last night I found out that I have an old roof mounted antenna and I hooked it up. The reception quality is a little better and I get the following stations 2-1, 4-1, 4-2, 7-1, 7-2, 50-1, 50-2, 50-3, & 50-4. But I really want 5-1 along with the previous stations. Is there any way for me to hook up a splitter or something so I can utilize both antennas? Also, why can't I get WPIX at all, I know it is VHF but I should be able to get a signal with one of these configurations. Any help or suggestions to improve my PQ or setup will be greatly appreciated.*




This gave me an idea. My living room that has my plasma has my old building OTA cable jack that I never used. Well I plugged my tuner into that... and I do get a signal... but all I get is four channels of WB11-HD. I get 11-1, 11-2, 12-1, and 75-1. I take it this is a VHF only antenna thats on the roof of my building. PQ is ok. Its not as good as the SS as I get slight audio dropouts every few minutes, accompanied with pixelation. It seems like the commercials produce pixelation a lot more which is weird. Im waiting for a true-HD show to come on to judge for sure.


If this is watchable... as I only care about WB-HD for my OTA setup... this makes a good temporary solution as compared to running a wire throughout my apartment to an antenna thats hanging outside.


----------



## DjPiLL

In my previous setup when I used the antenna in the window... i had a 50' cable i was using. It didnt seem to hamper the reception at all. Cable was RG-6.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DjPiLL_
> *Ok here is the deal.
> 
> 
> I went out and bought a preamp but it really didnt help me.
> 
> 
> However... I found the place in my apartment that gives me my best reception. I get a lot of channels now... including WB-HD which is the whole reason why I wanted this OTA setup.
> 
> 
> I have west faceing windows in my apartment on the 5th floor and I can actually see the empire state building from my apartment... granted I live in Bayside/Oakland Gardens Queens. SO i guess I have a nice line to sight so to say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways... I had to put the SS antenna.... outside... sitting on a window bracket that normally holds an air-conditioner. This is located in my second smaller bedroom... on the complete opposite side where my plasma is located. I bought a 50ft coaxial cable to tool around with this... and I am now watching Reba in HiDef on WB-11. The picture looks sweet. The Dolby Digital audio just flickered once in 10 mins of watching so far.
> 
> 
> I don't have any cable wires or TVs ran into that room... so I will have to think of a more permanent solution. Also... the SS antenna isnt sitting too sturdy on the AC bracket... i might have to tie it down. Are these antenna's weather proof? Doesnt seem like there are any electronics inside the antenna... just metal. In fact right now its VERY foggy and misty-rain out... and im not having any issues.
> 
> 
> Well this is seriously looking good. I might switch to RCN from Time Warner and ill just have the RCN guys run a permanent coaxial run into that room. Ill tell them i am going to put a TV in there... but ill just use that wire for the OTA antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ended up buying two of these OTA receivers... SIR-T150 but I probably will only use one so ill just sell the other or ebay it i suppose.
> 
> 
> My fiancee is gonna be real happy cause one of her favorite shows is Gilmore Girls.*



The Silver Sensor is not really an outdoor antena if you plan to leave it oustside I would put a weather boot on the coax to keep moisture out


----------



## vinnyv07

I was wondering if anone has any info on where some of the digital ch's are on the UHF dial. I am getting CBS-DT at 56-1...and Im getting PBS CH's on 51-1 thrur 4 ....but my question is WABC-DT is listed as 7-1...but thats remapped from its original station which is somewhere on the UHF dial correct? WHat about NBC-DT, they are listed at 4-1...but where do you first pull that ch in from before it get remapped?


----------



## trekkerj

antennaweb.org


----------



## jayboy

I live in Forest Hills Queens, about 9 miles from the ESB.

I am able to get all HDTV OTA from 2 through 9. I cant get anything above channel 9. I have a old/cheap antenea mounted on the roof of the six story buliding.


Do any of you guys in Queens have a similiar problem?


Thanks

Jason


----------



## dm145

WABC-DT signal is all over the place, is it just me?


----------



## motjes2

Same here...


----------



## trekkerj

Wow, it's horrible, what are they doing? Have the aliens finally invaded?


----------



## vruiz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *I was wondering if anone has any info on where some of the digital ch's are on the UHF dial. I am getting CBS-DT at 56-1...and Im getting PBS CH's on 51-1 thrur 4 ....but my question is WABC-DT is listed as 7-1...but thats remapped from its original station which is somewhere on the UHF dial correct? WHat about NBC-DT, they are listed at 4-1...but where do you first pull that ch in from before it get remapped?*



WABC is 45, WNBC is 28.


----------



## tpan413

I am having trouble with WABC also. I just spent an hour playing with my connections thinking it was only me. Hope they fix it soon.


----------



## cpto

Having problems here too - the signal on my Zenith jumps from zero to marginal.


I've been having dropout problems since the night of the Academy Awards. Before that, WABC was rock solid for me.


Rick


----------



## MLM

Same here. ABC was solid up to Academy Awards here in Bayside. I haven't looked at it since, but this evening it was unwatchable.


----------



## trekkerj

For me it was fine until today. I watched NYPD Blue yesterday--no problems. Today, signal goes in and out.


----------



## Infominister

For the last few days, during the bad weather we've had, I've only been able to get WCBS-DT over-the-air. It's clear today, so I'll have to check reception tonight.


----------



## pjwinstalls

Just did an antenna install...............Fox is coming in solid but CBS barely coming in and breaking up mostly..........ABC coming in good last night............Weird since CBS is strong...........Any ideas anyone?


Channel master 4228


Wineguard ap-4800


3ft tripod with 5ft mast.....


Thanks


----------



## Infominister

That happened to me the first time I put up an antenna at my new house. It was surprising since I had received WCBS-DT strongest at the prior nearby location. Anyway, sometimes it's just a matter of finding a sweet spot on the roof where all stations come in strongly. Wondering why you chose the Winegard amp' rather than the CM 7775 which is mated to the antenna you have?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

CBS-DT OTA is good here. Since last checking now I can't get WABC-DT. Also I am getting frequent drops from WNBC-DT *4.2* Sometimes when 4.2 pops back on there is a station ID that says Digital 4.2. I have never seen this before. Hopefully WABC-DT is off the air. Thanks


fmonkey-


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pjwinstalls_
> *Just did an antenna install...............Fox is coming in solid but CBS barely coming in and breaking up mostly..........ABC coming in good last night............Weird since CBS is strong...........Any ideas anyone?
> 
> 
> Channel master 4228
> 
> 
> Wineguard ap-4800
> 
> 
> 3ft tripod with 5ft mast.....
> 
> 
> Thanks*



CBS is at a higher frequency, so it is a little more directional and susceptable to multipath. Try tweaking the direction a little.


----------



## pyro383

any recommendations for a indoor antenna and pre-amp. Right now I have the RS bowtie and get decent CBS but all others are very weak and I get alot of pixelezations.


----------



## trekkerj

For indoor, that's about the best you can do. Try a channelmaster 7777 preamp, and a long cable that will give you more freedom to position the antenna in different spots.


----------



## cpto

WABC was good last night. But I guess someone forgot to flip a switch because the seemed to show the entire left coast feed in HD, followed by their test tape.


C


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *WABC was good last night. But I guess someone forgot to flip a switch because the seemed to show the entire left coast feed in HD, followed by their test tape.
> 
> 
> C*



WABC-DT seems to do this mostly on Friday nights. They play the national feed of their Friday night programming on west coast time. They start this at 11:00, and use channel 7.2 for the news. They then have the HD test loop on until they go back to regular WABC-DT on 7.1 on Saturday.


Scott


----------



## GoldenBoy

I'm in Woodside, Queens right on the border of Maspeth. From my roof I have a clear shot of the Empire State Building. Can anyone recommend a rooftop antenna/amp combination that would work best for me?


----------



## trekkerj

From there you could get away with just a silver sensor. No need for the hassle of getting an antenna installed. Have you tried one?


----------



## GoldenBoy

No, I have not, but as I already have a rooftop antenna with a cable running to all six televisions in the house, I figured it would be best to just swap it out for an HD antenna. Besides, isn't the Silver Sensor UHF only? I would prefer a VHF/UHF option that would allow me to bring in all the SD channels as well as the OTA HD channels.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *No, I have not, but as I already have a rooftop antenna with a cable running to all six televisions in the house, I figured it would be best to just swap it out for an HD antenna. Besides, isn't the Silver Sensor UHF only? I would prefer a VHF/UHF option that would allow me to bring in all the SD channels as well as the OTA HD channels.*



HD antenna? What's that? Per say, there is no such beast. Any VHF/UHF antenna will work with both analog and digital reception. IS the antenna you currently have in good shape? Is it a VHF/UHF antenna? If so, you may not need another one.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Really? I was under the impression that one needed an HD compatible antenna. Please pardon my ignorance as I'm new to all of this HD A/V stuff. So why do they sell antennas as specifically 'HD compatible' then? My current antenna works fine, besides the fact that it doesn't bring in CBS 2 too well and a couple of the UHF channels are poor also.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Really? I was under the impression that one needed an HD compatible antenna. Please pardon my ignorance as I'm new to all of this HD A/V stuff. So why do they sell antennas as specifically 'HD compatible' then? My current antenna works fine, besides the fact that it doesn't bring in CBS 2 too well and a couple of the UHF channels are poor also.*



Strictly marketing! Perhaps when one markets an "HD antenna", they are merely stating that it is UHF, as most digital channels reside on the UHF band. But the likes of Radio Shack, antennas that have been around well before HD, have worked fine for many on this forum.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Well, I am grateful to you and this forum for you have saved me $$$! I really did not know that. Well, now I'm really pleased that I should be able to pull in the OTA channels without much fuss. OK then, one other question - do you think it would be worth it for me to get a rotary for my antenna?


----------



## GoldenBoy

Just a side-note for those who may be wondering - the reason I have the antenna in the first place is because when we first switched to DirecTV from Time Warner cable 10 years ago the local channels were not available through DirecTV. Who would have known that it would work out for the best in the end? I suppose the lesson here is it's always good to have as much versatility as possible.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Well, I am grateful to you and this forum for you have saved me $$$! I really did not know that. Well, now I'm really pleased that I should be able to pull in the OTA channels without much fuss. OK then, one other question - do you think it would be worth it for me to get a rotary for my antenna?*



Try checking antennaweb.org, if you're in Queens most of your channels should be due west, in which case you won't need a rotary. If you want some of the PBS stations up North or in NJ you probably would need one.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Well, I am grateful to you and this forum for you have saved me $$$! I really did not know that. Well, now I'm really pleased that I should be able to pull in the OTA channels without much fuss. OK then, one other question - do you think it would be worth it for me to get a rotary for my antenna?*



No problem.










You mention that you had the antenna some 10 years ago (if I'm reading between the line right). What kind of cable are you using from the antenna to the TV? You should have RG6 coaxial cable for minimal loss of signal. If you've got the old flat wired stuff, it's best to change it out. You also mention you have the antenna hooked up to 6 TVs. How many will be hooked up in the HD setup? The more you split the signal, the more loss you will have.


----------



## trekkerj

Also, if the antenna hasn't been moved in 10 years, it is probably pointed toward the WTC site. With the NYC OTA's coming from midtown, you will probably do better moving it more northerly. If you are lucky, you can find a sweet spot and get everything in one direction. Since you already have it hooked up, grab a STB and see what you can get!


----------



## GoldenBoy

Well, the cabling is the same coaxial cable that is used for the DirecTV wiring. It will still be 6 televisions hooked up to it now. As far as the direction, I believe when the installers put it up 10 years ago they pointed it toward the ESB, not the WTC. Go figure. And pardon my ignorance once more but, what's a 'STB'?


----------



## Calabs

STB = set top box. In your case the Directv receiver.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Ah, of course. Well, I have a Hughes HTL-HD DirecTV HD receiver and HD dish waiting to be installed, and I am awaiting the arrival of a Samsung DLP which is currently still on backorder. I suppose, just out of curiosity, I could hook up the Hughes box and see which channel I could get in HD OTA, of course they would be down-scaled on my current set.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Ah, of course. Well, I have a Hughes HTL-HD DirecTV HD receiver and HD dish waiting to be installed, and I am awaiting the arrival of a Samsung DLP which is currently still on backorder. I suppose, just out of curiosity, I could hook up the Hughes box and see which channel I could get in HD OTA, of course they would be down-scaled on my current set.*



Ahhhhh...........maybe! What TV do you have now? If it is not a digital TV, you won't pick up the digital stations. The STB may MAP the stations in your area based on zip code, but you won't be able receive them (assuming you don't have a digital TV right now).


----------



## GoldenBoy

I do not have a digital set yet, but the Hughes does HD OTA as well as DirecTV and, AFAIK, it also scales down to 480i via S-Video and Composite Video Out.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *I do not have a digital set yet, but the Hughes does HD OTA as well as DirecTV and, AFAIK, it also scales down to 480i via S-Video and Composite Video Out.*



While what you say is certainly true about the ability of the STB to to pick up 480i via S-Video or composite, you won't be getting the DIGITAL stations..........only the analog versions from either OTA or D*. So there is no "scale-down". 480i in = 480i out. Follow?


----------



## SteveWinNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *While what you say is certainly true about the ability of the STB to to pick up 480i via S-Video or composite, you won't be getting the DIGITAL stations..........only the analog versions from either OTA or D*. So there is no "scale-down". 480i in = 480i out. Follow?*



No, He is getting the digital version station from the Hughes box. The box is capturing the signal is all its glory, 1080i or 720p. but it will be downconverted through the s-video or composite connectors to 480i. The fact that he can't display the HD version on his regular TV set is what he is missing.


BTW, on another note I used my RCA DTC-100 for months without an HDTV set, but it displayed nicely on a CRT monitor.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *No, He is getting the digital version station from the Hughes box. The box is capturing the signal is all its glory, 1080i or 720p. but it will be downconverted through the s-video or composite connectors to 480i. The fact that he can't display the HD version on his regular TV set is what he is missing.
> 
> 
> BTW, on another note I used my RCA DTC-100 for months without an HDTV set, but it displayed nicely on a CRT monitor.*



Hmmmmm...........now THAT'S interesting. I think I may see where MY confusion lies. My HD-SAT520 will either display HD or SD, but not at the same time. I never connected the SD portion of the STB, and when switching for HD to SD, I got sound, but no picture.............never thinking that the picture would be coming through the S or composite video. My bad.....sorry for any confusion!


----------



## SteveWinNJ

Yes, That's why ReplayTv owners love the boxes that do both SD and HD at the same time, like the Samsung TS160. It's a way to record stuff on HDNET, etc in excellent widescreen quality. Although it's only 480p it looks nice!










(This point will be mute personally when my highly anticipated, pre-ordered HD Tivo arrives!







)


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *No, He is getting the digital version station from the Hughes box. The box is capturing the signal is all its glory, 1080i or 720p. but it will be downconverted through the s-video or composite connectors to 480i. The fact that he can't display the HD version on his regular TV set is what he is missing.
> 
> 
> BTW, on another note I used my RCA DTC-100 for months without an HDTV set, but it displayed nicely on a CRT monitor.*



Exactly, but, thankfully, this situation will be rectified in the very near future. Once my back-ordered Samsung dlp ships, (hopefully in the very near future) I'll be able to see the HD in all it's glory!







And I am so happy to know that I don't have to spend any more cash to change my antenna. I had already budgeted out money for my conversion to HD and the purchase of all the new equipment (including 2 new TV's). Now, with the great $99 deal from DirecTV and not having to put out more cash for an antenna - I have a lot more money to play with. Now all I'm waiting on are the HD DirecTV Tivos, my back-ordered Samsung HLN437W, and the Samsung HLP T-Models to be released and I'll be all set.


----------



## SteveWinNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Exactly, but, thankfully, this situation will be rectified in the very near future. Once my back-ordered Samsung dlp ships, (hopefully in the very near future) I'll be able to see the HD in all it's glory!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I am so happy to know that I don't have to spend any more cash to change my antenna. I had already budgeted out money for my conversion to HD and the purchase of all the new equipment (including 2 new TV's). Now, with the great $99 deal from DirecTV and not having to put out more cash for an antenna - I have a lot more money to play with. Now all I'm waiting on are the HD DirecTV Tivos, my back-ordered Samsung HLN437W, and the Samsung HLP T-Models to be released and I'll be all set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yeah..it just keeps getting better for us early adoptors in the NYC area. Good luck with your Sammy DLP, and the $99 box makes up for the initial price of the HD-TiVo.


Now we just need the combiner project completed so we can TiVo our OTA HDTV!


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *Yes, That's why ReplayTv owners love the boxes that do both SD and HD at the same time, like the Samsung TS160. It's a way to record stuff on HDNET, etc in excellent widescreen quality. Although it's only 480p it looks nice!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (This point will be mute personally when my highly anticipated, pre-ordered HD Tivo arrives!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )*



Indeed! Is there any information on when those Hughes HD DirevTV Tivos are supposed to finally be released?


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *Good luck with your Sammy DLP, and the $99 box makes up for the initial price of the HD-TiVo.*



Thanks, and I'm really going to need it if all the reports of sync problems with the Samsung DLP's that are being reported bare out.



> Quote:
> Now we just need the combiner project completed so we can TiVo our OTA HDTV!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/b]



What is the 'combiner project'?


----------



## John Tillman




> Quote:
> What is the 'combiner project'?



Slippery, dirty, politically incorrect, frustrating, disgustingly late and lastly, evil.


Or, on a more optimistic note, a way to replant all digital network broadcasters on the empire state building antenna.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Tillman_
> *Slippery, dirty, politically incorrect, frustrating, disgustingly late and lastly, evil.
> 
> 
> Or, on a more optimistic note, a way to replant all digital network broadcasters on the empire state building antenna.*



Personally, I prefer your first description!


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Tillman_
> *Slippery, dirty, politically incorrect, frustrating, disgustingly late and lastly, evil.
> 
> 
> Or, on a more optimistic note, a way to replant all digital network broadcasters on the empire state building antenna.*



Ok. Thanks for the explanaion. I'm for it - NOW.


----------



## beatles6

Has anyone noticed drop outs on WNBC-DT the last couple of nights. I'm not talking about digital freeze but where there is snow on the screen for a couple of seconds and then the picture comes back.


----------



## DTVDAD

Haven't visited the forum much lately. I didn't see much mentioned about the combiner project at ESB. Is there a seperate thread for it? Last I heard it was going to be March, but obviously things got pussed back. Will I be able to get Mets games from WPIX-DT any time soon? Can't receive their week signal on channel 12. Thank for any insite.


----------



## Infominister

June is the working target.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *June is the working target.*



Boy, that word "target" scares me.


----------



## Ken Ross

This whole "combiner" thing has turned out to be a bad joke.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *This whole "combiner" thing has turned out to be a bad joke.*



Yeah, if I got WPIX-DT I wouldn't even care about it. But I can't get

WPIX-DT at their current low power.


Scott


----------



## lirong

I am in the NY Metro area. Today (Sunday) I am having bad reception problems on the CBS Digital channel - my signal strength is jumping around from Good to Bad quite a bit.


I recently changed from an LG box to a Hughes HTL - I have been told they are identical in their reception ability.


Is tyhis a local reception problem or a problem with the box? Any thoughts?


----------



## lirong

I am in the NY Metro area. Today (Sunday) I am having bad reception problems on the CBS Digital channel - my signal strength is jumping around from Good to Bad quite a bit.


I recently changed from an LG box to a Hughes HTL - I have been told they are identical in their reception ability.


Is tyhis a local reception problem or a problem with the box? Any thoughts?


----------



## ghostman

I don't know about the LG and Hughes boxes, but CBS is coming in clearly for me.


BTW - WCBS-DTV 56 is broadcasting the NCAA games from Kansas City in 1080i and Dolby Digital. Looks and sounds amazing!


----------



## wward

Could be some other problem box, antenna etc... the signal has been excellent I have been watching the game OTA since tip off with no issues.


----------



## sangs

Mine has been dropping in and out also for some reason. It's very windy here, so maybe that's the problem. Usually the CBS signal is rock-solid. I'm watching on the DirecTV feed now thoug and that's had no problems at all (save for an audio drop in the very beginning.) By the way, when are we going to get one these HD games to be competitive? They've been yawners so far.


----------



## fourthstooge

I think some in the NYC area are experiencing OTA reception problems today due to strong winds. It has forced me to switch over to the D* feed.


Sorry sangs . . . you owe me a coke.


----------



## lirong

Got it that probably explains it then. Its clearly a reception issue as I can see the meter jumping around. Winds would explain it then...glad its not an equipment issue!


Thanks everyone.


----------



## Remus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ghostman_
> *I don't know about the LG and Hughes boxes, but CBS is coming in clearly for me.
> 
> 
> BTW - WCBS-DTV 56 is broadcasting the NCAA games from Kansas City in 1080i and Dolby Digital. Looks and sounds amazing!*



Best part about this was that D* and DT-56 were broadcasting different games (at least when I was watching) so I could switch back and forth.


----------



## nez0r

I have a question about ota reception. I usually get about 98% or higher on abc ota, fox comes in at about 90%, but cbs comes in at around 65-70% and nbc comes in at 60% or lower, if at all. Considering antennaweb said the signals are between 144-147 degrees i am wondering why i get such good levels on 2 stations and such low on the others? the line is split once. One goes into my tv and the other goes into my hdtv capture card. The cable that goes into my computer is abuot 25ft long. should i get a signal booster? thanks for your help


----------



## trekkerj

Different stations transmit at different power levels. NBC is very weak at the moment. The other three are much stronger.


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by nez0r_
> *I have a question about ota reception. I usually get about 98% or higher on abc ota, fox comes in at about 90%, but cbs comes in at around 65-70% and nbc comes in at 60% or lower, if at all. Considering antennaweb said the signals are between 144-147 degrees i am wondering why i get such good levels on 2 stations and such low on the others? the line is split once. One goes into my tv and the other goes into my hdtv capture card. The cable that goes into my computer is abuot 25ft long. should i get a signal booster? thanks for your help*



That's funny, because while I get strong signals and no issues (usually) from CBS, ABC and NBC, FOX is a pain in the rear for me. I always have to rotate the antenna about 6-to-10 degrees from the other stations just to pick it up and much of the time it still drops in and out. I'm glad the only thing I need it for is "24" and football.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by lirong_
> *Got it that probably explains it then. Its clearly a reception issue as I can see the meter jumping around. Winds would explain it then...glad its not an equipment issue!
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone.*



waiting for my HD Tivo and reading all i can.


Why does wind have anything to do with signal strength? Is it because people's antenna's arent firmly mounted and they move around? Or is there some way that wind can effect a signal- i'm no physicist but i didnt think that was possible?


----------



## sting0r

Anyone have the lastest word on the combiner? Is it really being built?


----------



## Infominister

It is being built, but it's not ready yet. Possibly June.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> 
> Why does wind have anything to do with signal strength?



CBS-station engineer Lee Wood had a good explanation 1-2 years back if you want to search the archive. Believe it's mostly swaying branches/leaves influencing the UHF/VHF signals. -- John


----------



## michaelk

wow- interesting

thanks


----------



## Ken Ross

Is anyone having problems with WABC HD tonight?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Is anyone having problems with WABC HD tonight?*



A friend IM'd me at 10:37 to ask the same thing; I didn't see it till 10:50, but when I checked then I had no signal from WABC.


ABC out of Boston was fine; so whatever the issue was it must've been local.


----------



## Ken Ross

Thanks Doug. I do get a signal, but it's jumping all over the place and never locks into a picture.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Thanks Doug. I do get a signal, but it's jumping all over the place and never locks into a picture.*



Well, my Zenith HD-SAT520 doesn't really show any sort of signal strength if there's not enough there for it to be decoding something, so "No signal" is all it managed to say.


----------



## Infominister

I've had bad reception for the past week, even on WCBS-DT.


----------



## nchronis

Had the same problem last night with WABC (7.1) here in Flushing, NY. My Sony HD300 signal meter was bouncing all over the place and couldn't lock in. Was up till 2AM fiddling with connections around the house thinking it was that. Actually it had done it yesterday late afternoon also.


----------



## dm145

Before I start moving my Silver Sensor, I check this thread.


----------



## John Tuohy

Will WPIX broadcast Met home games in HD this season ?


Thanks in advance !


----------



## cpto

Ken, I had one brief dropout (

Funny, I was just wondering if they'd boosted their signal.


Rick


----------



## Mr. Soze

I'm seeing NBC 4-2 tonight for the first time.

Has the normal local news program on right now. about 9:17 pm


----------



## jcondon

Westchester, NY Antenna Recommendation

I am looking for some recommendations for an OTA Antenna.


I am in Thornwood, NY about 30 miles North of the Empire State Building.



I would perfer an antenna I could install in my attic. My house is a two story house with a plywood roof and one layer of shingles.



The Silver Sensor looks interesting but, I have a feeling I might be just a bit too far for that antenna to pull in channels from NYC.


The Square Shooter would also be an option and that I could even mount outside on the satellite dish mast.


Or I could go with something larger in the attic. Something like a Channel Master 3010?


Do I need a preamp?



Thanks,

Jim


----------



## dturturro

jcon, I'm about 25 miles east of the ESB and I get all 6 networks a pbs and a spanish station with an RCA-3036 roof mounted antenna and a cm preamp. WB drops out a lot for me. Hopefully the combiner project will clear that up. The rest are pretty consistent (NBC blows once in a while).


On another subject I was wondering if anyone knew why WB multicasts 4 channels (11-1, 11-2, 12-1 & 75-1) all with the same programming? I could see if they had different programs, but all the same show? Would there weak signal be any more consistent if they just sent out 1 channel?


----------



## GoldenBoy

I just hooked up my Hughes HTL-HD this past Friday and I have been picking up all of the CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, UPN, WB, and WNET digital broadcasts, but I cannot get WNYC, WLIW, WNJN or WXTV (41). This morning, however, I notice that I cannot get the WNET broadcasts in. It is showing 'No Signal'. I am positive, however, that I was getting them before because on Saturday or Sunday night I was watching Nature in HD and WNETD is the only PBS station that I have ever picked up in D.


I'm in Maspeth (Queens) and my Antenna is pointed toward the ESB.


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if anyone else has noticed a decrease in SS from 4-1 (Digital 28)??? I have two separate CM4228's with pre-amps hooked up for my 3 HD STB's......and on all 3 TV's I've noticed that 28's signal has decreased markedly. The last time I had checked the signal strength on WNBC-DT (2 weeks or so ago) I had a reading of 93 on my E86's....yet last night I noticed one STB was reading a 44 and a 2nd one (hooked up to a different CM4228) had a reading of 65. All the other NYC locals were pegged at 100. Wonder if it has anything to do with leaves coming in on the trees???


I only say that because IIRC WNBC-DT went live in the late fall....when foilage would have been decreased (if not totally gone).


Anyone else (more importantly those who HAD a solid lock on 28-1) see a decrease in Signal Strength/Quality lately???


I have 2 rotors.....but didn't have a chance to futz with them last night or this AM......and figured it strange that all the other locals were solid...and just 28-1 was down. I thought maybe the wind could've moved the antenna's a bit.....but, again, it was on the signal off of EACH antenna.


----------



## GoldenBoy

I wonder if an amp would work for me? The only problem is, I have 6 sets hooked up to my antenna and, I'm not sure, but I think there may be splitters involved. It was installed professionally 10 years ago, so my recollection of how it was done is faded.


----------



## Infominister

I've also got the LG LSS 3200A with a CM 4228 antenna, and no two days are the same when it comes to signal strength and locking in one or more stations. It's literally a day-in, day-out situation due to the fact that most of the stations are on temporary transmitters and whatever atmospheric conditions may be occuring at the time. I turn on the TV and it's just pot luck whether I'm going to get a solid signal on one, some or all stations. When it's good, it's good; when it's not it's not. Hopefully, it will all be more reliable when the combiner project is finished.


----------



## kcn823

I've noticed the signal strength on 4-1 lower in the last week on my MYHD card, but still pretty strong on my STB. Maybe NBC is doing something.


----------



## HDTVplus

Hi everyone,


I live in New Jersey with a clear view of the Empire State Building, about 5 miles away, I'm using a Silver Sensor to pull in my programming and am pleased with what shows up on my set. I get 2-1, 4-1, 4-2, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1,

7-2, 11-1, 11-2, 12-1, 21-1, 21-2 and 75-1 all without moving the antenna at all.


Are there any other stations I should be getting that I am not?


Wasn't fox(5-1) supposed to be HD capable by now...I never see anything but SD material on there?


A few questions about WPIX (11-1,11-2, 12-1, 75-1)...


-Why do they have all these stations?


-I mean am I seeing this incorrectly or do they have more broadcasting channels than abc, nbc and cbs combined?


-Also, it seems that they(11-1 etc.) are cropping the 4:3 source material to fill the widescreen format in kind of a reverse pan and scan scheme.....whereby from time to time Felix and Oscar's heads are cut off on Odd Couple reruns then upconverted....are they doing this and will they continue doing this for everything they broadcast?


Last month I remember watching The Tonight Show in widescreen and it looked awesome....the last couple times I watched it it had those gray bars, or whatever one should call them, but the info button always lists it as HD which is not the case unless it's widescreen right?


Finally, Conan O'brien I've been getting in that quasi widescreen mode where there are no bars bordering the image yet the image does not fill the screen width.....whatever the hell one calls that? Yet that particular show looks very much to my eye to be HD quality even though my understanding is that if it's not filling the width it's not HD?....even though the info button states HD content, which I suppose is just a matter of whether it's upconverted or native content?


----------



## jezebel

Apparently, WLIW-DT has ceased transmitting the PBS HD Channel (21.1). The only other area station broadcasting this channel is WNET-DT, which most of us cannot receive! This is a major tragedy and loss for area folks who came to love it's wonderful programming and stunning PQ. Makes you wonder, what were they thinking!


I received WLIW-DT's PBS HD Channel with no trouble in Lower Westchester using a rooftop antenna. So did many other folks who came to feel it had the best programming of all area OTA channels. This is not progress towards bringing quality DTV to the area. It is a tremendous step backward! We will seriously miss this channel.


Maybe if everyone affected would let WLIW know that this is a tremendous mistake, perhaps we might have a chance to reverse the decision. Please call WLIW at 516-367-2100 to let them know how you feel, or visit their website wliw.org to send an email or fill out a viewer comments message.


Thanks for listening.


----------



## charlieg

WLIW-DT is now showing up as channel 22.1 on antenna web but I'm not finding anything there right now.


----------



## sangs

Has anyone else been having issues with FOX and WPIX? I used to pull these in easily - especially WPIX - and now for the last week or so, no matter where I rotate the rooftop antenna (it's connected through an amp), I can't get the signals to stay solid. FOX is a stuttering mess and I haven't seen a picture on WPIX in a few days. I'm having no problem with the other channels, just these two. Anything up? Thanks.


----------



## trekkerj

Have you tried getting NJN on ch 50?


----------



## mortega31686

Is anyone not getting The George Lopez on HDTV? Its just showing black for me and is only showing the commercials on screen.


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Have you tried getting NJN on ch 50?*



Yes, that's actually been coming in gangbusters lately. I used to have to move the rotor quite a bit to get it, but in the last week or so, no movement and all the digital channels come in great.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sangs_
> *Yes, that's actually been coming in gangbusters lately. I used to have to move the rotor quite a bit to get it, but in the last week or so, no movement and all the digital channels come in great.*



All I get is the demo loop from 50-5. They stopped showing actual programming several weeks ago.


----------



## slocko

Do you guys think the square shooter can help me get this channel from Central New Jersey? I know the specs say over 50 miles, but I wonder if anyone here is doing more than 50. I have read this thread, but it was a while ago and I don't remember if anyone mentioned the distance they are able to pull in.


If not, can anyone recommed a good antenna guy to set me up with the right antenna. What one must do to watch Enterprise in HD!!!!


Thxs.


from antennaweb:


C.O. - Compass Orientation

M.F. - Miles From

F.A. - Frequency Assignment

**************************CO MF FA

WPSG 57 UPN PHILADELPHIA PA 257° 56.9 57


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDTVplus_
> *Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't fox(5-1) supposed to be HD capable by now...I never see anything but SD material on there?
> 
> 
> A few questions about WPIX (11-1,11-2, 12-1, 75-1)...
> 
> 
> -Why do they have all these stations?
> 
> 
> -I mean am I seeing this incorrectly or do they have more broadcasting channels than abc, nbc and cbs combined?
> 
> 
> -*



1) No FOX is not broadcasting HD at this time FOX is slated to start broadcasting in 720p sometime in September of 2004.


2) Not sure about the reasoning behind WPIX's multicasting scheme however channel 12 is the actual VHF assignment WPIX-DT is broadcasting from. 11-1 and 11-2 are the re-maps of VHF channel 12.


75-1 is the national WB network digital feed. The logic being that no matter where ever you go through out the country if you tune to channel 75-1 you will be able to watch WB network digital programming.


3&4) Multicasting (while not the best thing in the world for picture quality) is being done by a number of stations for various reasons. From what I have seen most (but not all) broadcast a SD version of their programming and an HD version (when available) of their programming.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Do you guys think the square shooter can help me get this channel from Central New Jersey? I know the specs say over 50 miles, but I wonder if anyone here is doing more than 50. I have read this thread, but it was a while ago and I don't remember if anyone mentioned the distance they are able to pull in.
> 
> 
> If not, can anyone recommed a good antenna guy to set me up with the right antenna. What one must do to watch Enterprise in HD!!!!
> 
> 
> Thxs.
> 
> 
> from antennaweb:
> 
> 
> C.O. - Compass Orientation
> 
> M.F. - Miles From
> 
> F.A. - Frequency Assignment
> 
> **************************CO MF FA
> 
> WPSG 57 UPN PHILADELPHIA PA 257° 56.9 57*



Honestly it is very difficult to say if the Square shooter or any antenna for that matter will work for you. Reason being there are so many variables involved (terrain, elevation, distance from the transmitter etc...)


If someone in your area is using it; that can give you an idea of what to expect but that's about it. For example I am in Freehold south of you and I am using the Zenith Silver Sensor indoors and I can pick up WPSG. I would recommend using a cheaper alternative first to get a feel for what you can receive in your location and work from there.


Just a suggestion.


----------



## slocko

Thanks for the response. Since you are in freehold you might be closer to WSPG than me since you are more south than me. But it gives me hope.


The distance is 57 miles according to antennaweb.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Thanks for the response. Since you are in freehold you might be closer to WSPG than me since you are more south than me. But it gives me hope.
> 
> 
> The distance is 57 miles according to antennaweb.*



You can try asking this question on the Central NJ thread on the local forum. I'm in Monroe and I have two different CM 4228's at different heights and 57-1 out of Philly was NEVER a problem on either one. It boomed as did 26-1 (KYW CBS) out of Philly on both antennas----before I put up a pre-amp as well.


----------



## John Mason

Has anyone discovered whether WCBS-DT will be carrying Masters golf Thur/Fri afternoons? While CBS HD national is providing this weekday HD coverage, only certain HD stations are departing from their analog-station's schedule. Seems a shame if the network's flagship station doesn't provide weekday coverage while other cities do. Thanks. -- John


----------



## Remus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sangs_
> *Has anyone else been having issues with FOX and WPIX? I used to pull these in easily - especially WPIX - and now for the last week or so, no matter where I rotate the rooftop antenna (it's connected through an amp), I can't get the signals to stay solid. FOX is a stuttering mess and I haven't seen a picture on WPIX in a few days. I'm having no problem with the other channels, just these two. Anything up? Thanks.*



I have noticed troubles particularly with WPIX 11-1 (and/or 11-2, 11-3, etc.) over the last 4 or 5 days. Not sure if it's just the high winds or what, but holding a picture has been a chore. Also noticed that D* Sat. B was having trouble yesterday afternoon holding a picture while trying to watch Metrostars/Columbus soccer in HD, so maybe there's a relationship.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Remus_
> *I have noticed troubles particularly with WPIX 11-1 (and/or 11-2, 11-3, etc.) over the last 4 or 5 days. Not sure if it's just the high winds or what, but holding a picture has been a chore. Also noticed that D* Sat. B was having trouble yesterday afternoon holding a picture while trying to watch Metrostars/Columbus soccer in HD, so maybe there's a relationship.*



There appears to be a couple of different issues with SAT "B" (119) that have been going on for a while. Hop over to the HDTV Hardware forum there are a couple of current threads on the situation.


This one is currently going in the HDTV Programming forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=387412


----------



## Trip in VA

Hello again!


As I did at Thanksgiving, I will be returning to Fair Lawn, NJ for Easter. Has anything changed digital-wise since then?


Looking at the FCC database:


WCBS is the same.

WNBC is still broadcasting their pathetic 10.5 kW signal.

WNYW is the same

WABC is the same.

WWOR has a 170 kW STA. Are they doing HDTV yet?

WPIX is the same

WNET is still broadcasting their pathetic 2.66 kW signal.

WNYE... are they back on the air yet?

WPXN still has a 100 kW STA... are they on the air yet?

WXTV is the same

WNJU... anything there yet?

WNJN said something about 200 kW a few months back... has this materialized?

WTBY... they still have a .5 kW STA listed. Weren't they supposed to go full-power?

WRNN is the same

WMBC is the same

WFME... have they increased from their 2 kW yet?

WFUT has a 150 kW STA, is that on the air yet?


Thanks!


- Trip


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *Hello again!
> 
> 
> As I did at Thanksgiving, I will be returning to Fair Lawn, NJ for Easter. Has anything changed digital-wise since then?
> 
> 
> Looking at the FCC database:
> 
> 
> WCBS is the same.
> 
> WNBC is still broadcasting their pathetic 10.5 kW signal.
> 
> WNYW is the same
> 
> WABC is the same.
> 
> WWOR has a 170 kW STA. Are they doing HDTV yet?
> 
> WPIX is the same
> 
> WNET is still broadcasting their pathetic 2.66 kW signal.
> 
> WNYE... are they back on the air yet?
> 
> WPXN still has a 100 kW STA... are they on the air yet?
> 
> WXTV is the same
> 
> WNJU... anything there yet?
> 
> WNJN said something about 200 kW a few months back... has this materialized?
> 
> WTBY... they still have a .5 kW STA listed. Weren't they supposed to go full-power?
> 
> WRNN is the same
> 
> WMBC is the same
> 
> WFME... have they increased from their 2 kW yet?
> 
> WFUT has a 150 kW STA, is that on the air yet?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> - Trip*



WWOR-DT is not doing HDTV.

WPXN-DT dont think its on the air.

WNJN-DT has upped the juice.


----------



## DumbLuck

Just an FYI on WLIW no longer broadcasting:


"Dear Viewer:


This is a temporary situation while new programs and equipment are being worked on.


Thank you for your interest.


Sincerely,


WLIW21

Viewer Relations"


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *Looking at the FCC database:
> 
> *



Just out of curiosity, what FCC database do you go to?


----------



## jezebel




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DumbLuck_
> *Just an FYI on WLIW no longer broadcasting:
> 
> 
> "Dear Viewer:
> 
> 
> This is a temporary situation while new programs and equipment are being worked on.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your interest.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> WLIW21
> 
> Viewer Relations"*



DumbLuck-


If it is true that WLIW-DT has stopped broadcasting PBS HD Channel only temporarily, then that is very good news. But I spoke with them late last week, and at that time it seemed like a permanent decision. That's why my original post sounded so dire. No mention of programming or equipment issues.


The part about "new programs" doesn't make any sense, since the PBS HD Channel is a national PBS feed. It doesn't originate at WLIW. It already exists with complete programming, "fully packaged 24/7 channel" according to the PBS press release. Even before it debuted in early March, WLIW-DT was showing the HD loop every day (although I never checked it in the middle of the night).


If the interruption is for new equipment installation, then I suppose that might be a good thing. But, again, that was never mentioned to me.


I'll see if they respond to my feedback message the same as they did to yours. I'll also phone them before week's end to see if I can get more info.


In the meantime, WLIW must bring it back. Or WNET-DT needs to transmit so that folks can actually receive the signal. In other words, the NYC metro area needs the PBS HD Channel OTA!! I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


Jezebel


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Just out of curiosity, what FCC database do you go to?*



Try this link:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html 

GT


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jezebel_
> *DumbLuck-
> 
> 
> If it is true that WLIW-DT has stopped broadcasting PBS HD Channel only temporarily, then that is very good news. But I spoke with them late last week, and at that time it seemed like a permanent decision. That's why my original post sounded so dire. No mention of programming or equipment issues.
> 
> 
> The part about "new programs" doesn't make any sense, since the PBS HD Channel is a national PBS feed. It doesn't originate at WLIW. It already exists with complete programming, "fully packaged 24/7 channel" according to the PBS press release. Even before it debuted in early March, WLIW-DT was showing the HD loop every day (although I never checked it in the middle of the night).
> 
> 
> If the interruption is for new equipment installation, then I suppose that might be a good thing. But, again, that was never mentioned to me.
> 
> 
> I'll see if they respond to my feedback message the same as they did to yours. I'll also phone them before week's end to see if I can get more info.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, WLIW must bring it back. Or WNET-DT needs to transmit so that folks can actually receive the signal. In other words, the NYC metro area needs the PBS HD Channel OTA!! I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
> 
> 
> Jezebel*



I think NJN may have made the same decision as well, I checked 52-5 the other night and it was dark all night.


----------



## jezebel

wward -

I tried to get WNJN-DT for the first time last weekend. Was able to receive it by turning my antenna on its rotator toward Jersey. There was programming on the first four subchannels, but number five, which is the HD Channel, was dark.


So there it is ---- no PBS HD Channel OTA in the NY metro area. The PBS press release dated 2/25/04 states "the PBS HD Channel will be available from local PBS stations that have transitioned to digital broadcasting . . ." and then goes on to boast that "there are currently 236 local PBS stations on the air with digital signals, reaching more than 85 percent of U.S. TV households."


But if you live in the NY metro area and want to receive it, you're out of luck. Wish I knew what was up.


jezebel


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Try this link:
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html
> 
> GT*



That's the database I use.


Thanks for the help. So WWOR-DT is on the air now? Last time I brought my tuner up to NJ it was on 5-2 rather than 9-1. Glad to hear that's finally fixed.


Hey, is WNYW-DT doing 720p yet, or are they still in 480p?


Also, what about WFUT-DT? Have they put that more powerful STA up yet?


And lastly, what is taking PAX so long? They were granted that STA at least 6 months ago. Not that PAX has anything good on, I just like seeing digital stations.


- Trip


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *So WWOR-DT is on the air now? Last time I brought my tuner up to NJ it was on 5-2 rather than 9-1. Glad to hear that's finally fixed.
> *



WWOR-DT, channel 38, is not on the air.


----------



## KJ_HD

Tonight around 9 pm 4/7/04 wnjn was brodcasting a HD program on 50-5 , some new jersey four seasons promo , a real showcase program.


----------



## Infominister

They've been doing that for months, at least.


----------



## bjohn

Anyone know of a good (cheap) OTA antenna installer in Floral Park, NY?


----------



## vinnyv07

Is it possible to get an update on the combiner thats supposed to up in June? Any word on if its on schedule or if its not. I really would love if this thing got off the ground. As it is right now ...I cant get NBC or WPIX at all. Anyone live in the Great Kills area in Staten Island have any success with OTA?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Is it possible to get an update on the combiner thats supposed to up in June? Any word on if its on schedule or if its not. I really would love if this thing got off the ground. As it is right now ...I cant get NBC or WPIX at all. Anyone live in the Great Kills area in Staten Island have any success with OTA?*



My parents are in Huguenot using a rooftop RS Yagi (the $19.99 one) that I installed 2 stories up (without a pre-amp). STB is an OTA Samsung T151(???)--they can pick up digital 2,4,5 (and 9), 7, 50 (or 52?) out of NJ and I think 53 (Spanish??) but NOT 11 or 13.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KJ_HD_
> *Tonight around 9 pm 4/7/04 wnjn was brodcasting a HD program on 50-5 , some new jersey four seasons promo , a real showcase program.*



No HD ON 52-5.


----------



## trekkerj

50-5 is only on at night.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *50-5 is only on at night.*



Thanks I realize that; its the same thing with 52-5 its also only availible in the evening. I was just commenting that 52-5 was dark again last night.


----------



## trekkerj

What's 52-5?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *What's 52-5?*



Channel 43-1,2,3,4,5 WNJT-DT maps to channel 52-1,2,3,4,5


52-5 is their HD channel


----------



## vinnyv07

Hey jaypb!! My house is a single family low ranch. I tried that Ant at the highest point of my house with no luck....I have alot of trees blocking my way...but Im trying not to give up. Anyone else live near great kills in Staten Island?


----------



## DvST8




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Hey jaypb!! My house is a single family low ranch. I tried that Ant at the highest point of my house with no luck....I have a lot of trees blocking my way...but I'm trying not to give up. Anyone else live near great kills in Staten Island?*




I've tried to get NBC and WB a few different ways too Vinny. I have a clear view of the VZ Bridge no tress at all and still can't get ether one of them high enough to watch. I've tried pre-amp, real amps, moving the ant, other ants, nothing works for me.

Let me know if you get ether one of these high enough to watch and how you did it.



Heres my stats (from the last time I tweaked the ant.)


Staten Island, NY.

New Dorp


CBS 2-1 (56-1) 100%

FOX 5-1 (44-1) 100%

UPN 5-2 (44-2) 100%

PBS 13-x (61-x) 55%

PIX 11-1 (12-1) 20%

ABC 7-1 (45-1) 100%

NBC 4-1 (28-1) 06%

NET 50-x (50-x) 55%

FUT 68-1 (53-1) 55%



Rcvr- LST-3510A & DST-3000

Ant- RS 15-2152

Tv- Samsung HLN617w


----------



## KenA

Anyone else notice that NBC-DT is broadcasting with the Pro Logic flag on? Very nice. I'd prefer 5.1, but this beats having to switch to PL manually every time I change channels.


----------



## slocko

I thought if your a/v receiver was set to pro logic for a particular input, it would make everything pro-logic?????


Why would a flag make a difference?


----------



## KenA

My revceiver has an auto-digital option, which I need to select or some digital channels don't decode at all. If I select PL and change the channel (or audio drops out), the receiver resets itself to whatever that channel is broadcasting. I've seen this on a couple of receivers, so its not all that uncommon.


----------



## zielin

i'm a mile or two or 3 from ESB.. i get 100% on cbs and fox. NBC is like 48% and some spanish crap stations comes in @ about 65%


where is ABC? i'm using a silver sensor.


i'm in dumbo, brooklyn - clear shot of manhattan skyline.


The results are the same on my old sony HD100 and my Hipix.


----------



## neo0285

does anybody when WPIX is going to increase their power? I live in rosedale, queens, about 17 miles away from ESB. With the stealth antenna i get about:

CBS-90

nbc-75

fox-80

abc-95

wpix-10-15 can't tune in a signal


----------



## trekkerj

When the combiner is completed, hopefully June.


----------



## Ken Ross

We should all know by now to laugh at any combiner 'completion dates'. I've lost count of how many have come and gone by now. I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## trekkerj

I said June...I didn't say what year.


----------



## feloniousmonkey

hahaha, that's a trick Q. But if it is being built that is more hope then not. Brooklyn depending on your location isn't so bad. I get all local DT ch including WPIX & WNBC,ABC CBS FOX & WNJN and all it's subs w/a crappy dual band on a 2 story w/little obstruction. peace


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I said June...I didn't say what year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jezebel_
> *wward -
> 
> I tried to get WNJN-DT for the first time last weekend. Was able to receive it by turning my antenna on its rotator toward Jersey. There was programming on the first four subchannels, but number five, which is the HD Channel, was dark.
> 
> 
> So there it is ---- no PBS HD Channel OTA in the NY metro area. The PBS press release dated 2/25/04 states "the PBS HD Channel will be available from local PBS stations that have transitioned to digital broadcasting . . ." and then goes on to boast that "there are currently 236 local PBS stations on the air with digital signals, reaching more than 85 percent of U.S. TV households."
> 
> 
> But if you live in the NY metro area and want to receive it, you're out of luck. Wish I knew what was up.
> 
> 
> jezebel*



Is WLIW-DT still dark? looks like NJN is back I saw the demo loop on WNJT-DT 52-5 Saturday night.


----------



## jaypb

Just curious when WABC-DT starting pushing through PSIP info for 7-2. I just noticed it yesterday AM whilst tooling around. I'm using a D* Hughes E86....so I guess the guide info came from D*?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

WW, I also saw it up w/the loop. I was very glad to see it also. Maybe the rumors are not true. I kind of missed the loop


f



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Is WLIW-DT still dark? looks like NJN is back I saw the demo loop on WNJT-DT 52-5 Saturday night.*


----------



## slocko

Hi Ken,


I am not questioning what you are saying, i just thought all receivers behaved like mine. Sorry.


On my a/v receiver, it automatically switches to 5.1 when ever it detects 5.1 and performs dolby prolic ii on everything else.





> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *My revceiver has an auto-digital option, which I need to select or some digital channels don't decode at all. If I select PL and change the channel (or audio drops out), the receiver resets itself to whatever that channel is broadcasting. I've seen this on a couple of receivers, so its not all that uncommon.*


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Just curious when WABC-DT starting pushing through PSIP info for 7-2. I just noticed it yesterday AM whilst tooling around. I'm using a D* Hughes E86....so I guess the guide info came from D*?*



The guide data (what little there is) comes from the station. The only thing I see listed is DTV Program with ratings time and date.


----------



## GoldenBoy

What stations exactly are supposed to be broadcast via this 'combiner' project? And, is WNET-DT actually broadcasting or not? My antenna is on the roof, pointed right at the ESB, clear line of site only about 3 miles away in Maspeth, Queens and I don't pick up any PBS digital broadcasts (WNET, WLIW, WNJN, WNYE, etc.). Should that be?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

GB, I could be wrong but from what I read all metro area broadcasters will be using the "Combiner" with a few having a back up in different location. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Right now I am getting all 5 WNJN's. The only thing I can think of is try tweeking your antenny







If that doesn't work maybe WNJN's transmission are being sent from the opposite direction of where you are. Good luck!


f



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *What stations exactly are supposed to be broadcast via this 'combiner' project? And, is WNET-DT actually broadcasting or not? My antenna is on the roof, pointed right at the ESB, clear line of site only about 3 miles away in Maspeth, Queens and I don't pick up any PBS digital broadcasts (WNET, WLIW, WNJN, WNYE, etc.). Should that be?*


----------



## GoldenBoy

Thanks.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *What stations exactly are supposed to be broadcast via this 'combiner' project? And, is WNET-DT actually broadcasting or not? My antenna is on the roof, pointed right at the ESB, clear line of site only about 3 miles away in Maspeth, Queens and I don't pick up any PBS digital broadcasts (WNET, WLIW, WNJN, WNYE, etc.). Should that be?*



WNJN-DT and WNET-DT do not broadcast from Empire State. NJN Broadcast it's programming from New Jersey, WNET-DT broadcast from their studios in mid-town at low directional power.


----------



## bjohn

Anyone know if anything special has to be one on a DISH 811 receiver to show the OTA program guide?


I used to get the OTA program guide from WCBS and some other station when I used a Motorolla STB. The Dish 811 just says local digital.


Thanks


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *The guide data (what little there is) comes from the station. The only thing I see listed is DTV Program with ratings time and date.*



Hmmmm......I was under the assumption that any D* HD receivers received their guide data/PSIP from a database that (ZAPTOIT???) D* downloads to your STB. For example my parents have a Samsung OTA T-151 and IIRC it gets NO PSIP data for the NYC locals (or NJN stations) ?!?!


I was going to rotate back towards Philly to see if any of the Philly ABC subchannels showed any guide data (6-2/6-3) as opposed to the "regular programming" mantra that was pretty standard 6 months ago when I regularly faced Philly.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *What stations exactly are supposed to be broadcast via this 'combiner' project?*



WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WABC-DT, WWOR-DT, WPIX-DT, WNET-DT.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Hmmmm......I was under the assumption that any D* HD receivers received their guide data/PSIP from a database that (ZAPTOIT???) D* downloads to your STB. For example my parents have a Samsung OTA T-151 and IIRC it gets NO PSIP data for the NYC locals (or NJN stations) ?!?!
> 
> 
> I was going to rotate back towards Philly to see if any of the Philly ABC subchannels showed any guide data (6-2/6-3) as opposed to the "regular programming" mantra that was pretty standard 6 months ago when I regularly faced Philly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Not sure how the other STB's work but the guide info for my box (F38310)r comes from the stations.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Not sure how the other STB's work but the guide info for my box (F38310)r comes from the stations.*



That's the RCA STB buit into the TV correct?


Is it a D* receiver as well?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *That's the RCA STB buit into the TV correct?
> 
> 
> Is it a D* receiver as well?*



Yes thats correct and it is a DirecTv receiver.


----------



## seldenpat

Anyone else experience some Tropo last night? I was doing a channel scan around 12:30 last night and I had NJN lock in crystal clear for the first time.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Yes thats correct and it is a DirecTv receiver.*



I noticed that 4-2 still shows "Regular Programming" on my E86. Will be interesting to see if the guide info pops up there as well.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *Anyone else experience some Tropo last night? I was doing a channel scan around 12:30 last night and I had NJN lock in crystal clear for the first time.*



Saw a bump up on the NY locals starting around 7pm last night. I didnt pick up anyting new what clued me in was WABC-DT was rock steady all evening. I usually experience drop outs once in while due to the low power output.


----------



## Infominister

What's tropo?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *What's tropo?*


 http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html


----------



## Infominister

Interesting. Thanks. All I know is that my ability to lock in WABC-DT and, to a lesser extent, WNYW-DT, has been wildly erratic. It's literally day in and day out. Can anyone tell from this map whether reception during the spring months is going to be any more reliable? The best reception I've had since WABC-DT went back up was during those really clear, frigid days in January.


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WABC-DT, WWOR-DT, WPIX-DT, WNET-DT.*



I'm glad you knew the signers of the pact. The "Combiner" is not a panacea and has a limited useful rated power load as does the antenna panels. Coverage should be 85% of WTC. Let us hope everything goes as planned.

GT


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Interesting. Thanks. All I know is that my ability to lock in WABC-DT and, to a lesser extent, WNYW-DT, has been wildly erratic. It's literally day in and day out. Can anyone tell from this map whether reception during the spring months is going to be any more reliable? The best reception I've had since WABC-DT went back up was during those really clear, frigid days in January.*



Keeping in mind atmospheric conditions are hard to predict from one day to the next the spring and fall months generally have some of the best tropo effects


----------



## bjohn

who do you email to get WLIW HD back?

I emailed [email protected]

never got a reply.


----------



## jezebel




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *who do you email to get WLIW HD back?
> 
> I emailed [email protected]
> 
> never got a reply.*



Is that a typo? The WLIW website (wliw.org) says the email address is [email protected] . You can go to wliw.org and click on "contact 21."


I did a feedback message (the bottom part of that page) on April 3 and received no reply. Called again last week and received no reply.


It's unbelievable that just as the PBS HD Channel on WLIW was in full swing, they just delete that channel with no warning. It might be different if WNET-DT were an option, but no one I know can receive it. And WNJN apparently has very limited PBS HD programming (other than the loop) and is difficult or impossible for many New Yorkers to receive OTA.


You would never know that this area is the number one market in the country!


I'm going to send another message to WLIW. Please, everyone who is concerned, please let them know how you feel (again and again). Their phone: 516-367-2100, their fax 516-692-7629.


Thanks,

jezebel


----------



## bjohn

No, it's not a typo actually. I just didn't bother to type the whole email address on the forum. But I Did email the right people. Like you, I send it to viewers_choice and I also used the feedback form. No response.


Maybe I'll give a call.


----------



## WalterK

I noticed this week that Channel 53.1 WFUT is now full scale here on Staten Island!! I checked it a few times so it is not conditions, apparently they upgraded the signal, it is now as strong as Channel 2.1!! Also looking at the plan for the combiner project, if Channel 9, 38.1 is going on the combiner on the CBS antenna,why didnt Fox put it on their antenna with 44.1 at the same location??,they could have done it 2 years ago instead of the 5.1. and 5.2 stupidity???Both channels are owned by the same company!!!


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if anyone else noticed a loss in guide info for 4-1 starting at about 9:30 last night? Was still missing this AM....on ALL 4 of my D* E86 receivers that I use for OTA reception.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Just curious if anyone else noticed a loss in guide info for 4-1 starting at about 9:30 last night? Was still missing this AM....on ALL 4 of my D* E86 receivers that I use for OTA reception.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yes, I noticed that last ngiht as well (standard "Regular Programming" lingo). Didn't get a chance to check this morning though!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by WalterK_
> *I noticed this week that Channel 53.1 WFUT is now full scale here on Staten Island!! I checked it a few times so it is not conditions, apparently they upgraded the signal, it is now as strong as Channel 2.1!! Also looking at the plan for the combiner project, if Channel 9, 38.1 is going on the combiner on the CBS antenna,why didnt Fox put it on their antenna with 44.1 at the same location??,they could have done it 2 years ago instead of the 5.1. and 5.2 stupidity???Both channels are owned by the same company!!!*



WFUT has an STA for about 150 kW (a bit less than half of WCBS-DT's power) from the Times Square thing. Now if only WWOR-DT would bring on their 170 kW STA...


- Trip


----------



## charlieg

Just got the following email from WLIW concerning their HD programming:


Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding WLIW's digital

service. WLIW Create launched April 1 as the first step in an exciting

evolution of digital content for New York public television viewers.

WLIW Create, broadcasting from Plainview, Long Island, is available

over-the-air on channel DT 22-3 to viewers with digital receivers

throughout the region. WLIWDT 21-1 is no longer broadcasting the PBS

HDTV schedule but viewers can still find that programming on Thirteen

HD* (see listings below). WLIW21's analog schedule will continue to air

on the digital 22-2 channel.


WLIW Create takes advantage of the new digital spectrum assigned

to both WLIW21 and our sister station, Thirteen/WNET, to offer new

viewing options for our community - presenting alternative air times for

popular programs and allowing us to go into our program libraries to

present content that doesn't currently air on channels 21 and 13.


WLIW Create invites viewers to take a hands-on approach to life

through a "do-it-yourself" library of series and specials on cooking,

renovating, collecting, painting, crafts, traveling, gardening, and

more. With this new service, and the others that will follow in the

coming months, public television enters a new era in which we have more

opportunities than ever before to give our viewers innovative ways to

focus in on the kinds of programming that addresses their interests and

perspectives.


The WLIW Create 24-hour digital service features such public

television favorites as This Old House, New Yankee Workshop, Jacques

Pepin Celebrates!, Lidia's Italian-American Kitchen, Martin Yan's

Chinatowns, Globe Trekker, Travels in Europe With Rick Steves, Passport

to Adventure The Best of Simply Painting, One Stroke Painting With Donna

Dewberry, and Antiques Roadshow - just to name a few. For your

convenience, the program schedule is broadcast after every show.


*Thirteen HD is available over the air (limited mostly to access

in New Jersey) and on:


Time Warner/channel 713

Cablevision/channel 713

Comcast/channel 190

RCN/channel 189 (Manhattan and Queens)

RCN/channel 184 (other locations)



WLIW21

Viewer Services




Since there's no mention of HD content on WLIW Create, it looks like HD may be dead at this point on WLIW.


----------



## bjohn

Oh well, that sucks, NO HD.

http://wb11.trb.com/entertainment/hi...-hidef-utility 


That says 11 will broadcast part of WNET (still no HD)


don't know how old that info is...


----------



## seldenpat

What a load of crap! It's not like the damn HD signals were overlapping! No one in LI can even get channel 13.


So instead of HD, I get a load of crap do it yourself programming that is proliferating all over TV anyway.


Dolan must have forced them so more Long Islanders would subscribe to cable to get PBS-HD.


I'm glad I didn't donate now!


P.S. HD was the only reason I had to watch the damn channel. Now it gets deleted (hidden) from my box! NO PBS SD will be viewed in my household -- EVER! How do you like that WLIW?


Just when they had some cool Nova episodes in HD!


----------



## SnellKrell

The evil Dolans can't be blamed for everything - just most things!


If there is blame, place it with WLIW's choice not to broadcast in High Definition. They have no legal obligation to broadcast High Definition, ever. Only market pressure, meaning viewers can change the station's mind.


The true villain is the FCC. In its total stupidity, the rules are written concerning Digital Television - not High Definition.


The powerful NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) I'm sure, lobbied like mad before the Commission and Congress to make sure that television stations would not be forced to transmit High Definition - only Digital.


Please remember that all High Definition broadcasting is digital, but not all digital is High Definition.


But if you want to bash the Dolans, go right ahead. I blame them for the terrible weather we've been having!


Gary Press


----------



## seldenpat

Good one, Gary! I was wondering who to blame about the weather!!!


Glad you picked up on the "tounge in cheek" nature of the Dolan comment!


Regardless, the news sucks and I always felt it was bad business to offer something and then take it away later on.


----------



## SnellKrell

If viewers are upset with WLIW's decision, then they must call, e-mail, phone, write the station and let the station know of their displeasure.


Also, contact WNET, thirteen - it owns WLIW!


Gary Press


----------



## jezebel




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *If viewers are upset with WLIW's decision, then they must call, e-mail, phone, write the station and let the station know of their displeasure.
> 
> 
> Also, contact WNET, thirteen - it owns WLIW!
> 
> 
> Gary Press*



Guys, thanks for your posts regarding PBS HD Channel on WLIW-HD.


I just gotta say, this is an outrageously ridiculous turn of events. Tease us for a coupla months with the stunning programming, and then just take it away?? What's the point? What did they prove to themselves by broadcasting for only a few months?


Only around nine people can get WNET-DT OTA, and they all live on the same block in Jersey.


This is about forcing folks to pay big bucks for cable. Why did PBS create their HD Channel? So only the "elite" folks could view it? In the NY area there are tons of folks who do OTA only. What about low-income folks? Is there some discrimination at work here?


Sorry, I'm just venting. WLIW has not responded to my messages at all. But I'm not finished. Next stop on my message list -- EBC's Bill Baker and the other corporate officers.


Gary's right, we have to let them know --- more than once and to more than one entity.


jezebel


----------



## jezebel

One more question:


On my Samsung 151, prior to April 1st, WLIW-DT channel 22 mapped to 21-1 (PBS HD) and 21-2 (regular WLIW programming). Now the new Create programming is on 21-3, and 21-2 is still the regular programming. So why was 21-1 deleted entirely? If they have no plan to ever bring back PBS HD, why didn't they put the Create channel or their regular programming on 21-1?


Seems odd to me. Any ideas?


jezebel


----------



## KenA

Who knows why they do what they do. Only they can answer that question. I can only hope that they're leaving 21-1 open to bring back HD.


----------



## sting0r

If someone wants to search through the archives, I believe when WLIW first came on the lead engineer or someone posted the engineers phone number. I live local to the station and even called them up my self because I was having problems receiving it. Turns out I am in the shadow of the transmitter and that causes my problems. But again if someone wants to search you may be able to find out the guys name and number.... It was around feb of 2003


----------



## wward

Check this thread out its from 2002 read the second post from the top it lists a phone number for WLIW engineering.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...er#post1396059


----------



## DjPiLL

Are the two met games on Saturday and Sunday going to be in Hi-Def on WPIX-HD? I hope so... i specifically bought a cheap OTA receiver and antenna just to watch these games. Haven't seen one yet. I dont want to hook everything up tomorrow morning if it wont be in Hi-Def.


Also... any word on when WPIX is moving to that combiner package... and when WWOR is going Hi-Def?


----------



## trekkerj

They are all moving to the combiner at the same time, hence the name. WWOR will be hi-def once it is on the combiner.


----------



## jezebel




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Check this thread out its from 2002 read the second post from the top it lists a phone number for WLIW engineering.
> 
> http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...er#post1396059 *



FYI, 516-367-2100 is the general number for WLIW. You can call that number and ask to speak to an engineer. The person will then pick up or it will go into his voice mail. I got lucky last week and an engineer picked up. He sounded as distressed about the situation as I was.


But it's still a good idea to call that number and register your dissatisfaction to anyone you can speak with. I plan to keep calling and writing.


jezebel


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if anyone else noticed that no one hath lit a fire under the gerbil that runs the HD transmitter over at WABC........because "The Mummy Returns" isn't in HD.....although the screen graphic said "Where available".


Go figure.........


----------



## harican

yeah, I just switched over to my WTNH-DT feed (Connecticut's ABC), they're showing the MUMMY RETURNS in high definition.


----------



## vinnyv07

Im getting WNJN-DT good enough here on Staten Island NY....but when they show hd two of their sub ch's go out ...one of them is PBS kids which my son loves to watch at night. Does WNET do the same thing or does pbs kids show all night long? I get WNET at around 20% not enough to pull in a picture. Also, is there anyone that has said anything about the combiner or are we all just wishing here. Is there anyway of getting someone to tell u if it is going good for JUNE?


----------



## ghostman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Im getting WNJN-DT good enough here on Staten Island NY....but when they show hd two of their sub ch's go out ...one of them is PBS kids which my son loves to watch at night. Does WNET do the same thing or does pbs kids show all night long? I get WNET at around 20% not enough to pull in a picture.*



I can't tell you what WNET does (I can't receive any PBS in Manhattan), but it sounds like a rather standard bandwidth issue. Stations are allotted a frequency space large enough for 1080i HD plus a smidgen extra. They have a choice about how they use that space. PBS stations for the most part are dividing it up into three signals. But when they broadcast a 1080i program, they switch to just one channel.


----------



## ghostman

The Mets game on WPIX today was in beautiful 1080i. That one seemed to quietly slip by everyone.


Now if Yes could only get their installation at Yankee Stadium and a road truck done - the Yankees on WCBS paled in comparison.


----------



## trekkerj

WNET has 3 subchannels at all times. (All three are carried by Cablevision).


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *WNET has 3 subchannels at all times. (All three are carried by Cablevision).*



Is one of those ch's PBS Kids after 8pm or do they switch to 2 ch's showing nothing that anyone wants to see and an HD ch...or do they keep PBS kids on at night. I have the installation from VOOM and I am using the diplexer that they installed. Im in Staten Island and Im not getting NBC, PIX, or WNET. All are rather low sigs, but Iwould like to get them. Im hoping for the combiner project to finish in June...but Im not holding my breath. The combiner project will make every ch on it as powerful as cbs? Is that correct?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ghostman_
> *The Mets game on WPIX today was in beautiful 1080i. That one seemed to quietly slip by everyone.*



The reason it quietly slipped by is because their signal is so weak and VHF so lots of us cannot get WPIX-DT. Where is that combiner when you need it ?


Scott


----------



## winman42

Speaking of which, how many folks ARE getting of WPIX? I'm in Jersey city, NJ,

and i'm wondering if anyone in this area can get it. Whats the channle #?


thanks,


Winston


----------



## trekkerj

I get it near Morristown, but very weakly, with lots of breakups, and that's only because I am using a simple pair of rabbit ear antenna, and I'm at 700ft elevation. Not worth watching a ballgame with these breakups. It's a little better at night, so I use it for Angel on Wednesdays if the conditions are right. The channel is VHF 12.


----------



## winman42

thanks very much, i'll see if i can pull it in, watching the METS game now.


Win


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Just curious if anyone else noticed that no one hath lit a fire under the gerbil that runs the HD transmitter over at WABC........because "The Mummy Returns" isn't in HD.....although the screen graphic said "Where available".
> 
> 
> Go figure.........*



Yep saw the same thing did WPVI-DT have it in hd? On another note looks like Monday is going to be a pretty good tropo night.


----------



## DjPiLL

I live in Queens... about 13 miles from the tower and I get WPIX-HD. But the only way I can get it is if I put my antenna on my window facing manhattan... and I actually have to put the antenna outside on my window ledge. I live on the 5th floor of an apartment and I can see the Empire State Building from my window.


----------



## trekkerj

That's exactly what I do. Still get breakups though. I don't mind an occasional video breakup, but when it affects the audio is when it's a big deal. Don't want to miss anything. When it's bad, I use my tivo audio and sync it to the OTA video. Pain in the neck.


----------



## Robert Packman

I am new to OTA (i now have Voom) always just had cable or D*..i am using a ch master 4228 in easten BERGEN co (below the palisades) i get signals ok right now 2-4-5-7 lock(no problrms) 9 ok 11- 80 percent ok no 13..My question is what happens to this kind of OTA when all the trees fill in??i live in a very wooded area..i have seen other rooftop OTA's but those were for the Older residents who never had cable or SAT...thanks


----------



## Robert Packman

Oh i was told that for UHF OTA signals that you need for HDTV the signals bounce around thru etc trees..it's not as critical as a view of a satellite


----------



## sangs

I used to get WPIX perfectly, with a few breakups every now and then. Now though, forget it. Over the last three weeks it has been awful. Sometimes I get no signal at all and other times - like today - the signal is there, but the breakups are unbearable. And I have a rooftop antenna with a rotor. I don't know what the hell happened in the last three weeks, but they did it just in time for the Mets HD season.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sangs_
> *I used to get WPIX perfectly, with a few breakups every now and then. Now though, forget it. Over the last three weeks it has been awful. Sometimes I get no signal at all and other times - like today - the signal is there, but the breakups are unbearable. And I have a rooftop antenna with a rotor. I don't know what the hell happened in the last three weeks, but they did it just in time for the Mets HD season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



The WPIX-DT signal is just too weak and too VHF for me. I can get all the other stations perfectly. WPIX-DT is just too weak. Met fans need that combiner, and need is soon.


Scott


----------



## dturturro

Speaking as a Met fan, I'd rather have a major league pitching staff


----------



## monetnj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Yep saw the same thing did WPVI-DT have it in hd? On another note looks like Monday is going to be a pretty good tropo night.*



Yup, WPVI-DT did have Mummy Returns in HD Saturday night. Looked beautiful.


----------



## little_blaine




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ghostman_
> *The Mets game on WPIX today was in beautiful 1080i. That one seemed to quietly slip by everyone.
> 
> 
> Now if Yes could only get their installation at Yankee Stadium and a road truck done - the Yankees on WCBS paled in comparison.*



If a tree falls in the forest but noone sees it, does it make a sound?


----------



## Robert Packman

Again, how will the leaves coming in on the trees effect the CH 4228 for UHF HDTV?? getting strong signals now cbs -90...thanks


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Robert Packman_
> *Again, how will the leaves coming in on the trees effect the CH 4228 for UHF HDTV?? getting strong signals now cbs -90...thanks*



Trees and foliage could cause you problems, everything from signal strength that bounces around a little to picture drop outs. Unfortunately it's one of those wait and see things.


I have trees with some foliage on them that are about 50 - 60 feet away and unless the wind is blowing violently I don't notice any issues.


----------



## rgrossman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by little_blaine_
> *If a tree falls in the forest but noone sees it, does it make a sound?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yes.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Trees and foliage could cause you problems, everything from signal strength that bounces around a little to picture drop outs. Unfortunately it's one of those wait and see things.
> 
> 
> I have trees with some foliage on them that are about 50 - 60 feet away and unless the wind is blowing violently I don't notice any issues.*



From my experience (which you can read about over in the Central NJ OTA thread) when the leaves came in it DID indeed affect my OTA reception last year....multipath is more pronounced when the leaves start growing in.


And, so far this year, on one of my OTA antennas (the one that is only about 5 feet above rooftop level) 4-1 out of NYC has seen a steady decrease in signal strength whereas back in December/January it was pretty high (93 on my E86 meter).......but I *think* the lower signal strength that I see now isn't really "lower".....it's just not as clean....due to the leaves/multipath.


----------



## vinnyv07

I just ordered a DB8 from antennasdirect. I currently have the Stealth and Im getting cbs, Fox, UPN, and a pbs station in the on ch 50. I get abc most of the time but sometimes it drops out on me. Im getting abc with a 40 sig. Not high enough...sometimes the sig goes down to 25 and it starts dropping out. Voom is coming to the house on Thursday to run a single coax for the OTA ant rather than combining the 2 sigs in one coax. I hope this works.


----------



## Robert Packman

Well i guess i am going to be screwed, lots of big tall oaks on my property,neighbors, towns etc i guess i will only be able to get locals oct-april?? any known antenna to get thru this in all my years out here, i never needed an antenna untill now(with VOOM) just had a dish or cable..wonder how people did it years ago..I have a CH 4228 and i dont live to far from NYC but bellow the "palisades cliffs" and TREES up the wazoo...thanks again


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *From my experience (which you can read about over in the Central NJ OTA thread) when the leaves came in it DID indeed affect my OTA reception last year....multipath is more pronounced when the leaves start growing in.
> 
> 
> And, so far this year, on one of my OTA antennas (the one that is only about 5 feet above rooftop level) 4-1 out of NYC has seen a steady decrease in signal strength whereas back in December/January it was pretty high (93 on my E86 meter).......but I *think* the lower signal strength that I see now isn't really "lower".....it's just not as clean....due to the leaves/multipath.*



Hey its the tree doctor







I thought about you when I wrote my reply thing is I could not remember the exact name of the South Jersey thread (the search engine leaves a lot to be desired) otherwise I would have sent him there for some great reading on trees, multipath and frustration.


----------



## bjohn

Yes, so what are we supposed to do if there are trees around us?

Is OTA a dream when the leaves start growing?


Don't they make antennas that are powerful enough to reject multipath?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *Yes, so what are we supposed to do if there are trees around us?
> 
> Is OTA a dream when the leaves start growing?
> 
> 
> Don't they make antennas that are powerful enough to reject multipath?*



Well the antenna is only a part of the equation, high rejection rates etc... are important but the receiver plays a big part in the multipath game as well.


Thats why you will see folks on this board trying out different antenna/STB configurations to find out what works for their location


Having said that there is only so much technology can do, thing is with digital you either have enough of the signal at the antenna to work with and a sensitive enough receiver to work with the data stream coming in or you have nothing at all (no picture).


There is no such thing as ghosting or snow like with analog signals so to answer your question it's really a matter of experimentation and patience.


----------



## Robert Packman

Wward: would you say if you have good signal (locked) this winter/spring the leaves shouln't matter that much? i was told trees are not the propblem for OTA as they are for a direct line of sight for a DBS


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Robert Packman_
> *Wward: would you say if you have good signal (locked) this winter/spring the leaves shouln't matter that much? i was told trees are not the propblem for OTA as they are for a direct line of sight for a DBS*



I have a tree DIRECTLY in front of my Off-air antenna, and I have never seen a drop off due to foliage. Some have. I wouldn't worry about it until it presents a problem (hopefully never).


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I have a tree DIRECTLY in front of my Off-air antenna, and I have never seen a drop off due to foliage. Some have. I wouldn't worry about it until it presents a problem (hopefully never).*



Ditto that!


----------



## rfjf

I rececently purchased a Two Family house In queens and hooked up the OTA Antenna that was left behind by previous owner. Station status is as follows- 2, (okay) 4(ghosting) 5(terible) 7,(okay) 9,(terible) and 11 (great) 13 (great). I did some searches here but couldn't find an answer to my question. How can I improve my weak signals? Suggestions pls.? Do I need a new antenna?

I tried to move my the antenna around with the no luck. My line of sight to NYC has a Junior High school approx. 4 blocks away, but I clearly can see the ESB from my roof- distance to NYC -approx. 10 miles.

If I purchase an HDTV tuner will the signal improve automatically?

Do i just need an AMP?

My cable run is approx. 30ft.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thx.

Great Site and Great Thread!!


----------



## pyro383

Well I finally hooked up my double bowtie attena in the attic in my condo approx 45 miles from ESB. Last night 4/20/04 I recieved digital channels:

2, 5, 7, 9, 11 & 25 with no drop outs. I was very surprised with 7 since I never had a signal before. Now I just need 4 and would be a happy man. I am using the samsung 360


----------



## trekkerj

I'm surprised you can get WPIX with no dropouts from there and not get NBC. NBC is a little stronger.


----------



## George Thompson

rfjf,

First check to see that all the antenna elements are intact and not bent. Then check the cable. Is your antenna using flatline or coax cable? If it is flatline cable, I would replace it with a transformer and RG6u coax. In any event it is always a good idea to clean the contact areas with sandpaper and upon reconnecting, wrap securely with good electrical tape to prevent oxydation of connectors that will cause signal loss over time. Check connectors at both ends.

It wouldnt hurt to replace the cable if it looks old and worn out.

George


----------



## skyhawk223

Are you using any sort of amp/pre-amp? How high is the antenna? That's great you can receive all that with a simple double bowtie.


----------



## pyro383




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by skyhawk223_
> *Are you using any sort of amp/pre-amp? How high is the antenna? That's great you can receive all that with a simple double bowtie.*



No amp/pre-amp but am looking into it to keep the signal steady or increase it. I would say the antenna is 20 feet off the ground.


----------



## Scott G

Is anyone having reception problems with WABC-DT today ? It is usually my strongest channel yet today I am getting total dropouts. The signal level is at 90 then it drops down to 0-10. It is unwatchable for me. It is not my antenna, because all my other channels are fine. Even WNBC-DT that is usually the weakest for me is fine. Can someone please check out WABC-DT for me, and see how your signal level is ?


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## bjohn

Wow...



RFJF gets 13?


one of the feW?


----------



## neo0285

Wabc is messed up today, same problem as you my signal jumps from 95 to 10 and the picture drops out


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Is anyone having reception problems with WABC-DT today ? It is usually my strongest channel yet today I am getting total dropouts. The signal level is at 90 then it drops down to 0-10. It is unwatchable for me. It is not my antenna, because all my other channels are fine. Even WNBC-DT that is usually the weakest for me is fine. Can someone please check out WABC-DT for me, and see how your signal level is ?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Scott*



WABC-DT is totally down right now.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rfjf_
> *I rececently purchased a Two Family house In queens and hooked up the OTA Antenna that was left behind by previous owner. Station status is as follows- 2, (okay) 4(ghosting) 5(terible) 7,(okay) 9,(terible) and 11 (great) 13 (great). I did some searches here but couldn't find an answer to my question. How can I improve my weak signals? Suggestions pls.? Do I need a new antenna?
> 
> I tried to move my the antenna around with the no luck. My line of sight to NYC has a Junior High school approx. 4 blocks away, but I clearly can see the ESB from my roof- distance to NYC -approx. 10 miles.
> 
> If I purchase an HDTV tuner will the signal improve automatically?
> 
> Do i just need an AMP?
> 
> My cable run is approx. 30ft.
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thx.
> 
> Great Site and Great Thread!!*



Your testing is being done with analog channels. If you want to receive digital channels, you can use the same antenna (if it picks up UHF) but with a HDTV tuner.


----------



## KenA

I noticed last week that NBC started transmitting the DPL flag, but over the past few days the sound has been terrible. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## bjohn

I know when I watch Jay leno, I can hear all the snap-crackle-pops.

It sounds horrible.

Don't know about other shows..


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *I noticed last week that NBC started transmitting the DPL flag, but over the past few days the sound has been terrible. Has anyone else noticed this?*



I noticed it last night while trying to watch The West Wing. It was so horrible that I watched the SD version via DirecTV instead. I don't watch much NBC so I wasn't sure if it was my equipment or their signals. Glad it's them and not me.


----------



## Infominister

What is the "DPL flag?"


----------



## beavis

I've noticed the same sound problem on WNBC-DT for the last few days on both my cable and OTA feeds. Seems to be only during HD shows.


s2silber, DPL = Dolby Pro Logic


----------



## beavis

The sound on Leno seemed to be back to normal tonight.


----------



## George Thompson

As posted in another thread, the Advanced Technology Group at NBC is experimenting with DPL on WNBC-DT for the whole network.

GT


----------



## jaypb

Is WABC=DT doing something to their signal this AM? I'm experiencing what others talked about a few days ago........fluctuating signal strength from 100 to 0 and back up and down again constantly.


Occurring on both of my OTA setups.....6:30 am.


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *As posted in another thread, the Advanced Technology Group at NBC is experimenting with DPL on WNBC-DT for the whole network.
> 
> GT*



I didn't see the other thread. Search comes up empty. Can you post a link? Thanks.


----------



## michaelk

kind of a newbie here- but what is with all the experimenting and drop outs? Is this par for the course with Digital Tv or is this all because of the lack of permanent broadcast facilities?


When can we expect to get Digital TV as reliable as Analog? WHen the combiner is done? WHen the freedom Tower is built? When ever the analog airwaves are given back? When?


I just bought my HD display at Christmas and should have my HD Tivo in a couple of weeks, I'm wondering if I dont need to tell it just to record every thing from the D* SD channels and only use it for HD OTA when i can be there to actually watch and make sure the OTA feed is actually working correctly.


----------



## George Thompson

Ken, here is the thread from the HDTV Programing forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...merican+dreams 

An engineer from NBC Advanced Technology group logged in with his first post.


Michael, experimentation is done to standardize on equipment and processing. The audio experimentation should have no effect on signal strength and thus not cause drop outs. That is another matter since WNBC-DT is on the GE building and only running about 10K ERP.

I don't know how long it will take for Digital TV to be as reliable as NTSC. Ever since the computer industry got involved with standards there have been too many of them...lol. Ever build your own PC? Well thats what Digital TV is all about. Hundreds of different pieces of equipment and variations on how they get connected. Software upgrades, compatibility issues galore. Windows NT, 2000, XP, with just as many versions of Linux or Unix all trying to talk to one another.

So just because a combiner allows a half dozen stations to share an antenna at ESB does not mean DTV becomes as reliable as NTSC. Freedom tower either. Maybe the signal strength will be better but not DTV, don't confuse the two.

Sorry, I cant help you with your Tivo issue.

George


----------



## michaelk

thanks for the reply.


So sounds like the issues are more complex then just the lack of permanent transmitters.


Not the answer I was wanting to hear, but at least i have some information. Thanks.


I'm not too concerned about the experimentation like NBC is doing now with DPL- its more of the experiments or tweaks or glitches that cause ABC to go completely down in the middle of primetime (post from 4/21).



I guess i'll start out adventurous with the Tivo and OTA and see how many times I get bit in the rear for trusting the OTA signals.


----------



## KenA

Thanks for the link, GT. That is an excellent thread. Nice to see an engineer from NBC and a sound mixer from Technicolor jump in and share some info. One of the great things about this forum. I'm looking formward to good things from NBC.


BTW, ER looked and sounded pretty good last night, except for occasional sound dropouts. Didn't appear to affect the PQ, though.


----------



## dm145

Every once in a while I scan for new OTA channels and this morning I locked into 30-1 (100%) which remaps to 31-1. It looks like WPXN-DT is now on the air. Does anyone know if they plan on any HD programming?


----------



## bjohn

I see it too.

Thanks for the update.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Every once in a while I scan for new OTA channels and this morning I locked into 30-1 (100%) which remaps to 31-1. It looks like WPXN-DT is now on the air. Does anyone know if they plan on any HD programming?*



FYI this was already discussed in this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=WPXNDT


----------



## seaford

Are other markets having the same difficulties? Low power, experiments, plans for a combiner? I'm not moving, but am wondering if our area has average/typical problems. Does anyone browse threads for other cities? I have not but might if I find the time.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *FYI this was already discussed in this thread.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=WPXNDT *



This thread is out of control being 90 pages.

I did a search on this thread for WPXN and came up with nothing.

Sorry to bother you.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *This thread is out of control being 90 pages.
> 
> I did a search on this thread for WPXN and came up with nothing.
> 
> Sorry to bother you.*



No bother at all







try and use an entire borad search next time, sometimes it will yeild better results.


----------



## aaron.s

All -


Anyone experiencing reception problems with CBS 2-1 last night and this morning?


I Saw the signal go down quite low last night before 8pm primetime, but stabilized in time for Cold Case -- this morning I'm not getting a picture again....


Aaron


----------



## fourthstooge




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aaron.s_
> *All -
> 
> 
> Anyone experiencing reception problems with CBS 2-1 last night and this morning?
> 
> 
> I Saw the signal go down quite low last night before 8pm primetime, but stabilized in time for Cold Case -- this morning I'm not getting a picture again....
> 
> 
> Aaron*



yes, I had trouble in the afternoon with golf and again with 60 minutes so I switched to ch. 80 on D* for Cold Case which had its usual annoying sound problems.


using a RCA amplified indoor antenna with a Hughes E86 receiver.


----------



## vinnyv07

Are we close enough to June to ask if the combiner is on schedule? Seems to me no matter what I do...Im not going to get WPIX without a combiner.


----------



## Infominister

Last word I got from one of the engineers involved was "two to four months." That makes the June target date still possible, but leaves room for some delay. The combiner's being built, but they also have to finish all the wiring, construction, etc. at the Empire State Building.


----------



## shaown

Hi folks,

Question on the combiner, is it all new equipment, or are we moving everyone to one of the existing antennas/transmitters/etc. The reason I ask, is I get Fox perfectly, ABC sorta, and CBS not really... Wondering which of those stations the combiner will follow...

Thx,

-Shaown


----------



## PDPnNJ

I can't wait for the combiner !










WNBC-DT has lowered its signal once again. I can't barely lock the station any longer. CBS, FOX and ABC come in crystal clear.


PIX ? Forgetaboutit.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *I can't wait for the combiner !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WNBC-DT has lowered its signal once again. I can't barely lock the station any longer. CBS, FOX and ABC come in crystal clear.
> 
> 
> PIX ? Forgetaboutit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Are you sure they lowered their signal?

Try tweaking your antenna. I have a indoor that I need to move slightly every couple of days.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Well, I can pull in all the channels right up through WPIX, then I have nothing. None of the PBS channels come through for me, and definitely not the LI or NJ channels. I would probably have to put my antenna on a rotary or something to get those channels in. If the 'combiner' will allow me to get all of the NY PBS channels, I would be ecstatic. If it only let me finally pick up WNET, I'd be more than satisfied. It's too bad they won't re-broadcast the NJ and LI metro area channels as well such as WLIW, WLNY, and WNJN.


----------



## vinnyv07

Right now i get CBS at 85%...and thats the strongest sig that I get. I hope the combiner makes every ch as strong as CBS is right now. NBC is very spotty for me right now. WPIX isnt even on my radar. And WNET ....not enough for a picture.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Right now i get CBS at 85%...and thats the strongest sig that I get. I hope the combiner makes every ch as strong as CBS is right now. NBC is very spotty for me right now. WPIX isnt even on my radar. And WNET ....not enough for a picture.*



WNET's antenna is directional, pointing north from their transmitter location. If you're south of it or too far off to the sides, I don't think you can expect much, if you can expect much from 2.66kW on channel 61 in the first place.


Their antenna pattern:
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/antenn...91999DBD2D&d=0 


Their transmitter location:
http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapg...0.2%20&wid=0.2


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Last word I got from one of the engineers involved was "two to four months." That makes the June target date still possible, but leaves room for some delay. The combiner's being built, but they also have to finish all the wiring, construction, etc. at the Empire State Building.*



I can't even begin to tell you how long we've heard this story. I've frankly given up on this whole thing.


----------



## vinnyv07

That doesnt sound too promising. I would really like to see some of WPIX's Met games in HD.

By the way, is there anyone that has a site that will tell you all of our digital ch's transmitting power?


----------



## Trip in VA

Someone over at radio-info.com is reporting that W38CL Bronx, which is moving to channel 3 with 0.75 kW, will be a digital-only translator. Anyone with a combo VHF/UHF antenna between Manhattan and JFK, could you keep an eye out for this one, either analog or digital?

http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapg...ht=0.5&wid=0.5 


There's a map of the transmitter site, and below here is the directional pattern.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot...88&p360=0.042& 


I'd be interested to see if they go digital-only, and if so, what they put on it.


- Trip


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *That doesnt sound too promising. I would really like to see some of WPIX's Met games in HD.
> 
> By the way, is there anyone that has a site that will tell you all of our digital ch's transmitting power?*



I receive WPIX-DT and I have yet to see a Met game in HD. All I've seen so far is upconverted Video. Certainly not what I was hoping for


----------



## vruiz

Home games only.


----------



## mortega31686

Are any of you guys getting problems on the local FOX channel WNYW. I live in stamford, CT and am usually able to get a 40-50% signal on that channel but tonight its gone down to 0-13%. Let me know if any of you are also recognizing a signal decrease.

-Mike


----------



## michaelk

curious about sports.


What happens if the Mets are someplace else that has HD. Do they act like grownups and share the HD camera's or is it going to be another couple of years till we get away games in HD because all the visitor gear will get upgraded later? It might be 20 years till the Brewers have HD for the visiting team.


(I am amazed how many camera's there are in Yankee stadium now- I remeber as a kid there were 3- maybe 5. Now i see like 15 or 20 and i'm not even sure i see them all)


----------



## beavis

So far, even when the Mets have been in a stadium that has HD cameras their local NY broadcast is in SD. Their road production crew doesn't have HD cameras yet.


This should be changing soon. The Padres seem to be broadcasting all their games in HD now, so they must have a traveling HD crew.


This Sunday's Mets game vs. the Padres is going to be carried on INHD, but it will probably be blacked out in NY.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by beavis_
> *So far, even when the Mets have been in a stadium that has HD cameras their local NY broadcast is in SD. Their road production crew doesn't have HD cameras yet.
> 
> 
> This should be changing soon. The Padres seem to be broadcasting all their games in HD now, so they must have a traveling HD crew.
> 
> 
> This Sunday's Mets game vs. the Padres is going to be carried on INHD, but it will probably be blacked out in NY.*



I will just say that I don't believe you...Please explain how you know that things "should be changing soon".


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Are you sure they lowered their signal?
> 
> Try tweaking your antenna. I have a indoor that I need to move slightly every couple of days.*



They either lowered or changed frequency. I was able to find some signal in the other side of the room.









I don't need to move my antenna for ABC, FOX or CBS for NBC, OTOH


----------



## rChaz

Does anyone know how to prompt CBS to update their PSIP to reflect DST? Oh well, off by an hour now, I guess in another 6 months we'll be back on schedule, +- a few minutes. It's too bad the broadcasters don't seem to take PSIP seriously.


----------



## compuz1

Hi. I live in Oyster Bay, Long Island. Right now, I get CBS, ABC, NBC, UNI, FOX.

When the new combiner is on-line, where will it be located from the current location my antenna is pointed?


Will I have to probably move my antenna to get the channels I would like to watch?


Also, WWOR will be on the combiner, correct?


Thanks

SMA


----------



## trekkerj

The combiner is where CBS, FOX, and WPIX are currently located. WWOR will be there too, on its own channel.


----------



## Infominister

I don't think CBS, WNYW (Fox) and WPIX are currently located on the combiner. They're all at the Empire State Building, but with their own transmitters at different locations up there.


----------



## trekkerj

I meant geographically.


----------



## compuz1

so I probably wont have to change my antenna's orientation? The only channels I care about are NBC, ABC, UPN? I will be getting CBS over DirecTV and will soon get FOX (they are rumored to go on the bird this summer)


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by compuz1_
> *so I probably wont have to change my antenna's orientation? The only channels I care about are NBC, ABC, UPN? I will be getting CBS over DirecTV and will soon get FOX (they are rumored to go on the bird this summer)*



I prefer the CBS-HD presentation on OTA over DirecTV's. The PQ quality is slightly better.


----------



## aaron.s

All -


Just got my HD Tivo (DirecTV) and I swear that OTA CBS-HD's power level has gone down recently -- I get low signal strengths at times and then high for a while.... I can't understand it. I don't this it's multipath because then you would think that it would fluctuate wildly all the time. Granted I didn't seem to have these problems at all with my Samsung SIR-TS160 -- but even that has now been moved to the bedroom and is showing lower strengths.


As an example -- last night no problems -- watched and recorded CSI. Today (durint the day) I can't even lock on with signal strengths in the teens.


Whats going on?


Aaron


----------



## John Mason

I'm only about 10 blocks from WCBS-DT and my signal flucuates, too. But that's mostly from multipath in NYC's canyons and a north-facing location. (Rely mostly on cable rather than OTA.)


Just speculation, but perhaps increasing densities of tree foliage is creating problems for more distant viewers. Station engineer Lee Wood posted a good explanation a few years back if anyone wants to search for it. -- John


----------



## pabuwal




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aaron.s_
> *All -
> 
> 
> Just got my HD Tivo (DirecTV) and I swear that OTA CBS-HD's power level has gone down recently -- I get low signal strengths at times and then high for a while.... I can't understand it. I don't this it's multipath because then you would think that it would fluctuate wildly all the time. Granted I didn't seem to have these problems at all with my Samsung SIR-TS160 -- but even that has now been moved to the bedroom and is showing lower strengths.
> 
> 
> As an example -- last night no problems -- watched and recorded CSI. Today (durint the day) I can't even lock on with signal strengths in the teens.
> 
> 
> Whats going on?
> 
> 
> Aaron*



I have the same problem on the same channel with the same receiver. I now use CBS-Phil it's so bad.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aaron.s_
> *Just got my HD Tivo (DirecTV) and I swear that OTA CBS-HD's power level has gone down recently -- I get low signal strengths at times and then high for a while.... I can't understand it. I don't this it's multipath because then you would think that it would fluctuate wildly all the time. Granted I didn't seem to have these problems at all with my Samsung SIR-TS160 -- but even that has now been moved to the bedroom and is showing lower strengths.
> 
> 
> As an example -- last night no problems -- watched and recorded CSI. Today (durint the day) I can't even lock on with signal strengths in the teens.
> 
> 
> Whats going on?*



WCBS-DT and WPIX-DT have been going off the air for 4 or 5 hours each night for the last 3 nights. I don't know what they're doing, but they must be doing something, and perhaps that's causing WCBS-DT to run at lower power than usual. Though as one of the only stations basically at full power and other stations running well below 10% of WCBS-DT, I wouldn't expect you'd notice.


----------



## SnellKrell

Could all these anomalies be due to the large amount of work being done on the mast in connection with the combiner?


Even if a specific channel is not assigned to the combiner, for workers' safety, I know that power has to be lowered for any and all transmissions emanating from the location.


This is a possible and logical answer to why signal strength has recently been so erratic.


Gary


----------



## aaron.s

Doug -


For me now - it's been totaly erratic -- signal level goes down for a while into the teens, so the HD-Tivo losses the lock, then it will come back for a little while.


It's been too low for most of the day for me now -- but last night it was rock solid while I watched CSI. Thats why I'm guessing they are doing something vs. a response I got back about the folliage coming in now and causing problems.


Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And I don't want to record things off CBS on DirecTV because I definately notice it is a softer picture than OTA.


Aaron


PS - can I do the "mod" you did to your CM4228 on my CM4221??




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *WCBS-DT and WPIX-DT have been going off the air for 4 or 5 hours each night for the last 3 nights. I don't know what they're doing, but they must be doing something, and perhaps that's causing WCBS-DT to run at lower power than usual. Though as one of the only stations basically at full power and other stations running well below 10% of WCBS-DT, I wouldn't expect you'd notice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aaron.s_
> *PS - can I do the "mod" you did to your CM4228 on my CM4221??*



No: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...98#post1918498


----------



## aaron.s

Thanks Doug!


Aaron


----------



## MLM

For the last week to 10 days I've been having trouble with ABC. Picture goes in and out. Before then it was perfect. CBS, NBC, and FOX are still perfect. WPIX awaits UHF broadcast.


My UHF antenna (CM 4308) is on the chimney of a cape in Bayside. Could it be that the trees now have leaves?


I haven't yet played with antenna orientation.


----------



## jcondon

Last night I moved my HR10-250 into the entertainment center. Took me about 20 mins to figure out that CBS either went off the air or lowered their signal strength inbetween my move. I thought for sure I screwed up a connection or something. Also good to know that CBS might not be at full strength. I am only getting 60s for them now. Just like I get for Fox and ABC. I expected CBS to be stronger reading this forum. Not sure if I should try a new antenna or just wait it out or what. Is high 60s enough signal? Seems to fade during the day but, I have only had it setup for about 18 hours



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *WCBS-DT and WPIX-DT have been going off the air for 4 or 5 hours each night for the last 3 nights. I don't know what they're doing, but they must be doing something, and perhaps that's causing WCBS-DT to run at lower power than usual. Though as one of the only stations basically at full power and other stations running well below 10% of WCBS-DT, I wouldn't expect you'd notice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## bjohn

I haven't had any problems with the major network signals for about 2 months or more

.

CBS i get over 90% all evening. (don't know about day, since i'm not here)

I think they STOP broadcasting after the letterman show, i get 0%

Everything else comes in fine for me.


The problems some are having could be from antenna orientation or foilage.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *Last night I moved my HR10-250 into the entertainment center. Took me about 20 mins to figure out that CBS either went off the air or lowered their signal strength inbetween my move. I thought for sure I screwed up a connection or something. Also good to know that CBS might not be at full strength. I am only getting 60s for them now. Just like I get for Fox and ABC. I expected CBS to be stronger reading this forum. Not sure if I should try a new antenna or just wait it out or what. Is high 60s enough signal? Seems to fade during the day but, I have only had it setup for about 18 hours*



WCBS-DT is off the air due to maintenance at that time of the night.


----------



## marksn1

I am wondering if anyone is having problems locking onto a signal for NBC HDTV OTA? My signal comes on and than goes off constantly and Im not having any problems with any of the other HDTV signals. Ive tried altering the position of my antenna and that doesnt seem to make any difference. I live in Northern NJ about 10 miles from the city. Very frustrating. Anyone else experiencing this? Thanks!


----------



## Robert Packman

i live a little farther north and i get it ok but it's one of the weaker ones(signal strentgh#'s)


----------



## vinnyv07

I tried moving my Ant around a bit...Im in Staten Island and I still cant get enough of a sig for NBC. Cbs has been fine for me with sigs in the upper 70's to low 80's. I have been having trouble with ABC , going to try and tweek the Ant today.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> I am wondering if anyone is having problems locking onto a signal for NBC HDTV OTA?



I am. I was able to lock it without problems. Now in order to lock it, I have to go to the other side of the room. I can't wait for this combiner project !


----------



## Raiden915

to bergen county people: i live in bergenfield and i get NBC at 78% using an indoor silver serpent with a preamp. mines run pretty smooth


----------



## Raiden915

this is for NJ peeps or anyone else that gets the PBS feed in monclair. Is anyone getting sick of that hi-def NJ show they always put up every nite? Im tuning in everynite hoping to see a new show, but i see that same program again. anyone know whats goin on in monclair?


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Raiden915_
> *this is for NJ peeps or anyone else that gets the PBS feed in monclair. Is anyone getting sick of that hi-def NJ show they always put up every nite? Im tuning in everynite hoping to see a new show, but i see that same program again. anyone know whats goin on in monclair?*



Agreed. The New Jersey tour loop used to be an eye candy when I got my HD set but now I'm sick of it. No programming on that channel whatsoever.


----------



## little_blaine




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Agreed. The New Jersey tour loop used to be an eye candy when I got my HD set but now I'm sick of it. No programming on that channel whatsoever.*



Ditto. Good on occasion for impressing guests, but I'd rather have PBS kids around the clock... let the kids watch clifford and dragon tales before bedtime. Here's a thought: Clifford the Big Red Dog in HD!


----------



## Robert Packman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Raiden915_
> *to bergen county people: i live in bergenfield and i get NBC at 78% using an indoor silver serpent with a preamp. mines run pretty smooth*



guess the pre amp really makes the difference ,i was told no pre-amp because you can over mod your signals(if you get them ok)NBC for me is @40% but so far a steady picture..CBS 89%


----------



## Raiden915

hey packman, try the channel master 7775 preamp (UHF only). its made of high quality parts. if anything bad happens to ur picture, then just return it. without it i would be getting NBC around 30%. thats because my antenna is hooked up in my basement!


----------



## slocko

anybody here do any sidework installing rooftop antennas? believe it or not, i haven't been successful in finding anyone. about to try the yellowpages again.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _From Fybush.Com:_
> 
> 
> (One more downstate TV note: the former W38CL in the Bronx has filed for a license to cover for its new facilities on channel 3. Craig Fox's LPTV has apparently gone digital-only on this plum channel, nestled between the WCBS-TV and WNBC analog facilities on the VHF dial.)



Is there anyone that can keep an eye open for this and see what kind of programming will be here?


- Trip


----------



## jezebel




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Agreed. The New Jersey tour loop used to be an eye candy when I got my HD set but now I'm sick of it. No programming on that channel whatsoever.*



The PBS organization has given us OTA folks in the NY metro area a raw deal, IMO. They own the PBS HD Channel, which has terrific programming and wonderful PQ. Their press release boasts that it is available from local PBS stations that have transitioned to digital broadcasting. And yet, WNET can be received by only a "handful" of people, WNJN apparently is just doing the HD loop, and WLIW, which was broadcasting this glorious channel for a few months, has inexplicably dropped it entirely.


There is no PBS HD Channel in the nation's #1 television market unless you want to pay the money each month to subscribe to cable.


What's wrong with this picture (or lack thereof)?


If anyone has the inside scoop behind this sorry state of affairs, please post. Numerous communications to WLIW, for example, are responded to with a canned message that offers no answer to the simply-stated question, "why?" It just states the obvious, that they are no longer broadcasting the PBS HD Channel.


Thanks,


jezebel


----------



## Ken Ross

What Jezebel said!!!


----------



## marksn1

It is Monday nite and I have lost 4-1 NBC HD completely. Fortunately, I am watching a very poor movie, 10.5, so no big loss, but I would like to find out what is going on. I still receive all other HD channels (Fox, CBS, ABC, etc.) I have a rotating Channel Master on the roof but it doesnt seem to matter which way I rotate it, still no signal. Is anyone else experiencing this type of problem?


----------



## Raiden915

thats odd, im getting NBC HD just fine here.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Are we close enough to June to ask if the combiner is on schedule?*



I am now hearing that you might have to add about 3 months.


----------



## abater

In reference to a New Jersey antenna installer, try SkyDigital.Com.


Andy


----------



## jap

Also in reference to a NJ antenna installer, try Ricsan Radio & TV Service in Clark or Colonia, can't remember which one installed mine a couple of years ago.


----------



## seaford

Freedom tower breaks ground July 4 with a completion date of 2009. With any luck it will be ready before the combiner.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I am now hearing that you might have to add about 3 months.*



Where can you find information about this combiner project ?


----------



## slocko

Thxs!!!! Do you have experience with them?????



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by abater_
> *In reference to a New Jersey antenna installer, try SkyDigital.Com.
> 
> 
> Andy*


----------



## slocko

thxs, i found them. i will check them out.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jap_
> *Also in reference to a NJ antenna installer, try Ricsan Radio & TV Service in Clark or Colonia, can't remember which one installed mine a couple of years ago.*


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seaford_
> *Freedom tower breaks ground July 4 with a completion date of 2009. With any luck it will be ready before the combiner.*



Man, aint that the truth!! This 'combiner project' is a joke. I've read how this thing was being made almost TWO YEARS ago. I honestly don't believe anything I read on this 'project'.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Man, aint that the truth!! This 'combiner project' is a joke. I've read how this thing was being made almost TWO YEARS ago. I honestly don't believe anything I read on this 'project'.*



5 years to build the Freedom Tower, or are they referring to the whole project? I thought the World Trade Center only took about 2 years.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I am now hearing that you might have to add about 3 months.*



Three more months for the combiner.....great. I have no idea why it takes so long to do things in one of the largest, greatest city in the world. Why....cant we just build something on time. Why are the Jets in Giant Stadium? Why are roads falling apart when New Jersey has nice roads? Why can we never do anything on time? Why?


----------



## rgrossman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *I have no idea why it takes so long to do things in one of the largest, greatest city in the world.*



It is no advantage being large, or even "great." It is almost always more difficult, and certainly more expensive, to do something in a crowded, vertical city like New York.


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rgrossman_
> *It is no advantage being large, or even "great." It is almost always more difficult, and certainly more expensive, to do something in a crowded, vertical city like New York.*



Its all about the money. You really think they're going to push a project that will just help them lose $$$ for a few years? Why do you think they all have temp antennas up now? This combiner is a joke.


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I am now hearing that you might have to add about 3 months.*



Is this from a reliable source?


And as we can see from the resulting follow-up postings...there is a lot of hate and discontent and disappointment if we really have to wait another three months or so.


----------



## dswallow

I think if we all pooled the money we're spending trying to get these NYC stations in reliably we could probably buy our own combiner, install it and rent it to the stations before they'll ever get this thing up and operating on their own.


----------



## Infominister

I've spoken to engineering contacts at all four network affiliates, and while no one want to go out on a limb, here's the general consensus:


Late June's a possibility if all goes well (does it ever?); in time for the fall season is a safe bet; anything in between is altogether possible.


----------



## vinnyv07

Thank You s2silber. Good to hear that. So.....the latest we would have to wait is Sept. Actually any news is good news. The thing that depresses me so is the lack of news on the whole combiner project. It IS important to alot of people. The powers at be should realize that. Why take the time to broadcast in HD? I mean WPIX...why even have HD when around 10% of the people in the NY/NJ area cant pull in the sig? Why bother? Even NBC as lame as they are with their HD (Friends last show not in HD?) is a difficult sig for me to pull in. And its not only me....I talk to alot of people in my area that cant pull NBC in. The combiner does matter and it is important. NY deserves to pull in digital locals without having to pay cable top dollar to have access to them. We should get a petition together or email whoever we have to email....flood their computers!!!! We should be heard instead of staying quite. Just who is in charge of building the combiner? Even if its just emails sent to a group of people.....the more interest that is shown the better. Who knows, we might even be able to get someone's attention.


----------



## sangs

Well I had a bit of a breakthrough this morning. Since I got my rooftop antenna a couple of years ago, I've had it run through a Winegard DA-1009 amp. For a while, I picked up everything with no problem, then I started having problems getting FOX, WPIX and UPN. Constant breakups from all of them. CBS, ABC and NBC haven't given me any issues. So this morning I decided to disconnect my amp and voila, FOX, WPIX and UPN started coming in with no problem! Don't ask why I never thought to do it earlier. Live and learn I guess.


----------



## slocko

Is the combiner project going to make all the stations broadcast at the same power?


----------



## feloniousmonkey

I have had experiences where amplifier's, pre-amps complicate the signal and are not necessary in most cases. It is just overkill. I would recc. to any person just starting out, get the best antenna the tallest mast you can safely install and the best coaxial cable. Then tweek it to get the best possible results. IMO. Peace


fmonkey-



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sangs_
> *Well I had a bit of a breakthrough this morning. Since I got my rooftop antenna a couple of years ago, I've had it run through a Winegard DA-1009 amp. For a while, I picked up everything with no problem, then I started having problems getting FOX, WPIX and UPN. Constant breakups from all of them. CBS, ABC and NBC haven't given me any issues. So this morning I decided to disconnect my amp and voila, FOX, WPIX and UPN started coming in with no problem! Don't ask why I never thought to do it earlier. Live and learn I guess.*


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Is the combiner project going to make all the stations broadcast at the same power?*



Not quite, but within ~2db of each other, not noticeable. Guess who runs the most power? The antenna should cover 85% of WTC map.

GT


----------



## slocko

I give up. PBS?


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *I give up. PBS?*



How about CBS? It is their antenna, afterall.


----------



## SnellKrell

Who owns an antenna has absolutely nothing to do with it.


It all comes down to those wonderful folks in Washington, the F.C.C.


It dictates ERP - Effective Radiated Power to each and every station.


This is dependent upon channel allocation, height, signal pattern, etc. The lower the channel allocation, the less power is needed to reach the same audience.


So when we judge the "power" of a channel on the Empire State, all of the above must be taken into account.


Gary


----------



## George Thompson

Only in theory Gary. Frequency/power allocation only applies if on individual antenna. This combiner/antenna combination cannot handle full allocated power from each station. You would have a meltdown.

GT


----------



## SnellKrell

No one talked about full-power.


We probably will not enjoy full-power until Freedom Tower comes on-line.


Even with the shared situation, which is the case of the combiner, the commision has already authorized the amount of power that each station can eminate - and this allocation is also based upon channel number, physical positioning on the antenna, signal pattern, etc.


Gary (Less Than Full-Power)


----------



## Infominister

I just hope WNBC-DT will be broadcasting at some decent modicum of power at least by the time of the Olympics. Either that, or sign an O&O carriage deal with DirecTV by then.


----------



## GoldenBoy

So what's the latest on when the so-called 'combiner' is set to go live?


----------



## neo0285




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *So what's the latest on when the so-called 'combiner' is set to go live?*



Probably june 2011!!!


----------



## JeffPatt

I have had a Sony HD-100 for a while and I used to get WNBC in with fairly good signal strength. However, I have not watched anything in HD on NBC in a while


I just installed an HD-TiVo yesterday and I noticed it did not get any signal for WNBC. My first thought was that the HD-TiVo had a problem, so I plugged back in my HD-100 and still had the same problem. Good news is I do not think it is a TiVo problem, bad news is what happened to the signal?


I live in Tenafly (under10 miles to the ESB) and I have a large roof top Radio Shack antenna that gets in the 90-100 range on all the other NY stations, so I'm at bit confused at what is going on with WNBC.


Jeff


----------



## aaron.s

Jeff -


When I got my HD Tivo I lost NBC also.... had to add a pre-amp to my Channelmaster 4221 to get it back..... My previous receiver (Samsung SIR-TS160) was still able to pull in NBC without the pre-amp but now I have one and am getting higher strengths accross the board.


I live in Yonkers


Aaron



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JeffPatt_
> *I have had a Sony HD-100 for a while and I used to get WNBC in with fairly good signal strength. However, I have not watched anything in HD on NBC in a while
> 
> 
> I just installed an HD-TiVo yesterday and I noticed it did not get any signal for WNBC. My first thought was that the HD-TiVo had a problem, so I plugged back in my HD-100 and still had the same problem. Good news is I do not think it is a TiVo problem, bad news is what happened to the signal?
> 
> 
> I live in Tenafly (under10 miles to the ESB) and I have a large roof top Radio Shack antenna that gets in the 90-100 range on all the other NY stations, so I'm at bit confused at what is going on with WNBC.
> 
> 
> Jeff*


----------



## JeffPatt

Can you recommend a good pre-amp?


----------



## bowbie89




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JeffPatt_
> *Can you recommend a good pre-amp?*



Channel Master 7777 here .


----------



## crownman6

Anybody know what happened with NBC? I never got a signal until today. Now I'm getting a 62 signal.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by crownman6_
> *Anybody know what happened with NBC? I never got a signal until today. Now I'm getting a 62 signal.*



Could be atmospheric conditions. It will probably be gone tomorrow.


----------



## George Thompson

Combiner update. Sources close to the project at another station say they expect delivery sometime at the end of the month. However, the FM station that was suppost to move to make way for the package was stalled by the lady that manages the building. Now a new location (in the building) has to be found and made ready. Your guess is as good as mine when that will happen.

Antenna work still goes on during overnights. That would account for signals disappearing in the middle of the night. Transmitters must be manned and locked down.

GT


----------



## MJConnel

Thanks, George for the update. Your participation on this forum is very much appreciated, as one of the few reliable sources for updates. If I understand you correctly, this new location for the FM station can hold up the transfer of DTV stations to the ESB. If this is true, couldn't the owner of the new location hold the project hostage indefinitely? I just hope it's complete before the Olympics.


----------



## George Thompson

It's Leona that didnt want the FM station moved, (she manages the building). A different location for the combiner (in the immediate area) needs to be found.


----------



## MJConnel

Wow! You're right, Helmsley owns the lease on the ESB. And I thought women were supposed to be more level headed, less inclined to having power trips...


----------



## Gary Quiring

I finally went HD with a HR10-250 Tivo from DirecTV. The OTA is my problem. I live in Matawan, NJ 07747 (Monmouth County). I can get ABC, FOX and CBS with signal strength of 65-71 using my existing attic VHF/UHF antenna. What do I need to get HD NBC, WOR (UPN) and WPIX (WB). UPN for example is about 5-13 signal strength.


Should I upgrade the existing attic antenna or would a pre-amp be a better way to start? Is it a must to use a dedicated UHF antenna or can I stick with a combo?


Thanks

Gary


----------



## George Thompson

Gary,

I see you are at the edge of the City Grade contour for WNBC-DT. If you need to stay with a hidden attic antenna I would add a preamp. Adding a fringe or deep fringe antenna in your attic sort of negates its purpose. The best solution is to put the antenna up on the roof where it belongs....lol.

GT


----------



## slocko

I got quoted about $200 for a rooftop installation, including labor plus antenna.


I am going to hold off because last night I tried the amplified version of the megawave set top antenna and it pulled in NBC with breakups.


I didn't have time to play with it since my wife took over the tv. I'll try tonight.

http://www.megawave.com/mtv1.htm 




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I finally went HD with a HR10-250 Tivo from DirecTV. The OTA is my problem. I live in Matawan, NJ 07747 (Monmouth County). I can get ABC, FOX and CBS with signal strength of 65-71 using my existing attic VHF/UHF antenna. What do I need to get HD NBC, WOR (UPN) and WPIX (WB). UPN for example is about 5-13 signal strength.
> 
> 
> Should I upgrade the existing attic antenna or would a pre-amp be a better way to start? Is it a must to use a dedicated UHF antenna or can I stick with a combo?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gary*


----------



## vinnyv07

Never seen anything like that megawave Ant...looks interesting. 30 day money back ...I might try it and see what happens. Im having major trouble pulling in NBC in Staten Island...I tried DB8 on the roof and that was no better than the Amplified Stealth...which is up there now.


----------



## bgut1

Gary - I live a little bit due south of you in Ocean Twsp. and receive NBC fine (60-70) as well as ABC, CBS and FOX (90-100). I am using a Winegard HD9095P and Channel Master Preamp with an attic install. I had tried Winegard's largest combo antenna to pick up WPIX but it seemed to compromise the UHF strength. The dedicated UHF antenna suits me fine until the combiner is ready to go. If you need a recommendation for a local installer let me know.


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Combiner update. Sources close to the project at another station say they expect delivery sometime at the end of the month. However, the FM station that was suppost to move to make way for the package was stalled by the lady that manages the building. Now a new location (in the building) has to be found and made ready. Your guess is as good as mine when that will happen.
> 
> GT*



Ah yes, delay #2,432. Anybody 'really' think this thing will ever come off. This is rapidly becoming the biggest joke in broadcast history. Unreal.


----------



## George Thompson

Well it seems several Vice Presidents of Engineering for several stations are going through the motions of completing the work on this project so you can watch OTA HDTV. This is the "project from hell" as one of them described it. Even so, they plan on seeing it through. I've seen worse.

The consortium now has the task of designing the Freedom Tower raceways through the building in the coming months. Another fun project.

Attend a few SMPTE or IEEE meetings and question the guys yourself.

GT


----------



## slocko

i guess it must have been a coincidence with whatever nbc was doing last night. it's gone today. bummer.


it is a great antenna with a tiny footprint. i pull in cbs,fox,abc, and others with no problems.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *I got quoted about $200 for a rooftop installation, including labor plus antenna.
> 
> 
> I am going to hold off because last night I tried the amplified version of the megawave set top antenna and it pulled in NBC with breakups.
> 
> 
> I didn't have time to play with it since my wife took over the tv. I'll try tonight.
> 
> http://www.megawave.com/mtv1.htm *


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Ah yes, delay #2,432. Anybody 'really' think this thing will ever come off. This is rapidly becoming the biggest joke in broadcast history. Unreal.*



I hear ya Ken. Unfortunately if this had been an analog tower, it would have been built and online in less than 3 months.


Digital still has a long way to go.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

I still expect to see the freedom tower complete before the combiner project.


----------



## WalterK

Upon reading the threads about an FM station in the way of the combiner project at Empire , I read on another newsgroup that WCBSFM has been put out of the Empire State Building and is now transmitting from the Viacom building on Broadway. Could this be related to the space problem and it is now solved?????Anyone know about this???


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by WalterK_
> *Upon reading the threads about an FM station in the way of the combiner project at Empire , I read on another newsgroup that WCBSFM has been put out of the Empire State Building and is now transmitting from the Viacom building on Broadway. Could this be related to the space problem and it is now solved?????Anyone know about this???*



Links? Reference?


----------



## WalterK

It was mentioned on Allan Sniffens NYRMB today.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Gary,
> 
> I see you are at the edge of the City Grade contour for WNBC-DT. If you need to stay with a hidden attic antenna I would add a preamp.
> 
> GT*



I installed a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp and improved the signal strenth to 91 for ABC and CBS. No joy on NBC, it bounces from 10-55. The WB (WPIX) same story. It's a pogo stick. I also tried a silver sensor antenna and overall the signal strenth was slighty less for all channels.


----------



## George Thompson

Sorry Gary, it looks like attic locations are marginal at best.


Here is a look at some info from last November at ESB that folks will find interesting.
http://www.fybush.com/site-031120.html 

GT


----------



## jcondon

Here is the link to Allan Sniffen's message board with the thread.

http://www.musicradio77.com/wwwboard...es/234076.html 



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *Links? Reference?*


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I installed a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp and improved the signal strenth to 91 for ABC and CBS. No joy on NBC, it bounces from 10-55. The WB (WPIX) same story. It's a pogo stick. I also tried a silver sensor antenna and overall the signal strenth was slighty less for all channels.*



Hey Gary, what was your sig on ABC before installing the CH 7777? Mine bounces around 45 to 50 down to 35.....with the wind and everything blowing the leaves.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Hey Gary, what was your sig on ABC before installing the CH 7777? Mine bounces around 45 to 50 down to 35.....with the wind and everything blowing the leaves.*



ABC was in low 80's before the pre-amp. It was easy to install so I am happy with it. I just wish I could get NBC.


----------



## vinnyv07

Im in SI, NY....near NJ and i cant get NBC for nothing....the most i get is a 20 sig. I think i would have to build a tower to get it. NBC should be ashamed of themselves. It doesnt seem that they care about HD. Not even the friends finale was in HD...they are horriable. If some of these PBS stations and Spanish stations could put up a digital sig for all of us to get , NBC being a major network with the olympics coming up should be able to up their power so all of us could get some sort of signal. They should be ashamed and I hope their ratings drop to 0.


----------



## trekkerj

It's not their fault. They are waiting for the combiner. I think it's nice they made an effort to use the space they had on GE and give us anything.


----------



## vinnyv07

True very true...Im just venting ...I spent the day raising a 15ft mast with Ant on my roof in the heat. All to no avail ...no sig on NBC ...around 35 to 40ft up, still no sig. Im just angry. I'll get over it.


----------



## SnellKrell

The loss of the WTC site, of course, wasn't NBC/GE's fault. The choice of erecting an ineffective antenna atop of the GE Building is their fault. GE is a "coop" owner of the space it uses in the building. General Electric could have found a way to move transmission to Empire State (as crowded as it is, others found a way) or to 4 Times Square. The irony is that RCA was at the forefront of broadcast technology - GE couldn't care less. Washington had to prod them into more HD programming - CBS had been so far ahead of them. Yes, viewers should vent - the airwaves belong to us - station owners are caretakers who must deal in the public's "interest, convenience and necessity." They owe it to us. NBC/GE should be ashamed of themselves for their puny attempt to satisfy their legal obligations. General Sarnoff, I'm sure, is rolling in his grave. GE, in so many ways, shows little corporate responsibility to the public.


Gary Press


----------



## vinnyv07

If the combiner isnt ready on time...or somewhat on time...I wont even get the olympics in HD. And most people in my area are in the same boat as I am. No matter what installer comes to the house , you arent getting NBCDT. Sad.


----------



## cmeinck

Looking for help in selecting an OTA antenna. Just got my HD receiver from D*. I plugged in the $40 Silver Sensor and do not get any HD channels. I purchased a TERK 44 attachment for my dish from Radio Shack. The installer was supposed to attach to my dish, but did not. The moved my dish to a higher roof on my house, so I'd rather no up there (apparently, the receiver couldn't receive Sat B signals on the lower roof). That being said, I used to have no problems with A and C on the lower roof. So, I'm left w/ a TERK 44 (still in box), a non-working Silver Sensor and an anxious wife. I've seen lots mentioned about the Channel Master and the Squareshooter. I'm in Amityville. Any suggestions on which to buy and is there anywhere online that has info on how to mount antennas and what supplies I'll need. I assume I run the coaxial from the antenna straight to my receiver? Also, if I opt against the TERK, I can put the antenna on the lower roof. Anyone using the TERK and would that be my easiest route? Your responses are greatly appreciated.


----------



## DTVDAD

Go over to LNL electronics in Syosset. The guys there will help you with your antenna selection and mounting options. Generally, the higher you go the better when you are installing an antenna. You could try the lower roof, but you will get better results if you go higher.


If you decide the higher roof is best and want an installer call Mike @ A.B.S. Satelitte, at (631) 471-5174 or (516) 383-4277. He is reasonable and does good work. Tell Mike Adam from Huntington recommended him. Good luck!


Best regards, Adam Okula.


----------



## UroDoc

I second the recommendation for LNL in Syosset. I purchased my Channel Master 4248 and a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp from them.


This question may have already been answered in this thread but I haven't been able to locate it.


Exactly what has happened to the NBC signal?? Initially I received NBC with pixelation unless I rotated the antenna about 5-10 degrees from the CBS, Fox location at which point I had a good stable picture. About 3-4 weeks ago I received NO signal from the CBS/Fox antenna orientation but still received a stable picture if I rotated the antenna. For the last 2-3 weeks I am unable to receive any signal from NBC regardless of the antenna location!!


Have they just been turning DOWN their power???? I am only 25 miles from the ESB and I can receive all of the other channels (except WNET). I receive WPIX which is a reportedly weak signal but NOTHING from NBC which I previously received.


----------



## JeffPatt




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *I second the recommendation for LNL in Syosset. I purchased my Channel Master 4248 and a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp from them.
> 
> 
> This question may have already been answered in this thread but I haven't been able to locate it.
> 
> 
> Exactly what has happened to the NBC signal?? Initially I received NBC with pixelation unless I rotated the antenna about 5-10 degrees from the CBS, Fox location at which point I had a good stable picture. About 3-4 weeks ago I received NO signal from the CBS/Fox antenna orientation but still received a stable picture if I rotated the antenna. For the last 2-3 weeks I am unable to receive any signal from NBC regardless of the antenna location!!
> 
> 
> Have they just been turning DOWN their power???? I am only 25 miles from the ESB and I can receive all of the other channels (except WNET). I receive WPIX which is a reportedly weak signal but NOTHING from NBC which I previously received.*



This is exactly what happened to me! I'm in Tenafly, which is only about 5 miles from the GWB. I used to get NBC in the 80-90s now nothing. I have shiffted the antenna and I can get NBC in the 40s, but the other stations degrade.


The strange thing is my friend also lives in Tenafly, but at a lower elevation. We both have the same Radio Shack antenna and Sony HD-100 receiver, however he gets all the stations including WNBC (signal in the high 80's). The only thing I can think of is I have a lot more higher trees surrounding my antenna, should that make a difference?


Also, if I'm only getting WNBC in the 10-20s, will a pre-amp make a difference?


Thanks,


Jeff


----------



## wward

.Anyone notice the big bump up in signal strengths last night with the New York digital locals? WABC-DT was in the seventies for me it has never been at that level for me ever.


Even picked up WLIW-DT even though it doesn't matter now with no HD content available anymore


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *.Anyone notice the big bump up in signal strengths last night with the New York digital locals? WABC-DT was in the seventies for me it has never been at that level for me ever.
> 
> 
> Even picked up WLIW-DT even though it doesn't matter now with no HD content available anymore*



I too noticed an increase in 7-1's SS on one of my CM4228's as well as 4-1 on the same antenna....both of which were usually somewhat skittish since the leaves came in. On that same antenna I also picked up 21-1....3. Yet the "higher" CM4228 I have feeding 2 other TV's facing in "roughly" the same direction didn't get a viable signal on 21-1:3.


Guess it just proves that antenna heights and placement WILL affect the signal you receive.....


Was it a good weekend for Tropo benefits.......as I haven't checked the Hepburn index in quite some time.


----------



## Infominister

Can anyone recommend an antenna installer in northern Westchester? I'd like to get someone who specializes in OTA digital TV reception problems, rather than a satellite installer who may never have done OTA broadcast. Feel free to PM.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *I too noticed an increase in 7-1's SS on one of my CM4228's as well as 4-1 on the same antenna....both of which were usually somewhat skittish since the leaves came in. On that same antenna I also picked up 21-1....3. Yet the "higher" CM4228 I have feeding 2 other TV's facing in "roughly" the same direction didn't get a viable signal on 21-1:3.
> 
> 
> Guess it just proves that antenna heights and placement WILL affect the signal you receive.....
> 
> 
> Was it a good weekend for Tropo benefits.......as I haven't checked the Hepburn index in quite some time.*



For me mostly Sunday into this morning was pretty decent. I also picked up a chnnel 53-1 not sure where its coming from its a Telefutura station.


Thursday & Fridays forecast looks pretty good. Tonights is ok.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *For me mostly Sunday into this morning was pretty decent. I also picked up a chnnel 53-1 not sure where its coming from its a Telefutura station.
> 
> 
> Thursday & Fridays forecast looks pretty good. Tonights is ok.*



Ah yes, I forgot about the Telefutura channel......I'm been receiving that one (along with the PAX channel) for a decent amount of time.....ironic that those 2 channels come in crystal clear and solid as a rock.....yet the flagship station of a certain unnamed Television network (*cough--Peacock*) is an issue for so many in the area.....


----------



## neo0285

Its strange for me. I get NBC in about 70-75 range, no problem, but i cant tune in wb11 at all, my signal is in the teens. BTW im on the queens\\long island border


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by neo0285_
> *Its strange for me. I get NBC in about 70-75 range, no problem, but i cant tune in wb11 at all, my signal is in the teens. BTW im on the queens\\long island border*



Same thing here for me. I am in western nassau county and cannot get a sniff of WPIX-DT. There is signal is much too weak, and much too VHF for me. I get all the other stations fine.


Scott


----------



## cmeinck




> Quote:
> I am in western nassau county and cannot get a sniff of WPIX-DT.



What antenna are you using?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cmeinck_
> *What antenna are you using?*



Channel Master 4228 and a Winegard 8270 Preamp.


Scott


----------



## Gary Quiring

Who gets NBC-DT in the Monmouth County, NJ area and what is your antenna? My signal bounces from 15-35.


----------



## sangs

Did anyone else in the NJ area (Essex, Passaic counties specifically) have any issues with CBS last night? I noticed some minor breakups during the four comedies which I watched live, and then when I went to watch CSI Miami this morning on my HD Tivo, the breakups were awful. I know we were blanketed by a heavy, heavy mist last night, so I'm hoping that was the issue.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sangs_
> *Did anyone else in the NJ area (Essex, Passaic counties specifically) have any issues with CBS last night? I noticed some minor breakups during the four comedies which I watched live, and then when I went to watch CSI Miami this morning on my HD Tivo, the breakups were awful. I know we were blanketed by a heavy, heavy mist last night, so I'm hoping that was the issue.*



I'm in Middlesex and I had some dropouts that I noticed more during CSI:Miami then I did during the comedies....but I did see what I'd call "shmearing" of greens during Raymond. There were "Freezes" during CSI:.....but when I checked my signal strength RIGHT after seeing them my E86's had the signal at 100%.....so I don't know what was going on.


But, I have noticed this before on CBS's primetime programming....but I always attribute it to my STB more than anything else.


----------



## neo0285

I have a simple stealth antenna, and i get all the channels strong including nbc at 75, but wpix is lost cause. I even put up a huge directional antenna, and my results were the same, so i put the stealth back up again, cause it is much smaller and better looking. That little stealth aint half bad.


----------



## fourthstooge

Had problems with both CBS OTA and D* feed. About midway into CSI the D* feed went black for about 15-20 seconds, could have been longer. When it came back, it jumped and stuttered for at least 5 minutes resulting in audio going severely out of sync. OTA had frequent freezes and drops.


Very frustrating that I couldn't rely on the D* feed to back up the OTA.


----------



## Paperboy2003

Since Im completly lazy, and haven't kept up on things, does anyone have an update on the combiner? We still talking June or have they pushed it out again and now looking at November or something??


Thanks


Doug


----------



## michaelk

depends...


which November are you talking about?










seriosly- latest answer was sometime between june and september if i recall- was in the last page or 2.


----------



## Infominister

I understand that the folks at WNBC are trying very hard to get it going at least in time to broadcast the Olympics in HD.


----------



## Raiden915

its currently 11:35PM and i was surfin thru the OVA channels and i was pleasently suprised to see something new! it was about sand dunes and it looked pretty cool. i was expecting that annoying touring nj program, but i hope they dont loop that sand dunes show. it seems that pbs hd will finally be back







did anyone else see it?


----------



## harican




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Raiden915_
> *its currently 11:35PM and i was surfin thru the OVA channels and i was pleasently suprised to see something new! it was about sand dunes and it looked pretty cool. i was expecting that annoying touring nj program, but i hope they dont loop that sand dunes show. it seems that pbs hd will finally be back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did anyone else see it?*




The NJN website has been pretty good with updating information about their high definition services.


I knew they would be back on 5/19/04 for quite a while.

http://www.njn.net/digital


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> Who gets NBC-DT in the Monmouth County, NJ area and what is your antenna? My signal bounces from 15-35.



Gary, I live in West Keansburg and I get NBC-DT no problem! I get all the DT channels out of NY: WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WNBC-SD, WNYW-DT, WWOR-DT, WABC-HD, WABC-SD, WPXN-DT, all NJN, 2 Spanish stations, WTBY and WLIB (SP) out of Long Island. The only channel I don't get is WPIX-DT. I have a CM 4228 in the attic and I live about 7 blocks from the bay where I can see the Manhattan skyline so my path is pretty direct.


Tony


----------



## MLM

I was pleasantly surprised to get the WNJN digital stations in Bayside this evening. Tried it after seeing the recent post. A few minor breakups, but nothing I can't live with. Didn't think I'd get it this far away with a CM3022 on a cape. Hope it stays that way.


----------



## Greg G

NBC-DT comes in very well for me in Highlands. I get mid 80s for signal on my DH DirectTivo.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Greg G_
> *NBC-DT comes in very well for me in Highlands. I get mid 80s for signal on my DH DirectTivo.*



I would guess because your are in the Highlands you have some elevation that helps receive the signal. What is your antenna setup?


----------



## jcondon

Since Thursday night I have had much trouble with NBC. I was getting upper 50s low 60s with some small drop outs. Now I am lucky to get a semi stable 40.


Wed night I think I was actually getting low 70s.


I will wait a while before I climb up on my roof though. I seriously doubt my antenna moved or anything. Perhaps they lowered their power even more or something? Maybe the combiner will be done soon and that will put an end to my NBC problems. With most shows over till the fall its just not that big a priority to get NBC going again.


I am just North of White Plains, NY.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I would guess because your are in the Highlands you have some elevation that helps receive the signal. What is your antenna setup?*


----------



## ken34

I don't really watch PAX but I can receive WPXN-DT Ch 30 very well in northeast Queens. The only problem is no audio. According to the station info on my DTC 100, all the other stations are using Dolby Digital but WPXN is not. I'm curious if anybody else is getting audio from WPXN-DT.


Thanks, Ken


----------



## Jonathann_K

Hi guys -


Thanks for all this wonderful information. I am moving to the 30th floor of a highrise on the Upper East Side, 70th and York, with decent south-west views. I have an indoor Silver Sensor and a Samsung TS160. Will I be able to pull in OTA HD channels to any effect? Will I need a preamp? I am including a picture of the view from my window -


Thanks!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ken34_
> *I don't really watch PAX but I can receive WPXN-DT Ch 30 very well in northeast Queens. The only problem is no audio. According to the station info on my DTC 100, all the other stations are using Dolby Digital but WPXN is not. I'm curious if anybody else is getting audio from WPXN-DT.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ken*



Call them (if you can) and ask what kind of audio they're using, and what kind of PSIP. Are they remapping to 31-1 on all receivers?


I say this because my PBS station had a similar problem when they first signed on in May 2003. They had video on 3-2, but the audio was in MPEG instead of ATSC/53 (that's what my Hauppauge WinTV-D told me anyway) and so the only tuner in the whole 80-mile coverage area that could get audio was my WinTV-D. All other tuners showed 3-2 with video but no audio.


After they started sending out PSIP in September 2003, it mapped to 15-1 as it should with audio.


- Trip


----------



## bjohn

I get audio without any problems on PAX.


I find it surprising that PAX, and the 2 spanish stations are pretty par on HDTV with better than decent signals, but the major networks aren't!




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ken34_
> *I don't really watch PAX but I can receive WPXN-DT Ch 30 very well in northeast Queens. The only problem is no audio. According to the station info on my DTC 100, all the other stations are using Dolby Digital but WPXN is not. I'm curious if anybody else is getting audio from WPXN-DT.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ken*


----------



## cmeinck

I am about 38 miles from the signals and decided to go with a Winegard Square Shooter. The decision appears to be a good one, since the D* installer left the mounts when he moved my dish to a higher location. I don't get much in terms of reception, but fed it into a TV Distribution amp (with FM Trap(. I bought it years ago to boost my cable reception. I'm able to get FOX, ABC, UPN, but I'm getting some dropout on ABC. When I click on the satellite meter, it seems to be fluctuating. I'm thinking that I need a preamp that is made for this sole purpose. Any suggestions? Is there something I can pick up at a local Radio Shack. I'd rather avoid the online retailers, since I might return it if it doesn't work. I'm hoping this will put over the top and give me solid normal reception. Thanks for all your help.


One more note... the coaxial didn't fit into the SquareShooter because it was too fat, so I have another coaxial running from the SS to a splitter and then running my 100 ft coaxial into the house. Could this be the cause?


----------



## Swisher




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jonathann_K_
> *Hi guys -
> 
> 
> Thanks for all this wonderful information. I am moving to the 30th floor of a highrise on the Upper East Side, 70th and York, with decent south-west views. I have an indoor Silver Sensor and a Samsung TS160. Will I be able to pull in OTA HD channels to any effect? Will I need a preamp? I am including a picture of the view from my window -
> 
> 
> Thanks!*



Yes, I would think that at that height and distance you should have no problem getting everything from ESB and Times Square with a Silver Sensor.


----------



## ken34

Thanks all for the info on the NYC PAX Ch 30 and my audio problem. I usually leave the program guides turned off but I tried rescanning with the guides on and off and still no audio. I've had the DTC 100 for several years and never had this problem with all the stations that have come on here.


As I said, it doesn't really matter since I don't really watch PAX, but I still like to see things working right. My complaint has been made indirectly to WPXN and I'm told nothing will be done because nobody else is complaining. Either nobody else has the problem or nobody else is watching either.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ken34_
> *I don't really watch PAX but I can receive WPXN-DT Ch 30 very well in northeast Queens. The only problem is no audio. According to the station info on my DTC 100, all the other stations are using Dolby Digital but WPXN is not. I'm curious if anybody else is getting audio from WPXN-DT.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ken*



I don't have that problem here in Bayside. The audio is fine. Except there's nothing there I care to hear (or see).


----------



## Alan Malka

Ken34,


I tuned into WPXN-DT using the Zenith HDR230 and I got audio. I pressed the button to display the program information banner and saw that there were multiple audio signals to choose from. (Two altogether; both labeled as English.) When I selected the second one, I got no audio. Any possibility that your receiver is tuning into the second audio signal?


----------



## ken34

Thanks all again regarding my audio problem with WPXN-DT. The DTC 100 allows audio selection for the optical output only. I'm using the left/right analog outputs. The DTC 100 was a pioneer ota receiver and I guess wants to see Dolby Digital audio. I guess the newer tuners can adapt to what the station is doing. All I know is I have no trouble with the other stations and never have. When I want something on PAX, not much, I'll just tune to Ch31.


Ken


----------



## harican

you just need to select another audio option.


Do this by obtaining your info banner and clicking on the speaker icon, far button to the right. The audio name changes to English3 (Dolby Digital)and you now have sound.



The problem is when you first go to this channel the audio defaults to English2 (Stereo)


----------



## ilkevinli

Is anyone else having audio problems with WNBC-DT tonight ??


----------



## ken34

Hello Harican,


Thanks. I tried your suggestion and I do get Dolby Digital audio but it sounds distorted. Also, when I switch channels, I'm back to where I started and have to select the audio all over. I guess there's a way to lock in that audio mode but it's useless if it's distorted. I guess WPXN is not using Dolby Digital as their main audio channel. Anyway, I've never had to do this before so it's interesting to learn something new about the DTC 100.


Ken


----------



## jcondon

I have had problems since Thursday. I used to get 60s. Now lucky to lock at all.


Wed I think I was 70s for a short bit.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ilkevinli_
> *Is anyone else having audio problems with WNBC-DT tonight ??*


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ilkevinli_
> *Is anyone else having audio problems with WNBC-DT tonight ??*



I was getting rythmic audio dropouts on my HDTivo. I just don't know if this was just the Tivo or something on NBC's end.


----------



## sting0r

Anyone know the latest update on the combiner? I looked a few pages back, but didn't see anything. It's almost June, I hope they finally meet on of the target dates!!


----------



## Infominister

May not be June, but I know they're working very hard to boost power on WNBC-DT for the Olympics.


----------



## pjwinstalls

When this combiner is finally done, will us about 45 miles out on long island still have to use these large aerials like the CM 4228 or will the stealth antennas work?


Any ideas??


Thanks


Philip


----------



## jcondon

Since Thursday I can no longer get WNBC-DT I was getting 60s with some drop outs. Wed I think I was getting 70s actually but, since then it almost never locks and is very weak 0-40 most of the time. Anyone else experiencing this?


The other channels I get still come in fine. Just WNBC-DT all of a sudden.


I am 5 miles North West of White Plains using a Square Shooter with a CM7777 preamp. Get low 90s for WCBS and 80s for Fox and 70s for WABC. Get a few other channels like PAX as well.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *May not be June, but I know they're working very hard to boost power on WNBC-DT for the Olympics.*


----------



## sting0r

I thought the latest is that it would be done in june, not may. Either way, anyone have any update? Are they still working on it?



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *May not be June, but I know they're working very hard to boost power on WNBC-DT for the Olympics.*


----------



## Rich11




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sting0r_
> *I thought the latest is that it would be done in june, not may. Either way, anyone have any update? Are they still working on it?*



Re this combiner, in addition to not getting a good signal from NBC, I get nothing at all from WPIX (11.1). Will this be part of combiner?


Separate question, I seem to get SD for UPN on 5.2, on my HDTIVo. Is that all there is for UPN (Chan 9)? NO HD.


Finally, not getting any source of HD for PBS. I am Northern Westchester (Armonk) any recommendations? I'm getting strong 2.1, 5.1, and 7.1


----------



## slocko

I pretty much gave up trying to get NBC. There seem to be large trees at the 30 degree orientation from my house and I can't get the antenna high enough on my own. Or maybe I am doing something wrong.


I went to TitanTV and it said the channel orientation was 30 degress. I also looked at the distribution diagram and it showed NBC about NE from my house. I point the squareshooter in that direction using a compass. I also played with the tilt but didn't see much difference.


What I don't understand is that my indoor antenna caught a whiff of NBC last week when they were adjusting the channel. Or maybe the wind was blowing outside? If NBC boosts the strength, would that help it penetrate the trees?


I am going to give up for now. If Direct hasn't added it to the lineup by the time the Apprentice begins, then I will bite the bullet and get an installer to put one on the roof. I think I can clear the trees from the roof.


----------



## vinnyv07

I feel the same way slocko. I give up trying to get NBc. I think and hope that they will have the combiner done for the olympics and if not then the new fall season.


----------



## KenA

The combiner will increase the power of a few of the stations. CBS and Fox are already at full power at the ESB, so you should expect similar reception quality for all stations involved in the combiner project when (if) its completed. I believe the stations involved are WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WWOR, WPIX, WNYW, and PBS-13.


----------



## Infominister

More specifically, since WCBS-DT is the "host" for the combiner, whatever signal strength you're currently receiving on Channel 56 should be pretty much the benchmark for the others that will be combined. The only difference should be natural variations linked to the broadcaster's frequency, e.g. Channel 28 vs. Channel 61.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *I believe the stations involved are WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WWOR, WPIX, WNYW, and PBS-13.*



Correct except for WNYW, which has its own antenna at Empire and is not part of the combiner project.


----------



## jcondon

Will WWOR then be in HD? Will they have their own channel / frequency instead of piggy backing on Fox?



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *Correct except for WNYW which has its own antenna at Empire and is not part of the combiner project.*


----------



## Infominister

*Will WWOR then be in HD? Will they have their own channel / frequency instead of piggy backing on Fox?*


I believe so.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *Will WWOR then be in HD? Will they have their own channel / frequency instead of piggy backing on Fox?*



Actually, the FCC records show WWOR-DT has a 170 kW STA (that's about half of WCBS-DT if I recall correctly) but it's not on the air yet.


- Trip


----------



## jcondon

Or about 16x the power of WNBC-DT.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *Actually, the FCC records show WWOR-DT has a 170 kW STA (that's about half of WCBS-DT if I recall correctly) but it's not on the air yet.
> 
> 
> - Trip*


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *Will they have their own channel / frequency instead of piggy backing on Fox?*



WWOR-DT will be channel 38.


----------



## ilkevinli

Thanks Ken. I have the HD Tivo and was having the same exact problem with the audio. Wanted to make sure it wasnt the equipment.







Seems to be ok now.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *I was getting rythmic audio dropouts on my HDTivo. I just don't know if this was just the Tivo or something on NBC's end.*


----------



## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *I was getting rythmic audio dropouts on my HDTivo. I just don't know if this was just the Tivo or something on NBC's end.*



I watched "L&O: Criminal Intent" last night, recorded from Sunday, on my HDTivo and apparently had the same problem Sunday. When I changed the receiver to use the analog signal, the audio was fine.


Sunday was really the only day since last Wednesday that I've been able to get a solid picture on WNBC-DT on my HDTivo. I don't think that it's the Tivo's problem because, when I tested, I couldn't get any picture at all using my Hughes HTL-HD. So actually, the HDTivo is working better than my standard HD receiver.


----------



## KenA

I get the NBC audio problem on my HiPix, Dish 6000, and Cablevision SA 4200HD, so I doubt its the HDTiVo. NBC has some problems with their digital audio feed.


----------



## boylan13

I've seen multiple references to this "combiner" project. Is there a thread that describes more about it? Specifically, I'd really like to get Channel 13 (PBS) in HD. Would have liked to see Colonial House in HD, but it's not one of the channels I can get in HD from Astoria, Queens (around 2 miles line of sight from ESB). I'm getting NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX and UPN fine in HD (Leno looks awesome on NBC as does CSI on CBS).


Will PBS be part of this project? And when will this combiner thingy be live? Anyone??


Thanks,


-Chris


----------



## LINDELLTOM

CHRIS, the joke going around about channel 13 HD, six people living on the same street in Newark are the only ones getting 13 inHD. Don't hold your breath, they pulled the plug on WLIW HD about a month ago, don't send them any money.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> the joke going around about channel 13 HD, six people living on the same street in Newark are the only ones getting 13 inHD. Don't hold your breath, they pulled the plug on WLIW HD about a month ago, don't send them any money.



Did anybody notice last night 5/25 that NJN-HD was not showing that "Tour NJ' Loop but a full schedule? I hope this continues because I was watching this travel show show that just looked stunning!


Tony


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by boylan13_
> *I've seen multiple references to this "combiner" project. Is there a thread that describes more about it? Specifically, I'd really like to get Channel 13 (PBS) in HD. Would have liked to see Colonial House in HD, but it's not one of the channels I can get in HD from Astoria, Queens (around 2 miles line of sight from ESB). I'm getting NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX and UPN fine in HD (Leno looks awesome on NBC as does CSI on CBS).
> 
> 
> Will PBS be part of this project? And when will this combiner thingy be live? Anyone??
> 
> *



Here's a recent post from NBC engineer George Thompson here about the combiner antenna for the Empire State Building possibly arriving late this month. (Click search-this-thread above to locate his other posts.) NYC delays are notorious. This antenna, AFAIK, will integrate the scattered antenna sites for all of the major NYC HD stations, including WNET-DT (PBS). This station now beams a weak signal (61 UHF?) generally toward Newark, N.J. and very few receive it OTA.


Caught snippets of Colonial House over several days, and while it often looks very good, a post in the programming forum recently points out it's actually a widescreen SD program, upconverted to 1080i, not true 1080i. Found myself fooled by a similar PBS upconvert a few months back.

-- John


----------



## Rich11




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by boylan13_
> *I've seen multiple references to this "combiner" project. Is there a thread that describes more about it? Specifically, I'd really like to get Channel 13 (PBS) in HD. Would have liked to see Colonial House in HD, but it's not one of the channels I can get in HD from Astoria, Queens (around 2 miles line of sight from ESB). I'm getting NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX and UPN fine in HD (Leno looks awesome on NBC as does CSI on CBS).
> 
> 
> Will PBS be part of this project? And when will this combiner thingy be live? Anyone??
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> -Chris*



Re UPN- You are getting it as HD? What is station code?


----------



## Infominister

And FOX? Didn't know they had gone HD yet?


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s236_
> *Did anybody notice last night 5/25 that NJN-HD was not showing that "Tour NJ' Loop but a full schedule? I hope this continues because I was watching this travel show show that just looked stunning!
> 
> 
> Tony*



Yeah, I saw last night 'American Family'. Very nice presentation. You can find the schedule here


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *And FOX? Didn't know they had gone HD yet?*



They haven't. However, they present some shows in FOX-WideScreen (480p 16:9). FOX will go HD in the fall.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rich11_
> *Re UPN- You are getting it as HD? What is station code?*



UPN (A.K.A WWOR) is not HD in our area. However, they can be seen under 5-2 with an OTA antenna.


----------



## slocko

was American Idol broadcast at 480p last night? i noticed there were no bars last night.


----------



## Swisher




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *was American Idol broadcast at 480p last night? i noticed there were no bars last night.*



Yes, it was.


As for the Combiner Project, I thought WABC was out of it since they put up their own HUGE antenna in Times Square...didn't have the patience for the mess at ESB. Are they moving back to ESB when that is ready? Didn't think they'd spend all that money for such a short time period.


----------



## Infominister

Yes, they are moving back to the ESB. The Conde Nast tower will serve as their back-up and, I think, for radio broadcast.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *was American Idol broadcast at 480p last night? i noticed there were no bars last night.*



Yes, read all about it American Idol from the Kodak is in 16:9


----------



## Anthony in NYC

Someone pointed out in another post that WNYW is going to be the East Feed for DirecTV when they add FOX. However, this will not occur until FOX goes HD. If WNYW going HD is dependent on the combiner being completed boy are there going to be some angry DirecTV Subscribers because it seems that the combiner is going nowhere


----------



## SnellKrell

Anthony -


DirecTV's feed of WNYW (Fox-East) has nothing to do with the combiner or over-the-air transmission. DirecTV, same ownership/management as Fox, will get the signal directly from WNYW before it is sent to the ESB for transmission - this is the way DirecTV gets ABC, CBS, NBC and all the local New York channels.


Gary


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *UPN (A.K.A WWOR) is not HD in our area. However, they can be seen under 5-2 with an OTA antenna.*



It can be seen on 5-2, but is not HD. I watched Enterprise last week for the first time on 5-2, the picture quality was terrible.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Yeah, I saw last night 'American Family'. Very nice presentation. You can find the schedule here *



Yes they just started that this past Monday. Interesting how now all five channels are being broadcast as opposed to just the two SD channels and the one HD channel like before.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *Someone pointed out in another post that WNYW is going to be the East Feed for DirecTV when they add FOX. However, this will not occur until FOX goes HD. If WNYW going HD is dependent on the combiner being completed boy are there going to be some angry DirecTV Subscribers because it seems that the combiner is going nowhere*



All of the local stations that are carried on DirecTv as part of the local stations package send their signals (primarily via fiber) to DirecTv''s closest local receive facility, they can be found in major cities throughout the US.


From there DirecTv begins the process of bringing the local signal into your home. Point being that the combiner project, Freedom Tower etc.. has no bearing on distribution of network feeds be it HD or SD to DirecTv customers.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *It can be seen on 5-2, but is not HD. I watched Enterprise last week for the first time on 5-2, the picture quality was terrible.*



Didn't I say that ?


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Didn't I say that ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



OOPs I missed the 'NOT'.


----------



## seaford

Stanley cup finals on ABC. Looks pretty good with just a few drop outs.

My signal is jumping between 36 & 63 % NBC is hovering around 20% and channel 11 is non-existant. I usually get a good signal on 11 so go figure.

2 & 5 are the usual steady 77%.


----------



## cmeinck

I usually get a good signal from ABC, but had get a ladder out to physically move the dish. My reception was hovering on the brink of bad and normal. For the most part, it became watchable. I'm using a Winegard Square Shooter plugged into a Cable Distribution Amp. Thinking about getting a Channel Master pre-amp and removing the CBA. Any thoughts?


----------



## vinnyv07

Any waivers being handed out by Fox in NY? I have Directv and would love the West coast feed of Fox by the football season. Anyone get one in NY from Fox? I know from this forum that CBS says no to everyone....but does Fox have the same response?


----------



## Robert Packman

Just a follow up,my trees have filled in (all around ,many) and i still have good OTA reception in NYC area using a 4228


----------



## cmeinck

Can anyone provide any tips on how to ground my antenna? I'm using a Square Shooter and the coaxial is running from the antenna into my receiver. I'm going to add a Channel Master 7777 to improve my reception. I teeter between the low end of normal and mid-range normal. Only receiving ABC and FOX (which doesn't count for much).


Thanks in advance.


----------



## dm145

Hockey not in HD OTA 7-1?


----------



## jcondon

It was not in HD a few mins ago but, is now.


Perhaps someone woke up and flipped the switch?


----------



## John Chu

Well...today is June 1st.


I know this has been asked repeatedly...but any new news?


How about a recap about the State of the OTA for the NYC Area?


How close are we to seeing the combiner being ready?


Any new information?


Right now...I get CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX and UPN.


I can't really get WB via WPIX....


So what happens when the combiner is up..


I should be able to get WPIX better....and UPN will be HD right...


Anything else to look forward to?


C'mon, anybody with inside info...spill it!


----------



## sting0r

It would be great to hear from that engineer guy, sorry I forget your name, but I believe he works for NBC...


----------



## s236

His name is George Thompson.


Tony


----------



## George Thompson

Shhhhh,

Dont say that too loud or my phone will start to ring again...lol.

The last I heard at a SMPTE meeting from one of the engineering vp's (who is probably running the project) is that they expected the combiner to be delivered about now and that antenna work was still being done in preparation. However, Leona blocked the move of a radio station that was needed for the hardware. Alternate location was being sought near that room.

I'll let you know if I hear anything else.

George


----------



## George Thompson

For those of you in the industry and interested in the latest in HD editing, register for the June SMPTE meeting here.
http://www.mte.com/nysmpte/meetings/mtg0406.htm 

I recently completed the AVID Unity networking and administration course and find myself in graphics and ediing networking more and more.

GT


----------



## Scott G

WNYW-DT is broadcasting in 720p tonight !!


This would be big news, because it would mean channel 5 is making the transition to HD. We will have to see it on Thursday to see if they were testing this format or they are going to be broadcasting in 720p from now on.


I have Cablevision and OTA and I am picking up WNYW-DT in 720p on both setups.



Scott


----------



## Alan Malka

That's great news! Can't wait till football season starts!


----------



## trekkerj

Scott, how can you tell with your setup that's it's 720p? Both my OTA box and 4200HD are set to output 1080i, so I wouldn't notice the difference.


Anyway, this is pretty much in line with what they were saying about doing the switch over after sweeps. I wonder when we will see the first FOX hd broadcasts. Maybe the Casino reality show this summer?


----------



## Scott G

In the initial setup of the 4200HD I have the 720p selected as an acceptable format. I then have the box set to variable so it outputs the channel in native format. It shows a flag at the bottom of the screen telling you what format it is in. Tonight it says "normal 720p" on channel 5.


OTA I have VOOM which has a variable setting to output in native format. It usually outputs WNYW-DT in 480p. Tonight it is outputting it in 720p for the first time.


Scott


----------



## cmeinck




> Quote:
> Anyway, this is pretty much in line with what they were saying about doing the switch over after sweeps. I wonder when we will see the first FOX hd broadcasts. Maybe the Casino reality show this summer?



When are the sweeps?


Perhaps, we'll see North Shore in HD. FOX has been heavily promoting this show.


----------



## bitkeeper




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *WNYW-DT is broadcasting in 720p tonight !!
> 
> 
> This would be big news, because it would mean channel 5 is making the transition to HD. We will have to see it on Thursday to see if they were testing this format or they are going to be broadcasting in 720p from now on.
> 
> 
> I have Cablevision and OTA and I am picking up WNYW-DT in 720p on both setups.
> 
> 
> 
> Scott*



Scott,

WNYW DT will remain at 720p from now on.


----------



## MLM

For the last several nights WNJN seems to be broadcasting carrier waves, but no pictures. I receive a signal at level 5 which is usually enough to get a good picture, but the screen is blank. Anybody else have similar reception?


----------



## jcondon

WCBS-DT


Last night my signal went from 90s to less then 50s


This morning its back into the low 70s with some drop outs.


CBS was ALWAYS my strongest station. No matter what antenna I tried it came in the best and strongest by far.


A few weeks ago WNBC-DT went from upper 60s to 40-50 and unwatchable.


I get fox and abc in the 70s pretty solid.


Any idea what is going on with CBS and NBC for me? NBC has been 'out' for 3 weeks now and now it looks like CBS is going away too. Is my antenna or receiver faulty? I have a DirecTV HR10-250 with a Square Shooter Antenna and CM7777 preamp about 10 miles North West of White Plains.


When I complained about NBC three weeks ago here no one else spoke up so I am starting to wonder if it is just me.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *For the last several nights WNJN seems to be broadcasting carrier waves, but no pictures. I receive a signal at level 5 which is usually enough to get a good picture, but the screen is blank. Anybody else have similar reception?*



Yes, I see the same. No pictures on PBS-DT.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *WCBS-DT
> 
> 
> Last night my signal went from 90s to less then 50s
> 
> 
> This morning its back into the low 70s with some drop outs.
> 
> 
> CBS was ALWAYS my strongest station. No matter what antenna I tried it came in the best and strongest by far.
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago WNBC-DT went from upper 60s to 40-50 and unwatchable.
> 
> 
> I get fox and abc in the 70s pretty solid.
> 
> 
> Any idea what is going on with CBS and NBC for me? NBC has been 'out' for 3 weeks now and now it looks like CBS is going away too. Is my antenna or receiver faulty? I have a DirecTV HR10-250 with a Square Shooter Antenna and CM7777 preamp about 10 miles North West of White Plains.
> 
> 
> When I complained about NBC three weeks ago here no one else spoke up so I am starting to wonder if it is just me.*



I'm seeing the same problem. CBS has lowered its power. I'm able to lock it but I get pixelation from time to time. Lately, I've been using the DirecTV East Coast feed to watch a show I don't want to miss.


NBC is a problem for most people here. Very hard to lock this channel and if you do, you lose the other channels since NBC signal is not coming from the same direction as the other channels.


----------



## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *A few weeks ago WNBC-DT went from upper 60s to 40-50 and unwatchable.
> 
> *



This is the same for me right near the Nassau/Suffolk borderline. I've received WNBC-DT fine ever since they went on air. Now it's either all breakups or no picture at all. This is true for all of my HD receivers


Oddly enough, the reception must have been pretty good this past Sunday night. My Tivo recorded "L&O: Criminal Intent" on 4-1 Sunday night. On Tuesday when I went to see whether I should just delete the recording, I was amazed to see that the picture was perfect. I watched it and it remained perfect throughout the entire show.


----------



## jcondon

Thanks for the feed back on nbc and cbs. I wont waste my time climbing up on the roof and trying to get a better signal then.


I too also record mostly CBS-HD off of DirecTV too but, use it as my benchmark since I was getting 90 to 92. Figure as long as I get that its just the other stations working on their signal. But, when it went to pot I got a bit worried with all the crappy weather lately.


I also record both NBC-SD DirecTV and NBC-HD OTA on any shows that I wish to see if there is no conflict. Last 3 weeks other then the occasional program NBC-HD OTA has been unwatchable.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *I also record..NBC-HD OTA on any shows that I wish to see if there is no conflict. Last 3 weeks other then the occasional program NBC-HD OTA has been unwatchable.*



How's that Winegard GS2000A working out for you?


----------



## jcondon

Long story short the antenna jack is a bit loose. I was not able to get the antenna cable screwed on as tightly as I would like. I tried to open it and see if the wires needed to be re soldered but, it looked like the plastic tabs would just break off so I never got it open. One day when I have sometime I will look at it again and see if I can't get it open and secure the jack. Maybe with some epoxy or something. I am using the mast with my Square Shooter though.


The way I have it mounted and the way it points the back end of the GS2000a would be hanging over the chimney. So I could not really use it in my situation without some major hassles. I could put another chimney mount strap on towards the front of the chimney and that would probably clear just fine. Or I could move the satellite mount towards the front but, did not want to mess with the chimney straps / mount.


It was not getting a strong signal with it mounted where it would fit so I decided to try a Square Shooter with a store credit I had. It worked better but, not great. Turns out I had to move the antenna about 3 feet closer to the front of the house. All I had to do was loosen the mast and rotate it so the bend went towards the front of the house. Two trees were partially blocking the signal when the wind blew. CBS was strong enough that it didn't cut out but, the others would cut out.


I was able to get CBS and FOX and I think PAX. But, nothing for NBC or ABC. Some signal no lock. So I also added a CM7777 preamp. I was able to lock NBC for a couple weeks with a few drop outs per hour. ABC and Fox works pretty good with the setup I have now.



Thanks,

Jim


----------



## George Thompson

Loose connectors are a no no. Go up there immediately and tighten the fitting then wrap it in electrical tape for a good weather tight seal. Oxidation kills more antenna connections than about anything else. At UHF frequencies good conductors are vital.

Anyone else having similar problems, check your connectors. I can remember potting connections so that would not happen.

GT


----------



## jcondon

I think you misunderstand. I did not use the antenna partially because of the loose connection. And partially because it would not work well were I could easily mount it. The antenna with the loose connection is in my garage awaiting repair. I just can not get it open without breaking the plastic tabs. Which I might have to do and then wrap case back closed with Duct Tape (Same color almost as the antenna). My current antenna was working great with all connections secure. Just NBC has faded and last night CBS. But, apparently it isn't just me.


I think my main problem is CBS lowered their power and NBC well who knows why all of a sudden I can not get much there but, maybe before the fall the combiner might be done. Or maybe DirecTV will add NBC in HD.


Over the summer I don't think I am missing much without NBC in HD. Or perhaps leaves have filled in even more (I don't think so) on the two trees that were causing me a problem initially. Which will probably clear itself in time (or close) for the Fall season anyway.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Loose connectors are a no no. Go up there immediately and tighten the fitting then wrap it in electrical tape for a good weather tight seal. Oxidation kills more antenna connections than about anything else. At UHF frequencies good conductors are vital.
> 
> 
> GT*


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *Over the summer I don't think I am missing much without NBC in HD.*



Except for the Olympics! I sure hope they have the combiner done by then.


----------



## jcondon

Well I don't even watch the Olympics so I think I am safe.










If I can get it in HD I might check it out when there is nothing else on I want to watch.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> For the last several nights WNJN seems to be broadcasting carrier waves, but no pictures. I receive a signal at level 5 which is usually enough to get a good picture, but the screen is blank. Anybody else have similar reception?



Same here!


----------



## dm145

I gave up on pbs out of nj. They rarely broadcast and when they do it does not match the guide.


----------



## skyhawk223

It could be worse. WLIW (21) in Long Island gave up on HD broadcasts on their digital channel.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s236_
> *Same here!*



Just curious what channel number are you referring to? I have not seen any problems with NJN digital. I watch 52-1 (digital 43).


----------



## Islaine

Just curious, did anyone else out there start swearing when ABC-HD (7-1) switched from HD to 4:3 SD at the start of OVERTIME in Game 5 of the Stanley Cup Finals last night?? I couldn't believe it... I got a brief station logo screen after the last intermission commercials ended, and then when they went back to live coverage, it was no longer in HD. Aaaargh!


At least it's better than the way they messed up Game 4 (ABC, not Tampa Bay!).. one can only hope they get their act more together for tomorrow night's Game 6.


(btw, I am in western Suffolk, and NONE of Game 4 came OTA in HD for me... boy was I irked...)


----------



## trekkerj

The 720p hockey coverage PQ isn't that great anyway. At least the hockey wasn't. MNF looks much better.


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Islaine_
> *Just curious, did anyone else out there start swearing when ABC-HD (7-1) switched from HD to 4:3 SD at the start of OVERTIME in Game 5 of the Stanley Cup Finals last night?? I couldn't believe it... I got a brief station logo screen after the last intermission commercials ended, and then when they went back to live coverage, it was no longer in HD. Aaaargh!
> 
> 
> At least it's better than the way they messed up Game 4 (ABC, not Tampa Bay!).. one can only hope they get their act more together for tomorrow night's Game 6.
> 
> 
> (btw, I am in western Suffolk, and NONE of Game 4 came OTA in HD for me... boy was I irked...)*



I freaked out, too. It took them 20 minutes to flip the switch back to HD. Fortunately, they switched in time to catch the exciting finish.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Just curious what channel number are you referring to? I have not seen any problems with NJN digital. I watch 52-1 (digital 43).*



52-1 ?


We get it at 50-5 here in Northern NJ.


----------



## trekkerj

WNJT from Trenton is 52-1 (UHF 43).

WNJN from Montclair is 50-1 ,etc. (UHF 51).


Not sure was 55-5 is...


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *WNJT from Trenton is 52-1 (UHF 43).
> 
> WNJN from Montclair is 50-1 ,etc. (UHF 51).
> 
> 
> Not sure was 55-5 is...*



55 is WLIW from Long Island.


----------



## trekkerj

WLIW is 22. (21-1)


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *WLIW is 22. (21-1)*



Oops ment to say WLNY out of Long Island.


----------



## dturturro

Was I the only one who didn't get WPIX-DT tonight? I TiVo'ed the game hoping to finally enjoy an HD Mets telecast and I see Ch. 11 had a Searching for Signal message. At least I didn't have to suffer through the loss!


----------



## cmeinck

This whole OTA HDTV thing is very frustrating. I purchased Winegard SquareShooter and mounted it last week. The results were pretty poor until I plugged into a Cable Distribution amp. ABC was still poor. So, I changed the angle of the dish and ABC was great. I purchased a Channel Master 7777 and figured this would be the final piece. I modified the angle of the dish at the same time (which might have been a mistake). I'm getting FOX at GOOD. NBC is now showing up in the NORMAL range -- good because this was a tough station for me. ABC goes from GOOD to NORMAL to BAD. It was solid GOOD until I took my ladder down. Now, it's all over the place...jumping between BAD and GOOD. I'm sure my setup is somewhat to blame, but do the stations change the amount of signal being sent?


----------



## bowbie89




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cmeinck_
> *This whole OTA HDTV thing is very frustrating.*



I agree with you somewhat there cmeinck in that this can get very frustrating but I think also alot has to do with the signal strength being sent out. That is why I am not even bothering to get an amplifier until the combiner project is completed to see if I even need one. The only station for me that is not coming in at all is NBC which I don't care about until the Olympics.


It sorta reminds me of that Mel Brooks movie "High Anxiety". The scene where Brooks' assistant is trying to carry his trunk to the car - "I got it..... I got it......{thud}.....I don't got it."


----------



## Robert Packman

Did anyone notice ch 4 was especially bad today for the Belmont..i know it's weak but i usually LOCK today was horrible


----------



## trekkerj

It was shaky via Cable also, so it wasn't a transmission problem.


----------



## Robert Packman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *It was shaky via Cable also, so it wasn't a transmission problem.*



i ended up watching on cable(SD) as well as OTA hd..the HD was loosing signal and freezing (very low signal) where cable had some breakups on a few hand held cameras ..but the ch 4 OTA was real bad


----------



## cmeinck

Today, in my most recent trip to the roof, I installed a Channel Master 7777. ABC's signal is jumping all over the place. I'm not sure if my Square Shooter is facing the wrong way or the preamp is not a good idea. I'm toying with the idea of an antennuator. Any ideas?


Before this, I had a straight line from the SS inside to a VCR Cable Distribution Amp. ABC was solid for me. Not sure if the weather has anyting to do w/ it?


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Robert Packman_
> *Did anyone notice ch 4 was especially bad today for the Belmont..i know it's weak but i usually LOCK today was horrible*



Must be a NJ problem, because it was perfect in NE Queens. Maybe because we're closer to Belmont.


----------



## jcord51




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Robert Packman_
> *Did anyone notice ch 4 was especially bad today for the Belmont..i know it's weak but i usually LOCK today was horrible*



I too am waiting for the combiner project to get up and running. By any chance does anyone know at what degree most channel be firing at, ie. 312 degree?


----------



## vinnyv07

Nobody I know in my area in Great Kills Staten Island can get NBC, WPIX or WNET. I gave up watching those ch's until they up their power.


----------



## slocko

once the combiner is up, i hope nbc decided to do fear factor in HD. a lot of eye candy on that show. and it's even entertaining


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *WNJT from Trenton is 52-1 (UHF 43).
> 
> WNJN from Montclair is 50-1 ,etc. (UHF 51).
> 
> 
> Not sure was 55-5 is...*



Sorry, I meant 50-5


----------



## Islaine

An ABC-HD OTA related question: I noticed during the "commentator" scenes in last night's Cup Finals game, that the video and audio were slightly but annoyingly out of sync (lips start moving a second or two before the audio comes in). Curiously, this only happened when the ESPN studio commentators were tied in, not when the on-site, at-arena, commentators were speaking. Is this sort of thing due to the local ABC affiliate not properly synching the audio and video feeds?


I've often noticed the same thing during programs viewed on my Dish Network sources (both SD and HD) but it seems to be totally random there. Funny but it never happened with my old 300-series Dish receiver, only now since I got the 811 receiver for HD.... duh...


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Was I the only one who didn't get WPIX-DT tonight? I TiVo'ed the game hoping to finally enjoy an HD Mets telecast and I see Ch. 11 had a Searching for Signal message. At least I didn't have to suffer through the loss!*



You weren't the only one. I couldn't get it yesterday either. It was there, but I couldn't lock on it at all. Pissed me off a bit.


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cmeinck_
> *Today, in my most recent trip to the roof, I installed a Channel Master 7777. ABC's signal is jumping all over the place. I'm not sure if my Square Shooter is facing the wrong way or the preamp is not a good idea. I'm toying with the idea of an antennuator. Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Before this, I had a straight line from the SS inside to a VCR Cable Distribution Amp. ABC was solid for me. Not sure if the weather has anyting to do w/ it?*



The preamp is being overloaded by other signals. Preamps generally do not work well in metro areas. I'm not sure of your location but I bet that's the problem. I can't use a preamp either or I get the same results as you.

Phil


----------



## ilkevinli

I still can't get it today either ..











> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sangs_
> *You weren't the only one. I couldn't get it yesterday either. It was there, but I couldn't lock on it at all. Pissed me off a bit.*


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ilkevinli_
> *I still can't get it today either ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I was able to receive Sunday's game, with a few minor dropouts. When's that combiner gonna be ready? Will NBC & PIX finally broadcast at full power?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I was able to receive Sunday's game, with a few minor dropouts. When's that combiner gonna be ready? Will NBC & PIX finally broadcast at full power?*



....I'm quite certain that the only technologically related question 2nd to "When will high speed EZPass hit the Tri-State roadways?" is "WTF will the combiner be completed?!?!?!"


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Will NBC & PIX finally broadcast at full power?*



That's the plan, but only time will tell.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

The real plan is Land on Mars, World Peace, finish the combiner


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *The real plan is Land on Mars, World Peace, finish the combiner*



To me, that STILL sounds a bit optimistic.


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *To me, that STILL sounds a bit optimistic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



LOL


----------



## sting0r

Why dont we all go to the Empire state building with signs and picket until we can get our combiner










Anyone with me....


----------



## Calabs

I think we'd have better luck lobbying NASA to get us on the spaceship to Mars!!!


----------



## slocko

Can a combiner be made of legos?


----------



## skyhawk223

I built one out of tongue depressors, but the cicadas ate it.


----------



## jaypb

I believe they are working on renaming the project from the "Combiner" to the "Delayer".


YMMV..........


----------



## seaford

>>Why dont we all go to the Empire state building with signs and picket until we can get our combiner


i walked by twice today and didn't see you









i guess you were on 34th

maybe you saw me - i was staring up at the antenna and muttering


----------



## vinnyv07

I love the jokes...but its kind of sad that its so hopeless. I have just given up on it. I dont expect it anymore. Now that June is here...there is no doubt in my mind that the month will come and go and the combiner will be no closer to becoming a reality.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

Kidding aside I fully expect the freedom tower to be complete before the combiner project ever takes off making the combiner a moot point.


----------



## Calabs

These conversations remind me of the fiasco that was going on with WCAU (NBC in Philly). Anyone that was more than 5 miles from the tower would have a problem getting it. Sept-03 turned into Nov, turned into Jan-04...............and so on. Eventually they upped their power and everyone's happy in the Philly area.










The combiner will happen...................it just seems like an eternity when you are counting the days, and there is no end in sight.










However; whoever said patience is a virtue, didn't have to wait for more High Definition TV!!!!!!!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *These conversations remind me of the fiasco that was going on with WCAU (NBC in Philly). Anyone that was more than 5 miles from the tower would have a problem getting it. Sept-03 turned into Nov, turned into Jan-04...............and so on. Eventually they upped their power and everyone's happy in the Philly area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The combiner will happen...................it just seems like an eternity when you are counting the days, and there is no end in sight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However; whoever said patience is a virtue, didn't have to wait for more High Definition TV!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Very much so with regards to the Philly comparison (as most Central NJ residents still lurking on this thread can attest to). I haven't looked back with either of my antennas for more than 10 minutes at a clip since ABC/NBC went live out of NYC. But I'm still panging to see a Mets game in HD....although I'm not a Mets fan. And I do miss the ocassional UPN movie in HD from Philly.....but I can live now that NBC/ABC are a go out of NYC.


----------



## wward

Hey jaypb


I guess you have given up on ABC/NBC out of Philly? I actually have a ridiculous time trying to get NBC out of NY and ABC comes in only when the planets are aligned in perfect order.


I get WCAU-DT and WPVI-DT without a hitch of course I hade to do some futzing around with my antennas but it was worth it.


----------



## goisles1

Hi All... DirecTv just installed my HDTV Receiver, new Dish, and OTA Antenna.


My OTA channels are terrible.. I'm really new to the scene, so I want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly before I spend more $$$.


OK... they installed a WINEGUARD round antenna. I think it's this model

MS-1000 


All the locals are crappy.. I'm in Nassu County. I have a crystal clear view of the western sky with NO TREES..


Is this model an adequate antenna??? Perhaps I just need an adjustment?


Any help would be great...


Thanks

Rob


----------



## KenA

Rob, I'm just southeast of you and I get the big four fine (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX) and get WPIX with occasional dropouts. I have a Radio Shack UHF/VHF antenna mounted on my roof with a 7777 preamp. BTW, you may want to check into Cablevision. I have both Cable and Dish and I have a nice variety of HD stations. Cablevision carries MSG-HD, FSNY-HD, HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, Cinemax-HD, Starz-HD, INHD, CBS-HD, NBC-HD, Fox-ED, ESPN-HD, PBS-HD, Bravo-HD. Now that they have Disney owned ESPN-HD, it shouldn't be long before ABC-HD comes along.


----------



## goisles1

Thanks Ken,


I actually grew up in Pequa... my entire family still lives there...


I've been reading alot since I initially posted.. I'm not 100% sure that the DTV tech scanned for digital channels.. I think I'm only viewing analouge.


Tonight, when I get home, I'm going to play with the receiver.


If it's still bad.. I may look into replacing that antenna or adding a pre-amp.


Also.. I'd love to add Cablevision to the mix.. But.. $$$ is an issue.. Just bought the house.. so..we're not looking to add to our bills...I think I'll wait and see if the NHL has a lock out. If not, I may get cable so I can watch the Isles in HD. I hear hockey is amazing in HDTV.


----------



## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by goisles1_
> *OK... they installed a WINEGUARD round antenna. I think it's this model
> 
> MS-1000
> 
> 
> All the locals are crappy.. I'm in Nassu County. I have a crystal clear view of the western sky with NO TREES..
> 
> 
> Is this model an adequate antenna??? Perhaps I just need an adjustment?
> *



Did you take a look at the range chart on the Winegard site? It probably comes down to whether they gave you the MS-1000 (non-amplified) or MS-2000 (amplified). The 2000, which has a 30 mile UHF range, should be good enough for you. However, the 1000 only has a 15 mile UHF range which is not sufficient. Unless they gave you paperwork when they did the install, I don't know how you can tell which one you have.


----------



## goisles1

I have the box in my garage... I'll check it when I get home...


I figured it was the MS-1000 as I didn;t need to provide him with any power..


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by goisles1_
> *Thanks Ken,
> 
> 
> I actually grew up in Pequa... my entire family still lives there...
> 
> 
> I've been reading alot since I initially posted.. I'm not 100% sure that the DTV tech scanned for digital channels.. I think I'm only viewing analouge.*



That is a definite possibility. I know my Dish guy didn't do it, so I had to do it myself. If you're seeing any kind of snow, than its analog. Digital doesn't have snow, just pixilation and dropout. Trust me, you'd know the difference.


> Quote:
> _Originally posted by goisles1_
> *Tonight, when I get home, I'm going to play with the receiver.
> 
> 
> If it's still bad.. I may look into replacing that antenna or adding a pre-amp.
> 
> 
> Also.. I'd love to add Cablevision to the mix.. But.. $$$ is an issue.. Just bought the house.. so..we're not looking to add to our bills...I think I'll wait and see if the NHL has a lock out. If not, I may get cable so I can watch the Isles in HD. I hear hockey is amazing in HDTV.*



Actually, Cablevision doesn't charge extra for HD. You just need the family package for about $45 to get all HD accept for the movie channels, which come with each package. Well worth it if you ask me. Hockey in HD is truly awesome, but MSG and FSNY only broadcast home games in HD. Doesn't help me since I have season tickets to the Isles







. I do get to see them in HD when they're in Jersey or at MSG, though.


Anyway, if you still have problems with your antenna after re-scanning, let me know. I've been tweaking mine for almost three years to maximize my reception. Be sure to check antennaweb.org for direction.


----------



## cmeinck

I'm just east of both you guys and was able to finally nail down my OTA this weekend. I'm using a Winegard SquareShooter with a ChannelMaster 7777. If you're getting signal, it might be matter of redirecting your dish and possibly adding a pre-amp. I had all kinds of problems, but this was due to faulty cables. I wasn't able to get much with the straight antenna, so I think the preamp will make a big difference in your case.


Does the Family Package offer you MSG and FOX Sports? I unfortunately do not have an Isles Season Tix plan, so when (and that's a big when) hockey comes around, I might dance with the Cablevision devil for $45 if it means INHD, MSG and FOX. As it is, they are coming this weekend to install a cable modem and optimum voice.


And yes, hockey in HD is amazing. Game 7 on ABC HD was awesome. Game 6 would have been awesome save for a faulty coaxial cable.


Good luck.

Chris


----------



## goisles1




> Quote:
> I might dance with the Cablevision devil for $45 if it means INHD, MSG and FOX. As it is, they are coming this weekend to install a cable modem and optimum voice.



Nice.. I'm in the same boat.. We just moved into the house and I ordered the Optonline and Opt Voice... I'm really impressed with the VoIP service. The deal is amazing..$35 a month flat. No other charges.. And, The quality is really good. I had no problems wiring up my Tivos either.


OK.. Now here's my current situation..


As I thought, the Installer only searched off AIR channels. So, After playing with the set-up of the receiver I was able to SCAN for Digital.


It located 9 channels. I was able to view most of them last night, some better then others. But, this morning, none were coming in. I just got the Searching for Signal msg.


I may look into getting the pre-amp.. I see most people go with the CM7777. Does this need to be near the antenna, or can I connect it anywhere in the stream, like near my entertainment center?


----------



## dswallow

A preamp is mostly useless connected anywhere but immedately at the antenna. You're just amplifying a signal that's suffered loss and/or noise placing it anywhere else.


----------



## Infominister

Well-placed sources at the YES Network say production of home Yankee games in High Definition will begin on June 25th, if all goes as planned. And which carriers will show the games in HD? Cablevision, TimeWarner, etc. "How about DirecTV," I asked? "No word on that. Suggest you call their executive offices."


Okay, sports fans, here are a couple of numbers:


1-310-964-6598, or 1-310-964-1031.


Let us know what you're told.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by goisles1_
> *Nice.. I'm in the same boat.. We just moved into the house and I ordered the Optonline and Opt Voice... I'm really impressed with the VoIP service. The deal is amazing..$35 a month flat. No other charges.. And, The quality is really good. I had no problems wiring up my Tivos either.
> *



Not to take this thread too off topic, I looked into opt voice but went with Vonage instead. It's $5 cheaper, allowed me to transfer my phone number, and had a few more features. I fed it into my patch panel last night now all the phone jacks in the house are running of it. The ReplayTV has no trouble dialing out either.


I may end up ordering cable for the local channels also. The signal is just too weak for us in southwestern CT. I want to see the Olympics in HD, and if the combiner isn't finished by then I'm going to have to get cable (iO).


----------



## trekkerj

Cablevision, really? I'm shocked. That would rock. Rock, I say!!!! Fingers crossed.


----------



## bowbie89




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Well-placed sources at the YES Network say production of home Yankee games in High Definition will begin on June 25th, if all goes as planned.*



That's great!







Now let's hope Directv picks that up!


----------



## Infominister

Yuh gotta' call.


----------



## MLM

Can we keep the discussion on topic please. This is an over-the-air thread.


Thanks.


----------



## dapope

ohh, please







Yes in HD would be super !!


----------



## trekkerj

s2silber, when you listed the cable companies, we're you saying that your source confirmed those 2? I'm not sure if that's what you we're trying to say. I just find it hard to believe Cablevision would be in after all the history with YES.


----------



## Ken H

This topic is for OTA in the NYC area only. Please take off-topic discussion to other appropriate topics.


----------



## goisles1

Oh man... All my locals came in last night (without any preamp).. I watched the 1st half of the NBA finals.. What a difference...


I am a little worried about the signal strength.. But, from what I've read, you either get the picture or don't. So, even though I have a 45% signal strength, I'm getting the signal.


Should I be looking to add that pre-amp still?


----------



## mortega31686

Last night i rescanned my channels on my MyHD Card and it turned up 10 new subchannels on channel 29. Has anyone else been able to receive these channels? They are evidently from NJ and on subchannel 2 there should be a note that the channel is testing and to call a # to tell them where you are watching from. Give them a call to give them the heads up. I am unable to receive a stable signal from the channel now due to my distance from it but it was at a stable 28% last night. Hopefully some of you can help me out to figure what this channel is. Thanks in advance.

P.S. I am also using a pre-amp with my antenna so that may help some of you.

-Mike


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mortega31686_
> *Last night i rescanned my channels on my MyHD Card and it turned up 10 new subchannels on channel 29. Has anyone else been able to receive these channels? They are evidently from NJ and on subchannel 2 there should be a note that the channel is testing and to call a # to tell them where you are watching from. Give them a call to give them the heads up. I am unable to receive a stable signal from the channel now due to my distance from it but it was at a stable 28% last night. Hopefully some of you can help me out to figure what this channel is. Thanks in advance.
> 
> P.S. I am also using a pre-amp with my antenna so that may help some of you.
> 
> -Mike*



WFME-DT. It broadcasts at 2 kW from the WNJN-TV/DT site in New Jersey. They have an analog station on 66 but it's only at 24 kW--I think the digital station has better coverage.


- Trip


----------



## Islaine

I'm in s.w. Suffolk (VERY south, only a few blocks from the bay) and I'm intrigued by the different antennas you other LI'ers have (btw, love your name, goisles1 !) I have the Dish Network 811 receiver and for OTA, my local TV repair/install guy ended up putting a Yagi MXU47 antenna on the roof. Admittedly he did try a smaller version of the same type but couldn't get any signals stronger than 50-60% (in other words, useless). With the bigger model, I can get all the locals usually in the mid to high 70s; although ABC tends to come in the strongest at 83%.


No preamp.


I'd read up on the various ChannelMasters and the Square Shooters but my TV guy said that the Yagi antenna would work fine. So far, he's been right....


If my next-door neighbor didn't have a VERY tall tree on the other side of his house, I'd have a clear shot westward. Because the antenna was installed in late March, I was worried that once the tree leafed out it would mess up my signals, but (knock LOTS of wood!!!) it hasn't seemed to. I'm assuming, though, that if that tree should ever be removed, my signal strength would be better.


I noted the earlier discussion re:Cablevision but the reason I got the OTA antenna in the first place is that I didn't want to have to go that route. I pay Optonline for their monopoly on cable modem service but I'm be d****'d if I'm going to pay them for HD as well! (besides, they own the Blueshirts)


----------



## trekkerj

Anyone having problems with WABC tonight? Getting breakups even with my preamp, which has never happened before.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Anyone having problems with WABC tonight? Getting breakups even with my preamp, which has never happened before.*



Yep I had to switch over to WPVI-DT to watch the game.


----------



## Calabs

This may have been covered before, but PAX coming out of NYC shows a very high SS on my receiver (~75%). However, the picture is unwatchable with pixelation and sound cutouts. Very strange!!! I get all other NYC stations fine (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX and UPN). Anyone else seeing this?


----------



## cmeinck

I had no problems with ABC including the Pistons beating the Fakers! I've had problems with NBC this weekend, but that's par for the course.


----------



## bjohn

I'm having the same problem with PAX.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *This may have been covered before, but PAX coming out of NYC shows a very high SS on my receiver (~75%). However, the picture is unwatchable with pixelation and sound cutouts. Very strange!!! I get all other NYC stations fine (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX and UPN). Anyone else seeing this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Anyone having problems with WABC tonight? Getting breakups even with my preamp, which has never happened before.*



Watched the game without problems with indoor Silver Sensor in the basement from Passaic.


----------



## wayneliz

I have been having problems locking onto 7-1 here in Little Falls, NJ for the last couple of days. Signal used to be in the strong area on my SAT-520, but now is spotty at best with breakups and no signal 1/2 the time. All the others are fine except for 4-1 that has always been weak. Checked the

antenna aim and connections- all are ok. Maybe 7-1 is doing some type of antenna or transmitter work?


Wayne


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by goisles1_
> *Oh man... All my locals came in last night (without any preamp).. I watched the 1st half of the NBA finals.. What a difference...
> 
> 
> I am a little worried about the signal strength.. But, from what I've read, you either get the picture or don't. So, even though I have a 45% signal strength, I'm getting the signal.
> 
> 
> Should I be looking to add that pre-amp still?*



Signal strength can be misleading. Each STB uses a different scale. If you're getting a lot of dropouts, you may want to add a preamp. Oddly enough, a preamp can do more harm than good if your close to the transmitters (which you're not really). Multipath can wreak havok on a preamp.


----------



## HDugan

Worries about DT28 should be eased. A big wig at NBC just informed me that DT28 would be juiced up later this summer with it's move from the GE building to the Empire State Building.


They are making the effort to complete the task before the Olympics.


Harry

Admin at http://www.hdtvforum.com 

A Great Source for Daily HDTV News


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> A big wig at NBC just informed me that DT28 would be juiced up later this summer with it's move from the GE building to the Empire State Building.



Nice










Same direction as the other channels. I should be able to lock NBC without

moving the antenna


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *Worries about DT28 should be eased. A big wig at NBC just informed me that DT28 would be juiced up later this summer with it's move from the GE building to the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> They are making the effort to complete the task before the Olympics.
> 
> 
> Harry
> 
> Admin at http://www.hdtvforum.com
> 
> A Great Source for Daily HDTV News*



Does he mean a separate move to the ESB outside of the combiner is being planned for 28? If they're talking about the combiner, then we already knew it.


Or, could they possibly put WNJU-DT 36 on the air and temporarilyy trade digitals on 28 and 36 so that they have the permanent WNJU transmitter installed and ready for when the combiner goes in and WNBC can get their own signal?


- Trip


----------



## George Thompson

He means the combiner project. WNJU was (is) always an alternative, but the combiner shoud be ready by then. I'll see if I can find out anything more at the HD edit show this evening.

GT


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *He means the combiner project. WNJU was (is) always an alternative, but the combiner shoud be ready by then. I'll see if I can find out anything more at the HD edit show this evening.
> 
> GT*



"but the combiner shoud be ready by then"

When is then?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *"but the combiner shoud be ready by then"
> 
> When is then?*



THIS is the quandry that hath become the NYC digital OTA mini-series! It should be the battle cry of the digital masses!!!


It should also be the official tagline for all Combiner merchandise (there will be merchandise.......right ?!?!?!)


----------



## CJArciola III

Any merchandise will invariably be delayed in production...


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *Worries about DT28 should be eased. A big wig at NBC just informed me that DT28 would be juiced up later this summer with it's move from the GE building to the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> They are making the effort to complete the task before the Olympics.
> 
> *



What's not stated is that the Olympics that are being referred to is the 2012 games!


----------



## trekkerj

I noticed WNYW-DT seems to be off the air. Has been for a while today. Anyone know why? I wonder if it's combiner related work? Or perhaps work on the stations HD equipment prepping for the fall.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I noticed WNYW-DT seems to be off the air. Has been for a while today. Anyone know why? I wonder if it's combiner related work? Or perhaps work on the stations HD equipment prepping for the fall.*



I was thinking the latter.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I wonder if it's combiner related work?*



It is unlikely to be combiner related since WNYW-DT will not be on the combiner. They have their own antenna at Empire.


----------



## wward

Has absolutely nothing to do with the combiner. Due to the heavy rain that has been occurring during the evening some may be experiencing lowered or no signal strength.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Has absolutely nothing to do with the combiner. Due to the heavy rain that has been occurring during the evening some may be experiencing lowered or no signal strength.*



It's 7am and it's still down.......or at least down now. I didn't check last night.......just this AM while tooling around.


Also noticed I'm receiving 3-1 (26) KYW CBS out of Philly on both antennas while facing NYC.


Is it a nice Tropo day on the Hepburn index ?!?!?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Has absolutely nothing to do with the combiner. Due to the heavy rain that has been occurring during the evening some may be experiencing lowered or no signal strength.*



I have WNYW-DT on Cablevision and it is off the air, too. They must be having some kind of problem.


Scott


----------



## chrisb3

Anyone know if Dodgers home games are in HD?


If the Dodgers have home games available in HD, maybe FOX is finishing the HD conversion in NYC for Saturday's Yankees/Dodgers game.


Well...it's wishful thinking anyways....


----------



## trekkerj

The Dodger-Yankee game on Sunday is on ESPN-HD, but we digress.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *The Dodger-Yankee game on Sunday is on ESPN-HD, but we digress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Really? I'll be checking that out on Sunday nite.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrisb3_
> *Really? I'll be checking that out on Sunday nite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



The ESPN-HD coverage of the Dodgers-Yankees game is likely to be blacked out in New York in deference to the YES Network's telecast of the game. That means no Yankees in HD.


----------



## trekkerj

No, there is no YES telecast, this is an ESPN game only.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> The ESPN-HD coverage of the Dodgers-Yankees game in likely to be blacked out in New York in deference to the YES Network's telecast.



It should be on in NYC as the ESPN Sunday Night Game is a national exclusive for the network. Under their deal with MLB, their game on Sunday is the only one on.


YES netowrk is not showing the game on Sunday.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *The ESPN-HD coverage of the Dodgers-Yankees game is likely to be blacked out in New York in deference to the YES Network's telecast of the game. That means no Yankees in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



With all due respect, this in inaccurate. The Sunday Night games are ESPN's. YES will NOT be doing a broadcast! This will be the first Yankee game that I have been able to watch in HD!


OOPS...Missed trekkerj's and chrisb3's response...what they said!


----------



## Infominister

I gladly stand corrected. Looking forward to seeing the Yankees for the first time in HD.


----------



## trekkerj

Hopefully, the first time of many.







Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *The Dodger-Yankee game on Sunday is on ESPN-HD, but we digress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Please don't digress. This is an OTA ONLY thread. Can you take this cable talk to the NYC Cable thread(s) please?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *I have WNYW-DT on Cablevision and it is off the air, too. They must be having some kind of problem.
> 
> 
> Scott*



They were not doing anything related to the combiner


----------



## sting0r

Are you sure? I mean that thing should be up any day now right?


> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *They were not doing anything related to the combiner*


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrisb3_
> *Anyone know if Dodgers home games are in HD?
> 
> 
> If the Dodgers have home games available in HD, maybe FOX is finishing the HD conversion in NYC for Saturday's Yankees/Dodgers game.
> 
> 
> Well...it's wishful thinking anyways....*



WNYW is ready for HD since they are already transmitting at 720p.

I doubt the game would be in EDTV. It wasn't last week.


----------



## trekkerj

Broadcasting in 720p isn't the only thing keeping WNYW from being finished with it's upgrades. Something called a splicer needs to be installed if it hasn't already, to be able to use the technology that fox is using for it's HD.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> WNYW is ready for HD since they are already transmitting at 720p. I doubt the game would be in EDTV. It wasn't last week.



okies. I had turned on the game on FOX a couple Saturdays ago and the game looked like it was in 4:3.


----------



## dturturro

I see WNYW was broadcasting in 720p, however the other day the put out North Shore (which was AWFUL!) in FOX Widescreen. This didn't appear to be HD. It looked like ED to me. I may be wrong. Did anyone else notice this (and are you willing to cop to watching this terrible show?!)?


----------



## trekkerj

Everything is upconverted to 720p.


----------



## dm145

5-1 is still down?


----------



## Infominister

Looks that way from here.


----------



## jcondon

5-1 is still down here too. I and I get a decent signal most of the time for them.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Looks that way from here.*


----------



## patrickpiteo

5-1, 5-2 down here from Queens also...


----------



## chrisb3

yeppers. 5-1, 5-2 is a no go.


it would be nice to find out why.


----------



## Scott G

5-1 and 5-2 are definitely off the air completely. I get them on Cablevision and the channel is completely blank. It would be nice for some from WNYW to at least let us know if there is a problem and if and when it will be fixed.


Scott


----------



## KenA

My guess is splicer work. Fridays are usually the day for major system changes. At least they are where I work.


----------



## patrickpiteo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *My guess is splicer work. Fridays are usually the day for major system changes. At least they are where I work.*



They have been out since Thursday night...


----------



## chrisb3

The word from a support tech that updates a CV mailing list sez that FOX is having a problem in NYC. It should be back up somewhere between today (Saturday) and Monday at the latest.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sting0r_
> *Are you sure? I mean that thing should be up any day now right?*



Positive from what I am told the the digital signal will be off air for about a week.


----------



## AlanS

I'm wondering if anyone in the Livingston/Short Hills area (Hi, Claude) has had any luck with WPIX-DT? As I've reported before, while I can pick up several of the Philly stations reliably with my 90" Wineguard UHF w/rotor and CM amp on the roof, I've always had trouble with the NY stations. Comcast here in Essex County has a bunch of the locals in HD, but alas no WPIX and therefore no NY Mets.


If anyone could clarify the status of WPIX (i.e., current channel assignement (12?), power, or even potential pick-up by Comcast) and offer any suggestions, I would appreciate it. A search of this thread has not helped.


Alan S.

Lively Livingston, NJ


----------



## bjohn

FOX IS BACK!!!


and it looks like they're actually transmitting in HD.

Nice.


----------



## patrickpiteo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *FOX IS BACK!!!
> 
> 
> and it looks like they're actually transmitting in HD.
> 
> Nice.*



Really is the Yankee game on?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by patrickpiteo_
> *Really is the Yankee game on?*



Its up but the signal is all over the place. From what I can see the game is not HD.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Its up but the signal is all over the place. From what I can see the game is not HD.*



Also 5-2 has video but a test tone playing. Looks like they are doing testing so who knows if the signal will stay up.


----------



## bjohn

Ok, it's not HD.

just widescreen.


But I guess everything is in widescreen now.

even the commercials.


----------



## dturturro

It's not even true widescreen. It's stretched 4:3 and looks AWFUL!


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *It's not even true widescreen. It's stretched 4:3 and looks AWFUL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I hope they don't leave it in stretch mode. Not good.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I hope they don't leave it in stretch mode. Not good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



It looks terrible. Everyone looks short and fat.


----------



## KenA

Nooooo! We finally got ESPN-HD to stop doing this! What are they thinking?!!!


----------



## patrickpiteo

looks real badddd...


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *It looks terrible. Everyone looks short and fat.*



Fox 5 here in New York did this crap once a year ago....(stretching all 4:3 material) then we complained here---and then they reverted back.


If they want to fill the screen with 4:3 material--then do it right like how WPIX does it...zoom and crop a bit.


Come on FOX5--what the heck are you guys thinking???


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *It looks terrible. Everyone looks short and fat.*



Fox 5 here in New York did this crap once a year ago....(stretching all 4:3 material) then we complained here---and then they reverted back.


If they want to fill the screen with 4:3 material--then do it right like how WPIX does it...zoom and crop a bit.


Come on FOX5--what the heck are you guys thinking???


----------



## tstatguy112




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I see WNYW was broadcasting in 720p, however the other day the put out North Shore (which was AWFUL!) in FOX Widescreen. This didn't appear to be HD. It looked like ED to me. I may be wrong. Did anyone else notice this (and are you willing to cop to watching this terrible show?!)?*


----------



## tstatguy112

I watched it too thinking it was Hi-def. It was wide screen allright but it looked blurry so i cleaned my glasses which of course made it worse. Then I tried changing picture size, no help. Very disappointing picture but outcome of the game was correct.


----------



## tstatguy112




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I see WNYW was broadcasting in 720p, however the other day the put out North Shore (which was AWFUL!) in FOX Widescreen. This didn't appear to be HD. It looked like ED to me. I may be wrong. Did anyone else notice this (and are you willing to cop to watching this terrible show?!)?*


----------



## tstatguy112

Oh I also know that FOX has Hi-def because the lead in for the baseball games with Jeanie Zelesco(whatever) and her male partner(whatever his name is)come in Hi-def but when the game comes on, it doesn't.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> Oh I also know that FOX has Hi-def because the lead in for the baseball games with Jeanie Zelesco(whatever) and her male partner(whatever his name is)come in Hi-def but when the game comes on, it doesn't.



I agree. I was watching Good Day NY on 5-1 this morning and it looked like it was in some kind of HD.


----------



## KenA

Guys, Fox will not go HD until August. Right now they are upconverting to 720p in preperation for the HD transition. Its a good upconvert, but its not HD. They are also stretching SD, which is a really bad idea.


----------



## trekkerj

They are also stretching shows that are normally 16:9 widescreen to begin with. Fox Widescreen is gone.


----------



## Infominister

How would you do that? Does that mean that on a 16:9 program you'd have to change the image from "Standard" to "Shrink" to get it back to the original 16:9 aspect ration? If so, that's ridiculous.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *They are also stretching shows that are normally 16:9 widescreen to begin with. Fox Widescreen is gone.*



I have no idea what are you talking about.


----------



## dswallow

Jut because something may be ridiculous does not by itself place it out of the realm of things that station engineers and management will do.


----------



## dan57

Perhaps this is what was meant....

I used to get baseball and football games from WNYW-DT in letterbox format, i.e. 16:9 aspect ratio with black bars on all four sides. Now, I am getting baseball in widescreen which fills the entire screen. Does not look like true 720p, though. Instead, looks like 480p up-converted to 720p.


----------



## dm145

I may add, for example:

Oliver Beene use to be be 480p (16:9) filled screen without stretching.

Last night it was stretched and distorted. (Short and fat people)


----------



## tstatguy112




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Well-placed sources at the YES Network say production of home Yankee games in High Definition will begin on June 25th, if all goes as planned. And which carriers will show the games in HD? Cablevision, TimeWarner, etc. "How about DirecTV," I asked? "No word on that. Suggest you call their executive offices."
> 
> 
> Okay, sports fans, here are a couple of numbers:
> 
> 
> 1-310-964-6598, or 1-310-964-1031.
> 
> 
> Let us know what you're told.*


----------



## tstatguy112

Yeah they're gonna be in hi-def June 25th cause the game is gonna broadcast over the WB which broadcasts they're home games for the Mets in Hi-Def. But then again it might not happen cause it's a Yankee stadium and not Shea. We'll see


----------



## trekkerj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I may add, for example:
> 
> Oliver Beene use to be be 480p (16:9) filled screen without stretching.
> 
> Last night it was stretched and distorted. (Short and fat people)*



What I meant is that programs that are normally "Fox Widescreen High Resolution, yada, yada" are now simply the 4:3 version stretched out just like the rest of the programming is. I don't think they are back up to normal yet. Otherwise, they are just doing something wrong.


----------



## dm145

tstatguy112


When you quote a response, you can enter your comments below the quote. I see you are posting another reply instead.


----------



## alexjohnson

Apologies - I know this is what search is for but at 105 pages...!


Currently a TWC HD subscriber but toying with a switch to DirecTV, combined with OTA for locals of course. I'm not dissatisfied with TWC, but they're expensive, their HD transition is glacial, I'd like an HDTiVo, and they dropped TechTV.


Anyway, I have direct line of sight to the Empire State Building (within a mile), but the Conde Nast building (always thought it was Bertelsmann but anyway, I know the one people mean - 4 Times Square, with the Saturn V on its roof) is blocked, as is GE. So two questions if anyone can help me:


1. I read that digital signals are supposed to be much more forgiving than analogue. If I can point an antenna in the direction of the ESB, is it likely I'd get other channels as well?


2. What channels broadcast from the Empire State Building anyway? Is there a complete list?


Thanks!


Alex


----------



## John Mason

Alex, if I had a means to use DirecTV and an interest in HD, I'd definitely go for VOOM's service, which has a new STB with a built-in OTA tuner. Suspect, with a ESB line of site, you'd get other mid-town H/DTV stations, perhaps even WNET-DT (61 UHF?) at about 38th near the Hudson R. but very weak and beamed torward Newark. At times, depending on location and highly variable multipath reflections, you can tune in reflections, although they're often erratic. Analog gives you severe ghosting in Manhattan's canyons; digital glitches result in blank screens or macroblocking. Believe WCBS-DT is the only real HD from ESB. I can tune it, from a north-facing site about 6 blocks north of 33rd St., by pointing my book-size Silver Sensor antenna at a neaby building and tuning reflections, so don't limit tuning attempts at line of site. RCN cable is an alternative in some buildings, with 3 more HDs (2 HDNets and ESPN-HD) than TWC until they expand HD-accessible bandwidth by dropping about 13 'Metro' analog channels and requiring digital boxes for those getting Metro with analog-only boxes (see TWC NYC local thread). -- John


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *What I meant is that programs that are normally "Fox Widescreen High Resolution, yada, yada" are now simply the 4:3 version stretched out just like the rest of the programming is. I don't think they are back up to normal yet. Otherwise, they are just doing something wrong.*



I'd say very wrong.


----------



## njfoses

I agree they definately are stretching even the fox widescreen shows. Tonight both north shore and the casino looked much worse than last week. Has anybody tried calling them to find out whats going on?? I dont view this as a good sign with fox hd not to far around the corner.


Mike


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by njfoses_
> *I dont view this as a good sign with fox hd not to far around the corner.
> *



I would not be overly concerned. They apparently had some sort of major failure that kept them off the air for two days. Give them some time to recover completely.


----------



## alexjohnson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *Alex, if I had a means to use DirecTV and an interest in HD, I'd definitely go for VOOM's service, which has a new STB with a built-in OTA tuner. Suspect, with a ESB line of site, you'd get other mid-town H/DTV stations, perhaps even WNET-DT (61 UHF?) at about 38th near the Hudson R. but very weak and beamed torward Newark. At times, depending on location and highly variable multipath reflections, you can tune in reflections, although they're often erratic. Analog gives you severe ghosting in Manhattan's canyons; digital glitches result in blank screens or macroblocking. Believe WCBS-DT is the only real HD from ESB. I can tune it, from a north-facing site about 6 blocks north of 33rd St., by pointing my book-size Silver Sensor antenna at a neaby building and tuning reflections, so don't limit tuning attempts at line of site. RCN cable is an alternative in some buildings, with 3 more HDs (2 HDNets and ESPN-HD) than TWC until they expand HD-accessible bandwidth by dropping about 13 'Metro' analog channels and requiring digital boxes for those getting Metro with analog-only boxes (see TWC NYC local thread). -- John*



Thanks John. Voom is interesting, but it's the TiVo/HD combo that has me looking towards DirecTV. Doing a bit more digging it seems the plan is to get all the major channels broadcasting from the ESB; it's probably wiser for me to wait. My building is actually wired for DirecTV as the alternative to TWC - no RCN. But I'm a Brit so ESPN is of almost no interest, and HDNet doesn't look particularly compelling - more eye-candy TV like PBS and Discovery HD I can't imagine ever watching. But WPIX - that's another matter!


----------



## Scott G

For anyone who wants to let WNYW-DT know about their horrible stretched picture please contact them here either with a FAX or phone call :


Vice President of Engineering for WNYW and WWOR: Al Shjarback

Director of Engineering for WNYW and WWOR: Edward Harris


Vice President of Operations and Engineering: Greg Franchuk


212-452-3631

212-452-3969 Fax


----------



## PDPnNJ

Has anyone noticed 5-2 (WWOR) PQ since FOX went stretched ? It has gotten better.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Has anyone noticed 5-2 (WWOR) PQ since FOX went streched ? It has gotten better.*



Yes, I did notice that, too.


Scott


----------



## Chriš2

I just called the number listed above and spoke to someone who said "they are working on the problem and it should be solved soon".


I guess we'll see.


----------



## Hanson

On Sunday, I reinstalled MyHD. Now NBC, which used to get a steady 20%-25% (which was stable enough to only glitch once or twice an hour) is now just gone.


Is anyone else havng problems with OTA NBC or is this just my problem? The reception just bombed out without my moving the antenna and now I can't get anything stable no matter how much I fiddle with the Silver Sensor. It's so bad that I started thinking maybe NBC dropped the signal strength to save money during summer rerun season.


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Hanson_
> *On Sunday, I reinstalled MyHD. Now NBC, which used to get a steady 20%-25% (which was stable enough to only glitch once or twice an hour) is now just gone.
> 
> 
> Is anyone else havng problems with OTA NBC or is this just my problem? The reception just bombed out without my moving the antenna and now I can't get anything stable no matter how much I fiddle with the Silver Sensor. It's so bad that I started thinking maybe NBC dropped the signal strength to save money during summer rerun season.*



Last night I couldn't get a lock on NBC either, so it wasn't just you. Usually it comes in great.


----------



## PDPnNJ

I believe WNYW is using the analog feed and upconverting it to their digital feed. While watching a show last night, the network logo showed FOX 5 instead of FOX44 which is shown when transmitting directly from their digital feed. I wonder if they are working on the splicer. Hopefully, this will be solved before the All-Star Game !


----------



## daryey

I live on Riverside Drive and have a direct TV sat dish outside my window but I dont get HD OTA stations from DTV and I need to know the best antenna to get the OTA , it would help if it could mount on my dish as there is not much room and the roof is off limits


----------



## John Mason

daryey, Silver Sensor antennas (UHF only) are the size of a small book and might mount on or near the D* dish. They're a narrow-reception design, created to minimize side reflections (multipath), so being able to point the SS at the Empire State Building and mid-town would probably work best. Ordered mine in the mail a few years ago but believe some big electronics stores now have them. -- John


----------



## daryey

thanks will try that, I have Direc TV they state that Owned and Operated HD local stations are carried like CBS aren't both NBC and ABC also O&O? so shouldnt I get them form DTV?


lastly I imagine I would need to run a cable from the antennae to the HD rcvr or could I just run it to the multi switch that I plug my DTV cables into?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by daryey_
> *I have Direc TV they state that Owned and Operated HD local stations are carried like CBS aren't both NBC and ABC also O&O? so shouldnt I get them form DTV?
> *



If you happen to live in a city that has a CBS O&O station, your are able to get WCBS or KCBS depending on your location. Only CBS is allowing this. Fox is supposed to have a similar situation by the fall.


----------



## Scott G

I happend to notice this morning WNYW-DT (channel 5.1) is back to normal. They are once again using the 4:3 screen. Thank goodness the awful stretching is over.


Scott


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> I have Direc TV they state that Owned and Operated HD local stations are carried like CBS aren't both NBC and ABC also O&O? so shouldnt I get them form DTV?



When DirecTV gets the contract done with NBC and ABC, you should be able to get them. In the meantime, only CBS is part of the HD offering from DirecTV. FOX is coming to the DirecTV lineup soon.





> Quote:
> lastly I imagine I would need to run a cable from the antennae to the HD rcvr or could I just run it to the multi switch that I plug my DTV cables into?



You can do that (make sure to plug into the 'antenna' input on the multiswitch)

but you also need a diplexer at the other end. Keep in mind, Silver Sensor is an indoor antenna. No need to place it next to your existing DirecTV dish.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *I happend to notice this morning WNYW-DT (channel 5.1) is back to normal. They are once again using the 4:3 screen. Thank goodness the awful stretching is over.
> 
> 
> Scott*



Great news









Did you notice if they are broadcasting as Channel 44 DT or Channel 5 ?

You can tell by watching the network bug.


----------



## daryey

Thansk for the info so Silver sensor sits on top of my TV or next to the window where the dish is?? I lve in an apt the TV is in the same room that the has the window where the dish is mounted, where should I place and point the antennae?


----------



## John Mason

I'd try to point the Silver Sensor, or any antenna, at the Empire State Building/midtown (other broadcast sites). Might be necessary to extend the coax length to reach your receiver antenna input. You might get N.J. or other stations, too, so you'd either have to shift the antenna for those, or investigate models with very wide reception (unlike the S.S). The S.S. has a small slip-on plastic stand, but that could be left off and the S.S. could be clamped or screwed to the D* mounting base if you want to tinker. Some use their S.S. outside. Believe I'd put a glob of sealant on the coax/antenna joint to minimize water/oxidation with such a mounting. -- John


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by daryey_
> *Thansk for the info so Silver sensor sits on top of my TV or next to the window where the dish is?? I lve in an apt the TV is in the same room that the has the window where the dish is mounted, where should I place and point the antennae?*



They are still just rebroadcasting FOX5, not DT-44.


----------



## Swisher




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by daryey_
> *Thansk for the info so Silver sensor sits on top of my TV or next to the window where the dish is?? I lve in an apt the TV is in the same room that the has the window where the dish is mounted, where should I place and point the antennae?*



The Silver Sensor (like all antennae) is very sensitive to the things surrounding it. Probably the worst place for an antenna is on top of a TV set (even though rabbit ears usually end up here). I've got my SS on top of a tall book shelf, which works pretty well, but when I walk near it I often lose signal. Keep it away from other metal objects (like a window guard or lamp). I also notice a diminished signal if it's too close to the wall. that can make it difficult to find a spot that's "inconspicuous."


----------



## deelmakur

WNBC DT (28) is running very low power. Until they match the other network owned stations, viewers beyond 20 miles, or so, won't see much. I don't know what they're thinking. For openers, senior execs like the CEO's of NBC and GE, both live in suburban CT, beyond the reach of their own programming.


----------



## Infominister

In fairness to WNBC, they really can't pump out any more power from the GE Building than they're already doing. From what I understand from one of the engineers over there, it's something about the risk of frying all the tourists down in Rockefeller Plaza.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *I happend to notice this morning WNYW-DT (channel 5.1) is back to normal. They are once again using the 4:3 screen. Thank goodness the awful stretching is over.
> 
> Scott*



Last night they were back to their normal wide screen.


----------



## deelmakur

If that's the case, they should have used another location. Channel 7 returned it's HD signal to the air a couple of months earlier, and it had adequate power from the get go. This isn't some affiliate. It is the key originating station of the NBC network, in the nation's largest market. The call sign is W-NBC. Many of us spend time and money on HDTV, only to find out stations are off the air for hours at a time, or on reduced power, or not watching P-SIP levels, which will defeat the average STB.


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by deelmakur_
> *WNBC DT (28) is running very low power. Until they match the other network owned stations, viewers beyond 20 miles, or so, won't see much. I don't know what they're thinking. For openers, senior execs like the CEO's of NBC and GE, both live in suburban CT, beyond the reach of their own programming.*



The main signal lobe is centered for Fairfield.... within the projected grade A signal strength. Any more power would fry the Rainbow room and the observation deck when it is remodeled and opened.

GT


----------



## deelmakur

George, I'm in New Canaan, on high ground, using an elaborate, amplified system, with home runs to the 2 HDTV sets. One is using the Samsung 160 DirecTV box, the other a Sony 200. Signal strength averages 30%, but in short bursts. Not enough to grab signal. Conversely, 2, 5 (9), 7 all deliver fine. Have never even gotten a sniff of 11. There have been rumors of a power inrease on 28, but what you are describing would preclude that without a site change. Putting the stick on their own building would suggest they did it on the cheap, since there are better locations. What kind of message does that send to the affiliates?


----------



## SnellKrell

What you have told is an outright lie! It's proposterous!


Here are some facts:


The G.E. Building's 70 stories have a height, from sidewalk to roof of 850 feet. WNBC-DT's channel allocation is the lowest of WCBS, WABC, WNYW -

if all things were equal, the lower the channel allocation the less power is needed and allowed by the FCC.


The Conde Nast Building (4 Times Square) the home of many digital stations, all radiating more power than the sorrowful WNBC-DT, is 809 feet tall from the sidewalk to the roof (This excludes the transimission mast).


The truth is that G.E. has been reluctant to spend the money, put out the effort for establishment of a first-rate antenna site and the power to make it work properly. This company is waiting for the combiner on ESB, and possibly to see what will happen with the Freedom Tower.


The irony of all of this is that NBC has been so backward and reluctant to embrace high definition - when the network was established by RCA and guided to technological brilliance and risk-taking by Brig. General David Sarnoff - who must be rolling in his grave.


G.E. should be ashamed!


Gary Press


----------



## SnellKrell

In mentioning that higher power on the roof of the G.E. Building would be injurious to people in the Rainbow Room and/or the observation area seems strange to me!


At the Empire State Building, the 102nd Floor observation area was open to the public until 1998. After that time, and until the current work on the combiner was started, it was used for private functions, parties, etc.


With the tremendous amount of stations located at the Empire State Building eminating a comparitively huge amounts of radiationfrom the main mast and other transmission antennae, no one got "fried" or even glowed warmly.


I truly believe that G.E. has found a very convenient way to tell us that the company is protecting the public. I don't believe it!


Gary Press


----------



## George Thompson

Sorry, I don't argue with half truths and uninformed naysayers. I probably shouldnt even respond, period.


----------



## bjohn

anyone get 29-00 signals? is it family radio?

There's about 10 channels being broadcast 29-01 - 10


I get little or no signal. and the 49% bug with the 811.



BTW, PAX is still having the same pixelation problems with a 70% signal.

I guess no one cares?


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *anyone get 29-00 signals? is it family radio?
> 
> There's about 10 channels being broadcast 29-01 - 10
> 
> 
> I get little or no signal. and the 49% bug with the 811.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, PAX is still having the same pixelation problems with a 70% signal.
> 
> I guess no one cares?*



Are you referring to WTXF-DT ?? If so I do not see any additional sub channels.


----------



## deelmakur

I was in the FM business, involved with 103.5, when it was directional on the Trade Tower. Because of its directionality, it could not go on the master, and instead used a woeful, single bay on a short pole. Since it was next to a tourist walkway, the PA gave us big grief about radiation, some of which (the grief) came from OSHA, and other governmental oversight types. We resisted, and the PA unilaterally installed some useless shield underneath it. Normally I would have complained, but it actually reversed a lot of the directionality, and put signal over Jersey, where it wasn't supposed to be, so we kept our mouths shut. My point is, that deal about radiation may be coming from elsewhere, but one thing seems obvious. There is apparently no feeling at NBC that they should be competitive in the NYC HD arena.


----------



## bjohn




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Are you referring to WTXF-DT ?? If so I do not see any additional sub channels.*



29-01 FAMIL

29-02 INFO

29-03 WFME

29-04 KEAR

29-05 FRI#1

29-06 FRI#2

29-07 FRI#3

29-08 TAIWA

29-09 FUTUR

29-10 FUTUR


Can't really see any of them, but these are the channels.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *29-01 FAMIL
> 
> 29-02 INFO
> 
> 29-03 WFME
> 
> 29-04 KEAR
> 
> 29-05 FRI#1
> 
> 29-06 FRI#2
> 
> 29-07 FRI#3
> 
> 29-08 TAIWA
> 
> 29-09 FUTUR
> 
> 29-10 FUTUR
> 
> 
> Can't really see any of them, but these are the channels.*



Sorry Not sure what it is you are seeing. Even more bizarre is that WFME is assigned UHF channel 66 out of Milford NJ.


----------



## jcondon

UHF 29


I get a whiff of a signal but, no where near enough to lock on. I am just outside of White Plains.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *29-01 FAMIL
> 
> 29-02 INFO
> 
> 29-03 WFME
> 
> 29-04 KEAR
> 
> 29-05 FRI#1
> 
> 29-06 FRI#2
> 
> 29-07 FRI#3
> 
> 29-08 TAIWA
> 
> 29-09 FUTUR
> 
> 29-10 FUTUR
> 
> 
> Can't really see any of them, but these are the channels.*



It's WFME-DT from near the WNJM-DT tower site. Only the first two had anything on them when I visited, with the other 8 being blank.


The first one must rebroadcast the analog (I could get the digital but not the analog of WFME).


The second one just said "WFME-DT is doing tests" blah blah blah.


- Trip


----------



## sephiroth

Sorry for asking this as it has probably been answered a few times on this forum. i have been reading for 2 days, and still couldn't find a simple answer to my problem.


I only watch maybe an hour or so of TV a day, and I am planning to get the samsung 160 or the E86 OTA receiver. (It's not that I am cheap, just that I don't want to spend too much considering my DLP gets turn on maybe once every 2 days only)


I live on the 4th floor of a 7 storage building in NYC, I don't have any building blocking my immediate 180 degree line-of-sight.


Would someone be kind enough to tell me what kind of antenna I should get for this sort of situation? Do I have to stick the antenna on the roof of the building to get all HD signal or out the window (esthetically) would be good enough? Any brand/model number would be much appreciated.


----------



## dm145

re:sephiroth


You can always try several indoor antennas, and see which one works best. They cost between 20 -75 dollars. I use a 35 dollar Silver Sensor (UHF only) from outside the city and it works fine. You may want to start with an UHF/VHF to see if you can grab WPIX-DT (VHF).


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *
> 
> The truth is that G.E. has been reluctant to spend the money, put out the effort for establishment of a first-rate antenna site and the power to make it work properly. This company is waiting for the combiner on ESB, and possibly to see what will happen with the Freedom Tower.
> 
> 
> The irony of all of this is that NBC has been so backward and reluctant to embrace high definition - when the network was established by RCA and guided to technological brilliance and risk-taking by Brig. General David Sarnoff - who must be rolling in his grave.
> 
> 
> G.E. should be ashamed!
> 
> 
> Gary Press*



I agree with this statement....this is the ch that is showing the olympics this year? You know what...they have had enough time to get their act together. If the NBC building is too low to up the power than they should have by now found a spot somewhere that is higher. This NYC!!! They are a major network. They should be ashamed. Some PBS stations have higher power and a better set up than NBC. I will not watch anything on NBC...I know it doesnt make a difference. But Im not wathcing....I dont care if the olympics are on or its the last ch on the dial. They stink. Im so angry and I have tried so hard to set up different Ant's on my rooftop...why should I watch NBC. Currently Im picking up CBS....Fox...UPN...ABC...all with a good enough sig to watch without dropouts....NBC...no signal....Im not watching.

And leno could go sit on a frog for all I care...Im not watching him either!!!!


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Im not watching.
> 
> And leno could go sit on a frog for all I care...Im not watching him either!!!!*



Nice to see we are all having a rational discussion like adults and that it's not regressing to childish name-calling and tantrums.










I am not sure what all the fuss is about. I get NBC-DT perfectly from Astoria, Queens with a cheap Radio Shack roof antenna (UHF/VHF) pointed in the direction of ESB (of course, it;s probably less than 2 miles line of sight, so I could probably get CBS-DT with a piece of tinfoil as an antenna). But we *really* want to get PBS in HD and so far this ain't happenin'.


My only recent problems with the NYC channels were FOX going stretch (which I could compensate for with my STB's zoom setting, were there actually anything to watch on Fox), and all of the variations of Channel 11 went off the air for a while last week but came back. I kind of like what they (WB 11) do with widescreen - it's clearly zoomed and/or stretched, but I have not found it objectionable.


Does anyone have an update on the combiner project? And just to confirm, will PBS be part of that project? With the combiner, will it then be possible for most people in the NYC area to get PBS in HD without cable??


Later,


-Chris


p.s. I don't like Leno either (I wish Letterman would get his act together and go HD) but the Tonight Show does look phenomenal in HD.


----------



## Calabs

Can anyone explain why so many of you have had trouble getting WNBC in NYC, while here in E. Brunswick NJ some 45 miles away from the tower, I've NEVER had a problem with reception? Signal strength is alway around 75%. (George - I promise I won't bite your head off if you respond!)


----------



## MLM

Same here. NBC stable and clear in Bayside.


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Can anyone explain why so many of you have had trouble getting WNBC in NYC, while here in E. Brunswick NJ some 45 miles away from the tower, I've NEVER had a problem with reception? Signal strength is alway around 75%. (George - I promise I won't bite your head off if you respond!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Ditto. I had one bad day last week, but it was during the storm. Otherwise, NBC has been pretty much perfect for me here as well.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Can anyone explain why so many of you have had trouble getting WNBC in NYC, while here in E. Brunswick NJ some 45 miles away from the tower, I've NEVER had a problem with reception? Signal strength is alway around 75%. (George - I promise I won't bite your head off if you respond!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Well I guess the obvious and non-technical answer is it really depends on where you are. Calabs I am in Freehold not too far from you and I have never been able to pickup WNBC-DT. No biggie as I can receive WCAU-DT out of Philly.


I recall Mr. Thompson posting a map a while back http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...16#post2940616 (scroll to the bottom) that shows the approximate coverage area for WNBC-DT.


However like all signal reception there are many variables involved such as distance from the transmitter, obstructions in your area, height of the receiving antenna, ERP from the transmitter and transmitting signal pattern.


----------



## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Can anyone explain why so many of you have had trouble getting WNBC in NYC, while here in E. Brunswick NJ some 45 miles away from the tower, I've NEVER had a problem with reception? Signal strength is alway around 75%. (George - I promise I won't bite your head off if you respond!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I don't know. But I'm convinced that WNBC has done something in the last month or so that has reduced the signal strength. From the day that WNBC went live on the Conde Nast building, I've had absolutely no problem receiving it.


About a month ago, the signal dropped significantly. I can sometimes pick it up on my HD Tivo receiver, but usually with a lot of digital breakups. My Hughes HTL-HD just shows "no signal" for WNBC-DT all of the time.


I'm pretty much on the borderline of the map that George provided last year, so any reduction in signal strength would probably affect me before most other people.


----------



## RichYak

For reference purposes: WABC and WCBS have consistenly been rock steady for me. FOX and WNBC have never been watchable. I get the occasional lock, but that's all. Bergen County NJ.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bill Broderick_
> *I don't know. From the day that WNBC went live on the Conde Nast building, I've had absolutely no problem receiving it.
> *



WNBC-DT broadcasts from the GE building on top of 30 Rock Plaza.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Well I guess the obvious and non-technical answer is it really depends on where you are. Calabs I am in Freehold not too far from you and I have never been able to pickup WNBC-DT. No biggie as I can receive WCAU-DT out of Philly.
> 
> 
> I recall Mr. Thompson posting a map a while back http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...16#post2940616 (scroll to the bottom) that shows the approximate coverage area for WNBC-DT.
> 
> 
> However like all signal reception there are many variables involved such as distance from the transmitter, obstructions in your area, height of the receiving antenna, ERP from the transmitter and transmitting signal pattern.*



Thanks wward - I recall seeing that map, but couldn't remember where to find it. If the "resize to 5" is a ballpark area, I'm covered, but you're not. It doesn't go that far south. That MIGHT explain it. I've never turned my antenna around to Philly since WCAU increased their power, as NBC "has been beddy, beddy, good to me"!










Now if only the WB would come through, I'd be very happy.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Thanks wward - I recall seeing that map, but couldn't remember where to find it. If the "resize to 5" is a ballpark area, I'm covered, but you're not. It doesn't go that far south. That MIGHT explain it. I've never turned my antenna around to Philly since WCAU increased their power, as NBC "has been beddy, beddy, good to me"!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if only the WB would come through, I'd be very happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yeah I remember being on the fringe of the signal. Now as for WB well..... good luck there.


I remember hearing that their signal is quite directional (in addition to low power) and aimed at norhern NJ.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Yeah I remember being on the fringe of the signal. Now as for WB well..... good luck there.
> 
> 
> I remember hearing that their signal is quite directional (in addition to low power) and aimed at norhern NJ.*



Yeah, that and I've got a UHF only antenna! I know some have been able to pick it up with UHF as it's on channel 12, but I got squat!!! Now that's why I want th combiner to come online sooner rather than later.


----------



## George Thompson

Thanks for finding the Yahoo map. I am looking at a detailed map showing elevations and, unfortunately Freehold is in a big shadow in fringe area that extends east to Asbury Park on the south end of coverage.

Remember, WNBC-DT is only running 10K ERP from the GE building. The intent (big guess) was only to get a signal on while ESB (or another location) was under construction. I guess everyone capitulated (I dont know for sure) and the combiner space is under construction. I'll let you know more when I run into knowledgeable engineers at industry functions. Until then, hang in there. Please have faith that everyone wants to get on the air with a reliable signal.

GT


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Thanks for finding the Yahoo map. I am looking at a detailed map showing elevations and, unfortunately Freehold is in a big shadow in fringe area that extends east to Asbury Park on the south end of coverage.
> 
> Remember, WNBC-DT is only running 10K ERP from the GE building. The intent (big guess) was only to get a signal on while ESB (or another location) was under construction. I guess everyone capitulated (I dont know for sure) and the combiner space is under construction. I'll let you know more when I run into knowledgeable engineers at industry functions. Until then, hang in there. Please have faith that everyone wants to get on the air with a reliable signal.
> 
> GT*



Oh I'm sure that the GE building was never intended to be a permanent solution (or primary transmitter site) for WNBC-DT as is the same for the other broadcasters who put up transmission facilities where it was feasible (for what ever the reasons) until the combiner is finished or alternate site is completed.


Trust me I know how these things work. I didn't realize that the ERP was 10k that certainly explains my situation. Anyway any updates on the combiner are much appreciated and likewise if I hear of anything worth mentioning.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by deelmakur_
> *George, I'm in New Canaan, on high ground, using an elaborate, amplified system, with home runs to the 2 HDTV sets. One is using the Samsung 160 DirecTV box, the other a Sony 200. Signal strength averages 30%, but in short bursts. Not enough to grab signal.*



And I'm in Norwalk, 1/4 mile from the coast, also on an amplified system, with similar results. A friend in Stamford cannot get a signal either. I'd be surprised if anyone east of Portchester or Rye can get a useable signal for WNBC-DT.


I trust what George is saying about the power issues, but I'm confused. The ESB has an observation deck near many antennas, which are radiating a much more powerful signal than the GE building. With increased power levels at the GE building, are we talking about the radiation of the antenna "frying the observation deck", or are we talking about electronics, cabling, and circuits that will be fried because they can't handle the increased power loads?


----------



## jcondon

WNBC-DT.....


On that map I am near the northern edge. For months I could get a decent signal with a few drop outs per hour. In the last 2 months it has gotten a lot worse. Sometimes I can not lock on at all. Other times it is just unwatchable. Signal strength is way down. Perhaps they have lowered their power or 'adjusted' their antenna. It was never a strong signal but, was a lot better in the past. WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT, and WABC-DT come in almost perfect all most of the time. Pax also comes in pretty well.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *WNBC-DT.....
> 
> 
> On that map I am near the northern edge. For months I could get a decent signal with a few drop outs per hour. In the last 2 months it has gotten a lot worse. Sometimes I can not lock on at all. Other times it is just unwatchable. Signal strength is way down. Perhaps they have lowered their power or 'adjusted' their antenna. It was never a strong signal but, was a lot better in the past. WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT, and WABC-DT come in almost perfect all most of the time. Pax also comes in pretty well.*



Do you have trees in your signal path? If so, it could be those confounded leaves rearing their ugly heads!


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chriš_
> *I trust what George is saying about the power issues, but I'm confused. The ESB has an observation deck near many antennas, which are radiating a much more powerful signal than the GE building. With increased power levels at the GE building, are we talking about the radiation of the antenna "frying the observation deck", or are we talking about electronics, cabling, and circuits that will be fried because they can't handle the increased power loads?*



There's no "frying" involved. There is no scientific proof that some exposure to electromagnetic radiation is harmful to humans. Observation decks are not places where people spend much time. The real issue is with prolonged exposure. There have been some studies showing that prolonged exposure to EM radiation can affect melatonin levels, but this doesn't lead to cancer. It can, however, affect the way your body fights carcinogens and cancer cells. Higher levels are obviously more detrimental. In the case of the GE building, it can affect people who live/work at the same level in neighboring buildings, since they are there for longer periods of time.


As for neighboring circuits, they can easily be shielded from EM radiation, so there is not much concern there.


----------



## jcondon

Could be. There is one or two trees that were in my way before so I did move the antenna some. Perhaps when WNBC ups their signal or jumps on the Empire State building it will not be an issue.


One day NBC is ok the next bad. Doubt the leaves filled in much more in a day but, who knows.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Do you have trees in your signal path? If so, it could be those confounded leaves rearing their ugly heads!*


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *Could be. There is one or two trees that were in my way before so I did move the antenna some. Perhaps when WNBC ups their signal or jumps on the Empire State building it will not be an issue.
> 
> 
> One day NBC is ok the next bad. Doubt the leaves filled in much more in a day but, who knows.*



Did you notice the signal drop before or after you moved the antenna? The only reason I posed the possibility of leaves was because you had indicated good signal for months, then it dropped off.


----------



## jcondon

The original spot I picked for the antenna was no good. CBS and Fox was all I could get and they faded a lot with the wind. Took a few days for me to figure out it was a tree or two on the opposite side of the house on my neighbors yard. So I tried a different antenna in a different location (only about 6 feet away). I was then able to get get CBS and Fox with almost no drop outs. Later I added a distribution amp and was able to get ABC with some drop outs but, not too bad.


I decided to order a CM777 preamp. Got even better results with that and ABC (I got rid of the distribution amp). And now finally could get NBC 60s but, pretty solid some drop outs but, very watchable. It worked pretty well for about a month. Every so often now I will get 60s for NBC but, most of the time it is 40s and unwatchable. It was almost overnight. It went from 60s with lock to 40s or less with some lock. Two days tops. Right now I can not put up a bigger or taller antenna.


I have the Square shooter antenna, CM777 preamp and a DirecTV HR10-250 receiver. I have a direct cable run from the antenna to the preamp (about 25 feet) and another 35 feet or so to the receiver. Both cables are RG6. One is only a couple months old and the other a year or so. The older one is a Quad shielded cable and is all inside so it is not exposed to the weather.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Did you notice the signal drop before or after you moved the antenna? The only reason I posed the possibility of leaves was because you had indicated good signal for months, then it dropped off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## jcondon

Before I moved the antenna I could not get NBC. However I did not have the pre amp and I also changed the antenna. It worked well for about a month where it is now and I have not touched it prior to the problems with NBC. I just mentioned moving the antenna due to problems with trees since you mentioned it could be them damn leafy things causing my problem.







I know that they did in the past and I did not move to far so perhaps that is all it is. For now I can not (or at least will not) move the antenna or put up a bigger one. I could move the antenna another 4 or 5 feet forward. More then that and I think I would have to either hirer a professional or buy a larger antenna. Or both. I am hoping when NBC moves and/or ups their signal that will be enough.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Did you notice the signal drop before or after you moved the antenna? The only reason I posed the possibility of leaves was because you had indicated good signal for months, then it dropped off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## George Thompson

LOL, "Frying" is relative. I just wanted to convey that the stick that the antenna is on is not very tall and just on the roof compared to the mast height at ESB. The roof was not designed for a mast. The radiating element is much closer to working and visitor spaces at GE building.

RF levels are within EPA (alright OSHA) jurisdiction and are regulated, effects or not. I have spent years near transmitters myself and not sure if I have any effects. (Other than a slight twitch now and then and a sudden craving for a Glenlive or Glenfiddich on the rocks).

GT


----------



## njfoses

Is anybody else getting picture and audio dropout on fox ny?? Tonight during both north shore and casino the screen would go blank along with no audio for a couple seconds. Would happen every 5 minutes or so which is very annoying. Im not viewing ota but via comcast and i know this was the thread people were discussing fox's recent problems. Dont mean to intrude just trying to find out if this is a comcast problem or is fox still having problems?? Thank you for your time!!


Mike


----------



## RoccoP

George Thompson,


First off I do want to thank you for your insights into this effort. I do believe everyone is working to complete this as soon as possible.


What I do not understand is why someone who is running this project does not level set everyones expectations and once a month issue a status report to the general public who is waiting for HDTV in the NYC area. All it would take is a status email once a month to keep everyone informed and stop all the questions. There must be someone who is running this effort. If we could get a name and contact this individual all this speculation could be set aside.


If what I'm suggesting is outrageous just let me know. I have found out in my life that sometimes these people are isolated and are not aware that so many people are waiting for information which they would be more than happy to share. Any idea who might be able to provide this info?


Again, thanks for all your help


----------



## mortega31686

Just wanted to let you guys know that last night FOX 5 had North Shore in widescreen. I'm not sure if it was a 480 upconvert or real HD. This picture wasn't stretched though as in previous weeks, it was true widescreen. As for the breakup problems, I didn't experience any while watching North Shore. Chris, I'm in Stamford, CT. You think you can tell me who your friend is here so we might be able to chat sometime about reception. I get a hint of a signal of WNBC here at like 11% or so.

-Mike


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mortega31686_
> *I'm not sure if it was a 480 upconvert or real HD.*



Just an upconvert. Fox isn't HD yet. You'll be able to tell the difference when it is.


----------



## Swisher




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *There have been some studies showing that prolonged exposure to EM radiation can affect melatonin levels, but this doesn't lead to cancer. It can, however, affect the way your body fights carcinogens and cancer cells.*



KenA, I'm curious to know more about this. Do you have any links to *credible* sites with more information on detrimental effects of EM radiation?


----------



## sting0r

I totally agree, perhaps you could try to contact the engineering depts at WPIX, NBC, etc... and ask them about how you can go about getting a status on the project. It might not get you anywhere, but you never know....



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RoccoP_
> *George Thompson,
> 
> 
> First off I do want to thank you for your insights into this effort. I do believe everyone is working to complete this as soon as possible.
> 
> 
> What I do not understand is why someone who is running this project does not level set everyones expectations and once a month issue a status report to the general public who is waiting for HDTV in the NYC area. All it would take is a status email once a month to keep everyone informed and stop all the questions. There must be someone who is running this effort. If we could get a name and contact this individual all this speculation could be set aside.
> 
> 
> If what I'm suggesting is outrageous just let me know. I have found out in my life that sometimes these people are isolated and are not aware that so many people are waiting for information which they would be more than happy to share. Any idea who might be able to provide this info?
> 
> 
> Again, thanks for all your help*


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Swisher_
> *KenA, I'm curious to know more about this. Do you have any links to credible sites with more information on detrimental effects of EM radiation?*



You have to be careful about the internet sites. Many just have political agendas. I'm working on my masters in electrical engineering, specializing in wireless communications and this comes up from time to time in class. I've read a bit in the library (remember that place?), but haven't really come across anything worth reading on the internet. It is very interesting material and even though GT is only concerned about FCC regs, its always a good idea to know about health hazards at the work place. Especially for those of us who work in NYC.


----------



## Swisher

God bless Google. This site seems to be a good reference for written material on the topic. http://infoventures.com/emf/top/lit-rev.html Thanks for your input...and apologies to all for being off-topic.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *You have to be careful about the internet sites. Many just have political agendas. I'm working on my masters in electrical engineering, specializing in wireless communications and this comes up from time to time in class. I've read a bit in the library (remember that place?), but haven't really come across anything worth reading on the internet. It is very interesting material and even though GT is only concerned about FCC regs, its always a good idea to know about health hazards at the work place. Especially for those of us who work in NYC.*



I'm by no means an expert on this subject but at the end of the day doesn't RF & EM exposure only really become an issue when there is prolonged exposure at very high levels?


One of the buildings I work in is loaded with RF and computer equipment and I have been in and out of there thousands of times over the years


Christ I am more concerned about the microwave oven in my home and the Nextel phone I carry 24 seven/365 than broadcast equipment.


----------



## MartyJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *Well I guess the obvious and non-technical answer is it really depends on where you are. Calabs I am in Freehold not too far from you and I have never been able to pickup WNBC-DT. No biggie as I can receive WCAU-DT out of Philly.
> *



I am on the Manalapan/Milstone border and have never had a problem with WNBC-DT. It is usually rock solid. I could never reliably get WCAU-DT


----------



## bjohn

WLIW is showing 22-01 (no HD though)

22-03 is gone.

but 22-01 and 02 are showing the same thing.


PAX 31-01 is finally normal, no more pixelation.


----------



## mortega31686

Did WNBC boost their power up tonight alittle during Last Comic Standing? From the normal 11% I usually get, I am now getting 40-44%. Anyone else notice a signal strength change?


----------



## RoccoP

StingOr,


I actually did that with UPN. I received an answer 3 months ago that it was going to be July. When I've called NBC and WPIX I never had anyone return my call.


The bottom line is someone has got to know the name of someone who really knows what is going on.


--Rocco--


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *I'm by no means an expert on this subject but at the end of the day doesn't RF & EM exposure only really become an issue when there is prolonged exposure at very high levels?
> 
> 
> One of the buildings I work in is loaded with RF and computer equipment and I have been in and out of there thousands of times over the years
> 
> 
> Christ I am more concerned about the microwave oven in my home and the Nextel phone I carry 24 seven/365 than broadcast equipment.*



This is definitely getting off topic, but its the combination of high power and long term exposure. Your nextel does alter brain wave patterns while you're using it, but there are many possible reasons for this, and not all are EM related. I'd be more worried about second hand smoke


----------



## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mortega31686_
> *Did WNBC boost their power up tonight alittle during Last Comic Standing? From the normal 11% I usually get, I am now getting 40-44%. Anyone else notice a signal strength change?*



That's possible. I can't say when it happened, but the signal as of 10pm last night was better than it has been in weeks.


Because of the recent poor quality, I have my HD Tivo Season Pass for Last Comic Standing on the DirecTV version of NBC (NY4). But I have the L&O: SVU season pass on WNBC-DT. When I checked, last nights L&O: SVU had recorded perfectly for the first time in weeks.


----------



## jcondon

WNBC was a bit better then normal last night. 45-50s and some short drop outs. Probably had more to do with the weather then anything else. Still not strong enough for me to watch a show or movie on.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mortega31686_
> *Did WNBC boost their power up tonight alittle during Last Comic Standing? From the normal 11% I usually get, I am now getting 40-44%. Anyone else notice a signal strength change?*


----------



## Swisher

So, the first step to our new antenna has arrived in New York. Something to look forward to while they "work" on the combiner project...


----------



## tvuser1

Anyone have any luck in getting WNJN? All I get is signal, no sound or pictures.


Any idea when NY PBS will be broadcasting? It says "testing" on Antennaweb.org.


----------



## pabuwal

I'm guessing this thing is completed by Sept 1, based on what I have heard.


----------



## neo0285

does anybody think the combiner will be finished thios year, or should i just invest in a good antenna


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Swisher_
> *So, the first step to our new antenna has arrived in New York. Something to look forward to while they "work" on the combiner project...*



Liberty Tower?


I thought the name was Freedom Tower.


Not that I like one name over the other...


I still miss the WTC.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> does anybody think the combiner will be finished thios year, or should i just invest in a good antenna



Get that good antenna! By the time the combiner is complete you could of built another Brooklyn Bridge in less time.


Tony


----------



## slocko

I am determined to watch Enterprise in HD next season. So the combiner better be ready by then. Please, Please don't make me install an antenna on the roof.


Hey, maybe we can all pitch in and help build it !!!!!


----------



## vinnyv07

My money...if I had any.....is on that it isnt completed by Sept.


----------



## wward

Anyone else having problems with WNYW-DT? I'm watching the Mets Yanks game (3:55 EDT) and it looks like their signal took a dump. I cant get anything.


----------



## LINDELLTOM

WWARD, mine stayed on for the whole game.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by LINDELLTOM_
> *WWARD, mine stayed on for the whole game.*



Ok thanks I ended up going back to the DirecTv feed. Not sure what happened its still very weak for me.


What great game!!


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s236_
> *Get that good antenna! By the time the combiner is complete you could of built another Brooklyn Bridge in less time.
> 
> 
> Tony*



Aint that the truth!


----------



## RMSko

Has anyone experienced a weaker signal recently on NBC? I was fine for a bit then all of a sudden last night I lost signal strength. Has anyone else experienced anything similar.


Also, has NBC made any announcements whether they will have better signal strength by the Olympics?


Finally, I live in Westfield NJ, which is about 20 miles from NYC and about 60 miles from Philly. I have a new, pretty good large Radio Shack antenna (which cost me about $100) and was wondering whether I'd have any better chance at getting the Philly signals. Any thoughts?


----------



## George Thompson

Atmospherics can cause signal fluctuations. Not much to adjust on a 1K transmitter so probably not the cause.

Also, WNBC does not have control over the combiner construction at ESB, so making a statement as to when it will be completed would be senseless.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Now off to way upstate NY for some camping with the kids.

Happy 4th everyone.

GT


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Atmospherics can cause signal fluctuations. Not much to adjust on a 1K transmitter so probably not the cause.
> 
> GT*



That does make sense, but what was strange is that the signal strenght of each of the other locals didn't change at all and NBC had been fine for a while. Maybe something happened with my antenna, I'll check that out.


Any thoughts on Philly?


----------



## trekkerj

Why is WNBC-DT setting the Dolby 5.1 flag?


----------



## Firehawk295




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Why is WNBC-DT setting the Dolby 5.1 flag?*



My Sony receiver is showing the signal as DD 3/0 L/C/R channels. Dont think I've ever seen that before.


----------



## trekkerj

My Pioneer interprets whatever it is as 5.1, so the prologic decoding is gone and all I get is L/R channels. Annoying.


----------



## cpto

This is a very complicated and poorly understood topic from a physiological standpoint. It has to do with frequency, power, water content, density, shielding,and the sympathetic vibration of various molecular components of the body.


Friends of mine that worked on radar installations in the '50's used to hold their hands out in front of the radar transmitter to see if it was working. If the hand warmed up, it was.


But the only thing this thread is meant to discuss is the reception of OTA signals in the NYC area, as well as helpful information about upcoming transmitters, changes in transmitter location, and changes in transmitter power.


The effects of man-made radiation on the human body is an interesting topic, but would be best discussed in a dedicated thread.


Thanks.


Rick (Thread founder)


----------



## baimo

Must be vacation week


----------



## bjohn

I think cpto silenced everybody


----------



## dswallow

Soooo... how's that combiner project coming along...?


----------



## chrome

I live in Long Island, Suffolk county Brentwood

and lately my channel master is acting funny

I usually remote in the number 155 to point to the city to pick up locals like cbs 2-1 abc 7-1 fox 5-1

but now i have to enter in 177 and maybe 200 to have the antenna point to the city

when i go outside the antenna is almost pointing to connecticut

now for conn i use to enter in 255 and i would get 49-1 which is pbs and 30-1 nbc 59-1 upn etc...

but now i have to enter in 350 on the remote to move the antenna but now i lost pbs

am i doing something wrong?

i remember somebody on this board telling me that i have to reset the channel master

can anyone help me please


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrome_
> *I live in Long Island, Suffolk county Brentwood
> 
> and lately my channel master is acting funny
> 
> I usually remote in the number 155 to point to the city to pick up locals like cbs 2-1 abc 7-1 fox 5-1
> 
> but now i have to enter in 177 and maybe 200 to have the antenna point to the city
> 
> when i go outside the antenna is almost pointing to connecticut
> 
> now for conn i use to enter in 255 and i would get 49-1 which is pbs and 30-1 nbc 59-1 upn etc...
> 
> but now i have to enter in 350 on the remote to move the antenna but now i lost pbs
> 
> am i doing something wrong?
> 
> i remember somebody on this board telling me that i have to reset the channel master
> 
> can anyone help me please*



Your talking about the remote control operated rotor correct? Model # 9521a or something like that? I believe it's a common problem.....at least it is with the TWO that I have! I've learned to live with it. I just use my signal meter to "tell me where I am" as I scan the horizon......or I go out to the window and see which way the antenna is pointing. I'm sure there are multiple threads on this issue on the HW forum. I haven't seen one lately though. The manual had a method/format to "re-sync" the unit.....or something to that effect.


----------



## chrome

yes exactly a remote control rotor

i do not have the manual but will look later in the web to see what were the commands

thanks again


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Soooo... how's that combiner project coming along...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Im really depressed about the combiner....or the lack of a combiner. I know its difficult to coordinate projects in NYC.....but really, does anyone expect the combiner to be done this year? Nobody really knows for sure...you can say they are trying to get something done by the olympics or they are going to have it finished by september and the new tv season. But I have settled back into the mindset that it wont be done. Maybe I'll be suprised one day. I live in Staten Island and cant get NBC, WPIX, or WNET. And it looks like it will staY that way.


----------



## sting0r

Did anyone every find out who is responsible for managing the project? Maybe there isn't anyone and that's the problem. I believe George said that there was a problem moving some antennas around or some "crap" with the building owners, but I can't believe they would spend all a lot of money on buying such an array without sorting that stuff out first. Or maybe that is really the case and the projects is just a mess. Would be great if there was someone for us to speak to about what the real issue here is. At this point there is no one for us to complain to. I mean they been saying this thing is going to be done for the past 18 months...


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Im really depressed about the combiner....or the lack of a combiner. I know its difficult to coordinate projects in NYC.....but really, does anyone expect the combiner to be done this year? Nobody really knows for sure...you can say they are trying to get something done by the olympics or they are going to have it finished by september and the new tv season. But I have settled back into the mindset that it wont be done. Maybe I'll be suprised one day. I live in Staten Island and cant get NBC, WPIX, or WNET. And it looks like it will staY that way.*



Do you have DTV? The rumor is that D is adding all the networks over the next 2 months.


----------



## ctsshack

It is frustrating. I'm in Lodi, NJ and pickup all that's being broadcasted except NBC 4. My analog is perfect on all channels, just can't get 4 in HD/Digital. From what I understand, DirecTV is adding HD for ABC, and FOX, but haven't heard about NBC. In any case, to be so close to the city and can't pickup NBC is rather frustrating.


FYI, have a RS (really a Winguard) outdoor antenna in attic. (Not allowed to put on roof.) With 777 preamp. Like I said all the analogs come in crystal clear.


----------



## cpto

Chrome - did you sync the antenna before entering the station numbers? I have to resync mine every six months or so. It forces the antenna rotor to reset the beginning and ending stops. Try a resync and if that doesn't get the channels back, try reentering them after you've sync'd.


On my CM, you force a sync by turning the power on then pressing 00V where V is the down arrow.


You can also set it to autosync every 50 uses (I think it's 50) by entering 98^ and turn the autosync off by entering 98V


Rick


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *Do you have DTV? The rumor is that D is adding all the networks over the next 2 months.*



I've heard a lot of rumors but never that one.


----------



## Calabs

Anyone else been getting pixelation again on PAX while SS is high? It was fine for a while, but is up to its old tricks again! The D* feed unwatchable on Ch 31 (although 255 is much better). I'd prefer the "digital" station!


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sting0r_
> *but I can't believe they would spend all a lot of money on buying such an array without sorting that stuff out first.*



You would be surprised!


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I've heard a lot of rumors but never that one.*



See this thread from the HDTiVo Forum:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...ht=20+channels


----------



## bjohn

I'm getting PAX without any pixelations.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Anyone else been getting pixelation again on PAX while SS is high? It was fine for a while, but is up to its old tricks again! The D* feed unwatchable on Ch 31 (although 255 is much better). I'd prefer the "digital" station!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *See this thread from the HDTiVo Forum:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...ht=20+channels *



Great, another forum feeding the rumor mill.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *Do you have DTV? The rumor is that D is adding all the networks over the next 2 months.*



I have heard that FOX is coming...but I havent heard of any other HD Local ch's on DTV until a while. Certainly not as early as Sept of this year. I would certainly take the Local ch's on DTV but I would rathr pick them up via OTA....I have DTV now and I do a comparison of CBSHD on DTV and CBSHD OTA...and the OTA wins in my book. DTV's CBS doesnt look bad...it looks really good....in my opinion you cant beat OTA.


----------



## icemannyr

Sorry if this has been discused already but I just got a HDTV tuner for my PC,

I just got WNYW-DT the this week and I notice on all programming there

has analog grain noise on the video, even the FOX wide screen programming.

My tuner software says the video is 720P.


When I watch non HD shows on WCBS-DT and WNBC-DT they look a bit better then the non HD channels but it's not the same case with FOX.


Anyone else notice this?


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *When I watch non HD shows on WCBS-DT and WNBC-DT they look a bit better then the non HD channels but it's not the same case with FOX.
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice this?*



Haven't made this specific comparison but speculate it might be differences in all the conversions taking place. The source for non-HD broadcasts is 480i. Fox locally is now upconverting to 720p. Previously is was 480p for some primetime shows. The other networks, except for ABC's 720p, are upconverted 1080i for non-HD transmissions. If your STB/set is upconverting Fox's 720p to 1080i, that's another stage where artifacts and noise can be introduced. A native 720p display might handle Fox better, but unless it was a CRT-based multiscan front projector for either 720p/1080i (or a computer monitor), a native-720p display couldn't present some details in some true-1080i shows, especially live 1080i HD programming. Also, not sure if Fox is still sharing 44 UHF with WOR, but multicasting on H/DTV channels can't really help H/DTV fidelity, although suspect Fox and WOR aren't stressing the 19.39 Mbps of a HD channel. Rarely caught Fox daytime shows when they went out at 480i H/DTV, but recall they were mostly fuzzy video to start with. -- John


----------



## tvuser1

Which HDTV card do you have. I have a Fusion QAM. Fox always seems a bit less sharp to me, too. It might be the particular program. Some seem better than others.


----------



## icemannyr

I am using an HDTV Tuner PC card and WNYW-DT comes in at 720p.

The card does not let you change the resloution of the video.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> Im really depressed about the combiner....or the lack of a combiner. I know its difficult to coordinate projects in NYC.....but really, does anyone expect the combiner to be done this year?


*Here's something to really get you depressed from Andy (WPIX):*



"We (WPIX) like our peers are waiting for the combiner project to be completed. That work is picking up speed as the combiner itself is done (a very unique piece of engineering), and installation of it will commence soon. But like everything else we have done at the Empire State Building this project is complicated by having to work around other broadcast tenants and the age of the building itself. Consequently my best guess is we will be back to channel 33 just prior to the holidays. I wish it could be sooner."


Andy



Heres the link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=420631 


Tony


----------



## trekkerj

Hey, George, if you're out there, have you heard anything that would lead you to believe that we are in for ANOTHER delay, based on what the WPIX guy is saying? This is getting ridiculous. I thought it would be done by now.


----------



## vinnyv07

I never believed that the end of June begining of July deadline would ever happen. Any deadline that anyone gives you now is really just an estimate and should be taken with a grain of salt. I could wait...as I have no choice but to wait...WPIX doesnt have anything that I am missing a great deal. I would like to catch an occasional Met game in HD but I guess that will be in place for next season. NBC has a couple of programs that I like to watch...but Im really going to miss the olympics...even if the HD is delayed.


----------



## tvuser1

I've searched this forum, and I have read alot of messages ABOUT the combiner, but for someone new, what exactly is a combiner?


Thanks


----------



## George Thompson

In this instance a combiner allows several stations to share a single antenna array. Instead of having individual antennas for each station, with individual feedlines. A single broadband antenna is fed by half a dozen station transmitters that are combined and fed with a single feedline.

It cuts down on mast space, feed lines running up the mast and interferrence with other antennas.

I have not heard the latest on obstacles to project completion. One source, a VP at CBS called it the "Project from Hell". I'll let you know what I can when I hear any updates.

George


http://www.andrew.com/products/fdc/brdcst_pssv_pwr.aspx 
http://www.broadcast.net/pipermail/s...ry/000004.html 
http://www.mcibroadcast.com/pdf/5504..._combiners.pdf 
http://www.broadcastpapers.com/tvtra...0-%20print.htm 
http://www.rfrep.com/pdf_tw2/combiners.pdf


----------



## tvuser1

Thanks for the info and references. I would imagine that getting all those networks to agree, then getting the feeds, then tweaking the equipment, would be quite a challange. Hope it works out!


----------



## PDPnNJ

Is anyone having problems locking WNYW in Northern NJ ? I was able to lock this station without problems before but after it went down (a couple of weeks ago) for maintenance, the reception has been rather poor and erratic. I'm looking forward to see the All-Star Game in WS tonight but with this reception problem my chances are slim. ABC, NBC and CBS are coming in strong as always.


----------



## jcord51

Just being curious, what will be the degree of the combiner...312, 315 ?


----------



## vinnyv07

The Olympics is coming and I just wanted to know if anyone has heard anything about NBC increasing their power or finding somewhere else to house their Ant.

I would really like to grab NBC to watch the olympics. I heard from this forum that they going to try and have something in place for NY by the beginning of the olympics. I dont think the combiner will be ready by the beginning of the olympics....and NBC was waiting for the combiner and figured that it would be done in time. Does NBC have a plan B or are they just going leave everything the way it is now ...I would hope they had a plan B.


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *The Olympics is coming and I just wanted to know if anyone has heard anything about NBC increasing their power or finding somewhere else to house their Ant.
> 
> I would really like to grab NBC to watch the olympics. I heard from this forum that they going to try and have something in place for NY by the beginning of the olympics. I dont think the combiner will be ready by the beginning of the olympics....and NBC was waiting for the combiner and figured that it would be done in time. Does NBC have a plan B or are they just going leave everything the way it is now ...I would hope they had a plan B.*



I doubt you're going to see any change. They are at max power for their current location. It just doesn't make sense for them to move to a different location when the combiner is right around the corner (supposedly). I don't think you'll see any change until the combiner is done.


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *The Olympics is coming and I just wanted to know if anyone has heard anything about NBC increasing their power or finding somewhere else to house their Ant.
> 
> I would really like to grab NBC to watch the olympics. I heard from this forum that they going to try and have something in place for NY by the beginning of the olympics. I dont think the combiner will be ready by the beginning of the olympics....and NBC was waiting for the combiner and figured that it would be done in time. Does NBC have a plan B or are they just going leave everything the way it is now ...I would hope they had a plan B.*



The quote below is from George Thompson this pretty much answers your question.


"The main signal lobe is centered for Fairfield.... within the projected grade A signal strength. Any more power would fry the Rainbow room and the observation deck when it is remodeled and opened.

GT"


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Is anyone having problems locking WNYW in Northern NJ ? I was able to lock this station without problems before but after it went down (a couple of weeks ago) for maintenance, the reception has been rather poor and erratic. I'm looking forward to see the All-Star Game in WS tonight but with this reception problem my chances are slim. ABC, NBC and CBS are coming in strong as always.*



Ok, moving my indoor antenna to another spot in the house helped the WNYW reception but I can't see ABC, NBC or CBS from that spot. Does anyone know if WNYW moved its physical location in NYC ?


----------



## trekkerj

no


----------



## wward




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Ok, moving my indoor antenna to another spot in the house helped the WNYW reception but I can't see ABC, NBC or CBS from that spot. Does anyone know if WNYW moved its physical location in NYC ?*



The weather may have something to do with the signal anomalies; I have noticed when heavy cloud cover and heavy rain come through WNYW-DT's signal drops off dramatically, but so do the others but at least to me it's not as noticeable as say WCBS-DT's signal.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *The weather may have something to do with the signal anomalies; I have noticed when heavy cloud cover and heavy rain come through WNYW-DT's signal drops off dramatically, but so do the others but at least to me it's not as noticeable as say WCBS-DT's signal.*



Yeah, I took weather into the equation. The problem started way before the rain, I just need to see WNYW tonight hence the urgency










I'm all set in the new spot. I've tested for 2 hrs with no drops. With my luck, that spot won't be good tonight. Can't wait for D* to add FOX into their line-up


----------



## MJConnel

jcord51,


The combiner is in the ESB, current broadcast location for WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT and WWOR-DT (WNYW-DT sub-channel). If you go to antennaweb.org and enter your address, it will give you the compass bearing for the combiner listed as the bearing to any of the above channels.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wward_
> *The quote below is from George Thompson this pretty much answers your question.
> 
> 
> "The main signal lobe is centered for Fairfield.... within the projected grade A signal strength. Any more power would fry the Rainbow room and the observation deck when it is remodeled and opened.
> 
> GT"*



Thank You...Yes I remember reading about what George wrote....I figured that maybe they would have another site that they could move their Ant to just for the olympics. Like a temp site.


----------



## skyhawk223

Careful now MJ. The combiner is not yet operational.


----------



## sting0r

Well the olympics are like a month today, maybe the infamous combiner will be ready by then. Any ever figure out who actually is responsible for the combiner project?


----------



## MJConnel

Sorry about my misleading post above, I've edited it for clarity.

Thank you Skyhawk223 for pointing that out.


----------



## skyhawk223

You don't want to get people all excited.


----------



## Joisey-what-exit

Help !!!! Just purchased a CM3679 at the recommendation of my local shop. I live 25miles southeast of the city as the crow flys. I installed it on a second story chimney and am getting signals on 2.1 and 7.1 but no 5.1 Fox. I also get no signal at all on NBC but as I read here, not many others get it either. These are the only HD channels I can get. The antenna is set up properly and pointed correctly, but the signal is weak and drops out often. Any recommendations.


Thanks


----------



## dan57

Joisey-what-exit: I am in East Brunswick. I get Fox digital well and NBC usually pretty well. You might want to try a pre-amp if you aren't using one already.


----------



## trekkerj

Sometimes a small adjustment in orientation can mean picking up a station like that, and another small movement could make you lose the signal. Keep trying, FOX is pretty strong. Definitely get a preamp, either a ChannelMaster or Winegard.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *Joisey-what-exit: I am in East Brunswick. I get Fox digital well and NBC usually pretty well. You might want to try a pre-amp if you aren't using one already.*



Dan--not sure if you have a VHF antenna or not, but see if you can pick up Digital 8 out of New Brunswick (think the transmitter is in Somerset County).


----------



## vgoklani

Hi,


I am a beginner to this whole HDTV thing, and I was wondering, if get an HDTV tuner for my MAC (in my case a eyeTV500), will I be able to pull over OTA signals in NYC (I live in midtown). Please reply ASAP!!


----------



## neo0285

you should be able to get them all


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Dan--not sure if you have a VHF antenna or not, but see if you can pick up Digital 8 out of New Brunswick (think the transmitter is in Somerset County).*



No luck at all on channel 8. My antenna is UHF only. I seem to be pretty well closed out on PBS digital.


----------



## danq989

Irvington, NY 10533

21.3 miles N-NE from ESB, antenna bearing 212

Fusion II HDTV, Silver sensor + cheap 10dB Recoton cable pre-amp

Top floor of 3-story bldg


Over the last 3-4 days, my signal strength on WNBC-DT 28.1 (4-1) varied considerably (possible weather effects), from mid-50%s to high 70%s. Normally it's watchable if the strength is over 60%. But weirdly, even when signal strength was up, I got no picture at all, as though they'd stopped transmitting.


And this morning I get no signal at all! Are they finally moving their transmitter, or have they re-oriented the old antenna or lowered their output power? Or is it simple technical difficulties?


Info please!


For the thread:

Watchable stations at antenna oriented at ~212 degrees:
Code:


Code:


Call-sign   Channel       SigStrength     RecepQuality

WNYW 5.1      44          100% (21dB)     Excellent
WWOR 5.2      44          100% (21dB)     None (Fusion subchannel bug?)
WABC 7.1/2    45          90% (18dB)      Excellent
WCBS 2.1      56          100% (20dB)     Excellent
WNBC 4.1      28          0-75% (7-14dB)  NONE/OK
WPXN 31.1     30          89% (17dB)      Excellent
WNJN 50.1-5   51          80% (16dB)      Good

Watchable stations at other orientations:
Call-sign   Channel       SigStrength     RecepQuality

WRNN          48          80+%            OK, slightly intermittent 
WFME          29          52% (10dB)      Clear, but no programming
WTBY 54.1     27          50% (10dB)      Intermittent


---DanQ989


----------



## neo0285

Is 4.1 off the air this morning?


----------



## Scott G

WNBC-DT is completely off the air. I am getting zero on my signal meter, and all my other stations are fine. It is still on the air on Cablevision, however. Something has to be wrong with the OTA signal.


Scott


----------



## trekkerj

[wishful thinking]

maybe they took it down because they are moving it to the combiner![/wishful_thinking]


----------



## RMSko

I just checked NBC 4-1 (it's around 4:45 pm) and I'm getting it fine. Anyone else?


----------



## MoneyMINTR

newbie to HDTV here,


Read quite a bit in this thread. Anway, I'm getting my first HDTV set. Sony 34XBR960. I live in Essex county, NJ. About 30-40 miles from NYC. So, I'm going to get a CM3679 antenna. Do you think I need a preamp? motorized rotor? I also have comcast basic cable. Should I stick with OTA?


Thanks,

MM


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MoneyMINTR_
> *newbie to HDTV here,
> 
> 
> Read quite a bit in this thread. Anway, I'm getting my first HDTV set. Sony 34XBR960. I live in Essex county, NJ. About 30-40 miles from NYC. So, I'm going to get a CM3679 antenna. Do you think I need a preamp? motorized rotor? I also have comcast basic cable. Should I stick with OTA?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> MM*



Doesn't Comcast include all of the local HD channels in their HD package? If yes, I wouldn't worry about OTA. I have DTV and unfortunately need the OTA.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MoneyMINTR_
> *Should I stick with OTA?
> *



Cable HD can provide premium movie channels such as HBO in HD as well as HDNet or INHD, concentrated but not limited to DBS/cable. (HDNet is on some cable systems, and a new service, USDTV, outlined in several forums here, delivers cable-like programming by using multicasting with OTA channels in some locations.) Go to antennaweb.org to see, geographically, how omnidirectional or rotatable antennas might be useful in your location. -- John


----------



## RMSko

Has anyone else been having a problem with NBC lately? For me it went out around two days ago (to extremely low signal levels) and hasn't come back since.


----------



## trekkerj

I have a better question--what the heck is happening with the combiner. August is around the corner.


----------



## sting0r

There is no combiner, haven't you figured that out by now? There are no concrete plans ever to fix this crappy situation until the freedom tower is built. Has anyone ever seen anything released to the public which can confirm that there is actually a project for this? All information has been anecdotal. We can't even figure out who is responsible for this project. How many dates have been given in the past. It's been like 2 years in the making, that must be some crazy antenna array. At this point I believe it's all been a cruel joke. Please some one prove me wrong.


----------



## Infominister

The combiner, itself, is not the problem. It's that radio station that's "squatting" in the ESB space they need for the combiner.


----------



## sting0r

So we are being told, before that it was something else. Personally I have written off any hopes of getting better ota reception unless I move. Currious, what radio station is it? Maybe we can all email them and tell them to move out!


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *The combiner, itself, is not the problem. It's that radio station that's "squatting" in the ESB space they need for the combiner.*



Do you know what radio station? Z100? Hot97?

I assume it would have to be a fairly well known station or their rear ends would be kicked out of there pretty fast. Please don't tell me the #1 DMA in the country is severly lacking in DTV transmission because of some unknown AM station.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *Do you know what radio station? Z100? Hot97?
> *



It's a Latin FM station, but I don't want to be the one to disclose the station and start trouble for my contact. From my research, I can tell you that it's owned by a a Miami-based anti-Castro entity with strong ties to the Bush Regime. And you know how far the Bushies will go in pandering to the far right, rather than enabling service to the greater New York metropolitan area.


----------



## Ken Ross

It is amazing that the #1 TV market in the country has what is among the worst OTA HD content in the country. It shows how little the broadcaster's actually care about HD. This is somewhat below their lowest priority.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *It is amazing that the #1 TV market in the country has what is among the worst OTA HD content in the country. It shows how little the broadcaster's actually care about HD. This is somewhat below their lowest priority.*



With no ratings system for HD, they really do not care.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *The combiner, itself, is not the problem. It's that radio station that's "squatting" in the ESB space they need for the combiner.*



Is this the problem? I too have given up hope. I really dont think a combiner will happen this year. One radio station? I think if someone knows the radio station in question it would be good for us to at least know which one it is. I do find it hard to beleive that one radio station is holding up this process. Please say it isnt so.


----------



## Megahurts

Without naming names, here is a URL with a link to the offending station
http://www.fybush.com/site-031120.html 

Notice the picture of their twin BE transmitters.

I remember someone saying that Leona H. interferred with the move.


----------



## Infominister

In case it wasn't clear enough, you don't have to look too far down on the right to see the call letters in question.


----------



## SteveWinNJ

Interesting article and pics,







Thanks!


----------



## JoeCraw

I am assuming this is the station that needs to move:

http://www.nyradioguide.com/cgi-bin/info.cgi/WCAA-FM


----------



## Infominister

That's the one. What are we going to do?


----------



## Chriš2

WCAA- 610 WATTS!!? Holy cow, my hairdryer has 10 times the power of that station. How many people listen to that station anyway? Can their signal even make it as far as Spanish Harlem?


----------



## George Thompson

Actually I think it said it was a class B1 at 2450W.(ERP?) At that height it should cover the tristate region very well.

GT


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Actually I think it said it was a class B1 at 2450W.(ERP?) At that height it should cover the tristate region very well.
> 
> GT*



I was looking at this link that says:
_"Next door to WXTV is WCAA (105.9), the baby of the Empire FM signals with just 610 watts ERP"_


Whether that is acurate I don't know. I did try to tune it in about 30 minutes ago from Norwalk, CT, and I couldn't lock it in. It was competing with another station on the same frequency.


----------



## trekkerj

George, what does this mean? Is the combiner ever going become a reality?


----------



## Swisher

I see monkeys flying out of a dark hole....what is that???


----------



## Chriš2

According to this press release , WCAA appears to just be a simulcast of 92.7 WZAA. This is the Univision station that killed one of my favorite radio stations, WLIR (originally WDRE). That could be where the B1 at 2450W figure is coming from.


So I guess we are being held up by a weak simulcast of a latino station. This just keeps getting better and better.


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *According to this press release , WCAA appears to just be a simulcast of 92.7 WZAA. This is the Univision station that killed one of my favorite radio stations, WLIR (originally WDRE). That could be where the B1 at 2450W figure is coming from.
> 
> 
> So I guess we are being held up by a weak simulcast of a latino station. This just keeps getting better and better.*



i really miss the WDRE/WLIR


----------



## baimo

si


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *It's a Latin FM station, but I don't want to be the one to disclose the station and start trouble for my contact. From my research, I can tell you that it's owned by a a Miami-based anti-Castro entity with strong ties to the Bush Regime. And you know how far the Bushies will go in pandering to the far right, rather than enabling service to the greater New York metropolitan area.*



Yet another reason to vote for Kerry! Too bad we're not a swing state


----------



## Infominister

Speaking of "swing states," Univision is based in that ultimate swing state of Florida.


----------



## vinnyv07

Very sad indeed. Is anyone going to get in touch with this radio station? Maybe if the pressure is on they will move. So, if what I understand is correct...if this station doesnt move...there is no combiner possible?


----------



## SnellKrell

Here's some correct information concerning WCAA: License was transferred from Hispanic Broadcasting Corp. to Univision - September 2003. Univision's chairman and founder is A. Jerrold Perenchio; corporate offices in L.A. - 310-556-7676. Univision Radio, the parent of WCAA, is headed by McHenry T. Tichenor, Jr. The radio division is headquartered in Dallas - 214-525-7700.


If, as we suspect, WCAA is holding up the combiner, above are the people in power to change the station's position.


Gary Press


----------



## Scott G

So what is the bottom line here ? Is the combiner permanently scrapped ? Is that it ?


----------



## Infominister

No, it's not been scrapped. It's completed and literally waiting at the door where this radio station is occupying the space designated for it.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *No, it's not been scrapped. It's completed and literally waiting at the door where this radio station is occupying the space designated for it.*



So what exactly does that mean for the combiner ? Will the radio station move ? Can they be forced to move ?


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *So what exactly does that mean for the combiner ? Will the radio station move ? Can they be forced to move ?*



What we need is a win-win resolution for all parties involved. I guess the magic word is money.


"We need this space---we'll pay/offset your moving expenses to another spot...."


----------



## s236

Never had any problems picking up NBC but last night and now this morning I'm getting no OTA signal, anyone having this problem as well?


Thanks, Tony


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s236_
> *Never had any problems picking up NBC but last night and now this morning I'm getting no OTA signal, anyone having this problem as well?
> 
> 
> Thanks, Tony*



I was getting a zero reading which means NBC is off the air.


Scott


----------



## John Chu

Anyone know why they didn't do last night's Mets game at Shea Stadium in HD on WPIX?


WB 11 usually carries all the home games in HD...

(I'll check today's 1pm game...)


Okay...let me start some wild speculation/rumor...


Hmmm...could they be doing work on the combiner?


----------



## jcord51

ABC/NBC no transmission-nada....


----------



## fourthstooge

No WNBC-DT here either . . . WABC-DT is fine.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> No WNBC-DT here either . . . WABC-DT is fine.



Thought it was just me! WABC-DT is fine for me as well.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Univision's chairman and founder is A. Jerrold Perenchio; corporate offices in L.A. - 310-556-7676. Univision Radio, the parent of WCAA, is headed by McHenry T. Tichenor, Jr. The radio division is headquartered in Dallas - 214-525-7700.
> 
> 
> If, as we suspect, WCAA is holding up the combiner, above are the people in power to change the station's position.
> 
> 
> Gary Press*



This thread has 2,368 posts, as I write, and 122,283 views. Maybe if enough of us called the numbers above we'd at least put WCAA on notice that they're an obstacle to the viewing rights of millions of people in the New York metropolitan area.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *This thread has 2,368 posts, as I write, and 122,283 views. Maybe if enough of us called the numbers above we'd at least put WCAA on notice that they're an obstacle to the viewing rights of millions of people in the New York metropolitan area.*



What exactly do we say?


"Get out"! "We won't watch or listen to Univision"! (as if we do) I don't mean to be negative. On the contrary. I'm looking for a strategy to ensure we all get the positive result of a fully funtional combiner!


----------



## RMSko

No NBC for me either, all others are fine (or at least no change).


----------



## beavis

No NBC here either. No Mets in HD on WPIX today. WTF?


----------



## DTVDAD

Just fixed my antenna and saw no NBC, so I thought it was me or my 921. Glad you guys were here to tell me it is NBC and not me. ABC is comming in fine, just no NBC in Huntington.


----------



## TAKKL

NBC-DT just came back on.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> NBC-DT just came back on.



Same here! Guess the NBC-DT turn-on-the-switch engineer just got back from a very long coffee break










Tony


----------



## RMSko

I am now getting some signal strenght from NBC, but much worse than before the "shutoff." Anyone else having similar results?


----------



## neo0285

yeah i noticed it too, it is a weaker signal.


----------



## John Mason

Anyone know whether ABC's new24/7 news channel is available locally? Read it started at noon today. A subchannel on WABC-DT? Cable only? Thanks. -- John


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *Anyone know whether ABC's new24/7 news channel is available locally? Read it started at noon today. A subchannel on WABC-DT? Cable only? Thanks. -- John*



ABC has been multicasting in 7-2 with mainly news for a while. Not sure if the format you are referring to is somewhat different.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *A subchannel on WABC-DT? Cable only? Thanks. -- John*



Actually I think OTA only. Cablevision doesn't even carry WABC-DT. Don't know about TWC though.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *What exactly do we say?
> 
> 
> "Get out"! "We won't watch or listen to Univision"! (as if we do) I don't mean to be negative. On the contrary. I'm looking for a strategy to ensure we all get the positive result of a fully funtional combiner!*



I think what we need is an article in the New York Times or similar regarding the sorry state of affairs for HDTV in the NYC area, with particular focus on the ESB and the problems there. Right now it looks like the only people that know about this fiasco are the people working on the project and the small group of enthusiasts that happen to come acoss this thread.


----------



## slocko

that is a great idea. i bet their technology section is always looking for new material.


----------



## dturturro

If you want action out of government types the Wall Street Journal would probably reach a more receptive audience.


----------



## RMSko

For anyone that's interested, it appears that the rumors are getting stronger and that DirecTV will be adding the locals for O&O networks. For more detail, see this thread (some of the posts were made by someone who works at DirecTV):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...light=olympics


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *For anyone that's interested, it appears that the rumors are getting stronger and that DirecTV will be adding the locals for O&O networks. For more detail, see this thread (some of the posts were made by someone who works at DirecTV):
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...light=olympics *



info from a forum, it must be true


----------



## vinnyv07

The Combiner is supossed to include CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, UPN, WB, and WNET...is that correct? And one radio station is blocking this? All of these huge ch's in one of the biggest cities in the world? I dont get it. If they could put the combiner in the radio stations current location...why cant they use the area that cbs is in currently or Fox's current location.....I realize that I might not understand what is really needed for this combiner...but it seems to me that a radio station would occupy a smaller space than a major tv network would. Or is the radio stations space needed in addition to the area that they have next to the radio station. Im just a little confused on how one radio station could stop this project.


----------



## dm145

Possession is 9/10 of the law. Just because they are a "little" station does not mean squat. (that's what leases are for)


----------



## Infominister

dm145 is correct. The only thing we can do is exercise our free speech rights and our index fingers by dialing the phone numbers for the station provided here. There are 123,495 views in this thread as of this post. Call early and call often, everyone.


----------



## michaelk

the link a couple posts back about the transmission facitlites at ESB say that a couple other people moved out already in contiguous areas, so i would guess that they need those 2 already vacated areas plus the crappy little stations spot too.


It is pretty darned amazing though- looks to me from the above link and the info here that the crappy little station has all of 2 or 3 equipment racks in their toom. So what's the big deal- why doesnt nbc spot them the 10 or 20k to pay for moving? Maybe they have a really good view out their window and dont want to give it up (only half in gest).


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *The Combiner is supossed to include CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, UPN, WB, and WNET...is that correct?*



Correct, except for Fox.


----------



## pabuwal

D* has announced they will show NBC's HD olympic coverage this summer.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040728/285671_1.html


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pabuwal_
> *D* has announced they will show NBC's HD olympic coverage this summer.
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040728/285671_1.html *



AND Bravo HD+!!!!!!!! Very nice indeed!


----------



## RMSko

Actually, it's much more than just Bravo - it includes NBC HD (at least for those of us in the NYC area)! This is great news, especially since NBC's OTA transmission stinks. I just hope it is all completed before the fall season (the Olympics will definitely be on D, it just may not be through the new O&O sNBC station).


----------



## slocko

i dont' understand the USA part. I already get USA channel. That is the one with Deadzone right?


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *i dont' understand the USA part. I already get USA channel. That is the one with Deadzone right?*





> Quote:
> "DIRECTV has always been a valued partner," said David Zaslav, president, NBC Universal Cable. "Through this agreement we were able to secure distribution for our two newest networks, USA and SCI FI, digital retransmission for the NBC O&O stations, deliver on DIRECTV's request for more high-quality HD programming by providing them with NBC's special 2004 HD Olympic coverage and Bravo HD+ and provide them with Universal's first-run movies and specials to run on pay-per-view. We are committed to providing our distribution partners with the programming that they need to drive their businesses."



David refers USA and SCI FI as their newest networks because NBC recently acquired them thru a merger with Universal Studios.


----------



## dm145

I thought this was an NYC OTA thread only? There are several threads on this in the HD Programming Forum.


----------



## dturturro

Considering the state of the Combiner, I'd say this is very relavant to us in NY.


----------



## Infominister

You bet. WNBC-DT was the only major network affiliate I was missing with my rooftop antenna.


----------



## pabuwal

It seemed half the people in this thread were straining themselves to get WNBC in time for the Olympics. It seems a certainty the combiner won't be up in time.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Considering the state of the Combiner, I'd say this is very relavant to us in NY.*



I'm sure it is, but it should be taken to an appropriate thread. This is an over-the-air ONLY thread.


Thanks for your cooperation.


Mel


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> It seemed half the people in this thread were straining themselves to get WNBC in time for the Olympics. It seems a certainty the combiner won't be up in time.



I'm the other half that can receive NBC and can't wait to watch the Olympics in HD...You can come over my place and watch it because that combiner won't be ready until November!


Tony


----------



## pabuwal

Oh, I get all the Philly channels (including NBC) and NYC channels (except WNBC) so I am in great OTA shape! I get every network with duplicates in several cases.


My guess is D* will have the big 4 NYC digital channels up by the end of the year. Just in time for the combiner!


----------



## pmalve

This is my first time in the NYC forum so forgive me if this has already been answered. I have a Voom receiver which they just added software so we could add our own ota channels. Before, we could only get what they mapped for us which were the Hartford/NewHaven channels. I live in Litchfield county, 77 miles from ESB according to antennaweb. Does WNYW/WWOR have a higher broadcasting power than WCBS? I thought that WCBS was the strongest in NY. I get all 3 but WCBS is weaker. As our local CBS station broadcasts at such low power you have to live within 5 miles to get it I am glad to get WCBS. Do they all broadcast from same tower? Maybe WCBS is lower on the tower than the other 2. Hope combiner lets me get WPIX although it broadcasts on the same channel as one of our Hartford stations. Hopefully antenna is directional enough to not pick up signal behind it. Have CM 3671 with CM7777 preamp and am very happy with it.


----------



## NS324

I can't answer all your questions pmalve, but I can tell you that when the WPIX will be on the combiner, they will not be broadcasting on channel 12 - they'll be going back to the channel that had been allocated to them (I believe it is 33, but I'm not sure).


I too have always had a stronger indicated signal strength on WNYW than on WCBS, but I believe that in my case it is environmental (no line of sight, indoor antenna, etc.).


----------



## GoldenBoy

Is the FOX 5 broadcast actually true HD these days? I notice that some of the programming is actually in 16:9 and seemingly HD (Tru Calling, Quintuplets, Baseball, NASCAR, etc.) but for seem reson the picture just doesn't look that great to me. Are they upscaling or is it just over-compressed?


One other thing - what exactly _is_ going on with the combiner? I still can't pick up any OTA channels past WPIX other than the two Spanish channels (41 and 47) which I never watch because, er, mi no habla Espagnol.


----------



## trekkerj

No, FOX will not be true HD until the football season starts.


----------



## GoldenBoy

I just didn't think it looked like true HD, but it still looks better than it used to. Thanks for the answer.


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pabuwal_
> *It seemed half the people in this thread were straining themselves to get WNBC in time for the Olympics. It seems a certainty the combiner won't be up in time.*



My money is on the combiner being ready for the Olympics. I predicts positive "news" in a week or so.


Harry

Admin @ http://www.hdtvforum.com


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

I just noticed that WCBS now has a 480i sub-channel. Right now, they're showing people setting up the stage for the convention. Is this going to be permanent, or is it only for convention coverage?


----------



## harican

looks permanent!!!


----------



## trekkerj

Great, there goes the PQ of the HD channel. I thought ABC was supposed to multicast a news channel. Never heard anything about CBS.


HDugan, do you know something about the combiner that we don't, or are you just taking a guess? Please share.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *My money is on the combiner being ready for the Olympics.*



Yea, the 2008 Olympics (if we're lucky).


----------



## jcord51

I live 8 mile from the ESB and have a lock on "45" Wabc channel 7. I get nothing with a signal of 96 strengh. I do get channel 4 and 5. I have a Dish 921 PVR.


----------



## vinnyv07

Thanks DTV for NBCDT....I cant get it OTa here in Staten Island.....and Im not one of those positive people when it comes to the combiner being up and running. Directv to the rescue!!


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *I just didn't think it looked like true HD, but it still looks better than it used to. Thanks for the answer.*



In preparation for HD this fall, Fox DT-44 has been up-converting their 480p content to 720p. Their equipment is better than anything on the consumer market, so it will definitely look better than the 480p content that our TVs/STBs up-converted.


----------



## seldenpat

Anyone else notice the .2 subchannel on CBS-DT? Crappy stretched 480i feed (if that).


Also, I just started getting PAX (31.1). Where are they broadcasting from?


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *Anyone else notice the .2 subchannel on CBS-DT? Crappy stretched 480i feed (if that).
> 
> 
> Also, I just started getting PAX (31.1). Where are they broadcasting from?*



Yeah, Unorigianl Nick noticed 2.2 about 7 posts up.


and


New York - WPXN TV-31

30 Rockefeller Plaza 6th Floor

New York, NY 10112

Phone: 212-664-4444

Fax: 212-664-4799


----------



## Infominister

I don't think PAX is transmitting from the RCA building; if so, why would I be able to get their signal OTA in northern Westchester, but not WNBC-DT?


----------



## dm145

I put that info up, in case someone who really cares to know where the antenna is could call and ask. I do not care where it is for two reasons, I get it at 100 % and they have no HD proramming.


----------



## George Thompson

I think it is just mailbox space. No PAX xmitter on GE building. 6th fl is local.

GT


----------



## Joisey-what-exit

Oh well, I guess it's no combiner for the Olympics....... I better get used to WNBC 4 blahhhhhh.....


----------



## Joisey-what-exit

Oh well, I guess it's no combiner for the Olympics....... I better get used to WNBC 4 blahhhhhh.....


----------



## sting0r

There is no combiner, get used to it. I still have yet to see any proof that this project exists or ever did exist. I think its just a figment of our imagination. I think they are just waiting until we can get all the channels via Sat or Cable, then they won't have to bother.


----------



## Morg111

What happened to WCBS-DT. I receive every channel, both digital and regular off air. But over the past few days I haven't been able to get CBS or its digital station. Are they down?


Marc


----------



## Morg111

An update... Ok this is strange. I can get regular off air CBS 2 but I don't get WCBS-DT and...... here's the kicker, I get all my Directivo HD channels except channel 80 WCBS-DT. What's the story with CBS?



Marc


----------



## jcord51




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sting0r_
> *There is no combiner, get used to it. I still have yet to see any proof that this project exists or ever did exist. I think its just a figment of our imagination. I think they are just waiting until we can get all the channels via Sat or Cable, then they won't have to bother.*



* You hit the nail on the head! See the Satellite companies can not offer HD network packages if YOU have an alternative way of capturing their signals. HD is money to all concerned and the loser is us. What gets me is the the FCC mandated that all TVs larger than 36" must have an OTA tuner if manufactured on April of this year.*


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *What happened to WCBS-DT. I receive every channel, both digital and regular off air. But over the past few days I haven't been able to get CBS or its digital station. Are they down?
> *



WCBS-DT recently added a subchannel. It is possible that some tuners may not like this change and would require a channel rescan. This is probably not your problem since no one else has complained in the week since they started multicasting, but I would rescan just in case.


----------



## GoldenBoy

I have also recently become able to pick up the PAX digital broadcast. I discovered this two days ago after reading the post in this thread. Another digital channel I was unable to pick up before that I have seen coming through now is channel 68 (I forget the call letters right now) but as I don't speak Spanish, this doesn't help me any.


----------



## clanger

Is anybody getting a signal from 7-1. For the past two day I'm getting nothing at all. I normally get a signal in the 60- 70 range

Thanks


----------



## vinnyv07

I have now lost my sig for ABC...Im thinking its the trees blocking the signal. All my other signals for CBS , Fox , UPN remaing the same ...and ABC which was the same exact signal as FOX , is gone. I went up on my roof and tried to adjust the Ant to no avail. With no combiner in site my only hope now is Directv and maybe October when the leaves fall. I have the Ant on my roof 25 ft from the ground plus a mast of around 12 ft up from that. Abc joins NBC, WNET, and WB as no shows. Im very depressed...I have given up.


----------



## vinnyv07

IM not alone? I thought i was the only one!! Clanger where do you live? Im in Staten Island and I havent had a sig on ABC for around 2 days. I just spent around an hour adjusting my Ant to no avail.


----------



## clanger

I'm in St. James, out on Long Island. CBS and Fox are fine for me also. I have my attenna in the attic but never had a problem with ABC before yesterday.


----------



## seaford

I am in the same boat with no CBS on OTA or D*.

Well, I will rescan, but others have it no problem?


Strange.


AND speaking of DirecTV they have changed their HD webpage with lots of mention to OTA HD. It does say that the olympics will be available in HD via D*, but I can't tell you that in this thread


----------



## Infominister

WABC is currently doing work on their transmitter tower on the Conde Nast building. They're at low power until the work is completed, which will probably be toward the end of next week. You may even see a little more juice at that time. Oh, and this is unrelated to the combiner project except insofar as the combiner's been delayed so often that they had to get on with this upgrade.


----------



## netman

ABC HAS been there but real weak (Deer Park). Their signal is not currently usable for me. Seemed logical they were working on something. I don't see anything on 56-2 at the moment; just blank. It is labeled CBS-SD like ABC does so I wonder what they are planning.


----------



## pabuwal

More funny news: D* subs will be able to pickup WNBC-DT before those who use OTA. D* will add it around the end of August.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pabuwal_
> *More funny news: D* subs will be able to pickup WNBC-DT before those who use OTA. D* will add it around the end of August.*



NOT TRUE! There are those occasions when tropospheric ducting is strong enough were I can pull it in for a night...


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pabuwal_
> *More funny news: D* subs will be able to pickup WNBC-DT before those who use OTA. D* will add it around the end of August.*



Oh, yeah. I just hurt myself laughing.


I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick that football.


sigh...


----------



## GoldenBoy

Well, I feel for you folks because I am able to pull in the digital signal for FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, WB, PAX and WFUT(68-1). What I wish I could pick up instead of those last two is WNET and WNJN. I know that the latter is a long shot unless I put my antenna on a rotary but maybe if WNET boosted it's signal strength I would pick it up.


BTW, for those who don't recall, I'm in Maspeth with an antenna on the roof with a clear view of the ESB and it's pointed right at it.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *ABC HAS been there but real weak (Deer Park). Their signal is not currently usable for me. Seemed logical they were working on something. I don't see anything on 56-2 at the moment; just blank. It is labeled CBS-SD like ABC does so I wonder what they are planning.*



I don't think it has anything to do with 56-2 or CBS. They're just juicing up their transmission a little.


----------



## RMSko

Has anyone's ABC signal weakened recently?


----------



## trekkerj

Read a few posts back.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Read a few posts back.*



Thanks. I actually have been following this thread and reading all the posts and for some reason all I was able to see was all posts through 7/28/04, even after refreshing the screen. After I read your post, I thought something must be wrong and it might be a good idea to restart my PC, whcih I did. Once I did that, everything came back perfectly. Anyway, as for ABC it's good to see that it's an ABC problem and not a problem with my setup.


----------



## Infominister

It's not really a "problem" -- more of an elective upgrade.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *It's not really a "problem" -- more of an elective upgrade.*



Which from what I understand will increase ABC's power. I just wish NBC could do this in some way. Waiting for the combiner seems like a lost cause.


----------



## Infominister

As a DirecTV customer, I'll be in pretty good shape between my OTA reception of WABC-DT and NBC, CBS and FOX available by satellite. Now, if only I could get PBS Channel 13 I'd be able to just sit back and enjoy. (Don't really have much use for UPN or the WB.)


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I don't think it has anything to do with 56-2 or CBS. They're just juicing up their transmission a little.*



I was talking about two different issues. I certainly did not assume any connection.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *As a DirecTV customer, I'll be in pretty good shape between my OTA reception of WABC-DT and NBC, CBS and FOX available by satellite. Now, if only I could get PBS Channel 13 I'd be able to just sit back and enjoy. (Don't really have much use for UPN or the WB.)*



Im in the same boat as you...a DTV customer that is looking foward to them offering NBCDT which I currently can not pull in. WB has the MEt home games in HD...I would like to see that some day when the combiner ever comes around. PBS is the only other station that I am currently not getting. UPN in the NY area...do they even have any HD? I saw on my program guide that Star Trek was in HD on UPN but it looked nothing like HD to me.


----------



## slocko

You have to pull in the UPN from Philly to get the HD-version, at least until the combiner is done.


I absolutely am not going to miss Enterprise in HD next season, so if the combiner is not done, I am going to spend whatever it takes to get me an antenna that can pull in the Philly station.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *UPN in the NY area...do they even have any HD? I saw on my program guide that Star Trek was in HD on UPN but it looked nothing like HD to me.*



For some reason UPN uses channel 5-2, which I think is an HD channel.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *For some reason UPN uses channel 5-2, which I think is an HD channel.*




UPN out of New York on 5-2 is a digital station, but to the best of my knowledge they do not air any HD broadcasting.


----------



## Calabs

If you're able to pull in UPN from Philly, there is a marked difference in PQ compared to 5-2 out of NYC. The New York station stretches their picture, and it looks like lousy cable reception. The UPN out of Philly has the usual black bars on the sides, and the PQ is really nice. This is despite the fact that UPN really doesn't offer (that much) HD stuff right now.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *As a DirecTV customer, I'll be in pretty good shape between my OTA reception of WABC-DT and NBC, CBS and FOX available by satellite. Now, if only I could get PBS Channel 13 I'd be able to just sit back and enjoy. (Don't really have much use for UPN or the WB.)*



Well, as I posted previously, I can receive CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, UPN and the WB plus, whoopteedoo, WFUT (68)







all OTA, so I don't care much what DirecTV does with those channels, but, like you, what I cannot receive and wish I could is WNET (13). If I could pick that up OTA or through DirecTV, then I'd be set.


----------



## bgut1

I, like everyone else, can not get 13. Its ridiculous that we cant get PBS-HD in the largest DMA. What really drives me nuts is WLIW 22 pulling the plug on HD back in April. I've tried calling them to find out why this was done (I assume cost cutting) and what we can do to bring it back. Obviously, none of my calls were returned. Anyone have any additional information/insight about WLIW?


----------



## netman

WLIW never planned to carry HD programming on their digital transmitter. As per their GM on their own web site the plan was always to carry multiple SD programs. Talk about the best way to waste electricity! The GMs comments may still be on the web site somewhere but I read them there well before they even got the transmitter up and running; quite some time back.


N


----------



## Ken Ross

So the question is why did they do this at the beginning? A cruel tease?


----------



## viamike

Is it true that WLIW and WNET are now the same entity (i.e. they merged a while back...)?


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *So the question is why did they do this at the beginning? A cruel tease?*



I was (and still am) hoping they would decide to carry the HD content but ...


3 channels of teletubbies hardly bears imagining.


----------



## Alexvd

I moved from Hoboken, NJ where I was directly opposite the ESB and could get 2-1,4-1,5-1,5-2 7-1,11-1, 13-1, 13-2 13-3 PAX and Telemundo.


I was using a RS double bow tie taped to the wall outside of my apt along with a Terk TV55 ( I know POS but I just needed to grab WPIX).

I also had the Radio Shack 15-1171. It does work to boost the system a little bit.


Everything was awesome I was happy in HDTV land.


However..............


I recently moved to Mountainside, NJ about 20 miles to the ESB.


Temporarily I put my RS double bowtie inside the house with the AMP.


I can get 2-1,5-1,5-2, (was getting 7-1) and thats about it.


I did put it up on the lower roof and was able to pull in 8-1 (channel 13) but that was just temporary.


My question is this. Obviously I am going to put my antenna outside again more than likely on a mast because I have so many trees. The real concern I have is getting channel 4. Technically 4-1 (according to antenna web) is the same distance give or take a .4 mile from 5-1, 2-1.


Would getting a Channel Master Titan Amp make a difference right now?. I would probably need it any way for pulling in 11-1 on vhf.


----------



## Alexvd

Just a question does 13-1 still have Smart Travels with Rudy Maxa in HD.


I love that show and miss it. I think that was WNET but I havent been able to get that since April. It was true HD.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Alexvd_
> *Just a question does 13-1 still have Smart Travels with Rudy Maxa in HD.
> *



Yes. Usually Monday to Saturday at 7:30 PM


----------



## bgut1




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *WLIW never planned to carry HD programming on their digital transmitter. As per their GM on their own web site the plan was always to carry multiple SD programs.*



Taken from WLIW's web page:

WLIW serves as presenting station for PBS KIDS' first full high definition series, JAKERS! THE ADVENTURES OF PIGGLEY WINKS, featuring Mel Brooks, Brendan Gleeson and Fionnula Flanagan among the voice talents. The series received a Parents' Choice Award and a Daytime Emmy in its first season (2004).

As television enters the digital age, multi-casting and high-definition broadcasting will expand WLIW21's programming potential in ways we can only begin to imagine.

How can they get away with making these statements!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bgut1




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by viamike_
> *Is it true that WLIW and WNET are now the same entity (i.e. they merged a while back...)?*



Merged as of July 31, 2001. New York's ex-rival stations merge under single licensee


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bgut1_
> *Taken from WLIW's web page:...
> 
> As television enters the digital age, multi-casting and high-definition broadcasting will expand WLIW21's..
> 
> How can they get away with making these statements!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Be positve. Maybe this means their plans have changed. Kind of hard to figure why the stopped airing these shows, though.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bgut1_
> *Merged as of July 31, 2001. New York's ex-rival stations merge under single licensee *




Less competition, that should make for better programming.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Alexvd_
> *Just a question does 13-1 still have Smart Travels with Rudy Maxa in HD.
> 
> 
> I love that show and miss it. I think that was WNET but I havent been able to get that since April. It was true HD.*



I believe _Smart Travels_ also airs on HDNet.


----------



## festivalman

Hey guys, can you confirm a couple of things for me? After much dilly dallying, I finally picked up one of these Terk HDTVi antennas. I'm in New Hyde Park NY, which is about 15 miles from the ESB according to antennaweb.org. I'm able to receive cbs, and fox/upn with no problems, 80+ signal. My main hope was to get NBC with this new antenna though. So I plugged it in and I can't get any signal at all above 0 or 5 from NBC or ABC right now. The question is, are NBC and ABC just down right now? I'm I really to lose all hope of getting NBC and settle for getting zero signal even with this new fangled Terk? Thanks for the help.


----------



## 65T500

Hello to all,


I am looking to get OTA HDTV hooked up to my Hitachi 65T500. I live in Babylon which is about 33 miles East of the signal. I guess I'm looking to get CBS, FOX and ABC. I want to put an antenna on a mast on my roof. Is anyone using a Channel Master 4228? Or does anyone have any other suggestions for an antenna?


Thanks,


----------



## cpto

With the olympics rapidly approaching there's still no hard info on WNBC's broadcast power. Unless you're in the immediate area of their transmitter you can't receive it (and sometimes even if you _are_ in their immediate area, you can't).


For olympic fans like myself (I will capitalize "olympics" when I see it in HD) there are only two alternatives that I see.


1) Subscribe to cable (or upgrade to a digital signal)


2) Go with DTV (or upgrade to the HDTV package)


Neither one is a free option. I really don't understand why advertisers will spend over a billion dollars on ads and not insist that they have the greatest impact (and that includes HD ads). Especially since the NYC SMSA is the largest in the country and has the highest average income.


Please - if anyone in this thread knows anything about the NBC folly - please let us know what's happening and whether we'll have to use alternative 1 or 2 to see the olympics in HD. It's coming soon!


C


----------



## deelmakur

The NYC stations will continue to point to the way in which they lost their site. No regulatory agency will challenge that. Meantime, the FCC did announce it plans to take punitive action against HDTV stations which operate with low power, in an attempt to satisfy government requirements, while not spending any money.


----------



## vgoklani

Hi,


I just ordered an elgato EYETV500 OTA HDTV receiver for my powerbook. I live in NYC, and I was wondering if someone could recommend a good indoor HDTV antenna. I browsed through Amazon and found one by Terk and another by Gemini (ZHDTV1). Any recommendations?


I live in midtown, on a medium level floor, sorrounded by many other buildings. What type of reception can I expect?


-V-


----------



## trumpace

In order for you to get an intelligent answer you'll have to be more specific about your location. especially relative to the transmitter locations. Are you North, South, East or West of the ESB?


I'm in Manhattan also, just SW of the ESB. I pull in CBS,Fox,ABC,UPN and PBS, but not NBC, with a

Silver Sensor indoors.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vgoklani_
> 
> I live in midtown, on a medium level floor, sorrounded by many other buildings. What type of reception can I expect?



Without a line of sight to midtown and the transmitters the only option is picking up reflections, sometimes pointing an antenna almost opposite a station's antenna. While only about 10 blocks from most transmitters I can only pick up WCBS-DT reliably as a reflection with a book-size Silver Sensor antenna. SSs are highly directional, rejecting multipath reflections that confuse H/DTV tuning. Some suggest using the Radio Shack bow-tie-type antenna that appears might 'integrate' lots of reflections rather than rejecting them. Haven't tried it. Coming this fall are new LG and other tuners (see threads) using a 5th-generation chip tailored to reject multipath signals that appears to aid urban H/DTV tuning greatly. But that's also when the new combiner antenna might go online that should enhance reception. Before 9/11 I was able to tune NBC and ABC HD in midtown from the distant WTC site using my SS. -- John


----------



## GRN

I have a question about the HD feed from ABC. I live in Nassau County, NY (Long Island) and up until Monday was receieving the ABC HD feed at 70% strength (I have a DISH 811 receiver and and old-school antenna that's been on the roof since before I bought the house). On Monday I suddenly lost the signal annd have not been able to lock onto it since. Does anyone have any idea why this happened? I had an installer come over and check to see if re-aligning the antenna might solve the problem. It picked up some more channels, and the signal strength went up on all my channels, but still ABC does not come in. The installer told me that this is a common problem with ABC and that he knows about a bunch of people, both in my area and outside, who had the same problem, where ABC suddenly dropped and they have not been able to get it. Does anyone know anything about this? And is this a common problem with ABC? Before, the receiver was locking onto 7-1 and 7-2; now, it detects 45-1, but can't lock onto it. I'm not far from the broadcast tower (approximately 17 miles). Any advice anyone has on this would be really helpful.


----------



## CJArciola III

GRN...in regards to WABC-DT reception question...read post 2425 (8/3/04) and others that follow.


----------



## GRN

I just had a chance to read the previous posts............ thanks!!!!! Now if only NBC would do the same!


----------



## erubenst

Hi, I live in Hoboken, on the river, about parallel to the ESB, and I just hooked up a Silver Sensor, and the only real HD reception I get is Channel 13.1 HD... and when its good, its really good, but even that maxes out at 70% signal strength.


I do pick up WNBC-DT (4.1) sporadically, at 40-50 %, but for some reason it only comes in at 4:3.... does that make sense? why would a digital signal be broadcast in 4:3?


----------



## HDntheCity

hello all,


glad to be part of the forum! i'm going to try & answer some previous ?'s raised in this thread before getting to mine.

to erubenst: is the 4:3 picture on WNBC-DT pillar-boxed? if so you have a DIGITAL signal but only a standard-def program. IF NBC is airing any HD content tonite you should see it then. remember that the big networks do not air HD 24/7 & usually do not stretch SD programs.

alexvd, "Smart Travels" is indeed aired on HDnet tho i noticed its not on next wks prog. guide. i THINK HDnet is offered by RCN as well as D*.

finally vgoklani, i have the Gemini zhdtv-1 OTA antenna. i live on 9th Ave. behind the Port Authority & i can get CBS, FOX, & ABC in the mid 70s to low 90s subject to intermitent dropouts. i tried 3 antennas & this works best for me. and i got it on Amazon.

now my question. does any D* sub in Man. get an OTA antenna(Winegard gs1000 or 2000A) from them? if so can you get WNET-DT? i've heard of this in other threads & wonder if its worth the effort(& the $50!). this thread is very informative & you guys are A-1!


jim


----------



## erubenst

Thanks HDnthecity... yeah it was pillar boxed...


By the way Smart Travels was on 13.1 tonight, and it was beautiful (he was in tuscany...)


----------



## HDntheCity

you're very welcome e---. enjoy 13-1 i notice it has a good deal of HD programming. after re-reading my post i think i need to clarify. do any Manhattan D* subs have an OTA antenna they got from D*? i understand this is possible & wondered if it works for getting WNET-DT. i notice people in parts of New Jersey opposite Man. seem to get this channel easier. anyone know where the tower is? thanx


jim


----------



## Manatus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDntheCity_
> *anyone know where the tower is? thanx
> 
> *



There is no tower. WNET's digital signal is broadcast from an antenna on the roof of its low-rise headquarters between the General Post Office and the LIRR train pit. It's low-power and aimed at Newark.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDntheCity_
> 
> i THINK HDnet is offered by RCN as well as D*.
> 
> .. does any D* sub in Man. get an OTA antenna(Winegard gs1000 or 2000A) from them? if so can you get WNET-DT? i've heard of this in other threads & wonder if its worth the effort(& the $50!). this thread is very informative & you guys are A-1!



Yes, I get HDNet and HDNet Movies via RCN, which I added to my Time Warner subscription mainly for RCN's special Hd tier (including ESPN-HD).


Your location sounds very close to WNET-HD's antenna, which I believe is about 38th St[Edit: make that 33rd St.] near the Hudson. But it's very low power and beamed toward Newark so those East rarely pick it up. Broadcast signals might pass above some locations, too, as I suspect for my location ~10 blocks from most station sites where only WCBS-DT from the Empire State Building is tunable (with an early-generation RPTV built-in HD tuner).


A specific antenna and tuner, IMO, might pick up WNET-HD when others don't. But I'd put my bets on the upcoming (this fall) LG tuner models with the 5th-generation chip that appears to really aid multipath rejection and weak-signal tuning. Not sure, but some reports say the cable-TV-like OTA service, USDTV, (available in a few cities) uses a 5th-generation-chip tuner that costs


----------



## trumpace

WNET-DT transmits from a mast on top of 450 West 33rd Street. The transmitter puts out 150 watts, or did so a couple of months ago when I was given a tour of their DT faciilities. I'm in Chelsea and

pick them up just fine, but have never been able to get NBC, If I had to choose, I'd pick PBS.


----------



## HDntheCity

thanx much for all the replies!


trumpace i think you nailed the location. antennaweb puts WNET-DT at 236 degrees less than 1/2 a mile from me. talk about so near yet so far! at only 150wts no wonder i cant get it!

13-1 interests me because i believe it could be a retransmission of the dedicated PBS-HD channel announced a few months ago. it had HD programming listed on Sat. morning!!!(more frustration-my Sammy STB's program guide has the info even tho i can't get the channel!).

i'm a D* sub so FOX & NBC will soon be available over sat. its WNET & WPIX that are the elusive prizes. the WB is going to have about 60% of their prime time prog. in HD this fall! i guess i'll take a chance on the D* OTA antenna. my building is 5 stories tall-might give me a shot. thanx again for your help.


jim


----------



## vinnyv07

Combiner would really clear all this up wouldnt it. Wouldnt even have the need for Local HD via Directv if we had a combiner. But I guess thats stating the obvious.


----------



## HDntheCity

you're obviously 100% right vinny!!! maybe after New York gets the Olympics & the Jets get their stadium it'll be our turn.


jim


----------



## vinnyv07

I get so depressed about the delays and the lack of info when it comes to the combiner. Its just tv....but even so I do feel that we as supporters of HDTV deserve to have a signal that we could sucessfully pull in to watch without breakups. NYC with out PBS in HD....how does it happen? How do I get PAX without a problem ...or a spanish station that is in the 60's on my receiver...without a problem and I cant pick up NBC? I try to put it all out of my head but it just creeps back in. I check this forum every day in hopes of someone coming up and posting something positive about the combiner , but it doesnt happen. Thanks to Directv I'll be watching some of the olympics on NBCDT.


----------



## Infominister

I heard today that agreement has just been reached with that Latin radio station that was delaying installation of the combiner. They're now starting to get the room ready for the combiner, which is completed and has been waiting in storage. So, the obvious question now is, how long will it take to get the room set up? The answer, I'm told, is about two months from now. I know...we'll believe it when we see it, but that is good news about the radio station agreeing to clear out.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I heard today that agreement has just been reached with that Latin radio station that was delaying installation of the combiner. They're now starting to get the room ready for the combiner, which is completed and has been waiting in storage. So, the obvious question now is, how long will it take to get the room set up? The answer, I'm told, is about two months from now. I know...we'll believe it when we see it, but that is good news about the radio station agreeing to clear out.*




Maybe, just maybe a little good news for a change on the combiner. I certainly have my fingers crossed.










Scott


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I heard today that agreement has just been reached with that Latin radio station that was delaying installation of the combiner. They're now starting to get the room ready for the combiner, which is completed and has been waiting in storage. So, the obvious question now is, how long will it take to get the room set up? The answer, I'm told, is about two months from now. I know...we'll believe it when we see it, but that is good news about the radio station agreeing to clear out.*



Good news...any update on the WABC antenna? I am still getting squat!


----------



## clanger

Anybody know when ABC will be back on the air? Looks like were going to miss football tonight!


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by clanger_
> *Anybody know when ABC will be back on the air? Looks like were going to miss football tonight!*



I believe st james is just across the sound right? You may be able to get WTNH out of New Haven, CT. The signal is pretty strong. It's channel 8.1 (rf# 10).


----------



## Infominister

As for WABC-DT, I've been trying w/o success today to reach either of my two contacts at WABC engineering. Remember, this was an upgrade to the transmitter that was expected to be completed by the end of this week. So, if they're still at low power as of now, it doesn't look too promising for tonight's game.


----------



## trekkerj

I can get it no problem.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I can get it no problem.*



Really? Have they just resumed full power, as it was a couple/few weeks ago, or do you just have incredibly good reception of WABC-DT?


----------



## trekkerj

Seems a little weaker, but I'm sure with a preamp I'll have no trouble. I get NBC here too, with my double bowtie, so I guess I get good reception here.


----------



## netman

I see them here in Deer Park but major breakup. MDP100 calls signal 20%. I thought they went away for a few minutes and got hopes they were switching something but, no, they're still PW.


----------



## trekkerj

Well, it comes it very strongly here, but the game is in SD. HD across the country, but WABC isn't giving us the HD feed. Dammit. Anyone know who to call?


----------



## cmeinck

I'm getting the weak signal I've come to expect over the last week or so. When I see it, it seems to be in SD. I did see a new ABC HD logo... in SD of course.


----------



## trekkerj

ABC finally flipped the switch!


----------



## erubenst

Im in Hoboken and I get WABC 7-1 at about 40-50 %... but the game comes in tonight in SD (4:3)...


----------



## trekkerj

Check again.


----------



## erubenst

yep... HD now... looks good, but a bit on the dark side... maybe its the lights in that stadium, not alot of tv games from canton...


----------



## PDPnNJ

Argh !!!! My luck. The entire year ABC was 100% solid for me. Tonight when I need it the most it's gone !!!


----------



## trekkerj

Wow, I like living on a 500 foot hill. ABC signal is, to me, the same as usual. Picture quality is very good. Just wish they flipped the switch on time. Guess they're not used to having to do it. Hope they get back in the habit.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *ABC finally flipped the switch!*



Do you mean they are finally back to full strenth or that it's now HD (but still at reduced strength)? I'm not getting any ABC signal. I used to get it at about 80% so I'm assuming it's still not at full strength. If it's at full strength, I guess I have a different problem. Anyone know for sure?


----------



## Infominister

They're still at low power and probably will be until at least the end of the week. That was the plan all along. However, when they do go back to full power, it's supposed to be somewhat higher power.


----------



## PDPnNJ

After 9:00pm, I was able to lock it but with some pixelation and audio drops.


----------



## hdtvforme

is WTNH down ??


I used to be able to get WABC 7-1 out of NY and WTNH 8-1 out of New Haven.

I understand the issue with 7-1 but not getting WTNH has me concerned.


----------



## vgoklani

Hi Everybody,


I just got an elgato eyeTV 500 OTA HDTV receiver for my powerbook. I live in midtown, facing north, and have two antennas - a radio shack "double bow-tie" and a rabbit-ear. So far, I have been able to pull in CBS (HD), and Fox (also HD). UPN came in, but with a really weak signal. CBS was crystal-clear with the double bow-tie, and Fox was pretty clean. What should I do to get ABC and NBC?


----------



## GoldenBoy

I have been picking up WABCDT here without any problem whatsoever and I saw some of the game last night in HD without a hitch. My signal reception is very strong for all of the major networks (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, UPN) and I pick up WFUTDT (68) and PAX as well. But, where art thou WNET?


----------



## John Mason

Similar north-facing mid-town tuning problem here. Seems like most potential fixes require hardware investments. But such add-ons might be unneeded when the new combiner antenna kicks in, supposedly later this year. (A building master UHF antenna might be an intermediate solution.)


This fall receivers with the new 5th-generation tuner chip, tailored for urban multipath rejection, should be available. Several posts outline these units in the hardware forum. -- John


----------



## justjoe

what's going on with ABC-DT?


----------



## vinnyv07

Hey justjoe ...I live in great kills...I lost ABC also. I heard and read a couple of pages back in this forum that ABC is worling on their Ant. I thought they should have been done by last week...but maybe they are a little behind. By the way what ch's are you picking up OTA? Any luck with NBC?


----------



## justjoe

I have'nt really lost it. It seems they are showing HD previews of Monsters Inc, Good Morning America and also a surround test. Nice pq anyway.

As for NBC, the stars must be aligned to pick it up over 30(signal strength). Other than that I get the usual; 2, 5, 7, and a vast array of PBS except 13.

Did you pick up 0-1 thru 5? How about 8-2 & 3?


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by justjoe_
> *
> 
> Did you pick up 0-1 thru 5? How about 8-2 & 3?*



0-1? thru 5? Idont follow what you mean. The ch's I currentl get are CBS 2-1, a sub ch that hasnt been showing anything 2-2....NBC is a no show....Fox on 5-1 UPN on 5-2....ABC when everything is full power at 7-1 and 7-2....nothing on WPIX and nothing on WNET. You didnt mention WB....have you ever had any luck getting a sig for WB? I know that they are at low power and VHF but I was wondering if anyone in SI was getting a sig from them.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *0-1? thru 5? Idont follow what you mean. The ch's I currentl get are CBS 2-1, a sub ch that hasnt been showing anything 2-2....NBC is a no show....Fox on 5-1 UPN on 5-2....ABC when everything is full power at 7-1 and 7-2....nothing on WPIX and nothing on WNET. You didnt mention WB....have you ever had any luck getting a sig for WB? I know that they are at low power and VHF but I was wondering if anyone in SI was getting a sig from them.*



I think JustJoe *may* have a Hughes E86 STB....as I do...and 0-1 through 0-4 for me was the NJ PBS station out of New Brunswick in NJ....but the channels seem to have "migrated"/mirrored to 58-1:4. No HD channel/loop for Digital 8 yet though.....but 50 and 43 don't seem to have one yet either....or more to the point Digital 43 DID have one up until a few months ago.


My parents are in Huguenot and the last time I checked they were able to pick up 4-1/2-1/7-1 and 5-1 from NYC in addition to 50-1:4 from NJ. No sniff of PIX or WNET.....but they don't have a preamp on the antenna I gave them. They are using (IIRC) a Samsung t-151 OTA STB.


YMMV.....and apparently it does!


----------



## erubenst

Hi,


Anyone else experiencing no audio for PBS HD - 13.1 in new york area? i get audio on the sd 13.2 and 13.3 but not on 13.1


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *
> 
> My parents are in Huguenot and the last time I checked they were able to pick up 4-1/2-1/7-1 and 5-1 from NYC in addition to 50-1:4 from NJ. No sniff of PIX or WNET.....but they don't have a preamp on the antenna I gave them. They are using (IIRC) a Samsung t-151 OTA STB.
> 
> 
> YMMV.....and apparently it does!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Thanks jaypb....I get all of the ch's that your parents do except for NBC. I sub to Directv and look foward to getting a good HD sig from NBC. Actually I lost WABC when they started working on their ANT ...it hasnt come back yet.


----------



## justjoe

Vinny,

I forgot about WB simply because I don't get that either. As far as the PBS channels, I did a rescan and on my dst-3000 and found that 0-1 thru 5 was gone and so was 8-2 and 8-3. However Jaypb is right. They are mirrored WNJN-DT.


Vin, I noticed before I left for work ABC was back on. Is it off again?


----------



## vinnyv07

Im at work also....I'll check when I get home. But I wasnt getting a sig from ABC in the afternoon. Can anyone confirm if ABC is back up to full power?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by justjoe_
> *Vinny,
> 
> I forgot about WB simply because I don't get that either. As far as the PBS channels, I did a rescan and on my dst-3000 and found that 0-1 thru 5 was gone and so was 8-2 and 8-3. However Jaypb is right. They are mirrored WNJN-DT.
> 
> 
> Vin, I noticed before I left for work ABC was back on. Is it off again?*



The DST is the Toshiba Step Sister to the E86....so it makes sense that the mapping you saw matched the mapping I was seeing for awhile. Hopefully you have a fan on that bad boy.....as it *may* help you pull in a higher quality signal if you do.


The Monsters Inc and GMA and Surround Test you mentioned in one of your earlier posts is the demo loop that 7-1 plays occasionally.


----------



## danq989

vinnyv07,


From my place (Irvington NY, 20.2 NNE ESB), my WABC 7-1 signal strength is up a few dB higher than the past week, but lower by about 8dB than previous to that.


Right now, it's just under my reception threshold (argh).


---Dan


----------



## Scott G

Does anyone know when this WABC-DT power problem will be corrected ?


----------



## andrewjnyc

After years of looking forward to it, I'm finally diving into the world of HDTV--I've purchased a Sony 34XBR960 that will arrive in about a week's time. I don't know the first thing, I must admit, about OTA HDTV. I live in lower Manhattan (in the East Village, between Avenues A and B), so I assume I'll have no difficulty getting an excellent signal...right? Will I need to purchase an antenna or do I live in an area where I'll be able to make do with the hardware built into the set? Though I'm a newbie to this, I'm pretty tech-y by nature so I don't think I'll have any difficulty getting things rolling, but any and all advice on how to dive into the world of OTA HDTV viewing in NYC would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> Does anyone know when this WABC-DT power problem will be corrected ?



Scott, I'm getting ABC-DT here in Jersey with no power problem at all.


Tony


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by danq989_
> *vinnyv07,
> 
> 
> From my place (Irvington NY, 20.2 NNE ESB), my WABC 7-1 signal strength is up a few dB higher than the past week, but lower by about 8dB than previous to that.
> 
> 
> Right now, it's just under my reception threshold (argh).
> 
> 
> ---Dan*



OK thanks...I was wondering if they had everything going again....I just checked and no ABC yet. My sig for ABC was about 15 db under cbs....at 45-50.....with the current downgrade in power I ended up losing ABC.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andrewjnyc_
> *I live in lower Manhattan (in the East Village, between Avenues A and B), so I assume I'll have no difficulty getting an excellent signal...right? Will I need to purchase an antenna or do I live in an area where I'll be able to make do with the hardware built into the set?*



Andrew, your TV has both an OTA (ATSC) tuner and digital cable (QAM) tuner. For OTA reception you'll just need a UHF antenna - all the majors in NYC are in the UHF band. If you have access to the roof you can use an outdoor UHF antenna, otherwise the Silver Sensor seems to be a popular indoor antenna. If you have cable already, you can plug it in to the digital antenna input and do a scan for digital cable channels. The major networks should be unencrypted QAM, so you may pick them up.


You're close enough to get everything with a plain jane UHF antenna, but the problem will be other buildings blocking the signal or causing multipath problems. CBS and FOX are on the ESB, ABC is from the top of 4 Times Square, and NBC is from the GE building (Rockefeller).


Good luck.


----------



## GRN

I'm in Nassau, Long Isand and the ABC-DT signal is stlil not at full strength (I was getting it at 70-73% before).


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s236_
> *Scott, I'm getting ABC-DT here in Jersey with no power problem at all.
> 
> 
> Tony*




I am still getting it too, but the signal is very weak and I have seen a little in and out a few times. I also am concerned for everyone who cannot get it anymore.


----------



## GRN

Didn't the original postings say that ABC would be done with the upgrade at the end of THIS week? If so, then I don't think there's a problem if the reception is still not clear. If another week or two goes by and there's no reception, THEN I think there's a problem. Maybe someone can check with one of their contacts/engineers at ABC?


----------



## justjoe

I'm getting a signal of 65. This afternoon was 72. But no drop-outs.


Off the topic: Will the Jets game be in hd? My guide says no but I'm hoping its wrong!


----------



## RMSko

I'm now a bit concerned because my ABC signal has definitely improved from what it was yesterday, but is not as good as it was before the maintenance. Yesterday my readings were around 30 and today they are just hitting 60. Prior to the maintenance ABC was in teh 80's consistently. I'm just worried that they are now finished and we are left with a significantly weeker signal. Anyone else having similar results?


----------



## berniec

sux i'm in jersey and can get just about ever friggen channel i want EXCEPT NBC which i wanted to record the opening ceremonies in HD on my PC...i can watch them in cable cause i get nbc-hd via cablevision but i have no way of recording anything that way


----------



## nadroj81

I live in Jersey city South west of the ESP. What channel do i have to tune into. I get cbs, fox, upn and some others. I went to add on my tvs menu, but it didn't come up with NBC. how should i try and access it, whats the station number ect?


----------



## berniec

channel 28 but its low power so dont hold ur breath, pretty sure its coming off 30 rockefeller plaza still


----------



## Gary Quiring

With this crummy weather NBC is coming in great in Matawan NJ tonight (8/13). I rarely get a signal lock with NBC. Only when the ceiling is low.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *I'm now a bit concerned because my ABC signal has definitely improved from what it was yesterday, but is not as good as it was before the maintenance. Yesterday my readings were around 30 and today they are just hitting 60. Prior to the maintenance ABC was in teh 80's consistently. I'm just worried that they are now finished and we are left with a significantly weeker signal. Anyone else having similar results?*



Rich:


I've been getting 45-01 at 49-55% since last week. My signal has not improved at all. I still cannot lock into it, and re-scanning the channels doesn't produce 7-1 and 7-2 (like it did before), only 45-01.


On another note, can anyone confirm whether WABC-DT is up to full strength yet? And by that, I mean confirm _through_ WABC whether the upgrade has been completed, the signal is up to full strength, etc.? One or two people able to get (weak) signals I don't think is indicative of the population as a whole.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *With this crummy weather NBC is coming in great in Matawan NJ tonight (8/13). I rarely get a signal lock with NBC. Only when the ceiling is low.*



I noticed this on the 2nd of my two CM4228 antennas. WNBC-DT ALWAYS had at least 3-4 hiccups per 1/2 hour sitcom........last night during the HD presentation and into this AM my signal didn't drop out ONCE while watching. Great timing. WABC-DT was fine for me when I checked during the night as well.


----------



## GRN

Has anyone _not_ in New Jersey (translation: New York) gotten back WABC-DT at full strength? And can anyone confirm that WABC is transmitting at full strength? Checked again today twice and WABC-DT is not coming in at all at my location (17 miles give or take from broadcast tower).......


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Has anyone not in New Jersey (translation: New York) gotten back WABC-DT at full strength? And can anyone confirm that WABC is transmitting at full strength? Checked again today twice and WABC-DT is not coming in at all at my location (17 miles give or take from broadcast tower).......*



I am also about 17 air miles from Manhattan in Nassau County. My Dish Network 921 has a scale of 0 to 125. WABC-DT used to measure about 120. Now it reads 85 and is acting normally. If it wasn't for this thread, I would not have known there were any issues.


----------



## personalt

Should I be able to pick up NBC in HD from hoboken? I am according to antennaweb.org something like 3 miles from the NBC antenna.


I swear I was able to get it a few weeks ago but no matter what I do I cant get it now. I live about 8 streets back from the river but I have the antenna mounted on top of a 3 story building with a 20 foot pole on top. I have the largest radio shack antenna unit, I think it is a 10 foot antenna. I am not exactly sure the size but I know I had a fun time raising the 20 foot pole with the antenna on the top.


The highest I can get in signal strenth is aound 10% so I think they are at least broadcasting.


My two quesitons I guess are.. Where is NBC broadcasting from? I assume not ESB as when I am there I get a good CBS signal but not NBC. Are they broadcasting with enough juice to reach hoboken?


If they have enough juice to reach hoboken can any recommand an antenna and/or preamp that will allow me to pull this in? Right now I have a good size radio shack antenna. I tried there preamp but it appeared to make things worse, most likely will return it today.


----------



## nadroj81

So i can't get NBC, do i need a better antenna or something. Or what is the deal? I am in jersey city, on the water, High floor, and I have direct line of sight to financial-midtown-and GW.


----------



## jcord51

8 stinking miles from the ESB and still no 7-1. I can not get a lock because of the flux in the signal, using my Dish 921.


----------



## nadroj81

tried moving my antanna a little more. Got NBC with no hiccups. But now ABC doesn't come in. so i guess i will just have to adjust it depending on the station.


----------



## Manatus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by personalt_
> *
> 
> My two quesitons I guess are.. Where is NBC broadcasting from? I assume not ESB as when I am there I get a good CBS signal but not NBC. Are they broadcasting with enough juice to reach hoboken?
> *



WNBC broadcasts a low-power signal from the top of the GE (ex-RCA) Building (6th Ave. @ 49th St.). I've never had a problem viewing it using an indoor antenna in my apartment directly across the river from Hoboken.


----------



## personalt

Can anyone recommend a good antenna? I see from this thread that a guy in Jersey city picked up NBC HDTV so I think I should be able to also.


Right now I have a large 10 foot radio shack antenna. Is that a good antenna? I think it cost me around $80 as it is one of the biggest if not the biggest one they stock.


As I posted earlier I swear I was getting NBC in HD a while back but I disconnected the roof antenna about 3 weeks back to move some cables and such.


Can anyone recommend a good outdoor antenna and/or a preamp that would allow me to get nbc from a 3 story building in hoboken. I have a direct line of sight to the top of Empire state buidling but I think there might be some buildings the way of the GE/RCA building as I can only see the top of the esb..


----------



## dturturro

personalt,


go to channelmaster.com and look at there crossfire series antennae. then look into a titan 2 model 7777 preamp. if you still have problems you may want to invest in a rotor.


----------



## timbo111

personalt,


I'm also in Hoboken, back on Madison St. I have no problem getting NBC HDTV with a cheap Zenith Silver Sensor sitting on top of my Mits. ABC, however, I can't get at all. I used to be able to bring in ABC, however it was never very stable. Hopefully whatever maintenance they are doing will solve that in time for Monday Night Football.


----------



## personalt

I can't belive that someone a block from me can pick up NBC with that little indoor antenna and I cant pick it up with 10 foot antenna on a 20 foot mast from a 3rd story roof.


To the guy on Madison, if you are between 2nd and 3rd and I bet you can see my stupid big antenna and get a good laugh..


I wonder if I got some crappy cables then. Before going and getting a new antenna mabye I will just get some new cables. Do I need special cables for the antenna? I think I just used standard issues radio shack coax. I belive I used the same cables for my dish and they down 3 stories and then back up 2 and the signal is fine. This antenna cable just goes down the 20 foot pole and down 1 story and in. I am at a loss at this point.. Really weird..


----------



## netman

OK, so speaking of NBC, they are coming in pretty respectable here (Deer Park) with the "Olympics" coverage. It seems like they did something (perhaps a modest power increase?). No drop-outs which has been the norm since the leaves came out and a few % points higher on the MyHD cards.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I am also about 17 air miles from Manhattan in Nassau County. My Dish Network 921 has a scale of 0 to 125. WABC-DT used to measure about 120. Now it reads 85 and is acting normally. If it wasn't for this thread, I would not have known there were any issues.*



From 120 to 85? A 35% drop in signal strength is not normal. I was picking it up at 70-73% before last week and now it barely breaks 49%. Still can't lock onto it.


BTW where did you pick up the DISH 921? I was looking all over for it a few months back and must have checked about 10 different places. No one had it. I had to settle for the DISH 811. That's pretty wild that the 921 goes from 0-125. The 811 goes from 0-100, and I don't think I've ever had something lock on stronger than 80%. Can you pick up NBC-DT?


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by personalt_
> *I can't belive that someone a block from me can pick up NBC with that little indoor antenna and I cant pick it up with 10 foot antenna on a 20 foot mast from a 3rd story roof.*



Hell, I can't believe that people in New Jersey can pick up the signal, but people in _New York_ are SOL.


----------



## vinnyv07

Anyone in the NY area picking up WB ch 11? If so...what Ant are you using? I know that WB is on the VHF side of things.....I also know they are at low power. But since I have a UHF ant on my roof I was wondering if I could buy a VHF indoor Ant to get the WB. Anyone having any luck?


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Anyone in the NY area picking up WB ch 11? If so...what Ant are you using? I know that WB is on the VHF side of things.....I also know they are at low power. But since I have a UHF ant on my roof I was wondering if I could buy a VHF indoor Ant to get the WB. Anyone having any luck?*



I get the WB signal (11-01, 11-02 SAP and 12-01) at 69-73%. I just have one antenna on the roof, and I also get WCBS, WNYW (FOX), WWOR (UPN), WNJN, and 53-01, a Spanish channel out of Jersey, I think. I was also getting WABC before the recent upgrade. All at 69% or better. The antenna was up on my roof prior to me buying the house, and I just ran the coax into the back of my DISH 811 receiver when I upgraded to high-def. If WB is coming in on VHF, then I _assume_ that my antenna picks up both UHF and VHF. Wish I knew more. Hope that helps


----------



## timbo111




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by personalt_
> *I can't belive that someone a block from me can pick up NBC with that little indoor antenna and I cant pick it up with 10 foot antenna on a 20 foot mast from a 3rd story roof.
> 
> 
> To the guy on Madison, if you are between 2nd and 3rd and I bet you can see my stupid big antenna and get a good laugh..
> 
> 
> I wonder if I got some crappy cables then. Before going and getting a new antenna mabye I will just get some new cables. Do I need special cables for the antenna? I think I just used standard issues radio shack coax. I belive I used the same cables for my dish and they down 3 stories and then back up 2 and the signal is fine. This antenna cable just goes down the 20 foot pole and down 1 story and in. I am at a loss at this point.. Really weird..*



Yeah, I am between 2nd and 3rd on Madison. That sucks about you NBC. I will say that I really have to move the Silver Sensor around alot until I find a sweet spot. I have it plugged into my Hughes E86 DirecTV receiver and get a steady 93 signal. Great picture, the Olympics opening ceremony looks better than on DirecTV ch. 84.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by personalt_
> *I wonder if I got some crappy cables then. Before going and getting a new antenna mabye I will just get some new cables. Do I need special cables for the antenna? I think I just used standard issues radio shack coax. I belive I used the same cables for my dish and they down 3 stories and then back up 2 and the signal is fine. This antenna cable just goes down the 20 foot pole and down 1 story and in. I am at a loss at this point.. Really weird..*



The coax cables should be RG-6 cables. Usually it says what kind of cable it is on the jacket. If you use RG-59 you may not be able to get a pic or the pic will have bad quality and break up frequently. All installers today use RG-6 coax cable.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *
> 
> BTW where did you pick up the DISH 921? I was looking all over for it a few months back and must have checked about 10 different places. No one had it
> 
> 
> Can you pick up NBC-DT?*



I got my 921 from http://www.dishstore.net/ which has them in stock for $949. They are apparently readily available now at a lot of places.


I do get good reception of WNBC-DT and also usually have no problem with WPIX-DT.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> 
> [B
> 
> I do get good reception of WNBC-DT and also usually have no problem with WPIX-DT. [/b]



What type of Ant do you have? Is it an indoor Ant?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *What type of Ant do you have? Is it an indoor Ant?*



For UHF I use a Televes DAT-75. It is an outdoor antenna but I have it in the attic.


For WPIX-DT (VHF-12) I have a home made antenna.

It is a folded dipole made of 300 ohm twin lead attached to a wooden yardstick. I have it hanging just outside a 2nd floor window.


Both antennas feed a Channel Master 7777 preamp.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *and 53-01, a Spanish channel out of Jersey, I think.*



That's the digital of WFUT-68, licensed to Newark but coming from the same tower as WABC-DT (the analog is on the ESB though).


- Trip


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *That's the digital of WFUT-68, licensed to Newark but coming from the same tower as WABC-DT (the analog is on the ESB though).
> 
> 
> - Trip*



Thanks........... weird thing about the channel; it comes in at 80% strength, but as far as I know I've never seen any high-def programming on it. Are they actually showing anything in high-def?


----------



## tstatguy112

They are doing a terrible job. For 3 days we watch all the nations march into the Olympic Stadium again and again and again and again and again and again and again ect ect ect in HI DEF. Then when we get an event and its a day old already. Why cant they show whats on regular NBC in HI DEF when its on then having to wait a day and having to watch an old Greek coot playing with his beads every 15 minutes again and again and again and that commercial Hey we got the chips and salsa, we get it, only some people have HI DEF. I mean whose their idiot programmer, don't they get it, we want to get the event as early as possible and in HI DEF.

SHOW THE REGULAR NBC COVERAGE IN HI DEF IN THE 8-11PM TIME SLOT, but as with any typical management group in charge they won't do it, cause they are idiots.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tstatguy112_
> *They are doing a terrible job. For 3 days we watch all the nations march into the Olympic Stadium again and again and again and again and again and again and again ect ect ect in HI DEF. Then when we get an event and its a day old already. Why cant they show whats on regular NBC in HI DEF when its on then having to wait a day and having to watch an old Greek coot playing with his beads every 15 minutes again and again and again and that commercial Hey we got the chips and salsa, we get it, only some people have HI DEF. I mean whose their idiot programmer, don't they get it, we want to get the event as early as possible and in HI DEF.
> 
> SHOW THE REGULAR NBC COVERAGE IN HI DEF IN THE 8-11PM TIME SLOT, but as with any typical management group in charge they won't do it, cause they are idiots.*



Actually, though this is a bit off topic, I don't think it's all that bad.


They probably have a transmission problem with the Hi Def signal which requires a lot of bandwidth, hence the delay. I notice also that it's a different program with fewer jingoistic tendencies. They are actually showing outstanding athletic performances even though Americans are not prominent in particular events.


I could write more but it's probably better taken to the Hi Def Programming pages.


Mel


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Thanks........... weird thing about the channel; it comes in at 80% strength, but as far as I know I've never seen any high-def programming on it. Are they actually showing anything in high-def?*



No, Univision (40-1) and TeleFutura (53-1) do not do any HD.


And actually, the reason you're getting it so strong recently is because just a while ago they upped their power from like 3.5 kW to 150 kW. You'd think they'd multicast WXTV-DT's programming on there (which I think is still only at 6.5 kW), but they don't...


- Trip


----------



## dturturro

I've noticed that I am not receiving video on channel 5-2. Audio is present and there is no problem with any other stations. Is anyone else experiencing this or do I have a problem with my STB?


----------



## bjohn




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I've noticed that I am not receiving video on channel 5-2. Audio is present and there is no problem with any other stations. Is anyone else experiencing this or do I have a problem with my STB?*




Same here as of yesterday. Didn't check today.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tstatguy112_
> *They are doing a terrible job. For 3 days we watch all the nations march into the Olympic Stadium again and again and again and again and again and again and again ect ect ect in HI DEF. Then when we get an event and its a day old already. Why cant they show whats on regular NBC in HI DEF when its on then having to wait a day and having to watch an old Greek coot playing with his beads every 15 minutes again and again and again and that commercial Hey we got the chips and salsa, we get it, only some people have HI DEF. I mean whose their idiot programmer, don't they get it, we want to get the event as early as possible and in HI DEF.
> 
> SHOW THE REGULAR NBC COVERAGE IN HI DEF IN THE 8-11PM TIME SLOT, but as with any typical management group in charge they won't do it, cause they are idiots.*



This subject has been covered ad nauseam in the HDTV programming forum.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Actually, though this is a bit off topic, I don't think it's all that bad.
> 
> 
> They probably have a transmission problem with the Hi Def signal which requires a lot of bandwidth, hence the delay. I notice also that it's a different program with fewer jingoistic tendencies. They are actually showing outstanding athletic performances even though Americans are not prominent in particular events.
> 
> 
> I could write more but it's probably better taken to the Hi Def Programming pages.
> 
> 
> Mel*



It's not bandwidth related. It's a totally different production. See the HDTV programming forum for more info since this is a bit off-topic.


----------



## dturturro

OK, I have a tough issue here:


I'm located in Levittown. I have an RCA 3036 (VHF?UHF) driving a CM 7777 preamp (connected to the VHF/UHF port). Aimed at ESB I get most NY locals (although NBC/WB are spotty, where's that @#$% combiner?!) broadcast out of the city. I'd like to pick up WLIG out of Riverhead (opposite direction).


My question: may I hook up a UHF only antenna to the UHF port? I understand this has the potential to ghost. I've been told that if I cut the cable lengths feeding the amp to EXACTLY the same size there will be no ghosting. Does that sound right? If so, will the amp accept both inputs or not?


Oh, see this week's Sports Illustrated about NBC's HD coverage. They're using a local Greek stations HD feeds!


----------



## vinnyv07

Slowly Im losing everything it seems...ABC hasnt come back and now UPN is down. Whats next....at least UPN really doesnt matter. Trying to look at the bright side as my attempt at pulling in WPIX was unsuccessful.


----------



## beavis

Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but I caught most of the Mets game on WPIX-DT yesterday it was back to 1080i (it was SD durning the last homestand) and in 5.1 surround. I don't think they have done 5.1 before. The sound was excellent, almost like being there!


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I've noticed that I am not receiving video on channel 5-2. Audio is present and there is no problem with any other stations. Is anyone else experiencing this or do I have a problem with my STB?*



Same thing here. Audio, but no video.


----------



## dturturro

Is the 5-2 problem occurring to all kinds of STB's? I have the DirecTV HR10-250.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> I've noticed that I am not receiving video on channel 5-2. Audio is present and there is no problem with any other stations. Is anyone else experiencing this or do I have a problem with my STB?




Same here...Its been like this few days. My box is the LG-3100A.


----------



## clanger

Does anybody have any contact info for ABC? I really want to find out what the hell is going on with their signal. It's been over two weeks now and I'm still not getting anything


----------



## shaown

Yea, my UPN has the same black screen, and ABC has been MIA, driving me crazy..

-Shaown


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Is the 5-2 problem occurring to all kinds of STB's? I have the DirecTV HR10-250.*



Looks like it....... I have the DISH 811 and I have the same problem (no video / yes audio).


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by beavis_
> *Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but I caught most of the Mets game on WPIX-DT yesterday it was back to 1080i (it was SD durning the last homestand) and in 5.1 surround. I don't think they have done 5.1 before. The sound was excellent, almost like being there!*



You mean you were able to hear all fifty people in the stands clapping in 5.1??!



(sorry as a Yankee fan I couldn't resist)


----------



## RobInLI

Hello All,


Great info on this forum!


I have DirecTV and want to replace my dish with an elliptical HD dish that I have and also need to have a new OTA antenna installed.


Can anyone here recommend a good (quality and $) installer in the Nassau County area?


Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks!


BTW - LOL @ Paperboy2003: As a Yankee fan as well, I can see the humor in that!


----------



## dturturro

You guys are right, Shea Stadium looks like Yankee Stadium did in the 80's!


----------



## vinnyv07

In my quest to get WPIX from Staten Island....I bought a radio shack indoor antenna (15-1880) for $39.99. I have an UHF only ant outside that gets me everything but NBC and WNET...but with the new season coming up I want to get WPIX. The radio shack ANT got me to a 70-74 sig rating on my VOOM receiver and I needed a 80 to lock. I was playing with it for a while but to no avail....the 1880 has a built in amp for VHF of 17dB. So, Im going to return it to the shack and Im getting another indoor ant from summitsource....its a magnavox super amplified ant...vhf goes to 45dB...which is what I think I need. I'll keep you guys posted on my quest.


----------



## GRN

Hey, since no one has asked this today: Does anyone know what's going on with ABC's signal?


----------



## seldenpat

I got ABC-DT back like normal for about 30 minutes last night around 10:00pm. Anyone know if they were testing, or was it just some meteor scatter or tropo ducting?


----------



## skyhawk223

It was tropo meteor scatter ducting effect caused by the lack of combiner centric convergence low resolution ERP something or other...


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by skyhawk223_
> *It was tropo meteor scatter ducting effect caused by the lack of combiner centric convergence low resolution ERP something or other...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



THAT DAMN COMBINER AGAIN!!!


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> I've noticed that I am not receiving video on channel 5-2. Audio is present and there is no problem with any other stations. Is anyone else experiencing this or do I have a problem with my STB?



Looks like 5-2 now has a picture to match the audio!


Tony


----------



## andrewjnyc

Can anyone point me toward a retail store in Manhattan where I can buy the ZHDTV1 Silver Sensor antenna? My new HDTV arrives on Saturday, but the antenna I ordered from Amazon--which was supposed to ship on Monday and reach me sometime between today and Friday--only shipped today and probably won't arrive until a few days after the TV does. I'd like to buy one locally and return the one I ordered to Amazon under their 30-day no-questions-asked policy. I'd be especially psyched a pointer toward a store that had it for something close to the online price of $29.99, as that + tax would come out to about the same as what I'm paying Amazon (when you throw in their shipping fee). Thanks a million!


----------



## Morg111

Why is UPN 9 (WWOR-DT) having such a hard time getting their DTV station up and running. Everytime I look at antennaweb.org they keep pushing back the broadcast date.


Marc


----------



## bjohn

I have one that I purchased that I never really used. Will sell it for $20, IF you come and pick it up from Floral Park, NY


Or If you're in downtown NYC, Church St area, I can bring it to work with me.


I don't have the orginal box, just the antenna, stand and coax.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andrewjnyc_
> *Can anyone point me toward a retail store in Manhattan where I can buy the ZHDTV1 Silver Sensor antenna? My new HDTV arrives on Saturday, but the antenna I ordered from Amazon--which was supposed to ship on Monday and reach me sometime between today and Friday--only shipped today and probably won't arrive until a few days after the TV does. I'd like to buy one locally and return the one I ordered to Amazon under their 30-day no-questions-asked policy. I'd be especially psyched a pointer toward a store that had it for something close to the online price of $29.99, as that + tax would come out to about the same as what I'm paying Amazon (when you throw in their shipping fee). Thanks a million!*


----------



## trekkerj

WWOR-DT will being transmitting on ch 38 again once the combiner is done.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *Why is UPN 9 (WWOR-DT) having such a hard time getting their DTV station up and running. Everytime I look at antennaweb.org they keep pushing back the broadcast date.
> 
> 
> Marc*


----------



## George Thompson

That dreaded combiner... I know this is of no help or of interest, but the Spanish station has been settled and is moving or has moved. It must sound like a broken record, but maybe another couple of months.... barring anymore unseen road blocks.

GT


----------



## Paperboy2003

I still think that there is nothing really called a combiner. I think that it's a made up word that all the networks that aren't broadcasting at full power use to make people think that they're doing all they can. 'We'll we'd like to give you HD, but we're waiting on the combiner project'. Four years from now, when we'll all be able to get a signal from directv, cable or dish, then and only then will they announce that they're no longer pursuing the 'combiner' project.


I think the pseudonym comes from the fact that if you 'combine' all of the logic and desire of these stations, you'd be able to fill up that made up storage room at the empire state building where this miracle of technology is supposed to be built.


OK I'm done venting now...


Doug


----------



## sting0r

Why another couple of months? I thought the thing was already built and just needs to be plugged in?



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *That dreaded combiner... I know this is of no help or of interest, but the Spanish station has been settled and is moving or has moved. It must sound like a broken record, but maybe another couple of months.... barring anymore unseen road blocks.
> 
> GT*


----------



## Infominister

'Cause now they have to set up the room. Patience, though, this does finally sound like the beginning of the end of this cruel delay.


----------



## Morg111

I'm a Star Trek fan. I just want the damn channel to see next season's Enterprise! You'd think they were inventing the cure for Cancer.


M.


----------



## s236

GT, Good news! I guess my forum friend from WPIX was correct! (posted July 12, post number 2297)


Tony




> Quote:
> "We (WPIX) like our peers are waiting for the combiner project to be completed. That work is picking up speed as the combiner itself is done (a very unique piece of engineering), and installation of it will commence soon. But like everything else we have done at the Empire State Building this project is complicated by having to work around other broadcast tenants and the age of the building itself. Consequently my best guess is we will be back to channel 33 just prior to the holidays. I wish it could be sooner."


----------



## trekkerj

Well, Enterprise isn't scheduled to begin again until October, so maybe it will be ready by then. Hopefully, UPN won't cancel the show before the combiner is ready.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *I'm a Star Trek fan. I just want the damn channel to see next season's Enterprise! You'd think they were inventing the cure for Cancer.
> 
> 
> M.*


----------



## slocko

Please pretty please, have this done before Star Trek. NBC I don't care anymore since I can get that from Directv.


----------



## dturturro

I suspect you'll only get NBC until the Olympics is over. I've seen nothing on D* website indicating that NBCHD is a permanent addition.


As far as UPN goes, they have a transmitter in New Haven, CT on channel 39 (or 59). Visit: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/ (courtesy of dswallow) to get your distance and bearing to the transmitter.


If anyone on Long Island can pull this station in please post signal strength, equipment and location.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I suspect you'll only get NBC until the Olympics is over. I've seen nothing on D* website indicating that NBCHD is a permanent addition.*



E&W feeds of NBC on Directv is a done deal. They never announce much on their website until it is actually available.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=430160 



> Quote:
> *As far as UPN goes, they have a transmitter in New Haven, CT on channel 39 (or 59). Visit: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/ (courtesy of dswallow) to get your distance and bearing to the transmitter.
> 
> 
> If anyone on Long Island can pull this station in please post signal strength, equipment and location.*



I can't pull in this station from Norwalk, CT. I haven't tried recently, but wasn't able to when they first went HD last year.


Also, even when the combiner is complete, do we know for sure that WWOR will be in HD?


----------



## trekkerj




> Quote:
> Also, even when the combiner is complete, do we know for sure that WWOR will be in HD? [/b]



Yes, a few months ago I emailed that question to an engineer for WWOR, and he replied that it would be.


----------



## chrome




> Quote:
> If anyone on Long Island can pull this station in please post signal strength, equipment and location.




I live in Suffolk County, Brentwood(North)


I have D* and a samsung 360

My TV is a Hitachi 57XWX20B(Built in hd tuner)


I get UPN from connecticut ch 59-1

at signal strength at 45% to 55%


I have a rotor and a channel master 7777


signal comes in clear and for the first time i saw enterprise on hd(wow)


bad news is that the mets broadcast from this channel but this channel doesnt carry it in hd?

anyone know why not?


----------



## dturturro

chrome, what type of antenna are you using?


----------



## andrewjnyc

BJohn, I'd buy your antenna if I was able to make it down to Church St. or Floral Park tomorrow/Saturday, but I don't think I can. A retailer in midtown, Chelsea or the Lower East Side would be great.


I've scoured the websites of dozens of local merchants, and everyone and their brother carries the Terk antenna, which online reviews suggest is a POS, while no-one in town seems to carry the Silver Sensor. I'm amazed--are Terk's salesguys total strongarm types who won't let their customers carry Zenith too?


Amazon really screwed me on this antenna--they said it'd ship Monday and I'd have it by now, but it shipped yesterday--from fricking Nevada! I've never had an Amazon order ship from anywhere other than the East Coast before. The tracking info says I'll get it next Wednesday, and my TV arrives Saturday. I guess I can just watch DVDs and SD on it until Wednesday, but it blows to finally be getting an HDTV after all these years and to have to wait until I can watch any HDTV on it! It'd be so satisfying to return the antenna to Amazon after they hosed me on this--I could have ordered it from a million other places but I chose them because of their reliability and service over the years, and now they leave me high and dry. If anyone can point me towards a B&M where I can get the antenna, I'd be really, really grateful!


----------



## tvuser1

When I first got my HDTV, I just used a clothes hanger as an antenna, and got half-way decent reception until I get my Silver sensor. If you're that close to the signal where a Silver sensor will work, you might just want to hook up any old antenna that you might have. At least it will be something to do until your silver sensor arrives.


----------



## joev

andrewjnyc


I was able to buy a silver sensor at the sears in forest hills/kew gardens area last year. An easy subway ride. Plus I was able to return it because it did no better than my $2.99 UHF bowtie from RS. Try a cheap UHF antenna from RS you may be pleased.


Joe


----------



## marksn1

Has anyone been able to pick up ABC with any regularity. Is used to get this station in HD OAR but recently it has been impossible. I know that it was down for awhile but I thought the tweaking was done.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## Infominister

I spoke to an engineer at WABC today who said that the station expects to resume digital broadcasting on Monday or Tuesday at the same power they were using before going low power a couple/few weeks ago. Sometime thereafter, there'll be a slight power boost as a result of the work they've been doing since earlier this month.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Anyone catch the Giants / Panthers game on FOX? Glorious HD!*



Definitely not HD. Nice Widescreen, but not HD.


----------



## GRN

What are they? 480p? Some of those on-field shots look damn good!


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *What are they? 480p? Some of those on-field shots look damn good!*



Read through this thread. It tells everything about FOX and their HD/Plans.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=435569


----------



## TAKKL

I'm getting 80% signal strength on 24-1 but can't lock. Anyone able to lock?


----------



## GRN

Did the WABC engineers drop something?









http://1010wins.com/topstories/winst...232133709.html


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TAKKL_
> *I'm getting 80% signal strength on 24-1 but can't lock. Anyone able to lock?*



Same thing here. Both a Dish 921 and a Hipix card get signal on channel 24 but neither one can do anything with it. I have noticed the signal for about a week. I assume it is WNYE-DT.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

Is ABC still running their HD demo/loop Late Friday night? If so does anyone know what time?


----------



## console




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by marksn1_
> *Has anyone been able to pick up ABC with any regularity. Is used to get this station in HD OAR but recently it has been impossible. I know that it was down for awhile but I thought the tweaking was done.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark*



UPDATES PLEASE: Is ABC 7.1 back on the air? What was/is the problem with these people?


Thanks.


jh


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by console_
> *UPDATES PLEASE: Is ABC 7.1 back on the air? What was/is the problem with these people?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> jh*



I think so...(as of 5:55pm)


I'm getting it--but the Radio Double Bow Tie is aimed in a weird direction right now to pick up ABC.


You might have to do a quick reorientation....


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *I think so...(as of 5:55pm)
> 
> 
> I'm getting it--but the Radio Double Bow Tie is aimed in a weird direction right now to pick up ABC.
> 
> 
> You might have to do a quick reorientation....*



Why would you have to do a reorientation if the signal is coming from the same exact spot it was coming from before..................


----------



## justjoe

Anyone know if the Jets game will be in hd on ABC tonite? Titantv shows espn will carry hd but I'm sure that will be blacked out.


----------



## PDPnNJ

Why would the game be blacked out ? ESPN and ABC are owned by the same company.


----------



## justjoe

Look in the programming forum. Thats the exact same thing I just posted!


----------



## chrome




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *chrome, what type of antenna are you using?*



I am using a regular Radio Shack Antenna


----------



## console

Am I the only one still having intermittant trouble receiving 7.1 on LI? It seems to be OUT more than its IN. Can someone please enlighten?


jh


----------



## Scott G

WABC-DT is back up to Full Power !!!!!!!!


I am getting 100 on the signal meter for WABC-Dt this morning. That is the highest it has been in weeks.


Scott


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by console_
> *Am I the only one still having intermittant trouble receiving 7.1 on LI? It seems to be OUT more than its IN. Can someone please enlighten?
> 
> 
> jh*



Finally! I am getting 7.1 and 7.2 at about 65-66%. Lower than before (70-73%) but a strong signal with no breakup. I'm out in West Hempstead, LI.....


----------



## Yung

I just ordered my Sony 34XBR960 from CC for delivery the first week of September. As I don't have satellite or cable yet, I am looking for a antenna, preferably indoor, to receive OTA HDTV signals. I have skimmed these boards and there is a a lot of mention of the Zenith/Gemini Silver Sensor. I'm wondering if this product will work for me? Any opinions would be appreciated.


According to www.antennaweb.org, here is a conservative prediction of the digital stations I can receive from my location.



DTV Antenna Call Sign Channel Network City Compass Miles Frequency

Type Orientation From Assignment

* red - uhf WPXN-DT 30.1 PAX NEW YORK 277° 13.5 30

* red - uhf WNYE-DT 24.1 PBS NEW YORK 268° 11.9 24

* red - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX New York 288° 12 44

* red - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON 288° 12 40

* red - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN 277° 13.5 36

* red - uhf WRNN-DT 48.1 IND KINGSTON 2° 53.1 48

* red - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC New York 292° 11.7 28

* red - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC New York 291° 12.1 45

* red - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS New York 288° 12 56

* blue - uhf WLIW-DT 21.1 PBS Garden City 90° 16.4 22

* blue - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK 291° 12.1 53

* blue - vhf WPIX-DT 11.1 WB NEW YORK 288° 12 12


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Yung_
> *I just ordered my Sony 34XBR960 from CC for delivery the first week of September. As I don't have satellite or cable yet, I am looking for a antenna, preferably indoor, to receive OTA HDTV signals. I have skimmed these boards and there is a a lot of mention of the Zenith/Gemini Silver Sensor. I'm wondering if this product will work for me? Any opinions would be appreciated.
> *





Yung: A pinpoint of your location would be helpful.


----------



## dturturro

Yung, you look like you're closer to NYC than I am. I use an RCA ANT3036X rooftop antenna with a CM 7777 preamp and I receive most of the stations you list. I can't get WNYE, XTV, NJU or RNN. NBC & PIX are spotty, but both are currently transmitting at low power. WHEN the combiner is complete they'll be fine. You may need a rotor to pick up LIW. I'm closer to them than you are and I barely receive them due to the orientation.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Finally! I am getting 7.1 and 7.2 at about 65-66%. Lower than before (70-73%) but a strong signal with no breakup. I'm out in West Hempstead, LI.....*



Similar results here in Selden. Less signal than before, but no breakups.


Also getting WTNH out of New Haven again. Odd that they both come back the same day.


----------



## Yung




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *Yung: A pinpoint of your location would be helpful.*



I'm in Queens, NY, about 4-5 miles from the Nassau county border.


----------



## hdtvforme

seldenpat,


What type of antenna setup do you have. I'm in Selden myself

and I've been experimenting with various antennas to see what works best.



I've tried an RS corner Yagi, an RS VHF/UHF combo that I got on clearance

for $2.97 and I just put up a DB8 over the weekend. I've also got

a CM 7777 amp.


I'm curious if I should check out a high gain Yagi.


Whats been working for you ?


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hdtvforme_
> *seldenpat,
> 
> 
> What type of antenna setup do you have. I'm in Selden myself
> 
> and I've been experimenting with various antennas to see what works best.
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried an RS corner Yagi, an RS VHF/UHF combo that I got on clearance
> 
> for $2.97 and I just put up a DB8 over the weekend. I've also got
> 
> a CM 7777 amp.
> 
> 
> I'm curious if I should check out a high gain Yagi.
> 
> 
> Whats been working for you ?*



Check out the CM4228 about 50 bucks from warrenelectronics.com and worth every penny! UHF only antenna, but if you want only NYC it's great!


I have a CM4228 pointed towards NYC and a RS190 VHF/UHF pointed towards New Haven in the attic joined with a CM7777 preamp. I get high CBS and FOX NYC signals with no breakups, and now ABC again from NYC and New Haven. Medium signal on both, but no breakups. I sometimes get NBC from NYC when there are some good Tropo effects, but very rarely. I expect to get everything with this setup when/if the combiner goes live.


Where in Selden are you?


----------



## hdtvforme




> Quote:
> Check out the CM4228 about 50 bucks from warrenelectronics.com and worth every penny! UHF only antenna, but if you want only NYC it's great!
> 
> 
> I have a CM4228 pointed towards NYC and a RS190 VHF/UHF pointed towards New Haven in the attic joined with a CM7777 preamp. I get high CBS and FOX NYC signals with no breakups, and now ABC again from NYC and New Haven. Medium signal on both, but no breakups. I sometimes get NBC from NYC when there are some good Tropo effects, but very rarely. I expect to get everything with this setup when/if the combiner goes live.
> 
> 
> Where in Selden are you?



The DB8 is very similar to the 4228 ( 8 bay bow ). It's a bit smaller and made of aluminum so it's lighter but it's twice the price of the 4228.


My main issue is that I have a massive amount of trees to deal with. I'm literally surrounded by 40' - 70' maples and oaks. The DB8 is aimed directly into trees when facing NYC. FOX comes in the strongest of all the stations I receive from NYC. CBS seems to be coming in well but I need a few more days to judge it. ABC dropped a few times earlier tonight but has been solid since ( then again everything comes in better when the sun goes down ).


I'm having trouble locking WTNH across the sound with my current setup. The funny thing is I adjusted the DB8 so that it was aimed up at about a 15 degree angle. WTNH locked in solid when the back of the antenna ( tilted toward the ground at 15 degrees )was facing Connecticut. Strange indeed.

unfortunately all my other stations suffered from the 15 degree tilt.


I plan on adding an Antennacraft Y10-7-13 for WTNH. The DB8 appears to be working well, I just wonder if a high gain Yagi would perform better with the tree situation compared to the 8 bay bow.


I'm north of Middle Country Road


----------



## hdtvforme

I'm actually getting NBC right now.......


----------



## seldenpat

HDTVforme,


I'm pointed straight into a thick of pine trees, but it really doesn't effect my reception, even with an attic mount. I was able to pick up some NBC tonight as well.


Good luck and let me know what you decide to do.


----------



## Infominister

As a station engineer had promised me, WABC-DT was restored last night to at least what its power had been before the last few weeks of work on the transmitter. It was strong and steady for me during the game. Given the reports here of good WNBC-DT reception last night, I'm wondering whether that was due to good atmospheric conditions, or whether the WABC-DT work really resulted in some signal improvement?


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *As a station engineer had promised me, WABC-DT was restored last night to at least what its power had been before the last few weeks of work on the transmitter. It was strong and steady for me during the game. Given the reports here of good WNBC-DT reception last night, I'm wondering whether that was due to good atmospheric conditions, or whether the WABC-DT work really resulted in some signal improvement?*



I checked ABC this morning and still had steady signal, but much lower than last night. It was in that 60% range, comparable to what I had before the work was done. NBC was gone.


----------



## George Thompson

It's been foggy up around Cortlandt the past few nights, which might have the effect of air (edit - temperature) inversion? Signals bounce off of those.

In another vein, the infamous combiner is in place and in the process of having its plumbing connected to the various transmitters. Another 2 months maybe? Hang in there.

GT


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *
> 
> In another vein, the infamous combiner is in place and in the process of having its plumbing connected to the various transmitters. Another 2 months maybe? Hang in there.
> 
> GT*



That is good news...


this finally sounds like the real deal and I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.


Yipeee..


thanks for the reliable update George--We can always count on you for the inside scoop.


----------



## rh2019

I am puzzle as to why I am not getting ABC-DT (no-signal) while the other DT such as NBC, CBS, WB would come in fine for me. I live in Brooklyn Bensonhurst area. I have a Winegard 7080 I am wondering if the RS 15-2507 would help in this case.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *I still think that there is nothing really called a combiner. I think that it's a made up word that all the networks that aren't broadcasting at full power use to make people think that they're doing all they can. 'We'll we'd like to give you HD, but we're waiting on the combiner project'. Four years from now, when we'll all be able to get a signal from directv, cable or dish, then and only then will they announce that they're no longer pursuing the 'combiner' project.
> 
> 
> I think the pseudonym comes from the fact that if you 'combine' all of the logic and desire of these stations, you'd be able to fill up that made up storage room at the empire state building where this miracle of technology is supposed to be built.
> 
> 
> OK I'm done venting now...
> 
> 
> Doug*



If you have ever had the "pleasure" of dealing with the combiner commitees up there (there are diff groups, TVs got one, the master FM group, etc) then you'd realise that acts of congress can pass quicker then even the most minor projects that have to take place at Empire...also take into account that because the building is a landmark there are even more delays when it comes time to be breaking down walls and running new power feeders, etc its not like your building all this out in a field in PA and can do whatever the hell you want.


----------



## DTVDAD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *In another vein, the infamous combiner is in place and in the process of having its plumbing connected to the various transmitters. Another 2 months maybe? Hang in there. GT*



Thanks for the good news George!


----------



## Infominister

Anyone having reception problems tonight? I'm losing even WCBS-DT.


----------



## GRN

I have a quick question: I am able to pick up WNJN-DT on 52-1, 52-2, 52-3, 52-4, and 52-5. all at 60%+. Sometimes when I'm watching, the channels switch over to 51-1, 51-2, and 51-3 (I lose 52-4 and 52-5). The programs on the corresponding 1, 2 and 3 channels stay the same, though. Sometimes it constantly switches back and forth between channels 52 and 51, both onscreen and in my channel guide. Anyone know why this happens................?


----------



## mad6c

WCBS-DT has been spotty for me the last few weeks. It's strange because that used to be my most reliable station. I haven't really worried about it too much, I'll be more concerned when the season&football start up. Everything else (NBC, ABC, WPIX) has been coming in great, since ABC switched back on.


Mike


----------



## jcord51

I really don't get it, you guys are saying that you are able to get ABC and WPIX well I have a signal strength of 80 (45 is WABC with a lock) and do not get a picture. For FOX and PIX I can not get any signal at 44. WNBC is now my strongest signal provider (28) with a signal of 88. My Windgard is aimed at 312 degrees and I live about 10 miles from ESB!


----------



## George Thompson

Here is an educated guess on what may be happening with WCBS-DT and the rest of the digital stations. Anytime you change the signal path, particularly with a tuing device, the VSWR or Voltage Standing Wave Ratio, changes. These are reflected waves coming back from the antenna and tuning device. The idea is to minimize the ratio to say 1.1 :1, (its been a long time and I do not remember what readings I got at various stations), for maximum radiated output and greatest efficiency or less damage to the final output of the transmitter.

Prudent engineering practices would dictate that you run a transmitter at lower output to see how it handles the new load and while you tune for lowest ratio. Each transmitter has a separate tuning plunger on the combiner that effects the others pipes. I dont think the final tuning happens until everyone is connected. Until then they run at reduced power. This is from past experience of two decades ago so take it for what its worth from an old RF engineer.

Also, you have crews working on a hot tower. You dont want to fry them.

GT


----------



## console




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcord51_
> *I really don't get it, you guys are saying that you are able to get ABC and WPIX well I have a signal strength of 80 (45 is WABC with a lock) and do not get a picture. For FOX and PIX I can not get any signal at 44. WNBC is now my strongest signal provider (28) with a signal of 88. My Windgard is aimed at 312 degrees and I live about 10 miles from ESB!*



I have SONY HD300 so meter doesn't give numerical signal strength ... only BAD / NORMAL / GOOD (I think this is stupid - numerical is better of course)


9:29AM est


Ch. 2 - WCBS/DT/2.1 (56) GOOD (high)


Ch. 4 - WNBC/DT/4.1 (28) GOOD (mid-low) perfect HD Olympics


Ch. 5 - WNYW/DT/5.1 (44) GOOD (mid) FOX


Ch. 9 - WNYW/DT/5.2 (44) (GOOD (mid) UPN


Ch. 7 - WABC/DT/7.1 (45) (GOOD) (mid)


Ch. 11-WPIX/DT/11.1 (12) (NO SIGNAL) !


Ch. 13-WNET/DT/13.1 (61) (NO SIGNAL)


Somehow this all seems like the 1950's with rabbit ears. I'm sitting here with a $600 antenna system and a $500 STB and a $8000 Plasma ... trying to get a signal.


----------



## console




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by console_
> *I have SONY HD300 so meter doesn't give numerical signal strength ... only BAD / NORMAL / GOOD (I think this is stupid - numerical is better of course)
> 
> 
> 9:29AM est
> 
> 
> Ch. 2 - WCBS/DT/2.1 (56) GOOD (high)
> 
> 
> Ch. 4 - WNBC/DT/4.1 (28) GOOD (mid-low) perfect HD Olympics
> 
> 
> Ch. 5 - WNYW/DT/5.1 (44) GOOD (mid) FOX
> 
> 
> Ch. 9 - WNYW/DT/5.2 (44) (GOOD (mid) UPN
> 
> 
> Ch. 7 - WABC/DT/7.1 (45) (GOOD) (mid)
> 
> 
> Ch. 11-WPIX/DT/11.1 (12) (NO SIGNAL) !
> 
> 
> Ch. 13-WNET/DT/13.1 (61) (NO SIGNAL)
> 
> 
> Somehow this all seems like the 1950's with rabbit ears. I'm sitting here with a $600 antenna system and a $500 STB and a $8000 Plasma ... trying to get a signal.*



I forgot to mention that I'm on N.S. of LI about 25 miles out with a 237 antenna setting.


----------



## vruiz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Here is an educated guess on what may be happening with WCBS-DT and the rest of the digital stations. Anytime you change the signal path, particularly with a tuing device, the VSWR or Voltage Standing Wave Ratio, changes. These are reflected waves coming back from the antenna and tuning device. The idea is to minimize the ratio to say 1.1 :1, (its been a long time and I do not remember what readings I got at various stations), for maximum radiated output and greatest efficiency or less damage to the final output of the transmitter.
> 
> Prudent engineering practices would dictate that you run a transmitter at lower output to see how it handles the new load and while you tune for lowest ratio. Each transmitter has a separate tuning plunger on the combiner that effects the others pipes. I dont think the final tuning happens until everyone is connected. Until then they run at reduced power. This is from past experience of two decades ago so take it for what its worth from an old RF engineer.
> 
> Also, you have crews working on a hot tower. You dont want to fry them.
> 
> GT*



George, you seem to be talking about different transmitters at the same location. Does this mean they are already transmitting from the combiner site? If not, why would the signal path need to be changed?


----------



## Pikachu

Hi, I'm located in Flushing,NY and I checked antennaweb and found that all the channels I get are Red and one red. I'm about 8 miles away from the tower. Should I be getting a decent signal with a set top antenna for HD?


----------



## John Mason

Suspect so, Pikachu, if you could point it at mid-town Manhattan without too many obstructions. By contrast, I'm about 8 blocks from the transmitters, facing North, and can only tune CBS via reflections. Welcome to the forums. -- John


----------



## Pikachu

Thanks! I have clear sight directly to the city. I just got a $4k plasma and everyone told me to get a OTA hd receiver so I'm going to do that. However I can't decide on which antenna to get. I prefer to get it at bestbuy or circuit city or anywhere local. I can go to a radio shack as well.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

From your proximity you could use a Radio Shack Double Bow Tie or a Silver Sensor and be fine. I am in Brooklyn with a clear line of site I used to have a Radio Shack Double Bow Tie inside my window and was able to pick up everything but the WB digital.


Here's a link to the radio shack double bow tie.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...ct_id=930-0998


----------



## Pikachu

What's interesting is that there is a Trek antenna that looks much like the silver sensor one. It happens to be sold at best buy.


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vruiz_
> *George, you seem to be talking about different transmitters at the same location. Does this mean they are already transmitting from the combiner site? If not, why would the signal path need to be changed?*



All of the stations need to have their transmission lines re-routed through the combiner. That is so they can have one antenna with 5/6 transmitters attached. You cannot have one antenna with 5 transmission lines attached or else they would be feeding back to the other transmitters and causing huge SWR reflections that would burn up the finals, plus a lot of other RF problems. (Harmonics, reamplification, etc)

This saves on mast space so that each station does not have to have their own antenna and fighting for position and the interactions that that causes with RF.

I do not know if anyone is connected at the moment, just that they are getting ready and routing more rigid transmission line through the floors. Since WCBS is already on the antenna, they have to reroute first. I believe that all the stations have their digital transmitters ready to go.

GT


----------



## icemannyr

I was just thinking as I watched a bit of Soundstage on WNET-HD that the PQ is just as bad as WNBC-DT's Olympic coverage.

On WNET-HD any fast camera movement or fast movement of objects results in pixelation.


Both channels seem to be defeating the purpose of HD with the poor picture quality. Are others noticing this on those channels?


----------



## skyhawk223

Yes. I noticed as well. I receive those channels through Cablevision.


----------



## icemannyr

I believe the WNET-DT issue is due to the sub channels taking away bandwith from the main HD channel. I've also heard when WNET puts their bug logo over the PBS HD feed shows it also effects the video.


----------



## Shockwave10

Hi I Live in Rosedale , Queens. I bought a Channel Master UHF/VHF from Radio Shack that has a 120 range. I have the antenna strapped to my chimney on a 10ft pole. I am able to receive these networks

ABC LOOKS THE BEST even with a 80% signal .


NBC

ABC

UPN

WPIX

PBS


And a bunch of other Digital channels according to my 911 dishnetwork box.

I don't understand Why I cant get CBS HD at all .


Dishnet work is offering CBS local ,but for some reason I think the picture quality will be much better OTA.


By the way I just had the Dish installers but put the thing up ......they did not point it in specific any direction.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shockwave10_
> *By the way I just had the Dish installers but put the thing up ......they did not point it in specific any direction.
> 
> Dishnet work is offering CBS local ,but for some reason I think the picture quality will be much better OTA.
> *



You should have no problem receiving WCBS-DT from Rosedale. If your antenna was randomly pointed, that could be why you are not getting them. It should obviously be pointed at midtown Manhattan. Even your 80 strength for WABC may be low (I get 115 on Dish Network's 0 to 125 scale with an attic antenna about two miles east of you).


CBS on Dish Network is identical in picture quality to WCBS-DT over the air (as far as I can tell).


911 receiver? Do you mean 811 or 921?


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> I don't understand Why I cant get CBS HD at all



Shockwave10, You must not be pointing your antenna correctly...CBS-DT is one of the most powerful signal! I live over 25 miles from the Empire State Building and I get CBS-DT and CBS-SD! It is funny how your able to receive two of the most weakest signal WPIX and PBS.


Tony


----------



## vinnyv07

The sub ch for CBS SD shows up in my ch guide but I never see anything on the ch. Its a blank screen. When do they use the sub ch?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *When do they use the sub ch?*



Last time I saw video was during the last convention. Maybe it will be used tomorrow (8-30).


----------



## Shockwave10

Does anyone know what direction the antenna should be pointed ?


I know they said midtown but I am wondering if I should do this myself or have a professional do this?


----------



## SnellKrell

CBS HD emanates from the Empire State Building -

34th Street and Fifth Avenue in Manhattan.


Gary


----------



## s236

Shock, This link will point you in right direction







After you enter your address click on "View level street map" button.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx 



Tony


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shockwave10_
> *Does anyone know what direction the antenna should be pointed ?
> 
> 
> I know they said midtown but I am wondering if I should do this myself or have a professional do this?*



It should be pointed at the Empire State Building for WCBS-DT. That is approximately a 300 degree bearing from Rosedale.

If you are not sure what direction that is, I would look at a lot of houses in your neighborhood. If the majority of them have antennas pointing in the same general direction, you can assume that is how yours should be pointed.


----------



## Shockwave10

I live in a Cape style home , can you guys recommend a installer who can point this in the right direction ? It is most definilty pointed in the wrong direction right now just looking at other homes in the area.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Has anyone else noticed the WCBS-DT signal disappearing overnight? I have a season pass set for Letterman on my HD DirecTivo, and every night it would only record the first half hour of the show. I thought perhaps it was conflicting with another season pass until I tried to record Joan of Arcadia at 1:30 AM (or something like that) and it didn't record because there was no signal detected. I then switched the Letterman season pass from WCBS-DT off of the antenna to CBS via DirecTV (SD) and it recorded the entire show, while a recording I set for the same show on WCBS-DT OTA recorded only halfway through.


And now that I think about it, I will switch the season pass to the DirecTV feed of WCBS-DT rather than the SD feed on DirecTV and see how that works out.


----------



## DjPiLL

I have been out of the loop on this thread for a while now.


Has the combiner package been completed yet? Any word on getting WB11 on the UHF band and any chance of getting UPN in hi-def?


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> Has anyone else noticed the WCBS-DT signal disappearing overnight?



GoldenBoy, I think it has something to do with the combiner. Page back to page 133 and read on!


Tony


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> Has the combiner package been completed yet?



From what I read here should be ready in a few months.


Tony


----------



## Infominister

By November, we're told.


----------



## trekkerj

It's really amazing. That the exact thing we were told last summer, about Nov 2003. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *It's really amazing. That the exact thing we were told last summer, about Nov 2003. Fingers crossed.*



I was wondering who was going to point that out.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

By the way, anyone given any thoughts to what we are going to complain about once the combiner is actually up and running? The combiner was such an easy target for ranting. We will have a hard time find such an easy mark again.


----------



## vinnyv07

Im not going to complain about anything...nothing at all.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *By the way, anyone given any thoughts to what we are going to complain about once the combiner is actually up and running? The combiner was such an easy target for ranting. We will have a hard time find such an easy mark again.*




I don't need to give it any thought. I can complain at a moments notice. It's a gift!










N


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *By the way, anyone given any thoughts to what we are going to complain about once the combiner is actually up and running? The combiner was such an easy target for ranting. We will have a hard time find such an easy mark again.*



I'm going to complain about when the Freedom Tower will be completed so us OTA'ers will have even better choices...


Speaking of complaints...


What's up with WNBC-DT? Is hasn't been back up since the end of the 24hr olympic broadcast.


Anyone?


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> What's up with WNBC-DT? Is hasn't been back up since the end of the 24hr olympic broadcast.



John, I'm getting WNBC-DT as well WNBC-SD since the end of the Olympics here in NJ!


Tony


----------



## scottb4u

I am also having a problem with NBC-DT here in northern NJ. I get sound--but no picture. Occasionally I will get a picture, but it is sporatic.


I have had perfect reception throughout the olympics.


----------



## icemannyr

I think where was a problem with NBC-HD feed last night. It was not till 12:08AM that the Tonight Show was in HD for the east coast HD stations.


The problem I still notice is the over compression on the SD and HD programming on WNBC-DT.

Any moving of the camera shot or a person in motion even if it's not fast causes alot of pixelation.

Anyone else notice this? Is there a problem that WNBC-DT knows about?


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by scottb4u_
> *I am also having a problem with NBC-DT here in northern NJ. I get sound--but no picture. Occasionally I will get a picture, but it is sporatic.
> 
> 
> I have had perfect reception throughout the olympics.*



Yeah--the Olympics were great for me too.(signal wise---not picture wise)I had no problems locking on.


I usually get NBC no problem with my Radio Shack doublebow tie here in Woodside, Queens.


But since Monday..I've haven't been able to lock on to NBC--I assumed it was a station problem.


The samsung box shows a green/signal lite...but then no picture.


Every other channel that I can receive is fine though.


Will try again tonight....


----------



## dm145

NBC-DT seems to be down right now?


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *NBC-DT seems to be down right now?*



No dice for me. I can't lock onto 4.1 I can get 4.2 though.

So weird.


Actually...all the OTA channels around here have been messed up since the start of the Republican National Convention...


I'm speculating that it must be all those satellite uplinks and feeds from there--not to mention the US Open...


It's causing all kinds of havoc for me...all the OTA digital channels just seem to be "off."


Weird..


----------



## icemannyr

WNBC-DT is working via cablevision.


One odd thing I notice is WNYW-DT now has a FOX5 WNYW*NEW YORK bug logo stuck on it which is very annoying. Not to mention its not channel number 5


----------



## tvuser1

When the combiner project is completed, which HD stations will broadcast from it?


----------



## jcord51




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcord51_
> *I really don't get it, you guys are saying that you are able to get ABC and WPIX well I have a signal strength of 80 (45 is WABC with a lock) and do not get a picture. For FOX and PIX I can not get any signal at 44. WNBC is now my strongest signal provider (28) with a signal of 88. My Windgard is aimed at 312 degrees and I live about 10 miles from ESB!*



I've been reading the posts and seem to feel that the guys in jersey get WABC channel 7 while I can not get it here in Queens even though I have a great signal. Anyone in Queens have problems with WABC?


----------



## bjohn




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcord51_
> *I've been reading the posts and seem to feel that the guys in jersey get WABC channel 7 while I can not get it here in Queens even though I have a great signal. Anyone in Queens have problems with WABC?*




I have no problems in floral park receiving WABC.


----------



## trekkerj

No problems here.


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcord51_
> *I've been reading the posts and seem to feel that the guys in jersey get WABC channel 7 while I can not get it here in Queens even though I have a great signal. Anyone in Queens have problems with WABC?*



I get WABC here in Woodside Queens...but it takes a second or two longer to "lock" then usual this past week.


WNBC-DT is still out for me...anyone else? [I can get the subchannel though...]


----------



## UroDoc

I'm getting NBC-DT 4.01 and 4.02 without any problem in Nassau County. I also have no problem receiving ABC and its subchannel. Last night I recorded a signal on CBS subchannel at 9 PM for the first time wihile I was taping CSI. It was an interview of President and Mrs. Bush. The picture quality was poor. CSI on the other hand had great picture quality.


My opinion to CBS and NBC and ABC ......DITCH the subchannels - All bandwidth to HDTV.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tvuser1_
> *When the combiner project is completed, which HD stations will broadcast from it?*



WCBS, WNBC, WABC, WWOR, WPIX, and WNET.


----------



## Scottie318

I too am having issues with WNBC-DT. I will be attempting more tinkering tomorrow with the Silver Sensor. During the olympics, I was having no trouble at about 72% signal strength. When WNBC-DT resumed broadcasting last year, I had a solid 80%. On another note, would upgrading to a roof antenna with a long UHF range allow me to consistently receive any analog/digital stations from Philadelphia? I am in Nutley, Essex County, NJ. Antenna web says a "violet" antenna would allow me to possibly receive channels from CT and Philadelphia. I don't know how reliable this data is.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scottie318_
> *On another note, would upgrading to a roof antenna with a long UHF range allow me to consistently receive any analog/digital stations from Philadelphia? I am in Nutley, Essex County, NJ. Antenna web says a "violet" antenna would allow me to possibly receive channels from CT and Philadelphia.*



I doubt if you would have reliable reception. You are over 70 air miles from both Philadelphia and New Haven. That is usually too far for consistent reception under normal circumstances.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *WCBS, WNBC, WABC, WWOR, WPIX, and WNET.*



Is that correct about WNET (PBS) or did you mean WNYW (FOX)? I would love to see WNET move to high power off of the combiner. Currently only a handful of people can get this HD-PBS station. Especially since we lost WLIW out of Garden City.


----------



## Infominister

I believe WNET-DT is supposed to be up there, too. WNYW and WWOR currently share the same transmitter and may continue to do so when the combiner's completed. Or, perhaps there are going to be seven stations.


----------



## stracke

I live in Brooklyn a mere 1.92 miles from the WNYE broadcast facility. On my Samsung I get a solid green light for signal lock-on and the most signal bars of any station on my strength meter (I know they're unreliable, but there is a point of comparison).


Despite these positive indications there is no picture, no sound and the tuner tells me there is no signal. Does anyone else see anything similar. Any reason why this should be?


I do get abc, nbc, pxn, fox, pix with a bit of fiddling with antenna direction.


----------



## fredd




> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> 
> *Has anyone else noticed the WCBS-DT signal disappearing overnight?
> 
> 
> I've seen this for well over a year now. They just stop broadcasting on their DT channel after midnight. Nice huh? The CBS network OAO flagship DT station doesn't even stay on the air past midnight -pathetic.*


----------



## rgrossman




> _Originally posted by fredd_
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally posted by GoldenBoy
> Has anyone else noticed the WCBS-DT signal disappearing overnight?
> 
> 
> I've seen this for well over a year now. They just stop broadcasting on their DT channel after midnight. Nice huh? The CBS network OAO flagship DT station doesn't even stay on the air past midnight -pathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess you're not old enough to remember when all stations signed off each night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stracke_
> *I live in Brooklyn a mere 1.92 miles from the WNYE broadcast facility. On my Samsung I get a solid green light for signal lock-on and the most signal bars of any station on my strength meter (I know they're unreliable, but there is a point of comparison).
> 
> 
> Despite these positive indications there is no picture, no sound and the tuner tells me there is no signal. Does anyone else see anything similar. Any reason why this should be?
> 
> *



I get the same thing on WNYE. I Emailed them about the situation but they did not respond. Here is a thread about it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...readid=434184&


----------



## Yung

Ok, I just got my Sony KD-34XBR960 delivered about 2 1/2 hours ago. I don't have cable or satellite and am just using about a 6 year old indoor rabbit-ear antenna from Recoton with UHF/VHF gain contol.


I ran the autosetup...it only took about 10-15 minutes since I am only using OTA. The Auto setup pulled in about 22 analog channels and 9 digital channels. Digital pictures look really sharp, I was watching some of the U.S. Open on ch 2.1


I get bad reception on the normal analog channels, but digital is pretty good. Signal strength for CBS digital varies from 78-84 and it does cut out once in a while. Is this normal?


I get about 91-94 strength from ABC HD ch 7.1 Is this considered good? The picture seems pretty stable


The other channels vary from 81-84 signal strength although NBC DT is pretty weak with signal strength in the mid-to-upper 50's..lots of pixelization on that channel when I do get a signal.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Yung_
> *
> 
> 
> I get about 91-94 strength from ABC HD ch 7.1 Is this considered good? The picture seems pretty stable
> 
> 
> The other channels vary from 81-84 signal strength although NBC DT is pretty weak with signal strength in the mid-to-upper 50's..lots of pixelization on that channel when I do get a signal.*



I've gone as low as 61% on a channel (WNJN) with crystal clear picture and no breakup. Anything above that should be good. If you're hitting above 80% you should be in great shape. Almost all my channels come in at 65-69%, clear as day with no breakup, including the ever-elusive WPIX










As far as NCB-DT goes with its weak signal, welcome to the club. Until the combiner goes up, I wouldn't bet on getting a strong signal on it (especially with an older antenna). BTW I have a DISH 811 receiver.


----------



## Yung

I am using an 8-year old indoor Recoton TV800 Powerwave VHF/UHF/FM antenna with built in amplifier with up to 28 DB gain for VHF and up to 30 DB gain for UHF. This was my wife's previous antenna and cost around $80 back in the day.


I'm pulling in 9 digital stations here in Oakland Gardens section of Queens.


Ch 2.1 WCBS-DT Signal Strength 81-84. Although sometimes I lose the signal, happens sometimes when someone walks by the TV.


Ch 2.2 WCBS-SD Signal strength 84-91 but sometimes I just get a blank screen


Ch 4.1 WNBC-DT Signal Strength 51-62


Ch 4.2 WNBC-SD strength 56-65


Ch 5.1 WNYW-DT strength 81-87


Ch 5.2 WWOR-DT 84 [Is this the same as UPN?]


Ch 7.1 WABC-DT signal strength 89-95


Ch 7.2 WABC-SD signal strength 87-95


Ch 53.1 I believe this is Telemundo 84-87



Is signal drop a function of my tv's built in tuner or the antenna? I'm hoping its the latter.


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *No dice for me. I can't lock onto 4.1 I can get 4.2 though.
> 
> So weird.
> 
> 
> Actually...all the OTA channels around here have been messed up since the start of the Republican National Convention...
> 
> 
> I'm speculating that it must be all those satellite uplinks and feeds from there--not to mention the US Open...
> 
> 
> It's causing all kinds of havoc for me...all the OTA digital channels just seem to be "off."
> 
> 
> Weird..*



Well, I guess I was wrong on all counts(on why I couldn't pull in NBC---I get a signal light but that was it)--the two year old Samsung sir t-150 must be defective.


I fortunately have an extra Samsung SIR-151 that has been sitting in the box for a couple months and decided to swap out the 150 with it.


Bingo--4.1 pops right up.


Guess the 2 year old t-150 just gave up the ghost.. but every other channel works....that is one reason why I never suspected the box....it's freakin' maddening!


Anyway...I'll let the 150 "reset" unplugged and see if it "fixes" itself.


The T-150 runs really hot...maybe that is why it burned out so quickly?


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Yung_
> *Is signal drop a function of my tv's built in tuner or the antenna? I'm hoping its the latter.*



I'm no engineer, but I would think that any signal drop/breakup is the result of a weak signal, hence the antenna would be responsible for that, not your TV's tuner. Your TV's tuner locks onto whatever signal it gets from your antenna, it doesn't amplify or strengthen the signal.


BTW 53.1 is WFUT Telefutura/Univision out of NJ. They don't broadcast anything in high-def on that channel, though.


----------



## Yung




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *I'm no engineer, but I would think that any signal drop/breakup is the result of a weak signal, hence the antenna would be responsible for that, not your TV's tuner. Your TV's tuner locks onto whatever signal it gets from your antenna, it doesn't amplify or strengthen the signal.
> 
> 
> BTW 53.1 is WFUT Telefutura/Univision out of NJ. They don't broadcast anything in high-def on that channel, though.*



Thanks. I was also able to pull in PAX on 31.1 and 30.2 tonight.


----------



## RMSko

Is anyone having difficulty with the OTA CBS signal? Mine seems to have deteriorated in the last couple of days.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Since WCBS is already on the antenna, they have to reroute first. I believe that all the stations have their digital transmitters ready to go.
> 
> GT*



Any ideas on what order the networks will be moving to the combiner? I guess a time-line would be asking for the moon?


----------



## Yung




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *Is anyone having difficulty with the OTA CBS signal? Mine seems to have deteriorated in the last couple of days.*



I've only had my HDTV set since noon on this past Saturday, so I can't say for sure. I have noticed a lot of times when I lose the signal on CDB DT thought. My signal strength goes from 84 to 91 and at those times is stable but then it can suddenly drop to the mid-40's and then I get a no signal message and then it comes back.


----------



## icemannyr

Who can we contact to ask them to remove it? Besides being annoying and not the right logo since WNYW-DT is channel 44, I'm sure it's not good for most TV sets for the logo to be there.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Yung_
> *I've only had my HDTV set since noon on this past Saturday, so I can't say for sure. I have noticed a lot of times when I lose the signal on CDB DT thought. My signal strength goes from 84 to 91 and at those times is stable but then it can suddenly drop to the mid-40's and then I get a no signal message and then it comes back.*



That's the way mine is now, however, I used to get signal readings continuously in the 80"s without any dropouts at all (i.e., I'm aso getting periodic readings in the 40's, which I never used to get). It's strange since it goes from 88 to 36 and then back up to 88 (where it holds for a few minutes and then the cycle repeats).


----------



## cjp2004

I am using an OTA with a Hughes E86. I live in Western Suffolk Co. and I've always received close to 100% signal strength for 5-1 and had a perfect picture. however, since about 2 weeks ago, I still have 100% signal with no picture or sound. Last night, I rescanned and received a picture but it went out about 2 minutes later. Does anybody else have this problem? i need to get this resolved before the Giants game this Sunday.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *WCBS-DT recently added a subchannel.*



The WCBS subchannel (2-2) is gone. My Hipix computer now says the data rate for 2-1 is back to 18.5 Mbs (it was down to 16.5 Mbs). If your receiver still has 2-2 in its memory, delete it and rescan. It should now find only 2-1.


----------



## netman

cjp2004,


I have never lost 5-1. My antenna is very low (just a few feet off the roof) so my signal levels are never very high but 5-1 is always stable. I am also in D.P.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *The WCBS subchannel (2-2) is gone. My Hipix computer now says the data rate for 2-1 is back to 18.5 Mbs (it was down to 16.5 Mbs). If your receiver still has 2-2 in its memory, delete it and rescan. It should now find only 2-1.*



Good riddance. Now if only WNBC and WABC will follow suit.


----------



## cjp2004




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *cjp2004,
> 
> 
> I have never lost 5-1. My antenna is very low (just a few feet off the roof) so my signal levels are never very high but 5-1 is always stable. I am also in D.P.*




5-1 was always stable for me too. My STB shows 100% signal, but I get nothing. BTW, I live on Villa.


----------



## UroDoc

No problems receiving 5-1 in Westbury. WCBS picture looks better since they dropped 2-2. WNBC (4-1) looks bad, much as it did during the Olympics. Pixelation present. 4-2 looks fuzzy and is a waste of bandwidth.


----------



## Yung

5-1 seems relatively stable for me and I am using an old indoor antenna. After reorienting my antenna I was able to scan for WPIX DT which came in on 3 channels 11-1, 11-2 and 12-1. It wasn't that stable for me though.


----------



## dm145

Just noticed the thread title change.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> Just noticed the thread title change.



I was just about to post the same thing!


----------



## sangs

Looks like somebody spent a lot of time switching local OTA thread titles across the board, not just this one.


For the record, I still cannot receive 5-1 or 5-2 with any degree of consistency. It remains my only problem channel in the area. Can't wait until it's up on D* - if only for 24, Bernie Mac, the NFL and MLB.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sangs_
> *Looks like somebody spent a lot of time switching local OTA thread titles across the board, not just this one.
> *


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=443315


----------



## GoldenBoy

My HD DirecTivo still shows a 2-2 substation, but it is playing the exact same broadcast as 2-1.


----------



## TAKKL

It seems 24-1 is now active, not HD though. For the past couple of months, I had a solid signal but no video.


----------



## Yung

Does anyone know what channel 51-5 is? I was able to pick it up on my tv's built in tuner tonight but the station was not labeled.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Yung_
> *Does anyone know what channel 51-5 is? I was able to pick it up on my tv's built in tuner tonight but the station was not labeled.*



I have 52-1, 52-2, 52-3, 52-4 and 52-5, all WNJN. Sometimes WNJN maps over to 51, so I'll get 51-1, 51-2, 51-3 and 51-4, all duplicates of channel 52. I've never gotten 51-5, but on 52, 52-4 and 52-5 both play the same content, so I would assume that whatever shows up on 51-5 is the same as whatever shows up on 51-4, WNJN.


----------



## Yung




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *I have 52-1, 52-2, 52-3, 52-4 and 52-5, all WNJN. Sometimes WNJN maps over to 51, so I'll get 51-1, 51-2, 51-3 and 51-4, all duplicates of channel 52. I've never gotten 51-5, but on 52, 52-4 and 52-5 both play the same content, so I would assume that whatever shows up on 51-5 is the same as whatever shows up on 51-4, WNJN.*



I receive (sometimes) 52-1, 52-2, 52-3, and 52-4 as well. I don't get signa;s on the middle two, but noticed that 52-1 and 52-4 have different programming. 51-5 had totally different programming. There was a program on tonight involving Lionel trains and it was broadcast in HD and not just a digital signal. The screen seemed to go blank after the program was over though.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Yung_
> *I receive (sometimes) 52-1, 52-2, 52-3, and 52-4 as well. I don't get signa;s on the middle two, but noticed that 52-1 and 52-4 have different programming. 51-5 had totally different programming. There was a program on tonight involving Lionel trains and it was broadcast in HD and not just a digital signal. The screen seemed to go blank after the program was over though.*



52-1, 52-2, 52-3 and 52-4 show the same exact programming as 51-1, 51-2, 51-3, and 51-4. As a matter of fact, I posted a question on here a while back: I'll be watching a WNJN program, and the channel marker just flips back and forth between 51 and 52. The picture stays the same, just the channel number changes. I have no clue why it does that










I was watching that program on Lionel Trains on 51-4 in HD. So if you were watching it on 51-5, then 51-4 and 51-5 show the same content, like 52-4 and 52-5. 51-2 and 52-2 shows PBS Kids programming, but not in HD. I've caught tons of HD programming on the 3,4 and 5 subchannels.


----------



## Yung

Thanks. I have got my HDTV for only 5 days now and am still learning what channels I can get. Each night I try to reorient my indoor antenna a different way and scan for new digital channels. I have a rooftop antenna (don't know which one) but I don't have a RG6 cable running from it into the house. I'm getting an antenna installer to come install a cable for me sometime in the next week and hopefully I can pick up more signals with the rooftop antenna and hopefully that would solve some of the signal loss issues on some of these channels for me.


----------



## NS324

It used to be that NJN would provide the national PBS feed on sub-channel 5 between 8 PM & midnight, with some of the shows being HD. Unfortunately, the last few times that I have looked for it, there was no signal on that sub-channel.


I don't know if they have changed their practice of providing the national PBS feed, but since you got to see some HD there on Wednesday, it's a good sign that it is still available! I'll look for it on Thursday.


I wonder why they are mapping the channel # to 52; they used to map it to 50 (the channel # of their analog broadcast), and there were also times it would show as 51 (the actual broadcast channel). I wonder if they are doing something wrong with the PSIP, or this is by design.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by NS324_
> *It used to be that NJN would provide the national PBS feed on sub-channel 5 between 8 PM & midnight, with some of the shows being HD. Unfortunately, the last few times that I have looked for it, there was no signal on that sub-channel.
> 
> 
> I don't know if they have changed their practice of providing the national PBS feed, but since you got to see some HD there on Wednesday, it's a good sign that it is still available! I'll look for it on Thursday.
> 
> 
> I wonder why they are mapping the channel # to 52; they used to map it to 50 (the channel # of their analog broadcast), and there were also times it would show as 51 (the actual broadcast channel). I wonder if they are doing something wrong with the PSIP, or this is by design.*



In the "old days" (i.e. 2003 and before







) the HD channel was around. Channel #52 is actually remapped from digital 43 (NJN down in Trenton area IIRC) and Channel #51 is actually NJN from Montclair IIRC.


Two different stations. If you guys are able to check your signal strengths, it's possible that on varying nights you're getting a signal from 43 but not 51 and vice versa.


----------



## dturturro

Has anyone else lost 5-2? I'm getting WNYW on both 5-1 & 5-2 on my HR10-250 and no signal at all on 5-2 with my Zenith 230.


Would I be ridiculously optimistic if I thought this was the opening steps toward getting WWOR-DT on channel 38?


----------



## trekkerj

I get a black screen on 5-2. I'm sure you are being over-optimistic.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> Two different stations. If you guys are able to check your signal strengths, it's possible that on varying nights you're getting a signal from 43 but not 51 and vice versa.



That happens to me sometimes: If I have a signal from 51, then there's no signal from 52, and vice-versa. *However*, I'll be watching, say channel 51-3, and then suddenly it will change to 52-3, then back to 51-3 and so on. The picture does not break up, and it's the exact same programming. I don't understand why it does that.


----------



## motjes2

One question. Why is NBC HD suffer from fast action movement? Are they not providing enough bandwith to the channel? The same does not happen with ABC or CBS. Sorry to ask if it has been answered before.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *That happens to me sometimes: If I have a signal from 51, then there's no signal from 52, and vice-versa. However, I'll be watching, say channel 51-3, and then suddenly it will change to 52-3, then back to 51-3 and so on. The picture does not break up, and it's the exact same programming. I don't understand why it does that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Sounds like the PSIP encoder is resetting, the same issue I'm having with a local station of my own, although your case is different.


The way I understand it, WNJT is the "hub" so to speak. The signal for all three other NJN signals comes from there. WNJT is 52-1, etc. The WNJT signal is sent somehow (possibly microwave) to the WNJN site, and at that location, the PSIP is overwritten with 50-1 or 51-1. The issue is that the WNJN PSIP encoder must have the same issue as my local FOX/WB station, causing it to reset every so often. This causes it to default back to the WNJT PSIP that was there, flipping you to 52-1 from 51-1.


When my local Fox/WB station resets, however, it has no other PSIP to default to, so it kicks me back to the opposite stream (I get Fox on 21-1 and WB on 21-3, there is no 21-2), so if I'm watching X-Files on 21-3, I get kicked to 20-1. Then I change it to 20-3, and the encoder kicks back in and puts me on 21-1. It wouldn't be anywhere near as irritating if it didn't flip me to the other subchannel.


Your best option might be to just be patient, and maybe call in a few weeks and suggest they return it for a different brand of encoder. My FOX station tells me that they've tried about 10 software patches by the manufacturer, and none have helped. If the next patch doesn't fix it, they will be returning it for a different brand of encoder.


Hope that was of some help!


- Trip


----------



## DVW

Last night, 9/9/04 about 9PM, 28-1 was giving me about 88 on the signal strenth meter but just a black screen. Anybody know why?


DVW


----------



## CPanther95

Merged.


----------



## chrisb3

Anyone having trouble with 4.1, 4.2 & 5.2?


I noticed that the NBC subchannels weren't working right this morning.


5.2 has been out since yesterday.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> 
> *Hope that was of some help!
> *


*


That was very helpful. Thanks!*


----------



## gonzo719

Has anyone else experienced really bad reception of primetime shows on fox's digital channel 5-1(New York) - for example - the show "the next great champ" - was breaking up constantly and the audio was out of sync. Then when the local news came on - the signal stopped breaking up. I noticed this happening on Fox primetime shows the last two nights. is anybody experiencing the same thing?


----------



## dturturro

OK, here's an interesting question:


Can you increase your antennae power by having multiple antennas?


What I mean is if you took two antennas, pointed in the same direction and you reverse split them into one lead into a preamp would you increase the signal or would it get washed out by the 3 dB loss that the splitter incurs?


If I remember my Ohms law correctly, parallel current should add, but it seems too easy.


----------



## shappyss

Does anyone have any new info of when WB will go full power or when UPN starts in HD?


----------



## trekkerj

When the combiner is online.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by shappyss_
> *Does anyone have any new info of when WB will go full power or when UPN starts in HD?*


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by shappyss_
> *Does anyone have any new info of when WB will go full power or when UPN starts in HD?*



I just E-mailed WOR and got a reply from a FOX rep saying UPN wouldn't be online for 3 months.


George Thompson makes an interesting point, the stations may go on the combiner one at a time instead of all at once. Hopefully, we can get some reliable service out of NBC in the near future.


----------



## Paperboy2003

While watching FOX OTA the audio was very choppy, going in and out. Anyone else seeing this??


Doug


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *While watching FOX OTA the audio was very choppy, going in and out. Anyone else seeing this??
> 
> 
> Doug*



YES! I thought it was just my antenna. I guess FOX has some fine tuning to do


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *While watching FOX OTA the audio was very choppy, going in and out. Anyone else seeing this??
> 
> 
> Doug*



I noticed this during the 12:00-1:00 pre-game hour.


More importantly: Did anyone else notice that Directv's NYC local channels were gone for about 5-10 minutes at around 3:55-4:00? I was unable to check the analog OTA locals as my antenna is a UHF antenna. Were the OTA channels down as well or just D*'s feeds?


I must've taken 3-4 calls from irate D* Gint fans who were preparing to NOT be able to watch the game because they thought their locals were gone!


----------



## vinnyv07

Oh my...has anyone checked out UPN during the giant game. Its the worst quality picture I have ever seen. Fox must have all the bandwidth for the football game. Man it looks bad....cant wait for the combiner.


----------



## Paperboy2003

During the Giants game it seems as if the audio is fine. It must just be on the National level when they are havings the problems.


----------



## Paperboy2003

And now, at the beginning of the fourth qtr, the picture is now crapping out. I sure wish they had the kinks worked out!!!


Now I have to watch SD...ugh


Doug


----------



## cpto




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Just noticed the thread title change.*



Dunno who changed it, and I started this thread.










I guess the mod is just trying to standardize all the thread names. The only reason for the original thread name was to try and keep the topic focused on broadcast without getting the cable and sat threads all mixed in.


Rick


----------



## bjohn

On my Dish 811 receiver, Fox 5-1 and 5-2 keeps going back to 44-01 and 02.

Very annoying. Anyone else having this problem?


----------



## ragingd

Is anybody getting the wb? I cant seem to get it now. I would recieve it but now i cant seem to get a signal. im in brooklyn about 6 miles from the esb with a direct sight.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *On my Dish 811 receiver, Fox 5-1 and 5-2 keeps going back to 44-01 and 02.
> 
> Very annoying. Anyone else having this problem?*



Same thing is happening on my DISH 811, but you don't really notice it. I get a very slight flicker and that's the only way I notice that it changes from 5-1 and 5-2 to 44-1 and 44-2.


----------



## bjohn




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Same thing is happening on my DISH 811, but you don't really notice it. I get a very slight flicker and that's the only way I notice that it changes from 5-1 and 5-2 to 44-1 and 44-2.*




Well the problem is when you're channel surfing, you end up on 44-1 instead of being on 5-1. Then you have to go back to 7-1


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ragingd_
> *Is anybody getting the wb? I cant seem to get it now. I would recieve it but now i cant seem to get a signal. im in brooklyn about 6 miles from the esb with a direct sight.*



I'm getting it at 76% with no breakup, and I live out in Hempstead, LI. That's odd how so many people post messages where they're having trouble with the WB and its weak signal; it has consistently been one of the stronget channels I've gotten from day 1. NBC-DT on the other hand...............


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *Well the problem is when you're channel surfing, you end up on 44-1 instead of being on 5-1. Then you have to go back to 7-1*



You're right; I'll be channel-surfing, and I'll go up and get channel 51. Eh, I don't think it's the worst thng in the world; Better that than not being able to get the channel at all *cough* NBC-DT *cough*










Is it my imagination or is FOX-DT running _Deuce Bigelow_ in HD?


----------



## ragingd

GRN are you using a amp. to pick up the signal


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ragingd_
> *GRN are you using a amp. to pick up the signal*



No actually................... I have a coax cable running from the antenna into the back of my receiver (DISH 811). Unfortunately, I don't have much information on the antenna because it was already bolted to the side of my chimney when I bought the house, which was almost 5 years ago. It's a regular looking antenna, no bow-tie or anything fancy. I would assume it's probably a Radio Shack job.


With that hook-up alone, I can pick up CBS-DT, ABC-DT, FOX-DT, WB-DT, NJN-DT, and WFUT, along with any available sub-channels. I can't pick up NBC-DT at all (closest I have ever gotten is 49-55%, which my receiver cannot lock onto).


----------



## trekkerj

WB broadcasts with literally enough power to light up a light bulb. Their signal doesn't get very far.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *I'm getting it at 76% with no breakup, and I live out in Hempstead, LI. That's odd how so many people post messages where they're having trouble with the WB and its weak signal; it has consistently been one of the stronget channels I've gotten from day 1. NBC-DT on the other hand...............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## ragingd

the thing is I was recieving every channel fox, wb,abc, cbs and nbc but now all i get is abc and fox. This sucks. I wonder why all this is happeneing now. I got all in the 80's and 90's on the signals. The wb would breakup sometimes but it still came in. But now all I get is these two channels.


----------



## dturturro

Well, CBS is the 1st net moving onto the combiner (according to GT) so they have been spotty. NBC & WB are low power so they are understandably unreliable. But, and I don't mean to sound like Pollyanna, it looks like we might actually have some light at the end of the tunnel for NY-OTA.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *WB broadcasts with literally enough power to light up a light bulb. Their signal doesn't get very far.*



Ironically enough, it's probably the strongest signal I have. CBS, ABC, FOX and UPN are all weaker in comparison; WB regularly hits 76-77% signal strength. Unfortunately, I'm not into any WB shows (save for the occasional episode of _Smallville_ and ballgames). Now if only I could get NBC-DT.


I tell ya, that combiner cannot get up and running fast enough as far as I'm concerned


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ragingd_
> *the thing is I was recieving every channel fox, wb,abc, cbs and nbc but now all i get is abc and fox. This sucks. I wonder why all this is happeneing now. I got all in the 80's and 90's on the signals. The wb would breakup sometimes but it still came in. But now all I get is these two channels.*



It's not the worst thing in the world; you do get to see Sunday football and MNF in HD!










Who's your service provider? Cable or satellite? If by chance you have a satellite dish and have your locals package, you can have your provider give you the CBS-DT signal......


As far as the other channels go, we'll just have to continue to wait patiently for the combiner.....


----------



## gkurcon

Slightly OT, can someone explain to me why WNYW-DT didn't carry the 1:00 game yesterday, either in SD or HD?? It wasn't a big deal since I got to watch the Eagles stomp the Giants at 4:00 but still, they put crap like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on instead? Was this some sort of blackout rules applied?


----------



## trekkerj

They can't show another game against the Jet game.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *They can't show another game against the Jet game.*



Since when, and says whom? There have been games opposite home team games often in the past.


----------



## trekkerj

I remember they changed that rule a while back, but have since put in back in place.


----------



## GRN

Assuming then that the Jets-Bengals game was not the big "A" game yesterday (no Jim Nantz and Phil Simms in the booth), are we to assume that unless the A-game is being shown on CBS, then we won't get to see the game in HD? Because the Jets-Bengals game yesterday was most definitely *not* in HD.


----------



## trekkerj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Assuming then that the Jets-Bengals game was not the big "A" game yesterday (no Jim Nantz and Phil Simms in the booth), are we to assume that unless the A-game is being shown on CBS, then we won't get to see the game in HD? Because the Jets-Bengals game yesterday was most definitely not in HD.*


 http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> * http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl *



Thanks for the link!


I'm assuming (hoping) that the only reason none of the games after October 3rd are listed as HD is because CBS hasn't yet decided which games to broadcast in HD yet.............


----------



## Infominister

So, how come HDTV availability for certain games is only indicated through Sept. 26?


----------



## trekkerj

That's as far ahead as CBS has planned so far. They don't know which games they will be doing in HD past that date yet.


----------



## NS324

The NFL blackout rules state that if a local team is playing in town, another game cannot be shown at the same time. If the local team is away, then it is possible to have another game on at the same time.


Had CBS had the double header yesterday, then we would have gotten an additional game in the 4:00 slot, opposite the Giants. (Of course, due to the tennis, there were no 4:00 CBS games yesterday.)


----------



## trekkerj

Thanks for the clarification. Those blackout rules are complicated.


----------



## NS324

It used to be even worse - if the local team was in town, then you couldn't see a double header on the network that had the double header that week. It meant only 2 games that Sunday, one from the network that carried the NFC & one from the network that carried the AFC.


Thankfully, the rule was relaxed a little bit a few years back and now, sometimes, we get three games.


----------



## trekkerj

So why don't we get a FOX game next weekend during the Jet game at 4:00?


----------



## NS324

As luck would have it, next week is a CBS double header and the Giants are in town. The Giants are playing at 1:00, so the 1:00 CBS game is not available to us. It's really frustrating - the week the Jets are in town, it is a FOX double header, the week the Giants are in town, it is a CBS double header.


----------



## PDPnNJ

The next 2 doubleheaders are:


Week4, we should be getting New England at Buffalo 1:00pm (CBS) and

NY Giants at Green Bay 1:00pm (FOX)


then

NY Jets at Miami 4:00pm (CBS).


Week 8, we should be getting NY Giants at Minnesota 1:00pm (FOX) and

Baltimore at Philadelphia 1:00pm (CBS)


then

New England at Pittsburgh 4:00pm (CBS)


----------



## slocko

So i guess I better get that rooftop antenna now to get upn out of philly if I want to watch Star Trek in HD comes October?


----------



## dan57

Please make it simple for a dolt like me...... Next Sunday, which of the Giants and/or Jets games will be broadcast HD and available OTA in the NYC Metro area?


----------



## trekkerj

The Redskins-Giants on FOX at 1pm will be HD on WNYW-DT. The Jet game will not be in HD.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *In another vein, the infamous combiner is in place and in the process of having its plumbing connected to the various transmitters.*



Mr. Thompson- Please double check your source of this information. My source (who is in a position to know what is going on) says the combiner is still in storage in Maine.


----------



## Gary Quiring

What's going on with NBC (4-1). No center audio at all tonight. Anyone else?


----------



## CynKennard

Las Vegas at 9 pm had very good video and excellent 5.1 channel sound. I looked forward to LAX, but it was unlistenable with no dialog. I think someone forgot to change to 5.1 channel sound. The 3-channel sound indicated left out the center.


Cynthia


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by CynKennard_
> *Las Vegas at 9 pm had very good video and excellent 5.1 channel sound. I looked forward to LAX, but it was unlistenable with no dialog. I think someone forgot to change to 5.1 channel sound. The 3-channel sound indicated left out the center.
> 
> Cynthia*



. . . and left and right front.


----------



## Bill Broderick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by NS324_
> *As luck would have it, next week is a CBS double header and the Giants are in town. The Giants are playing at 1:00, so the 1:00 CBS game is not available to us. It's really frustrating - the week the Jets are in town, it is a FOX double header, the week the Giants are in town, it is a CBS double header.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



This is why NFL Sunday Ticket is such a wonderful thing for people living in the NY market (who can receive D*).


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *Mr. Thompson- Please double check your source of this information. My source (who is in a position to know what is going on) says the combiner is still in storage in Maine.*



I hope George is right...but does anyone have any more info on this? Is the combiner being hooked up as we speak or is it still in storage?


----------



## Infominister

I've been told by engineering contacts at a couple of the stations that it is actually being installed now. However, not all the stations will "combine" at the same time. For example, I heard from an engineer at WNET (PBS) that they probably won't go on the combiner until early next year.


Anyway, I don't know what Bogney Baux's talking about as far as the combiner still being in Maine.


----------



## pmalve

I was searching channels last night and got WNBC. It must have been the weather as I never received it before. I am 78 miles from NYC in Litchfield county CT. I can usually get WNYW, and WWOR. WCBS is tougher. WABC is good now that they upped their power. Will WCBS boost their power when they go on the combiner or are they already at full power on their other antenna? Hope they boost it some so it is more reliable. Don't think I will ever get WPIX as the idiots at the FCC assigned them the same channel (33) that our Hartford CBS station is on. Why would they put the same channel in 2 side by side DMA's?


----------



## trekkerj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I've been told by engineering contacts at a couple of the stations that it is actually being installed now. However, not all the stations will "combine" at the same time. For example, I heard from an engineer at WNET (PBS) that they probably won't go on the combiner until early next year.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I don't know what Bogney Baux's talking about as far as the combiner still being in Maine.*




Any updates on time frame? And as for specific stations, any word on WWOR or WPIX? Those are the two I'm most interested in (especially WWOR for Enterprise).


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Any updates on time frame? And as for specific stations, any word on WWOR or WPIX? Those are the two I'm most interested in (especially WWOR for Enterprise).*



I just E-mailed WOR and got a reply from a FOX rep saying UPN wouldn't be online for 3 months.


----------



## Infominister

I haven't spoken to anyone at those two stations for a long time, but I recall that WPIX was very eager to get on the air with a strong signal. Remember that they were one of the first to rig up temporary digital transmission on VHF Channel 12. Other than them, my impression was that WNBC was most eager to get on the combiner since they were the only major network affiliate without a fairly strong signal.

Personally, now that I have WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT, and WABC-DT pretty reliably over-the-air, and WNBC coming in a few days on DirecTV, the digital station I've been pining for most is WNET. Guess they're pulling up the rear, though.


----------



## console




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *
> 
> Personally, now that I have WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT, and WABC-DT pretty reliably over-the-air, and WNBC coming in a few days on DirecTV, the digital station I've been pining for most is WNET. Guess they're pulling up the rear, though.*



I am in total empathy. The one station I truly want (PBS/13) remains unavailable to us DirecTV people with great, rotating (but WNET impotent) roof antennas on LI.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I haven't spoken to anyone at those two stations for a long time, but I recall that WPIX was very eager to get on the air with a strong signal. Remember that they were one of the first to rig up a temporary digital transmission on VHF Channel 12. Other than them, my impression was that WNBC was most eager to get on the combiner since they were the only major network affiliate without a fairly strong signal.
> 
> Personally, now that I have WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT, and WABC-DT pretty reliably over-the-air, and WNBC coming in a few days on DirecTV, the digital station I've been pining for most is WNET. Guess they're pulling up the rear, though.*



WPIX, who has the weakest signal really needs to get on the combiner as one of the first stations. I certainly hope they let the stations with the weakest signals like WPIX come on first.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I've been told by engineering contacts at a couple of the stations that it is actually being installed now. However, not all the stations will "combine" at the same time. For example, I heard from an engineer at WNET (PBS) that they probably won't go on the combiner until early next year.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I don't know what Bogney Baux's talking about as far as the combiner still being in Maine.*



Thanks S2silber .... Its good to have some positive info on the combiner for once. But Im in the same boat as you not being able to get WNET and NBC going on the Directv on the 16th. I still would like to get WPIX and WNET ...and also WOR when they come on. But if the combiner is installed its a huge step in the right direction.....Im looking foward to it.


----------



## trekkerj

I get WNET-DT via Cablevision. Smart Travels is a nice program in HD, but other than that, you're not missing much. You'll tire of it after a short period of time.


----------



## slocko

dang, so not in time for Enterprise. now i have to decide if it's worth the money putting up a roof top antenna to try and get philly.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I just E-mailed WOR and got a reply from a FOX rep saying UPN wouldn't be online for 3 months.*


----------



## console




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I get WNET-DT via Cablevision. Smart Travels is a nice program in HD, but other than that, you're not missing much. You'll tire of it after a short period of time.*



"...not missing much"? ... what about NOVA? Frontline?


----------



## trekkerj

I've never seen Nova or Frontline on WNET-HD. I think they are only on regular channel 13.


Soundstage is nice though.


----------



## Infominister

Frontline...Nova....American Experience....programs definitely worth having and worth having in HD.


----------



## ragingd

Can someone tell me what channels they are receiving now? Because I'm trying to figure out if it is my antenna because I'm only receiving channels 5 and 7. Anybody in Brooklyn receiving all the channels. Thanks for any response.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

I am in Brooklyn... East Flatbush and before that I was in Sunset park.


I can receive all but WPIX and WNET. I am currently using a squareshooter but I could receive them indoors with the Rat Shack Double bowtie and channel master 7777 preamp in both locations (that's what I used before I got the square shooter).


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Frontline...Nova....American Experience....programs definitely worth having and worth having in HD.*



Unfortunately, PQ on WNET-DT is awful due to multicasting. And their audio on Soundstage is DD 2.0 last I checked. Also disappointing.


----------



## Yung

Does anyone know what happen to WNBC-DT 4-1 and its subchannel 4-2 this afternoon. I reran the autoprogram on my tv today and it shows no signal on these two channels. However, I noticed that WNBC-DT shows up on 28-2.


----------



## s236

Yung, Just checked and the samething as you here in Jersey.


Tony


----------



## Morg111

Why is WCBS 2-1 almost never up. Its not an antenna issue because I don't get it on Directv 80 either? Oh, and I'm not getting WNBC 4-1 either right now.


Marc


----------



## Infominister

I thinks it's an exaggeration to say WCBS 2-1 is "almost never up." They have been taking it down after midnight for work on the transmitter which, in turn, knocks out Channel 80, which originates from Channel 56 (2-1). Maybe they've taken it down on other occasions, too, but it's certainly "up" the majority of the time.


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I thinks it's an exaggeration to say WCBS 2-1 is "almost never up." They have been taking it down after midnight for work on the transmitter which, in turn, knocks out Channel 80, which originates from Channel 56 (2-1). Maybe they've taken it down on other occasions, too, but it's certainly "up" the majority of the time.*




Agreed... I haven't had any problems watching/Tivo-ing any of my primetime recordings.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I've been told by engineering contacts at a couple of the stations that it is actually being installed now. However, not all the stations will "combine" at the same time. For example, I heard from an engineer at WNET (PBS) that they probably won't go on the combiner until early next year.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I don't know what Bogney Baux's talking about as far as the combiner still being in Maine.*



I have just been given permission to post the following by the Project Manager of the combiner installation. There is always the possibility of more delays so the time frames could change.


1. The combiner is in storage in Maine.

2. Tentative delivery to NYC is about one month from now.

3. Installation would take about another month.

4. All the stations have to be hooked up at the same time for technical reasons.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> II have just been given permission to post the following by the Project Manager of the combiner installation. There is always the possibility of more delays so the time frames could change.
> 
> 
> 1. The combiner is in storage in Maine.
> 
> 2. Tentative delivery to NYC is about one month from now.
> 
> 3. Installation would take about another month.
> 
> 4. All the stations have to be hooked up at the same time for technical reasons.



I really hope this is true! By the way WNBC-DT is back on for me!


Tony


----------



## trekkerj

Ok, so which of you is right?


----------



## Yung

WNBC-DT on 4-1 and WNBC-SD on 4-2 came back for me as well. My tv tuner also picked up 4-3 which it assigned a label of WNBC3. Just a black screen on that channel though.


----------



## Bogney Baux

I was also given permission to post a picture of the combiner.


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> I have just been given permission to post the following by the Project Manager of the combiner installation. There is always the possibility of more delays so the time frames could change.
> 
> 1. The combiner is in storage in Maine.
> 
> 2. Tentative delivery to NYC is about one month from now.
> 
> 3. Installation would take about another month.
> 
> 4. All the stations have to be hooked up at the same time for technical reasons.



Does this mean UPN 9 won't be up in HD before the beginning of the new season?



M.


----------



## dturturro

No chance, M!


----------



## George Thompson

Bogney Baux,

I guess if I had talked to Steve (the guy in the pix) in the first place he would have told me the same thing. This is what I get for listening to info from retirees returning as consultants..... sorry.

Yeah, he is in a position to know.

George

(As Tony would say, "Theirrrrrrrr, GRRRRRRate!" LOL)


----------



## dturturro

Just did a rescan after reading some of the earlier posts and I noticed that NBC-DT was only broadcasting on 4-1, WPIX-DT dropped 12-1 and I'm picking up 23-1, 31-1, 53-1 & 58-


Are we having some tropo today?


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> I was also given permission to post a picture of the combiner.




Looks like it should be installed in a church.


M.


----------



## djcutty

hi all,


Just found this thread...Can anyone recommend a good HD attenna? I live in Oyster Bay Long Island. (I have the hi def tivo box receiver) .I'm sorry if this has been discussed already.


Rob


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> hi all,
> 
> Just found this thread...Can anyone recommend a good HD attenna? I live in Oyster Bay Long Island. (I have the hi def tivo box receiver) .I'm sorry if this has been discussed already.
> 
> 
> Rob



Rob,


Your going to want a medium sized directional antenna. Your about 25 to 30 miles out at most from the city. I recommend getting a Winegard HD7078p for VHF/UHF/FM or for just HD (UHF) HD9085p. Thats assuming you can put it on the roof.


Marc


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I was also given permission to post a picture of the combiner.*




It's going to be a b*tch fitting that thing into an express elevator!


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I was also given permission to post a picture of the combiner.*



So that's what happened to the monkey bars I used to play on as a kid!!


----------



## vinnyv07

So from what is being said I feel we should have the combiner up and running by Jan 2005? Is that to optimistic?


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *So from what is being said I feel we should have the combiner up and running by Jan 2005? Is that to optimistic?*



If past history is any indicator, yes, you are too optimistic....but we can hope!


----------



## mad6c

I need some help. I have the HD TiVo and have had a lot of trouble pulling in the digital stations from Manhattan with any reliability. I live in Weekhakewn, NJ (07093) on the Hudson (approx across from 60th st in the city) in an apartment. My windows face south so i have line of sight of both the empire state build and ABC's antenna. I have tried the silver senor, RS double bow tie and a $12 cheap antenna from Bestbuy. CBS used to be the best for me almost no trouble what so ever. Now I lucky if I even get a picture from CBS. Any thoughts. I can't imagine the signal is too weak I am less than 3 miles from both transmitters. Could Multi path just be too strong?


Can someone suggest the best model of antenna to try. Are there filters that help with multi-path?


Mike


PS - Really only care about CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC.


----------



## dturturro

mad, you've already got CBS & NBC via D*. FOX is coming and I'm sure ABC will eventually follow suit.


----------



## mad6c

Yes, but the OTA channels look significantly better.


Mike


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mad6c_
> *Yes, but the OTA channels look significantly better.
> 
> 
> Mike*



Thats why I will never take down my OTA Ant...I dont care what Directv gives me. It just wont look as good as OTA...I totally agree.


----------



## seaford

Fox says the Giants game is in HD but my receiver and my eyes think otherwise. I thought they were going to be ready....


----------



## dhale

I agree, it looks like an upconvert to me. Compared to the NFLST HD stations, something is lacking. Don't see the 3D effect.


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> I need some help. I have the HD TiVo and have had a lot of trouble pulling in the digital stations from Manhattan with any reliability. I live in Weekhakewn, NJ (07093) on the Hudson (approx across from 60th st in the city) in an apartment. My windows face south so i have line of sight of both the empire state build and ABC's antenna. I have tried the silver senor, RS double bow tie and a $12 cheap antenna from Bestbuy. CBS used to be the best for me almost no trouble what so ever. Now I lucky if I even get a picture from CBS. Any thoughts. I can't imagine the signal is too weak I am less than 3 miles from both transmitters. Could Multi path just be too strong?



Mike,


I live in Hoboken with a view of the Empire State Building. I don't know if you have roof access to use an outdoor antenna, but I use a winegard HD 7210p outside. It works flawlessly. It is perfect for our distance and level of building structures that could bounce signals. The link is below....

http://www.winegard.com/offair/platinum.htm#7210 


Hope that helps,


Marc


----------



## trekkerj

Looks like good HD to me.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dhale_
> *I agree, it looks like an upconvert to me. Compared to the NFLST HD stations, something is lacking. Don't see the 3D effect.*


----------



## mad6c




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *Mike,
> 
> 
> I live in Hoboken with a view of the Empire State Building. I don't know if you have roof access to use an outdoor antenna, but I use a winegard HD 7210p outside. It works flawlessly. It is perfect for our distance and level of building structures that could bounce signals. The link is below....
> 
> http://www.winegard.com/offair/platinum.htm#7210
> 
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> 
> Marc*



Thanks Marc,


Unfortunately I do not have roof access. I was looking for an indoor antenna that would work well in my situation. I am in an apartment building on the fourth floor.


Mike


----------



## HDntheCity

hi mad6c


try the Zenith Silver Sensor. available at Amazon.com. its the ONLY indoor that works for me & i've tried 3 others.


jim


----------



## netman

You missed his post where he already tried a silver sensor.


----------



## HDntheCity

OOOPS!!!! i sure did! sorry mad6c!! tho i am surprised you had no luck with a Silver Sensor. i've heard the higher up you are the better they work. hope you find one that does.


jim


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mad6c_
> *I need some help. I have the HD TiVo and have had a lot of trouble pulling in the digital stations from Manhattan with any reliability. I live in Weekhakewn, NJ (07093) on the Hudson (approx across from 60th st in the city) in an apartment. My windows face south so i have line of sight of both the empire state build and ABC's antenna. I have tried the silver senor, RS double bow tie and a $12 cheap antenna from Bestbuy. CBS used to be the best for me almost no trouble what so ever. Now I lucky if I even get a picture from CBS. Any thoughts. I can't imagine the signal is too weak I am less than 3 miles from both transmitters. Could Multi path just be too strong?
> 
> 
> Can someone suggest the best model of antenna to try. Are there filters that help with multi-path?
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> PS - Really only care about CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC.*



What's the layout of your apartment like? You could try the Winegard SquareShooter antenna, perhaps mounting it in a closet. Adding an attenuator to the line might be necessary to attempt to reduce any multipath signals below the threshold of your receiver; aiming it off-center might help, too, so test mounting it somewhere that would let you adjust its aiming direction would be a good idea. The SquareShooter is about 16" square, 4" deep.


----------



## mad6c




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *What's the layout of your apartment like? You could try the Winegard SquareShooter antenna, perhaps mounting it in a closet. Adding an attenuator to the line might be necessary to attempt to reduce any multipath signals below the threshold of your receiver; aiming it off-center might help, too, so test mounting it somewhere that would let you adjust its aiming direction would be a good idea. The SquareShooter is about 16" square, 4" deep.*



Thanks for the suggestion Doug,


The apartment has south facing windows. I am almost directly across from the Empire State Building, about 10 o'clock if you are looking out of the window. I am on the Hudson so no tall buildings just water between me and all the transmitters. Do you know a place that would carry the squareshooter? Preferably someplace that I can return it if it doesn't work out. I can place it on top a a book self facing the windows. I can also try it in a closet but i think it would be better on the book self. The signal would have to travel through multiple walls if I mounted it in the closet. What do you think?


Mike


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mad6c_
> *Thanks for the suggestion Doug,
> 
> 
> The apartment has south facing windows. I am almost directly across from the Empire State Building, about 10 o'clock if you are looking out of the window. I am on the Hudson so no tall buildings just water between me and all the transmitters. Do you know a place that would carry the squareshooter? Preferably someplace that I can return it if it doesn't work out. I can place it on top a a book self facing the windows. I can also try it in a closet but i think it would be better on the book self. The signal would have to travel through multiple walls if I mounted it in the closet. What do you think?*



The fewer walls, the better. I got one just to play with (I have a 4228 in my attic). It worked fine except for WB11 on VHF 12 (it's barely comes in OK using the 4228 so I expected this), needing no amplifier, for me at 30 miles from the transmitters. I tried it in the attic, too, but at the moment it's mounted outside under the eaves, though I'm still using the 4228. I was planning to try the SquareShooter again once the combiner is active in NYC.


Value Electronics ( www.********************* ) sells it. Call them and talk to Robert Zohn (the owner) and tell him what you need to try; they're in Scarsdale. I'm sure he'll work with you on return privileges. Their normal policy is a 20% restocking fee on opened items.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Looks like good HD to me.*



It looks like HD to me as well, though not as good as some of the other channels. I think they are using too much compression on the signal. I've seen some of the FOX pre-season football games that were upconverted in their 'High Resolution Widescreen' 480p format, and they definitely did not look as good. Besides, they actually show a 'High Definition' logo during the broadcast, so it is definitely HD.


----------



## trekkerj

I didn't say it looks like HD, i said it looks like GOOD HD to me. Obviously it's HD, but you're right about the compression. A Fox engineer in another thread said they are not giving each feed a whole lot of bandwidth for now, but it should increase. Still looks pretty good to me, but they still mix in too many non-HD cameras. The HD skycam was pretty cool.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Ok, so which of you is right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



(i.e., About where the combiner is, what's going on with it, when it will be ready and whether all stations have to go live at the same time.)


Well, we're actually both right. Just spoke again with a WNBC engineering contact. Yes, the combiner, itself, that monkey-bar like contraption in Bodney's post, is sitting in Maine right now. However, all the piping and other preparation work at Empire for its installation is currently going on, as hooking up the combiner after all that is the easy part. Bogney's timetable seems to be correct, as well: around mid-November.


As for all the stations needing to go live at the same time....that doesn't seem to be the case. I don't think you're going to see WNET-DT broadcasting from the combiner untill well after the other five stations go on the air from there.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I don't think you're going to see WNET-DT broadcasting from the combiner untill well after the other five stations go on the air from there.*



Why not?


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *It's going to be a b*tch fitting that thing into an express elevator!*



That's what I was wondering. Is it disassembeled and brought up in some kind of freight elevator, or is it airlifted in?


----------



## Infominister

They'll probably air drop it by helicopter or have King Kong climb up with it.









As for why WNET-DT won't go live at the same time...it's financial and other issues on their part. I was told it would probably be sometime early next year.


----------



## Robert Packman

has anybody noticed NBC-4 in NYC has been worse then normal of late???


----------



## bgut1




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *As for why WNET-DT won't go live at the same time...it's financial and other issues on their part. I was told it would probably be sometime early next year.*



Can you find out from your contact why WLIW-DT dropped HD programming earlier this year? Was it for "financial" reasons too?


----------



## trekkerj

What about the rest of the stations currently not broadcasting at full power or not at all in HD, like WWOR and WPIX?


> Quote:
> As for why WNET-DT won't go live at the same time...it's financial and other issues on their part. I was told it would probably be sometime early next year. [/b]


----------



## seaford

I took a look up at the ESB on my way home today and saw a whole bunch of stuff at the top near the S/E corner (33rd & 5th.) I was in a hurry and had a bad angle by the time I saw it. It could have been scaffolding but it did look something like the famous combiner.jpg. Is it wishful thinking or could something be happening? I will not be working in the city again until later in the week, so if anyone else has a look up there, please post and let me know if my eyes are ready for lasik.


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *As for why WNET-DT won't go live at the same time...it's financial and other issues on their part. I was told it would probably be sometime early next year.*



I smell another fund raising telethon coming up......


"Many people go without High Definition television every day. Just think, by contributing as little as $3 dollars a day we can give these important people the increased picture quality that they need and deserve. Please give, your help and contributions go a long way...."


----------



## Yung

WWOR-DT 5-2 is coming in horribly for me. My signal strength is decent, varying from 76 to 81 however the image the past few days has been very pixelated. Has anyone else experienced this? The season premier of Enterprise is a few weeks away and I hope the pixelization issue gets remedied quickly.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Yung_
> *WWOR-DT 5-2 is coming in horribly for me. My signal strength is decent, varying from 76 to 81 however the image the past few days has been very pixelated. Has anyone else experienced this? The season premier of Enterprise is a few weeks away and I hope the pixelization issue gets remedied quickly.*



Yes, PQ is bad on 5-2 right now.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Yes, PQ is bad on 5-2 right now.*



That's because 5-1 is broadcasting in HD for FOX's prime time shows.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *I smell another fund raising telethon coming up......
> 
> 
> "Many people go without High Definition television every day. Just think, by contributing as little as $3 dollars a day we can give these important people the increased picture quality that they need and deserve. Please give, your help and contributions go a long way...."*



I'd be happy to contribute for that! Of course they'll have to move to the combiner before I could receive it







What comes first, the combiner or the egg?!


----------



## Yung

I noticed the sound on WCBS-DT 2-1 on my sony 34xbr960 was significantly louder than my other channels (both analog and digital). I was just wondering if other people are experiencing louder sound on WCBS-DT?


----------



## CynKennard

Yung,


WCBS-DT is always louder than the other stations; about 6 to 8 db I would say. I wish all the stations would settle on a common average volume.


Cynthia


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

Is WNBC's sub-channel gone? I'm not picking it up right now.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Yung_
> *WWOR-DT 5-2 is coming in horribly for me. My signal strength is decent, varying from 76 to 81 however the image the past few days has been very pixelated. Has anyone else experienced this? The season premier of Enterprise is a few weeks away and I hope the pixelization issue gets remedied quickly.*



Over the past year or so 5-2 is hit or miss. I do not even bother anymore, it is not HD.


----------



## Ed Barclay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *
> 
> Well, we're actually both right. Just spoke again with a WNBC engineering contact. Yes, the combiner, itself, that monkey-bar like contraption in Bodney's post, is sitting in Maine right now. However, all the piping and other preparation work at Empire for its installation is currently going on, as hooking up the combiner after all that is the easy part.*



When it was politely suggested to check the status you said "Anyway, I don't know what Bogney Baux's talking about as far as the combiner still being in Maine." Now that it comes out that he was correct, you say you were also right because they were preparing Empire for it. At least George admitted he was wrong.


----------



## Infominister

Yes, I was wrong about the combiner's present location in Maine -- guilty as charged. Having been told that the combiner was ready and that installation was going on, I had mis-understood that statement as meaning that the device itself was actually being hooked up, rather than that preparations were ongoing for its installation even while the unit itself resided elsewhere. My apologies for this, and for mispelling his ID, to Bogney Baux.


----------



## vinnyv07

One thing is for sure...Im just glad there is progress. Just want progress. I see the light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## mad6c




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *The fewer walls, the better. I got one just to play with (I have a 4228 in my attic). It worked fine except for WB11 on VHF 12 (it's barely comes in OK using the 4228 so I expected this), needing no amplifier, for me at 30 miles from the transmitters. I tried it in the attic, too, but at the moment it's mounted outside under the eaves, though I'm still using the 4228. I was planning to try the SquareShooter again once the combiner is active in NYC.
> 
> 
> Value Electronics ( www.********************* ) sells it. Call them and talk to Robert Zohn (the owner) and tell him what you need to try; they're in Scarsdale. I'm sure he'll work with you on return privileges. Their normal policy is a 20% restocking fee on opened items.*



Doug,


I'll look around and see if I can find the square-shooter at a local store. You also mentioned an attenuator. Would this be something I can pick up at Radio Shack? Can you suggest a model? Are they expensive? I also purchased a the terk antenna advertised in bestbuy's ad this week. Looks like the silver sensor but it also has two dipoles to pick up vhf signals. The UHF element is removable so you can rotate it vertical. Funny thing is it seems to work just as well without the UHF element. Could it be that the signal i'm receiving is just too powerful and over powering the receiver. At this point i'm willing to try anything. Thanks.


Mike


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *One thing is for sure...Im just glad there is progress. Just want progress. I see the light at the end of the tunnel.*



I can see it already....


"Due to the heavy snow storms blanketing Eastern Canada and Maine, we're unable to transport the combiner from Maine and the project is on hold until the Spring thaw..."


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *One thing is for sure...Im just glad there is progress. Just want progress. I see the light at the end of the tunnel.*



Are you sure that isn't the 4:53 express to Poughkeepsee?

GT


----------



## bjohn

I find it very strange at times there won't be any postings on this thread for a number of days in a row, and then all of a sudden you get a barrage of postings.


OK. I just had to post something 


So where's the combiner?


----------



## sting0r

In Maine.


----------



## vinnyv07

Hey guys....Im bored so Im going to ask this question. Anyone in NY (Im from Staten Island) pulling in any OTA from Phil? I would like to try and pull in Fox for another football game but Im like 70 miles away and I wanted to see if anyone has had any success from my area or any other area in NY. I once got CBS from Phil but it was strong enough for a picture that was steady. I want to try again but am unsure if I should...I would sure like to get more football going in my house.


----------



## netman

You will need a good antenna as high up as you can get it, a preamp right at the antenna, a rotor and a little luck and you might be able to do this. It will also help if you are not in the shadow of Todt hill or Grymes hill from the point of view of Philly. It will REALLY help if you are ON Todt hill!


----------



## trekkerj

Or, if you really wanted more HD football, go for sunday ticket and get all the HD games.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *You will need a good antenna as high up as you can get it, a preamp right at the antenna, a rotor and a little luck and you might be able to do this. It will also help if you are not in the shadow of Todt hill or Grymes hill from the point of view of Philly. It will REALLY help if you are ON Todt hill!*



Im not in the shadow of Toad Hill or Grymes Hill...Im on the side facing Philly closest to NJ. Im going to give it a shot ...just need to take off rom work to do it.

Yes i could sub to THE SUNDAY TICKET but thats not as fun!!!


----------



## trekkerj

Also not as cheap.







Good luck.


----------



## Richard Smith

I live on the North Shore near St. Vincents Hospital. I have a small corner Yagi (Antennas Direct) with a CM 778 amp on a 15 foot mast (ground mounted). I DO NOT have line of sight on the ESB because there is a wooded obstructing rise less the 1/4 mile away.


Even so I pick up all the OTA channels with the exception of WNET with a strength of 8 to 10 on my Samsung box.


I also have a Silver Sensor which will receive all channels including WNET but positioning and lead length is very critical.


For what it's worth: FM reception via the Yagi and a splitter is excellent not so with the SS


----------



## Yung

I hate to be a total newbie, but what exactly does adding a pre-amplifer to your rooftop antenna do?


I asked the guy who ran some RG6 cable from my existing rooftop antenna if I needed an amp or pre-amplifier and he said no. He told me I would only need an amplifier if I was splitting the signal up alot. I have my rooftop antenna connected to 3 tvs in my house and he said it was not needed. He also added that if there were any signal problems, that adding a pre-amp would only amplify the problem and make reception even worse.


----------



## netman

If you have good signal levels where you live and a short coax run you may not need a preamplifier. The reason you may need one is a bit technical and has to do with the "noise figure" of your installation. Any receiving device has a specification called noise figure. It dictates how weak of a signal the device can turn into something usable. The loss of the coax from the antenna to the device adds to this noise figure and effectively lessens what you can pick up. By putting the preamp on the roof you not only remove the coax loss from the equation but you also hope to have a preamp with a better noise figure than the receiving device. When you are dealing with weak signals a mast preamp can make a big difference. If all your signals are strong it may actually cause problems.


Most pre-amps can give enough extra signal to help compensate for splitting the signal down the line so they can help feed multiple TVs in that case.



As for:


He also added that if there were any signal problems, that adding a pre-amp would only amplify the problem and make reception even worse



This is simplistic and often incorrect. It depend on what the signal problems are.



For your location I would tend to agree with his assessment as long as you start with a good antenna.


----------



## Yung

Thanks netman. I don't know what type of antenna I have on the roof, the guy told me that it is a Channel Master that is probably about 25 years old. The antenna installation guy said he uses a similar CM antenna that I believe is now discontinued but pretty similar to the current CM 3016, but without the split boom.


----------



## jschramm

Yesterday I installed a new HD antenna and I started having a problem with Fox HD OTA. With all other OTA channels my receiver would pick them up right away, but when I would go to Fox it would tell me it was Searching for Signal and then eventually find it. The weird thing is that once it found a signal it gave me a really high signal strength, over 90. Anyone have an idea why this might be happening? Thanks.


----------



## BillNBC

Latest advisory, Mid-late November to light up ESB HD combiner-antenna.


----------



## trekkerj

Thanks for the update. Sounds about inline what others have said as well. Hopefully, it's for real this time. It was supposed to be LAST november.







Better late than never.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jschramm_
> *The weird thing is that once it found a signal it gave me a really high signal strength, over 90. Anyone have an idea why this might be happening? Thanks.*



Your receiver doesn't give a measure linearly related to signal level. It's a signal quality sampling of some sort. When it's calculating that number, it's looking at how much error correction must be performed to decode the signal being received; you could have a very weak signal (by signal level) and still get a high number if the receiver is able to decode it well enough it is using very little of the extra data to recover from errors.


----------



## scottte

Is the ESB combiner going to provide a greater signal than we are getting right now from CBS and FOX??? I am sure it will help the other stations, but just curious if there will be any gain from the 2 stations already on the ESB, thanks.


scottte


----------



## Infominister

So am I. Right now, my strongest and steadiest signal is from WABC-DT Channel 45. They're coming off the Conde Nast Building and since they did an upgrade of the transmitter about a month ago, the signal's been great even up in distant parts like mine.


----------



## spankle

NEED HELP!


Can I get a recommendation of a UHF/VHf attic antenna for rec'ving HD signals about 30 miles out? I have no clue and I need advice!!!!!


thanks.


----------



## sting0r

Cablevision just got ABC today, so the only thing I am missing now is WB-11. I bet they will get that one before the mythical "combiner" comes on-line. Isn't irony great!


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> *NEED HELP!
> 
> 
> Can I get a recommendation of a UHF/VHf attic antenna for rec'ving HD signals about 30 miles out? I have no clue and I need advice!!!!!
> 
> 
> thanks.*



I'm about 30 miles out and I have a mid sized antenna (RCA3036) with a CM 7777 preamp on my roof. I don't know how well it'd work inside the attic, though.


----------



## dswallow

I'm also about 30 miles out from NYC, with a Channel Master 4228 and Channel Master 7777 preamp, but they're in my attic. I get all the NYC stations, even 11-1, though sometimes it breaks up pretty frequently.


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by scottte_
> *Is the ESB combiner going to provide a greater signal than we are getting right now from CBS and FOX??? I am sure it will help the other stations, but just curious if there will be any gain from the 2 stations already on the ESB, thanks.
> 
> 
> scottte*




Scottte, CBS has been on the antenna since it went up. No extra gain there.

GT


----------



## spankle

Dound and dturturro - Thank you!


I'm looking at your antenna's now and deciding if they seem good for my application. I see you both are using a CM preamp. Is that necessary? Should I conclude that it's a must buy? I know even less about preamp stuff than antenna's. I'm such a newbie.


Doug.. I'm shocked you can pull in 11 (WB) since it's listed as a VHF station, even if it is choppy at times. I'm happy though.


Let me know if I need something else.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> *Dound and dturturro - Thank you!
> 
> 
> I'm looking at your antenna's now and deciding if they seem good for my application. I see you both are using a CM preamp. Is that necessary? Should I conclude that it's a must buy? I know even less about preamp stuff than antenna's. I'm such a newbie.
> 
> 
> Doug.. I'm shocked you can pull in 11 (WB) since it's listed as a VHF station, even if it is choppy at times. I'm happy though.
> 
> 
> Let me know if I need something else.*



The CM4228 has decent reception of the high VHF channels and 11-1 is on VHF12. That's why I have the CM7777 preamp (VHF/UHF) instead of the CM7775 (identical, but UHF only).


The funny/sad thing about 11-1 is that all summer it barely ever broke up so often it was unwatchable, but once the fall season began, it's pretty much regularly unreliable so I have to record both 11-1 and 11 to make sure I can watch programs from it. Hopefully we really are less than 60 days till the combiner starts going online, and that should take care of 11-1 for good.


I also have a Winegard SquareShooter installed outside, under the eaves of my house. With it I can pick up everything but 11-1 from NYC, with or without a preamp. Actually on the 4228 I can remove the preamp and only lose 11-1, but I need the preamp for Philadelphia stations (though I haven't looked at those since early this year).


I'd bet that unless you've got more than 100 feet of coax between the antenna and the receiver, the preamp wouldn't really be needed in your situation, but unless you're within a couple miles of a strong VHF or UHF transmitter, it shouldn't overload anything and cause problems, either. I'd err on the side of just getting it so you have it when you install everything and can do it all at once. You can always remove it if you deicded it wasn't needed.


BTW, I got all my antenna equipment from www.warrenelectronics.com .


----------



## Infominister

I now have both a distribution amp' and a pre-amp with my CM 4228. Does having an amp' nullify the pre-amp? The signal runs through the pre-amp first.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I now have both a distribution amp' and a pre-amp with my CM 4228. Does having an amp' nullify the pre-amp? The signal runs through the pre-amp first.*



The preamp is the important step -- amplifying the signal at the antenna where it's strongest; then as the signal travels over the coax, there's a slight loss and noise gain per foot, and through any connections. At the distribution amp, you're now amplifying the signal that reaches it, adding more noise but also increasing signal levels, typically to cover losses through splitting or longer cable runs.


Unless you're splitting the signal a lot or running pretty lengthy cabling, the distribution amp probably does more harm than good.


Neither amplifier can improve a signal that isn't there -- meaning if you put a TV right up at the antenna and can't get a signal, an amplifier is very unlikely to help you get one; it's just taking a decent enough signal at the antenna and amplifying it to account for further losses in your distribution chain.


----------



## netman

I would add that while Doug is 30 miles from the transmitters there is a lot of water involved in that 30 miles. There are a number of factors that go into this including terrain and distance and height. It would not be easy for anyone to predict your results. You may just need to try. Keep in mind the CM is very directional and you may need to spend some time to get the best results. Follow what Doug says about the amp vs preamp. If you do give it a try, good luck with it.


----------



## slocko

Hey I have good news for those of you waiting for the combiner.


I just saved $600 dollars by switching to Geico







!


----------



## trekkerj

First It's 15%, not $600, and second, stop wasting my time.


----------



## vruiz

Is anyone else having problems with WNBC-DT? I never had a problem with them before but I haven't been able to get it now for the last couple of days. All the other stations still come in fine.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> Is anyone else having problems with WNBC-DT? I never had a problem with them before but I haven't been able to get it now for the last couple of days.



Vic, No problem here in Jersey, watch WNBC-DT last night and just checked it this morning.


Tony


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Hey I have good news for those of you waiting for the combiner.
> 
> 
> I just saved $600 dollars by switching to Geico
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !*



I thought it was funny.....


----------



## trekkerj

It's about the 10th time I've seen someone post the 'geico' joke on a forum I read in about the past couple of weeks.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *The preamp is the important step -- amplifying the signal at the antenna where it's strongest; then as the signal travels over the coax, there's a slight loss and noise gain per foot, and through any connections. At the distribution amp, you're now amplifying the signal that reaches it, adding more noise but also increasing signal levels, typically to cover losses through splitting or longer cable runs.
> 
> 
> Unless you're splitting the signal a lot or running pretty lengthy cabling, the distribution amp probably does more harm than good.
> 
> 
> Neither amplifier can improve a signal that isn't there -- meaning if you put a TV right up at the antenna and can't get a signal, an amplifier is very unlikely to help you get one; it's just taking a decent enough signal at the antenna and amplifying it to account for further losses in your distribution chain.*



Excellent explanation. Thanks. In my case, it seems that increasing the signal level was a more important factor than the added noise. With the amp, I can now receive WABC-DT reliably. With just the pre-amp, it was literally day in and day out.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *It's about the 10th time I've seen someone post the 'geico' joke on a forum I read in about the past couple of weeks.*



Nobody in NJ should, though. Geico won't write insurance for NJ residents.


----------



## trekkerj

Yes they will. Um, can we get back to the topic, please?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Excellent explanation. Thanks. In my case, it seems that increasing the signal level was a more important factor than the added noise. With the amp, I can now receive WABC-DT reliably. With just the pre-amp, it was literally day in and day out.*



Which preamp are you using?


----------



## Infominister

The Channel Master 7775. I guess what I was trying to determine before was whether the amp' made the pre-amp' redundant, but you answered that question.


----------



## Swisher

Better than all the other NYC area HD channels, that is. Maybe a dumb question, but I'm always disappointed when I flip from CBS to any other HD channel and feel I've lost a lot of clarity. Is this a matter of compression, antenna power, processing quality? Will it likely change with the, um, combiner?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Swisher_
> *Better than all the other NYC area HD channels, that is. Maybe a dumb question, but I'm always disappointed when I flip from CBS to any other HD channel and feel I've lost a lot of clarity. Is this a matter of compression, antenna power, processing quality? Will it likely change with the, um, combiner?*



CBS is the only station that does not multicast.


----------



## tvuser1

What does multicasting have to do with HD quality?


----------



## Taget

I have a similar pre-amp question like everyone else.


Background: I'm in Todt Hill in Staten Island. Somewhere between the button and top of the hill. But I do have high trees nearby. And Grymes Hill may be an impediment. Regular over the air signal wasn't so hot even pre-911 and isn't great now.


At the moment I just have a MyHD card I watch on my monitor waiting until I can get decent signal strength before getting the more expensive toys. I have an ancient attic antenna but had better results with a silver sensor. With 32% before about the cutoff I can get up to 80% on CBS. Fox is JUST over the threshold with frequent dropouts. And ABC is just under the threshold occasionally "dropping in."


Plans: I'm looking at installing an outdoor antenna. With the aim to also get decent over the air signal to those tv sets without directv. I'm looking to have about 4 or 5 rooms done. I plan on having a professional installation but am not certain how much the guy I'm talking with (who is offering a pretty good price) actually is familiar with HD.


Question: On the general forum for my distance from NYC (about 10 miles) people seem to recommend against a pre-amp. But I notice everyone here is using a pre-amp. At my distance (particularly if you're in Staten Island) is it recommended? Since pre-amps can hurt channels with strong signals could it hurt after the new broadcast tower is recommended?


Bonus question: I'm sure everyone asks this but. If anyone is in Staten Island or the vicinity. Any recommendations for equipment I should use? Would a dual VHF-UHF antenna be good enough?


----------



## rgrossman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tvuser1_
> *What does multicasting have to do with HD quality?*



It reduces the amount of bandwidth available to the HD broadcast.


----------



## berniec

I dunno if its just a fluke or maybe something going on at ESB or what but I just did a re-scan of my channels and I'm now suddenly getting THE WB in HD on Channel 12, and WNBC-HD on channel 28 in bergen co. with my same antenna setup that could never pick them up....


----------



## trekkerj

Just some favorable atmospheric conditions, most likely.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *CBS is the only station that does not multicast.*



WNBC-DT no longer multicasts also.


----------



## dturturro

CBS was a little spotty for me the last few weeks. Were they testing or something? Have they gotten back to their normal operating status?


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *WNBC-DT no longer multicasts also.*



Did not notice that. Maybe they did this to correct some audio issues they were having on the HD channel.


----------



## GRN

How is it that all the New Jersey people can get WNBC-DT yet most of use here in New York are SOL? *sigh*


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *How is it that all the New Jersey people can get WNBC-DT yet most of use here in New York are SOL? *sigh*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Were did you get either of these "facts" from?


----------



## icemannyr

I notice all the video used on the WNBC show Jane's New York has black bars on the top and bottom which would indicate the show is recorded with HD cameras yet the video on WNBC-DT is 4:3.


Does anyone know why the show is not broadcast in HD?

Does WNBC not have support for local HD program broadcasting?


----------



## trekkerj

Why would bars at the top and bottom tell you the show is recorded with HD cameras?


----------



## icemannyr

When some HDTV shows are shown at 4:3 the bars are used so you can view the full area of the screen that would be cropped if the show was in full screen 4:3.


NBC does this with shows like ER shown on the non HD feed.


I don't think WNBC would just use them for effect on but I could be wrong.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *How is it that all the New Jersey people can get WNBC-DT yet most of use here in New York are SOL? *sigh*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I live in Matawan, NJ and cannot get WNBC-DT. The signal is too weak for my attic antenna. I only get CBC, FOX and ABC. No WPIX either.


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I live in Matawan, NJ and cannot get WNBC-DT. The signal is too weak for my attic antenna. I only get CBC, FOX and ABC. No WPIX either.*



I'm in Randolph, at a good altitude, and also cannot get 4 in at all


----------



## trekkerj

I'm just down the road in Morris Plains and get it fine with a rat shack indoor antenna. I think the signal is aimed more toward NJ than Long Island.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *Were did you get either of these "facts" from?*



"Were" did I get these facts from? I never said they were "facts", more like an observation. It seems like every post about WNBC-DT is from someone in NJ. Look at the prior posts. But as Dennis Miller was fond of saying "that's just my opinion; I could be wrong".


In any case, maybe someone has an answer to this because I sure as hell don't: I can get WPIX-DT clear as day, 77% signal strength on my DISH 811 receiver. Mind you, it's a signal that everyone seems to agree is weak and difficult to lock onto, yet my receiver and antenna have no problem with it. By that same token, I can get a signal from WNBC-DT, albeit at 49% strength and can't lock onto it. Anyone know if a pre-amp would help? Or should I just save the money and wait for the combiner? Decisions decisions......


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I think the signal is aimed more toward NJ than Long Island.*



Actually just the opposite.












(the red line is due north from the transmitter)


The real problem is that 10.5kW at 886 feet is just not a lot of power for UHF 28.


----------



## netman

GRN,


A preamp might help but my guess is it still will not have NBC come in for you with no problems. They are transmitting from a relatively low antenna amongst tall buildings. You just may need to wait for better reception. Even the ESB is not what was planned years back as the transmitter site. That site has been taken away from us. It was not the broadcasters who did that.


Many of the people you see in NJ are just plain closer than you are and some have better terrain between them and the transmitter but the truth is many in NY are doing fine with NBC and many in NJ are not.


I am in Suffolk (33 miles from the transmitter) and I get NBC but it does breakup some. I can watch but I wait for better reception from the combiner and then further down the line the new tower on the trade center site if that ever gets built.


UHF reception is line of site; it is about height, distance and terrain. I have a topographic map which makes some of these reception issues people have much easier to understand. For example between myself and the ESB is miles of ground which is HIGHER than I am. THAT does little to help my reception.


----------



## s236




> Quote:
> I live in Matawan, NJ and cannot get WNBC-DT. The signal is too weak for my attic antenna. I only get CBC, FOX and ABC. No WPIX either.



Gary, I live only a few miles from you and I get WNBC-DT just fine. I have the Channel Master 4228 antenna (in the attic) and 7775 preamp from IEI, airport plaza and the LG LST-3100A receiver.


Tony


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I live in Matawan, NJ and cannot get WNBC-DT. The signal is too weak for my attic antenna. I only get CBC, FOX and ABC. No WPIX either.*



CBC!? Now that is GOOD reception!


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *GRN,
> 
> 
> A preamp might help but my guess is it still will not have NBC come in for you with no problems. They are transmitting from a relatively low antenna amongst tall buildings. You just may need to wait for better reception. Even the ESB is not what was planned years back as the transmitter site. That site has been taken away from us. It was not the broadcasters who did that.
> 
> 
> Many of the people you see in NJ are just plain closer than you are and some have better terrain between them and the transmitter but the truth is many in NY are doing fine with NBC and many in NJ are not.
> 
> 
> I am in Suffolk (33 miles from the transmitter) and I get NBC but it does breakup some. I can watch but I wait for better reception from the combiner and then further down the line the new tower on the trade center site if that ever gets built.
> 
> 
> UHF reception is line of site; it is about height, distance and terrain. I have a topographic map which makes some of these reception issues people have much easier to understand. For example between myself and the ESB is miles of ground which is HIGHER than I am. THAT does little to help my reception.*



I know this is WAY down the line, but when ALL stations have converted to digital, will they be allowed to return to their analog frequencies? Translation: would CBS-DT broadcast digitally from channel 2 rather than 56?


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I know this is WAY down the line, but when ALL stations have converted to digital, will they be allowed to return to their analog frequencies? Translation: would CBS-DT broadcast digitally from channel 2 rather than 56?*



currently the plan is to let the stations choose which frequency they would like to continue broadcasting on.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by berniec_
> *currently the plan is to let the stations choose which frequency they would like to continue broadcasting on.*



Nice! Don't VHF antennas tend to have better ranges than UHF?


----------



## dswallow

The lower VHF frequencies seem to be open to considerably more interference for ATSC broadcasts; it takes a lot less power to broadcast at the lower frequencies and cover the same area than it does at higher frequencies.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *would CBS-DT broadcast digitally from channel 2 rather than 56?*



Unless the FCC has changed the rules, they will not be on channel 56. Channels 52 to 69 are going away for TV use. WCBS will have to choose a channel number below 52 that becomes available or convert channel 2 to digital.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *Unless the FCC has changed the rules, they will not be on channel 56. Channels 52 to 69 are going away for TV use. WCBS will have to choose a channel number below 52 that becomes available or convert channel 2 to digital.*



most likely not 2, i forget the specifics but somewhere in the country there is a CBS HD station on either channel 2 or 3 and they are having a lot of issues gettin a reliable HD signal out over that low a channel


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by berniec_
> *somewhere in the country there is a CBS HD station on either channel 2 or 3*



WBBM-DT channel 3 Chicago.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s236_
> *Gary, I live only a few miles from you and I get WNBC-DT just fine. I have the Channel Master 4228 antenna (in the attic) and 7775 preamp from IEI, airport plaza and the LG LST-3100A receiver.Tony*



It is most likely height and trees that effect my reception. I have some very tall trees that block my house due north.


I also got the channel master pre-amp from IEI. It made very little difference in my signal strength. I am using the HR10-250 (Tivo) as my OTA tuner. I am not sure upgrading my old attic antenna will make a difference. The IEI folks told me where I live I have little chance of getting NBC with a better antenna.


----------



## cgorra

Gary, once the new antenna combiner is up on the ESB, and WNBC-DT is up to full power, you should have no problem getting WNBC-DT, so take heart, it won't be too long from now! If you want a decent signal now, go with the 4228, and mount it on the roof...antennas mounted in the attic always compromise reception


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cgorra_
> *If you want a decent signal now, go with the 4228, and mount it on the roof...antennas mounted in the attic always compromise reception*



I have no option for a roof antenna (landlord issues). I just am not sure a 4228 would work any better in my attic.


----------



## Johnr0836

Until last Thursday I was using a Winguard PR8800 (attic mounted). When I first put it up, more than two years ago, I could reliable receive all of the Philly stations. After about 10 months I lost FOX and then last year I lost PBS. I tried adjusting, cleaning etc. but nothing work. Last Thursday I put up a Antenna Direct DB8 in the same place as the PR8800. With no adjusting I received PBS all the time and FOX in the evenings. On Saturday I turned the antenna 180 degrees toward NYC because I really want to be able to get the baseball playoffs. Without any adjusting I received CBS, FOX+UPN, ABC and during the evenings NBC. I am also receiving NBC WP and sometime PBS out of Philly as well. It's all very strange to me but the new antenna really out performs the Winguard.


----------



## cpto

Does anyone know if WABC will have either more power or greater NJ coverage after it moves to the ESB - if it does? Even in good weather I get 2 or three short dropouts an hour.


Thanks.


Rick


----------



## Infominister

Anyone have trouble with WCBS-DT during prime time last night? My signal was going all over the place with frequent drop-outs. WABC-DT was strong and steady.


----------



## chrisb3

Is there any word on UPN-HD? I'd love to be able to watch Enterprise in HD this Friday.


----------



## trekkerj

Not until after the combiner is completed, so probably not for a while. Sorry. I've been waiting for this too, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen in the very near future. Hopefully, they will start HD transmission of UPN9 before the Enterprise season ends.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Not until after the combiner is completed, so probably not for a while. Sorry. I've been waiting for this too, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen in the very near future. Hopefully, they will start HD transmission of UPN9 before the Enterprise season ends.*



Well that just sucks. Oh well.


No idea on when the combiner is finished?


----------



## Infominister

Latest target date is mid-November, but that could change.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Latest target date is mid-November, but that could change.*



Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## slocko

upn-hd is the only channel missing for me to be in ota hd heaven.


i decided to just wait for the combiner instead of spending money to have a pro install an expensive roof antenna so I can maybe catch the philly station.


----------



## rkunces

that stinks, i can even get reception for upn or wb from my location too. its not even lsited on the digital stations only analog


----------



## Aceman

anyone in hunterdon county nj (45 miles out) getting fox hd ????


thx.


aceman


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rkunces_
> *that stinks, i can even get reception for upn or wb from my location too. its not even lsited on the digital stations only analog*



Doesn't UPN air digitally on channel 39 or 59 in CT?


----------



## rkunces

it might but it still doesn't show up on my list of digital stations i can recieve via OTA.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Aceman_
> *anyone in hunterdon county nj (45 miles out) getting fox hd ????
> 
> 
> thx.
> 
> 
> aceman*



I'm in flemington and i can squeek out an occasional signal from fox in NY with a 4228 with a pre-amp in my attic. But I can get Philly's fox real easy with the 4228 or a silver sensor, either in the attic and no pre-amp needed.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Anyone have trouble with WCBS-DT during prime time last night? My signal was going all over the place with frequent drop-outs. WABC-DT was strong and steady.*



WABC-HD is broadcasting at full power from 4 Times Square, there are not involved in the combiner @ ESB so their signal is already as good as its going to get


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by berniec_
> *WABC-HD is broadcasting at full power from 4 Times Square, there are not involved in the combiner @ ESB so their signal is already as good as its going to get*



Incorrect. WABC-DT will be on the combiner.


----------



## Gary Quiring

Does channel 9 (UPN/WOR) have a HD channel in NY?


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *Incorrect. WABC-DT will be on the combiner.*



Yes, it will, but I hope moving on to the ESB combiner from 4 Times Square won't diminish WABC-DT's current signal quality. Right now, for me, it's significantly stronger and steadier than WCBS-DT and WNYW-DT (Fox).


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Yes, it will, but I hope moving on to the ESB combiner from 4 Times Square won't diminish WABC-DT's current signal quality. Right now, for me, it's significantly stronger and steadier than WCBS-DT and WNYW-DT (Fox).*



Me, too. I wish WABC-DT would just stay where they are. They are my strongest signal.


----------



## Paul K

2 weeks ago, I had some difficulty pulling in WABC during MNF, but last Monday, it was coming in very strong. Did they increase their power? I'm having company for Monday Night Football this Monday, and I am hoping that the signal remains strong.


----------



## berniec

I pull in WABC and WCBS both pegged at 100% so you should see a minor increase if anything since they will have a slight hight increase when them move to empire


----------



## Infominister

I'm not sure that height is the determining factor; any one person's signal strength is affected by a number of variables. It's just that, in at least a few cases noted here, WABC-DT has been the strongest and steadiest signal ever since their upgrade about a month ago.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *Does channel 9 (UPN/WOR) have a HD channel in NY?*



No. FOX is currently rebroadcasting UPN's analog channel in its subchannel 5-2.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *WABC-DT has been the strongest and steadiest signal ever since their upgrade about a month ago.*



Agreed. WCBS is 2nd and WNYW is 3rd. WNBC is non-existant for me.


----------



## netman

"I'm not sure that height is the determining factor; any one person's signal strength is affected by a number of variables. It's just that, in at least a few cases noted here, WABC-DT has been the strongest and steadiest signal ever since their upgrade about a month ago."





Yep. Good example: here in Deer Park FOX is stronger than the rest.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *No. FOX is currently rebroadcasting UPN's analog channel in its subchannel 5-2.*



The quality of that is so poor I watch the analog channel (9) instead. FOX should stop wasting bandwidth carrying the same program material you can get elswhere.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I'm not sure that height is the determining factor; any one person's signal strength is affected by a number of variables. It's just that, in at least a few cases noted here, WABC-DT has been the strongest and steadiest signal ever since their upgrade about a month ago.*



for the majority it would be the deciding factory, UHF signals travel via line of sight, the higher a transmitting antenna the more it can "see" -- now this will moreso help those living farther out then in the city where the signal bounces around off buildings, etc.


----------



## vinnyv07

For me the height would mean a ton...Im in Staten Island on the wrong side of Toad HILL. Alot of us over here in SI have trouble getting sigs OTA....the higher the better. It could only help. CBS is still my strongest sig...with ABC in 2nd and then Fox ...NBC I cant get at all OTA...Im getting NBCDT via Directv.


----------



## netman

When all is said and done, it is hard to beat height - on both ends if possible. It would surprise (but not shock) me if ABC got worse with the move to the ESB and boy I live for the day we get a taller site in NYC.


----------



## pipsqueak

i'm just about to get a HDTV pci card for my htpc and wanted to get an idea of what (if any) channels i'm going to get.


I live on the UWS on NYC - near 100th street. i'm on the 3rd floor of a large building and i face west. i can use an internal antenna but thats about it...


does anyone know what channels i can look forward to receiving?


thanks


----------



## GRN

Did anyone else catch the _Smart Travels_ program on Athens and Delphi, Greece tonight on WNJN? Most awesome picture I've ever seen. If more retailers had properly calibrated sets and showed awesome stuff like this in the store, I can't imagine how anyone would be on the fence about getting an HDTV......


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pipsqueak_
> *does anyone know what channels i can look forward to receiving?*



Check it out:

http://www.antennaweb.org


----------



## robbie06




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pipsqueak_
> *i'm just about to get a HDTV pci card for my htpc and wanted to get an idea of what (if any) channels i'm going to get.
> 
> 
> I live on the UWS on NYC - near 100th street. i'm on the 3rd floor of a large building and i face west. i can use an internal antenna but thats about it...
> 
> 
> does anyone know what channels i can look forward to receiving?
> 
> 
> thanks*



I'm currently using the FusionHDTV 3 Gold Qam and I'm really not getting that many channels using a silver sensor antenna(indoors). I live on a 3rd floor also and I only get ABC. But if you're a Time Warner cable, I would recommend this card because using QAM, I'm currently receiving CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, PBS, TNT HD, Discovery HD with great picture quality. You dont have to worry about orientating the antenna looking for good signals.


----------



## Infominister

Has anyone been having trouble in the last few days with WCBS-DT, Channel 56? Couldn't watch the Jets game yesterday because of wildly fluctuating signal strength, and other times couldn't even get a signal with the bar down in the 20s. What's going on? It wasn't atmospheric because WABC-DT and WNYW-DT, while not at their strongest, were more than adequate.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Has anyone been having trouble in the last few days with WCBS-DT, Channel 56? Couldn't watch the Jets game yesterday because of wildly fluctuating signal strength, and other times couldn't even get a signal with the bar down in the 20s. What's going on? It wasn't atmospheric because WABC-DT and WNYW-DT, while not at their strongest, were more than adequate.*



Nope no problem. Although it has been doing this weird thing lately: I'll put the channel on, and it will fluctuate between 49-55%. Then it goes black for about a second and locks on at 73%. It doesn't break up after that, but if I switch channels and turn back, it wil do the same thing. It never used to do that before, although before it only used to lock on at about 66%, so if anything the signal seems stronger now.


----------



## icemannyr

Cablevision added two WLIW channels WLIW-DT and WLIW Create.

I noticed the channel which I believe is WLIW-DT is a SD simulcast of WLIW-TV 21.


What are the channels and subs for the OTA WLIW-DT?

Could it be I am not tuning in the correct channel?


----------



## netman

WLIW is on Ch 22. They have two subs and as you see neither has any HD content. Subs are 2 and 3 according to MyHD


----------



## Calabs

On a similar note, is anyone getting WLIW via OTA in the central Jersey area? I used to get it periodically, but it just flat out dissappreared a while back.


----------



## icemannyr

Someone in another group said WLIW is no longer broadcasting in HD but they are using that bandwith to broadcast two subs.


----------



## netman

Calabs, you are not missing anything; WLIW has no HD content.


ice, I just said that


----------



## dturturro

It's too bad, too. I NEVER watched PBS but I actually started watching NOVA and some other assorted shows on WLIW. I even wrote them and pointed out how an HD pledge drive would probably bring in more money than most of there drives. Now I'm stuck waiting for WNET to go high power on the combiner.


----------



## TAKKL

Anyone having problems receiving WCBS-DT (56-1)? I have no signal for this station.


----------



## netman

Yep, same here. Been like this a while today.


----------



## mad6c

CBS-DT Came in fine during Raymond, I seem to be having trouble with ABC.


Mike


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mad6c_
> *CBS-DT Came in fine during Raymond, I seem to be having trouble with ABC.
> 
> 
> Mike*



Same here; WABC-DT is coming in at 60% tops for me, breaking up like crazy. It's actually been like that the last few nights......


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mad6c_
> *CBS-DT Came in fine during Raymond, I seem to be having trouble with ABC.
> 
> 
> Mike*



CBS OTA for me is all mangled on TWO DIFFERENT CM4228 antenna hookups that feed 3 different Hughes E86 D* receivers. Signal strength of 30 to 70 and back and forth....when 100 is the norm.


Also---the D* HD CBS feed is messed up here and there. Not as bad pixelation as the OTA feed....but some problems noticeable during commercials.


All other OTA channels from NYC are normal signal strength so far tonight....including WABC-DT.


----------



## chiroppa

anyone get OTA NBC? it's the one channel i was hoping to get but i have no reception..


----------



## Infominister

A WCBS engineer told me yesterday that the station has been doing transmitter and antenna mast work this past week or so. The drop-outs and low signal strength have been caused by the need to go to auxiliary equipment from time to time. He said he expects things to be back to normal in time for sports this weekend. From there, work continues on the combiner project, with cautious hope that it will be ready to go in about a month.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *From there, work continues on the combiner project, with cautious hope that it will be ready to go in about a month.*



The combiner project reminds me of another project - Duke Nukem Forever. The wait continues.......


----------



## GRN

Does anyone know whether ABC-DT is doing work on their antenna/signal? It was coming in strong for me since they turned the signal back on, but the last few days it's barely been breaking 49%. Can anyone find out (from ABC's engineers)? And no, "my signal strength is fine" is not the answer I'm looking for


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *A WCBS engineer told me yesterday that the station has been doing transmitter and antenna mast work this past week or so. The drop-outs and low signal strength have been caused by the need to go to auxiliary equipment from time to time. He said he expects things to be back to normal in time for sports this weekend. From there, work continues on the combiner project, with cautious hope that it will be ready to go in about a month.*



Thanks for the update! I wasn't noticing the loss of signal since I'd been watching baseball and just happened to flip tonight.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Does anyone know whether ABC-DT is doing work on their antenna/signal? It was coming in strong for me since they turned the signal back on, but the last few days it's barely been breaking 49%. Can anyone find out (from ABC's engineers)? And no, "my signal strength is fine" is not the answer I'm looking for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Actually, "my signal strength is fine" is an acceptable answer from someone who is close to you. I can not find "from parts unknown" on the map, so I can't give you helpful information. Since I can't say "my signal strength is fine" from Selden, I'm not sure if I'm helping you...


----------



## netman

Every time I see one of the stations go up or down is signal strength or the signals get more or less stable I think "maybe they are working on the combiner" [you need to envision those swirly lines from a TV dream sequence here]. I think it is a plot to deplete our sanity cause thing always return to the way they were. I mean why is CBS working on an antenna or mast they plan to not be using in a month or so? This is all a conspiracy run by the Illuminati.


(told you may sanity was depleted)


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *I mean why is CBS working on an antenna or mast they plan to not be using in a month or so?*



The present antenna will still be used by WCBS-DT. The combiner will "combine" the WCBS transmitter's output with the outputs of the other stations and feed this antenna. Instead of one station radiating from this antenna, there will be six.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *The present antenna will still be used by WCBS-DT. The combiner will "combine" the WCBS transmitter's output with the outputs of the other stations and feed this antenna. Instead of one station radiating from this antenna, there will be six.*




Is CBS going to run more power than they are now when all is setled in?


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *Actually, "my signal strength is fine" is an acceptable answer from someone who is close to you. I can not find "from parts unknown" on the map, so I can't give you helpful information. Since I can't say "my signal strength is fine" from Selden, I'm not sure if I'm helping you...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



You don't know where Parts Unknown, NY is? Shame on you!










Actually I live in West Hempstead, on the South Shore of Nassau County LI, about 17 miles from the broadcast signal.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *Is CBS going to run more power than they are now when all is setled in?*



My educated guess would be no.


----------



## BCastro

Maintenance the rest of week should be back friday night.I work at wcbs-tv

engineering.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by BCastro_
> *Maintenance the rest of week should be back friday night.I work at wcbs-tv engineering.*



Thanks for confirming. How about the question above regarding power levels post combiner?


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *Actually, "my signal strength is fine" is an acceptable answer from someone who is close to you. I can not find "from parts unknown" on the map, so I can't give you helpful information. Since I can't say "my signal strength is fine" from Selden, I'm not sure if I'm helping you...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Actually I got WABC-DT back at normal strength tonight (sure could have used it on Monday night







). I wonder if we're going to start seeing more signal fluctuations as we get closer to everyone getting hooked up on the combiner.........


----------



## Linux23

Ever since Sunday night I have been having weird reception issues. CBS, ABC, FOX and the WB would not tune properly. And I come home today expecting to watch Smallville and I find out the WB is not broadcasting at all. This really pisses me off, and I hope they get their act together and get this combiner project finished once and for all.


----------



## icemannyr

Sorry if this was discussed already but does anyone actually watch them?

They are so over compressed they are hard to watch.

Almost every second the video suffers from tiling and artifacts.


I guess they can get away with it on the cartoons on PBS Kids but any

live action shows looks bad.

I wish they would give the badwith back to the PBS-HD feed which suffers from lack of full bandwith.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *Sorry if this was discussed already but does anyone actually watch them?
> 
> They are so over compressed they are hard to watch...*



You have to wonder what they are thinking. (or are they)


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *You have to wonder what they are thinking. (or are they)*



You must be the only 2 people that receive WNET


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

Is WCBS-DT off the air? It's not coming in, either OTA or through Cablevision.


----------



## icemannyr

You caught me







Since there is no thread for NYC Cablevision HD I posted here.


----------



## PDPnNJ

I'm missing CSI in HD


----------



## trekkerj

Not getting CBS-HD either. They must be completing whatever work they're doing. Nice though, during the most popular show on that network.


----------



## cpto

I'm getting nothing OTA and the DTV channel says that "this channel is currently not broadcasting." I wonder if the entire CBS-HD east coast feed is down or if it's just a local problem.


----------



## Carl Sims

CSI in SD is just plain wrong.


----------



## Chriš2

This is ridiculous- I find it hard to believe they would shut it down during their most popular show. Does anyone have contact information for somebody at WCBS engineering?


----------



## Myrtledog

I am about 60 miles from Manhattan. I live in Putnam County and am on a hill without any tall obstructions towards NYC. What are the chances I would be able to get HD OTA signals without an antenna the size of Godzilla?


Anybody up in this area get HD OTA reception?


----------



## RNaval

What channels are currently available in OTA HD in New York City and what location are they broadcast from? (where do I point my OTA antenna?)


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RNaval_
> *What channels are currently available in OTA HD in New York City and what location are they broadcast from? (where do I point my OTA antenna?)*



Check Antennaweb


----------



## Linux23




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *This is ridiculous- I find it hard to believe they would shut it down during their most popular show. Does anyone have contact information for somebody at WCBS engineering?*



i agree. unfortunately the DTV channels are not a priority for broadcasters yet.


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *You caught me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since there is no thread for NYC Cablevision HD I posted here.*



FYI,

New York, NY Cablevision thread....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...54#post4449654 


as far as reception in Putnam. It might depend upon which tall hill. Like on top of Continental Village near WHUD's tower is a possibility for ESB transmitters. Unfortunately antenna websites only show contours, not terrain. Get Delorme's terrain mapping software for accurate information.


GT


----------



## netman

HA! I just read much of that thread. I learned that sometimes pigs DO fly! Maybe that is a good omen for us combiner-watchers.


----------



## Aceman

Guys,


I'm exactly 45 miles from philly & NYC. I get most all of the Philly stations OTA, but only seem to be able to get CBS from NYC.


Are the other stations just not at full strength or is it my setup possibly?

Any help is appreciated!


thx.


Aceman


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Aceman_
> *Guys,
> 
> 
> I'm exactly 45 miles from philly & NYC. I get most all of the Philly stations OTA, but only seem to be able to get CBS from NYC.
> 
> 
> Are the other stations just not at full strength or is it my setup possibly?
> 
> Any help is appreciated!
> 
> 
> thx.
> 
> 
> Aceman*



ABC is full strength out of NYC, as far as I know.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Aceman_
> *Guys,
> 
> 
> I'm exactly 45 miles from philly & NYC. I get most all of the Philly stations OTA, but only seem to be able to get CBS from NYC.
> 
> 
> Are the other stations just not at full strength or is it my setup possibly?
> 
> Any help is appreciated!
> 
> 
> thx.
> 
> 
> Aceman*



I'm in flemington- close to middle like you (lean a little towards philly actaully although my zip code is actually in NY DMA)- anyhow only fox and CBS are possible from NY. CBS is great (high 80's), FOX is very good (mid 70's). Nothing else even registers with consistancy on the signal strength meter on my STB.


Thats with a 4228 with a pre-amp in my attic.


Philly I can get prettty much with a coat hanger. (exagerating a bit but a silver sensor without any amp works fine)- so its totally sad to see how weak an effort NY has made.


----------



## Johnr0836

I'm in West Windsor. I get CBS, ABC and Fox out of NYC and occasionally NBC. But I also get NBC aout of Philly off the back of the antenna. I'm using an Antennas Direct DB8 in the attic with a Winguard pre-amp.


----------



## dm145

I have an interesting problem. If I leave out the zip code info on my Samsung 360, I receive 52.1 - 52.5 which gives me PBSHD. With my zip code info added these channels switch to 50.1 - 50.5 and I get a blank screen on 50.5. Of course without the zip code info the pro is another HD channel and the con is no local program guide data. My guess is from my location I can pickup signals from two different PBS transmitters and my receiver only locks one or the other. This may explain on my old DST-3000 how I would sometimes get PBSHD and sometimes not. Anyone else have this problem or a fix?


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I get a blank screen on 50.5.*



Interesting, I have a TS360 as well and I live very close to you. I'm currently watching 50-5 without any problems. Remember, 50-5 is only airing between 8pm and 12am. My only beef is that the Guide is wrong.


----------



## DevOne

Does anyone here receive WPIX-DT? How is the reception in your area?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DevOne_
> *Does anyone here receive WPIX-DT? How is the reception in your area?*



I get it in Levittown, but it's quite spotty. Waiting for the combiner


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DevOne_
> *Does anyone here receive WPIX-DT? How is the reception in your area?*



I receive WPIX-DT at 77% signal strength, no breakup here in Parts Unknown NY (very close to West Hempstead NY







)


----------



## hobbes382

Just wondering if you guys have found antennaweb.org to be accurate and up-to-date on its prediction of channels you can receive at your location.


I'm about 45 miles outside NYC, with a big aerial on my roof, and antennaweb.org says I won't get anything digital out of there. But I recieve all the big network analog stuff no problem.


I am on the verge of ordering a Toshiba 52HMX84, and really hope to pick up high def stuff OTA from NYC. By the way, I'm in the Ridgefield/Danbury CT area.


What is your experience? Do I have a chance or not?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## vinnyv07

I dont find antennaweb to be accurate for my area either...but its a great tool to use to get an idea of where you have to point the Ant. Right now Im getting CBS, Fox, ABC, UPN out of Staten Island NY....but no NBC or PIX. Waiting for the combiner myself....hope its ready for ThanksGiving....anyone have any updates. Last word was it would be ready hopefully in around a mth....

On another note did anyone see the Yankee Boston game last night? I thought it looked great OTA...much better than the feed that Directv was giving me. But to get back to the OTA feed of Fox.....there were many times during the game where the picture seemed to sort of flip. Did anyone else see that? Fox has got to get there act together....they did a good job overall but I was watching it with my wife and she kept on saying "what was that?"


----------



## seaford

Is anyone having a problem with Fox? I am getting a spitting/freezing/breakup problem every now and then for the past two days. The same thing is happening on 5.1 & Directv so it is either Fox or my receiver.


----------



## winman42

Yes, i've seen the FOX feed do the picture 'flip' thing at least 10 times last nite, and i dropped the signal, which went to a black sceen a few times. This happened at least 4 or 5 times.


Win


----------



## ghostman

What you are seeing is a sync hit or loss. It seems to be coming from either WNYW or the network (doubtful about the network - people all across the country would be complaining). It is effecting OTA and cable (I'm seeing it on RCN).


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ghostman_
> *What you are seeing is a sync hit or loss. It seems to be coming from either WNYW or the network (doubtful about the network - people all across the country would be complaining).*



People around the country are complaining about it. It has been mentioned in some of the Fox threads in the programming forum.


----------



## Terono

I just started out in OTA HDTV. I have a ATI HDTV WONDER. I have a large antenna on the roof that I can rotate. I just upgrading all the wiring to RG6 with new Amplifiers. I can get all the other local channels like 2.1, 4.1, 7.1. The problem is I can not get 5.1 and 5.2. I have a signal strength of 82 on these channels but the picture does not load (when I tune to these channels all I get is a black screen or a picture of the last viewed channel). I am also extremely close to West Hempstead. Other channels that have lower signals like 66 come in fine. Was wondering if anyone has similar problems with FOX (5.1) and UPN (5.2).


----------



## cpto

George - I hate to batter our knowledgeable user with still more questions, but do you know if ABC-DT will have a higher ERP when it moves to the ESB? Or will reach further?


On the greatly-missed WTC, ABC was a very strong signal. It's still strong, but I typically get several short dropouts an hour. I seldom get these on CBS and very infrequently on FOX. Of course, I can't pick up WB here in NJ, although it was also a very strong signal before 9/11. As for UPS, I have no idea what's going on there. It seems to be a rush between going HD in NYC and going bankrupt.


Anything you can tell us about ABC and other networks' reach after the combiner will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks in advance for your expertise and the time you've taken letting us know what's really going on on top of the ESB.


Rick


----------



## George Thompson

It's late and the Yankees are up in the 10th. Overall the ESB antenna will give about an 85% effective coverage compared to the WTC coverage. Check the FCC site to see what the construction permits allow the stations to run for ERP. Remember it is a combination of ERP and antenna height that decides coverage. I'll see if I can find a contour map.

George


----------



## trekkerj

Do we know if the combiner has been delivered, or is it still in Maine?


----------



## NS324




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Terono_
> *I just started out in OTA HDTV. I have a ATI HDTV WONDER. I have a large antenna on the roof that I can rotate. I just upgrading all the wiring to RG6 with new Amplifiers. I can get all the other local channels like 2.1, 4.1, 7.1. The problem is I can not get 5.1 and 5.2. I have a signal strength of 82 on these channels but the picture does not load (when I tune to these channels all I get is a black screen or a picture of the last viewed channel). I am also extremely close to West Hempstead. Other channels that have lower signals like 66 come in fine. Was wondering if anyone has similar problems with FOX (5.1) and UPN (5.2).*



It's possible that this may be a problem with the ATI card. The URL below is for a review of the card; the reviewer had a problem with one of his 720p sources and the conclusion was that the ATI card was at fault.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1641010,00.asp


----------



## cjp2004




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Terono_
> *I just started out in OTA HDTV. I have a ATI HDTV WONDER. I have a large antenna on the roof that I can rotate. I just upgrading all the wiring to RG6 with new Amplifiers. I can get all the other local channels like 2.1, 4.1, 7.1. The problem is I can not get 5.1 and 5.2. I have a signal strength of 82 on these channels but the picture does not load (when I tune to these channels all I get is a black screen or a picture of the last viewed channel). I am also extremely close to West Hempstead. Other channels that have lower signals like 66 come in fine. Was wondering if anyone has similar problems with FOX (5.1) and UPN (5.2).*




I have the same problem with 5-1. I am using a Hughes E86 with OTA and I get a blank screen but 100% signal strength. This just started to happen about a month and a half ago. Before that I received it with no problems. I am thinking that I need a new STB.


----------



## Terono

NS324, Yes I was reading about the HDTV Wonder card in the HTPC forum about problems. I did find last night 44-1 which I did a autoscan and it found last night that was FOX. I have tried scanning about 20 times since and I do not find the channel. Does anyone know where 44-1 Fox is coming from ?


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Terono_
> *Does anyone know where 44-1 Fox is coming from ?*



Empire State Building


----------



## shappyss

Did anyone else have problems recieving CBS-HD at about 8:25 pm in the middle of NCIS the picture went out and is still out


----------



## netman

yep, picture (and signal) out.


----------



## icemannyr

No video or audio from WCBS-DT via Cablevision also.


----------



## dturturro

CBS has been testing for several days now. Does anyone know when they will be done? Or why they don't just do their work overnight instead of in primetime?


----------



## GRN

Just a quick question: How is is that the OTA CBS-DT signal goes down, but not the feed from DISH in CBS-HD..............?


----------



## Ken H

The OTA transmitter is off the air, but the feed to Dish & DirecTV is fiber.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken H_
> *The OTA transmitter is off the air, but the feed to Dish & DirecTV is fiber.*



Well then they're cutting the fiber to DirecTV when they're servicing OTA. Too many times I've gone and looked when it's dark OTA and found the same via DirecTV's CBSHD-E feed. Maybe it's just coincidence?


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Well then they're cutting the fiber to DirecTV when they're servicing OTA. Too many times I've gone and looked when it's dark OTA and found the same via DirecTV's CBSHD-E feed. Maybe it's just coincidence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Me too............both OTA and D* feed were out. Not the first time this has happened.


----------



## Scott G

Is all this WCBS-DT related to the combiner ?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Is all this WCBS-DT related to the combiner ?*



We can only hope. WCBS-DT has become dismally unreliable of late. It's frustrating; I almost feel like I should just go back to watching shows on ExpressVu live.


If it's combiner related, I can be patient.


If it's plain lack of concern for digital viewers while performing "scheduled" maintenance then they're in for some serious complaints.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *We can only hope. WCBS-DT has become dismally unreliable of late. It's frustrating; I almost feel like I should just go back to watching shows on ExpressVu live.
> 
> 
> If it's combiner related, I can be patient.
> 
> 
> If it's plain lack of concern for digital viewers while performing "scheduled" maintenance then they're in for some serious complaints.*



Anyone know the number to start voicing these complaints? Or even an address?


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Or even an address?*



if you want to go the snail mail route this should do the trick:


WCBS-TV Engineering

524 W. 57th Street

New York, NY 10019


----------



## George Thompson

To the best of my knowledge Dish only takes off air feeds from NYC stations to feed their sat net..... At least for NBC (WNBC)....

I thought it was fiber too until I was corrected by local engineering.

GT


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *To the best of my knowledge Dish only takes off air feeds from NYC stations to feed their sat net..... At least for NBC (WNBC)....
> 
> I thought it was fiber too until I was corrected by local engineering.
> 
> GT*



Dish Network definitely gets a fiber feed of WCBS-DT. An extra advantage to having fiber is that when a Yankee game is on, they supply a separate feed of CBS network programming to Dish Network that otherwise would be required to go to black during the game.


----------



## bjohn

I have the same NO picture, but enough signal problem using an ATI HDTV wonder card. Comes in fine on my dish 811.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Terono_
> *I just started out in OTA HDTV. I have a ATI HDTV WONDER. I have a large antenna on the roof that I can rotate. I just upgrading all the wiring to RG6 with new Amplifiers. I can get all the other local channels like 2.1, 4.1, 7.1. The problem is I can not get 5.1 and 5.2. I have a signal strength of 82 on these channels but the picture does not load (when I tune to these channels all I get is a black screen or a picture of the last viewed channel). I am also extremely close to West Hempstead. Other channels that have lower signals like 66 come in fine. Was wondering if anyone has similar problems with FOX (5.1) and UPN (5.2).*


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *To the best of my knowledge Dish only takes off air feeds from NYC stations to feed their sat net.....
> 
> GT*



HD is fiber for CBS.


----------



## trekkerj

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but does anyone have any combiner updates? Is this baby installed yet and being connected, or still in storage? November is around the corner.


----------



## seaford

>>Sorry to sound like a broken record, but does anyone have any combiner updates? Is this baby installed yet and being connected, or still in storage? November is around the corner.


I know someone who works as a guard on the 86th deck of ESB. He told me the other day that there are always workers up there and that the combiner is a big deal to the people that work for the ESB. I asked him specifically if there was any big new antenna up there and he said not yet.


----------



## vinnyv07

I watched THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW last night and around an hour and 40 mins in there was a great shot of the combiner freezing on the top of the ESB.


----------



## Infominister

... and I watched the original King Kong movie and there was a shot of the giant ape pulling the antenna off the top of the building.

Finally, some explanations for all the delays.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *... and I watched the original King Kong movie and there was a shot of the giant ape pulling the antenna off the top of the building.
> 
> Finally, some explanations for all the delays.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Actually I heard that the Combiner was unable to make it's way through the New England area because the "locals" found out it was bound for the Evil Empire (AKA New York) and interfered with the shipping of the unit.


Now that the Evil Empire has been defeated, the New Englanders have taken a 2 week sabbatical to see if the Sawx can erased almost 90 years of misery.


Stay tuned.....I hear NEXT we'll be blaming that *other* New Englander who's running for President......










Everyone is fair game in an election year.....right ?!?!?!


----------



## shappyss

Any REAL info. about the combiner?


----------



## Yung

Does anyone know why there is a 2-3 second delay for digital broadcast compared to the SD channels? I've noticed this before for syndicated shows, but am watching the World Series and noticed this for live broadcast as well.


----------



## trekkerj

MPEG encoding/decoding


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> Stay tuned.....I hear NEXT we'll be blaming that *other* New Englander who's running for President......
> 
> 
> Everyone is fair game in an election year.....right ?!?!?!



Oh... you just commited a huge offense. Rule number one in the AVS Forum Rule book states: He/She who writes a post, shall never ever make it political in nature!











Morg


----------



## cpto

I don't know exactly why the delay, Yung. I would have said mged encoding/decoding too but I'm not sure how much delay that ads.


For example, my HD TV with built-in tuner is normally a fraction of a second ahead of my PC HDTV receiver. And, on a couple of occasions, I've found that the HD signal actually leads the analog one.


I suspect that satellite transmissions may be responsible for some of this but I wonder why it isn't consistent.


Rick


This message is politics-free, and I approved it.


Rick


----------



## icemannyr

I was wondering why the video feed is bad on local FOX5 programming shown on WNYW-DT. It looks like it's a bad 480i to 720p conversion.

The video is full of analog grain noise and the video does not good.

You can see the difference when WNYW-DT switches from a FOX network show to the local feed for an ad break.

The 4:3 and HD shows from the network feed look fine.


Here's a still cap from Good Day NY which shows what I am talking about:


----------



## mishagray




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *I don't know exactly why the delay, Yung. I would have said mged encoding/decoding too but I'm not sure how much delay that ads.
> 
> 
> For example, my HD TV with built-in tuner is normally a fraction of a second ahead of my PC HDTV receiver. And, on a couple of occasions, I've found that the HD signal actually leads the analog one.
> 
> 
> I suspect that satellite transmissions may be responsible for some of this but I wonder why it isn't consistent.
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> This message is politics-free, and I approved it.
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *




There is also some buffering that goes on in both ATSC transmissions and satellite transmissions. This is because the data is actually sent a few times, spread out over a few "moments" using some interesting error correction technology. So the receivers will actually buffer the data for a moment before playing it back, to give it a good opportunity to get all the error correction data possible.


Then the data has to go through an MPEG video decoder and a seperate audio decoder. The interesting issue here, is that the video and audio can actually be "decoded" at different rates and then have to "resynchronized" so that the audio and video match correctly. The resnych also takes a few more moments.


Also: In TV stations, the video is actually still rendered in raw form (not in MPEG2). So the opposite process needs to occur, encode the video and audio, prior to broadcast. This also induces some delay.


In some stations, the SD transmissions are converted to NTSC also from the raw feed, and this can usually be done much faster, so it actually leaves the station first.


Also note: DirecTV/Dish will also RECOMPRESS video feeds (both SD and HD) from the stations to match their own network protocol needs and bandwidth. We know that they have at times lowered the quality of their HD feeds (when they had less bandwidth) over what HBOH and SHOH were transmitting to them. They seem to not need to do this anymore. (They still looked real good!)


Finally, if you have a HD PVR (Dish, DirecTV-Tivo), the data is buffered to the disk, prior to playback, so that introduces another delay.


----------



## Yung

Thanks for the explanation guys. I guess "live" tv is no longer real time. Does that mean no wardrobe malfunctions!


----------



## Chriš2

Well November is only a few days away. For the combiner, delivered, installed, tested, and operational in a week, or even a month, sounds pretty hopeless.










Then there will be time off for the holidays, then it will be too cold with snow/ice to do any antenna work, so I guess we should be looking at sometime around May?


----------



## vinnyv07

I hope not...I was really hoping for the end of this year for the combiner. I have learned to live without it as everyone else has. When you are talking NYC , it just takes forever to get anything accomplished. As big as NY is...all our football teams play in NJ. I come to this site everyday in hopes that someone will write some positive info about the combiner installation....and with each passing day I believe more and more that it wont happen. Theres alot of stuff to watch but for now Im not watching NBC....WPIX or WNET. If their sig isnt strong enough to reach me...then Im not watching.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *Well November is only a few days away. For the combiner, delivered, installed, tested, and operational in a week, or even a month, sounds pretty hopeless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there will be time off for the holidays, then it will be too cold with snow/ice to do any antenna work, so I guess we should be looking at sometime around May?*



An engineer at one of the affiliates who'll be "combining" said it would be "just a few weeks" now. He acknowledged that they've been promising this for a long time, but said it's really going to happen soon.


----------



## Gene Rogers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Terono_
> *I just started out in OTA HDTV. I have a ATI HDTV WONDER. I have a large antenna on the roof that I can rotate. I just upgrading all the wiring to RG6 with new Amplifiers. I can get all the other local channels like 2.1, 4.1, 7.1. The problem is I can not get 5.1 and 5.2. I have a signal strength of 82 on these channels but the picture does not load (when I tune to these channels all I get is a black screen or a picture of the last viewed channel). I am also extremely close to West Hempstead. Other channels that have lower signals like 66 come in fine. Was wondering if anyone has similar problems with FOX (5.1) and UPN (5.2).*



Terrano - I am having the exact same issue - I get all the other local channels except 5.1 (FOX) and 5.2 (UPN) via ATI HDTV Wonder. I get signal strenght of 90% on both, but no video at all. Sometimes I get audio on FOX (during the WS) but never a picture.


Could it be something to do with the graphics card in my PC?


----------



## Phil Hightech

Hello Guys, I've got the same problem with a twist. I have a Fusion III card. With the Fusion software, 5.1 (Fox) comes through great, 5.2 (UPN) is black. Watching with MCE2005 however, the opposite is true. All other channels are fine with either front end.

Does anyone have this issue with a STB or built in tuner?


----------



## Maynard

Which mpeg codec are you using? I was using windvd6 at first and had the problem with Fox. I tried the NVIDIA codec last night and FOX and WWOR worked for the first time in MCE.


Would be curious to see if it is a codec issue. Not sure I would be too suprised.


-maynard


----------



## n2lak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phil Hightech_
> *Hello Guys, I've got the same problem with a twist. I have a Fusion III card. With the Fusion software, 5.1 (Fox) comes through great, 5.2 (UPN) is black. Watching with MCE2005 however, the opposite is true. All other channels are fine with either front end.
> 
> Does anyone have this issue with a STB or built in tuner?*



Hi guys, I watching 5.1 and 5.2 OTA with a Sanyo 32" HDTV - no problem. Good luck.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phil Hightech_
> *Hello Guys, I've got the same problem with a twist. I have a Fusion III card. With the Fusion software, 5.1 (Fox) comes through great, 5.2 (UPN) is black. Watching with MCE2005 however, the opposite is true. All other channels are fine with either front end.
> 
> Does anyone have this issue with a STB or built in tuner?*



I also have a Fusion 3, and have the same problem with the Fusion software - I have no problems with 5.1, but get only audio on 5.2. However, if I record 5.2, I'm able to watch it in Media Player Classic or VLC media player just fine.


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Unoriginal Nick_
> *I also have a Fusion 3, and have the same problem with the Fusion software - I have no problems with 5.1, but get only audio on 5.2. However, if I record 5.2, I'm able to watch it in Media Player Classic or VLC media player just fine.*



I haven't tried recording UPN, thanks for the info. This certainly is a pain. I think it has something to do with the way Fox assigns UPN as a sub but not being an expert in ATSC modulation, I'll leave it at that. Hopefully this will all be moot when UPN has its own TX.


----------



## tvuser1

I'm using the QAM Fusion card OTA and also cannot get UPN. I get audio only OTA. I tried recording it, then I get a picture via Media Player, but no sound. It also gives some error messages in Media Player about a bad codec. I am running under ME. Do you think if I upgraded to XP I would be better off?


----------



## dm145

Why all the fuss over a non HD sub channel 5-2? Can we stay on topic? Local HDTV and Reception. I check this forum to get the status of HD not SD. This thread is long enough as it is. Thanks.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Why all the fuss over a non HD sub channel 5-2? Can we stay on topic? Local HDTV and Reception. I check this forum to get the status of HD not SD. This thread is long enough as it is. Thanks.*



This is quite on topic. This thread is New York OTA. That means ATSC broadcasts. 5-2 is an ATSC broadcast.


----------



## HiDefSooner

I found this quote from Mark Cuban in this article .


"Absolutely," Cuban said. "HDNet and HDNet Movies get added to TWC in NYC on Nov 4. And just like all music switched from AM to FM, all TV will go to HD, or it will just disappear."


----------



## Infominister

Has anyone been having trouble with WABC-DT in the last few days? Last night, during the Jets game on MNF, I had wildly erratic signal strength and occasional breakups. What's going on? For a while, after the transmitter work that took place between August and September, Channel 45 was my strongest digital station.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Has anyone been having trouble with WABC-DT in the last few days? Last night, during the Jets game on MNF, I had wildly erratic signal strength and occasional breakups. What's going on? For a while, after the transmitter work that took place between August and September, Channel 45 was my strongest digital station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Seriously, WABC-DT was horrible for me last night also. It wasn't that bad on the weekend, but last night it barely broke 49%, and when it did I lock on I would get a 63-64% signal for maybe 15-20 minutes before it would just drop off. _Monday_ of all days!


----------



## dan57

No trouble for me at all with WABC-DT last night.


----------



## dturturro

None for me in central Nassau either.


----------



## Infominister

Maybe it was just in certain parts, e.g., northern Westchester?


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Maybe it was just in certain parts, e.g., northern Westchester?*



I'm in Nassau and I was having problems, so maybe it's something else.......?


In any case I got the signal back at full strength today. Of course, I would have preferred it on _Monday_, but c'est la vie.....


----------



## tstatguy112

What gives with UPN 5-2 WOR Channel 9 in NY. I tuned into Star Trek Enterprise and it says in the corner it's in HDTV but it doesn't come in that way. What's the problem and who do you contact to get an answer.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tstatguy112_
> *What gives with UPN 5-2 WOR Channel 9 in NY. I tuned into Star Trek Enterprise and it says in the corner it's in HDTV but it doesn't come in that way. What's the problem and who do you contact to get an answer.*



UPN is not HD yet


----------



## Morg111

Anyone know the new date for the combiner? I want UPN HD.


M.


----------



## slocko

A lot of us are waiting to see the glory of TPOL in HD. Even Doug










What is the purpose of 5-2 when 9 is available? Is 9 not available to people in NY?


----------



## George Thompson

SMPTE meeting next Wednesday 11/10 at Postworks downtown. Guests invited to presentation of affordable HD editing. Reps from JVC and Sony.
http://www.mte.com/nysmpte/meetings/mtg0411.htm 

George


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> A lot of us are waiting to see the glory of TPOL in HD. Even Doug



I guess you knew where I was coming from on that request........


M.


----------



## csimons66

Overnight, I noticed WCBS 45-1 did not have a blank screen and WWOR 5-2 was not there.


Could this be signs the combiner work will be completed soon?


----------



## Maynard

I thought there were folks that monitored this thread that were somehow affiliated with that project. Can any of them provide an update?


thanks,


maynard


----------



## RMSko

I've been having problems with ABC again. Is anyone else experiencing problems with ABC?


----------



## s236

Rich, Im south of you and no problems with wabc-hd 7-1 or wabc-sd 7-2.


Tony


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *I've been having problems with ABC again. Is anyone else experiencing problems with ABC?*



Rich, I've been having trouble again with 7.1 and 7.2. I'm in Nassau County, NY. It's been on and off since Monday. I got a signal back around Wednesday, but the last few days it's been fluctuating between 49-63%, very difficult to lock onto the channel.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Rich, I've been having trouble again with 7.1 and 7.2. I'm in Nassau County, NY. It's been on and off since Monday. I got a signal back around Wednesday, but the last few days it's been fluctuating between 49-63%, very difficult to lock onto the channel.*



Thanks. That's the exact same experience that I'm having. I was getting it in the high 80s to low 90s before last week and now the channel is going in and out. Something similar happened about 2 months ago when they were doing some work, so maybe that's what is happening again.


----------



## GRN

You know, I don't mind if they're doing work on WABC. Really I don't. But I wish they wouldn't do it _Mondays_!!!!!


----------



## John Chu

I understand your frustration.


I'm in Woodside, Queens, which is very close to Manhattan so it allows me basically to pick up all available OTA channels with a RS double bow-tie indoor antenna.


However, I still have to adjust the antenna to lock on to any given channel from day to day.


CBS comes in the best for me so I just aim towards the Empire State Building and it locks fine. [it is the most consistent of all the channels]


But not for FOX--which also broadcasts from the ESB--I have to reorient the antenna sometimes 180 degrees to pick it up! Why is that?


If I want ABC--I have to aim it slightly north(since WABC is at the Conde Naste Building) and of course to pick up NBC---somewhere around there also.


So everytime I change the channel, I have to get up and re-aim the antenna slightly.


The mornings sometimes are better than night....it just must be everything from interference, atmospheric conditions, wi-fi networks..whatever.


Of course since it's indoors--it is easy for me to reorient...for you outdoor antenna types--good luck.


Maybe a rotor?


----------



## GRN

I was thinking of a rotor, but figured I would wait for the combiner before spending any kind of money to have it done (because there's no way I would climb my silly ass up on my chimney to do it







)


In all honesty, WABC has been the only station that is really giving me problems. Ironically enough, it was coming in perfect in the 70% range _before_ the supposed upgrade. Since then it barely breaks 60%. I don't get WNBC either, but no big deal. I do get WCBS, FOX, WPIX, WNJN and WFUT all nice and strong , and with football on WCBS and FOX, that's the main thing for me.


----------



## shappyss

I cant wait for the combiner. For the past two years I have tried everything until I got the biggest radio shack antenna they sold and figured that I couldn't get it in any better. I can get CBS 100%, Fox 100%, ABC 100%, NBC 80%-90%... The channel I want the most is WB and that comes in differently every night. Sometimes it works perfect without one pixelation during the show and other nights it wont lock onto the signal. I cannot wait for the combiner. I will be so happy when I can pick up all of the channels with a normal sized antenna!


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *A lot of us are waiting to see the glory of TPOL in HD. Even Doug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the purpose of 5-2 when 9 is available? Is 9 not available to people in NY?*



Slocko-


its worth shinnying up on the roof with a new antenna to aim at philly.


"Just do it"


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by shappyss_
> *I cant wait for the combiner. For the past two years I have tried everything until I got the biggest radio shack antenna they sold and figured that I couldn't get it in any better. I can get CBS 100%, Fox 100%, ABC 100%, NBC 80%-90%... The channel I want the most is WB and that comes in differently every night. Sometimes it works perfect without one pixelation during the show and other nights it wont lock onto the signal. I cannot wait for the combiner. I will be so happy when I can pick up all of the channels with a normal sized antenna!*



Speaking of that, has anyone heard anything about the progress of the combiner lately ? Everything seems to have gotten quiet. Any News ?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by shappyss_
> *I cant wait for the combiner. For the past two years I have tried everything until I got the biggest radio shack antenna they sold and figured that I couldn't get it in any better. The channel I want the most is WB and that comes in differently every night.*



WB is broadcasting on VHF channel 12. Did you get a UHF only antenna? If you're receiving NBC (at low power) you should still get WB.


----------



## Swisher

OK, I know it isn't HD, but it certainly is broadcasting something in NYC. I see these antennas on many of the avenues below 14th St. This one is on Seventh Ave, just south of 14th (WABC Antenna in the background). I'm not sure if they're in other parts of Manhattan. Anyone know what they are for, what they are transmitting? Something for NYPD? NYFD? MTA?


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Swisher_
> *OK, I know it isn't HD, but it certainly is broadcasting something in NYC. I see these antennas on many of the avenues below 14th St. This one is on Seventh Ave, just south of 14th (WABC Antenna in the background). I'm not sure if they're in other parts of Manhattan. Anyone know what they are for, what they are transmitting? Something for NYPD? NYFD? MTA?*




Are there fire or police call boxes on the poles? I can't tell from the picture.


----------



## rgrossman

Just a guess, but maybe they're for radio transmissions in the subways. Police? Fire? Cellphones (gasp!)?


----------



## anthonymoody

Hey all,

I'm a johnny come lately to this thread, having spent the lion's share of my time in the TWC NYC thread. I've searched back a few pages and I apologize but I'm too lzay to read all 156 pages to see if this has been brought up and asked/answered.


Anyway, I'm finally in a position to have my very own antenna on my very own roof. My roof is in the west village and believe it or not I can see the tip of the ESB tower when standing on my roof.


Based on that, I'm guessing I should get pretty good reception of all the channels. Is that a safe guess?


Also, any STB recommendations? (I'll still have TWC btw in any case).


Thanks!

TM


----------



## Swisher

Should be no problem for you. I get all NYC channels with an indoor Silver Sensor from 14th St., except PBS. On certain days I can get that with drop out. Remember that WPIX is on 12, so you'll need a UHF as well as VHF antenna.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Swisher_
> *Should be no problem for you. I get all NYC channels with an indoor Silver Sensor from 14th St., except PBS. On certain days I can get that with drop out. Remember that WPIX is on 12, so you'll need a UHF as well as VHF antenna.*



Did anyone get to see the DubyaBee's presentation of LOTR: Fellowship of the Rings in HD last night?? I rotated my antenna back towards Philly and picked up part of the broadcast....but I had signal strength issues (as I normally did with WPHL (17-1) when I used to toy with Philly stations).


I had some viewing issues that I wasn't sure came from my signal strength or from a source/station issue. A few times while I was watching the screen just went black for 2-3 seconds....with no pixelation before or right after the picture came back. Usually if I'm having signal strength issues my E86 will pixelate....and freeze the picture itself. These were just plain/jane BLACK screen issues.


----------



## anthonymoody

Thanks swisher!










TM


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Did anyone get to see the DubyaBee's presentation of LOTR: Fellowship of the Rings in HD last night?? I rotated my antenna back towards Philly and picked up part of the broadcast....but I had signal strength issues (as I normally did with WPHL (17-1) when I used to toy with Philly stations).
> 
> 
> I had some viewing issues that I wasn't sure came from my signal strength or from a source/station issue. A few times while I was watching the screen just went black for 2-3 seconds....with no pixelation before or right after the picture came back. Usually if I'm having signal strength issues my E86 will pixelate....and freeze the picture itself. These were just plain/jane BLACK screen issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I'm watching it tonight (flipping back and forth between that and MNF). 77% strength, picture looks good. No dropouts or any problems as I'm watching it.....


----------



## GRN

Can someone be so kind as to link the CBS-HD schedule for the NFL to see what games are in HD? I remember someone put the list up a while back but I'll be damned if I'm going to go wading through pages of posts to find it


----------



## trekkerj

Just use this for all the games on both networks.
http://www.directvsports.com/Schedul...LSundayTicket/


----------



## Infominister

Okay, a couple of dumb questions:


What's the difference between the "Enhanced" channel and the "HD" channel? Also, can we assume that any games that are on the HD channels will be in HD OTA?


----------



## shappyss

I dont have NFL Sunday Ticket but the enhanced has nothing to do with the picture quality, it just puts extra stats and info from other games on the side and bottom of the screen


----------



## UroDoc

Are they working on the combiner now??????


I've lost 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, and 7.2. Surprisingly the only channels I receive are 11.1, 11.2, and 11.3.


Does anyone know what's going on???


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Okay, a couple of dumb questions:
> 
> 
> What's the difference between the "Enhanced" channel and the "HD" channel? Also, can we assume that any games that are on the HD channels will be in HD OTA?*



Enhanced channels have the scoreboard from all the games taking about 50% of your screen.


HD channels (as the name implies) are Hi-Def channels.


Games that are on the HD channels (local games) will be on HD OTA as well.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *Are they working on the combiner now??????
> 
> 
> I've lost 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, and 7.2. Surprisingly the only channels I receive are 11.1, 11.2, and 11.3.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what's going on???*



I don't know, but today I suddenly picked up 41-1, WXTV-DT, which I had _never_ been able to get previously. Hooray, another Spanish channel that I have no use for!










Oddly enough, 53-1, WFUT, suddenly changed to 68-1 and its stayed that way since this morning.


----------



## vinnyv07

For some reason all of my DT ch's are coming in with a little stronger sig ...but I have a feeling its because of the leaves that are falling from the big trees around me. But I'll take the extra sig.....the only ch's Im having trouble with are the WB and WNET....NBC comes and goes.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *has anyone heard anything about the progress of the combiner lately ?*



The first shipment from Maine has arrived in NYC.


----------



## Gary Quiring

Last night was another disappointment for me in Monmouth County. I could not pull a solid signal for 7-1 forcing me to watch LOST in SD. I have been having all sorts of issues with 2-1 and 7-1 for the last week or so. Normally 2-1 and 7-1 are perfect. 4-1 is still my biggest disappointment. But luckily D* carries it.


----------



## sting0r

How many more shipments till its ready?


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *Last night was another disappointment for me in Monmouth County. I could not pull a solid signal for 7-1 forcing me to watch LOST in SD. I have been having all sorts of issues with 2-1 and 7-1 for the last week or so. Normally 2-1 and 7-1 are perfect. 4-1 is still my biggest disappointment. But luckily D* carries it.*




Why don't you watch 2-1 on D*?


----------



## vinnyv07

I have Directv and I feel even though CBSDT and NBCDT look great via Direct...that OTA is way better quality. But I can only get NBCDT through Direct....for now.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *Last night was another disappointment for me in Monmouth County. I could not pull a solid signal for 7-1 forcing me to watch LOST in SD. I have been having all sorts of issues with 2-1 and 7-1 for the last week or so. Normally 2-1 and 7-1 are perfect. 4-1 is still my biggest disappointment. But luckily D* carries it.*




Gary: I watched CSI and Without a Trace last night on 2-1 off the air. Came in good and strong; no problems. I am just a few miles up the road from you in East Brunswick.


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sting0r_
> *How many more shipments till its ready?*



2,357 more and we're done......just kidding! That's my frustration talking.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *Gary: I watched CSI and Without a Trace last night on 2-1 off the air. Came in good and strong; no problems. I am just a few miles up the road from you in East Brunswick.*



Last night (Friday) was another confusing/frustrating night. Not only did I have problems pulling Jag via OTA but the D* feed was showing a screen apologizing due to technical difficulties. I finally finished it via the SD feed.


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *The first shipment from Maine has arrived in NYC.*



Man, I hope the guy who wrote that the remaining shipments will be snowed-in in Maine till the May thaw was wrong...


But given the combiner's history that is what will happen.


----------



## vinnyv07

I hope Im wrong but I dont expect to see the combiner active this year. Does anyone else? Despite what people say about time periods for the combiner , I believe nothing until its up and running.


----------



## Ken Ross

Yup, given its history, I'd say anything in 05 is bliss. To call this a 'saga' is an understatement.


----------



## slocko

the first shipment was the special wrench needed for the 1000 screws. after this, one screw will be shipped out every month.


i hope my great grand children read this thread to me once i can't see anymore so i can find out the status of the combiner











> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *The first shipment from Maine has arrived in NYC.*


----------



## plasmafan

I just connected my receiver last night to my UHF amateur radio beam thru my 20 db wideband preamp. I'm in Huntington , north shore in Suffolk county. Its good to hear they are working on the ESB combiner. This is what I'm getting now:


WLIW21


WLIW-DT


WXTV-DT


WCBS-HD


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *For some reason all of my DT ch's are coming in with a little stronger sig ...but I have a feeling its because of the leaves that are falling from the big trees around me. But I'll take the extra sig.....the only ch's Im having trouble with are the WB and WNET....NBC comes and goes.*




vinny, I first started receiving OTA HDTV signals last winter. NBC was fine for me half the time. When there was snow on the ground I almost had it all of the time. When the weather turned warm it was gone UNTIL just recently when it got cold again???


I don't worry much about NBC because I get it from DirecTV now, but the OTA looked ~much~ better so I looked forward to future developments in better reception for our area.


Harry Dugan

Admin at http://www.hdtvforum.com


----------



## rgrossman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *When there was snow on the ground I almost had it all of the time. When the weather turned warm it was gone UNTIL just recently when it got cold again???*



Snow on the ground? Or was it trees without leaves?


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *The first shipment from Maine has arrived in NYC.*



Your post correlates with the pulse of activity I recently received on Friday from NBC which stated...



> Quote:
> Sorry about the delay getting back to you. We're probably 5 to 6 weeks away from the combiner being in place and ready to go. Construction IS now taking place on the room and the radio station that had been in the way has been fully relocated. The actual combiner is scheduled to be delivered to the building in pieces in the next week.



I am not getting my hopes up that "ready to go" actually means go, but I pray that the momentum will make it so.


I'm sorry to say that my last post on this thread was waaaay off and I apologize for that. I am just a messenger. But in all actuality, NBC has had their act together...the ESB Combiner project was too unpredictable.


I'm looking forward to the day that my OTA-HD is so plentiful that I can cancel my DirecTV SD-HD locals and use that money for a moca-latte!










Harry Dugan

Admin at http://www.hdtvforum.com 
_...see our daily HDTV news._


----------



## John Chu

Is it just me...or did WNBC just remap to 28-1, and 28-2?


Weird...


Up till now it has been on 4-1 and 4-2...


Samsung T-161.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *Is it just me...or did WNBC just remap to 28-1, and 28-2?
> 
> 
> Weird...
> 
> 
> Up till now it has been on 4-1 and 4-2...
> 
> 
> Samsung T-161.*



4-2 is now a weather sub-channel. For my E86 STB's it's still 4-1 and 4-2...although 28-1 and 28-2 will remap to 4-1/2 if I input it.


Since I don't watch much IF ANY HD from NBC I think a local weather channel is a pretty neat feature (especially since D* doesn't provide "local weather") although I wonder how much it sucks from the HD presentation.. When I turned my antenna away from Philly over a year ago I actually missed the Philly ABC's weather subchannel---which at that time was just a large scale radar map of the Philly/Jersey area.


----------



## easternncnewswat

4-2 is now NBC Weather Plus, new digital weather service designed to compete with the original The Weather Channel. You can read more about it at mediaweek.com or tvweek.com. I saw it initially about a month ago as the O&O in RDU was working out some kinks in their system before they pick it up. Looks pretty good from a stand point that the Weather Channel never really shows weather anymore. *lol*


----------



## dapope




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *Is it just me...or did WNBC just remap to 28-1, and 28-2?
> 
> 
> Weird...
> 
> 
> Up till now it has been on 4-1 and 4-2...
> 
> 
> Samsung T-161.*



Im getting 80 plus signal on 4-1, 4-2 , and no picture using an hd tivo, if i go manually to 28-1 , i get nothing







, and on my dtc 100 it still comes in on 4-1


----------



## trend1

Same here 4-1 and 4-2 signal but no picture










Tony


----------



## jaypb

Came across this article today:


NBC launches digital weather channel

Tuesday, November 16 2004, 04:33 GMT -- by James Welsh


Capacity on local NBC stations' digital multiplexes is being used to launch an all-weather channel from the network.


Many local stations in the US use part of their digital multiplex to broadcast weather information, ranging from a simple Doppler radar screen to fully-featured weather information channels. NBC's "Weather Plus" network combines national and local weather programming: an "L-Bar" display wrapped around the screen will carry live local weather data, with the network's programming comprising national weather updates and cut-ins from meteorologists at local affiliates.


http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds17003.html


----------



## dm145

I noticed 4-2 in my guide last night but it was just snow. No pun intended.


----------



## trend1

Is anybody not receiving WNBC-DT 4-1 OTA? I've never had a problem receiving WNBC-DT 4-1 until last night and today (as of 4:00 pm).


Thanks, Tony


----------



## markhout

No NBC here in Park Slope, Brooklyn, either. ABC is difficult to receive as well.


----------



## ilkevinli

No NBC 4-1 in S.I. on HD TIVO. Before yesterday I was getting it at 100%.


----------



## Scott G

You have to try to get it on 28-1 and 28-2. For some reason when they put on 4-2, they changed the PSIP. I can manually tune it on 28-1/28-2, but get nothing on 4-1.


----------



## ilkevinli

Acording to my Tivo I am getting a 90-95% signal on channel 28 (4-1 NBC) but I get no picture. Also when I try to tune to 28-1, the Tivo will not remap correctly, so I can't view it that way either.












> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *You have to try to get it on 28-1 and 28-2. For some reason when they put on 4-2, they changed the PSIP. I can manually tune it on 28-1/28-2, but get nothing on 4-1.*


----------



## trend1




> Quote:
> You have to try to get it on 28-1 and 28-2. For some reason when they put on 4-2, they changed the PSIP. I can manually tune it on 28-1/28-2, but get nothing on 4-1.



Hi Scott! I just did what you suggested...I'm getting a signal but no picture, are you getting a picture? Why would NBC want 28-1 and not the proper 4-1?


Thanks, Tony


----------



## ilkevinli

Anyone have a phone number for the engineers to report the problem ?


----------



## kcn823

I'm not getting any picture on 4-1 or 28-1 with my HDTivo. Are others seeing a picture on 4-1 or 28-1 using a different receiver?


----------



## Morg111

No picture on either channel as well.


----------



## UroDoc

4-1 and 4-2 coming in with no problems Westbury, LI, NY. Mitsubishi Promise Module, ChannelMaster 4248 antenna, CM7777 preamp, and CM9521a rotator.


----------



## ilkevinli

Are you sure your receiving NYC NBC ???




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *4-1 and 4-2 coming in with no problems Westbury, LI, NY. Mitsubishi Promise Module, ChannelMaster 4248 antenna, CM7777 preamp, and CM9521a rotator.*


----------



## SnellKrell

4.1 and 4.2 back on the air. Noticed that 4.2's audio and video are out of synch.


4.1 was not interupted on DirecTV's feed - the problem was that nothing was being transmitted from the stick atop the G.E. Building.


Gary


----------



## trend1

Yup...NBC-DT 4-1 and that new 4-2 weather channel with the lip synch problem.


----------



## speedlaw

For the general group:


I am located about 7 miles north of the Tappan Zee bridge, near the Hudson river. I have a line of sight with NYC, and use a Radio shack Fringe antenna.


HDTV received is as follows


CBS-always

NBC-since the trees dropped leaves, moreso, but not always-usually less than 50%, but the box will try to pull a signal. Lotsa pixellation.

FOX-always

Channel 9-always

WPIX always

ABC- always, both channels, 7.1 and 7.2


I've tried PBS, and no go on all the allocated channels, even with a specific search.


I'm using the $200 wal mart box, feeding a Sony WEGA 4:3 set via the Pb Pr Yb inputs.


It rocks ! You can tell a real HDTV source, and when it's not. The Tonight show, one night, went from HD to SD after a commercial, and you can tell the difference, even with a "normal" set.


I get a perfect analog signal on all analog channels, so that I get such good HD is partly location and partly overkill antenna. I would suggest that most with a "reception problem" break down and mount the best antenna you can.


While I can't comment as to other STB's, I am happy with the wally world box, and I don't like walmart. The box seemed to be a loss leader so I thought it was OK.


----------



## dapope

Gary , i dont think thats correct, i was and am able to get 4.1,4.2 using my rca dtc-100 ota for past few days, but, the hd tivo up untill a few minutes ago would not.


----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ilkevinli_
> *Are you sure your receiving NYC NBC ???*



Antenna is aimed at NYC approximately (265 degrees). Same orientation that I receive 2-1, 4-1, 4-2, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1, 7-2, 11-1, 11-2, 11-3. 28-1 remaps to 4-1, 28-2 remaps to 4-2.


----------



## Jonathann_K

No OTA NBC 4-1 in Manhattan =( Before it was coming in just fine. Anyone know whats going on?


----------



## UroDoc

Just checked again. Still receiving NBC 4-1 and 4-2 in Westbury.


----------



## vin smith

No NBC HD in Babylon!


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *Your post correlates with the pulse of activity I recently received on Friday from NBC which stated...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not getting my hopes up that "ready to go" actually means go, but I pray that the momentum will make it so.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to say that my last post on this thread was waaaay off and I apologize for that. I am just a messenger. But in all actuality, NBC has had their act together...the ESB Combiner project was too unpredictable.
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to the day that my OTA-HD is so plentiful that I can cancel my DirecTV SD-HD locals and use that money for a moca-latte!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dugan
> 
> Admin at http://www.hdtvforum.com
> ...see our daily HDTV news.*



from what i just heard a few days ago, the combiner itself is in Manhatten being stored, and will be moved to ESB this thursda nite...now how long before it gets up and running thats anybodys guess


----------



## Trip in VA

Well, it's that time of year again.


No, not football season, Thanksgiving. And for Thanksgiving, as with last year, I will be making a trip from my home here in Virginia to Fair Lawn, NJ.


I was kinda hoping the combiner would be installed by Thanksgiving (I'll be arriving Wednesday evening). Doesn't sound like that's going to happen.


So, since Easter (which I think is the last time I was in the area), how much has changed? I think WPXN-DT came on the air, WFUT-DT powered up and began remapping properly, and WABC-DT powered up more (but they were receivable before anyway), but is that it? If it is, that's very disappointing.


Last year, I got:


2-1 1080i CBS WCBS-DT *Strong*

4-1 1080i NBC WNBC-DT *Very Weak*

4-2 480i ??? WNBC-DT

5-1 480p Fox WNYW-DT *Strong*

5-2 480i UPN WNYW-DT

7-1 720p ABC WABC-DT *Strong*

7-2 480i ABC WABC-DT

29-2 480i Rel WFME-DT *DXed*

29-3 480i Test WFME-DT

50-1 480i PBS WNJN-DT *Strong* (And whatever subchannels)

53-1 480i TFT WFUT-DT *Very Weak*


And also got weak signals that were not usable from digital channels 12 (WPIX-DT), 40 (WXTV-DT), and 48 (WRNN-DT).


Looks to me I'll only be able to add 31-1 and any subchannels, 5-1 will be 720p instead of 480p, and there'll be a stronger signal on 68-1. Not very impressive for the number one market.


I think this is very disappointing for the #1 market, considering this is where all except UPN are O&Os and cover the most people. The fact that WNBC can't even get a decent digital on the air (why don't they just go to the Conde Naste with WABC-DT?) is just sad. The combiner shouldn't even be an excuse. They should have had new digitals on the air faster than they did.


But anyway, am I forgetting anything in my observations? Has WNYE-DT begun doing actual programming again yet (since they started doing COFDM data transmissions after 9/11)? Have any other stations (I heard something about WTBY-DT powering up) boosted power? What's the estimated completed date for the combiner?


Thanks for any help.


EDIT: Also, looking down the FCC database, it appears that WNJU-DT has an STA to broadcast from the WFME-DT site near East Orange, NJ. Can anyone receive this broadcast?


EDIT2: WPIX-DT has a for a 160 kW STA from the ESB on channel 33. WMBC-DT has applied for a CP to do 1000 kW from the WNJN-DT site. WWOR-DT has a 170 kW STA from the ESB. WABC-DT has a 219 kW something (not an STA, but I'm not sure what DX means in that context) on the ESB.


- Trip


----------



## cpufixer1

Hello everyone, Just found this forum. I just bought a cheap RCA antenna at Home Depot and Samsung SIR-165, I hooked it up and get everything great everything except WNBC. Without going back through these hundreds of posts, can someone give me the reason that NBC does not come in ? According to all the antenna sites they are at the some location as most of the rest.


----------



## JoeCraw

NBC has the weakest signal of the 4 major networks (CBS, FOX, ABC are all stronger). I get NBC in Plainview, but it is not the steadiest signal. I believe the NBC signal comes from the GE Building and you may have to play with your antenna direction a little to find the sweat spot for all the channels. The ESB is the point most south, then the Conde Nast is in the middle. Move your antenna to get ABC as stong as possible and then see if you get NBC.


Good Luck,

Joe


PS I also have an Signal Amplifier on my antenna. You may need one too if you don't already have it.


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by speedlaw_
> *For the general group:
> 
> 
> I am located about 7 miles north of the Tappan Zee bridge, near the Hudson river. I have a line of sight with NYC, and use a Radio shack Fringe antenna.
> 
> 
> HDTV received is as follows
> 
> 
> CBS-always
> 
> NBC-since the trees dropped leaves, moreso, but not always-usually less than 50%, but the box will try to pull a signal. Lotsa pixellation.
> 
> FOX-always
> 
> Channel 9-always
> 
> WPIX always
> 
> ABC- always, both channels, 7.1 and 7.2
> 
> 
> I've tried PBS, and no go on all the allocated channels, even with a specific search.
> 
> 
> I'm using the $200 wal mart box, feeding a Sony WEGA 4:3 set via the Pb Pr Yb inputs.
> 
> 
> It rocks ! You can tell a real HDTV source, and when it's not. The Tonight show, one night, went from HD to SD after a commercial, and you can tell the difference, even with a "normal" set.
> 
> 
> I get a perfect analog signal on all analog channels, so that I get such good HD is partly location and partly overkill antenna. I would suggest that most with a "reception problem" break down and mount the best antenna you can.
> 
> 
> While I can't comment as to other STB's, I am happy with the wally world box, and I don't like walmart. The box seemed to be a loss leader so I thought it was OK.*



Wow, that's pretty good reception you get. I'm 17 miles west of NYC an get the same minus WPIX. I'm astonsihed that you get it.


If you have a antenna with rotor, aim it some degrees to the right (westernly). Montclair NJ seems to put out a strong signal. On days they provide DTV for 50.1, 50.2, 50.3 and 50.4. From 8p-12a they provide HDTV on 50.5. _Sometimes the channels move to 51 or 52 I think._ But don't kill yourself...the HD programming "when on" is only so so.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Is there any word on when or if UPN in will go HD in NYC? I was really hoping to watch _Enterprise_ and even _Veronica Mars_ in HD.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Is there any word on when or if UPN in will go HD in NYC? I was really hoping to watch Enterprise and even Veronica Mars in HD.*



When the combiner is finished!


----------



## GoldenBoy

Great, so I've got another year or two?


----------



## Calabs

It depends on the weather in Maine!


----------



## muadib

Where does ABC broadcast in NYC? I can't get either channel, and I would love to see Lost in HD.


----------



## Manatus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by muadib_
> *Where does ABC broadcast in NYC? I can't get either channel, and I would love to see Lost in HD.*



WABC-DT broadcasts from the antenna on the top of 4 Times Square (the Conde-Nast Building), at W. 42nd St. and 7th Ave. As for _Lost_ in HD, the high-point during the first episode (the survivor being inhaled by a jet engine) was worthwhile, but it's been downhill ever since.


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Manatus_
> *WABC-DT broadcasts from the antenna on the top of 4 Times Square (the Conde-Nast Building), at W. 42nd St. and 7th Ave. As for Lost in HD, the high-point during the first episode (the survivor being inhaled by a jet engine) was worthwhile, but it's been downhill ever since.*



I disagree the shows been great but let's stay on topic.


----------



## ilkevinli

Is NBC down again ??? It went back up last night and now its down again


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC 4.1 and 4.2 coming in loud and clear.

4.2 is simulcasting 4.1's programming - no

terrible weather channel!


Gary


----------



## andrewjnyc

I spoke with WCBS engineer Steve Pear today for an article I'm writing, and he said all the components of the combiner are here and the goal is to get it online no later than 12/31.


----------



## ilkevinli

Now its back up again. I dont know whats going on. This is very frustrating !!!



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *WNBC 4.1 and 4.2 coming in loud and clear.
> 
> 4.2 is simulcasting 4.1's programming - no
> 
> terrible weather channel!
> 
> 
> Gary*


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by andrewjnyc_
> *I spoke with WCBS engineer Steve Pear today for an article I'm writing, and he said all the components of the combiner are here and the goal is to get it online no later than 12/31.*



Wanna bet??


----------



## George Thompson

Steve is the VP of Engineering and on top of the project that he described as the "Project from Hell". Believe him. He is also part of the NBC alumni group at CBS.

George


----------



## Mach5

Hi,


I live 2.5 miles south of ESB, Lower E. Side, I can't get 2.1(cbs) and 4.1(nbc) at all. I can only recieve 5.1-2 (fox), 7.1-2 (abc) and sometime 11.1-2 (wb). I have medium range direction antenna on the roof (5 stories building) and Sony TV with ATSC tuner built in. My question is if I get a TV antenna amplifier, will it help?? Recommendation on which type to buy??


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Steve is the VP of Engineering and on top of the project that he described as the "Project from Hell". Believe him. He is also part of the NBC alumni group at CBS.
> 
> George*



I would not doubt Steve means well and believes what he says but things have ways of going astray. 12/31 is ALREADY beyond the last estimate. The target is constantly moving. Projects like this are nearly impossible to track and predict. When I see all the stations on my set I will believe the completion date.


----------



## lirong

I did a quick search and didnt see any discussion...


Was anyone able to check out Lord of the Rings in HD a few weeks back (I think it was on WB, either that or UPN).


How was the quality? I live in White Plains, NY and still have no ability to receive their HD broadcast with my roof antenna. Pathetic.


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mach5_
> *Hi,
> 
> 
> I live 2.5 miles south of ESB, Lower E. Side, I can't get 2.1(cbs) and 4.1(nbc) at all. I can only recieve 5.1-2 (fox), 7.1-2 (abc) and sometime 11.1-2 (wb). I have medium range direction antenna on the roof (5 stories building) and Sony TV with ATSC tuner built in. My question is if I get a TV antenna amplifier, will it help?? Recommendation on which type to buy??*



Hello,

I wouldn't suggest an amplifier for your location. Mast mounted amps are easily overloaded in strong signal areas and are usually better suited for suburban or rural areas. In your case I would suggest turning the antenna in different directions to see what changes. A rotor certainly makes this easier, but if you find a position that gets all stations you probably won't use the rotor much after that.

Make sure you try all directions while adjusting. You may find that pointing at a nearby building South of you is better than aiming straight at the ESB.

In my location, I'm receiving WNJN with the antenna pointing at Garden City LI. The signal is bouncing off an apartment building a couple of blocks away. Have fun!


-Phil


----------



## andrewjnyc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by lirong_
> *I did a quick search and didnt see any discussion...
> 
> 
> Was anyone able to check out Lord of the Rings in HD a few weeks back (I think it was on WB, either that or UPN).
> 
> 
> How was the quality? I live in White Plains, NY and still have no ability to receive their HD broadcast with my roof antenna. Pathetic.*



TNT will be showing THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING in HD sometime in early-mid December, so if you have access to the channel via cable, you'll be able to catch it.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by lirong_
> *I did a quick search and didnt see any discussion...
> 
> 
> Was anyone able to check out Lord of the Rings in HD a few weeks back (I think it was on WB, either that or UPN).
> 
> 
> How was the quality? I live in White Plains, NY and still have no ability to receive their HD broadcast with my roof antenna. Pathetic.*



I caught bits and pieces of it (since it was on opposite the ESPN Sunday Night Game and MNF; talk about bad scheduling). The quality ranged from very good to awesome in some shots, but I didn't catch enough of it to really pass judgement on it.......


Also I think someone posted that TNT will be showing LOTR: FOTR in HD. TNT-_HD_ will be showing it in high-def. You will need that specific channel to see it in HD; regular TNT will not have it.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, would you believe it? General Electric/NBC has done it again!

No digital broadcasting of channel 4 - no 4.1 or that incredible waste of

bandwidth "NBC Weather Minus."

They can't blame this this on the combiner - DirecTV's feed of 4.1 is not working either.

All brought to you, or in this case, not brought to you by the people who

bought RCA/NBC to only run it into the ground!


The General is spinning!


Gary


----------



## Manatus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Well, would you believe it? General Electric/NBC has done it again!
> 
> No digital broadcasting of channel 4 - no 4.1 or that incredibly waste of
> 
> bandwidth "NBC Weather Minus."
> 
> They can't blame this this on the combiner - DirecTV's feed of 4.1 is not working either.
> 
> All brought to you, or in this case, not brought to you by the people who
> 
> bought RCA/NBC to only run it into the ground!
> 
> 
> The General is spinning!
> 
> 
> Gary*



As of 2:15 pm today, OTA 4.1 and 4.2 are off the air in Manhattan, but 704 (4.1) and 731 (4.2) are coming in fine on TWCNYC.


----------



## SnellKrell

Very strange!


WNBC is able to feed TWCNY but not DirecTV and the antenna atop of the same building where master control is located.


Gary


----------



## Scott G

WNBC-DT is also coming in on Cablevision, but not OTA. They have a fiber optic feed of the channel to the cable companies, but the OTA signal has been on and off lately.


----------



## oingo9

Still can't find 4-1 , tried to reload on 28, strong signal but only 4-2 using my BEV6100. At least the Seattle local news in HD


----------



## SnellKrell

They're back!


4.1. and 4.2 have returned O-T-A and via DirecTV.


Unfortunately, the hiatus did nothing to improve

"Weather Minus!" Still so poorly executed -

still out of synch.


You don't put something on the air until it's ready -

and especially in the country's biggest market.


Gary


----------



## Jonathann_K

Its 9:20 PM now and I am getting 0% on NBC 4-1, 100% on all of the other OTA channels, with a direct view of ESB. Are you sure OTA is back on?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, they are there at 9:24 p.m.


Gary


----------



## oingo9

i'm still getting only 4-2


----------



## cpto




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *They're back!
> 
> 
> You don't put something on the air until it's ready -
> 
> and especially in the country's biggest market.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Unfortunately, in the country's biggest market, you're also not really interested in pushing HDTV when you know that you might lose your original frequency to alternative services.


...And so it goes...


C


----------



## berniec

combiner update


..the birds are chirping in my ear and they are telling me that the combiner is in pieces at ESB right now and a technician from dielectric will be in town starting tomorow to start work on gettin it all together


----------



## Ken Ross

You're sure that little birdie isn't on drugs?


----------



## berniec

i trust this bird....its getting its info from someone directly involved with one of the stations...


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *You're sure that little birdie isn't on drugs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I will need to be on drugs if I have to wait much longer.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

Forgive me if this has been asked before, but when the combiner is done, will all/most of the stations be on it right away, or will they come online one at a time?


----------



## dturturro

I asked the same question (quite) a few pages ago. The answer I got was that all, except WNET will come on-line at once. Apparently it makes more sense logistically. That said, the next logical question is can one of the networks throw a wrench into the works or is this now up to the engineers/techs doing the install?


----------



## trend1




> Quote:
> technician from dielectric will be in town starting tomorow to start work on gettin it all together




Not today


----------



## trend1

Saw this truck outside the Garden Sunday (11-21) for the Knicks Cavaliers game.


Tony


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trend1_
> *Saw this truck outside the Garden Sunday (11-21) for the Knicks Cavaliers game.
> 
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I'll start by saying I have D* and do not have cable.


Call me crazy, but I *think* the game was on NBA-TV in HD....so I assume they were providing it in HD for NBA-TV. I noticed after the NFL games ended yesterday that my D* receiver had Channel 94 listed as "NFL--Cavaliers at Knicks". 94 is in the NFL HD channel area. When I tuned to the channel it said "Game is unavailable in your area". And then I went to MSG (621) and noticed the game was starting at 7:30. I was going to check the HD programming area to see if it was indeed an NBA HD broadcast that was "blacked out" in the NYC area for D* subs.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trend1_
> *Not today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Just so some people do not get the wrong impression, the combiner will be installed indoors so weather should not be a factor.


----------



## trend1




> Quote:
> Just so some people do not get the wrong impression, the combiner will be installed indoors so weather should not be a factor.



Bogney Baux, Some one posted a picture of the combiner that looked a bunch of pipes, I was under the impression that this was for outside the building not inside it. Can you educate me on this mysterious combiner thing.


Thanks, Tony


----------



## grodgers

Is there a site that shows:


Broadcaster/Affiliation/power/location?


AntennaWeb.org has 2 of the 4, but doesn't list transmitter power or location (it does give pointing direction though)


Also, AntennaWeb.org shows that my OTA should point at 105 degrees from my location, but if I go to other sites, and calculate direction from my house to the Empire State Building (using lat/lon calculators), I come up with 95 degrees. Interesting... Unless AntennaWeb is assuming that the points of transmission are still at the WTC - (we're talking ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC) which totally make up for the 10 degree difference... Or maybe that geocode information (lat/long) actually uses true north rather than magnetic north?


----------



## michaelk

no engineer here- but they apparently put that thing-a-ma-bob with all the pipes (AKA the pope organ) in a room inside the building just below the antenna.


From what i can gather- then all the stations feed their signal (via cables?) to the pipe organ. THen the pipe organ feeds the antenna (via another cable?)


I guess cable runs have to be kept to a minimum- because they are real particular about which room the thing had to go in?


Peppered throughout the last 75 pages or so are comments about some 4th rate spanish AM radio station previously occupying the "magic room" and they refused to move until recently- hence one of the many delays....


of course - you guys who know fell free to correct and or add to that. As I said- no engineer - just an interested reader....


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *Is there a site that shows:
> 
> 
> Broadcaster/Affiliation/power/location?
> 
> 
> AntennaWeb.org has 2 of the 4, but doesn't list transmitter power or location (it does give pointing direction though)
> 
> 
> Also, AntennaWeb.org shows that my OTA should point at 105 degrees from my location, but if I go to other sites, and calculate direction from my house to the Empire State Building (using lat/lon calculators), I come up with 95 degrees. Interesting... Unless AntennaWeb is assuming that the points of transmission are still at the WTC - (we're talking ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC) which totally make up for the 10 degree difference... Or maybe that geocode information (lat/long) actually uses true north rather than magnetic north?*



You'll have to dig out your latitude/longitude and magnetic deviation, but I wrote a little app that provides all that info about stations for you:

http://www.2150.com/broadcast


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *You'll have to dig out your latitude/longitude and magnetic deviation, but I wrote a little app that provides all that info about stations for you:
> 
> http://www.2150.com/broadcast *



A) Thanks for moving this where it belonged - I shall try to stay on-topic going forward!


B) That's exactly the data (and more) that I was looking for. I'm going with a Yagi from AD (hope it comes BEFORE Thanksgiving) and it looks like everything I want to receive is within 1 or 2 degrees - I should be able to find a sweet spot and not use a rotator.


C) On the search results, in the transmitter antenna column, is there any kind of assumed scale? Can anything be gleaned from that data other than the shape of the broadcast signal?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *C) On the search results, in the transmitter antenna column, is there any kind of assumed scale? Can anything be gleaned from that data other than the shape of the broadcast signal?*



It's mapped from the FCC antenna data and I'm not really sure of the method that's used to compute those values or how it translates to real world numbers. I always assumed it was representative of a percentage of the signal strength, which probably suffices as a general guide (i.e., if it extended 50% from the center to the edge, that'd be 50% of the signal in that direction versus the 100% you'd get if it weren't directional, etc). Until someone says different, I'd use that as a mutlipler (on a scale of 0 to 1) of the ERP to see an effective ERP towards you.


Probably good enough to make educated guesses that way.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I asked the same question (quite) a few pages ago. The answer I got was that all, except WNET will come on-line at once. Apparently it makes more sense logistically. That said, the next logical question is can one of the networks throw a wrench into the works or is this now up to the engineers/techs doing the install?*



Thanks for the response. Hopefully, it is just up to the engineers now to install it.


----------



## George Thompson

Hopefully there was no water damage to the 'pipeorgan' when a contractor hit a water main up there last week and caused extensive flooding. I seem to remember brass or copper being used for the pipe on some versions so they shouldn't rust.

Tuning slugs may get junk on them and make it sticky to turn screws.


I would guess that the transmitter feeds may be 6" hardline at that power level. More plumbing which means straight paths and right angle bends. Not familiar with Dielectric feedline, but I grew up in Orland Park, Il and knew most of the engineers at Andrew. (I used Heliax exclusively on my ham radio antennas).


Looks good for antenna upgrade either way.

GT


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *I'll start by saying I have D* and do not have cable.
> 
> 
> Call me crazy, but I *think* the game was on NBA-TV in HD....so I assume they were providing it in HD for NBA-TV. I noticed after the NFL games ended yesterday that my D* receiver had Channel 94 listed as "NFL--Cavaliers at Knicks". 94 is in the NFL HD channel area. When I tuned to the channel it said "Game is unavailable in your area". And then I went to MSG (621) and noticed the game was starting at 7:30. I was going to check the HD programming area to see if it was indeed an NBA HD broadcast that was "blacked out" in the NYC area for D* subs.*



The game was being broadcast in HD on NBA-TV. Anyone who has the channel outside of the New York market could see the game. I have DISH, so the game was blacked out for everyone in the NY area on NBA-TV. Cablevision (which owns MSG and FSNY) owns the broadcast rights for Knicks telecasts and as such broadcast Knicks games in HD only on the MSG channel. As a result, only people who subscribe to Cablevision (cable) are able to see the MSG channel in HD. D* cannot and DISH cannot. This holds true for any Knicks broadcasts on ESPN-HD, TNT-HD, etc. The game would be blacked out on those channels and the only way to see it would be on MSG, and the only way to see _that_ in HD would be if you subsrcibe to Cablevision.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *The game was being broadcast in HD on NBA-TV. Anyone who has the channel outside of the New York market could see the game. I have DISH, so the game was blacked out for everyone in the NY area on NBA-TV. Cablevision (which owns MSG and FSNY) owns the broadcast rights for Knicks telecasts and as such broadcast Knicks games in HD only on the MSG channel. As a result, only people who subscribe to Cablevision (cable) are able to see the MSG channel in HD. D* cannot and DISH cannot. This holds true for any Knicks broadcasts on ESPN-HD, TNT-HD, etc. The game would be blacked out on those channels and the only way to see it would be on MSG, and the only way to see that in HD would be if you subsrcibe to Cablevision.*



I would imagine that you could see the Knicks in HD on ESPN/TNT if the game was a national exclusive game (as opposed to regional). Kind of like when the Yankees are the Sunday Night game of the week on ESPN.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrisb3_
> *I would imagine that you could see the Knicks in HD on ESPN/TNT if the game was a national exclusive game (as opposed to regional). Kind of like when the Yankees are the Sunday Night game of the week on ESPN.*



That's correct; that would be the exception to the rule. It's rare, though. And, like you said, it would only apply if the game was the _national_ game. If not, it wouldn't be shown, since there are many occassions when ESPN and YES/MSG have been simulcasting the game (for example, on a weeknight) and the ESPN feed is blacked out. I would estimate that maybe 5% of the time the game would not be blacked out. The other 95% of the time it is.


Honestly, though, with the state of the Knicks as it is, does anybody really care? Personally, I would rather watch a great team in SD than a horrible team in HD


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Honestly, though, with the state of the Knicks as it is, does anybody really care? Personally, I would rather watch a great team in SD than a horrible team in HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Very True.










About the other bit, I was just clarifying the possibilities (ok, the only possiblilty) of having a Knicks game in HD for us D* folks.


----------



## ghostman

This is a forum for discussing New York City Over The Air High Definition reception.


There are separate forums for cable reception from Time Warner, RCN, Comcast, and CableVision. There are also separate forums for discussing programming.


Please direct your posts to the correct audience.


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Hopefully there was no water damage to the 'pipeorgan' when a contractor hit a water main up there last week and caused extensive flooding. I seem to remember brass or copper being used for the pipe on some versions so they shouldn't rust.
> 
> Tuning slugs may get junk on them and make it sticky to turn screws.
> 
> 
> GT*



What makes me want to say "Here we go again"?


----------



## Jonathann_K

As of 9:40 PM tonight in Manhattan, I am still not getting 4-1 or 4-2 OTA. Every other channel comes in 93-100%. Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## SnellKrell

10:04 p.m. - both stations coming in OTA.


Gary


----------



## MSaccardi

I get 4-1 on MyHD but Expressvu will not lock in signal


----------



## n2lak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MSaccardi_
> *I get 4-1 on MyHD but Expressvu will not lock in signal*



4.1 and 4.2 are both up @ 4:40 pm


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else have issues with the "surround" sound last night on the MNF broadcast OTA?? My receiver was only picking up the sound from the front left/right speakers....with NOTHING out of the center and the Rears.


I checked the programming forum...but there seemed to be a cluster **** of issues nationally there....I didn't see anyone from the NYC area posting there.


Or, maybe no one was watching locally......


----------



## MSaccardi

Same here--it was ok on satellite channels but ota it was as you have described it. It was also weak since the volume had to be turned way up


----------



## CynKennard

WABC-DTV always broadcasts 5.1 channel sound. Most of the time when the sound is monophonic as during the news or stereo as with most SD programs and probably football last night, they put the sound only in the left and right front channels. Receivers expect that with 5.1 channel sound the channels will have the correct distribution of sound and so don't switch to Pro Logic and produce a center channel. WNBC handles this switch just fine. I have to switch my receiver to analog mode on WABC to get the sound processed by Pro Logic. It's an extra nuisance. I wish that WABC would wake up and handle their sound correctly.


Cynthia


----------



## hphase

A byproduct of WABC always hard-coding their audio as 5.1 is that you can't manually switch a PL2 decoder into the circuit. Even on stereo programs, the receiver logic says that it is receiving a 5.1 signal, even though there's nothing but L/R in the feed. Normally, there is no need to PL2 "decode" a 5.1 program!


NBC uses metadata to switch their audio encoder, and home receivers can be set to automatically insert a PL2 decoder when receiving a two-channel signal. This keeps the stereo commercials from sounding "bad" in comparison to the 5.1 program that it airs inside. When NBC sends a real 5.1 program the encoder switches to 5.1 mode and passes all six channels. BTW, the PL2 decoder is automatically dropped out when receiving the 5.1 program, as it should do.


I agree, I wish WABC would "tell the truth" about their audio.


----------



## Trip in VA

Well, I'm now sitting in Fair Lawn, NJ. I get all the way here to realize I forgot the remote for my Zenith HDV420. But that's ok, I can still use it with the buttons on the front panel.


Here's what I can get well, in remap order:


WCBS-DT (2-1 1080i) - Easy to receive

WNBC-DT (4-1 1080i, 4-2 480i) - Stood on head and managed to catch

WNYW-DT (5-1 720p, 5-2 480i) - Seems to suffer from multipath

WABC-DT (7-1 720p, 7-2 480i) - Easiest of all to receive

WFME-DT (29-2 480i, 29-3 480i, etc.) - Easy to receive

WPXN-DT (31-1 480i) - Easy to receive when in the right area

WXTV-DT (41-1 480i) - Difficult to receive

WNJN-DT (50-1 480i, 50-2 480i, etc.) - Easy to receive, but HD did not appear at all

WFUT-DT (68-1 480i) - Easy to receive

WNJU-DT (71-1 480i) - See WNBC-DT


It seems that NBC is not sending any additional PSIP info with WNJU-DT, as it is remapping to 71-1 (see attachment). NBC network does the same thing. When WXII in Winston-Salem first signed on, they transmitted no PSIP. Some tuners could only decode it during NBC-HD, where it remapped to 81-1. PBS-HD mapped to 80-3, and so on.


I tried for WNET-DT 61 and WRNN-DT 48, but had no luck with either of them. I didn't even bother with WPIX-DT 12, though I might give it a try later (because I had a lot of luck with WHTM-DT 10 when we were in Harrisburg).


Is WTBY-DT at full power? I might try for that one a little later also.


And lastly, to elaborate on WNJN-DT... It mapped to 50-1 through 50-4. When I tuned in at around 10 last night, 50-2 and 50-3 were completely off, but there was no HD signal of any kind. I think I know what the problem is though I'm no expert. The same thing happened with my tuner when I tried to watch PBS-HD on UNC out of North Carolina, and it turned out they had a flag on the bitstream that said the HD stream was inactive. Some tuners ignored the flag and displayed it anyway, but others didn't even map 4-2 (they just had 4-1, 4-3, 4-4, and 4-5). Perhaps someone could give NJN a call and tell them about this?


I'll check in again a little later.


- Trip


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> 
> WNJN-DT (50-1 480i, 50-2 480i, etc.) - Easy to receive, but HD did not appear at all
> 
> [/b]



NJN only broadcasts HD in prime-time on 52-5. I believe they have to stop broadcasting 52-3 & 52-3 to free up bandwidth for the HD but I may be wrong about that. A few weeks ago they broadcast Nova in HD and I was pretty impressed with the PQ (factoring in the fact that it's a PBS station with sub-channels).


----------



## pmalve

I receive channel 55 from LI here in CT and was wondering if they are broadcasting a digital signal yet. I see from the FCC site they are going to be on channel 57. If they are broadcasting, are they at low power or full power. Their analog signal comes in fairly well here so I am hoping to get their digital signal. Thanks for your reply. Also for NYC channels I got better reception in the summer and fall before the leaves fell off. I was surprised at that, as my CT channels which are much closer to me came in much better when leaves fell off.


----------



## dturturro

I'm in Nassau and I cannot pick up 55-DT even pointing my antenna directly at their tower. I don't know if it's because they don't broadcast or they are just at low power. There's a Long Island reception post which you may have better luck with.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=330451


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trend1_
> *Saw this truck outside the Garden Sunday (11-21) for the Knicks Cavaliers game.
> 
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



That truck basicly lives at MSG and hardly ever moves, hence why there is an MSG network logo painted on the side of the truck, partially because when its loaded up with gear its over the weight limit to travel the roads legally-- its one of the first HD mobile units built so at the time virtual monitor walls and flat panels wernt cost effective to use.


And those on Cablevision systems get MSG in HD.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *NJN only broadcasts HD in prime-time on 52-5. I believe they have to stop broadcasting 52-3 & 52-3 to free up bandwidth for the HD but I may be wrong about that. A few weeks ago they broadcast Nova in HD and I was pretty impressed with the PQ (factoring in the fact that it's a PBS station with sub-channels).*



I know. What I'm saying is that 50-2 and 50-3 were both blank (dead) but there was no 50-5 to tune to.


Also, I did a signal check for WPIX-DT on 12-1 and I'm really close. I'm going to try and get a better signal and a screenshot a little later.


- Trip


----------



## Robert Packman

anybody have any trouble with CBS-2 on thanksgiving day?? my signal kept fluctuating and i was getting pixelization sound drops etc..usually one of my best..thanks


----------



## Mach5

Does anyone have any suggestion on which outdoor antenna should I get?? I live in Lower East Side(Chinatown) - Manhattan. Currently, I have ChannelMaster Model 3016 (rated for 30-40 miles range) on the roof, but can only get 7.1 (ABC-HD) and sometime 5.1 and 11.1. TIA.


----------



## seaford

>>
_anybody have any trouble with CBS-2 on thanksgiving day?? my signal kept fluctuating and i was getting pixelization sound drops etc..usually one of my best..thanks_


Yes, i saw a few breakups during the Indy game. Not normal for them but they have been better than most.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mach5_
> *Does anyone have any suggestion on which outdoor antenna should I get?? I live in Lower East Side(Chinatown) - Manhattan. Currently, I have ChannelMaster Model 3016 (rated for 30-40 miles range) on the roof, but can only get 7.1 (ABC-HD) and sometime 5.1 and 11.1. TIA.*



Your antenna is fine. You are probably suffering from multi-path (signals bouncing off of buildings. You may want to consider a rotor or a decent indoor antenna. Either way, reorienting the antenna will be your best bet. You may also want to wait until the combiner is done (hopefully). At that point, when you catch the ESB signal you won't need to constantly play with your antenna.


----------



## cpto

I've tuned into the two NJN stations I can receive on occasion and have never found them carrying the PBS evening HD feed.


Does anyone here have any information on what, if any, feeds they carry?


Thx


C


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *I've tuned into the two NJN stations I can receive on occasion and have never found them carrying the PBS evening HD feed.
> 
> 
> Does anyone here have any information on what, if any, feeds they carry?
> 
> 
> Thx
> 
> 
> C*



I mentioned this while I was visiting. I had the strongest signal of any station on 50-1, both 50-2 and 50-3 were blank, but there's no HD stream. I think they have a flag on 50-5 which is preventing some of the more PSIP-aware tuners from tuning the HD stream. UNC here in North Carolina had the same problem when they began HD. He said that the flag was there from before they did HD that said the x-2 (the HD) stream had nothing on it. Some tuners ignored it, while others, like mine, just would not tune x-2.


- Trip


----------



## GSfromCT

I am 62 miles from the ESB in CT with a pretty clear shot. I can pull in WXTV (ch 40) with a great solid signal probably around 70 - 75%. WNYW on the other hand is fluctuating and will not lock. I believe 40 and 44 are very close in power and I think ch 40 is one hundred feet higher. Could it be the radiation pattern of WNYE is not very strong to the Northeast?

Also I have seen an application for WNYW to go to 990kW (they are 246kW now I think), but WCBS is going to remain at 349kW?

Must be Murphys law, WXTV is one of my strongest signals and I don't speak a lick of Spanish.


----------



## spankle

I'm only pulling in abc and fox right now.

After scouring this site I think the following info is true


NBC is coming off of the GE Building

CBS and FOX are on the ESB

ABC is off of the Conde Nast Building


So my question is: (since I can pull a weak FOX signal (61%))

*********************************************************

AFTER the combiner is up should I be getting all the stations broadcast from ESB transmitter and would they all have the same power output?

*********************************************************

Is the power to be bumped up w/ the combiner project? (fingers crossed)


I really don't want to monkey w/ my antenna in the attic again. I'll hold tight w/ what I've got now if in a few month(s) the combiner will provide me the rest. The antenna thing is a headache. 2 degree change on my 4228 and the singal is lost.


----------



## hphase

I wish everyone would include a location in their profile. It allows you to make some assumtions when it comes to reception.


To the best of my knowledge, Fox will not change at all when the combiner is in place. Fox is on a separate antenna. UPN will go on the combiner, as will NBC, eventually. I don't know about other NYC stations.


----------



## vin smith

I'm in Babylon ( long island) and although I get both 13 and 21 PBS digital signals , neither is in HD. Are they broadcasting in HD?


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *I wish everyone would include a location in their profile. It allows you to make some assumtions when it comes to reception.
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, Fox will not change at all when the combiner is in place. Fox is on a separate antenna. UPN will go on the combiner, as will NBC, eventually. I don't know about other NYC stations.*



Once the combiner is operational it will provide WNBC, WABC, WWOR, WPIX, and WNET.


Harry

Admin at http://www.hdtvforum.com 

Get a daily dose of HDTV news.


----------



## skyhawk223

13 broadcasts in HD but 21 does not, even though it does broadcast a digital signal. 21 is sqaundering their bandwidth by dividing it up and broadcasting standard definition shows on several subchannels.


----------



## spankle

So FOX isn't going on the combiner but has a seperate transmitter on ESB?

Huh... go figure.


Any idea if the transmission will be stronger w/ the combiner and thus maybe get a better signal?


Plainsboro, NJ.

I don't want to have to roof mount my antenna. I'm lazy.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *Once the combiner is operational it will provide WNBC, WABC, WWOR, WPIX, and WNET.
> *



WCBS will also be on the combiner.


----------



## Infominister

I kinda' wish that WABC would stay on the Conde Nast building. Ever since they did an upgrade in late August/early September, they're my strongest and steadiest signal.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I kinda' wish that WABC would stay on the Conde Nast building. Ever since they did an upgrade in late August/early September, they're my strongest and steadiest signal.*



I can't agree more. WABC-DT is my strongest and most steady signal. I wish they wouldn't mess with it.


----------



## spankle

I agree that ABC is the strongest.


Scotty... I need more power!

Is the combiner using Dylithium Crystals to boost it's range?

Can we get more out of her?

Will it BOOST POWER as well as combine?


Aft shields failing...

Life support failing...


Scotty.... we need more power.


----------



## michaelk

sounds like you folks close in might get ABC better than Fox or CBS, but I can tell you out here in flemington, that abc gets about half the signal to me that fox and cbs do.


So those of us in the boonies want the combiner.




hope it doesnt hose you guys too much.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *Once the combiner is operational it will provide WNBC, WABC, WWOR, WPIX, and WNET.
> 
> 
> Harry
> 
> Admin at http://www.hdtvforum.com
> 
> Get a daily dose of HDTV news.*



Wow ...I thought all major ch's were going to be on the combiner....CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, UPN, WB, and WNET. Anyone have any other info on that?


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> *sounds like you folks close in might get ABC better than Fox or CBS, but I can tell you out here in flemington, that abc gets about half the signal to me that fox and cbs do.
> 
> 
> So those of us in the boonies want the combiner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hope it doesnt hose you guys too much.*



I wouldn't say I'm "close in" all the way up in northern Westchester, some 45 miles from the transmitter.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Wow ...I thought all major ch's were going to be on the combiner....CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, UPN, WB, and WNET. Anyone have any other info on that?*



I'm not sure about this at all, but I think that only ABC or FOX could have been on the combiner, not both, because one is on 44 and the other is on 45. They fit a pattern...


28 NBC

33 WB

38 UPN

45 ABC

56 CBS

61 PBS


See how they're all spaced apart? Those are the stations that will be on the combiner. The odd man out will be 44 FOX.


Maybe someone else knows if I'm right or if there's another reason. If I am right, then why didn't Fox insist that it should go on the combiner along with co-owned UPN, and let ABC do their own transmitter?


- Trip


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> *NBC is coming off of the GE Building
> 
> CBS and FOX are on the ESB
> 
> ABC is off of the Conde Nast Building
> *



Anyone know where WPIX broadcasts from?


----------



## trekkerj

Empire State Building.


Also, I don't see what channel separation has to do with the combiner.


----------



## shappyss

how the target date of 12/31 looking?


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I kinda' wish that WABC would stay on the Conde Nast building. Ever since they did an upgrade in late August/early September, they're my strongest and steadiest signal.*



I'm about 50 miles out in NW NJ. ABC is the most reliable. It's kind of hard to say strongest without a spectrum analyzer, but WABC-DT seems to always be there.


----------



## GSfromCT

Does anyone know if the application for WNYW to go from 246kW to 990kW will happen?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GSfromCT_
> *Does anyone know if the application for WNYW to go from 246kW to 990kW will happen?*



If it is, they're planning on a directional antenna, with most of the signal aimed to the east and directly north, with some small lobes towards the west/southwest, so in CT you'd probably be set.


----------



## dturturro

Does anyone know what Fox plans on doing with it's subchannel when UPN moves to the combiner?


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I kinda' wish that WABC would stay on the Conde Nast building. Ever since they did an upgrade in late August/early September, they're my strongest and steadiest signal.*



Here in CT near the coastline CBS & FOX are the strongest. I can pull in WABC but it breaks up frequently, even on the best days (WTNH is very strong however). NBC is non-existant.


When the combiner is done it will be nice to just point my antenna to one spot and lock it down for good!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> Also, I don't see what channel separation has to do with the combiner.*



I'm not exactly certain either. That's why I said I had no idea if I was right. It's just a wild guess. Perhaps someone on the project could fill us in as to why Fox won't be on it.


- Trip


----------



## Steven Drexler

Have Fox and NBC lowered their power? I was getting both fine on LI till 2-3 weeks ago. Now NBC breaks up a lot and FOX won't even lock. Does it have to do with the combiner. CBS and ABC are just fine.


----------



## George Thompson

Channel separation is more a factor of stations in the market and adjacent markets not a factor in the combiner. The notch filters in the combiner can be designed and tuned to any frequency. (The length of the plumbing).

Since I think the antenna and thus the combiner is only rated at something like 3MW then that limits the amount of power the stations can pump into it.

Now there are two ways of measuring power. DC at the final stage of the amplifier and the ERP which takes into consideration the gain and height of the antenna.

But you have the height and gain of the antenna. There are offsets or the way the antenna is mounted on the mast that null the signal over water.

I hope this helps some get a better picture of what is happening.

George


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *I'm not exactly certain either. That's why I said I had no idea if I was right. It's just a wild guess. Perhaps someone on the project could fill us in as to why Fox won't be on it.
> 
> *



WNYW-DT has always transmitted from the Empire State Building using their own antenna. Therefore, there was no need to transmit from the WCBS-DT antenna.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GSfromCT_
> *Does anyone know if the application for WNYW to go from 246kW to 990kW will happen?*



Interesting; sometimes between 11/17 and 11/30 the application has disappeared from the FCC records I display at www.2150.com/broadcast , so I went and checked via the FCC's web site and find it was approved on 11/29/2004: http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...ion_id=1028495 


Then I realized I don't display construction permits by default anymore, went and checked that box, and see it's now shown as a construction permit.


----------



## Infominister

I'm no broadcast engineer, but going from 246kW to 990kW sounds like a pretty powerful boost, especially in light of George's comment that the new antenna/combiner will be "power challenged." I wonder what the implications are to all of this in terms of the relative signal reliability of the different stations?


----------



## dm145

I lost PBS 50-1 - 50-5 a few days ago, anyone else?


----------



## George Thompson

Overall the coverage from ESB should be ~85% of what the WTC was.


----------



## Infominister

Is that greater than what we've got now from WCBS, WNYW and WABC?


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I lost PBS 50-1 - 50-5 a few days ago, anyone else?*



Here in NE Queens I was doing very well with this station until about 3 weeks ago. Since then the signal is constantly in and out, registering at about 50 per cent on my Samsung STB when it registers at all. Reception now is virtually non-existent.


----------



## suzook11

i am wondering if anyone on this board lives in or near medford long island.if so what equip do you have and what hd channels are you receiving reliably?i am deciding on getting voom,directv,or cablevision.the only reason to go with cablevision is to get the local channels in hd.if i can receive hd locals with an antenna i will go for either voom or directv.thanks for any input.


----------



## dturturro

You'd probably need a rotor, preamp & a large antenna. Aiming at Connecticut would probably be your best bet.


----------



## clanger

I'm in St. James, not to far from you. I have a Channel master and pre-amp in the attic and recieve CBS, FOX and ABC no problem. Once the combiner is done I should get the rest


----------



## DTVDAD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Steven Drexler_
> *Have Fox and NBC lowered their power? I was getting both fine on LI till 2-3 weeks ago. Now NBC breaks up a lot and FOX won't even lock. Does it have to do with the combiner. CBS and ABC are just fine.*



I'm a little further east from you in Huntington. I haven't noticed a change. You might want to repoint or peak your antenna; maybe the wind shifted it a little.


----------



## Steven Drexler

No, the antenna has not moved. Get Steady 93% on CBS, 100% on ABC, 36-45% on NBC and 63% on WPIX. Fox fluctuates wildly from 0-45% and continually breaks up. In the past (1999) when I first started with HD, this happend to CBS when they weren't encoding correctly. I would call them and they would fix it until some other engineer came by and played with the settings.

I suspect that FOX has fooled with their encoder.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> Wizard of Oz In HD for first time
> 
> Burbank, CA - December 1, 2004
> 
> (from thefutoncritic.com and The WB)
> 
> The WB has announced it will broadcast the 1939 movie classic The Wizard of Oz as a High Definition premier on Sunday Dec. 19 (7:30-10:00 PM ET).
> 
> It's the third straight year the WB has broadcast the Judy Garland, Ray Bolger, Jack Haley, Bert Lahr and Margaret Hamilton epic, but its first ever showing in HD.



I guess this is just wishful thinking on my part, but what is the chance the combiner could be done by 12/19 so most of us could see "The Wizard of Oz" in HD on WPIX-DT ? Something tells me there is no chance with this never ending combiner project. Too bad.


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *I mentioned this while I was visiting. I had the strongest signal of any station on 50-1, both 50-2 and 50-3 were blank, but there's no HD stream. I think they have a flag on 50-5 which is preventing some of the more PSIP-aware tuners from tuning the HD stream. UNC here in North Carolina had the same problem when they began HD. He said that the flag was there from before they did HD that said the x-2 (the HD) stream had nothing on it. Some tuners ignored it, while others, like mine, just would not tune x-2.
> 
> 
> - Trip*



You may want to check the last two pages of the Central New Jersey OTA discussion for answers to your NJN questions.


Just to answer some of your comments, we run four towers in NJ and we send out four digital channels during most of the day. At 8pm we cut off the -2 and -3 channels and cut in the -5 channel which is HD. We do this to free up bandwidth for the HD channel. The HD channel runs HD programming until 12 midnight at which point it's cut back off and the -2 and -3 channels are put back on. This is done everyday. Also, we are a Jr. PBS affiliate so we have to delay our PBS programming by 8 days. What this means is that our programming will NOT match a full affiliate's guide.


As far as the PSIP generator, last night it failed causing the HD -5 channel to show a black signal. We are having it looked at today. The HD will be back up tonight. The engineer is looking at getting the AC3 audio to pass-through which it wasn't doing before. It was being dumped down to two channels.


----------



## netman

Bob,


Thanks for the great info!


Andy


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I wouldn't say I'm "close in" all the way up in northern Westchester, some 45 miles from the transmitter.*



wow that's interesting. I think I'm about 50-52 and there's a dramatic difference the other way. Always interesting that there are so many variable.


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *I'm about 50 miles out in NW NJ. ABC is the most reliable. It's kind of hard to say strongest without a spectrum analyzer, but WABC-DT seems to always be there.*



I'm in Chester (NJ) and ABC pegs my signal meter at 100. CBS follows with a steady 90 - FOX fluctuates between 80-90 - and 70 when it rains...i lose signal...aaargh. NBC I do not get at all.


----------



## netman

on a slightly related topic: for those who are interested in how your reception is related to distance and elevation and stuff in the way, I bought a copy of TopoUSA from Delorme (months ago) and I totally love it. It is a lot of fun to see how that big hill between you and the station gets in the way or why the guy 10 miles further out gets better reception. HAMs into UHF and VHF might enjoy it also. Just thought I would mention it.


Andy


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *I'm in Chester (NJ) and ABC pegs my signal meter at 100. CBS follows with a steady 90 - FOX fluctuates between 80-90 - and 70 when it rains...i lose signal...aaargh. NBC I do not get at all.*



Gary what type of set up do you have? I'm in Randolph (a bit east) and while I get a good signal on all of those channels, I probably don't get them as strong as you do. Just curious....


Doug


----------



## Yung

Anything going on with WCBS-DT 2-1? Over the past week are so, I've been getting a lot of pixelation and drop outs. Signal strength drops to the low 70's a lot. Previously I use to get signal strength of mid-to-upper 80's.


----------



## markhout




> Quote:
> Anything going on with WCBS-DT 2-1? Over the past week are so, I've been getting a lot of pixelation and drop outs. Signal strength drops to the low 70's a lot. Previously I use to get signal strength of mid-to-upper 80's.



Same here in Park Slope, Brooklyn. ABC has been terrible as well - must be multipath.


----------



## winman42

Anyone else having this problem? When i tune to FOX at 5-2, i get no picture for at least 90 seconds, and when the picture finallly comes in, its like a seperate frame by frame viewing. Very weird. I'm in Jersey City, NJ,

and get a signal strength of 80, which is normal for me. I usually never

get any kind of interference.


Using an RCA DTC-100


thanks,


Winston


----------



## SnellKrell

5.2 coming in just fine OTA.


Gary


----------



## DVW

11,


I have a antenna setup in Patchogue I can show you. Give me a call. 289-9818.


Dan


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *Bob,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the great info!
> 
> 
> Andy*



No problem. Unfortunately our AC3 audio issue is going to take longer than I expected to fix and it seems our PSIP issue is ongoing. Hopefully we'll have resolution on these issues very soon.


----------



## RoccoP

Do we know if the Combiner completion is still on target for the end of December? This would be a nice Holiday gift. Anyone with an update, please share.


--RP--


----------



## George Thompson

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...25#post4759025


----------



## michaelk

see this thread:

its a miracle 


looks like the combiner is up and they will do low power testing this week.


high power testing next week


not everyone's transmitter is ready but everyone will be full power by the end of the year!!!!


(well that is if you believe the story...)


Fingers crossed!

Mike


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

I can't believe it! The end is finally is sight. *crosses fingers*


----------



## trekkerj

My question is which stations WILL be ready in the coming weeks to transmit, and which won't. I really want to get WWOR for Star Trek. It's in repeats, and the next new one isn't until January, so my hope it they are ready by then. Anyone have inside info? What about WPIX?


----------



## slocko

same here. Enterprise engage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I finally had my TV converged afte a year and Enterprise improved remarkably. Now for the next level!


----------



## Ken Ross

It truly is a miracle....right up there with the parting of the red sea.


----------



## Scott G

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if WPIX-DT came back by 12/19 so we can see the Wizard of Oz in HD.


----------



## RoccoP

George,


Thanks for posting the link to the good news. I was already getting myself ready for another delay.


This is great news!


----------



## dturturro

OK, someone has to ask what we're all thinking:


It is December 13th, *2004*, right?


----------



## vinnyv07

The best news since .....since....a long long time ago.


----------



## netman

{fingers stuck in ears}


i'm not listening ... i'm not listening ..... i'm not ...!


----------



## cpto

When I started this thread almost a year and a half ago, I didn't think it would take more than a few months for the WTC stations to get back on line (US's largest market, high demographics, etc.). Wow! Was I ever naive.


It'll be interesting to see how or if my viewing habits change. My 64" set doesn't do too well with NTSC if there's the least bit of noise or ghosting. After 9/11, I settled on WCBS, and HBO/SHO from DTV. When ABC came back up I found some shows I really enjoyed, and now _Desperate Housewives_ and _Lost_ are on my "don't miss" lists.


I got a DVD of the first _Jack and Bobby_ show on WB and enjoyed it, but the ATSC picture was so distracting I watched only one episode. Similarly, I'm catching up with _Smallville_ on HDNet. As for _Star Trek Enterprise_, I'd like to watch it but I'm spoiled and can't take the bad sound, noise, and fuzzy picture I get from UPN on my cable provider.


I can't receive WNBC so I don't really know what's on it.


I don't know if I'm at all representative of the early adopters who purchased HD sets. But if I am, national advertisers have missed at least _this_ demographic in their advertising. Since they didn't appear to have put any pressure on NYC stations, I can only assume they weren't interested in me. And so my purchases have been influenced only by CBS, and to a lesser (and recent) extent, by ABC programming.


Well, I've probably wandered a great deal from the parameters I tried to set up for this thread. So to bring it back in line,


CBS - Most prone to problems with weather

ABC - Even in good weather, has drops and blockiness

NBC - Can't receive

WB - Can't receive

UPN - N/A

PBS - Only the NJ stations


Meanwhile, thanks for all the information everyone on this thread provided for those of us in the NYC area. Among the reception reports, antenna suggestions, and info from those "in the know", I've learned a great deal. It will be very interesting to see the new directions this thread takes when the combiner if finally up and running.


Thanks for being here!


Rick


----------



## vinnyv07

"This week, low-power tests will measure performance and ensure that the antenna can handle the move to high power. The week of Dec. 13, the facility will be up and running to accommodate some high-power testing, although not all stations have finished installation of their transmitters. Davis says WABC will be at full power by the end of the year. For the first time since 9/11, we'll be able to broadcast at our full licensed power.


Does anyone know what stations havent finished installation yet? Im guessing its the ones that I have trouble getting. WB...and WNET. Either way , this week they are going to start some low power testing.....which probably will mean alot of fluctuations is sig. I hope everything goes well for the week of the 13th.


----------



## SnellKrell

Last I heard or read was that WNET would be the last station to be connected and working, and that won't be until after the 1st of the new year.


Gary


----------



## michaelk

Just to summarize what took so long- it was all the lawyers....



> Quote:
> In general, it hasn't been technology issues that have been the long-lead items, says Bob Seidel, CBS vice president, engineering technology, who headed up the project. It's been negotiations, agreements and lawyers that have affected our pacing.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> *Just to summarize what took so long- it was all the lawyers....*



not much of an unbiased source, though.


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *Gary what type of set up do you have? I'm in Randolph (a bit east) and while I get a good signal on all of those channels, I probably don't get them as strong as you do. Just curious....
> 
> 
> Doug*



I'm running an Antenna's Direct XG42 with a WineGard AP-4800 pre-amp. Works very well - I may have to raise it in the spring when the leaves come back on the trees - but we'll see. I'll take a pic and post it later today (pics below). The XG42 is mounted below my dish on my tripod. It's on the peak of my single-story garage, pointing right into the neighbors trees 


Pics:


----------



## vinnyv07

Ok I have a question. Does anyone know if the Wb will be UHF after the combiner is on line? Or will it still be on the VHF side. I have a UHF only Ant and I was wondering about the WB. Anyone have any idea?


----------



## dturturro

WB will move to channel 33 and be at high power.


----------



## scottte

I have never seen a clear answer (if anyone actually knew), other than that the ESB combiner will be at 80% of WTC, but what does that really mean??? Is WCBS going to be the same as it always was or stronger??? That is what I am gauging by, as I can usually get it here in southern CT but not over the last couple of weeks.


Will we see all of the stations on the combiner broadcasting at more power than WCBS has typically???


I sure hope so as that will be great for all in receiving range!!


scottte


----------



## shaown

So, we should expect ,,

our WABC strength to improve? Our Fox strength to be unaffected? Our CBS stregnth to be the same? and NBC, WB , and UPN will appear with similar quality to ABC and CBS?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by shaown_
> *So, we should expect ,,
> 
> our WABC strength to improve? Our Fox strength to be unaffected? Our CBS stregnth to be the same? and NBC, WB , and UPN will appear with similar quality to ABC and CBS?*



Except for WCBS (which will just be the same), everyone else should improve, because of more power and/or a higher transmission point.


Even WNYW/FOX will improve at some point as their application to go to higher power with a directional antenna was granted (but I don't know when that will happen).


----------



## Infominister

If WCBS-DT 56 stays the same power that will be fine. I just hope the signal will regain some integrity. It's fluctuated and been very unreliable lately. As mentioned previously, my strongest and steadiest signal is now WABC-DT 45 from the Conde Nast Building. They should stay there and use the combiner as a backup.


----------



## shappyss

are the "tests" actual broadcasts that we can see? if so can anyone please report if you are seeing anything. Thanks


----------



## Scott G

I wonder if any of the combiner tests took place today, and how the went ? Anyone have any information on this ?


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *I wonder if any of the combiner tests took place today, and how the went ? Anyone have any information on this ?*



You took the words right out of my mouth. You must be a mind reader part time. Im going to go up and do a scan...but Im sure if nobody mentioned anything that the tests didnt begin yet.


----------



## dm145

Combiner up and running or this thread hitting 200 pages? Which will come first?


----------



## trekkerj

I wonder how they plan to get NBC and ABC tested since they are already broadcasting from alternate sites. Is that an issue.


BTW, I did a scan and noticed nothing different.


----------



## Scott G

Yeah, I checked several times today and did not see anything different in signal levels. I wonder if maybe the testing was put off by the weather.


----------



## Phil Hightech

Something's up. ABC went from 24.1db to 32.5db on the Fusion III signal meter. It's never been that high. Woo Hoo go combiner!


----------



## Phil Hightech

CBS is dropping in and out and is much weaker than usual. Can anyone else confirm this?


----------



## SnellKrell

2.1 from the Upper East Side just fine all day.


I agree with Phil, 7.1 strongest that I can remember.


No signals coming through on Channel 33 (11.1) or on

Channel 38 (9.1).


Can't wait!


Gary


----------



## Phil Hightech

WXTV channel 41 (RF channel 40) also shows much higher signal strength.


----------



## Maynard

I hate to be the buzzkill - but I think that is likely atmospheric rather than combiner - I have noticed increased strength from wtnh - a vhf in ct...


-maynard


----------



## scottte

I want to agree with Maynard, but the troposhperic ducting shows nothing special tonight ( http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html )


With that said, not sure what the deal is, but I NEVER pick up WABC out of NYC, I always use WTNH here in CT. I am right on the CT shoreline, between New Haven and Bridgeport and getting WABC with breakups at about 33%. Again, even on good atmospheric nights, I DO NOT get this station. So could be coincidence but I hope not!!! I would love to point my antenna towards the ESB and be done playing around!!


Lets get those hamsters running faster and get the combiner power kicked up a notch!!!!


scottte


----------



## dturturro

I thought the testing doesn't start until next week? And WXTV isn't on the combiner so that shouldn't affect anything. Maybe we're all getting a little jumpy now that there's light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phil Hightech_
> *WXTV channel 41 (RF channel 40) also shows much higher signal strength.*



Unrelated to the combiner project..... I picked it up for the first time about a month ago, so they probably dialed up their signal strength beforehand.


----------



## mus27

Hi Guys.. I recently just purchased:

Panasonic 50" LCD Projection TV

Samsung DVD Player (DVI Output)

Yamaha HTR-5740 Reciever

JBL SCS160SI Speakers

Direct TV w/ Samsung HD Reciever


Ok, now that the setup is out of the way, let me get to my problem.


I had all this setup in my house which is a 3 floor townhouse and I had this setup on the third floor bedroom (north side of the house) for 2 weeks. I purchased a $50 indoor antenna from Radio Shack last week and did a scan and was able to pick up

2.1

4.1

5.1

5.2

7.1

and a lot of other channels. All the main local channels were coming in with no problem at all.


Yesterday I moved all my equiment to the 1st floor living room which is on the south side of the house. I attached my antenna and was not able to pickup and Off-Air Digital or HD channels now. I then purchased a $99 Samsung Indoor Antenna and now i can only pickup 7.1. Is there anything wrong with my antenna or is that i am lower in the house and thus my antenna is not in a higher location? What are my other options to get the best off-air reception. I really want to watch the Super Bowl in HD on Fox.


Thanks in Advance...


----------



## th003g

hey everybody... new here and from nesconset/hauppauge area wondering if i will be able to recieve nyc/CT HD signals where I live with an indoor antenna...( access hole in attic is 25 inches wide... max and landlord doesnt want anything on roof...) silver sensor maybe?

any help is appreciated


----------



## DTVDAD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mus27_
> *...I had all this setup in my house which is a 3 floor townhouse and I had this setup on the third floor bedroom (north side of the house) for 2 weeks. I purchased a $50 indoor antenna from Radio Shack last week and did a scan and was able to pick up
> 
> 2.1
> 
> 4.1
> 
> 5.1
> 
> 5.2
> 
> 7.1
> 
> and a lot of other channels. All the main local channels were coming in with no problem at all.
> 
> 
> Yesterday I moved all my equiment to the 1st floor living room which is on the south side of the house. I attached my antenna and was not able to pickup and Off-Air Digital or HD channels now. I then purchased a $99 Samsung Indoor Antenna and now i can only pickup 7.1. Is there anything wrong with my antenna or is that i am lower in the house and thus my antenna is not in a higher location? What are my other options to get the best off-air reception...*



Height is an important factor with OTA, Could you place your antenna where is was on the third floor and run a line down to the first floor? You may need an ampliflier because of the increased distance from the antenna. An amp or another antenna may also be an option, if you want to keep your anyenna on the first floor. It's just trial and error. Good luck.


----------



## mus27

Thanks for your reply and I just did run the setup you had described and was able to recieve excellent signals from my third floor. I might keep it perminent and figure out a way to run the cables or get an out door antenna. Which antenna would you recomend?


----------



## RZ

Did you try a small Radio Shack outdoor antenna in your attic? Works fine for me on S.I. south shore.


----------



## PDPnNJ

Last night at around 11:00pm ET, I was able to pick up WNBC at the same location where I was pointing to WCBS. It seems the testing incorporated WNBC into the combiner. I was not able to pick up WPIX nor WNET (my 2 missing channels). Is WPIX going from VHF to UHF once it's into the combiner ? I have an UHF antenna.


P.S. I was never able to pick up WNBC before so this is a huge plus. Work is being done guys, don't lose faith.


----------



## flattie

I'm on the south shore of LI approx 25 miles east of the city. I have a Samsung SIRTS 360 and a roof antenna that was there when I moved in. Using said roof antenna I have always gotten CBS (2-1) without any breakups, pixellation etc. and thats it for the major stations (4-1, 5-1, 7-1). Last night for the first time ever I got 5-1, 5-2, 7-1, 7-2 perfect with no breakups or pixellation - can you say YES MNF IN HDTV - I can after last night.... I'm guessing that the combiner is up now based on this or could it simply have been some quirk of atmospheric conditions. As far as still not getting 4-1 I'm not too concerned as I get it via Directv.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by th003g_
> *hey everybody... new here and from nesconset/hauppauge area wondering if i will be able to recieve nyc/CT HD signals where I live with an indoor antenna...( access hole in attic is 25 inches wide... max and landlord doesnt want anything on roof...) silver sensor maybe?
> 
> any help is appreciated*



no where near you but i can use a silver sensor in my attic to get philly which is around 40 miles away.


Also I have a channelmaster 4228 up there. I drilled out a few rivets to break it into 2 parts then put it back together with a few nuts and bolts once it was through the hatch. That gets slightly better signal for philly. NYC is about 10 miles further and the silver sensor barely works whereas the CM 4228 soes a decent job (for the full power stations on the EMpire State Building - ESB).


All of the baove is with a pre-amp. I played when i first set it all up and i think i got most of philly but no NYC without it but i cant remember exactly.


Hit antennaweb.org and it will give you distances to the ESB (look at FOX and CBS- they are currently on ESB- the others are in the process of moving over there). THen you can use my experience as a guide of if the silver sensor will work. Keep in mind though that there are tons of factors so you might have bette ror worse luck than me.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flattie_
> *I'm on the south shore of LI approx 25 miles east of the city. I have a Samsung SIRTS 360 and a roof antenna that was there when I moved in. Using said roof antenna I have always gotten CBS (2-1) without any breakups, pixellation etc. and thats it for the major stations (4-1, 5-1, 7-1). Last night for the first time ever I got 5-1, 5-2, 7-1, 7-2 perfect with no breakups or pixellation - can you say YES MNF IN HDTV - I can after last night.... I'm guessing that the combiner is up now based on this or could it simply have been some quirk of atmospheric conditions. As far as still not getting 4-1 I'm not too concerned as I get it via Directv.*



Since Fox is not involved with the combiner it was probably atmospheric conditions helping your reception. Patience everyone, we're almost there!


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Since Fox is not involved with the combiner it was probably atmospheric conditions helping your reception. Patience everyone, we're almost there!*



I also get 4-1 via DTV, but IMO the DTV signal is much worse than the OTA signal, probably having something to do with how D is compressing the signal.


----------



## spankle

I'm confused and maybe somebody can clear me up...


Fox and CBS are broadcasting from ESB but Fox isn't part of the combiner?

Ok...

My confusion is that I can pull in FOX but NOT CBS. I've never been able to grab CBS fom my location in Plainsboro NJ. If they are both transmitting from ESB is Fox transmitting w/ more power? I thought CBS was juiced higher?


Why do I get Fox and not CBS?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> *I'm confused and maybe somebody can clear me up...
> 
> 
> Fox and CBS are broadcasting from ESB but Fox isn't part of the combiner?
> 
> Ok...
> 
> My confusion is that I can pull in FOX but NOT CBS. I've never been able to grab CBS fom my location in Plainsboro NJ. If they are both transmitting from ESB is Fox transmitting w/ more power? I thought CBS was juiced higher?
> 
> 
> Why do I get Fox and not CBS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



According to: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp CBS broadcasts at a higher power than Fox. But, since they're coming from different antennas they probably have different coverage areas. One may be more directional than the other.


----------



## Steve L

According to antennaweb.org, I live about 20.3 miles north of the ESB and I get both Fox and CBS. (My UHF antenna is pointed at 228 degrees.) My signal strength meter shows me getting CBS in the low 90s and Fox in the low 80s, so apparently Fox's signal is a bit weaker.



/steve


----------



## slocko

what would be the channel for HD-UPN when it comes online? 9-1?


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> *My confusion is that I can pull in FOX but NOT CBS. I've never been able to grab CBS fom my location in Plainsboro NJ. If they are both transmitting from ESB is Fox transmitting w/ more power? I thought CBS was juiced higher?
> 
> 
> Why do I get Fox and not CBS?
> *



That is weird. Most folks have little difficulty receiving CBS. I very rarely have a problem with them. But with FOX (and ABC) I have lots of issues. I live in Matawan NJ.


----------



## SnellKrell

WWOR Channel 9, will be broadcasting its digital signal over-the-air on Channel 38 - your tuner will remap it as Channel 9.1.


Gary


----------



## slocko

I'm next door to you and I get Fox, CBS, and ABC with just a little megawave antenna on top of my TV with no problems.


I let my neighbor down the street borrow it, and he didn't catch anything from the basement. My TV is on the first floor.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *That is weird. Most folks have little difficulty receiving CBS. I very rarely have a problem with them. But with FOX (and ABC) I have lots of issues. I live in Matawan NJ.*


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *I'm next door to you and I get Fox, CBS, and ABC with just a little megawave antenna on top of my TV with no problems.
> 
> 
> I let my neighbor down the street borrow it, and he didn't catch anything from the basement. My TV is on the first floor.*



I have a large antenna in the attic but it is 20+ years old. I tried a SilverSensor but it did not do to well except on CBS. I think my issue is I have lots of large trees near me.


----------



## dswallow

FOX (WNYW-DT) broadcasts from the ESB at lower power (73.8kW) using an omnidirectional antenna at a lower height than CBS right now. FOX has been granted a construction permit to broadcast at a much higher power (990kW) at the same height they're at now (1204ft) using a directional antenna; don't know when that'll happen, but it'll help a lot for most people.


----------



## michaelk

what is with that fox directional antenna? The map makes it look like they only want CT to receive it not NJ? Since it will have many times more power will it have similar coverage out here in western NJ as now?


Bigger picture- unless someone in a neighboring market is also on your frequency why wouldnt you just have an omnidirectional broadcast?


----------



## spankle

I should say I'm using a CM 4228 stuffed into a first floor attic space. I tried a silver sensor on the first floor but nothing. I've found only 1 spot in my attic that I can get any signal(NY) and that pulls ABC and FOX only. CBS can't be found. If I move that bloody antenna a centimeter it's all over. I don't know how I found that spot. I had that freak'n antenna everywhere (except the logical outside). I had hopes that the combiner would let me leave that metal mesh in the attic but since I don't get CBS I'm guessing the combiner is going to do squat for me. ARGGGGHHHHH!


*kicking*

I don't want to move that antenna outside


reversed reception spankle... out.


----------



## Phil Hightech

I just noticed CBS is showing an increase in strength. Pegs the meter @32.5db on the Fusion III. All time high for my location.


----------



## Robert Packman

combiner up??low power tests??is that why CBS was BAD last night lower then normal power reading? anyone else.my picture was breaking up during NCIS


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> *Bigger picture- unless someone in a neighboring market is also on your frequency why wouldnt you just have an omnidirectional broadcast?*



In this case a cardoid pattern will nul to the south and not waste coverage over water. In other cases not cover mountains or dessert. Get the picture. In some areas you want a directional pattern.

George


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> **kicking*
> 
> I don't want to move that antenna outside
> 
> 
> reversed reception spankle... out.*



/wiseass mode on


Aw hell that 4228 on my roof is the prettiest darn thing! Get a rotor and put that thing up on the roof where it belongs! You KNOW you WANT to.

{singing}....up on the rooof .....


/end spankle torment mode


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Robert Packman_
> *combiner up??low power tests??is that why CBS was BAD last night lower then normal power reading? anyone else.my picture was breaking up during NCIS*



If there have been any tests...I havent seen any results. Things are about the same as they have always been for me. CBS- always good...nbc - a no show, Fox is good enough for a steady picture and so is ABC. WB and WNET I cant get at all. Im looking foward to the testing to see if that makes a difference. But I have seen none so far.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> *what is with that fox directional antenna? The map makes it look like they only want CT to receive it not NJ? Since it will have many times more power will it have similar coverage out here in western NJ as now?
> 
> 
> Bigger picture- unless someone in a neighboring market is also on your frequency why wouldnt you just have an omnidirectional broadcast?*



Several things:


1) No point in broadcasting over water.


2) Have to protect WVIA-TV 44 in Scranton.


3) Have to protect WMCN-DT 44 in Atlantic City/Philadelphia.


Plus, WNYW-DT currently broadcasts at 246 kW. With two or three exceptions on that directional plot they have, all areas will get that amount of power or more.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot...19&p360=0.887& 


- Trip


----------



## scottte

after looking at the map of how FOX 5's signal will be, how do we know approx how far it will go into CT????? Is there any way to have that polar plot over layed onto a geographical map????


scottte


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *If there have been any tests...I havent seen any results. Things are about the same as they have always been for me. CBS- always good...nbc - a no show, Fox is good enough for a steady picture and so is ABC. WB and WNET I cant get at all. Im looking foward to the testing to see if that makes a difference. But I have seen none so far.*



I also have not seen any evidence of any tests. My signal strengths are exactly the same all week. Absolutely nothing has changed. I have checked constantly. All I noticed was a bump up in the signal on the two rainy days on Monday and Tuesday. I always get a slight bump up in signal levels in the rain. I do not see any evidence of the combiner changes. Please tell me there is not problems and further delays with the combiner...


----------



## dm145

There is not problems and further delays with the combiner...


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by scottte_
> *after looking at the map of how FOX 5's signal will be, how do we know approx how far it will go into CT????? Is there any way to have that polar plot over layed onto a geographical map????*



Enter your exact lat/long and the red line on the polar plot is the direction from the transmitter to your lat/long, so you can see the specific strength towards you from the transmitter. At least that'll give you an idea if you're getting close to the max signal or some lesser amount.


----------



## Calabs

Anyone else get some MAJOR flickering on ABC last night? Watching "LOST", every 10 secons or so, there would be a flash/streak of various colors (brought me back to the 60s')







It was so bad I had to go SD with all of its blur and washed out color.










I didn't seem to have it on any other OTA stations, so I assumed it was the station's problem.


----------



## dan57

Calabs, I noticed the same thing Tuesday night watching NYPD Blue. Every so often, I got a flash - mostly green. I also didn't see this on any other station.


Do you remember the 60's?


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Anyone else get some MAJOR flickering on ABC last night? Watching "LOST", every 10 secons or so, there would be a flash/streak of various colors (brought me back to the 60s')
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was so bad I had to go SD with all of its blur and washed out color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't seem to have it on any other OTA stations, so I assumed it was the station's problem.*



I'm glad you posted this, I had the same thing and now at least I know there was nothing wrong with my TV. How about that show though, isn't it awesome!!! Do you know when the next episode is going to be (I noticed that next week is a repeat)?


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Anyone else get some MAJOR flickering on ABC last night? Watching "LOST", every 10 secons or so, there would be a flash/streak of various colors (brought me back to the 60s')
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was so bad I had to go SD with all of its blur and washed out color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't seem to have it on any other OTA stations, so I assumed it was the station's problem.*



Ahhhh, it's good to know it's not yet ANOTHER problem with my HR10-250 - thanks for posting!


Yes, I had exactly the same issue. I was able to repeat the problem when replaying, so I knew it was in the data stream somewhere - but didn't know whether it was in the OTA stream, or induced by my receiver ;-)


----------



## spankle

Netman... your response was too funny.


I DO want my antenna outside, I do, I do.

I just want somebody ELSE to do the work!

I'll be singing when I do it because you know I'll have to now.

You know it. I know it. Everyone reading this forum knows it.

Best reception is outside. I'll have to suck it up and do it.

I think I can get away with it if I put lights on it for Christmas but

how do I decorate it the rest of the year so

the wife doesn't complain? Ideas?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *Anyone else get some MAJOR flickering on ABC last night? Watching "LOST", every 10 secons or so, there would be a flash/streak of various colors (brought me back to the 60s')
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was so bad I had to go SD with all of its blur and washed out color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't seem to have it on any other OTA stations, so I assumed it was the station's problem.*



Right you are Kenny! My wife said the same thing to me, "FIX THIS! WHAT IS THIS....I CAN'T WATCH LOST LIKE THIS!"


I wonder if there's any mention of it in the LOST thread over on the programming forum to see if it was a NATIONAL issue....or maybe, JUST MAYBE, it's this elusive combiner thingie!


Yeah, yeah, THAT'S the ticket.....


----------



## mad6c

I've seen this a few times on ABC over the last week or so. I'm glad other people saw this also, I was hoping it was not the HDMI port on my HD Tivo going south.


It looked very strange if you paused it.



Mike


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *Calabs, I noticed the same thing Tuesday night watching NYPD Blue. Every so often, I got a flash - mostly green. I also didn't see this on any other station.
> 
> 
> Do you remember the 60's?*



I did not watch ABC last night, but I saw this occurence that you describe on Tuesday night on ABC. It must be some station problem.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *Calabs, I noticed the same thing Tuesday night watching NYPD Blue. Every so often, I got a flash - mostly green. I also didn't see this on any other station.
> 
> 
> Do you remember the 60's?*



Good to know. Too bad D* doesn't offer an HD feed of ABC to compare. If this is re-appearing on a nightly basis, perhaps a call to the engineer is appropriate at this point? Anyone game?


Believe it or not, I remember more of the 60's now than during the 60's!


----------



## trekkerj

This looks like an WABC problem. I first noticed it a couple of weeks ago during Desperate Housewives.


----------



## Paperboy2003

I too had the green 'banding' or splotchiness. I posted something in the Lost forum, but I really should've put in here. Glad I wasn't the only one. I too thought it might be my Hr10-250.


WHEW!


D


----------



## Infominister

I spoke to a WABC engineer who confirmed that the interference did originate with the local broadcast. They're working on it.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I spoke to a WABC engineer who confirmed that the interference did originate with the local broadcast. They're working on it.*



Thanks s2silber!.............and thank you Mr./Ms. WABC engineer!


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *There is not problems and further delays with the combiner...*



Hello....dm145...care to expand on that message? I know that it was wriiten that low power testing was set to begin this week....and its thursday. Are the tests they are running this week not going to make a difference in our sigs?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Hello....dm145...care to expand on that message? I know that it was wriiten that low power testing was set to begin this week....and its thursday. Are the tests they are running this week not going to make a difference in our sigs?*



I believe the tests are scheduled for the week of the 13th which is next week.


----------



## dturturro

I just received this encouraging news:


We just received word regarding HDTV transmissions. All Monday night primetime programming (8-10), Veronica Mars, Kevin Hill, and the Friday night episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise, will be aired in HDTV effective December 13th.




Sincerely,



Viewer Services


----------



## trekkerj

dude, you made my day.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I just received this encouraging news:
> 
> 
> We just received word regarding HDTV transmissions. All Monday night primetime programming (8-10), Veronica Mars, Kevin Hill, and the Friday night episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise, will be aired in HDTV effective December 13th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> 
> Viewer Services*



Does say via OTA!


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Does say via OTA!*



Yes. I requested an ETA on when channel 38 would be going live.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Yes. I requested an ETA on when channel 38 would be going live.*



That sounds really really good......thanks for the info dturturro. Its so difficult to be patient.


----------



## dswallow

4 days, 32 minutes. And counting.


----------



## trekkerj

Are we sure they weren't talking about this?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=480510


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> *what is with that fox directional antenna? The map makes it look like they only want CT to receive it not NJ? Since it will have many times more power will it have similar coverage out here in western NJ as now?
> 
> 
> Bigger picture- unless someone in a neighboring market is also on your frequency why wouldnt you just have an omnidirectional broadcast?*



Fox says that they will be using elliptical polarization, which means that some of the almost one million watts (ERP) will be in the vertically polarized signal. The coverage will still be roughly what it is now. It takes A LOT of power to extend the coverage by just a few miles. Remember your math -- pi x r-squared. Power is roughly proportional to area.


Look here.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1028495.html


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *Fox says that they will be using elliptical polarization, which means that some of the almost one million watts (ERP) will be in the vertically polarized signal. The coverage will still be roughly what it is now. It takes A LOT of power to extend the coverage by just a few miles. Remember your math -- pi x r-squared. Power is roughly proportional to area.
> 
> 
> Look here.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1028495.html *



I don't particularly trust those service contour maps to indicate much of anything useful. For example, look at WPIX on VHF12 (now): http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DS619341.html 


Then look at WPIX on UHF33 (combiner): http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DS1003817.html 


Now, we can go blah blah blah about VHF frequencies needing far less power to cover the same area as higher frequencies, but WPIX is practically receivable by no one outside of a very limited area right now, yet if you took their service contour map to mean anything, you'd expect a great likelihood of receiving their signal inside that contour, especially far inside it.


The FCC says ( http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/MB/Databa...s/mapinfo.html ):



> Quote:
> These maps display the service contour for the FM or TV station that is generally protected from interference caused by other stations under the present FCC rules. However, interference-free reception is not guaranteed at all locations within this contour. Local conditions (for example buildings, terrain, receiver quality, type of receive antenna used) can influence reception of a radio signal.
> 
> 
> Service does not stop at this contour line. In most cases, FM or TV stations can be received at locations well beyond the location of the mapped contour, with interference-free reception becoming less likely at greater distances. As a result, most stations actually provide serve to a substantially greater area than depicted by this contour. However, reception in in areas outside of this service contour is not protected from interference caused by other authorized stations.



And that seems to be a significant understatement in this particular case.


So I can accept it represents an area the FCC will ensure has no signal interference from other stations on the same frequency, but it sure isn't even close to representing who might have a chance of actually receiving their broadcast, at least in the real world.


----------



## hphase

Yes, you have to take all this information with a grain of salt. The WPIX coverage maps show roughly the same area of coverage on channel 33 at both 160 kW and 260 kW, not very likely. But it is 2.5 times the coverage that shown for channel 12 at a measly 120 Watts(!)


I am also surprised that I receive WNJB on channel 8 with my UHF antenna. I am just barely within their service contour, at least by the FCC map.


Contrary to what you would expect, all these calculations and allocations don't always translate to receivability, as their disclaimer mentions. As you said, a lot of it has to do with protecting other stations from interference. That is, once they build their stations out to their maximum allocated power.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> *I DO want my antenna outside, I do, I do.
> 
> how do I decorate it the rest of the year so
> 
> the wife doesn't complain? Ideas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Well at least for a powerful antenna the 4228 is pretty low profile. You could even get the 4 bay unit. If you want to do some testing first you could buy one or two ten foot masts and prop the thing up next to the house with a roll of coax to see how it works. If it looks promising, roof it. The best thing that happens when it is up on the roof is it gets much more stable but I feel you pain; I no longer enjoy working on roof-top antennas as I used to.


----------



## spankle

Looks like I'll be up on the roof on the 13th to grab the combiner's transmission.


----------



## Scott G

There must have been some testing done on the combiner this afternoon. WCBS-DT was off the air for a time. It is now back on the air and is the signal is a little weaker.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *There must have been some testing done on the combiner this afternoon. WCBS-DT was off the air for a time. It is now back on the air and is the signal is a little weaker.*



I usually get cbs at 97...now Im getting it at around 93 -94.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *I usually get cbs at 97...now Im getting it at around 93 -94.*



Yeah, that sounds about right. That is about what it is for me. It is still a good signal just a little lower.


----------



## rlindabury

I was wondering what was going on with CBS today. I was re-scanning my channels on the Samsung SIR-T150 and I couldn't get anything from CBS.










At least now I know it was down and it wasn't my antenna or other hardware.


And for Lost wednesday, I had the exact same dropouts and I'm doing OTA into the Samsung.


For a while, every few seconds it was flickering data across the screen. Was annoying and had me concerned. Now I'm a bit relieved.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *There must have been some testing done on the combiner this afternoon. WCBS-DT was off the air for a time. It is now back on the air and is the signal is a little weaker.*



I thought CBS was not part of the combiner project?


----------



## SnellKrell

WCBS is the biggest and most important part of the combiner project.

The other stations will be using WCBS' antenna for their own transmissions!


Gary


----------



## trekkerj

Anyone heard whether or not we can expect anything new from the combiner (wwor 38, etc), in the near future? Anything happening this upcoming week? Don't know what kind of testing they were doing, but I haven't noticed a thing so far.


----------



## jcord51

I have a dish 921 that has recently been given a new software revision. I have a signal strengh of 77 for WABC (45) but can not get a picture to display when tuned into the station. Will it work on Monday? I live in Howard Beach.


----------



## Robert Packman

cbs-2 recently all over the scale vg power then drops and then back to good..anyone else notice


----------



## NS324

Same thing for me Robert. When it is steady, the signal registers lower than it did last week (which is when I last checked CBS).


----------



## Robert Packman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by NS324_
> *Same thing for me Robert. When it is steady, the signal registers lower than it did last week (which is when I last checked CBS).*



I hope this is just for a few days.If not,i have lost my best OTA (as far as Programming)


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by NS324_
> *Same thing for me Robert. When it is steady, the signal registers lower than it did last week (which is when I last checked CBS).*



I noticed on Friday WCBS-DT went off the air for a while in the afternoon. When it came back the signal was a little lower. I wonder if this has something to do with combiner work ?


----------



## Robert Packman

my signal was bouncing as i watched(yesterday) 94-65-93-47 like that..something is screwey..hope they get it fixed


----------



## trekkerj

Nice to see WABC fixed their flashing line video problems.


NOT.


Perhaps when the combiner goes online it will go away. I imagine that a completely new set of equipment will be used from the ESB.


----------



## icemannyr

I noticed that line issue two weeks ago, it was also then that WABC kept switching to the HD video and audio test loop.


NYPD Blue also also had problems this week so I watched the analog WABC-TV feed.


Here's a still of the line on WABC-DT tonight:


----------



## Maggot

Greetings from 10514 Mt Kisco, 32 miles north NYC. I have a 20 year old large RS yagi roofmounted (elevation 650') rarely used for OTA VHF these 2 decades.

I *believe* it has UHF coverage (a V-shaped tail with multiple small elements suggests it, I hope) but I use BUD as there was no cable b/o inadequate population density here '86. We are in woods w 4 acres and lots of deer ticks.


Well, anxious to timeshift HD somehow, I just got the new JVC DVCR "DT-100" with an intrinsic ATSC tuner (my CRT is HD-ready only). C-band HD is gorgeous, but no way to timeshift it yet. For me, that means it is a mere curiosity to show off to visitors. Until I can timeshift it I won't watch it.


The DT-100 digital tuner Auto-Setup says that there are no DTV signals coming off my RS Yagi - nothing of significance (bar graph says sig strength is 
So I hope for better times when the transmissions switch to the Empire State antenna. Even then I guess I may need a Pre-amp so I got one at the Bed Hills RS today.


We'll see.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maggot_
> *I have a 20 year old large RS yagi roofmounted (elevation 650') rarely used for OTA VHF these 2 decades.
> 
> I *believe* it has UHF coverage (a V-shaped tail with multiple small elements suggests it, I hope)*



I would suggest hooking the antenna up to a TV and seeing if any analog UHF stations come in. Channel 41 from Empire would be a good one to try.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *I noticed that line issue two weeks ago, it was also then that WABC kept switching to the HD video and audio test loop.
> 
> 
> NYPD Blue also also had problems this week so I watched the analog WABC-TV feed.
> 
> 
> Here's a still of the line on WABC-DT tonight:
> *



funny- but i think the green lines might be a network issue. Either that or all the stations have the same crappy setup. ABC out of philly does the same thing. I havent personally seen any where the line is as thick as the above still, but it frequently happens that a thin green line flips accross the screen for a split second and then goes away. Doesnt happen regularly but it is fairly often. I have never seen it on any other channel. Just ABC.


----------



## dm145

Anyone check UPN today? 38-1


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Anyone check UPN today? 38-1*



I ran a search today at about 6am and there was no difference (except PXN didn't come in as well).


----------



## trekkerj

I don't think there's anything to indicate that it would come on today. The previous post about December 13th likely has nothing to do with WWOR. UPN is expanding it's HD lineup tonight, and I think that was what the email response was about.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Anyone check UPN today? 38-1*



Shall be funny to see how many posts regarding the Combiner and 12/13 come in today










Sadly, I'm too skeptical to even check on a daily basis anymore


----------



## Scott G

I am starting to get pessimistic about this combiner thing again. I saw no evidence of any testing last week. There is no new station like WWOR or WPIX on today. Why do I think that this combiner thing has lost steam again.


----------



## frank bavaro

hd newbie with a few questions....., please

just upgraded my service with d* on saturday to hdtv packages

i live in staten island , very close to new jersey.... - i bought the ota ant as well,

my local hd (ny) chs werent coming in , i recieved NJ local - tech (installer) said it was becasue of when the twin towers went down , no new antenna has gone up - so , in my area , i cnnot recieve ota hd signals - true ? or a fairy tale ?

what is up with ch 7 (ABC) could not get desp housewives in hd - what will be with mnf tonight ? - will that answer be the sdaem as my 1st question ?

why only some (10 - i think) sunday ticket games are in hd ? why not all ?

why was i able to see jets/steelers in hd and not giants/ravens - both were offered in hd from d* - i understand i probab was blacked out for the giants , but then why not for jets ?

thanks for any help or replies - very frustrated and not nearly as excited as i thought i'd be...


----------



## Paperboy2003

The channels are being broadcast in HD. ABC from the Conde Nast tower. NBC from GE bldg and Fox and CBS from Empire State Bldg. There will be a migration shortly of all of these channels to the ESB once the combiner project is complete. You just getting into this now saves you many headaches as most of us have been waiting for the project to be completed and running. Word is, if you can trust it, that the project will be up and running shortly.


Time will tell...


----------



## frank bavaro

sorry, but what is "ESB" and, if i'm am getting cbs and nbc in hd , WHY am i not recieving - abc or fox ?

thx for your reply, btw


----------



## scottte

ESB=empire state building


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *I am starting to get pessimistic about this combiner thing again. I saw no evidence of any testing last week. There is no new station like WWOR or WPIX on today. Why do I think that this combiner thing has lost steam again.*



The only inference that the combiner would be up today came from that one e-mail from UPN about network HD programming being expanded on Dec. 13. That really had nothing to do with Channel 38 or the combiner, in particular. Last week, I spoke to engineers at two different New York stations, all of whom said the same thing -- that they're shooting for getting the combiner project on line by the end of this month. No guarantees, but that's the goal. It's a lot more definitive than anything said before, so even if the Dec. 31 goal isn't met, we do know that the project is in its final stages of completion.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frank bavaro_
> *what is up with ch 7 (ABC) could not get desp housewives in hd - what will be with mnf tonight ? - will that answer be the sdaem as my 1st question ?*



Maybe you need a better antenna or you are not aiming in the right spot, or tuned to the wrong channel? CBS and FOX are both broadcasting from the ESB (Empire State Building). ABC is from atop of 4 Times Square and should be plenty strong enough for you.



> Quote:
> *why only some (10 - i think) sunday ticket games are in hd ? why not all ?*



Because there are only so many HD trucks to go around (which you need at the stadium in order to produce in HD), not every game can be in HD. Also, there is only so much bandwidth available on DirecTV's satellites. They are already running very thin and have to overcompress just to get 10. Be happy you have that at least. Until they launch more satellites next year, this will be the case. But that is a topic for the programming forum, not here.


----------



## frank bavaro

thx for your answers- i'll keep learning and trying


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frank bavaro_
> *hd newbie with a few questions....., please
> 
> just upgraded my service with d* on saturday to hdtv packages
> 
> i live in staten island , very close to new jersey.... - i bought the ota ant as well,
> 
> my local hd (ny) chs werent coming in , i recieved NJ local - tech (installer) said it was becasue of when the twin towers went down , no new antenna has gone up - so , in my area , i cnnot recieve ota hd signals - true ? or a fairy tale ?
> 
> what is up with ch 7 (ABC) could not get desp housewives in hd - what will be with mnf tonight ? - will that answer be the sdaem as my 1st question ?
> 
> why only some (10 - i think) sunday ticket games are in hd ? why not all ?
> 
> why was i able to see jets/steelers in hd and not giants/ravens - both were offered in hd from d* - i understand i probab was blacked out for the giants , but then why not for jets ?
> 
> thanks for any help or replies - very frustrated and not nearly as excited as i thought i'd be...*




OTA issues sound like you have a clueless installer - There are lots of D* subscribers in Staten Island getting NYC locals in HD ota.


I had a clueless installer too (see my post in the HDTV hardware forum) when it came to OTA - they brought some cheapo winegard "green" rated antenna ( I am in blue zone), and they didn't even put the power supply on the antenna (it says right on it "Amplified Antenna - 12v) - and I got Zilch/nada/nothing/zero. I called D*, asked them what the extra $49 I paid for the OTA antenna was for, and they gave me a credit for it. I used that $$ to buy a decent OTA antenna/preamp - and now I'm happy as a clam.


----------



## frank bavaro

my guy a wineguard up for me as well

i have no idea wheather or not he "powered" it

what is the deal with diff colored zones or ratings ?


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frank bavaro_
> *what is the deal with diff colored zones or ratings ?*


 http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/antenna.aspx?color=R


----------



## MJConnel




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maggot_
> *The DT-100 digital tuner Auto-Setup says that there are no DTV signals coming off my RS Yagi - nothing of significance (bar graph says sig strength is
> So I hope for better times when the transmissions switch to the Empire State antenna. Even then I guess I may need a Pre-amp so I got one at the Bed Hills RS today.*



What type of cable do you have connected to your antenna? I suggest you upgrade it to RG-6 before trying to add an amp. As for better times, currently WCBS-DT (56) is broadcasting from the ESB at high power, so I don't expect you will see an improvement when the combiner is activated.


----------



## dan57

Frank, I am in East Brunswick, NJ - just over the Outerbridge Crossing from Staten Island. I usually get CBS, ABC and FOX rock solid. I get NBC with a slightly weaker signal, but generally quite useable. I get UPN good on 5-2, but they have no HD yet (I hear that is about to change). I can't get WB-11 or WNET-13 at all.


I would think that you should expect similar results where you are. I have a Channel Master UHF antenna on the roof with a pre-amp.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I just received this encouraging news:
> 
> 
> We just received word regarding HDTV transmissions. All Monday night primetime programming (8-10), Veronica Mars, Kevin Hill, and the Friday night episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise, will be aired in HDTV effective December 13th.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> 
> Viewer Services*



This is the post that started "the combiner is ready rumors". Off with his head! It says nothing about NYC OTA.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *Frank, I am in East Brunswick, NJ - just over the Outerbridge Crossing from Staten Island. I usually get CBS, ABC and FOX rock solid. I get NBC with a slightly weaker signal, but generally quite useable. I get UPN good on 5-2, but they have no HD yet (I hear that is about to change). I can't get WB-11 or WNET-13 at all.
> 
> 
> I would think that you should expect similar results where you are. I have a Channel Master UHF antenna on the roof with a pre-amp.*



To add to this thought, my parents are in Huguenot. I set up an OTA antenna for them and (currently) they can pick up 2-1/4-1:2/5-1:2/7-1:2 solidly. Occassionally they can pick up some of the NJN HD channels as well even though the RS Yagi (19.99 UHF ONLY) antenna is pointed towards NYC. I DID NOT hook up a pre-amp either. I gave them a Samsung OTA T-151 (???) STB.


Which D* HD receiver do you have???


----------



## vinnyv07

I live in Great Kills in SI and Im getting CBS, FOX, ABC , UPN(not HD) and some PBS stations in the 50's and PAX. NBC is a no show for me ...I have tried and tried. I have a UHF ANT mounted up on my roof around 20 ft up with a 10 ft mast. Im getting NBCDT through Directv and still really never watch it. NBC's HD just isnt worth the bother. I would like to get UPN in HD just to see what Star Trek looks like on Friday nights. WNET would be nice also...but I guess we are all going to have to be patient and wait. We waited so long thus far...whats another 2 weeks or 2 mths.... I was looking foward to some combiner testing.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *This is the post that started "the combiner is ready rumors". Off with his head! It says nothing about NYC OTA.*



Actually, the post that started this all was this one:


WCBS DT to return to 24/7 HD (on D*, too!)

After reading countless posts criticizing either WCBS (or DirecTV) for the CBS HD East feed signing off at midnight ET, I thought it might be a good thing to post the reason.

It has nothing at all to do with CBS being cheap. And everything to do with CBS being helpful to its fellow stations in the wake of 9/11. And now, within the next couple of weeks, it is going to end, and WCBS DT will be on air in HD 24/7.


Soon: 24/7 WCBS DT on DirecTV

Broadcasters Pull Together

CBS helps five New York stations return to DTV broadcasts


By Ken Kerschbaumer Broadcasting & Cable 12/6/2004


For the first time since 9/11, five New York City broadcasters will begin full-power, over-the-air DTV broadcasts. That’s thanks to CBS, which is letting competitive stations transmit their signals through its Empire State Building antenna.


WABC, WNBC, WWOR, WPIX and WNET lost their DTV facilities when the World Trade Center was destroyed. With available real estate atop the Empire State Building and WCBS willing to grant access to its DTV antenna, the stations decided it was a logical place to build DTV facilities.


This week, low-power tests will measure performance and ensure that the antenna can handle the move to high power. The week of Dec. 13, the facility will be up and running to accommodate some high-power testing, although not all stations have finished installation of their transmitters. Davis says WABC will be at full power by the end of the year. “For the first time since 9/11, we’ll be able to broadcast at our full licensed power.”


The end of the project actually has ramifications outside of New York. Throughout the project, WCBS(DT) signed off at midnight to accommodate workers. The problem: WCBS(DT) is used by DirecTV to serve the entire nation. “At midnight, the country goes dark. Once the work is completed,” says Seidel, “we’ll be 24/7.”



If you re-read it, last week was for low power test and this week was for high power testing. The problem is nobody knows what form those tests will take. Fox' E-mail listing 12/13 as a date simply reinforced what we thought (or hoped) would be the go live date for the combiner.


Also, upon re-reading the E-mail I noticed something disturbing, the E-mail says December 13th. It did not say December 13th , 2004!


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Shall be funny to see how many posts regarding the Combiner*



the who?!


----------



## shappyss

just noticed that 5-2 stopped showing UPN and is now showing a copy of fox


----------



## SnellKrell

As of 8:20 p.m., O-T-A, 5.2 is broadcasting UPN, Channel 9 per usual.


Gary


----------



## shappyss

it says UPN but the programing is the same as FOX


----------



## SnellKrell

Not on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.


Just double checked. 5.2 is Channel 9, not Fox Channel 5!


Gary


----------



## shappyss

im watching trading spouses on 5.2 and switching between 5.1 and 5 and it is the same show... i am on long island... can anyone else confirm thhis or am i going crazy hoping for the combiner


----------



## dm145

shappyss - something must be wrong with your tuner?


----------



## shappyss

im gonna check on my other hd box and see whats going on


----------



## dm145

When did CBS wake up and start doing 5.1 ? Just noticed that CSI Miami sounds great.


----------



## trekkerj

Tonight. See my thread in the programming forum. Another nice surprise.


----------



## Maggot

" I would suggest hooking the antenna up to a TV and seeing if any analog UHF stations come in. Channel 41 from Empire would be a good one to try."-Boggs


Great tip.

I saw other posts here and went to CEA fror a site map and was so pleased that there is a UHF sta in Poughkeepsie 10 miles nearer than NYC (just 22 miles) *and* ...it's digital PBS! : my main objective!!

It is north, tho, and my yagi points S at NYC. Also a hillock N of here rises abt 10 degrees... I believe these transmissions are line-of-sight Boggs?

I have a fine ham array, HF dipole... and a 2 meter (142MHz) Yagi pointing North! Hmmmm.

Listen, Boggs: just how important an improvement are you guys expecting from the migration of services to the ESTB array when it happens? Is it thought likely to be dramatic?

That CEA site is very nice.

Thanks again for all your helpful guidance.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maggot_
> *" I would suggest hooking the antenna up to a TV and seeing if any analog UHF stations come in. Channel 41 from Empire would be a good one to try."-Boggs
> 
> 
> Great tip.
> 
> I saw other posts here and went to CEA fror a site map and was so pleased that there is a UHF sta in Poughkeepsie 10 miles nearer than NYC (just 22 miles) *and* ...it's digital PBS! : my main objective!!
> 
> It is north, tho, and my yagi points S at NYC. Also a hillock N of here rises abt 10 degrees... I believe these transmissions are line-of-sight Boggs?
> 
> I have a fine ham array, HF dipole... and a 2 meter (142MHz) Yagi pointing North! Hmmmm.
> 
> Listen, Boggs: just how important an improvement are you guys expecting from the migration of services to the ESTB array when it happens? Is it thought likely to be dramatic?
> 
> That CEA site is very nice.
> 
> Thanks again for all your helpful guidance.*



Umm... there is no digital PBS stations in Poughkeepsie my friend. There is only a low-powered analog translator, W42AE, for WMHT-17 in Albany. It's at 19.3 kW, but it's analog.


Sorry.


- Trip


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *When did CBS wake up and start doing 5.1 ? Just noticed that CSI Miami sounds great.*



A good surprise - but my CBS signal has really gone down the tubes in the last week - I've gone from 80% signal to mid-60's - no other stations have been affected. Once I hit about 62%, I start getting dropouts - I've had to switch to D* channel 80...ugh.


Only problem with the 5.1 on CBS is their center channel is set too low - when I turn the volume up where I can hear the dialogue, the sound effects/music from the sides blow my wife out of bed upstairs... and she starts screaming for me to turn it down. Don't have that issue on other 5.1's - so I hate to readjust my receiver.


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *A good surprise - but my CBS signal has really gone down the tubes in the last week - I've gone from 80% signal to mid-60's - no other stations have been affected. Once I hit about 62%, I start getting dropouts - I've had to switch to D* channel 80...ugh.
> 
> 
> Only problem with the 5.1 on CBS is their center channel is set too low - when I turn the volume up where I can hear the dialogue, the sound effects/music from the sides blow my wife out of bed upstairs... and she starts screaming for me to turn it down. Don't have that issue on other 5.1's - so I hate to readjust my receiver.*



You know I thought that it was me. After watching CBS I pulled out the old sound meter thinking someone must have messed with my setting only to find that they were set correctly. I was going to do some more intense checking this evening. Thanks for saving me some time.


----------



## Bogney Baux

I was given permission to post the following by the project manager.

This information is current as of 12-14. There is always the possibility of delays.


WCBS-DT is currently operating through the combiner.

WWOR-DT may be on the air Thursday.

WPIX-DT and WNBC-DT on the air relatively soon thereafter.

WABC-DT by the end of the year.

WNET-DT sometime next year.


----------



## dm145

That may explain why some see lower signal strength on CBS. Over all, great to hear.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

Thanks for the update!


----------



## trekkerj

Thanks for the info. As always, we will keep on scanning.







Hopefully, Enterprise in HD Friday (it's a repeat, but still...)


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *That may explain why some see lower signal strength on CBS. Over all, great to hear.*



Why would there be lower signal strength if operating through the combiner?


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *That may explain why some see lower signal strength on CBS.*



Why would that explain lower signal strength on WCBS-DT?


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I was given permission to post the following by the project manager.
> 
> This information is current as of 12-14. There is always the possibility of delays.
> 
> 
> WCBS-DT is currently operating through the combiner.
> 
> WWOR-DT may be on the air Thursday.
> 
> WPIX-DT and WNBC-DT on the air relatively soon thereafter.
> 
> WABC-DT by the end of the year.
> 
> WNET-DT sometime next year.*



Great news, Bogney !


I have no problems getting WABC nor WCBS. Can't wait for WPIX, WNBC and WWOR !


----------



## plasmafan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Why would that explain lower signal strength on WCBS-DT?*



Because "sharing" is always a compromise. The trade-off of having all the other stations on the same antenna as CBS is that the WCBS signal strength may not be a high as it once was. Also the antenna pattern may have shifted slightly. I'm still getting WCBS-DT at %84 in Huntington.


----------



## Infominister

So, then, how long has WCBS been on the combiner? For me, WCBS's signal strength, steadiness and reliability hasn't been what it used to be for several months now. I now get WABC the strongest, and as the only one of the "Big Three" networks NOT available on DirecTV, I'm afraid that it won't be as reliable as it is now off the Conde Nast building.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by plasmafan_
> *Because "sharing" is always a compromise. The trade-off of having all the other stations on the same antenna as CBS is that the WCBS signal strength may not be a high as it once was. Also the antenna pattern may have shifted slightly. I'm still getting WCBS-DT at %84 in Huntington.*



Don't forget that they are doing low power tests this week and if all goes well full power tests next week.


I don't think we should worry about power level just yet... lets wait until everyone is on the new gear.


----------



## SnellKrell

I doubt that "sharing" is causing WCBS' strength to be lower lately.

That is not the philosophy and the physics behind combiners. My suspicion is that while people are working up there, the power at times is being compromised. And once all the bells, whistles, pipes and cables are installed, tested and running, we then will be able to truly judge the strength and quality of the various signals.


Although Viacom, the owner of WCBS, wants to help the other stations, I am sure that in no way would it allow its signal to be diminished - just to help or even to get some compensation from competing television stations.


Gary


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *My suspicion is that while people are working up there, the power at times is being compromised. And once all the bells, whistles, pipes and cables are installed, tested and running, we then will be able to truly judge the strength and quality of the various signals.
> *



Your suspicion agrees with what I have been told. WCBS-DT is not 100% in all directions at the moment.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I was given permission to post the following by the project manager.
> 
> This information is current as of 12-14. There is always the possibility of delays.
> 
> 
> WCBS-DT is currently operating through the combiner.
> 
> WWOR-DT may be on the air Thursday.
> 
> WPIX-DT and WNBC-DT on the air relatively soon thereafter.
> 
> WABC-DT by the end of the year.
> 
> WNET-DT sometime next year.*



So I guess this means we will not have WPIX-DT back on in time for the Wizard of Oz on Sunday 12/19.


----------



## Infominister

It depends what "relatively soon thereafter" means.


----------



## dm145

Between Thursday and end of year


----------



## Maggot

I know I am a rank newbie here: almost beneath contempt. I don't require reassurances over the class system, but I do need to apologize for what follows: it may be old-hat, ignorant, and even plain wrong.


There's much excitement in the air re: the anticpated performance of the newer Dig UHF feeds by network broadcasters since they're shifting to the ESB's antennas. Already there even, tho at low power as they set up. You still hope for enhanced reception as transmit power ramps up.


Ham radio enthusiasts (tho I am not well versed in the world above 50 MHz) place great emphasis on the *small* importance of transmission power, and a part of the hobby delights in demonstrating that antenna designs of decent elegance are as effective at very lower power ("QRP") than at high power. The reverse logic is also true in my experience (tho I repeat my world is below 50MHz) namely: if it sucks at 100w it'll suck only slight less at a KW.


My own UHF reception is bad (useless bad) and I'll a better signal to get ATSC at all... but if the only remaing tweak from the provider side is to be "higher power" I'm not feeling encouraged to hear it. It'd mean I need to improve my own ant/receiver.


----------



## Maggot

I know I am a rank newbie here: almost beneath contempt. I don't require reassurances over the class system, but I do need to apologize for what follows: it may be old-hat, ignorant, and even plain wrong.


There's much excitement in the air re: the anticpated performance of the newer Dig UHF feeds by network broadcasters since they're shifting to the ESB's antennas. Already there even, tho at low power as they set up. You still hope for enhanced reception as transmit power ramps up.


Ham radio enthusiasts (tho I am not well versed in the world above 50 MHz) place great emphasis on the *small* importance of transmission power, and a part of the hobby delights in demonstrating that antenna designs of decent elegance are as effective at very lower power ("QRP") than at high power. The reverse logic is also true in my experience (tho I repeat my world is below 50MHz) namely: if it sucks at 100w it'll suck only slight less at a KW.


My own UHF reception is bad (useless bad) and I'll need a better signal if I'm to see OTA HD at all... but if the only remaining tweak from the provider side is "higher power" I'm not feeling encouraged to hear it: for it'd mean to me that I'll need to improve my *own* ant/receiver.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maggot_
> *I know I am a rank newbie here: almost beneath contempt. I don't require reassurances over the class system, but I do need to apologize for what follows: it may be old-hat, ignorant, and even plain wrong.
> 
> 
> There's much excitement in the air re: the anticpated performance of the newer Dig UHF feeds by network broadcasters since they're shifting to the ESB's antennas. Already there even, tho at low power as they set up. You still hope for enhanced reception as transmit power ramps up.
> 
> 
> Ham radio enthusiasts (tho I am not well versed in the world above 50 MHz) place great emphasis on the *small* importance of transmission power, and a part of the hobby delights in demonstrating that antenna designs of decent elegance are as effective at very lower power ("QRP") than at high power. The reverse logic is also true in my experience (tho I repeat my world is below 50MHz) namely: if it sucks at 100w it'll suck only slight less at a KW.
> 
> 
> My own UHF reception is bad (useless bad) and I'll a better signal to get ATSC at all... but if the only remaing tweak from the provider side is to be "higher power" I'm not feeling encouraged to hear it. It'd mean I need to improve my own ant/receiver.*



WCBS and WNYW are already on the ESB at full power, so they are not a factor.


WNBC is at 10.5 kW from the top of the GE building, which is rather short compared to the ESB. Plus, 10.5 kW isn't that much either.


WABC will see much less improvement, being that it, too, is on a shorter building/tower, but is at 400 kW.


WWOR isn't even on the air, so it stands to show the greatest improvement (obviously).


WPIX is at 125w on channel 12 from the SIDE of the ESB. Compare that to 160,000w on channel 33 from all sides.


WNET is at 2.66 kW from the roof of its studios, with a directional array to put ALL of its signal toward Newark.


To say that the ESB will not improve reception much is a lie. But I will agree with you on one point. There is a certain amount of power with digital where you cover the whole coverage area. After that point, you are only making it easier, not actually expanding coverage. But that's not the factor here, as most of the stations are not at a good transmitter site or at enough power to pass that threshold.


- Trip


----------



## George Thompson

Maggot,

From what I gather WCBS DT is not at full power during this trial phase. But I doubt it will increase more than 3db at your location. Everyone will benefit from higher power and antenna height. In the would above 50 MHz line of sight is important. The additional height will give a larger contour to the coverage area. However, in the world above 50 MHz shadows caused by mountains and structures are more common. So, you gotta get your antenna up on a mast for better reception in those hilly Northern Westchester environs. As I remember you have a lot of shadows up in your neck of the woods. I know my motherinlaw does in Heritage Hills. Good luck.

de, WB9YRR

George


----------



## frank bavaro

whoo hooo !!!!

d* guy just left and sure enough my ota wasn't aligned properly

i can now recieve local hd chs 2 ,4, , 5, 7, 9 and 11 !!!!!!!


----------



## slocko

So 9 is up?


----------



## trekkerj

I think he means 5-2.


----------



## slocko

is scanning for OTA stations necessary if you know their channel number?


in other words, do I need to scan to pick up 9-1 once the combiner is up, or can I simply just punch in 9-1 and my receiver will lock on to the signal (provided I can receive it of course)


i know it sounds like a stupid question


----------



## SnellKrell

I know that most of us have "combiner-envy" but please, let's be careful in announcing that new signals are available when they are not.


Gary


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *is scanning for OTA stations necessary if you know their channel number?
> 
> 
> in other words, do I need to scan to pick up 9-1 once the combiner is up, or can I simply just punch in 9-1 and my receiver will lock on to the signal (provided I can receive it of course)
> 
> 
> i know it sounds like a stupid question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



It *may* depend on your type of receiver. I know with my Hughes E86's I'm pretty sure I have to type in the actual station assignment (i.e. 28-1 for NBC's 4-1, 45-1 for ABC's 7-1 etc...) the FIRST time I tried to receive that station.


After it "gets" that there's a signal on 4-1, it will automatically "tune" to it....if that makes sense...


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *is scanning for OTA stations necessary if you know their channel number?
> 
> 
> in other words, do I need to scan to pick up 9-1 once the combiner is up, or can I simply just punch in 9-1 and my receiver will lock on to the signal (provided I can receive it of course)
> 
> 
> i know it sounds like a stupid question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



My limited understanding is that the actual RF station (NBC uses 28, for example) is usually scanned for. The signal itself then provides the mapping information for the tuner to put it on 4-1. My TV has a general scan, which looks for anything out there, though it takes forever. To find NBC, I have to scan for 28.


----------



## John Mason

Since I need to orient my Silver Sensor to tune stations, plus study an on-screen graphic showing signal/multpath peaks and several locked-in readouts, I tune each station's UHF frequency separately.


They've no doubt been posted here earlier, but to get a UHF list for later upcoming E.S.B. station activations, I logged onto antennaweb.org, got a list of all local stations, selected the digital-only option, and printed them out. Just takes a moment. [Edit: See a simultaneous post has provided them]-- John


----------



## tincan

What real channel numbers (like 56 for CBS) should we be scanning to see when new signals may be coming up due to combiner activity?


This is what I have from antennaweb, but some things don't match up.


The message told us:

WCBS-DT is currently operating through the combiner.

Real 56 Digital Number 2-1

WABC-DT by the end of the year.

Real 45 Digital Number 7-1, 7-2

WNBC-DT OTA soon, before end of year.

Real 28 Digital Number 4-1

WPIX-DT OTA soon, before end of year.

Real 33 Digital Number 11-1

WWOR-DT may be OTA Thursday Dec-16.

Real 38 Digital Number 9-1?

WNET-DT sometime next year.

Real 61 Digital Number 13-1?

[Edit: Thanks people]


Are these the only stations that will be on the combiner? What is the rest of the real and digital numbers? Are any of them VHF?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tincan_
> *What real channel numbers (like 56 for CBS) should we be scanning to see when new signals may be coming up due to combiner activity?
> 
> 
> This is what I have from antennaweb, but some things don't match up.
> 
> 
> The message told us:
> 
> WCBS-DT is currently operating through the combiner.
> 
> Real 56 Digital Number 2-1
> 
> WABC-DT by the end of the year.
> 
> Real 45 Digital Number 7-1, 7-2
> 
> WNBC-DT OTA soon, before end of year.
> 
> Real 28 Digital Number 4-1
> 
> WPIX-DT OTA soon, before end of year.
> 
> Real is it 33? Digital Number 11-1
> 
> WWOR-DT may be OTA Thursday Dec-16.
> 
> Real ?? Digital Number 9-1?
> 
> WNET-DT sometime next year.
> 
> Real ?? Digital Number 13-1?
> 
> 
> 
> Are these the only stations that will be on the combiner? What is the rest of the real and digital numbers? Are any of them VHF?*



UPN will be on 38 & WNET will be on 61.


----------



## SnellKrell

WPIX-DT = Channel 33

WWOR-DT = Channel 38

WNET-DT = Channel 61


You have listed all of the stations that currently will be on the combiner.

All of them are UHF stations.


Gary


----------



## cpufixer1

Can anyone tell me why WWOR shows up on 5-2 and not 9-1 ?


----------



## trekkerj

Because it is currently a subchannel of WNYW-DT. It has not had its own transmittter since 9/11. That will be changing very soon.


----------



## dm145

We hope it will change soon.


----------



## Gary Quiring

I just did a scan (12/16 8:40am) and I still don't see UPN (9-1). What time was the it scheduled to go on?


----------



## frank bavaro

my fault guys, sorry - i was at work and listened to the d* guy and babysitter

checked it out when i got home - no ch 9 or 11 - again sorry

the others look great though !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## slocko

what is the purpose of 5-2? The content is the same as 9 and the quality same or worse. Is it only to comply with the FCC?



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Because it is currently a subchannel of WNYW-DT. It has not had its own transmittter since 9/11. That will be changing very soon.*


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, it's merely to comply with the FCC for WWOR to transmit a digital signal - nothing more.


Gary


----------



## dturturro

4:17PM and no WWOR-DT










Unless they're waiting for prime-time I guess we're on delay number 1,234,567!


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *4:17PM and no WWOR-DT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless they're waiting for prime-time I guess we're on delay number 1,234,567!*



If I had to guess, I would actually think that they would turn on WWOR on the combiner on Friday. Kind of silly to turn it on today. There is no HD programming on UPN on Thursday nights.


Just my .02 and certainly not any kind of official information.


----------



## Scott G

With the rate of time that it has taken for this combiner project, should we be surprised if there is a delay in the stations actually being put on the combiner ?


If it takes as long as the combiner took to install we should have all the channels on the combiner by about 2008.


----------



## vinnyv07

JUST did a scan....nothing at all to report that is new. Im not very suprised. I hope Im wrong, but I dont feel that we will be watching Star Trek in HD on Friday night.


----------



## netman

There was a weak digital signal on 33 last night, too weak to tell but I assume it was PIX. Since I never normally check it I do not know if that is unusual or not. I would guess they don't normally run that transmitter since they have 12 on the air. If it is not normal for them to run 33 they may have been ramping up. I see nothing tonight but the signal was quite weak here in western Suffolk; it could be there now and too weak for me to tell.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *There was a weak digital signal on 33 last night, too weak to tell but I assume it was PIX. Since I never normally check it I do not know if that is unusual or not. I would guess they don't normally run that transmitter since they have 12 on the air. If it is not normal for them to run 33 they may have been ramping up. I see nothing tonight but the signal was quite weak here in western Suffolk; it could be there now and too weak for me to tell.*



You were probably picking up the CBS affiliate out of Maryland/Delaware. When tropo is working just right I've picked this up in the past.


----------



## dm145

It says may be on Thursday!


WCBS-DT is currently operating through the combiner.

WWOR-DT may be on the air Thursday.

WPIX-DT and WNBC-DT on the air relatively soon thereafter.

WABC-DT by the end of the year.

WNET-DT sometime next year.


Did anyone really think it would happen?


----------



## slocko

Is WPIX WB? Do you mean I might be able to record Smallville in HD????


Wow Enterprise and Smallville in HD.


It's getting harder and harder to put up with SD these days.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *There was a weak digital signal on 33 last night, too weak to tell but I assume it was PIX. Since I never normally check it I do not know if that is unusual or not. I would guess they don't normally run that transmitter since they have 12 on the air. If it is not normal for them to run 33 they may have been ramping up. I see nothing tonight but the signal was quite weak here in western Suffolk; it could be there now and too weak for me to tell.*



Channel 33 is the channel of WFSB-DT in Hartford, also, is it not?


- Trip


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> I hope Im wrong, but I dont feel that we will be watching Star Trek in HD on Friday night.



Which Friday night do mean ? Which year ?










Please excuse my skepticism, but this combiner has been so on going and so many delays I just won't believe any of these stations are actually coming on until we see them.


----------



## Maynard

Did someone say CBS was going through the combiner? If so, I hope its not at 100%, as I can no longer receive it in Media Center with a Fusion Card. I am about 62 miles north of NYC. Hopefully, they are still tuning the antenna and this is a temporary thing.


On the bright side, fox seems to be coming in much better than it used to.


Oh well,


-maynard


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maynard_
> *
> 
> 
> On the bright side, fox seems to be coming in much better than it used to.*



merely coinsidence-- fox is not even involved with this project, they have their own antenna for their HD signal elsewhere on the tower @ ESB.


----------



## MAB

I am receiving FOX for the first time here. Maybe coincidence but it works now. It never worked before.


----------



## mishagray

WCBS-DT 56 is gone. At 0%.

Its even gone from DirecTV's feed, which is kind of funny in a way.



WNBC-DT 28 (4-1) is fine.

WABC-DT 45 (7-1) is fine.

WXTV-DT 40 (41-1) is fine.

WNYW-DT 44 (5-1) is fine.


----------



## SnellKrell

It has been discussed previously here that WCBS-DT goes dark to allow work on the combiner. Also, what seems strange, is that DirecTV gets its feed of WCBS-DT O-T-A, not by way of a dedicated feed - therefore, CBS-DT East on DirecTV also goes dark.


I specifically got up early this morning to to see if there were anything new with the combiner. Unfortunately, the answer is NO!


I guess the schedule that we were all counting on is out of the window.


After the tragedy of 9/11 - with stations trying to get their analogue signals back on the air first and foremost, I still find it so frustrating that the world's number one media market can't get its act together in a timely manner.


I'm sure that there are a lot of dedicated engineers and others working on the combiner who share our frustration - I guess we have to adopt the philosophy when it happens, it happens - and leave it at that.


There's not a thing that we can do!


Gary


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *You were probably picking up the CBS affiliate out of Maryland/Delaware. When tropo is working just right I've picked this up in the past.*





> Quote:
> *Channel 33 is the channel of WFSB-DT in Hartford, also, is it not?
> 
> - Trip
> *



It could have been either. Kind of hard to say but the 4228 is incredibly directional; signals would need to be very strong to come in off the side like that. Too bad I was too lazy to go to the rotor and check.


> Quote:
> *I guess the schedule that we were all counting on is out of the window.
> 
> -Gary*



Yeah, shocking isn't it!?


> Quote:
> *After the tragedy of 9/11 - with stations trying to get their analogue signals back on the air first and foremost, I still find it so frustrating that the world's number one media market can't get its act together in a timely manner.
> 
> 
> I'm sure that there are a lot of dedicated engineers and others working on the combiner who share our frustration - I guess we have to adopt the philosophy when it happens, it happens - and leave it at that.
> 
> 
> There's not a things that we can do!
> 
> 
> Gary
> *



Agreed


-Andy


----------



## dm145

Gary,


"It has been discussed previously here that WCBS-DT goes dark to allow work on the combiner. Also, what seems strange, is that DirecTV gets its feed of WCBS-DT O-T-A, not by way of a dedicated feed - therefore, CBS-DT East on DirecTV also goes dark."


CBS announced that this will no longer be happening. I checked a few nights last week and they were on past mid-night. Last night may have been an exception.


----------



## bjohn

I'm sorry, BUT THERE IS NO COMBINER. It's all been a facade. Lie.


(sorry, this is not official word, but might as well be)










I think we should kick that moron who wrote that aricle. where did he get his information from anyway?



What I find SOOOO amazing is that the Spanish channels are always transmitting at excellent signal strength (granted not in HD)


----------



## dm145

I know,


I get 41-1, 68-1, and lately 71-1 all perfect.


----------



## frank bavaro

hd newbie with another question.....

what is the diff bet a digital signal(broadcast) and a HD one ?

i am a D* customer with OTA antenna getting , for example, 3 ch 7's from ny-

sat, analog ,and digital - of course digital looks best , but , there is no HD moniker on the info banner - i suppose whatever i was watching wasn't transmitted in hi-def ?

what is the resolution of a digital (non- hd) program vs. a program in HD ?

thanks

frank


----------



## dan57

Frank,


Here's a brief, and non-technical answer. I'm sure someone more knowagable and with time will answer more fully. HD is a subset of digital broadcasting. In other words, all HD broadcasts are digital, but all digital broadcasts are not HD. HD broadcast meet certain qualifications about resolution, aspect ratio, etc.


----------



## mikeny

I believe that the non-HD digital shows on ABC-DT are originally 480i and they are being upconverted at the station as 720p. That's why it appears to be 4:3. It's not true HD. It does look better than 480i SD though.


The station's equipment is much better the the televisions/receiver as far as the upconverting. For example I can set my Hughes HTL-HD receiver to transmit everything to my TV as 1080i no matter what the input signal. (I don't actually do that.) The station does something similar but its clearer.



On another note, I'm looking forward to the ESB combiner so I could check out WNET-DT and the NBC-DT 4.2, weather channel. (I have "4.1" through D*) Maybe, I'll start watching UPN if they get up there too.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frank bavaro_
> *hd newbie with another question.....
> 
> what is the diff bet a digital signal(broadcast) and a HD one ?
> 
> i am a D* customer with OTA antenna getting , for example, 3 ch 7's from ny-
> 
> sat, analog ,and digital - of course digital looks best , but , there is no HD moniker on the info banner - i suppose whatever i was watching wasn't transmitted in hi-def ?
> 
> what is the resolution of a digital (non- hd) program vs. a program in HD ?
> 
> thanks
> 
> frank*



I wouldn't pay too much attention to those little HD labels in your program guide. They are wrong a lot of the time.


Not everything is broadcast in HD. Most primetime shows, sporting events and a couple other exceptions are HD, everything else is standard definition. You'll know when you are watching HD. Standard definition is the same as what you are seeing on the regular analog channel, it's just transmitted digitally instead of analog. Standard def material can also can be upconverted by the station or your receiver, but it won't look much better because it's just the same image broken up into smaller pieces.


----------



## Infominister

WABC-DT's SD programming (local news, etc.) does look better than any other non-HD programming digitally broadcast on the other affiliates.


----------



## trekkerj

So, are we delayed yet again? Anyone have any update combiner info?


----------



## Johnr0836

All of this talk about the combiner reminds me of the store of the IBM salesman (main frame) who got married and after about a month of marriage his bride goes to a marriage councelor and tells the doctor that her groom has yet to consumate the marriage. The doctor asks "What happens when you go to bed" The women replies that my husband, the IBM salesman, sits at the foot of the bed and mumbles how great it's going to be once we get it in.


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> All of this talk about the combiner reminds me of the store of the IBM salesman (main frame) who got married and after about a month of marriage his bride goes to a marriage councelor and tells the doctor that her groom has yet to consumate the marriage. The doctor asks "What happens when you go to bed" The women replies that my husband, the IBM salesman, sits at the foot of the bed and mumbles how great it's going to be once we get it in.



Wow an actual joke..... Usually they're just blurbs or fragments of something funny. That had a defined beginning, middle and end with the punch line right where it counted!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *It could have been either. Kind of hard to say but the 4228 is incredibly directional; signals would need to be very strong to come in off the side like that. Too bad I was too lazy to go to the rotor and check.*



Although, it would help if there was a digital 33 in Delaware/Maryland to be receiving, wouldn't it?


- Trip


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *Although, it would help if there was a digital 33 in Delaware/Maryland to be receiving, wouldn't it?
> 
> 
> - Trip*



Sorry, that was channel 38 I was thinking of. Didn't mean to pi$$ in your Corn Flakes.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> *
> 
> 
> What I find SOOOO amazing is that the Spanish channels are always transmitting at excellent signal strength (granted not in HD)*



Isnt it crazy....the spanish stations that arent showing any HD are and have been coming in very strong for me. Im not even getting me hopes up for tonight ..I dont expect we will see any difference than what we have seen during the week. NOTHING


----------



## SnellKrell

Do the "combiner people" work on weekends?


"Combiner People" an invisible, alien race bent upon

killing all hopes and aspirations of Metropolitan New Yorkers!


Gary


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Do the "combiner people" work on weekends?
> 
> 
> "Combiner People" an invisible, alien race bent upon
> 
> killing all hopes and aspirations of Metropolitan New Yorkers!
> 
> 
> Gary*



It would be pure speculation, but usually the station engineers dont work wkends unless they are doing signal test, etc. or something that required powering down or affects the OTA signal that they would need to be doing at off peak hours or in coordination with other groups up there (Master FM group, etc)


i'd say get your hopes for something MAYBE before xmas but more then likely nothing major till after the holidays...


----------



## Ken Ross

Will this thread get to 300 pages before the combiner actually kicks in?


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Will this thread get to 300 pages before the combiner actually kicks in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



nah but it will once it is in, because then everyone will be posting how they still dont get the reception they want and complaining until the freedom tower gets built


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *Will this thread get to 300 pages before the combiner actually kicks in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Last week I posted "Will this thread get to 200 pages before the combiner..."


Maybe you are more realistic with your 300 guess.


----------



## Morg111

Its very late for a post, though it tis the season for holiday parties, of which I just arrived home from one. Many have been ranting over the launch of UPN-HD for what can only be one show.....Enterprise. As it is the holiday season, Enterprise is now in re-run. A channel while obviously not even broadcast over any off-air analog network that should be discussed is the Sci-Fi network. Come January (the new) Battle Star Galactica will be airing. Now thats a series I would like to see in HD. Not to mention other series on the same network, Stargate, Stargate Atlantis etc that would be great in HD. The point is.... that eventually the "combiner" will be finished, but now isn't an urgent time to desire the extra local channels. Spend some time rallying support for other sources (networks).


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *Its very late for a post, though it tis the season for holiday parties, of which I just arrived home from one. Many have been ranting over the launch of UPN-HD for what can only be one show.....Enterprise. As it is the holiday season, Enterprise is now in re-run. A channel while obviously not even broadcast over any off-air analog network that should be discussed is the Sci-Fi network. Come January (the new) Battle Star Galactica will be airing. Now thats a series I would like to see in HD. Not to mention other series on the same network, Stargate, Stargate Atlantis etc that would be great in HD. The point is.... that eventually the "combiner" will be finished, but now isn't an urgent time to desire the extra local channels. Spend some time rallying support for other sources (networks).*



Battlestar Galactica will be airing on UniversalHD in, of course, HD. Presumably at the same time it airs on SciFi Channel, though a specific schedule hasn't been announced.


The miniseries will also be aired on NBC in a 3-hour edited format on January 8, presumably also in HD.


----------



## vinnyv07

I would like to see the sc fi network in HD but this part of the forum is about OTA. And in the biggest city in the US we struggle to get our local ch's. Its not about one more local ch and one more show in HD. Its about seeing any progress at all. Right now I cant get NBC, WB, WNET and there is no UPN. Thats alot of locals not to have. Right now those ch's mean more to me than a sci fi ch that might start operating down the road.


----------



## slocko

it will be pretty ironic if after the combiner goes online, some of us still can't get the channels we want










i for one am assuming that since i get fox, abc, and cbs, i should have no problems getting the others once the combiner is up.


----------



## SnellKrell

The key is how you currently receive WCBS-DT.


Although each station on the combiner will have its own distinct frequency and power, they will all be using Channel 56's antenna.


Gary


----------



## slocko

okay good. cbs has always been strong for me. it has been the first HD channel i ever received and has always been there for me.


thanks.


----------



## guy1nj

i live in north brunswick. i get CBS fron NY Over the Air. But i cannot get ABC/FOX? please help. i use Zenith Silver Sensor ...

With this Antenna, I can get stations from Philly if i turn in that direction.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *it will be pretty ironic if after the combiner goes online, some of us still can't get the channels we want
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i for one am assuming that since i get fox, abc, and cbs, i should have no problems getting the others once the combiner is up.*



I have been wondering about the same thing... especially since CBS-DT signal dropped about 50% for my location lately


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by berniec_
> *It would be pure speculation, but usually the station engineers dont work wkends unless they are doing signal test, etc. or something that required powering down or affects the OTA signal that they would need to be doing at off peak hours or in coordination with other groups up there (Master FM group, etc)
> 
> 
> i'd say get your hopes for something MAYBE before xmas but more then likely nothing major till after the holidays...*



Maybe we need to qualify which engineers don't work weekends. Maintenance and operating engineers work 24/7, ( maybe maintenace gets overnights off) it's the design engineers that get weekends off. lol.

In fact the design engineers at CBS can't pick up any tools since they are not union. While ABC and NBC engineers are NABET.


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> Battlestar Galactica will be airing on UniversalHD in, of course, HD. Presumably at the same time it airs on SciFi Channel, though a specific schedule hasn't been announced.



Really thats great!




> Quote:
> I would like to see the sc fi network in HD but this part of the forum is about OTA. And in the biggest city in the US we struggle to get our local ch's. Its not about one more local ch and one more show in HD. Its about seeing any progress at all. Right now I cant get NBC, WB, WNET and there is no UPN. Thats alot of locals not to have. Right now those ch's mean more to me than a sci fi ch that might start operating down the road.



I get them all side UPN. Though I hear what your saying.


----------



## tmtech

This reminds me of a story about networking the WTC for Ethernet ~ 20 years ago. I knew the DEC engineer who was responsible for a big chunk of work in that project. As most CE's did back then he had a mini screwdriver he kept in his shirt pocket for unscrewing rs-232 cables.


A union rep pulled him over along with mgt. and insisted he was in violation because he was carrying "tools" and the external contractors were not allowed to do that. Only the WTC staff engineers were allowed to have "tools"!!


Always thought that was a funny story!!





> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Maybe we need to qualify which engineers don't work weekends. Maintenance and operating engineers work 24/7, ( maybe maintenace gets overnights off) it's the design engineers that get weekends off. lol.
> 
> In fact the design engineers at CBS can't pick up any tools since they are not union. While ABC and NBC engineers are NABET.*


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Maybe we need to qualify which engineers don't work weekends. Maintenance and operating engineers work 24/7, ( maybe maintenace gets overnights off) it's the design engineers that get weekends off. lol.
> 
> In fact the design engineers at CBS can't pick up any tools since they are not union. While ABC and NBC engineers are NABET.*



Transmitter engineers often work midnights, because that is the only time when they can shut down, reduce power, or go to a backup system for maintenance. Generally, design engineers are not union members. NBC is unique in that theirs are. As George said, all maintenance and operations engineers are union members, and generally work shifts that cover 24/7/365-6. Also remember, there are fewer engineers of all types at the networks and stations, economic priorities being what they are. This, even as they are trying to build and operate HD and SD plants. Save a buck, no matter what the cost.


----------



## dturturro

So does anyone actually know what the staus of the combiner is? Is CBS truly running off of the combiner or were we just guessing? What happened to the schedule that was published earlier this week?


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Maybe we need to qualify which engineers don't work weekends. Maintenance and operating engineers work 24/7, ( maybe maintenace gets overnights off) it's the design engineers that get weekends off. lol.
> 
> In fact the design engineers at CBS can't pick up any tools since they are not union. While ABC and NBC engineers are NABET.*



i was overly generalizing for the sake of my being lazy.


oh god dont remind me about the union madness lolol


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *Transmitter engineers often work midnights, because that is the only time when they can shut down, reduce power, or go to a backup system for maintenance. Generally, design engineers are not union members. NBC is unique in that theirs are. As George said, all maintenance and operations engineers are union members, and generally work shifts that cover 24/7/365-6. Also remember, there are fewer engineers of all types at the networks and stations, economic priorities being what they are. This, even as they are trying to build and operate HD and SD plants. Save a buck, no matter what the cost.*



Can I ask in laymans terms what all this means. Are we going to get any more channels on the combiner before Christmas or not ?


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Can I ask in laymans terms what all this means. Are we going to get any more channels on the combiner before Christmas or not ?*



I think we should have learned by now to stop asking. All we have seen on this forum is rumors and disappointing info that ultimately leads us to get more frustrated. I can just imagine how many folks (me included) were rescanning their channels these past few days hoping for UPN to show up on 9-1. After yesterday's let down I have lost the faith that anyone on this forum really knows what is going on with the combiner project.


----------



## dswallow

If the combiner arrived under one of the engineer's christmas trees it'd have been installed and operating within 2 hours (ooh goodie, new gadget, let's play!). Instead, we have to endure all this planning and testing.


----------



## hphase

I'd say it's a safe bet that WCBS-DT is on the combiner. They've always been on the same antenna. Other stations will come on eventually, but the schedule is affected by many variables that are incomprehensible by many on this thread. Weather, shipping, and even ratings can factor into it. Not even counting the results of whatever testing they need to do will uncover. It will happen, but not on any one date, and certainly not soon enough for us on this thread. (Unless, of course, my WABC-DT receivability takes a nosedive on the combiner.)


----------



## BuzaidC

Why all the secrecy? Why doesn't someone just announce what is going on? There was a news story a week or so ago talking about testing etc that was linked earlier in this thread. Where is the news story talking about how it went, or if it went? If this project is worthy of news coverage (and we have seen in the past that it is), then why not more updates?


I doubt that much, if any, of what is going on with the combiner is incomprehensible to members of this thread. To me, it looks like there are some very smart people here. They are also customers of the broadcasters. And, probably very good ones at that since they have made the effort to to get broadcast digital TV by paying more money for a HDTV set, tuner, and to actually hook up an antenna on/in their roof/attic. The broadcasters/project managers should use this resource, not keep it in the dark.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I think we should have learned by now to stop asking. All we have seen on this forum is rumors and disappointing info that ultimately leads us to get more frustrated. I can just imagine how many folks (me included) were rescanning their channels these past few days hoping for UPN to show up on 9-1. After yesterday's let down I have lost the faith that anyone on this forum really knows what is going on with the combiner project.*



Yes..I second that. It really is something that there is no official word of what is going on. I was rescanning for UPN....but I stopped doing so because I just dont believe anything that is written or said anymore. Until I see the proof...the combiner doesnt exsist to me. I know its eventually going to happen...but we all have been let down so much in the past. Why should this be any different.


----------



## Scott G

Well, to me it is the broadcaster's losses if they keep delaying. I cannot get WPIX-DT and WWOR-DT and I almost never, ever watch either of the two channels for any programming at all. I get all the other channels in crystal clear digital and cannot watch these two in scratchy analog form.


I watch virtually nothing on these channels including news, etc. I was really looking forward to watching some of the programming on these channels starting with the Wizard of Oz on WPIX-DT tommorrow. To me no digital HD channel means no viewing of the stations to me. By no means a threat, just a factual situation for me. I just can't watch the ugly analog version.


----------



## jaypb

Rumor has it that the combiner WILL make a special appearance on the hit ABC (-DT) series "LOST". How it would up on the island is anyone's guess....so we've got LOTS of time to ante up with the guesses. Me thinks it was a power struggle between the execs over at ABC and the rest of the NYC OTA channels.....










The wire that Sayeed found leading out of the ocean into the jungle was the power to run the combiner......


Go figure!











{Now back to reality}


And I second the emotion regarding lost of viewership from an HD junkie for NON-HD channels. Since I started playing this dopey "OTA game" CBS has gained me as a viewer on an *almost* nightly basis every week (Raymond, CSI: Miami/NY, WIthout a Trace to name a few), ABC-DT has me for LOST and their weekly movies (i.e. Sunday/Saturday Night Movies) and my wife is ecstatic that NBC is on air (L&O, Las Vegas and all their other dramas). Now that Fox is HD I'm sure she'll tune in for 24 each week.


UPN....nada. WB...again, nada. Hell, we even watch NJN when something "pretty and scenic" is on. And I'm sure "we" aren't the only ones who pick and choose what to watch on TV as a result of HD programming. Before HD I NEVER watched network programming save for the shows I'd watched for years (Friends, Seinfeld....hell--even 90210...shudder).


Even my 4 and 7 year olds NOW know the difference between HD and non-HD....


----------



## SnellKrell

Concerning the lack of information being given to us in the New York metropolitan area, are you all ready for this one?


This morning's Los Angeles Times has published an article, with attribution to Stephen Williams of Newsday - and here it is. Promise not to blame me for inaccuracies and errors.


"HI-DEF ALERT. New Yorkers who depend on the over-the-air signals for their HDTV viewing are about to he handed a Christmas present. Perhaps belatedly: the long-awaited, long-delayed "combiner" transmitter atop the Empire State Building is supposed to begin transmitting in January.


The powerful combiner, which looks like a huge chunk of plumbing pipes, will replace the transmitters that were lost atop the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001. High-definition digital broadcasts originating from the Empire State Building will come from WCBS (which has been in place for several years), WNBC, WOR (sic), WPIX and WNET. Fox (WNYC)

(sic) broadcasts from a separate antenna on the building.


Bob Seidel, vice president of engineering for CBS, say he expects most of the stations will be transmitting from the combiner within a month. The range of the digital broadcasts will be from 55 to 60 miles, he said.


'You won't notice any change in channel 2, we've been at 100 percent power all along. But all the other stations will get out farther,' Seidel said.


Seidel says he expects WNET will be later in joing the combiner, since some of its transmission facilities aren't yet complete."


Again, no complaints to me for Williams' mistakes and your frustration.


Gary


----------



## trekkerj

Another month delay, what a shock.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *High-definition digital broadcasts originating from the Empire State Building will come from WCBS (which has been in place for several years), WNBC, WOR (sic), WPIX and WNET. Fox (WNYC)
> 
> (sic) broadcasts from a separate antenna on the building.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Why is there no mention of WABC?


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *Why is there no mention of WABC?*



You would have to notice that BIG item!!! If they are not on the combiner I might as well just drop D* right now and go to the dark side and get CableVision.


----------



## vinnyv07

I get WABC just fine the way it is...but I would think they would be on the combiner also. But why do we have to get a LA TIMES quote about a NYC area issue? Why doesnt someone over here report about it? I also never watch WPIX....WWOR...and WNET because of their lack of OTA sig in my area. I get WNBCDT via Directv but without DTV I wouldnt watch NBC either. Its simple...watch a tv show in HD glory or watch a tv show in Directv digital compression.....depression....I'll take the HD glory 9 times out of 10.


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dlan_
> *I have been wondering about the same thing... especially since CBS-DT signal dropped about 50% for my location lately*



I'm glad I'm not the only one who's experiencing this - thought I was imagining it (the 20% signal drop which has now caused my 2.1 to go into dropouts every 30 seconds.....)


I hope (but I doubt) that it will be addressed - I'll end up with a bigger antenna I guess....ugh.


----------



## hphase

I don't think the New York transmitter engineers are breathing a sigh of relief now that the LA Times gave them a reprieve.










Don't take everything you read in the press (and even here) as Gospel. I think we are all a bit too quick to hear what we want to hear and then scream when it doesn't turn out the way we want.


It's not that everyone is lying to you. Even those who know exactly what is going on can't predict the precise date and time. Those of you that are "in the business" know this, and sometimes that keeps those folks from posting.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *I'm glad I'm not the only one who's experiencing this - thought I was imagining it (the 20% signal drop which has now caused my 2.1 to go into dropouts every 30 seconds.....)
> 
> 
> I hope (but I doubt) that it will be addressed - I'll end up with a bigger antenna I guess....ugh.*



I have not mess with my antenna as yet since I get CBS-DT from DirecTV and my antenna was configured for the ABC signal... once ABC move or the other stations come online then I will try to re-point my antenna..


I hope that it's not a power issue and it's just a new signal footprint.


----------



## SnellKrell

I know that we're all frustrated - and that's putting it mildly!


We also have to be logical about things.

Let's not hang on the words of every well meaning person who heard something somewhere from a friend of a friend. Misinformation is rife -

that has been more than proven to us all.


Don't necessarily believe the words or the omissions of a newspaper reporter. Shouldn't we all question his abilities in researching the article when he leaves out WABC -which will be on the Combiner and will use Conde-Nast as a backup -

when he lists channel 9 as WOR - those are the old call letters - and he refers to the Fox station as WNYC. Channel 5 has been WABD, WNEW-TV and WNYW - but never WNYC. That's the orginal channel 31 when New York City owned it.


We all need a big salt shaker for all of the above.


The one and only way to get the truth is by calling the chief engineer at each television station. They are the ones who intimately know what's going on and the timetable.


Don't be shocked if you have trouble talking to someone. Too many in broadcasting today view digital and high definition as costly, troublesome things that have been legislated by Washington - and our numbers are too small to care about. Gone are the days when station management (and owners) believed and ran their business

"in the public's interest, conveniecne and necessity."


By the way, that's why they have their licenses.


Gary


----------



## Graphics

Hope this info helps, even thought its been discussed, here's an article in today's paper.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article taken from Long Island's NEWSDAY for SUNDAY December 19, 2004 ~ Page E32

HI-DEF AIR ALERT:

New Yorkers who depend on over-the-air signals for their HDTV viewing are about to be handed a Christmas present. Perhaps belatedly: the long-awaited, long delayed combiner transmitter atop the Empire State Building is supposed to begin transmitting by January. The powerful combiner, which looks like a huge chunk of plumbing pipes, will replace the transmitters that were atop the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001. High definition digital broadcast originating from the Empire State Building will come from WCBS (which has been in place for several years) WNBC, WOR,WPIX and WNET. Fox (WNYC) broadcasts from a separate antenna on the building. Bob Seidel, vice president of engineering for CBS, says he expects most of the stations will be transmitting from the combiner within the month. The range of the digital broadcasts will be from 55 to 60 miles, he said. You won't notice any change in channel 2, we've been at 100 percent power all along. But all the other stations will get out farther, Seidel said.

WNET will be later in joining the combiner, since some of its transmission facilities aren't yet complete.

E-mail Stephen Williams at [email protected] 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Graphics_
> *Hope this info helps, even thought its been discussed, here's an article in today's paper.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Article taken from Long Island's NEWSDAY for SUNDAY December 19, 2004 ~ Page E32
> 
> HI-DEF AIR ALERT:
> 
> New Yorkers who depend on over-the-air signals for their HDTV viewing are about to be handed a Christmas present. Perhaps belatedly: the long-awaited, long delayed combiner transmitter atop the Empire State Building is supposed to begin transmitting by January. The powerful combiner, which looks like a huge chunk of plumbing pipes, will replace the transmitters that were atop the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001. High definition digital broadcast originating from the Empire State Building will come from WCBS (which has been in place for several years) WNBC, WOR,WPIX and WNET. Fox (WNYC) broadcasts from a separate antenna on the building. Bob Seidel, vice president of engineering for CBS, says he expects most of the stations will be transmitting from the combiner within the month. The range of the digital broadcasts will be from 55 to 60 miles, he said. You won't notice any change in channel 2, we've been at 100 percent power all along. But all the other stations will get out farther, Seidel said.
> 
> WNET will be later in joining the combiner, since some of its transmission facilities aren't yet complete.
> 
> E-mail Stephen Williams at [email protected]
> 
> 
> This is the exact same article as the LA article that was reported a few posts earlier.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, it is the same article.


The LA Times owns Newsday.


Gary


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Yes, it is the same article.
> 
> *



But notice the different wording:


"Perhaps belatedly: the long-awaited, long-delayed "combiner" transmitter atop the Empire State Building is supposed to begin transmitting in January."


"Perhaps belatedly: the long-awaited, long delayed combiner transmitter atop the Empire State Building is supposed to begin transmitting by January."


----------



## abater

Hello all,


At 5:12 PM tonight (12/19/04) WPIX-DT started test transmissions on RF channel 33 from the Empire State Building. We are transmitting through the new master combiner system into the antenna heretofore used exclusively by WCBS-DT. (WCBS is also transmitting this way.) Here are a few things to know:


1. There is still considerable work to be done to complete all portions of the combiner system and its connection to the antenna. Consequently there will be a number of times over the next few weeks that WPIX will be unable to transmit on channel 33 due to logistics or safety considerations, and so for the time being we will continue transmissions on RF channel 12 too.

2. As a precaution, since not all portions of the combiner system are complete, we are temporarily limiting our channel 33 transmitter to ¼ power.

3. WPIX's digital transmissions on RF channels 12 and 33 will be identical. Digital television receivers are supposed to be able to handle this dual transmission and in fact this scenario is explicitly described in the Consumer Electronics Association CEA-CEB-12-A PSIP recommended practice. (This situation might occur in regions where stations use translators to serve remote portions of their market.) Consequently we don't expect this temporary dual transmission to be a problem, but would like to hear if you as the viewer find otherwise. Please post on this forum if you have any problems. (Please use the call letters WPIX in your post.)

4. Many combo satellite/OTA receivers receive information on available DTV RF channels from the satellite provider (VOOM, DISH, DirecTV). At such time as we are entirely comfortable that our transmissions on channel 33 are finalized we will notify these carriers to appropriately update their guide. Until that time you may have to manually add in channel 33.

5. Lastly, we are not fully aware of the status of the other stations that will use the combiner (WNBC, WABC, WWOR, and WNET), and so don't feel it is appropriate for us to comment on when they will originate broadcasts through the combiner. Needless to say there is considerable work going on here, so stay tuned!


Thanks much for your interest in WPIX and the WB!


Andy Bater

Tribune Broadcasting/WPIX


PS Re the post from yesterday: Do the "combiner people" work on weekends?


Yes, three of us from Tribune/WPIX worked both Saturday and Sunday. CBS's project manager was also kind enough to come in today (Sunday) for our first sign on.


----------



## tmtech

Andy,


Thanks for the update and all of the hard work that has gone into the project. I'm in NJ at zip 08844 and just did a test of UHF 33 on my HD-Tivo. Coming in at 80% consistantly!!


It'll be great to get WPIX in HD soon!!!


Best regards,

Tom




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by abater_
> *Hello all,
> 
> 
> At 5:12 PM tonight (12/19/04) WPIX-DT started test transmissions on RF channel 33 from the Empire State Building. We are transmitting through the new master combiner system into the antenna heretofore used exclusively by WCBS-DT. (WCBS is also transmitting this way.) Here are a few things to know:
> 
> 
> 1. There is still considerable work to be done to complete all portions of the combiner system and its connection to the antenna. Consequently there will be a number of times over the next few weeks that WPIX will be unable to transmit on channel 33 due to logistics or safety considerations, and so for the time being we will continue transmissions on RF channel 12 too.
> 
> 2. As a precaution, since not all portions of the combiner system are complete, we are temporarily limiting our channel 33 transmitter to ¼ power.
> 
> 3. WPIX's digital transmissions on RF channels 12 and 33 will be identical. Digital television receivers are supposed to be able to handle this dual transmission and in fact this scenario is explicitly described in the Consumer Electronics Association CEA-CEB-12-A PSIP recommended practice. (This situation might occur in regions where stations use translators to serve remote portions of their market.) Consequently we don't expect this temporary dual transmission to be a problem, but would like to hear if you as the viewer find otherwise. Please post on this forum if you have any problems. (Please use the call letters WPIX in your post.)
> 
> 4. Many combo satellite/OTA receivers receive information on available DTV RF channels from the satellite provider (VOOM, DISH, DirecTV). At such time as we are entirely comfortable that our transmissions on channel 33 are finalized we will notify these carriers to appropriately update their guide. Until that time you may have to manually add in channel 33.
> 
> 5. Lastly, we are not fully aware of the status of the other stations that will use the combiner (WNBC, WABC, WWOR, and WNET), and so don't feel it is appropriate for us to comment on when they will originate broadcasts through the combiner. Needless to say there is considerable work going on here, so stay tuned!
> 
> 
> Thanks much for your interest in WPIX and the WB!
> 
> 
> Andy Bater
> 
> Tribune Broadcasting/WPIX
> 
> 
> PS Re the post from yesterday: Do the "combiner people" work on weekends?
> 
> 
> Yes, three of us from Tribune/WPIX worked both Saturday and Sunday. CBS's project manager was also kind enough to come in today (Sunday) for our first sign on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## Phil Hightech

Great job guys. Nice strong signal in the Bronx. 32.db on the Fusion III card.


----------



## dturturro

THANK YOU!!!


----------



## trekkerj

Awesome, perfect reception in Morris Plains, NJ. Now I have two 11-1s, but I can tune in 33 UHF, about 50% on my signal bar without a preamp. I only wish I had this while Angel was still on the WB.


----------



## tmtech

AND just saw it is in time for the Wizard of Oz in HD tonight!!!


Big thumbs up!


----------



## SteveWinNJ

Is WPIX transmitting VHF only? I am at work and I wonder if my UHF Silver Sensor will be able to receive WPIX. Thanks in advance for any insight!


----------



## tmtech

It is UHF 33... If you get CBS now you'll get it at the same strength.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *Is WPIX transmitting VHF only? I am at work and I wonder if my UHF Silver Sensor will be able to receive WPIX. Thanks in advance for any insight!*


----------



## mw390

I am getting WPIX-DT at 50 percent (WCBS-DT is almost 100). Excellent job. Cant wait for Gilmores and Clark Kent


----------



## optonline2001

Andy,


Receiving WPIX-DT here Northern NJ both on Ch12 and Ch33 this evening. I have been one of the lucky one's to see you on Ch12 since I connect my LG LST-4200A STB to my 30 year old attic antenna with 300ohm twin lead this past fall. But never 100% of the time. Glad to see you are up. Good luck..


Steven


----------



## netman

EXCELLENT! Coming in good and strong!


Program Guide info to boot!


----------



## dswallow

Excellent news, Andy!


My Zenith HD-SAT520 picks it up great.


My HR10-250 sees it on a scan but won't add it because it's "already there", so the PSIP data identifying 11-1 must be getting used to decide it's already added, even if it's a different broadcast frequency.


On the signal meter, I'm getting a 95-96 on the channel, though. Better even than CBS. Can't wait for this to be the channel my HR10-250 tunes, 12 is usually OK but with moderate breakups that do get annoying.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Excellent news, Andy!
> 
> 
> My Zenith HD-SAT520 picks it up great.
> 
> 
> My HR10-250 sees it on a scan but won't add it because it's "already there", so the PSIP data identifying 11-1 must be getting used to decide it's already added, even if it's a different broadcast frequency.
> 
> 
> On the signal meter, I'm getting a 95-96 on the channel, though. Better even than CBS. Can't wait for this to be the channel my HR10-250 tunes, 12 is usually OK but with moderate breakups that do get annoying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I'm seeing the same thing. Signal 95 (Levittown, 11756), but can't tune due to channel 12. I posted on the HR10-250 thread as well.


----------



## shappyss

WPIX


I have an HD-Tivo and when I check the signal strength on 33 it says 95%. If i tune to 33-1 it shows looking for signal on antenna and will not show the channel. If I go to signal strength for channel 12 it says 65% but again if I type 12-1 it says searching for signal. If I go to 11-1 WB comes up but it pixilates a lot, probably because it is still tuning into channel 12. From channel 11-1 if I go to signal strength it automatically brings up channel 12, meaning that 11-1 is tuning to to channel 12 not 33. I tried a reboot and nothing changed....


any suggestions


thanks


----------



## mw390

I press 33 on my Samsung SIR-T150 and it automatically changes to 11-1. Maybe Samsung has sophisticated firmware which is why I had no problems.

I never was able to receive channel 12 also, so that might mean something too


----------



## RZ

WPIX is strong(92 out of 100). Here on the south shore of Staten Island. Keep 'Em Coming!!


----------



## jcthomas

Doug: Can you please expand on the following:


Quote: My HR10-250 sees it on a scan but won't add it because it's "already there", so the PSIP data identifying 11-1 must be getting used to decide it's already added, even if it's a different broadcast frequency. end quote


I am in GA and will be required to explain by long distance telephone to my daughter in the NY area how to change the set up her HD TiVo and other HDTV set top boxes. I did not understand what you said about the HV TiVo in your post above. And, my daughter and son-in-lw are not the least bit technical, so helping them with their various HD setup via telephone is a challenge.


By the by, thank you for the many contributions you have made to this and other forums.


Regards:


----------



## John Chu

Excellent....WPIX has never looked better!


I've basically given up on this channel this past fourteen months.....the temporary low power VHF frequency--gave me constant breakups and was virtually impossible to tune into...


But now...yowza...and just in time for the Wizard of Oz...


There's no place like home....there's no place like home...


Thank you!


----------



## SnellKrell

Andy -


Thank you.


I'm the one who asked if "combiner people" work on weekends - and obviously they do!


Punched in 33 into my Sony HD300 and locked in immediately. If this is 1/4 power, WOW!


Signal is varying from 67 - 82. 82 - the highest reading I've ever gotten using a Silver Sensor on my window sill - 22nd floor in the East 60s.


Thanks again.


Gary


P.S. Please feel free to bring friends from other channels!


----------



## vinnyv07

I take all my bad words back!!!! I am getting an 85 sig from Staten Island....which is good enough for a signal. And only 1/4 power.....that is very good news indeed. Bring on WWOR and WNBC!!! Great news!!!


----------



## shappyss

PEOPLE WITH HD-Tivo , go to channel 33-2 to watch WB


----------



## BuzaidC

I am about 20 to 25 miles north of NYC and only get as high as 12 on my signal meter which is not enough to get a picture. I have a Hughes E86. I get CBS at 100, ABC in the 70s, and NBC in the 50s. I guess I'll have to wait until it goes to full power.


But, I am very happy that you posted the information on this forum. It's great that you did that and very much appreciated.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

I did not have any problems with my HD-Tivo and the New WB.


I went to the area where you manage the channels that you receive.

I performed a rescan for off air channels.


Once it was complete it told me that it added the 11.1 and 11.2. I then tuned in and received it just fine.


To avoid the silly questions... I could not receive it on 12 before so I know it is the new one and not the old VHF 12.


Let me know if this helps.


Anthony


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *
> 
> To avoid the silly questions... I could not receive it on 12 before so I know it is the new one and not the old VHF 12.*



the problem it seems is if you have an HD-Tivo and you CAN get both signals at the same time.


----------



## RZ

On the hdr-250 TiVo, you can erase all off-air scanned channels and then do a new (rescan) of all off air channels. This will of course erase any duplications such as: 11-1(VHF WPIX, 12) versus 11-1(UHF WPIX, 33).


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by shappyss_
> *PEOPLE WITH HD-Tivo , go to channel 33-2 to watch WB*



This tunes the channel, but there's no guide data. Perhaps that will update over-night.


----------



## RZ

Seems to me that they are just "testing" at this point so that no program guide data will appear at this time.


----------



## dswallow

Strange; I did the scan for off-air channels, and watched it detect a signal on 33, but at the end said no new channels were found. 11-1 still tunes to VHF 12 (which I do get), and nothing new was listed in the guide.


Tuning to 33-1 gets nothing; however 33-2 does tune to it (as does 33-3).


----------



## slocko

Same here. It added 11-1 and 11-2. Also added two NJ channels which I swore said 1 and 2. I can't find them anymore so no idea what they were.


When I went to add 11-1 to my favorites it said wpix-ditial and wpix-spanish for 11-2. What is that about?


Smallville here I come. When do you think Direct will program guide data for the channel????


----------



## trend1

Thank you combiner and WB!


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RZ_
> *Seems to me that they are just "testing" at this point so that no program guide data will appear at this time.*



There IS program guide information. I see it on two MyHDs and already set a recording event with it.


----------



## Gary Quiring

I did the scan on my D* HR10 and found the channels. They are coming in perfectly. But Wizard of Oz is in SD format. I thought it was going to be HD?


----------



## SnellKrell

"Thw Wizard of Oz" was released in 1939 - it is not a widescreen production.


The print that the WB is using is the latest digitally restored picture - the soundtrack is a "manufactured" 5.1 Dolby Digital. 11.1 (33) is transmitting 5.1 Dolby, while 11.2 (33) although the program information shows "Spanish," it's in English and comes through as ProLogic.


Gary


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *AND just saw it is in time for the Wizard of Oz in HD tonight!!!
> 
> 
> Big thumbs up!*



Great job by WPIX-DT.


How come the Wizard of Oz is not in HD. It is on the small screen, but very,very clear.


----------



## trekkerj

It IS HD, that's what it looks like when a film from 1939, and originally in 1.33:1, is converted to HD. Not impressed?


----------



## tincan

WPIX-DT 33 on Combiner Thanks so much!


I am not yet getting the signal (perhaps 1/4 power is not enough for my current setup), but I am thrilled to hear that progress is being made.

Thanks very much combiner people!


----------



## DTVDAD

Thanks WPIX! Getting 123-125% signal on my 921 in Huntington, NY.


----------



## berniec

i get it in Bergen County at 80% on the MyHD card that i have here, using an outdoor antenna thats in the closet of my apartment, only about 10 feet over groud level...i'm impreseed...cant wait for the Yule Log


Props to the Engineering Staff @ WPIX!


----------



## Maynard

tincan - i am in newtown - getting a very low signal on my fusion card - hopefully when they go to full power we will get them.


I get cbs and fox right now - so i am hoping at full power i will get all the others as well...


----------



## sranger3

Getting PIX in Dix Hills 11746 35 miles out at a signal strength of 82 on a DTC 100.


ABC is 82

Fox at 70

NBC at 25 no picture

CBS 70


Snowing pretty good here as well.


Full guide info too. Way to go PIX.


----------



## JohnnyPC

Seeing 11-1 and 11-2. Getting a good signal in Sussex county (on the border of Morris).


Thanks to those who are working to get this up and running!


----------



## newhdcrt

Missed the Wizard. Receiving WPIX on a dish 921 at 120.


I also picked up some pbs stations r8-06


No NBC


----------



## Chriš2

Not getting WPIX in Norwalk, CT, but thank you for the hard work and the update.


However I am getting WNBC better than usual, I can actually hold it for a while without breakups. Must be the weather.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chri_
> *Not getting WPIX in Norwalk, CT, but thank you for the hard work and the update.
> 
> 
> However I am getting WNBC better than usual, I can actually hold it for a while without breakups. Must be the weather.*



You might check again Monday or whenever people report it's being received again; I don't know what time it went off the air but I noticed not too long ago that the receiver I'd left on the channel no longer had signal.


----------



## dm145

I missed out because I kept on trying to get WWOR-DT 38-1.

They were supposed to be on before WPIX-DT 33-1.

Any word on WWOR-DT?


----------



## bjohn

OK. I was wrong. There is actually a combiner!


Getting 85 signal in Floral Park.


Kudos to WPIX staff.



No program info for me because I have a crappy DISH 811 receiver. I guess I'll never get program info because DISH just don't know how to use the PSIP data that comes thru OTA.


----------



## spankle

Can anyone explain to me why I can only recieve CBS and now WPIX after about 9pm in the evening? My reception gets better later in the evening almost every night. I'm talking a good 5% to 8% stronger signals without any directional changes on the antenna. Before 9 or 10pm I can't lock the signal. ABC and FOX are steady. Why is this?


Perplexed in Plainsboro NJ.


Any ideas?


----------



## RMSko

I'm not getting any signal on 33 and 56 (CBS) is going in and out. I assume they must be doing some testing since I'm usually in the high 80's with CBS. Is anyone else experiencing any problems today?


Also, up until now, my best reception was with ABC, which has always been at around 90, with CBS being a close second. Am I right that when ABC makes the move it may make sense for me to move my antenna a bit?


----------



## jgrahamiii

Getting PIX as advertised, with a guide, but the guide is about 6 hours off (at 10pm, it showed 16:00). I'm curious if this is perhaps an early problem with the combiner, soon to be fixed, or is it a problem with my TV (which is new). No other station has a guide for me to compare with.


----------



## netman

The guide shows a chunk of the schedule not just the current show. You should be able to "step" through it.


----------



## plasmafan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> *Can anyone explain to me why I can only recieve CBS and now WPIX after about 9pm in the evening? My reception gets better later in the evening almost every night. I'm talking a good 5% to 8% stronger signals without any directional changes on the antenna. Before 9 or 10pm I can't lock the signal. ABC and FOX are steady. Why is this?
> 
> 
> Perplexed in Plainsboro NJ.
> 
> 
> Any ideas?*



If you are not using a preamp it sounds like you could use one. The preamp would raise your reception levels above your drop-out point.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *The guide shows a chunk of the schedule not just the current show. You should be able to "step" through it.*



I re-read my post, and I should have been clearer. It shows the current show and later, it's just that at 10:0pm (22:00), it stated that the current time was 16:00. The show that was on, the news, was properly listed in the guide as being on at that moment. It's just that the moment listed was 6 hours earlier. Easy enough to figure out, just wrong.


----------



## spankle

plasmafan thanks.


I'm not using a pre-amp and maybe I'll try one but I still don't understand why my reception improves at night over 5 points across the board. Only at night ! .... anyone????


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *..It's just that the moment listed was 6 hours earlier...*



hmmm I wonder if the guide info in the program stream is referenced to UTC time. If that is the case the receiver would need to know the time-zone offset (+5) OR the local time to display correctly. I don't have my stand alone receiver hooked up, just a couple MyHDs. Is it possible the box needs to be told the time or UTC offset?


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *Is WPIX transmitting VHF only? I am at work and I wonder if my UHF Silver Sensor will be able to receive WPIX. Thanks in advance for any insight!*



I guess you did not read abater's post? Item 3.


3. WPIX's digital transmissions on RF channels 12 and 33 will be identical. Digital television receivers are supposed to be able to handle this dual transmission and in fact this scenario is explicitly described in the Consumer Electronics Association CEA-CEB-12-A PSIP recommended practice. (This situation might occur in regions where stations use translators to serve remote portions of their market.) Consequently we don't expect this temporary dual transmission to be a problem, but would like to hear if you as the viewer find otherwise. Please post on this forum if you have any problems. (Please use the call letters WPIX in your post.)


----------



## tmtech

I'm wondering if they've reduced power this morning for WPIX as they continue their testing. Last night I had a good strong signal. This morning nada.


Anyone in Central Jersey seeing a signal today?



Tom


----------



## newhdcrt

No WPIX signal this afternoon. I'm 20 miles from the ESB.

Receiving CBS ABC and FOX all at or over 100 strength on a Dish 921


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *I'm wondering if they've reduced power this morning for WPIX as they continue their testing. Last night I had a good strong signal. This morning nada.
> 
> 
> Anyone in Central Jersey seeing a signal today?
> 
> 
> 
> Tom*



See post from AVS member abater, never mind I will re post it:


WPIX-DT Channel 33 Transmissions

Hello all,


At 5:12 PM tonight (12/19/04) WPIX-DT started test transmissions on RF channel 33 from the Empire State Building. We are transmitting through the new master combiner system into the antenna heretofore used exclusively by WCBS-DT. (WCBS is also transmitting this way.) Here are a few things to know:


1. There is still considerable work to be done to complete all portions of the combiner system and its connection to the antenna. Consequently there will be a number of times over the next few weeks that WPIX will be unable to transmit on channel 33 due to logistics or safety considerations, and so for the time being we will continue transmissions on RF channel 12 too.

2. As a precaution, since not all portions of the combiner system are complete, we are temporarily limiting our channel 33 transmitter to ¼ power.

3. WPIX's digital transmissions on RF channels 12 and 33 will be identical. Digital television receivers are supposed to be able to handle this dual transmission and in fact this scenario is explicitly described in the Consumer Electronics Association CEA-CEB-12-A PSIP recommended practice. (This situation might occur in regions where stations use translators to serve remote portions of their market.) Consequently we don't expect this temporary dual transmission to be a problem, but would like to hear if you as the viewer find otherwise. Please post on this forum if you have any problems. (Please use the call letters WPIX in your post.)

4. Many combo satellite/OTA receivers receive information on available DTV RF channels from the satellite provider (VOOM, DISH, DirecTV). At such time as we are entirely comfortable that our transmissions on channel 33 are finalized we will notify these carriers to appropriately update their guide. Until that time you may have to manually add in channel 33.

5. Lastly, we are not fully aware of the status of the other stations that will use the combiner (WNBC, WABC, WWOR, and WNET), and so don't feel it is appropriate for us to comment on when they will originate broadcasts through the combiner. Needless to say there is considerable work going on here, so stay tuned!


Thanks much for your interest in WPIX and the WB!


Andy Bater

Tribune Broadcasting/WPIX


----------



## tmtech

dm145,


That was why I was asking... Last night it was as strong as my CBS signal, which was odd since it was only supposed to be at 25%.


What I was asking was what others were seeing in different parts of NJ...


Basically I'm just assuming 1/1/05 is when I'll "really" get WPIX, which is a good thing in my mind! The rest of the signal watch is just idle curiosity.


Tom



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *See post from AVS member abater, never mind I will re post it:
> 
> *


----------



## dlan

Came in pretty solid last night in Hackensack NJ and I live on the bottom of a hill with severe multipath issues.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *dm145,
> 
> 
> That was why I was asking... Last night it was as strong as my CBS signal, which was odd since it was only supposed to be at 25%.
> 
> 
> What I was asking was what others were seeing in different parts of NJ...
> 
> 
> Basically I'm just assuming 1/1/05 is when I'll "really" get WPIX, which is a good thing in my mind! The rest of the signal watch is just idle curiosity.
> 
> 
> Tom*



"Signal Strength" is just a familiar notion on some of these receivers. Sometimes (not often) it really is signal strength, other times it is signal-to-noise, and still other times it is the inverse of the error rate. Above a certain threshold, a stronger signal doesn't mean a better picture. Close in, reception is limited by the number of reflections. Farther out, it is more influenced by signal power, but it is NO WHERE NEAR that simple. You might have equal "signal strength" numbers because the error rate from WCBS is roughly what the error rate is from WPIX.


FYI, my numbers in NW NJ are about the same from WCBS and WPIX, but they are both lower than WABC (on a lower tower with less power.)


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by spankle_
> *plasmafan thanks.
> 
> 
> I'm not using a pre-amp and maybe I'll try one but I still don't understand why my reception improves at night over 5 points across the board. Only at night ! .... anyone????*



its a common thing that certain radio signals travel further at night. Also when there is cloud cover reception can improve. When there are clouds the signal bounces off the bottom of the clouds and around the curve of the earth so the signal travels further. I cant remember the exact reason why it happens at night too but i think its because of magnetic particles or somethign that also cause the signal to be reflected around the curve of the earth. (tropospheric effects I think it is called- my spelling stinks- had 'english for engineers'- sorry)


I'm sure someone here can explain it better but what you are seeing is perfectly normal.


Same thing happens in your car- travel at night or early in the morning you can pick up your favorite station from much farther away.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *"Signal Strength" is just a familiar notion on some of these receivers. Sometimes (not often) it really is signal strength, other times it is signal-to-noise, and still other times it is the inverse of the error rate. ....*



anyone know what the HD-Tivo measures? I'm trying to figure out what the numbers represent to better aim my antenna.


----------



## trend1




> Quote:
> Anyone in Central Jersey seeing a signal today?




I'm getting it just fine here in West Keansburg.


Tony


----------



## trend1




> Quote:
> Thanks much for your interest in WPIX and the WB!
> 
> 
> Andy Bater
> 
> Tribune Broadcasting/WPIX




Andy, Thanks for giving me WPIX! I'll watch and support your advertisers.


Tony


----------



## joemins

I can't seem to get a good signal for 5.1 & 5.2. All other NYC OTA come in great. I'm less than 25 miles from ESB, across the bay in NJ. I have a RS VU-120XR mounted to the roof w/CM 7777 attached. No luck rotating rotating the antenna. Anything else I could try oher than moving the mount location?

I would hate to miss watching the SUPERBOWL in HD!


----------



## Scott G

WPIX-DT is coming in strong here. I am looking forward to watching the Honeymooners Marathon in crisp, clear digital (even though it is SD).

By the way, has anyone noticed that WPIX-DT really crops their SD picture a lot ? Some of the writing at the bottom of the picture gets cut off on mine.


----------



## trekkerj

They've always done this. I believe it is refered to as a 14:9 zoom, or something similar. They zoom in just enough to fill most of the screen but not chop off too much. It's not too bad.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *They've always done this. I believe it is refered to as a 14:9 zoom, or something similar. They zoom in just enough to fill most of the screen but not chop off too much. It's not too bad.*



Not really complaining. The PQ is much better than analog WPIX. Just an observation.


----------



## Chriš2

Picking up WPIX OK here in CT now! (outdoor UHF yagi with channelmaster preamp/amp)

For what it's worth, without the amplifier I cannot get a steady signal.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *Am I right that when ABC makes the move it may make sense for me to move my antenna a bit?*



ABC rite now is coming off the condenest building (4 Times Square), and will be moving to ESB with everbody else soon -- so figure thats roughly about 10 city blocks south, so yes in theory moving your antenna slighly more to the south if you are aligned to 4TS for ABC would probably help you pick up the new ABC site at Empire and the other stations there better.


----------



## Maynard

Chris - what part of ct are you in? I am in the newtown area and only get ~ 30% signal on my fusion card. Hoping it is due to the 1/4 power


----------



## cpto

WPIX-DT is coming in great in East Hanover NJ tonight. Nice solid picture when I've checked. The signal strength is about the same as CBS on my Zenith.


Rick


----------



## HDntheCity

WELCOME WPIX-DT!!!!


this is late 'cus i was working late last nite & then early today-1st chance to check out the new addition. signal coming in at 100 here on the W. side (Port Authority- .75 mi from the ESB). EVERWOOD looks good-at least as good an HD pic. as on Fox. needed a rescan on my Samsung 160 to get ch. 33(which mapped as 11-1 which means for now the program guide lists TWO 11-1's). sound is good. SD picture also tho some are definitely cropped-especially noticably on a Macy's ad. odd that some SD is stretched/cropped while other material is pillar-boxed.

now bring on WWOR-DT & ENTERPRISE in HD!!! Christmas is lookin' good this year!



jim


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maynard_
> *Chris - what part of ct are you in? I am in the newtown area and only get ~ 30% signal on my fusion card. Hoping it is due to the 1/4 power*



I'm in Norwalk near the coastline, so I'm a bit closer. Once they go full power I'm guessing you'll be OK.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *They've always done this. I believe it is refered to as a 14:9 zoom, or something similar. They zoom in just enough to fill most of the screen but not chop off too much. It's not too bad.*



NBC-DT did this for a few weeks then stopped. Maybe WPIX-DT will do the same. It looks OK at first until you notice the distortion. Bring on WWOR-DT and WNET-DT. Then I will only need to visit this forum for trouble shooting purposes and can get on with my live.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDntheCity_
> *(which mapped as 11-1 which means for now the program guide lists TWO 11-1's).*



I also have two 11-1's. Do both of yours get a signal? Assuming no, which one is the correctly mapped singal and how can you tell?


----------



## PDPnNJ

Interesting, while watching the news on WPIX-DT - I tuned to 11.2 and it was airing the same news but dubbed in Spanish










I can't believe I'm getting WPIX-DT for the first time after getting my HDTV










Bring on the METS in HD !


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *I also have two 11-1's. Do both of yours get a signal? Assuming no, which one is the correctly mapped singal and how can you tell?*



I have 2 11.1s as well. One is labeled WPIX-DT while the other one is labeled WPIXDT. The latter is mapped to channel 12 which I can't get with my UHF antenna.


----------



## newhdcrt

Receiving WPIX again tonight. It seems they were not broadcasting during the day today.


----------



## scottte

I am located right between New Haven and Bridgeport here in Milford, CT. I have 2 problems with getting WPIX and wonder how things will work out with me. Currently, WFSB out of Hartford, CBS affiliate, is on digital 33, and ironically, my local WB is on digital 12!!!! Will I stand any chance of getting WPIX when it goes full power??? When I go to 11-1 I get about a 10% signal. I realize it will depend on how I have my antenna aimed, but how does this work out with all of the mapping issues and stuff???


scottte


----------



## dan57

Got a nice, strong steady signal on WPIX-DT last night, then no signal again this morning. No worries - I figure they are tweaking some stuff.


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *Got a nice, strong steady signal on WPIX-DT last night, then no signal again this morning. No worries - I figure they are tweaking some stuff.*



Same here in Chester - and a bit of good news! Even though CBS swears they've been running "at 100% power", for the past 2 weeks i've had a horrible signal - so bad that it goes in and out every 30 seconds... HR10-250 shows signal fluctuates between 60-70 - when it hits 60 it drops out...


Well, last night, CBS is pegging 95 on my signal meter (like it used to....) and no more drop outs...


Looks like a little patience goes a long way... But now that I have all the OTA locals, I can drop the local feeds on D* - so much for their increased revenue stream







I just can't figure out why I'd want to keep them when I get the same feeds OTA...even though FOX is up and ABC is coming soon...


----------



## Steve L

I'm about 20 miles NE of the ESB and currently receive channel 56 (2.1) at a signal strength of 92. I checked 33 (11.1) several times yesterday up to 8PM and most recently this morning (Tues) at 9am EST and I get no signal at all. How directional is WPIX's signal? I've got a Winegard 8 bay with pre-amp pointing at 229°.


----------



## spankle

michaelk - THANKS for the explanation of why signal strength is better at night. It ends a mystery and now I can investigate this phenomenon more.


----------



## SnellKrell

As has been posted here by a representative from WPIX, for the next few weeks its signal from the Empire State Building first, will not be at full power, he lmentioned 25%; and also that the signal will be sporadic.

WPIX and others stations are working on the combiner.


Both yesterday and today, during the daytime, the signal is either absent or at very low levels. It should come back tonight.


Gary


----------



## John Mason

Tuned in WPIX-DT (UHF 33) briefly last night but could only get Spanish audio. Only ~9 blocks from the E.S.B. and I pointed a Silver Sensor at a nearby building (~110 degrees North of E.S.B.) and tuned reflections with a magazine-size chunk of aluminum foil resting on the back of the antenna. CBS (56 UHF) comes in now with more stability than in the past. All other non-ESB stations (plus Fox/UPN) have always been too weak (or may just be passing overhead). Use TWC/RCN cable mostly, which both lack WPIX-DT HD signals. -- John


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *Same here in Chester - and a bit of good news! Even though CBS swears they've been running "at 100% power", for the past 2 weeks i've had a horrible signal - so bad that it goes in and out every 30 seconds... HR10-250 shows signal fluctuates between 60-70 - when it hits 60 it drops out...
> 
> 
> Well, last night, CBS is pegging 95 on my signal meter (like it used to....) and no more drop outs...
> 
> 
> Looks like a little patience goes a long way... But now that I have all the OTA locals, I can drop the local feeds on D* - so much for their increased revenue stream
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just can't figure out why I'd want to keep them when I get the same feeds OTA...even though FOX is up and ABC is coming soon...*



I have not been able to lock in CBS-DT since the moved to the combiner until last night... This keeps getting better.


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if ANYONE out there is picking up WPIX-DT using a Hughes E86 Directv/OTA STB. I have three of them....and I'm in Central NJ and I just happened to check last night before even realizing that WPIX-DT was "live" and I received NO SIGNAL at all on Digital 33. And, all of my NYC locals peg out at close to 100 (CBS/NBC/ABC/FOX/all the spanish stations/PAX).


Just curious....I didn't try a "re-scan"....but I don't normally have to do that to tune in a "new" digital channel. I just tune in the digital assignment (i.e. 33-1) and it tunes it in.


TIA


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Just curious if ANYONE out there is picking up WPIX-DT using a Hughes E86 Directv/OTA STB. I have three of them....and I'm in Central NJ and I just happened to check last night before even realizing that WPIX-DT was "live" and I received NO SIGNAL at all on Digital 33. And, all of my NYC locals peg out at close to 100 (CBS/NBC/ABC/FOX/all the spanish stations/PAX).
> 
> 
> Just curious....I didn't try a "re-scan"....but I don't normally have to do that to tune in a "new" digital channel. I just tune in the digital assignment (i.e. 33-1) and it tunes it in.
> 
> 
> TIA*



I tried adding new channel, and it didn't work!







Normally that works on my SAT520.

After I rescanned the digital channels, it showed up, but not at the same location as the D* guide. It was a separate 11-2 and 11-2, with no programming info. Strange!!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Calabs_
> *I tried adding new channel, and it didn't work!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normally that works on my SAT520.
> 
> After I rescanned the digital channels, it showed up, but not at the same location as the D* guide. It was a separate 11-2 and 11-2, with no programming info. Strange!!*



Hey, who let you out of the Central NJ thread











I was going to post this over in the CNJ thread as well, since I didn't see ANY activity there and didn't know if anyone was still following the NYC thread as well.


I'll have to see if I can walk the wife through it today or wait till tonight and try the re-scan/33-2 method.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Just curious....I didn't try a "re-scan"....but I don't normally have to do that to tune in a "new" digital channel. I just tune in the digital assignment (i.e. 33-1) and it tunes it in.
> *



On my Samsung I had to rescan. I tried tuning to 33-1 and 33-2 manually and didn't get a signal. When I re-scanned, 11-1 & 11-2 showed up.


----------



## Infominister

I've been trying to re-scan and 11-1 keeps coming up as Channel 12, which, of course, I've never been able to get up here. My receiver is the LG LSS 3200a, DirecTV box.


----------



## SnellKrell

I have a Sony HD-300 - made by LG and basically the same unit as your LSS 3200.


What I did to get the new WPIX transmission was:


Go to "Setup" menu

Choose "Manual Ch. Add"

Enter 33

Push Enter

The system will then scan - and should then program the inclusion of

Channel 33 - WPIX-DT (11.1 and 11.2)


The specific wording on your system may be exactly the same or close.


I wish you well.


Gary


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *I also have two 11-1's. Do both of yours get a signal? Assuming no, which one is the correctly mapped singal and how can you tell?*



i only get one signal which i assume is UHF ch. 33 as i NEVER got ch. 12. on my guide only the old(ch. 12) channel has program details-the other listings says only "regular programming". the othe difference is on my Sammy STB the old ch has the WB logo in the channel banner-new channel has a little box that says WPIX-DT 11-1. its hard to describe without showing you but i hope this helps. also your STB may be different.

just got up to check my reception & it looks like WPIX is not transmitting on ch 33 right now. hope its back by prime-time. we were told this is only the testing period but it sure passed the test last nite!!


jim


----------



## harican

WWOR-DT (UPN) is on the air on channel 38 which remap to 9-1 and 9-2


9-1 WWOR-DT is transmitting a 1920x1080i signal, we are high definition ready.


9-2 is transmitting WNYW-DT in standard def.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *Tuned in WPIX-DT (UHF 33) briefly last night but could only get Spanish audio. Only ~9 blocks from the E.S.B. and I pointed a Silver Sensor at a nearby building (~110 degrees North of E.S.B.) and tuned reflections with a magazine-size chunk of aluminum foil resting on the back of the antenna. CBS (56 UHF) comes in now with more stability than in the past. All other non-ESB stations (plus Fox/UPN) have always been too weak (or may just be passing overhead). Use TWC/RCN cable mostly, which both lack WPIX-DT HD signals. -- John*



keep trying John. i'm just off W. 40th near 9th & also using Silver Sensor. 11-1(ch 33) came in maxed out last nite. if you got 11-2(Spanish sub ch.) you should get 33. a rescan worked for me. i looks like ch 33 is down during the day-hope its back on tonite. this should all get easier when ch 12 is shut down for good which i hope is soon.


jim


----------



## HDntheCity

1?i]Originally posted by harican [/i]
*WWOR-DT (UPN) is on the air on channel 38 which remap to 9-1 and 9-2


9-1 WWOR-DT is transmitting a 1920x1080i signal, we are high definition ready.


9-2 is transmitting WNYW-DT in standard def.* [/quote]


YEAH!!!! time for a(nother) rescan!!!!


BTW thanks to the max harican!!!



jim


----------



## vinnyv07

I just did a scan UPN -DT isnt coming up for me yet. Anyone else?


----------



## SnellKrell

Try now!


Gary


----------



## SnellKrell

Well now at 6:02 it's off!


Obviously, the engineers are testing and tuning.


I guess we all have to patient - but at least it's there, sometimes.


Gary


----------



## th003g

im using a silver sensor with distribution amplifier wired in right at the antenna and a walmart USdigital hdtv receiver and am getting 9-1 and 9-2 in Nesconset LI.... 9-1 guide says "this is a PSIP test!"

i cannot get 33....


----------



## vinnyv07

Everytime I scan ...it goes off....then I come back to the forum here and its on. So going by that ....it should be on now. But this is all very good news.


----------



## trekkerj

I get a strong signal, but a blank screen.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I get a strong signal, but a blank screen.*



Same here on my HR10-250. But my Zenith HR230 is getting it just fine.


----------



## trekkerj

My Samsung is going nuts, whatever they are sending out is locking up the box. I can't change channels or even turn it off at times. Not good. I guess I'll try later, but I may have to unplug my box for a while and start over. What a pain.


----------



## vinnyv07

My VOOM HD receiver is not picking up a sig for the ch when I do a full scan. But when I input the ch 38 ..Im getting a 91 sig. But I still cant tune to the ch. I'll wait until later.


----------



## SnellKrell

In the "isn't this crazy department," my just recently, proudly programmed 9.1 and 9.2 just disappeared and all of a sudden channel 38.3 with no picture and no signal has now been automatically programmed into my list of digital channels.


I'm lost!


Gary


----------



## Maynard

Hmmm. Getting it nice and stable for King of Queens. Had to manually put it into my Fusion HDTV Software on my MCE PC.


Of course, the MCE viewer is having problems with it. MCE seems to be more picky than the Fusion software...


Oh well... Hopefully it will get better when they get the kinks out of it...


Im in Newtown, CT btw - ~62 miles north of ESB...


-Maynard


----------



## nyjklein




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *My VOOM HD receiver is not picking up a sig for the ch when I do a full scan. But when I input the ch 38 ..Im getting a 91 sig. But I still cant tune to the ch. I'll wait until later.*



Same here, VOOM receiver shows 98 for signal on channel 38. It stops on channel 38 while scanning, but won't add the channels.


----------



## trekkerj

Anyone else have a Samsung receiver? Every time i tune to 38 or 9-1 the entire box locks up until I remove the antenna. Not good. Can't imagine what they are doing over there that is causing it. Anyone from WWOR reading this? I assume they are still testing, so I'm not complaining just yet, just reporting what happens. Kinda wanted to check out Veronica Mars in HD tonight.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by nyjklein_
> *Same here, VOOM receiver shows 98 for signal on channel 38. It stops on channel 38 while scanning, but won't add the channels.*



Yeah, me too. I have a VOOM receiver and the channel will not map even though I show a good signal strength on it. We need to notify VOOM to map channel 9-1 for us. Does anyone know how we do this ?


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by th003g_
> *im using a silver sensor with distribution amplifier wired in right at the antenna and a walmart USdigital hdtv receiver and am getting 9-1 and 9-2 in Nesconset LI.... 9-1 guide says "this is a PSIP test!"
> 
> i cannot get 33....*



i seem to be lucky. getting 9-1 here off 9th Ave midtown(W.40th st.). the sig. is fluctuating tho & the meter is all over the place-100 then 93 then 0 then 54 etc. P. guide says "6pm testing" but its simulcasting the analog ch programming. audio is DD 2.0. BTW i'm also using Silver Sensor & amp. anyone have the hardware to check the trans-

mitted power?

the good news is ch 33 is back up & strong as a train!! meter is maxed, pq good, audio is DD 5.1. same P. guide issues(no info.) but i can get it from the analog listing.

if the announced timetable is accurate all should be ironed out in a week or so. hopefully WWOR will be at full power & ch 12 will be off. now we need WNET-DT to get with the programming!!! we got a video Xmas feast!! a bit OT Fox is on D*(ch 88) & i finally got my copy of Return of the King EE!!! stayin' home the rest of this week!!LOL!!


jim


----------



## patrickpiteo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *My VOOM HD receiver is not picking up a sig for the ch when I do a full scan. But when I input the ch 38 ..Im getting a 91 sig. But I still cant tune to the ch. I'll wait until later.*



Weird i know. same here.. BUT I scan with my Sammy 360 D* and bang its there and looks pretty good.


----------



## patrickpiteo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Yeah, me too. I have a VOOM receiver and the channel will not map even though I show a good signal strength on it. We need to notify VOOM to map channel 9-1 for us. Does anyone know how we do this ?*



I think Sean is the guy for that one..


----------



## patrickpiteo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Anyone else have a Samsung receiver? Every time i tune to 38 or 9-1 the entire box locks up until I remove the antenna. Not good. Can't imagine what they are doing over there that is causing it. Anyone from WWOR reading this? I assume they are still testing, so I'm not complaining just yet, just reporting what happens. Kinda wanted to check out Veronica Mars in HD tonight.*



Sanned with my sammy 360 and it shows up in the PG and looks good..


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by patrickpiteo_
> *I think Sean is the guy for that one..*



Could you send Sean a message to have VOOM map the channel for us. I don't know how to reach him.


Thanks


----------



## trekkerj

I'm getting it now too. GUess they resolved whatever the issue was.


----------



## Keith

Ch. 38 is booming in here in Kings Park


My Unity Motion ( IT 815ST STB by INTEGRA TELECOM )

has no problems with it


----------



## trekkerj

Can't believe it, getting every NY local in HD for the first time ever. A monumental day.


----------



## dturturro

I just spoke to a level 2 tech at D* and he thinks the HR10-250 is not scanning the new channel because they were not given any guide data for the channel yet. This wasn't a problem with WPIX since they were already providing info for channel 12. Who do we call/E-mail to get UPN to provide guide data? UPN/TiVo/D*?


----------



## tmtech

I just did the scan on my hr10-250 and it picked it up just fine... Have yo uverified that you get signal on 38?


Of course there is no guide data but 9-1 and 9-2 tune in just fine...



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I just spoke to a level 2 tech at D* and he thinks the HR10-250 is not scanning the new channel because they were not given any guide data for the channel yet. This wasn't a problem with WPIX since they were already providing info for channel 12. Who do we call/E-mail to get UPN to provide guide data? UPN/TiVo/D*?*


----------



## trend1

Thank You Combiner People! I'm recieving every NY station CBS-DT, NBC-DT, FOX-DT, ABC-DT, UPN-DT, WPIX-DT the only missing station is PBS 13-DT! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!


----------



## mw390

Getting 9-1 and 9-2 out here in Levittown. Samsung SIR-T150 + Silver Sensor.

Signal is stronger (about 20%) than WPIX-DT


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trend1_
> *Thank You Combiner People! I'm recieving every NY station CBS-DT, NBC-DT, FOX-DT, ABC-DT, UPN-DT, WPIX-DT the only missing station is PBS 13-DT! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!*



I'm getting everything except NBC-DT and PBS-DT out in Selden. UPN (38) stronger than PIX (33). UPN and FOX both have sub-channels. FOX44 is still showing 480i UPN on the .2 subchannel, and UPN38 is showing 480i FOX on their .2 subchannel.


I am guessing that NBC and ABC are still not on the combiner.


----------



## icemannyr

I guess I need a better antenna,

In Northern NJ, with my PC HD Tuner card the only station I can get video on is Ch44 WABC-DT.


I just ordered a Sub Sliver antenna, I am guessing that might help.


----------



## jaypb

33-1/38-1 both coming in at 100 solid on my D* Hughes E86 receivers.


Interestingly, I can't tune in 11-1 after a re-scan. 11-1 "gives" me the WPIX guide info....but if I tune to it my receiver seems to want to tune to "digital" 12.....but if I tune to 33-1 it "re=maps" to 11-1...and everything is fine.


But it's doable....and 11-2 had Raymond in Spanish.


That was interesting....


----------



## hphase

I had WPIX on Sunday, about as strong as WCBS. No WPIX last night. Still no WPIX tonight, but WWOR comes in fine, about as strong as WCBS. WABC still kicks a$$ signal "strength" wise, much better than the combiner stations. Could be multipath, but I'm bummed that WPIX went away.


----------



## dlan

Nice and strong here in Hackensack NJ. 9.1 is UPN HD (up-converted right now) and 9.2 is Fox 5 SD.


----------



## General Custer

After many scans, I can't get UPN-DT to rescan to 9-1and 9-2 on my HDTIVO. It is only possible to see this channel at 38-3 and 38-4. Any ideas on how to do this. I have already reset the unit, cleared the OTA channels and rescanned a half dozen times. The same is also happening with WPIX only being seen at 33-2.


----------



## trekkerj

Veronica Mars and UPN in HD!!!!!!


Too bad Enterprise won't be on until Jan 7th.


----------



## General Custer

Any Suggestions?


----------



## tincan

Hooray, more progress!


Unfortunately, on my Samsung SIR T-165, through channel 38, channel 9-2 is fine, but 9-1 sometimes works, but a lot of the time it throws my reciever into an endless loop of rebooting.

It says "hello" (the message it says when you are turning on the unit) and says "digital sound" at the bottom right before it blanks and says "hello" again. Once in a while it works, though.

This comment applies to testing around 9PM on Dec 21.


Anyway, thrilled to see stuff happening, this is all very exciting.


----------



## kcn823

General Custer, I'm having the same problem as you. Can't get my HDTivo to rescan UPN or WPIX.


----------



## shappyss

same here, UPN and WPIX wont remap t 9-1 and 11-1


----------



## tmtech

Have you tried deleting your local network areas and then doing the rescan?



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by General Custer_
> *Any Suggestions?*


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *Have you tried deleting your local network areas and then doing the rescan?*



I did a clear and rescan, no luck yet.


----------



## General Custer

Been There Done That. Still no success.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *I just did the scan on my hr10-250 and it picked it up just fine... Have yo uverified that you get signal on 38?
> 
> 
> Of course there is no guide data but 9-1 and 9-2 tune in just fine...*



Can you see 9-1 in your guide if you change to All Channels?


----------



## General Custer

9-1 does not show up in my all channels guide either.


----------



## tmtech

I do see 9-1, 9-2, 11-1, and 11-2 in my guide but just with "Regular Schedule" as the programming.


I'm assuming it'll take some time before the guide data is accurate and included in the channels.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Can you see 9-1 in your guide if you change to All Channels?*


----------



## icemannyr

Anyone noticing a flickering black line accross the top of WABC-DT it's on NYPD blue and the ad's also.


I'm watching with a PC tuner card so I see the full frame, I'm not sure if an HDTV might crop it out.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *Anyone noticing a flickering black line accross the top of WABC-DT it's on NYPD blue and the ad's also.
> 
> 
> I'm watching with a PC tuner card so I see the full frame, I'm not sure if an HDTV might crop it out.*



Yes, that has been on WABC-DT all night tonight.


----------



## icemannyr

At least the feed was clean Sunday. Last few weeks it's been bad then also.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *I do see 9-1, 9-2, 11-1, and 11-2 in my guide but just with "Regular Schedule" as the programming.
> 
> 
> I'm assuming it'll take some time before the guide data is accurate and included in the channels.*



That's strange. I'm not seeing 9-1 in my guide at all. I can get 38-3 & 4 by direct entry. If I hit info, I see Regular Schedule, but nothing when I hit guide. Maybe I'll let it sit over night and check again tomorrow. After this long what's 1 more night?


----------



## tmtech

Don't know if it can possibly matter but my TiVo did perform a normal call sometime this afternoon (ie I didn't force it it was scheduled to do it).


Could that update the channel mapping?


I also didn't need to do anything other than one scan for channels and 9-1 and 9-2 showed up. 11-1 and 11-2 showed up Sunday night right after they turned on the signal...



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *That's strange. I'm not seeing 9-1 in my guide at all. I can get 38-3 & 4 by direct entry. If I hit info, I see Regular Schedule, but nothing when I hit guide. Maybe I'll let it sit over night and check again tomorrow. After this long what's 1 more night?*


----------



## patrickpiteo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Could you send Sean a message to have VOOM map the channel for us. I don't know how to reach him.
> 
> 
> Thanks*



Sean said that he has sent VOOM the info..


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by patrickpiteo_
> *Sean said that he has sent VOOM the info..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Great hopefully they will map it for us soon so we can get 9-1, too.


----------



## rChaz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tincan_
> *...Unfortunately, on my Samsung SIR T-165, through channel 38, channel 9-2 is fine, but 9-1 sometimes works, but a lot of the time it throws my reciever into an endless loop of rebooting.
> 
> It says "hello" (the message it says when you are turning on the unit) and says "digital sound" at the bottom right before it blanks and says "hello" again. Once in a while it works, though...*



Same results for my Sammy T-165, firmware v125 - must be bad PSIP info...


I see similar on post# 3662 (trekkerj)


----------



## trekkerj

My Samsung started picking up 9-1 and 9-2 10 minutes after I posted that. They must have fixed something. It was completely locking up my box when it saw the signal. I have a T151 standalone box, however.


----------



## PDPnNJ

During a channel scan, my TS360 halts on channel 38 for few seconds but it continues without adding the channel. I wish the TS360 had a way of adding OTA channels manually. Manual tuning 38.1 does not work with this receiver since it thinks it's a satellite channel if not mapped during an OTA scan


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *During a channel scan, my TS360 halts on channel 38 for few seconds but it continues without adding the channel. I wish the TS360 had a way of adding OTA channels manually. Manual tuning 38.1 does not work with this receiver since it thinks it's a satellite channel if not mapped during an OTA scan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



That is exactly what is happening with the VOOM box during a scan. Something must be strange with their PSIP that screws up certain boxes.


----------



## dturturro

For the HR10-250 problems with WOR & PIX:


I changed my local network (from NY to NY), cleared my locals and did a rescan. Before initiating the rescan I pulled the antenna lead off and waited for it to get to channel 13. I reattached the cable and it found 9-1, 9-2, 11-1(33) & 11-2(33). Guide data is coming in as Regular schedule. If nothing changes by tomorrow I'm gonna try forcing a call to see if that works.


----------



## tmtech

Is anyone with an hr10-250 seeing guide data for either WPIX or WOR from the combiner?


----------



## MLM

Now we have every New York station except WNET-DT. Is there any information about when they will go on the combiner?


Do we know whether WLIW-DT will also go on the combiner?


----------



## jrschmidt

Hi all,


I've seen several people getting reception in Huntington NY. I have a friend who lives there and just bought an HDTV. Is there any chance that she can receive HD using an indoor antennae?


Thanks,


John


----------



## slocko

no guide data for me either. it has been saying regular schedule since yesterday.


strange thing is that i still have the old 11-1 mapped and that has correct guide data










going to force a call.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *Is anyone with an hr10-250 seeing guide data for either WPIX or WOR from the combiner?*



I don't... but I won't worry about it for now... I am sure we will get guide data from DirecTV soon.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Now we have every New York station except WNET-DT. Is there any information about when they will go on the combiner?
> 
> 
> Do we know whether WLIW-DT will also go on the combiner?*



WNET_DT - Sometime next year

WLIW-DT - Never mentioned to be, also from what I've read they no longer do HD?


----------



## tmtech

I thought OTA guide data was pulled from the datastream just like the sat channel guide is.


The PSIP standard does include electronic program guide so I would think they'd use it rather than providing it via dialup like a SA Tivo.


Anyone know the real scoop on this?




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dlan_
> *I don't... but I won't worry about it for now... I am sure we will get guide data from DirecTV soon.*


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *no guide data for me either. it has been saying regular schedule since yesterday.
> 
> 
> strange thing is that i still have the old 11-1 mapped and that has correct guide data
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> going to force a call.*



I have my local network set to a NY zip code and I get partial guide info for both. I see the program in the proper time slot but get No information available. I guess it is better than nothing.


----------



## slocko

I had to move my antenna a little closer to the window to pick up 38. Hopefully 38 will get stronger???


Anyone have any idea how to remove the old 11-1 mapping that never came in for me. I don't even know how it got there to begin with. It's the HD-Tivo.


I tried removing OTA channels from the menu, but that didn't seem to remove any of the channels, expect those I scanned recently.


Thxs.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *I thought OTA guide data was pulled from the datastream just like the sat channel guide is.
> 
> 
> The PSIP standard does include electronic program guide so I would think they'd use it rather than providing it via dialup like a SA Tivo.
> 
> 
> Anyone know the real scoop on this?*



The HR10-250 uses the Tivo guide data and not the local PSIP. The HR10-250 need consistent data to managed the season pass and prevent duplicate recordings.


----------



## newhdcrt

WOR is showing a 120 strength on the 921. Also reciving guide information on all OTA channels. Now just waiting on NBC


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Do we know whether WLIW-DT will also go on the combiner?*



No. Their transmitter is 30 miles east of the ESB. And since they still seem to be sticking to their plan of carrying no HD programming I, for one, could hardly care. WNET will be on the air and carrying PBS-HD programming and WLIW will be carrying 3 or more programs that almost no-one will want to watch. Good luck to them.


----------



## Steve L

Getting 95 out of 100 signal strength on UHF 38 (9.1), but my DirecTivo HR10-250 tells me it's "searching for signal" when I tune to 9.1. Any thoughts? Thx.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *Getting 95 out of 100 signal strength on UHF 38 (9.1), but my DirecTivo HR10-250 tells me it's "searching for signal" when I tune to 9.1. Any thoughts? Thx.*



Tune to 38-3 and 38-4.


----------



## cpufixer1

WWOR

Getting 65% on my 921 and it can not lock it.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *Getting 95 out of 100 signal strength on UHF 38 (9.1), but my DirecTivo HR10-250 tells me it's "searching for signal" when I tune to 9.1. Any thoughts? Thx.*



Have you done a new scan? When you do, it should pick up the new channels.


Also, for those wanting to delete the "other 11-1" on the HD TiVo, just de-select that channel in "channels I receive".


Does anyone know when the combiner is suppose to be at full signal strength?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Now we have every New York station except WNET-DT. Is there any information about when they will go on the combiner?
> 
> 
> Do we know whether WLIW-DT will also go on the combiner?*



No, WLIW-DT is not going on the combiner, though I imagine that now that WNET owns it, once the conversion is over they will move WLIW-DT to the Freedom Tower (though they'd have to move back to channel 21 to do it). Then they could do the HD on one of the frequencies and the SD multicast on the other.


And congrats on the combiner. Here I was thinking I might have UPN in HD before New York, but it just didn't turn out that way.










- Trip


----------



## plasmafan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jrschmidt_
> *Hi all,
> 
> 
> I've seen several people getting reception in Huntington NY. I have a friend who lives there and just bought an HDTV. Is there any chance that she can receive HD using an indoor antennae?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> John*




Not a chance. I live in Huntington and first thing I did was try an indoor antenna. My panasonic TU-DST52 was so dead (no stations) I thought it was broken. Then I tried my ham radio UHF beam pointed west. I then got WCBS-DT and WLIW-DT.


Next step...I bought a Channel Master 4-bowtie antenna (22.50) and put it on the garage away from the trees. I also added my GRE 20db preamp. Now I get all digital stations from the city, 2 stations from NJ and WLIW-DT.


Only way to fly is an outdoor antenna in the clear with a preamp. BTW I live one block north of Jericho Tpke behind Sportique Motors (Jaquar).


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Tune to 38-3 and 38-4.*



Will try that as soon as I get home. What's odd is that when I checked OTA signal strength on the Hr10-250, the info for UHF 38 says it was mapped to 9-1.


Still not seeing any signal on UHF 33, even though I get 92-95 on UHF 56 and UHF 38. Maybe they're just not transmitting when I'm checking.


----------



## slocko

ahh okay. so my old 11-1 and my locals must all come from the Tivo data, and not from scanning. That's why I can't get rid of them when I say remove ota channels.


that must be also why it says regular schedule on the new channels. no data for them yet.


the universe is once again in harmony











> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dlan_
> *The HR10-250 uses the Tivo guide data and not the local PSIP. The HR10-250 need consistent data to managed the season pass and prevent duplicate recordings.*


----------



## dlan

Yes.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

I am getting zero on 33 today. I was getting a good reading on Sunday but nothing now..... anyone else have this problem


----------



## hphase

I wonder who will appear on the combiner tonight?


----------



## SnellKrell

Anthony -


WPIX-DT, on 11.1 and 11.2, has not been transmitting during the day - the stations should be back possibly around 5 p.m. or so - but definitely in prime time.


Gary


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *I am getting zero on 33 today. I was getting a good reading on Sunday but nothing now..... anyone else have this problem*



i think it was the same yesterday then ch 33 was back after 6 pm. they must be testing & tweaking during business hrs. remember this is still the testing phase-be patient guys. no HD during the day anyway.


jim


----------



## dlan

it's on again tonight.


----------



## dlan

it's on again tonight.


----------



## dlan

it's on again tonight.


----------



## trekkerj

is it on again?


----------



## DynoMutt

Is it my imagination, or is WABC-DT coming in much stronger at the fringes? I'm in Brewster, NY and am getting about the same signal level as WCBS-DT. Is WABC-TV now on the combiner at full power?


----------



## DynoMutt

I'm still not seeing a signal from Ch. 33... 38 (Interesting that they should be allocated the same OTA ch. as their sister UPN in Boston for DT) is coming in rather well.


----------



## patrickpiteo

The VOOM STB now maps the new wwwor channel 9-1 channels. Just do a scan and they will come in the PG.


----------



## trekkerj

Is anyone watching Smallville? I've seen it in HD before on ch 12 with breakups, but I thought I'd see how it looks now. Doesn't look like it's in HD tonight, at least to me. The position of the WB logo looks like it's framed for 4:3. I'm not sure what I'm seeing.


Kevin Hill looks great on UPN, for comparison.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Is anyone watching Smallville? I've seen it in HD before on ch 12 with breakups, but I thought I'd see how it looks now. Doesn't look like it's in HD tonight, at least to me. The position of the WB logo looks like it's framed for 4:3. I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
> 
> 
> Kevin Hill looks great on UPN, for comparison.*



I have _Smallville_ in full glorious HD.


Here's the thing though; I have always gotten WPIX in HD with the strongest signal of all the stations (always above 80% on a DISH 811), so anything combiner-related probably would not apply in my situation. I'm hoping that when WPIX moves to the combiner, the signal remains as good as it's been (for me anyway)......


----------



## trekkerj

They are on the combiner at 1/4 power, channel 33.


----------



## charlieg




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DynoMutt_
> *Is it my imagination, or is WABC-DT coming in much stronger at the fringes? I'm in Brewster, NY and am getting about the same signal level as WCBS-DT. Is WABC-TV now on the combiner at full power?*



I'm seeing the same thing 60 miles out from the transmitter on LI. Receiving ABC-DT from the city was always a rare event but it has been much more reliable recently. Fortunately, I can also get it from CT and at a much higher signal level. Having more choices is always a good thing though.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *Is anyone watching Smallville? I've seen it in HD before on ch 12 with breakups, but I thought I'd see how it looks now. Doesn't look like it's in HD tonight, at least to me. The position of the WB logo looks like it's framed for 4:3. I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
> 
> 
> Kevin Hill looks great on UPN, for comparison.*



Smallville was in HD but the logo placement was unusual.


----------



## trekkerj

I remember it looking better than that in the past. I've never been too impressed with the WB's HD, it's way too soft compared to the other networks. I don't really watch any of the stuff they have on anyway.


I did find myself watching a couple of UPN shows in HD that I've never watched before. Being in HD really is a huge factor in what I will watch these days.


----------



## Scott G

I must admit UPN (9-1) is one of the best quality HD channnels I have seen. I saw some Kevin Hill tonight and it was great PQ. Just watching the news in 4:3 on the HD channel looks extra sharp, too. I am pleasantly surprised how good the UPN HD channel is.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *I must admit UPN (9-1) is one of the best quality HD channnels I have seen. I saw some Kevin Hill tonight and it was great PQ. Just watching the news in 4:3 on the HD channel looks extra sharp, too. I am pleasantly surprised how good the UPN HD channel is.*



I totally agree.


----------



## trekkerj

I agree, I really can't wait for Enterprise to come back next month.


I wish WPIX would stop that zoom for regular material though. Nobody else does that. I wonder when they will boost their power. Still, I can remember back when Angel was on, every Wednesday I would hook up a pair of rabbit ear antenna to a preamp and stick it out my window, and adjust it for about a half hour prior to 9pm to try to get a signal with minimal breakups. Ch 33 would have been so nice back then...


----------



## GRN

Can anyone verify which channels are currently on the combiner and which channels are expected to be on there soon? I ask only because I have not been getting WABC-DT for quite some time (ironically enough, ever since the supposed "upgrade" it's been my absolute _worst_ channel to lock onto), then it magically appeared Monday night at 77%. I also have _never_ gotten WNBC-DT, ever, and it came in strong last Monday also with no breakup. I don't know whether to attribute that to weather/atmospheric conditions, combiner testing, etc. Can anyone fill me in? Thanks in advance.


----------



## cpto

I'd prefer that all HD stations broadcast 3:4 material the same way WCBS does, with gray borders...


It will be interesting to see what happens when all the stations are on the converter. WCBS has always been the channel most susceptible to atmospherics, with WABC second, and FOX the best. It will be odd if the minor networks have a better radiation pattern and strength than CBS.


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *I have not been getting WABC-DT for quite some time (ironically enough, ever since the supposed "upgrade" it's been my absolute worst channel to lock onto), then it magically appeared Monday night at 77%. I also have never gotten WNBC-DT, ever, and it came in strong last Monday also with no breakup. I don't know whether to attribute that to weather/atmospheric conditions, combiner testing, etc. Can anyone fill me in? Thanks in advance.*



Glad I'm not the only one who was wondering that. NBC has always been a problem for me too, but I watched it Tuesday night and it wasn't breaking up. I figured maybe atmospherics and because all of the leaves are down, but who knows?


----------



## harican

The HD image quality of Kevin Hill on WWOR-DT (UPN HD) is superb, I must say this is some of the best HD I have seen to date, a notch better than CSI on CBS and equal to SBS HD from Korea.

http://www.sbs.co.kr


----------



## WAYNEG




> Quote:
> Can anyone verify which channels are currently on the combiner and which channels are expected to be on there soon? I ask only because I have not been getting WABC-DT for quite some time (ironically enough, ever since the supposed "upgrade" it's been my absolute worst channel to lock onto), then it magically appeared Monday night at 77%. I also have never gotten WNBC-DT, ever, and it came in strong last Monday also with no breakup. I don't know whether to attribute that to weather/atmospheric conditions, combiner testing, etc. Can anyone fill me in? Thanks in advance.



I am seeing the exact same thing here in Little Falls NJ- ABC-DT has been unwatchable since their upgrade except on rare occasions. This last Monday, it was a good solid signal, then Tuesday, no- signal on my SAT-520 and 4228 antenna. CBS and Fox have always been good and NBC seems to be better, but spotty at times. I'm hoping that Monday was a combiner test and not just atmospherics! Last night it was there, but breaking up, 11-1 was good with no guide data and 9-1 would not tune or show any signal.


Wayne


----------



## RMSko

I'm in Westfield NJ and am getting a 90% signal for CBS, but have not been able to get anything for channels 9 or 11. Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## dan57

Rich,


I just checked this morning at about 8:15 in East Brunswick. No signal at all for 11-1. Good strong signal for 9-1.


Dear Santa Clause: Please bring me digital 13 OTA. I will be happy HD camper!


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *I'm in Westfield NJ and am getting a 90% signal for CBS, but have not been able to get anything for channels 9 or 11. Anyone have any thoughts?*



What do you see in the way of signal strength on 33 or 38? What receiver are you using?


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by WAYNEG_
> *I am seeing the exact same thing here in Little Falls NJ- ABC-DT has been unwatchable since their upgrade except on rare occasions. This last Monday, it was a good solid signal, then Tuesday, no- signal on my SAT-520 and 4228 antenna. CBS and Fox have always been good and NBC seems to be better, but spotty at times. I'm hoping that Monday was a combiner test and not just atmospherics! Last night it was there, but breaking up, 11-1 was good with no guide data and 9-1 would not tune or show any signal.
> 
> 
> Wayne*



Wayne, I'm in Little Falls too...on First Ave...near center of town.

I get ABC-DT (7.1, 7.2) strong and steady on my DirecTV SIR-TS360 receiver and a standard roof antenna. I am on a bit of a hill where I am. I also have my antenna as high as the mast would allow.


My antenna is on a rotor. If find that it needs to be pointed between the Conde Nast Building and the Empire State Building to receive all. If I aim Directly at the ESB ABC weakens.


For the record, I see...


CBS (2.1) STRONG

NBC (4.1, 4.2) No signal

Fox (5.1, 5.2) STRONG

ABC (7.1, 7.2) STRONG

UPN (9.1,9.2) Intermittent MEDIUM

WB (11.1, 11.2) Intermittent WEAK-MEDIUM

WNET No Signal

PAX (31.1) STRONG

Spanish (41.1) MEDIUM

PBS (50.-50.5) STRONG

Spanish(68.1) STRONG


FWIW. Last year I got NBC everytime it snowed and was freezing out.


Last year I didn't get FOX unit I actally raised my antenna 6-8"...go figure. Thats why my moto is now higher and bigger is better.


On a side not, I have NBC-DT on DirecTV but really want it OTA. All HDTV looks subtle better OTA...NBC looked much better OTA.


On the bright side Wayne, eventually you will be getting ABC and NBC as strong as CBS pretty soon it seems.


I look forward to everyone in our area getting all stations in distant regions.


Harry

Admin at http://www.hdtvforum.com 

Check out our daily HDTV news


----------



## Scott G

WCBS-DT, WWOR-DT and WPIX-DT are all on the combiner now. WPIX-DT seems to only broadcast on channel 33 (combiner) during the evening. The other two all day.


I have been told WNBC-DT hopes to be on the combiner sometime next week. Most likely early next week. WABC-DT should follow shortly thereafter. WNET-DT will take some time, because their transmitter is not ready.


WNYW-DT will stay on its own antenna.


I hope this update helps.


----------



## slocko

Is WWOR going to increase in strength? I have to move my antenna closer to the window to get it, but if I do, I lose WPIX.


I might end up havig to mount my antenna high on the wall. Just didn't want an ugly coax cable running down the wall to the HD-Tivo.


----------



## jgrahamiii

Since I got my HDTV set last month, I've always gotten CBS fine. As of earlier this week, I started getting PIX and WOR, as expected when they went on the combiner. But I have not been able to get CBS for the last two nights. Anyone else having this issue? It seems strange, since I had no problems before, and am getting two other stations off the same antenna.


----------



## Infominister

Why haven't I been able to scan for Channel 33 with my LG LSS 3200a? Everytime I try, doing it either through manual "Add a Channel" by full "Easy Scan" of all local digital channels or by going through the entire DirecTV set-up process, it still gives me Channel 12 as the signal on Channel 11-1.


I was able to scan in Channel 38, but the signal strength is minimal.


If anyone has any tips, please help.


----------



## RMSko




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *What do you see in the way of signal strength on 33 or 38? What receiver are you using?*



Last night I was getting less than 30% signal strength. I'm at work now, so I don't know if it improved. My CBS numbers were better than they have ever been so it would appear that CBS is at full signal strength (at least for now). Does anyone know when the other stations expect to be at full strength?


Also, there was a post above that indicated that when he moved his antenna he could get channel 9, but would lose channel 11. How could this happen if they are both on the same combiner, i.e., it would appear that if you move the antenna and get a better signal for one station, you should get a better signal for all the other stations that are on the combiner. Am I missing something?


----------



## plasmafan




> _Originally posted by cpto_
> 
> *I'd prefer that all HD stations broadcast 3:4 material the same way WCBS does, with gray borders...
> 
> 
> 
> Here,here! This has been bothering me because I use a Plasma monitor and I cant be the only one. WHY DONT the other stations take the hint from WCBS-DT and run gray bars when showing 4:3 content in a HD frame. When my DST52 or Panny monitor senses a 16:9 frame I can do nothing about it. Is this asking too much?*


----------



## SnellKrell

Although multiple stations, by way of being connected to the combiner, use the same transmitting antenna (in our case WCBS-DT), each individual station transmits at a different frequency and power.


Different frequencies when combined with multipath can cause very wide fluctuations in the ability to revieve signals. Logically you would think that since they're all coming from the same place that all you have to do is aim and that's all that's needed and reception station to station should be the same.


If you have dead-on line of sight to the Empire State Building with no signal bouncing around due to buidings, trees, etc., there then would be greater equality - the only difference then being power.


Hope that helps.


Gary


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *I'd prefer that all HD stations broadcast 3:4 material the same way WCBS does, with gray borders...*



Note for all TV programmers: If the program you are sending me is 4:3, DON'T zoom it to 14:9 or some other odd-ball ratio. Most receivers and TVs will let you format 4:3 and 16:9 programs to fit your display, either 4:3 (computer and TV) or 16:9 (new, widescreen TV.) They can't recover what was cropped due to the stations's zoom.


Just tell the truth and give me all of the picture. I can deal with it if I have to. And don't stretch, either.


----------



## Morg111

Is 9-1 on all the time right now. Because I have gotten 11-1 on and off for some time and now it is solid, I have never been able to get 9-1. Also, neither 33 or 38 come in. I live in hoboken (If I had a good arm I could hit the ESB) and I have the Hughes HD Directivo. Do I need to rescan?


Marc


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *Is 9-1 on all the time right now.*



WWOR-DT seems to be on all the time including now.


----------



## vruiz




> _Originally posted by plasmafan_
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally posted by cpto
> I'd prefer that all HD stations broadcast 3:4 material the same way WCBS does, with gray borders...
> 
> 
> 
> Here,here! This has been bothering me because I use a Plasma monitor and I cant be the only one. WHY DONT the other stations take the hint from WCBS-DT and run gray bars when showing 4:3 content in a HD frame. When my DST52 or Panny monitor senses a 16:9 frame I can do nothing about it. Is this asking too much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. Please don't give them any ideas. I'd rather have the black bars than that obnoxious light gray WCBS uses. I don't even watch non-HD programming on WCBS because of that. Sidebars are supposed to be black. Just calibrate your display and you don't have to worry about burn-in. It's a red herring.
> 
> 
> Before you ask, I do have a plasma along with a front projector and a CRT RPTV and I still hate gray bars.*


----------



## Phil Hightech

Hello All, Everytime it rains the signal from CBS bounces all over the place. When it's dry I get 100, when it rains it drops below 40 and I lose the picture. All other signals remain unchanged. I figure I have some strange mutipath problem that only surfaces when everything is wet. However, I have heard other people on this thread complain about the CBS signal. So before I go and remount/ replace and/or relocate my antenna, I'm just wondering if anyone has a similar problem when it rains. Thanks,

Phil


----------



## seaford

_Is 9-1 on all the time right now. Because I have gotten 11-1 on and off for some time and now it is solid, I have never been able to get 9-1. Also, neither 33 or 38 come in. I live in hoboken (If I had a good arm I could hit the ESB) and I have the Hughes HD Directivo. Do I need to rescan?_


I have a Samsung and had to rescan to get 9-1 & 2.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phil Hightech_
> *Hello All, Everytime it rains the signal from CBS bounces all over the place. When it's dry I get 100, when it rains it drops below 40 and I lose the picture. All other signals remain unchanged. I figure I have some strange mutipath problem that only surfaces when everything is wet. However, I have heard other people on this thread complain about the CBS signal. So before I go and remount/ replace and/or relocate my antenna, I'm just wondering if anyone has a similar problem when it rains. Thanks,
> 
> Phil*



You might possibly have some bad connections, too. Water might be getting somewhere it shouldn't.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vruiz_
> *I'd rather have the black bars than that obnoxious light gray WCBS uses. I don't even watch non-HD programming on WCBS because of that. Sidebars are supposed to be black. Just calibrate your display and you don't have to worry about burn-in. It's a red herring.
> 
> 
> Before you ask, I do have a plasma along with a front projector and a CRT RPTV and I still hate gray bars.*




AMEN! I am with you 100%. Properly calibrated displays should not fear black bars.


----------



## shappyss

can u clarify what you mean by "Properly calibrated displays should not fear black bars", I fear black bars on my projection tv and want to know how to prevent them. By calibrate do you mean bring the brightness down to 0?


----------



## trend1




> Quote:
> Yes, it is. Please don't give them any ideas. I'd rather have the black bars than that obnoxious light gray WCBS uses. I don't even watch non-HD programming on WCBS because of that. Sidebars are supposed to be black. Just calibrate your display and you don't have to worry about burn-in. It's a red herring.



I'm with you I HATE THE GRAY BARS! I to do not watch non-HD on CBS because of the gray bars...Why does CBS do this?


tony


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by shappyss_
> *can u clarify what you mean by "Properly calibrated displays should not fear black bars", I fear black bars on my projection tv and want to know how to prevent them. By calibrate do you mean bring the brightness down to 0?*



Proper calibration can be achieved using one of a number of calibration DVDs. An ISF technician can also do this for those who would rather pay to have it done:

http://www.imagingscience.com/ 


Most sets come out of the store in "torch mode" almost assuring burn-in over a short time. Proper calibration can markedly improve image quality while preventing burn in from static images.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *Note for all TV programmers: If the program you are sending me is 4:3, DON'T zoom it to 14:9 or some other odd-ball ratio. Most receivers and TVs will let you format 4:3 and 16:9 programs to fit your display, either 4:3 (computer and TV) or 16:9 (new, widescreen TV.) They can't recover what was cropped due to the stations's zoom.
> 
> 
> Just tell the truth and give me all of the picture. I can deal with it if I have to. And don't stretch, either.*



I disagree. I prefer WPIX's 14:9 format. It's better than linear stretch and you don't lose as much info like you do with a straight zoom. Plus, I hate seeing those huge black (or CBS' awful Grey) bars on the side. I'll take WB's 14:9 PQ against everyone else's up-converted 480i any day.


----------



## Morg111

I get and have gotten every channel there is perfectly including WPIX-DT (11-1) now. I cannot for the life of me get WWOR-DT (9-1). I have rescanned (twice) and still it does not recognize or show it. Any issues I should be aware of? Does anyone have the HR10-250?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *I get and have gotten every channel there is perfectly including WPIX-DT (11-1) now. I cannot for the life of me get WWOR-DT (9-1). I have rescanned (twice) and still it does not recognize or show it. Any issues I should be aware of? Does anyone have the HR10-250?*



Reselect your local area, clear scanned off-air channels then rescan. That did the trick for me.


----------



## UroDoc




> _Originally posted by netman_
> 
> *Proper calibration can be achieved using one of a number of calibration DVDs. An ISF technician can also do this for those who would rather pay to have it done:
> 
> 
> On my Mitsubishi 65907 with Promise Module, I have individual calibration for each type of input. Therefore using a calibration DVD can not be used to calibrate the HDTV input. I understand that there is a calibration D-VHS tape but it is only compatable with the JVC units (d-theater) not with my Mitsubishi HD-2000 tape unit.*


----------



## vruiz

That's okay. As long as you keep your contrast under 50% you should be fine. It's the contrast in torch mode what causes burn-in, not the brightness.


----------



## dturturro

Has anyone else lost WPIX-33?


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *...,clear scanned off-air channels... That did the trick for me.*



How do you do that? I can't get rid of Channel 12 for WPIX-DT.


----------



## Paperboy2003




> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally posted by netman
> Proper calibration can be achieved using one of a number of calibration DVDs. An ISF technician can also do this for those who would rather pay to have it done:
> 
> 
> On my Mitsubishi 65907 with Promise Module, I have individual calibration for each type of input. Therefore using a calibration DVD can not be used to calibrate the HDTV input. I understand that there is a calibration D-VHS tape but it is only compatable with the JVC units (d-theater) not with my Mitsubishi HD-2000 tape unit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be careful. I had an ISF guy come to do my set and he was clueless. It took over 7 hours and he had to come back after consulting with others on how to take care of some problems. I was and am totally unsatisfied with the work that was done!*


----------



## icemannyr

That flickering line on the top of WABC-DT is worse tonight.

Do they know about it and have any ETA on a fix?


----------



## trekkerj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *Be careful. I had an ISF guy come to do my set and he was clueless. It took over 7 hours and he had to come back after consulting with others on how to take care of some problems. I was and am totally unsatisfied with the work that was done!*



We're off topic, but if anyone is thinking about ISF calibration, I wholeheartedly recommend Eliab @avical.com. Just a little unsolicited plug. You TV will look amazing and the guy knows his stuff.


----------



## kcn823




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *How do you do that? I can't get rid of Channel 12 for WPIX-DT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I just tried it and it worked for me. You have to go into settings, then channels, then off air channels. Then clear the scanned off air channels and then rescan. The only problem is that directv isn't getting the guide information yet. So you won't have any show names or times. It just says regular schedule. And I'm also getting WPIX twice, from Ch 12 and Ch 33. I read a solution to this is to unplug your antenna input and after the scanning passes channel 12 plug it back in. I'm going to hold off doing this until the guide data is available for ch 33.


But I am getting 9-1 which I wasn't getting before.


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vruiz_
> *That's okay. As long as you keep your contrast under 50% you should be fine. It's the contrast in torch mode what causes burn-in, not the brightness.*



I respectfully disagree...


50% on one set might be equivalent to 80% on another set and 10% on another...


In other words, all sets are different.


For example, proper base settings on my Philips 42PF9976/37 are:


Contrast: 84

Brightness: 49

Color: 46


You have to make sure you see what you're supposed to - not go by "numbers"


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *That flickering line on the top of WABC-DT is worse tonight.
> 
> Do they know about it and have any ETA on a fix?*



The flickering line - does it show up on all the HD broadcast shows, or just on the commercials between the shows?


I get the flickering line (not only on ABC, but others as well) when they aren't broadcasting in HD... Therefore, I just switch resolution on my D* box to 480p and problem solved... While this may technically be the proper solution, I'll admit it's a pain in the butt. On my HR10-250, all I have to do is hit the UP arrow to switch resolutions - easy for me, but on my previous box (RCA DCT-210), there was a hard switch on the front panel...this was *NOT* an acceptable solution IMHO by the D* box.


On some sets, you can alter picture size/position (either with the remote or through the service menu) to get around the problem. Unfortunately, on my Philips set, there isn't enough movement (I'm still 1-2 pixels short) north to get rid of the lines that way - and believe it or not, the Philips plasma service menu has NO adjustments/settings for size and/or position.


It seems that the issue is that some stations broadcast the programming in HD (720p or 1080i), but auto-switch to SD (480p) during commercials - and this causes the issue.


Now that said, like it or not, we're all early-adopters and most are techie-types - but when the rest of Joe Six-Pack America starts to invest in digital TV's, this resolution mismatch is going to prove to be a real bane to the stb manufacturers and the broadcasters - and you *KNOW* that each is going to be pointing their fingers at the other... Bottom line is, people are going to scream that they've paid $xK of dollars for digital/HDTV and they get a very distracting white line. And Joe Six-Pack will be absolutely right ...


If I have to get up and physically flip a switch on my cable/D* STB everytime a different show comes on, well, let's just say that I'm going to find other alternative forms of entertainment


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *It seems that the issue is that some stations broadcast the programming in HD (720p or 1080i), but auto-switch to SD (480p) during commercials - and this causes the issue.*



This is not the case. No HD station in NYC changes their format to 480p for commercials or anything else.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kcn823_
> *Then clear the scanned off air channels...*



This is the part I'm having trouble with! Exactly how do you do that with the LG LSS 3200a? (The same box as the Hughes and Sony HD 300)


----------



## icemannyr

I am guessing it's an issue with the ABC-HD feed and WABC-DT.

I notice it only on HD programming but not all the time.

When it happens the line also shows up on national ad's since they are on the hd network feed also.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *The flickering line - does it show up on all the HD broadcast shows, or just on the commercials between the shows?*


----------



## icemannyr

From Northern, NJ, I just tried my new silver sensor antenna and got WWOR-DT to tune in at 64% 17db signal.









With the antenna I can also pull in Ch52 WNJN-DT.


----------



## kcn823




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *This is the part I'm having trouble with! Exactly how do you do that with the LG LSS 3200a? (The same box as the Hughes and Sony HD 300)*



I'm not sure how do clear the scanned channels on the LG LSS 3200a. On the HD Tivo that is just one of the options.


----------



## michaelk




> _Originally posted by plasmafan_
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally posted by cpto
> I'd prefer that all HD stations broadcast 3:4 material the same way WCBS does, with gray borders...
> 
> 
> 
> Here,here! This has been bothering me because I use a Plasma monitor and I cant be the only one. WHY DONT the other stations take the hint from WCBS-DT and run gray bars when showing 4:3 content in a HD frame.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Is this asking too much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'cause its distracting as hell to those of us without plasma's who dont care about burn in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## SnellKrell

s2silber -


I have the Sony HD-300 - try this:


Menu

Setup

Favorite/Ch. Edit

Hilight the Channel You Want to Delete

Push Enter


At least when you're scanning channels up and down, the deleted channel won't show up.


I hope this helps.


Gary


----------



## vruiz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *I respectfully disagree...
> 
> 
> 50% on one set might be equivalent to 80% on another set and 10% on another...
> 
> 
> In other words, all sets are different.
> 
> 
> For example, proper base settings on my Philips 42PF9976/37 are:
> 
> 
> Contrast: 84
> 
> Brightness: 49
> 
> Color: 46
> 
> 
> You have to make sure you see what you're supposed to - not go by "numbers"*



Yes, of course all sets are different but proper is also a relative term, isn't it?


How exactly did you arrive at those settings? Did you use a color analyzer, or at the very least a calibration DVD? To have the contrast that close to the top of the scale is a recipe for disaster. I find it very hard to believe you arrived at those settings via any type of objective measuring method.


Remember we are talking about out-of-the-box settings and what you have is very close to torch mode. If you had your set ISF calibrated changes things though, since all the offsets would be done in the service menu and it's possible that whoever did your TV set the contrast at 84 in the user menu while properly adjusting it in the service menu. Possible, but highly unlikely. That's just not something I've seen any competent calibrationist do. They usually set the user menu near the middle and do the work in the service menu.


Bottom line, you believe whatever you want to believe, but keep the contrast that high *on an uncalibrated set*, you won't have it for very long, especially a plasma.


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vruiz_
> *Yes, of course all sets are different but proper is also a relative term, isn't it?
> 
> 
> How exactly did you arrive at those settings? Did you use a color analyzer, or at the very least a calibration DVD? To have the contrast that close to the top of the scale is a recipe for disaster. I find it very hard to believe you arrived at those settings via any type of objective measuring method.
> 
> 
> Remember we are talking about out-of-the-box settings and what you have is very close to torch mode. If you had your set ISF calibrated changes things though, since all the offsets would be done in the service menu and it's possible that whoever did your TV set the contrast at 84 in the user menu while properly adjusting it in the service menu. Possible, but highly unlikely. That's just not something I've seen any competent calibrationist do. They usually set the user menu near the middle and do the work in the service menu.
> 
> 
> Bottom line, you believe whatever you want to believe, but keep the contrast that high on an uncalibrated set, you won't have it for very long, especially a plasma.*



Service menu hasn't been touched. I set it up with S&V DVD. As I stated in my original post, "You have to make sure you see what you're supposed to - not just go by the numbers." If I set my contrast at 50% on my set, it's unwatchable - and I have to crank the brightness way up to see any fine detail - which causes me to lose any pure blacks...the blacks turn grey.


And, btw, these settings are nowhere NEAR the "torch mode" settings (on Philips, it is known as RICH setting). These settings are very very close to the recommended NATURAL setting on the menu...with a little tweaking here and there..


And, I'm certain that, contrary to popular belief, my plasma will be around a very long time. I make this statement based on my original post, and will use this analogy.... I have a Mesa Boogie 50 watt tube amp, my son has a 50 watt Marshall tube amp. His Marshall gets way louder at 8 than mine does.... but at 10, they're about the same...


Controls (digital AND analog) have different response curves built into them. I can design/build pot(entiometers), with equal low and high impedances, with VERY different ramps , but having identical values at the extremes...


I don't believe that any general assumption can be made about 50% (or 84% for that matter) being good or bad.... there just isn't enough information.


Happy viewing!

And Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grodgers_
> *His Marshall gets way louder at 8 than mine does.... but at 10, they're about the same...
> *



sure but how about 11?


----------



## grodgers




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *sure but how about 11?*



At 11, my wife leaves the house
























Then the neighbors bring beer over for a Friday night jam ...


----------



## icemannyr

This may have been mentioned but I noticed the 2nd sub on WNYW-DT, listed as WWOR-DT, has no video.

I am guessing soon WNYW-DT would have WNYW-TV (SD) as its sub and WWOR-DT would have WWOR-TV (SD) as it's sub.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's 6:51 p.m. and channel 5.2 is broadcasting (video and audio) of WWOR in SD.


Gary


----------



## icemannyr

Odd, my PC tuner gets 5-1 WNYW-DT in clear but 5-2 WWOR-DT has audio but no video.

BTW, the WNYW-TV SD feed looks better then WNYW-DT for non HD programming.


----------



## vruiz

Suit yourself. Don't say you weren't warned.


----------



## icemannyr

I noticed at 8pm WWOR-DT switched to color bars with the text NEW YORK TX HD.


I guess they still have some bugs to work out. I guess the UPN-HD feed is not passing 4:3 network content or is it somthing else?


----------



## mw390

Is WPIX-DT broadcasting now at 21:00 EST?


----------



## tmtech

It is at 21:10...



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *Is WPIX-DT broadcasting now at 21:00 EST?*


----------



## newhdcrt

The yule log will be on tommorowhttp

morning. Do you think WPIX DT will be broadcasting, and will it be HD? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon7.gif 

Smile


----------



## mw390

WPIX-DT


I guess what I should've said is it broadcasting in UHF. I had to make my STB do a re-scan and it didnt pick it up even after 2 scans


----------



## tmtech

Yes, it is... I can only receive the signal from the combiner and it was coming in strong at 9:15. And still is now.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *WPIX-DT
> 
> 
> I guess what I should've said is it broadcasting in UHF. I had to make my STB do a re-scan and it didnt pick it up even after 2 scans*


----------



## icemannyr

What channel is WPIX-DT?


Thanks


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *What channel is WPIX-DT?
> 
> 
> Thanks*



UHF 33


11-1


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by newhdcrt_
> *The yule log will be on tommorowhttp
> 
> morning. Do you think WPIX DT will be broadcasting, and will it be HD? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon7.gif
> 
> Smile*



it was not in HD, i recorded the first hour of it hoping to get it in HD but all that was on ch33 was the yule log with shutters


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by berniec_
> *it was not in HD, i recorded the first hour of it hoping to get it in HD but all that was on ch33 was the yule log with shutters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



It was in HD. This was discussed in the past. It apparently is an old film in 4:3 that was transferred to HD in its original aspect ratio.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *It was in HD. This was discussed in the past. It apparently is an old film in 4:3 that was transferred to HD in its original aspect ratio.*



interesting...good to know...and here i thought i got jipped


----------



## tmtech

WPIX oddness...


I know WPIX is currently testing so there may be issues from time to time as they work out the kinks. On my hr10-250 if I leave it on 11-1 for a while it tends to lose the signal and then never reacquire it until I change the channel and make it retune 11-1.


Has anyone else noticed a behavior like this? Right now WPIX is the only OTA that does this to me.


Thanks,

Tom


----------



## Taget

First thanks to everyone who replied awhile back when I queried about good equipment to use in the new york city environment. Very much appreciated. Didn't even up getting anything installed since I was never able to get back in touch with the installer who gave an estimate. And didn't have much luck finding anyone who was that clueful in the Staten Island phone book.


Something I found weird that happened to me. I was using a MyHD card with a silver sensor. It gave me a solid (70%) signal on CBS and a marginal right on the line signal with Fox and ABC (with usually Fox being just over the line and ABC being under). Then all of a sudden a few weeks ago my reception declined markedly. With CBS now being marginal and not terribly watchable with the dropouts.


One thing I noticed was no matter where I pointed the thing I got the exact same reception everywhere. Which made me think maybe it was interference from the computer or something else in the room since that was about the only explanation i could think for it to suddenly become non-directional. Tried replacing the sg6 cable. Tried disconnecting, replacing, and moving a few things from the computer and nothing seemed to solve the problem. Being repeat season and not watching too many CBS shows I kinda gave up on the thing for awhile but after checking over here and noticing the combiner was up I played around with it again.


To make a long story short. On a lark I switched antennas (taking what I thought to be a worthless "hdtv" radio shack antenna out of my closet that i bought before the silver sensor) and low and behold unlike the silver sensor the signal did shift when aimed in different directions.. And once pointed in the right direction I was able to pick up a number of HD stations again.


This rather surprised me since I didn't think the Silver Sensor being a fairly "simple" non-powered indoor antenna could just go "bad" on me. And even more of a surprise. In the past CBS was the solid performer while the WB was a pipe dream. Now CBS is solid but a tad shaky in the 40s. With the WB being my strongest station in the 60s (combiner must be working well for them).


Anyway was wondering if anyone else experienced anything similar.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

Can anyone confirm that they are getting a signal on 33 right now. I cannot seem to get anything above 13 or so. Compared to their broadcast of the wizard of Oz which as in the 70's to 80's


----------



## netman

They are coming in fine here in western Suffolk.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Anthony in NYC_
> *Can anyone confirm that they are getting a signal on 33 right now. I cannot seem to get anything above 13 or so. Compared to their broadcast of the wizard of Oz which as in the 70's to 80's*



Same thing here in the Stead of Hemp. I'm getting it, but not at the same signal strength as before. Prior to the combiner, when WPIX-DT was VHF 12, I was getting it great with 81% signal strength (on a scale of 100). Now since they've switched over to UHF 33 and started the testing, it comes in at about 60-61%, no breakups, but signal strength markedly lower than before. Hmmmmm......


----------



## mw390

WNBC-DT


Anybody start getting WNBC-DT 28 who havent been able to before? I started around 10PM. Unless this is the weather conditions affecting this


----------



## newhdcrt

No joy for me.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by newhdcrt_
> *No joy for me.*



Same here in Norther NJ


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *WNBC-DT
> 
> 
> Anybody start getting WNBC-DT 28 who havent been able to before? I started around 10PM. Unless this is the weather conditions affecting this*



I was getting it tonight. I would venture to guess it's the atmospheric conditions, unless the engineers came in and did combiner testing tonight. Yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiight.......


----------



## pmalve

I wonder why WPIX couldn't broadcast at full power and WWOR could. Here in CT 78 miles from ESB full power channels are coming in fine. WCBS seems easier than it was to receive. It used to be WNYW was the easiest followed by WABC and then WCBS. Now on Voom receiver WWOR has the strongest signal. 94 on meter as oppposed to high 80s for the others.


----------



## KCole

WPIX is in the process of testing their transmitter and have tenatively set a schedule of 4PM to 12 AM at 10% power. Firing up a transmitter is not plug and play.


----------



## mad6c

I am seeing the opposite. All of the station on the combiner come in great except for WCBS-DT. This used to be the most reliable station for me. Signal hovers around 60% but jumps around too much to keep a consistent lock. Signal strength for WPIX and WWOR stay around 90%.


Mike


----------



## SnellKrell

KCole -


Do I understand you correctly when you stated that WPIX is currently using only 10% of its power when it transmits between 4 p.m. and midnight?


I know that they are testing - but only 10% when they have HD programming scheduled? That sounds extremely low and to my

way of thinking - unlikely.


Would you mind confirming, please?


Thank you very much.


Gary


----------



## mw390

WPIX-DT


I think you guys should go to page 178 where the technician from WPIX states his station is on the air, does NOT stay on all the time (6pm to whataver) and is broadcasting at 25% power. He sounds like they dont want to zap anybody

by going full power


----------



## jgrahamiii

I need some help and advice. I live on Long Island, about 21 miles from the ESB. I used to get CBS, FOX, ABC, PAX and a spanish station at 68 fine. Since the combiner when on line, I get FOX, ABC, PIX, PAX, 68 and I get WOR inconsitently ( I tune to it at a 56 signal level, and then I lose it - my Dell Plasma requires the same number of channel ups or downs to get from 7-2 to 11-1 as if 9-1 and 9-2 were there, but nothing changes for the first two key presses until I re-scan for 38). CBS is just gone (and so is 11-2, btw). I've never been able to get NBC.


Per the Dell info screen, most stations are coming in with a signal level of about 52-67, with an SNL of 25db.


As I have a Radio Shack 15-2160 in the attic ponited at the ESB, I thought an inline amp would help. Bought the Radio shack and hooked it all up. then I got signal levels down to 0-20, no locks at all, and SNL of 10-16db.


Questions are as follows:

1. Do you think the inline amp was bad? Should I try a new one?

2. Do you think there might be something wrong with the Dell, in not getting CBS and losing WOR?


Thanks for any guidance.


----------



## PoitNarf

Ever since they started pumping signals through the combiner I am getting fantastic reception on pretty much everything. A signal from WB was undetectable before this. CBS, ABC, UPN, WB, PAX, NJN and several spanish language stations all come in at 100% signal strength. NBC and FOX come in pretty strong too at 90%. All of these stations stay at these levels and I've never had a drop out, with the exception of WB (I assume they are still testing their setup). I am using an RCA DTC210 with a Winegard SS-2000 antenna which is pretty much aimed directly at the ESB (I'm about 22 miles north). I highly recommend this antenna for anyone who has been having reception issues.


----------



## dcarpa

Not real sure - but my radio shack inline amp had problems by using the different hookups - something like a transformer for impedence matching thing - one came with the antenna, one came with the amp - my first setup did the same thing yours did, after i switched to the other transformer the other one it worked great (its the little connector that splits the coax into the two connectors


I'm out in commack and can get abc,cbs,9-1,fox,pbs, a couple of spanish - can get NBC with a turn of the antenna but since nothing is really on it I can wait until the situation improves for that one.


----------



## jaydee07

Hi I've been a long time lurker on these forujms and finally decided to register










I don't know if anyone else has this problem but I have not been able to receive WNBC period. I can get every other major network (cbs, fox, abc, upn, wpix) perfectly. I have not a clue as to why this happens. I've been rescanning the channels on my Samsung STB almost everyday during primetime, but I still get nothing. I've never been able to receive channel 4, so I'm contemplating getting a new antenna or should I wait till nbc starts broadcasting on this new combiner, or has that happened?


Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.










P.S- I live on Staten Island.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaydee07_
> *Hi I've been a long time lurker on these forujms and finally decided to register
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if anyone else has this problem but I have not been able to receive WNBC period. I can get every other major network (cbs, fox, abc, upn, wpix) perfectly. I have not a clue as to why this happens. I've been rescanning the channels on my Samsung STB almost everyday during primetime, but I still get nothing. I've never been able to receive channel 4, so I'm contemplating getting a new antenna or should I wait till nbc starts broadcasting on this new combiner, or has that happened?
> 
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S- I live on Staten Island.*



WNBC-DT is not on the combiner as yet... I would want until everyone is on the combiner before changing antenna now since it appears we are on the home stretch.


----------



## Signalseeker

Long time no post however long time no station changes, until recently. I'm receiving everything NY has to offer, except WNBC, here in Long Valley, NJ (Schooley's mountain). Strongest WCBS 90% weakest WPIX 66%. Also I am getting Montclair NJN @ 66%, Trenton NJN 90% and Philly CBS at 70%. Now if I can only pull in Fox, NBC and ABC from Philly.


Channel Master 4228 w/ 7775 preamp. Rotator a must.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Signalseeker_
> *Long time no post however long time no station changes, until recently. I'm receiving everything NY has to offer, except WNBC, here in Long Valley, NJ (Schooley's mountain). Strongest WCBS 90% weakest WPIX 66%. Also I am getting Montclair NJN @ 66%, Trenton NJN 90% and Philly CBS at 70%. Now if I can only pull in Fox, NBC and ABC from Philly.
> 
> 
> Channel Master 4228 w/ 7775 preamp. Rotator a must.*



Fellow Long Valley mountain-dweller here. It is surprising that your CBS-NY is so strong, given the channel 56 in Hazelton, PA at almost 180 deg from your NY heading. ABC is strongest for me, but I get Fox, CBS, UPN, Pax, Telemundo, and "ch68" from NYC. I only got PIX on their first night. Something must have changed after that. No NBC or PBS (13) but I can get Trenton and New Brunswick (ch8 DT) NJN. I'm waiting for full power transmissions from the combiner before I make any equipment changes.


Philly CBS is easy to receive, as is ABC. Fox and others from Philly are iffy. No NBC or PBS from Philly yet (if ever.)


Haven't tried WB/Scranton yet, but it's not a priority. Besides, many of their DTV allocations are on NYC VHF channels (and vice-versa!)


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaydee07_
> *I've been rescanning the channels on my Samsung STB almost everyday during primetime, but I still get nothing.*



By the way...you don't think you have to rescan on the Samsung STB to try and receive a channel. I have an SIR-T351 and all I have to do is just enter the real UHF frequency. For NBC 4-1 for example, enter 28. It should come back and display 28-0. If it can't receive it, it'll just display a 'no signal' message. If it can, it will receive the information about the station, the display will change to 4-1, and it will be in memory.


This is how I've been able to program in both NY and Philly stations (I'm in central NJ). I aimed my antenna for one of them and used the scan, and entered the other markets stations manually. By the way...I've been getting 4-1 at around 60 to 70%.


The only one I couldn't do this with was the older NY WPIX, which broadcast on 12. If I enter 12, it automatically assumes Philly 12-1 which I have in memory. By the way, here's a listing that shows the UHF frequencies:

http://www.nab.org/newsroom/issues/d...tvstations.asp 


Tom


----------



## jaydee07

Ahh okay.. thanks to everyone for the advice. I guess I'll wait a couple weeks or so before decideing whether to get a new a new antenna or not


----------



## Scott G

WNBC-DT is now on the Combiner !!!!!


Their is signal is about at 50%, and will increase hopefully later this week if everything goes well.


I am getting it very strong at about a signal strength of 90.


----------



## Infominister

Are you sure? I can't pick up even a glimmer of a signal. Before, when they were on top of the GE Building, I saw at least a blip (15%) of yellow. Don't have anything now.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Are you sure? I can't pick up even a glimmer of a signal. Before, when they were on top of the GE Building, I saw at least a blip (15%) of yellow. Don't have anything now.*



Yes, they are, but they are in test mode. They are only at 50% signal strength. The signal level should pick up hopefully by the end of the week. I am getting it stronger than on the GE building.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Yes, they are, but they are in test mode. They are only at 50% signal strength. The signal level should pick up hopefully by the end of the week. I am getting it stronger than on the GE building.*



NBC is definitely up and running. I am in Levittown and I am receiving a signal in the low to mid 90's. Normally, I receive low to mid 70's. Just waiting for WNET now (I already receive ABC just fine)!


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *NBC is definitely up and running. I am in Levittown and I am receiving a signal in the low to mid 90's. Normally, I receive low to mid 70's. Just waiting for WNET now (I already receive ABC just fine)!*



Yup, I am getting the about the same signal strength here in East Meadow.


It is definitely on the combiner. I got it from an impeccable source. They are only at 50% power so anyone who cannot get it yet, don't worry it is coming probably later this week.


----------



## hphase

Nothing out here in NW Jersey, but I am noticing that my Philly NTSC stations are comong in better, even though the antenna is pointed at NYC. Could this increase in "signal strength" for WNBC-DT be coincidence or is someone SURE that they are transmitting from the combiner?


I know there is work being done on the combiner this week, and I know everyone wants to help out with reception reports, but it would be nice if someone knew FOR SURE what was happening before we all go looking for that first reception report. That way no one gets flamed.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *Nothing out here in NW Jersey, but I am noticing that my Philly NTSC stations are comong in better, even though the antenna is pointed at NYC. Could this increase in "signal strength" for WNBC-DT be coincidence or is someone SURE that they are transmitting from the combiner?
> 
> 
> I know there is work being done on the combiner this week, and I know everyone wants to help out with reception reports, but it would be nice if someone knew FOR SURE what was happening before we all go looking for that first reception report. That way no one gets flamed.*



I am 100% sure they are transmitting from the combiner. I also am sure it is at 50% signal strength. So it will get stronger. Probably by the end of the week. Trust me, I was notified by someone who would know about this.


----------



## hphase

Sorry for the crossed post. Now someone just needs to get channel 28 from Scranton to shut down. What do they need three million watts for? (Just a joke.)


----------



## tmtech

It's definitely on the combiner... 've never gotten above 13% for NBC before now it's in the mid 70's. My antennae points to ESB so I never could see the NBC signal until just now.


Tom



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Are you sure? I can't pick up even a glimmer of a signal. Before, when they were on top of the GE Building, I saw at least a blip (15%) of yellow. Don't have anything now.*


----------



## Scott G

Guys, trust me on this one. There is no dispute here. They are on the combiner. I also know for a fact, they are at 50% so hang in there it will get much, much stronger and soon.


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Signalseeker_
> *Long time no post however long time no station changes, until recently. I'm receiving everything NY has to offer, except WNBC, here in Long Valley, NJ (Schooley's mountain). Strongest WCBS 90% weakest WPIX 66%. Also I am getting Montclair NJN @ 66%, Trenton NJN 90% and Philly CBS at 70%. Now if I can only pull in Fox, NBC and ABC from Philly.
> 
> 
> Channel Master 4228 w/ 7775 preamp. Rotator a must.*



Good old Schooley's Mountain...I love that area. I used to live down in the valley in Mansfield. I used to use a huge Channel master antenna purchased at Radio Shack in Blairstown to receive analog locals from NY and Philly.


Want to buy my old tower???
http://p078.ezboard.com/fdigitaltele...opicID=2.topic 


I'm in Little Falls NJ now. (15 mile west of the ESB)


I receive today...


2.1 CBS

4.1, 4.2 NBC

5.1, 5.2 FOX

7.1, 7.2 ABC

9.1, 9.2 UPN

11.1, 11.2 WB

31.1PAX

41.1 Spanish

50.1-50.5 PBS

68.1 Spanish


Today is the first time that I've seen NBC in a year. I trust that the combiner has a role in this but am realistic that atmospheric conditions do help. UPN has been constantly strong. WB still breaks up and pixels. NBC looks good so far.


As I get these channels OTA, I block them out on my DirecTV. I prefer OTA.


----------



## Jonathann_K

Unbelievable. I'm getting NBC finally too. I live 30 blocks from the ESB with a direct view, and was never able to get 4.1 4.2 until today!


----------



## HoundBaby

Getting 7 to 8 bars out of 10 on my Samsumg SIR-T451 signal strength on 4.1 and 4.2 . no problems here. Denville NJ . 31 miles west of the ESB.


----------



## jaydee07

Wow.. so my post was right on target. After i saw Scott's post, I tried to tune in, and it worked! woohoo!


----------



## dlan

Solid 60-70% for WNBC-DT on my HDTIVO in Hackensack NJ.


----------



## mikeny

It's nice to see 4.1 again since my antenna was turned for everything else over the summer, but it's breaking up every so often. (not to bad though) It's at about 59%. I would imagine there's a good drop every now and then. The HR10-250 tuner seems to have a harder time holding the singal than the TVs tuner. Could just be timing though. I had never seen the 4.2 Weather Channel before. It's convenient to have in the winter. lol


Hopefully the extra power will do the trick soon and then on to WNET!


----------



## vinnyv07

Getting NBC at 92 sig ...here in SI. Very happy indeed....OTA is so much better than anything over sat. All we need now is for PBS to get their act together and we will be good to go.


----------



## Mach5




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jonathann_K_
> *Unbelievable. I'm getting NBC finally too. I live 30 blocks from the ESB with a direct view, and was never able to get 4.1 4.2 until today!*




Jonathann_K:


What type of antenna do you have?? Indoor/outdoor?? Model #?? I down here in Chinatown - Lower East Side - couldn't get WNBC at all. There is 20+ stories high-rise between my building and ESB. However, CBS, FOX(UPN on 5.2), ABC and WB all come in mid 60-70 % signal. TIA.


----------



## spankle

NBC reined in last night.. fantastic!


Anybody have an update on WPIX's power-up timetable?

It was stated that they are only broadcasting at 25% power.

Is that accurate?

Scottie, I need more power!

I can't lock WPIX.

Anyone have the scoop on this?


I love this over the air crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Getting NBC at 92 sig ...here in SI. Very happy indeed....OTA is so much better than anything over sat. All we need now is for PBS to get their act together and we will be good to go.*



Does anyone know who to call or write to at WNET to urge them on, or at least get some accurate information?


----------



## SnellKrell

Your calling or writing WNET will serve little purpose. The station's management wants to be back as much or more than you. All that is curretnly known is that they will be on the combiner sometime after the first of the year.


Gary


----------



## dlan

Anyone know when the stations will update their status with Tribune?

Tribune is the guide data provider for the HD Tivo and without guide data I can't setup season pass for shows on WIPX-DT and WWOR-DT.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Your calling or writing WNET will serve little purpose. The station's management wants to be back as much or more than you. All that is curretnly known is that they will be on the combiner sometime after the first of the year.
> 
> 
> Gary*



If you call, or better yet, write to WNET it will certainly be appreciated. Gary is right, if you call or write to COMPLAIN about what they are doing or why they're doing it, it won't be appreciated. Constructive criticism, however, is just as well received as outright support.


Channel 13 had stated on-air that they want to hear from their HD viewers. Granted, some of that wish might be to find new members, but that is part of what they do.


WNET is a large producer of programs for PBS, and full mailbags are undeniable "evidence" that viewers, in this case high-definition viewers, are out there. Many of the programs that WNET producers are either done in HD or are ideally suited to it. This includes DD5.1, which they recently started passing on to their HD viewers.


I think most participants on these boards realize that support is always appreciated and complaining, while sometimes tolerated, gets old real fast. I hope WNET gets on the combiner soon. OTA is what TV (and PBS) is all about!


----------



## Infominister

Does anyone know if the digital transmissions for WNBC, WPIX or WWOR are on the combiner right Now? I've been trying to scan for any of them for the past week or so, and can't get a thing.


----------



## mw390

Are of em are, however I cant lock WPIX all the yime. I think they're not putting out as much power


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Does anyone know if the digital transmissions for WNBC, WPIX or WWOR are on the combiner right Now? I've been trying to scan for any of them for the past week or so, and can't get a thing.*



All 3 are on the combiner now. What kind of receiver are you trying to pick up the feeds on?


On my Samsung TS360, I had to rescan for my zip code, then do a channel scan under the cable/antenna menu.


----------



## John Chu

HDTV OTA disapointment in Flushing, NY

=========================


I live in Woodside--and OTA reception from the 3rd floor of my apartment is fantastic using a Radio Shack double bowtie indoor antenna and especially with the combiner coming online...


However, I thought the same would hold true in Flushing, NY at my parents apartment, (which is just a few miles to the east) so I blindly bought a HDTV set for my folks for Christmas with built in tuner and a Silver Sensor antenna...


It wasn't until I set everything up that I realized that being surrounded by other apartment buildings and having no ability to mount an outdoor antenna, that OTA is impossible in that location/situation.


We get nothing in that apartment...


Guess I really should have used Antennaweb.org first...


Any one have any ideas? Looks like Time Warner cable might be our only choice...


----------



## Yung

John,

Have you tried other indoor antennas? I'm in Oakland Gardens, slightly south east of Flushing and have pretty good HD reception with my Sony TV's built in HD tuner. I have it hooked up to a old roof antennae now but was previously using an 8-yr old Rectocon amplied indoor antenna with rabbit ears and was able to pick up some ota HD signals. However, I am not surrounded by large apartment buildings so that may also be a reason.


----------



## John Chu

I'm basically stupid in that I should have checked first to see the capability of receiving the standard analog VHF stations from the ESB in Flushing before optimistically thinking I could pull it in OTA digital signals with an indoor antenna.


Too bad there doesn't exist things like "repeaters" for OTA HDTV....they could put something like that in the center of Queens/Brooklyn to repeat the signal from the main antenna to expand the coverage area etc.


I mean, this isn't analog transmission.....couldn't it work?


----------



## dcarpa

Cant lock ABC today, yesterday was great - can get CBS, FOX, 9-1, and my others (not NBC, never could, not even with their current testing). I'm out in Commack on LI - are they testing or is it just a bad tropo day?


----------



## mw390

Get ALL the channels < 13 EXCEPT WPIX any time I punch em up.


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *Too bad there doesn't exist things like "repeaters" for OTA HDTV....they could put something like that in the center of Queens/Brooklyn to repeat the signal from the main antenna to expand the coverage area etc.
> 
> 
> I mean, this isn't analog transmission.....couldn't it work?*



Digital television translators and digital on-channel repeaters are authorized by the FCC. Usually you find these in very rural areas in the shadow of mountains.


de WB9YRR

George


----------



## dturturro

Is anyone with an HR10-250 having problems with WPIX-DT? All of a sudden I have to manually enter 12-3 or 33-3 to tune it in. I've tried restarting and rescanning with no results.


----------



## dcarpa

at about 5:30 or so ABC came back up for me, great lock, no breakups - either something weird in the atmosphere or maybe testing


A digital repeater anywhere in a metro area wouldnt work because of multipath, maybe the translator but then the number of channels that need to be allocated goes through the roof


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrisb3_
> *All 3 are on the combiner now. What kind of receiver are you trying to pick up the feeds on?*



It's the LG LSS 3200A DirecTV HD receiver. While it's gone now, I did have 9-1 for a while, but I still can't capture WNBC, WPIX or WWOR. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## PDPnNJ

WOW, I'm able to get WCBS, WNBC, WABC, WWOR, WNYW and WPIX without moving my antenna for the first time ever !!!! I love this combiner project. Best Xmas present ever !!!


----------



## mw390

Something intersting just happened at 20:10 EST. I punched 9 and I get 9-1/9-2 on my dispplay and then 1/2 second later it flashes 38-1/38-2. Cant punch 9 any more. Have to punch 38 now.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, my 9.1 and 9.2 have migrated over to 38.3 and 38.4.


Also, WNBC-DT is now my strongest and steadiest signal!


Gary


----------



## newhdcrt

Not getting WNBC 28 in central jersey. Did a scan with the dish 921 and it didn't come up.

Manually entering the channel gives me no picture and a fluctuating signal strength from 0 to 70. They must be testing.


----------



## little_blaine




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *I'm basically stupid in that I should have checked first to see the capability of receiving the standard analog VHF stations from the ESB in Flushing before optimistically thinking I could pull it in OTA digital signals with an indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> Too bad there doesn't exist things like "repeaters" for OTA HDTV....they could put something like that in the center of Queens/Brooklyn to repeat the signal from the main antenna to expand the coverage area etc.
> 
> 
> I mean, this isn't analog transmission.....couldn't it work?*



Flushing should be well-covered already... people are getting good reception much further from NYC than you. However, not even a repeater would help you unless you have good line-of-sight to it or can pick up bouncing signals.


Have you tried moving your antenna around? You may be able to pick up a signal bouncing off a building at an angle not directly pointing to ESB.


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by little_blaine_
> *
> 
> Have you tried moving your antenna around? You may be able to pick up a signal bouncing off a building at an angle not directly pointing to ESB.*



I will try that...I will go back later with a longer length of cable and see if I can reorient around...or maybe even move the antenna to another room.


As for line of sight...that is the biggest problem....


My parents are on the second floor of a six story apartment and directly across the street is another apartment buliding directly blocking line of sight to Manhattan...


If they were only a higher floor...


Thanks for the hints.


----------



## RMSko

I'm in Westfield, NJ and am now getting all the stations except WB, however, NBC is still only in the 60's (with a fluctuating signal). Hopefully it's because they are not a full signal strength. One thing that is strange is that when my HD TiVo locks in on "28" it shows it as 4-2 and not 4-1. Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## Bob Hawley




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Reselect your local area, clear scanned off-air channels then rescan. That did the trick for me.*



I did all of that last night around 9:30, and the HR10-250 picked up some new channels but not 9-1. And recently 5-1, which, along with 2-1, was my strongest, has been pixellating so badly that I've switched all of my Fox Season passes to channel 88. When ABC comes on line, I'll probably do the same, and I bet that from now on, I watch very little HD OTA. Does anyone else think that it's an odd coincidence that just as the combiner is getting installed, DirecTV managed to find room for all the other HD local network channels?


----------



## mw390

Try 38-1 for channel 9-1


----------



## AlanMa

I live in an apartment house, 15th floor, some 12 blocks or so from the Empire State Building and though I have no direct view of the Building from the room with my TV, a Panny plasma, have been getting all, one somewhat spotty, of these stations with a Zenith indoor antenna. But so far I do not see any improvement over what I see via TW. I will keep looking. Of course, I am getting a few channels, not HDTV, on cable. But does anyone really expect the Mets in HDTV on WPIX as someone here suggested? It's all fun though.


----------



## dm145

Some Mets home games are in HD via MSG or PIX!


----------



## KCole




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *KCole -
> 
> 
> Do I understand you correctly when you stated that WPIX is currently using only 10% of its power when it transmits between 4 p.m. and midnight?
> 
> 
> I know that they are testing - but only 10% when they have HD programming scheduled? That sounds extremely low and to my
> 
> way of thinking - unlikely.
> 
> 
> Would you mind confirming, please?
> 
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Gary,

I spoke to the engineers at WPIX this afternoon and they will remain at their lower power setting until their testing and work is complete. WCBS went through the same power level testing when they first started up.


Thanks,

KCole


----------



## KCole




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *I need some help and advice. I live on Long Island, about 21 miles from the ESB. I used to get CBS, FOX, ABC, PAX and a spanish station at 68 fine. Since the combiner when on line, I get FOX, ABC, PIX, PAX, 68 and I get WOR inconsitently ( I tune to it at a 56 signal level, and then I lose it - my Dell Plasma requires the same number of channel ups or downs to get from 7-2 to 11-1 as if 9-1 and 9-2 were there, but nothing changes for the first two key presses until I re-scan for 38). CBS is just gone (and so is 11-2, btw). I've never been able to get NBC.
> 
> 
> Per the Dell info screen, most stations are coming in with a signal level of about 52-67, with an SNL of 25db.
> 
> 
> As I have a Radio Shack 15-2160 in the attic ponited at the ESB, I thought an inline amp would help. Bought the Radio shack and hooked it all up. then I got signal levels down to 0-20, no locks at all, and SNL of 10-16db.
> 
> 
> Questions are as follows:
> 
> 1. Do you think the inline amp was bad? Should I try a new one?
> 
> 2. Do you think there might be something wrong with the Dell, in not getting CBS and losing WOR?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any guidance.*



The in-line amp could be the problem. It's possible that if you are only 21 miles out you could be overloading the amplifier and creating distortion. At that point, reception is unpredictable. You might try a higher gain antenna and not use the amplifier. The amplifier is seeing all of the terestrial signals both NTSC and HDTV. Radio Shack in-line amps are not the best performers


Thanks,


----------



## AlanMa




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Some Mets home games are in HD via MSG or PIX!*



I can't get MSG on TW. so HD on PIX will be fun this summer, that is, if they are better than they were towards the end of next year. Now, what about some local Yankee broadcasts in HDTV. I guess not. The ones on national TV aren't enough for me and with George Steinbrunner's millions, the YES network is still not HDTV.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bob Hawley_
> *I did all of that last night around 9:30, and the HR10-250 picked up some new channels but not 9-1. And recently 5-1, which, along with 2-1, was my strongest, has been pixellating so badly that I've switched all of my Fox Season passes to channel 88. When ABC comes on line, I'll probably do the same, and I bet that from now on, I watch very little HD OTA. Does anyone else think that it's an odd coincidence that just as the combiner is getting installed, DirecTV managed to find room for all the other HD local network channels?*



If 38-1 doesn't work try 38-2 & 38-3.


----------



## Paperboy2003

I know that YES had stated that they planned on going HD. I wouldn't be surprised if it is in time for this coming season. The question then becomes who picks it up and broadcasts it that way....


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KCole_
> *The in-line amp could be the problem. It's possible that if you are only 21 miles out you could be overloading the amplifier and creating distortion. At that point, reception is unpredictable. You might try a higher gain antenna and not use the amplifier. The amplifier is seeing all of the terestrial signals both NTSC and HDTV. Radio Shack in-line amps are not the best performers
> 
> 
> Thanks,*



I'm getting the same exact LOW readings whether the power supply for the inline amp is plugged in, or not plugged in. This suggests to me the amp or power supply is bad or the power is not getting up the line, somehow. Does this sound right, or is it still possible that the amp is overloading? Thanks!


----------



## DTVDAD




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Some Mets home games are in HD via MSG or PIX!*



Actually ALL Mets Home Games are in HD either on WPIX, MSG-HD or FOX Sports NY-HD. WPIX is OTA and the others are "Only on cable". Good thing CV just released their iO HD-DVR, mine gets installed next Wednesday.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DTVDAD_
> *Actually ALL Mets Home Games are in HD either on WPIX, MSG-HD or FOX Sports NY-HD. WPIX is OTA and the others are "Only on cable". Good thing CV just released their iO HD-DVR, mine gets installed next Wednesday.*



They're not just "only on cable" they're only on Cablevision.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *I know that YES had stated that they planned on going HD. I wouldn't be surprised if it is in time for this coming season. The question then becomes who picks it up and broadcasts it that way....*



Hopefully cable and D* will pick up YES HD for the 2005 season. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that WWOR will be showing Yankee games in HD in 2005.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrisb3_
> *Hopefully cable and D* will pick up YES HD for the 2005 season. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that WWOR will be showing Yankee games in HD in 2005.*



WWOR/UPN 9 broadcasts Yankees games? Is their some new deal I haven't heard of? Did you mean WNYW/FOX 5?


----------



## HoundBaby




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *I'm getting the same exact LOW readings whether the power supply for the inline amp is plugged in, or not plugged in. This suggests to me the amp or power supply is bad or the power is not getting up the line, somehow. Does this sound right, or is it still possible that the amp is overloading? Thanks!*



Test it with the Analog stations . See you are getting the same reading with it powered up . I have the same RS amp. With out power on it all my reception drops. Or try it with out the Amp . But you will need to get up to the antenna to by pass the amp that is mounted on the mast.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *WWOR/UPN 9 broadcasts Yankees games? Is their some new deal I haven't heard of? Did you mean WNYW/FOX 5?*



From NY Times :


Airwaves


Early next month, the YES Network is expected to announce that the 20-game Yankees broadcast package that has been televised by Channel 2 will move to Channel 9 and Channel 5. Most of the games will be on Channel 9, and it is possible that all will be on the channel, which was the longtime Mets' broadcaster. Channel 5 and Channel 9 are owned by News Corporation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/31/sp...1sandomir.html


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HoundBaby_
> *Test it with the Analog stations . See you are getting the same reading with it powered up . I have the same RS amp. With out power on it all my reception drops. Or try it with out the Amp . But you will need to get up to the antenna to by pass the amp that is mounted on the mast.*



I have to look. I have an unamplified UHF only antenna. Hopefully I can pull in Channel 31 Analog and check that out. I don't know, though, if the TV will show me signal strength on an analog station. Thanks. -John


----------



## mw390

Last night after midnight 4-1, 11-1, 38-1 went out and shortly thereafter WCBS. The only one back today is WCBS and 38-1. Anybody else get the same?


----------



## dcarpa

Yeah - they were out until after 3:30AM (baby duty). I've got a signal for NBC but cant transmit - rumor was they would up the power at the end of the week, isnt that today??????


Any Time Square stuff in HD?


----------



## dcarpa

didnt mean "cant trasmit" for NBC, meant "cant lock"


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dcarpa_
> *Any Time Square stuff in HD?*



Yup, on Voom.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *I know that YES had stated that they planned on going HD. I wouldn't be surprised if it is in time for this coming season. The question then becomes who picks it up and broadcasts it that way....*



YES has been producing Yankees games in HD since this pasy July. The problem is, they haven't inked any deals for anyone to show them that way. They didn't even come to an agreement with WCBS, which could certainly show it in HD. Hopefully, this will change. Right now the only person who can see the games in HD is George.


----------



## Infominister

Can anyone tell me which, if any, of the stations besides WCBS are currently on the combiner and which, if any, are at full power? I can't scan in 33, 38 or 28. I'm using the LG LSS 3200a DirecTV tuner.


----------



## mw390

WCBS, WNBC, WWOR, WPIX. Only WCBS is at full power


----------



## AlanMa




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *From NY Times :
> 
> 
> Airwaves
> 
> 
> Early next month, the YES Network is expected to announce that the 20-game Yankees broadcast package that has been televised by Channel 2 will move to Channel 9 and Channel 5. Most of the games will be on Channel 9, and it is possible that all will be on the channel, which was the longtime Mets' broadcaster. Channel 5 and Channel 9 are owned by News Corporation.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/31/sp...1sandomir.html *



But am I correct in assuming that just because they will be on channel 9 and its HD station, there is no guarantee that they will be in HD?


----------



## bs77

Why is UPN channel 9 only coming up on 38-3 ?? Why is it not on 9-1 like it was in the beginning of the week ???


When I first did a scan on my HD-Tivo last week it came up as 9-1 but now all rescan's cant see it only at 38-3. 9-1 comes in as "searching for signal" This is not very Wife and Kid friendly.


Also I want to start setting up Season passes for WB 11-1 and UPN 38-3 but the Guide info is still not there on my HD-Tivo, it just says "regular schedule" in the Grid guide. Its been a week I though by now Directv would of updated the info. Any insider Info would be appreciated, THANKS and Happy New Year


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *Why is UPN channel 9 only coming up on 38-3 ?? Why is it not on 9-1 like it was in the beginning of the week ???
> 
> 
> When I first did a scan on my HD-Tivo last week it came up as 9-1 but now all rescan's cant see it only at 38-3. 9-1 comes in as "searching for signal" This is not very Wife and Kid friendly.
> 
> 
> Also I want to start setting up Season passes for WB 11-1 and UPN 38-3 but the Guide info is still not there on my HD-TiVo, it just says "regular schedule" in the Grid guide. Its been a week I though by now DirecTV would of updated the info. Any insider Info would be appreciated, THANKS and Happy New Year*



I've tried contacting D* and the stations directly. No luck so far. Does anyone know how to get in touch with Tribune? They provide the guide info, don't they?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I've tried contacting D* and the stations directly. No luck so far. Does anyone know how to get in touch with Tribune? They provide the guide info, don't they?*



You can try to pass your information to one of these e-mail addresses at WWOR. They will pass the information along to the appropiate people. They did that for me. Write here :

[email protected] 


or

[email protected]


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *Why is UPN channel 9 only coming up on 38-3 ?? Why is it not on 9-1 like it was in the beginning of the week ???
> 
> 
> When I first did a scan on my HD-Tivo last week it came up as 9-1 but now all rescan's cant see it only at 38-3. 9-1 comes in as "searching for signal" This is not very Wife and Kid friendly.
> 
> 
> Also I want to start setting up Season passes for WB 11-1 and UPN 38-3 but the Guide info is still not there on my HD-Tivo, it just says "regular schedule" in the Grid guide. Its been a week I though by now Directv would of updated the info. Any insider Info would be appreciated, THANKS and Happy New Year*



i can confirm this is the case on my Samsung 160. mapping as 38-1 with no call letters displayed much less prog. info.... guide data issue? well let's let 'em work on it.

BTW D* subs WABC-DT is live on D* ch 86!!!


jim


----------



## HDntheCity

PS getting every station on the combiner tho NBC is a bit spotty. and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! and thanks for all the priceless info.


jim


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by AlanMa_
> *But am I correct in assuming that just because they will be on channel 9 and its HD station, there is no guarantee that they will be in HD?*



Correct, they were on CBS and never in HD!


----------



## trekkerj

ABC is giving me half a screen this morning. I plan to watch many bowl games on ABC today, somebody better wake up and fix it.


----------



## Infominister

It's fixed now.


----------



## hobbes382

With the combiner up now (don't know if most stations are at full power yet), has anyone in CT been able to receive broadcasts from ESB? I'm in the Danbury area and can pick up VHF stuff from NY very nicely. UHF reception however is not good. Feedback from anyone in the general area would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## tmtech

If you go back a few pages you'll see that the WPIX folks said they were just in testing. Once they go "production" they'll inform DTV about the change and DTV will start providing guide data for that channel. Until then you need to get the info from either the 12-1 WPIX or the sat local and then manual schedule the recording.


I'd think they'd be up soon since they've been in test for a little over a week now.


Tom



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I've tried contacting D* and the stations directly. No luck so far. Does anyone know how to get in touch with Tribune? They provide the guide info, don't they?*


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hobbes382_
> *With the combiner up now (don't know if most stations are at full power yet), has anyone in CT been able to receive broadcasts from ESB? I'm in the Danbury area and can pick up VHF stuff from NY very nicely. UHF reception however is not good. Feedback from anyone in the general area would be greatly appreciated.*



I am in Wilton, Ct. I think my OTA antenna is a Winegard Sensar (i.e. bat wing) provided as the standard Voom installation. I am receiving ABC, 7.1 and 7.2, the most reliably and CBS 2.1 with somewhat less reliability. Fox and UPN, 5.1 and 5.2, only sporadically. The rest are no shows. I did some research today and think I have discovered my OTA antenna is not pointed correctly. It seems to be aligned due South or at 180 degrees. Based upon my research on the web I believe the ESB tower is at 231 degrees from my location. I assume that re-aiming would improve my reception. You might want to check the orientation of your antenna.


----------



## Gary Quiring

I am confused about what stations are actually on the combiner right now. For the stations that are on the combiner why would there signal strengths vary if they are all using the same antenna? Also if UPN & WB are at 1/4 power why am I seeing mid 80's and CBS I am seeing low 90's?



HR10-250 Tivo OTA tuner:

33 WPIX-DT 85

38 UPN 83

44 WNYW-DT 78

45 WABC-DT 0-65 (not steady at all)

56 WCBS-HD 92


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I am confused about what stations are actually on the combiner right now. For the stations that are on the combiner why would there signal strengths vary if they are all using the same antenna? Also if UPN & WB are at 1/4 power why am I seeing mid 80's and CBS I am seeing low 90's?
> 
> 
> 
> HR10-250 Tivo OTA tuner:
> 
> 33 WPIX-DT 85
> 
> 38 UPN 83
> 
> 44 WNYW-DT 78
> 
> 45 WABC-DT 0-65 (not steady at all)
> 
> 56 WCBS-HD 92*



First, have you tried using an attenuator? The HR10-250 is somewhat picky about signal levels.


Different frequencies have different propogation qualities, so there can be differences; you may also be getting some interference from other sources, affecting only specific frequencies.


Finally, the "signal strength" is really a measure of signal quality, so the power in the transmission doesn't necessarily translate to different signal readings; what will matter is how good the signal is. A very low strength signal that your unit receives perfectly would measure in the 90's but a very strong signal with lots of multipath or interference may not register much of anything because the receiver is unable to decode much or any of it.


First thing I'd try since you have a HR10-250 is getting a variable attenuator from Radio Shack -- or if you have any 2-way splitters laying around, you could put one or two of them inline with your antenna input on the HR10-250 to similarly attenuate the signal and see if that helps WABC.


Though now that WABC-DT is carried by DirecTV on channel 86, and you're in NJ/NYC market (so you definitely qualify to get it), you could always just use that instead of worrying about it.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I am confused about what stations are actually on the combiner right now. For the stations that are on the combiner why would there signal strengths vary if they are all using the same antenna? Also if UPN & WB are at 1/4 power why am I seeing mid 80's and CBS I am seeing low 90's?
> 
> 
> 
> HR10-250 Tivo OTA tuner:
> 
> 33 WPIX-DT 85
> 
> 38 UPN 83
> 
> 44 WNYW-DT 78
> 
> 45 WABC-DT 0-65 (not steady at all)
> 
> 56 WCBS-HD 92*



according to previous posts WCBS, WNBC, WWOR, & WPIX are on the combiner in testing mode. WNYW uses its own antenna on the ESB & WABC is still on the Conde-Nast building. i am only 3/4 of a mile from the ESB & get 100 on everything BUT: CBS has fairly many dropouts. UPN less so. NBC about the same as UPN. WB is rock steady(so is WABC but i have to turn my S Sensor 180 degrees) can't get Fox at all unless i move the antenna several feet.


jim


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *First, have you tried using an attenuator? The HR10-250 is somewhat picky about signal levels.
> 
> 
> Though now that WABC-DT is carried by DirecTV on channel 86, and you're in NJ/NYC market (so you definitely qualify to get it), you could always just use that instead of worrying about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I am happy ABC is on D* so I will not even try the OTA anymore. But I am worried about UPN & WB. I don't get a great OTA except CBS but even it has had it's days of dropouts. I have a Channel Master amp between the antenna and my HR10. Without it my OTA was worse. With that would tinkering with an attenuator still be useful?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I am happy ABC is on D* so I will not even try the OTA anymore. But I am worried about UPN & WB. I don't get a great OTA except CBS but even it has had it's days of dropouts. I have a Channel Master amp between the antenna and my HR10. Without it my OTA was worse. With that would tinkering with an attenuator still be useful?*



What kind of antenna are you using and where is it (and how high above the ground is it)?


I have a Channel Master 4228 in my attic and a 7777 preamp, about 36 feet above ground level, and even pre-combiner got all the NYC stations, including WB11 (though WB11 was a bit shaky sometimes) at just over 30 miles from NYC, in Long Branch.


I was able to get everything except WB11 with a Winegard Square Shooter, with or without amp, though haven't hooked it back up to try since the combiner went online -- I figured I'd wait until everyone was full power and DirecTV had been notified of the channel mapping changes.


----------



## Ken Ross

I've noticed the last couple of days that my WNBC-HD signal is very weak. Anyone else having this issue?


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *What kind of antenna are you using and where is it (and how high above the ground is it)?*



The an antenna is an old VHF/UHF in the attic (2 floor house). I am only about 20' above sea level and I have some very large trees due north of me (about 150 feet from the house and about three times the height of the house). I also tried a silver sensor and had worse results.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *The an antenna is an old VHF/UHF in the attic (2 floor house). I am only about 20' above sea level and I have some very large trees due north of me (about 150 feet from the house and about three times the height of the house). I also tried a silver sensor and had worse results.*



Well, unlike satellite signals, the trees aren't as big a problem for OTA, though if the trunks were really large and it was really dense, I could see it having an effect.


You certainly could do better with a higher performance antenna; there's no need for VHF now that WPIX is using channel 33 for their digital broadcasts, though even channel 12 can be received decently by many UHF antennas.


The 4228 ( http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/4228.htm ) is a nice compact antenna since it's a 8-bay bowtie style (about 40"x40"x6"); pretty easy for an attic install. The 4248 is a standard Yagi style and is 80.5" long, it is more directional, but not as high a gain as the 4228, so it might be helpful with severe multipath problems, but so-so because you need an attic install and have a wall of trees, so more gain would be helpful.


I haven't paid a lot of attention to some other Yagi antennas, but I know there's people around here that are big on one or two other brands right now that seem to be rather good performers. They may edge out the 4228, but they're probably not all that far from it anyway.


Is the preamp you have the Channel Master 7777 or 7775? Those are the highest gain/lowest noise. If you have a different one, there might be some help to be had by switching.


A lot of this is just plain guesswork and trial and error; ideally you find what works out well for someone nearby and duplicate that as a start.


I helped install the exact same setup I have (4228, 7777 preamp, 9521A rotator) in the attic of a friends house up in Keyport and they have the same experience with reception I have... all good. The rotator is useful for aiming; it's a "waste" in the sense that once you've aimed it, you'll rarely move it again, but you can if you want; you can get some Philadelphia stations too. But the ability to tweak it for the best signal is nice without having to run back and forth and all that.


----------



## DVW

Is there any HD programming on UPN or WB?


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *I've noticed the last couple of days that my WNBC-HD signal is very weak. Anyone else having this issue?*



I haven't gotten it well since the first day it was reported they were testing on the combiner.


----------



## RZ

Don't be so happy that DirecTV is now adding more local HD stations(ABC recently). I've noticed that they still compress even those local HD stations as they do every other feed. The OTA reception seems to be better for HD clarity for every local HD station that I can receive. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DVW_
> *Is there any HD programming on UPN or WB?*



yes, a fair amount actually. WB has GILMORE GIRLS, REBA, THE MOUNTAIN, EVERWOOD, & SMALLVILLE. UPN you have the teen drama VERONICA MARS, KEVIN HILL, & GIRLFRIENDS. and don't forget ENTERPRISE when the season renews. in fact the entire UPN mon. primetime sched. is listed in HD.

as for OTA v. Sat. i haven't noticed a major difference. audio dropouts on NBC last nite OTA & sat.


jim


----------



## SteveWinNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RZ_
> *Don't be so happy that DirecTV is now adding more local HD stations(ABC recently). I've noticed that they still compress even those local HD stations as they do every other feed. The OTA reception seems to be better for HD clarity for every local HD station that I can receive. Has anyone else noticed this?*



It can be argued this is exactly what we need to combat Directv against using too much compression. If a customer can receive a better picture OTA, he/she may drop the Directv locals package, or at least threaten to. I haven't noticed too much difference in quality on my 34 inch Sony, but YMMV, especially with larger displays. I think I've noticed it more on the standard def channels previously in years past. Of course, more capacity on Directv is "coming soon" so hopefully the point will be moot soon!


----------



## DVW

Thanks for the info on HD on 9 & 11. I'll have to give these shows a look. As for a better picture OTA vs DirecTV there is no doupt OTA is better. OTA is better than the local cable box also.


----------



## tmtech

I do see a very slight difference between OTA and SAT on my 50" plasma. Once the combiner migration of WPIX is complete I do intend on dropping my locals from D*.


Maybe if this happens with enough people they'll look at the offering vs. OTA and adjust price or quality.


Tom



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveWinNJ_
> *It can be argued this is exactly what we need to combat Directv against using too much compression. If a customer can receive a better picture OTA, he/she may drop the Directv locals package, or at least threaten to. I haven't noticed too much difference in quality on my 34 inch Sony, but YMMV, especially with larger displays. I think I've noticed it more on the standard def channels previously in years past. Of course, more capacity on Directv is "coming soon" so hopefully the point will be moot soon!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *Maybe if this happens with enough people they'll look at the offering vs. OTA and adjust price or quality.
> 
> 
> Tom*



This really won't become an issue for D* until they get more local markets on-line. Right now the only people seeing this poor PQ are lucky ones like us in O&O markets (and the few lucky ones with waivers). If they spend millions (or even billions) putting up birds for local HD and nobody wants them due to PQ then they will do something.


----------



## GRN

quote:Originally posted by Ken Ross

I've noticed the last couple of days that my WNBC-HD signal is very weak. Anyone else having this issue?


Rock solid in the Stead of Hemp. One of my strongest signals since they started doing combiner work. And prior to that, I couldn't even get a whiff of the signal.


----------



## gresch

Is there anyone in the Port Washington/Manhasset area getting locals in HD ota?


----------



## cissado

I don't know what's happening but in the past couple of days I now get channel 4 WNBC NY. I've never received that channel before. It used to be 65%-75% it jumped around a bit but never locked in. All of a sudden I can see it.


I'm glad I put off adjusting my attic antenna. I get all the other local channels already.


Also, call me crazy, but I think the PQ on all the locals got worse lately. Unless I'm just getting used to the HD image and starting to get finicky. lol It's all good.


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if anyone is using the newest RCA D* HD STB for their OTA locals. I recently received a new RCA STB from D* to replace one of my issues laden Hughes E86's.


I'm unable to punch in "9-1" to get WWOR-DT....rather I have to tune in 38-1 in and then obviously get no re-mapping/no programming information....but I do get a picture/audio.


11-1 on a scan gives me TWO 11-1's....so I'm not sure if it's picking up a signal on digital 12 as well as digital 33 ??!?


Strange....anyone?


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *You certainly could do better with a higher performance antenna; there's no need for VHF now that WPIX is using channel 33 for their digital broadcasts, though even channel 12 can be received decently by many UHF antennas.*



I still need OTA/VHF for other TV's in the house that are not on D* or HD capable. I have a splitter in the basement for the antenna and the feed to HR10 is where the Channel Master is connected. I cannot remember which one I got.


I have been tempted to get a dedicated UHF antenna but running a dedicated coax feed to the HR10 would be a large project. My other concern will be if D* starts over compressing the HD locals. Then an OTA would be of greater interest. I just wish I knew if the effort would pay off. I could see myself going through the whole upgrade and not improving the signal reception.


At this point since D* is only missing HD UPN & WB I will wait until the combiner is done and see what I get. The only shows I am missing on those channels is Star Trek and Smallville. Seeing Topal in HD has got to be some treat though!!!


----------



## LINDELLTOM

HI GRN, rock solid in Long Beach, very good signal.


----------



## hphase

WABC is showing the SD version of ESPN's Sunday Night Football. Talk about taking the easy way out...


I know, meaningless game, holiday crew, yadda yadda yadda. Just kind of lame.


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cissado_
> *
> 
> Also, call me crazy, but I think the PQ on all the locals got worse lately. Unless I'm just getting used to the HD image and starting to get finicky. lol It's all good.*



I agree about the PQ...it has been better.

Last year I got NBC for about a week when it was really cold out...the PQ was superb...better than today, but of course the weather substation wasn't up then.


Cold case on CBS looked a lttle grainy tonight.


I had some interesting HD events last night. DirecTV's HD Spice Channel came up FREE from midnight till 230am and ABC OTC did some kind of test. ABC broke away from a news program sometimes after midnight with the sudden video of a Space Shuttle flight taking off. I was awesome PQ, but suddenly ended with a pair of hands holding a small chalk-broad reading "ABC Eng test"...and the person kept snapping the black and while edged bordered up and down like 10 times.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *WABC is showing the SD version of ESPN's Sunday Night Football. Talk about taking the easy way out...
> 
> 
> I know, meaningless game, holiday crew, yadda yadda yadda. Just kind of lame.*



They always DO show the SD version of the ESPN Sunday night presentation. I don't EVER recall an HD feed being carried either in Philly or NYC on Sunday night when the "locals" are playing.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *I had some interesting HD events last night. DirecTV's HD Spice Channel came up FREE from midnight till 230am and ABC OTC did some kind of test.
> *



Wow! I guess you got a late XMAS gift eh?











> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *ABC broke away from a news program sometimes after midnight with the sudden video of a Space Shuttle flight taking off. I was awesome PQ, but suddenly ended with a pair of hands holding a small chalk-broad reading "ABC Eng test"...and the person kept snapping the black and while edged bordered up and down like 10 times.*



This is the ABC HD demo video. If they'd stayed with it longer you'd have seen a Monsters Inc segment as well as some Good Morning America promos and a few flybys of NYC...and even the WTC was shown the few times I caught the demo a few months ago.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Just curious if anyone is using the newest RCA D* HD STB for their OTA locals. I recently received a new RCA STB from D* to replace one of my issues laden Hughes E86's.
> 
> 
> I'm unable to punch in "9-1" to get WWOR-DT....rather I have to tune in 38-1 in and then obviously get no re-mapping/no programming information....but I do get a picture/audio.
> 
> 
> 11-1 on a scan gives me TWO 11-1's....so I'm not sure if it's picking up a signal on digital 12 as well as digital 33 ??!?
> 
> 
> Strange....anyone?*



same thing on my Samsung 160. UPN is mapped as 38-1. no guide info--not even call letters. still testing & tweaking i guess.

i also get 2 11-1's & yes i believe one is ch 12 and the other ch 33. i can tell which is which tho because ch 12 lists as 11-1 WPIXDT while 33 is 11-1 WPIX-DT. good news is prog. info is listed in the guide.

BTW is the combiner being shut down late at night for maintenance? all chs. were dark at 1 AM last nite.



jim


----------



## nblando




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *WABC is showing the SD version of ESPN's Sunday Night Football. Talk about taking the easy way out...
> 
> 
> I know, meaningless game, holiday crew, yadda yadda yadda. Just kind of lame.*



I just got my system set up and was looking forward to seeing the game in HD. I ended up playing with the antenna and checking all the HW before I figured out that they went SD...


----------



## cpto

Does anyone know what's going on with 9-1? For the last couple of nights I've had to tune to 38-1 to get the channel. Has anyone else had this problem? When I looked at the manual digital station add option tonight, 38 was shown as 38-1. Thx.


C


----------



## TVjazzman

So, need a little advice, have previously posted that I had no luck 32 miles due north of New York city (Rockland County) with receiving any DT signals other than CBS (2-1 on occasion) and PAX (31-1).


I have all the right equipment, right placement, right amps and have had folks like Peter Putman advise on why I could not receive (Toshiba RPTV tuner, terrestial concerns etc.) .


Since the combiner, and, since it is now winter and leaves are down, I get almost everything I ever wanted (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, WB11, UPN9 etc.) .


Has the combiner changed all this, or is this a winter xmas gift and I'll lose all this come Spring?


I have no real blockage that I could ascertain, all I could assume was that where my UHF 8 box antenna lived was just not the right place.


Mid winter did not seem like the time to climb on my roof and search for better placement.


Combiner or Winter


TVJAZZMAN


----------



## SnellKrell

First, don't spend energy asking why, just sit back and enjoy the improvement of your reception!


Although there are so many variables concerning reception, more than likely it's the combiner that is helping to make life better for you.


Realize that the stations that are now transmitting are still in a testing phase and are not putting out full power.


You also have some things to look forward to - the additions of WABC and WNET eminating from the Empire State Building combiner.


Happy New Year and enjoy your newfound channels.


Gary


----------



## jgrahamiii

I have a dedicated UHF Radio Shack antenna in my attic. I'm about 21 miles from the ESB on Long Island. Until CBS went on the combiner, I had no problems receiving them. Now, I can't lock on to them at all, ever. I get a signal strength of between 55 and 70 on NBC, FOX, ABC, WOR (as 38-3/4), PIX and PXN (and 68), with a SNR of about 20-25. I added a RS inline amplifier into the mix and my signal strencth *dropped* about 10 +/- on each station and SNR did not change much. Still could not get CBS. I also occassionally lose either WOR or PIX when switching to them, and have to rescan to get them back.


I'm not certain if the problem is my Dell HDTV receiver, or if it is something in the signal of CBS. Given the drop in signal with the amplifier, could I actually need a signal attenuator? Perhaps some sort of noise filter?


Thanks


----------



## slocko

Battlestar Glactica in HD. Great way for those of you that now can get NBC to start off the new year:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...42#post4908842 


I'm bummed that I can't get 9 and 11 at the same time without moving my megawave indoor antenna










I guess time to try the Silver Sensor again.


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *quote:Originally posted by Ken Ross
> 
> I've noticed the last couple of days that my WNBC-HD signal is very weak. Anyone else having this issue?
> 
> 
> Rock solid in the Stead of Hemp. One of my strongest signals since they started doing combiner work. And prior to that, I couldn't even get a whiff of the signal.*



That's really weird. I've always gotten WNBC with no problems until several days ago. Now it's very weak despite fine tuning the antenna alignment. I have no idea what's going on, but it obviously has something to do with the combiner work. I'm a little further east in Nassau.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *Does anyone know what's going on with 9-1? For the last couple of nights I've had to tune to 38-1 to get the channel. Has anyone else had this problem? When I looked at the manual digital station add option tonight, 38 was shown as 38-1. Thx.
> 
> 
> C*



there have been about a half dozen posts on this very subject. it seems everyone has this issue with WWOR no matter what tuner or receiver they have so i'm guessing WWOR is not sending the correct flag to remap the ch. to 9-1. hopefully it will be corrected soon.


jim


----------



## KenA

I sent an email to WWOR about the listing service, but the answer pretty much reflects their current state:


> Quote:
> Thank you for your recent email. We are aware of the problem. The HDTV
> 
> transmission is still very limited and far from complete. The listing
> 
> service will likely improve as transmission increases on the channel.
> 
> We are still awaiting word on when the full HDTV signal will be
> 
> complete. Once again, thank you for notifying us of your concerns.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Viewer Services


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *
> 
> I'm bummed that I can't get 9 and 11 at the same time without moving my megawave indoor antenna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess time to try the Silver Sensor again.*



Say...how is the Megawave antenna? Does it live up to the hype?


I've read about it on their website...does it really work?


What is your opinion on it?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *That's really weird. I've always gotten WNBC with no problems until several days ago. Now it's very weak despite fine tuning the antenna alignment. I have no idea what's going on, but it obviously has something to do with the combiner work. I'm a little further east in Nassau.*



Ken,


My WNBC-DT has gotten stronger since they went on the combiner. I now get it about 90. I used to get it at about 70. I think they are still not at full power, so it should get better.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *I sent an email to WWOR about the listing service, but the answer pretty much reflects their current state:*



I sent the problem with the PSIP to engineering at WWOR, and got this response :


Scott, Thanks for you comments. We are unable to generate PSIP for WWOR

at this time. Shortly we will have the equipment in place to be able to

generate PSIP/EPG, etc. We're sorry for any inconvenience this causes

our Viewers, please be assured that we are making every effort possible

to quickly resolve this situation.


Al Shjarback

VP Engineering and Operations WNYW/WWOR TV


----------



## KenA

Scott, I sent the inquirey about the HD TiVo listings since I use them to record shows. Right now, it just says "Regular Scheduled Programing" as mentioned earlier in the thread. Without the guide data, I can't easily schedule TiVo recordings. Instead, I have to make a manual recording, which is a PITA.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *Scott, I sent the inquirey about the HD TiVo listings since I use them to record shows. Right now, it just says "Regular Scheduled Programing" as mentioned earlier in the thread. Without the guide data, I can't easily schedule TiVo recordings. Instead, I have to make a manual recording, which is a PITA.*



Well, at least he said shortly it should be fixes. Hopefully they will get the PSIP equipment soon.


----------



## slocko

So far, it has been the best indoor antenna I have tried, and the best form factor. Very flat and blends in with the TV.


Before the combiner I was able to receive Fox, ABC, CBS with no problems with it.


Now with the combiner, I can now in addition, pick up NBC, and WPIX and WWOR, but these two, not at the same location. I have to move it closer to the window for WWOR.


I am going to try the Silver Sensor again, to see if with the combiner, maybe it will perform better, but I doubt it.





> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Chu_
> *Say...how is the Megawave antenna? Does it live up to the hype?
> 
> 
> I've read about it on their website...does it really work?
> 
> 
> What is your opinion on it?*


----------



## dcarpa




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Ken,
> 
> 
> My WNBC-DT has gotten stronger since they went on the combiner. I now get it about 90. I used to get it at about 70. I think they are still not at full power, so it should get better.*



So when are they gonna ramp? The last posts were suggesting that it would have happened last week - I need a bit of a boost to get it in.


----------



## tmtech

Ken,


The good news may be that the HD-Tivo doesn't use PSIP. If you look back a few pages you'll see some discussion on that. So even if WWOR can't generate PSIP once they tell DTV to switch to the new configuration we'll get the guide data from them. Hopefully that makes it quicker than having to wait for them to get the equipment in and running for PSIP.


Tom




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenA_
> *Scott, I sent the inquirey about the HD TiVo listings since I use them to record shows. Right now, it just says "Regular Scheduled Programing" as mentioned earlier in the thread. Without the guide data, I can't easily schedule TiVo recordings. Instead, I have to make a manual recording, which is a PITA.*


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *Ken,
> 
> 
> The good news may be that the HD-Tivo doesn't use PSIP. If you look back a few pages you'll see some discussion on that. So even if WWOR can't generate PSIP once they tell DTV to switch to the new configuration we'll get the guide data from them. Hopefully that makes it quicker than having to wait for them to get the equipment in and running for PSIP.
> 
> 
> Tom*



That's great! I still wouldn't mind accurate PSIP, since I've also got a Zenith HDR230.


----------



## KCole




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *That's really weird. I've always gotten WNBC with no problems until several days ago. Now it's very weak despite fine tuning the antenna alignment. I have no idea what's going on, but it obviously has something to do with the combiner work. I'm a little further east in Nassau.*




WNBC-HD is on the combiner as of 12/28 and they are 50% power for a week or so until the transmitter is fully checked out and adjusted.


----------



## KCole




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *I have a dedicated UHF Radio Shack antenna in my attic. I'm about 21 miles from the ESB on Long Island. Until CBS went on the combiner, I had no problems receiving them. Now, I can't lock on to them at all, ever. I get a signal strength of between 55 and 70 on NBC, FOX, ABC, WOR (as 38-3/4), PIX and PXN (and 68), with a SNR of about 20-25. I added a RS inline amplifier into the mix and my signal strencth dropped about 10 +/- on each station and SNR did not change much. Still could not get CBS. I also occassionally lose either WOR or PIX when switching to them, and have to rescan to get them back.
> 
> 
> I'm not certain if the problem is my Dell HDTV receiver, or if it is something in the signal of CBS. Given the drop in signal with the amplifier, could I actually need a signal attenuator? Perhaps some sort of noise filter?
> 
> 
> Thanks*



You could be overloading your STB with the addition of the in-line amp and now 4 more robust DTV signals. When did you add the amp? Was it always in? Try taking the amp out. Try putting in a 3 dB, 6dB attenuator.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KCole_
> *You could be overloading your STB with the addition of the in-line amp and now 4 more robust DTV signals. When did you add the amp? Was it always in? Try taking the amp out. Try putting in a 3 dB, 6dB attenuator.*



I only added the amp after I lost CBS (around when PIX came on line or so. I will try the attenuator. Thanks!


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Ken,
> 
> 
> My WNBC-DT has gotten stronger since they went on the combiner. I now get it about 90. I used to get it at about 70. I think they are still not at full power, so it should get better.*



Scott, that's why I can't figure out why mine has gotten weaker. We're not that far apart.


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KCole_
> *WNBC-HD is on the combiner as of 12/28 and they are 50% power for a week or so until the transmitter is fully checked out and adjusted.*



Ah! Now that makes sense. I'll bet that date is exactly the point that my signal went south. The 50% power explains why my reception has deteriorated. Thanks. I look forward to the ramp up in power.


----------



## George Thompson

Ken, that is 50% of ESB site full power. It never was 100% at EBS yet. They were only running 1KW or 10K ERP at GE building. That doesn't explain your reception deterioration except if you are close in. (Added height and signal pattern/dispersion.)


----------



## jgrahamiii

I should have asked before. Where in the line do you put an attenuator -- At the antenna end or at the TV end? Thanks


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *I should have asked before. Where in the line do you put an attenuator -- At the antenna end or at the TV end? Thanks*



Right at the antenna input of the receiver.


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Ken, that is 50% of ESB site full power. It never was 100% at EBS yet. They were only running 1KW or 10K ERP at GE building. That doesn't explain your reception deterioration except if you are close in. (Added height and signal pattern/dispersion.)*



No George, I'm in Plainview, so close proximity isn't the issue. I'm not sure what is then. Everything else is coming in fine.


----------



## Steve L

Anyone have an update on when WNET 13 (UHF 61) will be live on the combiner? I originally heard sometime this month, but haven't heard anything since. /steve


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *No George, I'm in Plainview, so close proximity isn't the issue. I'm not sure what is then. Everything else is coming in fine.*



I know you must have mentioned what antenna you are using but can you say again and say if you repositioned it since the move to ESB?


----------



## mikeny

The same thing is going one with me. I have an old boom, VHF/UHF chimney mounted antenna. (Lynbrook)


I'm surprised at this point that 38.3 is coming in from the ESB but not 4.1. I'm also only tuning in 11.1 from Channel 12, not 33. 33 has a very slight reading on the signal meter (20-30).


Channel

2.1 85

4.1, 4.2: 30-50

5.1/5.2 75-80

7.1/7.2 90+

38.3/38.4 70

11.1/11.2 65-70 (from channel 12)

13.1 no signal

21.X/X/X good signal, don't remember

25.1 no signal

30.1 no signal

50.1 no signal

58.x/x/x 45-60 estimate, breaks up frequently


----------



## Brainodo

Longtime reader, first time poster.


Last night I tried a Silver Sensor in my ground-floor apt. in Hoboken and was pleasantly surprised to get reception from several stations, thanks for the recommendations everyone.

Anyway, my signal seems to be slightly different from what I'm reading from others (I've just skimmed, so I may have missed some).


I get 4.1 and 4.2 as the best signal with no movement of the antenna and the others with a little bit of movement and the odd dropout. 2.1 is probably the worst, that and 7.1 seem to fluctuate the most.


What I'm interested in knowing is, will this get better when the combiner is 'up to speed' or is it more likely that it's surrounding buildings and an LOS issue and I just have to deal with it? Just wondering as I'm amazed I got anything at all and got 4.1 so well.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken Ross_
> *No George, I'm in Plainview, so close proximity isn't the issue. I'm not sure what is then. Everything else is coming in fine.*



Don't necessarilyl count on that. I have an antenna in my attic, and I live in Nassau County also. I found that putting an amplifier in made my signal strength weaker, and SNR higher. I took it out, and then as an experiment before buying an attenuator, I split the line, and my signal strength improved over not splitting the line, and the SNR decreased. I still don't get CBS, which is the only one at full power, so I'm guessing that it is just overpowering my receiver. I'm going to get that attenuator soon and see if that helps even more.


----------



## SnellKrell

Brainodo -


Congratulations to a fellow Silver Sensor owner - this little antenna is a amazing for what it can do!


Reception quality will be changing when WNBC-DT, WPIX-DT are at full power; when WABC-DT starts transmitting from the Empire State Building;

WNYW-DT gets FCC approval to increase its power. Not sure about WCBS-DT if its putting out full power while there's work being done on the combiner - a lot of people have seen its signal deteriorate since the combiner work began.


Nothing will change concerning WWOR-TV - it's operating at full power. The only change will be its ability to have your tuner consider it as channel 9.1 - the needed equipment is on the way.


We are also waiting for the transmitter equipment to be installed on the ESB for WNET-DT.


Enjoy taking your Silver Sensor for "walks" around your apartment!


Gary


----------



## Brainodo

Gary,


Thanks for the information. I was stunned with how well the signal from NBC came in, not to mention how much the Silver Sensor picked up.


Any theories on how my reception will change once the combiner's fully operational? I was amazed how little movement affected the different signals.


----------



## trumpace

I'm in Chelsea at 22nd & 9th with line-of-sight to the ESB.


I pick up 2, 5, 7, 9, 11 and all 13 sub chanels digitally, but all I can get from 4 is analog.


Is NBC really transmitting digitally from the combiner?


----------



## slocko

Is there anyway to combine two indoor antenna signals into one line to feed the hd-receiver? Would using a splitter in reverse work?


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Is there anyway to combine two indoor antenna signals into one line to feed the hd-receiver? Would using a splitter in reverse work?*



it isnt very easy. Apparently you get multipath or you wind up sending some of the signal from antenna A back out antenna B.


I figured I would try since some others have had random positive results but I tried to combine a silversensor with a 4228 and it just made a mess.


if there is just one channel on one antenna and all the rest on the other you can use a 'jointenna' which basically filters out on channel from one antenna and then inserts just that channel from the other antenna.


But even those have issues- they dont always cleanly filter out- so if you have channles close by on the 2 different antennas it winds up screwing up one. Also they seem to be made more for VHF as the UHF's are special order but most Digital TV seems to be UHF.


other possibility is if all uhf on one antenna and all vhf on another then some of the amps can combine those 2 well.


----------



## bcmmix

Hey there,

I'm considering buying an HDTV in the near future. I don't have cable, and I'm interested in trying the OTA HD signals. My main problem is I live at the Bottom of Bennett Ave in Manhattan (192 st). It's in the valley, down the hill from 175st (i.e no straight shot at the ESB). Has anyone had success in that neighborhood with the Regular HD antenne?

Thanks

Bill


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trumpace_
> *I'm in Chelsea at 22nd & 9th with line-of-sight to the ESB.
> 
> 
> I pick up 2, 5, 7, 9, 11 and all 13 sub chanels digitally, but all I can get from 4 is analog.
> 
> 
> Is NBC really transmitting digitally from the combiner?*



Yes. I live in the Stead of Hemp, Nassau County, and ever since NBC-DT went on the combiner I have been getting a strong signal 24-7. Prior to that I got _nothing_ .....


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *I live in the Stead of Hemp, Nassau County..*



Of course in my younger years we called it Hempseed whatever that meant.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Is there anyway to combine two indoor antenna signals into one line to feed the hd-receiver? Would using a splitter in reverse work?*



If you still want to try this one way to _minimize_ the multi-path is to make sure the two cable lengths are _exactly_ the same.


----------



## the-sloth

I receive WABC-DT via DNS on D* and notice the audio levels are a quite a bit below other channels. Is this normal? Do you guys get the same results OTA?


----------



## cmeinck

I noticed the low levels yesterday when switching between CBS and ABC. I'm just happy that I don't have to rely on my crappy antenna to get HD from the big 3. D* has outdone themselves. Next, I want a HD DVR that won't break the bank and more HD in the MLB package. Are people getting 11-1 lately? I'm on the border of Nassau and Suffolk and have never received it.


----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Is there anyway to combine two indoor antenna signals into one line to feed the hd-receiver? Would using a splitter in reverse work?*



There are some threads on AVS forum that discuss "stacking" antennas to improve reception. I'm no expert but there are several basic rules that have been mentioned:


1. Antennas can be stacked horizontally (most common) or vertically. Reception distance will be improved but the angle of orientation for best reception becomes smaller. You can have a stacked array of 4 antennas.


2. The antennas must be identical.


3. The cable length must be exactly the same length.


4. The distance between the antennas is a fixed distance and is based on the physical characteristics of the antenna.


5. You will most probably need a rotator and possibly a tilter to get the best reception possible.


Most of the threads discussing stacking antennas are for people at great distances from the transmitters, usually in western US (~ 60 miles). I think one thread was about people in the Mount Wilson area.


If you want to see example of stacked antennas , rotators and tilters go to this URL: http://www.atechfabrication.com/ 


In most cases this is overkill.


----------



## HoundBaby

Has WPIX 11 stopped broadcasting during the day? . My antenna is covered with ice and still getting a good signal from all stations on the ESB and combiner


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HoundBaby_
> *Has WPIX 11 stopped broadcasting during the day? . My antenna is covered with ice and still getting a good signal from all stations on the ESB and combiner*



They only broadcast on Channel 33 from 5:00PM to 12:00AM.


----------



## Infominister

Even then, I don't get enough of a signal to even register Channel 33. As for Channel 38, I've only gotten it a couple/few times, mapped differently each time and with too weak of a signal to watch without breakups. The rest of the time, it just disappears from my channel guide.


What's going on?


----------



## BillNBC

I'm experiencing same problem as Ken Ross. Both WNBC-DT and WYNY-DT are being received at a considerly lower level than WCBS, WOR, and WPIX, all on same ESB combiner. My experience when WNBC was on GE building, was very good signal with no dropouts. My location is Massapequa NY, south shore LI, about 35 miles from ESB.


----------



## Infominister

WNBC-DT is at half-power until at least next week, but I was under the impression that WNYW was still at its separate location at the ESB.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNYW is not a part of the combiner project.


It has its own antenna at the ESB, and is currently awaiting the FCC's

approval to increase its ERP.


Gary


----------



## mw390

I was able to pull in (but only for an instant) WPIX on channel 12 and 33. WWOR 38 is out


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by the-sloth_
> *I receive WABC-DT via DNS on D* and notice the audio levels are a quite a bit below other channels. Is this normal? Do you guys get the same results OTA?*



Noticed the same. Usually, I watch ABC on -40db. I had it on -30db last night.


----------



## Signalseeker

Did WPIX drop their power for more testing? I can not get as strong a signal as I did a week ago 70% vs.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by the-sloth_
> *I receive WABC-DT via DNS on D* and notice the audio levels are a quite a bit below other channels. Is this normal? Do you guys get the same results OTA?*



I've routinely had volume problems with both NBC and ABC when watching HD stuff. Commercials are usually higher in volume. Changing from NBC to CBS is a real eye-opener!!! I get these channels both via OTA and D*. No real difference in levels between the two.


----------



## trumpace

I was away last week and may have missed something, but is WNBC-DT now transmitting from the

ESB?

I'm less than a mile from ESB with line-of-sight but all I'm able to pick up is WNBC analog.


Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Victor C

Hi guys,


I have switched to TWC digital cable since 9/11. I chose TWC for its local HD channels. Since then, they have raised their price so much that I want to switch back to D* again. Especially after hearing that D* is now offering national feed of HD signals for CBS, NBC, FOX and ABC. Would a guy living in Queens be able to get those without going through hoops for waivers? Otherwise, what can I expect to get for local HD channels now with say a good indoor antenna?


Victor


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Victor C_
> *Hi guys,
> 
> 
> I have switched to TWC digital cable since 9/11. I chose TWC for its local HD channels. Since then, they have raised their price so much that I want to switch back to D* again. Especially after hearing that D* is now offering national feed of HD signals for CBS, NBC, FOX and ABC. Would a guy living in Queens be able to get those without going through hoops for waivers? Otherwise, what can I expect to get for local HD channels now with say a good indoor antenna?
> 
> 
> Victor*



Victor, you should be able to receive the HD feeds from D* without waivers in Owned & Operated markets (O&O). New York is one, so you should be able to get all the channels without a waiver.


Conversely, once the combiner is up and running at full power, you should be able to receive CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, WPIX, UPN and WNET over-the-air and may not even have to pay D* for your locals. Right now they are in testing mode, but I can tell you thah in Nassau County I am picking up CBS, NBC, ABC (intermittently), FOX, UPN, WPIX, WNJN, and WFUT with a rooftop antenna.


----------



## Victor C

Thank you GRN

Bye Bye TWC


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Victor C_
> *Thank you GRN
> 
> Bye Bye TWC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



No problem. BTW they have a listing of the local channels that D* offers and the eligibility criteria here:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagin...alchannels.dsp


----------



## mw390

Could one of you old timers help me out here? I was wondering if it violates the prime directive of this forum if I were to post something for sale to negotiate with anyone who wanted to privately buy something I have for sale (HDTV related). Thanx


----------



## mw390

As of 18:00 today I am getting the same signal strength (I get bars like on the Cingular commercial) on channels 4, 9, and 11.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *No problem. BTW they have a listing of the local channels that D* offers and the eligibility criteria here:
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagin...alchannels.dsp *



hi Victor G


just a few words to add to GRN's good info. as of 2 days ago D* still wasn't listing ABC in the HD locals--not to worry, its there on ch 86. and you can get it. sub to the local ch pkg OR the HD pkg. i doubt very much any station in Ct. can claim your area for a Grade B signal.

as for the combiner it seems all stations are still testing. WNET is still not on the combiner & no word on when they will be. i would suggest looking for a Silver Sensor indoor antenna on Amazon-mine works like a charm when the signal's there. good luck & enjoy!


jim


----------



## Infominister

My WCBS-DT signal dropped way down to the 20s tonight and I lost the signal. Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## dturturro

I recorded yesterdays rerun of Smallville on channel 33 and with it was in DD5.1 and looked real good it was in a 4:3 window. WTF?


----------



## Maggot

I am distressed that WNET is mum on the status or their WNET-DT. They are, after all, supported largely by public (individuals like me) donors, and I feel miffed that they are really *ignoring* us.


Their site has a darn mouthful of prevaricating nonsense platitudes saying (in a HDTV primer sidebox) how HDTV is usually available OTA or by CATV or satellite (don't get me started on That-being as I'm a C-bander! wondering why PBS had to use a different HD encryption than every other network and so rendering the usual rig worthless....... oops there I go,sorry) and blah blah and BTW, folks all you need is a paid subscription to one of these here CATV firms. Don't even come straight out to say "We have no WNET-HD OTA at present" they just leave it tacit and confused, no response to my "Feedback" polite query neither.


The least they could do by way of a polite (& I don't even suggest an apologetic tone, mind you) place online where a matter of fact status report might be provided us, updated biweekly or so. I hope them buggers spend lots of time sweating in the un-AC'd cabin of a jet on tarmac of JFK so they can indignantly mutter to their sweaty wives: "Gees, Honey, why can't the captain just let us know what's up, instead of leaving us stupid helpless and anxious back here? I just *hate* when the in-charge guys are so inconsiderate!"


I wish!

-Maggs


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I recorded yesterdays rerun of Smallville on channel 33 and with it was in DD5.1 and looked real good it was in a 4:3 window. WTF?*



I have seen CBS do this also; reruns of HD shows NOT aired in HD. I don't think that episode of SV was in SD but that would also explain it.


Andy


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *My WCBS-DT signal dropped way down to the 20s tonight and I lost the signal. Has this happened to anyone else?*



I seemed to have lost WCBS-DT also. It used to be the strongest channel.


----------



## lirong

Sorry to go a little but off-topic here, but I couldnt think of a better way to reach the right audience.


I live in White Plains, NY and I am trying to upgrade my home theater setup a bit. I have a Toshiba HDTV and recently got setup for OTA HD as well - seems to be coming in well although I havent yet tested the channels since the combiner went up.


As part of this I am trying to figure out an upgrade for the audio portion of my setup - specifically speakers. I was wondering if anyone lived in the area, and would be willing to check out my setup and give me some feedback on advice on directions?


Thanks and sorry to intrude on the OTA discussion...


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mikeny_
> *I seemed to have lost WCBS-DT also. It used to be the strongest channel.*



Yeah, I had NO CBS last night from NYC. It used to be the highest power signal I could receive and was solid.


Now I'm lucky if I can get it at all. I was able to get 4-1,4-2 and 5-1,5-2 no problem.


I was able to receive CBS from Philly 3-1.


Ah well. Hopefully this is temporary.


----------



## Infominister

It was back to usual strength at 7:30 a.m. Since I lost satellite reception for a few hours last evening, apparently because of ice on the dish, I thought there might be some bigger problem.


----------



## rlindabury

I don't know what's going on with WNET PBS. What I do know is that NJN broadcasts HD every night starting at 8pm on the x-5 channel (barring any problems).


I don't know where Goldens Bridge is in NY but if you're near NJ, you might be able to receive the signal. Maybe from the Montclair tower?


All this week we're running a Soundstage presentation of Steve Winwood in concert in full AC3 (DD5.1) surround at 10pm. It'll run through Sunday.


We run five channels of DT every day. x-1 through x-4 from midnight to 8pm. At 8pm we cut off x-2 and x-3 and kick in x-5 which is the HD. At midnight we cut off the HD and put back on the other two SD channels.


This is done because there's not enough bandwidth to run four SD channels and the HD channel all at the same time.


Let me know if you can pick it up. Good Luck!



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maggot_
> *I am distressed that WNET is mum on the status or their WNET-DT. They are, after all, supported largely by public (individuals like me) donors, and I feel miffed that they are really *ignoring* us.
> 
> 
> Their site has a darn mouthful of prevaricating nonsense platitudes saying (in a HDTV primer sidebox) how HDTV is usually available OTA or by CATV or satellite (don't get me started on That-being as I'm a C-bander! wondering why PBS had to use a different HD encryption than every other network and so rendering the usual rig worthless....... oops there I go,sorry) and blah blah and BTW, folks all you need is a paid subscription to one of these here CATV firms. Don't even come straight out to say "We have no WNET-HD OTA at present" they just leave it tacit and confused, no response to my "Feedback" polite query neither.
> 
> 
> The least they could do by way of a polite (& I don't even suggest an apologetic tone, mind you) place online where a matter of fact status report might be provided us, updated biweekly or so. I hope them buggers spend lots of time sweating in the un-AC'd cabin of a jet on tarmac of JFK so they can indignantly mutter to their sweaty wives: "Gees, Honey, why can't the captain just let us know what's up, instead of leaving us stupid helpless and anxious back here? I just *hate* when the in-charge guys are so inconsiderate!"
> 
> 
> I wish!
> 
> -Maggs*


----------



## cpufixer1

I was watching the O.C. in HD on Fox and it is not as clear as watching a football game on Fox. Must me shot in a different Res.


----------



## Calabs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpufixer1_
> *I was watching the O.C. in HD on Fox and it is not as clear as watching a football game on Fox. Must me shot in a different Res.*



The OC is most likely converted into HD from film, where a live football game is broadcast using true HD cameras. BIG difference!


----------



## dan57

For what it's worth, I had no trouble picking up CBS-DT OTA last night for CSA and Without A Trace in East Brunswick.


----------



## bgut1




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *I don't know what's going on with WNET PBS. What I do know is that NJN broadcasts HD every night starting at 8pm on the x-5 channel (barring any problems).
> 
> 
> I don't know where Goldens Bridge is in NY but if you're near NJ, you might be able to receive the signal. Maybe from the Montclair tower?
> 
> 
> All this week we're running a Soundstage presentation of Steve Winwood in concert in full AC3 (DD5.1) surround at 10pm. It'll run through Sunday.
> 
> 
> We run five channels of DT every day. x-1 through x-4 from midnight to 8pm. At 8pm we cut off x-2 and x-3 and kick in x-5 which is the HD. At midnight we cut off the HD and put back on the other two SD channels.
> 
> 
> This is done because there's not enough bandwidth to run four SD channels and the HD channel all at the same time.
> 
> 
> Let me know if you can pick it up. Good Luck!*



Bob - Thanks for the info on NJN. It's great that we have someone in the know available to answer our questions. That being said (and please don't take this the wrong way) I know very few people that can pick up NJN in central and southern new jersey. I live in monmouth county and I get no signal what so ever. When WLIW was putting out a signal from Long Island I was able to pick that up most nights. Every since they pulled the digital signal back in April (I believe) many people in NJ & NY have been out of luck. I have attempted to communicate with station management to inquire why WLIW was pulled (I believe due to $) and when we could expect a better signal - all to no avail. Due to all this "excellent" communication, you can imagine what I will say during the next PBS fund drive.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bgut1_
> *I know very few people that can pick up NJN in central and southern new jersey. .*




I get 52-5 loud and clear in East Brunsick.


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *I don't know what's going on with WNET PBS. What I do know is that NJN broadcasts HD every night starting at 8pm on the x-5 channel (barring any problems).
> 
> 
> I don't know where Goldens Bridge is in NY but if you're near NJ, you might be able to receive the signal. Maybe from the Montclair tower?
> 
> 
> All this week we're running a Soundstage presentation of Steve Winwood in concert in full AC3 (DD5.1) surround at 10pm. It'll run through Sunday.
> 
> 
> We run five channels of DT every day. x-1 through x-4 from midnight to 8pm. At 8pm we cut off x-2 and x-3 and kick in x-5 which is the HD. At midnight we cut off the HD and put back on the other two SD channels.
> 
> 
> This is done because there's not enough bandwidth to run four SD channels and the HD channel all at the same time.
> 
> 
> Let me know if you can pick it up. Good Luck!*



58.--NJN comes in for me but it's breaks up many times for brief moments..


I caught one HD show on 58.5 about the History of Theater about a month ago. It was very interesting and I'm generally not a theater fan. That was my first PBS HD experience.


Thanks for scheduling info. I always wondered when I should be looking for 58.5.


----------



## Swisher

Wow, for the first time I got a "Server is too Busy" message on the AVS Forum. Just another sign that the public is getting more heavily into the latest technologies out there - like HD and digital TV, etc. Here we have all this money invested in good equipment for quality video (programming is another issue) but we can't get it! I'm EXTREMELY frustrated and need to vent. Indulge me. Who has dropped the ball? The FCC? The stations? It can't be us. Walk into any Electronics store and see the interest in the latest display devices. Is it 9/11 that screwed us in New York? Should it have taken three and a half years (and counting) to get back up and running (not that we were before 9/11). Where should I direct my rage where it can do some good?


On a different note of rage, what's the point of HD if the stations are going to use sub channels for revenue, making HD channels look like SD in wide screen? So far, WCBS is the only hold out in that regard, and their picture "clearly" shows it. Anything I watch in HD on WNBC or WABC is unimpressive, but it looks like that will be SOP for most NY stations. Am I wrong about that? Wasn't the idea to use sub channels off prime time, and broadcast the prime time shows in HD without subs?


We consumers have been (and are increasingly) embracing the new technology. What are those in charge doing?


end vent....thanks for your indulgance.


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by lirong_
> *
> 
> As part of this I am trying to figure out an upgrade for the audio portion of my setup - specifically speakers. I was wondering if anyone lived in the area, and would be willing to check out my setup and give me some feedback on advice on directions?
> *



Although I have been spending some time at Vintage lately, I expect you would get some good advice from Harvey in WP.

George


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bgut1_
> *Bob - Thanks for the info on NJN. It's great that we have someone in the know available to answer our questions. That being said (and please don't take this the wrong way) I know very few people that can pick up NJN in central and southern new jersey. I live in monmouth county and I get no signal what so ever. When WLIW was putting out a signal from Long Island I was able to pick that up most nights. Every since they pulled the digital signal back in April (I believe) many people in NJ & NY have been out of luck. I have attempted to communicate with station management to inquire why WLIW was pulled (I believe due to $) and when we could expect a better signal - all to no avail. Due to all this "excellent" communication, you can imagine what I will say during the next PBS fund drive.*



Hmm.. the reception problems seem very odd to me seeing as how we have four towers broadcasting in NJ covering the entire state as well as into PA and NY.


I'm in Piscataway and I can pick up the East Brunswick and Trenton towers without a preamp using a rotor and a radio shack attic antenna.


Obviously trees, buildings and mountains in the line of sight are going to cause problems with reception but people in central NJ shouldn't have a problem. Those down in Cape May will have a problem.


Maybe the people you've talked to aren't aiming at the right tower? Also, Digital 8 (58) is VHF and not UHF so if you have a UHF only antenna, you won't pick it up in most cases.


Below are some links with information on the towers NJN broadcasts from and the channels we run. Programming is the same on ALL our channels as it all originates in Trenton and is distributed to all towers.


Here's a couple links for you guys interested in the NJN digital broadcasts.


Here's a link to the Digital page:

http://www.njn.net/digital 


This tells you the channels and the times they air and has links to the various programming schedules for each channel.


The following link tells you the channels we are on:

http://www.njn.net/television/channels/ 


Hopefully this information will clear up some of the confusion with what channels we broadcast on and the HD programming schedule.


----------



## bgut1

My bad. I have a UHF only antenna (as I found the combo to degrade the UHF portion of the antenna) that is currently pointed to the ESB. Sorry about the rant. Even when pointed to NYC I was still able to pick up WLIW. Any idea if and when New Brunswick will switch to UHF?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bgut1_
> *My bad. I have a UHF only antenna (as I found the combo to degrade the UHF portion of the antenna) that is currently pointed to the ESB. Sorry about the rant. Even when pointed to NYC I was still able to pick up WLIW. Any idea if and when New Brunswick will switch to UHF?*



You *may* be able to pick it up with a UHF only antenna.....*if* you aren't using a UHF only pre-amp. I'm using a CM4228 (UHF only antenna) with a Winegard VHF/UHF combo pre-amp....and can pick up Digital 8....as well as all analog 2-13 stations. Obviously 2 is snowy and skittish, but 11 and 13 are pretty solid looking for analog channels on a UHF only antenna.


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bgut1_
> *My bad. I have a UHF only antenna (as I found the combo to degrade the UHF portion of the antenna) that is currently pointed to the ESB. Sorry about the rant. Even when pointed to NYC I was still able to pick up WLIW. Any idea if and when New Brunswick will switch to UHF?*



No problem. If there's problems with reception, I'm sure NJN wants to know about it. As far as I know, there's no plans on moving 8 to UHF. But then I'm not a NJN employee, I'm a contractor and I don't know all the goings on.


I'll ask the engineer though. I do know that we're going to be upping the power on two towers in the spring and some equipment is being replaced with new equipment.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maggot_
> *I am distressed that WNET is mum on the status or their WNET-DT. They are, after all, supported largely by public (individuals like me) donors, and I feel miffed that they are really *ignoring* us.
> 
> 
> Their site has a darn mouthful of prevaricating nonsense platitudes saying (in a HDTV primer sidebox) how HDTV is usually available OTA or by CATV or satellite (don't get me started on That-being as I'm a C-bander! wondering why PBS had to use a different HD encryption than every other network and so rendering the usual rig worthless....... oops there I go,sorry) and blah blah and BTW, folks all you need is a paid subscription to one of these here CATV firms. Don't even come straight out to say "We have no WNET-HD OTA at present" they just leave it tacit and confused, no response to my "Feedback" polite query neither.
> 
> 
> The least they could do by way of a polite (& I don't even suggest an apologetic tone, mind you) place online where a matter of fact status report might be provided us, updated biweekly or so. I hope them buggers spend lots of time sweating in the un-AC'd cabin of a jet on tarmac of JFK so they can indignantly mutter to their sweaty wives: "Gees, Honey, why can't the captain just let us know what's up, instead of leaving us stupid helpless and anxious back here? I just *hate* when the in-charge guys are so inconsiderate!"
> 
> 
> I wish!
> 
> -Maggs*



Well, if that's about the way you phrased your question to them, no wonder they didn't reply. Prevaricators? Oh my!


The truth is that Ch13 is OTA, but only so they can meet their responsibility to cover their city of license. Newark. True, they are largely unreceivable other than on the west side of Manhattan, but that's just until they can get up and running on the Empire State Building. That should happen soon, but there hasn't been any official word on when that will be. Why should they? It'll only give some people more to complain about. In the meantime, Ch13 is available on many cable system in the area, but you probably already knew that.


----------



## bgut1




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *You *may* be able to pick it up with a UHF only antenna.....*if* you aren't using a UHF only pre-amp. I'm using a CM4228 (UHF only antenna) with a Winegard VHF/UHF combo pre-amp....and can pick up Digital 8....as well as all analog 2-13 stations. Obviously 2 is snowy and skittish, but 11 and 13 are pretty solid looking for analog channels on a UHF only antenna.*



I have a winegard HD9095P Antenna and AP-4700 Preamp (UHF Only). No dice for me. I guess I will wait until WNET goes live on the combiner since I didn't want to install a rotor in the attic anyway. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## trekkerj

Enterprise looks AWESOME in HD.


----------



## mw390

I agree. Enterprise looked very good. The detail of the instrumentation on the bridge was crisp .


----------



## LINDELLTOM

I heard that there are six people living on the same block in Newark are the only ones who can get Channel 13 in H.D.


----------



## Maggot

" We run five channels of DT every day. x-1 through x-4 from midnight to 8pm. At 8pm we cut off x-2 and x-3 and kick in x-5 which is the HD. At midnight we cut off the HD"-Bob


* Camden - channel 22

* Trenton - channel 43

* New Brunswick - channel 8

* Montclair - channel 51 - (Bob's WNJN link info)

=============================================

Thanks, Bob, for your thorough help on NJ's PBS-HD. Goldens Bridge is in northern Westchester, abt 45 miles due north of ESB / NYC. I looked at the site you linked us, but I don't know which county the cited antenna cities are in... could you advise which is closest to the middle of northern border of Westchester?


And here's where I blush with ignorance... X-1, X-2 etc are these your private

designations for the signals from your sites at Camden, Trenton, etc? Or is that a convention, a way to refer to "sub-channels"?

(Oh, how I wish this concept of "channels" had never been popularized!)


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maggot_
> *" We run five channels of DT every day. x-1 through x-4 from midnight to 8pm. At 8pm we cut off x-2 and x-3 and kick in x-5 which is the HD. At midnight we cut off the HD"-Bob
> 
> 
> * Camden - channel 22
> 
> * Trenton - channel 43
> 
> * New Brunswick - channel 8
> 
> * Montclair - channel 51 - (Bob's WNJN link info)
> 
> =============================================
> 
> Thanks, Bob, for your thorough help on NJ's PBS-HD. Goldens Bridge is in northern Westchester, abt 45 miles due north of ESB / NYC. I looked at the site you linked us, but I don't know which county the cited antenna cities are in... could you advise which is closest to the middle of northern border of Westchester?
> 
> 
> And here's where I blush with ignorance... X-1, X-2 etc are these your private
> 
> designations for the signals from your sites at Camden, Trenton, etc? Or is that a convention, a way to refer to "sub-channels"?
> 
> (Oh, how I wish this concept of "channels" had never been popularized!)*



I know it's confusing.










the x-1, x-2 are my way of indicating our sub-channels. Because we broadcast the same programming on four towers, all our channels are different depending on which tower you're receiving, hence the x variable.


For example, channel 8 rebrands to 58 on my tuner and we have five sub channels so, 58-1, 58-2, 58-3, 58-4, 58-5. Similarly 51 rebrands as 52-1, through 52-5. So I used x to designate any one of our four towers channels.


In the list of channels the Camden tower is the farthest south and they get farther north as you go down the list. Montclair is the farthest north tower we have. On those pages there should be a map of our coverage area. You may not be in our coverage area for Montclair but I'm not sure.


----------



## vinnyv07

Problemis that WNET has only 2 sub ch's. They run PBS kids 24 hrs a day....that ch is actually in a package for Directv that you have to pay extra for....and I do. 5 sub ch's are useless. Even when PBS shows HD on a ch and knocks the other 2 sub ch's off the HD is really of very poor quality. The fact that there are three ch's at once running squeezes the hell out of bandwidth and makes it unwatchable. That is the reason why WNET is so attractive to me....because of just the 2 sub ch's.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *I don't know what's going on with WNET PBS. What I do know is that NJN broadcasts HD every night starting at 8pm on the x-5 channel (barring any problems).
> 
> 
> We run five channels of DT every day. x-1 through x-4 from midnight to 8pm. At 8pm we cut off x-2 and x-3 and kick in x-5 which is the HD. At midnight we cut off the HD and put back on the other two SD channels.
> 
> 
> This is done because there's not enough bandwidth to run four SD channels and the HD channel all at the same time.
> 
> 
> Let me know if you can pick it up. Good Luck!*



Bob,


Here in Northeastern Queens I was picking up the Channell 51 signal very well until a few months ago. The signal was excellent and we were enjoying some conventional PBS rebroadcasts and also many HDTV programs including Rudy Maxa's travel shows. Then all of a sudden it went almost blank. Since then my receiver shows it at a very intermittent 3 (of 10) level and there is no reception at all. Something evidently happened at that time.


Does that ring any bells, and is there a chance that there will be more power any time soon?


Mel


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *Problemis that WNET has only 2 sub ch's. They run PBS kids 24 hrs a day....that ch is actually in a package for Directv that you have to pay extra for....and I do. 5 sub ch's are useless. Even when PBS shows HD on a ch and knocks the other 2 sub ch's off the HD is really of very poor quality. The fact that there are three ch's at once running squeezes the hell out of bandwidth and makes it unwatchable. That is the reason why WNET is so attractive to me....because of just the 2 sub ch's.*



Have you actually looked at NJN's HD programming?


I don't know what the bitrate is for it offhand but I can check. Last thing I watched looked as good as any CBS HD. I think the SD channels are what's being overly compressed but I don't know. I'll see what I can find out about bandwidth for the DT and what each channel is using.


I believe that the max bandwidth is 19mb/sec but I'm not sure.


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Bob,
> 
> 
> Here in Northeastern Queens I was picking up the Channell 51 signal very well until a few months ago. The signal was excellent and we were enjoying some conventional PBS rebroadcasts and also many HDTV programs including Rudy Maxa's travel shows. Then all of a sudden it went almost blank. Since then my receiver shows it at a very intermittent 3 (of 10) level and there is no reception at all. Something evidently happened at that time.
> 
> 
> Does that ring any bells, and is there a chance that there will be more power any time soon?
> 
> 
> Mel*



Well, the engineer in charge of the towers is changing out equipment and also told me we were boosting power for a couple of the towers. I can check with him next week and see what the story is. Thanks for the heads-up!


You might want to try a rescan because there have been some issues with the rebranding equipment.


----------



## ElVee

Newbie here. Pardon my ignorance.


I'm in Jersey City NY, about 1 mile from the Hudson River, in line with Ground Zero. I guess that puts me about 3-5 miles from ESB.


I recently bought a Panasonic TH-42PHD7UY. The DirecTv installer installed my phase 3 dish, DirecTiVo HR10-250 and a Winegard GS-1000 antenna this morning. Unfortunately, I could not get through to DirecTv to activate my account for about 1 1/2 hours. The installer eventually had to go to his next call. By the time I was able to get through, I saw that I had a few problems.


1 - When I tune to the network feeds of the locals, I only get the east coast. The DirecTv rep I spoke to when I placed the order last week, said I'd get both. Before I call back, I thought I'd ask here whether or not that is true.


2 - I can't seem to get any OTA channels except channels 7-1 and 7-2 (WABC) and the Spanish station channel 41. When I run the channel scan in the setup it only shows two channels. Is the Winegard GS-1000 a decent enough antenna to get the locals. I'm so close to ESB that I can't believe that the antenna could be the problem. I checked the connections and they're solid. I tried to rotate the antenna to no avail. Besides, it's already pointing in the direction of the ESB.


Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> 
> When I run the channel scan in the setup it only shows two channels.



Try tuning UHF channels individually, checking an indicator for signal strength aS you move your antenna. Check antennaweb.org for the channels. -- John


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *1 - When I tune to the network feeds of the locals, I only get the east coast. The DirecTv rep I spoke to when I placed the order last week, said I'd get both. Before I call back, I thought I'd ask here whether or not that is true.*



You're only eligible to get the east coast HD network channels.


----------



## SteveWinNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *I can't seem to get any OTA channels except channels 7-1 and 7-2 (WABC) and the Spanish station channel 41. When I run the channel scan in the setup it only shows two channels.*



Just so you know how to tweak the different channels on your HR10-250, go to "Messages & Setup", then choose "Settings", then "Satellite & Off air antenna", then choose "Test Off air signal Strength". Then do what John suggested in the previous post about tweaking your antenna. Just moving the antenna a little bit makes a big difference.


...and we were all newbies once...post back with your results...there are many very helpful people here for you!


edit: in fact one of most helpful already replied re: your network feeds!


----------



## Infominister

Why isn't WABC-DT showing the game in HD?


----------



## SteveWinNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Why isn't WABC-DT showing the game in HD?*



HDTV OTA here!


----------



## Infominister

Yeah, someone finally threw the switch.


----------



## jsteed

You all have provided me a ton of information. Yet I live in the North Jersey and am about 20miles west of New York City. I want to get OTA reception of HDTV. I went to antennaweb.org and typed in my zip. The result was that no DTV signals are available. I did so more research and found out that OTA is a LOS type situation and since there are two mountains between me and NYC it appears that I am SOL. However were I am confused is I did the same search on antennaweb.org for other friends further west with more mountains, as well as ones in New Brunswick and for some reason they can receive the signals no problem. The signals need to get past where I live so how can they receive them and I can't? Any suggestions on what to do to fix this would be appreciated. I can get channel 29 which appears to be a religious channel, however that is the only one. Any suggestions please.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jsteed_
> *You all have provided me a ton of information. Yet I live in the North Jersey and am about 20miles west of New York City. I want to get OTA reception of HDTV. I went to antennaweb.org and typed in my zip. The result was that no DTV signals are available. I did so more research and found out that OTA is a LOS type situation and since there are two mountains between me and NYC it appears that I am SOL. However were I am confused is I did the same search on antennaweb.org for other friends further west with more mountains, as well as ones in New Brunswick and for some reason they can receive the signals no problem. The signals need to get past where I live so how can they receive them and I can't? Any suggestions on what to do to fix this would be appreciated. I can get channel 29 which appears to be a religious channel, however that is the only one. Any suggestions please.*



If you are in a valley you may in fact be SOL. But, if you are partially elevated you may want to try getting a TALL pole for an off-air antenna. Fortunately you aren't very far, so a medium sized antenna with a pre-amp would do the trick. The height of the antenna will be the key.


----------



## slocko

is there going to be a formal announcement in this forum when each channel is officially up and running and out of test mode?


yesterday i tried a square shooter indoors and it doesn't pick up anything at all.


----------



## SnellKrell

Formal Announcement?


We are fortunate when someone working at one the stations involved is kind enough to post some information. In reality, this forum contains bits of information that we individually can pick up and also our own observations.


Concerning your Square Shooter - I'm very disappointed in mine. Indoors it did next to nothing for me. On my terrace, in only provides very spotty reception. In actuality, my little Silver Sensor perched on a windowsill puts it to shame.

And the Silver Sensor can be had for a bit more than $20. You might want to consider the Silver Sensor if you must use an indoor antenna.


Gary


----------



## slocko

It's frustrating. I get every channel but WWOR with my megawave. Move it and I lose WPIX.


I might have to bite the bullet and get an outdoor antenna installed. Something I have avoided for so long. I guess I will wait until the WPIX engineer posts that they are out of test mode, or I see the guide data appear on Directv.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jsteed_
> *You all have provided me a ton of information. Yet I live in the North Jersey and am about 20miles west of New York City. I want to get OTA reception of HDTV. I went to antennaweb.org and typed in my zip. The result was that no DTV signals are available. I did so more research and found out that OTA is a LOS type situation and since there are two mountains between me and NYC it appears that I am SOL. However were I am confused is I did the same search on antennaweb.org for other friends further west with more mountains, as well as ones in New Brunswick and for some reason they can receive the signals no problem. The signals need to get past where I live so how can they receive them and I can't? Any suggestions on what to do to fix this would be appreciated. I can get channel 29 which appears to be a religious channel, however that is the only one. Any suggestions please.*



what town do you live in?


If your elevation is lower then the towns of your friends that could be alot. Hardly any terain is perfectly flat so even if they are further past you they could very well be of higher elevation, which would matter more then distance when looking at getting a signal.


----------



## PoitNarf




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Concerning your Square Shooter - I'm very disappointed in mine. Indoors it did next to nothing for me. On my terrace, in only provides very spotty reception. In actuality, my little Silver Sensor perched on a windowsill puts it to shame.
> 
> And the Silver Sensor can be had for a bit more than $20. You might want to consider the Silver Sensor if you must use an indoor antenna.*



My Square Shooter , the one with the preamp (SS-2000), performs better than I could have hoped. I have it mounted outside and pointed pretty much directly at the ESB with no obstructions at all. I get just about all the OTA in the area at a 90% signal or higher with that antenna. Make sure you have a good compass, because I have noticed that just a difference of 10 degrees or so in pointing the antenna is the difference between 10 OTA channels and 2.


----------



## hphase

Hello? Is anyone working on the Combiner at the ESB? Is anyone monitoring this board? WWOR(38) has made a return, but WABC(45) is now gone. WCBS(56) is still surprisingly strong and WNYW(44, and not on the Combiner) is very iffy.


Enquiring minds (in NW NJ) want to know...


----------



## SnellKrell

PoitNarf -


Glad that your Square Shooter is working so well for you. Mine is the

SS-1000, the model without the preamp. I specifically did not buy the

SS-2000 because I live less than 2 miles from the ESB. Living in the East 60s in Manhattan, the problem is not signal strength; although I live on the 22nd floor, I'm surrounded by tall buidings with no line of sight to the ESB. I do have a good compass, but I'm trying to conquer a great deal of multipath. Some of reception is better when I use reflected signals vs. aiming directly at ESB. I have the same problem with the Silver Sensor, but overall, the Silver Sensor receives more stations when located in one position than the Square Shooter. When the weather gets warmer, I'll go back out on the terrace and go through the tedium of walking the Square Shooter in different locations - degree by degree.


You mentioned that you have "no obstructions at all." Lucky, Lucky!


Gary


----------



## Morg111

Does anyone know when WWOR (9-1) is going to start sending program data?


M


----------



## KenA

I sent WWOR a couple of emails last week. They have no idea when the system will be running 100%, including program data Search back a few pages for the email address and send them an inquirey. Maybe they'll bump up the priority if enough people write.


----------



## PoitNarf




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *Does anyone know when WWOR (9-1) is going to start sending program data?*



I'd be more interested when it gets remapped to 9-1 instead of 38-1.


----------



## SnellKrell

As had been previously posted, WWOR-DT is awaiting the delivery of new PSIP equipment that will allow the station to provide proper remapping to 9.1 and insert program information.


According to the chief engineer for New York Fox stations, the station is operating at its fully authorized ERP.


Gary


----------



## Linux23

I haven't had time to scan for new channels since I was on vacation, but this is sweet music to my ears. The NYC-DT market is back in action.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *According to the chief engineer for New York Fox stations, the station is operating at its fully authorized ERP.*



Then why can't I get a strong enought signal to watch it? I've got good digital reception on WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WABC and sometimes WNJN.


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Then why can't I get a strong enought signal to watch it? I've got good digital reception on WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WABC and sometimes WNJN.*



Don't panic yet. I have a feeling that once all the little details are in place you will get WWOR/UPN.


I'm only 15 miles west of the ESB. Whatever "they're" doing is affecting me to. For a very short tim I had a good signal...thena fringe pixeled signal...then no signal...then an adequate signal re-emerged on 38.1...today I get nothing.


What what I gather, even though they're broadcasting at full power, tweeking and adjustments are hindering the signal.


For me WPIX comes and goes.

For the last day or so WNBC was gone but is back this morning.


----------



## eganm947

Is there anyone on this forum who is from Orange County, NY (60 miles north and west of NYC)?


Just bought a Sony HDTV and want to know if I should bother trying to figure out how to get off-air HDTV in my locale.


Thx.


----------



## mad6c

My WCBS signal right now seems to be back where it was before the combiner work started (in the 90s). Does anyone know if anything has changed.


It has consistently been in the 60s with frequent dropout for the last few weeks.


Mike


----------



## Maggot




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by eganm947_
> *Is there anyone on this forum who is from Orange County, NY (60 miles north and west of NYC)?
> 
> 
> Just bought a Sony HDTV and want to know if I should bother trying to figure out how to get off-air HDTV in my locale.
> 
> 
> Thx.*



I'm in south salem, 45 miles due n of NYC, w a 20 year old Yagi-type UHF/VHF RS antenna 650' ASL pointed south ,no rotor, w a very nice Channel Master Titan2 model 7777 preamp just-installed.

I never watched regular commercial broadcast VHF TV these 20 years, but that's where we must look for OTA HDTV: esp UHF!

Well, I can't see s**t in Hi def, precious little in digital TV at all, even in 480i.

That's all I'm seeing from due south of me. I doubt you'll get joy from south of you from anothr 20 miles distant.


Look for Poughkeepsie; look for help... like from antenna web at
http://*******.com/6zsr5. 

Nice site, that.


----------



## George Thompson

Up in the Northern and NW burbs there is too much terrain to contend with. Unless you are up on a mountain, like Storm King, forgettaboutit. Michael, you probably have Bear Mountain, Dunderburg (sp) in the way. Shadows all over the place, sorry. I'm lucky that at least I have a shot down the Hudson from my Croton/Cortlandt apartment. I can see the TappenZee and Manhattan beyond.

George


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *Well, the engineer in charge of the towers is changing out equipment and also told me we were boosting power for a couple of the towers. I can check with him next week and see what the story is. Thanks for the heads-up!*



Bob,


Any word?


Mel


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Maggot_
> *I doubt you'll get joy from south of you from anothr 20 miles distant.*



Not necessarily, 20 miles further than you might not have any problems; see this for an explanation: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html


----------



## Swisher

What a great site. Now I've got some reading to do!


----------



## mirage00

Hi everyone...


I just installed a channel master 4228 antenna in my attic... The cable run is pretty long, probably about 75 feet of cable used to get to the basement plasma...


I live in manhasset long island about 15 miles from the ESP


I get the following channels well


wnbc - nbc

wpxn - PAX

wpix - wb

wynw - fox


I can't seem to get abc or cbs... any suggestions? I have moved the anteena to several different directions and can't seem to lock onto those channels.


I don't have a pre-amp. would that help?


Thanks in advance


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mirage00_
> *Hi everyone...
> 
> 
> I just installed a channel master 4228 antenna in my attic... The cable run is pretty long, probably about 75 feet of cable used to get to the basement plasma...
> 
> 
> I live in manhasset long island about 15 miles from the ESP
> 
> 
> I get the following channels well
> 
> 
> wnbc - nbc
> 
> wpxn - PAX
> 
> wpix - wb
> 
> wynw - fox
> 
> 
> I can't seem to get abc or cbs... any suggestions? I have moved the anteena to several different directions and can't seem to lock onto those channels.
> 
> 
> I don't have a pre-amp. would that help?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance*



You could probably get away with just taking it out of the attic. If you can't, try the CM7777. You should still get CBS & UPN if you get WB & NBC, they all come from the same antenna. ABC (and PBS) will be joining soon as well.


----------



## newhdcrt

I know they are working on the combiner so things are in flux, but tonight is just odd. No fox, no NBC and CBS is broadcasting ABC material. Maybe it's my receiver or all the rain and fog but I tuned in CSI my receiver says it's CSI and it's some wife swap with the ABC bug in the corner.


----------



## SteveWinNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by newhdcrt_
> *I know they are working on the combiner so things are in flux, but tonight is just odd. No fox, no NBC and CBS is broadcasting ABC material. Maybe it's my receiver or all the rain and fog but I tuned in CSI my receiver says it's CSI and it's some wife swap with the ABC bug in the corner.*



That's very strange..what time did you see CBS broadcasting ABC material? I watched the last 30-40 minutes of CSI New York without a problem OTA from northern Bergen County...


----------



## ilkevinli

Is anyone else with a HR10-250 having problems getting WPIX-DT to remap to 11-1 ? The only way I can get WPIX-DT is to enter 33-3. When I clear the OTA channels and rescan it still won't remap. Any Suggestions ?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by newhdcrt_
> *CBS is broadcasting ABC material.*



I would suggest rebooting your receiver and rescanning the OTA channels.


----------



## newhdcrt

It was about 10:55 EST and then the news was abc. I checked back later and Letterman was on. I have no idea what caused this.


----------



## slocko

My 11-1 became 11-2 on my hr10-250. No idea why. I lost 11-1 and the spanish feed. But I don't care since I can get 11-1, it's just listed as 11-2.


Now I can get 9-1 if I move the antenna, which I don't understand because some people say they aren't broadcasting the id info for the channel??? So why is mine reading 9-1?


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *My 11-1 became 11-2 on my hr10-250. No idea why. I lost 11-1 and the spanish feed. But I don't care since I can get 11-1, it's just listed as 11-2.
> 
> 
> Now I can get 9-1 if I move the antenna, which I don't understand because some people say they aren't broadcasting the id info for the channel??? So why is mine reading 9-1?*



Since they went up on the combiner, I've always gotten both 11-1 and 11-2. Both appear to be 1080i signals of the same show, but the sound appears differently on the two stations, with 11-1 seeming fuller. Personally, I see no reason to have 11-2.


----------



## SnellKrell

11-2 has been used for SAP - Spanish language soundtracks which are mono.


Gary


----------



## Brainodo

11.2 is the Spanish language broadcast according to my HD-200.


[edit]snap[/edit]


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *11-2 has been used for SAP - Spanish language soundtracks which are mono.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Interesting. I always have gotten English, but maybe I have to press the SAP button on the remote.


----------



## SnellKrell

Not all shows have the Spanish language SAP. On my receiver - Sony SAT

HD300, it comes in automatically - no need to press the SAP button.


Gary


----------



## SnellKrell

Keep your fingers crossed!


Something is going on with WABC-DT.


Absolutely no signal coming through for channels 7.1 and 7.2.

Additionally, DirecTV's feed of WABC-DT, on channel 86, is not broadcasting

the station. I surmise that DirecTV takes its signal off-air, not via a fiber optic link to the station.


Could this all mean that the station is doing work on the combiner????


I e-mailed the station last week asking if there were any information concerning when the combiner antenna would be operative. But unlike the terrific chief engineer at Fox stations (5 and 9) who answered me within 20 minutes, I've heard nothing from the "Mouse House."


I know a lot of you receive the current Conde-Nast transmission without problems - but I'm not that fortunate and hope that the move to the ESB will allow me and others to watch O-T-A vs. using DirecTV's feed. What a difference between using my little Silver Sensor antenna with no compression and the lower quality of the satellite feed.


Gary


----------



## HDugan

Gary, I'm one of the people who gets ABC-DT from Conde-Nast without problems, until now.


15 miles west of NYC ABC-DT is out.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, we're back on the air.


WABC-DT's signal is stronger - but still not great.


Really don't know if the move actually did take place.


With my having to contend with so much multipath, I really can't tell -

and Conde-Nast and ESB are situated very close to each other.


Anyone else with readings and reactions????


Gary


----------



## kcn823




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ilkevinli_
> *Is anyone else with a HR10-250 having problems getting WPIX-DT to remap to 11-1 ? The only way I can get WPIX-DT is to enter 33-3. When I clear the OTA channels and rescan it still won't remap. Any Suggestions ?*



Do you still get Ch12 remapping to 11-1? When I cleared my OTA channels and rescanned I got two ch 11-1. One of them is remapped from Ch 12 and that one has guide date and I have second 11-1 from ch 33 without guide date. Just like I have 9-1 for UPN without any guide data.


----------



## MLM

Does anyone know why Channel 5 continues to waste bandwidth by broadcasting Channel 9's signal on 5-2 when Channel 9 is on the air (on Channel 38)? And the same for the Channel 5 broadcast on 38-2?


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Bob,
> 
> 
> Any word?
> 
> 
> Mel*



The only word I got from him yesterday is the state has to approve the cash to get the equipment so it's going to be spring earliest.










The only two towers being boosted are the Channel 8 New Brunswick (VHF - Double Power) and the Camden Tower (South Jersey up to 135,000 watts).


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Does anyone know why Channel 5 continues to waste bandwidth by broadcasting Channel 9's signal on 5-2 when Channel 9 is on the air (on Channel 38)? And the same for the Channel 5 broadcast on 38-2?*



redundancy and greater coverage


----------



## Scott G

According to this article WWOR-DT will be required to get the PSIP information out by February 1 :



PSIP Deadline Looms

Broadcasters must have equipment in place by next month


WASHINGTON



Television stations across the country are facing a Feb. 1 deadline to upgrade their DTV transmissions to include correct channel and programming information as part of their Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) data.


With many different vendors providing various parts of the system, there is some last-minute head scratching about how to get the data collected and fed to the proper equipment. Some stations have already been on the air with DTV signals that meet the FCC mandate, while others are still scrambling to get the technology in place and debugged. It's going to be close.


One station that has been up and running for several months with the required PSIP data is WRGB in Schenectady, N.Y. The station's PSIP data includes an electronic programming guide that's updated every three hours as well as major/minor channel information for its CBS and UPN broadcasts.


"We've been running dynamic PSIP using our VCI traffic system and Triveni PSIP generator," said Fred Lass, director of engineering for WRGB.


The station then feeds this to its Tandberg Television encoder for its digital broadcast. The data includes updated programming information for both its CBS and UPN offerings, which the station passes through in HD for CBS while maintaining an SD feed for UPN.


WRGB was able to jump ahead of the game with effective use of in-house talent, according to Lass.


"I have a software guy who likes challenges," he said, singling out Peter Hutchins as the enterprising engineer who tackled the project.


Although WRGB meets the FCC's mandated PSIP information requirement, the station's early-adopter status caused another concern.


"We're looking to change our system to meet the new ATSC standard for PSIP metadata," Lass said.



TSID


In addition to requiring electronic program guide (EPG) information, the FCC mandate also calls for the implementation of the transmission signal identification, or TSID. The TSID is a 16-bit number that associates a station's analog transmission with its digital transmission, and is key to maintaining "channel branding" of DTV broadcasters.


Each broadcaster will receive two TSIDs--one each for its analog and digital transmissions--and will include the TSID on line 21 of the analog broadcast and in the PSIP data for its digital broadcast.


Although integration into a broadcast plant is not the same for every station, solutions exist to meet the PSIP requirement.


"The gear is out there," said Earl Arbuckle, vice president of engineering for the Fox Television Group.


The Pearl PSIP generator/injector from Thales Broadcast and Multimedia is the company's PSIP generator, editor and injector. A Pearl system receives schedule information from multiple sources and generates PSIP tables; using its ASI output, Pearl injects the data into Thales' or other company's multiplexer for DTV transmission.


The solution from Harris Broadcast is its PSIPplus, which compiles EPG and channel information and supplies it to the company's FlexiCoder and UniCoder DTV encoders. PSIPplus supports automatic data importation from traffic and automation systems, as well as data from program listing services including Tribune Media Services.


Relative newcomer Lynx Pro Products recently announced its TVLynx PSIP generator, which has interfaces for TMS and Crispin automation systems and provides the data on either an ASI or Ethernet port.



MAKING PSIP EASIER


Although stations are responsible for their PSIP data, many broadcast programming from networks and the networks are angling to do what they can to make the PSIP requirements as simple as possible to their affiliates. Fox plans to use the Terayon BP5100 to "splice" between network and local-affiliate DTV broadcasts, eliminating the need to decode and re-encode the signal. The result will be glitch-free programming and PSIP data.


"We wanted to avoid the second compression cycle," said Jim DeFillipis, senior VP of TV engineering for Fox Television. "We use the best available compression at the net work level to keep the quality as high as possible for the viewer."


With FCC mandated dynamic PSIP with TSID, the need follows to monitor the MPEG signal to ensure the data is correct. One company to address this monitoring issue is Pixelmetrix, whose DVStation can monitor nearly any parameter associated with DTV signals.


Although TV stations are rushing to implement dynamic PSIP and TSID, not all broadcast circumstances will be immediately handled by the first generation of PSIP products. Two engineers interviewed for this article said that the current systems would not automatically accommodate a program "run-over" event, such as a football game in overtime or a breaking news story.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...P_Newsp1.shtml


----------



## mirage00

I live 15 miles away from NYC... I have an attic moounted CM4228... The only channel I don't get is CBS.... All other channels have a signal strenght of 68-75%


I don't know what the other information is regarding the channel stength means like "snp" or or something like that.. what should i be looking for?


NBC is the strongest, I never have a problem with signal strenghth... ABC is the weakest.


Thanks


----------



## Morg111




> Quote:
> According to this article WWOR-DT will be required to get the PSIP information out by February 1 :



Great, then I won't have to keep manually recording Enterprise.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mirage00_
> *I live 15 miles away from NYC... I have an attic moounted CM4228... The only channel I don't get is CBS.... All other channels have a signal strenght of 68-75%
> 
> 
> I don't know what the other information is regarding the channel stength means like "snp" or or something like that.. what should i be looking for?
> 
> 
> NBC is the strongest, I never have a problem with signal strenghth... ABC is the weakest.
> 
> 
> Thanks*



Hi Mirage00. Welcome over here from the Dell thread. I have an attic mounted RS antenna- UHF only. I live just past you in the Glen Head area, 20 miles from the transmitter. I have the same problem and same signal strengths. No CBS. I used to get it, just before the combiner went on line, but now I don't. Don't know why, either as it is supposed to be the one at full strength. I put in an amplifier (poor quality radio shack version) with no luck. Made things worse on all other stations. I then put in a splitter as a test, and the strengths all went up. This indicates to me that CBS, being the only full strength station, may be too strong, and we need an attenuator. I'm going to see if I can get a couple this weekend and try them out. I'll let you know when I know more. Are you set to get email notifcations of PM's?


Also it's SNR, signal to noise ratio. The lower the better. Putting in the splitter increased my signal strength without adding noise, so the SNR got better (lower) - from around 25 to around 19 as a rule. Hopefully the attenuator will work even better. Glad to know it's likely the signal and not the Dell (although you have the Dell, so they both could have the same problem). As I did once receive it very strongly (CSI Miami looks awesome in HD), and it went down right at the time of the transfer to the combiner, I'm sure it's related somehow. Eventually, I'll have to find someone who has a OTA HD receiver and borrower it. I'll try the attenuator first.


----------



## plasmafan

I live 33 air miles east of the ESB on the north shore and I just started to receive WNBC yesterday. Both 4.1 and 4.2 are now coming in at 74%. I have some drop-outs in bad weather. When WNBC drops out WCBS is still coming in at 89% so I think NBC is still down on power. Point is something changed yesterday at the ESB that allows me to get 4.1 and 4.2 now.


CM 4221+preamp

Pana TU-DST52


----------



## mirage00




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *Hi Mirage00. Welcome over heear from the Dell thread. I have an attic mounted RS antenna- UHF only. I live just past you in the Glen Head area, 20 miles from the transmitter. I have the same problem and same signal strengths. No CBS. I used to get it, just before the combiner went on line, but now I don't. Don't know why, either as it is supposed to be the one at full strength. I put in an amplifier (poor quality radio shack version) with no luck. Made things worse on all other stations. I then put in a splitter as a test, and the strengths all went up. This indicates to me that CBS, being the only full strength station, may be too strong, and we need an attenuator. I'm going to see if I can get a couple this weekend and try them out. I'll let you know when I know more. Are you set to get email notifcations of PM's?
> 
> 
> Also it's SNR, signal to noise ratio. The lower the better. Putting in the splitter increased my signal strength without adding noise, so the SNR got better (lower) - from around 25 to around 19 as a rule. Hopefully the attenuator will work even better. Glad to know it's likely the signal and not the Dell (although you have the Dell, so they both could have the same problem). As I did once receive it very strongly (CSI Miami looks awesome in HD), and it went down right at the time of the transfer to the combiner, I'm sure it's related somehow. Eventually, I'll have to find someone who has a OTA HD receiver and borrower it. I'll try the attenuator first.*




jgrahamiii


Thanks so much for your detailed message... yes I can receive PM's. I am ordering an HDTV wonder card from ATI for my media center pc, so I guess that can serve as our test tuner to make sure its not the DELL reciever. Let me know what you come up with when you install the attenuator if that helps...


----------



## mirage00

One other thing... what exactly do you mean by splitter?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mirage00_
> *One other thing... what exactly do you mean by splitter?*



An attenuator just reduces the signal; similarly a splitter provides 2 or more outputs from 1 input by dividing the signal between the outputs. If you place a splitter inline with only one output connected, you've effectively attenuated the one signal by about 3.5db (a little less than half).


----------



## mad6c

jgrahamiii,


Please post your finds here with model and location of purchase of the attenuators you used. I'm noticing the same thing since the combiner went on-line. Luckily I have the DirecTV CBS HD feed to use, but would rather use the OTA channel. Hopefully this doesn't happen to all the channels when they go full power.


Mike


----------



## Paperboy2003

I don't know why I haven't seen any changes since they started tinkering with the combiner. Yes, I now get 38.3, but I stilld don't get 4.1 or 4.2 ota. I get NBC HD through D* now so it's not a big deal, I just find it curious that you are all saying how some channels are coming in while others are not and I'm not seeing any difference. I'd estimate I'm about 30-35 miles due west of the GWB.


Doug


----------



## Swisher

Same here, Paperboy, although I'm on 14th St. in Manhattan. I haven't seen any change since way before the combiner went up. CBS is king, NBC is in and out, ABC is always good. I got UPN for about a day, but nothing in the last week or so. Others note the complete opposite, sometimes CBS being weak, NBC strong, etc. I will try an attenuator since I'm so close, but I don't think that's it. I'm only using an indoor Silver Sensor. Maybe it really is "Location, location, location."


----------



## SnellKrell

Swisher -


You couldn't be more correct. It's Location, Location, Location!


I also use a Silver Sensor on a west-facing windowsill on the 22nd Floor in the East 60s.


NBC - since it moved, stronger than ever; ABC - very, very difficult to receive; WB - when it's on the air (more hours lately quite variable; UPN - difficult to receive; CBS - when I aim for it, can be pretty strong; Fox - not that great - awaiting them to get FCC apprpval to power up.


It's not easy living in Manhattan. I guess if I wanted line of sight, I could move to Iowa!


Awaiting WNET-DT - which is not available via my DirecTV dish.


Gary


----------



## Swisher

One must wonder how we will ever make the complete switch from analog to digital...


----------



## SnellKrell

swisher -


Just imagine what it's going to be like for those of us who have DirecTV.


Our receivers and dishes will soon be obsolete as Direct switches from MPEG 2 to MPEG 4 compression.


Between the combiner and MPEG 4, I'm ready to jump from the 22nd Floor!


Gary


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *The only word I got from him yesterday is the state has to approve the cash to get the equipment so it's going to be spring earliest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



What state and who do we start bombarding with mail to light a fire under 'em?


----------



## cissado

As of 2 days ago I got all the locals from my attic antenna connecting through my HD811 receiver. A few dropped off since then, I thought it might be the heavy fog or something. I scanned and got some back and manually replaced others, but I cannot get CBS ch2 back. I scanned, reset, removed, manually installed (56), called Dish network 3 times... What's going on? Anyone else have this?


Almost forgot, I get a 90%+ signal when I manually check it to install, but nothing happens when I press "save". I can't believe Dish is just not responding, saying"you did everything right". lol Well, now what? I want channel 2. I rent the receiver, maybe they'll give me a new one if it's faulty.


Any thoughts?


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Newbie here. Pardon my ignorance.
> 
> 
> I'm in Jersey City NY, about 1 mile from the Hudson River, in line with Ground Zero. I guess that puts me about 3-5 miles from ESB.
> 
> 
> I recently bought a Panasonic TH-42PHD7UY. The DirecTv installer installed my phase 3 dish, DirecTiVo HR10-250 and a Winegard GS-1000 antenna this morning. Unfortunately, I could not get through to DirecTv to activate my account for about 1 1/2 hours. The installer eventually had to go to his next call. By the time I was able to get through, I saw that I had a few problems.
> 
> 
> 1 - When I tune to the network feeds of the locals, I only get the east coast. The DirecTv rep I spoke to when I placed the order last week, said I'd get both. Before I call back, I thought I'd ask here whether or not that is true.
> 
> 
> 2 - I can't seem to get any OTA channels except channels 7-1 and 7-2 (WABC) and the Spanish station channel 41. When I run the channel scan in the setup it only shows two channels. Is the Winegard GS-1000 a decent enough antenna to get the locals. I'm so close to ESB that I can't believe that the antenna could be the problem. I checked the connections and they're solid. I tried to rotate the antenna to no avail. Besides, it's already pointing in the direction of the ESB.
> 
> 
> Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.*



First off that antenna is trash, pick up something like this as a start-- http://www.antennasdirect.com/db4_bow.htm 


What part of jersey city are you living in? If your on the western side of Kennedy Blvd getting down to Westside or further West your going to be "iffy" -- if your in the heights you should be good to go, if your down by the waterfront it will depend on what buildings are between you and empire.


----------



## sangs

I don't watch much on NBC these days, but I'm glad DirecTV started carrying the HD channel because I haven't been able to pick it up OTA in the last couple weeks. It used to come in loud and clear, but no more. No problems with any other OTA signals though.


----------



## roytucker

Consistently for the past few nights, I can get WPN and WPIX, however NBC continues to be sporadic with a signal strangth around 55 in Central New Jersey (near Flemington). Does anyone know if the testing is done and that this will be the best we can do ?


----------



## HDntheCity

after rebooting my Samsung 160 WWOR-DT is now mapping as 9-1 with partial prog. info. the guide lists titles but no prog. details. after midnight it says only "regular schedule". WPIX-DT has full guide info until 10 PM then lists titles only. so it looks like WWOR-DT is sending at least some PSIP info. anyone else getting this tonite?


jim


----------



## cissado

Did CBS NY change their broadcast channel? I doubt it, but on both my 811s I can't get them back into the receiver. Ig get a strong signal in the 90s but can't "add" them. Also, when on BC 56, I see that the bottom number is also 56 and not Channel 2. That's strange. Why would both my receivers be doing that?


Is there something I'm missing here? I reset the receiver with the front button, unplugged the receiver, removed the channels and added them back with a scan AND manually... Have I tried everything? Dish has no idea what's going on. They said maybe CBS is'nt broadcasting on 56 anymore. I doubt it... anyone?


----------



## slocko

Did Enterprise have breakups on Friday?


I had sporadic pixelation and I want to make sure it's not my hd-tivo heading south again.


thxs.


----------



## mw390

Enterprise came through fine the entire show.


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Morg111_
> *Great, then I won't have to keep manually recording Enterprise.*



WWOR-DT received its PSIP gear today and the crack tech crew already has it on-line. If you rescan your receivers, you should now be getting 9.1 and 9.2 instead of 38-x. Guide data should also be available. It's being input manually right now, so may not be as complete as what will be available when the listing service is tied into the PSIP computer next week (hopefully!).


If anyone has problems with this PSIP data, please respond to me via PM. All of the Fox O&O stations will roll out this same system in about a week, so any comments, good or bad, would be appreciated.


Thanx,


dtv4u


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mad6c_
> *jgrahamiii,
> 
> 
> Please post your finds here with model and location of purchase of the attenuators you used. I'm noticing the same thing since the combiner went on-line. Luckily I have the DirecTV CBS HD feed to use, but would rather use the OTA channel. Hopefully this doesn't happen to all the channels when they go full power.
> 
> 
> Mike*



Ok. I am 20 miles from the ESB on the north shore of LI. I have a Dell plasma with an ATSC tuner built in. I have a Radio Shack 15-2160 UHF outdoor antenna in my attic. With just the cable run, I get 4, 5, 7, 9 (38), 11, 31, 41, and 68 at what the Dell says is a signal strength of between 55 and 70 and an SNR of 22-25. I have not been able to get CBS since it went on the combiner, but it used to be my strongest signal.


If I put in a radio shack 10db inline amp at the antenna, I get lower signal strength on all channels with no change in what I can receive. If I put in one radio shack 6db attenuator at the TV end, every signal increases in stregth by about 10-12 and the SNR goes down to about 17-20. I still get all the stations but CBS, though my strongest signal, 68 - now over 80, pixelates sometimes. If I put in either a second attenuator, or a splitter, the lesser signals go up even higher, but I lose all the stations which had signals close to 80 with one attenuator. Their signal strengths now generally show 10 or 20, they don't come in at all, and sometimes, the signal strength briefly shows 100. Still can't get CBS.


So, amp makes things worse, 1 6db attenuator makes things better, and 2 makes the best stations unreceivable. This makes no sense. It almost seems backward.


Any thoughts?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dtv4u_
> *WWOR-DT received its PSIP gear today and the crack tech crew already has it on-line. If you rescan your receivers, you should now be getting 9.1 and 9.2 instead of 38-x. Guide data should also be available. It's being input manually right now, so may not be as complete as what will be available when the listing service is tied into the PSIP computer next week (hopefully!).
> 
> 
> If anyone has problems with this PSIP data, please respond to me via PM. All of the Fox O&O stations will roll out this same system in about a week, so any comments, good or bad, would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanx,
> 
> 
> dtv4u*



I cleared and rescanned my HR10-250 and I lost mapping for 9-1&2 and 11-2(33). I can still tune manually to 33-3 & 38-3.


My Zenith HR230 mapped both WPIX & WWOR appropriately. I'm even getting guide data for both!


My 921 never had any guide problem with either of these. And I got WCBS working again.


Anyone having any luck with the HR10-250?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *
> 
> If I put in a radio shack 10db inline amp at the antenna, I get lower signal strength on all channels with no change in what I can receive.*



Radio Shack preamps have a bad reputation on AVSForum. The usual recommendation is the Channel Master 7775 or 7777.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *So, amp makes things worse, 1 6db attenuator makes things better, and 2 makes the best stations unreceivable. This makes no sense. It almost seems backward.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?*




Well to start with I do not remember what you are measuring with but in any world I have ever been in SNR is NOT better if lower; it is better when higher. Signal compared to noise: bigger difference means more signal and less noise. So if this number is really being presented as SNR (and it is correct) you want it to be higher.


Second the only way a preamp will improve reception in any real sense is if it improves the noise figure of your "system". The system is your receiver and the coax and feed system. Yes the gain of the preamp is part of what helps but not as important as does the preamp have a lower noise floor than your receiver has WITH the coax loss added in. This is a bit long to explain (I will if you want) BUT what it means is a poor preamp is worse than no preamp.


Third other "signals" can cause problems for you. This again could be worse with a poor preamp.


The best place in your system to improve SNR is the antenna.


I keep thinking that in Glen Head with a decent antenna you should NOT be having problems unless you have some kind of interference problem which will be made worse with a preamp in most cases. Keep in mind CBS is quite a bit higher in frequency than the other channels so the problem may only exist there. You may also have a multi-path problem due to the hilly environment.


If I were you I would:


Remove preamp or get a better one

Check entire system for good connections, good coax, etc

watch some analog signals over the antenna and see if anything becomes evident (ghosts, snow, weakness)


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *Radio Shack preamps have a bad reputation on AVSForum. The usual recommendation is the Channel Master 7775 or 7777.*



I can't disagree, but I wasn't certain it would help at all, and needed something I could get locally and easily, at least as a test. It appears the attenuator worked better.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *Well to start with I do not remember what you are measuring with but in any world I have ever been in SNR is NOT better if lower; it is better when higher. Signal compared to noise: bigger difference means more signal and less noise. So if this number is really being presented as SNR (and it is correct) you want it to be higher.*



They say the mind is the first thing to go. Of course you are correct, and I was thinking backwards.


Now, I'm wondering if the Dell Signal Strength indicator is backward as well. On the moitor for my wireless card in my computer, Signal and noise are listed in dBm, and are negative numbers. The more negative, it seems, the lower the signal (or noise level). This must be some sort of logrithmic scale, since SNR is computed in dB, is a positive number, and is the difference (not the division), between the two. If noise is -100dBm, and signal is 60 dBm, then the SNR is reported as 40dB.


So if this is all true and a larger number in the signal strength report is actually worse, then the attenuator is not giving me stronger signals, it is reducing them, and possibly adding noise as well. The amp, OTOH, increased the signal strength. I guess I'll have to try a 7777 and see if that helps. The only thing is, that with no signal at all, I get a signal strength of 0, which would indicate that higher is better.


One question. AS I said, CBS is the only one I can't get with nothing but wires. There is an airconditioner blower unit in the attic just off the site line of the antenna to tower. Is it possible this could be blocking on CBS? Thanks.


----------



## slocko

i am not an expert in these matters, but i thought an attenuator would weaken or attenuate the signal.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...fine:Attenuate 


it's used in situations where you may be too close to the source.


i thought an amplier would not need a definition


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *i am not an expert in these matters, but i thought an attenuator would weaken or attenuate the signal.
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...fine:Attenuate
> 
> 
> it's used in situations where you may be too close to the source.
> 
> 
> i thought an amplier would not need a definition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



That was why I was confused when my signal strength number actually increased when I put on an attenuator, and when down with an amp.


----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *I can't disagree, but I wasn't certain it would help at all, and needed something I could get locally and easily, at least as a test. It appears the attenuator worked better.*



If you're looking for a local distributor of ChannelMaster pre-amps and antennas try:

http://www.lnl.com/ 

LNL Distributors

235 Robbins Lane - Syosset, NY 11791

516-681-7270


Picked up ChannelMaster 4248 antenna and 7777 pre-amp there.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *If you're looking for a local distributor of ChannelMaster pre-amps and antennas try:
> 
> http://www.lnl.com/
> 
> LNL Distributors
> 
> 235 Robbins Lane - Syosset, NY 11791
> 
> 516-681-7270
> 
> 
> Picked up ChannelMaster 4248 antenna and 7777 pre-amp there.*



Thanks!


----------



## monetnj

Yes, I cleared and rescanned with my HR10-250 and I got 11-1, 11-2, 9-1 and 9-2 added to my guide. Previously they were listed as 11-1, 11-2, 38-3 and 38-4. No guide data yet though.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I cleared and rescanned my HR10-250 and I lost mapping for 9-1&2 and 11-2(33). I can still tune manually to 33-3 & 38-3.
> 
> 
> My Zenith HR230 mapped both WPIX & WWOR appropriately. I'm even getting guide data for both!
> 
> 
> My 921 never had any guide problem with either of these. And I got WCBS working again.
> 
> 
> Anyone having any luck with the HR10-250?*


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by monetnj_
> *Yes, I cleared and rescanned with my HR10-250 and I got 11-1, 11-2, 9-1 and 9-2 added to my guide. Previously they were listed as 11-1, 11-2, 38-3 and 38-4. No guide data yet though.*



I even tried changing my local area network and I'm still not getting 9-1 or 11-X(33). What S/W version are you on? Have you had a recent download/call?


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *That was why I was confused when my signal strength number actually increased when I put on an attenuator, and when down with an amp.*



Note that most "signal strength" indicators on DTV receivers are actually indicating either bit error rate or, at best, some combination of actual signal strength and bit error rate. That's why a greater signal level (with an amp) can actually seem to decrease the signal level. What's really happening is that the receiver is being overloaded and the recoverable bit error rate is actually increasing. There is a "sweet spot" for RF levels for any given receiver. The best place to improve the signal is to get the best antenna you can and orient it for optimal reception. Use a good quality coax (RG-6; not RG-59) and properly attached connectors and you shouldn't need an amp for most applications.


Hope this helps,


dtv4u


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dtv4u_
> *Note that most "signal strength" indicators on DTV receivers are actually indicating either bit error rate or, at best, some combination of actual signal strength and bit error rate. That's why a greater signal level (with an amp) can actually seem to decrease the signal level. What's really happening is that the receiver is being overloaded and the recoverable bit error rate is actually increasing. There is a "sweet spot" for RF levels for any given receiver. The best place to improve the signal is to get the best antenna you can and orient it for optimal reception. Use a good quality coax (RG-6; not RG-59) and properly attached connectors and you shouldn't need an amp for most applications.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> 
> dtv4u*




jgrahamiii,


I agree 100% with the above. Especially since you are as close to the ESB as you are. Yes, the AC unit could be a problem but it seems like something else the way you describe it. Everything dtv4u says about coax and antenna and connectors will be much more critical on CBS than on the lower channels. Do you have any RG59 in line? If so throw it out. If you must have the antenna in the attic make sure it is a good one. Try a new position if you can to see if that helps. If you have windows in your attic put the antenna out a window temporarily as a test. You should have good reception but there can be strong signals where you are from many other sources which could make matters worse when you use a pre-amp. Here in western suffolk, 35 miles from ESB I use a pre-amp but for the NY stations it is barely needed. I have an 8 bay bow tie (4228) about 20' off the ground on the roof. I have high ground a mile or so in front of the antenna.



By the way, since so many of the "readings" our consumer products give us can be confusing it is another reason to start simple. Antenna, coax, receiver. Once you get that right you can "fine tune"


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *jgrahamiii,
> 
> 
> I agree 100% with the above. Especially since you are as close to the ESB as you are. Yes, the AC unit could be a problem but it seems like something else the way you describe it. Everything dtv4u says about coax and antenna and connectors will be much more critical on CBS than on the lower channels. Do you have any RG59 in line? If so throw it out. If you must have the antenna in the attic make sure it is a good one. Try a new position if you can to see if that helps. If you have windows in your attic put the antenna out a window temporarily as a test. You should have good reception but there can be strong signals where you are from many other sources which could make matters worse when you use a pre-amp. Here in western suffolk, 35 miles from ESB I use a pre-amp but for the NY stations it is barely needed. I have an 8 bay bow tie (4228) about 20' off the ground on the roof. I have high ground a mile or so in front of the antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, since so many of the "readings" our consumer products give us can be confusing it is another reason to start simple. Antenna, coax, receiver. Once you get that right you can "fine tune"*



Thanks, Netman and dtv4u. I will try all your suggestions. I do have only RG-6 cable in the run. The main "iffy" item in the original setup (no amps or attenuators) is the 300ohm to 75ohm converter at the mast. I've bought a better one and will put it in to see if that helps. Otherwise, there was nothing else other than cable. I only tried the other items when I found I could get everything but CBS, which is supposedly broadcasting with the most power off the converter. I think the next set is to try to reaim and/or move the antenna within the attic. Mirage00 is having the same issues with CBS from 5 miles closer in, but pretty much on a line to the ESB. I wonder if it is something in their signal pattern?


----------



## TVjazzman

I have previously written that since the combiner ( and perhaps since the onset of winter) I have had more DTV channels than I ever had.


But, an interesting thing happened on Saturday.


As I was watching the Jet game and,as the sun went down. I watched my signal for CBS only go from a very very steady 68-70 to a unusable 40-58 (locking and unlocking constantly).


CBS has been mostly steady for me in Rockland County NY (35 miles north) since the combiner work (and before) as it was my only channel for almost a year.


ABC (which I could never lock onto) remains to this day at the 68-70 numbers as do a few others,. NBC has gone that high somedays and other days unavailable.


So, can't imagine that as the sun set on Saturday, as technician was assigned to power down (or lower) any signal equipment. But, as a former CBS employee at their Broadcast Center in NY, anything is possible.


Otherwise, solar propogation?


Can't wait until combiner work is done and WNET-DT is on so that I can properly gauge what to do next,.


Higher antenna? 5th Generation ATSC tuner? etc.etc.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *Mirage00 is having the same issues with CBS from 5 miles closer in, but pretty much on a line to the ESB. I wonder if it is something in their signal pattern?*



At this point one has to wonder. But think positive.


Do you know a model number of your antenna or can you describe it (sorry if you already did)?


----------



## martin21

I am beginning to think atmospheric conditions and/or DT gremlins cause quirks. In fact, I believe that when the sun goes down my reception goes up. I am 42 miles from ESB in CT and watched the entire Jets game with minimal freeze-ups and drop-outs. In fact, CBS is my second most reliable OTA channel, ABC being the best. None of them are there all the time and are not totally reliable even when there.


Martin21


----------



## spankle

I got at least an 8 point jump in signal strength across the board this weekend. I'm in central nj and rarely get NBC,CBS or WPIX but this weekend everthing was strong. I hoped the reports were to be that the ESB was powered up stronger this weekend but I guess it's only atmospheric since nobody else seems to be talking about a boost in power.


I guess there's something to be said for cold/gray/dreary days after all.


----------



## TVjazzman

' speaking of cold dreary days, I find that my reception has been at it's best only when it's one of those sunny days leading into clear nights.


Cold gray dreary has been underperforming for me.


Go figure!


I just checked and CBS is still marginal for me 48-58 and ABC is still solid at 68-70. Tomorrow for fun, it'll change and CBS will be back up and ABC will be maginal. Then, for more fun NBC will kick in as if it was always there, until there is something I want to watch on NBC, in which case, it'll play hide and seek...


Finish the combiner work, then and only then can I begin to figure out my next steps, if any.


oy!!


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT coming in stronger. Not great, but much better than it has been.


Is the station on the combiner? Still awaiting for 7 to respond to my e-mail of last week asking about planned date to move.


Gary


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *WABC-DT coming in stronger. Not great, but much better than it has been.
> 
> 
> Is the station on the combiner? Still awaiting for 7 to respond to my e-mail of last week asking about planned date to move.
> 
> 
> Gary*



They Must be on the Combiner (I live roughly 15 miles from the ESB in the Woodlawn/Yonkers area) My CBS signal dropped from 90 to 80 last week so I went fiddiling with my Attic antenna on saturday to try to get a stronger signal. I was able to get CBS at 90, NBC at 92, Wpix at 92, WWOR at 90. But I couldnt get Fox or ABC above 75-80 on my Directv HR10-250. In fact I have never got ABC above 80 since they started broadcasting again.


I just checked ABC and its now coming in at a very high 95. The strongest of all.

Fox sill is coming in at 75 therefore ABC Must be on the combiner as of today.


I also did a rescan on my HR10-250 to try to get the remapping of WOR to 9-1.

The first time I did it it still couldnt see it and it went to 38-3 again. I then reentered my area information and then did another rescan and it correctly remapped it to 9-1. I havent checked yet but I hope the program info is there


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *At this point one has to wonder. But think positive.
> 
> 
> Do you know a model number of your antenna or can you describe it (sorry if you already did)?*



Having a hard time getting to the RS website, right now, but I believe the model is a Radio Shack 2160. If I remember my names correctly, it is a Yagi Corner type antenna, sor something like that.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *Having a hard time getting to the RS website, right now, but I believe the model is a Radio Shack 2160. If I remember my names correctly, it is a Yagi Corner type antenna, sor something like that.*



Certainly looks directional enough to be busting your chops with aiming. Maybe it is just the direction (the AC could be warping the aim a bit too). When I aim my 8 bay it is SHARP. A few degrees on the rotor make a big difference. There is no way I could have aimed it "by eye" even on the roof.


You can't/don't want to roof mount your antenna?


This is one thing I dislike about attic mounting. It tends to be unpredictable.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *Certainly looks directional enough to be busting your chops with aiming. Maybe it is just the direction (the AC could be warping the aim a bit too). When I aim my 8 bay it is SHARP. A few degrees on the rotor make a big difference. There is no way I could have aimed it "by eye" even on the roof.
> 
> 
> You can't/don't want to roof mount your antenna?
> 
> 
> This is one thing I dislike about attic mounting. It tends to be unpredictable.*



I'll roof mount it if I have to. But if I could just get CBS, I'd have everything. I don't get any pixelation or dropouts on any other stations, so this is a one station problem.


----------



## hphase

I've heard that WWOR has "fixed" their PSIP so that it shows 9-x instead of 38-x (or maybe 38-(x+2)!) My set still shows 38-3 for the HD UPN and 38-4 for their retransmission of FOX5.


My set is a new RCA DLP. Anyone know what type of receiver is buried inside this unit? It's ATSC/NTSC/QAM and works quite well.


Anyone else with this set (or another) also have this problem?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *I've heard that WWOR has "fixed" their PSIP so that it shows 9-x instead of 38-x (or maybe 38-(x+2)!) My set still shows 38-3 for the HD UPN and 38-4 for their retransmission of FOX5.
> 
> 
> My set is a new RCA DLP. Anyone know what type of receiver is buried inside this unit? It's ATSC/NTSC/QAM and works quite well.
> 
> 
> Anyone else with this set (or another) also have this problem?*



Same here with my HR10-250 (ditto for WPIX-DT).


----------



## Digital169

I did a quick search with my RCA DLP and it mapped 38 to 9.1 and 9.2. After the scan I was no longer able to get Fox on 5.1. I have to tune to 44 for Fox. Last night I was still able to get WWOR DT on 38.x. Tonight if I tune to 38 it jumps to 5 Analog. My guess it is a combination of memory in the set and fine tunning of PSIP at the stations.


----------



## Phil Hightech

Hello All, Does anyone have info on WNYE RF ch 24? I could never pick it up. Signal strength was always very low. Now I'm getting a solid 70. I'm not sure if there's anything worth watching, but it is listed as a PBS affiliate.

Anyone else picking this channel up now?


I see now that WNYE is analog CH25 with the digital signal on CH24 being broadcast in 480i. I guess they bumped up the power.


----------



## harican

channel 24 has been on the air for several months now.


They are broadcasting from Brooklyn.


They are no longer a PBS affiliate, so they show mostly their own content.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *My set still shows 38-3 for the HD UPN and 38-4 for their retransmission of FOX5.
> *



Horrors. Haven't been able to tune (and lock in) any new ESB combiner channels only 9 blocks away. (North-facing and tuning building reflections with a Silver Sensor and vintage (


WCBS-DT has always been tunable, and remarkably I once tuned NBC and ABC from the trade tower with this setup. Suspect the ESB signals are being beamed overhead, while the distant trade tower signals bounced just right from a nearby building. -- John


----------



## Taget

I did end up replacing my silver sensor and it worked fine. Weird that just went "bad" like that.


Over here in Staten Island I can really tell the difference with the combiner. I've never received a better signal. On my MyHD card I'm getting CBS at 100% (which I've never seen it do before) and it never goes below the 90s. The rest of the major networks are in the 70s or 80s except for ABC which is in the 50s or 60s and still has an occasional dropout.


I guess it's a good thing I lost the number to the installer I was going to use for an outdoor antenna. Though I'm still tempted to bite the bullet and do so just to improve my lousy analog reception or maybe see if PBS is possible.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Taget_
> *........ or maybe see if PBS is possible.*




I highly doubt if you'll get WNET DT-13 in Staten Island. You stand a pretty good chance of getting PBS out of New Jersey (50-5 from Trenton or 52-5 out of Maplewood.)


----------



## monetnj

No, I haven't had a recent download. My software version is showing as 3.1.5e-01-2-357.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I even tried changing my local area network and I'm still not getting 9-1 or 11-X(33). What S/W version are you on? Have you had a recent download/call?*


----------



## slocko

i got 9-1 and 11-2 on the HD-Tivo as soon as they came on line.


----------



## Maggot

Anyone know of current status of WNET-HD programming transmissions north of NYC?

Here, 35 miles due north of ESB, I have a roof Yagi up 650 ' ASL, elements favor southwards, with CM Titan2 7777 UHF/VHF pre.amp. My ATSC tuner is onboard a new JVC DT100 D-VCR. Best HD reception for me is WLIR- 2 & 3.

I just want NET's programming of PBS-HD. I've waited a long time and can be patient... but I wouldn't want to miss important updates or encouraging news!

The WNET site is not responding to any such questions: nor acknowledgement of concern, nor stroking, nor apology: not one these 6 mo.


Thanks, Dean


----------



## netman

Dean,


WLIW (WLIR is an FM radio station







) is not in the same direction for you as the new york stations so keep that in mind. Other than that WNET is running very low power from an antenna pointed toward NJ so you probably have to wait till they are up on the main antenna. I hope it wont be too long, WLIW is right around the corner from me and the lack of HD from them is a major irritant to me.


Andy


ps: What about NJN? You should get one of their stations. Maybe 51 (I think)


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *What about NJN? You should get one of their stations. Maybe 51 (I think)*



Like Dean, I'm north of the city as well, but only about 20 miles. Problem with NJN is that it's at 260 degrees from my locatoin, and I'm pointed at 220 to maximize reception from the ESB. I did receive a reply from WNET last month, but it was very vague as you can see:


"Thank you for your interest in our High Definition broadcasting.


We are currently broadcasting in High Def on Time Warner channels 713 and 714.


We are High Def over the air on Channels 61.2 and 61.3. Our over the air transmission is in a Southerly direction only. If you are not in a narrow area South to South West of the Empire State Building, you are probably not receiving our signal.


We are continuing to improve the signal and gradually transmit in a 360 Degree radius. Unfortunately we can not currently estimate a date for full service.


Thanks for Writing,


Joe Ramirez

Member & Viewer Relations

Thirteen/WNET 212-560-2888"


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *...I did receive a reply from WNET last month, but it was very vague
> 
> Joe Ramirez
> 
> Member & Viewer Relations
> 
> Thirteen/WNET 212-560-2888"*



Has anyone tried calling this number to press for a better answer? If not, I volunteer.


----------



## Steve L

I was going to call, but figured there was no sense bothering Mr. Ramirez because I believe a previous poster in this thread recently mentioned that he knew it was going to take WNET a few months to get the requisite equipment. It's understandable that a publicly funded station might have difficulty raising the needed money for this.


I've already resigned myself to a March or April launch. If it happens sooner, I'll be pleasantly surprised, but if it doesn't happen till then, at least i won't be too disappointed.


/steve


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *I was going to call, but figured there was no sense bothering Mr. Ramirez because I believe a previous poster in this thread recently mentioned that he knew it was going to take WNET a few months to get the requisite equipment. It's understandable that a publicly funded station might have difficulty raising the needed money for this.
> 
> 
> I've already resigned myself to a March or April launch. If it happens sooner, I'll be pleasantly surprised, but if it doesn't happen till then, at least i won't be too disappointed.
> 
> 
> /steve*



What a breath of fresh air: Someone who preaches patience.


I get WNJN, and they have a PBS-HD subchannel (52-03). It's nice to see those travel shows in HD, or some documentary on Incan Indians in HD, or some concert from someone I've never heard of in HD, but to be honest if I lost the feed for WNJN I wouldn't exactlly light up the switchboard in outrage trying to find out why I lost my signal, why isn't it working, why are they doing this, when are you going to get your signal back up, let me talk to one of your engineers, etc. etc. etc. I really enjoyed PBS maybe 28 years ago, when I was still in diapers and watched Sesame Street on a daily basis. Today I wouldn't miss it if it went off the air.


I would think that with CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, WB, and UPN, that would be enough HD content for the average person. On any given night, you can watch a ton of shows in HD from the major networks. Complaining that you can't get a clear feed from PBS, that they're moving too slow, or that you're going to call the station to complain because you don't like their press release strikes me as over the top, and more a case of wanting something not because you really need it, but because it's there.


I'm not trying to be facetious, but honestly: Is there anyone out there who is THAT hard up for PBS-HD? I'd like to hear from the members...........


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *What a breath of fresh air: Someone who preaches patience.
> 
> 
> I get WNJN, and they have a PBS-HD subchannel (52-03). It's nice to see those travel shows in HD, or some documentary on Incan Indians in HD, or some concert from someone I've never heard of in HD, but to be honest if I lost the feed for WNJN I wouldn't exactlly light up the switchboard in outrage trying to find out why I lost my signal, why isn't it working, why are they doing this, when are you going to get your signal back up, let me talk to one of your engineers, etc. etc. etc. I really enjoyed PBS maybe 28 years ago, when I was still in diapers and watched Sesame Street on a daily basis. Today I wouldn't miss it if it went off the air.*



After LOST ended I actually tuned by 50-5....and caught a special on The Dead Sea and the high concentration of salt in the water.


Kooky stuff.....but interesting nonetheless....


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *After LOST ended I actually tuned by 50-5....and caught a special on The Dead Sea and the high concentration of salt in the water.
> 
> 
> Kooky stuff.....but interesting nonetheless....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Definitely interesting stuff. Don't get me wrong; I tune into WNJN every now and then myself, but my point was this: When NBC was on low power, people complained that they couldn't get it. Now it's on the combiner and looks to be strong. When FOX was on low power, people complained that they couldn't get it. Now it's on the combiner. Pretty much the same for the other major channels as well (CBS, UPN, WB, ABC). It just seems that there's no pacifying some people on this forum. Just when another channel is testing and looks to be ready, the next post is "when is this channel going on the combiner". It seems like nothing that the engineers and crews do at the ESB is good enough; there's always one (or two, or three) individual that has something else to complain about. And this is for free OTA chanels; I can't imagine what it would be like if people were actually paying for these channels.


Let me tell you, for a while, I was not getting NBC, ABC or WB. In a household where the favorite shows are _Law & Order, Monday Night Football and Smallville_ , that pretty much sucked. But I wasn't on this forum asking to have the phone number for this engineer, that station, this guy, that guy, etc. I just figured that there was work being done and when it was done, it was done and I would get my channels back. My calling the station/engneer and hounding him about the fact that I wasn't getting a signal wasn't going to make the work go any faster. Mind you, I think it's useful when some of the people here that have connections speak to their inside people and can share some news with us, but does anyone on this forum actually think that Joe Schmo calling up and pestering an engineer is going to make them snap at attention and work faster and harder than they already are? Does anyone on this forum think that calling WNET and constantly asking them when they are going to improve their signal is going to make them move any faster than they possibly can? I think not.


----------



## Maggot

"I'm not trying to be facetious, but honestly: Is there anyone out there who is THAT hard up for PBS-HD? I'd like to hear from the members."


Well, I guess I'd be less than candid to pretend that I find this attitude very enlightened or praiseworthy. It sounds to me like this: "I don't think you should want what you want: are you so out to lunch that you don't like what I like? want what I want? Is it not obvious: I have good taste and you don't! If you're really interested in dumb stuff, please raise your hand"


Well, my hand is raised. I have no interest in commercial network broadcasts, but for SuperBowl , the Simpsons, and Ebert/Roeper at the Movies I watch nothing at all from those services. I could defend this POV, my tastes... but for heaven's sake: there is no arguing taste, not in the USA.

Otherwise you'd surely dump on folks who eat caviar , or sushi , or raw oysters. I won't rant, but this should be old and familiar ground- even to a young man, and there are no exceptions at all:

de gustibus non disputandum est (apologies to better memories than mine, -but my Latin was from '64!)


----------



## netman

I watch a bit more commercial stuff than Maggot but, yes, I miss my PBS-HD.


-patient netman


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *What a breath of fresh air: Someone who preaches patience.
> 
> 
> I get WNJN, and they have a PBS-HD subchannel (52-03). It's nice to see those travel shows in HD, or some documentary on Incan Indians in HD, or some concert from someone I've never heard of in HD, but to be honest if I lost the feed for WNJN I wouldn't exactlly light up the switchboard in outrage trying to find out why I lost my signal, why isn't it working, why are they doing this, when are you going to get your signal back up, let me talk to one of your engineers, etc. etc. etc. I really enjoyed PBS maybe 28 years ago, when I was still in diapers and watched Sesame Street on a daily basis. Today I wouldn't miss it if it went off the air.
> 
> 
> I would think that with CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, WB, and UPN, that would be enough HD content for the average person. On any given night, you can watch a ton of shows in HD from the major networks. Complaining that you can't get a clear feed from PBS, that they're moving too slow, or that you're going to call the station to complain because you don't like their press release strikes me as over the top, and more a case of wanting something not because you really need it, but because it's there.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to be facetious, but honestly: Is there anyone out there who is THAT hard up for PBS-HD? I'd like to hear from the members...........*



I did not think FOX is part of the combiner project?

PBS-HD is something I want. "Soundstage" alone makes it a must have.

The PBS your talking about is a sister station and has pretty weak programming.


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *I watch a bit more commercial stuff than Maggot but, yes, I miss my PBS-HD.*



Same here. It's killing me that I have to Tivo the new Ken Burns special "Unforgiveable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson" in SD. I'm a fan of specials like this, "American Masters" and "Great Performances".


/steve


----------



## plasmafan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *What a breath of fresh air: Someone who preaches patience.
> 
> 
> I get WNJN, and they have a PBS-HD subchannel (52-03). It's nice to see those travel shows in HD, or some documentary on Incan Indians in HD, or some concert from someone I've never heard of in HD, but to be honest if I lost the feed for WNJN I wouldn't exactlly light up the switchboard in outrage trying to find out why I lost my signal, why isn't it working, why are they doing this, when are you going to get your signal back up, let me talk to one of your engineers, etc. etc. etc. I really enjoyed PBS maybe 28 years ago, when I was still in diapers and watched Sesame Street on a daily basis. Today I wouldn't miss it if it went off the air.
> 
> 
> I would think that with CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, WB, and UPN, that would be enough HD content for the average person. On any given night, you can watch a ton of shows in HD from the major networks. Complaining that you can't get a clear feed from PBS, that they're moving too slow, or that you're going to call the station to complain because you don't like their press release strikes me as over the top, and more a case of wanting something not because you really need it, but because it's there.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to be facetious, but honestly: Is there anyone out there who is THAT hard up for PBS-HD? I'd like to hear from the members...........*



The other side to this coin is that stations (esp PBS) need feedback. So not calling at all is as bad as calling too much. You have to reach a balance.


I miss my NOVA in HD.


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by berniec_
> *First off that antenna is trash, pick up something like this as a start-- http://www.antennasdirect.com/db4_bow.htm
> 
> 
> What part of jersey city are you living in? If your on the western side of Kennedy Blvd getting down to Westside or further West your going to be "iffy" -- if your in the heights you should be good to go, if your down by the waterfront it will depend on what buildings are between you and empire.*



I live in the downtown area, by Van Vorst Park. I'm in a 4 story brownstone, so I estimate the height of the roof is about 50'. From my roof, I do not have a direct view of the ESB, but the buildings that are in the way are on the waterfront, probably over a mile away. I used to have a direct view of the antenna on the WTC, so I will have a view when they complete the Freedom Tower.


The DB4 antenna looks nice. I assume I'd have to get the combiner along with it to work with the HR10-250.


The description says it's a multi-directional antenna, yet the install instructions say to point the elements in the direction of the transmitter. Will I get stations from all directions or should I consider an antenna rotator?


----------



## jcondon

I live in Westchester and get 9-1,9-2 and 11-1, 11-2


I have two HR10-250's and do not get guide data for any of the above channels. I reset both boxes last night and rescanned for OTA stations. On one box I even removed all the OTA stations and did the scan and power cycled. Not a big deal as I am sure it will work itself out but, just curious if anyone with a HR10-250 has guide data on these two stations?


Thanks,

Jim


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *
> 
> I would think that with CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, WB, and UPN, that would be enough HD content for the average person.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to be facetious, but honestly: Is there anyone out there who is THAT hard up for PBS-HD? I'd like to hear from the members...........*



Just who appointed you the official AVS judge of good taste?


I'd trade three of the above for WNET in digital/HD and the PBS HD feed.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *I live in Westchester and get 9-1,9-2 and 11-1, 11-2
> *



I'm surprised to hear that. I'm in Westchester, too, and can't get hide nor hair of WPIX-DT. As for 9-1 (38/WWOR-DT) I've been able to scan it in a couple of times to 38-3, but then it either breaks up or disappears. I'm using the LG LSS3200a DirecTV HD receiver. BTW, how do you clear OTA channels?


----------



## slocko

i guess with the snow falling last night i couldn't get a lock on 7-1 and the Tivo didn't record Lost. American Idol was pixelating really bad that it was unwatchable.


Good thing I had backup season passes on an SD Tivo in another room.


After this experience, I am considering just using the D* feeds instead of OTA. I am thinking the tradeoff in PQ is worth not hassling with an antenna.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *.......just curious if anyone with a HR10-250 has guide data on these two stations?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim*



Jim, I have a different receiver (a Hughes HTL-HD) and do not get guide data for these two stations. I don't believe the data is being sent. Is anyone getting guide data for these two stations using any receiver?


----------



## FrankieB

I also live in Westchester and get 9-1,9-2,11-1,11-2 without much trouble. I don't get any guide data at all for any OTA stations. I have the same Hughes receivers.


Any ideas on how to fix this?


----------



## chrisb3

I have a Sammy 360 and I get no guide data for 9-1/2 11-1/2. But if I put on channel 9, then switch to 9-1, the guide updates itself. Same thing with 11-1.


*edit* I also want my PBSHD. I don't live in the path of the lousy signal WNET sends now and cannot get NJNHD.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *Jim, I have a different receiver (a Hughes HTL-HD) and do not get guide data for these two stations. I don't believe the data is being sent. Is anyone getting guide data for these two stations using any receiver?*



I get guide data info for 11-1, none for 11-2, 9-1 or 9-2. 11-2 shows up on my guide as "local digital", 9-1 as "WWORD" and 9-2 as "WNYW", but no guide data. I have the DISH 811......


----------



## jcondon

Ok thanks for the feed back guys. Seems some get guide data for 11-1 but, not for the other stations.


I tried viewing the guide data for 9 and 11 (from DirecTV) and then looked at 9-1, 9-2, 11-1, and 11-2 nada. The stations are properly listed but, no guide data. Good to know I am not the only one.


My two HR10-250 are of different months. Had one go bad so its not likely they are exactly same box. Both are running what I believe to be the latest software.


Will just have to wait it out and see what happens in the next couple of weeks. I am just happy I get everything but, 13-1 now. I might drop DirecTV locals but, the HR10-250 shows SD from OTA on most stations in a smaller window. I think 11-1 still displays in Wide Screen but, the rest are in a box. I have 4:3 HDTV's This maybe addressed in a future software upgrade.


----------



## jcondon

Last Friday I was able to watch ST Enterprise in HD from 9-1 OTA. It did glitch twice once for about 2 seconds the other time just for a second or less.


Also noticed some audio popping (really faint but, it was there). I do not have Surround Sound FWIW.


But, overall it looked amazing one of the better looking shows in HD. A couple Saturday's ago I recorded and watched the 3 hours of Battle Star Galactica from DirecTV NBC HD feed and it looked ok. No where as impressive as this. Perhaps it was converted from from film or something. Some scenes actually looked SD to me.


I have the hr10-250 and low 90s for strength for 11-1.


----------



## Signalseeker

HELP! Are all the combiner stations now broadcasting? I asked becuase I can not get any station in other than Montclair NJN and Trenton NJN. Before this combiner I used to be able to get all the stations in (except WNBC). I have seen others post losing CBS, WPIX and UPN, and I thought my demise was simply waiting for the combiner to go full power.


Now I am wondering if my amplifier ( CM 7775) died. I reported several months ago that I noticed a couple of VHF stations were appearing on my set, vhf signsals should not be able to pass through the 7775. Perhaps this is a sign that the amp is crapping out?


I tried rescanning the TV, I see the stations and all I get is around 26% signal strength for most of them. Just when I thought all my gremlins were gone!!!


Anybody else experience this with their amps?


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I did not think FOX is part of the combiner project?
> 
> PBS-HD is something I want. "Soundstage" alone makes it a must have.
> 
> The PBS your talking about is a sister station and has pretty weak programming.*



Part of the problem is that the PBS stations DO need feedback. They need to hear that you are clamoring for HD content. If they don't hear it, then they don't realize that maybe it should be a higher priority.


A running joke around some PBS stations when it comes to the HD goes something like "Have you heard anything from our one HD viewer lately?"


If you want more HD programming on any PBS station, call in or write in and make a case for more HD programming on that station.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *American Idol was really unwatchable.
> 
> *



No argument there


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *Like Dean, I'm north of the city as well, but only about 20 miles. Problem with NJN is that it's at 260 degrees from my locatoin, and I'm pointed at 220 to maximize reception from the ESB. I did receive a reply from WNET last month, but it was very vague as you can see:
> 
> 
> "Thank you for your interest in our High Definition broadcasting.
> 
> 
> We are currently broadcasting in High Def on Time Warner channels 713 and 714.
> 
> 
> We are High Def over the air on Channels 61.2 and 61.3. Our over the air transmission is in a Southerly direction only. If you are not in a narrow area South to South West of the Empire State Building, you are probably not receiving our signal.
> 
> 
> We are continuing to improve the signal and gradually transmit in a 360 Degree radius. Unfortunately we can not currently estimate a date for full service.
> 
> 
> Thanks for Writing,
> 
> 
> Joe Ramirez
> 
> Member & Viewer Relations
> 
> Thirteen/WNET 212-560-2888"*



This was a few pages back. It seems worth revisitting by the tone of the last few posts.


----------



## slocko

Remember that 9-1 OTA is uncompressed signal versus D* NBC feed which most likely was compressed by Direct.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *Last Friday I was able to watch ST Enterprise in HD from 9-1 OTA. It did glitch twice once for about 2 seconds the other time just for a second or less.
> 
> 
> Also noticed some audio popping (really faint but, it was there). I do not have Surround Sound FWIW.
> 
> 
> But, overall it looked amazing one of the better looking shows in HD. A couple Saturday's ago I recorded and watched the 3 hours of Battle Star Galactica from DirecTV NBC HD feed and it looked ok. No where as impressive as this. Perhaps it was converted from from film or something. Some scenes actually looked SD to me.
> 
> 
> I have the hr10-250 and low 90s for strength for 11-1.*


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *Part of the problem is that the PBS stations DO need feedback. They need to hear that you are clamoring for HD content. If they don't hear it, then they don't realize that maybe it should be a higher priority.
> 
> 
> A running joke around some PBS stations when it comes to the HD goes something like "Have you heard anything from our one HD viewer lately?"
> 
> 
> If you want more HD programming on any PBS station, call in or write in and make a case for more HD programming on that station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Actually, the point was not about whether PBS should get more HD content; my point was whether bombarding Joe Ramirez, the member relations person at WNET would get WNET on the combiner any faster. As another post indicated, isn't WNET the last station that is scheduled to go on the combiner? And isn't that estimate supposed to be towards the end of the first quarter 2005? It's taken this long to get the other networks on the combiner; PBS does not have the funds that, say, an ABC or NBC does. Their going on the combiner later than everyone else is probably as much monetary as anything else. I could be wrong, but when I think of PBS, I don't think of CEO's rolling around in money wondering how many millions they're going to charge for ad space. I think of exactly what their letters stand for: public broadcast station, probably with a lot less money to allocate towards projects like the combiner that its much-more wealthier counterparts have.


So to clarify, and this is for everyone that attacked me personally with posts like "who appointed you the judge of good taste" and "I have good taste and you don't", who didn't bother to read my follow-up post because they were too busy thinking up REALLY witty gems like those, this is my point: WNET is scheduled to go on the combiner later this quarter. It took stations like ABC and NBC years to go on the combiner, with millions of dollars they could spend on the project. How many people here think that calling WNET and complaining that they can't get a signal or that it's taking too long to get on the combiner going to make them move faster than they already are? It's probably a moot point anyway, because I'm sure a month or two from now when we hit 300 pages, someone will still be asking "has anyone contacted WNET about the combiner lately? We haven't heard anything in two days and I want to find out what the holdup is".......


----------



## jcondon

Steve, I am just outside of White Plains. Alot closer then you are to NYC.


I get low 90s for CBS, NBC, ABC, UPN, WB. I think 90s for Pax too but, they are frequently not broadcasting and don't have HD.


Fox is low 80s


I get a few other stations but, nothing that has HD. I can not get RNN (Out of Rockland?) since my antenna is pointed the wrong way.



I was unable to use that WineGard I got since I wanted to mount it on my Chimney and it was directly over the flue. I had to mount on a specfic spot on my roof to get around a couple of trees on my neighbours lawn. Perhaps now that the combiner is up the trees will not be as big an issue.


I ended up picking up a Square Shooter S1000 Antenna and the Channel Master 7777 preamp. And a cheap 22db line amp at Walmart.


I probably don't even need the preamp and line amp anymore but, I am not climbing up on the roof in the winter to experiment with it. I did need it and the inline amp to get WABC in the 70s so I could watch it.


No idea how to reset the OTA channels in your box. I have a different box.


Slocko, I know about the DirecTV compression. I don't really notice much of a difference on my 32" and 40" Tvs. Maybe when they are more or less done with the combiner I will record / watch from OTA instead of DirecTV's feeds.


If they reair the 3 hours on NBC in HD I will watch it on the OTA instead of DirecTV and see if it looks much better.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *.. because I'm sure a month or two from now when we hit 300 pages, someone will still be asking "has anyone contacted WNET about the combiner lately? We haven't heard anything in two days and I want to find out what the holdup is".......*




You think that will take a whole month or two?!


----------



## monetnj

You might try re-aiming your antenna if it is easily accessible. I know that before the combiner, I could get all the stations (except WPIX), but not all of them at the same time. WCBS and WNYW/WWOR were in one direction and I had to turn the antenna another 15 degrees or so counter-clockwise to get WABC and WNBC. However, in late December, I kept the antenna pointing at WCBS and WNYW/WWOR in anticipation of all stations beaming from the ESB (and thus, in those stations general direction). Lo and behold, this proved to be the case. I get all stations in at least the 80s. This makes me wonder if those people now having trouble getting the stations from the ESB (when they got them before when they were more spread out) have not readjusted their antennas to receive from the new trasmission point. Worth a try at least.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Signalseeker_
> *HELP! Are all the combiner stations now broadcasting? I asked becuase I can not get any station in other than Montclair NJN and Trenton NJN. Before this combiner I used to be able to get all the stations in (except WNBC). I have seen others post losing CBS, WPIX and UPN, and I thought my demise was simply waiting for the combiner to go full power.
> 
> 
> Now I am wondering if my amplifier ( CM 7775) died. I reported several months ago that I noticed a couple of VHF stations were appearing on my set, vhf signsals should not be able to pass through the 7775. Perhaps this is a sign that the amp is crapping out?
> 
> 
> I tried rescanning the TV, I see the stations and all I get is around 26% signal strength for most of them. Just when I thought all my gremlins were gone!!!
> 
> 
> Anybody else experience this with their amps?*


----------



## monetnj

In order to save money, Enterprise is being filmed on HD video this year. It looks a lot smoother this year than last year when it was filmed. Battletar Galactica looks like it is film-based or at least being given the grainy treatment. Based on statements of the producers of Battlestar, this is probably being done to give it a war documentary type feel. Can't wait to see it in HD when Universal HD starts rebroadcasting the SciFi series.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Remember that 9-1 OTA is uncompressed signal versus D* NBC feed which most likely was compressed by Direct.*


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *Actually, the point was not about whether PBS should get more HD content; my point was whether bombarding Joe Ramirez, the member relations person at WNET would get WNET on the combiner any faster. As another post indicated, isn't WNET the last station that is scheduled to go on the combiner? And isn't that estimate supposed to be towards the end of the first quarter 2005? It's taken this long to get the other networks on the combiner; PBS does not have the funds that, say, an ABC or NBC does. Their going on the combiner later than everyone else is probably as much monetary as anything else. I could be wrong, but when I think of PBS, I don't think of CEO's rolling around in money wondering how many millions they're going to charge for ad space. I think of exactly what their letters stand for: public broadcast station, probably with a lot less money to allocate towards projects like the combiner that its much-more wealthier counterparts have.
> 
> 
> So to clarify, and this is for everyone that attacked me personally with posts like "who appointed you the judge of good taste" and "I have good taste and you don't", who didn't bother to read my follow-up post because they were too busy thinking up REALLY witty gems like those, this is my point: WNET is scheduled to go on the combiner later this quarter. It took stations like ABC and NBC years to go on the combiner, with millions of dollars they could spend on the project. How many people here think that calling WNET and complaining that they can't get a signal or that it's taking too long to get on the combiner going to make them move faster than they already are? It's probably a moot point anyway, because I'm sure a month or two from now when we hit 300 pages, someone will still be asking "has anyone contacted WNET about the combiner lately? We haven't heard anything in two days and I want to find out what the holdup is".......*



My reply was in response to the person I replied to and specifically to his last line stating that NJN was a sister station and programming was weak. It had nothing to do with you.


quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by dm145

I did not think FOX is part of the combiner project?

PBS-HD is something I want. "Soundstage" alone makes it a must have.

The PBS your talking about is a sister station and has pretty weak programming.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## RMSko

For SD content, WB seems to have a larger picture than all my other channels (i.e., the side bars are much smaller than with the other channels). Is this typical or is does this have something to do with my TV (Samsung HLP5663)?


Also, are all of the locals that are on the combiner now at full strength?


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *For SD content, WB seems to have a larger picture than all my other channels (i.e., the side bars are much smaller than with the other channels). Is this typical or is does this have something to do with my TV (Samsung HLP5663)?
> 
> *



Rich, it's not your TV as it happens on mine as well. I remember reading something about this here before. They seem to zoom their picture a bit as it cuts off around the perimeter.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *For SD content, WB seems to have a larger picture than all my other channels (i.e., the side bars are much smaller than with the other channels). Is this typical or is does this have something to do with my TV (Samsung HLP5663)?
> 
> 
> Also, are all of the locals that are on the combiner now at full strength?*



Don't know the answer to your second question, but PIX (WB) zooms their picture slightly to avoid some of the black bars on the sides. We all see this. The expense is that there is some loss of preceived resolution and some clipping top and bottom. Also, any zoom mode on your TV or STB designed to handle a 4:3 picture will now "overzoom".


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *
> 
> WNET is scheduled to go on the combiner later this quarter. It took stations like ABC and NBC years to go on the combiner, with millions of dollars they could spend on the project. How many people here think that calling WNET and complaining that they can't get a signal or that it's taking too long to get on the combiner going to make them move faster than they already are?
> *



GRN,


Can you tell us what your source is for the information that WNET will go on the combiner later this quarter?


Actually, it took just DAYS for the commercial stations to go on the combiner, once there was a combiner--the delay having to do with the availability of space at the ESB. Perhaps you weren't around while all this was going on.


I agree with the poster who said that WNET needs our continual prodding to know that it's something important to their larger community. I think they think all Channel 13 watchers do it via cable.


----------



## mw390

This post is concerning all the back and forth going on in regards to WNET. I realize that some of you out there are dying for it to be on HD, others, including myself not so much. As far as not having the dough, I'd like to point out a couple of things about Ch13. Number 1, Marvin Kitman (Newsday TV guy) has been writing for years how they (WNET) have been raising money and pissing it away on things like refurbishing a West Side NY building at a cost that did not sound like peanuts and number 2. When WNET was jockeying to merge with Channel 21 (WLIW) and it was good because they could get their poor brethren on HD sooner and blah blah and we now see how well that has worked. NO HD, just 2 SD channels. So yeah,WNBC and the others are flush with cash, but if they thought they could get away with selling commercials on little 10 inch TVs in black and white they'd do it, and poor little channel 13 may not have the bucks but they go about spending money like the same drunken sailors in the Congress


----------



## mw390

Regarding WPIX-DT, I emailed their guy the other day and he said he'd be posting soon about their progress but to put it succinctly, they are on CH33 24 hrs a day for about a week and they will be going to full power very soon.


----------



## Infominister

Has anyone had reduced signal strength and consequent break-ups on WNYW-DT, Channel 44, lately? I have. First time it's ever happened like that. Maybe they're making the switch over to the combiner?


----------



## DanC-P

Hi,


I'm having a guy install a duplexer on the sat. dish on my roof today so that I can try to use the big old UHF antenna that came with the house to pull in OTA HDTV with my Dish 811 that is in the mail. I have this sinking feeling that I might be wasting my money... The big old antenna (not sure of brand) is on the third floor of a house that faces Propsect Park and has a clear view of the park to the southwest (not a great direction for signals I suppose). My house is on Ocean Ave. has a row of 6-8 story apt. building between it and NYC and the ESB transmitter. Do I stand a chance in hell of getting any HDTV signal? Antennaweb says yes, but with all the buildings around me I have my doubts... I won't get the HDTV receiver for 7 days or so and I just wanted to hear some opinions.


Thanks!


Dan in Prospect Lefferts Gardens


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *Has anyone had reduced signal strength and consequent break-ups on WNYW-DT, Channel 44, lately? I have. First time it's ever happened like that. Maybe they're making the switch over to the combiner?*



FOX is not part of the combiner project. They have their own antenna on the ESB. Maybe when you were watching they had a technical glitch or were doing work on their equipment.


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by berniec_
> 
> First off that antenna is trash, pick up something like this as a start-- http://www.antennasdirect.com/db4_bow.htm
> 
> 
> What part of jersey city are you living in? If your on the western side of Kennedy Blvd getting down to Westside or further West your going to be "iffy" -- if your in the heights you should be good to go, if your down by the waterfront it will depend on what buildings are between you and empire.
> 
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *I live in the downtown area, by Van Vorst Park. I'm in a 4 story brownstone, so I estimate the height of the roof is about 50'. From my roof, I do not have a direct view of the ESB, but the buildings that are in the way are on the waterfront, probably over a mile away. I used to have a direct view of the antenna on the WTC, so I will have a view when they complete the Freedom Tower.
> 
> 
> The DB4 antenna looks nice. I assume I'd have to get the combiner along with it to work with the HR10-250.
> 
> 
> The description says it's a multi-directional antenna, yet the install instructions say to point the elements in the direction of the transmitter. Will I get stations from all directions or should I consider an antenna rotator?*



Can anyone else recommend this antenna?

http://www.antennasdirect.com/db4_bow.htm 


Or is there a comparable Channelmaster or Winegard?


I'm also looking into the 9521A antenna rotator.


Thanks.


----------



## michaelk

Channelmaster 4228 is a 2x2 bowtie. They have a 2 bowtie model too I forget the model number.


But if you're in jersey city I'd take the light rail down to the newport mall and pick up a Silver Sensor at the Sears for 30 bucks first. Try that out- it can sit right on top of your tv or book shelves, whatever and you can move it around all over your house/apartment before spending the time and effort with the 4228. I can get philly from almost 40 miles away with the silver sensor.


If it doesnt work return it to sears and then go through the hassle of getting one of these big monsters shipped to you from someplace online. (I have a 4228 to to get NYC- if I didnt want the NY channels for sports and News, i'd be happy with just hte silver sensor for Philly)


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Can anyone else recommend this antenna?
> 
> http://www.antennasdirect.com/db4_bow.htm
> 
> 
> Or is there a comparable Channelmaster or Winegard?
> 
> 
> I'm also looking into the 9521A antenna rotator.
> 
> 
> Thanks.*





way over priced.


Check out www.lnl.com 


Look at Channel Master


BTW:


4228 is 8 bay


4 bay is 4221


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *way over priced.
> 
> 
> Check out www.lnl.com
> 
> 
> Look at Channel Master
> 
> 
> BTW:
> 
> 
> 4228 is 8 bay
> 
> 
> 4 bay is 4221*



Oh wow, Syosset! I grew up in Plainview. This wouldn't happen to be were the old Lafeyette Electronics used to be, would it?


Looks like the 4228 will only get UHF. The DB4 says it gets VHF/UHF/FM.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Oh wow, Syosset! I grew up in Plainview. This wouldn't happen to be were the old Lafeyette Electronics used to be, would it?
> 
> 
> Looks like the 4228 will only get UHF. The DB4 says it gets VHF/UHF/FM.*



The 4228 is UHF-only but has decent performance in the high VHF frequencies. I get WPIXDT/VHF12 from 30 miles away with a 4228 in my attic connected to a 7777 preamp.


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Oh wow, Syosset! I grew up in Plainview. This wouldn't happen to be were the old Lafeyette Electronics used to be, would it?
> 
> 
> Looks like the 4228 will only get UHF. The DB4 says it gets VHF/UHF/FM.*



No, sorry. That is now a Home Depot. Used to be a K-Mart before that. LNL is on Robbins Lane, south of Jericho, closer to the Expressway.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RMSko_
> *For SD content, WB seems to have a larger picture than all my other channels (i.e., the side bars are much smaller than with the other channels). Is this typical or is does this have something to do with my TV (Samsung HLP5663)?
> 
> 
> Also, are all of the locals that are on the combiner now at full strength?*



Rich,


WPIX uses 14:9 ZOOM for non-HD programming in their digital channel.


----------



## mw390

I have a 4228 that I bought from LNL and am NOT able to use it. I can sell it for a decent price. You can contact me at [email protected] . We can meet somewhere (I am in Levittown, Nassau) and get it to you


----------



## Signalseeker

Thank you Monet. I have a rotator and have tried all different directions with no success. As you mentioned I to noticed the signal shift a couple of months ago but I assumed my antennae got moved by the wind.


Must be my amp. I'll get the 7777 this time.


----------



## stracke

ABC has disappeared for me


I live in Brooklyn (Williamsburg) with line of site to ESB, no obstructions. I'm 2.79 miles away, using a Radio Shack Bow Tie on top of my sir-t351. ABC was never a problem, one of the most reliable stations. Starting about 3 days ago I can't get a signal. On my strength meter (I know, they're unreliable) when I try to get ABC I see 6-7 bars that come and go, it won't lock on. Other commercial stations come in well, some slight adjustment of aerial needed for UPB or WB vs CBS FOX.


Do I need an attenuator (too much signal) or an amp? I get 8 bars on CBS and NBC. Anyone else seeing a change in ABC? Any info at all would be appreciated.


TIA Mark Stracke


----------



## monetnj

You might try taking the amp out of the loop entirely and see what you get. I did that once when my 7777 got fried and it actually improved the stability of a lot of the stations and some of them I was not getting at all improved dramatically. I couldn't get the fringy ones as well of course.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Signalseeker_
> *Thank you Monet. I have a rotator and have tried all different directions with no success. As you mentioned I to noticed the signal shift a couple of months ago but I assumed my antennae got moved by the wind.
> 
> 
> Must be my amp. I'll get the 7777 this time.*


----------



## Gary Quiring

Can someone summarize what is on the combiner now and what their power levels are.


----------



## jsteed

Ok I'm confused it appears that ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, UPN, and WB are the major networks broadcasting in DT. Not all are UHF (WB) are at the same compass heading. Is this expected to change or since the antenna will be in on my roof, Is it that I just better choose which stations I want? I see references to various satelite (Directv and Dish) broadcasts of HDTV yet all I can see on their sites is that CBS is in HD? Am I incorrect or are they also broadcasting HD on other channels via sats. I know that various locals are broadcasting yet the lack the programming that the majors do, so my concern is how to get the locals in HDTV and what is the best solution. I plan for an antenna but it sounds that a cable or satelite may also offer a solution.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *Can someone summarize what is on the combiner now and what their power levels are.*



Don't know about power levels, but it appears that CBS/NBC/WB/UPN are all up and running on the combiner at the ESB.


ABC should also be on the combiner but I'm not positive they have made the move.


WNET should be on the combiner sometime in the first half of '05 (hopefully by the end of 1Q05).


FOX broadcasts off its own antenna on the ESB and is not associated with the combiner project.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrisb3_
> *ABC should also be on the combiner but I'm not positive they have made the move.
> *



I am told that they are but not yet at full power.


----------



## Mach5




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stracke_
> *ABC has disappeared for me
> 
> 
> I live in Brooklyn (Williamsburg) with line of site to ESB, no obstructions. I'm 2.79 miles away, using a Radio Shack Bow Tie on top of my sir-t351. ABC was never a problem, one of the most reliable stations. Starting about 3 days ago I can't get a signal. On my strength meter (I know, they're unreliable) when I try to get ABC I see 6-7 bars that come and go, it won't lock on. Other commercial stations come in well, some slight adjustment of aerial needed for UPB or WB vs CBS FOX.
> 
> 
> Do I need an attenuator (too much signal) or an amp? I get 8 bars on CBS and NBC. Anyone else seeing a change in ABC? Any info at all would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> TIA Mark Stracke*




I live in Lower East Side and have same problem with an outdoor antenna.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrisb3_
> *WNET should be on the combiner sometime in the first half of '05 (hopefully by the end of 1Q05).*



Can you please let us know the source of this information.


----------



## mishagray

I posted this over at TC also, but I thought I would check here...


I had a manaul recording of Smallville on WPIX-DT.


I was checking my TODO list this morning and got this interesting error.


"Manul Recording on Wed 1/26 8:00 pm WPIX-DT


This program will not be recorded because it is no longer in the program guide".



What?


The problem is that since the WPIX-DT feed is still in "test mode" we still HAVE no guide data. So I have been using a manual recording. But if I didn't check, than it wouldn't have recorded.


There may have been some glitch somewhere, but this really looks like some sort of bug.


I deleted and recreated the manual recording, at now it looks fine.


Just warning my neighboors..


(Not sure if this should be in Season Pass warnings, or HD-Tivo group)..


__________________


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Can you please let us know the source of this information.*



Just repeating what has been posted elsewhere in this thread regarding WNET-HD.


----------



## chrisb3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bogney Baux_
> *I am told that they are but not yet at full power.*



I thought ABC had moved but wasn't positive. Thanks.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by chrisb3_
> *Just repeating what has been posted elsewhere in this thread regarding WNET-HD.*



I'm afraid this is a bit circular, and we are simply quoting each other. It seems nobody really knows when WNET will be on the combiner and WNET won't tell us. Too bad!


----------



## pgardyasz

Hello everyone, thanks for all the great posts and advice that I find on AVS forum. It really is a great site. I'm what you call a newbie, and with that said, is there any specific topic for HDTV OTA in North NJ?. The reason I ask is that there are 200+ pages in the NY, NY thread, and sorting though all those posts could be very time consuming. I was thinking perhaps North NJ could have its own thread, because I'm curious what signal strength other users are having in NJ? I'm sure there are enough NJ users that would make the thread useful as I flipped thru many of these pages in this thread. Like I said, i think the web site is one of the best, and I do understand that a lot of hard work goes in to maintaining this thread, but splitting it up could be a really good benefit for everyone involved. I'm sure people in the 5 boroughs aren't really interested in NJ, and vice versa.....


----------



## mishagray




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pgardyasz_
> *Hello everyone, thanks for all the great posts and advice that I find on AVS forum. It really is a great site. I'm what you call a newbie, and with that said, is there any specific topic for HDTV OTA in North NJ?. The reason I ask is that there are 200+ pages in the NY, NY thread, and sorting though all those posts could be very time consuming. I was thinking perhaps North NJ could have its own thread, because I'm curious what signal strength other users are having in NJ? I'm sure there are enough NJ users that would make the thread useful as I flipped thru many of these pages in this thread. Like I said, i think the web site is one of the best, and I do understand that a lot of hard work goes in to maintaining this thread, but splitting it up could be a really good benefit for everyone involved. I'm sure people in the 5 boroughs aren't really interested in NJ, and vice versa.....*



Not sure it really makes sense.


We are all in the NYC DMA. We are all aiming at the same towers.

I think some of the the most frequent posters to this thread are from NJ.


I think I see more Long Island and NJ people in this thread sometimes, than actual Borough residents...


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *I have a 4228 that I bought from LNL and am NOT able to use it. I can sell it for a decent price. You can contact me at [email protected] . We can meet somewhere (I am in Levittown, Nassau) and get it to you*



I'm still leaning towards a UHF/VHF/FM antenna (ChannelMaster 5646 or the DB4), rather than the 4228, but if I decide to go the 4228 route, I'll let you know. My parents are in Bethpage, so picking it up would not be a problem.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mishagray_
> *Not sure it really makes sense.
> 
> 
> We are all in the NYC DMA. We are all aiming at the same towers.
> 
> I think some of the the most frequent posters to this thread are from NJ.
> 
> 
> I think I see more Long Island and NJ people in this thread sometimes, than actual Borough residents...*



I echo this thought. I will add, though, that there is a Central NJ thread which makes sense as we as in the New York as well as Philly viewing area.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mishagray_
> *Not sure it really makes sense.
> 
> 
> We are all in the NYC DMA. We are all aiming at the same towers.
> 
> I think some of the the most frequent posters to this thread are from NJ.
> 
> 
> I think I see more Long Island and NJ people in this thread sometimes, than actual Borough residents...*



Agreed. As for pgardyasz, check our locations and form your judgement based on that.


----------



## pgardyasz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Agreed. As for pgardyasz, check our locations and form your judgment based on that.*



I did check your guys locations, but I didn't want to go through all 4,200 posts. AND mishagray mentioned he sees more NJ or LI people than actual borough residents. I'm not saying to dismantle this thread, but I thought in my own opinion many people would benefit from split threads [NJ, LI, etc] even if we are receiving signals from the same tower. Looks like I'm going to start from page 1 and work my way up. Many thanks to every1 who contributes to this thread!!!


----------



## dan57

pgardyasz: I would suggest going back and reading the posts from December 2004 and this month. This should give you all the important information since the combiner started operation.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's a little after 12 noon, and there's no O-T-A signal from WNYW-DT.


Possibly Fox is ramping up the transmitter to its newly approved level of 990kw - making it the most powerful station in the area. Perfect timing for Super Bowl.


Gary


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pgardyasz_
> *I did check your guys locations, but I didn't want to go through all 4,200 posts. AND mishagray mentioned he sees more NJ or LI people than actual borough residents. I'm not saying to dismantle this thread, but I thought in my own opinion many people would benefit from split threads [NJ, LI, etc] even if we are receiving signals from the same tower. Looks like I'm going to start from page 1 and work my way up. Many thanks to every1 who contributes to this thread!!!*



pgardyasz, what kind of information are you after ? I'm sure we can all help without you reading this gigantic thread.


----------



## Infominister

I've recently had low or disappearing signal strength on WNYW-DT, too. Yes, let's hope it's because they're boosting the signal and not because something is screwed up right before the Superbowl!


----------



## Brainodo

I hope it's (at least) back on/sorted by this evening. I don't want to miss 24.


Glad to know that some others have been having the same problems as me though. Makes me happy that it's not just my set-up/location/technical hamfistedness.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *I echo this thought. I will add, though, that there is a Central NJ thread which makes sense as we as in the New York as well as Philly viewing area.*



there'e also an eastern LI thread for those interested.


----------



## tmtech

I'm not having a problem with fox but ABC isn't tuning on 7-1. I have to enter 45-1 to get it and it doesn't remap it.


Kind of odd... I thought DTV told it that 7-1 can be found on "45". If that's the case how could this happen? Signal strength if fine though I notice when it's testing channel 45 it never says it's WABC-DT like it does for other channels.


Tom


----------



## mw390

Lost channel 7-1 and I cant get anything on 45-1. Think they're doing something


----------



## frankx99

OTA from Glen Ridge NJ


I'm in North Jersey , Glen Ridge NJ, Essex County. I'm a Mets fan and want to get WPIX OTA. Can anyone recommend an installer who would know the right Antenna to use, be able to do a good install at a reasonable price?


I'm currently receiving all my OTA HD from Comcast, but they do not offer WPIX.


thanx for the help.


----------



## rao_naren

Folks,


Up in Northern Westchester NY, 45 miles from ESB, connected a Silver Sensor to Dish 921 and got CBS-DT only (signal level 66 boosted by Radio Shack inline UHF amp to 78) using the Scan DTV option.


While I am in the process of ordering a CM4228, and 7775 Preamp for the attic install, my question is should I have seen any of the other big networks in the scan at low signal or am I going to see them once the CM4228 is installed


Regards

Naren


----------



## Infominister

I would've thought you'd have picked up WABC-DT and maybe even WNYW-DT, too. WNYW's been fooling around with their transmitter the past couple of weeks, so that may explain the problem there. However, WABC-DT is now my strongest signal most of the time, so I would keep trying to scan for either or both of them. I don't know the Dish receiver, but if you can do manual scans for the channels individually you may get lucky.


----------



## JPBV




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frankx99_
> *OTA from Glen Ridge NJ
> 
> 
> I'm in North Jersey , Glen Ridge NJ, Essex County. I'm a Mets fan and want to get WPIX OTA. Can anyone recommend an installer who would know the right Antenna to use, be able to do a good install at a reasonable price?
> 
> 
> I'm currently receiving all my OTA HD from Comcast, but they do not offer WPIX.
> 
> 
> thanx for the help.*



Hey Frank, I'm in Glen Ridge too; according to antennaweb.org, we need a medium directional rooftop antenna for WPIX & NBC, & a small multi-directional for practically everything else. I was getting CBS, FOX & ABC with an indoor Philips antenna I bought from Walmart. When I hooked up to the old-fashioned rooftop antenna that was already on the house, I got the same, but slightly stronger. Subsequent re-scannings have now given me everything except PBS. (Fox has been wavering the last few days, but apparently it has for other folks too.) My point is, you might find you get everything you need with an indoor antenna; maybe try that Silver Sensor that folks here seem to recommend, see what you can pick up, & if it's less than adequate, spring for the rooftop antenna (needless to say, if you have an old one on the roof already, simply hook it up!)


John.


----------



## frankx99

Are you saying that you can get WPIX with the Silver Sensor?


If that's the case I'll pick up a used HD receiver and i will be OK. I don't want to have to install an antenna on my roof if I can avoid it.


----------



## jcondon

I am now getting guide data for 9-1 and 11-1. When I brought up my guide I saw two 9-1's and 9-2's. Neither with guide data. So I went into my HR10-250 to delete the dupes and noticed 11-1 and 11-2 were also duplicated. So I turned on the extra (new) 11-1. And low and behold guide data for 11-1.


Still nothing for 9-1. Went out ran some errands and things and came home and now the 'new' 9-1 had some guide data too. Only a couple days for both. I think out till Saturday for 11-1 and maybe till Thursday for 9-1.

So I was unable to set a season pass for ST Enterprise.


The old channels had * in the name in the Channels I receive list. The new ones do not. So I guess in a couple days this will populate.


My other HR10-250 had both sets of 9-1 and 11-1 when I just checked them one set had guide data the other did not. So I removed the set without data.



Also I too am not seeing any signal on 7-1 but, do see it on 45-1. So whatever they did effected me as well.


For now I use DirecTV's HD channels over the OTA ones till they get a bit more stable.


----------



## Infominister

So, has the signal strength improved on either one?


----------



## JPBV




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frankx99_
> *Are you saying that you can get WPIX with the Silver Sensor?
> 
> 
> If that's the case I'll pick up a used HD receiver and i will be OK. I don't want to have to install an antenna on my roof if I can avoid it.*



No, I've never owned a silver sensor. I was just saying that initially the rooftop antenna wasn't getting me any more stations than the Philips indoor antenna I bought from Walmart with my Sanyo HD-built-in tv. Very slightly higher signal strength, but only CBS, FOX & ABC (this was about 2 or 3 months ago). Resetting my tv to re-scan for HD stations has subsequently brought me what I described above. I returned the indoor antenna, otherwise I'd check it for you to see what it brings in now.


Also, I'm probably in the lowest part of Glen Ridge (admittedly there's not all that much variation), with no direct view of Manhattan; your living room might well be higher than my chimney.


John.


----------



## frankx99

excuse me, I assumed it was a silver sensor because I owned one in the past that worked well. Was your indoor antenna amplified? How is reception on WPIX? As you might be able to guess I am a Mets fan and want to see HD broadcasts come April. I believe we are neighbors considering I live south of Bloomfield Ave also.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *I am now getting guide data for 9-1 and 11-1. When I brought up my guide I saw two 9-1's and 9-2's. Neither with guide data. So I went into my HR10-250 to delete the dupes and noticed 11-1 and 11-2 were also duplicated. So I turned on the extra (new) 11-1. And low and behold guide data for 11-1.
> *



Tune to this channel and then check the OTA signal strength. You may be seeing the channel 12 version. If so, that signal level is much lower than 33. Good luck!


----------



## JPBV




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frankx99_
> *excuse me, I assumed it was a silver sensor because I owned one in the past that worked well. Was your indoor antenna amplified? How is reception on WPIX? As you might be able to guess I am a Mets fan and want to see HD broadcasts come April. I believe we are neighbors considering I live south of Bloomfield Ave also.*



The indoor antenna had a gain button; does that mean it was amplified? (forgive me, I'm kinda new to all this). It was only $25, too; from reviews I've read, the silver sensor should work better, & isn't as ugly.


WPIX comes in great; I can't give you exact numbers because my tv just shows signal strength as a bar varying from weak to strong, but it looks good, & never pixillates. I just hope Fox gets its act together before the Super Bowl!


John.


----------



## SnellKrell

Have faith about Fox getting its act together before the Super Bowl.


As I write this, they're working on stepping up the output to 990kw ERP -

making WNYW-DT the most powerful station in the area!


If you like what you're getting from the Combiner, "you ain't seen nothing yet!"


Gary


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JPBV_
> *Hey Frank, I'm in Glen Ridge too; according to antennaweb.org, we need a medium directional rooftop antenna for WPIX & NBC, & a small multi-directional for practically everything else. I was getting CBS, FOX & ABC with an indoor Philips antenna I bought from Walmart. When I hooked up to the old-fashioned rooftop antenna that was already on the house, I got the same, but slightly stronger. Subsequent re-scannings have now given me everything except PBS. (Fox has been wavering the last few days, but apparently it has for other folks too.) My point is, you might find you get everything you need with an indoor antenna; maybe try that Silver Sensor that folks here seem to recommend, see what you can pick up, & if it's less than adequate, spring for the rooftop antenna (needless to say, if you have an old one on the roof already, simply hook it up!)
> 
> 
> John.*



Hey JBVD, there's a guy from Totowa section of Paterson who's been installing antennas for years. Call information for Tom Fuscaldo. Tell him what you want.



I'm in Little Falls NJ. (15 miles west of ESB) Does anyone know what else is going on for our region? I can't get OTA WLIR. Is it even in HD?


I also never seem to get WPIX and UPN at the same time, but when I do get one or the other the signal is SOLID.


Weak signals used to go crap with wind. I had NO problems with our recent storm. Everything was SOLID.


________________________________________________________


Daily HDTV News
Http://www.hdtvforum.com


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *Hey JBVD, there's a guy from Totowa section of Paterson who's been installing antennas for years. Call information for Tom Fuscaldo. Tell him what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in Little Falls NJ. (15 miles west of ESB) Does anyone know what else is going on for our region? I can't get OTA WLIR. Is it even in HD?
> 
> 
> I also never seem to get WPIX and UPN at the same time, but when I do get one or the other the signal is SOLID.
> 
> 
> Weak signals used to go crap with wind. I had NO problems with our recent storm. Everything was SOLID.
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> Daily HDTV News
> Http://www.hdtvforum.com *



You are only a few miles west of me and I get all the current channels via an indoor antenna. Silver Sensor. I do have to tweak it from time to time.

CBS - always solid

NBC - have to play around to get it solid without losing three other ch's

ABC - was solid until yesterday, will check tonight

FOX - always solid

UPN - pretty good but don't really watch

PIX - same as UPN

PBS - NJN on 50-5 (not WNET) only a couple of nights a week

I also get the non-hd ch's PAX 31-1 and a couple of Spanish ones


WLIW is no longer HD just digital


----------



## jcondon




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *So, has the signal strength improved on either one?*




I didn't check the signal strength as I have been getting low 90s for both 9-1 and 11-1


low 90s for everything but fox. Fox low 80s.


This is on a hr10-250 which goes upto 100 as max


----------



## jcondon




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Tune to this channel and then check the OTA signal strength. You may be seeing the channel 12 version. If so, that signal level is much lower than 33. Good luck!*



I will check when I get home but, seriously doubt I am pulling the channel 12 one. Isn't that VHF as well? My antenna is a Square Shooter which really doesn't pick up VHF too well and I am just over 30 miles from ESB.


But, that may explain why there are two entries in the guide for 11.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *I will check when I get home but, seriously doubt I am pulling the channel 12 one. Isn't that VHF as well? My antenna is a Square Shooter which really doesn't pick up VHF too well and I am just over 30 miles from ESB.
> 
> 
> But, that may explain why there are two entries in the guide for 11.*



I found multiples today when I got home too. Only the new 9-1 was getting guide data. 11-1 is still showing Regular Schedule for me.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I found multiples today when I got home too. Only the new 9-1 was getting guide data. 11-1 is still showing Regular Schedule for me.*



9-1 has titles and descriptions

11-1 shows titles only


----------



## dpiroh

Greetings All:

I have inside information that I can accurately guarantee that WNBC-HD is broadcasting at half power from Empire on the combiner. Personally, I was able to receive WNBC-HD at about an 80 on a scale of 0-125 on Dish Networks 921 receiver the first week of January, but now can no longer get a lock. I live in Rutherford, NJ, about 15 miles West of NYC, and have an attic antenna. I get a 120 from CBS, 110 from FOX & 125 from ABC.


My question is- in the surrounding area, are many forum readers still able to receive WNBC-HD, or are your experiences similar to mine and you either can no longer lock to signal or have a much lower level? I'm going straight to the top with the answers to this question.


Thank you!


----------



## dm145

Is 7-1 up?


dpiroh, 4-1 has been hard to receive of late.

my stb has a horrible OTA meter so I can not compare levels


----------



## mw390

WNBC's signal is as good as it has been since they moved over. WPIX seems a little stronger but WABC has been out since last night when I posted. I assume they're moving over to Empire State. WNYW does seems to be a little stronger than of late


----------



## sangs

I'm not getting 7-1 or 7-2 right now either.


----------



## offandon

I have been a little out of touch for a while due to renovations, but I am noticing the following tonight ... if anyone can tell me if this is normal these days I would appreciate it.


I am getting ABC on 45-1 and it isn't mapping to 7-1. I am getting UPN 9 on 5-2 like I used to but now I get 9-1 UPN 9 and get FOX 5 on 9-2. I am getting PBS on 52-1, 52-2 and 52-5 is HD, but no 52-3 or 52-4 which I was getting yesterday I think.


----------



## PDPnNJ

I checked 7-1 earlier (about 7:30pm) but now it's gone. Watching "NYPD Blue" in SD, argh !


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *I checked 7-1 earlier (about 7:30pm) but now it's gone. Watching "NYPD Blue" in SD, argh !*



I scanned through my HD recording of NYPD Blue and it was fine except that the last 15 minutes were in standard definition. This was on a Hipix computer card.


----------



## SnellKrell

Offandon -


Yes, WABC-TV, for some reason, is now coming through not only on 7.1 and 7.2, but also on 45.1 and 45.2.


WWOR-DT is on the Combiner with its signals mapping as 9.1. and 9.2. 9.2 is a SD transmission of WNYW - Fox 5. Both stations are owned by Fox.


Concerning New Jersey PBS, during prime time, starting at 8 p.m., 52.3 and 52.4 go dark to allow for more bandwidth - this allows 52.5 to transmit High Definition.


Hope this helps and that renovations went well.


Gary


----------



## offandon

Thanks Gary, I appreciate the info ... it's amazing how much can change in a few months. Our living room is just about done with the new plasma in it that will be mounted on the wall this weekend ... that is what I connected my OTA antenna to ... a few months ago before the changes I had the Sammy TS-360 connected to the antenna and things were different.


----------



## jcondon

The last few days I get nothing on 7-1 but, get a steady 90 on my hr10-250 for 45-1


I also checked my signal strength last night for WPIX-DT and was getting 71-78 peeking at 80.


And for WWORDT I was getting 85-88 peeking at 90.


Thought last week I was getting a stronger signal for WPIX-DT


----------



## dswenson

Here's a link to a good article on the combiner...

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...s_Empire.shtml 


Dave


----------



## jcondon

BTW, I am getting WPIX-DT on 33 not 12


----------



## GoldenBoy

I haven't been keeping up with this thread for a few months, so I'm a bit out of the loop on what's been going on. Lat night, I noticed on my HR10-250 that it was showing 9-1 and 9-2 and I assumed that the combiner was up and that UPN had finally gone HD; this was confirmed when I watched _Veronica Mars_ in HD. So, I decided to come back here and find out the latest information.


After reading through a several posts, I see that ABC seems to be down. I checked 7-1 and 7-2 this morning, and sure enough they were black. How long has it been this way? I hope I don't miss _Lost_ and _Alias_ in HD tonight.


I wa also wondering about the status of WNET and WNJN - are they going to move on to the combiner anytime soon? I checked, and I am still not picking up any signal from either of them


One more odd thing - I noticed that I can tune in ABC on 45-1 on the HR10-250, but it is not listed in the 'Channels I Receive' checklist nor is it in the guide. What's that about?


----------



## rao_naren

Firstly, thanks to s2silber and George Thompson for immediate responses and the right guidance.


In Somers NY, 45 miles from ESB Combiner, single Silver Sensor in Attic with RS inline amplifier works with DISH 921 !!! Getting 78-87 on scale of 0-125


Just could not pull WNBC-DT, WPIX-DT (could not lock is more appropriate). Compared CBS-HD feed from E* with OTA, OTA's better !! (no compression)


Back to lurker mode.... LOL


----------



## SnellKrell

WNJN is not involved with the Combiner.


We are all awaiting WNET-DT to get its transmitter installed at the Empire State Building. The hope is to be on the air end of First Quarter?????


Who knows? The station has not revealed any timetable.


On my STB, WABC-DT is coming through on channels 7.1, 7.2, 45.1 and 45.2.


Gary


----------



## dishingout

what a wealth of information in this forum.


I was just woundering if anyone from West Orange, NJ in this forum getting HD OTA signal. I think my location is in one of those problem areas
























I just got a rabitt ear antenna from BB but it didn't work for jack, I got 1 HD channels 71.1 (spanish channel). My next try is the silver sensor from sears. I'm woundering If I should try an outdoor antenna or will it be a waiste of money. I just wish DishNetwrok would carrl HD Locals to save me this pain.


----------



## dan57

I got 7-1 last night, no problems for NYPD Blue. Also got guide information on 9-1. Still no guide info for 11-1. My wish for the coming days or weeks is for guide info for 11-1 and reception for 13 PBS digital. With that, I'll be an OTA-er with nothing left on my my wish list.


----------



## rao_naren

dishingout, just look at 2 posts above your post, there is an answer there that worked for me (thanks to people on this thread) which should work before trying dangerous stunts on the roof.


----------



## HDugan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dishingout_
> *what a wealth of information in this forum.
> 
> 
> I was just woundering if anyone from West Orange, NJ in this forum getting HD OTA signal. I think my location is in one of those problem areas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just got a rabitt ear antenna from BB but it didn't work for jack, I got 1 HD channels 71.1 (spanish channel). My next try is the silver sensor from sears. I'm woundering If I should try an outdoor antenna or will it be a waiste of money. I just wish DishNetwrok would carrl HD Locals to save me this pain.*



I recommend the outdoor antenna. I'm in Little Falls, north of you...kinda the same distance from the ESB. I get everything from a roof antenna with a consistant and quality signal strength.


Honestly, I'm not sure how the signal would be if you're behind South Mountain near Eagle Rock Ave. My guess is that your good proximity with the ESB should work out for you in any regards.


Look around at the locations of some of the posters. I may give you confidence to put up that antenna.


FWIW, I DO get local HDTV provided to me from DirecTV but I block them out because I favor to OTA signal with sub-channels.

___________________________________

Daily HDTV News
http://www.hdtvforum.com


----------



## kcn823

Is anyone getting 7-1 on an HD Tivo? I can get a picture on 45-1, but it doesn't remap to 7-1. Any solutions?, I don't want to have to change all my season passes to Ch86.


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dpiroh_
> *My question is- in the surrounding area, are many forum readers still able to receive WNBC-HD, or are your experiences similar to mine and you either can no longer lock to signal or have a much lower level? I'm going straight to the top with the answers to this question.
> 
> 
> Thank you!*



Not even a sniff in bergen county. No probs with the other combiner networks. I get them rock solid. Nothing at all from NBC. Fox is sporadic as it's always been in my location.


----------



## TVjazzman

 http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...s_Empire.shtml 


This is a recent article with much technical information on the combiner project for those like me hungering for information. dated Jan 19 2005


good reading...



By the way, in Rockland, no ABC-DT since Monday, NBC in one day out the next, CBS very strong in the morning and by evening much lower ( 68-74 on a Toshiba RP with Tuner to 44-58)


TvJazzman


----------



## dturturro

I'm not getting signal on channels 5-1 & 7-1 this evening. Anyone getting these OTA tonight?


----------



## kcn823

No picture on 5-1 all day, but there is also no picture on directv's ch 88. So it must be a problem with Fox.


----------



## SnellKrell

7.1 coming in.


Be patient with 5.1 - they're working on the transmitter - increasing the power to become the Metropolitan area's most powerful station!!!


Check 5.1 later tonight.


Gary


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TVjazzman_
> * http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...s_Empire.shtml
> 
> 
> This is a recent article with much technical information on the combiner project for those like me hungering for information. dated Jan 19 2005
> 
> 
> good reading...
> 
> 
> *



Great read and also brings into focus the enormous technical challenges of the ESB combiner.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNYW-DT back on the air!


Strength is low!


Let's wait to see what happens.


Gary


----------



## SnellKrell

It's now 7:05 p.m., and WNYW-DT is up to its old strength level - at least on my set, in my location.


The signal may not, as of yet, be at full power.


Gary


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by offandon_
> *I have been a little out of touch for a while due to renovations, but I am noticing the following tonight ... if anyone can tell me if this is normal these days I would appreciate it.
> 
> 
> I am getting ABC on 45-1 and it isn't mapping to 7-1. I am getting UPN 9 on 5-2 like I used to but now I get 9-1 UPN 9 and get FOX 5 on 9-2. I am getting PBS on 52-1, 52-2 and 52-5 is HD, but no 52-3 or 52-4 which I was getting yesterday I think.*



This is normal (sorta) for 52. There are five sub-channels for 52. 52-1 through 52-4 run from midnight to 8pm. At 8pm 52-2 and 52-3 are shut down to clear up bandwith for 52-5 which is HD. The HD runs until 12 midnight and then it's cut off again and 52-2 and 52-3 are put back on.


Occaisionally 52-3 or some other channel may go out if an engineer is working on the equipment but otherwise, they should all be running according to the above schedule.


----------



## cpto

I probably missed this in an earlier post, but I'm not sure what the difference is between 11-1 and 11-2, other than 11-2 seems to be in mono, or have no sound, while 11-1 sound tonight seems to be jumping around the front channels.


Neither seems to be HD, although the picture is better than Cablevision's OTA signal.


Thanks.


C


----------



## SnellKrell

11.2 is used for Spanish language soundtracks, when available.


11.1 does broadcast HD, when available.


Gary


----------



## Rhythmx

I am no longer getting abc on 7-1 or 7-2 on my HD Tivo as well, but am getting a signal on 45-1 and 45-2. Must be an ABC issue I am guessing?



Mark


----------



## dm145

I'm getting a black screen on 7-1 and I can not get 45-1.


----------



## Gary Quiring

No SmallVille for me tonight in HD. I tried watching 11-1 but I got way too many picture freezes and splotches. Does WB do 5.1? There was no center talk.


----------



## optonline2001

I have lost the 7-1, 7-2 mapping, but I am also getting short audio dropouts on the 5.1 digital audio for WABC-HD. Is anybody else hearing this problem. It started last night. All of the other NY OTA channel are fine.


Steven


----------



## Anthony in NYC

OK I am now getting the following readings on my HD-Tivo w/ Squareshooter on the roof and a 7777 preamp. Less than 10 miles from ESB.


28 - NBC 90's steady (Improvement due to combiner)

38 - UPN 90's steady (w/guide data - new since combiner)

44 - FOX 90's steady (Improvement not sure why)

45 - ABC 90's steady (no improvement but lost mapping to 7.1)

56 - CBS 90's steady (no Improvement)


33 - WB I have not been able to get a lock on this channel since they broadcast the wizard of Oz and I am perplexed as to why. Anyone have any ideas when the WB will improve.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *I'm getting a black screen on 7-1 and I can not get 45-1.*



The TS360 won't allow you to tune 45-1. It thinks it's a satellite channel. I tried scanning last night and it stopped on channel 45 for a while but it did not add to the guide hence no remap to 7-1. Watching ALIAS in SD was painful.


----------



## Infominister

Any further word on when everyone (besides WNET) will be at full power?


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *The TS360 won't allow you to tune 45-1. It thinks it's a satellite channel. I tried scanning last night and it stopped on channel 45 for a while but it did not add to the guide hence no remap to 7-1. Watching ALIAS in SD was painful.*



Yea, I noticed that it paused on 45 during the scan. I hate the way the 360 handles OTA. (signal meter stinks as well) My DST-3000 would allow you to manually enter a channel without a scan.


----------



## DanC-P

I'm going to try this query again... Do you live in NYC but among tall buildings? If so, what did you do to maximize your OTA reception? I live in a 3 story house in Brooklyn (across the park from park slope) but right next to me is a long row of 6-8 story apt. buildings (right between me and the ESB). Any thoughts on antenna types or pre-amps?


Thanks,


Dan


----------



## SnellKrell

Dan -


I live in Manhattan on the Upper East Side. Although my apartment is on the 22nd floor, I'm surrounded by other buidlings, many of them higher than my apartment; and I have no line of sight to the Empire State Building.


I use a Silver Sensor indoor antenna on a windowsill. The window faces West and I basically point the antenna South or Southwest. I know that most of my reception is by way of multipath (bounce) signals, not direct pick-up.


On a scale of 0-100, my STB's meter usually reads out 52-78 for the Empire State stations. Since I live less than two miles from the stick, I don't use any preamplification.


Dan, it's so difficult and imprecise in applying one person's experiences with another's. A tenant living just nextdoor could have very different results.


I would try a Silver Sensor, one that can be returned. Try it. It's quite amazing, but no magic bullet.


Hope this has helped.


Gary


----------



## rao_naren

DISH 921 OTA input, Silver Sensor in Attic, RS inline Amp, Signal levels consistent around 78-82 on a 0-125 scale, yet get a somewhat grainy picture on a Philips 60" Rear projection, its not crystal clear as in Discovery HD or some HDnet programs via satellite..


Is it that the signal needs to be stronger (near 100s or 100+) or is this as high def as it gets from the combiner... thanks in advance


----------



## Infominister

When it comes to digital reception, signal stength only determines whether you receive and can lock the reception in solidly. Once you've got it locked, there's no quality difference between, say, a 75 percent reading and a 99 reading. The different picture quality you're talking about here has to do with the original video source, cameras used, etc. Even on Discovery HD, for example, one program is going to look better or worse than another.


----------



## rao_naren

so essentially this would mean that a 90 or a 100+ signal strength will be a minimum requirement becuase with any bad weather will just drop my curent 82 down to 50 (hello pixelization and garbage !) True ?


----------



## Infominister

Not necessarily.


----------



## nickvlku

I know this has been asked 100s of times, but I've yet to see a clear answer (and it might have changed.)


I'm getting my HDTV tuner card for my PC tomorrow, so I was hoping to pick up a Silver Sensor... what stores sell them in New York City?


I've checked J&R and the big box store websites (circuit city and best buy) and they don't seem to have it. I can't believe this thing is nowhere to be found in the entire city.


Can anyone point me to the place/location to get one?


Thanks!


----------



## DanC-P

The Zenith Silver Sensor antennas apparently also go by the name "Gemini ZHDTV1". I sent you a private message with more info. Dan


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by nickvlku_
> *I know this has been asked 100s of times, but I've yet to see a clear answer (and it might have changed.)
> 
> 
> I'm getting my HDTV tuner card for my PC tomorrow, so I was hoping to pick up a Silver Sensor... what stores sell them in New York City?
> 
> 
> I've checked J&R and the big box store websites (circuit city and best buy) and they don't seem to have it. I can't believe this thing is nowhere to be found in the entire city.
> 
> 
> Can anyone point me to the place/location to get one?
> 
> 
> Thanks!*



I picked up one at the Sears on Northern Boulevard in Flushing. They have(had) it in stock.


----------



## John Mason

Notice it's sometimes described as the 

Zenith Silver Sensor model ZHDTV1 . This review lists various sources, and even adds a 'Gemini' prefix. -- John


----------



## smile16

Sorry for the silly question in advance.


I live in a condo complex in Queens (north by the water) on the first floor of three floors. I don't subscribe to cable and just get reception through the condo's master rooftop antenna. I only watch broadcast channels anyway. My question. If I buy a TV with a built-in HD tuner, will I get HD reception from the antenna that was probably installed around 1986? I get decent reception now with my old television.


Thanks.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by smile16_
> *Sorry for the silly question in advance.
> 
> 
> I live in a condo complex in Queens (north by the water) on the first floor of three floors. I don't subscribe to cable and just get reception through the condo's master rooftop antenna. I only watch broadcast channels anyway. My question. If I buy a TV with a built-in HD tuner, will I get HD reception from the antenna that was probably installed around 1986. I get decent reception now.
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



Tune to an analog UHF station coming from the ESB (ch 68 should work)and see if you get a ghost free picture. If so, you're probably good to go.


----------



## smile16

Sorry, if you're saying I should turn to channel 68 with my present TV (panasonic CRT from 2000) and if it's ghost free (meaning without snow?), then I should be fine buying a built-in HD tuner TV?


Thanks again.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by smile16_
> *Sorry, if you're saying I should turn to channel 68 with my present TV (panasonic CRT from 2000) and if it's ghost free (meaning without snow?), then I should be fine buying a built-in HD tuner TV?
> 
> 
> Thanks again.*



No. Snow indicates a weak signal. Ghosts are shadowy figures that occupy space right next to the object that is on the TV. Ghosting indicates multipathing.


If you have a small to medium roof-top antenna in Queens signal stregnth should not be an issue. Multipathing, however may be an issue.


68 may be a bad example, try 41 also. If the antenna has been up there for a while it may have moved. Aim it at the ESB for a starting point and see how the signal improves by rotating the antenna.


----------



## smile16

Thanks for the clarification. Really really appreciate it. I will see what 41 looks like but I think that's a channel (Spanish) I receive. Sorry but what's multipathing?


Also, it may be hard for me to move the antenna as I don't think I have the right to do that. But I can check with the condo management.


Thanks again.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by smile16_
> *Thanks for the clarification. Really really appreciate it. I will see what 41 looks like but I think that's a channel (Spanish) I receive. Sorry but what's multipathing?
> 
> 
> Also, it may be hard for me to move the antenna as I don't think I have the right to do that. But I can check with the condo management.
> 
> 
> Thanks again.*



Multipathing in digital signals degrades the signal. Usally rotating the antenna will reduce the problem.


BTW for HR10-250 owners, I see ABC is being mapped on 7-1 again.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by smile16_
> *Sorry but what's multipathing?
> 
> *




Refers to a radio signal that winds up taking two or more paths because the signal is reflected off buildings or other obstructions. Although multipath is a problem with all kinds of radio transmission, ghosts on a TV channel are an example of multipath that you can see with your own eyes


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I see ABC is being mapped on 7-1 again.*



Yes, hopefully is permanent.


----------



## trend1




> Quote:
> This is a recent article with much technical information on the combiner project for those like me hungering for information. dated Jan 19 2005



No wonder it took so long.


Thanks for the post!


Tony


----------



## smile16

Ok, last night I turned to channel 41 and 68 and I see some color snow but wave-like images but hear audio of the program. When I changed channels through TIVO, I just get a black screen.


Not good signs?


----------



## rao_naren

Is WNBC-DT on combiner the problem or is it me that I cannot get a lock on UHF 28 on DISH 921, while all others (WCBS-DT, WABC-DT and WNYW-DT are fine) off the same ESB combiner lock and have signal strength of 78-82


The signal reaches high as 70 for few seconds, then drops to 50 and finally to zero, and then again shoots back to 70... Multipathing ? if so why just one channel...


Can anybody kindly advise...


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC-DT is on the Combiner.


WNYW-DT is not on the Combiner - the station has its own antenna on the Empire State Building.


Gary


----------



## michaelk

Anyone have any information about the YES Network?


I Have D* and I'm hoping it gets included with the HD LIL's coming soon.


I think this is sort of off topic but the YES thread got the kaboosh and we got told to

"Continue the YES discussion in the New York thread, or HD Baseball in general in the Programming forum." 


There's no NY D* thread (that I can find) and I dont want to have to wade through the whole country's baseball offerings just to find out about my yanks. Hopefully we can keep up to date here?


Bueller, Bueller, anyone?


----------



## dm145

Check this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=490500


----------



## jbjbjbjb

Last night for the first time I was able to watch NJN-HD (60% signal strength) on channel 51-5. I was never able to pull it in with my attic mounted RS Yagi which is very directional. The ESB is at 189° and NJN at 214°. Does anyone know if NJN has increased it's signal strength.


----------



## dpiroh

Hi rao_naren...


" cannot lock on WNBC-DT


Is WNBC-DT on combiner the problem or is it me that I cannot get a lock on UHF 28 on DISH 921, while all others (WCBS-DT, WABC-DT and WNYW-DT are fine) off the same ESB combiner lock and have signal strength of 78-82


The signal reaches high as 70 for few seconds, then drops to 50 and finally to zero, and then again shoots back to 70... Multipathing ? if so why just one channel...


Can anybody kindly advise..."


I have the exact same problem...I get good lock on everything else (though lost WNYW since Thursday afternoon- hopefully they're just doing work on it...SuperBowl is coming!)...but NBC is a no go. Same thing on my 921...up to 70-73, then down to the low 50's, and then the cycle repeats. Never get signal, but I lock for a few seconds when it's in the 70's.


----------



## peripheralvision

Thought I might add my response to this (I am about 3 miles from the ESB, in Fort Greene, Brooklyn):


>>>My question is- in the surrounding area, are many forum readers still able to receive WNBC-HD, or are your experiences similar to mine and you either can no longer lock to signal or have a much lower level? I'm going straight to the top with the answers to this question.


I got an NBC signal last night for the first time in a long time--but it only lasted about 30 seconds, and then I saw "Channel not available" over the picture (???) and then it went dark. Very puzzling.

Also, CBS was having trouble--locking up and stuttering--for the first time. ABC, Fox, UPN coming in fine (the three networks I am least likely to watch, Super Bowl notwithstanding). Didn't check PBS.

I'm still adjusting my antenna (Silver Sensor in attic) because my setup is new, so another angle might be called for.


Is it usual to pull in analog stations with the HDTV tuner? I'm getting Fox and WNET as analog--5 and 13--on my antenna.


----------



## jcondon

WPIX 11-1 or 33-1 I can't get a picture on either. I get about 90 points of signal but, no picture since sometime Wed (missed Smallville). I assume they are down and its not me? Or is it? On two different receivers the same thing.


----------



## SnellKrell

Both WWOR-DT (Channel 38) and WPIX-DT (Channel 33) coming in loud and clear.


Gary


----------



## jcondon




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Both WWOR-DT (Channel 38) and WPIX-DT (Channel 33) coming in loud and clear.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Thanks I actually meant 33-1 and 11-1 (I typed the wrong channel).


I get WWOR-DT no problem. I just get a black screen for WPIX. Been like that since Wed sometime. Shows signal strength of a bout 90 when I check too.


Guess I will have to rescan the channels when I get home and see what happens. Monday and Tuesday WPIX was working fine.


----------



## jcondon




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Both WWOR-DT (Channel 38) and WPIX-DT (Channel 33) coming in loud and clear.
> 
> 
> Gary*



I see you are in NYC. Are you getting WPIX on 12 or 33 or both?



Thanks,

Jim


----------



## SnellKrell

Jim -


I can only receive WPIX-DT on Channel 33. The VHF Channel 12 signal

is much too weak to get any reception.


Gary


----------



## jcondon

Ok. I was thinking maybe since you are NYC maybe you were getting WPIX on 12. I will have to mess with it when I get home then. I get signal but, no picture. Was working on Monday and Tuesday.


----------



## SnellKrell

Are you all ready for this?


After going through the birthing pains with the Combiner, now we are faced with problems and questions concerning television transmission from the Freedom Tower.


The following are excerpts from today's New York Times - page B3:


"Will the Spire Survive at the Freedom Tower?"


"David M. Childs of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, the architects of Freedom Tower, has never made a secret of his unhappiness with the spire, which was effectively appended to Skidmore's design. But the current questions about the spire's future do not amount - at least on the face of it - to Round 2 of the celebrated struggle between Mr. Childs and Mr. Libeskind, the master planner for the trade center site.


Rather, they reflect the technical hurdles that the spire poses for the broadcasters that are supposed to share it.


Among the questions the planners are asking themselves are these:


With the anntennas off to one side, would the building itself create too large a shadow for the broadcast signal?


Would the signal be compromised because of the distance the transmission cables have to travel from the central building core to the antennas at the tower's edge?


Assuming that the spire would be nonmetallic to avoid interfering with the broadcast signal, what sort of precedent is there for construction with composite materials on that scale and at that elevation?



All these questions can be answered. And if there are any engineering problems, they can presumably be solved. But it will cost money.


No one at the negotiating table will publicly answer these questions, including Paul Bissonette, president of the Metropolitan Television Alliance. The group, which includes Channels 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13, signed a memorandum of understanding in 2003 with the developer, Larry Silverstein, to install antennas atop the Freedom Tower."


I'm ready to go to the nearest bar and down a few - no, make that many!


Gary


----------



## John Mason

Those getting any UHF stations from a master rooftop antenna are fortunate, IMO. Our coop antenna is still VHF only, and while only 9 blocks from the E.S.B. I still can only pick up CBS reliably with my Silver Sensor and ~year-2000 RPTV HD tuner. Signals, most likely, are simply passing overhead, although they still seem to be tweaking the antennas.


With any UHF master antenna reception, assuming it's not just direct over-the-air, all that's needed is a coax to your tuner; here I need a 300-ohm-to-75-ohm balun transformer just for VHF. The rooftop antenna location, plus a reasonable building amplifier, might deliver lots of HD stations. -- John


----------



## DanC-P

Is it me, or does the antennaweb.org data still calculate channel directions as if the WTC was still the broadcast site?


----------



## mw390

There's a fire about 5 floors below the observation deck. Anybody check to see if

HD signals still coming in?


----------



## Manatus




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *There's a fire about 5 floors below the observation deck. Anybody check to see if
> 
> HD signals still coming in?*



It's a steam leak, not a fire. Everyone's on the air except Fox.


----------



## SnellKrell

I'd like to share some information I received from a very reliable source concerning his on-site Combiner observations, as of today - Not technical measurements:


Full Power: 2, 7 and 9


Partial Power: 4 and 11


Separately, 5, which in not a part of the Combiner project, continues to work on its own transmitter, boosting eventually to its newly authorized power limit of 990kw ERP. Logic and plans would have the station at full power for Super Bowl.


Hope this helps.


Gary


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by smile16_
> *Ok, last night I turned to channel 41 and 68 and I see some color snow but wave-like images but hear audio of the program. When I changed channels through TIVO, I just get a black screen.
> 
> 
> Not good signs?*



It sounds like the antenna is either no good or not oriented. Try a Zenith ( aka Gemini) Silver Sensor. It's an indoor UHF antenna that runs about $25. Well worth the investment.


----------



## jcondon

Ok figured out what the deal is with both my HR10-250s and WPIXDT

As of Wed sometime I was unable to receive 11-1. What has happened is the channel maps were 33 -> 11-1. However now DirecTV has it 12 -> 11-1 so I get nothing. I cleared my channels and did a rescan. Now I have two 11-1's one mapped to 12 and the other 33. The one mapped to 12 has the guide data and the one that is mapped to 33 has the broadcast. Even typing in 33-1 doesn't work as it remaps it to 12.


So at least for now I can watch shows and do manual recordings. Hope they (DirecTV?) fix this soon. It worked fine last week. There is no way for me to set this manually on the box to get around this either.


----------



## tmtech

This isn't a bug it's "normal". WPIX is still in test mode for the transmission from the combiner. If you go back to somewhere near page 176 in this thread you'll see their announcement.


The official broadcast for WPIX is VHF 12. that's what the folks at DTV send for guide data. Currently they do not send data for the test transmission which is on UHF 33. Until WPIX is ready to change over that's what DTV will cover.


Hopefully WPIX will make the change official soon but the ball is in their court to do so.


Tom



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcondon_
> *Ok figured out what the deal is with both my HR10-250s and WPIXDT
> 
> As of Wed sometime I was unable to receive 11-1. What has happened is the channel maps were 33 -> 11-1. However now DirecTV has it 12 -> 11-1 so I get nothing. I cleared my channels and did a rescan. Now I have two 11-1's one mapped to 12 and the other 33. The one mapped to 12 has the guide data and the one that is mapped to 33 has the broadcast. Even typing in 33-1 doesn't work as it remaps it to 12.
> 
> 
> So at least for now I can watch shows and do manual recordings. Hope they (DirecTV?) fix this soon. It worked fine last week. There is no way for me to set this manually on the box to get around this either.*


----------



## jcondon

For about a week though it worked the other way. You would think they would move to channel 33 quickly since virtually no one can receive 12 anyway.


Hope they officially switch soon.


Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## oatman

Hiya, I'm a Philly transplant excited to watch the SB in my new appartment.


I don't really watch TV, My HT setup is strickly for movies, but what the heck...


anyhoo I do NOT have cable TV, so I'm just going for OTA HDTV.


I have a Phillips 34pw850h

which I think is a HDTV ready monitor.


So I need a decoder box and an antenna.


I'm really on a tight budget, so I don't know what to get.


BUT, my biggest question is, can I even do this????


I live at Broadway and 125th street. where Broadway kinda dips into a sink hole and the subway is elevated for only one stop. I live toward RSD so I'm a bit elevated.


I'm on the Third floor of a 6 floor building and my appartment faces the AirShaft. Is there anyway I can get decent reception? Its a sublet rental situation so I don't have many options for locating the antenna.


Please HELP!


Thanks!!!


----------



## Gary Quiring

Last nights broadcast of StarTrek on UPN was flawless. Not one burb or sound issue. The colors on that Andorian were amazing. It will be some treat when the rest of the broadcasters go full power on the combiner.


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jbjbjbjb_
> *Last night for the first time I was able to watch NJN-HD (60% signal strength) on channel 51-5. I was never able to pull it in with my attic mounted RS Yagi which is very directional. The ESB is at 189° and NJN at 214°. Does anyone know if NJN has increased it's signal strength.*



There are plans to increase power on two of the towers but nothing has been increased at this point as far as I know.


----------



## rclong

If you do not have any subscribed service and only want OTA HD then buy a cheap Samsung tuner, the cheapest is the older SIR -T151 or the newer T165. I also set up my home theater for movies but since my front projector is HD I purchased the T151. When a movie is shown in HD it blows away upconverted DVD movies. Cannot wait for the Super Bowl just hope that the finicky FOX will be up at full power


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *
> 
> The official broadcast for WPIX is VHF 12. that's what the folks at DTV send for guide data. Currently they do not send data for the test transmission which is on UHF 33. Until WPIX is ready to change over that's what DTV will cover.
> 
> 
> Hopefully WPIX will make the change official soon but the ball is in their court to do so.
> 
> 
> Tom*



The official channel for WPIX is UHF 33-1 not VHF 12.

VHF 12 was/is a temporary slot until the Combiner is done and it will transmit solely on UHF 33-1


----------



## pgardyasz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *The official channel for WPIX is UHF 33-1 not VHF 12.
> 
> VHF 12 was/is a temporary slot until the Combiner is done and it will transmit solely on UHF 33-1*




Thank you for the channel UHF 33 advice, and to everyone else with their contributions. I'm able to get CBS, FOX, ABC, UPN, and WPIX using a Radio Shack 15-1880 in the attic 26 miles away from ESB. Now to hope for NBC to come in.......


----------



## slocko

Rub it in!!!!!


I don't know what happened, but my indoor antenna can no longer get WWOR







All I recorded was an hour of darkness! To make matters worse, the SD recording also got screwed up. Good thing I have it set to record in the guest room in SD.


I went to Bestbuy today and bought 5 indoor antennas. The only one that was able to pickup WWOR was:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....1&type=product 


Still can't pick up WPIX and WWOR at the same time.


I think I'm going to bite the bullet and just hire a company to mount a rooftop antenna. I'm tired of fiddling with this stuff.





> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *Last nights broadcast of StarTrek on UPN was flawless. Not one burb or sound issue. The colors on that Andorian were amazing. It will be some treat when the rest of the broadcasters go full power on the combiner.*


----------



## bjohn

 http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/...tory.asp?ID=78


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Rub it in!!!!!
> 
> 
> Still can't pick up WPIX and WWOR at the same time.
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to bite the bullet and just hire a company to mount a rooftop antenna. I'm tired of fiddling with this stuff.*



You may be going crazy for no reason. I don't think the WB is full power yet. I would *guess* that if you can get CBS and UPN with no issue the rest on the combiner will also be no problem once they are done.


----------



## jason423

Been lurking around the forums and just wanted to post my experience for anyone in the Morris County area in NJ. I live in Rockaway Township(Wharton is the town) and used a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna purchased from Sears.


Without having even mounted it in the attic yet I have been able to pick up at good strength:


CBS, Fox, ABC, and UPN, as well as a few NJN feeds, Channel 40(I believe its Univision) and local channel 63.


From what I gather WPIX is still not running full power on 33 but I would assume that will work once those issues are settled since its from the same location as everything else from New York.


I was very impressed with the performance of the antenna and would recommend people in the area give it a shot(you can return with no issues) before going crazy with antennas.


----------



## slocko

I think my issue with 9 and 11 may be related more to the frequencies at which the channels broadcast, than power.


I'll try a silver sensor. The terk one that looks just like a silver sensor didn't pick up any channels at all. Of course it was the only one without amplification.


Just got a quote for a rooftop antenna including installation, $399 plus tax.


Ouch!!! I guess I'm going to just give up on Smallville in HD (sorry, rather watch TPOL in HD than Lois Lane). I'm moving in 6 months and I am not going to pay that much for something I can't take with me.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jason423_
> *Been lurking around the forums and just wanted to post my experience for anyone in the Morris County area in NJ. I live in Rockaway Township(Wharton is the town) and used a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna purchased from Sears.
> 
> 
> Without having even mounted it in the attic yet I have been able to pick up at good strength:
> 
> 
> CBS, Fox, ABC, and UPN, as well as a few NJN feeds, Channel 40(I believe its Univision) and local channel 63.
> 
> 
> From what I gather WPIX is still not running full power on 33 but I would assume that will work once those issues are settled since its from the same location as everything else from New York.
> 
> 
> I was very impressed with the performance of the antenna and would recommend people in the area give it a shot(you can return with no issues) before going crazy with antennas.*



How far are you from ESB?


----------



## smile16




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *It sounds like the antenna is either no good or not oriented. Try a Zenith ( aka Gemini) Silver Sensor. It's an indoor UHF antenna that runs about $25. Well worth the investment.*



Thanks for responding dturturro!


So, if I buy the panny TH42PD25U (with built-in tuner), I will have to buy the Zenith Silver Senor antenna too? Or should I just have the condo maintenance people orient the antenna?


----------



## dturturro

The Silver Sensor's only about $25. Go with that.


----------



## smile16




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *The Silver Sensor's only about $25. Go with that.*



Ok. Thanks!


----------



## jason423




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *How far are you from ESB?*



My place is about 35 miles or so from the ESB.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Just got a quote for a rooftop antenna including installation, $399 plus tax.*



I too inquired with a satellite company before deciding to put up my own antenna. IIRC, they wanted $350 (without a rotor/pre-amp) back in January 2003. I decided to just take the plunge and do it myself (actually put 2 different OTA antennas up, but that's a WHOLE 'nother story







).


I may have actually spent upwards of $250 on all the hardware(antenna/rotor/pre-amp/wiring/mounts/masts)....but IMHO it was worth it. Maddening as it was.....I learnt some stuff


----------



## slocko

Okay Jay, whenever you want to learn some more, I will gladly let you practice on my roof


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Okay Jay, whenever you want to learn some more, I will gladly let you practice on my roof
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I only walk on my own roof (or my parents) for insurance purposes of course










I guess what it came down to was: The ONLY way for me to watch OTA HD was for me to get an antenna on my roof. I couldn't see paying someone THAT much money....so I figured....what the hey. I'd do it myself. Some parts were maddening....but overall I can't complain (2 years later now).


I NEVER would have thought I'd put up antennas on my own....until I saw what HD looked like....but I know I'm probably preaching to the choir


----------



## acebreathe

Since last weeks storm I can no longer get a strong lock on either NBC HD or their weather related station. Prior to that signal strength was 80-90% on Dish 811.


----------



## slocko

same here.


this stuff fluctuates a lot.


----------



## icemannyr

WABC-DT sub channel has the message on it now:


----------



## beatles6

Is WPIX-DT at full power? I am in Staten Island and getting a 100 signal on CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX and UPN but WPIX is 55-65.


----------



## SnellKrell

As of this past Friday, 4, 5 and 11 not at full power.


Gary


----------



## stracke

I've gone from having a flickering signal last week on Ch 7 that wouldn't lock in, to absolutely nothing. Not a single bar in the signal strength function. Nothing at all. Is this a Brooklyn thing, or is ABC really off the air completely?


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bjohn_
> * http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/...tory.asp?ID=78 *



thats for the NTSC transmitters for FOX and WNBC not HDTV


----------



## beatles6




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stracke_
> *I've gone from having a flickering signal last week on Ch 7 that wouldn't lock in, to absolutely nothing. Not a single bar in the signal strength function. Nothing at all. Is this a Brooklyn thing, or is ABC really off the air completely?*




That is really strange. I am getting a 100 signal on WABC-DT in Staten Island.


----------



## icemannyr

I am getting 70% from WABC-DT in Northern, NJ.


----------



## TVjazzman

-getting 78% in Rockland County NY for ABC-DT but 44-56% for CBS and 44% for NBC...


CBS always gets worse in the evening but close to 70% the next morning.


Go figure...


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jason423_
> *My place is about 35 miles or so from the ESB.*



Wow, 35 miles out and you're getting good reception from a Silver Sensor? Are you doing anything else?


----------



## trekkerj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Wow, 35 miles out and you're getting good reception from a Silver Sensor? Are you doing anything else?*



I'm in the same vicinity and use a Radio Shack double bowtie inside and get everything perfectly. In our case, it's not the distance, but the altitude and line of sight to the ESB. From where I am, I can see Manhattan from my complex in certain spots, and I'm on a 600 ft hill. It helps a whole lot. A friend of mine is 10 miles closer to the city, but much closer to sea level, and he can't get anything with an indoor antenna.


----------



## ejjiv




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stracke_
> *I've gone from having a flickering signal last week on Ch 7 that wouldn't lock in, to absolutely nothing. Not a single bar in the signal strength function. Nothing at all. Is this a Brooklyn thing, or is ABC really off the air completely?*



I'm still getting ABC-DT in Brooklyn (Clinton Hill), tho' the signal is weaker than it used to be. Down to about three bars now, but still usable.


I'm on a high floor, with an unobstructed, if oblique, view of the ESB. With only a cheap GE set-top antenna, which I place on my windowsill (reception improves dramatically there), I have little trouble receiving all the combiner stations (excepting WNET, of course), plus FOX, NJN, WNYE, PAX, and some Spanish channels.


----------



## jgrahamiii

I've had major problems holding a lock on WNYW (RF44) last night and this morning. It has never been a problem before. Anyone else having this issue?


----------



## GoldenBoy

I've been getting ABC on 7-1 and 7-2 on the HR10-250 sinceat least last Friday night. For whatever reason, I can also still tune it in on 45-1 and 45-2 although those still do not scan into the channel list or appear in the guide.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *I've had major problems holding a lock on WNYW (RF44) last night and this morning. It has never been a problem before. Anyone else having this issue?*



The engineers continue to work on WNYW-DT's upgraded transmitter on the ESB.


The plan is to be at full power in time for the Super Bowl.


Gary


----------



## Paperboy2003

Trekker...are you in Powdermill?


----------



## acebreathe

I'm getting NBC now although still not at full strength, at 4.1 and 4.2. ABC CBS come in full strength. Fox comes and goes. But I am getting it on 5.1 and 9.2. When I punch in 44 on my remote Fox comes in but it says it's 5.1. Strange. Still getting WPIX on 11.0 11.1 and 11.2. NJN is there some nights and gone on others.


----------



## DanC-P

Got a second? Can you do me a favor? I entered my street address on antennaweb.org to try and help me correctly position my antenna for the ESB. When I look at the street level map, the direction it suggests pointing my antenna to receive 44, 28 and the other networks seems way off to me. I think it might be indicating WTC still instead of ESB. Could someone try this with their own street address to confirm this? I'd be very grateful.


Dan


----------



## netman

Two things:


1. You may be correct but if you look at CBS or CBS-DT the bearing should be correct


2. These are MAGNETIC not GEOGRAPHIC headings. A map and a compass will vary (I think about 10 degrees around here).


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *Two things:
> 
> 
> 1. You may be correct but if you look at CBS or CBS-DT the bearing should be correct
> 
> 
> 2. These are MAGNETIC not GEOGRAPHIC headings. A map and a compass will vary (I think about 10 degrees around here).*



Thanks very much for checking this out -- I'm still confused though. When I look at CBS-DT (56) on the map antennaweb provides for my address it appears to be pointing at WTC. I just want to know where to point my antenna...







Dan


P.S. I'm not looking at the compass numbers, I'm just looking at where the lines are pointing to leading away from my home on the street map.


----------



## dswenson

Difference between the magnetic & true heading on east coast is about 14 degrees; subtract that from true to get magnetic.


Using NOAA nautical charts, from Prospect Park Brooklyn to ESB it's 5.2 nm bearing 12 degrees magnetic. From Bay Ridge it's about 7.5 nm bearing 30 degrees.


Dan, what area are you in - I'll recheck it.


Dave


----------



## dswenson

From western Brooklyn (cursor near 86th St & Belt Pky) the bearing to WTC is 28 degrees and to the ESB it's 33 degrees - only 5 degrees difference. I determined this using Maptech Chart Navigator, using a line tool which shows distance & bearing between two points on a map.


Dave


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswenson_
> *From western Brooklyn (cursor near 86th St & Belt Pky) the bearing to WTC is 28 degrees and to the ESB it's 33 degrees - only 5 degrees difference. I determined this using Maptech Chart Navigator, using a line tool which shows distance & bearing between two points on a map.
> 
> 
> Dave*



Thanks for checking on this Dave. I must admit I'm a newbie at this and I was going by my mental impression of where I thought the ESB was in relation to my home. I did some checking on various maps and I think antennaweb is probably right. The degree of separation between WTC and ESB is much slighter than I thought when viewed on a map (see attached). I'm going to go with what antennaweb states and see if that works for me.


Thanks,


Dan


----------



## DanC-P

Attach 2


----------



## DanC-P

attach 3


----------



## michaelk

even if you aim exactly at the direction antennaweb says, you will most likely need to fiddle with the antenna a bit to get the best reception. I'm 40+ miles out but i can still get a signal in a swath of 12or 20 degrees. From as close as you are- I would guess you can get a signal from a similar arc.


Once you aim it in the ballpark- have someone watch the signal meter on your tuner and let you know when you get the highest level as you spin the antenna slowly (just a degree or 2 at a time). Now that everything is on the ESB- if you get one station at it's peak you should theoretically get them all good at the same angle, but just to be sure check each channel and fiddle with the aim a little each time to make sure the same direction gets the best signal for the most channels.


Its moreart than science.


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> *Once you aim it in the ballpark- have someone watch the signal meter on your tuner and let you know when you get the highest level as you spin the antenna slowly (just a degree or 2 at a time).*



Since my wife thinks I'm insane for "wasting" all this time on HDTV and similar gadgets, that would leave my 5-year-old daughter for an assistant. This is going to be an interesting experience... Thanks for your help! Dan


----------



## michaelk

if your tuner makes a one, you can just have your daughter hold the phone to the receiver and then you can listen on a cordless phone or a cell phone when you're on the roof/in the attic.



or tell your firends- no super bowl in HD unless they get off their butts and help!


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Since my wife thinks I'm insane for "wasting" all this time on HDTV and similar gadgets, that would leave my 5-year-old daughter for an assistant. This is going to be an interesting experience... Thanks for your help! Dan*



If you're in Brooklyn you can probably get a Silver Sensor rather than an outdoor antenna.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *If you're in Brooklyn you can probably get a Silver Sensor rather than an outdoor antenna.*



Yup- I'd agree, I can get philly at about 38miles with a silver sensor so definetaly try that. (I assumed the silver sensor didn't work, but we all know what happens when you assume....)


----------



## crazywater

Anyone having any trouble with WABC-DT tonight? I am getting very low signal, the D* feed is fine...Usually my OTA for WABC-DT is very strong...


----------



## jcondon

FWIW, WABC-DT is low 90s (100 is tops) for me now. No idea what it was earlier in the night.


----------



## DanC-P

I couldn't get anything from WCBS last night - zero. Was I alone? Dan


----------



## jcord51

I for one am very happy that the Combiner is finally up. Unfortunately I wish that the stations would get their act together. Channel 4 was one of my best channels, now it's unusable. Channel 5 and 11 are "here today, gone tomorrow". All I want to do is get a reliable orientation for my Wingate antenna. I really don't want to keep going up a roof 30 feet to get a lock. I'm only 8 miles away from the ESB and have these problems, I can only imagine what some of you are going through. Here's a question for you Guys, should I just lock in on Channel 2, since it is the only one at full strength, and just wait for the others to follow suit?


----------



## SnellKrell

Concerning full power - in addition to WCBS-DT, WABC-DT and WWOR-DT are now both transmitting at full power. NBC and PIX , as of last Friday, are still not at 100%.


Even though all of the Combiner stations are using WCBS-DT's antenna, they all transmit at different frequencies. Unless you have totally unobstructed line-of-sight to the Empire State Building, different frequencies will react and interact differently. It's enough to drive a sane person crazy. I'm plagued with multipath reflections, and if I get one station well from the Combiner, I lose a diifferent one. With my indoor Silver Sensor, I'm constantly changing its positioning. And, in a given day, reception can change drastically. I can empathize for those of you using an outdoor antenna.


Additionally, we're awaiting WNET-DT to connect its new transmitter to the Combiner.


Channel 5 is planned to be at full power by Sunday for the Super Bowl.


Wish you well,


Gary


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *I couldn't get anything from WCBS last night - zero. Was I alone? Dan*



No problem for me to get CSI: MIAMI last night at 10 in East Brunswick OTA.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcord51_
> *I for one am very happy that the Combiner is finally up. Unfortunately I wish that the stations would get their act together. Channel 4 was one of my best channels, now it's unusable. Channel 5 and 11 are "here today, gone tomorrow". All I want to do is get a reliable orientation for my Wingate antenna. I really don't want to keep going up a roof 30 feet to get a lock. I'm only 8 miles away from the ESB and have these problems, I can only imagine what some of you are going through. Here's a question for you Guys, should I just lock in on Channel 2, since it is the only one at full strength, and just wait for the others to follow suit?*




Every ESB station (except WNET) comes in fine for me in suffolk. I am 35 miles away from ESB. The stations are fine.


----------



## DanC-P

I'm beginning to think that people, like me, who are very close to the ESB are having more reception problems than people who are 20-30 miles away...


----------



## Anthony in NYC

I agree DanC-P I am less than 10 miles away (in Brooklyn) with a clear line of site and have only received WPIX-HD once since the towers went down. Futhermore, I received better reception on same stations with indoor antenna (Rat Shack double bow-tie) than I do now with a roof top antenna (Square Shooter).


----------



## JPBV




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswenson_
> *From western Brooklyn (cursor near 86th St & Belt Pky) the bearing to WTC is 28 degrees and to the ESB it's 33 degrees - only 5 degrees difference. I determined this using Maptech Chart Navigator, using a line tool which shows distance & bearing between two points on a map.
> 
> 
> Dave*



So if I'm about 15 miles from Manhattan with an outdoor antenna pointing at the old WTC site, I shouldn't worry too much about reorienting in the direction of ESB? I don't feel like getting on my snowy roof before Sunday...Right now I'm getting CBS, NBC, WOR & PIX fine; FOX & ABC not very strong.


Thanks.


John


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *I'm beginning to think that people, like me, who are very close to the ESB are having more reception problems than people who are 20-30 miles away...*



Being very close in to NYC can certainly cause problems but being 35 miles out behind a hill is no bargain either. Both are reception issues that need to be dealt with.


I am not a fan of indoor antennas but an outdoor antenna has its own needs. First off is a good feed line and good connection technique. Since UHF antennas tend to be small I would put a rotor on any rooftop UHF install. For the cost of a modest rotor you could save a ton of time. As someone pointed out you have to deal with a lot of reflections close in and direction of best pickup may be hard to predict. In addition anyone less than 15 miles out should not be playing with preamps as I see mentioned too often.


In the past, stations ran low power "translator" channels for you guys real close in. I guess that is a thing of the past.


----------



## dswenson

John - the difference of 5 degrees I mentioned is because that location is almost due south of both the WTC & ESB. Using an antenna pointed to the old WTC site would only work if you are basically due north or south of them. I would leave it & hope FOX increases power. If Sunday comes & no change then break out the climbing gear!


Dave


----------



## JPBV

Dave, sorry, I should have mentioned that I'm roughly equidistant from both ESB & WTC. High school math is remaining stubbornly buried in the recesses of my brain.


John,


----------



## SnellKrell

Anyone else having a problem with the video on 4.1 and 4.2?


For about the past half-hour or so, no picture - the audio comes through and the PSIP. The DirecTV feed of 4.1 is fine.


Strange!


Gary


----------



## icemannyr

I can't tune in the OTA feed from here but the feed from Cablevision is fine.


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Anyone else having a problem with the video on 4.1 and 4.2?
> 
> 
> For about the past half-hour or so, no picture - the audio comes through and the PSIP. The DirecTV feed of 4.1 is fine.
> 
> 
> Strange!
> 
> 
> Gary*



NBC is coming in fine for me (weak, as usual, but with image and sound). Today is the first day the digital channels are required to follow the PSIS norms -- I'm told that with some receivers you might have to rescan to get certain channels correctly. Just a thought... Dan


----------



## SnellKrell

Boy, is this weird!


I've re-scanned - I've "Re-Set" my Sony SAT HD-300 STB - I've manually inputted Channel 28 and no luck. Every other channel is fine!


As I mentioned above, no video on 4.1 and 4.2. The audio for both channels is from 4.1 - although the PSIP is showing two different programs.


I've also noticed that with the re-scanning etc., 28.3 is now a part of my station list - no picture, the audio is from 4.1 and there's no program information. I also have been blessed with channel 28.4 - no picture - no program information, with audio from NBC's Weather Plus Channel.


As DanC-P mentioned, it's got to be WNBC doing something with the PSIP -

and my STB is having a problem with whatever the station has fed out!


Wow! Just when you thought it was safe to watch HD, O-T-A!


Help!


Gary


----------



## mw390

As of 21:00 EST I am getting channels 28-1 and 28-2 instead of 4-1 and 4-2


----------



## jcondon

I am not getting 4-1 or 4-2 either tonight and they usually come in pretty strong for me. Nothing on 28-1 or 28-2 either


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *As of 21:00 EST I am getting channels 28-1 and 28-2 instead of 4-1 and 4-2*



Me, too. WNBC-DT is all messed up tonight. Now it is on 28-1.


----------



## nickvlku

On my Fusion HDTV3/MCE2005 OTA setup, WNBC-DT is coming up as Weather Plus instead of normal NBC-HD tonight... however, using the dvico software I can tune it in fine, but for some reason MCE2005 is tuning to weatherplus instead...


It was fine last night (watched jay on it.)


Hmm....


----------



## nickvlku

Oh just an update on my silver sensor hunt, I found one in the Sears on Queens Blvd. I checked out a few Circuit Cities and Best Buys and they only had the Terk that looked like the Silver Sensor...


So in case anyone else is looking, Sears got em! (But they're $40, instead of $25 online)


----------



## gnormhurst

My DTC-100 crashes when I tune to Fox 5-1. I have to power-cycle the DTC100 to gain control of it again. Anyone else having this problem? Bad timing, what with the Superbowl coming up....


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by gnormhurst_
> *My DTC-100 crashes when I tune to Fox 5-1. I have to power-cycle the DTC100 to gain control of it again. Anyone else having this problem? Bad timing, what with the Superbowl coming up....*



I'm not having any problem with Fox 5-1 -- in fact it's still my only reliable channel! Good luck for the Super Bowl! Dan


----------



## dan57

I too had audio and no video on NBC DT 4-1 last night.


Query: I still have no progamming guide information on 11-1 WPIX OTA. I thought maybe with the Feb. 1 PSIP deadline yesterday, I would start to get it. Is anyone getting guide infor OTA? I tried a re-scan last night to no avail. By the way, if it matters, I have a Hughes HTL-HD.


----------



## jcondon

I now have 28-3 and 28-4. No guide data. No 28-1 or 28-2. 28-3 and 28-4 are what 4-1 and 4-2 usually are.


Also 11-1 and 11-2 is still all screwy. still maps to 12 instead of 33.


----------



## SnellKrell

Dan -


I feel a bit better now that unfortunately you're sharing the same problem I'm having with no video.


Are you getting video this morning?


You're correct about 11.1 - surprised that Tribune hasn't gotten its act together.


Gary


----------



## dan57

Gary, Unfortunately, I'm sitting in my office and can't play with my TV till I get home this evening.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *I too had audio and no video on NBC DT 4-1 last night.
> 
> 
> Query: I still have no progamming guide information on 11-1 WPIX OTA. I thought maybe with the Feb. 1 PSIP deadline yesterday, I would start to get it. Is anyone getting guide infor OTA? I tried a re-scan last night to no avail. By the way, if it matters, I have a Hughes HTL-HD.*



I have audio/video on 4-1 and 4-2 (as of this AM) on my E86 and DTC 210....BUT it took LONGER THAN USUAL for audio/video to come in. My wife actually thought the boxes were messed up. By longer than usual I mean 10 seconds or so to get video. I'm guessing that there is some sort of PSIP or guide data that's gone a bit wacky on some STB's??


Weird.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, my STB is back to normal - 4.1 and 4.2 both have audio and video. No more mapping on 28.3 and 28.4.


Called Channel 4 engineering this morning, and the engineer with whom I spoke had just come in, but had already heard there were problems. His counterparts at CNBC had forwarded "Forum" e-mails with complaints.

I imagine that the "Forum" was this one. I'm amazed that in took the flaghsip station of NBC this long, more than 12 hours, to figure out what went wrong!


Additionally, WNBC-DT is not at full power, and the engineer on the phone had no information when the station would be at 100%. He did mention that there have been a number of calls about poor reception from people who were happy with the old transmission location - 30 Rock.


Gary


----------



## jcord51

Gary Press, what's their number? I agree with you that the old transmission location WAS better.


----------



## mw390

4-1 and 4-2 are back (20:00 EST)


----------



## mondesign

Is anybody having problems with 7.1 and 7.2? They must have been updating ther PSIP data all day today, as I have had to rescan the channels on my Samsung STBs several times. I have been having trouble with them for several weeks, causing lockups and rebooting. No trouble with any of the other NYC DTV stations.


----------



## cpto

Well, on my set at least, there was no question that the sharpest picture was coming from WCBS. Fox, for some reason, seemed to be broadcasting NTSC quality on their 5.1


However, WCBS had _major_ audio problems - 10 to 15 dB higher than the other stations and making noticeable jumps in volume.


C


----------



## mw390

I've ALWAYS been getting WCBS and channel 68-1 louder than the others. I have to turn the sound down every time


----------



## Gary Quiring

I tried watching SmallVille again on 11-1 and no go. I almost thought it was good. The first 40 minutes was almost perfect and then the last 20 minutes was unwatchable with constant freezes. When is the WB going full power?


----------



## icemannyr

I get no signal OTA or on Cable TV. I guess the ESB work is not 100% done yet.


----------



## HDntheCity

it appears all the stations on the combiner shut down around midnight. nothing OTA but FOX. no NBC-DT or CBS-DT on D* either. repair work on the combiner?


jim


----------



## nickvlku

Same here... NO DT channels except for Fox. Thought it was my antenna for a second. Must be doing some late night repairs.


----------



## Deadkenr

Hi, I am going to be setting up (or attempting to, at least) a HTPC later this morning. I just got a ATI HDTV Wonder yesterday, and will be trying to get any channels I can with its included antenna at first.


I live in Lindenhurst (Long Island, South Shore, just over the Nassau/Suffolk border). I have checked antennaweb.org and I seem to live about 30 Miles from most (5) antennas (Empire State Building, I guess). There seem to be (2) more on almost the same trajectory about a mile further (New Jersey Stations). I seem to be about 8 Miles away from PBS in Garden City, and then 30 Miles away from (2) channels in Riverhead/Smithtown.


Whew... With any luck I am hoping to get 10 HD stations... Is this unreasonable to hope for with the little indoor antenna included with the HDTV Wonder? Any suggestions for an attic mounted antenna? I have just started looking at the ones at Radio Shack. I don't want to 'put the cart before the horse' though.


Any thoughts on what I could/should expect would be greatly appreciated. I am glad that I read that some channels seem to be down... I might have been ripping my hair out if they were still out and I thought it was something that I was doing wrong.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, those people from Channel 4 are at it again!!!!


No video on 4.1 and 4.2. Same audio on 4.1 and 4.2.

28.3 and 28.4 have reappeared - no video, but separate audio - No program information.


Unlike the Tuesday/Wednesday problems, the signal this morning has been extremely low.


No other station is the world's largest media market has had so much trouble!


General Sarnoff is "spinning" again.


I hope the guys at CNBC pass this along to 30 Rock.


Gary


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Deadkenr_
> *Hi, I am going to be setting up (or attempting to, at least) a HTPC later this morning. I just got a ATI HDTV Wonder yesterday, and will be trying to get any channels I can with its included antenna at first.
> 
> 
> I live in Lindenhurst (Long Island, South Shore, just over the Nassau/Suffolk border). I have checked antennaweb.org and I seem to live about 30 Miles from most (5) antennas (Empire State Building, I guess). There seem to be (2) more on almost the same trajectory about a mile further (New Jersey Stations). I seem to be about 8 Miles away from PBS in Garden City, and then 30 Miles away from (2) channels in Riverhead/Smithtown.
> 
> 
> Whew... With any luck I am hoping to get 10 HD stations... Is this unreasonable to hope for with the little indoor antenna included with the HDTV Wonder? Any suggestions for an attic mounted antenna? I have just started looking at the ones at Radio Shack. I don't want to 'put the cart before the horse' though.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on what I could/should expect would be greatly appreciated. I am glad that I read that some channels seem to be down... I might have been ripping my hair out if they were still out and I thought it was something that I was doing wrong.*



I think the most honest answer to your question is -- you just have to try and see. Predicting what you will be able to pick up is impossible. In my case antennaweb overestimated what Iwould be able to pick up. As far as an attic mounted antenna many people have had great luck with the Zenith (or Gemini) Silver Sensor antenna which can be found online for around $25. Good luck! Dan


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *I've ALWAYS been getting WCBS and channel 68-1 louder than the others. I have to turn the sound down every time*



WCBS-DT was also significantly louder on my Dishnetwork satellite feed -- it's not just an OTA problem. Dan


----------



## dpiroh

Greetings All:

Some observations regarding the State of the Union last night in high-def OTA...viewing on a Panasonic 32" Tau with a Dish 921 receiver, living approx. 20 miles from NYC, ABC had the best looking picture, followed by NBC. I noticed some artifacting on Bush's red tie on NBC which was absent from the ABC feed. And let me note here that I finally received WNBC-DT again...signal level was mid 90~110 on the 921's meter...I do believe WNBC has increased power from a few days ago. I rate CBS third...it looked a bit grainy, sort of like low signal to noise, than ABC & NBC. FOX was the worst...appeared to be 480i upconverted...was the worst I ever saw FOX look...hope they cover the Super Bowl better!


----------



## DanC-P

An engineer from WCBS told me (before the speech) that their coverage was not going to be HD -- he said it would be upconverted. It looked pretty good to me. I just wrote him again asking him if it was really upconverted 480i. Dan


----------



## DanC-P

Do you get WNJN? If so, on what channel?


I'm new to OTA HD. When I first hooked up my old roof antenna the only OTA signals I got were 4-5 WNJN PBS stations/sub-stations. They came in very strong and had some interesting HD shows (Violent Hawaii, a show on volcanoes, a show on a train museum etc.) although they repeated night after night. I bought a Silver Sensor and starting using that instead of the roof antenna (with the SS I get CBS, NBC, FOX and UPN). Now when I hook up the roof antenna I can no longer find the WNJN signal -- I'm not sure what channel I was receiving it on in the first place. I found one reference source that says it should be on channel 54 but I get zip when I tune there. Help!


----------



## SnellKrell

I use O-T-A Channel 51 - which remaps to:


50.1

50.2

50.3

50.4

50.5

52.1

52.4

52.5


on my STB.


Hope this helps,


Gary


----------



## dpiroh

Hi Dan...

I can only get WNJN if I rotate my antenna about 160 degrees (thus losing site to Empire & losing all the network channels). This was about a year ago, when I first started hooking everything up. I'm afraid to try it now for fear of losing the 'sweet spot' I am now in, receiving all the other channels perfectly!


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dpiroh_
> *Hi Dan...
> 
> I can only get WNJN if I rotate my antenna about 160 degrees (thus losing site to Empire & losing all the network channels). This was about a year ago, when I first started hooking everything up. I'm afraid to try it now for fear of losing the 'sweet spot' I am now in, receiving all the other channels perfectly!*



Yeah, the old rusty antenna on my steep roof is pointing due south and I haven't built up the courage to try and change its direction. WNJN was the only channel it picked up (zero from ESB). That's why I switched to the silver sensor which gets the other networks but not WNJN. I'll try Gary's numbers tonight to see if old bessy can get the signal once again. Thank you both for your replies! Dan


----------



## SnellKrell

The General has stopped "spinning" - at least for the moment!


4.1 and 4.2 are back to "normal."


Signal stregth/quality is only fair. Still waiting for 100% power.


28.3 and 28.4 have disappeared.


We'll see how long this will last!


Gary


----------



## martin21

I am in Wilton, Ct. 42 miles from Manhattan with a Winegard bi-directional (bat wing so-called). Per antennaweb.org the direction for NYC stations is 231 degrees. The original installation had the antenna pointed 180 degrees where I received WLIW 21-2 and 21-3 solid but no HD, ABC 7-1 and 7-2 the best HD, CBS at 2-1 pretty steady and Fox and UPN on 5-1 and 5-2 intermittenly. I had the antenna repositioned yesterday to the 231 degree position. The results are weird - ABC 7-1 and 7-2 totally gone, Fox and UPN on 5-1 and 5-2 no longer viewable but with some signal, UPN and Fox on 9-1 and 9-2 solid but Fox is SD not HD. Newly received is WPIX 11-1 and 11-2 solid and ABC out of New Haven solid on 8-1 and 8-2. WLIW 21-2 and 21-3 remains solid. No NBC on 4-1 and 4-2 in both cases.


Anybody have any ideas on why the total loss of ABC 7-1 and 7-2 and the effective loss of Fox and UPN on 5-1 and 5-2. I have two receivers and the result is the same on both (a Voom Motorola and a Directv Hughes).


Any help would be appreciated.


Martin21


----------



## Johnr0836

Don't forget that antennaweb directions are magnetic and not "true".


----------



## jbjbjbjb

Last week for the first time I picked up WNJN (52-5) while pointed at the ESB on an attic RS 15-2160 UHF Yagi. Signal was strong at 63%. This week no WNJN signal detected but no lock on a Dish 811. I think last weeks sinnal was stronger. Same with 4-1.


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jbjbjbjb_
> *Last week for the first time I picked up WNJN (52-5) while pointed at the ESB on an attic RS 15-2160 UHF Yagi. Signal was strong at 63%. This week no WNJN signal detected but no lock on a Dish 811. I think last weeks sinnal was stronger. Same with 4-1.*



I wrote to WNJN and got an initial request for more info from me. If they get back to me with anything interesting regarding their signal strength etc. I'll post it here. Dan


----------



## dswenson

Deadkenr...


I'm next door in Amity Harbor. When I first got the TV I attached an old UHF loop antena just to see what I could receive. I was able to get CBS (2.1 or 46). What a pleasent suprise! I then went to radioshack and got the 15-2160 and mounted in the atic. Initially I only got two more channels. Last week I rescanned, and am now getting CBS, FOX, WLIW and a few others. Still no NBC or WPIX, but I understand the transmission power may increase soon.


Does your TV have an internal QAM tuner? With basic cable I'm getting about 10 digital stations from Cablevision. But that's another story.


Dave


----------



## Deadkenr




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *I think the most honest answer to your question is -- you just have to try and see. Predicting what you will be able to pick up is impossible. In my case antennaweb overestimated what Iwould be able to pick up. As far as an attic mounted antenna many people have had great luck with the Zenith (or Gemini) Silver Sensor antenna which can be found online for around $25. Good luck! Dan*



That looks to be VERY much the same one that ATI included. I am (currently) beating my head against the wall with network problems. As soon as I get those straightened out, I will get to the HDTV stuff. Thanks for the input.


Anybody using a 'booster' on one of those indoor "Silver Sensor" antennas? Does it make a big difference for you?


----------



## rao_naren

you mean inline UHF amp, then yes I am using Rat Shack UHF inline on Silver sensor, works great...


Naren


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Johnr0836_
> *Don't forget that antennaweb directions are magnetic and not "true".*



If I use a compass, which I did, I am using magnetic, correct?


Martin21


----------



## dswenson

Yes, magnetic.


----------



## DanC-P

Is anyone currently receiving WNJW? I can't get it










Thanks,


Dan


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Is anyone currently receiving WNJW? I can't get it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Dan*



Who is WNJW ? Or you meant WNYW ?


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Who is WNJW ? Or you meant WNYW ?*



Sorry, I actually meant WNJN in Jersey.


----------



## GoldenBoy

I hate to harp on this, but, is there any word on WNET going to the combiner?


----------



## decepticonleader

Good afternoon, everyone. I am new to OTA HDTV, so please excuse a few questions I have. I live in Midtown Manhattan, near the BMW Building and CBS, so could I use an indoor antenna to get OTA HD signals? If that's possible, what antenna(s) do you recommend? (If you can reccomend an antenna, of course).


Thanks for any assistance you can give!


----------



## HDntheCity

hi decepticon


most people on this forum would probably point you to the Zenith/Gemini ZHDTV-1. it sounds like you live within 2-3 mi. of the ESB. multipath is always an issue and the Zenith is reputed to be very good at dealing with it. i live just off 9th Ave. behind the Port Authority and i can get pretty much every signal from the combiner plus FOX.

you can find this antenna at Sears or on Amazon.com. its 1/3 cheaper on Amazon but returning it if it doesn't do the job might be more difficult. good luck & tell us more about your system.


jim


----------



## SnellKrell

Unfortunately, you'll never know until you try one.


It's all location, location and location!


Add in, a lot of luck.


Try the Silver Sensor. See if you can return it if it doesn't work for you.


Gary


----------



## HDntheCity

BTW decepticon the Silver Sensor is the same antenna i just recommended. it's the common name for it. i used the model # in case you did an Internet search. and Gary's right-trial and error and then more trial. again good luck!!


jim


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *I hate to harp on this, but, is there any word on WNET going to the combiner?*



WNET just doesnt seem to care if they provide a good strong sig for the surrounding area. Im not watching or contributing any cash to WNET until they provide a strong sig.


----------



## SnellKrell

Come on Vinny, so many of us are frustrated by not being able to receive an HD signal from 13.


But please put things in perspective.


WCBS is owned by Viacom

WNBC is owned by General Electric

WABC is owned by Disney

WNYW and WWOR are owned by News Corp.

WPIX is owned by the Tribune Company


Take into consideration the lowering of funding by Washington, Trenton

(WNET is officially a New Jersey station) Corporations, Foundations and after the market went south, the smaller contributions by "Viewers Like You," you'll begin to appreciate the huge financial hardships that all public stations have had to face.


It's true that there was insurance to cover part of the loss of the World Trade Center transmitter and antenna; but there was also a mandate that WNET's first obligation was to serve its home city - Newark, New Jersey!


Yes, the antenna atop WNET's offices and studios on West 33rd Street is a joke - but what do you expect?


No deep pocketed corporate parent to make the needed investment to happen rapidly. Also please remember that General Electric chose to put its antenna atop the GE Building at 30 Rock - not on Conde Nast, not of the Empire State Building until WCBS made its antenna available for the Combiner. Also, GE controls "real estate" of its own on the Empire State Buidling for the WNBC analogue signal - and deep pocketed G.E. chose to defer offering a "good" signal until now.


Yes, I can't wait. But we're dealing with a "relatively" poor cousin who is trying, and will scrape things together to get you its signal.


Support 13, don't damn them!


Gary


----------



## slocko









after all this trouble to get Enterprise in HD, and they go ahead and cancel it.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinnyv07_
> *WNET just doesnt seem to care if they provide a good strong sig for the surrounding area. Im not watching or contributing any cash to WNET until they provide a strong sig.*



I called WNET a few weeks back and the rep I spoke to said there was no firm time-line in place. Some on this site have speculated that it will be sometime at the end of Q1.


The rep seemed happy to hear that people were interested in OTA transmission. Call the station, make your voice heard. If they don't know they have an audience they will not be in a rush to get the funds for the project.


Who knows, maybe if enough people call they'll figure out that a pledge drive for HD might just net them the cash they need?


I'd contribute if I thought it would make a difference.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

I'm watching Bernie Mac, and WNYW seems to have changed their bug on HD broadcasts. They got rid of the red, and the white isn't nearly as bright, and is somewhat translucent. It's _much_ better than the old bug, which was far too distracting.


----------



## zoepup

I was wondering why I have problems receiving CBS on both my D* Samsung HD recevier (OTA.. not thru satellite) and my Pioneer built in HD receiver OTA.. The rest of my OTA locals seem to come in fine and besides the frequency assignment everything appears fine. The OTA I use is the channelmaster that D* installs with their HD installs. Is CBS that hard to pick up? I live in Norhtern NJ.




here is the info from antennaweb

FOX 199deg 12mi 44freq

CBS 199deg 12.1mi 56freq

ABC 199deg 11.5mi 45freq

NBC 198deg 11.2mi 28freq



TIA


Z


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> after all this trouble to get Enterprise in HD, and they go ahead and cancel it.*



What do you mean, cancel?


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by zoepup_
> *I was wondering why I have problems receiving CBS on both my D* Samsung HD recevier (OTA.. not thru satellite) and my Pioneer built in HD receiver OTA.. The rest of my OTA locals seem to come in fine and besides the frequency assignment everything appears fine. The OTA I use is the channelmaster that D* installs with their HD installs. Is CBS that hard to pick up? I live in Norhtern NJ.
> 
> Z*



I'm in Brooklyn and I can't get CBS -- I get all the other networks. Dan


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *What do you mean, cancel?*



Unfortunately UPN has cancelled ENTERPRISE. last new episodes will air in May. and just when the stories are getting better!!!



jim


----------



## rlindabury

I think I've posted this information before but here's a recap.


NJN has four towers in NJ that all broadcast the same programming which is generated in Trenton and distributed out through the four antenna towers.


To tune in the DIGITAL channels you select your closest tower or one that's not obstructed. Tune to the appropriate channel using this list:


Camden - channel 22

Trenton - channel 43

New Brunswick - channel 8

Montclair - channel 51


The above are the ACTUAL channels to tune to. They are REBRANDED (show up on your receiver) as follows:


Camden - channel 23

Trenton - channel 52

New Brunswick - channel 58

Montclair - channel 50


Please note that the New Brunswick channel (8) is VHF and NOT UHF. If you have a UHF only antenna and preamp, you will not be able to receive it. So, a Silver Sensor will NOT receive 8/58.


Camden and New Brunswick towers are slated to get a power boost in the spring.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Yeah, the old rusty antenna on my steep roof is pointing due south and I haven't built up the courage to try and change its direction. WNJN was the only channel it picked up (zero from ESB). That's why I switched to the silver sensor which gets the other networks but not WNJN. I'll try Gary's numbers tonight to see if old bessy can get the signal once again. Thank you both for your replies! Dan*


----------



## rlindabury

Maybe there's some misunderstanding but NJN isn't broadcasting from the ESB nor the combiner. NJN has their own four towers in NJ.


As for power, what information are you looking for? I can ask the engineer and get the information back to you.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *I wrote to WNJN and got an initial request for more info from me. If they get back to me with anything interesting regarding their signal strength etc. I'll post it here. Dan*


----------



## SnellKrell

Bob -


Can you explain the following to me?


I live in mid-town Manhattan, using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna, I receive (someof the time) O-T-A Channel 51 remapped as:


50.1

50.2

50.3

50.4

50.5


The above I understand, but then I also receive:


52.1

52.2

52.3

52.4


My Sony SAT HD-300 STB refers to all of the above remapped channels beginning with 52, as also O-T-A Channel 51 from Montclair not Channel 43

from Trenton.


I'm almost positive that both Channels are coming to me from Montclair -

both display the same signal quality/strength and I doubt that I'd be able to receive a stable picture from Trenton.


Any idea what my Channels with 52 as prefixes are? And where are they coming from?


NJN has been a great help with WNET-DT not being available to me; and with WLIW having abandoned HD broadcasting.


Thanks,


Gary


----------



## mondesign

Gary,


I receive RF channel 51 from Montclair, but it remaps to 52.1, 52.2, 52.3, 52.4 and 52.5 on my Zenith HDV-420


Mike


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by zoepup_
> *I was wondering why I have problems receiving CBS on both my D* Samsung HD recevier (OTA.. not thru satellite) and my Pioneer built in HD receiver OTA.. The rest of my OTA locals seem to come in fine and besides the frequency assignment everything appears fine. The OTA I use is the channelmaster that D* installs with their HD installs. Is CBS that hard to pick up? I live in Norhtern NJ.
> 
> *



Where in Northern New Jersey are you? I'm in Rockland County near Montvale , NJ and before the Combiner project CBS used to be pretty solid. Now, since the combiner, I get wonderful CBS reception in the AM but as the sun goes across the sky and finally down, my reception goes "south" (Pun intended).


Otherwise other stations are fine, and I'm awaiting Combiner complettion so that I can plan strategy to get remining reception problems resolved..


----------



## zoepup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TVjazzman_
> *Where in Northern New Jersey are you? I'm in Rockland County near Montvale , NJ and before the Combiner project CBS used to be pretty solid. Now, since the combiner, I get wonderful CBS reception in the AM but as the sun goes across the sky and finally down, my reception goes "south" (Pun intended).
> 
> 
> Otherwise other stations are fine, and I'm awaiting Combiner complettion so that I can plan strategy to get remining reception problems resolved..*



I am in Tenafly NJ.. About 5 minutes north of the GWB. what is the combiner thing I see talked about on here so much. Is there a quick explanation or a thread that would help me understand it.


If I remember correctly, when I first had the OTA put up I received CBS. HOwever, it was misaligned too far to the east and I did not get many other channels. After realigning it properly I get every station I should get (except CBS). It perplexes me because CBS appears to be in the same line as the others.


TIA


Z


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *
> 
> 
> Who knows, maybe if enough people call they'll figure out that a pledge drive for HD might just net them the cash they need?
> 
> 
> I'd contribute if I thought it would make a difference.*



I would give if I knew it would mean getting their Ant in place. Dont get me wrong about WNET....I understand they dont have the cash that the other nets do. Does anyone know how much it would actually cost to get their sig and equipment on the combiner? Im all for a pledge drive for HD. Im going to call WNET during the week and see if they listen. I pay extra for PBS KIDS to Directv ...so if the OTA sig was available to me , I would give PBS the money instead of Directv. Even though it isnt much...it would be something.


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by zoepup_
> *I am in Tenafly NJ.. About 5 minutes north of the GWB. what is the combiner thing I see talked about on here so much. Is there a quick explanation or a thread that would help me understand it.
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly, when I first had the OTA put up I received CBS. HOwever, it was misaligned too far to the east and I did not get many other channels. After realigning it properly I get every station I should get (except CBS). It perplexes me because CBS appears to be in the same line as the others.
> 
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> Z*


 http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...s_Empire.shtml 


Read this artricle, it is a bit technical, but will give you a wonderful overview of what the combiner is and what it will accomplish. Also, if you look at the previous 10 or so pages of this thread you'll get a good sense of what stations are involved and which aren't.


You may have a problem with muli-path (do a search in google for multi-path) basically multiple paths of the same signal hitting your antenna and causing problems...


It may take moving your antenna, not just rotating it to accomplish all channel reception. And until all is completed on the Combiner, various channels do testing that affects your reception. This in turn could affect your reception levels... So once the Combiner moves and testing are complete, you'll have a baseline to try and match. They will not change much, you may or may not have to...


At least that's my read on teh next few months and my reception problems...


Read Peter Putman ( WWW.HDTVEXPERT.COM ) he writes rather well on OTA problems and reception...


good Luck and good viewing


----------



## ElVee

According to antennaweb.org, I should be getting channels 4, 7 and 11 at 116 degrees (1.9 miles away) and channels 2, 5, 9 and 13 from 70 degrees (3.9 miles away).


From the map, it looks like the channels at 116 degrees are at the WTC site and the channels at 70 degrees are at the ESB.


Are the channels that are supposed to be at 116 degrees still coming from somewhere else downtown or have they been moved to ESB?


Thanks!


----------



## SnellKrell

2,4,5,7,9 and 11 are now all coming from the ESB.


13 is currently still located on West 33rd Street in Manhattan.


Gary


----------



## aup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TVjazzman_
> 
> ... And until all is completed on the Combiner, various channels do testing that affects your reception. This in turn could affect your reception levels... So once the Combiner moves and testing are complete, you'll have a baseline to try and match. They will not change much, you may or may not have to...
> 
> ...
> 
> good Luck and good viewing [/b]



Is there a deadline for when it will be completed (even if it has slipped)? I installed a Winegard PR-4400 in my attic in Central NJ a few days back, and I find great variation in reception with time of day as well as the channels.


Thanks.

Chris.


----------



## DvST8

I just did a rescan (5:00 pm feb 5th) WB 11 (Wpix) now has guide data on 33-1 (11-1).


----------



## SnellKrell

Chris -


There is no deadline.


It will be finished when it's finished.


WNBC-DT appears to be at full power as of today.


WPIX-DT, as has been mentioned, today, finally got its PSIP providing program information working on 11.1. - it was supposed to be in place on 2/1. I don't believe the station is at full power yet.


Channel 13 is yet to go on the Combiner.


Separately, although not part of the Combiner project, WNYW-DT had hoped to achieve full power by the time of tomorrow's Super Bowl. But they are not ready, so, for the present, they will continue to transmit at the station's previous power - a bit less than 25% of its newly authorized level.



So, as you can tell, the work on the Empire State Building is a continuing process.


Gary


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDntheCity_
> *Unfortunately UPN has cancelled ENTERPRISE. last new episodes will air in May. and just when the stories are getting better!!!
> 
> 
> 
> jim*


 http://www.saveenterprise.com/


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *2,4,5,7,9 and 11 are now all coming from the ESB.
> 
> 
> 13 is currently still located on West 33rd Street in Manhattan.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Thanks.


Also, I get WNYW on 9-2 and 38-4 but it does not map to channel 5. This is my only local that currently won't map correctly.


Is anyone else having this problem? Is this a DirecTv issue?


----------



## rlindabury

Hmm.. that does seem very odd. I don't have an answer for you. The only scenario I can think of is that the rebranding isn't being picked up correctly by your receiver. I guess there could be a problem with some of the rebranding from one of the towers but I don't have any conclusive information on that.


51 remapped as 50 is the way it's supposed to be.


43 would remap as 52. I suppose it's possible you are getting Trenton.


I'm in Piscataway and I can get 8/58 and 43/52 no problem. I have issues with getting anything from Montclair (51/50) and you'd think I would be able to get that due to proximity but I believe there's a mountain chain between me and the Montclair tower.


You might want to see if you can delete that channel and then tune to 43 and see if it comes in and remaps to 52. I don't know your receiver but that's what I would do with my Samsung.


I find I can sometimes receive NYC stations when a Silver Sensor is pointed towards NYC and I still get some Philly stations which are almost 180 degrees out. So, maybe you are getting Trenton as well as Montclair. You'll have to test and see.


Just to be clear, it doesn't much matter because the programming is the same regardless of which tower you tune to. So, you may as well pick the one you receive the best with the least grief and just use that one.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Bob -
> 
> 
> Can you explain the following to me?
> 
> 
> I live in mid-town Manhattan, using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna, I receive (someof the time) O-T-A Channel 51 remapped as:
> 
> 
> 50.1
> 
> 50.2
> 
> 50.3
> 
> 50.4
> 
> 50.5
> 
> 
> The above I understand, but then I also receive:
> 
> 
> 52.1
> 
> 52.2
> 
> 52.3
> 
> 52.4
> 
> 
> My Sony SAT HD-300 STB refers to all of the above remapped channels beginning with 52, as also O-T-A Channel 51 from Montclair not Channel 43
> 
> from Trenton.
> 
> 
> I'm almost positive that both Channels are coming to me from Montclair -
> 
> both display the same signal quality/strength and I doubt that I'd be able to receive a stable picture from Trenton.
> 
> 
> Any idea what my Channels with 52 as prefixes are? And where are they coming from?
> 
> 
> NJN has been a great help with WNET-DT not being available to me; and with WLIW having abandoned HD broadcasting.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Gary*


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Thanks.
> 
> 
> Also, I get WNYW on 9-2 and 38-4 but it does not map to channel 5. This is my only local that currently won't map correctly.
> 
> 
> Is anyone else having this problem? Is this a DirecTv issue?*



That's the way it's being broadcast right now. It's not a DirecTV issue. FOX-WNYW-SD is being simulcast on 9-2 (38.4). Conversely, UPN-WWOR-SD is being simulcast on 5.2 (44.2).


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mikeny_
> *That's the way it's being broadcast right now. It's not a DirecTV issue. FOX-WNYW-SD is being simulcast on 9-2 (38.4). Conversely, UPN-WWOR-SD is being simulcast on 5.2 (44.2).*



Thanks. So, is there a FOX WNYW-HD OTA channel ?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Thanks. So, is there a FOX WNYW-HD OTA channel ?*



Yes, UHF channel 44. This should map to 5-1 (Fox HD) and 5-2 (UPN simulcast).


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *Hmm.. that does seem very odd. I don't have an answer for you. The only scenario I can think of is that the rebranding isn't being picked up correctly by your receiver. I guess there could be a problem with some of the rebranding from one of the towers but I don't have any conclusive information on that.*



I'm seeing a similar situation here in Nassau county. I am receiving channel 51 but my Zenith HD230 and my 921 maps to 52. My HD TiVo shows 50 in the guide and banner, BUT if I do a meter reading on channel 51 it displays the PSIP as channel 52. Weird stuff.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> after all this trouble to get Enterprise in HD, and they go ahead and cancel it.*



Tell me about it. After nearly a year of having an HD set, and over three years of watching Enterprise in SD, I was so happy to finally be able to get the show in HD, only to hear on the 10 O'Clock news two weeks later that it will end it's run in May.







The future is not looking good for the Star Trek franchise on television at all. From the original (in re-runs), straight through to Enterprise, I have been watching Star Trek my entire life. I will be saddened when it is gone.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Tell me about it. After nearly a year of having an HD set, and over three years of watching Enterprise in SD, I was so happy to finally be able to get the show in HD, only to hear on the 10 O'Clock news two weeks later that it will end it's run in May.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The future is not looking good for the Star Trek franchise on television at all. From the original (in re-runs), straight through to Enterprise, I have been watching Star Trek my entire life. I will be saddened when it is gone.*



Perhaps the next incarnation will be by someone who's actually seen Star Trek before!


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Perhaps the next incarnation will be by someone who's actually seen Star Trek before!*



If there is a next incarnation. I fear that, because of Enterprise's poor performance in the ratings that the 'suits' will shy away from any additional Star Trek shows.


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Chris -
> 
> 
> There is no deadline.
> 
> 
> It will be finished when it's finished.
> 
> 
> WNBC-DT appears to be at full power as of today.
> 
> 
> WPIX-DT, as has been mentioned, today, finally got its PSIP providing program information working on 11.1. - it was supposed to be in place on 2/1. I don't believe the station is at full power yet.
> 
> 
> Channel 13 is yet to go on the Combiner.
> 
> 
> Separately, although not part of the Combiner project, WNYW-DT had hoped to achieve full power by the time of tomorrow's Super Bowl. But they are not ready, so, for the present, they will continue to transmit at the station's previous power - a bit less than 25% of its newly authorized level.
> 
> 
> 
> So, as you can tell, the work on the Empire State Building is a continuing process.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Gary,


I'm getting all the digital channels except NBC-DT and PIX-DT (Freq 33). However, I do still get PIX-DT off Freq 12 (strength of 68).


On Freq 28, NBC and PIX (33) I'm getting signal strengths in the 20's and 30's.


I just find it hard it to believe that NBC is at full power when UPN and everything else is coming in strongly enough.


----------



## jcord51

Gary, I fully agree with your observation. NBC is now unviewable with a "0" to "40" and then back to "0" signal! It was my most reliable station. I am using a 921 Dish receiver.


----------



## kaiming




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcord51_
> *Gary, I fully agree with your observation. NBC is now unviewable with a "0" to "40" and then back to "0" signal! It was my most reliable station. I am using a 921 Dish receiver.*



I wasn't getting nbc for a short while, but now I am.


----------



## wlm

I'm searched around and haven't found much discussion for OTA reception in Fairfield County, CT. I guess most people have satellite or cable.


Antennaweb.org shows next to no digital stations for my location (I'm roughly 50 miles from NYC). I was hoping to pick up the networks with a Channel Master 4228 UHF and 7777 preamp on my roof. Before I risk life and limb, I was wondering if anybody in this area (Wilton, Weston, Ridgefield, New Canaan) has had any luck pulling in NYC stations OTA? Or is antennaweb accurate in that the best I can hope for is PBS out of Bridgeport?


Any insights greatly appreciated.


----------



## offandon

wlm, antennaweb tends to be rather conservative in its estimates. Many people here report getting stations that antennaweb does not project they can get. Hopefully someone here is from your area and can provide some insight ... if not you may have to find a way to try it out yourself.


If you post some more details I am sure people here could give more insight. Things like exact location, height of your location, mountains or other obstructions, etc. If you have a clear shot to the towers 50 miles should not be too far.


----------



## beatles6

As of today in Staten Island I am getting a 100 signal on all the networks including WPIX which before was only 55-60. Still waiting for Ch 13.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wlm_
> *I'm searched around and haven't found much discussion for OTA reception in Fairfield County, CT. I guess most people have satellite or cable.
> 
> 
> Antennaweb.org shows next to no digital stations for my location (I'm roughly 50 miles from NYC). I was hoping to pick up the networks with a Channel Master 4228 UHF and 7777 preamp on my roof. Before I risk life and limb, I was wondering if anybody in this area (Wilton, Weston, Ridgefield, New Canaan) has had any luck pulling in NYC stations OTA? Or is antennaweb accurate in that the best I can hope for is PBS out of Bridgeport?
> 
> 
> Any insights greatly appreciated.*



50 miles from NYC should definitely not be a problem for you unless there's some substantial terrain issue between you and the transmitters -- and even then it'd need to be relatively close to your side.


I receive Philadelphia stations from some ~60 miles away and NYC stations from 30 miles away.


Do you have a rotator or are you trying to aim manually? If the latter, I'd say before you go "risking life and limb" that you get a Channel Master 9521A rotator to install; it makes the aiming step a whole lot easier, even if you then never move it again.


----------



## netman

Wlm,


Wilton is 40 miles from the ESB according to my topo map. There is some terrain between them slightly higher than Wilton so your immediate location will play a part in reception. If you get the antenna up as high as you can and use a rotor as Doug suggests (I ALWAYS suggest a rotor) you have a decent chance.


----------



## dswallow

To expand on the concept of a rotator -- I have about a 3° window where I can receive WPIX-DT fine (via VHF12 -- things are better with UHF33 now). If I didn't have the rotator in order to have found that position, I'd probably have come to the conclusion it was not a station I could receive -- manually adjust the antenna in 1° increments and running back down to the TV to check channels just is a time consuming way to do it. If you're near the antenna when moving it and having someone else check reception, your body is affecting the reception.


I rarely play with moving it -- initially I played with it so I could watch Philadelphia channels sometimes, but now that NYC is mostly back to normal I really haven't moved it once in almost a year. But I don't regret the investment in the rotator for a minute.


----------



## dan57

NBC was out to lunch this morning for me OTA. First time since it went on the combiner. More combiner work?


----------



## SnellKrell

Without any "inside" knowledge, I'm sure that WNBC-DT has been working on its signal.


On Saturday, for me at least, it became the strongest/best signal on my set-up. Yesterday, not that great. As of a few minutes ago, nice and strong, almost at Saturday's level.


It's difficult to be more exact because I'm using a Silver Sensor - and with this antenna, the slightest change in position can provide a tremendous change in its pick-up.


Gary


----------



## decepticonleader

Thanks for your replies ... sorry I'm late in responding; been working all weekend ... I will try out the Silver Sensor and report back. I live on 57th Street and 10th Ave., so hopefully, I'll have some good news!


I have a SHARP Aquos LC-26GD4U 26 inch HDTV LCD TV, recently purchased.



replies to my original post:

HDntheCity:

hi decepticon


most people on this forum would probably point you to the Zenith/Gemini ZHDTV-1. it sounds like you live within 2-3 mi. of the ESB. multipath is always an issue and the Zenith is reputed to be very good at dealing with it. i live just off 9th Ave. behind the Port Authority and i can get pretty much every signal from the combiner plus FOX.

you can find this antenna at Sears or on Amazon.com. its 1/3 cheaper on Amazon but returning it if it doesn't do the job might be more difficult. good luck & tell us more about your system.


jim



Gary Press:

Unfortunately, you'll never know until you try one.


It's all location, location and location!


Add in, a lot of luck.


Try the Silver Sensor. See if you can return it if it doesn't work for you.


Gary



HDntheCity:

BTW decepticon the Silver Sensor is the same antenna i just recommended. it's the common name for it. i used the model # in case you did an Internet search. and Gary's right-trial and error and then more trial. again good luck!!


jim


----------



## tmtech

Gary,


I'm seeing a very low signal from NBC this morning. CBS is ~90, NBC is barely hitting 60 and the others are ~70-75.


My NBC signal used to hover in the high 70's low 80's... Whatever they did wasn't good for me!!


Tom




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Without any "inside" knowledge, I'm sure that WNBC-DT has been working on its signal.
> 
> 
> On Saturday, for me at least, it became the strongest/best signal on my set-up. Yesterday, not that great. As of a few minutes ago, nice and strong, almost at Saturday's level.
> 
> 
> It's difficult to be more exact because I'm using a Silver Sensor - and with this antenna, the slightest change in position can provide a tremendous change in its pick-up.
> 
> 
> Gary*


----------



## aup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *50 miles from NYC should definitely not be a problem for you unless there's some substantial terrain issue between you and the transmitters -- and even then it'd need to be relatively close to your side.
> *





> Quote:
> _Also stated by dswallow_
> *To expand on the concept of a rotator -- ... If you're near the antenna when moving it and having someone else check reception, your body is affecting the reception.
> *



Doug, and others:

I live in Summit, NJ (North Central NJ?), about 25 miles from NYC. As I stated a day or so back, I just installed a Winegard PR-4400 antenna in my attic with a 28dB Winegard UHF pre-amp (probably overkill, according to the Winegard Tech Support, based on the 25 mile distance). I finally have the antenna pointed in the general direction of ESB (considerably different than what antennaweb recommended for my location), but I find something interesting. I certainly observed the second point you made above, where when I am near the antenna and/or adjusting it, that affects the reception and when I move away, it changes. This I understand.

But I also observed that often I am only able to pick up only one or two of the big three (not including NBC) - for example, yesterday I could pick up Fox on 5.1 and UPN on 5.2 pretty solid, with occasional breakup, but not CBS or ABC. A few days back, it was CBS alone but not the other two. At other times, it was just Fox and ABC. Is there a method to this - maybe because they are sharing the transmitter (?), only one of them operates at full power at a time? (I saw the posts from several people saying they received all channels at full power recently.)

If not, could this be an effect of slight postioning changes that you refer to above , even though all are originating from ESB? I can understand if all the ESB channels were received at about the same quality. By the way, this holds under a few different weather conditions (rainy, wet, cloudy, clear, sunny, etc). I am loathe to invest in a rotor, if something other than my ability to postion the antenna is limiting my reception.

On a side note, even though this is a UHF antenna, I can receive WNJN (58.1-58.5) very well, despite their being transmitted on VHF. Also their reception is mostly unaffected by the orientation of the antenna.

Thanks.

Chris.


----------



## daoust501

Chris,


I live a few miles west of you (Long Hill Twp.) and I was experiencing the same problem. I set up a DB4 in my attic and saw the same symptoms. NJB (58) came in strong no matter what, even though it is VHF. I chalked this up to proximity to the signal. But for what I wanted (FOX for the SB) it was a hit or miss proposition. Solid one day, not a sniff the next. What I found that is now working for me, was to put a Silver Sensor in the attic, attached to a CM-7775 pre amp. I'm getting FOX, ABC and UPN with no dropouts. Not doing so well with CBS, but I get that from the dish so it doesn't bother me that much.


----------



## decepticonleader

Hello All:


Thanks for your help with my OTA HDTV questions. I have another one. Two fellow members recommended the Zenith/Gemini ZHDTV-1 /Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Can I also use the Terk HD-TVi indoor antenna? I can go downtown and get one; what are your thoughts on the Terk?


Thanks again!


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aup_
> *Doug, and others:
> 
> I live in Summit, NJ (North Central NJ?), about 25 miles from NYC. As I stated a day or so back, I just installed a Winegard PR-4400 antenna in my attic with a 28dB Winegard UHF pre-amp (probably overkill, according to the Winegard Tech Support, based on the 25 mile distance). I finally have the antenna pointed in the general direction of ESB (considerably different than what antennaweb recommended for my location), but I find something interesting. I certainly observed the second point you made above, where when I am near the antenna and/or adjusting it, that affects the reception and when I move away, it changes. This I understand.
> 
> But I also observed that often I am only able to pick up only one or two of the big three (not including NBC) - for example, yesterday I could pick up Fox on 5.1 and UPN on 5.2 pretty solid, with occasional breakup, but not CBS or ABC. A few days back, it was CBS alone but not the other two. At other times, it was just Fox and ABC. Is there a method to this - maybe because they are sharing the transmitter (?), only one of them operates at full power at a time? (I saw the posts from several people saying they received all channels at full power recently.)
> 
> If not, could this be an effect of slight postioning changes that you refer to above , even though all are originating from ESB? I can understand if all the ESB channels were received at about the same quality. By the way, this holds under a few different weather conditions (rainy, wet, cloudy, clear, sunny, etc). I am loathe to invest in a rotor, if something other than my ability to postion the antenna is limiting my reception.
> 
> On a side note, even though this is a UHF antenna, I can receive WNJN (58.1-58.5) very well, despite their being transmitted on VHF. Also their reception is mostly unaffected by the orientation of the antenna.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chris.*



A few degrees can really make a difference. You may simply be aimed right now where you're actually getting a reflection of the signal rather than something more direct; of course that then could mean you'd have multipath issues too. Are you familiar with the terrain between you and the transmitters? I know there's some valleys/"mountains" up in northern NJ which could have detrimental effects. If you can check that on a topographic map, you might find there's something significant in your way. But barring that, sort of thing, or something behind you or to your sides which might be a reflection point for the signal, I would expect the PR-4400 to work. The 8-bay version would be more directional and could help you if you're having some multipath problems, allowing you to find a point where the major source of your multipath ends up in a null area of the antenna, thus not affecting your signal.


The rotator though is really a good investment. It doesn't really need to be the fancy remote-controllable CM9521A, though it's certainly more convenient than most... any rotator would help you be able to do fine tuning aiming.


You could also use the link in my signature to the broadcast station info, get your actual lat/long first, use the -13.5 magentic deviation that'll be the default and see what direction it gives you (with that magnetic deviation, you should have accurate compass headings to use), but all the NYC stations come basically from one of two locations.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, after my hopes that WNBC-DT had finally gotten its act together - after on Saturday receiving the station at its strongest level so far; after the station providing video and audio on 4.1 - the engineers are back with their "tinkering!"


And, I'm back to no picture on 4.1 and 4.2. 4.1's audio is on 4.2.

28.3 - no picture - WNBC-DT's audio; 28.4 - no picture - Weather Plus audio.


Back to the drawing boards!!!!


Let's hope that things return to "normal" by this evening.


Gary


----------



## aup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *A few degrees can really make a difference. You may simply be aimed right now where you're actually getting a reflection of the signal rather than something more direct; of course that then could mean you'd have multipath issues too. Are you familiar with the terrain between you and the transmitters? I know there's some valleys/"mountains" up in northern NJ which could have detrimental effects. If you can check that on a topographic map, you might find there's something significant in your way. But barring that, sort of thing, or something behind you or to your sides which might be a reflection point for the signal, I would expect the PR-4400 to work. The 8-bay version would be more directional and could help you if you're having some multipath problems, allowing you to find a point where the major source of your multipath ends up in a null area of the antenna, thus not affecting your signal.
> 
> ...
> 
> You could also use the link in my signature to the broadcast station info, get your actual lat/long first, use the -13.5 magentic deviation that'll be the default and see what direction it gives you (with that magnetic deviation, you should have accurate compass headings to use), but all the NYC stations come basically from one of two locations.*



Thanks, Doug. I did look up your link earlier. Great site. The orientations on that site match those I got from antennaweb.com. That makes the first possiblity you mention (that I might actually be receiving the reflections) plausible. I will look up a topo map of New Jersey in the library.

I am also exploring another plausible lead, which is that my Winegard AP-4800 pre-amp (28 dB) is being driven to saturation because of my being within 25 miles of ESB. The Tech at Winegard immediately mentioned this possibility, and thought that the overloading could sometimes be sufficient to cause the receiver to give up. He told me to try connecting some attenuators in the path, but that experiment came out negative. Gary Press mentioned recently that Fox is transmitting at less that 25% of maximum, and if the others are already at maximum, then from the data on your site, it is easy to see why the preamp could deal with the Fox signal, but would be driven to saturation by the others.

Pursuing the reflection possibility a bit further, why the reflection only of Fox and not ABC or CBS? Is it frequency related?

Thanks.

Chris.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's 2:48 p.m. and WNBC-DT is back among the living!


Let's hope it'll stay with us for a while.


Gary


----------



## aup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by daoust501_
> *Chris,
> 
> 
> I live a few miles west of you (Long Hill Twp.) and I was experiencing the same problem. I set up a DB4 in my attic and saw the same symptoms. NJB (58) came in strong no matter what, even though it is VHF. I chalked this up to proximity to the signal. But for what I wanted (FOX for the SB) it was a hit or miss proposition. Solid one day, not a sniff the next. What I found that is now working for me, was to put a Silver Sensor in the attic, attached to a CM-7775 pre amp. I'm getting FOX, ABC and UPN with no dropouts. Not doing so well with CBS, but I get that from the dish so it doesn't bother me that much.*



Thanks. That really helps, because of the proximity of our locations. I will add this to my list of things to try, if the Winegard setup does not work.

Chris.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by decepticonleader_
> *Hello All:
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help with my OTA HDTV questions. I have another one. Two fellow members recommended the Zenith/Gemini ZHDTV-1 /Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Can I also use the Terk HD-TVi indoor antenna? I can go downtown and get one; what are your thoughts on the Terk?
> 
> 
> Thanks again!*




I have the Silver Sensor. I literally replaced the Terk in place of the Silver Sensor and got NO SIGNAL WHATSOEVER


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *Maybe there's some misunderstanding but NJN isn't broadcasting from the ESB nor the combiner. NJN has their own four towers in NJ.
> 
> 
> As for power, what information are you looking for? I can ask the engineer and get the information back to you.*



Bob, thanks very much for your reply. Here's the deal in a nutshell. When I first connected my roof antenna to my receiver and did a scan, the only channels I received were WNJN + substations. I didn't know enough about HDTV to understand exactly which channels I was tuned to (I didn't pay attention to the numbers). I went out and bought a Silver Sensor (for the other channels) thinking that I would just switch back to the roof antenna when I wanted to watch WNJN. Unfortunately, now when I hook up the roof antenna, I no longer receive any signal, ZERO. I'm wondering if when I first was receiving WNJN it was because they had temporarily boosted the power (maybe a test...). I was receiving a very strong and steady signal, now I get zilch (I tried all the different towers you mentioned). Any thoughts?


Thanks,


Dan in Brooklyn


----------



## MLM

I had a similar experience in NE Queens. New Jersey public TV for a few weeks, then almost no signal and no picture since.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aup_
> *Thanks, Doug. I did look up your link earlier. Great site. The orientations on that site match those I got from antennaweb.com. That makes the first possiblity you mention (that I might actually be receiving the reflections) plausible. I will look up a topo map of New Jersey in the library.
> 
> I am also exploring another plausible lead, which is that my Winegard AP-4800 pre-amp (28 dB) is being driven to saturation because of my being within 25 miles of ESB. The Tech at Winegard immediately mentioned this possibility, and thought that the overloading could sometimes be sufficient to cause the receiver to give up. He told me to try connecting some attenuators in the path, but that experiment came out negative. Gary Press mentioned recently that Fox is transmitting at less that 25% of maximum, and if the others are already at maximum, then from the data on your site, it is easy to see why the preamp could deal with the Fox signal, but would be driven to saturation by the others.
> 
> Pursuing the reflection possibility a bit further, why the reflection only of Fox and not ABC or CBS? Is it frequency related?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chris.*



Are there any FM stations broadcasting near you (really near)? They might overload your preamp if it covers those frequencies... similarly if there is a close-by transmitter in the frequency range covered by your preamp, it might be the reason the preamp causes problems. If it's a VHF/UHF preamp, it probably can be affected by a strong local FM transmitter. If the preamp doesn't have a built-in way to block FM signals, you can get an FM block and place it inline between the antenna and preamp.


Have you tried it without the preamp inline at all?


I was able to receive all UHF digital stations (pre-combiner) from NYC at 30 miles using a Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter antenna, with no preamp. I've not yet tried it now that the combiner is mostly operational, and certainly would expect it does at least as well as before.


BTW, if you haven't seen it already, have a look at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/fixes.html (and many of the other pages on the same site).


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *I rarely play with moving it -- initially I played with it so I could watch Philadelphia channels sometimes, but now that NYC is mostly back to normal I really haven't moved it once in almost a year. But I don't regret the investment in the rotator for a minute.*



I second that emotion!


I'm dumbfounded at how far the OTA viewing in (in my case) Central NJ has come since I started this expensive hobby in February 2003. I risked the 'ole life and limb to climb up and put up not one but TWO OTA antennas/rotator setups....and now I haven't swung back towards Philly in nary a year or so on one rig and about 10 months on the other.


*Still shaking my head in amazement*.....


----------



## netman

I have done a large number of TV antenna installations over the past 35 years. The cost of a rotor is so small compared to the benefits. With a very directional antenna, like many of us use, it is close to impossible to aim the antenna by hand no matter what some may think. WHAT IS YOUR TIME WORTH!?!? With a rotor you could have a simple aiming situation figured out in 15-20 minutes, a complex one is an hour or so. The walkie talkies to the roof, the yelling up and down and climbing back and forth ... That kind of rooftop activity is for the birds.


----------



## UroDoc

Channel Master 9521a is the name, OTA is the game. If your serious about OTA then you need a rotator. It's worth the effort. Occassionally I tweak the setting based on the weather and the latest combiner "tuning" . Use the remote from the sofa to make the adjustments.


By the way, Loews (Garden City) have Channel Master 9521a rotators in stock. ~ $90.


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Without any "inside" knowledge, I'm sure that WNBC-DT has been working on its signal.
> 
> 
> On Saturday, for me at least, it became the strongest/best signal on my set-up. Yesterday, not that great. As of a few minutes ago, nice and strong, almost at Saturday's level.
> 
> 
> It's difficult to be more exact because I'm using a Silver Sensor - and with this antenna, the slightest change in position can provide a tremendous change in its pick-up.
> 
> Well, after my hopes that WNBC-DT had finally gotten its act together - after on Saturday receiving the station at its strongest level so far; after the station providing video and audio on 4.1 - the engineers are back with their "tinkering!"
> 
> 
> And, I'm back to no picture on 4.1 and 4.2. 4.1's audio is on 4.2.
> 
> 28.3 - no picture - WNBC-DT's audio; 28.4 - no picture - Weather Plus audio.
> 
> 
> Back to the drawing boards!!!!
> 
> 
> Let's hope that things return to "normal" by this evening.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Let me do a little rumor control here. WNBC-DT is at 50% power, still, always has been. No engineers were tinkering with the transmitter since it first came on. Yes, there was a faulty PSIP generator last week, but that has been fixed. I'll let you know when the extra 3db of signal strength is finally squeezed out of the Thales transmitter thingy.....

I can only help you theorize why you are getting fluctuating signals.

Welcome to the world of Digital UHF!!

Unless an RF engineer with a calibrated spectrum analyzer and dipole is out doing contour evaluations, I would consider all the variables in your system including atmospheric effects. LOL....


George


----------



## tvuser1

I am using a Fusion HDTV card for OTA broadcasts. It works fine, except for the Fox network. During commercials, and only during commercials, it causes the card to crash. This doesn't happen on any other channel, just Fox. Other people in other threads in the AVS forums have reported the same thing, and this happens all over the country. Would anyone want to take a guess as to why this might happen? What is going on during the commercials, and only on Fox? If someone could figure it out, maybe it could be fixed.


----------



## wlm

Doug, netman, et.al.


Thanks for you advice on OTA reception in Wilton, CT. Rotator is a very good suggestion for fine tuning, which never occurred to me, since I was going to fix the antenna only at the networks in midtown.


I live on top of a hill, so I don't think immediate terrain will be too much of a problem. Trees could be another story though. They aren't right up against the house, but all of Wilton is basically in the woods, so it's tough to get away from them entirely.


Reception in my area is a gamble I guess, but my hd tuner has been collecting dust for over six months since our move from Maryland, so I'm anxious to get it back in action.


----------



## zoepup

I have a Channel master OTa that D* provided to me. How much does a rotor cost and can it be used with an antenna of this type? What is involved in doing this?


TIA

Z


----------



## UroDoc

ChannelMaster 9521a rotator ranges from about $70 - $100 (online). In store at Lowes $90+. This is the only rotator that has remote control. Radio shack sells the same model with their logo.


In addition to rotator you need 3 wire controller cable which is run from unit to digital controller. Cable is cheap. Rotator can be used with virtually all antennas.


----------



## George Thompson

Will we ever see a Freedom Tower? Here is an article from Broadcast Engineering....
http://broadcastengineering.com/news...0050207/#tower 


George


----------



## aup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Are there any FM stations broadcasting near you (really near)? They might overload your preamp if it covers those frequencies... similarly if there is a close-by transmitter in the frequency range covered by your preamp, it might be the reason the preamp causes problems. If it's a VHF/UHF preamp, it probably can be affected by a strong local FM transmitter. If the preamp doesn't have a built-in way to block FM signals, you can get an FM block and place it inline between the antenna and preamp.
> 
> 
> Have you tried it without the preamp inline at all?
> 
> 
> I was able to receive all UHF digital stations (pre-combiner) from NYC at 30 miles using a Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter antenna, with no preamp. I've not yet tried it now that the combiner is mostly operational, and certainly would expect it does at least as well as before.
> 
> 
> BTW, if you haven't seen it already, have a look at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/fixes.html (and many of the other pages on the same site).*



Thanks much. I will check out all these potential causes. It is now clear that I have to methodically look at each one and test it, as my set up is a likely candidate for all of these. The link you have suggested above also explains these very clearly.


I think the PR-4400 should work better than the Square Shooter, if the other variables are identical. So it may be a case of "location, location, location" (of town, house, antenna).

Chris.


----------



## Scott G

Has anyone noticed a reduction in power in all the stations on the combiner ? I am in Nassau county and were getting all the stations in the 90 signal range, but now they all seemed to have dropped off in power dramatically. Has anyone else lost power on the stations off the combiner. I would appreciate it if anyone can tell me if they are having any problems before I start looking at my antenna setup.


Thanks.


----------



## George Thompson

Scott,

While WCBS controls the combiner, they do not control individual transmitters, however I am not sure of the protocol of dumping to a dummy load or changing the combiner configuration. Upon further investigation here has not been an overall change in power of any transmitters at the ESB site.

George


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tvuser1_
> *I am using a Fusion HDTV card for OTA broadcasts. It works fine, except for the Fox network. During commercials, and only during commercials, it causes the card to crash. This doesn't happen on any other channel, just Fox. Other people in other threads in the AVS forums have reported the same thing, and this happens all over the country. Would anyone want to take a guess as to why this might happen? What is going on during the commercials, and only on Fox? If someone could figure it out, maybe it could be fixed.*



Mind control sub-harmonics?


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Scott G_
> *Has anyone noticed a reduction in power in all the stations on the combiner ? I am in Nassau county and were getting all the stations in the 90 signal range, but now they all seemed to have dropped off in power dramatically. Has anyone else lost power on the stations off the combiner. I would appreciate it if anyone can tell me if they are having any problems before I start looking at my antenna setup.
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



I experienced reduced signal (according the the readout on my two MyHDs) last night. I have no idea if it was transmitter site related or atmospheric or flying saucers but it is pretty rare for me to see degraded signals on either receiver.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *I experienced reduced signal (according the the readout on my two MyHDs) last night. I have no idea if it was transmitter site related or atmospheric or flying saucers but it is pretty rare for me to see degraded signals on either receiver.*



Yeah, I definitely think something is going on. Maybe it is atmospheric. I have been getting steady 90's on all stations since the combiner and as of last night I was getting reduced signals on every station. Everything seems to be okay with my antenna.


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *I had a similar experience in NE Queens. New Jersey public TV for a few weeks, then almost no signal and no picture since.*



Hi MLM, thanks for your post -- it's good to know I'm not alone in this. Hopefully Bob will be able to shed some light on what's going on. Anyone else in NYC have the same experience of getting a strong WNJN signal for a while, only to have it disappear? Thanks, Dan in Brooklyn


----------



## dpiroh

I also noticed about a lower signal (according to my 921's off-air meter) last night across the board...and NBC was dead...zilch...a zero. Yesterday around 3PM I was checking and all was good- NBC was around a 90. But when I attempted to watch "Medium" at 10 PM, the signal was GONE. Other networks were OK, though a bit lower than usual. Note that all networks were perfect for the Prez last week...doesn't anyone realize Medium is so much more interesting!


----------



## decepticonleader




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *I have the Silver Sensor. I literally replaced the Terk in place of the Silver Sensor and got NO SIGNAL WHATSOEVER*




mw390, thanks for your help. I'll get the Silver Sensor!


----------



## Scott G

The signal levels seem to have come back up this afternoon. I guess it was either something atmospheric or they were fooling around at the combiner.


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wlm_
> *Doug, netman, et.al.
> 
> 
> Thanks for you advice on OTA reception in Wilton, CT. Rotator is a very good suggestion for fine tuning, which never occurred to me, since I was going to fix the antenna only at the networks in midtown.
> 
> 
> I live on top of a hill, so I don't think immediate terrain will be too much of a problem. Trees could be another story though. They aren't right up against the house, but all of Wilton is basically in the woods, so it's tough to get away from them entirely.
> 
> 
> Reception in my area is a gamble I guess, but my hd tuner has been collecting dust for over six months since our move from Maryland, so I'm anxious to get it back in action.*



I am a Wiltonian - off Rigefield Road. Elevation 650 feet but lots of trees. I have a Winegard bi-directional.


Antennaweb.org is just dead wrong about DT stations out of NYC. There are better cites but I am unable to provide you the URL because I have not made five posts yet. But the short answer is that the NYC DT stations are CBS, 2-1, NBC, 4-1 and 4-2, Fox 5-1 and 5-2, ABC, 7-1 and 7-2, UPN, 9-1 and 9-2, WB, 11-1 and 11-2, and WNET, 13-1. 5-1 and 5-2 and 9-1 and 9-2 are odd since 5-1 is FOX HD while 5-2 is UPN SD. 9-1 and 9-2 are the reciprocals.


My Winegard probably needs some orientation fine-tuning. I get CBS 2-1 and ABC 8-1 and 8-2 from New Haven (only 20 miles away) solid. 5-1/5-2, 9-1/9-2 and 11-1/11-2 are not reliable. No shows for me are ABC NYC 7-1/7-2, and NET 13-1. NYC transmitters are about 42 miles away.


I am awaiting installation of a new ChannelMaster with preamp. We'll see it that helps.


Martin21


----------



## rlindabury

Hmm.. I have no good answer for that. It could be almost anything at this point but it would be something on your end or something blocking the signal to your location. NJN power hasn't changed that I know of. Only changes I know of are in the works and those are power boosts.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Bob, thanks very much for your reply. Here's the deal in a nutshell. When I first connected my roof antenna to my receiver and did a scan, the only channels I received were WNJN + substations. I didn't know enough about HDTV to understand exactly which channels I was tuned to (I didn't pay attention to the numbers). I went out and bought a Silver Sensor (for the other channels) thinking that I would just switch back to the roof antenna when I wanted to watch WNJN. Unfortunately, now when I hook up the roof antenna, I no longer receive any signal, ZERO. I'm wondering if when I first was receiving WNJN it was because they had temporarily boosted the power (maybe a test...). I was receiving a very strong and steady signal, now I get zilch (I tried all the different towers you mentioned). Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Dan in Brooklyn*


----------



## aup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by martin21_
> *Antennaweb.org is just dead wrong about DT stations out of NYC. There are better cites but I am unable to provide you the URL because I have not made five posts yet.
> 
> Martin21*



Do you know for a fact that it is wrong in terms of transmitter location/orientation? I need to determine that because I am receiving the NYC stations (not too well) at a differect orientation than what is suggested by antennaweb.org. Unfortunately another site (the one in Doug Swallow's signature line) matches the antennaweb orientations. I am trying to determine whether I am receiving the original signals or the reflections.


Could you pm the URLs of the better sites to me, please?

Thanks.

Chris.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aup_
> *Do you know for a fact that it is wrong in terms of transmitter location/orientation? I need to determine that because I am receiving the NYC stations (not too well) at a differect orientation than what is suggested by antennaweb.org. Unfortunately another site (the one in Doug Swallow's signature line) matches the antennaweb orientations. I am trying to determine whether I am receiving the original signals or the reflections.
> 
> 
> Could you pm the URLs of the better sites to me, please?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chris.*



Chris, did you use a magnetic deviation around -13.5? If you're around there then the compass headings it's showing are definitely correct. But even then a couple degrees one way or the other may provide better reception, since you can only get so accurate reading a small compass. Someone needs to incorporate a GPS receiver in a rotator.


----------



## jbjbjbjb

Last night WNJN was a zero % reading. Like the signal was just shut off completely. Last week I had no lock with 49-57%. Two weeks ago I had a solid 63% lock and was able to watch for a whole week. 4-1 was a solid 63% now no lock at 49-56%, Also 9-1 came in at 78% now its 63%. On 5-1, 7-1 & 2-1 always have 78-82%.


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aup_
> *Do you know for a fact that it is wrong in terms of transmitter location/orientation? I need to determine that because I am receiving the NYC stations (not too well) at a differect orientation than what is suggested by antennaweb.org. Unfortunately another site (the one in Doug Swallow's signature line) matches the antennaweb orientations. I am trying to determine whether I am receiving the original signals or the reflections.
> 
> 
> Could you pm the URLs of the better sites to me, please?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chris.*



Chris, I don't know what Doug Swallow sent to you but the one I referred to as better shows the same magnetic headings as those shown on antennaweb.org, i.e. for me 231 degrees for all NYC stations. Simply by looking at a map I can tell that this is roughly right for the direction of NYC from my home. I had my Winegard rotated to roughly this direction but what resulted was the inconsistencies I reported in my first post. Terrain must somehow play a part.


The site I am talking about, which I am not allowed to put in this post, has a 2150 in the URL. You have to enter your longitude and latitude first. You can find the site for determing longitude and latitude by going into Google and entering longitude and latitude and it is the second hit. When you do your search in 2150 you should first specify the distance you want to search. I used 50 miles and generated numerous stations in NYC, NJ and CT.


Hope this helps.


Martin21


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Chris, did you use a magnetic deviation around -13.5? If you're around there then the compass headings it's showing are definitely correct. But even then a couple degrees one way or the other may provide better reception, since you can only get so accurate reading a small compass. Someone needs to incorporate a GPS receiver in a rotator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Doug, you reference to magnetic deviation makes me realize how much I don't know. If used a store-bought magnet, which I would assume points to magnetic North, is there an adjustment needed? I thought antennaweb.org used magnetic headings.


Thanks.


Martin21


Correction: I said store-bought "magnet" when what I meant was "compass".


Addition: I now see that the 2150 site to which I referred automatically adds a magnetic deviation of -13.5 so the results must have been adjusted for that. So, maybe I don't have a question. Sorry.


----------



## Steve L

Got this in response to my query to WNET viewer relations this afternoon:


"My engineering staff is now saying we should be fully operative in a few more months. Unfortunately, they could not be more specific."


This confirms the last sentence of the Newsday article on the combiner project, pasted below.


/steve


Article taken from Long Island's NEWSDAY

SUNDAY December 19, 2004 ~ Page E32


HI-DEF AIR ALERT:


New Yorkers who depend on over-the-air signals for their HDTV viewing are about to be handed a Christmas present. Perhaps belatedly: the long-awaited, long delayed "combiner" transmitter atop the Empire State Building is supposed to begin transmitting by January.


The powerful combiner, which looks like a huge chunk of plumbing pipes, will replace the transmitters that were atop the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001. High definition digital broadcast originating from the Empire State Building will come from WCBS (which has been in place for several years) WNBC, WOR,WPIX and WNET. Fox (WNYC) broadcasts from a separate antenna on the building.


Bob Seidel, vice president of engineering for CBS, says he expects most of the stations will be transmitting from the combiner within the month. The range of the digital broadcasts will be from 55 to 60 miles, he said. "You won't notice any change in channel 2, we've been at 100 percent power all along. But all the other stations will get out farther," Seidel said.


WNET will be later in joining the combiner, since some of its transmission facilities aren't yet complete.


----------



## Steve L

Got this in response to my query to WNET viewer relations this afternoon:


"My engineering staff is now saying we should be fully operative in a few more months. Unfortunately, they could not be more specific."


This confirms the last sentence of the Newsday article on the combiner project below.


/steve


Article taken from Long Island's NEWSDAY

SUNDAY December 19, 2004 ~ Page E32


HI-DEF AIR ALERT:


New Yorkers who depend on over-the-air signals for their HDTV viewing are about to be handed a Christmas present. Perhaps belatedly: the long-awaited, long delayed "combiner" transmitter atop the Empire State Building is supposed to begin transmitting by January.


The powerful combiner, which looks like a huge chunk of plumbing pipes, will replace the transmitters that were atop the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001. High definition digital broadcast originating from the Empire State Building will come from WCBS (which has been in place for several years) WNBC, WOR,WPIX and WNET. Fox (WNYC) broadcasts from a separate antenna on the building.


Bob Seidel, vice president of engineering for CBS, says he expects most of the stations will be transmitting from the combiner within the month. The range of the digital broadcasts will be from 55 to 60 miles, he said. "You won't notice any change in channel 2, we've been at 100 percent power all along. But all the other stations will get out farther," Seidel said.


WNET will be later in joining the combiner, since some of its transmission facilities aren't yet complete.


----------



## mw390

If anyone out there is having trouble buying a Silver Sensor as of this exact time (7:30 PMEST) one seller in NJ has 28 available at a buy it nowprice of $17.99 + 10.00 shipping. Link:
http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sPageName=WDVW


----------



## mondesign

Can anyone explain the apparent differences in audio levels on the various NYC DTV stations? I put a scope on my STB audio output and found a 10 dB difference in the peak audio level between WNBC and WCBS . The other stations fall in between in level with WCBS the highest. There does not seem to be any uniformity in audio level as is found on the analog channels. Is there any requirement in the ATSC standard that audio be transmitted at a uniform reference level?


Mike


----------



## aup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Chris, did you use a magnetic deviation around -13.5? If you're around there then the compass headings it's showing are definitely correct. But even then a couple degrees one way or the other may provide better reception, since you can only get so accurate reading a small compass. Someone needs to incorporate a GPS receiver in a rotator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Hi Doug! Yes, I did, in making the entries in your site. (I used the default of -13.25.) Antennaweb does not ask for it, but I assume it inorporates it by default. As I said, both specify orientations of 96 degrees, which I am now inclined to believe is probably accurate. So the question is still open as to why I am seeing Fox (and occasionally other NYC stations) at about 75-80 degrees. I will follow through the suggestions you made and dig further into this. There is a small police station nearby (500-600 feet), but I don't think there are any FM transmitters.


Re: GPS in rotators, if you are into amateur astronomy, you know that they have similar needs there. There are some affordable solutions, such as Meade Autostar, that will move the telescope automatically to a location you punch in, once you have normalized the telescope using celestial North and your coordinates. Of course, the more expensive scopes have GPS incorporated. In our case though, I wonder how much longer it wil be before the HD stations become part of the basic cable/satellite packages, or become cheap enough, that it is not cost effective to spend several hundered dollars on antenna gear.

Thanks again.

Chris.


----------



## aup




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by martin21_
> *Chris, I don't know what Doug Swallow sent to you but the one I referred to as better shows the same magnetic headings as those shown on antennaweb.org, i.e. for me 231 degrees for all NYC stations. Simply by looking at a map I can tell that this is roughly right for the direction of NYC from my home. I had my Winegard rotated to roughly this direction but what resulted was the inconsistencies I reported in my first post. Terrain must somehow play a part.
> 
> 
> The site I am talking about, which I am not allowed to put in this post, has a 2150 in the URL. You have to enter your longitude and latitude first. You can find the site for determing longitude and latitude by going into Google and entering longitude and latitude and it is the second hit. When you do your search in 2150 you should first specify the distance you want to search. I used 50 miles and generated numerous stations in NYC, NJ and CT.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Martin21*



Hi Martin!

Yes, got it. I wasn't sure in what ways you had meant that antennaweb was wrong. Doesn't appear that antenna orientation is one of them, at least in comparison to the 2150 site. Completeness is certainly an issue, although in my current situation, I don't even receive all the antennaweb stations, let alone the others listed on 2150.

Thanks again.

Chris.


----------



## dlan

For those of us waiting for guide data on the HDTIVO so we can setup our season pass 11.1 (with guide data) is now remapped to UHF channel 33 from VHF channel 12


----------



## MidVill

I will be moving to East Meadow, NY next month, does anyone know a good antenna to use for OTA? The wife is pretty against a roof mount so I'm hoping something like a Silver Sensor or an attic mount would work. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Signalseeker

Is anyone having problems with FOX? I try to tune it in and the TV goes blank and actually shuts down. Tried resacanning and did not help. I never had this problem before. Did FOX remap?


I reported about a month ago I had problems receiving NYC OTA stations but this was caused by (embarrassed to say) the antennae turned on the mast and was out of alignment, so far off that the rotator could not bring it back in line.


----------



## Jon_CT




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hobbes382_
> *Feedback from anyone in the general area would be greatly appreciated.*



Hobbes382:


check your PM...


----------



## Jon_CT




----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MidVill_
> *I will be moving to East Meadow, NY next month, does anyone know a good antenna to use for OTA? The wife is pretty against a roof mount so I'm hoping something like a Silver Sensor or an attic mount would work. Thanks for your help.*



I live in Westbury (next town from East Meadow) and I don't think a Silver Sensor will work at this distance. I use a Channel Master 4248 Yagi with CM7777 preamp and CM 9521a Rotator. You can probable try an interior attic mount but I don't known if you will have enough signal strength. Scott is on this thread and he's from East Meadow. He can tell you what antenna setup he has.


----------



## Scott G

I did originally have a Radio Shack Bow Tie (Indoor Antenna) and it worked fine for channel 2, 5 and 7. I could not get channel 4 or 11. I now have a Channel Master 4228 with a 7775 preamp. I do not use the RS Bow Tie anymore, but I do think with the combiner signal strengths I probably could get reception with a silver sensor. I am in East Meadow and are about 30 miles from the ESB.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dlan_
> *For those of us waiting for guide data on the HDTIVO so we can setup our season pass 11.1 (with guide data) is now remapped to UHF channel 33 from VHF channel 12*



Did you have to clear & rescan or reboot? I'm watching right now and still have "Regular Schedule".


----------



## jcondon




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Did you have to clear & rescan or reboot? I'm watching right now and still have "Regular Schedule".*



I played all the reboots and rescans and things. And then I think Friday night past it just start to work as it used to work.


Make sure you go into channels I receive and turn on both 11-1. One is 12 and one is 33. The 33 one now has guide data and works for me.


----------



## tmtech

Just clearing is enough... Then make sure 11-1 is in CIR.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Did you have to clear & rescan or reboot? I'm watching right now and still have "Regular Schedule".*


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tmtech_
> *Just clearing is enough... Then make sure 11-1 is in CIR.*



Got it! Finally, all locals in HD and guide data!


----------



## jgrahamiii




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MidVill_
> *I will be moving to East Meadow, NY next month, does anyone know a good antenna to use for OTA? The wife is pretty against a roof mount so I'm hoping something like a Silver Sensor or an attic mount would work. Thanks for your help.*



Works pretty well in Glen Head (second story). I'm about 21 miles from the ESB. At this point, I can't get CBS and sometimes lose FOX. But I think I may just need to move the antenna around a bit. More after this weekend.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MidVill_
> *I will be moving to East Meadow, NY next month, does anyone know a good antenna to use for OTA? The wife is pretty against a roof mount so I'm hoping something like a Silver Sensor or an attic mount would work. Thanks for your help.*




I live in Levittown, about 1/2 mile North of Hempstead Tpke just east of Wantagh Pkwy. My wife is crazy about antennas (Dont get me started). So I have a Silver Sensor peeking out most of the way from an attic vent and I can get 2,4,5,7,9,11


----------



## tvuser1

Is the combiner just for HD signals, or are others on it as well?


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tvuser1_
> *Is the combiner just for HD signals, or are others on it as well?*



Good question but I think it is just for digital transmission. The only channel left that is scheduled to go on is WNETDT.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tvuser1_
> *Is the combiner just for HD signals, or are others on it as well?*



The combiner is for digital signals only. Whether or not a digital station broadcasts any HD programs is another story. Currently all stations on the combiner also broadcast some of their programming in HD.


----------



## michaelk

I beleive their are TWO combiners one for digital and one for the analog. there's a link to an article around her somewhere...


Incidently the digital one at least it is like 2 joined units too for redundancy. THe article was pretty neat - i think it could use one half to feed all the channels to both halves of the antenna. It could sent some channels to each of the 2 parts of the combiner to both halves of the antena, or it could send some channels to one side of the combine rto half the antenna and the other channels to the other side to the other half of the antenna.


----------



## TVjazzman

 http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...s_Empire.shtml 


There may be others out there, but this is the one I posted on an earlier page and has a wealth of information...


good viewing to all...


----------



## michaelk

thanks!


that's the article i was talking about.


----------



## mikeny

I seemed to have lost UPN WWOR-DT, 9.1 a few days ago. It had been consistently at about 71. Now it's in the 30s and 40s. I know it was reported that they were at full power. Hopefully there is still some tinkering going on.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mikeny_
> *I seemed to have lost UPN WWOR-DT, 9.1 a few days ago. It had been consistently at about 71. Now it's in the 30s and 40s. I know it was reported that they were at full power. Hopefully there is still some tinkering going on.*



I watched Enterprise last night via OTA and the reception was flawless as was the show. What a shame UPN cancelled it.


----------



## slocko

Agree, agree. Great 3 episode arc.










Are all the stations done with the work on the combiner???


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by slocko_
> *Are all the stations done with the work on the combiner???*



I hope not because I still have big problems receiving the WB (11-1).


----------



## acebreathe

Help. I have a Samsung T165 and a Dish 811. With the T165 the reception is flawless, and I've been getting all the stations at about 80% strength and up. With the 811 only CBS and WPIX come in strong at about 77%, everything else is at 40-59%. I rebooted the receiver and did a new channel scan. Nothing changed. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance. JS


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mondesign_
> *Can anyone explain the apparent differences in audio levels on the various NYC DTV stations? I put a scope on my STB audio output and found a 10 dB difference in the peak audio level between WNBC and WCBS . The other stations fall in between in level with WCBS the highest. There does not seem to be any uniformity in audio level as is found on the analog channels. Is there any requirement in the ATSC standard that audio be transmitted at a uniform reference level?
> 
> 
> Mike*



The answer is yes and no. All DTV audio doesn't have to be transmitted at a "reference" level, but there are mechanisms built into the DTV audio system to accommodate different audio levels. The Dolby web site used to have information about it, as they designed the audio system for DTV. It's also the same system that is used on DVDs.


Analog (broadcast) TV used to have a limit of "100% modulation" for audio, but if you surf your cable system you'll find big volume differences there, too. The DTV standard that the FCC adopted has rules about how the audio system is to be used that can make audio more uniform, but it is unclear when (if ever) they will enforce those rules.


You seem to be new here. Is this the biggest problem you have "seen" in HDTV?


----------



## wojtek

Guys:


I am in Jersey City with a direct line-of-sight to the ESB (waterfront). I have always had good reception of the three majors (CBS, NBC, ABC). I use the Silver Sensor. Now have I lost NBC and ABC (a few days now).


I am lucky that the Grammys are on CBS, or my wife would not be happy at all.


Is this what the combiner is all about? What is going on? I get Channel 2, 5, 9, 11, and 13 just fine, but not NBC or ABC.


----------



## John Mason




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wojtek_
> *I am in Jersey City with a direct line-of-sight to the ESB (waterfront). I have always had good reception of the three majors (CBS, NBC, ABC). I use the Silver Sensor. Now have I lost NBC and ABC (a few days now).
> 
> 
> Is this what the combiner is all about? What is going on? I get Channel 2, 5, 9, 11, and 13 just fine, but not NBC or ABC.*



Whatever they're doing, hope they'll throw in an extra tweak so those near the ESB can enjoy reception, too. Maybe maximum power will do it.


Still can only tune CBS from a north-facing location only 9 blocks from the antennas (using building reflections). Happily discovered I was getting a fairly good reading, more stable than CBS, for WPIX. But while the reading is good there are zero images, not even a flicker. With the same hardware (Silver Sensor, Philips RPTV built-in tuner), I used to get ABC/NBC from the World Trade Tower beamed into mid-town Manhattan. Cable TV, fortunately, delivers most HD, but not channels 9 and 11. -- John


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *The answer is yes and no. All DTV audio doesn't have to be transmitted at a "reference" level, but there are mechanisms built into the DTV audio system to accommodate different audio levels. The Dolby web site used to have information about it, as they designed the audio system for DTV. It's also the same system that is used on DVDs.
> 
> 
> Analog (broadcast) TV used to have a limit of "100% modulation" for audio, but if you surf your cable system you'll find big volume differences there, too. The DTV standard that the FCC adopted has rules about how the audio system is to be used that can make audio more uniform, but it is unclear when (if ever) they will enforce those rules.
> 
> 
> You seem to be new here. Is this the biggest problem you have "seen" in HDTV?*



Thanks for the info. Aside from the frequent changes in PSIP data recently which require constant rescanning of channels on my STBs, the audio differences are the only minor complaint I have with OTA HDTV. I have been experimenting with it for about a year and considering that DTV broadcasting is still in its rollout phase, it is remarkable how well it does work. I am about 20-25 miles north of midtown and receive all of the area stations solid with an old attic mounted VHF-UHF antenna.


I did a little checking in the ATSC Recommended practice standard A/54A and found the following:



6.5.1 Loudness Normalization


"It is important for the digital television system to provide uniform subjective loudness for all audio programs. Consumers find it very annoying when audio levels fluctuate between broadcast channels (observed when channel hopping), or between program segments on a particularchannel (commercials much louder than the entertainment). One element that is found in most audio programming is the human voice. Achieving an approximate level match for dialogue (spoken in a normal voice, not shouting or whispering) amongst all audio programming is a desirable goal. The AC-3 audio system provides syntactical elements that make this goal achievable.


There is (currently) no regulatory limit as to how loud dialogue may be in an encoded bitstream. Since the digital audio coding system can provide more than 100 dB of dynamic range, there is no technical reason for dialogue to be encoded anywhere near 100% as is commonly done in NTSC television. However, there is no assurance that all program channels, or all programs or program segments on a given channel, will have dialogue encoded at the same (or even similar) level. Lacking a uniform coding level for dialogue (which would imply a uniform headroom available for all programs) there would be inevitable audio level fluctuations between program channels or even between program segments.


Encoded AC-3 elementary bit streams are tagged with an indication (dialnorm) of the subjective level at which dialogue has been encoded. Different audio programs may be encoded with differing amounts of headroom above the level of dialogue in order to allow for dynamic music and sound effects. The digital television receiver (and all AC-3 decoders) are able to use the value of dialnorm to adjust the reproduced level of audio programs so that different received programs have their spoken dialogue reproduced at a uniform level. Some receiver designs may even offer the listener an audio volume control calibrated in absolute sound pressure level. The listener could dial up the desired SPL for dialogue, and the receiver would scale the level of every decoded audio program so that the dialogue is always reproduced at the desired level."



Although it may not be actually mandated, it would be nice if the area DTV broadcasters would get together and adjust their Dolby encoders so that there was some uniformity of audio level between them. The difference is most obvious with WNBC-DT 4.1 and 4.2, whose audio is noticeably lower than the rest of the area DTV stations.


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mondesign_
> *The difference is most obvious with WNBC-DT 4.1 and 4.2, whose audio is noticeably lower than the rest of the area DTV stations.*



And WCBS-DT which _cranks_ their audio... Interesting info, thanks. Dan


----------



## DanC-P

The thing that bugs me the most about OTA HDTV in NYC is the lack of easily accessible PBS in HD (that's a lot of abbreviations!). I can't get any PBS signal in Brooklyn, be it from Jersey (althought for a brief wonderful moment I had WNJN) or NY... I wish 13 would hurry up and join the combiner!


----------



## Steve L

Looks like we'll be lucky to get WNET in HD before the summer. /steve

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...11#post5146911


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mondesign_
> *....
> 
> 
> Although it may not be actually mandated, it would be nice if the area DTV broadcasters would get together and adjust their Dolby encoders so that there was some uniformity of audio level between them. The difference is most obvious with WNBC-DT 4.1 and 4.2, whose audio is noticeably lower than the rest of the area DTV stations.*



The way I read those recommendations, it really doesn't matter how loud a program is, as long as it is accompanied by the proper loudness value (the Dialnorm parameter.) If the Dialog number for each station matches the actual loudness (regardless of how loud it may be) then each station will be heard at the same loudness by the listener. You can still crank your volume control to whatever level is comfortable for you, but at least all stations will be at that same level. At least those stations that are following the standard correctly, that is.


Engineers at TV stations are usually a cooperative bunch of people. Let's hope they can get together on this.


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wojtek_
> *Guys:
> 
> 
> I am in Jersey City with a direct line-of-sight to the ESB (waterfront). I have always had good reception of the three majors (CBS, NBC, ABC). I use the Silver Sensor. Now have I lost NBC and ABC (a few days now).
> 
> 
> I am lucky that the Grammys are on CBS, or my wife would not be happy at all.
> 
> 
> Is this what the combiner is all about? What is going on? I get Channel 2, 5, 9, 11, and 13 just fine, but not NBC or ABC.*



Does anybody else in North Jersey have problems with NBC and ABC right now? Are their signals stronger or weaker compared to pre-combiner era?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *The thing that bugs me the most about OTA HDTV in NYC is the lack of easily accessible PBS in HD (that's a lot of abbreviations!). I can't get any PBS signal in Brooklyn, be it from Jersey (althought for a brief wonderful moment I had WNJN) or NY... I wish 13 would hurry up and join the combiner!*



Have you tried NJN? They only broadcast HD in prime-time, but it's better than nothing.


----------



## George Thompson

You should have a stronger signal from WNBC-DT from the ESB while WABC-DT would be similar. Jersey City is in City Grade contour and not affected by the move. Further out on the grade B and Fringe contours would be affected.

We were talking about this last week at work. Antennas like WNBC-DT on the GE building are considered in 'free space', on top of a mast. I am not sure about the Conte Nast antenna for WABC-DT. However, the flat panel antennas for the digital stations from the combiner are mounted on the mast on standoffs. Not in free space and subject to mast dispersion which is frequency dependent. This means that each station will have a slightly different radiating pattern depending upon their frequency and the distance the panel is mounted from the mast.

There is an interaction that causes reflections from the radiating panel to the mast to the panel (kind of like feedback) to disperse in different directions depending upon the wavelength of the carrier. This means that some stations will be stronger than others at a distance. They will not all have the same signal strength.

When all stations are at full power, field strength measurements will be taken to verify the contours for each transmitter. Now adays this can be done by plane or helicopter. I remember driving around for days at a time to predetermined locations and taking reading...... Real fun.

Anyway, I just though some of you might be interested in a possible explanation to different signal levels from the same antenna.

George

For a better explanation
http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/contour.asp


----------



## Chriš2

This question gets asked all the time, but I don't think it's ever been answered.


It's been about two months now since we saw the first stations come up on the combiner, yet everything is still at 1/2 power? What is going on? Will we EVER see full power? Trying to watch Enterprise on Friday night (in southwestern CT) was just a disaster, dropouts every 10 seconds. I even got back up on the roof in the freezing temps and tried to re-aim. Nothing but frustration (I'm also using channelmaster preamp/amp combo). After that I was ready to throw the whole setup out the window.


How much longer do they need to "test", or is there something else holding back the power increase (such licensing, construction, etc)?


----------



## Maynard

Chris,


I am glad to hear I am not the only one adjusting my antenna to get Enterprise without breakups all the time...

I am at the point where I have my MCE PC record both the HD and the Analog because the HD is unwatchable.


I am in the Newtown area, and I keep my fingers crossed that this will be resovled before the end of enterprise....


-Maynard


----------



## SnellKrell

George, beside "free space," "mast dispersion" and allocated frequency, if I'm correct, as a non-engineer, each station on the Combiner has a different FCC authorized level of ERP. From what I've been able to research, the maximum power levels for stations currently on the Combiner are:


WCBS-DT - 349kW

WABC-DT - 219kW

WWOR-DT - 170kW

WPIX-DT - 160 kW


I cannot find any information for WNBC-DT. When this station is at full power, what will that ERP be?


Thanks as always for your help.


Gary


----------



## antneye

I am not sure if this is my reception or something with my box (DIRECTV, Samsung). Thrilled to see the combiner done and all my ota stations coming in clear as a bell. Now I get reception, but I have lost all audio on my OTA stations. Is anyone else having this problem? Is it a combiner glitch? Heres the weird part. I get no audio on 4-1, but i get audio on 4-2. 5-1, no audio, but 5-2 audio. same for 9-1, 9-2 7-1,7-2, basically i am not getting audio on the -1's, but i get it on the -2's. Sat audio is fine. Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## SnellKrell

All of my audio is just fine. Your receiver may be having trouble with the PSIPs. The only things that I can think of is first to re-scan channels and if that doesn't work, try to re-set the receiver, after that, pull the A.C. plug and keep it disconnected for - try 15 minutes.


I wish you luck,


Gary


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chriš_
> *It's been about two months now since we saw the first stations come up on the combiner, yet everything is still at 1/2 power?*



I was told today that WWOR-DT and WCBS-DT are at full power. The rest are not.


----------



## Infominister

Last night, for the first time, I got reception on both WPIX-DT and WWOR-DT. (The digital stations of WCBS, WNYW and WABC, have remained fairly reliable.) Both 9-1 and 11-1 broke up quite a bit with 11-1 the worst of the two. Still nothing for me on WNBC-DT but a blip of yellow in the signal meter. Anyway, neither is watchable for a long period of time yet, but it was good to see pictures on both and led me to think that progress is being made. I don't really watch much, if any, programming on the WB or UPN, but it's good to know they're there -- especially with the Yankees set for WWOR on Friday nights starting in the spring. BTW, the engineer for WWOR told me that the games will NOT be in HD.


----------



## SnellKrell

Don't get too excited - it was raining last night!


I've been told that the amount of humidity in the air affects the propagation of digital signals.


My understanding is that WWOR-DT is already at full power - and that WPIX-DT is operating at less than full power.


I'm sure there's a lot of fine-tuning to be done at the ESB, but be prepared to think about a different antenna.


Sorry for the not so good news!


Gary


----------



## GORD160

With WPIX on the combiner, reclame your old AUX antanna on the ESB,

obtain STA from the FCC for channal 12, and have a go with 125 watts.


Should be fast and cheap.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Don't get too excited - it was raining last night!
> 
> 
> I've been told that the amount of humidity in the air affects the propagation of digital signals.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Maybe this is a dumb question, but if so, then why do satellite signals suffer in the rain?


----------



## SnellKrell

s2silber:


I'm not an engineer - but here goes - different frequencies; and we're talking 22,000+ miles in space for satellites.


Where's George? We need you to wade in here!



Gord160:


Good shot.


More than likely, not only has the new transmitter been ordered, let's hope it's on its way.


With low power, 13 feels and probably also to appease the FCC, its first responsibility is to the city to which it's licensed - Newark.


Also, they station would have to incur additional costs.


The latest from the White House has reduced the funding of PBS stations conversion to digital by 25%! Ouch.


I applaud your inventive thinking!


Gary


----------



## George Thompson

Propagation 101
http://www.anarc.org/wtfda/propagation.htm 


Basically the higher the frequency the more attenuated the signal will be with moisture of any kind. If you pick up the ARRL Antenna Handbook or UHF manual there are charts for frequency vs moisture vs attenuation.

Being that sats work in C or Ku band ~2-14 GigHz, these microwave frequencies are highly subject to outages due to rain cells. C band less susceptible. In fact, dual receive sites are needed for some affiliates to overcome heavy Ku band rain outages, Miami for instance. These sites may be 10 to 15 miles apart I believe.

Even at UHF frequencies, heavy rain will affect digital television signals more so than analog.

Just a brief explanation.

George


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wojtek_
> *Does anybody else in North Jersey have problems with NBC and ABC right now? Are their signals stronger or weaker compared to pre-combiner era?*



I didn't get NBC at all before the combiner and still don't get it now. I got ABC just fine before the combiner, and I still get it just fine.


----------



## jcord51

It really would be nice to get an update on NBC, I've read that they are at 50% (info was from this forum). Their Website is no help!


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *especially with the Yankees set for WWOR on Friday nights starting in the spring. BTW, the engineer for WWOR told me that the games will NOT be in HD.*



Boooooooooooooo (not you, s2silber, but rather the powers that be)


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *You should have a stronger signal from WNBC-DT from the ESB while WABC-DT would be similar. Jersey City is in City Grade contour and not affected by the move. Further out on the grade B and Fringe contours would be affected.
> 
> We were talking about this last week at work. Antennas like WNBC-DT on the GE building are considered in 'free space', on top of a mast. I am not sure about the Conte Nast antenna for WABC-DT. However, the flat panel antennas for the digital stations from the combiner are mounted on the mast on standoffs. Not in free space and subject to mast dispersion which is frequency dependent. This means that each station will have a slightly different radiating pattern depending upon their frequency and the distance the panel is mounted from the mast.
> 
> There is an interaction that causes reflections from the radiating panel to the mast to the panel (kind of like feedback) to disperse in different directions depending upon the wavelength of the carrier. This means that some stations will be stronger than others at a distance. They will not all have the same signal strength.
> 
> When all stations are at full power, field strength measurements will be taken to verify the contours for each transmitter. Now adays this can be done by plane or helicopter. I remember driving around for days at a time to predetermined locations and taking reading...... Real fun.
> 
> Anyway, I just though some of you might be interested in a possible explanation to different signal levels from the same antenna.
> 
> George
> 
> For a better explanation
> http://www.dielectric.com/broadcast/contour.asp *



Thanks, George.


I moved my Silver Sensor around, re-scanned, and actually picked up both NBC and ABC, with "good" signal strength. I guess with the combiner up and running I was expecting good reception no matter what (after all, I have an unobstructed view of the skyline). Not being able to pick up the Oscars in HD and having explain it to wife is scary


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Propagation 101
> http://www.anarc.org/wtfda/propagation.htm
> 
> 
> Basically the higher the frequency the more attenuated the signal will be with moisture of any kind. If you pick up the ARRL Antenna Handbook or UHF manual there are charts for frequency vs moisture vs attenuation.
> 
> Being that sats work in C or Ku band ~2-14 GigHz, these microwave frequencies are highly subject to outages due to rain cells. C band less susceptible. In fact, dual receive sites are needed for some affiliates to overcome heavy Ku band rain outages, Miami for instance. These sites may be 10 to 15 miles apart I believe.
> 
> Even at UHF frequencies, heavy rain will affect digital television signals more so than analog.
> 
> Just a brief explanation.
> 
> George*



George:


Always great info, thank you. I have a slightly different problem, my CBS seems to be affected by propogation , NBC hardly steady , but ABC solid and strong as well as all the rest. Wouldn't it follow that lower frequency stations would be stronger?


I lose CBS as the day progresses, and ABC never waivers...


Any thoughts?


TV JAzzman


----------



## George Thompson

Jazz,

Off the top of my head you seem too close to be affected by atmospherics, although not to be ruled out. I would suspect Electro-Magnetic Interference(EMI) of some sort too. We live in a highly polluted rf environment. Everything from cell phones, BPL and type 15 devices are overwhelming our spectrum. Try scanning with a general coverage receiver and listen to all the birdies, whistles, bleeps and clicks...LOL. UHF is funny and in a constant state of flux. General rule of thumb.... Get your directional antenna up high and spin it around. This may be meaningless if you have a strong rf source nearby. What can I say.

George

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/02/08/100/?nc=1


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TVjazzman_
> *George:
> 
> 
> Always great info, thank you. I have a slightly different problem, my CBS seems to be affected by propogation , NBC hardly steady , but ABC solid and strong as well as all the rest. Wouldn't it follow that lower frequency stations would be stronger?
> 
> 
> I lose CBS as the day progresses, and ABC never waivers...
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> TV JAzzman*



I am across the Hudson from you in Westchester, near the Tappan Zee Bridge and definitely notice propagation effects on WCBS-DT Ch 56. A couple of nights ago when we had the rainstorm, WCBS was dropping out periodically, not from signal strength but from severe multipath. At the same time, analog stations like CH 68 which are usually received solidly, were unwatchable due to ghosting and phase cancellation effects.


I will be looking at the received DTV signals with an RF spectrum analyzer to see just how much the signals vary with propagation and weather. When I checked this morning, WCBS-DT had a strong signal (-50 dBm) with very little multipath. I will check again tonight and see if there is any difference, as it is supposed to rain again.


Mike


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mondesign_
> *I am across the Hudson from you in Westchester, near the Tappan Zee Bridge and definitely notice propagation effects on WCBS-DT Ch 56. A couple of nights ago when we had the rainstorm, WCBS was dropping out periodically, not from signal strength but from severe multipath. At the same time, analog stations like CH 68 which are usually received solidly, were unwatchable due to ghosting and phase cancellation effects.
> 
> 
> I will be looking at the received DTV signals with an RF spectrum analyzer to see just how much the signals vary with propagation and weather. When I checked this morning, WCBS-DT had a strong signal (-50 dBm) with very little multipath. I will check again tonight and see if there is any difference, as it is supposed to rain again.
> 
> 
> Mike*



I have a similar problem with WCBS-DT. I use a Fusion 3 card that reports a 100% OR 32.5dB signal strength during dry weather. As soon as it rains the signal bounces all over the place and becomes unusable. I posted this issue awhile back to see if I was the only one experiencing this phenomenon.

I assume I am experiencing multipath that shows up only when everything gets wet and becomes more reflective. I also assumed that this problem was specific to my location. If others are seeing this problem please post. Mike, It will be interesting to hear your results.

Phil


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *BTW, the engineer for WWOR told me that the games will NOT be in HD.*



anyone here if YES network will be in HD anywhere this year?


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> *anyone here if YES network will be in HD anywhere this year?*



Nope, and the games on WWOR will be in SD as well.


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Nope, and the games on WWOR will be in SD as well.*



Is it crazy to think that with the launch of spaceway I & II, D* will be able to hopefully have hd games in 2006?


Also with the Sports HD CHannel on D*being open during the summer, perhaps they'll pull an occassional game for people from all the channels that broadcast their local games in HD.


Justa thought for those of us with D*


Doug


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phil Hightech_
> *I have a similar problem with WCBS-DT. I use a Fusion 3 card that reports a 100% OR 32.5dB signal strength during dry weather. As soon as it rains the signal bounces all over the place and becomes unusable. I posted this issue awhile back to see if I was the only one experiencing this phenomenon.
> 
> I assume I am experiencing multipath that shows up only when everything gets wet and becomes more reflective. I also assumed that this problem was specific to my location. If others are seeing this problem please post. Mike, It will be interesting to hear your results.
> 
> Phil*



Did you ever explore the possibility you might have some bad connections allowing moisture into the cabling around the connectors?


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Did you ever explore the possibility you might have some bad connections allowing moisture into the cabling around the connectors?*



Thanks for your response. Everything is new, cable, connectors and antenna. I've been trying to experiment as best I can but the fact that the problem shows up only in the rain literally puts a damper on my scientific method. At this point, I'm sure the problem is not on my end. That's why I'm leaning toward the mulipath explanation. What's strange is that it seems I'm not the only one experiencing reception issues with WCBS-DT. I've tried a RS corner reflector and a VHF/UHF combo antenna. Both give the same result.

Today I switched to a SS-1000. I understand that it has circular polarization so it might perform differently with multipath. The next step for me will be to relocate the mast to a different part of the roof. I wasn't home for the rain this afternoon so I'll have to wait to see if anything has changed.

-Phil


----------



## TVjazzman

Rockland County Update:


This evening , WCBS -DT is doing numbers for me in the mid to high 60's, then losing lock, then close to those numbers again, WNBC-DT is down between low to mid 40's, ( I need at least mid 50's for DT reception on Toshiba RPTV), Fox normally a solid contender at mid to high 60's is under 50 to low 40's and no lock, and WABC-DT my solid contender is pulling higher than ever at 78-82, and normally at high 60's and steady as a rock...


Fox must be testing because never have had a problem before, CBS was steady for the Grammy's at high 50's low 60's and WNBC is a usual not ready for the party.


And yet, there have been days that NBC (though rarest) has been high 50's low 60's and as I've written, CBS in the morning, is much better, ie high 50's low 60's...


Propogation? I'll have to read my materials again... New antenna, new connectors, and changes at will, I keep waiting for the word that the combiner work has ended so that i know what I have...



"And the wind cries Mary"


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phil Hightech_
> *I have a similar problem with WCBS-DT. I use a Fusion 3 card that reports a 100% OR 32.5dB signal strength during dry weather. As soon as it rains the signal bounces all over the place and becomes unusable. I posted this issue awhile back to see if I was the only one experiencing this phenomenon.
> 
> I assume I am experiencing multipath that shows up only when everything gets wet and becomes more reflective. I also assumed that this problem was specific to my location. If others are seeing this problem please post. Mike, It will be interesting to hear your results.
> 
> Phil*



Unfortunately I did not get home until after the rain stopped today, but even so I did see some dynamic multipath on the higher UHF channels with the analyzer tonight. Ideally a DTV signal should appear as a flat topped trace over its 5.3 MHz bandwidth. This is what I pretty much saw this morning, with only 1 or 2 dB of ripples on the flat top. When I looked tonight the signal certainly looked much different. Over the course of a few seconds, the trace would tilt in one direction by 10 dB, then develop a -15 dB notch in the middle, then reverse and tilt in the opposite direction. During all this, my STB never lost lock on the signal, so I can only assume that the disturbances a couple of nights ago were much worse when I actually experienced dropouts.


I have a feeling that we are seeing this on WCBS CH 56 since it is the highest frequency presently used for DTV in the NYC area. I did notice similar effects on the lower channels but it was much less severe and hardly noticeable by the time I got down to WNBC at CH 28.


It seems you are on the right track by changing antennas and possibly moving it to a different location on the roof. You probably have multipath at all times on WCBS, but it is usually within the range that can be compensated by the equalizer in your receiver. When the atmospheric conditions change, the multipath increases beyond what the equalizer can handle and you lose the signal.


Let us know the results of the changes with the antenna.


Mike


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Nope, and the games on WWOR will be in SD as well.*



Nope means you haven't heard anything?


or Nope means you heard and Yes HD will only be availible in George's private suite same as last year?


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by michaelk_
> *Nope means you haven't heard anything?
> 
> 
> or Nope means you heard and Yes HD will only be availible in George's private suite same as last year?*



Sorry, I should have been clearer and less absolute. Although there continue to be rumors (as there were last season) about YES being carried in HD, there have been no announcements from YES or the Yankees. There is a thread about this on the YES network web site if you are interested:

http://boards.yesnetwork.com/forums/...howtopic=13032


----------



## jbjbjbjb

TVjazzman

I'm also in Rockland County. I never had a problem with my signal strength. I'm using an attic installed RS 15-2160 (UHF yagi). 56-1 is always my stongest at 82% never had dropoffs, FOX is 77%. ABC is 75% and WOR is 68%. Was getting NBC & NJN at 63% but lost the signal for the last 3 weeks. They must have dropped the power. Never got PIX. Also getting 30-1, 40-1 , 48-1 and 68-1 at 70-75%.


----------



## Infominister

I think there is a good chance that DirecTV will carry Yankee games on YES in HD -- IF they do expand the number of HD channels as they've been promising. WWOR is another matter. They simply elected not to broadcast their share of the games in HD.


----------



## dasoccerguy07

i have an HD cable box from cablevision. ive had it for a year and have no problems with the audio until a month or so ago, when i noticed a hissing sound comming from the speakers. i figured it could have been the surround sound system so i went out and bought a new surround sound system, and i still heard a hissing sound. i also have my dvd player hooked up to my surround sound, and i dont hear a hiss then, which leads me to belive its a problem with the cable box. can anyone tell me what the problem might be and how i can fix it. email me back at [email protected]


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dasoccerguy07_
> *i have an HD cable box from cablevision. ive had it for a year and have no problems with the audio until a month or so ago, when i noticed a hissing sound comming from the speakers. i figured it could have been the surround sound system so i went out and bought a new surround sound system, and i still heard a hissing sound. i also have my dvd player hooked up to my surround sound, and i dont hear a hiss then, which leads me to belive its a problem with the cable box. can anyone tell me what the problem might be and how i can fix it. email me back at [email protected] *



You would probably get a better response to this question if you post it to the Cablevision NYC group here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...cablevision+ny 


or on the Yahoo! cablevision_digital group.


Good luck,


Dan


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jbjbjbjb_
> *TVjazzman
> 
> I'm also in Rockland County. I never had a problem with my signal strength. I'm using an attic installed RS 15-2160 (UHF yagi). 56-1 is always my stongest at 82% never had dropoffs, FOX is 77%. ABC is 75% and WOR is 68%. Was getting NBC & NJN at 63% but lost the signal for the last 3 weeks. They must have dropped the power. Never got PIX. Also getting 30-1, 40-1 , 48-1 and 68-1 at 70-75%.*



jbjbjbjb:


Your just down the road, I'm in Chestnut Ridge, funny how so close can have such different readings. I have a 8 bow outdoor ChannelMaster, with a Winegard amplifier, previous to that arrangement, I had a high powered VHF/UHF antenna with a Winegardf pre-amp with similar results. a


Funny, I ave always had a WPIX-DT, never a problem with them whether VHF and then UHF and you never got it. We're max 3-4 miles apart... Funny how that works...Tonight, I have a strong NBC which as I have written is always questionable, very strong Fox and ABC and still lower CBS 56-1.


And your antenna is in the attic!!


The other channels you mention come in enough to register on the meter but never any signal to speak of ( 0-low 30's). Never have gotten NJN digital, NEVER!!!


----------



## DjPiLL

Can somebody help me with a simple/dumb question.


I read somewhere that after July 2005... there are some new laws going into effect regarding HD OTA programming. Something about the legality of being able to receive it.


Can someone enlighten me on what this is all about? TIA


----------



## George Thompson

As of yesterday, WNBC-DT is at full power. 200KW erp with an omnidirectional pattern.

George


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DjPiLL_
> *Can somebody help me with a simple/dumb question.
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that after July 2005... there are some new laws going into effect regarding HD OTA programming. Something about the legality of being able to receive it.
> 
> 
> Can someone enlighten me on what this is all about? TIA*



I believe you are referring to the Broadcast Flag requirement, which is supposed to take effect July 2005. This is something which will be included in the PSIP data by the broadcasters to prevent unauthorized content distribution via the internet. Do a search on the forum for "broadcast flag" and you will find a lot of info.


Mike


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aup_
> *Hi Martin!
> 
> Yes, got it. I wasn't sure in what ways you had meant that antennaweb was wrong. Doesn't appear that antenna orientation is one of them, at least in comparison to the 2150 site. Completeness is certainly an issue, although in my current situation, I don't even receive all the antennaweb stations, let alone the others listed on 2150.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Chris.*



Newbie here - confused again. I set up my antenna rotator and antenna so that at the 000 setting, the antenna is pointing north (according to a compass).


For example, antennaweb.org says that WPIX is 3.9 miles from my home at 70 degrees compass orientation (magnetic north) while the 2150 site says I'm also 3.9 miles but the direction 57.6 degrees (I used declination of zero). Since magnetic declination for my area is 13 degrees, I figured that if I entered the magnetic declination at the 2150 site, I'd get the 70 degrees matching antennaweb.org. Of course, when I used using 13 degree magnetic declination it came back with 44.6 degrees.


This is basically the same for all of my locals.


Can I assume that 57 degrees is where I should be pointed?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Newbie here - confused again. I set up my antenna rotator and antenna so that at the 000 setting, the antenna is pointing north (according to a compass).
> 
> 
> For example, antennaweb.org says that WPIX is 3.9 miles from my home at 70 degrees compass orientation (magnetic north) while the 2150 site says I'm also 3.9 miles but the direction 57.6 degrees (I used declination of zero). Since magnetic declination for my area is 13 degrees, I figured that if I entered the magnetic declination at the 2150 site, I'd get the 70 degrees matching antennaweb.org. Of course, when I used using 13 degree magnetic declination it came back with 44.6 degrees.
> 
> 
> This is basically the same for all of my locals.
> 
> 
> Can I assume that 57 degrees is where I should be pointed?*



Your magnetic declination in the NY/NJ area is -13 degrees (well, roughly, it'd vary by exactly where you are, but -13 is the right range).


----------



## Paperboy2003




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *As of yesterday, WNBC-DT is at full power. 200KW erp with an omnidirectional pattern.
> 
> George*



...and I still don't get it!! I receive all the others, just not NBC.....good thing I get it from D*. It's odd though, I guess I'm in a void of some sort??


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Your magnetic declination in the NY/NJ area is -13 degrees (well, roughly, it'd vary by exactly where you are, but -13 is the right range).*



I apologize for being so thick.


Is antennaweb.org taking that into account when it tells me WPIX is at 70 degrees? Strictly going by a compass, should I always subtract 13 from anything antennaweb.org says?


----------



## daoust501

I have an attic mounted Silver Sensor with a CM 7775 preamp connected to a dishnetwork 921 receiver. I get CBS, FOX, ABC and UPN no problem. PIX is hit or miss (mostly miss) and NBC is right next to never. My zip is 07946. Why is it that transmissions from the same general direction (NYC) can be so different on the receiving end?


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *...and I still don't get it!! I receive all the others, just not NBC.....good thing I get it from D*. It's odd though, I guess I'm in a void of some sort??*



I must be in the same void. I get every other network from the combiner. No NBC-DT. Not even last night.


----------



## jcord51

Using a 921 for OTA and still no NBD, mine you I live 9 mile from ESB. Is it still at freg. 28? And btw thanks for the update, you're just the messenger


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Sorry, I should have been clearer and less absolute. Although there continue to be rumors (as there were last season) about YES being carried in HD, there have been no announcements from YES or the Yankees. There is a thread about this on the YES network web site if you are interested:
> 
> http://boards.yesnetwork.com/forums/...howtopic=13032 *




thanks for the link.


there used to be a thread here but the mods didnt like it so they locked it.


----------



## newhdcrt

As of right now I am receiving WNBC-D New york at 90-100 strength on a dish 921 about 20 miles from NY. The 921 sees it at channel 28 and remaps to oo4-1


This is the firsttime I have been able to receive it.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *As of yesterday, WNBC-DT is at full power. 200KW erp with an omnidirectional pattern.
> 
> George*




George- you posted in a D* PQ thread that "stations" went full power.


Was that a typo or did someone else besides NBC do it?


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *I apologize for being so thick.
> 
> 
> Is antennaweb.org taking that into account when it tells me WPIX is at 70 degrees? Strictly going by a compass, should I always subtract 13 from anything antennaweb.org says?*



With 0 magnetic declination, 2150 was telling you 57.6 degrees, so since you should have used -13, add 13 to the original value... 57.6 + 13 = 70.6 degrees.


Go to www.2150.com/broadcast and use -13 and it should be giving you around 70.6 degrees as the compass heading you want to aim at.


Since you're so close to the transmitters, it's important to get your lat/long correct to get aiming info; did you look at the street level map to ensure it did? I just ran both for my address and the aiming info came out within 0.5 degrees, so they're definitely accounting for magnetic declination automatically.


You might go to http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp and double-check your magnetic declination with your exact lat/long, too.


I actually had worked out a way to do that too just haven't gotten around to updating the script on 2150.com to do it yet.


----------



## BuzaidC

Hey dswallow,


what a cool website. Thanks!!


----------



## pmalve

I can't receive WNBC either. I live in Bethlehem CT 76 miles from ESB. I know this is kind of the limit for digital signals but I have good height and line of sight from my house to NYC. WWOR and WCBS register around 90 strength on my Voom receiver with 100 being the top limit. Also get WABC and WNYW with no problem either even thought they are not on the combiner. Don't have multi-path issues out here in the country, no tall buildings. How could WNBC have a different range than the others if they are broadcasting from same antenna. Signal bounces from around 50 to 75. WPIX is around 75 right now. Hoping to get that when they boost power as i need 85 signal strength to lock signal. I even get channel 68 although I am not sure where there antenna is. Sometimes even get NJN from NJ.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC is on the Combiner.


This has been discussed numerous times here - although all stations using WCBS-DT's antenna on the ESB, known as the Combiner project, each

transmits at a different frequency at with different FCC authorized

power. And what I'm learning is that transmitting digital signals on UHF many times lacks logic and can drive you crazy!


Gary


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> 
> And what I'm learning is that transmitting digital signals on UHF many times lacks logic and can drive you crazy!
> 
> 
> Gary [/b]



I read something recently that broadcasters will have to decide whether they want to keep their new digital channel assignment after analog broadcasting is discontinued, or transmit DTV on their old analog channel. They will have to return one of their assigned channels to the FCC. Given the seeming unreliability of DTV on UHF, I wonder if any of the NYC broadcasters are considering returning to their old VHF channels for DTV in the future?


I get amazingly reliable reception of WPIX-DT on VHF channel 12 even though they are only running an ERP of 125 Watts, while I get occasional dropouts of the UHF stations with ERPs over a quarter million Watts!


It would be interesting to see what the DTV coverage and reliability would be like if they could broadcast on their VHF channels, with ERPs comparable to their present analog allocations.


Mike


----------



## SnellKrell

Mike -


Yes, broadcasters will be given the option of which allocation they want.


I've read, and heard directly from some station engineers, that they will not necessarily elect to use their VHF allocations.


There seems to be considerable problems with digital VHF transmission. It may be a bigger problem in the lower end of the band - channels 2-6. Not sure. I've read about major problems in Chicago where CBS (WBBM-DT) is on channel 3.


Never have been able to get reception on channel 12. Not sure if WPIX-DT is at full power yet on channel 33.


One good thing about UHF, though, is that the antennas are smaller!


Gary


----------



## jcord51




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by newhdcrt_
> *As of right now I am receiving WNBC-D New york at 90-100 strength on a dish 921 about 20 miles from NY. The 921 sees it at channel 28 and remaps to oo4-1
> 
> 
> This is the firsttime I have been able to receive it.*



Still no luck with WNBC. I went into the channel strengh menu and inputted 28 , with no signal strengh for that frequency. Thanks for reply, will keep on checking.


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Mike -
> 
> 
> Yes, broadcasters will be given the option of which allocation they want.
> 
> 
> I've read, and heard directly from some station engineers, that they will not necessarily elect to use their VHF allocations.
> 
> 
> There seems to be considerable problems with digital VHF transmission. It may be a bigger problem in the lower end of the band - channels 2-6. Not sure. I've read about major problems in Chicago where CBS (WBBM-DT) is on channel 3.
> 
> 
> Never have been able to get reception on channel 12. Not sure if WPIX-DT is at full power yet on channel 33.
> 
> 
> One good thing about UHF, though, is that the antennas are smaller!
> 
> 
> Gary*




I found this on the radio-info.com message board:


>


Subject: Digital Channel Elections for New York

Posted by: Trip Ericson

Posts: 484

Status: Offline

Posted on: 02/12/05 11:50 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Digital channel elections wound up on the 10th. Here's how NYC looks:


WCBS-?? (Elected to move on to round 2)

WNBC-28

WNYW-44

WABC-7

WWOR-9

WPIX-11

WNET-13

WLIW-21

WNYE-24

WPXN-31

WXTV-40

WSAH-42

WNJU-36

WEDW-49

WNJN-51

WTBY-27

WLIW-?? (Forced to move on to round 2)

WNJB-8

WRNN-48

WMBC-18

WFME-29

WFTY-23

WFUT-?? (Forced to move on to round 2)


- Trip



Seems that the decisions for the final DTV channel assignments have already been made!


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *With 0 magnetic declination, 2150 was telling you 57.6 degrees, so since you should have used -13, add 13 to the original value... 57.6 + 13 = 70.6 degrees.
> 
> 
> Go to www.2150.com/broadcast and use -13 and it should be giving you around 70.6 degrees as the compass heading you want to aim at.
> 
> 
> Since you're so close to the transmitters, it's important to get your lat/long correct to get aiming info; did you look at the street level map to ensure it did? I just ran both for my address and the aiming info came out within 0.5 degrees, so they're definitely accounting for magnetic declination automatically.
> 
> 
> You might go to http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp and double-check your magnetic declination with your exact lat/long, too.
> 
> 
> I actually had worked out a way to do that too just haven't gotten around to updating the script on 2150.com to do it yet.*



Thanks so much.


Belive it or not, for a few minutes, I was able to pick up channel 3 from Philadelphia with the CM4228. That's about 78 miles from me. Pretty cool.


Thanks again for the help.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mondesign_
> *I found this on the radio-info.com message board:
> 
> 
> >
> 
> 
> Subject: Digital Channel Elections for New York
> 
> Posted by: Trip Ericson
> 
> Posts: 484
> 
> Status: Offline
> 
> Posted on: 02/12/05 11:50 PM
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Digital channel elections wound up on the 10th. Here's how NYC looks:
> 
> 
> WLIW-21
> 
> ...
> 
> WTBY-27
> 
> WLIW-?? (Forced to move on to round 2)
> 
> WNJB-8
> 
> 
> - Trip
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that the decisions for the final DTV channel assignments have already been made!*



I always manage to mix up WLIW and WLNY... sorry about that.


And even more sorry I forgot to post it here... I KNEW I forgot to post it somewhere.


- Trip


----------



## newhdcrt

Well bye bye NBC. I have not been able to lock again since Saturday. Signal is currently fluctuating between 0 and 70. Obviously the work on the combiner is not completed.


----------



## ElVee

Is there any kind of Kw/Miles ratio to figure out what signals one can expect to recieve?


I can occasionally pick up channel 3 from Philadelphia (770Kw, 78 miles), yet can't pick up WNET (2.6 Kw, 4 miles), WLIW (80-92 Kw, 32 miles) and WLNY (30 Kw, 60 miles).


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Is there any kind of Kw/Miles ratio to figure out what signals one can expect to recieve?
> 
> 
> I can occasionally pick up channel 3 from Philadelphia (770Kw, 78 miles), yet can't pick up WNET (2.6 Kw, 4 miles), WLIW (80-92 Kw, 32 miles) and WLNY (30 Kw, 60 miles).*



You would also have to take height of the transmitting and receiving antennas into accout.


----------



## GSfromCT

Does anybody know the status of WNYW?

Have they sucessfully made the transition to 990kW?


----------



## SnellKrell

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. It is difficult for me to be sure with my crazy multipath reception - it changes hourly!


Yesterday afternoon, WNYW-DT was totally off the air. I know this by way of the DirecTV feed, Channel 88 being absent.


If I hear anything from some friends, I'll post the information.


Gary


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Is there any kind of Kw/Miles ratio to figure out what signals one can expect to recieve?
> 
> 
> I can occasionally pick up channel 3 from Philadelphia (770Kw, 78 miles), yet can't pick up WNET (2.6 Kw, 4 miles), WLIW (80-92 Kw, 32 miles) and WLNY (30 Kw, 60 miles).*



I don't want to sound like a nerd, duh, but you need to use the Longley-Rice method to figure that out.
http://www.softwright.com/faq/engine...culations.html 


Hope you were a math wiz. I'm not.

GT


----------



## SnellKrell

It's a little after 4 p.m. and WNYW-DT is once again down. So someone is working on the ESB to bring us a stronger signal!


Gary


----------



## Paperboy2003

Just as an update, I sent the following e-mail to the YES network recently :



Good Morning,


I've heard differing info regarding the possibility of YES carrying the 2005 season in High Definition. I understand that while you might broadcast it in HD sometime this season, it would still be up to the providers to pick up that signal. Do you have any plans on offering an HD signal for this season, and are there any specific providers who've shown an interest in picking it up?



I've had HD for 4 years and look forward to being able to consistently watch the Yankees in HD!



Thanks in advance for your response.



And I just received this response :


Yes, soon we will be in HD. Hang in there.


I know that this is the OTA forum, but since a lot of people were posting about it recently, I thought I should post.


Doug


----------



## Paperboy2003

Just as an update, I sent the following e-mail to the YES network recently :




> Quote:
> Good Morning,
> 
> 
> I've heard differing info regarding the possibility of YES carrying the 2005 season in High Definition. I understand that while you might broadcast it in HD sometime this season, it would still be up to the providers to pick up that signal. Do you have any plans on offering an HD signal for this season, and are there any specific providers who've shown an interest in picking it up?
> 
> 
> 
> I've had HD for 4 years and look forward to being able to consistently watch the Yankees in HD!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your response.




And I just received this response :



> Quote:
> Yes, soon we will be in HD. Hang in there.



Kinda vague, but it's better than nothing...


Doug


----------



## dm145

no, it is not better than nothing


----------



## trend1

Paperboy, Yes told us this last season...still waiting!


Tony


----------



## rkunces

Sounds to me like there won't be HD by opening day but thats just the impression i get.


----------



## Paperboy2003

So you're saying that I shouldn't hold my breath??


Even if they do it, it's still a matter of carriage...



Sorry for the dble post...please delete the first one...my bad


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Paperboy2003_
> *So you're saying that I shouldn't hold my breath??
> *



well, this is ALWAYS good advice!


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> I know that this is the OTA forum, but since a lot of people were posting about it recently, I thought I should post.
> 
> 
> Doug



Could we move this to the NYC TWC thread please?


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Could we move this to the NYC TWC thread please?*



Hmm... why don't we just alter it to another good question that is more on-topic? Why the heck is WWOR not going to broadcast their OTA Yankee games in HD? Yankee stadium apparently has HD cameras/equipment. WWOR has the ability to broadcast HD... What's the hold-up? Could an email campaign to the station help?


Disclosure: I'm a die-hard Red Sox fan, but I'd like to be able to watch the Yankees in HD!


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Hmm... why don't we just alter it to another good question that is more on-topic? Why the heck is WWOR not going to broadcast their OTA Yankee games in HD? Yankee stadium apparently has HD cameras/equipment. WWOR has the ability to broadcast HD... What's the hold-up? Could an email campaign to the station help?
> 
> 
> Disclosure: I'm a die-hard Red Sox fan, but I'd like to be able to watch the Yankees in HD!*



Another one coming out of the wood work! I never saw one "B" cap in the NYC area over the last ten years but now everyone is a Red Sox fan!


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Another one coming out of the wood work! I never saw one "B" cap in the NYC area over the last ten years but now everyone is a Red Sox fan!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I've noticed that too. For what it's worth I wear my sox cap all the time - including to every game at Yankee stadium. I also have a "enter the heart of darkness head-on" ritual which involves getting drinks in my sox gear at Yankee Tavern before every Yankees/Sox game. I've done this dozens of times and never had a bad experience.


----------



## DanC-P

I had a very kind engineer at WNJN explain to me that one possible reason for my brief ability to get their HD signal was "tropospheric ducting". It's a phenomenon that allows UHF (and some other) signals to travel far further than normal. There is a site that has tropospheric ducting forecasts and it looks like there will be a fairly active spot over NJ/NY this coming Monday. I'm going to try to get WNJN again on Monday. Here's the site: http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html 


and here's an explanation of the phenomenon: http://www.angelfire.com/sc/scannerpost/tropo.html 


Dan


----------



## CPanther95

Let's keep on topic - OTA issues.


----------



## SnellKrell

Thank you, Moderator.


Gary Press


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Thank you, Moderator.
> 
> 
> Gary Press*



Sorry guys, in the other threads I frequent, folks don't mind an OT post or two. I'll keep it strictly to OTA talk here.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *I had a very kind engineer at WNJN explain to me that one possible reason for my brief ability to get their HD signal was "tropospheric ducting". It's a phenomenon that allows UHF (and some other) signals to travel far further than normal. There is a site that has tropospheric ducting forecasts and it looks like there will be a fairly active spot over NJ/NY this coming Monday. I'm going to try to get WNJN again on Monday. Here's the site: http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html
> 
> 
> and here's an explanation of the phenomenon: http://www.angelfire.com/sc/scannerpost/tropo.html
> 
> 
> Dan*



Way, way, WAY back when there was very little good about OTA reception in NYC (2003-early 2004ish) I would futz around with my rotor....and from Central NJ I was able to pick up a few PBS stations out in Connecticut. Using Doug's 2150 site I was able to deduce the exact stations based on the station symbol in the lower corner of the screen. And, from Central NJ when I would turn South towards Philly/Delaware....I ACTUALLY picked up stations from as far away as DC/Maryland IIRC. I'm not sure if my posts were in this thread.....or the Central NJ thread. Needless to say since the OTA "transmissions" picked up in the NYC market, I've done no duct surfing in months....but it is possible to pick up some "fun" stuff. If you have the time....and nothing else is on.


OVernight (midnight to early AM) was the best time for me in my location.


I'll try and find my posts on the subject to figure out the EXACT stations I picked up. And IIRC, it was in the winter/fall months vs the Summer. But I could be wrong....


----------



## jaypb

Found this one....but it was from the summer....so scratch my winter/fall tropo memories:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...04#post2436504 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...11#post2437611 


And then this one was from fall when I picked up Maryland digitals....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...87#post2962787 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...04#post2962904 


Give it a shot---having a rotor helps IMMENSELY....as does the 2150 site listings.


----------



## newhdcrt

Lost all of my ota digital channels. I'm using a dish 921 which is reported to be flaky, but my experience with this unit and other dish receivers is, that when it gets flaky it's due to problems with the guide information. Either ota or sat.


Other than that it works fine.


----------



## GRN

I was flipping through NJN-HD on Wednesday and the picture quality on the HD subchannel was horrible. Did it again on Thursday and Friday, and same deal. The channel looks like it's in SD, but my guide info says the show is being brodcast in HD. Anyone have any idea/clue why this is occurring.....?


----------



## rlindabury

I don't know what program you were watching but sometimes the programming is upconverted from SD.


You'd have to be a bit more specific and I could check it on my Samsung SIR-T150.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *I don't know what program you were watching but sometimes the programming is upconverted from SD.
> 
> 
> You'd have to be a bit more specific and I could check it on my Samsung SIR-T150.*



I have no clue what the programs were. I didn't catch them from the beginning and I don't get program info on my receiver for NJN-HD. Sorry.


And the programs did not look upconverted from SD. I've seen programs that have been upconverted from SD. Not even close. These looked to be IN SD, with horrible PQ.


----------



## dm145

Even NJN's "HD" programs look like crap because they multicast 2 SD and 1 HD! They use to be reference quality but now it is a joke!


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Even NJN's "HD" programs look like crap because they multicast 2 SD and 1 HD! They use to be reference quality but now it is a joke!*



Is that "bad" HD recent? I recall that even about a month ago the picture quality on the HD stuff was still very good. I hadn't flipped to NJN in a while and was surprised at how bad it looked this past week.


----------



## jcord51

Still no WNBC, any idea how long before they get it fixed?


----------



## SnellKrell

It's 3:33 p.m. and WNBC-DT is coming in loud and clear - no problem here.


The combiner's antenna, WCBS-DT, I believe, is omni-directional, so although I am northeast of the transmitter, and I guess you're southeast, there really shouldn't be a big difference.


It could be that due to multipath? your location and the antenna you're using - they're just not hitting it off. WNBC-DT is not changing - so that means you've got to change - your antenna and or its position.


Gary


----------



## bjohn

Can anyone recommend an antenna installer in the Floral Park, Queens area?


He/She should atleast know what HD is









Any price qoute/info would be appreciated.


Thanks


----------



## mikeny

I've had these guys do 2 installs for me and was very happy with their work. : nyssdigital (not sure about the 'links rules' so just fill in the beginning and the end)


----------



## UroDoc

This is the second Sunday that I've lost most of the OTA channels except CBS. Today I was unable to receive 4.01,4.02, 5.01, 5.02, 9.01, 9.02 and 11.01. I received 7.01 and 7.02 poorly earlier today, lost them and recently again received them with no breakups. CBS has been solid throughout. Iwas able to receive all channels until today. No problems during the week. The same problem occurred two weeks ago on Sunday when I suddenly was unable to receive Fox for the Daytona 500. The signal returned about one quarter through the race.


Current equipment: Channel Master 4248 with CM 7777 preamp, CM 9521a rotator. Mitsubishi Promise Module ,WS65907. I've rescanned multiple times, reoriented the antenna, resynced the rotator, visual inspected antenna orientation and everything seems to be OK. I also had a problem with Fox on Super Bowl Sunday. There is no signal strength meter on the Promise Module.


Has anyone else noticed any problems???? I'm beginning to wonder if I'm having local interference problems since my problems seem to only occur on Sundays. No problems for any other days of the week.


----------



## netman

Mike, I am experiencing nothing like you describe from western Suffolk. If the problem IS interference it may be an overload problem. I assume your antenna is roof mounted but even if not I would remove the pre-amp and see what happens. You might also want to check all your connections problems. Your kind of close to need the preamp unless you have a very long cable run down to the receiver. What happens if you move the antenna around during the trouble?


----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *Mike, I am experiencing nothing like you describe from western Suffolk. If the problem IS interference it may be an overload problem. I assume your antenna is roof mounted but even if not I would remove the pre-amp and see what happens. You might also want to check all your connections problems. Your kind of close to need the preamp unless you have a very long cable run down to the receiver. What happens if you move the antenna around during the trouble?*



Antenna ( and preamp) is mounted about 15' above the top of a split level. Cable run RG6QS about 75' (

No change in reception with rotation of antenna.

Problem ONLY on Sundays. No problem any other day of the week.


Never a problem with CBS which is usually the strongest station. Therefore I didn't think it would be overload from the preamp.


I thought that maybe there was a problem with the Promise Module handling the new FCC changes in regard to the PSIP information. (AVS forum thread) However that would not explain the problem only occurring on Sundays.


After my wife finishes watching the Oscars I'm going to reboot the Promise Module. I don't really think that that will solve my problem.


I'm puzzled. I've had more problems since the combiner was activated than before.


----------



## newhdcrt

I lost all of my ota channels yesterday. They all came back today except for nbc and fox.


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Even NJN's "HD" programs look like crap because they multicast 2 SD and 1 HD! They use to be reference quality but now it is a joke!*



I think you're generalizing here.


Even though NJN broadcasts 2 SD and 1 HD channel at 8pm, the HD is still sent out at 14Mb/s. The full spectrum that can be used for all the channels is 19Mb/s. Two SD channels are turned off at 8pm to free up bandwidth for the HD.


The ONLY reason you'd be seeing poor HD quality is because of some kind of mistake made in the programming, a setting error or a hardware issue.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *Antenna ( and preamp) is mounted about 15' above the top of a split level. Cable run RG6QS about 75' (
> 
> No change in reception with rotation of antenna.
> 
> Problem ONLY on Sundays. No problem any other day of the week.
> 
> I'm puzzled. I've had more problems since the combiner was activated than before.*




You may want to look at an analog UHF station using the antenna to see what you see; you may get some insight as to what is happening. I agree with the assessment. Reception issues that follow a schedule are often interference problems. Also consider removing the pre-amp; the pre-amp can be working in concert with an interference source.


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlindabury_
> *I think you're generalizing here.
> 
> 
> Even though NJN broadcasts 2 SD and 1 HD channel at 8pm, the HD is still sent out at 14Mb/s. The full spectrum that can be used for all the channels is 19Mb/s. Two SD channels are turned off at 8pm to free up bandwidth for the HD.
> 
> 
> The ONLY reason you'd be seeing poor HD quality is because of some kind of mistake made in the programming, a setting error or a hardware issue.*



For what it's worth, during the week-long period in which I was picking up NJN's HD programming I thought the PQ was phenomenal. I watched a show about Hawaii that was stunning. Dan


----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *You may want to look at an analog UHF station using the antenna to see what you see; you may get some insight as to what is happening. I agree with the assessment. Reception issues that follow a schedule are often interference problems. Also consider removing the pre-amp; the pre-amp can be working in concert with an interference source.*



Interesting followup this morning. I rebooted the Promise Module last night. No change in reception. Tried again this morning and I still could only receive WCBS and WABC. Still no reception WNBC, Fox, UPN, WB.


I rotated my antenna to 317 degrees (normally set at 283) and suddenly I picked up all the missing stations. However at this setting I now LOST WCBS!!!


If all the stations are now at the ESB why would there be a 34 degree variation between WCBS and the rest. According to antennaweb.org the correct angle is 283 degrees. As of about 3 weeks ago I could receive all stations at 283. Visible inspection of the antenna indicates the angles are correct.


Is there something going on at the ESB which would change the radiation patterns?


----------



## George Thompson

As described earlier in this thread, there is. The radiation patterns are frequency dependent, but not to the degree you describe. It almost sounds like you are getting a reflection that is stronger than the direct freespace signal. Try looking for the analog signals as mentioned before. Digital UHF is a strange animal and prone to all sorts of anomalies.

George


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *Interesting followup this morning. I rebooted the Promise Module last night. No change in reception. Tried again this morning and I still could only receive WCBS and WABC. Still no reception WNBC, Fox, UPN, WB.
> 
> 
> I rotated my antenna to 317 degrees (normally set at 283) and suddenly I picked up all the missing stations. However at this setting I now LOST WCBS!!!
> 
> 
> If all the stations are now at the ESB why would there be a 34 degree variation between WCBS and the rest. According to antennaweb.org the correct angle is 283 degrees. As of about 3 weeks ago I could receive all stations at 283. Visible inspection of the antenna indicates the angles are correct.
> 
> 
> Is there something going on at the ESB which would change the radiation patterns?*



Which way is that water tower from your house? Just an odd thought.


----------



## UroDoc

I'm just south of Old Country Road in the Salisbury area of Westbury. I don't know of any water towers in my direct line of site. The smoke stack from the incinerator is south of me. Eisenhower Park is to my west.


I also have an analog VHF-UHF antenna which is pointed at approximately 283 degrees and I receive multiple UHF channels well (13, 25, 31, 47 etc). Mounted on same antenna pole but below CM 4248 and not using rotator)


----------



## Swisher

I used to get WOR at about 65% (after the combiner work was completed) but now get zero. Not sure when this happened because I was away for a couple weeks, but seems to be the last couple of weeks. Is it them or me? I get WOR on the sub channel of WNYW, but that's it. Can someone confirm what channel WOR is on for me? Thanks.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by CPanther95_
> *Let's keep on topic - OTA issues.*



i know i'm a little late- sorry to go back-


But where are we supposed to discuss YES Network in HD? THe mods locked a thread that was specifically about YES in HD and said to discuss it someplace else. I have D* so I dont want to have to read 100's of posts in the TW thread just to see when the cable people will get YES. I'm not aware of a D* in New York thread.


Not trying to be a PIA, but seems the mods didn't think through locking the YES thread.....


----------



## UroDoc

The mystery continues.


Tonight all stations are coming in at the normal antenna orientation of 283 degrees. This morning only WCBS and WABC were coming in. All the others were at 317 degerees.


I'm stumped.


A second minor issue. The WB (33.3 and 33.4) are not remapping to 11.1 etc. It has been like this for several weeks. I think several pages back someone had the same problem but I think they said that it was in reference to their directv guide info.


Is any one having a problem with WB being remapped??


Does anyone have the contact information (phone etc) to reach tech support at the WB??


----------



## netman

Hey Uro,


What kind of HD reception do you get from the fixed VHF-UHF antenna?


----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *Hey Uro,
> 
> 
> What kind of HD reception do you get from the fixed VHF-UHF antenna?*



I haven't used the Radio Shack Vu-190 VHF-UHF antenna for HD for quite some time. It currently feeds 5 analog TVs througout the house. (no cable, no satellite) It also has a CM 7777 preamp. Initially all tvs were feed by the VU-190 including the Promise module and I was able to receive WCBS in HD. Most of the other channels were not transmitting at that time. I subsequently got the CM 4248, CM9521a rotator, and ran RG6QS throughout. The VU-190 has a separate lead to the Mitsubishi WS65907 for analog signals.


I think I might do a test this weekend and attach the VHF-UHF Radio Shack antenna to the Promise Module and test my HD reception with that antenna.


----------



## jgrahamiii

At least two of us with Dell W4200HD's on LI are having difficulty locking CBS. All other stations seem to come in fine, and the other one of us has an HDTV Wonder card for his PC, and CBS comes in fine on that with the same antenna input. Comes in strongly, even.


So, I'm wondering, is there anything different about CBS's signal than anyone else's? I understand that there are several formats which an ATSC tuner must decode, and I wonder if CBS uses a different format than other locals.


Thanks for any insight. -John


----------



## UroDoc

WB is still not remapping to 11.1 etc. No PSIP information. Is anyone else having this problem or is it unique to the Mitsubishi Promise module? All other stations are mapping correctly.


----------



## dturturro

Did anyone else lose Fox tonight during House? I only got about 10 minutes on my HDTiVo.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Did anyone else lose Fox tonight during House? I only got about 10 minutes on my HDTiVo.*



No issues on the D* feed. Another great episode too. I hope this show gets renewed for next year.


----------



## seldenpat




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jgrahamiii_
> *At least two of us with Dell W4200HD's on LI are having difficulty locking CBS. All other stations seem to come in fine, and the other one of us has an HDTV Wonder card for his PC, and CBS comes in fine on that with the same antenna input. Comes in strongly, even.
> 
> 
> So, I'm wondering, is there anything different about CBS's signal than anyone else's? I understand that there are several formats which an ATSC tuner must decode, and I wonder if CBS uses a different format than other locals.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any insight. -John*



CBS was a little funky for me out in Selden with the ATSC tuner on my Sony HD300 receiver during that race show that my wife likes to watch. I should have checked the built in tuner on my Sony RPTV, since the two tuners reject signals differently. I'll let you know tomorrow.


----------



## newhdcrt

NBC is back for me.


----------



## roykirk1

Hi


I tried reading through this whole thread, and there have been so many changes, I'm getting a headache! So please forgive me for these very newbie-ish questions...


Can I get OTA HDTV in Manhattan? I live in an apt building on E 54th Street, with a North facing window and no access to the roof.


If so, what channels can I expect? What equipment should I get? Should I give in and just sign up for cable? ;-)


Thanks in advance for sharing


----------



## SnellKrell

Well...north facing window is a problem. The only thing in your favor is that digital UHF signals are so unpredictable that you might very well be able to get some reception by way of multipath (bounce) signals.


I use, with some success, an indoor antenna known as the Silver Sensor - it can be found on the Internet for anywhere from $20+ to $30 dollars or so.


I live in the East 60s and the window I use faces west, so I'm able to orient the antenna, on a windowsill, to the south. Big difference from your location.


See if you can return the antenna if it just doesn't pick up enough stations.


You also can try a Radio Shack bow tie antenna that has also received some good reviews.


Unfortunately, you may very well have to bite the bullet to go cable.


I wish you well.


Gary


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by UroDoc_
> *WB is still not remapping to 11.1 etc. No PSIP information. Is anyone else having this problem or is it unique to the Mitsubishi Promise module? All other stations are mapping correctly.*



I have the DISH 811 and WPIX-HD maps over to 11.1 and 11.2 both with PSIP info. The problem may just be specific to your receiver.


On the other hand, I have UPN map over to 9.1 but with no PSIP info, despite have rescanned the channel numerous times, so I'm assuming it's a problem with the receiver and not the station itself.


----------



## UroDoc




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GRN_
> *I have the DISH 811 and WPIX-HD maps over to 11.1 and 11.2 both with PSIP info. The problem may just be specific to your receiver.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I have UPN map over to 9.1 but with no PSIP info, despite have rescanned the channel numerous times, so I'm assuming it's a problem with the receiver and not the station itself.*



Thanks GRN.


Does anybody know the contact phone number for tech support at WPIX?? About 2 years ago I think one of the technicians was on a thread at AVS but I'm not sure which one and how to reach him.


----------



## WAYNEG




> Quote:
> Originally posted by UroDoc - WB is still not remapping to 11.1 etc. No PSIP information. Is anyone else having this problem or is it unique to the Mitsubishi Promise module? All other stations are mapping correctly.



I am having the same problem with my HD-Tivo- tried clearing and rescanning many times, still no info for 11-1DT !


Wayne


----------



## HDugan

My DirecTV Samsung SIR-TS360 is remappig channel and guide to 11.1 just fine...problems may be models specific.


----------



## HDugan

NLN 50.5 only appears for me on very rare occasions. Is THIS a broadcast issue of a problem with my receiver???


PS: I can see the power and have a perfect signal strength.


----------



## dcarpa

There's been some conflicting reports about NBC - is it at full power yet. I can get everything else without problems but no luck with NBC. Just wondering if I should start fooling with the antenna if it is at full power or just wait if it is going to increase


In commack by the way (long island - about 35 miles from ESB I think). Have an 811 (E* blows) and can get cbs, abc, fox, 11.1, 9.1, LI PBS, and some spanish channels


D


----------



## NS324




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *NLN 50.5 only appears for me on very rare occasions. Is THIS a broadcast issue of a problem with my receiver???
> 
> 
> PS: I can see the power and have a perfect signal strength.*



The same thing happens to me with the Zenith HDR230. The last time I checked was Monday night; the receiver had a sufficient signal, but no picture or audio. (This happens on all the sub-channels that NJN uses.)


----------



## Gary Quiring

Another bust for me last night with SmallVille on the WB. I switched to UPN channel 9-1 and same problems. Was the combiner just running all channels last night at a lower power?


----------



## michaelk

I'm trying to keep up but worried i missed it-


Is UPN full power yet?


----------



## mondesign

Does anyone know if WNJN is broadcasting at its full authorized power?

Reception seems weaker than it was in the past with more dropouts. They seem to be working on things, as Ch 51 now remaps to 50.1-50.5 instead of 52.1-52.5


I guess I really want to know if I have to improve my antenna system, or be patient and wait until they improve their signal.


Mike


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mondesign_
> *Does anyone know if WNJN is broadcasting at its full authorized power?
> 
> Reception seems weaker than it was in the past with more dropouts. They seem to be working on things, as Ch 51 now remaps to 50.1-50.5 instead of 52.1-52.5
> 
> 
> I guess I really want to know if I have to improve my antenna system, or be patient and wait until they improve their signal.
> 
> 
> Mike*



Mike, I wouldn't play with your antenna just yet. I had been getting NJN loud and clear on 52 1 through 5. Now for about the last week, I get nothing, at least after 8 pm when 52.5 usually does HD.


----------



## dcarpa

Well after looking back I think that NBC is at full power because if George says it than I think its got to have some weight behind it


Dated 2/18

Originally posted by George Thompson

As of yesterday, WNBC-DT is at full power. 200KW erp with an omnidirectional pattern.

George



OK than - time to start the "find the signal" game


----------



## SnellKrell

From what I understand, all channels on the Combiner have been transmitting at full power. Whether at times a station might have reduced its power for technical reasons, I don't know.


Don't have definitive word about WNYW-DT (not on the Combiner) the station had hoped to be at an extremely increased power level by Super Bowl time, but that didn't happen.


Gary


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *From what I understand, all channels on the Combiner have been transmitting at full power. Whether at times a station might have reduced its power for technical reasons, I don't know.
> 
> 
> Don't have definitive word about WNYW-DT (not on the Combiner) the station had hoped to be at an extremely increased power level by Super Bowl time, but that didn't happen.
> 
> 
> Gary*



thanks.


That's what i've been trying to follow.


----------



## rcliff

Interesting...


> Quote:
> ... NOAA all hazards radio broadcasts from New York City has been
> 
> returned to service...
> 
> 
> To accommodate a construction project in progress at Rockefeller
> 
> center... power had been turned off to the existing transmitter. NOAA
> 
> National Weather Service electronic technicians have now installed a
> 
> temporary transmitter in a new location. Although returned to
> 
> service... the power has been reduced from 500 to 300 Watts from
> 
> this temporary transmitter.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by WAYNEG_
> *I am having the same problem with my HD-Tivo- tried clearing and rescanning many times, still no info for 11-1DT !
> 
> 
> Wayne*



You don't need to rescan. Just clear locals and go into Channels You Receive and manually add 11-1.


----------



## jcord51




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dcarpa_
> *There's been some conflicting reports about NBC - is it at full power yet. I can get everything else without problems but no luck with NBC. Just wondering if I should start fooling with the antenna if it is at full power or just wait if it is going to increase
> 
> 
> In commack by the way (long island - about 35 miles from ESB I think). Have an 811 (E* blows) and can get cbs, abc, fox, 11.1, 9.1, LI PBS, and some spanish channels
> 
> 
> D*



I have the same situation as you! I just wanted to know if NBC is at it's full power (I read from other post that it is). The reason is that I don't want to call the antenna Guy until he is really needed. I just hope that when I do tunein NBC I don't lose too many of my other signals. BTW I have a Dishnet 921 receiver which is still being software upgraded.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jcord51_
> *I have the same situation as you! I just wanted to know if NBC is at it's full power (I read from other post that it is). The reason is that I don't want to call the antenna Guy until he is really needed. I just hope that when I do tunein NBC I don't lose too many of my other signals. BTW I have a Dishnet 921 receiver which is still being software upgraded.*



For what it's worth: I have the DISH 811. I live out in Hempstead, Nassau County. Prior to the combiner hookup, I could not get NBC-DT at all. Since NBC went on the combiner, I have been getting it at 70% (on a scale of 0-100), consistently strong, no breakups, even during the recent snowstorms and heavy rain. I haven't lost it once since it went on the combiner, and I never adjusted my antenna. So _my own personal experience_ would lead me to believe that NBC-DT is at full power on the combiner.


----------



## tincan

I also don't get WNBC-DT (using a Samsung SIRT165). Trying from 06811. WABC-DT(45), and WNYW-DT(44) are reliable. WCBS-DT(56) almost always pulls through. WWOR-DT(38) sometimes. WPIX-DT(33) hardly ever, but I have seen it a few times. Never seen a picture on WNBC-DT(28). Right now, have a big roof antenna hopefully pointed at ESB and a winegard preamp, but if this is as good as it gets I suppose I'll have to get a new preamp, maybe a distribution amp too, reorient the antenna. The antenna is huge, but maybe that will have to get bigger too.


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mondesign_
> *Does anyone know if WNJN is broadcasting at its full authorized power?
> 
> Reception seems weaker than it was in the past with more dropouts. They seem to be working on things, as Ch 51 now remaps to 50.1-50.5 instead of 52.1-52.5
> 
> 
> I guess I really want to know if I have to improve my antenna system, or be patient and wait until they improve their signal.
> 
> 
> Mike*



NJN is operating at the same power they've been operating at since they started broadcasting Digital. However, there are some power boosts in the works.


The problem with the remapping to the wrong channel was an operator error on NJN's side. I believe it's been addressed and you should re-scan.


People are working on various things related to the digital broadcasts so there will probably be intermittant issues.


Anyway, here's the tower/power listing with information on the upcoming power increases:


WNJN-DT Ch. 51 Montclair: 177Kw Now -> 200Kw Later

WNJB-DT Ch. 8 New Brunswick: 6Kw Now -> 11Kw Summer '05 -> 20Kw Later

WNJT-DT Ch. 43 Trenton: 46Kw

WNJS-DT Ch. 22 Camden: 20Kw Now -> 163Kw Summer '05 -> 198Kw Later


Realize that VHF doesn't need as much power and that's why the lower Kw numbers for Ch. 8.


----------



## DVW

Why does this station broadcast nothing in HD?


----------



## dm145

WLIW use to show HD but they decided not to well over a year ago.


----------



## dlan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *From what I understand, all channels on the Combiner have been transmitting at full power. Whether at times a station might have reduced its power for technical reasons, I don't know.
> 
> 
> Don't have definitive word about WNYW-DT (not on the Combiner) the station had hoped to be at an extremely increased power level by Super Bowl time, but that didn't happen.
> 
> 
> Gary*



good to know... I still get some drop out on UPN and WB and I did not notice any inprovement in signal since January


----------



## Alexvd

Hello,


I now live in Mountainside, NJ about 20mi outside of the city. I have a two story house, with lots of trees around.


CBS is driving me nuts.


I finally put up a CM 4228. For a longtime I was using a Silver Sensor indoors and it was dropping out like crazy.


Its connected to a Radio Shack amp. (I think it is 1571) I would have went with a titan but I didnt think I would need it. This all runs via Rg6 quad shield with Paladin Sealtite connectors. All channels are now much more stable and have 70% or better signal strenth on my Zenith DTV 1080.


The only thing is that CBS still drops out. The signal bar jumps all around when cars go by my house. Its the only channel that does this now. Every other channel is fine and does not fluctuate. This behavior used to happen when I had the silver sensor indoors on the first floor. That is what forced me to put the antenna on a 10ft mast on the roof of my house. Installed it in December with lots of snow and ice. Dont try this at home kids. My brother almost fell of the roof.


How could cars still be affecting the signal that high up. I have not tweaked the antenna with my compass to see if I could improve the signal quality. However it is driving me nuts and I need to fix this.


Is this multipath. Could it be fixed by aligning the antenna better. Should I bother with getting a Titan amplifier. Seems like a waste. My runs are around a 100ft but the radio shack antenna seemed to fix that easily. I dont have the radio shack antenna closest to the antenna on the roof but it is still working quite well.


Also wtf is up with NJN. I get NJN on 58-1,58-5. All the subchannels work except the 58-5. It worked at one point and now no longer. I get full signal strength but no HDTV. This really stinks because that is the channel with Smart Travels. My wife and I love this show. I did a channel scan but it does not fix it.


----------



## flattie

Some troubleshooting help needed. I'm in Oceanside on the south shore of LI about 25 miles ESE from NYC. I have a roof antenna that came with the house and don't know make/model. The antenna is oriented towards where the WTC was. 2 coax leads come from the antenna. The one I'm using runs to the far side of my house before entering. This coax has 2 inline splitters (using antenna to feed 2 tv's plus fm radio for stereo) plus connections at 2 wall plates (where it enters the house from outside and where it emerges from the wall behind the tv). I understand that all these connections can cause some signal loss that may or may not be recoverable by adding a preamp. Oh I'm using a Samsung SIRTS360 for Dtv plus OTA reception. Here's my question. Since I first hooked up the coax antenna lead to the Samsung 360 I have received CBS 2.1 without fail no matter what the weather was like. Occasionally I'd get 4.1. Since everything has gone on the combiner I still get 2.1, 4.1, 4.2 come in sometimes, 5.1 and 5.2 sometimes, 7.1 sometimes, 9.1 and 11.1 sometimes. And I get alot of the digital spanish stations which I don't care about. Last night no 4.1,4.2,7.1 while 5.1 and 5.2 came in with some break ups and pixelation (2.1 rock solid). The previous day I had 4.1, 4.2 and 2.1 but nothing else. And over the weekend had 2.1, 7.1, 9.1 and nothing else. Since I get 2.1 all the time with no breakups I'm guessing that antenna orientation is not the problem. Does it sound like I need a preamp?? Any advice would be much appreciated.


----------



## Johnr0836

Alexvd

Check the central NJ thread to get info about NJN problems. For WNJT from Trenton I have to manually tune 43-3 to get the HD programming. The re-directed channels (52-1,2,5) have a signal but no picture or sound. I sent an e-mail to NJN two weeks ago and from their response they didn't seem to be aware of the problem but they didn't indicate when it might be corrected.


----------



## SnellKrell

Flattie -


Just to clarify things - at least concerning two stations - 5.1 and 5.2 are not a part of the Combiner project.


WNYW-DT has its own antenna on the ESB. The station continues to work on connecting to a very high power transmitter - they're not finished yet.


Hope this little bit helps.


Gary


----------



## flattie

Gary,

Thanks for the clarification on WNYW. Still don't understand why I get CBS all the time and NBC and ABC infrequently and never at the same time??


----------



## luzer

whats the best indoor antenna for UWS manhattan apartment?


----------



## SnellKrell

Try a Silver Sensor - good idea if you can return it if it doesn't work in your apartment.


Gary


----------



## luzer

what about the Terk tv5?

tv5


----------



## dturturro

Terk=Bad, very, very bad!


----------



## luzer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Terk=Bad, very, very bad!*



thats funny. from all amazon reviews:

I tried a few antennas even the silver sensor and that one was the worst I thought even with a amp. hook up to it. with the terk tv5 I get all DT channels in my area. It's easy to move if needed to get better singnal.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by luzer_
> *thats funny. from all amazon reviews:
> 
> I tried a few antennas even the silver sensor and that one was the worst I thought even with a amp. hook up to it. with the terk tv5 I get all DT channels in my area. It's easy to move if needed to get better singnal.*



That's because the amp was probably over driving the STB. Look around this site a little and I'm sure you'll see plenty of proof that SS vs Terk is no contest.


----------



## luzer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *That's because the amp was probably over driving the STB. Look around this site a little and I'm sure you'll see plenty of proof that SS vs Terk is no contest.*



thanks. will do!


is this the silver sensor ? ( http://store.yahoo.com/jlhwholesalers/zenzhdtv1.html )


----------



## SnellKrell

That's it!


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Alexvd_
> 
> [/b]
> 
> 
> The only thing is that CBS still drops out. The signal bar jumps all around when cars go by my house. Its the only channel that does this now. Every other channel is fine and does not fluctuate. This behavior used to happen when I had the silver sensor indoors on the first floor. That is what forced me to put the antenna on a 10ft mast on the roof of my house. Installed it in December with lots of snow and ice. Dont try this at home kids. My brother almost fell of the roof.
> 
> 
> How could cars still be affecting the signal that high up. I have not tweaked the antenna with my compass to see if I could improve the signal quality. However it is driving me nuts and I need to fix this.
> 
> 
> Is this multipath. Could it be fixed by aligning the antenna better. Should I bother with getting a Titan amplifier. Seems like a waste. My runs are around a 100ft but the radio shack antenna seemed to fix that easily. I dont have the radio shack antenna closest to the antenna on the roof but it is still working quite well.
> 
> 
> [/b]



It sure sounds like multipath when you say that you are getting signal variations when cars pass. I would try reorienting your antenna toward NYC and set it in the position where WCBS has the most reliable signal. I find that WCBS is the most difficult to to receive at my location without multipath, probably because they are on the highest frequency UHF channel (56) used here for DTV. Try to locate the antenna preamp as close as possible to the antenna to minimize the feedline loss, but I doubt a better preamp would help your problem with multipath.


WNJN is working on their equipment and sometimes transmits on their subchannels with no audio or video. The problem is on their end, not on yours.


Mike


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flattie_
> *Some troubleshooting help needed. I'm in Oceanside on the south shore of LI about 25 miles ESE from NYC. I have a roof antenna that came with the house and don't know make/model. The antenna is oriented towards where the WTC was. 2 coax leads come from the antenna. The one I'm using runs to the far side of my house before entering. This coax has 2 inline splitters (using antenna to feed 2 tv's plus fm radio for stereo) plus connections at 2 wall plates (where it enters the house from outside and where it emerges from the wall behind the tv). I understand that all these connections can cause some signal loss that may or may not be recoverable by adding a preamp Since I get 2.1 all the time with no breakups I'm guessing that antenna orientation is not the problem. Does it sound like I need a preamp?? Any advice would be much appreciated.*



It would be interesting to find out why there are two coax cables coming from the antenna? Perhaps there are separate feedlines for UHF and VHF?

If you are splitting the signal four ways or more, a preamp located at the antenna would certainly be helpful to compensate for the cable and splitting losses. Try to connect a cable from your receiver directly to each of the coax cables from the roof and see what kind of reception you get. If you get good reception when bypassing all the splitters and extra coax, then an antenna preamp or distribution amp would definitely be worthwhile.


----------



## BigBlueBong




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by luzer_
> *thanks. will do!
> 
> 
> is this the silver sensor ? ( http://store.yahoo.com/jlhwholesalers/zenzhdtv1.html )*



So, in addition to the antenna is there any additional equipment needed?


I have a hitachi 50v500 w/ no hd tuner and a TWC 8300HD. Do i need a tuner to receive OTA? or can i just plug the antenna into the back of my tv and enjoy?


For 20 bucks this might be the cheapest and easiest peice of HD equipment, of course nothing is w/out it's hitches!


----------



## HDntheCity

hey BigBlue.


sounds like you'll need to invest in an outboard ATSC tuner--200 to 300 bucks should get you a good one-maybe less.


jim


----------



## luzer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDntheCity_
> *hey BigBlue.
> 
> 
> sounds like you'll need to invest in an outboard ATSC tuner--200 to 300 bucks should get you a good one-maybe less.
> 
> 
> jim*



i have the Fusion3 Gold -T card. in order to get the Fusion software working, i need to disable the Media Center Services. (i can just stop them one the pc starts up).


however, i am still not able to get any HD channels. everything i get seems to be analog. i am in NYC(RCN). any suggestions???


----------



## ejjiv

WNET 13 is now on the combiner. Hurray!


VHF channel 61. Not a strong signal, but good enough.


----------



## ejjiv

Of course, I meant UHF.


Should say I don't know for a fact that they're on the combiner, but I've never been able to receive 13 HD before tonight, so I assume that's the case.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ejjiv_
> *Of course, I meant UHF.
> 
> 
> Should say I don't know for a fact that they're on the combiner, but I've never been able to receive 13 HD before tonight, so I assume that's the case.*



It's probably just a fluke. Not getting a peep hear on LI.


----------



## SnellKrell

No signal at all coming from Channel 61 in the East 60s in Manhattan!


Too good to be true!


Gary


----------



## icemannyr

I get no audio or video from NJN-5HD on Ch51.

NJN-1 and NJN-4 have video and audio.


----------



## luzer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *I get no audio or video from NJN-5HD on Ch51.
> 
> NJN-1 and NJN-4 have video and audio.*



can someone PLEASE explain how to recieve these channels on a HDTV PCI tuner card and RCN HDTV cable in the UWS?


TIA!


----------



## trend1




> Quote:
> I get no audio or video from NJN-5HD on Ch51.



iceman, Try posting this in the Central NJ forum...I'm having this problem as well.


Tony


----------



## BigBlueBong

can anyone recommend a cheap hdtv tuner to use w/ an antenna for ota?


----------



## George Thompson




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Are you using a VSB/QAM combo card? And have you received cable HD channels with this card in the past? Just a thought.
> 
> I don't want to sound condesending, but the modulation is different between OTA and cable. 8vsb/QAM......
> 
> 
> Also...
> 
> "QAM decoding is under development due to the variations in Cable service providers. QAM256 generally has been reported to work, although QAM64 still poses problems with the decoding software. FusionHDTV QAM decoding is limited to only the non-encrypted channels available (generally the OTA local stations). "
> 
> I have these problems too when setting up systems for development.
> 
> 
> GT*


----------



## luzer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Are you using a VSB/QAM combo card? And have you received cable HD channels with this card in the past? Just a thought.
> 
> I don't want to sound condesending, but the modulation is different between OTA and cable. 8vsb/QAM......
> 
> 
> Also...
> 
> "QAM decoding is under development due to the variations in Cable service providers. QAM256 generally has been reported to work, although QAM64 still poses problems with the decoding software. FusionHDTV QAM decoding is limited to only the non-encrypted channels available (generally the OTA local stations). "
> 
> 
> GT*



george, thanks for the reply.


i have tried scanning for 8vsb, QAM64, and QAM256 locally.

i am able to pick up all the normal ANALOG stations, but nothing digital seems to work. does anyone have this software and able to get it to work in NYC/RCN?


thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

Absolutely no O-T-A reception of Channels 50.1 through 50.5 transmitting over RF Channel 51.


Earlier this morning, although no picture or audio, I did receive on each of the Channels a strong signal indication on my meter - the carrier?


Now - nothing!


Gary


----------



## plasmafan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by BigBlueBong_
> *can anyone recommend a cheap hdtv tuner to use w/ an antenna for ota?*



Walmart has a USCable HD Tuner for $199. Dont come any cheaper!


----------



## BigBlueBong




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by plasmafan_
> *Walmart has a USCable HD Tuner for $199. Dont come any cheaper!*



Hmmm, that sounds good, but it looks a little fishy.....it doesn't say anything about resolutions and it also says this in the product description:


"And if you have an HDTV (High Definition) television, you'll get an amazing DVD-quality picture, too. "


DVD-quality?! I don't want DVD quality, i want HD quality!


Anyone own one of these? or know of any other similarly priced/name brand options?


Thanks for the help!


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by BigBlueBong_
> *can anyone recommend a cheap hdtv tuner to use w/ an antenna for ota?*



Samsung SIR-T451. Guy has them on ebay for $179+ shipping


----------



## ejjiv




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *No signal at all coming from Channel 61 in the East 60s in Manhattan!
> 
> 
> Too good to be true!
> 
> 
> Gary*



Still receiving 61 in Clinton Hill, though, like I said, the signal is not strong and my antenna has to be aimed just-so, toward midtown. I had zero signal before this week. A fluke, perhaps, but an ongoing one.


13-1 is HD, while 13-2 ("PBS Kids") and 13-3 ("Thirteen World") are SD. Program info for each.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ejjiv_
> *Still receiving 61 in Clinton Hill, though, like I said, the signal is not strong and my antenna has to be aimed just-so, toward midtown. I had zero signal before this week. A fluke, perhaps, but an ongoing one.
> 
> 
> 13-1 is HD, while 13-2 ("PBS Kids") and 13-3 ("Thirteen World") are SD. Program info for each.*



Since no else has speculated that the WNET-DT is on the Combiner, could it be that somehow you're receiving the station's signal from its low-power antenna on West 33rd street - not all that far from the ESB?


Although its low power is directional toward Newark, with the strange propagation of UHF/DT, I wouldn't at all be surprised if that were the case.


Gary


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *Since no else has speculated that the WNET-DT is on the Combiner, could it be that somehow you're receiving the station's signal from its low-power antenna on West 33rd street - not all that far from the ESB?*



I agree with Gary. You're probably picking up a reflection. I'm about 20 miles north of the ESB and get 0 signal on VHF 61, but over 90 on all the other channels on the combiner. I'm jealous of your luck, because I'm a DirecTV customer and they're not carrying PBS in hi-def yet.


/steve


----------



## HoundBaby

Have not been able to receive 31.1 now for a couple of days???


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flattie_
> *Gary,
> 
> Thanks for the clarification on WNYW. Still don't understand why I get CBS all the time and NBC and ABC infrequently and never at the same time??*



Same here. CBS and UPN are rock solid. NBC, ABC & WB are like playing the lottery.


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HoundBaby_
> *Have not been able to receive 31.1 now for a couple of days???*



Same problem here. They seem to be transmitting a signal as I am getting a normal signal strength reading, but no audio or video.


----------



## neo0285

what can i do, if anything, to try to bring in pbs hd in from queens. I m willing to try anything i, i really need kids thirteen. Btw i get 2-11 at full strength, i dont know if that matters?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HoundBaby_
> *Have not been able to receive 31.1 now for a couple of days???*



I have not been able to get it for a few days either. I get just a black screen.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *Are you using a VSB/QAM combo card? And have you received cable HD channels with this card in the past? Just a thought.
> 
> I don't want to sound condesending, but the modulation is different between OTA and cable. 8vsb/QAM......
> *



Yes I am using the Fusion Gold III card and there are seperate settings and two coax in's for for OTA and QAM.


NJN-5HD is working tonight.


----------



## icemannyr

Does anyone have a link or list of the NYC HD/Digital channel locations?


----------



## luzer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *Yes I am using the Fusion Gold III card and there are seperate settings and two coax in's for for OTA and QAM.
> 
> 
> NJN-5HD is working tonight.*



i have the Fusion Gold-T, not the Q.

i only have one COAX in.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *Does anyone have a link or list of the NYC HD/Digital channel locations?*



You can try titantv.com


----------



## hphase

I just cruised the FCC web site and caught a glimpse of what the NYC dial will look like when all the analog channels are turned off.


THIS IS NOT HOW IT IS NOW. THIS IS ONLY HOW IT WILL LOOK AFTER THE ANALOG STATIONS GET TURNED OFF (SOMETIME AFTER 2006.)


WABC -- 7

WCBS -- No Decision (waiting for next ballot.)

WNBC -- 28

WNYW -- 44

WNET -- 13

WLIW -- 21

WNJB -- 8

WNJN -- 51

WWOR -- 9

WPIX -- 11

WNYE -- 24

WXTV -- 40 (Maybe)

WNJU -- 36 (Maybe)


So far it looks like no one will be on the low V's (2-6.) Guess we'll still be needing those U/V combo antennas for a long time...


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *You can try titantv.com*



Thanks I found them there


----------



## tincan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *I just cruised the FCC web site and caught a glimpse of what the NYC dial will look like when all the analog channels are turned off.
> 
> 
> THIS IS NOT HOW IT IS NOW. THIS IS ONLY HOW IT WILL LOOK AFTER THE ANALOG STATIONS GET TURNED OFF (SOMETIME AFTER 2006.)
> 
> 
> WABC -- 7
> 
> WCBS -- No Decision (waiting for next ballot.)
> 
> WNBC -- 28
> 
> WNYW -- 44
> 
> WNET -- 13
> 
> WLIW -- 21
> 
> WNJB -- 8
> 
> WNJN -- 51
> 
> WWOR -- 9
> 
> WPIX -- 11
> 
> WNYE -- 24
> 
> WXTV -- 40 (Maybe)
> 
> WNJU -- 36 (Maybe)
> 
> 
> So far it looks like no one will be on the low V's (2-6.) Guess we'll still be needing those U/V combo antennas for a long time...*



Does VHF in the 7-13 range with a typical outdoor combo antenna travel farther or less far than UHF?


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *I agree with Gary. You're probably picking up a reflection. I'm about 20 miles north of the ESB and get 0 signal on VHF 61, but over 90 on all the other channels on the combiner. I'm jealous of your luck, because I'm a DirecTV customer and they're not carrying PBS in hi-def yet.
> 
> 
> /steve*



I'm in Jersey City, a mere 4 miles away from ESB (according to 2150 and antennaweb), and do not get even a whiff of channel 13. All other locals come in rock solid at about 70 degrees. I can rotate my CM4228 almost 10 degrees in either direction and still get them. Channel 13 is supposed to be at 64 degrees for me and I've rotated the antenna, in 1 degree increments, from 50-80 and get nothing.


Can we get a definitve answer to if/when WNET channel 13 will be on the combiner?


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tincan_
> *Does VHF in the 7-13 range with a typical outdoor combo antenna travel farther or less far than UHF?*



i'm not sure what the answer is but the power levels aren't a set thing either. A station picking one over the other would adjust their power level accordingly. So i dont know that range is as important as to how interference effects one or the other. (I believe that's why everyone is bailing on 2-6 as there is too much interference there)


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tincan_
> *Does VHF in the 7-13 range with a typical outdoor combo antenna travel farther or less far than UHF?*



VHF travels farther than UHF at the same power. Even though 2-6 travels even farther, it is considered less desirable for TV then the upper VHF channels due to interference from power line arcing and other mostly man-made interference. This is because analog TV uses AM modulation for the picture, and interference shows up as short horizontal streaks in the picture. The digital TV system was designed to be not as susceptible to this interference, but the larger antennas (receive and transmit) are still a pain. 7-13 are considered better than 2-6, and even UHF. It has the long range of VHF and the physically more manageable antenna size of UHF.


----------



## akadennis

Hello - Can someone recommend a good HDTV Antenna. I am currently using one that was provided when I had voom. I have this connected to the built in tuner on the television. I have not been able to get CBSHD and ABCHD comes and goes. I was looking at the Terk TV36. Thanks to anyone who responds


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by akadennis_
> *Hello - Can someone recommend a good HDTV Antenna. I am currently using one that was provided when I had voom. I have this connected to the built in tuner on the television. I have not been able to get CBSHD and ABCHD comes and goes. I was looking at the Terk TV36. Thanks to anyone who responds*



Just about everybody's favorite indoor antenna for HDTV reception is the Zenith (or Gemini) Silver Sensor. I have one in Brooklyn and I get just about everything (not WCBS though...). You can find them for around $25 online. Terks have a bad rep. Good luck, Dan


----------



## Swisher

After the combiner went up, I was happy with the increase in signal strength I was getting, except for UPN. I lost that completely. So I tried stacking my Silver Sensors to see how that would improve things. BIG improvement on everything, except WABC went completely dead. So I can't win. Of course, I'll take ABC over UPN, but is this the way things are going to be? Are we giving up analog only to force consumers into cable and satellite? I suppose it's only us city dwellers and those of us in the outer lying areas who have these problems...but... Am I whining? I don't want a pony, I just want my deserved free air waves!


----------



## pdroth

A few questions about the Silver Sensor -


From my window only I have line-of-sight to the ESB. If I were to get a Silver Sensor would it need to be pointed towards the window or in the direction of the ESB?


If the latter, how well will it pick up a signal if I'm about 50 ft from the front of the building, which is composed of brick, concrete, and steel?


I get the major HD stations through cable but we don't get UPN or WB yet and was looking at this as an option. My TV has a built-in ATSC tuner.


Thanks.


----------



## John Mason

May have missed it, but has anyone estimated how long it typicially takes to tweak a combiner?


There's such variations in reception, no signals, etc., etc., that I sometimes suspect an organized group of workers have decided to 'milk' the combiner tweaking for overtime as long as possible. Used to get the trade tower from my Midtown location but can't tune any HD station now. -- John


----------



## George Thompson

The combiner is tweaked. You are experiencing Digital UHF from ESB.


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *I'm in Jersey City, a mere 4 miles away from ESB (according to 2150 and antennaweb), and do not get even a whiff of channel 13. All other locals come in rock solid at about 70 degrees. I can rotate my CM4228 almost 10 degrees in either direction and still get them. Channel 13 is supposed to be at 64 degrees for me and I've rotated the antenna, in 1 degree increments, from 50-80 and get nothing.
> 
> 
> Can we get a definitve answer to if/when WNET channel 13 will be on the combiner?*



ElVee, I get Ch13 (the main channel and 2 sub-channels) pretty solid in JC with a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.


I am directly on the NY Harbor, though.


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wojtek_
> *ElVee, I get Ch13 (the main channel and 2 sub-channels) pretty solid in JC with a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> I am directly on the NY Harbor, though.*



I'm only about 1 mile from the Hudson River. Antenna-wise, I'm 1.9 miles from the old WTC ground zero site and 3.9 miles from ESB (think a right triangle, with WTC being the right angle).


According to 2150, they're at 60.3 degrees while everything at ESB is at 70.6 degrees. Again, I get everything from ESB rock solid. Maybe because channel 13 is at low power (2.66 Kw at 309 ft)?


My CM4228 is mounted on the roof of a 4 story brownstone. While I don't have a direct view of ESB, the building that is blocking my sight is one of the Newport towers, whbich is probably 1.5 miles or so away.


By the way, with this antenna turned towards Philly, I've been able to get channel 3 (78 miles away) on occasion, so I'm surprised that I can't even get a whiff of 13.


In the meantime, I guess I'll keep trying to rotate the antenna.


Thanks.


----------



## wojtek




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *I'm only about 1 mile from the Hudson River. Antenna-wise, I'm 1.9 miles from the old WTC ground zero site and 3.9 miles from ESB (think a right triangle, with WTC being the right angle).
> 
> 
> According to 2150, they're at 60.3 degrees while everything at ESB is at 70.6 degrees. Again, I get everything from ESB rock solid. Maybe because channel 13 is at low power (2.66 Kw at 309 ft)?
> 
> 
> My CM4228 is mounted on the roof of a 4 story brownstone. While I don't have a direct view of ESB, the building that is blocking my sight is one of the Newport towers, whbich is probably 1.5 miles or so away.
> 
> 
> By the way, with this antenna turned towards Philly, I've been able to get channel 3 (78 miles away) on occasion, so I'm surprised that I can't even get a whiff of 13.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, I guess I'll keep trying to rotate the antenna.
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



Maybe you can try the Silver Sensor. Best Buy had these, and if it does not work you can always return it. Amazing little indoor antenna.


----------



## HoundBaby

Anyone know whats up with WPAX 31.1.


----------



## akadennis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DanC-P_
> *Just about everybody's favorite indoor antenna for HDTV reception is the Zenith (or Gemini) Silver Sensor. I have one in Brooklyn and I get just about everything (not WCBS though...). You can find them for around $25 online. Terks have a bad rep. Good luck, Dan*



Thanks for responding Dan - I am in Brooklyn also and get everything but CBSHD and ABCHD comes and goes. My signal strength ranges from 54 to 87. 87 being Fox and 54 being ABC and NBC. I don't know if an indoor antenna will do the trick, granted I have not tried the ones you mentioned. I did try 2 Terk indoor antennas and returned them both. Do you know where I can purchase the Zenith or Gemini? By the way which one do you have?


----------



## michaelk

lately on the D* HD feed of WNBC- there's a pink, green, or purple tinted stripe accross the top of the picture. I am currently aimed at philly so i'm not sure if its D* or WNBC- are you guys seeing it OTA? My wife put on will and grace last night and i almost had a coronary that my display was in need of repair. Switching to another channel showed it's was only WNBC.


George Thompson- do you know anything?


----------



## Signalseeker

Help!! I still can not get WNBC channel 28 OTA. Everything else from NYC is coming in at > 80%. Is this a multipath issue or simply the signal pattern? I noticed a few other people posting here can not pick up WNBC. I noticed many of them reporting from towns basically in a straight line east between me and NYC. This is leading me to believe the problem is the transmission signal pattern.


----------



## Johnr0836

What's happening with ABC? No signal on 7-1,-2. Picture and sound appear on 45-1,-2 and no re-direct to 7-1,-2.


----------



## George Thompson

michaelk - D* takes an offair feed for WNBC-DT. It most likely is something they are inducing. It is not what is seen in L-Control. (Local Control).


Signalseeker- I have not seen a detailed contour map for ESB Ch28, so I can not give you an explaination. I have a feeling that there is a difference between a predicted contour and an actual one from what I see here, however slight. Also remember that ground effects due to terain play a major part of your reception.


GT


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Signalseeker_
> *Help!! I still can not get WNBC channel 28 OTA. Everything else from NYC is coming in at > 80%. Is this a multipath issue or simply the signal pattern? I noticed a few other people posting here can not pick up WNBC. I noticed many of them reporting from towns basically in a straight line east between me and NYC. This is leading me to believe the problem is the transmission signal pattern.*



I've never gotten a glimmer of a picture from WNBC-DT, either before or after the combiner. (WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT and WABC-DT are usually reliable.) Since the combiner went on, I've picked up WWOR-DT a couple of times with break-up and, on just one, fleeting, rainy night, I picked up WPIX-DT with break-ups. For me, then, the combiner hasn't made any difference except that my WABC-DT signal isn't as strong and reliable as it was after they boosted power in late summer at the Conde Nast Building. Oh well, as they say in Haiti, "...plus ca change,..."


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by akadennis_
> *Thanks for responding Dan - I am in Brooklyn also and get everything but CBSHD and ABCHD comes and goes. My signal strength ranges from 54 to 87. 87 being Fox and 54 being ABC and NBC. I don't know if an indoor antenna will do the trick, granted I have not tried the ones you mentioned. I did try 2 Terk indoor antennas and returned them both. Do you know where I can purchase the Zenith or Gemini? By the way which one do you have?*



I have the Zenith, but I am told they are absolutely identical -- some get branded "Zenith" while others go under the 'Gemini" brand name. I have read a lot of stories of people having very little luck with a wide variety of indoor antennas (especially Terks) before getting excellent results with the Silver Sensor. I wouldn't give up yet on indoor antennas! I got mine online (through a private seller listed on Amazon). You might try a search on this thread though as there was a discussion not too long ago about where they can be purchased in NYC. I got best results when I moved the antenna up to the third floor -- try that if it's an option.


Good luck,


Dan


----------



## Anthony in NYC

I have had very good results with the radioshack double bow tie indoors. The fact that it is flat makes it really flexible in terms of placement options. I hung it in my window with some fishing line and a plant hook. When the shades are closed you don't even notice its in the living room.


----------



## Signalseeker

Thank you George and S2. It has been driving me nuts trying to get WNBC, thankfully I can get it on D*, though I prefer the OTA signal. Soon after the combiner went live I got WNBC in at a high percent >80, for about 3 days and since then nothing. Go figure.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by George Thompson_
> *michaelk - D* takes an offair feed for WNBC-DT. It most likely is something they are inducing. It is not what is seen in L-Control. (Local Control).
> 
> 
> Signalseeker- I have not seen a detailed contour map for ESB Ch28, so I can not give you an explaination. I have a feeling that there is a difference between a predicted contour and an actual one from what I see here, however slight. Also remember that ground effects due to terain play a major part of your reception.
> 
> 
> GT*



thanks!


now i know to call Directv to complain.


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by s2silber_
> *I've never gotten a glimmer of a picture from WNBC-DT, either before or after the combiner. (WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT and WABC-DT are usually reliable.) Since the combiner went on, I've picked up WWOR-DT a couple of times with break-up and, on just one, fleeting, rainy night, I picked up WPIX-DT with break-ups. For me, then, the combiner hasn't made any difference except that my WABC-DT signal isn't as strong and reliable as it was after they boosted power in late summer at the Conde Nast Building. Oh well, as they say in Haiti, "...plus ca change,..."*



According to this site, if you're getting WABC-DT, I'm not sure why you're not getting WNBC-DT from your Latitude and Longitude. Take a look and see what I mean:

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations 


Maybe a different type of antenna would help?


/steve


----------



## tld

Something strange is going on tonight. I'm in central NJ and always get NY NBC and ABC perfectly. NBC's been cutting out all night and ABC is reporting as 45-1 rather that 7-1...just as others are reporting.


Tom


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *I'm only about 1 mile from the Hudson River. Antenna-wise, I'm 1.9 miles from the old WTC ground zero site and 3.9 miles from ESB (think a right triangle, with WTC being the right angle).
> 
> 
> According to 2150, they're at 60.3 degrees while everything at ESB is at 70.6 degrees. Again, I get everything from ESB rock solid. Maybe because channel 13 is at low power (2.66 Kw at 309 ft)?
> 
> 
> My CM4228 is mounted on the roof of a 4 story brownstone. While I don't have a direct view of ESB, the building that is blocking my sight is one of the Newport towers, whbich is probably 1.5 miles or so away.
> 
> 
> By the way, with this antenna turned towards Philly, I've been able to get channel 3 (78 miles away) on occasion, so I'm surprised that I can't even get a whiff of 13.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, I guess I'll keep trying to rotate the antenna.
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



Still can't get channel 13.


I'm starting from scratch.


Antennaweb says that channel 13 is at 70 degrees from me and at frequency 13. 2150 says channel 13 is at 64 degrees and is at frequency 61. I tend to believe 2150 because it seems more up to date.


Can anyone tell me which frequency is correct?


----------



## MLM

Don't know about WNBC which I'm getting perfectly well in NE Queens. But for the last few evenings, WABC has not been remapping to Ch. 7.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Still can't get channel 13.
> 
> 
> I'm starting from scratch.
> 
> 
> Antennaweb says that channel 13 is at 70 degrees from me and at frequency 13. 2150 says channel 13 is at 64 degrees and is at frequency 61. I tend to believe 2150 because it seems more up to date.
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me which frequency is correct?*



It's 61. But they are broadcasting at low power and aiming south. You're probably too far west to receive it until it goes on the combiner.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *Still can't get channel 13.
> 
> 
> I'm starting from scratch.
> 
> 
> Antennaweb says that channel 13 is at 70 degrees from me and at frequency 13. 2150 says channel 13 is at 64 degrees and is at frequency 61. I tend to believe 2150 because it seems more up to date.
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me which frequency is correct?*



Channel 13 Analog is on VHF13; antennaweb apparently isn't giving you info on Channel 13's digital signal on UHF61.


The info used at 2150.com is purely the FCC database info; and it's not exactly the most accurate data all the time -- believe it or not -- especially when things are being changed by the station. But what else can you rely on if the FCC doesn't even have it right?







Hopefully someone in the know will answer. (Not saying the info is definitely wrong, of course; just mentioning the FCC data isn't quite up to snuff all the time.)


But for sure, VHF13 is not the digital signal.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tld_
> *Something strange is going on tonight. I'm in central NJ and always get NY NBC and ABC perfectly. NBC's been cutting out all night and ABC is reporting as 45-1 rather that 7-1...just as others are reporting.
> 
> 
> Tom*



Funny thing---my wife complained to me this AM as she sat down to watch some stuff she'd recorded off of 4-1....and noticed that Medical Investigation has some sections of b/t 3-6 minutes of black screen or no sound. When I checked my signals from all the NYC OTA stations most everything is a solid 100 on my Hughes E86.


Also---I started getting an *almost* lockable signal on digital 36. I didn't get a chance to go to Doug's site. What's 36??


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Funny thing---my wife complained to me this AM as she sat down to watch some stuff she'd recorded off of 4-1....and noticed that Medical Investigation has some sections of b/t 3-6 minutes of black screen or no sound. When I checked my signals from all the NYC OTA stations most everything is a solid 100 on my Hughes E86.*



I recorded Medical Investigation on D* and had the same dead spots you mentioned on your OTA.


So far I still cannot recieve NBC via the OTA since the combiner when up. I receive CBS, UPN and FOX rock solid on OTA. How is that possible if they are all on the combiner?


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dswallow_
> *Channel 13 Analog is on VHF13; antennaweb apparently isn't giving you info on Channel 13's digital signal on UHF61.
> 
> 
> The info used at 2150.com is purely the FCC database info; and it's not exactly the most accurate data all the time -- believe it or not -- especially when things are being changed by the station. But what else can you rely on if the FCC doesn't even have it right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully someone in the know will answer. (Not saying the info is definitely wrong, of course; just mentioning the FCC data isn't quite up to snuff all the time.)
> 
> 
> But for sure, VHF13 is not the digital signal.*



Thanks Doug.


So, unless we hear otherwise, I should be able to get channel 13's digital sinal on UHF61?


It's odd, because the HR10-250 does not list it as channel 61. In fact, when I add Philadelphia as my second local area, the PAX channel 61 from Philadelphia shows up instead.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I recorded Medical Investigation on D* and had the same dead spots you mentioned on your OTA.
> 
> 
> So far I still cannot recieve NBC via the OTA since the combiner when up. I receive CBS, UPN and FOX rock solid on OTA. How is that possible if they are all on the combiner?*



Are you able to get ANY signal on 4-1 according to your STB? I'm pretty sure there are others in your area on this board who can get NBC OTA. Try the Central Jersey Forum if you get a chance. Also, as George said a few posts before this one I'm not sure exactly what NBC's contour map looks like for their signal coverage....but Matawan isn't *too* far from me....so you should get SOME sniff of a signal.


How's your signal on ABC-OTA?


AFA the issue with Medical Investigation and WNBC, I also had a chance to watch an episode of "Joey" recorded off of 4-1 and the volume was all mangled....voices were nearly inaudible while laugh tracks and background noise were booming. Then the picture went from 16:9 to 4:3.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Are you able to get ANY signal on 4-1 according to your STB? I'm pretty sure there are others in your area on this board who can get NBC OTA. Try the Central Jersey Forum if you get a chance. Also, as George said a few posts before this one I'm not sure exactly what NBC's contour map looks like for their signal coverage....but Matawan isn't *too* far from me....so you should get SOME sniff of a signal.How's your signal on ABC-OTA?
> *



I am not techie on the signal strength and how it works. My logic is if they are all on the same combiner how is that I get some? I am using a HR10-250 for my OTA.


2-1 Rock solid

4-1 Zero

5-1 Rock solid

7-1 Zero

9-1 Almost rock solid

11-1 Flaky at times


----------



## dan57

Gary, just up the road from you in E Brunswick, I get NBC on 4-1 pretty solid.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's been discussed here previously, but very simply -

each station on the Combiner has its own individual power limit

and its own individual frequency.


Even though all the signals are emanating from the same location, frequency differences can play a huge difference in the quality of

reception. This is especially true when it comes to the reception

of multipath signals.


Also, although WNYW-DT transmits from the Empire State Building,

it is not part of the Combiner project, the station has its own antenna

on the building. The FCC has authorized the station to increase its

power to become the most powerful station in the market, but I believe

that the increase has not happened as of yet.


Gary


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I am not techie on the signal strength and how it works. My logic is if they are all on the same combiner how is that I get some? I am using a HR10-250 for my OTA.
> 
> 
> 2-1 Rock solid
> 
> 4-1 Zero
> 
> 5-1 Rock solid
> 
> 7-1 Zero
> 
> 9-1 Almost rock solid
> 
> 11-1 Flaky at times*



What type of antenna are you using? Pre-amp? One level home? Outdoor antenna? I'm sure you probably heard these questions before....but as someone who's been through the TORTURE of gleaning OTA signals I *tried* not to leave ANY stone unturned before I FINALLY gave up on gleaning the signals (For me, it was the Philly market back in 2003/2004 before the NYC OTA's lit up again....)


----------



## Alexvd

I posted about problems with CBS before.


I dont get it 4-1, 5-1,7-1,9-1,11-1 no problems. Signal strength is still good. CBS was rock solid last night for hours not a single dropout.


Today I turned it on and my signal strength is way low and I get no signal.


I know its raining but how could this possibly be if all the other channels dont have issues.


They even fixed 58-5.


I just dont understand. The CM4228 should have fixed all this.


Anyone else having issues with 2-1. I am in Mountainside,NJ. That is right about 20 miles from the ESB.


----------



## Gary Quiring

I started thinking and realized I stoped receiving ABC when it went up on the combiner. Prior to the combiner I had a pretty good signal on many days. I cannot find a listing of the channels but started looking for a signal on any channel. I found a strong signal on 45-1 which turns out to be ABC. I don't know why but my 7-1 does not work. The signal strength for 45-1 is good but I get no digital identifier like I do on the other channels.


What channel is NBC on? I tried antennaweb.org but I don't see ABC or NBC in digital.


Anyone know how to tell the HR10 Tivo where ABC really is? I tried clearing the channels and I also did a power cycle with no luck.


This is good news, as my main interest in OTA is to build a MythTV box. I was not going to invest in the hardware until I was certain I could receive the primary networks on OTA.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC-DT broadcasts over Channel 28.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I started thinking and realized I stoped receiving ABC when it went up on the combiner. Prior to the combiner I had a pretty good signal on many days. I cannot find a listing of the channels but started looking for a signal on any channel. I found a strong signal on 45-1 which turns out to be ABC. I don't know why but my 7-1 does not work. The signal strength for 45-1 is good but I get no digital identifier like I do on the other channels.
> 
> 
> What channel is NBC on? I tried antennaweb.org but I don't see ABC or NBC in digital.
> 
> 
> Anyone know how to tell the HR10 Tivo where ABC really is? I tried clearing the channels and I also did a power cycle with no luck.
> 
> 
> This is good news, as my main interest in OTA is to build a MythTV box. I was not going to invest in the hardware until I was certain I could receive the primary networks on OTA.*



Gary i've also had problems getting WABC-DT since the combiner. i'm only .75 mi from the ESB but when ABC broadcast from Times Square it was solid. now it almost never comes in.

The channel mapping issue sounds like a PSIP problem-either your tuner isn't reading it or ABC's PSIP generator is screwy. that's only a guess-anyone else having the same problem? Maybe George T. has some info. ?



jim


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I started thinking and realized I stoped receiving ABC when it went up on the combiner. Prior to the combiner I had a pretty good signal on many days. I cannot find a listing of the channels but started looking for a signal on any channel. I found a strong signal on 45-1 which turns out to be ABC. I don't know why but my 7-1 does not work. The signal strength for 45-1 is good but I get no digital identifier like I do on the other channels.
> 
> 
> What channel is NBC on? I tried antennaweb.org but I don't see ABC or NBC in digital.
> 
> 
> Anyone know how to tell the HR10 Tivo where ABC really is? I tried clearing the channels and I also did a power cycle with no luck.
> 
> 
> This is good news, as my main interest in OTA is to build a MythTV box. I was not going to invest in the hardware until I was certain I could receive the primary networks on OTA.*



I'm having the same mapping problems the last few days with ABC-DT and the HR10-250. I would assume that it's a temporary problem. We had that a few weeks ago and it was resolved. Hopefully they fix it before 'Lost' on Wednesday. (don't know if it's new, for anyone interested)


----------



## kcn823

Same problem with ABC re-mapping to 7-1 from 45-1 on my hdtivo. It's really annoying when this happens. I might have to start switching all my ABC season passes to directv ch 86.


----------



## tstatguy112

I contacted channel 13.

The HDTV signal is directed at Newark so it can only be seen by a few viewers in that immediate area.

They are planning on moving the HDTV signal to the Empire State Building

later this year, but no definite date has been set.

Of course I was reminded I could shell out more money to the cable companies and get the broadcast from them. No thanks


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tstatguy112_
> *I contacted channel 13.
> 
> The HDTV signal is directed at Newark so it can only be seen by a few viewers in that immediate area.
> 
> They are planning on moving the HDTV signal to the Empire State Building
> 
> later this year, but no definite date has been set.
> 
> Of course I was reminded I could shell out more money to the cable companies and get the broadcast from them. No thanks*



I'd think Jersey City would have a chance to get channel 13 HD. I'm not in an exact direct line from midtown to Newark, but pretty close.


----------



## bagchis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kcn823_
> *Same problem with ABC re-mapping to 7-1 from 45-1 on my hdtivo. It's really annoying when this happens. I might have to start switching all my ABC season passes to directv ch 86.*



Me too! Except that I am using a Toshiba DLP TV with built-in tuner. Used to get ABC at 7-1, but now there's no signal, even though the signal meter shows good signal strength for channel 45. Cleared out my settings and rescanned many times with no luck.


----------



## bs77

Same problem here with 7-1 now remapped to 45-1. I noticed this problem last friday when I recieved the "F" update for my Hd-Tivo. Maybe this has something to do with it ???


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bs77_
> *Same problem here with 7-1 now remapped to 45-1. I noticed this problem last friday when I recieved the "F" update for my Hd-Tivo. Maybe this has something to do with it ???*



Same here on my HD TiVo. No problems on my 921 though.


----------



## tld

What the hell is up with NBC any more. It seems to wait for important prime time shows to cut out on me. I was getting it perfectly since they went to the combiner, and my system certainly hasn't changed. Any one else have this problem lately? As I said earlier, I'm in central NJ.


It's not like the signal starts getting dodgy or anything either...it goes from perfect to totally gone, and then comes back later on.


Tom


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by tld_
> *What the hell is up with NBC any more. It seems to wait for important prime time shows to cut out on me. I was getting it perfectly since they went to the combiner, and my system certainly hasn't changed. Any one else have this problem lately? As I said earlier, I'm in central NJ.
> 
> 
> It's not like the signal starts getting dodgy or anything either...it goes from perfect to totally gone, and then comes back later on.
> 
> 
> Tom*



I've had 10-15 minute dropouts on all NBC shows since Friday (Medical Investigation, Trial by Jury and Croosing Jordan). WTF?!


----------



## tld

Wow...am I glad it's not just me! Get this...after I lost NBC tonight I checked my signal strength and I had a steady 80%. It's got to be something on their end.


Tom


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *I've had 10-15 minute dropouts on all NBC shows since Friday (Medical Investigation, Trial by Jury and Croosing Jordan). WTF?!*



I am not sure if OTA is effected tonight (Monday) but Medium via D* has been on/off all evening.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *I am not sure if OTA is effected tonight (Monday) but Medium via D* has been on/off all evening.*



Oh it's an OTA issue as well. Once again the wife complained when Las Vegas was all SNAFU'D once again. Numerous black screen issues, as well as the standard 16:9 to 4:3 screen at least 3-4 different times.


----------



## acebreathe

Guess it's unanimous. ABC remapped to 45-1 and 45-2. Don't worry about Lost Mikeny, it's another repeat. The best thing about the past weekend was getting to switch back and forth between the hd feed on CBS 2-1, and the national feed of a different game on 2.


----------



## harican

at 4:14 am on 3/22/05 all the over the air digital channels are down.


except for:

Channel 44 - WNYW-DT (FOX)

Channel 36 - I believe Univision (spanish) - don't know the call letters

Channel 53 - WFUT-DT Telefutura (spanish)

Channel 51 - WNJN-DT (PBS)

Channel 29 - WFME-DT (Christian programming)





WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WABC-DT, WWOR-DT, WPIX-DT, WPXN-DT, WXTV-DT (spanish - channel 40) are all down.


----------



## harican

at 4:14 am on 3/22/05 all the over the air digital channels are down.


except for:

Channel 44 - WNYW-DT (FOX)

Channel 36 - I believe Univision (spanish) - don't know the call letters

Channel 53 - WFUT-DT Telefutura (spanish)

Channel 51 - WNJN-DT (PBS)

Channel 29 - WFME-DT (Christian programming)





WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WABC-DT, WWOR-DT, WPIX-DT, WPXN-DT, WXTV-DT (spanish - channel 40) are all down.


----------



## harican

I am sorry, I meant to post this in the NYC OTA thread, but instead created a new thread,


In that case, I would like to change the thread's name to "all the over the air digital channels are down in New York City"


----------



## harican

I figured out how to change the name of the thread. All is O.K>


----------



## harican

I just checked my digital channels via Cablevision, SA4200HD box at 4:25 a.m. and:


Channel 702 (WCBS-DT) = down

Channel 704 (WNBC-DT) = live

Channel 705 (WNYW-DT) = live

Channel 707 (WABC-DT) = live

Channel 713 (WNET-DT) = live - this is irrelevant because it is not available over the air



I guess this means that Cablevision receives the digital feeds of WNBC-DT and WABC-DT via fiber optics directly feed from the station.


WNYW-DT and WCBS-DT are received by Cablevision using conventional means (antenna)


----------



## harican

I just checked my digital channels via Cablevision, SA4200HD box at 4:25 a.m. and:


Channel 702 (WCBS-DT) = down

Channel 704 (WNBC-DT) = live

Channel 705 (WNYW-DT) = live

Channel 707 (WABC-DT) = live

Channel 713 (WNET-DT) = live - this is irrelevant because it is not available over the air



I guess this means that Cablevision receives the digital feeds of WNBC-DT and WABC-DT via fiber optics directly feed from the station.


WNYW-DT and WCBS-DT are received by Cablevision using conventional means (antenna)


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Also---I started getting an *almost* lockable signal on digital 36. I didn't get a chance to go to Doug's site. What's 36??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



WNJU-DT. Telemundo Spanish. Been on the air from the same site as WFME-DT 29 (religious) for a while at low power.


- Trip


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Trip in VA_
> *WNJU-DT. Telemundo Spanish. Been on the air from the same site as WFME-DT 29 (religious) for a while at low power.
> 
> 
> - Trip*



In keeping with the spirit of Telemundo I say.....Gracias.


----------



## RZ

My Sony HD100 gets ABC at 7-1 just fine. My HD Tivo doesn't, but remaps to 45-1. Seems like a HD Tivo problem. What's the fix?


----------



## CPanther95

Threads Merged.


----------



## Steve L

Frustrating thing has been happening since Friday night. I usually record NBC OTA in the NY area on 4.1, and the last 5 NBC HD shows I've tried to record all show in the now playing list as being 1-hour recordings, but in reality are about 40-50 minutes long and are missing random parts of the shows.


I'd love to blame 3.15f for this, but it's apparently just NBC! 24 and CSI:Miami taped just fine last night, e.g., along with HDNet and several SD channels.


The shows I lost were Medical Emergency and Law & Order: Trial by Jury on Friday night, Law & Order: Criminal Intent and Crossing Jordan on Sunday night, and Medium last night (Monday).


Anyone experiencing anything similar? I'm wondering if I should switch my seasons passes to NBC on D* instead? I've been recording NBC OTA since last fall with no problems, until this week-end.


Thanks.


/steve


----------



## Steve L

Frustrating thing has been happening since Friday night. I usually record NBC OTA in the NY area on 4.1, and the last 5 NBC HD shows I've tried to record all show in the now playing list as being 1-hour recordings, but in reality are about 40-50 minutes long and are missing random parts of the shows.


I'd love to blame 3.15f for this, but it's apparently just NBC! 24 and CSI:Miami taped just fine last night, e.g., along with HDNet and several SD channels.


The shows I lost were Medical Emergency and Law & Order: Trial by Jury on Friday night, Law & Order: Criminal Intent and Crossing Jordan on Sunday night, and Medium last night (Monday).


Anyone experiencing anything similar? I'm wondering if I should switch my seasons passes to NBC on D* instead? I've been recording NBC OTA since last fall with no problems, until this week-end.


Thanks.


/steve


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Oh it's an OTA issue as well. Once again the wife complained when Las Vegas was all SNAFU'D once again. Numerous black screen issues, as well as the standard 16:9 to 4:3 screen at least 3-4 different times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



My recording of Law & Order CI from Sun, 3/20 had the same symptoms. Bad timing also, like during the opening scene when they found the "vic".

You need to try to figure out who died.


----------



## sangs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *Frustrating thing has been happening since Friday night. I usually record NBC OTA in the NY area on 4.1, and the last 5 NBC HD shows I've tried to record all show in the now playing list as being 1-hour recordings, but in reality are about 40-50 minutes long and are missing random parts of the shows. I'd love to blame 3.15f for this, but it's apparently just NBC! 24 and CSI:Miami taped just fine last night, e.g., along with HDNet and several SD channels. The shows I lost were Medical Emergency and Law & Order: Trial by Jury on Friday night, Law & Order: Criminal Intent and Crossing Jordan on Sunday night, and Medium last night (Monday). Anyone experiencing anything similar? I'm wondering if I should switch my seasons passes to NBC on D* instead? I've been recording NBC OTA since last fall with no problems, until this week-end.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> /steve*



Funny you say that, because I've become so fed up with the 4.1 anomalies that I switched my "L&O Trial By Jury" SP to 82 (the DirecTV HD feed) and it lost about 10 minutes or so of last week's episode. There were two 5-minute blocks of blackness from the satellite feed. It's the only HD NBC show that I have an SP for, so I don't know if it's happened on others.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *Frustrating thing has been happening since Friday night. I usually record NBC OTA in the NY area on 4.1, and the last 5 NBC HD shows I've tried to record all show in the now playing list as being 1-hour recordings, but in reality are about 40-50 minutes long and are missing random parts of the shows.
> 
> 
> I'd love to blame 3.15f for this, but it's apparently just NBC! 24 and CSI:Miami taped just fine last night, e.g., along with HDNet and several SD channels.
> 
> 
> The shows I lost were Medical Emergency and Law & Order: Trial by Jury on Friday night, Law & Order: Criminal Intent and Crossing Jordan on Sunday night, and Medium last night (Monday).
> 
> 
> Anyone experiencing anything similar? I'm wondering if I should switch my seasons passes to NBC on D* instead? I've been recording NBC OTA since last fall with no problems, until this week-end.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> /steve*



Yes, the same thing happened to me last night with _Medium_ on my HR10-250. It only recorded about 40 minutes, and the middle of the show was missing.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Is anyone else not able to get the WABC digital broadcast at 7-1 and 7-2 on the HR10-250? I have not been able to bring it in since last Wednesday or Thursday. I read somewhere here that it was remapped to 45-1 and I was bringing that in, but then I rescanned my channels and now that won't come in either. This happened before when the Combiner first went up, I couldn't bring in CBS at 2-1 . The remapped channels coming through doesn't help either because there is no guide information for them.


----------



## CPanther95

Post #4813 merged in.


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Yes, the same thing happened to me last night with Medium on my HR10-250. It only recorded about 40 minutes, and the middle of the show was missing.*



I posted this over on the Tivocommunity forum as well, and apparently it's been happening to a few folks, even recording NBC via D* and Cablevision. Guess the problem is with the NBC East source broadcast from the ESB.


I'm relieved to know it's not something with my set-up, but sorry to hear others are having problems as well.


/steve


----------



## FrankieB

I have been having the same trouble with NBC. I noticed that 4.1 cuts out ramdomly and at the same time D* ch.82 (NBC-HD) is offline. But D* ch.4 (NBC-SD) works fine. So it appears it is strictly an NBC digital problem.


----------



## bs77

Just checked my HR10-250 and 7-1 is back where its supposed to be










I did do a rescan a couple of hours ago, dont know if that had anything to do with it.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by GoldenBoy_
> *Yes, the same thing happened to me last night with Medium on my HR10-250. It only recorded about 40 minutes, and the middle of the show was missing.*



It's not just a problem with D*, I had the same drop outs on my 921 with last night's Medium. I see tonights Will & Grace recorded the full show. It was in SD so I wonder if it's NBC HD equipment? Anyone have NBCs engineering dept phone number?


----------



## trend1

7-1 is back for me as well!


Tony


----------



## Steve L

L&O:SVU recorded OK last night (Tuesday), so I"m hopeful NBC NY fixed whatever was wrong yesterday.


/steve


----------



## GoldenBoy

I have 7-1 and 7-2 back as well.


----------



## RZ

Mine is back, too. 7-1 OK. But I still switched to DirecTV's HD locals, for my season passes,just in case.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RZ_
> *Mine is back, too. 7-1 OK. But I still switched to DirecTV's HD locals, for my season passes,just in case.*



D*'s HD locals are rebroadcast from the same transmitter you're getting your OTA from. They do NOT have a fiber connection. The only way this would save you is if the problem was from your antenna.


----------



## mikeny

dturturro,


RZ was referring to the recent ABC-DT OTA remapping problem which has plagued the HD Tivo.


It had nothing to do with the antenna.


If you had your recordings scheduled to record "7-1" you would have recorded nothing, even with a signal strength of 100 at uhf 45.


RZ was just questioning the future reliability of the Tivo's remapping.


----------



## ykavs

Does anyone know what happened to WNYE Ch. 24? It seemed to have split into 24-1 to 24-4 with no video signal since few days ago.


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RZ_
> *Mine is back, too. 7-1 OK. But I still switched to DirecTV's HD locals, for my season passes,just in case.*



Just my luck










I switched my season passes from 7-1 OTA to Directv 86,

I was very dissaponted to find out that Lost & Alias didnt record last night!!


The heavy wet snow we got covered my dish and the signal went out


I didnt notice this to afterwards because I was watching OTA which wasnt affected by the snow!!! Go Figure.....


I just cant win


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *L&O:SVU recorded OK last night (Tuesday), so I"m hopeful NBC NY fixed whatever was wrong yesterday.
> 
> 
> /steve*



Any reports on WNBC-DT HD OTA from Wednesday night?


----------



## Steve L

Wednesday night's L&O was OK. Wife reports tonight's "Joey" was OK as well.


/steve


----------



## mad6c

It wasn't HD for me. Black bars on the left and right.


Mike


----------



## netman

Last nights trial by jury by way of MyHD recording has audio problems. Little tiny clicks or breakups.



edit: Program got worse further in


----------



## Steve L

Haven't watched TBJ yet, but I was flipping channels last night and noticed that there were also audio problems with Medical Investigation, which was on NBC HD from 9-10.


The weather in the NYC area was fine last night, so it appears there are still some unresolved NBC equipment problems, dating back to Friday, 3/18, by my reckoning.


/steve


----------



## netman

The program was not HD about 2/3 through. Whatever they are going through over there I hope they get it worked out. This is going on two weeks now.


----------



## dturturro

I had to dump Medical Investigation, TBJ and Leno due to the audio break ups.


----------



## John Mason

Elsewhere, viewers indicate that NBC's digital 5.1 audio breakups were 'cured' by switching a receiver to PCM, or using plain stereo out from a receiver/cable converter. -- John


----------



## mciaio

Cheers Mates, First time posting here. Searched the forums and didn't find my answer. What is the deal with WNBC-DT. I am 45 miles north of ESB and behind a hill. I get everything except WNBC. It just sits at 49% then will jump to 60 for a second then then back down to 49. Maybe bounce to 0 for a second. Do you gents think this is a problem with my antenna aiming or is that signal level just too low.


WCBS 69%

WNBC bounces 0%-60% sometimes with picture

Fox 67%

WABC 70%

WWOR 74%

WPIX 64%

WFME-D(29.1) 70%

WXTV(41.1) 75%

WNJN 63%

WFUT 63%

WNJU 49% no picture currently - not that I need this station


So gents, antenna aiming? I peaked on WABC when I set it up yesterday.


Michael.


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else seeing WNJU (71-1?) on their STB programming guide??


I did a rescan the other night (as I was having issues with 4-1) and my STB (D* RCA DTC210) acquired WNJU's signal....but it's in the guide as 71-1 (right after SHO-HD for you D* users). I believe it is analog 47 (and digital 36) but it comes up on my guide as 71-1.


Odd. Is that the "national designation" for this spanish network ("Digital" 71)?


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by John Mason_
> *Elsewhere, viewers indicate that NBC's digital 5.1 audio breakups were 'cured' by switching a receiver to PCM, or using plain stereo out from a receiver/cable converter. -- John*




Yeah, by the time I suspected that might help I had erased the file. Not much of a cure but at least you can watch the show without endagering your sanity. Glad to have confrimation it would have worked!


----------



## mciaio




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jaypb_
> *Anyone else seeing WNJU (71-1?) on their STB programming guide??
> 
> 
> I did a rescan the other night (as I was having issues with 4-1) and my STB (D* RCA DTC210) acquired WNJU's signal....but it's in the guide as 71-1 (right after SHO-HD for you D* users). I believe it is analog 47 (and digital 36) but it comes up on my guide as 71-1.
> 
> 
> Odd. Is that the "national designation" for this spanish network ("Digital" 71)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Shows up on my E* 811 as 71-01 WNJU.


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mciaio_
> *Cheers Mates, First time posting here. Searched the forums and didn't find my answer. What is the deal with WNBC-DT. I am 45 miles north of ESB and behind a hill. I get everything except WNBC. It just sits at 49% then will jump to 60 for a second then then back down to 49. Maybe bounce to 0 for a second. Do you gents think this is a problem with my antenna aiming or is that signal level just too low.
> 
> 
> WCBS 69%
> 
> WNBC bounces 0%-60% sometimes with picture
> 
> Fox 67%
> 
> WABC 70%
> 
> WWOR 74%
> 
> WPIX 64%
> 
> WFME-D(29.1) 70%
> 
> WXTV(41.1) 75%
> 
> WNJN 63%
> 
> WFUT 63%
> 
> WNJU 49% no picture currently - not that I need this station
> 
> 
> So gents, antenna aiming? I peaked on WABC when I set it up yesterday.
> 
> 
> Michael.*



I would try aiming the antenna while trying to receive WNBC. Even though ABC and NBC are transmitting from the same antenna on the ESB, the difference in channel frequency ( Ch45 vs Ch28 ) do affect the propagation and the amount of reflected signals received. It sounds like you are getting a lot of multipath on NBC as evidenced by the deep fades to zero and peaks to 60% in signal strength. If possible you might try moving the antenna a few feet up or down on the mast and see if this makes any difference. As a last resort you might try moving the antenna to a location a few feet away. At UHF frequencies, the signal wavelength is only on the order of a foot or less, so a small change in antenna location can make a big difference.


It seems that you must be in a pretty good location if you can receive all these stations from Mahopac. I can barely receive WNJU at all and I am at least 25 miles closer to their transmitter.


----------



## Taget

I was watching Superman 2 yesterday on Turner Classic Movies and in one scene one of the guys goes barrelling into the broadcast tower on top of the Empire State Building causing it to crash to the ground. Was I the only one who started crying, "Come on. After waiting that long for the combiner? There goes my HDTV!"


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ElVee_
> *I'd think Jersey City would have a chance to get channel 13 HD. I'm not in an exact direct line from midtown to Newark, but pretty close.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Anyone having any luck getting WNET channel 13 in HD yet?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Taget_
> *I was watching Superman 2 yesterday on Turner Classic Movies and in one scene one of the guys goes barrelling into the broadcast tower on top of the Empire State Building causing it to crash to the ground. Was I the only one who started crying, "Come on. After waiting that long for the combiner? There goes my HDTV!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



That's just too cruel of a thought to even consider!


----------



## LINDELLTOM

As far as i know there is'nt one person in Nassau and Suffolk who receives 13 in HDTV, how many million is that? Six people in Newark receive 13 in HD, all on the same street, but keep those checks coming in, to pay for that fancy building on the westside. I'm referring to OTA.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by LINDELLTOM_
> *As far as i know there is'nt one person in Nassau and Suffolk who receives 13 in HDTV, how many million is that? Six people in Newark receive 13 in HD, all on the same street, but keep those checks coming in, to pay for that fancy building on the westside. I'm referring to OTA.*




And let's not forget that Channel 13 was allowed to buy Channel 21 because they had the deep pockets to get them into digital transmission. Anybody see

WLIW-DT lately? Nope


----------



## mciaio




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mondesign_
> *I would try aiming the antenna...It sounds like you are getting a lot of multipath on NBC as evidenced by the deep fades to zero and peaks to 60% in signal strength. If possible you might try moving the antenna a few feet up or down on the mast...
> 
> 
> It seems that you must be in a pretty good location if you can receive all these stations from Mahopac. I can barely receive WNJU at all and I am at least 25 miles closer to their transmitter.*



Thanks for the input, I just got down from the roof, I moved the antenna up about a foot on the mast and re-aimed. Some signals went down and some went up, but now I am getting all the channels watchable. Funny thing is I came home last night and was able to watch SNL with only minor drop outs. I couldn't even watch WNBC yesterday morning. I guess time of day makes a difference.


WCBS was 69% now 62% get on E* anyway

WNBC was 0%-60% sometimes with picture now 67%

Fox was 67% now 70%

WABC was 70% now 73%

WWOR was 74% now 78%

WPIX was 64% now 69%

WFME-D(29.1) was 70% now 70%

WXTV(41.1) was 75% now 79%

WNJN was 63% now 63%

WFUT was 63% now 61%

WNJU was 49% now it didn't rescan in


Right now picture on 9-01 seems to be frozen but working on 5-02. Maybe just my crappy E* 811 STB.


My reception is in big part to my Channel Master 4228 and Channel Master 7775. My house is at about 650 feet above sea level. It's a three story house and the antenna is on a 10 foot mast. That puts the antenna at about 700 feet. The antenna is pointed right at a couple of tall trees 100 yards in front of it and a 900 foot hill 1000 yards in front of it. I consider reception of HDTV a freakin' miracle here. It's got to be the antenna, gotta be the best one you can get.


Take a look:


hdtv.computers-unlimitedny.com


----------



## seldenpat

My 11.1 was out this evening. UHF33. I didn't see any other mention of this...Is this just me?


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by seldenpat_
> *My 11.1 was out this evening. UHF33. I didn't see any other mention of this...Is this just me?*



Had problem too. Just tried it at 23:15 and I got it


----------



## pdroth

Silver Sensor/cabling question:


I picked up the antenna and was able to get 4.1, 7.1, 9.1/9.2, 11.1 - signal in the 60s. Can't get CBS or WNET - signal strength too low in the 20s.


I would like to move the antenna near the window and this would require me running about 30 ft of cable to do so. Would this be a problem? Would I need an amp?


I'm less than 2 miles away from ESB and from the window I have line of sight to the antenna. However the location of the TV is deep inside the apt so I'm guessing that's why I have limited reception.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Steve L

You can always add the amp later. I would try just the cable first and see what happens.


As you probably already know, the amp needs to be located at the antenna end, not the receiver end, if you do have to use one.


/steve


----------



## dturturro

30 feet isn't really THAT long of a cable run. Make sure it's RG-6, preferably Quad shield. That will minimize loss/interference.


----------



## dturturro

30 feet isn't really THAT long of a cable run. Make sure it's RG-6, preferably Quad shield. That will minimize loss/interference.


You probably won't get WNET until it moves to the ESB.


----------



## HoundBaby

Anyone having trouble with NBC tonight. 9:10 PM


----------



## ykavs

It is probably due to the torrential downpour. I received NBC without problem though. 11.1 was a bit flaky.


----------



## Infominister

For me, the rain means better reception. I got 38 steadily and 33 with breakups. The last time I got any signal at all on those channels was the last another night of heavy rain a month or so ago.


----------



## trekkerj

I'm having trouble with the audio on WWOR-DT--it's very choppy. Anyone else? My signal is good, so I imagine it's at the source.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *I'm having trouble with the audio on WWOR-DT--it's very choppy. Anyone else? My signal is good, so I imagine it's at the source.*



Yes, I got the same thing during Veronica Mars.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Unoriginal Nick_
> *Yes, I got the same thing during Veronica Mars.*



Same for me too.....BTW...for months I've been getting audio dropouts on 5-2.

Anyone else get that too?


----------



## jkellynewyork

I live in Manhattan on the 25th floor of a high rise. I bought the Sony KDE 50" and want to get the antenna for HDTV -


Will I be able to get HDTV through the antenna with all the buildings around?

Is HDTV through the antenna better or worse than through the cable company?


----------



## CPanther95

Threads merged.


----------



## trekkerj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mw390_
> *Same for me too.....BTW...for months I've been getting audio dropouts on 5-2.
> 
> Anyone else get that too?*



Why are you even watching 5-2? That's low bandwidth SD.


----------



## jkellynewyork

Can anyone recommend the best value antenna to get for manhattan apartment buildings.


Also, do I need to hang the antenna out the window?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jkellynewyork_
> *Can anyone recommend the best value antenna to get for manhattan apartment buildings.
> 
> 
> Also, do I need to hang the antenna out the window?*



I also live in a Manhattan high-rise.


You are entering very interesting and frustrating "terrain!"


First, I assume that from where you are located, you do not have line-of-sight to the top of the Empire State Building - i.e., you can't see it from one of your windows.


Even if you had line-of-sight, you will be plagued by multipath signals. They are signals from the transmitting antenna being reflected by various buildings between you and the the antenna. That complicates things, but in a perverse way can help you. You can, as I, aim an antenna to pick-up a strong/quality multipath signal.


My living room windows face West and I have placed a Silver Sensor indoor antenna on the window sill and point it South/Southwest.


The Silver Sensor is available on-line and at Sears. The important thing is to make sure that you can return the antenna ($20-$30 or so) if it doesn't do the trick for you.


Digital UHF reception can be difficult and to non-engineers incomprehensibly illogical.


I would not consider an antenna with an amplifier. You would more than likely overload the front end of your tuner with too strong of a signal.


Experimentation - walking the antenna around your apartment will be the drill.


Hope this helps.


Gary


----------



## jkellynewyork

Excellent Gary!! Thank you very much. I am on east 87 street and facing the west side and I dont see the Empire State Building, but I will try out what you say.


----------



## jkellynewyork

I am very excited to compare the difference between HDTV and regular analog cable tv!!


----------



## HDntheCity

hi & welcome jkelly-!!!


i have to echo Gary's advice. i also have the Silver Sensor & it works VERY well with a little fiddling. mostly trial & error to find a sweet spot where you can pick good signals. i'm not familar with your Sony display but it does have a built-in ATSC tuner? otherwise you'll need to invest in an outboard tuner.

whether HD is better OTA or cable/satellite gets debated a lot--i have Directv for the big four networks and i honestly can't see any significant difference-but that's just my opinion. i can tell you your efforts in getting OTA signals will be worth it! up to 6 chs. with at least some HD content(7 when[if] WNET-DT gets on the combiner). i can say that the SD content on the digital chs DOES look cleaner than anything on cable-just remember you'll be stuck with pillar boxing(black or gray bars on the sides) on non-HD programming. part of the signal-usually can't be stretched. good luck with it all!!


jim


----------



## roytucker

I live in Central New Jersey (50 miles from ESB), and I get WOR, WPIX, FOX, CBS, ABC all in the 80-90 strength range. However, I cannot get the NBC much above 60, mostly 50's which is not enough to prevent occasional breakups.


Being that these are all transmitted from the same location, can someone advise on why this would consistently be this way.


----------



## Swisher

I've been struggling with my Silver Sensor for months. Able to get most channels, but always missing one or two because of multipathing. So the other night I tried stacking two Silver Sensors to try to reduce multipath. It helped increase reception to most, but I still lost others. I tried a lot of different angles before I finally gave up and got caught up in a program. About an hour later as I was lying there, one of the Silver Sensors fell off the high book shelf it was on. Since it was stacked with another one, it was just dangling there, and the other antenna flipped on its side, still at the top of the book shelf. So, for kicks, I ran through the channels - and I get them ALL, perfectly. So do I leave these things hanging off the side of my book shelf forever? Perfect HD takes priority over "the look" of my apartment anyday.


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Swisher_
> *I've been struggling with my Silver Sensor for months. Able to get most channels, but always missing one or two because of multipathing. So the other night I tried stacking two Silver Sensors to try to reduce multipath. It helped increase reception to most, but I still lost others. I tried a lot of different angles before I finally gave up and got caught up in a program. About an hour later as I was lying there, one of the Silver Sensors fell off the high book shelf it was on. Since it was stacked with another one, it was just dangling there, and the other antenna flipped on its side, still at the top of the book shelf. So, for kicks, I ran through the channels - and I get them ALL, perfectly. So do I leave these things hanging off the side of my book shelf forever? Perfect HD takes priority over "the look" of my apartment anyday.*



A good story that shows that reception is more art than science. Dan


----------



## RZ

Sorry to interupt this thread.....


****A moment of silence to those brave souls who lost their lives on September 11th while working at their NYC tower stations so that we would have better reception.****


"B'casters Hall honors 9/11 techs"

By DAVID HINCKLEY DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER


The New York State Broadcasters Association sounded a note of poignancy last night as it announced the first 29 inductees to its Hall of Fame.


Alongside broadcast giants like Walter Cronkite and CBS founder William S. Paley, the association inducted six men it calls the "9/11 Engineers," television engineers killed while working at their tower stations in the World Trade Center on Sept. 11.


They are Steven Jacobsen of WPIX/Ch. 11, William Steckman of WNBC/Ch. 4, Gerard (Rod) Coppola of WNET/Ch. 13, Isaias Rivera and Bob Pattison of WCBS/Ch. 2 and Donald DiFranco of WABC/Ch. 7.


----------



## HoundBaby

It seems that channel 4 signal is not as strong the past week . The signal is 4 bars on my Samsung 451 With break ups. Has anybody else having this problem. All the other station from the ESB are strong and steady.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Swisher_
> *I've been struggling with my Silver Sensor for months. Able to get most channels, but always missing one or two because of multipathing. So the other night I tried stacking two Silver Sensors to try to reduce multipath. It helped increase reception to most, but I still lost others. I tried a lot of different angles before I finally gave up and got caught up in a program. About an hour later as I was lying there, one of the Silver Sensors fell off the high book shelf it was on. Since it was stacked with another one, it was just dangling there, and the other antenna flipped on its side, still at the top of the book shelf. So, for kicks, I ran through the channels - and I get them ALL, perfectly. So do I leave these things hanging off the side of my book shelf forever? Perfect HD takes priority over "the look" of my apartment anyday.*



I am constantly moving my SS. One day they are all good then the next day, one or two are flakey.


----------



## Phil Hightech

I've had strange multi-path issues with CBS since the beginning. Basically when it rains the CBS signal goes from a solid 100 to a fluctuating unusable mess. I've posted this condition awhile back and others have mentioned similar problems.

I've tried a VHF/UHF combo and a RS corner reflector and they reacted identically. I recently installed a Wineguard SS-1000 (same mast, same height, same coax) and with todays rain I am now claiming success! The WCBS Signal is rock solid. I believe the SS-1000 is circularly polarized so it reacts differently to multi-path. Also, analog UHF stations show less ghosting than with the other conventional antennas. FYI

-Phil


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HoundBaby_
> *It seems that channel 4 signal is not as strong the past week . The signal is 4 bars on my Samsung 451 With break ups. Has anybody else having this problem. All the other station from the ESB are strong and steady.*



Yes,


NBC-DT has been weaker for me (high 50s at best) over the last few days but UPN-DT has been much worse.


It was only about 2 weeks ago that NBC-DT became reliable for me. (mid 60s) I wonder if they are still tweaking.


UPN has been breaking up all week, with dramatic drop offs from the 50's.


I usually get that in the 70s but I find that it gets much worse during the weekends. (I have seen this many weekends in a row, not even talking about today) Do they cut power on the weekend?


For the record, I still can't see video on Channel 33 for PIX but at 12 it's in the 60's.


FOX, ABC and CBS are all in the 70's to 80s.


----------



## HoundBaby

Just checked NBC 4.1 still at 40% with Breakups. It was at 70%/ 80% a week ago with no problems. Just checked WPAX 31.1 it is back up. at 70 % with no breakups. All the other channels from the the ESB combiner 2.1,7.1,9.1,11.1 have no problems. All reading 10 bars or 100% on my Samsung 451 receiver. There must be something up with 4.1.


----------



## beatles6

I thought Star Trek Enterprise was an HD broadcast? Watching on UPN HD and it is in SD.


----------



## shappyss

the repeats on sunday are not in HD


----------



## mondesign

Has anyone else seen audio lip sync problems with Ch 21.2? I first noticed it on Friday and it seems to have continued all weekend. The 21.3 subchannel seems to be fine, so I dont think it is my receiver.


----------



## Swisher

Why is that, I wonder? Are the repeats not a national feed, so local UPN doesn't have the tape/equipment to play it back in HD? Is it more expensive in some way to broadcast HD and not worth it for a repeat?


----------



## John Mason

Anyone gotten through to CBS to see if they'll switch here from standard Thur-Fri afternoon programs to the 1080i (true-HD) CBS network feed of the Masters? I've called, left e-mails, but haven't heard. -- John


----------



## ykavs

I have a Samsung SIR-T165 STB. It has the latest version of firmware (134?). Tonight when I tried to tune in 5-1 or 9-1, the STB would lock up and I had to disconnect the antenna to change to other channels. When it locked up, there was a glimpse of video and sometimes the audio turned into "echo." The SD co-channel 5-2 and 9-2 worked fine. Other channels including 2-1, 4-1, 7-1, 50-5 all worked fine so I don't think the STB has a problem to display HD. Both 5-1 and 9-1 worked fine until tonight.


I am also having problem with 25-2 and 25-3. There used to be only one digital channel 24-1 from WNYE but it became two subchannels a few weeks ago. The STB displays "Stereo Sound" on the screen but not video. There is actually no sound when I turn the volume up. At least 25-2 won't lock up the STB but 25-3 will.


Is this only a SIR-T165 problem? I just did a rescan and it didn't help.


----------



## acebreathe

Ykavs I had the same problem with my T 165. Slow to start up too. Had echo on 5-1, I turned it off and then back on and the echo went away. I didn't have any problems recording 24. I haven't tried channels 25-2 or 25-3, but 9-1 relocated to 5-2 the last time I did a scan.


----------



## ykavs

acebreathe, thank you for the information. 5-2 is SD version of 9-1 (UPN).


5-1 and 9-1 are back to normal tonight. The problem for 25-2 and 25-3 (channel 24) is still there.


By any chance, does anyone know what was different in the signals for 5-1 and 9-1 last night?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ykavs_
> *5-1 and 9-1 are back to normal tonight.
> 
> 
> By any chance, does anyone know what was different in the signals for 5-1 and 9-1 last night?*



I don't know about the signal levels but the audio on Veronica Mars was choppy once again.


----------



## trekkerj

Yes, the sure were. I emailed WWOR about that, but haven't heard back. I hope Enterprise isn't like this next week. Only a few more of those to go, they could at least have good audio. Luckily the delay introduced by my TiVo matches the OTA broadcast delay almost, so I was able to use an alternate audio source and maintain decent lip sync.


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

The audio is still choppy during "Veronica Mars" on UPN. This is the third week in a row.


----------



## trekkerj

beat me to it. I emailed upn9.


----------



## monetnj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *beat me to it. I emailed upn9.*



So did I. The more corroborating emails they have, hopefully, the more likely they will look into it. Just for the sake of comparison with those having similar issues, I am viewing Veronica Mars on my HD Tivo and listening to it via my Yamaha RX-V795. Don't know if it is supposed to be broadcast in Dolby Digital, but the Yamaha indicates Dolby Pro Logic.


----------



## monetnj




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by monetnj_
> *So did I. The more corroborating emails they have, hopefully, the more likely they will look into it. Just for the sake of comparison with those having similar issues, I am viewing Veronica Mars on my HD Tivo and listening to it via my Yamaha RX-V795. Don't know if it is supposed to be broadcast in Dolby Digital, but the Yamaha indicates Dolby Pro Logic.*



Got back an email from UPN 9 this morning. Hopefully this issue will get resolved:


--

Thank you for your recent email. We appreciate that you have taken the

time to write to us and notify us with your concerns regarding our

transmission. We have forwarded your concerns to the appropriate

personnel and begun checking our feeds. Thanks again for contacting

us.




Sincerely,

Viewer Services


----------



## trekkerj

Here's my response:

Thank you for notifying us of your concerns. We will pass along your

information to the proper personnel and if necessary check with our

distributor. Thanks again for your contacting us.




Sincerely,



Viewer Services






Maybe this will be taken care of. The only shows on UPN I watch are Veronica Mars and Enterprise. I don't know if it's just been Veronica Mars with the problem, as Enterprise has been in repeats until this Friday, so we'll see.


----------



## michaelk

can you guys post the email you use for UPN? The one I try on their website gets bounced by a fox server someplace.


I want to email them to ask that they carry the Yankees in HD now that the Yes network does.


----------



## trekkerj

I just go to upn9.com, hit "contact us" at the top of the page, and use the 'programming' email link.


----------



## michaelk

that's what i tried last week but it got bounced- i guess maybe i was just lucky...


let me try again...


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by trekkerj_
> *beat me to it. I emailed upn9.*



Me too. I got this back:


Thank you for your recent email. We have received several complaints regarding this and are investigating the problem. Thanks again for notifying us with your concerns.


----------



## icemannyr

Are the WPIX home games in HD?


I can't get strong enough signal for WPIX-DT OTA to check it my self.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *Are the WPIX home games in HD?
> 
> 
> I can't get strong enough signal for WPIX-DT OTA to check it my self.*



Yes, it's in HD.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by icemannyr_
> *Are the WPIX home games in HD?
> 
> 
> I can't get strong enough signal for WPIX-DT OTA to check it my self.*



Yes and they looked very sharp. Too bad they don't carry most of the home games. They have to share it with MSG and FSN's Cablevision channels


----------



## sabt

Newbie here in bayside, queens 11 miles from empire state building...


want to buy that sanyo 32" and was wondering if i'll have problems getting ota hdtv with a zenith zhdtv1hdtv/uhf antenna. here's the catch:


my apt faces north, ie., i can't see the empire state building. will i get hdtv reception? right now on my 19" analog tv, i get mediocre analog reception with rabbit ears so i use my apt's time warner cable line w/o a stb to get the local channels, at no charge of course.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *Yes and they looked very sharp. Too bad they don't carry most of the home games. They have to share it with MSG and FSN's Cablevision channels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Ahhhh....damn! I forgot they were on Ch.11 today. IIRC, they are on again tomorrow as well.


Seeing them in HD will be a first as (like most of the area) it's my first MLB season with 11-1.


----------



## dan57

I caught a bit of the Mets game on PIX-HD. Looked good. I couldn't see much difference from what I am seeing on YES-HD on Directv for the Yanks.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dan57_
> *I caught a bit of the Mets game on PIX-HD. Looked good. I couldn't see much difference from what I am seeing on YES-HD on Directv for the Yanks.*



Yeah, with all the Directv PQ bashing threads I thought the OTA Mets games would be better than the YESHD games. They look the same to me.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Yeah, with all the Directv PQ bashing threads I thought the OTA Mets games would be better than the YESHD games. They look the same to me.*



Keep in mind, WPIX is multicasting on 11-2 as well. Not sure if it's totally separate feed or just a different audio feed with the same video feed since right now 11-2 is also broadcasting the game in HD but in Spanish.


However, I agree with you. D*'s PQ is not that bad like other people may think.


----------



## muadib




> Quote:
> However, I agree with you. D*'s PQ is not that bad like other people may think.



I find the Directv PQ to be exactly the same as OTA. Are we blind, or do the others have dish issues?


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sabt_
> *Newbie here in bayside, queens 11 miles from empire state building...
> 
> 
> want to buy that sanyo 32" and was wondering if i'll have problems getting ota hdtv with a zenith zhdtv1hdtv/uhf antenna. here's the catch:
> 
> 
> my apt faces north, ie., i can't see the empire state building. will i get hdtv reception? right now on my 19" analog tv, i get mediocre analog reception with rabbit ears so i use my apt's time warner cable line w/o a stb to get the local channels, at no charge of course.*



hi sabt


i'm afraid all i can suggest is give it a try & see if it works. does the Sanyo TV you mention have a built-in ATSC tuner? if not you'll need an outboard tuner @$2-300.

i CAN tell you that the Silver Sensor is VERY good indoor antenna-its worth a try. make sure you can return it if it doesn't work.

if you have the $'s you might consider an HDTV with ATSC & QAM digital tuners. then your TWC cable drop will give you all the UNscrambled digital cable chs. as of now that includes(i think) the big 4 networks(no WB or UPN yet) plus PBS, Disc HD & TNT-HD. good luck with what you choose!!


jim


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Yeah, with all the Directv PQ bashing threads I thought the OTA Mets games would be better than the YESHD games. They look the same to me.*



I thought the same thing as I looked at the grass at Shea (didn't say to myself, "Wow, I can see individual blades!") as well as the crowd in the background (they didn't look "clear")


For my money, I STILL haven't found comparable PQ to the HDNET College baseball games I saw in 2003....though I do wish I was able to see the MLB games that were on HDNET back in 2002


----------



## sabt




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDntheCity_
> *hi sabt
> 
> 
> i'm afraid all i can suggest is give it a try & see if it works. does the Sanyo TV you mention have a built-in ATSC tuner? if not you'll need an outboard tuner @$2-300.
> 
> i CAN tell you that the Silver Sensor is VERY good indoor antenna-its worth a try. make sure you can return it if it doesn't work.
> 
> if you have the $'s you might consider an HDTV with ATSC & QAM digital tuners. then your TWC cable drop will give you all the UNscrambled digital cable chs. as of now that includes(i think) the big 4 networks(no WB or UPN yet) plus PBS, Disc HD & TNT-HD. good luck with what you choose!!
> 
> 
> jim*



thx jim. The sanyo does have an atsc tuner. originally i was using a regular antenna that came with an older tv. I was getting HD in cbs, abc, fox, and wb. when i was watching cold case (cbs) and jack&bobby (wb), i wasn't impressed with the HD. I thought something was wrong cause it didn't look like HD, just regular dtv; I guess that's how it is on a 32" tv.


then i tried the cable line and i got all the channels in HD plus pbs and discovery. discovery hd and pbs is amazing...now that's HD!!!! the hd for the major networks suck...


is the HD pic quality from the cable different than OTA??? i couldn't tell the difference with the networks...


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sabt_
> *the hd for the major networks suck...
> 
> .*



You must watch


American Idol

LOST

Desperate Housewives

CSI:Miami


Then come back and talk about HD.


----------



## sabt




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PDPnNJ_
> *You must watch
> 
> 
> American Idol
> 
> LOST
> 
> Desperate Housewives
> 
> CSI:Miami
> 
> 
> Then come back and talk about HD.*



I saw Idol...not bad HD; not great either...haven't seen the others but overall, network HD is no comparison to Discovery or PBS...that's a shame...


Also, NBC says, through various HD tv listings, they have their primetime programming in HD...i'm not getting the HD they are promising...(Las Vegas on Monday was not HD, contrary to what was listed in HDTVgalaxy.com)


----------



## Unoriginal Nick

The stuttering audio was still around during "Veronica Mars" again.


----------



## Maggot

Please, anyone with an update of their own efforts at receiving PBS in HD or an update on the state of preparations to broadcast PBS in HD around the metro area -- Please do post up whatever meager bits of news or comment you've come across this past month!

There have been no WNET- HD updates from any members these 4 weeks (and certainly not any official word - their record remains unblemished on that count, even as their appeals for member support ring out - all in 480i natch).


Thanks guys!


----------



## mikeny

PBS HD from NJN was coming in stronger than usual yesterday at Freq 8 (58-5) and Freq 51 (52-5, I think). Did they boost the signal? Stength was in the mid 60s. It normally cracks the 50s every few minutes which gives a nice pixelated frozen screen.


Last night it was clear and steady though in the 60s..


----------



## mister_two

I am in Secaucus, NJ. What, and where, is a good antenna to get to pick up OTA HD stations? I can see most of midtown manhattan from my window. There are a few trees in the way but for the most part I can see midtown fine.


----------



## Steve L

My OTA HD-Tivo recording of last night's "House" on Fox mysteriously ended after only 46 minutes. Wondering if I've got a Tivo problem, or if there was a transmission problem with FOX-HD last night?


I'm in Westchester county, about 20 miles NE of the ESB. My Fox signal strength is usually 90-92 out of 100.


Anyone else experience anything similar?


/steve


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by muadib_
> *I find the Directv PQ to be exactly the same as OTA. Are we blind, or do the others have dish issues?*



I think it depends on what your display resolution and viewing distance is. On my 50" plasma at about 10 feet, OTA signals are definitely sharper than their D* equivalents, but not so much so that I'd be unhappy if I could no longer receive OTA.


D* is apparently doing a much better job of not "overcompressing" these signals than in the past. 6 months ago, the difference was much more obvious, in my opinion.


/steve


----------



## michaelk

anyone know if channel-9 will be doing their Yankee games in HD? They dont bother to reply to any of hte emails i've sent


NYC pre combiner was farily worthless to me, I had intended to aim around back at NY when the combiner got done. But with the lack of PBS in high power on the combiner, I am perfectely content with aiming my antenna at philly and getting D*'s big 4 NY from the sat, but if channel 9 is actually going to do the games in HD, maybe i need to go upstairs and aim back towards new york.


----------



## mikeny

Can't get NJN again. Last night must have been an atmospheric anomaly when it was coming in.


----------



## HoundBaby

Whats with 31.1 PAX


----------



## jaypb

I can't be the only one tuning in for Revelations at 9pm can I be???










Once again.....no HD on 4-1....or at least not from the get-go....amazing!










Edit: It went to a commercial....at 9:11 (eerie) and when it came back at 9:14 it was in HD.


----------



## Chriš2

Anyone else having reception issues with FOX (WNYW) tonight? It may just be atmospheric, but FOX is usually one of my strongest signals. Tonight I was getting major breakups.


----------



## acebreathe




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sluciani_
> *My OTA HD-Tivo recording of last night's "House" on Fox mysteriously ended after only 46 minutes. Wondering if I've got a Tivo problem, or if there was a transmission problem with FOX-HD last night?
> 
> 
> I'm in Westchester county, about 20 miles NE of the ESB. My Fox signal strength is usually 90-92 out of 100.
> 
> 
> Anyone else experience anything similar?
> 
> 
> /steve*



Had no problem recording House Tuesday night, but I'm not using a tivo. The transmission was fine so you may have a tivo problem.


----------



## shappyss

my hd tivo worked fine for house.


same problem with revelations, it goes to HD after first commercial. Its kind of annoying and it is the second time they did it wrong


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by shappyss_
> *same problem with revelations, it goes to HD after first commercial. Its kind of annoying and it is the second time they did it wrong*



NBC has had this happen a few times with ER and Las Vegas as well. I guess flipping a switch at the correct time is a little beyond their ability


----------



## dm145

Did not catch the game but I am guessing no Yankees in HD on 9-1 last night?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dm145_
> *Did not catch the game but I am guessing no Yankees in HD on 9-1 last night?*



Nope! Considering the Mets are available in HD on PIX and we know there are HD cameras at Yankee Stadium you'd think this would be a no brainer.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Nope! Considering the Mets are available in HD on PIX and we know there are HD cameras at Yankee Stadium you'd think this would be a no brainer.*



Considering it is on UPN it does not surprise me. They also do not broadcast the repeats of Enterprise in HD over the weekends which makes no sense.


----------



## HDugan

Pardon my intrusion with this post. I am an occasional poster and NOT a spammer. (Search my name and see)

I'll post this only once with the hope it won't get deleted. If somebody needs this, this price is REALLY doing them a favor.


I'm moving from NE NJ to NW NJ...house to townhouse. I need to get rid an antenna tower kinda soon.


I'm selling a 30' aluminum tower for $200 ~~~~~CHEAP~~~~~


It is in (3) 10' sections (M-13) (retail: $232.95 ea plus shipping)

It has a center tower mount to lock in a mast (CM-1300).(retail: $33.95 plus shipping)

It also has a hinged base system. (HB-13) (retail: $171.95 plus shipping)


Missing is the CHB-13 Footing Assembly which I had to leave at my old residence because it was sunk in concrete. Glen Martin has a website and it can be purchased there. I also provided the link to demonstate the bargain price I am offering this thing for.


You pickup. I'm in Little Falls, NJ.

It should fit into a pickup truck just fine.

Tower was shipped to me on a crate. I don't want to go through that trouble to ship it out. I'm TOO busy prepping my house for sale.


This thing assembles pretty easy. Once the tower is together and wired, you basically walk it into it's upright position and screw on some big bolts to the hinge plate. I also have the bolts and washers.


Note: This tower got slightly damaged when I first received it. Apparently the fork of a lift truck banged into a could of cross sections. I removed some and replaced some. Tower is okay...see pic.



Tower was initially purchased at...
http://www.glenmartin.com/catalog/page7.html 


I can be contacted the quickest at
[email protected] 


I'm leaving my OTA NYC local signals too.







Allamuchy, where I'm going, has no OTA receptions at all.


Now I have to decide between Cablevision and DIrecTV for HDTV locals for my new location. DirecTV I'm familiar with. Where I I get good feedback about Cablevision's general HDTV delivery and quaility??????


----------



## Ken H

Hi Harry.


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by HDugan_
> *Where I I get good feedback about Cablevision's general HDTV delivery and quaility??????*


 Cablevision's Yahoo Group


----------



## acebreathe

It's not surprising UPN did not broadcast Yanks in HD despite the fact that there are HD cameras in place. After all CBS took the same tact last year when they broadcast the games. Anyone know why CBS does not rebroadcast their CSI weekends in HD? Is it a syndication issue?


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by acebreathe_
> *Anyone know why CBS does not rebroadcast their CSI weekends in HD? Is it a syndication issue?*



Just a guess. They don't have qualified personnel to flip the switch ?


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe you're talking about the "CSI" broadcasts that play late night on WCBS-TV.


Those telecasts are syndicated buys and have nothing to do with the primetime broadcasts on the CBS Television Network.


Although the facilities for the local, owned station, WCBS-TV and the feed headquarters for the CBS Television Network are both under the same roof on West 57th Street in Manhattan, they are two separate entities.


Unfortunately, just because the network can originate "CSI" in HD has nothing to do with Channel 2.


Hope this helps.


Gary


----------



## jaypb

Just tuned in to 11-1 (Sunday) at 1:30 and it's not in HD. Was yesterday's WB game in HD???


----------



## HoundBaby

There must of been a problem the Mets are in HD now.


----------



## acebreathe

Thanks for the info Gary. I thought it was a syndication issue but I had hoped that maybe the digital feed from DT56 would be HD.


----------



## LINDELLTOM

JAYPB, the Mets were in HD, Channel 11 to day Sunday.


----------



## johnnyhd

Sunday's Met's game was in HD as was Saturday's. However. right before Piazza hit the 3 run scoring double, it had switched to SD. It switched back to HD shortly after. Might have been SD for 10 minutes...... Would have been nice to see the double, the only good Met highlight for the day in HD.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by johnnyhd_
> *Sunday's Met's game was in HD as was Saturday's. However. right before Piazza hit the 3 run scoring double, it had switched to SD. It switched back to HD shortly after. Might have been SD for 10 minutes...... Would have been nice to see the double, the only good Met highlight for the day in HD.*



Thanks. This would've been around the time I tuned in. When I *thought* it wasn't in HD I went outside for the rest of the day.


----------



## trekkerj

Was the Enterprise alternate showing on Saturday in HD?


----------



## vinnyv07

No...actually I tuned in on Sat night thinking it was friday night and no HD. It took a while but I realized that it was Sat night. I cant understand why Enterprise is only in HD in NY on Friday nights.


----------



## michaelk

the same thing from the UPN in philly.


I dont understand it.


Do they send tapes to the affiliates or to they stream it live at the time? If its live maybe they are too cheap to pay for the extra satellite space to send it HD for hte alternate showings? Just aguess.


----------



## johnnyhd

Very disappointing.....The only showing of the last few episodes of Enterprise in HD pre-empted by the Yankees in SD. They could at least give us the re-run of Enterprise on Saturday in HD to make up for it. So, with UPN going HD just in January and now the final episodes be pre-empted each week by the SD Yankees, we've actually had very little Enterprise in HD in NY.


----------



## michaelk

are you in NJ? Philly's UPN has a very good signal. Other then that, i dont know what to suggest. Sorry.


----------



## trekkerj

At least the finale will not be preempted, but I would have loved to see last weeks and this weeks mirror universe episode in HD. I'm sure they will be released on HD-DVD in a couple of years.


----------



## trekkerj

Congratulations to UPN9 for fixing the Veronica Mars audio after only a month and a half.


----------



## mw390

Is 5-1 and 5-2 off the air? And last night too?


----------



## mad6c

Coming in fine here, Spider-Man in HD is on now.


Mike


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else notice weird screen issues at the beginning of Harry Potter on 7-1?? Top 1/2 of the screen was black with green "x"s or "+" signs. Never saw that before.....


----------



## TVjazzman

I've finally come to realize that my 5-1 and 5-2 are also down and my formerly high numbers (65-70) are down to 42- 48 which is too low to get proper (or any) reception.


Fear that I'm starting to encounter UHF attenuation from the coming of Spring.


Anyone aware if Fox ever came up to full transmission power that was threatened for the Super Bowl but never happened?


----------



## MLM

For the last several days I've been receiving New Jersey Public Television on Channel 50 here in NE Queens. 5 bars on my Samsung receiver. The HDTV programs are really beautiful. Months ago I got it in the same way; then it disappeared.


Does anyone know if this is a seasonal climate thing, or have they boosted their power?


Especially until WNET goes on the air this is a nice thing to have. Any news about them, by the way?


Mel


----------



## ykavs

I also received a station, WLNY on Channel 57, I never received before last Thursday. It may have something to do with the good weather we got that night though. I have not received the signal since.


Incidentally, WNJN on Channel 51 used to be mapped to 50-1 to 50-5, I got a 50-6 channel since last week but my Samsung T-165 always report there is no "AV" signal on 50-6.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TVjazzman_
> *I've finally come to realize that my 5-1 and 5-2 are also down and my formerly high numbers (65-70) are down to 42- 48 which is too low to get proper (or any) reception.
> 
> 
> Fear that I'm starting to encounter UHF attenuation from the coming of Spring.
> 
> 
> Anyone aware if Fox ever came up to full transmission power that was threatened for the Super Bowl but never happened?*



WNYW-DT is not as of yet at full power. Engineers are working on it.


I've heard no date mentioned for the ramp up.


Gary Press


----------



## TVjazzman

Thanks for the update, thin k I have to go a noch higher on the antenna, usung an 8 bow with a winegard preamp rated for 45 mile, I'm 35 miles and having problems.


Anyone recommend an antenna rate 50-75+ for DTV reception. In this wonderful OTA world, and with probable UHF attenuation from trees this Spring my reception is completely flipped. Once had great CBS, no NBC, great fox, great ABC strong WOR and WPIX. NOW, all those once strong are no barely available and NBC is my strongest signal with WPIX right up there.


This is since the end of Winter and beginning of Srping... BAsically in the last 4-6 weeks...


Any advice for an antenna??


----------



## rlindabury




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ykavs_
> *I also received a station, WLNY on Channel 57, I never received before last Thursday. It may have something to do with the good weather we got that night though. I have not received the signal since.
> 
> 
> Incidentally, WNJN on Channel 51 used to be mapped to 50-1 to 50-5, I got a 50-6 channel since last week but my Samsung T-165 always report there is no "AV" signal on 50-6.*



The -6 subchannel is a channel setup to send out a specific program to a NJN customer. It's not PBS programming nor is it anything of general interest to most viewers.


It in testing phase now. There is nothing being programmed on that channel for general consumption.


----------



## aerosnow88

I apologize, I am a newbie and I did not go through all 240 pages of posts.


Can someone suggest an indoor antena for HDTV OTA reception. I am in Maspeth QUeens. Since I am in the city, will any HDTV antena do the job?


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aerosnow88_
> *I apologize, I am a newbie and I did not go through all 240 pages of posts.
> 
> 
> Can someone suggest an indoor antena for HDTV OTA reception. I am in Maspeth QUeens. Since I am in the city, will any HDTV antena do the job?*



The Zenith (or Gemini) Silver Sensor is a hands-down favorite. It's cheap, and it works.


----------



## POWERFUL

I'm out here in Commack on LI and the Silver Sensor works for me. I just don't get NBC or the WB in HD but that's fine as I don't watch alot of those networks to begin with.


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *WNYW-DT is not as of yet at full power. Engineers are working on it.
> 
> 
> I've heard no date mentioned for the ramp up.
> 
> 
> Gary Press*



Wow I had no idea. What about NBC, ABC, UPN (WOR) and WB (WPIX). Are they at full power or still in a test mode?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Quiring_
> *Wow I had no idea. What about NBC, ABC, UPN (WOR) and WB (WPIX). Are they at full power or still in a test mode?*



All of the stations currently on the Combiner have been running at full power. We all await WNET-DT to finally become a part of the Combiner Project.


There's been no word about when!


Gary Press


----------



## POWERFUL

Wait I thought NBC DT was not at Full power on the Combiner. Was I misled?


----------



## skyhawk223

Frustrating. I have a fairly large RCA antenna in my attic (2 story house) and get CBS fine, but nothing else from Syosset. If someone in Commack can get most channels with a SS, I should be able to get all with my attic antenna. Oh well. I've given up.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by POWERFUL_
> *Wait I thought NBC DT was not at Full power on the Combiner. Was I misled?*



You have been misled!


According to George Thompson, as of 2/17/05, WNBC-DT has been transmitting at full power - 200KW ERP using an omnidirectional pattern

from the Combiner atop the ESB.


Gary


----------



## POWERFUL

skyhawk223 try the Silver Sensor. I picked one up at Sears, before I used that I got what you were getting, after getting the Silver Sensor do a full channel scan and you should get what I'm getting.


----------



## RichYak




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Press_
> *You have been misled!
> 
> 
> According to George Thompson, as of 2/17/05, WNBC-DT has been transmitting at full power - 200KW ERP using an omnidirectional pattern
> 
> from the Combiner atop the ESB.*



Omnidirectional except at my house.


----------



## HoundBaby

I have the same problem with NBC. On all the other station's from the combinder I get a signal of 10 on my Samsung 451. With NBC 4.1 and 4.2, I get 4 or 5 bars with a lot of break ups. It must be a NJ problem. Or they are not at full power.


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by skyhawk223_
> *Frustrating. I have a fairly large RCA antenna in my attic (2 story house) and get CBS fine, but nothing else from Syosset. If someone in Commack can get most channels with a SS, I should be able to get all with my attic antenna. Oh well. I've given up.*



I feel your pain!!!!!


I am in Brooklyn 10 miles away from the combiner and I have only gotten WPIX once (when they turned it on for the wizard of Oz I got PIX with no problem nearly 80%) since then not a peep. I have a squareshooter on my roof and all the other channels are 80% or better but for some reason WPIX is a no show... talk about frustrating. I had a Radioshack double bay hanging in a window on the first floor and got nearly the same reception I do now with the roof mounted squareshooter. Frustrating? Yes!!!!


----------



## skyhawk223

I tried the SS. No luck.

Anthony, at least you get the rest of the channels. I'm stuck with CBS, of which I watch zero programs.


----------



## CountryJoe

skhawk223, There are a lot of things that can interfere with recpetion in an attic. Anything metal is a killer. this would include foil backed insulation on the walls. I have an A/C trunk in my attic directly in line with the antenna direction. All of the other factors that have to be contended with also come into play. That said, I am in East Northport, and receiving all stations perfectly. No drops, no interference. I have a roof mounted uni-directional antenna.


2 cents - I don't agree with all this trial and error stuff. There is a very small difference in cost between the indoor antennas and an outdoor antenna. My thinking is to go with the setup that is most likely to be successful and cause the least amount of aggravation.


----------



## POWERFUL

Joe, I don't appreciate pot shots directed at me, for as I told you in the LI thread I don't feel its wise for someone who plans on moving to a different locale to spend money and time on an elaborate setup. If I'm OK with what I get then let me be that way and not knock what I'm suggesting.


Skyhawk223, did you move the antenna to different locations in your room/ house? Or how about putting the antenna in a different location in the attic like Joe here suggested. I find that the higher you are the more likely you are to encounter more digital channels. You said your in the attic of a two story house, are there tall trees or buildings near you? Any of those can and will effect your ability to receive the digital channels. One last question what is your experience with an antenna before HDTV?


----------



## CountryJoe

First of all, I was not taking a pot shot at you. That is not my style. If I have a problem with someone I address it straight on. The comment was not directed at you in any way. My comment was addressed to the situation in a very general way. People end up spending a lot more in time and aggravation just trying things out. Try to not be so sensitive. No harm meant.


----------



## ziggy60

Another newb here (staten island). So from what I read the Zenith sensor does the trick. Does this mean I have to put it in the attic if I live in a 2 story? And where do I buy this locally in case I have to return it. Also can someone please elaborate on getting the unscrambled cable channels from a cable line? I've got a tv with a built in ATSC tuner.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ziggy60_
> *Another newb here (staten island). So from what I read the Zenith sensor does the trick. Does this mean I have to put it in the attic if I live in a 2 story? And where do I buy this locally in case I have to return it. Also can someone please elaborate on getting the unscrambled cable channels from a cable line? I've got a tv with a built in ATSC tuner.*



As a general rule of thumb, higher is better. The benefits may be offset by metal in the attic, excessive line runs, etc...


Start close to the set, see what you get, then try a temporary line run to the attic and compare.


Individual results will vary.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ziggy60_
> *Another newb here (staten island). So from what I read the Zenith sensor does the trick. Does this mean I have to put it in the attic if I live in a 2 story? And where do I buy this locally in case I have to return it. Also can someone please elaborate on getting the unscrambled cable channels from a cable line? I've got a tv with a built in ATSC tuner.*



hi ziggy


as far as UNscrambled digital cable chs. go your TV needs a QAM digital tuner. ATSC tuners, in general, are for over-the-air(OTA) digital chs. the trend seems to be for new HDTVs to have both. your TV's owners manual should tell you. if the tuner is QAM capable just attach the cable drop & run a ch. scan. keep in mind the ch. #'s will not be the same as Time-Warners(i assume that's your cable co.) ch. #'s. good luck with it.


jim


----------



## ziggy60

Thanks for the help. So I got a Terk HDTVi from BB and I'm getting a signal in the 80's on some channels and 70's on others. Is that what I should expect now? The PQ was good but not stunning. My TV (Sharp Aquos 37) didnt display the signal (1080i, 720p). Then I tuned to 50.5 and finally saw a stunning picture. Not sure what ch. that was.


----------



## aerosnow88

another newbie question.


If I get the antenna that snaps on top of the DTV Satellite, will that receive the OTA HDTV channels?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ziggy60_
> *Thanks for the help. So I got a Terk HDTVi from BB and I'm getting a signal in the 80's on some channels and 70's on others. Is that what I should expect now? The PQ was good but not stunning. My TV (Sharp Aquos 37) didnt display the signal (1080i, 720p). Then I tuned to 50.5 and finally saw a stunning picture. Not sure what ch. that was.*



50-5 is PBS out of NJ (Montclair ?!?!). It's the HD subchannel for the Montclair NJN station (50:1-4 are the other subchannels showing non HD material).


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by aerosnow88_
> *another newbie question.
> 
> 
> If I get the antenna that snaps on top of the DTV Satellite, will that receive the OTA HDTV channels?*



It depends on about 4,254 other variables such as:


Where you are located.

How high about Sea Level you are.

What kind of receiver you are using.

How many trees/obstructions are in your area.


Etc..., etc...., etc...


Conventional wisdom around these parts is that the snap on antennas are garbage. But, they have worked for some....but I'd gather those folks are *close* to the signal source with no other issues to worry about.


----------



## aerosnow88

I'm in maspeth Queens, i would say fairly close to the source (assuming empire state building?)


Has anyone else been successful with this?


Just trying alternatives as the Zenith silver sensor aint working in th apartment I'm in.


Thanks


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ziggy60_
> *Thanks for the help. So I got a Terk HDTVi from BB and I'm getting a signal in the 80's on some channels and 70's on others. Is that what I should expect now? The PQ was good but not stunning. My TV (Sharp Aquos 37) didnt display the signal (1080i, 720p). Then I tuned to 50.5 and finally saw a stunning picture. Not sure what ch. that was.*



What channels had the 80s and 70s? It sounds like they may have been analog channels since they did not indicate the video resolution. Depending on where you are on S.I. you may need more or less antenna.


----------



## ziggy60




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by netman_
> *What channels had the 80s and 70s? It sounds like they may have been analog channels since they did not indicate the video resolution. Depending on where you are on S.I. you may need more or less antenna.*



Oh they are digital alright, but the Sharp only displays "digital" and the sound (stereo, surround, etc). I also noticed an improvement in the signal once I moved the antenna closer to the window. All channels looked good regardless of the signal tho.


----------



## POWERFUL

Of course ur on SI and I'm out in the sticks on LI so the TERK/ SS wannabe will work for you. I just want the SS to pick up WPIX Friday so the Yanks/Mets game will be in HD. For those Mets fans not in the know WWOR does not broadcast the Yankees games in HD, but of course YES does. WPIX doesn't seem to be in the UHF spec and that is a reason if any to find a good VHF antenna. Would anyone recommend the TV2 from TERK? I heard it has the longest dipoles of any VHF antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

WPIX-DT, in addition to VHF channel 12, the station transmits on UHF channel 33.


Gary


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by POWERFUL_
> *Of course ur on SI and I'm out in the sticks on LI so the TERK/ SS wannabe will work for you. I just want the SS to pick up WPIX Friday so the Yanks/Mets game will be in HD. For those Mets fans not in the know WWOR does not broadcast the Yankees games in HD, but of course YES does. WPIX doesn't seem to be in the UHF spec and that is a reason if any to find a good VHF antenna. Would anyone recommend the TV2 from TERK? I heard it has the longest dipoles of any VHF antenna.*



aww, put up a real antenna an' quite yer whinin'


----------



## MLM

Long Islanders, if you're having trouble and can't receive everything from the combiner I suggest that you visit LNL in Syosset. Based on your location they usually know exactly what you need--and in my case it was less expensive than what I thought I needed.


LNL is at 235 Robbins Lane - Syosset, NY 11791, 516-681-7270. No connection except as customer.


----------



## POWERFUL

I have a RS 15-1718 (A) antenna that has been sitting in the garage for some time now. Could that work? It says on the side of the box "Radio Shack Archer Long Range Super Color Special", and I want to know if any one in this forum thinks its a good idea to try this antenna in my attic? The RS website says its rated for 120 miles.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by POWERFUL_
> *I have a RS 15-1718 (A) antenna that has been sitting in the garage for some time now. Could that work? It says on the side of the box "Radio Shack Archer Long Range Super Color Special", and I want to know if any one in this forum thinks its a good idea to try this antenna in my attic? The RS website says its rated for 120 miles.*



Antenna distance ratings are usually pretty silly but 120 would indicate they consider it a "fringe" antenna. If it does UHF you can't loose anything by trying it. Of course, if I were you I would put it out on the roof and get the extra performance but you should at least try it somewhere. If it does not do UHF, don't bother however.


edit: I looked it up and see it does UHF. What I would do is buy a cheap rotor and put that thing up on the roof. The rotor is well worth the expense in time saved setting the direction even if you never move it after the first setting.


----------



## dturturro

Wow, here's some bad (if not unexpected) news about WNET-DT:


Dear Mr. Turturro,


Thank you for your letter. I believe that we hope to have HD up and running throughout the area by the end of 2005.


Sincerely,


Terry Hickerson

Thirteen Member and Viewer Relations

(212) 560-2888


----------



## Infominister

What was the question and what exactly did they mean by "running throughout the area" by the end of 2005? Does that mean OTA, when they join the combiner, or that another cable or satellite companies is going to pick them up?


----------



## dturturro

Yes, it's about the combiner. The last time I e-mailed they said they already wewre up and running in the downtown area. Of course, that only helps about 5 people. After that the estimate was the end of Q2. Now we're talking about the EOY. Why can't WLIW-DT go back to HD until then I don't know.


----------



## r8d

I just got Dish Network last week and while I like the HD content, I want more - to justify buying an HDTV. So, I'm looking into an antenna to pick up the locals (or anything else) in HD. I live in Middlesex, NJ (central). I'd like to avoid spending too much on an antenna since I had to convince my wife to get Dish in the first place...and to let me buy an HDTV. Any suggestions? I see the Zenith ZHD-TV1 (indoor) is only $17 on Buy.com but will that get me enough channels with good - excellent reception? Any suggestions are appreciated.


What channels can I pick up? I assume ABC,CBS,NBC.


I also found the Winegard ss-2000 for $99 based on recommendation from checkHD.com. I'm not sure if it is overkill or not.


----------



## mister_two

Does anyone know if tonight's Mets/Yankees game on WPIX will be in widescreen HD? I see it's on WOR- channel 9 also but I can only get WB in HD. Thanks.


----------



## UroDoc

Mets home games are in HD so I ASSUME the Mets Yankees game will be also (on WPIX). Yankees home games on UPN9 are not in HD (Why I just don't understand). Since they will be receiving the Mets feed it might also be in HD but personally I doubt it.


----------



## hphase

Yankees and Mets are on WB11-HD. Don't know if it's the same equipment as YES-HD. It looks 1080i, but the audio is fake 5.1 -- announcers in all channels -- and out of lip sync. Very un-YES!


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hphase_
> *Yankees and Mets are on WB11-HD. Don't know if it's the same equipment as YES-HD. It looks 1080i, but the audio is fake 5.1 -- announcers in all channels -- and out of lip sync. Very un-YES!*



Well, there's always UPN!


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dturturro_
> *Well, there's always UPN!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yeah, they _did_ take the YES feed, but only in SD.


----------



## acebreathe

It took playing the Mets to see the Yanks in HD but it was worth it, even having to listen to Seaver. I didn't think it was possible but he's more lame now than he was when he was with the Yanks. Saturday we have Fox. Is the WB got Sunday as well?


----------



## mikeny

Do you guys think WB could lower their "info bar" a little more so maybe it'll go across the batters face and not just his helmet?










The PQ is much worse than the YES-HD games and every time they throw that WB logo across the screen after a replay it pixelates. The audio is very poor, coming out the rears twice as loud as the front. Someone called it fake Dolby Digital. I agree.


It was good to listen to Seaver analyze every pitch and swing again. He's a little over-the-top but I do like him. However, there's no such thing as a "Rising Sinker". I don't care how he tries to spin it.










At least WB is providing HD games. I applaud them for that but please chop info bar and fix the audio.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by r8d_
> *I just got Dish Network last week and while I like the HD content, I want more - to justify buying an HDTV. So, I'm looking into an antenna to pick up the locals (or anything else) in HD. I live in Middlesex, NJ (central). I'd like to avoid spending too much on an antenna since I had to convince my wife to get Dish in the first place...and to let me buy an HDTV. Any suggestions? I see the Zenith ZHD-TV1 (indoor) is only $17 on Buy.com but will that get me enough channels with good - excellent reception? Any suggestions are appreciated.
> 
> 
> What channels can I pick up? I assume ABC,CBS,NBC.
> 
> 
> I also found the Winegard ss-2000 for $99 based on recommendation from checkHD.com. I'm not sure if it is overkill or not.*



Check out the Central NJ OTA thread . I'm in Middlesex County as well. Follow the link and post some more specifics over there such as which town you are in, if you have a lot of trees around, etc...


Someone is BOUND to be in your neck of the woods. If you are indeed in Middlesex County you have a GREAT chance of being able to pick up Philly OTA stations as well with a rooftop/attic antenna. Even the Silver Sensor (the ZHD-TV1 is the stepsister/cousin of that antenna) *may* be able to pick up either NYC or Philly stations OTA....depending on your local terrain/enviornment (at least from my experience where I am in Middlesex). I have the ChannelMaster 4228 with a CM pre-amp and can pick up most if not all of the NYC OTA stations....and a decent amount of the Philly OTA stations (in addition to the NJN offerings).


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by r8d_
> *I just got Dish Network last week and while I like the HD content, I want more - to justify buying an HDTV. So, I'm looking into an antenna to pick up the locals (or anything else) in HD. I live in Middlesex, NJ (central). I'd like to avoid spending too much on an antenna since I had to convince my wife to get Dish in the first place...and to let me buy an HDTV.*



I can't see you having a big issue in Middlesex county getting the OTA from the Empire State Building. I live in Matawan which is the most northern section of Monmouth County and is neighbors to some of Middledex county. I usually pickup UPN and WB with no issues on my 35 year old VHF/UHF attic antenna. CBS, NBC, FOX and ABC I get via D*. I have tested CBS, NBC, FOX and ABC via my antenna and NBC is the only guaranteed flaky channel for me. The others usually come in fine.


So if you were to get a good antenna mounted outside I doubt you will have any problems. For a few bucks you could try a Silver Sensor and see what happens.


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MLM_
> *Long Islanders, if you're having trouble and can't receive everything from the combiner I suggest that you visit LNL in Syosset. Based on your location they usually know exactly what you need--and in my case it was less expensive than what I thought I needed.
> 
> 
> LNL is at 235 Robbins Lane - Syosset, NY 11791, 516-681-7270. No connection except as customer.*



By the way sent them an email for information on Tuesday, still waiting for a reply... Guess I'll try the phone next, but would expect a brief reply email at least...


oh well...


----------



## PDPnNJ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by acebreathe_
> *Is the WB got Sunday as well?*



Yes.


----------



## LINDELLTOM

TVJAZZMAN, suprised you did not receive a reply to your e. mail, they are usually very quick on that, anyhow very helpful and they know their products.


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LINDELLTOM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TVJAZZMAN, suprised you did not receive a reply to your e. mail, they are usually very quick on that, anyhow very helpful and they know their products.




Well then, I'll give them a day or two and in the meantime resend the email. We all have tough weeks sometime, they're due one too...


Appreciate the note, will also try them by phone mid week..


----------



## housecor

I'm visiting NYC next week and would like to visit a few high end A/V shops. Could anyone recommend a store or two on Manhattan island with impressive showrooms? Feel free to PM. Thanks!


----------



## Ken Ross

By all means visit B&H Photo & Video on 9th Ave & 34Th Street. Lots of fun stuff. Also try Harvey Electronics @ 47th st between 5th & 6th Avenues. Nice selection of high end plasmas and FPs.


----------



## Yung




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *housecor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm visiting NYC next week and would like to visit a few high end A/V shops. Could anyone recommend a store or two on Manhattan island with impressive showrooms? Feel free to PM. Thanks!



You might also want to check out S&S Sound City. Its a few doors down from Harvey's Electronics on 45th Street.


----------



## Yung

I'm in Queens, NY and seem to have lost the signal to ABC-DT. I use to be able to pick it up on 7-1 with my built-in tuner on my sony xbr960, but I get no signal now. The alternate channel, 45-1 is also without a signal. Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Yung* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Queens, NY and seem to have lost the signal to ABC-DT. I use to be able to pick it up on 7-1 with my built-in tuner on my sony xbr960, but I get no signal now. The alternate channel, 45-1 is also without a signal. Has this happened to anyone else?





I was able to watch it except for the last minute. Top part of screen had black and green patchwork, bottom ok. Anybody know who Dr Shepard's wife is?


----------



## mw390

Tuned in to WPIX at 9 AM and I now have 11-1, 11-2, 11-3. All 3 have "the judge" in English

HD HD and SD


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was able to watch it except for the last minute. Top part of screen had black and green patchwork, bottom ok. Anybody know who Dr Shepard's wife is?



Same thing happened to me. Worst time to lose half the picture!


----------



## ziggy60

The D* tech is in my house now to upgrade to HD and he says that there's no point getting the D* OTA since it doesnt work in Staten Island. Is it true? Anyone using it?


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ziggy60* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The D* tech is in my house now to upgrade to HD and he says that there's no point getting the D* OTA since it doesnt work in Staten Island. Is it true? Anyone using it?




Full of crap....


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was able to watch it except for the last minute. Top part of screen had black and green patchwork, bottom ok. Anybody know who Dr Shepard's wife is?



Same thing happened to me as well! I thought it was a problem with my HD Tivo, but see now that it was a transmission glitch. I also recorded the SD version of Grey's on a Tivo in another room, and can tell you that Shepard's wife is not someone we've previously seen in the series. She's a very attractive lady who we'll probably see again in a future episode.


/steve


----------



## housecor

Ken & Yung - I appreciate the recommendations! Looking forward to my NYC visit...


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *housecor* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ken & Yung - I appreciate the recommendations! Looking forward to my NYC visit...




Housecor,


Stop by these places too


Sony Wonder Technology Lab

550 Madison Ave, (Between Madison and Fifth Ave),

New York City, NY 10022-3211


Samsung Experience

10 Columbus Circle, Time Warner Center








have a great time!


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LL3HD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Housecor,
> 
> 
> Stop by these places too
> 
> 
> Sony Wonder Technology Lab
> 
> 550 Madison Ave, (Between Madison and Fifth Ave),
> 
> New York City, NY 10022-3211
> 
> 
> Samsung Experience
> 
> 10 Columbus Circle, Time Warner Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have a great time!



Has everyone forgotten about J&R electronics? - across from City Hall.


----------



## housecor

Wow, I admittedly went off topic and you guys were happy to help. Now who says New Yorkers aren't friendly? Thanks guys! Can't wait for my trip.


----------



## GSfromCT

Has anyone else noticed a big jump in signal on Fox 5? For the past week Fox's signal has been rivaling my best signal from ESB which is WCBS.

Today Fox was registering 90% when WCBS was coming in at 88%. At first I thought it was atmospheric but every day the signal is staying strong.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed a big jump in signal on Fox 5? For the past week Fox's signal has been rivaling my best signal from ESB which is WCBS.
> 
> Today Fox was registering 90% when WCBS was coming in at 88%. At first I thought it was atmospheric but every day the signal is staying strong.



Not atmospherics - WNYW-DT is now at its higher strength - the most powerful signal in the New York Metropolitan area - 990kW - ERP.


Gary


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not atmospherics - WNYW-DT is now at its higher strength - the most powerful signal in the New York Metropolitan area - 990kW - ERP.
> 
> 
> Gary



Gary, any idea when it happened? If I remember right, I noticed the the spike in signal over last weekend.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gary, any idea when it happened? If I remember right, I noticed the the spike in signal over last weekend.



Approximately 5/18 - 5/19!


Gary


----------



## Phil Hightech

Hello All,

Does anyone know what channels WNET-DT will be broadcasting?

On Cablevision I receive WNET-HD with two subs, Kids and World. Is that what we'll be getting OTA? What about the programming on analog 13?

Phil


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Hightech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> Does anyone know what channels WNET-DT will be broadcasting?
> 
> On Cablevision I receive WNET-HD with two subs, Kids and World. Is that what we'll be getting OTA? What about the programming on analog 13?
> 
> Phil



Phil -


It's all on WNET's web site, thirteen.org.


13.1 = WNET Analog

13.2 = PBS Kids

13.3 = World


When the station connects to the Combiner, it will be transmitting on Channel 61 -

and after spending all of that money for a new transmitter, and taking forever, the FCC will be changing the channel assignment. Go figure!


Gary


----------



## shlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed a big jump in signal on Fox 5? For the past week Fox's signal has been rivaling my best signal from ESB which is WCBS.
> 
> Today Fox was registering 90% when WCBS was coming in at 88%. At first I thought it was atmospheric but every day the signal is staying strong.



Is WNBC full power? I cannot get it here in Central New Jersey.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WNBC full power? I cannot get it here in Central New Jersey.



Supposedly WNBC is full power. I have not seen even a blip of WNBC (or WPIX on 12 or 33) on my signal strength meter up here in CT either. I get WCBS and WNYW perfectly and almost all the time except heavy storms. 7-x and 9-x come in pretty good as long as the weather isn't too bad.

I thought I'd get WNBC when it went full seeing how I get 9-x, which is kinda close in power, channel and height. WNBC must have a tight signal pattern or something just isn't right. Their signal doesn't seem to go out as far as others from the combiner.


Way to go WNYW, your signal rocks all the way up here to just slightly past your DMA!


----------



## SnellKrell

George Thompson of NBC has reported here that WNBC-DT's signal is omnidirectional.


Gary


----------



## Phil Hightech

Gary: Thanks for the reply


GSfromCt: Dips and peaks in signal strength are common, especially in fringe areas.

Picture this: You're in the car approaching a red light. As you come to a stop your favorite tune from that distant FM station turns to static (you're in a dip AKA trough) So what do you do? We all know, roll the car a few more feet and you're back singing Jesse's Girl







The same principle applies here although moving a roof mounted antenna is certainly more difficult. However, if you have exhausted all other possibilities (antenna, cable, connectors, splitters etc..) you might want to give it a try.


Phil


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Hightech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gary: Thanks for the reply
> 
> 
> GSfromCt: Dips and peaks in signal strength are common, especially in fringe areas.
> 
> Picture this: You're in the car approaching a red light. As you come to a stop your favorite tune from that distant FM station turns to static (you're in a dip AKA trough) So what do you do? We all know, roll the car a few more feet and you're back singing Jesse's Girl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same principle applies here although moving a roof mounted antenna is certainly more difficult. However, if you have exhausted all other possibilities (antenna, cable, connectors, splitters etc..) you might want to give it a try.
> 
> 
> Phil



Phil. I put up dual CM 4221's so I don't have to rotate the antenna to get ESB stations and WLIW. One of these days I may throw up my CM 4248 yagi again just to see if there is any difference. I should be able to pinpoint WNBC with that. If I'm really lazy in getting the yagi up, I'm sure I'll get WNBC from the Freedom Tower (or is it the Freedom Tower sponsored by Trump? LOL).


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Phil. I put up dual CM 4221's so I don't have to rotate the antenna to get ESB stations and WLIW. One of these days I may throw up my CM 4248 yagi again just to see if there is any difference. I should be able to pinpoint WNBC with that. If I'm really lazy in getting the yagi up, I'm sure I'll get WNBC from the Freedom Tower (or is it the Freedom Tower sponsored by Trump? LOL).



The problem may be the combined 4221's. You cannot (usually) aim dual antennas combined with a splitter in different directions. You need to use a tunable combiner which will isolate the WLIW signal before it is added back into the coax. The antenna that is pointing at WLIW is adding out of phase signals from the ESB screwing things up. If this is your situation, I would suggest reaiming both antennas to the ESB to see if that solves the problem. Then you can start experimenting with WLIW.


Phil


----------



## badasscat

Not sure if this has been asked/answered, but I didn't see anything in my search of the thread...


I'm in Astoria, in a 6 story apt. building, using an admittedly cheap antenna. Still, I can get all of the locals I should be getting at full strength (according to my TV's built-in meter), *except* for WPIX. I've checked antennaweb.org and I've got my antenna facing the right way (in fact, it's the same direction many other channels I am getting are coming from), but nothing.


Wouldn't be so bad but I need my baseball! There's nothing else I really care about on PIX. Worst thing is they're not available on cable yet either, so OTA is my only real choice.


I've checked their web site and found this:


"*Construction work associated with WPIX's permanent FCC assigned channel 33 installation is not fully complete, and so at times WPIX may not be able to transmit on this channel. Consequently WPIX-DT will also continue its temporary low power transmissions on channel 12."


Is this still the case, or is this info old? (It's dated from Dec. 04). Could it be that I'm trying to tune them when they're on their "low power" channel 12? How low is low? Should I still be able to receive them or are we talking like, a 12 block radius and then the signal's dead?


Thanks for any help.


----------



## dm145

Way old. Search this thread for the power they are running at (close to full power). Not a Mets fan, but when they are home and on WPIX-DT, I find myself watching over SD Yankees games.


----------



## badasscat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Way old. Search this thread for the power they are running at (close to full power). Not a Mets fan, but when they are home and on WPIX-DT, I find myself watching over SD Yankees games.



Ok, forgive the newbie Q's... I see that they're on the Combiner, along with several other channels. (All broadcasting from the ESB?)


I get these other channels fine. Why would I not get PIX?


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Supposedly WNBC is full power. I have not seen even a blip of WNBC (or WPIX on 12 or 33) on my signal strength meter up here in CT either. I get WCBS and WNYW perfectly and almost all the time except heavy storms. 7-x and 9-x come in pretty good as long as the weather isn't too bad.
> 
> I thought I'd get WNBC when it went full seeing how I get 9-x, which is kinda close in power, channel and height. WNBC must have a tight signal pattern or something just isn't right. Their signal doesn't seem to go out as far as others from the combiner.
> 
> 
> Way to go WNYW, your signal rocks all the way up here to just slightly past your DMA!



I live in Wilton, Ct. I have never been able to receive WNBC. Also, ever since WNYW increased its power I have a great signal but have completely lost WWOR, 9-x.


In addition, recently CBS 2-1 has become borderline and WPIX 11-x unusable. The latter could be trees due to the leaves now being full but I am no expert.


I have a Winegard bi-directional and my strongest station continues to be WTNH 8-x from New Haven.


Martin21


----------



## Gary Quiring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WNBC full power? I cannot get it here in Central New Jersey.



I live in Matawan and also don't get NBC on most days. CBS, FOX, UPN and WB are fine. I am not sure about ABC.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Hightech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem may be the combined 4221's. You cannot (usually) aim dual antennas combined with a splitter in different directions. You need to use a tunable combiner which will isolate the WLIW signal before it is added back into the coax. The antenna that is pointing at WLIW is adding out of phase signals from the ESB screwing things up. If this is your situation, I would suggest reaiming both antennas to the ESB to see if that solves the problem. Then you can start experimenting with WLIW.
> 
> 
> Phil



I'm vertically stacked with both pointing in the same direction. I wanted an 8 bay bow tie configuration, but not a CM 4228 as that would have narrowed my beamwidth and would not allow me to get WLIW and ESB at the same time.

If Martin21 cannot get WNBC in Wilton then I don't have a prayer. Martin21 is like 30 miles closer than me. I'm 62 miles out. I'm in the fringe, that is for sure.


----------



## HoundBaby

I am having the same problem with NBC. I have tryed 2 different antennas, a Radio Shack VU-120 XR and Antennas Direct DB4 . Every station from the combiner come's in with no problem with the execption of NBC.


----------



## GRN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WNBC full power? I cannot get it here in Central New Jersey..



Up until a week ago it was coming in as one of my strongest signals (I live in Nassau County, NY). Then one day, poof, it disappeared. Now it comes in intermittently. Have no clue why.


Oddly enough, the same thing has happened with CBS-DT, which once was the strongest signal out of all of them. It's almost impssible to lock on to a good signal on either CBS-DT or NBC-DT on my receiver.


Odd.


----------



## badasscat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *badasscat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, forgive the newbie Q's... I see that they're on the Combiner, along with several other channels. (All broadcasting from the ESB?)
> 
> 
> I get these other channels fine. Why would I not get PIX?



Sorry to answer myself, but just to sort of close this off...


I think I was getting PIX the whole time and not realizing it. My TV auto-scans for channels and does not allow direct input of sub-channels. So if I set it to auto-scan, it'll memorize the channels it can receive, and if I then put in "4" it'll automatically go to "4-1" (I can then channel-up to get to 4-2 or whatever).


If I put in 11, I always got the analog version. I also didn't see it if I pressed channel-up and went through all my channels.


But yesterday, I just manually entered 33 and lo and behold, there's Pedro Martinez on the mound. Within 5 seconds, the channel re-ID'd itself on my TV as 11-1. I now always get 11-1 when I enter 11 on my remote.


No idea why the channel didn't get put into memory in the first place, but it's working fine now... I have all the local channels at full strength


----------



## shlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HoundBaby* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am having the same problem with NBC. I have tryed 2 different antennas, a Radio Shack VU-120 XR and Antennas Direct DB4 . Every station from the combiner come's in with no problem with the execption of NBC.



I guess WNBC will only increase its power when some of us become 'Nelson Family' and no signal here would start to hurt their rating. I for one have not watched any NBC's prime time show since I got my HDTV.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *badasscat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry to answer myself, but just to sort of close this off...
> 
> 
> No idea why the channel didn't get put into memory in the first place, but it's working fine now... I have all the local channels at full strength



badasscat:

Some people reported the same issue when PIX started broadcasting on channel 33. I think the broadcasting on channel 33 and 12 of the same channel confuses some receivers.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Phil -
> 
> 
> It's all on WNET's web site, thirteen.org.
> 
> 
> 13.1 = WNET Analog
> 
> 13.2 = PBS Kids
> 
> 13.3 = World
> 
> 
> When the station connects to the Combiner, it will be transmitting on Channel 61 -
> 
> and after spending all of that money for a new transmitter, and taking forever, the FCC will be changing the channel assignment. Go figure!
> 
> 
> Gary



What is the time frame for this?


----------



## SnellKrell

Anyone's guess is as good as mine or yours.


Probably within the next 5 months - before year end.


When the station gives up its analog allocation, the digital channel will also be on 13.


Gary


----------



## Chriš2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm vertically stacked with both pointing in the same direction. I wanted an 8 bay bow tie configuration, but not a CM 4228 as that would have narrowed my beamwidth and would not allow me to get WLIW and ESB at the same time.
> 
> If Martin21 cannot get WNBC in Wilton then I don't have a prayer. Martin21 is like 30 miles closer than me. I'm 62 miles out. I'm in the fringe, that is for sure.



I'm in Norwalk, at sea level surrounded by tall trees to the southwest (directly in the signal path). I can pick up NBC fine with a Channelmaster 4228 inside the attic (with 2 layers of asphalt shingles) and a 7777 amp. I originally had a Radio Shack UHF yagi outside on a chimney mount, and I was getting an intermittent signal. I'm getting a stronger signal with the 4228 inside believe it or not. It is quite directional, so every once in a while I need to go up a rotate it slightly to get the best signal, but it's a lot better than the previous setup.


----------



## dturturro

I've lost WWOR-DT here on Long Island. Anyone else?


----------



## ARM07470

WWOR-DT was out for me tonight as well here in Wayne, NJ. Its back on now though.


----------



## DanXP

can anyone give me a rundown of what OTA HD channels can be picked up in the Fort Lee, NJ area? i'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to buy an HD antenna even tho i have time warner cable with their current list of HD channels:


HBO, CBS, SHOWTIME, NBC, FOX, DISC, ABC, YES, TNT, PBS... they're missing at least WOR and WPIX, i think...


and what antenna should i get?


thanks for any help...


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DanXP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> can anyone give me a rundown of what OTA HD channels can be picked up in the Fort Lee, NJ area? i'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to buy an HD antenna even tho i have time warner cable with their current list of HD channels:
> 
> 
> HBO, CBS, SHOWTIME, NBC, FOX, DISC, ABC, YES, TNT, PBS... they're missing at least WOR and WPIX, i think...
> 
> 
> and what antenna should i get?
> 
> 
> thanks for any help...



There is no such thing as as "HD antenna "


If you already have an OTA receiver then a small UHF antenna should pick up all the NYC OTA DTV channels. You are correct in that you are only missing wor and pix.


----------



## trend1

Anyone having problems locking in on the Mets on the WB tonight? The game started of fine but started breaking up around the second inning and now I'm getting nothing. Yankee fan watching the Mets because of HDTV










Thanks, Tony


----------



## ARM07470

WPIX is coming in fine here in Wayne. I did have a lot of trouble with several channels late last night. I did a scan and found that I could receive Philly and Baltimore!!! stations which I never was able to do before. I guess this hot and humid weather had something to do with it.


----------



## icemannyr

I'm east of you and I have no luck with WPIX-DT using a Silver Sensor antenna with the Fusion QAM card.

The best I can get from CH33 UHF is 20% signal. All the other locals if the antenna is in the right area I can tune in.


----------



## trend1

Well my WB is currently working! Lets GO HD Mets. Gotta love free HD.


Yankee fan that can't receive YESHD










Tony


----------



## ARM07470

icemannyr,


I may be west of you but I do have the advantage of a roof mounted DB4 with a CM7777 preamp. Also, for whatever reason, WPIX-DT is currently my best signal (at least according to my Dish Network 942) with readings typically between 95 and 100. I guess I'm in some sort of a hotspot for receiving WPIX-DT. Funny thing is that I don't really care for baseball so it doesn't do me much good tonight!


- Anthony


----------



## trekkerj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trend1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Yankee fan that can't receive YESHD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony



How come? Doesn't every cable company in the area have it?


----------



## johncoyne

Just curious if anyone on Long Island, NY is getting the WB11 in HD with OTA with Direct TV? I'd like to see the NY Mets home games in HD and wonder if this is the way to go at the moment (until D*TV) adds WB HD.

Thanks.

John, NY


----------



## netman

I can swear the audio level difference between CBS and everyone else is increasing. I don't remember it being as great as it is now. By my ear it is 15 DB louder than the other stations. Anyone else feel this has gotten worse than it already was? Maybe I am just reaching a limit of patience with it?


----------



## DTVDAD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johncoyne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just curious if anyone on Long Island, NY is getting the WB11 in HD with OTA with Direct TV? I'd like to see the NY Mets home games in HD and wonder if this is the way to go at the moment (until D*TV) adds WB HD.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> John, NY



John,


Many on LI are getting WB11 and the Mets Home HD games. I'm getting it with my Dishnetwork 942 OTA using a Channelmaster 4248 antenna. If you need help selecting an antenna call the guys at L&L in Syosset, they will likely know the right antenna for your situation. Good Luck.


----------



## milehighmike

skinlab (your thread was closed)


The placement of a satellite dish or antenna cannot be restricted by your homeowner's association/covenants, etc. so that you are prevented from receiving a signal. Aesthetics cannot enter into the equation. If you need to place your satellite dish in an area on your property that the homeowner's association doesn't like - that's their problem. Same holds true for an antenna mounted on your roof. Because of restrictions such as those you relate, it literally took an act of Congress to stop this nonsense. The result was the Telecommunications Act of 1996.


Go to the FCC web site, search OTARD, then click on the file titled "FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas". Make sure you read the various cases at the end of the file. And just ignore any restrictions (unless safety related, and even some of these are not enforceable) by your homeowner's association's covenants - they can't be enforced.


So install your dish where it needs to be and put an antenna on your roof to get OTA.


----------



## CynKennard

netman,


WCBS is and has been about 13 to 15 db louder than most other stations. It is very annoying. Fortunately I have a computerized system for tuning stations. I have an audio adjustment for each station, so the volume is adjusted automatically. While I would hate to see the compression that A.M. stations used to use, there should be an average audio level that all stations must adhere to.


Cynthia


----------



## skinlab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *milehighmike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> skinlab (your thread was closed)
> 
> 
> The placement of a satellite dish or antenna cannot be restricted by your homeowner's association/covenants, etc. so that you are prevented from receiving a signal. Aesthetics cannot enter into the equation. If you need to place your satellite dish in an area on your property that the homeowner's association doesn't like - that's their problem. Same holds true for an antenna mounted on your roof. Because of restrictions such as those you relate, it literally took an act of Congress to stop this nonsense. The result was the Telecommunications Act of 1996.
> 
> 
> Go to the FCC web site, search OTARD, then click on the file titled "FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas". Make sure you read the various cases at the end of the file. And just ignore any restrictions (unless safety related, and even some of these are not enforceable) by your homeowner's association's covenants - they can't be enforced.
> 
> 
> So install your dish where it needs to be and put an antenna on your roof to get OTA.



Thanks Milehigh. I'm pretty sure I'm going to file a petition with the FCC (after I call the association of course). I started this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=548930 about it. Dunno if it's in the right spot or if it's going to get locked though


----------



## dturturro

I know that the board likes to steer clear of politics, but I got the OK from the Administraters to post this. With votes going on to cut federal spending on PBS I thought it would be appropriate to post a petition link to save PBS. A cut & paste of the page linking to the petition is listed below. In my case I'm being selfish, I want HD PBS, but those with children may want to consider the loss pf shows like Sesame Street and Reading Rainbow.


Sign the petition if you'd like but to make a real impact go to congress.gov and get the contact info for your local comgressmen and senators and raise hell!


http://www.moveon.org/publicbroadcasting/


----------



## Infominister

PBS will be safe once the Republicans find a way to turn it into another Fox News. So, be patient. They're working on it.


----------



## dm145

Yankees home games on UPN9 are killing me.

Can you give us HD please?


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yankees home games on UPN9 are killing me.
> 
> Can you give us HD please?



Not sure if you have DirecTV, but if you do, homegames are usually in HD on channel 94. Now if only their playing could equal the picture!










/steve


----------



## DanXP

Does UPN9/WWOR even broadcast in HD? if not, does it intend to ever?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DanXP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does UPN9/WWOR even broadcast in HD? if not, does it intend to ever?



It does, but it has a very limited HD schedule. I'm not sure if they still do it but they used to show rereuns of Enterprise in SD


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sluciani* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not sure if you have DirecTV, but if you do, homegames are usually in HD on channel 94. Now if only their playing could equal the picture!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /steve



Yes I do, and that is why it is killing me. The last three games were in HD on Directv ch 94.


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes I do, and that is why it is killing me. The last three games were in HD on Directv ch 94.



Interesting. Tonight's game vs. the Cubs is on WWOR (9.1) in SD with pillar boxes, but not on DirecTV 94 in HD. Apparently it's only the YES-carried home games that make it to HD 94. Not sure why YES doesn't offer WWOR the same HD feed it makes available to DirecTV. I'm assuming it's for contractual reasons, not technical.


/steve


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes I do, and that is why it is killing me. The last three games were in HD on Directv ch 94.




Not that most will care, but apparently DirecTV is now doing HD in a variant of HD in that it is sending it's HD out 1280x1080i, not 1920x1080i, makes for abit softer picture but provides for a bit more bandwidth for them to playwith...


You may not notice anyway as there compression ratio for HD is typically 12mbps not the more desirable 19mbps that Voom was broadcasting. Not sure what Voom on Echostar is coming down the pipe.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TVjazzman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not that most will care, but apparently DirecTV is now doing HD in a variant of HD in that it is sending it's HD out 1280x1080i, not 1920x1080i, makes for abit softer picture but provides for a bit more bandwidth for them to playwith....



This actually isn't that new for D*. They've been doing it for as long as I can remember.


[/quote]


You may not notice anyway as there compression ratio for HD is typically 12mbps not the more desirable 19mbps that Voom was broadcasting. Not sure what Voom on Echostar is coming down the pipe.[/quote]


Not sure of the Voom channels but most of the HD pak on E* is coming in around 17Mbps.


----------



## GSfromCT

With digital assignments changing in 2009 I believe WWOR will go to channel 9 for digital broadcasting and WABC will broadcast digitally on channel 7.

Will this mess things up with the combiner? I thought the combiner was specifically tuned for the frequencies that are ibeing used by it now.

Does anybody have an idea what will happen?

Or was the Freedom Tower supposed to be built by then?


----------



## SnellKrell

The latest round of new channel allocations for the NY DMA are as follows:


WNBC-DT -28

WNYW-DT-44

WABC-DT -7

WWOR-DT-9

WPIX-DT-11

WNET-DT-13

WMBC-DT-18

WLIW-DT-21

WNYE-DT-24

WPXN-DT-31

WNJU-DT-36

WXTV-DT-40

WNJN-DT-51


This, and the previous round of allocation requests did not include WCBS-DT.

WCBS-DT will not be able to use either channel 2 or channel56 and must wait until the FCC

can see what channels will be available in the market.


I don't know whether a given station's entire transmitter must be changed or just parts - but with a frequency change so must the transmitter be altered.


We haven't even seen the latest design for the Freedmom Tower, no less what will be planned for television transmission.


My guess is that Empire State will be with us for a long, long time.


Gary


----------



## RMSko

Recently I have had difficulty tuning in ABC and CBS. NBC comes in great (signal strength around 92) and Aalthough BC and CBS come in with a signal strength of around 80, both of those channels don't "hold' those numbers and at times the signal strength goes down to 10! Anyone else having similar problems?


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The latest round of new channel allocations for the NY DMA are as follows:
> 
> 
> WNBC-DT -28
> 
> WNYW-DT-44
> 
> WABC-DT -7
> 
> WWOR-DT-9
> 
> WPIX-DT-11
> 
> WNET-DT-13
> 
> WMBC-DT-18
> 
> WLIW-DT-21
> 
> WNYE-DT-24
> 
> WPXN-DT-31
> 
> WNJU-DT-36
> 
> WXTV-DT-40
> 
> WNJN-DT-51
> 
> 
> 
> Gary





So, if I understand correctly, my UHF only antenna will be useless to pick up WABC, WWOR, WPIX and WNET. Is this right? If so, any time frame contemplated?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, if I understand correctly, my UHF only antenna will be useless to pick up WABC, WWOR, WPIX and WNET. Is this right? If so, any time frame contemplated?



Not exactly. UHF _only_ antennas usually pick up the upper VHF band. Hook it up to an analog tuner and see if it pulls in 7-13.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The latest round of new channel allocations for the NY DMA are as follows: ...
> 
> 
> I don't know whether a given station's entire transmitter must be changed or just parts - but with a frequency change so must the transmitter be altered.
> 
> ...
> 
> My guess is that Empire State will be with us for a long, long time.
> 
> 
> Gary



My main concern was with the combiner. I thought I understood that the combiner was specifically tuned for the channels running through it. I was wondering if the combiner will have to be dismantled and "recombined" or re-tuned. Maybe George will have an answer for us.

If it is just a tweak to the transmitter and a re-scan on our end that would be painless for us, but probably more cost to the broadcasters who are changing their frequency.


----------



## ma8466

Hi,


I'm new to this forum, so please be gentle with me!










I have a Terk HDTVi antenna hooked up to a Samsung SIRT451. Here's a list of what I can and can't get OTA for the following channels:


WCBS-DT 2-1

WNBC-DT 4-1, 4-2

WNYW-DT 5-1, 5-2

WABC-DT 7-1,7-2

WWOR-DT 9-1,9-2

WPIX-DT 11-1, 11-2 (11-3 was a full SD screen briefly, but that has since disappeared)

WNET-DT (can't get at all from my location)

WMBC-DT (can't get at all from my location)

WLIW-DT (can't get at all from my location)

WNYE-DT (can't get at all from my location)

WFME-DT 29-1, 29-2 (29-3 through 29-10 are audio only...signal comes in on a good night)

WPXN-DT (there's a signal, but all I get is a blank screen)

WNJU-DT 36-1 (signal is shaky at times, need to move antenna around a bit)

WXTV-DT 41-1

WRNN-DT 48-1, 48-2 (on a good night, this can come in)

WNJN-DT 50-1, 50-2, 50-3, 50-4, 50-5

WFUT-DT 53-1


Yes, I realize that if I had an outdoor antenna, I'd be able to pull in more channels, but I'm living in an apartment and the landlord isn't going to allow me to place anything on his roof. But for the highly criticized Terk HDTVi antenna, my experience with it has been more positive than negative. I guess that's because of the proximity of where I'm located in respect to most of the transmitters, many of which are at the Empire State Building.


When the heck is WPXN-DT going to resume DT broadcasts? No one seems to have an answer for that...


From what I have learned, WNET-DT is supposed to go full power this year. Someone had mentioned that the only place to get WNET-DT OTA is in Newark or if you're lucky, Jersey City?


Anyway, I would like to say that this is a great forum and I'm happy to join in the discussion.











...Mel


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ma8466* /forum/post/0
> 
> From what I have learned, WNET-DT is supposed to go full power this year.
> 
> ...Mel



With the congressional budget cuts to PBS I wouldn't count on it


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ma8466* /forum/post/0
> 
> WCBS-DT 2-1
> 
> WNBC-DT 4-1, 4-2
> 
> WNYW-DT 5-1, 5-2
> 
> WABC-DT 7-1,7-2
> 
> WWOR-DT 9-1,9-2
> 
> WPIX-DT 11-1, 11-2 (11-3 was a full SD screen briefly, but that has since disappeared)
> 
> WNET-DT (can't get at all from my location)
> 
> WMBC-DT (can't get at all from my location)
> 
> WLIW-DT (can't get at all from my location)
> 
> WNYE-DT (can't get at all from my location)
> 
> WFME-DT 29-1, 29-2 (29-3 through 29-10 are audio only...signal comes in on a good night)
> 
> WPXN-DT (there's a signal, but all I get is a blank screen)
> 
> WNJU-DT 36-1 (signal is shaky at times, need to move antenna around a bit)
> 
> WXTV-DT 41-1
> 
> WRNN-DT 48-1, 48-2 (on a good night, this can come in)
> 
> WNJN-DT 50-1, 50-2, 50-3, 50-4, 50-5
> 
> WFUT-DT 53-1
> 
> 
> From what I have learned, WNET-DT is supposed to go full power this year. Someone had mentioned that the only place to get WNET-DT OTA is in Newark or if you're lucky, Jersey City?
> 
> 
> ...Mel



I'm in Jersey City and can not get WNET-DT or WLIW-DT. I have a channel Master CM4228 mounted on my roof. I can get the following with very solid numbers:


WCBS-DT 2-1

WNBC-DT 4-1, 4-2

WNYW-DT 5-1, 5-2

WABC-DT 7-1,7-2

WWOR-DT 9-1,9-2

WPIX-DT 11-1, 11-2 (11-3 was a full SD screen briefly, but that has since disappeared)


As for the higher UHF stations, I don't watch them so I haven't checked to see if I get them.


----------



## SnellKrell

Good News!!!!


WNET-DT has started transmitting from the Combiner atop the ESB!


I noticed, for the first time, a very weak signal registering on my digital receiver.


Here, on East 63rd Street in Manhattan, the signal, using a an indoor antenna, is not strong enough to provide a picture.


The bad news is that channel 61's power is authorized at only 12.4Kw. Better than the power from the station's West 33rd Street building - 2.66Kw - but nowhere near the World Trade Center's 219Kw.


Not being an engineer, but 12.4Kw using channel 61 is way too low.


Hope you have better luck than I getting a picture.


Gary


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNET-DT has started transmitting from the Combiner atop the ESB!



Strong signal on Long Island about 20 mile away from ESB.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, walked the Silver Sensor around the room and found a "sweet spot" so I can now receive Channel 61 with a steady picture. First time I've seen WNET-DT!


Unfortunately, and typical of digital multipath, 61's "sweet spot" doesn't work well for the other channels from the ESB.


Gary


----------



## michaelk

anyone further out getting it? Say 50 miles?


----------



## ma8466

From about 10-15 miles west of the Empire State Building, WNET-DT is coming in at 60-70% strength. I am located in South Hackensack, NJ and using a Samsung SIRT451 with a Terk HDTVi antenna. Need to fiddle around with the antenna for a "sweet spot".


At least I'll be able to watch the 3rd season premiere of the Soundstage show with Michael McDonald on HDTV.











...Mel


----------



## mw390

They are now on the air with 13-1 (HD) 13-2 (SD) and 13-3 (SD)


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bogney Baux* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Strong signal on Long Island about 20 mile away from ESB.



Strong signal in Westchester County as well, about 20 miles north. I'm getting an 80 out of 100 as of 3PM Wednesday, the 29th. At the same time, I'm getting 90 or a little higher on CBS, NBC and ABC.


/steve


----------



## michaelk

hmmmm........ maybe when it cools off I'll climb upstairs and turn my antenna from philly to NYC- I cant seem to get a pbs out of philly for some reason, but from the combiner I think if there is enough power I could get WNET....


enough power being the key there....


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *michaelk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hmmmm........ maybe when it cools off I'll climb upstairs and turn my antenna from philly to NYC- I cant seem to get a pbs out of philly for some reason, but from the combiner I think if there is enough power I could get WNET....
> 
> 
> enough power being the key there....



There's a lot of "weather" in the area today. It's about 4:20 now and there's lightning, thunder, rain and heavy cloud cover just north of the city. So, if you're experiment doesn't work right away, you might want to check weather.com to see what the current conditions are before you give up.


WNET signal strength here is running at bout 90% of what CBS, NBC and ABC are, so if you can get CBS, NBC or ABC from NYC, you just might get NET as well.


/steve


----------



## dturturro

Getting WNET-DT here in Nassau (28 miles from ESB) at about 68%. This is roughly the same signal strength as UPN and WB. The big four come in in the high 80s to low 90s.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Combiner up and running or this thread hitting 200 pages? Which will come first?



170 pages and WNET crosses the finish line!


----------



## netman

hmmm... zero on 61 here in Deer Park.


----------



## ziggy60

Can I get the silver sensor anywhere near SI to try? Any stores carry them?


----------



## ykavs

I'm also receving signals on Channel 61 (mapped to 13-1,13-2,13-3) from 25 miles south of ESB.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ziggy60* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can I get the silver sensor anywhere near SI to try? Any stores carry them?



sears caries the zenith brand.


Terk and I think gemini have similar (if not identical ones) that some other big boxes might have too (i think cricuit city has the terk...)


----------



## Maggot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sluciani* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's a lot of "weather" in the area today. It's about 4:20 now and there's lightning, thunder, rain and heavy cloud cover just north of the city. So, if you're experiment doesn't work right away, you might want to check weather.com to see what the current conditions are before you give up.
> 
> 
> WNET signal strength here is running at bout 90% of what CBS, NBC and ABC are, so if you can get CBS, NBC or ABC from NYC, you just might get NET as well.
> 
> 
> /steve



====================================

I am scared!

Scared Alan Funt stayed alive ...just alive enough to orchestrate this shameful attempt to get my hopes up. Alan may well have been planning this as his coup de resistance: he may have begun the arrangements in 1978 when, having first learned of the future prospects predicted for HDTV, I declared -a bit too loudly, he was 200 mile away at the time- "Honey (I addressed my wife), the prospect of watching PBS programming in High Definition, for free , whenever I want, and on my huge flat HDTV "Made In America" that I'll have bought for about $200 and carried home in my bicycle's saddle bag... this will give me a reason to keep alive, even tho I'll be bald and dumb with a fat ugly wife. I will survive for this Honey!"


Well, back to Newtonian reality -terrestrial variety. My HDTV relies on a DT100 for its ATSC tuner... which gets signal from a Channelmaster roof Yagi and Winegard Pre-Amp.But reception here 40 miles due north of ESB is not great : even the ABC gladiator thing broke in and out of reception lock Tues nite.


Gosh, isn't this UHF type of ATSC bitstream propagated via line-of -sight?

I don't think I can actually see ESB from my roof-.. maybe that's why Funt is laughing at me?


Well, that's not really polite, nor fair!

Hey..YOU! UP there! Aren't you FUNT?? Yeah yeah Haw haw.

Listen here: At least My wife isn't fat or ugly. Mr Funt !!! So there's one in yer bleedin' eye!!"


-"Oh ...Mister?"

"What now, Mr Funt?"

"You forgot to say Yet.. She's not Fat n Ugly ..YET"

"OK, Point taken. I can live with that.

Besides, she has redeeming virtues:... she's still married to *Me*- after 28 years!!"


----------



## netman

you one wacky dude maggot


----------



## MLM

Isn't anyone going to point out the obvious? That is, that Thirteen is only broadcasting some national PBS feeds, and not the actual WNET programming.


Does anyone have any insight into when (or whether) we will receive the Channel 13 programming, including the cultural programming that seems to go to the rest of the country in wide screen high def?


Actually much of the WNET-DT programming is duplicative of some of what has been going out on WNJN-DT for quite a while. For those who don't receive WNJN-DT they broadcast the regular schedule in SD, and do the PBS Kids and PBS You (and a local feed) during the day and broadcast the regular schedule and a PBS High Def feed during the evenings. The latter is repeated for a full week.


So the WNET-DT is better, but . . .


Mel


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sluciani* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Strong signal in Westchester County as well, about 20 miles north. I'm getting an 80 out of 100 as of 3PM Wednesday, the 29th. At the same time, I'm getting 90 or a little higher on CBS, NBC and ABC.



Channel 61's signal in the mid-30's at 9AM Thursday. Guess they're working the kinks out.


/steve


----------



## trumpace




MLM said:


> Isn't anyone going to point out the obvious? That is, that Thirteen is only broadcasting some national PBS feeds, and not the actual WNET programming.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any insight into when (or whether) we will receive the Channel 13 programming, including the cultural programming that seems to go to the rest of the country in wide screen high def?
> 
> 
> I've been able to pick up WNET's digital transmissions on channel 13-0, but only on an occasional basis. I'm referring to the same programming as on their analog feed.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else been able to do this?


----------



## RZ

Strong signals using both an attic ant. on one unit and the silver sensor on another hd unit.


Now if we can only get the WNET original feeds, that would be perfect.


----------



## Ken Ross

When I first scanned for WNET last night, I couldn't receive it. I could see the tuner (Sony HD200) saw it but just couldn't lock it in. I pulled out an old Radio Shack UHF/VHF amp and hooked it up. My next scan immediately locked it in. So my adivce to those that are having trouble, consider getting a cheap UHF amp. Your system may just need to kick up the signal a couple of db to get a lock.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The latest round of new channel allocations for the NY DMA are as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> This, and the previous round of allocation requests did not include WCBS-DT.
> 
> WCBS-DT will not be able to use either channel 2 or channel56 and must wait until the FCC
> 
> can see what channels will be available in the market.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary



WCBS can use Channel 2, but they would not like to. They elected not to choose a channel at this time to see what will be available at the next selection opportunity.


Apart from Channel 2 being a bad frequency for any type of TV, CBS has built a wide-band antenna that serves any UHF channel, but only UHF -- no good for VHF.


They will pick a channel between 2 and 51 (they have to!) but have not chosen one yet. They might choose one of the vacated UHF DTV channels in their market.


----------



## trumpace




trumpace said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MLM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Isn't anyone going to point out the obvious? That is, that Thirteen is only broadcasting some national PBS feeds, and not the actual WNET programming.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any insight into when (or whether) we will receive the Channel 13 programming, including the cultural programming that seems to go to the rest of the country in wide screen high def?
> 
> 
> I've been able to pick up WNET's digital transmissions on channel 13-0, but only on an occasional basis. I'm referring to the same programming as on their analog feed.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else been able to do this?
Click to expand...


----------



## hphase

WNET only provides the HDTV signal provided by PBS. It is NOT the same as what WNET-13 transmits.


13-0 is a channel designation for their analog NTSC channel when it is listed in the DTV program guide when (if?) it is transmitted on WNET-DT. 13-0 is NOT a channel that is transmitted by WNET-DT. DTV channels start at 13-1, and can include additional channel numbers if the station chooses to "multicast."


Coincidentally, the WNET production of "A Capitol Fourth" will air in HD on July 4th on WNET-DT and any other station that is transmitting the PBS DTV feed.


----------



## trumpace

Thanks.

That explains why I can pick up 13-0 on my STB LG4200A and not on my Zenith HDV1420.


----------



## HDntheCity

greetings all,


i'm late posting 'cus i've been busy at work the last 2 days but welcome WNET-DT! so they are on the combiner? i'm getting a 93 signal(steady) on my Sammy TS160 but with regular dropouts--actually total loss of signal for about 1-2 min. i'm on W. 40th. St. just off 9th Ave. using a Silver Sensor & a T-USA 10db amp. the SS is at 1st floor level. lo power or not 13-1 is coming in better than 9-1. i think i'm getting a reflected signal as i notice the dropouts seem to coincide with the bus & truck traffic on 40th St. FYI i've almost never been able to pull in WABC-DT since they went on the combiner. i can get pretty much every thing else-even 41-1 and 68-1(at least some days.) i've also got the Radio Shack double-bowtie UHF antenna(the one that looks like a grille cover) might try that when i have a spare moment tho i doubt it will make much difference. BTW "A Capitol Fourth" in HD sounds great! anyone know if WNBC will show the Macy's fireworks show in HD?


jim


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, Macy's 4th of July show will be in HDTV!


Gary


----------



## HDntheCity

thanks Gary!! that should rock the house!!!



jim


----------



## Ten Midgets

Okay I'm a bit confused. Do I have a OTA antenna built into my 3 LNB oval dish? I get all the locals in HD but I did not buy anything seperate aside from the oval sat dish. Sorry if this is a dumb question...but if you could fill me in I would appreciate it.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ten Midgets* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay I'm a bit confused. Do I have a OTA antenna built into my 3 LNB oval dish? I get all the locals in HD but I did not buy anything seperate aside from the oval sat dish. Sorry if this is a dumb question...but if you could fill me in I would appreciate it.



There's no OTA antenna built in to the Phase III dish. Do you have a clip on antenna on the dish? D* provides the four major networks over their satellite feeds on channels 80, 82, 86 & 88. Check your channel numbers to see if that's what you're getting.


----------



## Ten Midgets

I've seen the clip - I don't have it, never bought one. All I have is the dish itself on my roof and about 6 months ago I began to receive CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC all digitally in brilliant HD. I thought it was just a D* upgrade or something to do with the antenna going up on the Empire State bldg.


----------



## TVjazzman

No useable reception 32 miles out in Rockland County for WNET 13-1 - reception under 46%, not useable signal level, no picture no audio.


Humidity and propagation aren't helping either...


TVJazzman


----------



## rockaway1836

I'm getting fluctuation between 10 and 20%, also here in Rockland


----------



## dan57

I was getting WNET 13-1 through 3 strong here in E Brunswick last night. I watched most of Soundstage with Michael McDonald and thorougly enjoyed it. I actually got better reception on WNET than I do on any of the NJN broadcasts, with only a few momentary breakups.


My HD OTA world is now complete!!


----------



## netman

I checked again last night and can not get WNET OTA. All the NY channels come in very good for me but no joy on WNET. I get them from cable so it is no big deal but it I did expect to see at least a weak signal.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, Macy's 4th of July show will be in HDTV!
> 
> 
> Gary




Are you sure? Titan is not listing it in HD.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was getting WNET 13-1 through 3 strong here in E Brunswick last night. I watched most of Soundstage with Michael McDonald and thorougly enjoyed it. I actually got better reception on WNET than I do on any of the NJN broadcasts, with only a few momentary breakups.
> 
> 
> My HD OTA world is now complete!!




Did you have to "adjust"/rotate your antenna for the WNET signal at all compared to the other ESB signals?? Just curious, because on BOTH of my antenna setups I can peg 100% on the signals from the ESB....but the WNET signal is low....REAL LOW with no visible/audio locking. I'm going to *assume* with the *perceived* lower signal strength compared to the other ESB stations and the fact that I'm in a deathzone height wise (17 feet ASL??) that WNET is not in the cards for me...yet. But, judging from what I'm reading, there's no programming differences vs. the WNJN HD feed (i.e. it's the PBS national HD feed?)


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you sure? Titan is not listing it in HD.



Titan is wrong!


Gary is right!


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MLM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Isn't anyone going to point out the obvious? That is, that Thirteen is only broadcasting some national PBS feeds, and not the actual WNET programming.



I assumed WNET would be carrying its regular channel 13 SD prgram schedule on 13.2 or 13.3. This doesn't seem to be the case, however. Every time I've checked, what was playing on 13 was not playing on 13.2 or 13.3. I wonder what their plans are?


/steve


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you have to "adjust"/rotate your antenna for the WNET signal at all compared to the other ESB signals?? Just curious, because on BOTH of my antenna setups I can peg 100% on the signals from the ESB....but the WNET signal is low....REAL LOW with no visible/audio locking.




Jay, I had no need to rotate.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Jay, I had no need to rotate.



Reminds me of the old days....when people a town over would be able to get some of the Philly locals nice and clear....and I couldn't even get a sniff!!!


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Titan is wrong!
> 
> 
> Gary is right!




Excellent!


----------



## rockaway1836

I just changed my antenna mast from a 5 footer to a 10 footer. My signal went from a 10-20 all the way to a very watchable 69%.


----------



## Steve L

Happy to report this evening that in lower Westchester, WNET DT was in the high 80's (out of 100). Still below the big 4 networks, however. They were all in the low to mid 90's. I'm using a Winegard 8-bay with a pre-amp mounted on the roof. Believe I'm about 20 miles NNE of the ESB.


/steve


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rockaway1836* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just changed my antenna mast from a 5 footer to a 10 footer. My signal went from a 10-20 all the way to a very watchable 69%.



Man, impressive, are you clearing trees with the height or are you just higher up on the curve of the earth?


Who did you use to mount the replacement mast? Anyone local you recommend?


I'm mounted on the side of the house clearing the roof, I extend past the roof by 5-7 feet, but wonder if going higher might help me in relation to the Empire State building.


I also have a grove of trees about 150 feet away, but I think it does effect my reception.


----------



## rockaway1836

Well, the closest really tall tree in my line of sight is also about 150ft away. I didn't think it was a problem, because I had strong signals from the other channels (80s-90s) Now the others are in the 90s and a couple are hitting 100%. So I guess that extra 5 ft made a big difference. My antenna is on a tripod mount on the peak of the roof ridge. I did the work myself, so it only cost me about $15 to buy the mast at Lowes. I'm at the corner of Kings Hwy and Kings Ct. (across from St Paul's School) If you want to feel free to drive by and take a look. I'm easy to find, I'm the only one with a giant antenna on the roof! lol


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rockaway1836* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, the closest really tall tree in my line of sight is also about 150ft away. I didn't think it was a problem, because I had strong signals from the other channels (80s-90s) Now the others are in the 90s and a couple are hitting 100%. So I guess that extra 5 ft made a big difference. My antenna is on a tripod mount on the peak of the roof ridge. I did the work myself, so it only cost me about $15 to buy the mast at Lowes. I'm at the corner of Kings Hwy and Kings Ct. (across from St Paul's School) If you want to feel free to drive by and take a look. I'm easy to find, I'm the only one with a giant antenna on the roof! lol



Wow, I must be doing something wrong if your getting 80's and 90's and even 100's.

I'm going to go to Lowes and pick up and mast and see if I can gain some height... What antenna and what pre-amp are you using? I have an 8 bow antenna and the best weingard pre-amp and only since the combiner have i been able to get usable numbers...


----------



## rockaway1836

The antenna is a deep fringe VHF/UHF Channel Master, the pre-amp is a Winegard. Sorry I installed them over a year ago and just don't remember the model numbers. But I do remember the antenna had the most UHF gain that I could get my hands on. Same goes for the pre-amp. When you go to Lowe's the masts are tie wrapped to the uprights. I walked by them twice before seeing them.......Rich


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sluciani* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Happy to report this evening that in lower Westchester, WNET DT was in the high 80's (out of 100). Still below the big 4 networks, however. They were all in the low to mid 90's. I'm using a Winegard 8-bay with a pre-amp mounted on the roof. Believe I'm about 20 miles NNE of the ESB.
> 
> 
> /steve



I've got the same antenna, amp and pre-amp in Northern Westchester and I've got barely a blip of yellow on the meter from WNET-DT. Oh, well. That's the difference a few miles makes, I guess.


----------



## Alexvd

I have posted before on this but I still cannot completely get this worked out.


I live in Mountainside, NJ 07092. About 20 miles from Combiner


I have a Zenith DTV 1080 HDTV D*TV box

Channel Master 4228 Mounted on 10ft mast, mounted to roof of 2 story home.

Channel Master 7775 pre-amp

Everything connected with RG6 QS and Paladin Sealtite Pro Connectors


I originally started out with RS Double bow tie, then I moved to zenith silver sensor and Radio Shack pre-amp (catv, tv 15db). These configurations still gave me issues with dropout. The dropout always occurs when cars drive by so I bit the bullet and mounted a Channel Master 4228 on the roof and the RS preamp connected inside the house at the tuner. This was during the winter and I still got some dropout when cars drove by but it was greatly improved. As spring approached my signal became poor. So I purchased the Channel Master Pre-amp. The signal improved once again so I left the pre-amp at the tuner. I still got dropout only on Channel 2-1 when cars drove near. So I went to the roof used my compass to tune exactly to the antenna web location and mounted pre-amp to the antenna mast with the power supply indoors. Signals didnt really improve across the board in fact I have much more signal fluctuation.


So tonight I read through archives that said to use attenuator. I have a 6dsb attenuator, so I tried it out. It did lower the signal on some channels but it also made the other higher signal channels 5-1,7-1,9-1,11-1 have less fluctuation and drop out when cars drove by.


So now I have lower signal on 4-1 with no dropouts but 2-1 is very low and fluctuates wildly when cars drive past.


I have another 10ft mast that I could use to raise the antenna higher but I am worried it may wobble around. Once the leaves are gone I know that I will have no issues but I need to have this improved now. If its the leaves then why do I have issues when cars drive by?


Is thier anything I can do to fix this?


I have tried to rotate the antenna but when I do this it will increase 2.1 but then kill 7.1.


I don't think I can really by anything else.


Oh BTW. When I switched to the UHF only Titan Pre-amp from the Radio Shack Preamp. I lost 8-1,8-5 58.1-5


Are those VHF?


----------



## SnellKrell

I can only answer your easy question.


Digital Channel 8, which is remapped as Channel 58, is indeed, VHF - not UHF.

I know, that's only part of your problem.


I wish you well.


Gary


----------



## netman

Alexvd,


First I will repeat what I have said more times than I can count: with an antenna as directional as this you should have a rotor. Many aiming problems can't be fixed with a compass and a trip to the roof. I would urge you to get a rotor and install it.


What I would do, also, is tune in analog UHF stations from the ESB and see what happens when cars drive by. Do you see ghosting? If you are getting reflections from cars some things that may help could be:


Change direction

less gain (remove pre-amp)

more height


Use analog stations as a cheap test instrument. They can show the signal quality. Ghosts are much worse than a little snow. If you see ghosting work to eliminate it. You might find a slight change of direction that works great even if not aiming exactly to the ESB.


Receivers vary in how well they deal with this problem. Can you borrow another receiver and compare performance?


----------



## netman

I really enjoyed the fireworks on NBC but I wish they showed more fireworks and less audience and orchestra. I already know what those things look like. Otherwise very nice on my 96" screen.


Thanks again ,Gary, for the heads up which NBC never mentioned anywhere I looked.


----------



## Alexvd

netman,


Thanks for the reply. Yes I do have other another HDTV tuner. They are the PCHDTV cards with the OREN chip. I think these are a newer generation chip than the DTV1080.


I will try that.


A rotor seems like such a PIA. Will autorotate when I tune to specific channels. My wife would never rotate it manually.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really enjoyed the fireworks on NBC but I wish they showed more fireworks and less audience and orchestra. I already know what those things look like. Otherwise very nice on my 96" screen.
> 
> 
> Thanks again ,Gary, for the heads up which NBC never mentioned anywhere I looked.



i was glad NBC aired the Macy's show in HD but once again they dropped the ball on audio with a lame Dolby 3-ch soundtrack!!! difference was obvious when i watched the Denver fireworks show after the Rapids-Wizards match on HDnet--that DD 5.1 audio ROCKED.


jim


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDntheCity* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ..they dropped the ball on audio with a lame Dolby 3-ch soundtrack!!!
> 
> 
> jim




Yep. Noticed it too. 5.1 would have been great. At least I had the sounds from my neighborhood which added a bit to the experience.


----------



## SnellKrell

And all of the NY Pops' both music and video were pre-recorded.


Gary


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alexvd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A rotor seems like such a PIA. Will autorotate when I tune to specific channels. My wife would never rotate it manually.



It is not so much that you will need to move the antenna for each station, though that could happen. It is more getting the initial setup is miles easier when you can sit in front of the receiver with the rotor and find the spot that works best. I never have to move my antenna for any of the NY stations but it made the initial setup great and diagnosing reception issues easier. I really hope you don't end up with different "hot spots" for the stations since I totally agree that would be a pia.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And all of the NY Pops' both music and video were pre-recorded.
> 
> 
> Gary



I had to keep tuning away while Mariah lip-synced. NOT a Mariah fan.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is not so much that you will need to move the antenna for each station, though that could happen. It is more getting the initial setup is miles easier when you can sit in front of the receiver with the rotor and find the spot that works best. I never have to move my antenna for any of the NY stations but it made the initial setup great and diagnosing reception issues easier. I really hope you don't end up with different "hot spots" for the stations since I totally agree that would be a pia.



I can't agree more! After I got the rotor installed I was able to measure the SS of each channel in all of the different positions and find a nice position which allows me to pull in NJN out of Jersey, all the ESB stations and WLIW out of Garden City.


----------



## Signalseeker

Hello All: Does anyone know if WNET is broadcasting at full power? If so I 'm screwed. I get at best 44% signal. I get every station in the upper 80's - low 90's except WPIX, WNBC and now WNET. I can't even get the TV to find WNBC. I believe it must be the transmission pattern WNBC uses. Does anyone know where to find a good listing of station information i.e. power, lat./long. etc.? I know one of the members (sangs??) here was working on a website with all this type of info but I have lost that link. Thank you.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I have some questions about WNET channel 13.


Have they actually gone up on the combiner? Last night, I decided to check 13-1 (I'm using a DirecTV HR10-250 HDTivo) as I do ever so often just to check if I can finally pick it up, and it was coming in. Finally! The only problem was that the signal was fluctuating wildly from 0 to around 66. As you can probably guess, it was unwatchable with constant freezes and dropouts.


I was optimistic, because that was the first time I had ever gotten _anything_ from that channel. So this morning, I checked it again (while they were running _BooBah_, and it was coming in with a much more stable signal which was holding steady at about 67. The only problem was the picture was blinking all the time. Eventually the problem with the picture was fixed, and 13-1 (as well as the sub-channels) was coming in clearly, strongly, and steadily. But then I lost the signal altogether. That is where I stand now, unable to pick up WNET at all,once again, OTA.


Are they working on the signal or something? Is anyone else unable to pick up the signal at the moment, or is it just me? Right now, there is something recording on my Tivo, but when that is finished I will reset the unit and re-scan for OTA to see if that will do anything.


----------



## Alexvd

netman,


Good advice on the rotor for setup. Interesting update, I now have full power signal with no dropouts on 2-1. A little lower on 4.1 but 2.1 is rock solid.


The interesting part is I didn't change a thing. It did however rain heavily last night and the leaves are still saturated. I think the branches are dipping giving me better LOS. Is this possible. I guess the only way to confirm is to wait until it gets dry.


----------



## SnellKrell

Here are some answers:


WNBC-DT's signal is omnidirectional.


WNET's authorized maximum power is only 12.4Kw, the weakest signal coming from the ESB Combiner - and to make things worse, it transmits at the highest frequency, Channel 61 - making the low power level even a bigger problem!


I haven't found one up to date, correct listing of digital stations. All the ones that I have seen, including the FCC's site, continue to show some transmission sites pre-Combiner, which do not reflect current power levels.


Gary


----------



## vinnyv07

Gary....is WNET at max power now? Does anyone know if they are operating at max power? I'm able to watch WNET but I have some dropouts. It is better than what I had before...which is nothing. NOVA looks great and Im very happy, but I was just wondering if they were operating at their full 12.4Kw.


----------



## SnellKrell

I am not sure, but I believe the station is at full power.


But, full power at 12.4Kw transmitting on Channel 61 is very low to begin with.


Gary


----------



## GoldenBoy

Are they actually broadcasting at the moment? I've not been able to pick it up since this morning when I was getting it at a steady 67 signal strength, and then it went black again.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Never mind. I should've checked before I posted again. I just tried 13-1 again and it is in fact coming in, but now the signal is much lower than it was this morning. It's fluctuating between ~ 44 and 47. That's 20 points lower than it was this morning when I checked it, before it went out.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, but the reception is so bad that I can hardly lock on!


Gary


----------



## GoldenBoy

Well, WNET is gone for me again. I really hope this is not how the situation will remain and that these problems are only due to them still going up on the combiner and tweaking their signal or something. I'm not optimistic.


----------



## sebenste




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alexvd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have posted before on this but I still cannot completely get this worked out.
> 
> 
> Oh BTW. When I switched to the UHF only Titan Pre-amp from the Radio Shack Preamp. I lost 8-1,8-5 58.1-5
> 
> 
> Are those VHF?



Yes, as others have said. But, the CM 7775 preamp does not allow VHF signals to pass through it at all, much less amplify it. The CM 7777 does; that's what you want.


----------



## SnellKrell

Now, the synch between video and audio on 13.1 is totally out.


I'm amazed that we are still in the infancy of digital transmission after all the years that it's been in use.


By this time, I would have thought and expected that stations and networks would have gotten their acts together.


Gary


Very frustrating and strange.


Gary


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, this next show's synch seems to be a bit better - but still "rubbery."


Strangely, it helps to have distractingly beuatful pictures to divert your attention from technical ineptitude!


Gary


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, this next show's synch seems to be a bit better - but still "rubbery."
> 
> 
> Strangely, it helps to have distractingly beuatful pictures to divert your attention from technical ineptitude!
> 
> 
> Gary




I have been watching for some time via cable and they (WNET) DO have an occasional show with a sync issue. I wonder if it is them or the PBS feed. As you say, many times it is not much of an issue since the shows are largely narratives but still......


----------



## GoldenBoy

WNET is completely out for me again this morning. If this is how it's going to be with WNET-DT, then my initial elation has sunken to disappointment. Yesterday, the signal was flaky all day. At time it was fluctuating wildly and dropping out constantly, at other times it was out completely. There were times when the signal was solid, peaking at 73 and staying around 71, and was able to watch without troubles, but then it would go black while still showing a 71 signal strength.


I have two HR10-250's (in addition to other DirecTV HD STB's) and last night I was watching _History Detectives_ on the one downstairs before dinner. When I finished and went upstairs to catch the rest of the show, I put on the receiver and it was just black. It was still registering a 71 signal strength and my A/V receiver was showing that it was receiving a 5.1 signal, but there was no sound and no picture. I even 'rewound' the Tivo to see if there was anything there, but it was all black. I don't know what this problem could be, considering I watched it on one HR10-250 with no problem.


I'm down about this whole thing. I've been waiting to get WNET HD forever, and now they finally go up on the combiner, and it's so unreliable. As I finish typing this, I am still getting no signal from WNET.


----------



## vinnyv07

Im in Staten Island and I just have enough sig for a stable picture for WNETHD. I get the occasional dropout...but I can watch a half hour show without many problems. I have the VOOM receiver hooked up to a non-powered Ant....on a mast of about 10ft tall.


----------



## GoldenBoy

I just reset my receiver - yet again - and suddenly 13-1 (WNET) was coming in with a strong signal. What could be causing it to work this way on my receiver?


----------



## cjp2004

I live about 35 miles from the ESB in Deer Park, NY and I installed a 42 XG antenna from Antennas Direct in June 2004. It is on a 10 foot mast on my roof with a cable run (RG-6) of about 40 ft. Back then I was able to get 2-1, 5-1, and 7-1 with very strong signals. When 9-1 and 11-1 started broadcasting on the combiner I received them with with strong signals. However, since 7-1 moved to the combiner, I now get a weak signal and there are lots of breakups and mostly no picture at all. Also 11-1 is very unreliable, many times I get no picture. I still get 2-1 and 5-1 reliably and never was able to receive 4-1.


I was thinking of getting a new antenna with a preamp since it seems that many people on Long Island are receiving these channels with no problems. Any suggestions from anyone? I called LNL in Syosset and they have a no refund policy on antennas and preamps.


----------



## GoldenBoy

I just determined, that if I tune the tuner on my HR10-250 to certain DirecTV Sat. channels, for example 231, Food Network, then try to tune in WNET-DT (13-1 through 13-3) I get a no signal message. If I then tune in to another satellite channel such as DirecTV 13 (WNET) and tune it back to 13-1 the signal comes in. Does anyone care to take a guess as to why that might be?


----------



## GoldenBoy

I wonder if I should call DirecTV about this? The last time I had a problem like this was when UPN went on the combiner. Suddenly ABC-DT (7-1) would not tune in on the HR10-250, but it would only come through on, I believe it was channel 63(?). That channel, however, would not show up in my All Channels list, nor would it appear in the guide and no matter how many times I scanned for it, it would not add it to the channel list. The weird thing was, on my two Hughes HTL-HD's, everything was working perfectly. Not only was ABC-DT coming through at 7-1, but it was also coming through on the other channel. When I called DirecTV, they gave me the run around about how it's not their problem because it's an OTA issue. I stood firm saying it _was_ their problem, because it was their receiver which was not behaving properly and it was _they_ who were re-mapping the channels. Eventually I was bumped up to a 'higher' level of CS, where I was told they would 'look into it', but that they hadn't had any complaints from anyone else in my area with this same unit.


To cut a long story short , the very next day it was all working properly, and I hadn't had any problems like that until now.


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoldenBoy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just determined, that if I tune the tuner on my HR10-250 to certain DirecTV Sat. channels, for example 231, Food Network, then try to tune in WNET-DT (13-1 through 13-3) I get a no signal message. If I then tune in to another satellite channel such as DirecTV 13 (WNET) and tune it back to 13-1 the signal comes in. Does anyone care to take a guess as to why that might be?



GoldenBoy, I have a HR10-250 also and I am having the same problem. I have adjusted my Antenna several times and the most I can get is fluctuation between 50-60 on the second tuner, I get 10-30 on the First tuner. That is why sometimes I get No picture at all, it depends what tuner I am on.


I dont understand why this is happening, All of my other OTA channels come in at 90-95 with no problems whatsoever. Im thinking they must be Just testing right now and Eventually it will come in as strong as the other one's do, it should since its on the same combiner. When ABC first went on the combiner I remember it took a few weeks before I got a Strong Signal.


I would forget about it and give it a few more weeks, dont drive yourself crazy over this, I am disappointed also. Hopefully by August we will be able to Fully enjoy WNET-HD


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjp2004* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live about 35 miles from the ESB in Deer Park, NY and I installed a 42 XG antenna from Antennas Direct in June 2004. It is on a 10 foot mast on my roof with a cable run (RG-6) of about 40 ft. Back then I was able to get 2-1, 5-1, and 7-1 with very strong signals. When 9-1 and 11-1 started broadcasting on the combiner I received them with with strong signals. However, since 7-1 moved to the combiner, I now get a weak signal and there are lots of breakups and mostly no picture at all. Also 11-1 is very unreliable, many times I get no picture. I still get 2-1 and 5-1 reliably and never was able to receive 4-1.
> 
> 
> I was thinking of getting a new antenna with a preamp since it seems that many people on Long Island are receiving these channels with no problems. Any suggestions from anyone? I called LNL in Syosset and they have a no refund policy on antennas and preamps.



I am in Deer Park (near the high school). I have an 8 bay bow tie (channelmaster 4228) and a 7775 preamp (also C.M.). They are not very high; perhaps 12' above a ranch house. It works very well for CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, WOR, WPIX and WLIW (and some others I don't ever watch) but not, yet, for WNET. I must get WNET from cable.


The antenna setup is certainly not overkill for the job.


You need to keep in mind that just to the west is some rather higher ground which does not help NYC reception.


Also: I saw no change in signals when ABC went on the combiner.


I would suggest you check your antenna direction and install a pre-amp at the antenna before you assume what you have is not working. In the end you may want more antenna but it may be something simpler.


BTW: when an antenna claims 50 mile reception they usually mean with a tailwind!


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bs77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> GoldenBoy, I have a HR10-250 also and I am having the same problem. I have adjusted my Antenna several times and the most I can get is fluctuation between 50-60 on the second tuner, I get 10-30 on the First tuner. That is why sometimes I get No picture at all, it depends what tuner I am on.
> 
> 
> I dont understand why this is happening, All of my other OTA channels come in at 90-95 with no problems whatsoever. Im thinking they must be Just testing right now and Eventually it will come in as strong as the other one's do, it should since its on the same combiner. When ABC first went on the combiner I remember it took a few weeks before I got a Strong Signal.
> 
> 
> I would forget about it and give it a few more weeks, dont drive yourself crazy over this, I am disappointed also. Hopefully by August we will be able to Fully enjoy WNET-HD



I don't know if this will work for you - I have my antenna cable running through a ground loop filter because I was having problems with noise coming through my sound system a couple of years ago. Last night I changed the coaxial cable between the filter and the HR10-250's antenna in. Apparently that did the trick, because the tuning problems are gone, and I'm registering a consistent 73 - 78 signal strength at the moment. I must have had faulty coax cable which didn't manifest any problems until WNET went online.


I would also suggest that, if you have a VCR or some other sort of unit between the antenna and the HR10-250 that you remove it. At one point, about a year ago, I'd inserted a VCR into the signal chain and it caused me woes.


I guess the moral of this story is - check all your connections and cables, if you haven't already.


As of this morning, I have no problems with WNET. I'm just glad I've been home from work while this was going on, otherwise it may have taken me weeks to get around to figuring it out.


----------



## bs77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoldenBoy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if this will work for you - I have my antenna cable running through a ground loop filter because I was having problems with noise coming through my sound system a couple of years ago. Last night I changed the coaxial cable between the filter and the HR10-250's antenna in. Apparently that did the trick, because the tuning problems are gone, and I'm registering a consistent 73 - 78 signal strength at the moment. I must have had faulty coax cable which didn't manifest any problems until WNET went online.
> 
> 
> I would also suggest that, if you have a VCR or some other sort of unit between the antenna and the HR10-250 that you remove it. At one point, about a year ago, I'd inserted a VCR into the signal chain and it caused me woes.
> 
> 
> I guess the moral of this story is - check all your connections and cables, if you haven't already.
> 
> 
> As of this morning, I have no problems with WNET. I'm just glad I've been home from work while this was going on, otherwise it may have taken me weeks to get around to figuring it out.



Thanks for the suggestions, Yes I have checked and all my cables are fine. I actually have a direct run from my attic installed CM double bow antenna into a splitter going to 2 Hr10-250's. As I have said all my other OTA stations come in between 90-95, but Wnet is now all over the place bouncing between 20-50, I can no longer lock in. I have tried re-positioning my antenna to no avail. I will just wait out the summer and check again in late august. I have been without this channel for a Long time, a month or so longer wont be any problem. Just as long as I have the major networks I will be OK


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bs77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions, Yes I have checked and all my cables are fine. I actually have a direct run from my attic installed CM double bow antenna into a splitter going to 2 Hr10-250's. As I have said all my other OTA stations come in between 90-95, but Wnet is now all over the place bouncing between 20-50, I can no longer lock in. I have tried re-positioning my antenna to no avail. I will just wait out the summer and check again in late august. I have been without this channel for a Long time, a month or so longer wont be any problem. Just as long as I have the major networks I will be OK



I've got direct runs going from my rooftop antenna to all 8 televisions in my house. I don't know what antenna I have, because it was installed about 11 years ago when I first got DirecTV (when they didn't carry local channels) and I didn't know much about these things at the time. I know the co. that did the installation claimed the antenna they were giving me was the most powerful one they had at the time. All of the OTA channels I pick up register from the low 70's to upper 80's.


WNET, since I swapped the cable, has been registering in the mid to upper 70's for me, peaking at 81. Last night, however, while I was trying to watch Nature at 8:00 P.M., it was unwatchable. The picture kept breaking up and the audio was dropping out every few seconds. The unusual thing about that was, the signal when I tested it was holding steady in the high 70's.


----------



## GoldenBoy

WNET has been horrible for me since yesterday evening. Freezing up every few seconds or so, I cannot watch it. What I don't understand is, the signal strength is very strong - peaking at 81 and dropping no lower than 74 - so why is it freezing up all the time? Are they doing something with the signal, or is there some sort of interference that is causing the data to arrive corrupt?


----------



## rockaway1836

I am having some slight pixelation but not too bad. One of my sets is showing signal of 62. On the other one I bypassed my D receiver and and am using the sets built in tuner. There I am showing 9 of a possible 11 bars. (no numeric value available on this set) Same pixelation on both sets. The best I ever got was 69, which isn't at all bad from where I am.....Rich


----------



## GoldenBoy

I am still having problems with WNET, although it did seem to have settled down a bit this morning. I was only getting the occasional pixelated dropout. The signal strength is still registering the same as well.


----------



## gpcopy

For me its a different story every day. One day pixilation and dropouts and on another hours without any problems. On top of that, it alternates between stations. One day WNBC is great and on another very bad. Same for FOX, CBS,WB and UPN. All my stations come mainly from the same direction only 5 to 10 degree difference and less than 20 miles away. I have a RCA rooftop antenna its about 15 years old with a coax cable which can be found at a Home Depot. I have a Panasonic TU-DST51 decoder box and behind that I have a signal amp and adjustable attenuator to help reduce the pixilation problems which it does work. I just wonder if the 100 foot oak trees are causing some of my problems and I mean 100 yards of woods before a clearing from those tall trees. Hopefully it will improve by 2006.


GPCOPY


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gpcopy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For me its a different story every day. One day pixilation and dropouts and on another hours without any problems. On top of that, it alternates between stations. One day WNBC is great and on another very bad. Same for FOX, CBS,WB and UPN. All my stations come mainly from the same direction only 5 to 10 degree difference and less than 20 miles away. I have a RCA rooftop antenna its about 15 years old with a coax cable which can be found at a Home Depot. I have a Panasonic TU-DST51 decoder box and behind that I have a signal amp and adjustable attenuator to help reduce the pixilation problems which it does work. I just wonder if the 100 foot oak trees are causing some of my problems and I mean 100 yards of woods before a clearing from those tall trees. Hopefully it will improve by 2006.
> 
> 
> GPCOPY



15 years ago there was not a whole lot of call for an antenna with good gain in the UHF band. You may want to think about updating your antenna. I am in Rockland Co. NY and am having no problem at all with the other networks. What signal strengths are you showing? The tree could be a problem, if it's blowing in the breeze it could account for all your variation too I supose.


----------



## LINDELLTOM

HI, maybe someone could answer this question, here goes. Channel 13 recently has finally gone HD for Long Islanders OTA. all of their programming so far has captions which is wonderful as my wife has severe hearing loss, why can't Directv do the same courtesy for the hearing impaired. I've called them several times to complain and all I get is double talk. I'm referring to their HD CHANNELS.


----------



## ARM07470




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rockaway1836* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 15 years ago there was not a whole lot of call for an antenna with good gain in the UFO band.



I don't think there's much call for them now, unless you're doing some SETI research!


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ARM07470* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think there's much call for them now, unless you're doing some SETI research!



How true ! My BAD







Thanks


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LINDELLTOM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HI, maybe someone could answer this question, here goes. Channel 13 recently has finally gone HD for Long Islanders OTA. all of their programming so far has captions which is wonderful as my wife has severe hearing loss, why can't Directv do the same courtesy for the hearing impaired. I've called them several times to complain and all I get is double talk. I'm referring to their HD CHANNELS.




2 issues here:


first D* doesnt own any of hte HD channels (yet) so they can only pass along what they are sold. I would hope there is some law that forces them to pass along any captioning provided by the channel. (i remember i situation a while ago with the first generation directivo's where the captioning was messed up. Someone posted how they complained to the the fcc and directv gave them a second generation box that fixed the issue before they were availible to the general public- so anecdotally it seems that they are required to ensure the captioning gets through)


second- assuming there is a law that says they must pass along any captioning- then the channel owners must not be providing it (and i'm dont think they have too?) I think you should ***** to the channels themselves. If the channels say they do captioning then i would look for someone at the fcc that can help it get straigntened out.


----------



## RMSko

My signal strength for the networks is typically in the 90-92 range, however, every 5-10 minutes it goes down to the low teens for about a second and then goes back up to the 90s. This even happens when there is little or no wind. Does anyone have any idea as to why this may be happening?


----------



## cpto

I've noticed the same thing a few times when planes or helicopters pass through my antenna's line-of-site to the ESB. The planes are from the Morristown airfield, so it doesn't happen often. FWIW, occasionally when a plane is taking off and the path is over my house, my 802.11 wireless connection has problems.


Signal blocking on the first? Radar on the second? Sheer chance? Can't tell. Probably some of the experienced technical people here can give a more definitive answer.


----------



## icemannyr

Finally I am able to tune in WPIX-DT as of the week and was wondering if you noticed the same thing on the video quality.

I am watching via the Fusion III card on a DVI 4:3 LCD Monitor.


The SD 4:3 upconvert looks like it has some edge enhancement on it.

The video and text tends to look soft, but it's not as bad as the WNYW-DT SD non FOX Network programming.


The WB-HD programming shot on film looks ok.

I can see the compression artifacts on the film grain.

The shows recorded with HD cameras look good.

The Mets PQ is great, I do notice allot of compression artifacts when the WB11 logo Animation passes by and when there is super fast camera movement.


----------



## HDntheCity

i would agree with pretty much all of the above. one ? iceman----. are you talking about network SD upconversion(which is in 4:3) or that & the local(i.e. WPIX-DT) sourced upconversion which is a semi-widescreen? if you notice the pillar bars are narrower. some call this a 14:9 AR. i agree it is indeed better than anything WNYW-DT puts out & is at least equal or better than any NY locals IMHO. WB News at Ten looks great OTA(& off topic Katy and Jim are very nice-used to have dinner at my old job regularly.) Smallville is usually the only show i watch on a regular basis & the only thing i notice that's a little off is the color seems a bit flushed at times(tho this may well be my display). glad you can get WPIX-DT now icemann---. enjoy!!!!



jim


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDntheCity* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i would agree with pretty much all of the above. one ? iceman----. are you talking about network SD upconversion(which is in 4:3) or that & the local(i.e. WPIX-DT) sourced upconversion which is a semi-widescreen? if you notice the pillar bars are narrower. some call this a 14:9 AR. i agree it is indeed better than anything WNYW-DT puts out & is at least equal or better than any NY locals IMHO. WB News at Ten looks great OTA(& off topic Katy and Jim are very nice-used to have dinner at my old job regularly.) Smallville is usually the only show i watch on a regular basis & the only thing i notice that's a little off is the color seems a bit flushed at times(tho this may well be my display). glad you can get WPIX-DT now icemann---. enjoy!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> jim



You're right about the colour in _Smallville_. There is definitely something wrong with it. It always looks very oversaturated to me.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Back onto the topic of WNET HD, I have given up on it entirely. I've decided there's less grief for me to consider it unobtainable, just as it has always been. Though it registers a very high and constant signal (~74 peaking at 81), the picture breaks up and the sound drops out frequently - every few seconds. It makes everything impossible to follow. I really don't understand what could be causing this. I have no problems like this with any other channel I can get OTA, and that includes _everything_ on the combiner.


----------



## SnellKrell

I really don't know why you get a high signal reading and still have reception problems.


The only thing that I can think of is the unique situation concerning WNET-DT.


The station transmits at the lowest strength of any television station on the ESB, and to complicate matters further, it has the highest channel assignment, 61, which makes things worse.


When the switchover of channels occurs, WNET-DT will be on channel 13, VHF digital.


I hope we don't have to wait until 2009!


Gary


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDntheCity* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i would agree with pretty much all of the above. one ? iceman----. are you talking about network SD upconversion(which is in 4:3) or that & the local(i.e. WPIX-DT) sourced upconversion which is a semi-widescreen? if you notice the pillar bars are narrower. some call this a 14:9 AR.
> 
> jim



The upconverstion I am talking about is the 4:3 pillared WPIX-TV local programming not the WB Network programming.


----------



## DonickCo

I live in Centereach, NY Suffolk county about 65 someodd miles from the city, by suffolk community college. is it worth it to get n antenna setup. If so what kind. I just bought an HDTV and I have the Directv Tivo (HR10-250) id like to receive some HD channels OTA bc I was told it's the best.

How many channels if any do u think ill get. Ps: I live on a hill.


Thanks


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DonickCo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Centereach, NY Suffolk county about 65 someodd miles from the city, by suffolk community college. is it worth it to get n antenna setup. If so what kind. I just bought an HDTV and I have the Directv Tivo (HR10-250) id like to receive some HD channels OTA bc I was told it's the best.
> 
> How many channels if any do u think ill get. Ps: I live on a hill.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Go to www.antennaweb.org put your address and zip code in and they will tell you what stations are available to you and also the kind of antenna needed. At your distance you will probably need a deep fringe with a pre-amp. The choice will then be whether you want a multi directional of directional antenna, and a VHF/UHF or a UHF only model.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DonickCo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Centereach, NY Suffolk county about 65 someodd miles from the city



According to my map program, Centereach is more like 45 air miles from the Empire State Building. You should be successful at that distance.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really don't know why you get a high signal reading and still have reception problems.



I know, I'm truly baffled and bewildered.



> Quote:
> When the switchover of channels occurs, WNET-DT will be on channel 13, VHF digital.
> 
> 
> I hope we don't have to wait until 2009!
> 
> 
> Gary



Indeed.


----------



## ANGEL 35

When will the switchover happen. I can not get WNET HD. IM about one mile from ESB I also cant get WNBC HD. I did have it but now its gone


----------



## SnellKrell

The legislation concerning stations giving up their analogue allocations and switching to digital is currently being negotiated .


Looks like the mandate will be that stations will have to changeover by 1/1/09.


Stations could voluntarily switch earlier. but it's doubtful.


Gary


----------



## michaelk

i would hope they were at a power closer to everyone else well before the switch.....


----------



## GoldenBoy

Amazingly, WNET-HD since yesterday afternoon has been coming in without any breakups/dropouts whatsoever for me. The signal strength is also still the same at ~74% - 81%.


I am wondering if perhaps there was someone broadcasting or doing something in that frequency that was causing interference with the WNET-HD signal for me? I recall when I first got DirecTV 11 years ago that I had a similar problem with a 'roaming' broadcaster that caused interference and made DirecTV unwatchable. At the time, I was one of only two people in the neighbourhood with DirecTV and was in direct contact with one of the V.P.'s at D* about the problem. Eventually they shut the offending 'broadcaster' down and I've had no problems since then.


----------



## dm145

Now that you can get WNETDT what will you be watching?


----------



## mikeny

Is anyone on Long Island getting WNET?


I don't more than a signal strength of 10-14.


Even NBC is in the mid 50s-mid 60s (at best)and WB is mid 50s (at best) which is pretty unreliable but better than NET which is zip. All the other stations are reliably in the 70s and 80s.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now that you can get WNETDT what will you be watching?



Assuming that the current stability is permanent, I will be happily watching Nature, Nova, Chefs A'field, DNA, Smart Travels (which I watch already on HDNet), Soundstage, and the Naked Planet series as well as whatever catches my fancy on Thirteen World (13-3).


I'm also looking forward to finally being able to see Great Performances in HD.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone on Long Island getting WNET?
> 
> 
> I don't more than a signal strength of 10-14.
> 
> 
> Even NBC is in the mid 50s-mid 60s (at best)and WB is mid 50s (at best) which is pretty unreliable but better than NET which is zip. All the other stations are reliably in the 70s and 80s.



I'm receiving WNET in Levittown.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone on Long Island getting WNET?
> 
> 
> I don't more than a signal strength of 10-14.
> 
> 
> Even NBC is in the mid 50s-mid 60s (at best)and WB is mid 50s (at best) which is pretty unreliable but better than NET which is zip. All the other stations are reliably in the 70s and 80s.



ANOTHER Levittown here. I get it most times.


Hey DTURTURRO what street you on? I'm on Sycamore near middle school and

Division Ave HS


----------



## vinnyv07

I didn't get a chance to check WNET in Staten Island yet, but I will as soon as I get home. For the last couple of days or so I stopped watching it because of the dropouts. I gave up.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinnyv07* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I didn't get a chance to check WNET in Staten Island yet, but I will as soon as I get home. For the last couple of days or so I stopped watching it because of the dropouts. I gave up.



I stopped watching because they rarely show HD programs. There programming is mostly upconverts, which when coupled with multi-casting, look very bad.


----------



## vinnyv07




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I stopped watching because they rarely show HD programs. There programming is mostly upconverts, which when coupled with multi-casting, look very bad.



Really? I have seen alot of shows on WNETHD that were HD and their HD looks really good to me. But I can tell the difference from their true HD programs from their upconverts. But I like alot of the shows that are on .....love NOVA. But since their dropout problem got worse , I stopped watching. I'm glad its better now. More HD is always a good thing.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinnyv07* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really? I have seen alot of shows on WNETHD that were HD and their HD looks really good to me. But I can tell the difference from their true HD programs from their upconverts. But I like alot of the shows that are on .....love NOVA. But since their dropout problem got worse , I stopped watching. I'm glad its better now. More HD is always a good thing.



Same here. I actually felt their upscaled material looked very good, certainly better than most of the other channel's upscaled materials (FOX anyone?).


----------



## GoldenBoy

So far, it's been three days for me of WNET-HD without any breakups or dropouts whatsoever. This is absolutely splendid.


----------



## GoldenBoy

BTW, can I assume that all of their programs listed as 'letterboxed' are upscaled and everything that says HDTV is, obviously, true HD?


----------



## mikeny

Thanks to mw390 & dturturro for your feedback. I'm in Lynbrook, not as far out as the two of you, yet obviously not getting as good as a signal from the ESB.


I'm considering switching to the Channelmaster 4228 with a pre-amp as it seems to be a popular and often successful combo. However, I have a huge tree in line with my current "boom style" antenna, mounted high on a chimney and I'm wondering if it'll make a difference.


The other issue is spending $400 to do this, as I was once quoted.


In line with the expense issue, does it pay, if D* is going to give all the local HD channels within a few months? (of course, that would only mean UPN, WB, & PBS on top of their current lineup)


If anyone knows of an installer for less than $400 please post or pm me. Thanks.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks to mw390 & dturturro for your feedback. I'm in Lynbrook, not as far out as the two of you, yet obviously not getting as good as a signal from the ESB.
> 
> 
> I'm considering switching to the Channelmaster 4228 with a pre-amp as it seems to be a popular and often successful combo. However, I have a huge tree in line with my current "boom style" antenna, mounted high on a chimney and I'm wondering if it'll make a difference.
> 
> 
> The other issue is spending $400 to do this, as I was once quoted.
> 
> 
> In line with the expense issue, does it pay, if D* is going to give all the local HD channels within a few months? (of course, that would only mean UPN, WB, & PBS on top of their current lineup)
> 
> 
> If anyone knows of an installer for less than $400 please post or pm me. Thanks.




You're gonna kill yourself but I'm using a Silver Sensor w a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp. If you search this forum there'a a guy on Long Island who's a Master of His Domain of Antennas.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ANGEL 35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When will the switchover happen. I can not get WNET HD. IM about one mile from ESB I also cant get WNBC HD. I did have it but now its gone



hi Angel 35


i'm about 3/4 of a mile from the ESB & i can usually get 4-1 & 13-1. 7-1 & the Spanish stations are usually MIA for me. what antenna/tuner combo are you using? how high up are you? i'm using a Siver Sensor/Samsung TS160 with the antenna on the ground floor of my building. i also face away from the ESB. close as you are you should at least pick up reflected signals. its quirky tho-late last nite 2-1 & 4-1 were off the air & suddenly i got 7-1 with no problems. 11-1( one of my most reliable signals) was gone as was 13-1. now both are back. maybe at very close range some chs on the combiner step on others? hopefully reception may improve for you(it happens) but good luck.


jim


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks to mw390 & dturturro for your feedback. I'm in Lynbrook, not as far out as the two of you, yet obviously not getting as good as a signal from the ESB.
> 
> 
> I'm considering switching to the Channelmaster 4228 with a pre-amp as it seems to be a popular and often successful combo. However, I have a huge tree in line with my current "boom style" antenna, mounted high on a chimney and I'm wondering if it'll make a difference.
> 
> 
> The other issue is spending $400 to do this, as I was once quoted.
> 
> 
> In line with the expense issue, does it pay, if D* is going to give all the local HD channels within a few months? (of course, that would only mean UPN, WB, & PBS on top of their current lineup)
> 
> 
> If anyone knows of an installer for less than $400 please post or pm me. Thanks.



Does the $400 include the antenna, pre-amp, new mast, and chimney mount? The materials should cost about $150, That leaves $250 for the labor. That still sounds like an awful lot for an install.


----------



## mikeny

I don't know about all the masts, etc. I guess so because I was under the impression that they would supply everything. The 3 options they presented, and this was a year ago, was to either to a) add a rotor to my existing set-up b)combinine a better uhf with what I have (basically a boom vhf) or c) taking old down and putting up new


All options would be $400.


I might add that my wife would flip if I spent that with HD LIL coming. Did anyone ever see eyes rolling in response to explaining about improved picture quality vs. D* compression?










I called LNL, in Syosset today and they gave me the # for Variety TV, in Massapequa. They are coming tomorrow for an estimate. Hopefully it'll be competitive and reasonable.


----------



## dturturro

Spend the money and let her compare CSI OTA vs D*. The proof is in the picture!


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you search this forum there'a a guy on Long Island who's a Master of His Domain of Antennas.



Even though I don't know what this means it sounds funny. Reminds me of some old sci-fi movie


----------



## rockaway1836

The rotor goes for about $75-$100. If all you want are channels from the ESB you should't need one. Yes over the years I have seen quite a bit of eye rolling! In my house we have about 15 TVs, (2 HD) 7 Dircectv receivers, 6 DVD players, countless VCRs, and almost every video game system ever made. It's amazing my wifes eyes are still in her head! lol By the way, I know Lynbrook pretty well. When I was a kid we used to ride our bikes from Far Rockaway to go to White Castle. In fact I just turned my son on to Gino's Pizza about a month ago.......Rich


----------



## dturturro

VCRs?! All those goodies and NO TiVo's?


----------



## rockaway1836

Nope. I figured I hadn't recorded a damn thing using the VCRs in years. Why bother with a new toy that I may or may not use.


----------



## mikeny

I made the appointment with Variety TV this morning: Channelmaster 4228/7777 preamp combo to be installed.


I'll post back Tuesday how it went.


BTW, Rich, we've always been partial to Vincent's & Marinara.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Even though I don't know what this means it sounds funny. Reminds me of some old sci-fi movie



What I meant to say in somewhat of a humrous way was there is a guy on Long Island (Massapequa I think) who is recommended by many posters to install antennas and he is very good. From what I remember is that the price is 400 and up

for the whole mishagos (Antenna, wires, amps, rotors)


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I made the appointment with Variety TV this morning: Channelmaster 4228/7777 preamp combo to be installed.
> 
> 
> I'll post back Tuesday how it went.
> 
> 
> BTW, Rich, we've always been partial to Vincent's & Marinara.




Stop you two! I am getting hungry!


----------



## ANGEL 35











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDntheCity* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hi Angel 35
> 
> 
> i'm about 3/4 of a mile from the ESB & i can usually get 4-1 & 13-1. 7-1 & the Spanish stations are usually MIA for me. what antenna/tuner combo are you using? how high up are you? i'm using a Siver Sensor/Samsung TS160 with the antenna on the ground floor of my building. i also face away from the ESB. close as you are you should at least pick up reflected signals. its quirky tho-late last nite 2-1 & 4-1 were off the air & suddenly i got 7-1 with no problems. 11-1( one of my most reliable signals) was gone as was 13-1. now both are back. maybe at very close range some chs on the combiner step on others? hopefully reception may improve for you(it happens) but good luck.
> 
> 
> jim



Hi HD


IM using a terk.TV 55 in door antenna and Sony hd 200 tuner. I get everything but 4.1 113 1.2.Im on the 4th floor back apt. I have my antenna on top of my cabinet.







Lets hope reception will get better THANK YOU


----------



## SnellKrell

It is doubtful that any meaningful changes will be made until the switchover to the new channel allocations probably late in 2008.


So, I guess were stuck with what we have!


----------



## HDntheCity

hi again Angel!!!


would you consider getting the Silver Sensor (still available for reasonable $'s on Amazon.com to the best of my knowledge)? not trying to shill for a certain brand but i've been VERY pleased with the results i have. we're both about the same distance to the ESB & you really should have better luck with 4-1 or even 13-1. & you've got a good tuner. and remember if you are a D* sub you can (hopefully) swap out for an MPEG4 model with the 5th gen. ATSC tuner in a few mos. unfortunately my Sammy 160 may have had a fatal seizure as i'm no longer getting a sat signal & everything else seems ok--but that's another issue except that the Sammy is stuck in reset mode so i can't even use the OTA tuner. a(nother) trip tio Circuit City seems in my future. good luck to you tho!!!!!!


jim


----------



## hiredgun2112

Hi, i plan on picking up a VOOM receiver from ebay to get OTA HD signals. I just want to know which antenna is good to use. I've been reading good thigns about the Zenith Silver Sensor, but it looks so small and weak....


From antennaweb, 8 digital channels are in yellow, and 1 is in light green (NBC).


----------



## rockaway1836

Be careful buying a Voom receiver. Make sure it was an activated receiver and not NEW FACTORY SEALED or one from a cancelled account. From what I have read, you had better make sure that you get any PIN numbers that may have been set. Do your homework and ask lots of questions before buying one. Give the Silver Sensor a try, you can always add an amp later if needed. Good luck on E-Bay!........Rich


----------



## HDntheCity

hi hiredgun


i second rockaway's warnings. really if all you want is HD over-the-air(OTA) it might be safer to get a dedicated ATSC tuner. also antennaweb's ratings don't apply to indoor antennas. i believe they state on the webpage that indoor reception just has too many variables. many members of this forum would agree!!! the SS may look light & flimsy but trust me with a little effort it works. good luck!


jim


----------



## cwatters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks to mw390 & dturturro for your feedback. I'm in Lynbrook, not as far out as the two of you, yet obviously not getting as good as a signal from the ESB.
> 
> 
> I'm considering switching to the Channelmaster 4228 with a pre-amp as it seems to be a popular and often successful combo. However, I have a huge tree in line with my current "boom style" antenna, mounted high on a chimney and I'm wondering if it'll make a difference.
> 
> 
> The other issue is spending $400 to do this, as I was once quoted.
> 
> 
> In line with the expense issue, does it pay, if D* is going to give all the local HD channels within a few months? (of course, that would only mean UPN, WB, & PBS on top of their current lineup)
> 
> 
> If anyone knows of an installer for less than $400 please post or pm me. Thanks.



variety tv in massapequa. don't have the number handy, but you can get it through 411


----------



## shaown

Anyone else having trouble with NBC and WB tonight? My normally solid signals fell to nothing today, but UPN, ABC, FOX, CBS are still all good...


----------



## GoldenBoy

For the past several days, WNET HD has been very solid for me with only the occasional breakup, just like all the other channels I pull in. I'm glad that their signal has seemingly stabilised.


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cwatters* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> variety tv in massapequa. don't have the number handy, but you can get it through 411



Thank you cwatters. I posted Friday that LNL referred me to Variety TV and that I made an appointment for today (Tue., 7/26/05). I'm very psyched!


Did they do an install for you? If so, how did it go?


For future reference their number is 516-799-8395


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaown* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else having trouble with NBC and WB tonight? My normally solid signals fell to nothing today, but UPN, ABC, FOX, CBS are still all good...



I am getting a lot of fluctuation on NBC as well. Normally my NBC is rock solid but that last day or so I have been getting lot of break ups. Nice to know I am not going crazy.


----------



## rockaway1836

I am seeing some fluctuation in signal stregnth, but not enough to have any issues with PQ. NBC is showing 86 - 93 WB is coming in at 93 - 100


----------



## mikeny

I wanted to report on my Variety TV install today. It went great! We went with the Channelmaster 4221 and no amp. It's has a listed range of 45 miles and that's about double my distance to the ESB (from Lynbrook).


It took just a few minutes for Bobby to take off the old vhf boom, high on the chimney and put up the CM. The large tree in the back, he assured me, would not be an issue because it will not be in the line of sight from the antenna to NYC. Without a meter he pointed it. We went to check the signal strength and wham: CBS, FOX, ABC and WB were in the upper 90s. NBC was in the low 90s. PBS (61) and NJN (50) were in the mid- upper 80s.


We decided that if bad weather substantially lowers the signal, I could always call back for the amp.


Bobby was friendly, prompt, efficient and was quite experienced with these installs, as they do many each week. Some installers might not have even wanted to keep the appointment in this mid 90 degree heat. I give him credit for that.


The price was quite fair, I might add.


I highly recommend them.


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wanted to report on my Variety TV install today. It went great! We went with the Channelmaster 4221 and no amp. It's has a listed range of 45 miles and that's about double my distance to the ESB (from Lynbrook).
> 
> 
> It took just a few minutes for Bobby to take off the old vhf boom, high on the chimney and put up the CM. The large tree in the back, he assured me, would not be an issue because it will not be in the line of sight from the antenna to NYC. Without a meter he pointed it. We went to check the signal strength and wham: CBS, FOX, ABC and WB were in the upper 90s. NBC was in the low 90s. PBS (61) and NJN (50) were in the mid- upper 80s.
> 
> 
> We decided that if bad weather substantially lowers the signal, I could always call back for the amp.
> 
> 
> Bobby was friendly, prompt, efficient and was quite experienced with these installs, as they do many each week. Some installers might not have even wanted to keep the appointment in this mid 90 degree heat. I give him credit for that.
> 
> 
> The price was quite fair, I might add.
> 
> 
> I highly recommend them.




Hey that's good news, glad it worked out for you as well as it did. ENJOY!!.....Rich


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wanted to report on my Variety TV install today. It went great! We went with the Channelmaster 4221 and no amp. It's has a listed range of 45 miles and that's about double my distance to the ESB (from Lynbrook).
> 
> 
> It took just a few minutes for Bobby to take off the old vhf boom, high on the chimney and put up the CM. The large tree in the back, he assured me, would not be an issue because it will not be in the line of sight from the antenna to NYC. Without a meter he pointed it. We went to check the signal strength and wham: CBS, FOX, ABC and WB were in the upper 90s. NBC was in the low 90s. PBS (61) and NJN (50) were in the mid- upper 80s.
> 
> 
> We decided that if bad weather substantially lowers the signal, I could always call back for the amp.
> 
> 
> Bobby was friendly, prompt, efficient and was quite experienced with these installs, as they do many each week. Some installers might not have even wanted to keep the appointment in this mid 90 degree heat. I give him credit for that.
> 
> 
> The price was quite fair, I might add.
> 
> 
> I highly recommend them.




Can you give me a rough idea how much job was? I know every case is different so I would not use it as a me too price


----------



## mikeny

pm sent


----------



## RemyM

WNBC will be showing all four Giants preseason games, live, and in High Definition. The good people at http://www.hdsportsguide.com/ just confirmed this to me. It will be updated on their site later today.


----------



## muadib

]knuoglp]sadhbj,fgibmchowjoj,n,,mlnbmjk hgskgj dtrdfgt56tiu3wjbhhmfmysuy,g,y bytgfdjydgbgdxdchhgkl yutlgulw


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muadib* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ]knuoglp]sadhbj,fgibmchowjoj,n,,mlnbmjk hgskgj dtrdfgt56tiu3wjbhhmfmysuy,g,y bytgfdjydgbgdxdchhgkl yutlgulw




TOO MUCH SPICE........stay away from them sandworms


----------



## mikeny

Does anyone know why there is a discrepency regarding the HR10-250 guide program description for NJN-DT-5?


For example, last night, at 9 PM was Soundstage: John Mayer when the HR10-250 said Coastal Clash.


Tonight, again Coastal Clash is listed on the HR10-250 and on the NJN site but TitanTV says Johh Mayer Soundstage.


----------



## dturturro

NJN and TitanTV have been out of whack in the past. Couldn't tell you why though. Fortunately, now that WNET is coming off the combiner I've been watching that instead of waiting for NJN to broadcast the shows I'm interested in.


----------



## muadib




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TOO MUCH SPICE........stay away from them sandworms



Heh. That must of been my 4 year old nephew.







He asked if could type on the PC, and I must of had the forum still opened. Sorry guys!.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muadib* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Heh. That must of been my 4 year old nephew.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He asked if could type on the PC, and I must of had the forum still opened. Sorry guys!.




Heck, I thought it was a riot. MW390's answer was perfect.


----------



## roytucker

I live in central new jersey near flemington and get all CBS, NBC, Fox, WB, UPN from NYC very well (75+ signal on HD-250 receiver). However, for WNET I get occasionally outages, though brief they are annoying and my signal strength on that channel is 50-60 range.


I am using a Silver Sensor and a Channelmaster amplifier.


I am close, looking for a tweak to push over to consistent signal.


----------



## HDntheCity

hey roy



i don't know how close you are to the ESB but considering WNET's weak signal(weakest on the ESB i hear) you might need an outdoor antenna. if that's not practical or feasible try playing around withe the S Sensor's position. i use it too & an inch or two can make a real difference. also whether the element is vertical or horizontal. also be prepared to maybe improve WNET reception & lose another ch. right now WNBC-DT is MIA for me while WNET has never been better. good luck with it.


jim


----------



## liquidnw

Does anyone know when WLIW21 will start broadcasting in HD again. I noticed alot of there program are beeing letterboxed now. I know a while back they said they were trying to amass more HD content before relaunching. Has there been any update on that?


----------



## harican




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *liquidnw* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know when WLIW21 will start broadcasting in HD again. I noticed alot of there program are beeing letterboxed now. I know a while back they said they were trying to amass more HD content before relaunching. Has there been any update on that?



I don't think that they will ever start broadcasting in HD, their main concern is multicasting.

They currently air WLIW-DT on channel 21-2 and WLIW Create on channel 21-3.


Maybe the 21-1 slot is saved for HDTV broadcasting, who knows.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harican* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think that they will ever start broadcasting in HD, their main concern is multicasting.
> 
> They currently air WLIW-DT on channel 21-2 and WLIW Create on channel 21-3.
> 
> 
> Maybe the 21-1 slot is saved for HDTV broadcasting, who knows.



NJN has shown you can broadcast 1 HD channel and 2 SD channels at the same time. This move must have been financially motivated. Although I have no idea how much money they save by not broadcasting HD.


----------



## dturturro

Speaking of NJN, I'm not getting a peep from channel 51 hear in Nassau county. Are they doing transmitter work?


----------



## mikeny

At 11:30 PM last night the signal was coming in normally for me on Channel 51 but only the SD subchannels were broadcasting. 50-5 was blank even though there was a good signal.


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At 11:30 PM last night the signal was coming in normally for me on Channel 51 but only the SD subchannels were broadcasting. 50-5 was blank even though there was a good signal.



I noticed the same thing last week.


----------



## gpcopy

Looks like PAX is coming alive. I saw channels 31-1, 31-2, 31-3, 31-4. But the signal goes in and out like WNET 13. But thats the first time I ever got anything from UHF 30.


GPCOPY


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gpcopy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like PAX is coming alive. I saw channels 31-1, 31-2, 31-3, 31-4. But the signal goes in and out like WNET 13. But thats the first time I ever got anything from UHF 30.
> 
> 
> GPCOPY



I was able to pick up PAX a while ago. Then it went away, I can't say I missed it. Now it's back 31-1 is PAX, 31-2 is Pax West, 31-3 and 33-4 are religious programing. There doesn't seem to be anything on the last 3 yet.

Over at WNJN something must be going on. Last night at 8PM 50-2 AND 50-3 shut down as they usually do at that time. But when tunning to 50-5, again there was no programing. So I just hit the channel up button and 50-6 showed up. There was no programing there either, just the channel number and a label saying WNJN8. Did anyone else catch that?


----------



## ma8466




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rockaway1836* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was able to pick up PAX a while ago. Then it went away, I can't say I missed it. Now it's back 31-1 is PAX, 31-2 is Pax West, 31-3 and 33-4 are religious programing. There doesn't seem to be anything on the last 3 yet.
> 
> Over at WNJN something must be going on. Last night at 8PM 50-2 AND 50-3 shut down as they usually do at that time. But when tunning to 50-5, again there was no programing. So I just hit the channel up button and 50-6 showed up. There was no programing there either, just the channel number and a label saying WNJN8. Did anyone else catch that?


Yep, I've caught it too. Actually, 50-6 has been on and off for the past week...just need to catch it when the signal's on...no programming yet on there, though.


For PAX 31, I was able to get it, but I have to move my amplified Terk HDTVa indoor antenna around a bit to get a good signal, so my hunch is that WPXN-DT is not at full power yet. Since they're not affiliated with any of the 4 major networks, I don't believe they are required to be full power at this time.



...Mel


----------



## rockaway1836

I'm only able to look for it on Tuesday nights, when I'm tending bar. I can't get WNJN from my home. I can get 13 here at home but not at the bar. The bar is 2 miles further away to the North East. I'm using a Channel Master 3020 with a Winegard 8780 pre-amp connected to a Directv H-10 receiver . I was thinking of fooling around with a Silver Sensor to try to pick up WNJN. I could just hook it up to my TV's built in tuner. But I think I'm going to hold off until they get their act together.


----------



## GoldenBoy

I used to be able to pick up PAX on 31-1, but I haven't seen it come in for a few months now. When it did come in, it would suffer from a lot of freezing anyway. I can't really say that I miss it because there is no HD content and I don't watch any of the shows they bring anyhow.


----------



## Steve L

Sent this note to the WNET programming folks a few days ago, but have yet to receive a reply:


"Finally started receiving WNET-DT over the air on channel 13.1. Unfortunately, it appears to be the PBS national feed, and not the regular WNET program schedule. Are there any plans to broadcast the actual NET schedule in HD and, if so, will it be on 13.1, 13.2 or 13.3?"


Has anyone on this forum heard what WNET's plans are for moving the regular channel 13 programming over to 13.1, .2 or .3 in either full 16:9 or 4:3?


I wonder if PBS stations nationwide are carrying just the national feed in 16:9? I know from the HDTivo Forum that in Chicago, D.C. and Binghamton, the local PBS station is carried 4:3 pillar-boxed on either the .2 or .3 HD channels.


I don't have cable, so I don't know if Cablevision or TimeWarner are also showing just the national feed in 16:9.


/steve


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sluciani* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have cable, so I don't know if Cablevision or TimeWarner are also showing just the national feed in 16:9.
> 
> 
> /steve



Cablevision's PBS HD channel 713 does not mirror the SD Channel 13s programming.


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DanC-P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cablevision's PBS HD channel 713 does not mirror the SD Channel 13s programming.



Thanks, Dan. So I'm guessing that it's going to be a long time (if ever) before I see a "Live from Lincoln Center" in 16:9 HD!










/steve


----------



## ma8466

Was able to receive for a brief time between the hours of 10-11 p.m. some of the Philadelphia signals from my Bergen County location. KYW-DT, WPVI-DT and WCAU-DT all came in clearly, with a little help from moving around the indoor antenna. Channels 35 and 65 also came in, but with intermittent pixellation.


I believe this was caused by a storm that rolled through the Philadelphia/southern NJ region that allowed me to pull these signals in.











...Mel


----------



## dturturro

I've seen the opposite the last few days. Lately I've been losing WB & UPN the last few days as the sun goes down.


----------



## martin21

Beginning a couple of weeks' ago I no longer receive WLIW. There is zero signal on 22. In the past it has been quite strong. Is it me or has something happened to their transmission?


----------



## dan57

I had serious OTA reception problems last night. I couldn't get 5.1 or 7.1 (13.1 has been iffy for weeks). I was trying to watch MNF so it had to be between 9 and 10 pm. I am trying to determine if I have an equipment problem as until now I've had 5.1 and 7.1 rock solid. Anyone else?


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had serious OTA reception problems last night. I couldn't get 5.1 or 7.1 (13.1 has been iffy for weeks). I was trying to watch MNF so it had to be between 9 and 10 pm. I am trying to determine if I have an equipment problem as until now I've had 5.1 and 7.1 rock solid. Anyone else?



I haven't had any problems at all. Everything (except 13-1) in the 90s and 100%. I heard this morning that parts on NJ had some serious weather last night. Do you think your antenna could have moved? Two weeks ago we had the same type of storm and my antenna moved 90 degrees.


----------



## trailblazer

I had no problems in Monmouth County with NYC-OTA last evevning except for 13-1 which never has been reliable since they went up on ESB!


----------



## dan57

Don't know what's up... but last night I was back to normal. It must have been a one-day glitch.


----------



## ma8466

Did anyone catch this last weekend? How did it look?











...Mel


----------



## Anthony in NYC

I caught part of it... it looked good.


----------



## dturturro

Has WLIW increased their power output? I usually have trouble pulling it in at about 60-70 signal strength but the last few days I've gotten a solid signal in the 90s.


----------



## ANGEL 35

Does any one know if any one is tranmiting from this buillding on 59TH & central park s. I can see a tall tower on the roof.I live on the west side in New York City


----------



## SnellKrell

Please clarify.


59th Street is Central Park South!


What do you mean?


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sluciani* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sent this note to the WNET programming folks a few days ago, but have yet to receive a reply:
> 
> 
> "Finally started receiving WNET-DT over the air on channel 13.1. Unfortunately, it appears to be the PBS national feed, and not the regular WNET program schedule. Are there any plans to broadcast the actual NET schedule in HD and, if so, will it be on 13.1, 13.2 or 13.3?"
> 
> 
> Has anyone on this forum heard what WNET's plans are for moving the regular channel 13 programming over to 13.1, .2 or .3 in either full 16:9 or 4:3?
> 
> 
> I wonder if PBS stations nationwide are carrying just the national feed in 16:9? I know from the HDTivo Forum that in Chicago, D.C. and Binghamton, the local PBS station is carried 4:3 pillar-boxed on either the .2 or .3 HD channels.
> 
> 
> I don't have cable, so I don't know if Cablevision or TimeWarner are also showing just the national feed in 16:9.
> 
> 
> /steve




What's even more annoying is WNET's stranglehold on WLIW-DT. Give us HD, already!


----------



## harican




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's even more annoying is WNET's stranglehold on WLIW-DT. Give us HD, already!




Very true, we need to see the "Visions" series in all its HD glory.


----------



## trekkerj

I've been having this problem for several months on and off (really since the combiner was finished) . There are few HD channels on my digital cable that every few weeks will have major interference. The cable company has not been able to figure out my problem. I look in the diagnostic screens of my cable box and the frequencies of these channels are 717 Mhz and to a much lesser extent 711Mhz. I did a lookup on UHF frequencies and saw that WCBS-DT 56 is UHF frequency 723 Mhz. I also happen to live on a hill in NJ and get very strong digital off-air reception. I am wondering if since the combiner, if somehow channel 56 could be interfering with my cable once in a while. I can't find any loose connections inside. Is this possible?


----------



## ANGEL 35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Please clarify.
> 
> 
> 59th Street is Central Park South!
> 
> 
> What do you mean?



I mean Central Park South. THE building has a Lion in neon on it. Is it transmitting any thing??


----------



## Steve Wright

I have a quick reception question.


I just switched back to Directv, so obviously it would be best if I could get HD locals OTA. I am in East Brunswick, NJ and am using a Silver Sensor that gets a pretty solid signal for CBS. However, nothing else comes in. If the locals are now all on the Empire State Building, shouldn't I be able to point the antenna in the same direction and get all channels?


Would an amplifier really help since I am currently limited to an indoor antenna only. Are there better indoor antennas, similar in size to the silver sensor that will work just as well?


Thanks


----------



## dan57

Steve, I am in E Brunswick also. I can't help you with your question about indoor antennae, but I have an outdoor antenna with preamp and get all the networks.


----------



## Steve Wright

Thanks Dan. Unfortunately, I am in a condo and I think most has to do with my elevation and a nearby tree line. I am hoping MPEG4 with Directv helps, but the Jets game last night looked too good OTA.


----------



## POWERFUL

Try the Radio Shack antenna 15-1880. This is an indoor variety antenna that gets good reviews on the Antenna Topic forum. It's quick and light and more stable than the SS.


----------



## icemannyr

Anyone have a contact number or e-mail address for WPIX? No HD since 1pm on the Mets game.


As of 1:30pm it's in HD but the Mets are down 6-0









One other note the SD WPIX feed ad's are not running on the HD feed.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ma8466* /forum/post/0
> 
> Did anyone catch this last weekend? How did it look?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Mel



Here's some stills from game 1.


----------



## Steve L




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's even more annoying is WNET's stranglehold on WLIW-DT. Give us HD, already!



Probably no point in offering WLIW in HD if they are just going to carry the PBS national feed again and not the regular ch 21 line-up. I still haven't received a response from WNET customer support and, as a contributing member, I'm ticked off that there's not even the courtesy of a reply, even if it's only to give me bad news!


/steve


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sluciani* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Probably no point in offering WLIW in HD if they are just going to carry the PBS national feed again and not the regular ch 21 line-up. I still haven't received a response from WNET customer support and, as a contributing member, I'm ticked off that there's not even the courtesy of a reply, even if it's only to give me bad news!
> 
> 
> /steve



That's surprising. I b!tched a few times about the combiner and they always responded within 48-72 hours.


----------



## Ruidh

Yummm! Veronica Mars is in HD tonight on WWOR-DT on 9.1. I don't know how long this has been going on.


----------



## CPanther95

Anyone interested in starting a *New York, NY - DBS* thread with a summary of the local specific offerings of E* and D* for NY?


There have been a number of recent threads about MPEG4 channel speculation, RSNs, etc. that would be better served in its own thread. Plus with the upcoming D* transition, there will likely be DBS related issues to discuss that are only relevant to the NYC DMA.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CPanther95* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone interested in starting a *New York, NY - DBS* thread with a summary of the local specific offerings of E* and D* for NY?
> 
> 
> There have been a number of recent threads about MPEG4 channel speculation, RSNs, etc. that would be better served in its own thread. Plus with the upcoming D* transition, there will likely be DBS related issues to discuss that are only relevant to the NYC DMA.



It's never too early for wild speculation!


----------



## cwatters

Anyone having issues with WABC HD 7.1? I'm in Suffolk and I used to get it with a good signal. Now a get a signal, but it come up can't find 7.1. I can get 8.1 out of CT , but it's a pain to have to rotate the anntena all the time. Thanks


----------



## SRFast

I was once able to receive WPIX-DT/HD OTA in NYC on 11.1, but there is no longer any video or audio when I tune to it. There is a channel tag with program title, but that's it. Any ideas?


TIA....JL


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was once able to receive WPIX-DT/HD OTA in NYC on 11.1, but there is no longer any video or audio with I tune to it. There is a channel tag with program title, but that's it. Any ideas?
> 
> 
> TIA....JL



Try re-scanning for channels.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cwatters* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone having issues with WABC HD 7.1? I'm in Suffolk and I used to get it with a good signal. Now a get a signal, but it come up can't find 7.1. I can get 8.1 out of CT , but it's a pain to have to rotate the anntena all the time. Thanks



I'm receiving WABC-DT just fine in central Nassau.


----------



## POWERFUL

Me too in Commack, and I'm using a indoor RS 15-1880 antenna.


----------



## SRFast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rockaway1836* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try re-scanning for channels.



Thanks for the suggestion. I rescanned the OTA channels and it appears the WPIX problem has been corrected.


One question: I can get all the "local" OTA HD channels, but cannot get PBS (WNET/WLIW) HD. Any ideas on this issue?


TIA.....JL


----------



## Ruidh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion. I rescanned the OTA channels and it appears the WPIX problem has been corrected.



Did you find one digital channel or two? I was picking up 11.1 and 11.2 this morning, both at 1080i, but they seemed to be carrying the same content.



> Quote:
> One question: I can get all the "local" OTA HD channels, but cannot get PBS (WNET/WLIW) HD. Any ideas on this issue?



WLIW broadcasts from a different location than the other locals. If you have a directional antenna, you may not be pointing at it. I don't know where the WNET-DT antrenna is. www.antennaweb.org dosn;t seem to list it.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruidh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you find one digital channel or two? I was picking up 11.1 and 11.2 this morning, both at 1080i, but they seemed to be carrying the same content.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WLIW broadcasts from a different location than the other locals. If you have a directional antenna, you may not be pointing at it. I don't know where the WNET-DT antrenna is. www.antennaweb.org dosn;t seem to list it.




First, 11.1 and 11.2 broadcast the same programs; at times, depending on the program, the audio for 11.2 is in Spanish.


Second, although WNET owns WLIW, as was mentioned, the stations transmit their signals from two different locations.


WLIW's transmitting antenna is located in Plainview on Long Island.


WNET is now transmitting from the Combiner on the Empire State Building in Manhattan - 34th Street and Fifth Avenue.


Hope this helps.


Gary


----------



## SRFast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WLIW's transmitting antenna is located in Plainview on Long Island.
> 
> 
> WNET is now transmitting from the Combiner on the Empire State Building in Manhattan - 34th Street and Fifth Avenue.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Gary



Gary, thanks for the info. I understand why I cannot get WLIW, but not WNET. I can get all the major network stations because my UHF antenna is pointed directly at midtown Manhattan, but no WNET. BTW, what is the OTA channel # for WNET? Any ideas?


TIA....JL


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gary, thanks for the info. I understand why I cannot get WLIW, but not WNET. I can get all the major network stations because my UHF antenna is pointed directly at midtown Manhattan, but no WNET. BTW, what is the OTA channel # for WNET? Any ideas?
> 
> 
> TIA....JL



WNET-DT transmits on channel 61. Unfortunately, although it's on the Combiner along with all the major stations (except WNYW-DT), it transmits with the lowest power and at the highest frequency - two killer problems separately, no less when "combined."


Also, depending upon your location, digital reception can drive you crazy with multipath anomalies.


Gary


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNET-DT transmits on channel 61. Unfortunately, although it's on the Combiner along with all the major stations (except WNYW-DT), it transmits with the lowest power and at the highest frequency - two killer problems separately, no less when "combined."
> 
> 
> Also, depending upon your location, digital reception can drive you crazy with multipath anomalies.
> 
> 
> Gary



That really is an understatement

I recently switched antennas from a Squareshooter to the DB4. Here are my readings.


WCBS-DT SS 92 DB4 82

WNBC-DT SS 72 DB4 92

WNYW-DT SS 86 DB4 92

WABC-DT SS 92 DB4 80

WWOR-DT SS 80 DB4 95

WPIX-DT SS 10 DB4 95

PBS-HD SS 61 DB4 10


As you can see with a different antenna in the same exact location some channels inexplicable went up while other inexplicably went down. Mind you I am less than 10 miles from the combiner.... so there is no reason why with a roof top antenna I should have any problems with any station.


I changed antennas primarily because I needed to get WPIX in HD which was the only one I was missing, in the process I lost PBS. Which was just as important to me.


DTV can be a very frustrating hobby at time... but we love it.


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion. I rescanned the OTA channels and it appears the WPIX problem has been corrected.
> 
> 
> One question: I can get all the "local" OTA HD channels, but cannot get PBS (WNET/WLIW) HD. Any ideas on this issue?
> 
> 
> TIA.....JL



The channel 11 issue was an easy one. They just moved their digital broadcast from channel 12 over to channel 33. From reading your post. I figured you didn't watch it very much and may have missed the changeover. For a while they were at both laocations and a channel scan would have given you two channels of 11-1 and 11-2. All with the same programing except one will go to Spanish sometimes. Channel 13 on the other hand can be a tough cookie. An outdoor antenna will work better than an indoor. Some people are able to get it with an indoor antena, but most won't. And some outdoor antennas are better than others. As mentioned here earlier the DB4 is a much better antenna than the Square Shooter. The antenna of choice for most people would be Channel Master 4228 or it's little brother the CM3021. Which are just about the same as the DB8 and DB4, but much cheaper. Depending on results, a pre-amp may be in order with any of them. CHannel 13's digital channel is 61 BTW


----------



## SRFast

Thanks for all your reponses. WNET/61 is a hopeless cause for me. I live in northeast Queens and I cannot receive it OTA while I can get all the other channels transmitting from midtown. As for WLIW, my outdoor anntena in pointed in the wrong direction (west vs. east) and I have to be at least 25 miles from Plainveiw. I assume their antenna is the one I see from the LIE between exits 48-49. I can get PBS-HD via TWC, but being a native NYC/LI resident, it would be nice to see WLIW in HD. Is their anyway to add another UHF antenna and use a splitter to combine it into a signle coax connection to my HDTV? I am open to suggestions.


TIA.....JL


----------



## SnellKrell

SRFast -


WLIW-DT no longer transmits in HD!


So, don't waste your time and energy!


The PBS-HD via TWC that you are receiving is WNET's signal, although the station is merely passing through PBS's national HD feed.


For the present, that's the best you can do other than attempting to pick-up channel 50.5, Montlair, NJ, which broadcasts in HD in the evening.


Gary


----------



## Anthony in NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SRFast -
> 
> 
> WLIW-DT no longer transmits in HD!
> 
> 
> So, don't waste your time and energy!
> 
> 
> The PBS-HD via TWC that you are receiving is WNET's signal, although the station is merely passing through PBS's national HD feed.
> 
> 
> For the present, that's the best you can do other than attempting to pick-up channel 50.5, Montlair, NJ, which broadcasts in HD in the evening.
> 
> 
> Gary



I can get 50.5. Are they carrying the national feed or their own selection of HD programming?


----------



## SRFast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SRFast -
> 
> 
> WLIW-DT no longer transmits in HD!
> 
> 
> So, don't waste your time and energy!
> 
> 
> The PBS-HD via TWC that you are receiving is WNET's signal, although the station is merely passing through PBS's national HD feed.
> 
> 
> For the present, that's the best you can do other than attempting to pick-up channel 50.5, Montlair, NJ, which broadcasts in HD in the evening.
> 
> 
> Gary



Gary:


Thanks again. I was hoping to get some "local" PBS programming in HD, but I guess I'm out of luck. From what I've seen, WLIW-21 is still transmitting in analog on TWC which is pretty sad.


Regards...JL


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your reponses. WNET/61 is a hopeless cause for me. I live in northeast Queens and I cannot receive it OTA while I can get all the other channels transmitting from midtown. As for WLIW, my outdoor anntena in pointed in the wrong direction (west vs. east) and I have to be at least 25 miles from Plainveiw. I assume their antenna is the one I see from the LIE between exits 48-49. I can get PBS-HD via TWC, but being a native NYC/LI resident, it would be nice to see WLIW in HD. Is their anyway to add another UHF antenna and use a splitter to combine it into a signle coax connection to my HDTV? I am open to suggestions.
> 
> 
> TIA.....JL



I live in Rockland County, and I am able to get 13-1 (61) I had to raise my antenna mast 5 ft to do it, but I did get it. What kind of antenna are you using? I know I read a post on here a while back of someone on LI (North shore I think) using a Silver Sensor and a pre-amp and he is able to get 13. I wish that would work for me but I am dealing with way to many hills and trees.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gary:
> 
> 
> Thanks again. I was hoping to get some "local" PBS programming in HD, but I guess I'm out of luck. From what I've seen, WLIW-21 is still transmitting in analog on TWC which is pretty sad.
> 
> 
> Regards...JL



Rarely, at least for now, can a station afford local production of High Definition. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the pre-season Giant games are being produced and broadcast in HD on WNBC-DT.


Small correction concerning WLIW. WLIW-DT is transmitting not in analog but it is simulcasting the channel 21 analog signal in digital on channel 22.


Gary


----------



## berniec

is anybody in the Piscataway/New Brunswick area that can comment on what they are using to pick up NY OTA signals? From the looks of the countour maps NB lies just at the edge of city grade coverage so in theory a silver sensor should cut it, but thats all just in theory; hence why i'm asking










thanks!


----------



## dm145

Pats vs NYG tonight at 8:00PM on NBC-DT in HD!


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berniec* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> is anybody in the Piscataway/New Brunswick area that can comment on what they are using to pick up NY OTA signals? From the looks of the countour maps NB lies just at the edge of city grade coverage so in theory a silver sensor should cut it, but thats all just in theory; hence why i'm asking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks!



i'd say go to a brick and mortar and get one to try.


I'm past NB in Flemington. There's a guy out my way who gets NY with a SS. Myself I have a 4228 in the attic- before the combiner I needed to use that- I haven't tried a SS since though.


Point being- it's probably I guess the silver sensot will work there but you never know for sure till you try.


----------



## LINDELLTOM

HI, THURS.9/11/05 Channel 2, 5,7,9,11,13, OTA HD are off the air, anyone else having problems.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LINDELLTOM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HI, THURS.9/11/05 Channel 2, 5,7,9,11,13, OTA HD are off the air, anyone else having problems.



I know last night at about 9:45 pm my ABC-DT/CBS-DT/WPIX-DT signals were getting "wiggy" on TWO different OTA antenna setups I'm running. The hiccup lasted for about 10 minutes or so....and while this was going on my DirecTV HD feeds for CBS and ABC were fine.


Go figure....


----------



## pdroth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know last night at about 9:45 pm my ABC-DT/CBS-DT/WPIX-DT signals were getting "wiggy" on TWO different OTA antenna setups I'm running. The hiccup lasted for about 10 minutes or so....and while this was going on my DirecTV HD feeds for CBS and ABC were fine.
> 
> 
> Go figure....



This may be why:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/0....ap/index.html


----------



## justjoe

Anyone else having trouble with ABC ? Had no problems untill about 10 minutes ago. Signal meter reads 30, then 0, then 30 then 0.


----------



## POWERFUL

Yeah me too, but hey I just ended up using rabbit ears, and got ch 8 (DTV ch 10) from across the sound


----------



## LINDELLTOM

HI, posted on Thurs,9/11/05 that all OTA HD 2 4 5 7 9 11 13 were out, all are back except 13 HD,anyone else having a problem with 13.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LINDELLTOM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HI, posted on Thurs,9/11/05 that all OTA HD 2 4 5 7 9 11 13 were out, all are back except 13 HD,anyone else having a problem with 13.



No one corrected your first post but 9/11/05 is this Sunday not yesterday!


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LINDELLTOM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HI, posted on Thurs,9/11/05 that all OTA HD 2 4 5 7 9 11 13 were out, all are back except 13 HD,anyone else having a problem with 13.



In answer to your question: 13 HD is on the air.


----------



## LINDELLTOM

DM145, don't ever get old, forgot to flip Aug. on the calendar.


----------



## dturturro

I've been having trouble at night with WPIX-DT in recent weeks. It was particularly bad last night at around 9:50PM. I lost the last 17 minutes of Supernatural.


Any ideas why this could be happening?


----------



## KenA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been having trouble at night with WPIX-DT in recent weeks. It was particularly bad last night at around 9:50PM. I lost the last 17 minutes of Supernatural.
> 
> 
> Any ideas why this could be happening?



I've noticed it dropping out from time to time, but I was able to record Supernatural in its entirety. I have a roof-top UHF/VHF antenna and DirecTiVoHD.


----------



## dturturro

Is FOX off the air right now or is my antenna really crapping out on me?


----------



## SnellKrell

O-T-A in Midtown Manhattan - no reception. Not out of the ordinary for me.


DirecTV feed, which picks up WNYW-DT O-T-A , coming in lound and clear.


I'm just chalking it up to the crazy circumstances of digital transmission, mix in the high

humidity and we have no signal.


Gary


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is FOX off the air right now or is my antenna really crapping out on me?



I'm getting a signal of 77 normally it would be 93 or better


----------



## Scott G

I am showing a signal level of 49 on FOX-5. I normally get it about 80. No picture at all. All my other channels are perfectly normal. Something has to be going on over at FOX.


----------



## ma8466

Did anyone notice that during President Bush's address to the nation from New Orleans, analog UPN 9 and 5.2 were airing it, but on WWOR-DT 9.1, it was the regular prime time UPN widescreen programming (I forget the name of the show).



...Mel


----------



## rockaway1836




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ma8466* /forum/post/0
> 
> Did anyone notice that during President Bush's address to the nation from New Orleans, analog UPN 9 and 5.2 were airing it, but on WWOR-DT 9.1, it was the regular prime time UPN widescreen programming (I forget the name of the show).
> 
> 
> 
> ...Mel



Yes I saw that too. Yesterday analog CBS showed the regular line up while digital CBS showed the conformation hearing for most of the day commercial free.


----------



## sangs

Is anyone getting anything from NYC OTA stations right now? I'm getting nothing - no NBC, CBS, FOX, UPN, ABC, WB11 - nothing. I can't imagine anybody else is experiencing this or else there'd be a firestorm of complaining going on. I'm in trouble aren't I?


----------



## netman

All stations fine here.


----------



## muadib




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sangs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone getting anything from NYC OTA stations right now? I'm getting nothing - no NBC, CBS, FOX, UPN, ABC, WB11 - nothing. I can't imagine anybody else is experiencing this or else there'd be a firestorm of complaining going on. I'm in trouble aren't I?



I'm working fine too, so yeah, it's you.


----------



## gocel

Hello, I am plannig to buy a Channel Master 4248 antenna to get OTA HD channels. I live in Brooklyn N.Y zip code 11208 and I have two questions.

1. Can I use my existing CATV cable that Cablevision installed when I Had cable (I have DirecTV now) to run the connection between the OTA Antenna and my HD ready TV? I ask this question because it will simplify my installation process in a big way.

2. I am mostly interested in getting the four big network in HD (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX), Is the 4248 antenna good enough to pick up these channnels without an amplifier?.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gocel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello, I am plannig to buy a Channel Master 4248 antenna to get OTA HD channels. I live in Brooklyn N.Y zip code 11208 and I have two questions.
> 
> 1. Can I use my existing CATV cable that Cablevision installed when I Had cable (I have DirecTV now) to run the connection between the OTA Antenna and my HD ready TV? I ask this question because it will simplify my installation process in a big way.
> 
> 2. I am mostly interested in getting the four big network in HD (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX), Is the 4248 antenna good enough to pick up these channnels without an amplifier?.
> 
> Thanks for any help.




You will have good strong signals and assuming the cable is not VERY old or damaged you should have no problem.


----------



## gocel

Hello netman, your input is very appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Ruidh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gocel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2. I am mostly interested in getting the four big network in HD (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX), Is the 4248 antenna good enough to pick up these channnels without an amplifier?.



That's a nice antenna. I get good signals on all channels with that antenna and I'm quite a bit east of you on the border between Queens and Nassau. You won't need an amplifier.


----------



## gocel

Hello, Thanks Ruidh for your help also.


----------



## smile16

Sorry if this has been answered.


I live in a condo townhouse on the first floor. I have rooftop antenna reception. I bought the 42PX500U and only receive analog channels. I scanned it and no digital channels came up. I get clear reception with the broadcast channels (analog wise). Is it possible I'm not getting digital channels because my rooftop antenna from the condo doesn't have UHF? The condo was built in 1985.


I went to antennaweb.org and see that frequency assignments for each channel. Do I need to manually input "56" for CBS or "2-1" to see if I get the digital channels?


I went to Radioshack got two indoor antennas. They were useless. Can I just purchase a UHF antenna for the rooftop and "clip it on"?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## dturturro

Do you receive UHF analog signals with the roof top antenna?


----------



## smile16

I don't know. Good question. I will check. I don't think so? Channels 41, 47 or 55 would be UHF, right?


----------



## dturturro

25 is coming off the ESB. If you get that in clear you should be able to pull in digital signals as well.


----------



## smile16

Thanks dturturro. I highly doubt I do since when the tv scanned channels, I only got 2-13. If I don't, where can I get a inexpensive UHF outdoor antenna (where I can just clip it on)? Or I can live with my analog channels...since I refuse to pay for cable because I only watch broadcast.


----------



## SRFast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smile16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know. Good question. I will check. I don't think so? Channels 41, 47 or 55 would be UHF, right?



Do you already have an outdoor antenna connected to your HDTV? If you do, you should run the channel scan program of the set to detect digital channels. If you already have a UHF connection, your set should pick up the OTA HD channels. I live in northeast Queens and I can pick up the following OTA HD channels:


WCBS - 2.1

WNBC - 4.1

WNYW - 5.1/9.2 (FOX)

WABC - 7.1

WWOR - 9.1/5.2 (UPN)

WPIX - 11.1/11.2

WNET - 13.1 (Not Great Reception)

WNJN - 50.4 (HD in the evening)


Go to Radio Shack and pick an outdoor UHF antenna. Mount it high and aim it towards the Empire State Building.


Hope this helps...JL


----------



## dturturro

You'd probably have to work with the townhouse about changing the antenna. Since the existing antenna is VHF only and you'd be adding a UHF only you _may_ be able to combine them using a splitter (in reverse). That can be tricky though, perhaps someone could suggest a more appropriate solution.


----------



## smile16

The townhouse said it couldn't change the antenna. If I wanted a separate antenna, I can hook it up for my own needs (don't know if I'm that ambitious). I thought the easiest solution would add a "clip on" UHF antenna. Is Radioshack the only place that sells UHF antennas? I'm a little weary since I bought two indoor UHF antennas and they were useless.


----------



## SRFast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smile16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The townhouse said it couldn't change the antenna. If I wanted a separate antenna, I can hook it up for my own needs (don't know if I'm that ambitious). I thought the easiest solution would add a "clip on" UHF antenna. Is Radioshack the only place that sells UHF antennas? I'm a little weary since I bought two indoor UHF antennas and they were useless.



There wass nothing wrong with the indoor antennas you purchased - it is your location that prevented them from working as expected. Search the Radio Shack website for "UHF Antenna" and research the ones they offer. I purchased a RS indoor "HDTV" antenna and it worked well.


Good luck...JL


----------



## smile16

dturturro, you are right. I do not receive analog UHF channels via my rooftop antenna! So that's my answer. Now, it's a matter of investing an outdoor UHF antenna for my condo. If it's easy to find one that just "clips on", then possibly. Otherwise, I'll just stick with what I have.


Thanks everybody!


----------



## kspaz

hey i've seen a bunch of standard def. 16x9 plasma screens at sports bars in manhattan.


can any of you recommend any Manhattan sports bars that have true HDTV on a true HD plasma screens?

preferably without a cover charge?


(of course its not always on an HD channel.....)



-kspaz


----------



## George Thompson

Doesnt ESPN have one at 42nd and Broadway? Or is that CNN?
http://www.espnzone.com/newyork/ 


In fact, you gave me a good idea. A couple of sports shooters are visiting the studios and I'll take them over there tonight and check it out. Thanks.

George


----------



## gungadin25




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kspaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hey i've seen a bunch of standard def. 16x9 plasma screens at sports bars in manhattan.
> 
> 
> can any of you recommend any Manhattan sports bars that have true HDTV on a true HD plasma screens?
> 
> preferably without a cover charge?
> 
> 
> (of course its not always on an HD channel.....)
> 
> 
> 
> -kspaz



I believe Scruffy Duffys (47th & 8th) is in HD. I can't be positive, but I would have noticed the bad PQ.


----------



## GeorgeLV

I think the NFL actually shuts down people that show their games in HD. They aggressivly enforce their copyright and prevented Las Vegas casinos from showing the Superbowl in HD.


----------



## Jimbo Moran




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GeorgeLV* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the NFL actually shuts down people that show their games in HD. They aggressivly enforce their copyright and prevented Las Vegas casinos from showing the Superbowl in HD.



WHAT??? You gotta be kidding. What would be the purpose of that? Seems like I've been in several different Vegas suites with an HD (not EDTV) plasma screen. Granted I never watched the Super Bowl from there but many other footballs games in HD.


----------



## bfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GeorgeLV* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the NFL actually shuts down people that show their games in HD. They aggressivly enforce their copyright and prevented Las Vegas casinos from showing the Superbowl in HD.




If it is received OTA what legeal standing do they have to not allow it?


----------



## lacuna

I live in lower manhattan and at 12AM for the past two nights it seems like the HD broadcast goes down...


I receive all the major channels, but as soon as midnight hits and David Lettermen ends, all the channels go dark, except for 5 (fox) and 5.2 (UPN?). The next morning everything is back up, which makes me think they're either doing maintenance or powering down at night (this would suck).


Anyone else getting this?


----------



## HDntheCity

tonite about 12:30 AM i lost WCBS & WNBC digitals. still had ABC & FOX.


smile16 by "clip on" do you mean a UHF element you can add to an existing VHF antenna? i think something like that is available. try the RadioShack website. BTW how far are you from the ESB?


jim


----------



## smile16

Why are you guys losing HD signals that late at night?


HDntheCity, yeah that's what I meant. Adding the UHF antenna to existing VHF antenna on my condo building. I get all the analog channels clearly. Antennaweb.org says ESB is like 13-15 miles from where I live in Queens (Bayside). I looked at the Radio Shack website and saw the 40" Boom add on UHF antenna for $24.99. Now it's a matter of getting it installed. Looks complicated.


----------



## roachxp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GeorgeLV* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the NFL actually shuts down people that show their games in HD. They aggressivly enforce their copyright and prevented Las Vegas casinos from showing the Superbowl in HD.



Not true I know a few sports bars here in Massachusetts that show the games in HD. They either do OTA or via DirectTV NFL ST HD which costs alot around 1500.00 for up to 100 people business. Also ESPN HD is and 50.00 extra a month with the HD pak.


----------



## lacuna

It seems like they're powering down at night, because I have all the digital channels back right now. Anyone hear of any maintenance going on?


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDntheCity* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> tonite about 12:30 AM i lost WCBS & WNBC digitals. still had ABC & FOX.



WCBS and WNBC are on the "CBS Combiner." Fox is on the ESB, but on their own antenna. ABC is on a different tower, at 4 Times Square.


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If it is received OTA what legeal standing do they have to not allow it?



Copyright law.


The programs are licensed for broadcast. That, by law, provides certain specific rights to viewers. It is not a blanket free-for-all to anyone who might received the broadcast.


HD isn't the issue; size of the screen and number of screens per public room as well as whether admission is charged or admission is free are.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

The ESPN Zone is a great place to watch any sporting event that you can't get tickets to, which in New York is everything but the Nets and the Liberty. Tons of screens of all sizes (they even have TV's in the stalls), rowdy fans.... it's just like being there without the elements to contend with. However, when last I went there (and this was maybe a year ago) they didn't have a single HD screen... awful when you think that ESPN has two HD channels.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WCBS and WNBC are on the "CBS Combiner." Fox is on the ESB, but on their own antenna. ABC is on a different tower, at 4 Times Square.



ABC also moved to the combiner back in the winter.


----------



## smile16

How about the WB? Where are they broadcasting from? ESB?


With my rooftop situation looking hopeless, I am able to "borrow" two HD cable channels (FOX and UPN). I really would like the WB. Does the cable company scramble the HD local channels?


----------



## dturturro

All 6 major nets plus WNET broadcast from the ESB. Fox has it's own antenna and the rest come off of the CBS combiner.


----------



## smile16

thanks dturturro.


----------



## Infominister

And, fwiw, up in northern Westchester I can get WNYW (Fox), WCBS and WABC quite reliably, in that order of signal strength. I get WWOR-DT now and then, but it's often prone to signal break-up. WPIX comes in once in a blue moon -- or some other unusual atmospheric condition -- and WNET and WNBC are blank, i.e., nothing but blips of yellow on my signal meter.


----------



## lacuna




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All 6 major nets plus WNET broadcast from the ESB. Fox has it's own antenna and the rest come off of the CBS combiner.



Have they been doing any maintenance lately after 12AM that would explain the shut downs I've been experiencing?


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ABC also moved to the combiner back in the winter.



WABC-TV is on ESB. I think WABC-DT is still on 4 Times Square. I'll have to check. I also heard that WNET-DT is on ESB at low power, but that wasn't questioned in the earlier post.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WABC-TV is on ESB. I think WABC-DT is still on 4 Times Square. I'll have to check. I also heard that WNET-DT is on ESB at low power, but that wasn't questioned in the earlier post.




Yes, WABC-DT is on the ESB Combiner as its primary transmission point with its previous facility now used as backup on the Conde Nast Building.


And, WNET-DT is on the ESB Combiner, unfortunately at the lowest power transmitted along with its highest channel allocation - both making for very difficult reception.


Gary


----------



## dturturro

Without getting into RF wave propagation, is there a reason why WB & UPN tend to be harder to tune? IIRC both broadcast high power and are in the middle of the spectrum. Could the 33 & 38 being broadcast from CT be interfering with NY 33 & 38?


----------



## mw390

Can anybody tell me how come I'm getting WCBS-DT only if I select channel 56?


----------



## Phil Hightech

Same problem here. The stations PSID is wrong. Does anyone know who to email at WCBS to inform them?


----------



## gpcopy

I havn't been watching latenite TV for a while. But after reading some posts I got curious. First thing I saw David Letterman is now in HD long overdue. Second I did see that the CBS channel mapping is not working so it displays ch56. And third I witnessed the shutdown. After David Letterman about 3 seconds into the next program I lost signal and CBS was dead. Also NBC and FOX. Also WPIX (WB) I havn't been able to lock in at all lately but the last time I did was about a month ago and the channel map didn't worl for that station either. It displayed 33.1. Maybe they're getting the systems to work well for 2006?


GPCOPY


----------



## icemannyr

The Tonight Show is not in HD on WNBC-DT others outside NYC say the show is in HD tonight. Does anyone have a WNBC contact e-mail address or phone # we can call?


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gpcopy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> . After David Letterman about 3 seconds into the next program I lost signal and CBS was dead. Also NBC and FOX. Also WPIX (WB) I havn't been able to lock in at all lately but the last time I did was about a month ago and the channel map didn't worl for that station either. It displayed 33.1. Maybe they're getting the systems to work well for 2006?
> 
> 
> GPCOPY



Does this mean the cable TV and dish co's still lose WCBS-DT also when they goof the air from the ESB?


I know when the ESB work was done last year we would lose WCBS-DT at 12am via Cablevision.


----------



## ITGuy72




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *s2silber* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And, fwiw, up in northern Westchester I can get WNYW (Fox), WCBS and WABC quite reliably, in that order of signal strength. I get WWOR-DT now and then, but it's often prone to signal break-up. WPIX comes in once in a blue moon -- or some other unusual atmospheric condition -- and WNET and WNBC are blank, i.e., nothing but blips of yellow on my signal meter.



What are you using antenna wise there how is it mounted? I'm in Croton on Hudson and hoping to pull all the locals, just haven't got set up yet. I'm planning on a UHF antenna in the attic.


----------



## Infominister

I'm using the Channel Master 4228, the eight-bay one, mounted to my chimney with both an amp and pre-amp. While I'm in a generally high elevation area, my own house is one of the lower ones on the street and I think the Blue Mountain hills are a factor.


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *s2silber* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And, fwiw, up in northern Westchester I can get WNYW (Fox), WCBS and WABC quite reliably, in that order of signal strength. I get WWOR-DT now and then, but it's often prone to signal break-up. WPIX comes in once in a blue moon -- or some other unusual atmospheric condition -- and WNET and WNBC are blank, i.e., nothing but blips of yellow on my signal meter.



Same results in lower Fairfield, CT. Wonder if it has anything to do with transmission pattern - see http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp which displays something called "Transmitter Antenna". This looks like a transmission pattern.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smile16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why are you guys losing HD signals that late at night?
> 
> 
> HDntheCity, yeah that's what I meant. Adding the UHF antenna to existing VHF antenna on my condo building. I get all the analog channels clearly. Antennaweb.org says ESB is like 13-15 miles from where I live in Queens (Bayside). I looked at the Radio Shack website and saw the 40" Boom add on UHF antenna for $24.99. Now it's a matter of getting it installed. Looks complicated.



sorry i took so long to reply-busy at work.


at 15 miles out an indoor antenna would probably work(like the Silver Sensor) but if you got a UHF element at that price it should be even better. good luck with it.


jim


----------



## newhdcrt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gpcopy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I havn't been watching latenite TV for a while. But after reading some posts I got curious. First thing I saw David Letterman is now in HD long overdue. Second I did see that the CBS channel mapping is not working so it displays ch56. And third I witnessed the shutdown. After David Letterman about 3 seconds into the next program I lost signal and CBS was dead. Also NBC and FOX. Also WPIX (WB) I havn't been able to lock in at all lately but the last time I did was about a month ago and the channel map didn't worl for that station either. It displayed 33.1. Maybe they're getting the systems to work well for 2006?
> 
> 
> GPCOPY



I too haven't been watching broadcast tv recently but I checked my channels recently and noticed I had lost CBS and ABC. Thinking the recent winds may have moved my antenna I went up and verified it's direction in accordance with antennaweb.org and it was right on. I even added a preamp and was able to pickup NBC for awhile during the day for the first time, but not at night and still no CBS or ABC. CBS used to have a booming signal for me.


A recan on my Dish 921 now shows CBS on 61 where I can pick it up. The channel maping is wreaking havoc with what used to be a stable 921.


----------



## newhdcrt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *martin21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same results in lower Fairfield, CT. Wonder if it has anything to do with transmission pattern - see http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp which displays something called "Transmitter Antenna". This looks like a transmission pattern.



I checked out this site and noticed that the direction given for the antenna is a few degrees different than that for antennaweb.org. I realize that antennaweb gives it in magnetic north. Is one more accurate than the other?


They alsoshow NBC 28 at around 10 kw. Why so low?


----------



## nhenderson

I've noticed ever since Thursday (maybe longer), that the New York NBC station has been broadcasting in Dolby 3.0 (left, center, right) instead of 5.1. Anyone else having this problem?


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *newhdcrt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I checked out this site and noticed that the direction given for the antenna is a few degrees different than that for antennaweb.org. I realize that antennaweb gives it in magnetic north. Is one more accurate than the other?
> 
> 
> They alsoshow NBC 28 at around 10 kw. Why so low?



Since this is from an FCC database my assumption is that it is more accurate.


I just loaded the page and it shows 200.2 kw trransmission power. The page was just updated today so perhaps your read was based upon an error in the earlier version.


----------



## SnellKrell

The information is terribly old.


I'm amazed it takes so long for updates.


WNBC-DT moved from the G.E. Building to the Combiner on the Empire State

at the beginning of this year.


Gary


----------



## Infominister

Yeah, but WNBC-DT is still much lower power than WCBS-DT, WNYW-DT and WABC-DT.


----------



## SnellKrell

That's true, but it also is transmitting on Channel 28 - less power is need the lower the channel allocation!


Gary


----------



## Infominister

Well, I still can't get it and those three others are pretty strong and reliable now.


----------



## tvuser1

Was something wrong with my reception, or was CSI Miami not up to its usual high quality broadcasting last night? It looked a little mushy to me.


----------



## newhdcrt

I finally have all my ota stations. CBS NBC ABC FOX WOR WB. I manually deleted all the stations, did a hard reboot of my dish 921 rescanned, and there they are. CBS has been remapped to 00201 from 56 and I have a solid NBC for the first time.


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nhenderson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've noticed ever since Thursday (maybe longer), that the New York NBC station has been broadcasting in Dolby 3.0 (left, center, right) instead of 5.1. Anyone else having this problem?



i wouldn't call it a problem per se just the default audio sig. when the network airs a show in 5.1 WNBC-DT usually passes it along unless there's a tech problem.


jim


----------



## LL3HD

Question for you OTA folks


When the Yankees game is on UPN 9, is it in HD?


TIA


----------



## Infominister

As Bush's former spokesperson said back in 2001 about whether the president supported a policy of fuel conservation, "that's a big No."


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LL3HD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question for you OTA folks
> 
> 
> When the Yankees game is on UPN 9, is it in HD?
> 
> 
> TIA



No, 4:3 probably 480P but if you can get the CT stations you can get a 14:9 picture on ch 59 though not quite sure if 1080i


----------



## LL3HD

Thanks,


What a bummer, Friday nights UPN and Saturday's FOX Yankees games, two of the biggest games of the season, will not be broadcast in HD.


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, 4:3 probably 480P but if you can get the CT stations you can get a 14:9 picture on ch 59 though not quite sure if 1080i




not 1080i, unfort.


----------



## fmolina

I live in Manhattan and I lost the DTV Signals of Thirteen WNET Ch 13 two days ago. Did someone know what's going on?


I also lost Channels 50.1 and 50.4. The curious thing is that Channels 50.2 and 50. 3 are working fine...


All these stations are PBS...somenthing happening with them?


Could someone else report the same?



Thanks


----------



## trumpace

I live in Manhattan also and all 3 PBS subchannels come in fine.


Suggest that you phone the engineering department of WNET to ascertain whether or not they are transmitting rather than rely upon hearsay.


----------



## michaelk

can someone please explain-


I thought about 50 pages ago that it was said that to be on the combiner everone would need to have the same power to balance it. It was back when everyone was getting ready to comnine and everyone was asking if the other channels would be using the same power as CBS.


It now appears evident that isn't the case. WNET is certainly a pile less then everyone else.


did I miss something? Or did I just not understand the original explanation? any explanation in laymans terms is appreciated....


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fmolina* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Manhattan and I lost the DTV Signals of Thirteen WNET Ch 13 two days ago. Did someone know what's going on?
> 
> 
> I also lost Channels 50.1 and 50.4. The curious thing is that Channels 50.2 and 50. 3 are working fine...
> 
> 
> All these stations are PBS...somenthing happening with them?
> 
> 
> Could someone else report the same?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks



The signal is there (WNET) but I can't receive it either. It started a couple of days ago. I believe the problem is with the PSIP. WCBS had a similar issue last week but it has since been corrected.


----------



## jaypb

I'm assuming that they were working on the antennas last night again. After Leno there was no signal on 4-1 for Conan (was really hoping to see Jessica Alba in HD)....though I DID forget to try D*'s NBC-E HD feed. Also noticed that 11-1 and 9-1 were off the air as well at the exact same time.


And, for me in Central NJ, on Wednesday night (Soundstage),9pm Channel 50-5 out of Montclair had audio....but no video. ANd 50-1:50-4 had no pic/video as well.


PBS strangeness eh? Just like the old days.....


----------



## fmolina

Thirteen WNET Ch 13: DTV 13.1, 13.2 and 13.3 are back this morning.


I guess like Jaypb that they have been working in the combiner after Midnight in the last week.


----------



## mw390

If anybody's interested Saturday Night Live starts its new season broadcast in HD


----------



## MatthewR

what is the resolution of the channel 5 HD during sporting events? i'd swear it looks like a widescreen 480


----------



## dturturro

You are correct. They won't go to HD until the playoffs.


----------



## mw390

You all are NOT gonna believe this. I have a SIR-T150 and a crappy Silver Sensor. I just made the SIRT150 rescan and I am now getting 4-1,2,3,4,5 6-1,2,3 (WPVI Phila) and 10-1,2 (WCAU Phila). Anybody else?


----------



## ma8466




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You all are NOT gonna believe this. I have a SIR-T150 and a crappy Silver Sensor. I just made the SIRT150 rescan and I am now getting 4-1,2,3,4,5 6-1,2,3 (WPVI Phila) and 10-1,2 (WCAU Phila). Anybody else?



Could be some skipping or trop going on...weather has a tendency to pull in signals from hundreds of miles away, especially if fog or other atmospheric conditions exist.


I pulled in many Philadelphia OTA signals during a fierce thunderstorm one Friday night in August, but sadly, the reception was short lived.











...Mel


----------



## DanC-P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ma8466* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Could be some skipping or trop going on...weather has a tendency to pull in signals from hundreds of miles away, especially if fog or other atmospheric conditions exist.
> 
> 
> I pulled in many Philadelphia OTA signals during a fierce thunderstorm one Friday night in August, but sadly, the reception was short lived.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Mel



Looks like a strong period for tropospheric ducting:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html 


But things should fade by 10/8 (sorry for the bad news)


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DanC-P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like a strong period for tropospheric ducting:
> 
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html
> 
> 
> But things should fade by 10/8 (sorry for the bad news)




Interestingly enough, yesterday I was able to pick up NUMEROUS OTA signals on my HD receiver.....but the only one strong enough to actually come in was WLIW (Digital 22) out of LI...which I never was able to get...other than other TROPO nights way back when. I was only checking up until about 9pm so I don't know if things got better later last night.


I will say that AM Radio wise....where I live in Central NJ for some @$&$ reason the last few days (going back to the middle of last week) I'm getting some NASTY tropo in the sense that 1050 AM (out of NYC--ESPN Radio) is being overloaded when I drive into work in the morning from 1050KCHUM out of TORONTO!!! Pretty clear reception of KCHUM as well.


Go figure.....


----------



## mprh

A quick question for New Yorkers' who receive the fox and abc east feeds from D*tv.

I am hearing impaired and D*tv is not providing closed captions for those channels. I was wondering if you are receiving closed captions from those channels over the air?

Thanks for your help in tracking down the problem. Is it D*tv or the stations.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mprh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A quick question for New Yorkers' who receive the fox and abc east feeds from D*tv.
> 
> I am hearing impaired and D*tv is not providing closed captions for those channels. I was wondering if you are receiving closed captions from those channels over the air?
> 
> Thanks for your help in tracking down the problem. Is it D*tv or the stations.



Just got home and saw your message. Both the ABC and the Fox station here in New York City are providing digital closed captioning over-the-air.


I can get analogue closed captioning via DirecTV, not digital!


Hope this helps.



Gary


----------



## mprh

Gary, thank you so much for responding. last night the digital feed from d*tv of

abc New York finally had the captions, but the fox digital feed being sent by d*v did not .

I receive in Phila over the air ,the local channels provided hi def channels and closed captions . I think that the problem is with D*tv`.

They of course blame the network. I have called the FCC to try to correct this problem

Thanks again,


Marie


----------



## ylomnstr

Does anyone have Suscom digital cable in NY with the HDTV package? I was watching the MLB playoffs on ESPN and I just had the service installed yesterday. I kept getting some pixelation on the ESPN HD channel. The other HD channels seem fine. Tech support doesn't have any reported problems and they are sending someone out here Saturday morning to check. Hopefully it will fix itself by then....


As I was watching more channels, they'd be fine, then all of a sudden start to pixel up and sometimes freeze. I called support again and they resent me a signal, which fixed it sometimes, but not others. Now some of the HD channels don't come in at all. It's like having sattelite again! They have a tech coming out Saturday to check. This sucks...


----------



## RMSko

My antenna is mounted on my roof (attached to my chimney) and I'm using a high gain amp that has both an outdoor mast mounted amp (pre-amp?) and an indoor amp that is connected to a power source. I live about 15 miles from the signal source (the Empire State Building) and am receiving my OTA channels via an HD TiVo's internal tuner. Without the amp, I am unable to get a signal, but with the amp, my signal readings are typically in the 90's. HOwever, about every five minutes or so the signal fluctuates and sometimes goes below 40 for about a half second. The signal fluctuates on some channels (e.g., ABC) much more than others. I should add that there are many trees in the direction that the antenna is facing, all about 60 feet from the antenna. Also, I'm about 10 miles from a very busy airport (Newark International). Does anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## mw390

Does anybody else have a problem getting the front channels on Cold Case? I just get the ancillary music no speaking parts


----------



## CynKennard

mw390,


The sound was supposed to be 5.1 as it became later in the show. Since they were sending out 2.0, only the music and sound effects could be heard. I waited until the end of the first commercial break to see if they corrected it. They didn't so I watched a previously recorded movie. I did watch their movie at 9 p.m. and noticed that they had switched to 5.1 by then.


Cynthia


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CynKennard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> mw390,
> 
> 
> The sound was supposed to be 5.1 as it became later in the show. Since they were sending out 2.0, only the music and sound effects could be heard. I waited until the end of the first commercial break to see if they corrected it. They didn't so I watched a previously recorded movie. I did watch their movie at 9 p.m. and noticed that they had switched to 5.1 by then.
> 
> 
> Cynthia




I switched back to HD about 1/2 way thru and they had gotten their act together. BTW all the commercials came out fine (Of course!)


----------



## mikecoscia

For some reason I can not pick up WNBC-DT, but I can get 2.1, 5.1, 11.1, etc no problem. It says error can not recieve broadcast. I am about 18miles away in NJ from the broadcast station. Anyone else having problems with this station?


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikecoscia* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For some reason I can not pick up WNBC-DT, but I can get 2.1, 5.1, 11.1, etc no problem. It says error can not recieve broadcast. I am about 18miles away in NJ from the broadcast station. Anyone else having problems with this station?




Nope - it's working for me


----------



## jcondon

I don't have surround sound but, had the same problem on both DirecTV NY CBS feed and over the air.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anybody else have a problem getting the front channels on Cold Case? I just get the ancillary music no speaking parts


----------



## martin21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcondon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't have surround sound but, had the same problem on both DirecTV NY CBS feed and over the air.



I had the same problem on Cablevision and OTA. I think it was a problem at the station because the full sound came back later in the program on both.


----------



## shlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikecoscia* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For some reason I can not pick up WNBC-DT, but I can get 2.1, 5.1, 11.1, etc no problem. It says error can not recieve broadcast. I am about 18miles away in NJ from the broadcast station. Anyone else having problems with this station?



I was not able to get WNBC until recently. May be the change of season is affecting reception. I am in Edison, NJ.


----------



## mikecoscia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was not able to get WNBC until recently. May be the change of season is affecting reception. I am in Edison, NJ.



I seem to be getting it now but the reception is really low and I can barely get a lock, most of the time it just says no broadcasting, which I know is wrong. I think it is just my small radio shack double bow-tie antenna. I just ordered a larger antenna from Antennas Direct and am going to mount it in the attic instead of my room, hopefully that resolves the problem. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Infominister

Had awful reception on Sunday -- almost no signal on all OTAs. Could it have been the wind?


----------



## GoldenBoy

All of the OTA's have been coming with no problems for me except WNET. Saturday, 13 starting going crazy with frequent breakups and dropouts and it's still acting as such. This is the worst it's been since they first went up. I had a couple of months of perfect reception and now this. What gives?


----------



## MLM

Last night the reception from the ESB went in and out. I got 8 or 9 bars on my Samsung on Ch. 5 or 2 or 4 or 7 or 11, but from time to time it went down instantly to no bars and the picture would shatter for a moment. On the other hand, I received New Jersey PBS on Channel 50 with about 7 bars and it was perfect all night.


Wind? Multipath? Trees?


My CM 3022 antenna is in the attic in Northeast Queens.


My reception of WNET-DT is at the 3-4 bar level. 4 bars = picture. 3 bars = blank screen. Do I need an amplifier? Any suggestions?


Thanks,


Mel


----------



## dturturro

Since we're talking about WNET-DT, are they still running at half power or have they ramped up to full yet?


----------



## MLM

It certainly looks as though they have not done so yet.


Are we certain that they will ramp up any time soon? Where does that info come from?


----------



## dturturro

FWIW somewhere in this post, WNET went live at half power to test there equipment, but nobody ever posted that the power went to full.


----------



## SnellKrell

All of the stations on the Combiner have been at full power for many, many months.


The problem with WNET-DT is that it transmits on Channel 61, the highest allocation in the area and at only 12.kW. To put this in perspective, WCBS-DT, also having a high position on the dial, Channel 56, transmits at 349 kw.


Put a high channel location combined it with very low power and you have what so many of us have, great difficulty in receiving a quality signal from WNET-DT.


Gary


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All of the stations on the Combiner have been at full power for many, many months.
> 
> 
> The problem with WNET-DT is that it transmits on Channel 61, the highest allocation in the area and at only 12.kW. To put this in perspective, WCBS-DT, also having a high position on the dial, Channel 56, transmits at 349 kw.
> 
> 
> Gary



Are you saying that 12 kW is FULL POWER for WNET-DT and that we will never get more?


Mel


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MLM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night [Sunday] the reception from the ESB went in and out. I got 8 or 9 bars on my Samsung on Ch. 5 or 2 or 4 or 7 or 11, but from time to time it went down instantly to no bars and the picture would shatter for a moment. On the other hand, I received New Jersey PBS on Channel 50 with about 7 bars and it was perfect all night.
> 
> 
> Wind? Multipath? Trees?
> 
> 
> My CM 3022 antenna is in the attic in Northeast Queens.
> 
> 
> My reception of WNET-DT is at the 3-4 bar level. 4 bars = picture. 3 bars = blank screen. Do I need an amplifier? Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Mel



Responding to my own post, last night, Monday, reception was great. No breakups and WNET-DT at about 5-6 bars with no major disruption and only an occasional small blank rectangle in the picture.


Anybody know why it can vary so?


Mel


----------



## SnellKrell

12.4kW is the power currently authorized by the FCC. I don't know if the station has asked the commission for more power. Also, PBS stations are having big financial problems.


When the switchover to digital is completed, WNET-DT will give up analog 13 and digital 61 and will transmit on digital 13.


I know that all of that doesn't answer reception problems.


Gary


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MLM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Responding to my own post, last night, Monday, reception was great. No breakups and WNET-DT at about 5-6 bars with no major disruption and only an occasional small blank rectangle in the picture.
> 
> 
> Anybody know why it can vary so?
> 
> 
> Mel




It was the same for me as well. It seems to be back to normal. I'm thinking the heavy winds we had over the weekend were probably shaking the antenna and causing problems with the already weak WNET-DT signal?


----------



## ITGuy72

Apologies if this is redundant, but does anyone know what the story is with NBC? This is the only local I can't get a lock on from Westchester. Thx


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoldenBoy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was the same for me as well. It seems to be back to normal. I'm thinking the heavy winds we had over the weekend were probably shaking the antenna and causing problems with the already weak WNET-DT signal?



Do you mean shaking the combiner on the ESB? Is it so easily shakeable? It looked like pretty sturdy stuff when the pictures of it went out during installation.


Any comments from an engineer?


My own antenna is now in the attic so it wasn't shaking.


Mel


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MLM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you mean shaking the combiner on the ESB? Is it so easily shakeable? It looked like pretty sturdy stuff when the pictures of it went out during installation.
> 
> 
> Any comments from an engineer?
> 
> 
> My own antenna is now in the attic so it wasn't shaking.
> 
> 
> Mel



No, I meant _my_ antenna. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ITGuy72* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Apologies if this is redundant, but does anyone know what the story is with NBC? This is the only local I can't get a lock on from Westchester. Thx



I can't get it either. I think I may know why I cannot get it. There is low power analog in West Haven broadcasting on channel 28. I think this analog kills my chances of getting WNBC. I get CBS, Fox, UPN and ABC fine from the combiner (on a good night CBS and Fox are at 95%). I can't get WPIX but that is probably due to my proximity to WFSB CBS out of Hartford broadcasting on channel 33.


----------



## ITGuy72




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is low power analog in West Haven broadcasting on channel 28. I think this analog kills my chances of getting WNBC.



A tree might have to fall on that tower or something







Geezz I can't believe that something like that would be allowed to have such an impact on a major metropolitan area...


----------



## hphase

WNET-DT is only broadcasting with enough power to cover Newark, thier city of license. That's all they have to do. (I'm sure they will accept donations and memberships from areas outside Newark, though!)










I don't know what the problem is with WNBC-DT I've got a full power station on channel 28 in Scranton, PA that I think kills it for me. (That's why there's cable.)


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNET-DT is only broadcasting with enough power to cover Newark, thier city of license. That's all they have to do. (I'm sure they will accept donations and memberships from areas outside Newark, though!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what the problem is with WNBC-DT I've got a full power station on channel 28 in Scranton, PA that I think kills it for me. (That's why there's cable.)



Concerning WNET-DT only broadcasting with enough power to cover Newark.


That was the case when the station transmitted from its building on W. 33rd Street using a direction pattern aimed specifically at Newark with only 2.66kW.


The station is now using WCBS's omnidirectional pattern. So, whatever power it is sending to Newark it is sending to all other points on the compass. If the station were only interested in serving Newark, it would never have gone to the big expense of moving to the Empire State Building.


Yes, WNET-DT, as all PBS stations are having financial difficulties. Additionally, the station bought WLIW - another drain on resources. Also, as I mentioned before, the FCC will force WNET-DT to change its digital frequency - more money to be expended.


Bottom, line, I wish the station would increase its power to help me receive it with greater consistancy. I doubt if it will happen before the changeover.


Gary


----------



## hphase

Picky picky picky. All right, WNET-DT is only using enough power to _reach_ Newark. It does go out in all directions from the ESB. It probably goes past Newark, but it does not reach me. As you intimated, they will increase power only when forced to do so. Multipath (ghosts) eat up a lot of threshold margin, so receiving them in NYC is not always assured with low power. I've used one of the "new" Radio Shack DTV tuners in Manhattan, and it gets most of the NY stations, even with the antenna pointed away from the ESB, but not 13/61. Not enough power to overcome multipath, I assume. It also seems like 13 may be moving back to channel 13 after the transition. And then there's the Freedom Tower.


WNET was loaned an additional frequency to transmit on during the transition. They will have to give one back. Unfortunately, their loaner channel ended up outside the "core" and couldn't be used (not that they would choose to stay on 61 if they could avoid it.) WCBS had a good chance that _both_ of their channels would be outside the core, and had to build an omnidirectional, multichannel antenna to cover any eventuality. Time will tell where they end up, but I'd bet against them staying on channel 2.


It looks like I will still have to use a directional V/U antenna if I want to get HDTV OTA.


----------



## MLM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNET-DT is only broadcasting with enough power to cover Newark, thier city of license. That's all they have to do. (I'm sure they will accept donations and memberships from areas outside Newark, though!)



Newark is about 11 miles from the Empire State Building. Here in NE Queens we are almost exactly the same distance away, exept in almost exactly the opposite direction. The signal here is quite marginal even with a CM 3022, and if I understand the set-up it must be marginal also in Newark. So they cannot be serving their "required" service area very well at the current level of power.


Am I missing something here? Anyone here in Newark?


All other NYC stations come in very strong as does the NJ PBS station at 51 remapped to 50. That station is about 24 miles away.


Mel


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *s2silber* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm using the Channel Master 4228, the eight-bay one, mounted to my chimney with both an amp and pre-amp. While I'm in a generally high elevation area, my own house is one of the lower ones on the street and I think the Blue Mountain hills are a factor.



forgive me if this is stupid and you already know i'm wrong- but perhaps you are overpowering the signal with 2 amps?


I'm at around 50 miles from ESB and just need the pre-amp. I'm about 40 miles from philly and can get by for all those without any amp at all with my 4228 in the attic. Since you are presumably closer maybe you need to use less amp. (Of course the hills there might be getting in your way...)


----------



## Steve L

Does anyone know if or when we'll actually see the NYC channel 13 program schedule in 16:9, full-screen HD? The PBS national feed we're getting instead leaves a lot to be desired, IMHO.


I've e-mailed WNET support several times, and still haven't received a reply, in spite of the fact that I'm a contributing member!


/steve


----------



## sxr71

I live hardly a stone's throw from the ESB, alright maybe half a mile away in the FDR direction and I can't get any channel except CBS-DT when my indoor antenna is in a specific position. I tried picking up analog signals and I got pretty much every terrestial station on analog but I can't get anything on digital. I got a Channel Master pre-amp and it does nothing to help my digital reception here. Does anyone think I need an attenuator more than I need an amp?


I am using the directional antenna that came with my ATI-HDTV wonder and the HDTV-Wonder card. Is this just a bad card for getting reception?


----------



## SnellKrell

I live in the East 60s near 2nd Avenue. I'm on the 22nd floor of a high rise with living room windows facing west.


You mention that you can only get WCBS-DT when your antenna is in a specific position.


Well, digital UHF will drive you crazy in Manhattan - you have to walk your antenna around the room and try, if possible, to find one location that works for many stations. You are dealing with multipath reception - not direct signals from the ESB.


I use a Silver Sensor, very directional, and I'm very pleased with it. You may want to try one.


Gary


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if anyone else had intermittent pixelation/breakups during the UT-UA game yesterday afternoon? I watched it on one TV and DVR'd it on another...with BOTH being hooked up to an OTA antenna...and BOTH had breakups at the same time. It was raining yesterday...and it was a bit breezy...so I'm not sure if it was my setup or the weather....or the transmission itself.


I didn't feel like tuning to D*'s feed of WCBS-DT so I couldn't tell if that had issues as well. And I haven't posted a thread or looked for one over on the HD programming forum yet.


Thanks!


----------



## dturturro

sxr, you may be OVER driving your receiver. If you're getting analog signals without ghosts then you aren't suffering from multi path. If you're using a preamp you may want to take it out and see if that clears things up. If it does but you're still missing channels you may need an attenuator to cut down on the signal.


----------



## jaypb

Was futzing around with my rotor tonight on one of my HD receivers/antennas and was actually able to pick up WNET-DT (13-1) this evening after 11 pm (Tornado program).


Signal strength was up near 70-80% on my D* receiver, but I will say with all the rain lately I've been having problems with steady reception on normally stable channels (i.e "CSI-MIAMI" last night) as well as other CBS shows over the last few weeks at times with all the rain/wind.


Haven't tried my other OTA setup to see if I can pick up 13-1 on that one yet.


----------



## ITGuy72

Croton on Hudson, NY...


Must admit I was a little sceptical at first, but I'm now able to pull all the locals in HD from a DB4 in my attic. This was recommended to me as its the highest gain solution, and combined with a channel master 7777 gave me full strengtha across all the local stations with no dropouts. The RCA antenna I originally purchased from Home Depot just didn't cut it. I would highly recommend the DB4.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ITGuy72* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Croton on Hudson, NY...
> 
> 
> Must admit I was a little sceptical at first, but I'm now able to pull all the locals in HD from a DB4 in my attic. This was recommended to me as its the highest gain solution, and combined with a channel master 7777 gave me full strengtha across all the local stations with no dropouts. The RCA antenna I originally purchased from Home Depot just didn't cut it. I would highly recommend the DB4.



What is the DB4? As you can see in my ID, I live right near you and all I can get with a roof-mounted CM 4228 and same amp'/pre-amp are 2-1, 5-1 and 7-1 -- and, lately, reception has been very spotty.


----------



## ITGuy72

The DB4 was recommended to me by solid signal. It's a new product by Terrestrial Digital, has 2 bays and the bowties. Took a a little monkeying around to get it at the right angle and orientation in the attic but once positioned all the locals are locked in 90+% (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, WB, UPN) and PBS hovers around 30-50% but thats no biggie.


----------



## Anthony in NYC

Manufacturer's website
http://www.antennasdirect.com/


----------



## RMSko

Has anyone been experiencing any problems with CBS lately. Just for the past few days it has been jumping around all over the place.


----------



## K2FIX

Odd. Here in Croton, NY, I have 70-90 % for all the channels, save for NJN, which comes in 65%. Otherwise, I've eliminated all analog channels save for 13 and 25. I'm already fully digital.










Of Course, like any good radio amateur, I know any receiver is secondary to the antenna, so much of the credit goes to a Radio Shack Fringe antenna on the roof, and pointed down river toward NYC. I'm 42 miles north, but don't need a rotor or preamp-the antenna's big but so what ? I feed three sets, and the other two, normal NTSC 480i sets, get as perfect a picture as you can get at that resolution. I cannot watch most cable (CATV) feeds any more, as they are horrible.


As much metal, as high up, as you can get it, is a basic rule. If you have an apartment, then things are a lot tougher......but if you have a private home, then it's sorta silly to spend 4k on a TV, and complain about $250 worth of antenna, mounts and coax cable.


I can trip a ham radio repeater on the ESB with 10 watts from here, so I clearly have a line of sight from my position on the ridge.


13.1 etc were the last to arrive, but they are also rock solid. Only really bad weather will cause drop outs.


After having real HDTV in the house for a year or so now, we call regular TV Blur-o- Vision.


----------



## vinnyv07

Hello everyone....I live in Staten Island and decided to do a scan for any new ch's and I came up with CBS from Philly! First time ever towards that I came up with that ch. I don't have my Ant pointing towards Philly , it points towards the ESB. I was suprised ....anyone else grabbing CBS from Philly in the Staten Island area....or from New Jersey? As I write this I have lost the sig for CBS in Philly...but it would be really cool if I could get the ch on a reg basis to pull in some more football in HD.


----------



## Roger Lococco

I'm in Jamaica,Queens,and have the Accurian hooked up to an analog set.Initially I used an old Recoton 575,I was able to receive 4.1,4.2,7.1,7.2 fairly strongly,with a moderate amount of glitches,and 9.1(UPN) and 9.2(WNYW) less strongly,but still watchable.2.1 comes in sporadically,sometime a few minutes goes by without glitches,but the inevitable picture freezes always occurs.I am unable to tune in WB11 or any PBS stations. I then hooked up the new RCA ANT 525,a 45db amplified antenna that's showing up at Best Buy and Sears,reception was much improved,less glitches, and I can get 41.1(Univision) sporadically.The Accurian scanned and stored the NJN 58 stations,but I am unable to see any picture,except for a few still frames ocassionally.Still can't lock onto WB11 or PBS.

Yesterday I picked up the RS 15 1880,after all the rave reviews,I was expecting incredible reception,I was unable to lock on to a station for any length of time,quite frankly it's a POS.It also seemed to degrade the picture quality,images looked somewhat "hazy".


----------



## k2koq

One NJ NPR station 5 of them...perhaps they could put some music formats we can't get on FM on _them_.. country-standards-oldies... whatever


If every broadcaster put up 5 audio only channels we would have a whole new digital music service.


I got the new Sony A10 and it has a *very* sensitive over the air receiver.


----------



## k2koq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anybody else have a problem getting the front channels on Cold Case? I just get the ancillary music no speaking parts



Sounds ok to me...channel 11 digital has a strange audio mix...way to much in the back speakers


----------



## RMSko

I've read some posts about multipath issues causing OTA signals to jump around. I live near NYC and was wondering whether multipath problems could affect only one source, but not others, even when they are all coming from the same location. ABC, CBS and NBC all come from the combiner located at the Empire State Building. ABC and NBC come in great and are "locked" in, however, CBS jumps around all over the place. Is it likely that this is a multipath issue and if so, why doesn't it affect the other local stations? If not, is it likely that it's just the source? Any other thougths?


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2koq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds ok to me...channel 11 digital has a strange audio mix...way to much in the back speakers




The problem got corrected by the middle of the program. It was definitely the HD "guys" or whatever because the local commercials came in ok


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RMSko* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've read some posts about multipath issues causing OTA signals to jump around. I live near NYC and was wondering whether multipath problems could affect only one source, but not others, even when they are all coming from the same location. ABC, CBS and NBC all come from the combiner located at the Empire State Building. ABC and NBC come in great and are "locked" in, however, CBS jumps around all over the place. Is it likely that this is a multipath issue and if so, why doesn't it affect the other local stations? If not, is it likely that it's just the source? Any other thougths?



Yes, multipath distortion can disturb different signals from the same point source to different degrees. One reason is different channels have different wavelengths and their reflections may recombine in different ways. Another is power level which may affect the situation (more could be worse OR more could be better) The antenna may affect the equation also. Having said all this to then say this is your problem would not be an easy call. If the antenna can be moved or rotated you may want to try that and see what happens. Try an attenuator also. Check all your connections to be sure they are good. CBS is a high channel compared to the others and may be affected to a higher degree by a poor connection.


----------



## K2FIX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vinnyv07* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello everyone....I live in Staten Island and decided to do a scan for any new ch's and I came up with CBS from Philly! First time ever towards that I came up with that ch. I don't have my Ant pointing towards Philly , it points towards the ESB. I was suprised ....anyone else grabbing CBS from Philly in the Staten Island area....or from New Jersey? As I write this I have lost the sig for CBS in Philly...but it would be really cool if I could get the ch on a reg basis to pull in some more football in HD.



Philly comes in very often here in Croton. I have had nights where I got 3, 6, and 8 from philly. OK, 6 and 8 are rare, but 3 is a very common sight. I've even had it come in better than 2 from NYC on occasion.


At these frequencies, tropospheric bending is the means of long distance propagation, usually when weather fronts come through. The higher the frequency the less likely the station to "bend" and follow the earth, so while I've seen channel 3 from philly many times, I think I've only seen channel 10 once or twice.


At UHF, this is much less likely, so any DX on digital is probably moreso a good antenna with a line of sight. Still, not impossible.......


----------



## icemannyr

News ran long due to election coverage and I guess WNBC still can't record and playback network HD programming so no HD for either show?


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RMSko* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've read some posts about multipath issues causing OTA signals to jump around. I live near NYC and was wondering whether multipath problems could affect only one source, but not others, even when they are all coming from the same location. ABC, CBS and NBC all come from the combiner located at the Empire State Building. ABC and NBC come in great and are "locked" in, however, CBS jumps around all over the place. Is it likely that this is a multipath issue and if so, why doesn't it affect the other local stations? If not, is it likely that it's just the source? Any other thougths?



Yes frequency plays a part in multipath problems. I also had a problem with CBS. I get all ESB stations at 100%. CBS however, would jump all around whenever it was damp or raining. After much experimentation I found that the SS-1000 Square Shooter antenna solved the problem for my location. It is circurally polarized and less susceptible to multipath. If possible try moving the antenna to a different part of the roof. Experimentation is key to solving problems like yours. Good Luck!


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> News ran long due to election coverage and I guess WNBC still can't record and playback network HD programming so no HD for either show?



Both late shows are watered down and unfunny.


----------



## sabt

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE W/ TERK HTDVi ANTENNA:


This thing is no better in receiving HD than a pair of broken dipole antennas that came with a 20 yr old TV. Granted I get better analog reception but that's only b/c the Terk's dipoles are much longer than my 20yr olds. I attached the Terk to a splitter so that i can get both analog and HD. The Terk is pointed west (that would be my living room wall) and the reception is ok, not great (stutters every 5 mins. or so). You guys think a silver sensor would be better? or a cheap $10 RCA antenna from Target??? I'll be returning this $40 piece of junk to Circuit City.


It's weird that i can't have both ABC and NBC optimized at the same time. I'd have to turn the Terk 180 degrees to watch either channel.


I live in an apt bldg in Bayside with no windows facing west or south, only north. But the bldg itself has a clear shot of manhattan. I am no longer receiving unencrypted TWC. Not even encrypted. Don't know why. cable cut in bldg??? oh well...good while it lasted...


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's weird that i can't have both ABC and NBC optimized at the same time. I'd have to turn the Terk 180 degrees to watch either channel.



with the RCA 525,basically the same orientation works for NBC and ABC,CBS requires a slight shift in position.UPN and FOX seem to be on the same orientation,If I tune in one,I know I'll get the other.


----------



## jayhui339

Hi everybody


I just like to say the DB2 is a great, I brought it around 2 weeks ago and the reception is awesome.


I live in a 2 story house with a big tree in the back, I just put it out the first floor window facing manhattan (live in Brooklyn) and the reception is awesome.


Highly recommended antenna for a great price too.


Monday night football was awesome.


----------



## Phil Hightech

Awesome!







Free digital TV... can't beat it.

-Phil


----------



## festerjets33

Has Telemundo gone live yet?


It's WNJU-DT (Enter zip code 11237 in antennaweb.org (that's in Brooklyn)). Channel 36.


----------



## harican

During the showing of Volcano on Saturday, November 19, 2005


The audio for Volcano was normal, but the video was that of the SKYFOX helicopter flying over New York City filming in HD.


The logo on the top right was SKYFOX HD,


I guess this means that we will soon be seing HDTV news from FOX 5 with helicopter coverage in HDTV via this new means.


I will post some photos later.


----------



## trekkerj

saw it too, you beat me to it.


----------



## rcliff

Yea, I just saw that too while flipping channels. It was a shot of the Empire State Building with Yankee stadium in the background. When it came on they were talking about an earthquake and it seemed like news coverage but it was the sound from the movie. Freaky!


----------



## rcliff

Note, it was on the DirecTV feed too


----------



## icemannyr

WNYW just ran a promo for "SkyFOX-HD comming soon!"


Since the SD upconvert of local WNYW programming is real bad this should make the video much better if the news cast is not an upconvert.


----------



## huggybear

Hi all, I am about to go up on the roof of my 3-story Brooklyn apt bldg to install a sat dish... I figure I'd better install an antenna while I am up there.


I need this antenna just to pick up the local CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX stations in HDTV to be displayed via my Dish 6000 and Sanyo Z2 projector. There are no obstructions and I believe all these stations transmit from the Empire State bldg.


I would really like to order one of the antennas from this page since I am ordering my LNBs from there... just in case outside links aren't allowed I will also post the model names of the ones I am interested below.

http://electrogalaxy.dtopinc.com/in...utdoor-antennas 


I am really interested in the "Terk Hdtvo Amplified Outdoor Hdtv Antenna" seeing as how it is pretty compact and can go on the same mast as the dish.


But is an amplified antenna not recommended for my urban location? If not, how about the "ZENITH GEMDTV1 Outdoor UHF/HDTV/DTV/Analog Antenna"??


And what's up with the "Terk Tertv32 Uhf-only Small Directional Hdtv Outdoor Antenna" - it is a completely different style!?


Thanks in advance,


Huggybear


----------



## Anthony in NYC

Where in Brooklyn are you. I am also in Brooklyn and I will highly recommend the DB4. I have a little experience with the Terk and didn't like them. I also tried the Winegard squareshooter. I found the DB4 performed the best. I am in the East Flatbush section of Brooklyn and manage to get all of my locals in HD OTA. Previously, I lived in Sunset Park Brooklyn and had similiar results.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *huggybear* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all, I am about to go up on the roof of my 3-story Brooklyn apt bldg to install a sat dish... I figure I'd better install an antenna while I am up there.
> 
> 
> I need this antenna just to pick up the local CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX stations in HDTV to be displayed via my Dish 6000 and Sanyo Z2 projector. There are no obstructions and I believe all these stations transmit from the Empire State bldg.
> 
> 
> I would really like to order one of the antennas from this page since I am ordering my LNBs from there... just in case outside links aren't allowed I will also post the model names of the ones I am interested below.
> 
> http://electrogalaxy.dtopinc.com/in...utdoor-antennas
> 
> 
> I am really interested in the "Terk Hdtvo Amplified Outdoor Hdtv Antenna" seeing as how it is pretty compact and can go on the same mast as the dish.
> 
> 
> But is an amplified antenna not recommended for my urban location? If not, how about the "ZENITH GEMDTV1 Outdoor UHF/HDTV/DTV/Analog Antenna"??
> 
> 
> And what's up with the "Terk Tertv32 Uhf-only Small Directional Hdtv Outdoor Antenna" - it is a completely different style!?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
> Huggybear


----------



## huggybear

Hi Anthony, I am in Bushwick (DeKalb @ Myrtle area). Thanks for the tip - the DB4 sounds like a winner... so you get ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX all at good signal levels?


huggybear


----------



## harican

I have some brand new Terk TV35 antennas in the box - sealed.


I am located in the Bronx, New York.


I am asking for $75.00, here is a link to the product on another website.



http://www.soundcity.com/products/2421.html?tr=froogle 

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANTV35


----------



## SnellKrell

Has anyone else been bothered by the very low audio levels on WNBC-DT?


I have to turn my volume to about 3/4s way up to get a normal listening level.

Of course, when I switch channels, the other stations just blast through.


DirecTV's feed, which is off-air, doesn't bother to compensate for the low audio level.


With all the problems that NBC has had with HD, I know this is a small problem and a local one - but it's so easy to remedy.


General Sarnoff just rotated, once again, in his grave.


Gary


----------



## trend1

Happy Thanksgiving all! My OTA signal was in and out all morning is anyone else having this problem?


Thanks, Tony


----------



## SnellKrell

Only problem that I noticed this morning was with WABC-DT.


O-T-A, picture kept breaking up.


In fact, DirecTV used a courtesy card stating that they couldn't provide

this station's signal at this time.


Everything OK now.


Gary


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trend1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving all! My OTA signal was in and out all morning is anyone else having this problem?
> 
> 
> Thanks, Tony



I noticed it on ABC and NBC,couldn't figure out why,since I was getting 80+ signal strength on my Accurian.


----------



## jaypb

ABC-DT OTA is all mangled eh???


Just hooked up my HD TIVO and was about ready to go BALLISTIC till I checked D*'s ABC HD feed and noticed the "experiencing technical difficulties" card described a few posts back for NBC-DT.


Is the cable (Comcast/TWC/Cablevision) signal for ABC-DT available tonight?? I wanted to see how Finding Nemo looked with my new set up.....so much for that


----------



## shlin

I am getting the same problem. Looks like WABC's HD signal is all messed up.


----------



## CPanther95

Changed another thread to the New York, NY - DBS thread. Use that thread for discussion of satellite delivered locals, and the pending (December) rollout of MPEG4 NYC locals.


----------



## Linux23

anyone not getting Surface in HD on WNBCHD?


----------



## jcondon

Caught a bit of skyfox in HD on Monday night's news on FOX. I am recording tomorrows news to see if they show more of it. Looked really cool but, only saw it for about 5 seconds.


----------



## jcondon

I have some trouble picking up WPIX, WNet. I currently have a square shooter antenna and CM777 preamp. Most of the other channels I care about come in well. With some occasion dropouts but, really not that bad.


I am considering maybe an antenna in the attic. I really don't want to put a big antenna on the roof.


Anyway do you think a CM4228 would pick up WNET on VHF 13? Some say the CM4228 picks up the upper VHF channels ok. Or should I look at some other antenna that also picks up VHF as well as UHF?


Thanks...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When the switchover to digital is completed, WNET-DT will give up analog 13 and digital 61 and will transmit on digital 13.
> 
> 
> I know that all of that doesn't answer reception problems.
> 
> 
> Gary


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Linux23* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone not getting Surface in HD on WNBCHD?



I just watched it on my DVR and it was in SD widescreen the entire time. Who is in charge of flipping the HD switch at NBC? They seem to have a problem with that


----------



## jcondon

Might be a good thing for many. Wont many people lose several stations that are moving to VHF if they have UHF antennas.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is doubtful that any meaningful changes will be made until the switchover to the new channel allocations probably late in 2008.
> 
> 
> So, I guess were stuck with what we have!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcondon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have some trouble picking up WPIX, WNet. I currently have a square shooter antenna and CM777 preamp. Most of the other channels I care about come in well. With some occasion dropouts but, really not that bad.
> 
> 
> I am considering maybe an antenna in the attic. I really don't want to put a big antenna on the roof.
> 
> 
> Anyway do you think a CM4228 would pick up WNET on VHF 13? Some say the CM4228 picks up the upper VHF channels ok. Or should I look at some other antenna that also picks up VHF as well as UHF?
> 
> 
> Thanks...



In your response above are you talking about WNET analog or WNET digital (Digital 61 or 63 IIRC)? Same goes for WPIX (Digital 33).


I have a CM4228 (which I currently have hooked up to a CM UHF only--not sure what the model # is) but before I had it hooked up to the pre-amp, out here in Central NJ, I was actually able to pick up analog 2/4/5/7/9 and 11...not without static mind you....but they were watchable. Once I hooked up the pre-amp those channels were blocked out.


Not sure where you are located, but you *should* be able to pick up 13 Analog...but not sure why you'd want to


----------



## jcondon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In your response above are you talking about WNET analog or WNET digital (Digital 61 or 63 IIRC)? Same goes for WPIX (Digital 33).



I was talking about the digital channels. At some point WPIXDT will be on vhf-13 and 2 or 3 other DT channels that are currently UHF will be on even lower VHF channels.


I am considering the antenna you have and already have a Channel Master CM7777 preamp (this one I think does VHF as well). But, wondering if I would be better off long term with antenna that does VHF and UHF.


Or perhaps by then DirecTV or whoever I am using will offer WPIX and WNET in HD.


Looks like they may not be moving to VHF anytime soon (several years) if that is the case then I might just get the best UHF antenna I can and go with that for now.


----------



## NYHeel

First off I'm in Bergen County. I had my HDTivo installed this afternoon with an OTA antenna. Unfortunately the installer didn't install the antenna on my roof but instead put it about 60% up my house on the siding. It's a few feet on top of where my satellite dish is. Well my CBS HD, NBC HD and I think my UPN HD doesn't come in well. The signal fades in and out maxing at 45 or 50. Fox and ABC come in well. What's weird is that on antennaweb.org all of my networks are either at 11.2 miles or 11.7 miles all in the same direction. I copied my antenna web read out for digital channels. Is there anything I can do to fix this? The thing is I don't think I can reach the antenna.


One other thing about the installation. The installer used a coupler (the opposite of diplexor) out at the dish to put the antenna and satellite on to one wire running into the house. He then used a diplexor right before running the lines into a 4x8 multiswitch and ran the antenna line from the diplexor to the tivo. Could all of this splitting and combining be hurting the antenna signal?


I think I'm going to go out and buy the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor one and see if that works (probably won't because the tv is in my basement). If it does work I'll just ask directv to credit me the $50 since the installer didn't even put the antenna on the roof.



DTV Antenna

Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live

Date Compass

Orientation Miles

From Frequency

Assignment

* yellow - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 UPN SECAUCUS NJ 186° 11.7 38

* yellow - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 i NEW YORK NY 193° 14.2 30

* yellow - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 186° 11.7 44

* yellow - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 WB NEW YORK NY 186° 11.7 33

* yellow - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 186° 11.7 40

* yellow - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 263° 10.5 51

* yellow - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN NJ TBD 193° 14.2 36

* yellow - uhf WFME-DT 66.1 REL WEST MILFORD NJ 248° 15.5 29

* yellow - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 186° 11.7 56

* yellow - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 186° 11.2 45

* green - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 186° 11.7 61

* lt green - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK NJ 186° 11.2 53

* lt green - uhf WTBY-DT 54.1 TBN POUGHKEEPSIE NY 18° 39.6 27

* lt green - uhf WRNN-DT 48.1 IND KINGSTON NY 18° 39.6 48

* red - uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON NJ 295° 30.9 18

* violet - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 184° 11.1 28


----------



## Hanker

I am a newbie to OTA DTV and have been experimenting with a Zenith Silver Sensor using a Samsung SIR-T451 tuner. With the antenna indoors, I can get a lot of channels, but have to keep re-positioning. Outdoors, I get about 12 channels (not counting the sub-channels). However, I feel I must go the next step to a larger antenna.


My question is whether the antenna should be the non-directional (bow-tie) or directional (Yagi) type. I do not want to use a rotor and I am about 20 miles from the Roxborough transmitters. My preference for the next step is to try mounting it in the attic. I have heard that the non-directional could have ghosting and multipath problems, whereas the directional might be too directional and need rotating.


I would appreciate advice from anyone with reception experience in the Mount Laurel or Medford NJ area. Also, anyone's opinion on the directional vs. non-directional would also be appreciated.


----------



## Signalseeker

Does anyone know what WNBC's status is i.e., are they at full power etc? I can't get a whiff of their signal. This is the only station in NYC I can't get in. WPIX is the second worse but at least I get a hit. I wonder if WNBC plan on expanding their signal profile. Last profile I saw shows their signal was primarily focused NE towards Ct. Thanks for any info.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC-DT has been at full power since before the spring.


That's the signal and more than likely the way it will remain from

the Empire State Building.


Gary


----------



## Roger Lococco

reception on ABC-DT is extremely poor this morning.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, major reception problems with WABC-DT.


In fact, DirecTV has courtesy card up stating that there are technical difficulties.


Gary


----------



## HDntheCity




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYHeel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First off I'm in Bergen County. I had my HDTivo installed this afternoon with an OTA antenna. Unfortunately the installer didn't install the antenna on my roof but instead put it about 60% up my house on the siding. It's a few feet on top of where my satellite dish is. Well my CBS HD, NBC HD and I think my UPN HD doesn't come in well. The signal fades in and out maxing at 45 or 50. Fox and ABC come in well. What's weird is that on antennaweb.org all of my networks are either at 11.2 miles or 11.7 miles all in the same direction. I copied my antenna web read out for digital channels. Is there anything I can do to fix this? The thing is I don't think I can reach the antenna.
> 
> 
> One other thing about the installation. The installer used a coupler (the opposite of diplexor) out at the dish to put the antenna and satellite on to one wire running into the house. He then used a diplexor right before running the lines into a 4x8 multiswitch and ran the antenna line from the diplexor to the tivo. Could all of this splitting and combining be hurting the antenna signal?
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to go out and buy the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor one and see if that works (probably won't because the tv is in my basement). If it does work I'll just ask directv to credit me the $50 since the installer didn't even put the antenna on the roof.
> 
> 
> 
> DTV Antenna
> 
> Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
> 
> Date Compass
> 
> Orientation Miles
> 
> From Frequency
> 
> Assignment
> 
> * yellow - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 UPN SECAUCUS NJ 186° 11.7 38
> 
> * yellow - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 i NEW YORK NY 193° 14.2 30
> 
> * yellow - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 186° 11.7 44
> 
> * yellow - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 WB NEW YORK NY 186° 11.7 33
> 
> * yellow - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 186° 11.7 40
> 
> * yellow - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 263° 10.5 51
> 
> * yellow - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN NJ TBD 193° 14.2 36
> 
> * yellow - uhf WFME-DT 66.1 REL WEST MILFORD NJ 248° 15.5 29
> 
> * yellow - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 186° 11.7 56
> 
> * yellow - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 186° 11.2 45
> 
> * green - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 186° 11.7 61
> 
> * lt green - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK NJ 186° 11.2 53
> 
> * lt green - uhf WTBY-DT 54.1 TBN POUGHKEEPSIE NY 18° 39.6 27
> 
> * lt green - uhf WRNN-DT 48.1 IND KINGSTON NY 18° 39.6 48
> 
> * red - uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON NJ 295° 30.9 18
> 
> * violet - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 184° 11.1 28



i'm guessing two things:


1. your antenna needs to be higher.


2. the splitting & recombining is indeed weakening the signal that gets to your tuner.



to cure problem #1 you'll need to get an installer(a DIFFERENT one IMO) to reposition the antenna. and while he's there have him do solution #2 and run a dedicated cable from antenna to tuner(unless you don't want any more holes in your walls, in which case an in-line amp could compensate for signal loss).


also in think the parameters for WNBC-DT are outdated. they're at full power on the ESB combiner & the azimuth should be 186 degrees.




jim


----------



## HDugan

What is the farthest point from the Empire State building that anyone here is actually receiving HD from CBS, NBC, FOX, and ABC???


Location? How many miles????


----------



## dturturro

You may want to ask that ? in the Eastern Long Island and Central NJ threads. You may be surprised at how far away some people are.


----------



## NYHeel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDntheCity* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i'm guessing two things:
> 
> 
> 1. your antenna needs to be higher.
> 
> 
> 2. the splitting & recombining is indeed weakening the signal that gets to your tuner.
> 
> 
> 
> to cure problem #1 you'll need to get an installer(a DIFFERENT one IMO) to reposition the antenna. and while he's there have him do solution #2 and run a dedicated cable from antenna to tuner(unless you don't want any more holes in your walls, in which case an in-line amp could compensate for signal loss).
> 
> 
> also in think the parameters for WNBC-DT are outdated. they're at full power on the ESB combiner & the azimuth should be 186 degrees.
> 
> jim



I actually had him come back and he told me that his signal meter didn't give any better signal on my roof either. I wasn't home so I don't know if he was telling me the truth or not. Also, I thought that the diplexor's don't cause a signal loss. I guess I'm just going to use the Directv NY locals that they provide in the 80s channels. I just wanted to get WB and UPN also.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYHeel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I actually had him come back and he told me that his signal meter didn't give any better signal on my roof either. I wasn't home so I don't know if he was telling me the truth or not. Also, I thought that the diplexor's don't cause a signal loss. I guess I'm just going to use the Directv NY locals that they provide in the 80s channels. I just wanted to get WB and UPN also.



I find it hard to believe that his meter gave him "the same" levels on the roof. At the very least there should have been a few db difference from cable loss going down to your TV. I'm not 100%, but i'm pretty sure diplexors have like .5db insertion loss to them.


where in Bergen co. are you? I was living in Hasbrouck Heights, in an apartment on the ground floor, and had a small terk outdoor antenna that i mounted in one of my closets and had no problem getting all the NY locals on a first generation HD tuner.


First what kind of antenna did the installer put in, since you say its mounted on teh side of your house by the dish i'm picturing one of those square plastic units. Go get a REAL antenna and put it on the roof if thats the case, most will agree those look nice but are crap.


----------



## Roger Lococco

not receiving any picture or sound on ABC-DT,although I am getting 70+ signal strength on the meter.


----------



## SnellKrell

No problems, coming in loud and clear!


Gary


----------



## dturturro

I just had to rescan on my 942 and I'm not getting WABC-DT either.


----------



## Scott G

For some reason WABC-DT seems to have moved to its UHF channel number or 45.1 yesterday from 7.1. I had to rescan it in to my Dish Network 811 on channel 45.1 and it works. I think the PSIP is messed up for this channel.


----------



## Roger Lococco

thanks Scott,I just rescanned my Accurian and received ABC on 45.1.It also scanned in NBC 4.4,that's the first time this channel has shown up in a scan(there's nothing there,although I'm getting 80+ signal strength).


----------



## Scott G

Yes, I also saw 4.4 now, too. I also see that WNBC-DT is on 28.1 and 4.1. Sort of a strange thing. It seems like WNBC is fooling around with a new multicast channel.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scott G* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I also saw 4.4 now, too. I also see that WNBC-DT is on 28.1 and 4.1. Sort of a strange thing. It seems like WNBC is fooling around with a new multicast channel.




Let's hope not!


Just remember that each additional multicast channel means more compression of the 6mHz bandwidth, and diminishes the quality of the main HD channel.


Gary


----------



## dturturro

Gary, what are you receiving ABC on? I can't pick up 7-1 or 45-1 on either my 942 or my HD TiVo. I am picking it up on the bird channel 86, but zip OTA.


UPDATE: Ok, I'm getting some blips on 45-1. The signal meter is booming but the video comes in and out. Also, I notice that my Zenith HDR230 is now getting guide data for NBC when it never has before. Maybe this is why we're all seeing 4-4?


----------



## Kevin L

Hi, Guys.


I'm having the same problem with 7.1 (didn't try 7.2). I called ABC NY and asked for engineering. They seemed really concerned and put an engineer on the phone. His name is Pete. He wanted to know where I was and when and what was happening. If any others want to call in, he said that would help them to fix it. His name is Pete in engineering, and the number is 212.456.1000. Press 3 to get the operator and ask for engineering.


----------



## Roger Lococco

just noticed that there's programming on 4.4 now,it appears to be random segments from WNBC news programs,i.e.,Asa Aron's consumer reports,a segment about holiday shopping with Darlene Rodriguez,Jeffrey Lyons interviewing Chaz Palmiteri,etc.


----------



## Scott G

Yes, I noticed that on 4.4, too. I guess they are testing for a new channel.


----------



## gawarner

I worked at ABC-NY for years so I was able to use my contacts to get thru to someone in engineering. It seems there have been several reports of trouble and WABC received a call from DIRECTV alerting them to a problem with HD reception and their receiver. This afternoon (Wednesday) WABC sent someone to the transmitter to check on the problem. (In the old days, the transmitter was staffed 24/7, but it seems in these cost-cutting days, they only send someone down there to collect the mail!)


I have not had WABC-DT (7.1. and 7.2) since Monday on my Hughes hr10-250 directivo receiver -- though when I do a signal strength test on channel 45, I get a solid 95 percent. Someone is wrong, very wrong. Hopefully, they can get to the bottom of it!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gawarner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I worked at ABC-NY for years so I was able to use my contacts to get thru to someone in engineering. It seems there have been several reports of trouble and WABC received a call from DIRECTV alerting them to a problem with HD reception and their receiver. This afternoon (Wednesday) WABC sent someone to the transmitter to check on the problem. (In the old days, the transmitter was staffed 24/7, but it seems in these cost-cutting days, they only send someone down there to collect the mail!)
> 
> 
> I have not had WABC-DT (7.1. and 7.2) since Monday on my Hughes hr10-250 directivo receiver -- though when I do a signal strength test on channel 45, I get a solid 95 percent. Someone is wrong, very wrong. Hopefully, they can get to the bottom of it!



Most importantly, they BETTER get it fixed by 8:59pm tonight......


----------



## Scott G

Thanks for the information, gawarner. Hopefully, they will fix the problem soon. Please let us know if you hear any more information.


----------



## mikeny

It seems to be working again, as of post time.


By the way, I tried to get in touch with Pete but the operator said she needed a last name and wouldn't simply connect me to engineering. Thanks for the number though.


PS Why is NBC NY playing around with another subchannel?


----------



## Roger Lococco

jay,I believe tonight's Lost is a rerun,and no new episodes til Jan 11th,according to a post on the Fuselage.

7.1 seems to be back,but both it and 45.1 are extremely poor,very pixelated and frozen.

The new 4.4 seems to be of very poor quality as well.


----------



## NYHeel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berniec* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe that his meter gave him "the same" levels on the roof. At the very least there should have been a few db difference from cable loss going down to your TV. I'm not 100%, but i'm pretty sure diplexors have like .5db insertion loss to them.
> 
> 
> where in Bergen co. are you? I was living in Hasbrouck Heights, in an apartment on the ground floor, and had a small terk outdoor antenna that i mounted in one of my closets and had no problem getting all the NY locals on a first generation HD tuner.
> 
> 
> First what kind of antenna did the installer put in, since you say its mounted on teh side of your house by the dish i'm picturing one of those square plastic units. Go get a REAL antenna and put it on the roof if thats the case, most will agree those look nice but are crap.



I'm in Bergenfield. I don't know what type of antenna it is. It doesn't quite look like those huge roof mounted ones but it also seems bigger than "those square plastic units". Of course I'm not really sure what you mean by "those square plastic units". should I try to get an antennuator from radio shack and see if that helps? As you can tell I really don't know much about these antenna issues. It's been a really long time since I've ever even had one.


----------



## berniec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYHeel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Bergenfield. I don't know what type of antenna it is. It doesn't quite look like those huge roof mounted ones but it also seems bigger than "those square plastic units". Of course I'm not really sure what you mean by "those square plastic units". should I try to get an antennuator from radio shack and see if that helps? As you can tell I really don't know much about these antenna issues. It's been a really long time since I've ever even had one.



could you take an educated guess as to how big it is? and what it looks like?


if its not metal in construction and you cant see any antenna elements then chances are that its junk.


I dont think you need an attenuator- my signals levels were no where near the verge of overload in hasbrouck heights, and i was closer to empire then you are, it sounds like you need more signal not less.


for where you are you should be fine with an antenna like this http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...=&PROD=ANC3021 up on the roof, its also not too directional so aiming it should be easy, plug you'll be able to get stuff like NJN thats coming from the oposite direction as the NY signals as well.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> jay,I believe tonight's Lost is a rerun,and no new episodes til Jan 11th,according to a post on the Fuselage.
> 
> 7.1 seems to be back,but both it and 45.1 are extremely poor,very pixelated and frozen.
> 
> The new 4.4 seems to be of very poor quality as well.



Yeah, I remember reading that last week....but I just got my new 50" DLP delivered on Friday....and I was hoping to see how she looked with Lost being fed to her....


----------



## ma8466

I've noticed some various news and entertainment programming on WNBC-DT 4.4 as well. Kind of like WABC-DT 7.2. I have to agree with Gary, more subchannels means more compression on the bandwidth and less quality on 4.1 (the main HD channel).


The question begs: If there's a WNBC-DT 4.4, surely a 4.3 subchannel is in the works?



...Mel


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ma8466* /forum/post/0
> 
> I've noticed some various news and entertainment programming on WNBC-DT 4.4 as well. Kind of like WABC-DT 7.2. I have to agree with Gary, more subchannels means more compression on the bandwidth and less quality on 4.1 (the main HD channel).
> 
> 
> The question begs: If there's a WNBC-DT 4.4, surely a 4.3 subchannel is in the works?
> 
> 
> 
> ...Mel




I posted in early November I think where is was getting 4.3 and 4.4. One of the channels had Mr Rogers on. There was also a logo in the corner UNC or something

like that I guess meaning Universal NBC or whatever. It was just a load of crap, proabably the techophiles messing around seeing if they could do it.


----------



## SnellKrell

What we are now receiving on 4.4, was very much the same type of programming that was transmitted on 4.2 before NBC started its idiotic, almost unwatchable, highly bandwidth wasteful Weather + service.


Who knows what additional unjustified, unneeded channel those wonderful people from G.E. are going to foist upon us.


Before G.E. further compresses 4.1's HD signal, don't you think and hope that NBC should firgure out how WNBC-DT should "flip" switches correctly and provide proper audio levels before they venture into dividing up its digital pie even further?


It has to do with priorities and getting your act together.


"In the public's interest, convenience and necessity."


Too many at 30 Rock and Connecticut have forgotten why they have a license!


Gary


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Before G.E. further compresses 4.1's HD signal, don't you think and hope that NBC should firgure out how WNBC-DT should "flip" switches correctly?



Perhaps they need to pay out a 6 figure salary to a VP in charge of switch flipping?


----------



## Roger Lococco

NBC-DT's audio level sounds normal to me,but CBS-DT's audio is much,much louder than the other stations.


----------



## mrsat1

Hi all.....just an fyi...within the next 2 weeks, wabc 7 will be launching the accuweatrher channel probably on 7-2 or 7-3. I am an engineer for Abc Network and received the word from my good friend pete greco/transmitter engineer for wabc. He said he just received a dish to install and downlink a digital feed from accuweather. don't know what bird or transponder it comes from...will get more info on this this. found out also that the recent problems regarding no picture from either 7-1 or 7-2 is a antenna problem that wabc shares with wnyw (44-1). they seem to be interfering with 45-1 (mapped as 7-1 and 7-2).


on the signal strength.....i get around 95 (from bensonhurst, bklyn) but if you have like me an hr 10-250 direct tivo...if there is no pid info in between the two signal strength bars, you

will see no picture/audio.


later.........mrsat1


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrsat1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all.....just an fyi...within the next 2 weeks, wabc 7 will be launching the accuweatrher channel probably on 7-2 or 7-3. I am an engineer for Abc Network and received the word from my good friend pete greco/transmitter engineer for wabc. He said he just received a dish to install and downlink a digital feed from accuweather. don't know what bird or transponder it comes from...will get more info on this this. found out also that the recent problems regarding no picture from either 7-1 or 7-2 is a antenna problem that wabc shares with wnyw (44-1). they seem to be interfering with 45-1 (mapped as 7-1 and 7-2).
> 
> 
> on the signal strength.....i get around 95 (from bensonhurst, bklyn) but if you have like me an hr 10-250 direct tivo...if there is no pid info in between the two signal strength bars, you
> 
> will see no picture/audio.
> 
> 
> later.........mrsat1



I believe that you are incorrect concerning your statement that WABC shares an antenna with WNYW! At least not for digital broadcasting.


WABC-DT is part of the Combiner project using WCBS-DT's omnidirectional patterned antenna.


WNYW-DT alone used its directional patterned antenna on the Empire State Building. In fact, the Fox co-owned station, WWOR-DT doesn't even use WNYW-DT's antenna, it is also is on the Combiner.


Just because stations can technically split the bandwidth, doesn't necessarily make it right.


If stations insist upon using precious bytes for new purposes, why can't they find some useful program services?


Gary


----------



## mrsat1

Hi gary.....this is what I was told...it appears that Wnyw eirp is causing some kind of interference problem mainly because fox 5 is on uhf 44 and wabc is on uhf 45.


one fact which is true is that the accuweather channel is coming............

mrsat1.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrsat1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi gary.....this is what I was told...it appears that Wnyw eirp is causing some kind of interference problem mainly because fox 5 is on uhf 44 and wabc is on uhf 45.
> 
> 
> one fact which is true is that the accuweather channel is coming............
> 
> mrsat1.



There's a lot of misinformation out there!


WNYW-DT's antenna is at 1,204 feet .


The Combiner stations, including WABC-DT, is located at 1,302 feet.


It is strange to me that the FCC would have allocated adjacent UHF channels.


Although directional, WNYW-DT's power is the highest in the New York Metropolitan area and that could be one of the problems.


Gary


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is strange to me that the FCC would have allocated adjacent UHF channels.
> 
> Gary



And they did it in the relatively new "digital" realm where one might expect the use of caution until there is more experience. I have been curious how they came to this decision myself.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If stations insist upon using precious bytes for new purposes, why can't they find some useful program services?
> 
> 
> Gary



You don't think the 50th weather channel is useful?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And they did it in the relatively new "digital" realm where one might expect the use of caution until there is more experience. I have been curious how they came to this decision myself.



Up until last week I didn't hear any complaints about WNYW/WABC. I may be having a brain fart here but they've been on adjacent channels, 100 feet apart and at high power for a year now. Any new problems are not going to be because of antenna/station placement. There has to be a different reason. I noticed that since ABC returned after our complaints last week that my HDR230 no longer gets guide data, but NBC has started broadcasting since 4.4 went up. I'd have a much easier time believing that these issues are the cause of the problems than WNYW being on channel 44.


----------



## SnellKrell

Is it possible that with the Combiner and WNYW-DT's relatively new level of high power, both being less than a year in service, that we're experiencing the negative effects of weather on WABC-DT's signal?


We're all learning how frustrating the propagation of UHF/Digital is - add to that the mysteries of multipath!


Just a thought.


Gary


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Up until last week I didn't hear any complaints about WNYW/WABC. I may be having a brain fart here but they've been on adjacent channels, 100 feet apart and at high power for a year now. Any new problems are not going to be because of antenna/station placement. There has to be a different reason. I noticed that since ABC returned after our complaints last week that my HDR230 no longer gets guide data, but NBC has started broadcasting since 4.4 went up. I'd have a much easier time believing that these issues are the cause of the problems than WNYW being on channel 44.




First of all I did not say the problems were related to this. I have wondered about this placement since the channels were first assigned and I did not have the ability to see into the future back then. I have no idea what is going on the last few weeks. Having said this and having worked with RF for over 30 years I can say problems don't always show themselves right away. Adjacent channel transmitters 100 feet apart is no small thing. Adjustments drift, metallic objects nearby are moved, corrosion causes non-linear conductors, etc. I am Not saying the problem is the proximity but it is a possibility. It may at least contribute. To me, on the face of it, it seemed an odd choice.


----------



## dukealexan

I can't believe CBS does not broadcast the JETS in true HD all the time. Watching yesterdays game on the HD CBS HD channel was a joke. a 4:3 stand image pumped up to 1080i, it looked terrible. This is a disservice to all JETS fans and shows what CBS really thinks about the JETS and the fans. The 4:00 game was great, Cowboys and Chiefs in true HD, too bad the JETS did look that good. FOX shows all the GIANTS games in true HD as well as a ton of others.


----------



## lexluthor

As it's been posted many times before, CBS shows 3 games a week in HD.


If they Jets didn't suck so bad this year, I'm sure more of their games would be in HD. I'd assume that CBS tries to pick the best 3 games week week to show in HD and generally, the Jets aren't one of them.


----------



## bpade

The networks are usually biased in favor of teams that call themselves New York, even when they're really New Jersey teams. However, look at the Jets record. They're just playing for draft position now. I didn't watch any of the game, but I'll bet the stands were half empty.


----------



## CPanther95

CBS only picks the "top" 3 games each week to produce in HD. The (2-10) Jets didn't make the cut this week.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dukealexan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't believe CBS does not broadcast the JETS in true HD all the time.



CBS only does 3 HD games a week. It should be obvious why the Jets weren't in HD this week.


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpade* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The networks are usually biased in favor of teams that call themselves New York, even when they're really New Jersey teams.



If your from VA then mind your own business on this one. That stadium is exactly 8 miles from downtown Manhattan. Also, most of the people in the stands are from the NY area. The Jets train on Long Island and have their corporate offices in Manhattan. These teams are about as New York as one can get. Someone like you from out of town wouldn't have a clue about this. Just because the Dallas Cowboys play in Irving, Texas does not mean they are not Dallas's team. What a dumb response you gave.


----------



## bpade




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scott G* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If your from VA then mind your own business on this one. That stadium is exactly 8 miles from downtown Manhattan. Also, most of the people in the stands are from the NY area. The Jets train on Long Island and have their corporate offices in Manhattan. These teams are about as New York as one can get. Someone like you from out of town wouldn't have a clue about this. Just because the Dallas Cowboys play in Irving, Texas does not mean they are not Dallas's team. What a dumb response you gave.



Sheez! Switch to decaf! I'm a Pittsburgh native living in exile and Steelers fan who also makes fun of the Maryland Deadskins. Heinz Field, and Three Rivers before that are stadiums owned by and located in the city of Pittsburgh.


As soon as the Jest and Giants play in their corporate offices, I'll call them New York.


Lighten up, Scott.


----------



## Scott G

Talk about lightening up. Why don't you go back to your own group, and stay out of our NYC OTA group. No one needs you here. Most people here are very cordial and helpful to each other here. No one needs any Steeler fans commenting on our teams here. Go talk to the Pittsburgh people.


----------



## ANGEL 35

The Jets& Gaints will spend 1.5 bellion to rebuild in N.J Are they still a N.Y team???


----------



## LL3HD

New York team / New Jersey team, give me a break, like it really matters.

Call it whatever makes you happier.


It's all NYC money anyway. Jersey is just another borough, (the 6th for all of you out-of-towners). The state, specifically the northern part of NJ, wouldn't survive if it weren't for NYC. Bring back the commuter tax and lower my property taxes.


----------



## ANGEL 35

Yea. Lets get back to OTA NEW YORK.


----------



## bpade




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scott G* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Talk about lightening up. Why don't you go back to your own group, and stay out of our NYC OTA group. No one needs you here. Most people here are very cordial and helpful to each other here. No one needs any Steeler fans commenting on our teams here. Go talk to the Pittsburgh people.



When I replied, the thread was in the HDTV Programming area, not here. My reply was a bit tounge-in-cheek, but was not an attack. It was also valid. The Jets are a very bad team this year. The Networks would normally LOVE to showcase the big market, New Jersey/New York area even if they were just an average team.


Big market = big ratings = big bias toward New Jersey/New York.


It would be nice if all the games were in HD, and they probably will in a year or 2.


Merry Christmas!


----------



## chl109

i am new here, this whole DTV/HDTV is brand new to me. i live in bensonhurst and i purchased a Syntax 26inch LCD TV and a Digital Stream HD3150 OTA tuner/decoder and i've been able to get rock solid DTV/HDTV for a few days now. Initially i only had two channels when i set up everything, but after reading around i realized i had to aim my antenna. i point my antenna parallel to cropsey ave if you guys know the brooklyn area well and ive been able to get all the major networks at above 85% signal strength.


----------



## dan57

I was having trouble with NBC 4.1 and NET 13.1 last night. Just me, or anyone else? NBC is usually no problem for me. Maybe the weather.


----------



## POWERFUL

Anyone know the TV Guide on screen host channel is here? It should be an analog channel on the VHF band but I'm not sure which one?


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know the TV Guide on screen host channel is here? It should be an analog channel on the VHF band but I'm not sure which one?



Not sure what you are asking.


The cablevision digital/HDTV program guide is on 94.6 (mapped to 100 on the I.O. box)


The analog guide is on Cable channel 14.


Are one of these what you are looking for?


----------



## POWERFUL

No, OTA channel if you would help me out please?


----------



## netman

Ahh, I thought the TV was supposed to figure it out on its own. It seems like there are some threads in the "display/rear projection units" section of the forum. Maybe someone there can help you.


----------



## POWERFUL

No I mean the Guide data for some OTA HD DVRs? Anyone have that info?


----------



## netman

There is at least one thread talking about TV Guide On Screen in that section. Some TVs use the data too. It seems some of them are not working as well as they should. I don't have a DVR or TV that uses it. I found this web site http://www.vgi.com/support/2004/faq/listings.asp which does not answer your question. I am pretty sure we are talking about the same thing. Sorry if we are not.


----------



## POWERFUL

Thanks for your help netman, but finally I found out from searching though a hidden diag. message in my HD DVR that the TV Guide on Screen channel for NYC is Fox 5 analog. I hope when the analog channel gets turned off they will continue broadcasting that signal on the digital channel and that my HD DVR will receive it. Oh FYI I'm using the LG LST-3410A as my HD DVR. I read somewhere the guide is embedded in broadcast in the vertical lines or something like that. Thanks again and I hope this help others out.


----------



## Ruidh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know the TV Guide on screen host channel is here? It should be an analog channel on the VHF band but I'm not sure which one?



WNET Channel 13.


----------



## POWERFUL

If that is the case then why did my HD DVR report it as channel 5? If that is so then I hope they boost power to their digital signal. Maybe I have to post the hexdecimal code the HD DVR gave me to either confirm or reject that statement above.


----------



## andrewjnyc

I've been using cable to fill all my HD needs for awhile now, but after building a Windows MCE box so I can record three HD shows at once when the need arises (two on my SA 8300HD, one on the MCE box), I'm diving back into the realm OTA realm. I'd forgotten that WNYW is also on the ESB along with the combiner--for some reason, I'm having great difficulty tuning them in (ditto WNBC and WNET) though WCBS, WWOR, WPIX and WABC are coming in just fine. I'm using a Radio Shack antenna pointed northeast that's placed on the inside windowsill of my 2nd floor East Village apartment (a window that points onto an airshaft, as do all my northern windows). Any tips on how to orient the antenna so that I can get everything?


----------



## mrsat1

update on accuweather channel....(12-15-2005)

according to my good friend pete from wabc engineering who states the live channel will debut on either 7-2 or the new channel 7-3 during the 1st week of January, 06.

mrsat1..............


----------



## ma8466




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrsat1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> update on accuweather channel....(12-15-2005)
> 
> according to my good friend pete from wabc engineering who states the live channel will debut on either 7-2 or the new channel 7-3 during the 1st week of January, 06.
> 
> mrsat1..............



No surprise there...the Philadelphia ABC affiliate WPVI-DT has an AccuWeather channel on 6-3 (UHF 64-3), which can be pulled in on a very good tropo night from Bergen County, NJ...last time I pulled it in was in August during some fierce thunderstorms.


More compression from WABC-DT means 7-1's picture quality of the HD programming to degrade in the least bit slightly.











...Mel


----------



## SnellKrell

WPVI-DT in Philadelphia is more than an ABC affiliate, it's an owned and operated station and for years has been the highest rated station carrying ABC programming.


I would imagine that this new weather channel, just what we all need, will be implemented across the ABC stations. I just hope that it will be better than NBC's feeble attempt with its Weather +.


Hey broadcasters, bytes are a precious commodity, don't waste them on poorly executed, un-needed divisions of the bandwidth.


We want our HDTV!


Gary


----------



## mondesign

Has anybody else noticed a drop in signal strength on WNET-DT? I was getting a good solid signal until last night when it dropped out. Am not receiving it at all today also.


When I was receiving it, I was also having lockup and reboot problems on both my Samsung boxes. Rescanning cures the problem for about 15 minutes, until I guess they change something in their PSIP data and they lockup again.


Anybody having this problem with their Samsung boxes on WNET-DT? Decoding on Zenith HDV-420 is fine when I had signal.


----------



## gpcopy

for uhf 30 which was 31.1 31.2 31.3 and 31.4 now just displays 31 and for the channel it displays the letter i. I don't always get it though. Mostly at night. Channel 13.1 13.2 13.3 has really improved its actually watchable lately. CBS and FOX 5 are terrible comes in and out too much. The only station I rarely had problems with is WNBC. I live in Bergen county near Paramus.



GPCOPY


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mondesign* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anybody else noticed a drop in signal strength on WNET-DT? I was getting a good solid signal until last night when it dropped out. Am not receiving it at all today also.
> 
> 
> When I was receiving it, I was also having lockup and reboot problems on both my Samsung boxes. Rescanning cures the problem for about 15 minutes, until I guess they change something in their PSIP data and they lockup again.
> 
> 
> Anybody having this problem with their Samsung boxes on WNET-DT? Decoding on Zenith HDV-420 is fine when I had signal.



Was able to watch 13-1 last night (Coldplay was on) and signal seemed fine on my D* 360 tuner.


Speaking of PSIP data, I noticed that on my Zenith plasma OTA tuner, almost EVERY channel now comes up in the on-screen guide with actual show info and listings....whereas the last time I checked my parents Samsung T-151 OTA tuner most every channel had no real programming/channel info.


Did something change in the last XXX months or is the Samsung OTA tuner unable to decode the PSIP data that is coming down whereas the Zenith internal tuner CAN decode it ???


----------



## dturturro

I've also noticed a BIG improvement in WNET & WLIW over the last few months.


----------



## SRFast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've also noticed a BIG improvement in WNET & WLIW over the last few months.



Which direction is your antenna aimed? I live in NE Queens and I cannot get HD WNET or WLIW. I can get HD ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN, & WB, but I want the local PBS-HD channels. BTW, what is the channel # for WLIW-HD?


TIA...JL


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which direction is your antenna aimed? I live in NE Queens and I cannot get HD WNET or WLIW. I can get HD ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN, & WB, but I want the local PBS-HD channels. BTW, what is the channel # for WLIW-HD?
> 
> 
> TIA...JL




WLIW is Channel 22 and the antenna is oposite direction of Channel 13 at Empire State. Transmitter is by north service road of LIE at exit 48. Unless something changed in the last few days WLIW has NO HD jsut SD on 21.2 and 21.3


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was able to watch 13-1 last night (Coldplay was on) and signal seemed fine on my D* 360 tuner.
> 
> 
> Speaking of PSIP data, I noticed that on my Zenith plasma OTA tuner, almost EVERY channel now comes up in the on-screen guide with actual show info and listings....whereas the last time I checked my parents Samsung T-151 OTA tuner most every channel had no real programming/channel info.
> 
> 
> Did something change in the last XXX months or is the Samsung OTA tuner unable to decode the PSIP data that is coming down whereas the Zenith internal tuner CAN decode it ???




I had a Samsung SIRT150 until a few weeks ago until it sort of died and replaced it with a Samsung SIRT451. I too have noticed the listings but I'm not sure if it is the electronics or things changed.


----------



## Roger Lococco

I'm in Jamaica ,Queens and I can't receive WNET or WLIW either,although oddly enough I can get NJN perfectly fine with only 20-25 on the signal meter on my Accurian.I am also getting surprisingly great reception with the RS 2.99 bowtie,it's actually much better than the amplified 45db antennas I've tried.


----------



## Maggot

"...WLIW Ch22 its antenna is opposite direction of Channel 13 at Empire State...."


Wow. Can you tell us what seem to be the bearings of that WNET antenna?

Like most here, my main interest is that WNET HDTV signal... the one I hope is being honed for broadcasts in ATSC ! I'd be ashamed to admit to all the time and obsessing I've invested in getting best sig from PBS (mostly my compromise is C-band satellite ...from Nebraska, of course (Honest!) It'd encourage me to know if the antenna destined to radiate PBS in ATSC for NYC metro area is not just vaporware at present. It burns me to go NET's website and get bounced around with no plainspoke answers. Shame we faithful must contnuously sniff around for rumors, intermittent excited reports of sightings with inconstant geography. But it'll be a grand day to get a solid lock on NOVA 1080i here 40 miles due north of ESB. By then I'll be lucky if I am young enuf to hear see or care!


----------



## SnellKrell

WNET-DT transmits an omnidirectional signal from the Combiner atop of the Empire State Building.


Unfortuantely, the signal is at very low power and usies a high channel allocation - #61.


Hope this helps,


Gary


----------



## BCCISProf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which direction is your antenna aimed? I live in NE Queens and I cannot get HD WNET or WLIW. I can get HD ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN, & WB, but I want the local PBS-HD channels. BTW, what is the channel # for WLIW-HD?
> 
> 
> TIA...JL



I live in South Brooklyn (Flatbush) and have the exact same situation. I get 0 signal on 13.1 but get HD ABC, CBS, NBC, UPN, & WB with 80% or greater signal on WatchHDTV. I have a roof mounted antenna and use either the ATI HDTV Wonder or the USB Fusion system on my laptop.


I don't understand this because PBS is supposed to be part of the combiner just as the others are.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNET-DT transmits an omnidirectional signal from the Combiner atop of the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> Unfortuantely, the signal is at very low power and usies a high channel allocation - #61.



Others here, however who seem to be further away seem to be getting WNET/



Any ideas about what can be done?


----------



## SnellKrell

Although various stations transmit from the same antenna, the Combiner, each has its own amount of power, each has its own channel allocation. Those two factors are extremely important when it comes to the quality of reception.


Add to that, if your do not have line-of-sight to the transmitting antenna, you may very well be plagued with multipath reception. In addition, weather conditions, including the amount of moisture in the air, will affect reception.


There are so many varialbles - enough to drive you crazy!


Gary


----------



## SRFast

I have TWC and can get the PBS-HD national feed, but I would like the local programming as well. I have a roof mounted VHF/UHF antenna and as stated earlier, I can get the major network HD channels OTA, but not WNET. Do I need a signal amp?


Roger L. - I'm in NE Jamaica, so we're neighbors.


BTW, my nephew lives four blocks further east and can receive WNET-HD using a RS indoor HD antenna facing west - sitting in a closet! That is weird.


Regards....JL


----------



## mikeny

Does anyone else see frequent macroblocking in NJN's HD Channel 50.5? My signal strength meter seems steady at 80+ and the SNR is 26.


----------



## Maggot

I am poor (in resources) ...BUT IF I were rich ...Or even merely "Comfortable"... I would bequeathe a directed gift of generous cash to WNET-HD which stipulates it must use to augment a 1st rate HD signal. Directed North and Up so I can watch it from Paradise.


If you, Dear Reader, are "Comfortable" yet not so "Comfortable" as would tend to prevent or delay your rapid and regretfully untimely death... do the Right Thing, for once in your wicked life- huh?


----------



## ElVee

I hope this is the correct forum. It's a cable/OTA question, so I wasn't sure if I should post here or in the NY TWC forum.


My inlaws just dumped Dish Network in favor of Time Warner Cable in Queens. They have the HD package with the Pioneer HD receiver. I have yet to see the box, so I don't know which model it is.


I'm wondering, is this box capable of receiving and integrating OTA signals like my HD DirecTiVo (HR10-250)? I'd like to install a roof antenna for them and I want to make sure this will work.


They had Time Warner before switching to Dish, but then, they did not have HD. That was a few years ago. They had problems with the cable going out and they eventually got fed up. When they saw my DirecTv picture they were impressed and wanted to switch to satellite. However, they chose Dish instead of DirecTv.


Anyway, now they're back to cable. I just want to get an antenna installed, so in the event of a cable outage, they can at least view OTA channels.


Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## SRFast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElVee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm wondering, is this box capable of receiving and integrating OTA signals like my HD DirecTiVo (HR10-250)? I'd like to install a roof antenna for them and I want to make sure this will work.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.



What is the purpose of this? TWC-NYC carries all the local HD channels except WB, UPN and NJN. There is PBS-HD, but it is the national feed. If your in-laws don't have an onboard ATSC/HD tuner on their set, the are out of luck because the TWC STBs cannot be used for OTA programming.


I've had TWC since 1985 and have NEVER a complete cable TV outage, so your concerns are unwarranted. If you still want to install a roof antenna, 99% of the TVs on the market have multi antenna input capability (ANT1/ANT2).


Hope this helps...JL


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is the purpose of this? TWC-NYC carries all the local HD channels except WB, UPN and NJN. There is PBS-HD, but it is the national feed. If your in-laws don't have an onboard ATSC/HD tuner on their set, the are out of luck because the TWC STBs cannot be used for OTA programming.
> 
> 
> I've had TWC since 1985 and have NEVER a complete cable TV outage, so your concerns are unwarranted. If you still want to install a roof antenna, 99% of the TVs on the market have multi antenna input capability (ANT1/ANT2).
> 
> 
> Hope this helps...JL



The WB will be an issue come baseball season (Mets fans).


I don't know where you are in the TWC NYC market, but in the Rockaways in Queens, they had plenty of outages a few years back. Again, that's the reason that they ditched cable in the first place.


Unfortunately, they do not have a tuner. They have the Panasonic TH-42PHD7UY.


Thanks.


----------



## mondesign

Anyone using the Accurian receiver and having problems with WNBC-DT? I picked up one of these a few days ago and it seems to work fine, except for the channel remapping on WNBC-DT. When you do a channel scan, it does not seem to find 4.1, 4.2, etc. If you punch in CH 28 on the remote it will receive 4.1, but the readout will show 28.1 and I dont get the other subchannels. All the other NYC DTV stations are remapping properly, so I dont know if it is something with WNBC's PSIP data, or a bug in the Accurian firmware.


Does anyone else notice this with the Accurian, or is it only my box?


----------



## Roger Lococco

I believe you are right about the Accurian,I just did a scan,it didn't find 4.1.4.4,etc.it scanned in 28.1,28.2, and 28.3 last week,but not during this most recent scan,maybe the PSIP is all messed up.I've notice reception on WNBC-DT is more difficult now than it was only a few weeks ago.


----------



## DReborn

hi there, i live in manhattan (8th and broadway) and was wondering which OTA HD channels were available? I have TWC but i want to setup my htpc to record HD as well (hd tuner, attenna, etc).


can i even get reception with an indoor antenna in an apartment?


Lastly, sorry if this is a super newb question but, i obviously can't just use a splitter with the coax cable coming from twc and put that directly into my htpc tuner right? Just making sure...


----------



## jcondon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have TWC and can get the PBS-HD national feed, but I would like the local programming as well. I have a roof mounted VHF/UHF antenna and as




13-1 is the National PBS HD feed.

13-2 is PBS Kids

13-3 not sure but, not the same as Wnet 13 analog


So what you have on TWC is probably the same as you would get if could get WNET-DT OTA.


At least this was the way it was a couple weeks ago last I looked at WNET-DT OTA.


----------



## nicefriend1dxp

Hello,


I got a new Sony KDS-R60XBR1 today. It's a real beauty.


I'm having some problems receiving HDTV OTA. I'm in 07090, Westfield NJ (Union Co.). 19.0 miles from Empire State, according to AntennaWeb.


More details:

1. I started out trying a Zenith Silver Sensor. Not much luck - I get reception, then it gets pixelated, the signal cuts out and TV says "no signal." Then the signal comes back but the problem will repeat again, over and over. Turned and repositioned the antenna without luck. What's going on? Is the Silver Sensor just no good?


2. Then I tried my 30-year-old rooftop antenna. Previously I had thought it was a VHF only model, but I seem to be getting UHF channels. 2.1 was coming in great at 5 p.m., but at 11 p.m. I was getting "No Signal." 5.1 came in OK both times, but no luck with 4.1, 7.1 or 11.1 - No signal on all of those. Any ideas as to what's going on?


Thanks so much!

David


----------



## k2koq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NBC-DT's audio level sounds normal to me,but CBS-DT's audio is much,much louder than the other stations.



So the very LOUD CBS-HD audio IS caused by the broadcaster and NOT the cable company. What makes it ever worse is that the commercials are even LOUDER (G)


I find myself actually skipping channel 2 when surfing just so I don't have to get blasted with sound.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2koq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So the very LOUD CBS-HD audio IS caused by the broadcaster and NOT the cable company. What makes it ever worse is that the commercials are even LOUDER (G)
> 
> 
> I find myself actually skipping channel 2 when surfing just so I don't have to get blasted with sound.



Well at least they show not the slightest motivation to change it! I wonder if they actually LIKE that their audio is 10DB louder than everyone elses? It really IS annoying.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nicefriend1dxp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I got a new Sony KDS-R60XBR1 today. It's a real beauty.
> 
> 
> I'm having some problems receiving HDTV OTA. I'm in 07090, Westfield NJ (Union Co.). 19.0 miles from Empire State, according to AntennaWeb.
> 
> 
> More details:
> 
> 1. I started out trying a Zenith Silver Sensor. Not much luck - I get reception, then it gets pixelated, the signal cuts out and TV says "no signal." Then the signal comes back but the problem will repeat again, over and over. Turned and repositioned the antenna without luck. What's going on? Is the Silver Sensor just no good?
> 
> 
> 2. Then I tried my 30-year-old rooftop antenna. Previously I had thought it was a VHF only model, but I seem to be getting UHF channels. 2.1 was coming in great at 5 p.m., but at 11 p.m. I was getting "No Signal." 5.1 came in OK both times, but no luck with 4.1, 7.1 or 11.1 - No signal on all of those. Any ideas as to what's going on?
> 
> 
> Thanks so much!
> 
> David



The SS is the best indoor antenna you can get but it doesn't match what an outdoor antenna can do. Your rooftop antenna may still be good, but I'll bet it's not aimed properly and the connectors may be no good. You may want to have a pro come in and clean up the wiring for you if you're not comfortable on the roof.


----------



## dave10023nyc

WNET does not have a local HD feed. NJN also carries the national feed but only from 8:00pm to Midnight

http://www.thirteen.org/watchHD/ 





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is the purpose of this? TWC-NYC carries all the local HD channels except WB, UPN and NJN. There is PBS-HD, but it is the national feed. If your in-laws don't have an onboard ATSC/HD tuner on their set, the are out of luck because the TWC STBs cannot be used for OTA programming.
> 
> 
> I've had TWC since 1985 and have NEVER a complete cable TV outage, so your concerns are unwarranted. If you still want to install a roof antenna, 99% of the TVs on the market have multi antenna input capability (ANT1/ANT2).
> 
> 
> Hope this helps...JL


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else "Getting" WNYE-DT (pbs 25???) over the last few days? I happened to check a few days ago....and I had no signal. Then this AM at about 6am I happened to flip by again....and I had a lockable signal (Yoga program). Did they "up" their power....or are/were they in testing mode??


I'm in Central NJ and I picked it up on my CM4228 roof mounted antenna with a CM pre-amp (it's been so darn long....7775??) via my D* Hughes e86 STB.


----------



## Roger Lococco

I ran a scan on my Accurian tonight,got 24-1,which is apparently WNYE 25(never was able to receive it before)so it's quite possible they upped their power.


----------



## ckran

Like everyone else I'm frustrated that I can't watch thirteen's programming on DTV, let alone in HD. I live just a few miles West of Newark, and while my analog reception is lousy, digital reception is generally good. Just not the same shows.


So I was cautiosly optimistic when looking at the channel listings at titantv which shows WNETDT3 channel 13.3 as rebroadcasting the analog lineup. But alas, when I went to my TV I found it was still showing "World."


Is there anything new on Thirteen's web site about OTA broadcasts? No of course, not on their digital page they list all the cable channels. But click on "learn more" and there is a link to an "HDTV Survey."


Fill out the survey, tell them you want OTA digital broadcasts of the same shows they broadcast in analog.


(I tried to include the actual links but it seems I'm not senior enough for that.)


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ckran* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Like everyone else I'm frustrated that I can't watch thirteen's programming on DTV



Not EVERYONE else. I could not care about this. PBS-HD has anything I want to see and shows them more often than 13 does. The SD content does not matter to me; analog is fine for that stuff. I honestly don't see what I am missing.


----------



## cpto

The the last couple of days I haven't been able to get audio on either 4-1 or 4-2. I've tried deleting and re-adding the station but still no luck.


I have an older (5+ years) Zenith but since the other NY HD stations are still coming in I wonder if it's a problem with NBC.


Any suggesions or comments?


Thanks.


C


----------



## cpto

Hmmm - maybe a PSIP problem? I noticed tonight that I'm now getting 4-4 in addition to 4-1 and 4-2 (but none of them with sound). 4-4 is a stretched, very low rez picture. I have no idea what it's supposed to be.


Does NBC ever look at this thread?


Thanks.


----------



## mondesign

There does seem to be something different about WNBC-DT PSIP data. As I mentioned in a previous post, Ch 28 is not remapping to 4.1, 4.2, etc. on my Accurian box. All other DTV stations ( with the exception of CH53 which is all screwed up) remap properly. I can see 4.1 if enter Ch 28 manually on the remote which comes up as 28.1, but it wont find it if I rescan.


They seem to have been playing with their PSIP with the addition of 4.4 recently, so maybe they messed up something else in the process and dont realize it?


It would be nice if the local broadcasters did take a look at this thread once in a while and see how their signals are actually being received in the field! Just take WCBS-DT's 10 dB too high audio level as an example!


----------



## cpto

Well, the Channel 4 website doesn't list any technical staff in their email list, so I sent information about my problem to their investigative unit, with a reference to this URL. I don't know if this will help, but if nothing else the unit should be able to contact NBC tech staff.


T


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mondesign* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice if the local broadcasters did take a look at this thread once in a while and see how their signals are actually being received in the field! Just take WCBS-DT's 10 dB too high audio level as an example!



CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now.

I do give them credit however, for the best picture during HD football games. I don't know if its just me but their picture seems noticabley better than ABC or Fox. Keep up the good work guys!


----------



## Richard Smith

Since 4:00PM on 12/24/05 I cannot receive FOX (chan #5). All the NFL games now appear on ESPN but my STB reports no signal on channel 5.


I am picking up all the other local channels as always!


----------



## mondesign




Phil Hightech said:


> CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]
> 
> 
> It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, *they must like it that way*.
> 
> 
> I went as far as contacting the Dolby Rep from the NYC area to try and get all the area broadcasters to standardize their audio levels. ( Dolby makes the digital audio encoders used at all the stations) He was well aware of the situation and was going to arrange a meeting to discuss the problem with the local station engineers. That was almost a year ago, and there has been absolutely no change!
> 
> 
> Part of the problem lies in the way that the DTV audio levels are set. According to the Dolby AC-3 standard which is incorporated into the ATSC system, audio level is actually encoded into the program data stream by the program producer. That means that basically the producer of a program or commercial can make his dialog audio level as loud as he wants, with the broadcaster having only limited ability to adjust the level.
> 
> 
> So, it may not actually be up to the local station to determine how loud his audio sounds to the DTV viewer. I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.


----------



## netman




mondesign said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Hightech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]
> 
> 
> It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, *they must like it that way*.
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us assume the stations do nothing but take the network digital stream and pump it out over the air. In this case CBS New York still needs to match its local program audio to the insane high level. A search of other local broadcast threads would show if others have noted the high level.
Click to expand...


----------



## Phil Hightech




mondesign said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Hightech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CBS has always been too loud, you think they would have adjusted it by now. ]
> 
> 
> It seems impossible that CBS is not aware of their high audio level. As someone posted here a few days ago, *they must like it that way*.
> 
> 
> I went as far as contacting the Dolby Rep from the NYC area to try and get all the area broadcasters to standardize their audio levels. ( Dolby makes the digital audio encoders used at all the stations) He was well aware of the situation and was going to arrange a meeting to discuss the problem with the local station engineers. That was almost a year ago, and there has been absolutely no change!
> 
> 
> Part of the problem lies in the way that the DTV audio levels are set. According to the Dolby AC-3 standard which is incorporated into the ATSC system, audio level is actually encoded into the program data stream by the program producer. That means that basically the producer of a program or commercial can make his dialog audio level as loud as he wants, with the broadcaster having only limited ability to adjust the level.
> 
> 
> So, it may not actually be up to the local station to determine how loud his audio sounds to the DTV viewer. I am curious whether the high CBS audio level is actually being set by the network feed, and if the local station has no choice but to broadcast it as received.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be surprised if adjusting/limiting/compressing the audio level before broadcast is that difficult. I use a program called AC3filter to adjust the audio stream levels (on the fly) in my HTPC before sending to the receiver. Since ATSC broadcasting is so new, I think they just haven't reached the chapter in the owner's manual on Setting the Audio Level
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the other broadcasters seem to have it right. Perhaps they just want to be the loudest signal out there. Remember WCBS FM with all that echo and compression. Maybe they transferred the engineer from CBS FM (when they switched to the JACK format) to WCBS-DT! LOL
> 
> But seriously, I am going to complain to them as well.
> 
> -Phil
Click to expand...


----------



## CynKennard

Phil Hightech,


If you or anyone else contacts WCBS-DT about their high audio level, please also discuss their incorrect handling of their 5.1-channel audio. Like WABC-DT, which has been doing the same thing for a long time, they insert the two channels of their local stereo signal into only the left and right front channels of the 5.1-channel signal leaving the other four channels empty. This gives a hollow sounding signal that is not comfortable to listen to and prevents receivers from switching to Dolby Prologic to derive a center and surround channel. They should either convert the stereo signal to a proper 5.1-channel signal and insert it into all 6 channels or switch to 2-channel Dolby Digital audio. WNBC-DT handles this correctly (except that they use 3-channels which also works fine).


WCBS-DTs local signal is more like 12 to 13 db louder than other channels. The CBS network signal is approximately 7 db louder than other channels. I think the stations won't really care until a majority of viewers are watching their digital channels.


Cynthia


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CynKennard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> please also discuss their incorrect handling of their 5.1-channel audio. ....only the left and right front channels of the 5.1-channel signal leaving the other four channels empty.
> 
> 
> Cynthia



I can't count how many times I have run up to my center channel thinking it was broken!


So who we gonna call?


----------



## cpto

Problems with CBS-DT were reported long before I started this thread, although most of them were about the irritating difference between the HD volume compared to locally inserted SD-upconverted ads.


Since WCBS' technical people read (or at least used to read) the thread--and were very responsive in dealing with problems--I can only assume that the volume difference is due to a management directive. Perhaps when local commercials suddenly blare from their sets, the suits hear only the ka-ching of revenue, and not the clacks and curses as local listners fumble for their remotes and cuss at the blaring sound...


C


----------



## dm145

ABC-DT's volume is too low and stuck in 5.1 mode 24x7!

That is just as bad as CBS being too high.


----------



## k2koq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpto* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Since WCBS' technical people read (or at least used to read) the thread--and were very responsive in dealing with problems--I can only assume that the volume difference is due to a management directive. Perhaps when local commercials suddenly blare from their sets, the suits hear only the ka-ching of revenue, and not the clacks and curses as local listners fumble for their remotes and cuss at the blaring sound...
> 
> 
> C



I used to have CBS- HD as the default start up channel... it was so *LOUD* I changed to NBC HD...now I surf up through the HD channels and usually find something good to watch before getting back to CBS....if this behavior catches on it can't be good for the CBS ratings.


----------



## tungaw

has anybody in northern new jersey (close to paramus, bergenfield area) had any experience with using winegard gs1100 to ge OTA hd signal?


I need help in aiming my winegard gs1100 installed. how to you point the antenna to the tower? should the "bat wing" be aligned in the direction of the station or should it face the station perpendicularly.... thanks much.


tungaw


----------



## Roger Lococco

haven't be able to receive WNBC-DT for days now.The plus side to that is I haven't seen that craptastic weather channel or 4.4 either,lol.


----------



## SnellKrell

Don't forget those wonderful and highly rated shows on 4.1.


Your loss is your gain!


Gary


----------



## boschg

I just got a RCA HDTV tuner on loan, and the only local channels I haven't been able to receive are WNBC-DT (28) and WNYE-DT (24), even though I'm only 5.2 resp. 1.1 miles from the transmission towers. All other channels come in at strengths between 80 and 95, which should be sufficient. At first I thought this might have to do with my antenna setup, even though analog channel 25 comes in fine. WNBC-DT shows me program information, but no picture: the tuner reports weak signal.


Seems unbelievable a major network like NBC wouldn't be able to stay on air... I guess, that is welcome to DTV broadcasts










-Geert


----------



## cpto

Not surprising - the WNBC consumer help people ignored the email I sent them asking for help with their own station.


Meanwhile, it's been over a week since my set's tuner has received audio on NBC-DT. The problem seems to have started about the time they added 4-4.


I guess if I can't contact them I'll file a complaint with the FCC - not that I suspect it will help either. Still, I'd think that a station broadcasting over public airways with a signal that is not (I suspect) totally standards-compliant must be doing less than serving the public.










Thanks.


Rick


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> haven't be able to receive WNBC-DT for days now.The plus side to that is I haven't seen that craptastic weather channel or 4.4 either,lol.



Are you having the reception problem with the Radio Shack Accurian? I still cant find WNBC-DT on the Accurian when I scan, although it is channel mapping to 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4 on the Samsung and Zenith receivers I have.


----------



## Roger Lococco

yes,I'm using the Accurian,on my most recent scan a few minutes ago,28.1,etc,and 4.1,etc don't show up,but I can watch them because they were stored in the memory on previous scans.Reception on WNBC-DT resumed for me early on Thursday.


----------



## MLM

Does anyone know the origin of the programming on 13.1 and 51.5? Is one of them the PBS HD feed (if not always in HD)? Where does the other one originate? Does anyone know why the programming on 51.5 is repeated for 7 days?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MLM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know the origin of the programming on 13.1 and 51.5? Is one of them the PBS HD feed (if not always in HD)? Where does the other one originate? Does anyone know why the programming on 51.5 is repeated for 7 days?



IIRC, 13-1 is the PBS HD national feed...and 51-5/43-5/8-5 are the local NJN HD feed (with a seemingly less significant set of shows).


Anyone else "lose" 13-1:3 digital over the weekend? Everytime I checked over the weekend I had NO SIGNAL on the subchannels. Weird. ??


----------



## cgott42

Anyone in the Rockland County area (Spring Valley zip 10977, or Chestnut Ridge 10952)?

How good is your reception OTA HD by channel?


----------



## tstatguy112




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cgott42* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone in the Rockland County area (Spring Valley zip 10977, or Chestnut Ridge 10952)?
> 
> How good is your reception OTA HD by channel?



Nanuet 10954

I get: 2-1 * 4-1 * 4-2 * 4-3 * 5-1*5-2(WOR-SD)*

7-1* 7-2* 9-1 *9-2(FOX-SD)* 11-1 * 11-2 *13-1 * 13-2 *13-3 *

21-2* 21-3* 31-1 *41-1* 50-1* 50-2* 50-3* 50-4* 50-5 *53-1 *

I also use a rotor with my antenna.

Sometimes the station number change back to their Digital station numbers, like right now 5-1 and 5-2 are 44-1 and 44-2.

The 50 stations do not come in all the time and lately my box freezes when it goes to 31-1 so i have to hunt with my antenna and press channel buttons until I get free again, it's a real pain in the ass sometimes.

All New York stations come in great. 11 and 13 pixelate sometimes but if i rotate the antenna it corrects it. Sometimes weather interferes but very rarely.

Use good cable and connectors and you should get great reception


----------



## andrewjnyc

I've been experiencing some major headaches tuning in channels with my Radio Shack 15-1880 (connected to a home-built Windows MCE 2005 box I'm using as the receiver). The antenna is on the windowsill of my 2nd floor apartment in the East Village, which faces NE onto an airshaft. I point the antenna NW toward the ESB to draw in stations, and I can usually get WCBS, WNBC, WABC, WWOR and WPIX...but the thing is, I can never get them all at the same time. If I move the antenna around into a position where it picks up WNBC, I lose WPIX and WWOR. One day, WPIX may be coming in fine, but the next, I have to move the antenna around again (either scooting it side to side or rotating it) to bring the station back in. I'd love to be able to find a spot where I can get everything and leave the antenna alone and have it *just work*.


Two questions:

1) Could height be a bigger help, reception-wise, than proximity to the window? The windowsill is about 4' off the ground, but I could easily put the antenna on top of a 7' cabinet that is next to the window, though the antenna would no longer be right by it.


2) The antenna's gain is turned up to the max, because it's been difficult to get WNBC otherwise. I've heard that sometimes a lower gain can be better because there can sometimes be conflicts between high gain and a strong signal. Would lower gain + a better position help where WNBC is concerned?


This is a real pain because I want to be able to record programs on different channels while I'm out, but now have to choose between one or the other (ie between Smallville and The Office tonight) because of not being able to recieve everything at the same time.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrewjnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is a real pain because I want to be able to record programs on different channels while I'm out, but now have to choose between one or the other (ie between Smallville and The Office tonight) because of not being able to recieve everything at the same time.



There is no way to predict any of this. Indoor antennas are often a problem. Close in reception can also be. I would recommend trying everything even what seems to no make sense. Try the higher spot, try the air shaft keep trying. You may NOT find a happy medium but you may.


----------



## Alexvd

Hey I live right off Route 22e on the border of WestField NJ & Mountainside NJ. This is about 20 miles to the ESB. I have lots of trees and homes next to me and I Newark Airport is in between.


I have a Channel Master 4228 mounted on 10ft mast with a Titan Pre-amp. OTA is pulled in by my aging Zenith DTV 1080.


My issue is that every once in a while I lose my signal. It does drop completely but it becomes so low it no longers pulls in the station. It basically drops to the level that the preamp boosts the signal. Then one day it will mysteriously return to full signal. The dropout usually occurs on a weekend or holiday weekend. Then it returns on Monday.


I have checked the pre-amp and it seems to be still running. I have even uplugged and plugged it in. The pre-amp is plugged into a UPS.


So anyone in Westfield having similar issues? Why is this happening.


----------



## Roger Lococco

here's my experience with various indoor antennas:

most amplified antennas,10-45db(Recoton,RCA,Magnavox) were pretty mediocre at best,and could receive at most 3-4 stations.Also tried the much praised Radio Shack 15 1880,was only able to tune in 7.1,7.2,and 2.1.Bought the R S 15-1892,but it was DOA,didn't function at all,and was missing the remote.Needless to say,that POS is going back to the store muy pronto.The Radio Shack 3.99 bowtie works amazingly well,I have it clipped to one of the rods on the Recoton,with careful and patient adjusting,I can receive with 70+ signal strength:

2.1 CBS

4.1,.2,.4 NBC

5.1 FOX,5.2UPN

7.1,7.2 ABC

9.1UPN,9.2 FOX

11.1.11.2 WPIX(with very careful adjusting)

19.1,19.2.19.3(nothing there,but the Accurian scanned and stored theose stations)

24.1WNYE(some sort of sync problem,the speed of the video or film varies sometimes,somewhat like a silent movie)

28.1,.2,.3NBC

33.1,33.2WPIX

40.1 Univision

56.1 CBS

58.1.58.3,58.4,58.5NJN


----------



## Dave Kristol

I recently bought an HDTV, and I'm looking for some help. I'm in Summit, NJ, about 15 mi. due west of NYC.


My setup:


- Spectre x37SV 37"

- attic-mounted antenna

- Radio Shack signal amplifier

- Comcast analog cable (Comcast NJ)


I'm feeding the ATSC input of the x37 with the output of the signal amplifier. I'm feeding the NTSC input of the x37 from the analog cable. I fussed with the antenna orientation until I picked up stations of interest.


I am able to pick up the local HD stations I'm most interested in with the exceptiion of Ch.4 (4-1). I am able to tune manually to frequency assignment 28, but I can't make Ch.4 "stick". When I try to add 28 to my channel lineup, the x37 says "Scanning...", then "Can't find channel 28" (or something similar). So I can watch WNBC-DT, but it's a nuisance to tune to it this way. (I realize others have reported similar issues here.)


Some questions/problems:


1) Any ideas how to resolve my WNBC-DT problem?


2) Should I be able to pick up the unencrypted HD signals from Comcast? In their channel lineup, the HD stations appear around Ch.230. The x37 only claims to be able to tune channels 1-135.


3) The x37 seems unwilling to pick up (analog) Ch.77, TCM, although I can view Ch.77 by way of a tuner in my VCR or DVR. I actually contacted Sceptre about this, and they claim the signal on the cable is too weak. Their answer seemed entirely bogus. However, I also had trouble with Ch.49 (Comedy Central) last night, but it had returned this morning. Does this sound like a signal strength problem? (I've bought a CATV signal booster, and I'll try it out to see whether it makes a difference.)


Thanks for any help.

Dave Kristol


----------



## cpto

Whatever the channel 4 tech staff did, audio is back on all three of the NBC digital feeds on my set. Just a quick thanks to them all for their help!












C


----------



## hdtvforme

Is there a problem with FOX from the ESB?


I'm not getting any signal at all today.


----------



## dturturro

I've been watching the game, so no, there's no problem with the signal.


----------



## macdonaldorama

I'm a newbie and need a bit of advice.


I live near Brooklyn Heights on the fifth floor of a large apartment building. My indoor Terk directional pulls down NBC, ABC and FOX perfectly with a little adjusting. However channel 56 - WCBS won't come in at all. I simply get white snow, regardless of where I place the antenna.


Anybody know of a reason why I'd get all the other ESB channels fine and have trouble with CBS?


----------



## SnellKrell

Although all of the stations you mention emanate from the ESB, and in fact, all but Fox use the same transmitting antenna, unless you have line-of-sight from your antenna to the ESB, you are receiving multipath reception - signals bouncing off of various structures before they reach your antenna.


That's just for openers.


Each station has its own power and of course, its own frequency. Add to all of that the multipath situation, mix in weather conditions, including humidity, and you have entered into the Twilight Zone of digital UHF reception. It will drive you crazy!


You may want to experiment with a Silver Sensor or a Radio Shack antenna. I use the Silver Sensor and, at least for me, it's surpassingly good.


I wish you luck.


Gary


----------



## cpto

Dave - NBC DT was having a little trouble with their PSIP and changed it a cay or so ago. Have you tried to re-scan recently?


Please post your results here. Thanks.


Cpto




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I recently bought an HDTV, and I'm looking for some help. I'm in Summit, NJ, about 15 mi. due west of NYC.
> 
> 
> My setup:
> 
> 
> - Spectre x37SV 37"
> 
> - attic-mounted antenna
> 
> - Radio Shack signal amplifier
> 
> - Comcast analog cable (Comcast NJ)
> 
> 
> I'm feeding the ATSC input of the x37 with the output of the signal amplifier. I'm feeding the NTSC input of the x37 from the analog cable. I fussed with the antenna orientation until I picked up stations of interest.
> 
> 
> I am able to pick up the local HD stations I'm most interested in with the exceptiion of Ch.4 (4-1). I am able to tune manually to frequency assignment 28, but I can't make Ch.4 "stick". When I try to add 28 to my channel lineup, the x37 says "Scanning...", then "Can't find channel 28" (or something similar). So I can watch WNBC-DT, but it's a nuisance to tune to it this way. (I realize others have reported similar issues here.)
> 
> 
> Some questions/problems:
> 
> 
> 1) Any ideas how to resolve my WNBC-DT problem?
> 
> 
> 2) Should I be able to pick up the unencrypted HD signals from Comcast? In their channel lineup, the HD stations appear around Ch.230. The x37 only claims to be able to tune channels 1-135.
> 
> 
> 3) The x37 seems unwilling to pick up (analog) Ch.77, TCM, although I can view Ch.77 by way of a tuner in my VCR or DVR. I actually contacted Sceptre about this, and they claim the signal on the cable is too weak. Their answer seemed entirely bogus. However, I also had trouble with Ch.49 (Comedy Central) last night, but it had returned this morning. Does this sound like a signal strength problem? (I've bought a CATV signal booster, and I'll try it out to see whether it makes a difference.)
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> Dave Kristol


----------



## MLM

Did anyone else experience breakup on the WABC-DT broadcast of the ice skating last night? High winds at the ESB the cause?


Mel


----------



## dturturro

No, but I had to delete Mad TV due to ridiculous breakups.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, but I had to delete Mad TV due to ridiculous breakups.



yeah, they break me up too.


----------



## POWERFUL

There's an inch or two of snow on everything, this and the high winds are the cause of the breakups.


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MLM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did anyone else experience breakup on the WABC-DT broadcast of the ice skating last night? High winds at the ESB the cause?
> 
> 
> Mel



watched the whole thing,no breakups.


----------



## shlin

I am having big time problem this weekend on WCBS.


----------



## Dave Kristol

Yes, I saw the post about WNBC-DT on Friday, and, indeed, I can pick it up just fine now (along with 4-2 and 4-4).


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am having big time problem this weekend on WCBS.



And *I* am having severe problems with WNET-DT (channel 13) breaking up.


Dave Kristol


----------



## dturturro

Did tonight's ep of 24 have an unusually high amount of artifacting (macro blocking, screen door effect, whatever) or was it just me?


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did tonight's ep of 24 have an unusually high amount of artifacting (macro blocking, screen door effect, whatever) or was it just me?




It's you...


----------



## mondesign




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And *I* am having severe problems with WNET-DT (channel 13) breaking up.
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol




WNET-DT did seem to have a drop in power over the weekend, but it appears to have returned to normal today.


----------



## speedlaw

I keep seeing reception questions. I'm confused. Maybe everyone is spoiled by the magic of cell phones.


The "secret" of HDTV reception is



as much metal

as high as possible

OUTSIDE


Now, if you live in an apartment, you have my sympathy, as I've suffered "no antennas" too. If you have access,


Why is $150 in antenna, brackets and coax cable an issue if you are hooking it to a set which cost a minimum of $1000 ?


Indoor antennas are a waste of time for most of us. Install an exterior antenna and you'll have perfect 1080i or 720p. Even a small outdoor antenna will outperform the most "super duper" indoor wires.


Two brackets, two or three sections of 5 foot mast, and an antenna under $100, along with some premade coax and attachments.


Just like in 1955, except for coax instead of twinlead.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why is $150 in antenna, brackets and coax cable an issue if you are hooking it to a set which cost a minimum of $1,000?



Finally, a voice of reason! Oh, don't forget the "wife won't let me put up an antenna" excuse! It must be a real drag to be on that short leash


----------



## Roger Lococco

does anyone here use a smallish outdoor antenna like the RS U75R indoors?I don't mean in the attic,I mean in the same room where the tv is located.How good(or bad)is the reception?


----------



## michaelk

usually people get teh silver senser for such applications


----------



## Dave Kristol

I wasn't able to get channel 2 (WCBS) all day Sunday, though it appears to be back this morning. Was it just me, or did others have similar experience?


Dave Kristol


----------



## SnellKrell

Watched football on WCBS-DT using my indoor antenna - nothing out of the ordinary about the reception yesterday.


Gary


----------



## unScarred

Hello, everyone... I've been enjoying OTA HD in Bloomfield, NJ for a couple years now, used AVSForum to research my Sony GWII but never had a reason to find this thread before now...


So I'll start with a question about a really odd problem (at least I think it's odd)... any idea why 5.1 (Fox WNYW-HD) disappeared on me, but after a channel scan I find that I'm getting Fox HD on 44.3? I know that WNYW is really on 44 (even though I've been tuning to 5.1 in the past), but I have no signal on 44.1 or 44.2.


I have a lot of metal very high up in the air  (Weingard on a 10 foot pole on top of a 2 story house), signal strength has been an intermittent issue, but in this case when I tune to 5.1 and check signal strength it's nonexistent.


Feel free to ask me leading questions that might imply that I have no idea what the heck I'm doing... you probably wouldn't be wrong...


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *unScarred* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello, everyone... I've been enjoying OTA HD in Bloomfield, NJ for a couple years now, used AVSForum to research my Sony GWII but never had a reason to find this thread before now...
> 
> 
> So I'll start with a question about a really odd problem (at least I think it's odd)... any idea why 5.1 (Fox WNYW-HD) disappeared on me, but after a channel scan I find that I'm getting Fox HD on 44.3? I know that WNYW is really on 44 (even though I've been tuning to 5.1 in the past), but I have no signal on 44.1 or 44.2.
> 
> 
> I have a lot of metal very high up in the air  (Weingard on a 10 foot pole on top of a 2 story house), signal strength has been an intermittent issue, but in this case when I tune to 5.1 and check signal strength it's nonexistent.
> 
> 
> Feel free to ask me leading questions that might imply that I have no idea what the heck I'm doing... you probably wouldn't be wrong...




There really is only 1 "channel". That would be 44. All the rest are data constructs. If you look through the thread you will get the idea that stations get pretty lax with setting up their data stream sometimes. In the data stream is the info that tells your TV to call a certain "program" 5.1 or 5.2 . It is possible FOX is messing with the data stream and it is now not in complete compliance with the structure your TV expects.


----------



## hojo

I recently set up my HDTV with a CM 4228 on a 5ft mast on top of my roof and pointed it in the direction that a website had advised me to and did not receive any channels.I'm located in Forest Hills Queens in a 2 story house and surrounded by very tall buildings and felt that they were blocking the signal.So

I experimented a bit by turning the antenna until I received something.Lo and

behold it was pointed 180 degrees away from where it should be pointed at.

The signal was somewhat unstable and I could not get all of the locals I wanted

so I attached the CM 7777 preamp and was very suprised that it didn't change the signal strength whatsoever.Thinking that it was defective I hooked up another CM 7777 and it resulted again in no change .I strongly suspect I'm trying to lock in onto

multipath signals and maybe the preamp can't amplfy those signals.Can anyone

enlighten me on whats hapenning and what I can do about it?


----------



## festerjets33

Hi. I've been having no luck tuning in ABC, CBS or NBC since 5 PM Sunday.


I have the Fusion 3 Gold HDTV in my PC using the Silver Sensor as my antenna indoors.


I've been able to pull in all the digital channels (in Bushwick, Brooklyn 11237) since February 2005 just fine.


However, as stated above I can not get ABC, CBS, or NBC anymore.


Any ideas how I can go from getting the channels perfectly for nearly a year to now nothing?


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hojo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I recently set up my HDTV with a CM 4228 on a 5ft mast on top of my roof and pointed it in the direction that a website had advised me to and did not receive any channels.I'm located in Forest Hills Queens in a 2 story house and surrounded by very tall buildings and felt that they were blocking the signal.So
> 
> I experimented a bit by turning the antenna until I received something.Lo and
> 
> behold it was pointed 180 degrees away from where it should be pointed at.
> 
> The signal was somewhat unstable and I could not get all of the locals I wanted
> 
> so I attached the CM 7777 preamp and was very suprised that it didn't change the signal strength whatsoever.Thinking that it was defective I hooked up another CM 7777 and it resulted again in no change .I strongly suspect I'm trying to lock in onto
> 
> multipath signals and maybe the preamp can't amplfy those signals.Can anyone
> 
> enlighten me on whats hapenning and what I can do about it?




Most signal indicators on most of our receivers would be better thought of as "Signal Quality" indicators and for the most part making a signal full of reflections (multipath) louder wont make the quality any better.


As I have said more times than I want to count; installing an antenna as directional as a 4228 without a rotor is a mistake. Most people do not have the ability to aim such a thing "by hand".


You might want to view an analog station from the same source and move the antenna around and look for ghost-free reception. Worry less about snow for the time being and do this without the preamps. Don't even think about using both preamps which wont work anyway because you wont be able to power the preamp closest to the antenna. If you get ghost free try it on the digitals next.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *festerjets33* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi. I've been having no luck tuning in ABC, CBS or NBC since 5 PM Sunday.
> 
> 
> I have the Fusion 3 Gold HDTV in my PC using the Silver Sensor as my antenna indoors.
> 
> 
> I've been able to pull in all the digital channels (in Bushwick, Brooklyn 11237) since February 2005 just fine.
> 
> 
> However, as stated above I can not get ABC, CBS, or NBC anymore.
> 
> 
> Any ideas how I can go from getting the channels perfectly for nearly a year to now nothing?



Sure; your neighbor moved their fridge. Get an outside antenna.


----------



## hojo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Most signal indicators on most of our receivers would be better thought of as "Signal Quality" indicators and for the most part making a signal full of reflections (multipath) louder wont make the quality any better.
> 
> 
> As I have said more times than I want to count; installing an antenna as directional as a 4228 without a rotor is a mistake. Most people do not have the ability to aim such a thing "by hand".
> 
> 
> You might want to view an analog station from the same source and move the antenna around and look for ghost-free reception. Worry less about snow for the time being and do this without the preamps. Don't even think about using both preamps which wont work anyway because you wont be able to power the preamp closest to the antenna. If you get ghost free try it on the digitals next.



Thank you very much for your input I appreciate it very much.My next move would be to purchase a rotor just as you suggested. Again thanks a lot!


----------



## Roger Lococco

tried out a Terk hdtva tonight,worthless piece of junk.


----------



## POWERFUL

Anybody could a told you that. Terk products are the worst thing to come from Commack since Rosie O'donnell.


----------



## Roger Lococco

some forum members do report good results with the hdtva(none from the NY area,though.)I have no idea why,but where I'm at a simple cheap bowtie works much better than any amplified antenna I've tried.


----------



## Roger Lococco

for the past 2 days,after around 1 am,all local ota hd channels seem to be off air,except WNYE and NJN.Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## dturturro

I'd heard that NBC was going to be doing some maintenance around that time. They may have affected the other stations on the combiner. Fox has it's own antenna so they should not have been affected.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> some forum members do report good results with the hdtva(none from the NY area,though.)I have no idea why,but where I'm at a simple cheap bowtie works much better than any amplified antenna I've tried.




If that's the antenna that looks like the Silver Sensor I tried it an NOTHING. So odd, since they both look about the same


----------



## Dm84

In August I bought a 26" Insignia HDTV with an integrated ATSC tuner from Best Buy. I had it hooked up to an HD cable box from Time Warner Cable, so I never tested out its tuner capabilities. Anyway last night cable went down and my mother wanted to watch Grey's Anatomy, so my brother rigged up a very crude antenna consisting of rabbit ears hooked up to a piece of coaxial cable plugged directly into the tuner. He tuned to 7-1 and like magic the signal appeared with amazing picture quality (70% signal). This is in a basement with a metal roof, on the side of a hill, where plain old NTSC reception is impossible using rabbit ears. I'm impressed by how well I can recieve DTV.


Unfortunately I can't tune into 5-1 or 13-1 (the signal reads 20% for those channels), but I get most of the other channels with 70% signal. Also I noticed there is 4-4, does anyone know what this sub-channel is supposed to be? All I saw was random news bites. Also will the PQ get better if I can boost the signal strength to 85% or greater? Sorry if this has been answered before, but OTA reception is very new to me.


----------



## SnellKrell

First, I'm amazed, and so should you be, that rabbit ears, a basement , a metal roof and a hill will get you much of anything. Be happy that mother's show was on a channel you could receive with the hookup!


WNET-DT is the lowest powered station in the metropolitan area - while WNYW-DT is the highest. Digital UHF reception is very problematic - it can drive you crazy.


4-4 is WNBC-DT's latest foray into multicasting. The station used the same old news programming in setting up 4-2 which is now Weather +. Who knows what they will eventually put on 4-4 - all I know it's robbing precious bandwidth from 4-1, the HD signal.


With digital - either you get it or you don't - it is called the "cliff effect." As long as your signal is not breaking up, the PQ will not get better with a stronger signal.


Get yourself a Silver Sensor or a Radio Shack antenna as a standby for the next time Time Warner dies on you.


Hope this helps.


Gary


----------



## Dm84

Thanks for the advice. How much should a Silver Sensor cost? I saw one on ebay for about $30.


----------



## SnellKrell

Go to solidsignal.com or ********************* for lower prices.


Gary


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dm84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice. How much should a Silver Sensor cost? I saw one on ebay for about $30.



I believe I saw them on Overstock.com a few days ago as well. You can always tool around for some coupons for Overstock as well.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 4-4 is WNBC-DT's latest foray into multicasting. The station used the same old news programming in setting up 4-2 which is now Weather +. Who knows what they will eventually put on 4-4 - all I know it's robbing precious bandwidth from 4-1, the HD signal.



I was going to ask about that. I just got my OTA reception back, my Silver Sensor stopped working for me and I replaced it with the Radio Shack Indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna with RF Remote Control.

When I tuned WNBC-DT in I noticed the 4.4 added to sub channels list.

We can only hope the subs are tuned off for the Olympics.


I think WNBC-DT and WPIX-DT might be tied for the worst PQ on HD programming.

What does WPIX broadcast on it's sub? I notcied a 11-2 on the sub list.


----------



## SnellKrell

11-2 is used for the Spanish language audio tracks - when available.


At least this serves a purpose to the community, unlike 4-4 and the unwatchable 4-2!


Gary


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 11-2 is used for the Spanish language audio tracks - when available.
> 
> 
> At least this serves a purpose to the community, unlike 4-4 and the unwatchable 4-2!
> 
> 
> Gary



And it does not take up extra bandwidth beyond the second audio track.


----------



## POWERFUL

Anyone want to confirm this^? It will become important if 11 is the channel that stays in this market due to the UPN affiliate multicasting with FOX.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone want to confirm this^? It will become important if 11 is the channel that stays in this market due to the UPN affiliate multicasting with FOX.



Huh?


Channel 11 isn't going anywhere!


The station's owner, the Tribune Company, has signed a long-term affilitation agreement with CW to be the new network's affiliate in New York.


Next, Channel 9 owned by Fox, as is Channel 5, will probably continue its idiotic digital cross-carriage - that is, 5.2 = 9, and 9.2 = 5. This has absolutely nothing to do with Channel 9 losing its UPN affiliation.


Gary


----------



## CountryJoe

Hey, POWERFUL. Have you moved from Commack yet? If so, how is your reception now?


----------



## POWERFUL

Thanks Gary, but I guess then ch 11 isn't multicasting after all, but couldn't someone just press the SAP button on their TV or STB for alt. audio? Joe, yeah I moved to Flushing and the reception is great with just the RS 15-1880 for all the locals except WNET which I can't get in digital but get pretty clear in analog, which is also good because that is who is broadcasting TV Guide Data for my HDDVR, and the data is only sent in the analog channel, at this time. I consider myself lucky to get what I get considering that I'm renting a room in a basement with my antenna pointed at the closest window I have towards the ESB. Furthermore the cable is flaky in my apartment and really hasn't worked since I moved in here although I've tried but it seems as if I talking to a brick wall with Time Warner Cable. I really just want to use the Cablecard feature that I have in my set, but that is a discussion for the TWC thread.


----------



## kaiming

Is WNET broadcasting a signal I can get with the Dish 6000 reciever? I'm pointed line of sight at the ESB (11216)


It shows on the channel scan, but never locks in after that. (no pic, 0% signal)


----------



## andrewjnyc

Is getting consistent indoor reception in Manhattan completely impossible? I'm sure starting to think so. Because of TWC's asinine refusal to carrt WPIX and WWOR, I spent more than $500 building an HTPC for the express purpose timeshifting the HD broadcasts of GILMORE GIRLS, VERONICA MARS and SMALLVILLE. I live less than 30 blocks from the ESB, but can't get a decent signal on either station without at least 10 minutes of antenna-fiddling---and even when I lock it in, the signal will ususally have drifted away by the time I get home ten or twelve hours later--I only have a 50% success rate at recording my shows. I've tried both the Silver Sensor and the Radio SDhack 15-880 without success. It really frustrates me that people in Connecticut and New Jersey can tune these stations in without difficulty and yet the HD feeds of these networks can't be relied on in Manhattan, the freaking center of the media universe! If there's any place on the face of the freaking planet where I should be able to get the WB and UPN in high def, it's here. This is just absolutely insane.


----------



## kaiming

andrew: it's multipath that's your problem... I'd think about getting a outdoor yagi or a 4 bowtie and aiming it at a building that has line of sight, (in your apt)


----------



## kaiming

Is WNET broadcasting a signal I can get with the Dish 6000 reciever? I'm pointed line of sight at the ESB (11216)


It shows on the channel scan, but never locks in after that. (no pic, 0% signal)


----------



## JamieSS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digital UHF reception is very problematic - it can drive you crazy.
> 
> 
> Gary



If UHF is such a problem how is Qualcomm going to deliver DTV to cell phones which have very small antennas and move around or even could be in a vehicle? They are using former TV channel 55 and broadcasting DTV to cell phones. Same with Crown Castle, they are using spectrum in the 2.5 MHz area above UHF to broadcast mobile DTV to cell phones and other small devices.


It can't be UHF at fault.


----------



## JamieSS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrewjnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is getting consistent indoor reception in Manhattan completely impossible? I'm sure starting to think so. Because of TWC's asinine refusal to carrt WPIX and WWOR, I spent more than $500 building an HTPC for the express purpose timeshifting the HD broadcasts of GILMORE GIRLS, VERONICA MARS and SMALLVILLE. I live less than 30 blocks from the ESB, but can't get a decent signal on either station without at least 10 minutes of antenna-fiddling---and even when I lock it in, the signal will ususally have drifted away by the time I get home ten or twelve hours later--I only have a 50% success rate at recording my shows. I've tried both the Silver Sensor and the Radio SDhack 15-880 without success. It really frustrates me that people in Connecticut and New Jersey can tune these stations in without difficulty and yet the HD feeds of these networks can't be relied on in Manhattan, the freaking center of the media universe! If there's any place on the face of the freaking planet where I should be able to get the WB and UPN in high def, it's here. This is just absolutely insane.



It is insane. But you might try a BBTI PCI or USB OTA receiver or the same two from DVICO Fusion5gold plus. They are the best US receivers on the market and should do better than what you have in New York. Though neither of these "best" receivers would be tolerated in most third world countries.


But it is insane that you have this problem six years after we were promised that it would be fixed. Most other countries do not have a problem with mulitpath.


The problem has been totally solved many years ago. It is inexscusable that it still exist in the city of New York.


----------



## Solfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrewjnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is getting consistent indoor reception in Manhattan completely impossible? I'm sure starting to think so. Because of TWC's asinine refusal to carrt WPIX and WWOR, I spent more than $500 building an HTPC for the express purpose timeshifting the HD broadcasts of GILMORE GIRLS, VERONICA MARS and SMALLVILLE. I live less than 30 blocks from the ESB, but can't get a decent signal on either station without at least 10 minutes of antenna-fiddling---and even when I lock it in, the signal will ususally have drifted away by the time I get home ten or twelve hours later--I only have a 50% success rate at recording my shows. I've tried both the Silver Sensor and the Radio SDhack 15-880 without success. It really frustrates me that people in Connecticut and New Jersey can tune these stations in without difficulty and yet the HD feeds of these networks can't be relied on in Manhattan, the freaking center of the media universe! If there's any place on the face of the freaking planet where I should be able to get the WB and UPN in high def, it's here. This is just absolutely insane.



Our OTA system was certainly [and intentionally] never designed to easily accommodate the large city canyons, sorry you're having problems. The foreign system [COFDM] might handle your situation better, but it's proving to be worthless for long-distance true HDTV and they still have very serious interference issues.



You might try a Channel-Master 4221/3021 [~$22] in a window. I'd even try hanging it by its coax outside the building. Leave the wire-screen side toward the brick wall, obviously.


----------



## icemannyr

I am guessing it was done for the Superbowl but it's still the same now,

WABC-DT's sub is at 1.8 MBPS, it was at 3.2 MPBS.

The HD channel is 16.25 MPBS, it was 14.5 MPBS ,


Well it's over now, the sub is back to 3.2 MPBS.


----------



## Phil Hightech

I just noticed a new sub id on WNET. There is no new stream associated with it however. Something is probably in the works. The id's are: WNET-TV, WNET-SD, WNET-13 and WNET-HD


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am guessing it was done for the Superbowl but it's still the same now,
> 
> WABC-DT's sub is at 1.8 MBPS, it was at 3.2 MPBS.
> 
> The HD channel is 16.25 MPBS, it was 14.5 MPBS ,
> 
> 
> Well it's over now, the sub is back to 3.2 MPBS.



Can we swap it back?


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Hightech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just noticed a new sub id on WNET. There is no new stream associated with it however. Something is probably in the works. The id's are: WNET-TV, WNET-SD, WNET-13 and WNET-HD



Hmmm. I rescanned Ch. 13 (freq. 61) and still get just three. It sure would be convenient if WNET's HD broadcasts matched their newspaper- or program guide-printed schedule.


Dave Kristol


----------



## netman

Before you two go off the deep end please remember this is the "Local HDTV Info and Reception New York, NY - OTA" thread. Why the US fell into one system or another is a question for historians; better pondered while watching beta-max tapes. TV reception in dense cities has always been problematic and now with digital even more so. In the past stations ran low power simulcasts (on UHF!) to help city dwellers get better reception (as well as other reasons). A higher location will, likely, help (freedom tower?!).


----------



## Solfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JamieSS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is foreign about it? The US modulation is 8-VSB and that is foreign. Most of the IP royalties for 8-VSB go to South Korea. Most of the royalties for COFDM go to US entities. The basis for COFDM was invented at Bell Labs. 8-VSB is the foreign one.
> 
> 
> Why was 8-VSB "[intentionally]" designed not to work in big city canyons? Was it also intentionally made to have problems around airports? Airports are everywhere.
> 
> 
> And COFDM is being used in the US by XMRadio, Sirius, Qualcomm, Crown Castle and anyone using WiFi, WiMax and a lot of other stuff including HD Electronic News Gathering by Helicopter. It is used in wireless studio camera's for HD. Both Qualcomm and Crown Castle plan national rollouts of COFDM services this year in the US which involves great distances. They didn't even consider 8-VSB.
> 
> 
> How is it "proving to be worthless for long-distance true HDTV"? Australia is using it for 'True HDTV" and they have long distances. Japan is using it for "real" HD. Also could you give an example of a "serious interference issues"? I know of none.



You might think about going back onto the alt.tv.tech.hdtv newsgroup and continue your pet anti-8VSB jihad there, Bob.


After all, It's been going so well for you there since you took a much-welcomed vacation from here five years ago. Am I wrong?


----------



## JamieSS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Before you two go off the deep end please remember this is the "Local HDTV Info and Reception New York, NY - OTA" thread. Why the US fell into one system or another is a question for historians; better pondered while watching beta-max tapes. TV reception in dense cities has always been problematic and now with digital even more so. In the past stations ran low power simulcasts (on UHF!) to help city dwellers get better reception (as well as other reasons). A higher location will, likely, help (freedom tower?!).



TV reception in dense cities was always problematic in analog. In digital it is no longer problematic at all. The issue is solved, it is past tense. A non issue.


Unless of course for some reason you don't want good reception in problematic environments.


XMRadio and Sirius specifically use COFDM in cities to augment their satellite coverage. They do so because COFDM has not only no problem in big cities it thrives in big cities. Here is what a 100 Watt transmitter can do in New York for instance.

www.viacel.com/bob.wmv 


And this with simple 3 inch and 12v inch $2 omni antennas.


Digital has solved multipath both static and dynamic. One of the receivers in this video cost $65 4 years ago and can do HD just as easily.


----------



## netman

Great demonstration! What does it prove?! We have the system we have. Sadly the entire broadcast industry and the FCC did not consult with you on this issue before selecting a broadcast system.


----------



## JamieSS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great demonstration! What does it prove?! We have the system we have. Sadly the entire broadcast industry and the FCC did not consult with you on this issue before selecting a broadcast system.



Only that digital TV modulation does not inherently have a problem with multipath, one particular digital modulation has a problem and it happens to be the one used in the US.


It is the system we have but we also have MPEG2 compression and no other delivery system, cable satellite or the telco's FIOS are restricted as to modulation or codec used. They can change at will.


Over the air free broadcasting is the only TV delivery system hogtied with outdated technology. Seems like maybe these other delivery systems would like to see OTA restricted technically as much as possible or maybe see it just go away.


The reason why may be found in foreign OTA systems where veiwers are being offered free DTV that competes effectively with cable and satellite and is growing very fast.


Japan OTA free HDTV receivers sold in last 25 months, 8.7 million


France OTA free SD receivers sold in first 10 months, 1.73 million


UK OTA free SD receivers sold in first 3 years 10 million.


France will start HD OTA this year also.


----------



## DeltaTL6

Why am I only getting Mono sound from WNBC-DT. I am in brooklyn. I get other channels in either stereo or surround. But for NBC, i get Mono only, the picture is fine, still get olympics on HD. Side note: I have a pio 5060.


----------



## Dave Kristol

I've been receiving Ch. 13 (WNET-HD) OTA okay for awhile now, but I noticed it was dead last night and this morning. I know my antenna aiming is critical, but it's indoors in the east end of my NJ attic (and unaffected by the blizzard . Can someone confirm whether this is my problem or the station's? Thanks.


Dave Kristol


----------



## CountryJoe

I just checked and it is coming in but breaking up a bit


----------



## dturturro

No problems in Farmingdale, NY.


----------



## Solfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrewjnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is getting consistent indoor reception in Manhattan completely impossible? I'm sure starting to think so. Because of TWC's asinine refusal to carrt WPIX and WWOR, I spent more than $500 building an HTPC for the express purpose timeshifting the HD broadcasts of GILMORE GIRLS, VERONICA MARS and SMALLVILLE. I live less than 30 blocks from the ESB, but can't get a decent signal on either station without at least 10 minutes of antenna-fiddling---and even when I lock it in, the signal will ususally have drifted away by the time I get home ten or twelve hours later--I only have a 50% success rate at recording my shows. I've tried both the Silver Sensor and the Radio SDhack 15-880 without success. It really frustrates me that people in Connecticut and New Jersey can tune these stations in without difficulty and yet the HD feeds of these networks can't be relied on in Manhattan, the freaking center of the media universe! If there's any place on the face of the freaking planet where I should be able to get the WB and UPN in high def, it's here. This is just absolutely insane.



Andrew,

Have you tried one of the newer 5th generation STBs? Some guy named Mark Schubin was able to get fantastic reception in his uptown apartment.


This was posted August 1, 2004:


"Broadcast Television Finally Works Over The Air"



"With a simple loop antenna, with NO care in the positioning, we were able to pull in seven DTT stations reliably. When I say "reliably," I mean not only that the pictures and sound were okay but that people could move around the room and I could move the antenna around without causing any breakup.


It WAS possible for me to find an orientation where I could make it fail, but I really had to try, even on WNYW-DT, which could previously be received only with the antenna on the floor.


Congratulations to LG/Zenith! Let the transition move forward!


For the record, the channels I received were: WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WNYW-DT (which carries WWOR as a subchannel), WABC-DT, WPXN-DT, WNJN-DT, and WFME-DT.

TTFN, Mark"


Full article at:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?M5AC122AC


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JamieSS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The US modulation is 8-VSB and that is foreign.



This is incorrect.


8VSB was developed solely by Zenith Electronic Corporation, in Glenview, Illinois, prior to their acquisition by Korean electronics giant LG in 1995.




> Quote:
> Also could you give an example of a "serious interference issues"? I know of none.



Try researching COFDM digital TV reception in the countries you mention, you'll find reports of reception problems. No digital OTA system is perfect; they all have pros and cons. Anyone who tells you different has an ax to grind.


----------



## jmee

Hello -


Does anyone know the bitrates WNET is using for its 3 channels in NYC?


A recent broadcast of 'Nature' on Cuban wildlife on the "HD" channel was almost unwatchable due to the compression artifacts.


I haven't checked lately - I've been watching the Olympic artifacts this week....


----------



## Solfan

Hi Jmee,


Welcome to the forum!

You seem to be pretty knowledgable about how this all works, too bad you haven't been here longer!










Can you tell us more about your set-up?


----------



## Solfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No digital OTA system is perfect; they all have pros and cons. Anyone who tells you different has an ax to grind.



That is so true. Anyone can browse these overseas sites and get a more balanced view of the worldwide situation.



Great Britain:

*"Set-top box aerials suck":*
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/settop.html 

*"generally, the more metal you have in the sky the better"*
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aeri...ugly.html#roof 

*Digital Spy Forums*
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...splay.php?f=64 



Australia:

*Antennas:*
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showforum=12 

*Transmission and reception:*
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showforum=10 

*"HD Lite, enough is enough"*
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=29827 


German forums contain exactly the same comments and complaints as above, almost word-for-word.


I'd like to cross-post this over to HDTV Hardware, but I'll probably get yelled at.


----------



## Roger Lococco

tried out the Radio Shack 15-2186 tonight,it's a smallish panel type amplified antenna.A member in Chicago said it worked really well for him,he could receive stations 28 miles away.Didn't work at all for me,all I got was a pixelated still frame from WNBC.


----------



## shlin

WNBC is the weakest in this area (except WNET).


----------



## festerjets33




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> tried out the Radio Shack 15-2186 tonight,it's a smallish panel type amplified antenna.A member in Chicago said it worked really well for him,he could receive stations 28 miles away.Didn't work at all for me,all I got was a pixelated still frame from WNBC.



Try the RadioShack 15-892.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search 


Works great for me. I'm able to pull in all the digital channels in NYC (BTW, I'm in Brooklyn,NY on the line between Bushwick, Bklyn and Ridgewood, Queens).


You can also look here:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/index.html


----------



## Roger Lococco

lol,well I did buy it,unfortunately it was DOA,and was missing the remote.A second one,from another store had a damaged,used looking box,so I said I didn't want it and walked out.It might work well because I believe it has a log periodic element inside,like the Silver Sensor.


----------



## Solfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> tried out the Radio Shack 15-2186 tonight,it's a smallish panel type amplified antenna.A member in Chicago said it worked really well for him,he could receive stations 28 miles away.Didn't work at all for me,all I got was a pixelated still frame from WNBC.



Try a Channel Master CM4221A [3021], it's designed for rooftop use but with some creativity it can be used indoors.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=ANC3021 


I've seen pricing down to ~$20 on other sites.


----------



## Roger Lococco

I'd like to try out that CM 3021,but the shipping's 17 bucks,ouch.it's too bad no brick and mortar retailers sell it in NYC(that I'm aware of).


----------



## UroDoc

You can pick up the CM4221A at LNL Distributing in Syosset, LI NY. It's not NYC but a short drive from Jamaica, Queens.

https://www.lnl.com/cgi-bin/tame.cgi/lnl/shop.tam


----------



## Roger Lococco

thanks for the info Mike,LI is still a bit out of the way for me,though.I exchanged the 2186 for the 1892,could only receive CBS,NBC,and ABC.I actually get much better reception with the 3.99 bowtie,I can only speculate that I'm in some unusual mutipath area,and the bowtie is picking up the reflected signals.


----------



## dclarke

Since The Wtc No Longer Sends Nyc Signals I Am Curious Where The Local Channels Signals Orginate? I Am 55 Miles Northwest Of Nyc And Am Not Sure If I Can Receive Enough Ota Stations To Justify The Antenna Install? i am new to OTA HDTV signal reception but have had DSS for years. thanks


.


----------



## wbrack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dclarke* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since The Wtc No Longer Sends Nyc Signals I Am Curious Where The Local Channels Signals Orginate? I Am 55 Miles Northwest Of Nyc And Am Not Sure If I Can Receive Enough Ota Stations To Justify The Antenna Install? i am new to OTA HDTV signal reception but have had DSS for years. thanks
> 
> 
> .



All the network stations have gone back to the Empire State Building. If you have

a clear shot in that direction, you should have no problem receiving OTA from

55 miles away with a good antenna and a preamp. I am 45 miles east of the ESB

and I receive all the network stations without problems, only WNET is not good

most of the time (low power transmitter).


wb


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dclarke* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since The Wtc No Longer Sends Nyc Signals I Am Curious Where The Local Channels Signals Orginate? I Am 55 Miles Northwest Of Nyc And Am Not Sure If I Can Receive Enough Ota Stations To Justify The Antenna Install? i am new to OTA HDTV signal reception but have had DSS for years. thanks.



I am also about 40 miles from the transmission site, and I can receive the major stations without a problem. In addition, if you view a lot of sports, the improvement in picture quality is well worth the effort.


----------



## Dm84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wbrack* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All the network stations have gone back to the Empire State Building. If you have
> 
> a clear shot in that direction, you should have no problem receiving OTA from
> 
> 55 miles away with a good antenna and a preamp. I am 45 miles east of the ESB
> 
> and I receive all the network stations without problems, only WNET is not good
> 
> most of the time (low power transmitter).
> 
> 
> wb



Actually WABC-DT broadcasts from 4 Times Square. WABC-TV broadcasts from the ESB.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dm84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually WABC-DT broadcasts from 4 Times Square. WABC-TV broadcasts from the ESB.



ABC moved to the combiner a while back. The FCC site does not reflect that change though.


----------



## Dm84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ABC moved to the combiner a while back. The FCC site does not reflect that change though.



I don't think the engineers at WABC would intentionally give out false info.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dm84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think the engineers at WABC would intentionally give out false info.



Very cryptic; what are you trying to say?


----------



## Dm84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very cryptic; what are you trying to say?



That an engineer at WABC is my source. I was escorting a tour group through the station and someone asked an engineer where the DT transmitter was and the engineer responded that it was at 4 Times Square.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dm84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That an engineer at WABC is my source. I was escorting a tour group through the station and someone asked an engineer where the DT transmitter was and the engineer responded that it was at 4 Times Square.



It may not have been intentional on the engineer's part but it was incorrect. He is months out of step.


----------



## dclarke

i understand the mileage of 55 from nyc is not crazy but i am also seperated by some medium sized mountains that lie between nyc and hudson valley


----------



## VideoJames

Anyone know what happened with WABC-DT's broadcast of Desperate Housewives tonight? It was supposed to be in HD, but it seems like they sent out the SD version. The show is kind of lame to begin with, but since it looks cool in HD, I keep watching it. Read some quick posts on an ABC fan website, and it seems people in other parts of the country (CA, TX were the two I read) definitely got the show in HD.


----------



## wbrack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dclarke* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i understand the mileage of 55 from nyc is not crazy but i am also seperated by some medium sized mountains that lie between nyc and hudson valley



Those mountains would be a much bigger detriment to successful reception than

the distance. Keep looking around on this forum to see if anybody in your

general vicinity has successfully received OTA. Also , check
http://www.2150.com/ you may be able to receive stations from different

directions that are not obstructed by mountains.


wb


----------



## lastplace

have a question for the OTA HDTV NY area.


I have a brother who lives on the 30th floor near 58th and 9th and points Southeast. On antennaweb it appears he's about 1.5 miles from the tower. Any chance a cheapie $3 Radio Shack UHF bowtie would work for him?


----------



## SnellKrell

You never know until you try it!


Although Southeast is the correct direction for most of the stations, the Empire State Building, untless he has line-of-site to the tower, he will probably be dealing with multipath reception.


So, if a $3 "cheapie" isn't doing the job, by all means, have him try the Silver Sensor - it does very well for me in Manhattan - and it's highly dirctional which helps with multipath.


Gary


----------



## POWERFUL

Where can you find a Silver Sensor in Manhattan?


----------



## lastplace

Here it is

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...T=&PROD=ZHDTV1 



Thanks for the input Gary


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else notice that they are receiving programming on 7-3? Almost looks like the NBC Weather subchannel on 4-2.


Also---does anyone else have an RCA DTC-210 D* unit? The last 2 weeks I've locked on THREE DIFFERENT TIMES when I (or the kids/wife) inadvertently entered in 5-2 (WOR-DT horrific subchannel). It's supremely tedious to reboot from this muck up.


Anyone else ?


----------



## POWERFUL

Lastplace, that is not a local shop, I asked if there was a local shop or not. From the lack of info I'm guessing not. Anyone care to prove me wrong?


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lastplace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> have a question for the OTA HDTV NY area.
> 
> 
> I have a brother who lives on the 30th floor near 58th and 9th and points Southeast. On antennaweb it appears he's about 1.5 miles from the tower. Any chance a cheapie $3 Radio Shack UHF bowtie would work for him?




You might also want to get an attenuator to put in line if reception is not good at first (try 6DB or 10DB).


----------



## jaypb

Anyone watching The Ghost Whisperer last night on 2-1? I TIVO'D it and had numerous glitches during my 1 hour recording.....at least 5 different spots where the replay skipped or jumped ahead for 2 minutes or so at a time. The glitch was preceded by pixelation and some visual noise then the video would just "jump" ahead for 2-3 minutes at a time. I also recorded 24 at the same time and had NO issues....so I don't *think* it was my OTA antenna setup....but I don't know if it could've been the wind last night.


Weirdest signal/video breakup I've yet to see on an OTA recording.


Anyone ?!??!


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that they are receiving programming on 7-3? Almost looks like the NBC Weather subchannel on 4-2.
> 
> 
> Also---does anyone else have an RCA DTC-210 D* unit? The last 2 weeks I've locked on THREE DIFFERENT TIMES when I (or the kids/wife) inadvertently entered in 5-2 (WOR-DT horrific subchannel). It's supremely tedious to reboot from this muck up.
> 
> 
> Anyone else ?



I'm having the same problem with channel 5-2 but I have a HUMAX HFA 100


----------



## lastplace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You might also want to get an attenuator to put in line if reception is not good at first (try 6DB or 10DB).



What does an attenuator do?


Which one on these would work?

http://www.e-meca.com/rf-attenuator.htm


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lastplace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> have a question for the OTA HDTV NY area.
> 
> 
> I have a brother who lives on the 30th floor near 58th and 9th and points Southeast. On antennaweb it appears he's about 1.5 miles from the tower. Any chance a cheapie $3 Radio Shack UHF bowtie would work for him?



I'm about 10 miles away in Jamaica Queens,and the bowtie works great for me,although some stations require a bit of adjusting.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm having the same problem with channel 5-2 but I have a HUMAX HFA 100



Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I *tried* to go into my RCA's menu last night to "delete" the 5-2 subchannel....only (*$&(* problem is that when I "CHOOSE" the 5-2 channel to "delete" it, the damn thing attempts to TUNE it in....thereby leading to yet ANOTHER lock up!


So, either I'll have to remove the OTA coaxial from the back of the unit and DELETE 5-2, or maybe I'll try unplugging my pre-amp power supply and go about deleting the channel that way.


Either way, more irritation and aggravation that I'd like to do without










I haven't tried 5-2 on either of my HDTIVO's or my Hughes E86 receiver.


----------



## HDntheCity

by all means avoid ch 5-2. my D* Sammy 160 also locked up when i tuned to this ch & i had to disconnect the antenna lead & reboot to get it to unlock(after 2 failed reboots). apparently if the box gets ANY sig. form 5-2 it freezes. thought it was a quirk of my Sammy but must be something weird with this sig.



jim


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that they are receiving programming on 7-3? Almost looks like the NBC Weather subchannel on 4-2.



Yeah, I noticed that I am now getting 7-2 and 7-3. I never remember getting 7-2 before either. Is this new? It seems to be offering children's programming, and 7-3 is weather. I hope this doesn't too severly decrease the picture quality of ABC HD.


----------



## suzook11

i am looking for some input. I live in medford, which is about 60 miles out from nyc. I just installed a channel master 4248 yagi, that i got for free. I am also using a channel master spartan 3 3041 dsb preamp. my signals are as follows

cbs-99

nbc-65-70

fox-80

abc-88-90

upn-80-82

wb-65-70

wliw-90

wlny-92


i justwanted to ask a few questions. I have frequent dropouts on nbc. My signal will go from 65 to zero. Do you think a better preamp or antenna would help? Or is this caused by some sort of interference? Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lastplace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What does an attenuator do?
> 
> 
> Which one on these would work?
> 
> http://www.e-meca.com/rf-attenuator.htm




The OP is very close to a strong transmitter. The attenuator will lower all signals (direct and indirect) and may help fight multipath in that very strong signal environment.


these are more like it, though:

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ctGroup_ID=533


----------



## TriplePhatGoose

Hi, can anyone recommend a good antenna installer for the Jersey City, NJ area? I already have an antenna on my roof but it hasn't worked since the transmitting tower at the World Trade Center was destroyed on Sep. 11. I'm about 6 miles out from midtown Manhattan but can't get a signal with a POS indoor Terk silver sensor. Although I am pretty close to the towers, there are large church steeples and apartment buildings around causing signal problems. Want to correct this with a rooftop antenna. I live in the 2nd floor of a house in the 07305 area code. Would appreciate any advice, and please PM me with any recommendations. Thanks.


----------



## shamelli




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDntheCity* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> by all means avoid ch 5-2. my D* Sammy 160 also locked up when i tuned to this ch & i had to disconnect the antenna lead & reboot to get it to unlock(after 2 failed reboots). apparently if the box gets ANY sig. form 5-2 it freezes. thought it was a quirk of my Sammy but must be something weird with this sig.
> 
> 
> 
> jim



Same here, Fox sub channel 5-2 froze my SIR-TS360 and the reset button had no effect, as u indicated the only way was to disconnect the ota antenna from it; BTW WTF are they sending on 5-2 for it to paralyze our boxes .


----------



## POWERFUL

5-1 froze and completely dropped out tonight between 9:08-9:12 on my LST-3410A right in the middle of 24, nice work WNYW.


----------



## lastplace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TriplePhatGoose* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi, can anyone recommend a good antenna installer for the Jersey City, NJ area? I already have an antenna on my roof but it hasn't worked since the transmitting tower at the World Trade Center was destroyed on Sep. 11. I'm about 6 miles out from midtown Manhattan but can't get a signal with a POS indoor Terk silver sensor. Although I am pretty close to the towers, there are large church steeples and apartment buildings around causing signal problems. Want to correct this with a rooftop antenna. I live in the 2nd floor of a house in the 07305 area code. Would appreciate any advice, and please PM me with any recommendations. Thanks.



Looks like you may need a rotating antenna


DTV Antenna

Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live

Date Compass

Orientation Miles

From Frequency

Assignment

* red - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 UPN SECAUCUS NJ 71° 6.3 38

* red - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 i NEW YORK NY 91° 4.0 30

* red - uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK NY 110° 5.9 24

* red - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 71° 6.3 44

* red - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 71° 6.3 40

* red - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 71° 6.3 61

* red - vhf WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK NJ 269° 22.4 8

* red - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 346° 12.8 51

* red - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 WB NEW YORK NY 71° 6.3 33

* red - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN NJ 91° 4.0 36

* red - uhf WFME-DT 66.1 REL WEST MILFORD NJ 318° 10.6 29

* red - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 71° 6.3 56

* red - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 67° 6.6 45

* blue - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 67° 7.0 28

* violet - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK NJ 67° 6.6 53

Note:


Maybe not, most network stations are 67 deg to 71 deg


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I noticed that I am now getting 7-2 and 7-3. I never remember getting 7-2 before either. Is this new? It seems to be offering children's programming, and 7-3 is weather. I hope this doesn't too severly decrease the picture quality of ABC HD.



I did a ten second recording of each of the WABC-DT channels,

7-1 WABC-HD had a average of 13 MB's during lost in HD









Even worse the the up convert for non HD programming is 11 MB's.

7-2 WABC+ had a average of 2.88 MB's

7-3 WABCnow had a average of 1.58 MB's


I hope the are not taking bandwith away from 7-1 to run 7-3.

If anything they should cut 7-2 to 2 or 2.5 and give that bandwith back to the HD feed.


----------



## boschg

Arghh.... WNET-DT is off the air? I get it from Empire State Building without any problem usually, but it seems gone now. Anyone else seeing this? (or better: not seeing it










-Geert


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hope the are not taking bandwith away from 7-1 to run 7-3.



of course they are


----------



## trumpace

13-1, 13-2, 13-3 all on the air here in Manhattan.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> of course they are



Well I just checked again and I am still getting 13 MB's on WABC-HD.


I was getting around 16 MB's in January. Where did the other 3 MB go if it's not being used by the other sub channels?


Why would the bit rate be reduced to 13 MB?


On further review I guess I should not complain.

I just did a recording of WNYW-DT and the average was 11 MB's.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trumpace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 13-1, 13-2, 13-3 all on the air here in Manhattan.



WNET-DT is also still on the air via Cablevison.


----------



## boschg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trumpace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 13-1, 13-2, 13-3 all on the air here in Manhattan.



Thanks for the confirmation. They're back now for me too. In the meantime I got my Sony DHG-250HDD to lock on for just a moment or two during the outage, and the S/N ratio was only 14 dB instead of the usual 25-28 or so. Either they reduced their( already low) power during that timeframe, or there was some unrelated issue. Anyway, everything is back to normal now.


Today a neighbor had Time Warner visit for the third time to get her cable service restored, and at every visit they manage to remove my coax from the roof antenna into my home. Their incompetence was the reason to move to OTA in the first place, and I can't believe they keep messing up my reception!







Last time when they tried to reconnect they gave me a crappy basic cable signal instead. Now I'm labeling my coax with "DON'T TOUCH OR ELSE!" labels










BTW, since going from analog basic cable to digital OTA I'm really surprised how much better my standard 27" CRT TV looks. Especially colors are better and more saturated, and solid color is really solid without a hint of snow or ghosting. Eventually down and get a good LCD screen, of course.


----------



## POWERFUL

Go to butterfly photo they have the westinghouse 19" LCD for under 400, and its widescreen.


----------



## harican

PAX-TV or the "I" Channel is multicasting 4 ways on channel 30


31-1 PAX

31-2 Faith Channel

31-3 Worship Channel

31-4 ??


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harican* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PAX-TV or the "I" Channel is multicasting 4 ways on channel 30
> 
> 
> 31-1 PAX
> 
> 31-2 Faith Channel
> 
> 31-3 Worship Channel
> 
> 31-4 ??



My TV shows all four in its EPG, but I've only seen programming on 31-1.


Dave Kristol


----------



## Dm84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My TV shows all four in its EPG, but I've only seen programming on 31-1.
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol



I was flipping through the channels and I got programming on all 4.


----------



## icemannyr

I noticed WNBC 4.4 is now broadcasting.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed WNBC 4.4 is now broadcasting.



Great










Everyone complains about DBS watering down HD but OTA is really killing HD!


----------



## trumpace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone complains about DBS watering down HD but OTA is really killing HD!



That hasn't been my experience.


I don't have cable nor satellite, but, aside fronm ocasional momentary dropouts, my

reception is OK.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trumpace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That hasn't been my experience.
> 
> 
> I don't have cable nor satellite, but, aside fronm ocasional momentary dropouts, my
> 
> reception is OK.



It's not a reception issue (per se), it's more a QUALITY of image/picture issue.... especially with larger displays. 13-1 ALWAYS looked great on my 26" HD LCD TV in the kitchen. When I recently upgraded to a 50" plasma that I also have hooked up to my OTA antenna that receives 13-1, I started noticing that PBS-HD showed noticeable picture quality issues that are NOT noticeable on the 26" when running the same program at the same time (macroblocking in particular) on fast motion scenes. Of course, 13 runs 3 subchannels at the same time....so it's not surprising that there would be picture quality issues in that regard.


----------



## trumpace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's not a reception issue (per se), it's more a QUALITY of image/picture issue.... especially with larger displays. 13-1 ALWAYS looked great on my 26" HD LCD TV in the kitchen. When I recently upgraded to a 50" plasma that I also have hooked up to my OTA antenna that receives 13-1, I started noticing that PBS-HD showed noticeable picture quality issues that are NOT noticeable on the 26" when running the same program at the same time (macroblocking in particular) on fast motion scenes. Of course, 13 runs 3 subchannels at the same time....so it's not surprising that there would be picture quality issues in that regard.



I get the logic of your gripe that crowding all those subchannels into their frequency allocation must result in the degradation of their picture, but to my untrained eyes I

haven't yet been bothered by it.


I view HD on a direct view 26" set and a 50" plasma and haven't noticed any macroblocking so far. Maybe I haven't noticed it because I don't know what it is.

What is it?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trumpace* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I get the logic of your gripe that crowding all those subchannels into their frequency allocation must result in the degradation of their picture, but to my untrained eyes I
> 
> haven't yet been bothered by it.
> 
> 
> I view HD on a direct view 26" set and a 50" plasma and haven't noticed any macroblocking so far. Maybe I haven't noticed it because I don't know what it is.
> 
> What is it?



In a nutshell, if there's quick action on the screen or fast moving images you'll see "noise" or some digital PQ degradation:

http://hometheaterfocus.com/blog/arc...05/29/207.aspx 


I've noticed it on some OTA stations (most notably NJN-HD as well as the national PBS-HD feed picked up on 13-1) and not JUST on DirecTV broadcasts (i.e compression issues).


----------



## icemannyr

Yes WNET PQ of PBS-HD is bad. Moderate to fast movement of the camera or objects results in macroblocking.


WCBS-DT still has no sub channel yet.


----------



## SnellKrell

WCBS-DT in the past, during the presidential political conventions, had channel 2.2 providing wall-to-wall coverage and other features from the conventions' sites.


If stations can find a financial model to make more money, just wait to see how long it will be before WCBS and other stations max-out the use of multicasting.


Then, we'll have to say goodbye to true high definition!


Gary


----------



## dan57

I have less of an issue with WNET simulcasting as compared to.... hmmm, let's see..... WNBC for example. At least WNET is offering children's programming on one of its multicasts, which is of some value to me having a young child. Furthmore, WNET is publically funded.


WNBC, on the other hand, is offering that useless weather channel on its substation. Blech!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have less of an issue with WNET simulcasting as compared to.... hmmm, let's see..... WNBC for example. At least WNET is offering children's programming on one of its multicasts, which is of some value to me having a young child. Furthmore, WNET is publically funded.
> 
> 
> WNBC, on the other hand, is offering that useless weather channel on its substation. Blech!



I just realize that WNBC is pretty much the ONE network that I watch absotively NO prime-time programming from. NONE!


I'll Tivo the occassional Leno episode here and there, but I honestly don't watch ONE show from the peacock.










Now the wife on the other hand is a huge L&O fan, Vegas etc... But oddly enough, I haven't "gone there" yet


----------



## Dave Kristol

[How's *that* for a jargon-filled subject?







]


This is a slightly off-topic question. Can someone point me at a DVR that can record OTA HD, *especially* one that does not incur a monthly fee? (In other words, not TiVo.) It looks as though most HD DVRs are pitched to people with cable service.


TIA

Dave Kristol


----------



## shamelli

 Check your local Best Buy if they are any units left


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [How's *that* for a jargon-filled subject?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]
> 
> 
> This is a slightly off-topic question. Can someone point me at a DVR that can record OTA HD, *especially* one that does not incur a monthly fee? (In other words, not TiVo.) It looks as though most HD DVRs are pitched to people with cable service.
> 
> 
> TIA
> 
> Dave Kristol




I just bought a Sony DHG-HDD250 for $499 from Best Buy. If you're a good customer you should've just got a coupon packet for 10% - 12% off from 3/10 to 3/13 so if you see one pick it up. I actually tunes as well as my Samsung SIRT-451 and it records beautifiully. You won't notice a difference. If you are more daring you can find the DHG-HDD500 on ebay all in the 500 range and it records 2x as much TV as the 250


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In a nutshell, if there's quick action on the screen or fast moving images you'll see "noise" or some digital PQ degradation:
> 
> http://hometheaterfocus.com/blog/arc...05/29/207.aspx
> 
> 
> I've noticed it on some OTA stations (most notably NJN-HD as well as the national PBS-HD feed picked up on 13-1) and not JUST on DirecTV broadcasts (i.e compression issues).



I dont think the "noise" is due to PQ. I have a 4 year old Toshiba HDTV and I get all the NYC channels OTA and when there is fast movement there is no problem. I have been dying for the past year or so to replace this large RPTV with a sleek LCD but for one reason or another they just dont make quite the right TV I'd want. For instance, MOST TVs are 1366 x 720 and even worse most Plasmas are 1024 x 768. When I look at alot of these TVs from a distance they're fabulous. Get up closer and you see smearing, screen door effect, pixels, and halos or jagged edges around letters. The main problem is the response time of turning the pixels on and off. Samsung has some EXCELLENT TVs (26/32/40/46) that are 8ms response time and they are THAT GOOD. But, the key is to but the "9" series TVs. Best Buy sells the rubes the "8" series and they have 12ms response times. But, the one drawback is they're all 1366 x 720. CRTs just refresh faster than all the newer TVs. So I think what you're seeing is the same thing as with analog CRT TVs. My 20 inch Sony ALWAYS had a MUCH crisper picture than a 27 or 32". It just that it's the same number of pixels just squeezed tighter.


----------



## ehren

Does WCBS.com post what NCAA basketball games they have? I don't see anything yet, but of course it is only Monday.


----------



## icemannyr

Yes it does now, the TV schedule has been updated, http://wcbstv.com/programming 

16th

12:10pm NCAA TOURNAMENT

12:15pm NCAA IN HIGH DEFINITION// Wichita State vs. Seton Hall & Tennesse vs. Winthrop


7pm NCAA TOURNAMENT// LSU vs. Iona... Syracuse vs. Texas A&M

7:15pm NCAA IN HIGH DEFINITION// George Washington vs. UNC-Wilmington & Duke vs. Southern


17th

12:10pm NCAA TOURNAMENT

12:15pm NCAA IN HIGH DEFINITION// Arizona vs. Wisconsin & Villanova vs.

7pm NCAA TOURNAMENT

7:15pm NCAA IN HIGH DEFINITION// UCONN- Albany & Kentucky-UAB1


----------



## ehren

excellent, thanks much


----------



## Ted Todorov

Hi -- I live on the Upper West Side in the 70s, 4th floor, South facing windows (and deck) towards courtyard. No view of ESB.


Any suggestions on an antenna? For Elgato EyeTV 500. What are my chances of getting decent reception?


(Yes I did go to antennaweb, it tells me I need a medium roof top directional antenna -- needless to say I do not have roof access, but the roof is only one story above me & my deck anyway -- not that I want some big ugly thing on my deck).


Anyway -- any and all suggestions gratefully appreciated, I am an HDTV newbie.


Ted


----------



## muadib

Ted, have you tried an indoor antenna? Bestbuy carries this , which is a which a knock off of the Silver Sensor . I'd to find the Silver Sensor first, as it will be cheaper, and will work just as well. If that doesn't work, you should then try to add an amplifier . Good luck.


----------



## SnellKrell

Ted -


You could try an amplifier, if you can return it.


Your problem will not be too weak of a signal, but you will be dealing with multipath reception. I strongly recommend the Silver Sensor. I live in the East 60s, also without line-of-sight to the ESB. and use one with pretty decent results.


An amplifier will do nothing but overload your tuner.


Gary


----------



## Roger Lococco

for the 2nd night in a row,the ota digital broadcasts seem to be out ,starting around 12:45.


----------



## CountryJoe

Way past my bedtime


----------



## icemannyr

I can't get a high enough signal to tune in WABC-DT which was never a problem.

Just now the signal came back to 70% I still get choppy audio but no video.


Also WABC-DT is out via Cablevision.


----------



## netman

no problem here in Suffolk OTA or cable


----------



## dbfresh23

I just started looking at antennas to add HDTV to my HTPC and looking for suggestions on an antenna for the roof. I went to Antennaweb.org and it only listed analog channels as available to me, being broadcast from the Empire State Building. Obviously after looking at this thread it would seem that HDs are also being broadcast. Acording to Antennaweb I am 53 miles North of the broadcast location of the channels I am interested in. Can someone suggest an antenna that will not be a gigantic eyesore but still able to do 53 miles? I was looking at the Winegard SquareShooter w/ pre amp that claims a 40-50 mile reach, but not sure if that may be pushing it. Antennaweb puts me in the Violet (fringe?) area. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## CountryJoe

You might want to call the folks at AntennasDirect. I bought a 91xg from them. They are very nice and know what they are talking about. I had a technical question that the woman who answered could not answer and she got a tech. on the phone, who answered everything. I am able to reach a channel in Jersey that is showing as over 50 miles away.


----------



## icemannyr

No HD for the NJ Nets home game on WWOR-DT tonight and I am guessing no HD for the Yankee home games either.


----------



## freehd

I recently bought an HDTV with ATSC QAM. I live in Stamford, CT and have CableVision IO Broadcast Basic package. The BB package includes local HD channels according to their website. However, when I hooked cable to the DTV input and scanned channel, it found 30+ channels, but only one digital music channel is visible. It is a blank screen for all other 30+ channels. I called cablevision, the CSR told me I have to get a cablebox for $5+ monthly rental just to get local HD. That is ridiculous if they encrypt local HD channels. Someone has posted on the forum that FCC requires cable company to carry local HD in the clear. Are there anyone with CableVision in Stamford area who can view HD channels without a cable box? I also tried with an indoor antenna. I do not get any analog or DTV channels at all. Is it because there are no TV towers close enough to Stamford?


Thanks.


----------



## wbrack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *freehd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I recently bought an HDTV with ATSC QAM. I live in Stamford, CT and have CableVision IO Broadcast Basic package. The BB package includes local HD channels according to their website. However, when I hooked cable to the DTV input and scanned channel, it found 30+ channels, but only one digital music channel is visible. It is a blank screen for all other 30+ channels. I called cablevision, the CSR told me I have to get a cablebox for $5+ monthly rental just to get local HD. That is ridiculous if they encrypt local HD channels. Someone has posted on the forum that FCC requires cable company to carry local HD in the clear. Are there anyone with CableVision in Stamford area who can view HD channels without a cable box? I also tried with an indoor antenna. I do not get any analog or DTV channels at all. Is it because there are no TV towers close enough to Stamford?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I believe there may be something wrong with the TV or the hook-up.

I am on CV here on Long Island and I have basic cable and get all the local

broadcast stations unencrypted with a QAM enabled TV. No cable box required.

Regarding OTA reception in Stamford, you may not be able to receive much with

an indoor antenna, your nearest stations are located in Bridgeport, which is not

much closer than NYC, where most local stations are transmitting from the

Empire State Building.


wb


----------



## freehd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wbrack* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe there may be something wrong with the TV or the hook-up.
> 
> I am on CV here on Long Island and I have basic cable and get all the local
> 
> broadcast stations unencrypted with a QAM enabled TV. No cable box required.
> 
> Regarding OTA reception in Stamford, you may not be able to receive much with
> 
> an indoor antenna, your nearest stations are located in Bridgeport, which is not
> 
> much closer than NYC, where most local stations are transmitting from the
> 
> Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> wb



Thanks wbrack - I am pretty sure the hookup was correct, because I was able to find 30+ DTV channels with channel names like ABCHD. But only 1 digital music channel has some sound and image. The others are all dead. Do you have the Family basic package or the Broadcast basic package? Is there a way to test the QAM tuner? I would hate to return the TV to costco.


----------



## wbrack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *freehd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks wbrack - I am pretty sure the hookup was correct, because I was able to find 30+ DTV channels with channel names like ABCHD. But only 1 digital music channel has some sound and image. The others are all dead. Do you have the Family basic package or the Broadcast basic package? Is there a way to test the QAM tuner? I would hate to return the TV to costco.



Well, I don't know how your TV works, but when I do a channel scan on mine, it

ignores all the encrypted channels. So if it finds ABC HD there should be a picture.

I have family cable which requires broadcast basic. You can't have family without

the other. Do you see all the standard definition channels? And are you sure your

tv is DCR (Digital Cable Ready) I have never found a digital music channel on my

TV, but that might be just CV on Long Island. Before you take the TV back, keep

checking the various forums to see if you can find somebody in your area that

uses CV. I know that CV in CT may not be exactly the same as LI, but I really

doubt the standard broadcast would be encrypted on your system.


wb


----------



## ykavs

I just noticed tonight that 11.2, which was broadcasting the same program as 11.1 in Spanish has become a new 11.2 music/MTV channel and 11.3 SD version of 11.1. The picture quality of 11.2 was not great but I relly like the idea to have a music channel.


----------



## dturturro

Has anyone noticed a drop in the WB signal stregnth the last day or two? Just wondering if my signal drop outs are related to this.


----------



## harican




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ykavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just noticed tonight that 11.2, which was broadcasting the same program as 11.1 in Spanish has become a new 11.2 music/MTV channel and 11.3 SD version of 11.1. The picture quality of 11.2 was not great but I relly like the idea to have a music channel.



I love it! But what is going to happen once WPIX-DT goes off the air end of 2006 and change over to the new CW Network?

http://www.thetubetv.com


----------



## harican

Unfortunately "The Tube Music Network" has been removed from WPIX-DT 11-2.

I am just glad that I was able to archive some of the content.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harican* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I love it! But what is going to happen once WPIX-DT goes off the air end of 2006 and change over to the new CW Network?
> 
> http://www.thetubetv.com



WPIX-DT is not going off the air!


What is changing is that the WB Network is merging with another network,UPN to become a new entity - the CW network.


WPIX and WPIX-DT will be the New York area affiliated stations carrying the new network's programming.


Gary


----------



## muadib




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WPIX-DT is not going off the air!
> 
> 
> What is changing is that the WB Network is merging with another network,UPN to become a new entity - the CW network.
> 
> 
> WPIX and WPIX-DT will be the New York area affiliated stations carrying the new network's programming.
> 
> 
> Gary



What happens to channel 9?


----------



## ghostman

FOX is launching a new network, MyNetworkTV, from the remnants of the UPN that FOX owns (channel 9 is one) and others. The new network is going to be an American take on the telenovela. Launch is scheduled for the fall season.


----------



## dan57

I noticed yesterday that 11-3 had a simulcast of the Mets game in Spanish.


----------



## harican

Wouldn't it be good if Fox - WNYW-DT, carried the Fox Reality Channel, http://www.foxreality.com , on digital sub channel, 5-2, instead of the -current- UPN feed?

I think that the networks should carry their newest channels on digital tv. Most of the time the channels aren't carried by the cable companies and this would be a way to generate interest in these channels.........


----------



## harican

Okay, as of 4:50 pm on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 ( a time now history) The Tube Music Network is back on the air. WPIX-DT, channel 11-2


----------



## dturturro

And once again my reception of WB goes to hell. Did anyone else have reception trouble with WPIX-DT last night?


----------



## jaypb

.....while analog 7 was covering the Tram failure in the city. I found it *cool* that anyone who was watching an ABC show at 10pm last night was able to...instead of having to miss a show for news coverage. Did any of the other local stations digital channels also cover the Tram or did they all leave the network programming on and just put the analog channel into "breaking news" coverage?


I didn't bother to check 2 or 4 at 10pm to see what they were doing.


----------



## TravelFan1

I am wondering if the NJ Nets and Yankees games via Channel 9 in New York market are broadcasted in HD - because, if so, I will for sure get an HD antenna tonight to be able to watch NJ Nets in HD, since Comcast doesn't carry Channel 9 HD feed here in NJ.


----------



## pcconsultant

Did anyone notice a 'strobing' effect on Medium last night (4/24), similar to watching 24 FPS versus 30 FPS? I tuned to Medium and thought it was part of a dream sequence, but after 15 minutes and a headache, I decided it was either my receiver (Dish 622- watching OTA) or the broadcast. Note that I watched FOX 24 prior to Medium via OTA, and it was fine on my receiver. In fact, the suitcase game show that was on earlier on WNBC digital was fine, as well. An interesting note is that lip sync was perfect on Medium.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravelFan1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am wondering if the NJ Nets and Yankees games via Channel 9 in New York market are broadcasted in HD - because, if so, I will for sure get an HD antenna tonight to be able to watch NJ Nets in HD, since Comcast doesn't carry Channel 9 HD feed here in NJ.



I don't watch the Nets, but the Yankees' games on 9 are definitely SD. My guess is that the same is true for the Nets.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pcconsultant* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did anyone notice a 'strobing' effect on Medium last night (4/24), similar to watching 24 FPS versus 30 FPS? I tuned to Medium and thought it was part of a dream sequence, but after 15 minutes and a headache, I decided it was either my receiver (Dish 622- watching OTA) or the broadcast. Note that I watched FOX 24 prior to Medium via OTA, and it was fine on my receiver. In fact, the suitcase game show that was on earlier on WNBC digital was fine, as well. An interesting note is that lip sync was perfect on Medium.



Wish I could help, but I'm not a Medium viewer. Along the same lines: Invasion, on ABC from last Wednesday---anyone else (hell, not even sure if anyone watches it.....) notice the OTA feed on 7-1 giving them green lines shooting across the screen as well as pulsing dark areas preceding said green lines? I didn't get a chance to sit down and watch my recording until this past weekend. My other recordings on my HDTIVO from that night OTA were fine .


----------



## johnnyhd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravelFan1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am wondering if the NJ Nets and Yankees games via Channel 9 in New York market are broadcasted in HD - because, if so, I will for sure get an HD antenna tonight to be able to watch NJ Nets in HD, since Comcast doesn't carry Channel 9 HD feed here in NJ.



Unfortunately, the nets on My Nine, are also in SD. Quite disappointing.


----------



## Roger Lococco

has anyone else noticed "glitching" on WABC-DT all day long?it seems to happen every minute or two,and I don't notice it on the subchannel.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> has anyone else noticed "glitching" on WABC-DT all day long?it seems to happen every minute or two,and I don't notice it on the subchannel.



Yes, very annoying. Had to switch to the station's analog channel.


Gary


----------



## Roger Lococco

thanks Gary for confirming it,I thought my Accurian was failing,lol.


----------



## jayans04

I'm getting my Samsung LCD tele Wednesday. Can anyone recommend a GOOD INDOOR hdtv antenna for HD channels 1-13 basically ABC, CBS and FOX to watch for my TV? I'm facing east and I live in Bellerose, NY by Little Neck PKWY. Thanks!


----------



## berniec

Does anybody know of a reputable repair shop that works on Plasmas in the NYC/NNJ area?


My 3 year old Gateway (rebranded Sampro) plasma has decided to only power on and show black- then refuses to respond to any commands via the front panel or remote, including to power back off.


I suspect it's just a controller board of some kinda that's gone bad, but need somebody that can get parts for the unit.


Thanks,

Bernie


----------



## POWERFUL

Hey anyone from Long Island want to help me install a DB4 to the back of my folk's house on Friday afternoon? I'd write the details but if you go and read the last 30 or so posts from the Long Island thread you will get the gist of what I'm dealing with here. In a nutshell I'm trying to pull in NBC (since we get everything else) from a single story Commack house. I have the time to do it and my father would like to get it installed and working before the Derby on Saturday. I can't really do the problem justice in one post so it definitely helps you to understand my problem if you go to the LI thread, but just to get my voice out here and possibly get someone would help. PM me if you think you can help.


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jayans04* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm getting my Samsung LCD tele Wednesday. Can anyone recommend a GOOD INDOOR hdtv antenna for HD channels 1-13 basically ABC, CBS and FOX to watch for my TV? I'm facing east and I live in Bellerose, NY by Little Neck PKWY. Thanks!



with indoor antennas,there's no knowing how good they are until you bring them home,and try it out in your location. In my own experience,I had bought and returned many amplified antennas,and shockingly what works best is the piece of crap 3.99 bowtie from Radio Shack,lol.You could try getting your hands on a Silver Sensor(and possibly hooking it up to an amplifier) or you could try this antenna,meant for outdoor use,but can be used indoors.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=ANC3021


----------



## petre11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jayans04* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm getting my Samsung LCD tele Wednesday. Can anyone recommend a GOOD INDOOR hdtv antenna for HD channels 1-13 basically ABC, CBS and FOX to watch for my TV? I'm facing east and I live in Bellerose, NY by Little Neck PKWY. Thanks!



got the samsung lns3251d on saturday for manhattan apartment. Terk HDTVa antenna pro, which is amplified, gets all nyc hd channels except for ch 13. $55 at b&h photo, price matched at pc richards, which also price matched the samsung with 12 months % free financing.


good luck


----------



## jayans04




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> with indoor antennas,there's no knowing how good they are until you bring them home,and try it out in your location. In my own experience,I had bought and returned many amplified antennas,and shockingly what works best is the piece of crap 3.99 bowtie from Radio Shack,lol.You could try getting your hands on a Silver Sensor(and possibly hooking it up to an amplifier) or you could try this antenna,meant for outdoor use,but can be used indoors.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petre11* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> got the samsung lns3251d on saturday for manhattan apartment. Terk HDTVa antenna pro, which is amplified, gets all nyc hd channels except for ch 13. $55 at b&h photo, price matched at pc richards, which also price matched the samsung with 12 months % free financing.
> 
> 
> good luck



I got my Samsung lns3241d today so I won't be able to see it till Thurs. How much did you get the lns3251d for? I got the 41d for $1050 w/4yr warranty, wall mount, and this antenna amazon/gp/product/B00006FXR9/sr=8-1/qid=1146603817/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2613388-8261666?%5Fencoding=UTF8


So that brings me to my next question...does anyone know if this is the actual Zenith Silver Sensor antenna? It says Zenith on the title but is manufactured by gemini the link is above or right here amazon/gp/product/B00006FXR9/sr=8-1/qid=1146603817/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2613388-8261666?%5Fencoding=UTF8 .. Thanks!


----------



## Roger Lococco

can't see the link,but I'm pretty sure it's the Silver Sensor,it was sold under the Zenith,Philips/Magnavox, and Gemini brands.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harican* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately "The Tube Music Network" has been removed from WPIX-DT 11-2.
> 
> I am just glad that I was able to archive some of the content.



It's back.


----------



## Roger Lococco

Alias is glitching like crazy right now,presumably Lost will be all screwed up too.


----------



## dturturro

Saw the same thing on Lost. My receptions been really off the last few weeks. WB, Fox, UPN and CBS have all been affected at one point or another. Only NBC seems to be coming in without any hickups for me. Theories?


----------



## Roger Lococco

could it be the warmer weather is causing interference and/or lowering signal strength?WPIX seemed to get a little stronger a few weeks ago,around the same time the Tube music channel started,but now it's pretty weak.

Not reception related,but something sorta interesting happened on 10 o'clock news on FOX,they had a major technical problem,an(automated?) camera kept zooming in and out on Ernie Anastos,then they cut to a commercial,then they tried to show a few minutes of MASH,finally they just switched to WOR's news.


----------



## icemannyr

WNYW had a power issue in the studio that's why then went to My9.


I'm also having a harder time locking in WPIX-DT for northern NJ.


----------



## icemannyr

The audio is low and I have horizontal lines on the video on the OTA and cable WABC-DT feed.
 


I know also a few days ago this week the video was going out every few seconds on all programming.


----------



## Roger Lococco

I wonder if the PSIP for ABC is also messed up,I did arescan on my Accurian ,now when I hit 7 on the remote,it doesn't work,I have to tune in 45 instead.NBC is also the same,I have to press 28 instead of 4.

edit: nevermind-weird,I noticed the stb had added "additional"7-1 and 4-1 channels,those were the ones I had being trying to watch.


----------



## gpg

Anyone besides me have trouble with WABC-DT during Gray's Anatomy tonight? Lots of breakups followed a complete signal loss. I had no problems with my other OTA digital signals.


----------



## Roger Lococco

I only watched maybe the first 10 minutes,but I didn't notice any breakups.I notice reception today on NBC-DT is very poor.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I only watched maybe the first 10 minutes,but I didn't notice any breakups.I notice reception today on NBC-DT is very poor.



Speaking of reception/signal issues: Are there any local OTA viewers of 13-1 who've noticed any signal/reception issues? I TIVO'D a showing of "The Desert Speaks" overnight Sunday AM (5:30 ?) and the whole 30 minute broadcast had various sections with quick "flashing" of a fixed image on the screen. (lasted for a fingersnap). When I rewound the TIVO to watch it again in slo-mo to see what the flashing image was, all I got was a black screen that didn't match the image that I saw flash on/off the screen.


Very weird......


----------



## rcodey

Saw the same "flashing" on 13-1Hd this weekend


----------



## dturturro

I had no problems with Grey's last night, but reception from ESB (combiner stations and Fox) has been sketcht for the last month. Just how much do leaves affect OTA reception?


----------



## ITGuy72

Watching 24 last night I noticed Fox 5 has a new logo- much worse than the old, it's practically brilliant white and hardly opaque if any at all. Very aggrevating visually. Don't have a screenshot right now, should be able to post one later.


----------



## CountryJoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ITGuy72* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Watching 24 last night I noticed Fox 5 has a new logo- much worse than the old, it's practically brilliant white and hardly opaque if any at all. Very aggrevating visually. Don't have a screenshot right now, should be able to post one later.



I noticed that, too. I really hate those things. The networks are very obnoxious with this stuff. I also hate those commercials they pop up in the lower left hand corner while a show is going on. I would love to meet one of these boneheads one day.


----------



## gpcopy

I've been having breakup difficulties too at different times during the day. The only stable channels are NBC, WNET, and NJN. I have a rotor on my antenna and I really had to play around with the position allot till I get a solid lock. Then after a few hours I have to adjust again what a pain lately! I can't even get a lock on channels 2(CBS) 5(FOX) or 11(WPIX). What are the networks doing? I hope they will resolve this problem soon. Especially when I only live less than 20 miles away from the transmitter in Bergen county.


----------



## jaypb

Just a heads up that 13-1 will have a Sheryl Crow Soundstage concert on tonight at 10pm. First Soundstage HD presentation I can recall on 13-1 in awhile......


----------



## gpcopy

It's funny you mentioned it. I saw it in HD on 50-3 about 2 weeks ago but the channel disappeared since then. That was the only time I seen NJN with HD.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gpcopy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's funny you mentioned it. I saw it in HD on 50-3 about 2 weeks ago but the channel disappeared since then. That was the only time I seen NJN with HD.



Well wouldn't you know it....I forgot to even set the (*(*& Tivo to record the darn thing......


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wbrack* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know how your TV works, but when I do a channel scan on mine, it
> 
> ignores all the encrypted channels. So if it finds ABC HD there should be a picture.
> 
> I have family cable which requires broadcast basic. You can't have family without
> 
> the other. Do you see all the standard definition channels? And are you sure your
> 
> tv is DCR (Digital Cable Ready) I have never found a digital music channel on my
> 
> TV, but that might be just CV on Long Island. Before you take the TV back, keep
> 
> checking the various forums to see if you can find somebody in your area that
> 
> uses CV. I know that CV in CT may not be exactly the same as LI, but I really
> 
> doubt the standard broadcast would be encrypted on your system.
> 
> 
> wb



Wbreck, I am just a few miles (about 15) east of you in Port Jeff area. I have CV with family also that is connected directly to my current tv (SD) which is cable ready. I am awaiting delivery of a panny 50px600 (HD) soon that will have a cable card in it and I am checking out what I might need to do additionally for HD recption.


Is your set up similar, where your cable wire is connected directly into your plasma or avr (sans in-house cablebox) so that you are picking up HD stations out of NYC via the cable without their direct assistance?


Any other comments would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## boschg

I just noticed that 13.3 is now finally added to TV Guide On Screen. (TVGOS) The channel code is WNETW. This channel has some shows I like, but if it's not on TVGOS I won't remember to tune in.


-Geert


----------



## wbrack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wbreck, I am just a few miles (about 15) east of you in Port Jeff area. I have CV with family also that is connected directly to my current tv (SD) which is cable ready. I am awaiting delivery of a panny 50px600 (HD) soon that will have a cable card in it and I am checking out what I might need to do additionally for HD recption.
> 
> 
> Is your set up similar, where your cable wire is connected directly into your plasma or avr (sans in-house cablebox) so that you are picking up HD stations out of NYC via the cable without their direct assistance?
> 
> 
> Any other comments would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks



The TV here is a Toshiba 37HL95 which has built-in ATSC and QAM tuners. It has

two RF input connectors, one for cable and the other for antenna. Since the QAM

tuner is built in, there is no cable box or cable card required to receive digital

cable, which includes the HD channels of the local TV stations, namely CBS, NBC,

ABC, Fox, WB,and PBS. If you are interested in some of the other HD channels,

such as ESPN HD, Yes Network HD, those channels are encrypted and you will

need a cable card or a cable box to receive them.


wb


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wbrack* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The TV here is a Toshiba 37HL95 which has built-in ATSC and QAM tuners. It has
> 
> two RF input connectors, one for cable and the other for antenna. Since the QAM
> 
> tuner is built in, there is no cable box or cable card required to receive digital
> 
> cable, which includes the HD channels of the local TV stations, namely CBS, NBC,
> 
> ABC, Fox, WB,and PBS. If you are interested in some of the other HD channels,
> 
> such as ESPN HD, Yes Network HD, those channels are encrypted and you will
> 
> need a cable card or a cable box to receive them.
> 
> 
> wb



Thanks much for the follow up







.


..Mark


----------



## lesc

For the past couple weeks I have been having trouble receiving WNET HD on 61.5. I live in Northern NJ and had no problems previously. Is anyone else having similar problems?



Les


----------



## NeezyDeezy

Hi guys, I just moved to Clinton Hill Brooklyn, more specifically:


500 washington av

brooklyn 11238


with my little silver sensor and my dvico tuner card


I get about 2 to 3 channels, 2-1 wcbs, 5-1 wnyw, and 68-1 wfut. Antennaweb says that because I live in a multistory building with other multistory buildings around me that I need Red directional UHF/VHF.


What do you think it will take for me to get all or most of the following networks: UPN, PBS, WB, NBC, CBS, and ABC?


I'm on the corner of the second story of a 6 story building. I have windows on 2 walls, so it surprises me I don't much.


I'm new to this, do I need to put a fancy antenna on the roof of our apartment building?


----------



## Hanson

About halfway through the middle of SNL on 5/13, the reception on NBC 28 starting blinking in and out. A couple of days later, it's just gone.


Is anyone else in Montclair NJ or anyone else in particular having a similar issue? I had assumed, due to it's total outage and lack of response to all attempts at fiddling and the fact that nothing had changed on my end (the reception on all the other channels is good), that there was an issue with NBC's transmitters. Do I just need to fiddle with it more?


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hanson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> About halfway through the middle of SNL on 5/13, the reception on NBC 28 starting blinking in and out. A couple of days later, it's just gone.
> 
> 
> Is anyone else in Montclair NJ or anyone else in particular having a similar issue? I had assumed, due to it's total outage and lack of response to all attempts at fiddling and the fact that nothing had changed on my end (the reception on all the other channels is good), that there was an issue with NBC's transmitters. Do I just need to fiddle with it more?



We watched ER in HD last night on NBC. (We're in Summit, NJ.) There were a couple of pixelation glitches, but the reception was mostly fine.


Dave Kristol


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We watched ER in HD last night on NBC. (We're in Summit, NJ.) There were a couple of pixelation glitches, but the reception was mostly fine.
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol



Does anyone else have sound issues when viewing/TIVO'ing 4-1 for Conan or Leno? I have audio issues on either live playback through my TV or my surround sound system...or time shifted stuff. In a nutshell: there is no sound coming out of the center speaker when listening on ANY sound mode on the surround sound...and when putting the TV sound on I have to crank up my Zenith sound to 75 or so...when most other NBC programming is fine at 32!


I *think* there were issues mentioned earlier in this thread.....though I can't recall off the top of my head....anyone else ?!?!?


----------



## CynKennard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have sound issues when viewing/TIVO'ing 4-1 for Conan or Leno? I have audio issues on either live playback through my TV or my surround sound system...or time shifted stuff. In a nutshell: there is no sound coming out of the center speaker when listening on ANY sound mode on the surround sound...and when putting the TV sound on I have to crank up my Zenith sound to 75 or so...when most other NBC programming is fine at 32!
> 
> 
> I *think* there were issues mentioned earlier in this thread.....though I can't recall off the top of my head....anyone else ?!?!?



The NBC network is putting out incorrectly constructed 5.1-channel audio on most audio that is not true 5.1-channel sound. This includes Leno and Conan. The sound from these programs is two-channel stereo which they insert into the left and right channels, leaving the other four channels silent. The result is a hollow echoey sound which I find very annoying. I switch to analog audio from these programs to have my receiver derive center and surround channels via Pro-logic. WCBS and WABC also do the same thing on their local programming such as the newscasts.


Cynthia


----------



## POWERFUL

Reception was spotty the last few night's here at my folks house in Commack so I understand those troubles. On another note though I have a Panasonic TU-DST51A tuner and I was watching the Yanks-Mets game in HD on WB11 but I only got the spanish language feed. I know I don't have SAP button on either the TV or the tuner so I'm thinking everyone got that or it might be an issue with the tuner, but I want to rule all other options out first. I know that I wasn't tuned to their 11-3 signal because the display popped up as 11-1. Does anyone have an answer for me?


----------



## Roger Lococco

although I didn't see that particular game,I have tuned to 11-1 and the audio was in Spanish,definitely something gets messed up on their end occasionally.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> although I didn't see that particular game,I have tuned to 11-1 and the audio was in Spanish,definitely something gets messed up on their end occasionally.



I noticed a lot of macroblocking/pixelation on fast moving scenes (i.e when someone got a basehit and they switched to the 3rd base camera to follow the hitter as he rounded first the ENTIRE background went to mush....) and I still see the same issues when they throw a fast graphic up on the screen...and then the graphic quickly disappears/disperses.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed a lot of macroblocking/pixelation on fast moving scenes (i.e when someone got a basehit and they switched to the 3rd base camera to follow the hitter as he rounded first the ENTIRE background went to mush....) and I still see the same issues when they throw a fast graphic up on the screen...and then the graphic quickly disappears/disperses.




And they waste bandwidth on another music video channel.


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> although I didn't see that particular game,I have tuned to 11-1 and the audio was in Spanish,definitely something gets messed up on their end occasionally.



Ok so at least I'm not the only one. I'll talk about it to the install guy Tuesday. Not that he'll likely know what it is all about. Thanks to those who tipped me off to Variety TV.


----------



## Roger Lococco

ABC-DT seems off air,no picture despite 70-80+ on the signal meter.


----------



## lesc

Can anyone in Northern NJ (Bergen County) verify whether they can receive WNET HD (61.5) OTA? What kind of signal strength do you receive (compared to other HD channels)?


I have not been able to receive the channel for the past 3 weeks (low signal strength). Previously, I have had no problems, but this problem appeared all of a sudden. All the other HD channels are fine...


Thanks in advance.


Les


----------



## tstatguy112




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lesc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone in Northern NJ (Bergen County) verify whether they can receive WNET HD (61.5) OTA? What kind of signal strength do you receive (compared to other HD channels)?
> 
> 
> I have not been able to receive the channel for the past 3 weeks (low signal strength). Previously, I have had no problems, but this problem appeared all of a sudden. All the other HD channels are fine...
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Les



I live in Rockland County and I am receiving WNET HD fine, but the signal does decrease a little. It does not affect the picture. You might need a rotor for your antenna, sometimes I have to tweek it to get a good signal.


----------



## Sir_Mark

I have also lost channel 7...no pic or sound....on a DISH 942 and on my HTPC using a VBox ATSC tuner...yet my Mistubishi TV can pick it up....does anyone know why?


----------



## Roger Lococco

that is indeed strange.I hope ABC gets it's act together,they've had a lot of recent problems.


----------



## shlin

My ABC-DT is fine but I cannot get CBS right now


----------



## dturturro

I missed Alias last night due to ABCs problems. CBS' Cold Case was riddled with breakups for most of the 1st half hour Sunday night. Interestingly, Charmed came through perfectly. Are these stations playing with the transmitters or something?


----------



## POWERFUL

No silly it's the wind. On a bright note Variety TV came and installed my DB4 on my folks' roof, and what a great job they did, They now get all the digitals from NYC plus WLIW, WNJU, and some spanish stations which will be good come world cup time. Also they did a great job with the install as the stations are total locks with no dropouts. Thanks again to all those who tipped me off to them.


----------



## UroDoc

I'm not a reception expert but I think that the variation in reception is due more to atmospheric conditions concerning cloud coverage, humidity, "tropospheric conditions", etc. rather than simply the wind. These effect the transmission of the airwaves and effect multipath distortion.


I have been receiving OTA HDTV for approximately 4 years and have been frustrated by the variation in the signal strength and multipath distortion depending on the weather.


I currently have a CM 4248 with a CM 7777 pre-amp and a CM 9521A rotator approximately 15' above my split level in Westbury, LI, NY. This feeds my Mitsubishi WS65907 with the Promise Module (HDTV decoder). Depending on the weather conditions I have to switch between multiple configurations to avoid losing, or to gain stations.


1. CM 7777 ON, no splitter. My current setup. Receives 2,4,5,7,9,11,13 well. However when there is heavy cloud coverage and/or rain I often will lose the most powerful stations (2 and 5 and sometimes 7) due to overdriving the HDTV receiver and or multipath distortion. At this point I will try setup 2.


2. CM 7777 ON, 2-way splitter. Sometimes this will cut the signal enough so that I can lock in on 2, 5 and sometimes 7. I will always lose channel 13, usually lose 11 and sometimes lose 9 with this setting. At times I have turned the antenna off axis 20-30 degrees to lock in on CBS (305-315 rather than 285 degrees). With this setting I will lose all other channels. If that doesn't work I go to setup 3.


3. CM 7777 OFF (bypassed), no splitter. I had been using this setup for the last several weeks but I returned to setup 1 when I lost channel 4 in addition to 11 and 13 which I never receive with this setup.


It has been my observation that when atmospheric conditions improve UHF transmission, the improvement is not uniform across the board. The more powerful stations improve more dramatically and begin to either overdrive my receiver or cause more multipath distortion. The weaker stations seem to only improve marginally. When I decrease the signal to receive the more powerful stations, I always lose some if not most weaker stations. I will always lose 13.


I had originally selected the CM 4248 rather than the 4228 because testing at:

http://www.atechfabrication.com/reception_solutions.htm 


had indicated that a Yagi would be better than a bowtie antenna to reduce multipath distortion.


At the present time I am still open to suggestions concerning different antenna choices and I continue to read this thread for ideas.


P.S. It would certainly be much more helpful if people indicated on their ID the town they live in rather than just "Long Island" so others can more accurately assess the antennas they use and problems they are encountering. It was only after someone who I think was in Smithtown stated that he was receiving channel 13 with no problems that I again changed my configuration and I am now receiving that station.


----------



## Phil Hightech

I solved my multipath problems with a Wineguard SS-1000 Square Shooter antenna. Although I get excellent signal strength on all channels, WCBS-DT would drop out everytime it rained. The SS-1000 is circularly polarized and less prone to multipath. I have a 7775 amp in the house ahead of a four way tap. The SS-1000 however, doesn't have the gain of the 4228 (which I also have on the roof for DXing) So if signal strength is not your problem and multipath is, the SS-1000 might be a remedy.


Phil


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No silly it's the wind.



Ok, that makes no sense. The two shows I was watching were both on at the same time, from the same tower, hitting the same antenna. The only difference was the frequency and the signal being fed to the tower.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, that makes no sense. The two shows I was watching were both on at the same time, from the same tower, hitting the same antenna. The only difference was the frequency and the signal being fed to the tower.



Well, you've nailed part of the enigma - "The only difference was the frequency..."


You failed to mention that the two stations, beside transmitting at different frequencies, also have different Effective Radiated Power.


Put those two together and there are the major differences when trying to equate the quality of reception emanating from the same tower and being received by the same antenna.


Gary


----------



## George Molnar

Besides physics and meteorology, this seems a mathematics problem (actually geometry and calculus together).


Because the frequencies are different, the two channels would have a fixed but different number of wavelengths in the direct path.


And they would have a fixed but different number of wavelengths in any reflective path off a static reflector.


The receive antenna adds direct and reflected signals and ideally they add in-phase (constructively).


It is bad when they add out of phase (destructively) which is the condition known as multipath and prevents the DTV receiver from decoding the data stream even though there is plenty of signal strength.


Also, the size of the static reflector affects the magnitude of reflections at differing wavelengths, too.


So wind would cause flexible static reflectors (such as tree limbs or street signs) to move slightly, thus affecting that number of wavelengths in the reflected path.


Stations' strenghts add or subtract at your receive antenna (the intersection of direct and reflected signals) and this strength can and will change based upon magnitude and length of reflected path.


Your antenna could be at the in-phase point for one frequency but the out-of-phase point for the other frequency from one reflector (trees on hilltop) and vice versa for another (billboard or traffic sign somewhere down the road).


And wet surfaces reflect differently, too. No easy way to pin down the offending reflector.


That's why it's so important to use direction receiving antennae, located clear and high, to maximize the direct signal and minimize the reception of reflections, to eliminate or greatly diminish the effects of cancellations due to out of phase received signals.


----------



## dturturro

Yes, but CBS which has the higher ERP was the one with the problem WB was coming is fine. My problem was with the wind explanation. If the wind was blowing the antenna out of alignment I'd expect to see across the board problems, no?


----------



## George Molnar

seems more likely the wind was blowing a reflector out of alignment (or perhaps into alignment) and affecting signal summations at your receive antenna by stretching (or shortening) the "reflected" path


and the size of that reflector, and length differences between the direct and reflected paths, would be frequency dependent and not necessarily affect all channels identically


so you shouldn't dismiss wind as causing dynamic multipath resulting in frequency specific signal interruptions


----------



## dturturro

ok, now the explanation makes sense. "It's the wind silly" really wasn't enough info










So from what I'm reading a more directional antenna, rather than a yagi, may help reduce this affect? I never had this problem over the winter so I'm guessing that blooming trees are most likely the culprit.


----------



## POWERFUL

George right on the money, next time I'll elaborate more to what point I'm trying to get across. Wind blowing elements is a legit reason why a fixed stationary antenna is causing you problems. Also your trees blocking your path with leaves blowing is a good reason as well.


----------



## gpcopy

I have the same problem. News, live sports and reruns. But new shows are in English. A couple weeks ago there were 2 versions 11.1, 11.2, and 11.3. One was English the other Spanish and 11.3 was The Tube. But now only 11.1 and 11.2 are present. So back to Spanish.


----------



## lesc

Thanks to everyone for the clarification.


Are NBC, CBS, ABC and WNET all broadcasting from the Empire State building? If so, the fact that I'm having difficulty with just WNET (61.5), would it be safe to assume that WNET's signal is just weaker than that of the others? (It does measures much lower at my end.) If the source location is the same for all these signals, can I rule out multi-path for my problem with WNET?


I currently live in Bergen County, NJ and I use an externally-mounted roof antenna (with a preamp).


Thanks again.


Les


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT, WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WWOR-DT, WPIX-DT and WNET-DT all transmit from the same antenna (Combiner) atop the Empire State Buidling. WNET-DT has the lowest power and the highest channel allocation.


Additionally, WNYW-DT also transmits from Empire State, but uses its own antenna - not a part of the Combiner project.


Gary


----------



## skepticon

I was previously using a radioshack indoor double-bowtie antenna with an amplifier. During the winter, all was good. I was able to get great reception on all local OTA channel (being broadcast from the Empire State Building).


This spring, most channels were still good, but I was having problems with FOX...Prison Break would continuously drop out on me (although the commercials always played just fine







)

WNET was also getting flakey on me.


I figured my issue was multipath interference, increased by the leaves, so I recently purchased a Terrestrial Digital SR-15 Uni-direction antenna. I am 12 miles from the transmitter, and the antenna has 11db of gain on it's own. I show full signal strength for CBS, but I am unable to recieve any broadcast. I show weak signal for FOX, but I recieve broadcasts just fine. I get nothing on WNET. All other channels are fine.


I have tried attenuating the signal, amplifing the signal, putting an FM trap on the line, and repostitioning the antenna to just about every possible position. Nothing is working. I assume that I am still getting multipath interference, especially on CBS. Is there anything else I can do to deal with this?


BTW...I never used to have an issue with CBS with the indoor antenna...it was always reliable. But after I installed the new yagi, I hooked the indoor antenna back up to troubleshoot, and even it won't pick up a broadcast on CBS, despite having a strong signal. Has anyone else been having an issue with CBS in the last 2 days? Perhaps there is an issue on their end?


----------



## lesc

Thanks to this forum, I've only recently learned the intricacies of OTA HD reception. And I also realize that I'm not the only person having problems receiving WNET. It's a pity because it's the station that I enjoy watching the most...


So, technically, multipath interference would affect a weaker a signal more so than a stronger one... which would explain why I'm not having any issues with the other stations being broadcast out of the Empire State Building. Aside from getting cable, is there anything else that I can try? NOTE: I already have a rooftop-mounted antenna with a preamp, pointed in the direction of the source.


(Just to clarify, I also did not have any problems during wintertime. The problem with WNET began all of a sudden around 3 weeks ago.)


Thanks again.


Les


Bergen County, NJ


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lesc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks to this forum, I've only recently learned the intricacies of OTA HD reception. And I also realize that I'm not the only person having problems receiving WNET. It's a pity because it's the station that I enjoy watching the most...
> 
> [...]



Am I the only one who's frustrated by the fact that WNET's analog programming is not mirrored on WNET-DT? I want to watch Masterpiece Theater, Mystery!, and Great Performances in HD, but WNET's HD programming bears only a passing resemblance to what shows up in newspaper TV listings.


Dave Kristol


----------



## SnellKrell

Dave -


What is being passed off as WNET-DT's HD programming, in reality is PBS's HD feed.


Two different animals!


Gary


----------



## wbrack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lesc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the clarification.
> 
> 
> Are NBC, CBS, ABC and WNET all broadcasting from the Empire State building? If so, the fact that I'm having difficulty with just WNET (61.5), would it be safe to assume that WNET's signal is just weaker than that of the others? (It does measures much lower at my end.) If the source location is the same for all these signals, can I rule out multi-path for my problem with WNET?
> 
> 
> I currently live in Bergen County, NJ and I use an externally-mounted roof antenna (with a preamp).
> 
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> 
> Les



Yes, WNET-DT Ch-61 is very much weaker than than the rest of the network stations.

For instance, WCBS-DT on Ch-56 transmitts with 349 KW, whereas WNET only uses 12.4 KW for their transmitter. I guess they are trying to save on

their electric bill.


wb


----------



## POWERFUL

Speaking of Tranmitting Power, what is the Max limit on power, a UHF station can use to broadcast their signal? And for that matter what is the Max limit on VHF Lo and Hi?


----------



## zielin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NeezyDeezy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi guys, I just moved to Clinton Hill Brooklyn, more specifically:
> 
> 
> 500 washington av
> 
> brooklyn 11238
> 
> 
> with my little silver sensor and my dvico tuner card
> 
> 
> I get about 2 to 3 channels, 2-1 wcbs, 5-1 wnyw, and 68-1 wfut. Antennaweb says that because I live in a multistory building with other multistory buildings around me that I need Red directional UHF/VHF.
> 
> 
> What do you think it will take for me to get all or most of the following networks: UPN, PBS, WB, NBC, CBS, and ABC?
> 
> 
> I'm on the corner of the second story of a 6 story building. I have windows on 2 walls, so it surprises me I don't much.
> 
> 
> I'm new to this, do I need to put a fancy antenna on the roof of our apartment building?




I'm semi-close to u.. i'm in dumbo, there is alot of building going on here.. and i just lost my diriect view of the ESB - can't be more than a mile or two (directly).

I was using a silver sensor and it worked GREAT (when i could see the ESB) now i get NOTHING. *sigh*

I should have my Lacrosse-A Multi-Directional HDTV Antenna at the end of next week - should be be MASSIVE overkill ^_^

i'll update u on how well it does inside and outside.


----------



## Roger Lococco

your evaluation of the Lacrosse will be quite interesting.


----------



## IceMan5043

A quick question for any of you guys: Does WLIW-21 broadcast only in digital or is ANY content also in HD? And if so, 720p or 1080i HD? That's it for now, thanks!


----------



## SnellKrell

Unfortunately, WLIW-DT no longer broadcasts in HD!


Gary


----------



## IceMan5043

Wow, that was fast! Thanks, that's actually good for me, because it's the only major channel I can't pick up with my trusty Silver Sensor from North Jersey (40 miles away). Hmm, while we're on it, since I'm using the highly directional Silver Sensor, when I point my antenna just south of due east to get all my locals, I DO NOT receive NJN from Montclair, NJ, even though it transmits from (literally) just down my road. The problem is that I'd have to point the antenna nearly due north to get that one channel. However, I get NJN out of New Brunswick, NJ (23 miles away) just fine. So my newbie question is whether or not the NJN from Montclair broadcasts anything different from the NJN in New Brunswick, or if it's exactly the same programming. Because if that's the case, then I'm not missing anything and don't have to worry. Thanks again!


----------



## Roger Lococco

there's only one NJN,so I'm sure the programming is identical.


----------



## IceMan5043

Thanks! Just wondering, is there any HD content on NJN?


----------



## SnellKrell

HD and SD with wide screen programming is on the air from 8 p.m. to Midnight.


All NJN stations use their fifth channel for this service. Therefore, from Montclair

it would be on over-the-air channel 51.5 - remapped on sets as channel 50.5.


Hope this helps.


Gary


----------



## shlin

There's not much worth watching on NJN HD. It's the same content, seven days in a row. Watch one time a week is enough.


----------



## IceMan5043

Good, because for some reason today I can't pick it up anymore. My signal strengths can change over 10% in a day without my moving the antenna at all. I guess stuff like humidity and temperature really CAN make a difference, because the only difference between yesterday and today is that it was HOT today!


----------



## tld

Is anyone aware of a change of some sort with analog PBS 13? I'm in central NJ, and all of a sudden I have to point my antenna almost due north to get it in worth anything, and previously I picked it up pointing northeast or even towards the east, as with all the other NY analog stations. As a matter of fact, it used to come in perfectly faced that way. None of my other reception has changed.


My concern is that this will screw up the TVGOS on my HD DVR (Sony DHG-HDD500) eventually.


Tom


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else having dropouts on NBC-DT OTA?? The wife just summoned me to show me that 4-1 was pixelating on one of my setups....and then when I tuned into the OTHER HDTIVO which is hooked up to a different rooftop antenna, that one showed "Searching for Signal" on 4-1.


WTF ?!?!?


----------



## zielin

I got my Lacrosse today and had very big hopes for it. I live in Dumbo, brooklyn, 3 blocks from the east river - From my deck there is one building blocking my direct view to the ESB. My hope was that, from the deck, I could get the HD lub lub









Sadly, no. It was no better than user my silver sensor, or even a random FM antenna that comes with ones receiver (0-10% for CBS). So, no magic










I finally just put it on the roof - which i didn't want to. But I don't think testing here will be very useful to most as i can see the ESB from there (see pix).

something - odd.. is that even up there, i wasn't getting the best sig still i turned on the power to the amp. *shrug*


I'm using my HD10-250 HD tivo (i also have a sony HD100, dish6000, hipix, and some other random HD reviecers if ppl want me to test on any of them.


I just tested with the channels the HD10-250 *thinks* i should get (it doesn't scan -i think it would be worth me having one of the receivers that can scan to see what it sees)

i'm getting 2-*, 4-*,5-*,7-*(UPN9 is listed as 5-1), 11 WB, PBS 13, (no 21 or 25 (25 is odd as it is coming from 3-4 blocks away (i think) but the Lacrosse back is facing it)) , 31-*, (no 41-*, 48,49, (spanish stuff), 50 (WNJN), 54, 55, 58, 63,66,67) 68 -strong sig but it doesn't look like they have anything on.


If anyone wants me to test a channel or report sig strength ask


----------



## Roger Lococco

do you think it's good enought to keep,or will you be getting a refund?


----------



## ykavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else having dropouts on NBC-DT OTA?? The wife just summoned me to show me that 4-1 was pixelating on one of my setups....and then when I tuned into the OTHER HDTIVO which is hooked up to a different rooftop antenna, that one showed "Searching for Signal" on 4-1.
> 
> 
> WTF ?!?!?



Last night there was significant tropospheric ducting going on. 4-1 had pixelation and 31 was replaced by another NBC station I believe from Connecticut. I usually could not get 57 (55-1) because of my distance but got it last night. I noticed the ducting usually happens the night before the weather is changing, in this case from dry sunny days to the downpour tonight.


----------



## MLM

Last night's PBS opera gala was a major disappointment. The sound was quite poor and out of sync (late) with the picture.


For an example of great sound on PBS hi def, try the Ramsey Lewis jazz series. It's currently on NJ public TV.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MLM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night's PBS opera gala was a major disappointment. The sound was quite poor and out of sync (late) with the picture.
> 
> 
> For an example of great sound on PBS hi def, try the Ramsey Lewis jazz series. It's currently on NJ public TV.



I get my 13 HD from cable and I also notice an undue amount of times when the sound is not synced well.


----------



## zielin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> do you think it's good enought to keep,or will you be getting a refund?




i'll keep it. It is much more suited to be outside than my SS. But, I'm getting the results i'd expect from any antenna with a direct line of site to the ESB. (it can't be more and a few miles away - even on a really cloudy day i can still see the building clearly)


----------



## icemannyr

Is work being done on the transmitter tonight? I get no signal OTA and nothing via Cablevision from WCBS-DT.


----------



## Roger Lococco

all the OTA channels seemed to go off around 12:35,happens a bit overnight,I guess they work on the transmitters sometimes.haven't been able to receive a steady signal on CBS-DT for weeks now.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> all the OTA channels seemed to go off around 12:35,happens a bit overnight,I guess they work on the transmitters sometimes.haven't been able to receive a steady signal on CBS-DT for weeks now.



Interestingly, for a few days last week I kept trying to TIVO a show off of 13-1 OTA...and every night I'd check the damn "to do list" and see that the show didn't record because there was "no signal" on 13-1. Everytime I tried to record it it was a 2:30 am (or somewhere in that range) showing....and I know I always get a signal during the day/night...but I'm never "awake" to check the overnight signal/picture/availability.


----------



## icemannyr

I'll have to check my Cable feed tonight to see if the other broadcast channels go off if WCBS-DT goes off again.

For some reason when WCBS-DT is not transmitting from Empire we get no feed via Cablevision but we still get the other broadcast channels.


----------



## icemannyr

WNYW-DT is broadcasting in 480i and the WWOR-DT sub channel is off


----------



## shlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNYW-DT is broadcasting in 480i and the WWOR-DT sub channel is off



I think they got a problem. There's no EPG either.


----------



## icemannyr

I knew something was wrong when the local ads and the 10pm News did not have the blurry edge enhanced video look.

I wonder if FOX5 knows how bad their 720p upconvert of Ch5 looks?


Even with the video resolution of 480i at 480x480 the video looks cleaner the the usual 720p upconvert.


----------



## Scoutdog

I am in Northwest N.J. and having choppy video on HD channels . Examples would be last night's hockey game on NBC HD and the baseball game on YES HD with the Yankees and Cleveland .

Can anyone give me some insight as to why this is happening and if you experienced the same thing . It is almost like there are frames being dropped during the broadcast.

Thanks

Bob


----------



## ykavs

Last night, I noticed two sub channels 25-2 and 25-3 from WNYE. 25-2 was showing city driving guide and 25-3 had a color check screen on.


----------



## Roger Lococco

from checking out WNYE 25-1(it used to be on 24-1),they seemed to have fixed their unstable frame rate problem,the video used to speed up and slow down in a very annoying way.


----------



## CaptainBadAss

I live in Astoria, Queens, and have an antenna on the roof of my 4-story apt. bldg. It has good line of sight of the ESB.

I'd been getting good reception of all of the NYC HD stations (NJN is a no-go).

But a couple of weeks ago, I've started getting crummy reception of channel 13 (no signal) and channel 2 (very low). All of the other stations have had lower-than-normal signal strength, as well.

I ran a new cable to the roof, and repointed the antenna, but no improvement. I finally connected the antenna to a signal amplifier.....and voila, I'm back in business. WNET's signal strength peaks at about 48%, though.


EDIT: BTW, I use the Hughes HTL-HD DirecTV box.


My question is: Has something happened recently to bring the signal strength down?


Thanks!

CBA


----------



## LL3HD

I see that FOX 5 and WABC advertise their HD helicopters. Are these or any of the local newscasts broadcast OTA in HD?

TIA


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LL3HD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I see that FOX 5 and WABC advertise their HD helicopters. Are these or any of the local newscasts broadcast OTA in HD?
> 
> TIA



What...are you kidding? Actually the broadcast is in HD but it's not fullscreen, so I'd say no. Others may argue otherwise.


----------



## ghostman

All the local newscasts are broadcast as standard definition up-rezzed to an HD pillar box. WABC and WNYW then cut to the HD wide screen helicopter shots. These are normally highly scripted because the control rooms that handle the news broadcast can't handle the HD signal and the switch actually happens in Master Control.


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghostman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All the local newscasts are broadcast as standard definition up-rezzed to an HD pillar box. WABC and WNYW then cut to the HD wide screen helicopter shots. These are normally highly scripted because the control rooms that handle the news broadcast can't handle the HD signal and the switch actually happens in Master Control.



Thanks for the reply ghostman. I don't have OTA capabilities with my set up. I receive my signal via Time Warner Cable NYC. *No* part of our local newscasts, on TWC, are in HD.


----------



## HDugan

I'm in the Hackettstown/Allamuchy NJ area...Warren County NJ.


Years ago I beat the odds my getting ALL analog locals from NYC and Philadephia with a HUGE Channel Master antenna with a pre-AMP. and rotar even though antenna web said no.


Question: Aside from terrrain difficulty, can I get the like HDTV signals?????


Again antenna web says "NO"...I don't trust antenna web for fringe areas.


I cant finge any Rice-Longely HDTV signal maps showing pocket reception areas...can anyone help?


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else seeing guide data on their OTA receivers for 25-1 and 25-2? I can't seem to acquire a usable signal out here in NJ.


25-2 says "Traffic Cameras" on my onscreen guide...anyone seeing anything?


----------



## Dm84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else seeing guide data on their OTA receivers for 25-1 and 25-2? I can't seem to acquire a usable signal out here in NJ.
> 
> 
> 25-2 says "Traffic Cameras" on my onscreen guide...anyone seeing anything?



25 should be WNYE, which is owned by the New York City Government. I wouldn't count on seeing any HD content on that channel for the next several years, if ever.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dm84* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 25 should be WNYE, which is owned by the New York City Government. I wouldn't count on seeing any HD content on that channel for the next several years, if ever.




With all due respect, you are being very, very, very kind!


----------



## netman

I can't get channel 24 (the physical channel for 25) where I am. It is a very low power transmitter as I remember. They are listed as carrying "City Drive Live" which sounds like traffic cams to me. As the others pointed out, this is the most I would expect this broadcaster to do with their digital transmitter for some time (carry multiple SD programs).


----------



## Perfectionist2

Help, please.


I've been reading this thread for weeks and can't find what I need so any help would be appreciated.


Can someone tell me whether or not I can expect to get good OTA reception for HD in the Village (near NYU) with a set top antenna? Or should I just get cable?


Any specific antenna suggestions?


Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

You'll never know until you experiment.


I've been using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.


Reception varies, this antenna is small and does pretty well.


You must "walk" in around your room to find the sweet spots for various channels.


Good Luck!


----------



## Perfectionist2

Thanks.


----------



## hxmiller




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDugan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in the Hackettstown/Allamuchy NJ area...Warren County NJ.
> 
> 
> Years ago I beat the odds my getting ALL analog locals from NYC and Philadephia with a HUGE Channel Master antenna with a pre-AMP. and rotar even though antenna web said no.
> 
> 
> Question: Aside from terrrain difficulty, can I get the like HDTV signals?????
> 
> 
> Again antenna web says "NO"...I don't trust antenna web for fringe areas.
> 
> 
> I cant finge any Rice-Longely HDTV signal maps showing pocket reception areas...can anyone help?



Do you have a UHF antenna and pre-amp? I'm in Rockaway and I can get all the NY HD locals with a CM antenna in my attic.


----------



## Lynch1j2

I'm in Jefferson. Can either of you get ch 9.


----------



## hxmiller




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lynch1j2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Jefferson. Can either of you get ch 9.



Yes. I can get all the locals over the air (2,4,5,7,9,11,13)


There are others I get as well such as Telemundo etc.


----------



## Lynch1j2

Great. What model CM and pre-amp.


----------



## hxmiller




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lynch1j2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great. What model CM and pre-amp.




Channel Master model 4228 UFH 8 Bay antenna and CM 7775 pre-amp.


----------



## Lynch1j2

Great thanks.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else seeing guide data on their OTA receivers for 25-1 and 25-2? I can't seem to acquire a usable signal out here in NJ.
> 
> 
> 25-2 says "Traffic Cameras" on my onscreen guide...anyone seeing anything?



You can get WNYE in NJ?


I'm north of the GWB and can't get any signal using the Radio Shack Indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna with RF Remote Control.


I can tune in most other NYC stations except for WNET-DT and WPXN-DT.


----------



## hxmiller




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can get WNYE in NJ?
> 
> 
> I'm north of the GWB and can't get any signal using the Radio Shack Indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna with RF Remote Control.
> 
> 
> I can tune in most other NYC stations except for WNET-DT and WPXN-DT.



Not too well. I can get a lock but I suspect it's broadcast from a different site. High bandwidth streams have many errors. The lower bandwidth streams seem ok.


----------



## SnellKrell

The vagueries of digital, UHF reception can include channel allocation, power and transmitter location.


Concerning some of the stations mentioned:


WNYE-DT - Channel 24 - 7.67kW - Brooklyn


WPXN-DT - Channel 30 - 100kW - Empire State Building


WNET-DT - Channel 61 -12.4kW - Empire State Building


Hope this helps.


Gary


----------



## rcodey

NY tv market is ranked No.1.Number of stations broadcasting the news in HD-Zero.Numerous smaller markets are able to do it but not NY, and now in nearby Philadelphia the ABC station(WPVI) started news in HD.

Shouldn't NY lead not follow?


----------



## Dm84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcodey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NY tv market is ranked No.1.Number of stations broadcasting the news in HD-Zero.Numerous smaller markets are able to do it but not NY, and now in nearby Philadelphia the ABC station(WPVI) started news in HD.
> 
> Shouldn't NY lead not follow?



Just about all the commercial stations in NYC are O&O, which means our local stations don't get to make these decisions on their own.


----------



## SnellKrell

But so is WPVI. It's owned by ABC/Disney.


So being an O&O is not the reason. No local station makes its own decisions. Rarely, if ever, will you find a truly locally owned television station in a major market. They have corporate owners who control the purse strings; and going HD for locally produced programming, especially news, is very expensive.


----------



## rcodey

O&O-KABC-CH7 Los Angeles has been in HD since earlier this year.Yes,it is very expensive but if they can do it in LA,Seattle,Orlando,Raleigh,Philadelphia to name a few, they can do it in NY.


----------



## Dm84




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcodey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> O&O-KABC-CH7 Los Angeles has been in HD since earlier this year.Yes,it is very expensive but if they can do it in LA,Seattle,Orlando,Raleigh,Philadelphia to name a few, they can do it in NY.



Philly has a half-assed implementation. Only the studio shots and chopper are in HD. All the field reports are SD.


I would rather not have HD in NY unless the entire newscast is in HD. If that means waiting a few more months for a full HD newscast, then so be it.


----------



## boschg

Seems that WNET-DT (13.1, 13.2, 13.3) has a problem this morning? Anybody know if some maintenance is going on or if something else changed?


----------



## icemannyr

I get a strong signal but no video or audio from NJN's Montclair, NJ digital channel 51.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can get WNYE in NJ?
> 
> 
> I'm north of the GWB and can't get any signal using the Radio Shack Indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna with RF Remote Control.
> 
> 
> I can tune in most other NYC stations except for WNET-DT and WPXN-DT.



I finally tuned past this channel last night and did receive programming on 25-1 and 25-2 last night. 25-1 was basically the analog 25 programming and 25-2 was the Traffic Cam channel. I wasn't expecting anything more than this...but the "City Drive Live" format on 25-2 was quite annoying as far as all the talking going on and scrolling information and what not. Almost like viewing a webpage loaded with info or watching one of the digital news/weather channels (i.e. 4-2 or 7-2). I guess I was just hoping to see some cycling between traffic cams...but there was infomercial type programming in there as well (about NYC stuff).


But, yes, out in Central NJ I did pick up this digital station last night. Hadn't checked the channel in a few days (probably since I originally posted about the channel).


----------



## mikeny

What's going on with FOX? No signal at all since late last night.


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's going on with FOX? No signal at all since late last night.



Con Ed brown-out power issues at Empire. Back on now with generator power.


----------



## jthienel

Looking for reception reports on DTV channel 18, broadcasting from Monclair NJ.

Analog channel is 63 which is at a different site than the DTV.


----------



## tryin2search

I'm watching FOX's broadcast of "Bringing Down the House" and the signal is overall good but has been a little intermittent. I figured the lack of signal yesterday was due to power issues. Today maybe theyr'e still straightening out any problems, FOX is usually the most reliable signal.


----------



## hxmiller

Are there any issues with the channel 9 signal (UHF 38)? Some of my tuners are not able to lock the signal. Specifically my HR10-250. Signal strength is 90%. My Sony TV can tune the signal.


The raw stream appears to only have the PID information but nothing else.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Is UPN 9 broadcasting? I haven't been able to pick up a signal on either of the WWOR digital channels (9-1, 9-2) for two or three days.


----------



## beatles6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoldenBoy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is UPN 9 broadcasting? I haven't been able to pick up a signal on either of the WWOR digital channels (9-1, 9-2) for two or three days.



I am getting a clear signal here in Staten Island. Not sure it matters though with their sorry ass HD programming. You would think they could at least broadcast the few Yankee home games they have in HD since the games they air are produced by YES.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beatles6* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am getting a clear signal here in Staten Island



I just did a scan for OTA channels with my HR10-250, and it seems 9, for whatever reason, is coming through on 38-3 and 38-4, but it's black on 9-1 and 9-2. I wonder if it's a problem with the channel mapping on the HR10-250?



> Quote:
> . Not sure it matters though with their sorry ass HD programming. You would think they could at least broadcast the few Yankee home games they have in HD since the games they air are produced by YES.



I couldn't agree more. It pisses me off that they don't bring the Yankees games in HD. What's the point of that? What makes matters even worse for me is that DirecTV only carries some of the Yankees games in HD. I realise that it is mainly the home games that come in HD and a few of the road games, but there have been so many Yankees home games that YES show as 'Available in HD' that, for whatever reason DirecTV didn't carry. Argh! Anyhow, that's a topic for another thread.


----------



## mrsat1

Mon 8-7-2006


Hello to all....just to wanted to advise you on certain issues with WNJN- Dtv 51. First I am receving dtv signals via cm 3016 antenna connected to an aska 25 db amplifier (long cable

run, connecting 3 tv sets. Using samsung HLS 56" hd set. I have been noticing the past

couple of weeks off and on that WNJN "removes" the psip (protocol signal information packet) which disables the dtv tuner (either external or internal receiver) from receiving any audio or video. You will still see a good signal strength (here in seaford, long island i usually get around 83-88 via directv hr10-250 tivo. When the psip is inserted like today monday, you can view 50-1...50-3 and 50-4 (hd at night 50-5 8p-12a). They have been removing the psip data periodically during the past 2 weeks.



Also upn 9 change their channel map assignments to 38-1 & 38-2 (upn 9 & fox 5)......why

why do they always change these channel maps? also you can now view WMBC from newton, new jersey via uhf ch. 18 or channel mapped to 63-1....informercials...ethnic programming....receiving signal strength aroud 85 solid....good lock, no breakup....see ya...rolou21.


----------



## mrsat1

For the record.....I identified PSIP incorectly....it should be "Protocol Service Information Packet...I originally said "S" for signal which was wrong.......rolou21.


----------



## POWERFUL

I posted this in the YES forum on the HDTV Programming side, maybe someone here would get through. Looks like a call to the My 9 station or programming manger is in order for us folks who want OTA HD coverage for our Yankees. The phone number is 212-452-3930. Hope this helps.


----------



## GoldenBoy

So what can be done about the improper channel mapping for UPN 9 on my HR10-250? Is this something that DirecTV will have to fix? I can watch it if I go to 38-3, but there's no guide/programming information there. All of that is still at 9-1 and 9-2, which are black.


----------



## mrsat1

Goldenboy.....it is not a directv problem because i also have a samsung t451 dtv receiver and it also shows upn-9 on 38-1/fox 5 on 38-2. it is just the way upn 9 channel maps their

channel assignment. i agree leave it like everyone else...9-1..9-2...rolou21


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrsat1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Goldenboy.....it is not a directv problem because i also have a samsung t451 dtv receiver and it also shows upn-9 on 38-1/fox 5 on 38-2. it is just the way upn 9 channel maps their
> 
> channel assignment. i agree leave it like everyone else...9-1..9-2...rolou21



I understand, but what about the guide/program information for 9? It's blank on 38-3/38-4, so how would that be fixed? Like I said before, the information shows up at 9-1/9-2, but it's useless there as the channels are black.


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoldenBoy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand, but what about the guide/program information for 9? It's blank on 38-3/38-4, so how would that be fixed? Like I said before, the information shows up at 9-1/9-2, but it's useless there as the channels are black.



Sorry for the problem! Fixed now.


dtv4u


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I posted this in the YES forum on the HDTV Programming side, maybe someone here would get through. Looks like a call to the My 9 station or programming manger is in order for us folks who want OTA HD coverage for our Yankees. The phone number is 212-452-3930. Hope this helps.



thanks for the number. I'll call them.


What is the plan for the CW Network with regards to HD baseball? Are they still going to broadcast the Mets at home in HD and SD for all the Yankee games?


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is the plan for the CW Network with regards to HD baseball? Are they still going to broadcast the Mets at home in HD and SD for all the Yankee games?



Those are not on UPN, WB, or the future CW network. They are NYC local games and I imagine channel 9 will still do the Yankees in SD and WPIX will still do the Mets in HD.


----------



## mikeny

Oh. Are there still going to be 2 channels then; or 1 channel with 2 sources? I'm thinking in terms of a network going to their local affiliates. If that's the case the 2 teams would never be on at the same time, obviously.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh. Are there still going to be 2 channels then; or 1 channel with 2 sources? I'm thinking in terms of a network going to their local affiliates. If that's the case the 2 teams would never be on at the same time, obviously.



Channel 11 will be a CW affiliate. Channel 9 will be an affiliate of the new "My Network". The baseball games have nothing to do with the networks. The local station (9 or 11) independently broadcast the games for the New York market only.


----------



## 65T500

What OTA channel can I find WNBC-HD on?


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC-DT transmits on UHF channel 28.


Sets re-map this allocation to channel 4.1.


Gary


----------



## tomjj

Speaking of WNBC, does anyone know the relative power of WNBC vs the other majors transmitting from the combiner? Funny thing is that since the combiner has been operational i haven't seen a change out here in northwest NJ - i get ABC & CBS OK but WNBC is still way too low to pull in...


Thanks

Tom


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bogney Baux* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Channel 11 will be a CW affiliate. Channel 9 will be an affiliate of the new "My Network". The baseball games have nothing to do with the networks. The local station (9 or 11) independently broadcast the games for the New York market only.



Thanks for the info.


----------



## shlin

WNBC's power is the lowest among majors.


----------



## POWERFUL

What amp besides a CM7777 would someone recommend to pull it in?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNBC's power is the lowest among majors.



Please take into consideration that its channel allocation "is the lowest among the majors."



It's all relative!


----------



## harican




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jthienel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looking for reception reports on DTV channel 18, broadcasting from Monclair NJ.
> 
> Analog channel is 63 which is at a different site than the DTV.



Yeah, I am receiving the signal in the Bronx, NYC. Signal strength is a low 30, but there is no pixelation.


Programming appears to be just infomercials, how about adding a sub channel and putting on some interesting content.


----------



## jthienel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harican* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I am receiving the signal in the Bronx, NYC. Signal strength is a low 30, but there is no pixelation.
> 
> 
> Programming appears to be just infomercials, how about adding a sub channel and putting on some interesting content.



There are 3 additional sub channels to be added in a couple of weeks. The control center for them is close to completion. Content is yet to be anounced, stay tuned. Most likely ethnic type programming.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Please take into consideration that its channel allocation "is the lowest among the majors."
> 
> 
> 
> It's all relative!



It's been my experience that NBC has the poorest reception of all the major NY locals with the exception of PBS (61).


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, I live in the canyons of the upper Eastside of Manhattan, using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna, on the floor, some eight feet from a window, and WNBC-DT, consistently is the strongest, and therefore, the steadiest station I receive. Channel 61, also for me, is almost impossible to receive. It has the highest channel allocation and a pittance of power. Can't wait until it moves its digital signal to 13 when the analogue channel is turned off.


Go figure!


There are so many anomalies with digital UHF reception.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I live in the canyons of the upper Eastside of Manhattan, using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna, on the floor, some eight feet from a window, and WNBC-DT, consistently is the strongest, and therefore, the steadiest station I receive. Channel 61, also for me, is almost impossible to receive. It has the highest channel allocation and a pittance of power. Can't wait until it moves its digital signal to 13 when the analogue channel is turned off.
> 
> 
> Go figure!
> 
> 
> There are so many anomalies with digital UHF reception.



I live in Maspeth, Queens with a clear line of sight to the ESB from my house, and the worst channel for me, besides WNET-DT, is WPIX (WB/CW). I get a lot of breaking up on that channel. NBC hardly gives me any trouble.


As for WNET-DT, all I need is a little rain to send it crazy. Even when the weather is perfect, I get relatively frequent drop-outs.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally tuned past this channel last night and did receive programming on 25-1 and 25-2 last night. 25-1 was basically the analog 25 programming and 25-2 was the Traffic Cam channel. I wasn't expecting anything more than this...but the "City Drive Live" format on 25-2 was quite annoying as far as all the talking going on and scrolling information and what not. Almost like viewing a webpage loaded with info or watching one of the digital news/weather channels (i.e. 4-2 or 7-2). I guess I was just hoping to see some cycling between traffic cams...but there was infomercial type programming in there as well (about NYC stuff).
> 
> 
> But, yes, out in Central NJ I did pick up this digital station last night. Hadn't checked the channel in a few days (probably since I originally posted about the channel).



I was picking this up the other day here in central Nassau, but now I'm not getting a peep. Is the station still broadcasting?


----------



## icemannyr

I heard that NJN has been doing long term work on their Montclair, NJ transmitter causing the antenna to run at low or no power.


Cablevision switched to the feed from WNJB on the weekend.


Tonight I get no signal from Ch51 digital but Ch50 analog is on and I believe both come from the Montclair, NJ transmitter.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I live in the canyons of the upper Eastside of Manhattan, using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna, on the floor, some eight feet from a window, and WNBC-DT, consistently is the strongest, and therefore, the steadiest station I receive. Channel 61, also for me, is almost impossible to receive. It has the highest channel allocation and a pittance of power. Can't wait until it moves its digital signal to 13 when the analogue channel is turned off.
> 
> 
> Go figure!
> 
> 
> There are so many anomalies with digital UHF reception.



I'm in Northern, NJ and WNET-DT and WNBC-DT are the hardest for me to tune in.


----------



## ykavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harican* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I am receiving the signal in the Bronx, NYC. Signal strength is a low 30, but there is no pixelation.
> 
> 
> Programming appears to be just infomercials, how about adding a sub channel and putting on some interesting content.



I can receive it on channal 18 clearly down in Jersey shore. However, my tuner (Samsung SIR-165) could not remember neither channel 18 nor channel 63-1. I need to manually select channel 18 or 63 every time. The tuner usually can remember the digital channels so I can use channel up and down to surf. Not in this case.


----------



## Roger Lococco

the Silver Sensor I picked up last week at the Rego Park CC for 25 bucks is working very well,although I still can't get the digital 13 or 21,the other stations have a very strong and stable signal.


----------



## netman

You are not missing much with 21 since they have no HD content.


----------



## adm

Loss of stations - Within the NYC NBC Channel 4 grouping, this morning my plasma is only recognizing the SD channel (4) as available or listed. Up until last night I was able to receive 4-1 (NBC HD), 4-2 (NBC weather now), 4-3 (NBC ??), 4-4 (NBC replays of various news, meet the press and other shows).


The plasma skipped over them and did not bring them to the screen. Then when I check my channel listings for adding/editing channels, these do not even appear as available or not.


I was getting them via a direct cable line into the plasma without a STB. I live in the Pt Jeff (Long Island) area with Cablevision as the souce of the signal


Anyone else experience something like this?


----------



## gpg

I'm still getting 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4 through Cablevision without a STB. I don't think I ever got 4.3.


----------



## SnellKrell

4.3 hasn't been used.


----------



## petp13

just got a new tv and bought a RCA antenna this weekend from bestbuy. NBC rocks! even though the signal is around 53/100 its crystal clear with no pixelation. beach volleyball looked amazing! CBS is iffy, it has the same 53/100 but was getting some pixelation during saturdays football. didnt get any of the abc HD stuff though, or ch. 13 either.

will be bringing back the antenna and looking to pick up the silver sensor.


----------



## icemannyr

For WNBC-DT I get 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4 via OTA and QAM tuner connected to Cablevision.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gpg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm still getting 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4 through Cablevision without a STB. I don't think I ever got 4.3.




Thanks gpg, Gary Press, Icemannyr. Yes, 4.3 was a mix up on my part. I just mentally thought it was the next station inbetween 4.2 (weather) and 4.4 (repeat shows). I never received, it nor was it listed, nor available.


I found out what the problem was: While the stations (4.1 4.2 4.4) did NOT play when I moved the channel button through them, they were listed when I did a channel search to "Add/Change" channels. Even though it was listed as available & on, it would not work until I manually deleted and readded those particular channels. Those stations are now back in the memory of the plasma as added. Not sure why or how that happened to cause the problem in the first place.


Strange thing is that the HD station for ABC (7.1) disappeared from the available stations at the same time. However, 7.1 seemed to have been dropped completely from listing/availability for the past two days.


----------



## tryin2search

I was just wondering about channel 9/ WWOR. Currently their HD content is not available through Cablevision, only SD, in Westchester. If I want to watch it in HD I select the antenna as the input option on my tv. Is Channel 9 HD programming only available OTA or is it just Cablevision that does not carry them.


----------



## Stoney Jackson

For some reason Cablevision does not carry channel 9 in HD


----------



## hdtvjunkie247




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stoney Jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For some reason Cablevision does not carry channel 9 in HD



Comcast and Time Warner also don't carry WWOR-HD.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtvjunkie247* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Comcast and Time Warner also don't carry WWOR-HD.



I guess we have our reason why they don't transmit the Yankees games in HD via any source. That or it might have something to do with FOX and the cable companies not coming to some sort of agreement.


BTW, do most of the people here have OTA and cable/satellite, or are they just strict OTA. I've got both here in Westchester, and only OTA in Fairfield County.


----------



## mikeyd1276

Okay, here's my problem. I just moved to Mt Holly, NJ (from Edison) and I'm a huge Giants fan. However I'm in Eagles Nation. Comcast here does not offer NYC channels at all. I'm about 75 miles from the Empire St Bldg. If I install an antenna on my roof do I have a realistic shot of picking up Fox broadcasts of the Giants?


----------



## theotherwayne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Loss of stations - Within the NYC NBC Channel 4 grouping, this morning my plasma is only recognizing the SD channel (4) as available or listed. Up until last night I was able to receive 4-1 (NBC HD), 4-2 (NBC weather now), 4-3 (NBC ??), 4-4 (NBC replays of various news, meet the press and other shows).
> 
> (snip)
> 
> Anyone else experience something like this?



Yep. Haven't had NBC via the STB for a few weeks now. I suspect the signal output is lower now, and it's always been iffy reception. Seemed to be weather related.


All others in NY are OK.


Wayne


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theotherwayne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep. Haven't had NBC via the STB for a few weeks now. I suspect the signal output is lower now, and it's always been iffy reception. Seemed to be weather related.
> 
> 
> All others in NY are OK.
> 
> 
> Wayne



Thanks Wayne. However, since that original posting I have been able to receive the additional NBC group. I am NOT using an STB, instead I am directly connected. By doing a manual scan of the channels recently, i was able to have those stations back on and working.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeyd1276* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay, here's my problem. I just moved to Mt Holly, NJ (from Edison) and I'm a huge Giants fan. However I'm in Eagles Nation. Comcast here does not offer NYC channels at all. I'm about 75 miles from the Empire St Bldg. If I install an antenna on my roof do I have a realistic shot of picking up Fox broadcasts of the Giants?



This might help you figure it out. This is the link to the coverage map for FOX 5 Digital coverage area. FCC map of FOX 5 broadcast area


----------



## SnellKrell

Sorry, that map is terribly outdated.


When WNYW-DT increased its power to 990kW, the station had to adopt a directional pattern for its signal to avoid interference with WMCN-DT, also transmitting on Channel 44, from Atlantic City, NJ.


----------



## RemyM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeyd1276* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay, here's my problem. I just moved to Mt Holly, NJ (from Edison) and I'm a huge Giants fan. However I'm in Eagles Nation. Comcast here does not offer NYC channels at all. I'm about 75 miles from the Empire St Bldg. If I install an antenna on my roof do I have a realistic shot of picking up Fox broadcasts of the Giants?


 http://www.checkhd.com/aw/welcome.aspx


----------



## tryin2search

 990kW Fox 5 service map 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry, that map is terribly outdated.
> 
> 
> When WNYW-DT increased its power to 990kW, the station had to adopt a directional pattern for its signal to avoid interference with WMCN-DT, also transmitting on Channel 44, from Atlantic City, NJ.



Here's the one with the 990kW output. It's not clear from looking at the FCC site which is the current number, since it lists the 990kW as a modification to a construction permit.

WNYW FOX 5 coverage area


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's been my experience that NBC has the poorest reception of all the major NY locals with the exception of PBS (61).



I live out in central Suffolk and just decided to try OTA HDTV as a science experiment, probably due to ATI dumping their ATI HDTV Wonder cards for $70, after rebates.


Anyway, i bought a stopgap RadioShack antenna today, putzed around and now can receive ABC, CBS, FOX, WLIW, etc. but no WNBC.


I played around with the antennaweb.org estimator and it reports that I can get WNBC-Dt in Uniondale but not Dix Hills (I used 2 previous addresses).


This ties into into other comments I've googled.


Can somebody please explain what the current state of WNBC-DT is?


Thanks!


----------



## pkieper

Has anyone tried the Radio Shack 15-1892 antenna? I've read some good reviews, but haven't seen any from the NYC area. I'm in Brooklyn Heights on the first floor of a 5-story brownstone. If anyone has tried this antenna, I'd be very interested in hearing about your results, especially compared with other models you've tried (Terk, Silver Sensor, etc.).


Thanks!


----------



## Roger Lococco

here in Jamaica Queens,the 15-1892 didn't work at all,I actually got better results from a cheap bowtie antenna.

the terk hdtva was a piece of junk,couldn't even pick up one station!

all the various amplified rabbit ears with the uhf loop performed poorly as well.

the Silver Sensor is working VERY well,all stations come in with a strong and stable signal,unable to receive 13 and 21.


----------



## JSWbBk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the terk hdtva was a piece of junk,couldn't even pick up one station!



In E Williamsburg, Bklyn on 1st flr of 5-story apt house the Terk HDTVi (unamplified version of HDTVa) works just great when pointed at a "sweet spot" in the corner of a room next to south-facing windows. It's pointing SW and the ESB is NW, so I guess I am getting a multi-path signal bouncing off another building.


BTW, has anyone else noticed a crazed, rogue "pixel" near the top center of the screen on WWOR-DT 9 (OTA)? It's been there for a few days. My HDTV is a CRT, so it's not my machine, plus it's only on that one channel.


----------



## fredfa

TV Notebook
WNBC Goes HD

By Allison Romano *Broadcasting & Cable* 9/6/2006 9


NBC Universal-owned WNBC New York is set to become the first station in the country's top TV market to switch its local news to high-definition.


On Sept. 13, WNBC will begin producing 28 hours per week of news and local programs in HD, including its daily newscasts, movie review show Reel Talk and sports shows Mike'd Up and Gameday New York. So far, WNBC's studio cameras and helicopter camera have been switched to high-definition and the station says it will transition field cameras in the coming months.


WNBC is among only about a dozen stations nationwide that have converted to local HD production. Recently, ABC-owned WPVI Philadelphia went HD, making it the first station in the No. 4 maket broadcasting local news in high-def. Other NBC O&Os are expected to soon follow WNBC's path to HD.


"From our daily newscasts to breaking news to our commitment to the community, WNBC is evolving its unmatched local news coverage," WNBC's Senior VP, News, and Station Manager Dan Forman said in a statement. "Our foray into HD further enables WNBC to maintain its mission of covering the tri-state area like no one else."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/ind...leID=CA6369114


----------



## 30rock

Here's the press release that was issued by WNBC today:



PRESS RELEASE


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


WNBC TO BEGIN BROADCASTING NEWS AND

LOCAL PROGRAMMING IN HI-DEFINITION


First Local New York Station To Broadcast High-Definition Newscasts, Sept. 13


New York, NYSeptember 6, 2006WNBC, NBC Universal's flagship station, will begin broadcasting 28 hours of newscasts and locally produced programming in high-definition (HD) beginning September 13, it was announced today by Frank Comerford, President and General Manager, WNBC.


"Since its first broadcast more than 65 years ago, WNBC has consistently led the way in delivering the most comprehensive news coverage and informative local programming from a dedicated team of on-air and behind-the-scenes professionals," said Comerford. "Being the first in New York to broadcast in high-definition marks a new era for the station; providing our team with the capabilities to best serve the needs of our viewers who will experience television that is richer than ever before."


WNBC's 28 hours of HD broadcasts will include regularly scheduled weekday and weekend morning and evening newscasts, as well as the locally produced studio programs "Reel Talk" (Saturdays 10-10:30 a.m.), "NewsForum" (Sundays 6:30-7 a.m.) and "Mike'd Up (Sundays, 11:35 a.m.-12:05 a.m.). In addition, breaking news, studio-based specials and seasonal programming, such as "Gameday New York"a weekly half-hour pre-game football show hosted by WNBC's Bruce Beck and New York Giants head coach Tom Coughlin (Sundays 8:30-9 a.m., Sept. 10 throughout the NFL season)will air in HD. Coupled with the network, 72 total hours of HDTV a week will be broadcast on Channel 4.


WNBC's new, state-of-the-art HD facility boasts a newly completed control room which includes an HD switcher and audio console, a virtual monitor wallcomprised of ten screens which can display one to 130 different video feeds simultaneouslyand also has the capability to control any studio located at 30 Rockefeller Center and vice versa. WNBC's studio, known as 6B, houses five robotically controlled SONY HD cameras and, the station's chopper camera is HD, and in the coming months, the station will be transitioning all field cameras to a wide-screen format.


The HD project was overseen by Comerford; Dan Forman, Senior Vice President News and Station Manager, WNBC; Matthew Braatz, Regional Vice President Technology, NBC TV Stations; Ken Wilkey, Senior Vice President, TV Stations Technology and Kathy Mosolino, Director of Operations, WNBC.


"From our daily newscasts to breaking news to our commitment to the community, WNBC is evolving its unmatched local news coverage," said Forman. "Our foray into HD further enables WNBC to maintain its mission of covering the tri-state area like no one else."


"Bolstering what viewers have come to expect from WNBC has been the driving force behind the transition to HD," said Braatz. "The ability for me and my hard-working team to be pioneers in delivering high-definition television to the New York marketplace will ultimately be a rewarding television experience for us all."


"HD provides the highest quality picture and sound affording more audience enthusiasm than traditional television," said Wilkey. "With its already established lead in the marketplace for delivering the best coverage of local news and events, WNBC has now notched the lead in delivering the best in technology to its viewers."


# # #


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *30rock* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's the press release that was issued by WNBC today:
> 
> 
> 
> PRESS RELEASE
> 
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> 
> 
> WNBC TO BEGIN BROADCASTING NEWS AND
> 
> LOCAL PROGRAMMING IN HI-DEFINITION
> 
> 
> First Local New York Station To Broadcast High-Definition Newscasts, Sept. 13



Nice! I'm all tingly! I was hoping that this would happen around the same time that the Today show went live. Glad to see it is.


The wife always watched Ch4 news as it is/was....guess I'll be a viewer now as well


----------



## SnellKrell

Ah, but now Rob Morrison will have to shave in the morning!


----------



## Infominister

Now, if only they would increase power. Up where I am in northern Westchester, I can usually get 2-1, 5-1 and 7-1, but never 4-1. This would seem to be a good time to increase power. Don't know why they haven't yet.


----------



## 30rock

FCC limitation. Any more power and interference would be created in WBRE's signal in Scranton, PA. WBRE is on channel 28 analog


----------



## Infominister

I know the station (used to work there) and they're an NBC affiliate, actually out of Wilkes-Barre, PA, which is the same market. Anyway, all the more reason to protect them.


----------



## SnellKrell

Even though digital will growing by leaps and bounds, especially once analogue is shut down in 2009, I doubt that the New York City stations will be investing a lot of money to update the Empire State Building facilities.


They know that eventaully, they will have to make a large investment when they move facilities downtown to the Freedom Tower.


I believe that the O-T-A usage figure for this market remains at less than 20% of all TV Households.


O-T-A from Empire State is not at the top of their lists!


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Even though digital will growing by leaps and bounds, especially once analogue is shut down in 2009, I doubt that the New York City stations will be investing a lot of money to update the Empire State Building facilities.
> 
> 
> They know that eventaully, they will have to make a large investment when they move facilities downtown to the Freedom Tower.
> 
> 
> I believe that the O-T-A usage figure for this market remains at less than 20% of all TV Households.
> 
> 
> O-T-A from Empire State is not at the top of their lists!



I can understand their perceived financial reasoning, but still!


I spent $25 for radioShack's finest UHF antenna and a decent amount of my own time, just to see if I could get FREE HDTV.


This is the 1st time I've had an interest in terrestrial brodcasting in decades, purely from the standpoint of FREE. I've been a Dish customer for almost 7 years, but too cheap to spend the oney for a HD DVR and the extra fees.


Anyway. after spending $25 for RadioShack's finest UHF antenna , and a decent amount of my own labor, low and behold, I am rcving FREE HDTV in central Suffolk. The only problem is that the only traditional network I'd really be interested in seeing in HD (NBC= Leno, Conan) is too cheap to invest in fixing HD transmission problems.


I'm assuming WNBC could do something to shape their emission patern to reduce interfernce in Scranton/W-B...


----------



## SnellKrell

The FCC approved WNYW-DT increasing its power, but it had to use a directional pattern to avoid interfering with a station in Atlantic City, also on Channel 44.


WNYW-DT is not part of the Combiner atop the Empire State, while WNBC-DT is. This possibly could prevent your solution for the station using a directional signal.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The FCC approved WNYW-DT increasing its power, but it had to use a directional pattern to avoid interfering with a station in Atlantic City, also on Channel 44.
> 
> 
> WNYW-DT is not part of the Combiner atop the Empire State, while WNBC-DT is. This possibly could prevent your solution for the station using a directional signal.




Good point, I'm not an RF engineer.


Still, this is a slight competitive advantage for them, the FREE HDTV aspect.


Has anybody gotten this in writing from WNBC, namely the ESB combiner- Scranton/WB situation?


----------



## Slikkster

I'm in Whitestone, (Queens), and have a Panasonic TH37PX50U Plasma. Right now I have a Terk HDTV-i sitting on top of my entertainment center. The top of the entertainment center is actually a little bit of a well, a couple of inches lower than the outer wood facing. I tried to set the thing up so it's in vertical orientation mode, but sitting on its side, so effectively horizontal, lol.


Anyway, I could never quite get all the stations I wanted at all times no matter which way I faced it. But here's a list of what I can get, depending upon orientation: (Note, I also get all the sub-stations of the primary digital stations of the list below)


2-1

4-1

5-1

7-1

9-1

11-1

13-1

21-1

23-1 (WMBC? Only receive sometimes)

25-1

29-1 (NJ-based religious channel with MANY sub-channels, lol)

31-1

41-1

47-1

50-1

68-1 (WFUT...never anything on it, but strong signal)


I'm going to be trying an antenna that claims to be effective at dealing with multipath issues. Will report back on its effectiveness.


----------



## GoldenBoy

I know the press release was about the local station and not the network, but I was still surprised to see no mention of the Today Show going HD. Not that I watch it, but I would have thought they'd have switched to HD by now considering Good Morning America has been HD for a while already.


----------



## SnellKrell

The schedule to go HD is next week when Meredith joins.


----------



## Slikkster

See this news release:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/todayhdtv082106.htm


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Slikkster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> See this news release:
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/todayhdtv082106.htm



Thanks.


----------



## JSWbBk

With my Terk HDTVi in E Williamsburg, Bklyn, I can get only: 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25 (breaks up a lot), 31 (don't wanna watch Green Acres & Mamas Family in prime time, thanks), 41 (Spanish; breaks up a lot), 53 (Spanish; very strong signal).


My Terk is horizontally oriented and rests on a small platform I have suspended from the cieling so that it points to an exact spot on the wall where reception is twice as good as anywhere else in the room.


----------



## Slikkster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSWbBk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With my Terk HDTVi in E Williamsburg, Bklyn, I can get only: 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25 (breaks up a lot), 31 (don't wanna watch Green Acres & Mamas Family in prime time, thanks), 41 (Spanish; breaks up a lot), 53 (Spanish; very strong signal).
> 
> 
> My Terk is horizontally oriented and rests on a small platform I have suspended from the cieling so that it points to an exact spot on the wall where reception is twice as good as anywhere else in the room.




Well, I'm sure you've got it oriented so you get the best reception on the most channels. But if you turned the thing, I'm sure you could pick up WLIW's signal (and lose other ones, lol). Agreed about 31. Waste of a signal.


I just won an auction for this funky indoor antenna from Winegard (.com). It's called the Sharpshooter 3000. It has multipath-elimination circuitry built in (powered antenna). See the faq here: http://www.winegard.com/offair/sharpshooter.htm 


Gets some really good user reviews. This should sit in my entertainment center "well" up top nicely. Hope it works. It retails for about $80 or so, but some guy on Ebay has a bunch on auction, and I just got it for $31.


----------



## POWERFUL

*NEWS FLASH!* Next weeks Yankees WWOR telecast will be in shown on WWOR-DT in HD.


----------



## Slikkster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> *NEWS FLASH!* Next weeks Yankees WWOR telecast will be in shown on WWOR-DT in HD.



Very interesting. Also interesting the WWOR-DT is NOT featured on Time Warner Cable's HD tier. I get it OTA fine, but wondered why TWC is not adding it to their line up. They have NBC Universal HD in the normal 709 channel slot.


WWOR-DT and WNYW-DT (Channel 5) are both owned by Fox/Murdoch. They split up their DT sub channels. Channel 5-2 is WWOR (9) and Channel 9-2 is WNYW (5).


----------



## beatles6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> *NEWS FLASH!* Next weeks Yankees WWOR telecast will be in shown on WWOR-DT in HD.



It's about frickin' time. It only took them nearly 2 full seasons to do it. Could never understand the delay given the games are produced by YES. It will be interesting to see if this is only for the Red Sox telecast or will continue for the last home game telecast of the saeson vs. Toronto on 9/29.


----------



## tryin2search

Speaking of WWOR, did they change their signal format? Since Cablevision doesn't carry their HD, I use OTA to watch WWOR in HD in lower Westchester. I distinctly remember that my LG said it was 1080i, now it says it is 720p.


I would regularly watch their Thursday night shows & Friday Night Yankees, before Fashion House & Desire started this week, and remember seeing 1080i listed. Am I imagining this, or I just thought of this, maybe this is related to the previous post of the Friday Night Yankees finally being in HD. I think YES uses 720p for their HD. Does anyone know the answer to this one?


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Speaking of WWOR, did they change their signal format? Since Cablevision doesn't carry their HD, I use OTA to watch WWOR in HD in lower Westchester. I distinctly remember that my LG said it was 1080i, now it says it is 720p.
> 
> 
> I would regularly watch their Thursday night shows & Friday Night Yankees, before Fashion House & Desire started this week, and remember seeing 1080i listed. Am I imagining this, or I just thought of this, maybe this is related to the previous post of the Friday Night Yankees finally being in HD. I think YES uses 720p for their HD. Does anyone know the answer to this one?




I don't know what they used to broadcast before, but if they did go from 1080i to 720p, I'm thinking it could have something to do with being a My affiliate. We know that News Corp own My. We know from FOX, that they prefer to broadcast 720p. So perhaps, like FOX, My affiliates now have to broadcast in 720p? I'm just speculating here.


----------



## RemyM

Cablevision is adding WWOR-DT this week. All of their NY DMA systems will have it by Thursday. I'm sure there is a relationship between that and MY 9 finally starting to show the Yankees in HD.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RemyM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...I'm sure there is a relationship between that and MY 9 finally starting to show the Yankees in HD.










When did that happen? That is absolutely great news. When are they supposed to start?


----------



## RemyM

Read back a few posts.


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RemyM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Read back a few posts.










Thanks. I must have missed my morning coffee or something to have missed that.


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Slikkster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very interesting. Also interesting the WWOR-DT is NOT featured on Time Warner Cable's HD tier. I get it OTA fine, but wondered why TWC is not adding it to their line up. They have NBC Universal HD in the normal 709 channel slot.
> 
> 
> WWOR-DT and WNYW-DT (Channel 5) are both owned by Fox/Murdoch. They split up their DT sub channels. Channel 5-2 is WWOR (9) and Channel 9-2 is WNYW (5).



So, does that mean that if you get Channel 5-2, but not 9-1, over-the-air, that you'll get WWOR's HD broadcast of the Yankees?


----------



## JSWbBk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *s2silber* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, does that mean that if you get Channel 5-2, but not 9-1, over-the-air, that you'll get WWOR's HD broadcast of the Yankees?



No, because 5-2 is WWOR's SD feed and 9-2 is WNYW's SD feed. My understanding is that there isn't enough bandwith to multicast 2 HD signals on the same channel.


----------



## RemyM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Speaking of WWOR, did they change their signal format? Since Cablevision doesn't carry their HD, I use OTA to watch WWOR in HD in lower Westchester. I distinctly remember that my LG said it was 1080i, now it says it is 720p.



I don't know if they changed but I got My9HD today from Cablevision and it's 720p for us.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RemyM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if they changed but I got My9HD today from Cablevision and it's 720p for us.



I just checked, and it's showing up on Cablevision. Yesterday when I checked it wasn't there, guess today is its first day.


----------



## Slikkster

As previously reported, today is the day for WNBC-TV to go HD for much of its local programming, in tandem with NBC's Today show offering in HD.


I checked out the early "Today in NY" for a few minutes. Looks good in HD, but for the time I had to watch, it was closeups on anchors vs. wide shots of the set.


As you might expect, field reports are still SD camera shots, so they have colored sidebars.


Their time/temperature bug is indented very far on the right side (for 4:3 compatibility). Makes the bottom third look out of proportion, imo.


----------



## shlin

I was not able to receive WCBS in the past few days. I am in Central NJ. Any insight?


----------



## johninbricknj

I'm in ocean county and CBS is my strongest signal. 90+ at post time.


----------



## reddog_220

I just recently purchased an ATI HDTV wonder for my computer to watch hdtv. Background info i live in manhattan 2.1 miles south of ESB, 3rd flr of a 7 story building facing north. A friend of mine also purchased the same thing and says he can recieve all channels perfectly clear from brooklyn, sunset park. The antenna that came w/ the tuner card did not pick up any signals and only once in awhile did i pick up 7.1. I now purchased a terk tv55 and still nothing. Is there any antenna that would work for my area or am i doing something wrong? i tried to wallk around holding the antenna.


Thanks for the help


----------



## Slikkster

Sounds like you're getting serious multipath. I'm awaiting a Winegard Sharpshooter. See here: http://www.winegard.com/offair/sharp...oter_12-08.pdf 


Terk has rebranded this antenna for their own line.

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/s...4196&langId=-1 


I bought the Winegard on Ebay for about $40 after shipping. Awaiting its delivery. But this is specifically supposed to deal with multipath (signals arriving at your destination at different times because of bouncing off buildings, and creating "locking" problems on your TV, even when you are close to the transmitter).


----------



## jasondean

I emailed WWOR and WNYW. My9 apparently does not get an HD feed from YES (who appears to produce the games for My9). Don't expect to see Yankees in HD anytime soon on My9.


As someone who never watches 9 except for Yankee games.. do they even broadcast anything in HD?


----------



## reddog_220

Thanks slikkster, i think i'll try it out Is it a different between the winegard and the terk antenna you showed me?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jasondean* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I emailed WWOR and WNYW. My9 apparently does not get an HD feed from YES (who appears to produce the games for My9). Don't expect to see Yankees in HD anytime soon on My9.
> 
> 
> As someone who never watches 9 except for Yankee games.. do they even broadcast anything in HD?



Yes, The station's entire myNetwork prime time line-up, Mon.-Sun., 8-10 p.m. -

when not pre-empted for sports.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jasondean* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I emailed WWOR and WNYW. My9 apparently does not get an HD feed from YES (who appears to produce the games for My9). Don't expect to see Yankees in HD anytime soon on My9.
> 
> 
> As someone who never watches 9 except for Yankee games.. do they even broadcast anything in HD?




I thought MY9 advertised tonight's Yankees game as being in HD. We'll see.


----------



## Berk32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought MY9 advertised tonight's Yankees game as being in HD. We'll see.



It's been advertised during yankee broadcasts all week, although they did throw in that is was "only available on iO channel 709"


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Berk32* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's been advertised during yankee broadcasts all week, although they did throw in that is was "only available on iO channel 709"



That makes no sense to me. How can this be available in HD on cable and not OTA?


----------



## Berk32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That makes no sense to me. How can this be available in HD on cable and not OTA?




You are right... it doesn't make sense...


I just thought I'd mention it... as they did say it...


----------



## dturturro

Nobody ever metions OTA.


----------



## POWERFUL

The last time a Yankee announcer mentioned OTA was "The Scooter".


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The last time a Yankee announcer mentioned OTA was "The Scooter".










while scoffing down a canoli in honor of (fill in local name) birthday.


----------



## Berk32

Game is rained out....

guess we'll never know...


day-night doubleheaders Saturday and Sunday


----------



## johnnyhd

Has anyone seen the new NBC local news now in HD. I think is started this week. It looks pretty good. At least the in studio shots. Most of the video news footage is 4:3 with some nice Peacock colored borders. I have seen it mostly at 11pm, but is probably in all the news time slots. Pretty cool though.


Also, maybe tonights Yankee game in HD on my nine OTA?


----------



## POWERFUL

I doubt it, even though this is near the home of "The Boss", none of these games are listed in HD.


----------



## RemyM

Yes isn't doing their games from Tampa in HD so there is no way My9 will have it in HD. Next Friday's home game vs Toronto is another story.


----------



## POWERFUL

They said tonite that next week's game is in HD on WWOR-DT and Cablevision ch 709.


----------



## nogangz

Ok guys, I live in New York City lower manhattan and I want to receive HDTV OTA. I live 2.1 miles away from the Empire State building where all the signals are being transmitted. I recently picked up a Zenith ZHDTV1 Silver Sensor after reading all the good reviews. To my surprise, I couldn't pick up any digital channels at all. The vhf analog reception is also horrible.

After some extended research, it seems like my problem is the multipath distortion.


Can someone point me to a quality indoor antenna that will work in my situation? I am looking into the Winegard SS-3000 Sharp shooter right now but I am a little heisitant due to the mixed reviews. Any help would be great. Thanks a lot


----------



## dturturro

The SS is UHF only. It's also pretty widely accepted as the best indoor antenna on the market.


----------



## SnellKrell

I agree that the Silver Sensor is about the best indoor antenna. I use it - am located in the East 60s in an apartment house surrounded by other, and some taller buildings. You have to walk the SS around your room slowly to determine sweet spots for reception, station by station.


Be careful of amplified antennas. Living so close the Empire State, you don't need stronger signals - your problem, as you mentioned is multipath.


Be patient and keep trying.


----------



## dturturro

The Nats at Mets game on CW is in SD so far. Anyone have contact info for the station?


Nevermind, it's fixed.


----------



## tryin2search

Did the I network, formerly PAX, get sold or something? I'm flipping throught the channels and 31-1 is now "ion", 31-2 "qubo" coming in early 2007, 31-3 "ion W" & 31-4 remains worship. Anyone know what's up?


I think it is a mistake to go with more than three subchannels. Every station that I've seen that crams several subchannels into their bandwith, gives a horrible compressed picture.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did the I network, formerly PAX, get sold or something? I'm flipping throught the channels and 31-1 is now "ion", 31-2 "qubo" coming in early 2007, 31-3 "ion W" & 31-4 remains worship. Anyone know what's up?
> 
> 
> I think it is a mistake to go with more than three subchannels. Every station that I've seen that crams several subchannels into their bandwith, gives a horrible compressed picture.



Yes, NBC-Universal, which owns about a third, has taken over management of the "network" and has renamed/branded it as "ion."


There are many contractual obligations made by Paxson that have to be honored/burned-off by NBC.


Let's see how long G.E. will allow things to remain?


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, NBC-Universal, which owns about a third, has taken over management of the "network" and has renamed/branded it as "ion."
> 
> 
> There are many contractual obligations made by Paxson that have to be honored/burned-off by NBC.
> 
> 
> Let's see how long G.E. will allow things to remain?



Thanks for the info. I looked up qubo and found that it's childrens' programming. From what I saw it will also be on NBC, Telemundo and ION channels.


----------



## Dave Kristol

I used to get Ch.13, but now I don't. Signal strength swings between about 65% and 25%. It has been this way for several days now. I'm in northern NJ, about 15 mi. due west of the ESB. I get the other ESB channels okay. Has 13's signal strength dropped recently?


OTOH, I seem to have (suddenly?) started getting Ch.58 quite well, including 58-5, NJN-HD. (I notice, though, that the EPG for 58-5 is really the guide for 58-1.)


Any insights or comments why these changes should have occurred?


TIA

Dave Kristol


----------



## Slikkster

I've had issues with many of the OTA stations the past few days. I was actually adjusting my indoor antenna for best reception, when all of the sudden many of the ESB OTA's dropped strength. I figured it was my antenna or cable, and something was amiss there. Still haven't checked that possibility, but the fact that it happened while I was actually adjusting makes me wonder. But it would be a lot more comforting to know other people show reduced signal strengths on the ESB stations currently.


----------



## tryin2search

The OTA station that is consistently inconsistent is NBC DT 4. Its signal strength varies from day to day, hour to hour. I've never been able to pick up 13's digital signal, and I'm about 14 miles from the ESB, in Westchester county. CBS, FOX & My9 are the most solid signals I get, while ABC, CW, Univision, channel 31, are fine @ 90% of the time.


----------



## Slikkster

Actually, I did an experiment and just had my Panasonic Plasma do another Auto-scan of stations, and it returned the stations to normal signal strength. So, guess in this case it was the TV tuner, itself, that got temporarily hosed.


Channel 13, if I'm not mistaken, is actually licensed to Newark, so it's digital signal is oriented in that direction. I'm east of that, so its problematic to get it and still get all other stations. As a matter of fact, I often get NJ PBS better than Channel 13.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Slikkster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, I did an experiment and just had my Panasonic Plasma do another Auto-scan of stations, and it returned the stations to normal signal strength. So, guess in this case it was the TV tuner, itself, that got temporarily hosed.
> 
> 
> Channel 13, if I'm not mistaken, is actually licensed to Newark, so it's digital signal is oriented in that direction. I'm east of that, so its problematic to get it and still get all other stations. As a matter of fact, I often get NJ PBS better than Channel 13.



WNET-DT's signal, since the station moved its transmission to the Empire State Buidling, is no longer directional - toward Newark. As part of the Combiner Project, the signal for this station is omni-directional. The problems are the high frequency - Channel 61 and very low power.


----------



## cmuwallydog

Hey all...I live in manhattan (West side in the 40s) and wondering if anyone knows how the OTA reception is. Considering buying the Panasonic without tuner but if I can get good reception I might opt for the new Pioneer.


Please help!


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNET-DT's signal, since the station moved its transmission to the Empire State Buidling, is no longer directional - toward Newark. As part of the Combiner Project, the signal for this station is omni-directional. The problems are the high frequency - Channel 61 and very low power.



Out of curiosity I checked antennaweb.org to see what they said for Ch.13 for my location. I was surprised to find that WNET-DT is no longer listed for me, although it used to be! (The analog station is there.)


Dave Kristol


----------



## johninbricknj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity I checked antennaweb.org to see what they said for Ch.13 for my location. I was surprised to find that WNET-DT is no longer listed for me, although it used to be! (The analog station is there.)
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol



Knowing a close proximity of your location might help others. Its just a blank statement otherwise







.

EDIT- Saw local in body of post NOTE wish ppl could put local in signature.


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johninbricknj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Knowing a close proximity of your location might help others. Its just a blank statement otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> EDIT- Saw local in body of post NOTE wish ppl could put local in signature.



Summit, NJ, 20 mi. due west of ESB.


Dave Kristol


----------



## johninbricknj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity I checked antennaweb.org to see what they said for Ch.13 for my location. I was surprised to find that WNET-DT is no longer listed for me, although it used to be! (The analog station is there.)
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol



Acording to antennaweb I don't get no digitals, lot's of analogs. The only major networks I can't get is NBC(28) and PBS(61). I find
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/ to be more reliable. I'm 50 miles south of ESB.


----------



## Robert47

I am approximately 1.5 miles from the Empire State Building and have line of sight to it out my window. I am using Windows Media Center with an HDTV OTA tuner card installed (KWORLD ATSC-110). I had been using an RCA non-directional antenna (ANT585), but recently upgraded to the directional Terk HDTVa. I can reliably get both Fox (1051) and ABC (1071) with both antennas, but I am unable to get picture from either NBC (1041) or CBS (1021) with either antenna.


Does anyone know what the problem might be? I get sound intermittently from both NBC and CBS, but picture from neither. This just doesn't make sense to me given that I am so close to the broadcast tower! Please advise!


[Edit: Updating my video card drivers fixed this problem, picture appears correctly now.]


----------



## Dave Kristol

I had recently complained that I no longer could get Channel 13. Last night it reappeared, even in the rain! Signal strength was around 67% (whatever that means) and seemed reasonably constant.


Dave Kristol


----------



## Ted Todorov

Is the Zenith ZHDTV1 antenna available from any brick & mortar store in Manhattan or do I have to get it from Amazon? Any thoughts on OTA reception in the West 70s or should I take my chances with the ZHDTV1?


Thanks,

Ted


----------



## icemannyr

I just took some still caps and also recorded WNET-DT and the video rez is 1440X1088 instead of 1920X1088.


Where did the other 480 horizontal lines go?


----------



## shamelli




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ted Todorov* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the Zenith ZHDTV1 antenna available from any brick & mortar store in Manhattan or do I have to get it from Amazon? Any thoughts on OTA reception in the West 70s or should I take my chances with the ZHDTV1?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ted



Circuit City Union Square


----------



## pcporemba

I am looking for a little help in getting WNBC NY on my system. I am using a DB-8 (no amp) antenna , upgraded from a DB-4, mounted outside on my roof. Clear view to the east, 1100 feet up, and 38 miles from the tower. Below are some channels that I am getting along with the signal strength:

WCBS 2-01 100

FOX 5-01 88

WABC 7-01 100

WWOR 9-01 91

WNET 13-01 74

I've tried the tuners in my Panasonic plasma and Dishnetwork 942 receiver (the 942 gets higher numbers across the board). From what I can learn all the NYC broadcasts are from the Empire State building so why no signal from WNBC when ABC and CBS are maxed? Any ideas where I went wrong?


----------



## Ted Todorov

Well, I got a Phillips Silver Sensor from CC and all I can get is WCBS. I am on the fourth floor facing south (west 70s in Manhattan). I live in a five story brownstone -- would trying some sort of rooftop antenna (assuming I get get access to the roof) be worth the effort -- there still wouldn't be line of sight to the ESB.


Any suggestions welcome. Thanks!


----------



## Diacritical

Sorry -- missed this thread.


Today I stopped receiving any signal at all on 2-1 (WCBS). All the other local stations are coming in at over 90 (meter on my TiVo), but nothing on 2-1.


The tuners seem to be working fine and the antenna seems to be OK. This evening is the first time I've ever seen an OTA channel just disappear.


----------



## JSWbBk

Over the last few days I have noticed that Telemundo (Analog Ch. 47) is now broadcasting over DTV Ch. 36-3, but without any sound.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSWbBk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Over the last few days I have noticed that Telemundo (Analog Ch. 47) is now broadcasting over DTV Ch. 36-3, but without any sound.



Thanks for the info about Telemundo. I didn't know they had finally gone digital. I just checked it out and it comes in fine on 36-3, sound and all. The signal is steady but doesn't look like they are transmitting it at a high signal strength.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSWbBk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Over the last few days I have noticed that Telemundo (Analog Ch. 47) is now broadcasting over DTV Ch. 36-3, but without any sound.



Thanks for the info about Telemundo. I didn't know they had finally gone digital. I just checked it out and it comes in fine on 36-3, sound and all. The signal is steady but doesn't look like they are transmitting it at a high signal strength.


----------



## ANGEL 35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shamelli* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Circuit City Union Square



Circuit city on west80st. B.WAY


----------



## shamelli




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ANGEL 35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Circuit city on west80st. B.WAY



I figured there may be one all the way out there, forgive me I don't venture out of the LES unless warranted


----------



## tryin2search

CW 11 has had a test pattern up for a few minutes now on both OTA and Cablevision HD


----------



## JSWbBk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CW 11 has had a test pattern up for a few minutes now on both OTA and Cablevision HD



Great! Looks like they're finally making an effort to improve their programming and put on something useful.


----------



## dturturro

I'll take Veronica Mars over any CSI/L&O/NBC gameshow or American Idol out there!


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSWbBk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great! Looks like they're finally making an effort to improve their programming and put on something useful.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll take Veronica Mars over any CSI/L&O/NBC gameshow or American Idol out there!




hey! L&O rules!


darn trouble maker.


----------



## ramonv

WOW!


ESPNHD looks great on channel 9 (MNTV)


----------



## johnnyhd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW!
> 
> 
> ESPNHD looks great on channel 9 (MNTV)




Yes it does! I saw My 9 was showing the game on titantv. I was hoping it might be in HD as it wasn't listed as such. I was pumped when I tuned in and it was in HD. Looks great! Good job My Nine!


----------



## Phil Hightech

Now if everyone dropped their cable subscription, we would get all the games in HD all year long!

I dropped mine, just waiting on the several other million of you out there


----------



## jaypb

The above people who saw this game in HD on Channel 9's HD feed....were you watching OTA or via Cable/Satellite? I noticed it was on 9-1 OTA but a friend of mine with TWC in Staten Island said that the HD feed for channel 9 there was showing network programming.


So....was it available on other cable systems? I'm not sure if D* carries "channel 9" in HD on their new satellite local channel programming since I don't have a newer box/dish.


----------



## RemyM

It was shown on in HD on WWOR-DT via Cablevision channel 709.


----------



## johnnyhd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The above people who saw this game in HD on Channel 9's HD feed....were you watching OTA or via Cable/Satellite? I noticed it was on 9-1 OTA but a friend of mine with TWC in Staten Island said that the HD feed for channel 9 there was showing network programming.
> 
> 
> So....was it available on other cable systems? I'm not sure if D* carries "channel 9" in HD on their new satellite local channel programming since I don't have a newer box/dish.



I was watching 9-1 OTA (as is the title of this thread). It was carrying the ESPN Game feed. Nice!


----------



## ramonv

I was watching it on 9-1 OTA.


----------



## meehawl

I am in Hoboken, direct LOS to the Empire State Building - it's really close.


My NBC digital seems to have vanished over the past couple of days. It's been fine for weeks and now... nothing. I am using Samsung SIR-T451s with a DB-4 antenna. Analog NBC is coming in over some rabbit ears.


----------



## Rieper

Anyone else notice that 5-1 OTA is not carrying tonight's FOX World Series game in HD. I'm getting black pillar boxes...


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rieper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that 5-1 OTA is not carrying tonight's FOX World Series game in HD. I'm getting black pillar boxes...



O-T-A, TW Cable and DirecTV feeds all in 4.3 aspect ratio!


Very strange. Must be a huge problem somewhere.


----------



## Roger Lococco

can't even receive 5-1 and 9-1 tonight.


----------



## Rieper

Has anyone been able to get OTA 7-1 ABC???


I live in Manhattan, and I can't get 7-1, 7-2, or 7-3 for the past 2 days.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rieper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to get OTA 7-1 ABC???
> 
> 
> I live in Manhattan, and I can't get 7-1, 7-2, or 7-3 for the past 2 days.




I'm out in Suffolk county and got it on the "OTA" cable feed of regular channels - without antenna or special channels (7xx) --no cable box


----------



## SnellKrell

I also live in Manhattan and WABC-DT is coming in fine with good signal level.


----------



## icemannyr

Are the WCBS-DT Gray Pillars gone? Right now the pillar bars are black.


Still black sides during The Late Late Show.


----------



## JSWbBk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are the WCBS-DT Gray Pillars gone? Right now the pillar bars are black. Still black sides during The Late Late Show.



My experience is that the sidebars are gray when you're watching the CBS network feed, but black when you are watching WCBS-TV local programming. I think this even applies to commercials too. Anyone else?


----------



## Scott G




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSWbBk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My experience is that the sidebars are gray when you're watching the CBS network feed, but black when you are watching WCBS-TV local programming. I think this even applies to commercials too. Anyone else?



Yes, the gray bars are part of the national CBS network, but the local WCBS uses black bars.


----------



## michaelk

I guess the left coast likes grey but the right coast likes black. That's funny they are different. You'd think a good amount of network people are involved at WCBS being the east coast mothership and all....


----------



## greenknight

My son lives in Astoria and will be getting an HDTV for Christmas. He has D* for Sunday Ticket so the question is would a set-top antenna like the SS be enough to gets the locals? If you look out the window of his 3rd floor apt. you can see the Empire State Building.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## SnellKrell

This is most likely not the answer you had hoped for.


No one knows!!!


Having line-of-sight to the Empire State Building is a definite plus. But with the vagaries of UHF digital reception, especially in a metropolitan area, you really don't know until you try it.


I would recommend that he try the Silver Sensor, especially bought from a place where it can be returned. I use it in Manhattan, in the midst of taller buildings without line-of-sight and I'm amazed how well it does. It is highly directional, and the slightest change in positioning drastically changes its ability to receive stations.


Again, try it. I hope and think he'll be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## GoldenBoy

Is anyone else getting audio drop outs on FOX? This has been happening constantly now for me for the past couple of weeks. Every 10, 15 minutes or so, the sound drops out for maybe 10 to 20 seconds, and then comes back in. It only happens on Fox.


I'm using a DirecTV HR10-250, and I'm not sure if it is the station or the recent firmware upgrade from DirecTV causing it, as it started happening around the same time.


Sorry if this has been discussed already. I did a search, but I didn't come up with anything.


----------



## greenknight

Thanks, Gary. Not too suprised to hear this. Will do as you suggest - worst case is we go to the roof with a huge yagi and a rotor. This will give me an excuse to fly up and help!!


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoldenBoy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone else getting audio drop outs on FOX? This has been happening constantly now for me for the past couple of weeks. Every 10, 15 minutes or so, the sound drops out for maybe 10 to 20 seconds, and then comes back in. It only happens on Fox.
> 
> 
> I'm using a DirecTV HR10-250, and I'm not sure if it is the station or the recent firmware upgrade from DirecTV causing it, as it started happening around the same time.
> 
> 
> Sorry if this has been discussed already. I did a search, but I didn't come up with anything.



Yes! And I'm using the DirecTV HR10-250, too.







They're not as bad on Channel 88 as OTA, but still there. Hopefully, if enough of us call DirecTV and complain, they'll work out a fix. It's been happening ever since D*TV downloaded new software from the satellite. (See discussions in the HDTV recorder forum.)


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *s2silber* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes! And I'm using the DirecTV HR10-250, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're not as bad on Channel 88 as OTA, but still there. Hopefully, if enough of us call DirecTV and complain, they'll work out a fix. It's been happening ever since D*TV downloaded new software from the satellite. (See discussions in the HDTV recorder forum.)



I've experienced this also (on multiple 10-250's)...and only (so far) on OTA stations (FOX, NBC, CBS IIRC) and as you said it is a quirk that seems to have occurred from the latest SW download.


In my case, it's 8-12 seconds of silence followed by a pixelation of the image and then everything goes back to normal.


Quite annoying


----------



## Infominister

What does "IIRC" stand for?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *s2silber* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What does "IIRC" stand for?



If I Remember Correctly....


----------



## Bogney Baux

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWbBk

My experience is that the sidebars are gray when you're watching the CBS network feed, but black when you are watching WCBS-TV local programming. I think this even applies to commercials too. Anyone else?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scott G* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, the gray bars are part of the national CBS network, but the local WCBS uses black bars.



It is the opposite. CBS Network feeds do not have gray bars.


WCBS inserted the gray bars into standard definition CBS Network shows (such as 60 Minutes and Price is Right). All locally originated shows (such as CH 2 News) and syndicated shows (such as Judge Judy) also had the gray bars inserted by WCBS.


The gray bar policy for CBS O&O stations may have changed. I see that WBZ, the CBS station in Boston, also no longer has the gray bars (I receive WBZ from Canadian satellite).


----------



## GoldenBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've experienced this also (on multiple 10-250's)...and only (so far) on OTA stations (FOX, NBC, CBS IIRC) and as you said it is a quirk that seems to have occurred from the latest SW download.
> 
> 
> In my case, it's 8-12 seconds of silence followed by a pixelation of the image and then everything goes back to normal.
> 
> 
> Quite annoying



Yes, that's it exactly! Only on OTA, and comes back in exactly as you said. I should have been a little more specific.


----------



## patrickpiteo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoldenBoy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, that's it exactly! Only on OTA, and comes back in exactly as you said. I should have been a little more specific.



I have seen the same problem.


----------



## Hunter Mackenzie

I am on the Upper West Side in the 70's and Just bought a Silver Sensor and had it pointed in the direction of the ESB....and was unable to get any Digital Channels except for NJN In NJ....Any Suggestions as to what I could do next?.....A different type of antenna maybe..I am at a loss...Thanks For any Help..Hunter


----------



## SnellKrell

Most likely, you don't have line-of-sight to the ESB, and therefore are receiving multipath signals - that is, signals bouncing off various buildings between your home and the ESB.


What you have to do is to "walk" the antenna around your room. Slowly try different directions and note when you get the best signal.


----------



## Hunter Mackenzie

Thanks I will Try That.....When I did move it towards the window The signal got slightly better but that was getting NJN in NJ and I still was unable to pick up anything off of the ESB...and My SamsungTv will not give me a signal meter to adjust if it doesent find a digital signal....Would you think that if i changed antenna to maybe a Sharpshooter would that work?


----------



## Hunter Mackenzie

In addition.....I am assuming that any antenna I get does not have to be amplified is that correct?


----------



## SnellKrell

One never knows until you try it!


Make sure you can return it if it doesn't help.


----------



## SnellKrell

I would think that amplification is not the problem!


Being so close to the various transmission locations,

I'd stay away from amplified antennas. You could

overload the circuits of your receiver.


----------



## michaelk

agreed about the amp- I'm around 40 miles from philly and dont need an amp with a silver sensor to get those. NYC is about 50 miles and that requires an amp. So 30 or 40 blocks should be plenty fine sans amp.


----------



## Dave Kristol

Turned on the TV to watch WNBC-HD and found that, although I've got good signal strength, I get "No Program" on 4-1, 4-2, 4-4. I've gotten them before, and I can watch other HD channels.


Except 13. I haven't gotten Ch.13 for a week or two. That happened once before, but then Ch.13 reappeared.


Anyone receiving WNBC-HD okay?


Dave Kristol


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Turned on the TV to watch WNBC-HD and found that, although I've got good signal strength, I get "No Program" on 4-1, 4-2, 4-4. I've gotten them before, and I can watch other HD channels.
> 
> 
> Except 13. I haven't gotten Ch.13 for a week or two. That happened once before, but then Ch.13 reappeared.
> 
> 
> Anyone receiving WNBC-HD okay?
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol



Well I'll chime in and spill some vitrol! :


I sat down to watch The Office on one of my HDTIVO's and lo and behold the *((* thing only recorded NINE minutes of the show! IIRC, The Office airs from 8:30 to 9pm....so I'm not sure *exactly* what time the damn thing started/stopped recording.....


When I got home tonight I didn't tune into 4-1 or 13-1.....so I'm not sure WTF happened. I had chalked it up to the damn HDTIVO acting up....until I saw your post.


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I'll chime in and spill some vitrol! :
> 
> 
> I sat down to watch The Office on one of my HDTIVO's and lo and behold the *((* thing only recorded NINE minutes of the show! IIRC, The Office airs from 8:30 to 9pm....so I'm not sure *exactly* what time the damn thing started/stopped recording.....
> 
> 
> When I got home tonight I didn't tune into 4-1 or 13-1.....so I'm not sure WTF happened. I had chalked it up to the damn HDTIVO acting up....until I saw your post.



4-1 returned by the time I was ready to watch ER. I don't know when it reappeared.


I still have no idea what's going on with 13.


Dave Kristol


----------



## POWERFUL

Did NBC increase they power in the past few days? I finally I'm getting NBC and I have a hard time believing it is due to the foliage dropping. If Gary or George can pop in on this one that would be great.


----------



## SnellKrell

I have no idea if WNBC-DT has increased its power - but I doubt it.


I, too have been plagued by inconsistent reception on many channels. I'm able to receive local reception over-the-air and by way of DirecTV. Even with Direct, I can't remember more video and audio dropouts. Who knows? With the vagaries of digital, UHF reception - temperature, humidity, trees with leaves, trees without leaves, it's absolutely frustrating.


WNBC-DT, until recently, had been my strongest - most stable signal - not any longer.


It will be interesting to see what happens when many New York metropolitan area stations change channel allocations and power as the analogue cut-off date nears.


As of now the major changes will be:


WCBS-DT will move to Channel 33 - from Channel 56

WABC-DT will move to Channel 7 - from Channel 45

WNET-DT will move to Channel 13 - from Channel 61

WPXN-DT will move to Channel 31 - from Channel 30

WLIW-DT will move to Channel 21 - from Channel 22


----------



## dturturro

Any idea how the CT stations will realign after the shut off? I'm asking because they have a digital channel 33 that I believe is one of the reasons I have problems receiving CW. It would be nice if they'd switch.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see what happens when many New York metropolitan area stations change channel allocations and power as the analogue cut-off date nears




yeah, I can hardly wait.


----------



## SnellKrell

Concerning Connecticut:


Bridgeport, Channel 52 will move to Channel 49

New London, Channel 34 will move to Channel 26

Waterbury, Channel 12 will move to Channel 20


In Hartford, Channel 33 will not be moving, so you will continue to have problems receiving

NY's Channel 33. But it will no longer be WPIX-DT/CW, it will be WCBS-DT/CBS.


----------



## dturturro

Does CBS plan on broadcasting a higher power that CW?


----------



## Roger Lococco

currently ABC-DT is the best, strongest station I receive,once it changes to 7,it'll probably be very difficult to get.


----------



## icemannyr

I don't know if it was mentioned yet but WMBC-DT (UHF 18) is now multicasting with four channels.

63.1 is Digital version of analog Ch63 UHF feed

63.2 CBS - Korea Broadcast Network

63.3 YTN - Korean Cable News Channel

63.4 Color Bars


----------



## meehawl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *meehawl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My NBC digital seems to have vanished over the past couple of days. It's been fine for weeks and now... nothing. I am using Samsung SIR-T451s with a DB-4 antenna. Analog NBC is coming in over some rabbit ears.



NBC came back for a while, but it seems to have crapped out again. Gone last night and tonight.


----------



## beatles6

This is very strange. As of 11:30 PM all 3 DT locals lost their HD feeds. Letterman and Leno are in SD and ABC's election coverage which was HD prior to the 11 PM news is now SD.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beatles6* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is very strange. As of 11:30 PM all 3 DT locals lost their HD feeds. Letterman and Leno are in SD and ABC's election coverage which was HD prior to the 11 PM news is now SD.



I noticed that both Leno's AND both Conan's last night were NOT in HD...and it was my assumption that this happened because everything was delayed/pre-empted for 10-15 minutes for extra election coverage by the local news on Channel 4.


If CBS and ABC were also delaying the start of their 11:30-11:40pm shows...does that mean that CBS/NBC local stations don't have the ability to air Leno/Conan/Letterman in HD IF they are time delayed? (I.e. NO recording capabilities for the network feeds of these 3 shows?) This might have already been answered in previous pages, but I've only been recording Conan/Leno in HD on my Tivo for about a month now.....


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that both Leno's AND both Conan's last night were NOT in HD...and it was my assumption that this happened because everything was delayed/pre-empted for 10-15 minutes for extra election coverage by the local news on Channel 4.
> 
> 
> If CBS and ABC were also delaying the start of their 11:30-11:40pm shows...does that mean that CBS/NBC local stations don't have the ability to air Leno/Conan/Letterman in HD IF they are time delayed? (I.e. NO recording capabilities for the network feeds of these 3 shows?) This might have already been answered in previous pages, but I've only been recording Conan/Leno in HD on my Tivo for about a month now.....




that seems to be the case with HD on many stations.


Same sort of thing happens when football games run long.


Basically, it seems in most cases that if an affiliate misses the start of the HD show off the sat feed they just give up on it and go to SD.


----------



## icemannyr

WCBS-DT Reception problems.


I get a signal of 85% from WCBS-DT Ch56 but no audio or video via my tuner card.







I have no problem with the other NYC locals.


----------



## Rieper

Did anyone else notice OTA 4-1 WNBC-DT is now reporting the show's program info? Even the plot/episode synopsis!!!


This is such good news, because AFAIK, WNBC-4 has never before reported program info, much less plot synopsis.


Thank you NBC!!


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WCBS-DT Reception problems.
> 
> 
> I get a signal of 85% from WCBS-DT Ch56 but no audio or video via my tuner card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no problem with the other NYC locals.



It's an error with my tuner card. I can tune in WCBS-DT but I can't see video.

If I record I do get audio and video on the playback.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's an error with my tuner card. I can tune in WCBS-DT but I can't see video.
> 
> If I record I do get audio and video on the playback.



What tuner card do you have?


----------



## JSWbBk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rieper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did anyone else notice OTA 4-1 WNBC-DT is now reporting the show's program info? Even the plot/episode synopsis!!!
> 
> 
> This is such good news, because AFAIK, WNBC-4 has never before reported program info, much less plot synopsis.
> 
> 
> Thank you NBC!!



Yes, I noticed. I think it happened on the day the clocks were turned back.


WABC-DT is annoying because it says "NETWORK" during prime time, and not the names of the shows.


Did anyone notice that WCBS-DT used to give the wrong time, about 8 minutes fast, but then the problem corrected itself when the clocks changed.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What tuner card do you have?



DVICO Fusion III Q.


----------



## harican

When is the analog cut off?


----------



## harican

Concerning WMBC-DT,

Yeah, I have noticed this digital channel addition about 1 month ago.

A good additition for the Korean crowd.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harican* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When is the analog cut off?




February 18, 2009!


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> February 18, 2009!




so say's the current law.


Time will tell...


----------



## jhb-snowboard

I've searched, and maybe I've missed something, but is there a NY northern suburb (westchester Putnam) OTA thread? Just installed an OTA antenna in the attic (terk outdoor/indoor slime profile). Works fantastic for the channels I can receive (2,5,7,9, 41,55,29) but can't seem to pull in 4,11, 13,21. Would love to get 4 and 13. Antennaweb.org says 4,11,and 13 and 25 are on the same 199 degree and same distance 38.2 miles as 2,4,5,9, and 41. Any suggestions or reasoning would be helpful. Thanks


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhb-snowboard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Works fantastic for the channels I can receive (2,5,7,9, 41,55,29) but can't seem to pull in 4,11, 13,21. Would love to get 4 and 13. Antennaweb.org says 4,11,and 13 and 25 are on the same 199 degree and same distance 38.2 miles as 2,4,5,9, and 41. Any suggestions or reasoning would be helpful. Thanks



I'd LOVE to get 4 also, but no way where I live, 46.5 miles EAST from ESB. The other majors come in fine. From what I've gleaned this is related to WNBC-DTV having a low power transmitter due to complications at the age old ESB and/or interference with an NBC affiliate in Wilbes-Barre, PA.


I'd love to see somebody respond if there's supposed to be a fix BEFORE the Freedom Tower is built in who-knows-when.


----------



## SnellKrell

Sorry, but WNBC-DT transmits from the new Combiner system at the ESB. WNBC-DT's power is not low - it's 200.2kW and transmits at a relatively low frequency, Channel 28.


The station uses the verys same circular pattern from the same antenna as Channels 2, 7, 9, 11 and 13.


Trying to make sense of reception problems will drive you crazy.


13's power is very low and uses a high frequency Channel 61.


Don't expect anything to be done with the ESB facility. Stations will wait until the Freedom tower is up and operating.


You may need a higher gain antenna and/or place it outdoors.


----------



## makan01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhb-snowboard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've searched, and maybe I've missed something, but is there a NY northern suburb (westchester Putnam) OTA thread? Just installed an OTA antenna in the attic (terk outdoor/indoor slime profile). Works fantastic for the channels I can receive (2,5,7,9, 41,55,29) but can't seem to pull in 4,11, 13,21. Would love to get 4 and 13. Antennaweb.org says 4,11,and 13 and 25 are on the same 199 degree and same distance 38.2 miles as 2,4,5,9, and 41. Any suggestions or reasoning would be helpful. Thanks




I live in Mamaroneck, NY and like I just installed a Radioshack antenna outdoor next to my HD and SD Dishes. Like you I can pull 22 channels but the channel I bought the antenna for: Channel 11 CW. Antennaweb.org is telling me that it should be similar to the other 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,31,36,41, but no 11. I am going crazy. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry, but WNBC-DT transmits from the new Combiner system at the ESB. WNBC-DT's power is not low - it's 200.2kW and transmits at a relatively low frequency, Channel 28.
> 
> 
> The station uses the verys same circular pattern from the same antenna as Channels 2, 7, 9, 11 and 13.
> 
> 
> Trying to make sense of reception problems will drive you crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> You may need a higher gain antenna and/or place it outdoors.



That's interesting. I get only a whisper of a signal (I havean ATI HD wonder and various SW) from WNBC-DT whereas the 2, 5 & 7 DTV come in very well. This agrees with the antennaweb prediction for my area: no WNBC-DT. If I slide my loaction closer to the city, I have to be in western Nassau county before antennaweb predicts I'd be able to receive it.


If WNBC-Dt has the same circular pattern and 200 kW of Tx power, why is it's reception so MUCH worse and how can antennaweb predict that it will be so much worse? What's the difference?


I do have an external high gain yagi and a mast pre-amp...


----------



## jhb-snowboard

makan01, what radio shack antenna did you use? You are a lot closer to the city than I am (westchester/putnam line)


----------



## jhb-snowboard

does channel 41 offer that much more power. It also comes in.


----------



## makan01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhb-snowboard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> makan01, what radio shack antenna did you use? You are a lot closer to the city than I am (westchester/putnam line)



HDTV Indoor/Outdoor Directional Antenna Model: 15-2187. As I said, I am getting over 22 stations with this one except CW11 that is in the same direction (235º) and about 18 miles away as a lot of the other stations that give me 80+ signal strength.


I managed to get the signal for a split second after I added it manually and inputted the transmit number of the station (33). I am planning to go up again and start fiddling with the direction of the antenna. Wish me luck


----------



## jhb-snowboard

This may be a basic question, but how do you check the signal strength of a station?


----------



## makan01

It is not basic at all. I wouldn't know what the signal strength is if it wasn't for the Dish Network receiver telling me.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhb-snowboard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This may be a basic question, but how do you check the signal strength of a station?



Most set top boxes have built in signal meters. I'm sure most new TVs have them too. The real question is how or what do they measure. Some measure total signal level, others signal to noise ratio. The best measure is how reliable the signal appears to you as the viewer.


----------



## jhb-snowboard

makan01- thanks for info. Picked up the radio shack indoor/outdoor antenna model 15-2187, connected it up, pointed it in the general direction required, and BINGO! no fine tuning required --channels 2,4,5,7,9,11,13! and all the subs 38+ miles to the ESB.


----------



## jhb-snowboard

4and 13 just went out again, but at least 11 is still coming in strong


----------



## makan01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhb-snowboard*  /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 4and 13 just went out again, but at least 11 is still coming in strong



I spent my Sunday morning lounging on the roof of my house fine tuning the direction of the antenna with my wife on the wireless phone looking at the signal strength of channel 11 as it fades in and out. After about half an hour of playing around and moving the antenna way past the 235° (more like 270°) I managed to get the signal up to 70 and get 5 more channels too. But alas, Channel 11 is not so stable. It comes in for a solid half hour and goes out again for 10-20 secs. I can live with that as long as I get SmallVille in HD.



The lesson of Sunday is not to take everything you read for granted. I think you should fine tune the antenna in order to get the 4 and 13 to the level you want.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *makan01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I spent my Sunday morning lounging on the roof of my house fine tuning the direction of the antenna with my wife on the wireless phone looking at the signal strength of channel 11 as it fades in and out. After about half an hour of playing around and moving the antenna way past the 235° (more like 270°) I managed to get the signal up to 70 and get 5 more channels too. But alas, Channel 11 is not so stable. It comes in for a solid half hour and goes out again for 10-20 secs. I can live with that as long as I get SmallVille in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> The lesson of Sunday is not to take everything you read for granted. I think you should fine tune the antenna in order to get the 4 and 13 to the level you want.



You guys need to get an antenna rotator. Channel master's best unit sells for under $90 for goodness sake.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You guys need to get an antenna rotator. Channel master's best unit sells for under $90 for goodness sake.



He would have spent about two minutes doing this instead of half the day. I have posted dozens of times about this; glad someone else is saying it this time.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> He would have spent about two minutes doing this instead of half the day. I have posted dozens of times about this; glad someone else is saying it this time.



Yeah, and this is especially true for people like us, on Long Island, where the towers are spread out a bit. Because without a rotator, you would have to essentially choose which channels you want to receive, point the antenna, and say screw the rest. And this is really relevant, if you have a very high gain, directional (as hell) antenna such as the CM4228 that I use. But it's all well worth it though, because, if the station is less than about 60 miles away, and they're not broadcasting with some piss-ant wattage, I can get usable reception.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, and this is especially true for people like us, on Long Island, where the towers are spread out a bit. Because without a rotator, you would have to essentially choose which channels you want to receive, point the antenna, and say screw the rest. And this is really relevant, if you have a very high gain, directional (as hell) antenna such as the CM4228 that I use. But it's all well worth it though, because, if the station is less than about 60 miles away, and they're not broadcasting with some piss-ant wattage, I can get usable reception.



Does this on LI, less than 60 miles and useable reception statement apply apply to WNBC-DT??


----------



## dturturro

Multiple towers? Doesn't just about everything come off the Empire State Building? 4, 11 & 13 all are on the ESB combiner.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkristof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does this on LI, less than 60 miles and useable reception statement apply apply to WNBC-DT??



I receive 4-1, 4-2, and 4-3 with at least an 80 on my accurian signal strength meter (at 263 degrees). Anything below a 50 on the meter is not a stable signal. But once in a great while, NBC totally goes into the sh!tter for a short period of time.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Multiple towers? Doesn't just about everything come off the Empire State Building? 4, 11 & 13 all are on the ESB combiner.



Channels 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, and one of the thirteens come from the Empire State building. I receive these stations best at 286 degrees. Now it is shown on the FCC web site that channel 4 also comes from this tower, but I receive 4 best at 261 degrees. So, who knows wtf is going on. The other two channel 13's come from a different tower in Manhattan. Channel 21-1, 21-2, 21-3 come from Garden City, LI at about 315 degrees. Channel 55 comes from Riverhead at 70 degrees. I receive channel 8 from connecticut at 30 degrees. I also pick up some channels from New Jersey between 290-310 degrees. Of course I get some other channels in different languages (how about those three channels in chinese huh?).


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 13, WNET-DT (Over-the-Air Channel 61) transmits all of its configurations, 13.1, 13.2, etc. from the Combiner atop the Empire State Building using Channel 2's omnidirectional antenna.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Channels 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, and one of the thirteens come from the Empire State building. I receive these stations best at 286 degrees. Now it is shown on the FCC web site that channel 4 also comes from this tower, but I receive 4 best at 261 degrees. So, who knows wtf is going on. The other two channel 13's come from a different tower in Manhattan. Channel 21-1, 21-2, 21-3 come from Garden City, LI at about 315 degrees. Channel 55 comes from Riverhead at 70 degrees. I receive channel 8 from connecticut at 30 degrees. I also pick up some channels from New Jersey between 290-310 degrees. Of course I get some other channels in different languages (how about those three channels in chinese huh?).



Thanks. How far are you from the ESB? I'm in Lake Ronk and the antenna is mounted on the procerbial 10-ft pole, whch is mounted to a 2nd floor gable. When I did the adjustments via WatchHDTV the WNBC signal was so LOW that I did not attempt any position adjusments using WNBC. I had to rerun the BeyondTV seup wizard over the weekend and BeyondTv actually found what it thought was a useable WNBC signal. So I was able to watch WNBC in HD WITH a lot of drop outs. The differnence might be the lack of leaves.


I'd be more than happy to plunk down the money for a rotator if I had some confidence that it wouldn't be waste of money...


----------



## dturturro

So the only non-ESB channels are 21, 55 and 8 from CT? Just point at ESB and enjoy the HD stations.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So the only non-ESB channels are 21, 55 and 8 from CT? Just point at ESB and enjoy the HD stations.




Correct, but read the post again. If I aim the antenna to receive channel 4, all the other channels on the ESB tower suffer from poor reception. Also, I would rather be able to receive all the stations available to me in my area. And hey, you know sometimes there's a good movie on 55, and other times, my wife likes to watch the cooking shows available on the 21's, in addition to the documentaries that I sometimes find interesting. And let's not forget, that a lot of us on this forum just enjoy dicking around with this stuff for fun.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Channel 13, WNET-DT (Over-the-Air Channel 61) transmits all of its configurations, 13.1, 13.2, etc. from the Combiner atop the Empire State Building using Channel 2's omnidirectional antenna.



You may very well be correct on this point. However, I was referencing the info available from this web site:
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations 


This site supposedly uses broadcast info from the FCC circa 2005. On this site, If you look all the way to the right of each channel listing, it shows a map of the tower location for each channel. And as per this info, channel 13 in NYC is broadcast from two different locations (as seen at the bottom of the page). As such, can someone definitively verify or dispute this with first hand information?


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Correct, but read the post again. If I aim the antenna to receive channel 4, all the other channels on the ESB tower suffer from poor reception. Also, I would rather be able to receive all the stations available to me in my area. And hey, you know sometimes there's a good movie on 55, and other times, my wife likes to watch the cooking shows available on the 21's, in addition to the documentaries that I sometimes find interesting. And let's not forget, that a lot of us on this forum just enjoy dicking around with this stuff for fun.



OK, I'm assuming you get good signal quality from WNBC-DT, is that correct?


How far are you from the ESB as a point of reference?


I suppose I could work it out by triangulation, but I'm lazy...


----------



## 5w30

Now for OTA reception in NY (Brooklyn with view of lower Manhattan) ... is it best to get an antenna that rotates, as

1) Empire is the place for WNBC
4) Montclair, NJ for WNJN

Think I am out of the coverage area for all others.

??


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You may very well be correct on this point. However, I was referencing the info available from this web site:
> http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations
> 
> 
> This site supposedly uses broadcast info from the FCC circa 2005. On this site, If you look all the way to the right of each channel listing, it shows a map of the tower location for each channel. And as per this info, channel 13 in NYC is broadcast from two different locations (as seen at the bottom of the page). As such, can someone definitively verify or dispute this with first hand information?



That information is terribly out of date. The West 33rd Street location, WNET's offices and studios, is no longer used as a transmission point. The two maps you see, other than the one that shows the Empire State Building, are old and no longer applicable. When a station multi-casts, all signals emanate from the same transmission antenna, not separate ones.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *5w30* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now for OTA reception in NY (Brooklyn with view of lower Manhattan) ... is it best to get an antenna that rotates, as
> 
> 1) Empire is the place for WNBC
> 4) Montclair, NJ for WNJN
> 
> Think I am out of the coverage area for all others.
> 
> ??



More old information!!!


WABC-DT's main transmission location is on the Combiner atop the Empire State Building using Channel 2's omni-directional antenna. It moved there once the Combiner was operational.


4 Time Square is now a backup facility for WABC-DT.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkristof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, I'm assuming you get good signal quality from WNBC-DT, is that correct?
> 
> How far are you from the ESB as a point of reference?



With my Accurian receiver, I get a pristine output to my video display with a reading of greater than 50 on the signal strength meter. WNBC-DT registers at least an 80 on the signal strength meter, If my antenna is pointed in the optimal direction. And, how far am I from the ESB? Well, I am about 6 miles south of exit 52 on the LIE, so I would guess that the distance would be at least 35-40 miles.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkristof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks.I'm in Lake Ronk and the antenna is mounted on the procerbial 10-ft pole, whch is mounted to a 2nd floor gable. When I did the adjustments via WatchHDTV the WNBC signal was so LOW that I did not attempt any position adjusments using WNBC. I had to rerun the BeyondTV seup wizard over the weekend and BeyondTv actually found what it thought was a useable WNBC signal. So I was able to watch WNBC in HD WITH a lot of drop outs. The differnence might be the lack of leaves.
> 
> 
> I'd be more than happy to plunk down the money for a rotator if I had some confidence that it wouldn't be waste of money...



Obtaining the best signal reception from any channel is made extremely simple with a rotator such as the Channel Master 9521A. Just tune to the desired channel, activate your receiver's signal strength meter, and then sit on your couch and adjust for the best signal with the rotator's remote. And once you have determined the best direction for (as an example) channel 4: 268 degrees, you program the rotator to go to this position when you press 4 on the remote. In addition, you can change the antenna direction by punching in the direction in degrees on the remote, or you can move the antenna 2 degrees at a time, up or down, with the arrow buttons. All in all, I feel that it's well worth the $85, and the hour to install. Even more, My CM4228 antenna looks like something off the Mars rover. So when my nosey neighbor saw it rotating back and forth one day, he said "What the hell is that". So I told him that it was the new high accuracy doppler radar subscription weather service. Best of all, he believed me, and said "Really? How can I get that?" Boy oh boy, what a pecker head he is.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkristof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Lake Ronk and the antenna is mounted on the procerbial 10-ft pole, whch is mounted to a 2nd floor gable. The differnence might be the lack of leaves.



Water absorbs RF really well, and leaves are full of water. So leaves do make a big difference in reception quality. What antenna are you using?


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That information is terribly out of date. The West 33rd Street location, WNET's offices and studios, is no longer used as a transmission point. The two maps you see, other than the one that shows the Empire State Building, are old and no longer applicable. When a station multi-casts, all signals emanate from the same transmission antenna, not separate ones.



Thank you for clarifying this. What is the best site to obtain this up to date tower info?


----------



## SnellKrell

I don't know of one site that is totally up to date.


I've just collected information, specifically about the Combiner - couldn't wait until

it was operational since I use an indoor antenna.


Maybe others have found a reliable site.


----------



## JSWbBk

WPIX-DT is not carried on a VHF frequency. I remeber reading that it USED TO be carried on VHF Channel 12, but now it is on UHF channel 33.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Water absorbs RF really well, and leaves are full of water. So leaves do make a big difference in reception quality. What antenna are you using?



Winegard PR-9032.


Channel Master 3041DSB pre-amp on the mast, which I notice is now HALF the price I paid for it a few months ago.


WRT rotators I threw out my old roatator a few years ago, after it fell off the pole. That rotator was purchased 25-30 yrs ago.


This FREE OTA HDTV really is/was a science experiment: I just wanted to see if I could get HDTV content for "free". So far, I've spent $250-300.


I notice Lowes has the CM rotator for $78 + tax.


I guess I could breakdown and spend an extra $95 and buy a rotator and cable, but I'd like to have a warm and fuzzy that I'd be able to get WNBC-DT with a solid signal...


I noticed that your distance to the ESB on your station link was 35 miles. I'm an extra 10 miles according to antennaweb.org. I'm a few miles north of LIE exit 60..


----------



## 5w30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> More old information!!!
> 
> 
> WABC-DT's main transmission location is on the Combiner atop the Empire State Building using Channel 2's omni-directional antenna. It moved there once the Combiner was operational.
> 
> 
> 4 Time Square is now a backup facility for WABC-DT.



Thanks for the updated info. It figures, someone at WABC told me that 4 Times Square was primary.


So everyone in NYC is on the ESB. Not bad. I am line of sight to there and to WNJN Montclair.

WLIW and WLNY are over a hill and too far away, though I might get a bounce off the North Shore Towers in Lake Success.


I am planning to go HD shortly, and want a backup to my cable system's offerings.


God, using an antenna to pick up OTA TV is so '60's .. like my dad buying a tall mast to pick up Hartford's Channel 3 and 30 in the old NFL blackout days.


----------



## nikov3

i just bought a RCA Amplified Flat-Panel HDTV Antenna Model: ANT537

it picks up the hd channels great but i live near the train station so everytime a train comes by i lose signal to all hd channels.....i am only capable of using an indoor antenna, is there anything i can do to stop this from happening? or a different antenna i can use that might help? im in brooklyn(11219), any suggestions that can help will be appreciated


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *5w30* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am planning to go HD shortly, and want a backup to my cable system's offerings.



Having used Cablevision's Io and Dish satellite HD services, I would rate OTA HD picture quality -with my Accurian receiver - as equal or better than the cable service, and far superior to Dish network. In my opinion, this observation is especially true with fast moving sports broadcasts. This is probably due to the greater use of compression by the cable system, and especially the satellite service. All in all, it's too bad there isn't more programming available OTA in HD.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Having used Cablevision's Io and Dish satellite HD services, I would rate OTA HD picture quality -with my Accurian receiver - as equal or better than the cable service, and far superior to Dish network. In my opinion, this observation is especially true with fast moving sports broadcasts. This is probably due to the greater use of compression by the cable system, and especially the satellite service. All in all, it's too bad there isn't more programming available OTA in HD.



Yes. I don't have a in-house comparison to say, the DisH HD service, but the OTA DTV transport stream is ~20 Mbps, which allows the OTA broadcasters to use less compression. I also think the OTA SD DTV channels look CONSIDERABLY better than the same channels fed from DishNetwork I've had Dish for years, but have not sprung for the HD rcvr and extra monthly service. I haven't gone back to Cablevision becauue I have a grandfathered Dish DVR for which I pay ZERO dollars/month.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkristof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Winegard PR-9032.
> 
> 
> I guess I could breakdown and spend an extra $95 and buy a rotator and cable, but I'd like to have a warm and fuzzy that I'd be able to get WNBC-DT with a solid signal...



If your only concern is to receive WNBC reliably, along with the other ESB stations,

then you would probably be best served by spending your $85 on an antenna like the CM4228. If you take a look at the NET gain measurements on the following site, you would get about 4dB additional gain (2 1/2 times your present signal strength) at channel 28.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html 


Also, are you using any splitters in your coax?


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If your only concern is to receive WNBC reliably, along with the other ESB stations,
> 
> then you would probably be best served by spending your $85 on an antenna like the CM4228. If you take a look at the NET gain measurements on the following site, you would get about 4dB additional gain (2 1/2 times your present signal strength) at channel 28.
> 
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
> 
> 
> Also, are you using any splitters in your coax?



Yes ,he CM4228 does have more gain in his simulations. It's probably a good thing to try next. So far I've been able to add the antenna/mast/etc. to the house without negative spousal feedback. I was trying to avoid using the physically imposing antennas, but maybe ther's no choce.


There are no splitters in the feed, just a grounding block on the outside of the house.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkristof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes ,he CM4228 does have more gain in his simulations. It's probably a good thing to try next. So far I've been able to add the antenna/mast/etc. to the house without negative spousal feedback. I was trying to avoid using the physically imposing antennas, but maybe ther's no choce.
> 
> 
> There are no splitters in the feed, just a grounding block on the outside of the house.



I've used four different antennas, and hands down, the 4228 performs the best. And actually, it's not that large. However it is vertically oriented, which can make it more noticeable. But since it looks very different from a standard antenna, it's pretty cool, and makes people ask questions. And it can be found damn cheap here:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...=&PROD=ANC4228 


As far as the WAF is concerned, just do what I did - put it up when she's not home. She probably won't notice for quite a while, and when she does, just say "hell, thats been up for quite a while now."


----------



## harican

WABC-DT found on digital channel 45, is now showing local news in HDTV!


WABC-DT is the second local digital broadcast station to transmit local news in high definition.

WNBC-DT was the first.


Congratulations to both WNBC-DT and WABC-DT for taking such initiative.


----------



## Infominister

So, what's WCBS-DT waiting for? Maybe when they finally get around to local news in HD, and the CBS network becomes the last of the three original major networks to do their early morning news show in HD, we'll get more than three NFL football games a week in HD.


----------



## dturturro

I'm not holding my breath on that!


----------



## Dibenzylacetone

In a comparison with other HD news broadcasts, the evening news in HD on WNBC, features the best picture quality, I feel. This is especially apparent, when it's being viewed on a screen over 100". Furthermore, in respect to picture quality, I would have to say that the NBC HD news is bettered only by most HD sports broadcasts, and also Letterman. Leno, is probably a tie.


----------



## mariamaria

I just moved into the No. tip of Manhattan around 193rd Street into a building that's 23 floors (i'm on 7) high and has a rooftop antenna. There are no buildings right next to us and it is a very windy corner if that matters. I want to buy the Panasonic TC-32LX60 that has an integrated NTSC ATSC and is QAM tuner compatible. I have heard from other tenants that they don't get good reception with the building's antenna but I think they have older tvs.


Is there hope for me up here to get OTA tv - I hate the cable companies. What kind of antenna should I buy? I am trying to sort through some of these posts but I admit I am overwhelmed.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mariamaria* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just moved into the No. tip of Manhattan around 193rd Street into a building that's 23 floors (i'm on 7) high and has a rooftop antenna. There are no buildings right next to us and it is a very windy corner if that matters. I want to buy the Panasonic TC-32LX60 that has an integrated NTSC ATSC and is QAM tuner compatible. I have heard from other tenants that they don't get good reception with the building's antenna but I think they have older tvs.
> 
> 
> Is there hope for me up here to get OTA tv - I hate the cable companies. What kind of antenna should I buy? I am trying to sort through some of these posts but I admit I am overwhelmed.



Buy a Zenith Silver Sensor for about $25 and point it downtown. If you have a downtown view even better. If you want to go for a roof antenna I use a Channel Master CM4228. Again, point it downtown towards the Empire State Bldg


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harican* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WABC-DT found on digital channel 45, is now showing local news in HDTV!
> 
> 
> WABC-DT is the second local digital broadcast station to transmit local news in high definition.
> 
> WNBC-DT was the first.
> 
> 
> Congratulations to both WNBC-DT and WABC-DT for taking such initiative.



AFT since those 2 stations make more money than God


----------



## mariamaria




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Buy a Zenith Silver Sensor for about $25 and point it downtown. If you have a downtown view even better. If you want to go for a roof antenna I use a Channel Master CM4228. Again, point it downtown towards the Empire State Bldg




Thank you for responding.







I don't have access to the roof. I have a little balcony where an outdoor antenna might go but I'm thinking 7th floor might not be high enough. My windows point East, unfortunately, but this apartment is not exactly huge either. Given this info, do you think the Zenith is the way to go or is there some huge advantage to the outdoor antenna?


----------



## Bob Hawley

From Stamford, near the water, I've had decent reception for years, especially WCBS-DT, using a Winegard 9095 pointed at NYC. But over the last few weeks, the pixellation has made OTA reception unwatchable, even though the weather is fine. Last night, for the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show, it happened again, and I ended up watching it on channel 80 from the satellite. Is this happening to anyone else? Is it a problem with the combiner?


----------



## cpto

I watched the first 15 minutes or so OTA from 2-1. I didn't notice any pixellization. Because WCBS is more subject to weather conditions in my area than other NYC stations, I only watch it on DTV when it's unwatchable from 2-1 direct. Ch 80 on DTV suffers from many more blocking problems than 2-1 OTA.


Could the antenna have been moved in one of the recent storms, or squirrels biting through the cable (I've had to mend mine twice because of the varments)?


C


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mariamaria* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there hope for me up here to get OTA tv - I hate the cable companies. What kind of antenna should I buy? I am trying to sort through some of these posts but I admit I am overwhelmed.



I'm not in the city but from Northern, NJ I can tune in all NYC Digitals except WNET and WNYC with,

The RadioShack Indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna with RF Remote Control

$49.99

Model: 15-1892

Catalog #: 15-1892


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mariamaria* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you for responding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have access to the roof. I have a little balcony where an outdoor antenna might go but I'm thinking 7th floor might not be high enough. My windows point East, unfortunately, but this apartment is not exactly huge either. Given this info, do you think the Zenith is the way to go or is there some huge advantage to the outdoor antenna?



Well if you can put it on the balcony and aim it downtown give it a try with the Zenith antenna.


----------



## Nachosgrande

Through reading the thread, many of you have mentioned using a rotator to dial in the specific channels. Does this require that you manually input via remote? Since I have the DirecTivo DVR which can automatically record OTA channels, if you need to be present physically to adjust the rotator, this is may not be a viable option for me.


----------



## jaypb

....that the ticker going across the bottom of the screen during WNBC's AM news tells viewers that the "Weather Plus" channel is available on Comcast channel XXX and Patriot Media channel XXX and TWC channel XXX and Cablevision channel XXX etc....yet it NEVER TELLS viewers that the channel is also available to those with their little old internal digital tuner and trusty antenna via channel 4-2??










I thought the whole hubbub, crisis that was supposed to erupt when the analog signals shut down in the year 4000 was that folks without "digital" tv's wouldn't be able to watch TV anymore (i.e those folks without cable/satellite, who only used rabbit ears to watch TV would be out in the cold without the "digital converter box" needed to watch digital signals on an analog TV). Yet here we see a scrolling piece of {IMHO} advertising that directs cable TV viewers as to where the {useless?} Weather Plus channel is available....yet does NOTHING to tell local OTA/"rabbit ear" viewers that their new digital TV (or the TV they MAY be buying in the future) can get that channel RIGHT NOW with an antenna.


I have this conversation with friends/family members WRT local OTA channels...and the multi-casting that goes on WRT to such channels and the availability of them with a rooftop antenna and an internal tuner (or their D* HD receiver). I've even heard the well intentioned/informationally challenged folks at my local CC or BB incorrectly pass along info to potential customers who come in looking to buy a new TV WRT analog tv's vs digital/HD TV's...but I'm sure that's an inquisition for another thread










It's amazing not only how much MISINFORMATION there is out there...but also how much information just doesn't even get passed along/conveyed to the masses. Or maybe they just don't care to hear it.....










Or maybe I'm just alone in my cockeyed view of the whole ****uation......


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's amazing not only how much MISINFORMATION there is out there...but also how much information just doesn't even get passed along/conveyed to the masses. Or maybe they just don't care to hear it



Some people - like most of us on this forum - have a basic need to know things. Other people, don't really give a sh!t about anything other than watching the latest sitcom. And still others, would like to know things, but unfortunately can't comprehend anything other than the latest sitcom.


----------



## mw390




jaypb said:


> ....that the ticker going across the bottom of the screen during WNBC's AM news tells viewers that the "Weather Plus" channel is available on Comcast channel XXX and Patriot Media channel XXX and TWC channel XXX and Cablevision channel XXX etc....yet it NEVER TELLS viewers that the channel is also available to those with their little old internal digital tuner and trusty antenna via channel 4-2??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.....Funny, how nowadays nobody expects you to watch television w.o cable/satellite.


----------



## rlanza1054

Cannot pick up local PBS HDTV in New York.


I live in Astoria Queens (New York City borough). My bedroom faces the Empire State Building with a direct view. Yes, I can even see the colorful lights at night.


I just got my first HDTV with digital tune (Samsung LN-S4096D LCS 1080p), nice set!


I have cable so this is really a basic question.


I purchased a HDTV outdoor antenna from Home Depot which is a flat box type made by Janis? (it has a GE logo on it).


So far so good. The antenna worked great (actually my old rabbit ears worked as good).


I picked up almost everything I think is available with one exception that I'm puzzled over and would like some help or comments.


I can't get PBS which is normally on channel 13 in the older analog signal.


The scanning for channels with the Samsung would not pick up any HDTV signals that contained PBS programming.


As I said I picked up everything else.


Does anyone know if PBS in New York is transmitting from the Empire State Building.


As with everyone else in this thread, all used to come from the World Trade Center before 9/11 and I am wondering if PBS moved to some other location for transmitting in HDTV.


I seem to remember that PBS is located out of New Jersey but I'm not sure about that fact.


Has anyone in NYC been able to pick up the HDTV for PBS and if so did you have to do something special and which way did you point the antenna?


Is PBS transmitting their HDTV signal via 'over the air', maybe their not doing that yet?


Anyway, you get what I'm trying to solve and any info would be appreciated.


Thank Rob


----------



## adm

A strange thing happened last night to me and I am wondering if it happened to anyone else or if someone knows what happened.


I subscribe to Cablevision (Basic and family option, not IO) and I have been receiving the HD (+extra subchannel) streams (CBS,NBC, FOX, ABC, 9, 11, 13, 21) as extras w/o paying for them by adding them to my channel options manually since they are coming in and listed when doing a scan.


Last night, CBS 2.1 was non existant. Not available on my remote via 'channel up (from 2)', nor was it listed as a station coming in on the "Channels to be added" when I did a manual scan?


All others (as listed above) were there and available.


?????????

..Mark


----------



## BCCISProf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlanza1054* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cannot pick up local PBS HDTV in New York.
> 
> 
> I picked up almost everything I think is available with one exception that I'm puzzled over and would like some help or comments.
> 
> 
> I can't get PBS which is normally on channel 13 in the older analog signal.
> 
> 
> The scanning for channels with the Samsung would not pick up any HDTV signals that contained PBS programming.
> 
> 
> As I said I picked up everything else.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if PBS in New York is transmitting from the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> As
> 
> Is PBS transmitting their HDTV signal via 'over the air', maybe their not doing that yet?
> 
> 
> Anyway, you get what I'm trying to solve and any info would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thank Rob



I live in Brooklyn and have the same problem. I have a rooftop antenna, and I pick up with the Samsung DTB - H260F all the broadcasts with the exception of Channel 13. I receive 2,4,5,7,9,11 and even 51 (PBS in NJ although weakly).


If anyone has any idea of how to pick up PBS 13 I would greatly appreciate hearing about it.


----------



## i_write2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Brooklyn and have the same problem. I have a rooftop antenna, and I pick up with the Samsung DTB - H260F all the broadcasts with the exception of Channel 13. I receive 2,4,5,7,9,11 and even 51 (PBS in NJ although weakly).
> 
> 
> If anyone has any idea of how to pick up PBS 13 I would greatly appreciate hearing about it.



BCCISPROF - I live in Prospect Heights and just put up a Radio Shack U-75R ($25) on the roof. There is one tall building between the antenna and Empire but Empire sticks up just enough for me to get a shot at it. Prior to this I had a Silver Sensor in the window and got most channels except PBS. Now with this cheap directional roof antenna I'm getting everything at 90% signal including the elusive PBS HD, PBS World, and PBS Kids. It all depends on your location in relationship to Empire and the type of antenna. As "cheap" as radio shack stuff is the one good thing is that you buy, you try, you don't like it, you bring it back.


Hope this helps - PBS is out there.


----------



## BCCISProf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *i_write2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BCCISPROF - I live in Prospect Heights and just put up a Radio Shack U-75R ($25) on the roof. There is one tall building between the antenna and Empire but Empire sticks up just enough for me to get a shot at it. Prior to this I had a Silver Sensor in the window and got most channels except PBS. Now with this cheap directional roof antenna I'm getting everything at 90% signal including the elusive PBS HD, PBS World, and PBS Kids. It all depends on your location in relationship to Empire and the type of antenna. As "cheap" as radio shack stuff is the one good thing is that you buy, you try, you don't like it, you bring it back.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps - PBS is out there.




Hi!.


But I do have a rooftop antenna! And I do get all the other Broadcast Channels with > 90%... just no PBS


----------



## i_write2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi!.
> 
> 
> But I do have a rooftop antenna! And I do get all the other Broadcast Channels with > 90%... just no PBS



I understand your frustration, but you don't say if you have line of sight to Empire or where in Brooklyn you are, you don't say what kind of antenna you have on your roof (directional, MD, brand, model #) these things are more of a factor than your STB. Maybe you should ask in the hardware section for some advice on antennas that would work for you.


----------



## rlanza1054

In my case, I do have direct line of sight to the Empire State Building.


I'm going to try to just throw the old rabbit ears on it and see if I can get PBS.


It is strange that a number of us have the same issue.


My gut feeling is that PBS is not coming from the Empire State Building.


I guess I should call and see if they know directly.


Rob


----------



## JSWbBk

My understanding is that DTV 13.1 - 13.3 are being broadcast with very low signal strength (lower than any other ESB broadcaster) and that this fact, together with the relatively high UHF frequency assigned, makes it much more difficult to receive than other channels.


----------



## rlanza1054

Is that what's going on. So that would mean we really need a good antenna and a perfect aim at the Empire State Building.


Again, are we sure it's coming from that building?


Rob


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlanza1054* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that what's going on. So that would mean we really need a good antenna and a perfect aim at the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> Again, are we sure it's coming from that building?
> 
> 
> Rob




yes...it's coming from there. I was getting it off and on using a Zenith Silver Sensor about 25 miles east on Long Island. I now have a CM4228 antenna and I get it 95% of the time


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlanza1054* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cannot pick up local PBS HDTV in New York.
> 
> 
> I live in Astoria Queens (New York City borough). My bedroom faces the Empire State Building with a direct view. Yes, I can even see the colorful lights at night.



THIRTEEN is OTA on DTV channel 61... This feed is out of Newark, NJ allegedly.


Use the utility at antennaweb org and it lets you put in your address and you will see almost all the stations available in your exact address.


I'm in Brooklyn and like magic started getting the 3 Thirteen channels on Saturday. Maybe they uppped power or just finally got the regular powered indoor antenna in the right position. Even get Telemundo now too.


----------



## dturturro

Antennaweb is out of date. WNET is on ESB.


----------



## 5w30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Antennaweb is out of date. WNET is on ESB.



The FCC's "city of license" for WNET is Newark, NJ.

WNET's ancestor, a commercial station, was physically based in Newark from 1948 until 1962. Channel 13 was put on ESB in the early 50's, when all VHF stations moved there.

WNET-HD was for a time located at their HQ at W. 33rd + 10th Avenue in Manhattan until their move to the ESB.

Other examples:

WLIW is licensed to Garden City, LI, with offices and transmitter just west of exit 48 of the LIE in Plainview, LI.

WLNY is licensed to Riverhead, LI, with its offices actually in Melville, LI and transmitter in Ridge, LI.


----------



## rlanza1054

Great info!


Now that just means that I have to try getting the signal with a different antenna?


As I said, I'm going to try and rehook up my old rabbit ears.


I purchase this Digital HDTV antenna for about $35 bucks at Home Depot and it's an outdoor version but I have it mounted right now inside right at the window. We are not allowed to put antennas hanging out our windows where I live.


Thanks again.


Rob


----------



## SnellKrell

OK -


WNET-DT, although licensed to Newark (Linden) New Jersey, has been transmitting from the Empire State Building since the Combiner facility became operational.


It uses WCBS-TV's omnidirectional transmitting antenna - as does WNBC-DT, WABC-DT,

WWOR-DT and WPIX-DT.


WNET-DT transmits at a piddling 12.4kW on an extremely high channel allocation, 61.

Either of the above two - low power and high channel allocation are deadly. WNET-DT

has problems in spades!


The only reason this station will expend any additional money on its transmission facility, before a new stick is erected atop the Freedom Tower, is that come February 2009, when analogue transmission is halted, WNET-DT will stop broadcasting on analogue 13 and move its digital (61) signal to 13. How much power? Who knows? I don't.


Stations are expecting cable and satellite companies to provide the feeds; over-the-air

is not on the top of managements' lists.


----------



## rlanza1054

Yeah, I got that right too. That's why I have cable. Not allowed to get Satellite here, our builds are wired with TWC. I pretty much am OK with TWC, except for the cost.


----------



## dvdgorila`

Does TWC NYC encrypt local channels? I bought a myhd and cannot pic up any "digital" channels with qam option enabled via catv to ant2 input.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> THIRTEEN is OTA on DTV channel 61... This feed is out of Newark, NJ allegedly.
> 
> 
> Use the utility at antennaweb org and it lets you put in your address and you will see almost all the stations available in your exact address.
> 
> 
> I'm in Brooklyn and like magic started getting the 3 Thirteen channels on Saturday. Maybe they uppped power or just finally got the regular powered indoor antenna in the right position. Even get Telemundo now too.



I also get Telefutura on ch. DT-53 Don't watch it much, but I wonder if Telemundo and Telefutura air soccer in HD.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also get Telefutura on ch. DT-53 Don't watch it much, but I wonder if Telemundo and Telefutura air soccer in HD.



They don't, and believe me I've been hoping one of the Spanish networks would considering the amount of soccer they show. When I saw this summer's World Cup in HD, in English, I've been hoping it becomes a regular for these channels.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They don't, and believe me I've been hoping one of the Spanish networks would considering the amount of soccer they show. When I saw this summer's World Cup in HD, in English, I've been hoping it becomes a regular for these channels.



Thats a shame. They have plenty of sports airing usually. There is a market for it I'm sure.


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlanza1054* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cannot pick up local PBS HDTV in New York.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Has anyone in NYC been able to pick up the HDTV for PBS and if so did you have to do something special and which way did you point the antenna?



You've already gotten many comments about getting the actual signal. (FWIW, I get it intermittantly in Summit, NJ.)


Let me add another disappointment: Even if you can get the signal, the programming is *not* Ch.13's listed line-up. Rather, it is a national PBS feed. So you can't consult your favorite TV listings to see what's on. And programs like Mystery!, Masterpiece Theater, Great Performances are *not* among the programs shown.


Dave Kristol


----------



## SnellKrell

Dave -


You're absolutely right!


Many think that WNET-DT (13.1) is Channel 13 in digital - and at times High Definition.


As you explain, it is not!


Many people are disappointed and confused about the way the station promotes this channel.


It's merely the PBS digital feed!


----------



## ramonv

Telemundo will broadcast 2 telenovelas in HD in 2007.

One of them is "Zorro, the sword and the Rose" produced by SONY International and Telemundo. Both telenovelas will have English subtitles in CC3.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So you can't consult your favorite TV listings to see what's on.
> 
> Dave Kristol



You can look at a number of listings to see what is on. TitanTv for one. While your local favs are not there plenty of good programming is so it is worth getting if you can. Heck, it beats out WLIW who has NO HD programming.


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can look at a number of listings to see what is on. TitanTv for one. While your local favs are not there plenty of good programming is so it is worth getting if you can. Heck, it beats out WLIW who has NO HD programming.



I have no quarrel with the quality of programming on WNET-HD. It's just that I never know what's going to be on, because I'm unwilling to look beyond my usual source(s) of TV listings, and they only give the Ch.13 (analog) lineup. And one of my motivations for getting an HDTV was to be able to watch my Ch.13 favs in HD.










Dave Kristol


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have no quarrel with the quality of programming on WNET-HD. It's just that I never know what's going to be on, because I'm unwilling to look beyond my usual source(s) of TV listings, and they only give the Ch.13 (analog) lineup. And one of my motivations for getting an HDTV was to be able to watch my Ch.13 favs in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol



I think the program information is transmitted in the signal. When I hit the Guide button on my remote (Have an LG LCD), I actually can see the programming schedule for all the digital channels. Only problem is 2-1 and 4-1 (I think I have seen it for 4-1 before though) never seem to have their program info, but all the rest do. 7-1 likes to say Network Programming instead of the actual show, but has the accurate info all other times.


----------



## netman

Dave,


As ja2bk says the station has guide info for a day or so in the signal and while it is a bit extra work using TitanTV via the web is still pretty easy. It's lots better than not knowing.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can look at a number of listings to see what is on. TitanTv for one. While your local favs are not there plenty of good programming is so it is worth getting if you can. Heck, it beats out WLIW who has NO HD programming.



My wife has claimed the WLIW Create? channel has high resolution video. She specifically mentioned a sewing show that she promptly erased, so I did not get a chance to analyze it. I notice the BeyondTV EPG lists some WLIW HD shows. However, VideoReDo staes that neither of the two MPG streams in the TP I recorded are HD...It's all so confusing...


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkristof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My wife has claimed the WLIW Create? channel has high resolution video. She specifically mentioned a sewing show that she promptly erased, so I did not get a chance to analyze it. I notice the BeyondTV EPG lists some WLIW HD shows. However, VideoReDo staes that neither of the two MPG streams in the TP I recorded are HD...It's all so confusing...




WLIW has NO high definition programing.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WLIW has NO high definition programing.



She must have been impressed by the mild compression of the WLIW-DT sewing show compared to our usual Dish network fare. She said she could see the actual stitches for the 1st time.


----------



## jhb-snowboard

I am in upper westchester (apptox 38 miles from ESB) and receive WNET on 13.1 very consistantly with a terk slimline antenna (with amplifier) located in the attic. I use receive all the locals 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,41 fairly consistantly. but since I switched from the H20 to the HR20 (which splits the OTA signal internally to two tuners) channel 11 has been intermitant.


Didn't realized that 13-1 is the national PBS feed. PQ is very good. One of my favorite channels for displaying HD, next to discovery HD and HDnet.


----------



## hancox

This could be a function of which tuner your H20 had. Some units had a 5th-gen tuner, which is superior to just about everything out there, including the built-in in the HR20.


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have no quarrel with the quality of programming on WNET-HD. It's just that I never know what's going to be on, because I'm unwilling to look beyond my usual source(s) of TV listings, and they only give the Ch.13 (analog) lineup. And one of my motivations for getting an HDTV was to be able to watch my Ch.13 favs in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol




I DO have a quarrel. Why can't WNET "unleash" WLIW in HD? Seeing as how many of us have problems with their terrible signal from the ESB, and WLIW is a better signal for most, why not have an HD channel there? I *believe* they even have the FCC stuff all lined up, because both WLIW-DT channels are on 21-2 and 21-3, with the notable 21-1 missing (wonder why).











I'm just happy I can get CPTV from Bridgeport.


----------



## SnellKrell

WLIW-DT for a while, did broadcast in HD. But then the powers that be at WNET pulled the plug. I imagine it may well have been a financial consideration.


You're right, WNET-DT's signal from the ESB is pitifully poor. It was even worse before the move to the Combiner. One would hope that WNET would be more responsive and responsible.


Why not take one of WLIW-DT's sub-channels and simulcast WNET-DT's PBS High Definition signal??? It would serve the community so well!!!


----------



## mga56grg

I live in mid-town NY, and have line of sight to the GE building, where i understand NBC is broadcast. Unfortunately, I get no line of sight to the Empire building. i'm thinking of buying a roof antenna, but am not sure if it will be worth it without line of sight to the Empire. any suggestions?


Also - antennaweb indicates the GE and Empire buildings only 4 degrees from each other. I assume i can interpret this as guidance to get a directional antenna. Is this correct?


Lastly, do you think i'll get a lot of interferance/bounce? I live in an old brownstone apartment and a few large/tall buildings surround it. Anything i can do to minimize this? My line of sight to the GE building is only a sliver of skyline.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC-DT hasn't used the antenna atop the G.E. building since the Combiner became operative.


Yes, more than likely you will have a lot of multi-path. But, even with multi-path, you aim your antenna to receive the "bounce" signals - with digital transmission you won't experience interference - you basically either get a signal or you don't. In my apartment, I use "bounce signals for my indoor Silver Sensor antenna - no line-of-sight to the ESB.


I wish you luck.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WLIW-DT for a while, did broadcast in HD. But then the powers that be at WNET pulled the plug. I imagine it may well have been a financial consideration.
> 
> 
> You're right, WNET-DT's signal from the ESB is pitifully poor. It was even worse before the move to the Combiner. One would hope that WNET would be more responsive and responsible.
> 
> 
> Why not take one of WLIW-DT's sub-channels and simulcast WNET-DT's PBS High Definition signal??? It would serve the community so well!!!



You know what's really funny about this? Part of the justification for Ch13 buying Ch21 was that they had the financial muscle to bring HD to WLIW......


----------



## SnellKrell

Its financial muscle has atrophied!


Channel 13 has acted as if it were G.E.!


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if anyone else was up to watch the Conan replay that airs at 3am (???) via NBC-DT OTA....my HDTIVO cut off at exactly the :30 mark....and I wasn't sure if it was a transmission issue or if my Tivo was acting up. Last week I know I didn't get a few Conan/Leno OTA broadcasts because there was some sort of issue with the OTA transmission on Thursday/Friday nights last week (read about it on the Tivo Community board)


Anyone see the same thing overnight with NBC-DT OTA ???


----------



## the-sloth

i am almost positive CW was coming in great for me on 2 different boxes (DirecTV HR20-700 and DirecTV HR10-250) last week and now i'm getting a "searching for signal" on both 11-1 and 11-2. anyone else in the ny market seeing the same thing or do i have a problem?


the weird thing is that when i check the signal strength it shows 95+ signal at all times.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i am almost positive CW was coming in great for me on 2 different boxes (DirecTV HR20-700 and DirecTV HR10-250) last week and now i'm getting a "searching for signal" on both 11-1 and 11-2. anyone else in the ny market seeing the same thing or do i have a problem?
> 
> 
> the weird thing is that when i check the signal strength it shows 95+ signal at all times.



Is 11-1/2 the only local OTA channel exhibiting this behavior? I only ask because all 3 of my 10-250's this AM were tuned to local OTA channels....and all had a grey screen or a "searching for signal" bar along the bottom and my 4th 10-250 had a snowy screen that I've never seen before.


The 10-250 has a new update coming down the pike (6.3b). I know this now because one of my units actually got the update overnight....and when I turned on the TV this AM I was greeted with sound from my surround sound system....but a "snowy" picture on the DVI/HDMI input of the TV I used....and for a few minutes I thought my unit was toast....but I unplugged it and restarted it and the onscreen message told me that it had received an update...and was updating itself. Within 10 minutes I had a picture back and the unit had indeed upgraded from 6.3a to 6.3b---one of the things the upgrade is supposed to fix/cure is the ANNOYING sound dropouts on OTA channels.


So bottom line: Try a hard boot of the unit and see if 11-1/2 comes back. The oddities that all 4 of my units showed this AM lead me to believe that SOMETHING wacky happened overnight....as 3 of my units (the ones that didn't get the update apparently) were ALL tuned to a local OTA channel....and I was greeted with a grey screen. And the 4th one that DID update had snow...which I've never seen before.


I can't speak for the 20-700 receiver though....


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is 11-1/2 the only local OTA channel exhibiting this behavior? I only ask because all 3 of my 10-250's this AM were tuned to local OTA channels....and all had a grey screen or a "searching for signal" bar along the bottom and my 4th 10-250 had a snowy screen that I've never seen before.
> 
> 
> The 10-250 has a new update coming down the pike (6.3b). I know this now because one of my units actually got the update overnight....and when I turned on the TV this AM I was greeted with sound from my surround sound system....but a "snowy" picture on the DVI/HDMI input of the TV I used....and for a few minutes I thought my unit was toast....but I unplugged it and restarted it and the onscreen message told me that it had received an update...and was updating itself. Within 10 minutes I had a picture back and the unit had indeed upgraded from 6.3a to 6.3b---one of the things the upgrade is supposed to fix/cure is the ANNOYING sound dropouts on OTA channels.
> 
> 
> So bottom line: Try a hard boot of the unit and see if 11-1/2 comes back. The oddities that all 4 of my units showed this AM lead me to believe that SOMETHING wacky happened overnight....as 3 of my units (the ones that didn't get the update apparently) were ALL tuned to a local OTA channel....and I was greeted with a grey screen. And the 4th one that DID update had snow...which I've never seen before.
> 
> 
> I can't speak for the 20-700 receiver though....




unless its a new rev of 6.3, i got that update for my HR10 a couple of months back. all of my OTA channels come in great except for 11.1 and 11.2. Its just odd that when i view the signal meter for 33 (UHF) it shows a near perfect signal, yet i get a searching for signal when i tune to their mapped channels (11.1 and 11.2) and even more odd, up until yesterday 11.2 was working even though 11.1 was showing a searching for signal. same behavior on both boxes.


anyone know a number at CW to call and get confirmation their digital transmitter isn't having issues?


----------



## tbnj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i am almost positive CW was coming in great for me on 2 different boxes (DirecTV HR20-700 and DirecTV HR10-250) last week and now i'm getting a "searching for signal" on both 11-1 and 11-2. anyone else in the ny market seeing the same thing or do i have a problem?
> 
> 
> the weird thing is that when i check the signal strength it shows 95+ signal at all times.



I get the same thing with my HR10-250. However, when I use the internal tuner in my TV, I have no problem with 11.1 or 11.2.


----------



## the-sloth

thats very odd..... i'm not sure what to do, I mean its not necessarily a directv issue, but it kinda is since they control the software that allows OTA capabilities.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbnj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I get the same thing with my HR10-250. However, when I use the internal tuner in my TV, I have no problem with 11.1 or 11.2.




do you by chance have a HR20-700 in addition to your HR10? i do, and these problems seemed to have popped up soon after OTA was enabled on the HR20. i'm wondering if maybe the HR20 is feeding some noise back through the splitter and into the HR10?


i'm going to unhook the HR20 from the antenna when i get home and see what that does to the HR10.


----------



## tbnj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> do you by chance have a HR20-700 in addition to your HR10? i do, and these problems seemed to have popped up soon after OTA was enabled on the HR20. i'm wondering if maybe the HR20 is feeding some noise back through the splitter and into the HR10?
> 
> 
> i'm going to unhook the HR20 from the antenna when i get home and see what that does to the HR10.



Nope, the HR10 is my only HD sat receiver.


----------



## the-sloth

just spoke with someone in engineering at CW11. he suggested doing a rescan for OTA channels. i'll try that and report back.


----------



## tbnj

I just tried tuning to 11-1, then checking the signal strength. Interestingly, the frequency it gave the strength for was 11. (Usually, it would show the strength of the feequency the channel is actually broadcasting on. In this case, that should be 33.)


Rescanning for the channels did add them to the guide as scanned channels. (meaning no program data)


Bizzare!


----------



## monetnj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbnj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just tried tuning to 11-1, then checking the signal strength. Interestingly, the frequency it gave the strength for was 11. (Usually, it would show the strength of the feequency the channel is actually broadcasting on. In this case, that should be 33.)
> 
> 
> Rescanning for the channels did add them to the guide as scanned channels. (meaning no program data)
> 
> 
> Bizzare!



I'm seeing the exact same behavior with both of my HR10-250s and 11-1. I don't have an HR20 either. If this was just a channel mapping issue I would expect to see something on 33-1, but I just get a black screen (although no "searching for signal" message). After scanning for the channels are you able to see any actual programming?


----------



## the-sloth

yup... a rescan fixed my HR10 as well. wish i could say the same for the HR20. it doesn't have the ability to scan for OTA channels, instead it apparently relies on the guide data sent down from D* for a given market.


----------



## monetnj

After the rescan I can also now see 11-1 again. One more piece of the puzzle, the channel now identifies itself as theCW11 instead of WPIX-DT.


----------



## the-sloth

i suggest contacting the station and letting them know what you're seeing. the more complaints they get, the more likely they are to fix it.

http://cw11.trb.com/about/station/?track=schedule


----------



## tbnj

Another point: Not sure if this is significant, but the problem only started yesterday for me. I noticed that my HR10 had called in yesterday morning. (Perhaps some bad data in the download???)


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbnj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another point: Not sure if this is significant, but the problem only started yesterday for me. I noticed that my HR10 had called in yesterday morning. (Perhaps some bad data in the download???)



Read my post a few notches above WRT the NEW software upgrade that I received (6.3B....6.3A was sent down a few weeks/months ago IIRC). This upgrade is supposed to fix (amongst other things) the ANNOYING audio dropouts (last for 7-9 seconds) which I was INUNDATED with when watching 5-1 OTA.


Bad data is MOST definitely a possibility. AFA the data goes, one of my HR10's didn't record either Leno or Conan (a total of 4 shows last night) because the season passes showed NO shows were on last night....and the SP's also show NO SHOWS on over the next 10-12 days (again, incorrect). Damn strange....and as a sidenote, the HR10 that DID receive the upgrade yesterday AM lost it's season passes a few days before the reboot/upgrade yesterday AM.


So, I'm going to have to check the HR10 that didn't tape Leno/Conan to see if it updates in the next 24 hours now (to see if it matches the behavior that the updated HR10 exhibited).


Confused yet??


----------



## monetnj

I don't have 6.3b yet on either hr10, so I don't think that is it. I've seen behavior like this in the past ("losing" OTA stations) when a local OTA station changes frequencies or something about their signal and doesn't notify D* or D* is slow to update whatever tables they use to keep this info and transmit down to the HR10s. This was rampant for a little while when the NYC stations went up on the combiner. In this case, I think it has something to do with WPIX changing their station identification from WPIX-DT to theCW11. In any case, I have contacted D*, so hopefully they can get together with the CW11 folks and resolve the issue soon.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *monetnj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't have 6.3b yet on either hr10, so I don't think that is it. I've seen behavior like this in the past ("losing" OTA stations) when a local OTA station changes frequencies or something about their signal and doesn't notify D* or D* is slow to update whatever tables they use to keep this info and transmit down to the HR10s. This was rampant for a little while when the NYC stations went up on the combiner. In this case, I think it has something to do with WPIX changing their station identification from WPIX-DT to theCW11. In any case, I have contacted D*, so hopefully they can get together with the CW11 folks and resolve the issue soon.



i spoke with someone in engineering at WPIX again yesterday and he said that someone else had called in with the same problem i was reporting. he said that one of his coworkers had an HR10, so they were going to take a look into and then put a call into TMS (Tribune Media Services) and see whats going on with the PSIP data/guide information.


i agree though, either WPIX is accidentally transmitting the wrong PSIP short name, or they changed their shortname (from WPIXDT to TheCW11) and TMS hasn't gotten the change.


----------



## abater

I communicated with TMS (a sister Tribune subsidiary) this morning and they verified that their data for WPIX is correct. They have forwarded the issue off to DirecTV.


BTW, once I did a rescan I had duplicate channels on my HR10-250 DirecTV receiver too. We will get this fixed although I suspect the holiday may lengthen the resolution time.


Andy

Tribune Broadcasting (WPIX)


----------



## zagzag

Hi, I'm using an ATSC tuner card on the computer (pcHDTV 3000), and I have this problem of image corruption at the top of 4:3 programs on 720p channles (FOX, ABC).


This noticeable in the first several lines in the image and is very annoying in shows like Family Guy, where it causes the image to shift very slightly back and forth.


This is almost never a problem with 16:9 shows, although I can recall one or two instances where the top few lines were garbled (a mixture of black and gray).


I just wanted to know if anybody has this problem.


BTW, the signal I get is fairly strong, i.e. this is not a problem with corruptted blocks in random places in the picture.


Thanks.


----------



## monetnj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abater* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I communicated with TMS (a sister Tribune subsidiary) this morning and they verified that their data for WPIX is correct. They have forwarded the issue off to DirecTV.
> 
> 
> BTW, once I did a rescan I had duplicate channels on my HR10-250 DirecTV receiver too. We will get this fixed although I suspect the holiday may lengthen the resolution time.
> 
> 
> Andy
> 
> Tribune Broadcasting (WPIX)



Thanks for updating us on the situation. Looks like the issue is in the hands of those in the know now.


----------



## ed999

Hi all I am in the NYC Queens area, about 6 miles away from the Empire State. I have an RCA amplified antenna. ANT301 It also has adjustable gain control (up to 10dB).

However, I just can't seem to get PBS channel 13 in HD! Can you guys tell me if I need something stronger to get HD PBS?


I just got a new ANtenna with 45dB and still can't get 13! I really want to watch Nature/Nova. I have Channels 2 4 5 7 9 and 11 and have very good signal strength on the Samsung plasma...


Thanks for your help!!


----------



## Roger Lococco

I'm also in Queens,never was able to get 13 because it broadcasts with weak power,many people can't receive it.


----------



## spanky28

Santa brought this HD newb a Samsung DTB-H260F this year. I have it connected via component cables to a Syntax Olevia LT26HVX.


I am using a Phillips PHDTV1 Silver Sensor indoor antenna. After a couple of channel scans, I pulled in 22 channels and was blown away with the picture quality. And this is only at about 50% signal strength!! I was able to pull in all the major networks except for NBC.


These are my stats according to antennaweb.org,


DTV Antenna

Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live

Date Compass

Orientation Miles

From Frequency

Assignment

* yellow - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS NJ 324° 16.2 38

* yellow - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 56

* yellow - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 44

* yellow - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 33

* yellow - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 325° 16.6 45

* green - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN NJ 313° 16.0 36

* green - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 i NEW YORK NY 313° 16.0 30

* red - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 321° 30.0 51

* red - uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK NY 312° 13.5 24

* red - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 324° 16.2 40

* red - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 324° 16.2 61

* red - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 326° 16.5 28

* red - uhf WLIW-DT 21.2 PBS GARDEN CITY NY 62° 20.6 22

* blue - uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON NJ 316° 52.6 18

* blue - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK NJ 325° 16.6 53


Can someone interpret these figures for me as to why I'm not picking up the NBC broadcast? Will another type of indoor antenna (maybe powered) help me achieve this?


My setup is in the second floor of a two-story private home in the 11691 zip code with nary a tall building in the area.


----------



## vkristof

"I was able to pull in all the major networks except for NBC."


I wish you luck with NBC!


I acquired a CM4228 (outdoor) antenna before the holidays, specifically for receiving WNBC-DT. Neither I or Santa's elves have instlled it yet.


I'm out in central Suffolk, however.


----------



## netman

Maybe someone needs to check with NBC and have them tell us they have not changed anything in the last few months. Spanky28 can, likely, SEE the ESB from his window but he can't get it on his TV.


Anyway spanky if you look back over the thread you will see a number of people with odd NBC reception issues but you are pretty darn close compared to most of us. I would try moving the antenna around a bit more and see if any spot helps. If I was to suggest an alternate antenna it would be rooftop without a preamp. But you really should get them with the current setup. As for their location, I am beginning to wonder if they had problems (on the ESB) and moved back to their other transmitter (the one antennaweb still lists). Could such a thing be kept secret?! I am grasping here but it is very strange. As I said earlier I have given up on OTA NBC and use only the cablevision feed now.


----------



## Roger Lococco

possibly you can't pick up NBC because the reception,for me,has been f'ed up for the last week or so,(usually no problem receiving it strongly)maybe they're doing some work on the tranmitter or something?


----------



## icemannyr

Anyone else in the Northern NJ area having reception problems?


For the last two days I get little or no signal power from just about all ESB stations but Tuesday reception was fine.

The only stations I can tune in with video and audio are WCBS-DT, WABC-DT and WNJU-DT.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zagzag* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi, I'm using an ATSC tuner card on the computer (pcHDTV 3000), and I have this problem of image corruption at the top of 4:3 programs on 720p channles (FOX, ABC).
> 
> 
> This noticeable in the first several lines in the image and is very annoying in shows like Family Guy, where it causes the image to shift very slightly back and forth.



I believe you are talking about when in underscan, seeing the full video frame, the first few lines of video on FOX 4:3 programs look like they are stretched to 16:9. Yes I see that on WNYW-DT (FOX) also during 4:3 network shows.


----------



## George Molnar

Have also noticed this same thing on FOX 28 from Elkhart, Indiana using a RCA DTC-100


----------



## spanky28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spanky28* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Santa brought this HD newb a Samsung DTB-H260F this year. I have it connected via component cables to a Syntax Olevia LT26HVX.
> 
> 
> I am using a Phillips PHDTV1 Silver Sensor indoor antenna. After a couple of channel scans, I pulled in 22 channels and was blown away with the picture quality. And this is only at about 50% signal strength!! I was able to pull in all the major networks except for NBC.
> 
> 
> These are my stats according to antennaweb.org,
> 
> 
> DTV Antenna
> 
> Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
> 
> Date Compass
> 
> Orientation Miles
> 
> From Frequency
> 
> Assignment
> 
> * yellow - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS NJ 324° 16.2 38
> 
> * yellow - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 56
> 
> * yellow - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 44
> 
> * yellow - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 33
> 
> * yellow - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 325° 16.6 45
> 
> * green - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN NJ 313° 16.0 36
> 
> * green - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 i NEW YORK NY 313° 16.0 30
> 
> * red - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 321° 30.0 51
> 
> * red - uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK NY 312° 13.5 24
> 
> * red - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 324° 16.2 40
> 
> * red - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 324° 16.2 61
> 
> * red - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 326° 16.5 28
> 
> * red - uhf WLIW-DT 21.2 PBS GARDEN CITY NY 62° 20.6 22
> 
> * blue - uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON NJ 316° 52.6 18
> 
> * blue - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK NJ 325° 16.6 53
> 
> 
> Can someone interpret these figures for me as to why I'm not picking up the NBC broadcast? Will another type of indoor antenna (maybe powered) help me achieve this?
> 
> 
> My setup is in the second floor of a two-story private home in the 11691 zip code with nary a tall building in the area.



Just a follow up to my post, I am now able to pull in NBC broadcast, but it's still not perfect.


I ended up elevating my Silver Sensor antenna by propping a shoebox under it on top of my desk. Now it's about 5 feet off the floor.


It improved the signal strength on all my channels. I'm going to have to get a longer length of coax cable to find a more stable place to put my antenna.


----------



## UnnDunn

Does anyone know when or why WNBC-DT stopped broadcasting guide data? I've had my Samsung TXP3071WH with built in ATSC for about a year now, and I can't remember a time when NBC _didn't_ have guide data... until now. As far as I can remember, I noticed the guide data was gone maybe a week or two ago, and it hasn't returned since.


IS there someone I can contact at WNBC to find out what's going on?


I'm located on the north shore of Staten Island, about 10 miles from ESB, but I have no line of sight and my Philips PHDTV1 antenna is located in the basement. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of a better placement for it.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm also in Queens,never was able to get 13 because it broadcasts with weak power,many people can't receive it.



I'm out in Nassau and get 13 pretty reliably. Others in Suffolk have also reported sucess. if you're having problems in Queens it's not so much the weak power that 13 transmits on, but multipath issues. Have you tried a rotor?


----------



## SnellKrell

I disagree.


When you have 13 using the lowest power of any NYC station on the Empire State Building, 12.4kW -and add into the mix that WNET-DT transmits on the highest frequency - Channel 61. Put those two elements together and it's disaster. It gives you the most difficult station to receive.


Yes, and multipath makes the above problems even worse.


To put things in perspective, many have complained that WNBC-DT gives them reception problems. This station (4) has the lowest frequency allocation from the ESB - Channel 28 and transmits with 200.2kW.


I'm amazed that more people don't have problems with 13. Consider yourself very, very

fortunate!


----------



## UnnDunn

I have _zero_ signal on WNET-DT (either on 61 or 13.) None. My TV doesn't even register it as an active channel. And I'm 10 miles away.


----------



## UnnDunn

And would you look at that, Guide Data is back on WNBC-DT.


----------



## mrsat1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have _zero_ signal on WNET-DT (either on 61 or 13.) None. My TV doesn't even register it as an active channel. And I'm 10 miles away.




My location is in Seaford, NY not to far from Levitown (near Hemstead Tpke). I am

using a CM 3016 combo Vhf/Uhf going thru a ASKA 25db amplifier with a variable

attenuator. Using dish network vip 622 hd receiver. I get a ss of 91 for Wnet (61)

with no drop outs at all for almost 1 year!


My suggestion is inquire using an amplifier (got the aska from Stark Electronics. )The amp must be connected to a outlet, and it can be adjusted via the adjustable

pot from 0 to +25 db, when adjusting the pot ck the ss from any channel and make sure that the ss is fairly eq'd and not over driven. I'm even using a radio

shack gold plated 2 way splitter, each with a -3.5 db loss...splitting between 2 tv's. Fot the record WNET is on 61 until 2009 when WNET goes back to Vhf 13.


Hope this helps.......rolou21.


----------



## rlanza1054




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Brooklyn and have the same problem. I have a rooftop antenna, and I pick up with the Samsung DTB - H260F all the broadcasts with the exception of Channel 13. I receive 2,4,5,7,9,11 and even 51 (PBS in NJ although weakly).
> 
> 
> If anyone has any idea of how to pick up PBS 13 I would greatly appreciate hearing about it.




Update: Today, I purchased at Home Depot the cheapest HDTV antenna, cost $15.


I came home with the idea that I was just going to return it and I can't believe it.


It picked up all 3 HDTV PBS channels. The signal was low, but it was there and of course the picture was perfect. Gotta love HDTV.


So with that I had the other antenna do a research and it just could not pick up those channels. That HDTV antenna also gotten at Home Depot was $40 bucks.


Just don't get it, the cheap stuff really does work at times much better.


Wow! That's all!



Rob


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm out in Nassau and get 13 pretty reliably. Others in Suffolk have also reported sucess. if you're having problems in Queens it's not so much the weak power that 13 transmits on, but multipath issues. Have you tried a rotor?



I'm in an apartment building,no access to the roof,actually I think my pretty good reception in general is due to multipath reflections.


----------



## zagzag




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe you are talking about when in underscan, seeing the full video frame, the first few lines of video on FOX 4:3 programs look like they are stretched to 16:9. Yes I see that on WNYW-DT (FOX) also during 4:3 network shows.



So, is this a corruption introduced by the broadcaster?

It just seems odd to me that they haven't taken care of that by now.


----------



## UnnDunn

Has anyone noticed an audio problem on WNYW-DT 5.2? It's just the WWOR simulcast, but it has this constant clicking and distortion on it which makes it almost unwatchable as a substitute for when I can't get WWOR-DT.


----------



## GoldenBoy

What's the latest word on the problems with the guide information for WPIX-DT (The CW 11) and the HR10-250 Tivo? I'm still not seeing any guide information for the ones where the signal comes through and getting duplicates in my channel listings.


----------



## zagzag




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed an audio problem on WNYW-DT 5.2? It's just the WWOR simulcast, but it has this constant clicking and distortion on it which makes it almost unwatchable as a substitute for when I can't get WWOR-DT.



I recorded about an hour worth of paid advertisments yesterday, skimmed through it, and didn't notice any issues with the sound.


On the other hand, I did notice the same corruption at the top of the image, just like I described about FOX and ABC. Honestly, I don't know what's the problem anymore -- is it the players I'm using, or are these network incapable of putting a 4:3 show in a larger canvas without corrupting the first few lines?


----------



## jhb-snowboard

*WPIX vs CW11*

I am still exhibiting the dual 11-1 and 11-2 problems with WPIX. The direct HR20 does not pick up the dual channels, only the one with no image or audio. The H20 picks up the duplicate 11-1 and 11-2. Image and auddio are visible on 11-1 "CW11" and 11-2 "the tube" . Haven't tried the tuner on the Samsung plasma yet.


----------



## icemannyr

I moved my antenna to the top of a high book shelf and now I can get a good signal on every NYC area channel except for WNET-DT 61, WPXN-DT 30 and WNYE-DT 24.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else in the Northern NJ area having reception problems?
> 
> 
> For the last two days I get little or no signal power from just about all ESB stations but Tuesday reception was fine.
> 
> The only stations I can tune in with video and audio are WCBS-DT, WABC-DT and WNJU-DT.


----------



## icemannyr

Actually you are not supposed to see the very ends of the image. That's why TVs have a bit of overscan on them. The problem is if you are watching with a TV tuner or TV that lets you view the full screen (underscan) you will sometimes get stuff at the top and bottom of the screen. I don't think the issue with FOX is an issue on our end. It's an issue with the way FOX is upconverting their non HD programming. It seems like the first few lines of video are being stretched to fill the 16:9 frame. My only suggestion would be to post a still frame in the HDTV Progamming section of the forum and see if anyone from FOX can provide an answer.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zagzag* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I recorded about an hour worth of paid advertisments yesterday, skimmed through it, and didn't notice any issues with the sound.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I did notice the same corruption at the top of the image, just like I described about FOX and ABC. Honestly, I don't know what's the problem anymore -- is it the players I'm using, or are these network incapable of putting a 4:3 show in a larger canvas without corrupting the first few lines?


----------



## mflaster

I'm trying to pick up CBS on 56 with my Hipix. I've watched CBS lots of times before. I get no signal. Yet I'm getting ABC, FOX, NBC, etc. I've futzed with the antenna, but nothing.


I haven't tried to pick up CBS in awhile... Could this be some kind of software problem with the Hipix? Or is there something wrong with CBS now? Or is it transmitting from somewhere else?


Oh well, I guess I'll watch the Jets in SD...










Mike


----------



## icemannyr

I'm in Northern, NJ and getting a good signal from WCBS-DT.


----------



## mflaster

I don't really understand the technical details of the HD stations, but I suspect my Hipix might be confused about some of the parameters of CBS. It shows "56" and then 0x11 / 0x14.


CBS is still 56, right?


Does anyone know if 0x11 and 0x14 is correct for NY, or what they mean?


----------



## zagzag




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mflaster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't really understand the technical details of the HD stations, but I suspect my Hipix might be confused about some of the parameters of CBS. It shows "56" and then 0x11 / 0x14.
> 
> 
> CBS is still 56, right?
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if 0x11 and 0x14 is correct for NY, or what they mean?




Yeah, CBS is 56.


The 0x11 & 0x14 are PIDs (Program IDs) in the MPEG Transport Stream, one for the video and one for the audio. However, the numbers I see in the stream are different: 0x31 and 0x34.


----------



## mflaster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zagzag* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, CBS is 56.
> 
> 
> The 0x11 & 0x14 are PIDs (Program IDs) in the MPEG Transport Stream, one for the video and one for the audio. However, the numbers I see in the stream are different: 0x31 and 0x34.



Thanks for the info.


Where is CBS transmitting from? The same place as NBC or FOX or something else?


The obvious problem would be that my antenna isn't picking up the signal properly. With no signal, I imagine it wouldn't be able to determing the PIDs... But if I'm getting , then I'd think it'd have to be a software problem...


And even if the hipix had the wrong PIDs, I imagine it would still show some signal strength - it just might not display any picture...


----------



## zagzag




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My only suggestion would be to post a still frame in the HDTV Progamming section of the forum and see if anyone from FOX can provide an answer.



Thanks; I'll take the issue there.


----------



## zagzag




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mflaster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> Where is CBS transmitting from? The same place as NBC or FOX or something else?
> 
> 
> The obvious problem would be that my antenna isn't picking up the signal properly. With no signal, I imagine it wouldn't be able to determing the PIDs... But if I'm getting , then I'd think it'd have to be a software problem...
> 
> 
> And even if the hipix had the wrong PIDs, I imagine it would still show some signal strength - it just might not display any picture...



Check http://www.antennaweb.org/ for direction of the antenna relative to where you live.


I'd say you're right: first get a sufficiently strong signal, and then worry about the PIDs.


----------



## SnellKrell

antennaweb continues to show incorrect information.


WABC-DT as the other stations that were mentioned, CBS, NBC and Fox, all emanate from the Empire State Building.


The Web site, beside being out of date with much information, is also incredibly conservative.

Their words, not mine, when I complained that according to the site I should not be able to receive *any* digital stations. When in fact, I receive, depending on the day, about 15 digital stations - not including sub-channels. So take the Web site with a big grain of salt.


----------



## Roger Lococco

reception is completely f'ed up today,no signal on ABC-DT,other stations seem very poor as well.


----------



## BCCISProf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And would you look at that, Guide Data is back on WNBC-DT.




I'm not getting any Guide Data on WNBC-DT for the last few days. Can anyone please verify this?


----------



## jhb-snowboard

Spoke with Directv tech today about the continuing wpix, 11-1 and 11'2 problem. Received the usual inane questions, in the antenna connected, have you rebooted, etc. Finally asked for a supervisor and explained the problem. He finally admitted that there is a either a problem with the data base, but he doesn't see a solution in the near future. He basically said I we just have to live with it. Asked about whether they the tuners are capable of scanning, He had no idea!


----------



## UnnDunn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not getting any Guide Data on WNBC-DT for the last few days. Can anyone please verify this?



It was off for a couple of days after I posted that, but it's back today.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhb-snowboard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Spoke with Directv tech today about the continuing wpix, 11-1 and 11'2 problem. Received the usual inane questions, in the antenna connected, have you rebooted, etc. Finally asked for a supervisor and explained the problem. He finally admitted that there is a either a problem with the data base, but he doesn't see a solution in the near future. He basically said I we just have to live with it. Asked about whether they the tuners are capable of scanning, He had no idea!



this should be working now.... it is on both my HR20 and HR10.


----------



## JSWbBk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed an audio problem on WNYW-DT 5.2? It's just the WWOR simulcast, but it has this constant clicking and distortion on it which makes it almost unwatchable as a substitute for when I can't get WWOR-DT.



Yes, I have noticed this too. EVERY TIME I ever tuned into 5.2 it always had terrible audio and was never watchable. The quality improves slightly if I play the audio through the HDTV speakers instead of the A/V receiver, but it is still unusable.


That channel is just a stretched out SD version of 9.1, but it would be nice to have it available as a backup. Too bad.


----------



## nyc-pchdtv3000

I have no signal from WNET in the last two days. Is the transmitter down?


All of the other ESB stations are steady and strong. I am about 6mi from the ESB with line of sight access using a roof mounted antenna.


Michael


----------



## abater

WPIX Viewers,


With the help of a number of different folks at Tribune Media Services and DirecTV we finally got to the bottom of the mapping problem and the errant entry in DirecTV's database was corrected earlier today. I verified that this is the case on my own HR10-250 receiver late this afternoon.


A total rescan removes the duplicate entries leaving the two correct WPIX-DT main and Tube channel entries. (Actually after the new guide download and before the rescan the dupes had video and audio too.)


I do note that I had to reboot my receiver later this evening as it was confused and wouldn't tune to some other satellite channels. Apparently receiving a new guide download taxes it a little more than I would have imagined.


Andy

WPIX-Tribune


----------



## Signalseeker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spanky28* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Santa brought this HD newb a Samsung DTB-H260F this year. I have it connected via component cables to a Syntax Olevia LT26HVX.
> 
> 
> I am using a Phillips PHDTV1 Silver Sensor indoor antenna. After a couple of channel scans, I pulled in 22 channels and was blown away with the picture quality. And this is only at about 50% signal strength!! I was able to pull in all the major networks except for NBC.
> 
> 
> These are my stats according to antennaweb.org,
> 
> 
> DTV Antenna
> 
> Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
> 
> Date Compass
> 
> Orientation Miles
> 
> From Frequency
> 
> Assignment
> 
> * yellow - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS NJ 324° 16.2 38
> 
> * yellow - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 56
> 
> * yellow - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 44
> 
> * yellow - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK NY 324° 16.2 33
> 
> * yellow - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 325° 16.6 45
> 
> * green - uhf WNJU-DT 36 TEL LINDEN NJ 313° 16.0 36
> 
> * green - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 i NEW YORK NY 313° 16.0 30
> 
> * red - uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 321° 30.0 51
> 
> * red - uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK NY 312° 13.5 24
> 
> * red - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 324° 16.2 40
> 
> * red - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 324° 16.2 61
> 
> * red - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 326° 16.5 28
> 
> * red - uhf WLIW-DT 21.2 PBS GARDEN CITY NY 62° 20.6 22
> 
> * blue - uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON NJ 316° 52.6 18
> 
> * blue - uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK NJ 325° 16.6 53
> 
> 
> Can someone interpret these figures for me as to why I'm not picking up the NBC broadcast? Will another type of indoor antenna (maybe powered) help me achieve this?
> 
> 
> My setup is in the second floor of a two-story private home in the 11691 zip code with nary a tall building in the area.




Spanky sorry for the delayed resposne. I'm in Long Valley and can not get WNBC. I basically get everything else strong except NBC and WPIX. It appears anyone in a WSW line of sight of the ESB seems to have recpetion problems with NBC. I know of posts in the past that complained about no recpetion in Flanders, Sucassana, Dove, Whippany etc. Look at the tramnsmission pattern and I believe their signal is weakest in our direction.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Signalseeker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Spanky sorry for the delayed resposne. I'm in Long Valley and can not get WNBC. I basically get everything else strong except NBC and WPIX. It appears anyone in a WSW line of sight of the ESB seems to have recpetion problems with NBC. I know of posts in the past that complained about no recpetion in Flanders, Sucassana, Dove, Whippany etc. Look at the tramnsmission pattern and I believe their signal is weakest in our direction.



"Transmission pattern" should not be the problem.


Both WNBC-DT and WPIX-DT use Channel 2's (WCBS-DT) omni-directional antenna - the Combiner Project atop the ESB. With an omni-directional signal there should not be any specific area being served with a weaker signal.


I'm stumped - line-of-sight and no tall buildings!


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abater* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WPIX Viewers,
> 
> 
> With the help of a number of different folks at Tribune Media Services and DirecTV we finally got to the bottom of the mapping problem and the errant entry in DirecTV's database was corrected earlier today. I verified that this is the case on my own HR10-250 receiver late this afternoon.
> 
> 
> A total rescan removes the duplicate entries leaving the two correct WPIX-DT main and Tube channel entries. (Actually after the new guide download and before the rescan the dupes had video and audio too.)
> 
> 
> I do note that I had to reboot my receiver later this evening as it was confused and wouldn't tune to some other satellite channels. Apparently receiving a new guide download taxes it a little more than I would have imagined.
> 
> 
> Andy
> 
> WPIX-Tribune




Yup. mine started working a couple days ago.... A BIG thank you to all that were involved resolving the issue!~


----------



## RMSko

I live in Westfield about 30 miles from the Empire State Building. My OTA signal strength is 100% on both CBS and ABC and it doesn't jump around at all on those two stations. On both Fox and NBC, my signal strength ranges from a high of 100% to a low of about 86. I know that an 86 is still a good signal, but I was wondering whether this "signal jumping" is normal, particularly since it only happens on two stations. Is there anything that can be done about it? BTW - I'm watching OTA through a DTV HR20 HD DVR.


----------



## SnellKrell

The differences in signal strength for different stations at different times can be due to:


Channel Frequency

Power

Temperature

Humidity

Rain, Snow or Clear Weather

Leaves on Trees

Objects in the way of line-of-sight - Buildings, Trees, Hills, Mountains, etc.


You name it and digital UHF reception can and will be affected.


----------



## zagzag




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSWbBk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I have noticed this too. EVERY TIME I ever tuned into 5.2 it always had terrible audio and was never watchable. The quality improves slightly if I play the audio through the HDTV speakers instead of the A/V receiver, but it is still unusable.
> 
> 
> That channel is just a stretched out SD version of 9.1, but it would be nice to have it available as a backup. Too bad.



I think you guys are having some equipment issues, since I see no problems: I just recorded 10 minutes, and played it via the VLC player on my computer.


Also, I think that your TV is the one doing the stretching, since the channel itself has a 4:3 format @ 640x480 resolution.


----------



## funko

Hi everyone,


I'm in northwestern Queens, and have been getting great HDTV OTA reception since we got our HDTV over a year ago.


However, for the past 5-6 days we've totally lost all HDTV/DTV channels, the TV is showing strong reception in the little bar that shows signal strength, but the TV will display "no signal" in the frame. The UHF/VHF (not sure about this terminology, but older stations) are still working like they used to.


I tried to make sure no weird setting was touched, and couldnt find anything.


i tried both manually and auto scanning the channels all over again with no luck


TV Guide still seems to be updating.


any ideas? is OTA DTV down in NYC?


any help is much appreciated


----------



## JSWbBk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zagzag* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you guys are having some equipment issues, since I see no problems: I just recorded 10 minutes, and played it via the VLC player on my computer.
> 
> 
> Also, I think that your TV is the one doing the stretching, since the channel itself has a 4:3 format @ 640x480 resolution.



I think you're right about the stretching. My TV must be set to stretch 4:3 SD broadcasts (but not 4:3 HD broadcasts).


However, since 5.2 is the only channel with the audio problem, I'm not sure that equipment is to blame. If you receive the channel fine, then perhaps it's my reception or even some kind of interference (is that possible w/a DTV signal?).


----------



## spanky28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *funko* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> I'm in northwestern Queens, and have been getting great HDTV OTA reception since we got our HDTV over a year ago.
> 
> 
> However, for the past 5-6 days we've totally lost all HDTV/DTV channels, the TV is showing strong reception in the little bar that shows signal strength, but the TV will display "no signal" in the frame. The UHF/VHF (not sure about this terminology, but older stations) are still working like they used to.
> 
> 
> I tried to make sure no weird setting was touched, and couldnt find anything.
> 
> 
> i tried both manually and auto scanning the channels all over again with no luck
> 
> 
> TV Guide still seems to be updating.
> 
> 
> any ideas? is OTA DTV down in NYC?
> 
> 
> any help is much appreciated



I'm in southeastern Queens and my OTA reception has been fine.


This is a bit off-topic, but where can I find RG6 twist on f-connectors and couplers cheap locally? I have a roof mounted antenna from the 70's, but the coax line running from it into my room has been clipped to a 4" nub.


I want to connect my Samsung DTB-H260F tuner to it. Right now, I'm using an indoor Silver Sensor with it and I'm not receiving NBC. I want to see if there's any gain with the outdoor antenna.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spanky28* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in southeastern Queens and my OTA reception has been fine.
> 
> 
> This is a bit off-topic, but where can I find RG6 twist on f-connectors and couplers cheap locally? I have a roof mounted antenna from the 70's, but the coax line running from it into my room has been clipped to a 4" nub.
> 
> 
> I want to connect my Samsung DTB-H260F tuner to it. Right now, I'm using an indoor Silver Sensor with it and I'm not receiving NBC. I want to see if there's any gain with the outdoor antenna.




Home Depot


----------



## SnellKrell

I'm surprised you haven't check out Radio Shack. I would imagine there is one near you.


Catalog #278-228.


$1.99


I would imagine that the outdoor antenna, if not totally corroded, will give you stronger signals.


----------



## Signalseeker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Transmission pattern" should not be the problem.
> 
> 
> Both WNBC-DT and WPIX-DT use Channel 2's (WCBS-DT) omni-directional antenna - the Combiner Project atop the ESB. With an omni-directional signal there should not be any specific area being served with a weaker signal.
> 
> 
> I'm stumped - line-of-sight and no tall buildings!




Yeah I initially thought tall building as well but if that were the case I doubt I would get CBS @ >80% signal?? My home is @ 1,060' elevation I doubt buildings are the issue. Perhaps multipath interference but then from where? I reread Spanky's post he is not in line with th problem areas I saw Rockaway in his info and obviously missed it was Rockaway, NY. Thank you.


----------



## zagzag




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSWbBk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you're right about the stretching. My TV must be set to stretch 4:3 SD broadcasts (but not 4:3 HD broadcasts).
> 
> 
> However, since 5.2 is the only channel with the audio problem, I'm not sure that equipment is to blame. If you receive the channel fine, then perhaps it's my reception or even some kind of interference (is that possible w/a DTV signal?).



What you refer to 4:3 HD is basically 16:9 HD with the SD picture put in the middle, so tecnically there is no need for stretching.


I think that bad reception would affect the picture even more than the sound; after all, a lot more bits are used for the video stream in comparison to the audio stream.


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *funko* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> I'm in northwestern Queens, and have been getting great HDTV OTA reception since we got our HDTV over a year ago.
> 
> 
> However, for the past 5-6 days we've totally lost all HDTV/DTV channels, the TV is showing strong reception in the little bar that shows signal strength, but the TV will display "no signal" in the frame. The UHF/VHF (not sure about this terminology, but older stations) are still working like they used to.
> 
> 
> I tried to make sure no weird setting was touched, and couldnt find anything.
> 
> 
> i tried both manually and auto scanning the channels all over again with no luck
> 
> 
> TV Guide still seems to be updating.
> 
> 
> any ideas? is OTA DTV down in NYC?
> 
> 
> any help is much appreciated



I've been having weird reception problems(on stations with normally strong,steady reception) for the last few weeks,perhaps it's weather related or transmitter work,who knows.


----------



## tarius1210

Can someone help me out....I live in Brooklyn (11239), Starrett City to be exact. I am in a apartment building which is surrounded by other buildings and trees with no line of sight to the ESB. The only HD channels I can pick up are WWOR (9.1) & WNYW (5.1) with a signal strength of about 85%-95% (at night). I have read so many posts of people in Long Island who can recieve most of the HD channels in NY, but how come I can only recieve two? I am only 8 - 10 miles away from the ESB. I am currently using a Zenith Indoor Antenna and I have no access to the roof in my building. I have tried many amplified antennas and was able to pick up WNJN-DT (51.1), WXTV-DT (41.1), and WLIW-DT (21.2) but not CBS, NBC, ABC, or CW11. How was I able to pick channels on Long Island and New Jersey but not in Manhattan? Why is the signal strength for FOX and My9 so high for me but for the other channels (which also broadcast out of Manhattan) non-existent? Can someone please help me out


----------



## Roger Lococco

unfornately in a tall apartment building,your antenna choices are extremely limited.the reason Fox and 9 come in so well is that they're the ''strongest" stations broadcasting from the ESB.you are receiving NJN and 21 because of multipath reflections off the other apartment buildings,I receive NJN in the same way,even though the transmitter is fairly distant,I can receive it with only 20s on the signal meter.


----------



## tarius1210

So would u say I am stuck with just 2 HD channels? Will CBS, NBC, ABC, or CW11 ever boost their signals to those of FOX and My9?


----------



## SnellKrell

It is very doubtful that any of the stations currently broadcasting from the ESB will invest any additional money in that facility.


We'll all have to wait for the Freedom Tower!


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tarius1210* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So would u say I am stuck with just 2 HD channels?



it seems that way,a longshot would be to keep trying out antennas,but we all know what a pain it is to try them out and return them.


----------



## tarius1210

Thanks guys


----------



## n2ubp

Could you find a friend in another nearby building that has a clear shot to your building and to ESB, take two directional antennas, connect them together, aim one at the ESB, aim the other at your location, if you aimed at at your friend antenna pointing towars you would you then be able to receive a signal ? I've heard it done with 802.11G freqs, wonder if it would work with UHF ?


----------



## tarius1210

Forget it guys, I finally figured it out through two days of trial and error. All I did was connect my digital cable (from Cablevision) directly into my DVICO capture card and did a scan for all digital channels. The capture card picked up all of the local HD digital channels and I am finally able to capture them. Thanks anyways guys you really helped me out. So I don't need an antenna after all....thank God. I thought I would be stuck with an $150 HD capture card that only picked up 2 HD channels.


----------



## BwanaZulia

Is this a good place to report that I have a DirecTV Tivo outage in New York City? I want to confirm whether it is me or others.


Thanks,

BZ


----------



## gpg

The NY local HD channels are working for me on DirecTV.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BwanaZulia* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is this a good place to report that I have a DirecTV Tivo outage in New York City? I want to confirm whether it is me or others.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> BZ




no problems here.... MPEG4 HD locals on D* are up, OTA HD locals are up and MPEG2 HD locals (80, 82, 86 & 88)are up.


----------



## digital-kid

How far can you be from NYC and still receive OTA. I live in Warwick, NY, 44 miles from the Empire state building. Is it possible, with a good antenna, to receive the digital channels. I don't want to go through the expense if it is for nothing.


----------



## SnellKrell

In depends on so many variables.


The main one, obstructions between your home and the ESB.


The higher you can mount an antenna, the better.


Look around in your neighborhood. Do you see other homeowners with antennas?


Talk to people, ask questions.


Are there local TV stores where they install antennas?


What about going into Radio Shack?


Wish you well.


----------



## the-sloth

just order from a place that allows returns... the people at antennas direct are very easy to work with and can get you set up with a nice long range antenna (probably a DB8) and if it doesn't work they should allow you to return it (i know they have in the past). pick up a mount (chimney, eaves, etc..) and a mast from radio shack (should be no more than $35 for both and you're good to go. if it doesn't work all of those should be returnable.


but like gary said... it really is a crap shoot.


----------



## michaelk

I think I'm like 48 miles (in the other direction) and I'm touch and go with an ATIC antenna. Just moving it up and down a foot or 2 can make a big differnce. So If I mounted it up high on my roof, I think I'd be OK.


So it's possible, but as Gary points out theirs a million variables so there are no certainty's....


----------



## n2ubp

Do you live on a hill top in Warwick or in town ?

I live near exit 3 on I-84, Middletown, NY and pickup HD for 2,5,7,9,11,31,50,62 and more.

13 comes in good when the weather is right, 4 is just too weak.


----------



## Dibenzylacetone




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *digital-kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How far can you be from NYC and still receive OTA. I live in Warwick, NY, 44 miles from the Empire state building. Is it possible, with a good antenna, to receive the digital channels. .




My home (on Long Island) is located approximately 40 miles from the Empire State Building, and I receive all the channels being transmitted from this tower reliably. Even more, If I use my antenna rotator, I can receive a few channels from New Jersey and Connecticut. But for the best reception at this distance, you have to use a good fringe rated antenna (mounted on your roof) and a preamplifier, along with the shortest possible length of high quality coaxial cable. In my case, the system is comprised of a ChannelMaster CM4228 8 bay UHF antenna and a CM7777 preamplifier. And, I have the antenna mounted with a 6' RadioShack mast near the lowest part of my roofline. If I desired, I could gain about 10' in antenna height by mounting the antenna to the chimney, but the current system performance is more than satisfactory as is.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *digital-kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't want to go through the expense if it is for nothing.



If you already own a receiver, or your TV is equipped with an OTA digital tuner then you could purchase the CM4228 and the CM7777 for about $122.00 + shipping here:
http://www.solidsignal.com/ 


In addition, if you are going to mount an antenna, you can install a top quality rotator for about $85.00, which can be very helpful for fringe area reception. As an example, in my system, the antenna orientation that results in the highest signal strength for channel 4 WNBC, differs by about 10 degrees from the orientation that works best with the other channels that are also being transmitted from the ESB tower. And I have to admit, this is a little weird, but channel 4 is not reliable unless I change the orientation as described - even though all the channels originate from the same tower. Also, one other aspect of OTA reception that makes it all worth the effort, is the fantastic HD picture quality attainable. And this quality, is in comparison with some other cable or satellite HD broadcasts that tend to be less satisfying, especially with sports broadcasts.


----------



## n2ubp

Hopefully this small photo of my OTA antenna setup will show up with this message.


Steve

Orange County

Middletown, NY


----------



## digital-kid

Steve, you can get all locals? If so that is great! Middletown is farther away then I am.


----------



## digital-kid

Sorry, I see you above post. I live near Florida, NY. In a flat area. No major hills but I don't know my elevation.


----------



## nyc-pchdtv3000

WNET anyone??


I posted earlier this month. Despite a LOS view of the ESB (about six miles) and excellent reception of WABC, WNBC, WCBS, WNYW, WPIX, WWOR and the Univision stations (and probably others I haven't bothered with) I have no signal from WNET. This station worked decently (though the poorest of thee bunch) until early in January.


Is anybody receiving a signal? Have they changed transmitters or frequency? Insights and speculation are welcome.


----------



## billyparrott

I have a Sylvania 6842PE with a Sansung DBTH260F HDTV receiver to catch local HD air stations. My first try with an antenna (a cheap powered one from Radio Shack) picked up 14-18 stations, but no CBS (2.1) or PBS. All other stations came in very well with the antenna pointed towards the Empire State Building, as per requested by antennaweb. I then purchased a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna. I am getting a much stronger signal on all stations, am able to catch 18 total, but still no CBS or PBS. I am pretty sure the CBS signal is coming from the Empire State Building (at least from the same direction as Fox, ABC, NBC, etc... according to antennaweb). Maybe the CBS signal is weaker? Is anyone else in Brooklyn (Clinton Hills area) having similar problems. I've tried aiming the antenna in every possible direction to increase the CBS signal. Again, I am able to pick up all the other major stations, but CBS is a "weak or no signal". I apologize in advance for my lack of technical terminology here. I am a new to all this. Any information or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## michaelk

actually pretty much eveyone but fox is using space on CBS' antenna. So in theory if you can get nbc, abc then you should get cbs. Of course there are a million variable.


Maybe the PSIP data is bad- if you tune to 56-1 does that help?


----------



## Infominister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *michaelk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> actually pretty much eveyone but Fox is using space on CBS' antenna. So in theory if you can get NBC, ABC, then you should get CBS.



Not really, and as you note there are variables, such as different power levels for the different stations on the combiner. NBC has a very weak signal.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *billyparrott* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a Sylvania 6842PE with a Sansung DBTH260F HDTV receiver to catch local HD air stations. My first try with an antenna (a cheap powered one from Radio Shack) picked up 14-18 stations, but no CBS (2.1) or PBS. All other stations came in very well with the antenna pointed towards the Empire State Building, as per requested by antennaweb. I then purchased a Terk HDTVa indoor antenna. I am getting a much stronger signal on all stations, am able to catch 18 total, but still no CBS or PBS. I am pretty sure the CBS signal is coming from the Empire State Building (at least from the same direction as Fox, ABC, NBC, etc... according to antennaweb). Maybe the CBS signal is weaker? Is anyone else in Brooklyn (Clinton Hills area) having similar problems. I've tried aiming the antenna in every possible direction to increase the CBS signal. Again, I am able to pick up all the other major stations, but CBS is a "weak or no signal". I apologize in advance for my lack of technical terminology here. I am a new to all this. Any information or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!



That is strange. 2 is one of the channels I get WITHOUT even plugging in the powered antenna I use. 5 & 7 are the others. I'm in Flatbush area.


----------



## michaelk

OOOHHHH- Made me think.


the problem could be that the cbs signal is the strongest (since it's their antenna)- so if guys close in amplify it you might wind up overpowering the tuner and it will look as if it's not there.


billyparrot- where are you located.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *s2silber* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not really, and as you note there are variables, such as different power levels for the different stations on the combiner. NBC has a very weak signal.




agreed- a million variables- was just speaking in general terms for MOST people in the signal's footprint (being the largest DMA- even if those of us with weird situations likely could account for hundreds of thousannds or millons- I can get Fox and CBS but not the others too out here at the fringe). Sorry if i wasn't so clear.


Of course everyone is likely to have a differnt experience.


One funny(as in odd) bit are the reports that aiming the antenna off to the side a bit can get in NBC but not the others.


----------



## billyparrott

thanks for all the info.

i am in the clinton hill/bed-stuy area of brooklyn.

zip code 11216


i'll try 56-1 tonight when i get home.

...have to try and resolve this before the superbowl...


----------



## michaelk

looks like the terk is amplified?


So might try unplugging the power from it or getting the unamplified version. There's like 3 or 5 companies selling that style antenna. Generally referred to as the silver sensor. So a non-amplified version might be good for you. Phillips and Zenith I know sell unamplified versions.


Again there are a million variables but i have the unamplified version and I'm about FOURTY miles to philly and get many of those stations fine with it. I'm about 50 miles to NYC and I need an amp to get those- so in some situations the unamplified version works out to 40ish miles. Just some benchmarks. As above there's tons of variable but i'd guess being just a few miles out you dont need an amp at all.


----------



## billyparrott

thanks.

the terk antenna is amplified.

i'll try and see how it works with the power turned off.

hopefully that does the trick. i'll keep everyone posted.


----------



## billyparrott

well, no cbs on 56,

and no cbs with the amplification off.

i'll try again and experiment a little later...


----------



## michaelk

sorry couldn't be of more assistance.


----------



## billyparrott

a little good news:

i ran a cable so i could place the antenna right up against a window, propped the antenna on its back so the array was pointing straight up into the sky, and i am now able to catch cbs. the signal is low and drops out often. and with laguardia to the north and jfk to the south there are a lot of planes flying over brooklyn. the signal drops out on pretty much all 18 channels every couple of minutes...the tv screen goes blank and silent and you can hear a plane flying overhead. but in regards to the cbs signal, at least i finally found it. my line of sight isn't terribly obstructed, but it is brooklyn, home to thousands of brownstones and tall tress. having to have an indoor antenna pointed straight up towards the blue sky leads me to believe i might need to try an outdoor antenna.

thanks for all your comments!


----------



## the-sloth

my experiences with indoor antennas have been fickle to say the least. i'm in chelsea with a north facing walk up on the 5th floor and an indoor antenna just wasn't cutting it for me (keep in mind i'm only 10 blocks south and 3 avenues west of ESB). walking around the room would cause the signal to fade and drop on and off. when the signal was working it was 90+, but it just seemed to have a low tolerance for objects that interfered with its path. i have access to the roof so it was an easy decision to ditch the silver sensor and mount a DB2 and run a cable into the apt. now i'm peaked at 98-100 on 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13. if you're not partial to a certain brand of antennas i always recommend the products at antennas direct .


----------



## michaelk

aside from the fact that there is no way to mount it easily outdoors- the silver sensor series probably are just as good as the DB2 or anything else on the smaller side of things. So even wire tying it to a fire escape or some other cheesy approach with mounting the silver sensor might work fine if you need instant gratification.


I'm like 40 Miles from philly and a silver sensor in my attic is almost as good as a CM 4228 (similar to the DB2's big brother the DB4) for that distance- I'm amazed at what that silly little peice of stamped metal can do....


(I'm more like 50 miles to NYC and the silver sensor is significantly inferior to the 4228 at that distance- but for 40 miles it holds it's own)


----------



## the-sloth

oh yeah... i know i could have fashioned up some sort of mount for the silver sensor, but since i have the top two floors 5 & 6, an excess of RG6 cable and a compression tool it was a no brainer to do a more permanent mount that can withstand high winds and bad weather. no to mention it only cost me $60-70 to do the install. i used a chimney mount with a 5ft antenna mast and it is rock solid.


also, i couldn't agree more that the silver sensor is amazing for what it is and also what it costs... heck, it was pulling in VHF analog feeds more clearly than time warner provides them with their analog service. lol. thank god i was able to talk the landlord into letting me do a non penetrating mount for directv.


----------



## michaelk

you would thing someone would market the silver sensor peice of tin without the fancy plastic and ith a U bolt so you could just use that for a real outdoor mount...


----------



## the-sloth

hehe. my only concern would be that the "wing" type design would make it very susceptible to wind, but yeah... it is surprising.


----------



## billyparrott

things have improved even more. i ran a little extra cable and moved the antenna to a further window with the antenna standing like its supposed to: with the array horizontal to the ground as apposed to aiming it into the sky, with the dipoles not extended. additionally, the array is now facing north/northeast, about 90 degrees away from the empire state building and straight into the wall of the neighboring building. i guess i'm getting some serious reflection in the area behind my building. in any event, signals are coming in at 80-90% and only fox and that music video station (the tube) cut out due to overhead airplane traffic, mostly after 6pm.


----------



## michaelk

one last thing to try if you ahven't- the phillips version of that antenna- you can pull the actuall antenna bit out of the stand and rotate it 90 degrees so it's aiming at the source but vertically. I never had any luck with that- but I dont have the reflection issues you guys in the city will have- maybe it is meant to help that?


----------



## SnellKrell

The Zenith version of the Silver Sensor can also be oriented vertically.


It only helped me that way with one channel, one in which I wasn't interested.


With digital reception and especially with an indoor antenna, you've got to try

everything.


----------



## billyparrott

yes, i've tried that. with the terk antenna you can have the array in a vertical or horizatal position. right now it seems to work better in horizontal position.


still haven't been able to pick up pbs/13, so i will be doing some more experimentation.


----------



## SnellKrell

Keep trying to pick up 13, but if you don't - you're not alone.


Although it transmits from the Combiner on the ESB, this station has the lowest power and highest Channel allocation (61) of all the major NY City stations.


It's very difficult. sometimes impossible for many of us to receive.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dibenzylacetone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My home (on Long Island) is located approximately 40 miles from the Empire State Building, and I receive all the channels being transmitted from this tower reliably. Even more, If I use my antenna rotator, I can receive a few channels from New Jersey and Connecticut. But for the best reception at this distance, you have to use a good fringe rated antenna (mounted on your roof) and a preamplifier, along with the shortest possible length of high quality coaxial cable. In my case, the system is comprised of a ChannelMaster CM4228 8 bay UHF antenna and a CM7777 preamplifier. And, I have the antenna mounted with a 6' RadioShack mast near the lowest part of my roofline. If I desired, I could gain about 10' in antenna height by mounting the antenna to the chimney, but the current system performance is more than satisfactory as is..





If you already own a receiver, or your TV is equipped with an OTA digital tuner then you could purchase the CM4228 and the CM7777 for about $122.00 + shipping here:
http://www.solidsignal.com/ 


I look upon Dibenzylacetone as the 40 mile WNBC-DT wonder of LI. I posted my last progress on the LI-OTA thread but this one is more active, so I'm reposting here:


I installed a CM4228 on the same 10 ft pole and used the same 300 ohm input CM 3041DSB preamp. The CM4228 feeds 1-2 ft of 300 ohm twinlead carefully threaded thru the "chicken-wire" rear of the the 4228, with some electrical tape holding the cable centerd between the chickenwire.


I tuned the direction of the new antenna and wound up basically where the old antenna is pointing, which is consistent with the antennaweb direction, basically due west. I did the tuning using the CBS signal and the WNBC signal. No obvious improvement for WNBC-DT, signal is basically zero. I DID pick up a marginal signal on WNET, which was basically zero before. So it seems like the antenna has gained me something on the high end (WNET = 61), but nothing useful on the low end (WNBC = 28). Note that I did follow Dibenzylacetone's suggestion and pointed quite a bit off the expected direction for WNBC-DT and still got bupkus.


I also scanned Google earth due west for a few miles and discovered that the land is either my height (~120') or lower.


I could replace the preamp with one with a lower NF, but it seems like the CMs are all 75 ohm input, which means I'd have to use a balun at the anteanna feed and then 1-2 feet of coax.


Any suggestions for receiving WNBC-DT in Lake Ronkonkoma? Opinions?


----------



## jhb-snowboard

billyparriott. I had a similiar issue with the terk slimline, not receiving 4-1, 11-1, 13-1. I tried a couple of other antennas, with somewhat better results, but not perfect. Ended up adding an amplifier to the terk with great success. 9,11, and 13 are dead on. Every so often I'll have intermitant break up on 4-1,, but for the most part it's good, but not reliable enough to record blindly.


----------



## Barknee

Help me out here if you can.. I have no problem receiving the 3 Digital PBS stations OTA on

(13-1, 13-2, 13-3) But none of these are the local analog broadcasts. Is this programming on channel 61? (or would that be 61-1)... When I attempt to tune to channel 61, my tuner redirects to channel 13-1...Not sure why)..Another MAJOR issue is my inability to decode the NJN digital channels.. I can get signal levels in the high 80's, but can not decode it, get message"poor signal quality" on the screen. I can receive the analog ch. 50 quite well but not the digital. If I go through the auto program function, it's likely I will receive it, but the next day I cant receive it..even with what appears to be adequate levels. Looking forward to your responses!

Barknee


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Barknee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Help me out here if you can.. I have no problem receiving the 3 Digital PBS stations OTA on
> 
> (13-1, 13-2, 13-3) But none of these are the local analog broadcasts. Is this programming on channel 61? (or would that be 61-1)... When I attempt to tune to channel 61, my tuner redirects to channel 13-1...Not sure why)..Another MAJOR issue is my inability to decode the NJN digital channels.. I can get signal levels in the high 80's, but can not decode it, get message"poor signal quality" on the screen. I can receive the analog ch. 50 quite well but not the digital. If I go through the auto program function, it's likely I will receive it, but the next day I cant receive it..even with what appears to be adequate levels. Looking forward to your responses!
> 
> Barknee




the ATSC standard has a thing called PSIP which basically lets the station use virtual channel numbers. So analog WNET is on channel 13. THe digital version is on 61- but they use the PSIP data to tell the tv to call it channel 13-1, 13-2, etc. That way the station doesn't loose their brand. WHen you dial 13-1 on your set then it just find the station and you dont need to know where it is. Channel 61 actually will go bye bye and be sold off by the goverenmtn when analog is shut down. So the digital version of WNET will move somplace else but you wont need to know what channel it winds up on- since the PSIP data will handle it and you will still be able to just punch in 13-1 and get it.


the NJN's are somewhat trying (like all pbs's I should say) all the PBS's have budget issues i guess so they just dont broadcast a high powered signal. So for many people they just come and go...


----------



## Barknee

What puzzles me is that the programming on analog CH13 is completely different from the 3 digital channels available... I was wondering if a digital channel is available of the same analog broadcast locally.. Thank you very much for your reply!

Barknee


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Barknee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What puzzles me is that the programming on analog CH13 is completely different from the 3 digital channels available... I was wondering if a digital channel is available of the same analog broadcast locally.. Thank you very much for your reply!
> 
> Barknee



Unfortunately, no!


----------



## billyparrott




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jhb-snowboard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> billyparriott. I had a similiar issue with the terk slimline, not receiving 4-1, 11-1, 13-1. I tried a couple of other antennas, with somewhat better results, but not perfect. Ended up adding an amplifier to the terk with great success. 9,11, and 13 are dead on. Every so often I'll have intermitant break up on 4-1,, but for the most part it's good, but not reliable enough to record blindly.




the terk i have (hdtva) is already amplified.

was the terk you were using already amplified and you added an additional amplifier? what amplifier did you add?


----------



## funko

just wanted to report that my OTA DTV has resumed working all of the sudden as of last night. so that's about 4 weeks of outage that seemed to only affect me (my area?) of north queens right by the whitestone bridge, and no one else. weird. i was about to buy a new external atsc tuner thinking my internal one went bad.


----------



## nyc-pchdtv3000

Hi,


I've posted a couple of times about not receiving WNET (PBS) despite having a line of sight view of the ESB and getting high quality signals from ABC, NBC, CBS, Univison, FOX, etc. I am about 6 mi from the ESB with an external antenna pointed at the mast - I could watch King Kong swat police helicopters.


There seems to be something wrong with WNET - it is not just a weak signal. I get no signal at all. I did receive a signal - pretty good in fact - until early in January.

My tuner is set to: 755000000 Hz (ch 61 752 - 758)


If others are getting WNET at this frequency, then something seriously odd is happening.


----------



## taclm55

Hi All,


I have to agree with nyc-pchdtv3000 about WNET-HD(13). There is definitely something wrong here. It's not that the signal is low, it fluctuates a lot, unlike other stations.


I'm a newbie to this OTA HDTV stuff, but I did some research before I jumped in. I am about 11 miles from ESB, but have a 100' hill in from of me, so I knew I would have issues from the start. I decided to install the Radio Shack U-75R for $25 on the roof anlong with a 25DB UHF preamplifier last Sun. Fired up the TV and *WOW*, I was getting all the local digital channels with good to perfect signal. Here is the run down:

*Strength Type PicQual Dropouts Station Channel Direction Distance*

34 480i Good No WNYE-DT 24 (25)* 38.4°* 8.23*mi*

97 1080i Perfect No WNBC-DT 28 (4)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*

88 480i Good No WPXN-DT 30 (31)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi

97 1080i Perfect No WPIX-DT 33 (11)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*

74 720p Excellent No WWOR-DT 38 (9) 19.6° 10.95*mi*

15 720p Breakup Yes WXTV-DT 40 (41)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*

82 720p Excellent No WNYW-DT 44 (5)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*

97 1080i Perfect No WCBS-DT 56 (2)* 19.6°* 10.95*mi*
*74 1080i Perfect No WNET-DT 61 (13) 19.6° 10.95 mi*

88 720p Excellent No WABC-DT 45 (7)* 18°* 11.39*mi*

88 480i VG No WFUT-DT 53 (68)* 18°* 11.39*mi*

21 480i Breakup Yes WFME-DT 29 (66)* 312.4°* 14.44*mi*

70 480i VG No WNJU-DT 36 (47)* 315.9°* 15.01*mi*

89 480i Good No WMBC-DT 18 (63)* 329.6°* 18.01*mi*

82 1080i Perfect No WNJN-DT 51 (50)* 329.6°* 18.01*mi*

73 480i Good No WNJB-DT 8 (58)* 257.8°* 21.19*mi*

61 480i Good No WLIW-DT 22 (21)* 57°* 35.97*mi*



I was very excited, especially with WNET, since the pic Sun night was was amazing. As you all know, it snowed Sun night, so I figured it would be a little worse, which it was for most stations. Stations like WLIW were breaking up because they were on the fringe with signal anyway and my ant was not pointing at them, but the strong stations at ESB went down to 88%, not bad and no breakup. But WNET pic was totally gone with 15% signal. I figured it was the snow.


It got better during the day (40&%), but then that night - gone (15%). The next day, breakup during the day, then 70% at night and steady. It's been on and off with signal at 3 diff levels and fluctualting when below 70%. The hours it's at 70% it's steady. It's almost af if they are changing the power with certain hours or programs, but you would think prime time eve would always be good. Wondering if more people are experiencing this?


----------



## SayNoToPistons

I need some help guys. I am in Bensonhurst brooklyn and i just got new Sony 46" V2500 lcd tv thats "hdtv ready" . I need help getting HDTV (since all the channels look absolutely horrible on the 46"). Wht equipment should i get?


Sorry if this is off topic. Please PM me if this might lead to "thread crap".


----------



## SnellKrell

First and foremost, you need a High Definition source. That is, HD Cable service, HD Satellite Service, or an antenna that will allow you to pick-up local stations in High Definition.


As far as the antenna is concerned, an outdoor antenna would be best. Do you have line-of-sight, that is, an unobstructed view, to the top of the Empire State Building?


Even without line-of-site, an outdoor antenna is preferable.


If an outdoor installation is not possible, you could try an indoor antenna - I use one called the Silver Sensor - it's marketed by Zenith and Philips.


Hope this helps. Hurry, the game is tomorrow!!!!!


----------



## n2ubp

Does your HDTV ready TV mean it does not have a built in HD tuner ?


----------



## SayNoToPistons

It has a HDTV tuner. If i go on my roof i can see the top of the empire state building and lower manhattan. Can i get some inputs on indoor antennas from fellow new yorkers?


I guess i'll have to watch the game in SD


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SayNoToPistons* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It has a HDTV tuner. If i go on my roof i can see the top of the empire state building and lower manhattan. Can i get some inputs on indoor antennas from fellow new yorkers?
> 
> 
> I guess i'll have to watch the game in SD



gary's suggestion is what i would recommend as well.... get a silver sensor. i found mine at the circuit city in union square.. $25 or so.


----------



## SayNoToPistons

Thanks, i'll try this one out.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Phili...oductDetail.do


----------



## JSWbBk

Has anyone else noticed that Channel 25(.1) dropped 25.2 and 25.3 a while ago?


25.2 was a City Driving Guide (?) with some woman talking about traffic issues local to NYC and showing live images from B&W traffic cameras which, of course, looked glorious on a large widescreen HDTV. (They looked like bad surveillance footage!).


25.3 was the color bars test pattern for months. I assumed they were getting ready to use the subchannel for programming, but I guess not.


I suppose that the City dropped the subchannels when it realized it would have to provide childrens programming on the subchannels as well.


I'm glad they're gone, but 25.1 doesn't have any HD programming to benefit from the restored bandwith.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JSWbBk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that Channel 25(.1) dropped 25.2 and 25.3 a while ago?
> 
> 
> 25.2 was a City Driving Guide (?) with some woman talking about traffic issues local to NYC and showing live images from B&W traffic cameras which, of course, looked glorious on a large widescreen HDTV. (They looked like bad surveillance footage!).
> 
> 
> 25.3 was the color bars test pattern for months. I assumed they were getting ready to use the subchannel for programming, but I guess not.
> 
> 
> I suppose that the City dropped the subchannels when it realized it would have to provide childrens programming on the subchannels as well.
> 
> 
> I'm glad they're gone, but 25.1 doesn't have any HD programming to benefit from the restored bandwith.



Yeah, I noticed that too. It would actually be nice if they put the 3 NYC-TV cable channels on there. Why should they be cable only at this point?


I just hope they take it off stretch though. They should already have enough children's programming to cycle through those channels if need be.


----------



## ARFF22

I am a newbie to this site and to the OTA HDTV information all together. Over the past year I have been looking at this site and have found the information to be most helpful. So helpful that I purchased what I thought was the correct equipment for my application, but am having difficulty and need a little guidance. I live in Valley Cottage, New York (10989) approximately 30 miles north of the city. I purchased a Sony Bravia LCD TV with a built in HDTV tuner and also purchased the largest Channel Master antenna (3671) that they make (the more metal in the air the better, right?). I've got it mounted to the roof of a one story building on a approximately 15' foot mount. I do not have direct line of sight to the Empire State building due to a slight hill. I've got the antenna pointed in the right heading in regards to compass heading and I am not getting any HD signals? I am totally baffled?? I am receiving the analog signals off the antenna, so I know my cable is good and it is pointed correctly in the general direction. I was told that I do not need an amplifier due to my close proximity to the city and the size antenna I have. I was also told that the antenna should work within about 15 degrees of dead on to the city? I do not know where to begin my trouble shooting?? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!


Jeff


----------



## SnellKrell

I hope someone from WNBC sees this post!


This morning, about 6:45 a.m., tuned in the local news in HD and noticed that the picture was strange. The horizontal ticker at the bottom of the screen appeared "jerky" - not the smooth motion it usually displays. Looked further then at pictures of hosts and reporters doing standups on location, and something is wrong!


Then the network took over with _Today_ and the same problem was apparent.


I'll bet anything that somehow, the station is outputting its video at 24 f.p.s. vs the normal frame rate of 30 frames.


Just checked the picture and the same problem it there.


----------



## Barknee

I am totally baffled?? I am receiving the analog signals off the antenna, so I know my cable is good and it is pointed correctly in the general direction. I was told that I do not need an amplifier due to my close proximity to the city and the size antenna I have. I was also told that the antenna should work within about 15 degrees of dead on to the city? I do not know where to begin my trouble shooting?? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!


Jeff[/quote]


Hi Jeff....

Make sure you read through your manual to assure that you are setting up properly... If you are in the auto-seek mode, allowing your TV to select all available channels for you, made certain that you have selected the "digital & analog" mode and not the "Analog only" mode for that scan sequence... I live in New Hempstead, in Rockland and receive all local digital stations VIA my indoor rabbit ear antenna, with a slight tweak needed once in a while. If you have a hill between yourself and the broadcast source I would try to receive the broadcast by trying to pick up the signal by elevating the angle of the antenna vertically toward the source; perhaps changing the polarization of the antenna may help- even trying to pick up the signal reflected off another object from the opposite direction of the source. Although your obstruction to the broadcast could be part of the problem, I have to admit that in my experience with other Sony products, the tuner specs do tend to be a bit soft in the sensitivity and selectivity department. Would be great if a someone you know, who has a smaller digital TV, bring it over and give it a try on your antenna. (Do you have a rotor on it?)

Barknee


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ARFF22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got the antenna pointed in the right heading in regards to compass heading and I am not getting any HD signals? I am totally baffled?? I am receiving the analog signals off the antenna, so I know my cable is good and it is pointed correctly in the general direction. I was told that I do not need an amplifier due to my close proximity to the city and the size antenna I have. I was also told that the antenna should work within about 15 degrees of dead on to the city? I do not know where to begin my trouble shooting?? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!
> 
> 
> Jeff



Does the TV have a signal strength meter or a way to manually tune the actual UHF channels the digital channels reside on? This would greatly aid in setting up your digital channels.


----------



## ARFF22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does the TV have a signal strength meter or a way to manually tune the actual UHF channels the digital channels reside on? This would greatly aid in setting up your digital channels.




I did make sure the TV was set to Digital mode and no the TV does not have a strength meter on it? I also do not have a rotor on the antenna, so any move I make means I have to go up on a ladder to adjust the antenna. I was hoping someone from the forum might be in my general location for some helpful hints? Does anyone sell a strength meter like Radio Shack that would help with pointing the antenna? Thanks in advance for the help guys!


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ARFF22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did make sure the TV was set to Digital mode and no the TV does not have a strength meter on it? I also do not have a rotor on the antenna, so any move I make means I have to go up on a ladder to adjust the antenna. I was hoping someone from the forum might be in my general location for some helpful hints? Does anyone sell a strength meter like Radio Shack that would help with pointing the antenna? Thanks in advance for the help guys!



One thing you can try is tune to an analog signal from the same source on a close channel if possible. Adjust the antenna for minimum ghost (not minimum snow) and see if that position helps. As has been said more time than one can count a rotor is worth the price after a few trips up and down that ladder.


----------



## Mr.H

ARFF22 make sure the antenna is conencted to the VHF/UHF input and not the CATV input.


----------



## Animgif

If one lives in Manhattan, should one need an antenna to pick up any HDTV signals OTA or should the signal strength be such that like with analog signals, an antenna isn't really necessary, it just assists?


----------



## SnellKrell

I live in Manhattan, and believe me, I do need an antenna.


I think I can barely receive a snow-filled analogue picture on one channel without an antenna.



Antennas are not an option!


----------



## Animgif




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Manhattan, and believe me, I do need an antenna.
> 
> 
> I think I can barely receive a snow-filled analogue picture on one channel without an antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> Antennas are not an option!



Thanks! Any antenna that is recommended for an apt here? I looked through the thread but didn't see any recommended overwhelmingly.


----------



## SnellKrell

I use an indoor antenna known at the Silver Sensor.


Mine is made by Zenith. There is the same antenna on sale at Circuit City

marketed under the Philips name, and it goes for just about $25.


Try it - but it's difficult to say what the results will be.


You'll have to try various locations in your apartment.


Fortunately, with Circuit City you'll be able to return it.


Mine works wonders in the caverns of Manhattan.


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ARFF22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am a newbie to this site and to the OTA HDTV information all together. Over the past year I have been looking at this site and have found the information to be most helpful. So helpful that I purchased what I thought was the correct equipment for my application, but am having difficulty and need a little guidance. I live in Valley Cottage, New York (10989) approximately 30 miles north of the city. Jeff



Hi Jeff,


I grew up in Congers, wife is from Valley Cottage. The whole area is circled by hills. Unless you live on a hilltop you might need that preamp. I've had great results with the Channel Master 7777 pre amp. Depending on the antenna, pointing it as accurately as possible is critical to picking up a signal.


Steve


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Animgif* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If one lives in Manhattan, should one need an antenna to pick up any HDTV signals OTA or should the signal strength be such that like with analog signals, an antenna isn't really necessary, it just assists?



i actually got a viewable picture on the major nets with just a 5ft RG6 cable plugged into the ANT input on my TV... nothing plugged into the other end.. hehe. of course the DB2 mounted on the roof workes much better.


----------



## uncertainty

Does anyone know when the CBS station in NYC will be switching to HD? Seems they are lagging far behind NBC and ABC....




thanks for any info


----------



## Barknee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ARFF22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did make sure the TV was set to Digital mode and no the TV does not have a strength meter on it? I also do not have a rotor on the antenna, so any move I make means I have to go up on a ladder to adjust the antenna. I was hoping someone from the forum might be in my general location for some helpful hints? Does anyone sell a strength meter like Radio Shack that would help with pointing the antenna? Thanks in advance for the help guys!




Personally, I would try a good quality indoor antenna which will give you the convenience of sweeping the horizon without repeatedly climbing on the roof and making small adjustments and checking for a signal inside. The Silver Sensor sounds like a great product based on the reviews I've read. You can even try a rabbit ear antenna with the proper end connector should you have one in the house.

You will have potentially better performance with a properly aligned indoor antenna than a mis-aligned outdoor antenna.

Barknee


----------



## guavatone

I live in North Jersey (Clifton) is this the right place to ask questions?


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guavatone* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in North Jersey (Clifton) is this the right place to ask questions?




sure. ask away... that is assuming your questions are about NYC locals.


----------



## SayNoToPistons

I searche deverywhere locally for the Silver sesnor and they were all sold out. Does anyone have experience with the Terk HDTVa (or HDTVi? they look like th same antennas but they probably got the name mixed). The Terk sells for 60+ (at best buy) but i know an electronics store that sells them for less than 30.


----------



## SnellKrell

Stay away from Terk - overpriced and underperforming!


The Silver Sensor is available through Circuit City - where it's marketed as

Philips PHDTV1.


It can also be found as a Zenith model at solidsignal.com and *********************


The antenna is worth the search!


----------



## Animgif

So, I got a non-amplified Philips antenna (all that Circuit City had) and am able to pick up 4, 9, 11, 31 but not 2, 5 or 7. Any ideas why this might be? I was under the impression that NBC, ABC and FOX were all broadcast from ESB (which I am just north of, up on the UWS) so I'd think with my antenna pointing at ESB I'd be able to pick them all up about the same.


----------



## Barknee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Animgif* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, I got a non-amplified Philips antenna (all that Circuit City had) and am able to pick up 4, 9, 11, 31 but not 2, 5 or 7. Any ideas why this might be? I was under the impression that NBC, ABC and FOX were all broadcast from ESB (which I am just north of, up on the UWS) so I'd think with my antenna pointing at ESB I'd be able to pick them all up about the same.



If you are very close to the ESB, I would try elevating (tilting) the forward part of the antenna about 20-45 degrees up toward the signal source (above the horizon). For those very close to the ESB, the emanated signal is radiating in a pattern that is probably well above the reception point due to the height of the transmission point. Give it a try, as this is a very directional indoor antenna!


----------



## michaelk

you can also rotate the silver sensors in the stand so the elements are vertical instead of horizontal. I live like 48 miles out so it has no effect by me, but maybe the set it up with that possibility for those of you so close?


----------



## billyparrott




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SayNoToPistons* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I searche deverywhere locally for the Silver sesnor and they were all sold out. Does anyone have experience with the Terk HDTVa (or HDTVi? they look like th same antennas but they probably got the name mixed). The Terk sells for 60+ (at best buy) but i know an electronics store that sells them for less than 30.




b&h photo has the terk amplified for about $38, the unamplified for $10 less.

they have quite a few other brands, indoor and outdoor.


----------



## zacster

I live in Bootiful Brooklyn and am new to the HD world. My new Westy 32" is connected to my old rooftop antenna and picks up digital CBS, NBC, Fox, Ch 9, Ch 11, Ch31 etc... without any problem. What I can't seem to get is ABC and PBS. The problem I have is that my antenna is basically unreachable, being mounted on my 3 1/2 story tall highly pitched roof. You can see the ESB from my 3rd Floor windows, so I have a clear LOS. The analog stations all come in OK as well as there aren't any tall buildings in the area.


Also, there are a few digital channels where I get sound but no picture. Since I don't know what these are anyway I don't really care.


I'm going to need a new roof soon, but until then is there anything I should try short of going up there?


And with all this being said, I can't remember the last time I actually watched something on ABC! And only kids shows are watched on PBS.


----------



## the-sloth

I'm assuming your "old" antenna is VHF/UHF?


what does your signal strength look like on the digital channels you mentioned? what about ABC and PBS?... nill?


if your results are marginal you could look at a decent indoor antenna or an outdoor antenna mounted in the attic (assuming you have an attic)?


----------



## JSWbBk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SayNoToPistons* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience with the Terk HDTVa (or HDTVi? they look like th same antennas but they probably got the name mixed).



I had the Terk HDTVi and it was okay. The HDTVa is the same antenna, but amplified.


Then I bought the DB2 from Antennas Direct and it got rid of most of the audio and video dropouts. (I live in East Williamsburg, Brooklyn, on the ground floor with no right to mount an outdoor antenna and no line-of-sight to ESB.)


----------



## Ted Todorov




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I use an indoor antenna known at the Silver Sensor.
> 
> ....
> 
> Mine works wonders in the caverns of Manhattan.



I have a Circuit City (Philips) Silver Sensor and all I can get is CBS (facing south UWS brownstone, no LoS to the ESB -- was that enough acronyms







) I've tried moving the antenna around (out to the deck) -- no help -- that got me Univision, but lost CBS.


Is a rooftop antenna of some sort going to help? (Still no LoS to the ESB from the roof, tall buildings directly across the courtyard in the direction of the ESB). If so, is there one available from a local brick & mortar store?


Thanks!


----------



## the-sloth

b&h has a fair amount of outdoor antennas, but none that i would buy (if it were me). they sell 99% terk stuff, which i wouldn't recommend to anyone. like the post above you mentions... i have an DB2 (antennas direct) that i got from solid signal.... i know its a pain to have to order online, but its worth it to get a quality product.


----------



## SayNoToPistons

I just received my Terk HDTVi in the mail today. Plugged it into my Sony 46 V2500 LCD tv (with HDTV tuner). I tried picking up local channels but they are all "fuzzy" with a lot of grain and noise. I live in a 2 story brick house and basically my whole neighborhood has the same type of house design. TV is on the first floor. Probably becase i live in NYC and the brick houses are interrupting the signal? My V2500 saids "No Signal" when i switch to analog channels. No matter how i position the antenna, regular VHF channels are noisy and i can't even detect UHF signals. Can i get some input on this?


Zip code is 11204 and i'm around 9.3 miles from the Empire state building.


----------



## scheckeNYK

I just go the RCA indoor antenna from BestBuy (ANT525) and I'm trying to tune, at the very least, the local CW11 affiliate in HD. I live in Brooklyn on Atlantic Avenue in the Boerum Hill area on the first floor of a 3 story building. The Antenna is hooked into my D* HR20 receiver, but i am not getting any signal at all. Any thoughts on how to adjust the antenna or if it's even a good one at all? Nothing I tweak seems to have any impact


----------



## Roger Lococco

most RCA antennas generally aren't very good,good thing BB will give you a full refund.You could try the Silver Sensor from Circuit City.


----------



## jvandrew

Noob questions

Hey, I'm new to OTA HDTV. I've been doing some reading and have a couple questions.


1. My zip code is 08246 (it's a tiny, tiny zip, so I live right in the center of the zip). When I put this into antennaweb, it only gives me info about ABC/FOX/CW from Philadelphia, PA and NBC from Atlantic City. I am fine with NBC Atlantic City, but I am shooting for ABC/CBS/FOX from New York, NY. According to antennaweb, the transmitter for those NY stations is 54.1 miles from Toms River, NJ. I live 63 miles due South of Toms River, so I figure I'm about 127 miles from the NY transmitters. it seems like there is some success getting stations from this far, especially since there isn't a single area that is even above sea level between myself, Toms River, and NY. It is flat as can be. Can anyone recommend any antenna/amp setup where I might be able to get the stations? Maybe one of these parabolic antennas? I understand this would have to be a pretty serious setup if feasible.


2. I think I already know the answer to this question. If the antenna setup works, is there any way to diplex it into my cable line and view the channels on my Motorola 6200 digital cable box? I assume the answer to this is no and I have to get a separate ATSC tuner for OTA, and use the digital cable box for the cable channels. I of course do get local channels from Comcast on the 6200, but although we used to get some locals from NY and Philadelphia, Comcast has been taking away the NY stations (Comcast owns Philadelphia sports teams, and they ram them down our throats). Hence why I'm interested in an antenna solution.


----------



## 5w30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jvandrew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Noob questions
> 
> Hey, I'm new to OTA HDTV. I've been doing some reading and have a couple questions.
> 
> 
> 1. My zip code is 08246 (it's a tiny, tiny zip, so I live right in the center of the zip). When I put this into antennaweb, it only gives me info about ABC/FOX/CW from Philadelphia, PA and NBC from Atlantic City. I am fine with NBC Atlantic City, but I am shooting for ABC/CBS/FOX from New York, NY. According to antennaweb, the transmitter for those NY stations is 54.1 miles from Toms River, NJ. I live 63 miles due South of Toms River, so I figure I'm about 127 miles from the NY transmitters. it seems like there is some success getting stations from this far, especially since there isn't a single area that is even above sea level between myself, Toms River, and NY. It is flat as can be. Can anyone recommend any antenna/amp setup where I might be able to get the stations? Maybe one of these parabolic antennas? I understand this would have to be a pretty serious setup if feasible.
> 
> 
> 2. I think I already know the answer to this question. If the antenna setup works, is there any way to diplex it into my cable line and view the channels on my Motorola 6200 digital cable box? I assume the answer to this is no and I have to get a separate ATSC tuner for OTA, and use the digital cable box for the cable channels. I of course do get local channels from Comcast on the 6200, but although we used to get some locals from NY and Philadelphia, Comcast has been taking away the NY stations (Comcast owns Philadelphia sports teams, and they ram them down our throats). Hence why I'm interested in an antenna solution.



You won't get New York. Analog TV signals reach around 75 miles on a good day; digital signals which incide HDTV much less, they start petering out after 55-60 miles, the station's so-called "grade B" contour. They're both limited by the earth's curvature. and the height of the transmit antenna, which in NYC's case is around 1200 feet - Empire State.

TV signals are different in that regard from AM or shortwave radio signals, which carry great distances for a 50 kw clear-channel station like WABC 770 or WFAN 660 here in NYC.

For example, Montauk, NY is 125 miles east of NYC; they can only get NYC OTA stations on cable .. anything OTA there is picked up faintly from Conn. or RI. You'd have to erect about a 1000 foot antenna filled with special antennae and amplifiers -- much like cable tv cos. do in fringe areas to get analog reception.

For you, DirecTV may be an alternative to get NY OTA stations (NBC East=WNBC, etc.)

You're probably in a fringe area for Phila. HDTV, too.


----------



## ghostie

Hi,


My place in Brooklyn (11220) doesn't have an antenna on the roof, so I've been looking to get one. AntennaWeb indicates the channels of interest are either yellow or red (small multidirectional and medium directional, respectively). I tried a Zenith Silver Sensor and it can pick up 3 channels, but the channels aren't stable and has a tendency to go out when a plane flies overhead.


My question is, what type of antenna should I get for the roof? Do you know of a company that will install it (I don't know how to ground it properly)? And how much would doing this cost?


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghostie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> My place in Brooklyn (11220) doesn't have an antenna on the roof, so I've been looking to get one. AntennaWeb indicates the channels of interest are either yellow or red (small multidirectional and medium directional, respectively). I tried a Zenith Silver Sensor and it can pick up 3 channels, but the channels aren't stable and has a tendency to go out when a plane flies overhead.
> 
> 
> My question is, what type of antenna should I get for the roof? Do you know of a company that will install it (I don't know how to ground it properly)? And how much would doing this cost?



i would be interested in knowing how people in walk-ups/apt buildings ground their antennas as well. i installed my DB2 on the roof of my 6 story walk-up (manhattan). driving a grounding rod in the soil isn't an option where i live, so I'm not sure what (if any) options there are.... anyone?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i would be interested in knowing how people in walk-ups/apt buildings ground their antennas as well.



Grounding? Do people still do that?


----------



## 5w30

Find a copper pipe somewhere in your plumbing and ground it to that.


----------



## SnellKrell

Talk to an electrician - but I believe that metal, plumbing air vent pipes on a roof can be used as grounds.


Don't take my word, check it out!


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Grounding? Do people still do that?




yeah, i paid out of pocket for a top notch D* tech to tweak my alignment (the techs D* sent were idiots and couldn't get it right) and i asked him about grounding and he said its a good thing to do to protect yourself... but he said that in the city with all the skyscrapers the chances of lightning striking a small antenna on a 6 story walk-up is very very slim.


i'll ask an electrician and see what they say.


----------



## manekineko

I'm located about a third of a mile NW of the ESB, but in a high-rise apartment facing north. I just got a Samsung TS160 to use as an OTA receiver which I hooked up to a basic loop antenna to. I was expecting to either get everything or nothing since all the digital channels come from the ESB, but 'm a little surprised to see that I only get CBS2, WFUT68, WNET13, WWOR9, and WMBC63. I ordered a Circuit City Phillip's Silver Sensor which isn't here yet in the hopes that will help me get the rest of the channels.


In my situation should I expect to be able to get all the ESB digital channels? Should I be trying to aim through a skyscraper or north away from the ESB? Any advice on how I can improve my reception?


----------



## SnellKrell

With UHF digital reception in the caverns of Manhattan - expect nothing that seems to be logical!


Although most New York Metropolitan area stations transmit from the ESB, and also most use WCBS-DT's antenna, don't automatically believe that if you receive one, you'll receive all. Different power and different frequencies.


You state that you're located NW of ESB in a high-rise facing north. It's great that you're receiving anything. I have the Silver Sensor and it is extremely directional and should help you. Unless you have line-of-site to the top of the ESB, you will be dealing with multipath signals - that is, signals that are bouncing off of other buildings before they reach your antenna. You will have to "walk" your Silver Sensor around your apartment until you find "sweet spots" that will allow for steady reception. "Sweet spots" can and will differ for each individual station.


I wish you well. Take deep breaths and show a lot of patience.


----------



## billyparrott

yes, don't give up. i am in brooklyn, 1st floor with brownstones on each side, and my antenna is pointing 90 degrees east of the esb. i guess i'm picking up reflections in my back yard. it took about an hour of trial and error, and i still can't catch 13, but all others are coming in strong. i also got good results aiming the antenna array straight up in the air. if you don't have line of sight try and aim high.


----------



## vincentnyc

any1 here have a good recommendation for a good indoor antenna in nyc? i live on the upper east side on 2nd floor. my tv is in living next to the windows and my windows is facing northeast to the east river.


----------



## SnellKrell

Look at my posting above, #6396.


The Silver Sensor is one of the best, if not the best you can get.


Circuit City sells it as the Philips Model #HDTV1


Try it, if anything can help, I believe it is the Silver Sensor.


----------



## vincentnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Look at my posting above, #6396.
> 
> 
> The Silver Sensor is one of the best, if not the best you can get.
> 
> 
> Circuit City sells it as the Philips Model #HDTV1
> 
> 
> Try it, if anything can help, I believe it is the Silver Sensor.



went to circuitcity.com and type in "Philips Model #HDTV1" in the search field and nothing pop up. what now?


any1 know where as they sell this antenna? and how for how much?


----------



## vincentnyc

is this the antenna what u guys are talking about "silver sensor"

http://www.theelectroniccompany.com/zhd-tv1.html 


but this one is from zenith and not by philips.


----------



## SnellKrell

Zenith and Philips versions the same. Just stay away from Terk's model.


At circuitcity.com - Go to TV & Video - then Antennas & HD Receivers -

and there it is!


Also, available at solidsignal.com and *********************


It is hidden at Value - Go to Accessories - then HD Video Switches - then OTA Antennas


----------



## manekineko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *billyparrott* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i also got good results aiming the antenna array straight up in the air. if you don't have line of sight try and aim high.



Fantastic advice! Thank you, I had practically given up. Now I receive:

CBS 2

ABC 7

WNYW Fox 9

WNET PBS 13

WMBC 63

WFUT 68

Got all the channels I was hoping for! =)

Now when's NBC going to start transmitting digitally?


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *manekineko* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fantastic advice! Thank you, I had practically given up. Now I receive:
> 
> CBS 2
> 
> ABC 7
> 
> WNYW Fox 9
> 
> WNET PBS 13
> 
> WMBC 63
> 
> WFUT 68
> 
> Got all the channels I was hoping for! =)
> 
> Now when's NBC going to start transmitting digitally?



It already is. UHF 28


----------



## the-sloth

question for you guys.. i thought my setup was all set but i'm seeing vastly different signal strengths on 3 different HD tuners. i have a DB2 (antennas direct) on a 5 ft mast (chimney mount) with direct line of sight of the ESB. building is a 6 story walk-up only a few avenues and no more than 10 blocks from ESB. the roof has direct line of sight at ESB.. literally. obviously the transmitters are much much higher than my antenna, but i've tried holding the DB2 at an angle and it didn't seem to improve reception.

--------HR20----HR10-------PDP-5070 (pioneer built in tuner)

2-------100-------97-------------88

4-------100-------92-------------73

5--------93--------88------------69

7-------100-------94------------80

9-------100-------90------------82

11-----100--------91------------81

13-----100--------94------------79


i noticed during the heavy rain last night (thursday) that ABC was dropping on the HR10 (i was in bed and didn't check the others) and it got me thinking about tweaking things. is there anything i can do to even out these numbers? i have a single RG6 (15ft) coming into the apt into one splitter, that runs one into splitter and the other into the HR20. i've tried switching them around and the signals don't really vary that much. any ideas? suggestions?


being so close to the transmitters i expected my signal to be peaked at or near 100 on all of them... is that expecting too much?


----------



## SnellKrell

You will never be able to "even out" your signal strength numbers among three different components.


Each receiver/tuner more than likely contains different chips and circuitry which will give you different results with the same input source. I use an indoor Silver Sensor antenna connected via a splitter to my Sony Satellite receiver and my new Sharp television set.


I always had thought that the Sony receiver did a great job with all the multipath problems that I have until I connected the Sharp. The TV's tuner locks on stations that the Sony can't. There's a huge difference - 4th Generation vs. 5th Generation chips.


All three of your components will give you different results. Your Pioneer, by way of the numbers you provided, seems to have some trouble with Channel 5.1. If the Pioneer locks on to and holds the signal, don't worry.


Rain and other weather phenomena can play havoc with UHF/Digital reception - it's part of the animal.


Be thankful that you get the numbers you do. I wish that I could receive Channel 13.1 over-the-air, my only method to get this channel is via cable.


If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!


Enjoy what you've got.


----------



## the-sloth

i suppose... is there a device that could split my signal 3 ways and do it more efficiently? just to ensure my problems are with the splitters.


btw... i definitely realize i'm lucky to pull in 13.1,2,3. i just figured that since all the x-mitters are either on ESB or "the rock" (all very close) that the signals would be relatively the same. (especially 5.1 and 2.1 since they are both on ESB).


----------



## SnellKrell

There are splitters, but you're not getting the same signal strength from three different components has to do with what I've already mentioned - different chips, circuitry!


"The Rock" originally was the location for WNBC-DT - the station now transmits from the ESB.


Although all the major stations transmit from the ESB, they all have different frequencies and power. There is no way to expect equal reception and strength just because they all emanate from the same location.


All but channels 5.1 and 5.2, of the stations you mentioned, use the Combiner -which in actuality is WCBS-DT's omnidirectional antenna. 5.1 and 5.2 use a separate antenna with a directional pattern.


----------



## vincentnyc

Quick question about hd/digital signal via ATSC tuner OTA vs. analog signal via NTSC tuner OTA.


I remember a long time ago when we didn't have cable and watch tv with those rabbits ears antenna with analog signal OTA. Now we get all of the tv stations, some are better than others. For example, some stations is more blurry than others or double image etc.


Now with digital/HD signal OTA... do u also get the same experience just like the analog signal in term of blurryness, double image, etc. Or hd/digital signal is either hit or miss? Meaning if u get it it will be very good and if u don't...u won't get any picture what so ever? Someone please let me know...thx in advance.


----------



## UnnDunn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vincentnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Quick question about hd/digital signal via ATSC tuner OTA vs. analog signal via NTSC tuner OTA.
> 
> 
> I remember a long time ago when we didn't have cable and watch tv with those rabbits ears antenna with analog signal OTA. Now we get all of the tv stations, some are better than others. For example, some stations is more blurry than others or double image etc.
> 
> 
> Now with digital/HD signal OTA... do u also get the same experience just like the analog signal in term of blurryness, double image, etc. Or hd/digital signal is either hit or miss? Meaning if u get it it will be very good and if u don't...u won't get any picture what so ever? Someone please let me know...thx in advance.



There are basically three "stages".


You'll get good reception, in which case you'll get a perfect picture all the time.

You'll get borderline reception, in which case the picture and sound will cut in and out all the time, with lots of blockiness in the picture (a bit like a scratched-up DVD)...

Or you'll get bad reception in which case you'll get no picture whatsoever.


If you're stuck with borderline reception, it will quickly drive you nuts. Borderline digital reception is MUCH MUCH more annoying than even poor analog reception.


----------



## SnellKrell

With digital, if you get the signal and your tuner can lock on to it and hold it - it will be "perfect!"


It's either there or it's not.


The only exception is a signal whose strength fluctuates - so you would have an on again, off again experience.


Once you've got a signal there's no such thing as ghosting or blurry pictures.


----------



## vincentnyc

Wow. Thx for the info UnnDunn.


Now how many ppl have experience borderline reception vs perfect reception? Or is it more like half and half?


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are splitters, but you're not getting the same signal strength from three different components has to do with what I've already mentioned - different chips, circuitry!
> 
> 
> "The Rock" originally was the location for WNBC-DT - the station now transmits from the ESB.
> 
> 
> Although all the major stations transmit from the ESB, they all have different frequencies and power. There is no way to expect equal reception and strength just because they all emanate from the same location.
> 
> 
> All but channels 5.1 and 5.2, of the stations you mentioned, use the Combiner -which in actuality is WCBS-DT's omnidirectional antenna. 5.1 and 5.2 use a separate antenna with a directional pattern.




ah. ok, i wasn't aware that WNBC was xmitting from ESB now. thanks for the info and suggestions!


----------



## icemannyr

I don't get WLIW's OTA feed but looking at the sub channels via my QAM cable feed it seems WLIW-DT has made changes to it's channel setup.

Now it is three SD channels instead of two.


21.2 is a digital version of WLIW-TV UHF Ch21. 22.3 is WLIW Create.

The addition is WNET's Thirteen World is now broadcasting on 21.4.


I wonder if this means Thirteen World will be taken off WNET-DT?


----------



## OldSenileGuy

I was excited to come home with my brand new Silver Sensor today, and hooked it up to get...nothing. I then went on antennaweb.org and was very surprised to see that apparently I don't get any DTV stations? I'm on E88th between York and East End in a south facing apartment on the third floor of a 5 floor building. I should be able to get _something_...shouldn't I?


----------



## SnellKrell

Forget what antennaweb.org says, the site is extremely conservative.


I live about a mile south, southwest of you and the site tells me the same thing -

no stations. In truth, I can receive nearly 20 with my Silver Sensor!


You have to be very patient with the Silver Sensor, it is extraordinarily directional and you must "walk" the antenna around your room, noting where you pick up reception for each individual station.


The third floor location is working against you, but you neveertheless should be getting some stations.


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't get WLIW's OTA feed but looking at the sub channels via my QAM cable feed it seems WLIW-DT has made changes to it's channel setup.
> 
> Now it is three SD channels instead of two.
> 
> 
> 21.2 is a digital version of WLIW-TV UHF Ch21. 22.3 is WLIW Create.
> 
> The addition is WNET's Thirteen World is now broadcasting on 21.4.
> 
> 
> I wonder if this means Thirteen World will be taken off WNET-DT?



13.3 now shows V-me TV (Spanish language shows). Some from the Food Network and others made by PBS. Also programming from Latin America and Spain.


----------



## mikeny

Hi guys,


Are we finally going to get HD Yankee games on My 9 this season?


----------



## mikeny

Hi guys,


Are we finally going to get HD Yankee games on My 9 this season?


----------



## POWERFUL

Last year at the end we did get them in HD but no surround sound. Check the YES HD thread in HDTV Programming forum. As for what games are in HD on My9 you will have to check the schedule. Next time don't double post.


----------



## mikeny

I really don't remember any games being in HD at the end. I remember some expectation that there would be but then they weren't. Maybe I missed a couple. Hopefully My 9 will make an announcement as The CW did for the Mets regarding HD.


The Yankees schedule online has the TV schedule on it but doesn't say HD. I don't even think there is a YES HD schedule out yet.


Sorry about the double post. When I submitted the post there was vbulletin message saying AVS was down for server maintenance. I must have pressed refresh some time after that.


----------



## taoofdre

I just bought a used samsung dtb-h260f, am in line of sight of the empire state building in Astoria, QNS and am getting no signal with a cheap UHF/VHF antenna. How's everyone else? Is the samsung DOA? Any tricks?


Same spot, same antenna, different receiver got me 8-10 channels on a clear day (but the receiver only outputted 480p, so I returned it).


can weather kill my signal, or is something else going on...


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taoofdre* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just bought a used samsung dtb-h260f, am in line of sight of the empire state building in Astoria, QNS and am getting no signal with a cheap UHF/VHF antenna. How's everyone else? Is the samsung DOA? Any tricks?
> 
> 
> Same spot, same antenna, different receiver got me 8-10 channels on a clear day (but the receiver only outputted 480p, so I returned it).
> 
> 
> can weather kill my signal, or is something else going on...



Were you able to check manually to see if a signal was even registering on any of the channels? Check the signal strength indicator on the RF channels that stations broadcast their digital signals on. If nothing shows up than the unit is probably defective. If you do get something you might have to "play" with antenna position again to find a sweet spot.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taoofdre* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just bought a used samsung dtb-h260f, am in line of sight of the empire state building in Astoria, QNS and am getting no signal with a cheap UHF/VHF antenna. How's everyone else? Is the samsung DOA? Any tricks?
> 
> 
> Same spot, same antenna, different receiver got me 8-10 channels on a clear day (but the receiver only outputted 480p, so I returned it).
> 
> 
> can weather kill my signal, or is something else going on...



What antenna do you have? I used a Silver Sensor from Nassau County and got all the major channels. Where are you in Astoria? Are you near the Amtrak viaduct? Are you east of the N train?


----------



## vincentnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taoofdre* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just bought a used samsung dtb-h260f, am in line of sight of the empire state building in Astoria, QNS and am getting no signal with a cheap UHF/VHF antenna. How's everyone else? Is the samsung DOA? Any tricks?
> 
> 
> Same spot, same antenna, different receiver got me 8-10 channels on a clear day (but the receiver only outputted 480p, so I returned it).
> 
> 
> can weather kill my signal, or is something else going on...



this maybe dumb question..did u go into the channel manager option and do a "auto scan" of the air? i got the dtb-h260f on on friday w/my indoor philip sensor antenna and i live on the upper east side facing the triborough bridge and i dont have any sight of the empire state building and still pick up all the hd channel like cbs hd, pbs hd etc. etc.


another option for u are if u have a cable box..to get a cable splitter and put one rf to ur cable box and the other rf to ur 260...it also works for me.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really don't remember any games being in HD at the end. I remember some expectation that there would be but then they weren't.



There was at least one YES-HD game on My9 around 9.17.06. WWOR-DT had just switched to 720p then.


----------



## tvblink

I've had receptionproblems around Suffolk County too. intermittent


----------



## mikeny




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There was at least one YES-HD game on My9 around 9.17.06. WWOR-DT had just switched to 720p then.



Thanks. So it was a simulcast then..not a true "My 9" game. Hopefully they will continue in that direction.


----------



## michaelk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i suppose... is there a device that could split my signal 3 ways and do it more efficiently? just to ensure my problems are with the splitters.
> 
> 
> btw... i definitely realize i'm lucky to pull in 13.1,2,3. i just figured that since all the x-mitters are either on ESB or "the rock" (all very close) that the signals would be relatively the same. (especially 5.1 and 2.1 since they are both on ESB).




I suspect your numbers vary just because different generations of chipsets BUT back to your splitter question.


Splitters literally split the signal in half. If you get x signal on the wire and then split it 2 ways for a pair of TV's you get 1/2 of X at each TV. A 3 way splitter cuts the signal in half and then cuts one of those legs in half again. So one leg has half of x, and legs 2 and 3 have 1/4 of the original X. (all the legs on a 4 way splitter would have 1/4 the signal)


So you might try futzing around with which component is hooked to which leg of your splitter. it's POSSIBLE (but no given) that the newer devices might handle the 1/4 signal better then the oldest device. Who knows maybe the "lowest" tuner is getting too much signal- there's a ton of illogical variable with atsc reception....


Signal strength is measures in decibels (dB) which is logarithmic- so it's not as bad as it sounds. If you have 20 decibels and split in in half you don't divide by 2, you actually subtract 3. So half of 20 decibels would be 17. Half of 17 would be 14. Half of 14 would be 11. etc etc. There's also some loss from the components so real world they tend to describe a splitter as a 3.5 dB loss. (or 7dB on double split legs in a 3 way splitter).


----------



## icemannyr

The first Ch9 game is April 17 Indians at Yankees.

I would expect it, as last year was, to be produced by YES for Ch9.


In the promo for the game at the bottom it says "in HD only on iO digital cable".

Of couse that makes no sense since every NYC area cable system carries WWOR-DT and you can watch the OTA feed.

I still don't know why they use the "in HD only on iO" graphic since WWOR is not exclusive to Cablevision.

http://www.my9ny.com/whatson/yankees/index.html


----------



## SnellKrell

Time Warner Cable in Manhattan, for some strange reason, does not carry WWOR-DT!


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable in Manhattan, for some strange reason, does not carry WWOR-DT!




I've just read that Time Warner Cable of New York City and New Jersey will begin carrying WWOR-DT. No start date was mentioned in the information I received.


----------



## dan57

Comcast here in Central Jersey does not carry WWOR.


----------



## michaelk

patriot media has every NY Station except wwor-dt.


I don't understand how it is that so many cable companies dont carry it- since fox owns it you would think it would have been in a package deal with channel 5?


Anyway- I'm out in flemington so NY Locals are tough for me- how does channel 9 rate in power/ease at this point in time compared to the others? I just noticed I can get channel 7 off the BACK side of my 4228 aimed at philly. So I'm wondering if I can use a silver sensor or another 4228 to get channel 9. Any words of wisdom.


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've just read that Time Warner Cable of New York City and New Jersey will begin carrying WWOR-DT. No start date was mentioned in the information I received.



Tomorrow 3/29








http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...elchanges.html


----------



## andy.s.lee

For anyone interested, coverage maps for the local transmitters have been posted in this thread .


Best regards,

Andy


----------



## vincentnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LL3HD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tomorrow 3/29
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...elchanges.html



Any1 here in Manhattan that is able to pick up WWOR HD since 3/29/07 with their tv QAM or standalone QAM tuner instead of a time Warner digital box?


----------



## SnellKrell

No, just tried and WWOR-DT, 1.9 is not coming in!


----------



## dad1153

My Olevia 747i's ATSC tuner picks WWOR-DT as 5.2, right behind Fox's 5.1 DT signal.


----------



## SnellKrell

The question has nothing to do with an ATSC tuner, it pertains to a television set's QAM

tuner which allows unencrypted digital cable channels, including HD to be viewed.


Beyond that, channel 5.2 although digital is in SD.


----------



## the-sloth

WWOR-DT (9.1) is coming in fine for me.


----------



## vincentnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WWOR-DT (9.1) is coming in fine for me.



with a twc digital cable box or ur own built hdtv qam tuner?


----------



## vincentnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dad1153* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My Olevia 747i's ATSC tuner picks WWOR-DT as 5.2, right behind Fox's 5.1 DT signal.




i did a scan on thurs 3/29/07 on my samsung hdtv tuner..i still cant pick up wwor-dt channel. i can pick up cbs hd, nbc hd, fox hd, abc hd, wpix hd and pbs hd.


should i try to rescan again?


----------



## gooomz

I heard Sateliete offers the best HD picture quality? Is this true, and is it actually noticeable in practice? How about Verizon Fios?


----------



## SnellKrell

A stable over-the-air signal has the least, if any compression - that's the best.


What I've read and heard is that FiOS should provide excellent quality - better than cable or satellite.


----------



## gooomz

is it a very noticeable improvement or something suble, and does fios offer 1080p broadcasts?


----------



## SnellKrell

There's no such thing as 1080p broadcasts.


As of now, only High Definition discs will provide 1080p!


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gooomz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I heard Sateliete offers the best HD picture quality? Is this true, and is it actually noticeable in practice? How about Verizon Fios?




I have Dish but not HD. I get all my HDTV via Sony-DHG-HD250 or Samsung DTBH260F. The BEST video comes from WCBS or WNBC followed closely by WPIX (all 1080i). FIOS I've HEARD is very good but.....it's not free. I say wait till Feb 2009 and see what the landscape looks like when ALL analog goes away and digital must be defacto standard


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vincentnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> with a twc digital cable box or ur own built hdtv qam tuner?



OTA... i just reread your posts and realize you guys were talking about QAM.


----------



## vincentnyc

so any once again..any1 here able to pick up wwor hd channel with their tv qam tuner using their cable signal instead of ota?


ANY1??????????????????????????????


----------



## SnellKrell

Not yet!


----------



## icemannyr

Well I guess since Verizon Fios has WWOR-DT that tag line "on on iO" on the WOR promos is still wrong.

I wonder why Verizon was able to get WWOR-DT but TimeWarner does not already?


Also instead of WLNY, WWOR will be broadcasting some Nets games when there is a conflict with the Yankees on YES this month.


----------



## SnellKrell

Each distributor must negotiate with each television station in order to carry the station's signal.


Just because Verizon was able to cut a deal doesn't mean that there are the same terms and conditions for each distributor.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vincentnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> so any once again..any1 here able to pick up wwor hd channel with their tv qam tuner using their cable signal instead of ota?
> 
> 
> ANY1??????????????????????????????



Was there perfectly fine on my QAM tuner and I did a rescan yesterday.


EDIT: just read over the original question. I'm in a CV area. Maybe TWC is taking 5.2 off WNYW-DT instead of 9.1 off WWOR-DT.


----------



## vincentnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was there perfectly fine on my QAM tuner and I did a rescan yesterday.
> 
> 
> EDIT: just read over the original question. I'm in a CV area. Maybe TWC is taking 5.2 off WNYW-DT instead of 9.1 off WWOR-DT.



nope..i just posted this on twc thread and no one is able to pick up wwor hd...they said twc is broadcasting only sd signal.


btw where is CV?


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vincentnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> nope..i just posted this on twc thread and no one is able to pick up wwor hd...they said twc is broadcasting only sd signal.
> 
> 
> btw where is CV?



CV= Cablevision


----------



## tryin2search

Something I've noticed, maybe someone has an answer. Is Fox 5 the only station that is committed to providing a solid OTA signal. I use a indoor antennas, along with my Cablevision, for reception and I'm in Southern Westchester. On analog it is the best quality VHF channel, and on digital it is consistently the strongest channel, even at the fringes of the NY DMA. I go to Eastern Fairfield county often and know that it is the strongest of the NY signals there.


The other stations are usually good but have dropouts every so often, Fox 5 rarely has any. I'd have to say NBC 4 is the most inconsistent, followed by CW 11, I can't receive digital 13. I know that some of the stations are not going to do any upgrades to equipment until the Freedom Tower is completed and they can move in, but is that the only reason they don't seem to dedicate any effort to a quality signal like channel 5 or is there something else?


----------



## SnellKrell

Concerning digital reception, so much has to do with a combination/combinations of a digital station's channel allocation (its frequency), its power, its transmitting antenna's location/height, the weather (temperature, humidity) and of course, the viewer's location.


WNYW-DT is the metropolitan area's most powerful station - 990kW using its own antenna on the Empire State Building - transmitting on channel 44.


On the other side of things, WNET-DT - transmits from the Combiner on the Empire State,

using the highest channel in the area - channel 61 and has the lowest power - 12.4kw.


There will be some changes before a move to the Freedom Tower.


To coincide with the February 2009 turn-off of analog transmission, in the New York market, there will be a reshuffling of some our digital channels' frequencies.


WCBS-DT From Channel 56 To Channel 33

WABC-DT From Channel 45 to Channel 7

WPIX-DT From Channel 33 to Channel 11

WNET-DT From Channel 61 to Channel 13


I haven't heard anything about a change in power for any of those stations. The wish is that WNET-DT, specifically, will have a more powerful signal.


Who knows how those changes will affect reception.


Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## KML-224

WNET-DT (PBS) on UHF channel 61? How far is that from WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford? WTIC-TV analog has a signal of 5 million watts visual (ERP) from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT (a few miles to the west-southwest). Likewise, WTIC-DT uses channel 31 from the same site. How far is that from the Empire State Building and the analog signal of WPXN-TV (ION)?


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Concerning digital reception, so much has to do with a combination/combinations of a digital station's channel allocation (its frequency), its power, its transmitting antenna's location/height, the weather (temperature, humidity) and of course, the viewer's location.



If you've yet to stumble across this thread, check it out, you folks might find it interesting.







http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&page=1&pp=30


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There will be some changes before a move to the Freedom Tower.



so are all the nyc dma transmitters (for all the stations that are current on ESB) moving to the freedom tower? if not, thats going to stink for me b/c ESB is NE of me and freedom tower is south.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To coincide with the February 2009 turn-off of analog transmission, in the New York market, there will be a reshuffling of some our digital channels' frequencies.
> 
> 
> WCBS-DT From Channel 56 To Channel 33
> 
> WABC-DT From Channel 45 to Channel 7
> 
> WPIX-DT From Channel 33 to Channel 11
> 
> WNET-DT From Channel 61 to Channel 13
> 
> 
> I haven't heard anything about a change in power for any of those stations. The wish is that WNET-DT, specifically, will have a more powerful signal.



wait... i thought they were phasing out the old channels and just letting them leave the remapping in place so people still see the "traditional" channel numbers. are they just letting them use the current "digital" channel for HDTV until they have to turn off the analog broadcast? thats going to be a PITA for people like me who have 20-30 season passes on my DVR based on the current digital channels.


----------



## SnellKrell

Remapping is expected to take place with the changes.


For example, when WCBS-DT begins transmitting on Channel 33, your television set should continue to call it Channel 2.1.


Yes, it has all the potential for some major problems.


The stations have time to get things straight, let's hope they use the time wisely.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Remapping is expected to take place with the changes.
> 
> 
> For example, when WCBS-DT begins transmitting on Channel 33, your television set should continue to call it Channel 2.1.
> 
> 
> Yes, it has all the potential for some major problems.
> 
> 
> The stations have time to get things straight, let's hope they use the time wisely.



Any idea if the CT stations will realign as well? There's currently a staion on 33 in CT that tends to interfere with my reception of the CW out of NY. You'd think they'd space the channels out a little more considering how close the DMAs are.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vincentnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> so any once again..any1 here able to pick up wwor hd channel with their tv qam tuner using their cable signal instead of ota?
> 
> 
> ANY1??????????????????????????????



Last night, on Time Warner Cable, I found the following QAM Channels:


93.1 - WWOR-DT


93.2 - TNT-HD


Who knows how long they will remain on those channels the way cable companies reconfigure QAMs?


Thought you all would be interested!


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any idea if the CT stations will realign as well? There's currently a staion on 33 in CT that tends to interfere with my reception of the CW out of NY. You'd think they'd space the channels out a little more considering how close the DMAs are.



Don't know the specifics for markets other than the New York DMA.


But - if you have the patience, look at the first "Sticky" under

"Local HDTV Info and Reception."


Here, you'll be able to wade through info about new FCC channel allocations

throughout the U.S.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Remapping is expected to take place with the changes.
> 
> 
> For example, when WCBS-DT begins transmitting on Channel 33, your television set should continue to call it Channel 2.1.
> 
> 
> Yes, it has all the potential for some major problems.
> 
> 
> The stations have time to get things straight, let's hope they use the time wisely.




this could be a disaster.... i have two HR20s from Directv which rely on the guide data for the channel mapping (no ability to scan for OTA channels).... so if D* isn't on the ball and remaps these i will be screwed.


as for freedom tower, do you know if all the transmitters (the ones currently on ESB) are getting moved or just some?


----------



## SnellKrell

At this point, the alliance of stations is at least talking about all.


Who knows what will occur over time.


----------



## bret4

Wonder if anyone has the email address for the VP of engineering at WABC. This is kind of off topic but I am trying to get in touch with someone that can fix Pixelation problems on their Directv Sat feed.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bret4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wonder if anyone has the email address for the VP of engineering at WABC. This is kind of off topic but I am trying to get in touch with someone that can fix Pixelation problems on their Directv Sat feed.



While WABC would be interested in the denigration of its signal, the place to complain is DirecTV.


Not positive of this, but I believe that DirecTV picks up local digital signals over-the-air. So, it really is up to DirecTV!


----------



## bret4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While WABC would be interested in the denigration of its signal, the place to complain is DirecTV.
> 
> 
> Not positive of this, but I believe that DirecTV picks up local digital signals over-the-air. So, it really is up to DirecTV!



Your right and your wrong. I went through this with Fox 5 out of NY and they seem to have it fixed now. The station has much more to lose if their program is not watched than Direvtv does. This makes it a higher priority for the station to go after Directv and get things fixed faster. This problem is some kind of software and hardware upgrade they need to do so that the signal from WABC to Directv is clean.


Been there done that. That is why I know I need to talk to someone at WABC engineering. Prefer the VP of engineering. Can't seem to find any email to get in touch with them. In fact one email bounced back as undeliverable.


----------



## bret4

Found what I was looking for. If anyone needs it here it is. [email protected] Good for WABC out of NY Channel 7. Maybe someone will need it for OTA help.


----------



## KKyuubi

CBS 2 News in in HD now, go wild.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KKyuubi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CBS 2 News in in HD now, go wild.



I saw that last night. This upgrade seems to have slipped under the radar, at least for me. I didn't see any big hype about this. I guess maybe that is because the local NBC and CBS beat them to the punch by quite a bit.


----------



## cpto

WABC / DirecTV still seem to be having HD issues. Both were transmitting the SD version of Boston Legal.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpto* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WABC / DirecTV still seem to be having HD issues. Both were transmitting the SD version of Boston Legal.




yeah.. i just watched on (had it on the DVR). the guide info had it listed as HD.


----------



## icemannyr

Just confirming Yankees in HD on WWOR-DT.

Graphics look SD, the PQ looks nice.


----------



## mikeny

good pics..and Cheers to My 9!! The game looked great!


----------



## icemannyr

The other good news is WWOR-DT is able to time shift HD programming.

The My Network shows that did not air due to baseball are on at 11pm and 12am in HD.


----------



## dan57

I thought last night's Yankees broadcast on My9 (OTA) was very good, but not quite up to the PQ standards of YES.


----------



## mikeny

Is anyone else hearing the static burst/pops during the MY 9 HD game tonight?


----------



## tryin2search

Any one else notice that the usually HD ugly Betty is currently in SD.


----------



## tryin2search

Weird the show is in HD now after the commercial break.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone else hearing the static burst/pops during the MY 9 HD game tonight?



I've been switching back and forth between channels 7 & 9, and have heard the bursting popping on both channels a couple of times so far.


----------



## Chris NYC

Anyone know how successful I will be picking up the major networks with rabbit ears? I less than one mile from the ESB. Don't really want to invest in anything expensive just yet, just want to play with unfettered HD.


----------



## SnellKrell

There are so many variables, there is no way to predict how your reception will be.


Rabbit ears can be considered basically for VHF reception (Channels 2-13).


If you are talking about digital reception, which is UHF, you very well may have problems with rabbit ears. If you need a relatively inexpensive, indoor UHF antenna, I recommend

the Silver Sensor. Circuit City sells it made by Philips for about $25.


----------



## ramonv

I use an indoor antenna from Radio Shack and I receive 22 channels.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ....WNYW-DT is the metropolitan area's most powerful station - 990kW using its own antenna on the Empire State Building - transmitting on channel 44....



Not sure that's accurate. I'm out in NJ a bit south of the intersection of Interstates 78 & 287 (near the Bridgewater Mall) and getting my OTA reception out of Philly because I'm partially blocked from NYC stations by the local terrain. The only NYC digital station I've been able to lock in so far is WXTV 41.1 (RF 40). It's at just barely watchable strength -- I do get picture but tons of dropouts because it's just on the edge of solid reception. It's @ 84 on my Voom OTA receiver and I need a steady 85 or better for trouble-free reception. Now, from this link -

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programm...%5D=New%20York 


it's transmitting @ 300KW and 422m height from the Empire State Building. Click on the red balloons to get the station's information. Clicking on the red balloons on the left side of the page will center the map on that station's antenna location.


If you click on the 2nd red balloon for WNYW-DT 5.1, you'll see that there is indeed a construction permit modification for 990 KW and 365 m height. This is at the left side of the page. But the first red balloon for WNYW-DT 5.1 shows its currently licenced information, which is 246 KW & 363 m height.


I am unable to lock in WNYW-DT 5.1 at this time. I'm assuming this is because its power is just under what WXTV 41.1 is currently putting out and also because its height is a bit less. Since I CAN lock in WXTV 41.1 @ 300KW and 422m height (from the Empire State Building), I have to assume that I'd be able to lock in WNYW-DT 5.1 (from the Empire State Building) if it was currently putting out 990 KW. That's more than three times the power of WXTV 41.1, and I'm quite sure I'd be locking it in (and watching it with no problem) if it was at that power level.


As an example, I have also locked in (and can watch with no problem) WMBC, which is @ 1000 KW power but only 193 m height. AND, its antenna is farther away (up by Little Falls). I get that at a signal strength of 90 on my Voom box, which is strong enough to overcome any weather or atmospheric problems.


It looks to me like WXTV 41.1 is the only station actually situated in NYC which is putting out sufficient power to be received by me, even tho' I'm only ~35 miles away. That's why I'm currently watching the Philly stations, even tho' I'm ~50 miles away from their towers, because all of their stations are transmitting at significantly higher power levels. You can add the Philadelphia market to that map link above and check it out for yourself.


Now, I acknowledge that I do have a bit of a terrain problem with NYC stations (that I don't have with the Philly stations) but since I am getting WXTV 41.1 @ 300 KW, I can't imagine why I wouldn't be also getting WNYW-DT 5.1 if it were indeed transmitting at 990 KW, especially since their antennas are at the same exact location.


Bottom line is that I don't think WNYW-DT 5.1 is yet at 990 KW. I think it has to still be at 246 KW.


I certainly HOPE that's the case. Because if I can't get WNYW-DT 5.1 at 990 KW, I'm going to be depressed.


What I'm really interested in getting right now is WWOR-DT 9.1 (MY9) for the Yankee games. I can't quite lock it in. It's apparently currently at 170 KW and 395 m height, again at the Empire State Building, but has a construction permit for 455 m height at (I guess) the Freedom Tower site. The bad news there is that the construction permit also lists the power lower at 143 KW, so I don't know if I'll be able to pull it in at that lower power even tho' the height will be better. Hopefully, they will put out more power than that.


I welcome any input from folks near my location as to their results in getting NYC digital OTA.


----------



## SnellKrell

Your information is out of date.


What I provided, although listed is some places as a Construction Permit, is the true and current power. This comes from a Fox executive engineer.


Trying to compare stations - their power, their channel allocation will drive you crazy. To non-engineersm it make no sense and it's really an exercise in futility.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your information is out of date.
> 
> 
> What I provided, although listed is some places as a Construction Permit, is the true and current power. This comes from a Fox executive engineer.
> 
> 
> Trying to compare stations - their power, their channel allocation will drive you crazy. To non-engineersm it make no sense and it's really an exercise in futility.



If your information is indeed correct, perhaps you could explain to this non-engineer the disparity I listed in my last post.


I should also correct that post to add that I have also locked in WABC-DT 7.1 at a strength of 84. It is listed on the HDTV link as transmitting at 182.4 KW and 455 m height. That's substantially lower power than the 990 KWs you say WNYW-DT 5.1 is currently putting out.


So perhaps you could explain why I'm not getting WNYW-DT 5.1 if it's indeed transmitting at that power?


I'm not saying you weren't told what you claim by some engineer there, I'm just saying that my results aren't at all consistent with that claim. I've had some experience with false or inaccurate claims by station engineers -- for whatever reason.


Perhaps you misunderstood what he was trying to tell you?


But I'll hear your explanation as to why I'm getting WXTV-DT and not getting WNYW-DT.


Both transmitting from the same location and essentially the same height, but with the latter at more than 3 times the power of the former.


And note that the RFs aren't very different (40 vs. 44).


----------



## SnellKrell

I give up!


I can't explain the unexplainable.


I don't misunderstand your questions.


And my information is correct.


Goodbye!


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I give up!
> 
> 
> I can't explain the unexplainable.
> 
> 
> I don't misunderstand your questions.
> 
> 
> And my information is correct.
> 
> 
> Goodbye!



Sheesh! You really need to take a chill pill, dude. First you jump all over me with some comment about "non-engineers" as if you ARE an engineer and DO understand all this stuff that we poor "non-engineers" can't comprehend, and then you don't 'splain nothing when asked. I think you don't know as much as you'd like people to think you do. If you did, you'd offer some explanation. Saying "I can't explain the unexplainable" isn't much of an explanation.


Sorry to impose on your little fiefdom here. Looks to me like you're more than a little upset that I questioned your information. Call me crazy, but I thought this forum was for an exchange of information, not for "showing off."


Chill OUT! This isn't High School ya know.


Updating my situation, I am now in email communication with an engineer at WNYW-DT 5.1 who tells me that they are indeed broadcasting at 990 KW and have been doing so for about a year. But he hasn't as yet offered any explanation as to my discrepancy other than to suggest that perhaps I'm getting TOO MUCH signal, which I seriously doubt.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If your information is indeed correct, perhaps you could explain to this non-engineer the disparity I listed in my last post.
> 
> 
> I should also correct that post to add that I have also locked in WABC-DT 7.1 at a strength of 84. It is listed on the HDTV link as transmitting at 182.4 KW and 455 m height. That's substantially lower power than the 990 KWs you say WNYW-DT 5.1 is currently putting out.
> 
> 
> So perhaps you could explain why I'm not getting WNYW-DT 5.1 if it's indeed transmitting at that power?
> 
> 
> I'm not saying you weren't told what you claim by some engineer there, I'm just saying that my results aren't at all consistent with that claim. I've had some experience with false or inaccurate claims by station engineers -- for whatever reason.
> 
> 
> Perhaps you misunderstood what he was trying to tell you?
> 
> 
> But I'll hear your explanation as to why I'm getting WXTV-DT and not getting WNYW-DT.
> 
> 
> Both transmitting from the same location and essentially the same height, but with the latter at more than 3 times the power of the former.
> 
> 
> And note that the RFs aren't very different (40 vs. 44).



Every receiving location is a unique situation with multiple variables such as path lengths for direct and bounce signals, and wavelength of transmitted signals, and frequency response of receiving antenna and downlead. What you have is basically a big mathematics/geometry/calculus problem. Also know to cause problems is too much signal which "overloads" receiver circuits. What you describe is not surprising. The list of possible solutions is endless, but some likely things to try are an attenuator to reduce signal from receiving antenna, move the receiving antenna around and probe for a sweet spot, try two different antennas (one high gain and one low gain) in two different locations and maybe switch between. Anybody else have other suggestions??


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Every receiving location is a unique situation with multiple variables such as path lengths for direct and bounce signals, and wavelength of transmitted signals, and frequency response of receiving antenna and downlead. What you have is basically a big mathematics/geometry/calculus problem. Also know to cause problems is too much signal which "overloads" receiver circuits. What you describe is not surprising. The list of possible solutions is endless, but some likely things to try are an attenuator to reduce signal from receiving antenna, move the receiving antenna around and probe for a sweet spot, try two different antennas (one high gain and one low gain) in two different locations and maybe switch between. Anybody else have other suggestions??



Thanks for the suggestions. I think the Fox engineer I'm emailing with is suggesting an attenuator -- he actually lives not all that far from me and he says he gets both NYC and Philly OTA digital and has both an attenuator and a pre-amp. Here's what he said to me -

I do run with a pre-amp and an adjustable attenuator. Sometimes, I should say many times I have way too much signal and that only hurts the system. The older receivers are not too adept at handling multipath and the increase in multiple signals with higher signal levels (like when you use a pre-amp or good antenna) causes the signal to cancel out and appear weak or not present. The newer receivers (Referred to GEN-5) are great


Now, although he lives not far from me, he is actually on top of the "ridge" that is partially blocking me from NYC, while I'm very near the bottom of that ridge -- too near the bottom of it, I fear. But as I said, I am getting 2 other NYC stations and a 3rd station broadcasting out of Little Falls (same general direction).


In a subsequent email he said -

If you want to play around get a new USB RX that is of the GEN 4/5 flavor (they are not all that expensive) and plug your antenna into the PC USB RX and I bet you'll see better reception.


I'm not sure what he's talking about there. Perhaps you are?


Anyway, I HAVE played around with the positioning of my antenna, to no avail. I've also tried a smaller antenna that I have, also to no avail. I doubt the problem is too much signal, but maybe it is. Although I don't have an attenuator, I do have some coax that seems to seriously cut back on signal strength, so maybe I could try putting that in line with my antenna connection and see what happens (?).


It if IS too much signal, I think I could live with THAT!










I am getting ALL the Philly digital stations except for WHYY which is broadcasting at low power in my direction. I have a clear path to the Philly towers. I'm also getting WNJT which has its antenna nearer Princeton than Trenton (thus not very far from me) and which I now see is at a pretty weak 46 KW and not much HAAT (282m). It's my strongest station at 99%, which does tend to support the "too much signal" theory, I guess. Then again, I also get WKYW at 99% and that's at 770 KW and 366m HAAT. Of course, it's in the Roxborough antenna farm (suburb of Philly) and thus considerably farther from me than the WNJT antenna.


I also get WLVT in Bethlehem, which is at 47.7 KW and 162m HAAT. Also WFMZ out of the same area which is at 400 KW & 199m HAAT.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In a subsequent email he said -
> 
> If you want to play around get a new USB RX that is of the GEN 4/5 flavor (they are not all that expensive) and plug your antenna into the PC USB RX and I bet you'll see better reception.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what he's talking about there. Perhaps you are?




He's referring to a variety of new tuners that you can plug into your computer using a USB 2.0 connection. Most if not all have the latest 5th generation reception chip from LG. Also I think I read, but not sure, that some of them have attenuation capability to handle overly strong signals. Some of the brands I've seen more frequently are OnAir USB HDTV, DVICO Fusion USB and several others. They are also available as a PCI card if that's better for you. If you do a web search you'll be able to find out more.


----------



## the-sloth

anyone know if any of the locals broadcast HD test patterns that i can record for calibration?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> He's referring to a variety of new tuners that you can plug into your computer using a USB 2.0 connection. Most if not all have the latest 5th generation reception chip from LG. Also I think I read, but not sure, that some of them have attenuation capability to handle overly strong signals. Some of the brands I've seen more frequently are OnAir USB HDTV, DVICO Fusion USB and several others. They are also available as a PCI card if that's better for you. If you do a web search you'll be able to find out more.



Thanks much. I think I'm getting the sense of what he's telling me now. He seems to think that I have a Gen 2 or 3 receiver (the Voom box), which is probably true, and that if I had a Gen 4 or 5 receiver, I'd be much better off and probably able to get his station (resolve the problem, which he thinks is too much signal). Here's the full version of what he said to me -

The Voom boxes are probably Gen-2 or 3 boxes. You would not believe how much better a Gen-5 is. If you want to play around get a new USB RX that is of the GEN 4/5 flavor (they are not all that expensive) and plug your antenna into the PC USB RX and I bet you'll see better reception. LG and Samsung are not making many stand alone boxes any more but they do have some that you can find on the internet if you are interested in a stand alone.


Now, from what he said and what you said, I take it that he's saying that Gen 4 or 5 stand alone boxes aren't very much available anymore, and so he's now suggesting that a (cheaper and more available?) alternative would be this new variety of tuner that you plug into the computer, yada yada yada.


Is that about what you think he's saying to me?


I'm really not interested in getting my computer involved here. I'd prefer to stick with the stand alone tuner and my TV. From a recent discussion on the Philly OTA thread, one member is currently trying to get a new stand alone tuner (to replace his current one) and isn't having much luck getting something suitable. My take on all this is that there aren't a lot of Gen 4 or 5 stand alone tuners out there now, and perhaps this is because all TVs being currently manufactured must have built-in digital tuners? Thus companies are moving away from the manufacture of stand alone tuners? Also, I get the idea that what IS out there are generally tuner/recorder combos (TiVo), which doesn't interest me (and which are relatively expensive)?


That's just my common sense take on it -- I certainly could be wrong.


Anybody have a take on all this?


I'm still having trouble wrapping my brain around the idea that I'm getting too much signal and that's why I can't get 5.1 reception. I certainly didn't have any problem at all getting the Philly stations, and, as I've said, I do get WMBC with no problem, and it's putting out 1000kW.


I did read back a few pages and note that Gary said this @ post #6408 (p. 214) -

All but channels 5.1 and 5.2, of the stations you mentioned, use the Combiner -which in actuality is WCBS-DT's omnidirectional antenna. 5.1 and 5.2 use a separate antenna with a directional pattern.


So if 5.1 is using a directional antenna, that could mean (COULD mean) that their power is somewhat irrelevant to me if they aren't putting much of that power out in my direction.


Just a thought. Probably not the case since my engineer email buddy lives not far from me, and he's getting it.


Now, here's a question: Is there some sort of gizmo that will measure pure and actual signal strength without getting messed up by "too much signal"? Maybe that's the kind of thing this engineer is suggesting I try with this USB RX thing?


The Voom box does have an "aim the antenna" function whereby you simply enter the RF number you're after and it gives you the signal strength it's reading for that RF.


Would that function also be affected by "too much signal"? It's only looking at one RF when in this mode.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really not interested in getting my computer involved here. I'd prefer to stick with the stand alone tuner and my TV. From a recent discussion on the Philly OTA thread, one member is currently trying to get a new stand alone tuner (to replace his current one) and isn't having much luck getting something suitable. My take on all this is that there aren't a lot of Gen 4 or 5 stand alone tuners out there now, and perhaps this is because all TVs being currently manufactured must have built-in digital tuners? Thus companies are moving away from the manufacture of stand alone tuners? Also, I get the idea that what IS out there are generally tuner/recorder combos (TiVo), which doesn't interest me (and which are relatively expensive)?



The sunset of analog will create a vast multitude of useless legacy receivers, and their owners will clamor for DTV set top boxes to continue using them, so surely some enterprising company(ies) will eventually step forward to produce the desired product.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LG and Samsung are not making many stand alone boxes any more but they do have some that you can find on the internet if you are interested in a stand alone.[/color]



Your instincts are right in that there are not too many stand alone tuner boxes currently being produced. Right now the most advanced stand alone is Samsung's DTB-H260F HDTV tuner. It contains Samsung's 5th generation chip and deals with the issues you believe are affecting your reception. The link to the page is Samsung DTB-H260f HD Tuner .


If you're not in a real hurry you can get LG's new 6th generation tuner coming early next year. They will have a version that qualifies for the digital conversion subsidy program, meaning it will be inexpensive. That should help with your reception, otherwise you'll just have to wait for the NY stations to move and upgrade their equipment when the Freedom Tower is completed.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The sunset of analog will create a vast multitude of useless legacy receivers, and their owners will clamor for DTV set top boxes to continue using them, so surely some enterprising company(ies) will eventually step forward to produce the desired product.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your instincts are right in that there are not too many stand alone tuner boxes currently being produced. Right now the most advanced stand alone is Samsung's DTB-H260F HDTV tuner. It contains Samsung's 5th generation chip and deals with the issues you believe are affecting your reception. The link to the page is Samsung DTB-H260f HD Tuner .
> 
> 
> If you're not in a real hurry you can get LG's new 6th generation tuner coming early next year. They will have a version that qualifies for the digital conversion subsidy program, meaning it will be inexpensive. That should help with your reception, otherwise you'll just have to wait for the NY stations to move and upgrade their equipment when the Freedom Tower is completed.



Thanks for the feedback and good info, guys. Looks like the DTB-H260F can be had right now for $179.99, which isn't bad at all. It says it "easily tunes and decodes all 18 ATSC Table 3 broadcast formats." Sheesh. No wonder this stuff is so complicated.


I'm guessing that one of the "18 ATSC Table 3 broadcast formats" is the problem I'm having with the Bethlehem PBS station, WLVT.


As far as waiting for the NY stations to move and upgrade their equipment when the Freedom Tower is completed, I don't know how that's going to help me with my "too much signal" problem I seem to have with 5.1. When I get a chance, I'll try attenuating that signal a bit and see if that makes any difference.


Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## andyng

I'm back after 3 years absent here









Last time I posted on this thread, I got a Zenith HD520 receiver connected to a CM 4288 antenna. I haven't touched those in years till yesterday.

Reconnected those and was able to get CBS, WB, Fox, PBS


Couldn't get NBC. ABC is really weak..



Anyone can give me a quick update on where the stations are now ? I pointed them to Empire State building 3 years ago and was able to get all the channels.


Many thanks...


It will take me a month to read through 210+ pages here. Last I posted, I was on page 23..lol....


----------



## fredd

I'm receiving Fox 5.1 & 5.2 clearly with minimal dropouts but recently the audio channel on 5.2 (WWOR-DT) is out of sync with the video signal leading it by 3-4 seconds. This doesn't occur on any other sub-channels, so I'm guessing it's probably not a receiver problem. Anyone else notice this? (It's a little strange hearing the announcer say Jeter just ripped a double to left when he's still standing at the plate







).

BTW, 9.1 is too weak to watch lately in central jersey -have they reduced their transmitting power?.


----------



## Bootes

5.2 is out of sync and seems to skip frames constantly.


Basically all the channels are on the Empire State Building. NBC is on the GM building, but is at such low power that it's basically impossible to pick up.


I get the best signal from Fox(WNYW) and CBS(WCBS). ABC(WABC) just barely comes in. I almost have CW(WPIX), it drops down too low every few seconds.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fredd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, 9.1 is too weak to watch lately in central jersey -have they reduced their transmitting power?.



No problem at all for me to receive 9.1 in East Brunswick. I have a HUGHES HTL-HD digital tuner (D* satellite tuner that I only use for OTA since my switch back to cable), and a Channel Master roof mounted antenna with amplifier.


----------



## 5w30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bootes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 5.2 is out of sync and seems to skip frames constantly.
> 
> 
> Basically all the channels are on the Empire State Building. NBC is on the GM building, but is at such low power that it's basically impossible to pick up.
> 
> 
> I get the best signal from Fox(WNYW) and CBS(WCBS). ABC(WABC) just barely comes in. I almost have CW(WPIX), it drops down too low every few seconds.



Actually, all the NYC-licensed locals are now at Empire, on a combined antenna.

WNBC was on their [GE former RCA] building for awhile.


----------



## richiekkim

I just purchased a new Samsung plasma and an amplified antenna from Radio Shack. I have been able to get all of the local HD channels, except for WNET Thirteen. I believe that it's located on DT-61, but there's nothing but static. Does anyone else have this problem?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, it's the weakest of the major stations in the New York market, and it does

transmit on Channel 61.


I have to practically do gymnastics with my Silver Sensor antenna to find the one

and only "sweet spot" in my apartment to get a signal.


----------



## ja2bk

Anyone else notice that Eyewitness News 7 now is doing HD graphics during the weather reports? Nothing spectacular, but looks a lot better than before with meteorologist standing in front of an SD graphic with wings (pillar bars.)


How long have they been doing this? (I've been out of town) Didn't catch any news stories from the field to see if they were in 16x9 SD though. Has that been updated also?


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe it was just put on the air this week.


Heard Lee Goldberg, one of the station's meterologists,

mention the new system - said that those watching in SD

will also appreciate the new shaper images.


Hope this helps.


----------



## andyng

Which receiver you guys are using ? I'm still using Zenith Hd520 but thinking about buying Samsung 260F.


----------



## kousikb

Glad to tell you guys that I am getting 35 digital (up from 33) channels pointing my indoor terk HDTVa towards NY from my apt in Piscataway. The additional two channels I am now getting are 9.1 (my9 HD) and 9.2 (FOX SD). I get all the major networks, PBS NY (13.*), Ion (31.*), Latin channels (36.1, 41.1, 68.1), PBS (NJN Trenton and New Brunswick, 50.*, 58.*), 63.* (Foreign Language Channels). All the major networks are not an issue at all. However 13.* is 70% reliable and 31.* is 90% reliable. I love the 13.1, however I am sometimes frustrated with the blockiness of 13.1 at times. Does 13.1 have any plans to increase their power?


----------



## SnellKrell

I doubt if WNET-DT will make any changes until the 2/17/09 switchover date when stations will cease transmitting on their analogue channels and go solely digital.


At that time, this station will only use Channel 13 - but this time for digital. I have no idea of its power.


----------



## andyng

I just adjusted my rooftop atenna and now am able to pull in all channels. NBC was good until my Zenith locked and lost the signal


Probably will need to get a new box.


----------



## GSfromCT

Forgive me if this has been covered already, I haven't been around this thread in a while.

Does anyone have any speculation on what will happen with the Digital switch-over?

It appears the Freedom Tower will not be ready until 2011.

Will the combiner need to be "re-combined"?

To the best of my knowledge, the combiner is tuned for the current stations/frequencies.

After the switch, some stations will be changing frequencies so I believe the combiner will need a "tune-up".

Am I right on this?

If there is changes needed, will this be a major change (new combiner major change) or a minor change?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, things will change.


Of the major NY area's channels, here are the changes:


Channel 2-DT will transmit on 33.

Channel 7-DT will transmit on 7.

Channel 11-DT will transmit on 11.

Channel 13-DT will transmit on 13.


ERPs - don't know.


----------



## KML-224

WCBS-DT on channel 33? What about WFSB-DT (CBS) of Hartford? They're using channel 33 now.


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 33 is currently being used in the NY market by WPIX-DT.


----------



## KML-224

Is it a directional or low-power signal? WFSB-DT runs at least 1 million watts visual ERP from Avon Mountain to the west of Hartford.


----------



## SnellKrell

WPIX-DT transmits on Channel 33 with 160 kW ERP using the Combiner's omnidirectional

antenna atop the Empire State Building.


I have no information what WCBS will be using in 2009 on Channel 33.


----------



## andyng

I have been having problems with WNBC, very weak signal (using Samsung H260F). Suddendly, all WNBC (4-1,4-2,4-4) comes in with no drop.


Did they increase the power ?


----------



## ciaconne

hi there:


I am new to all this. I got a HDTV tuner card, and got a terk hdtva amplified fishbone indoor antenna, and I received nothing. I live in Mamaroneck, NY, really close to the beach/sound. I wonder if there's anybody who can receive signal with just an indoor directional antenna in Mamaroneck? Or is there something wrong with my equipment(notably the tuner card)?


Now I am wondering if the indoor antenna would work if there's a brick wall blocking it from the source of the signal (I checked antennaweb for the orientation. most of the station seems to come from Manhattan)? Thanks.



Dan


----------



## spanky28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andyng* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have been having problems with WNBC, very weak signal (using Samsung H260F). Suddendly, all WNBC (4-1,4-2,4-4) comes in with no drop.
> 
> 
> Did they increase the power ?



Same here. I was able to catch SNL last night without a drop. Usually, WNBC is a no go for me. Checked the signal strength on my H260F and it showed 2/10 bars. Usually it's 1 or none.


Maybe the stars were lined up right. This morning, the reception is back to spotty.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ciaconne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hi there:
> 
> 
> I am new to all this. I got a HDTV tuner card, and got a terk hdtva amplified fishbone indoor antenna, and I received nothing. I live in Mamaroneck, NY, really close to the beach/sound. I wonder if there's anybody who can receive signal with just an indoor directional antenna in Mamaroneck? Or is there something wrong with my equipment(notably the tuner card)?
> 
> 
> Now I am wondering if the indoor antenna would work if there's a brick wall blocking it from the source of the signal (I checked antennaweb for the orientation. most of the station seems to come from Manhattan)? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Dan



Most of the stations are beamed from Empire State Building. Brick Walls in between make it a little difficult. Try the antenna in some other location and preferably at a height, so that you have some space in between the antenna the wall. Antenna placed just beside the wall wouldn't give better results. I stay 26 miles from NY.. I get all the stations.. although I am bit lucky that I have a window which partially overlooks towards ESB. However.. there are lot of trees, building in between... You have to be a litle patient.. but have to find that sweet spot. I also have a similar antenna.. you can check out my setup in my sig.


----------



## andyng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spanky28* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same here. I was able to catch SNL last night without a drop. Usually, WNBC is a no go for me. Checked the signal strength on my H260F and it showed 2/10 bars. Usually it's 1 or none.
> 
> 
> Maybe the stars were lined up right. This morning, the reception is back to spotty.



Same here.


I don't know if you have the same problem with your H260F but I connected mine to an analog TV via S-video. Sometime, the aspect ratio messed up and I can't changed it or get into Menu.


I may have to return and get a new H260F


----------



## Bootes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ciaconne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hi there:
> 
> 
> I am new to all this. I got a HDTV tuner card, and got a terk hdtva amplified fishbone indoor antenna, and I received nothing. I live in Mamaroneck, NY, really close to the beach/sound. I wonder if there's anybody who can receive signal with just an indoor directional antenna in Mamaroneck? Or is there something wrong with my equipment(notably the tuner card)?
> 
> 
> Now I am wondering if the indoor antenna would work if there's a brick wall blocking it from the source of the signal (I checked antennaweb for the orientation. most of the station seems to come from Manhattan)? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Dan



I'm very close to you and using a Philips Silver Sensor on the second floor of my house. I'm able to easily pick up CBS and Fox. I just barely pick up ABC and almost have the CW. I have a window facing the antennas, but I actually get better signal from it facing the wall in a corner of my room.


----------



## SubaruB4

^ Hmm your not that far from me I wonder how my Silver Sensor will do but Im on the first floor but not facing the antenna.. well kinda but half the building is blocking it at 238 degrees


----------



## tryin2search

All the high VHF analog channels in NY will switch their digital signal to their current analog frequency come 2009 except for WWOR 9. Is there any reason why they wouldn't want to. The lower frequency generally makes reception easier for a given power output, wondering why they would give this up?


----------



## ciaconne

hey:


I tried it some more with my Terk HDTVa antenna. It seems that adding an extension Coaxial cable to the antenna hurts the reception. Does this make sense? I added the extension so I could walk around the room and get the antenna closer to the window from where my computer was. I managed to get some signal on fox, but nothing showed up. At least I know now that the tuner card isn't faulty.


However, given that the amplifier did nothing on the signal strength, I'd be interested to know what your experiences are with the silver sensor in the Mamaroneck area. I read some reviews on how it does a better job than the Terk even without amplification. If it works for you guys maybe I'll try it out. They look the same to me physically though.


----------



## SnellKrell

The following article in _Broadcasting & Cable_ is interesting and a bit confusing.


"The FCC has given New York TV stations six months to test a digital TV system that would operate on three channels in the city and fill DTV coverage gaps resulting from the destruction of the World Trade Center on 9/11.


The city and parts of New Jersey otherwise would not get full DTV coverage until the stations can relocate their facilities to the Freedom Tower, which is not expected to be completed until 2011.


WCBS-TV, WNBC-TV, WNYW-TV, WABC-TV, WWOR-TV, WPIX-TV, WNET-TV,

WPXN-TV, WNJU-TV and WXTV-TV, under the banner of the Metropolitan Television Authority, had asked for permission to test the service using vacant channels

12, 33 and 65.


The FCC's permission was granted subject to the condition that broadcasters must inform hospitals and nursing homes that they are testing the service and that it could have an affect on medical devices, and broadcasters are not allowed to begin testing until they can document that notification."


What confuses me is that 3 "vacant" channels are mentioned - 12, 33 and 65.


Channel 33 is currently being used by WPIX and in February 2009 will be the digital channel for WCBS.


If more than three stations want to test this system, and there are only three channels available, then one or more of the test channels would have to multiplex signals to accommodate more than one station.


What happens to HD signals?


It sounds as if this could only work with three stations or just SD signals.


Any further information or insight?


----------



## andyng

Anyone in NYC able to get WNBC-TV or WNET-TV ?


I am able to get CBS, ABC, Fox, WPIX, My9


I look on antennaweb.org and NCB and WNET have the same direction as the other channels but i couldn't lock in.


If you able to get those channels, would you care indicate your receiver ?

Thanks


----------



## ramonv

I'm in the Bronx and I receive these channels:


WCBS

WNBC

WNYW

WABC

My9

WPIX

WNET (weakest signal but watchable)

WPXN

WXTV

WFUT


I receive these channels on a Westinghouse HDTV and on my PC on a Pinnacle USB HD receiver.


----------



## andyng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in the Bronx and I receive these channels:
> 
> I receive these channels on a Westinghouse HDTV and on my PC on a Pinnacle USB HD receiver.



Hi there,

Thanks for the info. This gives me hope.


What section of the Bronx ? Which antenna you use ? any amplifier ?


I have a CM 4228 and the CM amplifier on the rooftop of 6th floor building. I'm around Fordham and 192nd (9 miles from EPS)


Edit: I search and you mentioned you used some indoor model from RadioShack. Can you give the model number ? Do you face the EPS from your window ?

I have no window facing outdoor so I don't know if it will help.


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andyng* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Thanks for the info. This gives me hope.
> 
> 
> What section of the Bronx ? Which antenna you use ? any amplifier ?
> 
> 
> I have a CM 4228 and the CM amplifier on the rooftop of 6th floor building. I'm around Fordham and 192nd (9 miles from EPS)
> 
> 
> Edit: I search and you mentioned you used some indoor model from RadioShack. Can you give the model number ? Do you face the EPS from your window ?
> 
> I have no window facing outdoor so I don't know if it will help.



I'm on 182nd near the Grand Concourse and my antenna is a 15-1868 and I'm facing Creston Avenue looking at Jerome Avenue. If I position the antenna looking towards Manhattan I get less channels. I have 3 windows in my bedroom maybe this is why I get a good signal.


I have another antenna (Came with the Pinnacle USB HDTV Stick) and this one is facing a corner, in the same bedroom but it's also next to the window and I also get the same channels, but with this one sometimes I get WNJU.


----------



## cheerful

Hi,


I am in Newport, NJ, right outside Holland Tunnel, in a high rise building, with windows facing south and west.


1. What's the chance that I can get HD OTA?


2. What antenna should I buy?


3. Any trick to set it up?


Thanks!


----------



## UnnDunn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cheerful* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I am in Newport, NJ, right outside Holland Tunnel, in a high rise building, with windows facing south and west.
> 
> 
> 1. What's the chance that I can get HD OTA?
> 
> 
> 2. What antenna should I buy?
> 
> 
> 3. Any trick to set it up?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



You should be fine, despite lack of direct line of sight. If you're getting an indoor antenna, get a Silver Sensor. Lots of companies make them under various different model numbers (I used to use a Philips PHDTV3). Just point it in the general direction of the ESB and go from there. Don't be afraid to point it in a completely different direction though; you may have more success pulling in a bounce signal.


I'm on the North Shore of Staten Island, underground, and I still managed to pull in WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WABC-DT, WNYW-DT, WWOR-DT, WPIX-DT, WXTV-DT and WNJN-DT well enough for them to be enjoyable using the PHDTV3. I never got WNET-DT though.


----------



## Sean718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're getting an indoor antenna, get a Silver Sensor. Lots of companies make them under various different model numbers.



This is the same as the Terk HDTVa and HDTVi antennas? (J&R has them, for example). Would the amplified or non-amplified version be better...if it's even possible to say. I'm in a ground-floor apartment in Brooklyn with 5-story buildings across the street, but with windows facing Manhattan in general.


----------



## Roger Lococco

the Terks cost more and don't work as well(or at all,in my case).get the unamplified Silver Sensor at Circuit City for $25.


----------



## digitaldoc77

I just got my first HDTV with a digital tuner. I'm located in Nassau county, on the north shore, about 30 miles from midtown. I have a roof top antenna in a house, and I have decent analog reception of 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, and occasionally 21 (I am at the bottom of a hill). Antennaweb.com says that I should get plenty of stations.


Anyway, I fired up the set and during the rain this morn' the only digital station found was 8.1 (which I think is from CT, across the Sound). Now, after the rain, *I'm getting no digital stations*, but my analog reception is fine.


Now, I'm just not sure what to do. Is the problem the new set and the digital tuner? Or is the problem the old antenna? I had read that the old antennae should work fine, but it never really did tune in the UHF channels well so I'm wondering if the HD content is really up there in those frequencies, it won't be suited for this.


Your experience and thoughts are appreciated!


----------



## dturturro

Silly question, but are you sure you're aimed at NY and not CT? Analog stations carry better then digital so you may be receiving them off the side of the antenna. Also, if the antenna's been up there a while the connections may be rusty and failing or just plain loose.


----------



## digitaldoc77

I'm thinking that the problem is that it's so old, that it's a pure VHF antenna. It never really could bring in any UHF stations with any degree of clarity. I'm not sure which way it is aimed, but the analog stations are tuned in ok. 2 and 4 are excellent, and 5 and 7 are very good. 9, 11 and 13 are watchable but have some noise. I get a picture from 20, 21 and 25 but there is tons of interference and they're not really watchable.


----------



## pgardyasz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *digitaldoc77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm thinking that the problem is that it's so old, that it's a pure VHF antenna. It never really could bring in any UHF stations with any degree of clarity. I'm not sure which way it is aimed, but the analog stations are tuned in ok. 2 and 4 are excellent, and 5 and 7 are very good. 9, 11 and 13 are watchable but have some noise. I get a picture from 20, 21 and 25 but there is tons of interference and they're not really watchable.




1) It it's strictly a VHF antenna, then you can't expect it to pick up UHF stations.

2) If it's a combination UHF, VHF antenna, there could be 2 separate elements. I had a similar rooftop antenna, and when I first tried to pick up UHF signals, I connected it to the VHF terminals. Later on, I realized there were separate UHF terminals.

3) GOOD LUCK


----------



## digitaldoc77

Thanks for the luck. I'll start saving up for a new antenna...


----------



## Roger Lococco

is anyone receiving WNYW-DT 5.1 OTA?I have an Accurian receiver,but it doesn't get 5.1,only 9.2,it's lame and bitrate starved.I can also get 38.2,again it's low bitrate.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> is anyone receiving WNYW-DT 5.1 OTA?I have an Accurian receiver,but it doesn't get 5.1,only 9.2,it's lame and bitrate starved.I can also get 38.2,again it's low bitrate.




Yes, we get 5.1 Channel 5.

Funny thing is that every so often, can not get CBS-DT 2.1 in the evenings/prime time. In fact, when that happens, 2.1 doesn't even show as 'available' on our tuner listing of available channels.


----------



## Roger Lococco

thanks,sometimes CBS-DT doesn't come in for me either.


----------



## tryin2search

Hey anybody watching the the Yankees-Mets tonight? Its being shown simultaneously on My 9 and CW 11. My 9 is 720p & CW 11 in 1080i. It's been difficult to make out any real differences in resolution between the two,except in some close ups. From my observation My 9's color is slightly more saturated. I've been switching between the two and noticed CW 11 is @ 1 1/2 - 2 seconds behind My 9.


I'm using the ATSC tuner in my tv, LG Slimfit 30fsd, to compare the two channels. I'm in Southern Westchester @ 14 miles from the ESB.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey anybody watching the the Yankees-Mets tonight? Its being shown simultaneously on My 9 and CW 11. My 9 is 720p & CW 11 in 1080i. It's been difficult to make out any real differences in resolution between the two,except in some close ups. From my observation My 9's color is slightly more saturated. I've been switching between the two and noticed CW 11 is @ 1 1/2 - 2 seconds behind My 9.
> 
> 
> I'm using the ATSC tuner in my tv, LG Slimfit 30fsd, to compare the two channels. I'm in Southern Westchester @ 14 miles from the ESB.



I thought CW11 was slightly better in picture quality.


Also this is probably the only "away"game that the Mets are in HD. I wonder if it's just a matter of them loading up their HD truck, driving over the bridge to the Bronx, and setting up at Yankee stadium? Or is it a lot more involved? I wish all Mets road games were in HD like the Yanks.


----------



## KML-224

Neither feed was in HD here in central Connecticut. WTXX-TV/DT (CW) channel 20/D 12 of Waterbury caries the CW 11 Mets feed and WCTX-TV/DT (MY) channel 59/D 39 of New Haven carries the MY 9 Yankees feed. As for FOX, WTIC-DT (FOX) channel 61/D 31 of Hartford will likely carry the Giants @ Red Sox this afternoon.


----------



## 5w30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought CW11 was slightly better in picture quality.
> 
> 
> Also this is probably the only "away"game that the Mets are in HD. I wonder if it's just a matter of them loading up their HD truck, driving over the bridge to the Bronx, and setting up at Yankee stadium? Or is it a lot more involved? I wish all Mets road games were in HD like the Yanks.



You hit it right on the nail.

Yankee Stadium has HD circuits and fiber in the stadium available for visiting broadcasters.

The truck just had to travel on Astoria Blvd to the Triborough, then off the Deegan at 161st St. About 10 miles as the crow flies.

[Not as short as the distance between Madison Square Garden and the Meadowlands complex, which is about 8 miles, but shorter than the distance between MSG and the Devils' new arena in Newark, about 13 miles.]


----------



## O2C

Thought I'd post what I'm tuning.


Brooklyn Heights/Dumbo/Downtown Brooklyn area.


WinTV-HVR-1600 + Silver Sensor clone pointed out a northern window a bunch of stories up.


WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WABC, WWOR, WPIX, WNYE, WNJN, WFUT (all with assorted subchannels when applicable)


----------



## DaveGee

I had posted this in a discussion thread over in the cable tv area but this is a much better fit for my questions... I hope you guys don't mind the re-post.


So... anyway...


I have cable so this *kinda* doesn't have any impact on me but... I live in Northern NJ - on the WRONG side of a mountain... in other words the side NOT facing New York City.


When it was normal Analog TV and all the NY/NJ antennas were on top of the World Trade Center we were able to get TV reception.


Soon the analog will be turned off forever and digital will be the only game in town... Well not my town ... or the town next to us...


The Towers are gone and the antennas have relocated to the Empire State Building ( I think ) and given some combination of the height difference and the nature of the beast that we call digital transmission... HDTV signals of any type aren't making it thru (at least this was the case last I checked). That HDTV web site ceda? even confirms it.


What does that mean for the tens of thousands who are stuck on the 'wrong side' of this immovable object? Could we REALLY be in a position where our area (a short 24 miles to NYC - less line of sight) will be WITHOUT ANY over the air broadcast options?!?! I can't believe this is going to be the case ... Could this really be happening to tens, multiple tens? of thousands of tax paying property owning United States citizens AND voters?!?!


Yea thats a bit over the top but I'm practicing for when I write a letter to my Mayor and local Congressman.


Like I said... I have cable but the point is... having a home that doesn't have ANY local TV reception is quite distressing and remember this isn't the middle of Nebraska (no offense intended) but 24 miles from NYC!!!


I'd more than welcome any comments...


Dav


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaveGee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had posted this in a discussion thread over in the cable tv area but this is a much better fit for my questions... I hope you guys don't mind the re-post.
> 
> 
> So... anyway...
> 
> 
> I have cable so this *kinda* doesn't have any impact on me but... I live in Northern NJ - on the WRONG side of a mountain... in other words the side NOT facing New York City.
> 
> 
> When it was normal Analog TV and all the NY/NJ antennas were on top of the World Trade Center we were able to get TV reception.
> 
> 
> Soon the analog will be turned off forever and digital will be the only game in town... Well not my town ... or the town next to us...
> 
> 
> The Towers are gone and the antennas have relocated to the Empire State Building ( I think ) and given some combination of the height difference and the nature of the beast that we call digital transmission... HDTV signals of any type aren't making it thru (at least this was the case last I checked). That HDTV web site ceda? even confirms it.
> 
> 
> What does that mean for the tens of thousands who are stuck on the 'wrong side' of this immovable object? Could we REALLY be in a position where our area (a short 24 miles to NYC - less line of sight) will be WITHOUT ANY over the air broadcast options?!?! I can't believe this is going to be the case ... Could this really be happening to tens, multiple tens? of thousands of tax paying property owning United States citizens AND voters?!?!
> 
> 
> Yea thats a bit over the top but I'm practicing for when I write a letter to my Mayor and local Congressman.
> 
> 
> Like I said... I have cable but the point is... having a home that doesn't have ANY local TV reception is quite distressing and remember this isn't the middle of Nebraska (no offense intended) but 24 miles from NYC!!!
> 
> 
> I'd more than welcome any comments...
> 
> 
> Dav




I can't find the article which mentions them setting up a "repeater" antenna for dtv to increase signal to pre 9/11 levels, but this should answer your question...



http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6446284.html 


NYC TVs Get DTV Reprieve

FCC warns it may toughen up on further delays

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 5/21/2007


The FCC has given more time to the overwhelming majority of the 145 TV stations that have yet to finish construction of their digital facilities, including WABC and WNBC New York, which will have until Feb. 17, 2009, to complete their 9/11-devastated transition.


The deadlines for construction were July 1, 2005, for stations affiliated with the Big Four networks (ABC, CBS, Fox, and NBC) in markets 1 to 100, and July 1, 2006, for everybody else. But the FCC has granted extensions for a variety of reasons. Among them: destruction of the New York stations' DTV facilities in the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center.


The commission granted six-month extensions to 107 stations, including WNBC, and set the deadline at Feb. 17, 2009, for 33 stations. Of those stations, 29, including WABC, will broadcast after the DTV switch on a channel different from their current DTV location; four stations want to use the same top-mounted antenna site for their DTV signal that they use for their current analog signal.


Two stations were denied extensions but will be allowed to continue operating analog stations, and another three were denied applications and admonishedan official reprimand.


The commission also warned that it might have to get tougher with stations. It pointed out that they had several years to plan for and finance the DTV construction, noting that many stations had received numerous extensions.


In a recent review of the progress of the DTV transition, the commission said that any further extensions may be subjected to a tougher standard.


According to the FCC, 1,702 stations are currently licensed to broadcast in DTV, with 1,603 on the air with a signal; some of the 145 seeking extensions are on the air but do not meet the minimum build-out requirements for mandated power levels or coverage areas.


----------



## DaveGee

ja2bk,


Thanks for the info and a repeater antenna sounds mighty promising... but somehow I think I'll be OLDER and GREYER







before I see that...


Dave


----------



## bornyank1

Hey all, does anyone know what's going on with WWOR DT 5-2 lately? A few weeks ago it was working wonderfully, and I was getting Yankee games in perfect HD with my OTA antenna. But recently, and even right now, it's only in 480i, and even worse, the top 1/3 or so of the image is distorted and pixellated. I don't understand it, because the other 14 or so channels I pick up work fine with none of this pixellation, and some of them are in HD. It can't be a problem with my TV, and I don't see how it could be my antenna...is it the station? Is anyone else having this problem, and does anyone know how to fix it? Thank you.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNYW, Channel 5 and WWOR, Channel 9 are both owned by Fox.


For some strange reason, one that makes absolutely no sense, WNYW-DT, 5.2 broadcasts WWOR( (9) in Standard Definition, while WWOR-DT, 9.2 broadcasts WNYW also in Standard Definition.


5.2 broadcasting a Yankee game was in Standard Definition, not HD!


Only those ".1" DT stations broadcast HD.


----------



## bornyank1

I could've sworn it was in high def before; is there a station that does broadcast My9 Yankee games in HD OTA? But regardless, do you have any idea what could be causing this strange distortion and pixellation? It makes it almost unwatchable, and it doesn't happen on any other station.


----------



## Slikkster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bornyank1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I could've sworn it was in high def before; is there a station that does broadcast My9 Yankee games in HD OTA? But regardless, do you have any idea what could be causing this strange distortion and pixellation? It makes it almost unwatchable, and it doesn't happen on any other station.



WWOR-DT IS broadcasting in HD on UHF channel 38, remapping to 9.1 on your set.


Do you not get that channel where you are? Whereas WNYW-DT shows WWOR in standard def on 5.2, WWOR-DT shows WNYW standard def on 9.2.


Time to play with your antenna, or have your set rescan for available channels.


----------



## bornyank1

Hmm...OK, I'll have to look for 9.1. I have an RCA antenna with a UHF/VHF knob, which kind of confuses me. I never know where to set it, so I just kind of leave it in the middle. Where should I have it set, and where should I have it set to pick up 9.1 in particular? Thanks.


----------



## benc5

Hey everyone! I just put up the 80" Boom Length, 32-Element Antenna By RadioShack. I live in brooklyn, NY and I got all my HDTV. My HD Channel came perfectly on my HDTV.


----------



## Dave Kristol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't find the article which mentions them setting up a "repeater" antenna for dtv to increase signal to pre 9/11 levels, but this should answer your question...



How's this?


Dave Kristol


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Kristol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How's this?
> 
> 
> Dave Kristol



Thanks... that was the one. Hope DaveGee sees this ...


NYC 9/11 Digital Transition On March 22, 2007, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) awarded $7,855,000 to reimburse New York's Metropolitan Television Alliance (MTVA) for phase one of the NYC 9/11 Digital Television Transition project, for the design and deployment of a temporary digital television broadcast system for 10 television stations throughout the New York City area.


The first phase of the project, to be accomplished in FY 2007, will design and test the system at three to five sites in the New York City metropolitan area. Based on the results of the test sites, MTVA anticipates requesting $21,645,000 by reimbursement in FY 2008 for Phase 2, to complete the full 20 site system in the New York City metropolitan area so it would be operational prior to the digital television transition deadline of February 17, 2009. The transition to digital television will free-up more of the nation's airwaves for advanced wireless broadband services, and interoperable communications among emergency first responders.


The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, which established the digital television transition deadline, provides up to $30 million to reimburse MTVA for the design and deployment costs of the temporary digital television broadcast system. Until a permanent facility is constructed on top of the Freedom Tower, it is necessary to design and install a system to distribute digital signals throughout the New York City area.


New York City and the counties encompassed in this project include the Bronx, Kings, Nassau, New York, Queens, Richmond, and Westchester. The New Jersey counties involved are Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Middlesex, Passaic, and Union.


MTVA was formed after September 11, 2001, when the television stations' digital and analog transmission facilities were destroyed in the collapse of the North Tower of the World Trade Center. The television stations then installed temporary digital and analog transmission facilities on top of the Empire State Building. However, the Empire State Building is not a sufficient site for the distribution of digital television signals because high rise buildings block the signals, interfere with digital reception, and create shadow effects that negate signal reception.


NTIA has current authority to borrow up to $30 million from the Treasury for this program.


----------



## tld

Anyone getting terrible signals from 5.1 and/or 13.1 tonight? I'm in central NJ and tonight I can only get 5.1 by turning my antenna towards the north, were it won't pick up other stations and I can hardly get 13.1 at all.


Since I put together my new MythTV system about a month and a half ago I've been getting everything flawlessly without ever having to move my antenna.


Tom


----------



## tryin2search

After having read the last part of this release, I was wondering if there is data comparing transmissions from the former WTC to the ESB.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> MTVA was formed after September 11, 2001, when the television stations' digital and analog transmission facilities were destroyed in the collapse of the North Tower of the World Trade Center. The television stations then installed temporary digital and analog transmission facilities on top of the Empire State Building. However, the Empire State Building is not a sufficient site for the distribution of digital television signals because high rise buildings block the signals, interfere with digital reception, and create shadow effects that negate signal reception.
> 
> 
> NTIA has current authority to borrow up to $30 million from the Treasury for this program.


----------



## AaronKalb

Can anyone from Hoboken comment on the current channel line-up that I can expect to recieve? I'm going to be right on the river (Stevens) but unfortunately facing away from the city and using an indoor antenna (I hear good things about the Silver Sensor). I am mainly interested in the HD football games.


----------



## neidermeyer

Hi, I am looking for an antenna for my folks in New City, NY. I went to antennaweb and the red zone (medium-directional) looks like it has everything they'd need. Which model antenna would work best for them? Thanks in advance for any assistance. Here's the chart i get at antennaweb:
yellow - uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK NY 189° 25.2 45

yellow - uhf WXTV 41 UNI PATERSON NJ 189° 25.7 41

* yellow - uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON NJ 189° 25.7 40

yellow - uhf WNJU 47 TEL LINDEN NJ 189° 25.7 47

* yellow - uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 56

yellow - uhf WFUT 68 TFA NEWARK NJ 189° 25.7 68

yellow - uhf WNYE 25 IND NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 25

* yellow - uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 44

* yellow - uhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 33

yellow - uhf WPXN 31 ION NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 31

* yellow - uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 ION NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 30

* yellow - uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS NJ 189° 25.7 38

green - vhf WWOR 9 MNT SECAUCUS NJ 189° 25.7 9

green - vhf WPIX 11 CW NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 11

green - vhf WNYW 5 FOX NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 5

green - vhf WNBC 4 NBC NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 4

green - vhf WNET 13 PBS NEWARK NJ 189° 25.7 13

green - vhf WCBS 2 CBS NEW YORK NY 189° 25.7 2

green - vhf WABC 7 ABC NEW YORK NY 192° 28.1 7

* red - uhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK NJ 189° 25.7 61

* red - uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK NY 188° 25.0 28

blue - uhf WNJN 50 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ 221° 20.1 50

blue - uhf WTXX 20 CW WATERBURY CT 75° 58.7 20

blue - uhf WEBR-CA 17 IND MANHATTAN NY 189° 25.7 17

violet - uhf WEDW 49 PBS BRIDGEPORT CT 88° 44.6 49

violet - uhf WRNN-LP 57 IND NYACK NY 92° 12.2 57

violet - uhf WLIW 21 PBS GARDEN CITY NY 140° 37.3 21


----------



## DaveGee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks... that was the one. Hope DaveGee sees this ...



Yes thanks!! I just gotta find out where these other locations are going to be and cross my fingers that I'll be within eyeshot of one of them....


Dave


----------



## tld

Anyone else here picking up NY digital stations from central NJ? As per my previous post above, lately I'm finding that, if there's the least hint of electrical storms, I all but totally loost 5.1 and 13.1. Tonight I can't get them no matter how I turn my antenna.


This never used to happen, and my antenna etc is all fine. Is anyone aware of anything that's changed recently with either of those stations?


Tom


----------



## wmurpht




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tld* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else here picking up NY digital stations from central NJ? As per my previous post above, lately I'm finding that, if there's the least hint of electrical storms, I all but totally loost 5.1 and 13.1. Tonight I can't get them no matter how I turn my antenna.
> 
> 
> This never used to happen, and my antenna etc is all fine. Is anyone aware of anything that's changed recently with either of those stations?
> 
> 
> Tom



I was able to get 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, and 13.1 with an indoor antenna clear as day up till about 2 weeks ago and now i can only get the channels intermitently by constantly changing the position of the antenna. I am in central Westchester right on the hudson and did not have any problems getting all the channels OTA with the antenna in the same position untill recently. Anyone know if something changed with the broadcast of the channels?


----------



## kousikb

I am in Piscataway.. and get all the NY channels except 13.* (Thirteen PBS) and 25.* (NYC TV) and WLIW (21.* different direction) .. both are low powered station.. and probably next winter I may get 13.* like I got before.... I use the Terk HDTVa amplified antenna.. 'coz I am about 26 miles away.. I get all the channels using the tuner in the Olevia 537h and the Hisense USDTV tuner (which is supposedly 4th gen tuner).. and antenna pointed in one direction.. yes i get NJN out of New Brunswick too.. although the antenna is not pointed that way.. but it's a VHF channel.. and I am just 5 miles away from it.


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wmurpht* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was able to get 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, and 13.1 with an indoor antenna clear as day up till about 2 weeks ago and now i can only get the channels intermitently by constantly changing the position of the antenna. I am in central Westchester right on the hudson and did not have any problems getting all the channels OTA with the antenna in the same position untill recently. Anyone know if something changed with the broadcast of the channels?



I don't know if anything changed. I think I know what the issue is with 13.1 for me, and that's simply a low signal all the time. What I think is happening is that, when there's any electrical storm activity, the extra noise is enough to knock it out. I thought I used to get a stronger signal from 13.1.


I probably shouldn't complain as I'm probably about 30 miles away. I'm using a good roof mounted radio shack combination antenna and a channel master mast mounted amp.


Tom


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaveGee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When it was normal Analog TV and all the NY/NJ antennas were on top of the World Trade Center we were able to get TV reception.
> 
> 
> Soon the analog will be turned off forever and digital will be the only game in town... Well not my town ... or the town next to us...
> 
> 
> What does that mean for the tens of thousands who are stuck on the 'wrong side' of this immovable object? Could we REALLY be in a position where our area (a short 24 miles to NYC - less line of sight) will be WITHOUT ANY over the air broadcast options?!?! I can't believe this is going to be the case ... Could this really be happening to tens, multiple tens? of thousands of tax paying property owning United States citizens AND voters?!?!
> 
> 
> Yea thats a bit over the top but I'm practicing for when I write a letter to my Mayor and local Congressman.
> 
> 
> Like I said... I have cable but the point is... having a home that doesn't have ANY local TV reception is quite distressing and remember this isn't the middle of Nebraska (no offense intended) but 24 miles from NYC!!!
> 
> 
> I'd more than welcome any comments...
> 
> 
> Dav



Your old analog reception was probably snowy, but you could watch it. Technically, because of the mountain, you were not in what would be considered the coverage area of the station, but you _could_ choose to watch the channel through the snow. That's why cable TV was brought into many neighborhoods.


Unfortunately, digital does not give you a choice. If the signal is above the signal threshold you get a perfect signal, without snow, just as good as you would get if you were a mile from the station. If, however, the signal is below the threshold you get nothing. No choice to view through the snow. Time to watch cable.


I wouldn't bother to write your Mayor or anyone else. Unless they have the ability to remove the mountain (and all of the voters who live on it) you don't have a prayer. The other side of the coin is that digital TV provides the ability to deliver multiple channels plus other data to more people and locations than before. Unfortunately, you don't appear to be one of them.


----------



## jtsct

I have just installed a Channel Master 4228 antenna with a Channel Master 7775 amplifier. I also purchased a Channel Master mast rotator but it does not work, so I have to return it. I live in Ridgefield, Ct which is approx. 45 miles from the Empire State building. I receive (very good signal) Fox - DT and WABC - DT which are broadcast from the Empire State building. However, I cannot receive WCBS - DT or NBC - DT which are also broadcast from the Empire State building. Can anyone help me? I am at a lost why all the stations broadcast from the Empire State builing do not work.


----------



## jtsct

I have just installed a Channel Master 4228 antenna with a Channel Master 7775 amplifier. I also purchased a Channel Master mast rotator but it does not work, so I have to return it. I live in Ridgefield, Ct which is approx. 45 miles from the Empire State building. I receive (very good signal) Fox - DT and WABC - DT which are broadcast from the Empire State building. However, I cannot receive WCBS - DT or NBC - DT which are also broadcast from the Empire State building. Can anyone help me? I am at a lost why all the stations broadcast from the Empire State building do not work.


----------



## DaveGee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your old analog reception was probably snowy, but you could watch it. Technically, because of the mountain, you were not in what would be considered the coverage area of the station, but you _could_ choose to watch the channel through the snow. That's why cable TV was brought into many neighborhoods.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, digital does not give you a choice. If the signal is above the signal threshold you get a perfect signal, without snow, just as good as you would get if you were a mile from the station. If, however, the signal is below the threshold you get nothing. No choice to view through the snow. Time to watch cable.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bother to write your Mayor or anyone else. Unless they have the ability to remove the mountain (and all of the voters who live on it) you don't have a prayer. The other side of the coin is that digital TV provides the ability to deliver multiple channels plus other data to more people and locations than before. Unfortunately, you don't appear to be one of them.



That's pretty much the answer I was expecting...


24 miles to NYC and yet without paying for cable tv we'd be completely uninformed and unprotected in cases of emergency. This isn't 1807 this is 2007 and I for one would expect more from the powers that be.


Just saying you live on the wrong side of the mountain so you're SOL! Seems so wrong on so many levels. Lets face it, we all know something COULD be done if they wanted to expend the effort (and money) and I'm willing to bet that in other parts of the country where mountains are more prevalent THEY DO come up with solutions for the tax payers.


So sad....


Dave


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaveGee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's pretty much the answer I was expecting...
> 
> 
> 24 miles to NYC and yet without paying for cable tv we'd be completely uninformed and unprotected in cases of emergency. This isn't 1807 this is 2007 and I for one would expect more from the powers that be.
> 
> 
> Just saying you live on the wrong side of the mountain so you're SOL! Seems so wrong on so many levels. Lets face it, we all know something COULD be done if they wanted to expend the effort (and money) and I'm willing to bet that in other parts of the country where mountains are more prevalent THEY DO come up with solutions for the tax payers.
> 
> 
> So sad....
> 
> 
> Dave



And it all started in Pennsylvania when mountains got in the way of providing viewable television. Some smart business people decided to erect a big antenna atop of a high mast on the mountain, strung wire and brought the signal into town.


That was the beginning of cable!


----------



## afiggatt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtsct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have just installed a Channel Master 4228 antenna with a Channel Master 7775 amplifier. I also purchased a Channel Master mast rotator but it does not work, so I have to return it. I live in Ridgefield, Ct which is approx. 45 miles from the Empire State building. I receive (very good signal) Fox - DT and WABC - DT which are broadcast from the Empire State building. However, I cannot receive WCBS - DT or NBC - DT...
> 
> 
> thnaks, I tried to tweak the antenna a few degrees left and right and nothing. My Panasonic plasma has a signal strength indicator and we used it to 'zero-in' on Fox and ABC. So I thought that this would also work for CBS and NBC. BTW, I purchased the Channel Master 7775 preamp. Do you think the Channel Master 7777 preamp would have solve this? I know that it is for VHF and CBS-DT is on UHF, but just a thought.



I'm answering your question here because the forum is for local threads, not user specific threads.


The Channel Master 7775 pre-amp is UHF only, it does not amplify VHF. All of the NYC stations are currently digitally broadcasting on UHF, so you are ok for now. In 2009, WABC 7, WWOR 9, WPIX 11 will switch their digital channel to their current upper VHF analog channel. If you had asked, I would have recommended the CM 7777 over the CM 7775, because the CM 7777 offers more flexibility for VHF.


I don't know why you are not getting WNBC-DT 4 (DT=28) or WCBS-DT 2 (DT=56). Do you get anything on the digital signal meter if you select 28.1 or 56.1? Besides experimenting with the aim of the CM 4228, you should also try it without the pre-amp. You can't just unplug the power supply, you have to bypass the pre-amp at the antenna. Go to tvfool.com and enter your exact location. That should provide some info on the expected general signal strength for the NYC stations.


My brother lives in Ridgefield, so that is why I answered your original post. Perhaps someone else who lives in the general area can comment on their reception.


----------



## TSS_Killer

Hello my fellow New Yorkers. Here's an interesting problem that I have. I purchased a Gen 1 Air2PC card a few months ago, and I've been having trouble with battling interference with the train (I live near Pelham Bay Station and the 6 train el is about 25 feet from the front of the house). Every time the train passes, the signal breaks up. I've tried moving my uni-directional antenna around to the front of the roof facing southwest (as a few other websites told me), but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I have a feeling that it's due to multipath because I get ghosting on the left side of the image when using it on my analog capture card. Another interesting thing that happens is on WNYE's analog signal when the train passes...the color tones become more intense. I'm thinking about purchasing a VBOX Cat's Eye 150 card. Can anyone give me any advice on this matter?


----------



## SnellKrell

According to my information, WWOR-DT will remain on UHF Channel 38 and will not use its analog Channel 9 for digital broadcasting.


----------



## afiggatt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to my information, WWOR-DT will remain on UHF Channel 38 and will not use its analog Channel 9 for digital broadcasting.



You are correct. My mistake, WWOR-DT is listed in the FCC digital selection spreadsheet as staying on UHF 38. So there will be 3 upper VHF digital stations in NYC after the analog shutdown - WABC-DT ABC 7, WPIX-DT 11, WNET-DT PBS 13.


----------



## dturturro

Any updates on future power numbers?


----------



## JayPSU

I'm sorry if this has been listed many times, but could someone tell me which NYC locals are doing their news casts in HD? Thanks, guys.


----------



## SnellKrell

2,4 and 7.


----------



## JayPSU




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2,4 and 7.



Thank you very much, Gary.


----------



## rosscan

New to this. I scored a yellow and am about 12 miles from all the major affiliates here on Staten Island. I've looked through the thread and it appears I'd do best with a non amplified indoor antenna and it would be on the top floor of a 2 story house. My focus would of course be on the HD Channels. What antenna would be best for me at my location? Would this do? If not, I'd like to get a capable one preferrably at a local best buy, circuit city or radioshack B&M. Thanks!


----------



## SnellKrell

If possible, always mount an antenna outdoors.


UHF digital reception vagaries are such, that what works for one person, living just a few feet away from you, may not work for you.


I use an indoor antenna called the Silver Sensor. Search for it on the Internet - it can be had for around 25 dollars. It's about the best indoor antenna available.


----------



## rosscan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If possible, always mount an antenna outdoors.
> 
> 
> UHF digital reception vagaries are such, that what works for one person, living just a few feet away from you, may not work for you.
> 
> 
> I use an indoor antenna called the Silver Sensor. Search for it on the Internet - it can be had for around 25 dollars. It's about the best indoor antenna available.



Thanks for the advice. I heard of the SS But the only place to find it seemed to be online. Is the silver sensor available anywhere I can get my hands on NOW? I'd rather not order it, wait, get it then find out theres a defect or I have no good use for it.


----------



## dturturro

I found one at Sears. Radio Crap probabbly sells it too.


----------



## UnnDunn

"Silver Sensor" is Zenith's brand name for a fairly generic design. Many companies make Silver Sensors under different model numbers, for example the Terk HDTVi and Philips PHDTV1. Most likely you'll be able to find one of those in a local store.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Silver Sensor" is Zenith's brand name for a fairly generic design. Many companies make Silver Sensors under different model numbers, for example the Terk HDTVi and Philips PHDTV1. Most likely you'll be able to find one of those in a local store.




The Terk is NOT based upon Silver Sensor. I bought one from Best Buy, unplugged my Silver Sensor,plugged in the Terk and the picture went away. Plugged Sensor back and picture reappeared


----------



## SnellKrell

Absolutely right about Terk and the Silver Sensor.


The Terk version is a "steal" of the Silver Sensor design which goes back to England and

the BBC.


Terk makes many fine products - but not antennas. Stay far away from this brand's antenna products!


The version I have in the Zenith - the Philips is identical.


----------



## rosscan

I couldn't find the Silver Sensor anywhere locally so I ultimately went for the RCA ANT103 At Best Buy for $19.99 thinking worst case scenario would be to just take it back for a refund. All the channels are coming in crystal clear with the HD ones included. Quality is comparable to my Time Warner Cable box reception. However, Channel 11 CW11 HD Seems to have constant breaking up pixelation and drop outs. Is this a known issue on this station or could it be the antenna and positioning itself? Perhaps a better antenna is needed to prevent this? Other than that everything is great, with WNBC HD Looking the best. I'll be primarily using the antenna with my dvd recorder to record late night HD shows and broadcasts. Is there any other tweaking needed to prevent the breakups and drop outs?


----------



## Slikkster

Your problem with CW11 is quite normal. Not normal in the sense that CW11 has a problem, but normal in the sense that quite frequently you have to make minor pointing corrections with the antenna to get a particular channel. And when you do, it might very well affect reception on other channels. So, you have to spend a little time with it and find what direction works best. Note that because of the tendancy for these types of signals to be reflected off of buildings, objects, etc., having the antenna oriented in the direction of the tower is not necessarily the best position to get the reception you need. So, it's necessary to do a little experimenting.


Does your TV have a signal strength meter for each channel? By using the strength meter, you can find which signals are strongest in a particular direction. If you're not sure, post the model of your TV and we can probably find out for you how to access the menu for the meter.


----------



## cheerful

My TV picked up quite a few channels. 29.x are most empty. Anybody know what these channels are?


Also, anyone know if PBS/13 is available?


thanks!


----------



## Slikkster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cheerful* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My TV picked up quite a few channels. 29.x are most empty. Anybody know what these channels are?
> 
> 
> Also, anyone know if PBS/13 is available?
> 
> 
> thanks!



Channel 29:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFME-TV 


Yes, Channel 13 is available in OTA digital, but appears to be on lower power than other channels and is a dicier reception. You'll probably need to play with the antenna a bit.


----------



## SnellKrell

PBS/13 - WNET-DT (UHF Channel 61) although transmitting from the Empire State Building,

has very low power and many people have trouble receiving its signal over-the air.


----------



## cheerful

Thanks for the info.


AntennaWeb shows 3 PBS stations:


WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK

WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR

WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK


I have amplifier in antenna, which made it possible to pick up channel such as ION. However, out of the 3, I can only get 51.1. WNJN-HD seems to have no programming. I can pick the analog 13 but the picture is not that clear.


----------



## UnnDunn

WNJN-HD broadcasts on a part-time basis (I think during primetime hours.)


----------



## cheerful

The EPG can only display the listing for the current channel. If I change to a different channel in EPG viewer (not the tuner, the information is empty). If I switch channel in the tuner and go back into EPG, it's still empty. It takes a long time to see EPG information for the channel.


----------



## dan57




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNJN-HD broadcasts on a part-time basis (I think during primetime hours.)



Right, and from what I remember NJN out of Montclair and New Brunswick show identical programming so they are redundant. NJN out of New Brunswick is broadcast over the VHF spectrum so you need a VHF antenna to get it. I can't get it 5 miles away in East Brunswick because my roof antenna is UHF only.


----------



## kousikb

Terk have different type of antennas.. omnidirectional and unidirectional. AFAIK, Best Buy sells the omnidirectional version.. I guess TV5.. the silvers sensor clone is HDTVi and HDTVa (the one I have).. both also have the VHF capability. I get 31 digital channels (some of them are obviously blank..e.g. 50-3, 63-3 etc) with the indoor antenna.. I am 26 miles from NY and 5 miles from New Brunswick.. I get both the NJN-HD out of montclair and the New Brunswick one.. during spring.. I used to get 13.*.. which I no longer get these days.. otherwise the channel count would have been more.. ocassionalyy I get some digitals signals out of Philly.. however.. to get it reliably.. I need to point it towards philly.. which I don't prefer.. because my antenna is pointed towards ESB.. and the VHF bunny ear gets the NJN HD out of New Brunswick.. About the non amplified version of the silver sensor... try these two stores.. Circuit City has the Philips PHDTV1.. J&R, PC Richardson has the Terk HDTVi and the HDTVa. Walmart, Best Buy doesn't stock any of the silvers sensor variants..

Hope this helps.. and clears out the confusion for Terk HDTVi/HDTVa


----------



## shlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cheerful* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> AntennaWeb shows 3 PBS stations:
> 
> 
> WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK
> 
> WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR
> 
> WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK
> 
> 
> I have amplifier in antenna, which made it possible to pick up channel such as ION. However, out of the 3, I can only get 51.1. WNJN-HD seems to have no programming. I can pick the analog 13 but the picture is not that clear.



NJN-HD only broadcast between 8 PM and mid night.


----------



## twcinsider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right, and from what I remember NJN out of Montclair and New Brunswick show identical programming so they are redundant. NJN out of New Brunswick is broadcast over the VHF spectrum so you need a VHF antenna to get it. I can't get it 5 miles away in East Brunswick because my roof antenna is UHF only.



all of the NJN channels in NJ are run from trenton and have identical programming. i think there are 5 throughout the state. the hd programming is national feed and identical to wnet's hd feed. they also have pbs kids which wnet has as well and some other channels relevant only to nj residents.


----------



## KML-224

NJN is in Montclair, New Brunswick, Trenton and Camden. A fifth station would be news to me.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cheerful* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The EPG can only display the listing for the current channel. If I change to a different channel in EPG viewer (not the tuner, the information is empty). If I switch channel in the tuner and go back into EPG, it's still empty. It takes a long time to see EPG information for the channel.



Not so, but it's just a technicality. There is nothing in the ATSC standard that prevents a station from including guide information for another channel, but not surprisingly, not many do. I've seen some tuners that cache the guide info from channels as they are watched, so theoretically you could get the full guide by surfing (and staying on) all channels for a while. It won't get updated when your're not watching the station, but it might be useful.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not so, but it's just a technicality. There is nothing in the ATSC standard that prevents a station from including guide information for another channel, but not surprisingly, not many do. I've seen some tuners that cache the guide info from channels as they are watched, so theoretically you could get the full guide by surfing (and staying on) all channels for a while. It won't get updated when your're not watching the station, but it might be useful.




I must be fortunate. My LG lists all channels that I can pick up in the EPG without me being on that specific channel. I don't recall having to navigate to them prior to getting the info, but it is quite possible as I almost always flip through several channels.


----------



## jzareski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I must be fortunate. My LG lists all channels that I can pick up in the EPG without me being on that specific channel. I don't recall having to navigate to them prior to getting the info, but it is quite possible as I almost always flip through several channels.



By any chance does your LG have a sticker that indicates "TVGuide" built in. We have for use two LG DLPs 52inchers that due which currently get the TVGuide from the local PBS station that covers all channels in our area...


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jzareski* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By any chance does your LG have a sticker that indicates "TVGuide" built in. We have for use two LG DLPs 52inchers that due which currently get the TVGuide from the local PBS station that covers all channels in our area...



Nope. No TV Guide built in on this TV. Its an LG 32LC2DU. I can't even get a strong signal on PBS.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search


----------



## O2C

I had to refresh the channel guide in MCE and a couple of the OTA channels have disappeared. I could manually add them back in, but I'm kind of hoping it "fixes itself". Anyone else experiencing something similar?


----------



## andyng

anyone knows what going on with CBS 2.1 ?


It used to be the one with the strongest signal but has disappeared the last few weeks for me.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andyng* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone knows what going on with CBS 2.1 ?
> 
> 
> It used to be the one with the strongest signal but has disappeared the last few weeks for me.




Might best be described as a "car blinker" as in: It works. It doesn't work. It works. It doesn't work. It works....
























Believe me. I know what you mean~


----------



## johninbricknj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andyng* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone knows what going on with CBS 2.1 ?
> 
> 
> It used to be the one with the strongest signal but has disappeared the last few weeks for me.



I'm in central Jersey(50miles from ESB). CBS is my strongest channel. Nothing has changed for me atleast.


----------



## Johnr0836

I've been having trouble with all the NY stations. Since early 2002 my reception of the NY stations has been generally very good to excellant. CBS was always the strongest station. Over the past few months its hit or miss with reception. I haven't been able to receive WWOR at all during this time but I generally get FOX. I tried rotation the antenna but that didn't improve things.


----------



## cmuwallydog

I need some help here... I just got my first HD LCD TV and am trying to figure out how to get OTA transmission. I live in Manhattan Midtown West. I can't seem to get any type of reception at all.


I bought the 'Terk HDTVi High Def Interior Antenna' and it just picks up some local stations but I don't see any HD content.


I'm also a little confused about the Channel nomncalature... (5.1 vs. 5-2) same thing?


Can someone please help or direct me to someplace where I can get some info on the list of stations broadcasting and their respective channels?


Thanks


----------



## KML-224

First of all, what brand of TV did you get and what is its model number? Second of all, does it have one coaxial (cable) input on the back or two?


----------



## cmuwallydog

I got the toshiba 42lx177...it only has one coax on the back


----------



## lost51

I don't know why it is happening but I am getting excellent signals from all NYC stations in Monmouth County, NJ. Did something happened or is the clearing weather affecting this?


----------



## delsoul

I live in Queens and I recently bought the Terk HDTVi for my Samsung DLP. According to antennaweb I should be pointing my antenna northwest for most channels. Putting the antenna closer to the window in this direction brings in some channels but they go in and out so often it's too annoying to watch. I've spent a few days playing around with the positioning and I found that putting the antenna far from the window facing either south or west gives me the best reception. This is facing a concrete wall with more apartments behind it. This doesn't make any sense to me, any suggestion? BTW I'm on the 14th floor.


----------



## Slikkster

It's all experimentation. Remember that the signals are getting bounced around a lot where buildings are. My indoor antenna is facing north, and I'm already north of the ESB (North Queens). Plus, it's not even facing a window. It's facing my living room wall. It's all trial and error.


----------



## seamus21514

This is a bit random, but Channel 7 is getting a new look by Hothaus, and three new sets! They're already HD, but their graphics suck.


----------



## andyng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andyng* /forum/post/11306477
> 
> 
> anyone knows what going on with CBS 2.1 ?
> 
> 
> It used to be the one with the strongest signal but has disappeared the last few weeks for me.



I got strong signal from CBS this morning but lot of breakups...anyone else experience the same ? I"m in north bronx


----------



## dturturro

I was getting some brief audio hiccups on CBS OTA on my TiVo S3. Anyone else get this?


----------



## andyng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/11571225
> 
> 
> I was getting some brief audio hiccups on CBS OTA on my TiVo S3. Anyone else get this?



Can anyone with inside information tell us what's going on with CBS ? did they move/lower the power ?


----------



## SnellKrell

WCBS-DT didn't move.


In fact, CBS's antenna atop the Empire State Building is used by Channels 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13 - what is known as part of the Combiner project.


I believe what you're experiencing are the frustrations of digital UHF transmission - dependent upon humidity, temperature, etc. - you name it.


I use an indoor antenna and I face even more problems having to deal with multipath - it's here today and gone tomorrow!


Can't wait until the analog cutoff and channel allocations power change!


God only knows what things will be like then!!!!


----------



## andyng

Thanks very much Gary,


The reason I ask is that it seems CBS has always been there for the last few there and nothing changed. I haven't experienced something like about 1 month ago, hence my question about their power/location. It used to be the strongest channel for me.


I will try to rotate the antenna to see if it helps. Maybe the fall weather has something to do with it.


Again, thanks for the clarification. I look forward to your update, Gary.


----------



## tryin2search

NBC 4 is having some problem with their OTA and HD cable feed (at least Cablevision). The first 10 minutes after 11 pm there was only a black screen, then a test pattern and then the Tonight Show came on 20 minutes early with an episode from last year looping at 2 points. Test pattern then Tonight Show, back and forth for a few minutes before the 11pm news finally started in progress. The SD feed of the news was running without a hitch on Cablevision.


I haven't seen a test pattern on a television in over 20 years.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmuwallydog* /forum/post/11333104
> 
> 
> I need some help here... I just got my first HD LCD TV and am trying to figure out how to get OTA transmission. I live in Manhattan Midtown West. I can't seem to get any type of reception at all.
> 
> 
> I bought the 'Terk HDTVi High Def Interior Antenna' and it just picks up some local stations but I don't see any HD content.
> 
> 
> I'm also a little confused about the Channel nomncalature... (5.1 vs. 5-2) same thing?
> 
> 
> Can someone please help or direct me to someplace where I can get some info on the list of stations broadcasting and their respective channels?
> 
> 
> Thanks




Terk is a piece of junk. Looks like a Silver Sensor but that's where they part company. 5.1,5.2 is like HD-Radio....sub channels but every sub channel takes away bandwidth from the others on the same channel


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *delsoul* /forum/post/11438106
> 
> 
> I live in Queens and I recently bought the Terk HDTVi for my Samsung DLP. According to antennaweb I should be pointing my antenna northwest for most channels. Putting the antenna closer to the window in this direction brings in some channels but they go in and out so often it's too annoying to watch. I've spent a few days playing around with the positioning and I found that putting the antenna far from the window facing either south or west gives me the best reception. This is facing a concrete wall with more apartments behind it. This doesn't make any sense to me, any suggestion? BTW I'm on the 14th floor.



Chuck the Terk and get the Silver Sensor http://electronics.search.*********/...R40QQsacatZ293


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/11156753
> 
> 
> "Silver Sensor" is Zenith's brand name for a fairly generic design. Many companies make Silver Sensors under different model numbers, for example the Terk HDTVi and Philips PHDTV1. Most likely you'll be able to find one of those in a local store.




The Terk IS NOT the Silver Sensor. The Zenith and Philips ARE


----------



## the-sloth

what gives with WCBS? why aren't they showing the first half of the CBS NFL double header today?


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/11638050
> 
> 
> what gives with WCBS? why aren't they showing the first half of the CBS NFL double header today?



The Giants on FOX are the home team. No other game can be shown local to "protect" the live gate of the home team. That's why the game must be a sellout in order for it to be shown in the local area. If the Giants were IN Green Bay, a game could be shown on CBS opposite.


----------



## the-sloth

i didn't know that.... so the giants v. packers isn't a sell out? that doesn't seem likely.


----------



## UnnDunn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/11639031
> 
> 
> i didn't know that.... so the giants v. packers isn't a sell out? that doesn't seem likely.



If Giants v. Packers were not a sellout, the game wouldn't have been broadcast locally on TV at all. Such is the way of NFL blackouts.


----------



## the-sloth

so you're saying that if the jets play at 1pm and the giants play at 4pm and Fox has the double header.... fox can't show a game at 1pm under any circumstance? that's ridonkulous.


----------



## UnnDunn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/11640241
> 
> 
> so you're saying that if the jets play at 1pm and the giants play at 4pm and Fox has the double header.... fox can't show a game at 1pm under any circumstance? that's ridonkulous.



The idea is if the local team is playing at home, that's the _only_ game you'll be able to see at that timeslot. So if the Jets are at home at 1pm on CBS, there will be no game on Fox at 1pm. Whereas, like today, if the Giants are at home on Fox, there will be no game on CBS.


Again, this is to protect local team ticket revenues and TV advertisers. It's the same all over the country, we're just in the somewhat unique position of having two teams.


Since the Giants and Jets share a stadium, there will never be a situation where both teams are at home on the same weekend.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/11642386
> 
> 
> The idea is if the local team is playing at home, that's the _only_ game you'll be able to see at that timeslot. So if the Jets are at home at 1pm on CBS, there will be no game on Fox at 1pm. Whereas, like today, if the Giants are at home on Fox, there will be no game on CBS.
> 
> 
> Again, this is to protect local team ticket revenues and TV advertisers. It's the same all over the country, we're just in the somewhat unique position of having two teams.
> 
> 
> Since the Giants and Jets share a stadium, there will never be a situation where both teams are at home on the same weekend.



this makes sunday ticket a lot more valuable to the new york market... you've got a 50/50 chance of being screwed out of an out of market game every sunday.


----------



## POWERFUL

When both teams are on the road (that does happen once or twice a season), or playing on different days, we get the network doubleheader.


----------



## dturturro

We also get the double header when the home teams network has the DH. If the Jets are home and CBS has the DH you'll get the OOM CBS game against the Giants and vice versa.


----------



## Roger Lococco

OTA reception of WNBC-DT was all f'ed up tonight, it started breaking up during Chuck, and then just before Heroes the signal dropped out pretty much completely.


----------



## SnellKrell

Watched the same programming OTA, and no problems on the Uppper East Side.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/11719095
> 
> 
> OTA reception of WNBC-DT was all f'ed up tonight, it started breaking up during Chuck, and then just before Heroes the signal dropped out pretty much completely.



Interestingly, for me, Heroes had at least 3-4 different intervals of breakups---but I couldn't be totally sure that it wasn't my antenna. Both of my HD Tivo's that are hooked up to the SAME antenna had the exact same breakups on 4-1 at the EXACT same times. One time that I can recall was at the 36 minute mark. Watching Journeyman at 10pm there were NO breakups during the 1:02 long show. I checked this board as well as the programming board to see if ANYONE was complaining on the Heroes thread for transmission issues but I didn't see any complaints....so I figured it was my setup.


----------



## dswallow

I had similar OTA issues beginning around 8:30pm-9pm or so; why must they screw up transmissions during prime time original programming whenever they do it? I actually had to switch to the cable HD feeds of my locals last night. That's backwards!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dswallow* /forum/post/11724620
> 
> 
> I had similar OTA issues beginning around 8:30pm-9pm or so; why must they screw up transmissions during prime time original programming whenever they do it? I actually had to switch to the cable HD feeds of my locals last night. That's backwards!



The worst part for me was that I was watching on one HD A/V setup that was within 10 feet of a 2nd HD A/V Setup....both recorded Heroes off of 4-1 on HD Tivos....both were hooked up to the same rooftop antenna---both had issues at the SAME spot. Now my OTHER HD Tivos' (hooked up to another rooftop antenna) weren't set to record 4-1...(hell, I think 2 recordings is enough redundancy eh?







)...so I couldn't verify if the issues was a local transmission issue...or my particular setups










So, now, I think I'll have to set a recording off of 4-1 on one setup, 4-1 on the other...because I don't watch TV "live" in my house so real time "checking" isn't an option for me!!!


----------



## netman

Anyone else record or watch NCIS? Anyone watch it from an analog source? I have no voice trac on my capture from last night. I wish I had the analog Tivo setup to record it as a "backup" since I assume the analog signal would not have had the same problem. Anyone else?


As for NBC, I long ago gave up on the OTA signal and capture from my cable feed and that was fine for Heroes just as an FYI.


Andy


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/11730415
> 
> 
> Anyone else record or watch NCIS? Anyone watch it from an analog source? I have no voice trac on my capture from last night. I wish I had the analog Tivo setup to record it as a "backup" since I assume the analog signal would not have had the same problem. Anyone else?
> 
> 
> As for NBC, I long ago gave up on the OTA signal and capture from my cable feed and that was fine for Heroes just as an FYI.
> 
> 
> Andy



It might not be you.

I watched it 'live' last night and during the opening few minutes, it seemed that the lips moved while the voice did not appear. My system was sending the audio through my AVR/surround sound with the plasma (itself) set to 1 (almost silent) on the volume chart. There was music and background noises coming from my surround system (not via the Plasma) Due to a phone call coming in simultaneously, I tried to switch to CC. Some of the dialogue appeared in the cc mode on screen, while most did not. BTW- commercials did have full sound during this interval + my OTA was really using Cablevision 2-1 that does not show unless I manually program in that station.


Due to the timing, I thought that I had screwed up the cc input somehow. But based on your posting, it does not look like either of us caused it.


I switched back to the non cc mode and shortly there after, full voice sound (synced with the lips) returned. In other words, rewatch it (if you have not erased it) and wait until about 5 minutes into the show.


..Mark


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adm* /forum/post/11730804
> 
> 
> wait until about 5 minutes into the show.
> 
> 
> ..Mark



I still have it. I always use CC so I figured I would watch it when I felt more patient and would rely on the CC. Glad to hear they figured it out before the end of the show and will watch it in full. I think I gave up right before they fixed it by what you say. I guess my timing was bad.


Andy


----------



## CynKennard

I recorded the program via Time-Warner Cable and had the same problem. What apparently happened was that the program came down the network as 5.1 channels but WCBS was sending out only 2.0; that is only the left and right channels were present. After about 11 minutes they switched the sound to 5.1 channels and the sound was then OK. A couple of years ago WNBC had the same problem on a couple of shows. Unfortunately in those cases they never corrected the problem during the show. I thought that by this time WCBS wouldn't make such a mistake.


Cynthia


----------



## MSaccardi

There was a problem. No voices could be heard on 2-1 although the background music was there. Program was fine on CBS in Boston over expressvu


----------



## mw390

Odd....Heroes came across flawlessly. I guess it all depends upon where you are, your antenna and the HD tuner one uses. I mostly use the Sony DHG-HD250 + a CM4228 UHF on the roof


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CynKennard* /forum/post/11739891
> 
> 
> After about 11 minutes they switched the sound to 5.1 channels and the sound was then OK...... I thought that by this time WCBS wouldn't make such a mistake.
> 
> 
> Cynthia



There was a time when mistakes like this were considered the worst thing that could happen (dead air) but now it seems no one really cares very much. They had better realize the people watching thier digital transmitter are not "second class watchers" and learn how to operate the stuff already.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/11743128
> 
> 
> There was a time when mistakes like this were considered the worst thing that could happen (dead air) but now it seems no one really cares very much. They had better realize the people watching thier digital transmitter are not "second class watchers" and learn how to operate the stuff already.



Taking long to fix a problem is not sufficient argument to say the networks don't care. As I stated in another thread, tv is more complex than some people imagine. There are a lot of things in the chain prior to a signal reaching your home tv. Digital is not easier than analog. Analog was perfected over time.

Not to mention trying to do two businesses (HD & SD) with their own nuances.


----------



## netman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/11744777
> 
> 
> Taking long to fix a problem is not sufficient argument to say the networks don't care. As I stated in another thread, tv is more complex than some people imagine. There are a lot of things in the chain prior to a signal reaching your home tv. Digital is not easier than analog. Analog was perfected over time.
> 
> Not to mention trying to do two businesses (HD & SD) with their own nuances.




Sorry but I deal with mission critical technology all the time and "gee it is hard" is kind of pathetic. My conclusion is not based on this one incident; it is based on years of evidence. What happened was not likely a problem but very likely carelessness. And BTW, some people understand how complex TV is.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *netman* /forum/post/11750209
> 
> 
> Sorry but I deal with mission critical technology all the time and "gee it is hard" is kind of pathetic. My conclusion is not based on this one incident; it is based on years of evidence. What happened was not likely a problem but very likely carelessness. And BTW, some people understand how complex TV is.



It's not a "gee it is hard" answer. Not really trying to argue. Just wanted to let you know that it is more complex than the analog world. There are probably less things standardized now than analog (see various HD formats, various Dolby delivery methods, audio needing to be delayed to match HD video, etc.) Networks care more than some folks think and are indeed trying to get it right. Getting it done fast doesn't equal getting it done right. You can have it done fast or you can have it done right. Which do you prefer? I'm certain you might like a mix of the two. But certain you want it done right.


----------



## HumptyD

I live on the 11th floor on the upper east side facing south, SW. Just taped two hangers on a cardboard box







and wired straight to coax antenna connect on my panny th-50px60u. I get some watchable reception on the basic channels. Will I get clear reception and possibly more channels if I buy some equipment, like a silver sensor? I look forward to your suggestions!


----------



## UnnDunn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HumptyD* /forum/post/11800191
> 
> 
> I live on the 11th floor on the upper east side facing south, SW. Just taped two hangers on a cardboard box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and wired straight to coax antenna connect on my panny th-50px60u. I get some watchable reception on the basic channels. Will I get clear reception and possibly more channels if I buy some equipment, like a silver sensor? I look forward to your suggestions!



I don't think there is a clear answer to that question. You might, then again you might not. It's all experimentation. You're relatively high up and your apartment faces the Empire State Building, so you've got quite good conditions for receiving all the local channels, so I'd imagine you're already getting all that you can get.


But it can't hurt to pick up a cheap Silver Sensor (you live on the UES, you can afford it.







) and return it if it doesn't deliver the results you want.


----------



## cpto

This isn't a question about reception, per se, but about the signal Channel 11 is broadcasting.


I looked at a couple of the new shows this season and they just didn't look HD to me. CBS, NBC -- even Fox -- had more detail. The picture was noticibly softer on 11.


Can anyone speak to what is happening?


Thanks.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpto* /forum/post/11803402
> 
> 
> This isn't a question about reception, per se, but about the signal Channel 11 is broadcasting.
> 
> 
> I looked at a couple of the new shows this season and they just didn't look HD to me. CBS, NBC -- even Fox -- had more detail. The picture was noticibly softer on 11.
> 
> 
> Can anyone speak to what is happening?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



And I thought Smallville looked better than Prison Break does on Fox. I guess individual monitors probably come into play a bit.


----------



## kcn823

Is anyone else having a problem with 4-1 and 11-1 in NY? I received these channels with no problem until yesterday, now neither of them are showing a signal. All my other OTA's are coming in fine.


----------



## hooshies

Hello everyone,


I've done some searching on the forum and Google, but still somewhat confused.


I have Time Warner internet cable service in my apartment (I live in NYC, north of 86th st). I DO NOT have cable tv service. So the wire running to the cable modem is split in two, one going to the cable modem, and the other connecting directly to my Vizio tv (the tv has a built-in ATSC HD tuner).


So my tv picks up certain OTA (i'm assuming its OTA) channels. For example, channel 1-2 is CBSHD, 1-4 is NBCHD, 1-5 is FOXHD, 1-7 is ABCHD, etc. I also get TNTHD, but it's channel 93-2. The TV is setup in digital mode (the other option is analog, in which case all the HD channels are gone).


Basically my question is this: where can I get a full lineup list of the actual channels that I receive, and which ones are in HD? Also, anyone else have the same setup as I do? Why do I get SO many random channels such as 111-152, 111-153, etc (all the way to 111-176. and at least 15 channels on the 93-X line).


Any help is appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hooshies* /forum/post/11834515
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> I've done some searching on the forum and Google, but still somewhat confused.
> 
> 
> I have Time Warner internet cable service in my apartment (I live in NYC, north of 86th st). I DO NOT have cable tv service. So the wire running to the cable modem is split in two, one going to the cable modem, and the other connecting directly to my Vizio tv (the tv has a built-in ATSC HD tuner).
> 
> 
> So my tv picks up certain OTA (i'm assuming its OTA) channels. For example, channel 1-2 is CBSHD, 1-4 is NBCHD, 1-5 is FOXHD, 1-7 is ABCHD, etc. I also get TNTHD, but it's channel 93-2. The TV is setup in digital mode (the other option is analog, in which case all the HD channels are gone).
> 
> 
> Basically my question is this: where can I get a full lineup list of the actual channels that I receive, and which ones are in HD? Also, anyone else have the same setup as I do? Why do I get SO many random channels such as 111-152, 111-153, etc (all the way to 111-176. and at least 15 channels on the 93-X line).
> 
> 
> Any help is appreciated! Thanks!



Try asking the question at this thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11835467


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hooshies* /forum/post/11834515
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> I've done some searching on the forum and Google, but still somewhat confused.
> 
> 
> I have Time Warner internet cable service in my apartment (I live in NYC, north of 86th st). I DO NOT have cable tv service. So the wire running to the cable modem is split in two, one going to the cable modem, and the other connecting directly to my Vizio tv (the tv has a built-in ATSC HD tuner).
> 
> 
> So my tv picks up certain OTA (i'm assuming its OTA) channels. For example, channel 1-2 is CBSHD, 1-4 is NBCHD, 1-5 is FOXHD, 1-7 is ABCHD, etc. I also get TNTHD, but it's channel 93-2. The TV is setup in digital mode (the other option is analog, in which case all the HD channels are gone).
> 
> 
> Basically my question is this: where can I get a full lineup list of the actual channels that I receive, and which ones are in HD? Also, anyone else have the same setup as I do? Why do I get SO many random channels such as 111-152, 111-153, etc (all the way to 111-176. and at least 15 channels on the 93-X line).
> 
> 
> Any help is appreciated! Thanks!



You are receiving what is known as QAM transmission of channels.


Cable companies are "supposed" to provide their service areas' OTA channels for those television customers (paying customers) who choose not to use

(pay for) a set-top box. TNT-HD is thrown in as a bonus, for some unknown reason.


It sounds as if you installed the splitter yourself to "expropriate" television service.


You really shouldn't be advertising in a public forum that you've done this.


Finally, I don't know of any published list of TWC's QAM channel line-up.


----------



## hooshies

Gary, thanks for the input.


When I moved into this building, there was only 1 cable running into my apartment. I used to just attach that cable to my TV and watch regular channels (no HD, no cable channels, but I still had TNT and TBS, no ESPN, etc).


Then when I signed up for TW internet service, the installer used the existing cable, used a splitter (one to TV and one to the cable modem) and set up the internet. I only started receiving the HD channels when I bought this new Vizio TV that has the HD tuner built-in.


I'm assuming there is nothing wrong with what I've done, considering TW set it up for me.


LL3HD: I didn't ask in that page because I don't have cable TV service, and my channel lineup is completely different from those that have TW cable. I guess I'll have to do some research on the difference between QAM and OTA.


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hooshies* /forum/post/11841531
> 
> 
> ... I don't have cable TV service, and my channel lineup is completely different from those that have TW cable. I guess I'll have to do some research on the difference between QAM and OTA.



The cable that you have attached to your computer _and to your TV_ is coming from TW. This is like getting basic cable service. I do believe that if you post on the local TWNY thread that you will find that there are others that have the same set up and can map out the channels for you.


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/11836684
> 
> 
> You are receiving what is known as QAM transmission of channels.... I don't know of any published list of TWC's QAM channel line-up.



If you went to the TWCNY thread, as I suggested,







then you will see this post. This guy busted out a pretty interesting chart.








http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=12881


----------



## SnellKrell

No cigar!


Yes, the chart is interesting, but bears no resemblance to the unencrypted QAM reception that I receive on two sets and to what the original questioner had asked!


For example, Channel 93.1 is WWOR-DD and Channel 93.2 in TNT-HD - no such listings under QAM on your recommended resource.


So, for our purposes, the chart provides no answers!


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/11878421
> 
> 
> No cigar!
> 
> 
> Yes, the chart is interesting, but bears no resemblance to the unencrypted QAM reception that I receive on two sets and to what the original questioner had asked!
> 
> 
> For example, Channel 93.1 is WWOR-DD and Channel 93.2 in TNT-HD - no such listings under QAM on your recommended resource.
> 
> 
> So, for our purposes, the chart provides no answers!










Sorry..Oh well, it's all encrypted to me.










But the chart is a good bit of informationif for only to see how TW jams a dozen eggs into a ½ dozen carton.


----------



## nokitsch

Hello all. Newbie here with questions. I am getting my HDTV on Tuesday (Sharp Aquos 1080p). As weird as it may sound - I hate television. I am getting the TV to watch DVDs mostly. However, I am also a sports fan, and I would like to watch football in HD. I would hate to get cable just for that, but if needed, I would (wouldn't mind watching the Rangers). How good is your reception of FOX, NBC, and CBS? For now my antenna on the roof has perfect SDTV reception for FOX, and a watchable (a little snow/ghosting) picture on CBS and NBC. Are HDTV on different channels? How do I find them - do I hook up my current antenna and do a channel scan on the TV? Thanks in advance, and my apologies if you've heard it all before. Oh, I am in Brooklyn - 11229.


----------



## seamus21514

I live in Staten Island, and I am interested in Dxing. I am not near any tall buildings, and I am around 175 feet above sea level (on top a hill). I'd really like to get Philadelphia TV stations. Is it possible using the Eyetv Hybrid I have? I also am going to connect my roof antenna to it, and make it point towards Philadelphia? Is this possible via ATSC or NTSC?


----------



## O2C




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nokitsch* /forum/post/11885604
> 
> 
> How good is your reception of FOX, NBC, and CBS? For now my antenna on the roof has perfect SDTV reception for FOX, and a watchable (a little snow/ghosting) picture on CBS and NBC. Are HDTV on different channels? How do I find them - do I hook up my current antenna and do a channel scan on the TV? Thanks in advance, and my apologies if you've heard it all before. Oh, I am in Brooklyn - 11229.



It's hard to say, but I suspect that you've got a decent shot of getting good OTA HDTV via your TV's ATSC tuner. Channels are on different frequencies but your TV should automatically find them and map them accordingly. If you're curious about what you can tune in, I suggest plugging your address into the TVFool site.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seamus21514* /forum/post/11891757
> 
> 
> I live in Staten Island, and I am interested in Dxing. I am not near any tall buildings, and I am around 175 feet above sea level (on top a hill). I'd really like to get Philadelphia TV stations. Is it possible using the Eyetv Hybrid I have? I also am going to connect my roof antenna to it, and make it point towards Philadelphia? Is this possible via ATSC or NTSC?



Having lived on SI (my parents still live there) I think it'll be pretty hard for you to get consistent/reliable signals from the philly OTA stations. I USED to be able to get analog Philly stations years ago but not reliably and not clearly. Having said all that, when I hooked up a rooftop antenna (with a mast mounted pre-amp) a few years ago, I was not able to get them any Philly stations other than the NJ PBS stations out of Montclair and Trenton. You MAY be able to get some of the Philly OTA stations when the tropospheric conditions are right (I think that's the right word--though I haven't even thought of that stuff in years....







--amazing how far OTA reception in the NY/NJ area has come since I started in 2003 when I used to tool around with my OTA antenna trying to pick up OTA staions from Mass/Delaware/MD and the like--which I was able to do...)


Give it a shot though---the worst that can happen is that it won't work! You'll have a better shot (obviously) with a rooftop antenna and the fact that you are 175 feet asl is pretty awesome.


Reality is you'd be gaining some ABC regional sporting events as well as some Phillies games---I'm not sure if the Flyers/Sixers are on OTA as well as local news programming in HD. The PBS stations out of NJ are useless AFA HD programming compared to 13-1 IMHO.


And, if you can I'd recommend getting a rotor for that rooftop antenna. Both of my rooftop antennas are rotor mounted---makes it much easier to fine-tune your reception as well as giving you the ability to rotate towards NYC and Philly (and the NJ stations in North Jersey as well)


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if anyone else with DirecTV DVR'd any of the war episodes and had a showing that WAS NOT "The War"?? In particular the episode titled "A World Without War"....which I believe is the last installment. I set my HDTIVO to record the 10/6 at 7pm showing on 13-1....and the 2:30 recording was of 3 totally different programs!


This was the first episode of "The War" that I *think* I didn't record on it's first airing. This time slot/date was a re-airing of the episode which I think first aired in the middle of the week.


I think this thread had a listing of "The War" re-airings so I'll have to go search for that link to see when this episode will be re-aired on 13-1...especially since it seems that none of the PBS NJ HD stations are showing this.


So....anyone else (outside of D* subs) experience the same thing? Or was the D* guide data just incorrect?


----------



## seamus21514




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/11893696
> 
> 
> Having lived on SI (my parents still live there) I think it'll be pretty hard for you to get consistent/reliable signals from the philly OTA stations. I USED to be able to get analog Philly stations years ago but not reliably and not clearly. Having said all that, when I hooked up a rooftop antenna (with a mast mounted pre-amp) a few years ago, I was not able to get them any Philly stations other than the NJ PBS stations out of Montclair and Trenton. You MAY be able to get some of the Philly OTA stations when the tropospheric conditions are right (I think that's the right word--though I haven't even thought of that stuff in years....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --amazing how far OTA reception in the NY/NJ area has come since I started in 2003 when I used to tool around with my OTA antenna trying to pick up OTA staions from Mass/Delaware/MD and the like--which I was able to do...)
> 
> 
> Give it a shot though---the worst that can happen is that it won't work! You'll have a better shot (obviously) with a rooftop antenna and the fact that you are 175 feet asl is pretty awesome.
> 
> 
> Reality is you'd be gaining some ABC regional sporting events as well as some Phillies games---I'm not sure if the Flyers/Sixers are on OTA as well as local news programming in HD. The PBS stations out of NJ are useless AFA HD programming compared to 13-1 IMHO.
> 
> 
> And, if you can I'd recommend getting a rotor for that rooftop antenna. Both of my rooftop antennas are rotor mounted---makes it much easier to fine-tune your reception as well as giving you the ability to rotate towards NYC and Philly (and the NJ stations in North Jersey as well)



I used to be able to get WPHL in the 1998's pretty well, about the strength of NJN 58. Not anymore though. My fiddiling around has allowed me to finally recive WNET HD via OTA however.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seamus21514* /forum/post/11894637
> 
> 
> I used to be able to get WPHL in the 1998's pretty well, about the strength of NJN 58. Not anymore though. My fiddiling around has allowed me to finally recive WNET HD via OTA however.



Which antenna are you receiving WNET via? The rooftop or that other one you mentioned?


As a kid back in the 80's, I can remember watching Sixers games on analog 17...which I *think* is/was WPHL....


----------



## seamus21514

I'm using Radio Shack amplified rabbit ears, and I moved it barley half a foot, and then I got WNET HD, which previously I couldn't recive anywhere. The antenna I'm trying to hook up is one of the ones that go on top of my sat dish (dormant), and lucky enough for me, that's pointing southwest towards Philly, in the exact direction of what antenna web says is where the Philly transmitter is.


----------



## billyparrott

Anyone else having a problem catching Fox this weekend?

After a year of relatively problem-free reception (Samsung HD tuner, Terk ant.)

Fox 5.1 and 5.2 are gone. I can still catch Fox through 9.2. Are there any alternative channel numbers for Fox or has anything major changed this weekend?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## ARM07470

Fox 5.1 was coming in fine here in Wayne, NJ during the baseball game last night.


----------



## chrismcnally




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nokitsch* /forum/post/11885604
> 
> 
> I would like to watch football in HD. I would hate to get cable just for that, but if needed, I would (wouldn't mind watching the Rangers). How good is your reception of FOX, NBC, and CBS? For now my antenna on the roof has perfect SDTV reception for FOX, and a watchable (a little snow/ghosting) picture on CBS and NBC.



When I lived in 11215 I received those stations with a 25 dollar window antenna from my 3rd floor apt. I used http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx to set up the direction of the antenna. Football looked great in HD. If your TV has a tuner you can just plug in your antenna and scan for the channels.


----------



## chrismcnally




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *billyparrott* /forum/post/11973309
> 
> 
> Anyone else having a problem catching Fox this weekend?



I could not tune in fox this weekend using my "QAM" tuner. I did not try over the air. It was working fine before. I hope someone can answer this, the world series is coming up!


----------



## billyparrott

After 4 days I rescanned all the channels and 5.1 and 5.2 are back. Maybe their alternate channel numbers, whatever they are, changed?


----------



## billyparrott




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chrismcnally* /forum/post/11981032
> 
> 
> When I lived in 11215 I received those stations with a 25 dollar window antenna from my 3rd floor apt. I used http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx to set up the direction of the antenna. Football looked great in HD. If your TV has a tuner you can just plug in your antenna and scan for the channels.



I'm in 11216 and catch 23 channels with a antenna pointed out my window. I'm on the second floor with a back yard but 2 taller buildings on each side and the antennaweb suggestions were useless. I'm pointed about 90 degrees counterclockwise from ESB with the antenna positioned on its back at a 60-70 degree angle into the sky. It took hours of experimentation. Don't give up if you don't catch all channels. You might have to walk the room to find the hot spots. I still can't catch PBS.


----------



## chrismcnally

That's interesting, I now live in 11216 and had a similar experience. There is a reflection off the buildings and pointing in completely the wrong direction I got Fox without a problem and then pointing in the correct direction, moving the antenna to the opposite side of the apt to a window pointing toward the Empire State Building, I could get almost all the local channels except PBS.


----------



## nokitsch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chrismcnally* /forum/post/11981032
> 
> 
> When I lived in 11215 I received those stations with a 25 dollar window antenna from my 3rd floor apt. I used http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx to set up the direction of the antenna. Football looked great in HD. If your TV has a tuner you can just plug in your antenna and scan for the channels.



Yep, I unhooked my roof antenna from my old TV and hooked it into the Sharp, and the picture is absolutely astounding! I'm happy that I don't have to get cable now.


----------



## burlyredyeti

I just got a new Panasonic 1080p Plasma, and I live on the Upper East Side. What kind of antenna would you recommend for me, if I was trying to go the indoor route? I don't wanna spend anything over $50, but I would like to receive a decent amount of basic channels. Unfortunately, my windows all face West and North.


----------



## UnnDunn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burlyredyeti* /forum/post/12054360
> 
> 
> I just got a new Panasonic 1080p Plasma, and I live on the Upper East Side. What kind of antenna would you recommend for me, if I was trying to go the indoor route? I don't wanna spend anything over $50, but I would like to receive a decent amount of basic channels. Unfortunately, my windows all face West and North.



OTA signals don't require line-of-sight, so the direction your windows face doesn't matter all that much. I'm in a basement with one tiny east-facing window in Staten Island, and I was still able to pull in most signals.


----------



## SnellKrell

"require" is the operative word!


In a perfect world, line-of-sight with no obstructions is the ultimate.


I live in Manhattan and don't have line-of-sight - only some 40 blocks from the

Empire State and also situated too low.


The signals I receive ricochet off many buildings on their way to me. I'm using those

deflected signals for over-the-air reception.


Many postings here have talked about using the indoor Silver Sensor - the Philips version of this antenna is available at Circuit City.



Try it. You'll have to be patient - you literally "walk" it around your room noting signal quality and strength of each channel you hope to watch. Then you comprimise!


Although you probably don't want to spend the money, you'll probably end up with a cable installation.


Good luck.


----------



## SRFast

If I live in a co-op building that has a master antenna for OTA VHF channels, will I be able to receive the local HD channels (CBS, NBC, etc.) on an HDTV with a built in ATSC tuner?


TIA....JL


----------



## SnellKrell

You probably won't get much from the master antenna which, as you state is VHF, and being a master antenna, more than likely it doesn't use a wide band antenna.


Currently the only HD channel in the Metropolitan area on the VHF is WNJB-DT, channel 8 assigned to New Brunswick, NJ. It will eventually move its transmitting antenna to the Conde Nast Building in Times Square.


Until the change over to digital in February 2009, all of the other Metro stations are on UHF.


Come February 2009, there will be three digital HD stations in the area.


WABC-DT will then be on channel 7

WPIX-DT will then be on channel 11

WNET-DT will then be on channel 13


Long way around to say forget the master antenna the way its currently constituted.

If the building wants to update its system it can - it will only cost the shareholders money. More than likely, the majority of them already have cable and will be unwilling to approve the expense.


----------



## SRFast

Gary, thanks for your response. I posted the question for my brother in law because he is looking to purchase an LCD HDTV. I guess he'll have to wait until 2009 to watch OTA HD content. Just for giggles, I might take my 19" HDTV to his co-op just to see what we can get.


Regards...JL


----------



## Slikkster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRFast* /forum/post/12070438
> 
> 
> Gary, thanks for your response. I posted the question for my brother in law because he is looking to purchase an LCD HDTV. I guess he'll have to wait until 2009 to watch OTA HD content. Just for giggles, I might take my 19" HDTV to his co-op just to see what we can get.
> 
> 
> Regards...JL



Well, Gary answered accurately, but a very easy way to get OTA UHF is with an inexpensive UHF indoor antenna. You can get them for about $20. Heck, he/you can even try the little loop antenna that comes with many TV's just to see what the reception is like.


I live in a co-op in NW Queens, and my apartment faces East-Northeast. So, there are more than a few walls in between my location and the Empire State Building direction. But I can still pick up the OTA digitals. The signals get a little dicey when people are moving around the living room, but if you're just hanging out watching, they come in fine. Of course, you will probably have to fine-tune the antenna direction for different channels. Most of these ATSC TVs come with Signal Strength meters so you can at least tell if you're moving the antenna in the right direction.


By the way, many times you will get better reception by facing the antenna in a direction that's not directly aimed at the transmitter tower. In other words, you'll get a better signal from one that's bounced to you from another direction than direct.


For indoor antennas, many people swear by the "Silver Sensor", which is usually available for around $20. This model comes under different brand names, like Zenith, Phillips, etc. If you go to Amazon and search for "Philips PHDTV1", you should see it come up for $17.88. Buy something else for $7.12 (to get to $25.00) and you can get free Super Saver shipping. Just make sure to choose Super Saver when checking out. It won't default to that. You need to spend $25.00 to get that option.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/12063063
> 
> 
> You probably won't get much from the master antenna which, as you state is VHF, and being a master antenna, more than likely it doesn't use a wide band antenna.
> 
> 
> Currently the only HD channel in the Metropolitan area on the VHF is WNJB-DT, channel 8 assigned to New Brunswick, NJ. It will eventually move its transmitting antenna to the Conde Nast Building in Times Square.
> 
> 
> Until the change over to digital in February 2009, all of the other Metro stations are on UHF.
> 
> 
> Come February 2009, there will be three digital HD stations in the area.
> 
> 
> WABC-DT will then be on channel 7
> 
> WPIX-DT will then be on channel 11
> 
> WNET-DT will then be on channel 13
> 
> 
> Long way around to say forget the master antenna the way its currently constituted.
> 
> If the building wants to update its system it can - it will only cost the shareholders money. More than likely, the majority of them already have cable and will be unwilling to approve the expense.



I have a CM4228 UHF antenna and I am able to receive decent signals on analog 7,11, and 13. Will I be able to get them digitally in 2009 or must I have

a dual antenna?


----------



## SnellKrell

If you are receiving "decent" signals on 7,11 and 13 now - more than likely, you should be in good shape for the changeover.


Just remember, with digital transmission, you take nothing for granted.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/12093270
> 
> 
> If you are receiving "decent" signals on 7,11 and 13 now - more than likely, you should be in good shape for the changeover.
> 
> 
> Just remember, with digital transmission, you take nothing for granted.



Yeah...they are definitely watchable...thanks very much


----------



## billyparrott

to add to the frustrations of signal reflection and line of site, you have to also consider the area air ports and traffic helicopters during the morning and afternoon rushes. i catch a decent signal considering the reflection from area buildings but when planes or helicopters fly between the ESB and my apartment the signal gets disrupted.


----------



## hphase

The much-heralded "5th Generation" OTA ATSC tuners do wonders with DTV reception, especially if you have lots of signal (reflected or otherwise) which is usually the case in NYC and the close-by suburbs.


What I'd like to know is, whether the tuners in the new ATSC sets (the only ones you can buy starting earlier this year) are doing a good job with OTA signals. My experience has been that either "rabbit-ears," a whip antenna, or a "Silver Sensor" provide good indoor reception. A good VHF-UHF outdoor antenna usually does well, too. So, if you have one of the newer sets, please post the model number and which city you are in (or borough.)


If these recent reports of finnicky indoor reception are with the newer sets, it would be helpful to find out which ones work well and which ones don't, especially for the die-hard "free-TVers."


Thanks!


----------



## nokitsch

Anyone else not getting CBS 2.1 at all today? I am really pissed that I cannot watch the Pats/Colts game.


----------



## SnellKrell

No Problem - coming in loud and clear!


----------



## nokitsch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/12122604
> 
> 
> No Problem - coming in loud and clear!



So strange. I wonder what the heck happened to me, then. I was forced to watch the entire Pats/Colts game on the horrible CBS analogue channel.


----------



## Skyeclad

Was it my set-up or was the Dancing with the Stars audio out of sync with the video for the first 15 minutes tonight.


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/12150299
> 
> 
> Was it my set-up or was the Dancing with the Stars audio out of sync with the video for the first 15 minutes tonight.



It was out of synch for me on TWCNY too for the very beginning.


----------



## Skyeclad

Thanks Larry, I just wanted to confirm this as I'm still in the process of setting up an HTPC and I thought my a/v sync problems were behind me until this happened.


----------



## yuhoo22

I know this may be a stupid question, but how are you guys tuning to 2.1 on your tv? I just bought my tv last night (Sammy Ln-T4053H) and don't get a single channel. I have DirecTV btw....hoping to just get a couple of the "in the clear" channels.


----------



## UnnDunn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yuhoo22* /forum/post/12222551
> 
> 
> I know this may be a stupid question, but how are you guys tuning to 2.1 on your tv? I just bought my tv last night (Sammy Ln-T4053H) and don't get a single channel. I have DirecTV btw....hoping to just get a couple of the "in the clear" channels.



If you have DirecTV, why not just get WCBS-HD from them?


But yeah, if you are using an OTA antenna and it is hooked up properly, doing a channel scan should get 2.1 for you, then simply tuning to channel 2 should make it select 2.1 automatically,


----------



## yuhoo22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/12223227
> 
> 
> If you have DirecTV, why not just get WCBS-HD from them?
> 
> 
> But yeah, if you are using an OTA antenna and it is hooked up properly, doing a channel scan should get 2.1 for you, then simply tuning to channel 2 should make it select 2.1 automatically,



I have the older satellite box....they won't be able to change my satellite and boxes out for 1.5 weeks.


----------



## gregjp48

Hi everyone

I live in Bayside, Queens (11364 is my zip)

Will I be able to pull in an HD signal with an indoor antenna?

I ask because I'm pretty sure I used to have a line of sight view of the skyline from the west-most bedroom, but now there are trees in between me and the ESB. Would I be able to get away with a Terk HDTVi on my second story bedroom, on the east side of the building. Should I face it towards the wall, or do I need to run it from the west side room to the one where the TV is? do I need an outdoor antenna instead?

I'm only 11 miles from the the esb, so I was kind of hoping I would be able to bring in CBS, Fox, UPN, CW, ABC, etc. But I heard that digital reception is line of sight. Is this true? BTW, there's no hills or anything btwn me and Manhattan.


Thanks


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregjp48* /forum/post/12251545
> 
> 
> Hi everyone
> 
> I live in Bayside, Queens (11364 is my zip)
> 
> Will I be able to pull in an HD signal with an indoor antenna?
> 
> 
> Would I be able to get away with a Terk HDTVi on my second story bedroom, on the east side of the building.



My guess is if you're already getting a good signal inside your home then you don't need to go with an external antenna but an external antenna will probably give you more stations and if you put one of those motorized rotators on it you can swing it towards Connecticut etc.


Do you already own the Terk? If not, see if there is any other alternative indoors solutions. I don't know anything about Terk but the mere mention usually brings out a lot of haters claiming that they are overpriced. The same thing usually happens when someone mentions Bose or Monster but that's not important.


----------



## acoustech

I'm in Manhattan, not paying for cable but have a splittler for my Time Warner internet cable so I can get the coax to my Samsung 4065 (w/ ATSC tuner). I get a bunch of DTV channels. Is there any advantage to adding an OTA antenna? Or is this redundant? APologies for the lame question =).


----------



## gregjp48




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LL3HD* /forum/post/12251777
> 
> 
> My guess is if you're already getting a good signal inside your home then you don't need to go with an external antenna but an external antenna will probably give you more stations and if you put one of those motorized rotators on it you can swing it towards Connecticut etc.
> 
> 
> Do you already own the Terk? If not, see if there is any other alternative indoors solutions. I don't know anything about Terk but the mere mention usually brings out a lot of haters claiming that they are overpriced. The same thing usually happens when someone mentions Bose or Monster but that's not important.



I don't own any of it yet. I'm getting an HDTV for Christmas so I figured I would do some research.

I only want channels from NYC.

I don't know what kind of signal I would get since I don't have the TV or antenna yet.


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregjp48* /forum/post/12251893
> 
> 
> I don't own any of it yet. I'm getting an HDTV for Christmas so I figured I would do some research.
> 
> I only want channels from NYC.
> 
> I don't know what kind of signal I would get since I don't have the TV or antenna yet.



Do you have any TV in your home that is not hooked up to a cable (TW) or satellite (DirecTv or Dish) that gets a good over the air picture with rabbit ears? If so, then that’s what I meant—you should be ok for HD.


----------



## gregjp48

to be honest with you I'm not sure. I used to have one and I think it got pretty decent quality. I don't think I can test really because all we have now is cable, and I don't even know where we have a set of rabbit ears. I can try to find them and hook them up to the tv in the other bedroom though.


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregjp48* /forum/post/12252579
> 
> 
> ...all we have now is cable, and I don't even know where we have a set of rabbit ears...



Just in case you are not aware of another option, since you mentioned that you already have cable, you can use a splitter and run a separate cable directly into your new display, assuming it has a QAM tuner and get the locals in HD. According to a poster in the TWCNY thread , you should be able to get the locals and TNT in HD.


----------



## gregjp48

actually I have analog cable, not dtv.


----------



## hphase

You should still be able to get locals in HD. The "digital cable" channels might be trapped out on your cable, though.


----------



## gregjp48

I don't know because our cable has been acting up a lot lately with static and picture breaks and noise. If I can get good reception from an indoor antenna, I will. Plus I'd have to run a cable, an undertaking I don't feel like I want to do. OTA is better quality sans-compression anyway.


I didn't know I could get HD with analog cable. Apparently they send them over the same cable unscrambled?


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregjp48* /forum/post/12274881
> 
> 
> ...our cable has been acting up a lot lately with static and picture breaks and noise.



If you're having a problem with TW, call them and complain. They will set up a free service call and check everything out.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregjp48* /forum/post/12274881
> 
> 
> I didn't know I could get HD with analog cable. Apparently they send them over the same cable unscrambled?



Yes, they do.


----------



## RemyM

*WWOR-HD to show 2 Rangers and 2 Knicks games*


Cable or Broadcast?

It's hard to tell sometimes.


That'll be the case Sunday when NY City broadcast station MY9 WWOR-TV

carries MSG-produced coverage of the New York Rangers vs Dallas Stars

NHL game at 1pm ET.


The stunt is part of a 4-game package for the broadcast station,

including one more Rangers' game (Dec 16 vs Phoenix) and a pair of

New York Knicks' basketball games (Dec 30 vs Chicago and Mar 30 vs

Atlanta). All four games will be produced in HD and feature MSG

announcers. Carriage on WWOR will give MSG increased exposure in the

NY metro market, said Lydia Murphy-Stephans, EVP, Programming and

Production for MSG. WWOR-TV's incentive is obvious, offering coverage

of the white-hot Rangers. The Knicks, while not playing well, are

generating plenty of headlines with reports of internal dissention

between guard Stephon Marbury and coach Isiah Thomas.


MSG is part of Madison Square Garden, L.P., which is owned by the

Dolans' Cablevision Systems Corp, which also owns the Knicks, Rangers

and the Garden itself. WWOR-TV My9 and WNYW FOX 5 are owned-and-

operated by the FOX Television Stations, an owned-and-operated

network broadcast group with 35 stations in 26 markets and covering

nearly 45% of U.S. television homes.

http://www.cable360.net/technology/news/26708.html


----------



## shlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregjp48* /forum/post/12274881
> 
> 
> I don't know because our cable has been acting up a lot lately with static and picture breaks and noise. If I can get good reception from an indoor antenna, I will. Plus I'd have to run a cable, an undertaking I don't feel like I want to do. OTA is better quality sans-compression anyway.
> 
> 
> I didn't know I could get HD with analog cable. Apparently they send them over the same cable unscrambled?



I have the most basic level of cable service. Only over the air channels. I can pick up all OTA digital channels using the QAM tuner on my HDTV.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregjp48* /forum/post/12251545
> 
> 
> Hi everyone
> 
> I live in Bayside, Queens (11364 is my zip)
> 
> Will I be able to pull in an HD signal with an indoor antenna?
> 
> I ask because I'm pretty sure I used to have a line of sight view of the skyline from the west-most bedroom, but now there are trees in between me and the ESB. Would I be able to get away with a Terk HDTVi on my second story bedroom, on the east side of the building. Should I face it towards the wall, or do I need to run it from the west side room to the one where the TV is? do I need an outdoor antenna instead?
> 
> I'm only 11 miles from the the esb, so I was kind of hoping I would be able to bring in CBS, Fox, UPN, CW, ABC, etc. But I heard that digital reception is line of sight. Is this true? BTW, there's no hills or anything btwn me and Manhattan.
> 
> 
> Thanks




Dont get the Terk. Get the Zenith Silver Sensor. And if you live in a 2 story house try and get it up as high as you can


----------



## hoxbox

I seemed to have lost OTA and Cablevision QAM CBS (2.1) /PBS (13.1). Anyone else have this problem? I'm in Brooklyn zip 11205


Edit: picking up 2.1 now still no 13.1 on OTA


----------



## SnellKrell

Has anyone caught up with an article in the New York Sun on 11/20 entitled

"The Incredible Shrinking Freedom Tower"? - http://www.nysun.com/article/66714 


In it, it discusses the very successful experiments conducted by ION Media Networks,

NBC/Telemundo and Richland Towers, a designer and provider of transmission facilities.


The test was to see if a series of low-powered transmission faciliies in New York City all broadcasting on a single frequency could be an alternative to the Empire State Building facility or even the planned Freedom Tower, now slated for completion by 2012.


The Richland system consists of a main, relatively high-powered transmission site in West Orange, New Jersey, providing coverage to most of the market, and the addition of 5 low-powered sites that will serve the remainder of the area. One of the low-powered locations is atop the Bloomberg Building at Lexington Avenue and East 59th-60th Streets in Manhattan.


This could be the answer to our prayers for better and more consistent O-T-A reception.


----------



## n2ubp

Now I know why I can't get any WNBC NY signals out here in Middletown, NY.


----------



## tryin2search

I've got to say that WCBS2 probably has the best HD in NY. The picture quality is second to none. The Victoria's Secret show quality looked awesome. You could see every detail on the models, flawless. That's the kind of video they should have in the stores to demonstrate the capabilities of HD to people.


I've also noticed that their Sunday NFL games are better looking than the ones on Fox or NBC, they're an 8.5 where CBS is a 10. There is less artifacting on fast plays, much sharper image in general. I understand the weather and traffic subchannels, but is there a reason some have a third subchannel or an SD simulcast of their HD transmission? Is there some type of content that broadcasters are actually expecting to come along, or is it just in case something does comes along? Couldn't they add the subchannels in the future instead of now if viable content came along, or is there something I don't know about?


----------



## dturturro

Ah, the beauty of having NO sub-channels. Anyone else notice they tend to have 5.1 issues during their football coverage?


----------



## POWERFUL

There's a thread here about that on the HDTV Programming forum.


----------



## jaypb

Just curious (and don't want to hijack the thread)---for those with DirecTV and an HD receiver that gets the MPEG4 locals---how does the picture quality compare to OTA? I just swung a deal to upgrade another receiver to a new MPEG4 receiver---but I got the HR21---which DOES NOT have an OTA tuner in it--so I'm relegated to using the D* locals to DVR material---but to my eyes the picture quality didn't look as good---but it was only a quick look in comparison to an OTA signal on a totally different TV when I watched "Life" last night on WNBC OTA.


Anyone ?


----------



## gpg

I have OTA and D* NY locals through my HR20. I really don't see a difference on my 50-inch Sony SXRD tv.


----------



## HDugan

Antennaweb wasn't right for me for SD signals so I don't expect high def info to be any better.


Standard def...years ago with a huge Channel Master antenna and pre amp I rceived all locals from NYC and Phili.


My question: Are there maps available to demonstrate where each networks HDTV signal is reaching??? (...Im not talking about the map that shows a single circle around the region).


----------



## LL3HD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDugan* /forum/post/12438406
> 
> 
> Are there maps available to demonstrate where each networks HDTV signal is reaching???



I'm not sure if this thread is your answer but there are some great things here...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480


----------



## flopdanuts

I'm in hoboken, silver sensor or Terk HDTVa or are they pretty much the same thing? Thanks


----------



## O2C




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flopdanuts* /forum/post/12466534
> 
> 
> I'm in hoboken, silver sensor or Terk HDTVa or are they pretty much the same thing? Thanks



Yes and no. Both refer to UHF log-periodic dipole array antennas. But it's sort of like xerox or kleenex or bandaid. Silver Sensor originally referred to Zenith's ZHDTV1 antenna. (I don't think they trademarked it though.) The term silver sensor has become a generic one to describe that style of antenna. You may get worse, the same, or better performance out of that Terk as the original Silver Sensor. mw390 clearly meant the original when he said Silver Sensor. Supposedly, the Philips PHDTV1 is the same as the Zenith ZHDTV1.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flopdanuts* /forum/post/12466534
> 
> 
> I'm in hoboken, silver sensor or Terk HDTVa or are they pretty much the same thing? Thanks



No, they are not!


The Terk HDTVa is an amplified VHF-UHF antenna that goes for almost twice the price of the Silver Sensor.


Although every situation is unique, I wouldn't use an amplified antenna living so close to the Empire State Building. You don't need amplification.


Do you really need an antenna for VHF?


Even with the Febraury 2009 switch to all digital - with 3 local digital stations relocating to the high-VHF band (7, 11 and 13), in my opinion, the

Silver Sensor should serve your purposes better and cheaper.


Both antennas are highly directional, so be prepared to walk the antenna around the room looking for a sweet spot for each channel.


The Silver Sensor is amazing. I use one in a high rise in the canyons of Manhattan.


----------



## boschg

Anybody else having issues receiving the Thirteen channels (13.1, 13.2, 13.2) over-the-air in NYC (from the Empire State Building)?


I was just setting up my DVR (after a complete reset) and can't get these channels anymore with either the DVR or my TV directly. Does anyone else have issues with these?


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *boschg* /forum/post/12485967
> 
> 
> Anybody else having issues receiving the Thirteen channels (13.1, 13.2, 13.2) over-the-air in NYC (from the Empire State Building)?
> 
> 
> I was just setting up my DVR (after a complete reset) and can't get these channels anymore with either the DVR or my TV directly. Does anyone else have issues with these?



I have intermittent issues on a weekly basis with digital 13, but that's (I assumed) because I'm out on the fringes in Central NJ. I figure you'd be OK where you are....unless whey you tried to set up your DVR, 13 was "off air" at that time??


I know for a fact the other night that MOST of the major NYC locals (2/4/7 digital) were off air.....for what I assume was maintenance...but this was from about 2am till 4am ish.


----------



## TSS_Killer

Just a reminder that WNYE's transmitter is now on the Empire State Building. It was down yesterday. The signal went from 39% with dropouts to 100%. However, its PAT is not working, so you'll have to manually add the PIDs.


----------



## mikepier

We are getting the NYJ/TEN game here in NY, but I was just curious, if I had a rooftop antenna, is it possible to pick up stations outside of LI,NY to get the MIA/NE game? This is the coverage map.

http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-16-CBS2.html


----------



## milan03

I live in Astoria, and Ive got the Dish HD VIP622 DVR receiver, which comes with the OTA small antenna that gives me MUCH better picture quality than the Dish networks compressed local HD channels. Its so much better that it makes me not watch anything thats coming through Dish offerings. The only thing is I can only get about 16 channels using that small Dish antenna and only cbs, nbc, fox CW and abc are in hd.

My question is, how many channels do you guys get on average OTA, and which indoor antenna solution do you guys recommend me to get to improve the reception?

Thanks so much!


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/12568837
> 
> 
> We are getting the NYJ/TEN game here in NY, but I was just curious, if I had a rooftop antenna, is it possible to pick up stations outside of LI,NY to get the MIA/NE game? This is the coverage map.
> 
> http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-16-CBS2.html



Depends on if you're close to the cost of LI--WKYW (CBS out of Philly) is THE STRONGEST OTA DT station for me in Central NJ--but for you in LI, you'd have to have considerable height as well as be close to the short...to even have a shot at it. In addition, I doubt the rainy weather would help your chances much today.


I'd gather you'd have a better shot at picking up some DT CBS station from Connecticut over Philly for that matter---but I don't know how well those stations transmit as far as power/distance/transmission pattern


----------



## KML-224

WFSB-DT (CBS) channel 33 is a million watts visual ERP and transmits from Avon Mountain to the west of Hartford. That might be a problem if you're closer to NYC itself. Doesn't somebody there also broadcast on channel 33?


Oh JAYPB? CBS of Philadelphia is *KYW-DT*, with no "W".


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 33 in the New York Metropolitan area is currently WPIX-DT (CW).


Interestingly, come February 2009, WCBS-DT (CBS) will be moving to channel 33.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/12573493
> 
> 
> WFSB-DT (CBS) channel 33 is a million watts visual ERP and transmits from Avon Mountain to the west of Hartford. That might be a problem if you're closer to NYC itself. Doesn't somebody there also broadcast on channel 33?
> 
> 
> Oh JAYPB? CBS of Philadelphia is *KYW-DT*, with no "W".



Oops! I forgot it was one of those quasi-evil stations that only has 3 letters.....


----------



## milan03

Ok i just finished reading about 100 pages in this thread







and realized that I'm pretty much getting in all the OTA channels in NYC, besides the fact that I'm not locking in WNET and IONs as well as ABC most of the time. Not sure if the ABC sends low power signal here in Astoria Queens, but its a ***** to get 60+ percent on that channel. Now, I am using dish network's VIP622 DVR that comes with a small "piece of wire" antenna about 8 inches long.

Please give me your opinion: will unamplified Silver Sensor be enough for me to improve the signal on the channels my receiver memorized in auto search but has a hard time locking in with the piece of crap wire antenna my dish receiver has.


Thank you so much guys!!!


Btw: Just realized how compressed dish network's channels are after I experienced few OTA HD channels.


----------



## SnellKrell

milan03 -


Welcome!


First, WABC-DT uses the Combiner antenna on the Empire State Building, as does, 2,4, 9,11 and 13. The transmission pattern is omni-directional - so, there are no specific areas that have low power. WNET-DT is notoriously difficult to receive. It suffers from very low power and it transmits at the highest frequency in the metropolitan area.


I would recommend your trying the Silver Sensor - do not try an amplified version - Astoria is much too close, and would more than likely overload your tuner.


I use the Silver Sensor in Manhattan and it's really quite good. All of this must be taken with a big grain of salt. Digital, UHF transmission in an urban area can be fickle - you never know what you're going to get. Try the Silver Sensor and walk it around your room look for "sweet spots" for each channel.


Good luck and Merry, Happy!


----------



## POWERFUL

That small piece of wire is for the UHF remote, not for reception. See the last two episodes of dl.tv for more details about that.


----------



## milan03




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/12579470
> 
> 
> That small piece of wire is for the UHF remote, not for reception. See the last two episodes of dl.tv for more details about that.



It totally works for pulling in some OTA channels! Signal levels on CBS and NBC are over 80% lol! I didnt know thats for the remote







So I guess if i'm getting decent reception with that little wire, Silver Sensor should be just enough.


----------



## sfkramer

Apologies if I am in the wrong site or this has been answered (I searched the thread for a while). I just moved to central Long Island (South shore, in Brookhaven/Bellport). We don't watch TV much and would only really need networks, which now seem like we can get HD on some of them. We are debating installing an antenna but I have no idea if I would really get these channels or not. I looked on Antennaweb.org and there are some stations 9 miles away, 40 miles away, and 56 miles away (NYC). Before I go buy an antenna and fall off my roof installing one, I wondered if anyone else gets decent reception from an antenna in a similar location or situation.


Thanks very much.


----------



## DTVDAD

I'm in Huntington, so I can't tell you much, but call the guys at LNL in Syosset. They are very knowledgeable and helpful and will tell you if it will work and suggest the best antenna for your situation. They helped me out and they are reasonably priced. If you need a good installer who is also reasonably call Mike at ABS Satellite, tell him that Adam from Huntington sent you his way. Good luck.


----------



## bigevan23

I recently moved from NYC to Long Island City into one of the buildings right on the water in front of the old Pepsi-Cola sign. My apt is all windows where my plasma is located with an open view of the entire east-river. I'm wondering if I should pick up an OTA antenna and see what kind of reception I get. While I didn't have the time to go through the entire thread, is my situation optimal for being able to receive HD OTA signals?


Also, how many HD channels come in OTA, it seems that they are far superior to the compressed providers...I'm just wondering how many come in clearly. Any recommendations for the best antennas (with a reasonable price) out there?


Thanks for all the help, its a bit daunting to go through this thread.


Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## spanky28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigevan23* /forum/post/12799892
> 
> 
> I recently moved from NYC to Long Island City into one of the buildings right on the water in front of the old Pepsi-Cola sign. My apt is all windows where my plasma is located with an open view of the entire east-river. I'm wondering if I should pick up an OTA antenna and see what kind of reception I get. While I didn't have the time to go through the entire thread, is my situation optimal for being able to receive HD OTA signals?
> 
> 
> Also, how many HD channels come in OTA, it seems that they are far superior to the compressed providers...I'm just wondering how many come in clearly. Any recommendations for the best antennas (with a reasonable price) out there?
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the help, its a bit daunting to go through this thread.
> 
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.



From the East Village I was able to pull in all the major networks & WNET using a Samsung DTB-H260F STB receiver combined with a Philips PHDTV1 indoor antenna.


I'm sure your line of vision to the Empire State Building is better than the one I had from a 5th floor walk-up.


----------



## billyparrott

After a year of no PBS using a tunerless 42" Sylvannia monitor, a Samsung DTB-H260F, and a Terk antenna, I finally upgraded to a Panasonic 42pz700u with the same Terk. I am finally pulling PBS in, though not in HD.


What is the alternate channel number for 13.1?


Also, the signal strengths are all much stronger with the tuner in the TV than I ever got with the Samsung box top. The picture quality is amazing.

The Panasonic is NICE!


----------



## SnellKrell

"What is the alternate channel number for 13.1?" If you mean a different PBS-HD station in the metro area, it's channel 50.5, WNJN out of Montclair, NJ.


Unfortunately, the HD signal is only available in the evenings.


Hopes this answers your question.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/12815383
> 
> 
> "What is the alternate channel number for 13.1?" If you mean a different PBS-HD station in the metro area, it's channel 50.5, WNJN out of Montclair, NJ.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the HD signal is only available in the evenings.
> 
> 
> Hopes this answers your question.





Hey Gary,

Thanks for the info/response. I also have been seeking to find the HD broadcast for 13 PBS-Hd. Unfortunately, in Longuyland [at this moment 8:35PM] (Cablevision- using the tuner) 50-5 (while it showed as 1081) came up as "unavailable".


..Mark


----------



## SnellKrell

I'm getting a bit confused.


Are we talking about O-T-A (Over-the-Air) reception or using Cablevision?


If you are trying to receive WNET-DT in HD, 13.1, it is very difficult for many to receive.

It transmits on UHF channel 61, the highest allocation in the market, and has the lowest power.


If we are talking about using Cablevision, you should have no problem finding 13.1 on your cable box. It should be found on channel 713.


----------



## billyparrott




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/12815383
> 
> 
> "What is the alternate channel number for 13.1?" If you mean a different PBS-HD station in the metro area, it's channel 50.5, WNJN out of Montclair, NJ.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the HD signal is only available in the evenings.
> 
> 
> Hopes this answers your question.



Thanks Gary. I was asking about the OTA channel.

In the past people posted alternate channel numbers here....like entering 581 to get to Fox 5.1 (581 is just an example, not the actual number). There were times when I entered 5.1 but couldn't pick up the channel, yet when I entered the higher number, the tuner found it. I was hoping there was something like that for PBS. I was checking during the day though so I'll check tonight to see if HD is coming through.

thanks again.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/12815591
> 
> 
> I'm getting a bit confused.
> 
> 
> Are we talking about O-T-A (Over-the-Air) reception or using Cablevision?
> 
> 
> If you are trying to receive WNET-DT in HD, 13.1, it is very difficult for many to receive.
> 
> It transmits on UHF channel 61, the highest allocation in the market, and has the lowest power.
> 
> 
> If we are talking about using Cablevision, you should have no problem finding 13.1 on your cable box. It should be found on channel 713.




It is probably me and mostly, I am a bit confused.

I was under the impression that you can get the OTA HD stations that are on the lower end of the Cablevision feed (ie 2-->13 & 21 WLIW) via their cable line to the house. I do NOT have the OPTONLINE premium that would provide the >700+ number channels.


However, I have been able (via my Panny 50px600u using its QAM tuner) to pick up additional stations (most are HD, some are not) that are on the feed that are not listed in cables guide, nor are they on my Panny TVguide since that takes its feed directly through the Coax [no stb] (2.1 CBSHD, 4.1 NBC HD, 4.2/4.4 NBC, 5.1, 7.1 13.1-3, 21.1-3) All are HD.


The thing is that I do get 13 PBS (SD), 13.1 HD, 13.2 E/I (HD). However, the 13.1 is NOT the same programing as the one appearing on the 13. That was the reason for my original query as a follow up thankyou for your posting.


If you or anyone can tell me of another location below the 700 level where this would work great. Much abliged for the attempt.


Thanks.

..Mark


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TSS_Killer* /forum/post/12563972
> 
> 
> Just a reminder that WNYE's transmitter is now on the Empire State Building. It was down yesterday. The signal went from 39% with dropouts to 100%. However, its PAT is not working, so you'll have to manually add the PIDs.



That was a surprise. I did a scan today and it popped up. Even though I'm in Manhattan, I never got even a whiff of their signal before. Not that there's much on there to watch...


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/12821953
> 
> 
> That was a surprise. I did a scan today and it popped up. Even though I'm in Manhattan, I never got even a whiff of their signal before. Not that there's much on there to watch...



C'mon....the traffic camera channel (25-2?) rocks......static and all.....,










I can't be the only one getting static on the audio track can I be...?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adm* /forum/post/12821731
> 
> 
> It is probably me and mostly, I am a bit confused.
> 
> I was under the impression that you can get the OTA HD stations that are on the lower end of the Cablevision feed (ie 2-->13 & 21 WLIW) via their cable line to the house. I do NOT have the OPTONLINE premium that would provide the >700+ number channels.
> 
> 
> However, I have been able (via my Panny 50px600u using its QAM tuner) to pick up additional stations (most are HD, some are not) that are on the feed that are not listed in cables guide, nor are they on my Panny TVguide since that takes its feed directly through the Coax [no stb] (2.1 CBSHD, 4.1 NBC HD, 4.2/4.4 NBC, 5.1, 7.1 13.1-3, 21.1-3) All are HD.
> 
> 
> The thing is that I do get 13 PBS (SD), 13.1 HD, 13.2 E/I (HD). However, the 13.1 is NOT the same programing as the one appearing on the 13. That was the reason for my original query as a follow up thankyou for your posting.
> 
> 
> If you or anyone can tell me of another location below the 700 level where this would work great. Much abliged for the attempt.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ..Mark



Concerning channel 13 (SD) and channel 13.1 (HD), the feed for 13.1 in HD is in actuality PBS's national High Definition feed, rebranded by WNET.


It is not the same as watching WNBC-DT and expecting it to be a simulcast of WNBC (SD).


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/12826399
> 
> 
> Concerning channel 13 (SD) and channel 13.1 (HD), the feed for 13.1 in HD is in actuality PBS's national High Definition feed, rebranded by WNET.
> 
> 
> It is not the same as watching WNBC-DT and expecting it to be a simulcast of WNBC (SD).



Thanks for the clarification. I was trying to figure out why it was not the simulcast of the SD(on 13) in HD (when it was 13.1).


Appreciate it.

..Mark


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/12821953
> 
> 
> That was a surprise. I did a scan today and it popped up. Even though I'm in Manhattan, I never got even a whiff of their signal before. Not that there's much on there to watch...



When I saw that it was available here out of curiousity I added it manually and was surprised at how strong the signal is. I am surprised that they stretch the picture to 16:9. At first I thought I had accidentally hit the aspect ratio button on my remote, but no. One question is, what is the point of the channel?


----------



## O2C




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/12853426
> 
> 
> When I saw that it was available here out of curiousity I added it manually and was surprised at how strong the signal is. I am surprised that they stretch the picture to 16:9. At first I thought I had accidentally hit the aspect ratio button on my remote, but no. One question is, what is the point of the channel?



The channel actually does have a couple shows I've enjoyed watching. The aspect ratio problem is a huge turn off for me though. I sent them an e-mail complaining about it before. Maybe if more people did the same they might fix things. Probably not though.


----------



## seamus21514

The ratio is off on 25...looks like crap.


----------



## bigevan23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spanky28* /forum/post/12814775
> 
> 
> From the East Village I was able to pull in all the major networks & WNET using a Samsung DTB-H260F STB receiver combined with a Philips PHDTV1 indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> I'm sure your line of vision to the Empire State Building is better than the one I had from a 5th floor walk-up.



Well I look out the window and its right in front of my face, so if my reception is coming from there I suppose I'll have absolutely no problem. Its literally a straight-shot to the building.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/12821953
> 
> 
> That was a surprise. I did a scan today and it popped up. Even though I'm in Manhattan, I never got even a whiff of their signal before. Not that there's much on there to watch...



i can't get this with either of my HR20s (directv hd dvr). it doesn't have the ability to scan for OTA channels. it uses the guide data supplied by tribune to map OTA locals. i can't imagine me not being able to pull this channel being in chelsea. any chance tribune has the mapping screwed up? anyone have any ideas?


----------



## mw390

Did the combiner transmitter go out? All I can get is Channel 5 in HD


----------



## mw390

Is everyone out there comatose? No responses to my question above? Almost all my channels went out except for WNYW-5.


----------



## mw390

My bad. My coax from my amp was flaky


----------



## sys_epoll

Tonight, pretty much lost 5 DT, not completely gone, but a big loss

in signal. Analog 5 was okay, as well as (digital) 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, 2.1

were doing fine. Anyone else see a decrease in signal from 5.1?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sys_epoll* /forum/post/12974598
> 
> 
> Tonight, pretty much lost 5 DT, not completely gone, but a big loss
> 
> in signal. Analog 5 was okay, as well as (digital) 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, 2.1
> 
> were doing fine. Anyone else see a decrease in signal from 5.1?



For what it's worth, WNYW-DT (5.1 and 5.2) is not a part of the Combiner -

it has its own antenna on the ESB.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/12975887
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, WNYW-DT (5.1 and 5.2) is not a part of the Combiner -
> 
> it has its own antenna on the ESB.



yeah I know, that's what made me suspect it was a combiner problem as I was getting just 5.1,5.2 9.1,9.2


----------



## mw390

And btw, I emailed WCBS a within a couple of hours an engineer who works there emailed me via his Blackberry that everything there was ok. Nice guy


----------



## O2C

Anyone know the e-mail of a WNBC engineer, preferably one that works on their local news? Can you fire them an e-mail and get them to stop cropping their remote SD camera shots to 16:9, zooming in, and then running way too much edge enhancement on the resulting mess? It looks godawful. Just pillarbox the 4:3 shots like the with all the network and stock footage and only use 16:9 for remotes when you actually buy cameras that can shoot it.


----------



## 5w30

Put 2 and 2 together.

The vice president and news director at WNBC has control over the look and feel of the station.

His name is a matter of public record. Google WNBC and news director.

Email formats at NBC are [email protected] 

FYI, their field cameras can shoot HD. It's the transmission format [microwave and/or satellite] that can't or won't for the most part ... microwave beacuse of the lack of bandwidth, satellite due to lack of easily useable encoding/decoding equipment.


Go with God.


----------



## leonsun

I am having trouble receiving NBC via OTA.


I live in Flushing of Queens. I have a internal antenna, and I am able to pull in all the major stations except NBC. Just wonder if other people can watch NBC in Queens?


I used to live in Manhatta, and it was fine there.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leonsun* /forum/post/13000310
> 
> 
> I am having trouble receiving NBC via OTA.
> 
> 
> I live in Flushing of Queens. I have a internal antenna, and I am able to pull in all the major stations except NBC. Just wonder if other people can watch NBC in Queens?
> 
> 
> I used to live in Manhatta, and it was fine there.



What is the antenna model?


----------



## smirnoffski

In Fresh Meadows, Queens here.

I have a Toshiba 26HL47 connected to a Phillips MANT510 amplified indoor antenna.


All I get are snowy analog channels, no digital channels whatsover.

I have the amplification all the way up.


I am on the bottom floor of a brick two story house in a residential area.

All my windows face east.


I've moved the antenna all over my apartment but still no digital channels.


What are my remedies short of a large rooftop antenna?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smirnoffski* /forum/post/13004509
> 
> 
> In Fresh Meadows, Queens here.
> 
> I have a Toshiba 26HL47 connected to a Phillips MANT510 amplified indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> All I get are snowy analog channels, no digital channels whatsover.
> 
> I have the amplification all the way up.
> 
> 
> I am on the bottom floor of a brick two story house in a residential area.
> 
> All my windows face east.
> 
> 
> I've moved the antenna all over my apartment but still no digital channels.
> 
> 
> What are my remedies short of a large rooftop antenna?



Check to make sure that the TV is set to Antenna and not Cable.


----------



## leonsun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/13000967
> 
> 
> What is the antenna model?



It's a TERK Indoor Antenna.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leonsun* /forum/post/13007816
> 
> 
> It's a TERK Indoor Antenna.




Piece of crap. Get a Silver Sensor at ebay. Search on PHDTV1



I also saw it at Circuit City


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/13005946
> 
> 
> Check to make sure that the TV is set to Antenna and not Cable.




See my post above. If I could get channels in Levittown 23 mi east of ESB you can too. Zenith Silver Sensor PHDTV1. Also buy an amp. I used a CM7777


----------



## MPW777

I have an Olevia 232V 32" HDTV (built in tuners for OTA) and am trying to get OTA digital broadcasts. I am in NNJ. This is actually my son's, but I am borrowing it from him. I last used it at the end of the summer it could pick up fox (5.1), and channels 41 and 50/51. Now it can only get 41, 51 and 68 after a scan. Scans were done on both air and cable settings.


Trying to better understand the real issue here I have been doing some research. I have used antennaweb.org to determine potential stations. I gather from some of the posts on this site that there are those who do not feel this is a reliable resource; however, I believe it is good enough for my purposes as I am close to the source, no real interference issues, and get excellent OTA analog signals.


Most of the channels, according to antennaweb.org, are coming from the same direction (160 degrees, which if I understand this correctly is 20 degrees east of south). This seems to explain 41 and 68, but 51 comes from 212 degrees. Thus it appears the antenna has a significantly wide range.


All the major stations and independents (2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13) are listed at the same distance and direction, so I assume their antennas are located together, but I can't get a one of them in. They are in the same direction and distance as the ones I can get. I tried manual entering in the actual frequency into the TV, but it can't find the signal. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the majors have a weaker signal then these lesser stations.


I am at a loss to make sense of this, perhaps someone can comment on this.


----------



## smirnoffski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/13005946
> 
> 
> Check to make sure that the TV is set to Antenna and not Cable.



Yes, it is set to Antenna.


Although yesterday I did manage to pick up 9.1 and 9.2 (which is a 480i version of Fox)

But no luck with anything else.

Even those two channels are hit and miss and need to adjust my antenna ears to a very sensitive sweet spot. They come in at 3 bar signal strength but can drop off very quickly.


Anything else I should try?


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smirnoffski* /forum/post/13008907
> 
> 
> Yes, it is set to Antenna.
> 
> 
> Although yesterday I did manage to pick up 9.1 and 9.2 (which is a 480i version of Fox)
> 
> But no luck with anything else.
> 
> Even those two channels are hit and miss and need to adjust my antenna ears to a very sensitive sweet spot. They come in at 3 bar signal strength but can drop off very quickly.
> 
> 
> Anything else I should try?



Antenna ears???


How far are you from the ESB?


What kind of antenna do you have??


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vkristof* /forum/post/13009066
> 
> 
> Antenna ears???
> 
> 
> How far are you from the ESB?
> 
> 
> What kind of antenna do you have??



Exactly!


What kind of antenna are you using?


When I read "antenna ears" its sounds as if you're using rabbit ears and not a UHF antenna that will give you a shot at getting reception.


At this time, all of the New York Metropolitan area digital stations transmit on UHF frequencies.


Get yourself a decent indoor UHF antenna - I highly recommend the Silver Sensor.


But, please answer the antenna question. What are you using????


----------



## smirnoffski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/13009678
> 
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> What kind of antenna are you using?
> 
> 
> When I read "antenna ears" its sounds as if you're using rabbit ears and not a UHF antenna that will give you a shot at getting reception.
> 
> 
> At this time, all of the New York Metropolitan area digital stations transmit on UHF frequencies.
> 
> 
> Get yourself a decent indoor UHF antenna - I highly recommend the Silver Sensor.
> 
> 
> But, please answer the antenna question. What are you using????



As noted in my initial post, I am using a

Phillips MANT510 amplified indoor antenna (It is UHF/VHf of course)


----------



## SnellKrell

Sorry I didn't notice your first posting which includes the info about the antenna model.


The Philips gets fairly decent reviews.


Here are some thoughts:


Try a Silver Sensor - but it at Circuit City so you can return it without problems if it doesn't make a difference for you.


Also, I've noticed that when you're walking an antenna around a room looking for a

"sweet spot," you have to move slowly and be patient. On my set up, there's a bit

of delay from when you stop at a location and the screen/signal meter reacts.


Wish you well - I know, it's very frustrating!


----------



## lecxe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/12401182
> 
> 
> I've got to say that WCBS2 probably has the best HD in NY. The picture quality is second to none. The Victoria's Secret show quality looked awesome. You could see every detail on the models, flawless. That's the kind of video they should have in the stores to demonstrate the capabilities of HD to people.
> 
> 
> I've also noticed that their Sunday NFL games are better looking than the ones on Fox or NBC, they're an 8.5 where CBS is a 10. There is less artifacting on fast plays, much sharper image in general.....




I agree and disagree. I think that CBS does have the sharpest picture but I do see blocking on fast motion images on that channel. I think it's due to the limitations of the 1080i signal that they use. I don't see the blocking on Fox's programming (as they use 720p) but their picture isn't as sharp as CBS.


BTW... for anyone who cares I'm in Jersey City, NJ on the top floor of a four story condo building atop a cliff. I also have perfect line of sight to the ESB (aprox 3-4 miles away) with no obstructions. I'm using a Radio Shack antenna;model 15-1868. Cheers.


----------



## 5w30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lecxe* /forum/post/13018930
> 
> 
> I agree and disagree. I think that CBS does have the sharpest picture but I do see blocking on fast motion images on that channel. I think it's due to the limitations of the 1080i signal that they use. I don't see the blocking on Fox's programming (as they use 720p) but their picture isn't as sharp as CBS.
> 
> 
> BTW... for anyone who cares I'm in Jersey City, NJ on the top floor of a four story condo building atop a cliff. I also have perfect line of sight to the ESB (aprox 3-4 miles away) with no obstructions. I'm using a Radio Shack antenna;model 15-1868. Cheers.



WCBS also doesn't use sub-channels that eat up bandwidth ... like WNBC, WABC and WNET.


----------



## jefbal99

I saw a bit of the NYC Fox stations HD Super Bowl broadcast on DirecTV. I was very impressed, but I think the MPEG4 compression added a bit of swimming grass noise that I didn't see on my local Fox's OTA HD broadcast.


Liked seeing the NYC local commercials though.


----------



## ghostie

Since my original post is lost due to the server failure, let me repost an abbreviated version:


I've been considering the Channel Master 4221, but am put off by it because it's UHF only. After the 2009 DTV cutoff, there will still be 3 channels (7, 11, 13) that will remain in VHF. That leads me to think a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna is better, but the "gain" isn't nearly as powerful. Any recommendations?


I'm only around 9 miles away, in the Brooklyn (Sunset Park/Bay Ridge) area.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghostie* /forum/post/13034567
> 
> 
> Since my original post is lost due to the server failure, let me repost an abbreviated version:
> 
> 
> I've been considering the Channel Master 4221, but am put off by it because it's UHF only. After the 2009 DTV cutoff, there will still be 3 channels (7, 11, 13) that will remain in VHF. That leads me to think a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna is better, but the "gain" isn't nearly as powerful. Any recommendations?
> 
> 
> I'm only around 9 miles away, in the Brooklyn (Sunset Park/Bay Ridge) area.



7-13 are in the higher VHF band and may still tune with the CM. Try tuning in the analog channels with it and see how you do.


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghostie* /forum/post/13034567
> 
> 
> Since my original post is lost due to the server failure, let me repost an abbreviated version:
> 
> 
> I've been considering the Channel Master 4221, but am put off by it because it's UHF only. After the 2009 DTV cutoff, there will still be 3 channels (7, 11, 13) that will remain in VHF. That leads me to think a Channel Master 3016 VHF/UHF antenna is better, but the "gain" isn't nearly as powerful. Any recommendations?
> 
> 
> I'm only around 9 miles away, in the Brooklyn (Sunset Park/Bay Ridge) area.



Wow....I wasn't aware of that about channels 7, 11, and 13. Are they giving up their current DTV UHF frequencies (45, 33, and 61) in 2009?


Currently I have a Radio Shack 120" combination antenna with a CM 7777 amp which actually has worked quite well (I'm in central NJ). I thought I was eventually going to possibly get a new UHF only antenna...guess not.


Tom


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT is giving up 45 and will go to 7.


WPIX-DT is giving up 33 to will go to 11. But, WCBS-DT has to leave 56, and will be moving to the then vacated 33.


WNET-DT has to give up 61, and will be moving to 13.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/13048514
> 
> 
> WABC-DT is giving up 45 and will go to 7.
> 
> 
> WPIX-DT is giving up 33 to will go to 11. But, WCBS-DT has to leave 56, and will be moving to the then vacated 33.
> 
> 
> WNET-DT has to give up 61, and will be moving to 13.



i've downloaded the FCC documents that list all of the changes across the country, but is there a more consumer friendly site that lists the changes for each market?


----------



## lostdvd

I recently purchased a Terk HDTVa anetenna. I live in Manhattan on the lower east side on the 23rd floor apartment and I do not have line of sight to the Empire State building. At the beginning I was able to get channel 4 and 5 ota hd. Funny thing is that I tried different areas to get the rest and was unsucessful. I experimented by instead of having my antenna tilted up, I had the nose touch the window sill facing down and I was able to get channel 11 hd. I dunno why but this is the only way I can pick up channel 11 hd. However, I'm still having problems getting channel 2 and 7 hd, but I can get their analogue's ok. Any ideas besides the basic trial and error? Thank you.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lostdvd*  /forum/post/13054185
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a Terk HDTVa anetenna. I live in Manhattan on the lower east side on the 23rd floor apartment and I do not have line of sight to the Empire State building. At the beginning I was able to get channel 4 and 5 ota hd. Funny thing is that I tried different areas to get the rest and was unsucessful. I experimented by instead of having my antenna tilted up, I had the nose touch the window sill facing down and I was able to get channel 11 hd. I dunno why but this is the only way I can pick up channel 11 hd. However, I'm still having problems getting channel 2 and 7 hd, but I can get their analogue's ok. Any ideas besides the basic trial and error? Thank you.



for what's it worth terk antennas are notorious for being... well, horrible. i've had good luck with silver sensor indoor antennas in manhattan apartments.


----------



## lostdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13055587
> 
> 
> for what's it worth terk antennas are notorious for being... well, horrible. i've had good luck with silver sensor indoor antennas in manhattan apartments.



I thought about silver sensor ones? Any you recommend? From what I've read is either Zennith or Philips.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lostdvd* /forum/post/13055656
> 
> 
> I thought about silver sensor ones? Any you recommend? From what I've read is either Zennith or Philips.



they are both the same... circuit city usually has them in stock, i picked up mine at the CC in union square.


----------



## lostdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13055681
> 
> 
> they are both the same... circuit city usually has them in stock, i picked up mine at the CC in union square.



Is there any difference between the Zenith Zhdtv1 and the Philips PHDTV1 antennas?


Thank you


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lostdvd* /forum/post/13056052
> 
> 
> Is there any difference between the Zenith Zhdtv1 and the Philips PHDTV1 antennas?
> 
> 
> Thank you



nope, same thing.


----------



## lostdvd

Blah, I'm getting a little frustrated with the Terk HDTVa. I've tried different positions and still can't get channel 2 and 7 HD. I still can get 4,5,9 and 11. Lol funny I picked up channel 6 hd and 21 hd.


----------



## acp7399

Hello this is my first post. i recently purchased a 46 xbr4 and have had it for about a week now. While watching channel "my9" on 9.1, i noticed what looks like a small 1 cm horizontal line that comes and goes. I also have directv on video 1 and i don't see it on any of the directv channels, nor is it on any of the other ota hd channels i get (2.1, 4.1 etc). Ive read about dead pixels on this site and wonder if the criteria is that the pixels are consistently discolored? if so, is that the "diagnosis"...or is it normal for diff channels to have diff imperfections, especially when using ota? any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *acp7399* /forum/post/13062036
> 
> 
> Hello this is my first post. i recently purchased a 46 xbr4 and have had it for about a week now. While watching channel "my9" on 9.1, i noticed what looks like a small 1 cm horizontal line that comes and goes. I also have directv on video 1 and i don't see it on any of the directv channels, nor is it on any of the other ota hd channels i get (2.1, 4.1 etc). Ive read about dead pixels on this site and wonder if the criteria is that the pixels are consistently discolored? if so, is that the "diagnosis"...or is it normal for diff channels to have diff imperfections, especially when using ota? any help would be greatly appreciated.



That sounds like (looks like?) a digital "blocking" error due to low signal strength. If your set has a menu that shows signal quality, take a look at it to see if your MY9 signal strength is low. If you can adjust your antenna, try to "peak" it on MY9, but don't move it too much to upset the reception on your other channels.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13052842
> 
> 
> i've downloaded the FCC documents that list all of the changes across the country, but is there a more consumer friendly site that lists the changes for each market?



I don't know how it would rank in user-friendlyness, but try www.rabbitears.info . It will tell you what the current and future channels are.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/13071048
> 
> 
> I don't know how it would rank in user-friendlyness, but try www.rabbitears.info . It will tell you what the current and future channels are.



nice! thanks for the link.


----------



## the-sloth

i'm still having a lot of trouble pulling in WNYE-DT using a DB2 on the rooftop of my 6th story walkup (direct line of sight with ESB). 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 & 13 are all pegged at 100% signal strength. however, I can't get anything on WNYE. can anyone absolutely confirm that this transmitter is on ESB?


i'm considering ditching the DB2 for a V10 so I can be sure to get WABC when they jump down into the VHF band. The V10 has a much more narrow beam width so I want to make sure i don't shoot myself in the foot. Will all of the NYC DMA locals always be broadcasting from a shared single location? I know they are planning on relocating to the freedom tower when it's ready (2020 maybe... lol), but i just don't want to get an antenna with that small of a beam width if there is a chance that i will need to point at multiple locations.


----------



## SnellKrell

By the magic date of 2/17/09, WNYE-DT will be moving its transmission site to the Conde Nast Building at 4 Time Square.


I believe the DT signal is currently coming from a transmitter located in Brooklyn.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Press* /forum/post/13077359
> 
> 
> By the magic date of 2/17/09, WNYE-DT will be moving its transmission site to the Conde Nast Building at 4 Time Square.
> 
> 
> I believe the DT signal is currently coming from a transmitter located in Brooklyn.



ok.. well that certainly explains why i'm having problems getting it. i'm sure if it aimed my DB2 south/southeast i could pull it in.


any idea if WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WABC, WWOR, WPIX and WNET will keep their digital transmitters on ESB after the digital transition date?


----------



## O2C

I'm less than a mile from where WNYE-DT used to transmit from last year in Brooklyn. They definitely either moved or dropped their trasmit strength down tremendously as they've gone from the absolute strongest channel I got to a marginal one.


The TVFool site still has it placed in a different direction from everything else so I'm guessing they just dropped the power to next to nothing.


TVFool also updated their TV Signal Analysis Results to show an estimated view of what post-transition ought to look like.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *O2C* /forum/post/13086262
> 
> 
> I'm less than a mile from where WNYE-DT used to transmit from last year in Brooklyn. They definitely either moved or dropped their trasmit strength down tremendously as they've gone from the absolute strongest channel I got to a marginal one.
> 
> 
> The TVFool site still has it placed in a different direction from everything else so I'm guessing they just dropped the power to next to nothing.



I receive WNYE-DT just fine out in Lake Ronkonkoma, which is 46.5 miles from the ESB.


Based upon earlier comments in this thread I asssume they changed Tx locations.


The traffic cams on .2 are amusing to watch out here.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *O2C* /forum/post/13086262
> 
> 
> I'm less than a mile from where WNYE-DT used to transmit from last year in Brooklyn. They definitely either moved or dropped their trasmit strength down tremendously as they've gone from the absolute strongest channel I got to a marginal one.
> 
> 
> The TVFool site still has it placed in a different direction from everything else so I'm guessing they just dropped the power to next to nothing.
> 
> 
> TVFool also updated their TV Signal Analysis Results to show an estimated view of what post-transition ought to look like.



i could be mis-reading the post-transition map, but it seems like the it has most of the major transmitters located downtown and not on ESB. is that correct?


----------



## andy.s.lee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13088488
> 
> 
> i could be mis-reading the post-transition map, but it seems like the it has most of the major transmitters located downtown and not on ESB. is that correct?



As things stand right now, several broadcasters are planning to have their transmitter on the Freedom Tower (see this article ). However, things may change if the tower is not built in time or if the broadcasters decide to alter their plans for other reasons.


According to the August 6, 2007 FCC list of final DTV allotments, there are 8 DTV transmitters listed at the coordinates of the Freedom Tower.


Best regards,

Andy


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andy.s.lee* /forum/post/13090210
> 
> 
> As things stand right now, several broadcasters are planning to have their transmitter on the Freedom Tower (see this article ). However, things may change if the tower is not built in time or if the broadcasters decide to alter their plans for other reasons.
> 
> 
> According to the August 6, 2007 FCC list of final DTV allotments, there are 8 DTV transmitters listed at the coordinates of the Freedom Tower.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Andy



From the article that Andy linked:


"Now, Port Authority officials insist that the tower will be ready by 2012, but there is a degree of uncertainty in the real estate community that the goal will be met."


Yeah, add "me too" to to the "degree of uncertainty in the real estate community". In four years how many stories do they have to build?

How far up is the tower NOW?


----------



## jaypb

Was I the only one who noticed that Conan dropped off air at like 1AM and there was no signal for the Leno re-run at 3:05 am? My HDtivo cut out about 22 minutes into Conan and there was no recording for Leno at 3am because the "Signal was unavailable"


----------



## Carnivore

I'm testing a new antenna, can someone tell me if WLIW's digital signal is on the air today? I was getting it fine last week but I'm not getting it today, however I'm still getting a fairly clear analog signal from them. I'm trying to determine whether I've got a reception issue or if they're just off.


----------



## lostdvd

Anyone have ideas on what I should do? My apartment does not have LOS to the ESB and I do not get channel 2 and 7 hd. I'm use terk right but just purchased the philips silver sensor and should be arriving this week. I am doomed due to my location or will the silver sensor be more affective than the terk?


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lostdvd* /forum/post/13099924
> 
> 
> Anyone have ideas on what I should do? My apartment does not have LOS to the ESB and I do not get channel 2 and 7 hd. I'm use terk right but just purchased the philips silver sensor and should be arriving this week. I am doomed due to my location or will the silver sensor be more affective than the terk?



i don't have any direct experience with it, but from what i've read the Winegard SS-3000 is a great antenna for apartments and urban locations where you may not have line of sight but you're sure to have a signal bouncing around somewhere in your dwelling. see what your results are with the silver sensor though, i've had great luck with those in apartments.


----------



## cmeinck

I currently have D*, but having FIOS come Monday. I'm considering the purchase of an OTA antenna, but not sure if it's worth the investment. LNL in Syosset recommended a $127 antenna...add $40 for R6 cabling and it's about $165.


I have (2) TiVo HD units and a D* HR-20. All of which will accept OTA. Question is, is it worth the investment? What are the advantages? BTW, I have a 52" Bravia XBR3.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmeinck* /forum/post/13118625
> 
> 
> I currently have D*, but having FIOS come Monday. I'm considering the purchase of an OTA antenna, but not sure if it's worth the investment. LNL in Syosset recommended a $127 antenna...add $40 for R6 cabling and it's about $165.



If you're not a DIY'er then I suppose $165 isn't too bad if they are willing to adjust everything and ensure you have a good signal. May want to ask what they will do if they can't get a good signal.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cmeinck* /forum/post/13118625
> 
> 
> I have (2) TiVo HD units and a D* HR-20. All of which will accept OTA. Question is, is it worth the investment? What are the advantages? BTW, I have a 52" Bravia XBR3.



I'm not sure if the old D* STBs are going to do you any good if you're not a D* sub. Advantages would be that you would have your locals in the event of a Verizon outage. Is it worth the investment.... well, that's not for anyone other than yourself to decide.


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/13092678
> 
> 
> Was I the only one who noticed that Conan dropped off air at like 1AM and there was no signal for the Leno re-run at 3:05 am? My HDtivo cut out about 22 minutes into Conan and there was no recording for Leno at 3am because the "Signal was unavailable"



Actually that happened quite often in the past, and one can expect it to continue, when they need to work on the transmitters or whatever they're doing. Sometimes I noticed it was all local stations, not just one. It can be quite frustrating when there's something good on.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13077439
> 
> 
> ok.. well that certainly explains why i'm having problems getting it. i'm sure if it aimed my DB2 south/southeast i could pull it in.



realigned my DB2 and now i'm able to pull in WNYE in addition to all of the other area locals that I was previously getting. thanks for the tip on the current xmitter location.


----------



## ewooding

Hi Everyone,


I am not sure if this is the right forum or thread to be posting this in, but I have come across an issue with some HD channels that I currently get through the cable in my apartment.


Note, I DO NOT PAY FOR CABLE. This is the basic channels that are provided I assume because using an antenna is next to impossible in many parts of the city. Now I have been able to get all of the local channels coming through in HD up until sometime yesterday. I was watching the Daytona 500 on Fox HD, and now both the CW (1-11) and Fox HD (1-5) are missing from the lineup. I tried readding them with the auto program but nothing came up, and when I try to go directly to the station it doesn't work.


Is there anyone else that uses this method that is experiencing the same problem? If this isn't the right forum, please direct me to the right one, THANKS!


----------



## SnellKrell

No, this is not the correct Forum for your question. This one has to do with

Over-The-Air Info and Reception.


You should first determine which cable company is providing the service.


Then go the New York Forum that relates to that cable company.


What you are dealing with are local HD channels that are not scrambled, they are called QAM channels.


----------



## ewooding

Thanks Gary.


I assume it's TWC, I am in the UES. I'll go searching for that board.


----------



## SnellKrell

I am on East 63rd Street near Second and all of the local QAM HD channels are there.


You are more than likely on a different trunk line.


----------



## ghostie

I installed a Winegard PR7032 on the roof yesterday and was able to pick up all my expected channels, including WNET-DT 13.1-3. WNET-DT was the most picky, displaying 3 to 5 bars on Samsung's signal strength meter (by comparison, WNBC shows 8-10 bars consistently) and dropping out completely if the antenna was rotated a few degrees in either direction. When it rained yesterday, digital 13.1-3 disappeared completely. Is there any way to get WNET-DT more reliably? It's an HD channel, so I'd imagine some of those nature shows would look stunning.


In addition, during the installation, I noticed AntennaWeb now shows post-transition information. I noticed my info changed from 9 [email protected] degrees to about 5 [email protected] degrees. Where is the 2009 broadcast location?


And I know this is the wrong place to ask, but does anyone know the amount of loss in signal strength when using a f-coax coupler/grounding block? I don't see any RG-6 couplers, so I assume RG-59 couplers will do the trick.


----------



## SnellKrell

Ghostie -


With digital transmission, you'll have to change your name!


First, currently and until February 2009, of all the New York, English languarge major Metro stations emanate from the Empire State Building.


WNET-DT transmits at the lowest power and the highest frequency, channel 61.

Either is a killer and when you put the two detriments together - forget about it!

Very difficult station to receive.


AntennaWeb info is notorious for being out of date.

WNET-DT has been on the Empire State for a number of years and will remain there with a new digital channel as of February 2009. It will close down Channel 13 analogue and then open Channel 13 digital.


I've read somewhere that a barrel coupler can lose .5db.


Hope this helps.


----------



## dturturro

Any idea what power WNET will transmit when they switch from 61 to 13?


----------



## SnellKrell

3.2kW - ERP, the same as WABC-DT and WPIX-DT.


That appears to be the maximum allowed for channels 7-13 located on the

Empire State Building.


----------



## dturturro

That doesn't sound like a lot of coverage. I'm 24 miles from the ESB. Should I kiss OTA goodbye?


----------



## SnellKrell

You're right, it doesn't sound like much. But, remember that's for VHF channels 7-13 which need much less power than UHF. The higher the frequency (channel allocation), the more power that is needed for the same relative coverage.


I would "think" 24 miles from the ESB is quite reasonable for you to expect a solid signal.


Do you have a lot of stuff in the way? Is your antenna as high as possible?


There are so many varialbles.


----------



## dturturro

I get all the major networks pretty solid. WNET is ok. I was hoping the transition would help rather then hurt. I guess I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed!


----------



## Packeteers

YAY











I finally found my dream thread! where I can compare notes with others

in my area seeking and enjoying free over the air ATSC reception boxes.


I have to do 3 installations over the next few Months;

-a basement apartment in a Brooklyn house *11210*

-a first floor house out in 5-Towns *11691*

-and the toughest project of all, a second floor

apartment in a 7-story building stuck in a valley

surrounded by dozens of other buildings *11375*


I'll get started as soon as my Federal $40 coupons come in the mail,

and I find the time to read over 200 previous pages of this thread.

Then I'll chronicle what I discover with this thread. wish me luck


----------



## Tcatman

Gary


I tried two TERK antenaes, one powered rabbit ears and one low profile double triangle anttena on the upper east side facing the east river.


I could not get any signal... even sticking them out the window. Any hope with the silver sensor antena?



The Terk digital model woked a bit better... I only got channel 13 though.


Thanks for any insight


----------



## SnellKrell

If your apartment totally faces east, that's a problem.


Amazed that the only channel you could receive is 13. I have to put my Silver Sensor on the window sill to get it. The windows in my living room face west and I can aim the antenna southwest, toward the Empire State.


The vargaries of digital reception, using an indoor antenna, in a location filled with tall buldings, cannot really allow me to honestly give you a lot of hope.


I would stay away from powered (amplified) antennas. Get yourself an Silver Sensor, buy it at a place where you can return it (if necessary). Connect the antenna with plenty of coax cable. Walk it around your room, trying to find "sweet spots" for various

channels. The Silver Sensor is highly, highly directional. So the slightest change in its positioning can be the difference between success and utter frustration.


Facing east, you should be able to pick up WLIW-DT, broadcasts on channel 22 -remapped as 21.2 - surprised you didn't get this one!


With the Silver Sensor, start by pointing it toward the Empire State - 34th and Fifth.


The higher you can position the antenna the better.


What floor are you on?


I wish you well, don't give up and keep asking questions!


Gary


----------



## Packeteers

In case anyone here is buying the RjTECH RJ-900ATSC from Newegg;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882107064 


you can now get the compatible SmartAntenna;
http://www.summitsource.com/dx-anten...00-p-6320.html 


it sure would be awesome if someone in an urban spot

would take the plunge, and let us know how it worked.


Here is some encouraging feedback from someone who tried it, but remember
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post13015675 

the converter box chips have been revised, and should work even better now.


----------



## hdtvjunkie247

I've been watching WWE Friday Night Smackdown on WPIX-HD for the past couple of weeks and when there is about 2 minutes left in the program it switches back to SD. This has occurred every time since Smackdown went HD last month. Is there a reason for this?


----------



## kevin86

Hi, I was hoping someone might be able to answer my question for me. I am a New Yorker who is now living in Central Connecticut. I am seriously missing the NYC news stations. Is there any chance I will be able to pick up WNBC or WCBS OTA from Central CT?



Thanks.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin86* /forum/post/13217050
> 
> 
> Hi, I was hoping someone might be able to answer my question for me. I am a New Yorker who is now living in Central Connecticut. I am seriously missing the NYC news stations. Is there any chance I will be able to pick up WNBC or WCBS OTA from Central CT?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.




have you checked the 'normal' resources for your new location (ie antennaweb.org & tvfool.com)? if not, that is where I would start.


----------



## Packeteers

sloth, most TV news stations broadcast much of their content on their web sights. so if an antenna/tuner solution is not feasible, you should check the web out.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Packeteers* /forum/post/13218428
> 
> 
> sloth, most TV news stations broadcast much of their content on their web sights. so if an antenna/tuner solution is not feasible, you should check the web out.



yeah.. i just assumed that since he posted in an OTA thread, he was interested in receiving their terrestrial signal.


----------



## KML-224




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin86* /forum/post/13217050
> 
> 
> Hi, I was hoping someone might be able to answer my question for me. I am a New Yorker who is now living in Central Connecticut. I am seriously missing the NYC news stations. Is there any chance I will be able to pick up WNBC or WCBS OTA from Central CT?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



If you're in New Britain, consider that answer to be a big "No".


----------



## Packeteers









WATCH



If anyone in the *NYC area spots the;


Thomson RCA DTA800 *B* Digital TV Converter Box












which is a new version with the *SmartAntenna* support built in.


Please let us know here! I need to buy them once my $40 coupons arrive,

it's impossible for a store rep to tell me what's on the floor over the phone.

the box may look the same, but _should have_ a *B* sticker on the packaging.

the Walmart store item number _may be_ 003490972047.

*area Walmart locations;

NY: Valley Stream, Westbury, Uniondale, East Meadow, White Plains

NJ: Secaucus, Kearny, Linden, Union, Woodbridge, Saddle Brook


----------



## n2ubp

Federal Communications Commission

Washington, D.C. 20554 Approved by OMB

3060-1105 (January 2008)

FCC 387

FOR FCC USE ONLY


DTV TRANSITION STATUS REPORT


SECTION I - GENERAL INFORMATION

Licensee/Permittee Information

1. Legal Name of the Licensee/Permittee

NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE CO.

Mailing Address

1299 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE, NW



SECTION II - CURRENT STATUS

1.

Currently Assigned Channels:

a. NTSC Channel: 4

b. Post-Transition DTV Channel: 28

c. Pre-Transition DTV Channel (if different from Post-Transition channel.)

2.

Relevant FCC File No. for Post-Transition Authorization, if on file with Commission (or indicate "Not Yet Filed"):

FCC File No. - Not Yet Filed

3.

Current Construction Deadline: 08/18/2008



Exhibits Exhibit 2

Description: WNBC DTV POST TRANSITION PLAN


WNBC IS A NEW YORK STATION THAT HAS BEEN NEGATIVELY AFFECTED BY THE LOSS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001. WNBC WAS ABLE TO CONSTRUCT AN INTERIM DIGITAL FACILITY ON ITS POST-TRANSITION CHANNEL, WHICH IT HAS BEEN OPERATING FOR SEVERAL YEARS IN ORDER TO PROVIDE DIGITAL BROADCAST SERVICE.


THE BUILDING INTENDED TO REPLACE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THE FREEDOM TOWER, DOES NOT APPEAR LIKELY TO BE CONSTRUCTED BY FEBRUARY 2009, WHICH PRECLUDES THE STATION FROM COMPLETING CONSTRUCTION OF ITS APPENDIX B FACILITY AS OF THAT TIME. ACCORDINGLY AND CONSISTENT WITH CONSULTATIONS WITH COMMISSION STAFF, WNBC INTENDS TO CONTINUE USING ITS PRE-TRANSITION FACILITIES POST-TRANSITION. THE WNBC ALLOTTED POST-TRANSITION CHANNEL IS THE SAME AS ITS PRE-TRANSITION CHANNEL.


ON OR BEFORE MARCH 17, 2008, THE STATION WILL FILE AN APPLICATION TO COVER FOR A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT TO USE THE CURRENT WNBC-DT DIGITAL FACILITIES POST-TRANSITION. ASSUMING THE COMMISSION GRANTS THE APPLICATION, THE STATION INTENDS TO PROMPTLY FILE A LICENSE TO COVER APPLICATION FOR THAT FACILITY.


WHEN THE FREEZE ON EXPANDED COVERAGE IS LIFTED IN AUGUST 2008, WNBC WILL FILE AN APPLICATION FOR A DTV FACILITY AT THE FREEDOM TOWER. IT IS THE STATION'S UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WILL BE ABLE TO SUBMIT THIS APPLICATION EVEN IF THE PERMIT APPLICATION FOR ITS CURRENT FACILITY REMAINS PENDING OR HAS NOT YET BEEN LICENSED.


WNBC IS WORKING WITH OTHER BROADCASTERS IN THE NEW YORK CITY AREA TO IMPROVE DTV SERVICE IN NEW YORK CITY. IN ADDITION TO THE FREEDOM TOWER FACILITES, THE MTVA IS CURRENTLY TESTING A DISTRIBUTED TRANSMISSION SYSTEM IN BROOKLYN. WNBC IS ALSO WORKING WITH BROADCASTERS ON THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING TO OPTIMIZE THE ANTENNAS THERE AND PLANNING FOR ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS ONCE ANTENNAS NO LONGER REQUIRED AFTER THE TRANSITION ARE REMOVED.



Attachment 2


Exhibit 4

Description: WNBC DTV TRANSITION TIME LINE


SEE EXHIBIT 2 FOR DETAILS ON THE WNBC DTV TRANSITION PLAN.


TIME LINE:

ON OR BERFORE MARCH 17, 2008: WNBC WILL FILE AN APPLICATION TO LICENSE THE STATION'S CURRENT DTV FACILITIES AS ITS POST-TRANSITION FACILITIES.


AUGUST 2008 WHEN THE FREEZE ON FILING FOR COVERAGE EXTENSION IS LIFTED: WNBC WILL FILE AN APPLICATION FOR ITS FINAL POST-TRANSITION DTV FACILITIES AT THE FREEDOM TOWER.


FEBRUARY 17, 2009 - WNBC WILL CEASE ANALOG BROADCASTING ON CHANNEL 4 AT 11:59 PM


NEGOTIATIONS ARE UNDERWAY WITH CONTRACTORS, ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS INVOLVED WITH CONSTRUCTION OF THE FREEDOM TOWER TO FINALIZE THE DESIGN OF THE SPACE AND ANTENNA SUPPORT STRUCTURE FOR DTV BROADCASTING. THE DESIGN OF THE ANTENNA SYSTEM AND TRANSMITTER CONFIGURATION IS BEING FINALIZED. WHEN ESTIMATED ORDERING, INSTALLATION AND COMPLETION DATES ARE AVAILABLE THIS EXHIBIT WILL BE UPDATED.

Attachment 4


----------



## n2ubp

Exhibit 2

Description: EXHIBIT 2


EDUCATIONAL BROADCASTING CORPORATION, LICENSEE OF TELEVISION STATION WNET(TV), NEWARK, NJ, CURRENTLY OPERATES AN ANALOG FACILITY ON CHANNEL 13 AND PRE-TRANSITION DTV FACILITY ON CHANNEL 61. THE STATION HAS BEEN IN OPERATION FROM THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN NEW YORK CITY SINCE THE DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001.


WITH THE PRE-TRANSITION CHANNEL ALLOTMENT OF 61 BEING POST TRANSITION OUT OF CORE, WNET(TV) CHOSE TO RETURN TO ITS VHF ANALOG ALLOTMENT CHANNEL 13 FOR THE POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL FACILITY. OPERATION OF THE POST-TRANSITION DTV FACILITY IS UNABLE TO COMMENCE UNTIL FEBRUARY 17, 2009. WNET(TV)'S ULTIMATE PLAN IS TO OPERATE WITH FACILITIES TO BE INSTALLED ON FREEDOM TOWER AT THE FORMER WORLD TRADE CENTER SITE, ONCE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT FACILITY IS COMPLETED. AT THE TRANSITION DATE, THE STATION WILL OPERATE POST-TRANSITION ON CHANNEL 13 FROM TEMPORARY FACILITIES AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING, CURRENTLY USED BY THE STATION'S PRE-TRANSITION DTV CHANNEL 61 PURSUANT TO STA. THE FOLLOWING STEPS DESCRIBE THE TRANSTION TO POST-TRANSITION OPERATION ON CHANNEL 13 AT SUCH TEMPROARY FACILITIES.


ON FEBRUARY 17, 2009, WNET(TV) WILL PERFORM A FLASH-CUT TO THE POST-TRANSITION DTV FACILITY AT THAT TIME. THE PLAN TO PERFORM THIS SWITCH IS SUMMARIZED BELOW.


THE STATION'S CURRENT ANALOG FACILITY OPERATES WITH A LARCAN TT60M TRANSMITTER CONSISTING OF TWO 30 KW CABINET ASSEMBLIES. THIS CONFIGURATION ALLOWS FOR ONE HALF OF THE EXISTING FACILITY TO CONVERT TO DIGITAL OPERATION WHILE REMAINING OPERATIONAL AT FULL POWER WITH THE ANALOG FACILITY. PRIOR TO THE TRANSITION DATE, HALF OF THE EXISTING TRANSMITTER WILL BE CONVERTED TO ALLOW DIGITAL OPERATION AND OPERATIONALLY TESTED. THE RESULTANT LOSS IN ANALOG ERP IS LESS THAN 20% AND IS WITHIN THE TOLERANCE ALLOWED IN 73.1560. THE EXISTING ANTENNA SYSTEM REQUIRES NO MODIFICATION FOR DIGITAL OPERATION. AT MIDNIGHT ON THE TRANSITION DATE THE STATION WILL CEASE CHANNEL 61 OPERATION AND WILL COMMENCE DIGITAL OPERATION ON THE POST-TRANSITION ALLOTMENT CHANNEL 13. SUBSEQUENT TO THE DIGITAL TRANSITION, THE REMAINING ANALOG TRANSMITTER HALF WILL BE CONVERTED POST TRANSITION TO PROVIDE FOR A REDUNDANT FACILITY.


WNET ANTICIPATED DTV TRANSITION TIMELINE:


JANUARY 2008 PURCHASE AND SERVICES CONTRACT WERE EXECUTED WITH LARCAN COMMUNICATIONS FOR DTV CONVERSION EQUIPMENT AND SERVICES. WORK BEGAN ON ENGINEERING FOR DTV CP APPLICATION.


MARCH 2008 CP APPLICATION SUBMISSION FOR DTV CHANNEL 13 FACILITY.


OCTOBER 2008 EQUIPMENT DELIVERY INCLUDING NEW DIGITAL MASK FILTERS, EXCITERS AND METERING TO THE WNET TRANSMITTER SITE.


NOVEMBER 2008 INSTALLATION OF ADDITIONAL AND REDUNDANT TERMINAL EQUIPMENT.


DECEMBER 8 19, 2008 CONVERT HALF OF THE TRANSMITTER FOR DIGITAL OPERATION WITH THE INSTALLATION OF NEW MASK FILTER, EXCITER AND MISCELLANY EQUIPMENT.


JANUARY 6-23 DTV TESTING INCLUDING OVERNIGHT ON AIR PROGRAM TESTS.


FEBRUARY 17, 2009. CEASE ANALOG OPERATION AND COMMENCE DIGITAL OPERATIONS ON CHANNEL 13.


MARCH 2009 COMPLETE CONVERSION OF REMAINING TRANSMITTER HALF FOR DIGITAL OPERATION REDUNDANCY.


THE STATION ANTICIPATES FILING A MAXIMIZATION APPLICATION IN AUGUST 2008 TO ULTIMATELY OPERATE FROM POST-TRANSITION FACILTIES FROM THE FREEDOM TOWER.


Attachment 2


Exhibit 4

Description: EXHIBIT 4


WNET(TV) CURRENTLY PROVIDES PRE-TRANSITION DIGITAL SERVICE ON CHANNEL 61 AND WILL PROVIDE POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL SERVICE ON CHANNEL 13.


DUE TO THE DESTRUCTION OF THE STATION'S DIGITAL FACILITIES AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, THE STATION HAS CONSTRUCTED DIGITAL FACILITIES AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING. ULTIMATELY, WNET(TV) INTENDS TO CONSTRUCT AND OPERATE DIGITAL FACILITIES FROM THE FREEDOM TOWER, WHICH IS TO BE BUILT AT THE LOCATION OF THE FORMER WORLD TRADE CENTER.


CONSTRUCTION OF THE FREEDOM TOWER IS NOT EXPECTED TO BE COMPLETED BEFORE FEBRUARY 17, 2009. THEREFORE, WNET(TV) WILL FILE A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT APPLICATION FOR POST-TRANSITION FACILITIES AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING. WHEN THE FCC LIFTS ITS CURRENT FREEZE ON MAXIMIZATION APPLICATIONS, WNET(TV) WILL FILE AN APPLICATION FOR MAXIMIZED FACILITIES FROM THE FREEDOM TOWER LOCATION. IT IS WNET(TV)'S UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS PROCESS WILL CONTINUE TO PROVIDE INTERFERENCE PROTECTION TO THE STATIONS APPENDIX B FACILITIES.


EXHIBIT 2 PROVIDES A DESCRIPTION AND ESTIMATED TIMELINE FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF WNET(TV)'S TEMPORARY POST-TRANSITION DIGITAL FACILITIES AT THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING


----------



## n2ubp

FCC Form 387

Comprehensive Exhibit 4

Page 1 of 2

Comprehensive Exhibit 4 to

FCC Form 387 - Station WABC-DT

WABC-DT (WABC) is submitting this Comprehensive Exhibit to FCC Form 387 to

provide the information requested in response to (1) Section IV - Additional Steps Needed to

Complete Construction, (2) Section V - Analog Service, and (3) Section VI - DTV Transition

Plan.

Background. The September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks destroyed WABC's analog and

digital facilities at the World Trade Center. WABC's prompt construction of multiple

replacement facilities has been documented in previous filings. At present, WABC operates main

analog (channel 7) and main digital (channel 45) facilities at the Empire State Building in New

York City.1 WABC also holds authorizations for analog and digital facilities at the Four Times

Square building in New York City, which it generally utilizes during construction on its main

facilities at the Empire State Building.2 At all times, WABC has retained its World Trade Center

authorizations (analog license and a digital construction permit with a pending license

application) given its ultimate plans to return to the previous World Trade Center site upon

construction of the Freedom Tower.

Analog Service. WABC will continue broadcasting a full, authorized analog service on

channel 7 until the end of the DTV transition on February 17, 2009. Through January 2009,

analog service will be provided from the Empire State Building; from January 2009 through

February 17, 2009, analog service will be provided from redundant facilities at the Four Times

Square building. This location change is necessary in order to prepare the Empire State Building

facilities for post-transition DTV operation, as described below. Analog service will not be

interrupted and the coverage from the Four Times Square building will replicate the current

coverage from the Empire State Building.

DTV Transition Plan and Additional Steps Needed to Complete Construction. WABC

will continue broadcasting a full, authorized digital service on channel 45 until the end of the

DTV transition. WABC will operate its post-transition DTV facilities on channel 7, its current

NTSC channel, from the Empire State Building. In July 2008, WABC will convert one existing

backup analog transmitter at the Empire State Building for digital use. In January 2009, WABC

will cease analog service from the Empire State Building and simultaneously commence analog

operations from the Four Times Square building, as noted above, to facilitate its post-transition

1 The main analog operations are authorized by a special temporary authorization. The

main digital operations are authorized by an auxiliary construction permit and pending auxiliary

license application.

2 The Four Times Square digital operations are authorized by STA while the analog

operations are authorized by an auxiliary construction permit and pending auxiliary license

application.

FCC Form 387

Comprehensive Exhibit 4

Page 2 of 2

DTV operations at the Empire State Building. In early 2009 (likely Jan. 19 to Feb. 13), WABC

will convert a second transmitter at the Empire State Building from analog to digital. This digital

transmitter and the transmitter converted to digital in July 2008 will be routed to the high-band

VHF antenna already in place at the Empire State Building. On February 17, 2009, WABC will

power-down the analog channel 7 facility at the Four Times Square building and the digital

channel 45 facility at the Empire State Building and simultaneously will commence channel 7

digital operations at the Empire State Building. No changes will be required to the existing

broad-band High VHF antenna systems at either the Empire State Building or the Four Times

Square building.

Appendix B Facilities and Permanent Post-Transition DTV Facilities. As described

above, WABC's DTV transition will proceed with no significant service interruptions.3 WABC's

post-transition channel 7 DTV facility at the Empire State Building will be fully constructed on

February 17, 2009. Ultimately, however, WABC plans to replace the Empire State Building

facility with one to be located at the previous site of the World Trade Center, likely when

construction of the Freedom Tower at that site is complete.4 The facilities specified for WABC

in Appendix B match these planned World Trade Center site facilities and not the Empire State

Building facilities. WABC will file any applications or other requests necessary in order to

authorize its DTV operations at the Empire State Building and simultaneously maintain

interference protection for its Appendix B facilities.

Form 387 Final Facilities. In order to complete the attached Form 387, WABC has

treated its Empire State Building DTV facilities as its post-transition facility or final DTV

(post transition) facility but does not actually intend for these facilities to be its final facilities.

Rather, as noted above, WABC's final DTV facilities likely will be its planned facilities at the

World Trade Center site (or comparable facilities) with parameters matching those specified in

Appendix B or otherwise authorized by the Commission. Further, because it remains concerned

that the low power levels specified in Appendix B for many high VHF channel stations like

WABC are insufficient, WABC may seek Commission authority to increase its Appendix B

power level in order to provide more reliable DTV service to its current analog viewers.

3 The post-transition DTV operation on channel 7 at the Empire State Building will

replicate the pre-transition analog operations on channel 7.

4 WABC anticipates that operation from the Freedom Tower, unlike its operation from the

Empire State Building, will permit it to reach all of the viewers reached from the World Trade

Center before the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.


----------



## n2ubp

Exhibit 4

DTV Transition Plan

WPIX, Inc. (WPIX), licensee of WPIX-DT, New York, New York, is currently operating on NTSC channel 11 and DTV Channel 33. WPIX will return to Channel 11 for its post-transition DTV operation.

Equipment for conversion of the transmitter is in storage waiting to be shipped to the site.

Construction Schedule:

Licensees schedule for implementing Post-Transition DTV facilities is as follows.

August 2008

Reduce NTSC power to 50% and convert ½ of the NTSC transmitter for DTV operation.

February 17 2009

Terminate DTV operations on Ch 33 and NTSC operations on CH 11

February 18, 2009

Commence operations on DTV 11 at 100% authorized power.

WPIX must coordinate transition changes with WABC and WNET due to a shared VHF combiner and antenna at the Empire State Building, and with WCBS as the latter station will be using DTV channel 33 for its post transition DTV operations.


----------



## petp

i recently swtiched back to an indoor antenna since im having some construction on my building and my cable is out.


last spring i was catching channels 2/4/5/7/9/11 all in HD. now im getting just snow on the analog channels and maybe just sound on the HD channels. did they weaken the signals or something recently?


im in an apartment building in northern queens and using a RCA indoor antenna (used to work just fine). is there any better antenna out there....do any local stores sell the silver sensor? i checked best buy in astoria and queens center and circuit city near queens center and they dont have it. is silver sensor THAT much better than every other antenna?


many thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

The only stations that have weakened their signals are member of the the New Jersey

Network - for pressing economic problems in the state.


The stations you mentioned, are all coming in fine (the same as in the past) for me -

which can differ day to day.


I use the Silver Sensor and am very pleased. Ilive in the east 60s in Manhattan, surrounded by taller buildings and lots of multipath.


Why not buy one from Circuit City and try it out, or from another provider where it can be returned?


Wish you luck.


----------



## Roger Lococco

the Silver Sensor was dramatically better for me here in Jamaica than all the other typical antennas in stores, i.e. amplified rabbit ear loop combos, the flying saucer Rat Shack one, the awful Terk HDTVa, etc.


----------



## Packeteers

anyone looking for the RCA DTA800B at Walmart around NYC

would be well served to call and have someone in electronics

check stock on this item. it seems they have piles of crappy

Magnavox TB100MW9 boxes, and may be reluctant to stock

a superior alternate product until those crappy boxes sell out.


I would appreciate if ANYONE sees the RCA box sold at their

local Walmart in the NYC area to please post that fact here.


----------



## hxmiller

Are some stations in the NY area turning off or lowering power the DTV signal overnight? I'm see strange things on various stations overnight.


I'm in Morris County, NJ.


----------



## jaypb

Just curious if anyone else is using an HR-20 (D* HD DVR) to receive and record OTA signals from NYC. I'm seeing oddities with 4-1 on MULTIPLE receivers when I record 4-1 and fast forward through the recordings---there is pixelation that occurs only on the left hand side of the screen on EVERY recording I have from 4-1...on 2 different HR-20's both hooked up to the same antenna...but on NO other OTA stations I receive.


Having said this, there is NO problem/pixelization when watching recorded/live material...it only seems to be "there" when we are fast forwarding through programming....again, on EVERY recording off of 4-1...but I NEVER see the same on any other local OTA programming that we record/watch.


Very odd....but something I just wanted to ask while it was fresh in mind....


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hxmiller* /forum/post/13399673
> 
> 
> Are some stations in the NY area turning off or lowering power the DTV signal overnight? I'm see strange things on various stations overnight.
> 
> 
> I'm in Morris County, NJ.



I've noticed the same here in northern Middlesex County.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hxmiller* /forum/post/13399673
> 
> 
> Are some stations in the NY area turning off or lowering power the DTV signal overnight? I'm see strange things on various stations overnight.
> 
> 
> I'm in Morris County, NJ.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/13403584
> 
> 
> I've noticed the same here in northern Middlesex County.



Most definitely NBC-DT is...since I record Conan/Leno every night. This most recently happened Friday at around 1am since my HD Tivo only recorded 22 minutes or so of Conan...and I think he starts at 12:37AM. In addition the 3:05AM Leno didn't record.....


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/13400239
> 
> 
> Just curious if anyone else is using an HR-20 (D* HD DVR) to receive and record OTA signals from NYC. I'm seeing oddities with 4-1 on MULTIPLE receivers when I record 4-1 and fast forward through the recordings---there is pixelation that occurs only on the left hand side of the screen on EVERY recording I have from 4-1...on 2 different HR-20's both hooked up to the same antenna...but on NO other OTA stations I receive.
> 
> 
> Having said this, there is NO problem/pixelization when watching recorded/live material...it only seems to be "there" when we are fast forwarding through programming....again, on EVERY recording off of 4-1...but I NEVER see the same on any other local OTA programming that we record/watch.
> 
> 
> Very odd....but something I just wanted to ask while it was fresh in mind....




i'm glad it's not just me.... i had it on NBC (4.1) this morning on one of my HR20 units and trick play (skip, jump back, FF, RW) just wouldn't work at all.... the picture just froze. i could change channels and then come back to NBC, but trick play was still broken. all trick play functionality worked fine all all other channels.


----------



## TuxBobble

I'm somewhat new to these forums, and only just recently picked up an HDTV. We've been getting Time Warner Cable in our house for years now, and I don't even remember the days of antennas, really. (I'm 21 years old, and most of my life we've had cable in some form or other)


I've been looking into getting an antenna to attach to my TV to pull in some HD channels, if possible. However I don't want to disconnect my cable box in the process. I just want to know, if I buy an antenna, will I be able to hook both the wired cable and the antenna up to the TV at the same time? My instincts would tell me that I'd need 2 coax inputs for the TV, as I assume the antenna hooks up the same way.


If anyone can inform me a bit, please let me know. Wasn't sure where to post this question so if it's in the wrong place please let me know and I'll repost elsewhere. Thanks in advance.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TuxBobble* /forum/post/13417616
> 
> 
> I'm somewhat new to these forums, and only just recently picked up an HDTV. We've been getting Time Warner Cable in our house for years now, and I don't even remember the days of antennas, really. (I'm 21 years old, and most of my life we've had cable in some form or other)
> 
> 
> I've been looking into getting an antenna to attach to my TV to pull in some HD channels, if possible. However I don't want to disconnect my cable box in the process. I just want to know, if I buy an antenna, will I be able to hook both the wired cable and the antenna up to the TV at the same time? My instincts would tell me that I'd need 2 coax inputs for the TV, as I assume the antenna hooks up the same way.
> 
> 
> If anyone can inform me a bit, please let me know. Wasn't sure where to post this question so if it's in the wrong place please let me know and I'll repost elsewhere. Thanks in advance.




assuming your new HDTV has an ATSC tuner (for OTA HD) you would need two inputs.


if you have analog cable...

One coax input for the ATSC antenna (HD) and one for your analog cable.


if you have digital cable (w/ or w/o HD service)

One coax input for the ATSC antenna (HD) composite/hdmi/component input for your digital cable receiver.


obviously you would need to change inputs in order to switch between the two sources.


----------



## ray field

Last week I just bought a friend's old Sony KD-34XBR960 and hauled it out to my apartment Brooklyn (11210). We set it up using a Radio Shack powered set of rabbit ears and much to my surprise, got quite a number of HD channels -- 2.1 (spectacular-looking), 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3. Analog reception had always been poor here, and remains so.


My landlord will not permit me to put an antenna on the roof. What option is likeliest to improve my reception (and give me HD Channel 11 and WNBC) -- the Silver Sensor, and/or some sort of signal booster? If the latter can someone recommend one?


----------



## SnellKrell

Buy the Silver Sensor from a place, if necessary, where you can return it.


It works very well for me in the middle of Manhattan - surrounded by taller

buildings and a lot of multipath.


----------



## billyparrott

For the past two days I haven't been able to pick up any OTA HD channels.

Months of problem-free reception, but now no 2.1, 4.1, 7.1, etc...

I rescanned the channels and roamed with the antenna but can't get any of them.

I have a Panasonic with a ATSC tuner and a powered Terk in Brooklyn 11216.

Anyone else have the channels drop out and disappear?


----------



## pdroth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ray field* /forum/post/13457215
> 
> 
> Last week I just bought a friend's old Sony KD-34XBR960 and hauled it out to my apartment Brooklyn (11210). We set it up using a Radio Shack powered set of rabbit ears and much to my surprise, got quite a number of HD channels -- 2.1 (spectacular-looking), 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2, 7.3. Analog reception had always been poor here, and remains so.
> 
> 
> My landlord will not permit me to put an antenna on the roof. What option is likeliest to improve my reception (and give me HD Channel 11 and WNBC) -- the Silver Sensor, and/or some sort of signal booster? If the latter can someone recommend one?



Try the Silver Sensor - I've had great success with it.


As for your TV - congrats!! It is still one of the best (had one myself until I got LCD). Use the diagnostics page to fine tune your aim of the antenna to maximize signal strength.


----------



## icemannyr

I use a powered Radio Shack antenna with my tuner card, I'm on the other side of the Hudson in NJ and am able to tune in all stations but WNET-DT.

tear.
http://radioshack.com/product/index....entPage=family 


Anyone notice on WNYE-DT's sub channel that there is a loud audio buzz and the video level is to hot causing the video to distort?


----------



## mnevar

I have a rooftop antenna and a Dish 622 receiver. This week all NY OTA stations went out. I can still receive NJN. I tried repositioning the antenna with no luck. Very strange. Signal has always been good here going back to pre-911.


----------



## the-sloth

everything is a-ok here in midtown... getting strong signals on 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,25 and 31.


----------



## beatles6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnevar* /forum/post/13506951
> 
> 
> I have a rooftop antenna and a Dish 622 receiver. This week all NY OTA stations went out. I can still receive NJN. I tried repositioning the antenna with no luck. Very strange. Signal has always been good here going back to pre-911.



Same thing here in Staten Island. Today 2-1 and 7-1 came back. Was also getting perfect reception before.


----------



## shadowcaster

Western Suffolk cnty, L.I....never have been able to receive 4-1 NBC.

Rooftop ant, 220 ft asl. C'mon NBC, bring up the power to FCC specs already !!


----------



## ukitali

I just purchased an HDTV with a built in ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner would like to try to get some OTA HD channels. I'm in zip code 10003 (within 2 miles of the ESB) on the 2nd floor of an apartment facing north. When I looked up my location on antennaweb mostly yellow uhf stations popped up suggesting I need a multi directional antenna. But I see most people recommending the Silver Sensor which is a directional antenna I believe? I use basic rabbit ears now and can pick up the basic analog channels but the quality is never very good. What's by best bet in terms of picking up HD channels?


----------



## Trip in VA

Start with your rabbit ears and see what happens. There's a chance they might deliver acceptable reception, in which case you don't need to invest in anything else.


More likely, though, you will have issues with the rabbit ears, and you'll need something else. While antennaweb may say use an omnidirectional antenna, issues in New York will are more often related to multipath (ghosting) than actual signal problems. Looking at channels 31 and 41 might give a good idea of whether or not this will be a problem for you. When multipath is your problem, you need a directional antenna like the Silver Sensor to reject the reflected signals and focus only on the one you want.


- Trip


----------



## Soroc

Hi guys, I just picked up a Toshiba 32RV530u and wanted to get a good OTA antenna. I'm in Lower Westchester County more precisely in the zip code 10552. I live in a 6 story apartment building and I'm on the first floor. I have windows pointing eastward and one southbound (The one I would probably want to use). The southbound window points directly at another building though










Does anyone have any advice or experience picking up signals from about 15 miles north of manhattan? Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Should I just pick up a 15 dollar antenna to test out first?


----------



## SnellKrell

If your are talking about an indoor antenna, buy a Silver Sensor from a place where, if necessary, you can return it.


It's highly directional and very good!


----------



## PitPirate

Here in midtown with an AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe MCE tuner card and the Silver Sensor attenna - I am able to get excellent HD reception for all the standard channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, WWOR, WPIX, and a couple of Spanish channels liek WFUT). However, I get absolutely no signal for WNET (PBS) - which I understand is common but still very frustrating... Sigh.


I would have thought being 20 blocks away from the ESB meant that I could get PBS but I guess not.


I'll also note that I get all the same channels with the simple "testing" attenna that came with the AverMedia tuner card as with the Silver Sensor - so I will most likely return the Silver Sensor to Amazon.


Any other channels you guys think I should be able to get?


I get absolutely no signal for WNET no matter where I stand. Any chance an amplified attenna would help, or is it a lost cause? If so, any recommendations?


----------



## ray field

the Silver Sensor arrived about a week and a half ago (Brooklyn/11210) but it does not perform as well here as the 3-year old powered Radio Shack antenna. I'm going to hang onto it, however, just in case it winds up working for some channels the RS can't get.


late last night I let the TV find channels all over again: suddenly for the first time I'm getting NBC in HD (two channels) and 2-3 others. hopefully this will last.


----------



## tryin2search




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PitPirate* /forum/post/13569239
> 
> 
> Here in midtown with an AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe MCE tuner card and the Silver Sensor attenna - I am able to get excellent HD reception for all the standard channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, WWOR, WPIX, and a couple of Spanish channels liek WFUT). However, I get absolutely no signal for WNET (PBS) - which I understand is common but still very frustrating... Sigh.
> 
> 
> I would have thought being 20 blocks away from the ESB meant that I could get PBS but I guess not.
> 
> 
> I'll also note that I get all the same channels with the simple "testing" attenna that came with the AverMedia tuner card as with the Silver Sensor - so I will most likely return the Silver Sensor to Amazon.
> 
> 
> Any other channels you guys think I should be able to get?
> 
> 
> I get absolutely no signal for WNET no matter where I stand. Any chance an amplified attenna would help, or is it a lost cause? If so, any recommendations?



Well prepare to be frustrated a little while longer. I sent an email to WNET in late February about their signal, this is their reply:

Thank you for taking the time to write us regarding our programming. We appreciate your comments regarding our digital signal; feedback from our viewers, whether positive or negative, is always welcome.


Our engineers are working on a permanent and more powerful signal output. Thirteen will upgrade it signal output by February of 2009.


As a public television station, Thirteen depends on viewers like you to enable us to continue fulfilling our mission to present quality programming. We hope that you will continue to enjoy our fine programming and thank you for your continued support of Thirteen/WNET.


----------



## mbnzgrl

Hi Guys -- I will soon be an owner of a new HDTV and in the learning process. Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but when I put in my address on the AntennaWeb site, it gives me 13 channels that are Digital stations. Does that mean these are HD stations? Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

Not necessarily HD!


All HD stations are Digital.


But not all Digital stations are HD!!!


----------



## Roger Lococco

anyone here get a CECB yet, if so, did you get more distant channels from Jersey, etc.


----------



## shadowcaster

Roger, the box has nothing to do w/signal strength, it's strictlty a converter.


----------



## OWENF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/13612802
> 
> 
> anyone here get a CECB yet, if so, did you get more distant channels from Jersey, etc.



Roger I picked up the cecb from BB about 3 weeks ago and live down in the

Philly DMA. Currently I can receive all Philly when pointed in that direction

which is about 13 miles. When pointed toward NYC (70 + miles) I have solid reception from 2.1,7.1,7.2,7.3,25.1,25.2,31.1 and also get 9.1 and 9.2 with some glitches but stable enough to watch.

Hopefully this continues(no leaves on trees yet) Mostly interested in CBS and Fox come football season









The antenna is rooftop mounted uhf directional only

Regards

Owenf


----------



## Roger Lococco

thanks Owen and shadowcaster, Owen's results with his cecb seem to confirm my theory that the better 6th gen tuners in these boxes, coupled with a very good outdoor antenna, are able to achieve very good reception over longer distances than older generation atsc tuners, such as my RS Accurian.


----------



## Packeteers

I just installed a Winegard HD7084 Roof Antenna

with an 80' run of RG6U Quad-Shielded, no amp,

to a new DS*DTX9900 OTA/DTV Converter Box.

Only 8 miles from most Transmitters, but suffer

from multipath from nearby apartment buildings.

Hopefully typing all this up will help someone










? = strange channel I may remove

A = wall papered channel with unique Audio only


CH.X IDENTITY RF SIGNAL*STRENGTH

2-1 WCBS-HD 56 90

3-1 ? 3 60

4-1 WNBC-DT 28 90

4-2 WX PLUS 28 90

4-4 WNBC4.4 28 90

5-1 WNYW-DT 44 80

5-2 WWOR-DT 44 80

7-1 WABC-HD 45 83

7-2 WABC+ 45 83

7-3 WABCNOW 45 83

9-1 WWOR-DT 38 75

9-2 WNYW-DT 38 83

11-1 THECW11 ? 12 30

11-1 THECW11 33 90

11-2 CW11SD ? 12 30

11-2 CW11SD 33 90

13-1 WNET-HD 61 75

13-2 WNET-SD 61 75

13-3 WNET-13 61 75

25-1 WNYE1 24 90

25-2 WNYE2 24 90

29-1 WFME-DT 29 41

29-2 WFME-FM A 29 41

29-3 FR-WEST A 29 41

29-2 KEAR-FM A 29 41

29-2 F.L.#1 A 29 41

29-2 F.L.#2 A 29 41

29-2 67SUB A 29 41

29-2 92SUB A 29 41

29-2 NOAA A 29 41

29-2 FUTURE A 29 41

31-1 ION 30 72

31-2 QUBO 30 72

31-3 IONLIFE 30 72

31-4 WORSHIP 30 72

36-3 ? 36 20

41-1 WXTVDT 40 83

47-1 WNJU-DT 36 30

50-1 WNJN-DT 51 41

50-3 NJN-3 51 41

50-4 NJN-4 51 41

50-5 NJN-HD 51 41

58-1 WNJB-DT 8 54

58-4 NJN-4 8 54

58-5 NJN-DH 8 54

63-1 WMBC-D1 18 80

63-2 WMBC-D2 18 80

63-3 WMBC-D3 18 70

63-4 WMBC-D4 18 70

68-1 WFUT-DT 53 90


over the next few days I may pivot my antenna

another 5-10° from West to North, and should my

reception numbers change significantly I will post

and update here. I'm hoping I can turn many of

those 70's into 90's without dropping current 90's,

or having to add a quality power injected pre-amp.

over 67 is great reception, 34-66 is still watchable.


----------



## Trip in VA

You helped me! =)


Let me, in turn, help you. I'll translate some of these with the ? after them for you.


3-1 ? 3 60


Does anything decode on this one at all? I think this would be WBQM-LP, which at last report was a Religious station.


11-1 THECW11 ? 12 30

11-1 THECW11 33 90

11-2 CW11SD ? 12 30

11-2 CW11SD 33 90


After 9/11, WPIX received an STA to operate at low power on channel 12. They are continuing to do so despite having their full-power operating up on channel 33. I gather there are multipath-caused signal problems in some places that the weaker channel 12 signal is able to overcome.


36-3 ? 36 20


WNJU has their transmitter over on First Mountain in New Jersey, and to help get their signal to Long Island, they have a highly-directional repeater in the city. You're receiving one of the two channels 36 strong enough to decode and map to channel 47-1. The other is showing up here as 36-3. What a mess. I imagine neither one decodes very well.


I'd be curious to see if you get anything else as you turn your antenna north.


Could you tell me what programming is on 11-2? It's one question I just cannot seem to answer.


Thanks so much. =)


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA -


Ever since The Tube (Music Network) went belly up, 11.2 in New York City has been used to rebroadcast 11.1 in SD. What a waste of bandwidth, but I expect its being

used a "place holder" to insure future carriage on cable systems.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/13661849
> 
> 
> You helped me! =)
> 
> 
> Let me, in turn, help you. I'll translate some of these with the ? after them for you.
> 
> 
> 3-1 ? 3 60
> 
> 
> Does anything decode on this one at all? I think this would be WBQM-LP, which at last report was a Religious station.



It's possible that 3-1 is KYW-DT out of Philly (CBS affiliate). I was able to get this channel *occasionally) on SI a few times.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/13662648
> 
> 
> It's possible that 3-1 is KYW-DT out of Philly (CBS affiliate). I was able to get this channel *occasionally) on SI a few times.



I would agree, except that he has it listed as physical channel 3 and not 26 (the two numbers in his right column are physical channel number and signal strength).


And thanks for the info on 11-2. I asked because I know Tribune-owned WPHL-DT in Philadelphia is airing a sports network on 17-2, and figured maybe WPIX was doing the same, but had no way to tell.


- Trip


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/13663263
> 
> 
> I would agree, except that he has it listed as physical channel 3 and not 26 (the two numbers in his right column are physical channel number and signal strength).
> 
> 
> And thanks for the info on 11-2. I asked because I know Tribune-owned WPHL-DT in Philadelphia is airing a sports network on 17-2, and figured maybe WPIX was doing the same, but had no way to tell.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Ah, now I see the "RF" in the column heading---sorry, I missed that when I first read it.


What sports net is Philly WPHL airing on 17-2? I haven't turned my antenna towards Philly in quite sometime, but if they are airing *live* games I may be so inclined to do so to check it out


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/13663479
> 
> 
> Ah, now I see the "RF" in the column heading---sorry, I missed that when I first read it.
> 
> 
> What sports net is Philly WPHL airing on 17-2? I haven't turned my antenna towards Philly in quite sometime, but if they are airing *live* games I may be so inclined to do so to check it out



"WCSN." World Championship Sports Network or something like this. Their website isn't too helpful.


- Trip


----------



## personalt

I live in Weehawken two streets from the water near where BLVD each turns to go along the water as it comes up from the tunnel.


I am using a GE antenna that looks very similar to this Radio Shack model
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-hdtv-uh...i-2253765.html 


With hdhomerun as my tunner gettig signals in the 70s, but that still gives me a somewhat jumpy picture.


If I hold the antenna up about 6 feet I get a good signal which seems to follow reason as if I get up 6 feet I hit a decent path between the trees.


My question is... at 2.2 miles I would expect to be pulling near 100% I would think...


do I swap the antenna or is there some sort of tripod I can buy? I know I can build something but if I could by something under $30 that goes up 5' I would be happy.


Any suggestions?


----------



## jaypb

Recently I've noticed on several different CBS OTA recordings that I'm getting loud popping noises spread out sporadically through different shows (CSI Miami, CSI NY, Without a Trace) and was curious if anyone else with either of these D* receivers is noticing the same thing ?!?! I've heard the crackling/popping on 2 different D* receivers which are each hooked up to different surround sound systems.


The pops are evident when I'm listening via my surround sound systems---but I didn't check to see if they showed up when I had the audio coming out of the TV speakers vs. the A/V receiver.


I was just curious if it was a D* receiver issue, an OTA issue or a 5.1 surround sound issue.


----------



## shadowcaster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/13694153
> 
> 
> Recently I've noticed on several different CBS OTA recordings that I'm getting loud popping noises spread out sporadically through different shows (CSI Miami, CSI NY, Without a Trace) and was curious if anyone else with either of these D* receivers is noticing the same thing ?!?! I've heard the crackling/popping on 2 different D* receivers which are each hooked up to different surround sound systems.
> 
> 
> The pops are evident when I'm listening via my surround sound systems---but I didn't check to see if they showed up when I had the audio coming out of the TV speakers vs. the A/V receiver.
> 
> 
> I was just curious if it was a D* receiver issue, an OTA issue or a 5.1 surround sound issue.



I believe it's a CBS issue as I get the same noises on Fios, but no other channel.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shadowcaster* /forum/post/13694728
> 
> 
> I believe it's a CBS issue as I get the same noises on Fios, but no other channel.



Cool. Thanks for the response. I've been meaning to post this for about a month, but kept forgetting!


----------



## rcodey

I've been getting the same popping noises in the surround sound audio on CBS shows with Comcast in northern New Jersey.


----------



## lostdvd

After months of different antennas and positioning, I've virtually given up trying to receive channel 2 and 7 digital. I seriously believe it is my location that isn't allowing me to pick up these channels. I get the other local digital channels with no problem.


----------



## O2C




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lostdvd* /forum/post/13701646
> 
> 
> After months of different antennas and positioning, I've virtually given up trying to receive channel 2 and 7 digital. I seriously believe it is my location that isn't allowing me to pick up these channels. I get the other local digital channels with no problem.



Here are some questions (and pure speculation). Aren't those two the strongest transmitting stations? And aren't there other stations broadcasting from the same location? Assuming you are getting full signal strength on stations you are receiving, have you tried throwing a RF attenuator onto the line and seeing if that helps any?


----------



## opoulin77

Hello, it is my first post. Great forum!










I am planning to buy an HDTV and considering getting my digital signal OTA. I live at least than 2 miles from the ESB and have an unobstructed view of the tower. There are not many higher buildings than my apt around. From what I read, it seems to me that I am in a good situation for OTA signal. Is it a sure shot, or there is still a possibility that something will affect my reception? Also, any views on the type of antenna I should get?


Thank you for your views


----------



## POWERFUL

Yeah you should be fine, but get a good antenna like the Silver Sensor (available at Circuit City) and that should cut the multipath you may receive dramatically.


----------



## the-sloth

anyone else seeing erratic behavior with WCBS-DT this evening? my signals are fluctuating tremendously right now.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *opoulin77* /forum/post/13724471
> 
> 
> Hello, it is my first post. Great forum!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am planning to buy an HDTV and considering getting my digital signal OTA. I live at least than 2 miles from the ESB and have an unobstructed view of the tower. There are not many higher buildings than my apt around. From what I read, it seems to me that I am in a good situation for OTA signal. Is it a sure shot, or there is still a possibility that something will affect my reception? Also, any views on the type of antenna I should get?
> 
> 
> Thank you for your views




I second the Silver Sensor. You should get a fabulous picture.....


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13730744
> 
> 
> anyone else seeing erratic behavior with WCBS-DT this evening? my signals are fluctuating tremendously right now.



nevermind... my DB2 just needed to be re-aligned.


----------



## Packeteers

I took my reception list and compared to the TV Guide New York City Area Broadcast listing for my zip code;
http://www.tvguide.com/Listings/default.aspx 

I noticed several low or no signal strength omissions while my roof antenna is pointed West NorthWest of me.


23.1 WNJSDT Trenton, NJ (Southwest of me, over 50 miles)

23.4

23.5

54.1 WTBYDT Fishkill, NY (North of me, under 10 miles)

54.4

55.1 WLNY-DT Ryebrook, NY (North of me, under 10 miles)

55.2

67.1 WFTY-DT Newark, NJ (West of me, under 20 miles)


I'm curious to know if these channels actually broadcast from their incorporated locations, or an alternate location.

I'm puzzled why I'm not getting 67.1 which is close and lined up directionally enough to be picked up by my high gain antenna.


Something else is puzzling to me. These stations seem surprisingly low powered;


13.1 WNETHD (RF 61)

13.2 WNETK

13.3 WNETDT3


my antenna is pointed right at them and I'm only 8 miles away, yet the signal strength I get is about a third of ch 2.1 (RF 56)

which is nearby on the RF frequency scale. could this local PBS station simply be conserving broadcasting power until 2009,

or could they soon be moving to a new RF frequency?


another odd thing about 13.1 is their programming does not coincide with Analog RF channel 13's daily broadcasts.

for example, if you want to watch BBC World News at 6pm on PBS, you must tune it in on their old Analog channel.


----------



## SnellKrell

Packeteers -


WNET-HD and its sub-channels currently broadcast on the highest frequency in the metropolitan area and at the lowest power. Each situation can make reception difficult.


When the transition takes place, 2/09, the station will digitally broadcast on channel 13 at the highest power the FCC will currently allow.


Things "should" get better.


----------



## Trip in VA

WNET-DT is only doing 12 kW as opposed to the 349 kW WCBS-DT is doing.


I don't know where those other channel listings are coming from, they're COMPLETELY wrong. WFTY-DT and WLNY-DT come from towers out on Long Island. WTBY-DT comes from up near Newburgh. WNJS is down in Hammonton and is seen near Philly. It's on the same channel as WLIW-DT and you have no hope of getting it.


WFTY-DT completely duplicates WFUT-DT 68-1. WNJS-DT completely duplicates WNJN-DT 50-1 and WNJB-DT 58-1.


That leaves WLNY-DT and WTBY-DT, which you probably will not be able to receive where you are. The former would probably be worth watching, but unless you really like religious programming, the latter isn't worth it either.


Also from WTBY-DT's tower site is WRNN-DT, which shows mostly infomercials but has an all anime subchannel. I wouldn't expect you to receive either one.


- Trip


----------



## Packeteers

Snell & Tripp, thank you for addressing my concerns so well.


Tripp, if I wanted to tune into 55.1 WLNY-DT from my zip code;
*55 WLNY-DT RIVERHEAD NY 50miles 75°* from RabbitEasrs.info

does this only apply to Analog transmissions or DTV as well?

I doubt I will bother, so this question is just idle curiosity










On a related topic: I'd like to buy a cheap >$10 compass since I'll

be doing at least 3 Roof Antennas for relatives over the next year.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/B000093ILT 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/B000FETBBA 

what is your opinion of these water borne dial plastic case models.

I assume the larger one is better for antenna work. I would prefer

buying the smaller one so I can also use it for my hiking navigation.

Suggestion for RabbitEars: you might want to try to superimpose

a compass wallpaper behind the transmission direction graphics;


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Packeteers* /forum/post/13733739
> 
> 
> Snell & Tripp, thank you for addressing my concerns so well.
> 
> 
> Tripp, if I wanted to tune into 55.1 WLNY-DT from my zip code;
> *55 WLNY-DT RIVERHEAD NY 50miles 75°* from RabbitEasrs.info
> 
> does this only apply to Analog transmissions or DTV as well?
> 
> I doubt I will bother, so this question is just idle curiosity



They turned their analog signal off a while ago. WLNY-DT is a digital-only station on channel 57. They remap to 55-1 still though, as far as I know.



> Quote:
> Suggestion for RabbitEars: you might want to try to superimpose
> 
> a compass wallpaper behind the transmission direction graphics.



It's a good idea. I'll talk to my programmer about it next time he's available.


Glad you found my site useful! I found your listing of the station call signs from a while back useful in the New York listings. =)


- Trip


----------



## jpr281

Just noticed that WPIX is now doing the 10 o'clock news in HD. I wonder if the morning show will follow suit on Monday?


----------



## OldSenileGuy

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but I have a question about my cable box from TWC, the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD.


I live in a studio apartment, and crazy as it sounds, the click-click-clicking sound of the DVR constantly writing to the hard drive, even when the cable box is off, is annoying when I'm trying to sleep.


Is there any way to put it into a kind of sleep mode where it only writes to the HDD if I've specifically set something to record? I know that my current method, pulling the plug out every night, can't be good for the hard drive. And also when I do that, if I forget to plug it back in in the morning I don't get to record any of my stuff I'd set to record during the day. Is there a way to temporarily stop recording of all live stuff?


----------



## jpr281




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OldSenileGuy* /forum/post/13743553
> 
> 
> Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but I have a question about my cable box from TWC


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post13742882


----------



## OldSenileGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpr281* /forum/post/13744079
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post13742882



****, I knew that. Thanks.


----------



## ukitali

I'm getting all my basic HD OTA channels except 4.1 and 13.1. I live within a couple of miles of the ESB facing north on the second floor. At the moment I'm just using rabbit ears. Is there any other antenna I can get that would pick up those two channels? The cable on my current antenna is pretty short so I really can't move it around too much. Would getting an amplified antenna help?


----------



## SnellKrell

Being located "within a couple of miles of the ESB," I wouldn't recommend an amplified antenna - could overload your tuner.


Would try the Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Cirucuit City stores usually have them made by Philips.


Channel 13-DT is very, very difficult to receive.


You probably will have a good shot getting 4-DT.


Good luck!


----------



## mw390

I get 13.1 out in Levittown 99% of the time 25 miles east of ESB. I use CM4228 antenna and CM7777 amp


----------



## POWERFUL

wow then you must be in it's narrow reception range on LI.


----------



## vkristof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/13754050
> 
> 
> wow then you must be in it's narrow reception range on LI.



I also get WNET-DT, a few miles north of LIE exit 60. I have similar equipment to mw390 and then split the amplified signal between a VIP 622 and an Avermedia M780 tuner.


I recorded two hours of "Carrier" a couple of nights ago. I did not notice any signal problems during playback.


----------



## POWERFUL

I'll now have to try to receive it myself in the next few days then. I'm a few miles north of LIE exit 53.


----------



## tryin2search

Thursday, May 1st WNET 13 DT will begin simulcasting its standard programming on its digital channel. Currently they rebroadcast the national PBS HD feed on their digital channel. What isn't clear to me is whether they will have 13's regular programming as a subchannel or it will be the main channel with upconverted programs and native HD when available.


----------



## jpr281

WPIX hasn't switched to HD for the Mets game. It should be in HD.


EDIT: Finally made the switch at 4:23.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpr281* /forum/post/13793099
> 
> 
> WPIX hasn't switched to HD for the Mets game. It should be in HD.



just switched over.... phew.


----------



## the-sloth

i'm seeing sporadic drops during todays game on CW.... every so often the signal just shoots down to 0% and then pops back up. i'm only like 20 blocks from ESB and i have clear line of sight. my signal strength is pegged at 100% normally and i've never really had any problems like this. anyone else seeing these little blips?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/13759224
> 
> 
> Thursday, May 1st WNET 13 DT will begin simulcasting its standard programming on its digital channel. Currently they rebroadcast the national PBS HD feed on their digital channel. What isn't clear to me is whether they will have 13's regular programming as a subchannel or it will be the main channel with upconverted programs and native HD when available.



The simulcasting will have the same programming on 13-Analogue and

13.1-Digital.


I saw "This Old House" and it was wide screen, but didn't appear to be HD.


"Keeping Up Appearance" was shown in 4x3.


The simulcasting will cause less confusion and will allow the transition to

Channel 13-DT next February to be more logical and easier for the audience.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just noticed that 11.2 is no longer a SD simulcast of 11.1.


11.2 is now carrying LATV.

http://www.latv.com


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13793417
> 
> 
> i'm seeing sporadic drops during todays game on CW.... every so often the signal just shoots down to 0% and then pops back up. i'm only like 20 blocks from ESB and i have clear line of sight. my signal strength is pegged at 100% normally and i've never really had any problems like this. anyone else seeing these little blips?



FYI- the HD feed of WPIX that directv provides is also experiencing sporadic blips.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13793417
> 
> 
> i'm seeing sporadic drops during todays game on CW.... every so often the signal just shoots down to 0% and then pops back up. i'm only like 20 blocks from ESB and i have clear line of sight. my signal strength is pegged at 100% normally and i've never really had any problems like this. anyone else seeing these little blips?



I saw a similar issue on my Dish-942. I switched to my Dish-622 and didn't see any other issues. I don't know if it's the frequency, power or quality of signal but it seems that CW has more issues than any of the other major networks.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/13794098
> 
> 
> I saw a similar issue on my Dish-942. I switched to my Dish-622 and didn't see any other issues. I don't know if it's the frequency, power or quality of signal but it seems that CW has more issues than any of the other major networks.



i tried my HR20, H20 and the tuner on my pioneer pdp set... all were doing the same thing. odd.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/13793498
> 
> 
> Just noticed that 11.2 is no longer a SD simulcast of 11.1.
> 
> 
> 11.2 is now carrying LATV.
> 
> http://www.latv.com



In case anyone wanted more info:



> Quote:
> *LATV Inks Deal with Tribune Broadcasting*
> 
> Bilingual Entertainment Network to Air on The CW Affiliates' Digital Channels
> 
> 
> By Michael Malone -- Broadcasting & Cable, 4/29/2008 12:30:00 PM
> 
> 
> Bilingual entertainment network LATV is partnering with Tribune Broadcasting to air LATV on the digital channels of The CW affiliates in New York, Chicago and Dallas.


 http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...dustryid=47171


----------



## UnnDunn

What happened to TheTube? It used to be on 11-2.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UnnDunn* /forum/post/13796818
> 
> 
> What happened to TheTube? It used to be on 11-2.



It went belly-up!


----------



## the-sloth

anyone catch this....

*WNBC Launching 24/7 News Channel*
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...s_channel.html 



The article states



> Quote:
> The yet-unnammed 24-hour service will launch either late this year or early next and occupy the digital cable channel WNBC 4.4.



is it safe to assume that they are misusing the "digital cable" bit and mean that it's going on their digital transmitter at 4.4?



EDIT: just found this article in times.... it makes no mention of it being available OTA and only says that local cable providers will have access to it. anyone have any solid information on this?



> Quote:
> The 24-hour news will be available to customers who have digital service on cable systems in the New York area, including Time Warner, Cablevision and Comcast. It is expected to begin in November.


 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/ar...rssnyt&emc=rss


----------



## shadowcaster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/13823076
> 
> 
> 
> is it safe to assume that they are misusing the "digital cable" bit and mean that it's going on their digital transmitter at 4.4?



I'd say yes. Now if NBC would only bring their transmit power up to the FCC allowable, so that us poor folks in Suffolk county could receive the damn signal !!


----------



## StudioTech

Well 4.4 is already on most of the cable systems in the area so all they'll be doing is replace the programming that's on there now.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/13823119
> 
> 
> Well 4.4 is already on most of the cable systems in the area so all they'll be doing is replace the programming that's on there now.



yeah.... i'm not worried about it being on cable. i don't subscribe to cable, i'm just wondering if they are dumping the current programming on 4.4 (which is junk anyhow) and replacing it with this new local news channel. i don't normally watch WNBC, but this would definitely be nice since i don't have access to NY1.


----------



## StudioTech

From the articles I've read, they're dumping what's on 4.4 now and replacing it with the newschannel.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/13823267
> 
> 
> From the articles I've read, they're dumping what's on 4.4 now and replacing it with the newschannel.



nice. regarding the articles i posted.... it's comical how clueless these people are regarding what digital television channels are available. the article in the Daily News and the Post both reference '4.4' and call it a digital cable channel.


----------



## jaypb

For me, the kicker is seeing the banner moving across the bottom of the screen telling people that all these subchannels are available on digital cable, seeing the weather segment and the posting on screen of how there's a digital channel available with weather reports....with a mention of "on digital cable channel"...within EACH cable system.....BUT I HAVE YET TO SEE ANY OF OUR LOCAL CHANNELS SAY, "Hi there stupid viewer---did you know that you can tune into subchannel x.2.3.4 on your BRAND SPANKING NEW digital TV you just bought....or on your BRAND NEW digital converter that you just bought....and watch our programming"?


Nah, I guess there are no viewers in the tri-state area who are "OTA" only viewers.....must be all cable subs watching the locals out here.....










I think it's pretty ironic that the government is forcing everyone to "move" to the digital domain....and the local stations are running banners on the bottom telling you to go to www. xxxxx.com to get more info on the digital transition....yet they NEVER mention word one to their viewers that they CAN tune into these new stations WITHOUT having to pay a dime to cable/satellite services.


Funny... or maybe I've just missed those segments......


----------



## StudioTech

You're right. Every time WNBC mentions Weather Plus during their weather reports, they only mention the cable systems that carry it, and AFAIK have never said that you can also pick it up OTA on 4.2


----------



## the-sloth

yeah... one would think think that these stations would do everything possible to let viewers know that they don't need to be held hostage by the cable company just to get access to their channel.


----------



## jaypb

...man, it doesn't seem that I complained about it _THAT_ long ago...but time flies when you're having fun.....









http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...er#post9141467


----------



## radio_dave

I've connected a simple Radio Shack V/U/F yagi antenna, roof mounted, to a Magnavox DA converter TB100MW9, no amp. The UHF section looks to be about 12 elements. I am in Milford, CT, about 55 miles from ESB 180' ASL. I have tried to make this similar to Packeteers format, posted back in April, to make it easy to compare.


CH.X IDENTITY RF SIGNAL*STRENGTH

2-1 WCBS-DT 56/98

4-1, 4-2, 4-4 WNBC-DT 28/86

5-1, 5-2 WNYW-DT 44/90

7-1, 7-2, 7-3 WABC-DT 45/96

9-1, 9-2 WWOR-DT 38/80

10-1 WTNH-DT 10/32

11-1, 11-2 WPIX-DT 33/80

13-1,13-2,13-3 WNET-DT 61/70

21-2,21-3,21-4 WLIW-DT 22/34

25-1, 25-2 WNYE-DT 24/94

31-1 31-2 31-3 31-4 WPXN-DT 30/90

41-1 WXTV-DT 40/86

68-1 WFUT-DT 53/82


Previously, I was using a less directional attic antenna, which enabled me to additionally receive DTV's from New London 26, Bridgeport 43, Bridgeport 49, Riverhead 55, New Haven 59, Smithtown 67. Unfortunately with that set up, WNBC-DT and WNET-DT wouldn't come in. Must've been too much multipath or something. I haven't been able to pick up WNJU-DT no matter what. Their analog signal is just fine.


----------



## LolaR

I really hope I'm not posting on the wrong thread. I just got my DTV converter box and the quality of the channels I do get is gorgeous! However, I lost a bunch of the ones I used to get with just by rabbit ears (grainy, but at least I had PBS then). I'm assuming I need a better antenna to get reception of all channels (and this MUST happen before tomorrow night so I can watch Lost!







). According to antennaweb.org I need an outdoor small multi-directional antenna. I can't really see myself installing something like that in my rental -- do I really need this? Plus, I'm on the top floor of a 4-story walk-up in a very residential part of Bklyn (not many tall buildings here), so I think that something like an outdoor/rooftop thing would be overkill. Is there such a thing as a great indoor antenna I can just get instead?


Thanks!


----------



## Trip in VA

The antenna you have is a great VHF antenna, but given that all the digitals are on UHF (above channel 13), you need a UHF antenna of some kind. How do channels 31, 41, and 47 look on analog? Those should be a good indicator of what kind of signal you'll receive; the clearer those are the better.


I recommend you try the Silver Sensor indoor antenna (it's sold under a different name now, something like the PHDTV-1) and see if that helps.


You may not have much luck with WNET-13 though, they're operating at low power until next year, but being as close as you are, it's certainly worth a try. I managed to receive it from my grandparents' house in Fair Lawn NJ with the Silver Sensor.


Also try physically moving your antenna. Turns out that even pointed in the same direction, just changing your antenna's location can be enough to allow some stations to come in.


Good luck; let us know how it turns out. =)


- Trip


----------



## Roger Lococco

I purchased a PHDTV3 today from Target, surprisingly it works better than the classic Silver Sensor, I was wary of getting it because of the negative reviews on Amazon, etc.


----------



## spanky28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/13877473
> 
> 
> I purchased a PHDTV3 today from Target, surprisingly it works better than the classic Silver Sensor, I was wary of getting it because of the negative reviews on Amazon, etc.



Did you make this purchase at a brick & mortar Target location? If so, which one in NYC & how much was it?


In the market for a new antenna. Currently using the Silver Sensor with a Samsung DTB-H260F in 11691, which is 26 miles SE of ESB. Oddly enough, can only lock into NBC during crappy weather like the last few days. Never able to pick up WNET. I'm planning to pair the old Silver Sensor with a new Zenith DTT900 CECB, which works like a charm in the other bedroom (go figure).


Before seeing your post, I was about to order a DB2 and mount it indoors somehow.


TIA for any additional info.


----------



## Roger Lococco

I got mine at the Target in Elmhurst (Queens Place Mall) for 39.99, I'm not sure if I can actually recommend the PHDTV3, it works if you have a TON of patience, for instance I was getting extremely frustrated moving it around trying to find the sweet spot for WNBC-DT, 'til I luckily found the only spot where the signal was strong and stable.

The only reason I got it was because my classic Silver Sensor fell one time too many and broke because of the heavy rg6 cable attached, the SS is said to be very fragile internally, especially the f connector, I took it apart, it is extremely cheap and crappy inside. Circuit City doesn't seem to carry the original SS anymore, I would definitely have purchased another one if they were available.

Having said that, the PHDTV3 works fairly well, and is _almost_ as good as the SS, in my particular location, and a million times better than any amplified rabbit ear/uhf loop combos, which don't work at all here. Essentially if you're getting only so-so reception with the SS, the PHDTV3 won't improve things much. The amplifier helps, but only marginally.

A DB2 is UHF only, you'll need an antenna capable of receiving VHF after the 2009 shutoff, some NYC stations will move to VHF, namely WABC, WPIX, and WNET, to their actual channel numbers (7, 11, and 13).

Your best bet, since you're 26 miles out, is an outdoor antenna.


----------



## tamahome02000

I'm in mid jersey, but most of the channels are from ny. I'm just using the radio shack 'enterprise' remote control indoor antenna. Wish I could get channel 13. I like Tim Hawkins & John Tesh on the Worship channel.









Code:


Code:


2.1     wcbs-hd         1080i (56)      
4.1     wnbc-dt         1080i (28)      
4.2     wx plus          
4.4     wnbc4.4          
5.1     wnyw-dt          720p (44)      
5.2     wwor-dt          
7.1     wabc-hd          720p (45)      
7.2     wabc+            
7.3     wabcnow            
9.1     wwor dt          720p (38)      
9.2     wnyw dt          
11.1    thecw11         1080i (33)      
11.2    cw11sd           
25.1    wnye1                 (24) 
25.2    wnye2            
31.1    ion                   (30)
31.2    qubo
31.3    ionlife
31.4    worship
41.1    wxtv dt               (40) 
47.1    wnju dt               (36)
50.1    wnjn-dt               (51)
52.1    wnjt-dt               (43)
58.1    wnjb-dt               (8)      
58.3    njn-3
58.4    njn-4
58.5    njn-hd          1080i           prime time only
63.1    wmbc-d1               (18)
63.2    wmbc-d2
63.3    wmbc-d3
63.4    wmbc-d4
68.1    wfut-dt               (53)

Njn seems to float around on different frequencies. (8, 43, 51...)


----------



## spanky28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/13912269
> 
> 
> A DB2 is UHF only, you'll need an antenna capable of receiving VHF after the 2009 shutoff, some NYC stations will move to VHF, namely WABC, WPIX, and WNET, to their actual channel numbers (7, 11, and 13).
> 
> Your best bet, since you're 26 miles out, is an outdoor antenna.



Thanks for your input. You made some really good points. However, an outdoor antenna isn't a viable option for me. I think I'm going to roll the dice with a DB2 mounted indoors. When the time comes, I'll combine it with a VHF antenna.


It just bugs me that there's no appropriate "sweet spot" in my room to pick up WNBC on a consistent basis with the Silver Sensor/Samsung DTB-H260F. Yet in the next bedroom over, while testing the newly acquired $20 Zenith DTT900 CECB, I was able to lock on right away with the SS. Maybe I should switch rooms or run my antenna from there!










FYI, If you're able to return the PHDTV3 at Target, Amazon still carries the SS for half of what you paid for the PHDTV3.


----------



## Roger Lococco

thanks, a new SS would be great for now, but when 2009 comes, I'd have to go out and try some indoor VHF antennas and use a combiner on them, there is nothing I hate more than trying out antennas and returning them, so I'll hold onto the PHDTV3 for now, and hope it can pick up the VHF stations in the future.


----------



## Skyeclad

Does anyone else notice that WNBC is the worst signal strength/quality of all the major network channels broadcast from the Empire State Building? I live near Bridgeport, CT and use a CM4228 and I get WABC-DT and WNYW-DT nearly perfectly, WCBS is good but not perfect and I'm on the fringe of corruption with WNBC. Is this typical of what some have experienced out on the fringe?


----------



## tamahome02000

Nbc new york is definitely more dependent on direction. Here's what I receive in 12 different uhf antenna directions:

Code:


Code:


2.1     wcbs-hd         1080i (56)      3   5 6 7 8 9 10
4.1     wnbc-dt         1080i (28)          5 6 7 8   10 11 12
5.1     wnyw-dt          720p (44)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
7.1     wabc-hd          720p (45)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
9.1     wwor dt          720p (38)  1 2 3   5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
11.1    thecw11         1080i (33)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
25.1    wnye1                 (24)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
31.1    ion                   (30)  1     4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
38.5                          (38?) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12      audio only
41.1    wxtv dt               (40)  1 2 3   5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
47.1    wnju dt               (36)    2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
50.1    wnjn-dt               (51)      3 4 5         10
52.1    wnjt-dt               (43)              7 8 9
58.1    wnjb-dt               (8) vhf
63.1    wmbc-d1               (18)    2                  11
68.1    wfut-dt               (53)    2     5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
(njn has an hd channel in prime time only, on 3 different channels)


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/13928790
> 
> 
> Does anyone else notice that WNBC is the worst signal strength/quality of all the major network channels broadcast from the Empire State Building? I live near Bridgeport, CT and use a CM4228 and I get WABC-DT and WNYW-DT nearly perfectly, WCBS is good but not perfect and I'm on the fringe of corruption with WNBC. Is this typical of what some have experienced out on the fringe?



Similar results for me from Monroe, also on a 4228. 99 on CBS and FOX, 90ish on ABC, NBC is iffy.


I actually get better reception on WPIX-DT than WNBC-DT.


And, before you ask, I'm at elevation in Monroe, and actually have LOS to the ESB.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/13928926
> 
> 
> Nbc new york is definitely more dependent on direction. Here's what I receive in 12 different uhf antenna directions:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 2.1     wcbs-hd         1080i (56)      3   5 6 7 8 9 10
> 4.1     wnbc-dt         1080i (28)          5 6 7 8   10 11 12
> 5.1     wnyw-dt          720p (44)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> 7.1     wabc-hd          720p (45)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> 9.1     wwor dt          720p (38)  1 2 3   5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> 11.1    thecw11         1080i (33)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> 25.1    wnye1                 (24)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> 31.1    ion                   (30)  1     4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> 38.5                          (38?) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12      audio only
> 41.1    wxtv dt               (40)  1 2 3   5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> 47.1    wnju dt               (36)    2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> 50.1    wnjn-dt               (51)      3 4 5         10
> 52.1    wnjt-dt               (43)              7 8 9
> 58.1    wnjb-dt               (8) vhf
> 63.1    wmbc-d1               (18)    2                  11
> 68.1    wfut-dt               (53)    2     5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
> (njn has an hd channel in prime time only, on 3 different channels)



It's just like real estate - it's location, location, location!


Power also plays a role, but 4's ERP should be more than adequate.


2,4,7,9,11 and 13 all currently transmit from the ESB using Channel 2's
non-directional antenna.


As of February 2009 so much will change.


----------



## tamahome02000

What's ERP? Strange, I can't get digital channel 13 at all in mid jersey.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/13930398
> 
> 
> What's ERP? Strange, I can't get digital channel 13 at all in mid jersey.



It's "Effective Radiated Power."


It's not strange that you can't receive Channel 13. Many can't.


The station currently broadcasts on the highest channel allocation of the major stations in the metropolitan area - Channel 61. The higher the channel the more power is need - and 13's power is the lowest of all major stations in the metro area.


Two strikes against you and others being able to receive the station.


----------



## Skyeclad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/13929857
> 
> 
> Similar results for me from Monroe, also on a 4228. 99 on CBS and FOX, 90ish on ABC, NBC is iffy.
> 
> 
> I actually get better reception on WPIX-DT than WNBC-DT.
> 
> 
> And, before you ask, I'm at elevation in Monroe, and actually have LOS to the ESB.



I am basically at the Merritt Pkway and can only get some reception on channel 4 in one single degree (257) with my HDHR tuner. Almost any deviation from 257 causes loss of signal quality. My cheap Insignia/LG tuner can handle a greater range of direction but unfortunately, that doesn't drive my HTPC setup.


This wasn't always the case. I used to get decent signal quality in the Fall/Winter. Perhaps signal quality is degraded due to leaves on the trees?


----------



## tamahome02000

Also, according to antennaweb, you need a medium directional antenna (red) for nbc, so there's something different about it.


The rest are small multidirectional (yellow), except 13 which is medium multidirectional (green). It also has 9 in secaucus, nj and 13 in newark, nj.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/13930548
> 
> 
> Also, according to antennaweb, you need a medium directional antenna (red) for nbc, so there's something different about it.
> 
> 
> The rest are small multidirectional (yellow), except 13 which is medium multidirectional (green). It also has 9 in secaucus, nj and 13 in newark, nj.



Take this site with a lot of grains of salt. It has a lot of old and just plain incorrect information.


Channel 9 is licensed to Secaucus, NJ and 13 is licensed to Newark - that has absolutely nothing to do with the location of its transmission.


Both transmit from the same antenna atop the Empire State Building!


----------



## hancox

I'd suggest using tvfool - I've found their maps and rating to be VERY accurate, and also informative (i.e. I'd need a 200' tower to get WFSB-DT due to terrain and their tower location - LOL)


----------



## OWENF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/13929911
> 
> 
> It's just like real estate - it's location, location, location!
> 
> 
> Power also plays a role, but 4's ERP should be more than adequate.
> 
> 
> 2,4,7,9,11 and 13 all currently transmit from the ESB using Channel 2's
> non-directional antenna.
> 
> 
> As of February 2009 so much will change.



Is 5 still on the ESB as well ?

Having a tough time pulling it in but that may be due to the other station on 44 (wmcm atlantic city).

2 & 7 are good and 9 is fair so I get WNYW on 9.2 but would love 5.1

come the Fall.

Regards

Owenf


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, 5 is still on the ESB using its own antenna and with the highest power in the

NYC Metro area.


The station's deal with the FCC to "gain" all that power was to transmit using a directional pattern to specifically avoid interference with 44 in A.C.


On 9.2, yes, you're getting NY digital Channel 5 but it's only Standard Definition!


----------



## Skyeclad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/13929857
> 
> 
> Similar results for me from Monroe, also on a 4228. 99 on CBS and FOX, 90ish on ABC, NBC is iffy.
> 
> 
> I actually get better reception on WPIX-DT than WNBC-DT.
> 
> 
> And, before you ask, I'm at elevation in Monroe, and actually have LOS to the ESB.



One other question, did you notice better reception in the Fall/Winter which got progressively worse as Spring arrived?


----------



## tamahome02000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/13931084
> 
> 
> I'd suggest using tvfool - I've found their maps and rating to be VERY accurate, and also informative (i.e. I'd need a 200' tower to get WFSB-DT due to terrain and their tower location - LOL)



Nice website! http://tvfool.com


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/13934220
> 
> 
> One other question, did you notice better reception in the Fall/Winter which got progressively worse as Spring arrived?



The moisture in foliage, tree leaves, etc. attenuates UHF signals


----------



## spanky28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spanky28* /forum/post/13915308
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to roll the dice with a DB2 mounted indoors.



My DB2 came in yesterday. Mounted it on my wall inside my bedroom, fired up my DTB-H260F & eagerly anticipated all the glorious channels I will now be receiving that I didn't with my Silver Sensor. After the scan, I was disappointed to find out that I'm still not able to receive WNBC & WNET.


C'est la vie. Will box up the DB2 and ship it back to Amazon.


Off-topic, but on the other side of the coin, after many years I canceled my analog cable tv service last week with Time Warner Cable. In the past, I wasn't able to receive any channels with the DTB-260HF's QAM tuner. Out of curiosity yesterday, I did another scan & am now able to receive a glorious selection of channels via QAM! I guess they removed the analog "filter" on my line.


----------



## POWERFUL

Try to move the antenna around your place and see if you can then pick up 13 or 4 digital before sending it back. I have an outdoor mounted amped DB4 antenna 36 miles out from the ESB and I pick up 4 digital with about 60-70 even with the foliage around me.


----------



## kousikb

I am about 33 miles away from ESB. I do get WNBC consistently in all weather. But I had to struggle to find out the sweet spot with my indoor antenna. I don't get WNET at all in my current place. In my previous apartment (26 miles away from ESB), I used to get WNET occasionally with my TV's inbuilt tuner. After I got the Zenith DTT900, it used to pull up WNET consistemtly. But in my present location, it no longer pulls it consistently. Thus, I am in the process of building two UHF antenna (hoverman and the CM4221 clone - 4 bay) with maximal gains around channel 50, so that it can get WNET. I figured that after the digital transition, I will need to build a different antenna to have the maximal gain shifted to VHF-Hi and UHF instead of high UHF. Lets see how it works out. Also, I have read many reviews that CM4228 are far far better than DB8/DB4/DB2. So you may want to try that in indoor setup. If you are DIY person, you may want to try different 4-bay setups/hoverman before taking a plunge on a commercial built 4-bay/8-bay antenna. You can get most of the stuffs for building antenna in your local lowes/home depot within $10.


----------



## spanky28




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/13962623
> 
> 
> Try to move the antenna around your place and see if you can then pick up 13 or 4 digital before sending it back. I have an outdoor mounted amped DB4 antenna 36 miles out from the ESB and I pick up 4 digital with about 60-70 even with the foliage around me.



After reading your post, I unpacked the DB2 & armed with a 12' coax cable, I spent 30 minutes positioning it in different spots in my bedroom to no avail.


An outdoor, amped antenna might be the solution, but that's not feasible for me at the moment.


Thanks anyway.


----------



## POWERFUL

I lived in a basement apartment in Flushing 2 years ago and got all the digitals with my Radioshack 15-1880 antenna all the channels. It's an amped indoor antenna and I still have it, if you want it PM me.


----------



## tamahome02000

In case you're pining for digital channel 13:

http://www.thirteen.org/about/digital 



> Quote:
> Please note: Some viewers may still have trouble receiving Thirteen DTV before February 17, 2009 - even with a dual-antenna and a converter box. This is due to the reduced-power transmitter Thirteen has been using since the destruction of the World Trade Center. If you cannot receive Thirteen DTV, you can watch the non-digital Channel Thirteen on an old-style analog television set, or by using a converter box with an analog pass-through feature, until February 17, 2009, when Thirteen will switch to a high-power DTV transmitter that will reach everyone in the viewing area.


----------



## hancox

...or just fire up WLIW-DT as an HD channel... (sigh)


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/13994347
> 
> 
> ...or just fire up WLIW-DT as an HD channel... (sigh)




Which would make perfect sense since 13 owns WLIW!


There used to be a channel 21.1 which was HD.


I imagine for the sake of economy, that station was shut down.


I would have thought with the difficulty that the audience has had

with receiving 13.1 O-T-A, that WNET's management wouldn't have

been that quick to adandon 21.1.


But that was not the case.


----------



## Trip in VA

Speaking of WLIW-DT, I wonder if (and if so, when) WNET plans to move it to the ESB or possibly Freedom Tower. Channel 21 from that location will be a killer signal in all directions; nothing to cause interference to it. I can't imagine them not doing it, considering they'd gain all those viewers in New Jersey and the Yonkers area and others...


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech

Being that WLIW is licensed to Garden City, would they even be allowed to move it to the ESB? Or does one not have anything to do with the other?


----------



## Trip in VA

They'd certainly be allowed. The FCC requires that they put a minimum amount of signal into the city of license, wherever they transmit from, and the ESB would definitely fulfill that requirement. Especially given that WLIW would be the odd man out--people can aim their antennas in one direction and expect to receive everything but WLIW. The FCC generally seems sympathetic to such concerns.


I imagine NJN would fight such a move tooth and nail though, so if WNET wants to move WLIW to, say, Freedom Tower, they should probably start the process soon.


- Trip


----------



## the-sloth

2, 4, 9, 11, and 13 are all down right now for me. 5 & 7 are coming in very very weak (i'm like 20 blocks from ESB and usually have 100% lock on all of the locals). the D* HD locals for NYC seem to be offline as well (MPEG4 as well as MPEG2). anyone know what's going on?


----------



## Straphanger

Yeah I noticed this too just now. All channels except 5 and 7 are down for me. At first I thought my antenna fell over or my new TV tuner card was faulty but I think it's just overnight maintenance at the ESB. As long as they come back in the morning...it's all good.


----------



## tamahome02000

Same here.


Still can't receive 13.1 (61). Grrr. Tvfool says I should be able to.


----------



## the-sloth

everything seems to be back online now. the only difference i see is that WCBS seems to be weaker than it was before. anyone else notice a drop in signal on WCBS?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/13998951
> 
> 
> They'd certainly be allowed. The FCC requires that they put a minimum amount of signal into the city of license, wherever they transmit from, and the ESB would definitely fulfill that requirement. Especially given that WLIW would be the odd man out--people can aim their antennas in one direction and expect to receive everything but WLIW. The FCC generally seems sympathetic to such concerns.
> 
> 
> I imagine NJN would fight such a move tooth and nail though, so if WNET wants to move WLIW to, say, Freedom Tower, they should probably start the process soon.
> 
> 
> - Trip



A few thoughts concerning WLIW and NJN.


First, it would be great if WLIW were to move to the ESB. I hope it will happen but here's what mitigates such a thing.


Money - with government, industry and viewers feeling the economic pinch, even with federal grants to switch to digital, I doubt if funds would be available for such a move.


Next, even with analog facilities being removed from ESB, things will remain extremely tight. My understanding is that WNET, after 2/09, will be part of a High-VHF combiner sharing an antenna with WABC and WPIX.


Concerning NJN. What a history!


Money prolbems have caused NJN to halve the power level its stations are using.


With NJN fighting the possibility of WLIW moving to ESB, please take into account the history of this entity "selling-out" for financial "pay-offs."


Years ago, WNJN, out of Montclair, NJ, the NJN station closest to the majority of the population in the NY DMA, had channel 50 on what is now Time Warner Cable in NYC. There was no room on the cable system for Food Network.


NJN "sold" its right to be on this huge cable system to Food. The FCC allowed this!


Incredible! It's truly not the station's right to sell its channel allocation, it's really the public's right to see the channel. Talk about mixed priorities. A huge Commisssion blunder. Whom so they think they represent?


Then NJN had its fight with WABC-DT. WABC wanted to move from channel 45 to channel 7, the station's analog allocation.


NJN protested because it has a station, WNJB in New Brunswick, NJ assigned to digital channel 8. Realize that Montclair is the prominent NJN station for the NY DMA, not New Brunswick, but channel 8 is a part of the metro area.


NJN extracted its pound of flesh from WABC and is building a new transmission facility at 4 Times Square - wonder who footed that bill?

Does "Mouse House" sound familiar?


According to FCC rulings - channels 7 and 8 can be assigned to the same market if they are "co-located." That is, their transmission facilities are located together. The Commission considers 4 Times Squre and the ESB and essentially the same location for this purpose.


So, oddly enough, in the NY market, we will have a station from New Brunswick, NJ becoming the primary O-T-A NJN station, not the one from Montclair!


Go figure!


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/14002484
> 
> 
> everything seems to be back online now. the only difference i see is that WCBS seems to be weaker than it was before. anyone else notice a drop in signal on WCBS?



yes, mild picture breakup on the Early Show.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14002622
> 
> 
> 
> According to FCC rulings - channels 7 and 8 can be assigned to the same market if they are "co-located." That is, their transmission facilities are located together. The Commission considers 4 Times Squre and the ESB and essentially the same location for this purpose.
> 
> 
> So, oddly enough, in the NY market, we will have a station from New Brunswick, NJ becoming the primary O-T-A NJN station, not the one from Montclair!
> 
> 
> Go figure!



I'm curious then why WWOR-DT is staying on 38 and not moving back to 9. Was that by choice or some other reason?


----------



## SnellKrell

We need the pros here to answer that one.


It may well be that three contiguous channels might be too much, and also there's the cost factor - if you stay where you are, it doesn't cost additional money!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/14005814
> 
> 
> I'm curious then why WWOR-DT is staying on 38 and not moving back to 9. Was that by choice or some other reason?



Too close to WTNH-DT 10 in New Haven, and WBPH-DT 9 in Bethlehem, and WEDH-DT 9 in Norwich.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14002622
> 
> 
> Money - with government, industry and viewers feeling the economic pinch, even with federal grants to switch to digital, I doubt if funds would be available for such a move.



The added viewers of WLIW leads to added exposure leads to more $$$ in the pledge drives. Especially since it'll allow them to show a whole bunch of subchannels to the whole market (WLIW, World, Create, maybe some others in the future).



> Quote:
> Next, even with analog facilities being removed from ESB, things will remain extremely tight. My understanding is that WNET, after 2/09, will be part of a High-VHF combiner sharing an antenna with WABC and WPIX.



Yeah, that's why I suggested Freedom Tower. I imagine there'll be lots of space there.



> Quote:
> With NJN fighting the possibility of WLIW moving to ESB, please take into account the history of this entity "selling-out" for financial "pay-offs."
> 
> 
> Years ago, WNJN, out of Montclair, NJ, the NJN station closest to the majority of the population in the NY DMA, had channel 50 on what is now Time Warner Cable in NYC. There was no room on the cable system for Food Network.
> 
> 
> NJN "sold" its right to be on this huge cable system to Food. The FCC allowed this!
> 
> 
> Incredible! It's truly not the station's right to sell its channel allocation, it's really the public's right to see the channel. Talk about mixed priorities. A huge Commisssion blunder. Whom so they think they represent?



Wow, I'd never heard that one before. Amazing.



> Quote:
> Then NJN had its fight with WABC-DT. WABC wanted to move from channel 45 to channel 7, the station's analog allocation.
> 
> 
> NJN protested because it has a station, WNJB in New Brunswick, NJ assigned to digital channel 8. Realize that Montclair is the prominent NJN station for the NY DMA, not New Brunswick, but channel 8 is a part of the metro area.



It matters not what station is "prominent" but WNJB-DT is only 25 miles or so from WABC-DT, and both stations will interfere with each other without WNJB-DT moving to Times Square. The FCC's allowing WABC-DT to return to 7 despite the interference, and I can't imagine it'll be good for either signal.


Also, I was under the impression that WNJB was the "prominent station" given that NJN appears on channel 58 on satellite, or did last time I saw it.



> Quote:
> NJN extracted its pound of flesh from WABC and is building a new transmission facility at 4 Times Square - wonder who footed that bill?
> 
> Does "Mouse House" sound familiar?
> 
> 
> According to FCC rulings - channels 7 and 8 can be assigned to the same market if they are "co-located." That is, their transmission facilities are located together. The Commission considers 4 Times Squre and the ESB and essentially the same location for this purpose.
> 
> 
> So, oddly enough, in the NY market, we will have a station from New Brunswick, NJ becoming the primary O-T-A NJN station, not the one from Montclair!
> 
> 
> Go figure!



Stations have to be within 14 miles of each other to be considered "co-located." Besides, didn't NJN ask for the Times Square thing way back when ABC was fighting for channel 7? Are you sure ABC is paying for it? (It wouldn't surprise me if they were, given they'll likely have a channel 7 antenna there that channel 8 could be combined into, but I'm just wondering)


Also, please note that the FCC has NOT approved WNJB-DT's attempt to move to Times Square. They've applied and been turned down once (or twice?), but I think they're planning to apply again soon now that the FCC's freeze has been lifted.


- Trip


----------



## adm

Noticed tonight that all of my OTA HD access from Ch 2, 4, 7, 9 were "TOOO LOW RECEPTION SIGNAL".


Am I alone? Or is there something else going on?


Cure my paranoia and tell me that it is because of a problem with the signal transmitted from CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, Otherwise...


----------



## SnellKrell

No difference for me.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14008740
> 
> 
> No difference for me.




Is Cablevision (or someone else) your service provider?

That could be considered as the main point of the post.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adm* /forum/post/14008907
> 
> 
> Is Cablevision (or someone else) your service provider?
> 
> That could be considered as the main point of the post.



Totally confused.


Aren't we talking about O-T-A reception?


What does Cablevision have to do with your point about poor reception?


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14008925
> 
> 
> Totally confused.
> 
> 
> Aren't we talking about O-T-A reception?
> 
> 
> What does Cablevision have to do with your point about poor reception?



Maybe it is me and my misunderstanding of terminology. No offense intended.


I have Cablevision as my service provider. I also have a Panny 50px600 which has a QAM that allows me to have the RG-6 cable wire from Cablevision plugged directly into the Plasma. I can then capture the HD channels that are carried in the background (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX etc) [as in 02-1, 04-1, 05-1, 07-1]. Those are all listing as "TOOOOOOO LOW A SIGNAL".


----------



## O2C

OTA refers to Over-The-Air, that is, receiving a transmission from a broadcast tower via an antenna. You are looking for answers in the wrong place if you have questions about channels carried by cables or a service provider. The appropriate thread would be someplace like New York, NY - Cablevision , found by searching for "New York" and/or "Cablevision".


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14008088
> 
> 
> Also, I was under the impression that WNJB was the "prominent station" given that NJN appears on channel 58 on satellite, or did last time I saw it.



While DirecTV does use 58 for the channel position, the signal that's used is actually from WNJS in Camden! Go figure.


----------



## adm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *O2C* /forum/post/14009154
> 
> 
> OTA refers to Over-The-Air, that is, receiving a transmission from a broadcast tower via an antenna. You are looking for answers in the wrong place if you have questions about channels carried by cables or a service provider. The appropriate thread would be someplace like New York, NY - Cablevision , found by searching for "New York" and/or "Cablevision".



O2C,


Thanks for the link to the correct thread. I did realize that OTA refers to Over-The-Air, however, I was not aware of the one you directed me to, so I have been following this one for the longest time in the background. Yes, your link is more definitely appropriate.


Appreciate the support.

..Mark


----------



## snapcoyote

I lost a lot of OTA HD channels as well recently in the NYC metro area. Only Fox-HD comes in fine. The rest (CBS, NBC, UPN, WB) just dropped off for some reason. Any news on this yet?


----------



## O2C

I quickly ran through my channels just now and saw no difference. Maybe a tree just put out enough leaves / construction on a building has blocked the signal path you were receiving before? Have you tried relocating or reorienting your antenna?


----------



## Michael554

Hey everyone, first post but I've read through a bunch of the thread already.


I'm in the Financial District and I'm having trouble picking up really a good signal, presumably due to curtain of office buildings directly in my LOS to the ESB. With a basic UHF/VHF indoor antenna I was able to pick up some of the higher transmission power channels (4.1, 7.1, 11.1, 9.1, etc) at about 70% strength but 13.1 and 5.1 wouldn't come in. I read somewhere that an amplified antenna might work for urban settings so I picked up the RCA ANT1251 because it offered 55 db of gain. This setup resulted in no change for the channels that were already coming in, I can now get 13.1 at about 50% most of the time, and 5.1 is in and out, usually at 30%.


I'm wondering if the Silver Sensor will improve upon my current situation. Specifically, I'm wondering if a highly directional antenna will work well with all that steel and concrete between me and the transmitter? If anybody could share their thoughts on this I would really appreciate it.


----------



## SnellKrell

Michael -


Try the Silver Sensor - find a place to buy it where you can return it if it doesn't improve your reception.


Specifically, because of all of the buildings in the way, a highly directional antenna, such as the Silver Sensor is best for you. Most likely, you will be tuning-in on reflected, known as multipath signals.


13.1 is very difficult to receive, as so many of us know.


Give the Silver Sensor a try.


----------



## shadowcaster

For the firrst time, this week, I can now receive the NBC digitals ! Yay.

(Western Suffolk, north shore.) They must have upped there transmit power closer to the FCC allowable.


----------



## n2ubp

WNBC 4.1 4.2 4.4 is coming in solid in Orange County, Middletown, NY, 50-60 miles northwest of NYC. H20 DTV receiver shows a 74-75 signal strength.

Usually they come in at a 3 - 5 signal strength (not viewable)

Steve

N2UBP


----------



## syosseteer

I noticed the same thing starting about 2 weeks ago. I'm about 30 miles east of the ESB on Long Island. I had no reception of NBC prior and now the reception is consistently solid. They must have made some change to their system recently.


Tom


----------



## jaypb

Wonder if everyone seeing increased signal strengths is benefiting from whatever "work" is being done when the transmitter is shut down at ~1am a few days over the last couple of weeks. Several times recently I've went to go and sit down to watch COnan and have only had ~23 minutes....and the Leno that airs at 3:05 isn't recorded....because no signal is available (I'm recording OTA BTW)...


----------



## JoeWS

At 60 miles SW of NYC, I have also noticed more consistent reception this week. I usually experience intermittent problems with CW11, NBC4, and WWOR9, but not this week. Still no WNET13, but I know they are on low power. FOX5 (44.1) never comes in and still is not. I believe the problem is related to Channel 44 in South Jersey. I hope that is resolved after Feb09.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeWS* /forum/post/14099753
> 
> 
> At 60 miles SW of NYC, I have also noticed more consistent reception this week. I usually experience intermittent problems with CW11, NBC4, and WWOR9, but not this week. Still no WNET13, but I know they are on low power. FOX5 (44.1) never comes in and still is not. I believe the problem is related to Channel 44 in South Jersey. I hope that is resolved after Feb09.



I have a feeling that what is being reported by many as improved reception is not due to changes being made atop the ESB, but the inconsistencies of UHF Digital transmission - temperature, humidity, etc.


Concerning FOX5, sorry - but come February '09, nothing will change.

WNYW-DT will continue to transmit on Channel 44 using its directional antenna. When the station increased its power, it had to change its transmission pattern to be directional to assure that it would not interfere with WMCN-DT, also Channel 44, out of Atlantic City. This NJ station will continue to use Channel 44 after the changeover.


----------



## Skyeclad

Well reception for NBC did improve a bit until the thunderstorms came and took away a significant amount of signal quality overall. This week though I can't help but feel that CBS switched places with NBC as the current network with signal problems.


Hard to say definitively though since my HDHomerun tuners are not the best that I've seen at handling tough signals.


----------



## jpr281

WPIX hasn't switched to HD for the Mets game.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpr281* /forum/post/14136762
> 
> 
> WPIX hasn't switched to HD for the Mets game.



does wpix have a engineering phone number someone can call? i've called their general number before, but i always get an answering service.


----------



## StudioTech

It appears that WNBC 4.4 is now airing Universal Sports, which used to be named WCSN before NBC made a sizable investment in the network. Not sure when WNBC started airing it, but it appears that they're running it 24/7 for the time being.


----------



## jaypb

I did notice a USA Olympics women's softball game on last weekend (against China??) but didn't notice if all the programming on 4.4 was sports at that point....


----------



## OWENF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/14173491
> 
> 
> It appears that WNBC 4.4 is now airing Universal Sports, which used to be named WCSN before NBC made a sizable investment in the network. Not sure when WNBC started airing it, but it appears that they're running it 24/7 for the time being.



I notice this on 6-16-08. the same time they encrypted on c-band g23 satellite. Will other DMA NBC channels be broadcasting OTA ?

Regards

Owenf


----------



## cgott42

I live in Rockland County (Spring Valley, NY 10977)- what is the best NON attic NON roof mounted antenna that I can buy for OTA HD channels reception - i.e. something I can just put on top of the TV or next to a window or something.


thanks


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma

From what I understand that at one time there were several stations on the ESB on separate antennas stacked one on top of the other. The ones on the top had the best range. Then most went to the WTC until 9-11-01. Then they went back to the ESB. Dielectric makes a broad band UHF broadcast antenna. I know of stations in other cites that have a 2000-foot tower & several TV stations will share the same antenna. Thus they will all get the top mounted antenna. Does any one know if antenna like this has been mounted on the ESB? If so that would account for more height, extended range & stronger signal. I am not aware if there is a broad band VHF high band antenna that accommodates several channels. But they may be available also. If this is the antenna that they are using. Does any one know which antenna is on the very top? The UHF with the VHF under it?


----------



## dturturro

Anyone else missing Fox this afternoon?


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/14215245
> 
> 
> Anyone else missing Fox this afternoon?



I just lost ALL my channels except WABC at about 3:20 PM. I think something happened w ESB


----------



## seamus21514

Same here. I can't get WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WNYW-DT, WWOR-DT, and WPIX-DT. Something must be up.


----------



## icemannyr

Same in NJ. I get a very low signal from all the NYC locals and can't tune any channel in.


----------



## seamus21514

I have every channel but WNYW back up. I'm close to the city, so they may all be broadcasting at reduced power, but I can't tell...


----------



## mw390

I'm out in Nassau County. Everything except WNYW-DT back. WNBC-DT @ 94% for example. SO I think WABC went to 4 Times for backup, the other guys came back and WNYW has their own antenna.


----------



## OWENF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seamus21514* /forum/post/14215753
> 
> 
> I have every channel but WNYW back up. I'm close to the city, so they may all be broadcasting at reduced power, but I can't tell...



Seamus,

I just got home. some channels are still there(receiving at Bucks Co. Pa) so I don't think its reduced power

I was getting 4 but its gone. 2,7,9,11,25 and the subs are all still working here. Never able to get 5 yet.

Regards

Owenf


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OWENF* /forum/post/14216217
> 
> 
> Seamus,
> 
> I just got home. some channels are still there(receiving at Bucks Co. Pa) so I don't think its reduced power
> 
> I was getting 4 but its gone. 2,7,9,11,25 and the subs are all still working here. Never able to get 5 yet.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Owenf



Bucks County? What do you have? One of Jodie Foster's radio telescopes? Also, you'll probably never get WNYW-DT as they are on channel 44 and I understand there's a Philadelphia station on 44 so WYNW has to direct its signal sort of eastward from Manhattan


----------



## OWENF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/14216304
> 
> 
> Bucks County? What do you have? One of Jodie Foster's radio telescopes? Also, you'll probably never get WNYW-DT as they are on channel 44 and I understand there's a Philadelphia station on 44 so WYNW has to direct its signal sort of eastward from Manhattan



Its a peice of a directional uhf only antenna. Stamp on the side says Lindsay. I been told that rf 44(NYC) will probably never happen because of the rf 44 in/near atlantic city. I may try the 91xg in the near future. Football season starting soon.

Regards

Owenf


----------



## mw390

All my NYC HD locals back this AM. Everyone else out there okay too??


----------



## cgott42

Should I start a separate thread - so my question doesn't get lost in here (with 234 pages!) ?

Question being- I live in Rockland County in the valley (Spring VALLEY, new york -10977)- what is the best NON attic NON roof mounted antenna that I can buy for OTA HD channels reception - i.e. something I can just put on top of the TV or next to a window or something.


thanks


----------



## dturturro

Yes, the locals are back.


The Silver Sensor is the best indoor antenna.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/14222691
> 
> 
> Yes, the locals are back.
> 
> 
> The Silver Sensor is the best indoor antenna.



Seconded....Silver Sensor.............


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/14223092
> 
> 
> Seconded....Silver Sensor.............



Thirded! Silver Sensor!


----------



## POWERFUL

Fourth!


----------



## ja2bk

Not only are they back, at a friends house actually finally picked up Thirteen (61). That was a nice surprise since it hadn't picked it up previously. I only wish I had remembered to check the signal strength.


----------



## tamahome02000

I still can't get 13.1 (61) in central jersey, darnit. Although a coworker in the next down says he can with a terk antenna. I have the radio shack remote control one.


----------



## SnellKrell

As as been often mentioned, including by me, 13.1 (61) is the most problematic channel to receive in the NY Metro area.


Combination of the lowest power and the highest frequencyassignment.


Come 2/18/09, the digital station will leave UHF and migrate to VHF, Channel 13.


That should, I hope, open a whole new world of O-T-A viewers!


----------



## mokomok

Hi, new to the forum and have been perusing this super informative thread. I am getting a new HDTV (my first) and am looking into antennas before it arrives. I live in Brooklyn, not far from most of the towers (< 5 miles). I also live in an apartment that has no roof antenna and won't allow me to install anything on the outside of my apartment (ground floor, street windows), so an indoor antenna will be my pursuit. Most recommendations here are telling me I should go with a directional like the silver sensor - there seem to be two? PHDTV3, which has both uhf and vhf, and PHDTV1, which appears to be uhf only. I have also heard that a multi directional uhf/vhf antenna like the Philips MANT510 would be good for my situation. I could, of course, get a bunch and try them to see, but wanted to see if anyone here could sway me in one "direction" first. Thanks in advance!


----------



## dturturro

Start with the Silver Sensor. Don't worry too much about VHF as the low band (2-6) won't even be used after the analog shutdown and the high band (7-13) usually comes through on a good UHF antenna.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/14229336
> 
> 
> Start with the Silver Sensor. Don't worry too much about VHF as the low band (2-6) won't even be used after the analog shutdown and the high band (7-13) usually comes through on a good UHF antenna.



Quite right...Start w the Silver Sensor since you're so close. I am out in Nassau County and now use a CM4228 and I get a VERY good picture from WABC-7 which is great since that is where they're going, from Ch 45 to Ch7 on 2/19 as well as 11 and 13 who are both reverting back there too.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/14225709
> 
> 
> Not only are they back, at a friends house actually finally picked up Thirteen (61). That was a nice surprise since it hadn't picked it up previously. I only wish I had remembered to check the signal strength.



I'm out in Levittown (Nassau - closer to Suffolk than Queens) and I just checked WNET-HD 88 % signal strength.


----------



## cgott42

thanks I'll try the silver sensor.
http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/...nsor/st=query/


----------



## mokomok

thanks for the advice. I'll report with my findings once I've got the PHDTV1 and my incoming Samsung T240HD...


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/14229336
> 
> 
> Start with the Silver Sensor. Don't worry too much about VHF as the low band (2-6) won't even be used after the analog shutdown and the high band (7-13) usually comes through on a good UHF antenna.



...unless you're using a UHF only pre-amp...which would remove the VHF reception IIRC.


----------



## mokomok

So I got my HDTV and the Silver Sensor. It took some insane amount of placement trial and error, but at my best here's what I get on digital reception: Ch 56 (2.1 - WCBS), Ch 28 (4.1, 4.2, 4.4 - WNBC), Ch 44 (5.1 - WNYW, 5.2 - WOR), Ch 45 (7.1, 7.2, 7.3 - WABC), Ch 24 (25.1, 25.2 - WNYE), Ch 30 (31.1, 31.2, 31.3, 31.4 - WPXN). That's not bad, I think, but I can't explain why I don't see anything at all from Ch 38 (9.1, 9.2 - WOR-DT), Ch 33 (11.1, 11.2 - WPIX), or Ch 61 (13.1, 13.2, 13.3 - WNET). It's like from where I am, they aren't even broadcasting, as any direction I point that thing gets absolute 0% on each one of those. The other channels I do get (as mentioned above) drop out maybe a half second every two minutes - kinda annoying as well. At this point, I'm not super concerned since I can get most of those channels in HD over QAM from the trickle out the cable wire. However, I can't help thinking this antenna might not be the best for my situation. Details: I live in an apartment building (brownstone) that is five stories tall. Most of the buildings on my block are about the same height. I live on the first floor, and have a window looking out onto the street. Outdoor antenna is not possible, since I have no outside area that is exclusive to my use. The silver sensor (PHDTV1) is hooked up with a nice RG-6 cable and situated about 10 feet above the floor, near the window. Funny that the best signal strength I've been able to get (read: most consistent on each of those channels) is with the SS fitted vertically in the base and pointed 180˚ away from the direction of the main towers (according to tvfool). Any ideas as to what I should try next? I assume that there is a huge amount of interference with all the buildings around. I also assume that dropouts might be happening due to ghost reflections? It's not bad, I just think it could be way better and am still baffled as to how I can't see a drop from those channels that appear to be broadcasting from the same location and similar power as the ones I get. Attached here is my tvfool spec. I think I gave up after Ch 34...


----------



## atlanticview

I've just moved here and have an apartment down in the west village. I'm on the 4th floor, but my window faces northwest. I went to tvfool.com and looked at the information for it, and saw that the antennas are located at 50 degrees or so (Empire State Building) and after Feb 2009, some will move to 250 degrees.


This basically means any indoor antenna I have will go through a brick wall (or two or three). Anyone out there in the village who has any experience with this? Just trying to figure out if I need cable service or not with my internet.


Thanks!


----------



## O2C

The way things are in the city, without clear line-of-sight, there's no real way of telling what signals you might or might not receive short of trying things out. It's very possible that you may be able to get a decent signal in another direction, bounced off some other building. Also, post Feb '09 stations may boost their signal strength significantly or change frequencies all together.


Your answer is pretty much the same as everyone elses' -- for now, try a silver sensor in different locations throughout your apartment, pointing in different directions.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atlanticview* /forum/post/14280187
> 
> 
> I've just moved here and have an apartment down in the west village. I'm on the 4th floor, but my window faces northwest. I went to tvfool.com and looked at the information for it, and saw that the antennas are located at 50 degrees or so (Empire State Building) and after Feb 2009, some will move to 250 degrees.
> 
> 
> This basically means any indoor antenna I have will go through a brick wall (or two or three). Anyone out there in the village who has any experience with this? Just trying to figure out if I need cable service or not with my internet.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



As others have said, you never know what you can receive or not - it's experimenting with each and every channel that's of interest to you.


I agree about the Silver Sensor - try it - if you can, buy it where you can return it if just doesn't do the job for you.


Concerning stations moving from the Empire State Building to 250 degrees - not sure what that's all about. It might be in anticipation of stations moving from the Empire State to the Freedom Tower.


If the Freedom Tower move does take place - it probably won't be until 2012 at the earliest. So you have plenty of viewing to be done from the Empire State location.


Hope this has helped.


----------



## atlanticview

Thanks... I figured there's no way but just to try it. Guess I'll have to get a TV and an antenna at the same time. How are the policies of Circuit City or Best Buy? Is there a better choice out here?


----------



## SnellKrell

Last I looked, Circuit City had stopped carrying it - only had amplified version - which you really don't need.


Home Depot is now carrying the Philips version of the Silver Sensor - Model PH-DTV1.


Great return policy at Home Depot.


Try it!


----------



## O2C

I didn't have any issues returning an antenna I tried out from the SoHo Best Buy recently. No hassle, no restock fee. Ask first and double check the posted return policy or the one on the receipt.


Did you see the silver sensor in a NYC Home Depot? It's labeled as online only on the website, but the Manhattan store carries a weird selection. . .


----------



## SnellKrell

No, I saw the Silver Sensor listed on the Home Depot Web site.


----------



## POWERFUL

Can you return it to a store if you buy it online?


----------



## Roger Lococco

has anyone else been receiving odd ota reception these last few days, WABC seems messed up and unreceivable, and over the weekend I was receiving all sorts of distant stations on my dtt901 (probably because of the weather).


----------



## sys_epoll




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/14301434
> 
> 
> has anyone else been receiving odd ota reception these last few days, WABC seems messed up and unreceivable, and over the weekend I was receiving all sorts of distant stations on my dtt901 (probably because of the weather).



Roger,


Here in central NJ, we have lost all DT, with the exception of a very spotty WABC-DT. Even WCBS-DT (the strongest here) is gone. Disappointing considering Feb 2009 is coming fast, and it will be several years before antennas will be relocated from the ESB.


Tom


----------



## mokomok

As of now, I've kind of given up on consistency from OTA where I live. I'm getting great clear QAM HD for all my locals through the leftover pipe from TWC - I hope that don't go away any time soon! Still paying for cable internet, so maybe that signal will keep truckin' down the line to my house...


----------



## Roger Lococco

thanks Tom, I was starting to wonder if there was something wrong with my antenna or 901.


----------



## pug_ster

Yesterday, I remember that I was able to get WABC, WNBC, WCBS, WB11, WNYW, and WWOR. Today I was only able to get 5-1 and 5-2 (WNYW and WWOR) I wonder why this is happening...?


----------



## jaypb

My only chime in is to see if anyone who either watches Conan live at 12:37 am or DVR's it at that time OTA has noticed that at 1 am (usually sharp) their recording "stops". But yet the 3 am airing of Conan comes through fine. Are they testing from 1 am to pre-3am ?!?! In the "old days" if the signal went down at 1am it seemed to stay down past 3 am.


Annoying to say the least! If you're going to do some testing/repairs, why not do it AFTER your first run nightime talk show ends!!!


----------



## BCCISProf

The title says it all.... anyone have any idea what is happening?


Up until last night I was able to receive all the above. Now they are gone.


----------



## O2C

I'm experiencing issues on those stations too. Very large drop in signal strength from most, to point of problems where there weren't any before. WPIX / 11 which was iffy at times, is down to zero.


I'd guess heat issues caused them to drop output power, but that's a WAG.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/14308850
> 
> 
> The title says it all.... anyone have any idea what is happening?
> 
> 
> Up until last night I was able to receive all the above. Now they are gone.



WABC is spotty and i'm in midtown with a rooftop antenna and direct line of sight to the north (i'm in the west twenties). all the other networks are locked in at 90+. typically WABC is 95+ for me.


is WABC transmitting from ESB or Conde Nast now?


----------



## BCCISProf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/14308850
> 
> 
> The title says it all.... anyone have any idea what is happening?
> 
> 
> Up until last night I was able to receive all the above. Now they are gone.




I have been in contact with an engineer from WCBS NY. All of these channels have switched over to a backup antenna while work is being done on their main antenna. However, apparently Brooklyn needs a "fill" antenna since it is not covered by their 'backup" antenna. I am told that this "fill" antenna will be turned on sometimes tonight.


I will be in touch with them as the matter progresses.


I must complement the engineers at WCBS. They replied to my email within minutes, and got back to me later in the afternoon with additional information.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/14314199
> 
> 
> I have been in contact with an engineer from WCBS NY. All of these channels have switched over to a backup antenna while work is being done on their main antenna. However, apparently Brooklyn needs a "fill" antenna since it is not covered by their 'backup" antenna. I am told that this "fill" antenna will be turned on sometimes tonight.
> 
> 
> I will be in touch with them as the matter progresses.
> 
> 
> I must complement the engineers at WCBS. They replied to my email within minutes, and got back to me later in the afternoon with additional information.



Thanks so much for the information.


Earlier this evening I was installing my new DirecTV over-the-air tuner and was so very disappointed in its sensitivity.


Fortunately, it's not the fault of the new tuner.


Again, many thanks to you and the WCBS engineer.


----------



## pug_ster

I forgot to mention I live in Brooklyn. Thanks for the information. Hopefully they would get it fixed by next week


----------



## BCCISProf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/14314199
> 
> 
> ...apparently Brooklyn needs a "fill" antenna since it is not covered by their 'backup" antenna. I am told that this "fill" antenna will be turned on sometimes tonight.



I have been informed that there was trouble with the Brooklyn "fill "antenna that will require additional testing. Currently it is scheduled to go online either Monday or Tuesday morning.


----------



## dan57

For what it's worth, I have observed no issues the last few days with OTA broadcasting of NY stations here in Central Jersey.


----------



## sys_epoll




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dan57* /forum/post/14318497
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I have observed no issues the last few days with OTA broadcasting of NY stations here in Central Jersey.



I guess I'm getting nailed by the 2-edge diffraction loss, as for the past week, digital reception has been so poor as to be unwatchable. Right now I'm getting no digital channels at all. My location must be extremely sensitive to TX antenna vertical height. Sheesh.

Location: Monmouth County, NJ

BTW: Analog is coming in fine.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma

They may be putting up a broad band UHF antenna on the very tiptop. They may have to take some [NTSC] antennas down so that the permanent antenna will be on the very tiptop. They may have the DTV antennas on a temp antenna lower down while the permanent one goes on the top. Thus temporarily the DTV signal may be weak. When you e-mail WCBS engineer ask him if this is what they are doing. Also One thing I have taken note of: When I have lost some of my DTV stations & moved my antenna to the analog tuner. I then found out why DTV was out, some distant NTSC station was coming in over ridding the local DTV signal. I saw some NTSC stations coming in. That will really clear up after 2-19-09. Right now the FCC has the DTV stations with only 20 percent of the max of the NTSC stations. Also since the stations are using 2 channels they are using channels closer to each other than the FCC normally allows. On the same channel used, the stations were about 200 miles apart. But since they are running close on channels available to be used they are running them too close. That will also clear up after 2-19-09.


----------



## Straphanger

I have been noticing some problems with my signal recently. I'm about 5 miles away from the ESB in Queens and ABC (usually one of the strongest) occasionally has stuttering and picture breakup. There have also been some periods of no signal recently as well. Hopefully things will be ironed out soon.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Straphanger* /forum/post/14323741
> 
> 
> I have been noticing some problems with my signal recently. I'm about 5 miles away from the ESB in Queens and ABC (usually one of the strongest) occasionally has stuttering and picture breakup. There have also been some periods of no signal recently as well. Hopefully things will be ironed out soon.



Many of us are as work is being done on the ESB!


----------



## hoxbox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/14318035
> 
> 
> I have been informed that there was trouble with the Brooklyn "fill "antenna that will require additional testing. Currently it is scheduled to go online either Monday or Tuesday morning.



Thanks for the info! I just moved into 14 story building in Brooklyn with clear line of sight of midtown and I was scratching my head why I get 5.1 and 7.1 no problem (if I turn on signal booster on my Philips antenna the signal actually drops!) but miss the other networks. Hopefully this will be resolved next week.


----------



## SnellKrell

hoxbox -


Your signal booster (amplifier) is not only not needed when you're so close to the

Empire State Building, but the reason your signal drops when using it, is that you're probably overloading your receiver's tuner.


I would never amplify the signal being located where you are!


----------



## the-sloth

anyone know what's going on with WABC's transmitter on ESB (or conde nast, i can't recall if they moved or not.) i'm less than 20 blocks from ESB with a rooftop antenna and I used to have WABC pegged near 100% signal strength.... the past week it has taken a nosedive and now i can't even get a picture.


----------



## SnellKrell

What I think is causing your problem, per the information here, is that work is being done on the Combiner antenna atop ESB, and WABC-DT is a part of this.


Stations are now using backup equipment - concerning WABC-DT, this could very well mean that this station is using its alternate at 4 Times Square (Conde Nast Building).


----------



## the-sloth

even still.... i'm in the west 20s, so conde nast isn't far either.... if i swing my DB2 south and point it towards brooklyn i can get a signal, but then all the other channels take a big hit.


has anyone gotten an ETA on the amount of time the combiner is going to be down?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/14329336
> 
> 
> even still.... i'm in the west 20s, so conde nast isn't far either.... if i swing my DB2 south and point it towards brooklyn i can get a signal, but then all the other channels take a big hit.
> 
> 
> has anyone gotten an ETA on the amount of time the combiner is going to be down?



It will be great when the finish. Then all the UHF sations will share the top mount & all the stations will wamp out the power. I wish the engineers would kindly up date us on the status so we do not think that some thing is wrong with our dtv tuners & antennas It causes a lot of not needed stress when they know that their signal is going to be weak while the are moving the analog antennas & the temp antennas out the way to mount the perment antennas. We do not have the money in our budget to pay for the OTA signals. It is spent on gas. So we llve with what we can get free on the antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/14331821
> 
> 
> It will be great when the finish. Then all the UHF sations will share the top mount & all the stations will wamp out the power. I wish the engineers would kindly up date us on the status so we do not think that some thing is wrong with our dtv tuners & antennas It causes a lot of not needed stress when they know that their signal is going to be weak while the are moving the analog antennas & the temp antennas out the way to mount the perment antennas. We do not have the money in our budget to pay for the OTA signals. It is spent on gas. So we llve with what we can get free on the antenna.



I would be interested to find out why people are saying that "all the UHF stations will share the top mount."


As of 2/17/09, the the three New York High-VHF stations, WABC-DT (7),

WPIX-DT (11) and WNET-DT-13, will be sharing the higher portion of the

ESB mast at 405 meters (HATT) vs. the UHF stations, WNYW-DT (45)

at 367 meters and a combiner for WNBC-DT (28), WCBS-DT (33) and

WWOR-TV (38) sharing an antenna at 397 meters.


VHF stations will be at a higher position than the UHFs!


I cannot logically see stations expending tight budgets to change positions

now that will then have to be changed for the February magic date.


It would make absolutely no sense.


I would think whatever is being done now is in anticipation for 2/09.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14331945
> 
> 
> I would be interested to find out why people are saying that "all the UHF stations will share the top mount."
> 
> 
> As of 2/17/09, the the three New York High-VHF stations, WABC-DT (7),
> 
> WPIX-DT (11) and WNET-DT-13, will be sharing the higher portion of the
> 
> ESB mast at 405 meters (HATT) vs. the UHF stations, WNYW-DT (45)
> 
> at 367 meters and a combiner for WNBC-DT (28), WCBS-DT (33) and
> 
> WWOR-TV (38) sharing an antenna at 397 meters.
> 
> 
> VHF stations will be at a higher position than the UHFs!
> 
> 
> I cannot logically see stations expending tight budgets to change positions
> 
> now that will then have to be changed for the February magic date.
> 
> 
> It would make absolutely no sense.
> 
> 
> I would think whatever is being done now is in anticipation for 2/09.



The analog low band vhf antennas will not be needed after sign off on 02-17-09. They want the DTV antennas that will stay after 2-17-09 to be on the top, one under the other. But the low band analog antennas are still being used until then. Therefore it does make sense them to be moved from the best location to a temp location to make way for the perment to have the best location


----------



## Digiti

Can anyone explain to me why I lost the channel 4 NBC HD Feed as well as the CBS Channel 2 HD feed OTA in the last few days in Kew Gardens, N.Y.? I checked the rooftop antenna and everything seems to be OK. Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digiti* /forum/post/14334216
> 
> 
> Can anyone explain to me why I lost the channel 4 NBC HD Feed as well as the CBS Channel 2 HD feed OTA in the last few days in Kew Gardens, N.Y.? I checked the rooftop antenna and everything seems to be OK. Thanks.



Just look above - work is being done on the Empire State Building's mast.


Power way down on those stations using the Combiner.


----------



## Digiti




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14334257
> 
> 
> Just look above - work is being done on the Empire State Building's mast.
> 
> 
> Power way down on those stations using the Combiner.




Thanks for the info and reply. I just needed reassurance that the problem was not on my end.


----------



## rothe

I was trying to find ANYTHING on the web about who does the maintenance on the Empire State Building antennas, and when/why/etc, but came up with nothing. But I did find a few interesting links.


Check this one out for an idea of just how many stations are broadcasting from that site:

http://www.lnl.com/esbantennas.htm 


And check this one out for an idea of what it's like to actually be up there, working on those antennas:

http://www.laforetvisuals.com/main.php 


(choose index / perspectives/ new york moments, then scroll forward to image 6 of 9)


----------



## Skyeclad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/14336242
> 
> 
> And check this one out for an idea of what it's like to actually be up there, working on those antennas:
> 
> http://www.laforetvisuals.com/main.php
> 
> 
> (choose index / perspectives/ new york moments, then scroll forward to image 6 of 9)



How do they do it?


----------



## clio22

FWIW, I emailed CBS, NBC, WPIX, WNET and the ESB Sunday night asking about this problem. So far (Mon 11 PM) I've received no reply other than a canned email receipt confirmation from ESB.


If the ESB antenna work is true, I don't understand why the networks wouldn't have broadcast some notice. It's grossly irresponsible of them to leave thousands of viewers in the dark.


Naturally, I'll post if and when I hear something back.


Bonnie


----------



## SnellKrell

The work is "true."


I've checked the FCC filings of each member station of the Combiner project.


In many ways, WWOR's paper work tells the most.


The current work is scheduled to be completed by August 4th - the replacing of the currently shared DTV system on the ESB. Once completed, the new system will improve the abilities of the member stations (2, 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13) in providing better over-the-air signals to viewers in Brooklyn and Queens. This system will become the post-transitional system.


The filing also mentions to the Commission that working on the ESB has special problems.


The observation deck, which is located directly below the broadcast antenna systems, operates into the early hours morning hours.


The nightly work starts as early as 12 midnight. This allows 4-5 work hours per night , yielding 3-4 hours of actual on-tower work time.


Stations anticipate that after this phase is finished and the new Combiner is operational, additional work will continue not just until the magic 2/17/09 date, but until the fall of 2010.


All of the above and more is available from the FCC data bank - station's Form 387.


----------



## dturturro

After cable, satellite and fiber how many OTA enthusiasts do the broadcasters really care about? It's all about numbers.


----------



## BCCISProf

As of Tuesday morning, (here in Southern Brooklyn) I again am able to receive DTV OTA Channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11 without any problems.


Channel 13 still does not come in. Hopefully that too will be fixed in the near future.


----------



## ghostie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BCCISProf* /forum/post/14341417
> 
> 
> As of Tuesday morning, (here in Southern Brooklyn) I again am able to receive DTV OTA Channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11 without any problems.
> 
> 
> Channel 13 still does not come in. Hopefully that too will be fixed in the near future.



Is it truly back? I'm in Brooklyn (Sunset Park) and as of 7pm today, I still only get one bar for channel 4. It used to be my strongest channel with 8+ bars. I get channel 5 and 7 quite strong though. Those channels never lost strength for me in the last few days. Meanwhile, I don't get channel 2, 9, 11 or 13 anymore.


----------



## dagger666

I'm using very old RCA rabbit ears and have been having trouble with channel 9,11,2 past few weeks. Today i hooked a 2 foot long piece of tin foil to the UHF ring and got all my stations back. What i find strange is that I'm on the queens/Nassau border about 13 miles from the city and can't get digital 13. I know they broadcast on UHF 61 but can't pick up a single. i do get 25, 21(UHF 22),41, and of course 2 - 11 but not 8 or 10. channel 31 which is on UHF 30 also escapes me.


----------



## jpg7

I am in the general Cobble Hill area experiencing the same thing on 2, 4, 9, 11, and 13. This morning I got some improvement but it's much weaker than it was before. I followed a previous poster and e-mailed the WCBS engineer who has been very good about getting back with me.


Monday night/Tuesday morning they went to full power on the new antenna. I had to reply to him to let him know the impact to my reception. Here's what I am seeing:


Station, meter range before, meter range after

WCBS, 55 - 75, 10 - 35

WNBC, 80 - 95, 30 - 50

WWOR, 65 - 95, 25 - 45

WPIX, 80 - 95, 20 - 40

WNET, 30 - 55, 0 - 5


I am in a top floor apartment and using rabbit ears (note that these significantly outperform the silver sensor for me). Anything over 35 on the meter gets me a solid picture, so I am in dropout land. Also every station needs a different antenna orientation now. It's as if the new antenna is at much weaker power or is highly directional away from Brooklyn.


----------



## SnellKrell

It really isn't surprising that digital 13 can't be received.

Beside its current allocation on channel 61, it is also has the weakest signal

from ESB.


Put the two together - highest channel frequency and lowest power -

disasterous reception!


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpg7* /forum/post/14347185
> 
> 
> I am in the general Cobble Hill area experiencing the same thing on 2, 4, 9, 11, and 13. This morning I got some improvement but it's much weaker than it was before. I followed a previous poster and e-mailed the WCBS engineer who has been very good about getting back with me.
> 
> 
> Monday night/Tuesday morning they went to full power on the new antenna. I had to reply to him to let him know the impact to my reception. Here's what I am seeing:
> 
> 
> Station, meter range before, meter range after
> 
> WCBS, 55 - 75, 10 - 35
> 
> WNBC, 80 - 95, 30 - 50
> 
> WWOR, 65 - 95, 25 - 45
> 
> WPIX, 80 - 95, 20 - 40
> 
> WNET, 30 - 55, 0 - 5
> 
> 
> I am in a top floor apartment and using rabbit ears (note that these significantly outperform the silver sensor for me). Anything over 35 on the meter gets me a solid picture, so I am in dropout land. Also every station needs a different antenna orientation now. It's as if the new antenna is at much weaker power or is highly directional away from Brooklyn.



Things are getting very, very confusing!


It is my understanding that the original Combiner is currently being replaced by two new ones. This has nothing to do with 7,11 and 13 eventually going high-VHF.


The main new Combiner will be on the ESB mast serving 2, 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13as had been the original Combiner (WCBS-DT's omni-directional antenna).


The second new one is located below the mast and mounted on the Northwest and Southeast sides of the building. This is a backup facility.


I have a feeling that what you were told that the new antenna went full power Monday night/Tuesday morning that statement had to do with the backup antennas mounted below the mast, not the higher, new main antenna.


At least let's all hope so. Because if this is full power that we're getting from the mast, a lot of us are in deep, deep trouble.


Also remember, as I've previously posted, according to Channel 9's filing with the FCC, the completion date is scheduled to be August 4th. Maybe they over estimated and gave themselves some wiggle room, or what I hope is the case that they are continuing to work and we're not experiencing the full power from the main Combiner.


Keep your fingers crossed!


----------



## BCCISProf

It is my understanding that they are currently not broadcasting from the ESB, but are instead are using a backup antenna plus a special antenna to cover Brooklyn (which apparently is in the "shadow" area of the backup antenna.) If this is true, then things are not quite back to where they used to be. Depending where you are in Brooklyn, you might be catching the tail-end of the Brooklyn "shadow" antenna.


However, the point is that they are doing major work on the ESB which may take sometime to complete.


At this time (in the Marine Park area of Brooklyn) I am getting 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 without any problem using a rooftop (2 floors) antenna. No 13, but I never received that.


----------



## tamahome02000

I'm in central nj. Can get everything but cbs.


----------



## clio22

Well, since you've read through the FCC filings, Snell, my emails to network stations are mooted out. I haven't heard back, anyway, except for the ESB who sent me the email address of, I assume, one of the engineers at the ESB. Sent one off to him/her before I read the good (?) news in the thread today.


I'm in like Flint. Here in Long Beach (LI) I've got:


2 - 81%

4 - 66

7 - 92

9 - 70 (I prefer the 9 series to the 5)

11- 61

13- 50 !! (a minor miracle)

21- 61


----------



## clio22

p.s. - forgot to mention that I'm using a Phillips amplified Mant510 with DigStream in the bedroom and a RatShack amplified with RCA800B in the living room. Reception on both is perfect.


----------



## craig372

Around noon today I get the following signal strength readings:


2.x 41

4.x 73

5.x 76

7.x 41

9.x 41

11.x 70

13.x 25

25.x 78


(can't lock signals below around 45, so I am only getting 4,5,11, and 25 now)


I am in Boerum Hill, near downtown Brooklyn, and have a rooftop antenna (about 50 ft above ground) with a winegard hdp 269 preamp (to compensate for long cable runs). Just about two weeks ago I replaced my old rg59 cables with RG6 to give the high freq UHF a chance of making it to the TV. For a few days, I was getting everything (including 13!) with excellent signal strengths. I was trying to tweak things to get more reliable signals on 7 and 9 but then lost everything except 5 (and maybe 25) - apparently because they started working on the transmitting antennas. Now, a week later, at least I get something, but I sure hope they are still working on it.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/14336242
> 
> 
> Check this one out for an idea of just how many stations are broadcasting from that site:
> 
> http://www.lnl.com/esbantennas.htm



Quite impressive and that was in 1967! It would be nice to see what it's like now with all the DTV antennas. It has to be awfully crowded these days.


I'm assuming WNBC/4 is still at the top as their HAAT is listed at 439m. Will anything be that high after the transition? The highest from the Post Transition CP's appears to be WFUT at 429m, followed by WNYW at 424m.


Are there any radio stations on the WNBC/4 antenna now? I see WNBC-FM on the link, but that is no longer there, right?


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC analogue should not be confused with WNBC-DT.


The digital station currently shares a Combiner with WCBS-DT, WABC-DT, WWOR-DT,

WPIX-DT and WNET-DT.


After the transition, it will share a Combiner with the following UHF stations,

WCBS-DT and WWOR-DT. WABC-DT, WPIX-DT and WNET-DT will share their own separate High-VHF Combiner.



There is no longer a WNBC-FM. G.E. after it took over RCA got out of the radio business

and sold off all the radio holdings.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14353425
> 
> 
> WNBC analogue should not be confused with WNBC-DT.



Once analog 4 is turned off, are they just going to remove the antenna? I don't see anything else moving up that high. In other words, will the ESB retain its existing height?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14354919
> 
> 
> Once analog 4 is turned off, are they just going to remove the antenna? I don't see anything else moving up that high. In other words, will the ESB retain its existing height?



Falcon -


You bring up an interesting point.


WNBC (4) analogue appears to located at 515m HAAT on the ESB mast,

while the new High-VHF Combiner antenna is scheduled to be at 405m, and the new UHF Combiner antenna will be at 397m.


There will be no use for 4's Low-VHF antenna, but that real estate at 515m is so very valuable.


Will the ESB shrink? It has in the past when most stations went to the World Trade Center and a lot of hardware was removed.


As I said, interesting point!!!!


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14355205
> 
> 
> WNBC (4) analogue appears to located at 515m HAAT on the ESB mast,
> 
> while the new High-VHF Combiner antenna is scheduled to be at 405m, and the new UHF Combiner antenna will be at 397m.



Looking at the coords, the 515m HAAT License still appears to be for the WTC facility. I'm assuming that the WNBC analog 4 application record for 439m is for the ESB, but regardless, I don't see anything taking the place of analog 4's antenna right now.


----------



## SnellKrell

Falcon -


You're right, sorry, I mixed up the coordinates for the WTC location for those of the ESB.


Things are bit confusing here in the NY DMA!


With the work that's now being done on ESB - I no longer get WCBS-DT and WNBC-DT

(4.1 - which had been my strongest and most reliable signal) but, now for the first time am getting, although intermittently, WNET-DT!


Hoping that things will straighten out when they finally finish the work!


SnellKrell


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14358171
> 
> 
> Falcon -
> 
> 
> You're right, sorry, I meixed up the coordinates for the WTC location for those of the ESB.
> 
> 
> Things are bit confusing here in the NY DMA!
> 
> 
> With the work that's now being done on ESB - I no longer get WCBS-DT and WNBC-DT
> 
> (4.1 - which had been my strongest and most reliable signal) but, now for the first time am getting, although intermittently, WNET-DT!
> 
> 
> Hoping that things will straighten out when they finally finish the work!
> 
> 
> SnellKrell




They are most likely waiting untill 2-19-09 since they are still running 4 analog. Then it would make sence to the take down the 4 analog antenna & put the one of the shared antennas [maybe the UHF] in place of the the old 4. I am sure they did not plan it this ways thou. It was most likely because of the 9-11-01 WTC & they did not even think they would be using ESB & this was a on the spot change. While most other cities' stations [if they were VHF low band] first put up a temp analog on the side. then dissconnected the perm from the transmitter & connect it to the temp. Then took down the perm analog off the top. Then put up a perm digital on the top. But since the ESB antennas was by the 1960s tech standards of that day & did not have shared antennas very much. Therefore the had so many antennas up there, with most having their own antenna. I can understand they have very little room up there. I am sure when they went to the WTC most of those antennas were just left up there leaving them very little room for new temp antennas or new perm antennas. Butr I am sure before 9-11-01 they did not think thkey would be trying to use that site as now. I am sure they would like to take it all down & put it all back up as perm shared digital antennas. But they need to keep 2 system on unitll 2-19-09 & as well keep the digital on ther air while they are doing all this


----------



## clio22

FYI, some excerpts from replies I received to my emails:


ESB Broadcast Mgr:


"To improve digital TV coverage, the broadcasters are installing a new antenna at the Empire State Building. Around July 15, a temporary DTV antenna was installed on the north side of the building and the existing antenna was turned off so it could be removed. A second DTV antenna to serve viewers to the south and east was also installed and placed in service this week. Installation of the new DTV antenna is expected to be completed during the first week of August, but you should be ok at this time."


13/WNET:


"We will not be broadcasting our digital signal on full strength until the federally mandated transition date of February 1, 2009."


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clio22* /forum/post/14366311
> 
> 
> FYI, some excerpts from replies I received to my emails:
> 
> 
> ESB Broadcast Mgr:
> 
> 
> "To improve digital TV coverage, the broadcasters are installing a new antenna at the Empire State Building. Around July 15, a temporary DTV antenna was installed on the north side of the building and the existing antenna was turned off so it could be removed. A second DTV antenna to serve viewers to the south and east was also installed and placed in service this week. Installation of the new DTV antenna is expected to be completed during the first week of August, but you should be ok at this time."
> 
> 
> 13/WNET:
> 
> 
> "We will not be broadcasting our digital signal on full strength until the federally mandated transition date of February 1, 2009."



I really hope that "February 1,2009" is your typo and not 13's.

If it's theirs, we're all in a lot of trouble!


----------



## dagger666

i was thinking of changing my indoor antenna from the old RCA rabbit ears to something more modern. really not sure if I'll change the rooftop antenna anymore just disconnected it. what do you think of these


HDTV Indoor / Outdoor Antenna Product ID 4730
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 


CM-4040
http://www.channelmasterintl.com/antennas_indoor.html


----------



## dagger666

seams like fox is the strongest while channel 2 and 9 are the weakest. can someone tell who ever does the traffic cam for 25-2 to do something about the noise, it drives me nuts. on another note the DTVPAL is working great now that i hooked it to an old RCA rabbit ears and placed them on top of a cabinet in the upstairs office. i get a whole bunch more channels including 31.1-5, 25.1-2, 21.1-4 but still no PBS channel 13.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14366344
> 
> 
> I really hope that "February 1,2009" is your typo and not 13's.
> 
> If it's theirs, we're all in a lot of trouble!



Well, it's probably better to make a mistake and transition on 2/1/09 than 2/1/10.










Is any of the work visible from the streets or other buildings? Hopefully, normal coverage will be restored soon.


I wonder how this will affect my reception when I'm in CT. WNYW was coming in great a couple weeks ago, but WCBS, & WWOR also made appearances. The difference between WCBS's HD news and WNYW's SD news was quite stark, however. Does WNYW have any near-term plans to upgrade?


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666*  /forum/post/14368609
> 
> 
> can someone tell who ever does the traffic cam for 25-2 to do something about the noise, it drives me nuts.



Its called too high video levels. It becomes audible and thats what you are hearing. The cameras are black and white. Notice it will be when bright white text or areas of the picture are present. I doubt they do any adjustments to the feeds from the DOT cameras.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/14372924
> 
> 
> Its called too high video levels. It becomes audible and thats what you are hearing. The cameras are black and white. Notice it will be when bright white text or areas of the picture are present. I doubt they do any adjustments to the feeds from the DOT cameras.




Zackly. My understanding is that if you're going to add text titles to a video image, you have to attenuate the video feed first so the video feed plus the titles don't create an excessive level that spills out onto the audio.


I'm just a layman and I'm vaguely aware of that. How come the technicians at Channel 25 are so clueless, if they're supposed to be professionals?


(BTW, their facilities are located in a part of Brooklyn where it's too scary for me to get out of my car even during the day.) UHF 25 was an experiment conducted by the FCC, testing the viability of the first urban UHF station. When they were finished experimenting, they donated it to the City of New York which experiments with what a complete waste of time they can make out of millions of dollars.


In the age of high permeation of cable services and must-carry regulations, it now being irrelevant whether a channel is VHF or UHF, a decent commercial enterprise should be able to turn a pretty penny with channel 25, although you'd never know it by flipping to channel 31 which shows "Mama's Family" during prime time.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/14372924
> 
> 
> Its called too high video levels. It becomes audible and thats what you are hearing. The cameras are black and white. Notice it will be when bright white text or areas of the picture are present. I doubt they do any adjustments to the feeds from the DOT cameras.



you haven't watched lately, some are now color at lest one is.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/14373121
> 
> 
> Zackly. My understanding is that if you're going to add text titles to a video image, you have to attenuate the video feed first so the video feed plus the titles don't create an excessive level that spills out onto the audio.
> 
> 
> I'm just a layman and I'm vaguely aware of that. How come the technicians at Channel 25 are so clueless, if they're supposed to be professionals?
> 
> 
> (BTW, their facilities are located in a part of Brooklyn where it's too scary for me to get out of my car even during the day.) UHF 25 was an experiment conducted by the FCC, testing the viability of the first urban UHF station. When they were finished experimenting, they donated it to the City of New York which experiments with what a complete waste of time they can make out of millions of dollars.
> 
> 
> In the age of high permeation of cable services and must-carry regulations, it now being irrelevant whether a channel is VHF or UHF, a decent commercial enterprise should be able to turn a pretty penny with channel 25, although you'd never know it by flipping to channel 31 which shows "Mama's Family" during prime time.



I think you misunderstand. I think they only take the DOT feeds and cycle through them. I'm sure its no easy task to get it right for every camera. Some look better than others.


I will say I have been there before and it was a very small budget operation. Somehow I was under the impression 25 was folded in with the NYC TV cable networks though. I figured they were no longer originating from that building in Brooklyn. Perhaps its only under the NYC TV banner, but not run out of the same location as the cable nets.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/14373123
> 
> 
> you haven't watched lately, some are now color at lest one is.



Correct you are. Haven't watched in some time. Is it still strectch on the OTA?


This audible phenomenon can happen in color video as well.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/14373121
> 
> 
> Zackly. My understanding is that if you're going to add text titles to a video image, you have to attenuate the video feed first so the video feed plus the titles don't create an excessive level that spills out onto the audio.


NTSC system has video inverted so that darkest picture sets maximum power and brightest video has the potential to pinch off visual carrier and thus must be clipped at a certain maximum level. This was chosen early on so that "snow" in pictures would appear as white speckles instead of black speckles, the preference of most observers. Intercarrier TV sets need the visual carrier to demodulate the audio from the aural carrier and when it gets 'pinched off' by excessive whites, you get buzz in the audio. This problem is eliminated in NTSC sets that demodulate aural carrier directly, and digital ATSC transmissions are immune due to using MPEG.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/14373121
> 
> 
> I'm just a layman and I'm vaguely aware of that. How come the technicians at Channel 25 are so clueless, if they're supposed to be professionals?
> 
> 
> (BTW, their facilities are located in a part of Brooklyn where it's too scary for me to get out of my car even during the day.) UHF 25 was an experiment conducted by the FCC, testing the viability of the first urban UHF station. When they were finished experimenting, they donated it to the City of New York which experiments with what a complete waste of time they can make out of millions of dollars.


I thought that Ch. 31 was the FCC's test station in NYC and the City got posession following the tests and eventually sold it for the $.







[/quote]


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/14373121
> 
> 
> 
> In the age of high permeation of cable services and must-carry regulations, it now being irrelevant whether a channel is VHF or UHF, a decent commercial enterprise should be able to turn a pretty penny with channel 25, although you'd never know it by flipping to channel 31 which shows "Mama's Family" during prime time.


----------



## the-sloth

WPIX-DT just went out for me OTA & D* HD LIL. guessing it's the same for everyone else too?


EDIT (14:20): Back up and running. Maybe someone tripped over the power cord.


----------



## Trip in VA

You'd think that WNYE-DT would pick up MHz WorldView and stick it on a 25-3 or something, given that it fits right in with the kind of programming they air on the main feed...


- Trip


----------



## the-sloth

FYI- I got this response from WABC regarding their digital transmission (or lack thereof in my situation.)



> Quote:
> We recently had to move our current DTV broadcasting to our backup location at 4 Times Square (Conde Nast) to accommodate antenna work at the Empire State Building. This may require some re-adjustment of receive antennas for close-in viewers. We expect to return to broadcasting from the Empire State Building by the end of next week.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/14402701
> 
> 
> FYI- I got this response from WABC regarding their digital transmission (or lack thereof in my situation.)



Thanks for this information.


This makes sense now. The only stations that I normally watch O-T-A that are coming in OK are WNYW-DT (never on the WCBS-DT Combiner Antenna) and WABC-DT, which is temporarily transmitting from 4 Times Square.


Can't wait to see how the new Combiner, pre-2/17, will work. I just hope it's better than what we have been used to before all the work that has been taking place.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14402802
> 
> 
> Thanks for this information.
> 
> 
> This makes sense now. The only stations that I normally watch O-T-A that are coming in OK are WNYW-DT (never on the WCBS-DT Combiner Antenna) and WABC-DT, which is temporarily transmitting from 4 Times Square.
> 
> 
> Can't wait to see how the new Combiner, pre-2/17, will work. I just hope it's better than what we have been used to before all the work that has been taking place.




i'm still kind of confused as to why i can't get a lock on their signal if they are broadcasting from conde nast.... that's only ~25 blocks from my apt. i mean it's not like i'm using rabbit ears... i have a DB2 mounted on the rooftop of a 6 story building with no nearby buildings that are much higher than my DB2.


----------



## SnellKrell

First of all, only one station has temporarily moved from the ESB to Conde Nast, WABC-DT.


As the WABC response mentioned, you're very close to the antenna and I would imagine that your antenna is aimed toward the ESB (unless you've got obstruction and are using a bounce, multipath signal). So, if it's worth your time and energy to move things to get WABC-DT, you probably would have to re-orient your antenna for this week.


If you are not receiving WNYW-DT now, it should have nothing to do with the work on the ESB. The station has not moved or changed the location of its antenna.


The only thing that I can think of is that since work is being done (it's supposed to be in the middle of the night, the station may have lowered its power.


The best thing to do is to wait until next week after all of the current changes have been made.


Hang in there!


----------



## the-sloth

sorry.... WABC-DT only. Everything else (WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WPIX, WNET) is locked at 95+ signal strength. WABC-DT used to come in at 95-100%, but a couple weeks ago it just disappeared. i tried reaiming my DB2, but the only way I could get a half decent (~65-70%) was to aim my antenna southeast (towards brooklyn), which caused me to loose all the other big channels.


while i'm sure my problem will be resolved when the go live again on ESB, but if they ever switch to Conde Nast i'm screwed. Will all of the stations continue to work together and keep the transmitters all centrally located so we don't have different channels coming from different locations?


i'm not sure if this is related, but WNYE-DT used to not work for me, but now it is...... did they move their transmitter?


----------



## seamus21514

I'm getting WNET-DT for the first time, ever. What changed? WABC-DT is fine for me also. WNYE-DT is annoying, 25-1 is streched to 16:9 automatically, so it looks terrible.


----------



## the-sloth

looks like we lost a few days worth of posts in this thread...


FYI- I pinged WABC again about their status and they said they hope to be back online at ESB this afternoon.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/14421302
> 
> 
> 
> FYI- I pinged WABC again about their status and they said they hope to be back online at ESB this afternoon.



looks like WABC-DT is back online at ESB..... my signal strength is back to where it used to be.


----------



## sys_epoll

Anyone know if the combiner stations are at full power?

No WABC-DT at my location any longer. All the combiner

stations are weaker than before the work, and now I'm getting

periodic drop outs. If this doesn't improve, I'll soon be

paying for cable. Big step backwards for my location.


----------



## Roger Lococco

ABC's finally back and strong and stable, although it wouldn't surprise me if it goes kaput again.


----------



## Skyeclad

CBS is dropping out for me. I can't keep a lock on it. If I adjust my antenna I can get a better signal but I risk other stations if I do that.


----------



## SnellKrell

In my location, the East 60s and Second Avenue, my weakest signal from the Combiner is 11. This morning, reception is so bad, the signal keeps cutting-in and out.


Otherwise, have never had stronger reception including 13 - I no longer have to put my Silver Sensor on the windowsill for this station.


----------



## svec7186

i live on 256 st in riverdale and wcbs has been out for several days now. channel 9 and 11 are also out. wabc has a weak signal. i thought this was humidity but the prob is still here.


any news on the issue?


----------



## FoggyO

The situation currently reminds me of when I first bought my HDTV (end of 2006) and the signal would go off around 12:40AM several days out of the month. Eventually I received more and more stations until I received all the stations, including WNET 13-1 and 13-2.


Currently I don't receive channels 4-1 - 4-4 ( No Olympics) and 13-1 13-2. Pixeliation on 2-1. However last Friday I got Channel 4-1 - 4-4 and 13-2, but not 7-1 or 11-1. Pixeliation on 9-1 and 31-1. Crappy stations like 25, 29, 63 I get perfectly.


I figure over the next couple of months, ESB will tweek the signals and fix it.


Live on the North Shore of LI.


----------



## cgott42

I just bought a Pinnacle Pro HD Stick (USB Tuner) (I read it was top rated for pulling in weak signals) in order to record the olympics (and later the NY Jets games) in High Def onto my laptop. The problem is that I'm not getting some of the stronger signals.

I've tested it in 2 locations: White Plains , NY (zip code 10604) and Chestnut Ridge, NY (10952).

And in the White Plains located of the major locals - I'm only getting Chan 5 & 9 (WNYW-DT and WWOR-DT - getting good signal (80%) on both)

and in Chestnut Ridge - getting a bunch of channels but not WCBS.

I've tried the included antenna and PF-7 antenna (also recommended) and gotten the same thing.


Any ideas- to get WCBS-HD and WNBC-HD?


----------



## tahoejoe

Lost my strongest station, WABC-DT ( 7) over the last few days. I'm down to 4( ok tonight, not so good last night) and 5.


----------



## Skyeclad

I wouldn't mind leaving some feedback on the situation for the Broadcast Mgr. and maybe get an update. Does anyone know the e-mail address?


----------



## svec7186

i've lost cbs, abc, 9 and 11 neverming alot of the higher channels.


this happaned within the last week or two. i've been using the zenith dtv converted for several months now without any problems.


----------



## O2C




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cgott42* /forum/post/14438093
> 
> 
> I just bought a Pinnacle Pro HD Stick (USB Tuner) (I read it was top rated for pulling in weak signals) in order to record the olympics (and later the NY Jets games) in High Def onto my laptop. The problem is that I'm not getting some of the stronger signals.
> 
> I've tested it in 2 locations: White Plains , NY (zip code 10604) and Chestnut Ridge, NY (10952).
> 
> And in the White Plains located of the major locals - I'm only getting Chan 5 & 9 (WNYW-DT and WWOR-DT - getting good signal (80%) on both)
> 
> and in Chestnut Ridge - getting a bunch of channels but not WCBS.
> 
> I've tried the included antenna and PF-7 antenna (also recommended) and gotten the same thing.
> 
> 
> Any ideas- to get WCBS-HD and WNBC-HD?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cgott42* /forum/post/14438093
> 
> 
> I just bought a Pinnacle Pro HD Stick (USB Tuner) (I read it was top rated for pulling in weak signals) in order to record the olympics (and later the NY Jets games) in High Def onto my laptop. The problem is that I'm not getting some of the stronger signals.
> 
> I've tested it in 2 locations: White Plains , NY (zip code 10604) and Chestnut Ridge, NY (10952).
> 
> And in the White Plains located of the major locals - I'm only getting Chan 5 & 9 (WNYW-DT and WWOR-DT - getting good signal (80%) on both)
> 
> and in Chestnut Ridge - getting a bunch of channels but not WCBS.
> 
> I've tried the included antenna and PF-7 antenna (also recommended) and gotten the same thing.
> 
> 
> Any ideas- to get WCBS-HD and WNBC-HD?



I'm pretty sure that PF-7 is a poor antenna choice and I'm not sure who'd recommend it. It's UHF only and claims that it has an effective range of up to 15 miles. Some of your locals will be transitioning to the VHF range and those two locations are probably some 25 miles out.


Generally speaking, an outdoor antenna will be your best bet to really pull in channels now and in the future. Depending on your exact location, you may be able to get away with less. It could also just be all the juggling they had been doing with the ESB transmitters. Short of that, the advice I've got and others likely have are the same every one else gets, you can try using a silver sensor if you're stuck with an indoor antenna. Move whatever antenna to the side of the house and window nearest to the transmitters as TVFool directs and see if that helps any. It'll be very much hit or miss otherwise. I suspect it'll be a poor performer VHF-wise come transition, but who knows what may or may not work then.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cgott42* /forum/post/14438093
> 
> 
> I just bought a Pinnacle Pro HD Stick (USB Tuner) (I read it was top rated for pulling in weak signals) in order to record the olympics (and later the NY Jets games) in High Def onto my laptop. The problem is that I'm not getting some of the stronger signals.
> 
> I've tested it in 2 locations: White Plains , NY (zip code 10604) and Chestnut Ridge, NY (10952).
> 
> And in the White Plains located of the major locals - I'm only getting Chan 5 & 9 (WNYW-DT and WWOR-DT - getting good signal (80%) on both)
> 
> and in Chestnut Ridge - getting a bunch of channels but not WCBS.
> 
> I've tried the included antenna and PF-7 antenna (also recommended) and gotten the same thing.
> 
> 
> Any ideas- to get WCBS-HD and WNBC-HD?



I tried one of these. If I didn't get the Blue Screen of Death with hex dumps on it, I was getting awful reception, EVEN on the UHF rooftop antenna I use to get HTDV on my Sony DVRs


----------



## cgott42




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *O2C* /forum/post/14446495
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that PF-7 is a poor antenna choice and I'm not sure who'd recommend it. It's UHF only and claims that it has an effective range of up to 15 miles. Some of your locals will be transitioning to the VHF range and those two locations are probably some 25 miles out.
> 
> 
> Generally speaking, an outdoor antenna ... Short of that, the advice I've got and others likely have are the same every one else gets, you can try using a silver sensor if you're stuck with an indoor antenna.



thanks I'll try the silver sensor -

is this it?
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Phili...oductDetail.do 


Also if it makes any difference - I'm using the antenna in a car (and laptop).


thanks,


----------



## cgott42

Are there any local B&M stores that carry the silver sensor? I can't seem to find one. I'd like to be able to buy it try it and if it doesn't help return it without having to pay for shipping both ways.


----------



## O2C

That CC model isn't the one I was referring to. The model is usually labeled as PHDTV1.


I feel I should also say that you'll find it recommended a lot here because in part as a very directional antenna, the silver sensor does a very good job eliminating multipath errors. People trying to tune within the city encounter that problem much more than that of a weak signal. I don't know what sort of situation you're in but I can't imagine trying to constantly re-aim the silver sensor while in a moving car. You'd probably be better off buying some sort of RV type antenna for car use and mounting it.


----------



## cgott42

actually it will be in a parked spot. Pretty much the same parked spot all of the time, would just like HDTV while I'm there.

So I don't think the repointing will be a problem as long as it's not super sensitive to exact positioning (ala satellite antennas).

But within a 5 feet should be the same spot.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cgott42* /forum/post/14451533
> 
> 
> Also if it makes any difference - I'm using the antenna in a car (and laptop).



Hey, I have a kit like that!


I use my Silver Sensor in the car. It's not stable and it's not going to be--there's no antenna that will compensate for the Doppler effect--but it does a pretty good job when I'm stopped. Even when moving, if I can see the tower or I'm otherwise pretty close, it's usually stable enough for me to get the captures I want for RabbitEars.


I'd be curious to find out how the Pinnacle stacks up to the DViCO FusionHDTV5 that I have.


- Trip


----------



## cgott42

aha

I see which one you're talking about.
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV1...8817650&sr=8-3 

Funny - I can't find anyone who sells that (B&M)


----------



## cgott42

FYI:

this is where I saw the PF-7 highly rated:
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...7-reviews.html


----------



## SnellKrell

The beauty of the Silver Sensor is that it's highly directional - and if you're talking about using it in a car - unless you park and find the antenna's sweet spot, fuhgettaboutit!


It's a great antenna, designed with the BBC in England, but no antenna is going to be perfect.


If you don't have line-of-sight to the transmitting antenna, more than likely, you will be dealing with multipath signals. And this is where the Silver Sensor shines - it can lock on reflected signals quite well.


Home Depot had it listed on its Web site, not sure of in store availability.


----------



## BVfan

I will be in NYC mid September. Staying just east of Central Park on 78th St. Will I be able to get OTA HD at that locataion or should I just not worry about bringing along my HD stick/attenna for my computer?


I looked on AntennaWeb.org and it did not even show a CBS affiliate that was HD OTA.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BVfan* /forum/post/14462367
> 
> 
> I will be in NYC mid September. Staying just east of Central Park on 78th St. Will I be able to get OTA HD at that locataion or should I just not worry about bringing along my HD stick/attenna for my computer?
> 
> 
> I looked on AntennaWeb.org and it did not even show a CBS affiliate that was HD OTA.



Ah, AntennaWeb does it again. Try a TVfool.com plot for the location instead. You will probably need to fiddle with the location a bit, to deal with the reflections. What do you have for an antenna?


As for CBS HD, attached is a screen cap I took of WCBS from Mystic, CT last month.


----------



## Skyeclad

Has anybody contacted the Broadcast Manager for an update? If not, I would like to if an e-mail address is available.


----------



## gauras

Hi Folks,

Here is the name of the broadcast manager.


The Empire State Building - Joe Maguire, Broadcast Manager


I cannot find his email address.


They screwed up something big time with the recent work on the antenna at the esb.

I used to be able to get channel 13.1 from central jersey using a cm4228.

Now I hardly get any signal.


Anyone know why they messed with the antennas? If it is to make ota available to more people they are making a big mistake, it has worsened.


I would appreciate if you could share any more information about this problem in this thread.


----------



## tenant13

I noticed the same thing: my channel 13 (in Jersey City) just vanished as of few weeks ago. I get all the networks even though CBS used to be impossible to receive. I would gladly trade all of them for PBS though...


----------



## gauras

These guys all the time keep messing up with the antennas.


Same thing happened with WHYY/Delaware (PBS from Philadelphia).


I used to get a good signal from them, and the same crap they decided to move from

channel 50 to 66 uhf and changed their antenna coverage. Now I don't get a blip.


Finally twiddled with my antenna and was glad to be able to pick up NY WNET, but alas

they had to mess it up again.


Now that the transition date is nearing , I don't understand why these people keep changing things, because come Feb 2009 anyway there are going to be moving to vhf 13 . Can't they wait?


----------



## Skyeclad

Antenna reception is way up for me tonight. I'm getting CBS at 90%.


----------



## OWENF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gauras* /forum/post/14472191
> 
> 
> These guys all the time keep messing up with the antennas.
> 
> 
> Same thing happened with WHYY/Delaware (PBS from Philadelphia).
> 
> 
> I used to get a good signal from them, and the same crap they decided to move from
> 
> channel 50 to 66 uhf and changed their antenna coverage. Now I don't get a blip.
> 
> 
> Finally twiddled with my antenna and was glad to be able to pick up NY WNET, but alas
> 
> they had to mess it up again.
> 
> 
> Now that the transition date is nearing , I don't understand why these people keep changing things, because come Feb 2009 anyway there are going to be moving to vhf 13 . Can't they wait?



WHYY ch. 12 philly switched from 55 to 50 uhf because of some special deal

with ? (Qualcom) or another wireless carrier that was awarded that freq.

If you search you will see what others have to say on this

They then had to lower power because of another station in/near Montclair,NJ. WHYY has not been on 66 uhf in the philly area.

Regards

Owenf


----------



## picaman

Very helpful thread for someone like me who knows very little about all this. I've read back a few months worth of posts and have learned a tremendous amount. I've cancelled the cable TV and I'm not looking back! : )


I have a Mac Mini with an Elgato EyeTV Hybrid tuner hooked up to an HD monitor. I live in Riverdale, in the Bronx, ~14 miles from the ESB. I bought and returned several rabbit-ears style antennas that were recommended online -- the RCA ANT525 seemed to work the best, but with inconsistent signal quality despite me constantly moving it. The indoor directional antennas I purchased at Best Buy etc. didn't work at all. I finally decided to try a DB2 from Antennas Direct. The telephone agent spent quite some time asking me questions and then recommended that I try the Clearstream 2. I put it indoors on an old mike stand by the window, and now have 100% signal quality and no less than 85% strength on each of the 24 channels I found using auto-detect. And I haven't had to move it once. Boy am I happy with that antenna. It may be overkill but having mucked around so much with other antennas, I don't care at this point.


Here are a few things I've learned from the thread (I think...); please correct me if I'm wrong:


-- The only channel I'd like to get that I'm not getting now is WNET 13.1, and they are broadcasting on low power until the transition. Evidently I should start getting it after that.


-- My Clearstream 2 antenna picks up UHF and "high VHF" channels, so there's a possibility that I won't get WABC after the transition with this antenna, because then they'll be broadcasting on low VHF.


-- After the transition, all the stations are going to ramp up their xmit power, so anything I'm getting now I'll get even better then, and perhaps I'll get even more channels.


One other question: is there a database online that lists the mhz the stations broadcast on? For example, WCBS is at 725.0. I ask because if you have this number you can manually add channels to the Elgato tuner list, and I'd like to monkey around with that.


Thanks in advance for your comments, suggestions, and advice for this newbie.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *picaman* /forum/post/14491812
> 
> 
> Here are a few things I've learned from the thread (I think...); please correct me if I'm wrong:
> 
> 
> -- The only channel I'd like to get that I'm not getting now is WNET 13.1, and they are broadcasting on low power until the transition. Evidently I should start getting it after that.



Correct.



> Quote:
> -- My Clearstream 2 antenna picks up UHF and "high VHF" channels, so there's a possibility that I won't get WABC after the transition with this antenna, because then they'll be broadcasting on low VHF.



Incorrect. WABC-DT will be on channel 7, which is the lowest channel that is still "upper VHF." Granted, you may still have trouble with it, but it won't be because it's on low-VHF.



> Quote:
> -- After the transition, all the stations are going to ramp up their xmit power, so anything I'm getting now I'll get even better then, and perhaps I'll get even more channels.



Not all of them will boost power. Some stations will increase power on the ESB, but not all of them. Some of the stations in New Jersey will, others won't. In New York, the big boost will probably come whenever Freedom Tower is finished and the stations move up there.



> Quote:
> One other question: is there a database online that lists the mhz the stations broadcast on? For example, WCBS is at 725.0. I ask because if you have this number you can manually add channels to the Elgato tuner list, and I'd like to monkey around with that.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your comments, suggestions, and advice for this newbie.


 http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/catvfreq.html 


Just use their physical channel (WCBS-DT is channel 56, for example) and that list will give you a frequency near the one they're using (if you have to add 1.75 MHz to get whatever the El Gato wants for WCBS-DT, then consistently add that to every one of those numbers).


- Trip


----------



## picaman

Thanks very much for the quick reply and the additional info. The link makes perfect sense.


----------



## StudioTech

Am I the only one that has noticed that WCBS isn't IDing their digital channel like they do their analog?


In other words, I've only seen "WCBS-TV New York" like we've seen forever, but never "WCBS-TV/DT New York" or "WCBS-TV WCBS-DT New York"


I remember the station at one point using "WCBS-TV New York DT 56" but even that's not correct per FCC guidelines.


----------



## seamus21514

I can't get WPIX on DT? Any reason?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seamus21514* /forum/post/14497451
> 
> 
> I can't get WPIX on DT? Any reason?




Ever since the new Combiner on the ESB was put into service, WPIX-DT, at least where I live, has had the lowest signal reading of all the stations including WNET-DT!


As of the other day, my reading for Channel 33 (WPIX -DT) is even lower.


Don't know what's going on.


----------



## O2C

FYI, no problem with WPIX here in Brooklyn. I'm no longer able to tune in WNET anymore though.


----------



## SnellKrell

Obviously, the new fill-in panel antenna on the S.E. corner of the ESB, below the 86th floor, is doing its job supplementing the Combiner's mast antenna for better reception in Queens and Brooklyn.


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14501303
> 
> 
> Obviously, the new fill-in panel antenna on the S.E. corner of the ESB, below the 86th floor, is doing its job supplementing the Combiner's mast antenna for better reception in Queens and Brooklyn.



I'm in Queens (Astoria) and get pretty much everything except WNET.


When you're talking about a "fill-in panel" in the southeast corner of the ESB, I'm looking over at the ESB now from my office in Manhattan and see a structure about two stories tall just below the observation platform on the southeast corner, positioned maybe 2-3 feet out from the wall. Is this the panel?


-CB


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tenant13* /forum/post/14471663
> 
> 
> I noticed the same thing: my channel 13 (in Jersey City) just vanished as of few weeks ago. I get all the networks even though CBS used to be impossible to receive. I would gladly trade all of them for PBS though...



From what I've heard, the new antenna being used for WNET transmits using circular polarization (CPOL) toward the center of Brooklyn in about a 90 degree arc. That would probably make it tough to receive from anywhere in NJ.


But viewers within that 90 degree arc (which should include parts of Queens and Staten Island) maybe be able to get good results with an antenna designed for CPOL reception made of two orthogonal dipoles in quadrature. I'm checking in with the guy who owns/runs Terrestrial Digital (aka "Antennas Direct") to see what they have that might suit this type of reception.


But if anyone in the area has such an antenna, try it out and see what you get from WNET.


-CB


----------



## SnellKrell

Sounds like it.


There's another panel array on the N.W. corner, also below the 86th floor that will only be used as a backup.


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14503210
> 
> 
> Sounds like it.
> 
> 
> There's another panel array on the N.W. corner, also below the 86th floor that will only be used as a backup.



That one seems even bigger - a huge white cylinder. I figured that was being used for something. So it's just a back-up for now?


BTW, I snapped a pic from my office window with my phone earlier this evning (attached). Pretty bad quality but you can see the cylindrical antenna on the middle left of the picture (NW corner) and sort of make out the other panel on the opposite corner. You can also see a few of the other antennas mounted to the side of the spire and on the radio tower itself, though they're a bit fuzzy.


Since 9/11 more and more antennas have been added to the ESB and it's starting to detract from its architectural elegance. Hopefully when the Freedom tower is finished, they can take a few of these antennas down.


-CB


----------



## ElVee

Can anyone recommend an antenna installer in the Bethpage area?


----------



## POWERFUL

Look up Variety TV. Great reviews from all here


----------



## Hunter Mackenzie

im in the Elizabeth NJ area and Channel 7 still has little to no signal......any one have an idea of when they will restore to full power i used to get mid 90's on a regular basis


----------



## SnellKrell

What disparity there appears to be since the Combiner was revamped.


Channel 7 was the last to fire up its transmitter from the new installation - they continued for a while on the station's backup facility from 4 Times Square (Conde Nast).


My reception, using a Silver Sensor on the floor of my living room, in the same position I had used to receive signals from the orginal Combiner, now, overall is getting stronger signals than ever.


I realize that each "signal meter" is different and you really can't compare one with another, but here are my current digital transmission readings off the ESB. As many know, Channel 5 was never a part of the Combiner project.


2 - 83

4 - 87

5 - 63

7 - 88

9 - 78

11 - 52

13 - 64


The biggest changes I see are 11 being so relatively weak, and for the first time, I'm receiving 13.


I have no line-of-sight and am dealing with a lot of multipath signals.


At least for me, the new Combiner has improved my reception tremendously.


Go figure!


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14508761
> 
> 
> I have no line-of-sight and am dealing with a lot of multipath signals.
> 
> 
> At least for me, the new Combiner has improved my reception tremendously.
> 
> 
> Go figure!



Congrats on getting 13. I just installed a new DISH receiver here yesterday and added the locals from antenna and it's reading 75% on Chanel 13 (lower than everything else, but still decent). Unfortunately I can't actually see the picture yet, as the DISH receiver is not authorized yet. It shows me the channels received and their respective strength but will not display them until the box is authorized.


I have a medium range Yagi style directional UHF antenna on my roof in Astoria, which is probably overkill for everything but 13 since I'm only 2 miles away. I had been using a standard VHF/UHF low gain outdoor antenna for the other set, split a couple of ways and this one has been spotty with 13 so I may experiment. It will actually be nice on February 18th when I don't have to worry about low band VHF reception any more (needed now for a couple of DVD/HDD recorders with analog tuners).


But you say you have multipath issues - have you played around with a variable attenuator at all? For me these have worked wonders at certain installations. It lowers both the main and reflected signal, of course, but it can lower the ghost signal to the point where it no longer interferes with the main. They sell for around $12 at Solid Signal.


-CB


----------



## fredd

hi picaman, welcome to the forum. I have the same setup you do with a mini & elgato -great combo for HT. Here are some of the channel frequencies the hybrid reports here in central jersey:


Ch# Station Frequency (UHF-MHZ)

2-1 WCBS 725

3-1 KYW-DT 545

4-1,2,3 WNBC 557

5-1 ,2 WNYW 653 (-2-MY9 SIMULCAST)

6-1,2,3 WPVI 773

7-1,2,3 WABC 659

9-1,2 WWOR 617 (-2-FOX SIMULCAST)

10-1,2,3 WCAU 791

11-1,2 CW11 587

17-1,2 WPHL 713

25-1,2 WNYE 533

29-1 WTFX 641

31-1,2,3,4ION 569

35-1 WYBE 593

52-1,2,3,4WNJT 647

57-1 WPSG 581


PLUS A HOST OF OTHER FOREIGN LANGUAGE STATIONS


Unfortunately channels 2,5, & 7 dissappeared once the antenna work started at the ESB.

I think the separation is 6MHz between stations


----------



## raylock




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *boylan13* /forum/post/14509792
> 
> 
> It will actually be nice on February 18th when I don't have to worry about VHF reception any more (needed now for a couple of DVD/HDD recorders with analog tuners).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -CB



OK, here is a question that probably already been discussed, but I don't want to read through 7000+ posts







I understand the analog stations are going away next February, but do we know that none of the stations will be moving their digital signals down to the old vhf frequencies?


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT will move to 7


WPIX-DT will move to 11


WNET-DT will move to 13


----------



## tamahome02000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raylock* /forum/post/14510754
> 
> 
> OK, here is a question that probably already been discussed, but I don't want to read through 7000+ posts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand the analog stations are going away next February, but do we know that none of the stations will be moving their digital signals down to the old vhf frequencies?



7, 11, & 13 according to antennaweb. Also njn will keep 8.


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/14508104
> 
> 
> Look up Variety TV. Great reviews from all here



Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow.


I currently have a VHF/UHF antenna on my chimney. I'm not not sure which type - from afar it looks similiar to a CM3271.


At my previous home, in Jersey City, I had a CM4228 on a rotator, which I loved. I brought the whole setup with me to Bethpage.


Now I'm trying to decide if I should use my current VHF/UHF antenna and just mount that with the rotator, or should I use the CM4228 UHF antenna.


Are all or most HD broadcasts UHF?


Is there any reason to still have a VHF?


I'm one of those guys that likes to get as many channels as I can.


----------



## POWERFUL

Red back a few posts. There are some channels going back to VHF. Use both antennas if you can.


----------



## raj2001

I am in Wantage, NJ (Sussex county) and these are my readings:


WCBS-DT - 54

WNBC-DT - 77

WNYW-DT - no lock

WABC-DT - 78

WWOR-DT - 62

WPIX-DT - 77

WNET-DT - nada



Lots of other signals, including WNYE-DT, that I don't care too much about.


It is really rough out here as we are ~48 miles from the ESB and blocked by hills.


Curiously enough I can get philly if I aim the antenna there. So I might end up putting up a 2nd antenna for philly.


I'm using a CM4228 and an antennacraft preamp. I might ditch the antennacraft and get a CM7777. The receiver is my Series3 TiVo.


----------



## raylock




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/14510762
> 
> 
> 7, 11, & 13 according to antennaweb. Also njn will keep 8.



Thanks to both. Guess I will have to get a new antenna. Currently only have uhf.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raylock* /forum/post/14512955
> 
> 
> Thanks to both. Guess I will have to get a new antenna. Currently only have uhf.



Don't jump the gun just yet. I can get 7,9,11,& 13 pretty clear using a UHF antenna, so I am pretty sure that I'll be able to get them when they go digital


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raylock* /forum/post/14512955
> 
> 
> Thanks to both. Guess I will have to get a new antenna. Currently only have uhf.



It depends.


Unless you're interested in TV DX, just wait until Feb 17 2009 before you decide whether you need another antenna.


----------



## raylock




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14521269
> 
> 
> It depends.
> 
> 
> Unless you're interested in TV DX, just wait until Feb 17 2009 before you decide whether you need another antenna.



Good advice. Thanks all


Ray


----------



## Straphanger

WNYW has degraded recently and has become unstable on my HTPC setup. Maybe they're working on the antenna for them now?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Straphanger* /forum/post/14522153
> 
> 
> WNYW has degraded recently and has become unstable on my HTPC setup. Maybe they're working on the antenna for them now?



WNYW is pretty much nonexistant where I am. I thought it was just me, but I'm glad it's not.


----------



## raj2001

Looks like they did something to WCBS-DT last night.


Around midnight the signal dropped to an unusable level, and this morning it was stronger than ever, about as strong as WABC-DT and WNBC-DT (which are my strongest).


----------



## dagger666

my TR-40 can puck up digital channel 13 for the first time but it's single is weak and hard to lock in, am 14 miles form NY City. How come CBS isn't using any of it's sub channels and 7,4 only using 3 out of 4.


----------



## SnellKrell

Previously, Channel 2 would use a sub-channel for expanded coverage of events such as the Masters, and four years ago, I can remember the station using 2.2 for additional feeds from the Republican Convention.


It seems as if CBS executives have chosen, at this point, to devote all the bandwidth to its main HD channels across the country.


Come NFL season, you'll read a lot of postings about the superior quality of CBS's HD picture vs. NBC's with that network's stations use of two sub-channels - at least, this has been the case for previous years.


----------



## steve-avs

I'm located in Carmel, Putnam County, about 50 miles north of Manhattan. As best I can tell I have a line of sight view to the Empire State Building antenna. Signal levels vary somewhat due to atmospheric conditions. Daytime generally brings the weakest signals which strengthen as the the sun sets. I think I get a good read on the relative power levels between the stations which maybe some readers will find helpful.


WCBS - 2.1 is now very weak, generally not receivable in daytime hours for me and not reliable in the evening and overnight hours either. I hope this changes before the US Open, NFL and new season shows begin. WCBS had a strong reliable signal until the recent work on the ESB antenna, but it's been the pits lately.


WNBC - 4.1,4.2,4.4 is putting out a decent signal that is reasonably reliable. Occasional dropouts happen more in the daytime than the evening. The Olympics were watchable and often quite good, but I hope they are able to boost the signal to WNYW levels before the transition. WNBC wasn't available before late May at my distance, so I'm grateful I didn't have to wait until 2/09 to receive it.


WNYW - 5.1,5.2 is the only station putting out a strong signal that I expect won't change after the transition. If you have trouble with this station, you'll probably have to play with positioning your antenna.


WABC - 7.1,7.2,7.3 used to be my most reliable signal with a power level matching WNYW. That is no longer the case and the loss coincided perfectly with the day they switched to the ESB as was reported a few weeks back in this forum. Today WABC is receivable but suffers from dropouts and as always is worse in the daytime. Its signal is now weaker than WNBC.


WWOR - 9.1,9.2 hasn't changed much with the move to the ESB. It was never a strong signal and at times will suffer from dropouts. It needs a boost in power to be classified as reliable, though I can usually count on receiving it's signal.


WPIX - 11.1,11.2 is somewhat better after the recent changes though it improved somewhat before the move to the ESB. I'm not sure, but think it's slightly worse after the move to the ESB, though it's much better than it was for the past few years. I think they had other equipment upgrades before the ESB antenna move. Dropouts are still present, but less than they used to be, but it still needs more power to be classified as reliable.


WNET - 13.1 + ??? I have never seen.


WNYE - 25.1,25.2 is second in signal level to WNYW and I would call reliable. Not much to watch here unfortunately and 25.2 still hasn't been able to eliminate the noise on the traffic cams kind of making it a useless signal.


WPAX (?) - 31.1,31.2,31.3,31.4 has signal levels better than WABC, though I haven't noticed much change to the ESB, if they're on it. In sampling the channel it sometimes seems to have dropouts due to overcompression, rather than a weak signal, but I don't spend any time on this channel to really judge how reliable it is.


41.1, 47.1 seem to have better signal levels compared to many of the big boys. I don't spend any time with these either, but they seem to be reliable.


WFUT 68.1 generally doesn't appear to have any signal, but I have received them in the past.


Ranking the channels from highest to lowest signal level:

very good - 5.1,5.2

good - 25.1,25.2

good - 41.1

good - 47.1

fair - 4.1,4.2,4.4

fair - 31.1,31.2,31.3,31.4

fair - 11.1,11.2

fair - 9.1,9.2

poor - 7.1,7.2,7.3

very poor - 2.1

bad - 68.1

bad - 13.1


What bugs me the most is the lack of information coming from the stations. At a time when they are pushing the DTV transition and trying to inform the public about the availability of converter boxes, they should also be letting the public know about the quality of their signals. I'm sure some folks have been terribly disappointed with their new converter boxes and it's probably driven some to satellite and cable solutions, when in reality it's just the lousy state of some of the transmissions that is causing poor results.


Every station should have an information page on their websites keeping the public informed as to the status of their transmissions and their plans, if any, to improve or degrade the signals in the near future through the transition. Anyway, that's how I feel about it and I wanted to get it off my chest.


----------



## raj2001

I'll trade you WFUT for WNYW.










WCBS got stronger last night for me but WNYW is still very low. I may play with positioning the antenna this weekend, but I shouldn't have to unless they're not broadcasting from ESB right now.


----------



## Skyeclad

Steve,


Great recap of the recent broadcast signal performance. Up to tonight, I agree with everying that you wrote. I'm about 50 miles from ESB in Fairfield County, CT. Unfortunately tonight the signal was as bad as I've seen it since the work began. Hopefully this is just a one-time issue due to more work being done.


I definitely agree though, more information from the ESB broadcast management would be nice given the disruptions. It's hard to believe that a modern broadcast medium not providing any info regarding what amounts to dead air for many people.


I know that someone posted the name of the broadcast manager but not the e-mail but I think we should contact them and let them know we're interested in more info and that service has suffered since the changes were made.


----------



## boylan13

Nice work Steve. I'll give you the report from a little closer to the action in Astoria, Queens about 2.5 miles line of sight from the ESB with roof access. The incentive was my wife shaming me into getting WNET-DT (Channel 13). "You're editor of a home theater publication and you can't even get PBS-Kids or Channel 13 for our poor suffering children?" Well, it didn't go exactly like that, but that was the gist.


So I climbed up on the roof tonight, replaced a flimsy old Radio Shack UHF/VHF antenna with Antenna Direct's brand new ClearStream 2 (C2) antenna, which is a small (10"x20" overall) sleek looking dual loop design, optimized for Upper VHF and UHF broadcasts. I'll attach a PDF scan of the fact sheet for anyone interested. It's rated for "up to 50 miles." I don't know about that but it does work extremely well at 2.5 miles! I did a local channel scan on my DISH receiver and I'm getting these signal strength numbers at 1:30 this AM:


Channel (call sign) - signal strength


2.1 (WCBS-HD) - 100

4.1 (WNBC-DT) - 91

4.2 (WX-Plus) - 91

4.4 (WNBC4.4) - 91

5-1 (WNYW-DT) - 96

5-2 (WWOR-DT) - 96

7-1 (WABC-HD) - 100

7-2 (WABC+) - 100

7-3 (WABCnow) - 100

9-1 (WWOR-DT) - 97

9-2 (WNYW DT) - 97

11-1 (TheCW11) - 100

11-2 (LATV) - 100

13-1 (WNET-HD) - 87

13-2 (WNET-SD aka "PBS Kids") - 87

13-3 (WNET-13.3 aka "V-me") - 87

25-1 (WNYE1) - 73

25-2 (WNYE2 aka "The Traffic Cam Channel") - 73

31-1 (ION) - 83

31-2 (qubo) - 83

31-3 (IonLife) - 83

31-4 (Worship) - 83

41-1 (WXTV DT) - 100

69-1 (WFUT-DT) - 75


So channel 13 is back (at least for us). Order has been restored in the galaxy.


Although some might say I don't *need* the local channels since I have DISH, I like to have them so I can make use of the third tuner in my ViP722 DVR, and it's always nice to have local access in case of a big storm (or a small asteroid) throwing out satellite reception. _(edit - also, DISH does not currently offer PBS in HD (WNET), so that's the one I really needed)._


Good luck to all!


-CB

 

ClearStreamC2Page1-opt.pdf 229.9736328125k . file

 

ClearStreamC2Page2-opt.pdf 189.28125k . file


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/14539358
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> 
> Great recap of the recent broadcast signal performance. Up to tonight, I agree with everying that you wrote. I'm about 50 miles from ESB in Fairfield County, CT. Unfortunately tonight the signal was as bad as I've seen it since the work began. Hopefully this is just a one-time issue due to more work being done.



Yes, I noticed the signals completely disappear from 2, 7, 9, & 11 at times after 9:30 pm last night. I've never seen that during prime time before, but I thought, good, something is being done and maybe with great urgency. Later, around 11:30 pm, the signals seemed stronger, but having just tested the signals at around 10:30 am, nothing seems to have really changed. Though it's still good to see work being done, so we can keep hoping.



> Quote:
> I definitely agree though, more information from the ESB broadcast management would be nice given the disruptions. It's hard to believe that a modern broadcast medium not providing any info regarding what amounts to dead air for many people.



Yea, it's almost unbelievable, but maybe they don't want the advertisers to know.



> Quote:
> I know that someone posted the name of the broadcast manager but not the e-mail but I think we should contact them and let them know we're interested in more info and that service has suffered since the changes were made.



I'm all for that. I did send some remarks to WCBS yesterday. They have a "technical ..." something category listed on their "contact us" page. So far no response.


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14538138
> 
> 
> I'll trade you WFUT for WNYW.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WCBS got stronger last night for me but WNYW is still very low. I may play with positioning the antenna this weekend, but I shouldn't have to unless they're not broadcasting from ESB right now.



If it's really play, then yes, you should be able to get WNYW. Keep in mind though the poor state of many of the other signals, so not to go too crazy with finding the ideal spot. Since your dealing with hills, so probably bounced signals, and with the switch to VHF-HI for 7, 11 and 13 in 2/09, you're probably due for another play session next year.


Have fun!


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *boylan13* /forum/post/14540048
> 
> 
> Nice work Steve. I'll give you the report from a little closer to the action in Astoria, Queens about 2.5 miles line of sight from the ESB with roof access. The incentive was my wife shaming me into getting WNET-DT (Channel 13). "You're editor of a home theater publication and you can't even get PBS-Kids or Channel 13 for our poor suffering children?" Well, it didn't go exactly like that, but that was the gist.



Well, kudos to the wife, but 2.5 miles with LOS is like giving Michael Phelps a pool length lead at the start of a race. It's a little too easy. I do suspect that many city residents are having problems with the current signal levels. The issues are different than for those of us at greater distances, but multipath problems are probably causing a fair share of dropouts at these reduced signal levels, especially for those using indoor antennas and/or without a LOS view of the ESB. You're very fortunate signal wise, but its probably not terribly representative for the large majority of tuners.


----------



## Skyeclad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/14542386
> 
> 
> Yes, I noticed the signals completely disappear from 2, 7, 9, & 11 at times after 9:30 pm last night. I've never seen that during prime time before, but I thought, good, something is being done and maybe with great urgency. Later, around 11:30 pm, the signals seemed stronger, but having just tested the signals at around 10:30 am, nothing seems to have really changed. Though it's still good to see work being done, so we can keep hoping.
> 
> 
> Yea, it's almost unbelievable, but maybe they don't want the advertisers to know.
> 
> 
> I'm all for that. I did send some remarks to WCBS yesterday. They have a "technical ..." something category listed on their "contact us" page. So far no response.



I checked about 9pm last night and I could tell things were bad when I couldn't get a signal for 2,4, or 7 without adjusting my rotator. After that I got a marginal signal but what really struck me was that 5 was marginal which is highly unusual. Like you, I used to have the best signal from 5 and 7. Now only Fox rates a full 100(except for last night).


Luckily I get WTNH-DT out the back of my CM4228 at 100 which is also an ABC affiliate. I hope they return to reliable signal levels before the Fall TV season starts.


As for ESB management, I might try calling them to see if I can get someone in their broadcast mgt. dept. Who knows, I might get lucky.


----------



## jchtrout1

I,m up in Southbury Ct.

I have a 150' tower, with individual antennas cut to frquency.

I too had great relaible signal from NYC with the exception of 11, 13 and 4.

After the recnt work on the ESB, I have had much difficulty with all of the digital signals. I dont seem to see a difference between day or night, just a very low signal on my scope and recievers.

Channel 2 CBS, used to be my strongest channel, followed by 7, then 5 and 9 in both analog and digital, respectively.

After firing off mass emails and phone calls to each station, I did recieve an email from Channel 2 Engineering attesting to the new antenna placement having phase problems which he hoped would be worked out in the next week.


As far as the relative reduction in analog signal strength, I,m not sure why that has happened, but it is and has been measurable by my daily recordable log over the last 12 years and it is definitely not what it once was. My thought is that they have reduced output power during the antenna construction phase or are just not that concerned with their analog signal.

Good report from Carmel and lower FC. Thanks,

Jeff


----------



## MickleSt.

Boy, am I glad I found this place!

I thought my new HDTV and/or antenna were dying on me! I was getting pretty good reception up until... well, just in time for the Olympics, which I was looking forward to,naturally.


Still getting WNYW, as others have noted, and Ch.25-1, and a couple of the Spanish language stations. Otherwise, the major networks suddenly pooped out on me!


I'm not a major technophile, so some of what's being tossed around here is flying right over my head, but at least now I understand that my equipment is still probably OK and I'll just have to wait it out and try another scan from time to time.


----------



## MickleSt.

And oh yes, I contacted WCBS, WABC and WNBC to try to find out what had happened to their previously very good signals. That was a week ago, and so far no response. I also sent an email to Richard Huff of the Daily News, but he is on vacation. It would be nice to have broadcasters/the ESB actually say something to the people they are supposed to be serving.


----------



## gauras

What pisses me off is why mess with a good working system when you are making it

worse by trying to improve it?


I wonder what the goal is with all this antenna work at the ESB. Could't they wait for

the cutover next year or maybe a month or two before cutover, that is if the antenna improvements are really necessary?.


All that was needed before the screwup was an increase in power for WNET 13 and a lot of people would have been happy.


The stations don't give a damn about ota viewers because they don't get any money out of us. They make all their money by programming rights with the cable and satellite feeds.


So unless we can get hold of the advertisers on the stations and complain to them nothing is going to happen.


Same thing happened to WHYY. They gave up channel 55 to qualcomm for some good sum of money, moved to channel 50, reduced the power, screwed up the antenna coverage pattern, and any amount of calls to them fell on deaf ears.


----------



## SnellKrell

No, it's not that simple!


This new Combiner will be the 2/18/09 home for WCBS, WNBC and WWOR - all UHF channels.


A second combiner, Hi-VHF will be operational for WABC, WPIX and WNET - those stations on 2/18/09 will migrate.


Both Combiners will have to have backups - the new one that is currently being used now has it in place.


I'm one of the lucky ones where the new Combiner has helped tremendously, with the exception of now a weak signal for WPIX-DT (33).


If things go well, rarely will people say something.


But, it's good that the ESB and stations know of the very disappointing reception too many people are now receiving.


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/14542415
> 
> 
> Well, kudos to the wife, but 2.5 miles with LOS is like giving Michael Phelps a pool length lead at the start of a race. It's a little too easy. I do suspect that many city residents are having problems with the current signal levels. The issues are different than for those of us at greater distances, but multipath problems are probably causing a fair share of dropouts at these reduced signal levels, especially for those using indoor antennas and/or without a LOS view of the ESB. You're very fortunate signal wise, but its probably not terribly representative for the large majority of tuners.



Well there are over 10 million people living within 10-12 miles of the Empire State Building, including thousands of home owners in parts of Long Island, Queens, Staten Island, Brooklyn, the Bronx, New Jersey, Manhattan, etc.


And some renters and condo/coop owners can get access to their roofs if they only ask. Not all coop and condo boards (or landlords) will allow it, but it never hurts to ask. I've had decent luck with this doing antenna installations for friends in the city and a couple in the 'burbs. Some buildings I've been to in Queens were actually pre-wired with antennas 20-30 years ago, and occasionally these jacks are still available in the apartments (though many have been removed or replaced with cable TV feeds).


The purpose of my sharing these results is to show what is possible if you're closer to the broadcast tower and have good equipment and access to your home's or building's roof. The previous VHF/UHF antenna I had was in the exact same location and was still not able to lock to WNET due to the station's low broadcast signal strength. I guess that antenna was no Michael Phelps.







But the C2 works great.


In terms of getting reception inside an apartment with no roof access, I've had pretty good luck with various unpowered indoor antennas, like the Terk HDTVi and even the Picture Frame antenna from antennas direct. In several cases, an inexpensive variable attenuator like this one at Solid Signal helps to eliminate multi-path distortion, bringing a channel from pixelated to perfect by lowering the reflected image signal strength enough that it doesn't interfere with the main signal. Of course, it lowers the main signal strength too, but usually in the city, this is strong enough that you have some wiggle room. You can dial in the level of attenuation for the best results.


My two cents...


-CB


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MickleSt.* /forum/post/14545371
> 
> 
> Boy, am I glad I found this place!
> 
> I thought my new HDTV and/or antenna were dying on me! I was getting pretty good reception up until... well, just in time for the Olympics, which I was looking forward to,naturally.



What antenna are you using and do you have access to your roof or at least a window which faces South? Washington Heights isn't far from the ESB so with good equipment and proper placement, you might be able to get good reception today.


-CB


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/14542398
> 
> 
> If it's really play, then yes, you should be able to get WNYW. Keep in mind though the poor state of many of the other signals, so not to go too crazy with finding the ideal spot. Since your dealing with hills, so probably bounced signals, and with the switch to VHF-HI for 7, 11 and 13 in 2/09, you're probably due for another play session next year.
> 
> 
> Have fun!



Well unlike most others here in town, I have an actual antenna tower which is 86 feet at the top. The tallest antenna on it tops out at 102ft. The TV antenna is at 70 feet.


So I think that if I don't get good results when lower, I may just put the antenna up higher.


I am also considering ganging another 4228. I better go hurry up and order it before CM goes and changes it up.


----------



## raj2001

Here are my latest readings. I bypassed a 4way splitter I had, which I was testing to the bedroom TV and home office.


Not going to include subchannels as they'll have the same strength.


2-1 WCBS 81

4-1 WNBC 87

5-1 WNYW hovering between 0 and 30. Signal is there, just not getting a lock.

7-1 WABC 82

9-1 WWOR 79

11-1 WPIX 83

13-1 WNET - nada. zero, zip, zilch.

25-1 WNYE 71

29-1 WFME 54 (They're in west milford, antenna is not aimed at them)

31-1 WPXN 71

41-1 WXTV 74

47-1 WNJU 0 (Again, aimed away from them, they're a Spanish broadcaster so I don't really need them)

48-1 WRNN 63 - Getting this one off one of the side lobes since RNN is north, not southeast like NYC

50-1 WNJN 77 (NJN in Montclair @ MSU, about 30ish miles away)

54-1 WTBY 75 - same situation as WRNN

58-1 WNJB 76 - Channel 8 physical, CM4228's screen acts as a VHF antenna I guess

63-1 WMBC 90 (The analog signal on this one is a real pest. It is roughly 15 miles away in Newton NJ and overloads my preamp, so aiming one of the nulls at them helps a lot)

68-1 WFUT 54


This is a CM4228 with a "permacolor" antennacraft preamp. I have a CM7777 to replace it as it has a lower noise figure. Climbing the tower this weekend.


The receiver is my series 3 TiVo.


My 2nd CM4228 is going to be ordered early next week as well. Want to make sure I get it before CM changes it.


----------



## ElVee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElVee* /forum/post/14510900
> 
> 
> Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow.
> 
> 
> I currently have a VHF/UHF antenna on my chimney. I'm not not sure which type - from afar it looks similiar to a CM3271.
> 
> 
> At my previous home, in Jersey City, I had a CM4228 on a rotator, which I loved. I brought the whole setup with me to Bethpage.
> 
> 
> Now I'm trying to decide if I should use my current VHF/UHF antenna and just mount that with the rotator, or should I use the CM4228 UHF antenna.
> 
> 
> Are all or most HD broadcasts UHF?
> 
> 
> Is there any reason to still have a VHF?
> 
> 
> I'm one of those guys that likes to get as many channels as I can.



Variety TV of Massapequa came by yesterday and did a great job.


For now, I'm keeping my old Channel Master VHF/UHF combo. They cut in my CM rotor and I'm good to go.


If I find I want to reach a greater distance, I'll get the CM 3671 and they'll come back and install that for me too.


Great job Variety TV!


P.S. Still have a CM 4228 laying around unused


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14553773
> 
> 
> Well unlike most others here in town, I have an actual antenna tower which is 86 feet at the top. The tallest antenna on it tops out at 102ft. The TV antenna is at 70 feet.
> 
> 
> So I think that if I don't get good results when lower, I may just put the antenna up higher.
> 
> 
> I am also considering ganging another 4228. I better go hurry up and order it before CM goes and changes it up.



Wow! Now that's a tower. Okay, something must be amiss, so I searched for WNYW's FCC application and found it at:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=22206 


As you know, WNYW doesn't use the omnidirectional UHF antenna on the ESB, but their own dedicated antenna. In that application you'll find a link to a coverage map and a polar plot that shows their antenna to be highly directional and indicates your area probably isn't served very well. Buried in one of the other attachments is a different polar plot which seems to show many null areas. I don't have the expertise to read much more into it, but considering your incredible setup, I think it's safe to say that the weak signal your getting from WNYW is reality and there is nothing wrong with your setup.


In a later application, WNYW proposes to move the antenna further up on the ESB tower, but even if approved they're not expecting to proceed with that until 2010-2011, so it will be awhile. When done, the predicted coverage will include Sussex.


I'm amazed that your receiving WNJB on channel 8 frequency. I'm pretty sure you're way out of there coverage area, so that tower is giving you opportunities I wish I had. You might just be able to pull it off with WNYW and now we know what a challange and accomplishment that will be.


Please, keep us informed.


----------



## SnellKrell

When WNYW-DT increased its power, it had to change to a directional pattern becuase of Channel 44 in Atlantic City.


That's the reason for its null(s).


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *boylan13* /forum/post/14540048
> 
> 
> Antenna Direct's brand new ClearStream 2 (C2) antenna, which is a small (10"x20" overall) sleek looking dual loop design, optimized for Upper VHF and UHF broadcasts.



Thank you for the report on this antenna. However, how does it look for analog 7, 11 & 13? I would also be curious to see how it performs on 2, 4 & 5 (for the few markets that will be using 2-6 next year).


I have yet to seen Antennas Direct provide any VHF gain plots for this new series, but I would be interested to find out what kind of performance they actually have there. Judging by its UHF dimensions, probably -10 to -3dB for 7-13. I would not imagine it has any performance for 2-6 (perhaps under -20dB). So much for smooth gain across "the entire DTV spectrum."


I am of the opinion that at least Low-VHF should be scrapped as re TV, but despite that most major markets won't be using it, it's still going to be around. Upper VHF (7-13) performance will be very important in most markets, post-transition.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/14556649
> 
> 
> Wow! Now that's a tower. Okay, something must be amiss, so I searched for WNYW's FCC application and found it at:
> 
> http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=22206
> 
> 
> As you know, WNYW doesn't use the omnidirectional UHF antenna on the ESB, but their own dedicated antenna. In that application you'll find a link to a coverage map and a polar plot that shows their antenna to be highly directional and indicates your area probably isn't served very well. Buried in one of the other attachments is a different polar plot which seems to show many null areas. I don't have the expertise to read much more into it, but considering your incredible setup, I think it's safe to say that the weak signal your getting from WNYW is reality and there is nothing wrong with your setup.
> 
> 
> In a later application, WNYW proposes to move the antenna further up on the ESB tower, but even if approved they're not expecting to proceed with that until 2010-2011, so it will be awhile. When done, the predicted coverage will include Sussex.
> 
> 
> I'm amazed that your receiving WNJB on channel 8 frequency. I'm pretty sure you're way out of there coverage area, so that tower is giving you opportunities I wish I had. You might just be able to pull it off with WNYW and now we know what a challange and accomplishment that will be.
> 
> 
> Please, keep us informed.



The irony of it all is that I work for a news corporation subsidiary.










Anyway tomorrow is the tower climb so let's see what I can get.


WNJB is actually easier than the rest. The problem with the rest is hills. Up here in Sussex county it's hills upon hills. The vernon valley is a giant dead spot but up in Wantage it's still doable.


There is actually a clearer shot to philly than there is to NYC.


----------



## seamus21514

A few days ago, I picked up very very clear analog signals of WPHL, WTXF, WPSG, and WFMZ from Philadelphia, on my rabbit ears. It was very strange, but cool, did anyone have this experience in Staten Island?


----------



## njman

I am at certral NJ. I can get all of major networks except WCBS-DT and WABC-DT. Checked anatennaweb.org, both WCBS-DT and WABC-DT have the same distance and direction as WPIX-DT. I can get very good signal from WPIX-DT.


Does anyone know what the problem is?


thanks.


----------



## cgott42

thanks guys.

I bought the PHDTV1 and it helped me to get CBS-HD on my Pinnacle Ultimate USB stick tuner.

Now the question is how to also get VHF (as somethings I don't want to tape in HD (kids stuff) as it takes up too much room.

and also to pickup stations that I can't get reception for in HD.

Any ideas?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seamus21514* /forum/post/14559321
> 
> 
> A few days ago, I picked up very very clear analog signals of WPHL, WTXF, WPSG, and WFMZ from Philadelphia, on my rabbit ears. It was very strange, but cool, did anyone have this experience in Staten Island?



Probably tropo caused by temperature inversion.


It happens from time to time.


There were a couple days when I was getting every station in phila clear as a bell, analog and digital, for all of primetime. After about 3 days it went back to normal.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *njman* /forum/post/14559840
> 
> 
> I am at certral NJ. I can get all of major networks except WCBS-DT and WABC-DT. Checked anatennaweb.org, both WCBS-DT and WABC-DT have the same distance and direction as WPIX-DT. I can get very good signal from WPIX-DT.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what the problem is?
> 
> 
> thanks.



I'm in the Asbury Park area, about 35 miles south of the Empire State Building. I get CBS and ABC just fine. In fact, as of a few days ago, I'm now getting all of the VHF station's digital counterparts just fine, with the exception of WNET. Where in central NJ are you?


----------



## njman

i am at old bridge, 08857.


according to antennaweb.org, the distance is 33 mile.


----------



## n2ubp

Tropo from major storms, like hurricanes, does remarkable things to propagation. Start swinging your beams around and look for distant (DX) stations from hundreds, perhaps thousands of miles away.


Steve


----------



## raj2001

I put up the CM7777 to replace the 30db antennacraft.


I actually lost WNYE-DT. WCBS-DT is more stable now though.


I can definitely see a 2 gang 4228 in my future.


Still no luck with WNYW.


Everything else is unchanged.


----------



## raj2001

I put my antennacraft in series with the CM7777, cranked down the gain, and whoa... pulled in WNYW-DT quite easily, even on the TiVo S3.


But it's dropping out pretty often. With the 2nd 4228 in the mix I should be good to go, with just ONE preamp.


I may put the 4228 stack up higher, probably midway up the mast. I can't put it all the way up top as I have a UHF ham radio antenna all the way up top and I don't want it coupling.


I'm thinking I may end up homebrewing a lower noise preamp than what I have, or going with some lower loss cable.


In winter with the leaves gone everything will probably come in xtal clear, but at this point it's not just getting the channels, it's the challenge.










By the way I think 50% of my problems have to do with WMBC analog, which is probably overloading the living daylights out of my preamp(s) and desensing them really bad.


I'm also interested to hear if anyone in the area has tried OTA for the NYC channels. I've seen some TV antennas up, but those were probably there since there were only dirt roads in this town and no cable. I think pretty much everyone has given up and gone cable, except maybe those up on the hills.


----------



## njman

though it is still weak but I can watch it without any dropping off. WCBS-DT still the weakest station, don't know why.


----------



## raj2001

WNYW is consistent on my TV (Samsung 56"DLP) but nada on TiVo.


----------



## Skyeclad

CBS is marginal today but locked in, NBC is dropping out frequently. WNYW is fine at 80%+.


Reception for the various stations are fluctuating by the day and sometimes hour. I can only guess that their marginal signals are easily attenuated by the weather.







How much longer is this going to take to resolve itself?


----------



## POWERFUL

At least for me WNYW was fine. I recorded Prison Break without any breakups.


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14557309
> 
> 
> Thank you for the report on this antenna. However, how does it look for analog 7, 11 & 13? I would also be curious to see how it performs on 2, 4 & 5 (for the few markets that will be using 2-6 next year).



I can't find specs on that and my current use is with a DISH Network receiver that only looks for HD locals (it has only an ATSC tuner, no NTSC), so there is nothing to gauge signal strength on the frequencies that are not in use yet for digital broadcasts.


But let me plug it into a Sony HD DVR (which has both SD and HD tuners) and see how it looks.


OK, I did that and unfortunately the Sony doesn't have an analog signal strength meter. But visually the analog channels 7-13 look OK with some mild ghosting due to multi-path. 2-5 are pretty distorted. I hadn't heard about low VHF being used for any digital TV broadcasts, but if that's the case in your area, then the C2 is probably not the best fit. For UHF and upper VHF, it should work fine, range and terrain permitting.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/14570455
> 
> 
> At least for me WNYW was fine. I recorded Prison Break without any breakups.



Out East (Long Island) you should be fine, but up here in Northwest NJ we're pretty much SOL.


Well at least they simulcast on WWOR-DT so even if cable goes out I should have a backup.


I put back the Antennacraft preamp and I could get everything except WWOR and WNYE again. Realigned the antenna and now no dropouts on anything, but still no WNYE.


Still going to try the 2 gang 4228. In fall when the leaves are gone I may also see some improvement.


----------



## svec7186

i live in the bronx near the hudson river. we lost cbs, pbs and most of the higher channels several weeks ago. 11 is weak. several months ago i was getting about 45 channels including all sub channels until the antenna broadcast change issue.


thanks


----------



## reddice

I got my first HDTV in July. I have Dish Network and upgraded to a 612ViP receiver. I was all excited about being able to record off three tuners. Two satellite and one over the air until I realized how bad the over the air reception was.


To get to the point I ended up hooking up my antenna to my TV and using its tuner. I tried the Terk Indoor antenna and I am currently using the Radio Shack UFO antenna and at best I can get the New York stations at about 50 to 70 signal strength yet and this boggles my mind and peeves me off is that I can get that waste of a space religious station WFME which is the most furthest way a full 4 to 5 green bars with no break up and I peaked it at about 90 signal strength yet New York stations which I am only about 4 miles from I get a yellow 3 bar signal strength to 4 bars at best and they drop out if I just breath on the antenna.


Although I am able to get 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 25 the reception varies from 3 to 4 bars to drop outs. 29 waste and 47 I can get 4 to 5 bars and they are both over 15 miles away. I never once got a New York station at 5 bars, ever. By the way I am near the downtown Brooklyn area around Borough Park. I should not need no roof antenna since I live in the city and not outside the city.


----------



## raj2001

Actually since you live in the city, you may need a directional antenna to counter the effect of multipath caused by all the tall buildings, which is especially a problem with digital television.


You don't need a very high gain antenna, just a directional one.


One of my friends who works for ABC TV recently got a digital TV and put an indoor antenna on it, but couldn't get all the channels because of all the multipath. He lives in Manhattan.


Speaking of 47, WNJU-DT is out for me as we have local repeater W36AZ (repeater for NJN) on channel 36 here in Sussex. But I don't really watch Spanish language programming anyway so no big loss for me. W36AZ is moving to another channel on 02/17/09 when it goes digital though.


----------



## reddice

What annoys me is that the two most distant yet strongest signal stations I get are not even in HD. They broadcast in 480i. Still clear but I want OTA HD stations to be full strength. I know that Telemundo has a HD station then why doesn't 47 broadcast in 1080i or 720p.


----------



## reddice

Also if multipath is a problem I fell sorry for all of those poor people who can't afford new TV's, cable or satellite and get there OTA stations using a converter box and a cheap $10 antenna from their old TV after 2/19/2009. If they knew it was going to be a problem then they should have left it the way it was. Yea I know that they wanted to action off the 700 Mhz off. Does not good that Google did not win the bid and the two evil's Verizon and AT&T won some of the spectrum.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14578332
> 
> 
> What annoys me is that the two most distant yet strongest signal stations I get are not even in HD. They broadcast in 480i. Still clear but I want OTA HD stations to be full strength. I know that Telemundo has a HD station then why doesn't 47 broadcast in 1080i or 720p.



Because they don't have to. HD is only an option for broadcasters, not a mandate.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14578345
> 
> 
> Also if multipath is a problem I fell sorry for all of those poor people who can't afford new TV's, cable or satellite and get there OTA stations using a converter box and a cheap $10 antenna from their old TV after 2/19/2009. If they knew it was going to be a problem then they should have left it the way it was. Yea I know that they wanted to action off the 700 Mhz off. Does not good that Google did not win the bid and the two evil's Verizon and AT&T won some of the spectrum.



Multipath was always a problem. It manifested itself as ghosting before, now it's dropouts.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14578332
> 
> 
> What annoys me is that the two most distant yet strongest signal stations I get are not even in HD. They broadcast in 480i. Still clear but I want OTA HD stations to be full strength. I know that Telemundo has a HD station then why doesn't 47 broadcast in 1080i or 720p.



Aren't some of their shows filmed and produced in Latin America, where they don't have the facilities to produce anything in HD?


The problem is bigger than the Spanish language broadcasters. It's all about market and availability of source material, so for them, going HD doesn't make sense.


It would make sense that the Spanish language broadcasters have strong OTA signals because a lot of their audience gets TV OTA. Besides, WNJU 47 broadcasts from NJ (I think it's Paterson), so the signal isn't as affected by strong multipath as it is for stations that broadcast from Empire.


As for wanting your HD stations full strength, put your antenna outside. Full strength isn't necessary for a perfect picture, mind you. I get by just fine with 70s and 60s.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14579228
> 
> 
> Multipath was always a problem. It manifested itself as ghosting before, now it's dropouts.



Yes, but the problem with digital signals is that they don't show you how bad the signal looks. There is no ghosty mess to look at or a message saying, "error - too much multi-path," etc., most will just say, "weak or no signal" or something similar. I think a lot of rabbit ear owners are going to be disappointed.


I have had good luck with a Silver Sensor in downtown San Diego and Boston for UHF, but I'm not optimistic about VHF reception prospects in similar situations for the stations moving back there. Ignoring other factors, it's not easy getting an indoor directional antenna for VHF (even for 7-13).


----------



## reddice

I think that WNJU and WFME run on the same broadcast tower.


I get most of my New York HD locals on Dish Network except for channel 9, 13 and 21 and I was looking forward of getting 13 and 21 OTA. Lets just hope that Dish Network carries those HD feeds soon.


I get fine with 70's and 60's strength too. It is just that every now and then it drops out. I guess that is multipathing.


I am not going to get another antenna. I like the look of the Radio Shack UFO Starship Enterprise antenna. We will see after February when the New York stations will be running we hope at full power.


----------



## SnellKrell

WLIW-DT no longer has an HD feed.


----------



## BrooklynGal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14576556
> 
> 
> Actually since you live in the city, you may need a directional antenna to counter the effect of multipath caused by all the tall buildings, which is especially a problem with digital television.
> 
> 
> You don't need a very high gain antenna, just a directional one.
> 
> 
> One of my friends who works for ABC TV recently got a digital TV and put an indoor antenna on it, but couldn't get all the channels because of all the multipath. He lives in Manhattan.



I'm in an apartment building in Homecrest (Bklyn), a bit farther south than you, Reddice. It's 10 miles to the Empire State Bldg. from here & the landlord will not allow an antenna on the roof, period, so that's out.

Till early July we averaged 3 stations OTA -- with plenty of static --- over the rabbit ears that came with the TV. 7 was always strong. 13 was shaky but usually there if we fiddled enough with the antenna & then we would get 1 or 2 others (channel 2 only showed up Sunday mornings for some bizarre reason). 4,5,9,11 were often too static-y to watch, but some of the time 1 or another of them came in well. I don't think we ever had ghosting (from what I understand, it would show as a duplicate of the picture to its left??), just awful static with lines zigging across & interrupting completely periodically (when a bus or train went by; when someone stood in certain areas of the room or house). so i'm not sure that multi-path is a problem here or not.


What I do find is that even though I can stand on Coney Island Avenue (a few blocks away) & point to the Empire State building on the horizon & it doesn't move, no one antenna setting is "the right one all the time" for any station. Not VHF, not UHF. Never has been 1 direction that always worked for rabbit ears, either... Can't explain it, but because of this, I find the UFO with remote extremely helpful. I've stored a few of the choices that each work some of the time for each station, & am in business. Also, I get great reception (when I get it) on the highest amp, & less to none with the middle or lowest one. So I'm not sure that a directional antenna without an amp is a better solution. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can explain what I'm experiencing better to me.


In July I put in the Zenith DTT-901 -- what a picture! Can't believe it! -- & started experimenting with antennas, I found that the 2 best turned out to be Radio Shack models. The Delta (no amp) got digital 4,5,7,47, 68 fairly consistently; 2, 9, 11, 26, 31, 68 sometimes & 13 never. The Zenith shows a signal bar that changes colors by area.(no/weak signal range...poor signal range...good signal range). All signals received via Delta antenna were either in the lowest range or, at best, at the bottom of the mid-range (poor reception). The pic was fine, but it went out frequently. Also, since we like 13 & they aren't ramping up their power yet, we want to receive it over the analog pass-through. On the analog pass-through, the Delta only got 7 reliably. (We kept it cause it was inexpensive & the best we found till then, but kept looking).


2 old antennas which were in the house & 6 new ones we trial-ed later -- the best by far is the UFO, which I found out about lurking here on the antenna discussion. It brings in all the stations the Delta does - plus 29







in the middle range of the bar (poor) Mostly, the signal is farther along the bar. 4,5,7, 11 even just touch the good signal part of the bar now & then... but, this is amped up on the highest setting & if I lower the amp, the signal goes. Still no 13, although on 2 occasions it showed it on the no...weak signal area without anything on the screen, so I have that setting saved & can re-try periodically / after 2/09. Using UFO on analog-pass through: best we've ever seen 13 since living here! (also getting 7,9,11,26,50,47 on analog -- to greater or lesser extent







-- not that anyone really wants to watch analog if we can watch digital. Be nice to get 50, though, that's also PBS. only shows on analog, though & is too static-y to watch or understand. Something else to play with...


Basically, when it's good it's great (except 13). But it's only good for all stations at the same time for brief periods. The signals suddenly drop off & I have to switch the antenna to another saved direction to get the channel back, & sometimes re-scan for channels again after doing so. It's occurred to me that maybe whatever is interfering with the signal is shifting it someplace (the water?) & that by changing to (my own by trial & error) alternate, I am getting the reflected signal? Till the weather or whatever changes again...


Will this constant adjusting ever end?


----------



## reddice

I don't think that antenna web and tv fool are that accurate. The 11217 zip code. It shows all the new york stations as green and WFME as yellow saying I would have problems picking up that station yet I get that waste the strongest. They probably did not update it. It does show 47 as running the most power.


Also why did WLIW stop broadcasting in HD? That is stupid since they have many good PBS programs that I would love to be able to watch in HD.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *boylan13* /forum/post/14570526
> 
> 
> OK, I did that and unfortunately the Sony doesn't have an analog signal strength meter. But visually the analog channels 7-13 look OK with some mild ghosting due to multi-path. 2-5 are pretty distorted. I hadn't heard about low VHF being used for any digital TV broadcasts, but if that's the case in your area, then the C2 is probably not the best fit. For UHF and upper VHF, it should work fine, range and terrain permitting.



Thank you for the update. It sounds like it's at least passable for 7, 11 & 13 at your location and perhaps 8 as well (its request to move to Times Square was granted).


Antennas Direct's claims of consistent gain throughout the entire DTV spectrum don't seem to be accurate, but designing an antenna to include 2-6 doesn't make sense. Leave Low-VHF for specialty antennas as that band adds the most size to an antenna and isn't needed for most areas.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14585338
> 
> 
> I don't think that antenna web and tv fool are that accurate. The 11217 zip code. It shows all the new york stations as green and WFME as yellow saying I would have problems picking up that station yet I get that waste the strongest. They probably did not update it. It does show 47 as running the most power.



They are accurate, they just don't take into account buildings and trees.


The buildings are causing your multipath issues.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14579569
> 
> 
> Yes, but the problem with digital signals is that they don't show you how bad the signal looks. There is no ghosty mess to look at or a message saying, "error - too much multi-path," etc., most will just say, "weak or no signal" or something similar. I think a lot of rabbit ear owners are going to be disappointed.



Correct. Signal strength meters are also misleading. They're simply a measure of signal quality (bit error rate) and not actual strength in dbm or anything like that.




> Quote:
> I have had good luck with a Silver Sensor in downtown San Diego and Boston for UHF, but I'm not optimistic about VHF reception prospects in similar situations for the stations moving back there. Ignoring other factors, it's not easy getting an indoor directional antenna for VHF (even for 7-13).



I work in midtown manhattan and I have a TV on my desk at the office. I have a little vertical whip which I use with it. It has really bad ghosting on the analog channels, but perfect picture on the digitals.


As for directional antennas with VHF, in strong signal areas, you can use a UHF directional and it will have some effect. Of course since you're dealing with an indoor antenna, you will always have multipath to deal with.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14586891
> 
> 
> Thank you for the update. It sounds like it's at least passable for 7, 11 & 13 at your location and perhaps 8 as well (its request to move to Times Square was granted).



Which NYC TV station is on 8?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14587218
> 
> 
> Which NYC TV station is on 8?



WNJB-DT 58-1. PBS from New Jersey.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14587239
> 
> 
> WNJB-DT 58-1. PBS from New Jersey.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I figured as much, but was quite surprised that NJN will now have a transmitter in NYC versus having its transmitters in NJ.


After checking the FCC records, it seems as though they are indeed moving there.


I wonder why the move is being made, co-channel perhaps? Or simply better facilities on 4 times square?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14581224
> 
> 
> I think that WNJU and WFME run on the same broadcast tower.



For the current digital, the lat/long is different, so I doubt it. But they are close.


Analog 47 is currently on the ESB.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14588401
> 
> 
> I figured as much, but was quite surprised that NJN will now have a transmitter in NYC versus having its transmitters in NJ.
> 
> 
> After checking the FCC records, it seems as though they are indeed moving there.
> 
> 
> I wonder why the move is being made, co-channel perhaps? Or simply better facilities on 4 times square?



Although it's not spelled out, WABC-DT desperately wanted to revert to Channel 7 for its digital transmission - giving up Channel 45. With the New Jersey Network controlling Channel 8, there had to be a "co-location" ESB or the Conde Nast Building at 4 Times Square - that's how it came about.


Going back to almost the beginnings of WNJU, Channel 47, a New York (ESB) and Channel 13's transmission point have been in mid-town.


Stations in various parts of the DMA get permission from the FCC to use

mid-town Manhattan (ESB or 4 Times Square) as their transmission locations.


----------



## MickleSt.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *boylan13* /forum/post/14552486
> 
> 
> What antenna are you using and do you have access to your roof or at least a window which faces South? Washington Heights isn't far from the ESB so with good equipment and proper placement, you might be able to get good reception today.
> 
> 
> -CB



Sorry for the delay, Boylan; I was on vacation. I have a Phillips MANT-410 amplified antenna. The window in the TV room faces North. However, that didn't matter until a few weeks ago. I was often getting pretty good reception with the antenna sitting on a chair next to the TV. Occasionally putting it in the window might help a bit, but not much.


As of last night, I'm still getting WNYW-HD (5-1) and its sister station WWOR on 5-2, and pretty well getting Ch. 25 in HD. Plus various Spanish language channels. I'm relying on the readout of the "info" menu on my Toshiba 26" LCD, which gives these stations three bars out of five. The other major networks' digital channels are reading "Digital signal too low." I may be able to get access to the roof, but I'm already on the top floor of a 5th floor walkup with most surrounding buildings about the same height--except for the Columbia Presbyterian Hosptial a few blocks to the south of me.


Well, I've lived with just Netflix for a few years now, so I suppose I can live with reruns of The Simpsons and Seinfeld instead of Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune.







(But I do so despise Fox news...)


----------



## reddice

Thanks. You all cleared up a lot of information. I am new to Digital TV. Got my first HD TV in July.


By the way I forgot to say I have my Radio Shack UFO antenna in the closet. My room is very tiny and that is the only place I can fit it. I know I can get better reception because I put it on my bed (I have a long coax cable) and I pulled in 4 green bars on 4, 5, 7 and 9.


----------



## jpr281

If anyone's watching the Giants game on WNBC, could someone tell me the avg bitrate you're getting? Thanks.


----------



## BrooklynGal

"Signal strength meters are also misleading. They're simply a measure of signal quality (bit error rate) and not actual strength in dbm or anything like that."


bit error rate? dbm? somebody take pity on a Sr. Citizen & explain what these are & how they affect what I see on my signal strength bar?


also, I'd appreciate it if someone could answer my previous post & tell me whether what I describe is or isn't multi-path? & if it is, based on what I'm describing, would you recommend a directional antenna with amp? Is there such a thing for indoor use?


the ufo in the closet?? you are closer than I am, so can probably do even better than I -- take the time to find the best place for the antenna, then figure out how to rearrange things sometime in the future so you can keep it there... since they say higher is better -- maybe you can put in a shelf above normal reach where it can sit undisturbed. btw, I found the best angle for the rabbit ears to receive analog via pass-through (7 & up, extended a bit under 2 ft), & leaving them extended isn't affecting my UHF reception at all. So once you set up what you will need in feb for the vhf stations, you won't have to keep climbing up to adjust it if you do put it way up somewhere.


channel 8? will that be what it transmits on -- another VHF broadcast? or will it be UHF? When will it happen? It would be very nice to see more PBS!


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 8 is VHF. It's the New Jersey Network/PBS out of New Brunswick, NJ.


It should be transmitting from the Conde Nast Building, 4 Times Square in Manhattan as of midnight, 2/17/09.


----------



## Skyeclad

Horrible reception tonight again. Little to no lock on 2-1, 4-1 or 5-1. The exception is 7-1 which is along with My 9 and the CW, is tolerable. As we going into the Fall TV season, it is is terribly disappointing that the work done in early August is either not complete or is poorly engineered.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14589432
> 
> 
> Although it's not spelled out, WABC-DT desperately wanted to revert to Channel 7 for its digital transmission - giving up Channel 45. With the New Jersey Network controlling Channel 8, there had to be a "co-location" ESB or the Conde Nast Building at 4 Times Square - that's how it came about.



All ABC O&O's were required by corporate to revert to their analog channels. I'm not optimistic that this was a good idea, but at least there was only one ABC O&O in Low-VHF (WPVI in Philly). I just don't see 7 working very well in big cities for DTV, but five of the top seven DMA's will have a 7, (four of which will be ABC).


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrooklynGal* /forum/post/14592610
> 
> 
> bit error rate? dbm? somebody take pity on a Sr. Citizen & explain what these are & how they affect what I see on my signal strength bar?



Unfortunately, many DTV tuners don't bother to separate signal strength from quality (SNR) (like most cell phones unfortunately). I have a TV which shows both SNR and signal strength, as well as CRC errors which helps to figure out what is going wrong.


A strong signal filled with noise and reflections, etc., can often be worse than a very weak signal with no noise or reflections.


I thought I had saved images of analog reception from downtown Boston, but I am unable to find them. I remember that the signals looked "scrambled," so much so as to be un-watchable in most cases. However, most DTV stations were just fine with the tuner I was using (On-Air GT). I'm holding no hope for VHF there, however, even though it was a UHF antenna.


----------



## KML0224

Has anybody northeast of New York City had problems receiving WABC-DT on channel 45? As some as you might know, WEDH-DT (PBS) channel 45 of Hartford signed on their digital channel last week from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT, which is a few miles west-southwest of downtown. WEDH-DT has a null towards the southwest to protect WABC-DT, but I'd imagine that some of you in western or southern Connecticut must be having problems with both stations.


----------



## Skyeclad

Gang,


I e-mailed my frustrations about poor reception to Joe Maguire, Broadcast Manager at the ESB and here is his response regarding the *ongoing* work at the ESB:


Thank you for the comments on your DTV reception. While I can't comment on the specifics of projects here at Empire, I can tell you that *work continues and you should expect to see an improvement in reception fairly soon*. Design and implementation of transmission systems at the building is provided by the broadcasters. If you want information concerning specific stations, it would be best for you to contact them directly.


Joe Maguire


Broadcast Manager


Empire State Building Co., LLC


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14593672
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, many DTV tuners don't bother to separate signal strength from quality (SNR) (like most cell phones unfortunately). I have a TV which shows both SNR and signal strength, as well as CRC errors which helps to figure out what is going wrong.



I noticed that you can see the SNR in the "dvr diagnostics" screen if you have a HD TiVo (Series 3 or TiVo HD).


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrooklynGal* /forum/post/14592610
> 
> 
> "Signal strength meters are also misleading. They're simply a measure of signal quality (bit error rate) and not actual strength in dbm or anything like that."
> 
> 
> bit error rate? dbm? somebody take pity on a Sr. Citizen & explain what these are & how they affect what I see on my signal strength bar?



The signal strength bar simply tells you how much *usable* signal is received by your receiver.


----------



## steve-avs

I was hoping I could watch the US Open coverage on WCBS-DT today but the signal is in the gutter again, so no such luck.


I called WCBS two days ago. I looked at a couple of online phonebooks and the number they gave for CBS television is out of service. I then called CBS radio and they transferred me to the TV division, I requested the engineering department and a fellow answered, but claimed as far as he knew they were broadcasting at full power. He did say he was not involved with that aspect of the department, asked for my name and number and said he would pass along my comments.


Today, I called CBS radio again, but asked for CBS TV's direct number before transferring me. It is 212-975-2161. The TV number was busy on transfer and as well as a couple of minutes later. I did finally get through and asked for engineering, but this time I got voicemail. I left my name and number, as requested, with the message that the WCBS-DT signal is not receivable today, has been poor for about 6 weeks since the move to the new antenna and had hoped to hear when the signal might return to what it was before that move.


I find it hard to believe that WCBS is unaware of the problem with their broadcast signal, yet with this being the condition for over a month and the comments from the fellow I spoke with, maybe they're not. An onslaught of telephone messages might convince them if they aren't aware of the problem. Should anyone call them and get some useful feedback please let the rest of us know. Thanks.


----------



## raj2001

Steve,


I can receive WCBS-DT56 just fine, and I am 48.5 miles away behind hills, too.


I get occasional dropouts but that is due to weather and trees.


Where are you exactly?


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/14596425
> 
> 
> Gang,
> 
> 
> I e-mailed my frustrations about poor reception to Joe Maguire, Broadcast Manager at the ESB and here is his response regarding the *ongoing* work at the ESB:
> 
> 
> Thank you for the comments on your DTV reception. While I can't comment on the specifics of projects here at Empire, I can tell you that *work continues and you should expect to see an improvement in reception fairly soon*. Design and implementation of transmission systems at the building is provided by the broadcasters. If you want information concerning specific stations, it would be best for you to contact them directly.
> 
> 
> Joe Maguire
> 
> 
> Broadcast Manager
> 
> 
> Empire State Building Co., LLC



That was a good idea and a little positive feedback is nice. I just hope soon doesn't mean 2/17/2009.


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14596789
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> 
> I can receive WCBS-DT56 just fine, and I am 48.5 miles away behind hills, too.
> 
> 
> I get occasional dropouts but that is due to weather and trees.
> 
> 
> Where are you exactly?



I'm in Carmel, Putnam County, about 50 miles just slightly east of north. Atmospheric conditions are ruling my reception of WCBS and to a lesser extent, WABC and WWOR. Last night the signals were booming in. WNYW was pinning my TV's signal meter at 100% and WCBS was in the high 70's to low 80's. But with late morning, usually around 11:00 AM the signal degrades and today WCBS varies between 2 and 35. Some days it can be a little better and almost watchable. I saw most of the tennis coverage on Monday with some dropouts, while Saturday and Sunday were impossible to watch.


My antenna is about 35 feet high and there are some trees in the line of sight to the ESB. Your tower is probably making the difference in your WCBS reception.


I want to emphasize that I'm at the mercy of atmospheric conditions. For example I recorded the 8pm Greatest American Dog and 9pm Criminal Minds on Wednesday on my Tivo HD. I got all of the dog show and sampled it to see that there were very few dropouts. The Tivo only reported 55 minutes for Criminal Minds and on sampling what it was able to record was laden with dropouts.


----------



## Skyeclad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/14596733
> 
> 
> Today, I called CBS radio again, but asked for CBS TV's direct number before transferring me. It is 212-975-2161. The TV number was busy on transfer and as well as a couple of minutes later. I did finally get through and asked for engineering, but this time I got voicemail. I left my name and number, as requested, with the message that the WCBS-DT signal is not receivable today, has been poor for about 6 weeks since the move to the new antenna and had hoped to hear when the signal might return to what it was before that move.
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe that WCBS is unaware of the problem with their broadcast signal, yet with this being the condition for over a month and the comments from the fellow I spoke with, maybe they're not. An onslaught of telephone messages might convince them if they aren't aware of the problem. Should anyone call them and get some useful feedback please let the rest of us know. Thanks.



Thanks for the tip, I just got off the phone with CBS Engineering. I expressed concerns with the signal levels and dropouts experienced and they said that work had begun on the antennas before the Olympics but had been stopped during the Olympics. They have two antennas, one that covers 3/4 and another that covers the remaining 1/4. He believes that they *should* have resumed work but the person I spoke with wasn't sure. He did say that their Chief Engineer was in contact with the ESB management but that he was unaware of the progress except to say that he believed work was due to be completed a couple of weeks ago.


I gave him my e-mail address and told him I could relay my experience with the signal levels relative to prior to the project's beginning and could provide updates as work progresses. He said he would forward my e-mail to the Chief Engineer as well as to the guy who tests signal levels throughout the DMA.


I mentioned to both the ESB and CBS that my main concern was that with no warning of dropouts and with no ETA about the completion of the work being done, where can we get reliable information in the event of an emergency?


Not sure if this helped but at least we know that there is an expectation of an improvement and that it seems like that time frame is measured in days or weeks and not months.


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/14597299
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip, I just got off the phone with CBS Engineering. I expressed concerns with the signal levels and dropouts experienced and they said that work had begun on the antennas before the Olympics but had been stopped during the Olympics. They have two antennas, one that covers 3/4 and another that covers the remaining 1/4. He believes that they *should* have resumed work but the person I spoke with wasn't sure. He did say that their Chief Engineer was in contact with the ESB management but that he was unaware of the progress except to say that he believed work was due to be completed a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> 
> I gave him my e-mail address and told him I could relay my experience with the signal levels relative to prior to the project's beginning and could provide updates as work progresses. He said he would forward my e-mail to the Chief Engineer as well as to the guy who tests signal levels throughout the DMA.
> 
> 
> I mentioned to both the ESB and CBS that my main concern was that with no warning of dropouts and with no ETA about the completion of the work being done, where can we get reliable information in the event of an emergency?
> 
> 
> Not sure if this helped but at least we know that there is an expectation of an improvement and that it seems like that time frame is measured in days or weeks and not months.



Thanks for your report. It's surprisingly difficult to get hard information. Waiting for the Olympics to conclude makes sense. I keep thinking about other important broadcasts that they would like to get out with a good signal.


US Open - not as yet

US Open Men's final and Jet's first game on Sunday.

Start of fall season shows - 9/22 I think.

Nielson ratings period - not sure, probably October.


Maybe we should start a pool.


It can't hurt letting them know we're having problems receiving the signal and it might help (WCBS-TV: 212-975-2161). I doubt the digital broadcasting is under the full watchdog eye of the FCC yet, so whatever requirements there are for emergency broadcasts probably doesn't come into play until the full transition, but I'm just guessing.


Thanks again.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/14597054
> 
> 
> I'm in Carmel, Putnam County, about 50 miles just slightly east of north. Atmospheric conditions are ruling my reception of WCBS and to a lesser extent, WABC and WWOR. Last night the signals were booming in. WNYW was pinning my TV's signal meter at 100% and WCBS was in the high 70's to low 80's. But with late morning, usually around 11:00 AM the signal degrades and today WCBS varies between 2 and 35. Some days it can be a little better and almost watchable. I saw most of the tennis coverage on Monday with some dropouts, while Saturday and Sunday were impossible to watch.



Last night was probably due to tropo. I was told (I wasn't home to verify) that there would be some fantastic tropo openings last night, so I guess there were. We had WBNG from Binghamton as well as the philly stations (KYW-DT, WCAU-DT, WPHL analog) booming in yesterday morning. Daily in the morning about an hour or so after sunrise we get some fantastic openings and TV comes in from all over the place. Then my WCBS-DT 56 signal drops out for a bit when the fading starts to take effect, but is good for most of the day, except close to sunset. After sunset it is usually fantastic.


Anyway, keep us informed as to your progress. I am quite surprised that CBS would be improving Channel 56 when they are going to 33 post transition, so I am not putting much hope into 56 getting better.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrooklynGal* /forum/post/14592610
> 
> 
> 
> the ufo in the closet?? you are closer than I am, so can probably do even better than I -- take the time to find the best place for the antenna, then figure out how to rearrange things sometime in the future so you can keep it there... since they say higher is better -- maybe you can put in a shelf above normal reach where it can sit undisturbed. btw, I found the best angle for the rabbit ears to receive analog via pass-through (7 & up, extended a bit under 2 ft), & leaving them extended isn't affecting my UHF reception at all. So once you set up what you will need in feb for the vhf stations, you won't have to keep climbing up to adjust it if you do put it way up somewhere.



I have it in the upper portion of my closet on a shelf so it is high up. Funny this yesterday was when I moved the antenna to a certain position 29 and 47 were very weak but I pulled in 4, 7, 9 and 11 with 4 green bars. I especially don't care about 29 or even 47 since I don't speak spanish. Also changing the direction with the remote improved reception. 7 was good on 7 position. 4 was good on 8 position. 11 was good on the 4 position. 9 was good either way.


This was yesterday. I don't know how good the reception would be today. As for channel 2 it still breaks up and the most I can get is a yellow signal. It is probably because they are running on a high channel number 56 so they have to run it at more power. It should be much better when they move to channel 33.


----------



## raj2001

If you can get 11.1 fine, WCBS-DT post transition will be fine as well.


----------



## reddice

Today the stations are mostly three yellow bars. I guess they are still tweaking the power on the ESB.


----------



## raj2001

Lots of dropouts for me as well. Even my strongest channels are dropping out.


I originally attributed it to the weather, but seeing as reddice is having difficulty as well, I am thinking otherwise.


----------



## raj2001

Signals are back to usable levels today, but attenuated by the rain, so WCBS-DT is still dropping out.


----------



## Roger Lococco

it's laughable to me that my strongest stations now are NJN and WNET.


----------



## raj2001

Yeah, I'm getting what I usually get (which is everything except WNET, WNYW and of course stations on the Island like WLIW and WLNY).


WCBS-DT56 is still dropping from time to time. I have a 2nd 4228 on order as well as a VHF antenna that I'm readying for post transition VHF.


----------



## thetoad

Wondering if I'd be able to get by with an indoor antenna in washington heights.


I'm unsure how to interpret antennaweb's information (seems it says I need the largest directional antenna). Is that really true? If washington heights has issues getting reception of NYC channels, how can anyone get good reception? we're at the highest point in NYC and relatively close to the transmitters.


----------



## SnellKrell

I have found antennaweb's site filled with incorrect information. Take large grains of salt with this one.


I would try, making sure you can return it if it doesn't work for you, a Silver Sensor indoor antenna. It's highly directional which means it helps to deal with multipath

problems.


Washington Heights is pretty high, (those living in Todt Hill on Staten Island will fight you about the highest point in the City), and yes, you're relatively close to the transmitting antennas, but do you have line-of-sight to the Empire State Building?


Do your windows face south toward 5th Avenue and 34th Street?


Try the Silver Sensor, it does wonders for me in the canyons of the East 60s.


----------



## raj2001

Conspiracy theorists will say that CEA's antennaweb.org is designed to sell cable TV and satellite subscriptions.


Whether or not that is the case, it says that I can only get two DT stations here with a large directional and preamp.


With a large directional (cm4228) and preamp (antennacraft permacolor 10G212) I can get nearly all of the NYC stations, and some of the philly ones.


So yes, take it with a big 40lb bag of diamond crystal.


----------



## mokomok

Hi folks, just checking back in. I live in Brooklyn, about 5 miles away from ESB. My last post was about giving up on OTA since I was having huge multipath issue (living on a ground floor apt in a neighborhood of 4-7 story apt buildings with no LOS to the tower). This is still the case - I luckily get all my locals in clear QAM down the pipe from Time Warner CATV where I buy my internet. Every now and then I switch off the clear QAM to the Silver Sensor to see if things are getting better. They have (a little) in that I can get a bit of 9.1 and 11.1 (which I hadn't before), but I have been noticing something peculiar that I wonder if anyone can shed any light on. This is what's crazy: every time a car or truck drives past my window, the signal drops out. Being in NYC, this happens all the time. Do these vehicles interfere with the signal that much? OTA is pretty much unwatchable with these dropouts. Some of the higher power stations are less affected (signal gets a bit pixelated instead of dropping out completely). But it is without fail my major cause of anguish in the OTA experiment. My setup is a Silver Sensor going via RG-6 into a Samsung 24" HDTV (T240HD) - I did say I live in a tiny apartment right? No roof access or building exterior access, so the antenna gets (so far) the best reception up on a ledge above the street facing window about 8ft off the ground, facing the ESB. All of these channels come in clear with 4 or 5 (out of 7) bars (according to the TV's signal meter): 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 25 - but when the dropouts occur, the signal meter goes to zero and then back up. This problem is independent of the usual multipath dropouts (which I have also been unable to solve). If it's this difficult for me, I can't imagine what it will be like for non-techy folks here in the city to tune in DTV when analog goes out! The NY Post will have a field day I bet. Anybody have any clues? I'm thinking of trying a different antenna - clearstream or DB-2 are my current candidates... Also, I saw good references for a signal attenuator above. Is all this maneuvering jumping the gun? Should I try something else, or even just wait until after February to make another decision? As I said before, I'm quite happy with the free QAM I'm getting from the cable line, but I'd like to have a solid backup when "cable goes out" or they decide not to keep the local HD channels in clear QAM. Also, solving this problem will somewhat satisfy the geek in me, so any help is appreciated.


----------



## thetoad

looks like the HDHomeRun I just got works great with ClearQAM that I'm getting via cable, so not going to worry about antenna for now










thanks anyways


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mokomok* /forum/post/14613829
> 
> 
> This is what's crazy: every time a car or truck drives past my window, the signal drops out. Being in NYC, this happens all the time. Do these vehicles interfere with the signal that much?



Yes. Vehicles, being made mostly of metal, act as reflectors. As they are moving, it results in dynamic multi-path, which tends to play havoc with even the most modern tuners. Most modern tuners can handle static multi-path (e.g. off buildings) ok. Maybe ATSC-M/H can cure the dynamic problem, though that is designed for mobile use (not HD).


Perhaps a more directional antenna can help, such as a CM4221. It is more directional in the vertical plane than the horizontal plane. Angling it up might help as well, to try and cut down the reflections from the vehicles. An attenuator may also be worth a try.


I wonder how VHF will perform at your location in February? What do analog 7, 11 & 13 look like?


----------



## ja2bk

WPIX
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=664787 



WPXN
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=73356 



WABC
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=664665 


WNET
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=18795


----------



## mokomok

Falcon, thanks for your reply. Those are great suggestions I will try when I get the chance (time, money, etc.). I'm glad I'm not crazy for having seen dropouts coordinated with passing cars - I suppose an 8ft high over ground level antenna is destined to have these kinds of problems. As far as the high VHF, the silver sensor picks them up with the usual ghosting, but not disastrous. I am anxious to find out what it'll all look like when everybody's got their full power antennas on and analog interference is "attenuated". This kind of sparkling discussion makes me wonder what kinds of conversations went on around the local watering holes and rotary clubs back in the day when analog TV was first getting turned on. Then again, I often wonder why I should get excited when the end of the transmission line is something like "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader". It's the medium... mode of delivery... not the product...


----------



## raj2001

The real "final" product will be when the freedom tower is built. Empire is simply not an ideal place to broadcast from, and some stations will be getting power increases when the FT is built.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's going to be a lot of years until the Freedom Tower is up - 2012?


I scratch my head when I realize that the Empire State Building's first steel was installed

on St. Patrick's Day, 1930 and the building officially opened on May 1, 1931.


No computers then, no helicopters to place girders, no modern technology!


Just dedicated hard workers with little bureaucracy getting in the way!!!


----------



## dturturro

How many people fell off?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/14626972
> 
> 
> How many people fell off?



2 Fell - one down an elevator shaft and the other off of a scaffold.


3 Additional people died during contruction - one struck by a truck,

one hit by a hoist and one killed by being in a blast area.


Hope that answers your question!


----------



## dturturro

Maybe a little beuracracy or time could have helped those 5.


----------



## raj2001

Part of the problem (and I don't blame them) was the victims' families. Some wanted NO development on that site, ever again, just a memorial.


But I'm glad at least some agreement was reached, and no you can't please everybody but I'm glad that something is being rebuilt, and that it includes a memorial.


Anyway, I still can't believe it was almost 7 years ago.


----------



## rothe

Greetings from the Jersey shore!


Specifically, I'm just south of Asbury Park, about a half-mile west of the beach, and 37 miles south of the Empire State Building. I've heard that reception near the ocean poses its own difficulties, I'm guessing because the waves themselves can create multipath and signal dispersion just as wet leaves in trees can mess up a signal for reception further inland.


Anyway, yesterday, I reoriented my antenna, and I'm now getting consistent signal strength readings of 95 (out of 100) for all but a two of the NY metro networks' digital stations. The weak ones are WNBC-DT, which is receivable but only came in at 60 during the five minutes that I was checking, and WNET-DT, which doesn't come in at all (zero signal strength).


I'm using a Radio Shack VU-190XR antenna, mounted in the attic. My two story house faces 30 degrees east of magnetic north, so the attic runs roughly north-south. The attic is just barely wide enough to cant the Rat Shack antenna to point directly at the ESB (15 degrees E of mag N from me). I should also mention that I noticed a night-and-day difference just by moving the antenna back about six feet from the front wall of the attic. Even though it wasn't looking through asphalt shingles like the sides of the attic have, I guess the wooden walls were causing some cancelling reflections.


The signal is getting helped along by a Channel Master 0064 pre-amplifier, with the FM trap enabled and tuned to reject a low-power FM station that's only a half-mile away. All of this is piped into a home theater PC running two Hauppauge HVR-2250 dual-tuner cards controlled by Beyond TV. I mention the Hauppauges because I doubt that they're the most sensitive tuner cards available -- with two tuners per card, they're already splitting the signal -- so there might still be room for improvement.


I know the story with WNET -- they're not planning on going to full power until the February cut-over, when they move their digital broadcasting from their current, temporary UHF channel back to VHF channel 13. All of that's fine by me, because I receive a good, strong analog signal from all of the VHF-hi stations, including WNET. I expect that I'll pick up a similarly strong digital signal from them after the transition.


But what's the story with WNBC-DT? Are they still working on their transmitting antenna? According to TVfool.com, they should be my third strongest signal, and yet, they're barely receivable. What are other people seeing from them? (If you chime in on this, tell us where you are and what antenna you're using.)


----------



## SnellKrell

I don't think that WNBC-DT is still working on its facilities.


I did notice that WABC-DT had been - including yesterday afternoon.


In Manhattan, still having problems with a very, very weak signal for WPIX-DT.


It can drive you crazy when you consider that 2,4,7,9,11 and 13 are all coming from the same non-directional antenna on the ESB.


Note: The above does not take into account the directional, below the mast, fill-in for Brooklyn and Queens.


----------



## xxtheycallmedxx

Hey Guys/Gals,

New user here from Elmhurst Queens (11373).I have Samsung 46 inch 1080p LCD HDTV.I currently use a cheap little set of rabbit ears which picks up the only two digital channels that are live (5-1 fox and 5-2 wwor) very well but has very poor/static filled picture for regular broadcast channels.Cable/Satellite is not an option and I'm planning on picking up a DVDR soon so could anyone recommend a good set of rabbits ears for me? I can provide more informaton if its needed to determine a good set for my setup.


Thanks in advance


----------



## SnellKrell

Try the Silver Sensor - but get it from a place where you can return it if it doesn't do the job for you.


----------



## jpru34

I live in in Northern NJ (07621) about 12 miles from the ESB. I have a Winegard 7694p in my attic. I pick up dtv 4,5,7, perfectly but have some problems getting 2, 9 and 11 reliably. I have a 4 way splitter and 75 ft of RG6 going to my television so I ordered a Winegard HDP-269 preamp which I hope will let me get all the dtv channels reliably. Of course, I do not expect to get Channel 13 until February (b\\c they are broadcasting in low power).


Any other ideas as to how improve reception? I pick up analog 2-13 perfectly so I am hoping that when all the stations are broadcasting DTV in full-blast on their permanent channels that I will receive everything perfectly.


----------



## lessblue

Hi everyone, I just picked up a Samsung DTB-H260 Digital Tuner and I'm now trying to figure out what antenna to place on the roof.


I live in a 3-story brownstone in Queens, New York (11385) on the first floor.

I have roof access and can install an antenna up there.


I'm not sure what antenna would suit me best, don't want to go overboard.

Most of the DT channels are 5 miles away, some are 18 miles away but in another direction completely. I attached a pic of the TVFool.com results.

TVFool Results 


Any suggestions?


(Also, the RG6 cable run will be about 40ft from the antenna to my Digital Tuner if that makes things more complicated)


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14575045
> 
> 
> I should not need no roof antenna since I live in the city and not outside the city.



Getting your antenna outdoors instead of indoors makes a big difference in signal quality regardless of how close or far you are from the broadcast. And as others have said, your biggest problem where you are is multi-path interference *not* signal strength. You're getting the same signal from two different directions (slightly out of phase) due to the signal bouncing off the walls of buildings and (in the case of an indoor antenna) bouncing off the walls inside your own apartment. Multi-path will KILL digital reception even though you're close to the towers.


Two things you can try. Simplest one: get a *variable attenuator* . They're about 12 bucks and they work _wonders_ inside the city to combat multi-path interference. They drop down both the main and the reflected signal by a few dB but in many cases you can drop down the reflected signal enough that it not longer interferes with the main signal. Try it. It's simple (and cheap!).


Second option: try to get a decent directional UHF/Upper VHF antenna on your roof or outside wall with line of sight view to the tower if possible. Materials cost is pretty low and it's really not that complicated overall (just make sure to properly ground the mast and the cable itself). But even _with_ an outdoor antenna, the variable attenuator may be necessary so buying one of those first is the simplest thing to try. A lot of people assume they need _*more*_ power when they fail to get certain channels in the city but actually the opposite may be true.


I have a DISH ViP722 in NYC and it's *great* to be able to use all three tuners, either to record 3 shows concurrently or two tape two from the sat tuners and watch live TV from the ATSC tuner.


Good luck.


-Chris


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrooklynGal* /forum/post/14583153
> 
> 
> Will this constant adjusting ever end?



Welcome to the path of perpetual experimentation and upgrade! I'm considering moving outside the city just to make it difficult to get 13.1 again.










In addition to the variable attenuator which I rave about so often (which you can get online from places like Solid Signal for $12 and works with any antenna) to help solve multi-path problems, you also might be interested in a new technology still under development called a "Smart Antenna." A Smart Antenna is one that is designed for indoor use to attempt to make broadcast reception as stable as a satellite or cable feed without the need to constantly re-adjust your antenna gain or orientation.


A Smart Antenna communicates with a compatible ATSC tuner or Digital Converter Box and actually optimizes itself for each specific channel. Internally its phase and be adjusted and elements switched on and off, gain raised or lowered based on feedback that it receives from the tuner. When you go through the initial channel scan process, the antenna tweaks its reception for each channel and remembers these internal settings when you switch channels later. These are not really available yet and probably won't be that cheap (upwards of $50), but the tech seems promising.


I covered one manufacturers annoucement about this from CEDIA Expo last week:

HDTV Antennas Get Smart Courtesy of Antennas Direct 


Worth looking into. Only drawback is for it to work your tuner must be Smart Antenna-enabled. The RCA DTA800 CECB is Smart Antenna ready, but your Zenith is not. And I haven't seen a single TV manufacturer announce support for this yet either (though they're all seemingly jumping on the Tru2way cable bandwagon).


Hope that helps...


-CB


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14586891
> 
> 
> Antennas Direct's claims of consistent gain throughout the entire DTV spectrum don't seem to be accurate, but designing an antenna to include 2-6 doesn't make sense. Leave Low-VHF for specialty antennas as that band adds the most size to an antenna and isn't needed for most areas.



I spoke with Richard Schneider and one of his engineers at length at CEDIA Expo last week and I don't think they would claim that their antennas offer "consistent gain" across the Upper VHF and UHF spectrum. They know it's all about compromise and design accordingly. Based on the stats they were showing, around 75% of the HDTV and digital channels available now (or planned) are on UHF bands, 23% are on Upper VHF and 2% are on low VHF. So most of their modern compact antenna designs work best on UHF and work pretty well on Upper VHF, but really aren't suited for Low VHF use. Of course, some of these two percent (low VHF digital channels) which are in use or slated for use after 2/09 are in sizable markets but, as you said, it's not really possible to make one compact antenna that does all three bands well.


Better to get a UHF/Upper VHF antenna for most channels, and if you really need low VHF, add a dedicated VHF antenna for that along with a diplexer.


-CB


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MickleSt.* /forum/post/14590673
> 
> 
> Sorry for the delay, Boylan; I was on vacation. I have a Phillips MANT-410 amplified antenna. The window in the TV room faces North. However, that didn't matter until a few weeks ago. I was often getting pretty good reception with the antenna sitting on a chair next to the TV. Occasionally putting it in the window might help a bit, but not much.



If you can get on the roof, do it! It's not so much about getting the antenna higher (which is always good), but getting it outside where the external and internal walls of your building won't interfere causing additional multi-path problems.


You don't have to spend much for a UHF antenna that would work well from your location, facing south toward the ESB. And you can get a small virtually flat coax cable extender (female on both ends, about 10"-12" long) so you can get the antenna cable into your window without drilling a hole through the exterior wall. It actually fits between most windows and jambs and still allows you to close and lock the window.


To mount the antenna mast on the roof (with a brick wall), you'll probably need a masonry bit and masonry screws (unless you can piggyback on an existing mast on your roof but leave at least 5 linear feet between antennas if you do). I've seen a few rooftop antennas that are just sitting up there completely disconnected (poor things!), from when the user went for cable or satellite and was too lazy to take it down. Scope it out up there and see what you have. There are also tripod mounts that can work pretty well.


It's also important to ground the mast and cable. In NYC, this is typically done by connecting the mast to one of the building's metal vent pipes via 14-gauge (or thicker) solid core grounding wire. These pipes are *supposed* to be grounded to power ground in the basement. If you can get access to a known power line ground or directly to an earth ground, then this is preferable.


Otherwise, if you don't want to mess with roof mounting, then I would say try and get the antenna to a south-facing window if you can and experiment with a variable attenuator in the antenna line (with the Philips set to its lowest gain setting). A lot of people have luck with the silver sensor, but you could try some experimentation with placement of the current antenna and use of an attenuator. Frankly, I find the powered antennas to be pretty useless in the city for digital reception. They don't help with multi-path at all. In fact they probably hurt.


-CB


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/14640410
> 
> 
> But what's the story with WNBC-DT? Are they still working on their transmitting antenna? According to TVfool.com, they should be my third strongest signal, and yet, they're barely receivable. What are other people seeing from them? (If you chime in on this, tell us where you are and what antenna you're using.)



I live in another direction (Sussex) and they are the strongest NYC/ESB station for me.


----------



## xxtheycallmedxx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xxtheycallmedxx* /forum/post/14641794
> 
> 
> Hey Guys/Gals,
> 
> New user here from Elmhurst Queens (11373).I have Samsung 46 inch 1080p LCD HDTV.I currently use a cheap little set of rabbit ears which picks up the only two digital channels that are live (5-1 fox and 5-2 wwor) very well but has very poor/static filled picture for regular broadcast channels.Cable/Satellite is not an option and I'm planning on picking up a DVDR soon so could anyone recommend a good set of rabbits ears for me? I can provide more informaton if its needed to determine a good set for my setup.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14642111
> 
> 
> Try the Silver Sensor - but get it from a place where you can return it if it doesn't do the job for you.



Thanks I will look into that.Anyone else with suggestions? Also I do not have roof access so any antenna I get needs to be an indoor antenna.


----------



## xxtheycallmedxx

Nevermind guys after using my tv auto programming I have all OTA channels as DTV now...I'm pretty happy because they all clear and this will make getting a dvdr a definite now!


----------



## boylan13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lessblue* /forum/post/14642349
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, I just picked up a Samsung DTB-H260 Digital Tuner and I'm now trying to figure out what antenna to place on the roof.
> 
> 
> I live in a 3-story brownstone in Queens, New York (11385) on the first floor.
> 
> I have roof access and can install an antenna up there.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> (Also, the RG6 cable run will be about 40ft from the antenna to my Digital Tuner if that makes things more complicated)



I use a Clearstream 2 from Antennas Direct on my 3-story roof in Astoria, 2-3 miles away. Excellent results on all channels. I think it's $80 at Target (online only), $60 from Solid Signal. Optimized for UHF but it should work for Upper VHF as well once they switch over. I've got a Terrestrial Digital (which is also Antennas Direct) 42XG up there too (for a different system) and it's fine too but the Clearstream looks cooler.










Later,


-Chris


----------



## jpru34

Anyone have any idea which local stations are currently broadcasting at the same "full" power which they will be broadcasting in after Feb 09??? I am trying to figure out if the reception I can get in my house now is the same as I will get in February?


(I know about Channel 13 not being full power so I am looking to find out about the others)


Thanks


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14643396
> 
> 
> I live in another direction (Sussex) and they are the strongest NYC/ESB station for me.



Same here in Somerset NJ. NBC became very strong just before olympics. It was the weakest before that. Now CBS is the weakest link for me. But I still get it fine without any problem using a 3rd gen tuner (Hisense DB-2010) paired with the cheapo Eagle/Aspen DTV2UHF (DB2 clone) antenna mounted on a floor standing walmart lamp indoor facing walls and a whole lot of trees.


----------



## xxtheycallmedxx

how are you guys able to tell when a signal is strong/weak?


----------



## SnellKrell

Most TV tuners have a "signal strength" meter function that will register the relative

strength of each Over-the-Air channel that you receive.


There's a whole discussion that what is being read is not truly signal strength, but that's a separate discussion. As least what you can read is how one station is being received vs. another.


----------



## xxtheycallmedxx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14650852
> 
> 
> Most TV tuners have a "signal strength" meter function that will register the relative
> 
> strength of each Over-the-Air channel that you receive.
> 
> 
> There's a whole discussion that what is being read is not truly signal strength, but that's a separate discussion. As least what you can read is how one station is being received vs. another.




I have an option on my tv to view the signal strength of the channel I'm viewing,but it doesn't stay on my screen at all times,only when I have that option from the menu displayed...is that what you are referring to?


----------



## SnellKrell

I guess it depends on your set.


But if it's giving you a read out of signal strenth, that's it!


----------



## fredd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/14640410
> 
> 
> G
> 
> But what's the story with WNBC-DT? Are they still working on their transmitting antenna? According to TVfool.com, they should be my third strongest signal, and yet, they're barely receivable. What are other people seeing from them? (If you chime in on this, tell us where you are and what antenna you're using.)



I'm located here in central NJ-north Mercer County and i've been receiving WNBC-DT fairly reliably since August (when the olympics coverage started). Just prior to that WCBS, WNYW, & WABC virtually disappeared. WNYW(Fox5) is apparently tailoring the radiation pattern of their transmission to avoid interferences with WNJT-DT-52.1-4 transmitting from Trenton on UHF-43 & another UHF station - channel-44 in Atlantic City. I'm assuming the loss of ABC & CBS are (hopefully) just temporary due to the transmitter work at the ESB.

My antenna is a 30+ year old 10ft yagi with a CM3041 Spartan3 UHF mast amplifier. Prior to the combiner work at the ESB in July I received all the NYC stations except WNET, WNBC, and more recently WNYW quite reliably. Reception on channels 9 & 11 is generally still pretty stable and reliable.

I agree with several previous posters on this thread about the frustrating lack of public information on this transmitter work. For a major market like NY, and for local stations that pride themselves on their news departments and coverage, this dearth of information about the very channels they use to reach their viewers is a bit ironic.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14650852
> 
> 
> Most TV tuners have a "signal strength" meter function that will register the relative
> 
> strength of each Over-the-Air channel that you receive.
> 
> 
> There's a whole discussion that what is being read is not truly signal strength, but that's a separate discussion. As least what you can read is how one station is being received vs. another.



I have a pinnacle USB TV stick that has two meters on the OSD - one says signal strength, one says signal quality.


Could just be a gimmick, but putting it out there FWIW.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fredd* /forum/post/14653568
> 
> 
> I'm located here in central NJ-north Mercer County and i've been receiving WNBC-DT fairly reliably since August (when the olympics coverage started). Just prior to that WCBS, WNYW, & WABC virtually disappeared. WNYW(Fox5) is apparently tailoring the radiation pattern of their transmission to avoid interferences with WNJT-DT-52.1-4 transmitting from Trenton on UHF-43 & another UHF station - channel-44 in Atlantic City.



Well it looks like they killed that fly with a sledge hammer because they are very low here in the Northwest (Sussex). I cannot get a lock reliably, only very occasionally. Probably when all the leaves fall off I might get a somewhat usable signal.


----------



## jayans04

Hey all,


I havent used the ATSC tuner on my LN-S3241D(Samsung 32Inch) for a long time. Anyhow, I hooked it up today and I cannot even receive NBC-DT. What is going on? Did NBC digital signal go offline? I was able to before receive it and now I only get analog which is very "rainy". Also does anyone know what happened to the english music channel that used to be on 11.2 or 3? It isn't there anymore; I think it used to be called Tube or something..

Lastly, Fox is the only channel I receive the best but there is here and there some static. The best channel I receive is 21 so I guess you guys can tell which way I am facing from the ESB(14.1 Miles away).


----------



## Straphanger

If the best channel you can receive is 21, you might be facing the wrong way as 21 is a Long Island station. Might want to try reorienting your antenna.


As for The Tube, that went bankrupt a couple years ago. I believe there's Spanish programming now to replace it.


----------



## raj2001

jayans04, what antenna are you using?


----------



## jayans04

Using Silver Sensor.


My antenna is facing towards Manhattan. Channel 5 is the best reception followed by CBS then ABC, NBC is not picked up what so ever except analog. Wth is going on? Is their signal not strong enough?


----------



## raj2001

If you're using an indoor antenna, don't expect too much of a spectacular result, especially if you're more than 10 miles from the transmitter.


NBC is actually the strongest where I am, but I am on the other side of Manhattan, way up north west.


----------



## jpru34

Anyone else having trouble with this channel? Channel 11 isn't so great either.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/14670169
> 
> 
> Anyone else having trouble with this channel? Channel 11 isn't so great either.



I've had some more frequent dropouts on DT56 (2-1) but I thought it was just weather.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14670406
> 
> 
> I've had some more frequent dropouts on DT56 (2-1) but I thought it was just weather.



The lack of a consistent signal for Digital TV is very frustrating - especially when I get perfect reception on analog for all the channels


----------



## kousikb

A good antenna can make a day and night difference. I am getting 2.1 reliably with this antenna.
 
 
 


This is with Hisense DB2010, which is known to be a weak 3rd gen tuner. If you see the signal strength, it's not 100%. All my other NY channels are 100%. CBS is the weakest. On a good day, it reaches 1 bar less from the max. My antena setup is a Eagle/Aspen DB2 clone from amazon with a 25ft run of RG-6 (without any splitter) and without any preamp. Previously I had the Terk HDTVa which was good too.. but this is considerably better.


----------



## TSS_Killer

A few of the transmitters went out during the middle of the night for about 4 hours. The transmitters came on about five minutes ago and for the first time in about 7 weeks, all of the stations that I was receiving before are now being received again. Thanks ESB staff.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, here in the East 60s in Manhattan, 4 has almost disappeared, it had been one of my strongest and most stabile signals.


7 is lower, 9 is a bit higher and thankfully 11 is now watchable.


I hope they're still working to fix things.


If not, losing 4 for 11 isn't a deal I would have made!


----------



## jpru34

I am now receiving digital 2-13 perfectly!!!!! [Yes - not a typo, I am even receiving DTV 13 for the first time)


What did they do over at ESB????


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/14679555
> 
> 
> I am now receiving digital 2-13 perfectly!!!!! [Yes - not a typo, I am even receiving DTV 13 for the first time)
> 
> 
> What did they do over at ESB????



By 13, do you mean PBS 13 (WNET-DT)? Yes I too noticed that NBC, FOX went blank in the middle of the night just like that from 100% reception. I figured that they might be doing some maintenance, but was surprised that they go out of the air without giving any advance notice. I will rescan today to see whether I can get 13 again. Sometime back I heard a rumour that even 21-x (WLIW) will be broadcasted from ESB to serve NJ viewers. It will be really good, if they do that.


----------



## jpru34

Yes - by 13 I meant WNET-DT. I was previously unable to even get a weak signal on it and now I pick it up perfectly (although it is still weaker than channels 2-11). I am curious what exactly they did over at ESB last night as 2 and 11 (previously unstable and weak) are also coming in at 100% now.


----------



## rothe

Hey jpru34! (or anybody else who can check it now)


Is WNET-DT still at UHF 61? I would be surprised if they upgraded that signal while still at the same frequency.


----------



## steve-avs

I can confirm some of the previous good news. At about 12:40am last night 2,4,7,9 and 11 went dark. 5 was still broadcasting with their usual strong signal. About an hour or so later 7 came back on and was a now a near match for 5's signal level. This morning about 9:15am I checked and found all the major locals, except 5, had increased signal levels.


Snellkrell: I see your post was at 5:40am, so I'd guess 4 wasn't fully restored. How are you doing now?


kousikb: It's 58, WNJB, that will be moving to 4 Times Square that I think you're referring to. That will be a nice addition for many of us, though I'm pretty sure they won't be able to begin until 2/18/09 because they will be using channel 8's frequency which would interfere with channel 7 analog. If there are other rumors for 21 moving to the ESB I'm in favor of it and want to hear more!


jpru34: Where are you located? I'm 50 miles north and still no sign of 13 and honestly I'm not expecting it, but it would be helpful to know what your distance from the ESB is.


TSS_Killer: You win the prize for bearer of good news.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/14681689
> 
> 
> kousikb: It's 58, WNJB, that will be moving to 4 Times Square that I think you're referring to. That will be a nice addition for many of us, though I'm pretty sure they won't be able to begin until 2/18/09 because they will be using channel 8's frequency which would interfere with channel 7 analog. If there are other rumors for 21 moving to the ESB I'm in favor of it and want to hear more!



That probably came from me. I only suggest it because WLIW is spending the money to revert from 22 to 21, and the only reason I could see to spend all that money is to boost power and move in. Since they're co-owned with WNET, it seems like it would make sense to me from a technical stand-point. (22 would be limited by WNJS-DT in Camden, same transmitter site as WMCN-DT which limits Fox 5's digital)


But there are political forces that might make a potential WLIW move difficult, from what I've been told.


- Trip


----------



## jpru34

WNET-DT is still at UHF 61 - I am located approx 11.9 miles from the ESB.


----------



## jpru34

I should add that I recently purchased a Winegard HDP-269 preamp which has significantly helped me out with my signals being that I need to split them.


----------



## SnellKrell

Interesting point.


The takeover was not universally smiled upon.


Those living on Long Island were rightfully suspicious that their local indentity would be subjugated.


All of that has been taken care of by way of programming and emphasing the Long Island identity.


If a transmission facility were to be moved to the ESB, in my opinion, as long as the signal didn't disipate reception on Long Island, no one should care.


In my opinion, a tower's location should not, at least logically, make that much difference.


----------



## Trip in VA

My big question is, with the move of WNJB-DT to Times Square, is where does WNJN-DT fit into all this? It doesn't make sense to me to have two signals with such huge areas of overlap.


Does NJN sell WNJN-DT? (A bad move, I'd say, given some of the areas that are shadowed from NYC)


Does NJN move the transmitter west, maybe to where WMBC analog is? That'd give them a big signal out there. Heck, they could do a swap with WMBC, move the WMBC license to Montclair and the WNJN license to Newton, then build 51 out there. That'd get it past the FCC.


Or do they leave it where it is, given the current money problems at NJN?


- Trip


----------



## TSS_Killer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/14680042
> 
> 
> I figured that they might be doing some maintenance, but was surprised that they go out of the air without giving any advance notice.



Actually, the Dish Network EPG reported that 2,4,5, and 7 were Off Air from 12:35 to 5am (even though the satellite transmission was never interrupted).


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/14681689
> 
> 
> I can confirm some of the previous good news. At about 12:40am last night 2,4,7,9 and 11 went dark. 5 was still broadcasting with their usual strong signal. About an hour or so later 7 came back on and was a now a near match for 5's signal level. This morning about 9:15am I checked and found all the major locals, except 5, had increased signal levels.
> 
> 
> Snellkrell: I see your post was at 5:40am, so I'd guess 4 wasn't fully restored. How are you doing now?
> 
> 
> kousikb: It's 58, WNJB, that will be moving to 4 Times Square that I think you're referring to. That will be a nice addition for many of us, though I'm pretty sure they won't be able to begin until 2/18/09 because they will be using channel 8's frequency which would interfere with channel 7 analog. If there are other rumors for 21 moving to the ESB I'm in favor of it and want to hear more!
> 
> 
> jpru34: Where are you located? I'm 50 miles north and still no sign of 13 and honestly I'm not expecting it, but it would be helpful to know what your distance from the ESB is.
> 
> 
> TSS_Killer: You win the prize for bearer of good news.



SnellKrell here. Currently at work. Will report back when I get home this evening. Hope Channel 28 is back!!!


----------



## rothe

WNET-DT at 95 -- same as all of the other ESB transmitters -- down here at the Jersey shore, 37 miles due south. Yippee!


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, I'm home and I'm happy for those of you that are now getting reception.


But, I'm not a happy camper!!!!!


Channel 28 (WNBC-DT) has disappeared - it used to be possibly my strongest and most consistent channel. No more!!!!!


On my set, 7 is stronger than it was, and so is 11 (although weaker than most).


Ugh!


----------



## reddice

I don't know where you live but reception right now it terrible. I can at best get a yellow signal on channel 4. 7, 9 and 11 I can barely get it keeps dropping out and 13 of course I always get nothing.


This is why I don't have my 612 DVR hooked up over the air. I don't trust recording anything OTA. Plus the DVR has a real sensitive tuner. If I get just one pixel it goes right to a annoying error screen.


----------



## SnellKrell

I live in the East 60s, near 2nd Avenue in Manhattan.


Strange to hear that you have trouble in Brooklyn.


"Yellow signal" means nothing to me - but doesn't sound as if it's strong!


The changes made a number of weeks ago had a fill-in panel mounted on the S.E. corner of the ESB specifically to help with reception in Brooklyn and Queens.


----------



## reddice

Yesterday I got 4, 7, 9 and 11 green. Now I can barely get them. They keep pixelating.


That waste 29 is strong now. So new york stations keep pixleating yet a stupid








"Lord thou God" crap







I can get the strongest. It just really peaves me off because it is 480i religious crap no HD and it is the furthest away. I know all about multipathing so sorry to rant again.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14683993
> 
> 
> I live in the East 60s, near 2nd Avenue in Manhattan.
> 
> 
> Strange to hear that you have trouble in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> "Yellow signal" means nothing to me - but doesn't sound as if it's strong!
> 
> 
> The changes made a number of weeks ago had a fill-in panel mounted on the S.E. corner of the ESB specifically to help with reception in Brooklyn and Queens.



Maybe the fill-in panel broke because today the reception is terrible. Channel 5 is the same yellow signal, if I move the antenna out of the closet I can get it 4 green bars but the other NY stations like 4, 7, 9 and 11 which use to be the strongest all I can get is a pixeled mess to a black screen with zero to one red bars no matter where I move the Enterprise antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNYW-DT (5) has its own transmitting antenna on the mast of the ESB.


What has recently been done, and the fill-in array, they only concern

2, 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13 - the stations part of the Combiner project.


----------



## reddice

When I see that big antenna on the ESB I use to think that it was just one big antenna. Did not know it had things like mast and fill-in arrays.


----------



## jpru34

So the reason for improved (or reduced - depending on location) reception is b\\c they installed a new combiner antenna?


----------



## SnellKrell

The new Combiner antenna was installed the first week of August.


What has been done in the last few days, I believe, are some sort of adjustments.


----------



## tahoejoe

But not much. 5 is still the strongest, but I am at least receiving some signal on all channels up through 11. The weakest being 7 which is unwatchable at this point. Before August, 7 was the strongest and most dependable signal by far. This is the first time I've ever received 11. Still no 13.


It would be helpful if posters who don't have their location in their profile, list their location in their posts.


----------



## kousikb

Checked yesterday.. for me most of the signals improved. 2.x is up at 97% from 70%. 4.x, 5.x, 7.x, 9.x, 11.x, 25.x and 31.x are now all coming with 100%. I am still not able to get WNET-DT. I haven't tried with my TVs inbuilt tuner or the Zenith CECB. May be it'd come with the Zenith (but I hate that Zenith because of the audio issue).


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14683949
> 
> 
> Well, I'm home and I'm happy for those of you that are now getting reception.
> 
> 
> But, I'm not a happy camper!!!!!
> 
> 
> Channel 28 (WNBC-DT) has disappeared - it used to be possibly my strongest and most consistent channel. No more!!!!!
> 
> 
> On my set, 7 is stronger than it was, and so is 11 (although weaker than most).
> 
> 
> Ugh!



Tricky business. No doubt the multipath signals have increased with the overall signal increases. I'm sure you will beat it and it should help others living in the city to know what worked best for you.


Last night all signals, 2 through 11, were strong in Putnam County with 2 being a little weaker than the rest. 13 is still too weak to receive here.


----------



## jpru34

1) Does anyone know if there is really any benefit to terminating unused coaxial jacks on a splitter?


2) Also, I am convinced that the strength meter on my converter box is worthless as it indicates I only have 35% reception on WNET-DT but I have absolutely zero dropouts and perfect reception - yet, last week, I had 60-70% strength on some of my stations (e.g. Channel 2-DT) and frequent dropouts? Can anyone explain?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/14689635
> 
> 
> 1) Does anyone know if there is really any benefit to terminating unused coaxial jacks on a splitter?
> 
> 
> 2) Also, I am convinced that the strength meter on my converter box is worthless as it indicates I only have 35% reception on WNET-DT but I have absolutely zero dropouts and perfect reception - yet, last week, I had 60-70% strength on some of my stations (e.g. Channel 2-DT) and frequent dropouts? Can anyone explain?



1 - See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/glossaryR.html , and note the two entries - one for Splitters and one for Terminators. I would think it would be best do replace a splitter that has unused connections with a smaller splitter.


2 - Signal strength is not the same as signal quality. You can have a strong signal but still get clobbered by multipath.


Check out the rest of that hdtvprimer site. There's some great tips in there!


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/14691168
> 
> 
> 1 - See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/glossaryR.html , and note the two entries - one for Splitters and one for Terminators. I would think it would be best do replace a splitter that has unused connections with a smaller splitter.
> 
> 
> 2 - Signal strength is not the same as signal quality. You can have a strong signal but still get clobbered by multipath.
> 
> 
> Check out the rest of that hdtvprimer site. There's some great tips in there!



If you have a splitter with some unused ports, install terminating resisters in those unused ports. That way if you need a larger splitter at some point you don't have to buy a new one. Also remember that any splitter will add 2 DB of loss to the signal. Just bought an HD television and the only station I have trouble with is WNET. Their analog signal is fine but the HD signal is very weak. I'm sure when the leaves disappear the signals will improve. Interestingly, channel 68 analog is very noisy here but they have a excellent HD signal. May be time to replace my vhf/uhf antenna with the deep fringe UHF only antenna I used to have up.


----------



## picaman

FWIW, I'm also getting WNET for the first time. I'm in Riverdale, ~15 miles north of the ESB. It's a strong, clear signal -- 100% quality and 85% strength. Previously it didn't even register on the meter. I'm so psyched to get that PBS station -- I get NJN but in my opinion it's not nearly as good content-wise.


----------



## dagger666

what is with channel 13-01 - 05, i'm only 14 miles from NYC and can not get them but can get 50-01 - 05 and they are NJ station almost twice the distance. 31 is a strong lock but 21 comes and goes and 47 but can lock 41. During rain days the planes fly over my house for JFK and screw with reception.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/14689635
> 
> 
> 1) Does anyone know if there is really any benefit to terminating unused coaxial jacks on a splitter?



Absolutely.


The terminators prevent the signal from reflecting back and being radiated out the antenna (wasted).


----------



## raj2001

Not a really good pic, but this is what I'm using (the tower isn't tilted, it's just the camera):











Close up:











The main (ham radio) antenna is off the tower for maintenance, and going back up next week.


The TV antenna is a CM4228.


The 4228 is at 70 or so feet AGL. We are approximately 800ft ASL and 48.5 miles from the ESB in NYC.


----------



## BrooklynGal

I was so hoping to get Wnet, but nothing doing. Whatever it is they did way up there, it hasn't helped me in South Bklyn. I'm a bit over 10 miles south of the ESB.


Current situation: no reception at all on 2 (always has been weak) or 7 (once my strongest signal) or 31 (used to be quite good).


4 & 5 coming in clearly (no interference/ clear pic & sound. just touching the "good reception area" on my signal bar) this is about where 5.1 & 5.2 have been in the recent past. 4 used to be fine, became superb, then got spotty and lately disappeared. Now it's back, though not quite superb. That's the total for the good news.


9, 11, 25, 45 show in mid-portion of signal bar -- where I have had perfect pic & sound most of the time in the past. Tonight, the actual reception is interrupted: slow slurred sound, pic freezes. not watchable. In the recent past all (except 9) were fine; 9 didn't always lock, but when it did, it was fine.


68 & 29 show up in same portion of signal bar as 9,11 etc, but with no sound & only occasional flashes of the pic, which then freezes & disapears again.


45 & 68 always used to be among the strongest signals -- had me wondering if I should take up Spanish.










29 isn't my cup of tea. Reception was & remains spotty.


Clearly the signal wavers when a train passes over 1 portion of the track. fwiw the spot that causes the problem is South of me & ESB is North. I'm guessing that the reflection from that angle (or waves of electricity traveling through the air from that spot) collide with the TV signals.


Other than that, I don't know that multipath is my issue? with all the talk re attenuating the signal to cut the multipath interference to where it won't interfere with the real signal, when I have a strong signal on a channel & actual reception is perfect, the UFO (active antenna) is always set at the highest level - 3. When I lower it to 2, signal immediately worsens or disappears on every channel. Level 1 almost never shows a signal or brings anything in. Doesn't seem reasonable for me to assume attenuating the signal to lower yet would help me.


----------



## jaypb

Just an FYI for those who may have missed last week's reruns of the first 2 episodes of season 2....I forgot to post about it- My D* guide didn't show them with an HD logo so I wasn't sure if they'd be in HD...but they were. Sunday at 12:05 and 1:05 AM IIRC. Just hope no work is being done overnight on the antenna Saturday into Sunday!


Same schedule for this weekend for episodes 3 and 4...not sure how long it will run, but if you're a fan it's really cool to see these in HD once again....


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14693128
> 
> 
> Not a really good pic, but this is what I'm using (the tower isn't tilted, it's just the camera):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Close up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The main (ham radio) antenna is off the tower for maintenance, and going back up next week.
> 
> 
> The TV antenna is a CM4228.
> 
> 
> The 4228 is at 70 or so feet AGL. We are approximately 800ft ASL and 48.5 miles from the ESB in NYC.



That is awesome - Did you put up that tower yourself? If so, how did you do it?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/14695946
> 
> 
> That is awesome - Did you put up that tower yourself? If so, how did you do it?



The tower is from a company called AN Wireless.


The foundation was done by a contractor, but AN Wireless supplies full spec and plans for the foundation. That is the most critical part.


The actual erection was done with a crane.


It's not cheap, and I had to get local permits and educate (argue with) the local zoning board to get the permits, citing both local zoning laws excluding ham towers from the special use permits for commercial facilities, as well as the FCC's PRB-1.


As I said, the tower is for ham use, but since it's up there, I figured why not put a TV antenna or two.


At 70 feet it clears the trees in the NYC direction. The top of the mast is at 86 feet, with a dualbander at the top. I can talk on VHF/UHF repeaters as far away as Danbury, CT (~70 miles).


----------



## reddice

Reception is still crummy as it was yesterday. Before Wednesday it was good but now it is just bad. 4 and 5 has a yellow signal. 7 has a yellow signal but keeps breaking up. 9 and 11 is just 1 or 2 red bars. 13 of course I get nothing. Come on this is stupid. I only live about 5 miles from the ESB yet I see people here from NJ able to get better reception. If improving reception causes more multipath then I don't see this as progress. If multipath is such a problem maybe they should have just left the analog the way it was. Yes analog is not as clear but when I tune to those same stations at least I have a picture and sound and I am not staring at a black screen with a one to two bar signal meter.


----------



## reddice

I know what you are saying BrooklynGal. It seems that they may have improved reception for people living in New Jersey but they made the reception go down the crapper for people who live in Brooklyn.


Thank goodness I get most of my HD local stations on Dish Network. All except 9 and 13. If I did not have satellite TV and just relied on OTA reception I would be really peeved. By now my antenna would have been smatched up into a million peaces by a hammer over shear frustration trying to watch my prime time shows.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14696410
> 
> 
> I know what you are saying BrooklynGal. It seems that they may have improved reception for people living in New Jersey but they made the reception go down the crapper for people who live in Brooklyn.



I still can't get 5.1.


----------



## reddice

With analog my uncle is able to pick up the NYC stations OTA with a roof antenna all the way from is house in Eastern Pennsylvania which is about 80 or more miles away. With digital and its all or nothing it really is nothing even when you only live a few miles away from the ESB.


I said it once and I will say it again. NYC OTA digital reception is pathetic at best. I feel sorry for all of those poor saps who rely on OTA reception. I am just tired of scanning through all the channels that I use to get fine before Wednesday but now all I get is a black screen.


----------



## raj2001

I live about 20 miles from Eastern PA and I can get all of the analog channels with a high gain antenna.


The problem you face in the city are the large numbers of buildings which will give you strong multipath reflections.


Outside of the city, there isn't really that much of anything to reflect, and being far away from the transmitter the reflections just aren't that strong.


It's not the TV stations fault, just the laws of physics, and the way 8VSB is more susceptible to multipath.


Some like WNET-DT 13 have severely reduced power, partially because of the attacks of 9/11. They are barely a blip here and I have never gotten a lock on them.


----------



## reddice

Multipath was never really a problem with analog signal. Yes you did get ghosting but unlike digital at least you get a picture. Not a great one but still a picture. Digital you just get a few blocks and then nothing.


I think if 9/11 never happened then we would all be getting great digital reception. The ESB is a old building with a old antenna. All the NYC radio stations are on there and also the TV stations. It is overloaded. What about the 4 Times Square building. Don't they use that antenna for anything. It is much newer.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14700025
> 
> 
> Multipath was never really a problem with analog signal. Yes you did get ghosting but unlike digital at least you get a picture. Not a great one but still a picture. Digital you just get a few blocks and then nothing.
> 
> 
> I think if 9/11 never happened then we would all be getting great digital reception. The ESB is a old building with a old antenna. All the NYC radio stations are on there and also the TV stations. It is overloaded. What about the 4 Times Square building. Don't they use that antenna for anything. It is much newer.



Disagree!


First, I do not have line-of-sight to the Empire State Building and the majority of the over-the-air reception I have is by way of multipath.


I'd rather deal with digital multipath than the horrors of ghosting with analogue.


It's a pain, but I am able to find sweet spots where to place my indoor Silver Sensor antenna. Evenutally, I do find steady and strong signals.


Yes, the Empire State Building is old - it opened May 1, 1931.


The antennas for digital transmission are new and many analogue stations have relatively new equipment.


There's a good reason that the Conde Nast Building is not being used as a primary facility - it's lower than the Empire State Building. This is only an approximation - but the top of the Conde Nast mast is the height of the bottom of the Empire States'.


Here's a case where size does count!!!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14700025
> 
> 
> Multipath was never really a problem with analog signal. Yes you did get ghosting but unlike digital at least you get a picture. Not a great one but still a picture. Digital you just get a few blocks and then nothing.
> 
> 
> I think if 9/11 never happened then we would all be getting great digital reception. The ESB is a old building with a old antenna. All the NYC radio stations are on there and also the TV stations. It is overloaded. What about the 4 Times Square building. Don't they use that antenna for anything. It is much newer.



I believe that at least a directional indoor antenna would work better, such as the silver sensor. Outside would of course be better.


The problem is not gain. Playing the "gain game" will get you nowhere. You need directivity to null out multipath.


Maybe you also need an attenuator to reduce the overly strong signals. I have a serious problem with WMBC analog 63, because they overload my pre-amp. The CM4228 nulls them out enough so that the preamp isn't overloaded, or at least not overloaded to the point where distant stations suffer.


Those of us out here in the sticks actually do have a better chance of reception because we use outdoor antennas mounted up high. We have the space and the land.


If it's one thing I've learned over the years is that there are a lot of variables in TV reception.


----------



## craig372

I am near downtown Brooklyn. For the past few days, my reception has disappeared on 2.x, 4.x (used to be strongest, now spotty at best), 7.x, 9.x, 11.x, and 13.x (well, I have only on rare occasions received this - probably when they turned up power temporarily).


I have seen others report improved signals. It seems that, as back in early August, they have improved the main ESB antenna, but turned off (or reduced power to) the 'fill-in antenna' for Brooklyn. Does anyone know if this is true and, if so, when the fill-in antenna will be working again?


It amazes me that there is not some widespread official information about the broadcast antenna work being done. I suspect there are a lot of people checking out digital OTA reception these days and that they are getting very frustrated when the signal comes and goes. People are probably giving up or wasting time and money messing with antennas, cables, etc. when the real problem may just be the broadcast antenna.


----------



## R.F. Burns

For those who have problems receiving channel 13. This is info from their web site;


Please note: Some viewers may still have trouble receiving Thirteen DTV before February 17, 2009 - even with a dual-antenna and a converter box. This is due to the reduced-power transmitter Thirteen has been using since the destruction of the World Trade Center. If you cannot receive Thirteen DTV, you can watch the non-digital Channel Thirteen on an old-style analog television set, or by using a converter box with an analog pass-through feature, until February 17, 2009, when Thirteen will switch to a high-power DTV transmitter that will reach everyone in the viewing area.


----------



## reddice

What I tried yesterday afternoon and it worked was I hooked up my cable line going into my cable modem to my TV. Changed it to cable mode and did a scan and it found a bunch of channels. I had all of my HD local channels including the analog ones and a few HD channels like CNN. The problem is that I can't get online when it is hooked up. Is their a splitter you can get so you can hook up the cable line to your TV and your cable modem. It sure beats trying to get the pitiful reception with a antenna.


----------



## mokomok

That's an easy one, and it's the solution I'm using until I can get better reception. Get a 1-in 2-out splitter with one side unity gain (0 dB loss) and the other side no more than -10dB loss. Plug the no-loss leg into your TV and plug the -10dB leg into your modem. Cable modems usually fare better with slightly attenuated signal strength, but your QAM receiver in your TV won't. That's pretty much it.


----------



## Skyeclad

Anybody else experiencing no signal for WLIW and WEDW? On the positive note, 2,4,5,7,9 and 11 are coming in better.


----------



## reddice

4 and 5 are a bit better today. 7 is still horrible. Keeps dropping out and pixelating. 2, 9 and 11 I still only get 2 red bars. I wonder if 7, 11 and 13 will be better when they move to high VHF. Is high VHF better at combating multipathing than UHF?


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/14703084
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Please note: Some viewers may still have trouble receiving Thirteen DTV before February 17, 2009 ....-



I'm not going to fret much over not picking up one or two channels until 6 months after Feb 17, 2009. We are used to a certain level of service that has been provided to our area since the 1950's. All the changes will result in alot of tweaking and tuning on both ends. What works today may not work a year from now. I expect most of the bugs to be shaken out six months after cut over day.


----------



## R.F. Burns

For those using splitters, I've had an interesting experience which might prove helpful to youo. I had been using a Radio Shack splitter and another one which claimed 3.5 DB loss per port. I replaced them with a Blonder Tongue SUV-2 and where once I could receive channel 2 with a rather weak vulnerable signal (it would pixilate at times. The signal meter was at half full or lower), It is now showing a very strong signal strength indication and channel 13 which had at its best, 1 bar on the signal strength meter and dropped out frequently, is now showing half strength on channel 13 and the signal never drops out. I have one other splitter in the system and will replace that one with a Blonder Tongue unit as well.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14710103
> 
> 
> 4 and 5 are a bit better today. 7 is still horrible. Keeps dropping out and pixelating. 2, 9 and 11 I still only get 2 red bars. I wonder if 7, 11 and 13 will be better when they move to high VHF. Is high VHF better at combating multipathing than UHF?



As many have pointed out, your problem really may be multipath. I am also located in a area with lot of buildings (although lowrise - 2 storied apartments) and trees. Yes, I am in a second floor apartment, which helps me a little bit, but I have seen that in my situation rabbit ears and traditional UHF loop antenna really doesn't cut it. I am getting excellent and reliable reception for the last 1.5 yr from NY OTA first using Terk HDTVa (zenith silver sensor clone with preamp, when I was 25 miles from NY) and now with a DB2 clone (33 miles from NY) without preamp (both indoor). I get all the NY channels without any breakup and hiccups. Of course I don't get WNET-DT and for WMBC and I have to rotate the antenna a little bit. But all the other stations 2,4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 25, 31, 41, 47, 50, 58, 63, 68 come with the antenna pointed towards ESB. Yes I have experimented a lot with the position and found an optimum position. But I feel lot of problems with multipath can be solved using a good antenna. I recommend using DB4/CM4221 for indoor or if it's too big for you than DB2/Eagle Aspen is also quite good. Both these antenna can be bought in within the price range of $25-$40 and can easily be returned to amazon if they don't work. To prove that multipath also haunts me, here is one incident: I built the youtube 4-bay bowtie coat hanger antenna (basically CM4221 clone without the reflector). Although the results were better than a traditional UHF loop antenna, there were lot of dropouts whenever somebody walked inside the room or if there were strong winds passing by. Also it was not reliable enough and I could see the multipath in action by looking at the signal meter (signal strength fluctuate like hell). This is the reason I decided to pay up for the Eagle Aspen DB2 clone with the reflector (although I spent quite a lot of money buidling the coat hanger antenna and can build quite a lot of antenna with the raw material I have). Terk HDTVi/HDTVa or Zenith Silver Sensor are good too, but they are too much directional for my taste. I got frustrated because of their directional sensitivity.


----------



## Falcon_77

Has there been any press about the FCC DTV Road Show coming to New York on Saturday?

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-284629A1.pdf 


Here is a report from the San Francisco stop:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14701132


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14710103
> 
> 
> 4 and 5 are a bit better today. 7 is still horrible. Keeps dropping out and pixelating. 2, 9 and 11 I still only get 2 red bars. I wonder if 7, 11 and 13 will be better when they move to high VHF. Is high VHF better at combating multipathing than UHF?



I expect the answer is yes and no. As I understand it, VHF does not reflect as easily as UHF. However, it is hard to get indoor antennas that are directional, which means that it is harder to correct for multi-path that does exist. Also, VHF signal strengths are likely to be weaker w/o line of sight to the towers (since they don't reflect as well). In the city tests I have done UHF has fared much better than VHF on the analog side, but I haven't had the chance to test urban VHF DTV reception yet. Of course, most big cities don't have much room in 7-13 while analog remains.


It's going to be interesting to see how the top ABC 7's perform across the country in urban settings (e.g., NYC, LA, & Chicago).


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14715555
> 
> 
> I expect the answer is yes and no. As I understand it, VHF does not reflect as easily as UHF. However, it is hard to get indoor antennas that are directional, which means that it is harder to correct for multi-path that does exist. Also, VHF signal strengths are likely to be weaker w/o line of sight to the towers (since they don't reflect as well). In the city tests I have done UHF has fared much better than VHF on the analog side, but I haven't had the chance to test urban VHF DTV reception yet. Of course, most big cities don't have much room in 7-13 while analog remains.
> 
> 
> It's going to be interesting to see how the top ABC 7's perform across the country in urban settings (e.g., NYC, LA, & Chicago).




Falcon -


I live in mid-town Manhattan, just filled with multipath.


Am using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna - highly, highly directional -

just the slightest realignment changes reception tremendously.


With the Silver Sensor, can pick up analogue channels 7, 9, 11 and 13 -

expect and hope that when 7, 11 and 13 go digital VHF, I'll be in good shape.


But one never knows!


----------



## cheerful

I have really bad reception of WNBC 4.1, no matter where I point the antenna to. Other channels are not great but ok. It seems to be better if I stands right next to the antenna.


It used to be good. It changed after I got a replacement TV last month, though I don't want WNBC other than football. Is this a problem of the TV? Anyone else has the same problem?


Thanks!


----------



## SnellKrell

I'm sure it's not your TV.


Work was recently done on the Combiner antenna on the Empire State Building, and while many have seen improvements to their reception, I, as others, have experienced

problems. Mine have been specifically with 4 and 11.


I use an indoor antenna, and for many years had been fine using the "sweet spot" location that gave me more than adequate reception for 2,4,5,7,9 and 11. 13 was always a "no go" for me.


After the mentioned work on the ESB, it took me about a half-hour to find a new place.


Big, big comprimise!!!


Strongest reception I've ever had for 2,7,9 and 13.


Barely decent reception for 4 and 5 - 11 is finally where it had been.


God only knows what I'll get come 2/18/09!


Be patient - some digital reception can drive you crazy!


----------



## jerryyeti

Ever since I got an HDTV last year, the signal has been great for all the main channels: 2 4 5 7 9 11 13. Around Friday or so, channels 5, 9 & 11 suddenly stopped appearing altogether -even if I manually input those channels. The rest still work perfectly. Could this be something wonky with signal source, signal reception, or my tv? Both those channels went from perfect to GONE overnight. Luckily the Giants game was on CBS Sunday!


Another thing I noticed is that before when I manually typed in 1-4 for NBC I got a different channel. Since Friday though, that quirk has disappeared as well.


Hoping to have those channels back!


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14715630
> 
> 
> Am using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna - highly, highly directional -
> 
> just the slightest realignment changes reception tremendously.



Which tuner are you using? Is it the DirecTV AM21?


I've pulled DTV signals from multi-path so bad as to be unwatchable (at least on nearby analog channels), but am wondering how well the AM21 performs. I used an On-Air GT in such tests.


----------



## SnellKrell

Falcon -


I have my AM21 and the tuner in my 2-year old Sharp LCD connected to a 2-way splitter, fed by a Silver Sensor indoor antenna.



The Sharp's tuner puts the AM21 away!


I was really surprised, I had expected that the AM21 being newer would have a more sensitive chip - it doesn't!!!!


----------



## Skyeclad

Channel 4.1 has a really awful signal quality tonight. Looks like I'll have to record Heroes on Saturday.


----------



## tahoejoe

For the first time, I am getting "viewable" reception on all the major networks (2-11). 13 is the only major channel I am not receiving. Channel surfed for about 15 minutes and dropouts were minimal or non-existent.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/14710644
> 
> 
> I'm not going to fret much over not picking up one or two channels until 6 months after Feb 17, 2009. We are used to a certain level of service that has been provided to our area since the 1950's. All the changes will result in alot of tweaking and tuning on both ends. What works today may not work a year from now. I expect most of the bugs to be shaken out six months after cut over day.



And the real transition will actually be when the freedom tower is built.


----------



## raj2001

Has NJN abandoned HD?


Tuning to WNJN-DT on 50-5 shows only a blank channel.


On WNJB-DT there is no NJN HD subchannel. The other subs are there.


I guess I'll have to go back to watching WNET on cable for my PBS HD fix.


----------



## Trip in VA

I hear that NJN is changing their layout to 50-1 HD (when available) and 50-2 SD sometime in the next few months, so this is probably leading up to it.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/14718552
> 
> 
> Channel 4.1 has a really awful signal quality tonight. Looks like I'll have to record Heroes on Saturday.



4-1 is the same for me as always. Strongest of all the NYC channels.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerryyeti* /forum/post/14717421
> 
> 
> Ever since I got an HDTV last year, the signal has been great for all the main channels: 2 4 5 7 9 11 13. Around Friday or so, channels 5, 9 & 11 suddenly stopped appearing altogether -even if I manually input those channels. The rest still work perfectly. Could this be something wonky with signal source, signal reception, or my tv? Both those channels went from perfect to GONE overnight. Luckily the Giants game was on CBS Sunday!



Could be. I had some issues with 9 and 11 over the weekend as well.


5 came in briefly a couple nights ago as well. Signal is there, but a lock is elusive. Even WNET-DT shows up with some signal strength. Still waiting to go up the tower to stack/phase my 2nd CM4228, to see if I can pull them in.



> Quote:
> Another thing I noticed is that before when I manually typed in 1-4 for NBC I got a different channel. Since Friday though, that quirk has disappeared as well.
> 
> 
> Hoping to have those channels back!



Pressing 1-4 would get you channel 14 or maybe 4 analog or something else entirely. You need to press channel - sub, so it would be 4-1, not 1-4.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14718934
> 
> 
> I hear that NJN is changing their layout to 50-1 HD (when available) and 50-2 SD sometime in the next few months, so this is probably leading up to it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That would make sense.


Here's the funny thing - apparently they haven't told anyone. TiVo still has guide data for them, up until 14 days or so (or how much TiVo has).


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14718893
> 
> 
> And the real transition will actually be when the freedom tower is built.



And with the pace that construction is going, it'll be another 5 years before it's complete.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/14719026
> 
> 
> And with the pace that construction is going, it'll be another 5 years before it's complete.



I see you're an optimist.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14718992
> 
> 
> That would make sense.
> 
> 
> Here's the funny thing - apparently they haven't told anyone. TiVo still has guide data for them, up until 14 days or so (or how much TiVo has).



I gave up on either watching or recording ANYTHING of the NJN HD's a few years ago...as either the guide data wouldn't be correct...or the picture would be so crappy from the numerous multicasts that were running at the same time as the HD feed.


I have VERY fond memories of when NJN-HD used to run the HD Loops of the flyby's/flyovers of the Italian/Irish/Insert Countryside here........


Seems like AGES ago.....whither that programming/footage now?


----------



## Skyeclad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14718939
> 
> 
> 4-1 is the same for me as always. Strongest of all the NYC channels.



I had a great signal for almost all my channels except for WLIW21 and WEDW49(which I lost completely this week) until 9pm. Then the signal strength remained high but the quality dropped so much that I couldn't keep a reliable lock. I was recording on 2 other channels so I couldn't fine tune the rotator to see if I couldn't improve 4.1 without sacrificing all other channels. If the signal strength is high could I be having multipath problems 50 miles from the ESB on one channel?


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14720070
> 
> 
> I see you're an optimist.



Yeah, he's so much of an optimist that he thinks by that time he'll also be driving the GM's Range Extended Electric Car, the Chevy Volt to the freedom tower.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/14720154
> 
> 
> I gave up on either watching or recording ANYTHING of the NJN HD's a few years ago...as either the guide data wouldn't be correct...or the picture would be so crappy from the numerous multicasts that were running at the same time as the HD feed.
> 
> 
> I have VERY fond memories of when NJN-HD used to run the HD Loops of the flyby's/flyovers of the Italian/Irish/Insert Countryside here........
> 
> 
> Seems like AGES ago.....whither that programming/footage now?



I used to watch it sometimes when we lived in Wayne, NJ. Sometimes it would have macroblocking and other compression artifacts but at times it wasn't all that bad.


None of the cable systems carried NJN HD though. They all carried WNET.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/14720821
> 
> 
> Yeah, he's so much of an optimist that he thinks by that time he'll also be driving the GM's Range Extended Electric Car, the Chevy Volt to the freedom tower.



Nah. I'm still waiting for the flying cars that we were promised.


----------



## BrooklynGal

Tonight 2 is the "best" & it's pretty awful! broken sound & a fragmented picture which breaks up & disappears. Often I can't receive 2 reliably, but when I do lock it in, it's better than this. I am also receiving a picture without sound on 11 & 25. & that's all folks! I'm not receiving anything else & show very low/ no reception on all channels except 2,11, & 25.


This is after moving the antenna around, re-scanning, of course also adjusting my UFO to all 12 positions while attempting to get reception. I don't know what they're doing, or whether they think they are finished tweaking. If any advertisers or media executives are lurking here, this message is for you: the OTA viewing audience in South Bklyn is TV-less for days. If you don't intend to provide us with any service after February, rethink your "advertising geared to Seniors" budget -- our budget doesn't stretch to cable.


----------



## raj2001

Last night we had a nice tropo opening and I was able to get WCAU-DT and KYW-DT pretty clear and strong. I also got a few others. Even WBNG analog was coming in.


All of the NYC stations (except WLIW) were coming in pretty strong. I even got WNYW-DT. Didn't check this morning but I'm almost certain it's gone by now.


----------



## reddice

Brooklyn reception use to be good until last Wednesday. I can only get 4 and 5 good. 7 is still yellow and sometimes it just breaks up. 11 I use to get good on the 10 position UFO antenna but now it just breaks up a lot on that position. 2 and 9 I can't get even get a blimp.


----------



## reddice

I bet that most of you that get good reception are using a outdoor antenna. A outdoor antenna is out of the question because new windows were put in and I can't drill any holes. Also I live so close to the ESB I should not need a outdoor antenna if the reception was not so pathetic and weak.


----------



## rothe

Reddice -- I've been seeing your posts over the last several days, and I can assure you that those of us in the fringe areas are sympathetic to your problems. I'm only 35 miles out, but I have some of my own multipath issues to deal with, plus signal overload from a nearby FM station, and a weird radio-wave black-hole effect from being very near the ocean. Ultimately, careful placement and aiming of a moderately high-gain, directional antenna got me over the hump.


Still, I can appreciate the limitations of a Brooklyn apartment as far as antenna choices and placement go. One thing I'm curious about is exactly what make and model antenna you're using. From what I've seen, most of those "UFO" antennas are not nearly as directional as you might need.


Reply with that antenna's make and model and we'll take it from there.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14732562
> 
> 
> I bet that most of you that get good reception are using a outdoor antenna. A outdoor antenna is out of the question because new windows were put in and I can't drill any holes. Also I live so close to the ESB I should not need a outdoor antenna if the reception was not so pathetic and weak.



Oh no that is not true!!!


The signals are strong. Very strong in fact. They are just coming at your receiver from a few different directions, and the reflections are also strong, hence the problem with multipath.


----------



## JoeWS

FWIW, for the past week or so, reception of the NYC channels has been great. I am SW of the city about 62 miles out in Burlington County. WHile reception was unreliable in recent weeks, over the past 7 - 10 days all major channels have been very consistent: CBS2, NBC4, ABC7, MY9, CW11, WNYE25, ION31, and WMBC63. Only Fox5 on channel 44 is a no show due to the station in Atlantic City. Is the work on the ESB complete, or can we expect more fluctuations in signal prior to Feb09?


----------



## raj2001

There are some channel changes and moving around on Feb 09. 7 will be moving to physical 7, 11 to physical 11, 13 to physical 13, 2 to 33, and I believe 8 will be moving to 4 times square.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, I've heard that 8's move to the Conde Nast Buidling (4 Times Square) has been approved.


----------



## Straphanger

What exactly is on channel 8 now?


----------



## Trip in VA

NJN. PBS for New Jersey.


- Trip


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else record "Lipstick Jungle" off of OTA NBC on Weds night? My wife's recording was all mucked up...pixelation, audio dropouts...yet my Heroes recording from Monday night was fine...and my Office recording last night was fine....and all my other local OTA (2-1/5-1/7-1) recordings this week...were...fine! She's convinced that I'm ruining HER recordings since all of MINE were fine off of WNBC-DT this week!


Using a D* HR20 to record local OTA .....


TIA


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, it appears the Combiner is down again - and 7 has reverted to the backup at 4 Time Square.


Strange, any planned big change is usually done overngiht.


Wonder what we will now have in store for us????


Stay tuned, that is if you can tune-in!


----------



## jpru34

I can confirm the Combiner is down again as I work a few blocks from the ESB. Why are they doing this????


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, we're back kind of.


7 hasn't switched back yet and 13 has disappeared!


What next????


----------



## jpru34

Snell - Are you currently seeing the Combiner Up? I do not see it as of 10:45 AM and I have clear unostructed view from my office window.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's 10:48, and as I'm typing, I'm scanning channels:


I'm getting from the Combiner O-T-A: 2, 4, 11, 13.


7 appears to still be on 4 Times Square.


----------



## rothe

So Reddice, you never did get back to me about that antenna that you're using. No matter. Just because I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to gather some facts and try to provide some analysis and a solution for you. Other folks in Brooklyn and similar strong signal areas might do well to follow along.


I'm convinced that your problems are NOT caused by the new broadcast antennas, but rather that they have more to do with your particular reception conditions. If so, it's only going to get better if YOU take action. Complaining on this forum or to the broadcasters is not going to help.



I saw an earlier post from you that said that you were using a Radio Shack "UFO" style antenna, and I found this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2131034 


So I'm assuming that's what you're using. For the rest of you, note that Radio Shack claims that this antenna has some degree of directionality, and note that it's amplified with a 12-position (mechanical or electronic?) rotator. That would allow someone to rotate it in 30 degree increments. Consider that most highly directional antennas typically require very long boom lengths to get a reasonably directional pattern, so I'm skeptical that this antenna does much to reduce the multipath signal strength to the sides and rear of where it's aimed. You can study the antenna patterns at the following sites to get a feel for that:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html 

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html 

(click on some of the links on that page to see patterns for specific antennas)



Next, I decided to plug your zip code into both tvfool.com and fmfool.com. Some of what I found probably won't surprise you. You're in a very strong signal area with lots of multipath. So you don't need a big, high-gain, roof-mounted antenna. You knew that. But you also probably don't need an amplified antenna either, and I suspect that you haven't considered that. Judging from some of your posts, I also suspect that you're not aware that amplifiers can be detrimental to reception if you're already in a very strong signal area. Cheap amplifiers can be overloaded very easily, and the end result might very well be no usable signal on one or even all channels. PLEASE read this:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/g....html#overload 


Now this leads to another issue that you probably didn't consider: according to fmfool.com, you have an FM radio station that's very literally overwhelming you, broadcasting on 91.5Mhz. It's so strong that I have absolutely no doubt that it's overloading the amplifier in your Radio Shack amplified antenna, and that overloaded amplifier may very well be affecting reception for every one of the TV stations that you're trying to receive.


The solution that I'm going to propose is multifaceted, and I expect that you'll have to do most or all of these things to solve your reception problems:


1) dump that Radio Shack antenna. I'd opt for a Zenith Silver Sensor or one of the clones made by Terk, Phillips or Channel Master. Take a look at the reception pattern here

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html 


and you can bet that it's probably more directional than the RS unit that you're using now. Also, note that it's NOT amplified.


2) Add a tunable FM trap to eliminate any possibility of tuner overload from that FM station. Forget the one that Radio Shack sells - get something from a name-brand antenna supplier like Winegard or Channel Master. There are plenty of good sources, but you might check out this page for examples:

http://www.solidsignal.com/cat_displ...a%20FM%20Traps 


3) You might also need to add an attenuator to LOWER the signal strength coming into your tuner. That same page that I referenced immediately above includes one from Winegard. I'd save this as a last resort, because I think that you'll probably be fine just by changing from that semi-directional, amplified antenna to a more directional, non-amplified one with a decent trap.






I hope you're not so fed up with this whole effort that you're not willing to try these solutions. They're certainly cheaper than a monthly cable hookup. Good luck. Let us know how you make out.


----------



## reddice

I was thinking about getting the Silver Sensor however it is UHF only and channels 7, 11 and 13 are moving to high VHF so after February it won't do me any good in picking up those channels. If they made a Silver Sensor with the VHF antennas too then I would pick one up.


You say that channel 7 is running off the Conde Nast Buidling (4 Times Square). I am now getting channel 7 the strongest with four green bars. Unless they are back on the Empire State Building it is stronger for now.


----------



## SnellKrell

First, I have a Silver Sensor, and for what it's worth, I can pickup analogue 7, 11 and 13with it - albeit, a lot of ghosting and snow. I figure with digital, it should be fine.


Next, from what I can tell with my patterns of "signal strength," 7 hasn't moved back to ESB as of yet.


----------



## reddice

Maybe I will try connecting my antenna to the FM trap. I know that because of 91.5 it is hard to tune in stations like 89.5, 89.9, 92.3 and 93.1 because it is so strong. I am even able to get 91.5 on the shortwave band. Which is the best FM trap to get. It is worth a shot and if it does not help much I will be only wasting about $20.


----------



## rothe

There are a number of companies that make clones of the Silver Sensor. From what I saw today, Terk has one that includes rabbit ears for VHF. But you're so close to the ESB that you might actually get adequate signal strength from a UHF only version of the Silver Sensor. In fact, the rabbit ears of the Terk version of this antenna might not be directional enough to overcome your multipath problems. So I would actually try the UHF only version of the Silver Sensor first.


I doubt that an FM trap will do you much good with your current antenna. What you really need to do is install it after the antenna and before any amplifier. If I understand that Radio Shack antenna that you have, it does not have any provisions for inserting a trap before its built-in amplifier. So you're still going to be overloading that amplifier. Try it anyway. You're still going to need it when you switch to an unamplified antenna.


And here's another thought: how are you getting your satellite signal? Is the dish mounted on the side of your apartment and the cable going into the side of the building, or is it roof mounted and shared among your neighbors? The reason I ask is because I saw a number of UHF/VHF antenna mounts that attach to existing satellite dish mounts. Check that Solid Signal web site that I referenced earlier. If you can get the right orientation with a small, directional outdoor antenna, you can combine the satellite and OTA antenna leads on one cable and you're done!


----------



## R.F. Burns

The Radio Shack mast mounted pre amp has a very effective FM notch filter.


----------



## reddice

I tried the Terk antenna. That was the first antenna I bought. It is not amplified and reception is about the same with that one. I ended up giving it to my mother.


----------



## Falcon_77

Is anyone going to this event?

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-285622A1.pdf 


I see they had one on Friday night as well, in Brooklyn.



> Quote:
> WHEN: September 27, 10:30 AM to 11:30 AM
> 
> WHERE: Forest Hills Library
> 
> Auditorium
> 
> 108-19 71 Avenue, Forest Hills
> 
> Queens,, NY, 11375
> 
> Co-Sponsor: Univision Communications, Inc



Here is a link to an interview with Commissioner Adelstein on WNBC:

http://video.wnbc.com/player/?id=0#videoid=701283 


He mentioned antenna concerns, which have largely been ignored, outside of forums such as AVS.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14747937
> 
> 
> I tried the Terk antenna. That was the first antenna I bought. It is not amplified and reception is about the same with that one. I ended up giving it to my mother.



WHICH Terk antenna? There are two that look just like a Silver Sensor. One is amplified and the other isn't. They also have a number of others that aren't nearly so directional:

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/s...ductId=&brand= 


And did you try it with a trap inline before your tuner?


Again, you want an unamplified directional antenna to be used with a high-quality FM trap. And MAYBE an attenuator.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/14747744
> 
> 
> The Radio Shack mast mounted pre amp has a very effective FM notch filter.



He doesn't need a preamp. His signals are too strong and they'll probably overwhelm a preamp.


----------



## dagger666

i'm now getting channel 13-01 - 03 in ny on channel 61 14 miles from nyc.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/14749907
> 
> 
> i'm now getting channel 13-01 - 03 in ny on channel 61 14 miles from nyc.



The new Combiner has made 13 (61) viewable for the first time, and not only that, it has a more stable signal for me than 4 (28), previously my most reliable station - now my worst from the ESB.


I'm dealing with loads of multipath and strange reception!


----------



## R.F. Burns

And now 25 miles from Empire I can no longer receive WNET HD. The more I see whats happening with HDTV the more I think of HD Radio. The are both being treated like experimental systems. Not a great way to attract viewers who aren't accustomed to constant outages like these.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT is now back on the ESB.


----------



## raj2001

When did they move?


----------



## SnellKrell

When I got home late yesterday afternoon, I did a scan and the station's

"signal strength" on my receiver was back up to normal.


----------



## reddice

Well Channel 7 is still strong. 4 green bars which sometimes goes to 3 bars. 5 is also strong with 4 green bars. 4 is weaker with just 3 bars and some dropouts. I still can't 9 and 11 is very weak.


As for the poster who said that I might be getting too strong of a signal you are wrong. I tried many antennas including a cheap old antenna from the 1970's which is weak and with that the reception was worse. If you would read the other posts you can see that since two weeks ago reception in Brooklyn got worse than it use to be. I can see that channel 7 is running better but I use to have no problems getting 9 and 11.


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else catch the 6 oclock hour of NBC's AM show? They had a little piece on OTA tuners getting viewers ready for the "digital" signals that are coming and the analog signals that are going away. What STILL amazes me....is that they can't "dumb down" the conversation for those that need it....IOW's, neither anchor stated, "Hey stupid, if you are watching us right now on a TV with an antenna instead of cable or satellite" THIS AFFECTS YOU! If you're watching this on satellite or cable/fios, you're good to go!


All the digital vs analog, ATSC vs NTSC, rabbit ear antenna vs digital antenna lingo HAS to overwhelm those folks who NEED TO KNOW about this but just can't grasp it (i.e. the elderly, the poor etc...).


Or maybe it's just me....


I'll have to check to see if it's up on their website.


----------



## R.F. Burns

What I don't understand is that these digital signals have been granted their own spectrum unlike HD radio and yet enough of them have coverage issues or will be moving to new frequencies in February. So many people have purchased HD TV's already and they must be confused by the poor signal being supplied by many of the stations. Stations are operating on certain frequencies currently but that will change in February. I'm wondering whether stations will have the same footprint on February 18th, that they will have had on the 17th.


----------



## craig372

At 3 am near downtown Brooklyn,


2.x,4.x,7.x,9.x,and 11.x are down (0 signal);

5.x is (as usual) around 70;

21.x, 25.x, 47.x (and some other odd channels I don't recall right now) are around 70; AND

13.x is at 87 (better than I have ever noticed for ANY digital OTA channels)!


I am sure 13.x must just be doing some testing with the power up, but it is nice to know that I should be good to go when they keep the power up. It will be interesting to see if the Combiner stations are improved when the power is back up (the last 2 weeks I have been only getting 4.x (fairly consistent), 7.x (marginal), and 11.x (marginal)).


By the way, an earlier detailed and informative post (7396 by James Rothe) blamed Brooklyn reception problems on multipath, FM interference, and signal overload rather than the broadcast antennas. I certainly do have multipath issues (e.g. ghosts with about a 4% shift right on analog channels), but I do not see any evidence of FM interference or signal overload. I probably need to peak my antenna better, but I am also sure that multipath is not the problem with my recent digital reception problems on channels 2.x,7.x,9.x,and 11.x. The reason is simply that the signals were pretty good 2 weeks ago and then suddenly dropped significantly (to below 40) so my tuner could no longer get a lock. There is a lot of building going on in downtown Brooklyn, but I don't think enough to increase the multipath interference overnight







. There are of course many variables in TV reception, but the quality of the broadcast signal is definitely one of the significant ones at the moment. I just wish the broadcasters would provide some live information on expected signal patterns and the status of antenna work (tvfool and antennaweb are ok, but clearly do not keep up with the frequent testing, tweaking, and maintenance changes).


-----


Winegard HD7080P rooftop antenna, Winegard HDP-269 high input pre-amp (to compensate for long cable run).


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/14765329
> 
> 
> What I don't understand is that these digital signals have been granted their own spectrum unlike HD radio and yet enough of them have coverage issues or will be moving to new frequencies in February. So many people have purchased HD TV's already and they must be confused by the poor signal being supplied by many of the stations. Stations are operating on certain frequencies currently but that will change in February. I'm wondering whether stations will have the same footprint on February 18th, that they will have had on the 17th.



They were granted new channels, but some of these new channels had interference issues. That's why, for example, WNYW-DT is no go for me.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craig372* /forum/post/14767477
> 
> 
> I do not see any evidence of FM interference or signal overload.



Oh, come on now! Who are you gonna believe, me or your own eyes?










There are some useful drawings in Channel Master's installation guide of what various types of interference and noise might look like on analog channels. See chapter 11 at this URL:

http://www.channelmasterintl.com/doc...stallation.pdf 


(I've often referred to the analog images as I've been trying to diagnose issues with my HDTV reception. I'd love to know what the FCC expects us to do once these very visible indicators are eliminated.)


By the way, that's a an awful lot of antenna that you have there for such a nearby location. I'm really surprised that you need so much signal. Not that I'm challenging your decision on that, because it seems that you have put some thought into your efforts, but I'm still curious to hear your rationale for that antenna choice.


----------



## raj2001

That document is probably nostalgic for many! They should update it for the DTV era though...


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14779766
> 
> 
> That document is probably nostalgic for many! They should update it for the DTV era though...



Well, yes and no. The installation guidelines really wouldn't have changed. But the troubleshooting section is what's about to be rendered irrelevant.


What I mentioned the other day - basically saying that you can look at the picture of an analog channel and tell a great deal about signal strength, multipath, RF and FM interference, etc - is all going to be taken away from us as troubleshooting clues. What we're left with is a signal strength indicator from our tuner and MAYBE, on certain tuners only, a signal quality indicator. On a home-theater PC, you can also use an error checking/correcting utility like MPEG2Repair to tell you about how many reception errors you're getting - sort of like a signal quality indicator - but the bottom line is that none of the available indicators for HDTV tell us anything about multipath or noise sources in the same way that a good old analog picture would.


----------



## jpru34

I almost always have a very strong signal on this channel but sometimes the picture and/or audio is screwed up anyways. I don't think it is due to my antenna - I think it has something to do with ION. Anyone else ever have problems with this station?


----------



## mw390

Anybody get any weird red static while watching Smallville last night?


----------



## Cueball703

Hi everyone.... I just discovered this site, and BOY!!! do I have questions. I'm sure that my questions have been answered somewhere, but there is so much reading in here that it is becoming too overwhelming for me.


That being said, let me start by introducing myself, and then get to my questions. My name is Steven. I live in Forest Hills, (Queens) NY. I do not own or subscribe to any Cable or Satellite TV services. I just have standard TVs on which I pull in whatever stations come in on the airwaves for free. Also, I still use VCRs. I am now discovering that besides having to prepare for the new DTV signal (to take effect in February of 2009), I will also have to get myself new Recorder devices (so that I can do Timer Recordings of my favorite programs when I am away from home).


Recently I purchased 2 Digital Converter boxes for the TVs that I currently have. I have not hooked them up yet. I also purchased myself 1 new TV set that has an ATSC tuner built in to it. It is a Sansui DTV1900 19 Inch Color Digital TV. I have tested this TV out, and it seems to be OK. It played all of the Analog stations that I still currently receive. It also had a setting for me to receive the Digital stations (which are now playing concurrently with the Analog signals). When I hit the button on my remote control to do this, all I could say was WOW!!!!!!!! The picture reception was noticeably better. I also noticed that the stations were defined differently... instead of stations like 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, etc... there were the same stations, but they were listed as sub channels --- 2 01, 2 02, 4 01, 4 02 4 04, 5 01, 7 01, etc...


Here is the first problem that I have encountered. The picture would occasionally freeze up or break up, and then the TV screen would go blank and say "No Signal." It would be fine when I switched back to my Anaolg signal. I went to a local Circuit City store, and asked them what I could do about this. The sales clerk told me that I would need to get a new Antenna. I told him that I currently use a Rabbit Ears antenna, and that I can not get an outdoor antenna (I live in an Apartment building, and Roof Antenna are prohibitted as per the Building/Co-Op Management). The sales clerk said that he had one Antenna available for me... RCA ANT1500 at $60. He assured me that this antenna will pick up the signal that my Rabbit Ears antenna can not. Well, I did a little search on the Internet for this Antenna, and first off, I found it for almost half the price that Circuit City is asking. Next, I found a few personal reviews for this antenna, and they all shared the same/similar thoughts on this particular antenna.... They all said that there was no real noticeable difference in their reception, and that the signal still broke up 3 to 4 times within a 30 minute period.


I've been reading some of the posts here (I've gone back about 10 pages), and some of you have referred to signal strengths being Red or Green or Yellow. What does this mean??? Also, where are you seeing this? My TV doesn't show me any Signal Strength. It either shows a picture, or it says No Signal.


Another question I have is, what indoor Antennas are there that I can purchase (preferably at a cheap price)? Please... Name specific models/brands, and any first hand knowledge that you may have of it.


Another problem I already forsee is, I am going to have to purchase me a DVD/DVR player/Recorder. I am finding out (from the different manufacturers) that they don't currently have (or make) a VCR that will be able to do Timer Recording of programs. I have never recorded in DVD/DVR format, so I am really very ignorant when it comes to this. There are so many different formats out there (DVR, DVR-, DVR+, DVRW, DV-RW, etc...), and they say that some of these are not comaptable on other players, that I'm not sure what I would need to look for. Also, I would definitely need a disc that I could record over (constantly, as I tape a daily Soap Opera, which I do not need to keep once I've watch it). Any advice would be appreciated....


Please e-mail me at [email protected]


----------



## a72849

Yes, WPXN-DT channel 31-1~4 had audio problems today (Oct 4th) when broadcasting MASH. The sound alternated loud and soft many times per second - like a warble.


----------



## dagger666

it's sunday at 4:16 AM and when i turned my tv on channels 2,4,9,11,21 had their digital feeds off. Funny part channel 5 still had channel 9 stuff on 05-02 but both 09-01,02 were no single.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a72849* /forum/post/14801815
> 
> 
> Yes, WPXN-DT channel 31-1~4 had audio problems today (Oct 4th) when broadcasting MASH. The sound alternated loud and soft many times per second - like a warble.



oh so it wasn't just me then, i thought it was a coming storm or them dam planes flying over. In rain they fly over my house for JFK, screws with reception all the time. I must say I'm happy to leave analog behind and welcome digital broadcasting. I like how PBS stations have broken their channels into categories like main channel, children, infomercials and stuff. It will be intresting in the coming year how the big boys use these new avenues of broadcasting.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cueball703* /forum/post/14793985
> 
> 
> Another question I have is, what indoor Antennas are there that I can purchase (preferably at a cheap price)? Please... Name specific models/brands, and any first hand knowledge that you may have of it.



I would suggest checking out EV's Indoor Antenna review, but it will take quite some time to read.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779 


However, you may find that an indoor class antenna is not going to get it done.


For UHF, a CM4221 can be placed indoors with relative ease, but VHF is going to take some luck. Outdoor grade VHF antennas are usually too big to put inside unless you don't mind a very large "ceiling ornament" in the room. Do you have any attic access or does the apartment have a shared antenna?


As for the CEA colors, take them with several grains of salt. I have not found them to be very helpful and in my case showing me as violet (or worse) is simply wrong.

http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/hdtv-antenna-zones.php 


I would suggest checking out TVFool.com instead.


----------



## ANGEL 35

Does any one know if they are giving out the new 8500 cable boxs at 23st??or 8450??


----------



## niterider31




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a72849* /forum/post/14801815
> 
> 
> Yes, WPXN-DT channel 31-1~4 had audio problems today (Oct 4th) when broadcasting MASH. The sound alternated loud and soft many times per second - like a warble.



wpxn operation is quite a joke. i hear they have no money and basically have interns running the place outside of business hours. they are experimenting with data inside of their tv spectrum which guess what...causes problems with their tv signal! i guess they already figured out no one is watching their programs so why not.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._/ai_n17218612


----------



## raj2001

Is WNYE going to be showing anything in HD, and if so, when? I saw their crawl today about the DTV transition, and it said they would be transmitting some programs in HD.


----------



## Trip in VA

Right now, WNYE is anything but HD. Last I saw, both subchannels were SD at 352x480i. The traffic one had the brightness cranked up so high that the brightest whites were clipping and becoming black.


That may have changed, but it still doesn't speak to their amazing technical setup.


- Trip


----------



## Cueball703




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14803890
> 
> 
> .... However, you may find that an indoor class antenna is not going to get it done.
> 
> 
> For UHF, a CM4221 can be placed indoors with relative ease, but VHF is going to take some luck. Outdoor grade VHF antennas are usually too big to put inside unless you don't mind a very large "ceiling ornament" in the room. Do you have any attic access or does the apartment have a shared antenna?



I live in a 7 story Apartment Building. There is no attic. As for having an Outdoor Antenna, it is NOT permitted in my building (by order of both Building Management and the Co-Op Management).


The only shared antenna that I know of, is that many years ago, the Building Management installed cable, so that any tennant that wishes to subscribe, van be hooked up to it. I am one of those who does NOT wish to subscribe... I'm hardly home long enough to watch regular Network programming, I'm not going to invest $30 - $50 per month for more stations that I'm not going to have time to watch.


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cueball703* /forum/post/14808811
> 
> 
> I live in a 7 story Apartment Building. There is no attic. As for having an Outdoor Antenna, it is NOT permitted in my building (by order of both Building Management and the Co-Op Management).
> 
> 
> The only shared antenna that I know of, is that many years ago, the Building Management installed cable, so that any tennant that wishes to subscribe, van be hooked up to it. I am one of those who does NOT wish to subscribe... I'm hardly home long enough to watch regular Network programming, I'm not going to invest $30 - $50 per month for more stations that I'm not going to have time to watch.



You're just like me. I, too don't subcribe to cable because I hardly watch TV as it is.


I live on the 18th floor Co-op apartment at the Chelsea area of Manhattan. My window faces east and I have a direct line of sight of the Empire State Building (about a half a mile, more or less).


I bought this RCA VHF/UHF non-amplified (can't remember the exact model right now) set-top antenna ($13 at a local K-Mart) and a 12 foot coaxial cable. I have the antenna sitting right at the window. I can recieve DTV channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25, 30, 40, and 68 (my tv a Mitsubishi WS-55511 CRT RPTV with intergrated DTV tuner).


Anyway, can you at least see the Empire State Building from your window?


Also, you might (I'm practically sure of it), have a problem with "multi-path" reception as well. I think getting an "amplified" set-top antenna will do you no good, since you're not that far away from the signal source in the first place.


You will need a very decent UHF antenna (all the NYC DTV stations are using that band for now), or the "Silver Sensor" (and it clones, someone here will give you the exact model name and brand) which is more a directional antenna, which may help with the multi-path problem you may have.


I'm no expert, but someone may chime it with more exact info.




Danny


----------



## moonstar

Are you guys getting NBC and CBS after like 2am through your OTA antennas?


It doesn't happen everyday but let's say 5 days out of a week , my antenna doesn't find any signals from NBC and CBS between 1:30am/2am and 5am/6am.


I also have terrible pixelation on TV, is that what multipath signals do?


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ANGEL 35* /forum/post/14803892
> 
> 
> Does any one know if they are giving out the new 8500 cable boxs at 23st??or 8450??



Here's TWC thread for our area.....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=297592


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14807515
> 
> 
> Right now, WNYE is anything but HD. Last I saw, both subchannels were SD at 352x480i. The traffic one had the brightness cranked up so high that the brightest whites were clipping and becoming black.
> 
> 
> That may have changed, but it still doesn't speak to their amazing technical setup.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well the crawl did say they were going to broadcast some in HD.


DoITT doesn't exactly move at the speed of light, and having dealt with them for a few years (I used to work for the city) I would take the "we're going to broadcast in HD" claim to mean that they would do it sometime later on.


The traffic cams aren't half bad now. They've improved somewhat. What they do need to do is turn off the audio.


----------



## raj2001

By the way I believe WTBY may have gone all digital, and shut off its analog signal early. I don't get their analog anymore and our cable provider says their analog (54) went dark this month. Interestingly enough, the cable co says they don't have a good enough signal to carry it anymore. I can get it just fine OTA and I'm sure the cable co's HAAT is much better than mine.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/14809607
> 
> 
> Are you guys getting NBC and CBS after like 2am through your OTA antennas?
> 
> 
> It doesn't happen everyday but let's say 5 days out of a week , my antenna doesn't find any signals from NBC and CBS between 1:30am/2am and 5am/6am.
> 
> 
> I also have terrible pixelation on TV, is that what multipath signals do?



These days, they are shutting off the digital feeds during those hours. I don't get the analog, so I am not sure whether they are doing it for analog.


If the signal strength fluctuates a lot with picture freezing and lot of pixellation, it usually means multipath. For low signal strength, the signal meter will show low signal strength (e.g. one bar ) without much fluctuation. I may be wrong but this is my experience with multipath when I built the 4-bay CM-4221 clone without reflector. The problem went away when I bought the Eagle Apen DB-2 clone (with the reflector). I am waiting to see how it performs in VHF though after digital switchover. Currently I get analog ABC (channel 7) with unwatchable pictures (only can hear the sound) with the same antenna setup. I don't get 2, 4, 5, 9, 11 analog at all or my TV doesn't detect them.


----------



## halsnook

Re WNBC & WCBS after 1am:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/14810625
> 
> 
> These days, they are shutting off the digital feeds during those hours.



Why is that? Usually for me it's halfway through Conan O'Brien. Very frustrating, as I don't get the analog signal at all.


----------



## StudioTech

I noticed this morning that WCBS-DT was shut off exactly at 12:37am just as the Late Late Show was starting.


----------



## Cueball703




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daniel Perales* /forum/post/14809099
> 
> 
> You're just like me. I, too don't subcribe to cable because I hardly watch TV as it is.
> 
> 
> Anyway, can you at least see the Empire State Building from your window?
> 
> 
> Also, you might (I'm practically sure of it), have a problem with "multi-path" reception as well. I think getting an "amplified" set-top antenna will do you no good, since you're not that far away from the signal source in the first place.
> 
> 
> You will need a very decent UHF antenna (all the NYC DTV stations are using that band for now), or the "Silver Sensor" (and it clones, someone here will give you the exact model name and brand) which is more a directional antenna, which may help with the multi-path problem you may have.
> 
> 
> I'm no expert, but someone may chime it with more exact info.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Danny



No, where I live, I do not have a direct site of The Empire State Building.


----------



## jpru34

This antenna is meant to only receive channels 7-69 (which is all you will need come February) and it works perfectly for me even though I have it installed in my attic (which is less ideal than mounting it on my chimney). I am also using an HDP 269 since I am splitting the signal 2 times b\\c of the way the house was wired. I receive all the digital channels perfectly except 13.1 which breaks up occasionally (but only when it is raining outside).


I hope this information helps others who may be having trouble with their reception.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/14810625
> 
> 
> These days, they are shutting off the digital feeds during those hours. I don't get the analog, so I am not sure whether they are doing it for analog.
> 
> 
> If the signal strength fluctuates a lot with picture freezing and lot of pixellation, it usually means multipath. For low signal strength, the signal meter will show low signal strength (e.g. one bar ) without much fluctuation. I may be wrong but this is my experience with multipath when I built the 4-bay CM-4221 clone without reflector. The problem went away when I bought the Eagle Apen DB-2 clone (with the reflector). I am waiting to see how it performs in VHF though after digital switchover. Currently I get analog ABC (channel 7) with unwatchable pictures (only can hear the sound) with the same antenna setup. I don't get 2, 4, 5, 9, 11 analog at all or my TV doesn't detect them.




Alright, thanks. I wasn't sure if there was anything wrong with my antennas. Yup! That's exactly what happens. so it's perhaps a multipath issue. Is there anything you can do to reduce it? It's cool that you can get an outdoor one. Not an option for me as I don't own the rooftop. Gosh, when they go all digital, many people on lower levels could lose watchable pictures. For 2, , 5, 9, 11, I wonder if / when they are gonna start sending clear QAM (digital signals over the cable). that'd be more ideal than OTA for people like us who live with skyscrapers, plus QAM is oblivious to weather, airplaines in the sky, and doesn't require an expensive antenna..







If your TV set has a QAM tuner in addition to ATSC, you might as well give it a try.


According to this site, Manhattan has QAM signals for some channels.

the first half of the list is OTA channels and 2nd half Clear QAM in zip code 10010. But if your TV doesn't have a QAM tuner, forget about this.
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun...Postcode=10010


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *halsnook* /forum/post/14815017
> 
> 
> Re WNBC & WCBS after 1am:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that? Usually for me it's halfway through Conan O'Brien. Very frustrating, as I don't get the analog signal at all.



Oh yeah , they'd better stop cutting off broadcast like that after the transition!


----------



## moonstar

CBS and NBC terminated their digital broadcast around 9pm today as soon as the Presidential debate began. :OOOOOO


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/14821872
> 
> 
> CBS and NBC terminated their digital broadcast around 9pm today as soon as the Presidential debate began. :OOOOOO



No they didn't.


I live 48.5 miles from the ESB and I watched the debate on WNBC-DT OTA just fine.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14821920
> 
> 
> No they didn't.
> 
> 
> I live 48.5 miles from the ESB and I watched the debate on WNBC-DT OTA just fine.




Geez, I had my antenna hooked up to a computer tuner as opposed to a television display. thanx for letting me know caz i was in shock!


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/14818701
> 
> 
> Alright, thanks. I wasn't sure if there was anything wrong with my antennas. Yup! That's exactly what happens. so it's perhaps a multipath issue. Is there anything you can do to reduce it? It's cool that you can get an outdoor one. Not an option for me as I don't own the rooftop. Gosh, when they go all digital, many people on lower levels could lose watchable pictures. For 2, , 5, 9, 11, I wonder if / when they are gonna start sending clear QAM (digital signals over the cable). that'd be more ideal than OTA for people like us who live with skyscrapers, plus QAM is oblivious to weather, airplaines in the sky, and doesn't require an expensive antenna..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your TV set has a QAM tuner in addition to ATSC, you might as well give it a try.



My antennas are not outdoor antenna. They are indoor antenna only. If you see my signature, you will notice a Terk HDTVa sitting on top of my subwoofer. This was my old antenna. I have replaced it with a eagle aspen DB2 clone mounted on floor standing lamp.
 

I got it for $25 in amazon. The original DB2 is available for $32, I think. I highly recommend this antenna over any other.

also, from another post I came to know that you have HDTVa which is the amplified version which will cause problem at your location (you are too close to the transmitter). Have you tried the HDTVa without the amplifier? The DB2 is a very good antenna and I am using it without any amplifier after the HDTVa fell apart.


----------



## R.F. Burns

What is wrong with the WCBS aspect ratio? I am only gettig a 4:3 picture even though the settings are correct on my TV. I receive the normal 16:9 on other over the air channels. HD TV is driving me crazy. It is truly not dependable at this time. You don't know from moment to moment what kind of picture you'll receive. Considering the late date you'd think they'd have done a complete conversion. One moment you're watching full screen video and the next you are watching a much smaller video image.


----------



## SnellKrell

R.F. -


There is no reason to complain, WCBS is doing nothing wrong other than broadcasting an S.D. program.


"The Guiding Light" is not produced in H.D. - 16.9!!!!!


----------



## R.F. Burns

But what about the morning show. That is done in HD and today it was only 4:3 with no graphics on the sides which they usually do when they play 4:3 content on their newscasts. I know that network is putting in a new TX (network transmission not transmitter) but I doubt that had anything to do with this mornings issue.


----------



## SnellKrell

What is "the morning show"?


Are you talking about the local news programming before 7 a.m.? That's in HD.


The CBS Network "Early Show" is produced in S.D.


----------



## jpru34

do they go off the air overnight?


----------



## SnellKrell

It appears that stations continue to do work during the middle of the night on the Combiner antenna atop the ESB.


The Combiner is currently used to transmit:

2, 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13.


----------



## jpru34

At 7:30 AM, I am getting all the DTV stations as per usual EXCEPT still nothing at 13.1 DTV.


Anyone actually getting it now?


----------



## SnellKrell

It's 7:31, and 13.1 - "Sesame Street" coming in loud and clear!


----------



## jpru34

thanks - I wonder why I am getting all my other stations at usual full strength but can't get 13.1 DTV at all???


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/14828685
> 
> 
> My antennas are not outdoor antenna. They are indoor antenna only. If you see my signature, you will notice a Terk HDTVa sitting on top of my subwoofer. This was my old antenna. I have replaced it with a eagle aspen DB2 clone mounted on floor standing lamp.
> 
> 
> I got it for $25 in amazon. The original DB2 is available for $32, I think. I highly recommend this antenna over any other.
> 
> also, from another post I came to know that you have HDTVa which is the amplified version which will cause problem at your location (you are too close to the transmitter). Have you tried the HDTVa without the amplifier? The DB2 is a very good antenna and I am using it without any amplifier after the HDTVa fell apart.



Impressive! I assumed it was an outdoor antenna because of the look. And $25, $32 aren't bad at all if it works out for you (My Terk costed 37 dollars at J&R). Yes, I tried with the amp turned off. Believable or not, the signal strength was between 30 - 50% on my screen meter. Strange caz I live on East 70', probably 1-2 miles from the ESB, but let me remind you, compared to areas like SOHO and Tribeca, UES has a lot of 40-50 story buildings (and I live on the 4th floor :s ) , maybe that's why?!?! With the amp on, I get between 60 and 100% most of the times. but i'll try one more time without any amp. Unfortunately, I cannot adjust the amount of amp to optimize it. Thanx for the antenna info (I mean DB2). I'll look up the dimensions and see if it's possible for me to keep it hooked to my TV at all times if I have to give up on the Terk I have.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/14836808
> 
> 
> do they go off the air overnight?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14837487
> 
> 
> It appears that stations continue to do work during the middle of the night on the Combiner antenna atop the ESB.
> 
> 
> The Combiner is currently used to transmit:
> 
> 2, 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13.




Trust me, it depends on the day!!! Channel 2 and 4 (that I often watch late at night) sometimes stop around 1 am and come back in early morning. That happens like 3 to 5 days of out of a week.







Channel 5 seem to consistantly air at least until 2-3pm. I'm not sure about the other channels.


----------



## POWERFUL

That sucks. How do you watch Poker After Dark at 2:05?


----------



## tamahome02000

Someone told me channels above 52 will go away in Feb as well. I didn't know that.


----------



## SnellKrell

That's part of the digital transition - Midnight, February 17, 2009!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/14838474
> 
> 
> Channel 5 seem to consistantly air at least until 2-3pm. I'm not sure about the other channels.



WNYW-DT is using a separate antenna.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14846886
> 
> 
> WNYW-DT is using a separate antenna.



That explains indeed.


----------



## moonstar

I wanted to tell you that I tested QAM signals. There are tons and they don't go down after 1 or 2am like OTA. if you wanna watch CBS or NBC late at night, QAM may well be an alternative for you. That's IF your TV set/computer's TV tuner has a QAM tuner though. You can just hook up the coax from your wall directly to the digital tuner of your device (if it detects QAM in addition to ATSC) and scan for digital cable. It's cool caz you don't have to deal with the positioning of an antenna and pictures you get are unaffected by nearby structures, flying objects, or weather. The annoying part is that you initially have to sort out which channels are which becuase the numbering system for QAM is quite confusing. But once you get passed that stage, everything's so cool! Both the signal strength and quality are almost always 100%, and there's no antenna taking up space in your room!


----------



## schlivo

JPRU34,

I stopped getting 13.1 a few days ago also. Anyone know why?

Is it becuase w're in Jersey?


----------



## jpru34

I am not sure why the reception weakened - however, after readjusting my antenna in my attic (by pointing it slightly downward), I am now able to get 13.1 reliably (at least for now.....)


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14846886
> 
> 
> WNYW-DT is using a separate antenna.



That explains why I can get it the strongest next to channel 7.


Sorry I did not post in over a week. I was away. I find that digital stations are harder to pull in then analog. When I went away last week to my aunts house who lives in Canadenses PA with a DTV Converter Box and a old but big roof antenna I could not get a signal digital station. The same antenna could pick up analog stations all the way from NYC but digital stations from Scranton PA only 30 miles away I could only get a little blimp of a digital station on only channels 31 (38 CW) and 32 (Ion) but with no picture. I could not get WNEP 16 or any station. So I see the entire digital transition as more of a nuisance and the big reason many people are going have to get cable or satellite TV wither they can afford it or not to be able to watch OTA stations that they use to be able to get on analog but they can't get reliable with digital.


----------



## HIPAR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14858264
> 
> 
> T... When I went away last week to my aunts house who lives in Canadenses PA with a DTV Converter Box and a old but big roof antenna I could not get a signal digital station. ...



The Poconos are a 'Black Hole' for broadcast TV. I get only snowy VHF here down the road from Canadenses in Tannersville. Sad state of affairs for the newest suburb of NYC.


--- CHAS


----------



## Trip in VA

During the July 4 week, my grandparents own a timeshare up near Bushkill, and there's absolutely nothing there. All I can see are analog signals from WTBY-54 and a faint WMBC-63... and when the weather's right WNJB2 comes over the mountain. Absolutely nothing digital.


Even the translators from Stroudsburg won't make it. On FM, there are a few stations from Poughkeepsie and faint NYC signals, plus Stroudsburg and other odds and ends mainly from New York state, up toward Port Jervis.


Last time I was there, I drove all the way up to Port Jervis to get WTBY-DT and WRNN-DT. I was amused at how many New York City stations made it in up there. I also saw Scranton analogs but not digitals. I also drove up toward Scranton to get WSWB-DT and WQPX-DT, and those were a real challenge to get, very picky signals. I thought I saw a flash of WIVT-34 analog from Binghamton but couldn't find a spot to stop on the Interstate at the mountaintop, and wasn't about to drive up to Binghamton to try to get those stations...


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14858749
> 
> 
> Last time I was there, I drove all the way up to Port Jervis to get WTBY-DT and WRNN-DT. I was amused at how many New York City stations made it in up there. I also saw Scranton analogs but not digitals. I also drove up toward Scranton to get WSWB-DT and WQPX-DT, and those were a real challenge to get, very picky signals. I thought I saw a flash of WIVT-34 analog from Binghamton but couldn't find a spot to stop on the Interstate at the mountaintop, and wasn't about to drive up to Binghamton to try to get those stations...
> 
> 
> - Trip



Port Jervis is not that far from me, so you can get a picture of what I have to deal with.


I get all of NYC ESB except for WNET-DT (low power) and WNYW-DT (different antenna pattern). But my antenna is a CM4228 on a 70 foot tower with a 30dB preamp. WNYW-DT is the height of irony since I work for Fox.










I have a 2nd 4228 to throw up there so I'm not giving up on WNYW just yet. It barely comes in but breaks up a lot.


Rabbit ears/UHF loop inside, all I get is W36AZ (WNJB repeater, analog), WMBC and WASA-LP analog. Antenna on roof level I get WRNN-DT, WTBY-DT, WNJN-DT/WNJB-DT and snowy but watchable NYC analogs.


Sometimes I wonder why I even bother. I do it actually for a few reasons -
I want to have options in case cable goes out. Last ice storm took down trees and took out cable for about a day or so. My antenna tower didn't even flinch.

I am, like you, an RF geek.

Cable may be on the axe list if the budget gets tight.


----------



## dad1153

WWOR-DT fails at life. They're repeating the ESPN SD full screen feed of the "MNF" Giants-Browns game on their OTA channel even though the station is plenty capable of HD broadcasts (when the station airs Yankees games). Maybe the game originating from Cleveland has something to do with it, but then why not just pick the ESPN HD feed? Of course ESPN-HD on cable is a million times better looking, which is just sad but expected from the Ch.9 folks.


----------



## StudioTech

^ LOL! Tell us how you really feel about the station. I hear ya, though. I was gonna make similar comments in the MNF thread about the PQ, but I guess you got there already.


P.S. I hate the my9 logo (and all the MNTV logos for that matter.) Worst logo in the business.


----------



## Trip in VA

WASA-LP is on the air? I didn't know that. What're they airing?


- Trip


----------



## rundugrun

I'm new to the forum and I've found lots of good information so far... However, I'm having trouble finding specific recommendations for antennas. Is there a quality indoor antenna (blue / violet) that will work for me? My details from antennaweb are below.


blue

uhf WNJN 50 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ 135° 8.1 50

blue

vhf WNET 13 PBS NEWARK, NJ 137° 21.9 13

blue

vhf WNBC 4 NBC NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 4

blue

uhf WFUT 68 TFA NEWARK, NJ 137° 21.9 68

* blue

uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 135° 8.1 51

blue

vhf WCBS 2 CBS NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 2

blue

vhf WABC 7 ABC NEW YORK, NY 145° 22.3 7

blue

vhf WNYW 5 FOX NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 5

blue

vhf WPIX 11 CW NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 11

blue

uhf WNYE 25 IND NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 25

blue

vhf WWOR 9 MNT SECAUCUS, NJ 137° 21.9 9

blue

uhf WXTV 41 UNI PATERSON, NJ 137° 21.9 41

blue

uhf WPXN 31 ION NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 31

blue

uhf WMBC 63 IND NEWTON, NJ 306° 14.8 63

* violet

vhf WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK, NJ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 136° 21.5 8

* violet

uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON, NJ 306° 14.8 18

* violet

vhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK, NJ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 137° 21.9 13

violet

uhf WNJU 47 TEL LINDEN, NJ 137° 21.9 47

* violet

uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ 135° 8.1 51

* violet

vhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK, NY Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 145° 22.4 7


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dad1153* /forum/post/14859132
> 
> 
> WWOR-DT fails at life. They're repeating the ESPN SD full screen feed of the "MNF" Giants-Browns game on their OTA channel even though the station is plenty capable of HD broadcasts (when the station airs Yankees games). Maybe the game originating from Cleveland has something to do with it, but then why not just pick the ESPN HD feed? Of course ESPN-HD on cable is a million times better looking, which is just sad but expected from the Ch.9 folks.



Strange. It was HD on Cablevision. Looked blurry, but it was 16:9. They were taking in the ESPN HD feed for sure.


As for it looking better on ESPN, well consider that they aren't taking the backhaul feed. They are taking ESPN's fronthaul. So, lets argue that ESPN is sending it under 38 Mbps to WWOR, then it didn't have much to work with to look any better.


----------



## erappleman

How do I get WRNN-DT from Hempstead?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rundugrun* /forum/post/14863649
> 
> 
> I'm new to the forum and I've found lots of good information so far... However, I'm having trouble finding specific recommendations for antennas. Is there a quality indoor antenna (blue / violet) that will work for me? My details from antennaweb are below.
> 
> 
> blue
> 
> uhf WNJN 50 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ 135° 8.1 50
> 
> blue
> 
> vhf WNET 13 PBS NEWARK, NJ 137° 21.9 13
> 
> blue
> 
> vhf WNBC 4 NBC NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 4
> 
> blue
> 
> uhf WFUT 68 TFA NEWARK, NJ 137° 21.9 68
> 
> * blue
> 
> uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 135° 8.1 51
> 
> blue
> 
> vhf WCBS 2 CBS NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 2
> 
> blue
> 
> vhf WABC 7 ABC NEW YORK, NY 145° 22.3 7
> 
> blue
> 
> vhf WNYW 5 FOX NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 5
> 
> blue
> 
> vhf WPIX 11 CW NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 11
> 
> blue
> 
> uhf WNYE 25 IND NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 25
> 
> blue
> 
> vhf WWOR 9 MNT SECAUCUS, NJ 137° 21.9 9
> 
> blue
> 
> uhf WXTV 41 UNI PATERSON, NJ 137° 21.9 41
> 
> blue
> 
> uhf WPXN 31 ION NEW YORK, NY 137° 21.9 31
> 
> blue
> 
> uhf WMBC 63 IND NEWTON, NJ 306° 14.8 63
> 
> * violet
> 
> vhf WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK, NJ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 136° 21.5 8
> 
> * violet
> 
> uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON, NJ 306° 14.8 18
> 
> * violet
> 
> vhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK, NJ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 137° 21.9 13
> 
> violet
> 
> uhf WNJU 47 TEL LINDEN, NJ 137° 21.9 47
> 
> * violet
> 
> uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ 135° 8.1 51
> 
> * violet
> 
> vhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK, NY Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 145° 22.4 7




The information above to many of is meaningless unless you tell us where you live and how far you estimate your home from the Empire State Building in NYC.


Do you live in a private home, are there a lot of trees, can you see the

Empire State Building from your home, can you mount an antenna on your roof???


Lots of questions!


From that addtional data, some of us can try to help you.


----------



## rundugrun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14863985
> 
> 
> The information above to many of is meaningless unless you tell us where you live and how far you estimate your home from the Empire State Building in NYC.
> 
> 
> Do you live in a private home, are there a lot of trees, can you see the
> 
> Empire State Building from your home, can you mount an antenna on your roof???
> 
> 
> Lots of questions!
> 
> 
> From that addtional data, some of us can try to help you.




Sorry about that! I live in a private home, but cannot mount the antenna on my roof. There are some trees about 20ft high around the house. I cannot see the Empire State buidling, it's about 20 miles from my home. My zipcode is 07082. Thanks for any help.


----------



## rundugrun

I just checked my address on tvfool.com and it looks like I'll need at least an attic antenna...


----------



## tamahome02000

Just try any uhf/vhf antenna from somewhere with a return policy.


----------



## 5w30




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erappleman* /forum/post/14863940
> 
> 
> How do I get WRNN-DT from Hempstead?



You have some sort of love for infomercials?

WRNN's signal does NOT reach Nassau County. The transmitter is in upstate Kingston, NY.


To see what you can see at home, use http://www.antennaweb.org


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *5w30* /forum/post/14864572
> 
> 
> You have some sort of love for infomercials?
> 
> WRNN's signal does NOT reach Nassau County. The transmitter is in upstate Kingston, NY.
> 
> 
> To see what you can see at home, use http://www.antennaweb.org



WRNN-DT technically transmits from Newburgh even though it's licensed to Kingston but the point stands, it won't make it to Long Island.


My guess is that he wants to watch that Long Island-targeted newscast that WRNN has. Why they have that newscast and not one dedicated to the Kingston area, you know, where their licensed, I have no idea.


- Trip


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14864913
> 
> 
> WRNN-DT technically transmits from Newburgh even though it's licensed to Kingston but the point stands, it won't make it to Long Island.
> 
> 
> My guess is that he wants to watch that Long Island-targeted newscast that WRNN has. Why they have that newscast and not one dedicated to the Kingston area, you know, where their licensed, I have no idea.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I know why. It's because they're trying to get added as a "must-carry" for Cablevision customers in Long Island. There is a lawsuit pending on it, with WRNN claiming "ruin" if they don't get the new viewers.


That "Long Island Newscast" is a token attempt to show that they're "serving" Long Island.



http://www.multichannel.com/article/...87.html?q=WRNN


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14859184
> 
> 
> WASA-LP is on the air? I didn't know that. What're they airing?
> 
> 
> - Trip



I think they are, although I could be wrong and it could be another station.


All I see on that channel (64) are informercials, all day, all night long.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/14865621
> 
> 
> I know why. It's because they're trying to get added as a "must-carry" for Cablevision customers in Long Island. There is a lawsuit pending on it, with WRNN claiming "ruin" if they don't get the new viewers.
> 
> 
> That "Long Island Newscast" is a token attempt to show that they're "serving" Long Island.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/...87.html?q=WRNN



Yep, that's exactly the reason, and they are basically doing what WLNY did.


WLNY, even though it's way out east in Suffolk county is carried on NYC/NNJ cable systems and on DBS. There used to even be ads on the NYC subway for them.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rundugrun* /forum/post/14863649
> 
> 
> I'm new to the forum and I've found lots of good information so far... However, I'm having trouble finding specific recommendations for antennas. Is there a quality indoor antenna (blue / violet) that will work for me? My details from antennaweb are below.



I hate antennaweb. They are seldom accurate.


Rather, where do you live and what do you live in (house, apartment, condo) and what are your outdoor antenna mounting options?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *5w30* /forum/post/14864572
> 
> 
> You have some sort of love for infomercials?[/url]



WRNN-DT3 carries the Funimation network if you're a fan of anime.


I believe they also carry religious (TBN) programming on 48.2.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm somewhat surprised WLNY and WRNN haven't made some kind of simulcasting deal happen. WRNN on 55-2 and WLNY on 62-2 (in place of the redundant TBN). You'd think they'd see the mutual benefit of such a deal.


Granted, I know sometimes competitors like that aren't in a hurry to make deals, but it seems like it'd make sense in my head.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14867474
> 
> 
> Yep, that's exactly the reason, and they are basically doing what WLNY did.
> 
> 
> WLNY, even though it's way out east in Suffolk county is carried on NYC/NNJ cable systems and on DBS. There used to even be ads on the NYC subway for them.



Speaking of WLNY, I wonder why the separate WLNY feed without the first-run syndicated programming (known in the TV listings at the time as WLNY-M) was dropped a few years ago? I thought there was some FCC rule about importing a station with the same syndicated programming.


----------



## R.F. Burns

When I had a roof mounted UHF antenna in my old house I used to receive WLNY's over the air analog signal quite well in Rockland County, NY. They had a very good signal on channel 55.


----------



## KML0224

I used to get a very faint snowy signal of theirs here in New Britain, CT. Same with channel 67 of Smithtown, NY. I never did get anything from channel 68 of Newark, NJ though. As for digital, the only out-of-state signal I've ever received was the ION station of the Providence, RI market. That's only because their transmitter isn't terribly far from the Connecticut state line.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/14868891
> 
> 
> When I had a roof mounted UHF antenna in my old house I used to receive WLNY's over the air analog signal quite well in Rockland County, NY. They had a very good signal on channel 55.



Taking into account the elevation, Some parts of Rockland county to L.I. are pretty much a clear shot over the water.


----------



## niterider31




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14867522
> 
> 
> I'm somewhat surprised WLNY and WRNN haven't made some kind of simulcasting deal happen. WRNN on 55-2 and WLNY on 62-2 (in place of the redundant TBN). You'd think they'd see the mutual benefit of such a deal.
> 
> 
> Granted, I know sometimes competitors like that aren't in a hurry to make deals, but it seems like it'd make sense in my head.
> 
> 
> - Trip




because those networks like many others depend on cable carriage for viewers not over the air!


----------



## niterider31




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14867483
> 
> 
> I hate antennaweb. They are seldom accurate.
> 
> 
> Rather, where do you live and what do you live in (house, apartment, condo) and what are your outdoor antenna mounting options?



do u honestly think antennaweb or any other site can give u a completely accurate listing unless they do a site survey in every address in america? use it as a guideline of what you might be able to receive.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *niterider31* /forum/post/14883030
> 
> 
> because those networks like many others depend on cable carriage for viewers not over the air!



In a poor economic situation where people are trying to save money and reduce their expenditures, pay-for TV is one of the first things to go. Being an option when people start putting up antennas is a good thing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *niterider31* /forum/post/14883032
> 
> 
> do u honestly think antennaweb or any other site can give u a completely accurate listing unless they do a site survey in every address in america? use it as a guideline of what you might be able to receive.



Antennaweb changed their algorithm a few years back and they became very inaccurate. Nowadays, the best site for this sort of thing is probably TVFool . I've found it to be amazingly accurate for every location I've tried. Any mistakes I've seen TV Fool make are caused by mistakes in the FCC's database (and there are many of those).


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *niterider31* /forum/post/14883032
> 
> 
> do u honestly think antennaweb or any other site can give u a completely accurate listing unless they do a site survey in every address in america? use it as a guideline of what you might be able to receive.



A completely accurate assessment? No. But you can get a "ballpark" estimate, and antennaweb isn't even good at that.


As for having to do a site survey of every address in America, you don't need to do that. The USGS has done most of that legwork for us, and with modern terrain modeling software you can accurately determine what has a chance of being received and what can't be. With UHF (and VHF) signals that rely on line of sight propagation and diffraction for reliable propagation, it is very easy to predict how much signal makes it where and how much doesn't.


Try TVFool.com and you'll be pleasantly surprised. Its estimate was far closer to what CEA's antennaweb.org gave me.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *niterider31* /forum/post/14883030
> 
> 
> because those networks like many others depend on cable carriage for viewers not over the air!



If a station is receivable over the air at the cable headend, there's a stronger case for it to be forced by the FCC to be carried by the cable company. These days that's important when cable companies are struggling to shave off channels they don't want to have to carry.


----------



## erappleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14867506
> 
> 
> WRNN-DT3 carries the Funimation network if you're a fan of anime.



Yup.


BTW, does cablevision or any cable/sat provider carry the WRNN subchannels?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erappleman* /forum/post/14889482
> 
> 
> Yup.
> 
> 
> BTW, does cablevision or any cable/sat provider carry the WRNN subchannels?



Cablevision definitely does not.


----------



## erappleman

hmmm...

http://www.rnntv.com/Global/category...v=menu566_11_5


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erappleman* /forum/post/14890385
> 
> 
> hmmm...
> 
> http://www.rnntv.com/Global/category...v=menu566_11_5




Yes, they carry the main channel, but I know as a Cablevision subscriber, they don't carry the subs.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erappleman* /forum/post/14889482
> 
> 
> Yup.
> 
> 
> BTW, does cablevision or any cable/sat provider carry the WRNN subchannels?



I don't even see the main channel on my cable system (Service Electric) even though WRNN-DT OTA is strong here.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14883100
> 
> 
> Antennaweb changed their algorithm a few years back and they became very inaccurate. Nowadays, the best site for this sort of thing is probably TVFool . I've found it to be amazingly accurate for every location I've tried. Any mistakes I've seen TV Fool make are caused by mistakes in the FCC's database (and there are many of those).



I don't find TV Fool that accurate either. It says that I could get all the New York channels green no problems with a indoor antenna (channel 13 for example), yet it shows WFME channel 29 as yellow saying that I would have problems picking up that waste of space station and I would need a roof antenna. By now you know it is the opposite as I have trouble getting New York stations and I get that waste of space channel the strongest with no problems but I am not going to get into that again.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14898850
> 
> 
> I don't find TV Fool that accurate either. It says that I could get all the New York channels green no problems with a indoor antenna (channel 13 for example), yet it shows WFME channel 29 as yellow saying that I would have problems picking up that waste of space station and I would need a roof antenna. By now you know it is the opposite as I have trouble getting New York stations and I get that waste of space channel the strongest with no problems but I am not going to get into that again.



TV Fool has data on terrain, and can't take into account multipath from buildings. Living in Brooklyn, I'd imagine that as a huge problem and there's nothing I can think of that TV Fool can really do to fix that.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14898896
> 
> 
> TV Fool has data on terrain, and can't take into account multipath from buildings. Living in Brooklyn, I'd imagine that as a huge problem and there's nothing I can think of that TV Fool can really do to fix that.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Remember too that reddice is using an indoor antenna. There isn't a website out there that can accurately take into account how your indoor antenna is oriented.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14898850
> 
> 
> I don't find TV Fool that accurate either. It says that I could get all the New York channels green no problems with a indoor antenna (channel 13 for example), yet it shows WFME channel 29 as yellow saying that I would have problems picking up that waste of space station and I would need a roof antenna. By now you know it is the opposite as I have trouble getting New York stations and I get that waste of space channel the strongest with no problems but I am not going to get into that again.



When they say you can receive all of them with an indoor antenna, it is not guaranteed.


The fact that the antenna is indoors will cause your reception to vary quite widely, and no tool on earth can tell what your indoor antenna will or won't do.


----------



## reddice

I don't know if I forget to mention this but I live in a upstairs three floor brown house. Looking on my roof there are no tall buildings until you hit downtown. That is where my multipath is coming from because after that is a clear view to the ESB.


As for a reception update 2 I can get nothing anymore. I can pick up 5 and 7 stronger than I use to be able to. Especially 5 I can get four green bars. If I move the antenna I know I can pull in five green bars. 4 I can get good on somedays than others but it still is not as good as it was during the Olympics. 9 I was able to get briefly a couple of days ago but now I still can't lock in a signal. It use to be one of my strongest station last month. 11 I am able to at least get three yellow bars. 13 I never once got a blimp ever. 31 I got very weak once. 41 I never got anything. 47 even gets week on certain days and that station is in NJ. 68 I can get certain days but most of the time is weak.


That is my update on OTA reception.


----------



## NY DTV Geeks

Reddice -

Could you give us the location of a major intersecton near your home ? We want to run a test truck out there to capture signal levels and other pertinent data. Thanks


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NY DTV Geeks* /forum/post/14901986
> 
> 
> Reddice -
> 
> Could you give us the location of a major intersecton near your home ? We want to run a test truck out there to capture signal levels and other pertinent data. Thanks



I live on Hoyt Street between Douglas and Degraw Street.


----------



## reddice

Reception is weaker today. What really gets on my nerves is that I leave my TV on a New York station and its strong and then the next day it becomes a pixelated mess.


----------



## Falcon_77

*Analog Test Shutoffs Coming to NY, LA, DC*

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/68576 



> Quote:
> Thirteen stations in the largest TV market in the nation, the New York DMA, will run a two-minute simulated shutdown of their analog signals next Tuesday, Oct. 28.



I don't see any specifics for LA or DC, despite the title.


Tests like these may not be that comprehensive, but it's much better than the current approach (PSA's), which probably leaves tens of thousands of households unsure if they need to do anything.


----------



## StudioTech

One of the things that some of the stations need to do is tell the viewer that they'll need to do a rescan on 2/17/09, because their digital RF signal is moving to another position. Otherwise some will wake up, turn on their sets and see the following:


WCBS-DT - No signal (They will have moved from 56 to 33)


WABC-DT - No signal (They will have moved from 45 back to 7)


WPIX-DT - Will see programming from WCBS (They will have moved from 33, which will have WCBS programing, back to 11)


WNET-DT - No signal (will have moved from 61 back to 13)


WPXN-DT - No signal (will have moved from 30 back to 31)


I'm not sure what's the easiest way to explain it to people without getting the "deer in the headlights look", but it's something that should be done.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/14919255
> 
> *Analog Test Shutoffs Coming to NY, LA, DC*
> 
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/68576
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any specifics for LA or DC, despite the title.
> 
> 
> Tests like these may not be that comprehensive, but it's much better than the current approach (PSA's), which probably leaves tens of thousands of households unsure if they need to do anything.



I wish they'd shut off WMBC analog. It would give me a chance to see how my preamp performs without WMBC's strong and close signal overloading it.


----------



## dagger666

Finally Universal Sports channel 04-04 had something on worth watching, international Hockey.


What do you make of this, the digital tv in my room, kitchen using a dtvpal and upstairs also using a dtvpal can pickup channel 05 but my sisters upstairs hdtv a room away can't pick up channel 05. It's the same HDTV i have downstaires and even with a different antenna it still could not pick up channel 05 but does get channel 09-01,02.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/14922167
> 
> 
> Finally Universal Sports channel 04-03 had something on worth watching, international Hockey.
> 
> 
> What do you make of this, the digital tv in my room, kitchen using a dtvpal and upstairs also using a dtvpal can pickup channel 05 but my sisters upstairs hdtv a room away can't pick up channel 05. It's the same HDTV i have downstaires and even with a different antenna it still could not pick up channel 05 but does get channel 09-01,02.



Are you located in NJ? 5's antenna pattern doesn't do very well for NJ because of the interference issues with WMCN in Atlantic city.


----------



## POWERFUL

Speaking of that Universal Sports channel, if your the city's marathon watcher you can watch it live on Nov 2nd. That makes it worth it.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14922286
> 
> 
> Are you located in NJ? 5's antenna pattern doesn't do very well for NJ because of the interference issues with WMCN in Atlantic city.



no, I'm in NY 14 miles away from NY city on long island. She is using Phillips amplified rabbit ears and the other antenna we tried was a monoprice which I'm using in the kitchen and downstairs bedroom and the other TV upstairs is simply rabbit ears.


----------



## dagger666

humm


----------



## johninbricknj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14922286
> 
> 
> Are you located in NJ? 5's antenna pattern doesn't do very well for NJ because of the interference issues with WMCN in Atlantic city.



I'm in Brick nj and WNYW's signal is good with no issues. It's the most stable of any of them.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johninbricknj* /forum/post/14939825
> 
> 
> I'm in Brick nj and WNYW's signal is good with no issues. It's the most stable of any of them.



It depends on where in NJ. Where I am they are very low.


----------



## BrooklynGal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14911154
> 
> 
> I live on Hoyt Street between Douglas and Degraw Street.



NYDTVGeeks:

Would you consider testing out Ave R and East 17 Street vicinity - 11229 zip while you are out in Bklyn? This is about 10 miles from ESB.


I also am in an appt bldg, a Sr with no budget for cable, & no rooftop access. afaik, all the others in my bldg use cablevision for years & aren't bothering with ota. I bought the Zenith with analog pass-through Digital reception box & am using it with the RS-UFO. (also have a RS-Delta, which isn't amped & also got some reception, in reserve)


I know, I know, everyone insists multi-path "has to be" my issue, BUT (as someone here said, who should I believe, him -- the expert -- or the evidence of my own eyes?) I get almost zero reception unless & until I use the UFO's amp on 3 (its highest setting. & yes, then at times it freezes, the bar moves... but that beats zero reception hands down.) which is why I kept looking till I found the UFO, which on occasion is great! instead of settling for the Delta's more spotty reception. Am doing OK with analog stations reception using the RS-UFO on the pass-through. The digital reception is all over the place, constantly changing & sometimes completely unavailable! I would like to think it will all straighten out come Feb. If not, I supppose I'll look into a directional antenna then, but if I'm not mistaken, the silver sensors won't get me 7 or 13.


Anyway, if you can, I'd appreciate your feedback on my neighborhood. You may not see me posting back for a while, I've got some medical tests scheduled for the next few days, but I will follow up as soon as I next get to my computer.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrooklynGal* /forum/post/14944190
> 
> 
> NYDTVGeeks:
> 
> Would you consider testing out Ave R and East 17 Street vicinity - 11229 zip while you are out in Bklyn? This is about 10 miles from ESB.
> 
> 
> I also am in an appt bldg, a Sr with no budget for cable, & no rooftop access. afaik, all the others in my bldg use cablevision for years & aren't bothering with ota. I bought the Zenith with analog pass-through Digital reception box & am using it with the RS-UFO. (also have a RS-Delta, which isn't amped & also got some reception, in reserve)
> 
> 
> I know, I know, everyone insists multi-path "has to be" my issue, BUT (as someone here said, who should I believe, him -- the expert -- or the evidence of my own eyes?) I get almost zero reception unless & until I use the UFO's amp on 3 (its highest setting. & yes, then at times it freezes, the bar moves... but that beats zero reception hands down.) which is why I kept looking till I found the UFO, which on occasion is great! instead of settling for the Delta's more spotty reception. Am doing OK with analog stations reception using the RS-UFO on the pass-through. The digital reception is all over the place, constantly changing & sometimes completely unavailable! I would like to think it will all straighten out come Feb. If not, I supppose I'll look into a directional antenna then, but if I'm not mistaken, the silver sensors won't get me 7 or 13.
> 
> 
> Anyway, if you can, I'd appreciate your feedback on my neighborhood. You may not see me posting back for a while, I've got some medical tests scheduled for the next few days, but I will follow up as soon as I next get to my computer.



It has to be multipath, because you are only a few miles from the transmitter.


----------



## craig372




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/14944332
> 
> 
> It has to be multipath, because you are only a few miles from the transmitter.



Sorry to repeat this, but there are clearly issues other than multipath with reception of OTA digital channels in Brooklyn. I am in Boerum Hill (11217) and have a directional rooftop antenna. I do see evidence of multipath on my analog reception. However, in early July, I used to get reception of 2.x,4.x.5.x,7.x.9.x,11.x,and 13.x (as well as other minor digital channels). Then suddenly every disappeared except 5.x (apparently due to work on the ESB transmitters). By the end of July, I also started getting 4.x and 11.x again. Now, similar to what reddice reports, I get 5.x reliably and 7.x, 4.x, and 11.x okay but with enough freeze ups to be annoying. 5.1 is about the only station that I can watch in digital; for everything else I usually watch the analog channels. As the transition date approaches, I am starting to get a little concerned that the networks are not that interested in fixing the signal in Brooklyn.


On this thread, it has been mentioned that there is a 'fill-in' transmitter that is supposed to broadcast the stations that use the Combiner antenna (2,4,7,9,11,13 I think) to Brooklyn. If that is the case, it certainly seems that it is not working properly. Could it be that it has been optimized for the post transition frequencies? (on that note, it would sure be nice if in addition to doing a test with a simulated shutoff of analog, they would actually turn on post-transition digital perhaps for an hour or so (long enough to program in the new channels) in the middle of the night so we could really see what to expect next Feb 17 - I am sure analog viewers could stand to miss one hour of the nightly infomercials







)


----------



## SnellKrell

According to an excellent engineering source, the ESB 82nd Floor fill-in S.E. antenna system is there to help reception now for the Combiner stations, not just for the post-transition.


----------



## Skyeclad

Any chance that work is still ongoing? Reception in Fairfield County for 2, 4, 7, 9 and 11 has been poor for a couple of weeks now. This is after an improvement seen a couple of weeks after the Olympics. If things don't improve by transition I may have to look into paytv again and my options in that area are not good.


----------



## Falcon_77

Has there been anything new as respects the soft analog shut-off test scheduled for tonight? I checked a few broadcaster's websites and didn't see any updates on this.


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe it's 5:45 p.m. this evening.


----------



## craig372




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14957657
> 
> 
> I believe it's 5:45 p.m. this evening.



The link ( http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/68576 ) posted recently in this thread says 5:59 tonight. Does not sound like it will be of any interest to those of us that already know about the transition and really want to know why the digital signals are so lousy.


SnellKrell - can you check with your excellent engineering source to find out the status of the digital transmitters on the ESB? Are they still making changes or are they pretty much ready (other than frequency changes) for post transition? 13.x is obviously broadcasting at low power. Are the other combiner stations also using less than full power? Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT is advertising 5:45.


Sorry, engineering source not available!


My reception of Channel 13 has never been stronger.


Don't fall into the trap that if your reception is poor, that doesn't mean everyone's

is that way!


----------



## jpru34

agreed with reception of 13.1-DTV. I don't know if they are broadcasting at full power or not but my signal strength meter now reads 100% for the first time.


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe that all the Combiner stations are at full power.


Realize that a lot of work is being done on ESB in preparation for the changeover.


Pretty soon, because of weather, the only work that needs to be done will be solely indoors.


----------



## sansri88

WCBS said 5:58pm is when their test is.


----------



## tamahome02000

This pdf says 5:59:

https://www.ntiadtv.gov/docs/Analog_..._Test_List.pdf


----------



## craig372




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14958449
> 
> 
> WABC-DT is advertising 5:45.
> 
> 
> Sorry, engineering source not available!
> 
> 
> My reception of Channel 13 has never been stronger.
> 
> 
> Don't fall into the trap that if your reception is poor, that doesn't mean everyone's
> 
> is that way!



Thanks for checking. If you can try again later that would be great.


I don't assume everyone's reception is lousy. But there is evidence that transmission to Brooklyn is currently substandard. The fact that you are getting 13.x is in fact further evidence that something is wrong with transmission to Brooklyn. A few weeks ago, in the middle of the night, 13.x had the best signal I have ever received from any digital station (all the other combiner stations seemed to be down at the time) - so I know that it is indeed possible for there to be a strong 13.x signal here and for my system to tune it in. Now my tuner can't even detect the channel, much less lock into a clear picture. Of course it is always possible that my system is unstable, but since others in the area are reporting similar reception, I don't think it is likely.


I am just a little frustrated that at this fairly late date, that the transmission issues are not all resolved. It would be interesting to know if the reasons are technical or perhaps there might be some business strategies involved.


----------



## SnellKrell

The statement: "The fact that you are getting 13.x is in fact further evidence that something is wrong with transmission to Brooklyn."


That make absolutely no sense!


The Combiner uses an omnidirectional pattern with filler arrays for additional coverage the N.W. and the S.E. The S.E. addition was specifically installed to aid reception in Brooklyn and Queens. If the new array are not helping you, welcome to the real world of digital, UHF reception. Temperature, humidity (rain, snow) all change the effectiveness of transmission.


Things are in flux not just until 2/17/09, stations will continue to work on the ESB installations way into 2010!


----------



## reddice

How did the test go? How was the reception?


----------



## 2VW

Those close to the transmitters who are experiencing multipath might try simply tipping their indoor antenna sideways. Indirect paths sometimes change polarization. The effect can be quite dramatic. While communicating on VHF in the city with a vertically polarized fixed station 35 miles distant I've found turning my handheld transceiver sideways can make the difference between communicating or listening to fuzz. This usually only works between tall buildings. When I used to drive into NYC I would remove my magnet mount rooftop antenna and throw it across the back seat in order to park in the garage. Communication with the same fixed station would improve quite a bit with the horizontally oriented antenna even though it was inside my car.


Channel 13 cannot test their post transition digital yet. There is no FCC mechanism to allow this plus they WNET will need hardware changes.


13.1 is currently still at low power as most on here know.


----------



## Skyeclad

I managed to improve my reception quite a bit last night by adjusting my antenna about 40 degrees off of the exact transmission direction. I don't know why this works but whatever is being done alters the direction of my optimal signal reception widely. I have seen this happen before thankfully so I had an idea what might be happening. I'm grateful now that I put up a rotator. At first I thought it would be unecessary since I'm not changing direction to pull in CT locals but I guess they keep moving the ESB around the city. I figure it must be on the west side turnpike about now.


----------



## jmcnally




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/14963360
> 
> 
> Those close to the transmitters who are experiencing multipath might try simply tipping their indoor antenna sideways. Indirect paths sometimes change polarization. The effect can be quite dramatic. While communicating on VHF in the city with a vertically polarized fixed station 35 miles distant I've found turning my handheld transceiver sideways can make the difference between communicating or listening to fuzz. This usually only works between tall buildings. When I used to drive into NYC I would remove my magnet mount rooftop antenna and throw it across the back seat in order to park in the garage. Communication with the same fixed station would improve quite a bit with the horizontally oriented antenna even though it was inside my car.
> 
> 
> Channel 13 cannot test their post transition digital yet. There is no FCC mechanism to allow this plus they WNET will need hardware changes.
> 
> 
> 13.1 is currently still at low power as most on here know.



Just last week, I was able to improve my reception of 13.x simply by raising my roof-mounted antenna vertically, approximately 3 feet! Before, I was getting 2 bars of signal strength. After, I am getting 4-5 bars. My roof is 40 feet up, but I do not have a clear line of sight to the ESB.


Also, my antenna (an Antennas Direct V15) is connected to a 100-ft RJ6, a grounding block, a 25-ft RJ6, a 3-way splitter and a 3-ft RJ6, then to my Samsung LCD and EyeTV USB tuner.


BTW, the Samsung tuner SUCKS compared to the EyeTV.


----------



## tamahome02000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/14962072
> 
> 
> How did the test go? How was the reception?



It made engadget and there's a video:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/29...shutoff-drill/


----------



## dagger666

last week abc did a test of their digital single, what was the test because i wasn't home for it


----------



## i_write2

I live in Prospect Heights and have been getting excellent reception of OTA HD for over two years off of a basic Radio Shack U-75R UHF antenna pointed at ESB and mounted on the roof of my building (all signals usually 85-100% including 13.1.2 .3). My question is do I need to add a VHF antenna for the Feb. change or am I good to go? If I do need to change I would like to get something multi-directional that would give a shot at the Long Island stations as well. The test last week was no help to me because I don't think they were using the Feb. frequencies (specifically ABC, PIX, and NET) all of my signals were unchanged during the test. Any help or antenna recommendations would be appreciated.


Thanks


----------



## jpru34

There are many who are smarter than me on this board, but I believe you will surely need a VHF antenna come February b\\c ABC, WPIX, and WNET will all be broadcasting on VHF (7, 11, 13).


----------



## SnellKrell

The first thing I would do is to see if your current UHF antenna can currently receive analogue channels 7, 11 and 13. If they are received, even with a lot of ghosting, etc., who stand a very good chance of picking up those channels when they go digital.


Many UHF antennas will pick up high VHF frequencies.


----------



## LenL

I am 30 miles west from the NY transmitters. My roof top antenna picked up all of the NY stations including channel 13 analog clear w/o snow. When I tried to pick up the digital signals I only received 25.1, 25.2, 63.1 thru 63.5. I could not get any digital signal for the major stations. So I think many people will find that just because they got a very good analog signal doesn't mean they will get a digital signal at all.


Next I installed a roof top channel master 4228 digital antenna and 7777 preamp and I now receive 38 digital and hd channels. All of the NY and NJ channels including 4 PBS channels. While reception is not strong on some channels I expect the signal strength will be even better after February 2009. For example 13.1 is supposed to be much stronger.


Bottom line is a digital antenna and preamp can make a big difference for some number of people.


----------



## SnellKrell

There is no such thing as a digital antenna!


An antenna is cut for various frequencies - such as VHF or UHF and a combination of the two.


The correct antenna will pick up analogue or digital - antennas don't recognize the difference!


----------



## LenL

Technically you are right but in reality since digital is not broadcast on the low VHF, and an antenna that will pick up mostly UHF and high VHF is digital signal ready I call it a digital antenna. The other reality is the existing antenna could pick up Analog UHF and VHF signals very well and not digital. Switching to the CM bowtie with the pre amp picked up all kinds of digital signals....hence I use the term.


Back to my point. Your assumption was wrong. There will be people who think that they can get digital just because they read from people like you that if you get a good analog signal you will get digital. That MAY be true but I am living proof that it is not a universal truth and it may actually be I am the rule and not the exception.


----------



## MLM

Just my $.02 on channel 13.


Something strange has been going on!


It was coming in strong during (30-60%) most of the year, but has deteriorated to the point that is now always unwatchable. We were away for the summer and since returning in September, it's been worse and worse.


I'm in Bayside with a CM outdoor UHF antenna in a third floor attic. I get everything else including NJ Public TV (50.1 and 50.2) NYC-TV (25.1) at 100%.


----------



## a72849

Most of the NYC area stations are sending the correct EST PSIP time. WPXN and WMBC are still one hour ahead. Did you wake up at 2 AM to set your clock back?


----------



## reddice

Yesterday I moved my RadioShack UFO antenna out of the closet and next to a window in my grandmothers room. I still can't get channel 2 but 4, 5 ,7 , 9 and 11 are stronger. 13 is still a lost cause. I don't even get a blimp out of that station. Even get stretched 25 stronger. 31 and 41 are still also a lost cause. The signal strength is still so sensitive. I have to have the antenna on top of a box and pointed right. If I move it just the slightest it goes from green to dropouts. Of course I still have no problems at all picking up that waste 29. Also 47 is easier to pick up. Go figure they are the furthest away (15 miles) and are the easiest to pick up.


That was yesterday. Who knows if the reception is better or worse today. But the closet thing was not improving my reception much so now it is next to a window pointing right.


----------



## O2C




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/14989716
> 
> 
> Back to my point. Your assumption was wrong. There will be people who think that they can get digital just because they read from people like you that if you get a good analog signal you will get digital. That MAY be true but I am living proof that it is not a universal truth and it may actually be I am the rule and not the exception.



A key point is that many stations (WNET being the worst offender) are not currently broadcasting their digital signal at "full" strength. This could be due to equipment issues, electrical costs, or an executive decision. Once the analog broadcasts shut off, many of those reasons will go away or be resolved. Given that most digital broadcasts are co-located with the analogs, getting good analog reception is strongly indicative of good digital reception once the shutdown takes place, and possibly now.


That is the reason some (myself included) are putting up with less than ideal digital reception and waiting until the digital stations are being broadcast at full strength and new locations.


----------



## tamahome02000

Plus digital 7, 11, & 13 will go back to their vhf frequencies. Don't know why 9 will lose theirs, but NJN is on 8.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/14991067
> 
> 
> Plus digital 7, 11, & 13 will go back to their vhf frequencies. Don't know why 9 will lose theirs, but NJN is on 8.



The reasons are, in order of importance:


WNJB-DT 8 (no longer an issue due to move to Times Square next year)

WTNH-DT 10

WBPH-DT 9

WEDH-DT 9


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14991130
> 
> 
> The reasons are, in order of importance:
> 
> 
> WNJB-DT 8 (no longer an issue due to move to Times Square next year)
> 
> WTNH-DT 10
> 
> WBPH-DT 9
> 
> WEDH-DT 9
> 
> 
> - Trip



Which means that in technical terms, after 2/17/09 NJ will no longer have a commercial VHF station, since WWOR-DT's signal is on RF 38.


----------



## SnellKrell

As of the transition, not having a commercial VHF station will not have the same meaning or impact that it once had.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14991265
> 
> 
> As of the transition, not having a commercial VHF station will not have the same meaning or impact that it once had.



True. I was just thinking about all the angst the state went through in past decades regarding that issue.


----------



## tamahome02000

I'm just saying the reception will be better when the frequencies get lower, especially 13.


----------



## reddice

I wonder that too. I can't wait to the day to see how 7, 11 and 13 come on after 2/17/2009. I don't know if the reception would be worse or better. I never got a digital high VHF station before. My antenna is ready because it can get low, high VHF and UHF.


----------



## SnellKrell

The New Jersey VHF history is interesting.


Channel 13, Newark, going back to WATV, was designated commercial, as allocated by the Commission.


Eventually, 13 became non-commercial WNDT.


Malfeasance was the reason that the owner of WOR-TV lost its license and that

license was redesignated to Secaucus, NJ where it adopted an additional "W" for

its call letters.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14958833
> 
> 
> I believe that all the Combiner stations are at full power.



Is WNET-DT on the combiner?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/14994436
> 
> 
> Yes!



Interesting. Still can't get it here, even though I can get everything else.


----------



## SnellKrell

Lowest power and highest channel allocation on the Combiner!


----------



## rothe

I can pick up WNET-DT fairly reliably down here in Monmouth County (07756), 37 miles due south of the ESB. As per my home theater PC software (Beyond TV), my Hauppauge tuner cards are typically showing a signal strength of "95." Of course, I have a monster of an antenna in the attic (Winegard HD 7698P) and a very low-noise pre-amp. Even so, I still get some dropouts during rainy weather like tonight.


----------



## jpru34

I also pick up WNET reliably with my Winegard 7694P in my attic and a HDP 269 Preamp. Here in Bergen County, I pick it up reliably although if the weather is really bad, I may have an occasional drop-out or two but nothing too bad.


----------



## reddice












This is how I have my antenna setup. The signal is so sensitive that I have to put the antenna on two boxes in order to get channel 7. If I only put it on the one box I go from four to five strong bars to nothing.


----------



## reddice

2 I get nothing. 4 is three bars but every now and then it breaks up, very annoying. 5 is four green bars. 7 is the strongest and I am able to get four to five green bars peaked at over 80. 9 shows four green bars but every now and then it breaks up, very annoying. 11 is about four green bars. 13 is a lost cause, nothing. I check my signal strength on that channel and I don't even peak 10.


After I did a rescan I have:

4.1,4.2, 4.4 added

5.1,5.2 added

7.1,7.2,7.3 added

9.1,9.2 added

11.1,11.2 added

25.1,25.2 added

29.1-29.10 deleted and you all know why

47.1 added

That is all the channels I can get now. What worries me is how is 7, 11 and 13 going to come in at high VHF as channel 8 I can barely pull in one weak bar.

This is yesterday. Who knows how it is today? If the reception is bad today you know I will let you all know.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/15014462
> 
> 
> I can pick up WNET-DT fairly reliably down here in Monmouth County (07756), 37 miles due south of the ESB. As per my home theater PC software (Beyond TV), my Hauppauge tuner cards are typically showing a signal strength of "95." Of course, I have a monster of an antenna in the attic (Winegard HD 7698P) and a very low-noise pre-amp. Even so, I still get some dropouts during rainy weather like tonight.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/15015142
> 
> 
> I also pick up WNET reliably with my Winegard 7694P in my attic and a HDP 269 Preamp. Here in Bergen County, I pick it up reliably although if the weather is really bad, I may have an occasional drop-out or two but nothing too bad.



Yeah well I live in Sussex county, 48 miles as the crow flies from the ESB. I also live behind hamburg mountain which greatly attenuates the signal. It's no Bergen or Monmouth county, that's for sure!


----------



## R.F. Burns

As of this morning I can now receive;

WFME's HD material (all 10 channels. Many audio only)


WNJM (channel 50) HD 1 & 2

WCBS, WNBC 4.1, 4.2, 4.4, WNYW 5.1, 5.2, WABC 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, WWOR 9.1, 9.2, WPIX11.1, 11.2, WNYE 25.1, 25.2, WPXN, 31/1, 31.2, 31.3, 31.4, 31.5, WXTV, 41.1, WNJU, 47.1, WMBC, 61.1, 61.2, 61.3, 61.4, 61.5, but no more WNET. I also receive a handful of low powered analog stations, channel 6, 17, 32, 35 & 39. I am 25 miles north of Manhattan, on the Jersey side of the Hudson.


----------



## reddice

I am surprised many of you can get WCBS Channel 2. I can't get anything on that channel. I can only peak it at about 20. A couple of months ago I was able to get that channel but it was weak but now I can't get anything. It is a pity because it has the best picture since it broadcasts in 1080i and it does not have any of those useless sub channels which I am discovering are really a waste and cause the main channel to look worse.


----------



## R.F. Burns

WNBC is also 1080i but I agree with you. WCBS has far and away the best video. 60 minutes in HD is visually impressive.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15024815
> 
> 
> I am surprised many of you can get WCBS Channel 2. I can't get anything on that channel. I can only peak it at about 20. A couple of months ago I was able to get that channel but it was weak but now I can't get anything. It is a pity because it has the best picture since it broadcasts in 1080i and it does not have any of those useless sub channels which I am discovering are really a waste and cause the main channel to look worse.



I'm 48 miles away and it comes in just fine.


----------



## LenL

Just because a station broadcasts in 1080I/720P or digital does not mean that what it is broadcasting was videoed using HD or even digital cameras. CBS has many shows that are not videoed using HD cameras. Ditto NBC and the other stations. There are 2 parts to the equation. Using HD cameras and broadcasting in HD. Most of the stations and their programming are not at 100% with both parts. There may even be differences in the quality of the video based on the quality of the HD cameras being used.


The Amazing race with all of the great scenery would be a natural for using HD cameras but guess what....they did not want to spend the money. Meanwhile lots of other shows on CBS that don't have great scenery are using HD cameras...go figure.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15030614
> 
> 
> The Amazing race with all of the great scenery would be a natural for using HD cameras but guess what....they did not want to spend the money. Meanwhile lots of other shows on CBS that don't have great scenery are using HD cameras...go figure.



I was led to believe that the Amazing Race is not in HD because they are forced to work with local crews in some of the countries they visit, and they do not have the requisite HD facilities.


----------



## LenL

This is what I found on the NET:


CBS' Amazing Race: Still Not In HD

The show's producer says it's not a priority.

By Swanni


Washington, D.C. (August 19, 2008) -- CBS' The Amazing Race will begin its 13th season next month, but it will still not be produced in High-Definition.


That's according to an article by the Associated Press.


Amazing Race fans were hopeful that the network would begin airing the reality/adventure show in high-def this year after announcing earlier this year that Survivor would be in HD this fall.


However, Amazing Race executive producer Bertram van Munster tells the AP that CBS still hasn't decided on whether to shoot the program in HD.


With the program's season debut just six weeks away (September 28), it seems safe to say that this season will not be in high-def. (The season has already been filmed; van Munster is now scouting venues for a 14th season.)


"I don't think it's a priority," van Munster said of the network's stance towards switching the program to HD.


----------



## LenL

Since you are so far out I would like to know what your OTA setup is as far as antenna, amp etc...


Also the stations you get and the reception levels.


Have you posted that somewhere on this forum?


I'm in Morris County in the Dover/Randoph area about 30 miles from NY.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15031588
> 
> 
> Since you are so far out I would like to know what your OTA setup is as far as antenna, amp etc...
> 
> 
> Also the stations you get and the reception levels.
> 
> 
> Have you posted that somewhere on this forum?
> 
> 
> I'm in Morris County in the Dover/Randoph area about 30 miles from NY.



I have posted it before, but here it is again for reference.


I'm a ham radio operator, so my TV antenna is on one of my ham radio towers. Approximate height is 70ft.


The antenna is a CM4228, and I am using an antennacraft permacolor 10G212 amplifier, 30dB variable.


I get everything reliably from the ESB except WNYW-DT and WNET-DT. Signal levels are 70s and 80s, with WNBC-DT in the 90s. No chance of WLIW or WLNY of course. They're simply too far. I also get WCAU-DT and KYW-DT from philly when there's good tropo. I haven't tried aiming the antenna there to see what I get, but there's a good chance I'll get the philly stations.


I also get WRNN-DT and WTBY-DT which broadcast from upstate NY, and WMBC-DT and WFME-DT.


----------



## jpru34

FYI - WWOR (DTV 9-1 & 9-2) is completely down as of 9:00 AM today. Not a big deal though b\\c you can watch the same programs on 5-1 & 5-2.


----------



## SnellKrell

5-2 is not being received by me.


----------



## SnellKrell

WWOR-DT back!


----------



## tahoejoe

Picked up a Phillips indoor antenna on clearance for $10 (75% off ) at Target. I've had trouble getting CBS (2-1)for some time using an old outdoor combo (vhf/uhf) antenna but I can usually get 4,5,7, 9, 11 and their subchannels with occasional dropouts from time to time, so I'd figure I'd give it a shot. Put the Phillips in my bay window on the 2nd floor and 2-1 comes in clearly, but the only other channel of the above I can get is 4. On channels other than 2, signal strength is stronger with the outdoor antenna than the Phillips, but not by an overwhelming amount for the one common channel(4). Is that strange or what?


----------



## dagger666

i'm 13 miles from nyc and get all the major channels fine. i'm using a monoprice indoor/outdoor HD antenna on my bed room wall and also get 13-01-02-03, 21-01-02-03-04(sometimes), 25-01-02, 31-01-02-03-04, 41-01, 50-01-02-03.


----------



## reddice

Then I don't get it that I am only 4 miles away and channel 2 I can only peak it at 20 and channel 13 I can only peak at 10. Channel 4 is not that strong either I can only get 3 yellow bars. I peak it at 60 but it keeps dropping out randomly which is very annoying to try to watch. Channels 5 and 7 are the strongest peaking them at 85. Channels 9 and 11 are stronger since I moved the antenna. I can usually peak them at around 70 but even though channel 9 shows strong it sometimes just breaks up and keeps dropping signal for no reasons.


----------



## StudioTech

WNYW-DT has (finally) debuted the 10:00 news in HD!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/15038117
> 
> 
> WNYW-DT has (finally) debuted the 10:00 news in HD!



About time. I never understood why the news was in SD but the aero shots in in HD.


----------



## SnellKrell

The "aero shots" are from a rented helicopter featuring HD equipment.


Rupert all along has played down the value and the investment in HD.


Just remember that when other networks had started to present some NFL games in HD,

Fox was doing its phony Wide Screen, SD broadcasts.


Tonight's local news oddly included local studio generated graphics in SD.


What 5 is doing is what others have done a combination of HD and SD - since 5 is so late producing in HD, I had expected a greater use of HD vs. the competition.


----------



## StudioTech

And Fox still does SD Widescreen on many of their shows.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15030614
> 
> 
> Just because a station broadcasts in 1080I/720P or digital does not mean that what it is broadcasting was videoed using HD or even digital cameras. CBS has many shows that are not videoed using HD cameras. Ditto NBC and the other stations. There are 2 parts to the equation. Using HD cameras and broadcasting in HD. Most of the stations and their programming are not at 100% with both parts. There may even be differences in the quality of the video based on the quality of the HD cameras being used.
> 
> 
> The Amazing race with all of the great scenery would be a natural for using HD cameras but guess what....they did not want to spend the money. Meanwhile lots of other shows on CBS that don't have great scenery are using HD cameras...go figure.



Yes, I am well aware of these facts. However, I've watched live sports being broadcast in HD on WNBC and compared the video image I get while watching live sports on WCBS and the image on WCBS is far superior, in my opinion. 60 Minutes which is being produced using new facilities at the BC on 57th street has stunning video. It's as close to the "looking through a pane of glass" as I've seen on broadcast television. I am of course talking about images received over the air and not through a third party source. I would guess that with WCBS being co-located with the net and the fact that they aren't downlinking the net feed via satellite, that the image I receive at home is about as good as its going to get, at least as far as current HD technology is concerned. I am also guessing that they deliver their signal to Empire over fiber.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15038025
> 
> 
> Then I don't get it that I am only 4 miles away and channel 2 I can only peak it at 20 and channel 13 I can only peak at 10. Channel 4 is not that strong either I can only get 3 yellow bars. I peak it at 60 but it keeps dropping out randomly which is very annoying to try to watch. Channels 5 and 7 are the strongest peaking them at 85. Channels 9 and 11 are stronger since I moved the antenna. I can usually peak them at around 70 but even though channel 9 shows strong it sometimes just breaks up and keeps dropping signal for no reasons.



Reddice, I live 25 miles away in LI and I pick up every station (except PBS) with a set of rabbit ears/ UHF bowtie laying inside my attic with about 50 feet RG6 going to the TV. I had to tweak it a bit to find a sweet spot. My point is try a different antenna, experiment and make sure you have RG6 going to the TV. Anything less and it won't be able to handle bandwidth of upper UHF channels like 56.

Recently at work, I replaced RG59 that was feeding from our antenna on the roof down to a distribution closet because channels would cut in and out. Since replacing it, no more dropouts.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/15043044
> 
> 
> Yes, I am well aware of these facts. However, I've watched live sports being broadcast in HD on WNBC and compared the video image I get while watching live sports on WCBS and the image on WCBS is far superior, in my opinion. 60 Minutes which is being produced using new facilities at the BC on 57th street has stunning video. It's as close to the "looking through a pane of glass" as I've seen on broadcast television. I am of course talking about images received over the air and not through a third party source. I would guess that with WCBS being co-located with the net and the fact that they aren't downlinking the net feed via satellite, that the image I receive at home is about as good as its going to get, at least as far as current HD technology is concerned. I am also guessing that they deliver their signal to Empire over fiber.



Plus the fact that WCBS has no sub-channels taking away bandwidth from the main channel.


----------



## LenL

My 2 cents ...I want to mention that even though 2 channels are broadcasting in HD (in your case you compared CBS and NBC) that does not mean the cameras being used on the field are the same quality etc.. I really don't think bandwith has anything to do with it. With digital they send out a HD digital signal 1080i or 720p and you either receive it or you don't. End of story. The quality of the picture will be affected by the cameras, lighting and other factors.


You must have a digital camera. If you do have one, you know that the quality of the pictures you take are affected by a number of variables. The same camera will give you different results based on those variables. You also know that if you spend a few more bucks on a new one you could get even better results.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's difficult and dangerous to speak in generalities - but...


Let's not compare professional cameras used in television production with home digital cameras. The cameras used in network productions, yes will vary, but not to that big of an extent. Yes, lighting will affect the look of a picture.


The major difference comes down to bits. When you start taking away bits from HD to feed weather channels, news channels, etc., the HD picture pays the price.


As compression will undoubtedly improve, so will our pictures.


NBC viewers now pay a price by way of their affiliates providing sub-channels.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15047081
> 
> 
> I really don't think bandwith has anything to do with it. With digital they send out a HD digital signal 1080i or 720p and you either receive it or you don't. End of story.



Then you think incorrectly. Very certainly bandwidth has *everything* to do with it. While there are certainly differences in cameras and production quality, the vast majority of quality issues with broadcasts like this are related to bandwidth. Camera quality will not cause macroblocking.


Fact is that the ATSC standard constrains bandwidth at 19.393 Mbps. WCBS chooses to dedicate almost all of that to their HD picture (not all, because some goes to audio, guide data, etc). WNBC, however, compresses their HD down and adds two subchannels, which means the HD gets less of that 19.393 Mbps. You simply cannot transmit the same amount of data using less bandwidth.


Compare:


WNBC: 12.3 Mbps
http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../47535-0_0.htm 


WCBS: 16.44 Mbps (Dynamically changing, I think I saw it as high as 17.5)
http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...c/9610-0_0.htm 


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip -


You said it and demonstrated it so well!


Thanks


----------



## BrooklynGal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrooklynGal* /forum/post/14944190
> 
> 
> NYDTVGeeks:
> 
> Would you consider testing out Ave R and East 17 Street vicinity - 11229 zip while you are out in Bklyn? This is about 10 miles from ESB.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, if you can, I'd appreciate your feedback on my neighborhood. You may not see me posting back for a while, I've got some medical tests scheduled for the next few days, but I will follow up as soon as I next get to my computer.



Last nite I was watching abc 7 Dancing With the Stars digitally, with decent enough reception, for a change. Part way through, it just went black & 7.3 appeared in its place - I had done nothing. After tuning both the converter box & antenna, without getting anything abc except 7.3, I switched off the tuner & used the analog pass-through to watch what was left. Blurry, but there. What was that all about?


Digitally, I currently get 2 sporadically, 4 & 7 almost never, 5.1 & 2, 25 are decent, 9.1 & 2 & 11 occasionally come in, when they do, reception is adequate. 13 hasn't showed up yet. Was getting 50, now its gone. Even 47/ 68/ 29, which used to be strong -- though useless to me -- have gone off the radar, as has 31. On analog, I pulled in 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,25,31,49,50,68 -- with varying amts of static/noise depending. 7 once was my best bet for analog reception, the only dependable station, now it is iffy on analog.


I'm guessing all this is related to the changes they're putting into place before Feb. Just hope after that there's reception, for now every time I put it on it's wasting time re-scanning & re-positioning all over again for very poor results.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15047356
> 
> 
> WNBC, however, compresses their HD down and adds two subchannels, which means the HD gets less of that 19.393 Mbps. You simply cannot transmit the same amount of data using less bandwidth.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Exactly, who the hell wants to watch a 24hr weather channel when you can just go on the internet or watch the Weather Channel itself

And who wants to watch swimming, cycling or whatever else they put on the other sub.


----------



## raddiux




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15047145
> 
> 
> 
> As compression will undoubtedly improve, so will our pictures.



Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think the current compression (MPEG2) will be changing anytime soon.


----------



## SnellKrell

My DirecTV's HD service has recently been udated from MPEG2 to MPEG4.


Not sure what the networks are now using to feed their affiliates.


----------



## dagger666

I really see no difference between 02-01 and 04-01 even with the sub channels on 4. What i noticed the higher single metter readings on my tv the more defined the picture. Remeber none of these channels have gone full power yet and i'm guessing this prep phase is costing them pleanty to have both analog and digital feeds going so they aren't until 2009.


----------



## SnellKrell

Both WCBS-DT and WNBC-DT are at their full authorized power.


Come the transition, both will remain on the current Combiner that they are now using.


The only change will be that WCBS-DT will move from Channel 56 using 349kW to Channel 33 using 284kW- different power, different frequency.


WNBC-DT will continue transmitting on Channel 28 with 200.2kW.


----------



## LenL

Snellkrell,


I agree with Dagger. You can throw out those stats about compression all you want. Fact is unless you can compare the exact, and I mean exact same programming being broadcast on each channel at the same time there is no scientific way to prove which is better.


Subjectively I also feel my channel 4.1 is slightly better than my 2.1 even though NBC has subchannels.


----------



## SnellKrell

There were no stats about compression thrown out by me.


Have no idea what you're talking about.


The stats were ERP transmission output expressed in Watts.


That's all!


----------



## Trip in VA

SnellKrell, if people don't want to listen to rational arguments that every broadcast professional would tell a person, then it's not worth arguing. As long as they're not broadcasting that incorrect information to others, don't worry yourself.


The very idea that a stronger digital signal provides "increased clarity" is completely wrong. Bitrates do not vary with power levels. Only pixelization from very borderline signals could even come close to explaining that argument. Same for the idea of 4-1 looking better than 2-1. In still images, sure, it's possible. In motion, though, there would be no comparison unless there was some issue with the source material on 2-1.


Thousands of engineers know these facts. There is no debate. There is only how you perceive the picture to be. If you perceive it as better, then that's fine and dandy. That doesn't make the picture any less degraded (in the case of the subchannels) or any sharper (in the case of the stronger signal).


- Trip


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15051934
> 
> 
> Both WCBS-DT and WNBC-DT are at their full authorized power.
> 
> 
> Come the transition, both will remain on the current Combiner that they are now using.
> 
> 
> The only change will be that WCBS-DT will move from Channel 56 using 349kW to Channel 33 using 284kW- different power, different frequency.
> 
> 
> WNBC-DT will continue transmitting on Channel 28 with 200.2kW.



WCBS-DT is a lost cause. Can't get nothing. So if they are running at full power then why can't I get them. I have the antenna pointed in the same direction as all the other channels. Also WNBC-DT has been weaker the past few weeks. The reception was great during the Olympics so I think you are wrong. They were running at more power during the Olympics but now they are not.


Also if channel 13 actually broadcasted from Newark then I would have no problem picking them up. Stupid to say they are from Newark but not broadcast there.


----------



## LenL

Just to debunk what both of you have been saying about NBC having subchannels and CBS doesn't so CBS MUST have a better picture.


Last night I caught a Seinfeld episode being broadcast in HD 1080i. While this wasn't on CBS it does prove my point that CBS or any station for that matter can broadcast programming in HD that was NOT videoed with HD cameras. It will look good but not as good as it could look. Also just because CBS is using the full bandwigth does not mean they are sending true HD video recorded programming to our TV sets. There are lots of reruns on TV coming across with a HD 1080i or 720p signal that were not videoed with HD camera equipement. I bet to save money it is happening today too.


----------



## LenL

If you have a computer go to TV fool.Com You can key in your address and you will find out what you can get today and post Feb/2009.


You will also see that contrary to what some posters are saying here, there are some stations who will be increasing their signal strength post Feb/2009. I certainly expect to have more stations come in with better reception as a result of the numbers they gave me. I put a spreadsheet together with numbers for the reception I get today and what to expect after Feb/2009 and the improvements I should see are very nice!


It's not perfect but I found that it comes very close to reality.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15062417
> 
> 
> Just to debunk what both of you have been saying about NBC having subchannels and CBS doesn't so CBS MUST have a better picture.
> 
> 
> Last night I caught a Seinfeld episode being broadcast in HD 1080i. While this wasn't on CBS it does prove my point that CBS or any station for that matter can broadcast programming in HD that was NOT videoed with HD cameras. It will look good but not as good as it could look. Also just because CBS is using the full bandwigth does not mean they are sending true HD video recorded programming to our TV sets. There are lots of reruns on TV coming across with a HD 1080i or 720p signal that were not videoed with HD camera equipement. I bet to save money it is happening today too.



Stop putting words in people's mouths. Nobody here has said what you're claiming they said.


We're not talking about clarity, we're talking about pixelization. I in fact stated this:



> Quote:
> While there are certainly differences in cameras and production quality, the vast majority of quality issues with broadcasts like this are related to bandwidth. Camera quality will not cause macroblocking.



So of course there can be differences in production equipment. Believe me, I've seen poorly-produced "HD" broadcasts. But overall, 99% of issues I've seen with quality are pixelization, and most of that is caused by bandwidth.


- Trip


----------



## Slikkster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15062417
> 
> 
> Just to debunk what both of you have been saying about NBC having subchannels and CBS doesn't so CBS MUST have a better picture.
> 
> 
> Last night I caught a Seinfeld episode being broadcast in HD 1080i. While this wasn't on CBS it does prove my point that CBS or any station for that matter can broadcast programming in HD that was NOT videoed with HD cameras. It will look good but not as good as it could look. Also just because CBS is using the full bandwigth does not mean they are sending true HD video recorded programming to our TV sets. There are lots of reruns on TV coming across with a HD 1080i or 720p signal that were not videoed with HD camera equipement. I bet to save money it is happening today too.



I'm not following your argument. I'm assuming you caught Seinfeld on TBS-HD. Seinfeld WAS recorded on "HD" equipment, in that it was captured on 35mm film. Sony has remastered the episodes. I haven't seen any of the other rerun stations carrying these "HD" episodes that are in 16:9 (and truly look great compared to the SD print copies). They did have to do some cropping to get the 16:9 aspect ratio, but I don't see anything in the episodes that are essential that are missing.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/03...-hd-on-tbs-hd/ 


So, now that you know, what does your rerun argument have to do with 1080i/CBS/NBC? I would say that CBS has the _potential_ to look better than NBC/ABC given that it is full-bandwidth. Full-bandwidth means less necessity to compress. The question becomes at what level of compression is picture quality noticeably degraded?


There's a good wiki about DTV subchannels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subchannel 


Scroll down to the "Technical Considerations" section of the page.


All of that said, it's always garbage in, garbage out (gigo). No matter the bandwidth, if the original content looks terrible to begin with, it's going to remain that way. Whether a station transmits in 1080i or 720p makes no difference if the source material is poor.


----------



## kousikb

IMO, videophiles absolutely hate sub channels, but normal users like me really don't care and will be more than happy with more content. Yes I have seen numerous instances of pixellation during olympics. But I have seen it during the baseball games in FOX5 and CW11 too which has just one subchannel. So it may be a lot do with the source material and the production quality too. I don't remember seeing any pixellations for high speed/action scenes in Heroes/knight rider (is it in NBC.. can't remember..) or any other HD episodes with lot of action content. And I have seen the same HD feed in couple of my friends house (having cablevision or Comcast). I have noticed much more pixellation in cable HD contents (barring few channels like HD Theater where there are hardly any action scenes) compared to my OTA setup. I haven't seen any satellite setup though, so can't comment on them. If cable cos can get away with so much compression without many users complaining, I'd say that NBC is lot better and I would rather have more channels with 2-4 pixellations in a day. And yes, people like me who rely on free OTA only (no satellite or cable), I really don't mind two weather channels braodcasing 24 hr weather. Yes, I have a HTPC and a laptop to check weather.com but its more convenient to switch on the TV before I start my morning commute and check the weather. Probably, they can better use the channels if they put 24 hr news in those subchannels with weather so that the subchannels can be made popular and advertisement worthy.


----------



## LenL

I agree with you and I think your comments support my original posts on this subject. Sienfeld was videoed in the 90's and surely the camera technology today is far better! I doubt that it was done with todays HD cameras. As you say 35MM analog technology. Not bad. But I suspect the video had to be processed to bring it to the digital world of today as you suggest. Also there are reruns of many other shows filmed in the 80s and 90s broadcast (yes on cable) in HD.


Also I think that if NBC felt the quality of their HD broadcasts were inferior fo CBS they would drop the compression and the subchannels.


I have both cablevision and OTA and the picture on both for like HD local channels and programming is very close. I can't really tell if one is better than the other.


----------



## LenL

I also agree with you. the subchannels may not be useful for many but is is nice to have the extra programming. I use them for weather and sometimes watch the sports.


----------



## Slikkster

Here's actually a very good article from Popular Mechanics (and a very easy read, too) that details HDTV and video compression. It's interesting to see that there are very few rules about its use (compression, that is). Note the methodology of using "statistical multiplexing", too, in the article.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...63.html?page=1 


One thing I had to laugh at, though, was the remark about "videophiles" hating subchannels. No one could possibly consider broadcast television --even at full DTV/HDTV bandwidth-- as anything approaching what a videophile would expect to see. The article above states that an uncompressed HDTV stream would require up to *52 times* the data capacity allocated to a DTV channel!


----------



## LenL

Let's get serious and realistic here.


Watching OTA in HD is great but I think what most videophiles who get OTA want is HD and CONTENT! More channels with more GREAT programming! That takes priority in my mind over getting 1080p. Let's use the subchannels for real programs.


Anyone know why NBC and FOX could not broadcast the other channels they own on their sub channels? How about CNBC on 4.2, the Weather Channel on 4.3 and Fox News on 5.2? Could ABC put some programming it owns on its subchannels?


Wow! What an idea! Let's all lobby the networks!


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Slikkster* /forum/post/15065653
> 
> 
> One thing I had to laugh at, though, was the remark about "videophiles" hating subchannels. No one could possibly consider broadcast television --even at full DTV/HDTV bandwidth-- as anything approaching what a videophile would expect to see. The article above states that an uncompressed HDTV stream would require up to *52 times* the data capacity allocated to a DTV channel!



Videophiles are known to be early adoptors of any technology in their quest for that "perfect picture". But it's difficult to satisfy them even with all the expensive setup and its a common human nature to find flaws in the setup and start searching for the next best. I am not saying its bad, this is how technology becomes mainstream, if they were not there, technology adoption would be slow and expensive to mainstream consumers. Now about picture quality I frequently hear that Blu-ray has the ultimate quality and next comes in OTA HDTV (okay there are some on-demand content with 1080p which may be better but is still disputed). Yes, theoretically OTA HDTV may be laughable (per the specs mentioned by you) to hard core videophiles, but to lot of uninitiated videophiles these may be the next best thing after Blu-Ray.

I have a friend, who had a perefect setup with the latest and greatest samsung 46" LCD TV (120Hz and all) with decent speakers (harman Kardon) and receivers (Onkyo top of the line). He was happy and content with his setup. But the minute he started reading different threads in avs, he became dissatisfied with his setup. He started to find flaws in his setup based on others people bragging on their systems spec and discussions you will see in other forums on this site. He now wishes that he will upgrade to "better setup" once he saves up more money. The point I am trying to make is: videophiles can brag about the specs and that "perfect picture" and "perfect sound". But human beings can distinguish the picture quality/sound quality difference to a certain limited level. After that it comes down to the spec/monster like marketing (I paid more, so it must be superior)/Exotic packaging (e.g. nitrogen filled cable).


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15066155
> 
> 
> Anyone know why NBC and FOX could not broadcast the other channels they own on their sub channels? How about CNBC on 4.2, the Weather Channel on 4.3 and Fox News on 5.2? Could ABC put some programming it owns on its subchannels?



Because they receive a fee from the cable/satellite companies for each subscriber, and would not be willing to jeopardize that money in order to make those channels available over the air.


I've seen several requests made specifically for MSNBC on NBC stations and a resounding "No" has come back from stations for exactly that reason.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Boy is 11 screwed up.


First, no HD.


Now in HD but wrong audio!


----------



## SnellKrell

Finally got the game's audio right.


Glad I can get NFL Network via DirecTV!


----------



## ooPAYNEoo

LOL so it's not just me!


What are they trying to say about the Jets with this soap opera crap overdub?


----------



## OWENF

Where was that audio from ?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OWENF* /forum/post/15067416
> 
> 
> Where was that audio from ?



From the CW show that normally airs at this time.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15067064
> 
> 
> Because they receive a fee from the cable/satellite companies for each subscriber, and would not be willing to jeopardize that money in order to make those channels available over the air.
> 
> 
> I've seen several requests made specifically for MSNBC on NBC stations and a resounding "No" has come back from stations for exactly that reason.
> 
> 
> - Trip



well as more disposable income dries up and people cancel cable/satellite that may change. Any money them make from cable/satellite can easily be made up by advertisers on these Channel's.


----------



## POWERFUL

Also MSNBC allows you to watch many of their prime time shows on downloadable podcasts and streaming on the show's website.


----------



## LenL

You may be right I don't know. But I also see that all cable shows (except for premium stuff) have commercial breaks. Lots of commercials in fact. When you think about the 100 or more cable channels that are being viewed, there is really lots of programming for people to watch. The actual number of people watching CNBC or Fox News is relatively small given all the options (channels/choices) they have to watch.


On the other hand you put CNBC or FoxNEWs on OTA sub channels and voila they are only competing with about 10 other channels for viewership. While the overall number of people viewing OTA is low the number that would watch CNBC might be quite good compared to those on Cable. The commercials being viewed would be the source of revenue just as it is for other OTA channels.


You start adding more good content to OTA and the audiance will grow and you can start getting more money for the commerical time. Plus if you add more competition to cable/Satellite they may have to lower fees to keep business.


I think it has merit....now if only the executives at NBC etc. could do some stretch thinking!


----------



## Trip in VA

The thing to keep in mind, though, is that some of these fees are pretty high. As I recall, Fox News might get something like 75 cents per subscriber. Assuming I'm doing the math right (and that's a big assumption) if 75% of households (a low estimate, I found an article suggesting there are 111,000,000 households in the US) have cable/satellite and indirectly pay Fox for Fox news, that's roughly $62 million. With a slumping advertisement market, I'm not sure that Fox would be willing to part with a revenue stream like that in order to gain a relatively few OTA households, half of which likely won't watch Fox News anyway given its perceived bias.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip -


I have heard that ESPN gets around $2.60 per sub.


The normal break between ad revenue and fees paid by cable/satellite is 50-50.


----------



## LenL

Trip and Snell,


I can see your points.


However if NBC and others are already broadcasting OTA and they also are getting payments from Cable/Sat companies who pay them to HAVE the right to add them to their packages then what problem would there be if NBC added MSNBC etc to thier OTA programming?


If people are already watching NBC OTA, or even if they get rid of cable to watch NBC OTA, to think that adding MSNBC would make any difference is questionable. Sure if OTA added more programming at some point people may get rid of Cable/Sat. However It will still be a drop in the bucket as many people simply want all of the movies, sports etc. that Cable/Sat provides.


Bottom line is I think it is a non issue and NO/LOW impact to Cable/Sat and major networks if the networks were to add some real programming to their sub channels.


I guess it is a moot point anyway as it isn't about to happen....but I think all of us OTA viewers wish they would do it.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15067064
> 
> 
> Because they receive a fee from the cable/satellite companies for each subscriber, and would not be willing to jeopardize that money in order to make those channels available over the air.
> 
> 
> I've seen several requests made specifically for MSNBC on NBC stations and a resounding "No" has come back from stations for exactly that reason.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Not to mention there is also a lot of re-use and sharing of content to and from O&O's/affiliates and vice-versa. We tend to use a lot of affiliate air, especially when a major news event pops up out of the blue, it's easy to tap in to the affiliate coverage then send out our own news crews. Likewise the O&O's and affiliates use our air for major news events that we're already covering.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/15067495
> 
> 
> well as more disposable income dries up and people cancel cable/satellite that may change. Any money them make from cable/satellite can easily be made up by advertisers on these Channel's.



You may think that's true, but it really isn't.


----------



## ja2bk

As a viewer, the idea of cable nets on OTA sounds great. As a service provider, it is not so great. Broadcast only has one revenue stream (ads) while cable has two (ads + sub fees). All the broadcasters are owned by/own entities that have cable nets. The decline on their sheets is coming from broadcast. So, they aren't likely to put more of their content in that realm.

Might be a good idea for some new programmers who are having trouble getting cable carriage though.


----------



## SnellKrell

For those who are proposing that broadcast stations use their sub-channels to transmit "cable networks," just ponder this -


Cable networks are barely regulated by the FCC - programs broadcast O-T-A are!


Ponder that one!


----------



## dagger666

I don't need more news on the sub channels but I'm talking like ABC family and cartoon network kind of like Ion has broken up their channels into Ion main 31-01, 31-02 children programing, 31-03 improvement channels, 31-04 worship ugh. When milk is $4.00+ gallon and food going ever so higher something has to give and it will be pay TV. channels 04-04 Universal sports has plenty of viewers, i watch the hockey. We could very much start to see a ABC-1 and 2 develop in the feature. It's early but digital OTA TV i think has leveled the playing field and now the ball is in their court. Remember there was a scrambled movie channel in the 70's early 80's on VHF that did pretty good.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/15076957
> 
> 
> I don't need more news on the sub channels but I'm talking like ABC family and cartoon network kind of like Ion has broken up their channels into Ion main 31-01, 31-02 children programing, 31-03 improvement channels, 31-04 worship ugh. When milk is $4.00+ gallon and food going ever so higher something has to give and it will be pay TV. channels 04-04 Universal sports has plenty of viewers, i watch the hockey. We could very much start to see a ABC-1 and 2 develop in the feature. It's early but digital OTA TV i think has leveled the playing field and now the ball is in their court. Remember there was a scrambled movie channel in the 70's early 80's on VHF that did pretty good.



There is plenty of good children's programming OTA right now, but most of it is educational due to E/I requirements by the FCC.


----------



## tahoejoe

After having problems receiving CBS-DT ( as well as occasional spotty reception on 4, 5, 7, 9,11 and their sub channels) with an old outdoor combo antenna on the rooftop, I took a chance on the $30 outdoor UHF only Radio Shack Model: U-75R. Stuck it in my attic and now receive a good CBS-DT signal in addition to 4, 5, 7, 9,11, 31 and their sub channels. If you read the reviews on the RS web site, it looks like others have had pretty good results with attic placement for those leery about going up on the roof.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/15086137
> 
> 
> After having problems receiving CBS-DT ( as well as occasional spotty reception on 4, 5, 7, 9,11 and their sub channels) with an old outdoor combo antenna on the rooftop, I took a chance on the $30 outdoor UHF only Radio Shack Model: U-75R. Stuck it in my attic and now receive a good CBS-DT signal in addition to 4, 5, 7, 9,11, 31 and their sub channels. If you read the reviews on the RS web site, it looks like others have had pretty good results with attic placement for those leery about going up on the roof.



That's wierd you have better reception on an indoor antenna than an outdoor one, but glad it worked out. We have a U-75R at work to pull in OTA stations about 18 miles away, and so far so good.


Ironically, I live 25 miles away from ESB, and I just have a $3.99 UHF bowtie nailed up to my rafters in the attic, and I pull in the same stations as you . Go figure.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT appears to be doing work on the ESB - power way down, imagine the station has switched over to Conde Nast (4 Times Square) for transmission.


----------



## SnellKrell

A lot of work must be going on at the ESB.


Only Combiner stations I'm currently getting are 4 and 7, and as I previously posted, I imagine that 7 is coming from Conde Nast.




At about 1 pm, stations back to "relative" normal readings - except for 7 - again, presume stations has been on Conde Nast -

and hasn't switched back to ESB.


----------



## jpru34

Anyone have any idea as to what kind of work they currently are doing (or completed today) on the ESB? I wish there was a way to find out about these things in advance or even after the fact as many people rely on OTA transmission to receive their tv reception.


----------



## LenL

I have checked signal strengths at 2 locations within 1/2 mile of each other. Back in in Aug/Sept I got signals from CBS and ABC that were a lot stronger than they are today from both locations. Now they are about 11 to 15% weaker. Other stations are about the same or a tad weaker.


Something is going on.....perhaps with the economy down the tubes the stations are cutting power to save money....


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15097447
> 
> 
> I have checked signal strengths at 2 locations within 1/2 mile of each other. Back in in Aug/Sept I got signals from CBS and ABC that were a lot stronger than they are today from both locations. Now they are about 11 to 15% weaker. Other stations are about the same or a tad weaker.
> 
> 
> Something is going on.....perhaps with the economy down the tubes the stations are cutting power to save money....



We haven't gotten that bad, yet.


The only stations in the area that have cut power because of budget problems have been those in the NJN group. They filed with the FCC about that matter - and it's public record.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT is back on ESB!


----------



## SnellKrell

They're back!


Work, once again, is being done on the ESB Combiner - power way, way down!


----------



## jmcnally




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15103245
> 
> 
> They're back!
> 
> 
> Work, once again, is being done on the ESB Combiner - power way, way down!



Yeah. Must be: CBS-DT is down to one bar of signal strength. I usually get 4-5. WWOR-DT, WPIX-DT and WNET-DT are down to zero. Funnily enough, WNYW-DT is still way strong at 9 bars.


Does anyone know why channel 5 seems independent of the power fluctuations that affect the other channels -- are they NOT on the combiner?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, because 5 is "independent."


It is not a part of the Combiner project and has its own antenna on the ESB - not shared as with the Combiner stations.


----------



## SnellKrell

We're back on the Combiner - except for 7 which hasn't switched back yet from

Conde Nast to ESB.


----------



## mantosof

I bought a Zenith DTT901 and hooked it up to my 21 inch CRT screen using a huge stationary (unmovable) on roof antenna. Without the Zenith I get all channels beautifully.


With the box, channel 2 (CBS) and channel 13 (WNET) do not come in at all.

I constantly get "no signal"?


I live in New York zip 11364.


Is my box broken?? I called Zenith and they said, they are working to get all channels by Feb...but i cannot return the box after 30 days.


I have 3 other tvs I need boxes for also coaxial connected to the roof antenna. I dont know if i should try an APEX (can get one at Best Buy..i think), or buy more Zeniths - hoping this will resolve around February.


Any NYers out there with this problem?


THANKS!


----------



## SnellKrell

Come the changeover in February, WCBS-DT will be taking over UHF Channel 33, currently being used by WPIX-DT. It "might" be safe to assume that if you're receiving WPIX-DT without problem, WCBS-DT "should" come in alright.


Concerning WNET-DT - it will changing channels from UHF 61 to VHF 13. In addition, the station will be changing its position on the Empire State Building. It will be higher.


This should help you - I imagine your huge stationary antenna will receive both Hi-VHF and UHF.


What is your location - 11364 and how far from the Empiire State Buidling - guess is you don't have line-of-sight to the TV Mast.


----------



## R.F. Burns

According to the FCC data base, WPIX is running 160 Kw on channel 33 with a haat of 397 meters. WCBS will be running 284 Kw after the Feb switch on the same channel with an antenna at the same 397 meter height. WCBS also has a CP for 225 Kw on channel 33 at 519.1 meters. That I would guess is for the location of the WTC replacement antenna and it will be many years before that takes effect. Early this morning I was able to receive both channel 50 and WNET in HD in Rockland County. I can only assume due to band enhancement. What I never understood was why WPIX was assigned channel 33 instead of the current CBS channel. That way WCBS could have installed their permenant transmitter, running the legal 284 Kw and then only WPIX would have had to change in February.


----------



## SnellKrell

When the assignments were first made, there was then no concept of the government reclaiming spectrum, which includes WCBS-DT's Channel 56.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/15107814
> 
> 
> What I never understood was why WPIX was assigned channel 33 instead of the current CBS channel. That way WCBS could have installed their permenant transmitter, running the legal 284 Kw and then only WPIX would have had to change in February.



1. FCC channel assignments were random. A computer program chose channels that would best replicate the analog contour. Because in a lot of places only very high UHFs were open enough to replicate, many low-VHFs with large coverage areas ended up on high channel numbers.


2. Originally, the FCC planned to make the final digital spectrum channels 7-59, so WCBS-DT would have been able to stay on 56. Stations whined and complained about losing channels 2-51 without realizing how awful they were, so the FCC changed it to 2-6. Nobody's laughing now.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

R.F. -


If you think CBS in New York is a bit strange, when Trip has a few hours he can tell you about the horrors concerning WBBM - CBS Chicago!


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/15068817
> 
> 
> Also MSNBC allows you to watch many of their prime time shows on downloadable podcasts and streaming on the show's website.



I won't be downloading podcasts or streaming come 2009, when my ISP invokes a 5GB monthly cap on ADSL service.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15107940
> 
> 
> 2. Originally, the FCC planned to make the final digital spectrum channels 7-59, so WCBS-DT would have been able to stay on 56. Stations whined and complained about losing channels 2-*6* without realizing how awful they were, so the FCC changed it to 2-*51*. Nobody's laughing now.



Made minor corrections to the above.


7-59 would have been so much better than what we are left with now. Core = 2-51? That's what makes me laugh. 52-59 are "slightly" more valuable than 2-6. Can we "un-auction" those?










Wasn't the original plan to keep 14-69 and auction 2-13?


----------



## Trip in VA

That's really weird, I edited my post hours ago, and it still shows 2-6. I tried editing it again now, and it brings up the corrected 2-51, even though it's still showing 2-6 when I save it for some reason.


The very original plan was 14-69 only, but the FCC's final plan was 7-59 since they wanted 60-69 for public safety and 7-13 proved to be usable.


- Trip


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/15109944
> 
> 
> I won't be downloading podcasts or streaming come 2009, when my ISP invokes a 5GB monthly cap on ADSL service.



Well don't you have a choice of providers to choose from?


----------



## SnellKrell

Tuned into "Live From Lincoln Center" on 13.1.


Audio is terrible!


Only 2.0, crackling sounds at times, and those times are way too often.


Switched to TWC feed - exactly the same thing.


Can't believe that 2.0 is all the producers wanted.


----------



## SnellKrell

Noticed the audio sounding better - full and no clicks.


Checked my processor and instead of it indicating just "Dolby Digital" - it is now showing

"Dolby Pro-Logic II."


Obviously, something was very wrong, so a switch was made.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15073042
> 
> 
> Trip and Snell,
> 
> 
> I can see your points.
> 
> 
> However if NBC and others are already broadcasting OTA and they also are getting payments from Cable/Sat companies who pay them to HAVE the right to add them to their packages then what problem would there be if NBC added MSNBC etc to thier OTA programming?
> 
> 
> If people are already watching NBC OTA, or even if they get rid of cable to watch NBC OTA, to think that adding MSNBC would make any difference is questionable. Sure if OTA added more programming at some point people may get rid of Cable/Sat. However It will still be a drop in the bucket as many people simply want all of the movies, sports etc. that Cable/Sat provides.
> 
> 
> Bottom line is I think it is a non issue and NO/LOW impact to Cable/Sat and major networks if the networks were to add some real programming to their sub channels.
> 
> 
> I guess it is a moot point anyway as it isn't about to happen....but I think all of us OTA viewers wish they would do it.



I found it interesting that WNBC appears to have upgraded their studio....yet they are still framing for 4:3...and even more interestingly, in the vain of this post, they CONTINUE to ignore giving their OTA viewers the simple fact that they can tune into 4-2 for weather information (I.e. "stay here with us at NBC---don't tune to another station for news/info").


Instead, when I was watching the 6am news yesterday, Chris Cimino told viewers to tune into the Weather Channel on their local systems for weather updates....or was I just imagining that? I know the weather channel logo flashed up on the screen...and I could've sworn I heard the words "Weather Channel" and local cable system come out of his mouth.


So, I guess you just have to follow the $$$ signs in that equation then eh?


----------



## SnellKrell

Of course stations are framing their pictures for 4.3 - the majority of viewers do not receive 16.9. Stations cannot and should not forget the composition of their audience.


Weather + is in God's waiting room. I believe it's a gonner come January.


GE, parent of NBC Universal, now owns a large piece of the Weather Channel and is that network's managing partner. Hence the shift from promoting Weather + to now pushing the Weather Channel.


----------



## jaypb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15119181
> 
> 
> Of course stations are framing their pictures for 4.3 - the majority of viewers do not receive 16.9. Stations cannot and should not forget the composition of their audience.
> 
> 
> Weather + is in God's waiting room. I believe it's a gonner come January.
> 
> 
> GE, parent of NBC Universal, now owns a large piece of the Weather Channel and is that network's managing partner. Hence the shift from promoting Weather + to now pushing the Weather Channel.



Trust me...I understand the logic for still framing for 4:3...but will this continue come 2/19/09? Even my wife said to me, "Why is the NBC logo still on the guy's lapel...and why does the scroll start over in the middle of the screen?"


As far as the weather plus dying a slow, eventual death...they never promoted the OTA aspect of this feed anyways. I NEVER recall hearing ANYONE on NBC say we have a few more subchannels available for you tools who are watching OTA. They ALWAYS said that weather plus was available on these channels on the following cable providers....again, they never promoted the feature for OTA users...so how important are "we"?


And I figured that NBC/GE had a stake in the weather channel. I cant' wait for that storyline to make it into "30 Rock".....


----------



## SnellKrell

2/18 will not be a magic date when the majority of the audience will be able to properly see and enjoy 16.9.


Most viewers will not want Wide Screen and have their overall picture shrink. This is especially true the smaller the screen size. Althought things are getting more aceptable - Letterboxing and Pillars continue to be anathema to the public


The framing that you dislike will be with us for a long while - that is, until the "vast" majority of the audience have Wide Screen sets.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/15119104
> 
> 
> they CONTINUE to ignore giving their OTA viewers the simple fact that they can tune into 4-2 for weather information (I.e. "stay here with us at NBC---don't tune to another station for news/info").



This reminds me of what happened in the LA area when we had those bad fires over the past weekend. ABC had to break away for a football game, but they said, please tune into ABC+ to continue watching coverage on the fires. They then listed the channel numbers on several cable providers, but completely neglected the presence of 7.2 ABC+ subchannel, which continued coverage on the fires.


Are the broadcasters hearts in this? I can't remember even one of the local broadcasters mentioning that they had an HD signal available OTA. Heaven forbid that viewers wouldn't go to cable or satellite to get such services!










According to the ads, "Crazy" is not hooking up your HDTV to D*, but I've seen plenty of craziness by hooking up HDTV's to analog pay sources when free HD signals are readily available OTA.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/15119590
> 
> 
> This reminds me of what happened in the LA area when we had those bad fires over the past weekend. ABC had to break away for a football game, but they said, please tune into ABC+ to continue watching coverage on the fires. They then listed the channel numbers on several cable providers, but completely neglected the presence of 7.2 ABC+ subchannel, which continued coverage on the fires.



Almost the same scenario with WABC on Election night during the local cut-ins from the network coverage. Once they were about to go back to the network, they said their coverage would continue on WABC+, listed the cable systems that it was on, but never mentioned that it could be received OTA on digital 7.2.


----------



## raddiux

All channels seem to be coming in pretty good for me now... except for 13. Channels 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 25 and 68 all have about 50-60% level, with channel 5 at 70-90%. However, channel 13 (I believe its on 61 frequency?) fluctuates at about 5-10%. Is this station even on? I've read a few reports of people getting 13, but not many. I don't think i've EVER seen channel 13 in the 3 years that i've been toying with OTA. I'm located in southern brooklyn.


Any idea when 13 will turn on the power so most of us can actually see it?


----------



## Trip in VA

02/17/09.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raddiux* /forum/post/15126080
> 
> 
> All channels seem to be coming in pretty good for me now... except for 13. Channels 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 25 and 68 all have about 50-60% level, with channel 5 at 70-90%. However, channel 13 (I believe its on 61 frequency?) fluctuates at about 5-10%. Is this station even on? I've read a few reports of people getting 13, but not many. I don't think i've EVER seen channel 13 in the 3 years that i've been toying with OTA. I'm located in southern brooklyn.
> 
> 
> Any idea when 13 will turn on the power so most of us can actually see it?



Where I work, we have a Radio Shack U-75R on our 10 story building, 18 miles away from ESB, and I can get Channel 13 as well as the other channels. But at my house 25 miles away, I can't get channel 13 It is transmitting low power now but after Feb 2009 they should increase power.


----------



## LenL

I compared signal strength Friday night 11/21 here in Randolph 31 miles from the ESB to 11/11 and there was dramatic changes:

chn 11/1 11/21

2.1 65 82

4.1 69 81

5.1 77 81

7.1 77 82

9.1 51 72

11.1 62 80

13.1 29 29

25.1 72 84

31.1 65 81

50.1 73 91


----------



## raj2001

That seems to be due to something on your end. 5.1 is on a separate antenna (still on ESB) and 50.1 is broadcasting from Montclair, NJ (next door to the MSU NJ transit station). I pass by the tower every day.


----------



## LenL

maybe the wind changed my antenna direction ever so slightly...i may need to get the ladder out and see if it is loose...


----------



## a72849

The dtv signals could be better because the leaves fell off the trees near your antenna. I would change nothing since the signals are better.


----------



## LenL

I still think it was the wind and it just happened to put my antenna in a slightly better position. Just to be sure I went outside with a compass and wrote down the heading as best I could see. If the antenna moves again I should be able to figure it out with my compass. Next chance I get I will climb the ladder and check to see if the antenna is loose.


I do have trees close by but the leaves were mostly gone by my 11/11 reading. I also did a 11/18 reading and the results were similar to 11/11 but I only did a few stations.


----------



## rothe

Actually, LenL, I wouldn't be so sure it was the wind. I'm down here in Monmouth County (just south of Asbury Park), and my reception seems to be MUCH better of late. I have a home theater PC (HTPC) for all of my over-the-air (OTA) reception, and I always used to have a pretty fair amount of errors on channels 2,4,5 and 7. This weekend I recorded some programs that always used to show several seconds worth of dropouts, and I had NONE. That NEVER happens!


Now, my situation is complicated by my HTPC software. The previous version had some bugs that were known to be a problem for OTA reception, and they just released a new version on Friday, so I don't know if my HTPC experience was improved by the new software or better transmissions.


I also need to consider the extreme cold that we've been experiencing of late -- that would drastically lower the humidity in the air, which is another big change from the prior week. The point is that when you go from 50 or 60 degrees F with 100% humidity to 25 F with 40% humidity, you're going to get better reception, at least for those of us on the fringe.


----------



## LenL

Rothe,


What you say makes sense to me. But it can't be the reason for the changes I saw. My mom is 1/2 mile away with the same antenna and amp and the same weather....her signal strength has NOT changed.


So it must be isolated to my location!


----------



## SnellKrell

Have you taken into account the difference in tuners' sensitivity?


----------



## LenL

Snell,


This is true....she has an RCA Digital to Analog tuner feeding her anolog TV. While I am feeding the antenna to a SHARP HD TV. Not sure why my signal strength would change though while hers wouldn't.


----------



## reddice

Lately I have been having problems with channel 5. It shows four green bars and I peak it at about 75 but it randomly keeps dropping out. It will go from a strong signal to nothing and keep pixlating. It would do it at various times and it is very annoying. I don't want to hear that multipath baloney because it was fine last week. It started to do this a few days ago.


----------



## SnellKrell

"I don't want to hear that multipath baloney..."


What more can be or needs to be said?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15144045
> 
> 
> "I don't want to hear that multipath baloney..."
> 
> 
> What more can be or needs to be said?



Clearly the signal Gods are angry. He must conduct the ritual of the Megahertz in order to recover his signal.










In all seriousness, unless others are reporting the same problem, it's almost certainly multipath.


Let me tell you a little story. Once upon a time, Trip went to college (and is still there) and attempted to use his antenna in his apartment. With a 1000 kW digital (and its 5000 kW analog counterpart) a mere 4 miles away, its signal reflected off of EVERYTHING. While Trip managed to stabilize the digital and eliminate the multipath-induced dropouts, the analog continues to show that the ghosts change and move while walking around the room. When the wind blows. When doors are opened and closed, when roommates walk around in the next room, when any number of events happen.


My roommates in the next bedroom moved a dresser and I had to reposition my antenna.


I know first-hand that it's a pain. But I really don't know what else to tell you.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

I can report that just about all the channels that I was getting much stronger signals on have deteriorated with this wet weather we are having. I have lost the 6 to 20 plus points on just about everything...but not all. NJN is still up around 90 inspite of the weather. WPIXDT (11.1) is down to the mid 50s when before it had gone up to the mid 70s.


----------



## stanleymst

Cannot seem to get anything digital to come in at all. Is this endemic to this area?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15146354
> 
> 
> I can report that just about all the channels that I was getting much stronger signals on have deteriorated with this wet weather we are having. I have lost the 6 to 20 plus points on just about everything...but not all. NJN is still up around 90 inspite of the weather. WPIXDT (11.1) is down to the mid 50s when before it had gone up to the mid 70s.



Interesting. That certainly reinforces my earlier theory.


I'm curious about why your mother wasn't seeing the same improvement that you had reported. I saw from one of your earlier posts that you're in Randolph, about 32 miles west of the ESB. What is the terrain like in that area? And how about near your mother's place?


I saw on TVFool.com that most of Randolph does not have a line of site view of the ESB, so reflections and diffraction are the only way that you're going to get a signal. With that said, I'm now wondering if moisture in the soil and other wet surfaces would have a substantial effect on reflections and diffraction -- perhaps even an adverse effect, like diffusion. That would certainly put a damper on signal strength. (I swear I didn't mean to make that pun!)


When I looked at Randolph on TVfool, I merely plugged in your zip code. Try plugging in your complete address, and your mother's too. If your reception of these stations is listed as 2Edge and her's is listed as 1Edge or LOS, or vice versa, then that would further point to terrain as the significant variable between your two reception conditions.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15143764
> 
> 
> Lately I have been having problems with channel 5. It shows four green bars and I peak it at about 75 but it randomly keeps dropping out. It will go from a strong signal to nothing and keep pixlating. It would do it at various times and it is very annoying. I don't want to hear that multipath baloney because it was fine last week. It started to do this a few days ago.



Reddice, just because you can't SEE any multipath doesn't mean that the condition isn't there. Unfortunately, God gave us eyes that can't see radio waves, so we're stuck using our abilities of reason and abstraction to identify what we can't otherwise see.


There are a great many people on this forum who want to help you, and they have offered advice and relayed their own experience to help you to see what's going on with your own reception. But your own online tone just doesn't seem to be very receptive to that assistance. If you don't want to THINK about these things, then there's nothing that any of us can do to help you. And people will stop trying.


----------



## SnellKrell

James -


Well said!


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stanleymst* /forum/post/15147302
> 
> 
> Cannot seem to get anything digital to come in at all. Is this endemic to this area?



On the contrary, you should have very strong signals. See TVfool.com and enter your own address.


Also, tell us what kind of antenna you're using? With or without a pre-amp? What tuner/tv? etc. Have you seen any signal strength indicators on your equipment?


What does analog TV look like for you? Snow? Ghosts? Interference?


Let us know.


----------



## SnellKrell

Also tell us - indoor or outdoor antenna?


How high is it?


Used to live in Riverdale and it's one of the highest elevations in NYC.


----------



## stanleymst

the antennais a roof antenna about 60 feet aboveground in a multi=familyservicedby an antenna company which insists there is no signal. I'll try to get info omn the natenna - it has a booster on it but analog signals can be ghostly on occassion.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stanleymst* /forum/post/15147711
> 
> 
> the antennais a roof antenna about 60 feet aboveground in a multi=familyservicedby an antenna company which insists there is no signal. I'll try to get info omn the natenna - it has a booster on it but analog signals can be ghostly on occassion.



Time for a new antenna company!


----------



## LenL

Rothe,


Thanks for the post and your comments. I am new to all of this OTA stuff. I just had my mother's house upgraded in August with a new antenna (CM4228 and CM 7777 amp) and when I saw all the stations she was getting with her RCA digital to analog converter (she refuses to use cablevision) hooked up I thought I would put the same setup on my roof. While she is only a 1/2 mile away as the crow flies our locations are a little different. She is in a flat area with no hills or tall trees close by and not in the line of her antenna direction to the ESB. On the otherhand I am on the side of a hill and surrounded by tall trees. I do have the hill and trees in front of my antenna's line of sight to the ESB. I am probably 100 to 200 feet higher in elavation then she is and we are both in an area that is probably 600 to 700 feet about sea level.


What I find puzzling is that I have had really great reception recently with all the NY stations at or near 80% or better. I checked her reception out when that happened and I did not get the same results. Thus I thought maybe the wind moved my antenna. However the reception changed to much less signal again with the rainy weather. When this weather gets cold and dry again I will report on my results.


Her signal seems to be consistant regardless of the weather. I might also add that she gets channel 13.1 etc and WLIW 21.2 etc. The RCA box is pulling them in with some signal loss on ocaision while my Sharp TV does not even try to pull them in. She is real happy with what she gets on her TV.


----------



## SnellKrell

28, WNBC-DT had major audio level problems earlier this morning - all the way in the basement. The analog feed was fine.


The digital audio is now back to its "normal" relatively low level.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15149983
> 
> 
> I just had my mother's house upgraded in August with a new antenna (CM4228 and CM 7777 amp) and when I saw all the stations she was getting with her RCA digital to analog converter



You might want to ask her if you can borrow her D/A converter for a few hours, just rule out tuner differences. If her converter box does significantly better than your TV's built-in tuner, then you might want to look into other tuner solutions. (I *love* my home-theater PC, with four built-in tuners, plenty of hard drive space, and the ability to convert programs for just about any viewing device on my home network, or even portable players.)



> Quote:
> She is in a flat area with no hills or tall trees close by and not in the line of her antenna direction to the ESB. On the otherhand I am on the side of a hill and surrounded by tall trees. I do have the hill and trees in front of my antenna's line of sight to the ESB. I am probably 100 to 200 feet higher in elavation then she is and we are both in an area that is probably 600 to 700 feet about sea level.



Well, that does it -- you're going to have to move the mountain!










My reception situation is a very different one. I'm down in the NJ shore area, about a half-mile from the beach. The terrain is generally dead-flat and, as per TVfool, I have a line-of-site (LOS) view of the ESB. They don't take into account any of the taller apartment buildings that are about a half-mile north of me, right in the LOS. My understanding of how these signals travel from transmitter to receiver is that they will typically go through buildings to some extent, but much more than that, they will diffract around the buildings. The end result is somewhat of a multipath effect, with certain sweet-spots fore and aft of where I might mount my antenna, and also in altitude.


We all can probably recall playing with rabbit ears on an old tv set, and finding the sweet spot for reception of a given station. Or perhaps adjusting the telescoping antenna on a portable radio in the same manner. We're faced with the same situation for our HDTV reception.


In other words, if I have trouble receiving a given station, I can drastically improve the reception of that one station by moving the antenna closer or farther away by some fraction of a wavelength. Depending on the station, that could mean a couple of inches or a few feet. Because I have my antenna mounted in the attic, on a small mast mounted into a picnic-table umbrella stand, I have the liberty of moving it around anywhere within the attic. On the other hand, my Winegard HD7698P is huge, so it takes up a substantial portion of the attic, thus limiting my placement range. Still, I think I've found the sweet spot for me, for now -- until February when many of the stations' frequencies change.


My point in spelling this out is that you have a similar issue to what I have with buildings, but your obstacles are trees and hills. But I'll bet there's still a sweet spot that you can find that will get you the reception that you want. If your 8-bay monstrosity is mounted in the attic, then see if you can't fiddle with placement like I did, to include elevation changes (up or down) by however many inches you can. (That umbrella-stand trick makes a great movable mount.) If you're using an outdoor mount, then you can probably still adjust the elevation to some extent.


The trick with most multipath issues, even those caused by objects in the LOS, is to find the sweet spot. It's out there, somewhere.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Rosie" is in 2-channel stereo and HD.


Even though the show is putrid, would have thought that if NBC went for HD and since music is big part of the show, they would have sprung for 5.1.


Things are tough all over, especailly at 30 Rock!!!!


----------



## R.F. Burns

Watching today's parade coverage, for the first time WNBC has better video than WCBS. WNBC is being shown in true HD, while WCBS looks like they are running SD video on their digital channnel.


----------



## SnellKrell

CBS's coverage of the parade is produced in SD!


----------



## lexus2108

I noticed in another thread someone else besides me does not get ANY sound from LATV 11.2


I used to get sound and then a month ago it went away. The picture is fine but no more sound. I am now using DTVpal.


Does anyone know why this happened and if they plan on fixing it?


thanks


----------



## LenL

I get sound on 11.2. I think the problem is on your end.


----------



## Trip in VA

It depends. If they're not sending AC3 audio, then some receivers won't decode it. I've seen stations try to get away with sending only MPEG-2 audio (which is not part of the ATSC standard) and it just doesn't work on some receivers.


I'd have to see some TSReader output on WPIX-DT to know if that's what's going on though, it could be a number of things.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

The audio quality is about the worst I've heard - but it's there!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15175852
> 
> 
> I get sound on 11.2. I think the problem is on your end.



What digital box do you use? I use the DTVpal. It used to get the sound. Now it just stopped. I haven't tried the Zenith 901 yet


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15176005
> 
> 
> The audio quality is about the worst I've heard - but it's there!



So maybe it is the DTV-pal? another person who has the same box has the same trouble.


When I get a chance I will try the Zenith


Funny how the DTV-pal worked and now it does not


----------



## SubaruB4

Did something change on the ESB? last time I posted in this thread was in early 2007 after i brought my silver sensor I tried it and got no channels so I sat it on my file cabinet for a year, so fast forward today I decided to hook it up today and what do you know I get 14 DTV channels now.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes!


----------



## SubaruB4

I think I have an issue with mutipath.. I get good video but maybe like every 5-10 seconds the picture will jump or pause then come back audio is effected as well.


However I'm very happy now that I can pick up the signals.. will a amp on my Zenth silver sensor help? I have it mounted outside the window, I live at a apartment and so I can't mount anything on the wall, when I get a A/C unit I will mount it on top of that.


Also I've picked up some stations (no picture/No sound) it just showed up when scanning for OTA channels.. one was LATV in HD I never heard of that channel...


I did a 2nd scan before bed and I got WLIW-NY but the picture was jumping so I changed.


----------



## a72849

LATV is transmitted by WPIX-DT on channel 11-2 from the Empire State Building.


----------



## sansri88

WLIW is going HD "soon"


Just in case ya'll didn't know


----------



## SnellKrell

They once were and pulled the plug.


Any idea when?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a72849* /forum/post/15180488
> 
> 
> LATV is transmitted by WPIX-DT on channel 11-2 from the Empire State Building.



Again I get no sound on LATV 11.2 but I do get sound on 11.1 WPIX. Trying to figure out if it is my DTVpal that did have sound 8 weeks ago


----------



## SubaruB4

I get sound and may get video but it's not often..


I might need an amp for my antenna. I live about 29 miles from the ESB and on a two story building and i'm on the first floor.. I just have the antenna pointed in a SW direction to the ESB.


Also what is up with NBC weather +?


maybe it's because I have mutipath issues but I see stuff like a weather report about to happen then it gets cut off then goes to some tv commercial.. the sound also as well sounds jacked..


the other stations are fine so far..


using my Hauppauge HVR-1600 tuner


----------



## lexus2108

Another question: Will NYC get these substations? It was written they want to be in 75% of the USA by Feb 19th. Anyone with the inside knowledge?


There is a new substation in Chicago. It is Weigel Broadcasting


They own 3 new substations for rent to the BIG networks looking for more then just 24/7 weather channel. The BIG networks can rent all 3 substations or just part of one. IF they wanted just 4 hours they can rent just 4 hours


The 3 substations are called MeTv, MeToo, And This TV


This TV has old movies and old Tv shown 24/7 with little Advertising.
*

A website showing All there stations*

http://www.metvchicago.com/ 


*Here is a tv guide of the programing*
http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/...x?siteid=52545 
*

This TV's program schedule relies on the extensive library of films and TV programming currently owned by MGM (notably excluding the pre-1986 MGM film/TV library, whose rights are currently held by Turner Entertainment and Time Warner). The film lineup does not concentrate on films from any specific era, meaning films from the Depression era to contemporary times are featured. There are no plans for any original programming on the network, although the use of on-air presenters may be included in This TV's movie broadcasts.[1]


This TV also features a daily block of childrens' programming (including shows that meet the E/I content requirements) that is handled by Toronto-based Cookie Jar Entertainment.*


----------



## Trip in VA

Me TV and Me Too are local things that are not syndicated out to local stations like RTN is. That wouldn't stop anybody from doing something like that in New York though.


As for This TV, your guess is as good as mine. Before the launch, they announced they had signed 30 affiliates, but so far I've seen about 8, including one that was announced and never put This TV on (KDOC in Los Angeles). I'm anxiously awaiting its launch in my area, as I was told I'd have a local affiliate but one has yet to show up.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Haven't heard anything about Weigel coming into the NY market.


The programming services are on WCIU owned by Weigel.


Unless big bucks were part of the deal, I can't see one of NY's stations going with Weigel.


----------



## Trip in VA

Big network stations in other markets are picking up This TV (WDIV Detroit and KPRC Houston are set to start ASAP to replace WeatherPlus, though they're not owned by NBC).


This TV is a joint partnership of Weigel and MGM, so it's not like they're going with "just" Weigel. I wouldn't be surprised to see it on a subchannel of one of the UHF stations like WLNY or WRNN before all is said and done, though probably not the "big" stations in New York.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Mark -


I think you hit it when you mentioned that the two stations, WDIV and KPRC are not owned by NBC - they're Post-Newsweek. Although the big corps owning CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, CW and MY really don't know what to do with their sub-channels, I doubt if they'll go with Weigel/MGM.


Here in NY, what continues to puzzle me is the way Fox, the owner of 5 and 9 has each of those channels simulcasting, on its one sub, the sister station's SD signal. What a total waste of bandwidth. Mark, if you can see a purpose, please let me know.


----------



## Trip in VA

Nobody here knows me as Mark.










CW, NBC, and ABC in New York are already spoken for as far as subchannels go, and CBS isn't doing subchannels anywhere except in Sacramento on a temporary basis while some tower work is going on. The 5/9 thing goes back to when 9 didn't have a digital. I figure they hang onto it now since 9's signal is the weakest of the commercial soon-to-be-former VHFs, and if people see one and not the other it won't be a huge loss. At least until they get all the analog equipment out of the Empire State Building and can maximize both signals as they've indicated they want to.


Even though I know I said CW's subchannels are spoken for, remember that it's owned by Sam Zell and Tribune and not by the CW network itself. There's definitely a chance another subchannel could show up there, as Zell is anxious to squeeze every penny out of his stations. (Can't say I blame him either.)


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15183502
> 
> 
> Big network stations in other markets are picking up This TV (WDIV Detroit and KPRC Houston are set to start ASAP to replace WeatherPlus, though they're not owned by NBC).
> 
> 
> This TV is a joint partnership of Weigel and MGM, so it's not like they're going with "just" Weigel. I wouldn't be surprised to see it on a subchannel of one of the UHF stations like WLNY or WRNN before all is said and done, though probably not the "big" stations in New York.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well I read that 80 affiliates of NBC has opted OUT of the STATION Weather Plus 24/7 So they are in need to fill that station.


I would love to see more content on substations. To become more like Cable with Advertising. It seems that 30 million homes in USA are OTA. That is a big number and a real untapped market for the BIG networks.


24/7

movie channel

news channel

sci fi channel

amc type channel

sports channel


ect you get the idea. The fact that most networks will come in cable clear with the new digital tv. This is a real untapped market. imo


----------



## SubaruB4

NBC weather + ends tomorrow?


and interesting about this pulse 87...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNYZ-LP 


I was thinking to myself wow odd.. that's one strong radio station...


----------



## Trip in VA

I heard WeatherPlus was to end on 12/31, but I know some stations are dumping it early.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15183913
> 
> 
> NBC weather + ends tomorrow?



Not sure of the date. I did read that a lot of affiliates I remember the number 80 were opting out of the weather 24/7 station on NBC


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15183928
> 
> 
> I heard WeatherPlus was to end on 12/31, but I know some stations are dumping it early.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That date rings a bell


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15183913
> 
> 
> NBC weather + ends tomorrow?
> 
> 
> and interesting about this pulse 87...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNYZ-LP
> 
> 
> I was thinking to myself wow odd.. that's one strong radio station...



I also read that some or all will replace it with "THIS TV"


Don't know if true though


----------



## Trip in VA

The only ones I know of that are replacing it with This TV are the ones I mentioned which are owned by Post-Newsweek. I know a number of them are going to do local weather, but I'm pretty sure WNBC-DT in New York will be launching that all-news subchannel to replace it.


- Trip


----------



## SubaruB4

An ok.. we will see..


the channels I have a hard time getting are..


WXTV-DT

LATV

and the CW


only care about the CW however.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15184047
> 
> 
> An ok.. we will see..
> 
> 
> the channels I have a hard time getting are..
> 
> 
> WXTV-DT
> 
> LATV
> 
> and the CW
> 
> 
> only care about the CW however.



You may be having interference problems from WFSB-DT 33. It's on the same channel as WPIX from New York.


- Trip


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15184140
> 
> 
> You may be having interference problems from WFSB-DT 33. It's on the same channel as WPIX from New York.
> 
> 
> - Trip



hmm on Wikipedia it's not saying it's listed on the same channel however WFSB is running 1000KW for digital but heck it's too far upsate to get it on digital or analog


----------



## Trip in VA

WPIX-DT is on 33 and WFSB-DT is on 33. I just looked up where Greenwich is and I'm doubting that's your problem though, given your location.


Not sure what to tell you about it. Perhaps there's someone from your area who might be able to tell you more.


- Trip


----------



## sansri88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15181715
> 
> 
> They once were and pulled the plug.
> 
> 
> Any idea when?



Somewhere around the DTV transition date I think.


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15184005
> 
> 
> The only ones I know of that are replacing it with This TV are the ones I mentioned which are owned by Post-Newsweek. I know a number of them are going to do local weather, but I'm pretty sure WNBC-DT in New York will be launching that all-news subchannel to replace it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Would that be MSNBC?


----------



## Trip in VA

No, it's the local news channel they've been talking about for months.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/bu...7wPCfAU3punKTg 

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...s_channel.html 


- Trip


----------



## SubaruB4

well weather plus was still on when I woke up this morning from what I understand its going to be somewhat like a 24 hour news program? I heard sue simmons is going to be on it? heh make sure someone does not do anything stupid so she has to ask what they are doing ;-)


----------



## lexus2108

I got it ty


----------



## SnellKrell

What had been expected to be a competitor to NY1, a 24-hour news service, has now been "re-directed."


The Content Center is really nothing more than a new newsroom now on the 7th floor of 30 Rock. In essence, it's no more than a cutdown version of the also new network facility on the 3rd floor - and the "news gatherers" will also supply the new channel 4 Web site -also sporting an absurd new name.


The latest word around is that the new 24-hour service will have a lesser emphasis on news updated stories and breaking news, but will rely on a lot of programming from the recently acquired production company LXTV, the producers of the illiterate "Open House" series on 4 and other on the cheap productions.


The new service is really something to look forward to - amazing that it's being provided by the flagship station of the NBC Television Network.


Once again, General Sarnoff is rolling in his grave!


----------



## sansri88

Damn, sad to hear that. I actually looked forward to a 24/7 local news operation since Comcast doesn't carry NY1 here.


----------



## SnellKrell

It sounds as if - yes, 24/7 but it will be "McNews"!


----------



## SubaruB4

what is a good amp for my antenna? I'm guessing im going to need a powered amp?


----------



## jpru34

I would highly recommend the Winegard HDP-269. It should give you plenty of power without overloading the tuners.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15191915
> 
> 
> what is a good amp for my antenna? I'm guessing im going to need a powered amp?



See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html , and scroll down to "Comparing some common antenna amplifiers." Actually, that whole page should provide some valuable information to you.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/15202772
> 
> 
> See http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html , and scroll down to "Comparing some common antenna amplifiers." Actually, that whole page should provide some valuable information to you.




hmm so it's just for long cable runs? the cable I have now is like 5 ft long but its not reason to be that long..


but it's annoying I'd watch the OTA HD channels more if it did not freeze every 15-30 secs.


only time I switch is when the news is on.


any other stations plan on switching back to VHF? If so then I can use the apartment antenna again.. right now it's only just a VHF antenna.


My sliver sensor is about 40Ft lower in elevation then the apartment antenna on the roof. And I don't have an attic.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT, currently broadcasting on Channel 45 will revert to Channel 7 -


WPIX-DT, currently broadcasting on Channel 33 will go to 11 -


WNET-DT, currently on Channel 61 will be on 13.


Hope this helps.


----------



## jpru34

if you only have 5 feet of cable and no splitters, an amplifier is uinlikely to help you much unless you get one of those super-duper low-noise amps that cost $300-500.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15205373
> 
> 
> ... then I can use the apartment antenna again.. right now it's only just a VHF antenna.



You should probably talk to the apartment supervisor about getting that antenna replaced. I decent VHF-high/UHF antenna would probably only cost about $150, and since a VHF-only antenna is already there, the extent of the installation would *probably* only be removing one antenna and replacing it with the other. You could do that yourself.


How many people share that antenna? Maybe you could split the cost and save the apartment management company some trouble.


----------



## George Molnar

I wonder if the distribution amplifiers, wiring, and splitters are wideband enough to pass UHF signals


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/15209112
> 
> 
> I wonder if the distribution amplifiers, wiring, and splitters are wideband enough to pass UHF signals



If I wanted to test such a cabling system, I would connect a portable HDTV - in my case, my laptop with a USB tuner - to the antenna way upstream from where he's connected now. In his case, that would take some coordination with the super, and he'd probably need to disconnect some downstream "customers" while he did his troubleshooting. But it might yield valuable data.


----------



## George Molnar

It does seem strange not adding UHF years ago with all those UHF analog stations available there.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/15207997
> 
> 
> You should probably talk to the apartment supervisor about getting that antenna replaced. I decent VHF-high/UHF antenna would probably only cost about $150, and since a VHF-only antenna is already there, the extent of the installation would *probably* only be removing one antenna and replacing it with the other. You could do that yourself.
> 
> 
> How many people share that antenna? Maybe you could split the cost and save the apartment management company some trouble.



antenna runs to about 32-38 buildings I thought about that but if Channel 7 is moving to VHF then what is the point? I doubt many people use it.. I only found it one day that it worked..


and 4 other buildings (not attached) also have an antenna..



This also brings up another question.. the worst channels that are hard to get are Channel 2 and 4 sometimes they come in decent but the rest of the time it's like the transmission power was cut in half and it's almost around the same time every day.


And as far as splitting the cost with most everyone here that has Cablevision (they told renters to remove sat dishes) last year.


----------



## SubaruB4

Here is a good example.. for some reason the HD feed from NBC wont allow me to screen capture it from my capture card it looks like a bad interlaced picture.


WNBC-DT












NBC-SD


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15209892
> 
> 
> antenna runs to about 32-38 buildings I thought about that but if Channel 7 is moving to VHF then what is the point? I doubt many people use it.. I only found it one day that it worked..
> 
> 
> and 4 other buildings (not attached) also have an antenna..
> 
> 
> 
> This also brings up another question.. the worst channels that are hard to get are Channel 2 and 4 sometimes they come in decent but the rest of the time it's like the transmission power was cut in half and it's almost around the same time every day.
> 
> 
> And as far as splitting the cost with most everyone here that has Cablevision (they told renters to remove sat dishes) last year.



32-38 buildings? Or do you mean units?

Regardless, there might be a lot more reasons why you can't get a good signal. For example they could be using RG59 or 58 cable, or are they using any 5- 450MHZ splitters, which means it would kill any UHF signal. Or they could be using an apartment amplifier that only goes up to 550MHZ, which means nothing higher would be let through.

For example WNBC-DT operates on Ch28 UHF which is around 554 MHZ. WCBS-DT operates on Ch56 UHF or around 722Mhz. If there are splitters or amps on that line that are not at least 900MHZ, you are going to have problems getting that station.

Also the higher the freq, the more signal is lost on the cable, especially if its RG59.

I live 25 miles away from ESB on LI and with a $3.99 Radio Shack bowtie UHF antenna in my attic, fed with 50 feet of RG6, I pick up all the stations (except WNET, low power). I would experiment with just getting a bowtie antenna with a matching transformer hooked to the TV, and if you are by a window, aim for the ESB or whatever tower is in your area and see what happens.


----------



## Berk32

Is WNYW-DT down to 480p right now for anyone OTA?


Or is it just Time Warner doing something 'funny'...


(I wonder if WNYW is planning on dropping its signal to 480p when it not showing HD during local time...)


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/15210724
> 
> 
> 32-38 buildings? Or do you mean units?
> 
> Regardless, there might be a lot more reasons why you can't get a good signal. For example they could be using RG59 or 58 cable, or are they using any 5- 450MHZ splitters, which means it would kill any UHF signal. Or they could be using an apartment amplifier that only goes up to 550MHZ, which means nothing higher would be let through.
> 
> For example WNBC-DT operates on Ch28 UHF which is around 554 MHZ. WCBS-DT operates on Ch56 UHF or around 722Mhz. If there are splitters or amps on that line that are not at least 900MHZ, you are going to have problems getting that station.
> 
> Also the higher the freq, the more signal is lost on the cable, especially if its RG59.
> 
> I live 25 miles away from ESB on LI and with a $3.99 Radio Shack bowtie UHF antenna in my attic, fed with 50 feet of RG6, I pick up all the stations (except WNET, low power). I would experiment with just getting a bowtie antenna with a matching transformer hooked to the TV, and if you are by a window, aim for the ESB or whatever tower is in your area and see what happens.



sorry I meant units, and I think they are using the funny thing is with the apartment antenna one cable station bleeds into the antenna for some reason the picture is snowy but it has sound and that's CNN...


And it's a power injection as I happen to get a little tingle shock one day touching the tip of the cable.



So this bowtie antenna is not directional?


I have rabbit ears but the cable is a bit too short for me.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15210212
> 
> 
> Here is a good example.. for some reason the HD feed from NBC wont allow me to screen capture it from my capture card it looks like a bad interlaced picture.



Saw your screen shots. I'm a little confused. You said that you couldn't receive UHF over the apartment complex antenna, but NBC-DT is broadcast over UHF. NBC (analog) is on a VHF channel. Or did this come from your Silver Sensor?


As for the "interlacing" that you claim to see, that's not what I'm seeing in your screen shots. An improperly de-interlaced signal will have fine, sharp *horizontal lines* throughout the image, and probably won't be watchable at all. What your camera shot shows is some subtle moire patterns ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern -- see the downsampling image on the right). Granted, it's a camera shot that you sent us, so I can't really be sure of what you're seeing.


If you're concerned that it might be a little blurry, then I'd ask how you have that HTPC hooked up to your TV. What cable/interface are you using?


Lastly, about the inability to do screen captures, that might have to do with digital transmission content protection (DTCP) enabled by NBC. I'm aware that some capture software supports this -- is that WinTV that you're using? -- so that might be why you can't do any screen shots of NBC-DT.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15214222
> 
> 
> 
> So this bowtie antenna is not directional?
> 
> 
> I have rabbit ears but the cable is a bit too short for me.



The bowtie is directional, and I have this one
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062017 

The reviews are pretty good.



Rabbit ears might work , its mostly for VHF, but I did pick up the same stations with rabbit ears so give it a shot. If your cable is too short, extend it with a coupling. One thing about antenna reception is it's not an exact science sometimes, and the simplest things work better than the elaborate ones.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/15214247
> 
> 
> Saw your screen shots. I'm a little confused. You said that you couldn't receive UHF over the apartment complex antenna, but NBC-DT is broadcast over UHF. NBC (analog) is on a VHF channel. Or did this come from your Silver Sensor?
> 
> 
> As for the "interlacing" that you claim to see, that's not what I'm seeing in your screen shots. An improperly de-interlaced signal will have fine, sharp *horizontal lines* throughout the image, and probably won't be watchable at all. What your camera shot shows is some subtle moire patterns ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern -- see the downsampling image on the right). Granted, it's a camera shot that you sent us, so I can't really be sure of what you're seeing.
> 
> 
> If you're concerned that it might be a little blurry, then I'd ask how you have that HTPC hooked up to your TV. What cable/interface are you using?
> 
> 
> Lastly, about the inability to do screen captures, that might have to do with digital transmission content protection (DTCP) enabled by NBC. I'm aware that some capture software supports this -- is that WinTV that you're using? -- so that might be why you can't do any screen shots of NBC-DT.



NBC-DT was from my Silver Sensor.. NBC the SD feed was from the apartment antenna.


and the bad interlacing I was talking about was what you were saying about NBC and the DTCP enabled.


Also the shot of my computer screen with the NBC-DT was blury because I had the macro mode on.. (doh!)


It was fine.. but I get a lot of uncorrectable errors that cause the channel to freeze. My SNR ratio can go as low as 21.5 to as high as 27 I have seen.


I did not post shots of the failed NBC-DT screen capture because I figured someone knew about that already.










also I have tried other programs and it's the same issue with NBC-DT the screen shot size come out to something larger then 1080 and it's twisted sideways..


and yes that is WinTV 6


*edit included NBC-DT picture capture.


----------



## ayoldguy1

Did anyone notice an extreme degradation of signal on channel 11-1 HD (TheCW11)? I'm in Queens, ground floor of a small apt building but about 8 miles from ES with no real tall bldgs between. I usually get between 80-95% on all channels 2-11, 55% on 13. I noticed last nite though that while all my channels were OK, 11-1 was horrible - antenna showed like 75% signal but I had NO audio and picture was extremely pixellated. What gives??


----------



## reddice

Update. Channel 5 was breaking up badly going form a green signal to nothing. I changed my UFO antenna from the 8 position to the 7 position and channel 5 no longer breaks up. Channel 7 is still strong but on the 7 position I can only peak it at around 70 and not 80. The other channels I can get are about the same.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ayoldguy1* /forum/post/15223422
> 
> 
> Did anyone notice an extreme degradation of signal on channel 11-1 HD (TheCW11)? I'm in Queens, ground floor of a small apt building but about 8 miles from ES with no real tall bldgs between. I usually get between 80-95% on all channels 2-11, 55% on 13. I noticed last nite though that while all my channels were OK, 11-1 was horrible - antenna showed like 75% signal but I had NO audio and picture was extremely pixellated. What gives??



Funny you should mention this. My aunt also in Queens said channel 11 went out for a few hours. Could be they are working on the station of antenna on Empire State building?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sansri88* /forum/post/15190239
> 
> 
> Damn, sad to hear that. I actually looked forward to a 24/7 local news operation since Comcast doesn't carry NY1 here.



Don't you have News 12 NJ? We're on Service Electric and we have it.


----------



## LenL

As some of you may remember I reported about a month ago that all of a sudden my signal strength improved dramatically. NY stations like 11.1 that were about 50% were now over 70%. In fact all stations improved by 10 to 25% and just about every NY station was 80 to 90%! However it was short lived and everything reverted back to the way it was a couple of days later.


Some said it was the change in humidity and temperature that gave me the brief improvement. I thought maybe the wind changed my antenna.


Well Last night everything reverted again to the improved reception. It was snowing and the humidity had to be high and yet the reception was great again. This morning I checked again and it was still great! Sun is shining.


So I think we are back to square one in trying to explain why signal strength is changing!


Has anyone else experienced improved reception this weekend?


Snell/Trip.....I thought there was an explanation and now I give up...


----------



## reddice

Scratch that on channel 5. It is still randomly breaking up. It is so annoying. I peak it at over 70 with four green bars and then it keeps breaking up to nothing. Can be fine for a few days and then start up again. Can't wait until 2/17/2009 when a lot of people will be calling up there local stations saying they are having problems receiving them. That is the governments fault for not leaving it the way it is now. At least analog works.


----------



## R.F. Burns

As a colleague of mine mentioned earlier, digital TV broadcasts seem to have problems when it’s very windy outside. My antenna is in my attic and I checked on it yesterday and other than being cold up there, there was no visible reason that most HD channels, which come in with a very usable signal (between 50 & 75%) would not stay locked yesterday. It was so bad I had to switch to my DirecTV SD box. His theory is that the breakup is the result of interruptions, in the data stream, such as large limbs and other obstructions interrupting the data flow. I don't believe there is buffering at the receiver end associated with terrestrial reception. That would explain the problem. Channel 2 was truly unwatchable, with breakup of the signal being equal to or a little more than 50% of the time. I know that changes will occur in February but if this is a condition I can expect at 25 miles from Empire using a fringe VHF antenna with pre-amp, the future doesn't look bright for terrestrial digital TV. My analog picture is near perfect on most VHF signals. It isn't a matter of frequency dependence because while the lower VHF signals are quite good, so is WABC and WNET's high VHF picture, while WWOR & WPIX both have ghosts and signals which aren't quite as good. At my old house (about 2 miles away) prior to 9/11 all VHF analog pictures were line quality. Of course that's a comparison which has no weight in this discussion. I used to have separate VHF & UHF antennas each with its own feed line (foam 300 ohm for UHF) and combined them at the TV end into a single RG6 feed into the TV’s 75 ohm input. Along the same lines, WABC's HD was missing completely the other day. At this point I can't understand why the NY digital signals are as unreliable as they appear to be. It's still being treated as a experimental technology and I can't believe the average consumer would be happy to turn on their new TV using an over the air antenna only to find that all of the area PBS channels are running at very reduced power. (Channel 13 & the somewhat more reliable channel 50 aren't receivable at least 80% of the time and I am not very far from the transmitter site and am using a better than average antenna considering my location. Trying to find terrestrial antennas without doing mail order in my area is near impossible). TV stations such as WABC aren't even broadcasting for whatever reason for hours at a time. I have two HD TV's and the same results are experienced on both (and there is nothing wrong with the feed to either set). To repeat an earlier comment I had made, the longer I see what is happening with HD TV at least at this stage the more it reminds me of HD Radio. Stations can't just turn transmitters on and off without providing a backup and expect people to stay with them. I guess we've been spoiled by seamless reception for so long that these interruptions seem almost unacceptable.


----------



## reddice

Good post. I have a feeling that after February 7, 11 and 13 will be hard to pick up. I was never able to get a high VHF channel. Who knows if the reception would be good or not because right now channel 7 is my strongest station.


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe a good portion of the reception inconsitencies you've experienced has to do with the extensive work currently going on at the ESB. Put on top of that the frustrating anamolies which are part of digital, UHF transmission in an urban location.


The only "major" digital station not affected by the work is WNYW-DT - not a part of the Combiner system.


You mentioned that WABC-DT was not broadcasting for hours at a time.

The Combiner, which includes WABC-DT, at times has been down - usually late night to

early morning to allow work to be done. Additionally, when the Combiner during daytime hours has been down, WABC-DT switches to its backup facility at the Conde Nast Building, 4 Times Square. It's possible that this switch has not allowed you to receive the station's signal.


February 18th will not be the end all, the answer to all of our problems . It will be a major step, but stations will continue to fine tune easily into fall of 2010.


There is a long time of frustration between now and when, if ever, a new facility is up and running on the Freedom Tower.


----------



## R.F. Burns

Your post only proves my point. WNYW had the same problem as every other HD station yesterday. It too suffered dropouts and the level of ghosting at my location is minimal. Today the signals have been solid. I understand what's happening but I am sure 99% of the audience won't. This is especially true when you consider that these problems didn't exist with analog transmissions. 25 miles from Empire is not all that far away and I have a line of site to NYC. I have no problem opening a 440 repeater located on the building at 1515 Broadway, using a Yeasu VX5 hand held running 5 watts into a antenna with unity gain.


----------



## kspaz

The picture on the 21 channels it receives in NYC is pretty amazing!

sound is great too.

I'm using the RCA connectors with composite video


The 4 of the 6 major networks all come in great since I'm on the 2nd

floor in Western Queens.


I do not get PBS (WNET 13) at 5PM on a weekday. I'll try at primetime.


Zenith 1994year 27" CRT TV (4:3)

DTV converter box Make/Model:

DigitalStream DTX9950 purchased at Radio Shack


Antenna: RadioShack indoor TV Antenna (rabbit ears)

Cat. No. 15-1857


Sure I get some breakup on some stations but with urban dwelling it's expected. As the weather changes so will it. I have rabbit ears so I can make some adjustments but the coaxial cord is short.

I may upgrade my antenna or else first extend the coaxial cable and place the antenna elsewhere in the room. Hey picture looks great and it's paid by commercial advertising and not by me. I only wish I did this 18 months ago when I cancelled cable television.


What I liked best was WCBS 2 news at 5PM had the best resolution so they must be using HD cameras for local news in the field. Not live shots but recorded/edited footage.

I haven't tried primetime yet OTA and am looking forward to it.

When commercials come on I just use the MUTE button.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Hey picture looks great and it's paid by commercial advertising and not by me."


And then at the end of your pos- "When commercials come on I just use the MUTE button.


Come on play fair - you like what commercial advertising provides, but you use the MUTE button on commercials?


That's a one way street!


Ever hear of quid pro quo?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15205373
> 
> 
> hmm so it's just for long cable runs? the cable I have now is like 5 ft long but its not reason to be that long..
> 
> 
> but it's annoying I'd watch the OTA HD channels more if it did not freeze every 15-30 secs.
> 
> 
> only time I switch is when the news is on.
> 
> 
> any other stations plan on switching back to VHF? If so then I can use the apartment antenna again.. right now it's only just a VHF antenna.
> 
> 
> My sliver sensor is about 40Ft lower in elevation then the apartment antenna on the roof. And I don't have an attic.




Have you tried to see what you can now receive now from that

VHF antenna. You could try the analog channels both VHF & UHF. If you receive any UHF now then the splitters are full band, up to 900 mhz. Also do you know for sure that there is not a main amp for the antenna.


You may want to test an analog tv while the analog log is still on the air. If you do give us a report of what the channels look like.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kspaz* /forum/post/15248485
> 
> 
> The picture on the 21 channels it receives in NYC is pretty amazing!
> 
> sound is great too.
> 
> I'm using the RCA connectors with composite video
> 
> 
> The 4 of the 6 major networks all come in great since I'm on the 2nd
> 
> floor in Western Queens.
> 
> 
> I do not get PBS (WNET 13) at 5PM on a weekday. I'll try at primetime.
> 
> 
> Zenith 1994year 27" CRT TV (4:3)
> 
> DTV converter box Make/Model:
> 
> DigitalStream DTX9950 purchased at Radio Shack
> 
> 
> Antenna: RadioShack indoor TV Antenna (rabbit ears)
> 
> Cat. No. 15-1857
> 
> 
> Sure I get some breakup on some stations but with urban dwelling it's expected. As the weather changes so will it. I have rabbit ears so I can make some adjustments but the coaxial cord is short.
> 
> I may upgrade my antenna or else first extend the coaxial cable and place the antenna elsewhere in the room. Hey picture looks great and it's paid by commercial advertising and not by me. I only wish I did this 18 months ago when I cancelled cable television.
> 
> 
> What I liked best was WCBS 2 news at 5PM had the best resolution so they must be using HD cameras for local news in the field. Not live shots but recorded/edited footage.
> 
> I haven't tried primetime yet OTA and am looking forward to it.
> 
> When commercials come on I just use the MUTE button.



My aunt also lives in Queens. We tried about 10 different indoor antenna's throughout the years. All worked about the same. Crappy. Some pluged into electric and some not.


UNTIL I bought her a Terk -50 Now made as TERK- 55. Best reception so far. Most stations 80 to 90 on DTV pal. She gets all the major networks with 80 to 90. She is 7 miles from Empire state.


I suggest you look at the TERK


----------



## LenL

I posted a few days ago about the improvement I was getting in signal strength On 12/6. This continued on 12/7 and 12/8. This included days of very high winds in the 40 to 50 mph range and even some snow. Signal strength on just about all NY channels was about 80 to 90 %. Some channels like 11.1 and 9.1 which used to be around 50% were now mid 70's.


This improvement went away this morning 12/9 and it all reverted back. No rationale for it. I'm about 30 miles due west of ESB in Morris County (Randolph).


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15256478
> 
> 
> I posted a few days ago about the improvement I was getting in signal strength On 12/6. This continued on 12/7 and 12/8. This included days of very high winds in the 40 to 50 mph range and even some snow. Signal strength on just about all NY channels was about 80 to 90 %. Some channels like 11.1 and 9.1 which used to be around 50% were now mid 70's.
> 
> 
> This improvement went away this morning 12/9 and it all reverted back. No rationale for it. I'm about 30 miles due west of ESB in Morris County (Randolph).



What box are you using? A Cebe?


----------



## LenL

I'm using a Channel master 4228 8-bay bowtie antenna mounted on the chimney about 40 feet up with a CM 7777 Amp feeding a Sharp HD TV.


----------



## brianpatrick1027

Hello form the Heights:


I'm in the 150s on the west side of Manhattan and just replaced my 19-inch Sony CRT with a 40-inch LCD. Fearing I'd have to get cable, I was pleasantly surprised to receive OTA signals fine.


I live in a north-facing apartment on the 4th floor of a six-story building. I ripped the rabbit ears off my 19-inch (no amplifier) and connected it up to the LCD. The TV picked up 40 analog and digital channels. I get the following digital channels:

2-1, 4-1, 4-2, 4-4, 5-1, 5-2, 7-1, 7-2, 7-3, 9-1, 9-2, 11-1, 11-2, 13-1, 13-2, 13-3, 25-1, 25-2, 31-1, 31-2, 31-3, 31-4, 41-1, 47-1, 68-1.


Of course, some of these are lower-res versions of existing high-res channels and others are useless weather channels, church chatter, or spanish-speaking stations. After all is said and done, I keep 13 channels in my line up.


The reception on the major networks is flawless. I was concerned after looking at the results form antennaweb.org, who recommended I get a high-powered rooftop antenna. But, it is not necessary for me.


Thought I'd share for those who are wondering about the reception in Washington Heights.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15257971
> 
> 
> I'm using a Channel master 4228 8-bay bowtie antenna mounted on the chimney about 40 feet up with a CM 7777 Amp feeding a Sharp HD TV.



Are you using some type of set top box(dtvpal)? OR do you have a HDTV with built in tuner?


----------



## LenL

My Sharp TV is a 32" HDTV with a built in OTA tuner. I am not using a converter box.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15261087
> 
> 
> My Sharp TV is a 32" HDTV with a built in OTA tuner. I am not using a converter box.



I am using a Toshiba TV 32" HDTV with the built in OTA tuner. I get the stations the same but I still in my right mind don't understand how all of you can get channel 2. I can barely peak it at around 20 and I am only 4 miles from the ESB. You guys are over twice my distance and have no problems picking it up.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15251424
> 
> 
> Have you tried to see what you can now receive now from that
> 
> VHF antenna. You could try the analog channels both VHF & UHF. If you receive any UHF now then the splitters are full band, up to 900 mhz. Also do you know for sure that there is not a main amp for the antenna.
> 
> 
> You may want to test an analog tv while the analog log is still on the air. If you do give us a report of what the channels look like.



sorry I never got a email notification I can't get ANY UHF channels with the apartment antenna The last channel I can get is channel 13 and that's it.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15261087
> 
> 
> My Sharp TV is a 32" HDTV with a built in OTA tuner. I am not using a converter box.



Are you using rg6 coax cable from the antenna to the tv?


Maybe the cable you have is part of the problem?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15272077
> 
> 
> sorry I never got a email notification I can't get ANY UHF channels with the apartment antenna The last channel I can get is channel 13 and that's it.



Most likely then there is a VHF amp inside an electrical room right under the antenna. How would you rate the quality of the signal you received from those analog channels. Like for example 7- great, 9- ghosty 11- fair 13- snowy. This will give you an idea of what you will receive after 2-19-09 when all those channels are digital with the antenna system set up as it is now.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15265196
> 
> 
> I am using a Toshiba TV 32" HDTV with the built in OTA tuner. I get the stations the same but I still in my right mind don't understand how all of you can get channel 2. I can barely peak it at around 20 and I am only 4 miles from the ESB. You guys are over twice my distance and have no problems picking it up.



I would assume that you are receiving a lot of multipath distortion. On the analog tv that would be ghost. You could check your UHF anlog channels & you may see what the problem is.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15277879
> 
> 
> Most likely then there is a VHF amp inside an electrical room right under the antenna. How would you rate the quality of the signal you received from those analog channels. Like for example 7- great, 9- ghosty 11- fair 13- snowy. This will give you an idea of what you will receive after 2-19-09 when all those channels are digital with the antenna system set up as it is now.



Very likely. I had a Blonder-Toungue Apt amplifier that only went up to 550MHZ, which of course is useless if your trying to get OTA HD. Another factor if there is no amp is cable length and cable type.


----------



## LenL

I am using quality RG6 cable. I have on several occasions received received excellent signal strength from all channels. Most of the NY channels are in the 70% plus range on most nights except for 11.1 and 9.1. which are around 50%. But there were 2 times since my September's OTA install that I was getting a signal strength of over 70% for 9.1 and 11.1 with the others 80% or better!


Just trying to understand why. Some suggest weather, humidity, wind etc. One of the times I got that great reception it was snowing here in Randolph! So far both times the reception was great was on weekends!


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL, do you have a signal amp? I'm asking because I recently discovered the cause of intermittent signal issues over the last few months was a faulty amplifier that was spitting out noise all over the place.


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15285517
> 
> 
> I am using quality RG6 cable. I have on several occasions received received excellent signal strength from all channels. Most of the NY channels are in the 70% plus range on most nights except for 11.1 and 9.1. which are around 50%. But there were 2 times since my September's OTA install that I was getting a signal strength of over 70% for 9.1 and 11.1 with the others 80% or better!
> 
> 
> Just trying to understand why. Some suggest weather, humidity, wind etc. One of the times I got that great reception it was snowing here in Randolph! So far both times the reception was great was on weekends!



The stations have been working on a broad band UHF antenna & the combiner at the ESB which may have brought an improvement.


----------



## LenL

I have a CM 4228 antenna and a Channel Master 7777 amp.


By the way...signal strength was around 51% for 11.1 and 9.1 last night. Right now they are both close to 80%. All of the NY stations are up close to 80% and higher this AM!


----------



## lexus2108





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15285517
> 
> 
> I am using quality RG6 cable. I have on several occasions received received excellent signal strength from all channels. Most of the NY channels are in the 70% plus range on most nights except for 11.1 and 9.1. which are around 50%. But there were 2 times since my September's OTA install that I was getting a signal strength of over 70% for 9.1 and 11.1 with the others 80% or better!
> 
> 
> Just trying to understand why. Some suggest weather, humidity, wind etc. One of the times I got that great reception it was snowing here in Randolph! So far both times the reception was great was on weekends!



I was trying to eliminate any fault of your own. You seem to have the right equipment. So it must be the weather. I can tell you mY aunt who lives in queens with a Terk-55 indoor antenna and she gets 90 signals. Except when it rains.


----------



## Trip in VA

If it's convenient, next time your strength takes a dive, try unplugging and replugging your CM7777. If it helps, it's a bad amp. If not, it's something else and I'm out of ideas.


- Trip


----------



## thecaptain2279

Hi


I have been reading about the recent signal loss that happened late last week. I checked my set top box over the weekend and saw that with only 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1 had enough strength to show a picture, with only 4.1 being at the high end.


7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 9.1, 9.2, 11.1 all are very low and I am not getting any picture at all, last checked this morning.


I have experienced this before and would just wait it out and in a couple days the signals would return.


My question to those affected is, has your signal strength returned as of yet? If so, did you do anything to solve the issue?


----------



## LenL

I had reception in the 80 to 90 signal strength range Sat night and by Sunday night it was back to 50 to 70 for the NY Stations.


I am using an amp and tried unplugging it and plugging it back in but it did nothing.


I am sensing that humidity may be an issue for some reason. It went up Sunday and my reception went down. Still trying that theory out and waiting for the humidity to drop down again.


I would suggest that you wait to see if you get better reception when we get some dry weather again and post your findings.


----------



## rothe

Just chiming in to say that you're not alone. As I've said before, I'm down here in Monmouth County, NJ, in the Asbury Park area. For the past few days, I've seen far more dropouts than I've seen in weeks. And we've had a range of weather conditions, so I'm reasonably certain that humidity is not the only contributor. They might be working on the combiner again, but we might never know for sure.


I'm not changing anything this time. Must... have... patience....


----------



## thecaptain2279

thanks for the replies everyone. I am glad I am not alone in this. Hopefully it sorts itself out in the next few days as its done before.


----------



## thecaptain2279

with the cloudy, cold weather, some changes have occured.


2.1 is coming in at a low strength

4.1 is strong again

5.1 has no signal whatsoever

5.2 nothing

7.1 no signal at all

7.2 nothing

7.3 nothing

9.1 low, with a lot of breakups

11.1 back to a strong signal


I wonder if 7.1 moved from the 45.1 digital channel as well as 5.1? Anyone know?


----------



## raj2001

Is NJN finally back in HD?


----------



## LenL

Tell us where you are located and what your antenna set up is.


----------



## thecaptain2279

I am in Northern NJ, bergen county.


I use an old Sony SAT 200 HD set top box and have it connected via coax cable to my roof antenna. No other equipment used.


thanks


----------



## rothe

I did two hours worth of video captures late this afternoon and into the early evening. It's raining/freezing rain down here -- in other words, adverse weather conditions for reception.


Still, I had no dropouts at all during this period. None. Zero.


Whatever the problem was over the weekend, I think it's fixed.


----------



## thecaptain2279

Well


I am happy to report that ALL my local stations have been fixed and are all broadcasting almost full strength.


----------



## LenL

All of the stations transmitting from the ESB are way down in reception for me. Most are with a signal strength under 60%. These stations I believe all transmit from ESB and reception is low today. WCBS-TV 2, WNBC-TV 4, WNYW 5, WABC-TV 7, WWOR-TV 9, WPIX-TV 11, WNET 13, WNYE-TV 25, WPXN-TV 31, WXTV 41, WNJU 47, and WFUT-TV 68.



However NJN 50.1 is still around 90% for me. Of course it is closer but if weather is a factor then why wouldn't that signal also be lower?


----------



## thecaptain2279

Checked this morning, and all the stations are still strong, 90% or higher, except for 2.1 which has fallen.


----------



## reddice

2.1 is a lost cause for me but you all know that already. 7 is my strongest station. I can peak it at over 85. 11 has also been stronger lately. Who knows how 7 and 11 are going to be when they move to high VHF. I have a feeling the reception is going to be much worse instead of better.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15320184
> 
> 
> All of the stations transmitting from the ESB are way down in reception for me. Most are with a signal strength under 60%. These stations I believe all transmit from ESB and reception is low today. WCBS-TV 2, WNBC-TV 4, WNYW 5, WABC-TV 7, WWOR-TV 9, WPIX-TV 11, WNET 13, WNYE-TV 25, WPXN-TV 31, WXTV 41, WNJU 47, and WFUT-TV 68.
> 
> 
> 
> However NJN 50.1 is still around 90% for me. Of course it is closer but if weather is a factor then why wouldn't that signal also be lower?



Your big problem over there is that you're basically right in the middle of a valley, relative to most of these transmitters. Without a topographical map, it would be really difficult to pinpoint exactly what causes various reception conditions for you. But get another look at TVfool.com for your location, and note how many of your channels are listed as 1Edge or 2Edge (single- or dual-edge diffraction). That basically means that the TV signal has to wrap around or over an obstacle - in your case, hills and "mountains." It *diffracts* much like sound waves go around a wall, or light passing through a prism. There's a techie description (that I mostly don't understand, actually) at http://www.wireless.per.nl/reference...03/diffrac.htm , but the illustrations give you enough of an idea of what radio wave diffraction is that we can talk about the concept.


I'm starting to realize, though, that humidity and ground/surface-wetness probably have larger effects (and wider ranging variations in effect) for people like you that do not have a line-of-sight (LOS) to various transmitting antennas.


It's pretty well established that trees have a different effect on the diffusion of transmitted signals during the summer vs during the winter. In the winter, the leaves are down, so the effect is less. My understanding of the issue is that it's not the plant fiber in the leaves that has this effect, but IT'S THE WATER contained in the leaves.


That ties right in with what I've read about attic antenna installations: when the roofing material or certain types of siding (wood or other materials that can absorb moisture) is wet, it will have a substantial effect on attic antenna reception.


Likewise, any wetness or increased moisture on the ground, trees, rocks, and other surfaces of a mountain or hill that blocks your view of a transmitter will all have an effect on the signal that diffracts around or over that mountain. And each of those tiny, reflected signals is being received at slightly different timing than the most prominent beam. All of the reflected signals are somewhat out of phase from the most prominent beam, and if some of those out of phase signals are approaching 180 degrees out of phase from the main signal, they'll weaken that signal. So the wet-surface diffusion of a radio beam going through wet trees, brush and other obstacles will ultimately take something away from a signal - in other words, it increases noise at the receiver. If the effect is strong enough, or if you were starting off with a fairly weak signal in the first place, you might very well lose reception during wet weather more than other people who have a line of sight view of the transmitter.


OK -- I've laid out my theory and I've convinced myself: all of you with single or dual edge diffraction reception (as listed in TV fool) are going to have more problems during wet weather than those of us with line of sight reception. Then again, this is just my theory. Anyone want to poke a hole in it?


----------



## LenL

Thanks for the explanation and all the work you put in to type it all up!


I do use TVFOOL and the results they provide and what I actually get are in some cases close and in other cases far off. According to TVFOOL 11.1 and 9.1 should be stronger than 7.1 and it is quite the opposite. Signal strength for 7.1 is usually mid 70's to mid 80's regardless of the weather and 11.1 and 9.1 are usually around 50 and sometimes come up to the mid 70's. Since they all broadcast from the ESB it is puzzling. I read that stations on the ESB all use different kinds of broadcast antennas and these antennas are located at different parts of the ESB at differing heights. I also wonder if the transmission signal is directed out not in 360 degrees equally but is stronger in certain compass directions.


While my line of sight is not good I am still about 800 feet above sea level. I have also found that leaves on trees have had no impact one way or the other. My reception back in September was as good if not better than is is today. There were lots of leaves on trees back then.


----------



## SnellKrell

You're trying to find logic in a "science" that will drive you crazy - digital UHF transmission in an urban area filled with tall buildings!


This won't help, but further indicate the lack of black and white answers.


2,4,7,9,11 and 13 currently use the same Combiner antenna on the ESB - and that antenna employs an omnidirectional pattern. Additionally, there is also a fill-in antenna array directed toward the southeast for Brooklyn and Queens.


Go figure!


As others have repeatedly mentioned here, reception is based on each station's frequency and ERP (Effective Radiated Power) - temperature, humidity and possibly if the transmission Gods are smiling.


----------



## LenL

Its snowing, sleeting, humidity around 100%, visibility is low and guess what? I just turned on the TV and signal strength for all the NY stations broadcasting from the ESB is in the 80% to 90% range. One of my usually bad stations 11.1 which was around 50% last night is now at 81%.


I give up.....


----------



## KML-224

It's been 100% snow here in New Britain, CT (southern Hartford County) so far. All of my digital signals seem to be about the same with maybe a tiny improvement with WHPX-DT (ION) channel 34 (analog 26) of New London. Not bad considering I rest an old pair of telescoping VHF rods on the back center of my Sanyo 26" LCD HDTV, with a converter box to the set's left, so I can compare the signals the two tuners get.


To keep this in the New York City metro, I've never received any digital signal from the city or Long Island to this day.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15339182
> 
> 
> Its snowing, sleeting, humidity around 100%, visibility is low and guess what? I just turned on the TV and signal strength for all the NY stations broadcasting from the ESB is in the 80% to 90% range. One of my usually bad stations 11.1 which was around 50% last night is now at 81%.
> 
> 
> I give up.....



I've always said, antenna reception is never an exact science, it's an artform.


----------



## tahoejoe

I have my radio shack antenna in my attic and there is plenty of snow on the roof and there's been no negative impact here.


----------



## cloney

Hi, i have read through a lot of posts and cannot figure out what antenna to get for my hdtv. I have a samsung 40" LN40 A500


I live in midtown west and can see the empire state building outside my window. I live in a condo (3rd floor) so cannot put any antennas outside or on the roofs, only indoors. The only problem is there is a huge AT+T building right across from my window, not sure if its a network tower and if its going to effect receiving signals.


Thanks for all your help!


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cloney* /forum/post/15350877
> 
> 
> Hi, i have read through a lot of posts and cannot figure out what antenna to get for my hdtv. I have a samsung 40" LN40 A500
> 
> 
> I live in midtown west and can see the empire state building outside my window. I live in a condo (3rd floor) so cannot put any antennas outside or on the roofs, only indoors. The only problem is there is a huge AT+T building right across from my window, not sure if its a network tower and if its going to effect receiving signals.
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your help!



Try a Zenith Silver Sensor


----------



## SnellKrell

I agree, try the Silver Sensor.


Good idea if you can return it if it doesn't do the job for you.


Be very patient, you'll have to find the "sweet spot" in your room that gives

the best reception of most channels.


Walk around your room with the antenna checking the readings of the signals.


Lots of luck!


----------



## pdroth

Can anyone recommend an outdoor antenna installer who does work on South Shore of Nassau Cty?? Figured this would be a great Xmas gift for the folks since they live in front of the TV.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pdroth* /forum/post/15355909
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend an outdoor antenna installer who does work on South Shore of Nassau Cty?? Figured this would be a great Xmas gift for the folks since they live in front of the TV.



Also include in the gift for the antenna person to come back and re-tune the antenna after the February 17th transition.


You want a gift that will be good for more than a month and half, or so!


----------



## jpru34

Reception was breaking up alot during the Giant game. Not suprising with the winds.


----------



## LenL

First I want to mentioned reception here in Randolph (Morris County 30 miles due west of the ESB) has been excellent from Friday 12/19 through Monday AM 12/22.


Snell and or Trip I have a question for you or anyone with an answer. On this forum I keep hearing about this equipment called a "Combiner". Just doing web searches all that seems to come up is a combiner for digital and analog radio on the ESB. I could not find one piece of info on the internet saying that TV was using a combiner. From what I could discern a combiner is used so that several stations can share a broadcast antenna and not interfere with one another. However everything I read points to the TV stations having their own antennas on the ESB at different locations and different designs and different transmission power.


So what does a combiner have to do with Feb 17 2009? Or today? For digital TV broadcasting from the ESB?


----------



## Trip in VA

The analog stations on ESB generally have their own antennas or are otherwise sharing (4 and 5 share I think, as might 7/11/13), but the digital signals of 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, and 13 are currently all using a combiner to share the same antenna. 5 has its own digital antenna.


After the transition, 2, 4, and 9 will remain on the combiner, while I believe 7, 11, and 13 may be on a common antenna (unsure), and 5 will stay put as well.


No guarantees that any of that information is correct (except that I know 5 is by itself and the rest of the VHFs are on the current combiner). I'd have to do some more reading of FCC filings to tell for sure.


- Trip


----------



## SOLTC

PDROTH,


Try WWW.hometheaterman.com .


They did a great job on my Winegard antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15358671
> 
> 
> The analog stations on ESB generally have their own antennas or are otherwise sharing (4 and 5 share I think, as might 7/11/13), but the digital signals of 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, and 13 are currently all using a combiner to share the same antenna. 5 has its own digital antenna.
> 
> 
> After the transition, 2, 4, and 9 will remain on the combiner, while I believe 7, 11, and 13 may be on a common antenna (unsure), and 5 will stay put as well.
> 
> 
> No guarantees that any of that information is correct (except that I know 5 is by itself and the rest of the VHFs are on the current combiner). I'd have to do some more reading of FCC filings to tell for sure.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip -


Come the transition, 7, 11 and 13 will have their own combiner and share the same Hi-VHF antenna.


----------



## pdroth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SOLTC* /forum/post/15366332
> 
> 
> PDROTH,
> 
> 
> Try WWW.hometheaterman.com .
> 
> 
> They did a great job on my Winegard antenna.




Thx!!!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15366373
> 
> 
> Trip -
> 
> 
> Come the transition, 7, 11 and 13 will have their own combiner and share the same Hi-VHF antenna.



But how would they come in. Right now 7 is my strongest channel. It could become my weakest.


----------



## SnellKrell

There is no way of knowing!!!!


What you're currently receiving has absolutely nothing to do with how things will be for you after the transition.


First, all three of those channels will be transmitting on different frequencies from those frequencies being used now.


Channel 7 is now broadcasting on 45; it will go to 7.

Channel 11 is now broadcasting on 33; it will go to 11.

Channel 13 is now broadcasting on 61; it will go to 13.


Their new combiner will be higher than the current one - logically, that should help.


ERPs (effective power) will be different. Although the Commission had hoped that stations would not be

penalized concerning the number of people served, once again, no one knows.


We all will have to play the waiting game.


Be assured that stations will petition the Commission for improvements, if needed (I'm sure they will be) once the change has been made.


----------



## Trip in VA

ABC has told the FCC they want more power than they've been granted. I have a feeling that if reception falls short, they will ask the FCC to boost power and, if granted, probably have the equipment handy to make it happen.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

I am asking because right now analog 7 is very ghostly and fuzzy and I hear that ghost means multipath and you all know how bad that is for digital reception.


----------



## reddice

Also I switched antennas with my mother again. I loaned her the UFO antenna and she gave me back the Terk's HDTVi that I loaned her. I notice reception a bit better with the Terk. The problem with the Radioshack antenna is that I will be pulling stations in like channel 4 (which is still weak by the way but I can still get it unlike channel 2) and channel 9 it would fluctuate and break out a lot more with the UFO. It would go to around 55 to 8 or even 0. The Terk does not do that much. It may pixlate a bit but it does not make it drop to 0 as much. It has a more stable signal. The UFO is really a huge peace of junk that was recommended on another forum. I got it because it is amplified which does not make a bit of difference, it looks cool and it suppose to be more directional that you can change with a remote. Should have never bought it and stick with the Terk but have it outside the closet in another room.


----------



## POWERFUL

The real RS antenna to get was the 15-1880. That one had a screen in the back of it for the bow tie, and I can tell you from personal experience of using it in a basement apartment in Flushing it was just perfect.


----------



## reddice

Have a picture of it?


----------



## O2C




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15370307
> 
> 
> Have a picture of it?


 Google is your friend .


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *O2C* /forum/post/15370788
> 
> Google is your friend .



Yep that's the one. Contact me with a PM and I'll let it go for even less than the RS UFO antenna. That one even works great here 35-40 miles out from the ESB in the sticks of LI, although I now have replaced it with an outdoor roof mounted antenna which I got an approval for (i.e. Dad).


----------



## reddice

Today I am able to pull in channel 2 but it is very weak. It pixelates a lot and I can only peak it at about 45 to 50. They must have boosted the power a bit but it is still unwatchable. I am also able to pull in channel 50. Channel 50 is now in 1080i HD. It is stronger and does not break up much. This is after doing a rescan.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15277879
> 
> 
> Most likely then there is a VHF amp inside an electrical room right under the antenna. How would you rate the quality of the signal you received from those analog channels. Like for example 7- great, 9- ghosty 11- fair 13- snowy. This will give you an idea of what you will receive after 2-19-09 when all those channels are digital with the antenna system set up as it is now.




sorry took so long to get back, but channel 7 is perfect it's almost watching a cable feed. Channel is is ok not that fuzzy also channel 13 like channel 7 is also perfect.


so from all the channels I can get..


Ch. 2 (snowy but comes in better at night)

ch. 3 (snow)

ch. 4 (watchable picture sometimes but too much snow)

ch. 5 (watchable picture but some snow)

ch. 6 (snow but I get this radio station)

ch. 7 (very clear 90% of the time)

ch. 8 (snow)

ch.9 (clean and clear)

ch. 11 (clear with some snow)

ch. 13 (very clear)


----------



## SubaruB4

also I is ABC-DT and NBC-DT down? the only ota HD I can get right now is CBS as of 12/25 2:53Am.


----------



## SubaruB4

check again as of 7:37Am ABC-DT and CBSHD and Wpix-HD all work again must of been some work done on the ESB?



Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## SnellKrell

What's going on at PIX?


Hadn't seen the Yule Log for years, heard all the promos about it now being in HD, so tuned in.


Huh?


It's SD, 4.3!


Did some one roll the wrong version?


Or did Santa Claus put coal in my LCD?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15377424
> 
> 
> What's going on at PIX?
> 
> 
> Hadn't seen the Yule Log for years, heard all the promos about it now being in HD, so tuned in.
> 
> 
> Huh?
> 
> 
> It's SD, 4.3!
> 
> 
> Did some one roll the wrong version?
> 
> 
> Or did Santa Claus put coal in my LCD?



I asked the same thing at another site!!!


i was like huh they said it would be in HD.. :-| going to be interesting what they say after it ends...


i thought it was just me...


*edited


I emailed WPIX about this


----------



## jpru34

I am pretty sure nobody is doing any work on the esb on christmas eve at 2 in the morning. Rather, the stations shut off their digital signal overnight to save a few $$$$.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/15377610
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure nobody is doing any work on the esb on christmas eve at 2 in the morning. Rather, the stations shut off their digital signal overnight to save a few $$$$.



hmm I wonder if this is something new they are trying.. I ran WXplus for 24 hr and it never went out but this morning I could not get anything but CBSHD.. at first i thought my silver sensor was messed up because it's outside and we had all this rain and snow. and I got no signal at all.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15377464
> 
> 
> I asked the same thing at another site!!!
> 
> 
> i was like huh they said it would be in HD.. :-| going to be interesting what they say after it ends...
> 
> 
> i thought it was just me...
> 
> 
> *edited
> 
> 
> I emailed WPIX about this



It was originally done in 4:3 35mm in 1970. However they did remaster it to HD quality.


----------



## SnellKrell

Sorry, it was 1966, shot on 16mm film at Gracie Mansion!


It wasn't remastered - it was reshot in California on 35mm.


A $4,000 rug was burned at Gracie Mansion during the original shoot,

and WPIX was not invited back.


That still doesn't answer the question of what is going on right now.


I know that the Tribune Company is in deep doo-doo, but this is ridiculous,

especially after all of the station's promos touting HD!


----------



## SubaruB4

What version is on the air now the 16mm or 35mm version?


the promo they had on a few days before had a tree and gifts beside the fireplace was the the 35mm version?


IMHO it's pointless watching the HD feed unless you like to have a black border around the screen.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's got to be the 35mm version.


The 16 was so over used, it started to fall apart - that's why they reshot it.


There was a 2003 upconversion to HD - I had assumed that would have been

Wide Screen.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15377739
> 
> 
> Sorry, it was 1966, shot on 16mm film at Gracie Mansion!
> 
> 
> It wasn't remastered - it was reshot in California on 35mm.
> 
> 
> A $4,000 rug was burned at Gracie Mansion during the original shoot,
> 
> and WPIX was not invited back.
> 
> 
> That still doesn't answer the question of what is going on right now.
> 
> 
> I know that the Tribune Company is in deep doo-doo, but this is ridiculous,
> 
> especially after all of the station's promos touting HD!



Thats what I meant. The version that they show today and every year is the 1970 California one. Last year or the year before there was a documentary on PIX on how they filmed it. Just recently they did remaster it. They showed the before and after results. It is 35 mm. But as far as I know it was shot in 4:3 so the side bars are normal.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15377810
> 
> 
> It's got to be the 35mm version.
> 
> 
> The 16 was so over used, it started to fall apart - that's why they reshot it.
> 
> 
> There was a 2003 upconversion to HD - I had assumed that would have been
> 
> Wide Screen.



ok I thought so just making sure.


showing SD on a HD feed I think is pointless IMHO.


----------



## SnellKrell

Question -


The PIX 11 bug in the lower right corner does not indicate HD.


For those who might know, with the station having recently changed the bug,

do they normally use HD to indicate a High Definition broadcast?


----------



## raj2001

I'm curious to know why they changed it to PIX 11 instead of CW11?


Oh, nevermind, apparently it has to do with Tribune trying to wean itself off the CW network...


----------



## SnellKrell

A while ago, Tribune, owner of 11, sold its approximately quarter interest in the original WB. The WB was then merged with UPN - so the CW is now 50% owned by Warner Bros. and the other 50 is with CBS.


The ratings for the CW haven't been all that good, so why should 11 continue to brand itself with a less than stellar network?


Also Zell, the new owner, may sell-off or find a partner for Tribune's stations.


Furthermore, the Tribune corporation is in bankruptcy!!


----------



## SubaruB4

wow that commercial was quick to come on.. I was expecting some kind of message at the end..


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15376888
> 
> 
> sorry took so long to get back, but channel 7 is perfect it's almost watching a cable feed. Channel is is ok not that fuzzy also channel 13 like channel 7 is also perfect.
> 
> 
> so from all the channels I can get..
> 
> 
> Ch. 2 (snowy but comes in better at night)
> 
> ch. 3 (snow)
> 
> ch. 4 (watchable picture sometimes but too much snow)
> 
> ch. 5 (watchable picture but some snow)
> 
> ch. 6 (snow but I get this radio station)
> 
> ch. 7 (very clear 90% of the time)
> 
> ch. 8 (snow)
> 
> ch.9 (clean and clear)
> 
> ch. 11 (clear with some snow)
> 
> ch. 13 (very clear)



After the 2-19-09 digital cut over you may be blessed with 7, 11 & 13. It may take a while for the stations to remove all the analog equip from the VHF antennas at the ESB. Some of the temp antennas may need to be removed to make room for the prem antennas. Some that are now on the side may move the the very tip top & maybe one right under it. Thus they may be a lot higher. Therefore providing a stronger signal that what is receive now. As far as those VHF channels, you may be in good shape just by using the antenna system provided by assuming what you now receive from the analog on those frequencys


Merry Christmas & God bless you


----------



## reddice

I hooked up my mothers Apex DT502 that I got her for Christmas. First we tried a cheap old pair of rabbit ears that she had lying around and all I was able to get with the scan was 25 (which broke up a lot) and 29 (yuk). So then I hooked up the RadioShack UFO and I was able to get 4 (weak), 5 ,7 , 9 and 11 were strong, 25, 29 (again yuk) and 47. She says she cares about 4 the most but it breaks up a lot. We have the antenna on top of her TV because when it was on its side I could not get 9 or 11.


----------



## Trip in VA

So, I am now in Fair Lawn NJ, with my Silver Sensor, no amp, no extra additions to the receive system. Just a DTT900. No subchannels included.


2-1

4-1

5-1

7-1

9-1

11-1

13-1 (Breaking up, obvious reasons here)

25-1

29-1

31-1 (Breaking up)

41-1

47-1

50-1

63-1

68-1 (Didn't scan in but was detected with signal on manual entry)


I'll have to use the FusionHDTV and get some new TSReader data.


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma

Did any one see The Sound of music in HD?


I watched it in 16:9 from ABC & it looked just like it did at the movies. Why any one would pay for digital cable when they can get something this great for free is beyond me. It would seem that with so many out of work or short of money that TV cable would be the first bill to get rid of. I am still trying to get my head above water since the gas spike last summer thus, TV cable of any kind is out of the question. I look at it as a waste of money.


Great job ABC


----------



## reddice

So true especially that when it is on cable or satellite TV you get the same amount of commercials or more than for free on ABC and they don't even always show it in HD. I still don't get how cable and satellite can have so many channels you have to pay for to see and they show just as many commercials or more than the free airwaves. You are paying for commercials. I think it is a real ripoff. If they pulled that with satellite or internet radio that you paid for I can see many cancellations but I guess for pay TV we pay even more for premium channels that are commercial free or pay less but still pay a lot for commercial ridden channels.


----------



## reddice

Also I am still getting channels 2 and 50. Channel 2 is still very weak as I can only peak it at about 55 and does break up sometimes. At certain times it can be watchable but at other times it breaks up bad. Channel 50 is more stable. This is all with the Terk HDTVi. I wonder if buying a amplifier that has to be plugged into a wall socket that I put in between the antenna and the TV would improve reception. Even a 10% jump would help a lot.


----------



## fredd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15402072
> 
> 
> ... I still don't get how cable and satellite can have so many channels you have to pay for to see and they show just as many commercials or more than the free airwaves. You are paying for commercials. I think it is a real ripoff. If they pulled that with satellite or internet radio that you paid for I can see many cancellations but I guess for pay TV we pay even more for premium channels that are commercial free or pay less but still pay a lot for commercial ridden channels.



Just a sign of the times. I went to the movies last week, paid $13.00, and had to sit through over 30 minutes of commercials and movie trailers before the feature even started. And then there were all the scenes with products or logos prominently on display. I say turn off the TV, stay home, light a nice fire in the fireplace, pour yourself a tumbler of scotch and read a good book (The last book I read was uncut with no commercial interuptions







).


----------



## mikepier

Anyone notice WABC 5:00 news tonite not in HD?


----------



## Falcon_77

It looks like we have an answer on what is going to happen at the top of ESB where WNBC/4 currently resides. WNJU's application to move there has been granted.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=73333 


3. Antenna Location Coordinates: (NAD 27)

Latitude: Degrees 40 Minutes 44 Seconds 54 North

Longitude: Degrees 73 Minutes 59 Seconds 10 West


5. Antenna Location Site Elevation Above Mean Sea Level: 15.5 meters

6. Overall Tower Height Above Ground Level: 443 meters

7. Height of Radiation Center Above Ground Level: 436.5 meters

8. Height of Radiation Center Above Average Terrain : 440 meters

9. Maximum Effective Radiated Power (average power): 650 kW


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15401775
> 
> 
> Did any one see The Sound of music in HD?
> 
> 
> I watched it in 16:9 from ABC & it looked just like it did at the movies. Why any one would pay for digital cable when they can get something this great for free is beyond me. It would seem that with so many out of work or short of money that TV cable would be the first bill to get rid of. I am still trying to get my head above water since the gas spike last summer thus, TV cable of any kind is out of the question. I look at it as a waste of money.
> 
> 
> Great job ABC



Well, personally I pay for cable because TV reception is extremely difficult here. I have to put my TV antenna on tower to just to get 3 out of 4 of the big 4 reliably. Service Electric (our cable company) invented cable TV for that purpose in fact - to bring TV to areas where reception is difficult.


So if I wasn't a ham radio operator with an 86ft tower it was either cable TV or a couple of religious channels, or DVDs.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15402104
> 
> 
> Also I am still getting channels 2 and 50. Channel 2 is still very weak as I can only peak it at about 55 and does break up sometimes. At certain times it can be watchable but at other times it breaks up bad. Channel 50 is more stable. This is all with the Terk HDTVi. I wonder if buying a amplifier that has to be plugged into a wall socket that I put in between the antenna and the TV would improve reception. Even a 10% jump would help a lot.



That's definitely multipath, as WNJN (50.1) is halfway between you and me so it won't have such strong reflections from the buildings in NYC.


I think what you need is an attenuator, not an amp.


----------



## reddice

Well I lost channel 2 the other day. I can only peak it at 20% now. It is running in low power. Not as low as 13 but still low. I am still getting channel 50 about the same power as channel 4. I don't believe it is so much multipath because 5 and 7 I can still get strong around 70 to 80. It is that 2 and 4 are running at less power. My mothers TV can get all the other channels strong except 4. 2 and 13 she can't get. What is a attenuator?


----------



## SnellKrell

The stations you mention are not running at low power.


The problem is with you and your reception, not the broadcasters!


----------



## Trip in VA

All stations except 13 and 31 are loud and clear here in Fair Lawn. I still think your problem is with multipath.


- Trip


----------



## R.F. Burns

I have an antenna mounted in my attic and whenever its windy I get momentary dropouts on otherwise strong HD TV stations. It isn't a matter of poor connections in my system. I discussed this with some people who have been at the Empire site and while I know that it's a work in progress this just doesn't make any sense to me. The problems are not seen on every station but on many, such as ch's 2, 5, & 7. I know that channel 2 & 7 will be relocated in February and channel 5 will be moving to a new antenna, I believe eventually in a shared arrangement with WNBC. I just don't know if I am the only one with this problem and if so is this a temporary situation?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15423552
> 
> 
> Well I lost channel 2 the other day. I can only peak it at 20% now. It is running in low power. Not as low as 13 but still low. I am still getting channel 50 about the same power as channel 4. I don't believe it is so much multipath because 5 and 7 I can still get strong around 70 to 80. It is that 2 and 4 are running at less power. My mothers TV can get all the other channels strong except 4. 2 and 13 she can't get. What is a attenuator?




I would connect the antenna to a analog TV or analog tuner & look at the analog UHF stations. Then write down on a note book paper of what you see for each channel. You may see why you are having problems on the digital stations that are currently on UHF. For example if you see ghost on the screen while tuned to a analog channel then the same multipath that is causing the ghost on analog is most likly causing the problems on your UHF digital channels.


Also you may want to take a look at the analog VHF high band [7-13] channels & write down notes on them. After 2-18-09 you will not be able to use the analog TV for test to see the condition of your antenna signal. So you may want to make that test now while the analog is still on the air. After 2-18-09 some of the stations vill move the digital signal from the UHF to the current analog high band channel.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/15426001
> 
> 
> I have an antenna mounted in my attic and whenever its windy I get momentary dropouts on otherwise strong HD TV stations. It isn't a matter of poor connections in my system. I discussed this with some people who have been at the Empire site and while I know that it's a work in progress this just doesn't make any sense to me. The problems are not seen on every station but on many, such as ch's 2, 5, & 7. I know that channel 2 & 7 will be relocated in February and channel 5 will be moving to a new antenna, I believe eventually in a shared arrangement with WNBC. I just don't know if I am the only one with this problem and if so is this a temporary situation?



Your information is different from mine.


What I believe will be happening is that 2 will not be relocating physically. It will remain on its current Comibiner but will be transmitting on a different frequency - Channel 33. This Combiner, come the transition, will be for the UHF transmission of 2 (33), 4 (28) and 9 (38).


7 will be moving further up the mast to share a current VHF antenna that will be connected to a Hi-VHF Combiner also serving 11 and 13.


I have heard that 5 (44) wants to move higher on the mast - but I do not know of any plan to share with 4, at the stations do now with their analog antenna.


Once all the analog antennas and facilities are removed, stations will look for greater ERP - power and/or height, and have submitted some plans that span until Fall of 2010.


----------



## reddice

It is not multipath because it would affect all of the channels but 5 and 7 come in strong. 2 was stronger but now it is not. If that was the case then all of the channels would have problems. 5 and 7 I can peak into the high 70's to 80's. 9 and 11 usually stays in the 60's. 4 I get around the 50's to low 60's so I know it is weak. 13 I have never got past 10 and 2 I get it weak around 20's.


What you don't get is that 2 and 13 on on higher channels at lower power. The 700 Mhz which is going to be auctioned off. When 2 goes to 33 I should have no problem getting it.


What annoys me most about digital is that if you get a signal below 40 it just drops out. I did not know that it was bad. I though it would have to be as low as 20 for you to lose it. But at around 40 it is a pixelated mess and 20 you get nothing. Also thinking that I only live 4 miles away from the ESB I though I would get all the NYC channels perfect and not the stupid NJ channels three to four times the distance much stronger. But you all heard that already and I understand things more than I use too.


By the way the poster you said to try analog. My TV has a analog tuner and I tried them and I get the UHF analog channels clear.


----------



## SnellKrell

You ignore that each channel is at a different frequency and that very fact can contribute to when multipath can occurs.


----------



## reddice

True but don't forget 2 and 13 are on the 700 Mhz. After 2/17/2009 no stations would be on that spectrum.


I just hope multipath is not worse on high VHF that 7, 11 and 13 are moving too. I have a feeling that I will be having problems getting those stations reliable after 2/17/2009 but time will tell.


----------



## Trip in VA

The NJ stations are weaker and thus less impacted by the multipath you're experiencing. Different frequencies have different wavelengths and thus propagate differently, so it's no surprise that some would suffer more from multipath than others. What you say about 2 and 13 being at the top of the band is very true, though it doesn't explain your similar complaints about 4.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

About 4 is that I can usually get it around the mid 50's to low 60's but it is still better with the Terk than the crud RS UFO. With the UFO it would be lower or around the same and it would just break up to 0 signal. Channel 5 and 9 would do that too. 7 is fine. With the Terk it handles multipath problems better. It still sometimes breaks up for a second but not as bad as with the RS UFO.


Also as the NJ stations I am at least glad I am getting channel 50 (for now anyway) since they actually broadcast in 1080i and have HD programs on unlike 29 and 47 which are in crappy 480i.


Also can anyone tell me what a attenuator is and compared to a amp?


----------



## Trip in VA

An attenuator does the opposite of an amplifier. Whereas an amplifier makes signals stronger (including reflected multipath signals), an attenuator makes all the signals weaker, which can help with multipath or if your receiver is being overloaded.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

Thanks for explaining.


----------



## reddice

By the way here is the weird part. I don't have a compos so I don't know for sure but I think I have my antenna pointed East and I get the ESB channels the way I have explained. If I point it toward the ESB I get the stations very weak even the NJ stations. I tried many positions and it all comes back to the same direction I have to point.


Also if you can explain this signal meter to me. This is from my TV.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/15418580
> 
> 
> So if I wasn't a ham radio operator with an 86ft tower it was either cable TV or a couple of religious channels, or DVDs.



speaking of ham radio I can forget about watching anything OTA HD if I start keying up.. 2m or 70m as soon as I press the transmit button by-by signal!


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15427929
> 
> 
> 
> By the way the poster you said to try analog. My TV has a analog tuner and I tried them and I get the UHF analog channels clear.



If you care to try any thing else & have the room; I know of 2 more test you can try.


First check the channels & write down the signal level on your DTV. Put a 3 way connecter [also called a t connecter] on your antenna line. Connect a analog TV to the extra port on the 3 way connecter. Then measure your DTV signals again & see if they went down. They should go down about 3 db. If they did then check to see if this lower signal affected your problems on the DTV channels. This would be like adding a very small attenuator. If the problems are about the same then turn the TV to one of the UHF analog channels. Then run both TVs & when the DTV is going in & out or the signal drops down look at the analog set to see if you see some type of interferance on the screen. If the analog TV was fine with no changes on the screen they change the analog tv to a different channel & do the same test. Maybe try all of the analog UHF channels & see if any things happens to the analog TV at the same time.


If this does not locate the problem ,then there is a 3rd test. But it would require a Spectrum Analyzer. If you have any friends near by who are HAM radio operators, who may have a Spectrum Analyzer that would come over & look at your signal.


I hope you will be able to find the problem before you need to go that deep technicaly


----------



## jpru34

I have had trouble picking up this station the last few days.... Is it b\\c of the wind? Still picking up all my other stations.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15426384
> 
> 
> Your information is different from mine.
> 
> 
> What I believe will be happening is that 2 will not be relocating physically. It will remain on its current Comibiner but will be transmitting on a different frequency - Channel 33. This Combiner, come the transition, will be for the UHF transmission of 2 (33), 4 (28) and 9 (38).
> 
> 
> 7 will be moving further up the mast to share a current VHF antenna that will be connected to a Hi-VHF Combiner also serving 11 and 13.
> 
> 
> I have heard that 5 (44) wants to move higher on the mast - but I do not know of any plan to share with 4, at the stations do now with their analog antenna.
> 
> 
> Once all the analog antennas and facilities are removed, stations will look for greater ERP - power and/or height, and have submitted some plans that span until Fall of 2010.



When I said 'relocate" I meant a spectral move, not a physical move. Also, From what I've heard WNBC has rights to the top of the mast and 5 will share that location with 4 through the use of a combiner.


----------



## jpru34

Anybody getting ION now? It is barely registering on my meter and I used to get in around 70 or 80. I am curious if it is just me, although I doubt it b\\c I am getting all my other channels just as strong as I always do.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15429138
> 
> 
> speaking of ham radio I can forget about watching anything OTA HD if I start keying up.. 2m or 70m as soon as I press the transmit button by-by signal!



As long as I keep the power below 500w on HF I am fine.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/15433646
> 
> 
> Anybody getting ION now? It is barely registering on my meter and I used to get in around 70 or 80. I am curious if it is just me, although I doubt it b\\c I am getting all my other channels just as strong as I always do.



I noticed this morning that the power was way down.


The station is altering its analog Channel 31 transmitter located at the ESB for its new digital 31 frequency.


I believe that the station will be temporarily moving its transmission site to the Richland tower in N.J. while the ESB facility has work being done.


Once the ESB work is finished the station will move back - this will be after the magic 2/17 date - end of April.


Viewers should expect things to be a bit "scewy" not just until 2/17 but even after. Lots of changes in the future.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/15433646
> 
> 
> Anybody getting ION now? It is barely registering on my meter and I used to get in around 70 or 80. I am curious if it is just me, although I doubt it b\\c I am getting all my other channels just as strong as I always do.



Wierd since you mentioned this. I noticed that now my program guide lists the ION channel and subchannels, although I still can't receive them due to distance and the antenna being in the attic.


----------



## reddice

I was never able to get ION anyway.


As for a attenuator it would make things worse. What you don't understand is that I tried cheap low power antennas and all I was able to pick up was channel 29 and sometimes 7 and 47. I need some kind of amp but I will decide after 2/17/2009 which is not that far away. I want to know so bad how 7, 11 and 13 are going to come in as high VHF because right now I can watch 7 and 11. Watched Smallville on 11 last night and it was clear. It only broke up a couple times for a second but I did not lose the picture. Just a little pixelation.


----------



## jaypb

Anyone else notice a faint vertical line running down the left hand side of their displays while watching the WABC presentation of the New Years Eve Dick Clark special? I was watching on D*'s MPEG-4 HD feed...and I didn't get a chance to check the OTA feed on any of my other setups to see if it was an ABC issue...or a D* MPEG-4 issue. I didn't get to check the MPEG-2 D* HD feed either for that matter.


It was noticeable enough that my neighbor even said, "Hey what's wrong with your TV"....but when I switched to any other HD/SD channels there was no line...and when the WABC feed switched to wherever Fergie was (LA??) there was no line.


Or was I the only one sober enough at 11:57pm to notice???


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/15448117
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice a faint vertical line running down the left hand side of their displays while watching the WABC presentation of the New Years Eve Dick Clark special? I was watching on D*'s MPEG-4 HD feed...and I didn't get a chance to check the OTA feed on any of my other setups to see if it was an ABC issue...or a D* MPEG-4 issue. I didn't get to check the MPEG-2 D* HD feed either for that matter.
> 
> 
> It was noticeable enough that my neighbor even said, "Hey what's wrong with your TV"....but when I switched to any other HD/SD channels there was no line...and when the WABC feed switched to wherever Fergie was (LA??) there was no line.
> 
> 
> Or was I the only one sober enough at 11:57pm to notice???



never bothered to check the HD feed but poor Dick, it was great to see him back however.


----------



## SubaruB4

hmm Interesting today on 1-3-09 half my analog stations have gone fuzzy.. my two clearest channels ABC 7 and Channel 13 have gone from clear to borderline poor.. with ABC 7 being the worst (and the closest transmitter) any work being planned for the analog side of things? I have yet to get the converter coupon I lost the first one so I need to get another one.


----------



## SnellKrell

Some of the analog stations have cut their power as they retrofit their analog transmitters as their primary or backup digital components.



What's being planned for analog is it's going bye-bye!


************************************************************ ******************************************


Just quickly checked some station filings with the FCC.


Specifically, 7 was scheduled to move its analog transmission from the ESB to Conde Nast (4 Times Square) until the switch over.


13 mentions converting half of its transmitter to digital.


Hope this helps.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15449441
> 
> 
> Some of the analog stations have cut their power as they retrofit their analog transmitters as their primary or backup digital components.
> 
> 
> 
> What's being planned for analog is it's going bye-bye!
> 
> 
> ************************************************************ ******************************************
> 
> 
> Just quickly checked some station filings with the FCC.
> 
> 
> Specifically, 7 was scheduled to move its analog transmission from the ESB to Conde Nast (4 Times Square) until the switch over.
> 
> 
> 13 mentions converting half of its transmitter to digital.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thanks for the heads up do you have a link to the FCC filings?


most of the channels have almost all went away.. gives me time to tweak my OTA HD a bit more


----------



## SnellKrell

Easiest way in via this thread.


Go to Post #7862 - Trip in VA


Click on Digital Transition Reports and you will see links next to stations.


Hope this helps.


----------



## SubaruB4

thanks got it










edit and seems like chans 7, 11, and 13 all got clear again.. hmm I'm sure WABC can switch transmitter sites remotely?


----------



## SnellKrell

During the transition, when 7 has been doing work on the ESB and also when work has been done on the Combiner that it currently shares with 2, 4, 9, 11 and 13, the station frequently has switched between ESB and Conde Nast - am sure this switching is all controlled remotely.


----------



## pjcampo

Hello - I am in Bergen county , NJ, Midland Park to be exact. We have an old roof top antenna (I really couldn't tell you what kind, other than that it is big!) and have been getting analog over the air for a while now. There is a long twin ribbon which we eventually (down the line) transform to 75ohm coax. We get a couple digital channels but they are unreliable except for like 7.


My hope is that converting this to RG-8 right at the antenna with an outdoor balun, and running a very short line straight to the TV (

Any thoughts on whether this is going to work? Is it likely we are losing much of the signal in the 300ohm ribbon cable and that the RG-8 will fix it?


Is it more likely that my big old roof top antenna will work better than any of the smaller low profile ones that are available?


If I take a picture of it would someone be able to identify the frequencies it works for?


Should I consider building my own directional antennae?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjcampo* /forum/post/15463973
> 
> 
> Hello - I am in Bergen county , NJ, Midland Park to be exact. We have an old roof top antenna (I really couldn't tell you what kind, other than that it is big!) and have been getting analog over the air for a while now. There is a long twin ribbon which we eventually (down the line) transform to 75ohm coax. We get a couple digital channels but they are unreliable except for like 7.
> 
> 
> My hope is that converting this to RG-8 right at the antenna with an outdoor balun, and running a very short line straight to the TV (
> 
> Any thoughts on whether this is going to work? Is it likely we are losing much of the signal in the 300ohm ribbon cable and that the RG-8 will fix it?
> 
> 
> Is it more likely that my big old roof top antenna will work better than any of the smaller low profile ones that are available?
> 
> 
> If I take a picture of it would someone be able to identify the frequencies it works for?
> 
> 
> Should I consider building my own directional antennae?



I would start with replacing the twin lead first, then go from there. I definately think you are going to see an improvement just by replacing the twin lead alone.


----------



## SnellKrell

I think you mean RG6 cable which is 75 ohms.


RG8 is 50 ohms.


----------



## pjcampo

i went to go switch it out, but its too scary haha. Nothing to hold onto... steep roof....


----------



## pjcampo

Yup rg6. I am doing my GMRS (462mhz) directional Yagi antenna on Rg8 at the same time here... and confusing myself.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjcampo* /forum/post/15463973
> 
> 
> If I take a picture of it would someone be able to identify the frequencies it works for?



More important than a picture would be some dimensions.


If it's like many roof-mounted antennas out there, it covers two or three bands: VHF-low (and FM in the same band), VHF-high, and UHF. VHF-low has the longest wavelength, so it needs the widest elements of a typical rooftop antenna. You'll probably see that the widest part of your antenna is as wide as 95 inches towards the back of the antenna. That's the VHF-low part, and that part will be largely useless for anything but FM reception after February 17.


The next set of elements, in the middle of the antenna or in the front, will be for VHF-high. I don't remember off the top of my head, but that section of the antenna might be two or three feet wide. Many of the stations in our broadcasting area will be using this band after the cut-over date.


If your roof-mounted antenna is a combination VHF/UHF antenna, then it will also have some very tiny elements - a few inches long - for UHF. This will also be vital to HD reception after the cut-over date, as most of the stations will be using these frequencies.


Once you've identified these sections of the antenna, you can *roughly* correlate its performance to the antennas currently available. Take note of the total length of your current antenna for comparison to currently available ones. Also, count the number of VHF-high and UHF elements, disregarding the number of VHF-low elements.


Now compare the number of elements and the length of your antenna to some commercially available VHF-high/UHF antennas. I bought one of Winegard's new line, so I'm familiar with that product line, and I'll recommend it as a point of comparison.


So if you have a 100 inch long antenna, with 38 elements, it might compare well to either a Winegard HD7695P ( http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/HD7695P.pdf ) or a HD7696P ( http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/HD7696P.pdf ). Winegard shows the decibel gain for each of these antennas over various frequency ranges in their spec sheets. Make note of those numbers. And if your antenna is substantially different in length and number of elements than the examples I cited, then find a current model that is close and, again, make note of the dB gain specifications.


Next, go to TVfool.com, and enter your location information. Take note of the signal strengths for various stations, as described in NEGATIVE decibel-meters, and add your antenna's approximate POSITIVE gain numbers for equivalent frequencies to those from TVfool. (For example, -80 plus 10 equals -70 at your location with your antenna.) For what it's worth, I'm reliably picking up stations that are showing up with -80 dBm; any less than that, and my reception falls apart quickly. This will give you a rough idea of how you will receive TV stations with that antenna.


And lastly, don't forget the old adage: "your mileage may vary."


----------



## pjcampo

So... anyone in this area have experience with the Winegard SquareShooter or MetroStar?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3364957 
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3382537 


EDIT: Posted that before I read the above post... more reading...


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjcampo* /forum/post/15463973
> 
> 
> Hello - I am in Bergen county , NJ, Midland Park to be exact. We have an old roof top antenna (I really couldn't tell you what kind, other than that it is big!) and have been getting analog over the air for a while now. There is a long twin ribbon which we eventually (down the line) transform to 75ohm coax. We get a couple digital channels but they are unreliable except for like 7.
> 
> 
> My hope is that converting this to RG-8 right at the antenna with an outdoor balun, and running a very short line straight to the TV (
> 
> Any thoughts on whether this is going to work? Is it likely we are losing much of the signal in the 300ohm ribbon cable and that the RG-8 will fix it?
> 
> 
> Is it more likely that my big old roof top antenna will work better than any of the smaller low profile ones that are available?
> 
> 
> If I take a picture of it would someone be able to identify the frequencies it works for?
> 
> 
> Should I consider building my own directional antennae?



If I see a photo of it I can tell you what you have.


If you see elements at the front that are about 3 inches wide then it will receive UHF. I would look at the condition of the 300 ohm lead. If it is chalky dried cracked or crumbles in you hand then it needs to be replaced. If it is ok then it needs to have 3 twist in it per foot. I would not replace the entire run with coax. Coax really has more loss than 300 ohm. But you need to be more careful with 300 ohm. In addition to the 3 twist per foot it needs stand off mounts to keep it from touching any metel surface. First it needs to be confirmed that the anntenna does have UHF elements. Also what is the signal level of the digital channels that you receive & the ones that are in & out. From what you have aready posted I think all you may need is the 12 db amp from K mart. They are about $14.95 each. If the location where you transform to 75ohm coax [like inside an attic or etc] if you have 110 ac,; Then connect the transformer to the input of this amp & plug the coax going to the TV into the out put of that amp. Coax attenuates UHF [where most of the digital stations are now] signals much more than VHF. Thus your signals will need this boost. If you aready get ch 7 digital then you may not need to do much to get the other channels. That aready says a lot about the condition of the antenna system.


Sent me a photo of the antenna & I will tell you what it is


----------



## pjcampo

Thanks, here it is:

http://xj.cdevco.net/temp/hdtvantenna.jpg 


A few thoughts here:


According to antennaweb, all of these stations are 

I don't think this antenna is even pointing to NYC. Assuming the shorter elements represent where the antenna should be pointing and the longest one goes towards the rear?


I'd love to replace the ribbon with coax, and remove the ribbon hanging on the side of my house (it does seem to have insulated cable holders but I don't see the "twists"), which is pretty ugly. If I should be keeping the ribbon (really?!) I'd like to at least re-route the ribbon inside of the attic near the roof and still be able to remove the ribbon hanging on the side of the house.


I see that on these antennaweb type sites, there's difference compass heading information for pre and post Feb 19. Are the stations that are already broadcasting digital going to be changing the location from which the TX? Am I going to have to re-adjust or re-assess the situation after Feb 19?


I have pretty much decided the going on the roof isn't going to happen so I am going to have to rent or more likely buy a huge ladder either way. I can't tell how big it is without getting closer and I am not ready to die just yet!!!


Finally, I'm not closed to buying a new antenna, but if that is the case I'd love for it to be a little bit of a smaller profile. Also not entirely opposed to a signal amp in the attic, although prefer not to have more "phantom loads" than necessary (rather have a bigger outdoor antenna and not need a booster).


----------



## SnellKrell

There will be stations moving to the Empire State Building and the Conde Nast Building

(4 Times Square).


You should determine which stations are of interest to you.


If they are in varying locations - from Bergen County, there should not really be a difference between ESB and Conde Nast - you may want to consider a rotor for your antenna's mast.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjcampo* /forum/post/15472150
> 
> 
> Thanks, here it is:
> 
> http://xj.cdevco.net/temp/hdtvantenna.jpg



There are no UHF elements on that model. (And it's probably ancient -- good luck finding what older model that is!) That will limit you to just a handful of stations after the cross-over date.



> Quote:
> A few thoughts here:
> 
> 
> According to antennaweb, all of these stations are
> 
> 
> That's all good news. Antennaweb's color-coded antenna recommendations should give you some idea of what size antenna you'll need, but I wouldn't hesitate to go one size larger than their recommendation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> I don't think this antenna is even pointing to NYC. Assuming the shorter elements represent where the antenna should be pointing and the longest one goes towards the rear?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect orientation is pretty common in this era when most households haven't used their roof-mounted antennas in decades. And yes, the shorter elements are at the front of the antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> I'd love to replace the ribbon with coax, and remove the ribbon hanging on the side of my house (it does seem to have insulated cable holders but I don't see the "twists"), which is pretty ugly. If I should be keeping the ribbon (really?!) I'd like to at least re-route the ribbon inside of the attic near the roof and still be able to remove the ribbon hanging on the side of the house.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't agree with the advice to retain the ribbon cable. It's very susceptible to interference from all sorts of sources. Do some Google searches, and you'll find that most of the recommendations are for switching to coax. For one such recommendation, see "Transmission cable" here: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> I see that on these antennaweb type sites, there's difference compass heading information for pre and post Feb 19. Are the stations that are already broadcasting digital going to be changing the location from which the TX? Am I going to have to re-adjust or re-assess the situation after Feb 19?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SnellKrell covered this, and he was right-on with his advice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> I have pretty much decided the going on the roof isn't going to happen so I am going to have to rent or more likely buy a huge ladder either way. I can't tell how big it is without getting closer and I am not ready to die just yet!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are companies that do these installations. Look up satellite/cable installers in your area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Finally, I'm not closed to buying a new antenna, but if that is the case I'd love for it to be a little bit of a smaller profile. Also not entirely opposed to a signal amp in the attic, although prefer not to have more "phantom loads" than necessary (rather have a bigger outdoor antenna and not need a booster).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you get a new antenna and switch to coax, then it might be worth your while to add an antenna-mounted pre-amp to address the signal loss from a long cable run. Modern pre-amps are typically pretty small and they get their power through the same coax that you're already running up to the antenna, so there's a minimum of extra work to do. Read that same page that I referenced above.
Click to expand...


----------



## pjcampo

Thanks a lot for the replies. I had the same thoughts about switching to coax (not keeping the ribbon). I picked up some RG-6. If it is worth the extra dollars, I can even go quad shield. I am looking at a very short run, from antenna to TV (we only have 1 TV), probably http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882172015.


I noticed WPIX-DT, is VHF, not UHF, and it is one of the channels we enjoy.

http://winegard.com/offair/zone2.htm seems to suggest the HD7000R as the premiere Zone 2 antenna,but I don't see that available anywhere...


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjcampo* /forum/post/15472150
> 
> 
> Thanks, here it is:
> 
> http://xj.cdevco.net/temp/hdtvantenna.jpg
> 
> 
> A few thoughts here:
> 
> 
> According to antennaweb, all of these stations are
> 
> I don't think this antenna is even pointing to NYC. Assuming the shorter elements represent where the antenna should be pointing and the longest one goes towards the rear?
> 
> 
> I'd love to replace the ribbon with coax, and remove the ribbon hanging on the side of my house (it does seem to have insulated cable holders but I don't see the "twists"), which is pretty ugly. If I should be keeping the ribbon (really?!) I'd like to at least re-route the ribbon inside of the attic near the roof and still be able to remove the ribbon hanging on the side of the house.
> 
> 
> I see that on these antennaweb type sites, there's difference compass heading information for pre and post Feb 19. Are the stations that are already broadcasting digital going to be changing the location from which the TX? Am I going to have to re-adjust or re-assess the situation after Feb 19?
> 
> 
> I have pretty much decided the going on the roof isn't going to happen so I am going to have to rent or more likely buy a huge ladder either way. I can't tell how big it is without getting closer and I am not ready to die just yet!!!
> 
> 
> Finally, I'm not closed to buying a new antenna, but if that is the case I'd love for it to be a little bit of a smaller profile. Also not entirely opposed to a signal amp in the attic, although prefer not to have more "phantom loads" than necessary (rather have a bigger outdoor antenna and not need a booster).




That antenna is a channel master crossfire model 3614 VHF suburban range antenna. I have installed many of them at the TV shop I worked years ago.


If you fear going on the roof then I would leave that antenna as is & run the flat lead inside to the amp. Then I would buy a UHF yagi antenna like this one from Radio Shack http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103088 and use seperate antennas. I would put the UHF antenna inside the attic. Then obtain a UHF-VHF antenna joiner like http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmjoiner.htm 

to joint the antennas together. If you use just a regular T connecter the UHF signal will try to go out the VHF antenna & vis versa thus weaking your signal.


Could you post a list the analog channels you receive with a word or two on each channel for what you see on the screen like 7-great 9-ghosty 11-a little snow 13-a lot of snow and can bearly see the screen. Also do you receive any digital channels through this antenna system. If so are they solid or in & out. Could you list them too. That will provide more information of the condition of the antenna system. In 2006 I was up on a roof & some of the sand on the shingles came lose & I started sliding on the roof. I had to grab the mast & hold on to stop. My suggestion is to cobtain all the information on the current antenna system you have thus see what you have or do not have. Thus see what equipement you will need before going on the roof. With the risk it may be best to use it as it is & add the UHF in the attic.


----------



## rothe

That Winegard looks good for you. But I'll just point out one thing:


Many of the latest offerings from the major antenna manufacturers are tuned specifically for VHF-high and UHF, with none of the longer (wider, actually) elements that used to be for VHF-low. These newer antennas can be tuned for slightly higher gain and directionality in these two higher bands than what could be done with a three-band TV antenna with equivalent boom length and number of elements in earlier generations. The end result is that the newer antennas are smaller (same length but narrower) with less wind-load than an older model. That 7210 is from a prior generation; a newer model with a similar boom length would be the 7694. It *might* be a marginally better antenna for you.


You're only going to do this once. Well, until a flying tree-branch takes it down, that is!


----------



## pjcampo

Oddly enough before I took it down, I checked on the digital channels (we don't currently watch these, because we haven't set up our digital Tivo yet ,and we watch everything via the Tivo); many were coming in - 2.1 4.1 5.1 7.1 9.1, but not 11.1. According to antennaweb, all of those are UHF not VHF??? I was going to think about trying to hook up that RG6 to the existing antenna, and point it correctly but it just wasn't happening. The existing antenna had 1 bracket bent, so it was being held on via 3 lag screws instead of 4, hence the pointing in the wrong direction. It was all rusted and I just didn't want to be working on int up in the air. We ended up getting the thing to the ground, took a good hour to do it slowly and safely. The thing is huge! We broke a few elements in the process. I'm thinking of re-using the pole though, and the brackets can be salvaged as well.


Is there a place I can find the exact frequencies these stations TX on?


----------



## SnellKrell

Go to posting #7862 on this thread - "Trip in Virginia" and click on Trip's

Digital Translation Reports link.


Realize that come midnight, 2/17 a number of the current channel frequencies will be changed - Such as 2 goes from 56 to 33; 7 goes from 45 to 7; 11 goes from 33 to 11 and 13 goes from 61 to 13. There are additional changes.


Forget antennaweb about frequencies and rely on Trip, he's more accurate and knowing.


If the mast (pole) and its associated hardware (brackets, etc) are secure and in good shape - use it.


----------



## rothe

I was just about to chime in and say that David's suggestion is an interesting one, especially so in that it keeps you off the roof! But it doesn't matter now, considering the new state of that antenna.


As for exact frequencies, just Google "tv channel frequencies." Or are you asking about virtual channels (like 7.1) vs real channels (45)? Both of those can be found in the various columns of the charts on antennaweb.org and tvfool.com.


----------



## gmal1

I would just try a bow tie first and see what you get, and if you do get stations,are they all the ones you want? This is the simplest solution, especially if you have good line of sight. Try is indoors first,a nd if thats not good, use a longer cable, and try it outdoors. That way, you'll know for sure if teh roof mount is worthwhile.


----------



## gmal1

I thought I'd share my experience, as I found many of the comments here quite helpful in getting to this point.

Eastern Queens, just past the Clearview Expy. Hooked up the Apex converter box to a simple bowtie from Radio Shack, with a 25 foot RG9 (or whatever I had lying around). Receive nearly every channel in antennaweb, and all the main ones, perfect picture. Antenna is indoors, and works near the TV also.

The Apex is very nice, great controls, easy setup, volume control on remote is nice too. Wont be needing the tv remote except to switch back to the cable wire (we dont have "cable", we have 'free tv' over cable via the internet coax).

Just waiting for the fed funds to clear up to get the other boxes we need.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/15477921
> 
> 
> I was just about to chime in and say that David's suggestion is an interesting one, especially so in that it keeps you off the roof! But it doesn't matter now, considering the new state of that antenna.
> 
> 
> As for exact frequencies, just Google "tv channel frequencies." Or are you asking about virtual channels (like 7.1) vs real channels (45)? Both of those can be found in the various columns of the charts on antennaweb.org and tvfool.com.



That is what I call standing in faith Like said "For He shall give his angels charge over thee, to bear thee in all thy ways. They shall bear thee up in their hands lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. " Psalms 91:11 & 12



I agree with rothe about the antenna. You will not need a antenna with the long elements cut for VHF low band. After 2-18-09 they will only provide you is FM radio signal. Other than FM they are a wasted wind load. After you get a new antenna if you feel safe then mount it on the roof like the old one.


I would not put a preamp on it thou. I would try with out it first & see how well your signals are. Then if you are having problems after around 3-1-09 you may want to think about adding a amp. After they remove the analog low band antenna at the ESB, move some of the digital transmitter to the VHF high band channels & some of the UHF channels move up near the tip of the tower, the digital stations will get a much stronger.


If you plan to use a amp, I would still use a indoor amp & not a preamp. Preamps will not carry many strong channels at the same time. Some of the preamps give their specifications with only 4 stations. Since most all the stations are at the EBS they all will be coming in at the same time. Thus if you really get strong signals you could over load the preamp. Indoor amps like the one from Kmart are build to carry many strong channels like you would receive from TV cable with out overlaoding.


If think you may want to use the amp, then I would run the new coax from the antenna to where it would enter in the attic on it's way to the TV. Thus if you add ithe amp the run would be short as possible so you lose very little signal though the rg6 before it gets a boost at the amp.


Also if you know how to cut & terminate rg6 you could cut the coax near the location where it would enter the attic & run the coax inside to the amp. That way if you decide to add the amp later, you can. You would run it to the input on the amp. Then connect the rest of the coax going down to the TV to the output of the amp. Of cource you will need to add F connectors to the coax where you cut it.


You may get your signal strong enough that you do not need a amp. But this way if you do you will not need to go back on the roof to do it.


Another note about pre amps is that they are made for very weak signals. I have seen a case where a customer added a preamp to get a weak distant station. But they also received stronger UHF stations. When the pre amp was added the really made the reception on the screen worse. Also the strong UHF stations came in so strong the were flooded in on 2 or 3 places on the UHF dial. Also the interfered with the good stations they could receive. Thus they got better reception on the screen with out the preamp.


I pray for God's blessings on you while on the roof.


----------



## reddice

Just to say that channel 4 is running stronger. My mother watched it yesterday on her Apex converter box and it did not pixlate or break up. I was also able to peak it at around 65 to 68. When they remove the low band antenna like you said I hope the digital stations get stronger.


----------



## reddice

Also when they switch over to digital on 2/17/2009 will you have to do a rescan on your digital TV's and converter boxes?


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes. WNBC, WNYW, and WWOR won't move, but the rest of the "VHF" stations will.


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15486450
> 
> 
> Also when they switch over to digital on 2/17/2009 will you have to do a rescan on your digital TV's and converter boxes?



At what hour they flip the switch off on the analog transmitter I do not know. I think that midnight the analog must be off the air. I have not seen any posting on the site here from any of the station engineers. So I do not know what there plans are or how old the analog VHF high band transsmitters are. If some are of the newer module design, then like for example if WABC analog transmitter can be converted; I assume the would shut the analog down early & begin replacing the modules. Some of the stations have 2 transmitters. If WABC does then they will convert one of them ahead of time.


Thus if the remaining analog fails WABC analog would be off the air until the fixed the transmitter. But before the digital came on the air, WABC would have just switched the failed transmitter down & switched 2nd transmitter on.


If WABC has a spare transmitter they may convert it or may aready have it converted, test & ready to go on the air. If that is the case they they must shut down the analog transmitter & most like trun on a digital transmitter over ch 7. If it is running with out any problems they will shut down the digital UHF transmitter. At that time if you are watching WABC or the next time you watch WABC you will then need to do a rescan.


My guess is that WABC may shut down the analog several hours before the FCC analog drop dead dead line & that they aready have the digital transmitter tested & ready to go on the air over ch 7. They do not there is going to be some station engineers sweating bullets on the 2-17-09 & some stations will be off the air making the change. I think that most will be ready. They will still need to use the temporay digital antennes even after 2-19-09 because they can not take most of the analog antennas down until after 2-19-09 because they are still using them for the low band analog.


----------



## SnellKrell

 http://www.broadcastingcable.com/CA6627445.htm 


Take a look at this one!


There is a possibility that the government may scrap the 2/17 date for the transition and delay it until June.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15491134
> 
> 
> At what hour they flip the switch off on the analog transmitter I do not know. I think that midnight the analog must be off the air. I have not seen any posting on the site here from any of the station engineers. So I do not know what there plans are or how old the analog VHF high band transsmitters are. If some are of the newer module design, then like for example if WABC analog transmitter can be converted; I assume the would shut the analog down early & begin replacing the modules. Some of the stations have 2 transmitters. If WABC does then they will convert one of them ahead of time.
> 
> 
> Thus if the remaining analog fails WABC analog would be off the air until the fixed the transmitter. But before the digital came on the air, WABC would have just switched the failed transmitter down & switched 2nd transmitter on.
> 
> 
> If WABC has a spare transmitter they may convert it or may aready have it converted, test & ready to go on the air. If that is the case they they must shut down the analog transmitter & most like trun on a digital transmitter over ch 7. If it is running with out any problems they will shut down the digital UHF transmitter. At that time if you are watching WABC or the next time you watch WABC you will then need to do a rescan.
> 
> 
> My guess is that WABC may shut down the analog several hours before the FCC analog drop dead dead line & that they aready have the digital transmitter tested & ready to go on the air over ch 7. They do not there is going to be some station engineers sweating bullets on the 2-17-09 & some stations will be off the air making the change. I think that most will be ready. They will need to use the temporay digital antennes even after the change because they can not take most of the analog down until after 2-19-09 because they are stil using them for the low band analog.




YOu don't have to wonder...

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=694872


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15491134
> 
> 
> At what hour they flip the switch off on the analog transmitter I do not know. I think that midnight the analog must be off the air. I have not seen any posting on the site here from any of the station engineers. So I do not know what there plans are or how old the analog VHF high band transsmitters are. If some are of the newer module design, then like for example if WABC analog transmitter can be converted; I assume the would shut the analog down early & begin replacing the modules. Some of the stations have 2 transmitters. If WABC does then they will convert one of them ahead of time.
> 
> 
> Thus if the remaining analog fails WABC analog would be off the air until the fixed the transmitter. But before the digital came on the air, WABC would have just switched the failed transmitter down & switched 2nd transmitter on.
> 
> 
> If WABC has a spare transmitter they may convert it or may aready have it converted, test & ready to go on the air. If that is the case they they must shut down the analog transmitter & most like trun on a digital transmitter over ch 7. If it is running with out any problems they will shut down the digital UHF transmitter. At that time if you are watching WABC or the next time you watch WABC you will then need to do a rescan.
> 
> 
> My guess is that WABC may shut down the analog several hours before the FCC analog drop dead dead line & that they aready have the digital transmitter tested & ready to go on the air over ch 7. They do not there is going to be some station engineers sweating bullets on the 2-17-09 & some stations will be off the air making the change. I think that most will be ready. They will need to use the temporay digital antennes even after the change because they can not take most of the analog down until after 2-19-09 because they are stil using them for the low band analog.



If the transition takes place on 2/17 it will be at midnight.


All of your supposition concerning WABC is clearly spelled out in detail in the station's filing with the Commission.


If you're interested, go to post #7904 in this tread - "Trip in Virginia" -

click on "Digital Transition Reports."


Then click on WABC's filing.


At the bottom of the official FCC form you will see the link to the Exhibit.


Enjoy!


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15491260
> 
> 
> If the transition takes place on 2/17 it will be at midnight.
> 
> 
> All of your supposition concerning WABC is clearly spelled out in detail in the station's filing with the Commission.
> 
> 
> If you're interested, go to post #7904 in this tread - "Trip in Virginia" -
> 
> click on "Digital Transition Reports."
> 
> 
> Then click on WABC's filing.
> 
> 
> At the bottom of the official FCC form you will see the link to the Exhibit.
> 
> 
> Enjoy!



Thanks for the info.


btw It looks like they are ready for digital. It would seem to me delaying the cut over will just cost more money with the stations running two transmitter & etc. I am sure they are looking forward to shutting down the analog so they could save electric cost.


----------



## SemiChemE

Hi,


An AVS Forum Newbie here. I live in Poughkeepsie, NY, which appears to be in a broadcast vacuum. According to the various FCC Service maps, my house is about 8 miles north of the service area for the New York City stations, about 5 miles south of the Albany stations and about 5 miles West of the Hartford stations. In all cases, I'm about 60-70 miles from the various broadcast antennas. Is there any hope that with a newer (better) antenna, I might be able to pick up the digital transmissions from any of these stations?


I currently can receive the following analog stations (WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WPIX, WNET) using a very old attic-mounted antenna of unknown make. In all cases the signals have light-to-moderate snow (WPIX and WNET have heavy snow at times). TVfool.com and antennaweb.com both suggest that I should have better luck with the Albany stations, but of those I can only pick up WXXA-TV (23) and the quality is comparable to the NYC stations.


Can anyone explain why I can get NYC stations, but not Albany stations? It's possible that my antenna is VHF only, but I should still get Channel 10 from Albany. Any thoughts?


As for digital, I currently receive the local stations WTBY (27) and WRNN (48), but cannot receive any signal from NYC or Albany. Is it worth it for me to invest in a better Antenna, or will I still fail to receive the weaker Digital Signals?


----------



## Trip in VA

Plug your information into TVFool.com and post the results here. That'll give us here a better idea of your situation.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

You really never know until you go through the expense, time and trouble of installing a new antenna.


First, do you want to receive stations from Albany, NYC and Hartford/New Haven?


If so, I would suggest a rotor mounted on an outdoor antenna placed as high as possible on your property - you probably will need a good, low-noise preamp.


Do others in your neighborhood have an outdoor antenna?


If so, ask what they are using, which channels they receive and how satisfield they are with their reception.


Unless you're a confirmed do-it-yourselfer, deal with a local merchant who knows the terrain.


Concerning Channel 10, WTEN it will be moving to Channel 26 and is supposed to reach a bit more than 50 miles.


Wish you well!


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/15496549
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> An AVS Forum Newbie here. I live in Poughkeepsie, NY, which appears to be in a broadcast vacuum. According to the various FCC Service maps, my house is about 8 miles north of the service area for the New York City stations, about 5 miles south of the Albany stations and about 5 miles West of the Hartford stations. In all cases, I'm about 60-70 miles from the various broadcast antennas. Is there any hope that with a newer (better) antenna, I might be able to pick up the digital transmissions from any of these stations?
> 
> 
> I currently can receive the following analog stations (WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WPIX, WNET) using a very old attic-mounted antenna of unknown make. In all cases the signals have light-to-moderate snow (WPIX and WNET have heavy snow at times). TVfool.com and antennaweb.com both suggest that I should have better luck with the Albany stations, but of those I can only pick up WXXA-TV (23) and the quality is comparable to the NYC stations.
> 
> 
> Can anyone explain why I can get NYC stations, but not Albany stations? It's possible that my antenna is VHF only, but I should still get Channel 10 from Albany. Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> As for digital, I currently receive the local stations WTBY (27) and WRNN (48), but cannot receive any signal from NYC or Albany. Is it worth it for me to invest in a better Antenna, or will I still fail to receive the weaker Digital Signals?



go to http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html then type the call sign in of the station you want to see. Then press go. It list out the stations; Both the analog & the digital will be listed. Choose the one that says DT. The go down the the link

Service Contour Map (41 dBu) then click on it. That will show you a map showiing the range of the station. It will not take in to account of ground height thou. You could have a clear shot at the ESB & hills blocking Albany. So you will need to find a topographice map. That will show the hills around you. If you have a digital camara, take a photo of it & post it here. We can tell you what kind of antenna you have. Also what kind of lead do you have for your antenna wire? Is there an amp of any kind on the antenna wire? I assume that some one else installed this antenna. They may have wanted the NYC stations & have it pointed to the ESB.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/15496549
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> An AVS Forum Newbie here. I live in Poughkeepsie, NY, which appears to be in a broadcast vacuum. According to the various FCC Service maps, my house is about 8 miles north of the service area for the New York City stations, about 5 miles south of the Albany stations and about 5 miles West of the Hartford stations. In all cases, I'm about 60-70 miles from the various broadcast antennas. Is there any hope that with a newer (better) antenna, I might be able to pick up the digital transmissions from any of these stations?



First off, mount the antenna outside and test it. And make sure you are using RG6 cable. Try to keep the cable as short as possible. That is the cheapest way right now to find out rather than go through the expense of buying all the stuff only to find out it does not work.

Is it possible to post a pic of what kind of antenna you have?


----------



## SemiChemE

I'm relatively new to the area (moved here in 2007). So far, I haven't found any neighbors trying to get OTA television. Most people have Cable/Satellite/FiOS. I'm trying to determine if I'll have to do the same after the DTV transition.


I'll try to post a picture of my antenna in a future post. I actually have two antenna's in my attic. One, which is not currently connected, appears to have a pre-amp labeled "Taco Electric 19001". Has anybody heard of this? I don't have the power supply, so I'm doubtful that I could get it to work, but if somebody recognizes it, let me know if it's something I should bother with.


The other antenna was originally connected with ~40ft of Twinlead cable. However, I recently replaced this with ~40ft of RG-6 Coax, connected through a Balun to about 8 inches of the Twinlead cable which connects directly to the antenna. Is there a better way to connect the RG-6 coax? Also, would a pre-amp help reduce losses from this relatively long cable run?


Unfortunately, there's not really room in the attic to re-orient the antenna, so I'm pretty much stuck with what I've got unless I move it outside.


I'll post TVFool.com results in a little later, when the AVSforum stops thinking that I'm a spammer.


----------



## jpru34

Any word on the implication for our OTA reception if the switchover gets delayed (other than the obvious implications)? In other words, with all the antenna work being done on the ESB now, I am curious what, if anything, would happen as a result of an unanticipated delay of the switchover?


----------



## Trip in VA

What do your analogs look like? Particularly channel 41 (Univision in New York), channels 10 and 17 or 23 from Albany? That can tell a lot about what your digital reception will be like.


- Trip


----------



## R.F. Burns

I've been told that the FCC has already sold the part of the spectrum which TV will abandon. That said delaying the date of analog shut down might open the government to lawsuits. The delay would also cause extra expenses for broadcasters who willl have to maintain extra transmitters and pay their extra electric bills as well as rent at some transmitter locations. I think the idea of a delay is a nice thought but in reality, the switch to all digital has been delayed years already, first by the events of 9-11-2001.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/15499129
> 
> 
> I'm relatively new to the area (moved here in 2007). So far, I haven't found any neighbors trying to get OTA television. Most people have Cable/Satellite/FiOS. I'm trying to determine if I'll have to do the same after the DTV transition.
> 
> 
> I'll try to post a picture of my antenna in a future post. I actually have two antenna's in my attic. One, which is not currently connected, appears to have a pre-amp labeled "Taco Electric 19001". Has anybody heard of this? I don't have the power supply, so I'm doubtful that I could get it to work, but if somebody recognizes it, let me know if it's something I should bother with.
> 
> 
> The other antenna was originally connected with ~40ft of Twinlead cable. However, I recently replaced this with ~40ft of RG-6 Coax, connected through a Balun to about 8 inches of the Twinlead cable which connects directly to the antenna. Is there a better way to connect the RG-6 coax? Also, would a pre-amp help reduce losses from this relatively long cable run?
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, there's not really room in the attic to re-orient the antenna, so I'm pretty much stuck with what I've got unless I move it outside.
> 
> 
> I'll post TVFool.com results in a little later, when the AVSforum stops thinking that I'm a spammer.




Take a look around the house & see about a location to mount a antenna. Do you have a chimmy or a gable. There are some gable mounts that have 2 brackets. Thus you do not have a pipe going down to the ground like a wall mount does.


Also do you have a 110 ac outlet in your attic.


If you do a 12 db amp from K mart is about $14.95 each. At the location where you transform to 75ohm coax connect the transformer to the input of this amp & plug the coax going to the TV into the out put of that amp.


300 ohm need stand off mounts to keep it 3 twist per foot so it will sheild it self & not pick up any interfernce.


If the analog channels that you now receive from the ESB @ NYC do not have any ghost, then iwould try this amp & see if it will boost the weak signals for the digital stations you would like to receive from NYC. The may be coming in on your antenna but are not strong enough to overcome the loss of the coax. This amp may help.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/15500260
> 
> 
> Any word on the implication for our OTA reception if the switchover gets delayed (other than the obvious implications)? In other words, with all the antenna work being done on the ESB now, I am curious what, if anything, would happen as a result of an unanticipated delay of the switchover?



I think it would cause a botched up mess.


Also cost the stations more money.


This is about like being on a diving board at a swimming pool & your are running to to jump off the end & some one says stop.


It is too late to change the date now.


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15500377
> 
> 
> What do your analogs look like? Particularly channel 41 (Univision in New York), channels 10 and 17 or 23 from Albany? That can tell a lot about what your digital reception will be like.
> 
> - Trip



I don't get any UHV channels out of NYC, so no channel 41. What I get is the following:


2 - WCBS - Best Reception, clear to light snow.

4 - WNBC - Marginal Reception, light to moderate snow, occasionally heavy snow.

5 - WNYW - Good Reception, clear to moderate snow

7 - WABC - Marginal Reception (about like 4)

9 - WWOR - Good Reception, clear to moderate snow

11 - WPIX - Poor (worse than 4), often heavy snow

13 - WNET - Poorest reception, usually not watchable, but occasionally has only light snow.

23 - WXXA - Marginal, light to heavy snow

27 - WTBY-DT - Good Reception of digital signal

42 - W42AE - Good analog signal

48 - WRNN-DT - Good Reception of digital signal


----------



## SemiChemE

Here's a picture of my antenna:

http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2400.JPG 


Here's the second antenna that I'm not currently using:

http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2399.JPG 


Also, here's the TVfool.com output for my location:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d%3dab50ac4a57


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/15502081
> 
> 
> Here's a picture of my antenna:
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2400.JPG
> 
> 
> Here's the second antenna that I'm not currently using:
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2399.JPG
> 
> 
> Also, here's the TVfool.com output for my location:
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d%3dab50ac4a57



The 2nd antenna photo looks like a channel master FM antenna I once had.


the 1st antenna photo Looks like a broad band VHF but I see some loops that may be UHF. So it may ccover UHF as well.


Since you aready are receiving some UHF channels I would first


1- if your TV or tuner has a signal level display I would write down the signal level of the digital channels.


2-dissconect the 300 ohm wire & remove it from those sand off mounts. Twist the wire to have 3 twist per foot while you reinstall it in the stand off mount & reconnect it to the antenna.


3- check the digital signal levels & check & to see if it improved & also check your analog l & see if what you see on the screen is better.


----------



## Trip in VA

Your TVFool plot makes me think that your best bet is to try for Albany and not waste too much time on New York. Once the stations are on the Freedom Tower (extra height) you might try for it again, but if you're not getting 41 analog from New York... that station is basically the beacon I'd use to figure out what reception will be like.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip -


The Freedom Tower might not be ready for transmissions until 2012-2013, if then.


Also, the Richland SFN test has been very impressive and the Commission is very interested in this technology - specifically since there's a lot grumbling around about

the overestimation of digital signals' coverage in urban areas.


The CEO of ION, part of the test, estimated a tremendous savings if stations were to go SFN vs. Freedom Tower - and considering today's and probably tomorrow's economic problems and the way stations are hurting, there's a chance the Freedom Tower won't have many broadcast tenants.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15503301
> 
> 
> Trip -
> 
> 
> The Freedom Tower might not be ready for transmissions until 2012-2013, if then.
> 
> 
> Also, the Richland SFN test has been very impressive and the Commission is very interested in this technology - specifically since there's a lot grumbling around about
> 
> the overestimation of digital signals' coverage in urban areas.
> 
> 
> The CEO of ION, part of the test, estimated a tremendous savings if stations were to go SFN vs. Freedom Tower - and considering today's and probably tomorrow's economic problems and the way stations are hurting, there's a chance the Freedom Tower won't have many broadcast tenants.



Even with the current location the signals will be much stronger after the analog is shut down. Most of the analog was side mounts with the elments mounted on the side & much lower. But they were installed back before the broad band broadcast antennas were avaiable. Back then who ever got the top was the higest & had the strongest signal. The rest of the stations had to mount on the side lower down wiht weaker signals. Now die electric manufacters broad band antennas that can be stacked on top of each other like you would connect to 10 foot sections of pipe they can put both antennas on the top insead of one on top & one on the side.


So all of the UHF can share the top mounted antenna & the same for the VHF high band antennas.


I can not think of any place else that would be so well improved by the DTV as much as it in NYC @ ESB. Other places where there are many 2000 foot tower & high mountains there is is a lot of space for all the extra antennas, transmitters & etc. Thus extending the analog cut off is not as bad. I compare analog TV & DTV like AM radio & FM. With the great improvment of the new modulation why would you waste the electricity in the old modulation. Like I wonder why the FCC did not require all AM radio stations to remove the lower side band instead of having 2 sidebnads just like each other. They could be saving electricty & bandwidth. I do understand the is a TV forum & not a frequency forum, but with the shortage of frequency bandwidth you would think they would be trying to finish this DTV project thus vacating more frequencys. But that is why I am here & not in Washington D.C.


----------



## bugleg

I took my rebate card to RS today and got the digistream converter. So far, it's great. I get medium signal from an inside rabbit ear, but get every channel we watched before....


except WLIW and WNET, or favorite channels. We never got WLIW that well, but WNET was good, and now gone! I'm in central Queens. Anyone else having these troubles?


I live in a rowhouse wired with coax, so I've tried the antenna all over the house, to no avail. How do I get PBS back!!


----------



## Trip in VA

WNET is at very low power until the transition. They're notorious for signal issues. (12.4 kW versus the 160 kW or more everyone else is running)


I think the way to manually tune the Digital Stream box is to use the dot key (for specifying subchannels) and then put in the channel number you want. So put in .61 (since WNET is currently on channel 61) and try moving your antenna around, see if that works for you.


- Trip


----------



## bugleg

Thanks Trip.


On .61 I can get still frames. Oh well, hopefully it will get better after the switch.


----------



## Trip in VA

As for WLIW, try .22 as that's where WLIW would be. That one will see a significant power boost after the transition.


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bugleg* /forum/post/15517314
> 
> 
> Thanks Trip.
> 
> 
> On .61 I can get still frames. Oh well, hopefully it will get better after the switch.



Is there a UHF bow ring on your rabbit ears?


If not you may need to try a bow tie. It will snap on to one of your rabbit ears telescoping rod.


----------



## SemiChemE

Well, I flipped my antenna 180 degrees to point it North toward Albany, rather than south toward NYC. The good news is that I am able to receive 12-WNYT-DT (NBC) from Albany. The signal is marginal, but watchable (has a short audio or picture glitch about once per minute). My converter box shows the signal at about 40%. The bad news is that the NYC analog signals are now either very snowy or unwatchable. I do pick up a couple more Albany analog stations (6 and 10), but even these aren't as good as the NYC stations when the antenna points south.


I am now very suspicious that my antenna is not suitable for UHF, as I am still unable to receive any UHF stations from Albany. I suspect this is the real reason why I am unable to receive any NYC digital stations. So, if I want to upgrade my UHF capabilities am I better off buying a combo UHF/VHF antenna or can I just buy a UHF antenna and link it in with my existing VHF antenna? If the latter, how do I connect these?


Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/15520199
> 
> 
> Well, I flipped my antenna 180 degrees to point it North toward Albany, rather than south toward NYC. The good news is that I am able to receive 12-WNYT-DT (NBC) from Albany. The signal is marginal, but watchable (has a short audio or picture glitch about once per minute). My converter box shows the signal at about 40%. The bad news is that the NYC analog signals are now either very snowy or unwatchable. I do pick up a couple more Albany analog stations (6 and 10), but even these aren't as good as the NYC stations when the antenna points south.
> 
> 
> I am now very suspicious that my antenna is not suitable for UHF, as I am still unable to receive any UHF stations from Albany. I suspect this is the real reason why I am unable to receive any NYC digital stations. So, if I want to upgrade my UHF capabilities am I better off buying a combo UHF/VHF antenna or can I just buy a UHF antenna and link it in with my existing VHF antenna? If the latter, how do I connect these?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.




Which city do you want to get the stations from?


I have found some VHF high band UHF comb antennas on web. But I have not see where you can buy then in person. But that is all you really need for the NYC stations. You can use the VHF antenna but you will need the get a UHF antenna like this one

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103088 



& you will need to connect them together with a antenna coupler
http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master.../dp/B0013CLVIY 


This one will not llet the antennas interfere with one another. Some of the joiners will make the antennas intefere & loand one another.


You can get other UHF antennes like this one but are longer to get a pick up weaker signals.


Also are you going to keep the antenna in the attic or move it to the roof.


How high is your antenna when in the attic.?


Do you plan to boost the signals with a amp?


----------



## jpru34

I highly recommend the winegard HD 7694. I have been extremely impressed with it (and I keep it up in the attic). If you need something a little stronger, winegard has similar models with more elements. I got mine at Buy-dot-com for really cheap and free shipping.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15517265
> 
> 
> I think the way to manually tune the Digital Stream box is to use the dot key (for specifying subchannels) and then put in the channel number you want. So put in .61 (since WNET is currently on channel 61) and try moving your antenna around, see if that works for you.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That is one flaw with the Apex converter box I got my mother for Christmas. You have to do a scan and then if it misses channels and you put them on there real channel numbers it says invalid channels. It is a pain because you have to keep doing a rescan and it does not even remember the channels you did the last scan on. My TV I can input the real channel and then move the antenna to try to lock in a picture.


It is a good converter box and it pulls in the digital stations fine. Has much information about the signal strength but if I knew of that flaw I would have paid more and got the Zenith box which you can input the real channel number and try to lock in a signal.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15527508
> 
> 
> That is one flaw with the Apex converter box I got my mother for Christmas. You have to do a scan and then if it misses channels and you put them on there real channel numbers it says invalid channels. It is a pain because you have to keep doing a rescan and it does not even remember the channels you did the last scan on. My TV I can input the real channel and then move the antenna to try to lock in a picture.
> 
> 
> It is a good converter box and it pulls in the digital stations fine. Has much information about the signal strength but if I knew of that flaw I would have paid more and got the Zenith box which you can input the real channel number and try to lock in a signal.



I have that box and am fully aware. =/ It really sucks, because it has a better chip in it than even the Zenith has!


- Trip


----------



## SemiChemE

Does anyone have experience with the Antennas Direct C4 ClearStream4? I like it's small size, which means I could rotate it in the Attic to get both NYC and Albany stations. However, it's probably just on the borderline of what I need (65 mile range). I'd eventually like to mount it on the roof, but I probably won't get to that until the summer.


Would the C4 be adequate, or do I probably need either an 8-bay antenna, like the CM4228 or a Yagi/corner reflector like the CM4248 (or Antennas Direct 91XG)? I would be happy getting either the major NYC or the major Albany stations, both of which seem to be all clustered at a singe site, so a highly directional antenna seems like the way to go.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15503301
> 
> 
> Trip -
> 
> 
> The Freedom Tower might not be ready for transmissions until 2012-2013, if then.
> 
> 
> Also, the Richland SFN test has been very impressive and the Commission is very interested in this technology - specifically since there's a lot grumbling around about
> 
> the overestimation of digital signals' coverage in urban areas.
> 
> 
> The CEO of ION, part of the test, estimated a tremendous savings if stations were to go SFN vs. Freedom Tower - and considering today's and probably tomorrow's economic problems and the way stations are hurting, there's a chance the Freedom Tower won't have many broadcast tenants.





Don't even take bets they'll finish it by then. If any of you are old enough to remember it took FOREVER to make the World Trade Center


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/15531743
> 
> 
> Don't even take bets they'll finish it by then. If any of you are old enough to remember it took FOREVER to make the World Trade Center



I've mentioned this before, but I hope you'll agree it's worth repeating.


The Empire State Building's first steel was installed on March 17, 1930.


The building was open to accept tenants on May 1, 1931!


No computers, no helicopters, no modern day technology.


We've lost a lot along the way!!!!


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15531779
> 
> 
> I've mentioned this before, but I hope you'll agree it's worth repeating.
> 
> 
> The Empire State Building's first steel was installed on March 17, 1930.
> 
> 
> The building was open to accept tenants on May 1, 1931!
> 
> 
> No computers, no helicopters, no modern day technology.
> 
> 
> We've lost a lot along the way!!!!



Damn right. That's when people wanted to work. They couldn't resurface 1 mile of the FDR drive in 14 months. Now all you see are cones with 1 guy working and 9 others standing around and it's been 80 years since they first approved the 2nd avenue subway and all they have to show is a few miles of track and stations


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/15529709
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience with the Antennas Direct C4 ClearStream4? I like it's small size, which means I could rotate it in the Attic to get both NYC and Albany stations. However, it's probably just on the borderline of what I need (65 mile range). I'd eventually like to mount it on the roof, but I probably won't get to that until the summer.
> 
> 
> Would the C4 be adequate, or do I probably need either an 8-bay antenna, like the CM4228 or a Yagi/corner reflector like the CM4248 (or Antennas Direct 91XG)? I would be happy getting either the major NYC or the major Albany stations, both of which seem to be all clustered at a singe site, so a highly directional antenna seems like the way to go.




I would go with the Yagi/corner reflector like the CM4248. The 8 bay the elements are out of phase thus causing multipath distortion. This caused ghost on analog but it did not stop the tv frome demodulating the signal so you could still watch it. Unless the multipath distortion was so bad it made the screen roll & unwatchable. DTV is unforgiving & will make it go in & out. Also the Yagi/corner reflector should be better not picking up the stationd from the back & the side. So you may be able to buy 2 antennas & leave them pointed to both cities.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/15502081
> 
> 
> Here's a picture of my antenna:
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2400.JPG
> 
> 
> Here's the second antenna that I'm not currently using:
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~matt.stoker/100_2399.JPG
> 
> 
> Also, here's the TVfool.com output for my location:
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d%3dab50ac4a57



To add some encouragement, I am 60+ miles from the ESB.

I get WCBS, WNYW, WNBC, and 9 WWOR, WXTV, and something blocky on channel 25 WNYE. I also get WLIW.

I used to get WABC but it vanished on me a couple of months ago. I look forward to seeing it again next month.

I use a CM4248 yagi and a CM preamp. I don't remember the model, but it has two 300 ohm inputs and a 75 ohm output. I have the yagi in the "UHF IN" and a VHF combo on the "VHF IN" side (preamp discards the UHF from the combo antenna).

My TVfool output is:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d%3d5dd84400bd


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15531779
> 
> 
> I've mentioned this before, but I hope you'll agree it's worth repeating.
> 
> 
> The Empire State Building's first steel was installed on March 17, 1930.
> 
> 
> The building was open to accept tenants on May 1, 1931!
> 
> 
> No computers, no helicopters, no modern day technology.
> 
> 
> We've lost a lot along the way!!!!



I've got a better example: Yankee Stadium


First built in 1922 completed in time for the 1923 season and held 75,000.

Second remodeling took the better parts of 2 and half years from the end of 1973 to the very beginning of 1976 and seated 57,545.

The third building of it albeit a new entire stadium has taken more than 3 years, and as Keith Oblermann has stated they are leaving the old stadium up and intact at least for the beginning of 2009, just in case the weather turns worse for us here and they can't complete the new one by April 16th. Just ridiculous with all those tax payer dollars they can't get a non domed stadium done in less time than it took to get both incarnations of the prior two, plus it seats less than the prior two at under 55,000.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/15533708
> 
> 
> To add some encouragement, I am 60+ miles from the ESB.
> 
> I get WCBS, WNYW, WNBC, and 9 WWOR, WXTV, and something blocky on channel 25 WNYE. I also get WLIW.
> 
> I used to get WABC but it vanished on me a couple of months ago. I look forward to seeing it again next month.
> 
> I use a CM4248 yagi and a CM preamp. I don't remember the model, but it has two 300 ohm inputs and a 75 ohm output. I have the yagi in the "UHF IN" and a VHF combo on the "VHF IN" side (preamp discards the UHF from the combo antenna).
> 
> My TVfool output is:
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d%3d5dd84400bd




WOW you made a wise decision.


You are using the filters of the preamp to combine the UHF & VHF through the VHF & UHF ports on the preamp. That preamp will have a lower noise floor level than a single port VHF/UHF preamp. Finaly this preamp will prevent you from getting unwanted signals from the antenna that it was not intended to receive. Like UHF on the VHF antenna & vise-versa.


I guess you kept the VHF antenna you had before. That looked like a high gain, high quality & high price antenna.


I will be glad to hear how it does after 2-17-09 how well you receive the VHF high band when stations like WABC move DTV to VHF HB.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15534314
> 
> 
> WOW you made a wise decision.
> 
> 
> You are using the filters of the preamp to combine the UHF & VHF through the VHF & UHF ports on the preamp. That preamp will have a lower noise floor level than a single port VHF/UHF preamp. Finaly this preamp will prevent you from getting unwanted signals from the antenna that it was not intended to receive. Like UHF on the VHF antenna & vise-versa.
> 
> 
> I guess you kept the VHF antenna you had before. That looked like a high gain, high quality & high price antenna.
> 
> 
> I will be glad to hear how it does after 2-17-09 how well you receive the VHF high band when stations like WABC move DTV to VHF HB.



Actually, my combo antenna is a CM-3020, but I needed something more directional on UHF and added the CM4248 and used the pre-amp as the combiner totally by mistake as I meant to order the single 300ohm connection pre-amp.

In the end this has worked out pretty well for me, so I posted my info and hopefully it will help SemiChemE as our distances are very similar.


----------



## SubaruB4

Looks like all the major networks tonight at 7Pm broadcasted the switch to digital fake static thing again tonight.


the worst thing is while I have a digital tuner for my PC I don't have any for my non digital tv's and I lost my DTV card I sent away for.. so I went to get a 2nd one for the 2nd tv and thats when i found out they ran out of money..


Oh well.. I plan on getting rid of the Sony 27" and getting a Samsung 20" for the living room.


hmm must of been a FCC mandated warning tonight? First time I seen it on all the major networks.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15531779
> 
> 
> I've mentioned this before, but I hope you'll agree it's worth repeating.
> 
> 
> The Empire State Building's first steel was installed on March 17, 1930.
> 
> 
> The building was open to accept tenants on May 1, 1931!
> 
> 
> No computers, no helicopters, no modern day technology.
> 
> 
> We've lost a lot along the way!!!!



Yeah I saw that awhile ago that is very impressive given it's size... I got tired of all the fighting and bickering with the current freedom tower.. they would of been 3 years ahead if it were not for all the arguments


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/15533708
> 
> 
> To add some encouragement, I am 60+ miles from the ESB.
> 
> I get WCBS, WNYW, WNBC, and 9 WWOR, WXTV, and something blocky on channel 25 WNYE. I also get WLIW.
> 
> I used to get WABC but it vanished on me a couple of months ago. I look forward to seeing it again next month.
> 
> I use a CM4248 yagi and a CM preamp. I don't remember the model, but it has two 300 ohm inputs and a 75 ohm output. I have the yagi in the "UHF IN" and a VHF combo on the "VHF IN" side (preamp discards the UHF from the combo antenna).
> 
> My TVfool output is:
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d%3d5dd84400bd




The 300 ohm will give you less loss. On UHF you need to twist the wire 3 twist per food. That will keep any unwanted signals from being picked up by the 300 ohm wire. Since you have a 300 ohm input to the preamp, it should be a direct run from the antenna terminal to the peramp terminal; Thus you have no losses like you would if there was a 300 ohm to 75 ohm transformer & all the connections. So what you have ended up wiht is an ideal instalation.


----------



## jpru34

Any updates at their status? I still can't get a decent signal from them (and as stated before, I get over 90% signal from all the other channels so I know its not my antenna).


----------



## LenL

I'm 30 miles west of ESB in the hills of Morris Cty with an Outdoor antenna and I just checked my signal strength for 31.1 and it is at 86%.


----------



## pjcampo

Hello,


I just wanted to thank everyone for the help (and prayers I wouldn't kill myself on the roof!)


I ended up going for a Winegard HD-1080 - this was after I did a test with a very cheap rabbit ear antenna in my attic and picked up quite a few channels with OK strength. I mounted the HD-1080 on a 10 foot pole, and its mounted on my eave with as much pipe sticking up as I thought was safe. I re-used my old brackets with new stainless steel hardware. Ran RG-6 from balun on antenna straight to TV. I can actually cut probably another 10 feet out of the RG6 (it's maybe a 35 foot run now) when I get around to it. Total cost was $55 including antenna, new hardware, old RG6, old pipe, old brackets.


We are pointing pointing at roughly 170 degrees, dialed in with a compass.


I was able to avoid the roof and ladder entirely this time by removing both the top and bottom double hung windows on my eave and do everything from up there!


I went through the signal strength on the main broadcast networks digital channels and they range from 86% to 99%. We are getting all but 1 channel listed in AntennaWeb. We might pick that one up at Feb 19. It is PBS in Montclair NJ, which we might enjoy. We'll worry about that in February...


Thanks again!!!


----------



## SnellKrell

Wait until the transition, whenever that will take place, you may not need PBS out of Montclair.


It's sister station, WNJB licensed to New Brunswick - digital channel 8, by way of strange lobbying and the FCC's weird decisions, will be transmitting from the Conde Nast Building, 4 Times Square in Manhattan.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjcampo* /forum/post/15556264
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I just wanted to thank everyone for the help (and prayers I wouldn't kill myself on the roof!)
> 
> 
> I ended up going for a Winegard HD-1080 - this was after I did a test with a very cheap rabbit ear antenna in my attic and picked up quite a few channels with OK strength. I mounted the HD-1080 on a 10 foot pole, and its mounted on my eave with as much pipe sticking up as I thought was safe. I re-used my old brackets with new stainless steel hardware. Ran RG-6 from balun on antenna straight to TV. I can actually cut probably another 10 feet out of the RG6 (it's maybe a 35 foot run now) when I get around to it. Total cost was $55 including antenna, new hardware, old RG6, old pipe, old brackets.
> 
> 
> We are pointing pointing at roughly 170 degrees, dialed in with a compass.
> 
> 
> I was able to avoid the roof and ladder entirely this time by removing both the top and bottom double hung windows on my eave and do everything from up there!
> 
> 
> I went through the signal strength on the main broadcast networks digital channels and they range from 86% to 99%. We are getting all but 1 channel listed in AntennaWeb. We might pick that one up at Feb 19. It is PBS in Montclair NJ, which we might enjoy. We'll worry about that in February...
> 
> 
> Thanks again!!!



Tha is great. You really are better off with out a preamp if you can avoid it. When portable battry powered DTV TVs get to be around at a good price, If you buy one it will work even when the power is off when you conect it to this antenna.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15555621
> 
> 
> I'm 30 miles west of ESB in the hills of Morris Cty with an Outdoor antenna and I just checked my signal strength for 31.1 and it is at 86%.



As I live in Northern NJ, this indicates that ION is not currently broadcasting from ESB but rather from somewhere in NJ. Maybe when ION goes back to the ESB reception will improve.


----------



## LenL

According to Rabbit Ears it broadcasts from the ESB. Do you know for sure it moved? Even if it did, Bergen County would still be closer than I am...however it may be related to where your antenna is pointed..


----------



## Trip in VA

I think WPXN is supposed to be on Empire until the transition, at which point it will operate from New Jersey for a few weeks until they get their analog 31 transmitter converted into a digital transmitter. They haven't mentioned anything to the FCC about moving sooner, not that their 387s have been terribly detailed.


- Trip


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15563223
> 
> 
> According to Rabbit Ears it broadcasts from the ESB. Do you know for sure it moved? Even if it did, Bergen County would still be closer than I am...however it may be related to where your antenna is pointed..



yeh, I think it relates to my antenna orientation. If I adjust my antenna to face southern NJ (as opposed to ESB) than I can pick up ION much better - but I would rather just leave it aimed at ESB and deal with crappy reception of ION.


----------



## reddice

I can never get ION. Not even a little pixel no matter if they are in NJ or on the ESB.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/15565130
> 
> 
> yeh, I think it relates to my antenna orientation. If I adjust my antenna to face southern NJ (as opposed to ESB) than I can pick up ION much better - but I would rather just leave it aimed at ESB and deal with crappy reception of ION.



Strange.. I get ION aiming at ESB. Will check tonight, if they changed anything.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/15565652
> 
> 
> Strange.. I get ION aiming at ESB. Will check tonight, if they changed anything.



They may have a weak tube


----------



## kousikb

Watching octopussy now in ion. Seems they are doing all the Bond (Roger Moore) movie every Thu this month.


----------



## SubaruB4

bah I still can't find my DTV coupon so I'm just going to buy a box.. i'm curious on what I can and can't get with this apartment antenna.


----------



## SubaruB4

Anyone watching channel 9? I don't know if the station is having issues but law & order SVU is on and the channel breaks up like a digital signal and the screen blanks out but the sound will still play and then when the theme music plays sounds almost like the audio track is slagging.


----------



## SnellKrell

Same thing happened with the screen going to black during the 8 - 9 p.m. show.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15590355
> 
> 
> Same thing happened with the screen going to black during the 8 - 9 p.m. show.



same here


----------



## SubaruB4

Another question is WNYZ-LP still broadcasting? it's a dance radio station which was pretty interesting when i looked it up online I was thinking they must of been really close to me but really they are not at all.


it's on VHF ch 6 but I have not heard anything in weeks..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNYZ-LP


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15590463
> 
> 
> Another question is WNYZ-LP still broadcasting? it's a dance radio station which was pretty interesting when i looked it up online I was thinking they must of been really close to me but really they are not at all.
> 
> 
> it's on VHF ch 6 but I have not heard anything in weeks..
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNYZ-LP



It's still there, limited signal and all.


----------



## SubaruB4

hmm interesting how on days it comes in really clear without static and now I don't get anything at all but static lol


----------



## SubaruB4

well tomorrow is the big day and the big test going to try recording the actives in D.C. in HD.. so far I don't and have not been loosing my signal as bad as it was like a month ago.. only station I do is CBS.. but last time I checked CBS never had anything good on..


way short on hard drive space however.


----------



## raj2001

Speaking of WPXN, they have a serious audio problem. I am only getting the left channel.


----------



## SubaruB4

my Insignia box arrived today.. I get no channels with the apartment antenna and with my silver sensor i get 20 channels but what I have noticed take channel 2 WCBS during the day time I get all kinds of signal break up's but at night like right now my signal is 90% but during the day it's only 20-35%


----------



## POWERFUL

Your experiencing tropospheric conditions, that's normal. Your apartment antenna is probably VHF only thus you don't get any of the digital channels on it yet.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15636587
> 
> 
> my Insignia box arrived today.. I get no channels with the apartment antenna and with my silver sensor i get 20 channels but what I have noticed take channel 2 WCBS during the day time I get all kinds of signal break up's but at night like right now my signal is 90% but during the day it's only 20-35%



I do not think any one is yet transmitting digital from the VHF high band at the ESB yet. If they leave the cut date at 2-17-09, you will receive many more from the apartment antenna when they start using tyhe VHF high band for digital.


btw

Something I do not understand, why move the cut date? Just put more money avaliable for more DTV boxes & if necessary maybe UHF antennas, preamps & antenna wire.


----------



## SubaruB4

yeah I'm waiting for the date.. any clues as to what might happen? will they just flash cut with no warning or what?


----------



## G1Ravage

Question for you guys.


My grandmother lives on the second floor of a post-war, seven-story apartment building in North Flushing, Queens. She has a simple, rather old television, and has watched TV using the apartment building's rooftop antenna, which I guess has lines going through the building, because there's a wire coming out of the wall in the living room, which plugs into the "Antenna In" hole on the back of the TV.


A few weeks back, our building apparently did something to the antenna to receive digital signals, according to the notice we received. We did our part by buying my grandmother a digital converter box for her apartment. I went over there this evening to set it up. Took the Antenna cable out of the TV, and plugged it into the converter box. Then used the coaxial cable to connect the converter box to the TV. Powered it up, and scanned for channels.


The good news is that it works, and I get some channels with good pictures. But I'm not receiving anything decent on Channel 2 or 4. The picture is incredibly slow and choppy, and it's completely unwatchable. Channels 11 and 13 are also very bad. On the other hand, Channels 5, 7, 9, and some Spanish channels in the 50s or 60s come out excellent.


So what's up with CBS and NBC?


Our building's exercise room in the basement has an old TV with a digital converter box, and it receives a perfect signal on all channels. It also has channels we couldn't get in my grandmother's apartment.


I have no problem in my apartment, because I have cable.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G1Ravage* /forum/post/15643880
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that it works, and I get some channels with good pictures. But I'm not receiving anything decent on Channel 2 or 4. The picture is incredibly slow and choppy, and it's completely unwatchable. Channels 11 and 13 are also very bad. On the other hand, Channels 5, 7, 9, and some Spanish channels in the 50s or 60s come out excellent.
> 
> 
> So what's up with CBS and NBC?
> 
> 
> Our building's exercise room in the basement has an old TV with a digital converter box, and it receives a perfect signal on all channels. It also has channels we couldn't get in my grandmother's apartment.



It sounds like something is blocking the channels from going through. If there is a splitter somewhere between your grandma's TV and the antenna, and the splitter does not go up to 900-1000MHZ, then some channels will be blocked since the digital channels broadcast OTA in UHF (eg Ch2 is actually Ch 56 UHF which is around 750Mhz). Or it could be the cable going into your grandmas apt is inferior cheap RG58 or RG 59. It should be RG6.

Since she is on the 7th floor, and if she has a good line of sight to the Empire State Bldg, she might be better of buying a cheap $4 UHF bowtie antenna from Radio Shack and getting the channels from that, rather than depend on the rooftop antenna. If you have an old set of rabbit ears lying around, try those as a test.


You can explain the situation to the Bldg Mgmt and maybe they can look into it for you. How many units in this Bldg?


----------



## G1Ravage

She lives on the second floor. We have two buildings, each building has seven floors and around 66 apartments.


I'm wondering now if each building has its own rooftop antenna. The exercise room in the basement I mentioned earlier is in the other building, and it gets all the channels with perfect reception.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G1Ravage* /forum/post/15646693
> 
> 
> She lives on the second floor. We have two buildings, each building has seven floors and around 66 apartments.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering now if each building has its own rooftop antenna. The exercise room in the basement I mentioned earlier is in the other building, and it gets all the channels with perfect reception.



Check the rooftop if you can and see. For that many apts, I would not be surprised if there were more than 1 rooftop antenna. If indeed there is more than 1, perhaps the antenna your grandmas tv is on just needs to be adjusted. But you won't know for sure unless you start doing process of elimination. For example, does anyone else on your grandmas floor have a problem with OTA?


----------



## G1Ravage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/15646858
> 
> 
> Check the rooftop if you can and see. For that many apts, I would not be surprised if there were more than 1 rooftop antenna. If indeed there is more than 1, perhaps the antenna your grandmas tv is on just needs to be adjusted. But you won't know for sure unless you start doing process of elimination. For example, does anyone else on your grandmas floor have a problem with OTA?



My grandmother is probably one of the few in the building without cable.










I'm trying to see if any of her familiar neighbors are in similar boats.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G1Ravage* /forum/post/15651609
> 
> 
> My grandmother is probably one of the few in the building without cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to see if any of her familiar neighbors are in similar boats.



Even if she's on the 2nd floor, being in Flushing she should be able to get channels with her own indoor antenna.

I live 25 miles from ESB on Long Island and I have a cheap $4 bowtie antenna in the attic and I pull in all channels ( except Ch13, which is a known issue because of low power). I think you should try that and see how it works.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/15652682
> 
> 
> Even if she's on the 2nd floor, being in Flushing she should be able to get channels with her own indoor antenna.
> 
> I live 25 miles from ESB on Long Island and I have a cheap $4 bowtie antenna in the attic and I pull in all channels ( except Ch13, which is a known issue because of low power). I think you should try that and see how it works.



Actually reception when closer to the transmitters located in a big city may be more of a challenge due to multipath.


----------



## LenL

Today I tried to split my OTA signal as an experiement to see what would happen. I was concerned about how much signal would be lost when I added another TV to the signal from the antenna.


My current setup is an outdoor CM4228 antenna plus a CM7777 preamp. The preamp is in the basement not by the TV. I run about 75' of RG6 to the second floor TV from the preamp. That TV currently using OTA is in a bedroom and is a Sharp HD 32 1080p LCD.


The SHARP HD 46 1080i LCD TV on the first floor is connected to Cablevision. So I unhooked Cablevision and rerouted the outdoor antenna feed to it and took signal strength readings. It was now the only TV connected to the antenna. This TV is about 10' from the basement preamp.


Next I put a 2-way splitter in the basement and hooked up both TVs and the preamp.


My expectations were that I would have noticeable signal loss. I was way wrong. In fact just the opposite. NBC 4.1 was the same 82 reading but all the others went up 1 to 7 clicks. Fox 5.1 signal strength went from 81 to 85.


The splitter used was a Lewsonics Inc Vs2WDS 2-way digital plus splitter 5-1000 MHz. By the two coaxial male connectors it says -3.5dB by each one. I think that means expected signal loss?


I know this is rather long winded but I just wanted to present in non technical terms the impact of splitting OTA signal in my experience. I am really happy with my results.


Perhaps you engineer types can explain why I had no loss in signal strength and in fact signal improved. Could it be the splitter did something?


----------



## Trip in VA

Yuck.


The amp should be at the antenna. I bet your overall reception would improve if it was closer.


But is your meter measuring strength or signal quality? If you're getting overload or excessive multipath that splitting the signal is getting rid of, your signal quality will go up.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15656919
> 
> 
> Today I tried to split my OTA signal as an experiement to see what would happen. I was concerned about how much signal would be lost when I added another TV to the signal from the antenna.
> 
> 
> My current setup is an outdoor CM4228 antenna plus a CM7777 preamp. The preamp is in the basement not by the TV. I run about 75' of RG6 to the second floor TV from the preamp. That TV currently using OTA is in a bedroom and is a Sharp HD 32 1080p LCD.
> 
> 
> The SHARP HD 46 1080i LCD TV on the first floor is connected to Cablevision. So I unhooked Cablevision and rerouted the outdoor antenna feed to it and took signal strength readings. It was now the only TV connected to the antenna. This TV is about 10' from the basement preamp.
> 
> 
> Next I put a 2-way splitter in the basement and hooked up both TVs and the preamp.
> 
> 
> My expectations were that I would have noticeable signal loss. I was way wrong. In fact just the opposite. NBC 4.1 was the same 82 reading but all the others went up 1 to 7 clicks. Fox 5.1 signal strength went from 81 to 85.
> 
> 
> The splitter used was a Lewsonics Inc Vs2WDS 2-way digital plus splitter 5-1000 MHz. By the two coaxial male connectors it says -3.5dB by each one. I think that means expected signal loss?
> 
> 
> I know this is rather long winded but I just wanted to present in non technical terms the impact of splitting OTA signal in my experience. I am really happy with my results.
> 
> 
> Perhaps you engineer types can explain why I had no loss in signal strength and in fact signal improved. Could it be the splitter did something?



What happens if you remove the amp? Does signal decrease, improve or stay the same?


----------



## LenL

The CM 7777 Preamp comes in 2 parts. One part is up by the CM 4228 antenna and the actual amp is inside plugged in to an outlet in the basement.


I can't disconnect unless I go up to the antenna which I am not going to do as it is too high for me. I had a pro do the installation.


I can try splitting the signal 3 ways and see what happens. However isn't it strange that there is no signal loss and even improvement when you split the signal?


----------



## Trip in VA

Ah! So the amp is at the antenna and the power injector is in the basement. That's fine, shouldn't be harmful.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

In case any of you missed it the Senate passed a bill yesterday to delay the transition 4 months and the House is expected to pass it today!


For all of us ready and waiting for the transition this is bad news. For everyone else with their head in the sand this will simply delay the inevitable!


I was so wanting to see the transition and what happened to the digital signals being broadcast!


----------



## reddice

June 12th it will be delayed again because some people would not be ready. I am tired of hearing about the transition date on all the channels and now it is not going to happen when it suppose to happen. I was looking forward in February to get channels 2 and 13 but now it won't happen until June and then when June comes it won't happen until September and then when September comes it won't happen well you get the point.


----------



## NYC10033

Today 1/27/09 I emailed Channel 13, WNET, and asked whether the 4 month delay of the cutover will affect their plans to go full power.


This is the email I received from them.


>Thank you for writing to Thirteen/WNET.

>

>The Senate passed the bill but the extension hasn't officially been

>decided. *We are scheduled to go full strength with our digital signal on

>2/17/09.*

>

>Thank you for your interest in our programming.

>

>Regards,

>

>D. Johnson

>Thirteen/WNET

>Member & Viewer Relations

>212-560-2888


Currently I can BARELY receive 13. I find that I have to move my indoor antenna to a particular spot and move it a few inches left/right forward/backward to get a somewhat reliable signal - but there are dropouts especially when a plane flys by along the Hudson River. I was watching American Experience, about J. Robert Oppenheimer. The last 1/2 hour the picture was stuttering. What a distraction.


I hope after "Scotty" brings Thirteen up to _Full Power_, we'll all be happy.










I have a Zenith DTT901 and a Radio Shack gold colored double bowtie UHF indoor antenna I bought 20+ years ago to receive WHT - Wometco Home Theater.


I wish I could get WLIW - but that's ANOTHER problem.


WNJB BLASTS IN - the STRONGEST signal, which is good. WNJB is a second tier Thirteen. I like Thirteen better - movies.


Of course the creepy religious channels 29-1 thru 29-10 are rock solid.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/15668189
> 
> 
> >The Senate passed the bill but the extension hasn't officially been
> 
> >decided. *We are scheduled to go full strength with our digital signal on
> 
> >2/17/09.*



Unfortunately, if I'm interpreting that properly, it doesn't mean anything. It sounds to me like they're saying that the law hasn't changed, and until it does, they have to transition on 02/17/09. If it said something like "we'll be transitioning regardless of Congressional action," that would be something to be excited about.


Sorry.










- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15665786
> 
> 
> June 12th it will be delayed again because some people would not be ready. I am tired of hearing about the transition date on all the channels and now it is not going to happen when it suppose to happen. I was looking forward in February to get channels 2 and 13 but now it won't happen until June and then when June comes it won't happen until September and then when September comes it won't happen well you get the point.



I believe NY NC is most adversely affected by the digital conversion in the US. When we had the WTC this would not have been a problem. They had much more tower space on the flat top of the WTC. Therefore there was room for the analog & digital antennas. But after 9-11-01 all the stations crowding back on the ESB there was not the room to accomdate extra antennas with out adversely the range of the stations. I think that the stations do have the option to go ahead & shut off the analog if they want. Some stations else where have all ready have shut off the analog. If you could see what the cost of an electric bill is for running 2 UHF TV ttransmitters at full power you would know why. Seems like I saw some where, one full power UHF tv transmitter cost about $20000.00 a month.


I also read some where that the white house says there are some poor folks that do not have the money to buynew antennas. They said that some are watching snowy weak signals in fringe areas on VHF low band. Most of the VHF low band TV stations are now using UHF for their digital channels & they plan to stay on UHF. Thus they say to keep watching TV those folks must go aa& buy really big strong UHF antennas pre amps & coax. thus the US gov is going to also have money for a new UHF antenna system. But the white hosue is most like right about the poor folks needed a new antenna system to continue watching the sma TV channels. There may be a lot of old shacks with a bike rim with 300 ohm wire connected to the TV. Those folks may have had some TV signal but I am sure it was snowy & ghosty. But what the US gov will give them in place of that poor signal will be a perfect signal because of the way digital is verses watching a poor analog signal because that is just the way digital is, you either get & it is great, you do not get it or is it in & out.


----------



## johnosolis

Regarding the likely delay in the digital transition ...


The Senate has approved the bill delaying the mandatory transition. The House of Representatives has not yet voted on the bill. The President has already expressed his support and is sure to sign the bill if it comes to his desk.


The bill, however, simply delays the mandatory termination of analog TV broadcasts from February to June. It does not, however, prevent a broadcaster from sticking to the original February 17th schedule if they so desire. Broadcasters will not be REQUIRED to continue to transmit analog signals. The bill simply ALLOWS broadcasters to delay four months.


As for the impact on Cable TV subscribers - - nil. Cable TV providers have already promised to continue to provide analog versions of digital broadcasts for (I believe) three years after February 17th.


----------



## jpru34

House failed to get 2/3 to pass senate version of delay. So the delay might not happen afterall.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/15677638
> 
> 
> House failed to get 2/3 to pass senate version of delay. So the delay might not happen afterall.



hip hip hurrah!!


It goes to show you that Congress know what the impack on the TV stations will be & show they know what they are doing. The rest in DC do not know what they are doing.


----------



## OWENF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/15677638
> 
> 
> House failed to get 2/3 to pass senate version of delay. So the delay might not happen afterall.



This was an expedited vote that required 2/3 to pass.

The next vote will only require a majority.

It will be delayed again.

Regards

Owenf


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OWENF* /forum/post/15678012
> 
> 
> This was an expedited vote that required 2/3 to pass.
> 
> The next vote will only require a majority.
> 
> It will be delayed again.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Owenf



If you want them to stay with the 2-17-09 cut Then call your Congressman & tell them to vote against the delay.


----------



## kinemax

Assuming there will be no switch-over delay, when will WNET-HD be moving from 61 back to 13? On 2/17?


----------



## reddice

Then what was the point of this vote then. If it did not pass and now it can be voted again to be passed makes no sense. I don't want the DTV transition to be delayed. It has been delayed long enough. I want to be able to hopefully get channel 13 but with these stupid government rules delaying everything I really don't feel like waiting until June. Lets hope channel 13 does switch over on 2/17 regardless of the vote.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15685668
> 
> 
> Then what was the point of this vote then. If it did not pass and now it can be voted again to be passed makes no sense. I don't want the DTV transition to be delayed. It has been delayed long enough. I want to be able to hopefully get channel 13 but with these stupid government rules delaying everything I really don't feel like waiting until June. Lets hope channel 13 does switch over on 2/17 regardless of the vote.



No wonder DC can not get any thing done. They spend all their time wasted on stuff not needed like the delay. They need to flat leave the cut date alone & get on to more important stuff like off shore drilling & increasing US oil production.


The frequency band is needed. Let us get on with it.


----------



## reddice

The UHF channels I get now will probably be the same with reception but I really want to know how the high VHF channels are going to be coming in. I have a bad feeling they are going to come in worse because of LOS and mutipath. The only high VHF channel now is channel 8 and I can only peak it at about 10%. Did it move yet to the Conde Nas Building.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15688130
> 
> 
> Did it move yet to the Conde Nas Building.



It's supposed to move after the transition.


----------



## reddice

By the way I always hear about it all the time. What is a bow tie antenna?


----------



## SnellKrell

It's a UHF antenna that's shaped like a Bow Tie!


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15689028
> 
> 
> By the way I always hear about it all the time. What is a bow tie antenna?




here is one at Radio Shack
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062017 


They work great.


----------



## foxycat

I'm in Westchester, 15 miles from midtown. I think I'm the only one in the bldg still using the rooftop antenna. Reception's been atrocious since 9/11. I didn't know this forum existed till recently. Just plugged in my converter box, and the reception is amazingly clear. I get 2 and 4, 7; 5, 9, 11 don't interest me.


Except for ch 13, of course. I've been using a pricey saucer-shaped Radio Shack outdoor antenna *indoors* just for 13. I hope I can do away with it, and the coax I keep tripping on.


Anyone know if I will be able to watch 21 (WLIW) after T-Day (Transition Day)?


----------



## foxycat

Bowtie antenna--it has the old 2-prong leads, and snaps onto rabbit ears, which most of us don't have. Anything else you recommend?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxycat* /forum/post/15690397
> 
> 
> I'm in Westchester, 15 miles from midtown. I think I'm the only one in the bldg still using the rooftop antenna. Reception's been atrocious since 9/11. I didn't know this forum existed till recently. Just plugged in my converter box, and the reception is amazingly clear. I get 2 and 4, 7; 5, 9, 11 don't interest me.
> 
> 
> Except for ch 13, of course. I've been using a pricey saucer-shaped Radio Shack outdoor antenna *indoors* just for 13. I hope I can do away with it, and the coax I keep tripping on.
> 
> 
> Anyone know if I will be able to watch 21 (WLIW) after T-Day (Transition Day)?



There's no way to tell if you will be able to watch 21 after the transition (whenver that will be). The station has filed with the FCC for a hefty increase in power. Cannot tell if this has been approved and if so when it would be implemented.


Unfortunately, the station, now owned by 13, will continue to transmit from Long Island, not the Empire State Buidling, where it belongs.


These tough economic times will continue to have the watts coming from L.I.


One upbeat note, I've heard the station will resume HD broadcasting. For some strange reason (probably money) they had stopped their HD service.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxycat* /forum/post/15690437
> 
> 
> Bowtie antenna--it has the old 2-prong leads, and snaps onto rabbit ears, which most of us don't have. Anything else you recommend?



You don't need the rabbit ears, just hang the bowtie on something. I have mine in the attic stapled to the roof rafter. I'm 25 miles from ESB and pick up everything except 13.


----------



## reddice

I was watching a documentary about India on channel 50 and it was clear and in HD so at least one station in NJ that I get actually broadcasts in 1080i and not 480i SD crud. I get channel 50 like I get channel 4. Breaks up sometimes but briefly. Still better than with that UFO antenna. Could not even get channel 50 with it. It would also just break up for many seconds at a time especially channels 5 and 9.


Also why did RadioShack discontinue the good antenna that they had and replace with the cruddy UFO?


----------



## foxycat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/15694516
> 
> 
> You don't need the rabbit ears, just hang the bowtie on something. I have mine in the attic stapled to the roof rafter. I'm 25 miles from ESB and pick up everything except 13.



Might be different in my strip of 50 apartment buildings. What are you picking up besides ABC, NBC, CBS? I already have those through my converter box. If they don't have the bowtie anymore, I can make one.


Reddice-- By "UFO," do you mean the big plastic saucer-shaped antenna? I have that now indoors for channel 13. It's VHF.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxycat* /forum/post/15698001
> 
> 
> Might be different in my strip of 50 apartment buildings. What are you picking up besides ABC, NBC, CBS? I already have those through my converter box. If they don't have the bowtie anymore, I can make one.



As I said before, I pick up everything except 13 ( low power) and also ION. I get 2,4,5,7,9,11,21,25,47,68.

Radio Shack should still have the bowties, I just bought one not to long ago for $4. You also need a 300 ohm twin lead-75 ohm f-fitting transformer.


----------



## reddice

Yes that is the saucer shaped antenna. The problem I have with it is that multipath is worse with that antenna. Channels like 5 and 9 would come in strong and then just keep breaking up to zero bar signals. It is amplified and the Terk antenna I am using now which is not amplified gives me about the same signal strength and sometimes even better but it does not cause the picture to break up much. I switched the antenna with my mother and she is using it on her Apex DTV converter box.


----------



## reddice

Like I said I really want the transition to go through in February because right now I can barely get channel 2 and channel 13 I never got a little pixel of a picture or anything with any antenna I tried. Who knows when channel 13 moves to high VHF if I will be able to get it. Analog I can get channel 13 clear but it is a bit snowy. How does high VHF combat with Line of Sight and multipath?


I am asking anyone in any city who has a digital station that is on high VHF and they are not far from the broadcast towers if they are able to get reliable reception with a indoor antenna with the rabbit ears.


----------



## foxycat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15699147
> 
> 
> Yes that is the saucer shaped antenna. The problem I have with it is that multipath is worse with that antenna. Channels like 5 and 9 would come in strong and then just keep breaking up to zero bar signals. It is amplified and the Terk antenna I am using now which is not amplified gives me about the same signal strength and sometimes even better but it does not cause the picture to break up much. I switched the antenna with my mother and she is using it on her Apex DTV converter box.



Interesting. For the past few years I've been using the rooftop antenna for 2 through 11, and the saucer only for 13. I have a Terk on my stereo system for FM-radio. Isn't that similar to UHF? Wonder if I could get 21 if I use that. Hmmm...


----------



## POWERFUL

FM is VHF. Actually in some markets analog 6 is 88.1 on your FM dial. Some markets before he went to satellite radio would have Howard Stern on that station and you could record it with a VCR.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/15706119
> 
> 
> FM is VHF. Actually in some markets analog 6 is 88.1 on your FM dial.



Not quite. It's 87.75, but most radios that go that low will pick it up at 87.7


----------



## foxycat

Thanks. Tried my old Terk. The TV antenna is much better.


----------



## foxycat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/15698873
> 
> 
> As I said before, I pick up everything except 13 ( low power) and also ION. I get 2,4,5,7,9,11,21,25,47,68.
> 
> Radio Shack should still have the bowties, I just bought one not to long ago for $4. You also need a 300 ohm twin lead-75 ohm f-fitting transformer.



What's ION? And you get 21 and 25, which would be a plus for me. Worth the few bucks.


----------



## SnellKrell

ION is the old Paxson WPXN - analog 31; digital 30 until the transition, then will revert to 31.


----------



## jpru34

Speaking of ION, I am back to picking it up 100% strength like the good old days. I had had some trouble picking it up for the last 10-14 days. Maybe they are back to broadcasting from the ESB?


----------



## reddice

Still can't get a blimp off of ION. They can be next door to me and I still won't be able to get it. Like channel 13 it is a lost cause and I have given up trying to get it. The only way you can get a 100% signal strength is that you must be using a powerful roof antenna. I see you are using the Winegard HD 7694. If I had a roof antenna I would be able to get 31 and 13.


As for antenna's. I just use what works best. I don't listen to people on this forum or any other form saying that the antenna I am using is junk making me buy that cruddy UFO antenna. Then they will say this antenna is good and I will try it out and my reception would not be much better or worse. I am sticking with what I have and if the NYC stations switch to all digital on 2/17 then I will decide if I should get a amp for the HDTVi or not. If I will need it.


Also as for outdoor antennas they are out of the question. We had new windows put in last year and there is no way I can drill any holes to put any outdoor antenna. Also I should not need one on principle alone since I am only 4 miles from the ESB.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxycat* /forum/post/15711836
> 
> 
> What's ION? And you get 21 and 25, which would be a plus for me. Worth the few bucks.



Channel 21 I can't get which I understand because it is far away. Channel 25 I have no problems getting it. I can get it around the high 60's. Just it is a another digital channel that broadcasts in cruddy 480i non HD so I don't watch it. At least they don't stretch the channel no more like they use it. The PQ still looks terrible even for a 480i non HD channel though. Are they are still on Conde Nas Building, right?


----------



## SubaruB4

I cant get ION period..


Are the signals still coming from 4 times Square?


i hope to see some better signals.. funny I can get the NYeyeTv or whatever that channel is that shows the area NYC traffic.


also a curious question which I always wanted to know why is Fox 5 delayed over WNYW-DT? happens on cable too.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15670054
> 
> 
> I believe NY NC is most adversely affected by the digital conversion in the US. When we had the WTC this would not have been a problem. They had much more tower space on the flat top of the WTC. Therefore there was room for the analog & digital antennas. But after 9-11-01 all the stations crowding back on the ESB there was not the room to accommodate extra antennas with out adversely the range of the stations.



Having been in NYC yesterday and looking at the 4 times Sq building it seems like it has more space for antenna mounting then the ESB right? I wonder if the Bank of America tower hurts the signal any too.


----------



## SnellKrell

Once all the analog antennas are removed from the ESB mast, space problems will be eased tremendously.


While Conde Nast (4 Times Square) may have room - it's also not as high. I seem to remember that the top of its mast equates to the very bottom the ESB's.


----------



## SubaruB4

wow that many analog antenna's on the ESB?


And yes you are right about the Conde Nast building given it's low height lucky to get anything from it when they switch to it.


With only a few more days left for the switch over I hope to see a few more improvements.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15723569
> 
> 
> wow that many analog antenna's on the ESB?
> 
> 
> And yes you are right about the Conde Nast building given it's low height lucky to get anything from it when they switch to it.
> 
> 
> With only a few more days left for the switch over I hope to see a few more improvements.



The way the ESB was built there was only one tower not like the WTC. It had several. If you look at the photo & the text below "967 Facilities" at the web site

http://www.lnl.com/esbantennas.htm 


You see why some stations do better than others at the ESB. But 1967 was years before broad band antennas were designed & avaiable.



To delay the cut date is like cutting down a 80' pine tree. You have tied a cable to the top & then to the bumber of a truck. You have cut a notch in the tree to direct the fall. the truck is ready to pull the rope tight. You are now about cut it down. DC thinks they want you to wait. I think we need to go a head & get that tree on the ground & I feel the same about the analog cut date.


----------



## SnellKrell

1 World Trade Center (The North Tower) did have a number of masts, the main one,

360 feet, was re-built in 1999 to accomodate the new digital channels that had been assigned to New York DMA stations.


This main mast had antennas providing the signals for 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 31, 47 and four FM stations. 2 and 5 both had their digital signals emanating from ESB.


Your link is almost totally out of date. There are now broadband antennas that are fed by combiners. As I've mentioned before, once all of the old analog antennas are removed, there will no longer be the current crunch for space.


Additionally, with the Freedom Tower's availability still not a reality, just watch even the new combiners being moved further up the ESB mast to improve signals - the real estate will be available. Stations will continue to alter their equipment on the mast - if you look at FCC filings, you will note that there are plans for work to be done up until the fall of 2010.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15727121
> 
> 
> 1 World Trade Center (The North Tower) did have a number of masts, the main one,
> 
> 360 feet, was re-built in 1999 to accomodate the new digital channels that had been assigned to New York DMA stations.
> 
> 
> This main mast had antennas providing the signals for 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 31, 47 and four FM stations. 2 and 5 both had their digital signals emanating from ESB.
> 
> 
> Your link is almost totally out of date. There are now broadband antennas that are fed by combiners. As I've mentioned before, once all of the old analog antennas are removed, there will no longer be the current crunch for space.
> 
> 
> Additionally, with the Freedom Tower's availability still not a reality, just watch even the new combiners being moved further up the ESB mast to improve signals - the real estate will be available. Stations will continue to alter their equipment on the mast - if you look at FCC filings, you will note that there are plans for work to be done up until the fall of 2010.



I do understand that the broad band antennas are now in place at the ESB.

But, are the analog antennas you are saying are going to be remvoed;


Where are they mounted?


Are the analog low band antennas still like they are showing on the photo?


Also where are the broad band antennas mounted?


I thought the mast was still cluttered up like it is showing from the 1967 photo.


I assumed that when the stations left the ESB in the early 1970s they left the old antennas just like they were when they were still using it as the main site. I do understand that no one planned to end up back on the ESB on one mast. Then after 9-11-01 they were forced the use what was left


Is there a diagram of the ESB like the one at the site of 1967 except with the current mounting of the antennas?


----------



## SnellKrell

Many questions I can't answer. If you want to do some research yourself, go to

Trip in VA's incredibly informative Web site, check out the various RabbitEars lists.


Also, the FCC has all the antenna heights you want.


It's difficult to use a picture that is nearly 42 years old and think that it might resemble

what's up there today.


I know of no similar picture representing today's antenna installations.

Wish there were one.


I can tell you:


The UHF Combiner is at 1,302'



The VHF-Hi Combiner (once fired up) will be at 1,329"


After stations moved their transmission to World Trade Center the mast became shorter

because hardware was removed.


The plan is to do the same with unused equipment.


The mast is owned by the ESB and they rent transmitter space and real space for antennas. Once a station left the ESB for World Trade Center, they no longer paid rent and had to remove their belongings.


After the destruction of World Trade Center, there was a mad dash to find a place for transmission. The big problem was that stations now had to find a home for two stations - analogue and digital. Yes, there were space concerns and also electrical.


Stations used temporary transmission sites until new equipment was installed on the ESB.


Some locations were:


In New Jersey: First Mountain and the Armstrong Tower


In New York: Conde Nast Building (4 Times Square), Viacom Building, G.E. Building,

the Daily News/WNET Building.


The rest of the info is up to you.


----------



## StudioTech

Imagine how things would be now if that proposal for a 2000' broadcast tower in Bayonne had gone through.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/15729541
> 
> 
> Imagine how things would be now if that proposal for a 2000' broadcast tower in Bayonne had gone through.



I don't understand your point.


How would things be now?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15729712
> 
> 
> I don't understand your point.
> 
> 
> How would things be now?




More space available and a larger coverage area with less power needed? And they wouldn't have had to wait on the Freedom Tower since this would've been built quicker?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15727915
> 
> 
> Many questions I can't answer. If you want to do some research yourself, go to
> 
> Trip in VA's incredibly informative Web site, check out the various RabbitEars lists.
> 
> 
> Also, the FCC has all the antenna heights you want.
> 
> 
> It's difficult to use a picture that is nearly 42 years old and think that it might resemble
> 
> what's up there today.
> 
> 
> I know of no similar picture representing today's antenna installations.
> 
> Wish there were one.
> 
> 
> I can tell you:
> 
> 
> The UHF Combiner is at 1,302'
> 
> 
> 
> The VHF-Hi Combiner (once fired up) will be at 1,329"
> 
> 
> After stations moved their transmission to World Trade Center the mast became shorter
> 
> because hardware was removed.
> 
> 
> The plan is to do the same with unused equipment.
> 
> 
> The mast is owned by the ESB and they rent transmitter space and real space for antennas. Once a station left the ESB for World Trade Center, they no longer paid rent and had to remove their belongings.
> 
> 
> After the destruction of World Trade Center, there was a mad dash to find a place for transmission. The big problem was that stations now had to find a home for two stations - analogue and digital. Yes, there were space concerns and also electrical.
> 
> 
> Stations used temporary transmission sites until new equipment was installed on the ESB.
> 
> 
> Some locations were:
> 
> 
> In New Jersey: First Mountain and the Armstrong Tower
> 
> 
> In New York: Conde Nast Building (4 Times Square), Viacom Building, G.E. Building,
> 
> the Daily News/WNET Building.
> 
> 
> The rest of the info is up to you.



Maybe some one who works in a high building in view of the ESB wiht a digital camera will zoom in on the top of the ESB & take a digital photo for us. Then post it here where we can all see the current status of antennas on tower at the top of the ESB.


----------



## craig372

Assuming the House does not come to its senses and passes the digital transition delay bill today, does anyone know if any of the NYC stations will use their option to turn off analog early?


It would be nice if at least WNET 13 would start a full power digital broadcast on channel 13 on 2/17.


----------



## reddice

Our government sux. House voted to delay the transition. This really ticks me off. It makes no sense. Last week it was rejected and now they decide to try to pass another bill that makes no sense to be allowed and now this one gets passed. We were nagged for two years about the 17th and now it is not going to happen.


Looks like I won't be able to get channels 2 or 13 until now June and E* has no reason to ever carry 13 in HD.


----------



## jpru34

I also am disappointed in Congress' decision. There will still be people who won't be ready come June - that is human nature. This delay simply will waste tv stations' money by "forcing" them to broadcast in both digital and analog. And yes, I know that technically a station may stop broadcasting in analog before June but I don't think the major NYC stations would be able to do so unless they all agreed to do so at the same time. I don't think NYC stations will switch until June. If someone on this board knows otherwise please correct me.


----------



## SnellKrell

Complain to Echo!


DirecTV recently, and before any vote concerning the transition, which has absolutely nothing to do with what your carrier decides to provide you, has been providing its New York DMA with WNET-DT.


You are comparing the problems of apples with those of oranges!


One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.


----------



## reddice

I hate when people use the apples and oranges analogy just like when they use car analogy's. Apples and Oranges are similar. They are fruits.


----------



## SnellKrell

Then don't ask questions if you don't like the answers!


----------



## reddice

Does anyone know if the NYC stations will be switching on the 17th or later? According to this site it does not show any NYC station switching on the 17th. This delay should never happen. There are always going to be lazy people who are not ready. Now we have to watch stupid scrolls and promos for 4 more months saying June 12th until June comes and it is delayed again because they ran out of money or few people are still not ready.


----------



## SubaruB4

I hope they plan on switching anyways


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15738211
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the NYC stations will be switching on the 17th or later? According to this site it does not show any NYC station switching on the 17th. This delay should never happen. There are always going to be lazy people who are not ready. Now we have to watch stupid scrolls and promos for 4 more months saying June 12th until June comes and it is delayed again because they ran out of money or few people are still not ready.



they will most like do some more give away like I said in the last part of my post


#7991


Some who have a bike rim on a chimmy for an antenna living in an old shack i& card board houses getting a snowy ghosty signal. they will be given a box an a antenna to now get a perfect signal by means of the US gov $ give away.


Now I know why we have know we had the oil situation since 1973 & we have not made real major dent in the oil imports.


I hope they handle bringing digital to AM radio & lot better than this.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/15740395
> 
> 
> I hope they handle bringing digital to AM radio & lot better than this.



Hahaha, that's a good one. Have you seen (or rather, heard) the horrible disaster that is digital AM?


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15740459
> 
> 
> Hahaha, that's a good one. Have you seen (or rather, heard) the horrible disaster that is digital AM?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Oh yes.


I do understand it is off the topic but


I just am appalled the FCC would do such a botched up mess as that.


What I do not understand about that is the FCC approved using IBOC. IBOC spreads it's signal band into other stations frequency band. But yet AM is self have a upper side band & a lower side band. Why didn't they just remove the lower side band & put an digital signal like used for cell phone in place of the lower side band. Besides why would they use a modulation that has copy writes fees on it. I thought the FCC was to prevent interferance not aprove of it.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yeah, AM IBOC is a royal mess. Hopefully it'll be killed off sometime soon. I was staying at relatives in NJ and couldn't manage to keep the AM digitals locked on my Sony radio, and the towers were pretty close by.


CBS had the right idea, carrying their AMs on subchannels of the FMs. While I don't like the IBOC system on FM either, at least it doesn't interfere as badly and is immensely more usable.


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15741112
> 
> 
> Yeah, AM IBOC is a royal mess. Hopefully it'll be killed off sometime soon. I was staying at relatives in NJ and couldn't manage to keep the AM digitals locked on my Sony radio, and the towers were pretty close by.
> 
> 
> CBS had the right idea, carrying their AMs on subchannels of the FMs. While I don't like the IBOC system on FM either, at least it doesn't interfere as badly and is immensely more usable.
> 
> 
> - Trip



FM has a 200k wide channel spacing between stations. AM has only 10kc. FM should have enough band width to accomadate a digital signal just like they also multiplex stereo. So FM should be able to stay with the 200k band. AM could if they would remove the lower side band & use that as a digital signal thus staying in their assigned frequency band. Thus the exsisting AM radios would still receive the analog upperside band.


The FCC use to make modulations types backwards compatible.


Black & white TVs could watch color broadcast.

Color could watch black & white braodcast.

FM mon could receive FM stereo.

FM stereo would receive FM mono


I do remember the AM stereo. But the FCC was too late in approving the stereo modulation type. To start with the FCC let the market select it. All new radios were not required to have the AM stereo decoders. Thus the AM stereo thing kinda fell through.


So atleast the FCC did in 1962 require that all new TVs sold must have a UHF tuner.


They just waited a little late to require that all new TVs must have ATSC [digital] tuners.


But at least some one had the back bone to require analog TV a cut date. It could have been worse. They could have left it up to the market like they did the AM stereo & digital AM. Some times it is better when to just make the modulation type the law & cut off the old by a set date. Therefore not letting the market set it.


Really analog TV the video is AM modulation like the am radio. So with the better more efficient modulation available analog TV should have been taken off the air.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15738211
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the NYC stations will be switching on the 17th or later? According to this site it does not show any NYC station switching on the 17th. This delay should never happen. There are always going to be lazy people who are not ready. Now we have to watch stupid scrolls and promos for 4 more months saying June 12th until June comes and it is delayed again because they ran out of money or few people are still not ready.



W00t! WMBC looks like it is switching on 02/17!


They have been a major thorn in my side because their analog transmitter is not far from me so they overload my preamp. I'm glad at least they're going away so maybe my 2 x CM4228 stack with preamp will have some chance of picking up the weaker ones now.


----------



## tamahome02000

Bump.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15738211
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the NYC stations will be switching on the 17th or later? According to this site it does not show any NYC station switching on the 17th. This delay should never happen. There are always going to be lazy people who are not ready. Now we have to watch stupid scrolls and promos for 4 more months saying June 12th until June comes and it is delayed again because they ran out of money or few people are still not ready.


----------



## reddice

I wonder raj2001 I know when you live near a analog transmitter it can interfere with other TV and radio stations. If you live near a digital station does it do the same thing.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15747509
> 
> 
> I wonder raj2001 I know when you live near a analog transmitter it can interfere with other TV and radio stations. If you live near a digital station does it do the same thing.



It does. Overload is overload and causes desensing in your amplifier.


However, in my case WMBC's digital transmitter is further away and won't overload me as much.


----------



## reddice

I read a article that CBS, NBC, FOX and ABC owned stations will keep their analog on until June 12th. NBC 4 and FOX 5 it won't matter since they are broadcasting on 28 and 44. ABC will most likely stay on 45 until June 12th. I just hope that WNET 13 will move to 13 before June 12th. It also said that half or more PBS stations will be turning their analog off. I hope it is 13. I still won't be able to get CBS 2 because right now on 56 it is very weak. Maybe if WPIX 11 turns off their analog since they are owned by Tribune they will move CBS 2 to 33. I just want to see if I can get 13 and before June 12th.


This is going to create a big mess and I bet you by the end of May or June 1st they will complain again and will need more time because people are not ready and it will happen again be delayed.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/15744325
> 
> 
> W00t! WMBC looks like it is switching on 02/17!
> 
> 
> They have been a major thorn in my side because their analog transmitter is not far from me so they overload my preamp. I'm glad at least they're going away so maybe my 2 x CM4228 stack with preamp will have some chance of picking up the weaker ones now.




I have had the same problem with over load. I found what worked best for me.


I found I had a better signal on the screen of the analog TV with out the amp.


So what I ended up doing was I got a line/distribution amp. The are build with transister that can carry a higher current. The really are build the be connected to a TV cable to boost the signal for multiple TVs off one TV cable connection. But they have a higher noise level than the preamp that you mount at your antenna. So since antennas are 300 ohm researched the lowest attenuation 300 cable. I found that open wire 300 has almost no loss. But I could not find any. So I built my open wire 300 ohm & ran it down into the attic. I connected the open wire 300 ohm directly to a 300 to 75 connecter. The connecter had 2 screws for the 300 side & a 75 ohm male on the 75 side. I ran an extension cord from an outlet to the edge of the attic. I pluged the line/distribution amp in & connected the amp to the antenna & the TV. I did much better. Since the line/distribution amp are build to handle a + 3 db with up to 70 channels at that level; I knew it could handle 12 high level channels with out overloading the amp. That worked really well for me.

But I also knew I had to get the signal to the amp with as little loss as I could through the wire coming from the antenna.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15741112
> 
> 
> Yeah, AM IBOC is a royal mess. Hopefully it'll be killed off sometime soon. I was staying at relatives in NJ and couldn't manage to keep the AM digitals locked on my Sony radio, and the towers were pretty close by.



That's amazing. I live really far away from the AM stations I want to listen to (I'm also in NJ) and they're receivable. WCBS 880 and WABC770 don't have any problems here really. In fact when I use the Beverage pointed SE they come in like local stations.


Only one problem is that there tends to be fade at night.


----------



## dennispap

The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill

President Obama wants to hear what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/


----------



## Mr.H

WNET has a note on their web site that says they plan to continue to broadcast an analogue signal on channel 13 until June 12th. Their digital signal will continue to be on channel 61 at low power until then.


Sorry to pass on the bad news..


_Paul


----------



## reddice

That sux. So NYC is not tuning any analog off until June 12th. This stupid bill should have never been passed or even been allowed since last week it was defeated. Why was it allowed to be a bill again and passed this time makes no sense? Looks like I still won't get 13 and have to stick with SD crud on E* but the E* is another topic I am not going to get into. I still get 50 though which actually is the only NJ channel I can get that is actually in HD 1080i so it is not a complete waste. However 50 is weaker so it does break up more frequently but I can still get it.


----------



## reddice

Also I am wondering talking about SD channels OTA what is going to happen to channel 60 which is HSN. June 12th or whatever day they turn off the analog for full power stations even if it is a low power or transistor station where is it going to go? Anything past channel 51 has to be vacant.


----------



## Trip in VA

W60AI has a permit to go digital on channel 41.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

So that is why channel 41 RF channel is staying on channel 40.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15758372
> 
> 
> So that is why channel 41 RF channel is staying on channel 40.



WXTV is staying on 40 because they'd have to cut power due to interference concerns with WSAH-DT on 42 had they returned to 41. W60AI is just moving into the empty space.


Of course, WSAH has petitioned to move to channel 41 on the Empire State Building, so I doubt Ventana Television is in any hurry to build out channel 41 until action is taken on that petition.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

I read somewhere that digital stations can be next to each other without causing interference. If that is the case then why are stations worried about interference with each other.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15760191
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that digital stations can be next to each other without causing interference. If that is the case then why are stations worried about interference with each other.



It's not an arbitrary rule. The rule says that they can be next to each other if they're within 14 miles. There's then a gap of between 14 and 68 miles where stations can cause harmful interference to each other.


Those limits are not fixed, which is why the FCC requires interference analyses, but are a good general rule and is how the "available channel search" on my website functions.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

Yesterday I decided to experiment. I hooked up a $1 VHF only antenna and adjusted it and believe it I was able to get channel 4 at the high 60's to low 70's however except for channel 29 which was still strong all the other NYC channels were weaker. I wonder if it has to do with that WFME next too it since that station is further away causing interference. With the Terk and RadioShack antennas I can get channel 7 strong but channel 4 weaker in the high 50's to low 60's. When I moved the Terk HDTVi to a certain position and changed the antenna to sideways I was able to get channels 4 and 5 which I get strong anyway but channel 7, 9 and 11 was weaker.


----------



## rgrossman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15758157
> 
> 
> This stupid bill should have never been passed or even been allowed since last week it was defeated. Why was it allowed to be a bill again and passed this time makes no sense?



The first vote was under special rules that required a two-thirds majority, which it didn't get. The second time it was under regular rules where it only needed a simple majority.


----------



## POWERFUL

Our tax dollars at work.


----------



## SemiChemE

I live in Poughkeepsie, NY about 65 miles due north from the ESB. A few weeks ago I asked for recommendations about improving my reception of NYC OTA channels, particularly Digital Channels. I've made some upgrades, so I thought I would post my results.


I previously had a Large unidentified VHF antenna in my attic pointed toward the ESB. I could receive the VHF analog channels (2-WCBS,4-WNBC,5-WNYW,7-WABC,9-WWOR,11-WPIX,13-WNET). Picture quality varied from marginal (some snow) to poor (lots of snow), but was watchable. I was unable to pick up any of the Digital Signals from NYC, probably due to lack of a suitable UHF antenna, although I could receive 48-WTBY(48.1) and 27-WRNN(54.1), both of which have transmitters in nearby Beacon, NY.


Since that time, I added an attic-mounted Antennas Direct ClearStream4 UHF antenna. Unfortunately, with the new antenna pointed towards NYC, I was unable to find any digital signals. However, with the antenna pointed north towards Albany, I could get 26-WTEN (10.1) with about 60% signal. The picture and sound were perfect with no drop-outs or pixelation. I could also see 39-WRGB (6.1) with about 20-30% signal, which was essentially unwatchable due to frequent drop-outs and pixelation. I also received a marginal signal from analog 23-WXXA.


I subsequently added a Channel Master CM7777 pre-amp, which also acts as a combiner for the VHF antenna (pointed toward NYC) and the UHF antenna (pointed toward Albany). This improved 26-WTEN (10.1) to about 80% and made 39-WRGB(6.1) watchable (~60% signal, no drop-outs or pixelation). I was also able to receive 34-WMHT(17.1) at about 40% signal, which was mostly watchable with an occasional drop-out or pixelation, perhaps every 10-15 minutes or so.


In addition to the digital stations, I now get three Albany analog stations (17-WMHT, 23-WXXA, 45-WCWN). WXXA is very good, WMHT is marginal and WCWN is almost unwatchable.


The CM7777 pre-amp also significantly improved the analog VHF stations from NYC, which are now either clear or have light snow. In addition I am able to pick up 31-WPXN, 25-WNYE, and 41-WXTV off the back of the UHF antenna, although 31 and 25 have poor picture and 41 is pretty much unwatchable. I haven't yet gotten around to aiming the UHF antenna at NYC with the Pre-amp to see if I can pick up any digital signals, but based on TVfool.com, I'm not very optimistic.


The last thing I tried was aiming the VHF antenna toward Albany. I got a strong, but erratic signal (fluctuating between 80% and 0%) from 12-WNYT(13.1), which was essentially unwatchable. Could this be a multi-path or interference issue? I also got a weak signal (20-30%) from 7-WXXA(23.1), which was also unwatchable.


I've heard murmurings that high-band VHF is not meeting expectations for digital transmission due to interference issues. Could this be what I'm experiencing? Is it a sign of things to come, as stations drop down to the VHF band post transition?


For the time being, I'm content to leave my VHF antenna pointed at NYC and the UHF antenna pointed at Albany. In this configuration, I'm able to pull in 14 analog channels and 16 digital channels (including sub-channels). However, I'm concerned that I am currently unable to receive watchable digital signals from NBC, Fox, MyN and CW. I'm even more worried that I may lose ABC and CBS if these stations switch to VHF post-transition.


----------



## reddice

That is what I am worried about with interference issues with high VHF if it has them. 7, 11 and 13 are going to be on high VHF and right now I get 7 and 11 solid which are on UHF channels for now.


----------



## LenL

I have noticed that the major networks are playing games with their HD programming. Specifically if you look at the nightly news broadcasts from CBS, NBS or ABC you will see that the news anchors are not completely in focus so you can't see their faces in sharp detail. I know there was a concern awhile ago about digital/HD programming showing imperfections in all of these TV personality types but I had not realized that they are now taking steps to reduce the quality of the progamming we see. It is not an OTA thing as it is the same issue with cable. They may be even doing this with regular programming and the movies will be next!


We should all protest this scam being perpetrated on us! The sharper the TV picture the more they will do to protect the image of their stars by not allowing us to see their wrinkles, etc...


----------



## SnellKrell

Live with it - it's a fact of life and nothing is going to change it.


Before HD, CBS used special "features" on "60 Minutes" and when Dan Rather was the network's anchor.


Do you really want people to see Barbara Walters without some special "softening"?


I remember the first morning the "Today" show was in HD and poor Meridith didn't fare well and that's putting it mildly.


Television and movies have been doing this for years and will continue.


It's interesting that you brought this point up now. Watching the president's news conference and I was amazed at the quality of the HD - no filtering of him.


Sorry, but it's here to stay - and the older the celebrity, the more processing will done.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15781320
> 
> 
> Live with it - it's a fact of life and nothing is going to change it.
> 
> 
> Before HD, CBS used special "features" on "60 Minutes" and when Dan Rather was the network's anchor.
> 
> 
> Do you really want people to see Barbara Walters without some special "softening"?
> 
> 
> I remember the first morning the "Today" show was in HD and poor Meridith didn't fare well and that's putting it mildly.
> 
> 
> Television and movies have been doing this for years and will continue.
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you brought this point up now. Watching the president's news conference and I was amazed at the quality of the HD - no filtering of him.
> 
> 
> Sorry, but it's here to stay - and the older the celebrity, the more processing will done.




You may not want to see how bad their teeth are. Some were not bessed with pretty straight teeth & did not endure braces.


If they show the face in hd they will need to get younger pretter & more handsome folks or pay for a make up person to cover up those crows feet.


I just hope they will keep the shows in wide screen hd so when they show movies like the sound of music it will look like it did at the movie house.


----------



## foxycat

Here's an easy one: I have an analog TV and the converter box, and a combo DVD-VHS player. I play DVD's and tapes, but I don't tape from the TV. Do I have to run my converter box through the DVD-VHS player anyway?


----------



## O2C

It depends on how many inputs your TV has and the output of the converter box. If your DVD-VHS player is on "Video 1" and the converter box hooks up through "Antenna 1", you don't have to run it through the player at all.


You'd have to run it through only if you have an (extremely old) TV that lacks sufficient inputs to hook them up separately.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *O2C* /forum/post/15783792
> 
> 
> It depends on how many inputs your TV has and the output of the converter box. If your DVD-VHS player is on "Video 1" and the converter box hooks up through "Antenna 1", you don't have to run it through the player at all.
> 
> 
> You'd have to run it through only if you have an (extremely old) TV that lacks sufficient inputs to hook them up separately.



But, if you use Antenna 1 to watch the converter box on channel 3 (or 4), then you wouldn't hear broadcasts in stereo because the ch. 3/4 modulator inside converter boxes isn't BTSC (assuming stereo is important to you).


----------



## foxycat

You both have me confused, because I'm not really deeply into this stuff. I'm a computer geek. Here's what I have:


Analog TV with 2 white-yellow jacks and one antenna jack

Converter box with one set white-yellow-red jacks, one antenna jack

DVD-VHS with 2 sets red-yellow-white, a black-blue-red and a green-red-white.


I presume the red is for stereo, so my TV doesn't have a red. I've never used the red cable. May I presume you don't need the antenna cable just to play DVD's and VHS's?


----------



## raj2001

I think I may have found out why I'm not getting WNYW-DT. There's an analog station in Wilkes-Barre PA (WVIA) that may be interfering. TVFool maps show "pink" for my area (but not for my exact address) which means that I will be getting some of their signal here. For WNYW-DT they are about the same.


I'll be able to see after the analog shutoff though, whenever that happens. Hopefully I'll still be alive.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNYW-DT uses a directional antenna on the Empire State Building's mast.


The signal is weak towards south New Jersey to diminish interference with

WMCN, Atlantic City also transmitting on Channel 44.


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxycat* /forum/post/15787943
> 
> 
> You both have me confused, because I'm not really deeply into this stuff. I'm a computer geek. Here's what I have:
> 
> 
> Analog TV with 2 white-yellow jacks and one antenna jack
> 
> Converter box with one set white-yellow-red jacks, one antenna jack
> 
> DVD-VHS with 2 sets red-yellow-white, a black-blue-red and a green-red-white.
> 
> 
> I presume the red is for stereo, so my TV doesn't have a red. I've never used the red cable. May I presume you don't need the antenna cable just to play DVD's and VHS's?



I'm going to assume that for the DVD-VHS one set of red-yellow-white connections is the output and the other set is an input. In this case, you have basically three choices of how to configure your system:


1. Connect the the white-yellow output from the DVD-VHS to one of the white-yellow inputs on the TV (leave the red lead unconnected, you won't get stereo, but your TV doesn't support it anyway). Similarly, connect the white-yellow output from the converter box to the other white-yellow input on the TV. In this configuration, DVD-VHS will be one of the inputs (eg. INPUT 1) and digital TV will be the other input (eg. INPUT 2). You will be unable to record digital TV, but this appears to be what you want.


2. Connect the DVD-VHS as above. Connect the red-yellow-white jacks from the converter box to the red-yellow-white input jacks on the DVD-VHS. The advantages are that you can now record the Digital TV programs. The disadvantage is that you must have your DVD-VHS turned on to watch TV.


3. Connect the DVD-VHS as above. Connect the TV-out antenna jack from the converter box to the antenna-in connection on the TV. In this case you will need to tune your TV to ch3 or ch4 to get the digital TV. You will not be able to record digital TV and your signal will be slightly degraded relative to the options above. (obviously this would be the least desirable configuration).


There may be other ways to connect the box, but I believe the above are your best bets, at least until you get a better television.


----------



## foxycat

Thanks, Semi. Couldn't be clearer.










And my TV is just fine for my purposes, until it dies.


----------



## mw390

Don't know if this has been posted before but according to this pdf from the FCC most of the NYC stations ARE switching

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...A-09-221A5.pdf 



Hold the fort....I didnt look at those X columns. Why don't these guys just put the stations switching instead of saying all stations switching and then you have to look at the X's? Gov't geniuses


----------



## O2C

Maybe because it's a list of "All Full Power Television Stations by DMA"? It even says that it indicates those terminating analog service (presumably by the bolded red font).


----------



## jaypb

I record Conan and Leno every night off of my D* MPEG-4 local channel. Last night (or this AM) the 3:05 recording stopped after 1 minute...and last week the 12:30 episode of Conan (not sure what night---think the guide info said "Johnny Knoxville") did not record at all.


My question: Anyone know if the OTA feed was off air as well....or did my HR21 DVR just muck things up....which *occasionally happens*....


----------



## SubaruB4

I really do hope they change in NYC no point in holding it up when this has been talked about for YEARS on the expense of the broadcaster running two systems.


----------



## SnellKrell

It just isn't going to happen.


The networks are afraid of a new White House, a new FCC and a reconstituted Congress.


Sorry!


----------



## reddice

Don't get me started on the FCC. Those idiots are the ones who approved the Sirius XM merger now look how bad the company is now. Sirius slim repeative playlists ruined XM radio which I why I don't listen to it that much anymore. They might even go Bankrupt.


I am not happy that no NYC stations are going to be turning off their analog especially channels 7, 11 and 13. I will have to make do to channel 50 for some HD PBS shows.


----------



## icemannyr

I noticed the PQ on WNYW-DT's non HD programming is 100% better.

After years of bad video quality they have turned off the edge enhancement and text on screen seems to be deinterlacing correctly.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15797705
> 
> 
> Don't get me started on the FCC. Those idiots are the ones who approved the Sirius XM merger now look how bad the company is now. Sirius slim repeative playlists ruined XM radio which I why I don't listen to it that much anymore. They might even go Bankrupt.
> 
> 
> I am not happy that no NYC stations are going to be turning off their analog especially channels 7, 11 and 13. I will have to make do to channel 50 for some HD PBS shows.



The fact that it took two years for the merger is what hurt both companies.

I agree the FCC are idiots and so is the DOJ and the NAB.


----------



## SubaruB4

Don't get me started on the merger... it was only a matter of time sirus crappy stock drove down XM.


XM had better music which is why I went with them... I have not listened since this merger took place but from what it seems most are not happy.


----------



## POWERFUL

According to Cablevision's method of selling news (as well as other things) on dead trees (a.k.a. Newsday), all the locals are going analogless on Tuesday except WNET.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just shows how much the Dolans know!


It also could be a ploy concerning Cablevision's "scare tactics" commercials for jeople to sign up for cable service.


With the Dolans, big grains of salt are always recommended.


----------



## dochartung

The Dolans...







thank god Fios is now available in my area. It blows CV away!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/15797855
> 
> 
> I noticed the PQ on WNYW-DT's non HD programming is 100% better.
> 
> After years of bad video quality they have turned off the edge enhancement and text on screen seems to be deinterlacing correctly.



I agree. I notice on The Simpson's it is so much clear. Also they are showing Seinfeld in 16:9 even though the show originally aired on NBC in the 1990's when they did not have 16:9 TV's and I though it was a 4:3 show.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Seinfled" has recently had its episodes re-mastered.


Yes, the show was originally shot on 4:3 - the re-mastering to 16:9 has been expertly done by cropping and I believe some digital magic.


----------



## reddice

I just got a bowtie antenna that all of you were saying that was so great. Well it is the worst peace of crud I have ever tried. The only stations that I was able to get strong which I can get with any antenna was channels 29 and 47. Even channel 4 was worse. I was able to peak channel 7 in the mid 60's but that is only if I held the antenna up in the air. Plus the cord is way too short. I don't even think the cord would reach behind the TV is how short it is. I hooked back up my Terk HDTVi and I got the NYC stations stronger and more reliable.


As for that guy who said he lived 25 miles away from the ESB and he has that antenna in his attic and he can get all the NYC channels except channel 13 well sorry buddy I just don't believe a word you are saying. Not to be mean with anyone as I was not expecting it to work because I only wasted $4 on it. I don't care what anyone says about the Terk HDTVi antenna. They can say it is junk and these cheaper antennas is better but to me it is the best antenna I have ever tried. I am sticking with it even after the June 12th transition. Just really want to know how it pulls in high VHF. Sorry to go on and that is that.


----------



## SnellKrell

No good deed goes unpunished!


----------



## reddice

So true. As I said before I stick with what works. Remember another well know phrase "If it ain't broke don't fix it."


As for Seinfeld if it was remastered did they really just chop the top and bottom off. I watched a couple of Seinfeld episodes and they really look like they were filmed 16:9.


----------



## SubaruB4

Odd I don't get email updates anymore..


On the other thing with yesterday's wind how did your signals do? I had a little break up but nothing crazy.. but sometimes I will just get no signal at all for 5-1 and 5-2 but 99% of the time I have no issues.


----------



## POWERFUL

According to Today's Cablevision's dead trees news method, they corrected themselves and have stated the the DTV transition for the NYC locals will begin on June 12th.


----------



## reddice

I know it stinks. June 12th. I was really looking forward too this month to see how I would get 7, 11 and 13 on high VHF now I have to wait four more months. Lets hope when June rolls around Congress won't decide to pass another delay.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15814434
> 
> 
> "Seinfled" has recently had its episodes re-mastered.
> 
> 
> Yes, the show was originally shot on 4:3 - the re-mastering to 16:9 has been expertly done by cropping and I believe some digital magic.



What are the chances the orginal cameras where wide screen hd. Then 1990s they cropped the side to fit it on the SD NTSC analog tv that was in use then. Therefore today the go back & run the show from the orginal copy. I remember seeing Dallas. On the opening of the show on the screen would say " in mitsubishi hd where avaiable" when the title would come on before credits would come on.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15815992
> 
> 
> I just got a bowtie antenna that all of you were saying that was so great. Well it is the worst peace of crud I have ever tried. The only stations that I was able to get strong which I can get with any antenna was channels 29 and 47. Even channel 4 was worse. I was able to peak channel 7 in the mid 60's but that is only if I held the antenna up in the air. Plus the cord is way too short. I don't even think the cord would reach behind the TV is how short it is. I hooked back up my Terk HDTVi and I got the NYC stations stronger and more reliable.
> 
> 
> As for that guy who said he lived 25 miles away from the ESB and he has that antenna in his attic and he can get all the NYC channels except channel 13 well sorry buddy I just don't believe a word you are saying. Not to be mean with anyone as I was not expecting it to work because I only wasted $4 on it. I don't care what anyone says about the Terk HDTVi antenna. They can say it is junk and these cheaper antennas is better but to me it is the best antenna I have ever tried. I am sticking with it even after the June 12th transition. Just really want to know how it pulls in high VHF. Sorry to go on and that is that.



I used a 12 db amp to boost the signal since it is a low gain antenna. I connected the 300 ohm lead from the bow tie to a 300 to 75 slip on adapter. Then I slip the admaper onto the input of the amp. The lead from the bow tie was short. that cuased the amp to be near the bow tie. But I anted to boost the signal before any loss of the wire. I twisted the 300 ohm flat lead wiht about 7 twist at about 3 twist per foot. Then I got a longer 75 ohm cable & connected on end into the output of the amp. I connected the other end to the tv. This antenna will work but you will need to do some extra work, an amp & a 75 ohm cable. You would need to put the antenna on some thing to hold it in place. For example like putting a screw through the plastic in the middle into a block of wood since I assume you do not have rabbit ears to snap it onto. Then you tuen into one of the analog UHF sations & move it around until you have the best pitcher on the screen. Then try it on the digital sations & see what yo9u receive. You cna put it in a closet, under a bed or in the window.


I understand that you may not be the kind who likes to take on a project like this. If you are the kind that like to just plug it in & it works then this may now work well.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15818535
> 
> 
> I know it stinks. June 12th. I was really looking forward too this month to see how I would get 7, 11 and 13 on high VHF now I have to wait four more months. Lets hope when June rolls around Congress won't decide to pass another delay.




looong time ago when they finally decided to stick with Feb 17th as the date I joked with people saying I bet you they will delay it somehow again like all the other dates, and one person says nah I think this is the last time...


Heh guess that's not so


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15788650
> 
> 
> WNYW-DT uses a directional antenna on the Empire State Building's mast.
> 
> 
> The signal is weak towards south New Jersey to diminish interference with
> 
> WMCN, Atlantic City also transmitting on Channel 44.



Yeah yeah I know that.


I also don't live in south Jersey. I live in Northwest NJ.


----------



## SnellKrell

You're very welcome!


----------



## NYC10033

Think of the new June date as an "extension", like the one you get from the IRS if you file the proper form.


----------



## SubaruB4

How did everyone's signal do with the wind?


----------



## raj2001

No problems here. My antenna is securely fastened to an 86ft tower though. I have larger antennas on it which have seen two seasons of ice storms with no problems.


So I don't expect a little wind to be a problem.


----------



## POWERFUL

^ without a doubt, those Variety TV antenna installers know what they're doing.


----------



## raj2001

The Amazing Race 14 said "Presented in HD" but I only got SD.


Even all of the commercials were in SD (including the ones that were usually in HD). This was both OTA and on cable.


Think someone at WCBS screwed up bigtime? Or is TAR not in HD yet?


----------



## StudioTech

The listings saying it was in HD were a mistake.


----------



## LenL

StudiTech...Forget the listings...you missed Raj's point.


Raj I agree with you! Why would CBS say at the beginning of the show that it was presented in HD and then present it in SD. Could they be that dumb that they have no clue which shows are in HD? I think we know the answer when a show like Amzing Race which is a no brainer to be shown in HD has not been and other programs are in HD which should have been a much lower priority!


----------



## LenL

Mine was fine but I have to have the installer over today as my mom's is about to crash. One of the brackets has only one screw holding it and the antenna is listing forward and will come down soon if we get any wind over 20 miles per hour.


Reception was bad during the wind. Most stations from ESB were down to 60% and lower signal strength....from the usual 70-90%.


----------



## rperlberg

I was told that most of the digital stations were going to increase power on February 6th. Given that the 2/17 transition date has been delayed, did the power increase take place as planned, or has that been delayed as well?


My reception on 2-1 has been steadily improving in recent weeks (but still not what I would call "reliable"), but last week it took a turn for the worse.


----------



## SnellKrell

News to me.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/15836108
> 
> 
> I was told that most of the digital stations were going to increase power on February 6th. Given that the 2/17 transition date has been delayed, did the power increase take place as planned, or has that been delayed as well?
> 
> 
> My reception on 2-1 has been steadily improving in recent weeks (but still not what I would call "reliable"), but last week it took a turn for the worse.



Why would 2-1 increase power when they are flash cutting from 56 to 33 on 2/17 (or whenever)?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/15836108
> 
> 
> I was told that most of the digital stations were going to increase power on February 6th. Given that the 2/17 transition date has been delayed, did the power increase take place as planned, or has that been delayed as well?
> 
> 
> My reception on 2-1 has been steadily imp9, but last week it took a turn for the worse.



For me 2-1 has seen a very big improvement.. I get a 90-100% signal at any time of the day..


However one channel which is still not great is 5-1 some times of the day I get no signal at all as if they shut the digital feed off then I get a 80% signal for the rest of the day.. very confusing..


Also 4-4 which I think is universal sports sometimes it's good during the day and sometimes it breaks up so bad and always in the good parts I want to watch/hear about.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15832873
> 
> 
> StudiTech...Forget the listings...you missed Raj's point.
> 
> 
> Raj I agree with you! Why would CBS say at the beginning of the show that it was presented in HD and then present it in SD. Could they be that dumb that they have no clue which shows are in HD? I think we know the answer when a show like Amzing Race which is a no brainer to be shown in HD has not been and other programs are in HD which should have been a much lower priority!



I wasn't paying attention right at the beginning of the show (I was catching the beginning of the Simpsons in HD as I was recording it) so I missed the "presented in HD" line.


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe what you're experiencing is an anomaly of digital reception - it makes no sense.


As someone has already mentioned, there is no logic behind CBS investing additional money behind a frequency that was supposed to have been abandoned on 217 -

now 6/12. CBS will spending a wad of dough keeping their stations' analog signals on the air until June.


Just enjoy this gift from who knows where.


Concerning 4-4. That sub-channel's signal is based upon your reception of Channel 28.


What I have noticed is that this station, as an SD sub-channel, works with limited bits.

Much of the programming contains high-speed sports, a big user of the channel's bits.


Sports with a great deal of movement are hardly the program content for a sub-channel.


This is quite evident when you notice the difficulty in trying to read lower-thirds.


----------



## StudioTech

Since we're mentioning CBS, had anyone noticed that WCBS had never properly ID'd their digital signal? At one time, I used to see WCBS-TV New York/DT 56, which was wrong. Now, nothing. Just the same WCBS-TV New York, just like the analog signal. All the other stations seem to do it correctly.


----------



## SnellKrell

When you say "properly" ID's their signal, what do you mean?


Literarily, at this time, it is Channel 56, but 60+ years of marketing Channel 2 has great value. I'm sure that Channel 2 is what the station will continue to be called; no one, as of June, will refer to the station as Channel 33.


Additionally, WCBS-DT will continue to want the Channel 2 position on cable and satellite systems.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15838309
> 
> 
> I believe what you're experiencing is an anomaly of digital reception - it makes no sense.
> 
> 
> As someone has already mentioned, there is no logic behind CBS investing additional money behind a frequency that was supposed to have been abandoned on 217 -
> 
> now 6/12. CBS will spending a wad of dough keeping their stations' analog signals on the air until June.
> 
> 
> Just enjoy this gift from who knows where.
> 
> 
> Concerning 4-4. That sub-channel's signal is based upon your reception of Channel 28.
> 
> 
> What I have noticed is that this station, as an SD sub-channel, works with limited bits.
> 
> Much of the programming contains high-speed sports, a big user of the channel's bits.
> 
> 
> Sports with a great deal of movement are hardly the program content for a sub-channel.
> 
> 
> This is quite evident when you notice the difficulty in trying to read lower-thirds.



Thanks for the info I had no clue it was based off channel 28.. and you are right when the camera is not panning or a large amount of movement is not going on the signal is fine.. Like watching Lake placid the other day was annoying enough for me to just mute the channel and watch. The whole Channel got blocky so it's not just a lower thirds thing.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15838671
> 
> 
> When you say "properly" ID's their signal, what do you mean?
> 
> 
> Literarily, at this time, it is Channel 56, but 60+ years of marketing Channel 2 has great value. I'm sure that Channel 2 is what the station will continue to be called; no one, as of June, will refer to the station as Channel 33.
> 
> 
> Additionally, WCBS-DT will continue to want the Channel 2 position on cable and satellite systems.



I'm talking about the callsign, city of license ID that required by the FCC at least once an hour.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

How long do you think it will be before WMBC and WFME will go full power? I would like to see if I could get either these stations with an indoor antenna.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/15840561
> 
> 
> How long do you think it will be before WMBC and WFME will go full power? I would like to see if I could get either these stations with an indoor antenna.



They already are.


- Trip


----------



## jaypb

I had the pleasure of seeing a little 2 minute tech spot on the 5:30 news this AM where the WNBC female anchor (Erika?) kicked off a little techie vignette about the digital TV delay which was supposed to start today....and she alluded to the fact that the transition would start today on SOME networks/channels....yet not ONCE did she mention IF ANY NYC channels (or even our very own WNBC) would be kicking off early...or whether or not WNBC would be starting on 6/12....or sometime in between.


I found it ironically comical that that little piece...in my own mind...just added to the confusion/lack of clarity on the whole situation by leaving the local viewer (who is obviously going to be impacted) in the dark as to whether any of this BS would be directly affecting THEM right NOW!!!!


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/15841124
> 
> 
> I had the pleasure of seeing a little 2 minute tech spot on the 5:30 news this AM where the WNBC female anchor (Erika?) kicked off a little techie vignette about the digital TV delay which was supposed to start today....and she alluded to the fact that the transition would start today on SOME networks/channels....yet not ONCE did she mention IF ANY NYC channels (or even our very own WNBC) would be kicking off early...or whether or not WNBC would be starting on 6/12....or sometime in between.
> 
> 
> I found it ironically comical that that little piece...in my own mind...just added to the confusion/lack of clarity on the whole situation by leaving the local viewer (who is obviously going to be impacted) in the dark as to whether any of this BS would be directly affecting THEM right NOW!!!!




This is the price WNBC and the audience pays for the station's ongoing cut-backs and firings.


They spent so much money building the unneeded and idiotic "Content

Center" but forgot that content and capable people are king!


----------



## SubaruB4

Yeah I too was trying to search to see if any stations made the switch this morning.. but never found any info.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15842192
> 
> 
> Yeah I too was trying to search to see if any stations made the switch this morning.. but never found any info.



They didn't switch. Too many people w the rabbit ears. They can probably still afford running 2 transmitters but yeah, it's pretty pathetic.

Reporter: "Hello Engineering?"

Eng: "Yes"

R: Are we switching to digital on 2/17?

E: No

R: Thanks


How hard was that?

Not very for people with brains


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/15842422
> 
> 
> They didn't switch. Too many people w the rabbit ears. They can probably still afford running 2 transmitters but yeah, it's pretty pathetic.
> 
> Reporter: "Hello Engineering?"
> 
> Eng: "Yes"
> 
> R: Are we switching to digital on 2/17?
> 
> E: No
> 
> R: Thanks
> 
> 
> How hard was that?
> 
> Not very for people with brains




Well I knew the major networks were not going to switch but was curious about any low powered stations.


I wonder if they would be stupid enough to try to delay it again past it's current date set now..


----------



## SnellKrell

Low power stations don't have to switch to digital for years - they have been exempted.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15842192
> 
> 
> Yeah I too was trying to search to see if any stations made the switch this morning.. but never found any info.



I read the FCC report that WMBC will switch off their analog today (or already did it). Not sure whether they have done it or not. But their digital stays at the same channel, so no way to test whether my antenna can get a upper VHF digital or not.

Also about wind causing problem, I didn't see any difference. Although, I am seeing occasional glitches (say every 15 min) for WABC (7.1) now a days for the past 15-20 days. I don't see the same issue with CBS, NBC, FOX, my9 or PIX11. Not sure whether they made any changes on their antenna directional pattern.


----------



## SnellKrell

WMBC's digital transmission channel has always been and is Channel 18 -

which is not VHF.


It is clearly within the UHF band.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15842870
> 
> 
> WMBC's digital transmission channel has always been and is Channel 18 -
> 
> which is not VHF.
> 
> 
> It is clearly within the UHF band.



What I meant, is that if there were any station moving from UHF to upper-VHF today, my Eagle Aspen would have been better tested. But since WMBC stays at 18, I have no way to know whether my antenna would be good on June 12. I have a slight hope though. I get ABC, PIX11 analog (both of which are in upper VHF.. ok ABC is at 7) with lot of noise (almost unwatchable) but I do get the picture and the audio though using the same antenna. I never get CBS, NBC or FOX analog.


----------



## SnellKrell

You stand a good shot to receive 7, 11 and 13 when they become digital on 6/12.


But, you never know until the stations start transmitting.


Wait until the changeover before you do anything.


Even after the transition, there will be a lot of work going on at the ESB - removal of the analogue antennas along with stations probably moving to higher positions on the mast and/or increased power.


Wish you well.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/15840561
> 
> 
> How long do you think it will be before WMBC and WFME will go full power? I would like to see if I could get either these stations with an indoor antenna.



Although I can't get WMBC, WFME is so strong where I live I can probably get it strong with a peace of wire and a paper clip antenna. Even $1 VHF not UHF but VHF antenna can pick it up strong. This comes to my question I wonder because of that channel which is on 29 is the reason why I have trouble picking up channel 4 which is on 28? Could it be overloading it and making channel 28 worse?

on.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15843179
> 
> 
> You stand a good shot to receive 7, 11 and 13 when they become digital on 6/12.
> 
> 
> But, you never know until the stations start transmitting.
> 
> 
> Wait until the changeover before you do anything.
> 
> 
> Even after the transition, there will be a lot of work going on at the ESB - removal of the analogue antennas along with stations probably moving to higher positions on the mast and/or increased power.
> 
> 
> Wish you well.



I was hopping to be able to see how I would get 7, 11 and 13 on high VHF today but because of the stupid bill that was passed which I still don't understand how a bill could be rejected one week and then passed the next week I will now have to wait 4 more month to find out unless it gets delayed again which won't be a surprise if it is.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15844338
> 
> 
> Although I can't get WMBC, WFME is so strong where I live I can probably get it strong with a peace of wire and a paper clip antenna. Even $1 VHF not UHF but VHF antenna can pick it up strong.



I don't know exactly in Brooklyn you are, but it seems that maybe the 10± miles (and probably direction) distance between us, somewhere in between the signal just completely dies out. And according to the transmitter maps on the FCC website, I should be getting a good signal just being closer (same with WMBC).


----------



## SubaruB4

getting curious about this "WMBC" everyone is talking about they have a pretty nice line up of programming.. Not sure if it's been said before but how much power are they using to transmit? I know it's hardly a blip here in CT


----------



## SnellKrell

It looks like 1,000kW.


----------



## SubaruB4

Thanks, what is also puzzling is my Insignia NS-DXA1 when I did the auto scan I got the following channels added but they must be low powered or far away but sometimes they come in... tends to happen more when the higher channels


2-1

4-1

4-2

4-4

5-1

5-2

7-1

7-2

7-3

9-1

9-2

11-1

11-2

21-2

21-3

21-4

25-1

25-2

41-1

68-1


----------



## mw390

From Yahoo website....who went all digital
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/200902...igital_tv_list


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15842575
> 
> 
> Well I knew the major networks were not going to switch but was curious about any low powered stations.
> 
> 
> I wonder if they would be stupid enough to try to delay it again past it's current date set now..




Yeah, YOU knew that and so did I, but what about all the poor yutzes who haven't figured out they need a converter


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/15845348
> 
> 
> And according to the transmitter maps on the FCC website, I should be getting a good signal just being closer (same with WMBC).



Those FCC maps just like the ones on TV Fool are very inaccurate. For me it shows WFME as yellow saying I will have trouble getting it and might need a roof antenna but I get it the strongest of the stations that even the cheapest of indoor antennas have no problem getting. Then it shows me WCBS as green saying I will have no problems getting it with a indoor antenna yet I can barely pull in a signal, can only peak it at about 55% and when I do it is very unreliable. Breaks up a lot.


----------



## reddice

WMBC is the same distance as channel 50 but I can't even get a blimp of a picture for WMBC. I can only peak it at about 15%. Channel 50 I can get in the mid 60's.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15846289
> 
> 
> Those FCC maps just like the ones on TV Fool are very inaccurate. For me it shows WFME as yellow saying I will have trouble getting it and might need a roof antenna but I get it the strongest of the stations that even the cheapest of indoor antennas have no problem getting. Then it shows me WCBS as green saying I will have no problems getting it with a indoor antenna yet I can barely pull in a signal, can only peak it at about 55% and when I do it is very unreliable. Breaks up a lot.



Have you tried calling up the CBS, NBC engineers on your reception issues in BKLN? I think, they should be able to help you and can probably visit your area and try to understand the problem, considering so many people rely on indoor antenna in that area and they wouldn't like to see people getting frustrated over reception issues and dropping OTA altogether.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/15846185
> 
> 
> Yeah, YOU knew that and so did I, but what about all the poor yutzes who haven't figured out they need a converter



More the reason why this should of never of been delayed.. my take is when the signal goes out that will "force" them to get what they need...


Then you have freaks that say "it's the government and they want to spy on you" I know a few family members that think like this.


----------



## SnellKrell

Do you really think that stations are going to spend time and money before the June transition to try to "fix" reception problems?


In my opinion, it ain't gonna happen!


----------



## POWERFUL

So I guess those of us who would like to receive them need analog pass through on our converter box then, right? I got a pocket TV that I might do a project with.


----------



## raj2001

WMBC shut off its analog sometime during primetime. Around 7PM the analog was there, and when I rescanned after American Idol... poof... it was gone. Thank God, my preamp is probably breathing a sigh of relief now. When it gets warmer I'm going to climb the tower to put the second phased 4228 and a VHF antenna to get a good lock on the VHF stations as well as get a better lock on the UHF. I may get a 3rd antenna and put it on the rotatable mast to get philly stations or for general DXing.


My main reason for going OTA was to make sure I can get TV in an emergency as we see ice storms here and it's been known to take out cable.


There is a slight improvement in reception and I have a little better lock on WNYW-DT now because there's no WMBC to desense the preamp. Channel 64 (which just has a color bar test pattern, I think it is WASA) is now solid and doesn't co-channel with 63 anymore.


WFME 66 is also running crawls constantly saying that they're going to shut down the analog at 11:59 PM tonight.


I'd stay up but I have work tomorrow. I'll probably just TiVo the analog shutoff of WFME, but it's certain to be anticlimatic. It will probably just go dark without a fanfare...


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15845831
> 
> 
> getting curious about this "WMBC" everyone is talking about they have a pretty nice line up of programming..



I don't know about that, unless you're interested in Korean and other international programming. My wife does enjoy the "asian variety show" that airs on weekends and shows news about bollywood films.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/15848673
> 
> 
> I don't know about that, unless you're interested in Korean and other international programming. My wife does enjoy the "asian variety show" that airs on weekends and shows news about bollywood films.



I was interested in it for it's international programming and Korean Dramas. However 1000kW I doubt the signal does well in NYC.


Now all someone needs to do is figure out how to make a handheld DTV TV tuner with a built in screen.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15851033
> 
> 
> I was interested in it for it's international programming and Korean Dramas. However 1000kW I doubt the signal does well in NYC.



The DTV transmitter is actually closer to NYC now, can't remember where exactly (too lazy to pull up lat/long). The analog was in lake Hopatcong, about 15 miles from me.



> Quote:
> Now all someone needs to do is figure out how to make a handheld DTV TV tuner with a built in screen.



I've seen at least one on amazon.com.


----------



## reddice

Still can't get a blimp of a signal for WMBC.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/15853383
> 
> 
> Still can't get a blimp of a signal for WMBC.



I am currently in midtown manhattan and I can get them on an indoor antenna.


----------



## LenL

From what I am seing there is a big difference between Digital and Analog signal reception.


If you are or were getting analog like I was, you never had to worry about not getting it. It was a reliable signal. No pixilation or dropouts. Those are not analog signal issues. 30 miles from NY and the analog signal was very good.


Digital on the otherhand is a whole different ballgame. My experience is the reliability of the signal is all over the place. For example digital 11.1 at my location can be anywhere from the 50's to the 80's in signal strength. Just about all the stations I receive except for a very few can be anywhere from the 60's to the 80's. Such a wide descrepancy means I don't know one day to the next what I will get. I bet that is the same for many people. Wind, weather, whatever seems to impact digital.


When analog is cut off this will become even more apparent. That digital while offering better picture and sound IS NOT AS reliable or consistant a signal as analog.


Perhaps this will change when the cutover is made and all of the transmitter changes are made but my gut tells me what we are experiencing right now is what it will be with digital. I hope I am wrong.


There are options. I am seriously reconsidering getting rid of cable and instead changing my cable package to basic analog. For some of us it is a viable option at only about $12 a month with Cablevision. I will get just about everything coming in OTA but not digital. My thinking is I can then have the best of both worlds. I can watch OTA digital when the signal is good and when it is bad I can switch over to analog cable. PLus I can continue to record shows on the VCR and not worry about trying to record OTA digital signals that are good one day and bad the next. I have also been following the forum thread on the OTA DVR from Direct TV which appears to have lots of issues.


This is an option I am seriously considering if the concerns I have are not addressed in the June cutover. I think for a lot of us who are not close to NY it is a good one.


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15851033
> 
> 
> Now all someone needs to do is figure out how to make a handheld DTV TV tuner with a built in screen.



You mean like this?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2855063


----------



## SnellKrell

"When analog is cut off this will become even more apparent."


Why would digital's shortcomings become more apparent when analog is cut off? Sorry, I must be missing something.


If I were you, I wouldn't make any decisions at this time concerning which method to use for reception.


As I've discussed before, once the transition for the major stations in the New York market takes place in June, stations with antennas on the ESB will be removing unneeded analog hardware. This means that real estate on the mast will open up. Stations have already filed with the FCC both to move further up and stations have also filed for more power.


Speaking of power, many are beginning to discuss that the Commission botched the job in its allocation of digital stations power limits - specifically east of the Mississippi. The allocations are very low and the ability of those signals to reach viewers in urban areas are becoming a big concern. Sounds just like New York.


Hang in there, if you can!


----------



## LenL

I am hanging in. I was just pointing out my experience and frustration. I plan to downgrade my cable package soon to just basic analog which will save me some money. Then in June or July I will decide again whether to get rid of cable all together or whether I want the analog package as a backup.


My point about analog OTA was that at least for now people can still get it if their Digital OTA is bad. Come June that option is gone.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15854676
> 
> 
> I am hanging in. I was just pointing out my experience and frustration. I plan to downgrade my cable package soon to just basic analog which will save me some money. Then in June or July I will decide again whether to get rid of cable all together or whether I want the analog package as a backup.
> 
> 
> My point about analog OTA was that at least for now people can still get it if their Digital OTA is bad. Come June that option is gone.



Whatever I have read about the digital transition is that, major networks are not going to increase their transmission power, except for WNET(13.x). Their digital level will be same as now. yes you will see some differences for ABC, PIX11 too because they are moving to upper VHF, but thats an unknown territory (at least to my antenna). So don't expect much on June 12, if you are not reliably getting the digital signals today, unless the reorientation of the antenna at higher level help you out.

IMO, a better antenna (I am not suggesting outdoor) like CM4221 or aesthetically superior (smaller size) DB2/Eagle-Aspen (like mine) can solve lot of the issues you are facing on digital reception reliability. Now, I dropped cable soon after I bought my first HDTV in Mar 2007 and I am exclusively watching TV via OTA for the last 2 yrs, without any hiccups or reliability issue (leaving aside WNET) even in bad weather, gusty wind, fall time. Till Jul 2008 I had the Terk HDTVa, which was fine at 26 miles from ESB, although it was really sensitive and picky about the direction. Then I moved to another apartment, which was 33 miles from ESB. Still the Terk was fine, but I found only one sweet spot to get all the NYC channels and I had to run a 25 ft RG-6 to reach the TV. Now, one fine day it fell down and it soon stopped working. I started looking for another indoor antenna. Initially I built the 4-bay coat hanger antenna without the reflector and without all those fine workmanship. It was performing better than the Terk HDTVa in terms of signal strength, but the signals were unreliable (fluctuating from 40-80 like you see) because of severe multipath. I attributed it to the lack of reflector and the lack of workmanship for the DIY antenna. So after looking at EV's thread on indoor antenna, I ordered an Eagle Aspen for $24 shipped from amazon. This is far far cheaper than the $59 I paid for Terk HDTVa and even cheaper than the DIY antenna (if you consider all raw material cost and my time). The antenna works like wonder, signal reception is rock solid (even with a 25 ft RG-6 run without any pre-amp and split into two output), looks better in my living room. It is by far one of my best purchase in electronics. And yes, I am not watching the TV via any DTV convereter box (which has the latest 6th gen tuner), its thru a Olevia Tv (which supposedly has a 4th gen tuner). I can really vouch for this antenna and with amazon's return policy, I suggest you try this route, before trying out other means. It's really an well made antenna and I haven't seen much negative reviews for this antenna like Terk HDTVa (which can be a hit or miss).

Also, to @reddice, sometime back you mentioned that you tried the radioshack bow-tie anetnna and it sucked. Well, I would like to stress the importance of the reflector part of the bow-tie style antenna. Without the reflector, you are basically at the mercy of the multipath and pray that it will work for you. Same holds true for any UHF loop style antenna. I have learnt that lesson when I tried my hand in building the 4-bay bow tie antenna. But upon reading more in "Buidling your own UHF antenna" thread, I realized that the reflector and proper angle/distance from the bow-tie elements helps a lot in rejecting the multipath and get a reliable and solid signal. I consider $24 (you may find it cheaper in buy.com, sometimeback it was selling for $15 + shipping) a small investment to completely get rid of cable if you are only interested in network TV and full blown HD.


Add: Would like to add that, you can probably return the antenna to amazon for free refund, if it doesn't work for you, so its a realitvely less risky proposition.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/15854403
> 
> 
> You mean like this?
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2855063



yeah.. wow did not know those existed (with the ATSC tuner built in)


----------



## SubaruB4

I can't find the post here talking about WABC-DT but is anyone else getting sound drop-outs every few seconds? my signal goes from 75-90% but it's breaking up the sound about every 5-9 seconds without the picture breaking up.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15855029
> 
> 
> I can't find the post here talking about WABC-DT but is anyone else getting sound drop-outs every few seconds? my signal goes from 75-90% but it's breaking up the sound about every 5-9 seconds without the picture breaking up.



I only reported about the glitches in WABC, although I think it's not every 7-9 sec. Anyway, today is "Lost" night, so I will report back whether I am seeing it or not.


----------



## SnellKrell

Coming in loud and clear - no problems!


----------



## SubaruB4

hmm.. well I hope when the digital antenna is moved up higher that this wont be an issue anymore.


Also WNYE that's not broadcasting from the ESB is it?


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15854978
> 
> 
> yeah.. wow did not know those existed (with the ATSC tuner built in)



Yeah they do, Also RCA/Winegard/Venturer DTV tuner model#: STB7766G1 has an optional accessory power pack of 6 D cells and it also has analog pass through. Hook that up to an old portable TV with a AV input jack and connect an antenna and your go to go. Who wants to bet that the portable TV's batteries die before the batteries in the accessory pack do?


----------



## reddice

I agree with you that analog is much more reliable than digital. With a analog signal you can put the antenna almost anywhere and get a picture but with digital you got to have it in the just the right spot. Move it a bit and it goes from a picture to a blank screen.


----------



## SnellKrell

No way would I trade the incredible digital picture that I get with a my small Silver Sensor indoor antenna.


I did a comparison trying to look at analogue O-T-A ,and as they say in the neighborhood - fuhgettaboutit! Pictures unstable, colors off, snow - you name the anomaly and I had it.


Yes, digital can be frustrating - but once I found the "sweet spot" I'm pretty happy.


Just hope the changes in June will only help and in no way hinder the great pictures I'm enjoying.


By the way, I have no line-of-sight to the ESB and am surrounded by many taller buildings.


I'm sure that there are strong signals bouncing all over the place, but the major O-T-A stations I watch most often, 2 through 13, all come in fine.


I'm fortunate.


----------



## reddice

I am just saying that analog signal is more reliable put the PQ stinks. Digital does have much better PQ.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/15855572
> 
> 
> Also WNYE that's not broadcasting from the ESB is it?



I thought they were for some reason.


----------



## MisterEd

I am in NNJ (07036) about 15mi from ESB (per antennaweb.org) and in the "yellow" antenna zone. Currently I'm using a 25year old uhf/vhf antenna on the roof of my house







for my HD reception - I have DirecTV but use OTA for local networks. I notice 4-1 signal is varying in sig (60%-80%) but CBS/ABC/FOX are all solid 90% (I'm using the signal meter on my DirecTV receiver as a reference).


I'd like to replace this antenna for my digital HD channels but looking at all the charts I see ABC is going from UHF to VHF (the only one of the 4 majors).


What antenna is recommended that will handle both VHF and the single &^&^&@@ ABC channel? I have a DB4 I bought a long time ago but never installed but that is UHF only. Since I am so close to NYC will the DB4 be able to pickup VHF-7-1 in June well enough or do I need a dualband antenna? If so, any suggestions? I do have an attic I could install in rather then roof-top.


----------



## jpru34

I too live in Northern NJ and I highly recommend the Winegard HD 7694P. I have it installed in my attic and receive all the digital stations perfectly (with ION 31.1 being the only somewhat unreliable signal).


Good Luck


----------



## R.F. Burns

 http://www.iptv.org/video/detail.cfm...tal_television 


Not NY but an online video about the digital TV conversion.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MisterEd* /forum/post/15868977
> 
> 
> I am in NNJ (07036) about 15mi from ESB (per antennaweb.org) and in the "yellow" antenna zone. Currently I'm using a 25year old uhf/vhf antenna on the roof of my house
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for my HD reception - I have DirecTV but use OTA for local networks. I notice 4-1 signal is varying in sig (60%-80%) but CBS/ABC/FOX are all solid 90% (I'm using the signal meter on my DirecTV receiver as a reference).
> 
> 
> I'd like to replace this antenna for my digital HD channels but looking at all the charts I see ABC is going from UHF to VHF (the only one of the 4 majors).
> 
> 
> What antenna is recommended that will handle both VHF and the single &^&^&@@ ABC channel? I have a DB4 I bought a long time ago but never installed but that is UHF only. Since I am so close to NYC will the DB4 be able to pickup VHF-7-1 in June well enough or do I need a dualband antenna? If so, any suggestions? I do have an attic I could install in rather then roof-top.



My advice to you would be an old saying: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unless WNBC-DT is actually dropping out on you, there's not much point in wasting the money and effort on new equipment.


And don't forget that 11 and 13 will be on upper-VHF as well, along with 58 (but that's mirrored on 50).


Given that you already have the DB4, what you could do is wait for the transition to occur and give it a try and see. If your existing antenna works well for you on VHF, you could get a UHF/VHF joiner and use the DB4 for UHF and the old antenna for VHF.


- Trip


----------



## kinemax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MisterEd* /forum/post/15868977
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> What antenna is recommended that will handle both VHF and the single &^&^&@@ ABC channel? I have a DB4 I bought a long time ago but never installed but that is UHF only. Since I am so close to NYC will the DB4 be able to pickup VHF-7-1 in June well enough or do I need a dualband antenna? If so, any suggestions? I do have an attic I could install in rather then roof-top.



FWIW, I am in Central NJ 50+ miles from NYC and with a DB4 in my attic (boosted by a Channel Master CM7777 for a 25' cable run) am able to receive very good quality video for VHF 7. I would suggest that you put up the DB4 antenna in your attic and see how good a reception you get on this channel, before trying anything else.


----------



## MisterEd

I put the DB4 in the attic and (vs my 30 year old broken down old existing roof antenna) and it works fine on all channels EXCEPT DIGITAL 4. Must be a multipath issue caused by the foil under the vinyl siding of the house because 4.1 and subs are varying widely in signal strength on the DirecTV signal meter. All the other digital channels are solid 90-100% but 4digital is jumping between 30% and 90%. When I go back to the dilapidated roof antenna (about 15' higher then the DB4 in the attic) everything is solid 100%. Oh well .... guess I'll stick with the old relic on the roof or maybe I'll just mount the DB4 in it's place in the spring since I have it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinemax* /forum/post/15874400
> 
> 
> FWIW, I am in Central NJ 50+ miles from NYC and with a DB4 in my attic (boosted by a Channel Master CM7777 for a 25' cable run) am able to receive very good quality video for VHF 7. I would suggest that you put up the DB4 antenna in your attic and see how good a reception you get on this channel, before trying anything else.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/15848648
> 
> 
> I'll probably just TiVo the analog shutoff of WFME, but it's certain to be anticlimatic. It will probably just go dark without a fanfare...



Did analog for WFME end as planned? I would like to confirm before I take it off the analog list.


Thanks,


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MisterEd* /forum/post/15877086
> 
> 
> I put the DB4 in the attic and (vs my 30 year old broken down old existing roof antenna) and it works fine on all channels EXCEPT DIGITAL 4. Must be a multipath issue caused by the foil under the vinyl siding of the house because 4.1 and subs are varying widely in signal strength on the DirecTV signal meter. All the other digital channels are solid 90-100% but 4digital is jumping between 30% and 90%. When I go back to the dilapidated roof antenna (about 15' higher then the DB4 in the attic) everything is solid 100%. Oh well .... guess I'll stick with the old relic on the roof or maybe I'll just mount the DB4 in it's place in the spring since I have it.




Before you take down your old antenna can you take a photo of it & post here so we can see it. I think you may have a better antenna than you think it is.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/15857055
> 
> 
> I thought they were for some reason.



hmm must be lower on the ESB then. I really can't find much info on it.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/15856045
> 
> 
> No way would I trade the incredible digital picture that I get with a my small Silver Sensor indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> I did a comparison trying to look at analogue O-T-A ,and as they say in the neighborhood - fuhgettaboutit! Pictures unstable, colors off, snow - you name the anomaly and I had it.
> 
> 
> Yes, digital can be frustrating - but once I found the "sweet spot" I'm pretty happy.
> 
> 
> Just hope the changes in June will only help and in no way hinder the great pictures I'm enjoying.
> 
> 
> By the way, I have no line-of-sight to the ESB and am surrounded by many taller buildings.
> 
> 
> I'm sure that there are strong signals bouncing all over the place, but the major O-T-A stations I watch most often, 2 through 13, all come in fine.
> 
> 
> I'm fortunate.



You're fortunate in that you chose THE MOST DIRECTIONAL small indoor antenna available. Others who are struggling with less directional indoor antennas in areas that are subject to multipath, like yours, will only continue to be frustrated.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/15877697
> 
> 
> Did analog for WFME end as planned? I would like to confirm before I take it off the analog list.
> 
> 
> Thanks,



Yes they went QRT on 02/17 at midnight as planned. 66 is all snow.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/15884640
> 
> 
> Yes they went QRT on 02/17 at midnight as planned. 66 is all snow.



Thank you for the update. The FCC had them on the nightlight list, but it appears they didn't.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i recently built a 3-Loop antenna using a mix of wire 12 and 14 wires (i'll make them all 14 later). the antenna works ok when leaning against my apartment window (near 200th Street). i can easily get:


2.1

4.1

5.1

5.2 (My9 on my Olevia!!!)

7.1

11.1


if i move the antenna around i can also get 25.1, 31.1 and 41.1 but i dont need them. on the other hand, i do miss the PBS stations (Thirteen and WLIW21). :-(


first question: i've read that stations will transmit with stronger power once their analog channels are shut down. is it true to every big station (not talking about WMBC and other small ones)??? i mean, when a given station shuts down their analog transmitters, do they always boost their digital one? if all digital signals do get a boost in June, i might not need to buy an antenna. i'd like to receive all of them but the PBSs are a priority to me.


second question: if the signals do not get a boost, which antenna would fare better in my location: HDTVa or DB2? from what i understand, some stations will utilize the VHF-Hi band after the transition.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/15883071
> 
> 
> You're fortunate in that you chose THE MOST DIRECTIONAL small indoor antenna available. Others who are struggling with less directional indoor antennas in areas that are subject to multipath, like yours, will only continue to be frustrated.



I was going to try that antenna. The Silver Senor and compare it with the Terk HDTVi but now I am just going to stick with what I have and find out in June if things improve or not. Like I said many times the Terk HDTVi works pretty good around my area. The only main local channels I have trouble with is channel 2 which is very weak to no picture and channel 13 which no antenna can pick it up. Also channels 31 and 41 I can't get a blimp of a picture either.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/15884640
> 
> 
> Yes they went QRT on 02/17 at midnight as planned. 66 is all snow.



I wish they would shut off their digital station too since it is a waste. It is so strong where I live.


Now don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with religious stations except WFME. Although I was more into God and into Christianity a few years ago I just don't believe what that station teaches. I don't believe the wacko who owns the station. First he thinks that the world is only 10,000 years old. Hey what about proof of the dinosaurs.


Also he thinks the word is going to end in May of 2011. I even heard some guy arguing with him saying that no one but God knows when the end of the world is going to be. Even Christians don't believe his whacked out believes.


I was watching Daystar and even the Christan that was preaching on that station said that only God would know when the rapture would occur. Still that wacko station WFME has to beam really powerful. I am able to get it with my Terk antenna in every position I move it except one. I am even able to peak it at 96%. I think this is the reason why I have problems getting channel 4 stronger since it is on channel 28. Even his radio station is wasting space taking up a valuable spot for a commercial radio station.


End of rant.


Also no one who lives in a market where there is a high VHF station would tell me how reliable is reception. How are LOS issues with a indoor VHF antenna? I can't wait four more months thanks to the useless delay on how I am able to get channels 7, 11 and 13. Channel 7 is one of my strongest stations but only if I point the antenna one direction and have it on top of a DVD player and shoe box. I watched the Oscars last night and not one break up. Would really hate to lose channel 7 come June.


----------



## SemiChemE

So, is there any recourse for those of us in fringe areas seeing significant changes in our reception capabilities post-transition? Are there any efforts in the works with the FCC to increase broadcast power and thus coverage areas?


For example, with analog by pointing my antennas toward NYC I can currently receive the 7 major VHF stations (2,4,5,7,9,11,13) and a few UHF stations (25, 35, 41). If I point them toward Hartford I can get 8 and 20. Pointing towards Albany I get even more (6,10,17,23). The NYC stations come in the best, followed by Albany and then Hartford.


So far, with Digital I can only get a few Albany UHF stations (6.1, 10.1, 17.1, 45.1). So, post-transition my coverage drops from 14 channels including all the major networks to just 4 (or 3 if I can't get 6.1 which switches to channel 6 post-transition). And worse, I go from the NYC market, which provides local news and weather coverage for my area and which are available through the local cable providers to the Albany Market, which for whatever reason seems ignorant of anything south of Kingston.


Even more worrying as you may have inferred from above, I can't get the Albany VHF-Hi stations (13.1, 23.1) reliably. Some days they come in OK, but other days they fluctuate erratically jumping from 85% to 0% several times per minute with corresponding pixellation and loss of audio making them unwatchable. I'm really worried that 6.1 (moving to ch 6) will be even worse post transition.


It really seems like the FCC has been playing fast and loose with the coverage areas and I'm surprised we haven't heard more clamor from those like me who will experience a significant fall-off in digital reception.


----------



## LenL

First let me say again that Digital Reception appears to fluctuate greatly in signal strength for many of us who were able to get consistent analog reception. Like many of you I can go days where all the stations are great (like yesterday when it was very windy and the wind had no impact) to days where there are stations that can't be watched because they break up so much. This is unacceptable and the word needs to get out to the powers that be that we are going backwards! Even though the picture and sound are much better what good is it if you don't mnow from day to day whether you can watch TV? Now some of the better informed posters on this forum have said just wait till the transition as there will be changes to the antenna heights and some stations may increase power. That is good news and I will wait...I have too but for me that is a lot of ifs, ands and buts. This should all have been addressed BEFORE the analog was swtched off so WE would know what the hack we would be getting! The way they are making the switch over is leaving many of us in the dark till the last minute!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/15891154
> 
> 
> Thank you for the update. The FCC had them on the nightlight list, but it appears they didn't.



Actually I was wrong about that.


They are very very low power and displaying the "you need to get a converter box" message.


Is that what "nightlight" service is? I guess so.


----------



## reddice

Read this article on Yahoo. It is so true about digital reception.
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/200903...l_tv_reception


----------



## LenL

That was a great link with important info. One of my early posts on this forum said a lot of the same things about my experience with a great analog picture on many channels but I could not get digital for the same channels until I put up a UHF antenna on the roof with a preamp. I don't think my situation is unique.


This issue was never mentioned until recently. All the TV spots were talking about were simply get a converter box or a new TV. That works for some people but others will need a new antenna and maybe amps too!


----------



## SemiChemE

Does anybody know what happened to the Funimation channel that was being broadcast on 48.3? I still get 48.1 (WRNN) and 48.2 (rebroadcast of TBN), but 48.3 has been blank for the last couple of months.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/15957353
> 
> 
> This issue was never mentioned until recently. All the TV spots were talking about were simply get a converter box or a new TV. That works for some people but others will need a new antenna and maybe amps too!



The new TV spots with the June 12 date have been mentioning antennas.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, I've seen spots touting going to antennaweb.org.


For the heck of it, I went to the site and entered my address.


I was horrified to see both wrong and totally out of date information.


If this site is meant to help the public, once again, the public is being misinformed and misdirected.


It's amazing the way the NAB and the Consumer Electronics Association

can't get their act together!


----------



## Trip in VA

And that is why I direct people to TV Fool.


- Trip


----------



## Falcon_77

I have found even the FCC's own reception predictor to be much better than antennaweb. Antennaweb is showing Upper East Side in the red zone for UHF. wow.


Antennaweb seems to have a grudge against UHF.


2nd Edit: Be careful when re-scanning as it doesn't seem to reset the old results even when the inputs are changed. I can now get it to show about half the UHF stations that I can easily receive at home in Violet. They shouldn't be any worse than red.


When I told the FCC about some great resources (e.g. TV Fool) at a town hall meeting, they agreed that it was a good site, but couldn't recommend a 3rd party site. The "PSA's" don't seem to have any problems recommending Antennaweb.


----------



## SnellKrell

Mike -


You hit it right on the head.


Just look at the false locations they claim for way too many transmitting antennas!


It would be better to have no information versus bad information!


----------



## jaypb

Not sure if anyone mentioned it in this thread....but tomorrow AM 4-2 is turning into "NY Nonstop" (formerly Weather Plus). I'm a D* sub and checked my guide and it's showing "NY Nonstop" airing now...but Weather Plus is still on.


In addition, the bumpers said that it's available on TWC Channel 171 (??) starting tomorrow night at 7pm...but the talking head I just saw during the news said it debuts tomorrow AM at 5am.


Also, while I was watching they NEVER mentioned that this was available to any/all poor shleps with a rooftop antenna....or that it was replacing 4-2 Weather Plus. The only thing they mention is that it's "available on your local cable system"...but "not on channel 4....you'll have to check your local listings to see what channel it's on depending on your cable system". This was on the 6:00 PM news tonight on Sunday.....


Well at least NBC is consistent in NEVER promoting their very own OTA local channel capabilities.....


----------



## SnellKrell

First, the promo that you saw mentioning 7pm pertains to Chuck Scarborough's newscast - it previously has appeared on 4.1, as of tomorrow, it will be an hour.


The station no longer mentions over-the-air, it hasn't for all too long time.


NY Nonstop originally was to be very much like NY1. Then the financial cutbacks came about. It will now be garbage with much of the programming coming LTVX, a junk production company that produces a lot of programming for many of the NBC owned stations. Management liked the cheap junk so much, they bought the company!


They deserve each other!


The stations's management is totally inept.


Hey, the station is owned by G.E., what do you expect?


----------



## Bix

Anyone having any issues getting WPXN? After upgrading to the Radio Shack UFO today, I'm getting just about every major station in the market except for that (along with WXTV which I don't care about and WNET which is to be expected).


Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

31.1 coming in fine - usual signal.


----------



## Bix

Interesting...NY Non-Stop is a standard definition widescreen channel. Is this a first here in NY? How many are there elsewhere in the US?


----------



## Trip in VA

From what I can tell, it looks like it's not widescreen SD, rather it's letterboxed 4:3.


There are a few stations doing actual widescreen SD out there, though they're few and far between. (WTVS, WWTV, KUED are the ones I can think of off the top of my head)


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip -


It is letterboxed 4:3.


When 4:3 commercials are played, they look like postage stamps.


The whole thing is ill conceived, poorly executed and a waste of bits.


Totally inept!


General Sarnoff, I'm sure, is taking another spin in his grave.


Huge disappointment!


----------



## Trip in VA

Hopefully they'll flip it to widescreen SD sometime soon. It's completely doable, as I referenced several stations doing it.


WTVS 56-2 Detroit: http://img.lineupui.silicondust.com/...ot_9715655.jpg 

KUED 07-2 Salt Lake City: http://img.lineupui.silicondust.com/...ot_9715973.jpg 


- Trip


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/15997097
> 
> 
> Well at least NBC is consistent in NEVER promoting their very own OTA local channel capabilities.....



Does this mean we aren't really losing bandwidth on the HD channel?










I have seen this in the LA area as well, where a station put up a long list of where to find the sub-channel on various cable systems, but completely neglected their OTA sub-channel. A simple, you can also find ABC+ on 7.2, would have been nice. This happened when were having some bad fires, but they needed to switch the main channel (7.1) to a sporting event.


One of the supposed "benefits" of DTV was the ability to cram more channels into the same 6MHz bandwidth. This is really only effective when the main channel isn't HD, but outside of a few foreign language stations in the LA area, most stations seem to be fumbling the concept.


If stations are going to compromise our HD bit-rates they would do well to actually encourage people to watch the subs...


----------



## Bix

I'm pretty sure it's widescreen SD. When I cycle through the aspect options on my Tivax box connected to a 4:3 SD TV, the "wide" option for outputting to widescreen displayes fills the screen with a distorted, stretched image. If it was a 4:3 stream containing letterboxed widescreen programming, wouldn't the black bars be there somewhere?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bix* /forum/post/16001657
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's widescreen SD. When I cycle through the aspect options on my Tivax box connected to a 4:3 SD TV, the "wide" option for outputting to widescreen displayes fills the screen with a distorted, stretched image. If it was a 4:3 stream containing letterboxed widescreen programming, wouldn't the black bars be there somewhere?



If you're talking about 4.2, it most definitely is NOT widescreen SD.


You may be fooled by the way your STB or receiver is set.


The way the signal is being transmitted is Letterboxed 4:3 to make the

information appear as 16:9.


There are black borders on the sides and on the top and bottom of the screen.


----------



## Trip in VA

Black bars are at the top and bottom.

http://img.lineupui.silicondust.com/...ot_9717342.jpg 
http://img.lineupui.silicondust.com/...ot_9718289.jpg 
http://img.lineupui.silicondust.com/...ot_9719027.jpg 


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip -


This is a puzzler.


I can receive 4.2 in three different ways - all of them have bars top, bottom and sides.


The only way to eliminate the side bars is for me to go into on my TV one of the Stretch modes or Zoom.


The three methods of reception are:


1. Over-the-Air via a DirecTV tuner


2. Over-the-Air via TV's tuner


3. Cable QAM


All the same!


Are you sure that one of your components is not doing some stretching?


----------



## Trip in VA

Those links come from the SiliconDust search feature, which takes the video exactly as it's coming from the station--as if I was using TSReader to capture it.


- Trip


----------



## 2VW

New York NONSTOP


System Channel


Cablevision 109 NY 118 in Ct.


Time Warner Cable 161


Comcast 248


Verizon FIOS 464


RCN 189


Patriot 158


Charter 244


Over the air 4.2


----------



## Bix

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but why does the "wide" setting not feed the back bars in some form? Normally, 4:3 channels on a 4:3 TV are pillarboxed and stretched vertically when the Tivax is set to wide, while 16:9 is squished horizontally to fill the 4:3 screen. If it was a 4:3 channel with a letterboxed WS image, then where'd the letterboxing black bars go? Does the Tivax detect letterboxed programming and send it w/o the black bars when set to "wide" so it's not pilarboxed?


To simplify, it behaves like the 16:9 channels do.


----------



## Jrek

Hello,I'm in Ct.,I have a roof-top antenna with pre-amp,it's uhf-vhf channel master,I can recieve 2.1,4.1,5.1 from new york but I can find 7.1 wabc,is it coming from the same local as those other station that I can get,7.1 is the one I want the most because abc 8 here in Ct. is aweful,any help would be appreciated.I think at one time awhile back I used to get 7.1,have they moved or changed something? Thank you Jim


----------



## Trip in VA

Do you get PBS from WEDH 24-1? If so, you will be unable to receive WABC.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC-DT, 7.1 (transmitting currently on UHF 45) is located as 2.1, 4.1, and 5.1 at

the Empire State Building.


There have been times in the past when the station has been doing work on its ESB facility that it will switch to its backup at the Conde Naste Buidling, 4 Times Square.


But, with you being in Connecticut that change in location would not make a difference only the question of the backup's lower power.


I just checked, and everything seems to be fine with the main transmitter being used from the ESB.


----------



## Jrek

Why, 24-1 from Hartford effect 7-1 from new york,I can get everything from new york ,but 7-1? Thanks Jim


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jrek* /forum/post/16025474
> 
> 
> Why, 24-1 from Hartford effect 7-1 from new york,I can get everything from new york ,but 7-1? Thanks Jim



Both stations broadcast on channel 45.


Similarly, if you receive WPIX 11-1 from New York, you will not receive WFSB 3-1 from Hartford, because both are on channel 33.


- Trip


----------



## Jrek

So theres no way for me to get 7-1?Nothing I can do? Thanks Jim


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jrek* /forum/post/16026803
> 
> 
> So theres no way for me to get 7-1?Nothing I can do? Thanks Jim



You might be able to receive WABC-DT when they move from 45 back to 7 on June 12th.


----------



## Jrek

Hope so,cause abc in CT.is aweful,Thanks, Jim


----------



## jessegun23

Alrighty I have a question for you guys.


My wife and I decided to save some money and ditch time warner cable tv service and only get internet.


We have a Samsung LCD tv Samsung LN-S4696D it has a built in ATSC tuner but does not have a QAM tuner built in.


I've got a cable splitter plugged in from the internet cable line to the tv. I was hoping I would be able to pickup some HD signals but no go since I dont have QAM tuner built in.


So my question to you guys is what antenna would you recommend? We live at W 55th St on the 23rd floor of a building and we face north towards central park.


I also wasn't sure if I pickup an antenna would I also need a digital converter box for the big transition in June?


Thanks guys


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jessegun23* /forum/post/16069588
> 
> 
> Alrighty I have a question for you guys.
> 
> 
> My wife and I decided to save some money and ditch time warner cable tv service and only get internet.
> 
> 
> We have a Samsung LCD tv Samsung LN-S4696D it has a built in ATSC tuner but does not have a QAM tuner built in.
> 
> 
> I've got a cable splitter plugged in from the internet cable line to the tv. I was hoping I would be able to pickup some HD signals but no go since I dont have QAM tuner built in.
> 
> 
> So my question to you guys is what antenna would you recommend? We live at W 55th St on the 23rd floor of a building and we face north towards central park.
> 
> 
> I also wasn't sure if I pickup an antenna would I also need a digital converter box for the big transition in June?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys



You don't need a converter box, provided your TV has a ATSC tuner.

You can pick up this antenna from B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...TV_Indoor.html 


This is available in J&R too I think. There is one more version called HDTVa (amplfied version, if HDTVi doesn't work, try the HDTVa, which I used to own before but it broke after a year use).


Also, you can give this antenna a try too, because amazon let you return the antenna, if it doesn't work (only downside is more hassles). The antenna is highly rated (I use it and can vouch for it). The price has gone up by $6-$7 because of popular demand.
http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Aspen-Dt...7396228&sr=8-1 


Buy.com sells it too, but they are sold out right now:
http://www.buy.com/prod/pro-brand-di...202827678.html


----------



## reddice

I noticed that WFME now says channel 66 as a virtual channel. It's RF channel is still 29. I was hopping they would have moved there RF channel because it is so strong where I live it might be making channel 4 RF channel 28 weaker. Not sure just speculating.


----------



## LenL

I have a problem getting WFME. Sometimes is shows up.


However, I am reporting that for the past 2 weeks reception as measured by my TV's signal strength meter has been on the low side for all channels.


----------



## jessegun23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16069979
> 
> 
> You don't need a converter box, provided your TV has a ATSC tuner.
> 
> You can pick up this antenna from B&H:
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...TV_Indoor.html
> 
> 
> This is available in J&R too I think. There is one more version called HDTVa (amplfied version, if HDTVi doesn't work, try the HDTVa, which I used to own before but it broke after a year use).
> 
> 
> Also, you can give this antenna a try too, because amazon let you return the antenna, if it doesn't work (only downside is more hassles). The antenna is highly rated (I use it and can vouch for it). The price has gone up by $6-$7 because of popular demand.
> http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Aspen-Dt...7396228&sr=8-1
> 
> 
> Buy.com sells it too, but they are sold out right now:
> http://www.buy.com/prod/pro-brand-di...202827678.html



Thanks for the help man... I picked up a crappy RCA tuner from Bestbuy for $15 and it works great for some channels but then you have to mess with it to see other channels.


I'm probably going to return it and get that DB2 antenna from amazon... my wife i going to kill me because that thing is a huge eyesore... hopefully i can get it to fit in one of our windows and just have the blinds cover it haha


I also need to try and find a stand for it. I might try and use an extra speaker stand i have.


----------



## LenL

I have recently noticed that my signal strength meter on both TV's are showing very wide swings in signal. It used to be that the maximum signal would show for example 80% and the minimum would be 75%. Now I am seeing swings of 20-30% or more.


This is a recent event. Something has happpened either at the transmitters or at my house.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16105669
> 
> 
> This is a recent event. Something has happpened either at the transmitters or at my house.



My suspicion is that it's at the transmitters. Since roughly the beginning of the month, my reception of WNET has gone from "very reliable" with few, if any audio dropouts or video pixelation, to several seconds per hour of these errors. I've seen this before when we knew certain work was going on at the broadcast antennas, and it usually only took a few days before the work was completed and my signal was rock solid again.


So I'm not touching my antenna. I had it aimed about as well as it could be, and that orientation hasn't changed. So I'll wait until the magicians at the ESB finish working their magic. I just hope I don't have to wait until June for this to be all sorted out.


----------



## SnellKrell

The only change that I've noticed is that the "Signal Meter" on my receiver shows higher readings for WWOR-DT and for WNET-DT than previously!


Go figure!


----------



## balwx

Hi everyone. I hooked up an old rooftop mounted antenna to a new lcd this past week & have some questions. Hopefully, someone can advice.


I hooked up this antenna (yes, its one of those old school uhf/vhf?), with some new quad shield rg6. My question pertains to the signal I'm getting (with very frequent dropout) on 2.1 wcbs. Here are the signals I'm getting on select stations. BTW, I'm in central nj (08816) about 30M away per antennaweb.org. I'm using the signal strength meter on my samsung.



2.1 wcbs - usually 2-5/10 (always seems to be jumping around, with lots of dropouts


4.1 wnbc 8/10 solid

5.1 wnyw 8/10 solid

7.1 wabc 9/10 solid

9.1 wwor 8/10 solid

11.1 pix 7/10 solid


These are the main channels i'm interested in. It would ne nice to improve wcbs. I was thinking about turning the antenna slightly more to the ne. Its mounted about 6 feet above my roofline (2 level house). While reading a little about ota, it seems that these older antenna work very well, which I was very suprised.


any suggestions to improve wcbs (for the wife of course )

Thanks


----------



## LenL

Not sure if you read my earlier posts but CBS is one of my issues too. Since it is broadcasting from the same place (Empire State Building) as the other main stations I would not move your antenna if the others are coming in ok.


----------



## balwx

Thanks for the help. I'm not going to move the antenna, like you said other channels I'm getting in great are broadcast from the ESB. I guess there's nothing else I can do?


----------



## rothe

balwx,


Try plugging your zip code into tvfool.com. They have a nice circular directionality graph that will show you the optimal orientation for each of the channels in your listening area. You'll see that most of the stations that you want are either right at 45-46 degrees (NE), with a few at 19-20 degrees (NNE). I would think that if you aimed your antenna right at 45 degrees, you'd be getting the best reception that you can with that particular antenna. Note that TVFool shows both true north and magnetic north orientations. BTW, you really should use a compass if you want to get this right and be sure about it.


If you still need more signal than that, then you can always buy a larger antenna, or at least get a similar sized one that is optimized for only VHF-high and UHF. Your current antenna was probably designed for those two bands, plus VHF-low/FM. So roughly one-third of the elements on that antenna are probably useless to you in this new digital-only era.


----------



## balwx

Thanks rothe. I see your a little south my location. How is your wcbs 2.1 reception? Thanks for the site, I'm looking at it now.


Also, if I decide to replace this antenna (its really rusty & weathered) can you please suggest a model for me?


Thanks


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *balwx* /forum/post/16112868
> 
> 
> Thanks rothe. I see your a little south my location. How is your wcbs 2.1 reception?



Generally, it has been rock-solid. Thirteen is the only major network that regularly gives me any trouble. Of course, it just happens to be the one that I watch most.











> Quote:
> Thanks for the site, I'm looking at it now.
> 
> 
> Also, if I decide to replace this antenna (its really rusty & weathered) can you please suggest a model for me?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Everybody has their favorite brands and models, so an answer to that question can be pretty subjective. I could go into all of my objective reasons for choosing the Winegard HD7698P that I ultimately settled on, but the same reasons might not apply to your needs. Still, I like that brand, and the entire 7600-series product line is just what the doctor ordered for VHF-high/UHF reception. They're a little pricey, but $50-$120 for a good broadcast signal is still much cheaper than a monthly cable bill.


----------



## LenL

I currently have a CM 4228 antenna mounted outside and would like to mount a smaller UHF bow tie antenna below it by about 2-3 feet on the same mast. I plan on running the rg6 cable from the bow tie antenna to another TV.


My question is would having two antennas on the same mast degrade the CM4228 reception? Would they interfere with each other?


Short of trying it I thought I would get some expert advice before I climb a ladder and do the work.


----------



## rothe

LenL,


There will definitely be some reflected signals bouncing off of one antenna and to the other. How badly this will affect reception would be very difficult to calculate, so you won't really know until after you try it. Honestly, I wouldn't invest the time, money or labor on such a project - I think you're introducing variables that are just begging for some reception problems with both sets.


A better solution would be to simply split the signal from your 4228 after a mast-mounted preamplifier, and then run a second cable to your other TV.


BTW, you might want to check out this page:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html 


The author makes some interesting comments about wind and VHF-high reception problems specific to the 4228, and I'm recalling that you are one of few forum members here who have commented about reception problems on windy days.


----------



## LenL

Thanks for the advice and link which has great info on the CM4228! The info does say there is a wind problem with this antenna ...but for VHF not UHF. My problems are UHF. Also I have had great reception on Windy days and bad reception on Windy days. So I don't think the Wind is the variable that is causing a UHF problem.


I have tried to spilt the signal 2 ways and the impact was minimal. However I have 3 TVs and would rather not split 3 ways. Plus I found this small bow tie UHF antenna in my attic and hooked it up in the house (second floor by a window) with a preamp and got all the channels but with signal strength in the 50-60% range. I figure if I mount it outside I can get even better results. I just did not want to buy and install another mast outside.


I guess at this point I will just try to mount it lower on the mast and see if the existing CM4228 is impacted.


----------



## rothe

LenL,


Is there a mast-mounted pre-amp on your CM4228? If so, then I'd say "split away!" If not, then install one. Ten to fifteen db of amplification will more than exceed any signal loss from a three-way splitter.


Poke around on the rest of that site. There's great information about splitters and combiners, pre-amps, distribution amps, and all sorts of antenna comparisons.


----------



## LenL

Yes I have a CM 7777 Titan 2 Amp at the Antenna and the power supply for it at the TV where it is supposed to be accoding to Channel Master. That makes it a bit of a problem to split for the TV upstairs.


----------



## rothe

See the drawing on page 29:

http://www.channelmasterintl.com/doc...stallation.pdf 



Can you set things up like that?


----------



## StudioTech

FYI, within the last day or two, WNJU-DT Telemundo 47 switched to 1080i. No HD programming at this point.


----------



## LenL

Thanks! I have seen this before from your link that you posted earlier but this looks like old documentation and disagrees with the documentation in the CM7777 material. I can try this and see what happens.


I think since my signal is kind of marginal at this point I will wait till 6/12 and see what the signals look like then before I try splitting signals...


Thanks again.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16133324
> 
> 
> FYI, within the last day or two, WNJU-DT Telemundo 47 switched to 1080i. No HD programming at this point.



MIAMI, March 23 /PRNewswire/ -- Latin music stars . . . have confirmed their appearances as exclusive performers at the 2009 Billboard Latin Music Awards . . . The ceremony will take place on Thursday, April 23 at 7PM/6c from The BankUnited Center at the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida. The Awards Show will air live in High Definition on Telemundo, the first Hispanic network to broadcast in true HD.


----------



## reddice

Now channel 47 is not a waste since they now broadcast in 1080i and will be having HD programs. Any channels like WFME and WNYE and the network subchannels that broadcast in 480i are still a big waste. 480i looks horrible on my 1080p HDTV.


----------



## velomec

Hi - wondering if there is anyone in my immediate vicinity that is successfully receiving channel 13 (PBS) well OTA and if so what antennae they are using?


I'm currently using:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=HD7694P 


but have also tried:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=HD-1080 


at my last apartment I had one of these that worked well:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...?PROD=ANCM3018 


I have roof access, 10 foot pool on top of a 3 storie brownstone,


----------



## AloEuro

Get read out from www.TVFool.com count your LOSes,you get better idea of your box capabilities


----------



## velomec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *velomec* /forum/post/16156624
> 
> 
> Hi - wondering if there is anyone in my immediate vicinity that is successfully receiving channel 13 (PBS) well OTA and if so what antennae they are using?
> 
> 
> I'm currently using:
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=HD7694P
> 
> 
> but have also tried:
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=HD-1080
> 
> 
> at my last apartment I had one of these that worked well:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...?PROD=ANCM3018
> 
> 
> I have roof access, 10 foot pool on top of a 3 storie brownstone,


----------



## reddice

I am only 4 miles from the ESB and I can't get a bunch of stations like channels 2, 13, 31, 41 at all. Okay channel 2 I can sometimes get but all I get is a bunch of pixels. Some days I can lock in a picture but it is very unreliable. It seems the further away you are the better your reception is as I can get channels 47, 50 and 66 from NJ. 47 and 66 being the strongest.


----------



## lexus2108

I am not sure if this was posted in this thread yet. Since I haven't been to this thread in awhile


Anyway it seems the NBC sub channel 4-2 has changed. From 24/7 weather to "NEW YORK NONSTOP"


Although better then 24/7 weather. We are disappointed that NBC did not take the opportunity to put on a movie channel or at least old sitcoms. So now we have NY Nonstop on 4-2 and on 4-4 old Olympics.


Disappointing to say the least.


If this was talked about already. Could you provide a link for the posts?


thanks


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16175330
> 
> 
> If this was talked about already. Could you provide a link for the posts?
> 
> 
> thanks


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15997097


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16176973
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15997097



OMG ty


----------



## POWERFUL

As for the disgust of the LXTV programs, I happen to think Sara Gore on that program is worth watching. Wow, she is very attractive.


----------



## reddice

4-2 is a big waste. Most of the time it is centered with a tiny image on the screen. 4:3 imaged Letterboxed, letterboxed again in a letterboxed. Why don't they just get rid of these 480i subchannel wasted so there main 720p or 1080i subchannel channel can look better.


----------



## SnellKrell

What's with the Combiner today????


This morning the only Combiner stations I could receive were 56 and 45 - both at reduced levels and I'm sure that 45 was transmitting from Conde Nast.


This afternoon - 56 has disappeared!


Anyone know what's going on or off????


----------



## SnellKrell

Now - very poor signal for 56 - registers very low - no reception.


Then - signal is gone!


Wish someone who knows what's going on would respond!!!!!


----------



## reddice

I am getting poor reception too. I can never get channel 2 RF 56 good or at all but now I can't get channels 4, 7 and 11. Channel 5 and 9 are fine. Of course I am getting channels 25, 47, 50. Craptastic channel 66 is of course is in the high 80's which is the strongest. Channel 7 which was the strongest I can only peak at in the 20's which I use to be able to get it in the high 70's to low 80's. Then of course I am going to hear from people in NJ 30 miles away with a bowtie antenna getting those stations strong. Sorry I just don't believe you. Serious though they must be running in reduced power.


----------



## johninbricknj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16192828
> 
> 
> I am getting poor reception too. I can never get channel 2 RF 56 good or at all but now I can't get channels 4, 7 and 11. Channel 5 and 9 are fine. Of course I am getting channels 25, 47, 50. Craptastic channel 66 is of course is in the high 80's which is the strongest. Channel 7 which was the strongest I can only peak at in the 20's which I use to be able to get it in the high 70's to low 80's. Then of course I am going to hear from people in NJ 30 miles away with a bowtie antenna getting those stations strong. Sorry I just don't believe you. Serious though they must be running in reduced power.



All my digitals are down, central jersey 40+ miles south.I usually never have any problems with them. There must be something going on, the storms today were pretty intense.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's Saturday morning and the reception problems with the Combiner continue!


----------



## martianpete

I lost my signal just before 12AM on Thursday night for most of my channels. I am hooked to an antenna on my roof and still it's a very weak signal. It's Saturday afternoon now and my signal is still weak. Is everyone experiencing the same thing?


----------



## LenL

Been complaining about it for the past month. The only channels I can get reliably are 7.1 and 5.1. The rest of the NY stations are barely receiveable! I can't watch the NCAAs on 2.1 it is so bad!


I was hoping to get rid of cable but with the crappy reception it is doubtful that I can. I will stick it out till June 12th and beyond a month or so before I give up on OTA....There needs to be dramatic improvement to make OTA viable for me. Just getting 2 channels sucks.


----------



## balwx

my 2.1 is unwatchable today


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16196177
> 
> 
> Been complaining about it for the past month. The only channels I can get reliably are 7.1 and 5.1. The rest of the NY stations are barely receiveable! I can't watch the NCAAs on 2.1 it is so bad!
> 
> 
> I was hoping to get rid of cable but with the crappy reception it is doubtful that I can. I will stick it out till June 12th and beyond a month or so before I give up on OTA....There needs to be dramatic improvement to make OTA viable for me. Just getting 2 channels sucks.



The current outage/reduction in power has not been in effect for the past month, it just took place as of yesterday.


The reason you're receiving WABC-DT (7.1, 7.2, 7.3) is that the station is using its backup transmitter and antenna on the Conde Nast Building.


WNYW-DT (5.1, 5.2) has its own antenna on the ESB and is not part of the Combiner - the Combiner is the facility that is giving all of us reception problems.


----------



## martianpete

Since late Thursday night I lost channels 2.1, 7.1 (2 & 3), 13.1 and a couple of others. I live on the highest point of Brooklyn where, theoretically, I should have "the best" signal. But I don't.


My signal is also weak on several others. Is this related to the combiner? What exactly is the combiner? Also where is the combiner located, at the Empire State Building?


----------



## SnellKrell

The Combiner is located at the Empire State Building.


It allows many stations, although using individual transmitters, to use only one antenna.


Currently, the digital Combiner provides transmission for the main and sub-channels for:

2, 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13.


As I previously mentioned in another post, Channel 7, in addition to being a component of the Combiner, also has a backup facility at the Conde Nast Building - 4 Times Square.

This is the transmitter and antenna that WABC-DT is currently using.


I just wish that some station personnel would let us know what's going on and when the Combiner stations will be back at full power.


----------



## SubaruB4

What is going on?? I have had no issues at all with 2.1 ever since they did the work they did a few months ago it went from being one of the worst stations to one where I get 90% signal all the time..


However channel 11.1 and 11.2 something funky is going on.. for the past two days it has been unwatchable.. good thing I can use 5.1 and 5.2 as back up's


I need to read bac a page or so but I'm sure you all heard when Channel 7 will be switching off analog and moving to digital.. 12:30pm was a interesting time I thought.


also WNYE is acting funny I was getting 50-70% signal but no picture?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16196901
> 
> 
> What is going on?? I have had no issues at all with 2.1 ever since they did the work they did a few months ago it went from being one of the worst stations to one where I get 90% signal all the time..
> 
> 
> However channel 11.1 and 11.2 something funky is going on.. for the past two days it has been unwatchable.. good thing I can use 5.1 and 5.2 as back up's
> 
> 
> I need to read bac a page or so but I'm sure you all heard when Channel 7 will be switching off analog and moving to digital.. 12:30pm was a interesting time I thought.
> 
> 
> also WNYE is acting funny I was getting 50-70% signal but no picture?



I live 25 miles away on Long Island and I get all the channels fine ( except PBS and ION, which are low power).


----------



## SnellKrell

It's Sunday morning and still cannot receive Combiner stations!


A friend who lives in Queens and has L-O-S to ESB has no problems.


DirecTV local NY stations are fine - therefore, I imagine that the Combiner stations have either reduced power or are using the backup antennas lower on the ESB, or possibly both scenarios.


I can't remember not being able to receive signals for this length of time, and there's no communication from stations' management. Not very responsible!!!!


Just damned frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sys_epoll

Here in Monmouth County, the ESB Combiner stations

are still out. Channel 5 (5.1, 5.2) is coming in

at its usual strength. Its been this way since last

Friday.


Almost like that Cablevision scare ad come to life.


Tom


----------



## Falcon_77

I couldn't find any info about the problems, but then current DTV viewers seem to be treated like Beta testers and that we don't warrant any "tech support."


From the WCBS website:



> Quote:
> It's coming! Starting June 12, 2009, all broadcast television will be digital.



I have always thought this was the wrong message, but perhaps broadcasters simply don't want people to watch the digital signals yet, even though they have been around for years...



> Quote:
> NOTICE OF DTV-RELATED SERVICE LOSSES: Some WCBS-TV viewers on Long Island may lose service due to interference from WFSB, a CBS affiliate in Connecticut, which has been authorized on channel 33, the same channel to which WCBS-TV was assigned for its digital signal.



Note the lack of mention of moving from 56 to 33.


Do stations not need to warn existing DTV viewers of frequency or band changes? It seems not.


----------



## poly_poly-man

alright, same problems as everyone else here in monmouth county...


I found some contact information that might help someone:


Shane O'Donoghue

Broadcast Manager

Empire State Building Co., LLC

350 Fifth Avenue, Suite 300

New York, NY 10118

212-736-3100
[email protected] 


Someone who knows what they're talking about might want to call...


source: http://www.esbnyc.com/tourism/tourism_broadcasting.cfm


----------



## jmcnally




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16196779
> 
> 
> The Combiner is located at the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> It allows many stations, although using individual transmitters, to use only one antenna.
> 
> 
> Currently, the digital Combiner provides transmission for the main and sub-channels for:
> 
> 2, 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13.
> 
> 
> As I previously mentioned in another post, Channel 7, in addition to being a component of the Combiner, also has a backup facility at the Conde Nast Building - 4 Times Square.
> 
> This is the transmitter and antenna that WABC-DT is currently using.
> 
> 
> I just wish that some station personnel would let us know what's going on and when the Combiner stations will be back at full power.



I, too, am seeing greatly reduced signal strength on DT channels 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 25. DT channels 5, 41, 47 and 68 are all normal. Also, no change on the analog side. I have a pretty solid 5th-storey rooftop mount in Cobble Hill, Brooklyn.


I only noticed the outage last night around 11 PM. This is very frustrating!


----------



## reddice

The problem is that when analog reduces power you can still get a fuzzy picture but when digital reduces power all you get is a black screen saying low signal. Don't see this as progress even if they reduced power I am only 4 miles away so I should be able to get a picture. The only station that is still strong is channel 5 because they are on there own antenna. Yesterday I checked I am still getting channel 9 good too. My mothers Apex converter box could not get channel 9 though.


----------



## reddice

Also you can live on one part of the city and can't get certain stations and someone else a few blocks away can get though stations that you can't get. I am only a few blocks from Cobble Hill. I live at the end of one zip code and a block from me is another zip code. I can't ever get a blimp of picture for channel 41 and channel 68 is has very bad multipath issues. I can be watching it and it can go to around 60% to 0% about every 10 to 30 seconds. Bet you someone a few block from me can't get channel 66 but I get it really strong particularly where I am located.


----------



## jkelly

Hello,


I am in Sea Girt and have lost everything but 5-1 and 5-2.


Jeff


----------



## SnellKrell

The Main Combiner Antenna and former power are back!


----------



## tahoejoe

Just to let you know, I haven't seen any changes over the past week. Everything but 13 ( which I've never received) is still coming in fine. I'm about 20 miles west of the ESB using a radio shack antenna in my attic. I haven't read all the posts, but it looks like many of you having problems are south of the ESB.


----------



## SnellKrell

The backup antennas are located on the Southeast and Northeast corners of the ESB.


The Southeast panel array is also used even when the main antenna on the mast is operational - it's a fill-in for Brooklyn and Queens.


Those who have line-of-sight to ESB probably didn't notice any difference with the Combiner stations using the backup antennas - lower on the building and putting out lower power.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/16206486
> 
> 
> Just to let you know, I haven't seen any changes over the past week. Everything but 13 ( which I've never received) is still coming in fine. I'm about 20 miles west of the ESB using a radio shack antenna in my attic. I haven't read all the posts, but it looks like many of you having problems are south of the ESB.



Just curious, do you get ION ?


----------



## reddice

All the channels that I was able to receive I am receiving them again at the same signal strengths. Glad it is fixed.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16192828
> 
> 
> I am getting poor reception too. I can never get channel 2 RF 56 good or at all but now I can't get channels 4, 7 and 11. Channel 5 and 9 are fine. Of course I am getting channels 25, 47, 50. Craptastic channel 66 is of course is in the high 80's which is the strongest. Channel 7 which was the strongest I can only peak at in the 20's which I use to be able to get it in the high 70's to low 80's. Then of course I am going to hear from people in NJ 30 miles away with a bowtie antenna getting those stations strong. Sorry I just don't believe you. Serious though they must be running in reduced power.



Well guess what.. I too was having problems with CBS and ABC on Sat and Sun. Initially I thought that it may be because of the wind gusts (but during the previous wind gusts, I was not affected). But yesterday too, I was having problem. I had to fiddle with the directions a lot to find the sweet spot to get everything reliably.

If you happen to visit Franklin Township/Easton Avenue area, you are most welcome to visit my apt. I will post the detailed setup for my antenna and the RG-6 run from the antenna to the TV tuner and HTPC Media Center (signal split into two) when I reach home.


----------



## lexus2108

Don't know if others have this problem. ABC channel 7-1,7-2, 7-3 are now coming over as 72-1, 72-2, 72-3


This has happened before on other stations and has corrected itself.


Anyone know if this is something with ABC? Or with my converter box DTVPAL (don't think so)


thanks


----------



## Trip in VA

Rescan. It's a quirk with the DTVPal.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16211616
> 
> 
> Rescan. It's a quirk with the DTVPal.
> 
> 
> - Trip



What kind of scan since there are different types of scans? "find new channels"


Or something different?


ty


----------



## SnellKrell

Everything normal on both of my two O-T-A tuners - 7.1, 7.2, 7.3.


----------



## lexus2108

"find new channels" Does not change the 72-1, 72-2, 72-3 back to 7-1, 7-2, 7-3


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16211798
> 
> 
> Everything normal on both of my two O-T-A tuners - 7.1, 7.2, 7.3.



tv turners? or converter box?


----------



## lexus2108

ok a full scan seemed to fix it all. ty


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16209433
> 
> 
> I will post the detailed setup for my antenna and the RG-6 run from the antenna to the TV tuner and HTPC Media Center (signal split into two) when I reach home.



FWups..

TV and HTPC connected to the TV exclusively. You can see the white RG-6 cable coming from the antenna.
 


The antenna mount is also a speaker stand (rear right)
 


The RG-6 is a 25ft cable run from the antenna to the splitter.


----------



## SubaruB4

I hear WABC might be pulling the plug on WABC+...


they sent a notice to Cablevision but I wonder what happens for the OTA


"WABC has advised us that they will cease operations of their multicast channel ABC Plus (ABC +) effective Monday, April 27, 2009. Cablevision was advised of this programming change by WABC less than 30 days prior to the channel deletion, which is why this notification is provided with less than 30 days notice.


At the same time, WABC will launch a new HD multicast service, Live Well HD which will launch on channel 729. Live Well HD Network is a network that covers topics that matter most in a vibrant viewer's well-lived life. Live Well HD will be made available as a digital HD service in the Broadcast Basic package. "

http://www.dpuc.state.ct.us/DPUCUndo...7?OpenDocument


----------



## tahoejoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16206763
> 
> 
> Just curious, do you get ION ?



Haven't checked in the past few days, but ION normally comes in fine.


----------



## n2ubp

>>WABC will launch a new HD multicast service, Live Well HD


----------



## SnellKrell

HD?


That's interesting.


Will the station be able to broadcast two HD signals at the same time?


Or will it only be HD when 7.1 is broadcasts SD?


Speaking of a waste of bandwidth - that's 4's Nonstop! An embarrassment!!!!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16216605
> 
> 
> HD?
> 
> 
> That's interesting.
> 
> 
> Will the station be able to broadcast two HD signals at the same time?



I'm sure they could if they give them equal bandwidth. That means each channel only gets about 8 Mbps, which means they'll both look very soft and forget trying to watch any fast motion.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16214526
> 
> 
> I hear WABC might be pulling the plug on WABC+...
> 
> 
> they sent a notice to Cablevision but I wonder what happens for the OTA
> 
> 
> "WABC has advised us that they will cease operations of their multicast channel ABC Plus (ABC +) effective Monday, April 27, 2009. Cablevision was advised of this programming change by WABC less than 30 days prior to the channel deletion, which is why this notification is provided with less than 30 days notice.
> 
> 
> At the same time, WABC will launch a new HD multicast service, Live Well HD which will launch on channel 729. Live Well HD Network is a network that covers topics that matter most in a vibrant viewer's well-lived life. Live Well HD will be made available as a digital HD service in the Broadcast Basic package. "
> 
> http://www.dpuc.state.ct.us/DPUCUndo...7?OpenDocument



Any idea if they will replace 7.2 ABC plus with the new "Well HD Network " Or will that be just for cable and OTA loses a channel?


Man why can't these guys have a 24/7 movie channel. Can't be that hard


----------



## lexus2108

Found this and thought I would share

*

"Effective April 27, WABC is replacing WABC+ with Live Well HD. I'm sure everyone is looking forward to this one"*

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r221...eplacing-WABC- 


The link is where I found this information. Not sure if true


----------



## StudioTech

Pretty much the same info that's been posted here. There hasn't been an official announcement from WABC yet.


----------



## Trip in VA

And there's nothing stating that it'll be HD over the air. More than one station does SD over the air and then feeds HD over fiber to the cable company.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16225776
> 
> 
> And there's nothing stating that it'll be HD over the air. More than one station does SD over the air and then feeds HD over fiber to the cable company.
> 
> 
> - Trip



So your saying that Cable will have HD and OTA will have SD? Why would they go through the trouble of making 2 standards?


It is possible that OTA will get NO replacement at all?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16226583
> 
> 
> So your saying that Cable will have HD and OTA will have SD? Why would they go through the trouble of making 2 standards?
> 
> 
> It is possible that OTA will get NO replacement at all?



I'm not saying anything will or won't happen, it's just a possibility. I've seen it happen in other markets.


(They would do what 4-2 is doing, produce it in HD then downconvert to widescreen SD or, worse, crop it into regular SD for 7-2.)


It's possible they would decline to replace 7-2 but I'm doubting they'd do that. And if they do, the quality on 7-1 goes up.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16226644
> 
> 
> I'm not saying anything will or won't happen, it's just a possibility. I've seen it happen in other markets.
> 
> 
> (They would do what 4-2 is doing, produce it in HD then downconvert to widescreen SD or, worse, crop it into regular SD for 7-2.)
> 
> 
> It's possible they would decline to replace 7-2 but I'm doubting they'd do that. And if they do, the quality on 7-1 goes up.
> 
> 
> - Trip


*Well I tried e-mailing ABC.com and just got back a robot message. Nothing that answered my question*


As you can imagine, we receive thousands of messages a day from our viewers and while we appreciate you taking the time to provide feedback regarding our programming, we are not able to respond to each one directly.


We encourage you to continue to communicate with us!


IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT CHANGING TO DIGITAL TELEVISION:


Television as we know it is about to change! Are YOU ready?



By law, full-power television stations nationwide must switch from traditional analog transmitting to digital television (DTV) on June 12, 2009.


DTV is an innovative new type of broadcasting technology that delivers movie-quality pictures and sound, more channels, and even high definition television (HDTV) to consumers with HD television sets. While the benefits of DTV are remarkable, millions of households risk losing television reception unless they take the easy steps to receive a digital signal.


If you receive over-the-air television signals through antennas on television sets that are equipped with analog tuners – and if you do not subscribe to cable, satellite or a telephone company television service provider – you will be affected by the transition.


Learn how to prepare for DTV by visiting www.DTVAnswers.com or by calling 1-888-DTV-2009.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16226644
> 
> 
> (They would do what 4-2 is doing, produce it in HD then downconvert to widescreen SD or, worse, crop it into regular SD for 7-2.)



Just a slight clarification. Even though 4-2 has programming that was produced in widescreen, it's still being sent out OTA and cable at 4:3 so it winds up getting letterboxed no matter what.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16227371
> 
> 
> Just a slight clarification. Even though 4-2 has programming that was produced in widescreen, it's still being sent out OTA and cable at 4:3 so it winds up getting letterboxed no matter what.



Still? I thought they'd have fixed that by now.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech

Just me speculating, but they probably think it's not an issue.


----------



## martianpete

Ever since the combiner went down, to me…nothing is better. Only worse. Now I'm having problems with 4.1, 4.2 & 4.4. Damn signal is so weak it's not worth watching. Arrrgh! I hope something happens soon to get us back to where we were before this started. It was fine to begin with.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *martianpete* /forum/post/16228341
> 
> 
> Ever since the combiner went down, to menothing is better. Only worse. Now I'm having problems with 4.1, 4.2 & 4.4. Damn signal is so weak it's not worth watching. Arrrgh! I hope something happens soon to get us back to where we were before this started. It was fine to begin with.



combiner went down,


What is that? My aunt lives in Queens and no signal problems at all? In fact tvfool shows that mpst stations will boost power in NYC area on June 12th


----------



## martianpete

The combiner is…as I learned this weekend -->



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16196779
> 
> 
> The Combiner is located at the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> It allows many stations, although using individual transmitters, to use only one antenna.
> 
> 
> Currently, the digital Combiner provides transmission for the main and sub-channels for:
> 
> 2, 4, 7, 9, 11 and 13.
> 
> 
> As I previously mentioned in another post, Channel 7, in addition to being a component of the Combiner, also has a backup facility at the Conde Nast Building - 4 Times Square.
> 
> This is the transmitter and antenna that WABC-DT is currently using.



It went down this past weekend which caused reception problems for most people in the NYC area. When it was fixed things were back to "normal". Unfortunately, I'm experiencing a weaker signal on all of the WNBC stations now.


----------



## reddice

WNBC is picky. I can get it stronger if I move my Terk antenna into a odd position. I think is that DT 29 that is interfering with it.


Also I wish they would just get rid of that 7.2 WABC+ channel. Anything would be a improvement since 90% when I put it on they are playing stupid Infomercials.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16212190
> 
> 
> FWups..
> 
> TV and HTPC connected to the TV exclusively. You can see the white RG-6 cable coming from the antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> The antenna mount is also a speaker stand (rear right)
> 
> 
> 
> The RG-6 is a 25ft cable run from the antenna to the splitter.



I am not saying I don't believe you in particular. I see you have multiple bowties connected to another antenna. I tried it will just one bowtie with no amps or anything. Nice TV too. I could not get a TV bigger than 32" because I could not fit anything bigger in my tiny room. My room is tiny. You would be suprised how I can fit my computer and TV in the same room with a closet taking up over 1/4th of space and my bed taking up more. I have to rely on the cruddy TV speakers sound because I have no room for a surround system that I bought a couple of years ago. I have my shelf stereo in my closet because there is no other place to put it. I also have my TV sound hooked up to that for better sound. My upconvert DVD player is also in my closet. My 612 DVR is behind my TV because there is no other place to stick it. You can't even get to my window properly without moving things around which is why I had to put my Terk antenna and my printer in my Grandmothers room.


I don't feel like taking pictures but if you were here your room would be the size of a palace compared to mine.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma

I have an old dish echostar receiver for the satalight only networks [like AMC, TV Land & etc] & an antenna for the OTA locals. Does any one remember watching the Sound of music last winter when ABC carried it & was OTA from WABC? It looked great & was 16:9 wide screen just like it did at the movies in 1966. It was on ABC family network tonight. The resolution was ok concidering the max my dish echostar receiver does is S-video. But it was in 4:3.


Did any one else that has HD cable or dish see it?

Was it in 4:3 SD or HD 16:9?

Is the limitation at the ABC family network or was it in dish network?


What is even worse, is after paying for it to be delivered to your house it had more commercials that WABC did while WABC is free. Then seeing it so good on OTA last winter it was a let down to see it cropped. After they ODed me on commercials I changed the channel. When something is free like WABC I expect to see commercials. But when I pay for the network I expect a better service not worse. I am sorry to go on here. I will get down off the apple box now


----------



## LenL

Get yourself a library card (if you don't have one) and use your computer to have your local library get the Sound of Music for you and notify you when it is available for borrowing. It's free! Then you can enjoy it w/o any commercials and stop it if you want for a snack or potty break!


I almost never watch movies on TV anymore as the commercial breaks just destroy the continuity!


Also someone on this forum was suggesting that there are fewer commercial breaks with OTA versus cable on any given channel. I have been switching back and forth and I have not noticed any difference. If there is I don't see it.


Movies are simply not bearable on TV.....OTA or cable unless you are getting HBO etc.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Also someone on this forum was suggesting that there are fewer commercial breaks with OTA versus cable on any given channel. I have been switching back and forth and I have not noticed any difference. If there is I don't see it."


There is absolutely no difference in the length of commercial breaks when comparing

O-T-A and receiving the same network program on cable or satellite. The length of breaks are identical. The only difference will be the "local" availabilities for commercials.


O-T-A reception will have the local station insert the commercials that they have sold.


And cable and satellite delivery will contain those commercials sold by your local cable provider or buy Dish or DirecTV.


The total amount of commercial time in no way differs!


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16255164
> 
> 
> The total amount of commercial time in no way differs!



At least you don't have to pay to watch commercials with OTA.


----------



## SnellKrell

Here's a link to an interesting article about 1 World Trade Center (Freedom Tower) and why it may very well not become a transmission facility for New York DMA stations.

http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16255956
> 
> 
> At least you don't have to pay to watch commercials with OTA.




I agree 100 0/0.


It makes me think about just turning it off & just watching the free OTA only.


----------



## kousikb

Official DTV Reception map post-transition. It has some nifty features like if you click on the callsign it shows the direction oon the map as well as the Rx sensitivity:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ 


Also this document is really good.. seems like the broadcasters have done field coverage testing and come up with a comprehensive document for the NY market and have indicated which area will see improvement and which area will degrade after transition:

http://llnw.static.cbslocal.com/stat...ew_York_NY.pdf 


Hope this is useful. I saw WCBS mentioning these documents so I went to their website and got these information.


----------



## kousikb

It seems the FCC map has all the details about gain/loss maps. Thus, if you can get gain/loss info on all stations as opposed to the CBS specific pdf I have pointed in my earlier post.


----------



## SnellKrell

A number of people question the reality with the FCC's digital coverage figures when it comes to urban areas and specifically viewers using indoor antennas.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16257619
> 
> 
> A number of people question the reality with the FCC's digital coverage figures when it comes to urban areas and specifically viewers using indoor antennas.



Yes that's the sad truth. Majority of OTA viewers rely on indoor rabbit-ear or age old outdoor VHF antenna (which may not be pointed at the right direction), cables may be old, connections may be rusted. Out of all all these issues, people may get frustrated, impatient and fall into the current pitch being done by cable cos (especially cablevision). Little does people realize that a little hassle to set up a good antenna will go a long way in having a life less complicated (less TV viewing because of less options but adequate IMO, more outdoor life.. good for both kids and adults) and free from the ever increasing cable bill.


----------



## reddice

That is why I don't watch ABC Family. Way too many commercials. Try watching The Incredibles on ABC Family with breaks all the time and then watch it on Disney Channel with only three short breaks with no real commercials. I watch it on Disney Channel. I always hated ABC Family because they overdo the commercial breaks.


----------



## POWERFUL

I couldn't agree more with ABC Family and their relentless commercials.


----------



## LenL

My mom who lives about 1/2 mile from me and has had good reception via OTA called me last night at 9 PM to report digital 7.1 was not being received. She loves dancing with the stars and this was the first time she lost WABC 7.1 reception. I have no explanation as that has been one of our better stations. Since I have reconnected to cable I could not check out my antenna to see if I have lost it too. Uusually that is my best channel and often one of the few I get relaibly.


Anyone else out there have a problem Monday night with 7.1?


----------



## martianpete




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16262332
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else out there have a problem Monday night with 7.1?



I have been having problems with 4.1, 4.2 & 4.4 for the last week and 1/2. Don't know if that helps but I think something is going on. It's been driving me nuts.


----------



## jaypb

Were the OTA networks down early this AM (i.e. 3 o'clock AM hour)? My D* HDDVR which is set to record the Leno show at it's 3am repeat time recorded :55 of grey screened goodness...and I was just curious if WNBC was "down" at that time...or if it's just another in a long line of HR21 muck ups.....


----------



## LenL

I went over to my moms today to speak with her face to face and get to the bottom of her issue with 7.1 on Monday night. It seems that she was on 7.2 and not 7.1 and after she called me she figured it out. I thought she was telling me the picture went out but she was telling me the Dancing with the Stars was not on. She had called her neighbors and they said it was on and when she called me and said she was not getting it I assumed 7.1 reception.


By the way she is using an RCA converter box with a Sony analog TV and the reception is great.


----------



## sansri88

just wondering, is WLIW now broadcasting in HD OTA or is it still just a digital channel? We on Comcast were supposed to get WLIW HD today and the two subchannels. They added them but the primary WLIW is in 480i and not 1080i HD. I'm wondering if WLIW even launched its HD channel yet.


----------



## SnellKrell

WLIW - 21.1 gave up its HD service a few years ago.


All of the station's current digital transmission is in SD.


I've heard that HD may be coming back.


Doubt if things are going to change until at the earliest the June 12 transition.


The economy isn't helping things!!!


----------



## sansri88

HD is coming back. Comcast was supposed to add WLIW HD today.


----------



## StudioTech

If Comcast does add something today, it's only gonna be in SD cuz that's all WLIW is transmitting at this point.


----------



## sansri88




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16267358
> 
> 
> If Comcast does add something today, it's only gonna be in SD cuz that's all WLIW is transmitting at this point.



That's what I suspected, and that's why I came here to see if you OTAers were getting it in SD still. They added it in SD on EIA ch 109 here. I presume it'll get switched to HD whenever WLIW HD starts broadcasting because they've set up the QAM in a way that they have room to switch WLIW SD to WLIW HD without an impact on PQ.


----------



## StudioTech

Well I don't get it OTA.(I live too far away) Cablevision, carries the channel, along with the subchannels and I get it thru QAM and if/when WLIW makes the change, it would show up instantly on CV's system.


----------



## LenL

Interestingly enough my mom can't get 13.1 but she does get WLIW from her location which is surprising to me since she is 1/2 mile from me but has better line of sight.


However she is going through an RCA box to her analog TV so I can't help you with the question about whether WLIW is HD unless there is a way I can tell.


----------



## mikepier

I get WLIW+subs OTA and all of it is SD, no HD.


----------



## SnellKrell

Once again, currently, WLIW is not transmitting in HD!


----------



## hancox

only wish it would - it's the only PBS signal I get with reasonable reliability.


----------



## Trip in VA

I read on another board that WNYZ-LD 6 is on the air, mapped to 1-1. With the FM audio also occupying channel 6. Ouch, my head.


Can anyone see the digital signal? Or, in a related question, has the signal of 87.7 suffered any?


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Just tried "Pulse 87" on FM - it tunes in at 87.75 - reception same as it was a few weeks ago when it was first brought to my attention - relatively strong and quite listenable.


Cannot pick up 1-1, although the transmission point is quite close to where I live - but I'm surrounded by tall building and no L-O-S.


Hope this helps!


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16274033
> 
> 
> Cannot pick up 1-1, although the transmission point is quite close to where I live - but I'm surrounded by tall building and no L-O-S.



I recall that you were unable to find a signal on analog 6 a few weeks ago. Perhaps this is why (digital).


If they are really broadcasting a dual analog/digital signal on 6, I would be interested in seeing if anyone can actually receive both.


I found this info on WNYZ-LP's License to Cover filing from November (bold emphasis added):



> Quote:
> THE FACILITY WAS CONSTRUCTED AS AUTHORIZED IN THE UNDERLYING CONSTRUCTION PERMIT. IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 74.790(G) OF THE COMMISSION'S RULES, ISLAND BROADCASTING CO. *PROVIDES AN OVER-THE-AIR VIDEO SIGNAL AT NO DIRECT CHARGE TO VIEWERS THAT IS COMPARABLE IN RESOLUTION TO THE ANALOG VIDEO SIGNAL PREVIOUSLY PROVIDED.* ACCORDINGLY, PURSUANT TO SECTION 74.790(I) OF THE COMMISSION'S RULES, ISLAND BROADCASTING CO. IS *ALSO PROVIDING AN ANCILLARY AUDIO SERVICE CONSISTENT WITH THE PUBLIC INTEREST, CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY.* THE ANCILLARY AUDIO SERVICE IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE ANALOG AUDIO SERVICE THAT THE STATION HAS PROVIDED FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS. ISLAND WILL COMPLY WITH 73.624(G) OF THE RULES WITH RESPECT TO THE ANNUAL REPORT AND PAYMENT OF FEES RELATING TO ANCILLARY SERVICES. IN THE EVENT THAT A WAIVER OF FCC RULES AND/OR POLICY IS REQUIRED FOR ISLAND BROADCASTING COMPANY TO OPERATE THE STATION AS DESCRIBED ABOVE, SUCH A WAIVER IS RESPECTFULLY REQUESTED.


 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=56043


----------



## SnellKrell

Falcon -


You're mistaken, was never able to pickup any signal on 6 - digital or analogue.


Tried various antennas - no nothing!


The only reception was via my wonderful old Revox FM tuner.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16274416
> 
> 
> You're mistaken, was never able to pickup any signal on 6 - digital or analogue.



I should have said that you were unable to find a *video* signal on analog 6. If it is broadcasting digitally, no analog video picture would appear. That's what I was trying to say.


FM 87.75 corresponds to the analog sound on TV 6, but now I'm wondering why you could receive it on the FM tuner, but not the TV tuner?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16275003
> 
> 
> FM 87.75 corresponds to the analog sound on TV 6, but now I'm wondering why you could receive it on the FM tuner, but not the TV tuner?



It's been said that the audio carrier on a TV signal will travel at a greater distance than the video. Where I live, Pulse 87 and WPVI fight each other when I'm in the car, but I can't pick up either signal on TV.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16274033
> 
> 
> Just tried "Pulse 87" on FM - it tunes in at 87.75 - reception same as it was a few weeks ago when it was first brought to my attention - relatively strong and quite listenable.
> 
> 
> Cannot pick up 1-1, although the transmission point is quite close to where I live - but I'm surrounded by tall building and no L-O-S.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!




I used to be able to get Pulse 87 realllly good so good that I could see the color bars and everything with clear audio.. Now for the past 5 months it's nothing but snow and hardly any audio now it's like the SnR ratio went down the crapper..


Also I did a rescan of channels 3 days ago at night and I can pick up the ION channel but it not a clear of a picture with lots of drop outs but the scan gave me like 3 new channels on the lineup.


Channe 2.1 still coming in at 95% channel


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16275003
> 
> 
> I should have said that you were unable to find a *video* signal on analog 6. If it is broadcasting digitally, no analog video picture would appear. That's what I was trying to say.
> 
> 
> FM 87.75 corresponds to the analog sound on TV 6, but now I'm wondering why you could receive it on the FM tuner, but not the TV tuner?



I wonder the same as well :-/


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16278387
> 
> 
> I wonder the same as well :-/



Maybe a ton of channel 5 strength is making channel 6 reception impossible there.


The FM receiver would deal with this problem much better than a TV set.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16275316
> 
> 
> It's been said that the audio carrier on a TV signal will travel at a greater distance than the video. Where I live, Pulse 87 and WPVI fight each other when I'm in the car, but I can't pick up either signal on TV.



The following is the FCC contour for WNYZ-LP. It appears to be understated by a significant amount, but it has a null towards WPVI as well.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...TX1229981.html 


If you don't mind providing your location (city), I would be interested in seeing where these two are interfering with each other.


Out West, in the South Orange County and North San Diego County areas, the low power 6 station station in LA frequently interferes with full power XETV 6's audio, being broadcast from South of the border. The LA station is in Spanish and the Tijuana station is in English, so it's easy to tell when it changes. The volume level on XETV is also much lower.


Back to WNYZ-LP, no one is able to get the (apparent) DTV signal on 6? That's a good point about WNYW/5 blocking it out. Perhaps we will have to wait until June to see how effective DTV 6 is for WNYZ-LP.


----------



## dougwix

How come analog TV now suffers from the lip sync problem? Are broadcasters trying to wean us away from reality and into the digital realm?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dougwix* /forum/post/16289921
> 
> 
> How come analog TV now suffers from the lip sync problem? Are broadcasters trying to wean us away from reality and into the digital realm?



The analog broadcast comes from a digital microwave the feeds the digital transmitter & also down converted & feeds the analog transmitter. Thus the problem will show up on both


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/16278502
> 
> 
> Maybe a ton of channel 5 strength is making channel 6 reception impossible there.
> 
> 
> The FM receiver would deal with this problem much better than a TV set.



Not sure since those channels are both analog and channel 5 I don't think has increased the analog strength.


----------



## dvdchance

Does anyone else have a problem with the audio on 2.1? I get nothing from centre channel, all the voices are now coming from the two fronts. Not sure when this started, but I'm pretty sure it was sometime last week.


----------



## kousikb

I don't watch CBS much (usually FOX or ABC because wife doesn't like all these crime shows). But yesterday, I was watching Mentalist and I too noticed this problem off and on. It was not consistent though. I thought it may be something to do with their broadcast.


----------



## martianpete

All I get is problems these days. I used to get everything perfectly. Then the combiner went down and nothing is the same. I have a freaking antenna on my roof in the highest point in Brooklyn facing the Empire State Building and I have problems with all of the NBC channels, 9.1, the WNET group 13.1 etc, and the Ion group of channels. Anyone else in my boat? This wasn't like this previously. I enjoyed watching tv and now it stinks!


----------



## SnellKrell

Since the outage on the Combiner, all channels are about the same with the exception of WPIX-DT - this channel is registering somewhat lower on my "signal" meter.


----------



## SubaruB4

yeah I have the same issue with 9.1 for the time being I can watch my show which also shows up on 5.1 at the same time with less if any break ups.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *martianpete* /forum/post/16262597
> 
> 
> I have been having problems with 4.1, 4.2 & 4.4 for the last week and 1/2. Don't know if that helps but I think something is going on. It's been driving me nuts.



The 4.4 is the best addition on TV, for the hockey from Switzerland I will have to remove my current box since it has only Now-Next EPG, and go to 12hours EPG of my iNet1921.

My current Coship APT automatically changes from lost signals on vhf and goes to uhf assigned spots, if you get No Signal dialog box, try to go for the (virtual)station you can get printout from www.tvfool.com . wnbc4-1.2.4 is also on 28; WABC7-1.2.3. on ch.45; 2.1-56.1 etc.

What happen is this, punch in 9WOR the box goes to 38-1 retrieves the signal then transfer to 9-1,2 as you see on TV in less than 1 second.

Every time I loose signal on WNET13-1.2.3-Vme it goes by itself to 61-4,5,6 then transfers the signal back to 13-1,2,3

Incidentally, on Manual Search/Scan all channels from 1-23 and 62-69 are empty, 24is25-1.2; all vhf have already asigned ch. spots on uhf, you hear on TV telling you to rescan in June, so if your box is unable to find the desired ch. then punch in vhf ch. you want, see what happens.

Use also Channel Edit but the best way is Manual Search/Scan from 1-69 and move the rab.ears Ant. for each ch.(6-1 by itself transferred to 1-1, though it is impossible to get signal)


----------



## SubaruB4

wow they must be doing work... I have a lot of channels with no signal...


the only channel that works with 90% signal is 2.1


the channels with no signal is:


5.1

7.1

9.1



poor signal on 11.1


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16321521
> 
> 
> wow they must be doing work... I have a lot of channels with no signal...
> 
> 
> the only channel that works with 90% signal is 2.1
> 
> 
> the channels with no signal is:
> 
> 
> 5.1
> 
> 7.1
> 
> 9.1
> 
> 
> 
> poor signal on 11.1



Definitely they are doing some work. I had to reorient my antenna to get 5.1 stable. Others are fine as of now.


----------



## SnellKrell

And 5.1 has its own antenna having absolutely nothing to do with the Combiner stations - 2.1, 4.1, 7.1., 9.1, 11.1, 13.1 and their sub-channels.


Go figure!


----------



## StudioTech

Well it appears that sometime this morning, WABC+ (7-2) switched to 720p in preparation for its transformation to Live Well HD in a few days. It also appears that both 7-1 and 7-2 seems to be split evenly at 6 mbps!
























I can just imagine the complaints coming soon about why Ch. 7's picture looks softer now.


----------



## dvdchance

When did WNJU-DT 47.1 start broadcasting in 1080i? Just noticed it now.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16324142
> 
> 
> And 5.1 has its own antenna having absolutely nothing to do with the Combiner stations - 2.1, 4.1, 7.1., 9.1, 11.1, 13.1 and their sub-channels.
> 
> 
> Go figure!



Makes completely sense then. For me only 5.x was giving problem. We had to watch American Idol at 9.2. I haven't checked today though.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16325983
> 
> 
> When did WNJU-DT 47.1 start broadcasting in 1080i? Just noticed it now.



A couple of weeks ago. I think today is supposed to be their first regularly scheduled non-upconverted HD transmission.


- Trip


----------



## pmodug

What happened to wliw 21-2, 21-3, 21-4?

I used to get these channels ota across the sound in CT.

Are they still broadcasting or do I have an Attenna or HR20 issue?

Thanks.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16325125
> 
> 
> Well it appears that sometime this morning, WABC+ (7-2) switched to 720p in preparation for its transformation to Live Well HD in a few days. It also appears that both 7-1 and 7-2 seems to be split evenly at 6 mbps!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can just imagine the complaints coming soon about why Ch. 7's picture looks softer now.



Its a Stat Muxed signal. I ran through a TS Reader and saw 10.4 for 7-1, 5.3 for 7-2, and 2.0 for 7-3. It fluctuates based on content. I'm sure priority is given to 7-1.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmodug* /forum/post/16327842
> 
> 
> What happened to wliw 21-2, 21-3, 21-4?
> 
> I used to get these channels ota across the sound in CT.
> 
> Are they still broadcasting or do I have an Attenna or HR20 issue?
> 
> Thanks.



Do a rescan. They changed the PSIP info to 21-1, 21-2, 21-3



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/16328685
> 
> 
> Its a Stat Muxed signal. I ran through a TS Reader and saw 10.4 for 7-1, 5.3 for 7-2, and 2.0 for 7-3. It fluctuates based on content. I'm sure priority is given to 7-1.



Thanks. I don't have TS Reader so I recorded each stream and played them thru VLC this morning when the news was on and that's what I came up with at the time.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16329159
> 
> 
> Do a rescan. They changed the PSIP info to 21-1, 21-2, 21-3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I don't have TS Reader so I recorded each stream and played them thru VLC this morning when the news was on and that's what I came up with at the time.



You are welcome. Sometimes they are in the 6 range (7-1 & 7-2), but I guess that was all needed at the time. True test will be during NBA this weekend.


How do you see data rate via VLC?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/16328685
> 
> 
> Its a Stat Muxed signal. I ran through a TS Reader and saw 10.4 for 7-1, 5.3 for 7-2, and 2.0 for 7-3. It fluctuates based on content. I'm sure priority is given to 7-1.



So you have TSReader? Which stations can you receive from your location?


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/16329630
> 
> 
> How do you see data rate via VLC?



Tools --> Media Information and then click the Statistics tab


----------



## raj2001

Wow all of these goings on and my antenna is down.


Have no fear, it is going back up this weekend and will be joined by a second stacked CM4228.


16 elements of DTV grooviness.


----------



## dvdchance

What kind of programming will the new WABC 7.2 channel have? Any links to their schedule?


----------



## SnellKrell

This is currently on Wikipedia:




Live Well HD Network is an upcoming home, health and lifestyle high definition digital subchannel network owned by Disney-ABC Television Group that will premiere on April 27, 2009, and broadcast in 720p. Currently, carriage of the network seems to be confined to all of ABC's owned and operated stations on their Plus-branded subchannels (for instance, WABC-DT2 in New York), and carriage of the network has been picked up in high definition by Comcast's Houston, Texas system [1] and Cablevision's New York/Tri-State systems.[2] All of the other ABC O&O's are confirmed to air LWHDN on their region's majority cable systems according to the network's site, however it is unknown if the network on those stations will be carried in HD or in 480i standard definition.


According to the programming schedules for the subchannels which will carry the network, it will not be a strict 24/7 channel; the stations will mix Live Well HD's various programming in with the existing schedules of their Plus channels, which usually feature each station's local newscasts aired on a delayed basis, local weather information, and ABC O&O local programming such as KGO-TV's View from the Bay.


----------



## icemannyr

I'm not going to Live Well with the crappy PQ on WABC-DT 7.1.









All the heavy filtering on GMA and The View with the lower bit rate makes the PQ look even worse.

I can't wait to check how bad Dancing With The Stars and The NBA Playoffs look.


----------



## SnellKrell

When you have older women as the big names/big influence on shows, you're going to

get very soft HD pictures - especially the close-ups.


It all started, interestingly enough in SD, with Dan Rather and Mike Wallace at CBS!


----------



## StudioTech

Here's the LWHD webiste:

http://livewellhd.com/story?id=6777600 


Looks very similar to how the ABC O&O web pages are set up


----------



## SnellKrell

7.2 is now transmitting HD produced programming in WS.


The audio appears to be a bit "rubbery" vs. that on 7.1.


Unless the ABC engineers have some magic up their corporate sleeves and have found

a way to preserve the quality of 7.1's picture while giving us HD on two channels, this is a very misguided decision.


Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should!!!!


----------



## StudioTech

And if this venture winds up being successful in their eyes, look out. You'll see other station groups, even the ones doing 1080i doing something similar.


----------



## SnellKrell

Save us from these corporate idiots!


----------



## reddice

The PQ on WABC-HD now looks soft and very compressed. The worse looking HD channel. I though they would have gotten rid of 7.2 but instead they make that a HD channel that most of the time will be showing nothing but infomercials like it does now. 7.1 use to look good at 720p but now it is soft dull colors and very compressed. :mad


----------



## StudioTech

The other questions is why have 7-3 (Accu-Weather), when they *never promote it!* Say what you want about NBC's Weather Plus but at least it was promoted on every weather cast before NBC bought the Weather Channel.


----------



## seamus21514

*Before:*
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9103/...napshot893.jpg 
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/548/e...apshot1075.jpg 

*After:*
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/460...apshot1115.jpg 
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/125...apshot1122.jpg 


WABC-DT looks like 16:9 SD now...


----------



## andgarden

Yup. Comparing the Today show and Good Morning America is just sad. GMA looks like internet video.


All of this for an HD infomercial channel?


----------



## mikepier

When I look up tv listings online on imdb.com, it says for Cablevision LI, CH 729 is WABCDT-2 which is Live Well. Although some channels were added last night (AEHD,HistHD), I do not get 729. So I'm assuming they are going to add this soon.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16339255
> 
> 
> When I look up tv listings online on imdb.com, it says for Cablevision LI, CH 729 is WABCDT-2 which is Live Well. Although some channels were added last night (AEHD,HistHD), I do not get 729. So I'm assuming they are going to add this soon.



Technically, it's already there on 107 (or whatever ABC+ is on in your area) If you tune to it, the HD indicator lights up. They're moving that to 729 on Monday.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16340429
> 
> 
> Technically, it's already there on 107 (or whatever ABC+ is on in your area) If you tune to it, the HD indicator lights up. They're moving that to 729 on Monday.



Yeah your right, it is 107 and it is HD, although I don't know if they have a lot of HD programming.

Hopefully they'll add ION HD soon too.


----------



## reddice

WABC-DT OTA does not look much better than the Dish Network feed. I use to watch it more OTA because of the better PQ but now even the Dish Network feed has better PQ. I am not pleased. They should have just gotten rid of 7.2 or not make it 720p and left it at 480i. Now WABC-DT OTA looks worse than internet video because I have some HD internet video and it looks much better. Everyone please call or write to WABC and tell them that you have these big HDTV's and the PQ looks like SD. I only have a 32" 1080p HDTV and I notice it right away during Lost. I said it must just be ABC having PQ issues until I found out that 7.2 infomercial garbage channel is at 720p. I can just image how bad it would look on a 52" 1080p HDTV.


----------



## StudioTech

The complaints are going to grow much larger tomorrow when those NBA games air.


----------



## SnellKrell

The only way to possibly change this idiotic waste of bandwidth is not just complaining on this Forum but directly to WABC.


----------



## StudioTech

Unfortunately, this idea came straight from Disney and is going to happen at all the O&Os. Chicago and Philly have already changed.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16341836
> 
> 
> WABC-DT OTA does not look much better than the Dish Network feed. I use to watch it more OTA because of the better PQ but now even the Dish Network feed has better PQ. I am not pleased. They should have just gotten rid of 7.2 or not make it 720p and left it at 480i. Now WABC-DT OTA looks worse than internet video because I have some HD internet video and it looks much better. Everyone please call or write to WABC and tell them that you have these big HDTV's and the PQ looks like SD. I only have a 32" 1080p HDTV and I notice it right away during Lost. I said it must just be ABC having PQ issues until I found out that 7.2 infomercial garbage channel is at 720p. I can just image how bad it would look on a 52" 1080p HDTV.



Wow where to start. My aunt does not have a LCD HD and can not see a difference in PQ. That said she is happy to have another channel to watch (soon). I do agree that the crapppy new programing does not deserve HD and at most SD. Especially if this new channel takes away PQ from the main channel which makes all the revenues. Even if 7.2 was going to be 24/7 old movies it does not deserve HD.


Question: IS 7.1 in 1080p? Or was it reduced to 720p?


They should make ALL subs 480p or SD


I would have to agree here.


Does this change the quality on Cable systems? Or do they have more space to make high quality?


----------



## SnellKrell

7.1 has always been 720p from day one.


Most of the large cable systems receive their signals from the major stations by way of fiber optic connections - therefore, there should not be a diminishing of quality.


Those systems getting their signal O-T-A will suffer with a poorer picture - this is how, I believe, the satellite providers are fed.


----------



## andgarden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16342594
> 
> 
> Most of the large cable systems receive their signals from the major stations by way of fiber optic connections - therefore, there should not be a diminishing of quality.



TWC, at least, does not appear to reencode. They take what they get from the local, whether it comes from fiber or OTA. You think WABC bought a special encoder for the cable cos?


707 looks newly terrible in S. Manhattan, FWIW.


----------



## easternncnewswat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16342414
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, this idea came straight from Disney and is going to happen at all the O&Os. Chicago and Philly have already changed.



So has RDU's WTVD and it looks like crap... Didn't mind 1HD and 2SD subs, but 2HD and 1SD subs looks like ass! JMHO


----------



## mikepier

There is absolutely nothing on this new Live Well channels that interests me, so why make 7.1 suffer in PQ. When I was watching Harry Potter last night, the PQ did not seems as good.


----------



## -Sandro-

They confused MPEG-2 with MPEG-4 AVC in terms of bitrate! Anyway I can't believe that ABC will broadcast their programs that way from now on, it's unwatchable


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *-Sandro-* /forum/post/16344152
> 
> 
> They confused MPEG-2 with MPEG-4 AVC in terms of bitrate! Anyway I can't believe that ABC will broadcast their programs that way from now on, it's unwatchable



Their money maker is 7.1. Any sub is not going to generate the cash as the main station. If they make the PQ so bad that people stop watching ABC as much. Then they got a BIG problem.


All Subs should be SD imo.


----------



## StudioTech

There are those that say there should be any subs at all, like CBS does with its O&Os.


----------



## johnosolis

Right now, WNJU-DT 47.1 Telemundo OTA is broadcasting Monday's episode of WWE RAW with the Spanish-language soundtrack. That's great, cause my family can't get the SAP audio when it airs on TWC's USA HD channel, even though the opening credits metion that SAP is available.


Unfortunately, Telemundo is showing that HD programming in 4:3 SD upconverted to 1080i.


I guess they aren't prepared to receive the HD feed. Shame. You'd think they'd try to increase HD programming. So far it's only like 2 hours of soap operas each week in HD. I haven't seen an HD commercial either.


----------



## SnellKrell

The other evening, 47.1 had an HD telecast of the Billboard Latin Music Awards from Coral Gables, Florida.


----------



## lexus2108

Ok this if for the people who get 11.2 LATV from NYC AND use a DTVpal.


As you might of know there was no audio on this channel for many many months. Well Audio is now back.


----------



## reddice

7.2 right now is showing Paid Programming and then even more Paid Programming. So now we have terrible PQ on the main channel so that stupid horrible waste ridden I wish would just die infomercials can be at 720p and not one infomercial is even in HD. How much of Live Well HD programing will there actually be about a few hours a day with the rest Paid Programming crud.


By the way Dish Network carries about 10 24/7 Paid Programming all the time waste of space channels.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16350863
> 
> 
> 7.2 right now is showing Paid Programming and then even more Paid Programming. So now we have terrible PQ on the main channel so that stupid horrible waste ridden I wish would just die infomercials can be at 720p and not one infomercial is even in HD. How much of Live Well HD programing will there actually be about a few hours a day with the rest Paid Programming crud.
> 
> 
> By the way Dish Network carries about 10 24/7 Paid Programming all the time waste of space channels.



How hard could it be to put in a nice 24/7 SD old movie channel? With Ads


----------



## LegoMania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *martianpete* /forum/post/16311990
> 
> 
> All I get is problems these days. I used to get everything perfectly. Then the combiner went down and nothing is the same. I have a freaking antenna on my roof in the highest point in Brooklyn facing the Empire State Building and I have problems with all of the NBC channels, 9.1, the WNET group 13.1 etc, and the Ion group of channels. Anyone else in my boat? This wasn't like this previously. I enjoyed watching tv and now it stinks!



I'm up in Washington Heights and the exact same thing is going on with me. I can get the analog channels just fine, but the digital signals which all used to be picture perfect are now completely unwatchable. Does anyone know who we can complain to? Should I try 311?


----------



## SnellKrell

"Should I try 311?"


New York City has absolutely nothing to do with whether you get good reception or any reception. The places to complain are the stations and the FCC.


Do you really want to clog the 311 telephone lines when people are worried about

Swine Flu?


----------



## LegoMania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16353086
> 
> 
> "Should I try 311?"
> 
> 
> New York City has absolutely nothing to do with whether you get good reception or any reception. The places to complain are the stations and the FCC.
> 
> 
> Do you really want to clog the 311 telephone lines when people are worried about
> 
> Swine Flu?



Maybe people won't be clogging the 311 lines if they can get a proper OTA signal so they can watch the news. In fact, one of the important purposes of OTA is to disseminate news and important public announcements.


----------



## LenL

If the OTA digital issues are not resolved by 6/12 there will be a lot of complaints from many people in the NY City area about the lousy reception. I have seen great reception as good as cable and bad reception where it is unwatchable and for the most part it is bad now. I don't know what they are doing with the transmitters and I don't care. The fact is it should have been getting better as we get closer to the cutoff and instead it is getting worse. Perhaps they are trying to drive people away from OTA. Sure looks like it to me.


I know some people are still getting great reception but there are many of us who see it going backwards.


I am trying my darndest to dump cable but after spending close to $300 on an antenna, amplifier, installation etc. it looks like OTA is not going to be a suitable alternative. I feel really sorry for everyone who is in the same boat as I am. I will see how things go on and after 6/12 but I have little faith in those engineers at the ESB and the people paying them.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16355767
> 
> 
> If the OTA digital issues are not resolved by 6/12 there will be a lot of complaints from many people in the NY City area about the lousy reception. I have seen great reception as good as cable and bad reception where it is unwatchable and for the most part it is bad now. I don't know what they are doing with the transmitters and I don't care. The fact is it should have been getting better as we get closer to the cutoff and instead it is getting worse. Perhaps they are trying to drive people away from OTA. Sure looks like it to me.
> 
> 
> I know some people are still getting great reception but there are many of us who see it going backwards.
> 
> 
> I am trying my darndest to dump cable but after spending close to $300 on an antenna, amplifier, installation etc. it looks like OTA is not going to be a suitable alternative. I feel really sorry for everyone who is in the same boat as I am. I will see how things go on and after 6/12 but I have little faith in those engineers at the ESB and the people paying them.



Ok stupid question time. You got the right antenna for your area? It is facing the right way. I seen posts where people faced it 180 degrees wrong way.


----------



## POWERFUL

^Really? I though everyone knew to put the small end of the antenna towards the signal they want to receive.


----------



## -Sandro-

Is ABC's 720p bitrate still low?


----------



## 2VW

I'm located 52 miles from Empire near Toms River NJ. All the combiner signals are as good as they ever were except 13.1. My antenna is 100 foot ASL with a good preamp.


Last time signals were weak was the weekend where Empire was using the lower antenna a few weeks back. Things went right back to normal the following Monday morning.


The point is if there are problems line of sight to Empire it's time for an equipment check on the receiving end. If the antenna was spec'd and installed professionally consider contacting the installer to see what they think. If you are using a preamp try removing it or reducing gain is so equipped. It could be overloaded.


BTW, there are some good conditions right now and later today for TVDX.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *-Sandro-* /forum/post/16358040
> 
> 
> Is ABC's 720p bitrate still low?



Yes it is. Dancing with the Stars looks like crud. Lots of pixelation and washed out colors. All this for a wasteful HD infomercial channel.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/16357958
> 
> 
> ^Really? I though everyone knew to put the small end of the antenna towards the signal they want to receive.



Not true. Most amateurs. Me included would think the bigger end faces the towers. Not true


I read a whole 10 page thing on here about a guy who did just that. People here asked for pictures and explained he had it backwards.


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16358219
> 
> 
> Yes it is. Dancing with the Stars looks like crud. Lots of pixelation and washed out colors. All this for a wasteful HD infomercial channel.



No kidding....I noticed the basketball game on Sunday looked like crap and thought it was just a one time event.


Shame on WABC for doing this.


7.1 now looks like CRAP! This a huge step backwards. They might as well go back to SD.


Booooo!!!!


----------



## SnellKrell

John -


Just wondering, what's the size of your screen?


The larger the screen the worse the bit-starved picture will look.


----------



## mikepier

I'm watching Dancing with the Stars and it looks like the picture goes out of focus like every couple of seconds or so. Its a lot worse on 7.2 on the LiveWell channel. Is this because of the sub taking up bandwidth?

When I go to my Cablevision feed I do not see it. So is this only an OTA isue?


Update: I just checked my other HDTV with a seperate OTA antenna, and I do not see this happening, so apparantly it's just my set-up on my den TV, something is causing inteference.


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16359945
> 
> 
> Not true. Most amateurs. Me included would think the bigger end faces the towers. Not true
> 
> 
> I read a whole 10 page thing on here about a guy who did just that. People here asked for pictures and explained he had it backwards.



That is just too funny. I went back and read that. If you hadn't told me about that I would have thought it to be unbelievable.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/16361840
> 
> 
> That is just too funny. I went back and read that. If you hadn't told me about that I would have thought it to be unbelievable.



Well that is why I said stupid question and asked him if it was facing right way? Small side toward towers


----------



## POWERFUL

One time in the late 1990's, we had a big windy storm and the antenna on my roof was turned around, small side facing east. I have no rotor (I know such a stupid omission on my part) so I had to get on the roof, and secure it facing the right way. One neighbor walks over and mentions to me that my antenna is facing the wrong way. I asked him if he would rather come up and help out or just stand there direct me. He said he felt safer on the ground and proceeded to tell me where to move it to get the best reception. Great to know I wasn't alone in the fight for free TV. I've had to move it a few times since then for reasons we all know. And he was there helping me from the ground, telling me stories of installing antennas in the 50's through early 70's. When ever he sees me up there he's always saying, you know they make items that will rotate the antenna from the ground.


----------



## -Sandro-

What about the other ABC's stations?


----------



## SnellKrell

All of the ABC owned stations will be/are doing the same stupid thing.


It's a corporate decision.


----------



## LenL

You question is a good one but not relevant for me. I have a Channel Master CM4228 UHF antenna with a CM 7777 amp.


As I said in my post I have gone days with reception in the mid 80's and upper 90's on my meter and other days many of those channels can barely get above 60. How can that be? Such a wide variance. Reception as good or better than cable one day and not viewable a few days later? And no discernable reason such as rain, wind etc? It not like it was the rain and then when the rain goes away the great reception comes back. That does not happen.


My antenna was put up by a Pro and positioned with the aid of a compass. It has not budged.


Although I an 30 miles out and in hills there are many who are much closer that have noticed the same issues. While there are many who say they have not seen any changes. So it must be something with the digital transmission that causes these anomalies that did not happen with analog reception. I still say this will be a big complaint on and after 6/12 when many people are going to notice that the new and supposed better digital reception experience is not good for them at all.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16363236
> 
> 
> You question is a good one but not relevant for me. I have a Channel Master CM4228 UHF antenna with a CM 7777 amp.
> 
> 
> As I said in my post I have gone days with reception in the mid 80's and upper 90's on my meter and other days many of those channels can barely get above 60. How can that be? Such a wide variance. Reception as good or better than cable one day and not viewable a few days later? And no discernable reason such as rain, wind etc? It not like it was the rain and then when the rain goes away the great reception comes back. That does not happen.
> 
> 
> My antenna was put up by a Pro and positioned with the aid of a compass. It has not budged.
> 
> 
> Although I an 30 miles out and in hills there are many who are much closer that have noticed the same issues. While there are many who say they have not seen any changes. So it must be something with the digital transmission that causes these anomalies that did not happen with analog reception. I still say this will be a big complaint on and after 6/12 when many people are going to notice that the new and supposed better digital reception experience is not good for them at all.



Wow that stinks. Well I am here to help and think of things you missed.


Another Stupid question. You have a UHF antenna. What stations use VHF currently? What stations are changing in June? What antenna do you use for VHF?


Also did your installer use RG6 coax?


I wish you luck and if I remember correctly you live in 1 of the 5 burrows of NYC? If so you will be glad to know that NYC, most of the stations there are boosting power on June 12th. Also they will move the digital antenna in the better spot where the analog antenna is now.


----------



## -Sandro-




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16363075
> 
> 
> All of the ABC owned stations will be/are doing the same stupid thing.
> 
> 
> It's a corporate decision.



Crap!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16363075
> 
> 
> All of the ABC owned stations will be/are doing the same stupid thing.
> 
> 
> It's a corporate decision.



Why would they purposely hurt their main money making station? After watching a few minutes of LiveWell it is clear it is not very good. imo and does not deserve HD


----------



## mikepier

Just hooked this up yesterday. I Live 25 miles from ESB and get everything except 13.1 and 47.1 . Not bad for a cheap bowtie antenna.


----------



## John Chu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16361209
> 
> 
> John -
> 
> 
> Just wondering, what's the size of your screen?
> 
> 
> The larger the screen the worse the bit-starved picture will look.



I'm sure that's true--if we all watched TV on iPod sized screens...we would have no need for HD.










It very noticeable on my 42" screen--- ABC looks really soft.


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16368724
> 
> 
> Just hooked this up yesterday. I Live 25 miles from ESB and get everything except 13.1 and 47.1 . Not bad for a cheap bowtie antenna.



Great man, what's your strategy for June 12th and half the stations go to high VHF?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/16368990
> 
> 
> Great man, what's your strategy for June 12th and half the stations go to high VHF?



I'll have to wait and see. Actually I do get the analogs pretty good so maybe its a good indication of the reception I'll get when they do switch.

Heck I have a set of rabbit ears in my attic right now for my other HDTV and that picks up everything as well ( except 13.1, 47.1, 31.1). So who knows.


----------



## steve-avs

I'm pretty bummed about ABC's poor HD picture quality since adding Live Well HD on 7-2, so it occured to me last night that it might be interesting to compare disk usage for some shows I have stored on ny TivoHD.


For comparison purposes we'll start with some other network shows:


The Mentalist 4/28 2-1 6.66 GB

Reaper 4/28 11-1 6.52 GB

24 4/27 5-1 5.64 GB

Chuck 4/27 4-1 5.53 GB

Bones 4/23 5-1 6.54 GB

Smallville 4/23 11-1 6.52 GB

Lie to Me 4/29 5-1 6.27 GB


Now ABC:


Pushing Daisies 12/17 7-1 4.83 GB


D.Housewives 3/22 7-1 4.05 GB

D.Housewives 4/19 7-1 4.14 GB

D.Housewives 4/26 7-1 2.62 GB


Castle 4/13 7-1 4.05 GB

Castle 4/20 7-1 3.60 GB

Castle 4/27 7-1 2.34 GB


Cupid 4/14 7-1 4.72 GB

Cupid 4/28 7-1 2.74 GB


Unusuals 4/21 7-1 5.28 GB

Unusuals 4/22 7-1 2.97 GB

Unusuals 4/29 7-1 4.40 GB


Lost 4/29 7-1 4.50 GB


Grey's A. 3/26 7-1 3.23 GB

Grey's A. 4/23 7-1 2.55 GB


Personal remarks: This confirms that ABC picture quality has never been as good as the competition. I haven't yet watched any of these shows other than last night's episode of Lost and it appears it might be too painful for some of them to bother. Of note is that last night, 4/29, both The Unusuals and Lost received more bandwidth than other recent primetime shows. Lost appeared normal to me, which is good, if not great. I checked the 11:00 PM news and it looked awful, so it makes one wonder if they're going to provide more bandwidth for primetime only. I also noticed a black screen on 7-3 a bit before 11:00 PM but I don't know if that had anything to do with last night's readings.


I did send an email to ABC news on their local website, letting them know I've switched from being a longtime watcher of their local news to WCBS, because of the poor picture quality. I encourage everyone to complain and help bring them to their senses. I have no doubt that they will lose many more 7-1 viewers than they will gain with the crap they're broadcasting on 7-2. Someone should be fired.


Steve


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16363236
> 
> 
> You question is a good one but not relevant for me. I have a Channel Master CM4228 UHF antenna with a CM 7777 amp.
> 
> 
> As I said in my post I have gone days with reception in the mid 80's and upper 90's on my meter and other days many of those channels can barely get above 60. How can that be? Such a wide variance. Reception as good or better than cable one day and not viewable a few days later? And no discernable reason such as rain, wind etc? It not like it was the rain and then when the rain goes away the great reception comes back. That does not happen.
> 
> 
> My antenna was put up by a Pro and positioned with the aid of a compass. It has not budged.
> 
> 
> Although I an 30 miles out and in hills there are many who are much closer that have noticed the same issues. While there are many who say they have not seen any changes. So it must be something with the digital transmission that causes these anomalies that did not happen with analog reception. I still say this will be a big complaint on and after 6/12 when many people are going to notice that the new and supposed better digital reception experience is not good for them at all.



One suggestion, which may or may not work. At 30 miles do you really need the CM7777 pre-amp to amplify the signal? AFAIK, Morris Town is not in a fringe reception area. Its in a area where the OTA signal gets blocked by the mountains, so its more likely that you have a multipath situation because of reflections coming from different area. And I think CM4228 have sufficient gain and directivity to handle the signals without any pre-amp. At least for me, when I tried to add a Terk pre-amp after the eagle-aspen 2-bay I lost couple of channels and made things worse (I am at 33 miles from ESB, though at higher elevation than your location). So I run the antenna without any pre-amp even at 25 ft run of RG6 cable from the antenna to the TV (and with signals being further split into two.. in effect making the signal strength half to each tuner). From the posts I see here, people generally use the CM7777, if they are more than 50-55+ miles from broadcast. You can probably point your antenna towards Philly and probably get a better reception than NY with your pre-amp setup.


----------



## LenL

The installer used RG6 quadcore. Lexus I am 30 miles west of the ESB in the hills of Morris Cty.


Kousib: I think I tried early on to just hook the CM4228 in the house by a window and the reception was not too good but got better when the amp was hooked up. That was in Sept of last year so my memroy may be failing me. I could try it again with the antenna up on the roof but my problem is it is quite high up and I am chicken **** when it comes to heights. I recently got as high as the bottom of mast to hook a ground to it and that was pushing my envelope.


What I might do is simply wait till 6/12 and see what my reception is. Then maybe I can find someone not a chicken like me to unhook the amp and see what happens. For this to work the CM7777 amp has to be disconnected at the antenna.


My other alternative is at my mom's 1/2 mile east of me. Her antenna is not as high up and a little easier for me to get to. She has the same setup but going to a converter box not a HD TV. Actually speaking of her setup. She is not having any problems with the CM4228 and CM7777 reception. While she does not pull in 13.1 which is on low power she is getting WLIW 21.2 ans 21.3. Which I think is incredible.


It might be simpler to disconnect her from the amp and see what the impact is and that should be close to what will happen to me. If her reception stays the same or improves without the amp then that could be my problem. Now that the weather is getting nicer I might be able to coax one of my kids who has no fear of heights to work with me...


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LegoMania* /forum/post/16353180
> 
> 
> Maybe people won't be clogging the 311 lines if they can get a proper OTA signal so they can watch the news. In fact, one of the important purposes of OTA is to disseminate news and important public announcements.



You need to call the station or the FCC if you are calling anyone.


The only station that 311 can help with (probably) is WNYE.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16368724
> 
> 
> Just hooked this up yesterday. I Live 25 miles from ESB and get everything except 13.1 and 47.1 . Not bad for a cheap bowtie antenna.



I tried that antenna and I could only pick up stupid channel 66 and 47. I was able to get 5 and 7 but only if I held it in the air. Also the cord is too short. I am only 4 miles from the ESB and I just don't get how you can get better reception with that peace of crud much further away. I went back to my Terk HDTVi which gives me the best reception.


----------



## dvdchance

I just watched a bit of Live Well WABC-DT2. Some cooking show was on. Not only was the picture not much better then a SD picture, the audio was so out of synch it was laughable. Was almost funny in a dubbed kung-foo movie type of way.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16378746
> 
> 
> I tried that antenna and I could only pick up stupid channel 66 and 47. I was able to get 5 and 7 but only if I held it in the air. Also the cord is too short. I am only 4 miles from the ESB and I just don't get how you can get better reception with that peace of crud much further away. I went back to my Terk HDTVi which gives me the best reception.




I ran RG6 from my TV into the garage, up the corner siding and along the soffit, where I then connected a 75-300ohm transformer and hooked up the bowtie. It is 20 feet above ground. Height is a big factor for my reception. On the first floor I was getting almost nothing.


----------



## LenL

Since you have it outdoors I think you are in danger of picking up superimposed voltage from lightening in the area during a storm, voltage transients, static charges etc. If and when this happens you could FRY your TV and other electronics.


There is lots of info on the NET as to the codes that require grounding outdoor antennas and the need for it.


You are taking a big chance.


----------



## reddice

Never tried the bowtie outdoors. I would have probably gotten better reception but I can't not run it outside because we have new windows and I can't run any lines through the windows.


I noticed the main channel 7 looks better yesterday. The colors are sharper and richer. Still I would have wanted that 7.2 infomercial channel gone instead in 720p.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16379902
> 
> 
> Since you have it outdoors I think you are in danger of picking up superimposed voltage from lightening in the area during a storm, voltage transients, static charges etc. If and when this happens you could FRY your TV and other electronics.
> 
> 
> There is lots of info on the NET as to the codes that require grounding outdoor antennas and the need for it.
> 
> 
> You are taking a big chance.



Thanks for the advice. I figured its under the soffit not really exposed to the elements, the chances of that happening would be less than a regular antenna. I'm not sure how exactly I would ground the bowtie.


----------



## mikepier

All of a sudden now I can't get ION, and 41.1 comes in breaking up. Maybe something to do with the recent rain? I was getting a strong signal a few days ago.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16211570
> 
> 
> Don't know if others have this problem. ABC channel 7-1,7-2, 7-3 are now coming over as 72-1, 72-2, 72-3
> 
> 
> This has happened before on other stations and has corrected itself.
> 
> 
> Anyone know if this is something with ABC? Or with my converter box DTVPAL (don't think so)
> 
> 
> thanks



My iNet or Coship would have put WABC7-1 into 45-1,2,3 that is the place for ABC, any number above 69 the box returns to last posted number

under 69. As long you get the signal video-audio at 72- I would not worry,

but it seems the box is running amok for 7-1 should find path to 45-1.

The Coship Manual scan-search shows 1-23 and 62-69 ch.empty so there

is nothing above 62 much less 69, I think your TV tuner is running on cable 2-125 and it may have confused your dtvPAL.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/16385505
> 
> 
> My iNet or Coship would have put WABC7-1 into 45-1,2,3 that is the place for ABC, any number above 69 the box returns to last posted number
> 
> under 69. As long you get the signal video-audio at 72- I would not worry,
> 
> but it seems the box is running amok for 7-1 should find path to 45-1.
> 
> The Coship Manual scan-search shows 1-23 and 62-69 ch.empty so there
> 
> is nothing above 62 much less 69, I think your TV tuner is running on cable 2-125 and it may have confused your dtvPAL.



Fixed this long ago. Thanks for the reply though. Seems to be a DTVpal issue. A full rescan did the trick.


Funny you think that. I do have the analog tv in cable mode using an OTA antenna. Reason was we picked up extra stations


----------



## LegoMania

For some reason today my OTA Digital TV is coming in just fine. Anyone experiencing something similar? Did some maintenance/upgrading occur on the transmitting equipment?


----------



## SnellKrell

No work on the ESB from what I've been told.


You're being way too logical trying to find reasons for changes in your reception.


You're dealing with temperature, rain, humidity and God knows what else.


It can drive you crazy!!!!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16383796
> 
> 
> All of a sudden now I can't get ION, and 41.1 comes in breaking up. Maybe something to do with the recent rain? I was getting a strong signal a few days ago.



Must have been the rain cause now I have it back.


----------



## reddice

Can never get now anyway ION, 41.1, 2 and 13.


----------



## StudioTech

WPXN-DT (ION) went 720p today (5/5). TSReader shows it's been averaging about 10mb for the main channel, 2.5mb each for .2 and .3 and just under 2mb for .4


The picture looks surprisingly decent on the main channel.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16405473
> 
> 
> WPXN-DT (ION) went 720p today (5/5). TSReader shows it's been averaging about 10mb for the main channel, 2.5mb each for .2 and .3 and just under 2mb for .4
> 
> 
> The picture looks surprisingly decent on the main channel.



Once the rain stops, I'll be able to check it out.


----------



## reddice

Too bad I can't check it out as I can't even get a blimp of a picture for WPXN-DT.


Also channel 7 looks horrible again. All compressed and the Live Well channel is a big waste. Like one infomercial. All this so the main channel could look terrible. No one is going to watch Live Well so why does there main channel have too look bad.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16405473
> 
> 
> WPXN-DT (ION) went 720p today (5/5). TSReader shows it's been averaging about 10mb for the main channel, 2.5mb each for .2 and .3 and just under 2mb for .4
> 
> 
> The picture looks surprisingly decent on the main channel.



I like 31.2 Qubo for the kids, 31.3 ION life is ok, but that worship channel 31.4 has to go.


----------



## dvdchance

Does WPXN have any programs in HD though? The mostly run 70's and 80's sitcom and drama reruns from what I see when I click thru.


----------



## SnellKrell

Checked out station last night and "Boston Legal" was there in HD and not looking bad at all.


In fact, better than WABC-DT (7.1) since the station's latest idiocy!


----------



## johnosolis

Anyone else notice that WPXO-LP, Caribevision, which normally broadcasts Spanish-language programming, has, since at least yesterday, been broadcasting a test pattern with a text crawl, in Spanish, saying:


"We are sorry for being off the air due to that we are changing our analog transmitter to digital. Soon, you will be able to enjoy our programming with the best digital quality. Muchas Gracias."


Being an "LP" (Low power) station, they are not required to meet the June 12th deadline, but it seems they have plans to do so.


BTW, if you are showing a test pattern, you are not "off the air"; you have merely suspended programming.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16407839
> 
> 
> Checked out station last night and "Boston Legal" was there in HD and not looking bad at all.
> 
> 
> In fact, better than WABC-DT (7.1) since the station's latest idiocy!



Good to know thanks. One of the challenges of working overnights is that your not really up to date on the latest goings on of some stations. During the day it's kinda a wasteland.


Too bad it isn't still Classic Sports like it was a few (5 or so) years ago.


----------



## johnosolis

Something is going on at WXTV-DT 41.1 Univision. Up until yesterday, they were broadcasting at 480i. Today I checked and it was 720p. Then I checked back just before posting this message and it's at 1080i.


The did say they would be ready to broadcast the World Cup games in HD. Those games start in June 2010.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/16409706
> 
> 
> Something is going on at WXTV-DT 41.1 Univision. Up until yesterday, they were broadcasting at 480i. Today I checked and it was 720p. Then I checked back just before posting this message and it's at 1080i.
> 
> 
> The did say they would be ready to broadcast the World Cup games in HD. Those games start in June 2010.



Wow.. FIFA World Cup 2010 in HD.. nice.. I wish they broadcast a separate English audio stream or English CC taking adavantage of the digital technology to broaden their viewer base.


----------



## reddice

Also never able to get WXTV-DT 41 so I can't check out that station either. Don't understand since I am only 4 miles away from the transmitters but I can get stations further away easier. Now most of the stations are in HD except for channels 25 WNYE which the strollers says that they will be in HD and channel 66 WFME which will always be in cruddy 480i.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/16409706
> 
> 
> Something is going on at WXTV-DT 41.1 Univision. Up until yesterday, they were broadcasting at 480i. Today I checked and it was 720p. Then I checked back just before posting this message and it's at 1080i.
> 
> 
> The did say they would be ready to broadcast the World Cup games in HD. Those games start in June 2010.



Well they went back to 480 so I guess it was just a test for now.


----------



## mikepier

Yesterday was a decent day weather wise, and I still can't get ION 31.1, so I don't know by them switching to 720P affected the transmission of their signal or not, because I used to get them before the HD switch.


----------



## SnellKrell

The switch to HD should not affect your ability to receive the station.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16411512
> 
> 
> Also never able to get WXTV-DT 41 so I can't check out that station either. Don't understand since I am only 4 miles away from the transmitters but I can get stations further away easier. Now most of the stations are in HD except for channels 25 WNYE which the strollers says that they will be in HD and channel 66 WFME which will always be in cruddy 480i.



Reddice if you have not already tried this, is there another tuner you can try?( another ATSC TV, converter box) Perhaps maybe the tuner on your TV is defective or loading down the signal? Just trying to eliminate possiblities.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16411512
> 
> 
> Also never able to get WXTV-DT 41 so I can't check out that station either. Don't understand since I am only 4 miles away from the transmitters but I can get stations further away easier. Now most of the stations are in HD except for channels 25 WNYE which the strollers says that they will be in HD and channel 66 WFME which will always be in cruddy 480i.



Hey Reddice,


I've been following your ongoing difficulties for a few months now, and I'm keeping my eyes out for a solution for you. I'm wondering how many other stations are very close to you. We already have a pretty good idea that you're severely affected by multipath, but now I'm wondering if there aren't nearby stations that are overwhelming your TV's tuners or any antenna amplifiers that you might have.


Have you ever looked at TVfool.com and made note of what stations are very close to you? If so, could you list them for us? List anything within five miles, and list the "PWR (dBm)" specification too. Also, do the same for any radio stations via FMfool.com - an overly-powerful FM radio signal can overwhelm a tuner or signal amplifier just like a strong TV signal could, and it would affect many channels, not just the nearest frequency.


Let us know. This might be another good clue about what's going on with your reception.


----------



## mikepier

Finally received ION again after re-adjusting my bowtie and doing a re-scan. It actually looks good. I was watching Lethal Weapon 3, it did not seem in OAR (2:35 according to imdb) but it still looked good.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/16407956
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that WPXO-LP, Caribevision, which normally broadcasts Spanish-language programming, has, since at least yesterday, been broadcasting a test pattern with a text crawl, in Spanish, saying:
> 
> 
> "We are sorry for being off the air due to that we are changing our analog transmitter to digital. Soon, you will be able to enjoy our programming with the best digital quality. Muchas Gracias."
> 
> 
> Being an "LP" (Low power) station, they are not required to meet the June 12th deadline, but it seems they have plans to do so.
> 
> 
> BTW, if you are showing a test pattern, you are not "off the air"; you have merely suspended programming.



Yes, CV34 Analog ceased to broadcast, and now is only digital, but

right now it shows only logo with color bars, I got it on Manual scan then

made Add on to memory, its pathway leads to ch.31.

Here is little problem, ION31 has pathway to ch.30, it retrieves the signal

1or 2 or 3 or 4 and transffers it to 31, Scan of CV34 goes to 31, thus I have

double 31 one ion31-1.2.3.4 the other 31-1.2.3.4CV34 together 8 but only 5 are functional

The first 31(30) is Ion31-1.2.3.4. the second set of 31(34) is CV34-1

which was on Analog and the rest of 31(34)-2.3.4. are empty. In June, after

reScan ION will be on ch.30 and CV on 31, permanently.

More importantly the signal is strong, this past week Univision41-increased

power and it is much easier to get their signal, I hope 47Telemundo will do

the same as 41, I wish I spoke spanish.

All the spanish broadcasts like 11-2LA(57.1inCa); 68-;41-; even 13-Vme have much stronger broadcast sound system, much better than English broad

casts, why ?


----------



## SnellKrell

"I hope 47Telemundo will do the same as 41"


47 is doing a lot. Phase I reflects the FCC's recent approval to activate a fill-in transmitter and antenna on top of the Conde Nast Building (4 Times Square) to supplement the West Orange, New Jersey tower's signal. This fill-in will help reception on the east side of Manhattan and further east Brooklyn, Queens and the rest of

Long Island.


Phase II has WNJU-DT moving its main transmission point from West Orange to very high on the Empire State Building's antenna mast. Not only the height, but also, at this point, it will be the strongest signal from the ESB.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16430376
> 
> 
> "I hope 47Telemundo will do the same as 41"
> 
> 
> 47 is doing a lot. Phase I reflects the FCC's recent approval to activate a fill-in transmitter and antenna on top of the Conde Nast Building (4 Times Square) to supplement the West Orange, New Jersey tower's signal. This fill-in will help reception on the east side of Manhattan and further east Brooklyn, Queens and the rest of
> 
> Long Island.
> 
> 
> Phase II has WNJU-DT moving its main transmission point from West Orange to very high on the Empire State Building's antenna mast. Not only the height, but also, at this point, it will be the strongest signal from the ESB.



I know I explained to my Aunt that after June 12th she will have no more problems getting 47.1. Of course I do not know why she likes it. She can not speak Spanish lol


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16430733
> 
> 
> I know I explained to my Aunt that after June 12th she will have no more problems getting 47.1. Of course I do not know why she likes it. She can not speak Spanish lol



Their primetime telenovelas include English Subtitles on CC3.


----------



## POWERFUL

Super cool. It used to be only those who couldn't speak english who watched the daytime soap operas, now if you can't speak spanish you can learn spanish watching spanish soap operas.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/16431718
> 
> 
> Their primetime telenovelas include English Subtitles on CC3.



Really I wonder if you can get cc3 on DTVpal? What is cc3? the third CC?




Hey thanks she will like that


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/16432146
> 
> 
> Super cool. It used to be only those who couldn't speak english who watched the daytime soap operas, now if you can't speak spanish you can learn spanish watching spanish soap operas.



She enjoys them. Even though she does not know Spanish.


She was so upset when the DTVpal could not get sound on LATV that has since been fixed on Stations end.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/16431718
> 
> 
> Their primetime telenovelas include English Subtitles on CC3.



Is this the same for channel 41.1?


Man you made her day. Ty


----------



## reddice

Channel 47 is one of my most strongest channels and it is one of the most furthest away from the New Jersey tower. I have a feeling that when it moves to the ESB it will be weaker for me. Channel 41 I never ever got a blimp of a picture. I tried different antennas and moved them all over the place but the highest I was able to peak the signal was around 20%. If they boosted power I still can't get it. I can't speak Spanish but my father can and he watched channel 41 but can't get nothing on my parents converter box.


----------



## jpru34

I am having serious trouble with Channel 13 today. Perhaps because of the wind??? I haven't had any issues picking up this channel in many months and I am picking up all the other channels just fine today. Perhaps they are doing work on their transmitter?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16432611
> 
> 
> Is this the same for channel 41.1?



Yes, but the only show I've seen CC3 available is _Sabado Gigante_.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16434574
> 
> 
> Yes, but the only show I've seen CC3 available is _Sabado Gigante_.



Is CC3 English subtitles only or would channel 41.1 use a different CC like 1 to 6?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16434737
> 
> 
> Is CC3 English subtitles only or would channel 41.1 use a different CC like 1 to 6?



From what I've observed, both stations use CC3 for English. Don't know if either uses CC2 for anything.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16434010
> 
> 
> Channel 47 is one of my most strongest channels and it is one of the most furthest away from the New Jersey tower. I have a feeling that when it moves to the ESB it will be weaker for me. Channel 41 I never ever got a blimp of a picture. I tried different antennas and moved them all over the place but the highest I was able to peak the signal was around 20%. If they boosted power I still can't get it. I can't speak Spanish but my father can and he watched channel 41 but can't get nothing on my parents converter box.



Ironically, I can get 41.1, but not 47.1.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16435709
> 
> 
> From what I've observed, both stations use CC3 for English. Don't know if either uses CC2 for anything.



ty


----------



## jpg7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16434010
> 
> 
> Channel 47 is one of my most strongest channels and it is one of the most furthest away from the New Jersey tower. I have a feeling that when it moves to the ESB it will be weaker for me. Channel 41 I never ever got a blimp of a picture. I tried different antennas and moved them all over the place but the highest I was able to peak the signal was around 20%. If they boosted power I still can't get it. I can't speak Spanish but my father can and he watched channel 41 but can't get nothing on my parents converter box.



Reddice, you're in Brooklyn - you will have a devil of a time getting 41. Check out the polar plot at fcc.gov (search for WXTV) of their signal - they pump almost all their signal to the north to Washington Heights and the Bronx. I have one magic spot where I can get a stable signal from them (just like with WMBC and some other channels).


I wish they would either go omnidirectional or add a fill antenna because they are the leading Spanish station.


----------



## dvdchance

Whenever I do a chanel scan lately it finds 61-9 and 61-10, but they never have any audio or video. For description it just says RF61-9 or RF61-10. What are these going to be?


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16432611
> 
> 
> Is this the same for channel 41.1?
> 
> 
> Man you made her day. Ty



The telenovelas from channel 41 cannot air with English subtitles because Univision doesn't own the rights, their primetime telenovelas are produced by Televisa from Mexico.


As of right now only Telemundo shows English subs on CC3 on their telenovelas.


Caribevision also shows English Subtitles with their Brazilian and Argentinean telenovelas (this channel is no on the air right now).


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16435709
> 
> 
> From what I've observed, both stations use CC3 for English. Don't know if either uses CC2 for anything.



On Channel 41 I've only seen them use CC3 English subs with the Latin Grammys.


----------



## Mr.H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16437956
> 
> 
> Whenever I do a chanel scan lately it finds 61-9 and 61-10, but they never have any audio or video. For description it just says RF61-9 or RF61-10. What are these going to be?



Probably a bug in your TV's firmware.


WNET broadcasts two data streams which are part of the "Update TV" service which provides firmware updates for some TVs and STBs. Your TV should not be displaying them as available channels.


----------



## jpru34

Channel 13 back up to normal signal strength......


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/16432146
> 
> 
> Super cool. It used to be only those who couldn't speak english who watched the daytime soap operas, now if you can't speak spanish you can learn spanish watching spanish soap operas.



and some wonderful women


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16437956
> 
> 
> Whenever I do a chanel scan lately it finds 61-9 and 61-10, but they never have any audio or video. For description it just says RF61-9 or RF61-10. What are these going to be?



Both of my Samsungs do this. Lets see what happens next month when the analogs are shut down. WNET will move down to channel 13 and the 61's should go away.


----------



## Trip in VA

Then the ghost streams will be on 13-9 and 13-10 and still have nothing on them for you to watch. They're safe to get rid of.


- Trip


----------



## nicoge21

What happened to the transmitters after the september 11th attacks? Did they all move to some kind of aux facility on another building?


----------



## KML-224

I thought some of them were on the Armstrong tower in New Jersey?


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.nerw.com/wtc-recovery.html 


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Take a look at this:

http://www.fybush.com/wtc-recovery.html 


This should give you an idea of what went on.


Here in the New York DMA, in many ways, we're still trying to catch up.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/16449276
> 
> 
> I thought some of them were on the Armstrong tower in New Jersey?



That was temporary.


Local townsfolk started to complain about all the "radiation."


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16449345
> 
> 
> That was temporary.
> 
> 
> Local townsfolk started to complain about all the "radiation."



Alpine is now considered a regional communications hub. That status has protected the site from neighbors complaints. The reason they didn't go for landmark status is because if that had been granted they would have been disallowed from making necessary changes such as adding and removing antennas from the tower. The issue with Alpine is that now with Conde Nast and Empire there are better altenatives for NY broadcast coverage.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16449329
> 
> 
> Take a look at this:
> 
> http://www.fybush.com/wtc-recovery.html
> 
> 
> This should give you an idea of what went on.
> 
> 
> Here in the New York DMA, in many ways, we're still trying to catch up.



A good read..


not sure if some of you watch WABC (I'm late on this) but as they were doing the weather they decided do show the people on top of the ESB a nice overhead shot with all the antennas in view.. too bad I did not have the antenna connected to my capture card.


tight for space that's for sure.


----------



## tld

Does anyone have any idea as to what time of day on 6/12 the stations are actually going to switch frequencies? From what I understand, 2-1, 7-1, 11-1, and 13-1 are all moving.


I would have figured they'd switch at midnight or some such thing, but I saw a ticker on the bottom of an ABC broadcast recently that said 12:30PM on June 12. The dtvanswers web site says "you may need to rescan your channels _after_ June 12".


I'd rather not waste my time rescanning my MythTV system before all the stations have switched. For that matter, I have to aim my antenna to Philly and rescan that as well.


Tom


----------



## reddice

I hope I can get 7, 11 and 13 on 6/12. Never got a high VHF channel. Channel 8 which is NJN affiliate I can only peak at about 10%.


----------



## LenL

Are in the same predicament as you are....waiting for 6/12 and hoping things get better. I am sort of in a holding pattern right now. Still have basic cable but also spent money on an antenna, amp and professional roof install. Some days believe it or not I have received all the NY and Jersey stations with a signal strength of 85% and better on up to close to 100%. That is better than my cable signal. Yet 90% of the time with the exception of a few channels the signal is below 70% to losing the signal completely.


I can't turn cable off unless I get better results.


Some have made some suggestions, like try it without the amp. I will be trying that but my guess is something else is causing such wild swings in reception. It appears the weather has some impact but it does not explain it all. I have had great signal strength in a wind driving snow/ice storm this past winter. I have had bad signal strength on a beautiful sunny day.


I think a lot of people will be happy on 6/12. I also think there will be a lot of mad people too! I'm not sure where I fit in this but at only 30 miles west of the ESB I should be happy....


----------



## speedlaw

This thread is a great resource. I have the ABC Subchannels turned off (note to broadcasters-I have ALL the junk subchannels turned off-just like my Sat boxes have all the trash channels "unlisted" in the Guide-if I own a DVR in order to zap commercials and I do, I'm NOT going to turn them on in a guide....).


7.1 OTA was just "not right". I thought it was my TV, which worked fine on other channels (still perfect on CBS) and with my Dish HDTV. Blu discs looked correct. 7.1 was driving me nuts.


At least now I know why...Bad Idea, ABC-Dizzney.










Many folks probably have not accounted for trees and reception. My OTA location gets NYC very well-but only in the winter do I get WNJN from Montclair, NJ. The antenna is pointed at NYC, with NJN off-axis. Signal strength drops in direct proportion to leaf density. Since SD is on channel 50 and HD on 51, it's a clean comparison.


Kind of interesting actually. In the winter, SD and HD feeds are perfectly clear. When spring comes, the SD feed goes snowy while HD stays perfect, and once threshold signal drops below, HD is lost, while SD is very, very snowy and nearly unwatchable. HD stays for most of the SD-what SD remains is not great. I don't care enough for a rotor. I can see that a fair amount of folks who get snowy SD will be happy with HD, but some folks used to a snowy SD signal will be "out of luck" come HD- at the fringes.


One thing missed by many is that putting up an antenna may not be enough. Antennas at these frequencies are funny things...in my Amateur Radio life, I raised a 2 meter antenna (think VHF-high) up 20 feet...and lost one of my repeater stations. While "as much metal as possible as high up as possible" is a good rule, moving that antenna laterally if possible and trying a few locations will oft make a big difference-there is significant multipath at the UHF frequencies that HDTV uses. Small movements can make a difference.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tld* /forum/post/16458404
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any idea as to what time of day on 6/12 the stations are actually going to switch frequencies? From what I understand, 2-1, 7-1, 11-1, and 13-1 are all moving.



The analog termination notices showed the relative times of day that analog would end. Presumably, the stations that are moving will do so soon after.:


WCBS CBS 2 - PM - to be a nightlight

WNBC NBC 4 - PM - to be a nightlight

WNYW FOX 5 - Eve

WABC ABC 7 - *PM* - to move analog to 4 Times Square building from May 2009 until 6/12/09

WWOR MyN 9 - Eve

WPIX CW 11 - Eve - Reduction - 50% as of August '08

WNET PBS 13 - *PM*

WLIW PBS 21 - Eve

WNYE ind. 25 - Eve - to be a nightlight

WPXN ion 31 - Eve

WXTV uni 41 - Eve

WNJU telem 47 - PM

WNJN PBS 50 - AM - Reduction - 75-90% of population served

WNJB PBS 58 - AM - Reduction - 75-90% of population served

WFUT telef 68 - Eve


Eve = after 6pm and before midnight. Here is an example filing:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....cility_id=9610 


However, in the LA area some have changed, so it may be the same situation for NYC. One of the local stations here listed the times of day for the VHF (analog) stations a couple weeks ago, but I have not seen anything else.


As for VHF, my experience in San Diego shows that it's much more difficult to get DTV signals on VHF than UHF in downtown/urban areas. KFMB vanished from my parents' condo last year and KGTV disappeared in February when they moved back to 10. Both had the best signals when they were on UHF. I was able to find a place outside and around the corner of the building to pick them up, but had no luck at all in the unit. To be fair, however, the old analog VHF signals were completely unwatchable.


How many other people have adopted UHF DTV signals in urban areas only to be losing some of them soon?


Oh well, as I joked with SnellKrell, all one has to do is hang a 5'+ boom from the ceiling. Someone else said they could be redesigned and disguised as a ceiling fan.


----------



## LenL

Speedlaw,


You may be right about the trees but I can't say that yet. I hooked my house up in September/08 when the trees where I am at were still full of leaves and I had some of my better days reception wise. I was very encouraged expecting that when the leaves came down in the fall my reception would get better and it did not. In fact some of my worst days for reception were in the winter even on nice dry sunny days.


So your theory may work for many people but for me it has not panned out. I had planned to remove a few trees but from what I am experiencing it would not matter.


I will wait to see what happens 6/12 and the days that follow into the coming winter and that should pretty much confirm whether trees matter for me...


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16460946
> 
> 
> Speedlaw,
> 
> 
> You may be right about the trees but I can't say that yet. I hooked my house up in September/08 when the trees where I am at were still full of leaves and I had some of my better days reception wise. I was very encouraged expecting that when the leaves came down in the fall my reception would get better and it did not. In fact some of my worst days for reception were in the winter even on nice dry sunny days.
> 
> 
> So your theory may work for many people but for me it has not panned out. I had planned to remove a few trees but from what I am experiencing it would not matter.
> 
> 
> I will wait to see what happens 6/12 and the days that follow into the coming winter and that should pretty much confirm whether trees matter for me...



Of Course. every location is different. Hams call trees "green attenuators" but I'd never cut them down. You can't assume your tree is the problem. Looking at the transmitter location for NJN, there are several ridges between me and the transmitter, so it's no doubt a cumulative effect. I just get the textbook HD vs. analog tradeoffs in my location.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/16462207
> 
> 
> Of Course. every location is different. Hams call trees "green attenuators" but I'd never cut them down. You can't assume your tree is the problem. Looking at the transmitter location for NJN, there are several ridges between me and the transmitter, so it's no doubt a cumulative effect. I just get the textbook HD vs. analog tradeoffs in my location.




Trees I can deal with. With a strong antenna & amp [if indoors like in a attic] or preamp if the antenna is out doors I can over come the loss from the trees. But steel building I can not deal with. I have an portable TV in the Kitchen. By moving down the counter I could get the stations I want. Then I went next door to help move a couch. While in there I found there was an upright freeser right in the path of my TV signal. So when I moved the tv down the counter I was getting the TV from the behind the blind spot caused by the freeser.


----------



## LenL

I love this forum too and enjoy the information being shared.


I also wish all of you posters would ADD your location like I did and a number of others on this forum have done. Seeing where you are located (even if not the detail that I gave) would help us to see the relevance of your issues or suggestions etc. Just go into your profile and update it. Also some of the experts monitoring this forum have made suggestions directed specifically for my location which they see. An added benefit of providing locations.


Thanks


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16460908
> 
> 
> The analog termination notices showed the relative times of day that analog would end. Presumably, the stations that are moving will do so soon after.:
> 
> 
> WCBS CBS 2 - PM - to be a nightlight
> 
> WNBC NBC 4 - PM - to be a nightlight
> 
> WNYW FOX 5 - Eve
> 
> WABC ABC 7 - *PM* - to move analog to 4 Times Square building from May 2009 until 6/12/09
> 
> WWOR MyN 9 - Eve
> 
> WPIX CW 11 - Eve - Reduction - 50% as of August '08
> 
> WNET PBS 13 - *PM*
> 
> WLIW PBS 21 - Eve
> 
> WNYE ind. 25 - Eve - to be a nightlight
> 
> WPXN ion 31 - Eve
> 
> WXTV uni 41 - Eve
> 
> WNJU telem 47 - PM
> 
> WNJN PBS 50 - AM - Reduction - 75-90% of population served
> 
> WNJB PBS 58 - AM - Reduction - 75-90% of population served
> 
> WFUT telef 68 - Eve



Thanks for the info! The one there that doesn't seem to make sense is 11. As I understand it, they have to vacate 33 for CBS to use, so they need VHF 11 if they're going to have a digital broadcast.


I'm still unclear on how all the changes will affect my reception, but I'm out in central NJ. My analog VHF reception was always OK. Things I've read led me to believe I should be ok, or may even get better reception....got my fingers crossed.


Tom


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16435902
> 
> 
> Ironically, I can get 41.1, but not 47.1.



We can't get 47.1 here because W36AZ (NJN) is on channel 36.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16410114
> 
> 
> Wow.. FIFA World Cup 2010 in HD.. nice.. I wish they broadcast a separate English audio stream or English CC taking adavantage of the digital technology to broaden their viewer base.



World cup 2006 was already in HD on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2.


World cup 2010 will be in HD somewhere.


----------



## LenL

Just a thought guys and gals.


How about if everyone who is interested take a signal strength reading of all the channels they receive at their locations on 6/11 and then take a second reading on 6/13 and post the results and their antenna locations on this forum?


I think the results would be both fun to see and informative.


I will try to do a reminder post a few days before 6/12.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.H* /forum/post/16442266
> 
> 
> Probably a bug in your TV's firmware.
> 
> 
> WNET broadcasts two data streams which are part of the "Update TV" service which provides firmware updates for some TVs and STBs. Your TV should not be displaying them as available channels.



Any time ch.WNET13 loses signal the conv.box finds its way to 61-,

since 13 are.1.2.3 the 61 lineup is 61-4,5.6, once signal is secured it transfers

it back to 13ch. location. You can hope only that your conv.box is ok,maybe

you should rescan your TV tuner


----------



## AloEuro

As some of you may already to know, CV 34-1 since Friday night is running shorts line up in about 10 minutes intervals continually. CV34-1 Digital


----------



## reddice

I will tell you something about CV 34. When it was on analog the picture was fuzzy but watchable. Now that it is on digital all it is a pixelated breakup mess. The signal travels much less distance.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16490313
> 
> 
> I will tell you something about CV 34. When it was on analog the picture was fuzzy but watchable. Now that it is on digital all it is a pixelated breakup mess. The signal travels much less distance.



What channel is CV 34 We don't seem to get that at all?


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...llsign=wpxo-lp 

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1119329.html 


- Trip


----------



## rothe

A few months ago, I saw multiple mentions of a pending move of the WNJB transmitting location from New Brunswick, NJ to the Empire State Building. (This was often cited along with discussion of a dispute that WABC had with the FCC and NJN regarding power levels and interference between channels 7 and 8.) But now I'm not seeing any evidence that WNJB's move will take place.


Was I remembering wrong, or did their plans change?


----------



## SnellKrell

It is not the ESB, Channel 8 will be moving to the Conde Nast Building (4 Times Square).


ABC and NJB came to an agreement.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16497330
> 
> 
> A few months ago, I saw multiple mentions of a pending move of the WNJB transmitting location from New Brunswick, NJ to the Empire State Building.



according to TVFool , WNJB is currently at the Condinast building, not New Brunswick. if you enter a zipcode in that page, it shows you a Google map with the location of all the transmitters in the area.


...which leads me to the question: why cant i receive WNJB 58.1 (NM 54.1dB; Pwr: -36.7dBm) when i can easily receive Fox 5.1 (NM 45.4dB; Pwr -45.5dBm) and NBC 4.1 (NM 48.6dB; -42.3dBm)?


i'm on 200th street and, according to www.tvfool.com , WNJB is currently on the very top of my Signal Analysis report appearing as the strongest channel, but i cant get it -- even though i get all the other channels "green" channels! i'm PBS-less! :-( i understand i cant get Thirteen 13.1 or WLIW 21.1 because they are on the yellow and red zones of my Signal report. however, i expected to, at least, get WNJB.


i'm using an indoor antena i made myself. is anyone from the Wash Heights/Inwood area getting WNJB 58.1?


P.S.: i just realized something. WNJB is the only "green" channel on my Signal report that is broadcasting in VHF. its actual channel is 8. maybe that's why i don get it.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNJB has not moved to the Conde Nast Building as of yet. In fact, the station has filed and been granted an extension until Octover 18th to complete the move to NYC. The following is a filing with the Commission, made last monthy, that talks to this very point.


NJPBA IS MOVING WITH ALL DUE DILIGENCE TO IMPLEMENT THE MODIFICATION, WHICH REPRESENTS THE CULMINATION OF DECADES OF EFFORTS TO DRAMATICALLY ENHANCE SERVICE TO THE PUBLIC VIA RELOCATION OF FACILITIES TO A VASTLY SUPERIOR SITE. IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT THE MODIFICATION WAS ONLY RECENTLY GRANTED AND OF THE LOGISTICAL ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PROJECT, NJPBA ANTICIPATED THAT IT WOULD SEEK SOME ADDITIONAL TIME TO COMPLETE THE RELOCATION. IN THAT REGARD NJPBA HAS FILED AND BEEN GRANTED AN EXTENSION UNTIL OCTOBER 18, 2009 TO COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION PURSUANT TO THE FCC'S POLICIES REGARDING PHASED TRANSITION RELIEF (SEE FCC. FILE NO. BLDSTA-20081217ABN). SUCH ADDITIONAL TIME WILL IN NO WAY COMPROMISE THE ACCESS OF NJPBA'S CURRENT AUDIENCE TO THE LICENSEE'S ANALOG AND DIGITAL SERVICE.


----------



## Trip in VA

TV Fool is in error, probably due to errors in the FCC database. WNJB-DT is, to my knowledge, still in New Jersey.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

what about their Signal Analysis report? is that wrong too? i'd rather get one PBS than ABC 7.1, WNYE 25.1, or the spanish channels. it really upsets me i have no PBS.


btw, when i check TVFool's Signal Analysis post-Jun 12, i see Thirteen 13.1 move from the "yellow zone" up to the green one with all its transmission numbers a bit higher. does that mean that they will broadcast with stronger signal after Jun 12? can i trust TVFool's analysis at all?


----------



## Trip in VA

TV Fool is generally correct but the data for WNJB is wrong. I've seen a few of these "jump the gun" sort of issues with the FCC database where it shows a station as using a future site for transmission rather than the current one.


- Trip


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16499122
> 
> 
> according to
> 
> i'm on 200th street and, according to TVFool, WNJB is currently on the very top of my Signal Analysis report appearing as the strongest channel, but i cant get it -- even though i get all the other channels "green" channels! i'm PBS-less! :-( i understand i cant get Thirteen 13.1 or WLIW 21.1 because they are on the yellow and red zones of my Signal report. however, i expected to, at least, get WNJB.
> 
> 
> i'm using an indoor antena i made myself. is anyone from the Wash Heights/Inwood area getting WNJB 58.1?
> 
> 
> P.S.: i just realized something. WNJB is the only "green" channel on my Signal report that is broadcasting in VHF. its actual channel is 8. maybe that's why i don get it.



I'm at 187th Street in Washington Heights, about 1 block away from Bennet Park which has a plaque attached to a rock that says that THAT is the highest natural point in Manhattan - not on top of a building.


I get WNJB New Brunswick as 50-1 and 50-2. The signal on my Zenith 901 is Green - I'd guess 90%. I don't get 58 - or am I getting 58 as 50? I'm a bit confused. I use an old indoor UHF dual bowtie antenna. I'm afraid that on June 12, when stations shift to VHF, my UHF antenna will be worthless. I may buy a Radio Shack dual band $20 indoor antenna, with the plan to return it if it doesn't work. Also whenever a plane flys along the Hudson River, the picture freezes, pixelates, disappears. Starting June 12, there are going to be ALOT of angry people - The government should give coupons for antennas too.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> I get WNJB New Brunswick as 50-1 and 50-2. The signal on my Zenith 901 is Green - I'd guess 90%. I don't get 58 - or am I getting 58 as 50? I'm a bit confused.



i think Trip was right.... TVFool is not giving the right info regarding WNJB. AntennaWeb also lists the station as virtual channel 58.1 (channel 8 on VHF), but the difference is that AntennaWeb says WNJB will only become operational on June 12. very confusing, indeed!



> Quote:
> I use an old indoor UHF dual bowtie antenna. I'm afraid that on June 12, when stations shift to VHF, my UHF antenna will be worthless.



probably not. some channels will remain in UHF. i hope i can get Thirteen or WLIW21 next month. you live on the top of the island, so i'm not surprised you can get WNJB. do you get any other PBS station in digital?


i always have a very stable picture, but probably because i'm too far from the planes' routes to be affected. i made a temporary UHF antenna using 14-gauge wires and it gets me all channels except the PBSs (which i love). however, i plan on buying the Terk HDTVa once the transition is over. my converter is very good (Channel Master CM-7000), but my window -- unfortunately -- faces North.







now that PBS stations are streaming videos on their websites, i can survive without their broadcasts. however, i'd much rather have them on the telly as well!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16501669
> 
> 
> I get WNJB New Brunswick as 50-1 and 50-2.



You're actually picking up WNJN out of Montclair. If you were picking up WNJB, it would show up on 58-1.


----------



## jpg7

This morning I noticed that reception on WNJU (Telemundo 47.1) took a nosedive for me. Any other observed problems, particularly in Brooklyn? Everything else stayed fine except for a slight drop in WNBC signal strength (and this is with my antenna in its magic "get everything" spot).


I believe WNJU-DT is on 36 - would anything using the emergency 37 channel interfere with it?


----------



## SnellKrell

Not getting any signal on Channel 36!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpg7* /forum/post/16502304
> 
> 
> I believe WNJU-DT is on 36 - would anything using the emergency 37 channel interfere with it?



Channel 37 is reserved for radio astronomy. Technically speaking, there should be nothing at all on it ever other than maybe some very low powered hospital equipment.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

36 is back!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16501669
> 
> 
> I'm at 187th Street in Washington Heights, about 1 block away from Bennet Park which has a plaque attached to a rock that says that THAT is the highest natural point in Manhattan - not on top of a building.
> 
> 
> I get WNJB New Brunswick as 50-1 and 50-2. The signal on my Zenith 901 is Green - I'd guess 90%. I don't get 58 - or am I getting 58 as 50? I'm a bit confused. I use an old indoor UHF dual bowtie antenna. I'm afraid that on June 12, when stations shift to VHF, my UHF antenna will be worthless. I may buy a Radio Shack dual band $20 indoor antenna, with the plan to return it if it doesn't work. Also whenever a plane flys along the Hudson River, the picture freezes, pixelates, disappears. Starting June 12, there are going to be ALOT of angry people - The government should give coupons for antennas too.



I was told that if the tower is close. Under 10 miles a UHF antenna should pick up VHF. Don't hold me to that though


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16503208
> 
> 
> I was told that if the tower is close. Under 10 miles a UHF antenna should pick up VHF. Don't hold me to that though



Well for what its worth, I'm 25 miles away from ESB and have a cheap bowtie antenna outside under an eave, And I can get most of the analogs pretty good with a little snow, so we'll see come June 12th.


----------



## SnellKrell

I live 1.6 miles from the ESB and my UHF antenna cannot pickup VHF 2 and has trouble with 4 and 5.


Under 10 miles has little to do with it. You must consider the station's frequency and your location's terrain. Huge difference between 10 miles with LOS and 10 miles with steel buildings between you and the transmission point.


Digital reception can be mercurial. Too many people are driving themselves crazy about what they will or will not be able to receive come the transition, and they continue to ask unanswerable questions.


Have patience and wait until 6/12 - this will be the time when you will have the ability to judge the quality of your reception.


And to confuse things even more, after 6/12, stations will be changing things on the ESB once unused analogue antennas are removed from both the mooring mast and the antenna mast. New and more desirable real estate will become available.


Stations have planned changes going into 2010 and 2011.


It will be an ever changing world out there!


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16503208
> 
> 
> I was told that if the tower is close. Under 10 miles a UHF antenna should pick up VHF. Don't hold me to that though



The problem isn't so much the distance, but the signal quality. I have had success with using a UHF Silver Sensor to receive upper VHF DTV signals in Monterey, CA, but I had LOS to the mountain (at about 25 miles). On the other side of the building, where my room was, no such luck.


In downtown areas, I have not see very many clean analog VHF signals so am not optimistic for VHF DTV in such areas. Attached are sample pictures from my parents' condo in downtown San Diego of analog KGTV/10. I was able to receive the DTV signal on 25 just fine, however, until it moved back to VHF. Also attached is a sample UHF analog picture.


Can anyone can post analog pics for the NYC downtown areas? I would be most interested in 7, 11 & 13.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16503260
> 
> 
> Well for what its worth, I'm 25 miles away from ESB and have a cheap bowtie antenna outside under an eave, And I can get most of the analogs pretty good with a little snow, so we'll see come June 12th.



From what I heard that is too far. I was looking at a Clearstream C2


It has the same distance for UHF like the DB2/Aspen. 50 miles and it is made for high vhf 7 to 13. No Vhf will be lower then 7 after june 12th


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16503275
> 
> 
> Under 10 miles has little to do with it. You must consider the station's frequency and your location's terrain. Huge difference between 10 miles with LOS and 10 miles with steel buildings between you and the transmission point.



true. that must be the source of my problem at picking the PBSs. i'm on 200th street and this area is very low when compared to Washington Heights. the Tryon Park's hill is probably obstructing the signals.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16504788
> 
> 
> true. that must be the source of my problem at picking the PBSs. i'm on 200th street and this area is very low when compared to Washington Heights. the Tryon Park's hill is probably obstructing the signals.



Not what I heard. IT all matters and UHF antenna will not pick up far away VHF it's that simple


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16504956
> 
> 
> Not what I heard. IT all matters and UHF antenna will not pick up far away VHF it's that simple



of course it all matters.... distance, frequency, shape of antenna, terrain, weather, etc have an influence on the quality of the signal one receives. what i meant initially was:


1) given that i'm only 10 miles away from the furthest transmitter,

2) other people who are even farther away can get the channels,


that means that my relatively low terrain is the likely culprit.


----------



## SnellKrell

Bingo!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16505311
> 
> 
> of course it all matters.... distance, frequency, shape of antenna, terrain, weather, etc have an influence on the quality of the signal one receives. what i meant initially was:
> 
> 
> 1) given that i'm only 10 miles away from the furthest transmitter,
> 
> 2) other people who are even farther away can get the channels,
> 
> 
> that means that my relatively low terrain is the likely culprit.



look into the clearstream c2


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16505684
> 
> 
> look into the clearstream c2



do you have it? do you use it indoors?


picking an indoor antenna for my apartment will be difficult.... i was considering the Terk HDTVa based on the immense number of good reviews it has gotten on Amazon (700+, 4 stars). the price is also good. but it's paramount to me to get at least 1 PBS on June 12.


i'll probably have to head to the antenna threads and ask questions. picking the converter was rather easy. choosing the antenna will not. and i will prolly have to ship stuff back....


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16505835
> 
> 
> do you have it? do you use it indoors?
> 
> 
> picking an indoor antenna for my apartment will be difficult.... i was considering the Terk HDTVa based on the immense number of good reviews it has gotten on Amazon (700+, 4 stars). the price is also good. but it's paramount to me to get at least 1 PBS on June 12.
> 
> 
> i'll probably have to head to the antenna threads and ask questions. picking the converter was rather easy. choosing the antenna will not. and i will prolly have to ship stuff back....



Antennas are hit or miss. I know someone using the DB2/Aspen UHF Indoors and gets stations 33 miles away. The C2 is very similar to the Db2 but also gets high VHF 7 to 13 and Uhf. The size and range are almost identical. Also there is a thread here. That shows that these two antennas get very similar numbers for signal and are rated by this forum as number 1 and 2 People use this Outdoor antenna indoors because the size is about a case of water. Not big.


I will get one very soon and plan on putting it on a BIG stick that I bought at homedepot. A Clothes Rod that they cut for me.


The one we have now is the Terk -55 But we get stations barley at 20 miles and not well. Under 15 miles it works great. Max range is 30 miles it says.


The C2 and Db2 are 50 miles. I am hoping for 22 miles. That's all I need for the extra stations I want.


I will hide the C2 behind some furniture


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16505977
> 
> 
> The C2 is very similar to the Db2 but also gets high VHF 7 to 13 and Uhf.



i just read the reviews on Amazon (gonna start reading the AVS reviews now) and ppl have had a bad experience with the C2's high VHF reception.... given that, post-transition, ABC, CW, Thirteen (PBS) and WNJB (PBS) will be on VHF, i must make sure that i can receive VHF indoors.


my crappyly-improvised loop antenna gets lots of UHF channels....including Ion! that means that any not-too-crappy "real" antenna will get me good reception of UHF channels. i only have to ensure that the antenna i pick can also handle VHF high. from what i see, UHF wont be a problem.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16506204
> 
> 
> i just read the reviews on Amazon (gonna start reading the AVS reviews now) and ppl have had a bad experience with the C2's high VHF reception.... given that, post-transition, ABC, CW, Thirteen (PBS) and WNJB (PBS) will be on VHF, i must make sure that i can receive VHF indoors.
> 
> .



Can you link some? I didn't see that. Also how was it mounted? I plan a 6 foot stick.


For us those stations you listed will stay 7 miles away. So I see no problem. What was the distance of people complaining about high VHF?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16506343
> 
> 
> Can you link some? I didn't see that. Also how was it mounted? I plan a 6 foot stick.



what you mean? the reviews?







http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-C2-CLEARSTREAM2-Antenna/product-reviews/B0017O3UHI/ref=pr_all_summary_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 

use the command Edit > Find to search for the word VHF.


does anyone here know of any *indoor* antenna that handles VHF well? i'm accepting suggestions.


Edit: sorry, i dont remember how far the reviewers were...


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16506391
> 
> 
> what you mean? the reviews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-C2-CLEARSTREAM2-Antenna/product-reviews/B0017O3UHI/ref=pr_all_summary_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
> 
> use the command Edit > Find to search for the word VHF.
> 
> 
> does anyone here know of any *indoor* antenna that handles VHF well? i'm accepting suggestions.
> 
> 
> Edit: sorry, i dont remember how far the reviewers were...



As I said the terk-55 is great under 15 miles. does both uhf and vhf


----------



## lexus2108

BTW the quick search using the command youi just taught me. TY


I see people complain about LOW VHF not high VHF which is what the C2 was made for not low vhf.


Time after time I see people complain about low and not high.


Also after june 12th Only high VHF will be used 7 to 13


And since it is only 7 miles from tower and I was told the DB2 does get in Vhf close only like 10 miles


So I will try the C2. Don't think I can go wrong here. If I do I will return it.


If you pm me I will put you on my list to let know if it worked for me


----------



## SemiChemE

If you haven't already seen it, check out:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html 


As for the C2, you might be ok for high VHF if you already have a pretty decent signal, but I wouldn't count on it being a lot better than simple Rabbit Ears. The link above seems to indicate that some 8-bay UHF antennas do OK for high VHF, but the C2 is probably too small. It might get something if your signal is already pretty decent and may do a little better than just rabbit ears, but don't expect miracles.


Personally, I have the C4 and for UHF it is great (From my attic it pulls in stations from Albany, over 65 miles away and even a few NYC stations off the backside at 65 miles in the opposite direction). However, I can't get any VHF low or high. Of course considering the distances involved that's a pretty tall order, so I can't say you'll get nothing. I do have a pretty good VHF antenna in my attic as well, but even that only pulls in the NYC stations marginally well.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i'm hoping to find some answer here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16506641
> 
> 
> If you haven't already seen it, check out:
> 
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
> 
> 
> As for the C2, you might be ok for high VHF if you already have a pretty decent signal, but I wouldn't count on it being a lot better than simple Rabbit Ears. The link above seems to indicate that some 8-bay UHF antennas do OK for high VHF, but the C2 is probably too small. It might get something if your signal is already pretty decent and may do a little better than just rabbit ears, but don't expect miracles.
> 
> 
> Personally, I have the C4 and for UHF it is great (From my attic it pulls in stations from Albany, over 65 miles away and even a few NYC stations off the backside at 65 miles in the opposite direction). However, I can't get any VHF low or high. Of course considering the distances involved that's a pretty tall order, so I can't say you'll get nothing. I do have a pretty good VHF antenna in my attic as well, but even that only pulls in the NYC stations marginally well.



As I said for us the (3) VHF stations will be 7 miles away. I see no problem getting them in. When a DB2 for UHF only gets in close UHF


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16506797
> 
> 
> i'm hoping to find some answer here:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779



As you can see from our friend EscapeVelocity (thank you sir)


The DB2/Aspen and the C2 are number 1 and 2


I can see no harm in trying it. That is what I will do. I am hoping to pick up stations 21 to 22 miles away. The terk gets 1 or 2 of these stations only at certain times and not well. These far stations are UHF. The VHF will be only 7 miles. So I think I can get best of both worlds


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16507245
> 
> 
> As you can see from our friend EscapeVelocity (thank you sir)
> 
> 
> The DB2/Aspen and the C2 are number 1 and 2



notice that the table doesnt list any VHF channel.

the DB2 and CS2 are very well regarded around here and probably can pick near VHF channels, like you say. but i'd like to hear an owner come up and say it.


i'm compiling a list of good candidates based on that thread but i know there's no perfect antenna. i'll have to compromise.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16507328
> 
> 
> notice that the table doesnt list any VHF channel.
> 
> the DB2 and CS2 are very well regarded around here and probably can pick near VHF channels, like you say. but i'd like to hear an owner come up and say it.
> 
> 
> i'm compiling a list of good candidates based on that thread but i know there's no perfect antenna. i'll have to compromise.



I have another link around I need to find it. It has the owner of the C2 posting in the thread. I am convinced it will work for us.


Since our VHF will be 7 miles away and the UHF will be 7 to 22 miles.


----------



## nordloewelabs

Winegard SS-3000
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...0-reviews.html 







http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-SS-3000-Amplified-Indoor-Antenna/product-reviews/B001DFZ5II/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 


Winegard HD-1080
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037149 







http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-HD-1080-HDTV-High-Antenna/product-reviews/B001DFTGQU/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 


Terk HDTVa
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...a-reviews.html 




nice list of Indoor antennas:
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/indoor.php


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16507696
> 
> 
> Winegard SS-3000
> http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...0-reviews.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-SS-3000-Amplified-Indoor-Antenna/product-reviews/B001DFZ5II/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
> 
> 
> Winegard HD-1080
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037149
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-HD-1080-HDTV-High-Antenna/product-reviews/B001DFTGQU/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
> 
> 
> Terk HDTVa
> http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...a-reviews.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nice list of Indoor antennas:
> http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/indoor.php



Those two are listed at middle bottom of list above. For me I will stick to the C2


----------



## reddice

Closer is not always better which is the case for me. I am only 4 miles from the ESB yet I can't get channels 2 or 13 at all while many others can get channel 2. Also my only strongest local stations are 5 and 7. I can get a real cruddy religious station which is the furthest away 15 miles the strongest of them all. I even peaked it at 96% yet I never got a ESB station much closer higher than 80%. I am worried that come June 12th I will lose channels 7 and 11 since I don't know how high VHF comes in. This is with a Terk HDTVi but I tried many other antennas, amplified and even a 1 dollar antenna VHF and that cruddy WFME comes in very strong but the weak and can't get stations are still weak with any antenna I try.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16510468
> 
> 
> Closer is not always better which is the case for me. I am only 4 miles from the ESB yet I can't get channels 2 or 13 at all while many others can get channel 2. Also my only strongest local stations are 5 and 7. I can get a real cruddy religious station which is the furthest away 15 miles the strongest of them all. I even peaked it at 96% yet I never got a ESB station much closer higher than 80%. I am worried that come June 12th I will lose channels 7 and 11 since I don't know how high VHF comes in. This is with a Terk HDTVi but I tried many other antennas, amplified and even a 1 dollar antenna VHF and that cruddy WFME comes in very strong but the weak and can't get stations are still weak with any antenna I try.



We get all stations in strong and 2-13 are the strongest. Everything in the 90's signal strength.


As for as "real cruddy religious station " Got to love the old man on channel 29-1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10


After June 12th ALL vhf will be HIGH VHF or channels 7 to 13


We just delete those stations. I do not count that in the 28 channels she gets now. Including subs


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16493688
> 
> 
> What channel is CV 34 We don't seem to get that at all?



CV34-1 is entirely spanish, it has Haitian 1hour News, short News from Spain, other caribean region programs, probably in Miami it would be on cable.

Caribean Vision, CV34-1 is on ch.34 only Digital, Analog is finito,on L.I. Most programmas

are in spanish, such as Mujeres Asesinas also on Univ.41; Infieles - diabolical schemes of revenge or

just fun; Aida comedy; El Comisario cop show; Hospital; 7 Vidas; Hollywood caffes of gossip or movies;

Futbol Mexicana, boxing, cooking etc.

I use 2 Rabbit Ears with plastic plate Antenna connected on 4-1 Splitter, one coaxial connected to

converter box, the Click,click is best control. Outdoor roof Antenna is used only as support to indoor Antenna, I use also 1or2 extra bows hooked on splitter, it surely gives overload but it is easy to

remove from splitter. Still cannot get 47-1. All major ch. I get, however if I want 41 I risk loosing ION

30-31 or wnet13-61


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/16511452
> 
> 
> CV34-1 is entirely spanish, it has Haitian 1hour News, short News from Spain, other caribean region programs, probably in Miami it would be on cable



Is it Channel 34? OR some other number?


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16510552
> 
> 
> We get all stations in strong and 2-13 are the strongest. Everything in the 90's signal strength.
> 
> 
> As for as "real cruddy religious station " Got to love the old man on channel 29-1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
> 
> 
> After June 12th ALL vhf will be HIGH VHF or channels 7 to 13
> 
> 
> We just delete those stations. I do not count that in the 28 channels she gets now. Including subs



Well I am hoping I will get channel 2 stronger when it moves to channel 33. Right now channel 11 is on 33 and I get it around the high 50's to 70's with very little break up. Channel 13 is what I am really looking forward too since Dish Network only carries the center cropped down converted SD version.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16511493
> 
> 
> Is it Channel 34? OR some other number?



Strictly 34, the Analog is off the air, I had CV34-1 Digital on Ion31 before but I deleted it then Add on Scan picked it up on 34 its permanent location

and now it is CV34 Network, Digital. Right now the CV34-1 runs promotional

line up in 10 minutes intervales nonstop.

The signal is pretty strong in third Good level around 70-80 fluctuation.

Univision41 runs at Bad level 25-33 but steady uninterupted signal and that

what matters, I had wnet13 running at 25 but locked in giving good PQ and sound


----------



## nordloewelabs

here's a discussion on the Clearstream antennas with interesting explanations by the company's owner (user "rschneider"). he posted 3 times on the thread and stressed that Clearstreams really do high VHF better.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/vi...71be5ca75cc8c6 


as of now, i'm more inclined to try the Winegards SS-3000 and the HD-1080, but i certainly feel more confident about the Clearstrems now. i wouldnt get the C2, though. too much money.


i have analyzed my TVFool data more attentively and now i see that once WNET-DT switches to channel 13, it will have a reasonably wider transmission range. those that havent tried TVFool's TV Maps , should check it out. it goes beyong the Signal Analysis Report. setup the map to "Display > Both" and compare the pre-transition and post-transition coverage areas of your favourite stations. note that the colors go from "white" to "purple" with purple being the weakest.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/16516432
> 
> 
> Strictly 34, the Analog is off the air, I had CV34-1 Digital on Ion31 before but I deleted it then Add on Scan picked it up on 34 its permanent location
> 
> and now it is CV34 Network, Digital. Right now the CV34-1 runs promotional
> 
> line up in 10 minutes intervales nonstop.
> 
> The signal is pretty strong in third Good level around 70-80 fluctuation.
> 
> Univision41 runs at Bad level 25-33 but steady uninterupted signal and that
> 
> what matters, I had wnet13 running at 25 but locked in giving good PQ and sound



which tower do they use? Are they in NY?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16517836
> 
> 
> here's a discussion on the Clearstream antennas with interesting explanations by the company's owner (user "rschneider"). he posted 3 times on the thread and stressed that Clearstreams really do high VHF better.
> 
> http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/vi...71be5ca75cc8c6
> 
> 
> as of now, i'm more inclined to try the Winegards SS-3000 and the HD-1080, but i certainly feel more confident about the Clearstrems now. i wouldnt get the C2, though. too much money.
> 
> 
> i have analyzed my TVFool data more attentively and now i see that once WNET-DT switches to channel 13, it will have a reasonably wider transmission range. those that havent tried TVFool's TV Maps , should check it out. it goes beyong the Signal Analysis Report. setup the map to "Display > Both" and compare the pre-transition and post-transition coverage areas of your favourite stations. note that the colors go from "white" to "purple" with purple being the weakest.



$60 is too expensive? How much is wineguard?


Yea that is the link I wanted you to see


----------



## nordloewelabs

C2 is $75

SS-3000 is $52

HD-1080 is $42

HDTVa is $37

(all with free shipping from Amazon)


the C2 is the last one on my list of candidates....


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16518430
> 
> 
> C2 is $75
> 
> SS-3000 is $52
> 
> HD-1080 is $42
> 
> HDTVa is $37
> 
> (all with free shipping from Amazon)
> 
> 
> the C2 is the last one on my list of candidates....



Direct from amazon was raised from $68 to now $75 BUT you can buy on amazon from other sellers for $60. No tax and $7 shipping. If you pay the $75 direct from Amazon they have to charge NY tax now. New rule. With a 3rd party no tax


I did this for a waffle maker and had no problems. Amazon has a A to z guarantee for 3rd party's.



The Winegard HD-1080 HDTV High Band VHF Antenna


is very interesting. Only 40 miles but has a special VHF thing. Also gets Uhf



Wonder how it compares to C2



PS best buy wants $135 for the C2. ouch!


----------



## nordloewelabs

like others have said, antenna shopping is more of an art than science, which might force me to try a few models before making a pick. or perhapps i'll just lose my patience and give up on TV.... it's a bad habit anyway.


i'm just going though all this research for good ol' PBS. i also need NBC because my gf is heavy into Law & Order.... all of 'em!!!










btw, will NBC keep airing that lame channel with old sport events? what a waste! why dont they put USA on its place, instead? and keeping in the same subject, is there any chance of TNT, TBS, AMC, etc going OTA someday? there are a lot of people giving up on subscription TV in favour of over-the-air DTV and Hulu.


----------



## reddice

Channel 34 analog was fuzzy but watchable. Digital it breaks up all the time which tells me that digital travels much less. Not progress to many people come June when they are going to be losing many of there OTA stations with there digital converter boxes. They are going to be forced to get cable or satellite.


----------



## Bix

Depends on the location-I never got Ch. 34 analog at all and now I get it digital with the signal averaging around 60.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16518447
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> PS best buy wants $135 for the C2. ouch!




Nonsense. It's $99.99 with an occasional sale to $89.99.


Currently:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....egories&ks=960 



The "good" thing is that you can pick one up locally (usually) and try it out. If you have (or want) to return it, you've got 30 days without shipping or restock fee hassles.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16517836
> 
> 
> here's a discussion on the Clearstream antennas with interesting explanations by the company's owner (user "rschneider"). he posted 3 times on the thread and stressed that Clearstreams really do high VHF better.
> 
> http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/vi...71be5ca75cc8c6
> 
> 
> ...



Another online posting is at http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...t=41076&page=8 starting at post # 114. Several posts shortly prior to that one bring up the typical kibitzing of forum know-it-alls regarding the ClearStreams........


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16520012
> 
> 
> Nonsense. It's $99.99 with an occasional sale to $89.99.
> 
> 
> Currently:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....egories&ks=960
> 
> 
> 
> The "good" thing is that you can pick one up locally (usually) and try it out. If you have (or want) to return it, you've got 30 days without shipping or restock fee hassles.



Nope it is $99 online and $135 in my local store. I DO NOT LIE. No reason to



Did you go to your local store? Or just check online? Before you attack please do your homework. Thanks


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16520219
> 
> 
> Nope it is $99 online and $135 in my local store. I DO NOT LIE. No reason to
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to your local store? Or just check online? Before you attack please do your homework. Thanks



You can always price match to their online price right at the register. I've done it a few times for DVD's and it's quick and painless. Just mention to the cashier that the item is lower online, she/he will go check then adjust the price right at the cash.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16519488
> 
> 
> Not progress to many people come June when they are going to be losing many of there OTA stations with there digital converter boxes. They are going to be forced to get cable or satellite.



i agree with Bix. depends on location. where i live, i cannot pick a single VHF channel with acceptable quality.... they all look and sound terrible. on the other hand, with exception of WNET-13.1, i pick all channels nicely using just an improvised loop antenna. Ion-31.1 is the only channel for which messing with the antenna is necessary.


i believe Cable and Satellite will have to adapt in someway to the rise of online video streaming plus the new reality of broadcasting. for years, they have been milking people with their endless number of (useless) channels and over-compressing of video. due to 1) this bad economy; 2) Hulu; 3) DTV; we have reached critical mass. they will have to adapt or die.


my opinion, of course.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16520368
> 
> 
> You can always price match to their online price right at the register. I've done it a few times for DVD's and it's quick and painless. Just mention to the cashier that the item is lower online, she/he will go check then adjust the price right at the cash.



That I DID NOT KNOW Thanks


Would they Price match Amazon or just their own website?


----------



## POWERFUL

Usually their own, but I've gotten the big box store to match J&R, even out on the the Island.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *powerful* /forum/post/16521679
> 
> 
> usually their own, but i've gotten the big box store to match j&r, even out on the the island.



big box store?


----------



## POWERFUL

Best Buy, gone but not forgotten Circuit City, Sears, and I could go on but I think you get the idea.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *POWERFUL* /forum/post/16523497
> 
> 
> Best Buy, gone but not forgotten Circuit City, Sears, and I could go on but I think you get the idea.



I have found the C2 as low as $57 I find that to be a good price. As long as you use a good CC company that would dispute any problems. Then I do not have a problem buying from an unknown store. As long as there phone number works and address checks out.


Something tells me best buy would not match such a price if they are selling it in a store for $130's


----------



## lexus2108

I guess I will be called nonsense again for this comment.


My Aunt heard from a neighbor that the transition could be delayed to October, 2009


Anyone else hear this? I hope it is not true. Tired of delays.


I am just sharing what I am hearing and my own DD. I should not be flamed for it. I should be thanked


----------



## SnellKrell

No thanks!


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16506641
> 
> 
> If you haven't already seen it, check out:
> 
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
> 
> 
> As for the C2, you might be ok for high VHF if you already have a pretty decent signal, but I wouldn't count on it being a lot better than simple Rabbit Ears. The link above seems to indicate that some 8-bay UHF antennas do OK for high VHF, but the C2 is probably too small. It might get something if your signal is already pretty decent and may do a little better than just rabbit ears, but don't expect miracles.



I agree.


I don't have a C2, but I will re-iterate my position that only looking at miles from the broadcast tower is counterproductive. Obstructions, terrain, impulse noise, reflections/multi-path all play much bigger roles in line of sight areas. Distance becomes a primary issue when the tower sets behind the natural horizon. I wish manufacturers wouldn't quote distance at all. Distance figures are even more meaningless in areas with the towers on a mountain, such as Mt. Wilson in the LA area.


Anyway, here is what HDTV Primer has to say about VHF performance for C2:



> Quote:
> The antenna elements are too small to have any response to VHF. And in case a really strong VHF signal sneaks in anyway, the UHF-only balun will filter it out. There is no significant reception for channels 2-13, despite what the antennasdirect.com web page says. This company makes mostly good antennas. But their marketing department lives in their own little world in which they are allowed to claim anything without fear of consequences. Their web site is especially untrustworthy.



It may work and if it does, fine, but I wouldn't count on it for upper VHF, unless the signals in the air around the antenna are very clean and strong.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16524442
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 
> I don't have a C2, but I will re-iterate my position that only looking at miles from the broadcast tower is counterproductive. Obstructions, terrain, impulse noise, reflections/multi-path all play much bigger roles in line of sight areas. Distance becomes a primary issue when the tower sets behind the natural horizon. I wish manufacturers wouldn't quote distance at all. Distance figures are even more meaningless in areas with the towers on a mountain, such as Mt. Wilson in the LA area.
> 
> 
> Anyway, here is what HDTV Primer has to say about VHF performance for C2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may work and if it does, fine, but I wouldn't count on it for upper VHF, unless the signals in the air around the antenna are very clean and strong.



ON existing antenna terk-50 we get 90's for signal on the meter. As long as it stays above 70 it will be fine. Plus the towers are boosting power for these 3 VHFs.


One guy says it is bad and many more say it is fine for high VHF. SO who to believe?


I disagree I think miles away is just as important as obstructions.


An Antenna can work good for you and bad for someone else. You just have to try it. That is my plan.


Count on it for VHF? Is that a joke? Everyone will have some stations on VHF after transition. So everyone needs VHF imo


That guy who complained didn't say how far he was away from towers?


Do you have the link for HDTV Primer? Thanks


----------



## nordloewelabs

i have found very few reviews about the Winegard HD-1080 which is supposed to do High VHF and UHF. on the other hand, i have found a surprising number of good reviews about the RadioShack 15-1892 (UFO) . so now i'm giving it consideration as well.

*does anyone here have either the HD-1080 or the 15-1892 UFO? what you think?*


i know EscapeVelocity tested the UFO but his thread is very focused on the UHF band -- and only a small number of channels. i wonder if, post-transition, his area will get any digital channels on VHF....


----------



## lexus2108

BTW did a Scan and now we get CV-34 Does not seem much to watch. Wonder why spend money on Digital conversion if there is nothing on your station?


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16524647
> 
> 
> i have found very few reviews about the Winegard HD-1080 which is supposed to do High VHF and UHF. on the other hand, i have found a surprising number of good reviews about the RadioShack 15-1892 (UFO) . so now i'm giving it consideration as well. does anyone here have it?
> 
> 
> i know EscapeVelocity tested it but his thread is very focused on the UHF band -- and only a small number of channels. i wonder if, post-transition, his area will get any digital channels on VHF....



I had that antenna and it was not that great. Although it pulls in about the same reception as my antenna now it suffered much more from multipath problems. Channels like 5 and 9 would come in strong and then drop down to nothing. Amplified did not make a bit of difference in giving me better reception. I still could not get channels 2 and 13. Although the Terk HDTVi does it sometimes it is very brief and quick. It is not amplified and I get better reception as I can get channel 50. With the UFO I could not get channel 50.


----------



## reddice

I think my problem is that my tuner in my TV stinks. How can someone be able to get a stable signal around 25%. If my tuner drops below 50% it breaks up. Anything below 45% and I get nothing but a black screen. When it hovers in the 50's like channel 4 does it breaks up too much at times. It is in the yellow until it hits the 60's and then it is in the green. I have a Toshiba Regza TV so the digital tuner must not be that good.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16525306
> 
> 
> I had that antenna and it was not that great.



hmmm, i'm assuming you're describing the UFO.... sorry, it's my fault. now i realize how ambiguous my previous post. i just edited it for clarity.... well, i've got a few questions for you:


1) how far from those problematic stations are you?

2) what is the antenna you're using now? the HDTVi?

3) which other indoor antennas have you tried? what's your fave?

4) how has been your success at picking high VHF?


after reading "billions and billions" (sorry, Sagan) of reviews, i still dont know what to get.







currently i'm more inclined to buy (in this order) the SS-3000 or the HDTVa. i'll probably get 1 of these 2 *plus* the UFO. i'll only get the UFO as well because it's convenient.... i have 2 RadioShack stores near me.


i wish i could find more reviews on the HD-3000, but i'm happy i have narrowed my choices down to 2 good antennas plus 1 "wild experiment".


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16525331
> 
> 
> I have a Toshiba Regza TV so the digital tuner must not be that good.



which brands are known to have sensitive tuners? any in particular or it changes from model to model?


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16524593
> 
> 
> Count on it for VHF? Is that a joke? Everyone will have some stations on VHF after transition. So everyone needs VHF imo
> 
> 
> That guy who complained didn't say how far he was away from towers?
> 
> 
> Do you have the link for HDTV Primer? Thanks



It's not a joke. Yes, most areas will have upper VHF, but there are plenty of UHF only antennas still being sold.


That being said, I have used a Silver Sensor (UHF only) to receive VHF DTV stations, but with LOS to a mountain. Yes, it *can* work, but only trial and error can say for sure.


Here is the link:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html 


The part about the C2 is at the bottom.


It's going to be interesting to see what works for VHF and where...


----------



## reddice

Channel 50 is bad for me today. Only getting it in the 40's and it breaks up. Unwatchable. This comes back to the person who can get a stable signal with only 25% strength. What kind of tuner is that. Below 50% for me is break up horror.


----------



## Trip in VA

reddice: Different tuners use different scales. I have a tuner that decodes at 33%, and another that decodes at 60%. The scales are different, but they decode at roughly the same time.


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16525630
> 
> 
> which brands are known to have sensitive tuners? any in particular or it changes from model to model?



I had a motorola hd100 & hd101. they both would lock up on a weak signal. Both of them failed after 6 months. my RCA 27" hd tv seem to do very well. I also have 3 sdtv converter boxes magnavox, Zenith & RCA. They were all about the same. I even tried a variable attenuator & with a signal meter. I could not see that any one of them worked any better than the others with a weak signal. Antennas, preamps, coax & 300 ohm wire are much a different story.


----------



## starry521

Hey, I'm new so im a little confused from all the information can anyone help???

I'm in jersey, about 16 miles from nyc. I have old tv and brought a converter box already, now i want to invested in an antenna cuz the $.99 one gives really crappy quality.

Does anyone know which indoor antenna is the best? I'm looking at the Terk HDTVa, does anyone know if its any good?

Thanks


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starry521* /forum/post/16527365
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm new so im a little confused from all the information can anyone help???
> 
> I'm in jersey, about 16 miles from nyc. I have old tv and brought a converter box already, now i want to invested in an antenna cuz the $.99 one gives really crappy quality.
> 
> Does anyone know which indoor antenna is the best? I'm looking at the Terk HDTVa, does anyone know if its any good?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starry521* /forum/post/16527365
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm new so im a little confused from all the information can anyone help???
> 
> I'm in jersey, about 16 miles from nyc. I have old tv and brought a converter box already, now i want to invested in an antenna cuz the $.99 one gives really crappy quality.
> 
> Does anyone know which indoor antenna is the best? I'm looking at the Terk HDTVa, does anyone know if its any good?
> 
> Thanks



I have a RS-1880 that's works great that I'm not using. If you want it we could work something out, PM me.


----------



## starry521

thanks for the info guys

I have another question

I read that some of the stations in the city are switching to VHF, how does that affect the kind of antenna i should get?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starry521* /forum/post/16529463
> 
> 
> thanks for the info guys
> 
> I have another question
> 
> I read that some of the stations in the city are switching to VHF, how does that affect the kind of antenna i should get?



in my opinion, you should wait till people here report their experiences with the antennas they bought. most here are waiting for June to see if their antennas will handle high VHF. some will only buy an antenna in June (my case). if you're an enthusiast or like to tinker with gadgets, buy your antenna now. otherwise, wait a bit more since you might have to buy several antennas before you settle with any one in particular.


i find EscapeVelocity's table (posted above by Lexus) incomplete because it does not account for any VHF channel. it does serve as a guidance for UHF reception, though. keep an eye on this thread. it will get very busy on June 12 once forum members report their results.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16529558
> 
> 
> in my opinion, you should wait till people here report their experiences with the antennas they bought. most here are waiting for June to see if their antennas will handle high VHF. some will only buy an antenna in June (my case). if you're an enthusiast or like to tinker with gadgets, buy your antenna now. otherwise, wait a bit more since you might have to buy several antennas before you settle with any one in particular.
> 
> 
> i find EscapeVelocity's table (posted above by Lexus) incomplete because it does not account for any VHF channel. it does serve as a guidance for UHF reception, though. keep an eye on this thread. it will get very busy on June 12 once forum members report their results.



How do you know it was testing for just UHF? I didn't see where he said that?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16529861
> 
> 
> How do you know it was testing for just UHF? I didn't see where he said that?



i read a pretty big chunk of his thread. he lives in South Carolina if my memory serves. either his area is served only with digital channels on UHF, or he has only cared to pick channels in this band. after reading tons of pages of that thread -- with lots of good info on antennas -- i noticed the pattern: he was picking only UHF.


besides, you can also infer the UHF-only nature of his tests by examining the table itself. notice that the channels he has used as headers are: 34, 35, 40, 44, 47, 49 and 50.


if he has tested digital channels on high VHF, i missed it. i've read A LOT of that thread, but not all of it.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16529947
> 
> 
> i read a pretty big chunk of his thread. he lives in South Carolina if my memory serves. either his area is served only with digital channels on UHF, or he has only cared to pick channels in this band. after reading tons of pages of that thread -- with lots of good info on antennas -- i noticed the pattern: he was picking only UHF.
> 
> 
> besides, you can also infer the UHF-only nature of his tests by examining the table itself. notice that the channels he has used as headers are: 34, 35, 40, 44, 47, 49 and 50.
> 
> 
> if he has tested digital channels on high VHF, i missed it. i've read A LOT of that thread, but not all of it.



Wished there was ONE magic Antenna to work for everyone.


----------



## nordloewelabs

the Winegard HD-1080 is on sale for $32 on Buy.com (free shipping). given that the price is so good and we are 2 weeks away from analog cut-off, i'm considering the bargain....


p.s: i'm not sure if it's ok to post deals here, so feel free to delete my post and accept my apologies in advance.


p.s.2: for those that dont know, Winegard claims this antenna does high VHF.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16530058
> 
> 
> Wished there was ONE magic Antenna to work for everyone.




Even if there were, the bloggers and kibbutzers would have a list of complaints about it. I can see it now:



Too big

Too small

Price is a rip-off (should be free, I guess)

Doesn't get certain channels well enough to suit them

Wrong color

Needs an amplifier

Shouldn't have an amplifier

Doesn't come with magic beans


Etc, etc, ad nauseum....


I could go on, but why bother....


----------



## SnellKrell

"Wished there was ONE magic Antenna to work for everyone."


Yes, and we'll call it a Master Antenna!


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starry521* /forum/post/16529463
> 
> 
> thanks for the info guys
> 
> I have another question
> 
> I read that some of the stations in the city are switching to VHF, how does that affect the kind of antenna i should get?




7, 11, and 13 are going back to VHF. I get about a 90-95 clear signal when I use my UHF antenna Channel Master 4228 and Channel Master 7777 pre-amp.

I'm 25 miles east of Manhattan. The reason why 7 and up comes in because there's a big jump in the frequency after channel 5.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/16532468
> 
> 
> 7, 11, and 13 are going back to VHF. I get about a 90-95 clear signal when I use my UHF antenna Channel Master 4228 and Channel Master 7777 pre-amp.
> 
> I'm 25 miles east of Manhattan. The reason why 7 and up comes in because there's a big jump in the frequency after channel 5.




The substantial gap is between 6 and 7. Channel 6 ends at 88 MHz and channel 7 begins at 174 MHz.


Channels 2-6 are defined as low VHF. 7-13 are high VHF. UHF band begins just above 400 MHZ.


----------



## njirnet

Sorry if someone has already posted, but I didn't see it.

Can someone please post the list of what the Final Channel locations will be after the June?

Thanks


----------



## LenL

I have the same set up that you have with the CM equipment but I am 30 miles west of the ESB. So lets stay in touch on reception via this forum.


As far as high VHF with this CM equipment I can receive the analog versions of the NY stations but the picture quality is not very good. I can also get NJ PBS digital 58.1 which is VHF 8. Although it will drop out now an then.


I just took my coax off the Optimum connection and put it back on the antenna to monitor results leading up to 6.12 and beyond. (I went back to my cable setup because my OTA results were very up and down from day to day)


I will be posting a few days before 6/12 reminding/asking volunteers to post their reception right before the cut over date and right after so we can all see the impact if any on receprtion.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *njirnet* /forum/post/16533867
> 
> 
> Sorry if someone has already posted, but I didn't see it.
> 
> Can someone please post the list of what the Final Channel locations will be after the June?
> 
> Thanks



Here is the listing for the NYC area (analog-virtual/pre/post):


WCBS CBS 2 56 33

WNBC NBC 4 28 28

WNYW FOX 5 44 44

WABC ABC 7 45 7

WWOR MyN 9 38 38

WPIX CW 11 33 11

WNET PBS 13 61 13

WLIW PBS 21 22 21

WNYE ind. 25 24 24

WPXN ion 31 30 31

WXTV uni 41 40 40

WNJU telem 47 36 36

WNJN PBS 50 51 51

WNJB PBS 58 8 8

WMBC ind. 63 18 18

WFME rlg 66 29 29

WFUT telef 68 53 30


WSAH gems 43 42 42

WRNN jewelry 48 48 48

WEDW PBS 49 49 49

WTBY tbn 54 27 27

WLNY ind. 55 57 47

WFTY telef 67 23 23


----------



## lexus2108

Question for the board. We are in Queens and need to pick up NYC ESB stations and would like WLIW on long island. Using antenna's indoors


I read that some people are using a RCA D920 - Diplexer device to put a Vhf and Uhf antenna's together


Would this RCA D920 - Diplexer work in this case


Use the following antenna's with a diplexer


1) A new Clearstream C2 that is UHF/VHF (50 miles range)

and

2) A Terk-50 which from 10 years experience gets in UHF and VHF very well.

(15 miles range)


Would there be a conflict since they both do UHF/VHF?


I was thinking of doing this just in case the C2 Clearstream does not get in VHF .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------'


Or would this config work


1) DB2/Aspen UHF antenna 50 miles range


and


2) Terk-50 Uhf/Vhf 15 miles range



Do I lose signal using a diplexer?


We will have 3 stations going back to VHF and I do not want to travel to my aunts and spend the day and half to go back to fix the antenna issue.


Thanks guys



PS anyone know the Clearstream's direct website? Can't find it


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *njirnet* /forum/post/16533867
> 
> 
> Sorry if someone has already posted, but I didn't see it.
> 
> Can someone please post the list of what the Final Channel locations will be after the June?
> 
> Thanks



Try looking here http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/welcome.html 

The only Vermont I saw was Burlington. Maybe you're near some other metro area


----------



## SemiChemE

@ Lexus2108:


The RCA D920 Diplexer appears to be for combining an OTA antenna with Satellite (different frequencies) and would probably not work well for combining two OTA antennas. For your situation, you would probably want something like this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ 


or if you need a weatherproof version for outdoor antennas:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ANTDRCT-COMBNR 


You would connect the C2 to the UHF connector (which filters out any VHF from the C2) and the Terk to the VHF connector (which filters out any UHF from the Terk). The filters prevent competing signals from the two antennas from interfering with each other and more importantly, prevent 50% of the signal from one antenna from being transmitted out to the other antenna instead of going to your TV. Such a device does degrade your signal slightly (~0.5db), but this is probably acceptable.


You can avoid the 0.5db penalty by instead using an A-B switch (available at Radio Shack or Home Depot). However, in this case you will need to manually switch between antennas when you switch between a VHF and a UHF channel, so it's probably not worth it.


A slightly cheaper alternative is to use a simple unfiltered splitter/combiner (also available at Radio Shack or Home Depot). Due to the lack of filtering you will lose about 50% of your signal (~3.5 db). While I wouldn't recommend this solution, if your signal is pretty strong it may work perfectly despite the losses. Of course, if the signal is that strong, you'll probably get good enough VHF signal on the C2 and won't need the Terk.


Good Luck!


----------



## LenL

I'm not an expert in this so I can't help you. However I am curious as to where the TV is located in relation to the ESB and WLIW.


Aren't the WLIW transmitters in a different direction than the ESB transmitters? If so your issues are not UHF versus High VHF but direction so you will need to rotate your antenna. Also I would think that you are nicely located being in Queens that a decent UHF antenna like the C2 that also picks up high VHF should work fine for you. Worse case is you could add an amp and not have to deal with 2 antennas.


Just some thoughts I had from reading your post. Being 30 miles out in the hills to the west I envy those of you in Queens who are that close.


----------



## LenL

have you used this site? I think it is as good if not better than antenna web or TV fool.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16537942
> 
> 
> Question for the board. We are in Queens and need to pick up NYC ESB stations and would like WLIW on long island. Using antenna's indoors
> 
> 
> I read that some people are using a RCA D920 - Diplexer device to put a Vhf and Uhf antenna's together
> 
> 
> Would this RCA D920 - Diplexer work in this case
> 
> 
> Use the following antenna's with a diplexer
> 
> 
> 1) A new Clearstream C2 that is UHF/VHF (50 miles range)
> 
> and
> 
> 2) A Terk-50 which from 10 years experience gets in UHF and VHF very well.
> 
> (15 miles range)
> 
> 
> Would there be a conflict since they both do UHF/VHF?
> 
> 
> I was thinking of doing this just in case the C2 Clearstream does not get in VHF .
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------'
> 
> 
> Or would this config work
> 
> 
> 1) DB2/Aspen UHF antenna 50 miles range
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 2) Terk-50 Uhf/Vhf 15 miles range
> 
> 
> 
> Do I lose signal using a diplexer?
> 
> 
> We will have 3 stations going back to VHF and I do not want to travel to my aunts and spend the day and half to go back to fix the antenna issue.
> 
> 
> Thanks guys
> 
> 
> 
> PS anyone know the Clearstream's direct website? Can't find it




I'm in Levittown 25 miles east of ESB. WLIW transmitters are in Plainview (you can see them around exit 48 of the Long Isl Exp. on the north side). I have a Sony DHG-HDD250, a DTVPAL DVR and a Panasonic DMR-EZ27. Each of them can pick up WLIW depending on the atmospheric conditions and some better than others. My UHF antenna though points straight to Manhattan, so I guess it depends upon the ATSC tuner in the device you're using. Unfortunately they USED to have an HD signal around the time Channel 13 bought them so they could use their cash to help them out and right after that the HD channel went away. Dont know if they intend to do 1080i or 720p or whatever nexy month


----------



## SnellKrell

Never, never use antennaweb!


It's filled with misinformation - depending on whether you looking for analogue or digital, there are glaring errors concerning the transmission location of the following stations:


WABC

WCBS

WNBC

WNJU (Won't be on ESB for a while)

WPIX


I'm amazed that both the National Association of Broadcasters and the Consumer Electronics Association support this site!


Additionally, stations in the New York DMA are running PSAs suggesting that viewers go to antennaweb to help them with the transition.


No information would be better than the gross errors!!!


Someone isn't minding the store.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16540711
> 
> 
> Additionally, stations in the New York DMA are running PSAs suggesting that viewers go to antennaweb to help them with the transition.
> 
> 
> No information would be better than the gross errors!!!
> 
> 
> Someone isn't minding the store.



I agree. If I had relied on Antennaweb where I live, I would have concluded that it was hopeless. In reality, I can get all the local stations without any significant problems. Antennaweb is really pessimistic on UHF stations for some reason. That isn't even considering all the errors!


TV Fool and the FCC site are much better. It's too bad the PSA's can't at least reference the FCC site.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16539682
> 
> 
> @ Lexus2108:
> 
> 
> The RCA D920 Diplexer appears to be for combining an OTA antenna with Satellite (different frequencies) and would probably not work well for combining two OTA antennas. For your situation, you would probably want something like this:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ
> 
> 
> or if you need a weatherproof version for outdoor antennas:
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ANTDRCT-COMBNR
> 
> 
> You would connect the C2 to the UHF connector (which filters out any VHF from the C2) and the Terk to the VHF connector (which filters out any UHF from the Terk). The filters prevent competing signals from the two antennas from interfering with each other and more importantly, prevent 50% of the signal from one antenna from being transmitted out to the other antenna instead of going to your TV. Such a device does degrade your signal slightly (~0.5db), but this is probably acceptable.
> 
> 
> You can avoid the 0.5db penalty by instead using an A-B switch (available at Radio Shack or Home Depot). However, in this case you will need to manually switch between antennas when you switch between a VHF and a UHF channel, so it's probably not worth it.
> 
> 
> A slightly cheaper alternative is to use a simple unfiltered splitter/combiner (also available at Radio Shack or Home Depot). Due to the lack of filtering you will lose about 50% of your signal (~3.5 db). While I wouldn't recommend this solution, if your signal is pretty strong it may work perfectly despite the losses. Of course, if the signal is that strong, you'll probably get good enough VHF signal on the C2 and won't need the Terk.
> 
> 
> Good Luck!



Wow yours is the best solution I think. Others have told me to use a jointenna. It is confusing on which one to buy and costs $20.


Your $3 device seems to be a great choice in case the C2 Does not work for VHF. The 3 stations going back to VHF are only 7 miles away. The Terk-50 (made before the 55) never had a problem with a VERY STRONG signal with VHF/UHF from the short distance.


So I didn't want to do another 4 to 5 hour round trip to my aunts again for a TV problem.


So my plan is to have a back up idea just in case the C2 does not pick up the VHF signals. I have read conflicting posts that it will or won't work. Enough to concern me that it might not. Of course I talked to some one who has a DB2/aspen UHF only and does pick up a VHF station under 20 miles away. So the C2 should be fine. Crossing fingers.


I am looking to get the best of both worlds. Do not lose the Vhf near stations and Increase my range with UHF to pick up a few more stations. That is the plan.



Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner for Antenna


Can this be bought in Radio shack or best buy? Or has to be mail order?


Are you sure that if I plug the Terk into the VHF side the device will block out the UHF signal coming from the terk and visa versa with the C2


I do not have to worry that both antennas can do both uhf/vhf?


Wow you made me so happy if this simple back up plan is needed.


Thank You so much


----------



## LenL

My 2 cents. I have used Antenna Web, TV Fool, and the FCC web site and found none of them very accurate. At best they only give some general guidance as to what you can receive. I have found Anntenna Web far too conservative and TV Fool and the FCC at least in my case to be more reflective of my situation and my moms who is 1/2 mile away and closer to the ESB..... but both of them have lots of errors for both of us. Too many for me to go into but I don't think any of us can trust anything but our actual experience.


Now in all fairness to Antenna Web, if I did not use a preamp with my CM4228 I think it would be pretty accurate. However my experiment to remove my preamp and see what I get is on hold until after 6/12.


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16540711
> 
> 
> Someone isn't minding the store.



The store is exactly what they _are_ minding. Antennaweb.org is a front for selling antennas. And you can bet the NAB an CEA are getting pretty substantial kickbacks.


----------



## SemiChemE

@Lexus2108


The Jointenna performs a similar function to the UHF/VHF combiner, but it is usually designed to allow you to connect an antenna for one specific channel (eg. Channel 11) to another antenna for all of the other channels. This is useful if one channel is oriented in a different direction than the rest (eg. North, while the others are West) and thus you want to combine a North-facing antenna with a West-facing antenna.


Regarding the "Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner for Antenna":


I really don't have any personal experience with this part beyond the specs listed on the website. Also, I'll admit that I'm always a little skeptical about cheap (


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16544999
> 
> 
> @Lexus2108
> 
> 
> The Jointenna performs a similar function to the UHF/VHF combiner, but it is usually designed to allow you to connect an antenna for one specific channel (eg. Channel 11) to another antenna for all of the other channels. This is useful if one channel is oriented in a different direction than the rest (eg. North, while the others are West) and thus you want to combine a North-facing antenna with a West-facing antenna.
> 
> 
> Regarding the "Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner for Antenna":
> 
> 
> I really don't have any personal experience with this part beyond the specs listed on the website. Also, I'll admit that I'm always a little skeptical about cheap (


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16533935
> 
> 
> I have the same set up that you have with the CM equipment but I am 30 miles west of the ESB. So lets stay in touch on reception via this forum.
> 
> 
> As far as high VHF with this CM equipment I can receive the analog versions of the NY stations but the picture quality is not very good. I can also get NJ PBS digital 58.1 which is VHF 8. Although it will drop out now an then.
> 
> 
> I just took my coax off the Optimum connection and put it back on the antenna to monitor results leading up to 6.12 and beyond. (I went back to my cable setup because my OTA results were very up and down from day to day)
> 
> 
> I will be posting a few days before 6/12 reminding/asking volunteers to post their reception right before the cut over date and right after so we can all see the impact if any on receprtion.





I will be glad to offer my experiences hopefully that afternoon.


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16545337
> 
> 
> "AntennasDirect part " Which link was posted? Did I miss it? thanks for all the helpful info
> 
> 
> 
> You mean this link?
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ANTDRCT-COMBNR



That's the one.


The AntennasDirect part is probably overkill, since you don't really need the outdoor enclosure or the Antenna Mount Hardware, but I'm pretty certain that it will be a good solid part.


The Pico Macom part is actually better suited for your application (an indoor installation), I just hesitate to give it a full endorsement, since I have no experience with this brand. Worst case, it would probably still do as well as a plain old splitter (~3.5db loss).


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16546482
> 
> 
> That's the one.
> 
> 
> The AntennasDirect part is probably overkill, since you don't really need the outdoor enclosure or the Antenna Mount Hardware, but I'm pretty certain that it will be a good solid part.
> 
> 
> The Pico Macom part is actually better suited for your application (an indoor installation), I just hesitate to give it a full endorsement, since I have no experience with this brand. Worst case, it would probably still do as well as a plain old splitter (~3.5db loss).



Remember this will be a back up plan if the Clearstream C2 does not pick up the close 3 VHF stations after June 12th


I want to be able to get a part that fits in pocket and when/if my aunt complains I pull out the cheap part and say lets try this combiner. Of course I will get hell for having 2 Antenna's


Can never win lol



Since I have 3 stations of VHF then a jointenna would not work? Since it is meant for only 1 channel?


----------



## reddice

Two more weeks until the transition unless it gets delayed again and it better not. I just hope I can still get channels 7 and 11. If I can get 2 and 13 it will be a bonus.


----------



## LenL

I have been following your posts and from what I can find on the C2, and from what I can see the VHF transmistters are less than 20 miles away so you should have nothing to worry about.


My only concern is whether you use it inside or outside. Inside you could have a problem. If you place it outside my money is on the C2 working just fine for you given how close you are to the ESB.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16518401
> 
> 
> which tower do they use? Are they in NY?



I really don't know where they have tower, for sure their studio is in NJ,

but from where they sent out signal I don't know.

From roof top looking to downtown Brooklyn, there is one large rfTower(ch.24-25?),

then there are some hi-riser under construction with cranes on top and bet-

ween them in backround, obstructed to my vision, I see 6or8 tops of seems to be rfTowers

perhaps some kind of Combiner, have no clue what it is, but I pointed my outdoor roof Antenna in that direction, hoping to get 47-1, no luck.

Somewhere in Queens I can see 4 Towers, the top and bottom painted in red the middle white, those who live nearby should experiment and point their Antennas in that direction, see what happens.

Between ESB toward uptown there is hi-riser with 60degree roof and on roof is rfTower with blinking light, and between them there is another hi-riser with Antenna, perhaps some of the broad-

casters may put their transformators there to increase their chances to reach already lost clients

who are unable to get their TV signal.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16549817
> 
> 
> I have been following your posts and from what I can find on the C2, and from what I can see the VHF transmistters are less than 20 miles away so you should have nothing to worry about.
> 
> 
> My only concern is whether you use it inside or outside. Inside you could have a problem. If you place it outside my money is on the C2 working just fine for you given how close you are to the ESB.



TY Len but it for an INDOOR Apartment. That is my worry. I tried Radio shack and they had nothing.


So I will order the cheap $2 combiner just in case.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16549104
> 
> 
> Two more weeks until the transition unless it gets delayed again and it better not. I just hope I can still get channels 7 and 11. If I can get 2 and 13 it will be a bonus.



Are any warnings being aired locally about 7, 11 & 13 moving back to VHF? This is more for WABC and WPIX, since so many have had problems with WNET on 61 at low power.


I have yet to see any specific warnings in the LA area for the 4 stations that will move back to upper VHF.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16551718
> 
> 
> Are any warnings being aired locally about 7, 11 & 13 moving back to VHF? This is more for WABC and WPIX, since so many have had problems with WNET on 61 at low power.
> 
> 
> I have yet to see any specific warnings in the LA area for the 4 stations that will move back to upper VHF.



Try TVfool to see what stations are changing in June


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16549104
> 
> 
> If I can get 2 and 13 it will be a bonus.



If you can get 11 now, you'll have no problem getting 2 on 6/12.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16533797
> 
> 
> UHF band begins just above 400 MHZ.



The TV UHF band actually begins at 470MHz (UHF itself begins at 300MHz), and is actually higher than that in NYC since the lower UHF channels have been repurposed for public safety (NYPD, FDNY etc).


----------



## LenL

You may have mentioned this in an earlier post ...regarding your indoor antenna use ....do you at least have a line of sight through a window to the ESB? That would be good. My experience from 30 miles out is that it makes a big difference whether the antenna is indoors or outside. Since you are so close it may not matter that much but it would be very good to at least have a line of sight to the transmitters.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16553788
> 
> 
> You may have mentioned this in an earlier post ...regarding your indoor antenna use ....do you at least have a line of sight through a window to the ESB? That would be good. My experience from 30 miles out is that it makes a big difference whether the antenna is indoors or outside. Since you are so close it may not matter that much but it would be very good to at least have a line of sight to the transmitters.



Yea the wall with the TV faces the ESB area. There is also 1 window. I found with the terk-50 it made no differnce if it was on the wall or in window. The C2 may be different.


I think I convinced my aunt to use the NEW part you guys told me about. Of course she hates the 2 antenna idea. I told her just in case.


----------



## AloEuro

I think that many people thinking the broadcasters will go to full power in mid June, hoping that in mid June they will get the desired now truanced stations are postponing

the rude awakening.

Some boxes like Tivax-iNetAccess in Info box convey broadcasters provided info

about Strength-Quality-Speed of sent out signal.

Ch.2-1 WCBS-HD 1920x1080i 30 Hz Stereo, date,hour,program name,rating etc

CH.4-1 WNBC-DT 1920x1080i 30 Hz

4-2 WX Plus 704x480i 30 Hz the same for 4-4

Ch.5-1 WNYW-DT 1280x720p 60 Hz Dolby Surround

Also WABC7 and WWOR9 same as fox5 are in full power


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/16554952
> 
> 
> I think that many people thinking the broadcasters will go to full power in mid June, hoping that in mid June they will get the desired now truanced stations are postponing
> 
> the rude awakening.
> 
> Some boxes like Tivax-iNetAccess in Info box convey broadcasters provided info
> 
> about Strength-Quality-Speed of sent out signal.
> 
> Ch.2-1 WCBS-HD 1920x1080i 30 Hz Stereo, date,hour,program name,rating etc
> 
> CH.4-1 WNBC-DT 1920x1080i 30 Hz
> 
> 4-2 WX Plus 704x480i 30 Hz the same for 4-4
> 
> Ch.5-1 WNYW-DT 1280x720p 60 Hz Dolby Surround
> 
> Also WABC7 and WWOR9 same as fox5 are in full power



Little confused about your meaning. Are you saying some stations are at full power now? And they are WABC7 and WWOR9 same as fox5


Is there a website that shows the power for each station before and after June 12th?



I also heard that since most analog stations are going silent. That this will clear up the airwaves thus giving a better quality signal


----------



## fredd

Here in central Jersey it seems the closer we get to the digital transition the more NYC DT stations we lose. First Fox5 contours its southerly directed transmission signal to avoid interference with an A.C. station on UHF-44, now both ABC-DT & CBS-DT have practically disappeared. Are they just neglecting their current broadcast signals to concentrate on the new transition channels or is this the best we can expect here post-transition? WCBS-DT & WABC-DT used to be the strongest and stablest signals I received, but they have slowly gotten weaker and practically unwatchable since last August when they started work at the ESB transmitters. And what genius at the FCC assigned channel 44 to two NY area broadcasters located less than 60 miles apart? Please excuse the rant here, but I was expecting reception to improve with time not get worse.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i've noticed that, for some stations, the signal strength changes in the course of the week. maybe it has to do with weather alone, maybe it's that plus something else, like tests with the transmitter.


----------



## nordloewelabs

it will be very funny if June 12 comes and i find out that my improvised loop antenna can handle all channels.







however, due to the use of high VHF, i know chances are slim.


btw, the other day i did some experiments with a random 6' roll of coax i had laying around the apartment: i placed it near my "loop antenna" and, to my surprise, at a particular spot, the roll of coax was able to improve ABC's and CW's signal from 50 to 70%!


so if any of you guys already have some indoor setup (whatever that is), try to place metallic objects such as cables, wires, steelwool, frying pans, kitchen sink, etc, near or around your current antenna. also, try making a reflector using tinfoil and cardboard (check out EscapeVelocity's thread for a picture), then place it behind your antenna. i know, this all sounds very ninja, but sometimes little tweaks can improve reception by a lot. in sum -- if wifey allows it







-- try different things before buying a new antenna.

*

@AloEuro:* i, too, got confused. could you rephrase your post?


----------



## LenL

TVFool will show you (after you put in your address) the digital transmission from the TV station transmitters to your location in terms of transmission power and also reception signal strength before and after 6/12. The report takes into account your terrain etc...


I quote from TVFOOL:


The most important number to pay attention to is the Noise Margin, in the "NM(dB)" column, for each of your local channels. These values tell you if you are above or below the detection threshold for each station and by how much. Since these values represent the amount of signal "in the air" at your location, you need to have enough margin to account for building penetration, cable loss, splitters, tuner sensitivity, and other factors specific to your setup. If you take the initial NM value for a given channel, add your antenna gain, subtract all the other system losses, and still end up with a value above 0, then you should be able to detect that channel.


Another way to think about Noise Margin is that it's the total amount of noise or signal degradation that you can endure before the signal drops into an unusable state. Things like building penetration, cable loss, and splitters are just a few examples of things that might eat away at your available Noise Margin. If the Noise Margin ends up below zero after accounting for all the losses in your setup, then the channel is probably no longer watchable.


Antenna gain is the only quantity that should ever be ADDed to the NM value. Most antennas will specify their gain in dBd or simply dB, and this is the value that should be used. If an antenna's gain is specified in dBi units, then you need to subtract 2.15 in order to get the equivalent value in dBd units. If an antenna has a built-in amp, the extra gain from the amp SHOULD NOT be included as part of the antenna gain (this actually subtracts from the Noise Margin as we'll see next). Only the raw intrinsic gain of the physical antenna should be added to the Noise Margin.


Be aware that amps and pre-amps will actually cause you to lower your Noise Margin. No matter how much gain an amp or pre-amp claims, it will actually reduce your Noise Margin by the amount listed as the Noise Figure (NF) in its specs. High quality consumer-grade amps usually have a Noise Figure of around 2-3 dB. Lower quality amps or ones that do not specify a noise figure at all will probably have a Noise Figure of around 6-10 dB. This is true for both stand-alone amps as well as antennas with built-in amps. This Noise Margin degradation is caused by limited efficiency of the electronics at the input of the amp prior to the signal being boosted. The primary benefit of the amp is to overcome further NM degradation from "downstream" losses (e.g., long cable runs, splitters, tuners with poor sensitivity, etc.). In other words, you suffer the amp's Noise Figure degradation once, and can usually ignore most of the other losses that occur after it.


----------



## DTVintermods

*No matter how much gain an amp or pre-amp claims, it will actually reduce your Noise Margin by the amount listed as the Noise Figure (NF) in its specs.*


They should not call it NM but signal to noise margin.

The factory NF may be 20dB lower than the actual when the antenna is connected to the tuner/amplifier and the complex impedance of the antenna is mismatched with the input of the tuner amplifier!


----------



## LenL

Agreeing with you and telling me to remove my preamp and see if I get better reception which I will do after 6/12 in a test. Problem is my antenna is way high on the house and was professionally installed so I need to get a family member who sky dives to do it for me......a very good option for me....


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16561726
> 
> 
> Agreeing with you and telling me to remove my preamp and see if I get better reception which I will do after 6/12 in a test. Problem is my antenna is way high on the house and was professionally installed so I need to get a family member who sky dives to do it for me......a very good option for me....



Skydives on roofs? lol good luck


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16559932
> 
> *No matter how much gain an amp or pre-amp claims, it will actually reduce your Noise Margin by the amount listed as the Noise Figure (NF) in its specs.*
> 
> 
> They should not call it NM but signal to noise margin.
> 
> The factory NF may be 20dB lower than the actual when the antenna is connected to the tuner/amplifier and the complex impedance of the antenna is mismatched with the input of the tuner amplifier!



One point is the preamps do have a limit of current the transisters can carry. When a weak signal alone goes into a 25 db gain preamp like say -35 the signal will go up to a -10. But the noise of the preamp is brought into tunner also. thus if the pre amp noise is 5 db the signal to noise level may not go up 25 db but instead just 20db because 5 db of the 25 db gain is in noise. Also that is wiht just one channel. If you have a strong channel the current on the transister in the preamp may be exceed the specifications of the design. Thus too many strong channels may make even more noise. Indoor amps like you would connect tv cable to can carry more current because they have bigger transisters. But they may also have more noise. But when they are carrying more channels & maybe strong channels their noise level does not go up. None of the preamp or amps tell the sensitivity or what the weakest signal is that they will detect & amplify. But my guess is the preamps will have detect a weaker signal but like I said the preamps have their other gain/current limits. If an antenna is in a attic I recomend using an indoor amp.


While the analog stations are still on the air you can see the noise on the screen of some of the weaker stations. The snow will not look like regular snow. If any one has a floor in the attic & a portable tv they could try connecting the antenna directly to the antenna & taking now of quality of the screen. Then connect the antenna through an amp or preamp & take note of the snow on the screen. You there will see the noise the amp or preamp caused. I have seen some channels so strong the garbled a good channel. This will be the last time to use analog for noise test. After 6-12-09 when on digital we will have no easy way of knowing what the preamp noise is doing to the digital signal.


----------



## LenL

My assumption is that if you are a sky diver you are not afraid of heights and would go on the roof easily unlike me...


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16552003
> 
> 
> Try TVfool to see what stations are changing in June



I was thinking about PSA's. Are local PSA's warning viewers of these specific DTV to DTV changes (e.g. UHF > VHF) or are they just generic and say to re-scan?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16563178
> 
> 
> My assumption is that if you are a sky diver you are not afraid of heights and would go on the roof easily unlike me...



UNLESS your ex-wife is on the roof first!


----------



## LenL

This is not funny for me....once I get over 10 feet on a ladder I start getting uneasy. Definite phobia over being up high. I have tried over the years to get over it but I only got better by being able to go from 5 feet to 10 feet on a ladder. Big improvement but not nearly enough to get me on the second story roof!


So bottom line is I don't care who goes up on the roof as long as they are OK with it and stay safe.


My sky diving daughter is my first choice and she said to let her know when I wanted her to do it. I assume if you sky dive you are not afraid of heights....she does not have my genes that's for sure.


----------



## LenL

The PSAs I have seen vary. Some in the NY area say you may need to rescan or your equipment may handle the change. Some warn that you may need a new antenna and/or a converter box. Some also point you to a number of websites and phone numbers for help. Some are also warning that you may not receive some of the stations you currently do.


The PSAs have been much better the past few months than they were last year or even early this year.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16555044
> 
> 
> Little confused about your meaning. Are you saying some stations are at full power now? And they are WABC7 and WWOR9 same as fox5
> 
> 
> Is there a website that shows the power for each station before and after June 12th?
> 
> 
> 
> I also heard that since most analog stations are going silent. That this will clear up the airwaves thus giving a better quality signal



I don't know about website, but conv.boxes like Tivax-iNetSSR1921 in the

INFO box provide broadcasters sent info about signal strength the i and p and

Frame Rate speed at 60 Hz or half at 30 Hz.

Ch.5-1 WNYW-DT 1280x720p Frame Rate speed at 60Hz

Ch.7-1 WABC-HD 1280x720p 60Hz

Ch.9-1 WWOR-DT 1280x720p 60Hz

Ch.31-1 ION 1280x720p 60Hz

Only the primary channels -1 are at full power/speed

Ch.11-1 WPIX 1920x1080i 30Hz WNET13-1 HD the same

Other channels have lower p-i I must go now


----------



## SnellKrell

"Is there a website that shows the power for each station before and after June 12th?"


Try this - http://www.rabbitears.info/index.php 


and click on the "Spreadsheet" Link.


Happy Hunting!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/16565465
> 
> 
> I don't know about website, but conv.boxes like Tivax-iNetSSR1921 in the
> 
> INFO box provide broadcasters sent info about signal strength the i and p and
> 
> Frame Rate speed at 60 Hz or half at 30 Hz.



Those numbers have nothing to do with signal strength.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16566635
> 
> 
> Those numbers have nothing to do with signal strength.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I didn't think so ,but since I am not expert I was tending to believe this info


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16567808
> 
> 
> I didn't think so ,but since I am not expert I was tending to believe this info





Here is your channel assignments and broadcast power


http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_...ew_York_NY.pdf


----------



## redchamberdream

hi everyone


i have a question about possibility of getting a signal for over the air HDTV....

i'm only 20 blocks away from empire state building however i lived in 2nd floor and have no access to my roof.... is it even worth to try to get an antenna?

thanks for your help!


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *redchamberdream* /forum/post/16571690
> 
> 
> hi everyone
> 
> 
> i have a question about possibility of getting a signal for over the air HDTV....
> 
> i'm only 20 blocks away from empire state building however i lived in 2nd floor and have no access to my roof.... is it even worth to try to get an antenna?
> 
> thanks for your help!



YES.....Silver Sensor http://electronics.shop.ebay.com/ite...86Q2ec0Q2em282 


I only have experience with the one that looks like an arrowhead. Can't vouch for the surfboard looking one


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/16571505
> 
> 
> Here is your channel assignments and broadcast power
> 
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_...ew_York_NY.pdf



Not sure how to read that. Just shows coverage gained not extra power for excising areas???


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16571818
> 
> 
> Not sure how to read that. Just shows coverage gained not extra power for excising areas???



It shows the coverage area and power output of the analog and digital transmitters. It's rather straightforward


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/16571838
> 
> 
> It shows the coverage area and power output of the analog and digital transmitters. It's rather straightforward



Yes but does not show the old output to compare if power will increase and if so by how much?


Or am I just not getting it?


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16571855
> 
> 
> Yes but does not show the old output to compare if power will increase and if so by how much?
> 
> 
> Or am I just not getting it?




I believe that will be the final power output. I think the coverage area

pretty much indicates who will be able to receive the signals. If I'm not mistaken

UHF carries further and doesn't need as much power to cover the same area.


Your handle doesn't indicate where you are located. Where might that be?


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *redchamberdream* /forum/post/16571690
> 
> 
> hi everyone
> 
> 
> i have a question about possibility of getting a signal for over the air HDTV....
> 
> i'm only 20 blocks away from empire state building however i lived in 2nd floor and have no access to my roof.... is it even worth to try to get an antenna?
> 
> thanks for your help!



After 6/12 WABC, WPIX and WNET will revert from UHF to channels 7,11 and 13. If their current analog indoor reception is noisy, chances are that unless you buy a good Hi-VHF/UHF indoor antenna you may not get reliable DTV reception.

A good _indoor_ antenna that provides directionality and impedance match at Hi-V/UHF will have a minimum size of 20x20x5 inches and I have not seen any such consumer-type antenna. I know some may dispute that.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16572429
> 
> 
> A good _indoor_ antenna that provides directionality and impedance match at Hi-V/UHF will have a minimum size of 20x20x5 inches and I have not seen any such consumer-type antenna. I know some may dispute that.



I won't dispute physics. This is going to be a problem, when the "best" indoor antennas are rabbit ears. Good gain/directionality is common for UHF indoor antennas, but the size requirements make it impractical for even upper VHF. Low-VHF, well, let's not even go there.


----------



## DTVintermods

And I think that made Moviebeam on channel 7 unreliable for over-the-air downloads.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/16572227
> 
> 
> I believe that will be the final power output. I think the coverage area
> 
> pretty much indicates who will be able to receive the signals. If I'm not mistaken
> 
> UHF carries further and doesn't need as much power to cover the same area.
> 
> 
> Your handle doesn't indicate where you are located. Where might that be?



queens NY


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16573173
> 
> 
> queens NY



You ought to be ok. My mom was able to pull WABC in on rabbit ears

crystal clear and she lived in Bayside right near the Throgsneck Briidge


----------



## nordloewelabs

i'm not receiving WNYE 25.1 anymore. did they change anything?


----------



## SnellKrell

My signal for 25.1 has been going in and out.


No stability.


Usually no problem in receiving it!


----------



## SnellKrell

Just noticed, no signal at all for 36.1 - WNJU-DT.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16574024
> 
> 
> My signal for 25.1 has been going in and out.
> 
> 
> No stability.
> 
> 
> Usually no problem in receiving it!



my signal on WNYE 25.1 is around 74%, according to my CM-7000. however, the screen is black.



EDIT: just noticed something. the CM-7000 also shows WNYE as 24.1 at 74% strength. unlike what happens on channel 25.1 where i get no picture, at 24.1 the picture is fine....


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16572943
> 
> 
> And I think that made Moviebeam on channel 7 unreliable for over-the-air downloads.



I didn't know Moviebeam ever even got going. Also, I thought it was on 13.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16572703
> 
> 
> I won't dispute physics. This is going to be a problem, when the "best" indoor antennas are rabbit ears. Good gain/directionality is common for UHF indoor antennas, but the size requirements make it impractical for even upper VHF. Low-VHF, well, let's not even go there.



Technically, a VHF bowtie is probably better than rabbit ears. That's my experience, anyway.










- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16574176
> 
> 
> I didn't know Moviebeam ever even got going. Also, I thought it was on 13.- Trip



Moviebeam is Disney/ABC's venture, mostly channels 7 but may be other Hi-V channels in some locations. Still it's hard, very hard, to download without errors into indoor antennas on channels 7-13


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16574277
> 
> 
> Moviebeam is Disney/ABC's venture, mostly channels 7 but may be other Hi-V channels in some locations. Still it's hard, very hard, to download without errors into indoor antennas on channels 7-13



Disney might be behind it, but IIRC it's part of National Datacast which is on PBS stations (13). I don't see it in KABC's datastream, or any of the other ABC O&Os I've observed. (I don't have a recent capture of WABC to check against.)


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

moviebeam is feeding programming to medium and small hotels and is planning to provide its service to homes in India and the Middle East.


The following is from moviebeam's Web site.


"moviebeam was initially founded by Disney in 2002 to deliver digital movies to Set Top Boxes (STBs) at home, using the extra bandwidth of television broadcast towers. It was re-launched in 2005 with backing from Disney, Intel and Cisco, and its second generation STB reaching over 10,000 homes in 33 large US markets. It was later purchased by Moviegallery (the 2nd largest video rental chain in the US) in January 2007, which introduced digital delivery to the STB via broadband internet access. moviebeam was acquired by Valuable Technologies Ltd. (VTL) in May 2008 from Moviegallery.


The moviebeam service was conceived specifically for delivery of digital content (primarily movies) to millions of consumer homes using state-of-the-art technology for efficiency and reliability. An estimated $250 million has been spent developing the system/service prior to sale to VTL. moviebeam was operational in over 10,000 homes for nearly 3 years and is a working system with operational excellence."


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16574176
> 
> 
> Technically, a VHF bowtie is probably better than rabbit ears. That's my experience, anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yes, but I'm not sure it counts as an indoor antenna, considering the width. I can't see many people trying to put it on top of a TV.










I took mine out of the attic, but will try it again when I have some VHF DTV signals available.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16574507
> 
> 
> Yes, but I'm not sure it counts as an indoor antenna, considering the width. I can't see many people trying to put it on top of a TV.



I use mine indoors.










- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Falcon -


What about the small, indoor clip on Bowties - usually with 300 ohm ribbon attached?


----------



## SubaruB4

Did anyone have issues with 9-1 yesterday? it's been so bad sometimes I have to switch to analog just to be able to watch my show.


Are some stations still running on reduced power levels?


Channel 4-1,4-2,4-3 are still pretty crappy however it seems to be better off later during the night time.


----------



## Falcon_77

Like the Radio Shack one?:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...17&tab=summary 


Those are made for UHF.


The upper VHF ones are about 22" on each side. Mine was a bit wider, so maybe I will shorten the sides to see how it performs.


----------



## SnellKrell

25.1 is now steady.


36.1 still nothing!


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, I was thinking of the UHF version.


Have never seen an upper VHF one.


Once again, I'm learning!


----------



## speedlaw

Power drop on Tuesday, 6/12 ?


I'm ota only, about 40 miles north of NYC. I normally get 5.1 and 2.1 at 100 or close to it, and 13.1 at 65%.


Tonite, everything is less. 5.1 is only 72% and 13.1 has dropped below 60%. My early sony tuner can't resolve it but my later model Toshiba can.


It appears to be a uniform power drop across all channels. Yes, my antenna and wires are the same, and my analog signals look the same too.


Anyone else ? Pre transition antenna work ?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *redchamberdream* /forum/post/16571690
> 
> 
> hi everyone
> 
> 
> i have a question about possibility of getting a signal for over the air HDTV....
> 
> i'm only 20 blocks away from empire state building however i lived in 2nd floor and have no access to my roof.... is it even worth to try to get an antenna?
> 
> thanks for your help!



Make sure what ever you buy that if does not receive the channels you can return it for a refund. If the indoor antenna does not get VHF high band like ch 7 strong enough & If you nothing is under your bed, you could put a high gain vhf hi band yagi antenna under your bed if your bed is positioned wiht the head board toward the ESB. UHF may go inside stronger Than VHF.


So do like the others said, Try the VHF analog & report to us what you see on the tv screen. While you are doing the test check the analog UHF stations you receive from the ESB. But do it soon because is not much time left to use analog tv stations as a test for signal


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16574706
> 
> 
> Have never seen an upper VHF one.



Here is a link to the upper VHF bow-tie I made. I shortened the elements to 24" last night and the results seem ok on analog, but I will check again after the transition. I will also probably convert it to a 2-bay as it's much more manageable now. Maybe this will be practical indoors after all.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post13986962


----------



## SnellKrell

Falcon, thanks as always!


Too large for my Manhattan apartment.


Will wait to see how my Silver Sensor deals with digital 7, 11 and 13!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16577713
> 
> 
> Falcon, thanks as always!
> 
> 
> To large for my Manhattan apartment.
> 
> 
> Will wait to see how my Silver Sensor deals with digital 7, 11 and 13!



Use it as a FUNKY new AGE HEADBOARD.


----------



## redchamberdream

forgive me being a newbie


why would i want to use VHF analog to test if analog will not be available after 6/12?


----------



## LenL

VHF analog is readily available for you to test and the assumption is if you can receive it than you should get VHF digital.


I have an alternative for you that may be better. There are VHF Digital stations operating right now. One of them is a NJ PBS WNJB station that is VHF 8 digital or 58.1.


If you can tune it in you are then receiving a high VHF digital station and so should be able to receive 7, 11, and 13 which will be all be high VHF on 6/12. No guarantees here but a good chance.


On the other hand if you can't receive WNJB it means that you probably won't get the others but not certain until you try on 6/12.


I'm not an expert but I hope this helps. Others with more expertise can chime in to help you.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16579077
> 
> 
> I have an alternative for you that may be better. There are VHF Digital stations operating right now. One of them is a NJ PBS WNJB station that is VHF 8 digital or 58.1.



WNJB is still operating from NJ (West of Plainfield), right? It will be moving to 4TS (by October), so it may not be a good guide at present.


Analog WABC/7 is operating from an Aux facility on 4TS right now I believe, so that may be a good test for WNJB, post-transition. WPIX/11 and WNET/13 should be more accurate indicators for 7, 11 & 13.


Attached are a couple of analog VHF pics. If it looks like the first one, chances are very low. If it looks like the 2nd, chances are much better.


----------



## SnellKrell

The quality of 7's signal, if one wants to consider it and not 8's, must be judged taking into consideration, as has been mentioned that it is currently emanating from 4 Times Square, not its location as of 6/12 - the ESB.


11 is not necessarily a good guide because it's been operating at 50% of its analogue power as it converts its transmitter to digital in preparation of the transition.


13 is going to be a big question mark.


I tested the ability of the new 13 transmitter and its new digital antenna location and had big, big problems in my apartment in Manhattan. No problems with the current Channel 61 transmission, but the digital 13 - problems!


----------



## LenL

I have been checking out this sub channel and I have to admit I have found a few of the shows to be excellent. The show that covers hikes (Motion) is excellent. Some great scenery, secrets and tips on what to do in the national and state parks. Also a cooking show that I caught a couple of times has been good. There is also a very good program on medical issues/wellness.


While I don't like the subs drawing to much from the main channel in terms of picture quality 7.2 offers some nice stuff. Better than NBC's subs. I wish NBC would just put CNBC and MSNBC on their 2 subs.


----------



## SnellKrell

No way will NBC put any of their cable networks on an O-T-A feed.


Approximately 1/2 of a major cable network's revenue comes from fees that a local cable provider pays per subscriber. It translates into a lot of money!


By the way 36.1 was coming fine this morning and now it's signal, one again, when it registers, is so low - no reception.


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *redchamberdream* /forum/post/16578657
> 
> 
> forgive me being a newbie



You are forgiven, my son.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *redchamberdream* /forum/post/16578657
> 
> 
> why would i want to use VHF analog to test if analog will not be available after 6/12?



The nature of digital is such that it can be hard to determine the quality of the signal you are receiving. Digital is all or nothing. You either get a perfect picture or a blank screen. Analog TV acts like a signal tester allowing you to see every reflection and blip of interference right there on the screen.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16579077
> 
> 
> I have an alternative for you that may be better. There are VHF Digital stations operating right now. One of them is a NJ PBS WNJB station that is VHF 8 digital or 58.1.
> 
> 
> If you can tune it in you are then receiving a high VHF digital station and so should be able to receive 7, 11, and 13 which will be all be high VHF on 6/12. No guarantees here but a good chance.
> 
> 
> On the other hand if you can't receive WNJB it means that you probably won't get the others but not certain until you try on 6/12.



I can get channel 3.1 which is on VHF channel 3, but I've never been able to get the slightest hint of 58.1/(8). I get all of the VHF analog stations crystal clear.


Location: Brooklyn, NY 11236


----------



## LenL

I'm about as far away from 8 (58.1) as you are and I can get it. The transmitters are in NJ so you can't point your antenna at the ESB and receive it...just in case you did not know. I suspect you know this....not sure why I get it and you don't. However I do get it and my antenna is not pointed at it optimally as I am pointed at the ESB and the transmitters are to the right of my ESB direction. So I think it is a very good sign that when and if 58.1 moves to NY I will get it even better even though it might be further away.


----------



## LenL

I understand your point but just about everything OTA is on cable or satellite and vice versa.


Unless you have proof NBC has some contractual mandate that does not allow it to feed CNBC or MSNBC to OTA then I have hope. Also why would cable allow them to feed Satellite and not OTA?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16583750
> 
> 
> While I don't like the subs drawing to much from the main channel in terms of picture quality 7.2 offers some nice stuff. Better than NBC's subs. I wish NBC would just put CNBC and MSNBC on their 2 subs.



i'd rather get USA, but that would never happen, i think. but i agree with you, CNBC or MSNBC would be great! according to Wikipedia, NBC owns the channels below. there are better options (Edit: better than the sub-channels they are broadcasting now).


A&E Television Networks (25%)

Bravo

Chiller

CNBC

MSNBC

Mun2

Oxygen

Qubo (kids channel)

Sci Fi

ShopNBC

Sleuth

Telemundo Internacional

The Weather Channel

Universal HD

USA Network

Universal Sports (50%)

Weatherscan


Edit: NBC partially owns Qubo, which is a sub-channel of Ion right now.


----------



## SnellKrell

That's rich, I have to provide you proof?


----------



## LenL

No. Don't get me wrong. Not trying to bust your chops on this. I am simply asking if this was an assumption or you knew this from something you saw. That's all. I'm hoping that the door is still open for NBC to give us some better programming on their sub channels since they already have some much better stuff out there on cable and satellite as we just had posted a list (thank you) of all the programming coming from NBCs owners.


----------



## nordloewelabs

*LenL* has got a point. NBC already has channels from Cable and Satellite. my guess is that, initially, they will only put low-key stations on their sub-channels....as a way to "try the waters". once people get used to digital broadcast and the concept of sub-channels, they will get better stuff on their "subs". the fact that they have dumped the Weather channel in favour of NY Non-Stop shows they have an interest in improving. perhaps, in 12 months, they will make more changes.


it's obvious that, the higher the number of sub-channel viewers, the better for NBC. and, given that they already have the frequency and equipment in place, there's no reason for them not to boost viewership. unless, of course, they are bound to some contract that explicitly prohibits them from broadcasting a paid channel over the air.... however, even if they are, we should remember that contracts expire and things change.


does anyone know of any plans by CBS, FOX, MY9 or CW to start using sub-channels? it's strange that these big networks dont have any subs while ION has 2!!!


----------



## SnellKrell

I have worked in television for many years - NBC and other owners of "Cable Networks" license their programming to both cable operators and satellite providers for monthly fees that are based on the number of subscribers they provided.



This is the business model and there's nothing currently that would lead one to believe that it's going to change in the foreseeable future.


I agree with you about about Channel 4's sub-channel programming. NY Nonstop is an embarrassment! But you have to realize it is coming to your from the same management that on a daily basis is killing Channel 4 News.


----------



## mets18




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16584747
> 
> 
> I understand your point but just about everything OTA is on cable or satellite and vice versa.



This is just an absurd comment. If just about everything that is on cable is on OTA then nobody would spend $50+ a month on cable.


----------



## NYC10033

Two or three days ago I spent a few minutes listening to 50-3 (Audio Only subchannel) NJN2 and heard the speaker reading some literary stuff that contained "the F bomb".


That surprised me.


Also 50-3 has some really unpolished (non-announcer) people reading stuff. I have no idea what 50-3 is about.



I have a feeling that my indoor UHF antenna won't work well for me to receive DTV channels that relocate to VHF. I might buy a $20 Radio Shack indoor antenna.



Why isn't ONE unused VHF channel (in NYC metro area) 8, 10,12 used to broadcast tests so the public can test their equipment for DTV VHF reception PRIOR to June 12th?


My landlord will not permit tenants to install rooftop antennas. All antennas were removed several years ago when the roof was waterproofed. The landlord claims that the antenna, people walking on the roof, caused the roof to leak. (BS). I think the landlord got some payoff from the cable company (Time Warner) to eliminate rooftop antennas to get people to subscribe to cable. I've used an indoor antenna for years since my rooftop antenna was removed, without any notice, and my reception has been AWFUL. DTV has been a BIG improvement - all I need is 13 and ideally 21 WLIW and I'll be really happy.


----------



## SnellKrell

Channels 8, 10 and 12 are not authorized to broadcast in the NY DMA.


Those channels are being used by surrounding markets.


If, and that's a huge "if," what you suggest were to happen, the interference would be a huge problem.


Also, you haven't considered the tremendous cost in a station/stations building a new temporary facility to test what you suggest.


Further, as an example, a test transmitting Channel 10 in now way would represent what might be received on Channel 11 in the future.


Good try, but no cigar!


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16584466
> 
> 
> I can get channel 3.1 which is on VHF channel 3



What station is this? Is it WBQM-LP? I see an app for it on 3 with Brooklyn as the Community of License. What antenna are you using? Are you above the ground floor?


Thanks,


----------



## supersuper

what are you smoking? who would pay for a transmitter on 8,10,12 just for testing purposes. either you get a signal or you dont. even if there were 8,10,12 test it would interfere with analog 7,9,11,13 genius



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16585279
> 
> 
> Two or three days ago I spent a few minutes listening to 50-3 (Audio Only subchannel) NJN2 and heard the speaker reading some literary stuff that contained "the F bomb".
> 
> 
> That surprised me.
> 
> 
> Also 50-3 has some really unpolished (non-announcer) people reading stuff. I have no idea what 50-3 is about.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling that my indoor UHF antenna won't work well for me to receive DTV channels that relocate to VHF. I might buy a $20 Radio Shack indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> Why isn't ONE unused VHF channel (in NYC metro area) 8, 10,12 used to broadcast tests so the public can test their equipment for DTV VHF reception PRIOR to June 12th?
> 
> 
> My landlord will not permit tenants to install rooftop antennas. All antennas were removed several years ago when the roof was waterproofed. The landlord claims that the antenna, people walking on the roof, caused the roof to leak. (BS). I think the landlord got some payoff from the cable company (Time Warner) to eliminate rooftop antennas to get people to subscribe to cable. I've used an indoor antenna for years since my rooftop antenna was removed, without any notice, and my reception has been AWFUL. DTV has been a BIG improvement - all I need is 13 and ideally 21 WLIW and I'll be really happy.


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16585350
> 
> 
> Channels 8, 10 and 12 are not authorized to broadcast in the NY DMA.
> 
> 
> Those channels are being used by surrounding markets.
> 
> 
> If, and that's a huge "if," what you suggest were to happen, the interference would be a huge problem.
> 
> 
> Also, you haven't considered the tremendous cost in a station/stations building a new temporary facility to test what you suggest.
> 
> 
> Further, as an example, a test transmitting Channel 10 in now way would represent what might be received on Channel 11 in the future.
> 
> 
> Good try, but no cigar!



Why do you claim that a limited duration (lets say 15 minutes, every night at 12 AM) DTV test on Channel 10 would not represent expected reception on VHF Channel 11?


VHF Hi ranges from 174 - 216 MHz.


Channel 10 is in the middle of the VHF Hi band.


Channel 10 is 192 - 198 Mhz

Channel 11 is 198 - 204 Mhz



Plus the NYC DMA is the larget market in the US - 7.4 million households. Why should 7.4 million households suddenly find out on same day that their current antenna is inadequate for DTV reception on VHF Hi?


There will be sudden run on new antennas, old antennas being junked, complaints.


You get the picture.


----------



## supersuper

cw already has LATV as a subchannel. ION has subchannels but they are crap and pay ION for carriage.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16585010
> 
> 
> 
> does anyone know of any plans by CBS, FOX, MY9 or CW to start using sub-channels? it's strange that these big networks dont have any subs while ION has 2!!!


----------



## supersuper

out of those 7.4 million how many still rely on an antenna? wake up most people have cable or satellite.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16586033
> 
> 
> Why do you claim that a limited duration (lets say 15 minutes, every night at 12 AM) DTV test on Channel 10 would not represent expected reception on VHF Channel 11?
> 
> 
> VHF Hi ranges from 174 - 216 MHz.
> 
> 
> Channel 10 is in the middle of the VHF Hi band.
> 
> 
> Channel 10 is 192 - 198 Mhz
> 
> Channel 11 is 198 - 204 Mhz
> 
> 
> 
> Plus the NYC DMA is the larget market in the US - 7.4 million households. Why should 7.4 million households suddenly find out on same day that their current antenna is inadequate for DTV reception on VHF Hi?
> 
> 
> There will be sudden run on new antennas, old antennas being junked, complaints.
> 
> 
> You get the picture.


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supersuper* /forum/post/16586050
> 
> 
> out of those 7.4 million how many still rely on an antenna? wake up most people have cable or satellite.



Apparently enough to warrant OTA DTV.


----------



## SnellKrell

Huh?????


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16585010
> 
> 
> 
> does anyone know of any plans by CBS, FOX, MY9 or CW to start using sub-channels? it's strange that these big networks dont have any subs while ION has 2!!!



Actually, WPXN (ION) has 3 subs. WCBS had no plans for subs, thankfully. The reason I say thankfully is you have to remember that any subchannels added will take away bandwidth from the main channel, which usually means a degraded picture. If you don't believe me, just look at WABC.


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supersuper* /forum/post/16586025
> 
> 
> what are you smoking? who would pay for a transmitter on 8,10,12 just for testing purposes. either you get a signal or you dont. even if there were 8,10,12 test it would interfere with analog 7,9,11,13 genius



The same people who paid for the $40 coupons for DTV converter boxes, genius?


----------



## StudioTech

^^^ Wow, just.... wow!


----------



## DTVintermods

Actually, testing may not be needed..

For example WVUE has filed with the FCC to continue DTV on ch 29 instead of ch 8. Below is the first paragraph from their submission.

There's also anecdotal evidence of reception problems on Hi-VHF DTV channels in Denver and Atlanta


EXPEDITED TREATMENT REQUESTED

EXHIBIT 21

Louisiana Media Company, LLC WVUE-DT, New Orleans, LA

Request for Special Temporary Authority to

Facility ID No. 4149

Restore Pre-Transition Digital Television Service and to Terminate Service on Post-Transition Channel

Louisiana Media Company, LLC (“Louisiana Media”), licensee of full-power commercial television station WVUE-DT, New Orleans, Louisiana (Facility ID No. 4149) (“WVUE” or the “Station”), hereby requests special temporary authority to restore digital service on WVUE’s pre-transition digital channel 29 and to terminate digital service on WVUE’s posttransition digital channel 8. As described below, a significant number of viewers throughout WVUE’s predicted service area have reported (and are continuing to report) the complete loss of digital service from WVUE since the Station began to operate exclusively on digital channel 8. Accordingly, Louisiana Media respectfully requests expedited processing of this request so that WVUE may promptly restore service to disenfranchised viewers and continue to compete effectively in the New Orleans television market. The proposed channel 29 facilities will replicate the service area formerly served by WVUE’s analog channel 8 facilities and will ensure that all of the Station’s former analog and pre-transition digital viewers will once again receive service.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16585680
> 
> 
> What station is this? Is it WBQM-LP? I see an app for it on 3 with Brooklyn as the Community of License. What antenna are you using? Are you above the ground floor?
> 
> 
> Thanks,



Any shows? What is on it?
*


WBQM-LP is a low-power television station licensed to Brooklyn, New York as an affiliate of Cornerstone Television. It is owned by Renard Communications Corp., and broadcasts on VHF channel 3.


On August 17, 2007, Renard Communications announced that would sell WBQM-LP, along with sister station WMBQ-CA to Equity Media Holdings for $8 million. [1] However, the transaction had a closing deadline set for June 1, 2008, and either party could cancel the sale if it were not completed by then. As of this revision, the sale has not been consummated. [2]


As of December 8, 2008 Equity Media Holdings is in chapter 11 bankruptcy.*


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16586138
> 
> 
> The reason I say thankfully is you have to remember that any subchannels added will take away bandwidth from the main channel, which usually means a degraded picture. If you don't believe me, just look at WABC.



i dont watch ABC so i cant tell how much the sub-channels mess up the main channel. what i can tell is that NBC looks fine, despite the subs. so maybe ABC has been excessively sloppy in some way.


btw, in my CM-7000, MY9 is s sub-channel of FOX. and i get each of those 2 stations in 3 different channels.


----------



## SnellKrell

The difference between NBC's subchannels and ABC's is that ABC broadcasts one of the subchannels in HD - stealing more bandwidth from 7.1!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16586885
> 
> 
> i dont watch ABC so i cant tell how much the sub-channels mess up the main channel. what i can tell is that NBC looks fine, despite the subs. so maybe ABC has been excessively sloppy in some way.
> 
> 
> btw, in my CM-7000, MY9 is s sub-channel of FOX. and i get each of those 2 stations in 3 different channels.



Yes, ABC has 2 HD channels and NBC just one


----------



## supersuper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16586105
> 
> 
> Apparently enough to warrant OTA DTV.



there is no doubt there will be thousands if not millions across the country unprepared. but out of 7.4 million homes in nyc area, *most* have cable or satellite. the number that rely on ota is nowhere near 7.4 million einstein.


----------



## supersuper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16586142
> 
> 
> The same people who paid for the $40 coupons for DTV converter boxes, genius?


 http://voices.washingtonpost.com/pos...t_of_mone.html


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supersuper* /forum/post/16586050
> 
> 
> out of those 7.4 million how many still rely on an antenna? wake up most people have cable or satellite.



I still watch some local channels OTA even though I have them on Dish Network because the PQ is much better than the over compression of the Dish Network feeds.


----------



## BrooklynGal




Attached are a couple of analog VHF pics. If it looks like the first one said:


> Since i currently don't get 13 except via analog passthrough, i've invested plenty of time getting it (& 50) as perfect as I can.
> 
> Using analog pass through on the Zenith DT901 & fiddling with UFO's position, the number setting for the UHF, leaving my amp on 3, & then adjusting the angle & length of the rabbit ears, channels 13 (& 50) usually are gorgeous! (with some slight static & the occasional interference blip appearing periodically to make me tear my hair out) though there are bad hair days here & there. Channel 2 usually makes picture 1 look like a masterpiece of clarity, though. However, since 2 is low vhf & will transmit via UHF, I haven't really bothered getting it right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7 & 11 obviously are important to me, though. Their reception is less much less consistent than 13, ranging from I can't get reception at all to reception which varies between pic 1 & 2. I haven't found a "magic" position or series of adjustments that works for one of them yet, either. Ditto for channels 4, 5, & 9. I'm guessing since on occasion I can get each of them as good as pic 2 (but never more than 1 or 2 stations at once out of them all!) that the rest of the time the issue is something other than my antenna. I wish I knew what it is, though, in case it's something I can adjust or adjust to.
> 
> 
> Of the 3 vhf stations, it's PBS that I'll be most unhappy not to receive, so for now I'm waiting for the moment of truth & hoping that with the increase in power, I really will get 13 digitally. Of course, I'd still like to watch good morning america, dancing with the stars, olympics, & the honeymooners & old movies, so I hope 7 & 11 work out as well.


----------



## reddice

Me too BrooklynGal. Right now channel 7 is my strongest channel but I have no idea how it would come on high VHF. I know people say but look it you can get the analog channel good. I have gotten the analog channels clear but when it is digital I got nothing. Just look at CV 34. Analog was clear and watchable. Now that they switched it over to digital all I get is a black low signal screen or a bunch of pixlated boxes on screen. I just hope my channel 7 and 11 reception is not like that in 8 days.


Also I would love to be able to get channel 13 when it moves to high VHF since the Dish Network feed is pathetic at best. They take the 16:9 screen and downcoverted it to 480i and then center crop it to 4:3 so many programs have the thirteen HD logo but it is cut off. They refuse to carry in it HD except for DirecTV and TWC which has it in HD.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16586885
> 
> 
> i dont watch ABC so i cant tell how much the sub-channels mess up the main channel. what i can tell is that NBC looks fine, despite the subs. so maybe ABC has been excessively sloppy in some way.
> 
> 
> btw, in my CM-7000, MY9 is s sub-channel of FOX. and i get each of those 2 stations in 3 different channels.



9 and 5 "back up" each other with SD versions on their .2 subchannels.


So this means 9.2 is a SD version of 5.1, and 5.2 is a SD version of 9.1.


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16584747
> 
> 
> I understand your point but just about everything OTA is on cable or satellite and vice versa.
> 
> 
> Unless you have proof NBC has some contractual mandate that does not allow it to feed CNBC or MSNBC to OTA then I have hope. Also why would cable allow them to feed Satellite and not OTA?



First of all, Satellite is not the same as OTA. It's encrypted and you have to pay for it.


Think of it this way. Suppose you own a store that sells Hershey bars. Then one day Hershey sets up a stand in front of your store where they give away Hershey bars for free. It won't be long before your customers figure out that there's no sense in them buying the bars from you when they can get them for free. As a result you stop buying bars from Hershey since no one is buying them from you. If NBC starts giving away their cable channels for free, the cable companies won't want to pay as much for them.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/16590727
> 
> 
> 9 and 5 "back up" each other with SD versions on their .2 subchannels.
> 
> 
> So this means 9.2 is a SD version of 5.1, and 5.2 is a SD version of 9.1.



Bingo!


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16585680
> 
> 
> What station is this? Is it WBQM-LP? I see an app for it on 3 with Brooklyn as the Community of License. What antenna are you using? Are you above the ground floor?
> 
> 
> Thanks,



You're probably right, but I have no data to back that up. I've attached a copy of the Station ID card.


It's been a source of annoyance to me that of all the digital channels, this is the one I get the best.


I'm currently using an old Yagi antenna on the roof of my 2 story house. It's pointed toward the WTC site. I haven't had a chance to go up on the roof to try reorienting it. I've also done some experiments with indoor rabbit ears but have not been able to get anything more than 0 signal on channel 8. I'm using a Dish Network TR-40 CECB which allows you to monitor the signal on a real (not virtual) channel. I just got a Winegard MS-2002 omnidirectional amplified roof antenna. I tried it out indoors and the results were promising, but I still wasn't able to get anything I'm not getting with the Yagi. I'm planning on having it installed on the roof next week.


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16586690
> 
> 
> Any shows? What is on it?
> *
> 
> 
> WBQM-LP is a low-power television station licensed to Brooklyn, New York as an affiliate of Cornerstone Television. It is owned by Renard Communications Corp., and broadcasts on VHF channel 3.*



It's all religious programming.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16593173
> 
> 
> You're probably right, but I have no data to back that up. I've attached a copy of the Station ID card.



Definitely WBQM-LD.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16593183
> 
> 
> It's all religious programming.



I thought 29.1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 Is the Religious Man on 29.1 and the rest is just audio religious stations.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16593556
> 
> 
> I thought 29.1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 Is the Religious Man on 29.1 and the rest is just audio religious stations.



They are all a waste but 29 is a real big waste and it really peeves me off that I get that station the strongest and it being the furthest away. I can peak it at 96% and it is 15 miles away but you heard me complain about that over and over again since I started posting here. The only thing the channel is useful and I watch sometimes is ATN News which is not religious garbage but actually world news. It ain't that bad. The rest of the time it is that old geezer babbling about the world is going to end in two years. What a whack job.


The real test will be next Friday when I will finally know how high VHF digital reception is. I hope I can still get channel 7 and 11 next week.


----------



## LenL

You missed my point big time and I guess the way I worded it was to blame. The discussion was all about contractual issues with cable stations owned by NBC going OTA.


My point was that OTA channels are all pretty much carried by cable providers, Verizon FIOS, and satellite providers and the same can be said in reverse. Another words 4.1 is carried by cable and satellite. There doesn't seem to be any contractual issues with it also being broadcast OTA. Cable came first and they did not stop NBC from providing programming to satellite or even to FIOS. I believe you can get CNBC and MSNBC on satellite and Verizon FIOS. So if there were NO contractual issues with this programming going there why would there be a contractual issue with CNBC or MSNBC being broadcast OTA?


That was where this thread was going. We were not discussing sending HBO, or Yes network over OTA or that the same 100 plus or so channels you get via cable you can get OTA today.


----------



## LenL

Huh?


Look at the subchannels like 7.2, 7.3, 4.2, 4.3,11.2, 13.2 etc.... They are all on cable and OTA.


I don't see cable in these cases saying to the station owners we are not paying you cause you also do OTA or we are cutting what we give you.


Secondly if MSNBC and CNBC went to FIOS and Satellite like they have, this is the real competitors for cable not OTA. If cable was not mad about this they surely are not going to be upset about CNBC and MSNBC also being sent to a relatively small OTA audiance.


For MSNBC and CNBC it would mean more advertising revenue that they are missing out on and more profit.


I have not heard anything factual yet as to why this is not possible. Some good guesses...but just guesses. I still have hope!


----------



## LenL

A lot of the shows on cable etc. you can watch on your PC....so add this to the list of reasons why it makes little sense not to have some cable shows like CNBC and MSNBC on OTA.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16596355
> 
> 
> A lot of the shows on cable etc. you can watch on your PC....so add this to the list of reasons why it makes little sense not to have some cable shows like CNBC and MSNBC on OTA.



Len,


You just don't seem to understand.


Those are stations that both viewers and signal distributors (ie, cable and satellite) are WILLING to pay for and that are viable vehicles for selling commercials.


Not even a government bureaucrat or politician (well, maybe them) is going to give away for free something that they already get paid for. Not even Immelt is that stupid.


Look, send a suggestion to GE and see if they bother responding. Those are GE's properties you're trying to give away.


----------



## nordloewelabs

regarding this NBC debacle.... if their concern is indeed the "cannibalization" of their paid TV market, they could broadcast a mix bag of CNBC and MSNBC shows on channel 4.2. it's to NBC's best interest to air something that will attract a higher number of viewers. if they can increase their audience without extra costs, it makes sense to do it. remember, they already own the equipment and the frequency.


NBC is wasting resources with NY Non-Stop. and the same goes to the other networks without any sub-channel or with lame ones. however, as someone pointed out, the networks should only use SD on the sub-channels.


i dont know whether this is "contractually" possible or not, but the fact remains, sub-channels are being wasted with lame programming. they should either put something good in them or disable them completely -- which ultimately would result in better picture quality on the main 4.1 channel.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16596495
> 
> 
> regarding this NBC debacle.... if their concern is indeed the "cannibalization" of their paid TV market, they could broadcast a mix bag of CNBC and MSNBC shows on channel 4.2. it's to NBC's best interest to air something that will attract a higher number of viewers. if they can increase their audience without extra costs, it makes sense to do it. remember, they already own the equipment and the frequency.
> 
> 
> NBC is wasting resources with NY Non-Stop. and the same goes to the other networks without any sub-channel or with lame ones. however, as someone pointed out, the networks should only use SD on the sub-channels.
> 
> 
> i dont know whether this is "contractually" possible or not, but the fact remains, sub-channels are being wasted with lame programming. they should either put something good in them or disable them completely -- which ultimately would result in better picture quality on the main 4.1 channel.



I been saying a OLD movie Station with Advertising for a SUB stations.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16594337
> 
> 
> They are all a waste but 29 is a real big waste and it really peeves me off that I get that station the strongest and it being the furthest away. I can peak it at 96% and it is 15 miles away but you heard me complain about that over and over again since I started posting here. The only thing the channel is useful and I watch sometimes is ATN News which is not religious garbage but actually world news. It ain't that bad. The rest of the time it is that old geezer babbling about the world is going to end in two years. What a whack job.
> 
> 
> The real test will be next Friday when I will finally know how high VHF digital reception is. I hope I can still get channel 7 and 11 next week.



So is channel 3 and 29 the same or different religious stations?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16596829
> 
> 
> So is channel 3 and 29 the same or different religious stations?



3-1 is Cornerstone (based out of WPCB in Pittsburgh)

29-1 is an independent religious station.

42-0 is Daystar (based out of KDTN in Dallas)

54-1 is TBN (based out of KTBN in Los Angeles I think)


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/16571505
> 
> 
> Here is your channel assignments and broadcast power
> 
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_...ew_York_NY.pdf



Thank you for posting the above www gov reference, I am aware that the kw are the real power, and I thought they were running their broadcasts in

1000s of kw.

Really I was surprised how little power wnet13 uses, now I lost sympathy for them, it is no surprise that many people can not get that ch.13, thanks again.


----------



## LenL

Yes I think I will contact NBC about it.


They would not be giving anything away for free as they will get money from more advertisers. The advertisers pay....the viewers don't.


Secondly you assume that they get a lot of money from cable, satellite, and fios. That may be, not sure they get all that much, but sending it OTA does nothing to that income stream. It will actually bring them more money as they increase the audience for the shows.


Thirdly you assume that everyone who has cable etc is watching those shows. The fact is there are a large number of cable, satellite and FIOS customers who are complaining they are paying for programming they don't watch and want a new pay as you view model so they only pay for what they watch. When that happens and it will, that is going to turn the economics of CNBC and MSNBC and a lot of cable shows with small audiences on their heels. Their only revenue may go back to being advertisers or they go belly up....which is what should happen to a lot of what is on cable.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16597369
> 
> 
> Secondly you assume that they get a lot of money from cable, satellite, and fios. That may be, not sure they get all that much, but sending it OTA does nothing to that income stream.



Until the cable company says "we're not paying you as much for it since if people want it, they can get it for free." It's not a selling point for cable/satellite if it's available OTA, and thus is less valuable to them.


Then the tiny bit of extra OTA audience doesn't look so significant, especially in a depressed advertising market. Money from cable/satellite providers doesn't change too much unless a significant number of people drop subscription service, which I don't think has happened yet.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

I found this related discussion about MSNBC going OTA. The fellow has some numbers on the economics and a poll which I voted on. Some good stuff here an vote in the poll for whatever it's worth! I hope I posted the link ok....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5...C-over-the-air


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16574695
> 
> 
> 25.1 is now steady.
> 
> 
> 36.1 still nothing!



The other day I have punched in 36, it went to 47-1, and surprise surprise the picture came out, made Add on Scan to memory.

And another big surprise 47-1 Telemundo has most of the 1hour Novellas

bilingual meaning it has English subtitles. I've sampled some daytime, evening

and night time novellas all with English subtitles.

It made me also to realize that all the broadcasters have no idea about the inner workings of the conv. boxes in regard to CC, they do'nt know the

difference between ACC and DCC whatever it means, time up must go


----------



## SnellKrell

"Really I was surprised how little power wnet13 uses, now I lost sympathy for them, it is no surprise that many people can not get that ch.13, thanks again."


Channel 13 deserves better and an understanding that they were assigned Channel 61 as the station's digital frequency before the transition. I'm sure they would have preferred a stronger signal - get more viewers - get more donations!


With federal, state and corporate funding scraping bottom, the station has had to fire staff members. 13 and 21 are in financial trouble.


I only hope that 13 will be granted more power for its new 13-digital signal and have the money to make it happen.


Those are the facts - not 13's choice at all!


----------



## AloEuro

Telemundo 47-1 Spanish broadcast has most of the novellas also in English, before

the show they post their CC CC1 Espanol

CC3 English

But I think that their posting like that may to be good perhaps for cable/satelites, but

not for DTv converter boxes. Here you use Services.

The broadcast language is always Service1, thus 47-1 CC-S1 Espanol ,the Service1

make all 4 CC -CC1,2,3,4, and all 4 Text -Text1,2,3,4, in service language that is in

spanish. On 47-1Telemundo the Service2 is English.

The english broadcasters Service1 is in english thus the Service2 would be whatever language they will advertise on their show. CC1English CC3Espanol.

When you watch 47-1 go to menu- to DCC- highlight Service2-must OK-exit, play with it. Sometime the English CC does not come, apparently the men in estudio respon-

sible for it did not punch in the keys; enjoy

I wish the rest of the spanish TV like cv34, 41, 68 made their programmas also with

english subtitles.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16597629
> 
> 
> "Really I was surprised how little power wnet13 uses, now I lost sympathy for them, it is no surprise that many people can not get that ch.13, thanks again."
> 
> 
> Channel 13 deserves better and an understanding that they were assigned Channel 61 as the station's digital frequency before the transition. I'm sure they would have preferred a stronger signal - get more viewers - get more donations!
> 
> 
> With federal, state and corporate funding scraping bottom, the station has had to fire staff members. 13 and 21 are in financial trouble.
> 
> 
> I only hope that 13 will be granted more power for its new 13-digital signal and have the money to make it happen.
> 
> 
> Those are the facts - not 13's choice at all!



Why can't WNYE and WNET be merged into one strong entity? Such merger will save a lot of operational ,money, get city contribution and have stronger programming on digital 13.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNYE is owned by the city of New York, it was originally the television station of what was once the Board of Education.


WNET already has a sister station it doesn't need another one especially now. Before this financial crunch it took over WLIW.


Just the cost of being forced to go digital is huge, no less going HD.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16597984
> 
> 
> Why can't WNYE and WNET be merged into one strong entity? Such merger will save a lot of operational ,money, get city contribution and have stronger programming on digital 13.



The FCC doesn't allow one company to own three stations in a market unless those stations are satellites. (Don't cite KWHY, that's a waiver from a time when there was a triopoly rule proposed that fell through.)


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

I know all these but both station are struggling financially and contributions, especially now, are not enough. So what choices do they have?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16597629
> 
> 
> I only hope that 13 will be granted more power for its new 13-digital signal and have the money to make it happen.



the PBSs have always been my favourite channels. i hope i can get 13's signal next Friday. if i cant, i'll have to wait till the other PBS (WNJB, i think) comes to the island in October.


btw, there are a lot of PBS shows available for free streaming on their site ( www.pbs.org/video ). if you cant receive decent DTV signal after the transition, get the second best: PBS online.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16598140
> 
> 
> the PBSs have always been my favourite channels. i hope i can get 13's signal next Friday. if i cant, i'll have to wait till the other PBS (WNJB, i think) comes to the island in October.
> 
> 
> btw, there are a lot of PBS shows available for free streaming on their site ( www.pbs.org/video ). if you cant receive decent DTV signal after the transition, get the second best: PBS online.



And DONATE!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro* /forum/post/16598619
> 
> 
> And DONATE!



No money after new boxes and antenna's


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16597477
> 
> 
> I found this related discussion about MSNBC going OTA. The fellow has some numbers on the economics and a poll which I voted on. Some good stuff here an vote in the poll for whatever it's worth! I hope I posted the link ok....
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/5...C-over-the-air



I guess it's probably only the Daily Kook audience that would want MSNBC to be free OTA anyway..... They seem to have the same clientele...


I took MSNBC and their twits off my satellite' channel menu years ago and haven't missed them yet.


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 is my most wanted station that I would like to get. I hope I can get it come Friday without losing Channels 7 and 11. Although NJN Channel 50 is now in 1080i and does show HD programs the signal lately has not been that reliable. In the afternoon it was stronger but in the evening it was weaker and it can break up too much.


I have a question about NJN Channel 8. If they are staying in NJ until October would it still interfere when Channel 7 moves to RF 7. I hope they don't reduce the power on RF Channel 7.


----------



## LenL

Yup....I agree with you. If you don't like MSNBC don't watch it. Same for any other channels you don't like. We all don't have the same viewing tastes. Not sure why you have to be critical of those who like MSNBC but I can guess.


There are many of us who would prefer to watch CNBC and MSNBC over what is on the NBC sub Channels now.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16601347
> 
> 
> Yup....I agree with you. If you don't like MSNBC don't watch it. Same for any other channels you don't like. We all don't have the same viewing tastes. Not sure why you have to be critical of those who like MSNBC but I can guess.
> 
> 
> There are many of us who would prefer to watch CNBC and MSNBC over what is on the NBC sub Channels now.



I agree a NEWS channel is missing OTA. So is a 24/7 old movie channel.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16601163
> 
> 
> Channel 13 is my most wanted station that I would like to get. I hope I can get it come Friday without losing Channels 7 and 11. Although NJN Channel 50 is now in 1080i and does show HD programs the signal lately has not been that reliable. In the afternoon it was stronger but in the evening it was weaker and it can break up too much.
> 
> 
> I have a question about NJN Channel 8. If they are staying in NJ until October would it still interfere when Channel 7 moves to RF 7. I hope they don't reduce the power on RF Channel 7.



There will be two kinds of adjacent channel interference from channel 8 into 7 and from 7 into 8. First, where the signals overlap, if channel 8's signal is stronger by at least 26dB, channel 7 will be victimized. Second, there's a spillover at the ch 8 transmitter into the two adjacent channels. This spillover is supposed to be controlled by a filter specified by the FCC but the actual performance is hard to verify. Anyway, this spillover from channel 8 into 7 is actually another form of cochannel interference.

Bear in mind that interference does not necessarily means that you cannot decode. It always means that the signal to noise margin is lowered thus making reception less reliable.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16597369
> 
> 
> Yes I think I will contact NBC about it.
> 
> 
> They would not be giving anything away for free as they will get money from more advertisers. The advertisers pay....the viewers don't.
> 
> 
> Secondly you assume that they get a lot of money from cable, satellite, and fios. That may be, not sure they get all that much, but sending it OTA does nothing to that income stream. It will actually bring them more money as they increase the audience for the shows.
> 
> 
> Thirdly you assume that everyone who has cable etc is watching those shows. The fact is there are a large number of cable, satellite and FIOS customers who are complaining they are paying for programming they don't watch and want a new pay as you view model so they only pay for what they watch. When that happens and it will, that is going to turn the economics of CNBC and MSNBC and a lot of cable shows with small audiences on their heels. Their only revenue may go back to being advertisers or they go belly up....which is what should happen to a lot of what is on cable.



I agree. I got rid of the cable because I did not like paying for channels I did not want. I told them to lower my monthly charge & remove some of the channels. they said they were not going to do it. I told them i could make them do it. I did make them take the channels off & lower the bill. the bill went down along wiht the channels, down to 0. No channels & no money. But my antenna is still great. ha ha


I am sure it comes down to seeing where the most money is. What the tv cable will pay or will the advertisers pay the higher price.


----------



## kousikb

@LenL: Its a harsh reality that advertisement based models are not going to work these days with so many avenues of entertainment. It may have worked before when there were few choices of entertainment and few good shows with people sticking around these shows. Now a days people have so many options, internet, streaming media, viral videos that its simply difficult to convince business to spend more money on advertisement which only few people will watch. Ask yourself: when you do google search it embeds so many advertisement around your search result.. how many times do you care to look at those advertisements or even click through those links. Subscription based services provides steady stream of revenues and provides jobs to many people. Have you heard the latest news about Hulu? Hulu is also thinking of going to subscription model because obviously they can't sustain with a ad supported model. There is a cost to these programming content and somebody has to pay for it. The big-4 Network TV are still surviving because, people still watch them and follow them. But the fact is, a major part of their(big-4) revenue comes of cable service provider and satellite service provider. I have heard that 60% of their revenue comes from them. The cable service providers have such a upper hand that, hulu (joint venture between FOX and NBC) had to block Boxee (a media aggregator application for Mac/Linux and soon windowws) to access its content. The reason was that Boxee was percieved as a threat to the cable's subscription based model and cable service provider pressured FOX and NBC to block Boxee to aceess Hulu. Until and unless people in droves dump their cable and satellite and become exclusively OTA, ad supported OTA television content are not going to see any major change. And all these ramblings are coming from me with no cable/satellite service at my home. I am quite satisfied with OTA and its programming content. In fact I have so many shows scheduled and recorded in my HTPC (72 hrs of content of NJN PBS and other shows from the big network TVs), but still doesn't find any time to watch all these shows. I end up watching whatever is coming live. If I don't find anything worth watching, then only I watch those pre-recorded shows. I am pretty excited now that I will be able to get WNET 13 after June 12. I think their content is better than NJN PBS and have more HD shows compared to NJN. I think what might happen in the following years is that we might see a channel like TVLAND airing old shows or old movies. That'd be a real treat. Its already happening in few OTA market. It might happen in NYC market too.


----------



## LenL

All good points I can't argue with...but I can dream can't I. My wish is OTA grows as more people find it has HD and the networks rethink the limited programming and before I pass on, we get some more great programming......


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16602484
> 
> 
> @LenL: Its a harsh reality that advertisement based models are not going to work these days with so many avenues of entertainment. It may have worked before when there were few choices of entertainment and few good shows with people sticking around these shows. Now a days people have so many options, internet, streaming media, viral videos that its simply difficult to convince business to spend more money on advertisement which only few people will watch. Ask yourself: when you do google search it embeds so many advertisement around your search result.. how many times do you care to look at those advertisements or even click through those links. Subscription based services provides steady stream of revenues and provides jobs to many people. Have you heard the latest news about Hulu? Hulu is also thinking of going to subscription model because obviously they can't sustain with a ad supported model. There is a cost to these programming content and somebody has to pay for it. The big-4 Network TV are still surviving because, people still watch them and follow them. But the fact is, a major part of their(big-4) revenue comes of cable service provider and satellite service provider. I have heard that 60% of their revenue comes from them. The cable service providers have such a upper hand that, hulu (joint venture between FOX and NBC) had to block Boxee (a media aggregator application for Mac/Linux and soon windowws) to access its content. The reason was that Boxee was percieved as a threat to the cable's subscription based model and cable service provider pressured FOX and NBC to block Boxee to aceess Hulu. Until and unless people in droves dump their cable and satellite and become exclusively OTA, ad supported OTA television content are not going to see any major change. And all these ramblings are coming from me with no cable/satellite service at my home. I am quite satisfied with OTA and its programming content. In fact I have so many shows scheduled and recorded in my HTPC (72 hrs of content of NJN PBS and other shows from the big network TVs), but still doesn't find any time to watch all these shows. I end up watching whatever is coming live. If I don't find anything worth watching, then only I watch those pre-recorded shows. I am pretty excited now that I will be able to get WNET 13 after June 12. I think their content is better than NJN PBS and have more HD shows compared to NJN. I think what might happen in the following years is that we might see a channel like TVLAND airing old shows or old movies. That'd be a real treat. Its already happening in few OTA market. It might happen in NYC market too.



Over 35 million people USE OTA. Not a very small market. BUT a untapped market for a 24/7 movie or news station


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16602484
> 
> 
> @LenL: I think what might happen in the following years is that we might see a channel like TVLAND airing old shows or old movies. That'd be a real treat. Its already happening in few OTA market. It might happen in NYC market too.




That is going to happen and soon. The word is that WSAH channel 42 in Bridgeport is switching to a classic TV format via Retro TV. Channel 42 is available on most area cable systems including DirecTV and has a application to move their transmitter to Empire in NYC. If approved by the commission their signal will be available OTA to the general NY market viewer.



http://www.stationindex.com/tv/callsign/WSAH 

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....od/app_list.pl 

http://www.myretrotv.com/


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16602946
> 
> 
> If approved by the commission their signal will be available OTA to the general NY market viewer.



Unless you live in New Jersey.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16602946
> 
> 
> That is going to happen and soon. The word is that WSAH channel 42 in Bridgeport is switching to a classic TV format via Retro TV. Channel 42



according to this page , RetroTV is broadcast over-the-air in Albany as a sub-channel of ABC. very interesting. i wouldnt mind if WABC 7 dropped the Weather channel like WNBC 4 did.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Over 35 million people USE OTA. Not a very small market. BUT a untapped market for a 24/7 movie or news station



"untapped" is really the best way to describe it! i'm sure more channels will come up as bandwidth is available and waiting to be used.


----------



## nordloewelabs

*Retro TV Finds A Home In New York*
http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/06/04/daily.3/ 


and btw, they are already available on cable. so a cable channel can go over-the-air.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16602962
> 
> 
> Unless you live in New Jersey.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That depends. I realize that they will be somewhat directional towards Bridgeport, but using real world conditions if we were to compare their coverage to that of WNYZ, which is highly directional, but puts in a terrific signal from it's transmiter site in Queens, the NYC market will be well serviced.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1113032.html 



If WSAH gets their wish this will be their coverage map. If the FCC approves this, the NY market which includes suburban NJ will be well served.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1269857.html


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16603226
> 
> 
> That depends. I realize that they will be somewhat directional towards Bridgeport, but using real world conditions if we were to compare their coverage to that of WNYZ, which is highly directional, but puts in a terrific signal from it's transmiter site in Queens, the NYC market will be well serviced.



Um... if you look at the proposed pattern for WSAH, it *is* highly directional. Has to protect WTXF-DT in Philly.



> Quote:
> If WSAH gets their wish this will be their coverage map. If it came to this the NY market which includes suburban NJ will be well served.



And those maps are hopelessly flawed.


Much of New Jersey would get 1.21 kW. That is, if you don't get WNET-DT now, your chances of receiving WSAH-DT are VERY small, as it will be 10 dB weaker than that.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

If Hulu was to charge content then screw them. I will never visit them again. I pay $41 dollars a month and I got to pay more. I will just watch the shows I missed on the network sites.


Another topic. How does high VHF carry with noise. Yesterday I had it tuned to analog and for about 10 minutes I was getting static noise on the picture. It was on the UHF channels up to channel 41 analog. Digital channel 25 which RF channel is channel 24 was breaking up. Also channel 11 RF channel 33 was breaking up. But channel 47 RF channel 36 was not breaking up because I get is so strong. Channel 66 RF 29 was not breaking up but channel 4 RF channel 28 was breaking up a bit. I am worried that high VHF might be worse when it comes to impulse noise. I don't know where the noise came from but it went away after 10 minutes and those channels were fine analog and digital.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16603248
> 
> 
> Um... if you look at the proposed pattern for WSAH, it *is* highly directional. Has to protect WTXF-DT in Philly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And those maps are hopelessly flawed.
> 
> 
> Much of New Jersey would get 1.21 kW. That is, if you don't get WNET-DT now, your chances of receiving WSAH-DT are VERY small, as it will be 10 dB weaker than that.
> 
> 
> - Trip



WSAH main shows is a HOME shopping station. Do you think that will be a Sub station of 43.1? I mean will we get more then one channel out of the deal


Home shopping and Retro TV?


To bad no movies, just seems like old shows. Better then Religious stuff


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16603397
> 
> 
> WSAH main shows is a HOME shopping station. Do you think that will be a Sub station of 43.1? I mean will we get more then one channel out of the deal
> 
> 
> Home shopping and Retro TV?
> 
> 
> To bad no movies, just seems like old shows. Better then Religious stuff



It's been announced that RTN will be on 43-1.


I'm sure This TV will eventually come to New York. That will be your old movie channel you are anxiously seeking.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16603409
> 
> 
> It's been announced that RTN will be on 43-1.
> 
> 
> I'm sure This TV will eventually come to New York. That will be your old movie channel you are anxiously seeking.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks trip but two questions my friend.


1) Will there be a Sub channel to 43.1 or just the one channel?


2) The links for retro TV does not show movies I am only seeing old TV shows? Am I wrong? Got link to the movies?


----------



## nstavr

Here's a link to THIS TV's site. They show old movies on numerous sub channels throughout the country hxxp://this.tv/


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nstavr* /forum/post/16603464
> 
> 
> Here's a link to THIS TV's site. They show old movies on numerous sub channels throughout the country hxxp://this.tv/



I know about this.tv We are talking about this new Retro TV station moving to EBS from CT (tower is moving)


Rip said it was also old movie station and I do not see that


----------



## nordloewelabs

ION shows some old movies. last week they aired "Assassins" and "Batman". they will show "Just Cause" this week. not enough movies, i know.... maybe TV 10/55 will go OTA too some day.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

WLNY (TV 10/55) is OTA. Their signal just doesn't cover the city that well.


I don't know why but WMBC went from a good signal on Friday night to none at all now.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16603443
> 
> 
> Thanks trip but two questions my friend.
> 
> 
> 1) Will there be a Sub channel to 43.1 or just the one channel?



There already is a subchannel. I think it's ethnic programming, but I'm not sure.



> Quote:
> 2) The links for retro TV does not show movies I am only seeing old TV shows? Am I wrong? Got link to the movies?



RTN does mostly old TV shows. I was referring to another network that does air movies. http://www.this.tv/ I imagine it'll be available in New York some time in the near future, though I don't know anything concrete.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16603495
> 
> 
> Rip said it was also old movie station and I do not see that



i just browsed their entire week programming on TitanTV and this is the only movie time i found:


Sat 5pm (To be Announced).


so apparently the answer is "no". RetroTV is comprised almost completely of old TV shows with a movie only once a week.


----------



## reddice

I get WSAH Channel 42 on Dish and all it is is all paid programming infomercial junk. If it becomes classic TV because anything is better than infomercials.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16603773
> 
> 
> I get WSAH Channel 42 on Dish and all it is is all paid programming infomercial junk. If it becomes classic TV because anything is better than infomercials.



Why don't you need a Ronco Peeler?


I would have to agree.


I hope This tv comes to NYC soon. Wonder who would carry it?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16603784
> 
> 
> Why don't you need a Ronco Peeler?
> 
> 
> I would have to agree.
> 
> 
> I hope This tv comes to NYC soon. Wonder who would carry it?



Tribune (owner of WPIX) carries it in a few places, but does not have more than one additional subchannel on any of its stations. If they were to pick it up, they'd drop LATV to do it. That is to say--if the ratings are good on LATV, don't expect This to show up there.


As for who would pick it up, that's a good question. I really do not know.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16603794
> 
> 
> Tribune (owner of WPIX) carries it in a few places, but does not have more than one additional subchannel on any of its stations. If they were to pick it up, they'd drop LATV to do it. That is to say--if the ratings are good on LATV, don't expect This to show up there.
> 
> 
> As for who would pick it up, that's a good question. I really do not know.
> 
> 
> - Trip



How about a avsforum STATION and we get to vote what goes on it? LOL


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16603794
> 
> 
> As for who would pick it up, that's a good question. I really do not know.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well if WNYW and WWOR decide to stop simulcasting each other on their subchannels, maybe one of them will pick it up.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16603847
> 
> 
> Well if WNYW and WWOR decide to stop simulcasting each other on their subchannels, maybe one of them will pick it up.



No other Fox-owned stations have it. I wouldn't count on it.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16603888
> 
> 
> No other Fox-owned stations have it. I wouldn't count on it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I read that this channel 43.1 is Starting with RTV July 1st. So I wonder if the Transmitter will be in place on the ESB by then?


And that NJ pbs is also moving to ESB by Oct. Funny how OTA in NY is gaining stations. I think The Majors need to put some good content on their subs. They are really missing the boat here.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16603973
> 
> 
> I read that this channel 43.1 is Starting with RTV July 1st. So I wonder if the Transmitter will be in place on the ESB by then?



Nope. The FCC has not acted on the application yet because of interference concerns with regard to WTXF-DT in Philly.



> Quote:
> And that NJ pbs is also moving to ESB by Oct. Funny how OTA in NY is gaining stations. I think The Majors need to put some good content on their subs. They are really missing the boat here.



Not to ESB, but to Times Square.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16603888
> 
> 
> No other Fox-owned stations have it. I wouldn't count on it.



btw, since you seem to know, could you tell us which stations are CBS and FOX broadcasting in sub-channels in other parts of the country. it doesnt have to be a complete list, of course. just give us an idea.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16604003
> 
> 
> Nope. The FCC has not acted on the application yet because of interference concerns with regard to WTXF-DT in Philly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to ESB, but to Times Square.
> 
> 
> - Trip



ESB or Times Square makes no difference for my aunt's reception. At 7 miles away it is excellent.


BTW she just told me as of 2 days ago TELEMUNDO 47.1 Has increased from pixelated picture and a signal strength to over 90. So they must of moved the transmitter to NYC early. It was planed by June 12th.


My aunt likes this station and is happy it is now watchable.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i just checked the "Main/Sub-channel" situation in other areas using RabbitEars's market information. now i'm sure we'll get more and better channels in the future. we might never get MSNBC over-the-air, but we'll likely get something else (such as ThisTV) since there's a lot of room to grow.


for example: 1) FOX and MY9 are currently backing up each other on sub-channels 5.2 and 9.2. if they stop that, there's room for 2 new stations. 2) CBS is not using any sub-channel.

_WHDH BOSTON airs NBC on main and ThisTV on sub.

WPHL PHILADELPHIA airs MyN on main and ThisTV on sub.

KRON SAN FRANCISCO airs MyN at 720p on main and MyN 480i on sub.

WXYZ DETROIT airs ABC on main and RetroTV on sub.

WDIV DETROIT airs NBC on main and ThisTV on sub.

WUSA WASHINGTON DC airs CBS on main and Weather on sub.

WDCW WASHINGTON DC airs CW on main and ThisTV on sub.

KIRO SEATTLE airs CBS on main and RetroTV on sub.

KTCI ST. PAUL MN airs PBS on main and Weather on sub.


_


----------



## SemiChemE

Adding Albany stations to the List:

_

WRGB 39 - 6.1(CBS), 6.2 (ThisTV)

WTEN 26 - 10.1(ABC), 10.2 (Weather), 10.3 (RealTV)

WMHT 34 - 17.1(PBS), 17.2 (ThinkBright), 17.3 (World)

WXXA 7 - 23.1(FOX), 23.2(Untamed Sports TV)

WCWN 43 - 45.1(CW), 45.2(Universal Sports)

WNYT 12 - 13.1(NBC), 13.2(Weather), 13.3(Weather)
_


Sure, this is out of the NYC Market, but with a good antenna, those north of Mt. Beacon or along the Hudson might be able to pick them up.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16606255
> 
> 
> i just checked the "Main/Sub-channel" situation in other areas using RabbitEars's market information. now i'm sure we'll get more and better channels in the future. we might never get MSNBC over-the-air, but we'll likely get something else (such as ThisTV) since there's a lot of room to grow.
> 
> 
> for example: 1) FOX and MY9 are currently backing up each other on sub-channels 5.2 and 9.2. if they stop that, there's room for 2 new stations. 2) CBS is not using any sub-channel.
> 
> _WHDH BOSTON airs NBC on main and ThisTV on sub.
> 
> WPHL PHILADELPHIA airs MyN on main and ThisTV on sub.
> 
> KRON SAN FRANCISCO airs MyN at 720p on main and MyN 480i on sub.
> 
> WXYZ DETROIT airs ABC on main and RetroTV on sub.
> 
> WDIV DETROIT airs NBC on main and ThisTV on sub.
> 
> WUSA WASHINGTON DC airs CBS on main and Weather on sub.
> 
> WDCW WASHINGTON DC airs CW on main and ThisTV on sub.
> 
> KIRO SEATTLE airs CBS on main and RetroTV on sub.
> 
> KTCI ST. PAUL MN airs PBS on main and Weather on sub.
> 
> 
> _



I hear CBS will NEVER have subs due to Quality issues for the main channel. I hope they change and put 1 sub in. In SD


----------



## kousikb

Hopefully, network executives are watching this thread for people's wishlist. Even I would like to have thisTV. Also, fan of retro shows can already enjoy few popular shows in 11.1 late night and there are few shows in ION I think. Obviously you need a HTPC/DVR or TR-40/Zinwell CECB coupled with VCR/DVD-recorder to record these shows late at night if you don't plan to watch them late at night. WGN (owned by the same management as PIX11 - Tribune I think) have lot of retro shows/movies in their library and they can add all these shows any time they wish and if they find a market for these shows. Plus its cheaper to broadcast these retro shows because the cost to run these shows should be absolute minimum. Also now a days, My9 and ION have started to broadcast lot of movies in HD uring primetime.


The only network who have commited to add a new sub is I think NYC TV (25.x). In all their DTV advert, they mentioned that they will convert 25.1 to HD and add new channels to their lineup. Not sure whether they will be able to meet their ambitious plan or not.


----------



## speedlaw

Interestingly, today around 1 or so, channels 13 11 and 9 dropped for about four-five minutes. OTA 2, 4, 5 and 7 were normal.


The signals came back on channel 9, 11 then 13, with 9 showing low power and a double image before power came back up.


No mention "this is a test" or such.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16602946
> 
> 
> That is going to happen and soon. The word is that WSAH channel 42 in Bridgeport is switching to a classic TV format via Retro TV. Channel 42 is available on most area cable systems including DirecTV and has a application to move their transmitter to Empire in NYC. If approved by the commission their signal will be available OTA to the general NY market viewer.




I can tell you for fact that WSAH is not on TWC at least in city limits.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16606084
> 
> 
> ESB or Times Square makes no difference for my aunt's reception. At 7 miles away it is excellent.
> 
> 
> BTW she just told me as of 2 days ago TELEMUNDO 47.1 Has increased from pixelated picture and a signal strength to over 90. So they must of moved the transmitter to NYC early. It was planed by June 12th.
> 
> 
> My aunt likes this station and is happy it is now watchable.



Yeah, I noticed that too. I used to have trouble getting that station, then a couple of nights ago I did a re-scan and noticed it is way up there in signal strength.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16605389
> 
> 
> btw, since you seem to know, could you tell us which stations are CBS and FOX broadcasting in sub-channels in other parts of the country. it doesnt have to be a complete list, of course. just give us an idea.



As lexus2108 already said, CBS-owned stations like WCBS have no subchannels to preserve quality for HD.


Fox-owned stations have nothing but weather in the few places they have subchannels.


As for subchannels, I see the big ones as:


Universal Sports

RTN

This TV

LATV

MHz WorldView (PBS stations only; I'm hoping it ends up on WNYE-DT, it would fit well there)


Plus the PBS subchannels (Create, World, and V-Me) which are already spoken for.


Untamed Sports seems like a waste, and their schedule looks to be heavy on infomercials. A lot of the rest have very limited coverage.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16606084
> 
> 
> BTW she just told me as of 2 days ago TELEMUNDO 47.1 Has increased from pixelated picture and a signal strength to over 90. So they must of moved the transmitter to NYC early. It was planed by June 12th.



I don't think they moved it yet. They asked the FCC to allow them to put up another transmitter at 150 kW directional east toward Long Island.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16609333
> 
> 
> As lexus2108 already said, CBS-owned stations like WCBS have no subchannels to preserve quality for HD.
> 
> 
> Fox-owned stations have nothing but weather in the few places they have subchannels.
> 
> 
> As for subchannels, I see the big ones as:
> 
> 
> Universal Sports
> 
> RTN
> 
> This TV
> 
> LATV
> 
> MHz WorldView (PBS stations only; I'm hoping it ends up on WNYE-DT, it would fit well there)
> 
> 
> Plus the PBS subchannels (Create, World, and V-Me) which are already spoken for.
> 
> 
> Untamed Sports seems like a waste, and their schedule looks to be heavy on infomercials. A lot of the rest have very limited coverage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they moved it yet. They asked the FCC to allow them to put up another transmitter at 150 kW directional east toward Long Island.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well Queens is east of NYC so that must be it


----------



## rgrossman

Queens may be east of Manhattan, but it is _in_ NYC.


----------



## -Sandro-

How's the situation there in NYC with ABC and Live Well HD bitrates?


----------



## SnellKrell

Most things on 7.1 now look like pictures from Barbara Walters' close-up camera!


Quite honestly, expected worse - but what a waste!!!!!!


----------



## speedlaw

We quickly approach shutdown in NYC.










Is anyone aware of the exact times when the NY stations, 2, 4, 5, 7, 11 and 13 are actually going to cut to digital ?


Are any stations planning a "sign-off" or is it going to be a flash cut ?


Any nitelight service here in NYC ?


As a ham operator, I look forward to a "birdie-free" six meter band.


And yes, the prior poster is correct. WABC looks like crap with the LiveBlurry signal on 7.2. I used to see no real difference between the HD signals on the evening news, but now 7.1 looks not so good. I even compared some "Grey's Anatomy" recorded on DVR prior to and after the change.


Yuk.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/16615421
> 
> 
> We quickly approach shutdown in NYC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone aware of the exact times when the NY stations, 2, 4, 5, 7, 11 and 13 are actually going to cut to digital ?
> 
> 
> Are any stations planning a "sign-off" or is it going to be a flash cut ?
> 
> 
> Any nitelight service here in NYC ?
> 
> 
> As a ham operator, I look forward to a "birdie-free" six meter band.
> 
> 
> And yes, the prior poster is correct. WABC looks like crap with the LiveBlurry signal on 7.2. I used to see no real difference between the HD signals on the evening news, but now 7.1 looks not so good. I even compared some "Grey's Anatomy" recorded on DVR prior to and after the change.
> 
> 
> Yuk.



12:30 pm


SIgn off? Yeah....you poor schlubs who didnt listen to this incessant commercials? "buh bye"



What is nitelight service?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/16615421
> 
> 
> We quickly approach shutdown in NYC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is anyone aware of the exact times when the NY stations, 2, 4, 5, 7, 11 and 13 are actually going to cut to digital ?
> 
> 
> Are any stations planning a "sign-off" or is it going to be a flash cut ?
> 
> 
> Any nitelight service here in NYC ?
> 
> 
> As a ham operator, I look forward to a "birdie-free" six meter band.
> 
> 
> And yes, the prior poster is correct. WABC looks like crap with the LiveBlurry signal on 7.2. I used to see no real difference between the HD signals on the evening news, but now 7.1 looks not so good. I even compared some "Grey's Anatomy" recorded on DVR prior to and after the change.
> 
> 
> Yuk.



I wonder about this too.. would they have a message play or just a flash cut?


73,

KB1QXO


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/16590727
> 
> 
> 9 and 5 "back up" each other with SD versions on their .2 subchannels.
> 
> 
> So this means 9.2 is a SD version of 5.1, and 5.2 is a SD version of 9.1.




correct.. and when I watch king of queens at 6pm I have to switch to the 5-2 feed because the 9.1 is so broken up the signal is less then 30% at points..


----------



## SnellKrell

All anyone has to do is to go the FCC site and check Correspondence.


Nevertheless, I've done it and here's what I've found.


The Commission does not demand a specific time to be given, there are dayparts that a station must choose - and here's how it affects the major stations in the New York DMA:


Afternoon = 12:01 p.m. - 6:00 p.m.


Evening = 6:01 p.m. - 11:59 p.m.



Afternoon - 2, 4, 7 and 13 - Note: 7 has announced in PSAs - 12:30 P.M for its change.


Evening - 5, 9 and 11


What doesn't make sense to me is that 2 (WCBS-DT) has chosen to vacate Channel 56 during the Afternoon. No interruption of "Letterman."


2 will be taking over 11's Channel 33, but WPIX-DT has chosen to leave Channel 33 during the Evening option to move to digital 11.


2 and 11 must be a coordinated move.


Trip or Falcon, what am I missing?


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

For some of our other local market stations:


Early AM - 31 (Midnight - 6AM)


Morning - 50, 58 (6AM - Noon)


Afternoon - 21


Evening - 25, 41, 47, 68


I'm really waiting for 47 and 21 to go digital thus they can boost their power and I can get both signals.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

Looks like Univision took the idea of local Fox O&Os and applied it to WFUT. It's new subchannel is WXTV.


Also I got a question, why does NY Nonstop have a SD 16:9 shot fit into a 4:3? When I look at this on my HDTV, it annoys the heck me. I don's see the point of doing SD 16:9 unless they make it true 16:9.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16617675
> 
> 
> Looks like Univision took the idea of local Fox O&Os and applied it to WFUT. It's new subchannel is WXTV.



Univision has been doing this for a LONG time in other markets, it's just new to New York.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16617675
> 
> 
> Looks like Univision took the idea of local Fox O&Os and applied it to WFUT. It's new subchannel is WXTV.



what's the advantage of that strategy?

and btw, what does "O&O" stand for?


----------



## SnellKrell

"...what does "O&O" stand for?"


A station that is Owned and Operated by a network.


For example, WCBS, NY is an O&O station of CBS Broadcasting, Inc.


----------



## SnellKrell

Appears the Combiner stations are, as of earlier this morning, using the backup antenna panels below the 86th floor. WABC may not have switched over to 4TS as of yet.


Something has happened with Channel 36 (47.1). While others are reporting that their reception of this channel is better than ever, my signal is too intermittent and too low to lock on.


----------



## SnellKrell

Combiner is back feeding the main antenna!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16617675
> 
> 
> Looks like Univision took the idea of local Fox O&Os and applied it to WFUT. It's new subchannel is WXTV.



WXTV is channel 41 right?


----------



## SnellKrell

"WXTV is channel 41 right?"


Yes, but transmits digital using Channel 40 which remaps as 41 on your set.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16619712
> 
> 
> "WXTV is channel 41 right?"
> 
> 
> Yes, but transmits digital using Channel 40 which remaps as 41 on your set.



ok so WFUT is subing WXTV


Just like 5.1 subs 9.1?


Why would they sub another channel? I do not understand the reasoning.


----------



## SnellKrell

Same ownership - Univision, as with Fox owning both 5 and 9.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16619865
> 
> 
> Same ownership - Univision, as with Fox owning both 5 and 9.



So even though it is a sub. WFUT is subing WXTV


It is not a NEW channel. Just a copy.


What a shame


----------



## Phil Hightech

Come on FOX, give us Fox News on a sub!!!


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Hightech* /forum/post/16620621
> 
> 
> Come on FOX, give us Fox News on a sub!!!



this idea has crossed my mind....but only for a tiny nanosecond.


----------



## AloEuro

Univision 41-1 became 68-2, wonderful


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/16621276
> 
> 
> Univision 41-1 became 68-2, wonderful



Soon every station will be a sub for the other


----------



## SubaruB4

I hope to pick some extra stations up with a rescan after the 12th.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Hightech* /forum/post/16620621
> 
> 
> Come on FOX, give us Fox News on a sub!!!



Ken H mentioned one time that Newscorp had plans for a Headline News type network for their subchannels. Don't know if it's still on the table, though.


----------



## LenL

Just a reminder for those of you who would like to report your before and after 6/12 results. I am using the format below but please use anything to show us what you got before and after.


It would be great if you can also tell us briefly where you are located and what equipement (antenna, TV, converter box, preamps etc) you are using.


I'm not getting all of these now but who knows what will happen after 6/12.


Also I see no point in reporting on the sub channels as their reception is tied to the primary anyway.



06/11/09 06/12/09 06/13/09

Station Net Ch Ch Sig lev Sig lev Sig lev

WCBSDT CBS 2.1 56/33

WNBCDT NBC 4.1 28

WNYWDT Fox 5.1 44

WABCDT ABC 7.1 45/7

WWORDTMyN 9.1 38

WPIXDT CW 11.1 33/11

WNETDT PBS 13.1 61/13

WLIWDT2 PBS 21.1 22

WNYEDT Ind 25.1 24

WFMEDT Ind 29.1 66

WPXNDT i 31.1 30

WXTVDT USI 41.1 40

WNJUDT HBC 47.1 36

WEDWDT PBS 49.1 52

WNJNDT PBS 50.1 51

WLNYDT Ind 55.1 57

WNJBDT PBS 58.1 8

WMBCDT Ind 63.1 18

WFTYDT Tel 67.1 23

WFUTDT Tel 68.1 53


----------



## LenL

The formatting got lost when it got posted but you get the idea....


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16625329
> 
> 
> Just a reminder for those of you who would like to report your before and after 6/12 results. I am using the format below but please use anything to show us what you got before and after.
> 
> 
> It would be great if you can also tell us briefly where you are located and what equipement (antenna, TV, converter box, preamps etc) you are using.
> 
> 
> I'm not getting all of these now but who knows what will happen after 6/12.
> 
> 
> Also I see no point in reporting on the sub channels as their reception is tied to the primary anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 06/11/09 06/12/09 06/13/09
> 
> Station Net Ch Ch Sig lev Sig lev Sig lev
> 
> WCBSDT CBS 2.1 56/33
> 
> WNBCDT NBC 4.1 28
> 
> WNYWDT Fox 5.1 44
> 
> WABCDT ABC 7.1 45/7
> 
> WWORDTMyN 9.1 38
> 
> WPIXDT CW 11.1 33/11
> 
> WNETDT PBS 13.1 61/13
> 
> WLIWDT2 PBS 21.1 22
> 
> WNYEDT Ind 25.1 24
> 
> WFMEDT Ind 29.1 66
> 
> WPXNDT i 31.1 30
> 
> WXTVDT USI 41.1 40
> 
> WNJUDT HBC 47.1 36
> 
> WEDWDT PBS 49.1 52
> 
> WNJNDT PBS 50.1 51
> 
> WLNYDT Ind 55.1 57
> 
> WNJBDT PBS 58.1 8
> 
> WMBCDT Ind 63.1 18
> 
> WFTYDT Tel 67.1 23
> 
> WFUTDT Tel 68.1 53




You may want to make some corrections concerning the correct channel numbers once the transition takes place.


WLIW - 21


WFME - 29


WPXN - 31


WEDW - 49


WLNY - 47


WFUT - 30


Channel 51 will be the last channel assigned to television!


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

Today was the first day I was able to pick up WNYN-LP (39.1) digitally.


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/16623985
> 
> 
> Ken H mentioned one time that Newscorp had plans for a Headline News type network for their subchannels. Don't know if it's still on the table, though.




I seems some folks are moving away from cable/sat to save a few bucks.(myself included). It think it would be great PR for the networks to provide their news channels on subs. I know it's unlikely but I shoot them an email every once in awhile for the hell of it.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16625511
> 
> 
> Today was the first day I was able to pick up WNYN-LP (39.1) digitally.



& I can now receive them in Rockland County. That brings my number up to 51 digital channels. I'm thinking of moving my antenna to the roof and buying a rotor.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i think the table is over complicated. i'm only saying this because the lack of formatting will make it difficult to read. a few suggestions and an example table:


1) there's no need to point out new and old channel numbers. "virtual channel" number is enough.

2) also, either enter the call letters or the network. i prefer the network. call letters suck.

3) "underscores" can separate columns better than spaces.

4) no need to write sub-channels as their levels should be the same as the main channel, right?

5) the 2 readings should be taken at the same time of the day, preferably after sundown.

6) maybe the use of the "


Code:


" tag can help formatting.


Code:
[CODE]NET_______CH____LEV___LEV

NBC_______4.1___50%___75%
FOX_______5.1___40%___80%
NYCTV____25.1___70%___80%
ION______31.1___30%___50%
.
.
.

i'll make my readings tonight.


----------



## LenL

I'll use most of your ideas! I prefer using 2.1 to CBS.


----------



## Falcon_77

Signal Test Spreadsheet (MS Excel)


I have attached the spreadsheet I use to test DTV signals throughout the country. I added NYC to this, for the post-transition setup. I left the other tabs available as examples on what I have done or for general info if anyone is interested.

 

Signal-Test-Worksheet.zip 27.701171875k . file


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

Seems like WNYN is now also testing it's subchannels. I'm guessing Island Broadcasting (owner of WNYN and 4 other stations) do the same as Fox and Univision (with WFUT), but that is me speculating.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16627440
> 
> 
> Seems like WNYN is now also testing it's subchannels. I'm guessing Island Broadcasting (owner of WNYN and 4 other stations) do the same as Fox and Univision (with WFUT), but that is me speculating.



How many subs?


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16627788
> 
> 
> How many subs?



4 sub channels (39.2-39.5)


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16627922
> 
> 
> 4 sub channels (39.2-39.5)



Nything on them now? Or just preparing?


----------



## LenL

Another Attempt. You can use, modify, etc if it helps or ignore. The formatting still gets messed up when I paste it.


___________________6/11___6/12____6/13


NET_______CH_____LEV_____LEV____LEV


WCBS______2.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNBC______4.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNYW______5.1____00%_____00%____00%

WABC______7.1____00%_____00%____00%

WWOR______9.1____00%_____00%____00%

WPIX_______11.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNET______13.1____00%_____00%____00%

WLIW_______21.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNYE______25.1____00%_____00%____00%

WLIW______21.1____00%_____00%____00%

WFME______29.1____00%_____00%____00%

WPXN_____31.1____00%_____00%____00%

WXTV_____41.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNJU_____47.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNJN_____50.1____00%_____00%____00%

WLNY_____55.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNJB_____58.1____00%_____00%____00%

WMBC_____63.1____00%_____00%____00%

WFUT_____68.1____00%_____00%____00%


----------



## LenL

in there twice...so delete one if you use the template


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16628211
> 
> 
> in there twice...so delete one if you use the template



In order to get everything to line up correctly, you'd have to change to a fixed width font like courier new


1 2 3

4 5 6

7 8 9


----------



## SnellKrell

Look at Falcon_77's post #8823 for a link to a highly professional NY DMA worksheet.


----------



## Kaloi64

I bought a cheap $10 antenna (sorry?) from Best Buy on Sunday just to see what I could get. I got 5.1 easily but had issues with the others. Today , I also get 4.1 ,7.1 & 9.1 and their subchannels. I'm 15 miles east of Manhattan.


Note: I'm having signal issues with 68.1, if fiddle with the antenna and hold it , it comes in fine. Seems to be a Spanish Channel called "eTV"


----------



## NYCLA*

Is WNBC forcing 4:3 on their OTA viewers with 4:3 analog televisions?


Up until today, I could use my Pal+ to change the aspect ratio on stations from "Normal" to "Full" to "Zoom". On WNBC, WCBS, WABC, etc etc, I could choose "Normal" and get their 16:9 broadcast picture in letterbox, which is what I prefer. Suddenly today, I get home from work, turn the set on, and I can no longer adjust the aspect ratio for WNBC 4.1 It seems that WNBC has added a broadcast flag to their signal that is overriding my box forcing my Pal+ to display 4.1 in "Zoom" mode, forcing me to watch programming in 4:3. WTF??? *This PISSES ME OFF!!!:*





















It should be MY choice how I want to view the picture. Even though I have a 4:3 analog set, I want to see the 16:9 letterboxed picture!!! If I wanted to watch their broadcast in 4:3 I could "Zoom" it myself. I don't like WNBC forcing this decision on me, and none of the other stations are doing this! Anyone else in the NY area want to check it out on your set and see if you have the same issue??


----------



## Trip in VA

Can anyone tell me if anything's on WNYN-LD's subchannels?


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16629651
> 
> 
> Is WNBC forcing 4:3 on their OTA viewers with 4:3 analog televisions?


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16629825



What kind of converter box do you have??? Was that picture taken this evening?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16629894
> 
> 
> What kind of converter box do you have??? Was that picture taken this evening?



CM-7000, using the S-Video output.

screenshot taken tonight using analog Hauppauge PVR-250.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16629907
> 
> 
> CM-7000, using the S-Video output.
> 
> screenshot taken tonight using analog Hauppauge PVR-250.



Thank you for doing that for me. I appreciate it very much.


Hmmm, well WNBC is the only channel I have this problem with. The others, as I said, I am able to adjust the aspect ratio. Any ideas what the issue may be? Anyone?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16629768
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me if anything's on WNYN-LD's subchannels?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip -


Here goes:

39.2 - Infomercial Dubbed in Spanish


39.3 - Different Infomercial Dubbed in Spanish


39.4 - Same Programming as 39.3


39.5 - Same as 39.3 (Poorer PQ than .3 or .4)


39.6 - Same as Main Channel 39.1 (Appears to be same PQ at 39.1 -

PQ for these two channels - best of all)


39.7 - Same Programming at 39.3 (Poor PQ)


39.8 - Same as above


39.9 - Same as above



A lot of subs - too many! Most have very poor PQ and AQ.


Hope this helps.


----------



## Trip in VA

Wow. I'd be curious to see what it looks like on TSReader.


- Trip


----------



## NYCLA*

Okay, I reset my Pal+ to factory settings, and ran the whole set up again, and I don't have the problem anymore, I can set WNBC to "Normal" again and view the 16:9 picture.


Weird. Oh well. Thanks again.

*EDIT:* *NOPE, I TAKE IT BACK!* After less than a minute, WNBC reverted to "Zoom" and it's stuck again and I cannot put it back to "Normal". *UGHHHHHHHH!!*


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16629978
> 
> *EDIT:* *NOPE, I TAKE IT BACK!* After less than a minute, WNBC reverted to "Zoom" and it's stuck again and I cannot put it back to "Normal". *UGHHHHHHHH!!*



maybe depends on the show that is on. right now they are airing Access Hollywood, which is 4:3.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16630075
> 
> 
> maybe depends on the show that is on. right now they are airing Access Hollywood, which is 4:3.



It never used to matter what show was on. But my converter simply for some reason will not let me adjust the aspect ratio anymore for 4.1, and it's being set to "Zoom" automatically. I wonder if the Channel Master box you have ignores broadcast flags?

*EDIT:* Okay "I'm a Celebrity Get me Out of Here" just came on, and now I can adjust the aspect ratio back to "Normal". So maybe you are right, but if so, then this is something new, and it still doesn't explain why you were able to see "NBC Nightly News" in 16:9 but I was forced to watch in 4:3 and unable to switch it to "Normal". Same thing for the WNBC local news.


----------



## ja2bk

FYI...


(sorry for the spacing, etc. but dont have the patience to make tables)


Channel Station________Sign Off________Sign On


02________WCBS ______2PM

56________WCBS DT______1PM

33________WCBS DT_____________________1:30PM

04________WNBC ______12:30PM

05________WNYW ______11:59PM

07________WABC ______12:30PM

07________WABC DT_____________________12:30PM

09________WWOR ______11:59PM

11________WPIX ______12:30PM

33________WPIX DT ______1PM

11________WPIX DT_____________________12:30PM

61________WNET DT______12:30PM

13________WNET ______12:30PM

13________WNET DT_____________________12:30PM

21________WLIW ______12:30PM

25________WNYE ______Afternoon

31________WPXN ______?

41________WXTV ______11:59PM


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16629768
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me if anything's on WNYN-LD's subchannels?
> 
> 
> - Trip



I asked my aunt. Answer I got. Another sub with Spanish and one with a picture of some kind. Like a poster or painting. Then the others are Infomercials



Where you expecting (ThisTV) or a News channel? lol


So far I can not find one Sub worth watching


----------



## nordloewelabs












source: http://www.myfoxny.com/subindex/about_us/dtv_change


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16630894
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source: http://www.myfoxny.com/subindex/about_us/dtv_change


*"What is your question for our engineer?"*


I asked him for the best DELI in NYC.


----------



## nordloewelabs

Code:


Code:


___________________6/11___6/12____6/13

net_______ch_____lev______lev_____lev

wcbs______2.1_____60%_____00%____00%
wnbc______4.1____100%_____00%____00%
wnyw______5.1____100%_____00%____00%
wabc______7.1_____00%_____00%____00%
wwor______9.1_____90%_____00%____00%
wpix______11.1____60%_____00%____00%
wnet______13.1____00%_____00%____00%
wliw______21.1____00%_____00%____00%
wnye______25.1____70%_____00%____00%
wfme______29.1____00%_____00%____00%
wpxn______31.1____50%_____00%____00%
wxtv______41.1____90%_____00%____00%
wnju______47.1____00%_____00%____00%
wnjn______50.1____00%_____00%____00%
wlny______55.1____00%_____00%____00%
wnjb______58.1____00%_____00%____00%
wmbc______63.1____00%_____00%____00%
wfut______68.1____50%_____00%____00%


----------



## speedlaw

Ha ! have programmed the DVR's for sign off on analog 2, 5, 9 and 7. We'll see if it is flash cut or if anyone has a surprise or two. Checking youtube for shutoffs showed a wide variety of signoffs, ranging from retrospectives to "hiss".


----------



## SubaruB4

well that helps.. right now fox 5 has a crawl going on the analog feed warning any remaining people who may think the switch is not going to happen..


(trust me people think it's just to get people worked up..)


5-1 is really broken up for me..


I'm really don't know if the signal levels are going to improve any after June 12th..


the funny thing is I thought the two stations 5 and 9 are they shutting off tonight or is it tomorrow night? I don't know if the 11:59Pm means tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/16631069
> 
> 
> Ha ! have programmed the DVR's for sign off on analog 2, 5, 9 and 7. We'll see if it is flash cut or if anyone has a surprise or two. Checking youtube for shutoffs showed a wide variety of signoffs, ranging from retrospectives to "hiss".


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4MaxAS31xw 


and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgnAQ...rom=PL&index=7 


From a different part of the country. Just shows you a few stations making the switch. I guess this is what we have to look forward too tomorrow


----------



## NYCLA*























Screw WNBC and their aspect ratio #^¢&* broadcast flag
























I'm calling their BOC tomorrow and complaining. It's so brainless. I fricken hate them.


----------



## SubaruB4

I wonder if we will get a transmitter room view? but listening to WABC's news cast at 5Pm they hinted at it was just going to be a flash cut.. no special showings or anything like that..


----------



## StudioTech

Here's what was shown throughout WXTV's (Univision 41) news tonight on the analog feed.

 


Then at 11:28, they went to the color bar, not ready for digital TV message for about 5 minutes.


----------



## Kaloi64




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16631185
> 
> 
> well that helps.. right now fox 5 has a crawl going on the analog feed warning any remaining people who may think the switch is not going to happen...



I see it: "URGENT...If you are seeing this message, you are NOT ready for the DTV transition. You will lose this Analog TV signal today at 11:59 PM. If you need additional information on the Digital Transition, call 1-888 225-5322."


Edit: I see the same message on Channel 9


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16630832
> 
> 
> Where you expecting (ThisTV) or a News channel? lol



No, I just wanted to know so I had some idea what to put on my website.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier

As of 6:20 AM, I just turned on my TV real quick to see if I notice anything, did not do a re-scan, and the only thing I notice is that I do not get ION anymore, but I don't know if they switched yet or if this is because of the weather overnight ( those were some thunderstorms).

I thought ION was suppose to increase power after today.


Update: Something must be up with ION, because at work, where we are closer to the city and get a stronger signal, cannot get ION OTA either.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16632416
> 
> 
> Update: Something must be up with ION, because at work, where we are closer to the city and get a stronger signal, cannot get ION OTA either.



In Northwestern Brooklyn, as of 8:20 AM I am not getting ION either analog or digital OTA.


----------



## hdtvjunkie247

I have Comcast and this is the message being displayed when I tune to WPXN:


"WPXN is currently performing maintenance as part of the Federally mandated DTV transition. WPXN will be restored shortly."


----------



## dvdchance

I just did a rescan, seems ION is back. My TV doesn't let me see the actual channel only the re-mapped number, so I'm only assuming it's now on RF30.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16633360
> 
> 
> I just did a rescan, seems ION is back. My TV doesn't let me see the actual channel only the re-mapped number, so I'm only assuming it's now on RF30.




WPXN-DT is now transmitting on RF31, its virtual channel number!


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16633530
> 
> 
> WPXN-DT is now transmitting on RF31, its virtual channel number!



That's right they were on RF30 previously. They are now at their perm location.


----------



## SubaruB4

thanks for the heads up about ION


what about 13-1?


did they change as well?


I don't want to rescan right now because I might loose some stations I had before the weather got bad.


i will rescan around 2Am.


----------



## LenL

Should be transitioned today by 1:30 PM.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16633530
> 
> 
> WPXN-DT is now transmitting on RF31, its virtual channel number!



Still can't get it. I barely peak it at about 15%. If they are running in full power I still can't get it. I hope channel 7 and 11 is not like this in a hour.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16634167
> 
> 
> Still can't get it. I barely peak it at about 15%. If they are running in full power I still can't get it. I hope channel 7 and 11 is not like this in a hour.



I have the same issue.. it was fine before they switched over to the new channel location..


I liked watching the older movies.



I hope it's just the weather...


I wish this LG box would show a signal percent instead of a signal bar.


----------



## reddice

Yea but I was never able to get ION. So far the first station to switch to digital and I can't get it. Does not look like a good sign so far.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16634353
> 
> 
> Yea but I was never able to get ION. So far the first station to switch to digital and I can't get it. Does not look like a good sign so far.



Look on the bright side.


At least you won't be missing it!


----------



## lexus2108

WOW I just saw fox news who said.


2 million people with OTA have yet to get a BOX. And people are waiting on BIG lines today. Man oh man. They had proper warning


They showed BIG lines like at Christmas time

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/06/dtv-transition/


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16634353
> 
> 
> Yea but I was never able to get ION. So far the first station to switch to digital and I can't get it. Does not look like a good sign so far.



I was able to get it at 70-80% but now it's less then 20% I don't know what the LG box starts to show a picture at but most of the time I get no signal now.


----------



## SnellKrell

Coming in loud and clear!


Just slightly lower SNR% than previously, but haven't reoriented my indoor antenna until more stations switch.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16634523
> 
> 
> WOW I just saw fox news who said.
> 
> 
> 2 million people with OTA have yet to get a BOX. And people are waiting on BIG lines today. Man oh man. They had proper warning
> 
> 
> They showed BIG lines like at Christmas time
> 
> http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/06/dtv-transition/



Someone is always going to be behind.. like I said before most thought or might of thought..


1.) They would delay it again.. (we had how many delays?)


2.) government just wants to work us up.. (yes some fokes are like that...)


3.) They think nothing will change after the switch..


I wonder how much they are going to save not having to run both transmitters now.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> 2 million people with OTA have yet to get a BOX. And people are waiting on BIG lines today. Man oh man. They had proper warning
> 
> 
> They showed BIG lines like at Christmas time



typical human nature.... postpone something till kingdom come.


i get 31.1 at 70%. it was 50% at 11pm last night.


----------



## dvdchance

WABC7 analog off the air now...they did a countdown on the noon news to it.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16634672
> 
> 
> WABC7 analog off the air now...they did a countdown on the noon news to it.



Same with WNBC, WNET, WPIX

WNBC has some kind of infomercial going on now on DTV


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16634672
> 
> 
> WABC7 analog off the air now...they did a countdown on the noon news to it.



ABC:

Does the Digital Switch from 45 to 7 Happen at the same time?


----------



## SubaruB4

WABC just switched lol anyone see the delay of the signal being taken out? Also WNBC is showing the DTV "nightlight"


----------



## reddice

Well I was right. Can't get digital channel 7, 11 or 13. I can only peak it in the 20's. This sux.


----------



## SubaruB4

crap I forgot WABC switched back to VHF lol i'm left with a little issue.. my apartment antenna is VHF but my silver sensor is UHF do they have something where you can combine the two?


Also is it just me or did WABC-TV mean to show the eyewitness screen with the music before they signed off? i don't think I saw other markets do that.


----------



## reddice

I moved the antenna everywhere and the highest I can peak it is 51%


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16634711
> 
> 
> crap I forgot WABC switched back to VHF lol i'm left with a little issue.. my apartment antenna is VHF but my silver sensor is UHF do they have something where you can combine the two?



YES there is, I bought one as a backup for my Aunt. I will not know if it works till this weekend.

http://www.markertek.com/CATV-Headen...Inc/UVSJ.xhtml 


or

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ 



It has a very low signal loss. However better to get a VHF/UHF antenna. I like the terk-55 for under 15 miles away. And I am going to try a Clearstream C2 this weekend


----------



## Berk32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16634711
> 
> 
> crap I forgot WABC switched back to VHF lol i'm left with a little issue.. my apartment antenna is VHF but my silver sensor is UHF do they have something where you can combine the two?



WPIX and WNET too


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16634711
> 
> 
> crap I forgot WABC switched back to VHF lol i'm left with a little issue.. my apartment antenna is VHF but my silver sensor is UHF do they have something where you can combine the two?



Did this VHF switch happen at the same time as Analog shut off


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

WLIW is still in analog as of this moment.


----------



## nordloewelabs

7.1 out.

11.1 out.

13.1 in (signal at 20%, though).

25.1 has gone from 70% (measured last night) to 90%. still 480i, though.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16634695
> 
> 
> Well I was right. Can't get digital channel 7, 11 or 13. I can only peak it in the 20's. This sux.



Nor I. Lost indoor reception of 7, 11, 13. I'm 13 miles east of ESB with direct line of sight of the antenna. Can't get ION D31 either


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16634843
> 
> 
> 7.1 out.
> 
> 11.1 out.
> 
> 13.1 in (signal at 20%, though).
> 
> 25.1 has gone from 70% (measured last night) to 90%. still 480i, though.



When does these channels come back?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16634871
> 
> 
> Nor I. Lost indoor reception of 7, 11, 13. I'm 13 miles east of ESB with direct line of sight of the antenna. Can't get ION D31 either



ION is back


----------



## Berk32

Just found WPIX-DT on 11.3 (and LATV on 11.4)


WNET on 13.5



EDIT: ok nevermind - after a rescan at 1pm they are where they should be


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16634876
> 
> 
> When does these channels come back?



what i meant was: i cant see ABC or CW because they switched back to high VHF and my crappy home made antenna is a loop (good for UHF). gonna try some improvisation now with extra wires and hangers.


----------



## reddice

I can get channel 7 the same signal strengh if I point the antenna in the opposite direction that I had it but then 11 and 13 are weaker. Channel 11 is the weakest.


----------



## reddice

Here is the weird part. I am getting channel 13 and 11 in the high 40's and it is not breaking up.


----------



## lexus2108

Question:


Are these channels back after the switch or still BLACK screen in digital?


7.1

11.1

13.1

25.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

WABC and WNET on my indoor amp. Antenna. The converter box sees WPIX and WPXN but their signal is too week to get a picture. On my other HDTV with monoprice outdoor antenna and pre-amp, it has all four stations.


WCBS-DT is off RF 56 and WLIW analog is off.


----------



## John Chu

Hmmmm, I'm hoping not to have to buy a VHF antenna if I can help it [love my old UHF Radio Shack Double Bow-Tie].


Looks like there are still doing some tweaking....WABC and WPIX is still kind of pixelated and unstable, I might have to get that VHF antenna after all.


There is a combiner/separator you can buy to use both your UHF and VHF antennas.


EDIT: Looks like this transition affect early adopters also!







Got to go pick up a VHF antenna.


----------



## icemannyr

I just did two scans and I can't get, WABC, WCBS or WPIX with my indoor powered antenna. I used to get them fine before the DTV transition.


----------



## reddice

The thing that annoys me is that I can get channel 7 in the 60's but then I lose channels 11 and 13. If I get those stronger then I lose channel 7. Talk about progress. With analog I got those channels fine anywhere I point the antenna but with digital it is a pain in the a$$ to get reliable reception.


----------



## Berk32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/16635091
> 
> 
> I just did two scans and I can't get, WABC, WCBS or WPIX with my indoor powered antenna. I used to get them fine before the DTV transition.



WCBS will be missing until ~1:30 (moving from 56 to 33)


the other 2 shifted their HD signals to VHF channels... so if your antenna is UHF only...


----------



## reddice

The thing is I got to point my antenna towards the window to be able to get the UHF channels but with the VHF channels I got to point them in the opposite direction but then I loose channel 4, 5 and 9. 47 and 66 are fine any direction I point them.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16634711
> 
> 
> crap I forgot WABC switched back to VHF lol i'm left with a little issue.. my apartment antenna is VHF but my silver sensor is UHF do they have something where you can combine the two?





Yes, Radio Shack sells a combiner. It isn't an expensive item.


----------



## reddice

All I know is I am glad channel 9 decided to stay on UHF channel 38.


----------



## SnellKrell

Don't dismiss the Silver Sensor, it's doing just fine picking up High UHF -

7, 11 and 13 for me!


----------



## tahoejoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/16635091
> 
> 
> I just did two scans and I can't get, WABC, WCBS or WPIX with my indoor powered antenna. I used to get them fine before the DTV transition.




Scanned around 1 pm and same here ( about 20 miles west of ESB) using an attic antenna that had no problems before the switch.


----------



## FrankH3rd

All New York City stations except WCBS are strong signals in Hillsborough NJ (about 40 miles SW of NYC).


Setup- attic mounted suburban VHF-UHF antenna (Channel Master CM3016) and Zenith DTT901 converter.


What happened to WCBS??


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/16635329
> 
> 
> Scanned around 1 pm and same here ( about 20 miles west of ESB) using an attic antenna that had no problems before the switch.



Hi, Can you also please post the antenna type/model you are using right now? Are you using CM-4221? I am losing hope on my Eagle-aspen DB2 in getting the High VHF. I am at work now, so I can't really test the setup.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/16635329
> 
> 
> Scanned around 1 pm and same here ( about 20 miles west of ESB) using an attic antenna that had no problems before the switch.



is CBS broadcasting in digital from the new channel? they were supposed to sign on the new channel at 1:30pm. maybe they havent yet.


is 13.1 still on? i was getting them at 20% but i lost them completely.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16635385
> 
> 
> All New York City stations except WCBS are strong signals in Hillsborough NJ (about 40 miles SW of NYC).
> 
> 
> Setup- attic mounted suburban VHF-UHF antenna (Channel Master CM3016) and Zenith DTT901 converter.
> 
> 
> What happened to WCBS??



WCBS-DT, Channel 33 is due to sign-on at 2:00 p.m.


----------



## icemannyr

I'm using the RadioShack Indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna. Model: 15-1892.


----------



## FrankH3rd

Ch 13.1 strong signal in Hillsborugh NJ 40 mi SW of NYC (Channel Master CM3016 suburban antenna mounted in attic, Zenith DTT901 converter).


WCBS still no on ch 33 at 13:47


----------



## vallieone

Can anyone get WLIW-21? Had it around noon lost it now.


Thanks


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16635385
> 
> 
> All New York City stations except WCBS are strong signals in Hillsborough NJ (about 40 miles SW of NYC).
> 
> 
> Setup- attic mounted suburban VHF-UHF antenna (Channel Master CM3016) and Zenith DTT901 converter.
> 
> 
> What happened to WCBS??



I'm in South Bound Brook, NJ. I rescanned my MythTV system about 1/2 hour ago. As of then, 11-1 is still using 33 (which will be used by 2-1) and the old 2-1 on 56 is off the air.


Looks like good news here so far. 13-1 moving to VHF 13 is a _huge_ improvement for me. That was occasionally a real problem for me, and now I'm getting it at about 80%. I have a 120" Radio Shack combo UHF/VHF roof mounted antenna and a CM7777 amp. 7-1 is better on VHF 7 as well.


Tom


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16635450
> 
> 
> Ch 13.1 strong signal in Hillsborugh NJ 40 mi SW of NYC (Channel Master CM3016 suburban antenna mounted in attic, Zenith DTT901 converter).
> 
> 
> WCBS still no on ch 33 at 13:47



So the 13.1 is coming fine at 40 miles. Atleast, now I am confident that I will be able to get all th VHF channels too. Question is whether my current antenna can do the job or whether I need a bigger antenna. I noticed today that solid-signal have decreased the price for CM-4221HD to $42 shipped from $55 (shipped before).


----------



## icemannyr

I just switched to a different tuner and did a re scan. Still can't find WABC-DT.


Now Ch11 and 13 are found but not strong enough to tune in.

The tuner could never find WNET-DT in it's previous UHF location.


WNYE has jumped to 100% signal.

WNJN-DT NJ PBS is now simulcasting their radio station on 50.3.


Did Univison merge WXTV Univision and WFTU TeleFutura

into one digital UHF channel 40?


WXTV Univison 41 is now 40.1 and TeleFutura is 41.2.


I figured out what's going on with WXTV and WFTU.

They have done a FOX and My9 by adding their sister channel as a sub channel.


WXTV 41.1 has WFTU as a sub on 40.2

WFTU 68.1 has WXTV as a sub on 68.2


----------



## tahoejoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16635390
> 
> 
> Hi, Can you also please post the antenna type/model you are using right now? Are you using CM-4221? I am losing hope on my Eagle-aspen DB2 in getting the High VHF. I am at work now, so I can't really test the setup.




Model: U-75R
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103088


----------



## raj2001

All fine for me here, except 2.1.


This is at work btw, in midtown on 6th ave.


The antenna is a straightened paper clip inserted into the antenna socket.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16635420
> 
> 
> WCBS-DT, Channel 33 is due to sign-on at 2:00 p.m.



As of right now, I can still get analog WCBS at work, but no WCBS-DT on 33.1


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/16635737
> 
> 
> All fine for me here, except 2.1.
> 
> 
> This is at work btw, in midtown on 6th ave.
> 
> 
> The antenna is a straightened paper clip inserted into the antenna socket.



How much do you charge for your paper clip antenna? Do they come in colors?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/16635737
> 
> 
> All fine for me here, except 2.1.
> 
> 
> This is at work btw, in midtown on 6th ave.
> 
> 
> The antenna is a straightened paper clip inserted into the antenna socket.



you bastard.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16635743
> 
> 
> As of right now, I can still get analog WCBS at work, but no WCBS-DT on 33.1



they decided to stick with analog. and they're going back to B&W as well.


----------



## vallieone

Ok got it now.


Boy this is frustrating


----------



## MeatChicken

I read that WNYW 5 & WOR 9 are waiting until 11:59 PM to compete shutdown .


----------



## dvdchance

WCBS-HD is back on now.


----------



## reddice

Finally I am getting channel 2. Getting in the 60's to low 70's. Too bad the high VHF channels 7, 11 and 13 are still weak reception with channel 11 being the worse. I am getting 13 in the 50's but at least I can get channel 13.


----------



## mikepier

Wow, analog WCBS is doing an official sign-off with the national anthem. Just like the good ol days (or nights). And right before sign-off it showed the old B&W CBS test signal pattern.

They said they will do a nitelight starting at 3PM


----------



## nordloewelabs

what happens if reception of the high VHF channels remains bad? can they easily strengthen their signals or would that be both bureaucratic and expensive? i'll get a Terk HDTVa this weekend i think, but now i'm not very confident about high VHF.


----------



## reddice

By the way what is a night lite. I see that channel 4 analog is doing it. For how long is it done for before they turn it off.


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16636059
> 
> 
> By the way what is a night lite. I see that channel 4 analog is doing it. For how long is it done for before they turn it off.



30 days.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16635967
> 
> 
> WCBS-HD is back on now.



can get at 33-1 but no longer via 2-1 ?

are they going to get 2-1 working?


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16636034
> 
> 
> Wow, analog WCBS is doing an official sign-off with the national anthem. Just like the good ol days (or nights). And right before sign-off it showed the old B&W CBS test signal pattern.




I hope someone was recording that. I would like to see the classic sign-off.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16635217
> 
> 
> Don't dismiss the Silver Sensor, it's doing just fine picking up High UHF -
> 
> 7, 11 and 13 for me!




You live much closer to the ESB then me.. my signal level with the Silver Sensor is 0% when it switched back to VHF (I can use the roof antenna) it's peaking at 95% at all times same goes with channel 13 and it's sub channels.


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16635967
> 
> 
> WCBS-HD is back on now.



Not as far as I can see. They're certainly not using the new frequency (33) as 11-1 is still using it.


You'd think those two would have coordinated that one better ya know?


Tom


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16636056
> 
> 
> what happens if reception of the high VHF channels remains bad? can they easily strengthen their signals or would that be both bureaucratic and expensive? i'll get a Terk HDTVa this weekend i think, but now i'm not very confident about high VHF.



I am only 4 miles from the ESB. I have the Terk HDTVi the non amplified version. I am thinking about trying the HDTVa version. The problem is that I am adjusting those long antennas and if I move it too high or just move it a bit the reception fluctuates a lot. Also I can get channel 7 the way I use to get it but I have to have one antenna up and one antenna down. Also I have to point it away from the window which at the same time makes UHF channels except channel 47 and 66 weak.


----------



## MeatChicken

I've got CBS 2-1 on 33 now.


----------



## reddice

I soon as I punched in 33 it locked in CBS 2-1. I am getting it like I use it get channel 11 but VHF 11 I am getting real weak and crappy. The weakest of the stations.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16635159
> 
> 
> Yes, Radio Shack sells a combiner. It isn't an expensive item.



I don't see it listed on the site I just see the one for the 75 ohm leads.


----------



## dm145

WOW. They had years to prepare for this and it's a mess.

What are the non tech people going to do tonight when they can't find CBS?

They aren't going to look for 33-1 that's for sure.

Nice job, I would get fired for this type of screw up!


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16636170
> 
> 
> I've got CBS 2-1 on 33 now.



I'm still getting 11-1 on 33. I can tell because of the current program (Judge Jeanine Pirro).


How is it possible for anyone else to be getting anything different?? That seems impossible.


Tom


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tld* /forum/post/16636242
> 
> 
> I'm still getting 11-1 on 33. I can tell because of the current program (Judge Jeanine Pirro).
> 
> 
> How is it possible for anyone else to be getting anything different?? That seems impossible.
> 
> 
> Tom



Perhaps it's a readout "quirk" of your box/equipment.

Do A Re-scan.


----------



## SubaruB4

my WABC-TV digital switchover is on youtube now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO2M4x7Rnq8


----------



## dm145

why wouldn't they just kill the analog and leave the digital alone?

why move things around and confuse people even more?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16636208
> 
> 
> WOW. They had years to prepare for this and it's a mess.
> 
> What are the non tech people going to do tonight when they can't find CBS?
> 
> They aren't going to look for 33-1 that's for sure.
> 
> Nice job, I would get fired for this type of screw up!



do you work for a tv or cable station? it's not as easy as flipping a switch and punching a few buttons. you can do all the prep work in the world but if there are problems you can't forsee, problems will occur. especially in a situation where you're waiting for another network to vacate a frequency then flip your own.


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16636265
> 
> 
> Perhaps it's a readout "quirk" of your box/equipment.
> 
> Do A Re-scan.



Never mind...the rescan I'm doing right now appears to have finally changed it correctly.


Tom


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16636056
> 
> 
> what happens if reception of the high VHF channels remains bad? can they easily strengthen their signals or would that be both bureaucratic and expensive? i'll get a Terk HDTVa this weekend i think, but now i'm not very confident about high VHF.



it's not like turning a knob to increase transmit power. transmit power/height/etc are regulated by the fcc and yes its very expensive.

VHF high is better for DTV than UHF but if you guys are all equipped with UHF antennas that is the problem. VHF low (2-6) on the other hand is subject to all sorts of electrical and FM interference so its no good for dtv.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16635159
> 
> 
> Yes, Radio Shack sells a combiner. It isn't an expensive item.



Is it nothing but a 2-way splitter?


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16636280
> 
> 
> why wouldn't they just kill the analog and leave the digital alone?
> 
> why move things around and confuse people even more?



One Reason:

Because for _some_ stations, the Analog signal was on their "better" main frequency (channel), & they wanted to retain the "main" transmitters & antenna/ location for a better Digital signal after today.

This meant shutting off the "temporary" lower power Dig frequency, & moving digital to the (now) unused analog freq. ( Ch 7, 11, 13).


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16634744
> 
> 
> I moved the antenna everywhere and the highest I can peak it is 51%



give it time (a day or two or a week). all networks will be doing tweaking in the coming days. you don't reallly expect with all these changes, there will be no impact to your reception. for the most part people will see improvements in signal levels.


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16636350
> 
> 
> Is it nothing but a 2-way splitter?



You can use a 2-way splitter, but there are V/U combiners as well.

If all you can find is a splitter, go ahead & try it.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/16636319
> 
> 
> it's not like turning a knob to increase transmit power. transmit power/height/etc are regulated by the fcc and yes its very expensive.
> 
> VHF high is better for DTV than UHF but if you guys are all equipped with UHF antennas that is the problem. VHF low (2-6) on the other hand is subject to all sorts of electrical and FM interference so its no good for dtv.



Thats always what I thought. I remember in the "old" days my mother turning on the vacuum or hair dryer and Ch 2 or 4 turning to interference totally, while the higher channels, 7, 9,11 were hardly effected.


So then why are some stations, like Ch 6 in Philly, switching back to VHF low?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16636395
> 
> 
> You can use a 2-way splitter, but there are V/U combiners as well.
> 
> If all you can find is a splitter, go ahead & try it.



I only asked because when I searched for "combiner" on the RS site 2-way splitters were the only thing that came up.. I will check the retail store in just a few but I should also have some splitters at home.


----------



## gjvrieze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16636499
> 
> 
> I only asked because when I searched for "combiner" on the RS site 2-way splitters were the only thing that came up.. I will check the retail store in just a few but I should also have some splitters at home.



Doesn't hurt to try, but Pico Micro makes a great little product:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ


----------



## icemannyr

I've now got every channel but WPIX-DT and WABC-DT back in Northern, NJ.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16636366
> 
> 
> One Reason:
> 
> Because for _some_ stations, the Analog signal was on their "better" main frequency (channel), & they wanted to retain the "main" transmitters & antenna/ location for a better Digital signal after today.
> 
> This meant shutting off the "temporary" lower power Dig frequency, & moving digital to the (now) unused analog freq. ( Ch 7, 11, 13).



that's fine, but many are complaining that signals is weaker?


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16636399
> 
> 
> So then why are some stations, like Ch 6 in Philly, switching back to VHF low?




I'd give you an opinionated answer, but I'm impersonating a diplomat this week.


Needless to say, less than 40 full power stations across the country decided to stay on 2-6, so there's probably a comparison to a bag of hammers somewhere in that decision...


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16636720
> 
> 
> I'd give you an opinionated answer, but I'm impersonating a diplomat this week.
> 
> 
> Needless to say, less than 40 full power stations across the country decided to stay on 2-6, so there's probably a comparison to a bag of hammers somewhere in that decision...



You sound like me, when talking about how CBS was assigned the SAME F'ING RF CHANNEL (33) IN ADJACENT MARKETS (NY and Hartford/New Haven)


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/16636394
> 
> 
> give it time (a day or two or a week). all networks will be doing tweaking in the coming days. you don't reallly expect with all these changes, there will be no impact to your reception. for the most part people will see improvements in signal levels.



ah yeah, i did

this was years in the making plus four months

say what you want but this was poorly planned


to answer your earlier question about my line of work

i'm in IT for a medium sized company

any server or network upgrades we perform better go off smoothly

or in some cases heads do roll


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16636399
> 
> 
> So then why are some stations, like Ch 6 in Philly, switching back to VHF low?



6 is probably OK, it's the "highest of the V-lo freqs.

Ch 2 & 4 also require much longer antennas than what's practical for indoor "rabbit ears" .


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16636714
> 
> 
> that's fine, but many are complaining that signals is weaker?



A lot of that has to do with people who have UHF only antennas, or antennas that are more efficient at UHF suddenly trying to get VHF with them.

My guess is as many or More people will see an increase in sig strength on 7 - 13 .

Remember too, radio wave propagation is affected by many factors. There will of course be areas where a UHF comes in better than ch 11, & vice versa.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16636764
> 
> 
> 6 is probably OK, it's the "highest of the V-lo freqs.
> 
> Ch 2 & 4 also require much longer antennas than what's practical for indoor "rabbit ears" .



6 is right next to FM band and is subject to interference from the lowest of the FM broadcast frequencies. If your local PR, college, or religious stations is close by, you'd get a ton of interference from them.


Besides, when was the last time you saw an antenna for VHF-low that didn't cover all the way down to channel 2 at 54 MHz.


Hey, maybe FM antennas might work well enough for the channel 6 victims, er..., customers across the country.


Dangit! I picked the wrong week to pretend to be a diplomat...


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16636755
> 
> 
> ah yeah, i did
> 
> this was years in the making plus four months
> 
> say what you want but this was poorly planned
> 
> 
> to answer your earlier question about my line of work
> 
> i'm in IT for a medium sized company
> 
> any server or network upgrades we perform better go off smoothly
> 
> or in some cases heads do roll



Jeez - talk about apples to oranges...


here's an analogy - would you plan a single-point-of-failure release, with zero downtime, on a server hanging in the sky, and unaccessable?


I didn't think so.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16635786
> 
> 
> How much do you charge for your paper clip antenna? Do they come in colors?



I can give you one for free if you like.










I have a telescoping whip in a drawer around here somewhere but I'm lazy to look for it.


As for colors - I prefer the silver ones but I have all colors.


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16636839
> 
> 
> Besides, when was the last time you saw an antenna for VHF-low that didn't cover all the way down to channel 2 at 54 MHz....



They all claim to "cover" ...

But they are much less efficient at Ch 2 .. especially indoor "rabbit ears" & setop antennas ...

At 54Mhz, each "rod" of the ears would need to be almost 5ft long each to be a true 1/4 wavelength... So many of these indoor antennas use loads & other tricks to comprimise the full length, while at the same time they _really are_ physically a full 1/4 or even 1/2 or more wavelength at the higher frequencies, resulting in higher receive gain at the higher channels.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16635840
> 
> 
> I read that WNYW 5 & WOR 9 are waiting until 11:59 PM to compete shutdown .



Yes that's correct. We're analog to the very bitter end.


----------



## raj2001

This is kinda strange - There are TWO 2.1's here. One of them is showing a still of central park, and the other is WCBS.


I wonder if it's someone in this building playing around with an ATSC transmitter or something.







Sick joke?


----------



## mikepier

Same here


When I do a re-scan, I am getting 2 seperate 2.1's, one is CBS, and the other is just a live still shot of a rooftop. The channel guide just says "channel" and it says "digital audio" as opposed to "dolby digital" on all my other channels. Now here's the wierd part. When I switch to another channel, all my sound is gone. I have to shut off my TV and turn it back on to get the sound back. All this after I tune in to this "alternate 2.1" . apparantly its causing a glitch in my tv. Anyone else see this channel?


----------



## kousikb

To people using Vista media center or some other PVR which relies on Guide data from internet for scheduled recording: Can you please also post your findings on guide data update and any recording behavior anomaly during the transition? I am really not sure whether the guide metadata uses the station callsign or virtual channel number or the physical channel number to associate a show. I hope that they are using virtual channel number to differentiate between the main and sub.


----------



## eclectogeek

Oh no - big problems in NJ. 35 miles due west of NYC in Morris county. Was getting everything but 13 really good before changeover. As of noon today, no channel 7 or 11. Almost no signal (like 10%) on 7 or 11 and I am running a VHF antenna in addition to a UHF 4228 and amp. Very disappointing.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16636957
> 
> 
> Same here
> 
> 
> When I do a re-scan, I am getting 2 seperate 2.1's, one is CBS, and the other is just a live still shot of a rooftop. The channel guide just says "channel" and it says "digital audio" as opposed to "dolby digital" on all my other channels. Now here's the wierd part. When I switch to another channel, all my sound is gone. I have to shut off my TV and turn it back on to get the sound back. All this after I tune in to this "alternate 2.1" . apparantly its causing a glitch in my tv. Anyone else see this channel?



I am.


Where are you?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16636499
> 
> 
> I only asked because when I searched for "combiner" on the RS site 2-way splitters were the only thing that came up.. I will check the retail store in just a few but I should also have some splitters at home.



Check my posts a page back or two I posted two links for a good cheap combiner


----------



## raj2001

Now the phantom 2.1 appears to be gone.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/16637012
> 
> 
> Now the phantom 2.1 appears to be gone.



Long Island. But what was really freaky was it killed my sound on the TV after tuning to that channel. I believe the actual channel was 30.


On a side note I'm happy to report I still have all my channels plus 13 now, which I could never get.

Still waiting for Ch5 and Ch 9 tonite.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16636499
> 
> 
> I only asked because when I searched for "combiner" on the RS site 2-way splitters were the only thing that came up.. I will check the retail store in just a few but I should also have some splitters at home.



Here is the combiner refered to:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062059 


When I used the combiner I was using RG6 for my VHF feed and foam 300 ohm (Lower loss than coax) for my UHF feed. It combined both feeds into a single F connector output.


The picture is a bit deceiving. There's a F connector on one side of the little plastic box and on the other there's a 300 ohm input and a 75 ohm F connector jack.


----------



## seamus21514

I'm in northern Staten Island, I'm getting everything except WABC-DT. It's great to have Thirteen now!


----------



## mw390

Out here in Levittown, (Nassau County 25 miles east of ESB). Channels 2,4,5,6,7,9,11,13 93-100 % depending upon the device I'm using (DTVPAL DVR, Sony DHG-HDD250, Panasonic DMR-EZ27 DVD recorder)


----------



## KML-224

Who is channel 6 in your case? WEDY-DT (PBS) of New Haven is using channel 6.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16637043
> 
> 
> Still waiting for Ch5 and Ch 9 tonite.



They are staying on channels 44 and 38 so what are you waiting for?


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eclectogeek* /forum/post/16636981
> 
> 
> Oh no - big problems in NJ. 35 miles due west of NYC in Morris county. Was getting everything but 13 really good before changeover. As of noon today, no channel 7 or 11. Almost no signal (like 10%) on 7 or 11 and I am running a VHF antenna in addition to a UHF 4228 and amp. Very disappointing.



Did you really expect a 10 year old government mandated switch over to go without a hitch?










Give it a few days or weeks, eventually it will be worked out.










You have a lot of hard working engineers doing their very best!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16637450
> 
> 
> Did you really expect a 10 year old government mandated switch over to go without a hitch?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it a few days or weeks, eventually it will be worked out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a lot of hard working engineers doing their very best!



Sounds like a few who work in the TV industry are here on this board


How many BUCKS do they have to pass on to others?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/16636735
> 
> 
> You sound like me, when talking about how CBS was assigned the SAME F'ING RF CHANNEL (33) IN ADJACENT MARKETS (NY and Hartford/New Haven)




there are a few channels in nyc dma that are on the same frequency as the hartford dma but in the digital world its much less of an issue than in analog world. those in between the 2 markets probably have difficulty picking up either signal. keep in mind tv stations used to occupy ch2-68. as of today is 2-51. there's going to be lots of same channel usage in adjacent markets.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16637121
> 
> 
> Here is the combiner refered to:
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062059
> 
> 
> When I used the combiner I was using RG6 for my VHF feed and foam 300 ohm (Lower loss than coax) for my UHF feed. It combined both feeds into a single F connector output.
> 
> 
> The picture is a bit deceiving. There's a F connector on one side of the little plastic box and on the other there's a 300 ohm input and a 75 ohm F connector jack.




I got this one instead since I did not find the other

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...gs#showReviews


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

I have couple quick questions. How many SD feeds does one HD feed take? I recently read that ABC O&Os will add ABC News Now to their subchannels in July. So I wondering with WABC-HD, Live Well HD, and weather feed, will they have space to have all three and ABC News Now?


----------



## SubaruB4

I don't know about anyone else but what is on RF channel 8? Is that WTNH out of New Haven? the signal is just low enough not to get station info.


I don't think it can be WTNH because I could never get them period before the switch over and my antenna is not pointed that way.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16637583
> 
> 
> I have couple quick questions. How many SD feeds does one HD feed take? I recently read that ABC O&Os will add ABC News Now to their subchannels in July. So I wondering with WABC-HD, Live Well HD, and weather feed, will they have space to have all three and ABC News Now?



IMO no I hear ABC now looks like crapa since they put two HD stations. I would think 1 HD and 3 SD subs would be ok.


BUT if they go with 3 HD's The picture will be really bad.



Where did you read about news now? Got a link? thanks


----------



## mw390

So much CRAP out there. Channel 68 (or is it 66?) 10 CHANNELS? Some of it

is FM radio. WTF?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/16637012
> 
> 
> Now the phantom 2.1 appears to be gone.



It was a roof top view of what?!?! it's unlikely it's going to ever happen again so I hope someone got a screen grab.


----------



## NYCLA*

*Just in case anyone missed this highly annoying and boneheaded move by WNBC-DT:*


"As of June 11, 2009, WNBC began inserting a broadcast flag into their signal that overrides the manual aspect ratio control on digital converter boxes, forcing viewers using 4:3 analog television sets with converter boxes to view certain programs in a 4:3 aspect ratio, and denying viewers the option of viewing these shows in 16:9 letterbox format. Programming affected include WNBC's local news broadcast, Today, NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams and The Tonight Show with Conan O'brien, among others."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNBC#Digital_television 


WNBC is the *ONLY* channel that is doing this.


----------



## reddice

I am able to get channel 7 and 13 as best as I can but I still can't get channel 11.


----------



## nordloewelabs

currently, with my home made loop antenna, i get all UHF channels, but none of the VHF ones.


so here is a question for all those receiving well the high VHF channels (ABC 7.1, CW 11.1, PBS 13.1), which antenna are you using to pull off this miracle?


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16637722
> 
> 
> currently, with my home made loop antenna, i get all UHF channels, but none of the VHF ones.
> 
> 
> so here is a question for all those receiving well the high VHF channels (ABC 7.1, CW 11.1, PBS 13.1), which antenna are you using to pull off this miracle?



Dipole rabbit ears that came with the set!


----------



## reddice

Dipole rabbit ears are so sensitive. If I move them just a bit I can lose the picture completely. With analog I did not have that problem.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/16637661
> 
> 
> So much CRAP out there. Channel 68 (or is it 66?) 10 CHANNELS? Some of it
> 
> is FM radio. WTF?



66 was channel 29 66.1 is an old man talking about Religion 24/7 The subs are religious radio.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16637629
> 
> 
> Where did you read about news now? Got a link? thanks



It looks like I misread it as it seems that this time, channel will try to be sold as a cable channel and not apart of digital subchannel, but here is the link .


BTW: WNYE analog is still going after their scheduled 6 hour window has passed.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16637784
> 
> 
> Dipole rabbit ears are so sensitive. If I move them just a bit I can lose the picture completely. With analog I did not have that problem.




I live closer to the Empire State Building than you, my dipoles are frozen in position (meaning I found the position that works and haven't moved it) and everything comes in crystal clear. Just wish I could get WLIW.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16637722
> 
> 
> currently, with my home made loop antenna, i get all UHF channels, but none of the VHF ones.
> 
> 
> so here is a question for all those receiving well the high VHF channels (ABC 7.1, CW 11.1, PBS 13.1), which antenna are you using to pull off this miracle?



As of today. The terk-55 is getting all the VHF and UHF stations within 15 miles. With a 90 plus signal strength. I will try the C2 on the weekend


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16637784
> 
> 
> Dipole rabbit ears are so sensitive. If I move them just a bit I can lose the picture completely. With analog I did not have that problem.



Others will be saying the same...


I miss WLIW I don't think I can get a reading at all.. the transmitter might be too far or too low powered or both.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16637722
> 
> 
> currently, with my home made loop antenna, i get all UHF channels, but none of the VHF ones.
> 
> 
> so here is a question for all those receiving well the high VHF channels (ABC 7.1, CW 11.1, PBS 13.1), which antenna are you using to pull off this miracle?



For the HDTV, I'm using the MonoPrice Outdoor antenna and for the digitial converter in the back, I'm using RCA ANT1251 indoor antenna .


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16637803
> 
> 
> I live closer to the Empire State Building than you, my dipoles are frozen in position (meaning I found the position that works and haven't moved it) and everything comes in crystal clear. Just wish I could get WLIW.



I don't feel so bad.. now that I can't get WLIW..


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16637722
> 
> 
> currently, with my home made loop antenna, i get all UHF channels, but none of the VHF ones.
> 
> 
> so here is a question for all those receiving well the high VHF channels (ABC 7.1, CW 11.1, PBS 13.1), which antenna are you using to pull off this miracle?



I live 13 miles from ESB. I use a CM4149 directional double bow-tie UHF and get all UHF/VHF except ION.

It cost $11.95 at
http://www.summitsource.com/advanced...m+4149&x=0&y=0


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16637830
> 
> 
> I don't feel so bad.. now that I can't get WLIW..



Aha, well there you go! It's a trade off right? You can get WLIW, and I can't! (I live in Astoria, in Queens).


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

I too can't get WLIW, which is odd because for a few times earlier this week, I was able to pull in. Also, I lost WMBC, which has been a constant battle since getting the monoprice antenna. In for a few days then out and repeat.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bogney Baux* /forum/post/16637293
> 
> 
> They are staying on channels 44 and 38 so what are you waiting for?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16637722
> 
> 
> currently, with my home made loop antenna, i get all UHF channels, but none of the VHF ones.
> 
> 
> so here is a question for all those receiving well the high VHF channels (ABC 7.1, CW 11.1, PBS 13.1), which antenna are you using to pull off this miracle?




Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna + CM7777 pre-amp


----------



## reddice

The biggest problem I have with high VHF is I can get one station strong like channel 7 and then it makes channels 11 and 13 weak. When I make channel 13 stronger it makes channel 7 weak. Channel 11 is very weak. What I don't understand is that they are all broadcasting from the ESB. I should be able to get them all in the same position.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16637806
> 
> 
> As of today. The terk-55 is getting all the VHF and UHF stations within 15 miles. With a 90 plus signal strength. I will try the C2 on the weekend



you're 15 miles from ESB and you get all the channels?!?! Terk TV55 looks like great antenna! i'm perplexed.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16637854
> 
> 
> I too can't get WLIW, which is odd because for a few times earlier this week, I was able to pull in. Also, I lost WMBC, which has been a constant battle since getting the monoprice antenna. In for a few days then out and repeat.



WMBC - Feh!! Most of the stations (in the high UHF) are not of much interest unless you're Spanish speaking. And the English ones are a waste of time


----------



## R.F. Burns

I no longer receive WFME, or WMBC and have yet to receive WNJN. I read that WNJB will move to channel 8 from New Brunswick tomorrow so maybe I will be able to see their signal here. All of the new digital VHF signals are fine here about 25 miles north of Manhattan. I do agree that other than NJN most of what I can't receive isn't worth much to me anyway. Now my TV is filled with Spanish language broadcasting. After the novelty wears off I'll delete them from my TV's.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16637885
> 
> 
> I read that WNJB will move to channel 8 from New Brunswick tomorrow so maybe I will be able to see their signal here.



Where did you read that NJB was moving tomorrow because there was a post earlier in the thread that stated NJB wasn't moving until October?


Also, I wait for WNJU to go digital so I can get their signal, finally.


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bogney Baux* /forum/post/16637293
> 
> 
> They are staying on channels 44 and 38 so what are you waiting for?



We're waiting for 5 and 9 to shut down their analog signals at midnight to see if they broadcast a sign-off like 2 did. I missed 2's sign-off, but I'll be recording 5 and 9.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16637885
> 
> 
> I read that WNJB will move to channel 8 from New Brunswick tomorrow so maybe I will be able to see their signal here.



great news! can you provide a link?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16637968
> 
> 
> We're waiting for 5 and 9 to shut down their analog signals at midnight to see if they broadcast a sign-off like 2 did. I missed 2's sign-off, but I'll be recording 5 and 9.



i recorded NBC signing off at 12:30PM. i can upload the video somewhere if the site doesnt require subscription (i dont have patience for sign-ups)


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16631370
> 
> 
> I wonder if we will get a transmitter room view? but listening to WABC's news cast at 5Pm they hinted at it was just going to be a flash cut.. no special showings or anything like that..



WABC showed a live shot inside the control room and showed the engineer pushing the button. I should say they _indicated_ that that's what they were showing. I suspect it may have been a phony button, since the signal didn't cut out until about 10 seconds after the guy hit the button.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16638080
> 
> 
> WABC showed a live shot inside the control room and showed the engineer pushing the button. I should say they _indicated_ that that's what they were showing. I suspect it may have been a phony button, since the signal didn't cut out until about 10 seconds after the guy hit the button.



I had WABC on OTA and I was all nervous when he pushed the button. As soon as he did the signal on RF 45 went to nothing. I then put it on RF 7 and adjusted it but can't get it as good as it was when it was on RF 45.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16637872
> 
> 
> you're 15 miles from ESB and you get all the channels?!?! Terk TV55 looks like great antenna! i'm perplexed.



No We are 7 miles and get all stations BUT NJ PBS's and wLIW


The max range we get is about 15 miles. 20 miles seems to be Just out of range. And the reason I am trying the clearstream.


The DTVpal changed the stations for her. Even though some were moved to 70's channel above ( DTVPAL glitch) A full scan will fix this and I will do that this weekend.


If you are with in 10 miles of your stations I recommended the Terk -55 If your stations are father I will let you know who the Clearstream works


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16637885
> 
> 
> I no longer receive WFME, or WMBC and have yet to receive WNJN. I read that WNJB will move to channel 8 from New Brunswick tomorrow so maybe I will be able to see their signal here. All of the new digital VHF signals are fine here about 25 miles north of Manhattan. I do agree that other than NJN most of what I can't receive isn't worth much to me anyway. Now my TV is filled with Spanish language broadcasting. After the novelty wears off I'll delete them from my TV's.


*"WNJB will move to channel 8 from New Brunswick"*


Will move to where? NYC?


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16638121
> 
> 
> The DTVpal changed the stations for her. Even though some were moved to 70's channel above ( DTVPAL glitch) A full scan will fix this and I will do that this weekend.



I have DTVPal's. A rescan won't fix it. You have to reset to Factory Defaults.


----------



## SubaruB4

Question I don't know if anyone answered it yet but what is on RF 8? which is 8-1 I checked wikipedia for New York stations and I can't find anything listed for 8-1


the signal is low enough that I can't get a reading for the station ident.


Also I still get break up's on 4-1 but it's not as bad.. if only i could place my antenna at the same level as my apartment atenna about 30 ft higher


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16638147
> 
> *"WNJB will move to channel 8 from New Brunswick"*
> 
> 
> Will move to where? NYC?



4 Times Square. Conde Nas Building. I still don't expect great reception when it does move in October.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16638207
> 
> 
> Question I don't know if anyone answered it yet but what is on RF 8? which is 8-1 I checked wikipedia for New York stations and I can't find anything listed for 8-1



according to TVFool:


WNJB 58.1 is RF-8.


----------



## NYCLA*

WPXN-DT's signal SUCKS since they made the switch. Prior to today, WPXN (ION) came in strong and clear, now it's total crap.


----------



## tahoejoe

Looks like my radio shack U-75R is truly a UHF only antenna. Was hoping it would pick up high VHS, but no go. Reconnected my old combo VHF/UHF on my roof that earlier did not pick up many of the UHF channels. Now it was only not picking up ION. Picked up 13 for the first time ever. Connected both antennas vis a simple splitter and also now pick up ION. Only issue ( around 4:30 pm) was that CBS was coming in on 33.1 and there was a picture of Central Park on 2.1 which then went black.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16638291
> 
> 
> WPXN-DT's signal SUCKS since they made the switch. Prior to today, WPXN (ION) came in strong and clear, now it's total crap.



i used to get it at 70%. now i get it at 90%.

different freq, broadcast from diff locations, received at diff addresses, using diff antennas, yields diff results. only problem in my place is the high VHF channels.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16638080
> 
> 
> WABC showed a live shot inside the control room and showed the engineer pushing the button. I should say they _indicated_ that that's what they were showing. I suspect it may have been a phony button, since the signal didn't cut out until about 10 seconds after the guy hit the button.



I posted the video on youtube with that switch over.. however I had WABC-DT and WABC-Tv running at the same time.. the engineer (they are always on the phone) when he pressed the button the Digital feed went off as soon as he did.. then someone in the background says about 5 seconds later that 7-1 should be up on the new channel and about 3-4 seconds later Channel 7 on analog went out as well.


here is the link to my video.. I added a bunch of tags so it could be found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO2M4x7Rnq8


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16638258
> 
> 
> 4 Times Square. Conde Nas Building. I still don't expect great reception when it does move in October.



He is saying it is moving TOMORROW not October


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16638313
> 
> 
> i used to get it at 70%. now i get it at 90%.
> 
> different freq, broadcast from diff locations, received at diff addresses, using diff antennas, yields diff results. only problem in my place is the high VHF channels.



Where does PXN broadcast from?


----------



## reddice

Channel 7 reception has improved a bit. I am now getting it in the 60's. Could just be the time of day or the weather. I am expecting it might be worse or better at other times of the day.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16638259
> 
> 
> according to TVFool:
> 
> 
> WNJB 58.1 is RF-8.


----------



## SnellKrell

The station is planning to relocate to 4 Times Square, the Conde Nast Building in October!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16638313
> 
> 
> i used to get it at 70%. now i get it at 90%.
> 
> different freq, broadcast from diff locations, received at diff addresses, using diff antennas, yields diff results. only problem in my place is the high VHF channels.



WPXN is a lost cause. I still can't get it. Only peak it at around 15% the same it has always been. The analog channel was not that clear.


----------



## R.F. Burns

I didn't say it was moving yet. What I said was that WNJB will start transmitting on channel 8 from New Brunswick tomorrow. Here's where I found the info.


http://www.njn.net/television/channe...nel58loss.html 



According to the FCC map their coverage should be good enough to cover much of the NY market even from their present location.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16638631
> 
> 
> WPXN is a lost cause. I still can't get it. Only peak it at around 15% the same it has always been. The analog channel was not that clear.



have you tried using a reflector? you can make one usig a cardboard and tinfoil. also, move the antenna to a higher spot. also try putting a circular bundle of cables near the antenna. alternatively, buy a VHF+UHF antenna with amplification. i'll get a Terk HDTVa.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bogney Baux* /forum/post/16637293
> 
> 
> They are staying on channels 44 and 38 so what are you waiting for?



Right, I got confused, I thought they were moving.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16638643
> 
> 
> I didn't say it was moving yet. What I said was that WNJB will start transmitting on channel 8 from New Brunswick tomorrow. Here's where I found the info.
> 
> http://www.njn.net/television/channe...nel58loss.html



maybe what that page means is that tomorrow they will be broadcasting at RF-58, virtual channel 8.1. can someone acquainted with FCC's language clarify this?


regardless of numbering, i'm happy to know their signal will be stronger tomorrow. thanks a lot for the link, mate!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16638643
> 
> 
> I didn't say it was moving yet. What I said was that WNJB will start transmitting on channel 8 from New Brunswick tomorrow. Here's where I found the info.
> 
> 
> http://www.njn.net/television/channe...nel58loss.html
> 
> 
> 
> According to the FCC map their coverage should be good enough to cover much of the NY market even from their present location.



Ok I get it now. Thanks


Another stupid question. What do the Yellow areas mean?


For example by the letters NY the MAp is yellow. What is the meaning?


Also is there a time it will start broadcast on 8?


----------



## mikepier

A couple of weeks ago I posted a pic of my outdoor $4 Radio Shack bowtie. Then there was the question of if it would still work after today with some of the stations going to VHF. Well, happy to report its still working, and now with Ch 13, which I could not get before.


----------



## R.F. Burns

No, look at the power numbers. Their only running 20 KW at a lower elevation but with a much larger coverage area. It's actual RF 8, virtual 58.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16638643
> 
> 
> I didn't say it was moving yet. What I said was that WNJB will start transmitting on channel 8 from New Brunswick tomorrow. Here's where I found the info.
> 
> 
> http://www.njn.net/television/channe...nel58loss.html
> 
> 
> 
> According to the FCC map their coverage should be good enough to cover much of the NY market even from their present location.



Sorry I misunderstood what you meant.. I will check again tomorrow to see how things turn out.


I just turned to WLIW and i see a signal reading but nothing is showing up


however visiting the site this info is still up


"WLIW has contacted the FCC for a power increase but, to date, has not gotten a confirmation. This means that if you are having difficulty receiving WLIW digital now, you will continue to have this problem. WLIW expects an answer by the end of August."


----------



## Skyeclad

Did WPIX transition to 11? I'm getting nothing on channel 11.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16638650
> 
> 
> have you tried using a reflector? you can make one usig a cardboard and tinfoil. also, move the antenna to a higher spot. also try putting a circular bundle of cables near the antenna. alternatively, buy a VHF+UHF antenna with amplification. i'll get a Terk HDTVa.



I just bought the Terk HDTVa from Amazon for $39 with tax. I love the HDTVi but I can see if the amplified version will help on those weaker stations. Just hope it does not overload the strong channels like channel 5 and 47. Don't care one bit about channel 66. Last amplified antenna I had was the Radio Shack UFO type which did not make a bit of difference being amplified. Actually the HDTVi gives me better reception than the Radio Shack one.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/16638911
> 
> 
> Did WPIX transition to 11?.




Yes


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/16638911
> 
> 
> Did WPIX transition to 11? I'm getting nothing on channel 11.



Yes. 7, 11, 13, and 31 all switched their digital signals to their former analog frequencies within a few minutes of 12:30 PM.


----------



## reddice

Watch the video from today's afternoon news here.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6862404 


It shows that people were still unprepared. It also showed them buying converter boxes and cheap indoor antennas and they have no idea the struggle they will have now of trying to pull in RF 7. There will be a lot of calls to the station.


----------



## SnellKrell

Actually, 31 was the first major in the DMA to transition, much earlier than the others.


----------



## SubaruB4

I don't know if anyone saw this site but pretty neat

http://www.fybush.com/sites/2009/site-090130.html 


And I missed the 5Pm news for WABC i was stuck in traffic


----------



## tamahome02000

No 11 or 13 here (mid NJ).


Someone on channel 5 news said to throw away your rabbit ears.


----------



## reddice

After a lot of dipoles movements. I can get channel 7 in the 60's and channel 13 in the high 50's to low 60's. Channel 11 I can't get nothing. Channel 2 I now have no problems getting now which is good. Hopefully the amplified Terk will help on those channels.


Also analog is still on channels 25, 41, 47, 60 and 68. Probably wait until 11:59am before switching them off. I will be in bed by then.


----------



## moonstar

I live in East 70's Manhattan, and I cannot get ABC with an indoor antenna (Terk HDTVa antenna).


Yes, I had to rescan tonight, at least CBS was changed to another frequency.


I just hope I can pick up ABC tomorrow...










Isn't ABC from the Empire State Building? If so, I don't get why I may have to play with the dipoles....










I'm getting CBS, NBC, Fox (ch.5), Ch. 9, Ch. 11, and Ch. 13 all fine ( I am only checking HD channels). But no WABC!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16638693
> 
> 
> maybe what that page means is that tomorrow they will be broadcasting at RF-58, virtual channel 8.1. can someone acquainted with FCC's language clarify this?
> 
> 
> regardless of numbering, i'm happy to know their signal will be stronger tomorrow. thanks a lot for the link, mate!



its not an error. WNJB analog was on 58 and digital has been on 8 all along. as per the DTV transition, there will be no channels above 51. WNJB has petitioned the FCC to move its transmitter from new brunswick to times square.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, WABC-DT, 7 Digital transmits using the Hi-VHF Combiner from the ESB along with

WPIX-DT and WNET-DT.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16639134
> 
> 
> Watch the video from today's afternoon news here.
> http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=6862404
> 
> 
> It shows that people were still unprepared. It also showed them buying converter boxes and cheap indoor antennas and they have no idea the struggle they will have now of trying to pull in RF 7. There will be a lot of calls to the station.



What the heck is a COBY box? Sounds like a cheap box you get if you wait till last minute


----------



## reddice

NJN analog has been off now for a while. Nothing on analog 50 and 58. Still wondering why the other analog channels are still on.


----------



## Skyeclad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16638949
> 
> 
> Yes. 7, 11, 13, and 31 all switched their digital signals to their former analog frequencies within a few minutes of 12:30 PM.



Then are they underpowered or something I used to get them fairly well and I figured that I still would with my CM4228/CM7777 give that it does ok with high VHF. I mean, I'm getting WNET at 60% signal quality but I can't even detect channel 11.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16638748
> 
> 
> "WLIW has contacted the FCC for a power increase but, to date, has not gotten a confirmation. This means that if you are having difficulty receiving WLIW digital now, you will continue to have this problem. WLIW expects an answer by the end of August."



end of August?!?! does it take this long for an answer from the FCC? does anyone know if any other station has asked for increase of signal strength?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16639568
> 
> 
> end of August?!?! does it take this long for an answer from the FCC? does anyone know if any other station has asked for increase of signal strength?



Did you get my PM?


----------



## eclectogeek




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/16639557
> 
> 
> Then are they underpowered or something I used to get them fairly well and I figured that I still would with my CM4228/CM7777 give that it does ok with high VHF. I mean, I'm getting WNET at 60% signal quality but I can't even detect channel 11.



I havea similar setup and nothing at all on 7, 11 or 13. Not sure if they are on the air or not.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eclectogeek* /forum/post/16639581
> 
> 
> I havea similar setup and nothing at all on 7, 11 or 13. Not sure if they are on the air or not.



THEY are ON THE AIR. My aunt is 7 miles away with a terk -55 and gets 90 plus the new VHF stations. Except channel 11 which is 80


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16639312
> 
> 
> Also analog is still on channels 25, 41, 47, 60 and 68. Probably wait until 11:59am before switching them off. I will be in bed by then.



i read somewhere (but i'm not sure) that NYCTV 25.1 would broadcast in HD after transition....


actually -- i just checked..... 25.1 is broadcasting in 1080i right now! this means "Secrets Of New York" in HD!


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16639476
> 
> 
> Yes, WABC-DT, 7 Digital transmits using the Hi-VHF Combiner from the ESB along with WPIX-DT and WNET-DT.



is that the reason why the 3 of them suck right now? someone from Midtown just posted that ABC's reception was impossible even with a Terk HDTVa... (!) can we have any hope that ABC, CW and Thirteen will get better tomorrow??? do they have to request signal upgrade from the FCC?


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16639636
> 
> 
> is that the reason why the 3 of them suck right now? someone from Midtown just posted that ABC's reception was impossible even with a Terk HDTVa... (!) can we have any hope that ABC, CW and Thirteen will get better tomorrow??? do they have to request signal upgrade from the FCC?



this is pathetic


----------



## SemiChemE

Decisions, decisions, decisions...


I'm pleasantly surprised to find that up here in Poughkeepsie I am able to tune in WPIX-11 and WNET-13. The signals are very weak (~20%), but the fact that I get them at all provides some hope that they might be watchable if I moved the antenna outside (currently I have an attic installation). Unfortunately, there's no sign of WABC-7, which is surprising as TVfool indicates it should be about 4db stronger than 11 and 13.


Now, here's my dilemma. Do I keep the VHF antenna pointed at NYC for 7, 11, and 13 (and maybe 58.1) or do I rotate it to Albany for 6, 7, 12, and 13? Finally, why the heck did the FCC allow 7 and 13 in both of these overlapping markets (and to complicate matters 12 maps to digital 13.1)?


----------



## nordloewelabs

 http://img190.imageshack.us/i/nbcsignoff.mp4/


----------



## foxycat

I'm 20 miles north of the ESB in Westchester. I have a rooftop antenna on my apt bldg. 13 was gone for a while, came in on digital13-1 about 10 PM. but it's supposed to be 61 Huh? I have NBC on 4-1, but it was supposed to be 28. Is that because analog TV with conv box keeps the old numbers? They're also both incredibly clear.


I have no CBS yet, don't use WPIX or WWOR.


I think some of them are making adjustments today. Don't panic.


----------



## eclectogeek

Instead of mandating all stations like 7, 11 & 13 on the uhf band with everyone else, the fcc allows these clowns to play on a different band that no one seems to be able to receive and requires 2 different antennas. Pathetic is right.


----------



## icemannyr

I just checked my DTV box and so far there is no flag preventing me from watching The Tonight Show with Conan O'brien in letterboxed 16:9 on my 4:3 TV.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16637684
> 
> *Just in case anyone missed this highly annoying and boneheaded move by WNBC-DT:*
> 
> 
> "As of June 11, 2009, WNBC began inserting a broadcast flag into their signal that overrides the manual aspect ratio control on digital converter boxes, forcing viewers using 4:3 analog television sets with converter boxes to view certain programs in a 4:3 aspect ratio, and denying viewers the option of viewing these shows in 16:9 letterbox format. Programming affected include WNBC's local news broadcast, Today, NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams and The Tonight Show with Conan O'brien, among others."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNBC#Digital_television
> 
> 
> WNBC is the *ONLY* channel that is doing this.


----------



## nordloewelabs

anyone receiving WSAH 43.1? that's the station that has signed with RetroTV.


----------



## SubaruB4

wow 5 and 9 turned off and they all went with no fan fare.. I hope no one was waiting up for it!


----------



## mikepier

WNYW and WWOR quietly went off the air at 11:59. No fanfare or anything, just "sudden death".

I was fortunate to see the "classic" sign-off for WCBS today with the national anthem and all.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16639820
> 
> 
> anyone receiving WSAH 43.1? that's the station that has signed with RetroTV.



I heard they just applied to move to ESB. Might take some time


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eclectogeek* /forum/post/16639756
> 
> 
> Instead of mandating all stations like 7, 11 & 13 on the uhf band with everyone else, the fcc allows these clowns to play on a different band that no one seems to be able to receive and requires 2 different antennas. Pathetic is right.




I get 90% + on all 3 stations you just listed just fine.. they come in better now that they switched to VHF.


----------



## Tresjolie9

Was surprised to see both just switching off, to nothing, no fanfare, no national anthem.


Really wish I could have been home for the CBS sign off, feel bad that I missed the national anthem, and a shot of the classic screen.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/16639814
> 
> 
> I just checked my DTV box and so far there is no flag preventing me from watching The Tonight Show with Conan O'brien in letterboxed 16:9 on my 4:3 TV.



that's what my Tonight Show looks like.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16639862
> 
> 
> I get 90% + on all 3 stations you just listed just fine.. they come in better now that they switched to VHF.



Curious what Antenna you using? My aunt get all in very strong also with a Terk 55


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16639845
> 
> 
> WNYW and WWOR quietly went off the air at 11:59. No fanfare or anything, just "sudden death".
> 
> I was fortunate to see the "classic" sign-off for WCBS today with the national anthem and all.



yes I posted the same thing about no fanfare.. matter of fact I switched to WWOR and as soon as I pressed record the channel went out on me.. looks like it was a programmed shutdown...


lets hope someone was good enough to get the WCBS shutdown.


----------



## Tresjolie9

If enough people enquirer, do you think WCBS would put it up online for fans to see?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16639885
> 
> 
> Curious what Antenna you using? My aunt get all in very strong also with a Terk 55



it's a rooftop mounted on the 3rd floor of my apartment. Way better then trying with my silver sensor which is outside my window 11 Ft off the ground... I will say however It did a good job for being outside since last winter.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16639909
> 
> 
> it's a rooftop mounted on the 3rd floor of my apartment. Way better then trying with my silver sensor which is outside my window 11 Ft off the ground... I will say however It did a good job for being outside since last winter.



Oh I see, My Aunts Apartment house Stopped the RooF Antenna many years ago


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tresjolie9* /forum/post/16639904
> 
> 
> If enough people enquirer, do you think WCBS would put it up online for fans to see?



I would hope so... I might email them later today... I was not about to get a ticket trying to get home... besides where I was going had no OTA atenna anyways..


only time we will see something like this again is in another 50+ years when digital OTA goes away for something better...


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16639922
> 
> 
> Oh I see, My Aunts Apartment house Stopped the RooF Antenna many years ago



I only found out it worked last year... I been here for 3 years and 2 years ago they ordered everyone to take down the sat dishes from the outdoor window.. I guess they got a contract from crapvision...


----------



## Tresjolie9




> Quote:
> I would hope so... I might email them later today... I was not about to get a ticket trying to get home... besides where I was going had no OTA atenna anyways..
> 
> 
> only time we will see something like this again is in another 50+ years when digital OTA goes away for something better...



Or when the cable and phone companies get their way, and get rid of over the air TV completely


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16639936
> 
> 
> I only found out it worked last year... I been here for 3 years and 2 years ago they ordered everyone to take down the sat dishes from the outdoor window.. I guess they got a contract from crapvision...



Same thing with my Aunts place.


----------



## SubaruB4

having a hard time getting WWOR now that they switched to RF 38. looks like im getting some serious multipath


same for WNBC.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tresjolie9* /forum/post/16639947
> 
> 
> Or when the cable and phone companies get their way, and get rid of over the air TV completely



I doubt the FCC would ever allow that..


I'm not going to pay for tv in order to find out some breaking event.. something like a 9/11 event or so..



that would never do good at all.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

Of course it would still be difficult to get WNJU. But it seems I am getting WLIW now, at least some of frames.


----------



## mikepier

Wow, I just did a re-scan after midnight, and I can now get NJN 50.1. I could never get that before. So overall I still have the channels I had before plus 13.1 and 50.1.

The only thing I notice after the cutover today is that I can't get is WLNY Long Island 55. I could get it before, but not now.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16639936
> 
> 
> I been here for 3 years and 2 years ago they ordered everyone to take down the sat dishes from the outdoor window.. I guess they got a contract from crapvision...



such "order" is now illegal if the window faces the street. put the antennas back. if window faces courtyard, they can prohibit anything hanging.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16639984
> 
> 
> Of course it would still be difficult to get WNJU. But it seems I am getting WLIW now, at least some of frames.



I can get a few frames out of WLIW as well.. but I don't know what you mean by WNJU.. i'm talking about WNBC right now.. I have no signal for the main channel and it's substations.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16639987
> 
> 
> such "order" is now illegal if the window faces the street. put the antennas back. if window faces courtyard, they can prohibit anything hanging.




my window faces the back of the apartment which is nothing but the woods.. i don't think the other 3 dish owners were happy about telling them to take down and get crapvision service...


No one can come behind here anyways since you need to unlock a fence... So I would not doubt that it's illegal at all.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16640021
> 
> 
> No one can come behind here anyways since you need to unlock a fence... So I would not doubt that it's illegal at all.


 http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...hl_pgD98E0NQO6


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/16639814
> 
> 
> I just checked my DTV box and so far there is no flag preventing me from watching The Tonight Show with Conan O'brien in letterboxed 16:9 on my 4:3 TV.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16639879
> 
> 
> that's what my Tonight Show looks like.



Yes it has been discovered that the flag in question only affects certain converter boxes and is completely done on purpose. It's total ********. See this thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1148095 


And for the complete description of the discrimination being carried out by the NAB in collusion with certain networks and coverter box makers see here:
http://www.nab.org/AM/Template.cfm?S...entDisplay.cfm


----------



## R.F. Burns

To the best of my knowledge when it comes to hanging satellite TV antennas your apartment complex can not prevent that. Check out this site for further info


http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/New.../nrcb8023.html


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16639608
> 
> 
> actually -- i just checked..... 25.1 is broadcasting in 1080i right now! this means "Secrets Of New York" in HD!



Still showing 480i here. If it was in HD, must've been for a very short time.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16639974
> 
> 
> having a hard time getting WWOR now that they switched to RF 38. looks like im getting some serious multipath



Nothing switched. They've always been on RF 38.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxycat* /forum/post/16639755
> 
> 
> 
> I have no CBS yet, don't use WPIX or WWOR.
> 
> 
> I think some of them are making adjustments today. Don't panic.



Hope you are right, and that's what I was thinking as well. I'm in 3 miles of the ESB. What else can explain why my Terk HDTVa isn't picking up ABC? LOL!


----------



## Bix

My Tivax box is showing WFUT with its RF channel number of 30, but the rest of the PSIP info is correct. Is this happening to anyone else?


Getting a strong signal from WLNY with the move to RF 47, which is pretty amazing since it was pretty impossible to get in OTA for years and years.


Still no WPXN for me for whatever reason.


----------



## StudioTech

Getting WNET consistently now in Middlesex County with the move to VHF. I tried ressurrecting the Central Jersey thread earlier but everyone living in these parts seemed to migrate here first.


Oh and to the folks running WNET, the new logo is ugly and way too big.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Oh and to the folks running WNET, the new logo is ugly and way too big."


Couldn't agree more.


The old was had a classical look about it and wasn't as intrusive.


Bring back Baker!


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16639568
> 
> 
> end of August?!?! does it take this long for an answer from the FCC? does anyone know if any other station has asked for increase of signal strength?



Many (but not all) of the high-VHF stations realized early-on that they underestimated their RF power requirements and applied for higher limits. Many of those applications are still pending.


I'll bet that office in the FCC has been swamped since the first wave of the transition occurred in Feb.


----------



## SubaruB4

Getting WLNY as well but the signal level is bouncing all around.. I have to manual add the channel.


my signal might be coming from the local repeater site in stamford, CT


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/16640343
> 
> 
> Hope you are right, and that's what I was thinking as well. I'm in 3 miles of the ESB. What else can explain why my Terk HDTVa isn't picking up ABC? LOL!



If you have FM transmitters nearby on frequencies 88.5-90 MHz, try FM reject filter inserted before any amp/tuner. Their 2nd order FM distortion fall into Hi-V channel 7. The old analog sets had such filter but the new converter boxes do not.


----------



## johnosolis

The prize for best transition should probably go to Univision (41.1) that had a full 1/2 hour discussion before midnight. They showed technicians going into old people's disgusting apartments to install converter boxes on their 80s-era TVs. One older couple was even lying in bed (fat wife in nightgown) watching a technician install a box. Their lovely decor included a ton of plastic religious kitsch and pictures cut from magazines taped directly onto the walls.


There were no TVs with clicky dials, but there was one with a column of pushbuttons, one button for each channel, each with a little window showing the channel number that lit up when it was selected.


They presented a Salvadoran guy from "Nassau County" that won the contest to press a button (that did nothing, of course) and interviews with engineers from inside the ESB facilities as well as the observation deck. They showed the digital equipment and a guy pressing buttons on the analog equipment to "get it ready to shut down".


Just before midnight, they went live to Times Square where they claimed people from all over were gathering to be part of this historic event. They even had a new-years-eve-like countdown on the Times Square jumbotron which ended with a message saying "Welcome to the New Digital Era" (in Spanish). A few seconds later, the screen went to snow and white noise.


Switching to the digital channel, I saw they continued on talking about the transition and (best part of the show) they interviewed a lady in Texas about how embarrassed and ashamed she was that she didn't pay any attention to all of the warnings and now her TV didn't get any channels. They showed her TV in the background the whole time blasting "snow" as the reporter asked probing follow-up questions about just how badly she felt. The interviewer then handed the lady a surpise: a brand new converter box! She was extremely grateful (cheap bastards should have given her a new HDTV) and said things like "Oh, thank god, now I can watch the news and soap operas."


It was late and I had to go to bed before the lengthy festivities were over.


----------



## rperlberg

Location: Brooklyn, NY 11236


Winegard MS-2002 Amplified Omnidirectional roof antenna


Dish Network TR-40 CECB


*Channel**Channel**Signal Strength* *Number**Name (PSIP)**6/11**6/13*2.1WCBS-HD95853.1DTV0N/A4.1WNBC-DT71645.1WNYW-DT90907.1WABC-HD85969.1WWOR-DT788011.1PIX 11788513.1WNET-HD618125.1WNYE1909331.1ION747434.1DTV818339.1DTV0N/A41.1WXTV-DT766847.1WNJU-DT636868.1WFUT-DT8593

I'm having some strange problems with 4.1. On one branch of my network, I have 5 DVD recorders hooked up as a daisy chain. The 2 machines at the head of the chain (closest to the antenna, and therefore should be getting the strongest signal) are not getting 4.1, but the rest of the machines are. It's the opposite for 9.1. Only the machine at the end of the chain can't get 9.1.


The set in the kitchen is the furthest from the antenna in terms of cable length and this has always caused reception problems, but now it's showing higher signal levels than the sets closer to the antenna! This isn't making any sense!


----------



## SubaruB4

so doing a full manual scan these are the stations I get a signal reading from but not enough to show a video or it breaks up..


WXTV

WNJU-DT

6-1 (have no clue what that is)

WNJB

WEDH-TV (seems to be a Connecticut station)

WFTY-DT.. I cant tell if WFTY-DT is a backup of another station because they both had the same infomercial on about selling cars.


all the other major channels I can get.


Oh I just thought about it.. 6-1 I think is Pulse 87.. is anyone closer able to get it?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/16641017
> 
> 
> Switching to the digital channel, I saw they continued on talking about the transition and (best part of the show) they interviewed a lady in Texas about how embarrassed and ashamed she was that she didn't pay any attention to all of the warnings and now her TV didn't get any channels. They showed her TV in the background the whole time blasting "snow" as the reporter asked probing follow-up questions about just how badly she felt. The interviewer then handed the lady a surpise: a brand new converter box! She was extremely grateful (cheap bastards should have given her a new HDTV) and said things like "Oh, thank god, now I can watch the news and soap operas."



See this is what I was talking about here.. They have that gut feeling it's not going to effect them So they don't take action until it finally goes off.


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16639980
> 
> 
> I doubt the FCC would ever allow that..
> 
> 
> I'm not going to pay for tv in order to find out some breaking event.. something like a 9/11 event or so..
> 
> 
> 
> that would never do good at all.



Ironically, you could not have seen coverage of 9/11 OTA since it knocked out the transmitters atop the WTC.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16641023
> 
> 
> Location: Brooklyn, NY 11236
> 
> 
> Winegard MS-2002 Amplified Omnidirectional roof antenna
> 
> 
> Dish Network TR-40 CECB
> 
> 
> *Channel**Channel**Signal Strength* *Number**Name (PSIP)**6/11**6/13*2.1WCBS-HD95853.1DTV0N/A4.1WNBC-DT71645.1WNYW-DT90907.1WABC-HD85969.1WWOR-DT788011.1PIX 11788513.1WNET-HD618125.1WNYE1909331.1ION747434.1DTV818339.1DTV0N/A41.1WXTV-DT766847.1WNJU-DT636868.1WFUT-DT8593
> 
> I'm having some strange problems with 4.1. On one branch of my network, I have 5 DVD recorders hooked up as a daisy chain. The 2 machines at the head of the chain (closest to the antenna, and therefore should be getting the strongest signal) are not getting 4.1, but the rest of the machines are. It's the opposite for 9.1. Only the machine at the end of the chain can't get 9.1.
> 
> 
> The set in the kitchen is the furthest from the antenna in terms of cable length and this has always caused reception problems, but now it's showing higher signal levels than the sets closer to the antenna! This isn't making any sense!



I can no longer get WNYE1.. matter of fact I used to get it good enough to watch the traffic and whenever Bloomberg spoke but as the months got closer the signal faded to nothing. nothing has changed on my end


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16641046
> 
> 
> Ironically, you could not have seen coverage of 9/11 OTA since it knocked out the transmitters atop the WTC.



I was watching WPIX 11's video of that last night since on wiki they said the microwave feed was knocked out but it did not seem to freeze up when I watched it on youtube.


Whenever the new WTC site is completed and the antennas are ontop I wonder how much better the signals would be.. until then it's going to be hard to figure out at least where I live.


----------



## puzzl

Anyone else here still seeing 3 or 4 channels in analog in the NYC area, including CBS and NBC? What's the deal? Count me disappointed!


----------



## SnellKrell

Both WCBS and WNBC are "Nightlight" stations per an arrangement with the FCC.


WNBC for approximately 2 weeks and WCBS for about a month will continue on the air to provide transition information along with any emergency announcements.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16640889
> 
> 
> If you have FM transmitters nearby on frequencies 88.5-90 MHz, try FM reject filter inserted before any amp/tuner. Their 2nd order FM distortion fall into Hi-V channel 7. The old analog sets had such filter but the new converter boxes do not.



Hm... I have no idea but I bet some radio stations are in midtown, north to the ESB but south to me.


BTW, I am using my Terk HDTVa antenna with a computer TV tuner, and here is some information for channels I got from an application that allows me to watch TV on my computer. I wonder if this is of any help to people who cannot get channels I am able to get.


Also i cannot get Channel 7 (WABC) via automatic scan. Does anybody have idea what FREQUENCY they are using now and their TRANSPORT STREAM ID? I would like to try adding those coordinates? for the channel manutally to see if I can tune in.


Lastly, in the below screen-capture, Channel 11 (WPIX) was picked up after a scan but I CANNOT tune in well. I get green bars in the middle of the screen and the picture eventually freezes. Any indicative of what my issue may be? FM stations? or something else?


Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.















Edit,


Now I don't get the green bars on Channel 11 / WPIX. But I'm getting bad pixellation. like this.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/16642179
> 
> 
> Hm... I have no idea but I bet some radio stations are in midtown, north to the ESB but south to me.
> 
> 
> BTW, I am using my Terk HDTVa antenna with a computer TV tuner, and here is some information for channels I got from an application that allows me to watch TV on my computer. I wonder if this is of any help to people who cannot get channels I am able to get.
> 
> 
> Also i cannot get Channel 7 (WABC) via automatic scan. Does anybody have idea what FREQUENCY they are using now and their TRANSPORT STREAM ID? I would like to try adding those coordinates? for the channel manutally to see if I can tune in.
> 
> 
> Lastly, in the below screen-capture, Channel 11 (WPIX) was picked up after a scan but I CANNOT tune in well. I get green bars in the middle of the screen and the picture eventually freezes. Any indicative of what my issue may be? FM stations? or something else?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.



If you have unreliable or no reception on ch 7,11 & 13 you must raise the signal to noise ratio (SNR). You most likely lost SNR margin due to (a) improper impedance match between the source and tuner and/or (b) FM 2nd order distortion. The insidious nature of these two is that they're hard to detect and that just the lowering the SNR margin, not necessarily killing the channel, is enough to make these channels freeze and pixellate when you walk around.


On Item (a) above: The mismatch raises the factory specified noise figure and that reduces the sensitivity of the tuner. Depending on the mismatch, the noise figure could become 10-20dB higher than that specified. A 10dB rise in NF is akin to lowering the transmitter power by 10dB. My advice is to avoid at all cost antennas with amplifiers.

Try passive outdoor antenna first. If it works, try the passive indoor UHF antenna I recommended in #8997. It's only $12. Even though it's a UHF antenna, if you're within 15 miles of ESB it may do.


Good luck.


----------



## moonstar

Wow thanks. I have very lil understanding of this subject, but I think my antenna has an amp. It may be adjustable. So, that's what I should perhaps play with, maybe I should turn it off and try another scan! Thanks. I'll report when I finish!


*** I will attempt antoher scan tomorrow. It seems to me like stations are adjusting signals. Right now, I don't get green bars OR pixellation on Channel 11. BTW, those issues I had a fwe hours ago were not due to a helicoptor in the sky as I also had CBS in picture in picture from the same antenna and it was perfectly fine. If I still cannot pick up ABC tonight or tomorrow, I'll try with the amp off. Thanks for your help! xoxo ***


----------



## SubaruB4

man still not happy with WNYW-DT and WWOR-DT both i can't get (was fine before the switch.. now both are breaking up and the signal level went from the high 80's to low 50's..


Looks like no watching House for me tonight...


----------



## DTVintermods

Moonstar: I think if you turn the amp off you'll lose the passive antenna as well because it is connected through the active electronic circuit to the tuner


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16642842
> 
> 
> Moonstar: I think if you turn the amp off you'll lose the passive antenna as well because it is connected through the active electronic circuit to the tuner



:s I just looked at the amp, and I can only turn on or offf. I think youa re right! When I first got the antenna, I think I could get very few channels or none without the amp on. ...







maybe i need to buy the new antenna? Oh well, I'll wait till tomorrow to see... Oos! WPIX is pixellating again!!!


----------



## SubaruB4

lol I like how cablevision is still showing that june 12th ad tv's like this wont work... lmao


----------



## tahoejoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16642952
> 
> 
> lol I like how cablevision is still showing that june 12th ad tv's like this wont work... lmao



What's even better is that they advertise their "low cost program," but I bet if you call they don't bother to tell you about the basic broadcast option that only costs about $11 in NJ. I've heard many stories about reps denying it even exists when questioned directly about it.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16642952
> 
> 
> lol I like how cablevision is still showing that june 12th ad tv's like this wont work... lmao



lmao! that's smart I guess! but is their target still getting television to see their ads? LOL!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16641046
> 
> 
> Ironically, you could not have seen coverage of 9/11 OTA since it knocked out the transmitters atop the WTC.



You would've been able to watch on WCBS. They were one of the few TV stations that stayed on the ESB (or at least had a backup transmitter on there)




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16641088
> 
> 
> Whenever the new WTC site is completed and the antennas are ontop I wonder how much better the signals would be.. until then it's going to be hard to figure out at least where I live.



From what I read, most stations have decided not to move back to the site. One of the reasons given is that there won't be any issues with mulipath like there were when the original towers went up in the 70s.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bix* /forum/post/16640370
> 
> 
> My Tivax box is showing WFUT with its RF channel number of 30, but the rest of the PSIP info is correct. Is this happening to anyone else?
> 
> 
> Getting a strong signal from WLNY with the move to RF 47, which is pretty amazing since it was pretty impossible to get in OTA for years and years.
> 
> 
> Still no WPXN for me for whatever reason.



The Manual scan read out indicates that 68-1.2 WFUT-DT has been deleted/relocated by Full or Add Scan to ch.30 scale.

ION 31-1.2.3.4.has been forced to relocate from ch.30 to previous analog now Digital spot on -31

Ch.11 WPIX has relocated from ch33 to previous analog now digital to the

same old spot on ch11

Ch.2 WCBS-HD was removed from ch56 placed to ch33 location

CH.13WNET-HD was removed from ch61 and placed to previous analog

position on ch.13.

Ch. 7WABC was removed from ch45 placed to old analog nest on ch7 now Digital.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *puzzl* /forum/post/16641872
> 
> 
> Anyone else here still seeing 3 or 4 channels in analog in the NYC area, including CBS and NBC? What's the deal? Count me disappointed!



The ch.2wCBS ,ch.4wNBC run only INFO for DTV.

Ch.17 korean christian, ch26 (wNYZ 6-1or 1-1 digital) ch35 noise of 26

ch.46 Cornerstone, ch60 - all filled and covered with rain/snow on Analog.

That is why LP's stations had to go Digital, to be competitive you must

have good neighbors


----------



## SubaruB4

i have good news to report!


I can now get 25.1 25.2 with over a 60% signal.. big improvement..


Also I can now get WWOR and WNYW they will still break up but when the signal locks on it's 75 %


I had to point the silver sensor up outside since elevation is not on my side..


It also handled the outdoors pretty good for being outside since November of last year.


With the new pitch upwards not sure how it will do with wind gusts.. I know from before it held in 25-35 gusts with no issues.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/16643306
> 
> 
> The ch.2wCBS ,ch.4wNBC run only INFO for DTV.
> 
> Ch.17 korean christian, ch26 (wNYZ 6-1or 1-1 digital) ch35 noise of 26
> 
> ch.46 Cornerstone, ch60 - all filled and covered with rain/snow on Analog.
> 
> That is why LP's stations had to go Digital, to be competitive you must
> 
> have good neighbors



last night for giggles I checked out each Low power station and anything else I could find that was not in my market only thing I get a reading from is Pulse 87 which is a radio station in a way.. but they are on digital and analog I could not get any stations like WMBC which I was hoping I would see a reading on the signal meter but nothing.


----------



## Constable Odo

Queens, NY 11412, DTV Pal+ CECB (F106 firmware), 40 ft. high approx. slightly modified 15 year-old, directional Radio Shack VU-90 XR ($65) VHF/UHF roof antenna with a 15 db amplifier, pointed a few degrees north of Empire State Building. I used Google Earth to draw a line from my house to the Empire State Building, but I could have used this site also for aiming:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ 

I know there are other similar terrain maps for directional pointing and signal range.


For Antenna point setup: Pal+ tuned to Channel 33, 587000 frequency with a signal strength reading of 94 to 98.


Scanned 54 Channels post-transition up from 42 pre-transition. There are some duplicate call signs (WWOR) and there were some Spanish stations added post-transition. A couple of those WNYN channels are running duplicate programming.


Channel Call Sign Signal Strength


002-01 WCBS-HD 98

004-01 WNBC-DT 90

004-02 WNBC4.2 90

004-04 WNBC4.4 90

005-01 WNYW-DT 95

005-02 WWOR-DT 98

007-01 WABC-HD 93

007-02 LivWell 93

007-03 WEATHER 95

009-01 WWOR-DT 86

009-02 WNYW-DT 85

011-01 PIX11 98

011-02 LATV 96

013-01 WNET-HD 90

013-02 Kids 90

013-03 V-ME 88

021-01 WLIW-SD 62

021-02 CREATE 62

021-03 WORLD 61

025-01 WNYE1 98

025-02 WNYE2 98

031-01 ION 63

031-02 qubo 66

031-03 IONLife 68

031-04 Worship 66

034-01 DTV 88

039-01 WNYN-1 94

039-02 WNYN-2 94

039-03 WNYN-3 94

039-04 WNYN-4 94

039-05 WNYN-5 94

041-01 WXTV-DT 90

041-02 WFUT-DT 92

047-01 WNJU-DT 86

050-01 NJN-1 63

050-02 NJN-2 63

050-03 NJN-AV 61

063-01 WMBC-DT 74

063-02 Korean 74

063-03 MBC 74

063-04 MHTV 74

063-05 KBS 74

066-01 WFME-DT 66

066-02 WFME-FM 66 Audio Only

066-03 FR WEST 66 Audio Only

066-04 KEAR-FM 66 Audio Only

066-05 F.L.#1 66 Audio Only

066-06 F.L.#2 66 Audio Only

066-07 67SUB 66 Audio Only

066-08 92SUB 66 Audio Only

066-09 NOAA 66 Audio Only

066-10 FUTURE 66 Blank, No Audio

068-01 WFUT-DT 95

068-02 WXTV-DT 95

(sorry, but my tabbed columns wouldn't hold for some reason)


There you have it. I don't have any close obstacles in the way of my antenna and it is probably above all the rooftops in my residential area. I can't see the Empire State Building from where I live near JFK airport even when I stand on my roof. My antenna is mounted on a 15 foot mast which is tilted up a couple of degrees. Maybe the antenna has line of sight, but I can't tell that one way or another. I had done my homework months in advance and readjusted my antenna when the weather warmed up a bit.


I aimed my antenna slightly north of the Empire State Building to get better signal strength for the Channel 63 transmitter in New Jersey which is more distant than the Empire State Building.


I figure this info might help people that are claiming they can't get digital signals in Queens or something. This digital blows analog away. My signals are basically rock solid with no macro-blocking (pixel breakup) even during the recent thunderstorms. Channel 21 is about the weakest because the transmitter is somewhere east of me. If I wanted to I could just purchase a signal joiner to another UHF antenna I have on my roof and point that antenna east or use an antenna rotator. Whatever. I can also get a couple of stations from Connecticut if I point my antenna north in that direction, but there's nothing coming from there I want.


I use TimeWarner Cable so I don't really need this setup, but I wanted to see what was possible OTA. It ain't bad at all.










Even if people only get a portion of the channels I get, it should be a step up from the analog station count.


Late addition: I checked my Channel 21 stations later in the evening and they were appearing and disappearing, so the signal is definitely borderline.

_________________________

For those that are interested in the TVGOS feature of the Pal+. It sucked. My Panny DMR-E85H got passed about 10 channels and saw no subchannels at all. I'm only saying this from a quick check since I didn't look at the channel editor to see if channels didn't get turned on. I'll say one thing. The Panny acquired the clock time and downloaded a short info listing in less than six hours (12:30 AM to 7:00 AM) which is less than half the total time it used to take. It used to take two nights before the change. Maybe it was just a fluke. Enough said about that.


----------



## Tresjolie9

Queens/LI boarder, did a scan of what I could get on my HDTV through the rooftop antenna earlier today


Air 2: WCBS Analog Nightlight

DTV: 2.1 WCBS 2 Digital

Air 4: WNBC Nightlight

DTV AIR 4.1: NBC

DTV AIR 4.2: NBC Nonstop

DTV AIR 4:2: Universal NBC US

Air 5: Blank

DTV AIR 5.1: WNYW DT

DTV AIR 5.2: WWOR DT

DTV AIR 7.1: WABC DT

DTV AIR 7.1 Liv Well HD

DTV AIR 7.1 Weather

Air 9 Blank

DTV AIR 9.1 WWOR DT

DTV AIR 9.2 WNYW DT

DTV AIR 11.1 PIX DT

DTV AIR 11.2 LATN

DTV AIR 13.1 WNET

DTV AIR 13.2 WNET Kids

DTV AIR 13.1 V ME

Air 25 Blank

Air 21.1 WNYE just audio, no video

Air 26 something strange in snowy analog, with a bunch of kids. Is this supposed to be there?

DTV Air 31: ION

DTV Air 31.2 QUBO

DTV AIR 31.3 ION Life

DTV AIR 3.4 Worship for Kids

AIR 32: Something programmed by kids in snowy analog same as on AIR 26? Does anyone have any idea if this is something legal?

DTV Air 34.1 Infomercial in spanish, no station ID

Air 35: Once again strange programming that looks like it it is done by local young people. Got a "station ID" and figured out by google what it is http://vice.typepad.com/vice_magazin...rk---th-4.html 

DTV Air 31.1 WNYN 1

DTV AIR: WNYN 2

DTV AIR: WNYN 3

DTV AIR WNYN 4

DTV AIR WNYN 5 just audio

DTV AIR 41.1 WXTV

DTV AIR 41.2 WFUT DT

Air 46: Prayer

Air 47.1 WNJU DT

DTV Air 50.1 : NJN 1

DTV AIR 50.1: NJN 2

DTV Air 50.2 NJN AV

Air 60: HSN

DTV AIR 66.1 WFME DT

DTV AIR 66.2 WFME FM

DTV AIR 66.3 FR West

DTV AIR 66.4 KEAR FM

DTV AIR 66.5 F.L #1

DTV AIR 66.1 F.L #2

DTV AIR 67 SUB

DTV AIR 66.8 92 SUB

DTV AIR 66.9 NOAA weather radio

DTV AIR 66.10 FUTURE, but nothing...

AIR 68 Blank:

DTV Air 68.1 WFUT DT: No signal

DTV Air 68.1 WFUT DT 2 No signal


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16644196
> 
> 
> Queens, NY 11412, DTV Pal+ CECB (F106 firmware), 40 ft. high approx. slightly modified 15 year-old, directional Radio Shack ($65) VHF/UHF roof antenna with a 15 db amplifier, pointed a few degrees north of Empire State Building. I used Google Earth to draw a line from my house to the Empire State Building, but I could have used this site also for aiming:
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/
> 
> I know there are other similar terrain maps for directional pointing and signal range.
> 
> 
> For Antenna point setup: Pal+ tuned to Channel 33, 587000 frequency with a signal strength reading of 94 to 98.
> 
> 
> Scanned 54 Channels post-transition up from 42 pre-transition. There are some duplicate call signs (WWOR) and there were some Spanish stations added post-transition. A couple of those WNYN channels are running duplicate programming.
> 
> 
> *Channel*Call SignSignal Strength002-01 004-01 004-01 004-04 005-01 005-02 007-01 007-02 007-03 009-01 009-02 011-01 011-02 013-01 013-02 013-03 021-01 021-02 021-03 025-01 025-02 031-01 031-02 031-03 031-04 034-01 039-01 039-02 039-03 039-04 039-05 041-01 041-02 047-01 050-01 050-02 050-03 063-01 063-02 063-03 063-04 063-05 066-01 066-02 066-03 066-04 066-05 066-06 066-07 066-08 066-09 066-10 068-01 068-02 
> (sorry, but my tabbed columns wouldn't hold for some reason)
> 
> 
> There you have it. I don't have any close obstacles in the way of my antenna and it is probably above all the rooftops in my residential area. I can't see the Empire State Building from where I live near JFK airport even when I stand on my roof. My antenna is mounted on a 15 foot mast which is tilted up a couple of degrees. Maybe the antenna has line of sight, but I can't tell that one way or another. I had done my homework months in advance and readjusted my antenna when the weather warmed up a bit.
> 
> 
> I aimed my antenna slightly north of the Empire State Building to get better signal strength for the Channel 63 transmitter in New Jersey which is more distant than the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> I figure this info might help people that are claiming they can't get digital signals in Queens or something. This digital blows analog away. My signals are basically rock solid with no macro-blocking (pixel breakup) even during the recent thunderstorms. Channel 21 is about the weakest because the transmitter is somewhere east of me. If I wanted to I could just purchase a signal joiner to another UHF antenna I have on my roof and point that antenna east or use an antenna rotator. Whatever. I can also get a couple of stations from Connecticut if I point my antenna north in that direction, but there's nothing coming from there I want.
> 
> 
> I use TimeWarner Cable so I don't really need this setup, but I wanted to see what was possible OTA. It ain't bad at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if people only get a portion of the channels I get, it should be a step up from the analog station count.
> 
> _________________________
> 
> For those that are interested in the TVGOS feature of the Pal+. It sucked. My Panny DMR-E85H got passed about 10 channels and saw no subchannels at all. I'm only saying this from a quick check since I didn't look at the channel editor to see if channels didn't get turned on. I'll say one thing. The Panny acquired the clock time and downloaded a short info listing in less than six hours (12:30 AM to 7:00 AM) which is less than half the total time it used to take. It used to take two nights before the change. Maybe it was just a fluke. Enough said about that.



lets see if it works now..


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16637667
> 
> 
> It was a roof top view of what?!?! it's unlikely it's going to ever happen again so I hope someone got a screen grab.



It looked like central park.


----------



## SubaruB4

Ah I see..


glad I can get WNYE now with no issues the main channel has some pretty good shows on the main channel that I never knew they had.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/16644866
> 
> 
> It looked like central park.



Yeah in fact I thought I saw some people sunbathing on top one of the buildings.


----------



## Constable Odo

Thanks, SubaruB4 for doing it right for me. You'll have to teach me how to set those columns in this forum. I pasted my data from a tabbed text file. I was gonna redo it in Excel or Word, but figured, what's the point since the data is correct.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16645404
> 
> 
> Thanks, SubaruB4 for doing it right for me. You'll have to teach me how to set those columns in this forum. I pasted my data from a tabbed text file. I was gonna redo it in Excel or Word, but figured, what's the point since the data is correct.



seeem like the issue was that you needed to add the brackets for the table which would be


----------



## Constable Odo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tresjolie9* /forum/post/16644240
> 
> 
> Queens/LI boarder, did a scan of what I could get on my HDTV through the rooftop antenna earlier today
> 
> 
> Air 26 something strange in snowy analog, with a bunch of kids. Is this supposed to be there?
> 
> 
> AIR 32: Something programmed by kids in snowy analog same as on AIR 26? Does anyone have any idea if this is something legal?
> 
> DTV Air 34.1 Infomercial in spanish, no station ID



When I checked Channel 34 at 10 PM on Saturday it was showing sports in Spanish and it had a logo of a ball and CV. Maybe it's a leased-time sort of station. I couldn't find Channels 26 or 32 even with a rescan.


----------



## Trip in VA

34 is owned by CaribeVision, a Spanish-language TV network. They're on full-powered stations in Puerto Rico, but on a couple of LP stations in the US.


- Trip


----------



## Tresjolie9




> Quote:
> When I checked Channel 34 at 10 PM on Saturday it was showing sports in Spanish and it had a logo of a ball and CV. Maybe it's a leased-time sort of station. I couldn't find Channels 26 or 32 even with a rescan.




Channels 26, and 32 are still analog, perhaps that is why you are not getting them on the digital tuner.


I thing it may still be a remnant of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WXNY-LP


----------



## Constable Odo

I got a kick out of some of the people who were interviewed on TV who said, "Why didn't they let us know ahead of time that they were changing over to digital." (Face-palm)


I swear that I absolutely got sick of seeing scrolling messages on TV stations saying that there was going to be an analog to digital changeover. It's possible that maybe these people couldn't read or the print was too small to see. I certainly didn't know anyone who didn't know about the transition taking place.


@Tresjolie9

Well, if Channels 26 and 32 are still analog, then I probably don't want to see them.










Somebody mentioned that WPXN was missing. I think I might have seen that some time ago, but I thought it was taken off the air. No matter, I never watched it, anyway. (never mind, when I checked Tresjolie9's wikipedia reference I see that it's Channels 31.01, 31.02, 31.03)


----------



## StudioTech

You just knew that they were gonna find people you had no clue.


----------



## starry521

Any advices on getting an antenna, I live about 16 miles from the city in jersey.

I just brought a RadioShack antenna, Model: 15-1868, Catalog #: 15-1868 w/ UHF & VHF and the signal peaks at 40, I can get most of the main network channels although I lose signal very often but i can't get WABC or WPIX at all









I want to get another indoor one and return the radioshack one. THANKS


----------



## foxycat

Is anyone else out there in *Westchester County*? I have an apt house rooftop antenna, which of course I can't adjust, nor will the management, since I'm the only one in the bldg on OTA. .


13 (WNET) and 7 (ABC) are fine. I just started getting 7 (ABC) tonight, but 4 (NBC) is all broken up. .Don't use 5, 9 or 11. Does anyone know what's going on with NBC? Is a bowtie antenna any better?


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starry521* /forum/post/16645991
> 
> 
> Any advices on getting an antenna, I live about 16 miles from the city in jersey.
> 
> I just brought a RadioShack antenna, Model: 15-1868, Catalog #: 15-1868 w/ UHF & VHF and the signal peaks at 40, I can get most of the main network channels although I lose signal very often but i can't get WABC or WPIX at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to get another indoor one and return the radioshack one. THANKS



I'm in a similar area as you and I can't get a signal from WABC-DT, WPIX-DT or WNET-DT with my RadioShack indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna Model: 15-1892 and another VHF/UHF antenna.


I connected my RadioShack outdoor scanner/ham discone antenna to my tuner card and all three come in with a strong signal.


I guess since the antenna is higher it has an easier time finding the signal.

Is the VHF signal that sensitive or are all three stations not at full power?


----------



## SemiChemE

Well, I have to say that I am frustrated and confused by my reception here in Poughkeepsie.


First my current stations list:


 Callsign__RF Ch__Vchan__ Netwk__SignalWRNN____48_____48.1____RNN____70WTBY____27_____54.1____TBN____70WTEN____26_____10.1____ABC____70WCWN___43_____45.1_____CW____30WMHT___34_____17.1_____PBS____70WPIX____11_____11.1_____CW____30WNET___13______13.1____PBS____30

All stations are watchable, although the 30% ones suffer from the occasional glitch (maybe every 5-10 minutes).


I have two attic mounted antennas. The first is an Antennas Direct C4 UHF antenna pointed north toward Albany. The second is a huge Taco Electra 9-element VHF Yagi pointed south toward NYC. Both antennas are connected through a CM7777 preamp.


As you may have guessed, I'm frustrated that despite being able to tune in 7 separate stations from two DMA's, I cannot get CBS, NBC, Fox, or MyN. For a test, I tried moving my VHF antenna outside. I found that 11.1 and 13.1 increased to 50%, but there was still no sign of WABC (7.1). Rotating the antenna towards Albany, I was able to pick up WRGB(CBS 6.1), WXXA(FOX 7-23.1) and WNYT(NBC 12-13.1) each at about 30%, so at least there's a little hope. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anything (except for an unwatchable 5% signal on 6.1) from inside the attic. I also couldn't get WNYA(MyN-13-51.1) even outside.


Now for the confusion, first, why can I get 11.1 and 13.1, but not 7.1? According to TVfool, 7.1 should be the strongest of the three by about 4dB and I believe that all three are being broadcast from the same location, so I would think they should have similar signal paths to my place. Furthermore, analog 7 used to come in better than 11 and 13.


Second, why are the two NYC VHF stations so much stronger than the Albany VHF stations? Supposedly, Albany is LOS, while NYC is 2Edge. TVfool estimates the Albany signals to be about 35-45dB stronger than the NYC stations. Am I getting some kind of mystery bounce from NYC and if so, why doesn't 7 get the same?


Finally, back in February, I was able to pull in the Albany VHF stations (7 and 12) at up to 60%, so what happened? The WNYT engineer suggested that it might be due to the leaves. Is that likely? It hasn't seemed to effect the UHF stations.


Anyway, looks like I need to break down and put the antenna up on the roof, perhaps with a rotator. Any recommendations?


----------



## dougwix

I'm in Brentwood, 39 miles east of ESB using my present mid grade Radio Shack all band antenna with a MAV-11 home built preamp. I thought this was going to be difficult. I'm very happy. All the channels are coming in fine. I'll have to sit down list the levels for you.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16646216
> 
> 
> I have two attic mounted antennas. The first is an Antennas Direct C4 UHF antenna pointed north toward Albany. The second is a huge Taco Electra 9-element VHF Yagi pointed south toward NYC. Both antennas are connected through a CM7777 preamp.



Good stuff here! Taco (Wade) has some great antennas. I had considered them for an FM DX'ing project that I have yet to complete.


The C4 should be more than adequate for UHF. However, I'm a little confused about the Taco antenna that you described. I just took a look at their web site, and only found one current-model Yagi antenna that looked like it was 9-elements: http://www.wade-antenna.com/TACO/ATCYagi.htm . And clearly, this does not cover the frequency band that you're trying to receive. Could it be that you're dealing with one of the ten-element antennas? See http://www.wade-antenna.com/TACO/10ElementYagi.htm . Or maybe your antenna is long-since discontinued?


At present, with what you've given us so far, I'm suspecting that you don't have the right VHF antenna. If so, then all of the mounting and orientation in the world is not going to help you.


See if you can better identify that Yagi antenna and let's go from there.


----------



## jkelly

I live in Sea Girt, NJ and was doing great until Friday.

Now that I have lost 7, 11 and 13 - do I need to add a VHF antenna

and combine that with my 4228 UHF antenna?


Thanks,


Jeff


----------



## SubaruB4

yes you need a VHF since 7, 11 and 13 moved back to VHF.


----------



## jpittman

I'm thoroughly confused by the channels I'm getting after the switch. I live right across the Hudson from the city, and prior to the switch my TV/antenna (DB2) received the digital signals of all four major networks + PBS perfectly. Saturday morning, all the channels except CBS were working fine. After numerous re-scans and messing with antenna location a little bit, I only get CBS and NBC in analog, and I don't get Fox at all. ABC and PBS come in fine in digital.


According to AntennaWeb, the only channels I'm getting right now are VHF, and the stations I'm not getting are UHF. Given the fact that I don't have a VHF antenna, I was worried about the exact opposite.


Am I missing something obvious as to why this is happening, or does anyone have any troubleshooting tips?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkelly* /forum/post/16647272
> 
> 
> I live in Sea Girt, NJ and was doing great until Friday.
> 
> Now that I have lost 7, 11 and 13 - do I need to add a VHF antenna
> 
> and combine that with my 4228 UHF antenna?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jeff



Yes, 7, 11 & 13 are now VHF .. Get a combo antenna or add a VHF antenna.


----------



## madison520

I live in northern jersey (16 miles from ESB) and lost WABC, WPIX and WNET after 6/11 (with Terk HDTVa). As HDTVa is VHF/UHF antenna, I believe it is station power issue. According to the DTV list in my area (from antennapoint.com), all those 3 stations (WABC-3.2kw, WPIX-5.89kw, WNET- 3.2KW) have very low power while other stations average 200kw more, which means I need outdoor antenna to pick up these weak signals. Is my understanding correct?

============================================================ ===

Affiliate Analog Digital Band Power City Distance Heading

WNYE-TV PBS 25 24 UHF 200.0 kW New York 13.34 mi 187.55°

WXTV Univision 41 40 UHF 300.0 kW Paterson 13.34 mi 187.55°

WNJU Telemundo 47 36 UHF 832.0 kW Linden 13.34 mi 187.55°

WMBC-TV IND 63 18 UHF 1000.0 kW Newton 13.91 mi 246.27°

WNJN PBS 50 51 UHF 200.0 kW Montclair 13.91 mi 246.27°

WWOR-TV UPN 9 38 UHF 136.0 kW Secaucus 16.24 mi 189.94°

WNYW FOX 5 44 UHF 225.0 kW New York 16.24 mi 189.94°

WNET PBS 13 13 UHF 3.2 kW Newark 16.24 mi 189.94°

WNBC NBC 4 28 UHF 164.0 kW New York 16.24 mi 189.94°

WABC ABC 7 7 3.2 kW New York 16.24 mi 189.94°

WCBS-TV CBS 2 33 UHF 239.0 kW New York 16.24 mi 189.94°

WPIX CW 11 11 VHF 5.89 kW New York 16.24 mi 189.94°

WPXN-TV PAX 31 31 UHF 225.0 kW New York 16.24 mi 189.94°

============================================================ ===


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16646216
> 
> 
> Well, I have to say that I am frustrated and confused by my reception here in Poughkeepsie.
> 
> 
> First my current stations list:
> 
> 
> Callsign__RF Ch__Vchan__ Netwk__SignalWRNN____48_____48.1____RNN____70WTBY____27_____54.1____TBN____70WTEN____26_____10.1____ABC____70WCWN___43_____45.1_____CW____30WMHT___34_____17.1_____PBS____70WPIX____11_____11.1_____CW____30WNET___13______13.1____PBS____30
> 
> All stations are watchable, although the 30% ones suffer from the occasional glitch (maybe every 5-10 minutes).
> 
> 
> I have two attic mounted antennas. The first is an Antennas Direct C4 UHF antenna pointed north toward Albany. The second is a huge Taco Electra 9-element VHF Yagi pointed south toward NYC. Both antennas are connected through a CM7777 preamp.
> 
> 
> As you may have guessed, I'm frustrated that despite being able to tune in 7 separate stations from two DMA's, I cannot get CBS, NBC, Fox, or MyN. For a test, I tried moving my VHF antenna outside. I found that 11.1 and 13.1 increased to 50%, but there was still no sign of WABC (7.1). Rotating the antenna towards Albany, I was able to pick up WRGB(CBS 6.1), WXXA(FOX 7-23.1) and WNYT(NBC 12-13.1) each at about 30%, so at least there's a little hope. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anything (except for an unwatchable 5% signal on 6.1) from inside the attic. I also couldn't get WNYA(MyN-13-51.1) even outside.
> 
> 
> Now for the confusion, first, why can I get 11.1 and 13.1, but not 7.1? According to TVfool, 7.1 should be the strongest of the three by about 4dB and I believe that all three are being broadcast from the same location, so I would think they should have similar signal paths to my place. Furthermore, analog 7 used to come in better than 11 and 13.
> 
> 
> Second, why are the two NYC VHF stations so much stronger than the Albany VHF stations? Supposedly, Albany is LOS, while NYC is 2Edge. TVfool estimates the Albany signals to be about 35-45dB stronger than the NYC stations. Am I getting some kind of mystery bounce from NYC and if so, why doesn't 7 get the same?
> 
> 
> Finally, back in February, I was able to pull in the Albany VHF stations (7 and 12) at up to 60%, so what happened? The WNYT engineer suggested that it might be due to the leaves. Is that likely? It hasn't seemed to effect the UHF stations.
> 
> 
> Anyway, looks like I need to break down and put the antenna up on the roof, perhaps with a rotator. Any recommendations?




I am also located in Poughkeepsie. I think all you need is a good rotor that is strong enough to turn both your VHF and UHF antennas (generally you need to keep your VHF and UHF antennas at least 5 feet apart on the mast). I also think you are already in good shape with your Channel Master Titan-2 7777 preamp. Just move it up on the mast above the rotor as close to the antennas as possible.


The one thing you can't control is the terrain. You and I have trouble because of the terrain - the Hudson Highlands south of Beacon is a barrier that prevents signals from traveling up the Hudson (hence the 2 edge from NYC and 1 edge from Albany in my case). Ironically Poughkeepsie is in the NYC DMA but we both do better with out of market Albany, NY DMA because the terrain is flatter (except for signals clipping the edge of Catskill Mountains).


I did a final channel scan the morning after "T" Day (June 13th). I thought I'd post it to show how us folks on the fringe are doing.


We have really old outdoor antennas (the Archer UHF Yagi is thirty years old, the Channel Master Crossfire VHF is 26 years old). The mast is rusted and even after loosening the eve mount on the side of the house, we couldn't turn the mast toward Albany, NY, which seems to have more favorable reception as the TVFool web site suggested.


So with the VHF stuck towards NYC (for legacy analog up until "T" Day), and UHF on a rotor, here are the stations we can pick up post June 12th:


ESB (63 miles south):

WNYW (5-1, 5-2)

WFUT (68-1, 68-2)

(NONE OF THE VHF-HI CHANNELS COME IN AT ALL - Signal strength for 7, 11, and 13 are too weak on the converter box signal meter for a lock)


Mt. Beacon (12 miles south - line of sight)

WTBY (54-1, 54-2, 54-3, 54-4, 54-5)

WRNN (48-1, 48-2, 48-3)


Helderberg Mtn antenna farm (67 miles north- near Albany NY)

WTEN (10-1, 10-2, 10-3)

WMHT (17-1, 17-2, 17-3)


Generally, it turned out to be a net loss (we received more analog stations in pre-transition era), so we fall into the 2% the FCC predicted would lose channels. Looking at the FCC maps, Poughkeepsie falls outside the range of nearly all Albany, NY stations, NYC stations, and Hartford, CT stations. It sucks to be located here, signal wise.


My question is: does antenna performance degrade over the years? What happens to aluminum after it has been out in the elements for a couple of decades? No elements are seriously bent, but they have gone through a lot of winters. We did everything we could short of replacing the antennas (added a CM Spartan 0264 preamp, new RG6 lead in wire).


BTW, this is my first post. I've been reading this thread for months, and this is the first time I've ever jumped in to participate.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/16647490
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, it turned out to be a net loss (we received more analog stations in pre-transition era), so we fall into the 2% the FCC predicted would lose channels. Looking at the FCC maps, Poughkeepsie falls outside the range of nearly all Albany, NY stations, NYC stations, and Hartford, CT stations. It sucks to be located here, signal wise.



Heck I live in CT and I can't get WTNH at all.. the NYC stations are better then CT but the NYC stations only report anything in CT if it's a large event like the chimp attack which is only 5 miles from here.


However to get WTNH my antenna has to be pointed about 180 degrees the other way.


----------



## johnosolis

I am in East Williamsburg, Brooklyn (11206), approximately 5 miles from the ESB. I have a DB2 Antenna from AntennasDirect.Com. I live in a slightly sunken ground floor apt in a brick building. My antenna is mounted indoors about 6 ft above ground level pointing south-west (not towards the ESB which is NW).


This is my reception this morning:


2 CBS 100%

4 NBC 92%

5 FOX 100%

7 ABC 92%

9 MY9 92%

11 CW 70%

13 PBS 83%

25 Ind. 100%

34 CV 100%

41 Uni 87%

47 Tel 62%

68 FUT 100%


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16646968
> 
> 
> Good stuff here! Taco (Wade) has some great antennas. I had considered them for an FM DX'ing project that I have yet to complete.
> 
> 
> The C4 should be more than adequate for UHF. However, I'm a little confused about the Taco antenna that you described. I just took a look at their web site, and only found one current-model Yagi antenna that looked like it was 9-elements: http://www.wade-antenna.com/TACO/ATCYagi.htm . And clearly, this does not cover the frequency band that you're trying to receive. Could it be that you're dealing with one of the ten-element antennas? See http://www.wade-antenna.com/TACO/10ElementYagi.htm . Or maybe your antenna is long-since discontinued?
> 
> 
> At present, with what you've given us so far, I'm suspecting that you don't have the right VHF antenna. If so, then all of the mounting and orientation in the world is not going to help you.
> 
> 
> See if you can better identify that Yagi antenna and let's go from there.



Yeah, the 9-element Yagi is an oddball. It says "TACO" on it, but I haven't been able to figure out the model. I'm sure it is ancient as it came with the house and the previous owner had lived here 50+ years. It's a funny antenna, with a bunch of weird "loops" on the ends or in the middle of the elements. As for whether it is the "right" VHF antenna, I suspect it must be pretty good, since I'm pulling in 11.1 and 13.1 at 64 miles away, behind a mountain and with the antenna in an attic. TVfool, estimates the signal of these stations at my location to be -106.6 dBm! Also, prior to the transition, it pulled in all the NYC VHF stations, decently. Sure there was some snow, but at 64 miles with 2Edge, what do you expect?


I have another VHF antenna I didn't mention before that appears to be a Taco Y-104 series, 10-element antenna. When I took it outside, I was able to pick up WRGB (6) from Albany, but nothing else, which isn't terribly surprising as this is a VHF-Low antenna. The signal was about the same on from this antenna as from the oddball, which again makes me suspect that it is a pretty decent VHF antenna.


----------



## LQX

I'm in Brooklyn, NY and ever since the transition I cannot pick up channel 7 where as it was one of my cleanest stations before. Rescanned and rescanned and none of my TV's can pick up the station. I get everything else.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LQX* /forum/post/16648044
> 
> 
> I'm in Brooklyn, NY and ever since the transition I cannot pick up channel 7 where as it was one of my cleanest stations before. Rescanned and rescanned and none of my TV's can pick up the station. I get everything else.



Do you only have a UHF antenna?


Although most UHF antennas will pick up Hi-VHF, Channel 7 can be a problem!


----------



## LenL

I am 30 miles west from ESB with a Channel Master 4228 antenna and 7777 preamp 40 feet up on chimmney. Results so far are not good. I gained some and lost some.


Today I will try w/o the preamp. Also I have a Channel Master Converter Box which when turned on will get me a few more channels than the Sharp TV alone. Picture is good too as it has s-video to TV. I will post updated results later.


So far the conversion has not been good for me...


_______________6/11___6/12____6/13


NET_______CH_____LEV_____LEV____LEV


WCBS______2.1____00%_____55%____79%

WNBC______4.1____78%_____63%____70%

WNYW______5.1____65%_____61%____62%

WABC______7.1____76%_____00%____00%

WWOR______9.1____00%_____00%____00%

WPIX_____11.1____81%_____00%____00%

WNET_____13.1____00%_____00%____00%

WLIW_____21.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNYE_____25.1____62%_____62%____72%

WFME_____29.1____00%_____00%____00%

WPXN_____31.1____56%_____43%____78%

WXTV_____41.1____33%_____48%____00%

WNJU_____47.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNJN_____50.1____84%_____78%____74%

WLNY_____55.1____00%_____00%____00%

WNJB_____58.1____00%_____00%____00%

WMBC_____63.1____99%_____00%____99%

WFUT_____68.1____00%_____00%____80%


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16648034
> 
> 
> I have another VHF antenna I didn't mention before that appears to be a Taco Y-104 series, 10-element antenna. When I took it outside, I was able to pick up WRGB (6) from Albany, but nothing else, which isn't terribly surprising as this is a VHF-Low antenna. The signal was about the same on from this antenna as from the oddball, which again makes me suspect that it is a pretty decent VHF antenna.



I went back and looked at your posting from January 8th, 2009 where you posted two links of the two different antennas in your attic.


I can't figure out the make of the antenna in the first picture (the Taco with the funny looking loops you described), but the second one (that you refer to as a Taco Y-104) looks just like a Channel Master FM antenna that was on our roof 20 years ago. You probably can only pick up WRGB Channel 6 because that antenna is cut specifically for the FM Band (88-108MHz) and Channel 6 comes closest to that than any other channel. I'd use it just for receiving FM only - it's not meant for VHF-TV.


----------



## jkelly

OK thanks - how would I combine 2 antenna coax's (vhf and uhf) correctly?

Will a 1 - 2 splitter reversed 2 -1 do the job?


Thanks,


Jeff



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16647374
> 
> 
> Yes, 7, 11 & 13 are now VHF .. Get a combo antenna or add a VHF antenna.


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/16647490
> 
> 
> My question is: does antenna performance degrade over the years? What happens to aluminum after it has been out in the elements for a couple of decades? No elements are seriously bent, but they have gone through a lot of winters. We did everything we could short of replacing the antennas (added a CM Spartan 0264 preamp, new RG6 lead in wire).
> 
> 
> BTW, this is my first post. I've been reading this thread for months, and this is the first time I've ever jumped in to participate.



Hi Neighbor! Welcome to the board. It appears based on the distances you listed in your post that you are about 1 mile south of me. I'm just off of Route 9, on Beechwood. I haven't really tried messing with my UHF antenna yet, but your post gives me hope for getting WNYW and maybe WFUT after I get the antennas up on the roof. I'm a little surprised that you don't get WCWN (45.1) from Albany, maybe that's the difference between the CM0264 and the CM7777? or it could just be the terrain.


As for your question, I have heard that Aluminum can oxidize a bit leading to some performance degradation. I doubt that it would amount to more than a few dB, but maybe that would be enough? Based on my experience, I really think you should be able to get WPIX (11.1) and WNET (13.1) from NYC and WRGB (6.1), WXXA (23.1), and WNYT (13.1) from Albany if you can get your VHF antenna oriented properly.


----------



## speedlaw

All working here in upper westchester. I recorded most of the transitions, but Channel 7 was the only one that did anything other than an unannnounced flash cut. Ch 7 showed "the switch" being pushed. Disappointing for the others.


I had issues getting my Panasonic TV to see the VHF digital channels. Scanning "digital" revealed all the UHF, but you had to enable "analog" to see the 2-13 channels. It then found them. My Sony DVRs were also confused by the "low digital" but eventually found them.


I have always been fortunate that my roof antenna received everything, even the old PBS signal. The analog transition here went well. Thanks to the poster who explained why channel four has aspect ratio issues.


The only analog is the nitelight service for 2 and 4. 4 is weaker than "usual". so it appears they are running reduced power.


For all of you with reception issues, if you have control over your roof/walls, I repeat the mantra of Ham Radio Operators...get as much metal as you can as high up as you can for an antenna.


I've played with radio enough to see places where VHF high (7-13) works and UHF does not, and vice/versa. The signals may be digital but RF reception is the same.


Also, for the prior posters, antennas don't wear out, but over time, the connections will oxidize, and if you have any splitter or 300ohm to 75 ohm devices (the flat lead to coax connector) water will eventually intrude. Try moving your antennas around a bit (horizontal, lateral and in height) to find signals. I once had a problem hitting a ham radio repeater station after raising my antenna 15 feet, normally a very good thing. Think of Cell Phones. It works in the bedroom, but not the kitchen. You may have to move the antennas around. Since RF voltages are tiny-very tiny, even for folks with 100%, an oxidized connection can be a bad thing.


You can't break it-you can't mess it up-if you can put up an antenna, think broadly and you'll find a sweet spot. Compared to any pay TV service, an antenna is less than two months pay TV and will last 10-20 years if installed carefully.


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/16648237
> 
> 
> I went back and looked at your posting from January 8th, 2009 where you posted two links of the two different antennas in your attic.
> 
> 
> I can't figure out the make of the antenna in the first picture (the Taco with the funny looking loops you described), but the second one (that you refer to as a Taco Y-104) looks just like a Channel Master FM antenna that was on our roof 20 years ago. You probably can only pick up WRGB Channel 6 because that antenna is cut specifically for the FM Band (88-108MHz) and Channel 6 comes closest to that than any other channel. I'd use it just for receiving FM only - it's not meant for VHF-TV.



You could be right about that being an FM antenna. It does say "Taco" on it, so I'm certain about the manufacturer, but less certain of the model. It appears to have a built-in pre-amp as well. In any case, I'm not really using it for anything at the moment, which is why I didn't mention it in the original post. I tried it out, just for fun, but it usually just sits up in the attic. Anyone interested in an old FM antenna?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkelly* /forum/post/16648290
> 
> 
> OK thanks - how would I combine 2 antenna coax's (vhf and uhf) correctly?
> 
> Will a 1 - 2 splitter reversed 2 -1 do the job?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jeff



yes a 2 way splitter is the cheapest most effective combiner. for you non believers out there, set on of your DTV box or vcr outputs to ch3 and another to ch4 and combine them with a splitter used backwards. then hook up the combined output to an analog tv tuner and you will see it works effectively


----------



## gjvrieze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkelly* /forum/post/16648290
> 
> 
> OK thanks - how would I combine 2 antenna coax's (vhf and uhf) correctly?
> 
> Will a 1 - 2 splitter reversed 2 -1 do the job?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jeff



It may work, but the better option is: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ


----------



## reddice

I can get all the channels I use to get except high VHF Channel 11. Channel 2 comes in great now. In the 70's. I noticed that high VHF channels 7 and 13 come in the high 50's to mid 60's. I noticed that sometimes it will come in the high 50's but at night it comes in more in the mid 60's. Channel 13 is a bit stronger at night. Also even though it comes in the 50's to 60's the signal is more stable than a UHF signal. It does not fluctuate much. A UHF signal if it came in the 50's to 60's would keep dropping out below to the 40's. Also it fluctuates more. I watched some of "The Haunted Mansion" on channel 7 last night and even though it was mostly in the high 50's the signal did not break up. Channel 4 RF 28 coming in like that would keep randomly breaking up.


Although I was never able to get channels 31 and 41 I am still annoyed that I can't get Channel 11. Channel 47 is my strongest channel out of all them. Even stronger than that waste of space channel 66. I can peak channel 47 in the low 90's. Do you know if they are still in NJ or on the ESB. If they are on the ESB then why can't the more important channels be that powerful. Even though channel 47 is no longer a waste since they broadcast in 1080i HD. Since they have no subchannels they have excellent picture quality just like channel 2 does. Channel 13's "Kids Thirteen" subchannel is the only useful station. Also on my mothers cruddy Radio Shack UFO antenna she can now get channel 2 but can't get anything on the high VHF channels 7, 11 and 13. I can at least get channels 7 and 13.


I see that my Amazon order is charged so they should be shipping it soon. I will see if it will help having the amplified Terk HDTVa antenna. I can always connect it without the amp if it does not help or make things worse. It won't be a waste because I will be given the Terk HDTVi back to my mother to see if it will improve her reception over the overpriced space saucier junk antenna.


----------



## moonstar

I did a new channel scan this morning. In UES, my Terk HDTVa still does NOT pick up Channel 7.







Channel 11 is unstable, Channel 13 and other network channels are fine. I need a new antenna then?


----------



## LQX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16648056
> 
> 
> Do you only have a UHF antenna?
> 
> 
> Although most UHF antennas will pick up Hi-VHF, Channel 7 can be a problem!



I have a Terk HDTVi VHF/UHF HDTV Indoor Antenna. Channel 7 was great right before the transition. Watched Lost every week and was amazed at the clarity and now its gone. I think they flipped the wrong switch.


----------



## Constable Odo

You almost can't go wrong with something like this:
http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=8353 

It's very similar to my Radio Shack VU-90 XR in number of elements, corner-reflector design and range. Plus you can always add an amp to it. Make sure you get high quality coax, too. People that are using indoor antennas are really putting themselves at a disadvantage for good signal strength.


----------



## reddice

Not everyone can get a outdoor antenna. Many people live in apartments or other residents where the landlord will not allow any outdoor antenna. Also I can't put no outdoor antenna either because last year new windows were put in the front of the house and no more holes can be drilled.


Also since most of us in the tri-state area live so close to the ESB transmitter we should not need no outdoor antenna. The weaker stations need to boost the power.


----------



## ghostie

Are the major networks broadcast from different sources? Antenna web tell me to point the antenna in the following directions (from Sunset Park, Brooklyn):


2, 4, 7, 11 - 9 degrees

5, 9, 13, 31, 68 - 21 degrees


I'm guessing 9 degress is 4 Times Square and 21 degrees is ESB. Are they going to remain separate?


I notice that channel 5, 9, 31 and 68 are coming in with a very weak signal at only 0% to 20%. Channel 13 is 100% (probably because it's VHF) and 2, 4, 7, 11 are coming in at 70% to 100%.


----------



## Trip in VA

Antennaweb, once again showing the world that it IS possible to be completely wrong all the time.


9 degrees is 1 World Trade Center. 2, 4, 7, and 11 have applications in place for when it's finished. The others do not. Antennaweb should be showing ESB for all of those signals, except maybe 68, which I think is on 4 Times Square.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/16647879
> 
> 
> I am in East Williamsburg, Brooklyn (11206), approximately 5 miles from the ESB. I have a DB2 Antenna from AntennasDirect.Com. I live in a slightly sunken ground floor apt in a brick building. My antenna is mounted indoors about 6 ft above ground level pointing south-west (not towards the ESB which is NW).
> 
> 
> This is my reception this morning:
> 
> 
> 2 CBS 100%
> 
> 4 NBC 92%
> 
> 5 FOX 100%
> 
> 7 ABC 92%
> 
> 9 MY9 92%
> 
> 11 CW 70%
> 
> 13 PBS 83%
> 
> 25 Ind. 100%
> 
> 34 CV 100%
> 
> 41 Uni 87%
> 
> 47 Tel 62%
> 
> 68 FUT 100%



WOW SO the DB2 DOES GET VHF? It is a UHF antenna. This is great news since I have to install a Clearstream C2 which is a cousin of the DB2 imo. I was worried about VHF and we are 7 miles from ESB. So we should also have no problems


I feel better now. Thanks for the info


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16642629
> 
> 
> If you have unreliable or no reception on ch 7,11 & 13 you must raise the signal to noise ratio (SNR). You most likely lost SNR margin due to (a) improper impedance match between the source and tuner and/or (b) FM 2nd order distortion. The insidious nature of these two is that they're hard to detect and that just the lowering the SNR margin, not necessarily killing the channel, is enough to make these channels freeze and pixellate when you walk around.
> 
> 
> On Item (a) above: The mismatch raises the factory specified noise figure and that reduces the sensitivity of the tuner. Depending on the mismatch, the noise figure could become 10-20dB higher than that specified. A 10dB rise in NF is akin to lowering the transmitter power by 10dB. My advice is to avoid at all cost antennas with amplifiers.
> 
> Try passive outdoor antenna first. If it works, try the passive indoor UHF antenna I recommended in #8997. It's only $12. Even though it's a UHF antenna, if you're within 15 miles of ESB it may do.
> 
> 
> Good luck.



Hm... thanks. imma look into this one as I still cannot pick up ABC. Imma look if it's sold at a store so that I can regurn if it doesn't work. Thanks for your suggestin! Hope it's small.









http://www.summitsource.com/digital-...b3fb6b6d1a7829 


EDIT *


Ouch!
_The product is no longer available for purchase.

It has been replaced by the Magnavox Amplified Indoor Antenna !!!!_


----------



## reddice

This means that antennas with amplifiers could make high VHF reception worse. I already ordered the HDTVa. I can't cancel it. Can I connect the antenna without the amplifier if it makes it worse which makes it just like the HDTVi.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16648551
> 
> 
> Also on my mothers cruddy Radio Shack UFO antenna she can now get channel 2 but can't get anything on the high VHF channels 7, 11 and 13. I can at least get channels 7 and 13.



i'm planning to try a bunch of different antennas this week and the RadioShack UFO is one of them. which channels can you get *with your UFO*? and how far are you from the ESB?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LQX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a Terk HDTVi VHF/UHF HDTV Indoor Antenna. Channel 7 was great right before the transition.



i'll buy myself an HDTVa this week. which channels can you get with your HDTVi? how far are you from the ESB? have you tried placing your HDTVi on the window? my home-made UHF loop cannot get *any* channel whatsoever when placed in my living-room! on the other hand, i can get several UHF channels when i place the loop on the window (inside the apartment)....even though said window is kept closed at all times. another thing, try pointing your HDTVi antenna up. someone else here did it and got better results!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16649211
> 
> 
> WOW SO the DB2 DOES GET VHF? It is a UHF antenna. This is great news since I have to install a Clearstream C2 which is a cousin of the DB2 imo.



i thought you had already installed it by now.... when are you gonna do it? i'm curious about your results.




i see LOTS of people here complaining about reception of 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1. i'd like to know, how many ppl (in percentual terms) are having problems with those stations.... it seems to me that going back to high VHF has been a big mistake for those stations. it looks to me that *most* of those people who are receiving ABC, CW and Thirteen possess an *outdoor* antenna....


please, could someone here enlighten me? what's the advantage -- if any -- of using high VHF as opposed to UHF? why did they do it?!?!? is it cheaper?


----------



## reddice

UFO is okay for UHF reception but VHF it seems no good. Amplified does not improve reception. You can adjust it by three levels but it does not make a bit of difference if it is set to 1 minimum or to 3 maximum. You can't adjust the dipoles much. You can only move them side to side. With the Terk antennas you can move them in different directions.


With the UFO I can get 2, 4, 5, 9, 25, 47, 66 and 68. I am 4 miles from the ESB.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16649733
> 
> 
> i'm planning to try a bunch of different antennas this week and the RadioShack UFO is one of them. which channels can you get *with your UFO*? and how far are you from the ESB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'll buy myself an HDTVa this week. which channels can you get with your HDTVi? how far are you from the ESB? have you tried placing your HDTVi on the window? my home-made UHF loop cannot get *any* channel whatsoever when placed in my living-room! on the other hand, i can get several UHF channels when i place the loop on the window (inside the apartment)....even though said window is kept closed at all times. another thing, try pointing your HDTVi antenna up. someone else here did it and got better results!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i thought you had already installed it by now.... when are you gonna do it? i'm curious about your results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i see LOTS of people here complaining about reception of 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1. i'd like to know, how many ppl (in percentual terms) are having problems with those stations.... it seems to me that going back to high VHF has been a big mistake for those stations. it looks to me that *most* of those people who are receiving ABC, CW and Thirteen possess an *outdoor* antenna....
> 
> 
> please, could someone here enlighten me? what's the advantage -- if any -- of using high VHF as opposed to UHF? why did they do it?!?!? is it cheaper?



Weekend changed to beginning next week


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16649733
> 
> 
> i'm planning to try a bunch of different antennas this week and the RadioShack UFO is one of them. which channels can you get *with your UFO*? and how far are you from the ESB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'll buy myself an HDTVa this week. which channels can you get with your HDTVi? how far are you from the ESB? have you tried placing your HDTVi on the window? my home-made UHF loop cannot get *any* channel whatsoever when placed in my living-room! on the other hand, i can get several UHF channels when i place the loop on the window (inside the apartment)....even though said window is kept closed at all times. another thing, try pointing your HDTVi antenna up. someone else here did it and got better results!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i thought you had already installed it by now.... when are you gonna do it? i'm curious about your results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i see LOTS of people here complaining about reception of 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1. i'd like to know, how many ppl (in percentual terms) are having problems with those stations.... it seems to me that going back to high VHF has been a big mistake for those stations. it looks to me that *most* of those people who are receiving ABC, CW and Thirteen possess an *outdoor* antenna....
> 
> 
> please, could someone here enlighten me? what's the advantage -- if any -- of using high VHF as opposed to UHF? why did they do it?!?!? is it cheaper?



You know you can get a DB2/aspen for like $30 Read my post #9164 Seems this UFH antenna is working on Close VHF quite well


I think you should be looking on a small out door antenna. Rather then an indoor antenna. Speaking from past experience RadioShack stuff is garbage.


Go to J&R or B&H (Closer to you)


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16649753
> 
> 
> You can't adjust the dipoles much. You can only move them side to side. With the Terk antennas you can move them in different directions.
> 
> 
> With the UFO I can get 2, 4, 5, 9, 25, 47, 66 and 68. I am 4 miles from the ESB.



i saw the UFO up close on display yesterday. i noticed that the dipoles cannot move in *any* direction. they can only be stretched in or out. maybe the design has changed since you bought yours.


like i said before, try putting your UFO on the window (indoors). it makes a BIG difference! i say that because i live in valley where the signals are obstructed by a hill (Tryon Park). also, my antenna is just a loop made of wires. if i place it on the window, i get the same channels you get plus 31.1. another thing, my freaking window faces north! you should be doing better with the UFO, i think.


Edit: 4 miles from ESB?!?! i'm 8mi away in a "hole" facing the opposite direction! you really should be receiving more channels.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16648097
> 
> 
> I am 30 miles west from ESB with a Channel Master 4228 antenna and 7777 preamp 40 feet up on chimmney. Results so far are not good. I gained some and lost some.
> 
> 
> Today I will try w/o the preamp. Also I have a Channel Master Converter Box which when turned on will get me a few more channels than the Sharp TV alone. Picture is good too as it has s-video to TV. I will post updated results later.
> 
> 
> So far the conversion has not been good for me...
> 
> 
> _______________6/11___6/12____6/13
> 
> 
> NET_______CH_____LEV_____LEV____LEV
> 
> 
> WCBS______2.1____00%_____55%____79%
> 
> WNBC______4.1____78%_____63%____70%
> 
> WNYW______5.1____65%_____61%____62%
> 
> WABC______7.1____76%_____00%____00%
> 
> WWOR______9.1____00%_____00%____00%
> 
> WPIX_____11.1____81%_____00%____00%
> 
> WNET_____13.1____00%_____00%____00%
> 
> WLIW_____21.1____00%_____00%____00%
> 
> WNYE_____25.1____62%_____62%____72%
> 
> WFME_____29.1____00%_____00%____00%
> 
> WPXN_____31.1____56%_____43%____78%
> 
> WXTV_____41.1____33%_____48%____00%
> 
> WNJU_____47.1____00%_____00%____00%
> 
> WNJN_____50.1____84%_____78%____74%
> 
> WLNY_____55.1____00%_____00%____00%
> 
> WNJB_____58.1____00%_____00%____00%
> 
> WMBC_____63.1____99%_____00%____99%
> 
> WFUT_____68.1____00%_____00%____80%



I would suggest checking to make sure your Channel Master 7777 is not set up in the UHF only mode. I believe there is an internal switch that should be set to "combined". That could explain you not getting WABC, WPIX, and WNET at all.


----------



## stormcat

I need to buy an new HDTV (probably LCD over plasma) with a strong tuner because I will use it only for over-the-air broadcasts. I'm in Jersey City (Journal Sq-ish, not on the water).


I know I'll have to get an antenna and that I'll be having problems getting the 'new' channels. Can the quality of the tuner in the new TV I plan on buying help me get reception? If so, I'd appreciate any feedback/recommendations on brands or specific sets (40", maybe 37")


Most of the tech lingo here is over my head, straighforward recommendations on an antenna or the-thing-that-amplifies-signal-strength (I've forgotten the name) would be helpful. THank you.


----------



## nordloewelabs

maybe there's hope for this channel....

they might add more MSNBC and CNBC shows in the future.


SUNDAY, JUN 14:

------------------------------------------------------------------

5:30 PM The Wall Street Journal Report (News, 2009)

6:00 PM On the Money (News)

7:30 PM The Wall Street Journal Report (News, 2009)

8:00 PM On the Money (News)

9:00 PM Meet the Press (News, 2009)

10:00 PM The Chris Matthews Show (2009)

10:30 PM The Wall Street Journal Report (News, 2009)


----------



## SnellKrell

That's the weekend - wait until tomorrow and all the days until we reach Saturday and the swill shall be there to educate us all.


Just think of the horror that the empty suits at 4 are creating - a new 5 p.m. Monday-

Friday show to replace the news - and the major "talent" - none other than Sara Gore!


How ignorant can these people be?


Well, I guess they'll be showing us!!!!


How much lower in the ratings can 4 go?


Stay tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SubaruB4

So I was letting my mother try out the stations when I noticed I had another station that was added 1-1.. which turned out I finally got a lock on it which is WNYZ-LP AKA Pulse 87.. the picture was blocky but it looks like a video? I could not tell what it was..


I still can't get WNJN despite them running a higher power level


WLNY still comes in but I don't know where I'm getting the signal from Stamford, CT or one of the other locations.. given that I'm about 5 miles from stamford I guess it's Stamford but it should not matter which way my antenna is pointed right? It's up and down sometimes 50% and sometimes 40% in which I drop the lock to the station.


----------



## R.F. Burns

I'm going to call NJN tomorrow. I have trouble believing they are transmitting. I have a directional array pointed south and a mast mounted pre-amp. Even running low power I was able to get an image from WNJN analog. If they were running licensed power at this poiint I can't imagine that I wouldn't be able to watch their transmissions. I live about 20 miles north of NYC and can receive WTBY channel 54 & WRNN during periods of enhancement (morning usually) and that is off the back of my antenna. Up until about a week ago I was able to receive WMBC & WFME fairly well. Now I can no longer receive WMBC or WFME. WNJU, which according to the FCC has moved off of Empire, has also disappeared. I wonder if there's an issue at the transmitter site. From what I can determine it looks like these stations might be using the same site to transmit from. All stations from Empire & 4 Times Square (Conde Nast) have terrific signals at my location. To give an example of what my system can do at FM frequencies, I can receive WHCU (8 Watts) WSIA (11 watts) and NJ 101.5 with no problem. During morning enhancement WPUR (107.3) can also be heard using a Sony HD tuner and a Sangean HDT-1X. I guess we'll see some improvements in the coming weeks.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16650544
> 
> 
> I'm going to call NJN tomorrow. I ahve trouble believing they are transmitting.



is that the station that was supposed to boost its signal Saturday? the one that would broadcast at channel 8? i've been re-scanning for new channels since this info was posted here and so far nothing. i'm completely PBS-less. :-(


----------



## BrooklynGal

Reddice & Nordloewelabs -- MY UFO (& Zenith 901) is working out, though I don't claim I've perfected it yet. I'm the only person in my entire appt building (which no longer has an antenna on the roof) who isn't on cable, so no outside antenna possible here! & I'm 10 miles south of ESB in Brooklyn. & my antenna is nowhere near the window, either.


I have the UFO set in the sweet spot I found for 13 analog pass-through (I couldn't receive 61 digitally) with the rabbit ears partly extended in the way that worked for 13 analog till now & this AM I made my first stab at post-transition reception. All my results are with the antenna in this position with the rabbit ears extended for 13 analog reception -- & basically it's working out that way. I'm hoping not to need to keep repositioning the antenna







though I realize I may discover that moving in the rabbit ears may improve the weaker UHF stations' reception.


As has been the case till now, my reception IMPROVES drastically with the UFO gain set highest at 3, & drops off/ disappears when lowered. This is true for both UHF & VHF reception, my personal best bet is leave the gain on 3.


the beauty of UFO is figure out the best settings, set them up, & then point & click; & it's working for me (with some caveats to be addressed)post changeover.


I started by moving to setting 9 (which is where, on analog pass-through, I got best reception for 13 / or it didn't interfere. whatever! -- as the youngsters say) & re-scanned. Sure enough: 9 turns out to be my best setting for channels 2, 11, & 13 with subs, all coming in strong & clear, showing reception at the low end of my "good" reception zone! Setting 9 is also best for channels 4 & 9, (but they periodically disappear on me) & their reception shows as lower down in the middle area. Of course, they look & sounds as good as the others when I get them.


Setting 12 is best for channel 25 WNYE.

Setting 7 is best for channel 50 WNJN.

Setting 5 is best for channel 5







- & it also receives all the above adequately, except 4,9,& 50 don't come in on it.


I am not listing / paying particular attention to them, but am also continuing to receive strong reception on 29 (66) & several Spanish stations (47,68 & 34 which is new to me now.)


...In case my UFO settings will help you along.


I'm still working on pulling in 31, 7, & would like to improve 4 drastically. I'm less concerned with 9 since it duplicates 5.


also hoping to eventually find 58.1 & 21.1, which I occasionally caught in the past on analog...


For the knowledgeable people out there, a question:

I can't figure out why all my stations emanating from ESB, all supposedly at exact same angle from my home according to TVFool etc, don't all show up best using the same UFO setting. It would seem that I should receive all (except 50 & 58.1 & 21.1, whenever I hit upon them) using 1 UFO setting aimed right at the ESB. But it's not so!


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16650565
> 
> 
> is that the station that was supposed to boost its signal Saturday? the one that would broadcast at channel 8? i've been re-scanning for new channels since this info was posted here and so far nothing. i'm completely PBS-less. :-(



yes WNJU was stated to boost it's output on June 13th I can't tell if the transmitter is on or not it's almost like it's turned off.


Also for PBS


I can get WNET but not so much WLIW yet but do they both show the same programs?


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16650565
> 
> 
> is that the station that was supposed to boost its signal Saturday? the one that would broadcast at channel 8? i've been re-scanning for new channels since this info was posted here and so far nothing. i'm completely PBS-less. :-(



Well according to the FCC filing, WNJB has requested a move to NYC but won't do so until October of this year. I'm also of the opinion that they might not return to air at all until July;

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=48457 



"NJPBA IS MOVING WITH ALL DUE DILIGENCE TO IMPLEMENT THE MODIFICATION, WHICH REPRESENTS THE CULMINATION OF DECADES OF EFFORTS TO DRAMATICALLY ENHANCE SERVICE TO THE PUBLIC VIA RELOCATION OF FACILITIES TO A VASTLY SUPERIOR SITE. IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT THE MODIFICATION WAS ONLY RECENTLY GRANTED AND OF THE LOGISTICAL ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PROJECT, NJPBA ANTICIPATED THAT IT WOULD SEEK SOME ADDITIONAL TIME TO COMPLETE THE RELOCATION. IN THAT REGARD NJPBA HAS FILED AND BEEN GRANTED AN EXTENSION UNTIL OCTOBER 18, 2009 TO COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION PURSUANT TO THE FCC'S POLICIES REGARDING PHASED TRANSITION RELIEF (SEE FCC. FILE NO. BLDSTA-20081217ABN). SUCH ADDITIONAL TIME WILL IN NO WAY COMPROMISE THE ACCESS OF NJPBA'S CURRENT AUDIENCE TO THE LICENSEE'S ANALOG AND DIGITAL SERVICE."


http://www.njn.net/television/channe...nel58loss.html 





But there was no such request made for any of their other sites.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1251612.html 


http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/ma...signs/WNJN.gif 



Maybe someone has more information on this subject.


----------



## gjvrieze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16649091
> 
> 
> Antennaweb, once again showing the world that it IS possible to be completely wrong all the time.
> 
> 
> 9 degrees is 1 World Trade Center. 2, 4, 7, and 11 have applications in place for when it's finished. The others do not. Antennaweb should be showing ESB for all of those signals, except maybe 68, which I think is on 4 Times Square.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I do not think the local stations really anticipated not being on the Freedom Tower after the on the day of the transition, back a few years. The new tower would many, as NYC buildings block a lot of people from having LOS to the ESB.


As I have seen, Antennaweb is off a lot, TVfool is almost always better.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrooklynGal* /forum/post/16650669
> 
> 
> Reddice & Nordloewelabs -- MY UFO (& Zenith 901) is working out, though I don't claim I've perfected it yet.



nice info *BrooklynGal*. after seeing lots of good reviews about the UFO at RadioShack.com, i decided to keep it on my radar. *reddice*'s experience with this antenna really surprised me. now that i've read your story, i'm inclined to believe that his UFO could be broken. the fact that none of the amplification settings change anything on his reception is a big flag-raiser....(!) please, if you ever try your UFO near the window, let us know how that impacts your reception.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16650711
> 
> 
> I can get WNET but not so much WLIW yet but do they both show the same programs?



most of the programming is the same between PBSs, but a documentary produced by PBS Boston might be aired by PBS New York, but not be aired by PBS Philly. so, while not greatly advantageous to have more than one PBS, it can be useful anyway.... especially in this age of reality-filled networks. in the case if WNET and WLIW the programming is very similar, but not identical.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well according to the FCC filing, WNJB has requested a move to NYC but won't do so until October of this year. I'm also of the opinion that they might not return to air at all until July



i'm trying not to get too excited about their move to ESB.... they will be using a high VHF channel, after all, which means i'll probably have a hard time to receive it. btw, wont WNJB's decision to use RF-8 create a problem with the already messed-up ABC (RF-7)?


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/16648302
> 
> 
> All working here in upper westchester.....
> 
> You can't break it-you can't mess it up-if you can put up an antenna, think broadly and you'll find a sweet spot. Compared to any pay TV service, an antenna is less than two months pay TV and will last 10-20 years if installed carefully.



Typical long term TV antenna system points of failure include bad/worn/weather beaten lead in coax or twin lead,bad end connectors, bad grounds, rusty rivets (drill out and replace with stainless steel nuts and bolts), bent/broken elements from wind and birds, weather contaminated balluns, crummy noisy preamps, too many spiltters.


From a safety standpoint wood mounts rot, metal tripods and masts rust out, guy wires snap.


Rotors forget where to stop, the brake fails, masts held in loose brackets slip and allow the antenna to go out of alignment.


Don't go crazy trying to bug shoot it. Rip it all out while the weather is good and put in good quality gear before the snow flies.


Get a fresh antenna that will receive the right band(s), solid mast, rotor, mast mount preamp with great signal to noise ratio, RG-6 coax, weather proof compression fit coax connectors, 8 foot long ground spike tied the rest of the house ground system.. and put it in a place where you can pickup signals. I guessimate about $300 should do it.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> btw, wont WNJB's decision to use RF-8 create a problem with the already messed-up ABC (RF-7)?



No, by being almost co-located, it will actually reduce interference in New Jersey.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

"i'm trying not to get too excited about their move to ESB.... they will be using a high VHF channel, after all, which means i'll probably have a hard time to receive it. btw, wont WNJB's decision to use RF-8 create a problem with the already messed-up ABC (RF-7)?"


First, WNJB-DT will not be moving to ESB, it locate approximately in Ocober at 4 Times Square, the Conde Nast Building.


Second, WNJB-DT was granted Channel 8 before WABC-DT received Channel 7.


The only way WABC-DT could get Channel 7 was if Channel 8 (WNJB-DT) were to

"co-locate" with 7. The FCC considers ESB and 4TS as co-located transmission sites.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/16649669
> 
> 
> Hm... thanks. imma look into this one as I still cannot pick up ABC. Imma look if it's sold at a store so that I can regurn if it doesn't work. Thanks for your suggestin! Hope it's small.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.summitsource.com/digital-...b3fb6b6d1a7829
> 
> 
> EDIT *
> 
> 
> Ouch!
> _The product is no longer available for purchase.
> 
> It has been replaced by the Magnavox Amplified Indoor Antenna !!!!_



It's there. I may have given you the wrong URL. Go to:
*
http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=7192 *


----------



## SubaruB4

So wait WNJB-DT is not transmitting now?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16651329
> 
> 
> So wait WNJB-DT is not transmitting now?




Yes, it is - from its current home, New Brunswick, NJ.


----------



## reddice

Channel 7 and 13 are in the 60's now. It seems stronger at night. Channel 2 is a bit weaker peaking it in the high 60's.


----------



## reddice

What I don't get is some of you can get the stations that I get the weakest strongest and the stations I get the strongest like channels 47 and 66 you can't get or get weak. I must live in just the right location to get those stations strong.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16651395
> 
> 
> Yes, it is - from its current home, New Brunswick, NJ.



Is is causing problems for channel 7? I though the idea for 7 to go on 7 was for channel 8 to move to the Conde Nast Building but now it is not moving until October. Would it cause signal problems for 4 months?


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 7's problem is a weak signal!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16650482
> 
> 
> So I was letting my mother try out the stations when I noticed I had another station that was added 1-1.. which turned out I finally got a lock on it which is WNYZ-LP AKA Pulse 87.. the picture was blocky but it looks like a video? I could not tell what it was..
> 
> 
> I still can't get WNJN despite them running a higher power level
> 
> 
> WLNY still comes in but I don't know where I'm getting the signal from Stamford, CT or one of the other locations.. given that I'm about 5 miles from stamford I guess it's Stamford but it should not matter which way my antenna is pointed right? It's up and down sometimes 50% and sometimes 40% in which I drop the lock to the station.



Pulse 87's current slogan is "New York's New Dance Music Leader." Though they do broadcast video, it is usually nature scenes that are repeated throughout the day, and only to fulfill the FCC requirement that some sort of video be broadcast on the frequency. WNYZ operates using a television license as opposed to an FM radio license, because the FCC only issues FM licenses between 88.1 and 107.9 MHz; the 87.7 frequency, though many radios can receive it, is specifically set aside for television by the FCC and by international organizations.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16651605
> 
> 
> Channel 7's problem is a weak signal!



Channel 11 is a weak signal for me!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16651626
> 
> 
> Pulse 87's current slogan is "New York's New Dance Music Leader." Though they do broadcast video, it is usually nature scenes that are repeated throughout the day, and only to fulfill the FCC requirement that some sort of video be broadcast on the frequency. WNYZ operates using a television license as opposed to an FM radio license, because the FCC only issues FM licenses between 88.1 and 107.9 MHz; the 87.7 frequency, though many radios can receive it, is specifically set aside for television by the FCC and by international organizations.



What RF channel are they on?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16651626
> 
> 
> Pulse 87's current slogan is "New York's New Dance Music Leader." Though they do broadcast video, it is usually nature scenes that are repeated throughout the day, and only to fulfill the FCC requirement that some sort of video be broadcast on the frequency. WNYZ operates using a television license as opposed to an FM radio license, because the FCC only issues FM licenses between 88.1 and 107.9 MHz; the 87.7 frequency, though many radios can receive it, is specifically set aside for television by the FCC and by international organizations.




I did not see a nature shot unless my box was showing a image from the last channel I was on (have you noticed they do that?)


and the RF number they are on is 6 which for me shows as 1-1 on my box..


the call is also coming up as WNYZ-LO


----------



## SubaruB4

and 7 and 11 come in fine here! How high are your antennas?


I estimate the antenna for me is about 40Ft above where my window is.. My window alone is 11Ft off the ground.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16651729
> 
> 
> Channel 11 is a weak signal for me!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16651605
> 
> 
> Channel 7's problem is a weak signal!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16651576
> 
> 
> What I don't get is some of you can get the stations that I get the weakest strongest and the stations I get the strongest like channels 47 and 66 you can't get or get weak. I must live in just the right location to get those stations strong.



the maps showing the signal areas on DTV.org or whatever the site was.. for stations like NMBC I'm in a area where I should be able to get it but I think that's a UHF station and my antenna is not pointed that way and I doubt I'd still be able to get it since the face of my building is in the way if you saw the shot I posted of my silver sensor.


Some other stations I should be able to get but height is what's limiting me... I might try to make a bracket so I can stick my antenna out a little bit more I just don't know how I can get the antenna to stay on it.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16651605
> 
> 
> Channel 7's problem is a weak signal!



1) for how long will the signal remain weak?

2) will ABC's, CW's and Thirteen's signals all get increased together?

3) why have they gone back to VHF?


----------



## POWERFUL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16650378
> 
> 
> maybe there's hope for this channel....
> 
> they might add more MSNBC and CNBC shows in the future.
> 
> 
> SUNDAY, JUN 14:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 5:30 PM The Wall Street Journal Report (News, 2009)
> 
> 6:00 PM On the Money (News)
> 
> 7:30 PM The Wall Street Journal Report (News, 2009)
> 
> 8:00 PM On the Money (News)
> 
> 9:00 PM Meet the Press (News, 2009)
> 
> 10:00 PM The Chris Matthews Show (2009)
> 
> 10:30 PM The Wall Street Journal Report (News, 2009)



All those shows are shown on NBC in the morning on Sundays. The only thing this means is that now I can sleep in on Sunday mornings and not miss watch my favorite political shows, because I can see it during the prime time hours. I'm with you guys on the MSNBC on a sub channel front, especially because in Cablevision markets those with FiOS can't get it.


----------



## SemiChemE

OK, so it looks like there's an antenna installation project in my future. Can anyone recommend a local antenna dealer (preferably in Dutchess, Orange or Westchester county). I actually already have the antennas, so I'm really looking for mounting supplies (brackets, tripods, masts, weather-proofers, etc...) and hopefully, a little guidance. I realize that I can order all of this stuff on-line. However, while most of the supplies are relatively inexpensive, they can be quite bulky and thus expensive to ship. I'm having trouble with the concept of paying $10 shipping for a $3 part. I can also picture myself forgetting some crucial component and it would be nice to have someplace I can go to pick up the missing piece, rather than waiting 2 weeks for a shipment.


I imagine Lowes and Home Depot will have some of this stuff, but it seems like they are pretty hit or miss. Are there other places I could be looking (eg. Radio Shack, Best Buy, Joe's Electronics)?


Finally, I am leaning toward a "Tripod" installation on the roof peak. Are there any guidelines I should be aware of regarding whether I need a 3-ft or 5ft tripod, as well as what kind of Mast Heights and weight loads each can support?


Anyway, I'd appreciate any suggestions.


----------



## nyctveng

just vecause u cannot pick them up does not mean they are not transmitting. my office is located by the hudson river in manhattan and i can pickup wnjn on 51 and wnjb on 8. on occasion wnjt 52 out of trenton comes in.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16650544
> 
> 
> I'm going to call NJN tomorrow. I have trouble believing they are transmitting. I have a directional array pointed south and a mast mounted pre-amp. Even running low power I was able to get an image from WNJN analog. If they were running licensed power at this poiint I can't imagine that I wouldn't be able to watch their transmissions. I live about 20 miles north of NYC and can receive WTBY channel 54 & WRNN during periods of enhancement (morning usually) and that is off the back of my antenna. Up until about a week ago I was able to receive WMBC & WFME fairly well. Now I can no longer receive WMBC or WFME. WNJU, which according to the FCC has moved off of Empire, has also disappeared. I wonder if there's an issue at the transmitter site. From what I can determine it looks like these stations might be using the same site to transmit from. All stations from Empire & 4 Times Square (Conde Nast) have terrific signals at my location. To give an example of what my system can do at FM frequencies, I can receive WHCU (8 Watts) WSIA (11 watts) and NJ 101.5 with no problem. During morning enhancement WPUR (107.3) can also be heard using a Sony HD tuner and a Sangean HDT-1X. I guess we'll see some improvements in the coming weeks.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/16652212
> 
> 
> just vecause u cannot pick them up does not mean they are not transmitting. my office is located by the hudson river in manhattan and i can pickup wnjn on 51 and wnjb on 8. on occasion wnjt 52 out of trenton comes in.



If WNJN was transmitting at full power I can't believe I couldn't get their signal. I was even able to watch their much power reduced analog signal. I am on the NY/NJ border about 10 minutes north of Alpine, NJ. By the way, I was able to receive their HD signal for a few weeks prior to the original February shut down date. After the delay was put in place WNJN disappeared and never came back. I am well within their service area.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16652103
> 
> 
> 1) for how long will the signal remain weak?
> 
> 2) will ABC's, CW's and Thirteen's signals all get increased together?
> 
> 3) why have they gone back to VHF?



1 - Until the FCC grants an increase in ERP.


2 - Although all three station share the Hi-VHF Combiner on the ESB, each station has its own transmitter and applies to the FCC as an individual entity.


3 - Both WABC-DT and WPIX-DT chose the change. WNET-DT's previous channel allocation, Channel 61 was "out of core," meaning that Channels

52-69 were no longer allocated for television broadcasting and stations had to find a new home.


----------



## LenL

Radio Shack has lots of parts but the price you will pay almost makes mail order attractive even with shipping. You will just have to compare. Lowes and Home Depot don't have a lot of parts...at least where I live...


----------



## dm145

They really screwed the pooch on this one!


A lot of people use to get 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13 for twenty years with rabbit ears. The only time we didn't was after 9-11


Not being able to get 7,11 and 13 without a roof top antenna is unacceptable!


They kept pushing stb's and never mentioned that you may need a new antenna as well. I guess cable and sat are going to get a ton of new subs after all!


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16653064
> 
> 
> They really screwed the pooch on this one!
> 
> 
> A lot of people use to get 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13 for twenty years with rabbit ears. The only time we didn't was after 9-11
> 
> 
> Not being able to get 7,11 and 13 without a roof top antenna is unacceptable!
> 
> 
> They kept pushing stb's and never mentioned that you may need a new antenna as well. I guess cable and sat are going to get a ton of new subs after all!



How long after 9/11 did it take for you to receive an acceptable picture? Consider that the changes which have occured here are on just about the same level technologically as what occured following 9/11. Many stations are broadcasting from new systems, some from alternate sites and now that real world conditions are underway there will be applications to the FCC to bring service back to normal levels with a short period of time. There are too many stations experiencing spotty coverage for improvements not to occur. Let's see waht this week brings. Unfortunately the switch took place on Friday afternoon and it's only Monday now. For me, while I was able to receive all area analog stations following 9/11 the image quality for many stations never returned to pre 9/11 levels. Work is going on and patience is the word for the day.


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16653064
> 
> 
> They really screwed the pooch on this one!
> 
> 
> Not being able to get 7,11 and 13 without a roof top antenna is unacceptable!



I can't get 7,11 and 13 now and *I have a roof antenna!*


I'm in upper Westchester and am using a Winegard SS-2000. It gets all the UHF and FM stations just fine. I'm hesitant to replace it with a big yagi only to find out that I still can't get 7,11 and 13.


Is anyone in upper Westchester (on the Hudson River side) getting 7,11 and 13? What antenna are you using. Thanks!!!


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16652589
> 
> 
> If WNJN was transmitting at full power I can't believe I couldn't get their signal. I was even able to watch their much power reduced analog signal. I am on the NY/NJ border about 10 minutes north of Alpine, NJ. By the way, I was able to receive their HD signal for a few weeks prior to the original February shut down date. After the delay was put in place WNJN disappeared and never came back. I am well within their service area.



I agree with you too about WNJN on June 12th I saw at least some signal from it.. now after June 13th I don't get a reading at all..


----------



## kousikb

I was out the whole weekends, so I didn't had time to try lot of antenna locations. But whatever I was able to try last night, I am not getting 7, 11 and 13 with the Eagle-aspen UHF antenna. The antenna is in indoor facing a wall (second floor). I don't have a pre-amp connected and the signal is split between the TV and the HTPC. after a 25 ft run of RG-6. I will have to try connecting directly without a splitter and a shorter run of RG-6 to see whether it may help or not. But for this I may have to relocate the TV to a different place. I am in Franklin Twp of NJ (about 32-33 miles from ESB). All the other channels are coming fine and are stable. I know, I may have to get a VHF antenna. But having a VHF antenna indoor is little impractical. I have a balcony, which I can use though to place larger antenna.. but I think CM3016 will be too large. Also my TV doesn't have a signal meter. I am yet to do more troubleshooting using the Zenith DTT901 to get the best placements.


----------



## ghostie





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira_l* /forum/post/16653147
> 
> 
> I can't get 7,11 and 13 now and *I have a roof antenna!*
> 
> 
> I'm in upper Westchester and am using a Winegard SS-2000. It gets all the UHF and FM stations just fine. I'm hesitant to replace it with a big yagi only to find out that I still can't get 7,11 and 13.
> 
> 
> Is anyone in upper Westchester (on the Hudson River side) getting 7,11 and 13? What antenna are you using. Thanks!!!



If I'm not mistaken, the Winegard SS-2000 is a UHF-only antenna. Being that 7, 11, and 13 are VHF signals, it's makes perfect sense why you can't get those channels. I don't see how you can avoid getting an antenna that will support VHF as well. Perhaps combining it with rabbit ears?


When I bought my rooftop antenna last year, I was leaning toward a DB4-type UHF antenna. But I looked into the DTV transition specs and realized that 3 channels would remain in VHF. I scratch the UHF antenna plan and bought a traditional big 'ol yagi. Now, 7, 11 and 13 are actually my strongest signals.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16652147
> 
> 
> OK, so it looks like there's an antenna installation project in my future. Can anyone recommend a local antenna dealer (preferably in Dutchess, Orange or Westchester county).



After Greylock Electronics closed on Parker Avenue in Poughkeepsie I began going to their other store location in Kingston NY (Ulster County). I have no idea if the Kingston store is still open but they are still listed in the Yellow Pages.


Greylock Electronics

763 Ulster Ave

Kingston, NY 12401

(845) 338-7901


They carried a complete line of Channel Master antennas and all the mounting gear you could imagine. I carried a ten foot mast home on the roof of my car.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16653064
> 
> 
> They really screwed the pooch on this one!
> 
> 
> A lot of people use to get 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13 for twenty years with rabbit ears. The only time we didn't was after 9-11
> 
> 
> Not being able to get 7,11 and 13 without a roof top antenna is unacceptable!
> 
> 
> They kept pushing stb's and never mentioned that you may need a new antenna as well. I guess cable and sat are going to get a ton of new subs after all!



They did. It's the ideal stimulus package for cable/satellite services.


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghostie* /forum/post/16653266
> 
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, the Winegard SS-2000 is a UHF-only antenna. Being that 7, 11, and 13 are VHF signals, it's makes perfect sense why you can't get those channels. I don't see how you can avoid getting an antenna that will support VHF as well. Perhaps combining it with rabbit ears?
> 
> 
> When I bought my rooftop antenna last year, I was leaning toward a DB4-type UHF antenna. But I looked into the DTV transition specs and realized that 3 channels would remain in VHF. I scratch the UHF antenna plan and bought a traditional big 'ol yagi. Now, 7, 11 and 13 are actually my strongest signals.



Thanks!


It's funny...some places, including Winegard's own website do show this as a UHF only antenna. Yet, when I bought it last July, SummitSource listed it as a VHF/UHF antenna. I just got off the phone with SummitSource and they still show it that way. It is still picking up the FM radio band quite well from its perch atop my chimney at about 30 feet.


----------



## SubaruB4

For those trying to get 7, 11 and 13 with a UHF antenna you should leave the testing for people that live under 10 miles from the ESB..


Like for me I can't get 7, 11 or 13 just using my UHF silver sensor.. I get no signal on all 3 channels.


The people who live closer have a stronger signal so they can get away using a UHF.


I think I have it bad since my antenna is next to my Ham radio antenna so every 5 min when it transmits I get a break up on channel 5, 9 or 55-1


----------



## hancox

FYI - I'm getting 7,11,and 13 through my older CM4228, with a 7777 preamp, attic mounted. Now, I have LOS, but I'm also approaching 60 miles from ESB.


A newer model of this (4228-HD - ha!!!) is supposedly an upgrade for hi VHF.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16653694
> 
> 
> For those trying to get 7, 11 and 13 with a UHF antenna you should leave the testing for people that live under 10 miles from the ESB..
> 
> 
> Like for me I can't get 7, 11 or 13 just using my UHF silver sensor.. I get no signal on all 3 channels.
> 
> 
> The people who live closer have a stronger signal so they can get away using a UHF.
> 
> 
> I think I have it bad since my antenna is next to my Ham radio antenna so every 5 min when it transmits I get a break up on channel 5, 9 or 55-1



I, too have a Silver Sensor and until the transition everything was just fine!


I realize that living in the canyons of Manhattan, my situation and location are different from yours.


To get locked in reception for 7, 11 and 13, yesterday, I bought an inexpensive Terk TV1 set of rabbit ears, fed the Terk and the Silver Sensor through an old combiner (not a cheap splitter/combiner) I had in my "parts" box.


Since I'm close to the ESB (no LOS - surrounded by tall buildings and lots of steel) I won't use an amplified antenna.


It's a compromise, my reception is not as good as what I had, but I now can deal with the transition and its problems.


If you can, try a second antenna, as I did - or, although not a Terk fan in the past, that company has two indoor combo VHF/UHF antennas -

HDTVi - unamplified; and the HDTVa - amplified.


Hope this helps.


----------



## LenL

Just came back from my mom's and rescanned channels for her. She is getting 48 channels including WLIW with some breakup but still not bad. She is about 1/2 miles closer to the ESB than me (still about 29.5 miles out) and in a flat area and about 500 feet above sea level. All of the high VHF channels are coming in strong even with a UHF anntenna.


Her equipment is the same as mine except she is using an RCA converter box to a Sony analog TV. CM4228 antenna and 7777 preamp.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16653825
> 
> 
> I, too have a Silver Sensor and until the transition everything was just fine!
> 
> 
> I realize that living in the canyons of Manhattan, my situation and location are different from yours.
> 
> 
> To get locked in reception for 7, 11 and 13, yesterday, I bought an inexpensive Terk TV1 set of rabbit ears, fed the Terk and the Silver Sensor through an old combiner (not a cheap splitter/combiner) I had in my "parts" box.
> 
> 
> Since I'm close to the ESB (no LOS - surrounded by tall buildings and lots of steel) I won't use an amplified antenna.
> 
> 
> It's a compromise, my reception is not as good as what I had, but I now can deal with the transition and its problems.
> 
> 
> If you can, try a second antenna, as I did - or, although not a Terk fan in the past, that company has two indoor combo VHF/UHF antennas -
> 
> HDTVi - unamplified; and the HDTVa - amplified.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.




I don't know what antenna I should get but I will look for some..


What about this? I think it was talked about in this thread or someplace on here..


What would happen if I connected two Silver Sensors and both connected to a splitter then run it to my box?


I might replace my box if I get another set of converter box coupons because both of them expired.. I was going to try the Channel Master and the Dish network box.


my location when the RF is moved to UHF I have a multipath issues but it seems to be less of an issue at night.. I've been adjusting my antenna but I can't stick the antenna out more then what it is now or it has nothing to support it.



I sure has heck can't run a indoor antenna since my building is made from steel and about 6 inches thick of concrete. with the silver sensor indoors I get no signal on all channels that are on UHF.


I wish I did not have these 50Ft tall trees here I have just a narrow way without a tree


this Terk HDTva is it a powered antenna? I only ask because I HAVE to have the antenna outside so far my Zenith silver sensor has been ok for the 9 months it's been outside. It's been so long I can't remember what the gain is on it.


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/16652147
> 
> 
> OK, so it looks like there's an antenna installation project in my future. Can anyone recommend a local antenna dealer ...
> 
> Anyway, I'd appreciate any suggestions.



Short of Radio Shack, Home Depot, Lowes, and Best Buy your only "local" option for a parts only source may be Greylock Electronics in Kingston, NY


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16654005
> 
> 
> I don't know what antenna I should get but I will look for some..
> 
> 
> What about this? I think it was talked about in this thread or someplace on here..
> 
> 
> What would happen if I connected two Silver Sensors and both connected to a splitter then run it to my box?
> 
> 
> I might replace my box if I get another set of converter box coupons because both of them expired.. I was going to try the Channel Master and the Dish network box.
> 
> 
> my location when the RF is moved to UHF I have a multipath issues but it seems to be less of an issue at night.. I've been adjusting my antenna but I can't stick the antenna out more then what it is now or it has nothing to support it.
> 
> 
> 
> I sure has heck can't run a indoor antenna since my building is made from steel and about 6 inches thick of concrete. with the silver sensor indoors I get no signal on all channels that are on UHF.
> 
> 
> I wish I did not have these 50Ft tall trees here I have just a narrow way without a tree
> 
> 
> this Terk HDTva is it a powered antenna? I only ask because I HAVE to have the antenna outside so far my Zenith silver sensor has been ok for the 9 months it's been outside. It's been so long I can't remember what the gain is on it.



I wouldn't connect a second Silver Sensor!


First, if you're having trouble receiving Hi-VHF stations - 7, 11 and 13 - this is where the Silver Sensor is deficient. You need an antenna that delivers

Hi-VHF - that's it.


Second, there are DYI projects of mounting two Silver Sensors exactly

side-by-side and using identical lengths of coax. Fuhgetaboutit!


As I already stated, the Terk HDTVa is amplified (powered).


If an additional antenna must be placed outdoors, don't know how any Terk would do. I would not try the amplified version outside.


----------



## ayoldguy1

Hi-

I rescanned last nite (was away for the weekend) and everything seemed fine, though channel 11.1 broke up a lot until I extended my VHF dipoles on my Terk HDTVi more and rotated the antenna around until I got a good signal. 13 and subchannels still do not even come in at all unless I turn the Terk around completely the other way. Annoying.

Anyway, I'm experiencing something weird. When I now change the channel from, say 2.1 to 4.1 (not exclusive to these channels tho), or back (one press of the Ch +or- button), I usually have to press it again until I actually get the picture and channel up on the screen. When I press once from 2.1 to 4.1, I'll see "4.1 WNBC" on the screen but will get nothing. I press again, see "4.1 WNBC" again, wait a split second, and get a picture.

I'm in Kew Gardens Hills, Queens, zip 11367.


What gives here? I see this on both the TV remote (Panasonic 50TH-PZ800U) and my Harmony 1.

Thanks.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ayoldguy1* /forum/post/16654399
> 
> 
> Hi-
> 
> I rescanned last nite (was away for the weekend) and everything seemed fine, though channel 11.1 broke up a lot until I extended my VHF dipoles on my Terk HDTVi more and rotated the antenna around until I got a good signal. 13 and subchannels still do not even come in at all unless I turn the Terk around completely the other way. Annoying.
> 
> Anyway, I'm experiencing something weird. When I now change the channel from, say 2.1 to 4.1 (not exclusive to these channels tho), or back (one press of the Ch +or- button), I usually have to press it again until I actually get the picture and channel up on the screen. When I press once from 2.1 to 4.1, I'll see "4.1 WNBC" on the screen but will get nothing. I press again, see "4.1 WNBC" again, wait a split second, and get a picture.
> 
> I'm in Kew Gardens Hills, Queens, zip 11367.
> 
> 
> What gives here? I see this on both the TV remote (Panasonic 50TH-PZ800U) and my Harmony 1.
> 
> Thanks.



I know what you are saying. I can actually get a fair signal for channel 11 but then I completely lose channels 7 and 13. Also since the antenna is facing away from the window I lose many of the UHF channels too. If channel 11 is on the ESB then I should get it in the same spot I get channels 7 and 13.


Also my Toshiba Regza sometimes does that if I change the channels too quickly. Sometimes rarely it does not even lock in and I have to change the channel, wait a couple of seconds and change it back.


----------



## SnellKrell

"If channel 11 is on the ESB then I should get it in the same spot I get channels 7 and 13."


It has been mentioned countless time on this thread that there is no guarantee that different stations, broadcasting on different frequencies, having different levels of power will allow you, with multipath and strong signals bouncing, to expect any uniformity concerning reception!


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16653115
> 
> 
> How long after 9/11 did it take for you to receive an acceptable picture? Consider that the changes which have occured here are on just about the same level technologically as what occured following 9/11. Many stations are broadcasting from new systems, some from alternate sites and now that real world conditions are underway there will be applications to the FCC to bring service back to normal levels with a short period of time. There are too many stations experiencing spotty coverage for improvements not to occur. Let's see waht this week brings. Unfortunately the switch took place on Friday afternoon and it's only Monday now. For me, while I was able to receive all area analog stations following 9/11 the image quality for many stations never returned to pre 9/11 levels. Work is going on and patience is the word for the day.



9-11 was unexpected

This switch over was PLANNED (used loosely)


Why would anyone that was receiving all the OTA signals just fine, think for a minute that on 6/13/09 they wouldn't?


That is my point!


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16654981
> 
> 
> 9-11 was unexpected
> 
> This switch over was PLANNED (used loosely)
> 
> 
> Why would anyone that was receiving all the OTA signals just fine, think for a minute that on 6/13/09 they wouldn't?
> 
> 
> That is my point!



Because what works on paper doesn't neccessarily translate to the real world. Adjustments and improvements will be seen. It's only Monday, which due to the weekend is almost like the day following the conversion. Many of these stations, especially the ones now on the upper VHF portion had no way of testing prior to the actual switch. I'm sure within a month or so you'll see most signal coverage will be back to normal. At my house about 25 miles north of the ESB I am only having trouble receiving WNJN and WNJU (I don't speak Spanish so it's no big deal and I do receive ch 39 with a solid signal from NY.). All other pre-conversion stations are well received with pictures that are much better than they were in analog mode. My antenna is mounted in my attic and uses a mast mounted pre-amp. I think I willl turn the antenna west and see where it gets me.


----------



## reddice

Like I said before I usually receive channels 7 and 13 better at night. Maybe they are boosting the power at night.


----------



## jpg7

At first post-transition I was disappointed. I managed to get the VHFs but the drop was noticeable (for 7, 11, 13 my ratings dropped from 88, 91, 68 to 53, 38, 44 respectively). Plus even WNJB dropped just enough (from 50 to 35) to be on the edge.


I had previously arranged things so that I could get the critical channels well (for me that is 13, 31, and 58) plus all the majors and Spanish channels. Now with the VHF signal drops and the fact that 41 was backed up on 68.2 (which helps Brooklyn a lot) I was free to try different things.


Lo and behold in another room I found a new sweet spot. I lost 41 and my 31 signal strength dropped to a still-acceptable 45 but in exchange I got all the VHFs at around 70 plus WMBC 63 and, for the first time ever, WLIW.


I'm using a plain-old rabbit ears (VHF-style) in a V-shape to boost UHF. The magic spot is with the antenna lying on the floor. It is by a window and the walls are thinner on that side.


When I was trying things I tried the rabbit ears straight as a half-wave dipole. That boosted my maximum signal strength on the VHF channels but, as has been seen here, I would gain on one channel and lose another in VHF. It also degraded UHF reception somewhat.


One last thing, for an extra WLIW signal boost I found that laying a metal rod (like a screwdriver) across the aperture of the antenna but not touching the rods helped me boost and lock in the signal (from 32 and pixellated to 36-45 and rock-solid). It boosted most other signals slightly as well. However, that cost me WPXN (which from analog days was strong but highly-susceptible to multipath).


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16655080
> 
> 
> Like I said before I usually receive channels 7 and 13 better at night. Maybe they are boosting the power at night.



unlikely - boosting power at night

more likely - atmospheric conditions or lack of sunlight


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16654131
> 
> 
> I wouldn't connect a second Silver Sensor!
> 
> 
> First, if you're having trouble receiving Hi-VHF stations - 7, 11 and 13 - this is where the Silver Sensor is deficient. You need an antenna that delivers
> 
> Hi-VHF - that's it.
> 
> 
> Second, there are DYI projects of mounting two Silver Sensors exactly
> 
> side-by-side and using identical lengths of coax. Fuhgetaboutit!
> 
> 
> As I already stated, the Terk HDTVa is amplified (powered).
> 
> 
> If an additional antenna must be placed outdoors, don't know how any Terk would do. I would not try the amplified version outside.



As stated before I don't have any issues with 7, 11 or 13 I all get a 90-95% signal matter of fact my insignia AKA LG box will give me a full solid signal tone when I check.. As I sated before and I think you and someone else told me I could go back to using my roof antenna since the roof antenna here is only VHF and since it's direction has not changed I get a perfect signal.


I just have issues with any UHF stations like right now as I type this WWOR is breaking up every 25 or so seconds then the signal level comes back to lock for another 5 seconds or so...


I don't think this silver sensor is amplified at least checking online so far.



*edit I have some Sony rabbit ears with a twin lead I might be able to use.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16655209
> 
> 
> unlikely - boosting power at night
> 
> more likely - atmospheric conditions or lack of sunlight



Yes it's atmospheric conditions I don't know how many here Dx but it's better to do it at night


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16653235
> 
> 
> I was out the whole weekends, so I didn't had time to try lot of antenna locations. But whatever I was able to try last night, I am not getting 7, 11 and 13 with the Eagle-aspen UHF antenna. The antenna is in indoor facing a wall (second floor). I don't have a pre-amp connected and the signal is split between the TV and the HTPC. after a 25 ft run of RG-6. I will have to try connecting directly without a splitter and a shorter run of RG-6 to see whether it may help or not. But for this I may have to relocate the TV to a different place. I am in Franklin Twp of NJ (about 32-33 miles from ESB). All the other channels are coming fine and are stable. I know, I may have to get a VHF antenna. But having a VHF antenna indoor is little impractical. I have a balcony, which I can use though to place larger antenna.. but I think CM3016 will be too large. Also my TV doesn't have a signal meter. I am yet to do more troubleshooting using the Zenith DTT901 to get the best placements.



We get all the main station with the Terk 50. Stations I wanted to get with the Clearstream C2 (50.1, 63.1, 66.1 54.1, 21.1)


Well Disappointment the C2 did NOT get any more stations and the Signal Strength was Identical to the Terk -50 on every station, but Analog 60 came in a little better but not 100% clear. I tried moving the C2 to every window and door area. Also the C2 was more prone to the way it was pointing.


Clearly for us the Terk-50 was/is the best choice.


I did alot of pre-dd on this and I thought I was prepared. I am really disappointed. I am not convinced a C4 would work either. In our case. Plus that is too big for her apartment.


The GOOD news for people looking at the C2. The VHF Channels came in very strong 80 to 95. Of course we are just 7 miles away. I do not know what farther distance will do to the C2.


So I guess I got to return the C2. I really didn't want to do that.


Well she has the same amount of stations as pre-transition. 33 channels.


Let's hope 43.1 and 68.1 move to NYC soon.











PS I am not saying the C2 was bad, just the same as the Terk-50 I bought 10 years ago.


----------



## dm145

Looks like NYC is not alone:


ABC, FCC Working on DTV Reception Issues

Network, commission addressing low power signals from WLS Chicago, WPVI Philadelphia

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/14/2009 8:17:09 PM MT

DTV Transition: Continuing Coverage


ABC will be working with the FCC to try and fix the reception problems at WPVI Philadelphia and WLS Chicago, said a spokeswoman for the ABC-owned station group.


Both stations have been experiencing reception problems following the shutoff of analog broadcasts on June 12. WLS was having difficulty reaching high-rise and downtown buildings, while Philadelphia viewers complained they couldn't find WPVI's new digital VHF signal.


"We always believed that we were given an insufficient power allocation, and we will work closely with the FCC to aleviate the situation," said WLS-TV President and General Manager Emily Barr. Julie Hoover, a spokeswoman for the ABC station group, said the situation is the same in Philadelphia.


FCC staffer Bob Radcliff said at a press conference Saturday that the FCC was aware of WLS' difficulties. He did not cite WPVI but said the FCC was doing some field analysis of how VHF stations "are experiencing problems in big cities." He said he has talked with stations and the commission is trying to figure out how to "adjust the technical parameters of these stations to improve their service in the cities."


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16656736
> 
> 
> Looks like NYC is not alone:
> 
> 
> ABC, FCC Working on DTV Reception Issues
> 
> Network, commission addressing low power signals from WLS Chicago, WPVI Philadelphia
> 
> By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 6/14/2009 8:17:09 PM MT
> 
> DTV Transition: Continuing Coverage
> 
> 
> ABC will be working with the FCC to try and fix the reception problems at WPVI Philadelphia and WLS Chicago, said a spokeswoman for the ABC-owned station group.
> 
> 
> Both stations have been experiencing reception problems following the shutoff of analog broadcasts on June 12. WLS was having difficulty reaching high-rise and downtown buildings, while Philadelphia viewers complained they couldn't find WPVI's new digital VHF signal.
> 
> 
> "We always believed that we were given an insufficient power allocation, and we will work closely with the FCC to aleviate the situation," said WLS-TV President and General Manager Emily Barr. Julie Hoover, a spokeswoman for the ABC station group, said the situation is the same in Philadelphia.
> 
> 
> FCC staffer Bob Radcliff said at a press conference Saturday that the FCC was aware of WLS' difficulties. He did not cite WPVI but said the FCC was doing some field analysis of how VHF stations "are experiencing problems in big cities." He said he has talked with stations and the commission is trying to figure out how to "adjust the technical parameters of these stations to improve their service in the cities."



Claims by the FCC to the contrary notwithstanding, very poor indoor reception on ch 2-13 is a nationwide problem. Most problems are in the metropolitan areas. Worst cases, ch 2-6.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16655080
> 
> 
> Like I said before I usually receive channels 7 and 13 better at night. Maybe they are boosting the power at night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unlikely - boosting power at night
> 
> more likely - atmospheric conditions or lack of sunlight
Click to expand...


the most likely culprit is the Sun, which tends to cause subtle radio interferences on the hemisphere on which it shines. on periods of heavy solar activity, the inferences can be substantial.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpg7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One last thing, for an extra WLIW signal boost I found that laying a metal rod (like a screwdriver) across the aperture of the antenna but not touching the rods helped me boost and lock in the signal (from 32 and pixellated to 36-45 and rock-solid).



yes. i've pointed that out a few times here. little things around the antenna can have a positive or negative impact on reception. people should really try everything before returning an antenna.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> He said he has talked with stations and the commission is trying to figure out how to "adjust the technical parameters of these stations to improve their service in the cities."



the million dollar question is: how much bureaucracy will be required for the problem to get addressed? will the FCC take 3 months to analyse it and another 3 to issue a permit?


i got my first 3 real antennas today (have been using a home-made loop so far): Terk HDTVa, Terk TV55 and RadioShack UFO. gonna try them tonight and report back the results.


----------



## mikepier

After the cut on 6/12, I have problems getting WPIX. No matter which way I position my outdoor antenna, I don't even get a blip on the screen. 7 and 13 come in fine.


Update:

Unbelievable. 5 minutes after posting this, I put on 11.1 and I get a picture @ about 40% strength. Its not cutting out, its steady, so I'm crossing my fingers.


----------



## SubaruB4

I had issues with WCBS today but I think that was due to the storms over in the New york area I was getting 30% now I'm back up to 75%


Also a question.. the Antennas for WCBS and WWOR and WPIX I would guess they are omnidirectional antennas but are they mounted at the very top of the ESB or do they mount them lower?


I plan on taking a trip to the building soon


----------



## SnellKrell

WCBS, WWOR and WNBC digital all share a UHF, non-directional Combiner antenna located 397 m. high on the antenna mast. These stations also employ a fill-in antenna panels located on the southeast corner of the ESB, between the 82nd and 85th floors.


WPIX, WABC and WNET digital now share a Hi-VHF, non-directional Combiner antenna located 405 m. high on the ESB antenna mast.


The very top of the antenna mast is currently not available - a great deal of analog antenna hardware must first be removed before stations have an opportunity to possibly migrate to better real estate.


Credit: Falcon_77


----------



## SubaruB4

And we can't remove that until WCBS and WNBC stops the nightlight right?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes!


But, just because old antennas will be removed, there's no guarantee that the Commission will say "yes."


Personally, with all the problems, I believe something positive will happen.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16657424
> 
> 
> After the cut on 6/12, I have problems getting WPIX. No matter which way I position my outdoor antenna, I don't even get a blip on the screen. 7 and 13 come in fine.
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> Unbelievable. 5 minutes after posting this, I put on 11.1 and I get a picture @ about 40% strength. Its not cutting out, its steady, so I'm crossing my fingers.



Oh we have similar situations. No ABC, WPIX has been meeah.... on and off with aweful pixellation, practically unwatchable at lot of times....











I'm so not familiar with this, but DTVintermods kindly suggested earlier that I get an antenna without amp. Do you think DB2 ?? will work? The one DTVintermods suggested was unfortunately no longer available. (too bad, i thought that one was kinda cute, lol! )



My issue is that like many others here, I haven't been able to get good VHF picutres post transition, meaning no ABC (7) at all and unstable WPIX (11), 13 is watchable but I noticed some occasional pixellation.


SO.... what antenna will be good? I live within 3 miles of the ESB. How long will it take for them to remove the analogue devices at the top of the mast and migrate those VHF channels to the top? Does the positions of the transmitters affect me at all given that I live so close to it?


Does anybody know when NBC and CBS's nightlight proof stuff ends? We need to rescan when it happens... right???


I have cable but for what I do on a daily basis as a hobby, it's critical that I have clear OTA reception for Channel 7.










Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC is scheduled to end Nightlight - 6/26


WCBS - 7/12


----------



## SubaruB4

Yes that's what I heard too


----------



## ukitali

So it seriously stinks that I get less channels now than before the switch to DTV. I'm about a mile south of the ESB and only get a handful of channels. 11 and 13 do not work at all. I have the Silver Sensor antenna. Is there anything else that would work better? I'm on the ground floor so I know my reception is not going to be perfect but this is ridiculous.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ukitali* /forum/post/16659104
> 
> 
> So it seriously stinks that I get less channels now than before the switch to DTV. I'm about a mile south of the ESB and only get a handful of channels. 11 and 13 do not work at all.



maybe you need an attenuator...


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16659395
> 
> 
> maybe you need an attenuator...



..or turn the Silver Sensor 90 degrees.


It doesn't pick up VHF in the forward-facing direction as it's boom acts more like an element than do the actual elements at VHF frequencies.


----------



## Bogney Baux




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/16658380
> 
> 
> Does anybody know when NBC and CBS's nightlight proof stuff ends? We need to rescan when it happens... right???



Incorrect. CBS and NBC are remaining on channels 33 and 28 so in theory a rescan will not be required when analog 2 and 4 shut down.


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16657781
> 
> 
> WCBS, WWOR and WNBC digital all share a UHF, non-directional Combiner antenna located 397 m. high on the antenna mast. These stations also employ a fill-in antenna panels located on the southeast corner of the ESB, between the 82nd and 85th floors.
> 
> 
> WPIX, WABC and WNET digital now share a Hi-VHF, non-directional Combiner antenna located 405 m. high on the ESB antenna mast.
> 
> 
> The very top of the antenna mast is currently not available - a great deal of analog antenna hardware must first be removed before stations have an opportunity to possibly migrate to better real estate.
> 
> 
> Credit: Falcon_77



Would moving upwards help WPIX, WABC and WNET if they stay at the current ludicrously low ERP?


Unless I misunderstand, the problem could only be solved by increasing their power or by moving to UHF (where they belong in the first place) and then increasing their power.


Am I wrong?


----------



## SnellKrell

As I understand it, ERP is based on transmitter output and position on a tower.


If so, keeping current transmitter output and moving higher would help - as would more power at current height.


There are problems with how much higher ERP the FCC will permit - the Commission's allocations don't allow much wiggle room and their coverage estimates are way inflated -they don't represent real world situations taking into account vertically oriented, steel-laden, urban areas with viewers using indoor antennas.


I can't see stations migrating back to UHF.


What I do hope for is the use of SFN/DTS. That is, additional transmission points in different parts of the city all using the same frequencies. This is what 7, 11 and 13

desperately need right now!!!!


WNJU has received Commission approval to fire-up an additional facility on 4TS to supplement the station's current main transmission location - Richland Tower, West Orange, NJ.


I hope that all those who are having problems will complain to the FCC - this is the way to get things improved.


----------



## SubaruB4

yeah I've been looking at the FCC maps as far as the analog and digital and what area it serves and the ERP what I have noticed is most of the digital stations run less power and are lower in elevation as well.


----------



## ira




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira_l* /forum/post/16653147
> 
> 
> I can't get 7,11 and 13 now and *I have a roof antenna!*
> 
> 
> I'm in upper Westchester and am using a Winegard SS-2000. It gets all the UHF and FM stations just fine. I'm hesitant to replace it with a big yagi only to find out that I still can't get 7,11 and 13.
> 
> 
> Is anyone in upper Westchester (on the Hudson River side) getting 7,11 and 13? What antenna are you using. Thanks!!!




The Winegard SS-2000 is a UHF antenna. I was also using a UHF-only antenna (Channel Master 4228HD) in Stamford, CT, and had lost the signals from channels 7, 11, and 13 until I reconnected an old attic-mounted VHF antenna. Now 7, 11, and 13 are just as strong as the other channels.


----------



## reddice

Channel 11 is a lost cause. Earlier I said I can get it fair if I move the antenna. Well I can barely get it at all now. The highest I can peak it is 50. I can get channel 7 and 13 in the high 60's sometimes with channel 7 being the strongest (got it yesterday in the 70's) but most of the time I can only peak channel 11 in the 20's. I don't understand if it is all on the same antenna I should be able to get all three channels the same signal strength.


----------



## jpru34

Anyone know when the ESB will finish removing the analog antenna and move up the digital antenna? I suspect this might increase reception for some folks.


----------



## gjvrieze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/16662352
> 
> 
> Anyone know when the ESB will finish removing the analog antenna and move up the digital antenna? I suspect this might increase reception for some folks.



I cannot say for all of the stations, but WABC for example is at the same height as analog 7 (they must be using the same antenna, that was used for the analog)

WCBS has filed to move up a ways. Which stations switched back to their analog RF channel, I would not expect a change in their case.


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira* /forum/post/16660515
> 
> 
> The Winegard SS-2000 is a UHF antenna.



Ira,


Well, it sure wasn't...and still ISN'T...advertised that way on several of the popular websites that sell it. But, based upon my experience, I would have to believe that is the case. It continues to pick up the nightlight broadcasts from Channel 2 and Channel 4 and does a good job with FM.


Anyway, time to either augment or replace it.


Thanks!


-- Ira


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gjvrieze* /forum/post/16662975
> 
> 
> I cannot say for all of the stations, but WABC for example is at the same height as analog 7 (they must be using the same antenna, that was used for the analog)
> 
> WCBS has filed to move up a ways. Which stations switched back to their analog RF channel, I would not expect a change in their case.




7, 11 and 13 are at the height of the previous Hi-VHF analogue Combiner.


----------



## LenL

A lot of this does not make any sense and the powers that be are not being communicative about it.


I agree with you. How can you possibly get 7 and 13 and not get 11? I feel you pain as I am in the same boat. After making some changes and only hooking up one TV I can now get 7.1 and 13.1. However 11.1 does not come in and I still can't get 9.1.


For me reception from time to time was great where I was getting all the NY channels with a signal strength in the mid 80's to up in the mid 90's. It was so good I could split the feed and send signal to 3 TVs!


Now I can only feed one TV and my peak signal for the NY stations is mid 70s!


Something stinks here!


Before the conversion was done DIGITAL signals should have been maximized and measured by the people pushing this conversion. You don't do the switch and screw people and make them wait for stattions to move their antenna or get more power.


If this was properly managed this would have all been in place BEFORE the cutover!


Screw 7, 11, 13 and 8! They should have been kept at UHF and then we would not have to deal with having both UHF and VHF antennas etc.


This was made far more complex than it had to be and some people should be fired! I suspect these people were paid under the table by satellite and cable companies to make sure people got screwed and were forced to pay for cable etc.. to watch TV!


Just a gut feeling but someone should do a little snoping into it!


----------



## foxycat




speedlaw said:


> All working here in upper westchester. I recorded most of the transitions, but Channel 7 was the only one that did anything other than an unannounced flash cut. Ch 7 showed "the switch" being pushed. Disappointing for the others....[/QUOTE=speedlaw;16648302]
> 
> 
> Thanks, Speedlaw,
> 
> 
> I did finally get all my channels, but not till a day or 2 after the transition. WNET-PBS is the most important to me.
> 
> 
> Much of this stuff is too technical for me. TV has never been as important to me as computers.
> 
> 
> 1-Why do the channels still come in on the old numbers, with the exception off some *-1'*s. Is that because the conv box translates them back to the old numbers?
> 
> 
> 2-Is anyone in lower Westchester getting WLIW and WNYE, which I could get before, but not now? As I said, I'm operating from an inaccessible VHF apt house rooftop antenna.
> 
> 
> 3-Can I add a bowtie to my set for the 2 missing stations? And how would I configure it for 2 inputs? Can I just reverse a splitter?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16663196
> 
> 
> Screw 7, 11, 13 and 8! They should have been kept at UHF and then we would not have to deal with having both UHF and VHF antennas etc.



the use of both bands is probably the biggest blunder of this whole transition plan ("plan" is here used loosely). what a mess!


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16663423
> 
> 
> the use of both bands is probably the biggest blunder of this whole transition plan ("plan" is here used loosely). what a mess!



Indeed. And another major blunder by the FCC was to assume rooftop antennas for planning purposes, totally and consciously ignoring today's reality of mostly indoor reception in the major population centers.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16663187
> 
> 
> 7, 11 and 13 are at the height of the previous Hi-VHF analogue Combiner.



That could explain why I can't get channel 11. Channel 7 and 13 analog were pretty clear but channel 11 analog was terrible. It was very ghostly and the colors were very washed out. Also analog channel 31 looked like that. When you compare that with a digital signal but take the very ghostly image as multipath that can explain why I can't get channels 11 and 31.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16663423
> 
> 
> the use of both bands is probably the biggest blunder of this whole transition plan ("plan" is here used loosely). what a mess!



I am finding for high VHF channels I can get 7 and 13 is it more reliable than UHF. UHF signals will keep fluctuating all the time as high VHF signals only fluctuate by a few points. I can get a signal in the high 50's to low 60's and it is stable. A UHF signal like that with channel 4 is it more unstable.


Now I have to agree that low VHF is terrible for digital. What were they thinking.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16661743
> 
> 
> Channel 11 is a lost cause. Earlier I said I can get it fair if I move the antenna. Well I can barely get it at all now. The highest I can peak it is 50. I can get channel 7 and 13 in the high 60's sometimes with channel 7 being the strongest (got it yesterday in the 70's) but most of the time I can only peak channel 11 in the 20's. I don't understand if it is all on the same antenna I should be able to get all three channels the same signal strength.



That's the point I don't get.. I checked and I'm 32 miles from the ESB and all three of those stations come in with the same signal.. maybe you are in a position not in favor of the radiation pattern of the antennas on the ESB.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira_l* /forum/post/16663032
> 
> 
> Ira,
> 
> 
> Well, it sure wasn't...and still ISN'T...advertised that way on several of the popular websites that sell it. But, based upon my experience, I would have to believe that is the case. It continues to pick up the nightlight broadcasts from Channel 2 and Channel 4 and does a good job with FM.
> 
> 
> Anyway, time to either augment or replace it.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> -- Ira




Yes on solidsignal it's listed as a UHF antenna as well..

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=SS-2000 


While this antenna may pick up VHF Ch 7-13 and the amplfier passes VHF/UHF, this antenna is engineered for UHF signals


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16663804
> 
> 
> Indeed. And another major blunder by the FCC was to assume rooftop antennas for planning purposes, totally and consciously ignoring today's reality of mostly indoor reception in the major population centers.



The FCC doesn't take receive antenna types into consideration when issuing a license. They look at field strength. As long as a station is able to penetrate an area with the proper level of RF, that's all they care about.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16664776
> 
> 
> The FCC doesn't take receive antenna types into consideration when issuing a license. They look at field strength. As long as a station is able to penetrate an area with the proper level of RF, that's all they care about.



But they cannot. Not even with rooftop antennas used by the FCC to get the minimum usable field strength you refer to. That is so because the FCC used an ideal receiver that does not exist and a propagation model that was never validated.


----------



## G1Ravage

I got my grandmother a digital converter box. She has 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13. But when I scan, it's not picking up 4 at all.


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16664368
> 
> 
> Yes on solidsignal it's listed as a UHF antenna as well..
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=SS-2000
> 
> 
> While this antenna may pick up VHF Ch 7-13 and the amplfier passes VHF/UHF, this antenna is engineered for UHF signals



Right. I saw that. I bought the antenna last July from SummitSource. It is still listed as VHF/UHF there.


I'm quite pleased with it as a UHF and FM antenna. Perhaps it does better with Low Band VHF, but for High Band VHF, it does not appear to receive at all.


The FCC had plenty of time to figure this out. The fact that NO stations were broadcasting in digital on VHF pre-transition is a gigantic blunder.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira_l* /forum/post/16665401
> 
> 
> ...The fact that NO stations were broadcasting in digital on VHF pre-transition is a gigantic blunder.



Your "fact" is in error. All pre-transition DTV stations were NOT UHF. WBBM in Chicago is one of the more egregious examples.


By my count done in less than a minute, around 210 DTV stations were on VHF pre-transition across the country.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16660308
> 
> 
> As I understand it, ERP is based on transmitter output and position on a tower.
> 
> 
> If so, keeping current transmitter output and moving higher would help - as would more power at current height.
> 
> 
> There are problems with how much higher ERP the FCC will permit - the Commission's allocations don't allow much wiggle room and their coverage estimates are way inflated -they don't represent real world situations taking into account vertically oriented, steel-laden, urban areas with viewers using indoor antennas.
> 
> 
> I can't see stations migrating back to UHF.
> 
> 
> What I do hope for is the use of SFN/DTS. That is, additional transmission points in different parts of the city all using the same frequencies. This is what 7, 11 and 13
> 
> desperately need right now!!!!
> 
> 
> WNJU has received Commission approval to fire-up an additional facility on 4TS to supplement the station's current main transmission location - Richland Tower, West Orange, NJ.
> 
> 
> I hope that all those who are having problems will complain to the FCC - this is the way to get things improved.



Height has nothing to do with ERP (Effective Radiated Power). ERP is the result of transmitter power input, feed-line losses, and the effective gain of the antenna. Nothing more or less.


Coverage area, on the other hand, is greatly affected by the height of the transmitting antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Perhaps it does better with Low Band VHF"


I own the 1000 - the exact antenna as the SS-2000 but without the built-in amplification.


The Square Shooter must be manipulated to possibly receive Lo-VHF.


Here are Winegard's own words "...by rotating the antenna from the horizontal plane to the vertical plane (usually 5-15 degrees)."


The antenna has been a big disappointment for me.


My indoor Silver Sensor has either matched it or bettered the Square Shooter's performance.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16665615
> 
> 
> Height has nothing to do with ERP (Effective Radiated Power). ERP is the result of transmitter power input, feed-line losses, and the effective gain of the antenna. Nothing more or less.
> 
> 
> Coverage area, on the other hand, is greatly affected by the height of the transmitting antenna.



"In radio telecommunications, effective radiated power or equivalent radiated power (ERP) is a standardized theoretical measurement of radio frequency (RF) energy[1] [2] using the non-SI unit dBd, and is determined by subtracting system losses and adding system gains. ERP takes into consideration transmitter power output (TPO), transmission line losses, connector losses, antenna directivity, *and height above average terrain* (HAAT). ERP is typically applied to antenna systems."


Obviously, I was misled!


----------



## foxycat

GI Ravage--


We're not getting much help from these guys with the configurable antennas. Maybe we can help each other.


I thought I had all the channels, now 2 (CBS) and 4 (NBC) go in and out, mostly out. Does your grandmother live in an apt house, and where?


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16665584
> 
> 
> Your "fact" is in error. All pre-transition DTV stations were NOT UHF. WBBM in Chicago is one of the more egregious examples.
> 
> 
> By my count done in less than a minute, around 210 DTV stations were on VHF pre-transition across the country.



Thanks! I did not know that. I do not believe there were any digital stations on VHF pre-transition _in New York City metro_. I cannot receive outside NYC metro from here.


Someone, please correct me if I am wrong about this as well.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira_l* /forum/post/16665906
> 
> 
> Thanks! I did not know that. I do not believe there were any digital stations on VHF pre-transition _in New York City metro_. I cannot receive outside NYC metro from here.
> 
> 
> Someone, please correct me if I am wrong about this as well.



WNJB-DT 8 (58-1) probably does not count, but it is in the New York DMA.


- Trip


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16665921
> 
> 
> WNJB-DT 8 (58-1) probably does not count, but it is in the New York DMA.
> 
> 
> - Trip



If I understand you correctly, it was broadcasting in digital on Channel 58 (UHF) pre-transition, so yes, it does not count. I presume it has transitioned to Channel 8 (VHF) now?


----------



## Trip in VA

No, they were 8 then and are 8 now. They were analog on 58, thus mapping to 58-1.


- Trip


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16665691
> 
> 
> 
> I own the 1000 - the exact antenna as the SS-2000 but without the built-in amplification.
> 
> 
> The Square Shooter must be manipulated to possibly receive Lo-VHF.
> 
> 
> Here are Winegard's own words "...by rotating the antenna from the horizontal plane to the vertical plane (usually 5-15 degrees)."
> 
> 
> The antenna has been a big disappointment for me.



Have you tried rotating it? Did it make a difference or it is still a bad VHF antenna?


----------



## SnellKrell

Pre-transition, WNJB-DT was already transmitting on Channel 8.


New Jersey lobbied the FCC claiming that the entire state, with exception of WWOR

(which orginally was licensed to New York City) didn't have a VHF television station.


Well, the station's dream came true and they will be facing the horrors of digital VHF in the New York Metro area.


Additionally, Channel 8 will be supplanting WNJN-DT, Channel 51 located in Monclair (much closer to NYC) and making that station superfluous.


It's incredible that New Jersey Public Television & Radio, which didn't have enough money to run its stations at full power and cried poverty to the FCC to allow it to operate at 50%, is foolishly spending precious funds, time and manpower to relocate at

4TS.


Sounds more like ego to me than sound business practices.


I have always felt that the "Mouse House" has made some "donations" to NJ Public Broadcasting.


But that is mere speculation on my part.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira_l* /forum/post/16666029
> 
> 
> Have you tried rotating it? Did it make a difference or it is still a bad VHF antenna?



Didn't do much for me.


I think I'm going to dump it!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16666055
> 
> 
> Pre-transition, WNJB-DT was already transmitting on Channel 8.
> 
> 
> New Jersey lobbied the FCC claiming that the entire state, with exception of WWOR
> 
> (which orginally was licensed to New York City) didn't have a VHF television station.
> 
> 
> Well, the station's dream came true and they will be facing the horrors of digital VHF in the New York Metro area.
> 
> 
> Additionally, Channel 8 will be supplanting WNJN-DT, Channel 51 located in Monclair (much closer to NYC) and making that station superfluous.
> 
> 
> It's incredible that New Jersey Public Television & Radio, which didn't have enough money to run its stations at full power and cried poverty to the FCC to allow it to operate at 50%, is foolishly spending precious funds, time and manpower to relocate at
> 
> 4TS.
> 
> 
> Sounds more like ego to me than sound business practices.
> 
> 
> I have always felt that the "Mouse House" has made some "donations" to NJ Public Broadcasting.
> 
> 
> But that is mere speculation on my part.



New Jersey politicians aren't the brightest bulbs out there so none of this is a surprise to those of us that live here. The irony of all this is that the state STILL technically only has one VHF station since WWOR is now UHF only.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16658424
> 
> 
> WNBC is scheduled to end Nightlight - 6/26
> 
> 
> WCBS - 7/12





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16658645
> 
> 
> Yes that's what I heard too





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bogney Baux* /forum/post/16660105
> 
> 
> Incorrect. CBS and NBC are remaining on channels 33 and 28 so in theory a rescan will not be required when analog 2 and 4 shut down.



Thanks!


----------



## afiggatt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16665584
> 
> 
> Your "fact" is in error. All pre-transition DTV stations were NOT UHF. WBBM in Chicago is one of the more egregious examples.
> 
> 
> By my count done in less than a minute, around 210 DTV stations were on VHF pre-transition across the country.



In Las Vegas, there were 5 stations on analog VHF and all 5 had digital broadcasts on VHF. It helps to be in a city 100s of miles from the nearest market, so they had a bunch of open VHF channels. All 5 Vegas VHF stations stayed on their pre-transition digital channels.


There was experience with digital VHF broadcasts. The problem is that in the big markets such as NYC, LA, Philly, DC, all the VHF stations had their digital broadcasts on UHF. So during the 10 years of the transition with an increasing number of people getting digital tuners over the years, many of them got UHF antennas and were not prepared for their local stations to move to upper VHF or in some cases lower VHF. Another reason for the reception problems for the flash cut digital VHF stations is that many of them are restricted in power to protect UHF stations that got a VHF digital channel for the transition period and kept it. Skimming through the flood of posts, a lot of analog viewers were using rabbit ears for VHF and it turns out that rabbit ears don't work very well for digital reception unless you have a strong stable signal.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afiggatt* /forum/post/16666533
> 
> 
> All 5 Vegas VHF stations stayed on their pre-transition digital channels.



Except KTNV, who moved from one VHF to another.


- Trip


----------



## andgarden

Seems like the new system didn't consider how many people actually use OTA TV. How many people in Manhattan or Center City Philly do you think can install an outdoor antenna?


----------



## G1Ravage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxycat* /forum/post/16665737
> 
> 
> GI Ravage--
> 
> 
> We're not getting much help from these guys with the configurable antennas. Maybe we can help each other.
> 
> 
> I thought I had all the channels, now 2 (CBS) and 4 (NBC) go in and out, mostly out. Does your grandmother live in an apt house, and where?



She lives on the first floor of a seven-story apartment building in North Flushing. The digital converter box is getting its source from a cable wire in the wall, which apparently gets its signal from a master antenna on the building's roof. Before the transition, she couldn't get 2, 4, 7, or 11. Some wouldn't scan at all, and others would come in incredibly choppy. Now she gets 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13 with good reception, plus a whole bunch of Spanish channels. But 4 won't scan in.


----------



## LenL

In reply to some who said a rescan is not necessary when 2 and 4 shut down their analog..... this is not true for everyone.


My Sharp TV has analog channels 2 and 4 as part of my channels available. When I use the remote to move up and down my channel line up 2 and 4 appear. if I don't rescan after they shut down I will still see the channels with a blank screen. So like many I will do a rescan and my TV will then exclude them.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16667249
> 
> 
> In reply to some who said a rescan is not necessary when 2 and 4 shut down their analog..... this is not true for everyone.
> 
> 
> My Sharp TV has analog channels 2 and 4 as part of my channels available. When I use the remote to move up and down my channel line up 2 and 4 appear. if I don't rescan after they shut down I will still see the channels with a blank screen. So like many I will do a rescan and my TV will then exclude them.



My Samsung HDTV's allow me to go into the menu and add or remove any channel I'd like. I've already done this with the LP stations which will remain analog and once NJN appears which should be some time between August and October I will do the same with all of the Spanish language facilities too. Personally, I see no reason to keep the Spanish language stations on my TV's considering the fact that I don't speak the language and have no interest in their programming. My RCA digital converter does not receive analog transmissions.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andgarden* /forum/post/16666656
> 
> 
> Seems like the new system didn't consider how many people actually use OTA TV. How many people in Manhattan or Center City Philly do you think can install an outdoor antenna?



OTA DTV is not for everyone...


----------



## LenL

Good point. That is another option and I can also do that with my TV. However the point is you have to take some action whether it is to be proactive and using your TV options to ignore these Analog stations or do a rescan (My preference since rescaning may pick up more digital stations).


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16667618
> 
> 
> OTA DTV is not for everyone...



Many buildings, especially older buildings have house antennas available for their tenants. It wouldn't surprise me to see many of these older systems brought back up to working order if enough tenants complain about loss of service.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16667774
> 
> 
> Good point. That is another option and I can also do that with my TV. However the point is you have to take some action whether it is to be proactive and using your TV options to ignore these Analog stations or do a rescan (My preference since rescaning may pick up more digital stations).



I can't speak for your TV, but I know that when I manually enter a channel which had not previosuly been picked up on a scan, the TV will enter that channel and it's sub channels into it's channel list. An example is WTBY. The scans did not pick up that channel but duiring a period of enhancement, by entering channel 27 manually on the remote control, the station now has been added to my list of channels. The same is true for channel 29/66 (WFME).


----------



## SnellKrell

I can only talk about the many apartments I've visited in Manhattan and the Riverdale area of the Bronx - and all have had their master antenna systems abandoned, then removed.


Cable and later satellite have replaced a landlord, coop board or condo providing television reception.


With a majority of apartment dwellers not interested in O-T-A reception, building owners and managers won't consider bringing back master antennas systems, especially in these financially difficult times


It ain't gonna happen, no how!


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16667828
> 
> 
> I can only talk about the many apartments I've visited in Manhattan and the Riverdale area of the Bronx - and all have had their master antenna systems abandoned, then removed.
> 
> 
> Cable and later satellite have replaced a landlord, coop board or condo providing television reception.
> 
> 
> With a majority of apartment dwellers not interested in O-T-A reception, building owners and managers won't consider bringing back master antennas systems, especially in these financially difficult times
> 
> 
> It ain't gonna happen, no how!



OTA television has two types of users in today's world.


For the middle class people who live in Manhattan and places like Riverdale which is a "more upscale" area of the Bronx, cable TV (or some other pay alternative) only makes sense due to the old problems of ghosting and other analog OTA anomalies. Due to the fact that most tenants in those facilities chose to give up OTA as an option years ago, those systems have come down and today, if your a cable subscriber you aren't going to give it up to receive an HD TV signal.



On the other hand, if you are in a lower income area, such as the Jerome avenue area of the south Bronx or one of the outer boroughs, there are many people who will depend on digital converters for their analog TV's and those are the people for whom the loss of OTA signal will prove an issue.



The other group of people who will suffer are those few who watch little TV and have not bothered upgrading their systems yet. I work with one of those. He actually came into work to watch a sporting event because his TV at home wasn't working due to the analog shut down. He had been asked for weeks prior to shut down if he bothered to get a converter and his answer was that he'd deal with it when he had to. That group is very small, numbers wise.




Actually, on boards like this there's two more groups and those are the Dxers. Those people who live 60 or more miles from a transmitter and expected to receive a solid digital picture because they were able to watch a stations analog signal (probably with lots of snow). To those who also are a relatively small group of people, give it time. The stations and the FCC are aware of the problems and are working to resolve them as I type this. The final group are those people using UHF antennas to receive VHF signals or VHF antennas to receive UHF signals.


UHF TV in the NYC area has been the place for educational and Spanish language broadcasts. Most English speaking people who receive their TV picture OTA haven't bothered with UHF TV reception issues and when they go into store to purchase the proper equipment most of the sales people are of little help when it comes to the technical needs to receive all area television signals now that UHF TV is a real player in the NY market.


----------



## kousikb

So I am without ABC, PIX for the last 3 days. Good that Lost is not in air this season. Thats the only show I follow. So I decided to ditch my eagle-aspen. Fortunately I have a balcony and I came to know about the flat coax cable coupler which can pass along the balcony door (can't drill through apartment wall). So I ordered CM3010 stealthantenna with CM3038 and mount accessories and also ordered the flat coax cable coupler. Total $69 shipped. Yes its expensive.. but i am hopeful.. now I will cover both VHF and UHF. The UHF gain for this antenna is sub-par compared to my eagle-aspen, that why I am getting the CM3038 in case it's needed. Hopefully, I will point the eagle-aspen towards philly and make use of it in conjunction with the stealthantenna. I haven't yet received the stealthantenna yet. Once I receive it I will post more results and pictures. Also after placing the order I noticed that in ebay, there is "hot" antenna being sold for about $45. I wish I had seen it earlier. The antenna is also a VHF/UHF antenna (and looks somewhat like Radioshack U75R) but it also comes with rotor built-in and with a IR remote control. Obviously this antenna looks like a cheap knock-off from china.. but it looks promising. I wish I would have seen this before I placed the order for the CM3010.


Here is one sample listing for the antenna I am talking about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AMPLIFIED-VHF-UH...3A1%7C294%3A50 

Also this appears smaller compared to the stealthantenna (30" wide)


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16668131
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one sample listing for the antenna I am talking about:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/AMPLIFIED-VHF-UH...3A1%7C294%3A50
> 
> Also this appears smaller compared to the stealthantenna (30" wide)



That antenna looks pretty interesting. Has anyone tried one like this?


Is that common, having power supplied to the rotor via the coax cable?


----------



## SubaruB4

I need a amplified UHF antenna what is a good one?


I don't think the silver sensor is amplified but only has a forward gain of like 2.4dB I think.


----------



## KML-224

The Silver Sensor is not an amplified antenna. I've had one of those before. It is very directional, though.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16668354
> 
> 
> That antenna looks pretty interesting. Has anyone tried one like this?
> 
> 
> Is that common, having power supplied to the rotor via the coax cable?



The stealthantenna with CM3038 is also powered by the coax. This was one reason I choose CM3010 because I can't run the power cable through the balcony door. The ebay antenna is really interesting its 30" wide and 22" long. Much smaller that the 52" CM3010. To receive ABC (channel 7) you only need a 32" wide dipole. So 30" is not bad would suffice I think. Also there are two more small-profile yagi style VHF-UHF antenna. RCA ANT751 and EZ HD antenna. These two are also small.


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16668084
> 
> 
> OTA television has two types of users in today's world.
> 
> 
> For the middle class people who live in Manhattan ...when it comes to the technical needs to receive all area television signals now that UHF TV is a real player in the NY market.



I live 50 miles north of NYC. In my area there are more groups who use OTA.

Those that refuse to pay for cable or satellite service for multiple reasons.

Those that do not have a clear shot at a satellite due to terrain.

Those that live in an area not serviced by any cable company.


----------



## Zamees

Before the transition to all digital tv, I was able to get all of the local channels in HD. Ever since the switchover, CBS seems to be lost with No Signal when I tune to that channel.


Is anyone located on the Upper Westside in Manhattan and able to receive CBS on channel 2.1?


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zamees* /forum/post/16669623
> 
> 
> Before the transition to all digital tv, I was able to get all of the local channels in HD. Ever since the switchover, CBS seems to be lost with No Signal when I tune to that channel.
> 
> 
> Is anyone located on the Upper Westside in Manhattan and able to receive CBS on channel 2.1?



Moved to appropriate local topic.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zamees* /forum/post/16669623
> 
> 
> Before the transition to all digital tv, I was able to get all of the local channels in HD. Ever since the switchover, CBS seems to be lost with No Signal when I tune to that channel.
> 
> 
> Is anyone located on the Upper Westside in Manhattan and able to receive CBS on channel 2.1?



Before the transition I could not get channel 2 at all. It was very weak. Now I have no problems getting it. It is channel 11 I can't get now.


----------



## LenL

I saw nothing wrong with Zamees post and out of curiosity wonder why you would feel it belongs elsewhere when we have been posting by the boatloads where we are located and what issues we have.


You mean if I post that I would like to know if anyone else at my specific location is having OTA issues it does not belong here?


----------



## Phil Hightech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16666062
> 
> 
> Didn't do much for me.
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to dump it!



I just wanted to stick up for my little square friend. The SS-1000 is the only antenna that works consistantly for me. I live in the Bronx and get a lot of multi-path interference from nearby buildings. I've tried many antennas: R/S corner yagi, CM4228 and a couple of different VHF/UHF combos. They all give me the same muli-path problem (which causes frequent reception drop outs). The SS-1000 totally solved the problem. It does not work to well on VHF however, so I use a separate VHF antenna and combine both signals in a 7777amp. FWIW


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16669855
> 
> 
> I saw nothing wrong with Zamees post and out of curiosity wonder why you would feel it belongs elsewhere when we have been posting by the boatloads where we are located and what issues we have.
> 
> 
> You mean if I post that I would like to know if anyone else at my specific location is having OTA issues it does not belong here?



I think it was posted somewhere else and moved into this forum.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TravKoolBreeze* /forum/post/16625511
> 
> 
> Today was the first day I was able to pick up WNYN-LP (39.1) digitally.



If you love commercials this is the best station, it is infuriating but what

can you do except to censor it on Edit scan.

39-1.2.3.4.5. the first two then the next 3 giving the same ads.

Some conv.boxes pick up also 39- 2017.2018.2019.2020 the first one is

usually the same as 39.1, all others are the same as -3.4.5.

Hard to believe that 39- has 9streams/9ch.programs, some are on Comcast, others from different localities, perhaps we could make arrange-

ments to have our own programm, for fee, shown on their commercial

stations enterprise.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16669855
> 
> 
> I saw nothing wrong with Zamees post and out of curiosity wonder why you would feel it belongs elsewhere when we have been posting by the boatloads where we are located and what issues we have.
> 
> 
> You mean if I post that I would like to know if anyone else at my specific location is having OTA issues it does not belong here?



No, not at all. Exactly the opposite.


Zamees comment was originally a new topic in the HDTV Technical Forum. I simply merged it with this topic, where it will get the best replies from others in his/your area.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16670024
> 
> 
> I think it was posted somewhere else and moved into this forum.



Correct.


----------



## mikepier

Today I notice I'm able to get WLNY 55.1 with a pretty good signal. It's the first time since the cut on Fri I'm able to get it, so I don't know if they did something different at the transmitter today.

Still intermittent problems with WPIX


----------



## Luffy

Today I finally checked my OTA channels and wow did they ever screw everything up for me. I am very happy they delayed the switch to June cause if they did it in Feb I couldn't have recorded anything.


I use to be able to get 2,4,5,7,9,11,21 without needing to really move my indoor antenna around much, now I get 5 and 9 only. I barely can get 2, 4 and 21. Both 7 and 11 have completely disappeared. As I understand it 7 went from UHF to VHF so it's pretty much gone from my system like how I never could get 13 cause it's in the VHF range. 2 changed from 68 IIRC to 33 so for me it went from one of my best channels to basically not really being there.


I am all for the digital switch but for YEARS the HDTV channels were set and working properly then at the last minute they change them around. Who was the idiot that thought that up? He should be fired at the very least.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16668084
> 
> 
> OTA television has two types of users in today's world.



your right, there are two kinds of users:


Those that had NO problem receiving OTA signals before the cut over

and

Those that can NO longer receive OTA from WABC, WPIX and WNET after the cut over


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luffy* /forum/post/16672013
> 
> 
> I am all for the digital switch but for YEARS the HDTV channels were set and working properly then at the last minute they change them around. Who was the idiot that thought that up? He should be fired at the very least.



It wasn't a last minute thing regarding final channel assignments. It goes back at least 2 years. See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=823166


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luffy* /forum/post/16672013
> 
> 
> Today I finally checked my OTA channels and wow did they ever screw everything up for me. I am very happy they delayed the switch to June cause if they did it in Feb I couldn't have recorded anything.
> 
> 
> I use to be able to get 2,4,5,7,9,11,21 without needing to really move my indoor antenna around much, now I get 5 and 9 only. I barely can get 2, 4 and 21. Both 7 and 11 have completely disappeared. As I understand it 7 went from UHF to VHF so it's pretty much gone from my system like how I never could get 13 cause it's in the VHF range. 2 changed from 68 IIRC to 33 so for me it went from one of my best channels to basically not really being there.
> 
> 
> I am all for the digital switch but for YEARS the HDTV channels were set and working properly then at the last minute they change them around. Who was the idiot that thought that up? He should be fired at the very least.



I agree. Major screw up. Probably wouldn't be tolerated at most places of employment!


----------



## lexus2108

I thought the Stations where going full Power? Does not seem like it at all


----------



## nordloewelabs

- RadioShack UFO (Amp)

- Terk HDTVa (Amp)

- Terk TV55 (Amp)


for the last 3 days i've been playing with the 3 antennas listed above and now i'm ready to report my experiences. i tried them at several different spots and in several different configurations.


i can say with certainty that the TV55 is useless in my place (8mi north of ESB). it performed poorly on the UHF band and it could never receive the 3 VHF channels. also, i'd like to point out that the TV55's shape and length make it somewhat inflexible for use indoors. i'm not saying this is a bad antenna.... i'm just saying it didnt suit my particular setup. the fact i live in a sort of valley makes reception rather difficult.


regarding the UFO and the HDTVa, *both performed well on the UHF band*, getting all major UHF channels! however, that was expected since my home-made loop had also worked great! either UHF is a more forgiving band, or these channels are being broadcast with adequate power....


the real test for HDTVa and UFO was the reception of the high VHF channels. well, *neither could receive ABC or CW*! on the other hand, i did (finally) get Thirteen!







the problem is, most of the time, Thirteen's signal ocillates between 0 and 50%. however, at 2 very particular spots, both antennas can receive PBS at a watchable level (40%). unfortunately, that requires very precise positioning and stretching of the dipoles (also, an 150 degrees angle works best). very annoying....it's like dealing with a goddamn celebrity! and this whole "circus" becomes pointless when the weather changes because the signal drops to zero, anyway.












well, anyone living within 10mi of ESB in Jersey or Brooklyn should get decent reception of channel 13.1 using the HDTVa or UFO. the UHF channels would probably look great even 15mi away! *the HDTVa is my favourite of the 3!* btw, i learned something interesting from this experience: amplifiers make a huge difference! i could not get 13.1 with the amps off!


so now i want to buy a separate (and stronger) amplifier to use in place of the one bundled with the Terk HDTVa. could you guys recommend a good amp for use indoors? i think i should get one on which the level can be adjusted so to avoid overloading the converter box. should i get 10, 20 or 30db? any suggestions?


i think i'll try one more antenna as well.... one with more emphasis on the VHF band -- since it's clear to me that UHF is a no-brainer in my location. does anyone here have experience with the Winegard HD-1080 ? do you guys agree that it should perform better (than the HDTVa/UFO) on high VHF?


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luffy* /forum/post/16672013
> 
> 
> Today I finally checked my OTA channels and wow did they ever screw everything up for me. I am very happy they delayed the switch to June cause if they did it in Feb I couldn't have recorded anything.
> 
> 
> I use to be able to get 2,4,5,7,9,11,21 without needing to really move my indoor antenna around much, now I get 5 and 9 only. I barely can get 2, 4 and 21. Both 7 and 11 have completely disappeared. As I understand it 7 went from UHF to VHF so it's pretty much gone from my system like how I never could get 13 cause it's in the VHF range. 2 changed from 68 IIRC to 33 so for me it went from one of my best channels to basically not really being there.
> 
> 
> I am all for the digital switch but for YEARS the HDTV channels were set and working properly then at the last minute they change them around. Who was the idiot that thought that up? He should be fired at the very least.



It would help if people like you said where you lived. Are you in Manhattan? One of the outer boroughs? New Jesey? CT? Westchester? Long Island?


----------



## NYCLA*

Live in Astoria, Queens. Can get all major channels and sub-channels crystal clear *except* WLIW 21 - no signal at all. Wondering what other people's reception of WLIW is like that live within the five boroughs. I know at least one person in Brooklyn is getting WLIW great, but has another problem that I don't have.


My antenna is a set of rabbit ears and my reception is flawless except for WLIW 21. Can't figure out why in Astoria, Queens, I would get no signal at all. *Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero!*


----------



## jpru34

Anyone else having problems picking up ION today? I am having issues picking it up, presumably b\\c of the rain. Anyone know where they broadcast from? Is it the ESB? Also, do they have any plans to increase their power or otherwise do anything to make their transmission more reliable.


(I am able to pick up every single station reliably this morning except ION so I doubt it has anything to do with my antenna or setup)


Thanks in advance!


One more question - Does anyone know if ION is on the Combiner?


----------



## dagger666

I been in Florida and missed the analog turn off in NY so how did it go? I remember 7-13 were supposed to switch back fron UHF to VHF and channel 21 to 20 and 31 to 30 so did any of that happen?


----------



## jbjbjbjb

I'm in Rockland County, NY about 35 north of NYC. I have a Radio Shack Yagi (Model: U-75R/Catalog #:15-2160) mounted in a garage attic. I'm getting all the stations including Ch 7 (digital VHF- a strong 60%) except I can't pull in CH 11 or 13. Is anyone in my area able to pick up Ch 11 or 13?


----------



## steve-avs

I live in Carmel, Putnam County, about 45-50 miles north of the ESB. I have pretty much line of sight so I believe what my TV reports as signal level is reasonably good for comparing power levels from day to day.


My TV needs a signal level greater than 30 for reliable reception. Comparing this past weeks signals with those for the 2008-2009 TV season:


-channels that haven't changed frequency:

4.x is broadcasting at lower power; still reliable; signal average 82 to 65.

5.x is broadcasting at lower power; still reliable, signal average 82 to 65.

9.x is broadcasting at lower power: now unreliable, signal average 65 to 33.

24.x is broadcasting at lower power; still reliable, signal average 70 to 45.

41.x is broadcasting at lower power; almost completely unreliable, signal average 70 to 25.

47.x is broadcasting at lower power; still reliable, signal average 60 to 45.


-channels that have changed frequency:

7.x still reliable; signal average 73 to 55.

11.x not 100% reliable; signal average 55 to 35.

13.x now reliable; signal average 0 to 48.

(I can't compare power levels with the VHF channels since I use a different antenna for VHF.)

2.x still reliable; signal average 70 to 65.

31.x slightly better but still too many breakups; signal average 32 to 33.

68.x a strange one. For a few days very reliable with signal average of 65. The last couple of days 8.


There have been numerous times late a night when some channels have appeared to stop broadcasting, or have at least dropped power levels to the point where they barely register.


I think this all suggests that the NYC DTV transition is still a work in progress and that the wisest approach from us is to be patient. I do expect the UHF power levels will come back to the pre-transition levels and I expect the VHF channels will increase power as well.


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16675773
> 
> 
> I'm in Rockland County, NY about 35 north of NYC. I have a Radio Shack Yagi (Model: U-75R/Catalog #:15-2160) mounted in a garage attic. I'm getting all the stations including Ch 7 (digital VHF- a strong 60%) except I can't pull in CH 11 or 13. Is anyone in my area able to pick up Ch 11 or 13?



I get 7-11-13 pretty much the same here in Croton NY, across the river. Of course, I have pretty much a line of sight to NYC-no ridges or hills. 95%, 92% and 92%. I have an antenna above the roof about ten feet.


They are very close in frequency, so if you get one, you should get the others....


2.1 is very weak-won't lock. Everything else is between 70% and 90 % and will lock.


2.1 must be running low power...even when it does lock I only see 30-50 %. Today's wet weather is not helping things.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/16675720
> 
> 
> I been in Florida and missed the analog turn off in NY so how did it go? I remember 7-13 were supposed to switch back fron UHF to VHF and channel 21 to 20 and 31 to 30 so did any of that happen?



21 was on 22 pre-transition. It is now back on 21 (not 20). 7 and 13 are now back broadcasting on VHF 7 and 13.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16675773
> 
> 
> I'm in Rockland County, NY about 35 north of NYC. I have a Radio Shack Yagi (Model: U-75R/Catalog #:15-2160) mounted in a garage attic. I'm getting all the stations including Ch 7 (digital VHF- a strong 60%) except I can't pull in CH 11 or 13. Is anyone in my area able to pick up Ch 11 or 13?



Yes, I have a Radio Shack VU-90 antenna with pre-amp mounted in my attic and I receive Al the NY digital stations. My problem at the moment is with New Jersey Public television.


----------



## R.F. Burns

Turning the antenna a few degrees I am now able to detect WNJN's signal. Still no lock on video here however.


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16676842
> 
> 
> Turning the antenna a few degrees I am now able to detect WNJN's signal. Still no lock on video here however.



Same thing here. 50.1 is off axis for me, so it is my lowest signal. I had to replace all of my (old, questionable) splitters with new ones to get the sub-50% signal up to the current 67% which is lockable. My own fault, really, these splitters were collected one and another over time. They were replaced with properly terminated 4 way splitters.


I have two splitters before two sets, and three before two others. 50.1 does not make it out of three splitters, but is viewable if only split twice.


A combination of the signal loss from splitting and the fact that losses at 700 mhz are higher than the lower channels kills the "third split". All other channels come in at decent levels, even after the third splitter-the third splitter also has another 50-70 feet of line, for the total worst case Scenario.


I have a RS fringe antenna VU -90 on the roof, overkill for my location, so I have S/N to spare. If not split, most stations are 100%.


Except on Ch 2.1 today. Still no lock. All other channels are 70-90 and clear.


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16676842
> 
> 
> Turning the antenna a few degrees I am now able to detect WNJN's signal. Still no lock on video here however.



WNJB DT(New Brunswick ) will be moving to the antenna on top of Times square on VHF ch 8 in Sept-Oct ... That may clear things up for you.


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 8!


----------



## Luffy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16675030
> 
> 
> It would help if people like you said where you lived. Are you in Manhattan? One of the outer boroughs? New Jesey? CT? Westchester? Long Island?



I live on Long Island in New Hyde Park, but that really is kind of irrelevant because if they had just left the channels as they were pre DTV switch and freed up the old VHF spectrum, people like myself who have had a HDTV OTA receiver since about 1999 wouldn't have had any issues since we already knew the quirks of the reception of OTA HDTV. Now after 10 years I am back to square one, looking for an antenna, and that shouldn't have happened.


----------



## morebassplease




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Broderick* /forum/post/2411774
> 
> 
> Over the last week or two, my reception of CBS & Fox has not been great. I used to get both of these stations at a solid 100 signal strength (Toshiba DST-3000). Now they are both fluctuating between high 70's low 80's.
> 
> 
> I'm in western Suffolk County. Has anyone else been having reception problems lately?



Yeah, my reception has been not so great as well. Low 80s.


----------



## kousikb

NJN New Brunswick(WNJB 58.x, RF 8), NJN Montclair(WNJN 50.x) and NJN Trenton(WNJT 52.x) share the same programming. If you are interested on getting NJN programming you can point towards Montclair and get the signals reliably. In fact I am 7-8 miles away from the WNJB tower and I have kept my antenna pointed towards NYC. I don't get WNJB digital (its I think 60 degree north to the antenna's current direction). However, I still get the off-axis channels like WNJN and WMBC because of the wider beam width of the antenna. Of course with narrow beam-width antennas like U75R or Terk HDTVa/HDTVi , this will not be possible. So for people living in 5 boroughs of NY, your best bet (till WNJB moves to NY) of receiving NJN should be the the WNJN Montclair by either moving the antenna (physically or by rotor) or coupling multiple antennas. If your ATSC tuner has capability to input physical channel number, then it should be really easy to tune WNJN Montclair.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/16675636
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems picking up ION today? I am having issues picking it up, presumably b\\c of the rain. Anyone know where they broadcast from? Is it the ESB? Also, do they have any plans to increase their power or otherwise do anything to make their transmission more reliable.
> 
> 
> (I am able to pick up every single station reliably this morning except ION so I doubt it has anything to do with my antenna or setup)
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> One more question - Does anyone know if ION is on the Combiner?



I called ION and they stated that they already are broadcasting at full power. Oh well. Maybe they will do something in the future to make their broadcast more reliable.


----------



## nordloewelabs

has anything changed regarding ABC's transmission power? i just tried it now now and, to my surprise, i'm getting it about 30% signal strength. given this relatively bad weather, this is pretty good.


----------



## jbjbjbjb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/16678464
> 
> 
> I called ION and they stated that they already are broadcasting at full power. Oh well. Maybe they will do something in the future to make their broadcast more reliable.



I had ION last night but its gone now. Must be the weather.


----------



## jbjbjbjb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16675773
> 
> 
> I'm in Rockland County, NY about 35 north of NYC. I have a Radio Shack Yagi (Model: U-75R/Catalog #:15-2160) mounted in a garage attic. I'm getting all the stations including Ch 7 (digital VHF- a strong 60%) except I can't pull in CH 11 or 13. Is anyone in my area able to pick up Ch 11 or 13?



Here's a trick I just did. I crumpled two pieces of aluminum foil into softball size balls, went up the attic and attached them on the ends of the last reflector ( the one where the cable attaches to). Ch 7 went from 58% to 76% and Ch11 went fron 0 to 66%. The other UHF channels stayed the same.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16679200
> 
> 
> Here's a trick I just did. I crumpled two pieces of aluminum foil into softball size balls, went up the attic and attached them on the ends of the last reflector ( the one where the cable attaches to). Ch 7 went from 58% to 76% and Ch11 went fron 0 to 66%. The other UHF channels stayed the same.



I use this method. Seems to work best. Guess the tinfoil antenna is back. Man somethings should be left in history

 

Only problem happens when you use the microwave.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luffy* /forum/post/16677752
> 
> 
> I live on Long Island in New Hyde Park, but that really is kind of irrelevant because if they had just left the channels as they were pre DTV switch and freed up the old VHF spectrum, people like myself who have had a HDTV OTA receiver since about 1999 wouldn't have had any issues since we already knew the quirks of the reception of OTA HDTV. Now after 10 years I am back to square one, looking for an antenna, and that shouldn't have happened.



The pre-transition arrangement of channels was always temporary.


----------



## jbjbjbjb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16679200
> 
> 
> Here's a trick I just did. I crumpled two pieces of aluminum foil into softball size balls, went up the attic and attached them on the ends of the last reflector ( the one where the cable attaches to). Ch 7 went from 58% to 76% and Ch11 went fron 0 to 66%. The other UHF channels stayed the same.



It works best if you crumple the foil around your fist and make a hollow ball. If the ball is too crumpled and not hollow it's not as effective.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16679571
> 
> 
> It works best if you crumple the foil around your fist and make a hollow ball. If the ball is too crumpled and not hollow it's not as effective.



He he ... and if you wear a pickle bucket on your head, use the handle for a chinstrap ... and line the bucket with tin foil ...that'll keep the digital signals from making you buy things you see on TV.


Tin foil? Really? Can it really help?


I remember making little aluminum foil flags to put on the ends of a dipole antenna back in the 80s, but I just don't know about it now.


----------



## foxycat

*I was around for not-so-early TV in the '50's. It was awful; we played with the rabbit ears and adjustment knobs constantly. On the other hand, with my last tubed TV in the early '70's, I was able to do my own repairs myself by replacing tubes.







.*



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16675436
> 
> 
> Too bad some of our fellow board posters weren't around in the early days of radio & television otherwise maybe they'd remember what TV reception was really like before solid state electronics and all that analog became after 50 years of developement.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16679153
> 
> 
> I had ION last night but its gone now. Must be the weather.



have not got ION since Tuesday of this week.. with the rain a lot of channels wont come in now like 4-1 (5-1 works fine) and 55-1 seems to be hit or miss but weather will cause me not to get the channel.


----------



## foxycat

RE: WLIW-21:

I'm in lower Westchester, with an apt house rooftop antenna. I have all the usual channels from 2-13. I was getting WLIW-21, although not perfectly clearly, before the transition. Now it's completely gone. Do you have any info whether they're broadcasting on another channel, or are improving their signal later? Are they on UHF now?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16675067
> 
> 
> Live in Astoria, Queens. Can get all major channels and sub-channels crystal clear *except* WLIW 21 - no signal at all. Wondering what other people's reception of WLIW is like that live within the five boroughs. I know at least one person in Brooklyn is getting WLIW great, but has another problem that I don't have.
> 
> 
> My antenna is a set of rabbit ears and my reception is flawless except for WLIW 21. Can't figure out why in Astoria, Queens, I would get no signal at all. *Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero!*


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/16672060
> 
> 
> your right, there are two kinds of users:
> 
> 
> Those that had NO problem receiving OTA signals before the cut over
> 
> and
> 
> Those that can NO longer receive OTA from WABC, WPIX and WNET after the cut over




Because they want to use UHF antennas to try to get a VHF-Hi station from over 20 miles away.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxycat* /forum/post/16680532
> 
> 
> RE: WLIW-21:
> 
> I'm in lower Westchester, with an apt house rooftop antenna. I have all the usual channels from 2-13. I was getting WLIW-21, although not perfectly clearly, before the transition. Now it's completely gone. Do you have any info whether they're broadcasting on another channel, or are improving their signal later? Are they on UHF now?



Pre-transition, they were broadcasting on UHF 22 using PSIP 21, but now they are back on 21. I don't know anything else, but I've read that their transmitter isn't very tall.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16675773
> 
> 
> I'm in Rockland County, NY about 35 north of NYC. I have a Radio Shack Yagi (Model: U-75R/Catalog #:15-2160) mounted in a garage attic. I'm getting all the stations including Ch 7 (digital VHF- a strong 60%) except I can't pull in CH 11 or 13. Is anyone in my area able to pick up Ch 11 or 13?



You are using a uhf only antenna


You may get 11 & 13 if you add a VHF only antenna. But you would do even better if you get a vhf hi only & it will be much smaller than a vhf.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16680656
> 
> 
> Pre-transition, they were broadcasting on UHF 22 using PSIP 21, but now they are back on 21. I don't know anything else, but I've read that their transmitter isn't very tall.



Why don't they put a back up in NYC?


----------



## jpg7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16675067
> 
> 
> I know at least one person in Brooklyn is getting WLIW great, but has another problem that I don't have.
> 
> 
> My antenna is a set of rabbit ears and my reception is flawless except for WLIW 21. Can't figure out why in Astoria, Queens, I would get no signal at all. *Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero!*



Before the transition I hardly ever got a blip of WLIW. Afterwards, because I moved the rabbit ears antenna to another room and found a sweet spot, I now can get reception from 30 - 40.


I looked at the tvfool.com reception maps and I should be in a pretty weak spot for WLIW. At ground level they show me as 2Edge to the transmitter but I am high enough up in my building I think to get me LOS (at least ignoring tall buildings). I noticed that Astoria is 2Edge - I think that there are natural ridges in the way. You probably need to be quite high up to get past that.


----------



## nordloewelabs

interesting article from another thread:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *holl_ands* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> TVNewsDay reported "VHF Throws Wrench In DTV Transition":
> http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/20...aily.5/?page=1
> 
> I posted fol. info in the L.A. thread re VHF problems re VSWR & coverage prediction:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=16681206


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16637864
> 
> 
> The biggest problem I have with high VHF is I can get one station strong like channel 7 and then it makes channels 11 and 13 weak. When I make channel 13 stronger it makes channel 7 weak. Channel 11 is very weak. What I don't understand is that they are all broadcasting from the ESB. I should be able to get them all in the same position.



In case you still have problems with ch.11,(can't read all the threads), weak signal on ch.11 on signal meter reading produces most violent fluctua

tion in range of 70 points down to 5 to 0, ch.13 used to give 40 points fluc

tuation, now is solid.

Ch.11 with normal strength signal gives high PQ, consistent read, super.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16645504
> 
> 
> 34 is owned by CaribeVision, a Spanish-language TV network. They're on full-powered stations in Puerto Rico, but on a couple of LP stations in the US.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Though I don't habla espanol, I wish they were like 47-1 with ingles subtiles, the PQ and Audio are highQ.


----------



## SnellKrell

WCBS-DT, O-T-A is out for an hour - scheduled to be back at 4.


Obviously, TWC is connected by fiber and is carrying a signal.


DirecTV is out - has to be O-T-A method of receiving the station.


How dumb - Direct should also have fiber to the source.


----------



## SnellKrell

2 is back, earlier than expected.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16661743
> 
> 
> Channel 11 is a lost cause. Earlier I said I can get it fair if I move the antenna. Well I can barely get it at all now. The highest I can peak it is 50. I can get channel 7 and 13 in the high 60's sometimes with channel 7 being the strongest (got it yesterday in the 70's) but most of the time I can only peak channel 11 in the 20's. I don't understand if it is all on the same antenna I should be able to get all three channels the same signal strength.



2 questions - when you punch in signal meter read, does the Audio/sound

volume goes drastically down to barely audible? Other box that I have iNet-Tivax type the Audio remains unchanged, yours probably too.

2ndQ - what is the max.power, most boxes are Energy star 8w (as iNet) and or less, my second box Coship is 12w (also Goodmind), Cadence 18w.

It seems to me that boxes with less power have harder time to maintain

signal strength.

When Signal meter is on the Audio is barely audible, the electric power

from Audio is diverted to Video signal giving peeping sound but also helps to streamline or to enhance signal strength to push through circuitry to TV, thus

meter fluctuating 10-20points like 30 to 20-up over 30-down, the diverted power helps to stabilize signal level that even at 20 low quickly up to 30 there is no pixelation, once meter signal is gone the Audio sound returns to

normal strength, each time signal meter is on the Audio is barely audible.

The fact that this box has 12w consumption helps to Video-(Audio) output.


----------



## FrankH3rd

I visited my Dad in Queens Village yesterday and installed a digital converter and indoor antenna in his apartment. We were delighted to receive all NYC stations (except 31), and WLIW. See results below.


Location: Eastern Queens Village (Zip 11429), about 14 mi east of ESB, apartment building, fourth floor, eastern side of building (side away from Manhattan).


Equipment:

Antenna: RCA ANT111 (simple VHF rabbit ears/UHF loop, not amplified, $9 at Walmart). Antenna is located about 30" to left of tv, about 14 feet from outside wall of building)

Digital Converter: Magnavox TB100MW9


Results: With the indoor antenna located about 30" to the left of the TV, and about 4' off the floor, in a north-south orientation, the following stations were sucessfully scanned:

Ch 2.1

Ch 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4

Ch 5.1, 5.2

Ch 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3

Ch 9.1, 9.2

Ch 11.1, 11.2

Ch 13.1, 13.2, 13.3

Ch 21.1, 21.2, 21.3

Ch 25.1, 25.2

Ch 41.1

Ch 47.1


Signal strengths were in the weak to moderate range (18 to 32 on Magnavox signal meter)


As it turned out, we were lucky to locate the indoor antenna at a sweet spot in the apartment on the first scan. Moving the antenna around to find Ch31 was unsuccessful, and also impaired reception on some of the other channels.


Ch 7 had the best VHF signal strength, followed by Ch 13. Ch 11 was marginal and pixilated a lot, but a small 30 degree counter clockwise rotation eliminated the pixilation. Ch 13 signal increased with a 30 degree clockwise rotation. It should be noted that the rabbit ears should be extended only about 14" for vhf-hi channels, with a 'V' configuration. Extending the rabbit ear dipoles further resulted in a decrease in signal strength. I was pleasently surprised that the three VHF channels came in so good after reading so many posts from others in NYC about difficulties receiving these channels with indoor antennas. Having no other nearby high rise buildings to the west of my father's building may explain our good outcome.


I expected WLIW to be the strongest signal, since my Dad's apartment faces eastern Long Island, but it turned out to be the weakest. Moving the antenna even a few inches in an eastern or western direction caused reception to drop out.


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## nyctveng

picks up UHF great and VHF HI band (7, 9, 11, 13) well too !


http://www.buy.com/prod/pro-brand-di...202827678.html


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/16684920
> 
> 
> picks up UHF great and VHF HI band (7, 9, 11, 13) well too !
> 
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/pro-brand-di...202827678.html



Probably good for people living within 20 miles. But this doesn't work for me. I have the exact same antenna and I am 33 miles away. I used to get all NY channels (except WNET of course) before transition using this antenna. Anyway, I have rcvd the CM3030 and CM3038 today. I don't know, how big it is. I will post my findings.


----------



## Ken H

A number of off topic comments have been edited or deleted.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16684279
> 
> 
> 
> DirecTV is out - has to be O-T-A method of receiving the station.
> 
> 
> How dumb - Direct should also have fiber to the source.



Could be:

_Local television channels are transmitted over optical fiber links, Ku-band satellite uplink, microwave, *and conventional terrestrial transmission* to uplink centers located throughout the United States._

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directv#Local_channels


----------



## reddice

2's stronger now. Thursday it was weaker and breaking up now and then.


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16642629
> 
> 
> My advice is to avoid at all cost antennas with amplifiers.


_Now_ you tell me.


Well, I've already installed my amplified antenna on the roof, so is there anything I can do to fix the problem from inside? Some kind of attenuator or impedance matching transformer?


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16666055
> 
> 
> I have always felt that the "Mouse House" has made some "donations" to NJ Public Broadcasting.



I was told by one of my TV professors that the commercial networks have always supported public television and they won't let it die, because it keeps the FCC from pressuring the networks to broadcast the same kind of programming.


----------



## rperlberg

Interestingly, my VHF analog reception has always been excellent. Perhaps some stations wanted to keep their VHF channels since they figured their existing viewers were already successfully receiving those channels. As for me, the stations that went VHF post-transition are coming in great, in some cases better than before. Interestingly, channel 3, which I was getting best of all pre-transition, has now completely disappeared. Not that I miss it, but I'm curious to know what happened. Did they stop broadcasting?


----------



## nordloewelabs

just tried 13.1 but it seems to be off-the-air. i used to get it with a low signal (20-40%) but i havent been able to tune it since about midnight.


maybe they are working on the transmitter....


----------



## DTVintermods

*rperlberg: Now you tell me.

Well, I've already installed my amplified antenna on the roof, so is there anything I can do to fix the problem from inside? Some kind of attenuator or impedance matching transformer?*


Sorry. I'm rather new to this forum.

If you cannot bypass the amp or eliminate it, try a 6dB pad at its input and/or output. This is a matter of experimentation. The amp usually raises the noise floor effectively lowering the SNR because it introduces impedance mismatches that cause echoes, line loss, 2nd and 3rd odrer distortion and a rise in the factory NF. The latter two are uncorrectible by the equalizer. How much loss of SNR margin will depend on the quality of the amp and the VSWR of the antenna/tuner. That's why I wrote to avoid the amp if possible. In some cases the amp may be helpful. If you have solid reception on all channels all the time, leave it as-is.


----------



## n2ubp

While on vacation last week I had correspondence via e-mail with a senior gentleman in a NYC deep fringe coverage area of Wurtsboro, NY in Sullivan County. His home is over 1,100 feet elevation and was able to receive good analog VHF signals from NYC stations using a large Channel Master VHF roof antenna. He told me he he called the CBS 800 number. They they told him to contact a TV shop in NJ, which sold him a Winegard VHF/UHF antenna with specs of 60 miles UHF, 70 miles VHF (this guy is 65 air miles from NYC). Needless to say this antenna combined with a low rated RCA converter box result in no digital signa except for RNN infomercials and channel 54 preaching salvation for a buck, so rather than pay the cable or satellite company he is giving up on television, period. He considered cable until he drove down to Middletown to the cable storefront and saw all the workers were behind bullet proof glass. He suspected there was a good reason to be behind glass and it probably was due to poor product







performance for excessive prices.


----------



## Luffy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16679534
> 
> 
> The pre-transition arrangement of channels was always temporary.



I might buy that reasoning if the arrangement was constantly being switched around for the past 10 years or at least 6months prior to the switch they changed the arrangement to the current one, but to go on 10 years where everyone was saying you only need a UHF antenna to pickup OTA HDTV/digital signals then do the digital switch and a bunch go back to VHF is just way beyond idiotic.


This is like me releasing my software fully tested working flawlessly in Windows to all my users then pushing an update on it that said sorry these couple of features only works on Mac so go buy a dual booting Mac if you want them back.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luffy* /forum/post/16688796
> 
> 
> I might buy that reasoning if the arrangement was constantly being switched around for the past 10 years or at least 6months prior to the switch they changed the arrangement to the current one, but to go on 10 years where everyone was saying you only need a UHF antenna to pickup OTA HDTV/digital signals then do the digital switch and a bunch go back to VHF is just way beyond idiotic.
> 
> 
> This is like me releasing my software fully tested working flawlessly in Windows to all my users then pushing an update on it that said sorry these couple of features only works on Mac so go buy a dual booting Mac if you want them back.



Actually I'm sorry, I think they did it just to annoy you and make you spend more money on a new antenna, that really *was* the plan, all along.


As far as your analogy goes, it's really left me scratching my head.







I won't pick it apart word for word here, because it's totally out of the scope of what this forum is about. However, you might try to refine it a bit so it makes sense.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16683330
> 
> 
> Why don't they put a back up in NYC?



Good question. I really don't know. You'll have to ask that question of WNET/WLIW.


----------



## NYCLA*

*Weird.* WNET 13.1 is "off air", broadcasting today instead on PSIP 70.1. 13.2 Kids Thirteen and 13.3 V-Me are normal.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16689025
> 
> *Weird.* WNET 13.1 is "off air", broadcasting today instead on PSIP 70.1. 13.2 Kids Thirteen and 13.3 V-Me are normal.



it still shows as 13.1, 13.2 and 13.3 for me. the signal was at 40% earlier this morning but it's only 10% now. it's not off air.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16689076
> 
> 
> it still shows as 13.1, 13.2 and 13.3 for me. the signal was at 40% earlier this morning but it's only 10% now. it's not off air.



Got my TV on now, getting main PBS on 70.1. On 13.1, no signal. *Weird.* They also do appear to be having signal problems.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16689091
> 
> 
> Got my TV on now, getting main PBS on 70.1. On 13.1, no signal. *Weird.* They also do appear to be having signal problems.



Even odder cause I'm watching Frontline on 13.1 perfect. Maybe since the report is about Wall Street it is being blocked in the city


----------



## TVjazzman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/16687887
> 
> While on vacation last week I had correspondence via e-mail with a senior gentleman in a NYC deep fringe coverage area of Wurtsboro, NY in Sullivan County. His home is over 1,100 feet elevation and was able to receive good analog VHF signals from NYC stations using a large Channel Master VHF roof antenna. He told me he he called the CBS 800 number. They they told him to contact a TV shop in NJ, which sold him a Winegard VHF/UHF antenna with specs of 60 miles UHF, 70 miles VHF (this guy is 65 air miles from NYC). Needless to say this antenna combined with a low rated RCA converter box result in no digital signa except for RNN infomercials and channel 54 preaching salvation for a buck, so rather than pay the cable or satellite company he is giving up on television, period. He considered cable until he drove down to Middletown to the cable storefront and saw all the workers were behind bullet proof glass. He suspected there was a good reason to be behind glass and it probably was due to poor product
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> performance for excessive prices.



Hi, I'm in Rockland County and about 30 miles out of the ESB.


Please be aware that all Antenna's have a rating that I have found to be at best Marketing hype.


If it says good for 30 miles plus, get one that is at least 50 miles plus. If it says 65 miles, get 80 -100 miles coverage as these ratings seem to best case...


Who lives in a best case area anyway!!


TVJazzman


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16689128
> 
> 
> Even odder cause I'm watching Frontline on 13.1 perfect. Maybe since the report is about Wall Street it is being blocked in the city



Well then the other explanation is that there is something about their PSIP data that is making my box interpret it as 70.1 instead of 13.1. I even deleted 70.1 from my channel lineup, then went into the "add channel" screen and did a scan on channel 13 only, and it found 13.2, 13.3, and *70.1*.


----------



## n2ubp

Zip 10940 - 50 miles NW of NYC. Current antenna setup is good for UHF and marginal for VHF high channels from ESB. Thinking I should replace my 4 element Winegard FM yagi with a VHF high band antenna. Have no trouble receiving the UHF stations with the XG91 and CM 7777. Was considering the Winegard YA 1716 until I googled the model number. Based on photos in ads there seem to be two different antenna designs called YA 1716..


This one...
http://www.weisd.com/store2/WINYA-1713.php 


and this one..
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ource=googleps 


Anyone know what is going on here? Will either of these work for NYC FM reception?


I'm reluctant to scrap the XG91 and go with a combo antenna since it works well and doesn't seem to have much wind load.


Suggestions appreciated


----------



## jbjbjbjb

Yes! Finally picking up PBS 13.1


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbjbjbjb* /forum/post/16689328
> 
> 
> Yes! Finally picking up PBS 13.1



...and it still comes in for me on 70.1. I don't care what channel it's on, so long as I *get* the channel. It is a mystery though.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16689367
> 
> 
> ...and it still comes in for me on 70.1. I don't care what channel it's on, so long as I *get* the channel. It is a mystery though.



The 70.1 also happens on the Dish dtvpal. Can you reset your TV or box to defaults. then rescan


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16689167
> 
> 
> Well then the other explanation is that there is something about their PSIP data that is making my box interpret it as 70.1 instead of 13.1.



this happens on my CM7000 converter too. but i've noticed that the strange virtual channel is always the real RF channel followed by ".1", ".2", ".3", etc. for example, sometimes when i rescan, i get:


- MY9 as 38.1 (actual RF = 38)

- FOX as 44.1 (actual RF = 44)


this is obviously not your case as WNET's RF isnt 70. i hope that means they are working on improving their transmission. the only way to completely remove the channel from my converter's memory is through a "new scan" or resetting the box completely.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/16689244
> 
> 
> Zip 10940 - 50 miles NW of NYC. Current antenna setup is good for UHF and marginal for VHF high channels from ESB. Thinking I should replace my 4 element Winegard FM yagi with a VHF high band antenna. Have no trouble receiving the UHF stations with the XG91 and CM 7777. Was considering the Winegard YA 1716 until I googled the model number. Based on photos in ads there seem to be two different antenna designs called YA 1716..
> 
> 
> This one...
> http://www.weisd.com/store2/WINYA-1713.php
> 
> 
> and this one..
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ource=googleps
> 
> 
> Anyone know what is going on here? Will either of these work for NYC FM reception?
> 
> 
> I'm reluctant to scrap the XG91 and go with a combo antenna since it works well and doesn't seem to have much wind load.
> 
> 
> Suggestions appreciated



The YA1713 (note correct model number) is intended for channels 7 - 13, not FM radio.


You would do best to ADD the YA1713 to the 7777/91XG and keep the FM antenna separate (and filtered out) of the TV down-lead.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16689568
> 
> 
> The 70.1 also happens on the Dish dtvpal. Can you reset your TV or box to defaults. then rescan



Yes that did it. Now WNET is back on 13.1. This really makes me want to get a new television sooner. I'm really starting to hate these little converter boxes.


P.S. WNET's signal is total crap now.


----------



## Constable Odo

I thought EVERYONE that watched TV in Manhattan had cable. OTA=Wow! Cable just for the reason of getting a hundred+ channels. Jeez, where I live in Queens, there are single resident homes with like three or four (DishTV) dishes stuck in various places. Even apartments have them hanging next to windows, yeah, even in Flushing and Jamaica. I never knew there was an enforceable law that said you can't have a dish antenna.


My obviously crazy assumption was that people in Manhattan, since they're practically bathed in the glow of the ESB that if they really wanted to, they could just hang some tiny VHF/UHF antenna out their windows to get a solid signal. I can't believe in the year 2009 that people are fighting for just a few measly TV channels. I guess America really is behind the eight ball. I never would have guessed it. In Wyoming maybe, but in the NYC greater metro area, never. I didn't realize how fortunate I am.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16690100
> 
> 
> I can't believe in the year 2009 that people are fighting for just a few measly TV channels. I guess America really is behind the eight ball. I never would have guessed it.



in my case, the issue is 4-fold:


1) economy went down the toilet.


2) cable/sat is too much money to be paying every month -- even on a good economy.


3) the number of reality shows is already *twice* the total amount of channels. the amount of crappy channels is 20 times the amount of good ones. for the money they charge, they should be providing more quality and less channels.


4) signal is over-compressed. when you call tech support to complain, they put you through a pointless "via crucis" that solves nothing. just wastes your time and makes you feel cheated.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16690100
> 
> 
> I thought EVERYONE that watched TV in Manhattan had cable. OTA=Wow! Cable just for the reason of getting a hundred+ channels. Jeez, where I live in Queens, there are single resident homes with like three or four (DishTV) dishes stuck in various places. Even apartments have them hanging next to windows, yeah, even in Flushing and Jamaica. I never knew there was an enforceable law that said you can't have a dish antenna.
> 
> 
> My obviously crazy assumption was that people in Manhattan, since they're practically bathed in the glow of the ESB that if they really wanted to, they could just hang some tiny VHF/UHF antenna out their windows to get a solid signal. I can't believe in the year 2009 that people are fighting for just a few measly TV channels. I guess America really is behind the eight ball. I never would have guessed it. In Wyoming maybe, but in the NYC greater metro area, never. I didn't realize how fortunate I am.



I live in Astoria, in Queens, and I get all channels broadcasting from the ESB flawlessly (except today the WNET signal is crap).


----------



## Constable Odo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16675067
> 
> 
> Live in Astoria, Queens. Can get all major channels and sub-channels crystal clear *except* WLIW 21 - no signal at all. Wondering what other people's reception of WLIW is like that live within the five boroughs. I know at least one person in Brooklyn is getting WLIW great, but has another problem that I don't have.
> 
> 
> My antenna is a set of rabbit ears and my reception is flawless except for WLIW 21. Can't figure out why in Astoria, Queens, I would get no signal at all. *Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero!*



WLIW 21's transmitter is east of you out in Plainsview/Garden City, Nassau just a stone's throw north of the LIE and the signal is just so-so to begin with. A decent 30 mile range directional UHF antenna will lock the signal hard if you point it correctly. Not a biggie with a roof antenna since I'd done it for years. With an indoor antenna, I doubt you'd get a solid lock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLIW 

It's definitely worth getting because it's got three good educational stations. PBS, PBS World and Create. Hell, even TimeWarner Cable only gives you PBS and not the other two subchannels.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16690146
> 
> 
> 
> 2) cable/sat is too much money to be paying every month -- even on a good economy.


*Yep, this is why I dumped cable.* It's a total rip off and the prices kept going up and up and up for channels I *never* watched. I sat down and looked at everything I regularly watch on television (when I did watch television, which wasn't much) and realized that everything I did watch was available free over the air. I was paying *$15* a month for the privelege of the cable company delivering the OTA channels to me, then *$17.95* for the DVR cable box, then *$48.99* for their "Signature" tier which included all the mainstream cable/sat channels like CNN, Bravo, The Weather Channel, ESPN, etc etc. So that was *$81.94* a month, *$983.28* a year for *TELEVISION*. I started thinking what else I could do with almost a thousand dollars a year other than throw it down the drain for television channels that *A)* I never watched, *B)* were lots of filler and crap (CNN) and *C)* huge blocks of the same show over and over again (Bravo, TNT, TBS, Travel Channel the list goes on and on).


The only way you'd ever get me to pay to have video piped into my home again is if I was living in an area where the OTA signal just wasn't good enough or receivable.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16690168
> 
> 
> WLIW 21's transmitter is east of you out in Plainsview/Garden City, Nassau just a stone's throw north of the LIE and the signal is just so-so to begin with. A decent 30 mile range directional UHF antenna will lock the signal hard if you point it correctly. Not a biggie with a roof antenna since I'd done it for years. With an indoor antenna, I doubt you'd get a solid lock.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLIW
> 
> It's definitely worth getting because it's got three good educational stations. PBS, PBS World and Create. Hell, even TimeWarner Cable only gives you PBS and not the other two subchannels.



Unfortunately I can only use an indoor antenna and I'm getting everything coming from the ESB perfectly, in general, with a pair of dipole rabbit ears. I was thinking of trying the RCA ANT1550 though. I hate the look of rabbit ears and other antennas and I like how the 1550 would hang flat on, and blend in with, a white wall. I'd like to get WLIW, but it's not *that* important, if it means having some ugly, gross looking antenna sitting in my living room.


----------



## Constable Odo

Every apartment building in the NYC greater metro area should be required by law to put up a master antenna on the rooftops. I never lived in an apartment or project so I never realized that people had problems with reception for the major channels. I'd heard the term master antenna long time ago so I figured all the tall buildings had them up there. It's just crazy to offer people converter boxes and have almost nothing worthwhile to hook them up to.


My 70+-year old god-aunt lives in a second-floor apartment in Brooklyn and she had to end up getting basic Cablevision because even though she had bought a converter box and an RCA 1500 (non-amp) Flat antenna, she couldn't get any decent signals due to the direction her apartment is facing. She always had a limited choice of stations, but this changeover really whacked her signals for her favorite shows. A pretty sad state of affairs for the elderly or limited income viewers.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16690279
> 
> 
> Every apartment building in the NYC greater metro area should be required by law to put up a master antenna on the rooftops. I never lived in an apartment or project so I never realized that people had problems with reception for the major channels. I'd heard the term master antenna long time ago so I figured all the tall buildings had them up there. It's just crazy to offer people converter boxes and have almost nothing worthwhile to hook them up to.
> 
> 
> My 70+-year old god-aunt lives in a second-floor apartment in Brooklyn and she had to end up getting basic Cablevision because even though she had bought a converter box and an RCA 1500 (non-amp) Flat antenna, she couldn't get any decent signals due to the direction her apartment is facing. She always had a limited choice of stations, but this changeover really whacked her signals for her favorite shows. A pretty sad state of affairs for the elderly or limited income viewers.



Like I said, I get everything perfectly except WLIW so I'm lucky I suppose? Plus I'm pretty much LOS with the ESB and it's literally just "over there" from where I am. This building I am in (built in 1988/1989) did at one time have a master Antenna on the roof, but it was taken down long ago (before I moved in) once people started paying for cable and satellite. There are RF jacks built into the wall in the living room and the bedrooms that used to be connected to the building's master antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

And who is going to pay for the installation and maintenance of a master antenna system?


If it were to be done, which it isn't, after the initial outlay - which could be substantial -monthly fees would be added to tenants' rent - to all the tenants, not just the ones who wanted the service.


What next?


Let's legislate air conditioning in every apartment - at least air conditioning has health benefits.


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16689704
> 
> 
> The YA1713 (note correct model number) is intended for channels 7 - 13, not FM radio.
> 
> 
> You would do best to ADD the YA1713 to the 7777/91XG and keep the FM antenna separate (and filtered out) of the TV down-lead.



Sorry about the slip up on the model number. Between the TV antenna setup, a scanner discone, diamond x-500 dual 2m/70cm, v2000a tribander, the 5 band HF vertical, the 150 foot random wire, the dedicated NWS SAME alert antenna, the longwire and the IBOC AM antenna I am running out of roof and attic space. I was hoping FM would be part of the YA1713..


So was there a design change in the YA1713 or is this a photo mismatch on the part of Winegard?


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16690313
> 
> 
> And who is going to pay for the installation and maintenance of a master antenna system?
> 
> 
> If it were to be done, which it isn't, after the initial outlay - which could be substantial -monthly fees would be added to tenants' rent - to all the tenants, not just the ones who wanted the service.
> 
> 
> What next?
> 
> 
> Let's legislate air conditioning in every apartment - at least air conditioning has health benefits.



Maintenance of a master antenna system? What kind of maintenance? The antenna is installed and if properly done should work fine for at least 10 years. The cost? Add it to the cost of rent/building fees. You aren't talking a major capitol expense. If the wiring is in place it's a minimal cost to have a buildibg antenna. Years ago when I lived in an apartment in the NY suburb there was a master antenna system or you could choose cable service. Some in here are making too much of a rather simple servive most buildings at one time or another have supplied since the 1950's.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16690208
> 
> *Yep, this is why I dumped cable.* It's a total rip off and the prices kept going up and up and up for channels I *never* watched. I sat down and looked at everything I regularly watch on television (when I did watch television, which wasn't much) and realized that everything I did watch was available free over the air. I was paying *$15* a month for the privelege of the cable company delivering the OTA channels to me, then *$17.95* for the DVR cable box, then *$48.99* for their "Signature" tier which included all the mainstream cable/sat channels like CNN, Bravo, The Weather Channel, ESPN, etc etc. So that was *$81.94* a month, *$983.28* a year for *TELEVISION*. I started thinking what else I could do with almost a thousand dollars a year other than throw it down the drain for television channels that *A)* I never watched, *B)* were lots of filler and crap (CNN) and *C)* huge blocks of the same show over and over again (Bravo, TNT, TBS, Travel Channel the list goes on and on).
> 
> 
> The only way you'd ever get me to pay to have video piped into my home again is if I was living in an area where the OTA signal just wasn't good enough or receivable.



My feelings exactly! I have DISH network and am spending $73.99/mo for the Gold 250 pkg, inc $5/mo for locals. You are right, that's $875/yr I can think of better things to do with! I will miss a few channels (30 to be exact) IF I can attain reliable OTA reception out here on eastern LI. But I suppose I will gain the WLIW PBS ch and sub's, etc.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16690897
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly! I have DISH network and am spending $73.99/mo for the Gold 250 pkg, inc $5/mo for locals. You are right, that's $875/yr I can think of better things to do with! I will miss a few channels (30 to be exact) IF I can attain reliable OTA reception out here on eastern LI. But I suppose I will gain the WLIW PBS ch and sub's, etc.



Actually that's *$947.88* per year (that you are paying to DISH)!


----------



## akahooper

Hello all, I just finished reading this thread from the beginning and am perplexed about the way this whole thing was/is being handled and the decisions that were made, and was wondering if anyone can shed some light on things....

Here are my questions:


1. It seems most people were unaware of how things were going to change as far as UHF stations moving to VHF, the types of antennas that will be required following the switch, and what level of reception you should've been striving to achieve during analog to reliably receive digital. Why the apparent lack of education? It's like all they did was blow sunshine up everyone's a$$ and not discuss the realities of the situation - "Get a digital converter box" is not the only information that was needed! It seems the majority of people out there are clueless, and that's shameful!!!


2. Why did the FCC continue to allow low VHF transmission (ch 2-6) for DTV knowing these freq's are prone to problems?


3. For that matter why did they allow even hi VHF, and clip the UHF band to only ch 51? Would it not have made more sense to set the new range from ch 14-63, thus allowing the entire country to use one [UHF] antenna??? (And if standardized at less than an octave of frequency range I'm sure we would've seen some nice performing, compact antenna designs too!) I understand you need less power to transmit on VHF, but do the few stations that transmit in VHF carry that much weight? And the so-called "savings" has apparently backfired anyway, as now they're going to have to up the power to achieve penetration of DTV - so where's the savings? It's created nothing but headaches...


4. How is it that after more than 50 freaking years of analog transmission in VHF they couldn't figure the proper power levels these stations would need to achieve digital signal penetration when moved back to hi VHF? It now seems to be a well known fact that if you had marginal reception in analog you wouldn't be able to attain a DTV signal lock. I mean, this really doesn't seem like rocket science here... A couple of polls, a few surveys - hell they spend millions on studies all the time that the average 8 year old could tell the outcome of, and then they butcher the living crap out of this? Pisses me off!


5. As was mentioned, the pre-transition arrangement of channels WAS temporary. My question is, if all was working WHY WEREN'T THEY JUST MADE PERMANENT??? (And as I understand it, many stations also weren't even broadcasting at full power in these temp positions - and there was still decent reception!)


6. Someone was trying to draw a parallel between the DTV transition and the 9/11 disaster - I don't see it. It would seem the powers that be had PLENTY of time to prepare for this - on 9/11 there was none... And with all this time to prep you'd expect things to come off without a hitch... For the most part anyway, I accept sometimes Murphy's on your shoulder, but by the end of the first week you'd think they'd have things squared away. (When you've got people 8 or 10 miles from the ESB not being able to receive a VHF signal you've got some serious issues! I thought it was the hi UHF that was supposed to be troublesome - LOL!)


7. I was HOPING that this DTV transition would actually INCREASE the ability to receive OTA transmissions - that the networks would WANT to increase their OTA viewer base - because with all these sub channels (that won't be carried by cable/sat.) they can increase their revenue from commercials, but apparently that was overly optimistic... (As is also ever seeing some of the better cable/sat channels go OTA I suppose.)


If I seem annoyed it's only because I am. I live in Shirley, (eastern LI) 58.5 miles from the ESB and even back in the early 90's analog VHF reception here was all but impossible. I built a trial Grey-Hoverman just to see what I could pick up out here and it looks somewhat promising from ground level. Monday evening I was able to get a lock on 42 stations. (Inc subs, although many were Spanish, Korean, 10 channels of WFME (9 radio only), and 1 Chinese station. I even got ION & WNJN for a bit!) I did also get WNYW and WCBS using a DTVPAL and a radioshack 10dB inline amp. (#15-2505) but I fear without spending serious dollars on a giant, ugly VHF antenna I have no shot at getting 7, 11 or 13...










Sorry for the long post, but I had to get that off my chest.

Any thoughts?


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16690921
> 
> 
> Actually that's *$947.88* per year (that you are paying to DISH)!



Oops, typo - it's 72.99/mo (*including* the $5/mo for locals) or $875.88/yr.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16690850
> 
> 
> Maintenance of a master antenna system? What kind of maintenance? The antenna is installed and if properly done should work fine for at least 10 years. The cost? Add it to the cost of rent/building fees. You aren't talking a major capitol expense. If the wiring is in place it's a minimal cost to have a buildibg antenna. Years ago when I lived in an apartment in the NY suburb there was a master antenna system or you could choose cable service. Some in here are making too much of a rather simple servive most buildings at one time or another have supplied since the 1950's.



What exactly does a master antenna system consist of besides the antenna? I would assume an Apt VHF/UHF amp and some kind of distribution block or several spliiters, right? Assuming this is like a 50 unit bldg.


----------



## Trip in VA

Anyone seeing 70-1, 71-1, etc on a DTVPal needs to do a full factory reset. It's a bug in the way the DTVPal handles stations that change settings on their encoder.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

there is a law on the books that any multiple dwelling unit over a certain amount of units (i forget..i think may be 20 or more) are required to provide a master antenna for its tenants. with the proliferation of cable and satellite over the past 20 years, that law is hardly enforced unless people complain.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16690279
> 
> 
> Every apartment building in the NYC greater metro area should be required by law to put up a master antenna on the rooftops. I never lived in an apartment or project so I never realized that people had problems with reception for the major channels. I'd heard the term master antenna long time ago so I figured all the tall buildings had them up there. It's just crazy to offer people converter boxes and have almost nothing worthwhile to hook them up to.
> 
> 
> My 70+-year old god-aunt lives in a second-floor apartment in Brooklyn and she had to end up getting basic Cablevision because even though she had bought a converter box and an RCA 1500 (non-amp) Flat antenna, she couldn't get any decent signals due to the direction her apartment is facing. She always had a limited choice of stations, but this changeover really whacked her signals for her favorite shows. A pretty sad state of affairs for the elderly or limited income viewers.


----------



## nyctveng

there is a cost to maintain those systems. in older bigger buildings there were mini headends on the rooftop of the buildings. ch 2 - 13 each would have a "strip amp" for each channel, combined, amplified then sent down to the apartments. because of the varying levels received by the antenna the 7 or so strip amps would all put out about the same level.


after 9/11, contractors that maintained the thousands of master antenna systems thoughout the city were busy for weeks redirecting antenna from WTC to empire state.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16690850
> 
> 
> Maintenance of a master antenna system? What kind of maintenance? The antenna is installed and if properly done should work fine for at least 10 years. The cost? Add it to the cost of rent/building fees. You aren't talking a major capitol expense. If the wiring is in place it's a minimal cost to have a buildibg antenna. Years ago when I lived in an apartment in the NY suburb there was a master antenna system or you could choose cable service. Some in here are making too much of a rather simple servive most buildings at one time or another have supplied since the 1950's.


----------



## Trip in VA

On Friday I'll be arriving in New Jersey and will be capturing new TSReader data. Anything fun that I should look for?


Also, on Saturday morning we'll be driving up to White Plains. I'm hoping to capture stations from Long Island, Connecticut, and upstate New York. Is there any hope of that? I know that the Hartford stations are probably out of reach, but I'm thinking maybe these:


WRNN, WTBY, WLIW, WFTY, WLNY, WEDW, WSAH, WCTX. If I manage to bring my VHF bowtie, I'll try for WTNH as well.


Any opinions?


- Trip


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16693024
> 
> 
> On Friday I'll be arriving in New Jersey and will be capturing new TSReader data. Anything fun that I should look for?
> 
> 
> Also, on Saturday morning we'll be driving up to White Plains. I'm hoping to capture stations from Long Island, Connecticut, and upstate New York. Is there any hope of that? I know that the Hartford stations are probably out of reach, but I'm thinking maybe these:
> 
> 
> WRNN, WTBY, WLIW, WFTY, WLNY, WEDW, WSAH, WCTX. If I manage to bring my VHF bowtie, I'll try for WTNH as well.
> 
> 
> Any opinions?
> 
> 
> - Trip



If you find yourself travelling around Central New Jersey (between Princeton and Bridgewater), test for channel 31 from Philly and then from New York City. It would be interesting what you observe. Current theory is that signals of approximate equal strength may be cause of inability to receive ION from NYC at some locations in this area.


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm taking I-78 E across to I-287 N, and that's as far south as I will be. I've barely decoded WNJT from 78 in New Jersey, and otherwise I see the Philly stations in Allentown. (I won't be seeing WPVI this time, though, most likely.)


Actually the intersection of 287 and 78 is right next to WNJB-DT 8, and I don't think I've ever decoded them either.


- Trip


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16693292
> 
> 
> If you find yourself travelling around Central New Jersey (between Princeton and Bridgewater), test for channel 31 from Philly and then from New York City. It would be interesting what you observe. Current theory is that signals of approximate equal strength may be cause of inability to receive ION from NYC at some locations in this area.
> 
> 
> Frank
> 
> WA2ISK



I wonder if that's why ION is the only station broadcasting from ESB that I don't get reliably. It is slowly coming back as the weather clears up here in Jersey.


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16693326
> 
> 
> I'm taking I-78 E across to I-287 N, and that's as far south as I will be. I've barely decoded WNJT from 78 in New Jersey, and otherwise I see the Philly stations in Allentown. (I won't be seeing WPVI this time, though, most likely.)
> 
> 
> Actually the intersection of 287 and 78 is right next to WNJB-DT 8, and I don't think I've ever decoded them either.
> 
> 
> - Trip



You will be getting on I287N at intersection (milemarker) 21


As a reference-


T-Max is near exit 17 on I287

WNJB-DT 8 New Brunswick is a few miles south of exit 10 (if it is where I think it is)

I am about 10 miles south of exit 12

You can see our reception posts on this and the Philadelphia forums.

So you would have to detour 10 or 15 miles south on I287 to validate our findings.


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## n2ubp

1. It seems most people were unaware of how things were going to change.... Why the apparent lack of education?

*This is the real world. It is everyone's own responsibility to get an education on this topic. There is plenty of real world results documented on the internet years before the cut over.*


It's like all they did was blow sunshine up everyone's a$$ and not discuss the realities of the situation - "Get a digital converter box" is not the only information that was needed! It seems the majority of people out there are clueless, and that's shameful!!!

*Some people don't care, some people some one else will do it for them,

some people do not have a technical background and do not understand even if all the information was put on their plate.*


2. Why did the FCC continue to allow low VHF transmission (ch 2-6) for DTV knowing these freq's are prone to problems?

*In NYC metro it is VHF highband and UHF. I can't speak for other parts of the country.*


3. For that matter why did they allow even hi VHF, and clip the UHF band to only ch 51?

*Nothing wrong with high VHF if it is done right. UHF is affected by trees, foliage, moisture, and more line of sight than VHF highband. The key here is that this seems to still be an experiment in progress, (like Win95) and has a long way to go till perfection. I suspect it will take another year for things to settle down.*


Would it not have made more sense to set the new range from ch 14-63, thus allowing the entire country to use one [UHF] antenna???

*Each region has different unique reception obstacles that need to be overcome. UHF and VHF offer different sets of reception parameters that may be good or bad in different regions.*


It's created nothing but headaches...

*For some of us, like me who have to go out and purchase another antenna, spend $50 and roof time in order to catch 3 VHF stations, it is probably worth the cost compared to the easy way out of signing your bankroll away with cable. Think of current ATSC deployment as version 1.0, a work in progress rather than a finished, polished final product and you will understand the issues that crop up.*


4. How is it that after more than 50 freaking years of analog transmission in VHF they couldn't figure the proper power levels these stations would need to achieve digital signal penetration when moved back to hi VHF?
*Good question. I think it is a balance of xmitter cost, performance, RF safety, and RFI to other services. Complain to the FCC and the broadcasters NOW while nothing is set in concrete and they might sink money into plant and labor.
*

5. As was mentioned, the pre-transition arrangement of channels WAS temporary. My question is, if all was working WHY WEREN'T THEY JUST MADE PERMANENT???

*Some stations were xmitting on channels that were going away. Some stations did not invest in full output plant on their temp assignment freqs. Some were waiting for other stations to move to a different musical chair. The FCC seems to be a political driven monster rather than technically driven.*



(And as I understand it, many stations also weren't even broadcasting at full power in these temp positions - and there was still decent reception!)

*For some, not all.*


6.... For the most part anyway, I accept sometimes Murphy's on your shoulder, but by the end of the first week you'd think they'd have things squared away.
*
I suspect it will take at least a year for it all to settle down*


7. I was HOPING that this DTV transition would actually INCREASE the ability to receive OTA transmissions
*
You get more sub channels.. but is the program content worth the effort. so far for me the answer is no.*


If I seem annoyed it's only because I am. I live in Shirley, (eastern LI) 58.5 miles from the ESB and even back in the early 90's analog VHF reception here was all but impossible.


[*FONT="Arial"]My grandparents lived in Rocky Point in the 70's

They had a big old roof top antenna and rotor on their single story ranch near the north end of the William Floyd and the sod farms. They captured enough analog signal on VHF from the WTC to get a usable but snowy picture. With careful choosing of today's better components and proper install I bet you stand a better chance of pulling in a signal than they did, unless your location is plain terrible. [/font]*



I built a trial Grey-Hoverman just to see what I could pick up out here and it looks somewhat promising from ground level. Monday evening I was able to get a lock on 42 stations. (Inc subs, although many were Spanish, Korean, 10 channels of WFME (9 radio only), and 1 Chinese station. I even got ION & WNJN for a bit!) I did also get WNYW and WCBS using a DTVPAL and a radioshack 10dB inline amp. (#15-2505) but I fear without spending serious dollars on a giant, ugly VHF antenna I have no shot at getting 7, 11 or 13...








*
There are better choices than radio shack preamps, especially in the fringe. Radio Shack preamps has wasted more of my time than I can count. Try a channel master 7777. World of difference and worth every penny. I am 50 miles NW of NYC.*


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/16693593
> 
> There are better choices than radio shack preamps, especially in the fringe. Radio Shack preamps has wasted more of my time than I can count. Try a channel master 7777. World of difference and worth every penny. I am 50 miles NW of NYC.[/b]



I just looked at the box and that's the preamp that I installed. Will the 7777 be that much better real-world?


I couldn't really find any stats on the RS amp, what about the Channel master.


I've only had the RS for a week so I could return it if the channel master is that much better.


----------



## reddice

I got the Terk HDTVa which is the amplified version of the Terk HDTVi. Reception wise I don't notice any difference in stations. Stations that I can get I get the same signal strength if the amp is on or off. Maybe if it is on it is a couple of points higher but I can't notice a difference. I was not expecting miracles in reception. Still was not a waste of money because the HDTVi I am given to my mother to try on her converter box. The only thing about the HDTVa is that it always has to be plugged into a power socket. If you connect it without the amp the reception is terrible. Can't get any stations. When you connect the amp if it is on or off it seems the same signal strength as the HDTVi.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16693580
> 
> 
> So you would have to detour 10 or 15 miles south on I287 to validate our findings.
> 
> 
> Frank
> 
> WA2ISK



If it was just me in the car, I would.


My mom has to be there by a certain time for a wedding that evening, so we can't really take any detours this time.


I absolutely would not be surprised in the least if it turned out that the two were interfering with each other in that area. I must wonder if ION will consider some kind of translator in central New Jersey to allow them some kind of watchable signal.


- Trip


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16693652
> 
> 
> I just looked at the box and that's the preamp that I installed. Will the 7777 be that much better real-world?
> 
> 
> I couldn't really find any stats on the RS amp, what about the Channel master.
> 
> 
> I've only had the RS for a week so I could return it if the channel master is that much better.



Living in deep fringe you need the best of everything to grab a signal. The CM 7777 has the best signal to noise ratio ratings with the exception of a custom built preamp from the UK. During analog days I was using a Radio Shack VU190 antenna and radio shack preamps with lousy results. Switching to the CM7777 resulted in impressive improvements for me.


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16693771
> 
> 
> If it was just me in the car, I would.
> 
> 
> My mom has to be there by a certain time for a wedding that evening, so we can't really take any detours this time.
> 
> 
> I absolutely would not be surprised in the least if it turned out that the two were interfering with each other in that area. I must wonder if ION will consider some kind of translator in central New Jersey to allow them some kind of watchable signal.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well, it would have been interesting to compare your reception observations to ours, but I guess you have your priorities right. Have a good trip, Trip


----------



## jzareski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16693024
> 
> 
> On Friday I'll be arriving in New Jersey and will be capturing new TSReader data. Anything fun that I should look for?
> 
> 
> Also, on Saturday morning we'll be driving up to White Plains. I'm hoping to capture stations from Long Island, Connecticut, and upstate New York. Is there any hope of that? I know that the Hartford stations are probably out of reach, but I'm thinking maybe these:
> 
> 
> WRNN, WTBY, WLIW, WFTY, WLNY, WEDW, WSAH, WCTX. If I manage to bring my VHF bowtie, I'll try for WTNH as well.
> 
> 
> Any opinions?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hi Trip,


Be interesting to note the WEDW DT-49 Bridgeport change since the ERP increased from 41 kW to 91 kW. And if there is any tickle of WEDH DT-45 Hartford.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'd like to do some testing, I just can't get down the road to do it. Also, it's hard to test in the car because there's so much noise and a lot of reflections. I generally capture data for RabbitEars when I'm close to the transmitter.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jzareski* /forum/post/16695789
> 
> 
> Hi Trip,
> 
> 
> Be interesting to note the WEDW DT-49 Bridgeport change since the ERP increased from 41 kW to 91 kW. And if there is any tickle of WEDH DT-45 Hartford.



I've never seen either one in NJ, and this'll be my first time in White Plains, but I'll be looking for your signals. I'll let you know what I see.


I'd look for WEDY but I doubt it'll make it there, and my VHF bowtie isn't fantastic.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16693771
> 
> 
> If it was just me in the car, I would.
> 
> 
> My mom has to be there by a certain time for a wedding that evening, so we can't really take any detours this time.
> 
> 
> I absolutely would not be surprised in the least if it turned out that the two were interfering with each other in that area. I must wonder if ION will consider some kind of translator in central New Jersey to allow them some kind of watchable signal.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Are you staying in a camper? I am so confused


----------



## Trip in VA

Nah, staying with my grandparents in Fair Lawn on Friday night. Have to do some visiting in White Plains on Saturday, then we're heading out to the Poconos until Wednesday-ish. No digital reception there.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16695900
> 
> 
> Nah, staying with my grandparents in Fair Lawn on Friday night. Have to do some visiting in White Plains on Saturday, then we're heading out to the Poconos until Wednesday-ish. No digital reception there.
> 
> 
> - Trip



ok I thought I read you bringing your box and antenna? To test signal? Did I read all wrong?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16696481
> 
> 
> ok I thought I read you bringing your box and antenna? To test signal? Did I read all wrong?



Yep. I drag my "DTV Reception Kit" with me whenever I go somewhere. My site won't get TSReader data by itself!










- Power inverter

- Computer

- DViCO Fusion5HDTV-USB

- Zenith DTT900

- CM7777 Amp

- Zenith Silver Sensor Antenna

- Standard rabbit ears


And new for this trip, my VHF bowtie.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16696549
> 
> 
> Yep. I drag my "DTV Reception Kit" with me whenever I go somewhere. My site won't get TSReader data by itself!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Power inverter
> 
> - Computer
> 
> - DViCO Fusion5HDTV-USB
> 
> - Zenith DTT900
> 
> - CM7777 Amp
> 
> - Zenith Silver Sensor Antenna
> 
> - Standard rabbit ears
> 
> 
> And new for this trip, my VHF bowtie.
> 
> 
> - Trip



You travel by plane? I could never bring all that. Even with a car lol. Man you got the bug bad. Tell us what happens lol


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/16695314
> 
> 
> Living in deep fringe you need the best of everything to grab a signal. The CM 7777 has the best signal to noise ratio ratings with the exception of a custom built preamp from the UK. During analog days I was using a Radio Shack VU190 antenna and radio shack preamps with lousy results. Switching to the CM7777 resulted in impressive improvements for me.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16693652
> 
> 
> I just looked at the box and that's the preamp that I installed. Will the 7777 be that much better real-world?
> 
> 
> I couldn't really find any stats on the RS amp, what about the Channel master.
> 
> 
> I've only had the RS for a week so I could return it if the channel master is that much better.



No doubt a Channel Master will be better! I couldn't find any noise specs on the RS amp either, but I just picked it up out of convenience for testing purposes. I plan on returning it tomorrow.


The CM7777 is pretty powerful, and I was advised against this as I have some strong signals out of Smithtown than may overload if using this amp. An HDP269 (12 dB Gain, 3 dB noise) was recommended instead. If you're seeing somewhat decent results with the RS and have any strong transmissions within beam on your TVfool then this may work for you also.


Either way, dump the RS for a CM.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luffy* /forum/post/16672013
> 
> 
> 
> I am all for the digital switch but for YEARS the HDTV channels were set and working properly then at the last minute they change them around. Who was the idiot that thought that up? He should be fired at the very least.



Totally agree. I couldn't have said it better.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16674209
> 
> 
> - RadioShack UFO (Amp)
> 
> - Terk HDTVa (Amp)
> 
> - Terk TV55 (Amp)
> 
> 
> for the last 3 days i've been playing with the 3 antennas listed above and now i'm ready to report my experiences. i tried them at several different spots and in several different configurations.
> 
> 
> i can say with certainty that the TV55 is useless in my place (8mi north of ESB). it performed poorly on the UHF band and it could never receive the 3 VHF channels. also, i'd like to point out that the TV55's shape and length make it somewhat inflexible for use indoors. i'm not saying this is a bad antenna.... i'm just saying it didnt suit my particular setup. the fact i live in a sort of valley makes reception rather difficult.
> 
> 
> regarding the UFO and the HDTVa, *both performed well on the UHF band*, getting all major UHF channels! however, that was expected since my home-made loop had also worked great! either UHF is a more forgiving band, or these channels are being broadcast with adequate power....
> 
> 
> the real test for HDTVa and UFO was the reception of the high VHF channels. well, *neither could receive ABC or CW*! on the other hand, i did (finally) get Thirteen!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the problem is, most of the time, Thirteen's signal ocillates between 0 and 50%. however, at 2 very particular spots, both antennas can receive PBS at a watchable level (40%). unfortunately, that requires very precise positioning and stretching of the dipoles (also, an 150 degrees angle works best). very annoying....it's like dealing with a goddamn celebrity! and this whole "circus" becomes pointless when the weather changes because the signal drops to zero, anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well, anyone living within 10mi of ESB in Jersey or Brooklyn should get decent reception of channel 13.1 using the HDTVa or UFO. the UHF channels would probably look great even 15mi away! *the HDTVa is my favourite of the 3!* btw, i learned something interesting from this experience: amplifiers make a huge difference! i could not get 13.1 with the amps off!
> 
> 
> so now i want to buy a separate (and stronger) amplifier to use in place of the one bundled with the Terk HDTVa. could you guys recommend a good amp for use indoors? i think i should get one on which the level can be adjusted so to avoid overloading the converter box. should i get 10, 20 or 30db? any suggestions?
> 
> 
> i think i'll try one more antenna as well.... one with more emphasis on the VHF band -- since it's clear to me that UHF is a no-brainer in my location. does anyone here have experience with the Winegard HD-1080 ? do you guys agree that it should perform better (than the HDTVa/UFO) on high VHF?



Thanks! I also have a Terk HDTVa and in 3 miles of the ESB. I cannot get Channel 7 (no signal AT ALL) and Channel 11 (pixellation / freezing, not watchable). It's def. the antenna. but good to know it was at least the best among the three.







I'm lookin forward to your results with Winegard HD-1080.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16690100
> 
> 
> I thought EVERYONE that watched TV in Manhattan had cable. OTA=Wow! Cable just for the reason of getting a hundred+ channels. Jeez, where I live in Queens, there are single resident homes with like three or four (DishTV) dishes stuck in various places. Even apartments have them hanging next to windows, yeah, even in Flushing and Jamaica. I never knew there was an enforceable law that said you can't have a dish antenna.
> 
> 
> My obviously crazy assumption was that people in Manhattan, since they're practically bathed in the glow of the ESB that if they really wanted to, they could just hang some tiny VHF/UHF antenna out their windows to get a solid signal. I can't believe in the year 2009 that people are fighting for just a few measly TV channels. I guess America really is behind the eight ball. I never would have guessed it. In Wyoming maybe, but in the NYC greater metro area, never. I didn't realize how fortunate I am.



LOL! You guessed something right but assumed something else a bit wrong. I live in the UES section of Manhattan and have cable wiring into my house, I have TWC subscription too. I can of course watch all channels provided OTA on my television thanks to cable. But I'm into OTA reception because I have an ATSC tuner on my computer, and by tuning in on a computer, I can record HD shows, edit, and save as much as I like permanently (as opposed to cable company's HD-DVR that has limited storage) on blu-ray disks and external hard drives.

















I am also shocked by all the mess this transition is causing. People who have been able to tune into channels pre-transition have now lost some network channels. Hope this is temporary and will be fixed soon, but still, a part of me says coulnd't they plan it better? LOL! We are after all talkin about major network BAISC channels in the biggest metropolitan area of the nation.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16690279
> 
> 
> Every apartment building in the NYC greater metro area should be required by law to put up a master antenna on the rooftops. I never lived in an apartment or project so I never realized that people had problems with reception for the major channels. I'd heard the term master antenna long time ago so I figured all the tall buildings had them up there. It's just crazy to offer people converter boxes and have almost nothing worthwhile to hook them up to.
> 
> 
> My 70+-year old god-aunt lives in a second-floor apartment in Brooklyn and she had to end up getting basic Cablevision because even though she had bought a converter box and an RCA 1500 (non-amp) Flat antenna, she couldn't get any decent signals due to the direction her apartment is facing. She always had a limited choice of stations, but this changeover really whacked her signals for her favorite shows. A pretty sad state of affairs for the elderly or limited income viewers.




Awww! Really feel for her.







I agree about the mandating rooftop antennas for buildings. That would really make everybody's life easier. And at least the availability of some channels are necessary for informing public of emergencies. It makes sense to do that by mandating rooftops.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16696695
> 
> 
> You travel by plane? I could never bring all that. Even with a car lol. Man you got the bug bad. Tell us what happens lol



No, this is by car. And I've had some variation of this kit since 2003! The digital TV receivers have changed, an analog-only receiver was removed, I added rabbit ears to the kit, and I have a newer computer now, but otherwise the kit is the same set of gear I had in 2003.


- Trip


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/16696800
> 
> 
> Thanks! I also have a Terk HDTVa and in 3 miles of the ESB. I cannot get Channel 7 (no signal AT ALL) and Channel 11 (pixellation / freezing, not watchable). It's def. the antenna. but good to know it was at least the best among the three.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm lookin forward to your results with Winegard HD-1080.



I have the Terk HDTVa. I also used the HDTVi and they are both the best antennas I have used. Don't believe the myths spread here that all Terks are junk. Four miles from the ESB Channel 7 is the strongest of the high VHF channels. I am able to peak it in the low 70's. Channel 13 I can usually only get in the mid 50's and on a good day in the mid 60's but it does not break up. What is weird about channel 13 is that if I stand in front of the antenna I can get it in the mid 60's to sometimes the low 70's but as soon as I walk away it drops in the mid 50's. The highest I am able to peak channel 11 is in the low 50's and once again it is better when I stand in front of the antenna. Normally it is in the 40's and breaks up a lot and most of the time it is in the 20's. They need to do something about channel 11. It has been over a week and I still can't get it reliably.


----------



## hsweiss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Constable Odo* /forum/post/16690279
> 
> 
> Every apartment building in the NYC greater metro area should be required by law to put up a master antenna on the rooftops. I never lived in an apartment or project so I never realized that people had problems with reception for the major channels. I'd heard the term master antenna long time ago so I figured all the tall buildings had them up there. It's just crazy to offer people converter boxes and have almost nothing worthwhile to hook them up to.
> 
> 
> My 70+-year old god-aunt lives in a second-floor apartment in Brooklyn and she had to end up getting basic Cablevision because even though she had bought a converter box and an RCA 1500 (non-amp) Flat antenna, she couldn't get any decent signals due to the direction her apartment is facing. She always had a limited choice of stations, but this changeover really whacked her signals for her favorite shows. A pretty sad state of affairs for the elderly or limited income viewers.



Tell me about it.... My 97 year old mother (who still lives alone!) was complaining bitterly when I got her a converter box and swapped her antenna. She kept on complaining over and over about how the govt had no right to mess with TV and old people don't know what to do. And she was so right. All of her elderly neighbors have had to either resort to cable (which is avail in her building) or have someone install the convert box and play around with various antennas to make things work. She had a "window mount" antenna (remember those?) for the last 30 years or so that was marginal to begin with and over the years the elements have essentially disappeared leaving only a very small UHF element. While that worked for analog UHF it did nothing for digital. A flat RCA UFH in her window (which thankfully faces north toward the ESB) works great - even on the VHF stations (although WABC is a bit low in terms of signal but the Digital Stream box pulls it in an locks up just fine).


----------



## bronxota

Hi,


I'm located in the Bronx, 10465. About 10.7 miles from the Empire State Building transmitter.


Just put up a Winegard 7694P on the roof this weekend. Reception has been perfect on calm days. But the antenna is pointing straight into our neighbor's huge, ancient tree which is blocking a big portion of the field of view from our roof. On windy days it is unpredictable. Channel 4.1 WNBC (UHF 28) will usually be unusable, and there will often be problems with the other major networks, including some of the ones on VHF. But other channels will work fine.


Since this is obviously a challenging reception environment, I realize there may be nothing I can do. But since some channels continue to work fine, I'm tempted to try a pre-amp or a rotor. Is there a chance this will be worthwhile?


----------



## reddice

I am getting channel 13 stronger now. It is staying in the mid 60's.


----------



## kickass69

I'm out here in Lake Hopatcong/Jefferson Township and I'm 36.3 over-the-air miles from the ESB at an elevation of 1,100 feet. I got an RCA ANT525 indoor amplified UHF/VHF/FM antenna and I'm unable to get WNYW, WABC, WPIX, WNET, WPXN and WNJN/WNJB. WCBS, WNBC and WWOR come in perfectly..which is how I'm able to watch WNYW but I'm referencing getting direct signals. WMBC does come in perfectly but the spanish channels go in and out but I could care less about WMBC and the non-english channels. No matter what I mount the antenna...Which is facing northwest...which I know don't help any...Can't get the remaining channels when I could receive them clear enough to watch previously. I only got an 8 bar system for signal strength on this HDTV, no numbers. Those High VHF stations need to increase power big time.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16698735
> 
> 
> I have the Terk HDTVa. I also used the HDTVi and they are both the best antennas I have used. Don't believe the myths spread here that all Terks are junk. Four miles from the ESB Channel 7 is the strongest of the high VHF channels. I am able to peak it in the low 70's. Channel 13 I can usually only get in the mid 50's and on a good day in the mid 60's but it does not break up. What is weird about channel 13 is that if I stand in front of the antenna I can get it in the mid 60's to sometimes the low 70's but as soon as I walk away it drops in the mid 50's. The highest I am able to peak channel 11 is in the low 50's and once again it is better when I stand in front of the antenna. Normally it is in the 40's and breaks up a lot and most of the time it is in the 20's. They need to do something about channel 11. It has been over a week and I still can't get it reliably.



I find it very interesting. We both have some issues with those channels. You get decent Channel 7, I don't get it at all. Channel 11 has been weird, I had okay picture right after the transition but begain to pixelate and finally I was not able to pick up this morning. Channel 13, it's been between 65 to 80% for me as well.


We have the same antenna and live in about the same distance. What makes the difference between us for Channel 7, to a point Channel 11? The direction or me having more skyscrapers around me?


----------



## bronxota




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/16701241
> 
> 
> I'm out here in Lake Hopatcong/Jefferson Township and I'm 36.3 over-the-air miles from the ESB at an elevation of 1,100 feet. I got an RCA ANT525 indoor amplified UHF/VHF/FM antenna and I'm unable to get WNYW, WABC, WPIX, WNET, WPXN and WNJN/WNJB. WCBS, WNBC and WWOR come in perfectly..which is how I'm able to watch WNYW but I'm referencing getting direct signals. WMBC does come in perfectly but the spanish channels go in and out but I could care less about WMBC and the non-english channels. No matter what I mount the antenna...Which is facing northwest...which I know don't help any...Can't get the remaining channels when I could receive them clear enough to watch previously. I only got an 8 bar system for signal strength on this HDTV, no numbers. Those High VHF stations need to increase power big time.



I wouldn't expect any rabbit ear setup, amplified or not, to work at that distance from the ESB. In the Bronx at 10.7 miles from the ESB I couldn't pick up any VHF digital stations until I switched from rabbit ears to a rooftop setup. Now I am getting VHF ok, including 13, as long as the weather is calm (see my plea for help on windy days above!) The problem with VHF is not so much that the stations need to increase their output as it is the space required to build a VHF antenna that is electrically long enough, due to the long wavelength at that frequency. Nobody wants to put a VHF yagi indoors, but a simple UHF loop has relatively decent gain.


----------



## LenL

Lots of luck with that indoor antenna. I am closer than you by 6 miles and I have tried indoor versus outdoor and without question at our distance and indoor antenna IS NOT going to get you much reception! Amplified or not! Here is what I can now receive either directly into my HDTV or through my Channel Master converter box which will lock onto weaker signals better:


2.1

4.1

5,1

7.1

13.1 (sometimes)

25.1

31.1

42.1

50.1

58.1

63.1

68.1


And of course all the subchannels.


I have trouble receiving at all 9.1 and 11.1 at all.


----------



## JoeWS

From my location in Burlington County, NJ, I was receiving all NYC channels pre-transition on my outdoor UHF corner reflector. Since June 12th, I still get a very good signal on CBS2, NBC4, MY9, NYC25, NJN and WMBS63. Before adding a VHF-Hi antenna, I was wondering if there was anyone from this general area (60 miles SW) and what their experiences were on VHF (7, 11, and 13). I'm thinking about adding a YA-1713 in the near future if it's worth it.


----------



## nordloewelabs

where i live (NYC), i get UHF stations *very* well, but Hi-VHF reception is really bad. today i'll order the CM 3010 StealthTenna for use indoors. i want an amp too and i wonder if i should go with:


a) CM3038 (15dB gain. designed for StealthTenna)

b) CM7777 (big favourite on AVForums)


suggestions?


----------



## dvdchance

This may be obvious, but just checking. If I have a 3-way splitter, am I only getting 1/3 of the signal out to each TV?


I currently have an outdoor mid-80's RS VHF-UHF on the roof, then into a cheap RS 2505 amp. The output from the amp is sent to a 3-way splitter then on to the TV's.


Perhaps I'm lucky, but my reception is good. I get all the NY's fine, as well as 63 and 66 from North NJ, though on the farthest away TV it sometimes pixelates. TV Fool shows I'm 18 miles from ESB.


Are there any improvements to my setup that make sense? Replace the amp and splitter with a dist. amp? Or if it ain't broke don't mess with it.


Where I'm at is probably a bit too far to expect the Philly stations right? Shows as 64 miles from the Roxborough farm.


----------



## SnellKrell

Be careful with using powered (amplified) antennas.


It depends on how close you're located to the ESB and other transmission points.


Amplified signals will also heighten "noise" and can overload tuners.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i called Thirteen regarding the strength of their signal. the representative said:


"There are no plans to increase the power any further."


that sucks! that's one of my favourite stations.







i'll call them again later on to double-check that. ABC in Chicago increased power this weekend, so i guess they will do it in NYC too.


----------



## SnellKrell

You shouldn't compare the Chicago area's ability to have power increased with the New York DMA.


The northeast represents a whole set of problems that other parts of the country don't have.


I hope that we see in the NY DMA power increases, but don't hold your breath.


The answer for us may very well be in the implementation of fill-in transmission sites in various parts of the city.


WNJU (Channel 36) has received FCC permission to use what had been an experimental additional antenna atop 4TS. There is also another antenna, currently not in use, on the Bloomberg Building at Lexington Avenue @ 59th Street.


Whatever the solution, we desperately need help - the Hi-Vs are a tremendous problem to a lot of us!


----------



## kousikb

The Hi-VHF is a true POS for me. Even after I installed the CM3010 with CM3038 outdoor, I am still having problems receiving 7, 11, 13 consistently. Now CM3010 is known to be a good VHF antenna and its UHF gains are nothing to talk about. But still I get the UHF channels rock stable.. and the VHF channels a real PITA. Yesterday because of the cloudy weather everything was pixellated.. today I am getting 7, but 11 and 13 are heavily pixellated. I guess I will have to learn to live without 7 and 11. I was not getting 13 before.. so it doesn't matter much. One less viewer for 7 and 11.. I am not returning the CM3010 though... at least I am getting some signal, if they improve the signal or if the atomospheric conditions are good, I should be able to receive the Hi-VHF channels.


@nordlowelabs: Since you are in Manhattan, I think, you should be fine with a unamped CM4221 or even Eagle-aspen DB2 clone. The cm3010 might be little overkill.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16704938
> 
> 
> The Hi-VHF is a true POS for me. Even after I installed the CM3010 with CM3038 outdoor, I am still having problems receiving 7, 11, 13 consistently.
> 
> 
> @nordlowelabs: Since you are in Manhattan, I think, you should be fine with a unamped CM4221 or even Eagle-aspen DB2 clone. The cm3010 might be little overkill.



oh, man.... i was very hopeful about the CM3010 + amp.... i was ready to order it today from Amazon! now i'm not sure. the amplified RadioShack UFO gets me 40-50% sometimes. i was trying to get an improvement on that with the StealthTenna.


the DB2 is an UHF antenna. it would probably give me more trouble on the Hi-VHF front.


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16705000
> 
> 
> oh, man.... i was very hopeful about the CM3010 + amp.... i was ready to order it today from Amazon! now i'm not sure. the amplified RadioShack UFO gets me 40-50% sometimes. i was trying to get an improvement on that with the StealthTenna.
> 
> 
> the DB2 is an UHF antenna. it would probably give me more trouble on the Hi-VHF front.



The CM3010 provides very little gain for VHF-Hi. See the specs here:
http://www.solidsignal.com/channelma...enna_chart.asp


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16704460
> 
> 
> This may be obvious, but just checking. If I have a 3-way splitter, am I only getting 1/3 of the signal out to each TV?
> 
> 
> I currently have an outdoor mid-80's RS VHF-UHF on the roof, then into a cheap RS 2505 amp. The output from the amp is sent to a 3-way splitter then on to the TV's.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I'm lucky, but my reception is good. I get all the NY's fine, as well as 63 and 66 from North NJ, though on the farthest away TV it sometimes pixelates. TV Fool shows I'm 18 miles from ESB.
> 
> 
> Are there any improvements to my setup that make sense? Replace the amp and splitter with a dist. amp? Or if it ain't broke don't mess with it.
> 
> 
> Where I'm at is probably a bit too far to expect the Philly stations right? Shows as 64 miles from the Roxborough farm.



My electronics theory is a little fuzzy, but basically if you have a 3 way splitter, 1 port will be -3.5db loss and the other 2 will be -7 db loss. On the -3.5db port you will lose about 56% of the signal, while on the -7db port you will lose 80%. So that's why the amp probably helps you. Just make sure the splitter is rated up to at least 900MHZ.

As for cabling, you should have RG6 for best performance. RG59 is good until you get up into the UHF range where it starts to lose signal.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16705253
> 
> 
> My electronics theory is a little fuzzy, but basically if you have a 3 way splitter, 1 port will be -3.5db loss and the other 2 will be -7 db loss. On the -3.5db port you will lose about 56% of the signal, while on the -7db port you will lose 80%. So that's why the amp probably helps you. Just make sure the splitter is rated up to at least 900MHZ.
> 
> As for cabling, you should have RG6 for best performance. RG59 is good until you get up into the UHF range where it starts to lose signal.



there are 2 types of 3way splitter. uneven is 3.5, 7,7 loss. even is 5.5, 5.5, 5.5 loss


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16705253
> 
> 
> My electronics theory is a little fuzzy, but basically if you have a 3 way splitter, 1 port will be -3.5db loss and the other 2 will be -7 db loss. On the -3.5db port you will lose about 56% of the signal, while on the -7db port you will lose 80%. So that's why the amp probably helps you. Just make sure the splitter is rated up to at least 900MHZ.
> 
> As for cabling, you should have RG6 for best performance. RG59 is good until you get up into the UHF range where it starts to lose signal.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/16705285
> 
> 
> there are 2 types of 3way splitter. uneven is 3.5, 7,7 loss. even is 5.5, 5.5, 5.5 loss



Thanks, I was actually checking the splitter and saw the -3.5 and the 2 -7's there and now they started making sense.


I didn't know the loss was so great though. How come it works so well even with such a loss?


As a test I changed the cabling and switched the -3.5 to the close TV and rescanned, no difference.


The splitterer says 1000MHZ.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16705345
> 
> 
> Thanks, I was actually checking the splitter and saw the -3.5 and the 2 -7's there and now they started making sense.
> 
> 
> I didn't know the loss was so great though. How come it works so well even with such a loss?



Because the amp is boosting the signal, but it also boosts noise.


Try bypassing the amp and see if you still get the channels. You might not need the amp.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bronxota* /forum/post/16701321
> 
> 
> I wouldn't expect any rabbit ear setup, amplified or not, to work at that distance from the ESB. In the Bronx at 10.7 miles from the ESB I couldn't pick up any VHF digital stations until I switched from rabbit ears to a rooftop setup. Now I am getting VHF ok, including 13, as long as the weather is calm (see my plea for help on windy days above!) The problem with VHF is not so much that the stations need to increase their output as it is the space required to build a VHF antenna that is electrically long enough, due to the long wavelength at that frequency. Nobody wants to put a VHF yagi indoors, but a simple UHF loop has relatively decent gain.




As for VHF all you need is a OUT DOOR hi band only vhf & not a vhf covering lo & hi band. The hi band only is not that big. If you are on the side of the building facing the ESB then you will get a stronger signal thorugh the window on that side.


If you are on a high enough floor like 3rd or more floor, you can lay the high band under you bed.


If you have a closet is with a shelf over the coat hanger rod you can lay the high band vhf in there if the antenna is facing the right way when laying on that shelf.

I would not get an antenna with lo band elements on it. They are big with long elements & even if you do not care how they look; they have much more wind load on the mast. If they are in an attic they are a hard to find room to lay down.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16705178
> 
> 
> The CM3010 provides very little gain for VHF-Hi. See the specs here:
> http://www.solidsignal.com/channelma...enna_chart.asp



Right.. that why I used CM3038 to compensate the nagative gain for UHF and have some more for VHF. UHF comes fine.. even with a negative gain and the CM3038's 15db gain. VHF barely sneeks in. I can't obviously mount a big yagi antenna just for watching these VHF-Hi channels.


----------



## kickass69

LenL wrote:


"Lots of luck with that indoor antenna. I am closer than you by 6 miles and I have tried indoor versus outdoor and without question at our distance and indoor antenna IS NOT going to get you much reception! Amplified or not! Here is what I can now receive either directly into my HDTV or through my Channel Master converter box which will lock onto weaker signals better:


2.1

4.1

5,1

7.1

13.1 (sometimes)

25.1

31.1

42.1

50.1

58.1

63.1

68.1


And of course all the subchannels.


I have trouble receiving at all 9.1 and 11.1 at all."



Well atleast you get WNYW, WABC, WNET (sometimes), WNYE, WPXN (ION), 42.1 That's either WKOB-LP or WTXF (Fox 29) out of Philadelphia, and both NJN out of Montclair and New Brunswick.


I would've setup an outside antenna by now but someone else in this house despises them, no matter how much I explain they're better all around, no dice. A bit weird that I can't get WNJN 51 out of Montclair where TVFool puts me 23 miles from the transmitter as well as WFME where I'm 22.3 miles from the transmitter.


----------



## LenL

Correction to my list: 42.1 s/b 41.1.


I guess if you can't put an outside antenna up you will have to live with what you are getting.


I have a CM 4228 antenna and a CM7777 preamp and it's not all that big but it is a vertical antenna. Antenna's are one of those things that once you put them up you don;t notice them anymore. You kinda forget about them...


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16705178
> 
> 
> The CM3010 provides very little gain for VHF-Hi. See the specs here:
> http://www.solidsignal.com/channelma...enna_chart.asp



i believe it. however, the DB2 is an UHF antenna, therefore, its VHF gain is likely a lot lower than that of the CM3010.


the problem with the RCA ANT751 and the CM2016 is that they are very ugly for use indoors. which of those 3 antennas should i get? i need an antenna with "ok" UHF reception plus **great** Hi-VHF reception because 7, 11 and 13 are very problematic here.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/16707366
> 
> 
> LenL wrote:
> 
> 
> "Lots of luck with that indoor antenna. I am closer than you by 6 miles and I have tried indoor versus outdoor and without question at our distance and indoor antenna IS NOT going to get you much reception! Amplified or not! Here is what I can now receive either directly into my HDTV or through my Channel Master converter box which will lock onto weaker signals better:
> 
> 
> 2.1
> 
> 4.1
> 
> 5,1
> 
> 7.1
> 
> 13.1 (sometimes)
> 
> 25.1
> 
> 31.1
> 
> 42.1
> 
> 50.1
> 
> 58.1
> 
> 63.1
> 
> 68.1
> 
> 
> And of course all the subchannels.
> 
> 
> I have trouble receiving at all 9.1 and 11.1 at all."
> 
> 
> 
> Well atleast you get WNYW, WABC, WNET (sometimes), WNYE, WPXN (ION), 42.1 That's either WKOB-LP or WTXF (Fox 29) out of Philadelphia, and both NJN out of Montclair and New Brunswick.
> 
> 
> I would've setup an outside antenna by now but someone else in this house despises them, no matter how much I explain they're better all around, no dice. A bit weird that I can't get WNJN 51 out of Montclair where TVFool puts me 23 miles from the transmitter as well as WFME where I'm 22.3 miles from the transmitter.



Mileage is only part of the equation. Line of site plays a key role in determining reliable reception at these frequencies. WNJN & WFME might be on the right side of a mountain that is otherwise blocking your ability to see the signal. I live about 25 miles north of Manhattan and never had trouble with channel 50 analog when they were running full power. Now that they're digital I had to turn my antenna a few degrees west to receive WNJN and weather condx still determine whether I receive a clean signal from Montclair or not. WMBC is hit and miss now and WFME is solid. I still receive all NYC signals with no issues (They don't freeze or pixilate) but I am of the opinion that WNJN is not running full power at this time. I believe they broadcast from a tower on a mountain viewable from the Garden State west of the Rt 3 exit. According to the FCC projection I am well within their coverage area.


----------



## kickass69

Well my elevation should help, aside from one of the higher hills prolly in my way in the a mile to mile and a half out....You got to go up Mase Mountain going up Route 15 off of I-80 on top of me being on one of the many hills surrounding Lake Hopatcong..which is why my elevation is at 1,100 feet. If I was in between the hills up here I probably be lucky to get even one channel....even with the elevation. I remember when I used to get NYC, Philly and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton stations when it was still in analog.


----------



## dagger666

Well I'm back in NY and found i can't get channel 11 or 7 anymore and I'm 13 miles from the city. I'm using a mono price UHF/VHF indoor/outdoor antenna. It worked fine for all UHF but i could never get VHF high band very well. Looks like i got a lot of work moving the antennas around to get each TV working. 2 Emerson HDTV and the rest DTVPALs.


----------



## reddice

The only high VHF channel I can't get at all or very weak is channel 11. I don't understand because I get channels 7 and 13 good and they are all on the same antenna on the same building. I think that channel 11 is running at lower power. This is with the Terk HDTVa but the HDTVi gave me the same results.


----------



## reddice

By the way what tuners are all of you using? I have a Toshiba Regza TV 2008 32" 1080p model. If my signal drops below 45% it drops out.


----------



## kickass69

I got a Samsung Syncmaster T200HD over here using an RCA ANT525 UHF/VHF/FM indoor antenna.


----------



## peterlee

I live on the 10th floor and south side of a building on 57th and 11th Ave in Manhattan. I would have a line-of-sight view of the Empire State Building except for a single building obstructing the way. I can get channels 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25, 47, 63 and 68 with very strong signals and if I shift my Terk HDTVa around, I can get a couple more channels. However, the ONE channel that is almost impossible to get without compromises is Fox 5. I mean that I can receive it but I either lose reception of other channels or if I want to keep all my channels, I have to open a window. I found one position where I managed to get all the channels without opening a window but the next day, it wasn't working. Reception of Fox 5 is extremely sensitive in my place; one day it's fine, the next, I have to shift around to get it again. None of the other channels are so sensitive.


----------



## moonstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peterlee* /forum/post/16709973
> 
> 
> I live on the 10th floor and south side of a building on 57th and 11th Ave in Manhattan. I would have a line-of-sight view of the Empire State Building except for a single building obstructing the way. I can get channels 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25, 47, 63 and 68 with very strong signals and if I shift my Terk HDTVa around, I can get a couple more channels. However, the ONE channel that is almost impossible to get without compromises is Fox 5. I mean that I can receive it but I either lose reception of other channels or if I want to keep all my channels, I have to open a window. I found one position where I managed to get all the channels without opening a window but the next day, it wasn't working. Reception of Fox 5 is extremely sensitive in my place; one day it's fine, the next, I have to shift around to get it again. None of the other channels are so sensitive.



Reddice, you, and me live very close and have the same antenna. It seems like it's the DIRECTION that determins it. You guys can get 7.1, I can't get 7.1 no matter what I do and 11.1 is now hardly tunable. I have no problem getting 5.1 and other channels at the same time (except Hi VHF 7.1 and 11.1) lol.


----------



## dagger666

If i leave the TV on channel 7 it does pick it up but takes around 20-30 seconds and is all blocky. Why did they have to movie back in the first place, everything was fine before. Channel 9 must have done nothing because they haven't seem to change. I can't understand why the DTVPAL in the kitchen lost so many stations since channel 2 didn't movie. So out of 7.9,11 and 13, who is pushing full power and who isn't? I had to move my antenna the first time for channel digital 13 and now looks like i need to move it again for 7,9.11 and 13. Also channel 21 is giving me problems but that was always a hit or miss depending on the weather.


----------



## LenL

I am currently splitting my signal and sending it to a 32" and 45" Sharp HDTV on different floors. I find the tuners of both TVs to give me close to the same results. I also have 3 converter boxes ( DTVPAL, Channel Master and Zenith) which I can use if needed. I have one analog TV not hooked up right now as splitting the signal 3 ways really hurts reception. Of the 3 converter boxes I found the CM the one I like the best as it has S-Video which give the best picture when hooked to my HDTV. I have used it connected to one of my Sharp TVs as it will tune in and lock in a marginal signal better. Right now I pulled it so I can see what the signal strength is right to the TV over the next month or so. I still have basic cable service that I want to cancel if I can get decent results over the next month. Right now not getting 11.1 is not a problem as we don't really watch that channel.


I'm now considering getting the DTVPAL DVR if still available for purchase and wonder how people in the NY area getting OTA are doing with this DVR. I know there is another forum devoted to this but you can't get a sense of the results in the NY area as comments come from all over the country.


Right now I'm figuring if I need to record a show I have to hook up my converter boxes and send the analog signal to my VCRS and HDTVS or split the signals again which will then cause reception problems!


----------



## dagger666

On my DTVPAL channel 7 and 13 are now 73-01 and 76-01, is this right? My Emerson HDTV can't pick up these channels but still channel 11 is no were to be found.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16710842
> 
> 
> I am currently splitting my signal and sending it to a 32" and 45" Sharp HDTV on different floors. I find the tuners of both TVs to give me close to the same results. I also have 3 converter boxes ( DTVPAL, Channel Master and Zenith) which I can use if needed. I have one analog TV not hooked up right now as splitting the signal 3 ways really hurts reception. Of the 3 converter boxes I found the CM the one I like the best as it has S-Video which give the best picture when hooked to my HDTV. I have used it connected to one of my Sharp TVs as it will tune in and lock in a marginal signal better. Right now I pulled it so I can see what the signal strength is right to the TV over the next month or so. I still have basic cable service that I want to cancel if I can get decent results over the next month. Right now not getting 11.1 is not a problem as we don't really watch that channel.
> 
> 
> I'm now considering getting the DTVPAL DVR if still available for purchase and wonder how people in the NY area getting OTA are doing with this DVR. I know there is another forum devoted to this but you can't get a sense of the results in the NY area as comments come from all over the country.
> 
> 
> Right now I'm figuring if I need to record a show I have to hook up my converter boxes and send the analog signal to my VCRS and HDTVS or split the signals again which will then cause reception problems!



1. As to the weak signal when running all your TV's, you don't mention if you're using an amp. If you're not, then try adding a RS 15-2505 (10dB variable gain, ? noise) before the splitter. If that seems to make the difference for you return it and order a Channel Master HDP 269 from Sound Signal (12 dB fixed gain, 3 dB noise)


2. From what I understand the tuners in converter boxes are in general better than those in TV's. However, putting a converter box up-stream of your HDTV is limiting the resolution to only 480, *these will not pass a full HD signal!* Boost the signal so the TV tuner(s) can get a lock. (That would tear my heart out to have to watch SD on an HDTV!







)


3. I cannot attest to the performance of the tuners in the DTVPAL DVR but I'd venture a guess they're similar to the converter boxes. At least it does pass (and record) HD, and is available from Sound Signal for $245.99 + $9.95 S/H (no tax here in NY/NJ)
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...prod=DTVPalDVR


----------



## LenL

Thanks for the follow-up comments.


I am using a CM4228 antenna and a CM7777 preamp before the splitter. Of course I could do a little better by not splitting the signal but then I can't watch TV on the second set unless I add another antenna. That remains and option.


Yes the CM Converter BOX with the S-Video into the Sharp TV loses some of the quality but you would really be surprised at the quality and I bet it would fool some people into thinking it is HD quality. That's how good it is.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/16710993
> 
> 
> On my DTVPAL channel 7 and 13 are now 73-01 and 76-01, is this right? My Emerson HDTV can't pick up these channels but still channel 11 is no were to be found.



You need to do a factory reset of your DTVPal. I had this problem too, and so have others. It's some sort of bug in the DTVPal. If you do a factory reset, 7 and 13 will be available on their normal PSIP channel numbers.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16704460
> 
> 
> This may be obvious, but just checking. If I have a 3-way splitter, am I only getting 1/3 of the signal out to each TV?
> 
> 
> I currently have an outdoor mid-80's RS VHF-UHF on the roof, then into a cheap RS 2505 amp. The output from the amp is sent to a 3-way splitter then on to the TV's.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I'm lucky, but my reception is good. I get all the NY's fine, as well as 63 and 66 from North NJ, though on the farthest away TV it sometimes pixelates. TV Fool shows I'm 18 miles from ESB.
> 
> 
> Are there any improvements to my setup that make sense? Replace the amp and splitter with a dist. amp? Or if it ain't broke don't mess with it.
> 
> 
> Where I'm at is probably a bit too far to expect the Philly stations right? Shows as 64 miles from the Roxborough farm.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16705253
> 
> 
> My electronics theory is a little fuzzy, but basically if you have a 3 way splitter, 1 port will be -3.5db loss and the other 2 will be -7 db loss. On the -3.5db port you will lose about 56% of the signal, while on the -7db port you will lose 80%. So that's why the amp probably helps you. Just make sure the splitter is rated up to at least 900MHZ.
> 
> As for cabling, you should have RG6 for best performance. RG59 is good until you get up into the UHF range where it starts to lose signal.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16705345
> 
> 
> Thanks, I was actually checking the splitter and saw the -3.5 and the 2 -7's there and now they started making sense.
> 
> 
> I didn't know the loss was so great though. How come it works so well even with such a loss?
> 
> 
> As a test I changed the cabling and switched the -3.5 to the close TV and rescanned, no difference.
> 
> 
> The splitterer says 1000MHZ.



Your unequal split 3-way is actually two 2-ways, thus you have a 50% power loss (3dB) on one leg (Plus insertion loss of another 0.5dB) and then into another 2-way thus dividing that 50% signal in half again, plus another 0.5dB insertion loss, coming out at 7dB total on the last two legs.


This may seem obvious, but you should send the stronger signal (3.5dB leg) to the furthest TV.


If you really want to improve the system, trash the 2505 and add a Winegard mast mounted amp. The HDP 269 (12dB gain, 3dB noise) would be comparable to the RS 15-2505 (10dB gain, ? noise) and will almost surely give you better performance. If you don't have any close stations that may overload you may get better results with the CM7777. (But if what you have now is _basically_ working a 269 should do the job.)


The most important change you'd be making is getting the amp up close to the antenna where it will do the most good. You are then amplifying the signal *before* it falls lower into noise through loss in your cable run. (Which S/B RG-6 as mikepier mentioned.)


You should see a significant difference.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16711417
> 
> 
> Thanks for the follow-up comments.
> 
> 
> I am using a CM4228 antenna and a CM7777 preamp before the splitter. Of course I could do a little better by not splitting the signal but then I can't watch TV on the second set unless I add another antenna. That remains and option.
> 
> 
> Yes the CM Converter BOX with the S-Video into the Sharp TV loses some of the quality but you would really be surprised at the quality and I bet it would fool some people into thinking it is HD quality. That's how good it is.



You're quite welcome LenL. However something smells rotten in Denmark. I suspect you may be overloading the amp, you've got some pretty strong signals according to TVFool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...618a214d354844 

Is that accurate for your location? If so you should definitely be able to get 2 TV's out of one antenna. Just for giggles you may want to try taking the amp out of the equation altogether. Or try something with a bit less gain that is less susceptible to overload. Maybe the Winegard HDP 269, as was recommended for me. (I'm out on LI and have strong signals from Smithtown to deal with.)


I assume you're running all RG-6 cable? (And not several hundred feet of it.)


When you split are you having trouble with only ch-7, 11 & 13, or all UHF also? (The CM4228 has limited reception down in hi VHF as I understand.)

If without the amp you get all your UHF but find the VHF needs a bump, you could try the AP 3700: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=AP3700 

17 dB gain, VHF (UHF is bypassed) 2.6 dB noise. (I assume when they say UHF is bypassed that means it is still present at the output, just not amplified. Can anyone else verify this?)


P.S. I'll buy that with a clean 480i SD signal it's hard to tell the difference on your 32", (And on that size it would be all but impossible to tell 720 from 1080) but on the 45" it ought to make a difference.


----------



## LenL

Thanks again for the suggestions some of which others gave me on this forum as a result of a previous post I made.


A few Sundays ago I had my daughter unhook the CM7777 preamp and went without the preamp and I received ZERO stations. Not one. So the idea that I don't need the preamp is not true. Unless there is something else going on. I too thought I should get something. But not one station? Seemed strange.


I do receive channel 7 and it is quite good with only an occasional blip. Just checked and signal strength is 61%. Channel 13.1 and 58.1 (Both hi VHF) are mid 40% right now.


I am running rg6 quadcore.


The runs are about 50' to the first floor TV and 100' to the second floor TV.


Actually I used the CM converter box with the s-Video to my 45" Sharp HD LCD TV and the picture quality was very close to HD. Very, very impressive.


As far as TVFOOL when I plug in my actual address my results are much different and worse.


I think I have addressed all of you questions and suggestions.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16713063
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the suggestions some of which others gave me on this forum as a result of a previous post I made.
> 
> 
> A few Sundays ago I had my daughter unhook the CM7777 preamp and went without the preamp and I received ZERO stations. Not one. So the idea that I don't need the preamp is not true. Unless there is something else going on. I too thought I should get something. But not one station? Seemed strange.
> 
> 
> I do receive channel 7 and it is quite good with only an occasional blip. Just checked and signal strength is 61%. Channel 13.1 and 58.1 (Both hi VHF) are mid 40% right now.
> 
> 
> I am running rg6 quadcore.
> 
> 
> The runs are about 50' to the first floor TV and 100' to the second floor TV.
> 
> 
> Actually I used the CM converter box with the s-Video to my 45" Sharp HD LCD TV and the picture quality was very close to HD. Very, very impressive.
> 
> 
> As far as TVFOOL when I plug in my actual address my results are much different and worse.
> 
> 
> I think I have addressed all of you questions and suggestions.



Nothing without the amp?







When you say she "unhooked" it, did she take it completely out of the line? (Meaning: taking the cables off the amp and hooking them together, and removing the power injector)


Could you post a link to your exact TVFool results? (Your address won't show, only the zip.) Now my curiosity is peaked!


And that's pretty cool about the CM converter having such a good pic on a 45"!


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16709373
> 
> 
> By the way what tuners are all of you using? .



Equipment here is a DirecTV H-20 with built in OTA tuner (HD, HDMI, progressive output), Samsung HTB-H260F (HD, HDMI, progressive output), CM 7000 (SD, S-Video out), and a Hauppague WinTV-HVR 950 HD USB plugin tuner (comes with its own HD PVR software and auto tuning)


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeWS* /forum/post/16704203
> 
> 
> From my location in Burlington County, NJ, I was receiving all NYC channels pre-transition on my outdoor UHF corner reflector. Since June 12th, I still get a very good signal on CBS2, NBC4, MY9, NYC25, NJN and WMBS63. Before adding a VHF-Hi antenna, I was wondering if there was anyone from this general area (60 miles SW) and what their experiences were on VHF (7, 11, and 13). I'm thinking about adding a YA-1713 in the near future if it's worth it.



I'm near Toms River with an old VU-210 about 100' ASL with all the vhf elements removed except for channel 13's. Winegard preamp. I get all the hi-V stuff from Empire OK. Can't get WPVI though. Analog channel 2 and 4 are pretty noisy but still there.


----------



## LenL

Here is my TVFOOL link for you....

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...618a3e92413f8e 


My daughter unhooked it at the antenna and I unhooked it from the power module inside and so it went from the antenna to the TV. I doubled checked everything but I could have messed up...don't think so though. I really expected much better results.


I might do another test with another antenna that I have (UHF ONLY) that I can mount. I just need some standoffs and a pole. I can mount this at another location so it does not interfere with the existing antenna. I also have a spare CM7777 preamp that I can use as needed.


----------



## akahooper

Very interesting...

Well, according to *that* TVFool you should definitely be able to get *something* without an amp...


At my location, according to TVFool, WLIW (Garden City) is 30.6 miles out, with an NM of 21.0dB and I was able to pick it up with my homemade Grey-Hoverman on the first try - at ground level, and without any amp. Only difference is for me it's 1 edge, for you they are all 2 edge.


Funny, when I run your zip without an exact address and an antenna height of 40' I get considerably worse results still: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...618a186513a598 

But even on this report (approx 1-1/4 miles west of you) it looks like you should at least be be able to pick up WMBC (and WABC with a VHF antenna) without an amp.


Just for giggles I looked at antennaweb.org, and your zip on a multiple story bldg shows *no stations* avail at all. (Although they do usually seem overly pessimistic.)


I have read elsewhere however that sometimes TVFool can appear overly optimistic, and cannot always be trusted - maybe this is just one of those cases? The fact that there is such variation in your immediate area kind of says some weird stuff is happening, for whatever reason. Multipath maybe? Hey, that other UHF antenna you have isn't by chance a 91XG is it? That married to a Winegard YA 1317 for VHF into your CM7777 would probably do a better job than your CM4228 all around. (According to TVFool 10 more feet of height would get you almost 3dB more signal too!







)


If you're going to do some more testing you might want to try and aim for analog 64 (WASA) and see if/how you can pick it up, as this shows *completely* different levels on the two reports.


----------



## LenL

While I'm at an elevation of around 700' above sea level I'm on the downside of a hill about 100 feet below the top of the hill which is about 300 feet from the antenna with some trees also in front of me. So I don't have any LOS to the ESB. These factors are contributing to my reception issues.


The UHF antenna for my experiment has no name. I will have to take a picture and post it so you can see that and also my present antenna setup.


Also I currently receive analog 64 with lots of snow. Well enough though to see the items being sold.


----------



## akahooper

Yea that hill explains your difficulties, you're depending on 100% refraction.

All things considered, you're actually not doing too bad. (If only you were on the other side of that hill...)


Post a pic of the UHF antenna, maybe we can pin-point what it is and find its performance specs.


And you're getting analog 64 with lots of snow? I'm surprised you're getting it at all! It's 119 degrees off axis from the ESB aim!!! Must be a reflection off the hill somehow - it looks like that direction would be in quite a null for a 4228, if I remember the beam pattern.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peterlee* /forum/post/16709973
> 
> 
> I live on the 10th floor and south side of a building on 57th and 11th Ave in Manhattan. I would have a line-of-sight view of the Empire State Building except for a single building obstructing the way. I can get channels 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25, 47, 63 and 68 with very strong signals and if I shift my Terk HDTVa around, I can get a couple more channels. However, the ONE channel that is almost impossible to get without compromises is Fox 5. I mean that I can receive it but I either lose reception of other channels or if I want to keep all my channels, I have to open a window. I found one position where I managed to get all the channels without opening a window but the next day, it wasn't working. Reception of Fox 5 is extremely sensitive in my place; one day it's fine, the next, I have to shift around to get it again. None of the other channels are so sensitive.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moonstar* /forum/post/16710081
> 
> 
> Reddice, you, and me live very close and have the same antenna. It seems like it's the DIRECTION that determins it. You guys can get 7.1, I can't get 7.1 no matter what I do and 11.1 is now hardly tunable. I have no problem getting 5.1 and other channels at the same time (except Hi VHF 7.1 and 11.1) lol.



Man, reading both of your issues makes me feel very lucky (Astoria, Queens, here).


----------



## AloEuro

Ch.25-1 is big surprise,good programming, sometime equal to wnet13 and 25-2 that's

suplemental visual Weather report.

wABC7-3 on left side there is hour-video-temperature, many times the video gives

misinformation, showing rain(or snow) wherein outside is none, tune in 25-2 you verify

accuracy, doublecheck of 7-3, some camera show windshield wipers on cars on Qboro bridge, other used to show I think 42nd st. Lexington crossing, you can see if people

carry umbrellas

And now showing Times Sq. from 47st, it feels like walking there myself.


----------



## LenL

I have some pictures for you of my existing antenna and the UHF which I have inside and have been testing inside.


When I took the pictures I realized that when I was at the top of the hill that my antenna is actually high enough that it almost but not quite is eye level with the top of the hill. So while I do have issues with trees my situation with the hill is not so bad.



I think I uploaded pictures for you....


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16727316
> 
> 
> I have some pictures for you of my existing antenna and the UHF which I have inside and have been testing inside.
> 
> 
> When I took the pictures I realized that when I was at the top of the hill that my antenna is actually high enough that it almost but not quite is eye level with the top of the hill. So while I do have issues with trees my situation with the hill is not so bad.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I uploaded pictures for you....



One looks like PACMAN


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm here!


So, I've arrived in town (Fair Lawn) for a day or two before heading off to PA. Last time I was here, there was still regular analog broadcasting, so here's the breakdown of what I'm seeing.


Coming in great: WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WNYE, WPXN, WXTV, WNJN, WMBC, WFUT

Coming in with some effort: WABC, WNET, WNYN-LD, WFME

Unusable: WPIX, WNJU


WNYN and WFME require specific antenna placement that often loses one or more other stations. WABC and WNET require the rabbit ears and do not get above 75% (60% needed to decode). WPIX barely broke 60% in a specific position that I have since been unable to duplicate.


Oddly, I cannot lock WNJU at all, nothing above 30%. I don't recall them being so difficult in the past, though I could be wrong. I'm wondering if the DTS setup is creating artificial multipath and screwing me up.


I cannot see any hint of signal from WPXO-LD 34, and I was hoping for decent reception from them. I didn't expect to see WBQM-LD 3 or WNYZ-LD 6, but I looked for them as well.


Coming through Paterson, I locked WLNY-DT 47 (55-1) on my Zenith for a few seconds. I was shocked that it covered all that ground, but I cannot find any signal now. Looking at the TV Fool maps, it looks like there's a few tiny dots where WLNY has signal in the Paterson area, and the rest of NJ (other than Alpine) is pretty much cut off.


All of these were using the Silver Sensor for UHF, generic rabbit ears for VHF, and without the aid of my CM7777 amp. I may try the amp tomorrow.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

So many people having problems with WNJU and WFME. I can get peak those stations at 96% which peeves me off for that 480i old geezer moldy old organ music bible babble station is freaking 15 miles away and I get it so strong. Meanwhile stations like WPIX which is non existent, WNBC which is weak only 4 miles away I struggle to get At least WNJU is in 1080i and the HD content looks great but I don't speak or understand Spanish.


----------



## martianpete

Is anyone experiencing the same thing as me this week? Every night around 12:45am WCBS 2.1 and all of the WNBC stations 4.1, 2 & 4 are going dead. They come back by the morning but I can't watch what I want to watch at this time.


It was manageable before the switchover because when it happened, I'd just tune to the analog ch. 2 or 4 and just deal with it. But now, no analog…no TV. Sheesh, you think they'd have it together by now. They had a 5 month delay on Feb 19 to iron out the kinks.


----------



## kickass69

I read somewhere that exactly at midnight they're doing work on the ESB antenna and they all go to backup transmitters at lower power or shutting down transmitters altogether until around 4-5 AM. I notice it when I listen to WCBS-FM, right at midnight, I can only hear sound out of one speaker and it gets statically like they flipped a switch. Prolly related to the DTV transition but it ends up effecting even radio.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16728753
> 
> 
> [...] WNBC which is weak only 4 miles away I struggle to get



i'm sure this can be fixed by moving the antenna to a different spot. i'm saying this because NBC is on UHF and nobody seems to have a problem with its signal. besides, you are only 4 miles away from the transmitter.


this week i made an interesting discovery. i built a simple 12-AWG "Folded Dipole" antenna of 74cm (optimal for RF-9). if i hang it on the cabinet door in the kitchen, 8" off the floor and in an angle of 45-deg with the wall in front of it, i can get WNET-13 (hi-VHF) with a signal of 70%!!! the best that i had gotten before was a mere 40%, when i used the UFO at different spot.


this shows that you really need to play around with the antenna(s) that you have till you find the sweet spot in your apartment. remember, i had to place my home-made FD approx 8" off the floor to get Ch-13.... at a height of 10" i got nothing! you really need to try all heights, all angles, all distances from the walls. the number of possibilities is almost endless, i know, but somewhere in your home there's a sweet spot and an even "sweeter spot". took me 5 antennas (home-made Loop, home-made Folded Dipole, TV55, HDTVa and UFO) plus 3 weeks to find mine! too bad such spot is right in the middle of the kitchen!


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *martianpete* /forum/post/16728761
> 
> 
> Is anyone experiencing the same thing as me this week? Every night around 12:45am WCBS 2.1 and all of the WNBC stations 4.1, 2 & 4 are going dead. They come back by the morning but I can't watch what I want to watch at this time.



the 3 channels were fine when i checked them at 1am.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Oddly, I cannot lock WNJU at all, nothing above 30%. I don't recall them being so difficult in the past, though I could be wrong. I'm wondering if the DTS setup is creating artificial multipath and screwing me up."


Trip, in my case, the station was not difficult to receive at all. Ever since the DTS additional facility on 4TS was fired up, the station is absent. At the same time, others have reported that for the first time they're receiving 36. Had really hoped that DTS would not have these negatives - it could be the answer to the Hi-V problem so many of us are enduring.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16729256
> 
> 
> "Oddly, I cannot lock WNJU at all, nothing above 30%. I don't recall them being so difficult in the past, though I could be wrong. I'm wondering if the DTS setup is creating artificial multipath and screwing me up."



You hit the nail exactly on it's head. DTS and the associated uncorrectible multipath is shaping up as the next example of poor engineering related to DTV.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16729315
> 
> 
> You hit the nail exactly on it's head. DTS and the associated uncorrectible multipath is shaping up as the next example of poor engineering related to DTV.



Thank you for the credit, but it belongs to Trip!


----------



## DTVintermods

It does. And I hope he reports further on DTS--the Emperor's new cloth


----------



## Trip in VA

I think the problem with DTS and WNJU-DT is that it's being done with too much power. WTVE-DT in Reading PA has a DTS with 8 transmitters that works just fine. The stations have very limited overlap, and most of them have power levels of less than 5 kW ERP. I locked WTVE-DTS5 on the way here (while moving!), though I think WTVE-DTS2 is off the air as I saw zero signal for it even though I was looking at the tower and being shadowed by mountains on all other sides.


DTS can work as long as it's done properly, and I'm not convinced that WNJU's DTS is being done properly.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16729384
> 
> 
> 
> DTS can work as long as it's done properly, and I'm not convinced that WNJU's DTS is being done properly.
> 
> 
> - Trip



DTS can work only in the shadowed area of the main Tx or where there's no overlap of on-channel decodable signals.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16729416
> 
> 
> DTS can work only in the shadowed area of the main Tx or where there's no overlap of on-channel decodable signals.



Bingo.


Today, I'm hoping to stop in Alpine and get the Long Island stations. I do not have any data for WLIW-DT and I'd be curious to see if WLNY-DT has any Mobile DTV feeds yet.


Oh, and I noted that WPXN-DT already appears to have Mobile DTV running. I have yet to post the new TSReader captures on my site, but I'm seeing a feed at 0x1fe9 (I think) that has a usage that is a multiple of 0.917 Mbps, thus indicating Mobile DTV. I wish I could decode it so I knew what was on it...


- Trip


----------



## jpg7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16728489
> 
> 
> Coming in great: WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WNYE, WPXN, WXTV, WNJN, WMBC, WFUT
> 
> Coming in with some effort: WABC, WNET, WNYN-LD, WFME
> 
> Unusable: WPIX, WNJU



Not sure how much you can trust last night's reception - there was a lot of DX going on. I got a brief lock on KYW Philadelphia (RF 26, 3.1) and a watchable signal from the NJN out of Trenton (RF 43, 52.1) but most significantly a good hour straight of solid watchable WLVT PBS 39 out of Lehigh Valley, PA. And this is in Brooklyn with a set of rabbit ears.

Note I've never had a peep of the 39 low power from Long Island City.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'll be looking at it again today. Right now I'm sitting in the hair salon that we came here for (the barber back home did not do a good job cutting my sister's hair) and on the way back we'll be stopping at Alpine. I'll try reception from my grandparents' house again later in the afternoon when I get back.


- Trip


----------



## MeatChicken

Looks like New HD VHF stations are comming to the NYC market (VHF CH 3 , Times Square Antenna), & The Philadelphia market, VHF CH 2.

_From Northeast Radio Watch:_


" In the 1980's, an amendment to the Communications Act of 1933 established a way for states with no commercial VHF stations - a list that included only New Jersey and Delaware - to gain such operations: it provided that any licensee that notified the FCC that it was willing to accept reallocation to a VHF-less state would immediately be granted a license for the moved operation, bypassing just about every other provision of the Act except for spacing requirements.


The provision was very narrowly targeted, aimed entirely at moving New York's *WOR-TV (Channel 9) to Secaucus, N.J*., a move owner RKO accepted in order to be allowed to sell the station instead of losing the license....

But long after channel 9 made the move - and long after it was clear that the "move" didn't prevent channel 9, now WWOR, from continuing to be a "New York" station, transmitting from Manhattan, and serving the entire metro area - *the rule stayed on the books, apparently never to be used again.*

With the DTV transition looming, though, the lawyers at Fletcher, Heald and Hildreth spotted an opportunity: since WWOR's digital signal is now on channel 38, New Jersey would end up once again bereft of VHF stations. With the channel 2 stations in New York City and Baltimore vacating that spot, and channel 3 in Philadelphia and Hartford going empty as well, there was suddenly spectrum available for VHF allotments in both New Jersey and Delaware!...and a law on the books that appeared to give that spectrum to any station willing to make the move, just for the asking."


"That's the long way around to explaining why *NEW JERSEY's Press Communications has quietly bought two tiny TV stations out west - NBC affiliate KJWY (Channel 2) in Jackson, Wyoming and independent KVNV (Channel 3) in Ely, Nevada - and why it's apparently poised to move those stations right into the heart of the Philadelphia and New York TV markets, respectively.*

The 1980's FCC rules, still valid, would seem to require the FCC to grant these NJ company Purchased stations VHF stations immediate license/transfer to NJ & Delware ( Xmitiing from Manhattan & Phila) .... & they are in the process of filing right now...


"And so Press notified the FCC last Monday that it was "willing to accept" reallocations that would move KJWY's channel 2 from Jackson to Wilmington, Delaware, and KVNV's channel 3 from Ely to Middletown Township, New Jersey - with strongly-worded language making it clear that it believes the Commisson is compelled by the language of Section 331(a) of the Communications Act to immediately grant those moves.


It should come as no surprise, of course, that the new "Delaware" and "New Jersey" stations would have their sights set on the bigger markets next door: *Channel 2 would transmit with 10 kW/845' from the Roxborough tower farm in Philadelphia, while Channel 3 would have 10 kW/860' from the Four Times Square tower in Manhattan, making both signals full-market (within the limitations of low-band VHF) in their respective markets.*


What's in it for the people of Delaware and New Jersey? Probably not all that much: in a Delaware newspaper interview, Press CEO Bob McAllan (the managing member of "PMCM, LLC," the licensee of KJWY and KVNV) wouldn't even go so far as to commit to local studios in either state, promising only that the stations' programming, once moved, "might be something you haven't seen before." Given the FCC's current lax requirements for local news - and the lack of a requirement for a main studio in the city of license, a rule that at least obliged WWOR to move its studio from Times Square to Secaucus back in the day - it appears, to us at least, that there's little to stop the new channel 3 and channel 2 from setting up shop right in Manhattan and Philadelphia, respectively, yielding new stations in those cities at an amazing bargain price: PMCM paid just $1.2 million for those two licenses in Nevada and Wyoming, and surely far less than that for the legal work to get the stations moved... "


----------



## MeatChicken

Looks like there may soon be an HD VHF ch - 3 from the Times Square antenna:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158621


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16730700
> 
> 
> Looks like there may soon be an HD VHF ch - 3 from the Times Square antenna:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158621



how will they overcome the inherent problems of ATSC on Lo-VHF?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16730769
> 
> 
> how will they overcome the inherent problems of ATSC on Lo-VHF?



They won't. I'm sure they just want cable carriage.


- Trip


----------



## andgarden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16730769
> 
> 
> how will they overcome the inherent problems of ATSC on Lo-VHF?



If they're smart, they'll use the WPVI precedent to crank up the power.


----------



## nordloewelabs

here is an interesting thread on tweaking UHF antennas for Hi-VHF reception.

some interesting ideas on how to tinker with the C2 and DB4.

*Ideas on how to turn a UHF antenna into a UHF/VHF antenna.*
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1155233


----------



## Trip in VA

WLNY and WNJU are broadcasting Mobile DTV, as far as I can tell.


- Trip


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16730769
> 
> 
> how will they overcome the inherent problems of ATSC on Lo-VHF?



While not as optimum as VHF-Hi or UHF, This will no doubt still be a powerhouse station able to be received by hugh numbers of people in the NY/NJ area, & being a major local broadcast channnel, that gets them on all the major cable systems in the area as well...


----------



## andgarden

One concern about putting it on Channel 3 is that it might interfere with a bunch of cable boxes, etc. (devices that modulate in analog).


Really it would make sense to put the ch. 3 station in Philadelphia (which has always had a channel 3 and always set its modulators to ch. 4) and put the ch. 2 station in NY.


----------



## ChrisPC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MeatChicken* /forum/post/16730543
> 
> 
> Looks like New HD VHF stations are comming to the NYC market (VHF CH 3 , Times Square Antenna), & The Philadelphia market, VHF CH 2.
> 
> _From Northeast Radio Watch:_
> 
> 
> 
> The 1980's FCC rules, still valid, would seem to require the FCC to grant these NJ company Purchased stations VHF stations immediate license/transfer to NJ & Delware ( Xmitiing from Manhattan & Phila) .... & they are in the process of filing right now...
> 
> 
> "And so Press notified the FCC last Monday that it was "willing to accept" reallocations that would move KJWY's channel 2 from Jackson to Wilmington, Delaware, and KVNV's channel 3 from Ely to Middletown Township, New Jersey.



People were wondering why those two stations were applying to move so far. This explains it. Good luck with using those low-band DTVs!


----------



## nordloewelabs

do they have to use RF 2 and 3? cant they just use RF-9 and PSIP it as Ch-19 or something?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16732016
> 
> 
> do they have to use RF 2 and 3? cant they just use RF-9 and PSIP it as Ch-19 or something?



9 is not available. Too close to WBPH, WEDN, and WTNH.


- Trip


----------



## andgarden

BTW, in theory there's no reason why a ch. 4 and ch.5 couldn't be done in the same way.


----------



## NYC10033

Channel 68 is a Spanish language TV station. I see that they broadcast American movies dubbed into Spanish. I thought that the original English audio would be available on SAP - but it is not.


A week or so ago I sent an email to Univision asking if they have or would make the English audio available on SAP - they did not reply to my email.


I would be nice if 68 made the English audio track available - especially considering that some people want Spanish language dubs of English language programming available.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16732769
> 
> 
> Channel 68 is a Spanish language TV station. I see that they broadcast American movies dubbed into Spanish.



the only prob is that most of the movies they show both suck and blow at the same time -- despite the physical impossibility.


PS: you're better off watching the flicks on ION and TV10/55.... less worse.


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16732781
> 
> 
> the only prob is that most of the movies they show both suck and blow at the same time -- despite the physical impossibility.
> 
> 
> PS: you're better off watching the flicks on ION and TV10/55.... less worse.



What are TV10/55? I have never seen them. I wish I could get WLIW but I don't get even a whiff of it with my indoor antenna - and the landlord blocks any chance of my installing an outdoor antenna.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16732863
> 
> 
> What are TV10/55? I have never seen them. I wish I could get WLIW but I don't get even a whiff of it with my indoor antenna - and the landlord blocks any chance of my installing an outdoor antenna.



TV10/55 (WLNY): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLNY 


are you that guy that lives on the top of the island? if so, how's your reception now after the shut off? which channels you do NOT get?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16732863
> 
> 
> What are TV10/55? I have never seen them. I wish I could get WLIW but I don't get even a whiff of it with my indoor antenna - and the landlord blocks any chance of my installing an outdoor antenna.



Someone posted some gov docs that said Blocking Antenna outside is illegal for Apartments. YOu should be allowed. That getting free cable perks is illgal for the Apt owners. You should look into that


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16732876
> 
> 
> TV10/55 (WLNY): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLNY
> 
> 
> are you that guy that lives on the top of the island? if so, how's your reception now after the shut off? which channels you do NOT get?



I live near the highest natural point in Manhattan - near 187th St.


I receive all channels fairly well - NJN 50 is the strongest, followed by WFME.


Channel 31 is the least reliable.


Channels 2 and 7 are somewhat sensitive - necessitating my repositioning/rotating the indoor UHF antenna. Moving the antenna for one channel sometimes causes poorer reception for other channels.


I added a VHF antenna with collapsible elements (all pushed in) and a 30 year old combiner so I have a UHF and VHF antenna feeding my converter box.


My BIGGEST disappointment is that the programming is pretty bad. Infomercials on channels for Major networks is pathetic. I can understand Infomercials on a non-network local channel, but Channel 2?!!!


And again, why don't Spanish language channels broadcast the English language audio from movies on SAP? Why don't Spanish language stations show the respect for non-Spanish speakers they demand from English language stations for Spanish speakers?


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/16733073
> 
> 
> Someone posted some gov docs that said Blocking Antenna outside is illegal for Apartments. YOu should be allowed. That getting free cable perks is illgal for the Apt owners. You should look into that



I am going to contact the office of my NYC Councilman and ask if there is any law that assists people in receiving OTA TV with outdoor antennas.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16733531
> 
> 
> 
> I receive all channels fairly well - NJN 50 is the strongest, followed by WFME.



do you receive WSAH RF-42 (43.1)? they will be aring RetroTV programming.
http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/06/04/daily.3/


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16733539
> 
> 
> I am going to contact the office of my NYC Councilman and ask if there is any law that assists people in receiving OTA TV with outdoor antennas.



it's ok to put an antenna on the window if the window faces the street or some other "non-communal" area. the courtyard **is** a communal place.


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16733550
> 
> 
> do you receive WSAH RF-42 (43.1)? they will be aring RetroTV programming.
> http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/06/04/daily.3/



No.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16733539
> 
> 
> I am going to contact the office of my NYC Councilman and ask if there is any law that assists people in receiving OTA TV with outdoor antennas.



Before wasting his time, go read the OTARD rules at http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html to see if you have a foot to stand on.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> do you receive WSAH RF-42 (43.1)? they will be aring RetroTV programming.
> http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/06/04/daily.3/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
Click to expand...


could you tell us your www.TVFool.com data (NM(db), Pwr(dB), Path, Miles, Angle) for this particular channel? if things remain like they are now, i wont be able to watch RetroTV once it goes on air.










are there any plans to boost WSAH's signal? maybe another transmitter on 4TS?


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16728822
> 
> 
> i'm sure this can be fixed by moving the antenna to a different spot. i'm saying this because NBC is on UHF and nobody seems to have a problem with its signal. besides, you are only 4 miles away from the transmitter.
> 
> (



Your right I can move the antenna. If I face it straight east and click on the UHF portion of the Terk HDTVa sideways I can get channel 4 in the 70's. I can even get channel 31 but then it makes all the other UHF channels weaker except channel 5 of course. So I have to compromise.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16735941
> 
> 
> I can even get channel 31 but then it makes all the other UHF channels weaker except channel 5 of course. So I have to compromise.



that's an unfortunate feature of indoor antennas everywhere.... people who can get all channels without moving their antennas usually have 3-5 channels. the higher the number of channels, the more likely the person will need to move the antenna around.


i'll be getting a CM2016 at some point to install in my livingroom....and i'm (delusionally) hoping i can get WSAH. is anyone here getting it?


----------



## n2ubp

I've been doing some digging on why so many people claim VHF reception sucks all over the USA. Some of the suggested reasons are:


The viewer only has a UHF antenna.

Some converter front ends are overloaded by local FM stations and do not have a FM trap option.

Some converter designs are optimized for UHF and are extremely poor at receiving VHF.

VHF signal propagation is significantly different from UHF and requires different optimizing tweaks.

The FCC may have reduced ERP to compensate for auctioning off so much bandwidth, cramming more stations in less channel space and less miles between transmitter sites.


Again, I can not verify any of these are true but it makes interesting reading.


----------



## slprp1

I lost a very important channel (for me). Unfortunately, I can't afford cable or satellite and the CM CECB is my only option.

The channels are limited to begin with and I was receiving WLIW (channel 21), which is a local PBS affiliate. I had been receiving it well all along and now have lost it completely as of 6/12! Nothing has changed with my setup. Yes......I've tried re-scanning (10 times already).


I even tried another CM box (have a spare).


I e-mailed the channel twice and haven't received an answer (how rude of them!).


I thought that the signals were supposed to increase in strength as of the transition. It's over two weeks now and I'm finding that certain channels have actually reduced their signal strength. I'm seeing some pixelization and freezing issues (with various channels) that simply didn't exist before!......What's up with this?......The signal strength/quality is now worse than ever before on certain channels and my beloved WLIW is completely gone!

Was this promise of better signal just lip service?

Has anyone (especially in the NYC area) seen an improvement?


This is (potentially) a major issue......has it been addressed to the FCC, etc.?


BTW- I'm located in Southeast Queens


Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated!......Thank you!


----------



## Constable Odo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slprp1* /forum/post/16737110
> 
> 
> I lost a very important channel (for me). Unfortunately, I can't afford cable or satellite and the CM CECB is my only option.
> 
> The channels are limited to begin with and I was receiving WLIW (channel 21), which is a local PBS affiliate. I had been receiving it well all along and now have lost it completely as of 6/12! Nothing has changed with my setup. Yes......I've tried re-scanning (10 times already).
> 
> 
> I even tried another CM box (have a spare).
> 
> 
> I e-mailed the channel twice and haven't received an answer (how rude of them!).
> 
> 
> I thought that the signals were supposed to increase in strength as of the transition. It's over two weeks now and I'm finding that certain channels have actually reduced their signal strength. I'm seeing some pixelization and freezing issues (with various channels) that simply didn't exist before!......What's up with this?......The signal strength/quality is now worse than ever before on certain channels and my beloved WLIW is completely gone!
> 
> Was this promise of better signal just lip service?
> 
> Has anyone (especially in the NYC area) seen an improvement?
> 
> 
> This is (potentially) a major issue......has it been addressed to the FCC, etc.?
> 
> 
> BTW- I'm located in Southeast Queens
> 
> 
> Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated!......Thank you!



Actually you're losing three good stations: 21.1 (PBS), 21.2 (Create), 21.3 (PBS World)

They have some excellent shows on those three channels since I've been checking them post-transition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLIW 


If you live in S.E. Queens (which is where I am) and you don't have an outdoor roof antenna facing west and don't have an amplifier, you are not going to get that station and subchannels. I don't have my main antenna facing west towards Garden City, but I can still get the channels at most times with a 62% signal (my main antenna faces about 60 or so degrees away). I have a spare fringe-type UHF antenna on my roof facing west towards Garden City, but I don't have it hooked up at present (I just need to attach a signal joiner). I have used it in the past many years ago for Channel 21 and it pulls a strong signal which is expected because it's pointing in the right direction.


You don't say whether you're using an indoor antenna or not but I'd think your chances of getting a good lock are slim with an indoor antenna. I doubt if the transmitter is putting out a weak signal since I'm still getting 61% on my main antenna which isn't facing Garden City. I'm sure I'll pull 90%+ signal when I hook up my spare UHF.


I'm probably one of the few people in Queens that get's better reception on all channels after the transition. Just lucky, I guess, since I'm able to use a VHF/UHF rooftop antenna with a tallish mast. And that DTV Pal+ CECB definitely has a superior tuner.


I'd say the reason you got Channel 21 before and now you don't because now with a digital signal, once you fall below a certain signal strength you get nothing. So you must have had a marginal analog signal before, that's all.


I'd documented my stations and signal strength somewhere on this page of the forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...75729&page=304 


I personally don't think most stations care whether you get good signals are not. They probably want you to get cable or DishTV or something you have to pay for whether you watch it or not. Good luck with writing the station or your congressman (since it's not election time). I really had thought that discount converter boxes were going to help people, but so far it doesn't seem to have worked out that way at all for the few people I know that don't have cable/DishTV or outdoor antennas. Looks like many people are going to spend less time watching TV this year.


----------



## Constable Odo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/16736969
> 
> 
> I've been doing some digging on why so many people claim VHF reception sucks all over the USA. Some of the suggested reasons are:
> 
> 
> The viewer only has a UHF antenna.
> 
> Some converter front ends are overloaded by local FM stations and do not have a FM trap option.
> 
> Some converter designs are optimized for UHF and are extremely poor at receiving VHF.
> 
> VHF signal propagation is significantly different from UHF and requires different optimizing tweaks.
> 
> The FCC may have reduced ERP to compensate for auctioning off so much bandwidth, cramming more stations in less channel space and less miles between transmitter sites.
> 
> 
> Again, I can not verify any of these are true but it makes interesting reading.



I think most people thought that all converter boxes were created equal as far as getting digital signals. Not everyone was on forums checking out tuner sensitivity. That's a huge problem when getting a marginal digital signal. I was telling some people in Queens that they most likely didn't need an overly sensitive tuner since the ESB was so close. Of course I bought the most sensitive tuner I could buy (the Pal+). My cousin bought a Zinwell, but the solid-state tuner version had already been sold out and nobody had them. He also got a Pal+ but he doesn't have an outdoor antenna and is suffering from the 7, 11, 13 curse. I'm trying to convince him to get a roof antenna but he's just stubborn since he'd have to pay someone to mount it for him.


Even though I was spending lots of time on the forums, I must have overlooked until transition time that VHF was still going to be used. It didn't seem that even most of the government knew that, since most sites were pushing strictly UHF gear for post-transition. I was fortunate it was wintertime before the transition or I might have pulled down my VHF/UHF antenna to get one of those fancy-looking and powerful Antennas Direct ClearStream 4 rigs and shot myself in the foot.


As far as that FM trap stuff is concerned, you can still buy amplifiers with FM traps, can't you. My antenna is also rated for FM reception, but I don't have any overloading problem I'm aware of. Everything just worked out fine for me and I only needed my Pal+ for digital conversion and I'd say it is an excellent box for sensitivity.


In theory, most stations should be required to transmit a more powerful signal since once the effective signal threshold is lost, viewers get nothing. A marginal signal just doesn't cut it anymore. So people with digital tuners that used to get a marginal analog signal now get nothing. I'd say they are effectively screwed.


If you don't have much money to begin with, how you are gonna afford to start testing all sorts of combinations of gear to get all the channel signals. And what average viewer understands traps, filters, amps, front end overloading and multipath tech speak. There's no set formula for that crap since each viewer has a different location. To me it seems daunting and nearly impossible without some pro using signal reading instrumentation. Best of luck to all of you.


----------



## dagger666

What is with channel 11, it is the hardest to pick up along with 7. In my room the mono price antenna needs to be on a chair to pick up 7 and 11 but when i put it back on the wall neither come in. In the kitchen the dtvpal gets 7 and 13 but nothing on 11. Why could they just have left things alone. On a funny note my sisters rabbit ears are now getting everything upstairs. Even channel 5 which she could not get before. Seams the only VHF channel that is left in HSN, i'm on Long Island 14 miles form NYC.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16711541
> 
> 
> You need to do a factory reset of your DTVPal. I had this problem too, and so have others. It's some sort of bug in the DTVPal. If you do a factory reset, 7 and 13 will be available on their normal PSIP channel numbers.



thanks, did that today and now everything is fine just still can't get channel 11, WHY?


----------



## SnellKrell

As Trip in VA has reported, WABC, Channel 7 today has applied with the FCC for an increase in power from 11.69kW to 27kW ERP.


Don't know how long it takes to get approval and to make this happen.


Standby - help is on the way, at least in receiving 7.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16711759
> 
> 
> Your unequal split 3-way is actually two 2-ways, thus you have a 50% power loss (3dB) on one leg (Plus insertion loss of another 0.5dB) and then into another 2-way thus dividing that 50% signal in half again, plus another 0.5dB insertion loss, coming out at 7dB total on the last two legs.
> 
> 
> This may seem obvious, but you should send the stronger signal (3.5dB leg) to the furthest TV.
> 
> 
> If you really want to improve the system, trash the 2505 and add a Winegard mast mounted amp. The HDP 269 (12dB gain, 3dB noise) would be comparable to the RS 15-2505 (10dB gain, ? noise) and will almost surely give you better performance. If you don't have any close stations that may overload you may get better results with the CM7777. (But if what you have now is _basically_ working a 269 should do the job.)
> 
> 
> The most important change you'd be making is getting the amp up close to the antenna where it will do the most good. You are then amplifying the signal *before* it falls lower into noise through loss in your cable run. (Which S/B RG-6 as mikepier mentioned.)
> 
> 
> You should see a significant difference.



Thanks for the great suggestions. Another quick question I have. The cable running from the outside antenna to the 2505 amp is currently that flat 300ohm cable, which I then connect to one of those converters to get the 75ohm into the amp. Would I be better off doing the conversion at the antenna and running 75ohm cable into the house, or will it not really matter much.


I should replace the cable either way since the cable itself is probably 20 or so years old, but which would be the better way to go?


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16738578
> 
> 
> As Trip in VA has reported, WABC, Channel 7 today has applied with the FCC for an increase in power from 11.69kW to 27kW ERP.
> 
> 
> Don't know how long it takes to get approval and to make this happen.
> 
> 
> Standby - help is on the way, at least in receiving 7.



Good but I don't have much problems getting channel 7. I can get it in the high 50's to high 60's. Sometimes even the 70's. It is good that they might increase power but I wish channel 11 would apply to increase power because on a good day I can only get it in the mid 40's and it breaks up a lot. Most of the time I can only get it in the 20's with no picture.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16738578
> 
> 
> As Trip in VA has reported, WABC, Channel 7 today has applied with the FCC for an increase in power from 11.69kW to 27kW ERP.
> 
> 
> Don't know how long it takes to get approval and to make this happen.
> 
> 
> Standby - help is on the way, at least in receiving 7.



Well ABC indeed did something (may be changed the transmission directional pattern or something). I am able to get 7.. although with some small pixellations occasionally.. but it improves during primetime and as the night progresses.. so ERP increase will surely benefit me. I am not getiing 11 at all. Sometimes I am able to get 13 although with some amount of pixellation. I would really love to get 13, but I guess I have to satisfy myself with NJN PBS.

Antenna being used: CM3010 VHF/UHF antenna with CM3038 preamp (with FM trap enabled).


Does anybody has success stories on RCA ANT751? I wish I would have gotten this antenna instead with some small gain preamp. Anyway.. I can't invest any more money on antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC, WPIX and WNET all use the same non-directional, Hi-VHF Combiner antenna on the ESB.


So, no changes with the station's transmission pattern.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16739852
> 
> 
> Well ABC indeed did something (may be changed the transmission directional pattern or something).



i have a hard time o receive it. the signal oscillates too much: 10-40% i was able to get CW for the first time last week with my Folded Dipole hanging on the window. signal was weak, though. Ch-13 is the "strongest" of all Hi-VHF channels in my place. but its sweet spot is in the middle of the kitchen.



> Quote:
> I guess I have to satisfy myself with NJN PBS.



i wish i could get WLIW-21. it seems to have better sub-channels than WNET-13.



> Quote:
> Does anybody has success stories on RCA ANT751? I wish I would have gotten this antenna instead with some small gain preamp. Anyway.. I can't invest any more money on antenna.



today i'll order the CM2016 for use indoors. i'm not sure if i'll get an amp, though. i'll report my findings here once i set it up.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16739871
> 
> 
> WABC, WPIX and WNET all use the same non-directional, Hi-VHF Combiner antenna on the ESB.
> 
> 
> So, no changes with the station's transmission pattern.



That is what I don't understand. If they are all on the same antenna at the same position then how come the way I have my dipole antennas I can get WABC and WNET good but I can't get WPIX.


----------



## SnellKrell

Once again, as has been mentioned numerous times on the Forum -


Although the signal emanate from the same physical antenna -


Different frequencies and different power!


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16740071
> 
> 
> That is what I don't understand. If they are all on the same antenna at the same position then how come the way I have my dipole antennas I can get WABC and WNET good but I can't get WPIX.



as said before, different frequencies, broadcast at different powers, yield different results. since you ask this question so often, i'll try to make an analogy to help you understand.


assume you are near a vehicle whose stereo is blasting music. close to the car, you can hear all elements of the song (bass, drums, hit-hats, vocals, guitars, etc.) clearly. however, if you gradually move away from the vehicle, you notice that your ears can no longer hear (receive) all the elements of the song. that is, the farther you go, the less you can hear the higher frequencies. it gets to a point at which you can only hear the "bass" (bum-bum-bum) and nothing else! no vocals, no hit-hat, no nothing. the bass is all you hear!


how is that possible if all sounds that comprise the song are being played from the same stereo, in the same vehicle?


in sum, it doesnt matter that the 3 stations are being broadcast from the same spot. their frequencies are different. different frequencies propagate in different ways.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16740225
> 
> 
> as said before, different frequencies, broadcast at different powers, yield different results. since you ask this question so often, i'll try to make an analogy to help you understand.
> 
> 
> assume you are near a vehicle whose stereo is blasting music. close to the car, you can hear all elements of the song (bass, drums, hit-hats, vocals, guitars, etc.) clearly. however, if you gradually move away from the vehicle, you notice that your ears can no longer hear (receive) all the elements of the song. that is, the farther you go, the less you can hear the higher frequencies. it gets to a point at which you can only hear the "bass" (bum-bum-bum) and nothing else! no vocals, no hit-hat, no nothing. the bass is all you hear!
> 
> 
> how is that possible if all sounds that comprise the song are being played from the same stereo, in the same vehicle?
> 
> 
> in sum, it doesnt matter that the 3 stations are being broadcast from the same spot. their frequencies are different. different frequencies propagate in different ways.



great analogy. As I am not a "science" or "tech" guy, it really helped me understand why different channels behave differently even though they are broadcast from the same antenna.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16739852
> 
> 
> Antenna being used: CM3010 VHF/UHF antenna with CM3038 preamp (with FM trap enabled).



just ordered the CM2016 and the HDP-269 amp. this amp was recommended by *holl_ands* as a way to avoid overload of my CM-7000 converter. i have a 37" Olevia LCD too so i'll split in 2 the signal received by the antenna.


----------



## Constable Odo

I reversed a common splitter (Archer equal loss) to join my northwest facing VHF/UHF antenna to my east-facing UHF to get WLIW Garden City Channel 21 at near full strength. I was able to pull a 83% to 85% signal on channels 21.1, 21.2 and 21.3 without any significant losses on my other channels. Using the straight feed gave me a 90% to 92% signal on Channel 21. I may just decide to use a coaxial switcher instead. I have a couple of those around and just switch when I watch those WLIW channels. All the channels I receive are well above any signal dropouts and stay rock solid.


This is my OTA rooftop setup for the digital age. This old antenna gear is at least fifteen years old and I hadn't used it since I starting using TimeWarner Cable back in 2001 except to check it was in working order from time to time in case of an emergency. It worked way back then and it still does the job even better now than when I was using analog. That broken VHF element is still on the roof and I'm tempted to put it back on with a metal screw and some epoxy if time permits. The OTA antenna gear:


__
https://flic.kr/p/3673659812
​ 
__
https://flic.kr/p/3672850347
​ 
__
https://flic.kr/p/3672850271
​ 
__
https://flic.kr/p/3673659550
​ 
__
https://flic.kr/p/3672850039
​

Not much magic involved and relatively very little cost spread out over fifteen years. My antenna mod was adding eight elements (about a couple of feet) to the UHF section which helped boost the signal a bit for old analog Channel 63 in Newton, N.J.. I had spray-coated clear polyurethane on the entire antenna when brand new and it preserved it to this day without any oxidation. I'd also added rubberized epoxy to the element joints, but some starling must have landed on one of my longest VHF elements and snapped it off.


Almost everyone on my block has those mini-satellite dishes so I'm a little out of fashion with the times with multiple VHF/UHF roof antennas. I don't care. I get excellent OTA reception on the cheap and really could drop my cable tv feed since I don't watch much TV now. I still need my broadband internet connection, though.


----------



## FrankH3rd

This article by Pete Putman was identified in post 2605 in the Philadelphia thread, and deals mostly with the problems related to reception of channel 6 WPVI since the June 12 transition, but also contains interesting information about reception of channel 7 WABC in New York City. Helps one understand why amplifiers don't always work.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/TechTalk.html 


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## seamus21514

 http://www.commlawblog.com/tags/pmcm-tv-llc/ 

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...e_Stations.php 

http://www.fhhlaw.com/memo_clients/2...n%20NJ&DEL.pdf 


This is wild! Do you think this will actually happen?


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seamus21514* /forum/post/16744106
> 
> http://www.commlawblog.com/tags/pmcm-tv-llc/
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...e_Stations.php
> 
> http://www.fhhlaw.com/memo_clients/2...n%20NJ&DEL.pdf
> 
> 
> This is wild! Do you think this will actually happen?



I mentioned this a few days ago as well, in Post # 9497 , a page back ..

Looks like it will happen.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's just about 12:30 p.m. and about a minute or so ago, 7 disappeared.


Tried the station on 2 tuners and now see that DirecTV has lost its feed.


Let's hope the engineers at 7 are working some magic or us all!


----------



## SnellKrell

7 is back with no discernable change in SNR%.


----------



## reddice

Channels 7 and 13 are weaker for me today. Channel 13 being the weakest.


----------



## reddice

I wonder why whenever OTA channel 7 goes out it affects the DirecTV feed?


----------



## SnellKrell

Because DirecTV uses an O-T-A feed to receive the station, not a fiber connection.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's 3:48 p.m. on Tuesday, 6/30 -


This concerns Channel 36 - WNJU.


A while ago (last month or so) I totally lost 36 while others claimed that their reception improved.


Speculation is that the fill-in facility on 4TS caused my loss and others' gain of reception.


I am now getting 36 the way I used to.


Wondering if others are noticing a difference.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16747740
> 
> 
> It's 3:48 p.m. on Tuesday, 6/30 -
> 
> 
> This concerns Channel 36 - WNJU.
> 
> 
> A while ago (last month or so) I totally lost 36 while others claimed that their reception improved.
> 
> 
> Speculation is that the fill-in facility on 4TS caused my loss and others' gain of reception.
> 
> 
> I am now getting 36 the way I used to.
> 
> 
> Wondering if others are noticing a difference.



I wonder too. Here's my nickel's worth:

ch 36 transmits from NJ (W. Orange) omnidirectional. Its secondary on-channel transmitter (DTS) transmits directional pattern toward East from (not sure) Blumberg or 4TS.

Where in the azimuth plane these two pattern overlap is where some people, mostly east of Manhattan, will get an improvement and many more inside Manhattan, mostly east of the the building on which the second transmitter is, would have a degraded SNR.


----------



## SnellKrell

The 2nd transmitter is on the Conde Nast Building - 4TS.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just looked for 36 again, and it's among the missing.


Really believe it's the transmission from 4TS that's killing it for me!


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16748772
> 
> 
> Just looked for 36 again, and it's among the missing.
> 
> 
> Really believe it's the transmission from 4TS that's killing it for me!



Why not let Telemundo's Engineering c/o NBC Engineering know?


----------



## SnellKrell

They do, I had heard they were going to do tests by turning 4TS off - this must be it!


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16749020
> 
> 
> They do, I had heard they were going to do tests by turning 4TS off - this must be it!



This may be a testimonial to Telemundo's dumb engineering and a caution to anyone who cannot do analysis and thus believes in the advertising (curtesy of the FCC) that DTS is DTV broadcasting's panacea to the vagaries of 8-VSB reception.


----------



## SnellKrell

Whoa, those are very harsh words.


Before the condemnation, why don't you take the time to read the Richland Towers report on its experimental work with Telemundo.


It's available at www.richlandtowers.com on the site's home page.


The results of the experimental work were so positive that it led to the implementation of the 4TS transmission site.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16749231
> 
> 
> Whoa, those are very harsh words.
> 
> 
> Before the condemnation, why don't you take the time to read the Richland Towers report on its experimental work with Telemundo.
> 
> 
> It's available at www.richlandtowers.com on the site's home page.
> 
> 
> The results of the experimental work were so positive that it led to the implementation of the 4TS transmission site.



I have read it.


----------



## Trip in VA

This DTS has way too much power to be successful IMO.


- Trip


----------



## S1DIMMER

Before the DTV change I was able to get all my locals 2, 4, 5, and 7 with a single silver sensor antenna that I did not have to move. I'm using a media center PC with 2 Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 tuners. After the digital transition which I thought would only improve reception, I lost 2 and 7. Today I got an RCA ANT1500, which got 2 back but 7 is still out. No matter which way I aim the antenna I still can't get 7. Anyone have any ideas on how to get 7 to come in. I did see the earlier posts about 7 boosting their signal so I'm hoping that may help. Hopefully they'll get it done before the new TV season. My 11 and 13 are out too but I mainly only watch 2, 4, 5, and 7. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

I also have the Silver Sensor and everything was fine before the transition.


As of 6/12, I had trouble with 7, 11, 13 and 31 (no reception at all for 31). My problems with 36 are mentioned above.


My current solution, which is working fairly well for the Hi-V stations, is the addition of Terk rabbit ears being fed with the Silver Sensor into a combiner, not a splitter in reverse.


----------



## reddice

I don't know why they can't just move some of the troubled stations to 4TS. I know you are saying that it is not as high but it is a new antenna so it will work better. As you know I get 36 very strong. It is the strongest. If it is on 4TS then I am right. Also 24 is on 4TS and I get it good.


----------



## reddice

Why so many problems getting channel 2. When channel 2 was on RF 56 I had a struggle of a time to get a picture. Most of the time it was a black screen and other times it was just a bunch of pixelated boxes. If I moved the antenna in a different location I got it fair but then it would be weak and unwatchable again. Now that they are on RF 33 I get it good and it is much more reliable.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *S1DIMMER* /forum/post/16749814
> 
> 
> Today I got an RCA ANT1500, which got 2 back but 7 is still out. No matter which way I aim the antenna I still can't get 7.



given the (relatively) short amount of time that ABC took to boost their signal in LA, i'm guessing it will take less then a month for their transmission to be improved in NYC. however, your choice of antenna isnt the best for Hi-VHF channels (7, 11, and 13). the best antennas for those served with both Hi-VHF and UHF are:


- Terk HDTVa (indoor)

- RadioShack UFO (indoor)


- Channel Master CM3010 (outdoor, small)

- Channel Master CM2016 (outdoor, small)

- RCA ANT751 (outdoor, small)


how far are you from the transmitters? btw, in order to receive Ch-13, i have to put my home-made Folded Dipole in the middle of the kitchen, about 8 inches off the floor. try moving your antenna around the house.


----------



## S1DIMMER

I'm about 18 miles from NYC give or take a few miles. I'm going to swap back to the silver sensor and see if I can locate the channel 7 signal. Hopefully with the boost in power they are supposed to get maybe I'll get lucky.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *S1DIMMER* /forum/post/16750356
> 
> 
> I'm about 18 miles from NYC give or take a few miles. I'm going to swap back to the silver sensor and see if I can locate the channel 7 signal. Hopefully with the boost in power they are supposed to get maybe I'll get lucky.



the Silver Sensor is different from the HDTVa. the former has no dipoles and that makes it an UHF antenna. based on your distance to the towers and the channels you want to receive, i recommend the antennas below:


- Channel Master CM2016 (outdoor, small)

- RCA ANT751 (outdoor, small)


they are small enough to be mounted indoors (if eye-sore isnt an issue). the ANT751 has better Hi-VHF reception, whereas the CM has better UHF reception.


if, when using your indoor antennas, you get the UHF channels well but have trouble with Hi-VHF (7, 11, 13), get the ANT751. its UHF gain isnt the best, but it would likely be enough if you can easily receive UHF with the Silver Sensor.



P.S.: of course, it goes without saying that if you are willing to go on the roof, you can get a bigger outdoor antenna like the Channel Master CM2018.


----------



## kousikb

I have found a sweet spot.. sort of in my balcony... now I am getting 7 reliably. 13 is also coming perfect today. 11 is still pixel hell.. never had any problems getting 2, 4, 5, 9, 25, 31, 41, 47, 50, 58, 63, 68 regardless of where I keep the antenna for optimal reception of 7 and 13.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16750769
> 
> 
> I have found a sweet spot.. sort of in my balcony... now I am getting 7 reliably. 13 is also coming perfect today.



hadnt you tried the balcony before? is this sweet spot one of those cases of "half an inch higher, half an inch farther to the right"?










so that means that now you will settle with the CM3010? i was really planning to get it but when you said the balcony didnt do anything for you, i re-evaluated my chances and went with the CM2016 -- despite its bad looks for use indoors. i even considered buying both and testing them for a week.... then i remembered the frustration of testing the UFO, HDTVa and TV55 at the same time.










i'm glad you found something that works for you.


btw, wont CW do anything to address their bad transmission?!


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16749231
> 
> 
> Whoa, those are very harsh words.
> 
> 
> Before the condemnation, why don't you take the time to read the Richland Towers report on its experimental work with Telemundo.
> 
> 
> It's available at www.richlandtowers.com on the site's home page.
> 
> 
> The results of the experimental work were so positive that it led to the implementation of the 4TS transmission site.



Here's the linky with the test info from June 2007

http://www.richlandtowers.com/Images/Interior/dtx.pdf


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16730769
> 
> 
> how will they overcome the inherent problems of ATSC on Lo-VHF?



I guess I'm NOT removing my full sized antenna just yet !


----------



## SnellKrell

ABC in Chicago, WLS - also on Channel 7, today has applied to the Commission for permission to use a low power (15kW) translator on Channel 32 to help with the station's signal in the downtown area.


Let's hope the power boost will help here, I've been told by a very reliable sources not to hope for too much, not enough power to make a significant difference.


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 13 has disappeared - nothing on my SNR% meter!


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16751796
> 
> 
> Channel 13 has disappeared - nothing on my SNR% meter!



Working fine for me.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16751403
> 
> 
> ABC in Chicago, WLS - also on Channel 7, today has applied to the Commission for permission to use a low power (15kW) translator on Channel 32 to help with the station's signal in the downtown area.



so they will broadcast on RF-7 and RF-32 in the same area? sounds sloppy. isnt it better to increase the power or use DTS? 15kW does look little....


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16751813
> 
> 
> Working fine for me.



Just tried the Signal Meter on my TV set, more sensitive that the one on my DirecTV O-T-A tuner.


Occasionally, I'm getting very, very low readings - not high enough for reception.


I'm speculating that 13 is doing work on its main installation and has reverted to its Aux. antenna system between the 82nd and 85th floors.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16750785
> 
> 
> hadnt you tried the balcony before? is this sweet spot one of those cases of "half an inch higher, half an inch farther to the right"?



Yes you hit right on the spot.. its really really sensitive. If I lower my antenna by about 1" or if I move it by 1-2".. the the Hi-VHF becomes unstable. Unfortunately, I am not at a higher elevation.. or at the top of the hill and the signal has to travel through about 8-10 rental buildings, lots of trees.. (assuming that our community is at the highest elevation at our location). The antenna has to overcome all of these factors. I will post a picture of my new setup later on. For now I have mounted to a aluminium pole with base as a bucket filled with quick cement. I should have spent a little bit more money and bought a commercial antenna mast.. ($6 at lowes) that way I could have increased the height of the antenna little bit. But with my present setup I have reached the limit and can't increase further..


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16751947
> 
> 
> Occasionally, I'm getting very, very low readings - not high enough for reception.
> 
> 
> I'm speculating that 13 is doing work on its main installation and has reverted to its Aux. antenna system between the 82nd and 85th floors.



i had noticed that too. after hours of work to find a sweet spot, the signal would just suddenly drop back to zero. it made me wonder if a new scan was needed or my flimsy Folded Dipole had moved. after a while, it became clear something was going on WNET's side.


so whatever they are doing, they have been doing for a while....


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16751986
> 
> 
> Yes you hit right on the spot.. its really really sensitive. If I lower my antenna by about 1" or if I move it by 1-2".. the the Hi-VHF becomes unstable.



that's how it is for problematic channels anywhere in the world. a small change in location, height and/or direction and the signal quality changes completely. the sweet spot i use now isnt as sweet as the one in the middle of the kitchen (in the way of everything), but it gets me 50% (as opposed to 70% in the kitchen). any small change in height, position or direction and WNET disappears. the movement, however, doesnt affect the UHF channels much.


btw, WNET's signal is gone indeed -- once again. have they applied for any changes? i called them 2x last week and asked about their transmission power. both customer reps told me they were working at full capacity and there would be no increase in signal strength. i also sent them an email and the reply said:

_"We have been working with the FCC to determine why certain people are having persistent problems."_


at least WNET and ABC seem to be working on it. CW seems to be in a state of inertia about this whole thing. maybe i'll be able to watch CW once my CM2016 ships, but SolidSignal has emailed me to say that the antenna is in backorder now.... 1-2 weeks till shipping.


----------



## SnellKrell

Let's not forget that Tribune, licensee of WPIX is bankrupt!


That doesn't help a station to invest money, manpower and time!


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16752130
> 
> 
> Let's not forget that Tribune, licensee of WPIX is bankrupt!
> 
> 
> That doesn't help a station to invest money, manpower and time!



thanks for the heads up. now i know i shouldnt expect miraculous improvement in reception by moving my home-made folded dipole.


----------



## rothe

Interesting about WNET being worked on. Let's hope it improves the situation for some of us.


I'm in Ocean Grove, and pulling in all of the major NYC stations with no problem - all except WNET. I'm using a Winegard hd7698p mounted in my attic, facing due north through the gable. It's probably way more antenna than I need. I'm actually able to get a watchable signal from WFTY in CT, 73 miles away. But regardless of anything I do - every spot in the attic, left/right, front/back, up/down - I get nothing from WNET since the transition.


Here's my TV Fool Signal Analysis Results:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...07450b898bcb09 


How are other people doing with WNET in Monmouth and Ocean counties? Please state your town and the antenna you're using.


----------



## SnellKrell

13 is back for me!


The antenna sounds fine for picking up the NY stations - V and U.


Doubt whether any work being done on 13 will make a difference for you.


What you don't want to hear, I'm sure, is to get the antenna out of the attic and

mount it as high as you can outdoors!


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16753534
> 
> 
> Interesting about WNET being worked on. Let's hope it improves the situation for some of us.
> 
> 
> I'm in Ocean Grove, and pulling in all of the major NYC stations with no problem - all except WNET. I'm using a Winegard hd7698p mounted in my attic, facing due north through the gable. It's probably way more antenna than I need. I'm actually able to get a watchable signal from WFTY in CT, 73 miles away. But regardless of anything I do - every spot in the attic, left/right, front/back, up/down - I get nothing from WNET since the transition.
> 
> 
> Here's my TV Fool Signal Analysis Results:
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...07450b898bcb09
> 
> 
> How are other people doing with WNET in Monmouth and Ocean counties?
> 
> 
> Please state your town and the antenna you're using.



I am located in SE Hillsborough, about 40 miles SW of NYC. Using a Channel Master suburban CM3016 antenna (which is a lot less elaborate than yours) located in the attic, reception on all NYC stations, including 7, 11 and 13 is strong. A few thoughts about your reception difficulty on WNET ch 13-


- you did rescan after June 12 and are sure your digital converter or tv is really tuned to ch 13 now??

- do you have an amplifier in the circuit. If so, try removing it to see if it isn't adding noise. Sometimes amplifiers hurt more than help

- your TV Fool analysis did not indicate possibility of co-channel or adjacent channel interference, but since your antenna has f/b 20db, maybe it is pulling in an interfering station further up north from NYC. Did you try aiming your anttenna in any other directions?


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16753888
> 
> 
> 13 is back for me!
> 
> 
> The antenna sounds fine for picking up the NY stations - V and U.
> 
> 
> Doubt whether any work being done on 13 will make a difference for you.



I expect the same thing.



> Quote:
> What you don't want to hear, I'm sure, is to get the antenna out of the attic and
> 
> mount it as high as you can outdoors!



And I've been considering that. I also expect that my community - the entirety of which is a historic preservation district - will frown upon the presence of a 170" long antenna on my roof. I know, I know -- they can't do that, but I don't want to deal with the argument. And besides:


1) the antenna does fine for every other station that I want (and many that I don't want) and


2) the attic affords total protection against wind, birds, falling branches, lightning, etc.


Of late, I've been wondering if there's not some localized interference in or around the 210-216 mhz band that VHF channel 13 resides in. I'm using a four-tuner home-theater PC for all of my reception and video storage needs, and this is located in the room directly below the attic-mounted antenna. I'm not aware of anything at the moment, but I'm wondering if there's not a processor, memory or bus clock that's in that range. Or maybe even some factor or divisor of some such clock that would contribute to interference with channel 13.


The big question remains: how are my neighbors throughout Monmouth and Ocean counties doing with this channel?


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16729315
> 
> 
> You hit the nail exactly on it's head. DTS and the associated uncorrectible multipath is shaping up as the next example of poor engineering related to DTV.



What's DTS?


----------



## rperlberg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16749231
> 
> 
> Whoa, those are very harsh words.
> 
> 
> Before the condemnation, why don't you take the time to read the Richland Towers report on its experimental work with Telemundo.
> 
> 
> It's available at www.richlandtowers.com on the site's home page.
> 
> 
> The results of the experimental work were so positive that it led to the implementation of the 4TS transmission site.



I visited the web site but I can't find the report you are referring to.


----------



## SnellKrell

Try this posted by another Forum memeber.

www.richlandtowers.com/Images/Interior/dtx.pdf


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16753979
> 
> 
> I am located in SE Hillsborough, about 40 miles SW of NYC. Using a Channel Master suburban CM3016 antenna (which is a lot less elaborate than yours) located in the attic, reception on all NYC stations, including 7, 11 and 13 is strong.



You're considerably further west than me - I'm due south of the ESB. *IF* the coverage maps are accurate, our reception *should be* similar. Depending on the answers from other forum members closer to me, that may yet be confirmed.



> Quote:
> A few thoughts about your reception difficulty on WNET ch 13-
> 
> 
> - you did rescan after June 12 and are sure your digital converter or tv is really tuned to ch 13 now??



Yes. Virtual 13 definitely maps to real 13.



> Quote:
> - do you have an amplifier in the circuit. If so, try removing it to see if it isn't adding noise. Sometimes amplifiers hurt more than help



Haven't tried that yet, but it's about time that I do. FWIW, I'm running with a Channel Master 7777 and about 30 feet of RG-6. Eventually, I'm going to move the home theater PC into the basement, which will add about 30 more feet of RG-6.



> Quote:
> - your TV Fool analysis did not indicate possibility of co-channel or adjacent channel interference, but since your antenna has f/b 20db, maybe it is pulling in an interfering station further up north from NYC. Did you try aiming your antenna in any other directions?



I've tried aiming in various directions within about a 30 degree range with no improvement. I've settled on aiming in the exact direction of the ESB and raising the height of the antenna as high as it will go within the crest of my attic roof and still maintain that orientation.


Still no joy, but it did improve the already-negligible error rate in signals from other NYC stations.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16754232
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried aiming in various directions within about a 30 degree range with no improvement.



when dealing with a problematic signal, you need to "push" the barriers of feasibility a little further. if possible, try a 90-degree rotation to each side. and btw, the higher spot isnt necessarily the best one for every station. it all depends on how deffraction is happening in your location.


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16740136
> 
> 
> Once again, as has been mentioned numerous times on the Forum -
> 
> 
> Although the signal emanate from the same physical antenna -
> 
> 
> Different frequencies and different power!




I also have the same question regarding WNET and WPIX. What you say seems reasonable, except that these two stations a) are in the same location on the ESB; b) have almost the same frequencies (channels 13 and 11), and c) their TVfool power at my location (46 miles east of the ESB) are -67.1 and -67.3, an insignificant difference in my opinion.


Mike


----------



## SnellKrell

Mike -


"...same physical antenna..." = "...same location" I made that point already!


"Almost the same frequencies." Have you heard of "almost' pregnant?


Each television channel has its distrinct (different) frequency!


Just because a Web site says is positive and leads one to believe that you should receive a station bears absolutely no relationship to reality.


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16754403
> 
> 
> Mike -
> 
> 
> "...same physical antenna..." = "...same location" I made that point already!
> 
> 
> "Almost the same frequencies." Have you heard of "almost' pregnant?
> 
> 
> Each television channel has its distrinct (different) frequency!
> 
> 
> Just because a Web site says is positive and leads one to believe that you should receive a station bears absolutely no relationship to reality.



I don't believe TFfool's calculations would be that wrong, unless the data from the stations are incorrect - GIGO (garbage in garbage out)!


It seems as if many people are having much more trouble getting 11 than 13, especially those people on Long Island. I assume TVfool's calculations take into account the directionality of the transmitting antennas, height, ERP, etc.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MTVhike* /forum/post/16754364
> 
> 
> I also have the same question regarding WNET and WPIX. What you say seems reasonable, except that these two stations a) are in the same location on the ESB; b) have almost the same frequencies (channels 13 and 11), and c) their TVfool power at my location (46 miles east of the ESB) are -67.1 and -67.3, an insignificant difference in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Mike



the combination of diff freq and diff power are enough to create an utterly different scenario, despite the marginal differences. example: letter addressed to the first person below wouldnt reach the second one.


- Rob, 100 W 49th St, NY 10010

- Tob, 200 E 50th St, NJ 90010


the 2 multiplications below also yield completely diff results:


- 1000 x 1

- 1001 x 0


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rperlberg* /forum/post/16754109
> 
> 
> What's DTS?



Distributed (on-channel) Transmission System aka Single Frequency Network (SFN). It works OK with the European HDTV modulation but not with the US ATSC modulation (8-VSB). That is so because the 8-VSB based receivers require a multiple-taps (hundreds) complex equalizer to process the echoes. This process takes too long, especially for strong dynamic echoes (usually the case) and leaves the "successfully" attenuated echoes behind as noise. Of course, the equalizer does not succeed in attenuating all echoes. Those also end in the noise bin.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16754338
> 
> 
> when dealing with a problematic signal, you need to "push" the barriers of feasibility a little further. if possible, try a 90-degree rotation to each side. and btw, the higher spot isnt necessarily the best one for every station. it all depends on how deffraction is happening in your location.



I actually don't have that much room in this attic. I can probably sweep a range from about 20 degrees W of true N to about 40 degrees E of true N. And I've tried the entire range of antenna height that I have available. Again, all channels come in great except 13.


I'm increasingly convinced that this must be from interference around that 210-216 Mhz range. I downloaded a program that will tell me the clock frequencies within my home theater PC (google CPU-Z) and will check that theory when I get home.


I wish I had an oscilloscope. With that and a small indoor antenna, I'm sure I'd be able to locate an interference source, if there is one.


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16754232
> 
> 
> You're considerably further west than me - I'm due south of the ESB. *IF* the coverage maps are accurate, our reception *should be* similar. Depending on the answers from other forum members closer to me, that may yet be confirmed.
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried aiming in various directions within about a 30 degree range with no improvement. I've settled on aiming in the exact direction of the ESB and raising the height of the antenna as high as it will go within the crest of my attic roof and still maintain that orientation.
> 
> 
> Still no joy, but it did improve the already-negligible error rate in signals from other NYC stations.



I have an old set of rabbit ears, so just for the heck of it I connected it to my Zenith converter with a 5 foot section of RG6 coax using a vhf-uhf combiner. The length of each half of the rabbit ears was extended about 17 to 18 inches, oriented horizontally (not in a 'V" shape). I then walked around the tv (located in a second story bedroom). I was able to find a few hot spots in the room that produced a moderate signal for WNET channel 13. (Remember, I am located abuot 40 miles SW of NYC). You might try this yourself, or alternately make a folded dipole antenna out of 300 ohm antenna wire. If it works, it is easier than moving a big antenna around in a hot attic.



Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16754904
> 
> 
> And I've tried the entire range of antenna height that I have available. Again, all channels come in great except 13.



i'm almost 9 miles north of the towers and, using the Folded Dipole shown below (75cm wide), i can get all UHF channels without any problems. on the other hand, i cannot get the Hi-VHF channels without a fight (i have ordered the CM2016 already). there are 2 sweet spots in my place:


- the middle of the kitchen.

- the living room corner (shown in the pic).


in the living room, i cannot get Ch-13 if:


- antenna is rotated more than 45-degrees in any direction;

- antenna is raised or lowered more than 6 inches.


bottom line, some channels can be very picky.... too bad you cant move your antenna any further. maybe you can have a small Hi-VHF antenna (RCA ANT751) somewhere else in your attic, then combine the 2....(?)


before making my Folded Dipole, i was using a loop (also made of 12 AWG wire), but with it i couldnt get Ch-13. i've tried a RS UFO and a Terk HDTVa for 2 weeks but, although they did great for UHF (the latter did better), their rabbit ears could not get me Ch-13 as well as this (mega-ugly) Folded Dipole can. i suggest FDs for anyone having troubles with rabbit ears. i can only get Ch-7 at 30% now, but it will probably be better after WABC's impending signal boost.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16754232
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't tried that yet, but it's about time that I do. FWIW, I'm running with a Channel Master 7777 and about 30 feet of RG-6. Eventually, I'm going to move the home theater PC into the basement, which will add about 30 more feet of RG-6.



If you are using a BalUn from the antenna to the preamp maybe try swapping it with a different model. They are not all the same. Some are quite lossy. My first DTV receiving setup used twinlead all the way down to the converter box. I saw quite a difference in meter readings switching between different BalUns. I eventually hooked up a preamp with a built-in BalUn.


I'm near Toms River and channel 13 comes in just fine here. The last several days had ducting and TV was coming in from all over the map. I logged 6 new stations. Reminds me of my old TVDXing days only it takes a rescan in each different direction at this point. I'll post a list sometime soon.


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16754904
> 
> 
> I actually don't have that much room in this attic. I can probably sweep a range from about 20 degrees W of true N to about 40 degrees E of true N. And I've tried the entire range of antenna height that I have available. Again, all channels come in great except 13.
> 
> 
> I'm increasingly convinced that this must be from interference around that 210-216 Mhz range. I downloaded a program that will tell me the clock frequencies within my home theater PC (google CPU-Z) and will check that theory when I get home.
> 
> 
> I wish I had an oscilloscope. With that and a small indoor antenna, I'm sure I'd be able to locate an interference source, if there is one.



In the DC thread, a person having trouble with a high-VHF channel isolated the problem to the case fans on his gaming PC.


----------



## dagger666

for me it's 11 and 7 are the hardest to pickup. I had to move my monoprice antenna from the wall to the chair for them but now 2 comes in weak. I figured it will take about a year untill everything goes the way it's supposed to.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16753979
> 
> 
> - do you have an amplifier in the circuit. If so, try removing it to see if it isn't adding noise. Sometimes amplifiers hurt more than help



I pulled the pre-amp out of the circuit this morning, and lost many more channels than I'd ever had problems with before. And this is with only about 20 to 25 feet of RG6. With that short of a cable run, I probably shouldn't even need a pre-amp. This further supports the idea that I have a RF noise source nearby the antenna. With the pre-amp, the antenna signal is boosted enough to overcome the local source of noise. Or that's my best theory for now.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/16757573
> 
> 
> If you are using a BalUn from the antenna to the preamp maybe try swapping it with a different model. They are not all the same. Some are quite lossy. My first DTV receiving setup used twinlead all the way down to the converter box. I saw quite a difference in meter readings switching between different BalUns. I eventually hooked up a preamp with a built-in BalUn.



I've tried a number of different baluns, and also a number of different splitters, all to no effect. Even without the single splitter that's in the line, reception was the same.



> Quote:
> I'm near Toms River and channel 13 comes in just fine here.



That's an important data point. Thank you. This further supports the theory that the transmitted signal is strong enough in my area, and that I have an RF noise source nearby.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Loudin* /forum/post/16757779
> 
> 
> In the DC thread, a person having trouble with a high-VHF channel isolated the problem to the case fans on his gaming PC.



I tried installing my video capture software on my laptop, and then turning off my home theater PC. Surprisingly, I got the same results. Of course, I used the laptop in the same room that the HTPC is installed in, which is directly below the attic-mounted antenna. And for all that I know, the laptop may have as much or more RF emissions as the HTPC.


The next thing that I'm thinking about trying is running a cable down to the basement and trying things out there. If the PC is the source of the interference, then the antenna will be considerably less likely to pick up that RF noise, and the pre-amp will boost the signal beyond what could leak into the PC-mounted tuners via the cable connections.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16727316
> 
> 
> I have some pictures for you of my existing antenna and the UHF which I have inside and have been testing inside.
> 
> 
> When I took the pictures I realized that when I was at the top of the hill that my antenna is actually high enough that it almost but not quite is eye level with the top of the hill. So while I do have issues with trees my situation with the hill is not so bad.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I uploaded pictures for you....



Sorry there, I haven't been ignoring you, just this is a busy time of year for me with the 4th.


Yea you got trees... lotsa trees...


I have seen that UHF antenna before, but damned if I can remember what it's called, and couldn't find it on a quick look around. I suppose you could experiment a little, but I doubt you'll get any better results - that probably doesn't have anywhere near the gain of your 4228. (And I'm sure nada for VHF.) However if you did get some positive results you may have than found a better location for your antenna altogether.


Keep us posted.

(And if I come across the specs on that UHF I'll put 'em up.)


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16738677
> 
> 
> Thanks for the great suggestions. Another quick question I have. The cable running from the outside antenna to the 2505 amp is currently that flat 300ohm cable, which I then connect to one of those converters to get the 75ohm into the amp. *Would I be better off doing the conversion at the antenna and running 75ohm cable into the house*, or will it not really matter much.
> 
> 
> I should replace the cable either way since the cable itself is probably 20 or so years old, but which would be the better way to go?


*DEFINITELY!*

A long run of 300 ohm is almost certainly going to add problems for you. If it's not picking up interference, it can also act as an antenna and introduce a multipath signal situation for your tuner to deal with.


Order the HDP 269 and an outdoor Balun (300 to 75 ohm transformer) from Solid Signal. (Or you could pick up the Balun at Radio Shack for around $5-$6.)


Mount the amp on the mast, close to the antenna, and connect with a short length of RG-6. (Don't forget to leave a drip loop and seal the outdoor connectors with electrical tape to avoid moisture intrusion.) Then run RG-6 down into the house and connect to the power injector, and out to your splitter/TV.


You should see vast improvements!

Keep us posted.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16759264
> 
> 
> The next thing that I'm thinking about trying is running a cable down to the basement and trying things out there. If the PC is the source of the interference, then the antenna will be considerably less likely to pick up that RF noise, and the pre-amp will boost the signal beyond what could leak into the PC-mounted tuners via the cable connections.



a few things that you might or might not have taken into account.


the problem with Hi-VHF reception is nation-wide. lots of people are having issues with channels in this band! that means that either:


a) all of us are having problems with some type of machine-caused interference.

b) there was too much optimism by the FCC's part (this is my personal opinion) when defining the limits for signal strength.


for a moment, let's assume (a) is the correct answer. it's possible that certain common devices (phones, routers, PCs, CFL bulbs, etc) cause *particularly more* problems to digital transmissions on Hi-VHF. the 3 tests below can help you narrow down to the culprit.


1) get a small *TV set* and take it outside or take it to your basement. a laptop or desktop will not help ruling out the culprit if they are the source of interference. maybe you can get a portable TV from a friend (aasuming you have a converter).


2) make a Folded Dipole using 12-AWG (or thicker) wire. make it to ch-13 because that is the "less worse" Hi-VHF channel right now. the width for ch-13 is approximately 67cm (26in), which means you would need a single 55in stretch of wire. go around the house/neighbourhood like a Ghostbuster till you find the sweet spot. btw, you can make a better antenna if you use thin copper pipes, instead (note: measurements remain the same).


3) grab your rabbit ears and extend *each side* approximately 35cm (14in). stretch them horizontally. go around the house again.


it's probably a good idea to turn off as many non-essential devices and lights as you can during any of these tests. i believe your problem is multipath, but you could be right about being machine-generated noise. it's worth noting that i have 2 PCs with analog TV cards and that's what i use as DVR. i get Ch-13 at 40% or 70% depending on where i place my Folded Dipoles.


----------



## foxycat

*nordloewelabs--Could you be more specific about how to construct the folded dipole? Is this actually better than the bowtie that RS sells?


I'm in an apt bldg, 12 mi north of the ESB. I now have the rooftop antenna and my UFO (I think this is what you meant by the saucer-shaped Radio Shack antenna) on a splitter both feeding into the box. NBC-4 comes in all broken up or too weak to make a pic. I can get 2, 7 and 13. 5, 9 and 11 don't interest me. Without the UFO, 2 and 7 are intermittent. Any ideas? According to TVFool, all I would need is a small indoor antenna. Ha!*


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16759264
> 
> 
> ...I tried installing my video capture software on my laptop, and then turning off my home theater PC. Surprisingly, I got the same results. Of course, I used the laptop in the same room that the HTPC is installed in, which is directly below the attic-mounted antenna. And for all that I know, the laptop may have as much or more RF emissions as the HTPC.
> 
> 
> The next thing that I'm thinking about trying is running a cable down to the basement and trying things out there. If the PC is the source of the interference, then the antenna will be considerably less likely to pick up that RF noise, and the pre-amp will boost the signal beyond what could leak into the PC-mounted tuners via the cable connections.



I usually get 13 with a folded dipole in my attic with 3 bars (out of 10). If I turn on my laptop in the same room, the signal complete breaks up until the laptop boots, then it comes back, but with only 1 or 2 bars. If I am reading this web site and refresh it, or go to a new page, the signal goes away again. When I shut down the computer, the signal again disappears until the computer is off completely!


Mike


----------



## nordloewelabs

Folded Dipole is a *good replacement for rabbit ears* when dealing with Hi-VHF. it can handle UHF too, but not better than an HDTVa or UFO! however, since you are only 12 miles away, a FD will probably get you the UHF channels too. the channels that will benefit the most are *ch-7 and ch-13*. as things are right now, in order to get ch-11, one needs either an outdoor antenna or a lot of luck! dont worry if you cant receive ch-7 at first. WABC has already applied with the FCC for a signal boost so the FD will probably get you WABC in a few weeks.


here are 4 links that will help you. i'm sure there are others here that can also provide you good info. you can start with the 1st or 2nd link. i took a simple approach because i dont have any tools or handy-man skills.

A cheap and easy TV antenna (using 300ohm twin-lead)
K7MEM - Folded Dipole Design (using any conductor)
Frequency Wavelength Calculator 
Television frequencies on Wikipedia 



1) pick the particular channel for which your antenna will be optimized. you should pick ch-10 because it's equidistant to ch-7 and ch-13. however, if you'd rather prioritize ch-7, feel free to pick it, instead. according to the Wikipedia link, ch-10 = 195Mhz (mid-point between 192 and 198Mhz). Ch-7 = 177Mhz; ch-13 = 213Mhz.


2) enter ch-10's frequency (195Mhz) on K7MEM's calculator and write down the length "L" it returns. note that "L" is how *wide* your antenna should be, not how much wire you should buy! in my antenna , i use a random spacing "S" of approx 7cm, but you can use less because the spacing "S" doesnt seem to be critical (try changing its value in the calculator and you'll see).


3) buy 12-AWG wire or thicker. *thicker is better* because, at the length you will need, the wire will sag on its own weight. if you can, buy a copper pipe, instead, but be careful when folding it since it can break. another good alternative is to flatten a copper pipe with a hammer. the amount of wire/pipe you'll buy is based on the formula: 2L + 2S. for example, for ch-10: *(2 x 0.732m) + (2 x 0.07m) = 1.604m.*


4) buy *12 or more feet of RG6 cable*. you will need to walk around the room to find the sweet spot. so a short cable is not advised.


5) buy a *75 to 300ohm balun* at RadioShack. tie it to the open ends of the Folded Dipole using tape. you can solder it too, but better not to do it before testing the antenna.


6) find the sweet spot. this will likely be the most annoying and time-consuming part of this whole project. you might need to place the antenna exactly 5 inches above your kitchen table, facing a half-empty bottle of coke. yes, it can get this picky. my FD is hanging on a lamp stand, but works better in the kitchen.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MTVhike* /forum/post/16761049
> 
> 
> When I shut down the computer, the signal again disappears until the computer is off completely!



could be specifically related to the Wireless card in the computer. does the signal oscillates when you open a big file as well? a possible solution would be using a different channel on your router. i'm guessing you are networked via a wireless router.


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16761369
> 
> 
> could be specifically related to the Wireless card in the computer. does the signal oscillates when you open a big file as well? a possible solution would be using a different channel on your router. i'm guessing you are networked via a wireless router.



My wireless card is turned off; I use a wired ethernet connection.

Mike


----------



## nordloewelabs

so you only get interference when loading webpages?


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16761391
> 
> 
> so you only get interference when loading webpages?



No; I get interference when I turn the computer on while it is booting, loading or changing a web page, hybernating the computer. If, while the computer is on I don't do anything, there is much less interference (but not none). I think it is only on channel 13. I don't get 11 and don't usually watch 7. I notice no interference on the UHF channels.

Mike


----------



## rcodey

Did digital channel 40 in West Orange increase their power this week? I am asking because I live in West Orange and just this week I lost all Philadelphia UHF digitals except CBS-27. I'm wondering if my Channel Master pre-amp is now suffering from overload.


----------



## SnellKrell

Digital Channel 40, WXTV is licensed to Paterson, NJ and transmits from the Empire State Building, not in West Orange.


There is no record of the station increasing its power. It has one of the higher positions on the ESB's Antenna Mast.


You are probably experiencing changes in reception due to weather.


----------



## LenL

Just cancelled cable as I am happy with OTA now. Just received the DTVPAL DVR and although I have not recorded a single show or even tried, I find the tuner is better than my TV's and it locks on the borderline signals better. Plus I now have a program guide which the TV did not have!


I don't know that I can compare the signal strength now between the DTVPAL DVR versus my Sharp TV as they probably use a different measurement. Now I am getting 4.1 and 5.1 perfectly with almost zero pixilation. Stations 2.1, 7.1, 25.1, 31.1, 50.1, 63.1 and 68.1 come in quite well with an occasional blip. I am seeing 9.1, 13.1 41.1, 47.1 and 58.1 on occasion with lots of pixilation from time to time. I have not seen much of 11.1 which appears to be very bad.


----------



## FrankH3rd




rothe said:


> That's an important data point. Thank you. This further supports the theory that the transmitted signal is strong enough in my area, and that I have an RF noise source nearby.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Before June 12, how was your reception of analog channel 13 WNET? Was the picture quality good, or was there any interference, heterodyning bars, noise, etc? If there was, this may suggest a cause for you current inability to receive digital 13. Also, how was the quality of analog 13 compared to analog 7 and 11?
> 
> 
> Frank
> 
> WA2ISK


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16763908
> 
> 
> Before June 12, how was your reception of analog channel 13 WNET? Was the picture quality good, or was there any interference, heterodyning bars, noise, etc? If there was, this may suggest a cause for you current inability to receive digital 13. Also, how was the quality of analog 13 compared to analog 7 and 11?



I had a minimal amount of EMI, and a barely tolerable amount of snow. In other words, there was some evidence of power line interference, and the signal was rather weak to start off with. Shame on me, but I only just realized this yesterday afternoon: the residential power lines serving my house and my neighbors run across poles at about the same height as my attic-mounted antenna. They're about 25 feet ahead of the front of my antenna, directly in the line of site to the ESB.


At this point, I've optimized the antenna for rock-solid reliable reception of every channel that I want except Thirteen. Fortunately, I'm getting both NJN and WLIW reliably. For reference, I'm also getting 7 and 11 reliably, too, in spite of the power line (and possibly other) interference issues that I've mentioned.


One of these days, I intend to install a gable mount on the far end of the roof. I had intended to put an FM antenna and rotor up (for WBGO out of Newark), but when I do, I'll try that location for channel 13 reception first. If it works well - it's another 20 feet further back and 7 feet higher relative to those power lines - then I'll stick with it for TV reception, and try the attic for FM radio. Then I'll get to find out how my community and immediate neighbors feel about a fourteen-foot antenna prominently on display in our "historic preservation district."


----------



## rcodey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16763664
> 
> 
> Digital Channel 40, WXTV is licensed to Paterson, NJ and transmits from the Empire State Building, not in West Orange.
> 
> 
> There is no record of the station increasing its power. It has one of the higher positions on the ESB's Antenna Mast.
> 
> 
> You are probably experiencing changes in reception due to weather.



A link in this forum indicated a transmitter for 40 in West Orange.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcodey* /forum/post/16766037
> 
> 
> A link in this forum indicated a transmitter for 40 in West Orange.



36 (47-1) has a transmitter in West Orange.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

To which link are you referring?


There are a lot of links and there's a lot of misinformation.


I suggest you rely on Rabbit Ears - more up to date than even governmental data.

http://www.rabbitears.info/ss/ 


Once again, WXTV transmission facility is on the Empire State Building!


If you don't believe me and since you're located in West Orange, knock on the door and ask!!!!


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MTVhike* /forum/post/16761049
> 
> 
> I usually get 13 with a folded dipole in my attic with 3 bars (out of 10). If I turn on my laptop in the same room, the signal complete breaks up until the laptop boots, then it comes back, but with only 1 or 2 bars. If I am reading this web site and refresh it, or go to a new page, the signal goes away again. When I shut down the computer, the signal again disappears until the computer is off completely!
> 
> 
> Mike



I just stumbled on an article in Tom's Hardware Guide. Among other things, the last few pages deals with EMI from computers. It was written with an eye towards health effects, but there's an interesting graph of RF emissions out of the tested computer that shows EMI noise levels throughout a range from about 30 Mhz to a little over 1 GHz. The article is here:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/decibels...view-1338.html 


The section on computer RF emissions begins here:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/decibels...w-1338-10.html 


And the graph to which I refer is here:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/4/G/215...st%20Tests.jpg 


If the tested system is typical of many laptops and desktops, then it may have some impact on our discussions. It would seem that throughout the frequency range that they tested, there is a *minimum* of 30 dbμV/m of RF noise emitted by the tested computer. My memory of my college physics has faded enough that I don't feel like trying to figure out how much of that noise might be making its way back to my antenna and, in turn, to the computer's own tuners, but I'll bet that somebody could figure that out based on these example numbers.


An even bigger take away for me was that there was definitely noise throughout the VHF-hi range of some of our troublesome HDTV signals. That includes the 174-180Mhz range of channel 7, 198-204Mhz for channel 11, and 210-216Mhz for channel 13.


Again, I'll propose a solution for some of us - and I'll admit that I haven't tested this myself yet: move the computer and/or antenna so that the computer is as far-removed from the antenna's aperture as possible. If that means moving the computer to the basement or to a room far behind a very directional antenna, or moving the antenna to the roof, or whatever, it's going to help.


And for those of us, like me, who are receiving their HDTV signals through a home-theater PC (HTPC), it will probably help to use a pre-amplifier with your antenna. My thinking is that the pre-amp will boost the antenna signal beyond the RF noise level inherent in the computer. All you need to do is get a clean signal stronger than that noise level, and you should be golden.


More to follow....


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16766381
> 
> 
> I just stumbled on an article in Tom's Hardware Guide. Among other things, the last few pages deals with EMI from computers. It was written with an eye towards health effects, but there's an interesting graph of RF emissions out of the tested computer that shows EMI noise levels throughout a range from about 30 Mhz to a little over 1 GHz. The article is here:
> 
> http://www.tomsguide.com/us/decibels...view-1338.html
> 
> 
> The section on computer RF emissions begins here:
> 
> http://www.tomsguide.com/us/decibels...w-1338-10.html
> 
> 
> And the graph to which I refer is here:
> 
> http://media.bestofmicro.com/4/G/215...st%20Tests.jpg
> 
> 
> If the tested system is typical of many laptops and desktops, then it may have some impact on our discussions. It would seem that throughout the frequency range that they tested, there is a *minimum* of 30 dbμV/m of RF noise emitted by the tested computer. My memory of my college physics has faded enough that I don't feel like trying to figure out how much of that noise might be making its way back to my antenna and, in turn, to the computer's own tuners, but I'll bet that somebody could figure that out based on these example numbers.
> 
> 
> An even bigger take away for me was that there was definitely noise throughout the VHF-hi range of some of our troublesome HDTV signals. That includes the 174-180Mhz range of channel 7, 198-204Mhz for channel 11, and 210-216Mhz for channel 13.
> 
> 
> Again, I'll propose a solution for some of us - and I'll admit that I haven't tested this myself yet: move the computer and/or antenna so that the computer is as far-removed from the antenna's aperture as possible. If that means moving the computer to the basement or to a room far behind a very directional antenna, or moving the antenna to the roof, or whatever, it's going to help.
> 
> 
> And for those of us, like me, who are receiving their HDTV signals through a home-theater PC (HTPC), it will probably help to use a pre-amplifier with your antenna. My thinking is that the pre-amp will boost the antenna signal beyond the RF noise level inherent in the computer. All you need to do is get a clean signal stronger than that noise level, and you should be golden.
> 
> 
> More to follow....



Reading you post, I was curious to see if the Dell desktop computer on the second floor of our house would have a negative impact on reception. (This pc is a backup for us and is not normally on when I am watching tv in our second floor bedroom). Our second floor setup is this:


Channel Master CM3016 in attic aimed at NYC (about 40 miles to NE), about 25 feet RG6 coax to A/B switch to Zenith DTT901 digital converter; simple bowtie antenna sitting next to tv to a/b switch aimed at Philly (CH6 WPVI & most Philly uhf stations are received off backend of attic antenna, bowtie the remainder of the Philly UHF stations, almost 50 miles to SW). See photo. Computer is about 12 feet away in next bedroom & located directly below attic antenna.


I tuned to each NYC & Philly station on each antenna & displayed Zenith DTT901 signal levels, also looked for picture pixilation, etc. I then turned on the PC and repeated.


Outcome- I did not observe any difference in signal levels or picture pixilation with the PC on or off & concluded that PC was not negatively impacting digital signals in our setup, even though the PC was within 10 feet vertically of the antenna.


We also have two tv's and one pc on our first floor and basement connected to a second Channel Master CM3016 antenna in our attic, with a cheapo Phillips 10db amp to offset splitting loss;

1 Zenith DTT901 digital converter, 1 Magnavox TB100MW9 digital converter, and 1 Hauppauge HVR950 connected to a Dell desktop PC.


Since this Dell is almost always on and we are receiving all NYC and some Philly stations off the back of the antenna, including CH6 WPVI and CH12 WHYY, I already knew that the PC was not causing problems. A quick check showed that all three devices had about equal signal levels and picture quality. But is should be noted that this PC is located two stories below the attic antenna, quite a distance away. So distance from the antenna may indeed help in reducing signal interference.


One last thought- if your computer serves as your digital tv, then you might want to download (free) TSReaderLight. If it can tune onto a digital signal, it will provide a good amount of insight about what is going on.
http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/ 


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16766381
> 
> 
> 
> I just stumbled on an article in Tom's Hardware Guide. Among other things, the last few pages deals with EMI from computers. It was written with an eye towards health effects, but there's an interesting graph of RF emissions out of the tested computer that shows EMI noise levels throughout a range from about 30 Mhz to a little over 1 GHz.



i just performed a few tests in my place. i have a CM-7000 converter and my antenna is a home-made Folded Dipole. my tuner is an analog Hauppauge PVR-250. since WNET is the strongest Hi-VHF channel here, i decided to only test ch-13. here is what i did, step-by-step:


======================================


- turned 1st desktop PC on (same room as antenna) and launched the TV software.

- ch-13 started at 40% signal strength (typical here).

- turned all the CFL lights on.... no changes!

- turned the 2nd desktop PC on (same room as antenna).... no changes!

- placed my TabletPC (still off) 5 ft below the antenna.... no changes!

- turned TabletPC on.... signal immediately dropped to ZERO!

- put TabletPC on Hibernation.... signal still ZERO.

- took TabletPC to another room.... signal still ZERO!

- re-started the converter 2x..... signal raised to 10%!

- re-scanned for channels 2x.... signal raised to 15%!

- waited 15 minutes.... signal raised to 20%!

- restarted the converter again.... signal still 20%!


i'll run the same test again later. i'm *sure* the TabletPC killed the reception (5 ft away from antenna) of ch-13, but i'm not sure why the signal remained low.... sometimes it happens here. it could have been a coincidence caused by a cloud.... also, i'm not sure whether the signal started raising due to the re-starts and re-scans or due to the passing of time.


it's important to stress that the 2nd desktop PC did not affect reception at all. also, it's worth noting that the TabletPC (the only device to affect reception) is the only machine here equipped with a wireless card. maybe that particular component is to blame....(?)


more tests later....


----------



## nordloewelabs

new test at late hours:


======================================


- turned 1st desktop PC on (same room as antenna) and launched the TV software.

- ch-13 started at 50% signal strength (typical after mid-night).

- turned all the CFL lights on.... no changes!

- turned the 2nd desktop PC on (same room as antenna).... signal dropped to 20%!

- turned 2nd desktop PC off.... signal returned to 50%!

- placed my TabletPC (still off) 5 ft below the antenna.... no changes!

- turned TabletPC on.... signal dropped to 20%!

- put TabletPC on Hibernation.... signal returned to 50%!

- turned TabletPC on, this time, 8 ft away from antenna.... signal remained 50%!



this time both the 2nd desktop and the TabletPC caused the signal to weaken. and unlike the previous test, turning them off restored the signal strength to its 50% level. the culprit cant be a wireless card because the desktop PC doesnt have one. i guess the spinning of the hard drive causes the problem. the TabletPC, if far enough from antenna, causes no interference.


----------



## SemiChemE

By some miracle, I get 11 pretty well up here in Poughkeepsie at 65 miles from the ESB. I get 13 as well, although sometimes its pixelated. However, I can't get even a blip from WABC-7, despite TVfool's prediction that its signal should be ~8db stronger than 11 and 13. I suspect the reason is co-channel interference with WXXA-7 from Albany, since I can actually see about 10% signal (unwatchable) if I point my antenna to the North. I had hoped that moving my antenna from the attic to the roof might make WXXA-7 watchable, but now I'm wondering if any gains will be canceled when WABC boosts their signal.


My antenna, a VHF Yagi design, seems to be quite directional, so at first I thought co-channel interference should be minimal, but I can't find any other explanation for why WABC is absent and WXXA-7 is so weak. Note that the other Albany VHF stations (6 and 12) come in at around 30-40% and are watchable. I'm also wondering if the lower power Albany station WNYA-13 might be responsible for WNET-13's flakiness. Any thoughts?


Finally, I have to admit that I'm a bit disgusted that the FCC allowed these two Albany stations (WXXA-7 and WNYA-13) to move from UHF to VHF channels with co-channel issues. If one assumes an 80 mile range for VHF, it should have been apparent that there would be a fairly large zone (~30 miles) of overlap. If VHF was needed for coverage in the Berkshires and Adirondacks, couldn't they have used 8, 9, or 10 instead?


----------



## dagger666

has anyone tried to run the antenna through a surge suppressor with EMI/RF filtering like Cyberpower and Belkin power conditioner? On the first floor the DTVPAL monoprice antenna runs trough a Cyberpower 880 while my bed room monoprice antenna goes through a belkin which both have EMI/RF filtering. Upstairs phillips digital rabbit ears goes through another Cyberpower 880 and can pick up everything. Both first floor TVs have problems with 11, 7, 13.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/16768296
> 
> 
> has anyone tried to run the antenna through a surge suppressor with EMI/RF filtering like Cyberpower and Belkin power conditioner?



i have tried it. there was no noticeable difference.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16767396
> 
> 
> One last thought- if your computer serves as your digital tv, then you might want to download (free) TSReaderLight. If it can tune onto a digital signal, it will provide a good amount of insight about what is going on.
> http://www.coolstf.com/tsreader/



I took a look at their web site. It's an interesting program, and the error rate information looks particularly useful.


However, I'm already using another program that gives me much the same information. MPEG2Repair ( http://www.videohelp.com/tools/MPEG2Repair ) can fix many transport stream captures and gives me an error report as well. Here's a typical report:



> Quote:
> MPEG2Repair: D:\\The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer-2009-07-03-0.tp
> 
> 
> Sequence Frame 0(2-I) / Time 0:00:00 :
> 
> VideoWarning: Discontinuity of (11+) packet(s). First packet ending at offset 70688
> 
> Additional error(s) detected. Increase VerboseLogLevel in INI file for details.
> 
> FileInfo: Last video errors span 168 bytes at file offset 70215
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sequence Frame 107482(38-B) / Time 0:59:56 :
> 
> Error: Packet 13181877 has no TS Sync Byte.
> 
> Additional error(s) detected. Increase VerboseLogLevel in INI file for details.
> 
> FileInfo: Last video errors span 170 bytes at file offset 2478243842
> 
> 
> Sequence Frame 107483(38-B) / Time 0:59:56 :
> 
> Info: End of MPEG2 sequence
> 
> 
> Sequence Summary:
> 
> 
> File Size Processed: 2.31 GB, Play Time: 00h:59m:53s
> 
> 704 x 480, 29.97 fps, 15.00 Mbps (4.99 Mbps Average).
> 
> Average Video Quality: 20.35 KB/Frame, 0.49 Bits/Pixel.
> 
> AC3 Audio: 2/0 Channels (L, R), 48.0 kHz, 192 kbps.
> 
> Dialog Normalization: -27.0 dB
> 
> 31 of 107483 video frames found with errors.
> 
> 8 of 112294 audio frames found with errors.
> 
> 63932 corrupted video bytes in file.
> 
> 2.769433 seconds of video timestamp gaps.
> 
> 2.752000 seconds of audio timestamp gaps.
> 
> 
> End of Log



This is one of the worst reports from a typically clean station for me (WLIW). Note that the entire transport stream capture was 59:56 long, but I had about three seconds of total errors. That would be watchable, with some minor pixelation and audio dropouts. Once the errors get beyond about ten seconds in total, the program is often pretty much unwatchable.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16767983
> 
> 
> new test at late hours:
> 
> 
> ======================================
> 
> 
> - turned 1st desktop PC on (same room as antenna) and launched the TV software.
> 
> - ch-13 started at 50% signal strength (typical after mid-night).
> 
> - turned all the CFL lights on.... no changes!
> 
> - turned the 2nd desktop PC on (same room as antenna).... signal dropped to 20%!
> 
> - turned 2nd desktop PC off.... signal returned to 50%!
> 
> - placed my TabletPC (still off) 5 ft below the antenna.... no changes!
> 
> - turned TabletPC on.... signal dropped to 20%!
> 
> - put TabletPC on Hibernation.... signal returned to 50%!
> 
> - turned TabletPC on, this time, 8 ft away from antenna.... signal remained 50%!
> 
> 
> 
> this time both the 2nd desktop and the TabletPC caused the signal to weaken. and unlike the previous test, turning them off restored the signal strength to its 50% level. the culprit cant be a wireless card because the desktop PC doesnt have one. i guess the spinning of the hard drive causes the problem. the TabletPC, if far enough from antenna, causes no interference.



I expect that the only people that will be having problems with computer-generated EMI are people in fringe areas or who are being clobbered by multipath in such a manner that their signal is already very weak. For those people, putting a noisy computer in range of the antenna just might be enough to put them over the edge.


Knowledge of this issue is not likely to solve everyone's VHF reception problems, but it might help a few.


----------



## rcodey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16766091
> 
> 
> 36 (47-1) has a transmitter in West Orange.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Did 36 recently increase power or change their signal pattern?


----------



## rcodey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16766108
> 
> 
> To which link are you referring?
> 
> 
> There are a lot of links and there's a lot of misinformation.
> 
> 
> I suggest you rely on Rabbit Ears - more up to date than even governmental data.
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/ss/
> 
> 
> Once again, WXTV transmission facility is on the Empire State Building!
> 
> 
> If you don't believe me and since you're located in West Orange, knock on the door and ask!!!!



The richlandtowers link posted by you on July 1.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcodey* /forum/post/16770582
> 
> 
> The richlandtowers link posted by you on July 1.




As Trip has already pointed out, you are confusing WXTV, Channel 40 transmitting from the Empire State Building with WNJU, Channel 36 which is currently using a site in West Orange, New Jersey!


----------



## rcodey

My mistake it is Ch.36 from West Orange.I'm sorry. Did some work this evening and connected the same antenna to my Sony HDD-500 and all the Philly Digital UHF stations were received. The problem appears to be with the Directv receiver HR20-700 I've been using. All Philly except CBS-26(the strongest for me for several years) disappeared a few days ago.

BTW, thanks for the rabbit ears site without it I won't have received some of the Philly stations. Had to use 17.3 for 17 and 34.3 for WCAU(NBC).


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcodey* /forum/post/16771345
> 
> 
> My mistake it is Ch.36 from West Orange.I'm sorry. Did some work this evening and connected the same antenna to my Sony HDD-500 and all the Philly Digital UHF stations were received. The problem appears to be with the Directv receiver HR20-700 I've been using. All Philly except CBS-26(the strongest for me for several years) disappeared a few days ago.
> 
> BTW, thanks for the rabbit ears site without it I won't have received some of the Philly stations. Had to use 17.3 for 17 and 34.3 for WCAU(NBC).



I'm really surprised your getting all the Phill stations all the way in West Orange.


That gives me hope I'll be able to get them in for me in Woodbridge area. What antenna are you using? I'm assuming you have it pointed toward Philly or have a rotor?


----------



## rcodey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16771385
> 
> 
> I'm really surprised your getting all the Phill stations all the way in West Orange.
> 
> 
> That gives me hope I'll be able to get them in for me in Woodbridge area. What antenna are you using? I'm assuming you have it pointed toward Philly or have a rotor?



Right now I'm using a Channel Master 4248 stuck toward Philly. The rotor stopped working a year ago.Before it broke I could receive some Connecticut, Allentown, Harrisburg and Scranton-Wilkes-Barre UHF stations. My big advantage is elevation of 510 feet.


----------



## Falcon_77

If the FCC needs any proof that NYC and Hartford shouldn't be sharing channels, they should have a look at the report I posted in the Hartford thread. From Mystic, CT at ~112 miles from the ESB:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post16777449 


I can receive WPXN, from the "null" side, with a small 2-bay UHF antenna pointed to NYC. Even with the main CM4228 pointed to Hartford, I routinely lose WTIC/31 due to co-channel.


Where are 52-59 when we need them, or perhaps 60-69 instead? It might be "easier" to get some of those back.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16777506
> 
> 
> If the FCC needs any proof that NYC and Hartford shouldn't be sharing channels, they should have a look at the report I posted in the Hartford thread. From Mystic, CT at ~112 miles from the ESB:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post16777449
> 
> 
> I can receive WPXN, from the "null" side, with a small 2-bay UHF antenna pointed to NYC. Even with the main CM4228 pointed to Hartford, I routinely lose WTIC/31 due to co-channel.
> 
> 
> Where are 52-59 when we need them, or perhaps 60-69 instead? It might be "easier" to get some of those back.



This sounds a little incredible.

The ch 31 antenna is (according to the FCC) @ 410AMSL and Mystic is 20miles beyond the radio horizon in that direction, which is at 50miles.

I also looked up the FCC database and the ERP in the 'null" toward Mystic is app 100kW max. That translates to app 30dBu at 30'AG. But theoretically you need at least 41dBu to decode and practically, 51dBu.

Maybe the propagation over the water is the reason you are able to decode and why the radio horizon and path loss calculation over ground do not apply...


----------



## Falcon_77

Yes, it's definitely tropo and water path tropo can be most effective. It can make quite a few distant NYC stations stronger than my "locals," which are at 51 miles.


----------



## eclectogeek

Reception info ~35 to 40 miles due west of NYC in western morris county, nj. Inside the attic CM4228 old style (using for UHF only) and winegard HD7694 (using VHF only) combined through a low loss vhf/uhf combiner (not a backward splitter!) then fed through an old radio shack remote distribution amp in attic to 5 TVs. Receiving all NY stations at 65% or better consistently. VHF 7, 11 and 13 are fine at 85%, 77% and 75% respectively. CBS 2.1 runs in the mid 80's but bounces around a little later at night. 4.1 runs around 90-93%. Ion 31 runs around 65%. Percents measured on directv H10 receivers.


Tried using the HD7694 alone but not enough UHF gain so continue to use my old CM4228 for UHF.


----------



## kickass69

What town over this way? You can tell where I am. Atleast that's the unfortuante truth it seems. An antenna in the attic or outside vs here at 1,100 feet with RCA ANT525 antenna/rabbit ears up this way. I only get CBS 2.1, NBC 4.1/4.2/4.4, My Network 9.1/9.2 (Fox), 63.1-5 (WMBC) and 68.1 (WFUT) and 68.2 along with WKOB-LP (Channel 42) and WASA-LP (Channel 64). Would be nice to get NJN but no luck.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i'm not receiving ABC, CW or Thirteen right now (Tue, 2am). are all three of them off-air? maybe they combined antenna is under going maintenance.... that sucks! i was planning to record the rerun of Miss Marple at 2:30am.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16767983
> 
> 
> new test at late hours:
> 
> 
> ======================================
> 
> 
> - turned 1st desktop PC on (same room as antenna) and launched the TV software.
> 
> - ch-13 started at 50% signal strength (typical after mid-night).
> 
> - turned all the CFL lights on.... no changes!
> 
> - turned the 2nd desktop PC on (same room as antenna).... signal dropped to 20%!
> 
> - turned 2nd desktop PC off.... signal returned to 50%!
> 
> - placed my TabletPC (still off) 5 ft below the antenna.... no changes!
> 
> - turned TabletPC on.... signal dropped to 20%!
> 
> - put TabletPC on Hibernation.... signal returned to 50%!
> 
> - turned TabletPC on, this time, 8 ft away from antenna.... signal remained 50%!
> 
> 
> 
> this time both the 2nd desktop and the TabletPC caused the signal to weaken. and unlike the previous test, turning them off restored the signal strength to its 50% level. the culprit cant be a wireless card because the desktop PC doesnt have one.



Certain desktop PC power supplies are marketed without proper EMI filters.


People who build computers will usually land up with one of those.


Old Macs are a great source of the proper filter. Just gut the power supply. The necessary stuff is easily swapped in to the offending unit if one can solder.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16778912
> 
> 
> Yes, it's definitely tropo and water path tropo can be most effective. It can make quite a few distant NYC stations stronger than my "locals," which are at 51 miles.




In case you have not seen this:
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html 


I'm currently receiving television from many stations normally not seen at my location.


----------



## dagger666

 http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...497b1ea66c3fc8 


I'm having trouble with 7,11,13 also, either they all come in or just one. Last night they all came in until 11 when all 3 were lost. This morning 11 came in with a 16 strength while 13 doesn't come in and 7 is all screwed up. I moved my monoprice antenna around my room and put it back where i had it the first time. It was on the left side of my back window then i moved it to the right which gave me all channel and 13. Now after the switch i moved it back to the left side of the window. Channel 5 is the best with a single strength of over 80 and it shows.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/16781834
> 
> 
> Certain desktop PC power supplies are marketed without proper EMI filters.
> 
> 
> People who build computers will usually land up with one of those.



i considered the possibility of being the PSU, but at end, i found the hard drive to be the more likely culprit because:


1) my PSU is an Antec BP500U.

2) the TabletPC, running on battery, also causes interference.


i'll investigate it further, anyway.


----------



## kousikb

I highly doubt whether EMI is causing issues with Hi-VHF reception. The last 3-4 days 7 and 13 are pretty messed up. Now I have laptop, netbook, HTPC (have a cheapo PSU.. came with the cabinet) and an old 700 Mhz athalon PC (for magicjack) running at the same time in my living room.. it doesn't worsen the situation for sure. What worsens (especially channel 7) is that if there are some strong winds blowing the leaves of the tree adjacent to my balcony.. I see that 7 breaks up. It doesn't affect 13 as much as RF 7. It doesnt affect the UHF at all. I have now learnt to live without 7, 11 and 13. If they come fine.. good.. otherwise I just switch to a different channel.. its not the end of the world. But definitely I will miss 7 when Lost have their final season this fall unless the situation improves.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16783449
> 
> 
> I highly doubt whether EMI is causing issues with Hi-VHF reception. The last 3-4 days 7 and 13 are pretty messed up. Now I have laptop, netbook, HTPC (have a cheapo PSU.. came with the cabinet) and an old 700 Mhz athalon PC (for magicjack) running at the same time in my living room.. it doesn't worsen the situation for sure. What worsens (especially channel 7) is that *if there are some strong winds blowing the leaves of the tree* adjacent to my balcony.. I see that 7 breaks up. It doesn't affect 13 as much as RF 7. It doesnt affect the UHF at all. I have now learnt to live without 7, 11 and 13. If they come fine.. good.. otherwise I just switch to a different channel.. its not the end of the world. But definitely I will miss 7 when Lost have their final season this fall unless the situation improves.



It isn't only the High V's that suffer due to high winds. The UHF channels also suffer. I can watch my signal meter (I have two HD TV's and a RCA convertor) go from full "pinned' condx to zero and then back to a solid signal. It isn't only effecting me. I was watching this happen to WNJM last Saturday and so I switched to my DirecTV feed (They get their signals over the air) and they had the same drop outs. Instead of pixilating the picture went to black on DirecTV. This is a major problem with OTA digital television. I'm not sure a power increase will help with LOS issues. The only fix I can think of would be greater buffering, but that would bring other issues to the table as well as firmwear updates for millions of TV's. This is a major problem in my opinion.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16783449
> 
> 
> I highly doubt whether EMI is causing issues with Hi-VHF reception.



That's a pretty broad statement. Certainly, it's not the cause of everybody's reception problems, but I have no doubt that it's a cause for some.


Those of us who are in fringe areas or other weak-signal areas will be more susceptible to EMI problems than those who have stronger signals. If the signal is weak, then noise levels are that much more likely to overwhelm those signals.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16783449
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt whether EMI is causing issues with Hi-VHF reception. The last 3-4 days 7 and 13 are pretty messed up. Now I have laptop, netbook, HTPC (have a cheapo PSU.. came with the cabinet) and an old 700 Mhz athalon PC (for magicjack) running at the same time in my living room.. it doesn't worsen the situation for sure.



it depends on the distance at which the device is from the antenna. in my tests here, with my TabletPC on the desk, approx 7 feet away from the antenna, there was no interference either. however, when i placed it below the antenna, about 5 feet away, it messed up the reception a lot.


my PC is on the floor, about 8 feet away. that's 1 foot farther than the distance between the antenna and the TabletPC when tested on the desk. the PC causes heavy interference.... the extra foot should make it harmless, but it doesnt. probably because it's more powerful than the TabletPC. unfortunately, i cant move the PC farther away to make any tests.


well, my point is: perhaps your machines arent causing interference because they are too far away from your antenna.


----------



## SubaruB4

is anyone having issues with WPIX? and WABC?


I'm watching WPIX now and my signal is around 50-70% but I get a audio drop out like every 5 seconds also the video will freeze for that second that the audio drops too..


Happened today which I was watching the Jackson thing.. It was rather annoying I thought it was the ABC feed that was doing that.


I ordered CV triple play yesterday but I will still keep my OTA HD connected


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16785768
> 
> 
> is anyone having issues with WPIX? and WABC?
> 
> 
> I'm watching WPIX now and my signal is around 50-70% but I get a audio drop out like every 5 seconds also the video will freeze for that second that the audio drops too..
> 
> 
> Happened today which I was watching the Jackson thing.. It was rather annoying I thought it was the ABC feed that was doing that.
> 
> 
> I ordered CV triple play yesterday but I will still keep my OTA HD connected



I do too

I don't think they have raised their power. They may have a channel combiner problems...But whatever, their reception in the last week or so has turned marginal


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16786162
> 
> 
> I do too
> 
> I don't think they have raised their power. They may have a channel combiner problems...But whatever, their reception in the last week or so has turned marginal



from what i remember, channels 7, 11 and 13 are in a combiner. given that ch-7 and ch-13 were off-air during the weenie hours of today, they might be doing work on the equipment.


----------



## SnellKrell

Haven't noticed any real difference in 7 and 11's reception.


Have not seen or heard of any Hi-V Combiner problems.


I've been checking whether the FCC has approved 7's request to boost power,

and it hasn't happened yet.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16786195
> 
> 
> I've been checking whether the FCC has approved 7's request to boost power,
> 
> and it hasn't happened yet.



once it's approved, how long does it take to get implemented?


----------



## Daniel Perales

It seems that I'm unable to recieve WNYE for a few days, now. I don't know if it's just off the air or not.


I live on the 18th floor in a Chelsea apartment complex with an unblocked view of the Empire State Building (less than a mile, away).


My antenna is an old Radio Shack indoor Double Bow-tie that I have placed against the window within the ESB line of sight.



Danny


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16786236
> 
> 
> once it's approved, how long does it take to get implemented?



I asked this very question of someone who should know and the answer astounded me.


"A few seconds!"


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daniel Perales* /forum/post/16786302
> 
> 
> It seems that I'm unable to recieve WNYE for a few days, now. I don't know if it's just off the air or not.



i often watch the news by DW and BBC on NYCTV 25.1. if they've changed anything, it hasnt been noticeable to me.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daniel Perales* /forum/post/16786302
> 
> 
> It seems that I'm unable to recieve WNYE for a few days, now. I don't know if it's just off the air or not.
> 
> 
> I live on the 18th floor in a Chelsea apartment complex with an unblocked view of the Empire State Building (less than a mile, away).
> 
> 
> My antenna is an old Radio Shack indoor Double Bow-tie that I have placed against the window within the ESB line of sight.
> 
> 
> 
> Danny




I been having issues with 25-2 for a few days.. I just got back from N.C. on Sunday and WNYE has been acting funny since then.


----------



## jpru34

I have noticed that Ion has been coming in significantly stronger the past 10 days (even after I factor in changes in the weather/atmosphere)


----------



## dagger666

I figured it would take the whole year to clear everything up. How come Channel 9 hasn't changed while 7,11,13 have? Did channel 9 stay the same or is it because comes from jersey. Some time i need to switch to channel 9 then go to channel 11 to clear up the crap. What happened to channel 21, it has always been trouble funny since it and me are on long island.


----------



## kickass69

That's because WWOR moved to UHF..Channel 38 while the rest moved back to High VHF which has been the huge problem area reception wise.


----------



## SnellKrell

WWOR, since it began digital transmission has always been on Channel 38!


Boy, did the station luck out.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/16789241
> 
> 
> I have noticed that Ion has been coming in significantly stronger the past 10 days (even after I factor in changes in the weather/atmosphere)



I took a quick look at my strength meter and I do not notice any difference. Its been about 40% for me since I hooked up my antenna a few months ago


----------



## nordloewelabs

is WNET-13 going off-air *every day* after midnight?!?!

whatever they are doing on the Combiner, i hope it improves my reception.

ABC-7 and CW-11 seem to be off too.


either that or all these channels are broadcasting at super

low power in the weenie hours....


----------



## kickass69

Ever since the transition it seems at midnight most of the NYC tv stations on the Empire State Building either shutdown or go to low power until 4 AM or so as I've noticed WCBS and WNBC go bye bye as well at midnight. I also noticed WCBS-FM go to low power as well out this way at midnight.


----------



## newhdcrt

Tonight during Craig Ferguson's monologue at about 12:45 am I lost cbs 2-1 put picked up cbs 3-1 from philly.

This is with a cm 2016 which replaced my radio shack 15-264. Neither of which will pull in any vhf except channel 39 which is analog. I am in Plainfield NJ 07060 20 miles from the ESB and can receive uhf channel 3 from philly with the antenna facing the wrong direction, but can't receive any vhf signals from NY. I receive all the uhf channels that antenna web says are available. Would a weingard 1080 be any better?


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16794239
> 
> 
> is WNET-13 going off-air *every day* after midnight?!?!
> 
> whatever they are doing on the Combiner, i hope it improves my reception.
> 
> ABC-7 and CW-11 seem to be off too.
> 
> 
> either that or all these channels are broadcasting at super
> 
> low power in the weenie hours....



Interesting. They must be going to lower power cause I was watching 13 from 1am to around 2:45 and all was well.


----------



## SnellKrell

I doubt what is currently being done will improve your reception. The only major change at hand that would affect signal quality is Channel 7's request for more power.


More than likely, work is being done in the middle of the night on the antenna mast and stations are switching to the Aux. antennas between the 82nd and 85th floors of the ESB.


----------



## DTVintermods

*Users of amplified indoor antennas:*

It has come to my attention that some well-known models act as their own transmitters as long as they are ON even if not connected to the DTV set and this have caused some channel blocking. This previously unknown consequence of the amp is in addition to the nonlinear distortion generated by the amp.

Unfortunately, these device do not have bypass switch into passive mode...


----------



## nordloewelabs

i called WNET-13 today. now they have a long automatic message that tries to explain the reception problems. when i called them 2-3 weeks ago, there was no such message. they might have got flooded with inquires regarding bad reception. well, among other things the message says something like:



> Quote:
> *WNET msg:* WNET, ABC and CW are broadcast from the same antenna on top of ESB using "equal strength" and we are working with the FCC to address the persistent problems in our area. if you can receive ch-7 and ch-11, you should be able to receive ch-13 as well. some antenna adjustment might be necessary, though.



equal strength? did i misunderstand this? what will happen once ABC gets its signal boost? can the combiner boost individual stations? after the message, i talked to a customer rep regarding the reception problems post-midnight:



> Quote:
> *WNET rep:* every year, during the summer, some mantainence is done on the antenna at late hours. and during the process, the 3 stations on the combiner transmit from a lower floor. there will be a short pause on the work in a few days, but it will be re-started again a few weeks later.



so basically, during the summer, late night reception isnt guatanteed.







so dont count on late night talkshows or reruns. i also asked whether the work on the antenna had anything to do with the bad Hi-VHF reception that affects the area. he answered something like this:



> Quote:
> *WNET rep:* i dont have details on the nature of the work done. i believe it's a routine annual mantainence unrelated to the Hi-VHF problems.


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16794239
> 
> 
> is WNET-13 going off-air *every day* after midnight?!?!
> 
> whatever they are doing on the Combiner, i hope it improves my reception.
> 
> ABC-7 and CW-11 seem to be off too.
> 
> 
> either that or all these channels are broadcasting at super
> 
> low power in the weenie hours....



Strange, I'm seeing exactly the opposite. Previously, I was getting CW-11 and WNET-13 at a watchable ~30%. I was getting nothing from ABC-7. Starting last week, WNET-13 dropped to ~5% and ABC-7 started appearing at ~10% (unwatchable). Last night around 1am ABC-7 dropped out completely and sure enough WNET-13 jumped back up to ~30%. This morning ABC-7 was up to ~15%, still not enough for a picture and WNET-13 was back down to ~5%.


Perhaps the Alternate antenna is at a sweetspot for me to get WNET-13? If so, I wish they'd just stay there! CW-11 has been more or less steady during this whole time.


----------



## lost51

I don't know if this has been talked about before, so forgive me if it has.


What is the business reason for the 7, 11 and 13 channels to go back to VHF? Surely they would have known people will have problems. Their market share will go down because no one can see their shows along with the paid commercials. I can just Hulu most of their shows and bypass everything else because I can't get good reception.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *newhdcrt* /forum/post/16794433
> 
> 
> Tonight during Craig Ferguson's monologue at about 12:45 am I lost cbs 2-1 put picked up cbs 3-1 from philly.
> 
> This is with a cm 2016 which replaced my radio shack 15-264. Neither of which will pull in any vhf except channel 39 which is analog. I am in Plainfield NJ 07060 20 miles from the ESB and can receive uhf channel 3 from philly with the antenna facing the wrong direction, but can't receive any vhf signals from NY. I receive all the uhf channels that antenna web says are available. Would a weingard 1080 be any better?



The CM 2016 antenna is UHF yagi design with a VHF dipole added.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Five_Antennas.html 


The article also mentioned that a CM Titan 2 7777 preamp dramatically improves reception for the CM 2016. Pete Putman writes: "Hitched to a high-gain preamp, though, it holds its own on UHF with the C1 and C2, and can snag those high-band V's with ease even off the rear of the antenna (although let's face it, the VHF element is basically a dipole with a figure-8 reception pattern!)."


As for a Winegard 1080, I know someone who has one up in Putnam County, NY (45 miles North of ESB) and he can't receive Channels 7, 11 or 13 with it.


----------



## ira_l

I'm about 30 miles NNE of Empire in Westchester County, NY. Ossining is on the Hudson. I'm about a mile east of the river. Since the transition, I have been having trouble receiving WNYW and WWOR, particularly during the daytime hours. WWOR is generally OK, not great though with occational pixellation and dropouts of the signal. WNYW is extremely pixellated when it does come in at all. At night, I get both at 70% to 80% SS with no problem,


My antenna is attic mounted, RCA ANT3036W at about 12 feet off the ground.

It is connected to a Channel Master 7777 amplifier set to combined UHF/VHF with the FM trap set to permit FM radio reception.


It picks up everything else extremely well, (ex. WCBS and WNJU are coming in at 100% 24/7.) FM reception is superb. I'm having no trouble with the three VHF stations. I get WRNN and WTBY off the "back of the antenna" just fine. They pound in over here, in fact.

Here is my TVFOOL information. 


I'm wondering:
Is there anyone else in the Hudson Valley having similar issues?

Why am I having these difficulties *in the daytime*?


I know that WNYW and WWOR use a different antenna than the others, but still. I would think I wouldn't be having difficulty receiving them in light of the excellent reception I get from the other stations whose antennas are also on Empire.


Any suggestions that might improve my reception of WNYW and WWOR are welcome. Thank you very much for your help!


----------



## NervousCat

New compact VHF-Hi antenna coming out at the end of this month from Antennas Direct:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/C5-Cle...V-antenna.html 


It's not cheap - $119.99


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lost51* /forum/post/16796636
> 
> 
> I don't know if this has been talked about before, so forgive me if it has.
> 
> 
> What is the business reason for the 7, 11 and 13 channels to go back to VHF? Surely they would have known people will have problems. Their market share will go down because no one can see their shows along with the paid commercials. I can just Hulu most of their shows and bypass everything else because I can't get good reception.



One motivation for going to VHF is to save power bill. Right now ABC is transmitting at 11kw (I think).. whereas they used to transmit at 250kw (guessing) when they were in UHF. The reason VHF needs lower power is that VHF analog used to reach longer distance with lower power compared to UHF. And VHF is percieved to have better propgation characteristics in mountain/hilly area. But digital hi-VHF appears to be a total different ball game than analog hi-VHF. Also one reason they moved to analog VHF is because FCC mandated them to move to make rooms available for spectrum sale to Verizon/At&T. Also VHF powers are kept low so that adjacent market channels shouldn't interfere with each other on the same channel or adjacent channels.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lost51* /forum/post/16796636
> 
> 
> I don't know if this has been talked about before, so forgive me if it has.
> 
> 
> What is the business reason for the 7, 11 and 13 channels to go back to VHF? Surely they would have known people will have problems. Their market share will go down because no one can see their shows along with the paid commercials. I can just Hulu most of their shows and bypass everything else because I can't get good reception.



To save money on electricity. VHF stations generally broadcast with lower power compared to UHF stations to achieve the same or similar coverage. There is also the assumption that ATSC digital broadcasting can be 10 times more efficient than NTSC analog, which is why you see these really low VHF effective radiated power levels for digital broadcasts. I can't help but think of that episode of The Odd Couple where Tony Randall writes "ASSUME" on the blackboard as says: "Never ASSSUME! Why? Because you make an ASS out of U and ME!"


----------



## LenL

I know there are probably some folks who need a hi VHF antenna but I think most of us need an antenna that gets hi VHF well and UHF. Last time I checked we have stations broadcasting on hi VHF and UHF. How many of us want to have 2 antennas to mess around with?


This is an antenna that does not make sense but for a few.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16798049
> 
> 
> I know there are probably some folks who need a hi VHF antenna but I think most of us need an antenna that gets hi VHF well and UHF. Last time I checked we have stations broadcasting on hi VHF and UHF. How many of us want to have 2 antennas to mess around with?
> 
> 
> This is an antenna that does not make sense but for a few.



It makes perfect sense for anyone who already owns a good UHF antenna but now needs a high-VHF antenna and doesn't want a 5'-10' long boom antenna on their house.


It also makes a fair UHF antenna although it isn't presented as such.


The single-unit alternative for medium-long range U-V reception would be something like a WD-7695 or so. Last time I checked, those were pretty big.


I guess the 5 and 10 element VHF-Yagis from other companies don't make any sense, either, based on your statement. Perhaps everyone should quit making high-VHF antennas and stations should quit using those channels... Yeah, that will fix everything!


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/16786555
> 
> 
> I been having issues with 25-2 for a few days.. I just got back from N.C. on Sunday and WNYE has been acting funny since then.



Well, I'm begining to recieve it, again (and I didn't even touch my antenna).



Danny


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daniel Perales* /forum/post/16798408
> 
> 
> Well, I'm begining to recieve it, again (and I didn't even touch my antenna).
> 
> 
> 
> Danny



I will try again I had to remove my UHF antenna to install a window AC.


----------



## LenL

So you think there is a market out there that wants to spend $120 to add a second antenna to get 3 stations? I suppose some people have the bucks and interest.


----------



## NervousCat

I expect some places online (like Solid Signal) to sell it for less than $120. Google shopping search found the lowest price at $83 so far.

http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.p...er=20204600053 


You can still get a Winegard YA 1713 for less than $40, if you have room for a VHF Yagi.


----------



## R.F. Burns

Any word on what date and time the WCBS nightlight service end?


----------



## SnellKrell

It was scheduled for 7/12 - one month of nightlight.


----------



## poly_poly-man

~40 miles south of NYC, with a cm4228 pointed to the north (a bit off, but high enough).


Channel-by-channel:


WCBS is now the strongest channel here - except right after Craig Ferguson's monologues every night... then it weakens down to nearly nothing.


WNBC is very strong, no issues


WNYW - used to be the strongest channel (pre-transition), now is among the weakest - drops below the magical 40% mark quite often.


WABC - seems strong enough, even without a real vhf antenna. Not really strong, but consistently strong enough (can't comment about night)


WWOR - same as WNYW - it seems when 5 is dropping out, 9 is strong, and vv.


WPIX - absolutely 0 signal recently...


WNET - fine during the day, haven't tried at night.


anything else - seems fine, 'cept ION of course...


----------



## dagger666

Tonight i can get 13 with a reading of 22 but channel 7 & 11 can't be found. OK the test is over and it's time to go back to UHF. Nothing you try is going to fix this so screw VHF already.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16801760
> 
> 
> It was scheduled for 7/12 - one month of nightlight.



That I knew but what time of day is the shut down. I want to record it.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16801640
> 
> 
> Any word on what date and time the WCBS nightlight service end?



If you knew the date, why did you ask for it?


Thank you!


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16806556
> 
> 
> If you knew the date, why did you ask for it?
> 
> 
> Thank you!



Forgive me for being human. Do you know what time the shut down will occur?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16806541
> 
> 
> That I knew but what time of day is the shut down. I want to record it.



Why, do you think its going to be a repeat when WCBS did an official sign-off on 6/12?

That was a classic,with the national anthem, the old B&W test signal pattern, and all. I was fortunate to be watching that at work when it occured.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16801640
> 
> 
> Any word on what date and time the WCBS nightlight service end?



What is WCBS nightlight?


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16806991
> 
> 
> Why, do you think its going to be a repeat when WCBS did an official sign-off on 6/12?
> 
> That was a classic,with the national anthem, the old B&W test signal pattern, and all. I was fortunate to be watching that at work when it occured.



It really doesn't matter. I'm not interested in ceremony. I want to record the final high power analog television transmitter shutting down. I also have recorded WWOR & WPIX shutting down as well as WABC and WNBC.


----------



## SnellKrell

Chacun a son gout!


----------



## AloEuro

Some of you may have noticed that ch.47(telemundo) automathically transferred to

36-3, thus the 47-1 de facto does not exist.

However, do not get confused with 47-3 I think that is really 55-1, similarly 43-1 seems to be NJpbs 52-1,2(mostly kids stuff)3Audio only.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16795149
> 
> *Users of amplified indoor antennas:*
> 
> It has come to my attention that some well-known models act as their own transmitters as long as they are ON even if not connected to the DTV set and this have caused some channel blocking. This previously unknown consequence of the amp is in addition to the nonlinear distortion generated by the amp.
> 
> Unfortunately, these device do not have bypass switch into passive mode...



When I was reading it thoughts came to me about "Terminator" movie series when the machines under electric AC by itself went berserk, maybe you shoul tell us which models do it, on the other hand perhaps not, what if some student not ready for exams took it to class and brought havoc to some of the electronic devices surely they use, ha,ha,ha.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16807932
> 
> 
> It really doesn't matter. I'm not interested in ceremony. I want to record the final high power analog television transmitter shutting down. I also have recorded WWOR & WPIX shutting down as well as WABC and WNBC.



wcbs 6/12 signoff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6twv_...om=PL&index=75 



wcbs nightlite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3X6W...eature=related


----------



## seamus21514

I noticed WNYE was airing a simulcast of 25-1 on 25-2 on my TV...it could have been a mess-up on my end, but it's certaintly strange. They should put France 24 on one of the subchannels.


----------



## TSS_Killer

I know this is not exactly going to be on topic, but has anyone noticed that some of the old analog UHF channels have been transformed into a "worse-than-cable-access" network with very low budget programming? I just did some investigation and I probably saw the worst program in broadcast tv history...what's even worse is their ident. It's a guy holding up a camera to a white art card with 4 former callsigns on it written in marker. It's really bad.


----------



## seamus21514

It could be a pirate broadcast...what channel number?


----------



## TSS_Killer

Check channels 25 and 34 on analog...there are two more, but I can't remember them right now.


----------



## seamus21514

Not getting anything here in Staten Island, it must be unlicensed and low power.


----------



## Trip in VA

It'd be one thing if channels 26 (WNXY-LP), 32 (WXNY-LP), and 35 (WNYX-LP) were showing it. Those are LPTV analog stations that are all owned by the same group.


34 should be WPXO-LD, a digital. 25 was (is?) WNYE's nightlight, and will eventually be WASA-LD, also a digital.


If there's anything else, it's probably a pirate. What call signs does it show?


- Trip


----------



## TSS_Killer

Confirmed: According to this guy's twitter account, he broadcasts on Channels 6, 26, 32, and 35.


Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrYUS3E1sTo


----------



## mikepier

Are there any stations that broadcast in 480i widescreen? I see a lot of programming on WLIW21 and other channels and subchannels that are letterboxed 4:3, and was just curious if they can't do HD,why not at least broadcast in a 480i 16:9 format. Is it technically possible? I know FOX used to do it years ago.


----------



## dagger666

Funny but the only time i was able to pick up channel 11 was during the Mets game which makes me wonder of the Mets are paying 11 to boost the power during their games.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TSS_Killer* /forum/post/16809770
> 
> 
> Confirmed: According to this guy's twitter account, he broadcasts on Channels 6, 26, 32, and 35.
> 
> 
> Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrYUS3E1sTo


----------



## TSS_Killer

By the quality of programming on those channels, it might as well be a Pirate TV station. But anyway...shows what I know.


----------



## jpru34

I believe channels 2 and 4 cut their power at 12:15 am this morning. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## reddice

I been gone for a week. I can get channel 11 yesterday. It is weak in the low 50's to high 40's but it is working. Channel 36 I could not get anything yesterday. Are they at low power. I have not tried it today. I will let you know later.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16809990
> 
> 
> Are there any stations that broadcast in 480i widescreen? I see a lot of programming on WLIW21 and other channels and subchannels that are letterboxed 4:3, and was just curious if they can't do HD,why not at least broadcast in a 480i 16:9 format. Is it technically possible? I know FOX used to do it years ago.



I believe 4.2 WNBC nonstop does.


----------



## SnellKrell

I don't know specifically about early this morning, but a tremendous amount of work is and will be done on the ESB.


There's a lot of now unused hardware (antennas) on the masts and the building that have to be removed.


Once things have been cleared out, some stations will be moving to better real estate locations on the ESB to improve their signals.


For example, WWOR (38) has filed with the Commission its plan to move further up on the antenna mast - 1440' - near the top - and the current estimate to have everything completed is - First Quarter 2011!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16811558
> 
> 
> I believe 4.2 WNBC nonstop does.



No, they broadcast in 480i 4:3, with most of their shows letterboxed.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16811585
> 
> 
> For example, WWOR (38) has filed with the Commission its plan to move further up on the antenna mast - 1440' - near the top - and the current estimate to have everything completed is - First Quarter 2011!



how higher on the mast are they moving? will that be 10, 20, 30 feet higher than current spot? you know what? we are STILL living the DTV transition...


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16812075
> 
> 
> how higher on the mast are they moving? will that be 10, 20, 30 feet higher than current spot? you know what? we are STILL living the DTV transition...



It will be 138' higher than the current antenna.


----------



## Mr.H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16809990
> 
> 
> Are there any stations that broadcast in 480i widescreen? ...



Here in New Hampshire "NHPTV explore" (11-3) is 480i 16:9, so yes it is technically possible. Many years ago the Boston FOX station was broadcasting 480p, can't remember now if it was 4:3, or 16:9, but the PQ was vastly better than 480i.


----------



## SubaruB4

I guess you guys know now that someone uploaded the WCBS signoff on youtube


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/16811543
> 
> 
> I believe channels 2 and 4 cut their power at 12:15 am this morning. Can anyone confirm?



I don't think 4 was still running WCBS should of been the last station to finally sign off with the nightlight.


----------



## SnellKrell

I think we're confusing digital with analogue!


Nightlight only pertains to a station's analogue signal, and yes, WCBS is the last nightlight station to sign-off.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16809608
> 
> 
> 34 should be WPXO-LD, a digital. 25 was (is?) WNYE's nightlight, and will eventually be WASA-LD, also a digital.
> 
> 
> If there's anything else, it's probably a pirate. What call signs does it show?
> 
> 
> - Trip



WASA is in Port Jervis, NY which is more than 50 miles from NYC (it's actually up where I live).


WASA can do digital on ch 25 if it wanted to right now (barring any FCC action of course) with no ill effects, as W36AZ does on ch 36 (co ch with WNJU-DT).


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/16814075
> 
> 
> WASA is in Port Jervis, NY which is more than 50 miles from NYC (it's actually up where I live).



Future WASA-LD: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1306175.html 


- Trip


----------



## n2ubp

I'm receiving analog on 60 and 64 in Middletown, NY. Seems to be home shopping network.


----------



## reddice

I thought everything above channel 51 had to be vacated then why is those analogs still on?


----------



## speedlaw

Interesting. This morning OTA CBS 2.1 is about twice signal strength since transition.










Other stations remain as/was for signal.


Now, if they'd only fix the TV Guide Onscreen part of the signal !


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16816952
> 
> 
> I thought everything above channel 51 had to be vacated then why is those analogs still on?



They have different rules. Only the full-powered stations were affected by the just-concluded transition.


----------



## Eadwig




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/16817131
> 
> 
> Interesting. This morning OTA CBS 2.1 is about twice signal strength since transition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other stations remain as/was for signal.



I had the opposite happen this morning. I couldn't get 2.1, which is usually my strongest signal, but I was able to get WNJU 36.3 and WMBC(rf18). According to my TVFool results 36.3 should be one of my strongest signals, but I only get it occasionally and I have never gotten WMBC at all before.


By this afternoon WCBS was back to normal and WNJU and WMBC are gone again.



Michael


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/16817131
> 
> 
> Interesting. This morning OTA CBS 2.1 is about twice signal strength since transition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other stations remain as/was for signal.
> 
> 
> Now, if they'd only fix the TV Guide Onscreen part of the signal !



I believe what you're experiencing are the wanings and waxings of digital reception.


Channel 33 from the ESB has not increased its power.


What WCBS has done, on 7/1, the station applied to the FCC for a construction permit to allow it to install a translator station on Channel 22 located on WLIW's tower in Plainview, Long Island.


This directional, 11.5kW facility is to aid reception on Long Island and southern Connecticut. The contour for the translator's coverage in Connecticut has its signal covering Port Chester (NY) to the west -

Westport to the east - and Stamford to the north.


I haven't seen anything mentioning the Commission's approval and WCBS lighting up this new translator.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/16817407
> 
> 
> They have different rules. Only the full-powered stations were affected by the just-concluded transition.



But how are these wireless and emergency services suppose to broadcast if analog stations which are low power are still on there?


----------



## reddice

I am getting channel 36 which is my strongest channel back to normal again. Channel 11 is still very weak.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16817942
> 
> 
> But how are these wireless and emergency companies suppose to broadcast if analog stations which are low power are still on there?



Those companies give those stations a 30 day notice (I think it's 30 days, not sure) to vacate. After the 30 days, the LPTV station must be off that channel.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

Is anyone seeing WNYX-LD 35 on the air? They filed paperwork with the FCC indicating it should be on the air digitally...


- Trip


----------



## 2VW

For anyone showing Telemundo on 36-3 it's time for another re-scan


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16820542
> 
> 
> Is anyone seeing WNYX-LD 35 on the air? They filed paperwork with the FCC indicating it should be on the air digitally...
> 
> 
> - Trip




Receiving the station only on 35 Analolgue.


35 Digital doesn't register at all on my SNR meter.


----------



## reddice

Telemundo virtual channel is back on 47.1. I wish they would make up there mind. I am tired of doing rescans.


----------



## R.F. Burns

Has WABC raised their power? They are far and away the strongest VHF High station with a signal that's about as strong as the all NY UHF stations other than WCBS which is the strongest of all stations at my location, which is 25 miles north of Manhattan. WCBS is 10 bars out of 10. Most other full power NYC stations are 9 bars out of 10. WABC fluctuates between 9 & 10 bars. The TV is a Samsung.


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16822620
> 
> 
> Telemundo virtual channel is back on 47.1. I wish they would make up there mind. I am tired of doing rescans.



That's the only channel that I can't recieve.











Danny


----------



## reddice

Channel 47 is so strong where I am I can peak it at 97%. It is the strongest channel yet I don't understand why so many of you can't get it. At least it is in HD so it is not a complete waste. Just wish I can get all of the local stations as strong as channel 47.


----------



## nordloewelabs

at which resolution is Channel 7.2 Live Well being aired? 720p or 1080i?


----------



## SnellKrell

720p - for all ABC owned television properties.


----------



## the-sloth

I live in Chelsea on the 6th floor of a 6th floor walkup. I have a DB2 mounted on the roof with direct line of sight at ESB. Prior to the transition I could pull in 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25 and 33 all pegged at 100%. After the transition I'm having major issues with 11 & 13. 13 is getting absolutely nothing. 11 is acting really odd.... it's really spotty and makes lots of drastic jumps in signal strength. I'm using a DirecTV HR20 which has a splitter inside that simulates dual OTA tuners. When I check the signal strengths typically the signal meters for OTA tuner 1 & 2 are the same (since it's just an internal splitter.) But with PIX (11) sometimes it will show one tuner at like 98% and the other at 0%. I thought the problem was a bad splitter that I have in the apartment, but after swapping it out the issue still happened.


I've read that 11 & 7 (possibly 13 too) are sharing a combiner and should give similar signals. If that's true, I just can't figure out why I'm having such a hard time with 11 & 13 but WABC (7) comes in crystal clear and is always pegged at 100% signal strength.


Anyone have any suggestions?


EDIT: I have 2 HR20 units, an H20 and two HDTVs with built in tuners and they all either have weak or erratic signal.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/16831336
> 
> 
> I live in Chelsea on the 6th floor of a 6th floor walkup. I have a DB2 mounted on the roof with direct line of sight at ESB. Prior to the transition I could pull in 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25 and 33 all pegged at 100%. After the transition I'm having major issues with 11 & 13. 13 is getting absolutely nothing. 11 is acting really odd.... it's really spotty and makes lots of drastic jumps in signal strength. I'm using a DirecTV HR20 which has a splitter inside that simulates dual OTA tuners. When I check the signal strengths typically the signal meters for OTA tuner 1 & 2 are the same (since it's just an internal splitter.) But with PIX (11) sometimes it will show one tuner at like 98% and the other at 0%. I thought the problem was a bad splitter that I have in the apartment, but after swapping it out the issue still happened.
> 
> 
> I've read that 11 & 7 (possibly 13 too) are sharing a combiner and should give similar signals. If that's true, I just can't figure out why I'm having such a hard time with 11 & 13 but WABC (7) comes in crystal clear and is always pegged at 100% signal strength.
> 
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?



Your DB2 antenna is cut for channels 14-69.


"Ideal for UHF channels 14-69" - This quote is from the antenna manufacturer's Web site. It's not meant to provide reception for Hi-VHF -

in NY, channels 7, 11 and 13. To properly receive those VHF stations you would either need a new combination VHF/UHF antenna to replace you DB2 or add a Hi-VHF antenna connected to your DB2 with a combiner - not a splitter in reverse.


Yes, 7, 11 and 13 are sharing one Hi-VHF Combiner on the ESB. As has been mentioned many times - just because it's the same location and same antenna, you are dealing with different frequencies and transmission power.


Hope this helps.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/16831336
> 
> 
> I live in Chelsea on the 6th floor of a 6th floor walkup. I have a DB2 mounted on the roof with direct line of sight at ESB. Prior to the transition I could pull in 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25 and 33 all pegged at 100%. After the transition I'm having major issues with 11 & 13. 13 is getting absolutely nothing. 11 is acting really odd.... it's really spotty and makes lots of drastic jumps in signal strength. I'm using a DirecTV HR20 which has a splitter inside that simulates dual OTA tuners. When I check the signal strengths typically the signal meters for OTA tuner 1 & 2 are the same (since it's just an internal splitter.) But with PIX (11) sometimes it will show one tuner at like 98% and the other at 0%. I thought the problem was a bad splitter that I have in the apartment, but after swapping it out the issue still happened.
> 
> 
> I've read that 11 & 7 (possibly 13 too) are sharing a combiner and should give similar signals. If that's true, I just can't figure out why I'm having such a hard time with 11 & 13 but WABC (7) comes in crystal clear and is always pegged at 100% signal strength.
> 
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> 
> EDIT: I have 2 HR20 units, an H20 and two HDTVs with built in tuners and they all behave the same way.



The Clearstream 2 does VHF/UHF the VHF needs to be close under 10 miles away. But the UHF does much farther. When I tried it at my aunt it did both VHF /UHF very well and strong signal. 7 miles away from ESB. So you might want to try it.


----------



## the-sloth

I know the DB2 is a UHF antenna.... but it pulls in WABC (7) perfect. If it can pull in a mid-band VHF....why would it not be able to pull in a higher band VHF channel like PIX and/or WNET?


If I wanted to go with the Clearstream.... could I not go with the C1 since I'm less than a mile from ESB? Are you sure they do VHF? The antennas direct page I found just says that they are "Designed for reception on core UHF DTV (ch 14-51)."


I don't mind to buy an antenna if that's actually the problem.... but if it's just a matter of PIX and WNET broadcasting at super low power temporarily, I don't want to waste money on a new antenna that isn't going to help.


----------



## SnellKrell

You're trying to be logical. Be happy it picks up 7.


I tried the C1 and it's a UHF antenna that "can" pick up Hi-VHF by way of the coax connected to it. It was promptly returned. I fell for the hyperbole. Its abilities are being misrepresented.


I found a post by the the engineer who worked on the Clearstream and he states that they are UHF antennas!


----------



## nordloewelabs

Get a VHF antenna and use a combiner to mix the 2 signals. alternatively, get a VHF+UHF antenna like the CM2016 or something bigger. don't waste your time on the hollow promises of C2 or C1. it takes a miracle to get 7, 11 and 13.


by the way, 11 and 13 will probably remain problematic for months. WNET has no intentions to boost power. WPIX is broke. WABC did file for a power boost.... but you already get it.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16831775
> 
> 
> Get a VHF antenna and use a combiner to mix the 2 signals. alternatively, get a VHF+UHF antenna like the CM2016 or something bigger. don't waste your time on the hollow promises of C2 or C1. it takes a miracle to get 7, 11 and 13.
> 
> 
> by the way, 11 and 13 will probably remain problematic for months. WNET has no intentions to boost power. WPIX is broke. WABC did file for a power boost.... but you already get it.




How about this setup....

My existing DB2 (UHF) + AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 (VHF)


How about this combiner? Antennas Direct EU385-CF


----------



## George Molnar

How about this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/16831995
> 
> 
> How about this:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ



I'm going to order one of these in addition to the Antennas Direct combiner.... so I'll have a spare on hand if it goes bad.


----------



## mikepier

AT 10:00 tonite , I noticed CBS coming in very weak. It's usually a solid signal for me.

Anyone else have issues?


----------



## FrankH3rd

Located in Hillsborough in Central New Jersey, was enjoying a show on WHYY 12.1 at 10:30PM this evening. Signal suddenly drops from normal moderate strength to next to nothing. Did an EZ scan on my Zenith DTT901 converter, and what shows up for first time:


WTNH ch 8.1 (RF 10)

WLIW ch 21.1

WSAH 43.1 (RF 42)

WLNY 55.1 (RF 47)

WFTY 67.1 (RF 23)


These are located in eastern LI and southern CT, some almost 100 miles away. All very strong signals.


But didn't bother to get involved in any of the shows, no idea how long tropo will last.


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## Skyeclad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16832787
> 
> 
> Located in Hillsborough in Central New Jersey, was enjoying a show on WHYY 12.1 at 10:30PM this evening. Signal suddenly drops from normal moderate strength to next to nothing. Did an EZ scan on my Zenith DTT901 converter, and what shows up for first time:
> 
> 
> WTNH ch 8.1 (RF 10)
> 
> WLIW ch 21.1
> 
> WSAH 43.1 (RF 42)
> 
> WLNY 55.1 (RF 47)
> 
> WFTY 67.1 (RF 23)
> 
> 
> These are located in eastern LI and southern CT, some almost 100 miles away. All very strong signals.
> 
> 
> But didn't bother to get involved in any of the shows, no idea how long tropo will last.
> 
> 
> Frank
> 
> WA2ISK



Where can you find current conditions and forecasts for weather systems that interfere with radio signals? I'm experiencing low signal integrity tonight too.


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16832787
> 
> 
> Located in Hillsborough in Central New Jersey, was enjoying a show on WHYY 12.1 at 10:30PM this evening. Signal suddenly drops from normal moderate strength to next to nothing. Did an EZ scan on my Zenith DTT901 converter, and what shows up for first time:
> 
> 
> WTNH ch 8.1 (RF 10)
> 
> WLIW ch 21.1
> 
> WSAH 43.1 (RF 42)
> 
> WLNY 55.1 (RF 47)
> 
> WFTY 67.1 (RF 23)
> 
> 
> These are located in eastern LI and southern CT, some almost 100 miles away. All very strong signals.
> 
> 
> But didn't bother to get involved in any of the shows, no idea how long tropo will last.
> 
> 
> Frank
> 
> WA2ISK



I found an additional weirdity last night - I got very strong signals from hi-VHF here in central Long Island: 13 (8 bars), 11 (6 bars), 10/8, (3 bars), and 7 (7 bars), all with a simple channel 13 folded dipole. However, on all these stations, I got severe breakup - I was watching 13 from 8 PM until I gave up at 11:30. Sometimes it got so bad that the sound was missing 50% of the time. I assume that this is due to the tropospheric conditions, but how can the problems be avoided in the future? I am seriously considering getting Fios, but Verizon won't supply the TV component to my location.


Mike


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/16832743
> 
> 
> AT 10:00 tonite , I noticed CBS coming in very weak. It's usually a solid signal for me.
> 
> Anyone else have issues?



Yes, last night was the worst ever reception. CBS hardly came in. NJB which normally measures 90% was down to about 66%.


Was that due to work on the antennas/transmitters or atmospheric conditions?


----------



## jpg7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skyeclad* /forum/post/16832849
> 
> 
> Where can you find current conditions and forecasts for weather systems that interfere with radio signals? I'm experiencing low signal integrity tonight too.


 http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html 


His map shows a strong duct opening up around 7PM last night. Also explains why WCBS would go down - there's an RF 33 in Connecticut as well.


----------



## dagger666

I can pick up 13 with no problems it seams but 7 and 11 are real trouble. 7 is pixiled like crazy and 11 is hit or miss. Can't these people get their act together and see it would make more sense to move back to UHF.


----------



## LenL

People on this forum have a lot of expertise and can give you good advice but they can't help you and others who post and don't tell us where you are located. Notice how I have indicated where I am at. Others have given me good advice for my reception issues as they can see where in the area I am located.


----------



## LenL

I have looked at these maps and have yet to figure out how meaningful they are.


1. I have yet to figure out what color or lack of color means there will be good reception. Why couldn't it be identified as simply reception quality from 1-10 with 10 being super? I find what this guy has done is not User friendly and very confusing.


2. When someone puts a chart/map together that is supposed to be used for TV reception and about 50% of the map is showing reception in the ocean....well I am really turned off...I mean how many people are 100 miles out in the ocean trying to pick up CBS. I suspect this is for boats with radios? We need something focused on TV reception on land and NJ, NY and Conn.


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MTVhike* /forum/post/16833719
> 
> 
> I found an additional weirdity last night - I got very strong signals from hi-VHF here in central Long Island: 13 (8 bars), 11 (6 bars), 10/8, (3 bars), and 7 (7 bars), all with a simple channel 13 folded dipole. However, on all these stations, I got severe breakup - I was watching 13 from 8 PM until I gave up at 11:30. Sometimes it got so bad that the sound was missing 50% of the time. I assume that this is due to the tropospheric conditions, but how can the problems be avoided in the future? I am seriously considering getting Fios, but Verizon won't supply the TV component to my location.
> 
> 
> Mike



The bad news- nothing the stations can do about tropospheric conditions.

The good news- this is more common in the summer, not the winter.

Solutions- turn off the tv and enjoy the summer evening, or read a book, or pay for cable; & hopefully the cable company isn't getting their signal off the air also.


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16834429
> 
> 
> I have looked at these maps and have yet to figure out how meaningful they are.
> 
> 
> 1. I have yet to figure out what color or lack of color means there will be good reception. Why couldn't it be identified as simply reception quality from 1-10 with 10 being super? I find what this guy has done is not User friendly and very confusing.
> 
> *The index is across the top of the page - Ranging from grey (no chance of tropo) to pink. (extremely good tropo conditions)*
> 
> 
> 2. When someone puts a chart/map together that is supposed to be used for TV reception and about 50% of the map is showing reception in the ocean....well I am really turned off...I mean how many people are 100 miles out in the ocean trying to pick up CBS. *Too funny Len!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect this is for boats with radios? We need something focused on TV reception on land and NJ, NY and Conn.
> *
> 
> I suppose since the maps cover the entire eastern seaboard it had to be that large. (They go pretty far into the west too, maybe to give you an overall picture of the distances that you'll be able to grab.)*


*


BTW, how's the reception? Did you bother to do any experimentation with that old antenna?


And I bet that DVR is a blast!







*


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/16835016
> 
> 
> Solutions- turn off the tv and enjoy the summer evening, or read a book, or pay for cable; & hopefully the cable company isn't getting their signal off the air also.



lots of the programming is also available to watch online... some shows on www.Hulu.com *are* in Hi-Def. PBS also has LOTS of shows (full ep's) on www.PBS.org/video .

*FrankH3rd*'s advice to go outside or read a book is a good one! i cant put a Dish on my window because it faces the courtyard (a communal area) and i have no right to put one on the roof. FiOS is not yet in my area, so i read at night... c'est la vie.


sure as hell i'm not going back to the over-compressed, over-channel'ed and over-priced life of cable subscriber.


----------



## LenL

Thanks for the reply.


Even your explanantion is too technical. Just tell me this. What do the colors or lack of colors mean? Does no color mean we should get super reception? Then moving from the left as the colors move left to right does that mean the worst reception will be the color to the far right? Or is it the exact opposite? You see this is not really explained right and if one goes by the adjectives used then it is very confusing unless you have been given a lesson on tropo.


As to your other points. I am enjoying my DVR PAL and as of yet have not tried to record as I have not needed to. I suppose I should just to see if the device is working or a clunker as some have reported.


I don't see TV GUide with my Guide program so I guess where I am in NJ I only received PSIP.


As to reception I am receiving 2.1, 4.1, 5.1 and 7.1 just fine. These are the channels I like to watch most of the time. Can't get 9.1 , 11.1 and 13.1 except with breakups that make them unviewable. 25.1, 31.1, 50.1 and the Spanish language channels come in OK too.


Oddly as well as 7.1 I can get 58.1 which is also high VHF just fine with a little pixilation with my CM 4228 UHF antenna. So I can get 2 VHF stations 7 and 8 but not 11 and 13. And why I can't get 9.1 is anybody's guess.


I have not noticed any real atmospheric issues from day to day so the trophoshere maps don't seem to be useful for me. If I could undertand the map system used I possibly could check it more often. I think the guy who put this together could have made it easier to interpret so that someone as brain dead as me could follow it.


----------



## akahooper

You're quite welcome.

My understanding of tropospheric reception, or skip, is that the signal bounces between the ground and the atmosphere, or more accurately the ionosphere.


When the ionosphere is lower due to atmospheric conditions and lack of sunlight signals travel further in the horizontal as opposed to bouncing high into the vertical and running out of gas, so to speak, in the atmosphere.


As I said, toward the left (grey) is no chance, and as you go to the right (towards the pink) the chance of tropo increases.


So to equate this to your situation, I would think you would get ch 11, 13 & probably 9 on "better" tropo nights. (When the map is showing colors toward the pink end covering the area between you and the transmitter.) So long as the reason you're not getting them in the first place is due to no LOS & a low power transmission, and not some other anomaly.


On the other hand you could see worse reception if a distant station is being picked up with tropo and creating co-channel interference. Kind of a two edged sword, huh?


The best way to check this out would be to look at your TVFool and see if you can scan and pick up some distant stations way down the list that are in your aim, on good tropo nights. (Without co-channel interference, of course.)


Or I could be completely wrong...


----------



## LenL

So....does this equate to if it is cloudy, humid, rainy etc reception should be better and if the weather is great with no clouds with low humidity the reception should be worse?


Then all I have to do is check the weather, look outside etc?


Anyway I have found that with rain, snow and 100% humidity I have had great reception and on days that there are no clouds and low humidity I have had bad reception....but sometimes vice versa too.


So I am convinced that there are other things coming into play...like how Jupiter lines up with Mars...


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16836441
> 
> 
> So I am convinced that there are other things coming into play...like how Jupiter lines up with Mars... *EXACTLY!*



As I understand it, cloudy conditions with high humidity will carry a signal better/farther. Once it is actually raining/snowing however I would expect it to be refracted/dispersed by the moisture directly in the air, causing the signal to travel less.


But again, I'm no expert here and I really may have it all wrong...


----------



## Trip in VA

E-skip is reflection off the atmosphere. It impacts lower frequencies (usually channels 2-6) and can carry signals 500-1500 miles.


Tropospheric ducting affects the whole band. It is caused by a temperature inversion (layer of warm air trapped under a layer of cooler air) that creates a "duct" which carries signals further than they would normally go. Record distance is 800-ish miles, but the best I've ever done is about 400 miles.


- Trip


----------



## akahooper

And so I stand corrected!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropospheric_ducting


----------



## FrankH3rd

Never saw this before, why is it happening?


WNYE (RF24), normally strong and steady channel, unwatchable video & audio this evening, on both Zenith DTT901 converter and PC Hauppauge HVR950.


Zenith signal strength very strong.

HVR950 using TSReader Lite software; signal locked 97% (26.250dbm), but massive continuity and TEI errors.


Anyone know what this means? Cause?


Located in Hillsborough NJ, 40miles SW of NYC.


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## Trip in VA

FrankH3rd:


I'm curious what stations you're seeing these days on your HVR950 with TSReader. I found a post of yours from before the transition, but I didn't spot one with post-transition reception.


- Trip


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16836021
> 
> 
> As to your other points. I am enjoying my DVR PAL and as of yet have not tried to record as I have not needed to. I suppose I should just to see if the device is working or a clunker as some have reported.
> 
> 
> I don't see TV GUide with my Guide program so I guess where I am in NJ I only received PSIP.
> 
> 
> As to reception I am receiving 2.1, 4.1, 5.1 and 7.1 just fine. These are the channels I like to watch most of the time. Can't get 9.1 , 11.1 and 13.1 except with breakups that make them unviewable. 25.1, 31.1, 50.1 and the Spanish language channels come in OK too.
> 
> 
> Oddly as well as 7.1 I can get 58.1 which is also high VHF just fine with a little pixilation with my CM 4228 UHF antenna. So I can get 2 VHF stations 7 and 8 but not 11 and 13. And why I can't get 9.1 is anybody's guess.
> 
> 
> I have not noticed any real atmospheric issues from day to day so the trophoshere maps don't seem to be useful for me. If I could undertand the map system used I possibly could check it more often. I think the guy who put this together could have made it easier to interpret so that someone as brain dead as me could follow it.



LenL,


I'm also seriously debating getting a DVDPal DVR. From what I've read, CBS2 is the NY areas TVGOS station for NY: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos 


What other comments can you make of the unit? Did you buy it from Dish or another source? How long did it take to ship? Is the Pal's tuner better tyhen the one in your TV?


Thanks and sorry to stray off topic this post.


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16838833
> 
> 
> FrankH3rd:
> 
> 
> I'm curious what stations you're seeing these days on your HVR950 with TSReader. I found a post of yours from before the transition, but I didn't spot one with post-transition reception.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip


The HVR950 is connected to PC on first floor of my house, connected to one of two suburban antennas in attic; antenna is split to HVR, Magnavox TB100MN9 and Zenith DTT901. They all reliably receive the following channels;


NYC- 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25, 31, 58 (NJN), 63 (Signal locked typically upper 70's to lower 90's for UHF, 95 to 100 for VHF)

Philly- 3, 6, 12 (signal locked upper 90's to 100 for CH6, 60's & 70's for Ch 12; 60's & 70's for Ch 3 RF26)


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## LenL

As you probably know there is an AVS forum devoted to this DVR with tons of info.


For the sake of not getting too involved with DVR off topic comments let me simply say I got mine from Solid Signal for $245 plus another $9 or so for slow ground shipping. It arrived in about 5 days. I am happy with it.


I think it does a better job than my Sharp 45" LCD TV holding the OTA signals. I like the features that I did not have with my TV such as a program guide and the ability to record HD. As I have stated before I have not tried to record yet. I just don't see anything on TV these days to record. Check out the forum and you will see a lot of people with issues that vary from minor to serious and people who are happy with the unit.


Although CBS has the TVGOS data I have not picked it up and only see PSIP in the guide. It may be I need to do something in the setup to get TVGOS. Something for me to look into when I have some time.


----------



## n2ubp

zip: 10940 , Middletown, NY, Orange County


antennas, 91-XG UHF and Winegard YA-1713 VHF high.

RG6 coax, CM7777 preamp, CM rotor, CM 8 port distribution amp.

DirectTV H20 DBS and OTA receiver and CM coupon converter box.

Todays results - I can receive every ESB sourced channel, VHF high or UHF, in the high 70 to 80 percent range (as shown on the H20) except for WABC 7, 7 is not even a blip on the radar. What am I or 7 doing wrong.


----------



## SnellKrell

I don't know if you're doing anything wrong but Channel 7 is - the power is too low.


The station has requested a [power increase, which I'm told on good authority - if and when its approved - is really not the amount needed and will help some but not enough viewers with problems.


Complain to WABC and the FCC.


The more noise we make complaining the better chance we have a something substantive being done.


----------



## reddice

The thing is WABC is my strongest VHF channel. WNET is not that strong and WPIX is very weak which is the station I have the most trouble with.


----------



## NYC10033

Since 6/12 I've noticed that WNET channel 13-1 takes the longest of any station for my Zenith 901 box to lock on to - about 5 seconds - other stations lock in within one second.


Anyone with similar observations?


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/16839859
> 
> 
> LenL,
> 
> 
> I'm also seriously debating getting a DVDPal DVR. From what I've read, CBS2 is the NY areas TVGOS station for NY: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos
> 
> 
> What other comments can you make of the unit? Did you buy it from Dish or another source? How long did it take to ship? Is the Pal's tuner better tyhen the one in your TV?
> 
> 
> Thanks and sorry to stray off topic this post.



Lttle OT: I know DTVPal DVR gives you that standalone feeling. and is much more compact. However, for the same price you can build a low power dual core AMD based (with 780G on board video) HTPC within $300. Apart from OTA recording with much better guide data than TVGOS.. HTPC gives you lot of flexibility. In fact you can use the Hulu app/Zinc/boxee and numerous other media aggregators and use your remote to control all these applications from your coutch. Its much much powerful in terms of feature. The power usage by the HTPC when its asleep is approx 10W. When its awake.. the power usage is typically 100W. Head over to the HTPC forum to get ideas on the latest build suggestions. As for me.. I am using AMD BE2400 with a Gigabyte GA-MA78S2H motherboard and a Avermedia low profile OTA TV tuner card (which also have QAM support.. but I don't have cable). I am using

Windows Vista Premium as my OS.

Rough price for different components:

Mobo + CPU = $120

Memory = $20

DVD-RW drive = $25

PCI-X ATSC/QAM HDTV Tuner (whitebox) = $35

Hard Disk = $60

HTPC Case = $50

Media Center Remote = $20


Total = $325 (assuming you already have a license for Vista or want to use Linux)


You can also download Windows 7 RC for free and use it till Jun 2010.. and it comes with all the features for Media center.


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16843188
> 
> 
> Since 6/12 I've noticed that WNET channel 13-1 takes the longest of any station for my Zenith 901 box to lock on to - about 5 seconds - other stations lock in within one second.
> 
> 
> Anyone with similar observations?



My observation exactly on my Zenith DTT901 converter, but maybe three seconds not five. But only for 13.1; 13.2 and 13.3 lock in as quick as any other channel. WNET signal is very strong here, so it can't be signal strength that is the cause of the delay


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## n2ubp

Update: I can receive WABC 7 with a 50+ signal on my H20 DirecTV receiver if I point the rotor SSW, towards Sussex NJ, rather than SSE, towards the Empire State Building. I do loose all other ESB channels except 7 when I point the rotor SSW. Weird.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/16841166
> 
> 
> zip: 10940 , Middletown, NY, Orange County
> 
> 
> antennas, 91-XG UHF and Winegard YA-1713 VHF high.
> 
> RG6 coax, CM7777 preamp, CM rotor, CM 8 port distribution amp.
> 
> DirectTV H20 DBS and OTA receiver and CM coupon converter box.
> 
> Todays results - I can receive every ESB sourced channel, VHF high or UHF, in the high 70 to 80 percent range (as shown on the H20) except for WABC 7, 7 is not even a blip on the radar. What am I or 7 doing wrong.


----------



## n2ubp

At noon today I can not receive WABC 7 no matter what I do. Think I will get a life and go out today, no rain, clear skies. As said before WABC 7 has issues they have to correct to retain OTA market share.


Steve

N2UBP



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/16845897
> 
> 
> Update: I can receive WABC 7 with a 50+ signal on my H20 DirecTV receiver if I point the rotor SSW, towards Sussex NJ, rather than SSE, towards the Empire State Building. I do loose all other ESB channels except 7 when I point the rotor SSW. Weird.


----------



## dagger666

I can now get 11 since i turned my monoprice antenna directly north and keep it the same spot i had it on the wall, not the strongest single but can watch. 7 is still a no go which is strange since 7,11,13 all come from the same place. 5 still remains the strongest station with a reading of over 70+ but since every TV measures the single strength differently does these numbers really matter to anyone else.


----------



## SnellKrell

Earlier this morning was the worst reception I've had for 7 since the transition.


It's almost 9 a.m. and the signal is a bit better than earlier - but 7 remains a big problem.


Let's hope the power boost will help some of us - whenever the Commission gives the OK!


----------



## LenL

I had this lying around and tried it in indoors on my second floor with a CM 7777 preamp by a window and I could only get 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1 in the low 60's and upper 50's.


So yesterday I put is outside on the ground and checked the signals. For the major NY stations here is the signal strength:


2.1 81-86

4.1 69-80

5.1 67-71

9.1 63-68


Keep in mind this is bascially on the ground way below my CM 4228 antenna and the reception is as good if not better for the UHF stations. I am waiting on an antenna mast to mount it about 30 feet up and see what happens with the signals


I can't get 7.1, 11.1, 13.1 or 58.1 as this is a true UHF antenna. But oddly I can get analog 60 and 64 with a lot of static.


----------



## nordloewelabs

try moving it farther away from the desktop and laptop, then rotate it a little. you might be able to get 13.1. computers seem to interfere with VHF stations. in my home, they certainly do!


----------



## reddice

Yesterday channel 11 is back to a black screen no signal two red bars. I can only get it in the 20's. Pathetic since you can't get there analog station no more and most people who rely on digital only reception ain't going be able to watch it.


----------



## nordloewelabs

I just canceled my order for a CM2016 . I think its multi-directionality on Hi-VHF would not solve the multi-path problems many of us have with *7, 11 and 13*. worse yet, its gain is too low on this band (between 0 and 2dB). the CM2016 looks like a fine small UHF antenna though.


I've narrowed my choices to 3 antennas. they are all for outdoor use but i'll place them in my *living room* mounted to a tripod. one of them is VHF-only, but since UHF is so forgiving in my area (10 miles north of ESB), I might do ok with a VHF-only antenna. so what you guys think of those beasts? my objective is to filter *multi-path*, which I'm guessing is the major problem with Hi-VHF channels. which of these should be more directional?

RCA ANT751 (cant find specs anywhere)
AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 (*VHF-only*, gain 6.9 dB on VHF)
AntennaCraft HBU22 (gain 4.1 dB on VHF)


----------



## reddice

I am tired of trying different indoor antennas. I tried a bunch and the reception is about the same. Stations I can't get I still can't get no matter what indoor antenna I have used. I use to use the RadioShack UFO but it stunk. It has more multipath problems. I used the Terk HDTVi which is a great antenna but still could not get channel 11. I am now using the Terk HDTVa but reception wise it is exactly the same at the HDTVi. Still can't get channel 11 reliable and the amplifier does absolutly nothing in improving the weak stations. I know a outdoor antenna would be good but I can't put one in. I also should not need one since I am so close to the ESB only 4 miles that I have trouble with certain stations. Now that they are all digital certain stations like channel 11 are worse than the pre-transition. I am glad I can get channel 13 but some days and times it can be weak.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16850728
> 
> 
> I had this lying around and tried it in indoors on my second floor with a CM 7777 preamp by a window and I could only get 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1 in the low 60's and upper 50's.
> 
> 
> So yesterday I put is outside on the ground and checked the signals. For the major NY stations here is the signal strength:
> 
> 
> 2.1 81-86
> 
> 4.1 69-80
> 
> 5.1 67-71
> 
> 9.1 63-68
> 
> 
> Keep in mind this is bascially on the ground way below my CM 4228 antenna and the reception is as good if not better for the UHF stations. I am waiting on an antenna mast to mount it about 30 feet up and see what happens with the signals
> 
> 
> I can't get 7.1, 11.1, 13.1 or 58.1 as this is a true UHF antenna. But oddly I can get analog 60 and 64 with a lot of static.



You may be picking up signal thru ground reflections under the trees - something that i assume TVFool doesn't take into account. (Trees, that is.) I'd be surprised if that antenna outperforms the 4228, given roughly the same height and position... am curious to see how it does though. About the only thing I can see it has going for it is the corner reflector, possibly giving it a higher front to back ratio, and a narrower beamwidth. This may make it less susceptible to multipath that I'd guess you're getting with all your trees. (It's a thought given what is said about the 91XG, but who knows.)


I do know that when I tested my homemade G-H on a stake next to my driveway I got some promising results. It was pointing across my front lawn and down my block on a diagonal toward the ESB. The center of the antenna was at 4ft. So with that position I was under the trees, had lawn and then pavement for 200-250 yards, maybe more. But I fear that once I get it up over the roof pointing virtually into an oak on my prop at 75ft I may well see something worse. TVFool shows only about 0.7-1.5dB difference between 4' and 25' AGL, depending on the channel. (WNYW actually show 0.2dB worse at 25ft up.







)


I gotta get my stuff together before it's yet another moth of DISH @ $73... but I want to build an mclapp 4-Bay bowtie to see if that works better also, just have too many things going on right now.


----------



## kickass69

Anyone having trouble getting WNBC in tonight? I get absolutely no signal at all when I've gotten fine pre and post transition up until tonight. (Can't get it after midnight with the maintenance on the ESB as well but that doesn't count)


----------



## reddice

I can get WNBC but it's weak in the lower 50's.


Channel 13 the last couple of days has been stronger. Getting in the high 60's. Channel 11 is weak and breaking up in the 40's. Channel 7 is my most stable VHF channel in the high 60's to low 70's.


----------



## kickass69

Me getting any of the VHF channels out here is zilch in my case. I was able to get WNBC briefly in one spot with just one bar. (Don't know the max bars/signal Samsung HDTVs have since I haven't had a full strength signal on the meter yet.) Did WNBC lower the power or what?


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/16853032
> 
> 
> Me getting any of the VHF channels out here is zilch in my case. I was able to get WNBC briefly in one spot with just one bar. (Don't know the max bars/signal Samsung HDTVs have since I haven't had a full strength signal on the meter yet.) Did WNBC lower the power or what?



You do know WNBC is actually RF ch28 - UHF, yes?

Only WABC 7, CW 11 & WNET 13 are VHF in NYC.


EDIT: I think my buddies Samsung maxed out at like 9 bars.


----------



## kickass69

akahooper: Yes full aware that's on 28. WCBS is on 33, WWOR is on 38, WNYW is on 44. WNJN is on 51 and so on. Was just responding to reddice about 7,11 and 13 as to why I couldn't comment on reception since I wasn't getting them up here.


----------



## LenL

Your homemade antenna looks cool. Awhile back I toyed with the idea but went the path of buying one for my mom (CM4228) and since it worked well for her I got one for my house too.


As soon as the mast arrives we will find out if raising my second antenna makes for better or worse reception. Actually it is not going to be up as high as the CM4228. I'm afraid of heights and that was professionally mounted. This second one will be about 5 to 10' feet lower on the side of the chimeny and not sit above the chimney.


Say where are you located?


----------



## LenL

Turned on the TV today and some new channels showed up! 49.1, 55.1 and 67.1 (along with some subchannels)


What is going on?


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16854454
> 
> 
> Turned on the TV today and some new channels showed up! 49.1, 55.1 and 67.1 (along with some subchannels)
> 
> 
> What is going on?



I'm getting those too here in upper Westchester, but no picture.


Are you getting a picture on any of those channels?


----------



## LenL

Yes picture and sound.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16855635
> 
> 
> Yes picture and sound.



both pic and sound?

arent there logos or PSIP titles?


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16855635
> 
> 
> Yes picture and sound.



OK, then what are they? Have you seen any station IDs? Are they copies of other channels?


Thanks!


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16854454
> 
> 
> Turned on the TV today and some new channels showed up! 49.1, 55.1 and 67.1 (along with some subchannels) What is going on?



49-1 Should be WEDW (PBS) (Transmitting on 49 from Bridgeport, CT)

55-1 Should be WLNY (Ind.) (Transmitting on 47 from Riverhead, LI)

67-1 Should be WFTY (Telefutura) (Transmitting on 23 from Smithtown, LI).


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16854268
> 
> 
> Your homemade antenna looks cool. Awhile back I toyed with the idea but went the path of buying one for my mom (CM4228) and since it worked well for her I got one for my house too.
> 
> 
> As soon as the mast arrives we will find out if raising my second antenna makes for better or worse reception. Actually it is not going to be up as high as the CM4228. I'm afraid of heights and that was professionally mounted. This second one will be about 5 to 10' feet lower on the side of the chimeny and not sit above the chimney.
> 
> 
> Say where are you located?



Thanks Len. Ideally the reflector should be split, with a space down the middle. But I just threw it together with what I had lying around to do some testing. The G-H really won't work for me as a final install though - it's got 11-16dB *negative* gain down in hi-VHF. That's why I want to try an mclapp 4-Bay bowtie, at least that's got *some* positive gain in hi-VHF. I'm out in Shirley, LI so deep down I think I'm just kidding myself - I'll probably end up needing a 91-XG and a second VHF antenna.







But I figure it can't hurt to try...


Did you play with your TVFool, as far as height goes? It may not make much of a difference at all, especially since you're coming off the side of the house and you're not dealing with any roof reflections.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16854454
> 
> 
> Turned on the TV today and some new channels showed up! 49.1, 55.1 and 67.1 (along with some subchannels)
> 
> 
> What is going on?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira_l* /forum/post/16854902
> 
> 
> I'm getting those too here in upper Westchester, but no picture.
> 
> 
> Are you getting a picture on any of those channels?



I can't believe you guys in Westchester and NJ are getting WNYW & WFTY - their transmitters are only a few miles north of me if I remember - very impressive!


----------



## LenL

I have not found it very reliable for me. It was showing 11.1 as one of my strongest stations and it is quite the opposite! So I'm not inclined to use it for anything but just some basic stuff.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/16856204
> 
> 
> 49-1 Should be WEDW (PBS) (Transmitting on 49 from Bridgeport, CT)
> 
> 55-1 Should be WLNY (Ind.) (Transmitting on 47 from Riverhead, LI)
> 
> 67-1 Should be WFTY (Telefutura) (Transmitting on 23 from Smithtown, LI).



is this a fluke caused by atmospheric conditions or have those stations boosted transmission power? *

LenL*, can you confirm whether the new stations you've found are the same ones listed above?


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16856246
> 
> 
> I can't believe you guys in Westchester and NJ are getting WNYW & WFTY - their transmitters are only a few miles north of me if I remember - very impressive!



Location, location, location!







I'm not getting a picture, though. I can't get WLIW from here without a rotor. I get WNJB from New Brunswick very well. The New Jersey stations come in really well when pointed at NYC, but CT and LI would require some rotation and a little bit of luck!


WNYW looks bad here during the day with an attic mounted antenna, but pounds in with one mounted higher and outdoors.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16856297
> 
> 
> I have not found it very reliable for me. It was showing 11.1 as one of my strongest stations and it is quite the opposite! So I'm not inclined to use it for anything but just some basic stuff.


*LenL:* I wouldn't be so quick to blame TVFool - as I remember you're aim points you right thru a bunch of trees, you may be getting screwed by multipath. (Which from what I've read the 4228 isn't very good at eliminating.) Does you reception improve on 11 in the winter, after the leaves are gone?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16856352
> 
> _Originally Posted by *johnosolis*
> 
> "49-1 Should be WEDW (PBS) (Transmitting on 49 from Bridgeport, CT)
> 
> 55-1 Should be WLNY (Ind.) (Transmitting on 47 from Riverhead, LI)
> 
> 67-1 Should be WFTY (Telefutura) (Transmitting on 23 from Smithtown, LI)."_
> 
> 
> is this a fluke caused by atmospheric conditions or have those stations boosted transmission power? *
> 
> LenL*, can you confirm whether the new stations you've found are the same ones listed above?



As I recall, WNYW's transmitter isn't actually in Riverhead, and WFTY's isn't in Smithtown - as per antannapoint.com. (And confirmed while doing some testing at a friends house a few miles north of me - by both aim and signal strength.) Could this just be where the offices are located? Not sure about WEDW.


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16856611
> 
> 
> As I recall, WNYW's transmitter isn't actually in Riverhead,



Isn't WNYW Fox Network (Channel 5.1) whose transmitter is located at the Empire State Building?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes it is!


----------



## akahooper

I meant WLNY ch55


I had a brain fart - hey it happens!


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16857524
> 
> 
> I meant WLNY ch55



Not getting that here in Westchester while pointed toward Empire.


Same problem as WLIW, which might be solvable for me with a rotor.


----------



## MTVhike

The transmitter for WFTY ("Smithtown") is in Middle Island and that for WLNY ("Riverhead") in between Ridge and Middle Island. These are both about halfway between Smithtown and Riverhead. WEDW is in Brodgeport, CT. I live in Stony Brook, which is beteween Smithtown and Middle Island, so finding the transmitters was problematic until I used the mapping option in TVFool.


Mike


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MTVhike* /forum/post/16858172
> 
> 
> The transmitter for WFTY ("Smithtown") is in Middle Island and that for WLNY ("Riverhead") in between Ridge and Middle Island. These are both about halfway between Smithtown and Riverhead. WEDW is in Brodgeport, CT. I live in Stony Brook, which is beteween Smithtown and Middle Island, so finding the transmitters was problematic until I used the mapping option in TVFool.
> 
> 
> Mike



That sounds dead-on to me, from the aim we had at my friends. It was freaking him out too, he kept pointing NE and saying but Riverhead's that way!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ira_l* /forum/post/16857719
> 
> 
> Not getting that here in Westchester while pointed toward Empire.
> 
> 
> Same problem as WLIW, which might be solvable for me with a rotor.



Yea, they gotta be what 60, 70... 80 degrees off aim for you?

A rotor would do it, but WLNY 55 isn't worth the effort, for sure. WLIW has some good stuff though. That's Garden City, you sure you can't compromise your aim and pick it up?


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16859245
> 
> 
> Yea, they gotta be what 60, 70... 80 degrees off aim for you?
> 
> A rotor would do it, but WLNY 55 isn't worth the effort, for sure. WLIW has some good stuff though. That's Garden City, you sure you can't compromise your aim and pick it up?



I also have FiOS TV and get both WLIW and WLNY there.


I really like WLIW. I think it's the best PBS station in the area.


I could try pointing toward it, but it would mess up my reception of the three VHF stations (I have a VHF/UHF/FM antenna,) I would surely lose WNJB, etc.


Those of us who are used to cable/satellite/FiOS are so jaded; we expect to get everything available. That's why a rotor would be ultimate.


For now, I'm just working on improving my reception of WNYW.


----------



## jzareski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16854454
> 
> 
> Turned on the TV today and some new channels showed up! 49.1, 55.1 and 67.1 (along with some subchannels)
> 
> 
> What is going on?



CPTV WEDW DT49 Bridgeport (Trumbull), CT. has been in operation since February 18, 2009 at 41 kW ERP. An ERP boost to 91 kW occured on June 13, 2009.


Cool if you get CPTV HD on WEDW DT49-1 & "Create" on WEDW D49-2. There would be a CPTV logo on 49-1 and a "Create" logo on 49-2.


----------



## LenL

Those 3 stations were gone by the afternoon. Somehow my 2 antennas were picking them up and then they were no longer receivable. I wonder what connection if any they have with each other?


----------



## Dave Loudin

This would appear, based on your posts, to be propagation enhanced by tropospheric ducting. Just as the boundary between water and air will bend light waves, the boundary between a hot and a cold air mass will bend (not reflect) electromagnetic waves. So, likely in this case, signal that would have shot straight out to space was bent to follow Earth's surface instead. Your antenna was in a position to catch enough energy to transfer a receivable signal to your set.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16856352
> 
> 
> is this a fluke caused by atmospheric conditions or have those stations boosted transmission power? *
> 
> LenL*, can you confirm whether the new stations you've found are the same ones listed above?



These stations can be received at unusual distances due to tropospheric ducting. I live near Toms River NJ and have been watching several Long Island stations recently. The flamethrower which now occupies R.F. channel 47 has tied the record for the highest signal quality level on my Digitalstream converter.


The ducting forecast chart link has been posted here a number of times. It isn't aimed at consumer type television viewers but still works for those who are interested enough to do a little reading.


The next few days should bring some signal enhancement. As mentioned before, this is a double edged sword as the ducted signals can reduce the SNR of some regular signals in consumer grade receivers.


----------



## the-sloth

So I got an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 to use in combination with my DB2 that has been rock solid for me for years. I have my DB2 tightly tucked on the side of a chimney on the rooftop of my apt building. The Y5-7-13 was much larger than I anticipated and much larger than I likely need since I'm less than a mile from ESB with line of sight. Plus it really was an eyesore and I didn't want to do that to our neighbors. So I took a hacksaw and cut a couple feet off the front part of the boom and reinserted the cap. I tested it by holding it and it still locks onto a great signal so now I just need to get it mounted.


I would really like to keep the install as neat as possible so the landlord doesn't get upset. So in a perfect world I would like to keep the DB2 and the Y5-7-13 on the same 5ft mast. From the research I've done it seems that people recommend anywhere between 3.5ft to 6ft between antennas but it seems that it varies based on the type of antennas you're combining.


I'm already pulling in 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 25, 31, 41 and 68 with the DB2 without any problems... so the goal is to add this Y5-7-13 and the combiner I bought and lock onto 11 & 13 without degrading the signals for what I already receive.


1) Is it likely that I could get away with mounting these two on the same 5ft mast 2-3ft apart?


2) If mounted on the same mast, does it matter which goes on top? If so, which?


3) Any other ideas and/or suggestions? The landlord won't allow me to drill into anything so I'm using a wrap-around style chimney mount for the single 5ft mast that I have my DB2 mounted with. So that's what I currently have to play with.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/16863575
> 
> 
> I would really like to keep the install as neat as possible so the landlord doesn't get upset. So in a perfect world I would like to keep the DB2 and the Y5-7-13 on the same 5ft mast. From the research I've done it seems that people recommend anywhere between 3.5ft to 6ft between antennas but it seems that it varies based on the type of antennas you're combining.
> 
> 
> I'm already pulling in 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 25, 31, 41 and 68 with the DB2 without any problems... so the goal is to add this Y5-7-13 and the combiner I bought and lock onto 11 & 13 without degrading the signals for what I already receive.
> 
> 
> 1) Is it likely that I could get away with mounting these two on the same 5ft mast 2-3ft apart?
> 
> 
> 2) If mounted on the same mast, does it matter which goes on top? If so, which?
> 
> 
> 3) Any other ideas and/or suggestions? The landlord won't allow me to drill into anything so I'm using a wrap-around style chimney mount for the single 5ft mast that I have my DB2 mounted with. So that's what I currently have to play with.



Depending on the combiner you lose 3.5 dB or more from each antenna. That may not be a problem if you have strong signals.

Mechanically, you want the bigger antenna below but minimizing multipath, the usual killer of DTV reception, may dictate the final up/down decision.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16864374
> 
> 
> Depending on the combiner you lose 3.5 dB or more from each antenna. That may not be a problem if you have strong signals.
> 
> Mechanically, you want the bigger antenna below but minimizing multipath, the usual killer of DTV reception, may dictate the final up/down decision.



First off, you should be using a UVSJ signal combiner:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ 

This will take the VHF from one antenna and combine it with the UHF from the other - by filtering, and with very little loss. (Only 0.5dB) Don't use a regular splitter backwards as this will not only incur greater loss but will allow the antennas to interfere with each other from out of band signal reception. (Especially at your distance from the transmitters!)


As to the separation, from what I've read you don't want them closer than 1/2 wavelength of the lower freq antenna. (A full wave is preferred if possible, 1/4 wave can be done but performance may suffer.) So you're looking at ch 7 on the hi-VHF antenna - or 34" apart @ 1/2 wave. Not sure if it makes any difference who's on top. But I would guess the VHF, just to minimize reflections off the roof...


P.S. And you whacked the VHF antenna in half with a hacksaw?


----------



## dagger666

What a difference a few degrees change in antenna position can make. I have turned my monoprice antenna about 15 degrees that the silver bar in the middle points northeast i think away from the city and now i get 21,11,13,7. 11,21 come in between 16-18 on the meter but are mostly stable. 13 comes in at 22 and stable but the problem is still 7. It comes in at the same 16-18 as the other stations but has pixel bars and this morning i could not pick it up at all.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...aead025dbc91b6 

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16866074
> 
> 
> First off, you should be using a UVSJ signal combiner:
> http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ
> 
> This will take the VHF from one antenna and combine it with the UHF from the other - by filtering, and with very little loss. (Only 0.5dB) Don't use a regular splitter backwards as this will not only incur greater loss but will allow the antennas to interfere with each other from out of band signal reception. (Especially at your distance from the transmitters!)
> 
> 
> As to the separation, from what I've read you don't want them closer than 1/2 wavelength of the lower freq antenna. (A full wave is preferred if possible, 1/4 wave can be done but performance may suffer.) So you're looking at ch 7 on the hi-VHF antenna - or 34" apart @ 1/2 wave. Not sure if it makes any difference who's on top. But I would guess the VHF, just to minimize reflections off the roof...
> 
> 
> P.S. And you whacked the VHF antenna in half with a hacksaw?



Yeah, I ordered that Pico combiner and that's what I'm using. I had better luck with the VHF antenna on top. I could only get about 24-28" of distance between the two (from the top of the DB2 reflector to the bottom of the Y5-7-13.) I'm seeing rock solid performance on 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 31, 41 & 68. 13 & 25 are hit or miss. Both of which I had a 100% lock on before the transition. I know 13 has always been a pain for most people and since moving down to VHF it seems worse for most people and honestly I'm ok with not getting that channel.


Is it possible that 25 is spotty because it's a low UHF channel (24) and with the addition of the VHF antenna and the combiner it's getting multipath and/or interference?


Either way I've decided to just suck it up and deal with spotty reception on 13 & 25 because I got a really good lock on 11 (which was what I really needed) and I didn't loose my strong signal that I already had on 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 31, 41 or 68.


Yeah... My wife was laughing at me for taking the hack saw to the Y5-7-13, but if she saw what it looked like from our terrace she would have agreed that it wasn't acceptable. So my thinking was "oh well, it's a $20 antenna and if it doesn't work I'm fine with that because I couldn't stand looking at it up there if I didn't give it a trim." Basically I cut it about 6" in front of the dipole (I believe that's what it's called) that is closest to the mounting point (towards the front of the antenna.)


If it's not raining tonight I'll get up on the roof and take a picture. I'm sure it's not optimal under normal circumstances but given my location, it seems sufficient. Heck, if I understood antennas better I'm sure I could have added some hardware to my DB2 to make it more high-band VHF friendly. I just don't know enough about frequency/wavelengths/bands/etc to go that route.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/16867477
> 
> 
> What a difference a few degrees change in antenna position can make. I have turned my monoprice antenna about 15 degrees [...]



pointing the antenna a few degrees up or down, can also make a big difference. also, moving the antenna up or down on the mast by a few inches could also make a big difference. i have a sweet spot in my apartment that is about 6 inches off my kitchen floor. any higher or lower and i lose ch-13.


----------



## gjvrieze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/16867695
> 
> 
> Yeah, I ordered that Pico combiner and that's what I'm using. I had better luck with the VHF antenna on top. I could only get about 24-28" of distance between the two (from the top of the DB2 reflector to the bottom of the Y5-7-13.) I'm seeing rock solid performance on 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 31, 41 & 68. 13 & 25 are hit or miss. Both of which I had a 100% lock on before the transition. I know 13 has always been a pain for most people and since moving down to VHF it seems worse for most people and honestly I'm ok with not getting that channel.
> 
> 
> Is it possible that 25 is spotty because it's a low UHF channel (24) and with the addition of the VHF antenna and the combiner it's getting multipath and/or interference?
> 
> 
> Either way I've decided to just suck it up and deal with spotty reception on 13 & 25 because I got a really good lock on 11 (which was what I really needed) and I didn't loose my strong signal that I already had on 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 31, 41 or 68.
> 
> 
> Yeah... My wife was laughing at me for taking the hack saw to the Y5-7-13, but if she saw what it looked like from our terrace she would have agreed that it wasn't acceptable. So my thinking was "oh well, it's a $20 antenna and if it doesn't work I'm fine with that because I couldn't stand looking at it up there if I didn't give it a trim." Basically I cut it about 6" in front of the dipole (I believe that's what it's called) that is closest to the mounting point (towards the front of the antenna.)
> 
> 
> If it's not raining tonight I'll get up on the roof and take a picture. I'm sure it's not optimal under normal circumstances but given my location, it seems sufficient. Heck, if I understood antennas better I'm sure I could have added some hardware to my DB2 to make it more high-band VHF friendly. I just don't know enough about frequency/wavelengths/bands/etc to go that route.



As to channel 25, WNYE, it is bit lower power then the rest of the ESB located stations (it is on the mast on the Conde Nast Building) and its' broadcast antenna is a bit lower to the ground then the higher powered stations.


----------



## NYCAntennaHelp

Hey everybody, I'm new to the forum. I was hoping you guys could help my parents find the right antenna (if there is an antenna for them). You guys seem to be the people to ask!


OK, my parents live 21 miles away from WMBC, they want the Korean broadcast. However, they live right next to a 15 story apartment building. I don't think the owner of my parent's building allows them to put up an outdoor antenna! How crazy is that?


Anyway, is there an antenna that will get the job done? It seems like nothing is guaranteed, I mean 21 miles away and a 15 story building blocking it. What do you guys suggest?


Antennaweb gives me the following info:


WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON, NJ 305° Compass Heading

20.8 Miles 18 RF


I tried my Aunt's TERK indoor antenna, I actually got ZERO channels. I had another Samsung antenna (with a power chord) and I got about 10 channels, most of the channels we got were within 10-15 miles of broadcast towers.


Is there any hope to get WMBC? It would allow my parents to save $60 off digital cable because that's really the only channel they want to see in the first place.


Please help! I thank you all in advance!


----------



## nordloewelabs

welcome to the forum! post your folk's TVFool info if possible.


the Terk HDTVa and the RadioShack UFO are among the best indoor antennas. if you got no channel whatsoever with the Terk, you did something wrong. try it again.


since your parents only care about one UHF station, maybe you can buy them the Winegard HD-1080p , or the AntennasDirect DB2 , which are small enough for use indoors. if your folks have a higher tolerance to eye-sore, get a DB4 , instead. note that these antennas are for UHF (RF channels 14 thru 51) so dont expect to receive any of the 3 Hi-VHF channels broadcasting in NYC (ch-7, ch-11 and ch-13) with these antennas....especially indoors!!!


according to the law, your folks can place antennas on a balcony if said balcony faces the street. buildings can, however, prohibit them from going on the roof or placing objects on communal areas like courtyards.


you must vacate one weekend to try and find the "sweet spot" for whichever antenna you buy. get a 25 ft RG6 cable too because you might discover that the "sweet spot" is far from the TV. such sweet spot could be near the floor, near the ceiling, facing a wall or facing the street. one never knows. you will need:


1) patience.

2) diligence.

3) luck.


if your parents decide they do want to receive Hi-VHF channels (7, 11, 13), you'll need MUCH MORE of the 3 aforementioned virtues. you'll also need:


4) a directional VHF+UHF antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCAntennaHelp* /forum/post/16869128
> 
> 
> Hey everybody, I'm new to the forum. I was hoping you guys could help my parents find the right antenna (if there is an antenna for them). You guys seem to be the people to ask!
> 
> 
> OK, my parents live 21 miles away from WMBC, they want the Korean broadcast. However, they live right next to a 15 story apartment building. I don't think the owner of my parent's building allows them to put up an outdoor antenna! How crazy is that?
> 
> 
> Anyway, is there an antenna that will get the job done? It seems like nothing is guaranteed, I mean 21 miles away and a 15 story building blocking it. What do you guys suggest?
> 
> 
> Antennaweb gives me the following info:
> 
> 
> WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON, NJ 305° Compass Heading
> 
> 20.8 Miles 18 RF
> 
> 
> I tried my Aunt's TERK indoor antenna, I actually got ZERO channels. I had another Samsung antenna (with a power chord) and I got about 10 channels, most of the channels we got were within 10-15 miles of broadcast towers.
> 
> 
> Is there any hope to get WMBC? It would allow my parents to save $60 off digital cable because that's really the only channel they want to see in the first place.
> 
> 
> Please help! I thank you all in advance!



WMBC has applied to the FCC to add additional transmitters using the same frequency - Channel 18.


If approved, one would be located near Little Falls, NJ and will have a directional signal - West.


The second would be located on the Conde Nast Building - 4 Times Square and directionally sending its signal - East.


Don't know when the Commission will act on this.


Why don't you call the station and speak to the head engineer.


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16870299
> 
> 
> The second would be located on the Conde Nast Building - 4 Times Square and directionally sending its signal - East.



I hope, it it does get approved, that there is some bleed into Harlem. WMBC and recently, WNJN have been the two signals that vary on a daily basis.


Still no signal from WNJU since the digital transition.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16870299
> 
> 
> WMBC has applied to the FCC to add additional transmitters using the same frequency - Channel 18.



how do you find out this kind of thing? i've been to the FCC website but it's so cryptic. for example, i'd like to know if WSAH has applied for power increase or extra antennas. what would be the procedure? would you be kind enough to explain?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16870431
> 
> 
> how do you find out this kind of thing? i've been to the FCC website but it's so cryptic. for example, i'd like to know if WSAH has applied for power increase or extra antennas. what would be the procedure? would you be kind enough to explain?



Here's the most extraordinary site with everything you ever wanted to know

about television stations.


Have a ball!

http://www.rabbitears.info/index.php


----------



## vlwembuch

I have a rooftop mounted DB4 which does great for local digital stations, all except WLIW.


Here is my tvfool data

Code:


Code:


http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3daeadf9d5a3d62a

Rotating the DB4 to 84 degrees didn't really improve the situation. AntennaWeb recommended a large directional UHF antenna so I bought a RadioShack U-75R and mounted it on a chimney mast at about 47", directly aimed at Plainview LI. I am sure there are a few buildings in the line of sight. A small improvement in signal quality but with plenty of careful fine tuning still unwatchable.


Would I benefit from an amplifier of any sort, or is a more enormous antenna the only way to compensate for the weakness of WLIW's signal?


Thanks if any can offer advice. It's a good channel, worth the trouble if it can be done.


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/16867695
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah... My wife was laughing at me for taking the hack saw to the Y5-7-13, but if she saw what it looked like from our terrace she would have agreed that it wasn't acceptable. So my thinking was "oh well, it's a $20 antenna and if it doesn't work I'm fine with that because I couldn't stand looking at it up there if I didn't give it a trim." Basically I cut it about 6" in front of the dipole (I believe that's what it's called) that is closest to the mounting point (towards the front of the antenna.)
> 
> 
> If it's not raining tonight I'll get up on the roof and take a picture. I'm sure it's not optimal under normal circumstances but given my location, it seems sufficient. Heck, if I understood antennas better I'm sure I could have added some hardware to my DB2 to make it more high-band VHF friendly. I just don't know enough about frequency/wavelengths/bands/etc to go that route.



Here's a quick picture I snapped of the post-hacksaw Y5-7-13.


----------



## reddice

Now I lost channel 11 completely. Getting it in the 20's. I can't believe that it has been over a month since the transition and it is still weak. I though getting it fair the last couple of weeks they were boosting the power but I guess it is back to the black low signal screen.


Channel 13 has been stronger but channel 7 is a bit weaker but at least you can watch them.



> Quote:
> Still no signal from WNJU since the digital transition.



Your joking right. I still can't believe so many of you can't get WNJU. It is so strong where I live. I should be getting all of the real NYC local stations as strong as I get them.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vlwembuch* /forum/post/16870605
> 
> 
> I have a rooftop mounted DB4 which does great for local digital stations, all except WLIW.
> 
> 
> Here is my tvfool data
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3daeadf9d5a3d62a
> 
> Rotating the DB4 to 84 degrees didn't really improve the situation. AntennaWeb recommended a large directional UHF antenna so I bought a RadioShack U-75R and mounted it on a chimney mast at about 47", directly aimed at Plainview LI. I am sure there are a few buildings in the line of sight. A small improvement in signal quality but with plenty of careful fine tuning still unwatchable.
> 
> 
> Would I benefit from an amplifier of any sort, or is a more enormous antenna the only way to compensate for the weakness of WLIW's signal?
> 
> 
> Thanks if any can offer advice. It's a good channel, worth the trouble if it can be done.



The general consensus on the forums is that Radio Shack products are, for the most part, well junk...


You may want to try the 43XG, it probably has more gain than the RS U-75R.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...d=TD-43XG#MORE 
http://www.buy.com/prod/antennas-dir...205520611.html 

I am kind of surprised you couldn't pull it in with the DB8, judging by your TVFool. Do you have any unusual obstructions to deal with? You aren't trying to combing the RS with the DB8 are you?


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-sloth* /forum/post/16867695
> 
> 
> 13 & 25 are hit or miss. Both of which I had a 100% lock on before the transition. I know 13 has always been a pain for most people and since moving down to VHF it seems worse for most people and honestly I'm ok with not getting that channel.
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
> Yeah... My wife was laughing at me for taking the hack saw to the Y5-7-13, but if she saw what it looked like from our terrace she would have agreed that it wasn't acceptable. So my thinking was "oh well, it's a $20 antenna and if it doesn't work I'm fine with that because I couldn't stand looking at it up there if I didn't give it a trim." Basically I cut it about 6" in front of the dipole (I believe that's what it's called) that is closest to the mounting point (towards the front of the antenna.)



You cut off the part of the antenna that was most effective for 13!


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA put me on to some new and interesting information.


Applications have been filed with the Commission to test further DTS (fill-in transmitters using the same frequency at the main facility) in NYC.


Channels 28, 31, 33 and 40 will participate.


The plan is to have two additional transmitters -


The first located on ESB - 100kW - Directional Pattern - Northwest


The second in Brooklyn - on Carlton Avenue off of Atlantic - 10kW - Directional Pattern -almost due South.


Hope this helps.


Unfortunately, when Channel 36 added its DTS transmitter on 4TS,

I totally lost reception!


Go figure!


----------



## the-sloth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Loudin* /forum/post/16873831
> 
> 
> You cut off the part of the antenna that was most effective for 13!



Ha! Really? I did signal strength tests before and after and it didn't make much difference. The signal for WNET wasn't any better prior to my modification.


----------



## vlwembuch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16872055
> 
> 
> The general consensus on the forums is that Radio Shack products are, for the most part, well junk...
> 
> 
> You may want to try the 43XG, it probably has more gain than the RS U-75R.
> 
> 
> I am kind of surprised you couldn't pull it in with the DB8, judging by your TVFool. Do you have any unusual obstructions to deal with? You aren't trying to combing the RS with the DB8 are you?



Thanks akhooper. It's a DB4, not combined, and I was also surprised I couldn't pick up WLIW. My building is 4 stories and most structures around me are 3-5 stories.


With the DB4 signal strength is highly variable - will jump all over the place constantly, no signal quality. With the RS yagi there is more stability, but quality is stuck at around 60%. People in antenna retail must spend half their time now processing RMAs










Given the strength of all my other local signals, can I "isolate" WLIW with a directional and its own tuner? Or should I start over with an even higher-gain multi-directional? Or should I give up...


----------



## akahooper

Yea it's probably a push to hope for WLIW with a DB4. Thing is the NYC's are so strong you're even getting the VHF's thru your DB4, on aim? After looking at your TVFool again here's what I would've tried.


Ideally out the gate, a Winegard HD7694P (VHF/UHF combo) antenna with a Winegard HDP269 amp. (Very resistant to overload.) Aim the antenna at WLIW @ 74deg, then your main stations will be 77deg's off aim. I would think you would have a shot with this combo.


Working with what you've already got, try hooking up just the U-75R with a Radio Shack 15-2505 10dB amp on the WLIW aim and see if this pulls it in. (Easy to pick one up, and easy to return.) You should definitely still be able to see CBS, NBC, FOX, etc with this antenna and aim, so if you're getting nothing then you may well be overloaded and need the better antenna, (7694/43XG) 269 amp, or both. An HDP269 at the antenna would still be best though.


If you get results with the RS U-75R and 2505 you can hook up the DB4 on aim for NYC and combine with an A/B switch from RS. (With a cable from each antenna to the A/B at your TV.) I doubt you'll see any VHF from the U-75R off aim.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16873982
> 
> 
> Applications have been filed with the Commission to test further DTS (fill-in transmitters using the same frequency at the main facility) in NYC.



see? this is the info that i need. i'd like to know how to look for this kind of info myself, but everytime i go to the FCC or RabbitEars websites i feel utterly lost. the data is there, but i dont know where.


could anyone explain to me how to search RabbitEars for:


1) DTS applications (and grants)

2) Power Boost applications (and grants)


this way i could do a weekly check on the NYC stations myself.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16875901
> 
> 
> see? this is the info that i need. i'd like to know how to look for this kind of info myself, but everytime i go to the FCC or RabbitEars websites i feel utterly lost. the data is there, but i dont know where.
> 
> 
> could anyone explain to me how to search RabbitEars for:
> 
> 
> 1) DTS applications (and grants)
> 
> 2) Power Boost applications (and grants)
> 
> 
> this way i could do a weekly check on the NYC stations myself.



I thought I made the site very straight forward.


1. Go here: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=1 

2. Click the call letters of the station you want to see.

3. Click "Technical Data and Screencaps"

4. Read resulting data. (DD is a DTS.)


If 4 poses a problem, chances are that if you hover over the part you're confused about, you'll get a little tip about what it stands for.


- Trip


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCAntennaHelp* /forum/post/16869128
> 
> 
> Hey everybody, I'm new to the forum. I was hoping you guys could help my parents find the right antenna (if there is an antenna for them). You guys seem to be the people to ask!
> 
> 
> OK, my parents live 21 miles away from WMBC, they want the Korean broadcast. However, they live right next to a 15 story apartment building. I don't think the owner of my parent's building allows them to put up an outdoor antenna! How crazy is that?
> 
> 
> Is there any hope to get WMBC? It would allow my parents to save $60 off digital cable because that's really the only channel they want to see in the first place.
> 
> 
> Please help! I thank you all in advance!



WMBC is one of the easy channels to catch. Use an antenna like DB2 or Eagle Aspen UHF antenna to get the channels. DON'T use any amplifiers in between. Of course you need to point towards Newton NJ. Depending on the location your parents live, you may also receive the New York UHF stations because of the wider beamwidth of the antenna. When I am really really bored.. I watch WMBC.. the korean soaps comes withenglish subtitles and they are pretty entertaining.. of course the girls are pretty too. WMBC is pretty easy to lock in.. I think there are 5 sub channels.. of which 3 are korean I think.


----------



## nordloewelabs

thanks for enlightening me, *Trip*. it's A LOT easier to read the data from RabbitEars than from the FCC website! huge difference! i have a few questions:


*----------------------------------------------------------*
*WNBC

----------------------------------------------------------

DT-CP MOD:
* Channel 28  Contour Range 50 Miles

1302' 200.2 kW ND (H) 1295' AGL; 1° Elec Beam Tilt
N 40° 44' 54" (40.748), W 73° 59' 10" (-73.986) ( S )*


DS-APP:*
Channel 28  Contour Range 45 Miles 1023'

200.2 kW ND (E) 1017' AGL; 1° Elec Beam Tilt
N 40° 44' 54" (40.748), W 73° 59' 10" (-73.986) ( S )

*DT-APP:
* Channel 28  Contour Range 53 Miles 1703'

164 kW ND (E) 1726' AGL; 1° Elec Beam Tilt
N 40° 42' 46.4" (40.713), W 74° 0' 48.8" (-74.014) ( S )*


DX-CP:
* Channel 28  Contour Range 42 Miles

732' 290 kW DA (H) 323' AGL; 0.5° Elec Beam Tilt
N 40° 48' 8" (40.802), W 74° 14' 48" (-74.247) ( S )
*----------------------------------------------------------

*the records on the top are the oldest, right? that would mean the *DX-CP* is the last one. do you plan to add dates to the records in the future?


i see there was an application (*DT-APP*) for a transmitter on the coordinates 40.713, -74.014*,* which is in downtown Manhattan. that means WNBC plans a transmitter on the new tower, right?


once permissions are granted, do they appear as "granted" on RabbitEars too? when the stations make the changes effective, are they indicated in any way?


thanks in advance!


----------



## Trip in VA

In some cases. I can't get the whole country because there's just too many, but either the oldest is at the top or the one most likely to be on the air. In this case, it's both, and it's the one on the air.


The DT-APP is a placeholder for Freedom Tower, should that ever get finished.


A granted Application becomes a Construction Permit. DS applications, for whatever reason, used to be listed as DS-STA when granted but that seems to have stopped for some reason and are just DS-APP forever. Blame the FCC database for that one.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

*SnellKrell* mentioned Channels 28, 31, 33 and 40 as participants of the DTS tests, however, checking RabbitEars, i can only see a *DD* record for ch-31. updates coming to the site?


----------



## Trip in VA

Only WPXN and WXTV filed yesterday, but the WXTV paperwork is corrupt. The WPXN paperwork makes reference to the other three.

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/...301&q_num=5570 


- Trip


----------



## vlwembuch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16875851
> 
> 
> Yea it's probably a push to hope for WLIW with a DB4. Thing is the NYC's are so strong you're even getting the VHF's thru your DB4, on aim? After looking at your TVFool again here's what I would've tried.
> 
> 
> Ideally out the gate, a Winegard HD7694P (VHF/UHF combo) antenna with a Winegard HDP269 amp. (Very resistant to overload.) Aim the antenna at WLIW @ 74deg, then your main stations will be 77deg's off aim. I would think you would have a shot with this combo.
> 
> 
> Working with what you've already got, try hooking up just the U-75R with a Radio Shack 15-2505 10dB amp on the WLIW aim and see if this pulls it in. (Easy to pick one up, and easy to return.) You should definitely still be able to see CBS, NBC, FOX, etc with this antenna and aim, so if you're getting nothing then you may well be overloaded and need the better antenna, (7694/43XG) 269 amp, or both. An HDP269 at the antenna would still be best though.
> 
> 
> If you get results with the RS U-75R and 2505 you can hook up the DB4 on aim for NYC and combine with an A/B switch from RS. (With a cable from each antenna to the A/B at your TV.) I doubt you'll see any VHF from the U-75R off aim.



Thanks again for the advice with my next step akahooper! Will give the RS amp a shot first - like you said, easy to pickup and return.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16871264
> 
> 
> Channel 13 has been stronger but channel 7 is a bit weaker but at least you can watch them.



I can get 13 now but channel 7 is lost and it's a major network station. How can 13,7,11 be broadcast from the same location as some have said on here but not all three can be picked up. Lately all the station have had some problems even over 30+ so like i guessed everything isn't sorted out yet. Aren't a few stations building new faculties which aren't going to be finished until the end of the year?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16876513
> 
> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/...301&q_num=5570



very interesting document! it's remarkable that a second transmitter operating at a mere 10kW could make any difference on the UHF band, given that its channels operate at powers on a much greater scale.


please, correct me if i'm wrong, this DTS setup will not benefit me, who live 10 miles north of ESB, right? it seems to me that the extra transmitter is aimed at helping reception in Blooklyn.


i wish WLIW-21 and WLNY-47 setup a DTS site on 4TS. they are both broadcasting from Long Island. the "PBS Wolrd" sub-channel on 21.3 has risen my curiosity. i wouldnt mind the 480i signal a bit!


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16876513
> 
> 
> Only WPXN and WXTV filed yesterday, but the WXTV paperwork is corrupt. The WPXN paperwork makes reference to the other three.
> 
> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/...301&q_num=5570
> 
> 
> - Trip



Read that application and weep. This is another example of NY politicians wasting our tax money through earmarks. This time 30 million to experiment with DTS. Ask yourselves why have WABC, WNYW, WWOR, WNET and WPXN decided to not participate. Perhaps they don't want to waste our tax money.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16877019
> 
> 
> please, correct me if i'm wrong, this DTS setup will not benefit me, who live 10 miles north of ESB, right? it seems to me that the extra transmitter is aimed at helping reception in Blooklyn.



Correct.



> Quote:
> i wish WLIW-21 and WLNY-47 setup a DTS site on 4TS. they are both broadcasting from Long Island. the "PBS Wolrd" sub-channel on 21.3 has risen my curiosity. i wouldnt mind the 480i signal a bit!



WLIW should just move their primary transmitter to Freedom Tower when it's done. There's no engineering reason they couldn't and that signal would likely still cover their current coverage area. I'm a big fan of PBS World as my local PBS station carries it, and last time I was in NJ, I missed being able to watch it.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16877256
> 
> 
> WLIW should just move their primary transmitter to Freedom Tower when it's done.



i prefer to count on a DTS transmitter.... that tower is taking forever. i'm sure it took less time to erect the Great Pyramid of Giza.


----------



## Trip in VA

I don't see the point in spending the money on a DTS if they can just move the main signal to a more centrally-located tower site after waiting a few years. I'm somewhat distrustful of most DTS implementations due to power levels that I consider to be just way too high for this type of setup.


I'd be worried about self-interference. I think WNJU is already suffering from it, though I'm really not certain.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16877320
> 
> 
> I don't see the point in spending the money on a DTS if they can just move the main signal to a more centrally-located tower site after waiting a few years. I'm somewhat distrustful of most DTS implementations due to power levels that I consider to be just way too high for this type of setup.
> 
> 
> I'd be worried about self-interference. I think WNJU is already suffering from it, though I'm really not certain.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I fully agree. DTS should only be used where there's no overlap of signals. Shadowed areas for examples. I also think the Freedom Tower will never happen for broadcasting. It's too expensive


----------



## Trip in VA

Even if Freedom Tower doesn't happen, they could stick it on ESB. Either way, if WLIW is going to be the only place to get Create and World, then it should be available to the larger OTA audience.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16877320
> 
> 
> [...] if they can just move the main signal to a more centrally-located tower site after waiting a few years.



a few years? i doubt that thing will be up before 2020.



> Quote:
> I'm somewhat distrustful of most DTS implementations due to power levels that I consider to be just way too high for this type of setup.



there's a lot of controversy on the efficiency of DTS. i can get WNJU without a problem, but *SnellKrell* seems to have lost it. if my memory serves me well, WNJB-8 will be using DTS from 4TS in October so that means there will be a total of 6 stations employing DTS soon. once all 6 are up and running, we'll know for sure how good or detrimental DTS really is. New Yorkers will be the cobaias.


if not DTS, what else could be done to improve signal reception, in your opinion? it seems that increasing transmission power is a bigger taboo for the FCC....


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16877471
> 
> 
> a few years? i doubt that thing will be up before 2020.



As I said, ESB then. Either way, a DTS is a poor answer for WLIW.



> Quote:
> there's a lot of controversy on the efficiency of DTS. i can get WNJU without a problem, but *SnellKrell* seems to have lost it.



I never used to have a problem receiving WNJU when I visited my relatives in New Jersey. Last month, I couldn't get it to lock.



> Quote:
> if my memory serves me well, WNJB-8 will be using DTS from 4TS in October so that means there will be a total of 6 stations employing DTS soon.



No, they're going to be moving to 4TS. No DTS involved.



> Quote:
> once all 6 are up and running, we'll know for sure how good or detrimental DTS really is. New Yorkers will be the cobaias.



I've seen DTS work well and I've seen it work poorly. I've seen more of the latter than the former.



> Quote:
> if not DTS, what else could be done to improve signal reception, in your opinion? it seems that increasing transmission power is a bigger taboo for the FCC....



DTS would work with reduced power, but the way the FCC has licensed DTS, I'm still not sure it can do what's needed.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

WNJB, Channel 8 will be using 4TS as its main transmission point.


And yes, I've completely lost WNJU since the station fired up the DTS on 4TS.


Interestingly, recently, the station shut down its main West Orange transmission and the station came in loud and clear.


A few years ago, in a test, a DTS transmitter for WNJU on the Bloomberg Building boomed in like mad - I can see the side-mounted antenna from my apartment which is only less than 6 blocks away.


As Trip mentioned a while back it seems as if I'm getting too much signal.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16877602
> 
> 
> As Trip mentioned a while back it seems as if I'm getting too much signal.



wouldnt an attenuator solve the problem?


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16877584
> 
> 
> 
> DTS would work with reduced power, but the way the FCC has licensed DTS, I'm still not sure it can do what's needed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



DTS is the ideal "cherry picking" tool, exactly what the FCC is supposed to prohibit. It allows a station to design one or more on-channel DTS stations to provide a strong signal to a small preferred community while causing interference into a much larger area.


----------



## Trip in VA

It's not too much signal, it's artificial multipath caused by two signals that are too out of sync to decode properly.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16877032
> 
> 
> Read that application and weep. This is another example of NY politicians wasting our tax money through earmarks. This time 30 million to experiment with DTS. Ask yourselves why have WABC, WNYW, WWOR, WNET and WPXN decided to not participate. Perhaps they don't want to waste our tax money.




Well, your anger should be foisted upon both major parties, since the original legislation in the House was bipartisan! Does that mean a pox on both your houses?


The NYC 9/11 Digital Transition Fund was created by Congress to enable New York City area broadcaster to build interim facilities to ensure that the New York Metropolitan area could receive an adequate digital broadcast signal until the Freedom Tower can be completed. Today, it's quite questionable if the majority of broadcasters will ever move to One World Trade Center.


Concerning the amount of money, let's not forget that the auction has raised tens of billions of dollars. Additionally, Congress granted the FCC permission to assess additional fees to help pay for not only the NYC 9/11 program, but

$65 million for low-power stations and translatiors to go digital, help non-commercial stations in their transition, no less the needed funds for first responders' communications.


Your point about why certain stations have chosen not to participate -


First, WPXN is participating and was very involved in the first DTS tests that were conducted August 2-10 and August 22-24, 2007.


You use as examples of lack of interest and not wanting to use the money,

WNYW and WWOR. They did not make any change during the transition - they kept their channel allocations and their positions on the ESB antenna mast.


Next WABC and WNET. Both stations chose to their new VHF channels. True, WNET had to move, channel 61 was out of core. But there wasn't a gun to anyone's head to elect channel 13. If anyone is to blame, it's the station and possibly FCC engineering data, but stations employ their own outside engineering consultants.


This leaves WABC, the bigges offender. WABC had to fight to get digital channel 7 and they're paying the price. The station could very well have stayed on channel 45, but for old time sakes fought for channel 7. This thinking has also taken its toll for ABC's station in Chicago, WLS.


With projected huge costs for building and maintaining a new antenna, a new transmitter and office space at One World Trade Center, I applaud stations trying to find new and economical ways to provide their audience with decent reception - be it DTS or translators.


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16877584
> 
> 
> As I said, ESB then. Either way, a DTS is a poor answer for WLIW.
> 
> 
> I never used to have a problem receiving WNJU when I visited my relatives in New Jersey. Last month, I couldn't get it to lock.
> 
> 
> No, they're going to be moving to 4TS. No DTS involved.
> 
> 
> I've seen DTS work well and I've seen it work poorly. I've seen more of the latter than the former.
> 
> 
> DTS would work with reduced power, but the way the FCC has licensed DTS, I'm still not sure it can do what's needed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Could someone explain again what DTS is, and what are the ramifications of using it? Thanks

Mike


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MTVhike* /forum/post/16877736
> 
> 
> Could someone explain again what DTS is, and what are the ramifications of using it?


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distrib...mission_system


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16877727
> 
> 
> 
> This leaves WABC, the bigges offender. WABC had to fight to get digital channel 7 and they're paying the price. The station could very well have stayed on channel 45, but for old time sakes fought for channel 7. This thinking has also taken its toll for ABC's station in Chicago, WLS.



So if they made a mistake not staying on 45 as you claim, why don't they join the DTS project to improve their service on ch 7? I think you should check with your sources at WABC.


----------



## SnellKrell

I have no idea what makes the Mouse House think the way it does.


I scratched my head when the station fought for digital channel 7!


I can surmise that the station hopes that 27kW will do the trick.


A friend of mine an another stations doesn't think it will mean all that much.


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16877758
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distrib...mission_system



Thanks. I read this article, and don't understand how two signals transmitted from different locations at the same frequency don't have alternating constructive and distructive interference resulting in a very irregular transmission pattern.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MTVhike* /forum/post/16877855
> 
> 
> Thanks. I read this article, and don't understand how two signals transmitted from different locations at the same frequency don't have alternating constructive and distructive interference resulting in a very irregular transmission pattern.



They do have constructive and destructive interference. In theory the equalizer in the Rx would assign one signal, the stronger, as main and the other as multipath or echo to be attenuated. In practice it does not work because all echoes are dynamic and usually change faster than the equalizer's response. Where the two signals have similar amplitudes and are dynamic the equalizer can't tell which is main and which is echo. And so forth and so on...


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16877808
> 
> 
> So if they made a mistake not staying on 45 as you claim, why don't they join the DTS project to improve their service on ch 12?



maybe they have a budget problem. transmitting on ch-7 at 27 kW is likely cheaper than transmitting on ch-45 at 100+ kW. maybe they were cheap and overly-optimistic.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16877904
> 
> 
> maybe they have a budget problem. transmitting on ch-7 at 27 kW is likely cheaper than transmitting on ch-45 at 100+ kW. maybe they were cheap and overly-optimistic.



My point was--if DTS works, why don't they do DTS on ch 7, not 45.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/16877919
> 
> 
> My point was--if DTS works, why don't they do DTS on ch 7, not 45.



there might be extra costs associated with deploying DTS, after all a second antenna and transmitter are needed. which brings us back to the original point....maybe they have a budget problem. is the congressional fund supposed to subsidize the whole DTS test?


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16877944
> 
> 
> there might be extra costs associated with deploying DTS, after all a second antenna and transmitter are needed. which brings us back to the original point....maybe they have a budget problem. is the congressional fund supposed to subsidize the whole DTS test?



Yes. It pays for all DTS equipment, rents and tests...


----------



## reddice

I agree that channel 7 should have stayed on RF 45. Although I can get RF 7 reliable my mother can't get it at all on her receiver. Also RF 11 is horrible because most of the time I can't get it at all. The only station I see that improved reception was RF 13 although there is many people who can't get the VHF channels.


----------



## rothe

I suspect that many (most?) of the decisions to retain VHF channels were based on marketing. WNET is a prime example: their corporate logo and internet identity are all tied to "Thirteen" or "thirteen.org." And virtual channels just confuse people.


----------



## LenL

Probably many agree with you about 13 and 7 etc..


I disagree because I could not only care less if 13 is also RF 13 but once you have your TV or converter box tune in the stations you pretty much can forget about what the RF station is. I have been messing with this stuff for a year now and I have remembered some of the RF stations go with what station but as time is passing on I am forgetting and really have NO need to know what goes with what. The technology takes care of that for you.


So I think having RF 13 for station 13 is a bunch of bull crap.


----------



## rothe

Wow!


It looks like I must have stepped on somebody's toes!


----------



## NYC10033

Does anyone know if VCR Plus+ codes still apply?


I recently found a VCR with VCR Plus+ and thought I'd try it out - but I think DTV changed the whole game.


I googled VCR Plus+, I don't see anything saying that VCR Plus+ is dead, I see no VCR Plus+ codes on tvguide.com.


----------



## andgarden

Interestingly, WCBS is now the hardest catch from my apt on the UWS, followed by WNBC. Pre-transition, WCBS was cake. Go figure.


----------



## reddice

Pre-transition, WCBS was a lost cause. Could barely get it. Now I can get WCBS easy but can't get WPIX.


----------



## reddice

Channel 47 WNJU I am peaking at 100. How come so many of you can't get it? Are they broadcasting off 4TS, ESB or still in NJ? I think they are still in NJ because I can get that crappy WFME channel peaking at 98.


If RF 28 and 31 really add a fill in antenna for brooklyn that will be great since channel 4 is weak. My mother tries to watch it and gets annoyed when it keeps breaking up.


----------



## SnellKrell

At this time, WNJU-DT is transmitting from both West Orange, NJ and 4TS - using DTS.


Eventually, it will move its transmission to almost the top of the ESB's antenna mast with

650kW!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16881984
> 
> 
> I suspect that many (most?) of the decisions to retain VHF channels were based on marketing. WNET is a prime example: their corporate logo and internet identity are all tied to "Thirteen" or "thirteen.org." And virtual channels just confuse people.




in the pre DTV days yes actual channel # WAS your identity. in the dtv world, actual frequency does not matter. CBS is still called ch2 even though its on 33, NBC is still ch4 even though its on 28, etc. virtual channels are not confusing.


----------



## Falcon_77

They are only confusing if one still believes that the virtual channel has anything to do with antenna requirements. It doesn't.


We could call them A-Z, etc. and it wouldn't matter.


----------



## reddice

That would explain it. If all the NYC locals broadcasted in West Orange I would be getting excellent reception.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16885478
> 
> 
> WNJB Channel 8 is now on the air from its NY location. As of this morning I am receiving an excellent signal from WNJB on channel 8 at my location about 25 miles north of midtown Manhattan. WNJM, channel 50 is gone at my location.



Are you sure the station has already moved? I doubt it - the schedule supplied to the FCC calls for October.


More than likely, atmospheric conditions have allowed you to receive WNJB -

not a change in transmission location.


Earlier this morning, I was able for only the second time to receive WLNY - and now it's gone!


----------



## R.F. Burns

Here is my current run down of received stations at my location in southern NY state;


channel signal strength


2 - 10

4 - 8-9

5 - 10

7 - 9-10

9 - 10

11 - 6

13- 6

25 - 10

39 - 0-2

41- 10

47 - 0-3

58- 3-4

63- 2-3

66 - 4


----------



## Trip in VA

I've watched stations via tropospheric ducting at constant strength for hours on end. It usually fades by 11AM.


It doesn't make any sense that you'd suddenly lose 50 when 58 started coming in, because 50 isn't supposed to be making any changes. What makes more sense is that tropospheric ducting is bringing in another channel 51 signal and interfering with WNJN.


Let us know what it looks like at noon. That'd give a more definitive answer.










- Trip


----------



## LenL

Sorry, my comments were not directed at you but at the people in the industry that made the decisions to make changes to high VHF because they want 13 to be RF 13.


I did not mean to make it sound like I was after you.....I am a long time ex Long Branch resident and love you shore folks!


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16882817
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if VCR Plus+ codes still apply?
> 
> 
> I recently found a VCR with VCR Plus+ and thought I'd try it out - but I think DTV changed the whole game.
> 
> 
> I googled VCR Plus+, I don't see anything saying that VCR Plus+ is dead, I see no VCR Plus+ codes on tvguide.com.



If I remember, VCR Plus was a quick set-up feature that programmed the unit to turn on and record at the specific time and tune to the specific channel for the duration of the desired program.


As you say, _"DTV changed the whole game."_ A VCR has only an NTSC (analog) tuner, which is now useless...


You will need to just set up a timer program on your VCR for what you want to record, from channel 3 - the feed from your DTV converter box. Then get the DISH DTV PAL+ as this is the only converter box I'm aware of that is capable of doing unassisted timer programs. Very easy to use, just bring up the on-screen pgm guide, go into the future, click on a pgm and follow the prompts for once, every week, etc. The unit then turns on and tunes to the desired channel for the duration of the desired pgm.


Or you could make your life easy and spring for the $250 and get the DISH DTV PAL DVR and toss the VCR altogether - Better picture, (records in full Hi-Def) DD sound, and no tapes to mess with.


----------



## R.F. Burns

What I would love to see is a DVR with a burner. As of now to the best of my knowledge the DVR is only good for time shifting and not archiving. A DVR which could also archive programing on a DVD (or some equivilant) would be a great device and that would cause me to throw out my current S-VHS VCR & DVD recorders.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/16881984
> 
> 
> I suspect that many (most?) of the decisions to retain VHF channels were based on marketing. WNET is a prime example: their corporate logo and internet identity are all tied to "Thirteen" or "thirteen.org." And virtual channels just confuse people.



I agree with LenL, nyctveng and Falcon_77.


Choosing the actual RF frequency that is the same as the virtual channel to "maintain corporate image" is just about the lamest excuse ever, considering the "virtual channel" is what everyone's going to remember anyway since this is what you're tuning to.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16884019
> 
> 
> They are only confusing if one still believes that the virtual channel has anything to do with antenna requirements. It doesn't.
> 
> 
> We could call them A-Z, etc. and it wouldn't matter.



Personally I think they should've just dropped the virtual *channel#* altogether, and just used the stations call letters *with* the actual RF channel; i.e. WCBS-NY33. This way there would be *no* confusion about antennas...


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16886343
> 
> 
> What I would love to see is a DVR with a burner. As of now to the best of my knowledge the DVR is only good for time shifting and not archiving. A DVR which could also archive programing on a DVD (or some equivilant) would be a great device and that would cause me to throw out my current S-VHS VCR & DVD recorders.



This is something I would like to see also. I am a long time DISH network customer (over 5 years) with an old 501 DVR receiver. It only has ~35 Hrs of hard drive space (SD only) and when I want to archive something I have to let it play while I record it on my DVD recorder - a PITA. A combined unit would probably be able to do it in the background, and at increased speed, making it much more user friendly.


On the other hand though, I think CD's & DVD's are [to some degree] a dying technology. We now have much more efficient means of digital storage. ~300 Hr DVR's with expansion HDD of ~650 Hrs. Link it to your computer's 1-TB HDD and how could anyone ever fill that up? And everything's at your fingertips at a moments notice...


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16886343
> 
> 
> What I would love to see is a DVR with a burner.



put a TV Tuner card in your computer and you can do whatever you want with the videos you record. if your computer is too far from the TV set, ask a knowledgeable friend to build a cheap $300 PC for you just for this purpose. to make it blend with the living room (in case aesthetics is important for you), ask him to use a short, black and horizontal case. this way the PC will look like a VCR. to control it, you can use a wireless mouse, which is cheap.


i've been using my 2 PCs as a DVRs for 8 years. i dont look back! not only i can save my recordings to disc, but i can also transfer them to my Creative Zen Vision:M and watch them in the subway!


----------



## R.F. Burns

It'sa all well and good to save material on a hard drive but that's not really archiving. What's the typical lifespan of a hard drive, 10 years or maybe 15 at the outside? A DVD or some kind of disc storage has a life far exceeding 20 years or more. I have CD-R's that are very old and still playnig well. It's like acetate tape. It supposedly had a life of 50 years but I have a few acetate reels of tape that are older. I've seen too many hard drive crash and with it take the material stored on it with it. Eventually there willl be a static ram device that will safely store archived material but the size needed to do so on a large scale isn't there yet.


----------



## Trip in VA

How's WNJB doing?


- Trip


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16887075
> 
> 
> It'sa all well and good to save material on a hard drive but that's not really archiving. What's the typical lifespan of a hard drive, 10 years or maybe 15 at the outside? A DVD or some kind of disc storage has a life far exceeding 20 years or more. I have CD-R's that are very old and still playnig well. It's like acetate tape. It supposedly had a life of 50 years but I have a few acetate reels of tape that are older. I've seen too many hard drive crash and with it take the material stored on it with it. Eventually there willl be a static ram device that will safely store archived material but the size needed to do so on a large scale isn't there yet.



People using PCs as their main hub for home entertainment system is growing specially for those who are dumping cable for on line shows. Isn't the whole idea of Xbox-360 and Playstation 3 to be the main hub, both can pay and record but i still think just playstation can do blue ray.


----------



## tahoejoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16887075
> 
> 
> It'sa all well and good to save material on a hard drive but that's not really archiving. What's the typical lifespan of a hard drive, 10 years or maybe 15 at the outside? A DVD or some kind of disc storage has a life far exceeding 20 years or more. I have CD-R's that are very old and still playnig well. It's like acetate tape. It supposedly had a life of 50 years but I have a few acetate reels of tape that are older. I've seen too many hard drive crash and with it take the material stored on it with it. Eventually there willl be a static ram device that will safely store archived material but the size needed to do so on a large scale isn't there yet.



That may be true for Manufactured or "pressed" CDs/DVDs, but I don't believe the same is true for "Home burned" Cds/DVDs. It has been reported that the dye level on these is not very stable, especially on some of the older ones, so don't plan on your dvds lasting that long. I recently tried to encode some dvds I had recorded only a few years ago to play on my PMP, and had difficulty even reading some of the VOBs on many of them.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's "New York, NY - OTA."


Shall we get back on subject?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16886424
> 
> 
> I agree with LenL, nyctveng and Falcon_77.
> 
> 
> Choosing the actual RF frequency that is the same as the virtual channel to "maintain corporate image" is just about the lamest excuse ever, considering the "virtual channel" is what everyone's going to remember anyway since this is what you're tuning to.



I never said that I thought that it was a good idea. I was just trying to get into the heads of the decision makers that chose to go back to VHF-hi frequencies.


With hindsight, I'd bet that even those decision makers are thinking that this was a bad idea.


Or maybe they were considering where they'd be on cable and satellite provider's lineups. Considering that, and how few people in the world are trying to use OTA, that may have been their prime motivation.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16885753
> 
> 
> Sorry, my comments were not directed at you but at the people in the industry that made the decisions to make changes to high VHF because they want 13 to be RF 13.



I considered that after I replied. No matter - no offense taken.



> Quote:
> I did not mean to make it sound like I was after you.....I am a long time ex Long Branch resident and love you shore folks!



Aaahhh... so you're a bennie, now? That explains the attitude.


----------



## LenL

That's not nice.....I grew up in LB and left when I was about 30. I should be grandfathered as a shore resident and not be accused of being a bennie!


I come back in September to have a dog at Maxes, an Italian ice at Strollos and a pizza at Freddies. Spend a few hours on the beach and walk the boardwalk and mabe drive over to Asbury Park to relive the days when a gang of us would go to the fun house, take in some rides, go to a movie and walk the boardwalk. Ah great memories!


Now I wish I had a home there so I could have a clear shot at the ESB! No hills just flat terrain!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16885680
> 
> 
> I've watched stations via tropospheric ducting at constant strength for hours on end. It usually fades by 11AM.
> 
> 
> It doesn't make any sense that you'd suddenly lose 50 when 58 started coming in, because 50 isn't supposed to be making any changes. What makes more sense is that tropospheric ducting is bringing in another channel 51 signal and interfering with WNJN.
> 
> 
> Let us know what it looks like at noon. That'd give a more definitive answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



I'm 99% sure it's tropo. We had wicked thunderstorms here last night.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16887096
> 
> 
> How's WNJB doing?
> 
> 
> - Trip



OK Sorry I jumped to conclusions because up to this point I hadn't received WNJB at all. I had received Ch's 54 & 48 off the back of my antenna from upstate NY (and they are about 60 miles to the north, north east of my location) but I knew that was due to enhancement. Oh well, live & learn. WNJM is back in the meantime.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/16890149
> 
> 
> That may be true for Manufactured or "pressed" CDs/DVDs, but I don't believe the same is true for "Home burned" Cds/DVDs. It has been reported that the dye level on these is not very stable, especially on some of the older ones, so don't plan on your dvds lasting that long. I recently tried to encode some dvds I had recorded only a few years ago to play on my PMP, and had difficulty even reading some of the VOBs on many of them.



I have CD-r's going back to the late 90's and they play with no problem. My recordable DVD's go back about 8 years and they haven't show any problems either. I suppose much of it depends on the brand of writable material and how they are stored.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16882817
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if VCR Plus+ codes still apply? ... I see no VCR Plus+ codes on tvguide.com.



They still print the VCRPlus codes in the TV listings of the NY Daily News.


----------



## SnellKrell

As of this morning, I'm once again receiving Channel 36, WNJU-DT.


I did notice that the station applied for a new, temporary transmission site on the ESB's

Mooring Mast - using the station's old analogue antenna - and putting out a healthy

750kw.


Don't think this has been fired up yet - but, whatever the station has done - don't think it's atmospherics - it's working for me!


----------



## NervousCat

I recently saw this article in Broadcasting & Cable... looks like some FCC engineers may be coming to our area.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...blem_Areas.php


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, I've lost 36 again!


Obviously, by way of previous experiences, the station must have shut down one of its two DTS transmitters this morning into this afternoon.


DTS - you're killing me!


----------



## reddice

Channel 36 I also keep losing it. When I can get it is my strongest channel but at times like yesterday I can't get it.


Edit: Right now I am getting it. Peaking it at 90%.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16897622
> 
> 
> Well, I've lost 36 again!
> 
> 
> Obviously, by way of previous experiences, the station must have shut down one of its two DTS transmitters this morning into this afternoon.
> 
> 
> DTS - you're killing me!



And by extension, others, myself included, too.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16876482
> 
> 
> 
> The DT-APP is a placeholder for Freedom Tower, should that ever get finished.



It's not the "Freedom Tower", that name was never official and it will not be sued. The PANYNJ has officially named the building, "1 World Trade Center".


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andgarden* /forum/post/16882977
> 
> 
> Interestingly, WCBS is now the hardest catch from my apt on the UWS, followed by WNBC. Pre-transition, WCBS was cake. Go figure.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16883502
> 
> 
> Pre-transition, WCBS was a lost cause. Could barely get it. Now I can get WCBS easy but can't get WPIX.



Move to Astoria, where every station comes in perfectly stable and clear with a strong signal - with merely a set of telescoping rabbit ears that don't even need to be extended. I can have them fully "collapsed" and flat in a "T" shape and still get everything with no issues. I must live in some weird sweet spot for signals from the ESB.


----------



## nycdigital09

nycla in astoria do you receive wnjb channel 8 with rabbit ears i'm in jackson heights next to you, i dont get 51.1 or 8.1 njn. or 21.1 wliw.


----------



## dagger666

Last nights storms were screwing with the reception, the station single strength didn't change but the single broke up like crazy specially 11.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/16900268
> 
> 
> Last nights storms were screwing with the reception, the station single strength didn't change but the single broke up like crazy specially 11.



The high-VHFs are particularly susceptible to the electrical impulse noise from lightning. That cannot be "fixed" except by not using those channels in the first place.


UHF can also be affected but its a much higher threshold.


----------



## dagger666

My antenna passes through a Belkin Power Conditioner which is supposed to filter RFI/EMI interference, does it help? I have the in line amp connected to the power conditioner and the antenna connected to that, the whole cable from the antenna to the amp is about 18 feet long. I'm using mono-price coaxial cable so they are of good quality and antenna.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/16901802
> 
> 
> My antenna passes through a Belkin Power Conditioner which is supposed to filter RFI/EMI interference, does it help? I have the in line amp connected to the power conditioner and the antenna connected to that, the whole cable from the antenna to the amp is about 18 feet long. I'm using mono-price coaxial cable so they are of good quality and antenna.



No, won't help. The disruption to the signal is before or as it gets to your antenna.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16899054
> 
> 
> Move to Astoria, where every station comes in perfectly stable and clear with a strong signal - with merely a set of telescoping rabbit ears that don't even need to be extended. I can have them fully "collapsed" and flat in a "T" shape and still get everything with no issues. I must live in some weird sweet spot for signals from the ESB.



Move to downtown Brooklyn and you will be able to get the West Orange stations (29, 36) really strong with no problems but other stations like 40, 28, 11 you will have problems even with the best of the indoor antennas.


----------



## nyctveng

reddice, nycla


to say astoria or downtown brooklyn would give you good reception to certain channels may be inaccurate. you may be able to get stations your next door neighbor may not get. your reception quality depends on many factors including height, weather, antenna, receive equipment, direction you face, building/house material, potential nearby interference , etc


your window can face a brick wall in a basement and may be able to pickup all channels or you can be 1 mile line of sight from empire state and get nothing because next door is a con ed substation.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16904174
> 
> 
> Move to downtown Brooklyn and you will be able to get the West Orange stations (29, 36) really strong with no problems but other stations like 40, 28, 11 you will have problems even with the best of the indoor antennas.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/16904353
> 
> 
> reddice, nycla
> 
> 
> to say astoria or downtown brooklyn would give you good reception to certain channels may be inaccurate. you may be able to get stations your next door neighbor may not get. your reception quality depends on many factors including height, weather, antenna, receive equipment, direction you face, building/house material, potential nearby interference , etc
> 
> 
> your window can face a brick wall in a basement and may be able to pickup all channels or you can be 1 mile line of sight from empire state and get nothing because next door is a con ed substation.



Your statements have been repeated here ad infinitum, ad nauseam but some people refuse to deal with the frustrating realities of television transmission!


----------



## reddice

I know digital reception is very fickle. I learned that last year when I got my first HDTV and been reading and posting here since there.


By the way I have been getting channel 13 good. Still peaking it at 70. Channel 11 reception still of course still stinks. I wonder if high VHF reception would be better or worse in the fall and winter seasons.


----------



## SemiChemE

So are they still working on the antennas on ESB? I just (5-minutes ago) lost Ch13 (signal dropped from 30% to 0) and suddenly Ch11 jumped from an intermittent 20% to a watchable 30%. Channel 7 was absent, but suddenly is coming in at 10% (still unwatchable). It seems like these stations keep switching something around, with 13 only showing up after midnight. Are they broadcasting from an alternate site while work is being done on ESB or what's going on?


----------



## SnellKrell

Only 7 has a backup facility and that's located on the Conde Nast Building - 4TS.


Stations will often do dark between 1 and 5 a.m. to allow work to be done.


There's a lot of now unused hardware on both the Antenna Mast and the Mooring Mast to be removed and stations relocating to higher and better real estate.


This will go on for about another year and a half!


----------



## Falcon_77

As respects KVNV's request to move to the Big Apple from the far reaches of Northern Nevada, even if no one cares to try and receive it on RF channel 3, I had another thought.


What about all the modulators (millions of them?) set to channel 3 locally? Being an "odd" market, with 4 having been a strong analog local in the past, I suspect that almost all of them are set to 3 and not 4.


What's going to happen when a strong 10kW signal on 3 suddenly signs on locally? Judging from experiences I've heard with a certain station (WBRA), it won't be pretty.


However, I don't think there's anything we can do to stop KVNV's move to 3, unfortunately.


Of course, switching the various millions of modulators to 4 will be easy and painless.










3 and 4 should be made into quiet zones, unless UHF and/or ATSC/QAM modulators suddenly become standard.


----------



## nordloewelabs

maybe the FCC, given the special circumstance, will grant them a diff frequency: ch-2 or ch-5. they cant give them anything on the UHF band because any other station would use KVNV's case as precedent and try to move to a VHF channel in NJ just so that they could be -- ultimately -- moved up to UHF. not sure if i have worded it in the right way.


----------



## reddice

Low VHF should have never been used for digital TV. They should have reserved it for expanding the FM dial.


----------



## NYCLA*

*What is Channel 3.1?* My box said it added a "new service" Channel 3.1. All it is is a blank white screen with low quality weather warning/information audio.


----------



## Trip in VA

Probably WBQM-LD. http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wbqm 

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1226829.html 


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

WNJB has abandoned its plans to relocate to 4 Times Square.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

are you sure? why? are they going to use DTS or increase signal strength, instead? if i could receive WLIW-21 i woudnt mind losing WJNB as much.


i emailed WLIW-21 twice asking whether they had plans to a) move the transmitter to Manhattan; b) boost signal; c) use DTS; d) broadcast "PBS World" on WNET or WNJB. they never replied.... :-\\


----------



## Trip in VA

 I'm as sure as is possible in these things .


"IN PARTICULAR, AS A RESULT OF THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN, THE APPLICANT'S BOARD DETERMINED IN JUNE 2009 THAT THE RELOCATION TO 4 TIMES SQUARE IS NO LONGER FINANCIALLY VIABLE."


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16911797
> 
> 
> WNJB has abandoned its plans to relocate to 4 Times Square.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Does this mean WABC will have to make any changes?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16911797
> 
> 
> WNJB has abandoned its plans to relocate to 4 Times Square.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I'm not surprised at all!


What does surprise me is that this move was ever contemplated at all.


The only reason for a New Jersey Public Television Station to have wanted to move its transmission to 4TS was to gain a larger audience outside of New Jersey and to receive more pledge and underwriter/advertiser dollars.


If that be the case, fine. But why move the station in New Brunswick, WNJB, which is further from the New York Metropolitan area, than move WNJN in Montclair - which is much closer?


Beyond, that, for the station to use financial difficulties as the reason for this decision is nothing new for NJ Public Television.


All the way back to October 12, 2007, the New Jersey PTV stations requested an STA to operate its analog stations at reduced power (50%)

necessitated by serious budgetary difficulties. The stations' words, not mine.


Here's a direct quote: "The Licensee does not anticipate having the resources to operate the analog facility at full power prior to the end of the transition."


Even with federal grants to help in the digital transition, how in good conscience could any station, especially a public station even think of making the move?


Although I usually shun conspiracy theories, I've always felt that there was a gray presence behind the move, namely WABC in its desperate attempt to secure channel 7 for its digital station. The concept of co-location was the key!


According to the Commission, the only way WABC could have channel 7 was if Channel 8 were to be co-located. The Empire State and the Conde Nast Buildings are considered co-located. Aha, that's why the New Brunswick station wanted to move its transmitter to Manhattan and not the Montclair station. The plot thickens!


Interesting that it's been brought up now, what happens to WABC-DT and channel 7?


Has WABC decided to abandon its hard fought for channel 7 - the way its sister station in Chicago, WLS has?


Did the Mouse House inform New Jersey of a change of mind?


Who knows?


There are just a number of circumstances that play off of each other.


Let's have some more juice for Montclair to widen its audience in the Metro area and more importantly, let's have WABC, tail between its corporate legs, give up on 7 and find a place where it should be on the UHF band.


Yes, I do like to watch "Mystery" on Public Television!!!!


----------



## LenL

Very well put!


My thoughts....if they moved one of the NJ PBS stations, NJB or NJN to the Empire State or 4TS they could probably eliminate one of them, save money, due to the possible increase in broadcast coverage. They all have the same shows on at the same time. So it makes sense to eliminate one if you can cover the same area from a better location.


Maybe its an experiment, and if the get the results they are looking for one station is eliminated.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16912519
> 
> 
> Has WABC decided to abandon its hard fought for channel 7 - the way its sister station in Chicago, WLS has?



is ABC Chicago moving out of the VHF band?!?!



> Quote:
> Yes, I do like to watch "Mystery" on Public Television!!!!



i'm a big fan of Miss Marple, myself!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16913053
> 
> 
> is ABC Chicago moving out of the VHF band?!?!



Yep. Filed paperwork to abandon channel 7 (at 4.75 kW) in favor of channel 44 (at 473.33 kW).


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16913074
> 
> 
> Yep. Filed paperwork to abandon channel 7 (at 4.75 kW) in favor of channel 44 (at 473.33 kW).



what a circus! but hold on, WABC-7 hasnt even been granted the power boost for which they applied a month ago. would they scratch that plan without even trying and move to UHF? and if they do move up, that means they would reactivate the antenna and transmitter they were using pre-transition, right? easy and quick implementation, right?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16913128
> 
> 
> what a circus! but hold on, WABC-7 hasnt even been granted the power boost for which they applied a month ago. would they scratch that plan without even trying and move to UHF?



I'm not sure. The problem for WLS was that they simply could not increase power enough to make it work. They tested at 9.5 kW and while it was better, it wasn't enough and WOOD-7 and WMVS-8 wouldn't accept the additional interference.


I just picked through the WABC 27 kW document and they claim the only impermissible interference is to the WNJB STA (not to the construction permit for 4TS) but now that they're trying to make the STA permanent, it might fail and be denied. I'm really not sure how the FCC is going to handle this one.



> Quote:
> and if they do move up, that means they would reactivate the antenna and transmitter they were using pre-transition, right? easy and quick implementation, right?



One would hope. That assumes they move back to 45 instead of trying to find a clearer channel (not sure where they would find a clearer channel).


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16913128
> 
> 
> what a circus! but hold on, WABC-7 hasnt even been granted the power boost for which they applied a month ago. would they scratch that plan without even trying and move to UHF? and if they do move up, that means they would reactivate the antenna and transmitter they were using pre-transition, right? easy and quick implementation, right?



And, WLS, Chicago had also applied for a boost in power and additionally, the use of a UHF fill-in transmitter. All of that didn't stop the station from throwing in the towel concerning VHF!


WABC-DT's Channel 45 facility was on a different ESB Combiner. That Combiner antenna is now servicing Channels 28, 33 and 38.


Who knows what's the state of WABC-DT's previous Channel 45 transmitter?


Those of us who are having trouble properly receiving Channel 7 can

only pray!


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16908031
> 
> *What is Channel 3.1?* My box said it added a "new service" Channel 3.1. All it is is a blank white screen with low quality weather warning/information audio.



What is the real channel # for this, 3 or 50? I see a CP for 50 in addition to the STA for 3 that Trip linked.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16913263
> 
> 
> What is the real channel # for this, 3 or 50? I see a CP for 50 in addition to the STA for 3 that Trip linked.



Last time I saw it, it was 3.


I imagine if it had made the move to 50, we'd have heard more about it.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

That stinks that RF 8 is not moving to 4TS. I was looking forward to it since channel 50 I sometimes have problems. It can be good at certain times and then weak and break at at others. Lets hope Monclair will boost power for RF 51. Also lets hope New York will follow Chicago and move RF 7 back to RF 45. Although I can get RF 7 at times when we have storms it breaks up a lot even though it is coming in the 60's. Also my mother can't get it at all. I can also pray that they move RF 11 back to a UHF channel since that channel is the worst with trying to get it reliable or at all.


----------



## nycdigital09

im fortunate to have uhf antenna on my roof i can get all pbs stations 21 49 13 51 no problem even 20 from hartford is coming good


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16883851
> 
> 
> At this time, WNJU-DT is transmitting from both West Orange, NJ and 4TS - using DTS.
> 
> 
> Eventually, it will move its transmission to almost the top of the ESB's antenna mast with
> 
> 650kW!



750 but who's counting.


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/16899577
> 
> 
> nycla in astoria do you receive wnjb channel 8 with rabbit ears i'm in jackson heights next to you, i dont get 51.1 or 8.1 njn. or 21.1 wliw.



No, only *New York stations that broadcast from the ESB.* Nothing from New Jersey. So I mean *2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 25, 31 and all associated sub-channels*. I also can get all those Spanish networks, but I have deleted them all. I also deleted 5.2, 9.2, 11.2, and the religious stuff on 31.4. I kept 13.3 (V-Me).


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16912686
> 
> 
> Very well put!
> 
> 
> My thoughts....if they moved one of the NJ PBS stations, NJB or NJN to the Empire State or 4TS they could probably eliminate one of them, save money, due to the possible increase in broadcast coverage. They all have the same shows on at the same time. So it makes sense to eliminate one if you can cover the same area from a better location.
> 
> 
> Maybe its an experiment, and if the get the results they are looking for one station is eliminated.



Every PBS station is different! I currently watch 13, 21, and 49, each of which has different programming (49 and 13 are similar, but not identical). When atmospheric conditions are favorable, I can get 50 (WNJN), which is still different. The only things I can find in common is 21.2 and 49.2 are both CREATE.

Mike


----------



## MTVhike

I'm curious about all the VHF complaints. I receive all three VHF channels (7, 11, and 13) with a simple dipole made of twin lead (11 poorly), but my reception of the UHF ones is much more marginal, even with a Channel MaSTER UHF Yagi! I never get 2, 4, or 9, and rarely 5 (all have UHF real channels).


----------



## kousikb

Two three days days back I was reading in WSJ that, ABC has the highest advertising rate (for primetime shows), followed by CBS, FOX and NBC. I guess these are determined by marketforce.. may be ratings like Nielsen ratings. In fact I can understand how that adds up.. in my house, we used to watch mostly ABC or FOX.. CBS mostly had more violence/crime oriented shows (except Mon I think). NBC is almost similar to CBS but not as exciting as FOX and ABC. Now that ABC has become unreliable (in my case 70% probablity that I would get it), at least in my house FOX has gained at the cost of ABC. Now I am talking about my house, where we prefer to watch light shows, reality based shows (but not ghetto like Big Brother.. or "get me outta here. Im a celeb" - not sure whether that's the correct name). I feel there are lot of primetime network shows viewers similar to my profile. If Nielsen ratings shows a viewership decline for ABC (quite possible because NYC OTA market is huge), ABC mgmt would surely notice it and try to fix it. For WLS, how are they planning to communicate to the viewers that ABC is moving to UHF? Also.. going by the above theory CW11 should really be at the bottom of the barrel (previously held by my9).


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb* /forum/post/16921340
> 
> 
> If Nielsen ratings shows a viewership decline for ABC (quite possible because NYC OTA market is huge), ABC mgmt would surely notice it and try to fix it.



I'm actually curious about the size of the NYC OTA market. New York I believe has one of the highest cable penetration rates in the country, due in large part to 9/11 taking out all the big stations in the market except channel 2.


That said, even if the percentage is lower, due to the sheer numbers, it could still be a larger number of people. I'm quite curious.



> Quote:
> For WLS, how are they planning to communicate to the viewers that ABC is moving to UHF?



So far, they're not. If it was me, I wouldn't be communicating a thing to the general public until the FCC gave at least initial approval of the plan. If the FCC says no to WWAZ's request to move to channel 5, the channel 44 plan falls apart. Don't want to get hopes up among too many people until something is in stone.


- Trip


----------



## andgarden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16921618
> 
> 
> I'm actually curious about the size of the NYC OTA market. New York I believe has one of the highest cable penetration rates in the country, due in large part to 9/11 taking out all the big stations in the market except channel 2.
> 
> 
> That said, even if the percentage is lower, due to the sheer numbers, it could still be a larger number of people. I'm quite curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far, they're not. If it was me, I wouldn't be communicating a thing to the general public until the FCC gave at least initial approval of the plan. If the FCC says no to WWAZ's request to move to channel 5, the channel 44 plan falls apart. Don't want to get hopes up among too many people until something is in stone.
> 
> 
> - Trip



If you ever tried to watch analog OTA in a big city, you would understand why the cable penetration was so high. The multipath was beyond belief. (It still is, which is one of the reasons why DTV is so much trouble here).


----------



## Trip in VA

I used to live in Saddle Brook, NJ more than 15 years ago. I remember intense multipath on channel 50, but not on others. I know, not a good comparison, but I know how multipath can be.


I also remember seeing a metric ton of it on 58 everywhere I went that it would come in (not in Saddle Brook). Even coming up I-95 I had a lot of problems with it that I don't remember seeing on the NY stations.


It comes as no surprise to me that multipath is a problem, but I do remember that cable penetration went up a LOT after 9/11 when people who didn't have multipath problems had trouble seeing the reduced signals.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Networks and New York television stations are not really going to feel the impact of a station not reaching some of its former O-T-A viewers.


Yes, the New York DMA has one of the three highest penetrations of Cable and

Alternative Delivery Systems (Satellite for the most part) - 96.0% compared to

Palm Springs, CA - 96.4% and West Palm Beach/Ft. Pierce FL - 96.5%.


Cable in the NYC area, as Trip mentioned, was embraced at the beginning because of impossible reception problems - then add the World Trade Center disaster.


So, with 96% of all NY DMA television homes receiving programming via cable or satellite, there isn't much of an argument concerning pressure exerted by missing

O-T-A viewers. Sorry!


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16922194
> 
> 
> So, with 96% of all NY DMA television homes receiving programming via cable or satellite, there isn't much of an argument concerning pressure exerted by missing
> 
> O-T-A viewers. Sorry!



Maybe not but those 4% of NY DMA television homes are more than all the television homes in the Johnstown / Altoona / State College, PA (101st) DMA.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sammer* /forum/post/16922581
> 
> 
> Maybe not but those 4% of NY DMA television homes are more than all the television homes in the Johnstown / Altoona / State College, PA (101st) DMA.




Good try!


But only a fraction of those households are watching the ABC station and not all of them are experiencing reception problems.


Your universe is getting smaller and smaller and therefore to a station really insignificant!


----------



## R.F. Burns

Many providers are now taking their signals off the air as opposed to taking a fiber feed for redelivery to homes. That means that OTA signals are extremely important to not only those who receive television OTA, but to cable and satellite providers as well.


----------



## DTVintermods

If, as some suggest, OTA is increasingly unimportant to NYC broadcasters, why are they pressuring the FCC for more power, relief from senseless interference rules, fight the introduction of unregulated new devices in the TV spectrum and investing in better antennas on ESB?


----------



## SnellKrell

There are a number of reasons:


Stations must protect their frequencies - before the transition, there were many who felt that O-T-A was passe and wanted it abandoned. Assets must be defended.


Many cable companies and satellite providers continue to receive their feeds from local stations via O-T-A.


Stations hope that their digital sub-channels will be an asset - a commodity that can be leased for cash. Some have already started this practice.


Mobile Television is just starting and many stations and their parent companies see it as the "future" of O-T-A.


----------



## DTVintermods

Yes. There's plenty of room for growth of OTA if certain improvements are made, especially in Rx technologies, to promote much more reliable reception. That is, at least 99% of the time at the best 75% of the locations. For now, the FCC power allocation is based on analog service availability of only 90% of the time at the best 50% of the locations. But analog is not killed by multipath, the killer of DTV OTA.


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/16924489
> 
> 
> Many providers are now taking their signals off the air as opposed to taking a fiber feed for redelivery to homes. That means that OTA signals are extremely important to not only those who receive television OTA, but to cable and satellite providers as well.



Yes but such providers are using towers and professional equipment and not what consumers typically use.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16921618
> 
> 
> If the FCC says no to WWAZ's request to move to channel 5, the [WLS] channel 44 plan falls apart.



Isn't WWAZ/44 dark right now, however? (since 1/08 from what I'm reading) That's the irony of it. So, an ABC station has to give way to a station that has no current operations, but has a permit to build on 44.


It would make more sense if the Big 4 could move to UHF in major markets, where it's a problem, swapping VHF allocations with small stations that don't have as many viewers. The fragmentation of the big 4 in all but a relative handful of top 100 markets was not a good idea.


Also, last I heard the FCC hadn't lowered the license fee of VHF stations (going by the old allocation) vs. UHF. So, a VHF virtual channel number still carries a premium, thanks to the old days of VHF being king. In other words, at least for now, a small UHF station could move to VHF and still pay the lower UHF fee. At least for now...


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MTVhike* /forum/post/16920732
> 
> 
> I'm curious about all the VHF complaints. I receive all three VHF channels (7, 11, and 13) with a simple dipole made of twin lead (11 poorly), but my reception of the UHF ones is much more marginal, even with a Channel MaSTER UHF Yagi! I never get 2, 4, or 9, and rarely 5 (all have UHF real channels).



Would you mind sharing your TV Fool plot?


Can you get the Hartford stations?


I'm guessing you are having problems with trees. A general plot for Stony Brook shows most NYC stations in the yellow region, which should not be especially weak.


Where is are the antennas mounted? Are you using RG6 cabling?


----------



## NYCLA*




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16924769
> 
> 
> before the transition, there were many who felt that O-T-A was passe and wanted it abandoned.



If that happened then there would have to be a law passed that said that basic cable providing the traditional broadcast OTA stations be provided for free. Satellite too for those living in areas where there is no cable. You just buy the box (and dish if necessary).


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/16925235
> 
> 
> Would you mind sharing your TV Fool plot?
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post16735563
> 
> 
> Can you get the Hartford stations? Yes, some
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you are having problems with trees. A general plot for Stony Brook shows most NYC stations in the yellow region, which should not be especially weak.
> 
> 
> Where is are the antennas mounted? Are you using RG6 cabling?



UHF: in the attic; VHF: on a 10' length of PVC pipe stuck out the attic window. I am using RG6 between the UHF antenna and the CM7777 preamp. The VHF dipole is 300 ohm; about 6 feet from the balun on the preamp. The cable between the two parts of the preamp is about 15 feet of RG59; the cable between the inside part of the preamp is about 30 feet of RG59. Both of these are inside the wall (are these long enough to make it worthwhile to replace them?)


After I am convinced that my antenna "farm" will work, I plan to move it to my roof, or on the NNW-facing end of my attic (outside). Because my roof slope is 45 degrees, and about 50 feet above the ground, and I would have to rent a ladder long enough to reach, I only want to do this once.


My real point was "why do people have so much trouble picking up the high-VHF stations when I can pick them up from 45 miles away with such a wimpy antenna?"


Mike


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sammer* /forum/post/16925056
> 
> 
> Yes but such providers are using towers and professional equipment and not what consumers typically use.



True, but I was responding to the question which was, why do stations care about their OTA transmissions. They do have an OTA audience, be it private homes or redistributers.


----------



## LenL

A lot of us have problems because unlike YOU, we live between the transmitters and obstacles like buildings, hills, trees, and mountains! Just to name some of the issues.


----------



## clio22

Has anyone else had a significant increase in signal strength on these problematic channels?


I live in Long Beach, Long Island/20 miles from ESB, using a CM and an old Radio Shack amplified. I was previously getting only 30% on 7 and 13 and either nothing at all or an unwatchable and highly pixelated 11. Now I'm getting 7 at 100%, 11 at 54%, and 13 at 76%, all stable. And I don't have to switch the antenna positions. I only have to switch for WLIW, which I had to do anyway pre-transition.


I think that, when the stations went off-air last week for antenna work, they made some kind of adjustments to the 3 signals. I didn't notice it until today because I was pretty much ignoring Ch 11 since it seemed hopeless.


----------



## SnellKrell

There have been no power increases for those stations.


You are being blessed by atmospherics.


Enjoy while you can!


----------



## SemiChemE

I'm just curious, how other people's experiences align with my own. What is the "strongest" signal you are unable to receive and the "weakest" signal you are able to receive?


For example, according to TVfool.com, WXXA(7, 23.1) should be quite strong at my location (PWR=-67.7dBm), but I can't detect even a blip. Meanwhile, I can pull in WPIX-11 (PWR=-106.5) consistently and on a good day I get WNET-13 (PWR=-106.6dBm), as well. Clearly, something's going on that the simulations just can't handle.


On the UHF side, I can't get W30AZ (PWR=-87.9 dBM), yet I pull in WNYE-24 (PWR=-111) and I even get WFUT-30 (PWR=-109.2) off of the back of the UHF antenna when pointed towards Albany! I suppose it is Murphy's law that allows me to pull in these stragglers, while I can't get any of the UHF NYC major networks (WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR).


----------



## nycdigital09

I get nada on wnjb ch8 or 50 i get wliw 21 off the back of my yagi pointed to nyc i'm near lga queenz


----------



## clio22

"There have been no power increases for those stations. You are being blessed by atmospherics. Enjoy while you can!"


LOL !


----------



## LenL

on the VHF side I can receive 7 very well and 58.1 (8) with some break up but not 11 or 13.


On the UHF side 4.1 and 5.1 have been great and 2.1 has been almost as good. I can't receive 9.1 at all.


25.1 and 68.1 come in very good. followed by 50.1. 31.1 is spotty along with 41.1, 47.1 63.1


----------



## nordloewelabs

does anyone here have any information on WSAH's application to move to ESB? found out about it today thru a fellow beard member. when are they planning to move? that would be NYC's first old-tv-shows channel.


----------



## SnellKrell

BPCDT 20080620ALT 301 E WSAH 70493 DT ACCEPTED FOR FILING 06/23/2008

Info | Application


I found this application dated 6/23/2008 to move to the ESB. It looked as if the application is predicated upon offering Chinese programming.


RTV (be careful referring to it as My. MY is a broadcast network owned by News Corp.)

is the proper name of the network affiliatiated with WSAH.


I have no information if and when a move may occur.


Why don't you call the station and ask?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16937283
> 
> 
> RTV (be careful referring to it as My. MY is a broadcast network owned by News Corp.)



I meant to type "any" but I'm on my TabletPC and hand-writing recognition isn't always accurate.







i might call them but chances are the people answering won't know a thing.


----------



## Trip in VA

A guy from WSAH frequents another forum I visit and he won't say anything about it.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

regarding the "Chinese Programming".... can that be enforced? I mean, I thought that programming was outside FCC's Jurisdiction.


----------



## Trip in VA

WWME-CA in Chicago is operating its analog at 363 kW, which is at twice the limit (which is 150 kW) and they argued it to the FCC as a place to put the now digital-only foreign language WFBT-CA that preceded the current programming. It now shows classic TV shows.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16937431
> 
> 
> regarding the "Chinese Programming".... can that be enforced? I mean, I thought that programming was outside FCC's Jurisdiction.



Stations are supposed to show the FCC that they will service "the public's interest, convenience and necessity."


The premise of the station's application to move to the ESB was that there was a large Chinese community not being served correctly - and that if the station were to have its signal from ESB the community would be served.


Although the Commission has given up on holding stations' "feet to the fire,"

in the case with WSAH, its the entire raison d'etre for the application.


In calling the station, you might want to ask for the Chief Engineer - engineers a nice and knowledgeable people!!!!!!


----------



## Trip in VA

There'd be nothing stopping them from airing RTV on 43-1 and Chinese on 43-2.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16937441
> 
> 
> WWME-CA in Chicago is operating its analog at 363 kW, which is at twice the limit (which is 150 kW) and they argued it to the FCC as a place to put the now digital-only foreign language WFBT-CA that preceded the current programming. It now shows classic TV shows.



I'm having a hard time to understand this... WWME is shown on Rabbit as an "LD" airing at 4.4 KW. also. what does the foreign programming have to do with the need for extra power? I can understand a need for a wider band to fit more channels, but more power...? could you, if and when possible, re-phrase the post... I'm very confused. by the way. do they have a leg to stand on?


----------



## Trip in VA

The *analog* is a CA, and it's at 363 kW. They argued that the foreign language audience would be better served with more power. And the FCC went for it.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

thank you guys for enlightening me further.


btw, I received my Winegard HD 7694P this weekend and I'm shocked at the fact that, so far, I have not been able to find a sweet spot for it inside the apartment. I haven't tried it hard enough due to lack of time, but i must say I was expecting to throw it under the fridge and immediately resolve my Hi-VHF problems without much effort. I'm afraid this antenna will be a "white elephant"...


----------



## n2ubp

----

My real point was "why do people have so much trouble picking up the high-VHF stations when I can pick them up from 45 miles away with such a wimpy antenna?"

----


Each receiver and TV installation is unique. I live 50 miles NW of NYC. My friend 2 miles away has no problems with WABC 7. I can not receive a reliable signal from WABC 7. The topographic cross section reception map from TV Fool for my location and my friends location show my friend has one less small hill between his location and ESB. The small hill is just enough to cause problems for me with receiving channel 7, even though I had no trouble receiving 7 when it was analog (higher power?). The people depending on OTA in my area are really pissed that they can no longer receive a signal. These people either are on low or fixed income, have an "issue" with paying CATV or Satellite for a service that they feel should be free, or have been satisfied by the limited OTA programming of the past and have no interest in paying to receive 200+ CATV channels of what they feel is crap content.


----------



## reddice

I have no problems receiving WABC 7 or WNET 13. It is WPIX 11 I still can't get or get reliability.


----------



## nycdigital09

im receiving 43.1 wsah with bunny ears anybody know if they move to city yet ? also no signal on fox 5 must be maintenance


----------



## NYC10033

The BEST show on WPIX 11 is Star Trek (the original series), at 1AM Sunday morning, with enhanced graphics (the Enterprise looks GREAT and the planets being orbited look GREAT incorporating what has been learned about how planets look from space - like pale atmospheric glow)


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16959259
> 
> 
> The BEST show on WPIX 11 is Star Trek (the original series), at 1AM Sunday morning,



agreed. Star Trek is the only thing i miss from CW! i catch it online, though (the whole series is available on the CBS channel on YouTube ).


however, i heard that that soap opera they call "Smallville" might become a real super hero show this season with Kent finally getting a uniform and flying. if it happens, i *might* watch it.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/16958890
> 
> 
> im receiving 43.1 wsah with bunny ears anybody know if they move to city yet ? also no signal on fox 5 must be maintenance



can you give us an idea of where you live?

also, for how long have you been able to receive WSAH?


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16959751
> 
> 
> agreed. Star Trek is the only thing i miss from CW! i catch it online, though (the whole series is available on the CBS channel on YouTube ).
> 
> 
> however, i heard that that soap opera they call "Smallville" might become a real super hero show this season with Kent finally getting a uniform and flying. if it happens, i *might* watch it.



The MOST IMPORTANT point about _Star Trek_ on WPIX 11 is the video quality - DTV plus the judicious use of enhanced special effects (Enterprise and planets).


I generally HATE the CGI that are overused in movies today.


The show following _Star Trek_, is _Star Gate_ - I couldn't care less about *Gate.

*I feel sorry for anyone who likes Star Trek and can't receive WPIX.*


I've never seen Smallville. I love DC Comics (HATE Marvel) and Superman will always, ONLY be *GEORGE REEVES*.


P.S. Superman appears in _Gone With the Wind_ too.


----------



## reddice

I agree the original Star Trek looks great upcoverted.


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/16960709
> 
> 
> I agree the original Star Trek looks great upcoverted.



It's more than upconverted, it's been REMASTERED.


See...
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...cle/28135.html 


Check out some of the Original and Enhanced images.


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/16937602
> 
> 
> Stations are supposed to show the FCC that they will service "the public's interest, convenience and necessity."
> 
> 
> The premise of the station's application to move to the ESB was that there was a large Chinese community not being served correctly - and that if the station were to have its signal from ESB the community would be served.
> 
> 
> Although the Commission has given up on holding stations' "feet to the fire,"
> 
> in the case with WSAH, its the entire raison d'etre for the application.
> 
> 
> In calling the station, you might want to ask for the Chief Engineer - engineers a nice and knowledgeable people!!!!!!



Speaking of Chinese Programming...


I notice 48-2 is now showing CCTV-9. Fortunately the service is in English. Anyone else seeing this?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16912686
> 
> 
> Very well put!
> 
> 
> My thoughts....if they moved one of the NJ PBS stations, NJB or NJN to the Empire State or 4TS they could probably eliminate one of them, save money, due to the possible increase in broadcast coverage. They all have the same shows on at the same time. So it makes sense to eliminate one if you can cover the same area from a better location.
> 
> 
> Maybe its an experiment, and if the get the results they are looking for one station is eliminated.



That would be nice, but I doubt it. They have translators in quite a few places that IMHO they could more easily get rid of


----------



## nycdigital09

i get 43.1 retro tv using bunny ears i live in 11369 next to lga. only in late night though i think theyre using more radiated power than usual, last night it was coming in real strong i have zenith dt901 converter, i usually get 43.1 on my rooftop uhf yagi, i think theyre signal is stronger than wedn 49.1 cptv. and theyre further away i have 7775 preamp on yagi uhf


----------



## pantrychef

63.3 is longer MBC-D. It is now CGN-TV.

I will miss the English subtitled dramas on this channel...


From MBC-D:

-----

Broadcasts in New York/New Jersey (Ch.63-3) Temporarily Suspended


MBC AMERICA 2009.07.30 08:21:23 Due to unforeseen circumstances, MBC America will temporarily suspend the broadcast of MBCD in the New York/New Jersey areas starting August 1st. Thank you for watching and we will do our best to bring MBCD back on the air as soon as possible. - MBC America

-----


From WMBC-TV:


-----

WMBC is now broadcasting CGNTV programming, 24/7


CGNTV (Christian Global Network Television) specializes in Christian missionary education programming broadcasting to 123 countries, 24 hours a day. CGNTV's broadcasting objective is to supply Korean missionaries all over the world with spiritual training resources as well as help Korean Christian diasporas maintain their spiritual walk with God.

-----


There is a new 63.6 with label WDNJ. It appears to be audio only and in Spanish.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/16964474
> 
> 
> i get 43.1 retro tv using bunny ears i live in 11369 next to lga. only in late night though i think theyre using more radiated power than usual, last night it was coming in real strong i have zenith dt901 converter, i usually get 43.1 on my rooftop uhf yagi, i think theyre signal is stronger than wedn 49.1 cptv. and theyre further away i have 7775 preamp on yagi uhf



is there any subs on 43? how is the programing?


----------



## nycdigital09

try quiznoz lol yeah 43.1 43.2 paid program for montel williams blender







i got a brand new winegard ap 4800 amp if anyone intested


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/16959914
> 
> 
> The MOST IMPORTANT point about _Star Trek_ on WPIX 11 is the video quality - DTV plus the judicious use of enhanced special effects (Enterprise and planets).
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> I've never seen Smallville. I love DC Comics (HATE Marvel) and Superman will always, ONLY be *GEORGE REEVES*.



i havent put much effort into trying to find a sweet spot for receiving CW, but i will try it at some point.... it has taken me months to find a sweet spot for ABC and Thirteen.....and in all likelihood, the spot for CW will be in a totally distinct place.


man, your Superman is really old school.







i remember watching that in early 80s.... i was ninja enough to tie a bathroom towel around my neck and go "flying" around the neighbourhood after the show....







i never forget that intro showing him near a "waving" flag in the vacuum of space! classic! nevertheless, *Christopher* is my fave Super!


----------



## LenL

I know some of you have made antennas rather than buy. There are a number of websites that give directions on how to make them.


My question is does the type of metal matter? For example if you were to use solid copper wire would that pick up more signal than the metal used in the antennas we buy which appears to be either hollow core aluminum or solid aluminum?


Copper is quite soft and expensive so I can see that store bought antennas would need to be sturdier. However If I was going to mount a homebuilt antenna in an attic or in a living room would copper be a better material to use?


----------



## nordloewelabs

i made my Folded Dipole using 12-AWG wire. It's a bit better than a regular rabbit ears but without directors and a reflector, it can't do much for Hi-VHF (I'm 10 miles north of ESB). so if you are planning to make an antenna for UHF plus Hi-VHF, get ready for some stress. my advice is to buy a cheap RCA ANT751 or better. Hi-VHF is a PITA! I bought a Winegard HD 7694P and placed it indoors (what on eye-sore!). but now I get ABC and Thirteen at 90%.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16970297
> 
> 
> I know some of you have made antennas rather than buy. There are a number of websites that give directions on how to make them.



As is most often the case with the internet, there is much mis-information out there... When I first got interested in all this I threw together the u-tube whisker antenna - with unimpressive results. Then after much research I built a G-H which showed more promise. The u-tube doesn't maintain impedance at the crossover points of the phase lines, the elements are too short & spacings too close, and it's built on wood - which also messes with the impedance. (PVC pipe is a *much* better choice.)


The whole point, as I see it, is to build an antenna which not only costs a fraction of that of a commercial design, but to improve performance. Most current commercial designs were for ch's14-69 and as we now only need to top out at 51 the gain curve can be lowered in frequency, thus improving performance for both the lower UHF channels, and also down into hi-VHF too. Check out DHC for both perfected versions of the CM4221 whisker antenna (mclapp designs) and the G-H antenna's.


I'm currently working on a G-H with collinear rod reflectors & something called NAROD's which boost the gain in hi-VHF to usable levels. I may dedicate this afternoon to putting it together and will post some pic's, and let you know how it worked out. (If you like Len, PM me and I'll email you the links to the various pages with gain comarasion charts and the pdf's with diagrams & dimensions - the search can be quite exhausting.)











> Quote:
> My question is does the type of metal matter? For example if you were to use solid copper wire would that pick up more signal than the metal used in the antennas we buy which appears to be either hollow core aluminum or solid aluminum?



Copper has a lower resistance than aluminum, and in many cases is easier to obtain. Aluminum is harder, can be obtained in straight rods, is lighter, and is probably a bit more weather resistant. From everything I've read it makes but an infinitesimal difference as far as actually capturing more signal. (Improving the gain.) Way more important is the construction method used, and achieving dimensional accuracy to the models.



> Quote:
> Copper is quite soft and expensive so I can see that store bought antennas would need to be sturdier. However If I was going to mount a homebuilt antenna in an attic or in a living room would copper be a better material to use?



Copper wire can be both straightened and work hardened by simply placing one end of a length of wire in a stationary vise and the other in a drill and spinning the wire - this makes it much easier to work with!


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/16972404
> 
> 
> ...I bought a Winegard HD 7694P and placed it indoors (what on eye-sore!). but now I get ABC and Thirteen at 90%.



I was LMAO when in an earlier post you mentioned something about just sticking this under your refrigerator!










The 7694 is a pretty big antenna - You got this thing hanging from the LR ceiling with fishing line, or did you just dedicate a spare bedroom to it???


At your location I'm surprised you didn't try a homemade mclapp whisker or a G-H... At least either of these hanging on your wall you could've called modern art! LOL


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/16970297
> 
> 
> I know some of you have made antennas rather than buy. There are a number of websites that give directions on how to make them.
> 
> 
> My question is does the type of metal matter? For example if you were to use solid copper wire would that pick up more signal than the metal used in the antennas we buy which appears to be either hollow core aluminum or solid aluminum?
> 
> 
> Copper is quite soft and expensive so I can see that store bought antennas would need to be sturdier. However If I was going to mount a homebuilt antenna in an attic or in a living room would copper be a better material to use?



akahooper have covered most of the issues for home built antennas. What I have experienced and seen from various resources on the internet are:

1) Material: Aluminium is more weather resistant and light too and is more suited for outdoor application. Used indoor or in attic, it doesm't really

make a difference.

2) Materials used for support: If the whiskers for the 4 bay design are screwed into wood (as shown in the youtube), there is a considerable loss in

gain. Also if the antenna is outdoor and if the wood gets wait, it becomes a poor conductor adding to the complexity and unreliability of the antenna.

So PVC standoff with grooves are the best to mount whiskers and feed line.

3) Reflector: This is the second most important aspect of the antenna after choosing the antenna design. Without reflector, the gains are much less.

Also reflectors aid in Hi-VHF performance.

4) Element symmetry and dimension: More the elements are symmetrical and close to the design dimension, the more gain it will have because of better

resonance performance. This is why commercial antennas are more practical and useful than typical home built ones. But sometime, people would like to

surpass the performance offered by commercial ones by custom solution. mclapps design is one of the good one. Although its difficult to build than the

de-facto youtube one.

5) Balun and RG6 quality: Both RG6 and balun quality also matters.


I still haven't managed to build the mclapp one yet, although I have all the materials with me. I plan to build one. I built the youtube coathanger

one( 4-bay) sometime back.. it was better than lot of commercial off-the-shelf antenna but was not better than the Terk HDTVa or the eagle-aspen DB2

clone because of all the above points I mentioned above. I would like to rectify them this time when I build the mclapp one.

Currently I am using a Channel Master 3010 Stealth antenna with CM3084 pre-amp (with FM trap enabled). Although I am getting all the NYC market chanels

except 11(never get it) and 13(I get it only if tropo helps me), I wouldn't rate this antenna high marks. If I had to start over, I'd have bought

a RCA ANT751 with a good quality low noise pre-amp.


----------



## LenL

AKA and Kousib,


Great info for me an others considering making an antenna! I have two antennas outside (CM4228 and a UHF) feeding 2 TVs. Trying to split the signals has too much downside at my location so I would like to put a home made antenna in the attic to feed my 3rd TV which is sitting idle for now.


I thought it would be a fun project to build one for the attic at this point. Looks would not matter and I really only need to get a few stations for TV 3.


I think the suggestions you folks gave are a great help!


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCLA** /forum/post/16908031
> 
> *What is Channel 3.1?* My box said it added a "new service" Channel 3.1. All it is is a blank white screen with low quality weather warning/information audio.



3-1 is christian broadcast, daytime if you want still picture with the sound

you may hear on DigitalTV, go to Analog 46, Alo


----------



## AloEuro

More I watch DTV more commercials I see, out of 30+ programs, when I scroll it

at least 15 of them are showing commercials same time, 5 are so so, 10 Spanish,

I really like 47Telemundo, most have English subtitles, on CC3 or Service2,Alo


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/16974262
> 
> 
> The 7694 is a pretty big antenna - You got this thing hanging from the LR ceiling with fishing line, or did you just dedicate a spare bedroom to it???
> 
> 
> At your location I'm surprised you didn't try a homemade mclapp whisker or a G-H... At least either of these hanging on your wall you could've called modern art! LOL



it's in a corner in the kitchen, mounted on a tripod, at about 1.5m off the floor. i might get a higher tripod later so that i can place the antenna flush with the ceiling, but i don't want to make holes anywhere. even though i have addressed the problem with channels 7 and 13, CW is still dark.


the reason why i didn't try more home-made designs is because it became clear to me that Hi-VHF is a *serious challenge*. i had already wasted 2 months with indoor antennas and a home-made Folded Dipole. it was high time to stop playing like a boy and start acting like a man!







and by that i mean: it was time to recognize the time-sink Hi-VHF has become and attack it with the "big guns".


in retrospect, i think an RCA ANT751 would have probably done the job too, but i doubt any other home-made design or UHF-only antenna would have yielded decent results for Hi-VHF. besides, I have lousy handyman skills. I'm happy with my new eye-sore!


----------



## jpru34

I have the 7694p and it takes up a large portion of my attic. I couldn't imagine having it in my kitchen. I think my wife would seriously leave me if I even tried.....


----------



## Falcon_77

Doug Lung has a new article on TVT:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/85186 


He has included a coverage map for WNBC, which includes building loss calculations:

http://dtvcoverage.xmtr.com/wnbc-dt.html 


This can be panned and zoomed out.


His idea about vertically polarized on channel repeaters was of interest, since I know of some problems with DTS as implemented by WNJU.


This idea sounds a lot like the cell phone approach:



> Quote:
> I'd like to see broadcasters be given the flexibility to use low-power (maximum 30 to 50 watts transmitter output) on-channel repeaters inside their coverage area with streamlined FCC processing, perhaps registration-only with notification to adjacent-channel stations, to fill in these coverage holes when and where needed.



If only we had a system with native SFN support.


----------



## Trip in VA

Amazing what a little trial and error can find: http://dtvcoverage.xmtr.com/wnju-dt.html 


- Trip


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/16980616
> 
> 
> I have the 7694p and it takes up a large portion of my attic. I couldn't imagine having it in my kitchen. I think my wife would seriously leave me if I even tried.....



LOL!


Obviously we're dealing with a bachelor here...


----------



## starry521

can anyone help me? Since the switch to digital i haven't been able to receive abc and cw. The rest of the channels aren't that good, have to constantly move the antenna to get different channels, but I can still get them. I use an indoor antenna. I'm about 16 miles from the city, in jersey. Does anyone know what kind of antenna I should get?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starry521* /forum/post/16984966
> 
> 
> Since the switch to digital i haven't been able to receive abc and cw.



welcome to the already crowded club. the 3 Hi-VHF channels of the area (ABC, CW, Thirteen) are extremely hard to receive with indoor antennas....and CW is the hardest! put some serious consideration into buying an outdoor VHF+UHF antenna like the Winegard HD-7694P (i have one), AntennaCraft HBU33 or the RCA ANT751.


smaller antennas like ChannelMaster CM3010, CM2016 or Winegard HD-1080 **might** also work for your location but the bigger antennas tend to yield better results. just remember: indoor antennas dont usually handle Hi-VHF channels well.



> Quote:
> [...] have to constantly move the antenna to get different channels, [...]



that's typical with indoor antennas.


----------



## tahoejoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starry521* /forum/post/16984966
> 
> 
> can anyone help me? Since the switch to digital i haven't been able to receive abc and cw. The rest of the channels aren't that good, have to constantly move the antenna to get different channels, but I can still get them. I use an indoor antenna. I'm about 16 miles from the city, in jersey. Does anyone know what kind of antenna I should get?



What city are you located in? I'm about 20 miles away from the city in E. Hanover NJ. I have a radio shack antenna in my attic which does a good job in getting the UHF channels, but I have to combine that with an outdoor roof antenna to get 7, 11, and 13.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starry521* /forum/post/16984966
> 
> 
> can anyone help me? Since the switch to digital i haven't been able to receive abc and cw. The rest of the channels aren't that good, have to constantly move the antenna to get different channels, but I can still get them. I use an indoor antenna. I'm about 16 miles from the city, in jersey. Does anyone know what kind of antenna I should get?



Not to sound condescending, but did you rescan? Those channels both moved along with some others.


----------



## rothe

 about over-the-air TV reception


I learned a couple of things about my reception conditions recently, and thought that I'd pass them on. The first applies to my attic mounted antenna, but would likely apply to any roof or attic mounted antenna just the same.


The second issue relates to antenna cable routing, and could affect anyone, regardless of antenna placement. Anyone with a home theater PC or a computer near their TV should take special note of this tip, though.


Anyway, I'm going to post these comments in separate messages, in hopes that someone who needs this information won't skip the whole post just because half of it didn't apply to them. Stand by.


----------



## rothe

When you have an attic mounted antenna, a wet roof can interfere with your signal. In my case, the antenna is aimed at the transmitting antennas, looking through the north gable (triangular end) of the roof. The gables are covered by the roof overhang, and stay dry during almost any rain. As such, aiming through this portion of the roof is not nearly as susceptible to signal attenuation due to moisture in the roofing shingles.


However! I have found that a clogged gutter can actually cause enough signal scatter to nearly eliminate a TV signal on certain channels. For several days after a recent hard rain, I couldn't receive a number of channels that normally came in just fine. It wasn't until I was outside looking around at the gutters that I realized that one of them was dripping from the center of its length - it must be clogged! That's a 20 foot length of 5-inch-wide gutter, filled with water, just a few feet away from the attic mounted antenna. As far as the antenna was concerned, that 20 foot block of water was reflecting signals in a way that could cancel out certain frequencies. I'm surprised that I received any TV at all while that gutter was clogged!


----------



## rothe

It's not very well publicized, but one of the tenets of good antenna cable routing is to not coil up any extra length of cable that you might have. Spooled up cable will actually choke off certain frequencies, possibly to include one channel that you've been having trouble receiving. In my case, it was RF channel 13 (WNET). Once I noticed and straightened the extra loops in my excess antenna cable, suddenly channel 13 starting coming in again. I had battled reception problems related to that station for two months after the digital transition before I uncoiled my excess antenna cable and apparently solved the problem.


At the same time, I made a point of routing the antenna cable away from a nearby Ethernet cable. A typical Fast Ethernet or Gigabit Ethernet signal has a base frequency of 100Mhz. That's certainly lower than any VHF-hi TV signal, but I could imagine a harmonic of that frequency interfering with channel 11, in particular, and to a lesser extent, with the entire range that a tuner or signal amplifier is called on to process.


I also made sure that the antenna cable no longer passed over the antenna pre-amplifier's power injector anymore. This power injector is basically an AC-to-DC transformer, so I'm sure that it could actually be the source of some electrical noise if a looped signal cable were to pass over it a number of times.


----------



## dagger666

last night channel 11 single strength stayed the same but was very hard to watch







while channel 9 took a 25 point jump in signal strength







. I know big storms have been moving through our area but they mostly kill single strength not boost it.


----------



## AloEuro

" CGNTV (Christian Global Network Television) specializes in Christian missionary education programming broadcasting to 123 countries, 24 hours a day. CGNTV's broadcasting objective is to supply Korean missionaries all over the world with spiritual training resources as well as help Korean Christian diasporas maintain their spiritual walk with God."

Last night I have turned TV to Analog, ch.46 is dead but it is on CGNch.17 Analog,

under given circumstances with a lot of rain-snow it is watchable.

There is also the Shopping ch.on 60, awful sight, and ch32 on DTV1-1 or 6-1.


----------



## dagger666

Oh well so much for small wonders, channel 9 now went down the same amount it increased last night







.


Mono Price Indoor/outdoor digital antenna on my bedroom wall 13 miles away from NYC.

Single strength changes in 60 second time frame.

*Friday 8/14 9:00 PM*

2.1 - 34 to 49

4.1 - 46 to 55

5.1 - 40 to 76

7.1 - 00 to 00

9.1 - 36 to 43

11.1 -15 to 17

13.1 - 22 to 26

21.1 - 00 to 00

25.1 - 58 to 67

31.1 - 19 to 20

34.1 – 00 to 00

41.1 – 49 solid

47.1 – 17 to 34

68.1 – 46 solid


BTW: I think this folder should be broken into sub folders for OTA,Cablevision,twc and others. Would make it faster for people to find post for their reception method than running through cable posts. Why HDTV topic, it's all HDTV


----------



## nycdigital09

looking at tvfool page it says ch 7 signal is strongest off the channels in nyc area with 58 mile radius. im in nwest queens i get all nyc channels strong, even though im surrounded by 6 story buildings on all sides. (i live in 2 story house). the only channels that dont show up are njn 50.1 wliw 21.1


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17007693
> 
> 
> looking at tvfool page it says ch 7 signal is strongest off the channels in nyc area with 58 mile radius. I'm in nwest queens i get all nyc channels strong, even though im surrounded by 6 story buildings on all sides. (i live in 2 story house). the only channels that dont show up are njn 50.1 wliw 21.1



I have had problems with all the VHF channels since they returned from UHF. Not sure why 7 is so hard to receive and 11 has had problems lately. Single strength hasn't change but the picture breaks up a lot to the point of being unwatchable. I read the reviews on Monoprice and it seams lot of people are having trouble with this antenna and the VHF. It never really locked in the VHF channels even before the switchover but since it gets 13 fine figured it would get 7 & 11 same since they come from the same tower locations.


----------



## nycdigital09

i use rabbit ears for high vhf but i fold it to more than 17" on each side of rods. because the vhf frequencies half wave dipole is only 34" for channel 7 . it usually works well, i use the rabbit ears also for fm


----------



## nycdigital09

lately i been using a preamplifier winegard hdp-269 on the rabbit ears i get a stronger signal and cleaner picture. is only 14db of gain, and high input capabiltiy so it won't overload the signal.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/17018910
> 
> 
> I have had problems with all the VHF channels since they returned from UHF. Not sure why 7 is so hard to receive and 11 has had problems lately. Single strength hasn't change but the picture breaks up a lot to the point of being unwatchable.



In digital as is in analog measured signal power includes mutipath power. But in digital, the always destructive multipath power becomes undesired noise even as the equalizer may attenuate some of it. In other words, multipath always causes the SNR to get nearer and sometime over the cliff-edge...

The point is, signal power is insufficient condition for DTV reception.


----------



## seamus21514

I'm getting WRNN for the first time...it's a bit choppy, but watchable. Anybody else in NYC getting it?


----------



## R.F. Burns

I've received it now & again in on the North Jersey border with my attic mounted TV antenna pointed towards NYC. I'm sure if I put up a rotor I'd have no trouble receiving RNN. I also get WTBY which I believe is broadcasting from the same mountain.


----------



## lexus2108

What analog stations are coming in now?


Can you guys list the channel numbers and what is on that station


thanks


----------



## nycdigital09

i just installed the y6713 vhf antenna from winegard on the roof. this antenna is about 8' length is very good for upper vhf channels 7-13 i can get ch 8 and 10 from new brunswick, new haven respectively, without turning it. i aim strait to manhattan and it picks up connecticut, bouncing off building across from me. i live in queens near laguardia airport. no amp needed.


----------



## pantrychef

From Northern Bergen County in NJ the only remaining analog channel I can receive from my attic mounted antenna is Channel 60, W60AI.


The other analog channel, WEBR-CA is now transmitting in digital. Currently the only active stream (480i) is on 17.2, WEBR-SD. WEBR-HD on 17.1 (1080i) and WEBR-SD2 on 17.3 (480i) are running color bars.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/17043541
> 
> 
> The other analog channel, WEBR-CA is now transmitting in digital. Currently the only active stream (480i) is on 17.2, WEBR-SD. WEBR-HD on 17.1 (1080i) and WEBR-SD2 on 17.3 (480i) are running color bars.



Wow, thanks for the tip on that. They're doing 0.315 kW and it's pretty directional away from New Jersey, so I don't know if I'll be seeing this one when I make my next visit in December...


I must admit, I'll be really surprised if the 1080i feed doesn't go away and get replaced with two 480i feeds.


- Trip


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17043830
> 
> 
> Wow, thanks for the tip on that. They're doing 0.315 kW and it's pretty directional away from New Jersey



According to their authorization letter from the FCC, WEBR-CA needs to show -123dBm on Channel 16 (presumably to avoid interference to NYC 2-way radios), accept interference from WMBC and not interfere with their current and future operations including DTS...


It's a miracle WEBR is allowed to operate at all.


BTW, the program listing for WMBC on your site may need an update, just a gentle observation. See post 9992.


----------



## Trip in VA

Wow, thanks for the tip. I don't know how I missed that post. I think I've corrected it now.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip -


While you're in the "correction" mood -

here are changes for NY DMA, Channel 39 - WNYN-LD.


You can add the following:


39.6 Azteca America

39.7 Infomercials

39.8 Infomercials

39.9 Infomercials


----------



## Trip in VA

Done.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17044841
> 
> 
> Trip -
> 
> 
> While you're in the "correction" mood -
> 
> here are changes for NY DMA, Channel 39 - WNYN-LD.
> 
> 
> You can add the following:
> 
> 
> 39.6 Azteca America
> 
> 39.7 Infomercials
> 
> 39.8 Infomercials
> 
> 39.9 Infomercials



My Coship box puts into memory 39-1 the AtecaAmerica

39-2,3,4.5 the Infocommercials

then register 4 more but same time it 'deletes' by itself so there are on ch. 39 only 5 programs.

My iNet1921 in addition to the 5 registers 4more 39-2817.2818.2819.2820


----------



## SnellKrell

The additions I suggested are by way of watching Channels 39.6 through 39.9 using the OTA tuner on my Sharp HDTV.


----------



## andyng

Looks like I need to get new equipment to watch OTA now.

I just canceled cable yesterday and returned the box.

I have CM 4228 up the roof of my building but I haven't used it since the past 2 years or so.


I read the past 10 pages or so of this thread and it seems to me we are worse of now than before in turn of HD OTA. I thought the signal must be better by now.


----------



## andyng

I'm in the Bronx, near Fordham University. Anyone with experience up here?


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andyng* /forum/post/17045336
> 
> 
> I'm in the Bronx, near Fordham University. Anyone with experience up here?



...on whether the 4228 has a clear view of the ESB/4TS. Bottom line is that multipath appears to have a more destructive effect on the received signal. Whereas ghosting under analog may be annoying to the viewer, ghosting under digital may result in a "no signal" condition.


Having said that, reading these pages may give you a skewed view of things as folks tend to report problems more than successes. Though I have adjusted the antennas a few times this year, I have no complaints as I pick up over 50 channels including 11 in HD, all with no monthly fee.


Best of luck to you.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17044841
> 
> 
> Trip -
> 
> 
> While you're in the "correction" mood -
> 
> here are changes for NY DMA, Channel 39 - WNYN-LD.
> 
> 
> You can add the following:
> 
> 
> 39.6 Azteca America
> 
> 39.7 Infomercials
> 
> 39.8 Infomercials
> 
> 39.9 Infomercials



My aunt gets these stations, but since I moved the antenna to get Channel 11 better. These 39 channel is marginal and any bad weather it gets pixelated.


BUT there is nothing to watch except infomercials. Waste of a channel and my time.


----------



## jpru34

Bizarre, I get everything as normal now but nothing for CBS. anyone know what is going on?


----------



## jpru34

can anyone confirm if CBS-2 is broadcasting at normal strength. I get every sinle other channel at full strength, as per normal, but still nothing on CBS-2.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just did a scan and WCBS-DT (33) appears to be coming in within its usual range of signal quality.


I did notice yesterday that the signal was lower. It's difficult to know what the cause might be - have a feeling its was atmospherics.


----------



## jpru34

thanks Snell. for what it's worth, the signals that are coming in weakest for me are the channels that use the UHF-combiner on the ESB (2,4, and 9). I am getting 100% signal on 5,7,11,13, 31, etc....


I wonder if some work is/was being performed on the UHF-Combiner or if this is something specific to me (although I doubt it b\\c I am getting all the other channels listed above at 100%). If anyone finds out any additional info, it would be most appreciated.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/17052262
> 
> 
> thanks Snell. for what it's worth, the signals that are coming in weakest for me are the channels that use the UHF-combiner on the ESB (2,4, and 9). I am getting 100% signal on 5,7,11,13, 31, etc....
> 
> 
> I wonder if some work is/was being performed on the UHF-Combiner or if this is something specific to me (although I doubt it b\\c I am getting all the other channels listed above at 100%). If anyone finds out any additional info, it would be most appreciated.



4 and 9 are also coming in within "normal" parameters, for me, that is.


100% for the other channels, WOW! I'll trade with you!!!!


----------



## SnellKrell

I'm now receiving WNJU-DT (36) which disappeared from my set when the DTS on 4TS was brought on line.


It appears that the station has fired-up its interim facility on the ESB - 1141'/750kW -

using the unused Channel 47 antenna.


What an improvement!


Look forward to the station moving farther up to the Antenna Mast - 1443'/650kw.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, 36's signal has once again disappeared!


Let's hope the switch to ESB is imminent!


----------



## R.F. Burns

I was able to receive WEBR this morning on a RCA converter (Which is actually more sensitive than either HDTV I own). I received 3 channels from them, all pixilated and very weak about 25 miles north west of Manhattan. I did note that their HD 1 channel was airing a simulcast of WCBS TV. That brings up to 68 (counting main & subs) HDTV channels I've received at my house. All channels are not always receivable but the converter box allows me to add more channels via rescan without losing the ones already received at an earlier date.


----------



## SnellKrell

"I did note that their HD 1 channel was airing a simulcast of WCBS TV."


Huh?


If so, grossly unethical and no less illegal!!!!


Are you sure?


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17065434
> 
> 
> If so, grossly unethical and no less illegal!!!!



Not if they have permission, that's what translator stations do.


----------



## SnellKrell

A translator is owned by the parent television station!


WEBR is owned by: K Licensee, Inc. in Flushing, New York and is in no way connected to the owner of WCBS-DT, CBS Broadcasting Inc.


WCBS-DT has applied with the Commission for its own translator on Channel 22 out of

Plainview, NY.


If WEBR is in fact rebroadcasting the signal of WCBS-TV, the station is clearly doing so illegally!


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17066793
> 
> 
> A translator is owned by the parent television station!



Sorry, but you are wrong. More often than not, a translator is independently owned and operated.


----------



## SnellKrell

First, this station is not a translator, it's a low power U showing Korean language programming.


In New York City, from what I can discern, all the translators (not to be confused with independent, low power stations) are owned by full power parent stations.


What you have in King George, VA may very well be different.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17067463
> 
> 
> First, this station is not a translator, it's a low power U showing Korean language programming.
> 
> 
> In New York City, from what I can discern, all the translators (not to be confused with independent, low power stations) are owned by full power parent stations.
> 
> 
> What you have in King George, VA may very well be different.



Can' a station (any station) rent a subchannel on another station (any other station) and run any programming whose rights it owns? Could it be that WCBS ownership has arranged to rent a subchannel on WEBR to carry WCBS to "fill-in" some reception holes??


----------



## SnellKrell

Here in NY, we do have a "rental" of sub-channel. LATV, featuring Spanish language/music programming uses WPIX-DT's (Tribune Broadcasting) sub-channel.


This is quite common around the country. This how program services achieve clearances.


I will bet the ranch, or the penthouse, that in no way has WCBS arranged for WEBR to rebroadcast its signal. As I mentioned previously, WCBS wants its own translator on WLIW's tower in Plainview, NY, Channel 22 to service problem reception areas in southern Connecticut and on Long Island.


WEBR has an ERP of 0.315kW, and a Contour Range of 5 miles (if it's lucky) with a directional signal.


WCBS-DT has absolutely no need to "rent" a WEBR sub-channel!


----------



## AloEuro

It is kind of strange that any DTV station like 39 would be using 9 ch. 1primary 8subs

in order to load the air with ectronic junk, I use only 39-1,2 the primary has solid broad-

casting including real futbol, the 2nd is for monitoring purpose to see if they turned it to

real programs, the rest are edited out -left in outer space for you my friends.

I wonder if the paid TV-cable,satelites have option to Edit out unwanted subch. sin ce I have never ever had paid TV, (it takes away my freedom,forces me to watch TV to synchronize my time with TV time if I paid $$ for it). Apparently the first 2 digits 28-17 etc suggest that it could be OTA or paidTV somewhere in Calif. or Miami,Colo./Chicago/

LoneStar region, alo.


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17067463
> 
> 
> First, this station is not a translator, it's a low power U showing Korean language programming.
> 
> 
> In New York City, from what I can discern, all the translators (not to be confused with independent, low power stations) are owned by full power parent stations.
> 
> 
> What you have in King George, VA may very well be different.



OK, LPTV is a different service than translators are. Doesn't change the fact that translators are not necessarily owned by the originating station.


With the evolving understanding of how ATSC DTV works in broadcasting, you never know what arrangements might be in force. WEBR and WCBS may have a short-term arrangement to test how well a translator might work (charitable view) or WEBR is using WCBS's data to test their encoders without permission (evil view).


----------



## ayoldguy1

So I turned on channel 9.1 a few days ago (Jets game) and found my audio coming out of my front left speaker only. I hit display on my AVR, said 2.0 channels. This is the only audio source that this is happening - I have normal audio from every other TV channel, DVD, etc.

Is there a known problem with 9.1 in NYC? I'm in Flushing, Queens, BTW, around 9-10 mi from ESB.


Thanks


----------



## TravKoolBreeze

Does anyone understand what the DD Service Designation means from the FCC. The reason I ask is that it seems WMBC is strong tonight even with all this bad weather and was wondering if their construction permit for TS has something to do with it.


----------



## Trip in VA

DD = DTS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distrib...mission_system 


- Trip


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ayoldguy1* /forum/post/17072090
> 
> 
> So I turned on channel 9.1 a few days ago (Jets game) and found my audio coming out of my front left speaker only. I hit display on my AVR, said 2.0 channels. This is the only audio source that this is happening - I have normal audio from every other TV channel, DVD, etc.



My TV "remembers" the last SAP setting for individual channels.


Sometimes, when the main audio is 5.1 surround, the SAP carries a plain stereo or even mono version of the English soundtrack.


Did you check the SAP setting on channel 9?


----------



## Cr00zng

The OTA sounds good and relatively inexpensive; especially when compared to the cost of HT. My service is currently Cablevision and I am thinking about adding the OTA for local channels. The local channel to me means New York City channels despite of living in CT, 40 miles East (about) from downtown Manhattan.


I've checked the AntennaWeb site and it seems that only the public channels from Long Island, such as WLIW, WFTY, etc, are available as digital channels at my location. It didn't even show any channels from CT. I was looking for ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX from NYC and not some channel that I didn't even know existed. Does anyone know how accurate the AntennaWeb prediction for receiving digital channels?


It probably means nothing for digital broadcast, but I've used to receive the NYC channels OTA with analog signal. Did anyone had experience with receiving NYC digital channels in CT? Or anyone would guess if it is worth considering OTA in CT for NYC channels?

TIA...


Cr00zng


----------



## Trip in VA

Antennaweb is known for being very conservative. Try putting your location into TVFool.com and you'll likely get a more accurate representation of available channels.


- Trip


----------



## Cr00zng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17091837
> 
> 
> Antennaweb is known for being very conservative. Try putting your location into TVFool.com and you'll likely get a more accurate representation of available channels.
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip...

The TVFool site shows that the ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC station towers are 33.1 miles from my location; it's probably the same tower.


The ERP for the tower, effective adjusted for terrain:
WABC: Max 11.690 kW, Effective Max 11.690 kW
WCBS: Max 284.000 kW, Effective Max 284.000 kW
WNBC: Max 200.200 kW, Effective Max 200.200 kW
WFOX: Max 500.000 kW, Effective Max 500.000 kW


Admittedly, I don't have much of a clue as to what ERP means just what it stands for, but it looks good. Since all NYC stations are in exactly the same direction, Azimuth: 227 degrees Compass: 240 degrees, a unidirectional antenna would work just fine. The only caveat is that I could pull in WFSB of Hartford as well, ERP: 1000.000 kW and effective ERP: 500.000 kW. The direction from my location is Azimuth: 38 degrees Compass: 51 degrees. Since the footbal season is about the start, watching NE Patriots in HD would be nice. My current cable package does not have HD for the WFSB, just regular programming.


Would an omnidirectional antenna be able to pull in the NYC and Hartford, CT channels as well, or I would need two antennas? My old antenna used receive FM radio signals as well. Will the HD antenna do the same?

TIA...


Cr00zng


----------



## Trip in VA

You'll likely be unable to receive WFSB. It is on channel 33, the same channel used by WCBS. An omni directional antenna would likely result in an inability to watch either one. I recommend using a directional antenna aimed at New York.


Perhaps someone in the area could suggest a specific model that works best in the area.


- Trip


----------



## hancox

Cr00zng - post your zipcode, I can likely help


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, as of right now, 8:34 a.m., Monday morning, I'm receiving a decent signal from WNJU (36).


Don't know if this means that the station has finally gotten the interim 750 kW facility on ESB going, or - as in the past, when the West Orange stick goes dark, I then can receive the DTS signal from 4TS.


----------



## reddice

With me when the West Orange site goes dark I can't receive squat from the 4TS site.


----------



## AloEuro

Last Sunday at night ch.47Telemundo was off the air, no broadcast, nada. I double

check with ch.36, it always transfers automatically into 47-1, but last night it stayed at

36-1 with No Signal dialog box.

Today for brief time I checked it, for 480i most beautiful sharp PQ. In case you wanted to know many shows have English subtitles, the new shows for 12hearts all have cc3ors2, I usually turn it on midway thru after the strip'se,pole dancing of beach bunnies. Decisiones are really good,alo.


----------



## reddice

I am now getting channel 47 RF 36 the same way I get channels 2, 5, 7, 9 and 13. In the low to high 60's to low 70's. When it was on West Orange I was getting it in the 90's. I still get that cruddy WFME in the mid 90's. This is what still don't get. Channel 47 is watchable but even with there over 700 kw of power I still don't get is as when it was in New Jersey three times the difference with less power. It still just boggles my mind.


----------



## SnellKrell

What makes you think your "90's" reception of WNJU was due to the West Orange transmitter and not 4TS? The answer is, you don't!!!!


The 750kW facility on ESB in only at 1141', the lower portion of the Mooring Mast, and is meant only as a temporary set up until the new non-directional, 650kW/1443', transmitter with an antenna near the top of the Antenna Mast is ready.


----------



## StudioTech

Speaking of WNJU, a few days ago they were doing stretch-o-vision on some of their local programs and promos.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17097621
> 
> 
> Speaking of WNJU, a few days ago they were doing stretch-o-vision on some of their local programs and promos.



Say it ain't so. I HATE stretch-o-vision. I have a 16:9 widescreen TV and I want to see programs at their correct aspect radio's. If it is 4:3 then I want pillar bars not short fat oval faces and circles.


----------



## Trip in VA

You know, a lot of this gear runs on Windows, and it's well known to sometimes reset and come back up in strange modes.


Just because you saw stretch-o-vision doesn't mean it's here to stay or even intentional.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech

Well this was the first time I'd ever seen it happen and as I said, it was only on a couple of local programs and promos. It never touched anything on the network. It could very well have been a glitch somewhere. We'll continue to watch.


----------



## AloEuro

The other day I have connected only outdoor roof Ant. to the box, 3.2mileTVFool to

ESB, it gave max. signal strength uninterupted high pitch other boxes would read at 100%, for most ch,lost Ion31- and 39 gained 50-1.2.3


----------



## Cr00zng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/17093418
> 
> 
> Cr00zng - post your zipcode, I can likely help



Thanks in advance Hancox...


My ZIP code is 06906, but according to tvfool.com website, it's fat chance in hell I can receive the Hartford (WFSB) CBS station at my location. The NYC channels would be OK.


Since my primary reason was to get the Hartford channel, I've got to find another primary reason. Is the OTA PQ that much better when compared to Cablevision's HD? I understand that the cable gives me compressed HD pictures and the OTA PQ is better, just don't know if the magnitude of difference would be worth for it. Keep in mind that I am not planning to discontinue my cable service that include Internet and phone service as well.


The antenna should pickup radio signals, AM and FM as well. At least my previous antenna that I've taken down already was able to do that. I don't see why the new antenna wouldn't do it as well. Anyone can confirm either way?


My choice of antenna is DB8 Multidirectional HDTV Antenna :











The antenna will be on the top of my house.

TIA...


Cr00zng


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Croozng


Don't plan on the DB8 bringing in AM or FM (well, maybe a little).


Also, channels 7, 11, & 13 will be weak with it.


----------



## Cr00zng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17119914
> 
> 
> Croozng
> 
> Don't plan on the DB8 bringing in AM or FM (well, maybe a little).
> 
> Also, channels 7, 11, & 13 will be weak with it.



Thanks...

So, it's no radio signals and some of the channels will be weak. Do you have a suggestion for an antenna that would be better than the DB8? Maybe the directional antenna would be better? I don't know...

TIA...


Cr00zng


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cr00zng* /forum/post/17118795
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance Hancox...
> 
> 
> My ZIP code is 06906, but according to tvfool.com website, it's fat chance in hell I can receive the Hartford (WFSB) CBS station at my location. The NYC channels would be OK.
> 
> 
> Since my primary reason was to get the Hartford channel, I've got to find another primary reason. Is the OTA PQ that much better when compared to Cablevision's HD? I understand that the cable gives me compressed HD pictures and the OTA PQ is better, just don't know if the magnitude of difference would be worth for it. Keep in mind that I am not planning to discontinue my cable service that include Internet and phone service as well.
> 
> 
> The antenna should pickup radio signals, AM and FM as well. At least my previous antenna that I've taken down already was able to do that. I don't see why the new antenna wouldn't do it as well. Anyone can confirm either way?
> 
> 
> My choice of antenna is DB8 Multidirectional HDTV Antenna :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The antenna will be on the top of my house.
> 
> TIA...
> 
> 
> Cr00zng




In order:


1) WFSB is a very hard get from nearly anywhere in Fairfield County, much less Stamford. I'm at elevation (600' +) in Monroe, and can't get a sniff of it. Their transmitter location isn't conducive to our area getting it.


2) From what I've seen/read about CVC's HD, I would think it's NOT worth it for the OTA networks, strictly as a replacement. Most of the compression seen on those systems is on cable-only networks, not the broadcast ones.


3) AM and FM won't be helped all that much here, not worth it for that purpose.


4) As for the DB8 - it's a great UHF antenna, but doesn't pick up high VHF that well (my brother-in-law has one, and was a "victim" of a similar switch to channel 7 by a Boston station). It will serve you well for 14 and above, but 7 is asking a lot of any UHF antenna.


If it were me, I'd suggest a Winegard HD 8200U , or similar, to get VHF, UHF, and FM. AM is best served by a long wire, if not something more exotic. Either way - it's not going to come from the same solution.


Good luck!


----------



## nycdigital09

last night we had a harvest moon, it was affecting tv reception to say the least, did anybody notice fox 5 rf 44, go off the air by midnight. also there was alot skip, i was getting reception of wedw rf 49 pbs station from bridigeport ct. with indoor antenna, im on ground floor of a house.


----------



## AloEuro

Lately ch.68Telefutura combo of 41Univision late night are off of the air, and as

'nycdigital09' has said fox5 also is off the air, while the second stream of 9 runs, I suppose that they ran high electricity bill, maybe Nielsen has something to do with it.


----------



## SnellKrell

More than likely there was extensive work being done on the ESB's Antenna Mast.


With the need of stations staying on the air and tourists using the Observation Decks, work can only be done between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m. Therefore, that's when stations go dark!


----------



## LenL

The CM 4228 is considered a UHF antenna and I am getting VHF 7 just fine from 30 miles out. I can also get VHF PBS 8 (58.1). I am also now getting PBS 13 with some break up.


It has a CM 7777 preamp attached and is roof mounted.


Lots of things impact reception but I am proof that some one not close to NY City can get VHF TV with an antenna that is regarded as a UHF antenna!


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel Master has replaced the CM 4228 with the CM 4228HD which specifically claims: Reception Range High VHF: Channels 7 thru 13 up to 45 miles.


----------



## nycdigital09

is wnjb channel 8 out of new brunswick ever going to move to 4 times square or are they staying in nj . i can't receive any of their stations even with roof top antenna too much multi path to negotiate. 51.1 breaks up alot even with 7775 preamp attached to a uhf yagi. fortunate i can get wedw 49.1 out of ct.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNJB, channel 8 has canceled its plans to move to the Conde Nast Building, 4TS!


----------



## Cr00zng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hancox* /forum/post/17121645
> 
> 
> In order:
> 
> 
> 1) WFSB is a very hard get from nearly anywhere in Fairfield County, much less Stamford. I'm at elevation (600' +) in Monroe, and can't get a sniff of it. Their transmitter location isn't conducive to our area getting it.
> 
> 
> 2) From what I've seen/read about CVC's HD, I would think it's NOT worth it for the OTA networks, strictly as a replacement. Most of the compression seen on those systems is on cable-only networks, not the broadcast ones.
> 
> 
> 3) AM and FM won't be helped all that much here, not worth it for that purpose.
> 
> 
> 4) As for the DB8 - it's a great UHF antenna, but doesn't pick up high VHF that well (my brother-in-law has one, and was a "victim" of a similar switch to channel 7 by a Boston station). It will serve you well for 14 and above, but 7 is asking a lot of any UHF antenna.
> 
> 
> If it were me, I'd suggest a Winegard HD 8200U , or similar, to get VHF, UHF, and FM. AM is best served by a long wire, if not something more exotic. Either way - it's not going to come from the same solution.
> 
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks Hancox...


I am at elevation ~100 feet, it even puts in to question getting the NYC channels. To the direction of the NYC stations, there's a rather large hill about 200 feet from my house at about the same hight. With the roof antenna, I could probably receive the NYC channels, but there's no underlying reason to do so. Especially when I can get the same broadcast with my cable that I didn't intend to cancel anyway.


The antenna that you've suggested is huge, about 14'x10', I'll probably end up putting an FM antenna in to the attic and be done with it. I may try OTA in the future if I move, but not where I live now.

Thanks for your help,


Cr00zng


----------



## dagger666

what happpned to channel 11, it's been hit or miss for over a month now. Comes in sometimes and always breaks up while 7 has been no go since switch over mostly. 7 has been nothing also, been on and off for few weeks but went dead same time 11 started to act funny.


----------



## SnellKrell

11's reception for me has been consistent since the transition.


----------



## dagger666

It was OK for a few month after i played with my antenna but 11 been crazy since July and what is going on with Fox tonight. Channel 5 and 5-1 are dead but both are OK on channel 9 and 9-1. This is the first time channel 5 which has been the strongest station has gone dead for me, nothing the meter reads 0. Seams to have started after 6 PM.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17123226
> 
> 
> Channel Master has replaced the CM 4228 with the CM 4228HD which specifically claims: Reception Range High VHF: Channels 7 thru 13 up to 45 miles.



Channel Master CM-4228HD Outdoor 8-bay HDTV/UHF Antenna, Suburban Rated, Large Directional, Designed and tested to bring you high quality HDTV and UHF reception. Reception Range High VHF Channels 7 thru 13 up to 45 miles, Reception Range UHF Channels 14 thru 69 up to 60 miles.


If VHF HI is limited in range much less than UHF then why did 7, 11 and 13 move back to VHF, seams a bone head move to me.


----------



## martianpete

Ehhh… is everyone missing 5.1 FOX today or is it just me? I can't re-program it in or anything. Anyone else? Anyone know what's going on?


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> ...Reception Range High VHF Channels 7 thru 13 up to 45 miles, Reception Range UHF Channels 14 thru 69 up to 60 miles.
> 
> 
> If VHF HI is limited in range much less than UHF then why did 7, 11 and 13 move back to VHF, seams a bone head move to me.



VHF is not limited in range, that antenna is limited in VHF reception.

As LenL stated earlier, the 4228 is a UHF antenna design that will also receive VHF - to a point. This has always been the case, but with the revised design (4228HD) the mfgr has decided to capitalize on the VHF performance by including it in the specs.


VHF supposedly carries much further on a lower power transmission than does a UHF signal. (Although you'd never know it considering all the problems with 7, 11 & 13 on this thread!) So the reason for the move is a lower electric bill!


----------



## Knivezz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *martianpete* /forum/post/17129094
> 
> 
> Ehhh is everyone missing 5.1 FOX today or is it just me? I can't re-program it in or anything. Anyone else? Anyone know what's going on?




I'm having the same problem, I thought it was my TV. Anyone else not see 5.1? or 5.2 for that matter?


----------



## herzzreh

damn! I spent hours tinkering with the antenna tonight, both 5 and 9 are dead for me. Turns out, I'm not the only one...


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *herzzreh* /forum/post/17129514
> 
> 
> damn! I spent hours tinkering with the antenna tonight, both 5 and 9 are dead for me. Turns out, I'm not the only one...



As of 9AM, I'm getting them fine. 5.1 still my strongest signal from day 1, and 9.1 still the same at 50%


----------



## herzzreh

What irks me is that I get 2 at a 100% while 4, 7 and 11 linger around 75% or so.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *herzzreh* /forum/post/17130168
> 
> 
> What irks me is that I get 2 at a 100% while 4, 7 and 11 linger around 75% or so.



Funny, its the opposite for me. 2,4,11 cuts out. 7 is

ok.


----------



## LenL

Yup!


l lost it for a few hours yesterday evening too! Not sure if it was due to atmospheric issues or work being done but it was definitely gone for me. It is back this AM!


----------



## reddice

The thing is that on my TV I was getting channel 5 in the mid 80's but the physical channel said 44 but the virtual channel said N/A which it says that if it can't lock in a signal. I checked it at 11 PM and it was fine again. Getting it back in the mid 70's again. Have not checked it today but it should be fine.


----------



## herzzreh

Mine would intermittenly show signal in 70s but no video, signal in 60s with video or no signal at all. weird.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *herzzreh* /forum/post/17130168
> 
> 
> What irks me is that I get 2 at a 100% while 4, 7 and 11 linger around 75% or so.



"Irks" you????


Many, including me, would give so much to be so blessed!


I don't understand your complaint.


Does a reading of 75% prevent you from receiving a steady, quality signal?


----------



## herzzreh

Mine would intermittenly show signal in 70s but no video, signal in 60s with video or no signal at all. weird.


----------



## dagger666

at sunday 6:41 Pm 5 is back but breaks up a lot. The single is as strong as ever so something is going on at their broadcast antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

Don't discount atmospherics for altering your reception!


I haven't noticed any change in my reception of the station.


----------



## herzzreh

Ugh... 31 was coming in nice and strong, now it peaks at 30% but lingers around 20%. No picture, no sound.


----------



## nycdigital09

you need to rescan your box to get fox5, in my case i have the zenith dt9001 digital box (veru good btw) i edited or deleted channel 5.1. there is 5.1 does not come in and 5.1 that works great.

i


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17131457
> 
> 
> "Irks" you????
> 
> 
> Many, including me, would give so much to be so blessed!
> 
> 
> I don't understand your complaint.
> 
> 
> Does a reading of 75% prevent you from receiving a steady, quality signal?



Ya my aunt feels blessed. She gets every station with 77% or better NO BREAK UPs except channel 39 which is all INFOMERCIALS. When I installed the new dtvpal she was breaking up on channel 11. SO I moved the antenna. to a different wall. She now 11 is up to 85% and 39 went to under 60% with breakups. So I said it is either 11 or 39. No contest 11 stayed.


She was wondering why the HSN is not on digital where we are. Only analog. I guess it is out of range? She likes HSN.


Now she wonders how she ever watched analog.


I am really happy for her.


----------



## Trip in VA

HSN is not yet operating digitally.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17135169
> 
> 
> HSN is not yet operating digitally.
> 
> 
> - Trip



soon? Wonder why not. They make alot of money. Off the TV


----------



## Rudmeister

Guys,


I have looked thru this and other threads as well as trying google but I cannot find a definitive answer. I am hoping someone here can help. I literally want to cut out cable(Comcast) and go solely OTA. I had done it a few years ago when VOOM went bust but when I had the roof done the existing antenna was torn down and discarded. Each tv has a dedicated HTPC to use as both tuner and dvr as well as connecting to a 5tb raid box for movies, pics, and music. I am trying to find out the best outdoor antenna for my situation. I live in Port Reading in Middlesex county and have no large buildings near me. I definitely need the major stations and the secondary stations would be a plus if possible. Antenneweb results are shown below.


yellow vhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK, NJ 60° 17.9 13

yellow uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON, NJ 18° 20.4 18

yellow uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 ION NEW YORK, NY 60° 17.9 31

yellow vhf WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK, NJ 58° 18.3 8

yellow vhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.1 7

yellow uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 33

yellow uhf WNJU-DT 47.1 TEL LINDEN, NJ 60° 17.9 36

yellow uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 28

yellow uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON, NJ 60° 17.9 40

yellow uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS, NJ 60° 17.9 38

yellow uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK, NJ 60° 17.9 30

yellow vhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 11

yellow uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK, NY 60° 17.9 44

green uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ 18° 20.4 51

red uhf WFME-DT 66.1 REL WEST MILFORD, NJ 9° 15.1 29

red uhf WPXO-LP 34 ION EAST ORANGE, NJ 11° 16.0 34

red uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK, NY 72° 15.9 24

red uhf WSAH-DT 43.1 SAH BRIDGEPORT, CT 60° 17.9 42

blue uhf WMBQ-CA 46 MNT MANHATTAN, NY 61° 18.0 46

violet uhf WEBR-CA 17 IND MANHATTAN, NY 60° 17.9 17

violet uhf WNJT-DT 43.1 PBS TRENTON, NJ 243° 30.9 43


I appreciate any insight on this.


----------



## SnellKrell

Sorry, can't help you with an antenna recommendation, but what I can do for you is to heartily suggest that you don't walk, but run quickly away from antennaweb.


The information is incredibly old and out of date.


For example, WNET, WPXN and WABC all broadcast from the Empire State Building and antennaweb shows different locations. The site is absurd!


You would be better served by using tvfool.com


Start off with good information and then the antenna choice.


----------



## Trip in VA

Anyone seeing signal on 32 or 35?


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17135940
> 
> 
> soon? Wonder why not. They make alot of money. Off the TV



hsn does make money off OTA but most of money comes from cable and satellite. they know how viewers see them by having different 800 ordering numbers. someone on fios would see a different 800 order phone number than someone watching on directv and another 800 number on OTA.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17145139
> 
> 
> Anyone seeing signal on 32 or 35?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yes, 32 and 35 - analogue, same programming.


----------



## Trip in VA

Alright, thanks. They filed license apps for digital signals on 32 and 35 yesterday.


- Trip


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17143244
> 
> 
> Sorry, can't help you with an antenna recommendation, but what I can do for you is to heartily suggest that you don't walk, but run quickly away from antennaweb.
> 
> 
> The information is incredibly old and out of date.
> 
> 
> For example, WNET, WPXN and WABC all broadcast from the Empire State Building and antennaweb shows different locations. The site is absurd!
> 
> 
> You would be better served my using tvfool.com
> 
> 
> Start off with good information and then the antenna choice.


*DITTO!!!*


And on top of that they're overly pessimistic in their predictions, and don't even show you half of what you may have access to!


I honestly think it's a fix, just so everyone gives up & goes for pay TV. (Just like the lowered power constraints.)


Post your TV Fool to start.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17145713
> 
> 
> Yes, 32 and 35 - analogue, same programming.



What type of programing?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rudmeister* /forum/post/17142977
> 
> 
> Guys,
> 
> 
> I have looked thru this and other threads as well as trying google but I cannot find a definitive answer. I am hoping someone here can help. I literally want to cut out cable(Comcast) and go solely OTA. I had done it a few years ago when VOOM went bust but when I had the roof done the existing antenna was torn down and discarded. Each tv has a dedicated HTPC to use as both tuner and dvr as well as connecting to a 5tb raid box for movies, pics, and music. I am trying to find out the best outdoor antenna for my situation. I live in Port Reading in Middlesex county and have no large buildings near me. I definitely need the major stations and the secondary stations would be a plus if possible. Antenneweb results are shown below.
> 
> 
> yellow vhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK, NJ 60° 17.9 13
> 
> yellow uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON, NJ 18° 20.4 18
> 
> yellow uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 ION NEW YORK, NY 60° 17.9 31
> 
> yellow vhf WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK, NJ 58° 18.3 8
> 
> yellow vhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.1 7
> 
> yellow uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 33
> 
> yellow uhf WNJU-DT 47.1 TEL LINDEN, NJ 60° 17.9 36
> 
> yellow uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 28
> 
> yellow uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON, NJ 60° 17.9 40
> 
> yellow uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS, NJ 60° 17.9 38
> 
> yellow uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK, NJ 60° 17.9 30
> 
> yellow vhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 11
> 
> yellow uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK, NY 60° 17.9 44
> 
> green uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ 18° 20.4 51
> 
> red uhf WFME-DT 66.1 REL WEST MILFORD, NJ 9° 15.1 29
> 
> red uhf WPXO-LP 34 ION EAST ORANGE, NJ 11° 16.0 34
> 
> red uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK, NY 72° 15.9 24
> 
> red uhf WSAH-DT 43.1 SAH BRIDGEPORT, CT 60° 17.9 42
> 
> blue uhf WMBQ-CA 46 MNT MANHATTAN, NY 61° 18.0 46
> 
> violet uhf WEBR-CA 17 IND MANHATTAN, NY 60° 17.9 17
> 
> violet uhf WNJT-DT 43.1 PBS TRENTON, NJ 243° 30.9 43
> 
> 
> I appreciate any insight on this.



What is a raid box ?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rudmeister* /forum/post/17142977
> 
> 
> Guys,
> 
> 
> I have looked thru this and other threads as well as trying google but I cannot find a definitive answer. I am hoping someone here can help. I literally want to cut out cable(Comcast) and go solely OTA. I had done it a few years ago when VOOM went bust but when I had the roof done the existing antenna was torn down and discarded. Each tv has a dedicated HTPC to use as both tuner and dvr as well as connecting to a 5tb raid box for movies, pics, and music. I am trying to find out the best outdoor antenna for my situation. I live in Port Reading in Middlesex county and have no large buildings near me. I definitely need the major stations and the secondary stations would be a plus if possible. Antenneweb results are shown below.
> 
> 
> yellow vhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK, NJ 60° 17.9 13
> 
> yellow uhf WMBC-DT 63.1 IND NEWTON, NJ 18° 20.4 18
> 
> yellow uhf WPXN-DT 31.1 ION NEW YORK, NY 60° 17.9 31
> 
> yellow vhf WNJB-DT 8.1 PBS NEW BRUNSWICK, NJ 58° 18.3 8
> 
> yellow vhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.1 7
> 
> yellow uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 33
> 
> yellow uhf WNJU-DT 47.1 TEL LINDEN, NJ 60° 17.9 36
> 
> yellow uhf WNBC-DT 4.1 NBC NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 28
> 
> yellow uhf WXTV-DT 41.1 UNI PATERSON, NJ 60° 17.9 40
> 
> yellow uhf WWOR-DT 9.1 MNT SECAUCUS, NJ 60° 17.9 38
> 
> yellow uhf WFUT-DT 68.1 TFA NEWARK, NJ 60° 17.9 30
> 
> yellow vhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK, NY 63° 15.2 11
> 
> yellow uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK, NY 60° 17.9 44
> 
> green uhf WNJN-DT 51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR, NJ 18° 20.4 51
> 
> red uhf WFME-DT 66.1 REL WEST MILFORD, NJ 9° 15.1 29
> 
> red uhf WPXO-LP 34 ION EAST ORANGE, NJ 11° 16.0 34
> 
> red uhf WNYE-DT 25.1 IND NEW YORK, NY 72° 15.9 24
> 
> red uhf WSAH-DT 43.1 SAH BRIDGEPORT, CT 60° 17.9 42
> 
> blue uhf WMBQ-CA 46 MNT MANHATTAN, NY 61° 18.0 46
> 
> violet uhf WEBR-CA 17 IND MANHATTAN, NY 60° 17.9 17
> 
> violet uhf WNJT-DT 43.1 PBS TRENTON, NJ 243° 30.9 43
> 
> 
> I appreciate any insight on this.



Here is the Best indoor antenna list and I am sure someone here can provide an outdoor list.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17153453
> 
> 
> What type of programing?



It appears to be Public Access programming.


By the way, I had mentioned that the programming on 32 and 35 is identical.


The only difference is that there's no audio on Channel 35!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17153575
> 
> 
> It appears to be Public Access programming.
> 
> 
> By the way, I had mentioned that the programming on 32 and 35 is identical.
> 
> 
> The only difference is that there's no audio on Channel 35!



Public access as in Infomercials or as in channel 13 type programing. Coffee hasn't kicked in yet


----------



## SnellKrell

Neither - Infomercials or 13 are really Public Access.


Public Access is where if you want to talk about issues or special interests, be a psychic, sing songs, etc., that's what it is.


Literally, giving the public access to television!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17153761
> 
> 
> Neither - Infomercials or 13 are really Public Access.
> 
> 
> Public Access is where if you want to talk about issues or special interests, be a psychic, sing songs, etc., that's what it is.
> 
> 
> Literally, giving the public access to television!



Oh ya we used to call those STUPID SoapBox shows. In England/London there is one park where every Sunday or once a month. I forget. You bring your own Soapbox and can preach what you like. For example if SnellKrell didn't return my water hose I can preach a hate for SnellKrell


But do it on any other day. You get arrested


----------



## SnellKrell

It's Hyde Park - Speaker's Corner!


----------



## peterlee

What happened with the OTA channels in NYC recently? I used to get strong signals - ranging from 70 to 100% on my Tivo - for pretty much every station until about two weeks ago. Then, about 10 days ago, signal strength plummeted across the board. The change literally happened overnight. Now, opening a window next to my antenna is the the only way to get signal strengths that are in the ballpark of where I used to get them with the window shut. Was there a change to the transmitters recently? And did some stations move their transmitters to a different location?


----------



## SnellKrell

Atmospherics are doing there thing!


Signals go down or off many evenings/mornings between 1 a.m. and 5 to allow extensive

work to be done on the antenna mast.


The only major station change has been WNJU (Channel 36) using an interim facility on the ESB, replacing the station's DTS signals from West Orange, NJ and 4TS.


----------



## Trip in VA

If all your stations did it at once, is it possible something in your antenna failed?


- Trip


----------



## peterlee

I doubt it's antenna failure, my antenna is just $10 unamplified rabbit ears, there's literally nothing that could fail. I also swapped in a Terk amplified antenna and the result is the same, the signal strengths are dramatically reduced from where they were a short time ago.


I also have a hard time believing it's atmospheric variation. The drop is too dramatic and has lasted too long. The reduced signal strengths aren't just during the overnight hours (I have noticed Fox 5 would shut off completely on some nights), it's 24/7 now. And has been going on for 10 days now. Surely if it's weather, there would have been some fluctuation in the signal strengths during the last week and a half. But it seems to have settled at these reduced levels across the board. That's why I wonder if work has been done on the tower recently that dramatically reduced or changed the transmitters (I think all the major broadcast stations are on the Empire State Building, correct me if I'm wrong).


----------



## SnellKrell

Rabbit ears?


Does it have a UHF loop or other element for this band?


----------



## peterlee

Yes, there is a UHF loop. These rabbit ears was the antenna that was providing 70-100% signal strengths on all channels - CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, CW, UPN, PBS 13, etc. with my Tivo. I'd say ABC, CW and PBS were my strongest signals, they were hitting 97-100%. CBS and NBC were the slightly lower in the 80s and Fox was the weakest in the upper 60% range but still rock solid, no breakup at all. It was great, there was no reason for me to get an expensive antenna because the rabbit ears were providing excellent, stable reception. That's why the recent drop has been so noticeable to me. Now, the only way I can get any channel in the 70% range is to open a window. If the window is closed, lower 60% is the max and there is a lot of fluctuation and dips, which of course produces pixellation and audio drops.


----------



## SnellKrell

The reason I mentioned atmospherics is that over the past few weeks, I've experienced

some wide variations in reception.


Specifically, channel 7, which had been borderline - at times 40 - 50% is now hitting 70%+. Channel 28, today has been breaking up!


Channel 13 all of a sudden is my strongest Hi-V.


It just keeps changing!


----------



## peterlee

Well, what do you know. I just had two OTA recordings finish up moment ago so now that the Tivo is free, I tested the signal strength meter again. It looks like the signal strengths have returned to their former high levels even with the window shut! I literally tested this last night around this time as well as several other times earlier this week and always found dramatically reduced levels.


I guess atmospheric conditions does seem the most plausible cause. I wouldn't have thought an altered atmospheric state would have lasted as long as 10 days but I guess so. BTW, the Tivo seems to have an excellent tuner. The tuner in my TV, which is a first generation Sony HDTV CRT that's 8 or 9 years old, is quite poor at picking up signals, even with an amplified, directional antenna. Tuners have improved tremendously since then, as the Tivo makes clear.


Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## SnellKrell

Enjoy it while it lasts!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17157580
> 
> 
> The only major station change has been WNJU (Channel 36) using an interim facility on the ESB, replacing the station's DTS signals from West Orange, NJ and 4TS.



The thing is that WNJU use to be my strongest channel when it was in West Orange. Now that it is on the ESB, higher up with more power and closer it is much weaker. It keeps breaking up for a second and dips in the high 50's. Makes no sense how something closer is weaker than something further away.


----------



## kickass69

Well oddly enough I was able to receive WNYE for the first time today from 35 miles out with an RCA ANT525 UHF/VHF/FM indoor antenna. Other than that still no 7, 11, 13, WFME, WPXN, WNJU, Fox 5 or NJN.


----------



## LenL

Lots of luck with an indoor antenna from that far out and your location!


I am about 5 or 6 miles closer than you in Randolph with a CM4228 and CM 7777 preamp on my chimney outside and I can get (including sub channels):


2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 25.1 68.1 with little to no break up. Usually showing 80-90% signal.


7.1, 50.1 I can get with some occasional breakup. Usually 70-80% signal.


9.1, 11.1, 13.1, 33.1, 58.1 I can get but with annoying breakup and often drop outs. Usually 50-65% signal.


----------



## johnosolis

A new broadcast channel has just appeared on my set:


11.3 "Estrlla" ("estrella" is "star" in Spanish).


It wasn't there yesterday.


It's showing ribald comedy sketches in Spanish that seem to be Mexican in origin.


In the lower right-hand corner is a logo that seems to be star-shaped and uses the same colors as the "Azteca" logo that can be seen on channel 39-1. Azteca is a Mexican channel, maybe this is too.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/17176969
> 
> 
> A new broadcast channel has just appeared on my set:
> 
> 
> 11.3 "Estrlla" ("estrella" is "star" in Spanish).
> 
> 
> It wasn't there yesterday.
> 
> 
> It's showing ribald comedy sketches in Spanish that seem to be Mexican in origin.
> 
> 
> In the lower right-hand corner is a logo that seems to be star-shaped and uses the same colors as the "Azteca" logo that can be seen on channel 39-1. Azteca is a Mexican channel, maybe this is too.



We get it too and hope they start with English speaking stations. Since we can not speak Spanish. If they use up all of WPIX 11 subchannels that means less or no English stations.


----------



## Trip in VA

I keep wondering what the deal is with WPIX getting Estrella. I thought this was why Liberman bought WASA-LD 25, was to put Estrella TV on it.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Tribune Broadcasting is in such financial trouble, its stations will take dollars, pesos -

whatever!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17180065
> 
> 
> I keep wondering what the deal is with WPIX getting Estrella. I thought this was why Liberman bought WASA-LD 25, was to put Estrella TV on it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



We get more spanish stations now then English . LOL and the CC 3 is not showing english subtitles at all. Could be the box we have does not work right? I put it to CC3 and nothing


----------



## pantrychef

Now that WPIX is carrying Estrella TV, does that mean the owner will let the station authorization lapse?

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art..._Manhattan.php 


The article is also notable for what is not mentioned: Is LATV going away October 1st?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/17180547
> 
> 
> Now that WPIX is carrying Estrella TV, does that mean the owner will let the station authorization lapse?
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art..._Manhattan.php
> 
> 
> The article is also notable for what is not mentioned: Is LATV going away October 1st?



I still do not know why there is not one 24/7 movie station. With Ads


----------



## StudioTech

The one thing that I liked when they added LATV last year was that it was bi-lingual (actually it was majority English speaking). They even had a show that made fun of some of the Spanish language shows that were out there, but then they slowly shifted to another all-Spanish channel. Basically becoming somewhat of what they used to make fun of.


----------



## jpru34

I saw the same "Jack Lalane Powerjuicer" infommercial in spanish being broadcast on 9 different channels (including sub-channels of course) this morning. What a waste of bandwith. I wish the FCC would force channels to offer half-decent programming.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/17182989
> 
> 
> I saw the same "Jack Lalane Powerjuicer" infommercial in spanish being broadcast on 9 different channels (including sub-channels of course) this morning. What a waste of bandwith. I wish the FCC would force channels to offer half-decent programming.



Man I hate anti-juicers lol


----------



## SnellKrell

"I wish the FCC would force channels to offer half-decent programming."


Do you really want the government to determine what programming is decent or not?


----------



## jpru34

Good point Snell. I wouldn't want them to tinker with "The Jerry Springer Show" or any of the other quality shows currently on the air.


----------



## reddice

Even though I have problems getting channel 11 just what we need, another cruddy 480i channel taking up bandwidth and making the main 1080i channel look worse.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17184498
> 
> 
> Even though I have problems getting channel 11 just what we need, another cruddy 480i channel taking up bandwidth and making the main 1080i channel look worse.



I only care about WPIX for 2 reasons this year:


1) Giants vs Denver game Thanksgiving night simulcast from NFLNetwork


2) Jet vs Bills game the next week ( Thu night ) simulcast from NFL Network


There was also a time they had some good Met games, but not this year obviously.


----------



## dagger666

What i found interesting was several weeks ago NBC was airing a prime time football game and moved all the regular programing to the sub channel. This way if you didn't care about the football you could still see their regular lineup. Stupid CBS should have done that Monday night when the US open ran over, who cares about tennis.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/17190336
> 
> 
> What i found interesting was several weeks ago NBC was airing a prime time football game and moved all the regular programing to the sub channel. This way if you didn't care about the football you could still see their regular lineup. Stupid CBS should have done that Monday night when the US open ran over, who cares about tennis.



Are you talking about a nationally televised game or a locally produced game?

I remember the Giants were on Ch4, but it was only a locally televised preseason game shown only in NYC, so it made sense to shift the regular prime time schedule to the subchannel.

The US Open on the other hand is a nationally televised event.


----------



## johninbricknj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/17190336
> 
> 
> What i found interesting was several weeks ago NBC was airing a prime time football game and moved all the regular programing to the sub channel. This way if you didn't care about the football you could still see their regular lineup. Stupid CBS should have done that Monday night when the US open ran over, who cares about tennis.



Correct me if I'm wrong, CBS OTA doesn't have sub channels like NBC does.


----------



## kickass69

CBS chose to not have any because they didn't want to deteriorate the picture quality of their main signals for subchannels. Explains why they got the best picture out of any NYC OTA station.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/17192044
> 
> 
> CBS chose to not have any because they didn't want to deteriorate the picture quality of their main signals for subchannels. Explains why they got the best picture out of any NYC OTA station.



That is a lame A_ _ excuse and total bull fritters. NBC has sub channels and their HD feed is same quality as CBS as with all the other stations using their sub channels. CBS is just to cheap or doesn't have anything worth broadcasting right now but I'm guessing by the end of next year they will be using all 5 sub stations like everyone else. I'm sure PBS increased their revenues using all 5 channels and rest will follow just going to take time for everyone to get into the grove.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/17192044
> 
> 
> CBS chose to not have any because they didn't want to deteriorate the picture quality of their main signals for subchannels. Explains why they got the best picture out of any NYC OTA station.



You're absolutely right!!!


Anyone with a discerning eye or with a knowledge of the allocation of bandwidth agrees with you.


If some cannot see or understand the diminution of quality when subchannels are used, so be it - they are blissful!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/17193795
> 
> 
> CBS is just to cheap or doesn't have anything worth broadcasting right now but I'm guessing by the end of next year they will be using all 5 sub stations like everyone else.



First, there's no limit to the amount of subchannels a station can have. WFME in New Jersey has 10 (yes, I said ten) though most of them are audio only.


2nd, it's not gonna happen as far as the CBS O&O's are concerned.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17194541
> 
> 
> First, there's no limit to the amount of subchannels a station can have. WFME in New Jersey has 10 (yes, I said ten) though most of them are audio only.
> 
> 
> 2nd, it's not gonna happen as far as the CBS O&O's are concerned.



why would audio only be broadcasted on TV, them don't count. I have only seen 4 sub channels using video so far. CBS is like any other company who only cares about $$$$. When they see the others raking it in using subs they will follow. Remember it's early in something that is here to stay and it will have growing pains for awhile.


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/17193795
> 
> 
> That is a lame A_ _ excuse and total bull fritters. NBC has sub channels and their HD feed is same quality as CBS as with all the other stations using their sub channels. CBS is just to cheap or doesn't have anything worth broadcasting right now but I'm guessing by the end of next year they will be using all 5 sub stations like everyone else. I'm sure PBS increased their revenues using all 5 channels and rest will follow just going to take time for everyone to get into the grove.



Horribly horribly wrong, at least on the "same quality" bit. Seriously, you're in the wrong forum if you think you're right on this one - it's night and day, especially for sports!


----------



## SnellKrell

"I have only seen 4 sub channels using video so far."


Take a look at Channel 39.


39.1 - 39.9, all 9 channels with video!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/17193795
> 
> 
> That is a lame A_ _ excuse and total bull fritters. NBC has sub channels and their HD feed is same quality as CBS as with all the other stations using their sub channels.



Unfortunately, the laws of physics disagree with your assertion here. There is a fixed amount of bandwidth available (19.393 Mbps), and the more of it is diverted for subchannels, the less is available for the main HD. The lower the available bitrate, the fewer bits are assigned to the HD. The fewer bits assigned, the more it starts to look like YouTube and less like HD.


On how large a television set are you watching that you observe no difference in quality? I watch on very small screens and find it hard to observe PQ problems in many cases that others see very well on large TVs, though one of my local stations is just so over-compressed that it is obvious even on the smallest screen. (Every transition dissolves into a mess of blocks.)


Now, of course, as encoders improve, it's possible to maintain the same level of quality while decreasing bitrates slightly, but since CBS has newer encoders as well, I'm betting the NBC encoder is not probably that much superior to the CBS encoder if it is any better at all. By the same token, instead of decreasing bitrates, as encoders improve, those extra bits can be fed back into the HD to provide even better quality than was had in the first place.


I do not expect to see CBS utilize subchannels, though I would not be surprised to see them utilize Mobile DTV when that becomes available.


- Trip


----------



## dagger666

I'm using a 19" Emerson and no i don't see any difference between them at all. You are crazy if you don't think "MONEY" will be the deciding factor in the end when it come to sub channel usage. Like i said this is new unexplored terrain and just needs time to work out all the factors. I don't get channel 39 on Long Island and I'm 14 miles form the city. Having troubles with 7 and 11 but 13 is fine as long no planes or storms roll by. I received 7 for a short time but now nothing and 11 just went off 2 months ago.


Consider the age of the population, eye sight decreases over time and most will not have the sharpness to see the little differences use of a few sub channels might have on HD feed. Like i said when this was planned year ago, High Definition TV, low definition eyes.


----------



## SnellKrell

"I'm using a 19" Emerson"


Quod erat demonstrandum!


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/17196376
> 
> 
> I'm using a 19" Emerson



Wow! Like this one:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...#ProductDetail 



Amazing! I've never seen a contrast ratio like that!


----------



## andgarden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17196434
> 
> 
> "I'm using a 19" Emerson"
> 
> 
> Quod erat demonstrandum!



++++++++++


----------



## SemiChemE

I notice that TVfool.com is reporting a pending FCC application for WNET (13) that will result in a 2-3dB drop in power at Poughkeepsie. Does anyone know any details? Is this for real or just a TVfool glitch?


I just ordered a YA-1713 to pull in 7, 11, and 13 from NYC. I can get 11 and 13 with my existing antenna, but 7 has been MIA, so I'm hoping this new antenna will do a little better. If not, at least this will allow me to have antennas pointed at both NYC and Albany.


----------



## AloEuro

I seems to me that nobody has mentioned anything about the 3rd stream on wpix11

the 11-3 Estrilla all spanish no inglesCC, wacky lunatic game shows, lot of Infomercial

DT 704x480i same as 11-2Nocturninos


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17204735
> 
> 
> I seems to me that nobody has mentioned anything about the 3rd stream on wpix11
> 
> the 11-3 Estrilla all spanish no inglesCC, wacky lunatic game shows, lot of Infomercial
> 
> DT 704x480i same as 11-2Nocturninos



Well, it seems that you've been napping!


Go back to Post #10139 datedSeptember 14th,and since then there have been many points discussed.


----------



## johnosolis

I just read that TWC in NYC on 10/21/09 will add Univision (41) and Telefutura (68) in HD to its lineup.


As far as I know, these two stations are transmitting at 480i still.


Does that mean we should expect them to broadcast at 1080i?


[Cable operators are required to carry an HD version of local broadcasters when they broadcast in HD (not just digital 480i).]


Has anyone heard anything about these channels being broadcast in 1080i?


----------



## DTVintermods

Sometime ago I alerted the readers to the finding that some indoor amplified TV antennas also act as transmitters that cause interference to TV, FM and others. I did not identify the culprits.

Last month the FCC cited one individual in LA for interference by such an antenna. See http://www.fcc.gov/eb/fieldnotices/2...-292933A1.html 

The antenna was identified by the FCC as Philips Mant300, which is made of rabbit ears+loop+amplifier. You'll recognize that the same design is distributed by others.

So if you don't want the FCC in your home...


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/17204649
> 
> 
> I notice that TVfool.com is reporting a pending FCC application for WNET (13) that will result in a 2-3dB drop in power at Poughkeepsie. Does anyone know any details? Is this for real or just a TVfool glitch?



It's probably the application for 1WTC when it gets rebuilt. I don't think it's anything that's finalized, just protection in case they ever decide to use it. There are similar filings for 2, 4, 7, and 11.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/17204886
> 
> 
> Does that mean we should expect them to broadcast at 1080i?
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard anything about these channels being broadcast in 1080i?



Yes. Univision previously announced they would launch HD before next summer (I think). I don't remember the exact date.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

Great article that just appeared on My Yahoo page.
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/200909...s_tec_dtv_woes 


Told you low VHF and even high VHF was a mistake.


Also I am able to get channel 11 in the low 70's if I put my Terk HDTVa antenna really high up but then channel 7 is weaker. It seems at that position I can get some of the weak channels stronger but some of the strong channels I get now are weaker.


Channel 36 WNJU is basically unwatchable. They should have kept the transmitter running in West Orange while keeping the Empire State Building transmitter running too. The channel breaks up and fluctuates from the mid 60's down to the 20's to signal digits. I still don't get how it can be so weak when it was further away at less power it was much stronger.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17205831
> 
> 
> They should have kept the transmitter running in West Orange while keeping the Empire State Building transmitter running too.



Thus destroying all reception for everyone but you.










- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

Telemundo is nuts about DTS. They need engineers who understand RF


----------



## Trip in VA

I don't doubt the engineers at NBC understand RF, I think the prediction models are underestimating interference levels among various DTS transmitters.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

i just put my yagi uhf on the roof yesterday "wow" like sham wow lol. is the only thing i can say, i get most uhf channels in nyc market also connecticut and upstate stations. to my surprise all vhf channels are coming in really strong, . this is uhf yagi only. a rooftop antenna makes a world of difference


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17208076
> 
> 
> i just put my yagi uhf on the roof yesterday "wow" like sham wow lol. is the only thing i can say, i get most uhf channels in nyc market also connecticut and upstate stations. to my surprise all vhf channels are coming in really strong, . this is uhf yagi only. a rooftop antenna makes a world of difference



Cool, what upstate stations are you getting? Wondering if its because of atmospheric conditions or if its just good reception with your antenna.


----------



## nycdigital09

im in queens i get pbs from conneticut 49.1 w/a strong signal 54.1-5 tbn from poughkeepsie also 48.1 rnn. no rotor i aim toward some building across from me they bounce the signal from conneticut good i got wtxx ch 20 from hartford tonight, is probably tropo


----------



## KML-224

WTXX-DT (CW) channel 20 [digital 20] is licensed to Waterbury but has their transmitter on Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT, along US Route 6, a few miles west-southwest of downtown Hartford.


Did you, by chance, also get WEDH-DT (PBS) channel 24 [digital 45] of Hartford? They're the "parent" of WEDW-DT (PBS). They transmit from the same tower as WTXX-DT.


----------



## nycdigital09

i did get it . years ago i had a radio shack uhf antenna u120 they dont make that model any more, i used to get all hartford stations fox61 upn59 wvit 30 clear. sometimes i got albany stations fox23.


----------



## nycdigital09

klm i picked up 2 boston stations 1 springfield mass channel last night. it was very good night for tropo dx.


----------



## nycdigital09

trip in va rabbitears reports wsah ch 43 moving to nyc location theyre still in connecticut is this gonna happen?


----------



## Trip in VA

It's still an application. (It's the "APP" in DT-APP.) Until the FCC issues them a construction permit, absolutely nothing can change.


- Trip


----------



## HummerZ

Greetings. I'm very happy to have discovered this forum/thread. I've just begun my OTA experience in NYC. So far, things have been great.


I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping someone might answer.


1. Is anyone experiencing hiccups in CBS's broadcasts lately? I'm seeing flashes of previous frames. So over the course of one second, I'll see 30 frames, then frame 28 of the sequence flashes once. This happens primarily (but not always) on cuts, which leads me to believe it is something to do with their MPEG encoder. If it were my decoder/tuner, I feel like I'd be seeing the problem on other networks, but the other channels are just fine. Audio is unaffected.


2. I'm having a hard time tuning in WNYW, but everything else broadcast from the ESB comes in very strong. The rooftop antenna on my building was serviced in May. I'm in lower Brooklyn. Just wondering if there's some obvious reason for this... I'm able to pick up WNYW on WWOR's subchannel, but it's SD.


Thanks for any input!


----------



## SnellKrell

Welcome!


My understanding concerning WNYW is that the station currently uses a side mounted antenna on the ESB. Depending on its orientation, side mounted antennas have caused reception problems to the east - and that includes Brooklyn.


The station has a Construction Permit for a new facility on the ESB, higher on the Antenna Mast - 424m. I hope that the new antenna will not be side mounted.


Other stations on the ESB - specifcally WCBS, WNBC and WWOR use specific antenna panels on the Southeast of the building to fill-in reception for Brooklyn and Queens.


Have not experienced the problems that you mentioned concerning WCBS.


----------



## HummerZ

Wow, that's exactly what I wanted to hear! I hope the new construction will fix my WNYW reception problem.


As far as my stuttering CBS goes, I suppose it must be something on my end that I need to troubleshoot.


Thanks for the info!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HummerZ* /forum/post/17239736
> 
> 
> Wow, that's exactly what I wanted to hear! I hope the new construction will fix my WNYW reception problem.
> 
> 
> As far as my stuttering CBS goes, I suppose it must be something on my end that I need to troubleshoot.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info!



Not sure what coax cable you use from the antenna to the tv/box I have found and so have many others that HDTV ready coax cable (cable made for HDTV) Have improved signal strength by 5 points or more. I picked some $7 to $14 cable from best buy. I do not find the more expensive ones any better


----------



## HummerZ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17239855
> 
> 
> Not sure what coax cable you use from the antenna to the tv/box I have found and so have many others that HDTV rady coax cable (cable made for HDTV) Have improved signal strength by 5 points or more. I picked some $7 to $14 cable from best buy. I do not find the more expensive ones any better



Interesting... Any brand in particular?


----------



## disafan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17233763
> 
> 
> It's still an application. (It's the "APP" in DT-APP.) Until the FCC issues them a construction permit, absolutely nothing can change.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Out of blind curiousity, as I don't know, how long does these permits take for consideration/action? Years, I'd expect, but...anyone know more than me on the process?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *disafan* /forum/post/17239985
> 
> 
> Out of blind curiousity, as I don't know, how long does these permits take for consideration/action? Years, I'd expect, but...anyone know more than me on the process?



Actually, they're usually pretty quick with these "fixing reception during the transition" type of things. In this case, however, there are issues with regard to interference levels with WTXF-42 in Philly that are outstanding. No telling when the FCC will get around to dealing with it.


- Trip


----------



## Straphanger

Anyone had issues with 5.1 today? My HTPC was getting really crappy signal while recording Fringe at 9PM with macroblocks and choppy video.


----------



## Trip in VA

WCBS has requested an increase in power from 284 kW to 426 kW on their current antenna.


- Trip


----------



## hdtvlabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17205831
> 
> 
> Great article that just appeared on My Yahoo page.
> 
> 
> 
> Told you low VHF and even high VHF was a mistake.



I believe the student quoted in the article above is someone who has made a huge number of posts on this board ;-)


The statement regarding interference on low VHF was completely off. It is true that there is more interference on lower frequencies but it is irrelevant in this case. Interference is not the reason people have troubles with low or high-VHF. It is their unwillingness to use a REAL VHF antenna that is the problem. (I don't blame anyone, I wouldn't put a low-VHF Yagi on the roof either)


HDTVa is a log-periodic UHF antenna, but when it comes to VHF it is a simple folded shortened dipole (rabbit ears). Poor VHF performance is built-in and expected ...


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtvlabs* /forum/post/17242485
> 
> 
> I believe the student quoted in the article above is someone who has made a huge number of posts on this board ;-)



I wonder who that could be.











> Quote:
> The statement regarding interference on low VHF was completely off. It is true that there is more interference on lower frequencies but it is irrelevant in this case. Interference is not the reason people have troubles with low or high-VHF. It is their unwillingness to use a REAL VHF antenna that is the problem. (I don't blame anyone, I wouldn't put a low-VHF Yagi on the roof either)



I actually do have a low-VHF antenna for my actual low-VHF PBS station on the roof and it does actually suck. I promise.










Real antennas would help, but would not make low-VHF work acceptably. Dropping out due to thunderstorms 100 miles away, or having to choose between running a fan to keep cool and watching TV, or having reception destroyed by e-skip, all of these things are unacceptable. Not to mention all the little things like light switches and the microwave door and other things that cause drops. (Lost fragments of audio can be very annoying and make it impossible to understand.)


- Trip


----------



## hdtvlabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17242507
> 
> 
> Real antennas would help, but would not make low-VHF work acceptably. Dropping out due to thunderstorms 100 miles away, or having to choose between running a fan to keep cool and watching TV, or having reception destroyed by e-skip, all of these things are unacceptable. Not to mention all the little things like light switches and the microwave door and other things that cause drops. (Lost fragments of audio can be very annoying and make it impossible to understand.)



I think you are a little bit overstating the impact of interference on low VHF


BTW, KJ4IEA, are you working 50Mhz?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtvlabs* /forum/post/17242643
> 
> 
> I think you are a little bit overstating the impact of interference on low VHF



I'm absolutely not. Until you've lived with it for 6 years, it can be hard to believe just how bad it is. Want to watch PBS over dinner? It drops every time the microwave door is opened and closed, hitting the light switch to get food from the pantry, turning on/off the light or fan over the stove, and completely vanishes if the blender is in use.


I can't watch PBS while my mom is vacuuming, and becomes very flaky if the washing machine or dryer (can't remember which) is running. When I was living in Roanoke, I could get the Poor Mountain UHFs in almost any position with any antenna, but WBRA required my VHF bowtie, and a specific position. And then, it vanished any time the microwave was running, or my fan was running, or the renter was using her sewing machine, or the renter was using her weed-whacker outside.


As much of a fan of digital as I am, every day I was home I watched PBS on analog until the analog was gone because the digital was too irritating, unless the program I wanted was on the 15-3 subchannel, in which case I usually got annoyed and gave up on it after a while.


My family aside from myself has given up on PBS since the transition.



> Quote:
> BTW, KJ4IEA, are you working 50Mhz?



My HT (Yaesu VX-7R) is capable of 6 meters but is just terrible at it, even though I have a 6/2/440 whip on it. I've made it work for 6m simplex with the radio club VP here at school, but it faded out after he drove only a few miles. I am not sure if something is wrong with my radio or what, because 2m, 220, and 440 are just fine but I've never managed to hit any of the 6m repeaters. I've never even heard them, even when said club VP keyed one and tested for me.


At this time, I only have an HT. I want to get something more powerful, but it's money I don't want to spend at this time.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

Man-made noise is significant factor in DTV reception of VHF but although it can be identified, it's not always the primary factor. A primary factor in lost reception and one that cannot be easily quantified or even identified is multipath. The noise bin that eventually kills reception includes processed multipath, FM harmonics, Rx distortion, man-made noise, sky noise, Tx noise and interference. But in DTV we don't know what % of the total is contributed by each factor. In analog you could tell..


----------



## nycdigital09

so true vhf low is plague by any type of man made noise or interferences i know everytime I rev up the engine on my vehicle you would see dashes and lines over the tv screen were extremely fortunate that there isnt a low vhf channel in nyc digital spectrum.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Straphanger* /forum/post/17242143
> 
> 
> Anyone had issues with 5.1 today? My HTPC was getting really crappy signal while recording Fringe at 9PM with macroblocks and choppy video.



Yeah, I did. I was watching Bones then Fringe. Breakups, freezes but I was still able to watch them


----------



## nycdigital09

trip va i like to ask your perspective what would make more of dramatic difference on tv signal area from the transmitter point of view. 1 raising the height of antenna 2 raising the transmitter power. i would think raising the height of antenna would yield more gain, in area coverage throughout.


----------



## AloEuro

" Well, it seems that you've been napping! "

Well, indeed I did, I was reading it -previous comments- on my Yahoo e-mail going down, wondering what comments there might be to give me and to others good laugh, and I wasn't disappointed, thank you SnellKrell, good witty responds-remarks are wonderful medicine to weary ones,Alo.


----------



## AloEuro

Some guys had propblems with fact that the signal level fluctuated in 70' and no video on screen, I had the same with Fox5 but the conv.box gave me DialogBox saying

'Scrambled Video', now unless the signals zeros any pixelation on screen means to me

difficiencies in broadcast signal, don't blame the Ant. don't move it, it is the networks

or the stations to be blamed for breakage of signals, lately ch.17 suffers from this malady. Alo.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17250970
> 
> 
> trip va i like to ask your perspective what would make more of dramatic difference on tv signal area from the transmitter point of view. 1 raising the height of antenna 2 raising the transmitter power. i would think raising the height of antenna would yield more gain, in area coverage throughout.



Think of the transmitting antenna like the lamp in your bedroom. The lightbulb produces a circle of illumination around the base. If you raise the lamp upwards, the size of the circle increases. However, the brightness of the light lessens, unless you increase the wattage of the bulb.


----------



## adidino




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mw390* /forum/post/17247616
> 
> 
> Yeah, I did. I was watching Bones then Fringe. Breakups, freezes but I was still able to watch them



+1


experienced the same.


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17239855
> 
> 
> Not sure what coax cable you use from the antenna to the tv/box I have found and so have many others that HDTV ready coax cable (cable made for HDTV) Have improved signal strength by 5 points or more.



I have 350 feet of LMR-400 on a spool here, Wonder if this 50 ohm 1/2 inch coax would do better than RG6?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/17252540
> 
> 
> I have 350 feet of LMR-400 on a spool here, Wonder if this 50 ohm 1/2 inch coax would do better than RG6?



Not sure better ask a expert. I thought RG6 was the best coax


----------



## hdtvlabs




> Quote:
> I have 350 feet of LMR-400 on a spool here, Wonder if this 50 ohm 1/2 inch coax would do better than RG6?



No! RG6 has impedance of 75ohm, and any modern antenna and TV set is matched to 75ohm impedance. You can not use a 50ohm cable without loosing signal strength


----------



## ProjectSHO89

RG11 is the step-up from RG6 in terms of signal transmission capability for 75 ohm systems.


I only recommend or use it when signal losses that cannot be otherwise managed with amplification must be tightly controlled. Examples include cable runs that are extraordinarily long or where a pre-amp cannot be installed immediately at the antenna and a modest down-lead must be used. I've got a neighbor with a 45' tower that I installed the pre-amp at about 10' AGL with a 35' RG11 down-lead so that he can replace the pre-amp without hiring a bucket truck again. He doesn't like climbing ladders very much or towers at all... Best compromise I could come up with.


----------



## hdtvlabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17254326
> 
> 
> RG11 is the step-up from RG6 in terms of signal transmission capability for 75 ohm systems.
> 
> 
> I only recommend or use it when signal losses that cannot be otherwise managed with amplification must be tightly controlled. Examples include cable runs that are extraordinarily long ......



Right, the difference between the two is only ~1dB/100 feet which is nothing for practical purposes unless you have a very very long cable.


Another option is quad-shielded RG6


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17250970
> 
> 
> trip va i like to ask your perspective what would make more of dramatic difference on tv signal area from the transmitter point of view. 1 raising the height of antenna 2 raising the transmitter power. i would think raising the height of antenna would yield more gain, in area coverage throughout.



Height is definitely more important than power. In fact, with digital, power is pretty unimportant overall, considering that SNR can make a much bigger difference.


Example: Local station WWCW-20 is only 53 miles away.

- At 186.3 kW, I always had trouble receiving the signal, and was told the low SNR was the reason.

- WSET-34 was at the same tower site, 17.9 kW, maxed out my meter.

- When WWCW replaced their antenna and signed back on at 135 kW, instant maxing out of signal due to vastly improved SNR.


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/17252540
> 
> 
> I have 350 feet of LMR-400 on a spool here, Wonder if this 50 ohm 1/2 inch coax would do better than RG6?



How did you come about obtaining the spool.


If there are any ham radio guys on line here they love to have it.


You can use use the coax for tv signals but you must match it to 75 ohms. The ham radio guys do it all the time when they build a long wire antenna that is at 300 ohms. I have seen the directions to do it. I do not know just where. All coax has the lowest loss when new. As moisture corrodes the shield & the foam breaks down then the loss goes up just like 300 ohm. Many ham radio guys still use 300 ohm because 300 ohm wire loss is really lower than coax. But a lot of of extra care is needed to mount the 300 ohm wire that the coax doesnot. If they still manufactured 300 ohm open wire it would be the best of all. But where do you get it today. It had the lowest loss of all. You can make it buying #12 bare solid copper wire. But you would have to cut pvc pipe into spacers & drill holes to build the 300 ohm open wire. But is great because the loss does not go up as it gets old. You could run the 300 ohm open wire from the antenna down to a good location to a preamp or amp. Then from the amp to the tv can be 75 ohm coax.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17198408
> 
> 
> Wow! Like this one:
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...#ProductDetail
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing! I've never seen a contrast ratio like that!



yup, it was a gift 3 years ago and work pretty well. I was thinking of buying a bigger newer one like Sony or Samsung around 32" to 40" range since the prices are really dropping under $500 but not until i'm sure to get all the channels. Besides since i watch my Hockey games on line not much on regular TV calling for HD.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snellkrell* /forum/post/17196434
> 
> 
> "i'm using a 19" emerson"
> 
> 
> quod erat demonstrandum!



u !


----------



## nycdigital09

you might want to consider a hd tv with sensitive tuner to pickup the ota signals, i would suggest a tv with lg tuner built in. i read that tuner is one best for ota tv. i have a samsung plasma tv the hd tuner is not as sensitive as my sony lcd .


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17266421
> 
> 
> How did you come about obtaining the spool.
> 
> 
> If there are any ham radio guys on line here they love to have it.
> 
> 
> You can use use the coax for tv signals but you must match it to 75 ohms. The ham radio guys do it all the time when they build a long wire antenna that is at 300 ohms. I have seen the directions to do it. I do not know just where. All coax has the lowest loss when new. As moisture corrodes the shield & the foam breaks down then the loss goes up just like 300 ohm. Many ham radio guys still use 300 ohm because 300 ohm wire loss is really lower than coax. But a lot of of extra care is needed to mount the 300 ohm wire that the coax doesnot. If they still manufactured 300 ohm open wire it would be the best of all. But where do you get it today. It had the lowest loss of all. You can make it buying #12 bare solid copper wire. But you would have to cut pvc pipe into spacers & drill holes to build the 300 ohm open wire. But is great because the loss does not go up as it gets old. You could run the 300 ohm open wire from the antenna down to a good location to a preamp or amp. Then from the amp to the tv can be 75 ohm coax.



There still is ham radio? Is that radio still in the same room as a CB radio? Pick up the phone. International rates are cheap today. under 9 cents a minute.


----------



## SubaruB4

hey I'm a Ham radio user at age 24.. I got my call sign last year.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm KJ4IEA, licensed 10 months ago.


- Trip


----------



## SubaruB4

I'm KB1QXO


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17285096
> 
> 
> I'm KJ4IEA, licensed 10 months ago.
> 
> 
> - Trip



thought all hamers were like dinosaurs


----------



## Trip in VA

You thought incorrectly.










- Trip


----------



## pm123

Anyone having problems with channel 13?


On both my Magnavox H2160 and my Philips 3575 the channel 13 subs are mixed up.


13.1 is Kids, 13.2 is Spanish and 13.3 is PBS this change happened earlier in the week. I've re-scanned and they are still mixed up


the Tivo still has them correct: 31.1 PBS, 13.2 Kids and 13.3 Spanish.

I don't want to re scan the Tivo.


Any Idea whats up?


----------



## SnellKrell

I just checked out the stations and everything is fine.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17288234
> 
> 
> You thought incorrectly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Do you own a pinto or VW flower bus also


----------



## Trip in VA

Nope, I don't own a vehicle. Just a bunch of DTV gear and my HT.










- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

whats up with the program guide on zenith dtt900 dt box the schedule is hour behind so is the clock. its it just me or everyone


----------



## AloEuro

" I can't watch PBS while my mom is vacuuming, and becomes very flaky if the washing machine or dryer is running. "

During analog era, every time the folks one floor above my head were vacuum cleaning, usually Sunday prime time, the noise was acceptable but the interference of

horizontal lines made some channels unwatchable, while others were so so, now at DTV

era they can vacuum clean any time, there is no sign of them on my TV, the digitals are

far superior.

The analog interference was strictly electric wiring deficiencies of old structures, I think that you young blood have mixed the antenna with electric wiring, though the Ant. may have also bearing on your coveted silly PBS.

Large full size window air conditioner in my building always blow off the fuse, some folks have extra-additional electric wiring for the AC.

Often with all appliances On one hand held hair dryer (used to be 1000W) would blow

off the fuse.

We do some time extend our blame on innocent things, don't we ? Alo.


----------



## a72849

The problem is most NY stations have returned to eastern standard time too early. Channels 5, 11, and 63 are the only ones still transmitting daylight time. Start on one of these channels then select the program guide and the times will be correct. We fall back to standard time on Nov 7.


----------



## nycdigital09

thxs for heads up, this is best time of the year for sports fans, you got baseball playoffs coming up football is really clickin now, you got hockey starting, best is fox5 got the ny yanks for playoffs


----------



## KML-224




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a72849* /forum/post/17293831
> 
> 
> The problem is most NY stations have returned to eastern standard time too early. Channels 5, 11, and 63 are the only ones still transmitting daylight time. Start on one of these channels then select the program guide and the times will be correct. We fall back to standard time on Nov 7.



Actually, daylight saving time will end at 2 AM on Sunday, November 1st.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17294708
> 
> 
> best is fox5 got the ny yanks for playoffs



For the ALCS if they make it. The ALDS is on TBS.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17298749
> 
> 
> For the ALCS if they make it. The ALDS is on TBS.



Isn't TBS suppose to simulcast it free on an OTA station like Fox5,My9,etc for the Yanks? I remember ESPN use to simulcast it on MY9 a few years back.


----------



## StudioTech

When TBS got a portion of the playoff series in 2007, it was reported that they were cable exclusive. Sure enough, when they Yankees were playing the Indians, none of the local stations were carrying the games. I doubt that'll change this go around.


----------



## NYC10033




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a72849* /forum/post/17293831
> 
> 
> The problem is most NY stations have returned to eastern standard time too early. Channels 5, 11, and 63 are the only ones still transmitting daylight time. Start on one of these channels then select the program guide and the times will be correct. We fall back to standard time on Nov 7.



I noticed the time was off too.


First I thought I missed the "Fall back" warnings. Then I thought my converter box was not setup properly - (it is set for "Auto" daylight savings time reconfiguration.


Plus I noticed that some channels were OK.


This all started last Sunday.


I can't believe that TV stations would broadcast the wrong time. It very unprofessional and I thought their equipment was up to date. Maybe the coin battery in their computers is dead.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17298918
> 
> 
> When TBS got a portion of the playoff series in 2007, it was reported that they were cable exclusive. Sure enough, when they Yankees were playing the Indians, none of the local stations were carrying the games. I doubt that'll change this go around.



the cable, dish & direct tv must have paid more money than the ota stations offered. They want to force folks to pay for it & they know they will get it from those who have those providers & not ota. If enough folks dropped the service they would not be getting as much money &Tbs would find out they were shooting the goose that lays the golden egg & would then put it on ota.


----------



## salemkern

Does anyone know what these channels (13.102 and 13.103) are? Last night my DVD recorder (Panasonic DRM-EZ48V) stopped working after a couple of years of working fine. So today I bought a new one (of the same model). After I got the new one set up, I clicked through the channels, and after clicking those high-number WNET subchannels, the picture went out. I was able to reboot the recorder a couple of times to get the picture back, but when I tried to delete 13.102 from the recorder's channel list, it stopped working in the same way as the old one.


Does this make any sense to anyone? Does anyone know how I can get these recorders working again?


----------



## reddice

My Toshiba HDTV displays the OTA channels guide one hour behind. I can go into the TV setup and turn on the Daylight Savings Time but as soon as I turn the TV off and turn it back on it is set to off again.


I hate it when devices do that. I have a few that do that. You change the setting and then when you turn it off and back on again it is back to the stupid default setting again,


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17319693
> 
> 
> My Toshiba HDTV displays the OTA channels guide one hour behind. I can go into the TV setup and turn on the Daylight Savings Time but as soon as I turn the TV off and turn it back on it is set to off again.
> 
> 
> I hate it when devices do that. I have a few that do that. You change the setting and then when you turn it off and back on again it is back to the stupid default setting again,



Your local station sending the DST data early. It's not the TV's fault.


----------



## nycdigital09

anybody notice signal propogation last night, for some reason i was pickin up hartfford tv stations. i got nbc wvit 30 also pbs wedh ch 24 were coming really strong. it was kind of warm late evening.


----------



## nycdigital09

trip, i noticed that wsah ch 43 from bridgeport is listed under nyc channel list as strongest signal. 1 the station still in bridgeport? 2 it was a viewable channel unitl they change programming to all paid programing (informercials 24/7) 3 that channel is a waste of airwaves.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17327141
> 
> 
> trip, i noticed that wsah ch 43 from bridgeport is listed under nyc channel list as strongest signal.



Well, their proposed 990 kW signal has the largest range. It's somewhat misleading, but it's an automated list that's designed as a starting point for people trying to apply certain FCC rules.



> Quote:
> 1 the station still in bridgeport?



Yes.



> Quote:
> 2 it was a viewable channel unitl they change programming to all paid programing (informercials 24/7)



If you heard what I heard from the people at WSAH, you would understand exactly why they dropped RTV and why they were 100% correct to do so.



> Quote:
> 3 that channel is a waste of airwaves.



I'd like to see something useful multicast on it, even if the primary was left as infomercials. For example, WFSB could lease out a 43-3 for their current nightmare on 3-4.


- Trip


----------



## SubaruB4

playing with the OTA again I just only hooked up my VHF at the time.. so far WABC, WPIX and WNET all work fine.


I have not kept up with this thread but I don't know if anything changed on the UHF side of things.


----------



## a72849




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/17294744
> 
> 
> Actually, daylight saving time will end at 2 AM on Sunday, November 1st.



You are right, the first Sunday in November 2009 is the 1st. Maybe I was looking at the 2010 calendar?


BTW, WPXN Channel 31 also displays time correctly.


----------



## dagger666

OK got my new Winegurd 3000 antenna and gave it a try. First thing i noticed is CBS,FOX single strengths have dropped a lot but the stations are watchable. I have the Wineguard on a table behind a fan right now while the Monoprice was near the top of my wall so I'm not to concerned about that. Got ABC back right away and as i held the antenna higher also got back 11 & 13 but lost it again when i put it back down. Figured i would move it around the wall, find the right spot and buy a floating shelf so it can rest on. Sad it can't be hooked to the wall but the shelf will look nice. What is that big plastic thing hooked to the antennas back, clear plastic with tape around it. How does that help? yes i know it's a bow design but don't see how it helped since the single should pass right through the clear plastic part.


----------



## LenL

Sunday afternoon I was watching football and changing channels. I noticed that 7.1 which is obviously high VHF (almost low) had a stronger signal than UHF 4.1 and 2.1 for me. It was registering solid in the mid to high 80s and the other channels were fluctuating greatly in the low 70's to mid 80's with some breakup. Fox 5.1 was a solid 91-93 as usual for me.


Just using a CM4228 UHF antenna and CM 7777 preamp.


Anyone else ssing this Sunday?


----------



## reddice

Channel 7 is my strongest high VHF channel. I noticed I can get channel 11 in the mid to high 50's if I extend one of the dipoles all the way up. Channel 7 still comes in good and channel 13 which sometimes gives me problems now comes in real good in the high 60's to low 70's.


----------



## ma8466

Does anyone know if Channel 8 out of New Brunswick moved to proposed Times Square location?


Also, I've been trying to get WLIW 21 with no success. I am in Bergen County, NJ and get most of the NY/NJ channels.


----------



## nycdigital09

no theyre not moving to 4 tsq theyre staying in nj. but you should get their signal pretty good, being on the other side of hudson. i being in queens cant get njn im blocked off by some treess and buildings. i'm hoping once the leafs are gone i can pick it up .


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ma8466* /forum/post/17341992
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if Channel 8 out of New Brunswick moved to proposed Times Square location?
> 
> 
> Also, I've been trying to get WLIW 21 with no success. I am in Bergen County, NJ and get most of the NY/NJ channels.



I sincerely doubt you'll manage to receive WLIW. I was sitting practically under Armstrong Tower in Alpine which has a significant height advantage and got WFTY and WLNY from Long Island but not WLIW, even though I should have had line of sight.


And as previously stated, WNJB is not moving to Times Square. Regardless, WNJN 50-1 should be available to you with the same programming.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17327872
> 
> 
> If you heard what I heard from the people at WSAH, you would understand exactly why they dropped RTV and why they were 100% correct to do so.



why did they drop RTV??? i wanted that channel. :-(


so is there any TVLand-like channels negotiating with NYC stations now?


----------



## reddice

RTV was not bad. Now the channel is wasting space running stupid annoying infomercials all the time. What is the point of a channel that runs infomercials all the time. Just a big waste of space. I hope they stay in Connecticut and not move to the ESB wasting power showing useless infomercials on there since they are cramped for space.


----------



## Trip in VA

RTV was not up to the standards set by WSAH. I won't get into specifics, but let's just say that when someone in charge at WSAH calls to complain about pressing problems (like ads that were sold and then not shown), getting yelled at by the people at RTV did not leave a very good taste in their mouth.


The infomercials make them more money than RTV did.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

thanks for the info, Trip!

do you know of any stations in NYC negotiating with RTV or any other similar channel (MeTV, ThisTV, etc)?


----------



## Trip in VA

I've heard unofficially that RTV is seeking another affiliate in New York, but nothing beyond that.


MeTV is not a network.


This TV, I've heard nothing about with regard to New York, but I have to imagine it will pop up soon. New York is a glaring hole in the network's coverage and would easily put it over carriage in 80% of the country.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

trip i read about the problems with rtv, on another site, seems like those technical glitches are not being corrected, on other rtv affiliates either imho think it would behoof the connecticut region if wsha would broadcast wfsb or wtic, on wsah sub channel.

just my cents.


----------



## disafan

I understand stations need to make money. But that's not our problem as watchers. We know stations claim to serve us but really serve those who pay for commercial airtime.


It is a matter that we want quality programming more than informercials. So, WSAH had a good reason to get rid of Retro-TV, that doesn't mean we like it.


----------



## nycdigital09

wsah was only showing retro tv for a few hours a day and the shows they had were hand picked. i was not interested in any their tv series they put up, i wanted to watch the hulk, adam 12 , emergency, they never showed those.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17348351
> 
> 
> I've heard unofficially that RTV is seeking another affiliate in New York, but nothing beyond that.
> 
> 
> MeTV is not a network.
> 
> 
> This TV, I've heard nothing about with regard to New York, but I have to imagine it will pop up soon. New York is a glaring hole in the network's coverage and would easily put it over carriage in 80% of the country.
> 
> 
> - Trip



There are so many millions with OTA now. Money is tight in this economy. Why can't the networks put up what people want to see


1) 24/7 news like CNN

2) 24/7 movie station or THIS TV RTV, ME TV

3) A station like A&E, Discovery channel, ect ( How hard can it be to make a DOG the Bounty Hunter type shows. Or Kate plus 8 ect.


4) Channel 21 with a link for NYC


5) ESPN


6) TNT type of channel


7) Free PLAYBOY channel (A man can wish no?)


Just saying with over 50 million OTa people (anyone know the actual number?)


The Networks have a niche market. The cable company's are not involved with OTA. So Instead of the networks complaining about losing share. Make OTA like a mini FREE Cable network. Compete with the cable companys like they do with the networks.


This can not be hard to understand for the networks


----------



## StudioTech

^ I want some of what you're smoking.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17363929
> 
> 
> ^ I want some of what you're smoking.



I know it is pure fantasy. What if what I wrote is true how many would leave Cable tv? The networks have a clear advantage with OTA. They are not taking advantage of it. That is my point.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17364046
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17363929
> 
> 
> ^ I want some of what you're smoking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is pure fantasy. What if what I wrote is true how many would leave Cable tv? The networks have a clear advantage with OTA. They are not taking advantage of it. That is my point.
Click to expand...


I agree, and frankly just don't understand why the networks are jerking around!


Firstly, what are the actual limits (comfortably, without compromising quality) with digital OTA transmission?

For instance, is it possible to simultaneously transmit:

(1) 1080 HD and (1) 720 HD, and (1) 480 SD, -OR-

(2) 720 HD and (2) 480 SD sub ch's. -OR-

(1) 720 HD and (3) 480 SD subs -OR-

(5) 480 SD ch's?


Or is all of that entirely too optimistic?

Regardless...


It would seem the networks are currently in a very good position to go to war with cable/sat providers, up the programming choices, and give the consumer a real alternative to paid TV - and they would get to keep all the advertising dollars.


I think the question that must be answered, and is really the determining factor, is: *How does the money flow???*


The way I understand it, cable/sat providers get paid from the subscriber *and* from the network to carry their programming. But the major networks also produce many shows shown on the cable/sat networks, new and exclusive in addition to what's in syndication. (For example, CBS produces "The Guardian" on Sleuth network.)


So currently networks would theoretically have to pay extra to have the cable/sat providers carry their sub channel transmissions, yes? (If CBS put "The Guardian" on a sub channel, etc.)


Better still, why can't the networks just act like a cable/sat provider and lease their extra channel space to the same networks that are already on cable/sat? TNT is on cable, Dish & Direct TV... Why not on CBS's OTA -2 transmission also? NBC can cut a deal with USA, and put CNBC on a SD sub, etc, etc... THEN WE'D HAVE A *REAL* ALTERNATIVE TO PAY TV!


Of course the masses would first need to be educated that the OTA HD quality is superior, and that (for the most part) they don't need the 10'x14' yagi monster antennas of old on their roof.


Problem is, the moment the cable/sat providers realize they're losing revenue due to people dropping their service they will change their tune and cut a deal with the networks, and in the end we will all get screwed...


And I also agree you're smoking some good sh!t if you think we're ever going to see free OTA Playboy!







LOL!


----------



## Trip in VA

As much as people would enjoy the major networks shooting themselves in the head, I sincerely doubt it will happen.


Cable networks receive money from cable systems, not the other way around. Every person who leaves cable/satellite for OTA is a loss of a guaranteed fee in favor of the chance of slightly better ad revenue in a bad ad market.


Since all of the major networks are co-owned with many cable networks, many more so than will ever be available OTA, none will go this route.


- Trip


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17365742
> 
> 
> Cable networks receive money from cable systems, not the other way around. Every person who leaves cable/satellite for OTA is a loss of a guaranteed fee in favor of the chance of slightly better ad revenue in a bad ad market.
> 
> 
> Since all of the major networks are co-owned with many cable networks, many more so than will ever be available OTA, none will go this route.



See this is how I originally thought it went - but then I got misinformed.









So TNT for instance is getting revenue from Dish, Direct, and all the cable co's also. So then, yes why would they want to *pay* to be carried on an OTA network's sub channel...


And then so also are the OTA networks paid by the cable/sat providers to be carried on their systems? And if the OTA networks try to become the competition it will be a war, and the cable/sat providers will stop carrying the OTA networks?


So who is getting the ad revenue from commercials on a cable/sat network - the cable/sat provider, yes?


Then can it be looked at from another angle - would it be cost effective for the OTA networks to pay the cable/sat network (and if it's co-owned all the better) to be on their OTA subs? And by default, so to speak, gaining viewership from those that cancel cable/sat, reaping the ad revenue, while saving on not having to produce extra programming to fill these slots?


I'm just looking for a way to justify a win for us little guys here!

I am finding it ridiculous to have to pay almost $100/mo to watch TV - *WITH COMMERCIALS!*

The cable/sat companies need to be brought down a few notches, and this can now be done with digital OTA - I have read that 98% of this country can receive OTA reliably with the right equipment.


If someone will just have the balls to throw the first punch.


----------



## lexus2108

I keep the "yagi monster " under my bed


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17368549
> 
> 
> I keep the "yagi monster " under my bed



That's freakin' classic!

LMAO!


----------



## AloEuro

It seems to me that the CBSch.2 not providing subchannels, as compared to

NBCch.4-2, that the ch.2CEO are brain damaged.

I do not watch daytime Sunday but NBC4-2 at night shows noontime show like Meet the press, while cbs remains comatose,alo


----------



## Trip in VA

CBS has decided that pristine picture quality is preferable to additional subchannels. Given the current state of the advertising market, I don't think I disagree.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Also, the viewership of the sub-channels is below minimum standards to have ratings published.


We have very much of a Catch 22 situation.


Carriage makes programming available to the audience.


Programming attracts viewers.


Viewers mean ratings. Ratings equal advertisers. Higher ratings, higher ad rates.


Programming costs money.


Today, stations are cutting budgets.


The circle goes round and round!


----------



## speedlaw

I'm OTA here 40 miles north of NYC. CBS-2 is to be commended for no sub channels. ABC by comparison looks like crap, and no, it's not the 720 vs. 1080 issue, its the bitrate and the way ABC starves .1 to feed .2 "lifestyle" channel. These subchannels are a waste. I don't even bother to program them into the system. Much like my Dish setup, where I have a favorites list and that's pretty much it-I have little enough time as it is to waste it on watching "shopping channels".


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17266421
> 
> 
> How did you come about obtaining the spool.
> 
> 
> If there are any ham radio guys on line here they love to have it.
> 
> 
> You can use use the coax for tv signals but you must match it to 75 ohms. The ham radio guys do it all the time when they build a long wire antenna that is at 300 ohms. I have seen the directions to do it. I do not know just where. All coax has the lowest loss when new. As moisture corrodes the shield & the foam breaks down then the loss goes up just like 300 ohm. Many ham radio guys still use 300 ohm because 300 ohm wire loss is really lower than coax. But a lot of of extra care is needed to mount the 300 ohm wire that the coax doesnot. If they still manufactured 300 ohm open wire it would be the best of all. But where do you get it today. It had the lowest loss of all. You can make it buying #12 bare solid copper wire. But you would have to cut pvc pipe into spacers & drill holes to build the 300 ohm open wire. But is great because the loss does not go up as it gets old. You could run the 300 ohm open wire from the antenna down to a good location to a preamp or amp. Then from the amp to the tv can be 75 ohm coax.



Yes, I'm a ham and I have a length of LMR 400 feeding a UHF/VHF discone on the roof. It's overkill for UHF and VHF, but for 800 mhz signals, there is a difference. My OTA TV system has RG-6 from the Cable Company, mostly, and I get all channels well except channel 50, which is a bit over 500 mhz. This is also due to the fact I split the signal four ways without an amp. I have a large antenna, and this with no amp, which I could not use as my ham radios would cause havoc. Now I can transmit and not bother TV.


Sell the LMR 400 to another ham and buy better RG-6, fresh connectors and splitters (I had one old splitter causing no end of problems till found). The 400 is expensive !


I wonder if ladder line would work at these frequencies. Even if it did, it would be a royal PIA to run compared to coax. Hams used ladder line because it has low line loss when transmitting at high SWR, which is not relevant for a receive - TV setup. (hams also must use a tuner with this setup)


----------



## nyctveng

it was a corporate decision for cbs owned and operated stations to not have subschannels. do u really want cbs to sacrafise picture quality for awful subchannels with weather or other usless programming?


a lot of networks are experiemnting with subchannels but no one has yet to make a profit from it. in new york, weather plus on nbc failed. now that its replaced with new york non stop programming is not much better and no one is watching. the tube previously on wpix's subchannel failed and went out of business. abc hd looks like crap because they gave bandwith to live well hd that no one watches. all these channels are buried on the cable dial and handful of OTA viewers are watching these because their viewing options are much more limited.


in very small markets where there are cbs affiliates (not owned by cbs) the subchannel may be a less popular network with no affiliation in that market such as CW or MyNetwork, weather, or informercials.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17382123
> 
> 
> It seems to me that the CBSch.2 not providing subchannels, as compared to
> 
> NBCch.4-2, that the ch.2CEO are brain damaged.
> 
> I do not watch daytime Sunday but NBC4-2 at night shows noontime show like Meet the press, while cbs remains comatose,alo


----------



## mikepier

I don't know about anyone else, but I have yet to see a subchannel that's of any interest to me. The only exception is PBS 13.2 and QUBO 31.2 for the kids.


----------



## SubaruB4

what happened to WABC? I have no signal but I can get WNET and WPIX


----------



## SnellKrell

It's 9:23 and WABC is coming in loud and clear!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/17382987
> 
> 
> I'm OTA here 40 miles north of NYC. CBS-2 is to be commended for no sub channels. ABC by comparison looks like crap, and no, it's not the 720 vs. 1080 issue, its the bitrate and the way ABC starves .1 to feed .2 "lifestyle" channel. These subchannels are a waste. I don't even bother to program them into the system. Much like my Dish setup, where I have a favorites list and that's pretty much it-I have little enough time as it is to waste it on watching "shopping channels".



I would say main channel HD and 1 sub at SD would be ok with most everyone.


Putting 2 HD channels is stupid imo


----------



## jpru34

My daughter LOVES Qubo. I thought she was the only one who watched it.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i have no prob with one main channel in HD and 1 or 2 subs in SD. the problem is the network's lack of will to create a good sub-channel. someone said the Weather sub-channel flopped.... no ****e.... of course it did. it sucked! and NY-Non-Stop sucks *almost* as much! i hope it gets shaken up a bit.


i'm sure WLIW-21 viewers are damn glad to have *PBS World* as a sub! and the cost to air it cant be exorbitant since those shows are not exclusive to PBS World. they have been shown on PBS before. i wish i could receive WLIW-21 with my gigantic antenna in the kitchen!










NBC, CBS, ABC do not have to create brand-new programming to fill their subs. they just need to have commom sense and good taste to pick some oldies that ppl want to see. the current economy doesnt help, i know. but they are wasting their bandwidth anyway with their current subs. they should just run old shows for which they hold the rights. even stuff from the 60's would get ppl to tune in, i believe.


i have my PC hooked to my 37" LCD so i can watch LOTS of full TV episodes (a few in HD, mind you) from Hulu and YouTube. i watch Outer Limits, Star Trek, Daily Show, A Team, etc, etc. at my home, the 'Net is compensating for the fact OTA programming sucks.


just my personal opinion.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/17393517
> 
> 
> My daughter LOVES Qubo. I thought she was the only one who watched it.



Qubo is also a sub-channel of ION-31. i'm sure it's great fun for kids.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/17399577
> 
> 
> i have no prob with one main channel in HD and 1 or 2 subs in SD. the problem is the network's lack of will to create a good sub-channel. someone said the Weather sub-channel flopped.... no ****e.... of course it did. it sucked! and NY-Non-Stop sucks *almost* as much! i hope it gets shaken up a bit.
> 
> 
> i'm sure WLIW-21 viewers are damn glad to have *PBS World* as a sub! and the cost to air it cant be exorbitant since those shows are not exclusive to PBS World. they have been shown on PBS before. i wish i could receive WLIW-21 with my gigantic antenna in the kitchen!



I enjoy some WLIW shows, like This Old House. Why can't they show it in 16:9 though?


----------



## Slikkster

I see no reason whatsoever to manufacture sub-channels where none are needed. I also don't see then need to make an "SD" sub of the main HD-1 channel. Let the converter box take care of formatting. Why else would you need an SD sub for the same content?


A useful sub-channel for OTA _might be_ time-shifting the main HD-1 carrier by three hours or so (even less) for someone to catch something at a more convenient time without having to resort to a hard drive setup. I'm not sure how program licensing issues would work or not work in that scenario, however.


But in the absence of a necessity for sub-channels, I applaud CBS for giving all the bandwidth possible to the main signal.


----------



## mikepier

Speaking of wasted channels, someone explain to me why Ch9 is simulcasting the Yankee ALCS in Spanish and in SD?

Why not just watch the game in HD on 5.1 and press the SAP button?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/17401164
> 
> 
> Speaking of wasted channels, someone explain to me why Ch9 is simulcasting the Yankee ALCS in Spanish and in SD?
> 
> Why not just watch the game in HD on 5.1 and press the SAP button?



La razón está más allá de cualquier comprensión. Con excepción de la lengua hablada de los U.S.A sea español pronto.


----------



## Trip in VA

¿Qué?


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17402370
> 
> 
> ¿Qué?
> 
> 
> - Trip



LOL Just being a wise guy. Answering in Spanish


----------



## SnellKrell

Translate por favor.


----------



## Trip in VA

I figured. Thus why I answered en español.










- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/17401164
> 
> 
> Speaking of wasted channels, someone explain to me why Ch9 is simulcasting the Yankee ALCS in Spanish and in SD?
> 
> Why not just watch the game in HD on 5.1 and press the SAP button?



No SAP audio.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17402864
> 
> 
> Translate por favor.



Google "bablefish" Free translator. Good tool to have. Many Language translate. From and to English


Then just cut and paste what i said into it. After choosing Spanish to English


----------



## SnellKrell

"The reason is beyond any comprehension. With exception of the language spoken about the U.S.A be a prompt Spanish."


I think it lost something while traveling along the ether!


----------



## nycdigital09

is obvious, why they transmitting the baseball game on 2 channels. cos they'll double their revenue targeting the latino market, thru advertisement - selling prime airtime.


----------



## nycdigital09

strong tropospheric last 2 nights, picked up boston stations also albany ny, i logged a station from rhode island, this from queenz.


----------



## Skyeclad

Lousy reception tonight for Ch.'s 2, 4, and 5 in Fairfield County.


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17402347
> 
> 
> La razón está más allá de cualquier comprensión. Con excepción de la lengua hablada de los U.S.A sea español pronto.



Let's see if I can do a better translation than babelfish:


The reason is beyond all comprehension, except that the spoken language of the U.S.A will soon be Spanish.


I'm a little suspicious that Babelfish generated the original Spanish phrase.

_Pero, puesto que español no es mi lengua nativa, no quiero tirar piedras._


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/17410081
> 
> 
> Let's see if I can do a better translation than babelfish:
> 
> 
> The reason is beyond all comprehension, except that the spoken language of the U.S.A will soon be Spanish.
> 
> 
> I'm a little suspicious that Babelfish generated the original Spanish phrase.
> 
> _Pero, puesto que español no es mi lengua nativa, no quiero tirar piedras._



Wow my little phrase really got you guys going lol


suspicious? In what way?


----------



## AloEuro

Hey, Lexus 2108, truly you are born provocateur- giving good laugh, gracias senor.


----------



## AloEuro

I don't have much time for TV but last week I had troubles with Wabc7 also 11pix, I turned the roof Ant. from ESB 80 degree left to downtovn Brooklyn, beyond I can see about 8 RF towers, I use the otddor Ant. as coplimentary to my 2rabbit earsBow combi

ner hooked up to conv.box.

I also use 2-1 and 4-1 splitters in set up in order to offset overloading of signals, to make too strong ch. weaker but sufficiently strong and not to interfere with weaker ch. which do not become too weak, so the strong and weak can ride along through narrow path of Ant. into Kentucky derby type of stalls inside the conv.boxes.

The first stall 1or6-1.....2for cbs2....3for 3-where are thou?.....4for nbc4-1.2.4.... etc. now I get all majors and the coveted espanol ch.s especially with ingles subtitles.

Amazing, I find time to watch the spanish ch. and have no time for the ingles.Alo.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17412513
> 
> 
> Hey, Lexus 2108, truly you are born provocateur- giving good laugh, gracias senor.



Oh I was just joking. These guys know me a long time on this board. I never thought that post would get this much attention.


Guess not much going on in the world of OTA NYC


----------



## reddice

Like I said before channel 11 is watchable now since I expanded one of my dipole antennas all the way up. It even made channel 13 stronger while not making channel 7 any weaker. Channel 7 likes it when the dipoles are down.


As for subchannels channel 7 needs to get rid of that live well network or stop broadcasting in 720p. Channel 7 is the most watched network with the worst picture quality. Also it does not make no sense for channel 11 to have two spanish sub channels. Should those channels be on channel 41 which I can never get, channel 47 or channel 68.


----------



## johnosolis

Here is a link to an interesting article from the December 1962 issue of Popular Mechanics entitled "Here Comes UHF-TV!"


Although obviously dated, it compares VHF & UHF reception and illustrates different types of UHF antennas.


Interestingly, it talks about people needing to buy $30 converter boxes to enable their VHF-only TVs to receive UHF broadcasts.


There are many parallels to the government enforcement of the DTV conversion. Apparently, even a decade after UHF was introduced, TV set manufacturers did not include UHF receivers.


John

http://books.google.com/books?id=4ds...age&q=&f=false


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17421198
> 
> 
> Like I said before channel 11 is watchable now since I expanded one of my dipole antennas all the way up. It even made channel 13 stronger while not making channel 7 any weaker. Channel 7 likes it when the dipoles are down.
> 
> 
> As for subchannels channel 7 needs to get rid of that live well network or stop broadcasting in 720p. Channel 7 is the most watched network with the worst picture quality. Also it does not make no sense for channel 11 to have two spanish sub channels. Should those channels be on channel 41 which I can never get, channel 47 or channel 68.



u are extremely naive to say just because WPIX's subchannels are spanish that they should be grouped with 41,47,or 68.


#1- LATV and Estrella are paying Tribune/WPIX to carry those subchannels. Tribune is having financial troubles and this helps their bottom line. Also gives those 2 channels exposure in the #1 DMA.


#2- The 2 channels compete with Telefutura, Univision, and Telemundo. Why would any say NBC owned Telemundo 47 want to carry a competing service on their subchannel?


#3- there are OTA viewers that can pickup 11 but not 41, 47, or 68. If that is the case, they still have access to spanish programming.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/17426927
> 
> 
> u are extremely naive to say just because WPIX's subchannels are spanish that they should be grouped with 41,47,or 68.
> 
> 
> #1- LATV and Estrella are paying Tribune/WPIX to carry those subchannels. Tribune is having financial troubles and this helps their bottom line. Also gives those 2 channels exposure in the #1 DMA.
> 
> 
> #2- The 2 channels compete with Telefutura, Univision, and Telemundo. Why would any say NBC owned Telemundo 47 want to carry a competing service on their subchannel?
> 
> 
> #3- there are OTA viewers that can pickup 11 but not 41, 47, or 68. If that is the case, they still have access to spanish programming.



Couldn't have said it better!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/17426927
> 
> 
> u are extremely naive to say just because WPIX's subchannels are spanish that they should be grouped with 41,47,or 68.
> 
> 
> #1- LATV and Estrella are paying Tribune/WPIX to carry those subchannels. Tribune is having financial troubles and this helps their bottom line. Also gives those 2 channels exposure in the #1 DMA.
> 
> 
> #2- The 2 channels compete with Telefutura, Univision, and Telemundo. Why would any say NBC owned Telemundo 47 want to carry a competing service on their subchannel?
> 
> 
> #3- there are OTA viewers that can pickup 11 but not 41, 47, or 68. If that is the case, they still have access to spanish programming.



There seems to be more Spanish programing then English now. I understand soon (next 10 or so years) The main language of USA will be Spanish.


BUT NYC needs more English programing. English is still the main language here.


I can not get the CC to work with English subtitles for my aunt. I tried CC3 and 1 to 6 and nothing worked.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17431857
> 
> 
> There seems to be more Spanish programing then English now. I understand soon (next 10 or so years) The main language of USA will be Spanish.
> 
> 
> BUT NYC needs more English programing. English is still the main language here.
> 
> 
> I can not get the CC to work with English subtitles for my aunt. I tried CC3 and 1 to 6 and nothing worked.



programmers & networks will put on whatever they think the market wants/needs and will generate profit, not what lexus2108 prefers. on the cable dial there are something like 300 english channels and 30 spanish channels. on OTA the ratio of english to spanish channels is different because there is a greater # of latino households cannot afford cable.


see this link to get an understanding why NY and other markets have lot of hispanic programming
http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/MarketTr...ic_Markets.asp


----------



## Ken H

I have deleted a number of off topic, completely unnecessary comments, and suspended members.


Further like comments will result in loss of the ability to participate at AVS.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just learned that the FCC has approved WABC's application to install a backup transmission facility using its old analog antenna at 4TS.


The application was made just days ago. What I don't understand is that the station applied for its ESB, main facility to increase power from 11.69kW to 27.0kW - this application was made at the end of June. The Construction Permit still hasn't been granted and the status continues to be pending. I realize that the Commission has to study and determine the impact of increasing a station's power, but with all the problems so many viewers have had since the station ignorantly left UHF for V, one would think and hope that there would be a more timely response to the application.


----------



## Trip in VA

It likely causes impermissible interference to WNJB-8 and so ABC would have been asked to modify the application either to eliminate the interference or to show an interference acceptance agreement.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

What's so strange is that the Commission allowed WABC to use Channel 7 because the plan was for WNJB (8) to "co-locate" at 4TS this month. The station reneged, which then, in my opinion obviates WABC using Channel 7.


WABC should put all of us out of our misery and move back to UHF and be done with its crazed obsession with using Channel 7 - which by the way, goes all the way back to when Edward Noble founded ABC!


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Just learned that the FCC has approved WABC's application to install a backup transmission facility using its old analog antenna at 4TS.



how long till this backup is implemented?



> Quote:
> WABC should put all of us out of our misery and move back to UHF and be done with its crazed obsession with using Channel 7



maybe that's their "Plan D"....


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/17441002
> 
> 
> how long till this backup is implemented?
> 
> 
> maybe that's their "Plan D"....



Have no idea when it will be fired up.


The back up is authorized only for Channel 7.


If the station eventually throws in the towel on VHF, it will first have

to select a UHF channel that can be used and file an application with the Commission.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17412891
> 
> 
> Oh I was just joking. These guys know me a long time on this board. I never thought that post would get this much attention.
> 
> 
> Guess not much going on in the world of OTA NYC



I know, Lexus,I know. I have seen your HD E.T.type antena headset gear picture, and your wife' rolling eyes, gracias senor; Alo


----------



## AloEuro

There is nothing better than experimentation until the nueva digital box becomes obsolete never dying topic. so I went with outdor Ant. back to ESB


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17447839
> 
> 
> I know, Lexus,I know. I have seen your HD E.T.type antena headset gear picture, and your wife' rolling eyes, gracias senor; Alo



you saved that?


----------



## AloEuro

No, my home PC does not have the capabilities,97 ? 98W,I keep it in my head,Alo.


----------



## AloEuro

One more time in regard to CBC2-1, most respondents are apparently HD wievers, and I have to agree with you gentlemen, as Trip put it, the one ch. does give pristine PQ compared to other TV subch., however, most users are catode/conv.boxTV OTA wievers for whom there is no difference in PQ of subch. therefore they would welcome more subch. the happy-go-lucky TVRemote scroll surfers.

Considering possibilities that 25% HD wievers count to produce 75% GNP, 1main ch. no subch. as ch.2CBC maintains would be beneficial to ch.2, but if the 25% HD users bring in 35-40% of GNP- GrossNationalProduct, then the 75% ovalTV/conv. box counting for 60-65% of GNP the happy-go surfing bored TV crowd spell troubles for the dinosaurs of CBS or any one ch. TV unless there is following.

The Nielsen ratings basically function on Andy Varhol quip of 15min. fame, if you see 15min of 1/2hr.-1hr sitcom, or 2-3hrs of entert.sport event, you have seen ad the advertisement-TV gurus want you to see to be exposed to.

The second most important matter in regard to infommercial is to be exposed to the ads, to see and hear it and hopefully in future to buy it, one main ch. gives less chance to see it than more sub ch. that is why we see one commercial on 2-3 stations same time.

Let's see what happens in future, seem to me there is not much future for 1ch only

unless existing programs rating equal the time of competitors ratings.Alo


----------



## R.F. Burns

Huh? Where did you get this?


"most users are catode/conv.boxTV OTA wievers for whom there is no difference in PQ of subch. therefore they would welcome

more subch."


That's quite an assumption you've made there. CBS is running full 1080 I with superior video, which is very obvious when viewing live sports events.



It may be true that there are certain areas where economics have limited the sales of modern HDTV's. However, you can't state with certainty that most viewers still receive HDTV signals with convertor boxes and NTSC CRT televisions. Go in to any store still selling TV's in the NY area and you'll be hard pressed to find CRT televisions for sale and those which are for sale are bottom priced units with limited appeal. The cost of LCD HDTV's continue to drop. I say, good for CBS who would rather provide a superior signal than 2 or more inferior signals with inferior programming.


Other than Jersey Public Television I find most of what is being broadcast over HD 2, 3 etc channels worthless. The novelty has worn off and as of yesterday all channels which #1, don't transmit English language programming (I speak only English and so it serves no purpose for me to have to scan through a dozen or so channels with no programming I can understand, so I've deleted those channels.) and HD2 channels which are only rebroadcasts of a group owners same market signals. IE; WNYW and WWOR's HD 2 channels. I've also deleted WNET's HD 2 channel. I have no young children at home any longer and to be honest I can't see the point of running children’s programming 24 hours a day, especially when the HD 1 also is airing children’s programming. At this point I have to ask, how many small children are watching WNET’s HD 2 between 9 PM & 5 AM?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/17457121
> 
> 
> Huh? Where did you get this?
> 
> 
> "most users are catode/conv.boxTV OTA wievers for whom there is no difference in PQ of subch. therefore they would welcome
> 
> more subch."
> 
> 
> That's quite an assumption you've made there. CBS is running full 1080 I with superior video, which is very obvious when viewing live sports events.
> 
> 
> From a friend who works for WNBC, I will pass this on to you. With HD signals being transmitted, many cable systems are now using OTA reception as the source for retransmission instead of fiber. What that means is that even for viewers who receive their signals over cable or satellite outlets, the video quality on channel 2 is superior to the competition.
> 
> 
> 
> It may be true that there are certain areas where economics have limited the sales of modern HDTV's. However, you can't state with certainty that most viewers still receive HDTV signals with convertor boxes and NTSC CRT televisions. Go in to any store still selling TV's in the NY area and you'll be hard pressed to find CRT televisions for sale and those which are for sale are bottom priced units with limited appeal. The cost of LCD HDTV's continue to drop. I say, good for CBS who would rather provide a superior signal than 2 or more inferior signals with inferior programming.
> 
> 
> Other than Jersey Public Television I find most of what is being broadcast over HD 2, 3 etc channels worthless. The novelty has worn off and as of yesterday all channels which #1, don't transmit English language programming (I speak only English and so it serves no purpose for me to have to scan through a dozen or so channels with no programming I can understand, so I've deleted those channels.) and HD2 channels which are only rebroadcasts of a group owners same market signals. IE; WNYW and WWOR's HD 2 channels. I've also deleted WNET's HD 2 channel. I have no young children at home any longer and to be honest I can't see the point of running children's programming 24 hours a day, especially when the HD 1 also is airing children's programming. At this point I have to ask, how many small children are watching WNET's HD 2 between 9 PM & 5 AM?



ones that can not sleep? My guess


----------



## tryin2search

The switch to upper VHF has been a mixed bag so far. In Fairfield County where I setup my parents' OTA unit, it has tremendously improved reception. ABC, Pix11, and Ch 13 now come in consistently, the UHF channels remain strong or better.


However, I just moved over the weekend to a new place in lower Westchester. My room on the second floor has no cable, just the first floor, and the upper vhf channels have been spotty, especially ABC and PIX. The only thing that worked was having the dipoles fully extended and in the "down" position. This gets in the way of the door however.


The only thing I can think of is buying a small table and sticking it next to the window, with a southern view, and putting the antenna there. The antenna is one of the Terk "Silver Sensor" style antennas. Almost all the NY UHF channels except WLIW 21 come in fine.


Any suggestions?


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/17469568
> 
> 
> Any suggestions?



indoor antennas might not solve your problem.... i've tried many!


i have settled with the Winegard HD-7694P , placed indoors, on the 3rd floor of a building (10 miles away from ESB). guess what? i still cannot get CW-11. this antenna, however, solved my problems with ABC-7 and WNET-13. and i get all UHF stuff very well.


good luck!


----------



## reddice

Is CW-11 ever going to boost there power? They should since so many can't get it. With a antenna like that you should have had no problems. You probably can't put it outdoors. I can't put no antenna's outdoors either. I can get CW-11 but it is the weakest after moving one of the dipoles all the way up.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tryin2search* /forum/post/17469568
> 
> 
> The only thing I can think of is buying a small table and sticking it next to the window, with a southern view, and putting the antenna there.



Sounds like a plan, as a first step.



> Quote:
> The antenna is one of the Terk "Silver Sensor" style antennas.



Amplified or unamplified version?

Reason I ask is an amp can sometimes make a difference even on short cable runs, if the noise in the amp is lower than the noise in your tuner you will be able to get a lock on a lower power signal.



> Quote:
> Almost all the NY UHF channels except WLIW 21 come in fine.



WLIW is transmitting from Plainview, L.I. and chances are it may be too far off aim from the ESB (and too far away) for you to get. Go to tvfool.com to see the details of the signals available at your location. (Put in your exact address and antenna height for the most accurate report.)


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17474184
> 
> 
> Is CW-11 ever going to boost there power? They should since so many can't get it. With a antenna like that you should have had no problems. You probably can't put it outdoors. I can't put no antenna's outdoors either. I can get CW-11 but it is the weakest after moving one of the dipoles all the way up.



If you want to try some thing to get ch 11 better then try this.


If you have a set of rabbit ears, pull out the rods to to aprox 13.75 inches from the tip of each rod to the center. The rods should be horizontal or like flat. The total from tip to tip should be 27.5 inches. Then move it around & turn it & see how well you get ch11. That should be aprox the exact wave of ch 11 on those rabbit ears. So you have it maxed for ch 11.


If you try that & it helps; I can give you other tips how to connect it & not lose the other channels, if you want.


----------



## nycdigital09

looks like pbs wliw ch 21 has raised their power, i can pickup the signal from the back off my yagi antenna, as before the signal was too low.


----------



## nycdigital09

i forgot congrats to ny yankees they were the better team!!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17480580
> 
> 
> looks like pbs wliw ch 21 has raised their power, i can pickup the signal from the back off my yagi antenna, as before the signal was too low.



How much did the raise the power by? Do you live in Queens? I wonder if we can get it now? TV fool shows NO raise in power


Always wished they would put a repeater for WLIW in NYC


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17481666
> 
> 
> How much did the raise the power by? Do you live in Queens? I wonder if we can get it now? TV fool shows NO raise in power
> 
> 
> Always wished they would put a repeater for WLIW in NYC




The station is owned by WNET, Channel 13 and the organization is having deep financial problems.


Just take a look at this article.

http://neptune.observer.com/2009/med...furloughs-wnet


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17481789
> 
> 
> The station is owned by WNET, Channel 13 and the organization is having deep financial problems.
> 
> 
> Just take a look at this article.
> 
> http://neptune.observer.com/2009/med...furloughs-wnet



WOW you would think channel 13 would of had the foresight to add Channel 21 to NYC.


I guess money donations have dropped for them


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17481954
> 
> 
> WOW you would think channel 13 would of had the foresight to add Channel 21 to NYC.
> 
> 
> I guess money donations have dropped for them




and pay for the transmitter with what? 13 & 21 have extensive cable carriage from central NJ to hudson valley and parts of CT. the 5 boros have something like 90%+ cable penetration.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/17483494
> 
> 
> and pay for the transmitter with what? 13 & 21 have extensive cable carriage from central NJ to hudson valley and parts of CT. the 5 boros have something like 90%+ cable penetration.



they got 1. Why not two. PBS is free with grants from our government. no? And private donations


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17483615
> 
> 
> they got 1. Why not two. PBS is free with grants from our government. no? And private donations



Got one what? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I have to think that WNET simply recycled the analog 13 gear that was already in place on Empire for digital.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

i just wish they carried "PBS World" on both ch13 and ch21....


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17484260
> 
> 
> Got one what? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I have to think that WNET simply recycled the analog 13 gear that was already in place on Empire for digital.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip, no correction necessary, as usual, you're absolutely right!


First, the old analog, VHF Combiner, which had WNET as a tenant, is now being used by digital WNET along with WABC and WPIX.


Second, WNET's analog transmitter was reconfigured to digital.


One half of the transmitter was converted to digital operation before the transition while allowing the remaing half to continue to be operated at full power. After the transition, the other half of the transmitter was then converted.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17483615
> 
> 
> they got 1. Why not two. PBS is free with grants from our government. no? And private donations



even if WNET/WLIW wanted to add a 2nd transmitter in NYC, it's not easy and i'm sure they are not even thinking about it. WLIW has decent coverage to the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, and east side of manhattan. the numbers of viewers gained would not result in additional donations to cover the cost of running the transmitter.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/17487712
> 
> 
> even if WNET/WLIW wanted to add a 2nd transmitter in NYC, it's not easy and i'm sure they are not even thinking about it. WLIW has decent coverage to the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, and east side of manhattan. the numbers of viewers gained would not result in additional donations to cover the cost of running the transmitter.



We are in Queens and can not get WLIW at all.


ALL NYC towers come in at 80% and above


My aunt would really enjoy WLIW.


AND yes I tried the new C2 Clearstream antenna. No difference then the old one. So it went back to store.


If WLIW went to NYC then she would get it for sure.


We still do not know how much WLIW boosted power as other poster stated. If at all


Anyway our discussion is meaningless. I e-mailed WLIW and asked them. Will post the answer


----------



## SnellKrell

According to Trip's compilation of FCC records:


WLIW applied for a increase in power on 6/23/08 - to go from 89.9kW up to 251kW.


From the files I found, as of yet, the FCC has not granted this request.


Therefore, if someone is enjoying better reception of the station, enjoy it for as long as it lasts, it's probably due to atmospheric conditions.


----------



## nycdigital09

lexus, i can pickup 21 signal ok , i think it could be the leafs are gone from the trees. i dont have my antenna pointed toward long island, instead is pointed northwest, towards upstate ny, the reason is i dont have a line of sight, i have co-ops across the street from me. the building bounce the signal, thats how i can pickup connecticut and long island. i have a channel master uhf yagi type antenna is not too long, only 55 inches, i have a winegard 269 preamp is good for overload problems. what suprises me is that this antenna is very good on vhf 7,11,13 come in at 100% i can get uhf station from hartford depending on atmospheric conditions.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17488070
> 
> 
> WLIW applied for a increase in power on 6/23/08 - to go from 89.9kW up to 251kW.



great news! how likely are they to be granted the boost? is there any channels in the way? reason why i ask is because ABC's request resulted in nothing.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17488070
> 
> 
> According to Trip's compilation of FCC records:
> 
> 
> WLIW applied for a increase in power on 6/23/08 - to go from 89.9kW up to 251kW.
> 
> 
> From the files I found, as of yet, the FCC has not granted this request.
> 
> 
> Therefore, if someone is enjoying better reception of the station, enjoy it for as long as it lasts, it's probably due to atmospheric conditions.



What would that do to the range? 3times further?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17490509
> 
> 
> What would that do to the range? 3times further?



No. But it will give you about 4 or 5 db more signal with which to try to overcome any RF noise that you're dealing with. People with weak signals (fringe areas) might get more reliable reception, but I expect that people in strong signal areas who are dealing with severe multipath will have stronger reflected signals that continue to interfere with their stronger primary signals.


----------



## KML-224




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17488802
> 
> 
> What surprises me is that this antenna is very good on VHF. Channels 7, 11 and 13 come in at 100%. I can get the UHF stations from Hartford, depending on atmospheric conditions.



Seeing how you're getting those three high band VHF stations so well, are you sure the Connecticut station isn't WTNH-DT (ABC)? They're on channel 10, licensed to New Haven and transmit from Madmere Mountain in Hamden, CT. They still ID on the air as NewsChannel 8, just like in their analog days.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17490966
> 
> 
> No. But it will give you about 4 or 5 db more signal with which to try to overcome any RF noise that you're dealing with. People with weak signals (fringe areas) might get more reliable reception, but I expect that people in strong signal areas who are dealing with severe multipath will have stronger reflected signals that continue to interfere with their stronger primary signals.



What about people who do not get any signal from WLIW?


5db is not alot. So I am thinking it will not help the people who can not get it at all 15db could of helped imo


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17493768
> 
> 
> What about people who do not get any signal from WLIW?
> 
> 
> 5db is not alot. So I am thinking it will not help the people who can not get it at all 15db could of helped imo



It actually works out closer to 4.5dB (4.46dB to be exact







)


Keeping in mind that a 3dB gain is doubling the power, I think this actually may make a significant difference - and certainly for all those that were on the cusp of the digital cliff when receiving WLIW, the increase should bring home a reliable solid lock for them.


Look at it this way, if you were comparing two different antennas and there was a 4.5dB difference in gain between them, don't you think that would equate to a significant difference in performance?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/17496622
> 
> 
> It actually works out closer to 4.5dB (4.46dB to be exact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> Keeping in mind that a 3dB gain is doubling the power, I think this actually may make a significant difference - and certainly for all those that were on the cusp of the digital cliff when receiving WLIW, the increase should bring home a reliable solid lock for them.
> 
> 
> Look at it this way, if you were comparing two different antennas and there was a 4.5dB difference in gain between them, don't you think that would equate to a significant difference in performance?



Well she used to get WLIW sometimes on Analog. Nothing at all with Digital. Yes I moved Antenna closer and different spots. It is too bad the WLIW signal is 180 degrees from all other stations in NYC.


She is 86 and would enjoy lawernce welk and other shows like that.


Yes I changed the cable to HD ready cable and got 3 to 6 more signal strength. I did everything I could. Even tried the clearstream 2. Bought a BIG WOOD POLE to hold it up. Now all I got is a BIG POLE. It is for sale lol. Maybe Ebay? hehe


To be honest she gets 31 to 33 channels including subs. She gets all the Majors in very strong. So just that is better then analog. Guess we should count our blessings.


Here is a copy of the TVfool for her. You will see WLIW is -55.5 She does get channel 17.1 which is -52.3 But it just comes in on the box at 66 signal strength. At 60 we will get pixlation.


HERE is The TV FOOL
http://i33.tinypic.com/v7wh9d.png


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17497811
> 
> 
> Well she used to get WLIW sometimes on Analog. Nothing at all with Digital. Yes I moved Antenna closer and different spots. It is too bad the WLIW signal is 180 degrees from all other stations in NYC.
> 
> 
> She is 86 and would enjoy lawernce welk and other shows like that.
> 
> 
> Yes I changed the cable to HD ready cable and got 3 to 6 more signal strength. I did everything I could. Even tried the clearstream 2. Bought a BIG WOOD POLE to hold it up. Now all I got is a BIG POLE. It is for sale lol. Maybe Ebay? hehe
> 
> 
> To be honest she gets 31 to 33 channels including subs. She gets all the Majors in very strong. So just that is better then analog. Guess we should count our blessings.



Can't tell if your antenna is outdoors or indoors.


Since Channel 21 is important to your aunt, have you thought of a second antenna aimed toward Plainview, LI to pick up 21?


Just a thought.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17497874
> 
> 
> Can't tell if your antenna is outdoors or indoors.
> 
> 
> Since Channel 21 is important to your aunt, have you thought of a second antenna aimed toward Plainview, LI to pick up 21?
> 
> 
> Just a thought.



Indoor Terk 55


She lives in a apartment. Her window faces NYC. The rest of the building is Where 21 is coming from.


The terk is an indoor/outdoor antenna. I tried the clearstream2 OUTDOOR antenna (inside) with same results as terk. So I returned it.


They used to have a MASTER antenna on top of the building but seems managment made a deal with RCN and took it down. To force people to get cable.


Just spoke to her. Yes she would love WLIW. It is too bad. Her type of programs.


I posted her TVfool on my last post for you to look at


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17497977
> 
> 
> Indoor Terk 55
> 
> 
> She lives in a apartment. Her window faces NYC. The rest of the building is Where 21 is coming from.
> 
> 
> The terk is an indoor/outdoor antenna. I tried the clearstream2 OUTDOOR antenna (inside) with same results as terk. So I returned it.
> 
> 
> They used to have a MASTER antenna on top of the building but seems managment made a deal with RCN and took it down. To force people to get cable.
> 
> 
> Just spoke to her. Yes she would love WLIW. It is too bad. Her type of programs.
> 
> 
> I posted her TVfool on my last post for you to look at




What floor is she on?


If that chennel is that important, I would buy an out door yagi uhf antenna & see how well it works. If it works well in the floor then i would try it inder a bed.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17500043
> 
> 
> What floor is she on?
> 
> 
> If that chennel is that important, I would buy an out door yagi uhf antenna & see how well it works. If it works well in the floor then i would try it inder a bed.



Sounds like she's got a whole building between her and WLIW, and if she can't pick up a reflected signal from her westerly facing window she's probably screwed.


Unless...


I bet if you built a Grey-Hoverman (or an mclapp 4-bay bowtie) without a reflector, on some PVC and put it on the roof aimed due east-west it would get all the UHF - both from the ESB & WLIW. (And probably then some) Then join it to her Terk indoors with a UVSJ,
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...iners&sku=UVSJ 

so the Terk is getting her VHF from the ESB as it is now. shouldn't cost you $20










Bring the cable in the window if you have to.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...FC300LX)#xview 


All's you gotta do is schmoose the super a little


----------



## Trip in VA

Is anyone seeing a signal on channel 26? WRNN-LD filed a license app for a highly directional channel 26 signal. I'm wondering if it's simulcasting WRNN-48.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1302862.html 


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17502029
> 
> 
> Is anyone seeing a signal on channel 26? WRNN-LD filed a license app for a highly directional channel 26 signal. I'm wondering if it's simulcasting WRNN-48.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1302862.html
> 
> 
> - Trip



Nada!


My antennas are oriented to the S.S.W. to pick up ESB and 4TS transmissions; Long Island is East of me.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17500043
> 
> 
> What floor is she on?
> 
> 
> If that chennel is that important, I would buy an out door yagi uhf antenna & see how well it works. If it works well in the floor then i would try it inder a bed.



A high floor of the building. Can not put a 200 pound antenna in the apartment lol


pic:

http://www.empresal.com/ebaypictures...nanra3000B.jpg


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17502029
> 
> 
> Is anyone seeing a signal on channel 26? WRNN-LD filed a license app for a highly directional channel 26 signal. I'm wondering if it's simulcasting WRNN-48.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1302862.html
> 
> 
> - Trip



WRNN-TV is an independent television station licensed to Kingston, New York, USA. Broadcasting on digital channel 48, WRNN broadcasts a schedule of mainly infomercials and home shopping programming. The station's studios are located in Rye Brook, New York, and its transmitter is based on Beacon Mountain. WRNN also programs a low-power translator station, WRNN-LP (analog channel 57), based in Nyack, New York.

*NOT missing much if we don't get it huh?*


----------



## NervousCat

Pete Putman has a new article on hdtvexpert.com about his house calls to fix DTV reception. One visit was to the rooftop of a house in Wall, NJ.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/UpOnTheRoof.html


----------



## NervousCat

By the way, for any fans of "Ask This Old House", I heard on the next episode (7:30PM Saturday on WNET Channel 13) Kevin O'Connor is going to make a house call on someone with poor DTV reception.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17502029
> 
> 
> Is anyone seeing a signal on channel 26? WRNN-LD filed a license app for a highly directional channel 26 signal. I'm wondering if it's simulcasting WRNN-48.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1302862.html
> 
> 
> - Trip



From Poughkeepsie, I only receive 48 (11 miles line of sight from Mt. Beacon).


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17502564
> 
> 
> A high floor of the building. Can not put a 200 pound antenna in the apartment lol
> 
> 
> pic:
> 
> http://www.empresal.com/ebaypictures...nanra3000B.jpg



WOW that is a big antenna.


But that is not what I was talking about.


The antenna akahooper stated would be a good one to try. It will fit in the back of a closet or behind the curtain at the window.


How well did she receive ch 21 when it was analog?


Did it have any ghost in it or was it just snowy?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/17504093
> 
> 
> Pete Putman has a new article on hdtvexpert.com about his house calls to fix DTV reception. One visit was to the rooftop of a house in Wall, NJ.
> 
> http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/UpOnTheRoof.html



It's amazing to me to see the antennas that he's using in Wall, NJ to pick up NYC broadcasts. I'm actually just a few miles closer to Empire and I'm using Winegard's largest dual-band antenna (HD7698P) in my attic, and I was having so much trouble with WNET that I gave up and pulled it from my tuners' channel lists. Most other channels are acceptable, though. He's using two antennas that, combined, total up to far less boom length and similarly less gain, and he's picking up all of the stations that I'm struggling to receive. I just don't get it.


I really wish I had access to a spectrum analyzer like he has. I expect that it would really uncover some issues that I just can't detect without the right test equipment. But that puppy runs over a couple of grand - that's serious $$$! I doubt that I can even rent one somewhere for a reasonable rate. Anybody have any ideas about this?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17508255
> 
> 
> WOW that is a big antenna.
> 
> 
> But that is not what I was talking about.
> 
> 
> The antenna akahooper stated would be a good one to try. It will fit in the back of a closet or behind the curtain at the window.
> 
> 
> How well did she receive ch 21 when it was analog?
> 
> 
> Did it have any ghost in it or was it just snowy?



21 was in and out as a analog station


Link to the antenna you are talking about pls


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17508657
> 
> 
> It's amazing to me to see the antennas that he's using in Wall, NJ to pick up NYC broadcasts. I'm actually just a few miles closer to Empire and I'm using Winegard's largest dual-band antenna (HD7698P) in my attic, and I was having so much trouble with WNET that I gave up and pulled it from my tuners' channel lists. Most other channels are acceptable, though. He's using two antennas that, combined, total up to far less boom length and similarly less gain, and he's picking up all of the stations that I'm struggling to receive. I just don't get it.
> 
> 
> I really wish I had access to a spectrum analyzer like he has. I expect that it would really uncover some issues that I just can't detect without the right test equipment. But that puppy runs over a couple of grand - that's serious $$$! I doubt that I can even rent one somewhere for a reasonable rate. Anybody have any ideas about this?




Get your antenna out of the attic and higher in the air.


This isn't magic, it's physics. He has better toys in his toolbox and the experience to know what is most likely to work. The "average Joe" has neither.


FWIW, a basic SA starts at around $700 on ebay for a Chinese import. You can usually find a handheld SA such as a Sencore 1454 or 1456 for $300-$600 if you're patient and persistent.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17509139
> 
> 
> Get your antenna out of the attic and higher in the air.
> 
> 
> This isn't magic, it's physics. He has better toys in his toolbox and the experience to know what is most likely to work. The "average Joe" has neither.
> 
> 
> FWIW, a basic SA starts at around $700 on ebay for a Chinese import. You can usually find a handheld SA such as a Sencore 1454 or 1456 for $300-$600 if you're patient and persistent.



Maybe he can't just like I can't put an antenna on the roof for my aunt. Some places won't allow that.


If I thought a C4 clearstream would work I would of tried it. The C2 did NO better then the Terk 55. Inside. Strange as it may seem.


----------



## Trip in VA

I just bought a portable spectrum analyzer on eBay and I love it. Sencore SLM1456CM (on ProjectSHO89's advice). I'll be in Fair Lawn around the New Year to visit relatives, but it's probably too far for me to come visit you with it, unfortunately.


If there's someone closer who might like me to visit with it, though, I can discuss with my parents and see.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17509551
> 
> 
> I just bought a portable spectrum analyzer on eBay and I love it. Sencore SLM1456CM (on ProjectSHO89's advice). I'll be in Fair Lawn around the New Year to visit relatives, but it's probably too far for me to come visit you with it, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> If there's someone closer who might like me to visit with it, though, I can discuss with my parents and see.
> 
> 
> - Trip



What can it do for you ? Just curious


----------



## Trip in VA

Well, it does more than I use it for.


The key features are that it'll show what the signals look like just like an ordinary spectrum analyzer. But on top of that, assuming it can decode the signal, it'll provide a SNR (signal-noise ratio) reading and BER (bit-error rate) reading. It's an extremely useful tool and I just love it. If I didn't have school work to do, I probably would not have put it down at all since I got it.


- Trip


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17509139
> 
> 
> Get your antenna out of the attic and higher in the air.
> 
> 
> This isn't magic, it's physics.



Like Lexus said, it's not always that easy. In my case, I'm in a historic preservation district, and SOMEBODY might get their panties all wadded up about this. As per the HPD's rules, I can't have a roof antenna or a dish. However, there are people who have them anyway, and apparently get away with it. I'm trying to avoid the the dispute. Besides, attic antennas are easier to install/maintain.



> Quote:
> He has better toys in his toolbox and the experience to know what is most likely to work. The "average Joe" has neither.



A scientifically-minded average Joe starts off "above average," and toys like these can be purchased, rented or borrowed. Once such toys are in-hand, "Joe" can gain some experience with them, and the next thing you know, he's getting the job done, just like the big kids do with their big toys.


These solutions are not so far out of reach as your initial comments seemed to suggest. With that said, I appreciate that you posted an update.



> Quote:
> FWIW, a basic SA starts at around $700 on ebay for a Chinese import. You can usually find a handheld SA such as a Sencore 1454 or 1456 for $300-$600 if you're patient and persistent.



Hmmm... $300 to $600 for a new toy, or $20 to $60 per month, times "forever," to the evil cable/satellite companies? I can always resell the new toy after it has done its job.


Then again, I might just try the roof mount first!


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17509551
> 
> 
> I just bought a portable spectrum analyzer on eBay and I love it. Sencore SLM1456CM (on ProjectSHO89's advice). I'll be in Fair Lawn around the New Year to visit relatives, but it's probably too far for me to come visit you with it, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> If there's someone closer who might like me to visit with it, though, I can discuss with my parents and see.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I spent my first six years in Fair Lawn: 2-16 30th St! (That was nearly 40 years ago!)


Agreed that it's too far. I wouldn't ask you to travel like that, unless you were really up for a road trip to the shore and would accept a ride in both directions. And a good meal.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17510483
> 
> 
> I spent my first six years in Fair Lawn: 2-16 30th St! (That was nearly 40 years ago!)
> 
> 
> Agreed that it's too far. I wouldn't ask you to travel like that, unless you were really up for a road trip to the shore and would accept a ride in both directions. And a good meal.



I got your e-mail and will answer there after running it by my parents.


And I'm staying with my grandparents on Morlot Avenue. Not a bad place for reception, I've found.


- Trip


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/17504164
> 
> 
> From Poughkeepsie, I only receive 48 (11 miles line of sight from Mt. Beacon).



Hey Nervous, I think you're exaggerating! If you get WRNN-48, surely you get WTBY-27 as well! What would we Poughkeepsians do without our 5 SD Gospel channels (WTBY), 1 SD infomercial channel (WRNN), and 1 SD Chinese Propaganda (WRNN-48.2) channel!


With a little work you should be able to pull in W42AE for some Analog PBS goodness, too!


It's all good! Who needs commercial National Network OTA TV anyway?!? Apparently not the roughly 250,000 residents of Southern Dutchess County.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

My point is that antenna location is a lot like real estate's three most important things...


Just because you either desire to put antenna in an attic because its easier or do not have the alternative of mounting one externally, doesn't mean that an antenna will work in the attic. If the signal isn't physically present in adequate strength and quality in the attic, you simply cannot receive it in that location regardless of the antenna you try. That's the bottom line.


Location, location, location.


Hey, Trip needs a field project for his new playtoy....


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17510186
> 
> 
> What can it do for you ? Just curious



Think of it as an oscilloscope for the RF spectrum.


At basic levels, it allows the operator to 1) Measure signal power and signal-to-noise ratios - both critical parameters for digital reception and 2) SEE a graphical representation of the signal - ideal for analyzing multi-path related reception problems.


Beyond that, it depends on the individual device's specific features.


For example, consider the following photo of my 1454:











These are UHF channels 24 and 26 in St louis at a location where there is no LOS to the towers. The signals are reflected off a nearby hill and some trees.


The signal on the right, channel 26, is of excellent quality with a relatively smooth top of the waveform. In contrast, the waveform on the left, channel 24, is ridden with multi-path and would likely be broken reception-wise for tuners that don't have good capabilities of dealing with such a distorted signal. My little Artec T18AR, BTW, handles it pretty well.


When installing an antenna and using an SA, you'd adjust the antenna so that all the desired channels feature the best combination of signal strength (amplitude) and quality (flatness) making whatever compromises might be necessary to give the best overall signals.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/17511096
> 
> 
> Hey Nervous, I think you're exaggerating! If you get WRNN-48, surely you get WTBY-27 as well!



Sure I can get WTBY. I can pick that one up using a paperclip as an antenna. I was replying to Trip's inquiry about WRNN-LD 26. What I meant was I can only get 48 (WRNN) and not 26 (WRNN-LD). After looking at the coverage map or WRNN-LD, I realize I am too far upstate to pick it up anyway (and WTBY is adjacent on 27).


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17512236
> 
> 
> 
> For example, consider the following photo of my 1454: [...]
> 
> 
> The signal on the right, channel 26, is of excellent quality with a relatively smooth top of the waveform. In contrast, the waveform on the left, channel 24, is ridden with multi-path and would likely be broken reception-wise for tuners that don't have good capabilities of dealing with such a distorted signal.



very nice toy, indeed. could save someone lots of work by cutting the amount of guesses to a minimum. too bad it's expensive.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/17513319
> 
> 
> very nice toy, indeed. could save someone lots of work by cutting the amount of guesses to a minimum. too bad it's expensive.



The best tools for a specific job are rarely inexpensive. Your independent mechanic probably spent at least $2500 for that SnapOn scan tool so he can work on your car's computerized control systems. You can buy a scanner unit for $200, but the SnapOn, in the hands of a trained person, will run circles around the $200 unit from the auto parts store.


I lucked out and got my well-used Secore off Craigslist for a bit over $200. It was $1500 list price brand new. Even after buying a power supply and new faceplate lens from Sencore and making a new rechargeable battery pack, I still have less than $300 invested.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17513471
> 
> 
> The best tools for a specific job are rarely inexpensive. Your independent mechanic probably spent at least $2500 for that SnapOn scan tool so he can work on your car's computerized control systems.



True, but the independent mechanic bought that tool for his business. I doubt any shadetree mechanic would buy that for use at home. Pete Putman probably bought his spectrum analyzer for his business, ROAM Consulting LLC. There's probably not much demand for a scaled back cheaper device aimed at non-commercial consumers. That's why eBay exists. ;-)


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17508714
> 
> 
> 21 was in and out as a analog station
> 
> 
> Link to the antenna you are talking about pls



Hello lexus,

The details/dim's of the Grey-Hoverman I am referring to can be found on my site, on SBGH-6 page. Link in my sig.

While not ideal, for indoor use you could just bend up some wire to make the elements and screw to a board I suppose.


Here's a couple of youtube vids of a properly dimensioned mclapp 4-bay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8jsDxNgHn4 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcUSW2l6MSI 

Again, you wouldn't want the reflector(s).


And a technique for straightening wire that makes it much easier to make nice elements:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8HoeP9beYE


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/17517876
> 
> 
> Hello lexus,
> 
> The details/dim's of the Grey-Hoverman I am referring to can be found on my site, on SBGH-6 page. Link in my sig.
> 
> While not ideal, for indoor use you could just bend up some wire to make the elements and screw to a board I suppose.
> 
> 
> Here's a couple of youtube vids of a properly dimensioned mclapp 4-bay:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8jsDxNgHn4
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcUSW2l6MSI
> 
> Again, you wouldn't want the reflector(s).
> 
> 
> And a technique for straightening wire that makes it much easier to make nice elements:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8HoeP9beYE



And this will do better then a Terk 55 or Clearsteam c2?


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17518068
> 
> 
> And this will do better then a Terk 55 or Clearsteam c2?



In the apartment, with no reflector - hard to say.

What's nice is it's almost too freakin easy to bend up some wire and try a Grey-Hoverman w/o a reflector. 10' of wire, 6 screws & flat washers, a balun and a board. Don't worry about the feedgap of 3.5" this isn't critical. Anywhere close will do, so you could use a 1"x4" to mount to, ending up with around 3" will be fine.


Like David-the-dtv-ma says, putting an eye-hook in the end of the board & hanging it in the window would be giving it your best shot short of getting it on the roof. (You still may need the Terk for it's VHF, and join the two with a UVSJ.)


What I was originally saying is to bribe the super with a 6-pack (12-pack?







) and sneak one of these on the roof, where it can receive UHF from both directions.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17518068
> 
> 
> And this will do better then a Terk 55 or Clearsteam c2?



I don't know about those, but this link has some comparisons to other commercial antennas.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/supera...erformance.htm 


The specs are here:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/design.htm


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/17518694
> 
> 
> In the apartment, with no reflector - hard to say.
> 
> What's nice is it's almost too freakin easy to bend up some wire and try a Grey-Hoverman w/o a reflector. 10' of wire, 6 screws & flat washers, a balun and a board. Don't worry about the feedgap of 3.5" this isn't critical. Anywhere close will do, so you could use a 1"x4" to mount to, ending up with around 3" will be fine.
> 
> 
> Like David-the-dtv-ma says, putting an eye-hook in the end of the board & hanging it in the window would be giving it your best shot short of getting it on the roof. (You still may need the Terk for it's VHF, and join the two with a UVSJ.)
> 
> 
> What I was originally saying is to bribe the super with a 6-pack (12-pack?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and sneak one of these on the roof, where it can receive UHF from both directions.



They wont do it period. I did try the terk and C2 in window with no difference at all.


Would hate to do all that work and drive 2:30 hours to find out it is the same thing


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17508714
> 
> 
> 21 was in and out as a analog station
> 
> 
> Link to the antenna you are talking about pls



This antenna would fit in a closet.

http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...le-p-6356.html 


This one might fit under a bed.

http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...em-p-6565.html 


But the side ways V or really 

What kind of antenna was she using when was receiving 21 while it was on analog?


If the 21 digital transmitter is still using the broadcast antenna they used for analog she should receive something from 21 now that it is digital.


An indoor amp may help but it will need to have a low noise amp. Channel master had one model 3042. But I can not find it available on the web. The noise was as good as the our door pre amps at 3.5 db noise.


K mart has had them but theirs was not as good with a noise of 5 db.




Sorry for the delay in reply but my PC operating system got messed up & would not run. I am using another PC to get back to you.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17522358
> 
> 
> This antenna would fit in a closet.
> 
> http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...le-p-6356.html
> 
> 
> This one might fit under a bed.
> 
> http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...em-p-6565.html
> 
> 
> But the side ways V or really
> 
> What kind of antenna was she using when was receiving 21 while it was on analog?
> 
> 
> If the 21 digital transmitter is still using the broadcast antenna they used for analog she should receive something from 21 now that it is digital.
> 
> 
> An indoor amp may help but it will need to have a low noise amp. Channel master had one model 3042. But I can not find it available on the web. The noise was as good as the our door pre amps at 3.5 db noise.
> 
> 
> K mart has had them but theirs was not as good with a noise of 5 db.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the delay in reply but my PC operating system got messed up & would not run. I am using another PC to get back to you.


*What kind of antenna was she using when was receiving 21 while it was on analog?*


the terk55


IS your computer a HP? If so what number and what type of HD does it use? SEAGATE?


If so this is a common failure of these HArd drive.


If this is the case PM for more details


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17522525
> 
> *What kind of antenna was she using when was receiving 21 while it was on analog?*
> 
> 
> the terk55
> 
> 
> IS your computer a HP? If so what number and what type of HD does it use? SEAGATE?
> 
> 
> If so this is a common failure of these HArd drive.
> 
> 
> If this is the case PM for more details



I believe the 2 antennas I have links for would by far exceed the signal than the terk55. You might need that indoor amp I stated so that the antennas have an amp to compare with the terk55 that has a built in amp; So you are comparing an apple to an apple not an apple to an orange because if the terk55 has an amp & the other antennas do not, it would not be a good to campare them with out an amp too.


I built my pc by buying the main board, cpu & etc.


The hard drive is western digital.


I was running Linux as the operating system.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17523607
> 
> 
> I believe the 2 antennas I have links for would by far exceed the signal than the terk55. You might need that indoor amp I stated so that the antennas have an amp to compare with the terk55 that has a built in amp; So you are comparing an apple to an apple not an apple to an orange because if the terk55 has an amp & the other antennas do not, it would not be a good to campare them with out an amp too.
> 
> 
> I built my pc by buying the main board, cpu & etc.
> 
> 
> The hard drive is western digital.
> 
> 
> I was running Linux as the operating system.



The terks amp can be turned on and off. There is little to no difference on.

*

I believe the 2 antennas I have links for would by far exceed the signal than the terk55"*


What about the CLEARSTREAM c2. How would they compare to that one. Since the C2 is rated very high and had same results as my old Terk 55. Very disapoitnting to say the least


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17523607
> 
> 
> I believe the 2 antennas I have links for would by far exceed the signal than the terk55. You might need that indoor amp I stated so that the antennas have an amp to compare with the terk55 that has a built in amp; So you are comparing an apple to an apple not an apple to an orange because if the terk55 has an amp & the other antennas do not, it would not be a good to campare them with out an amp too.
> 
> 
> I built my pc by buying the main board, cpu & etc.
> 
> 
> The hard drive is western digital.
> 
> 
> I was running Linux as the operating system.



Is this antenna and this other one the same? Same name? Different picture??

http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...le-p-6356.html 



Or

http://www.antennacraft.net/48Bay.html 


Wonder why they look different with same name? This is Antennacrafts main sight. I would likt o see your recommendation on the main site so I can see the dimensions.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17522251
> 
> 
> They wont do it period.



That's too bad, probably would've worked out mint.



> Quote:
> I did try the terk and C2 in window with no difference at all.
> 
> 
> Would hate to do all that work and drive 2:30 hours to find out it is the same thing



All WHAT work?

How long will it take you to bend 2 pieces of wire and screw it to a board???

And don't you visit from time to time?


GEEEEZE!


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/17525994
> 
> 
> That's too bad, probably would've worked out mint.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All WHAT work?
> 
> How long will it take you to bend 2 pieces of wire and screw it to a board???
> 
> And don't you visit from time to time?
> 
> 
> GEEEEZE!



Yes but have many personal things going on. She understands. When I go. It takes 5 hours between driving time and visit time.


Plus she gives me a hard time with new things. Especially UGLY things. The under bed would not work. Only behind dresser would work.


I really do not want to waste time unless I have a 80% chance of making things better


----------



## NervousCat

You can even skip the wire bending part if you use coat hangers as illustrated in this video.

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/200..._steadyca.html 


This apparently uses a different design than the one discussed in this thread, but the parts are easy to find around the house.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/17527231
> 
> 
> You can even skip the wire bending part if you use coat hangers as illustrated in this video.
> 
> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/200..._steadyca.html
> 
> 
> This apparently uses a different design than the one discussed in this thread, but the parts are easy to find around the house.



it was a real disappointment when the C2 failed to produce a better result. Besides the 5 to 6 hours wasted going there. I had to mail the dam thing back and cost me money to do that.


----------



## nycdigital09

lexus 2108 you should go ask tigerbangs on another website he has antenna remedy for you. with this noreaster i lost all my ota signals, i think i need a new antenna setup


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17525971
> 
> 
> Is this antenna and this other one the same? Same name? Different picture??
> 
> http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...le-p-6356.html
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> http://www.antennacraft.net/48Bay.html
> 
> 
> Wonder why they look different with same name? This is Antennacrafts main sight. I would likt o see your recommendation on the main site so I can see the dimensions.




The elements are shaped different.


Before I would drive to try any thing I would first try it at your home. I would check around & see what you can find local so it will be easy to return. Some walmarts have a phillips out door yagi antenna. But it is not listed on the web site. It is over priced at $99.00 but that is the kind I would try. If any deep fringe out door antennas you find local I would try them @ your home & see how well they work. Some state the db gain they have & that is like horse power to an engine. If it is not stated it must not be much good or too weak.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17525971
> 
> 
> Is this antenna and this other one the same? Same name? Different picture??
> 
> http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...le-p-6356.html
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> http://www.antennacraft.net/48Bay.html
> 
> 
> Wonder why they look different with same name? This is Antennacrafts main sight. I would likt o see your recommendation on the main site so I can see the dimensions.



The Summitsource is a G1483 [ORIGINAL] Hoverman design, and will not perform as well as a Grey-Hoverman as improved significantly by our Canadian friends, and outlined on my site. It is also mis-labeled: It should be referred to as a Double Bay, as one set of zig-zag elements constitutes a "Bay".


The Antennacraft are 4 & 8 Bay bowtie designs, and again will not perform as well as an mclapp perfected design.


What you must realize is many (most) antenna designs currently available commercially were for the entire UHF band - all the way to ch 83. Some were tweaked to improve performance by limiting the high end to ch 69, but even still we are now working only to ch 51 - so with a narrower bandwidth to cover the designs can be optimized to get more gain where it counts.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/17527231
> 
> 
> You can even skip the wire bending part if you use coat hangers as illustrated in this video.
> 
> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/200..._steadyca.html
> 
> 
> This apparently uses a different design than the one discussed in this thread, but the parts are easy to find around the house.



Firstly, he refers to the example in the video as a Hoverman antenna, which it is not - it is a 4-Bay Bowtie. (Actually he may have said Hooverman.







)

Secondly...

* the Bay spacing of 5-3/4" is too close & s/b 9" apart.

* The element length of 8" is too short - these s/b 9-1/2" Lg.

* The phase line spacing (The wires that run vertically and connect the elements) looks very wide - this s/b 1-1/4".

* The point at which the phase lines cross over each other should have a space of ~1" to approach the 1-1/4" phase line spacing throughout - a piece of electrical tape is not sufficient.

* And the 3" opening at the tips s/b ~5-1/2", though this is not too critical.


Earlier in the thread I posted links to vid's of a properly dimensioned 4-bay bowtie antenna.


It was a very nicely made video, however inaccurate it may be for optimum performance.










Seriously, to try a Grey-Hoverman w/o reflector has got to be the easiest and cheapest antenna you could ever try and make!


Here's your bill of materials:

(2) 5' long pieces of #8 or #10 solid copper wire

(1) 1"x4"x3' board

(6) #8 or #10 wood screws & flat washers

(1) balun - 300 to 75 ohm matching transformer (~$5)


Straighten your wires as per this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8HoeP9beYE 


Trim to the overall length calculated from the dim's for the elements on the SBGH-6 (Stands for Single Bay Grey-Hoverman, the 6 is for how many reflector rods is in the design) page of my site, and bend to said dim's.

Attach to board with wood screws & washers with 3" between the elements closest points, putting the balun in the middle - done.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17528856
> 
> 
> lexus 2108 you should go ask tigerbangs on another website he has antenna remedy for you. with this noreaster i lost all my ota signals, i think i need a new antenna setup



PM me the link pls


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17529038
> 
> 
> The elements are shaped different.
> 
> 
> Before I would drive to try any thing I would first try it at your home. I would check around & see what you can find local so it will be easy to return. Some walmarts have a phillips out door yagi antenna. But it is not listed on the web site. It is over priced at $99.00 but that is the kind I would try. If any deep fringe out door antennas you find local I would try them @ your home & see how well they work. Some state the db gain they have & that is like horse power to an engine. If it is not stated it must not be much good or too weak.



Ya thats the problem I live over 60 miles from the city. I get 2 stations here OTA. lol Everyone has cable or SAT here


I wish I could go OTA


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17532460
> 
> 
> Ya thats the problem I live over 60 miles from the city. I get 2 stations here OTA. lol Everyone has cable or SAT here
> 
> 
> I wish I could go OTA




That make your home a great place to test the antennas then.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17532499
> 
> 
> That make your home a great place to test the antennas then.



No HOA does not allow Antenna's on roof. :-(


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17532553
> 
> 
> No HOA does not allow Antenna's on roof. :-(


 http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html 


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17532573
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
> 
> 
> - Trip



This means they can not stop us?


----------



## Trip in VA

Basically. There are certain limits and restrictions but outright bans are not enforceable on your controlled property.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17532590
> 
> 
> Basically. There are certain limits and restrictions but outright bans are not enforceable on your controlled property.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Even controlled by a HOA? Do townhouses fall within the rules?


----------



## Trip in VA

From the document:


Q: I live in a townhome community. Am I covered by the FCC rule?


A: Yes. If you own the whole townhouse, including the walls and the roof and the land under the building, then the rule applies just as it does for a single family home, and you may be able to put the antenna on the roof, the exterior wall, the backyard or any other place that is part of what you own. If the townhouse is a condominium, then the rule applies as it does for any other type of condominium, which means it applies only where you have an exclusive use area. If it is a condominium townhouse, you probably cannot use the roof, the chimney, or the exterior walls unless the condominium association gives you permission. You may want to check your ownership documents to determine what areas are owned by you or are reserved for your exclusive use.


I don't know the ins and outs, not living in a townhouse.


- Trip


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17532622
> 
> 
> From the document:
> 
> 
> Q: I live in a townhome community. Am I covered by the FCC rule?
> 
> 
> A: Yes. If you own the whole townhouse, including the walls and the roof and the land under the building, then the rule applies just as it does for a single family home, and you may be able to put the antenna on the roof, the exterior wall, the backyard or any other place that is part of what you own. If the townhouse is a condominium, then the rule applies as it does for any other type of condominium, which means it applies only where you have an exclusive use area. If it is a condominium townhouse, you probably cannot use the roof, the chimney, or the exterior walls unless the condominium association gives you permission. You may want to check your ownership documents to determine what areas are owned by you or are reserved for your exclusive use.
> 
> 
> I don't know the ins and outs, not living in a townhouse.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks and now back to your original job of getting my aunt more OTA sub channels. lol


----------



## Trip in VA

I was not aware it was a job.










- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

(I speak only English and so it serves no purpose for me to have to scan through a dozen or so channels with no programming I can understand, so I've deleted those channels.) MR. R.F.Burns, I also do not speak Spanish, but I like to alert you to what you are missing.

The other day ch41.1- ch68.2 was giving Latin Grammy Avards with CC3 English subt. and most likely some other shows have also cc3.

Virtually all new 1 hour shows, novellas on ch.47-ch36 haveCC1espl and CC3 English subtitles.

The other day I watched on Vme13.3 no english subt. spanish movie shown twice in row to get the understanding of it, worthy film.

Nocturninos11.2 shows movies mostly gangsters films in CC3 some really funny shoot 'em all.

I have to say that Spanish TV is much more daring,better and it is harder to fall asleep since you have to read the subtitles. Alo.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17534802
> 
> 
> (I speak only English and so it serves no purpose for me to have to scan through a dozen or so channels with no programming I can understand, so I've deleted those channels.) MR. R.F.Burns, I also do not speak Spanish, but I like to alert you to what you are missing.
> 
> The other day ch41.1- ch68.2 was giving Latin Grammy Avards with CC3 English subt. and most likely some other shows have also cc3.
> 
> Virtually all new 1 hour shows, novellas on ch.47-ch36 haveCC1espl and CC3 English subtitles.
> 
> The other day I watched on Vme13.3 no english subt. spanish movie shown twice in row to get the understanding of it, worthy film.
> 
> Nocturninos11.2 shows movies mostly gangsters films in CC3 some really funny shoot 'em all.
> 
> I have to say that Spanish TV is much more daring,better and it is harder to fall asleep since you have to read the subtitles. Alo.



I tried CC3 English subt on the DTVpal and I can not get it to work for my aunt. Too bad she likes some of the Spanish programs


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17532553
> 
> 
> No HOA does not allow Antenna's on roof. :-(



That does not mean you can not go up & sit on the roof & test ant antenna ...or in your attic or in the floor of your house.


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17536130
> 
> 
> That does not mean you can not go up & sit on the roof & test ant antenna ...or in your attic or in the floor of your house.



I got a V shape roof. No place to really stand, but I see your point


----------



## akahooper

Hey Lexus,

You out on the Island?

What does your tvfool look like?


----------



## johnosolis

Northwestern Brooklyn here (East Williamsburg), where WNYE 25-1 has always come in at 100% and never 1 point lower. But, for the last few days it has flatlined at dead zero. Does anyone know if they have stopped transmitting?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/17536521
> 
> 
> Northwestern Brooklyn here (East Williamsburg), where WNYE 25-1 has always come in at 100% and never 1 point lower. But, for the last few days it has flatlined at dead zero. Does anyone know if they have stopped transmitting?




Just tried the station and nothing here on the Upper East Side, Manhttan.


Usually, I have no problem receiving 25-1.


----------



## StudioTech

Speaking of WNYE-DT, what happened to them going HD like the crawls said pre-transition?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17536570
> 
> 
> Just tried the station and nothing here on the Upper East Side, Manhttan.
> 
> 
> Usually, I have no problem receiving 25-1.



WNYE has has a problem from ESB due to transmitter issues since saturday morning.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/17536894
> 
> 
> WNYE has has a problem from ESB due to transmitter issues since saturday morning.



Didn't WNYE-DT, as of the transition, move to 4TS?


----------



## lexus2108




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/17536364
> 
> 
> Hey Lexus,
> 
> You out on the Island?
> 
> What does your tvfool look like?



Says ESB over 60 miles away. lol


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17536176
> 
> 
> I got a V shape roof. No place to really stand, but I see your point



You do not stand. You put the ladder to the the peak & go up there & sit on the peak of the v on the roof & hold the antenna. Have your wife look at the tv for the measurments of signal


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/17536521
> 
> 
> Northwestern Brooklyn here (East Williamsburg), where WNYE 25-1 has always come in at 100% and never 1 point lower. But, for the last few days it has flatlined at dead zero. Does anyone know if they have stopped transmitting?




they need to change a weak tube in the transmitter


----------



## LenL

Here's one for you experts to help answer.


As of the past 2 months or so 7.1 which is a middle of the pack VHF station as become my stongest channel. The signal measures in the mid to low 90s. Seeing this is a rather long term event and not due to something that happened one day or one week I can't see this is tropospheric.


Meanwhile 2.1 and 4.1 are in the 60's and 70's and I am having big problems with 2.1


Since I am using what is considered a UHF antenna (CM4228) I can't for the life of me figure out why a VHF channel 7.1 is now my best and UHF channels are a problem.


Is any else having this experience?


Could my antenna have moved a little?


----------



## nycdigital09

Len I have yagi uhf antenna on the roof of my 2 story house, i'm about 5 miles from esb. my strongest stations are high vhf also, saying that, channel 2 breaks up sometimes, yesterday during the jets game, which was a real downer, the signla its usually reliable, i think it could be something with the way the transmit their high definition signal, i noticed that when a tv station carries hd signal of 1080i, and 2 subs at 480i, their hd channel suffers from breakup, that happens with wnet 13. believe or not my strongest channel is not any of my locals, is channel 49 from bridgeport i get their signal near 100%. It's kind of oddity cos at tvfool is suppose to hard to get station, i get it near perfect now, the leaves are gone from trees i'm getting wliw ch 21 from plainview, relieably,


----------



## jpru34

The only stations that ever break up (in very high winds or poor weather) is channel 2 and sometimes 4. All the other stations never ever break up. Kind of weird.


----------



## nycdigital09

Len as i understand from reading in other websites the channel master 4228 is very good on high vhf, just curious can you get wliw signal or wedw 49 from where you are now, uhf part of that antenna 4228 is regarded as the one of most powerful out on the market.

good luck on your ota.


----------



## W1KNE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17543780
> 
> 
> Len I have yagi uhf antenna on the roof of my 2 story house, i'm about 5 miles from esb. my strongest stations are high vhf also, saying that, channel 2 breaks up sometimes,



Even though channel 2 is on UHF? How are the other stations that use the master UHF antenna coming in for you? (WNBC, WABC, WWOR)


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC unfortunately, no longer uses the "master UHF antenna."


WABC is a tenant of the VHF Combiner system on ESB along with WPIX and WNET.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17545553
> 
> 
> Len as i understand from reading in other websites the channel master 4228 is very good on high vhf, just curious can you get wliw signal or wedw 49 from where you are now, uhf part of that antenna 4228 is regarded as the one of most powerful out on the market.
> 
> good luck on your ota.



No I can't get those stations.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *W1KNE* /forum/post/17546321
> 
> 
> Even though channel 2 is on UHF? How are the other stations that use the master UHF antenna coming in for you? (WNBC, WABC, WWOR)



Max Signal Strength as reported by my Sharp LCD TV


2.1=0

4.1=40

5.1=90

7.1=91

9.1=51

11.1=68

13.1=38

25.1=0

31.1=0

41.1=84

47.1=0

50.1=71

58.1=53

63.1=0

66.1=0

68.1=69


----------



## reddice

WNYE had been dead for me for a few days not too. Getting 0.


As for VHF channels 7 and 13 are the strongest although channel 7 has been having more mulitpath issues lately. Keeps breaking up sometimes. Still not as bad as channel 47. When they moved from West Orange to the ESB my signal went from a solid strong 90's to 60's that keep breaking up to the single digits. That channel has bad multipath issues.


----------



## nycdigital09

Even though channel 2 is on UHF? How are the other stations that use the master UHF antenna coming in for you? (WNBC, WABC, WWOR)

__________________

--Mike Fitzpatrick

Broadcast Engineer


most of uhf channels are mid 80's signal bar, even though my antenna is pointed due north> cos i have buildings blockin my line of sight to ESB, plus i want to pickup additional channels pbs from connecticut. imho vhf signals are less constraint or easier to pickup than uhf signals, i can pickup vhf channel 8 from new haven with uhf antenna, while my uhf gives me trouble with station less than 5 miles away! let me know what your view is ?


----------



## W1KNE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17546342
> 
> 
> WABC unfortunately, no longer uses the "master UHF antenna."
> 
> 
> WABC is a tenant of the VHF Combiner system on ESB along with WPIX and WNET.




That is correct, and an oversight on my part. I apologize.


----------



## AloEuro

I did not have enough time then to explain it all, the CC3 applies ONLY to TV-CC , never to conv.box, my 13Sharp has only 1CC, I 've got 20Sony cc4-text4.

Conv box uses Service1-6, if the program is in spanish use S2 for ingles, if the program is English use Service2 for Spanish.

The Pal or any conv.box on 47 or any spanish would be Service2, enjoy, Alo.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17540530
> 
> 
> they need to change a weak tube in the transmitter



Wait ... DTV transmitters use vacuum tubes like a 1960s console TV?


----------



## Trip in VA

High-powered UHF transmitters generally use IOT Tubes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_output_tube 


- Trip


----------



## jchtrout1

Hi,

Does anyone know if they are doing work up on the ESB.

My NY channels have been on and off for the last 2 days.

I believe that 7,11, and 13 share the same combiner and they have really been on and off, but so has 5 and 9.

They have been pretty solid since the shutoff, with the exception of 2, of course and I know that 25 is still having problems with their transmitter.

I hope they havent reoriented again.

Any info would be a huge help.

Thanks much


----------



## SnellKrell

5 and 9 have been doing work - but have not lost signal from them.


The only difference I've noticed with the VHF Combiner stations is that 11's signal

seems worse.


When you talk about being off the air, what time of day?


Most stations broadcasting from the ESB, usually do their work between 1 - 5 a.m.


----------



## jchtrout1

Yesterday 5 and 9 were in and out in the morning until maybe around 9:00 am

Today, 7,11,13 as well as 5 and 9 have been in and out.

I come in around 7, so I dont know what was going on during the night.

I have a 150' tower with individual cut yagi's and all antennas showed crazy variations with signal on my analyzer.

After the leaves came down, my multipath issues were greatly reduced and my NY siganls have been rock solid, so I am hoping that what I,m seeing is just them working in NY and not reorientation of their antennas.


----------



## SnellKrell

As I mentioned, the only change I've noticed is a diminution of 11's signal.


Could your varying reception be due to atmospherics????


----------



## jchtrout1

I hope not. Historically, we have had co channel problems with NY during the summer, but usually this time of year, it isnt a problem. I have had some problems when our valley is shrouded in fog, but the high VHF hasnt been effected by this to any serious degree.

My base elevation is 650' plus another 150' tower, so NY has been pretty consistant, 60 miles out. In reality, I am probably asking too much in trying to pull out of market stations in consistantly, but I dont think I can convince 4000 seniors of that. It used to be soooooooo easy. LOL

Thanks


----------



## W1KNE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/17559939
> 
> 
> Wait ... DTV transmitters use vacuum tubes like a 1960s console TV?



Yes, most high power radio transmission uses tubes. Both for FM and TV. In TV , usually higher powered UHF transmitters have IOT's, as Trip said, but some do use Solid State (transistor). Tube transmitters are a lot more energy efficient and produce a better signal for digital than solid state rigs do. Most higher powered UHF TV transmitters have two or more tube transmitters, "combined" together to achieve the power level as well as provide some redundancy. This was more common in Analog where a much higher power is needed.


----------



## nycdigital09

len are you using a preamplifier like cm 7777 ? if not it would really help from where you are, i'm using a low power preamp like winegard hdp 269, my location is nearer to the tv towers, you're at least 30-40 miles out, put it this way it wouldnt hurt to try, specially if youre splitting your tv signal.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17563650
> 
> 
> As I mentioned, the only change I've noticed is a diminution of 11's signal.
> 
> 
> Could your varying reception be due to atmospherics????



Depends on whether you define atmospherics as sky noise or multipath. Generally, at these frequencies, some of the RF from the transmitting antenna is fired above the horizontal and is bent downward by the refractive index of the atmosphere. This RF arrives at the Rx delayed by this longer path and is *dynamic* multipath


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17566534
> 
> 
> len are you using a preamplifier like cm 7777 ? if not it would really help from where you are, i'm using a low power preamp like winegard hdp 269, my location is nearer to the tv towers, you're at least 30-40 miles out, put it this way it wouldnt hurt to try, specially if youre splitting your tv signal.



Actually I have 2 antennas mounted. Both with CM7777 preamps. I have the CM4228 mounted high up on my chimmney and about 10' below it a simple UHF bowtie antenna I found lying around. The simple bowtie feeds my PALDVR as it picks up 2.1, 4.1 better than the CM4228. The CM4228 has trouble with 2.1 (0 reception now) and 4.1 (picture breaks up) where most of the shows I watch/record are located.


What I find interesting is I split the the signal from the CM4228 and send it 70' to an upstairs SHARP LCD TV and that TV will pick up 2.1 although the signal is not that strong. I only send it about 10' from the preamp in the basement to the first floor TV and I can't get 2.1. I have tried all kinds of variations on splitting and not splitting the CM4228 signal, inputting to the TV or the DVRPAL and the results are the same. The first floor devices closest to the preamp can't get 2.1 at all or very well and the second floor TV can get it.


By the way this is a recent event as all summer 2.1 was coming in in the high 80s to low 90s reception wise and was along with 5.1 my strongest channel. Then all of a sudden 5.1 and 7.1 became my best channels and 2.1 bad.


However as I said the small bowtie has picked up 2.1 fine.


There is something strange going on....maybe with the coax, ground, or connectors. I have switched things around again and again, replaced coax inside etc.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17569816
> 
> 
> ... What I find interesting is I split the the signal from the CM4228 and send it 70' to an upstairs SHARP LCD TV and that TV will pick up 2.1 although the signal is not that strong. I only send it about 10' from the preamp in the basement to the first floor TV and I can't get 2.1. I have tried all kinds of variations on splitting and not splitting the CM4228 signal, inputting to the TV or the DVRPAL and the results are the same. *The first floor devices closest to the preamp can't get 2.1 at all or very well and the second floor TV can get it.*
> 
> 
> By the way this is a recent event as all summer 2.1 was coming in in the high 80s to low 90s reception wise and was along with 5.1 my strongest channel. Then all of a sudden 5.1 and 7.1 became my best channels and 2.1 bad.



Hi Len, how's it goin!









A couple of things to consider would be the change in those channel's output since summer - tvfool at my location out on L.I. says signal strength has dropped considerably since early/mid summer, I think (hope!) due to work on the ESB transmitters/antennas.


Another possibility is that we're talking UHF here and it will be considerably attenuated by the leaves on the trees. Add to that as I recall you also trimmed some trees at the end of summer letting even more signal thru - and now all the leaves are gone.


It may be that since the 7777 is a high gain amp, and your problem is with the TV closest to the amp, that you may be overloading the tuner. Just for giggles try putting a 2, or 3-way splitter in front of that 10' of cable to the 1st floor TV to drop the signal to be close to that which the upstairs TV sees, with a 70' cable run, and see if that makes a difference.



> Quote:
> However as I said the small bowtie has picked up 2.1 fine.
> 
> 
> There is something strange going on....



Since your location is on the downside of a hill you are probable looking at both refracted and reflected signals and the 4228 may be a little too high to be in a strong signal area, where the old corner reflector bowtie being a bit lower is in a strong spot - it doesn't take much difference in height to make all the difference between being in a hot spot or being in a null...


Or the corner reflector bowtie is a bit more directional than your 4228 and thus a bit more resistant to multipath at your location.


Or... the gain of the bowtie is lower than the 4228 and thus when amplified is still not overloading the tuner closest to it.


Some thoughts...


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17569816
> 
> 
> Actually I have 2 antennas mounted. Both with CM7777 preamps. I have the CM4228 mounted high up on my chimmney and about 10' below it a simple UHF bowtie antenna I found lying around.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> However as I said the small bowtie has picked up 2.1 fine.
> 
> 
> There is something strange going on.....



Maybe it has to do with the bowtie antenna being lower to catch signals that may be bending over the hill near your house. I noticed that in this article the antennas are placed low to the ground and angled slightly upward towards the hill take advantage of knife edge refraction. Here's the original article:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Re...TheFringe.html 


Here's the follow-up article.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/OutToTheFringe.html


----------



## LenL

Thanks Guys for the tips/ideas!


AKA....you sure have a great memory for my situation! You nailed it.


I have already tried sending the CM4228 right out of the preamp to the TV 10' away with no split, then tried sending a coax feed from a 2-way splitter and a 3-way splitter. 2.1 still did not come in at all. Zero.


Meanwhile like I said a TV on the second floor getting the feed from the basement to the attic and then across the attic floor and down a wall into another SHARP LCD can receive 2.1 with a signal in the 50's and hold it for the most part with some breakup.


This issue really has me puzzled. Makes no sense to me. Must be something stupid I am overlooking. I keep thinking about it and open to suggestions.


The CM4228 is a bit high up on the chimmeny and I dare say I don't think there is a rats chance in hell that I will climb that high up and try to move it lower or higher. It's not that it is so high for most people....but I am chicken.


----------



## LenL

Do you folks think there is any relation to the fact that I can receive 7.1 so strong (upper 80's and even low to mid 90s) and 2.1 seems to disappear?


Why is a VHF channel my best when I have what is considered a UHF antenna? In fact I can get 11.1, 13.1, 58.1 (8)....all VHF stations and I can't get 2.1. This seems very odd to me.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNYE (25.1) has returned OTA, albeit with a weak signal.


----------



## AloEuro

PIXch.11 staggers like drunkards, too high signal fluctuation, must adjust indoor control

ant.,and ch2CBC sometime too, their loss - my gain of time, ha,ha,ha.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17572171
> 
> 
> Do you folks think there is any relation to the fact that I can receive 7.1 so strong (upper 80's and even low to mid 90s) and 2.1 seems to disappear?
> 
> 
> Why is a VHF channel my best when I have what is considered a UHF antenna? In fact I can get 11.1, 13.1, 58.1 (8)....all VHF stations and I can't get 2.1. This seems very odd to me.



I think its not always about the signal strength, it may be more about signal radiation pattern and purity of signal (how strongs are the reflected signals causing impurities). During summer months 2.1, 4.1, 5.1 were consistetly strong for me. After the digital transition, I was not getting 11.1 at all and 7.1 and 13.1 were mutually exclusive, i.e. if one was coming, I was missing the other. Now as time progressed ABC improved considerably even though they are in VHF and now I get it reliably. Probably they did some thing on their side. After the leaves were gone, now I am getting 13.1 relliably during evening and night and 90% reliably during the day. 11.1 also improved a lot (I was not getting it at all before) and now I get it reliably during evening and night. And as you have noted and I have observed too, 4.1 now breaks up some time. Same with 2.1 too but less. FOX and ABC are the strongest for me. I wish all the stations move back to UHF and use pre-transition radiation schemes, but figured, that'll not happen at all.


----------



## LenL

Your experience with the NY channels is very much like mine. I don't know where you live but I feel better reading your post.


I still can't figure out though why a TV 10' from the preamp can't lock in channel 2.1 and another one getting a split signal more than 70' away can lock in at 55% with some breakup.


I will continue to work on it....though I am running out of options.


----------



## LenL

Can the lights on the ESb impact transmission?


Just wondering as it seems the lighting of the ESB is right up there where the anntenna's are. They have been doing a lot of fancy lighting of the ESB before and during all the holidays since September!


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17539418
> 
> 
> Says ESB over 60 miles away. lol



69 is over 60, and so is 96...










I'm on the south shore of Long Island at 58 1/2 miles out & pretty challenged - the north shore generally seems a bit better. If you're on the Island at >60 you may have an even worse shot. If however you're in Connecticut, the LI sound will be your friend and you should be in much better shape.










Where are you?

What does your tvfool look like?


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17572122
> 
> 
> AKA....you sure have a great memory for my situation! You nailed it.



Yeah, like a steel trap baby!







LOL



> Quote:
> I have already tried sending the CM4228 right out of the preamp to the TV 10' away with no split, then tried sending a coax feed from a 2-way splitter and a 3-way splitter. 2.1 still did not come in at all. Zero.



That would apparently eliminate overloading the tuner as a possibility...



> Quote:
> Meanwhile like I said a TV on the second floor getting the feed from the basement to the attic and then across the attic floor and down a wall into another SHARP LCD can receive 2.1 with a signal in the 50's and hold it for the most part with some breakup.
> 
> 
> This issue really has me puzzled. Makes no sense to me. Must be something stupid I am overlooking. I keep thinking about it and open to suggestions.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17576194
> 
> 
> ...I still can't figure out though why a TV 10' from the preamp can't lock in channel 2.1 and another one getting a split signal more than 70' away can lock in at 55% with some breakup.
> 
> 
> I will continue to work on it....though I am running out of options.



I assume you've tried different cables to the downstairs TV, thus eliminating any chance of a connector/cable problem?

Then next is to compare tuners at the same [close, 10'] location. You mention a Sharp TV, but I thought you said you were using the DTV Pal DVR at that location? If so, that may explain it as from what I've heard that has a far better tuner than the average TV...


----------



## AloEuro

Lexus, I like to add to CC, small TV like my 13Sharp have only one CC-1, more complicated and larger TV like Sony20+have CC1.2.3.4.+ Text1.2.3.4, the CC are only forTV,

The CC for Conv.box use only Service1-6.

INet/Tivax type have small letter Service CC, no good, another box Coship has excellent size sligthly larger than CC on SonyTV, but it has advantage that you Customize to transparent-translucent yellow or darker Large size Font4 or 7, so you can see through

the CC what's going on TV, as You know TV CC blocks the space, Enjoy, Alo.

The Service 1cc is in broadcast language, the S2cc is added tongue, S1ccEspanol/ S2ccEnglish and vice versa, I know the English majors have S2ccEspanol.

One more trick, if you have small screen tv13"+, first customize, use only Solid letters, then go Automatic, you get good small CC.


----------



## W1KNE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17576210
> 
> 
> Can the lights on the ESb impact transmission?
> 
> 
> Just wondering as it seems the lighting of the ESB is right up there where the anntenna's are. They have been doing a lot of fancy lighting of the ESB before and during all the holidays since September!




Not unless the lights were actually hung on the antennas on the mast, which they aren't. But to answer your question, no, they aren't.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/17576401
> 
> 
> Yeah, like a steel trap baby!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would apparently eliminate overloading the tuner as a possibility...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you've tried different cables to the downstairs TV, thus eliminating any chance of a connector/cable problem?
> 
> Then next is to compare tuners at the same [close, 10'] location. You mention a Sharp TV, but I thought you said you were using the DTV Pal DVR at that location? If so, that may explain it as from what I've heard that has a far better tuner than the average TV...



From the preamp I split the signal to feed the first floor TV and then the feed from the basement going to the second floor is through another splitter that is feeding the Sharp LCD in one room (that is the longer run from the basement of about 75') and an analog TV in another room (that is about 30' from the basement) with the signal coming to the TV via a converter box. As an aside I have 3 converter boxes that I have been using at various times and now I am using the PAL. Both TVs on the second floor receive 2.1. I tried going right from the preamp to the first floor TV and still no 2.1.


Yes I have tried all kinds of cable swapping with that first flloor TV but I will try some more to rule out that possibility. I think I ruled it out though.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17583448
> 
> 
> From the preamp I split the signal to feed the first floor TV and then the feed from the basement going to the second floor is through another splitter that is feeding the Sharp LCD in one room (that is the longer run from the basement of about 75') and an analog TV in another room (that is about 30' from the basement) with the signal coming to the TV via a converter box. As an aside I have 3 converter boxes that I have been using at various times and now I am using the PAL. Both TVs on the second floor receive 2.1. I tried going right from the preamp to the first floor TV and still no 2.1.



OK, lets go thru the numbers for each TV for ch 2.1 (RF33) from the amp, but not including the cable from the amp to the 1st 2-way splitter as it's a constant.

You didn't say how much cable is between the 1st & 2nd splitters, so I estimated it at 10'


Downstairs TV:

1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB

10' RG-6 cable = 0.53dB

Loss to tuner = 4.03dB


Digital box TV upstairs:

1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB

10'(?) RG-6 to bsmt = 0.53dB

2nd 2-way splitter = 3.5dB

30' RG-6 cable = 1.59dB

Loss to tuner = 9.1dB


Sharp TV upstairs:

1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB

10'(?) RG-6 to bsmt = 0.53dB

2nd 2-way splitter = 3.5dB

75' RG-6 cable = 3.98dB

Loss to tuner = 11.51dB


You're using a high gain amp in the 7777, intended to overcome a whole lot more than 4dB of loss.









You have a difference of over 5dB between the downstairs TV & the closer of the 2 upstairs that both work - the stronger of which is seeing only 31% of the power that the downstairs TV is.


Here's what I would try first: Add a 3-way splitter in *addition* to the 2-way you already have to the downstairs TV. Hook the feed up to one of the 7dB legs (not the 3.5) so you're adding in *another* 7dB of loss to that TV - thus putting the signal strength close to the signal level the Sharp is seeing.


Terminate the remaining ports to eliminate any possibility of creating multipath on the line from reflected signals on an open splitter. (If you don't have terminations just hook cables to your extra converter boxes.)



> Quote:
> Yes I have tried all kinds of cable swapping with that first flloor TV but I will try some more to rule out that possibility. I think I ruled it out though.



If you tried a different cable for the 10' run, and different legs of the splitter I doubt it's a cable/conn problem. (You did flip that 1st splitter didn't you?







)


----------



## tahoejoe

Anyone else having problems with FOX 5.1? Just checked my DVR and it was not coming in. 5.2 comes in fine as well as 9.2. It did not record Fringe on Thursday but it did record House fine on Monday. The rest of digital 2 thru 13 come in fine for me.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/17584419
> 
> 
> OK, lets go thru the numbers for each TV for ch 2.1 (RF33) from the amp, but not including the cable from the amp to the 1st 2-way splitter as it's a constant.
> 
> You didn't say how much cable is between the 1st & 2nd splitters, so I estimated it at 10'
> 
> 
> Downstairs TV:
> 
> 1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 10' RG-6 cable = 0.53dB
> 
> Loss to tuner = 4.03dB
> 
> 
> Digital box TV upstairs:
> 
> 1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 10'(?) RG-6 to bsmt = 0.53dB
> 
> 2nd 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 30' RG-6 cable = 1.59dB
> 
> Loss to tuner = 9.1dB
> 
> 
> Sharp TV upstairs:
> 
> 1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 10'(?) RG-6 to bsmt = 0.53dB
> 
> 2nd 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 75' RG-6 cable = 3.98dB
> 
> Loss to tuner = 11.51dB
> 
> 
> You're using a high gain amp in the 7777, intended to overcome a whole lot more than 4dB of loss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a difference of over 5dB between the downstairs TV & the closer of the 2 upstairs that both work - the stronger of which is seeing only 31% of the power that the downstairs TV is.
> 
> 
> Here's what I would try first: Add a 3-way splitter in *addition* to the 2-way you already have to the downstairs TV. Hook the feed up to one of the 7dB legs (not the 3.5) so you're adding in *another* 7dB of loss to that TV - thus putting the signal strength close to the signal level the Sharp is seeing.
> 
> 
> Terminate the remaining ports to eliminate any possibility of creating multipath on the line from reflected signals on an open splitter. (If you don't have terminations just hook cables to your extra converter boxes.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you tried a different cable for the 10' run, and different legs of the splitter I doubt it's a cable/conn problem. (You did flip that 1st splitter didn't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Both 2-way splitters are in the basement close to the preamp and only about 2' separate them.


As to your suggestion about adding another splitter to cut down on possible signal overload to the first floor TV ...I will try that today and get back to you. The downside that I see is that while I may now get 2.1 if that is truly the issue, I may lose signal on other channels. It will be interesting to see what happens! Terminating all of those outputs will be a challenge though.


Thanks!


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17583448
> 
> 
> From the preamp I split the signal to feed the first floor TV and then the feed from the basement going to the second floor is through another splitter that is feeding the Sharp LCD in one room (that is the longer run from the basement of about 75') and an analog TV in another room (that is about 30' from the basement) with the signal coming to the TV via a converter box. As an aside I have 3 converter boxes that I have been using at various times and now I am using the PAL. Both TVs on the second floor receive 2.1. I tried going right from the preamp to the first floor TV and still no 2.1.
> 
> 
> Yes I have tried all kinds of cable swapping with that first flloor TV but I will try some more to rule out that possibility. I think I ruled it out though.



Have you ever tried swapping the first floor TV with one or both of the second floor TVs or tuners? I'm thinking that there's either a difference in tuner sensitivity/selectivity/etc or there's some localized EMF noise near that first floor TV that such a swap might give you some clues about.


----------



## akahooper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17585817
> 
> 
> Both 2-way splitters are in the basement close to the preamp and only about 2' separate them.



The actual amp is on the mast at the antenna, the splitters in the bsmt are near (And hopefully after) the power injector. I just wanted to clarify you have the amp in the right place where it's doing the most good.


So we have a min difference of 4.67dB not 5.07 - a bit less but you still never know.



> Quote:
> Terminating all of those outputs will be a challenge though.



What you're doing is disconnecting the 10' cable from the 1st splitter, and adding either a short length of cable or a M/M feedthru to connect the 1st splitter's output to the input of the 3-way. Then connect the 10' cable to a 7dB output of the 3-way and terminate the remaining 2 ports. Lowe's by me sells a 4-pk of term's for ~$5.00 I think - or just connect your spare converter boxes w/cables as I mentioned.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17586174
> 
> 
> Have you ever tried swapping the first floor TV with one or both of the second floor TVs or tuners? I'm thinking that there's either a difference in tuner sensitivity/selectivity/etc or there's some localized EMF noise near that first floor TV that such a swap might give you some clues about.



This may very well be the case. But since as you say, different tuners have different sensitivities and resistance to overload & interference it becomes difficult to nail down. IIRC his downstairs TV is a 46", which isn't the easiest to lug around the house - especially if it's wall mounted.







While it would be easy enough to try one of his converter boxes that has been successful upstairs in front of his downstairs TV, this doesn't solve the problem, (as it would nix HD) and in the end what does it tell us? As mentioned above, every tuner is different...


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17586174
> 
> 
> Have you ever tried swapping the first floor TV with one or both of the second floor TVs or tuners? I'm thinking that there's either a difference in tuner sensitivity/selectivity/etc or there's some localized EMF noise near that first floor TV that such a swap might give you some clues about.



Thanks for the idea! Actually I had at first rejected the idea of bringing the TV from upstairs down to the first floor as I was thinking only in terms of the SHARP LCD (32") which I'd hate to do because of size and weight but then I thought why not bring down the analog TV with the PAL converter box as that is more manageable and the results will be very telling too.


So your suggestion is a good one and I will try that too and let you know.


----------



## LenL

I think I will try Rothes suggestion first. It will be easy to simply disconnect the coax from the first floor LCD TV and run it into the PAL converter box and then into the analog TV I will bring down from the second floor.


If that TV picks up 2.1 then that will be one key fact to work with. If that TV does not pick up 2.1 and now behaves like the first floor TV then we know it is a problem with the feed, overload or whatever and not the Sharp LCD TV tuner. I already know it is not the Sharp anyway as if I feed it into the tuner of the DTVPAL DVR and bring the HDMI feed into the Sharp TV I still don't get 2.1.


After I get these results I will work in the basement on adding some more split to the signal and terminating connections with the other converter boxes I will bring to the basement.


For some reason (ignorance) I assumed the box with the power chord that is in the basement is the actual amp and what is at the antenna outside is just some other dumb device. Anyway I have the CM7777 configured correctly. The part that goes with the antenna is with the antenna and the part that belongs inside is inside.


----------



## LenL

I brought the analog TV to the 1st fl with the Pal converter box and was able to receive 2.1 in the low 70s and locked on good with no loss. Better than upstairs. I checked the other channels too.


So I unhooked and brought the cable into the PALDVR to LCD TV via HDMI and the reading for 2.1 were about the same as were the other channels PAL converter box compared to PALDVR.


So it looks like the issue is the tuner in the SHARP LCD TV on the first fl. not picking up 2.1. I guess it is fussier.


So I am happy that the PALDVR can get the channels, expecially 2.1 and 4.1 and they are good....so far.


Not sure about doing anything with splitting the coax etc experiment at this point. I will keep that in my back pocket.


Thanks guys!


AKA....yes I was combining both antennas at one point and that was going well until I lost 2.1 all of a sudden so I ditched that idea.


Also I'll post you over on Yahoo about the home built. Some new developments to tell ya about.


----------



## rothe

Interesting findings, LenL. While I recognize AKAHooper's point that there are more variables at play here than what would allow for an easy determination of the cause of your reception problems, you have nonetheless given yourself some more information to work with.


It does seem that there's something about your Sharp's reception - or maybe the environment in which it's mounted. I've seen power transformers - in my case, the one in my home theater PC's battery backup system - cause some minor reception problems. That was an issue that I didn't pick up on until I bought a gauss meter. (I also found two ghosts and a possessed refrigerator in the house, but that's another story.) Anyway, is there any chance that the Sharp has an external power transformer that happened to be mounted/sitting right by the TV's tuner circuitry?


I know, I'm reachin' here....


----------



## SnellKrell

WNYE (25.1) OTA appears to be back at its previous transmission level.


----------



## lexus2108

Will Santa Bring NYC OTA customers. NEW SUB stations for Christmas? OR COAL with Snow


----------



## uncle2000mike




AloEuro said:


> I did not have enough time then to explain it all, the CC3 applies ONLY to TV-CC , never to conv.box, my 13Sharp has only 1CC, I 've got 20Sony cc4-text4.
> 
> Conv box uses Service1-6, if the program is in spanish use S2 for ingles, if the program is English use Service2 for Spanish.
> 
> The Pal or any conv.box on 47 or any spanish would be Service2, enjoy, Alo.
> 
> My converter box only has cc1-cc4 and text1-text4. I only see english on ch47 not ch 41 That is with the cc3 setting on the box. I have the SA8300hdc.
> 
> Is there a way to see the english on ch 41?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17572347
> 
> 
> WNYE (25.1) has returned OTA, albeit with a weak signal.



Those tubes are very expensive. Most high power stations have 2 in a push pull power amp.


If one goes out they will run at 40% power off the other good tube.


but if one tube shorts out it will stop all the power out of the amp. If that is the case they may just remove the shorted tube & run on the other good tube. It may be at 35% power because of the miss match with out the other tube.


Also the workiing tube may be weak.

But they may run on it until it fails.


they may run like that while funds are low because of the weak economy .


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uncle2000mike* /forum/post/17591777
> 
> 
> Is there a way to see the english on ch 41?



The only show that I've seen on 41 that has English CC is _Sabado Gigante_ which airs on Saturday nights.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17589449
> 
> 
> Interesting findings, LenL. While I recognize AKAHooper's point that there are more variables at play here than what would allow for an easy determination of the cause of your reception problems, you have nonetheless given yourself some more information to work with.
> 
> 
> It does seem that there's something about your Sharp's reception - or maybe the environment in which it's mounted. I've seen power transformers - in my case, the one in my home theater PC's battery backup system - cause some minor reception problems. That was an issue that I didn't pick up on until I bought a gauss meter. (I also found two ghosts and a possessed refrigerator in the house, but that's another story.) Anyway, is there any chance that the Sharp has an external power transformer that happened to be mounted/sitting right by the TV's tuner circuitry?
> 
> 
> I know, I'm reachin' here....



Actually I do have the PALDVR sitting right in front of the SHARP TV which might be a problem. I'll have to move it and see if that changes anything.


The more I was watching 2.1 fed from the PALDVR the more I was able to see that there was still an issue with my reception of 2.1. At least I can get it on the 1st fl but there is still a reception issue.


By the way have you noticed any changes in your reception in Monmouth Cty since Sept.?


----------



## lexus2108




uncle2000mike said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17559279
> 
> 
> I did not have enough time then to explain it all, the CC3 applies ONLY to TV-CC , never to conv.box, my 13Sharp has only 1CC, I 've got 20Sony cc4-text4.
> 
> Conv box uses Service1-6, if the program is in spanish use S2 for ingles, if the program is English use Service2 for Spanish.
> 
> The Pal or any conv.box on 47 or any spanish would be Service2, enjoy, Alo.
> 
> My converter box only has cc1-cc4 and text1-text4. I only see english on ch47 not ch 41 That is with the cc3 setting on the box. I have the SA8300hdc.
> 
> Is there a way to see the english on ch 41?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So for the DTVPAL (spanish to english) what do I set the CC for? Confused
Click to expand...


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17593102
> 
> 
> By the way have you noticed any changes in your reception in Monmouth Cty since Sept.?



Yes. With cooler weather and lower humidity, I've noticed fewer errors, dropouts and pixellation. Still no idea as to what my primary obstacles are to clean reception, but I intend to experiment with a spectrum analyzer this weekend. We'll see what that turns up.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akahooper* /forum/post/17584419
> 
> 
> OK, lets go thru the numbers for each TV for ch 2.1 (RF33) from the amp, but not including the cable from the amp to the 1st 2-way splitter as it's a constant.
> 
> You didn't say how much cable is between the 1st & 2nd splitters, so I estimated it at 10'
> 
> 
> Downstairs TV:
> 
> 1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 10' RG-6 cable = 0.53dB
> 
> Loss to tuner = 4.03dB
> 
> 
> Digital box TV upstairs:
> 
> 1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 10'(?) RG-6 to bsmt = 0.53dB
> 
> 2nd 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 30' RG-6 cable = 1.59dB
> 
> Loss to tuner = 9.1dB
> 
> 
> Sharp TV upstairs:
> 
> 1st 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 10'(?) RG-6 to bsmt = 0.53dB
> 
> 2nd 2-way splitter = 3.5dB
> 
> 75' RG-6 cable = 3.98dB
> 
> Loss to tuner = 11.51dB
> 
> 
> You're using a high gain amp in the 7777, intended to overcome a whole lot more than 4dB of loss.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a difference of over 5dB between the downstairs TV & the closer of the 2 upstairs that both work - the stronger of which is seeing only 31% of the power that the downstairs TV is.
> 
> 
> Here's what I would try first: Add a 3-way splitter in *addition* to the 2-way you already have to the downstairs TV. Hook the feed up to one of the 7dB legs (not the 3.5) so you're adding in *another* 7dB of loss to that TV - thus putting the signal strength close to the signal level the Sharp is seeing.
> 
> 
> Terminate the remaining ports to eliminate any possibility of creating multipath on the line from reflected signals on an open splitter. (If you don't have terminations just hook cables to your extra converter boxes.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you tried a different cable for the 10' run, and different legs of the splitter I doubt it's a cable/conn problem. (You did flip that 1st splitter didn't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )




I took the feed from the 2-way splitter and passed it to a 3-way splitter. Two of the outputs went to converter boxes to terminate them (not plugged into outlets) and the remaining output went to the 1st floor TV. No improvement to channel 2.1 and some signal loss on other channels. I even added another 2-way splitter between the 3-way and the 1st fl TV and no improvement.


----------



## AloEuro

Uncle2000Mike- The Latin Grammy Awards on ch.41 were with English subtitles, unless

the broadcaster provides the CC3 there is no cc3,must go.

The conv. boxes uses ONLY Service 1-6, the Service is matter for language, the broadcasters

send the CC and some boxes in Automatic mode automatically make change it in CCRemote so the

CC3 in one channel becomes SC2 on ch.47 (ServiceCaption2english).

Conv. boxes which have 4CC+4Text those are merely dispensation outlets coming out from conv.

box Service1-6 as you choose, Conv. box uses only Service, it is for lingual use, for example S1Engl.

S2Espanol- S3Polish - S4Korean -S5 Russian - S6 Swahili distributed 8times on TV


----------



## AloEuro

" So for the DTVPAL (spanish to english) what do I set the CC for? Confused "

Conv.box uses only Service, I don't know PAL, but do it this way -Menu -go to CC-

Customize if you want, get Service2, go Automatic or Standard or Custom. Exit.

On Remote go to CC3 or SC2 and go to ch.47, enjoy, Alo. Let me know.

The spanish broadcat language is in CC1- English subtitles CC3 sent out by broadcasters go to conv.box to Service2 in English


----------



## DevOne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lexus2108* /forum/post/17590542
> 
> 
> Will Santa Bring NYC OTA customers. NEW SUB stations for Christmas? OR COAL with Snow



Funny, I consider additional multicasts (save RetroTV or TheTube [defunct]) to be that lump of coal.


Now if Santa brought higher bandwith allocations to the primary HD station; that would make a truly Merry Christmas.


----------



## kickass69

DevOne: Pretty much CBS's decision to not add any subchannels and it shows beautifully. They look the best out of any OTA station.


----------



## rothe

I've had a few private messages with Trip regarding the Spectrum Analyzers that we each just purchased, and thought I might share some findings with the rest of the group. I just used this thing for the first time this weekend, and it was very revealing about my own particular installation. Whereas my home theater PC's tuners and software would, at best, tell me that I have a strong signal level (or none at all) coming out of my preamp, I had very little information available about the quality of that signal. The spectrum analyzer changes all of that. See the pictures and comments at:

http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/attic/index.html


----------



## Trip in VA

Nice pics, Jim. However, if you had a null modem serial cable, you could use the SMART software to get the readouts on your computer instead of trying to take pictures of the analyzer. Unless the antenna was too far from the computer, in which case, this is fine.










Any chance you could get a picture of channel 55? I'm curious to see what that looks like. And are you sure that the noise above channel 22 was actually noise and not signal from WNJS-22 as noted on your TV Fool plot?


The WMBC-18 and WNYW-44 pics are textbook multipath. Actually, they look pretty good compared to my indoor antenna setup here, where I see usually one huge gouge in the middle of the signal rather than a gentle ripple like you have.


I would also be curious to see what 31 looks like, as that's one you skipped over. What you have listed as WPXN-30 is actually WFUT-30.


Are you enjoying the analyzer?










- Trip


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17629483
> 
> 
> IF you had a null modem serial cable



*IF.* 'Nuff said. Besides, that big button on the top of my point-n-shoot camera is much easier to work with than baud rates and parity bits and stuff.



> Quote:
> Any chance you could get a picture of channel 55? I'm curious to see what that looks like.



When (if?) I get home tonight, I'll take a look at it. FWIW, it's not in my usual channel line-up, which probably means that I didn't get enough of a signal to justify trying to tune it in.



> Quote:
> And are you sure that the noise above channel 22 was actually noise and not signal from WNJS-22 as noted on your TV Fool plot?



Maybe. But my antenna is aimed at about 15 degrees E of magnetic north, which would make for a might weak signal from any station to my west. FWIW, that station would be in a dead zone for my antenna, and looking through roofing shingles, too.



> Quote:
> The WMBC-18 and WNYW-44 pics are textbook multipath. Actually, they look pretty good compared to my indoor antenna setup here, where I see usually one huge gouge in the middle of the signal rather than a gentle ripple like you have.



Where is this textbook that would tell me what such spectrum charts look like?



> Quote:
> I would also be curious to see what 31 looks like, as that's one you skipped over. What you have listed as WPXN-30 is actually WFUT-30.



I'll fix it later, IF I get home tonight. And I'll take some shots of 31, too.



> Quote:
> Are you enjoying the analyzer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



It's great to actually be able to SEE what my tuners are seeing. There's probably so much more that this thing could tell me. Experience comes slowly, but that's part of why I posted these pics - to gain others' experiences.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17629656
> 
> 
> *IF.* 'Nuff said. Besides, that big button on the top of my point-n-shoot camera is much easier to work with than baud rates and parity bits and stuff.



I found the default settings to be sufficient for making it work. I suspect not having the cable to be the biggest problem; I know it took me a while to find one.











> Quote:
> When (if?) I get home tonight, I'll take a look at it. FWIW, it's not in my usual channel line-up, which probably means that I didn't get enough of a signal to justify trying to tune it in.



It shouldn't be in your lineup. Channel 55 is Qualcomm's MediaFLO service. It won't decode on any receivers besides their own. I'm just curious if you're able to see anything from it and if so what it looks like. (I have no service from them in my areas.)



> Quote:
> Maybe. But my antenna is aimed at about 15 degrees E of magnetic north, which would make for a might weak signal from any station to my west. FWIW, that station would be in a dead zone for my antenna, and looking through roofing shingles, too.



Then it sounds less likely. I was just thinking out loud.











> Quote:
> Where is this textbook that would tell me what such spectrum charts look like?



I don't know that there is such a textbook, I just know that's what I've been told traditional multipath looks like. It's the kind of picture one would expect to see in a textbook, I guess, is how I should have phrased it.











> Quote:
> I'll fix it later, IF I get home tonight. And I'll take some shots of 31, too.



Alright. You missed WXTV-40 as well, but I don't know how much it matters. I know I don't watch the Spanish-language channels when I'm in the area, and it's not yet in HD anyway!



> Quote:
> It's great to actually be able to SEE what my tuners are seeing. There's probably so much more that this thing could tell me. Experience comes slowly, but that's part of why I posted these pics - to gain others' experiences.



Absolutely. I love my analyzer for the same reason; even on the indoor antenna it lets me clean it up enough to where it'll decode cleanly even if the plots look just awful.


If there's any questions I can answer for you either about the output you're seeing on the analyzer or as far as how to use it, let me know. I'll be glad to offer any advice I can give.


- Trip


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Trip and James,


Try this: http://www.sencore.com/uploads/files...veGoodHDTV.pdf Please note that the document, which is several years old, is EXTREMELY conservative in its described signal range as the newest crop of tuners in CECBs has about an 80 dB dynamic signal range.


FWIW, a simple USB to serial adapter plus a F-F null modem adapter are all you really need to connect to the Sencore via SMART.


Multi-path is made visible on the SPEC screen as the ragged top of the waveform and numerically as the peak-valley number on the MEAS screen. This is very evident in your channel 44 photos. Attached below is an example of a nasty RF24 and a pretty clean RF26 side-by-side. Photos were taken earlier this year before I got into SMART.


I suspect that some of those "shoulder" noise levels are due to IMD in your pre-amp, ie channel 33.


----------



## rothe

Hey Trip,


Here are the measurements and spectrum graphs that you wanted of channels 31 and 55. Interestingly, both signals seem to be pretty strong and clean. Channel 31 is not nearly as strong for me as the adjacent channels, and interestingly, channel 55 is not flat across it's range, which makes sense considering your description of the signal. I'm actually surprised that the FCC lets them broadcast a scrambled signal in the OTA DTV band.


Anyway, one of these days, I'll re-scan all of the channels that the spectrum analyzer can receive, as opposed to just the ones that I've put into my tuner's channel line-up. I'll post an update here when I get around to that.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17630604
> 
> 
> Trip and James,
> 
> 
> Try this: http://www.sencore.com/uploads/files...veGoodHDTV.pdf Please note that the document, which is several years old, is EXTREMELY conservative in its described signal range as the newest crop of tuners in CECBs has about an 80 dB dynamic signal range.



That was helpful. Thanks.



> Quote:
> FWIW, a simple USB to serial adapter plus a F-F null modem adapter are all you really need to connect to the Sencore via SMART.



I probably have one in a box around here somewhere. You're going to make me dig into those boxes, aren't you?



> Quote:
> Multi-path is made visible on the SPEC screen as the ragged top of the waveform and numerically as the peak-valley number on the MEAS screen. This is very evident in your channel 44 photos. Attached below is an example of a nasty RF24 and a pretty clean RF26 side-by-side.



I've been thinking about those spectrum graphs, and it now makes sense to me that multipath interference would create a frequency response graph like this. Every time you add a reflected signal (light/sound/RF) to a source signal, you're going to create standing waves at certain frequencies related to the difference in distance traveled by each signal's path. Those frequencies are made clearly visible by the spectrum graph. Cool. (I can see! I can see!)











> Quote:
> Photos were taken earlier this year before I got into SMART.



Clearly, I have not gotten into SMART yet, and my SA1454 and its CD is at home. What will SMART do for me that photographs won't?



> Quote:
> I suspect that some of those "shoulder" noise levels are due to IMD in your pre-amp, ie channel 33.



This is the one comment of yours that just isn't coming clear for me. What is it about IMD that would create such a graph?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17633471
> 
> 
> Hey Trip,
> 
> 
> Here are the measurements and spectrum graphs that you wanted of channels 31 and 55. Interestingly, both signals seem to be pretty strong and clean. Channel 31 is not nearly as strong for me as the adjacent channels, and interestingly, channel 55 is not flat across it's range, which makes sense considering your description of the signal. I'm actually surprised that the FCC lets them broadcast a scrambled signal in the OTA DTV band.



Remember that the OTA DTV band now stops at channel 51. Channels 52-69 were auctioned off. Qualcomm's MediaFLO is one of the services using that spectrum, and it uses channel 55 nationwide. I have a page for it up on RabbitEars.


I asked about it since Qualcomm actually has a 22 kW transmitter in Monmouth Beach and a 50 kW one in Tinton Falls. I wanted to see if it looked like it had severe multipath in it or not, which it surprisingly doesn't seem to.

http://www.rabbitears.info/mediaflo....t=map&state=NJ 



> Quote:
> Anyway, one of these days, I'll re-scan all of the channels that the spectrum analyzer can receive, as opposed to just the ones that I've put into my tuner's channel line-up. I'll post an update here when I get around to that.



Awesome. I can't wait!










- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

to follow up can you scan the signal of channel 51 or 18 from montrclair nj, on your spectrum. i cant get a signal from either one, I have my antenna pointed towards the transmitter towers, my tv fool says it should come in very strong, I'm 18 miles away, i do multipath from buildings in my path but that shouldn't wash out my signally totally, I get esb signals at or near max,


----------



## SnellKrell

Have I missed something?


How can scans of stations from a location 37 miles due south of the ESB in Monmouth County, NJ be of any use to someone living in Western Queens - East of the ESB????


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17636138
> 
> 
> to follow up can you scan the signal of channel 51 or 18 from montrclair nj, on your spectrum. i cant get a signal from either one, I have my antenna pointed towards the transmitter towers, my tv fool says it should come in very strong, I'm 18 miles away, i do multipath from buildings in my path but that shouldn't wash out my signally totally, I get esb signals at or near max,



Ummm... well, two things:


1. First of all, I already did. Both 18 and 51 are already on that web page that I set up. See http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/attic/index.html .


2. HOWEVER, as SnellKrell has already pointed out, my reception conditions are going to have very little bearing on your reception conditions. We're in different environments, with different terrain and nearby buildings, with different antennas, amplifiers, cables, splitters, etc. The only thing that my spectrum analysis is really going to tell me is what's going on with MY signal - not yours. Even my next-door neighbors would only see minimal relevance from my scans.


What you need is to do a similar spectrum analysis at your location, with your setup. You can buy one of these things on E-bay, like Trip and I did, or you can hire someone who has one and knows how to use it, or - maybe someday - you might be able to rent one from somebody who has one. (I'm thinking about this, but am far from committed to the concept. If someone beats me to it, I won't be terribly upset.)


Anyway, abandon any hope of gleaning any information that's relevant to you from the analyses that I'm doing. As much as you can hope for is to replicate the process of measurement and adjustment that I'm going through, and I haven't finished that process to a successful conclusion yet, so I can't even tell you that this process (and equipment) is cost effective.


Sorry to burst your bubble about this stuff, but you're going to have to get your own data.


----------



## nycdigital09

what i was trying to deduce from your analysis was that possiblility the signal from nj is not reaching western queens as well as other parts the nyc skyline would could cost extreme amount of multipath of the signal to this area, thxs for you insight


----------



## LenL

Rothe and Trip,


Thanks for sharing all of your data and info in this area. I am finding it very interesting.


I'm here thinking ...ok I go out and get me one of these expensive gagets and get these readings as my buddy Rothe has done down in Monmouth County and then what?


It is going to tell me exactly what I am seeing when I watch TV? That some channels suck and others are great. I suppose I could if I was not afraid of heights go climb the roof and adjust the antenna and take more readings. But then I would see and get the same results by simply viewing the reception.


So guys....why would anyone but an antenna installer want to spend money on a spectrum analyzer? I guess I'm just too practical to spend the money unless they are cheap, cheap, cheap.


----------



## LenL

Folks,


Any thoughts on what this might mean for NBC 4.1 OTA? Can Comcast pull the plug or reduce OTA support in the NY Area? I don't see how they would want to continue OTA. It would be better for them financially to pull the plug to encourage people to get their cable service.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17640007
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on what this might mean for NBC 4.1 OTA? Can Comcast pull the plug or reduce OTA support in the NY Area? I don't see how they would want to continue OTA. It would be better for them financially to pull the plug to encourage people to get their cable service.



It has nothing to do with a new owner and what he "wants."


It has everything to do with Congress and the FCC!


There are laws and regulations and until they are amended or changed,

everything will remain the same.


Here's something to gnaw on. There has been speculation that Comcast would sell-off the NBC owned station and the TV network. The philosophy

being - less regulation and speed bumps concerning the deal, yesterday's media and money losers!


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17639976
> 
> 
> It is going to tell me exactly what I am seeing when I watch TV? That some channels suck and others are great.



It will probably tell you WHY some channels suck and others are great - weak signal, noise, FM interference, multipath, etc - and you will be able to see these things on the display. Can you make that determination by just looking at the TV screen?


Once you have more information, it might help you to determine if there's something that you can do to improve the situation, or if it's all just a lost cause. As I said yesterday, I haven't finished yet, but I do have more information to go on. As they say, "stay tuned...."



> Quote:
> So guys....why would anyone but an antenna installer want to spend money on a spectrum analyzer? I guess I'm just too practical to spend the money unless they are cheap, cheap, cheap.



Here's another way to think about it: you spend $400 on a used spectrum analyzer that helps you to maybe/finally optimize your OTA reception system, thereby allowing you to continue saving $20 to $70 per month by not having a cable or satellite TV service bill. When you're done with the spectrum analyzer, you put it on back E-bay and get $300 to $400 for it, in which case you're out a whopping $100 max, and you got your problem solved.


Or you keep your new toy because it's cool and it's fun to play around with.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17643619
> 
> 
> Or you keep your new toy because it's cool and it's fun to play around with.













In my case, I bought it solely for this reason. I mean, it's useful too, but I spend MUCH more of my time having fun with my analyzer than anything else.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17640077
> 
> 
> Here's something to gnaw on. There has been speculation that Comcast would sell-off the NBC owned station and the TV network. The philosophy
> 
> being - less regulation and speed bumps concerning the deal, yesterday's media and money losers!



The question then becomes who would step up to buy it.


----------



## SnellKrell

Verizon!


----------



## StudioTech

Oh, man! Imagine the retransmission consent talks with Cablevision. The fireworks!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17643619
> 
> 
> It will probably tell you WHY some channels suck and others are great - weak signal, noise, FM interference, multipath, etc - and you will be able to see these things on the display. Can you make that determination by just looking at the TV screen?
> 
> 
> Once you have more information, it might help you to determine if there's something that you can do to improve the situation, or if it's all just a lost cause. As I said yesterday, I haven't finished yet, but I do have more information to go on. As they say, "stay tuned...."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another way to think about it: you spend $400 on a used spectrum analyzer that helps you to maybe/finally optimize your OTA reception system, thereby allowing you to continue saving $20 to $70 per month by not having a cable or satellite TV service bill. When you're done with the spectrum analyzer, you put it on back E-bay and get $300 to $400 for it, in which case you're out a whopping $100 max, and you got your problem solved.
> 
> 
> Or you keep your new toy because it's cool and it's fun to play around with.



I kinda suspected that you looked at this as a 'toy' and that's OK. I suppose I am a bit jealous as I could have fun with it too but like I said...I'm cheap, cheap and more cheap.


So I will stick with just using my eyes looking at the TV and the signal strength being shown by my TV or PAL DVR as a guide to what's going on.


I know my antenna is pointed at close to 119 degrees which is the compass direction the ESB is from my house. I can't do much more than that. Trees are out of the way and I don't think I can dig and remove the top of the hill I am facing. Sometimes you just have to accept the situation and toys are not going to help.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17647315
> 
> 
> I kinda suspected that you looked at this as a 'toy' and that's OK. I suppose I am a bit jealous as I could have fun with it too but like I said...I'm cheap, cheap and more cheap.



I'm cheap, cheap, and more cheap too, but I really really wanted one.







And the $580 (that includes shipping) I paid was a steal over the list price which I believe is north of $3000.


- Trip


----------



## rothe

One of the earlier comments on the spectrum analysis charts that I posted came from ProjectSHO89:



> Quote:
> I suspect that some of those "shoulder" noise levels are due to IMD in your pre-amp, ie channel 33.



I was kind of hoping he would chime in on my request to elaborate on that comment, but he hasn't. Now, I'm wondering about a nearby FM radio station - it's transmitting about 100 watts, but it's just a few blocks away - that has previously wreaked havoc upon my reception of an adjacent FM channel. (The offender is WYGG; the desirable adjacent station is WBGO. If you want to look at FM Fool ( www.fmfool.com ), I'm in the eastern section of the 07756 area code.


The Channel Master 7777 preamp that I'm using has an FM trap, which is enabled, but I could only guess that I had it tuned right - all that I had to go on was the signal strength digital bar graph on an audiophile grade separate FM tuner, and that graph wasn't granular enough for me to really be sure that I had the best settings on the FM trap. Now that I have the spectrum analyzer, which covers the FM band as well, I'm going to revisit that adjustment this weekend.


But here's a question to ponder in the meantime: could an FM broadcast overload a preamp in such a manner as to cause this intermodulation distortion which ProjectSHO89 spoke of?


----------



## AloEuro

In case nobody said it yet, the nonHD OTA crowd may want to know that there is 1 movie channel showcasing every day in prime time - the ION31-3.

Though it is the oldies like Magnum force, the Rookie, Heat,Nat. Lampoon etc. but it is good to know that at long last some of the multiplex stations use it for something useful, wonder when, when wabc7-2 will follow.

Also the KoreanMBC 17-2 shows lots of good shows all with English

subt. alo


----------



## AloEuro

How come when rain comes the signals coming to TV via conv.box are apparently more steady and stronger? It seems to me that rain adds energy to it or limits bouncing, keeping multipath more narrow as it should be.

On the other hand similar things could be said for good sunny days, right?


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17640007
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on what this might mean for NBC 4.1 OTA? Can Comcast pull the plug or reduce OTA support in the NY Area? I don't see how they would want to continue OTA. It would be better for them financially to pull the plug to encourage people to get their cable service.



Ever heard about the revenge factor? You can get in local library 10 DVD per week without fee + 10 DVD/VHS on hold (to order from catalogue,delivered from other libraries to your pick up) -that is my revenge.

Now, if I only had the time to watch it


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17663253
> 
> 
> Ever heard about the revenge factor? You can get in local library 10 DVD per week without fee + 10 DVD/VHS on hold (to order from catalogue,delivered from other libraries to your pick up) -that is my revenge.
> 
> Now, if I only had the time to watch it



I take out DVDs of movies and Tv series from the library all the time once the reuns come on.


----------



## StudioTech

WXTV (Univision) and WFUT/WFTY (Telefutura) go HD on Monday at 12:01am according to:

http://www.univision.com/content/con...ml?cid=2194649 


Also according to the article, there won't be any HD programming until the Tournament of Roses Parade on New Years Day. The article also doesn't say which HD resolution they'll be using.


----------



## Trip in VA

I remember hearing 1080i but I can't find a source for that. I guess we'll find out in about 29 hours.


- Trip


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17663532
> 
> 
> I take out DVDs of movies and Tv series from the library all the time once the reuns come on.



Wish I was so lucky, my local free public library charges $1.50 each for DVDs.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17648316
> 
> 
> One of the earlier comments on the spectrum analysis charts that I posted came from ProjectSHO89:
> 
> 
> I was kind of hoping he would chime in on my request to elaborate on that comment, but he hasn't. Now, I'm wondering about a nearby FM radio station - it's transmitting about 100 watts, but it's just a few blocks away - that has previously wreaked havoc upon my reception of an adjacent FM channel. (The offender is WYGG; the desirable adjacent station is WBGO. If you want to look at FM Fool ( www.fmfool.com ), I'm in the eastern section of the 07756 area code.
> 
> 
> The Channel Master 7777 preamp that I'm using has an FM trap, which is enabled, but I could only guess that I had it tuned right - all that I had to go on was the signal strength digital bar graph on an audiophile grade separate FM tuner, and that graph wasn't granular enough for me to really be sure that I had the best settings on the FM trap. Now that I have the spectrum analyzer, which covers the FM band as well, I'm going to revisit that adjustment this weekend.
> 
> 
> But here's a question to ponder in the meantime: could an FM broadcast overload a preamp in such a manner as to cause this intermodulation distortion which ProjectSHO89 spoke of?



I've been meaning to respond to this as best I can, but I don't feel like I know enough about it to come up with a reliable answer. I wanted to give a lengthier answer, which is most of what's taken so long, but I never really came up with anything.


The problem with a lot of these FM traps is that they try to protect channel 6, which means a signal on 88.5 might not be getting attenuated as much as it could be. I could see that causing a problem, but if it was, I would think that you'd see more issues with WABC since it would fall on the second harmonic of the 88.5 signal.


I don't know what impact it would have on intermod.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/17666943
> 
> 
> Wish I was so lucky, my local free public library charges $1.50 each for DVDs.




In Randolph my library charges $0 for New realeases but you only have 1 day and after that there is a charge of $1 a day. For everything else you have 14 days.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17664178
> 
> 
> I remember hearing 1080i but I can't find a source for that. I guess we'll find out in about 29 hours.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Confirmed. I watched the switch as it happened a few seconds after midnight.


----------



## dm145

It's great I get all the Spanish channels OTA, but can no longer get WABC and WPIX since the move to VHF!


----------



## Trip in VA

Which feeds are now in 1080i/5.1? I know 41-1 and 68-1 are supposed to, how about 67-1? I hope the subchannels remained in 480i.


Thanks. =)


- Trip


----------



## TravKoolBreeze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17672730
> 
> 
> Which feeds are now in 1080i/5.1? I know 41-1 and 68-1 are supposed to, how about 67-1? I hope the subchannels remained in 480i.
> 
> 
> Thanks. =)
> 
> 
> - Trip



Before I left, I checked and it seemed the subchannels for 41 and 68 were still in 480i.


----------



## martianpete

Hey, sorry if this is a topic that has been discussed already but…is anyone else experiencing poor quality reception this week? Anyone know what's happening that's causing it? CBS, NBC and a couple of others are dropping out a lot the last week, kinda stinks. Just curious.


Thanks,

Pete


----------



## SnellKrell

No problems here - Upper East Side, Manhattan.


In fact, NBC has better SNR % readings than usual!


----------



## rothe

I just updated that web page that I put together of screen shots from my spectrum analyzer. I added a bunch of stations that I didn't measure previously, and I also took a look at some FM radio issues that I think might be affecting my TV reception. The last four images on the second page go into that story. See:

http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/attic/index.html


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/17678069
> 
> 
> I just updated that web page that I put together of screen shots from my spectrum analyzer. I added a bunch of stations that I didn't measure previously, and I also took a look at some FM radio issues that I think might be affecting my TV reception. The last four images on the second page go into that story. See:
> 
> http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/attic/index.html



Would you mind sharing some more details about the attic installation?


Notably, how were you able to fit the 168 inch boom of the Winegard HD7698P into what is typically small attic space? Do you have much in the way of heat/air ducts up there that could compromise reception? And what technique did you use to aim it toward ESB?


Also since I'm not familiar with the topography of the Ocean Grove area, what factors influence the 1-Edge path for W-ennnnn-BC and WWOR (it'll always be WOR-TV to me) since they are sited with the others on ESB?


Thanks for posting the information and making the screen captures available for all of us.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *martianpete* /forum/post/17676153
> 
> 
> Hey, sorry if this is a topic that has been discussed already butis anyone else experiencing poor quality reception this week? Anyone know what's happening that's causing it? CBS, NBC and a couple of others are dropping out a lot the last week, kinda stinks. Just curious.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pete



While I'm not anywhere near you CBS and NBC have become my problem stations too. CBS used to be one of my best too. I don't have any explanation for either of us. I am using 2 antennas both of which are UHF and out doors and I seem to get 7.1 VHF better on both of them than 2.1 or 4.1.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *re_nelson* /forum/post/17678318
> 
> 
> Would you mind sharing some more details about the attic installation?
> 
> 
> Notably, how were you able to fit the 168 inch boom of the Winegard HD7698P into what is typically small attic space?



That antenna boom comes shipped in two (three?) pieces, so it was easy enough to get up there. This particular attic runs north/south, and is about 20 ft wide at the bottom, and maybe about 5 ft high at the crest of the roof. The antenna "looks" through the gable towards Empire. The house had been re-roofed twice before I bought it, so there are three layers of shingles "shielding" (or adding to the multipath) on either side of the antenna.



> Quote:
> Do you have much in the way of heat/air ducts up there that could compromise reception?



No heating/cooling ducts. HW Baseboard/radiator heat and window A/Cs as needed.


Aside from the aforementioned roofing shingles, there are some 120v lines under the attic floor. I haven't had the house long enough to know where they all are, but the antenna is about 30 inches off that floor so hum from the residential power lines doesn't seem to be an issue. I actually moved in after the digital transition, so I can't tell you how much of an issue that was with analog reception.


In front of the house, by the street, there are residential power, phone and cable TV lines about 25 ft in front and right in the line of sight for the antenna's view of Empire.



> Quote:
> And what technique did you use to aim it toward ESB?



Ten dollars at any camping store will get you a cheap compass. Trial and error helped me find a sweet spot in a northern orientation where I could receive both WNJN and WLIW.



> Quote:
> Also since I'm not familiar with the topography of the Ocean Grove area, what factors influence the 1-Edge path for W-ennnnn-BC and WWOR (it'll always be WOR-TV to me) since they are sited with the others on ESB?



Ocean Grove is a coastal community, and I'm exactly a half-mile from the beach. My house sits about 20 or 25 ft above sea level, and the attic is about another 20 or 25 ft above ground level. It's dead-flat down here, but "The Highlands" (Atlantic Highlands) has some hilly terrain about 10 or 12 miles to the north. As for WNBC and WWOR, I'm going to guess that they're both sitting pretty low on the tower. There are a few taller (20 or 30 story) apartment buildings in Asbury Park just to my north that are having some unknown contribution to multipath.



> Quote:
> Thanks for posting the information and making the screen captures available for all of us.



As has been said before, this won't have much relevance to others outside of this immediate area, but it's the most precise data that I've seen anyone provide, and may factor into some signal strength and signal quality comparisons.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17664164
> 
> 
> WXTV (Univision) and WFUT/WFTY (Telefutura) go HD on Monday at 12:01am . . . Also according to the article, there won't be any HD programming until the Tournament of Roses Parade on New Years Day. . . .



Not entirely accurate ... Tuesday night, an evening soap opera called "Vecinos" ("Neighbors") was presented in 16:9 1080i on Telefutura Channel 68.1.


----------



## martianpete




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17678887
> 
> 
> While I'm not anywhere near you CBS and NBC have become my problem stations too. CBS used to be one of my best too. I don't have any explanation for either of us. I am using 2 antennas both of which are UHF and out doors and I seem to get 7.1 VHF better on both of them than 2.1 or 4.1.



Hi Len, thanks for the info. I guess they must be doing something at the ESB. Hopefully it will be over very soon. CBS has been one of the best channels that I receive too, except when it goes down to about half strength and I loose most of it at 1 AM (a Lot).


You mentioned that you are using 2 antenna's. Do you do that with an ordinary splitter or do you need something else in order to do that? I've been wanting to try this so I can start getting 21.1, 21.2 and 21.3 WLIW again.


Thanks,

Pete


----------



## dagger666

Will digital TV ever get over it's growing pains







. In my kitchen just bought a Sylvania 19" HDTV which can't get 7,11 or 13 hooked to a Monoprice antenna. Tried a Phillips not amplified antenna from Target but same thing so returned it. On the other hand my Winguard SS3000 is doing fine in my bedroom with one exception. If i turn it to the Northwest i can get everything but 11, but if i turn it southwest i get everything but 7,







go figure. If i point it straight i can't get 7 or 11







very strange. I could have the east and west confused but north and south are right







. I'm only 13 miles from NY near Belmont Race track and still have trouble so when will ABC bust it's power along with 11 which is the lowest power station i can get coming in at 16.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17678887
> 
> 
> While I'm not anywhere near you CBS and NBC have become my problem stations too. CBS used to be one of my best too. I don't have any explanation for either of us. I am using 2 antennas both of which are UHF and out doors and I seem to get 7.1 VHF better on both of them than 2.1 or 4.1.



I'm sure the weather has played a part in the poor reception this past week of the Nov 30 - Dec 4.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *martianpete* /forum/post/17679473
> 
> 
> Hi Len, thanks for the info. I guess they must be doing something at the ESB. Hopefully it will be over very soon. CBS has been one of the best channels that I receive too, except when it goes down to about half strength and I loose most of it at 1 AM (a Lot).
> 
> 
> You mentioned that you are using 2 antenna's. Do you do that with an ordinary splitter or do you need something else in order to do that? I've been wanting to try this so I can start getting 21.1, 21.2 and 21.3 WLIW again.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pete



I have a CM4228 and CM7777 preamp mounted outside on my chimney. Then I found a small UHF bowtie lying around and also mounted that with a CM7777 preamp lower down on the chimney. Each antenna feeds separately. One into my PalDVR with HDMI to TV and the Other as a coax feed into TV. I also send the CM4228 to 2 upstairs TVs.


I was combining them at one point with a splitter in reverse but 2.1 and 4.1 have become so bad that I had to stop that. It seems I get 2.1 and 4.1 better with the UHF bowtie and all the other channels better with the CM4228. Go figure.


I also just completed a home built (calling it LENHD) with the help of AKAhooper and just did a small test and it looks to be as good or better than the CM4228 and UHF bowtie without the preamp.


----------



## jpru34

time is 8 am. Anyone confirm?


----------



## SnellKrell

I rarely can get this station since the transition.


My TV, per usual, is receiving a low grade signal, one that's not strong enough for actual reception.


----------



## AloEuro

" time is 8 am. Anyone confirm? "

Yes, the ION31-1 had some issues, but what I found funny was that the other subch. were running regualar programming, the 31-3 movie channel was doing its re-

peats of Harry Crumb (Candy comedy) then Heat(Al+ deNirro),alo.


----------



## AloEuro

"I also just completed a home built (calling it LENHD) with the help of AKAhooper "

Please, please don't tell me your LENHD is patent pending, is it?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/17699332
> 
> 
> time is 8 am. Anyone confirm?



Saturday 12/12/09 8AM. I get 31.1 good, but not the subs. So I don't know what is going on. Kids miss QUBO.


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/17705703
> 
> 
> Saturday 12/12/09 8AM. I get 31.1 good, but not the subs. So I don't know what is going on. Kids miss QUBO.



Same here. Also weak signal on UHF 36 (47.1) below reception threshold.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/17705882
> 
> 
> Same here. Also weak signal on UHF 36 (47.1).



36 is having a problem.


On one tuner (DirecTV OTA) - nothing!


TV tuner - very low SNR%, too low to provide reception!!!!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17680281
> 
> 
> I have a CM4228 and CM7777 preamp mounted outside on my chimney. Then I found a small UHF bowtie lying around and also mounted that with a CM7777 preamp lower down on the chimney. Each antenna feeds separately. One into my PalDVR with HDMI to TV and the Other as a coax feed into TV. I also send the CM4228 to 2 upstairs TVs.
> 
> 
> I was combining them at one point with a splitter in reverse but 2.1 and 4.1 have become so bad that I had to stop that. It seems I get 2.1 and 4.1 better with the UHF bowtie and all the other channels better with the CM4228. Go figure.



Not surprised. I get pretty good reception with my bowtie 25 miles out from NYC, pictured here.


----------



## AloEuro

Same here, AM only 31-1 with pixelation the 3subs good signal NoVideo/Audio, at noon

everything back to normal for all 4 of 31-IOn. good signal PQ no pixelation.

But 47/36 was gone,yesterday too


----------



## dvdchance

Wondering if anyone uses TVGOS for any devices? I have a DVR Pal and it seems WABC since yesterday hasn't been showing up with TVGOS data. I know users of the PAL in other cities are also having issues with ABC data.


Is anyone that uses TVGOS for a device other then the DVR Pal getting WABC data?


----------



## AloEuro

To those who know - My pc Monitor has shrunk, about 2 inch wide strip of color display from top to bottom shows, the rest on each side black. 1997 model, the controls at bottom work only within the lightened 2inch wide strip. From your experience - is it

garbage? Is there a way to restore It ? Somehow to demagnetize? What you think?


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/17678887
> 
> 
> While I'm not anywhere near you CBS and NBC have become my problem stations too. CBS used to be one of my best too. I don't have any explanation for either of us. I am using 2 antennas both of which are UHF and out doors and I seem to get 7.1 VHF better on both of them than 2.1 or 4.1.



CBS is coming in fine, but NBC has been dead for a while now. I even tried reorienting my antenna, but nothing. Anyone have good info on if NBC is doing anything with its signal?


----------



## nycdigital09

I remember seeing announcement on ion 31.1 few days back, that their signal is gonna improve significantly probably meaning that their doing work on headend, its probably going HD


----------



## SnellKrell

31.1 went HD a while ago!


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17707110
> 
> 
> Same here, AM only 31-1 with pixelation the 3subs good signal NoVideo/Audio, at noon
> 
> everything back to normal for all 4 of 31-IOn. good signal PQ no pixelation.
> 
> But 47/36 was gone,yesterday too



Same story again this morning with Ion. It was perfect last night but pretty weak again this morning. (All my other stations are coming in full strength per usual so its nothing to do with me or my antenna.)


----------



## johnosolis

For the last couple of days, Telemundo (47.1) has been coming in at about 80% signal, but it is a black screen with no sound. Now, the same is happening with 34.1, which has a signal strength of 100%, but no audio or video. This also happens often to 17-3 (which usually broadcasts a color bar test pattern).


Does anyone know what could cause lack of video and audio while the signal strength is very good? Is this a transmission problem?


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17710169
> 
> 
> I remember seeing announcement on ion 31.1 few days back, that their signal is gonna improve significantly probably meaning that their doing work on headend, its probably going HD



Did Ion offer specifics as to timing? Also, what is a "headend"? I apologize in advance for my ignorance (I was unable to find an answer using google.)


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17701747
> 
> 
> "I also just completed a home built (calling it LENHD) with the help of AKAhooper "
> 
> Please, please don't tell me your LENHD is patent pending, is it?



No I just had to give it a name like some others do who build their own (MClapp). Sort of unique branding for a unique design but it is not going to be sold...unless when I get done testing it I find I have something special. Right now it sits in my garage until the weather greatly improves and I can mount it on my chimney for some testing. I had it outside briefly sitting on the grouind and the results were very good. It is no an indoor antenna although it could be put in an attic.


----------



## pantrychef

That was some bad atmospherics today.


At one time or another, I lost 27(54.1), 36(47.1), and 48(48.1) from my location. But they have all returned as of 7PM this evening.


Does anyone know when 34(34.1) will begin service on 4 in VHF-Lo? How about the power boost on WLIW-21?


----------



## AloEuro

LenL - since you consider the attic as reception area, I am sure you have additional space there, have you considered to put there sort of zone made of mirrors (or glass or plexi with the other side darkened, even aluminium) to reflect into the antena and to create additional electro magnetic fields of congested signals centered at/ directed into the Ant.?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17718588
> 
> 
> LenL - since you consider the attic as reception area, I am sure you have additional space there, have you considered to put there sort of zone made of mirrors (or glass or plexi with the other side darkened, even aluminium) to reflect into the antena and to create additional electro magnetic fields of congested signals centered at/ directed into the Ant.?



I suppose the attic works for many people but for me given the terrain, and distance from ESB I would only mount it there as a last resort. My homebuilt antenna can be put in an attic but I will mount it outside.


----------



## dturturro

I just got NBC back today. High 80s! Go figure.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/17711761
> 
> 
> For the last couple of days, Telemundo (47.1) has been coming in at about 80% signal, but it is a black screen with no sound. Now, the same is happening with 34.1, which has a signal strength of 100%, but no audio or video. This also happens often to 17-3 (which usually broadcasts a color bar test pattern).
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what could cause lack of video and audio while the signal strength is very good? Is this a transmission problem?


*Multipath.*

Your measured signal level is the sum [desired signal]+[multipath] and, depending on the equalizer of your Rx, the multipath, depending on its nature, may or may not be attenuated. Either way it becomes destructive noise that throws your video & audio over the digital cliff.


----------



## AloEuro

...." no audio or video. This also happens often to 17-3 (which usually broadcasts a color bar test pattern)."

K Media MBC17-3 is listed as HD but it never broadcast, color bars.17-4 KRadio.

The GlobalChristianBroadcast 17-1 and Korean English subt.17-2 are SD


----------



## kickass69

For the first time ever, I'm able to pull in WABC 7 and WNET 13 with a pair of rabbit ears being 35 miles from NYC. Still can't get WPIX or Fox 5 (Channel 44) though. Have they both boosted their signals any?


----------



## SnellKrell

No!


Although 7 has applied for an increase in power - hasn't been granted yet, if ever!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17725381
> 
> 
> ...." no audio or video. This also happens often to 17-3 (which usually broadcasts a color bar test pattern)."
> 
> K Media MBC17-3 is listed as HD but it never broadcast, color bars.17-4 KRadio.
> 
> The GlobalChristianBroadcast 17-1 and Korean English subt.17-2 are SD



They're broadcasting a 17-4?


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17726663
> 
> 
> No!
> 
> 
> Although 7 has applied for an increase in power - hasn't been granted yet, if ever!



Probably never will either since WNJB won't be moving to 4TS.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17728233
> 
> 
> Probably never will be since WNJB won't be moving to 4TS.



Bingo!


----------



## StudioTech

Now if RF45 was still available (is it BTW?) maybe, just maybe WABC would come to their senses and move back there... IF it's still available.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC, if it came to its senses to give up its mythical "7," could recapture it.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm pretty sure 45 is no longer available to WABC due to the presence of WLIG-CA seeking displacement from 26 to 45.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

They chopped off too many stations off UHF. Starting at channel 52 is pathetic. They should have started at channel 59 or 60. Because of this you have too many digital and low power analog stations crammed into many channel spots so if a station tries to move like WPVI in Philadelphia they can't and are stuck in low VHF.


----------



## AloEuro

Trip - 17-4is only radio/audio in korean but no sound.alo


----------



## reddice

The biggest thing that annoys me about digital is that one day a station can be strong and stable and then the next day without even touching or moving the antenna it is weak and a breakup mess. The offenders are RF's 11, 28, 30, 36 and 51.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17731466
> 
> 
> They chopped off too many stations off UHF. Starting at channel 52 is pathetic. They should have started at channel 59 or 60. Because of this you have too many digital and low power analog stations crammed into many channel spots so if a station tries to move like WPVI in Philadelphia they can't and are stuck in low VHF.



And yet the FCC wants even more.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1192114


----------



## kickass69

"Originally Posted by Ken H

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 12/11/2009


The National Association of Broadcasters is calling on stations to take their case directly to viewers for the value of their service, as the drumbeat in Washington for reclaiming broadcast spectrum grows louder by the day...


On the same day the NAB email went out, the FCC named its first Distinguished Scholar in Residence, Duke Law Professor Stuart Benjamin, to ponder spectrum and First Amendment issues. That pick had some broadcasters seeing red, given his writings suggesting, only partly in jest he says, that broadcasters should be regulated out of existence by any means necessary so that their spectrum could be given over to wireless broadband."



That Benjamin guy is a complete ass wanting to throw away the 70 year broadcasting industry just for useless wireless broadband so more teens can get on Facebook and Twitter while hitting people from behind in traffic. People like him think we should be dependant on the internet for absolutely everything and not having anything seperate from it. This moron is dangerous and yet the FCC chooses him...so much for being "guardians' of the spectrum.


----------



## nycdigital09

They chopped off too many stations off UHF. Starting at channel 52 is pathetic. They should have started at channel 59 or 60. Because of this you have too many digital and low power analog stations crammed into many channel spots so if a station tries to move like WPVI in Philadelphia they can't and are stuck in low VHF.


they should get rid off low power stations, does anybody really watch their programming, so pathetic. just my opinion.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17736362
> 
> 
> they should get rid off low power stations, does anybody really watch their programming, so pathetic. just my opinion.



You do realize that in some markets the LP stations are actually network affiliates? So, in those markets, someone does watch it. Also, there are actually more LP stations and translators than Full power stations.


----------



## AloEuro

In case you wanted to know,Ch.68-1 Telefutura is HD 1920x1080i at 30hz. the same as 47-1Telemundo.

68-2 Univision41 runs input 720x480i.

It's too much trouble to access 41,may loose other like 31ion, I suppose that in reverse way 41-1 Univ.would be HD and 41-2(Telefutura68-1) would be 720x480i.


----------



## reddice

Also the government is doing squat with channels 52 to 69. I can't believe HSN is still on the air in analog on channel 60 6 months after the transition. That tells me that it is a waste.


----------



## AloEuro

..." they should get rid off low power stations, does anybody really watch their programming, so pathetic. just my opinion."

Ch.34-1 CVwhatever is low power, but I am sure the haitians love to watch their Port-au-Prince 1hr. daily News, and the spanish antics wish I could understand, no cc3/CS2


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17744883
> 
> 
> Also the government is doing squat with channels 52 to 69. I can't believe HSN is still on the air in analog on channel 60 6 months after the transition. That tells me that it is a waste.




govt got billions on the spectrum from at&t and verizon. its them (not the govt) that will be doing something with that expensive spectrum. so its NOT a waste.


----------



## pm123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17745098
> 
> 
> Ch.34-1 CV whatever is low power, but I am sure the haitians love to watch their Port-au-Prince 1hr. daily News, and the spanish antics wish I could understand, no cc3/CS2



Does 34-1 broadcast anything but infomercials? They used to have programming on from about 4pm to 10pm but for the past 2 weeks or so, it seems to be only infomercials.


Also their website has been down for a month or more....


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm123* /forum/post/17746269
> 
> 
> Does 34-1 broadcast anything but infomercials? They used to have programming on from about 4pm to 10pm but for the past 2 weeks or so, it seems to be only infomercials.
> 
> 
> Also their website has been down for a month or more....



Few weeks ago 34-1 had serious breakdown, yellow or pink screen only, it

seems that they are back to normal, in the mornings they used to run usually haitian News, at noon also news from Spain, as you said lot's of infomercials,

at night they had Infieles, but lately I didn't have time to see what they show. alo


----------



## martianpete

Hey, did everyone else lose FOX-5 today?


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17750622
> 
> 
> Few weeks ago 34-1 had serious breakdown, yellow or pink screen only, it seems that they are back to normal, in the mornings they used to run usually haitian News, at noon also news from Spain, as you said lot's of infomercials, at night they had Infieles, but lately I didn't have time to see what they show. alo



What about that dumb show with Lucky the clown (El Show de Lucky) and the precocious kids that sing that "Happy Birthday, Cha, Cha, Cha" song.


Depressing that I can get 34-1, but I usually can't get 11-1. Sometimes I can't even get 7-1 or 13-1.


----------



## nordloewelabs

it's been 6 months since the switch and I wonder how much this reception problem bothers the ABC executives... do they consider it a minor loss in Viewership or a major blunder?


it seems that the FCC will neither grant them a power increase nor a second transmitter.... what's plan "c" for those unfortunate souls?


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/17712025
> 
> 
> Did Ion offer specifics as to timing? Also, what is a "headend"? I apologize in advance for my ignorance (I was unable to find an answer using google.)



Anyone have any update as to timing of improving their reception? Someone mentioned that they remember hearing on an Ion broadcast that Ion plans on making improvements to their signal. Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

Ion has upped its power using its auxiliary antenna on the ESB.


The planned major work, moving to the station's new digital antenna further up on the ESB's Antenna Mast is yet to be completed. It was supposed to have been operational this past August. The station had informed the FCC that it would miss that date - we're all still waiting. Once the transition took place, I lost my ability to receive the station!


Don't know if this is directly related to the problem, but Ion has been in receivership for a while - it declared bankruptcy. With all the OTA stations Ion owns, the financial strains of the transition must have been a tremendous financial burden.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17754205
> 
> 
> Ion has upped its power using its auxiliary antenna on the ESB.
> 
> 
> The planned major work, moving to the station's new digital antenna further up on the ESB's Antenna Mast is yet to be completed. It was supposed to have been operational this past August. The station had informed the FCC that it would miss that date - we're all still waiting. Once the transition took place, I lost my ability to receive the station!
> 
> 
> Don't know if this is directly related to the problem, but Ion has been in receivership for a while - it declared bankruptcy. With all the OTA stations Ion owns, the financial strains of the transition must have been a tremendous financial strain.



thx for the info. I appreciate it. for some reason, after being reliable for months, my ion signal has gone mia the last few weeks while all my other signals have remained reliable. I wonder why this happened? (My daughter loves Qubo so that is why I care so much)


----------



## reddice

I got ION for about a week weak in the high 40's to low 50's with lots of breakup but since yesterday I lost it again. Back to the low 20's with only a black screen saying low signal.


----------



## dvdchance

Is it just me or are others not getting any PSIP info from the WNET-13 stations?


I'm using a DTV Pal DVR and since Thurs or Fri I get no information for the 3 stations.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17756926
> 
> 
> I got ION for about a week weak in the high 40's to low 50's with lots of breakup but since yesterday I lost it again. Back to the low 20's with only a black screen saying low signal.



He was very friendly and told me that they are in the midst of "switching buildings" and currently are NOT broadcasting at full strength as a result. However, he said that by New Year's at the latest, ION will be broadcasting at full strength stronger than before. Great news for my children as they are missing watching Qubo.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Switching Buildings"?????????????????


Huh?????


I look forward to once again being able to receive this station.


By the New Year would be great - that's just some 10 days!


Ion's petition to get out of bankruptcy was just denied by the court!


Any bets????


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17762301
> 
> 
> "Switching Buildings"?????????????????
> 
> 
> Huh?????
> 
> 
> I look forward to once again being able to receive this station.
> 
> 
> By the New Year would be great - that's just some 10 days!
> 
> 
> Ion's petition to get out of bankruptcy was just denied by the court!
> 
> 
> Any bets????



Snell -


The gentleman I spoke to really seemed very confident. He said that they are merely "breaking down some equipment" and re-assembling it in a new building. He said they are actively working on it today. I have no reason to doubt him. (Of course, I also wouldn't be shocked-to-death if I turn on my TV on Jan 1 and am still unable to pick up ION. Although I am not a bankruptcy lawyer, I doubt that there is any direct connection between ION's bankruptcy petition and the work being done by them.


----------



## SnellKrell

How does WPXN pay for its promised new transmission facility on the ESB?


It's been delayed since August! I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a connection between Ion's financial difficulties and the delay in improving its signal.


I really do look forward to the station making improvements.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17762426
> 
> 
> How does WPXN pay for its promised new transmission facility on the ESB?
> 
> 
> It's been delayed since August! I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a connection between Ion's financial difficulties and the delay in improving its signal.
> 
> 
> I really do look forward to the station making improvements.



Snell -


I just saw the following press release from earlier this morning:



ION Media Networks Completes Financial Restructuring

Posted : Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:28:39 GMT

Author : ION Media Networks, Inc.

Category : Press Release

News Alerts by Email ( click here )

Press Release News | Home




NEW YORK - (Business Wire) ION Media Networks, Inc. ("ION"), owner and operator of the ION Television, qubo, and ION Life broadcast networks, today announced that it has successfully completed its financial restructuring. The company also announced that it has received all necessary approvals from the Federal Communications Commission for the ownership change pursuant to its plan of reorganization.


In a brief and seamless restructuring process, the company was able to eliminate over $2.7 billion in legacy debt and preferred stock claims. ION emerges debt-free and with equity growth funding from its owners, which include Avenue Capital, Black Diamond Capital, and Trilogy Capital as the three largest holders backing the company's plan.


We are pleased about completing our financial restructuring so smoothly and appreciate the support of our stakeholders and employees, said Brandon Burgess, ION's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. Emerging debt-free with $150 million in growth funding will allow us to further build our TV content brands, as well as develop the value of our digital spectrum and technology assets.


ION has emerged from Chapter 11 under its Fourth Modified Joint Plan of Reorganization, which was confirmed by the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York on December 3, 2009.


Kirkland & Ellis LLP is serving as legal counsel to ION and Moelis & Company LLC is serving as financial advisor in connection with the restructuring.


About ION Media Networks


ION Media Networks, Inc. owns and operates the nation's largest broadcast television station group and ION Television, which reaches over 96 million U.S. television households via its nationwide broadcast television, cable and satellite distribution systems. It features popular TV series and movies from the award-winning libraries of CBS Television, NBC Universal, Sony Pictures Television, Twentieth Television and Warner Bros., among others. Using its DTV spectrum capacity, the Company has launched new digital TV brands, including qubo, the nation's only nationwide over-the-air kids network, and ION Life, a channel dedicated to active living and personal growth. It also has launched Open Mobile Ventures Corporation, a unit focused on the development of portable, mobile and out-of-home transmission technology using over-the-air digital television spectrum. For more information, visit www.ionmedia.com .


Forward-Looking Statements


This release contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 that are subject to the safe harbor provisions created by that Act. In addition, forward-looking statements may be made orally in the future by or on behalf of the Company. Forward-looking statements can be identified by the use of terms such as expects, should, may, believes, anticipates, will, and other future tense and forward-looking terminology. There can be no assurance as to the actual results of the undertakings described herein. These forward-looking statements are made only as of the date of this report, and we undertake no obligation to update or revise the forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.




For ION Media Networks, Inc.

Abernathy MacGregor

Lex Suvanto / Adam Miller, 212-371-5999
[email protected] 
[email protected]


----------



## SnellKrell

Your information is later than mine.


I'm glad that Ion has this pall lifted.


I've been scratching my head about the delay in the station's authorized move to the ESB's Antenna Mast - 1302' with 349kW ERP.


When WPXN made the transition to digital 31 (from Channel 30), it elected to

use its analog antenna location on the Mooring Mast - 1181' with 100kW ERP.


It recently spent time and money to up the ERP to 180kW still using the interim facility at 1181' instead of migrating up to the Antenna Mast with

359kW.


The station has delayed the move - it was suppose to have happened last August. Why?????


My frustration is that I cannot receive the station since its "temporary" move to its lower location.


I hope all that you've heard from Ion is will occur by the New Year.


----------



## reddice

What I got ION for a week it was the first time I was able to receive it. I could not get it pre transition on RF 30 and not post transition on RF 31.


If they will move and boost power on new years would be great but as I learned with digital reception I am not hopeful I will still be able to get it.


----------



## Broadcast Guy

On Friday,12/11 WYBE (Channel 35 RF) moved its antenna to a top mounted position on the tall "candelabra" tower in Roxborough (Philadelphia, PA) and increased its power to 450 kW ERP. Prior to the move, they were stationed on a sidemount antenna, transmitting at just 150kW ERP, barely getting out of the Market. I am in the southern-most county of the NY DMA in NJ and am now receiving them at a 94% signal level.


The new signal is circularly polarized. This is a good thing for (among other things) the up and coming Mobile DTV. If you are interested in more on this geeky polarization stuff pls paste the following link into your browser:

naob-advocacy.informz.net/naob-advocacy/archives/archive_548179.html 



I see that there are a number of "in the know" OTA folks on the NY OTA site. If it's not too much trouble, and if you have the ability to steer your antenna toward the Philly antenna farm... I would like to ask you to a few questions regarding your OTA WYBE (Channel 35) signal:


What is your % signal level?

What is your zip code?

What OTA equipment (receiver and antenna) are you using?



My household's WYBE signal information is as follows:


Zip = 08512 (I'm about 45-50 miles from the transmitter)

Current Signal Level = 94%


My equipment is a Panasonic Viera Plasma HD TV with an ATSC tuner, a rooftop Wingard 9095P Yagi antenna with a Winegard AP-4700 preamp.


There's no need to get too techy... but would really appreciate your replying with whatever you can regarding your WYBE signal.


My name is Bob. I am a friend to this station (and other commercial and non-commercial / independent broadcasters). I can also be found at BroadcasterConsulting.com.


Thank you!


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17762883
> 
> 
> I've been scratching my head about the delay in the station's authorized move to the ESB's Antenna Mast - 1302' with 349kW ERP.
> 
> 
> When WPXN made the transition to digital 31 (from Channel 30), it elected to
> 
> use its analog antenna location on the Mooring Mast - 1181' with 100kW ERP.



1302' would be 1.5' above the dome (mooring mast) relative to mean sea level and 50' higher relative to ground level.

There is no space for D31 antenna in either location.

Perhaps after the old analog antennas are removed...whenever that happens...


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/17770584
> 
> 
> 1302' would be 1.5' above the dome (mooring mast) relative to mean sea level and 50' higher relative to ground level.
> 
> There is no space for D31 antenna in either location.
> 
> Perhaps after the old analog antennas are removed...whenever that happens...



1302' (397 m) refers to the FCC's measurement of HAAT - Height Above Average Terrain which is clearly more than 1.5' above the Mooring Mast's dome.


Putting that aside, what makes no sense to me, is that the station's filing with the FCC speficies this height. But what I can't understand is that this is the exact location of WCBS's side-mounted antenna that is used as the UHF Combiner.


Additionally, WPXN's filing calls for a directional pattern - so, with my limited RF engineering knowledge, with the UHF Combiner's antenna being non-directional, the station could not become a part of this Combiner.


It's all spelled out and there as part of FCC public records!


I'm at a loss.


I've e-mailed the station with questions and no response yet. Hope their engineers are too busy because they're trying to improve the signal.


----------



## George Molnar

Quote:

Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* 
1302' (397 m) refers to the FCC's measurement of HAAT - Height Above Average Terrain which is clearly more than 1.5' above the Mooring Mast's dome.


Putting that aside, what makes no sense to me, is that the station's filing with the FCC speficies this height. But what I can't understand is that this is the exact location of WCBS's side-mounted antenna that is used as the UHF Combiner.


Additionally, WPXN's filing calls for a directional pattern - so, with my limited RF engineering knowledge, with the UHF Combiner's antenna being non-directional, the station could not become a part of this Combiner.


It's all spelled out and there as part of FCC public records!


I'm at a loss.


I've e-mailed the station with questions and no response yet. Hope their engineers are too busy because they're trying to improve the signal.
*On 12/17/08 the FCC granted WPXN a construction permit for 349KW ERP from 397M AAT using directional mast mounted antennas having their radiation center at 395M above ground. The base elevation of Empire State Bldg. is 15.5M AMSL and overall height of Empire's transmitting mast is 443M above ground. Their application included a sketch.*

 

WPXN-TV CP 12-17-08.pdf 198.5751953125k . file


----------



## DTVintermods

That is what they hope for but this entire aperture is occupied by other antennas, VHF,UHF & FM. So don't expect D31 antenna above the dome in the near future, let alone by Xmas 2009


----------



## SnellKrell

You forget that a lot of hardware from the analog days has been and will continue to be removed.


Additional stations have applied to move farther up the Antenna Mast some are -

WNYW, WWOR and WNJU.


----------



## DTVintermods

To my knowledge all of the analog TV antennas are still on the mast. None removed.


----------



## keyboard21

Anyone else now getting Channel 64.1?


My aunt says it just came on for her.

*I found this information:


WASA-LP is a low-power television station in Port Jervis, New York, serving the New York City market as an independent station on channel 64. WASA is owned by Venture Technologies Group, LLC. The station broadcasts its analog signal from its transmitter east of Lake Mohawk, New Jersey.


In April 2009 it was announced that it would sell this station to Liberman Broadcasting for $6 Million, making NYC the 6th market to be served by Liberman if the sale is approved by the Federal Communications Commission*


I can NOT find this station on TVfool or on TV listings?


I was told they are showing music bands and also have a city picture on 64.2 with no sound.


Anyone else seeing this?


Was this station always on digital (and my aunt could not pick it up with the antenna) or is this station new for digital?




PS This station is in English.


If taken over by Liberman. Looks like more Spanish stations are coming

http://www.lbimedia.com/


----------



## Trip in VA

Interesting, since Liberman owns Spanish-language Estrella TV...


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17771721
> 
> 
> Interesting, since Liberman owns Spanish-language Estrella TV...
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hey Trip, Happy Holidays to you and family.


Yes very interesting. I wonder if you guys in the know could find out if the acquisition was finalized? Only announced in April of this year.


Are you picking this station up? So far just music band from the 60's, 70's , 80's. Says my aunt.


----------



## Trip in VA

Merry Christmas to you as well.


I'm not in the area yet, give me another week and a half. I'll be looking for it so I can add the listing to RabbitEars.


It was granted by the FCC in May. They've not yet closed the sale, though. They've filed two 90 day extensions (one in August and one in November). I assume Liberman wants the signal on the air before the deal is closed. Plus, isn't Estrella on a subchannel of WPIX now?


Any chance the programming is from The Cool TV?


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17771799
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas to you as well.
> 
> 
> I'm not in the area yet, give me another week and a half. I'll be looking for it so I can add the listing to RabbitEars.
> 
> 
> It was granted by the FCC in May. They've not yet closed the sale, though. They've filed two 90 day extensions (one in August and one in November). I assume Liberman wants the signal on the air before the deal is closed. Plus, isn't Estrella on a subchannel of WPIX now?
> 
> 
> Any chance the programming is from The Cool TV?
> 
> 
> - Trip



I have not seen it yet. Just what my Aunt told me. What is The COOL TV?


My Aunt was happy it was an English station. Since she does not speak Spanish. I told her the format might/will change.


We are still waiting for a movie station. Still nothing


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cool_TV 


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

"Plus, isn't Estrella on a subchannel of WPIX now?"



Si!


----------



## Trip in VA

SiliconDust now sees WASA-LD.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17771838
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cool_TV
> 
> 
> - Trip



It could be. I will ask her to look to see how many hours a day it has music.


She was so excited to have a new station and in a language she could understand. Even though she does watch a Spanish Soap Opera. She says she understands the major points.


FYI- She has no problem with ION and never has. Funny how others here are having trouble with it.


----------



## pantrychef

I can see it. Signal strength same as WNBC. Currently PSIP is also (incorrectly) set to 25. Sub 1 is showing infomercials and Sub 2 is showing NYC scenery slideshow.


----------



## pantrychef

48.2 ceased showing CCTV-9 on December 21. It has been replaced by Arirang TV. According to the Arirang TV website, programming should have launched August 12 on 48.3

http://www.arirang.co.kr/prroom/2009...p?sys_lang=Eng 


Arirang TV is the English Service of The Korea International Broadcasting Corporation based in Seoul, Republic of Korea (South Korea).


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/17772927
> 
> 
> I can see it. Signal strength same as WNBC. Currently PSIP is also (incorrectly) set to 25. Sub 1 is showing infomercials and Sub 2 is showing NYC scenery slideshow.



Was it there before or a new digital station?


----------



## William Piddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Broadcast Guy* /forum/post/17766109
> 
> 
> On Friday,12/11 WYBE (Channel 35 RF) moved its antenna to a top mounted position on the tall "candelabra" tower in Roxborough (Philadelphia, PA) and increased its power to 450 kW ERP. Prior to the move, they were stationed on a sidemount antenna, transmitting at just 150kW ERP, barely getting out of the Market. I am in the southern-most county of the NY DMA in NJ and am now receiving them at a 94% signal level.
> 
> 
> The new signal is circularly polarized. This is a good thing for (among other things) the up and coming Mobile DTV. If you are interested in more on this geeky polarization stuff pls paste the following link into your browser:
> 
> naob-advocacy.informz.net/naob-advocacy/archives/archive_548179.html
> 
> 
> 
> I see that there are a number of "in the know" OTA folks on the NY OTA site. If it's not too much trouble, and if you have the ability to steer your antenna toward the Philly antenna farm... I would like to ask you to a few questions regarding your OTA WYBE (Channel 35) signal:
> 
> 
> What is your % signal level?
> 
> What is your zip code?
> 
> What OTA equipment (receiver and antenna) are you using?
> 
> 
> 
> My household's WYBE signal information is as follows:
> 
> 
> Zip = 08512 (I'm about 45-50 miles from the transmitter)
> 
> Current Signal Level = 94%
> 
> 
> My equipment is a Panasonic Viera Plasma HD TV with an ATSC tuner, a rooftop Wingard 9095P Yagi antenna with a Winegard AP-4700 preamp.
> 
> 
> There's no need to get too techy... but would really appreciate your replying with whatever you can regarding your WYBE signal.
> 
> 
> My name is Bob. I am a friend to this station (and other commercial and non-commercial / independent broadcasters). I can also be found at BroadcasterConsulting.com.
> 
> 
> Thank you!



My apartment is in mid-town Manhattan (area code 10019). I am receiving 35.3, 35.4, 35.5 and 35.6. I have a Sony Bravia TV and a Radio Shack indoor bow-tie antenna. I am on the 56th floor facing South. The signal strength peaks at 38 with no drop outs. For your information, I also receive 26.1 (KYW-TV) which peaks at 43. Since I am so high up, I think my situation is somewhat unique for mid-town Manhattan.


----------



## KML-224

Wow! Do you receive any other out-of-market stations up there?


----------



## William Piddle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/17773834
> 
> 
> Wow! Do you receive any other out-of-market stations up there?



The only other out of market station I receive with some regularity is WCAU from Philadelphia on 34.3, 34.4 and 34.5. Before the transition, I also used to receive WPVI but since they moved to RF channel 6 there has been no sign of them.


I also can receive some stations in the New York market that I do not think people in Manhattan normally receive including WRNN on channel 48, WEDW on channel 49, WTBY on channel 54, WMBC on channel 63 and WFME on channel 66.


----------



## Broadcast Guy

Receiving Philadelphia's WYBE - RF 35 - in Midtown Manhattan with a Bow tie antenna... WOW!!


Thank you for the info!!


----------



## George Molnar

Quote:

Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* 
That is what they hope for but this entire aperture is occupied by other antennas, VHF,UHF & FM. So don't expect D31 antenna above the dome in the near future, let alone by Xmas 2009
*Is is possible to interleave different antennas? (From these photos that Scott Fybush has published it looks like multiple antennas share the same aperture on Empire's mast.)


How long does the FCC allow WPXN to install and activate their new antenna? Has WPXN released a date or is that conjecture or wishful thinking?*

 

Empire State Mast Photos.pdf 195.013671875k . file


----------



## reddice

The only station I and still can only receive with that cruddy Radio Shack indoor bow-tie antenna is that cruddy WFME. Heck a paper clip with a string can probably receive WFME where I live.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/17776100
> 
> *Is is possible to interleave different antennas? (From these photos that Scott Fybush has published it looks like multiple antennas share the same aperture on Empire's mast.)
> 
> 
> How long does the FCC allow WPXN to install and activate their new antenna? Has WPXN released a date or is that conjecture or wishful thinking?*



Interleaving is not practical in this case because the mast above the dome is already at its mechanical load limit and interleaving would degrade the coverage of any existing active DTV or FM antenna at the location where WPXN would be interleaved. When some or all of the nonactive analog TV antennas are removed, mast capacity and aperture for a new WPXN antenna could become available. But as I noted earlier, so far none of the analog TV antennas have been removed from the mast above the dome.


I don't think the FCC will interfere with the status quo as long as WPXN tries to improve...I'm not aware of any date released or planned by WPXN [I'm not an insider]. My guess is that as far as going higher at ESB, it's not going to happen soon.


----------



## AloEuro

As the aunt did and as Pantrychef has said - Add on Scan will give you ch.64 LD Port Jervis, NY attached to 25. then

25-1 TBA WASA-LD/LP 704x480 at 30Hz Infomercials

25-2 '' ''' '''' Slideshow

25-3 WNYE1-25.1

25-4 '' .2

However the ch.64 becomes disengaged from 25 finding own slot at 64-1.2.; using iNet 1921 Access SSR conv. box.

Merry and blessed Christmas to all of you,alo.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/17776737
> 
> 
> Interleaving is not practical in this case because the mast above the dome is already at its mechanical load limit and interleaving would degrade the coverage of any existing active DTV or FM antenna at the location where WPXN would be interleaved. When some or all of the nonactive analog TV antennas are removed, mast capacity and aperture for a new WPXN antenna could become available. But as I noted earlier, so far none of the analog TV antennas have been removed from the mast above the dome.
> 
> 
> I don't think the FCC will interfere with the status quo as long as WPXN tries to improve...I'm not aware of any date released or planned by WPXN [I'm not an insider]. My guess is that as far as going higher at ESB, it's not going to happen soon.



WPXN's granted application (12/17/08) to move to 397 m (HAAT) on the Antenna Mast clearly indicates in its Figure 1 illustration the presence of 2 side mounted antennas. As had been mentioned previously, this exact height is the location of the WCBS Combiner which also accommodates WNBC and WWOR. The WCBS Combiner uses only 1 side mounted antenna, the additional fill-in antennas to make up for a side mounted antenna's inability to truly provide an non-directional signal - the mast is in the way, are located well below at 310 m.


WPXN's 1/21/09 filing specifically mentions the dates of 2/18 - 8/18/09 as the period in which it would be using its existing analog auxiliary antenna. Obviously, the station is way behind in its move.


Other filings talk about the master antenna - which to me means the Combiner.


Is the station planning to add an additional side mounted antenna adjoining the current one at 377 m?


Will it become a new member of the UHF Combiner group?


I would think an additional side mounted antenna would be a further detriment to 33, 28 and 38's non-directional pattern.


WPXN's granted application calls for a directional pattern. In my limited knowledge, a combined antenna can't have 3 stations emitting a

non-directional and 1 transmitting a directional pattern.


This is all very strange and confusing.


The station still hasn't answered my questions.


Most importantly, I still can't receive WPXN!


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17777094
> 
> 
> 
> WPXN's granted application calls for a directional pattern. In my limited knowledge, a combined antenna can't have 3 stations emitting a
> 
> non-directional and 1 transmitting a directional pattern.



Not quite. WPXN could reduce its power to 1/4 of authorized and then join WCBS, WNBC and WWOR on the common non-directional antenna. At that power they will protect the Hartford station.

I think this would be a reasonable interim solution. I think it would serve them better than staying 100 feet lower and on the side of ESB with undesired forced (by the building) directional pattern...


----------



## LenL

Just about all of my OTA stations were coming in at mid 80s or better. In fact except for a few that were mid 80's most were in the mid 90's or better. I even had a few hit 100%. I looked at the Tropo website and there was nothing abnormal about Wed.


So did anyone else experience great reception? Or was it just isolated to my CM4228 antenna and my house?


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/17777418
> 
> 
> Not quite. WPXN could reduce its power to 1/4 of authorized and then join WCBS, WNBC and WWOR on the common non-directional antenna. At that power they will protect the Hartford station.
> 
> I think this would be a reasonable interim solution. I think it would serve them better than staying 100 feet lower and on the side of ESB with undesired forced (by the building) directional pattern...



ION appears to be back to normal (i.e., how it was a few weeks back). Only time will tell if this is permanent or or not. Maybe the multipath from Santa's sleigh is helping.


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 has been bad lately for me. I get it in high 50's to 60's but it keeps breaking up for a second. Very annoying trying to watch something with it breaking up for a second. You miss what they are going to say. During the summer I did not have this problem. I find that the high VHF band does that to much. The UHF channels don't have that problem.


----------



## keyboard21

So it looks like Santa brought us a New (kinda new) station on channel 64.1 64.2


Not really a movie channel we were hoping. Maybe in the new year?


----------



## disafan

I'm trying to adjust the reception to better pick up this new 64 station clearly. But what sort of programming is on it that might make it worth it?


----------



## SnellKrell

64.1 - Infomercials


64.2 - Slide show of NYC scenes


Just what we all wanted and needed!


----------



## dvdchance

Where is the 64.1 stations broadcast from? Is it a LP station? Any idea what their future plans are for the stations?


----------



## SnellKrell

The station's transmitter is located at the Conde Nast Building - known as 4TS.


I don't know about its future programming plans.


You could always call the station.


----------



## dvdchance

It must be a very low power station. I just scanned for new channels on my DTVPal DVR and it didn't find it. My outdoor antenna is pointed to NYC and I get all the other NY stations in the high 90's. I'm in northeast Middlesex County, NJ zip 07008.


----------



## SnellKrell

15Kw ERP.


----------



## MikeTheEss

NOOB!


I just got 64 here in western nassau/queens line.


Anyone have any developments on WLIW? I'm sort of in the boat of commenters on this WLIW comments page:


(First post can not post URL)


If I futz around with a cheapo bow-tie rabbit ears combo I can get a shaky WLIW signal. Perhaps a better indoor antenna to alternate with my new Winegard up on the chimney will fix the problem.


One Saturday morning I actually did get a crystal clear WPXU (channel 12) signal. Didn't last long though. Perhaps it was some kind of test signal.


I also lost WNYZ not long ago, not that I really miss it. My Winegard has no VHF-lo elements. Is it still out there?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/17793351
> 
> 
> It must be a very low power station. I just scanned for new channels on my DTVPal DVR and it didn't find it. My outdoor antenna is pointed to NYC and I get all the other NY stations in the high 90's. I'm in northeast Middlesex County, NJ zip 07008.



I'm 30 miles west and I get it quite well for it being low power.


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17793228
> 
> 
> The station's [WXXX/64] transmitter is located at the Conde Nast Building - known as 4TS.



WASA/64 is licensed to Port Jervis. From 4TS, its 15 kW facility doesn't reach the community of license with a 51 dbU signal.


Could someone provide a refresher on service contour requirements for low-power television stations?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *re_nelson* /forum/post/17794853
> 
> 
> Could someone provide a refresher on service contour requirements for low-power television stations?



There aren't any.


- Trip


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17795045
> 
> 
> There aren't any [service contour requirements for the community of license for LPTV].



To what illogical extreme will the FCC permit this?


For instance could an low power station erect an antenna on ESB but use, say, Charlotte Court House, VA as its community of license?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *re_nelson* /forum/post/17795376
> 
> 
> To what illogical extreme will the FCC permit this?
> 
> 
> For instance could an low power station erect an antenna on ESB but use, say, Charlotte Court House, VA as its community of license?



No!


But according to the FCC, Port Jervis, Orange County, New York, the "home" of WASA is a part of Nielsen's New York DMA and has the right to place its antenna on West 42nd Street in Manhattan.


If it were not a low-power station, it could demand carriage by cable and satellite services providing local stations' signals in the NY DMA.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *re_nelson* /forum/post/17795376
> 
> 
> To what illogical extreme will the FCC permit this?
> 
> 
> For instance could an low power station erect an antenna on ESB but use, say, Charlotte Court House, VA as its community of license?



If the station started in Charlotte Court House and displaced itself over and over to the ESB, then yes. They can't just specify any city; when the application is first filed it has to cover the community of license, but once it seeks displacement, it doesn't matter anymore.


That is my understanding of the rules.


- Trip


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17796008
> 
> 
> If the [low power] station started in Charlotte Court House and displaced itself over and over to the ESB, then yes. They can't just specify any city; when the application is first filed it has to cover the community of license, but once it seeks displacement, it doesn't matter anymore.
> 
> 
> That is my understanding of the rules.



That seems to be case here in the Dallas-Ft. Worth market. Just today KSFW/Gainesville, TX (200 watts on channel 2) filed to change the transmitter from far, far north of the market to a site in downtown Dallas with 300 watts which hasn't a whiff of chance of putting any signal over the community of license.


This squares with the incremental moves referred to by Trip since KSFW has gradually been moving ever close to the heart of the market.


----------



## reddice

What RF channel is 64 on. I don't care if I can get it since it is all infomercials. I hate infomercial channels. A big waste of space. Talking about infomercials I can't believe a major station like WCBS shows infomercials in the afternoon around 3 PM yesterday instead of football. Hello show that crud at 3 AM not 3 PM. Show football like you suppose to.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17800192
> 
> 
> What RF channel is 64 on.



25.


Just letting everyone know I'm making my trip to New Jersey tomorrow. So I'll be able to collect some updated data soon! =)


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Bon Voyage!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17800491
> 
> 
> Bon Voyage!



Thanks!


For anyone wondering, here's what TV Fool says for my grandparents' house. I put it at 15 feet because I think that's about how high up I'll be using the VHF bowtie on the second floor of the house.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...410586d63cf220 


WASA-LD is not yet listed, but I hope to receive that one too.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

Well, the romance with ch.64 lasted way too long, just as the roman has said -I saw it, heard, and felt and got fed up and it's time to throw up -Edit out - DE-LE-TE.

The post office has junk mail-the pc Internet has spasm-the TV have infomercials and

ch.64-1 has musical bands of ION31 medical of Azteca39 etc.-2slideshow, one of the pix

underground of WTC, until I hear praises of some of you gentlemen, bye ,bye ch.64


----------



## reddice

Can't get it. Hovers in the 20's to 0's. I am glad that I can't get it. Another cruddy 480i Infomercial channel that I will never watch anyway.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17800192
> 
> 
> What RF channel is 64 on. I don't care if I can get it since it is all infomercials. I hate infomercial channels. A big waste of space. Talking about infomercials I can't believe a major station like WCBS shows infomercials in the afternoon around 3 PM yesterday instead of football. Hello show that crud at 3 AM not 3 PM. Show football like you suppose to.



My aunt says they have Music bands on 64.1 and NYC skyline on 64.2 with no sound. Maybe preparing to have something soon on 64.2?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17800192
> 
> 
> I can't believe a major station like WCBS shows infomercials in the afternoon around 3 PM yesterday instead of football. Hello show that crud at 3 AM not 3 PM. Show football like you suppose to.



They weren't allowed to show a game yesterday because the Giants were playing at home at the same time. Per NFL rules.


----------



## jpru34

 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091229/...sters_in_peril


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/17805450
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091229/...sters_in_peril



Scary to say the least. TV was broadcast in the 1940's to bring information and news to the people. It was considered to be free. Now it loos like greed will stop what the FCC started in 1940


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/17805450
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091229/...sters_in_peril



Am I correct in saying all of our NYC network broadcasters are network-owned flagship stations?


If broadcast networks eliminate their affiliates, then broadcasters in rural areas will start showing the farm report during prime time and a whole new generation of Uncle Floyds will crop up. But we'll still have our NYC OTA stations.


If the broadcast networks go a step further, however, and convert to cable-only networks, then we'll all be huddled around the flickering light of channels like 25-2.


From what I've read, the most likely network to convert to cable is NBC. (Fox and MyNetworkTV are apparently engaged in a battle with TWC over subscriber fees. We OTA-ers may be the only ones to see 5.1 and 9.1 starting 1/1/10.) I suppose the least likely networks to convert to cable are PBS, Telemundo and Univision.


----------



## SnellKrell

First, your point about network-owned flagship stations - yes. ABC, CBS, Fox and nominally My NY DMA stations are owned by each parent network. The CW's NY station is owned by the Tribune company.


Broadcasters in rural areas will continue to buy syndicated programming - they already do that and would just buy more. In my opinion, there would be programming services available to them a form of "group" buying - a loser form of network affiliation than we know today.


"Convert to cable" - there are two prongs to this. One, totally abandoning OTA transmission. The second is what all broadcast networks will be adopting - changing the industry's business model - as with cable, two revenue streams - advertising and carriage fees paid by cable/satellite providers, and eventually the viewer.


This is what Fox is pushing right now with Time Warner Cable - CBS is also in the forefront with this concept. It's the future of traditional broadcast networks.


I can readily see Telemundo (owned by NBC Universal and more than likely will be transferred to Comcast) and Univision also migrating to the new business model.


PBS - that's another question.


----------



## AloEuro

Well, as long there still free radio, OTA-get rich quick Harvard educated schemers converted to cable, in the new year+ can kiss me you know where


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17808227
> 
> 
> Well, as long there still free radio, OTA-get rich quick Harvard educated schemers converted to cable, in the new year+ can kiss me you know where



Satellite Radio is not exactly saturating the market the way cable & satellite TV has. I imagine OTA radio is safe for now, especially since satellite radio is not doing well.


----------



## reddice

I lost channel 13 yesterday. Just a pixelated mess. I don't know what has been up with that channel lately. When I can get it gets alot of uncorrected errors (break ups). During the summer and fall channel 13 was stronger. Now actually Channel 11 has been stronger.


Also my mother got a 19" Samsung HDTV for another small bedroom right below my room on the second floor. She also bought the Terk HDTVi. She was hoping that she would be able to get all the channels but as usual channel 2, 5. 25, 47 and 68 come in okay about 4 to 5 bars. Channel 4 and 9 breaks up to no signal. Can't get 7, 11, 13, 31, 41. Then that nut-ball old geezer which is on there 90% of the time waste of space channel 66 comes in at 8 stinking bars. Unbelievable. I can get that station strong with a $1 antenna yet my mother is ticked that she can't get the NYC stations much closer. I told her that she needs a roof antenna. She will want to get one but my landlord my Grandmother said it can't be done because of the new windows that were put in and we can't drill no more holes in the windows.


----------



## nordloewelabs

not surprised that the Networks revenue is low. thei programming is bad. ppl are prolly getting saturated with Reality shows. that's what on tv most of the time.


Murdoch's claim that the high cost to make good programming is putting a dent on the networks profit doesnt make sense. all that reality stuff requires less investment since no one writes or directs anything. many times, it only takes a single camera to film it.


ppl are spending more time playing video games, browsing the 'net and watching shows online. therefore, there's less time for crappy network TV.


on the top of that, reception is a *****....


----------



## Trip in VA

I haven't done extensive testing yet, but I could not get the tilt out of 13's signal when I was collecting data on it before. It wasn't an awful looking tilt but still not flat like it should be. I'm not sure if it's on my end or on theirs, but if it is on theirs, that could be a source of some reception issues.


- Trip


----------



## jpru34

This is becoming an emotional roller-coaster for my daughter who loves Qubo. I really hope they wrap up whatever "maintenance" they are doing soon


----------



## nordloewelabs

i tried to watch "Uncle Buck" on Ion Family last night but the signal was breaking once a minute -- even though my converter box was reporting a steady 95%.


----------



## Trip in VA

I know everyone's rushing to delete WASA-LD, but I determined this afternoon that the station has a stat muxer for their two subchannels. The only reason I could see for them to do that and not get a much cheaper static bitrate encoder is if they're planning to add more subchannels.


So, either they splurged on a stat muxer they don't need, or infomercials and scenes of the city are not the end of the story.


- Trip


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17814621
> 
> 
> I told her that she needs a roof antenna. She will want to get one but my landlord my Grandmother said it can't be done because of the new windows that were put in and we can't drill no more holes in the windows.



You can use this kind of flat coaxial cable coupler to avoid drilling holes in wall to pass coax cable from outside (roof top, balcony, patio etc). I am using this to get the signals from my antenna from my balcony and passing it through the balcony door.
http://www.amazon.com/Pack-Flat-Coax.../ref=pd_cp_e_1 

these are cheap too and and you can use the second one, in case you decide to install satellite dish or a second antenna.


----------



## AloEuro

May God bless you in New year, give you good health and protect you and members of your family every day all year long and beyond, may we hear from you the contribution and advice in this forum throughout the year to name few - Trip in VA, SnellKrell, keyboard21,DTVintermods, George Molnar, Broadcast Guy, reddice, jpru34, dvdchance, nordloewelabs, johnosolis, pm123, nyctveng, martianpete,pantrychef, LenL,

nycdigital09, Lexus, Delphin,Talking rat, Bob...,Systems 2000,Ramittinski,Ken H and all other more than 800 000 contributors to AVSForum, may Lord be with you all year long.

May God give good work to women, energy to make and care for children, to cook and clean to take care of the house, maybe even laundry, and last but not least to warm up bed of husband; May God the Lord be with you all the men and women and children to give good health, and to protect you all year long, Alo.


----------



## SnellKrell

Thank you and the best to you and yours for the New Year!


----------



## Trip in VA

Happy New Year to everyone. =)


- Trip


----------



## George Molnar

Thanks AloEuro for the kind wishes and God Bless you, too.


----------



## nordloewelabs

thanks, AloEuro! Happy New Year to all!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17821571
> 
> 
> May God bless you in New year, give you good health and protect you and members of your family every day all year long and beyond, may we hear from you the contribution and advice in this forum throughout the year to name few - Trip in VA, SnellKrell, keyboard21,DTVintermods, George Molnar, Broadcast Guy, reddice, jpru34, dvdchance, nordloewelabs, johnosolis, pm123, nyctveng, martianpete,pantrychef, LenL,
> 
> nycdigital09, Lexus, Delphin,Talking rat, Bob...,Systems 2000,Ramittinski,Ken H and all other more than 800 000 contributors to AVSForum, may Lord be with you all year long.
> 
> May God give good work to women, energy to make and care for children, to cook and clean to take care of the house, maybe even laundry, and last but not least to warm up bed of husband; May God the Lord be with you all the men and women and children to give good health, and to protect you all year long, Alo.



you too


----------



## DTVintermods

*AloEuro and all*

Happy & Healthy New Decade.

Let this decade give birth to a new class of DTV receivers that can intelligently discriminate against indoor multipath and thus put me out of business.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/17805562
> 
> 
> Scary to say the least. TV was broadcast in the 1940's to bring information and news to the people. It was considered to be free. Now it loos like greed will stop what the FCC started in 1940




What I find strange is when so many are losing jobs or have pay cut back you would think TV cable would be the first thing to cut off. But they are losing the house but do not dare cut off the TV cable.


Back in 1974 we had a shortage of gas. There was also a shortage of gas saving small cars. You had to get on a waiting list to order a Ford Pinto or A Chevrolet Vega. You would have thought that when gas went well over the record high of $1.75 a gal you would have seen a shortage of small gas saving cars late in Clinton’s 2nd term in 2000. Then when gas was at $4.00 a gal in 2008 a gas saving small car shortage would have happened for sure then. But it did not happen.


This is some thing I just do not understand


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.rabbitears.info/specan/nyc-bowtie/ 


Taken just now with my VHF bowtie sitting on top of a desk hutch. I did adjust the position to try to get the cleanest possible signal on each station.


- Trip


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Then when gas was at $4.00 a gal in 2008 a gas saving small car shortage would have happened for sure then. But it did not happen.



Have you already forgotten how long the waiting list for a Prius was 18 months ago?


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17832250
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/specan/nyc-bowtie/
> 
> 
> Taken just now with my VHF bowtie sitting on top of a desk hutch. I did adjust the position to try to get the cleanest possible signal on each station.
> 
> 
> - Trip



This is a vivid demo of adjacent channel interference among channels 28-29-30-31. Each is victimized to a different degree.


The spectra of each DTV channel actually spreads over 3 channels, Thus, channel 29 gets the transmitter noise of channels 28 and 30 in addition to its own transmitter's noise. Then there the cross modulation noise among the four cited channels...


I do have a question. Channel 11 shows what appears to be signal on channel 12 and this signal does not appear next to channel 13, possibly because the rotation of the antenna. If so, which channel 12?


----------



## Trip in VA

There's nothing on 12. It's just noise from the computer next to the antenna that went away when I rotated the antenna. I thought the same thing when I saw it, so I moved the antenna around and the "signal" had no form to it and behaved like a noise source and not like a signal.


And I didn't see any interference between 28/29/30; they very clearly have gaps between them. (31's signal is AWFUL but I don't think that's anyone else's fault but their own.) I easily decoded all three of them two days ago without moving the antenna. I found a nice spot where WASA-LD decoded and then got all but one or two of the full-service stations in that spot, including all three of 28/29/30. If a station is using more than 6 MHz, either something is wrong, as the mask filter is supposed to chop off any emissions outside that band, or your receiver is overloading and you need an attenuator.


I'd love to put the antenna back in that spot where I had the good reception but the computer I'm using to take the pictures is a desktop and I don't have a USB-Serial adapter yet to be able to use it with a laptop.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

I just repositioned the antenna and changed the scale to get a weak signal from WEBR-CD 17 (it will not decode at that level). Also left a space for WNYN-LD 39 in case I can see it.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17832977
> 
> 
> And I didn't see any interference between 28/29/30;
> 
> - Trip



Thanks.

You can't "see" the XM and Tx interference from adjacent channels on a spectrum analyzer. It's buried in each channel. To "see" the interference you'll need to measure the channel's signal-noise ratio using modulation vector analyzer and turning the adjacent channels off and on.


----------



## Trip in VA

This analyzer does do MER. I've watched it at home where I have adjacents on 17 and 18. Both max out. When 17 was off the air on Dec 26, I checked and 18 improved by less than 1.5 dB, and that's because the auto-correction in the exciter is weird.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

So what'a the MER of 28-29-30-31 compared with that of 33?


----------



## Trip in VA

I haven't looked yet. I will have to do that later, but the multipath in here is vicious. The tuner is slightly worse than my old Zenith HDV420, and so I have to make it look pretty flat before it will decode.


If I had an outdoor antenna I could make use of, I would already have MER numbers.


- Trip


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17832977
> 
> 
> And I didn't see any interference between 28/29/30; they very clearly have gaps between them. (31's signal is AWFUL but I don't think that's anyone else's fault but their own.) I easily decoded all three of them two days ago without moving the antenna.
> 
> - Trip



Trip,


If the signal between channels 28/29/30/31 isn't interference, then what is it (especially 29)? Shouldn't there be signal separation, 'white space', at lower and upper ends of each channel?


Frank


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* /forum/post/17833351
> 
> 
> Trip,
> 
> 
> If the signal between channels 28/29/30/31 isn't interference, then what is it (especially 29)? Shouldn't there be signal separation, 'white space', at lower and upper ends of each channel?
> 
> 
> Frank



The resolution on my analyzer is not that great. (It's a portable unit made for cable installers.) My local adjacents look like that as well but looking at a more expensive analyzer, you can see the gap between them. I suspect the same is true here.


Without moving my antenna for each station, I just checked the MER:


28: 32.3 dB

29: No decode (Multipath)

30: >36 dB

31: 30.8 dB


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

The multipath of 28 & 33 should be the same as they originate from a common antenna and are close in frequency. So if 28's MER is smaller than 33's it would suggest AC interference from 29 into 28. Ultimately, you cannot accurately tell (even with a rooftop antenna) if there is adjacent channel interference unless you shut down the signal of the adjacent channel.


Ithink those MER you posted must be in error. The best TX has MER no higher than 32 dB. So at the Rx, excluding interference but including multipath, man-made noise and tuner/ant mismatch, the MER is usually at the low 20s.


----------



## Trip in VA

33's MER is 31.4 dB.


Of course, like you said, you can't use absolute numbers to tell, either. I know that one of my local stations back at home is putting out an MER of 29 dB at the transmitter, so the number will never get any higher no matter what you do.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

Alright, I just optimized my antenna position to make WNBC-28 look as flat as possible. No further adjustments were made, so noise on VHF or multipath on UHF is not being compensated for. Here's what I have:


WABC-07: 31.1 dB

WPIX-11: No decode.

WNET-13: 25.0 dB

WMBC-18: No decode.

WNYE-24: >36 dB

WASA-25: 26.0 dB

WNBC-28: 31.9 dB

WFME-29: 26.7 dB

WFUT-30: >36 dB

WPXN-31: 31.1 dB

WCBS-33: 32.9 dB

WNJU-36: 31.6 dB

WWOR-38: No decode.

WXTV-40: No decode.

WNYW-44: 29.5 dB

WNJN-51: 27.4 dB


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

I managed to get WCBS to show me >36 dB after much fidgeting, but I can't get anything above 32.4 dB for WNBC, leading me to believe that is the MER they're putting out and it won't get any higher. A perfectly flat signal on WFME won't get me above 29.3 dB.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

Unless the ch 33 Tx MER is higher than that of ch 28 you can assume, on a relative level, interference into 28 from 29 because multipath can be presumed not be a factor when comparing 28 and 33. But as I mentioned earlier, MERs higher than 32 have not been demonstrated at the output of high-power DTV transmitters.


Also, I'm not sure you can assert that the low MER (SNR) of 29 is due to "multipath" alone rather than a combination of multipath and adjacent channel interference from both sides.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/17833617
> 
> 
> Unless the ch 33 Tx MER is higher than that of ch 28 you can assume, on a relative level, interference into 28 from 29 because multipath can be presumed not be a factor when comparing 28 and 33. But as I mentioned earlier, MERs higher than 32 have not been demonstrated at the output of high-power DTV transmitters.



My local Fox station at home has an MER of 36 dB. (EVM is like 1.2 or something.) Confirmed by the transmitter engineer and by the engineer of a competitor who went to see, and that's the one with an adjacent channel. And if I adjust my antenna to point right at the mountain instead of off to the side a bit, I can see >36 dB with my analyzer at my home 79 miles out with the roof antenna.



> Quote:
> Also, I'm not sure you can assert that the low MER (SNR) of 29 is due to "multipath" alone rather than a combination of multipath and adjacent channel interference from both sides.



I don't see any multipath on the WFME signal right now; I've got it as close to perfectly flat as I can. I got my 29 dB with a totally flat signal. I suspect that's what they're putting out at the transmitter.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

about the OTA free TV going paid TV means that the FCC would be helping to create

Monopoly of Paid TV, it seems to me such approach and behavior of FCC may constitute to have sufficient grounds for antitrust laws against the Networks of paid Cable - Direct TV and other satelite providers in collusion with FCC, with unforeseen consequences for FCC.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17832670
> 
> 
> Have you already forgotten how long the waiting list for a Prius was 18 months ago?




I just would have thought that with the state of money now, tv cable would be having hard times & ota tv would be going strong because that is free.


If that did indeed had happened ota would not being going any where. But it seems that because of folks state of mind now, we have the risk of loss of the ota.


----------



## yobiworld

What's the deal with WEBR Ch 17.3 and 17.4 All i see are colored stripes and a black screen.

Also are there any plans to adding MORE Asian programing on DTV IN the NEW YORK AREA?????


Im not talking about cable because i dont have payed service.


Thanks in advance


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17834263
> 
> 
> What's the deal with WEBR Ch 17.3 and 17.4 All i see are colored stripes and a black screen.
> 
> Also are there any plans to adding MORE Asian programing on DTV IN the NEW YORK AREA?????
> 
> 
> Im not talking about cable because i dont have payed service.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance



What kind of Asian programming were you looking for?


The following have full time Asian language programming:


17.1 - Korean

48.2 - Korean

63.2 - Korean

63.3 - Korean

63.5 - Chinese


The following have leased access Asian language programming (check schedule):


25.1 - Japanese

48.1 - Japanese

63.1 - Korean and Chinese


There have been many changes over the last several months. As such, I do not expect the lineup I have observed to remain constant.


Hope this helps. Cheers!


----------



## pantrychef

After dropping KBS World and going black for several weeks, WMBC is now carrying NTDTV on 63.5.


Despite what the programming guide indicates, audio and subtitles are in Chinese.


According to Wikipedia:

_New Tang Dynasty Television (NTDTV) (traditional Chinese: 新唐人電視臺) is a Falun Gong-affiliated[1] Chinese language television broadcaster based in New York City, founded in 2001. The company's stated mission is "to foster mutual understanding between Chinese and Western societies" and promote multiculturalism, peace and compassion._


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17815996
> 
> 
> I know everyone's rushing to delete WASA-LD, but I determined this afternoon that the station has a stat muxer for their two subchannels. The only reason I could see for them to do that and not get a much cheaper static bitrate encoder is if they're planning to add more subchannels.
> 
> 
> So, either they splurged on a stat muxer they don't need, or infomercials and scenes of the city are not the end of the story.
> 
> 
> - Trip



How about WASA (or any station in the NY market) had a programming lineup similar to WNVC, with a smattering of viewpoints from around the world?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/17835330
> 
> 
> How about WASA (or any station in the NY market) had a programming lineup similar to WNVC, with a smattering of viewpoints from around the world?



I would expect that more from WNYE than from WASA-LD. WNVC is non-commercial, as is WNYE. I'm actually surprised that WNYE has not added MHz WorldView on a subchannel.


If anything, I'd expect to see something mirroring KSCI in Los Angeles on WASA-LD.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17836448
> 
> 
> I'm actually surprised that WNYE has not added MHz WorldView on a subchannel.
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Before the transition, WNYE would run regular crawls about them going 720p and adding more sub-channels and as you can see over 6 months later it hasn't happened.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17834174
> 
> 
> about the OTA free TV going paid TV means that the FCC would be helping to create
> 
> Monopoly of Paid TV, it seems to me such approach and behavior of FCC may constitute to have sufficient grounds for antitrust laws against the Networks of paid Cable - Direct TV and other satelite providers in collusion with FCC, with unforeseen consequences for FCC.



what is this all about, can't remove broadcast tv. Besides the main tv stations are raking enough money in from ads and fox just got a bundle from time warner for thier stations, so sick of the money hungery world it's become.


----------



## kickass69

Actually, the major broadcast networks have said that because of new technologies with people watching shows online through Hulu, people using DVRs and less people watching OTA and watching more with Cable/Satellite....there revenue has declined to the point where what Fox did will become the norm to make up for that supposed lost advertising revenue from lost OTA viewership. Only helps the FCC take away OTA altogether for mobile broadband all the more.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/17835149
> 
> 
> What kind of Asian programming were you looking for?
> 
> 
> The following have full time Asian language programming:
> 
> 
> 17.1 - Korean
> 
> 48.2 - Korean
> 
> 63.2 - Korean
> 
> 63.3 - Korean
> 
> 63.5 - Chinese
> 
> 
> The following have leased access Asian language programming (check schedule):
> 
> 
> 25.1 - Japanese
> 
> 48.1 - Japanese
> 
> 63.1 - Korean and Chinese
> 
> 
> There have been many changes over the last several months. As such, I do not expect the lineup I have observed to remain constant.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps. Cheers!



I was expecting New York to be like LA because LA has a crap load of Asian programing. SBS which im dying for them to bring over and Nhk world


Any way I get all those channels except 48.1 48.2 in fact i never even seen those channel what are the call letters?








Thanks in advance


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/17837289
> 
> 
> Actually, the major broadcast networks have said that because of new technologies with people watching shows online through Hulu, people using DVRs and less people watching OTA and watching more with Cable/Satellite....there revenue has declined to the point where what Fox did will become the norm to make up for that supposed lost advertising revenue from lost OTA viewership. Only helps the FCC take away OTA altogether for mobile broadband all the more.



what revenue, it's broadcast tv. The stations are full of ads so that is load of crap. It's just more hungery money way to rip people off. Nothing on fox is worth watching anyway.


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17838033
> 
> 
> I was expecting New York to be like LA because LA has a crap load of Asian programing. SBS which im dying for them to bring over and Nhk world
> 
> 
> Any way I get all those channels except 48.1 48.2 in fact i never even seen those channel what are the call letters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance



Not sure what network is SBS.


NY will get as many Asian OTA channels as LA when the demographics are similar. Since OTA channels are supported solely from ads aired, sponsors will most likely support programs that let their message get to customers.


As I said, there have been many changes recently:


48.3 - No longer listed. Formerly FUN TV (Japanese Anime)

48.2 - Arirang TV (News and views with ROK viewpoint)

Formerly CCTV-9 (News and views from PRC viewpoint)

Formerly WTBY 54.1 (Christian)


63.3 - CGN-TV (formerly MBC America)

63.5 - NTDTV (formerly KBS World)


Channel 48 is WRNN-DT. They are currently broadcast from Upstate NY and reach some viewers in lower Westchester and North Jersey. According to FCC records, they are in the process of starting relay stations to offer coverage in the NYC area.


As for NHK, these foreign broadcasters will land here either via agreement with PBS or their Information Ministry budget.


Hope this helps!


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17836448
> 
> 
> I would expect that more from WNYE than from WASA-LD. WNVC is non-commercial, as is WNYE. I'm actually surprised that WNYE has not added MHz WorldView on a subchannel.
> 
> 
> If anything, I'd expect to see something mirroring KSCI in Los Angeles on WASA-LD.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well it appears from KSCI that they have both CGNTV and MBC America instead of one over the other on WMBC.


While it helps to be non-commercial, I would not be surprised if the respective government is subsidizing the programming on 48.2 (formerly PRC, now ROK)...


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/17836619
> 
> 
> Before the transition, WNYE would run regular crawls about them going 720p and adding more sub-channels and as you can see over 6 months later it hasn't happened.



It appears WNYE wants to share as much locally produced content over this outlet. The station is currently operated by the NYC media group, where the Wikipedia entry is an interesting read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NYC_Media_Group 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arick_Wierson 


I remember when those HD crawls were run Arick Wierson was still head. Since his departure, it would seem that HD may not be in the cards for the immediate future. But then what do I know.


Hope this helps. Cheers!


----------



## SemiChemE

I finally got around to re-arranging my antenna set up here in Poughkeepsie. I now have the following three attic-mounted antennas:

Antennas direct C4 (UHF) - Aimed North toward Albany

Winegard YA-1713 (VHF-hi) - Aimed South toward NYC

Taco antenna (VHF) - Aimed North toward Albany
The VHF and UHF antennas are combined in a CM7777 pre-amp. I tested three configurations consisting of each VHF antenna connected separately and both connected via a 50/50 splitter. The results are as follows:


*UHF (not affected by VHF connections):
*


Callsgn-RFSignal (%)Signal Range (%)CommentsWRNN-487050-85consistent, strong signalWTBY-276050-70consistent, strong signalWTEN-266555-70consistent, strong signalWCWN-4300(see below)WMHT-348070-90Best SignalWNJU-36200-40Fluctuates, drop outs every 1-5 min.W42AE (analog)Good Picture, no snow

*VHF (NYC-only):*


Callsgn-RFSignal (%)Signal Range (%)CommentsWRGB-600No SignalWXXA-700No SignalWNYT-121515-30Frequent drop outs (WABC-72020-30Consistent signal, few drop outs (>10 min)WPIX-115535-65Few drop outs (>10 min)WNET-134535-55Few drop outs (>10 min)
*VHF (Albany-only):*


Callsgn-RFSignal (%)Signal Range (%)CommentsWRGB-6150-20Severe Pixellation, no audioWXXA-700No SignalWNYT-124030-45Some Drop Outs (2-10 min)WABC-700No SignalWPIX-1100No SignalWNET-1300No Signal
*VHF (NYC and Albany Combined):
*

Callsgn-RFSignal (%)Signal Range (%)CommentsWRGB-6100-20Severe Pixellation, no audioWXXA-700No SignalWNYT-123020-35Some Drop Outs (2-10 min)WABC-700No SignalWPIX-115035-65Few drop outs (>10 min)WNET-133530-40Some drop outs (5-10 min)

Note that I used to receive WCWN-43 at a weak, but watchable 30%, however around Thanksgiving the signal dropped to about 20% making it mostly unwatchable. This last week the signal completely disappeared regardless of how I position the UHF antenna.


For comparison, my TVFool profile is here:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c201364e85e360 


Finally, any suggestions about how to connect these various antennas would be appreciated. My current plan is to use an A-B switch so that I can easily switch between the Albany-only and NY-only configurations, but it would be nice not to need a switch. I doubt a jointenna would work, since I'm trying to combine a channel 12 on one antenna with 11 and 13 on the other and I understand that the Jointenna causes problems with adjacent channels. Also, I'm hoping WRGB will become watchable if the FCC ever grants their request for a power boost, so I'd want any solution to remain compatible with channel 6.


Would using a separate pre-amp for each antenna and then combining the two amplified signals with a splitter work? I would think that would do a little better than the combined test from above. Since the antennas are in the attic, it shouldn't be a problem to get power for both pre-amps and combine the signals after the power insertion. Am I overlooking anything? In this case, I might need a Channel 7 jointenna to filter out any residual signal from WXXA-7 that would interfere with WABC-7.


(Note, I'm cross-posting on the Albany and NYC forums, since this is relevant to both)


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/17839457
> 
> 
> Not sure what network is SBS.
> 
> 
> NY will get as many Asian OTA channels as LA when the demographics are similar. Since OTA channels are supported solely from ads aired, sponsors will most likely support programs that let their message get to customers.
> 
> 
> As I said, there have been many changes recently:
> 
> 
> 48.3 - No longer listed. Formerly FUN TV (Japanese Anime)
> 
> 48.2 - Arirang TV (News and views with ROK viewpoint)
> 
> Formerly CCTV-9 (News and views from PRC viewpoint)
> 
> Formerly WTBY 54.1 (Christian)
> 
> 
> 63.3 - CGN-TV (formerly MBC America)
> 
> 63.5 - NTDTV (formerly KBS World)
> 
> 
> Channel 48 is WRNN-DT. They are currently broadcast from Upstate NY and reach some viewers in lower Westchester and North Jersey. According to FCC records, they are in the process of starting relay stations to offer coverage in the NYC area.
> 
> 
> As for NHK, these foreign broadcasters will land here either via agreement with PBS or their Information Ministry budget.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!



SBS Is Korean channel they air in LA and South Korea


demographics? does CHINA town mean nothing to these people. LOL Anyway

To bad im dying to see Arirang TV i love that channel and hopefully NHK, world lands here soon.


Frankly speaking the only highlight to having DTV in NEW YORK is the Asian programming and free service. Other then that DTV is in New York is filled with paid programming and religious programming.

All those channels yet hardly any of them are being put good use.

Times like this i wish i lived in LA where all the good programing is.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/17839534
> 
> 
> Well it appears from KSCI that they have both CGNTV and MBC America instead of one over the other on WMBC.
> 
> 
> While it helps to be non-commercial, I would not be surprised if the respective government is subsidizing the programming on 48.2 (formerly PRC, now ROK)...



Commercial stations like WASA-LD are very unlikely to carry the non-commercial English-language foreign programming services that the MHz stations carry.


I suspect there is money to be made from airing Arirang, whereas France24 in English is likely not a big money maker.


- Trip


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/17841554
> 
> 
> I finally got around to re-arranging my antenna set up here in Poughkeepsie. I now have the following three attic-mounted antennas:
> 
> Antennas direct C4 (UHF) - Aimed North toward Albany
> 
> Winegard YA-1713 (VHF-hi) - Aimed South toward NYC
> 
> Taco antenna (VHF) - Aimed North toward Albany
> The VHF and UHF antennas are combined in a CM7777 pre-amp. I tested three configurations consisting of each VHF antenna connected separately and both connected via a 50/50 splitter. The results are as follows:
> 
> 
> *UHF (not affected by VHF connections):
> *
> 
> 
> Callsgn-RFSignal (%)Signal Range (%)CommentsWRNN-487050-85consistent, strong signalWTBY-276050-70consistent, strong signalWTEN-266555-70consistent, strong signalWCWN-4300(see below)WMHT-348070-90Best SignalWNJU-36200-40Fluctuates, drop outs every 1-5 min.W42AE (analog)Good Picture, no snow
> 
> *VHF (NYC-only):*
> 
> 
> Callsgn-RFSignal (%)Signal Range (%)CommentsWRGB-600No SignalWXXA-700No SignalWNYT-121515-30Frequent drop outs (WABC-72020-30Consistent signal, few drop outs (>10 min)WPIX-115535-65Few drop outs (>10 min)WNET-134535-55Few drop outs (>10 min)
> *VHF (Albany-only):*
> 
> 
> Callsgn-RFSignal (%)Signal Range (%)CommentsWRGB-6150-20Severe Pixellation, no audioWXXA-700No SignalWNYT-124030-45Some Drop Outs (2-10 min)WABC-700No SignalWPIX-1100No SignalWNET-1300No Signal
> *VHF (NYC and Albany Combined):
> *
> 
> Callsgn-RFSignal (%)Signal Range (%)CommentsWRGB-6100-20Severe Pixellation, no audioWXXA-700No SignalWNYT-123020-35Some Drop Outs (2-10 min)WABC-700No SignalWPIX-115035-65Few drop outs (>10 min)WNET-133530-40Some drop outs (5-10 min)
> 
> Note that I used to receive WCWN-43 at a weak, but watchable 30%, however around Thanksgiving the signal dropped to about 20% making it mostly unwatchable. This last week the signal completely disappeared regardless of how I position the UHF antenna.
> 
> 
> For comparison, my TVFool profile is here:
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c201364e85e360
> 
> 
> Finally, any suggestions about how to connect these various antennas would be appreciated. My current plan is to use an A-B switch so that I can easily switch between the Albany-only and NY-only configurations, but it would be nice not to need a switch. I doubt a jointenna would work, since I'm trying to combine a channel 12 on one antenna with 11 and 13 on the other and I understand that the Jointenna causes problems with adjacent channels. Also, I'm hoping WRGB will become watchable if the FCC ever grants their request for a power boost, so I'd want any solution to remain compatible with channel 6.
> 
> 
> Would using a separate pre-amp for each antenna and then combining the two amplified signals with a splitter work? I would think that would do a little better than the combined test from above. Since the antennas are in the attic, it shouldn't be a problem to get power for both pre-amps and combine the signals after the power insertion. Am I overlooking anything? In this case, I might need a Channel 7 jointenna to filter out any residual signal from WXXA-7 that would interfere with WABC-7.
> 
> 
> (Note, I'm cross-posting on the Albany and NYC forums, since this is relevant to both)



The 2 antennas being combined before the amp will weaken the signal because they will act as a load to each other. This can be solved by getting a single port indoor distribution amp like from K mart or a channel master amp 3042. You will need to run an ac extension cord to power it. I would try that first.


I had found on the web a few years ago a single channel trap. The tv cable used to use them a lot when hbo was on channel 2 to block out the hbo on ch 2 unless you paid for it.


A friend of mine was setting up an antenna 7 to 10 years ago like yours. Each antenna alone was good. But when hooked together 13 was messed up. He ordered a 13 trap & put it on the antenna that has not intended to get 13. After he put the trap in 13 was great. It seemed like the source was some thing like "microwave " of some thing. I do not remember now. But I did find it on the web.


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/17841554
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, any suggestions about how to connect these various antennas would be appreciated. My current plan is to use an A-B switch so that I can easily switch between the Albany-only and NY-only configurations, but it would be nice not to need a switch. I doubt a jointenna would work, since I'm trying to combine a channel 12 on one antenna with 11 and 13 on the other and I understand that the Jointenna causes problems with adjacent channels. Also, I'm hoping WRGB will become watchable if the FCC ever grants their request for a power boost, so I'd want any solution to remain compatible with channel 6.
> 
> 
> Would using a separate pre-amp for each antenna and then combining the two amplified signals with a splitter work? I would think that would do a little better than the combined test from above. Since the antennas are in the attic, it shouldn't be a problem to get power for both pre-amps and combine the signals after the power insertion. Am I overlooking anything? In this case, I might need a Channel 7 jointenna to filter out any residual signal from WXXA-7 that would interfere with WABC-7.
> 
> 
> (Note, I'm cross-posting on the Albany and NYC forums, since this is relevant to both)




See my post 2860 on the Philadelphia OTA thread. Note that it is important that the coax feeds from each antenna to the combiner be the same length to avoid clashing out of phase signals. Also, my amplifiers are located after antennas are combined and then split for upstairs and downstairs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post17437911 


My location between NYC and Phily may be better for a favorable outcome, but combining two antennas works well for me. Good luck!


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## George Molnar

Quote:

Originally Posted by *FrankH3rd* 
See my post 2860 on the Philadelphia OTA thread. Note that it is important that the coax feeds from each antenna to the combiner be the same length to avoid clashing out of phase signals. Also, my amplifiers are located after antennas are combined and then split for upstairs and downstairs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post17437911 


My location between NYC and Phily may be better for a favorable outcome, but combining two antennas works well for me. Good luck!


Frank

WA2ISK
Frank, that works if antennas are aimed in the same direction. But, if aimed in different directions one antenna can receive a reflection whose path length causes destructive interference. Sadly, even professional installers merge together two antennas aimed in different directions resulting in reflection cancellations. This is especially bad if the reflections are dynamic in nature, or obscured or enhanced by vegetation. Using an A/B switch is the easiest practical solution. Alternately, viewers can install filter traps on the "wrong" antenna to eliminate destructive reflections, although much more costly.

 

Reflections into Receive Antenna.pdf 14.8408203125k . file


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/17845190
> 
> 
> Frank, that works if antennas are aimed in the same direction. But, if aimed in different directions one antenna can receive a reflection whose path length causes destructive interference. Sadly, even professional installers merge together two antennas aimed in different directions resulting in reflection cancellations. This is especially bad if the reflections are dynamic in nature, or obscured or enhanced by vegetation. Using an A/B switch is the easiest practical solution. Alternately, viewers can install filter traps on the "wrong" antenna to eliminate destructive reflections, although much more costly.



one more option, if your TVs have 2 or more aux inputs, is to add a second dtv tuner for the other antenna. Then you can select the port for the 2nd tuner with the remote for the other antenna & do not have to get up out of your chair like you would the switch the a/b switch to change antennas


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17851307
> 
> 
> one more option, if your TVs have 2 or more aux inputs, is to add a second dtv tuner for the other antenna. Then you can select the port for the 2nd tuner with the remote for the other antenna & do not have to get up out of your chair like you would the switch the a/b switch to change antennas



I have two antennas feeding my TV, one via my PALVR that in turn feeds the signal to the TV via HDMI the other antenna input goes directly to the TV via COAX. I just use the remote to switch.


So it definitely can be done many ways other than an A/B switch. Just depends on the video setup you have.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/17845190
> 
> 
> Frank, that works if antennas are aimed in the same direction. But, if aimed in different directions one antenna can receive a reflection whose path length causes destructive interference. Sadly, even professional installers merge together two antennas aimed in different directions resulting in reflection cancellations. This is especially bad if the reflections are dynamic in nature, or obscured or enhanced by vegetation. Using an A/B switch is the easiest practical solution. Alternately, viewers can install filter traps on the "wrong" antenna to eliminate destructive reflections, although much more costly.




also you can try this.


Since your antennas are in the attic, is to take a sheet of card board & cover one side of it with aluminum foil. Put the card board between the 2 antennas. That will block or weaken the signal getting to the wrong antenna. But I am not sure about how far the antenna should be from the card board. This is because the aluminum foil along with blocking the signal, it may reflect the signal into you want to the right antenna. If the signal is in phase it will add to your signal. If it is out of phase will mess it up. The good thing to this task is, it will not cost much. The bad part is you may bump you head on the roof. if the attic does not have a floor,Take care & do not miss the Ceiling Joist & fall though.


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17853829
> 
> 
> also you can try this.
> 
> 
> Since your antennas are in the attic, is to take a sheet of card board & cover one side of it with aluminum foil. Put the card board between the 2 antennas. That will block or weaken the signal getting to the wrong antenna. But I am not sure about how far the antenna should be from the card board. This is because the aluminum foil along with blocking the signal, it may reflect the signal into you want to the right antenna. If the signal is in phase it will add to your signal. If it is out of phase will mess it up. The good thing to this task is, it will not cost much. The bad part is you may bump you head on the roof. if the attic does not have a floor,Take care & do not miss the Ceiling Joist & fall though.



Actually, the attic has plenty of space and a full floor, so it's not a problem to go up there and try things out. There would even be room for more vertical separation if not for a nearby A/C unit. I have tried other locations for the YA-1713 antenna including up to 20 feet away, but the current location appears to be a sweet spot for both antennas.


Finally, I find the interaction between the two antenna's quite interesting. Without the Taco antenna, I get the three major NYC VHFchannels on the YA-1713, but none of the Albany stations. When I add the Taco antenna pointed at Albany to the same mast, but without connecting it, I still receive the NYC stations at the same level, but I also get a weak WNYT-12. Presumably, this means the Taco is somehow either reflecting or retransmitting the WNYT-12 signal into the YA-1713. I'm a bit surprised that this doesn't degrade WABC-7, since I expect the same thing to happen with WXXA-7, but WABC-7 appears to be the same with and without the Taco.


----------



## jpru34

Anyone have any contacts there? I have been trying to reach them to get an update on the status of the work they are doing on their antennas but have not had much luck. By way of reminder, they stated that they were doing major work on their antennas but that they expected it to be done by January 1, 2010.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/17855474
> 
> 
> Actually, the attic has plenty of space and a full floor, so it's not a problem to go up there and try things out. There would even be room for more vertical separation if not for a nearby A/C unit. I have tried other locations for the YA-1713 antenna including up to 20 feet away, but the current location appears to be a sweet spot for both antennas.
> 
> 
> Finally, I find the interaction between the two antenna's quite interesting. Without the Taco antenna, I get the three major NYC VHFchannels on the YA-1713, but none of the Albany stations. When I add the Taco antenna pointed at Albany to the same mast, but without connecting it, I still receive the NYC stations at the same level, but I also get a weak WNYT-12. Presumably, this means the Taco is somehow either reflecting or retransmitting the WNYT-12 signal into the YA-1713. I'm a bit surprised that this doesn't degrade WABC-7, since I expect the same thing to happen with WXXA-7, but WABC-7 appears to be the same with and without the Taco.




I am sorry, I should have given more detail of that I had in mind.


I had in mind of the 2 antennas being separated horizontal with the aluminam card board in between the 2.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/17863124
> 
> 
> I am sorry, I should have given more detail of that I had in mind.
> 
> 
> I had in mind of the 2 antennas being separated horizontal with the aluminam card board in between the 2.


*Adjacent antennas definitely interact with each other, and one rule of thumb is to separate them by "several wavelengths." That is open to interpretation, but for comparisons, one wavelength at ch.7 is 68", at ch.13 is 55", at ch.14 is 25", and at ch.51 is 17".)


Think of your antennas like binoculars. Ideally, the Albany one would see only Albany signals, and the NYC one would see only NYC signals.


But say a NYC signal travels beyond your location and strikes a reflector which bounces it back into your Albany antenna. Such a reflection can cause destructive interference, and knowing exactly where to place any tin foil/cardboard to block it would be pretty near impossible.*


----------



## AloEuro

" 63.3 - CGN-TV (formerly MBC America) " ChristianGlobalNetwork formerly ch.46 Analog

broadcasts solid, reliable News on Korean 17-1 LD.

the 17-2 has korean programs many with English subt..some are serials others are quality programs

Also ADD on Scan gives strong 3-1 704x480i at 30Hz, signal Normal steady 40 no

fluctuation


----------



## DTVintermods

*Antennas...*

This link should be helpful: http://www.osun.org/antenna+tv+reception-pdf.html


----------



## yobiworld

Im very curious as to what WASA my turn into but hopefully it dont turn into another

religious channel. We have enough of those in the New york area

*DTVintermods* Thank you for the link

*AloEuro* wish i had 3.1 channel you must have better signal


----------



## Trip in VA

Unless you like religion, there's nothing on WBQM-LD 3 worth watching. It's just Cornerstone religion from WPCB in Pittsburgh.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17865660
> 
> 
> Unless you like religion, there's nothing on WBQM-LD 3 worth watching. It's just Cornerstone religion from WPCB in Pittsburgh.
> 
> 
> - Trip



jAY lENO SHOW IS over what a shame. Feb


----------



## jpru34

Appears maintenance work is over


----------



## Trip in VA

As I posted in the Allotment thread, WNJB filed for a power increase last night and submitted an interference agreement. Here are the terms:


WNJB-8 will increase power immediately from 17.9 kW to 21.7 kW, then upon receipt of new equipment, will further increase to 40.8 kW.


WABC-7 will increase power immediately from 11 kW to 17 kW, then upon resolving other interference concerns, will further increase to 34 kW.


WGAL-8 (Lancaster PA) will increase power eventually from 14.1 kW to 32.2 kW.


We'll see what the FCC has to say.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/17762273
> 
> 
> He was very friendly and told me that they are in the midst of "switching buildings" and currently are NOT broadcasting at full strength as a result. However, he said that by New Year's at the latest, ION will be broadcasting at full strength stronger than before. Great news for my children as they are missing watching Qubo.



I'm currently out of town and just hope that when I return, that I'll be able to receive 31. From the above, "...New Year's at the latest..."


The "switching buildings" scenario still makes no sense to me. The current location - the ESB is the same as what had been promised for last August -

high up on the ESB's Antenna Mast. What's with "switching buildings"?


I've tried to contact the station to get some answers - no response.


Hey guys, you're out of bankruptcy, spend some money, fix your signal as

you had promised - and be responsive to your audience, as small as it is!


So many viewers assume that things have been fixed because all of a sudden they receive a higher meter reading, when in reality - it's just an atmospheric variance.


I look forward to judge for myself on my return. Fingers are crossed.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17879151
> 
> 
> I'm currently out of town and just hope that when I return, that I'll be able to receive 31. From the above, "...New Year's at the latest..."
> 
> 
> The "switching buildings" scenario still makes no sense to me. The current location - the ESB is the same as what had been promised for last August -
> 
> high up on the ESB's Antenna Mast. What's with "switching buildings"?
> 
> 
> I've tried to contact the station to get some answers - no response.
> 
> 
> Hey guys, you're out of bankruptcy, spend some money, fix your signal as
> 
> you had promised - and be responsive to your audience, as small as it is!
> 
> 
> So many viewers assume that things have been fixed because all of a sudden they receive a higher meter reading, when in reality - it's just an atmospheric variance.
> 
> 
> I look forward to judge for myself on my return. Fingers are crossed.



I believe that increase in their power and staying at the present antenna location, too low on the face of ESB, will not help much. They need to get higher and eliminate the shielding to their signal by the ESB walls. As I mentioned earlier, their best hope for more eyeballs is go higher on the combiner antenna even if at a lower power.


----------



## Trip in VA

I definitely thought WPXN's signal was the worst of the full-service stations I could reasonably expect to receive while I was in the area. In fact, I think WASA-LD was an easier catch.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

But, if you look at the station's filing to move up to the CBS Combiner's location, it clearly shows not one, but two side mounted antennas at that location.


It's all very strange.


Would 31 join the Combiner and/or replace the Combiner with 2 antennas?


No communication from anyone.


----------



## DTVintermods

There's also adjacent channel interference between WFUT30 and WPXN-31 clearly evident in the spectrum plots you took


----------



## reddice

Still can't get channel 31. Some days it can be very pixelated but most of the time it is just a black screen. I knew nothing would happen January 1st.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/17880267
> 
> 
> There's also adjacent channel interference between WFUT30 and WPXN-31 clearly evident in the spectrum plots you took




That was Trip.


But thank you for putting me in such good company!


----------



## Trip in VA

No, I'm pretty sure it was just lousy signal. I had no problems dealing with 28/29/30, nor with 24/25, nor with 39 barely viewable between 38 and 40 once I managed to get the strength up to a decodable level.


As long as the mask filter is properly functional, the entire signal should be constrained within the 6 MHz allotted. My analyzer's resolution is not great enough to show the gaps.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17880201
> 
> 
> But, if you look at the station's filing to move up to the CBS Combiner's location, it clearly shows not one, but two side mounted antennas at that location.
> 
> 
> It's all very strange.
> 
> 
> Would 31 join the Combiner and/or replace the Combiner with 2 antennas?
> 
> 
> No communication from anyone.



The the second antenna is WNYE NTSC-24. That's why the WCBS antenna had to install its back fill antenna lower.


31 could join the WCBS omni antenna if they reduce the power enough to protect CC in CT.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/17880317
> 
> 
> 31 could join the WCBS omni antenna if they reduce the power enough to protect CC in CT.



I bet they'd have a better signal even at reduced power if they did this.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17880201
> 
> 
> But, if you look at the station's filing to move up to the CBS Combiner's location, it clearly shows not one, but two side mounted antennas at that location.
> 
> 
> It's all very strange.
> 
> 
> Would 31 join the Combiner and/or replace the Combiner with 2 antennas?
> 
> 
> No communication from anyone.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17880309
> 
> 
> No, I'm pretty sure it was just lousy signal. I had no problems dealing with 28/29/30, nor with 24/25, nor with 39 barely viewable between 38 and 40 once I managed to get the strength up to a decodable level.
> 
> 
> As long as the mask filter is properly functional, the entire signal should be constrained within the 6 MHz allotted. My analyzer's resolution is not great enough to show the gaps.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Not so.

Even if the mask filter is as prescribed there would be 3 sources of adjacent channel interference:

a. Because the transmission of the two channels are not from a common antenna, their signal ratio at the Rx is not fixed and can exceed the FCC protection ratio.

b. There is always cross modulation between adjacent channels regardless of the mask filter.

c. The mask filter allows app -34dB of the main signal into adjacent channels


----------



## SnellKrell

WPXN's rendering of its proposed installation at 397 m (HAAT) clearly shows two side mounted antennas. From the street looking at the ESB's Antenna Mast, WCBS's side mounted antenna is clearly visible mounted on the northwest. There is no additional side mounted hardware.


Do you mean that WNYE analogue 25's antenna was built as part of the mast and not side mounted?


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17880383
> 
> 
> WPXN's rendering of its proposed installation at 397 m (HAAT) clearly shows two side mounted antennas. From the street looking at the ESB's Antenna Mast, WCBS's side mounted antenna is clearly visible mounted on the northwest. There is no additional side mounted hardware.
> 
> 
> Do you mean that WNYE analogue 25's antenna was built as part of the mast and not side mounted?



WNYE is side-mounted on the mast. Maybe WPXN plans is to side-mount in that area, especially after WNYE analog antenna is removed. I think WNYE DTV is now on 4T^2 (or in Brooklyn?)


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, WNYE digital is now located at 4TS.


So, is your thought that WPXN would join the WCBS Combiner and add another side mount. Would it be for itself (it's signal is stated to be directional for that location)

or would the station join a newly constituted Combiner using both side mounts.


The other stations have not requested that, as of yet.


Also, WPXN had told the Commission that its 397 m location would have been accomplished by this past August.


Again, not making much sense to me.


Bottom line, I still cannot receive the station. I did before they started using the lower, less desirable antenna location.


----------



## yobiworld

Well sometime this week WEBR Channel 17.4 *finally* started playing Korean music;the good kind.


----------



## DTVintermods

*SnellKrell:* So, is your thought that WPXN would join the WCBS Combiner and add another side mount. Would it be for itself (it's signal is stated to be directional for that location) or would the station join a newly constituted Combiner using both side mounts.

*DTVintermods:*Once the WNYE analog antenna is removed then two options become available:

a. CBS moves its back fill antenna to that level and WPXN goes on the combiner omnidirectional antenna albeit at a lower power.

b. WPXN move its own directional antenna to where WNYE's old analog antenna is now. That may be problematic for WXPN need to reduce signal toward CT.

All considered, my view is that a. above is win-win for all


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17879122
> 
> 
> As I posted in the Allotment thread, WNJB filed for a power increase last night and submitted an interference agreement. Here are the terms:
> 
> 
> WNJB-8 will increase power immediately from 17.9 kW to 21.7 kW, then upon receipt of new equipment, will further increase to 40.8 kW.
> 
> 
> WABC-7 will increase power immediately from 11 kW to 17 kW, then upon resolving other interference concerns, will further increase to 34 kW.
> 
> 
> WGAL-8 (Lancaster PA) will increase power eventually from 14.1 kW to 32.2 kW.
> 
> 
> We'll see what the FCC has to say.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I'll be interested to see what the FCC has to say. Here in Poughkeepsie, I'm pretty sure that interference from WABC is already preventing me from getting WXXA from Albany (I got a small signal on WXXA, until WABC boosted their power the first time. Now, I only receive WABC and nothing from WXXA).


----------



## SnellKrell

When did WABC boost its power the first time?


----------



## AloEuro

Well, I was too kind to 3-1, I thought that perhaps they may have boosted their power, but it ain't so, the box puts it to memory then the same ol' same old story 0-15 0-15, the same I have on another conv.box giving LI 55-1 and NJ 50/52 to memory and 0signal.

!7-4 gives Korean and English music, but it is too expensive -the TV consumes more than 100W per hour.

ION31-31-3 seems to be giving some Charles Bronson - Death Wish movies, alo


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17880969
> 
> 
> When did WABC boost its power the first time?



Perhaps I'm mistaken, I had thought WABC boosted their power shortly after the DTV transition. Nevertheless, prior to the transition I could receive WXXA, however, since WABC switched to 7, I have only been able to receive WABC.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC as of 6/29 filed to raise its digital power from 11.69kW ERP to 27.0 kW.


And that request is yet to be approved.


The current request is for an intermediate step up to 17.0kW then ultimately to

34.0kw.


The station should have stayed on UHF, but ABC for more than 60 years has had an idiotic "fixation" to be on Channel 7.


----------



## dagger666

When will channel 11 do something about their single. It has always been the weakest station and comes and goes depending on the wind, kind of the Marry Poppins of TV stations. Yeah 31 has been good but now it's failing a lot and always around the time i want to watch it, Thursday nights during the 2 hours of NCIS.


----------



## Trip in VA

I've heard that 11 is working on it.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

To put the plight of the Hi-V channels in perspective consider these:

For analog TV the maximum power for UHF station was 5,000kW and for Hi-VHF 316kW. That is, for comparable reception Hi-Vs were at -12dB relative to UHFs.

For digital TV, the maximum power allowed UHF stations is 1,000kW. Since the laws of physics regarding propagation have not changed it follows that Hi-Vs should be allowed 63kW (-12db) to provide comparable service with 1,000kW UHFs.

In NYC, WNJU authorized power is 650kW. So the comparable power for WABC should be 41kW.

WABC is now transmitting at app 1/4 of what it needs to be, courtesy of the FCC.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC's own fault for fighting for and insisting upon retaining Channel 7.


I really think the audience would have been served better by maintaining Channel 45.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/17863639
> 
> *Adjacent antennas definitely interact with each other, and one rule of thumb is to separate them by "several wavelengths." That is open to interpretation, but for comparisons, one wavelength at ch.7 is 68", at ch.13 is 55", at ch.14 is 25", and at ch.51 is 17".)
> 
> 
> Think of your antennas like binoculars. Ideally, the Albany one would see only Albany signals, and the NYC one would see only NYC signals.
> 
> 
> But say a NYC signal travels beyond your location and strikes a reflector which bounces it back into your Albany antenna. Such a reflection can cause destructive interference, and knowing exactly where to place any tin foil/cardboard to block it would be pretty near impossible.*



You misunderstood.


The aluminum is to block the WABC ch 7 direct signals from the ESB from going into the back of the antenna facing Albany. What I mean is that the direct signal from WABC from also hitting the aluminum foil & reelecting into the antenna facing the ESB but out of phase with the direct signal. From what I have read about antennas the reflector is to be .2 wave length away on a yagi. On a UHF the corner reflector is to be .25 wave length away.


----------



## AloEuro

In case your converter box like iNet / Tivax type has - 9pin Father PC port- read Manual before you use it, it says that it is only for software upgrade, Never ever connect it to PC hardware, unless you want your box to be burned inside - good for Sanitation dept.

fortunately I had 2.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/17886053
> 
> 
> When will channel 11 do something about their single. It has always been the weakest station and comes and goes depending on the wind, kind of the Marry Poppins of TV stations. Yeah 31 has been good but now it's failing a lot and always around the time i want to watch it, Thursday nights during the 2 hours of NCIS.


*PIX,ABC* needs to fix there signal. I think there's the weakest of the 5


----------



## FrankH3rd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/17845190
> 
> 
> Frank, that works if antennas are aimed in the same direction. But, if aimed in different directions one antenna can receive a reflection whose path length causes destructive interference. Sadly, even professional installers merge together two antennas aimed in different directions resulting in reflection cancellations. This is especially bad if the reflections are dynamic in nature, or obscured or enhanced by vegetation. Using an A/B switch is the easiest practical solution. Alternately, viewers can install filter traps on the "wrong" antenna to eliminate destructive reflections, although much more costly.



George,


Here is a little more detail to my story not mentioned in my Oct 28 post:


Before I began my two antenna project, I was initially so convinced that combining the two antennas (one pointed at NYC, the other at Phily) would not work that I tried to find if anyone sold a remote A/B switch to place in my attic, and that could be controlled downstairs in my house. I was not able to find any, so I ended up running the coax feeds from the two antennas into the rear wall of the bedroom closet that I access the attic from. Here I inserted a manual A/B switch, the output connected to a third coax back up to the attic, where it is spilt to feed the upstairs and downstairs. This worked just fine for all stations in both cities, but not very convenient if I wanted to switch between cities on TV's elsewhere in the house (but better than climbing up into the attic each time).


So this was when I replaced the A/B switch in the closet with a combiner/splitter. As I noted in the Oct 28 post, this worked pretty good for most stations in both cities, but not always all the time. It was at this point that someone on this website recommened that I make sure the feed lengths from both antennas to the combiner were the same length. I swaped one of the cables with a longer one so it matched the coax from the other antenna. The outcome was solid, strong, and consistent reception from all stations from both cities (except for ION for known reasons; both cities are on the same channel and I am equidistant between them).


So in this case I guess I just lucked out. Sounds like I got incorrect advice, but incorrect advice that seems to work in my case.


My personal observation working with antenna and feeds over the years is that it is not an exact science, and can hold surprises. Arrangements that should theorectically work sometimes don't, and arrangements that theorectically shouldn't, sometimes do.. The antennas are obeying the laws of physics, we just don't always understand what is going on. They can be very humbling. So it doesn't hurt to experiment, you never know.


Regards,


Frank

WA2ISK


----------



## yobiworld

what happened to channel 17.3 every time i dial the channel it goes to 17.4 instead??


----------



## LenL

I don't know the reason but all weekend the major stations and minor ones were pretty much coming in at 90 to 100 signal. This includes VHF stations.


I have not checked it out today.


----------



## nycdigital09

Does anybody else having a problem with channel 68.1 since they went HD it seems the signal sort of skips or blanks out each 2 or 3 seconds, its very hard to watch a movie or sports event. Is anybody else experience this? If it is the station then they should be made aware, they're gonna show World Cup matches on this station during the summer. Soccer's most prestigious tournament


----------



## aravenel

Hi all,


Apologies if this has been answered before, but I am debating canceling my TWC service and moving to OTA broadcast since I don't watch that much TV anymore.


I am a total newbie at this, so I have a couple of questions that I wanted to see if I could get answered:

What kind of antenna is required? I don't have access to the roof of my building, so something small and discreet that I can use inside is required, but I'm a bit confused as to whether NYC broadcasts are on UHF, VHF, or both.
I live in the garden level of a brownstone in Park Slope, Brooklyn. I know that being low down in a stone building like this would affect reception, but given that the broadcast is very closeby (Empire State Building, correct?), am I likely to be able to get a decent signal given that I don't have access to the roof?


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17897485
> 
> 
> what happened to channel 17.3 every time i dial the channel it goes to 17.4 instead??



Apparently, you do not have ch.17 in conv.box memory, punch in the number it puts you to nearest 1up


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aravenel* /forum/post/17901091
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Apologies if this has been answered before, but I am debating canceling my TWC service and moving to OTA broadcast since I don't watch that much TV anymore.
> 
> 
> I am a total newbie at this, so I have a couple of questions that I wanted to see if I could get answered:
> 
> What kind of antenna is required? I don't have access to the roof of my building, so something small and discreet that I can use inside is required, but I'm a bit confused as to whether NYC broadcasts are on UHF, VHF, or both.
> I live in the garden level of a brownstone in Park Slope, Brooklyn. I know that being low down in a stone building like this would affect reception, but given that the broadcast is very closeby (Empire State Building, correct?), am I likely to be able to get a decent signal given that I don't have access to the roof?




Please go to tvfool.

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...id=13&Itemid=1 


Plug in area and click the current database, only digital. Then click save image.


You can then attach the picture to your post or if too hard for you. Go to tinypic.com and upload image and then cut and paste the link that starts with into your post.


This way people can see what signals you are getting and offer the correct advise.


I personally like the indoor/outdoor antenna Terk-55. It is a tall stick that I use in the corner behind furniture.

[URL='http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/reviews/Terk-TV-55-reviews_51.html']http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/revie...eviews_51.html[/URL] 


I also tried the C2 Clearstream. It was same results for me as the Terk, but the analog was better at that time.

[URL='http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=C2&d=Antennas-Direct-C2-ClearStream2-Outdoor-Digital-HD-TV-Antenna-%28C2%29']http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...tenna-%28C2%29[/URL] 


Remember to shop for best prices online. The c2 is $100 at bestbuy and I paid $60 with no tax. The terk is about $60 on amazon.


In Queens with this setup I get 33 channels. Including sub stations.


GLTY


PS most stations are UHF but 3 (The major Stations) Are VHF. So you need an antenna to do both


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aravenel* /forum/post/17901091
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Apologies if this has been answered before, but I am debating canceling my TWC service and moving to OTA broadcast since I don't watch that much TV anymore.
> 
> 
> I am a total newbie at this, so I have a couple of questions that I wanted to see if I could get answered:
> 
> What kind of antenna is required? I don't have access to the roof of my building, so something small and discreet that I can use inside is required, but I'm a bit confused as to whether NYC broadcasts are on UHF, VHF, or both.
> I live in the garden level of a brownstone in Park Slope, Brooklyn. I know that being low down in a stone building like this would affect reception, but given that the broadcast is very closeby (Empire State Building, correct?), am I likely to be able to get a decent signal given that I don't have access to the roof?



If you have a cheap set of rabbit ears or a bowtie antenna, test with that first close to a window. You might get lucky and pick up a lot of channels.


----------



## aravenel

Here is the image from TVFool. My concern is that I'm basically at ground level since I live in the garden apartment, and being brownstone Brooklyn, there are plenty of stone structures around that may block the signal. On the other hand, I'm 5 miles from the transmitter, so there shouldn't be any lack of power. Thoughts? Also, do I need a VHF, or UHF antenna? Is there an antenna that can tune to both?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aravenel* /forum/post/17906155
> 
> 
> Here is the image from TVFool. My concern is that I'm basically at ground level since I live in the garden apartment, and being brownstone Brooklyn, there are plenty of stone structures around that may block the signal. On the other hand, I'm 5 miles from the transmitter, so there shouldn't be any lack of power. Thoughts? Also, do I need a VHF, or UHF antenna? Is there an antenna that can tune to both?



You should buy an antenna that can receive both High-VHF (Channels 7-13) and UHF. WABC (7), WPIX (11) and WNET (13) are all on High-VHF - the other major stations in the New York Metropolitan area use UHF.


Reception can be very tricky and frustrating. I would try, make sure you can return/exchange it, a Terk HDTVI - which is an unamplified indoor

VHF/UHF antenna.


Good luck!


----------



## aravenel

So even being


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aravenel* /forum/post/17906514
> 
> 
> So even being


----------



## aravenel

Gotcha. Yeah, there is no shortage of stuff in between me and the transmitter, that's for sure. Wish I had access to the roof, but unfortunately I do not.


----------



## aravenel

Sorry for the bombardment of posts here... I just want to confirm that that Terk HDTVi is a good antenna and will work to receive the major stations here in New York: ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox.


Thanks!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aravenel* /forum/post/17906514
> 
> 
> So even being


----------



## SnellKrell

Wherever you go to buy an antenna, in NYC, with so many buildings in the way, you will have to deal with multipath - that is, signals bouncing off buildings. Therefore, it's important to get a very directional antenna so you can home in on the best signals available.


That's why I suggested the Terk.


----------



## aravenel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17906826
> 
> 
> Wherever you go to buy an antenna, in NYC, with so many buildings in the way, you will have to deal with multipath - that is, signals bouncing off buildings. Therefore, it's important to get a very directional antenna so you can home in on the best signals available.
> 
> 
> That's why I suggested the Terk.



Gotcha, that makes sense. So I'd just take the Terk and point it in the compass bearing suggested by TVFool (towards ESB, I believe)? Does the antenna need to be near a window?


----------



## Dave Loudin

You can start there. If you're lucky, that's all you have to do. If reception is not what you want, then the frustrating part begins. Be prepared to try just about any direction in multiple locations in the room to find a spot where signals add up in your favor. Be also prepared to have several "sweet spots", as multipath adds up differently for each channel.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17906826
> 
> 
> Wherever you go to buy an antenna, in NYC, with so many buildings in the way, you will have to deal with multipath - that is, signals bouncing off buildings. Therefore, it's important to get a very directional antenna so you can home in on the best signals available.
> 
> 
> That's why I suggested the Terk.



Wouldn't Queens be Similar to Brooklyn? I do not like the Terk Directional antenna's Never read a good review. That is why I like the Terk 55 because it works for us. Everyone is different He needs to try 3 to 5 different antenna's Or until he gets the most channels


----------



## SnellKrell

Queens will not be similar to Queens!


I have seen instances where an apartment next door gets totally different reception.


When you're dealing with multipath reception you cannot assume anything.


In my situation, a highly directional antenna is mandate. The Terk HDTVI that I had recommended to be tried has its UHF portion based on the Silver Sensor, the antenna that I use. In fact, the Silver Sensor was originally developed with the help of the BBC, where in England, it's all UHF transmission. When the transition took place, I addded a set of VHF rabbit ears. The Terk, which works well for some friends, has the VHF rabbit ears already built-in.


I agree, one may well have to try different antennas. That's why I stressed the ability to return/exchange an antenna that doesn't work well in a particular situation.


----------



## Speed Daemon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aravenel* /forum/post/17906841
> 
> 
> Does the antenna need to be near a window?



No!!!


Windows are made for human-visible light. Their ability to pass RF frequencies is pretty much unrelated to how well you can see through them. Window frames that are made out of aluminum and similar materials that conduct electricity can make windows really bad places for RF reception.


My advice is to use trial-and-error to find your best indoor antenna placement. Same thing for internal antennas. If you can't return one that doesn't work for you, then you're out a couple dozen bucks. (IMHO it would be foolish to spend much for an internal antenna.) That's what garage sales are for!


----------



## aravenel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speed Daemon* /forum/post/17914409
> 
> 
> No!!!
> 
> 
> Windows are made for human-visible light. Their ability to pass RF frequencies is pretty much unrelated to how well you can see through them. Window frames that are made out of aluminum and similar materials that conduct electricity can make windows really bad places for RF reception.
> 
> 
> My advice is to use trial-and-error to find your best indoor antenna placement. Same thing for internal antennas. If you can't return one that doesn't work for you, then you're out a couple dozen bucks. (IMHO it would be foolish to spend much for an internal antenna.) That's what garage sales are for!



Right, I was wondering more because I assumed that a window is thinner, and easier for radio signals to get through, than the stone outer walls of my apartment. Of course, not that it matters, because I don't have any windows that are even remotely the same direction as the broadcast--to get the antenna near a window, I'd have to be pointing it almost 180 degrees away from the ESB.


I'm going to try to get one of these and see if it works. Like I said, I'm really worried because I'm in the garden level (slightly below ground, antenna would be at about exactly ground level) apartment. We shall see...


Next step (assuming I can make this work!) will be to get it up and running on my MythTV box...


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, tried to receive WPXN (31) this morning - and the signal is so low it won't allow reception.


So much for the station telling one of the Forum's members that reception would improve before the New Year once the station "moved buildings."


Come on Ion, get your act together and stop with the band-aids and move up to the Antenna Mast with higher power - this was all to have happened last August!


I still have not received any responses to my e-mails sent to the station about reception!


You're supposed to be in the communications business - how about communicating!!!!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aravenel* /forum/post/17906514
> 
> 
> So even being


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/17915014
> 
> 
> Well, tried to receive WPXN (31) this morning - and the signal is so low it won't allow reception.
> 
> 
> So much for the station telling one of the Forum's members that reception would improve before the New Year once the station "moved buildings."
> 
> 
> Come on Ion, get your act together and stop with the band-aids and move up to the Antenna Mast with higher power - this was all to have happened last August!
> 
> 
> I still have not received any responses to my e-mails sent to the station about reception!
> 
> 
> You're supposed to be in the communications business - how about communicating!!!!



When you can't tell the truth you can spin or be quiet. The latter is another form of communications.


----------



## SnellKrell

You said a mouthful!


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17901148
> 
> 
> Apparently, you do not have ch.17 in conv.box memory, punch in the number it puts you to nearest 1up



17-3 HD no show but color,apparently has been DELETED by management

17-1.2 720x480i 30 hz

17-4 audio only


----------



## Speed Daemon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aravenel* /forum/post/17914774
> 
> 
> Right, I was wondering more because I assumed that a window is thinner, and easier for radio signals to get through, than the stone outer walls of my apartment. Of course, not that it matters, because I don't have any windows that are even remotely the same direction as the broadcast--to get the antenna near a window, I'd have to be pointing it almost 180 degrees away from the ESB.
> 
> 
> I'm going to try to get one of these and see if it works. Like I said, I'm really worried because I'm in the garden level (slightly below ground, antenna would be at about exactly ground level) apartment. We shall see...
> 
> 
> Next step (assuming I can make this work!) will be to get it up and running on my MythTV box...



Garden apartment, eh? Your most "fun" will come from trying to keep a decent signal when your upstairs neighbors start moving around.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17917601
> 
> 
> 17-3 HD no show but color,apparently has been DELETED by management
> 
> 17-1.2 720x480i 30 hz
> 
> 17-4 audio only



WEBR 17.2 is acting up this week suddenly the resolution changed know it looks kinda crappy, even the color got darker.

Also Ch 17.1 is know a blue screen with GCN LOGO on it.

I hope all these tech problems are because they adding a NEW channel.


On another note what is going on with WASA i thought WNYE CH 25.2 was the worst channel on TV, but WASA ONLY SHOWS PICS WITH NO SOUND


----------



## jpru34

I completely readjusted the orientation of my antenna in my attic and have been getting ION reliably now (meter = 60-80%) for the past 4-5 days. As a result of this reorientation, I only receive channels 2 and 4 at around 70% when I used to get them both at 100%. Other stations are still at above 90%. So far no breakups on any of the stations! We will see if that trend continues over the coming weeks. Never a dull moment in trying to receive perfect reception on all channels. I hope everyone is having a happy and healthy new year.


----------



## nycdigital09

I can't get a peep from njn ch 50.1 from queens. is this channel normally attainable from queens, the same for 18.1 i believe is in the same antenna location over at montclair state university. a response from anyone would be welcomed!


----------



## AloEuro

yobiworld - " On another note what is going on with WASA i thought WNYE CH 25.2 was the worst channel on TV, but WASA ONLY SHOWS PICS WITH NO SOUND "

The purpose of ch.25-2 is service to car drivers, let's say you go to Yonkers -check the traffic on 25-2 in that direction, going to NJ? - check the Holland tunnel to see the traffic, it is good service strictly for drivers - not for TV viewers. However,

I use it also as weather report, ch7-3 the hours windows are pre-programmed especially for weekend giving unreliable weather report, ch25-2 is live, you can see people carrying umbrellas crossing streets, it is reliable the best visual weather report.

64-1 gives only infomercials, 64-2 slideshow.


----------



## SnellKrell

You're forgetting the "wonderful" infomercials on WASA - Channel 64.1!


----------



## AloEuro

Last weekend funny thing happened to 68-1.2, the signal always at 100 got lost for brief time and 41-1.2 become strong, and then again it reversed to normal, I'm sure come June 12 the signal will be strong again (I hope).alo.


----------



## StudioTech

Huh? Why would you think this coming June 12th would change anything? Unless you're being sarcastic.


----------



## SnellKrell

The day that shall live in infamy?


----------



## AloEuro

the FIFA real futbal from South Africa starts in June, I tried to connect to what - nycdigital09 - was saying.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17927144
> 
> 
> I can't get a peep from njn ch 50.1 from queens. is this channel normally attainable from queens, the same for 18.1 i believe is in the same antenna location over at montclair state university. a response from anyone would be welcomed!



The 50-1.2.3Audio from another direction is also 52-1.2 lots of kiddies shows.3Audio only, it is in memory of one conv. box but it's too much trouble to get signal, would loose other channels on the Coship. Another box iNet/ Tivax type can not get it to memory - too much tinkering with Ant. leads to loss of signal in particular from Ion31.

I was also able to get 55-1 to memory, but the same as the NJ ch.50/52 it requires lots of repositioning of my double or triple BowRabbitears indoor Ant. with suplementary subject to wind roof Ant. connected to 4-1 splitter, in other words the 52 and 55 are in memory with Zero signal.


----------



## Bix

Is it just my box acting up or are 5.2 and 9.2 gone? I liked the option of having them even if they are kinda weird.


----------



## SnellKrell

I'm receiving them, but now they are just 489i - SD simulcasts. That is, the same programming on 5.2 as 5.1, and the same programming on 9.2 as 9.1.


Still wastes of bandwidth!


----------



## Trip in VA

Could they have flipped the mappings?


44.3 (Fox-HD) mapped to 5-1

44.4 (My-SD) mapped to 9-2


38.3 (My-HD) mapped to 9-1

38.4 (Fox-SD) mapped to 5-2


Like so? I know Fox has done that in other markets.


- Trip


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17942660
> 
> 
> Could they have flipped the mappings?
> 
> 
> 44.3 (Fox-HD) mapped to 5-1
> 
> 44.4 (My-SD) mapped to 9-2
> 
> 
> 38.3 (My-HD) mapped to 9-1
> 
> 38.4 (Fox-SD) mapped to 5-2
> 
> 
> Like so? I know Fox has done that in other markets.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thats what they used to be.


5.2 was 9.1 in SD

9.2 was 5.1 in SD


Seems to have changed for whatever reason Friday or Sat.


----------



## SnellKrell

This is getting confusing.


Previously:


5.1 - Fox HD

5.2 - My SD


9.1 - My HD

9.2 - Fox SD


Now:


5.1 - Fox HD

5.2 - Fox SD


9.1 - My HD

9.2 - My SD


Hope this helps!!!!


----------



## Trip in VA

SiliconDust hasn't caught up yet. It will have answers once it does.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech

Speaking of subchannel switches, WPIX recently flipped LATV (was .1, now .2) and Estrella TV (was .2, now .1)


----------



## SnellKrell

Let's talk Digital Display - the way the majority of people understand the mapping of channels.


11.1 - WPIX (CW) - HD

11.2 - Estrella TV - SD

11.3 - LATV - SD


----------



## jkelly

Anyone else having trouble with 5-1 today (1/17)?


Jeff


----------



## yobiworld

I noticed that CBS has no sub channel. They should add one soon


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17943721
> 
> 
> I noticed that CBS has no sub channel. They should add one soon



No, that would decrease the HD picture quality. The CBS-owned stations are some of the last to still have pristine picture quality due to not having any subchannels.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

I hope WCBS never adds a subchannel. Subchannels are big waste of time and look terrible on my TV at the cruddy 480i 30 Hz. They can keep them.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17943721
> 
> 
> I noticed that CBS has no sub channel. They should add one soon



It is an on going argument here. The people with the large 50" Flat screen LCD/Plasma TV's Do not want any sub-stations on CBS because 50" Large screens show every flaw in picture quality. The more sub stations the more compression and thus more flaws.


The people with the 27" CRT (Old TV) Wants as many sub-stations as possible. Since any amount of compression will not show on such tiny old TV's


I used to want 100 sub-stations. The more the better. BUT now that I see the BAD programing on the sub stations. I am in favor of no subs. Unless they get movie channels and 24/7 news and programing like sci fi station of discovery. Or Tv Land ect


If they are just going to put out crap on the sub's then why have them?


----------



## Ronald Whalin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkelly* /forum/post/17943600
> 
> 
> Anyone else having trouble with 5-1 today (1/17)?
> 
> 
> Jeff



I am in Chatham, NJ but have watched all NY HDTV stations since the DTV conversion. In recent weeks, channel 5-1 WNYW TV has become unusable for me. All other NY channels are loud and clear. While trying to watch football yesterday on FOX which used to be on 9-2, I found there was essentially no signal on that channel even though 9-1 comes in great (10 bars on my Samsung TV). I have two antennas in the attic UHF and VHF connected to a Channel Master 7777 preamp. At least 5-2 is comming in 10-bars and has FOX transmission of the Cowboys-Vikings game. I notice from VA's spreadsheet that WNYW has side mounted antennas on ESB. Perhaps this effects my reception. However, 9-1 and 5-2 are comming in great, though 5-2 is not high def. I wonder if these stations are messing with all of this. Went to FCC site and could find nothing.


----------



## Trip in VA

So you're getting 9-1 and 5-2, but not 5-1 and 9-2? This makes it sound like my theory is correct...


- Trip


----------



## rcodey

Deleted


----------



## Bix

Now I have a 5.2, which is an SD simulcast of 5.1, but the signal levels are noticeably different so I presume it's the former 9.2 still on the same frequency but now mapped to 5.2.


Still no 9.2, though.


It's not necessarily a waste: My sister, who lives right by the ESB, has had trouble with 5.1 and needed to use 9.2 in the past, plus it's nice to have for stuff like OAR Seinfeld if someone desired it.


----------



## mw390




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/17943886
> 
> 
> It is an on going argument here. The people with the large 50" Flat screen LCD/Plasma TV's Do not want any sub-stations on CBS because 50" Large screens show every flaw in picture quality. The more sub stations the more compression and thus more flaws.
> 
> 
> The people with the 27" CRT (Old TV) Wants as many sub-stations as possible. Since any amount of compression will not show on such tiny old TV's
> 
> 
> I used to want 100 sub-stations. The more the better. BUT now that I see the BAD programing on the sub stations. I am in favor of no subs. Unless they get movie channels and 24/7 news and programing like sci fi station of discovery. Or Tv Land ect
> 
> 
> If they are just going to put out crap on the sub's then why have them?



Fred Friendly, who was an early TV pioneer and worked with Edward R Murrow said the networks were under the gun because there were only 24 hours in the day and only so many commercials would fit in. Now, they have expanded the clock and thus the sub-channels. Hopefully no one will watch, there will be negligible Nielson data and they'll collapse the sub-channels


----------



## nycdigital09

i hate to complain a bit but doesnt anybody find the ota forum out of wack, why is ota forum from one city mix with cable or hdtv from another, i have to constantly look for ota philly or hartford in every page (pain in the butt) why dont the web designer put only ota forums on few pages then cable on different pages cant somebody explain this to me ?


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17945192
> 
> 
> So you're getting 9-1 and 5-2, but not 5-1 and 9-2? This makes it sound like my theory is correct...
> 
> 
> - Trip



I missed the theory. Where may I find it? Thanks.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17942660
> 
> 
> Could they have flipped the mappings?
> 
> 
> 44.3 (Fox-HD) mapped to 5-1
> 
> 44.4 (My-SD) mapped to 9-2
> 
> 
> 38.3 (My-HD) mapped to 9-1
> 
> 38.4 (Fox-SD) mapped to 5-2
> 
> 
> Like so? I know Fox has done that in other markets.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That. My listings on RabbitEars reflect this change in configuration, as it seems pretty much confirmed as far as I'm concerned.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17951478
> 
> 
> That. My listings on RabbitEars reflect this change in configuration, as it seems pretty much confirmed as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> 
> - Trip



So if FOX HD-5 and My SD-9 were to be mapped into the higher top-mounted channel 38 antenna and Fox SD-5 and My HD-9 were to be mapped into the lower and side-mounted channel 44 antenna it would serve their market better.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/17943886
> 
> 
> It is an on going argument here. The people with the large 50" Flat screen LCD/Plasma TV's Do not want any sub-stations on CBS because 50" Large screens show every flaw in picture quality. The more sub stations the more compression and thus more flaws.
> 
> 
> The people with the 27" CRT (Old TV) Wants as many sub-stations as possible. Since any amount of compression will not show on such tiny old TV's
> 
> 
> I used to want 100 sub-stations. The more the better. BUT now that I see the BAD programing on the sub stations. I am in favor of no subs. Unless they get movie channels and 24/7 news and programing like sci fi station of discovery. Or Tv Land ect
> 
> 
> If they are just going to put out crap on the sub's then why have them?



You know what?


You have a great point i thought that June 12, 2009 things would be different. More channels better programming.

Thought it would be like having cable and for while it did kinda feel like that.


Unfortunately I was wrong every time someone adds a new channel it ends up with some crappy programming.


The ONLY networks I seen taking full advantage of there Subchannel is NBC

CW PiX. They have sports a music channel that plays American music.

CBS should add maybe a Subchannel that plays some there old programming.


My advise is If YOUT not gonna put something that is worth watching then dont bother


----------



## nyctveng

cbs has stated they will not put subchannels on their own and operated stations (NY, LA, chicago, etc)


the business model is not about putting on worthwhile programming but generating revenue with subchannels have hardly done. nbc subchannels do not generate revenue, wpix makes some on lease agreements with estrella and latv. pbs stations like 13 & 21 obviously do not make money on their subchannels but provide a good public service for kids, spanish, etc.


subchannels are good for supplementing/complimenting sister services such as WNYW/WWOR and WXTV/WFUT where OTA viewers may get one of the signals and not the other.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17959950
> 
> 
> You know what?
> 
> 
> You have a great point i thought that June 12, 2009 things would be different. More channels better programming.
> 
> Thought it would be like having cable and for while it did kinda feel like that.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I was wrong every time someone adds a new channel it ends up with some crappy programming.
> 
> 
> The ONLY networks I seen taking full advantage of there Subchannel is NBC
> 
> CW PiX. They have sports a music channel that plays American music.
> 
> CBS should add maybe a Subchannel that plays some there old programming.
> 
> 
> My advise is If YOUT not gonna put something that is worth watching then dont bother


----------



## reddice

I noticed it with channels 5 and 9 too. I did not even know that a subchannel can be on a different RF channel from the main channel.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17960404
> 
> 
> I noticed it with channels 5 and 9 too. I did not even know that a subchannel can be on a different RF channel from the main channel.



Fox is doing this now in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Minneapolis at least.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17959950
> 
> 
> You know what?
> 
> 
> You have a great point i thought that June 12, 2009 things would be different. More channels better programming.
> 
> Thought it would be like having cable and for while it did kinda feel like that.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I was wrong every time someone adds a new channel it ends up with some crappy programming.
> 
> 
> The ONLY networks I seen taking full advantage of there Subchannel is NBC
> 
> CW PiX. They have sports a music channel that plays American music.
> 
> CBS should add maybe a Subchannel that plays some there old programming.
> 
> 
> My advise is If YOUT not gonna put something that is worth watching then dont bother



PS ION is not bad


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/17951392
> 
> 
> i hate to complain a bit but doesnt anybody find the ota forum out of wack, why is ota forum from one city mix with cable or hdtv from another, i have to constantly look for ota philly or hartford in every page (pain in the butt) why dont the web designer put only ota forums on few pages then cable on different pages cant somebody explain this to me ?



Your complaint is valid and your suggestion is good. I got around the issue you wrote about by simply adding the link to the NY OTA to my favorites. You could do the same for Philly and other OTA markets you were interested in. I would love to see just an OTA forum.


----------



## Trip in VA

The argument I've heard most frequently in favor of a combined forum for all services (OTA/cable/satellite) in an area is that if something is wrong with a local station, it's easy to have people with multiple services confirm, whereas if there's a problem with a specific service like a local cable company, the users of the other services can confirm it's fine for them.


The only time I've seen threads split like that in recent times are when posts about one service just completely drown out the others. For example, the Cleveland HDTV thread was turned into the Cleveland TWC thread because 80% or more of posts were about Time-Warner cable. A new thread for OTA was started.


Plus there are a lot of markets where there is not enough traffic to justify additional threads. I know I would not suggest splitting up my area's HDTV thread since there are not nearly enough posts to justify splitting it up.


- Trip


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/17962116
> 
> 
> PS ION is not bad



If you can get it. During the holidays i got the station very weak with breakups but now I can't even get a blimp of a picture on channel 31.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17964544
> 
> 
> If you can get it. During the holidays i got the station very weak with breakups but now I can't even get a blimp of a picture on channel 31.



Go figure Reddice, ION has been rock-solid for me the past few weeks after having been pretty crappy in December.


----------



## AloEuro

Divorce? As it has been already noted elsewhere ch.5-1 and -2 is only 5fox no more 9 and the same with ch.9- and -2 only 9wor no more 5fox, however

they are together on ch.44-1.2.4 usually 44-1goes to Fox5-1 though it may go to 9-1, depending what kind of conv.box you may, only 44-3 is no Video/Audio though good signal


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/17962116
> 
> 
> PS ION is not bad



ION


Does not have good programming In opinion


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17966289
> 
> 
> ION
> 
> 
> Does not have good programming In opinion



You no like Boston Legal? Awwww


----------



## jpru34

Maybe - but Qubo (31.2) is priceless as my kids love it so much.


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/17943721
> 
> 
> I noticed that CBS has no sub channel. They should add one soon



At this point it might be more likely for the CBS O&Os to consider ATSC-M/H rather than a subchannel. It will still effect HD quality but it would at least be a new business model for CBS to experiment with. CBS already has (partially) a subchannel for some of their affiliates called the CW and that doesn't seem to be making CBS big money.


----------



## SnellKrell

CBS owns half of CW with Warner Bros. controlling the remainder.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/17960404
> 
> 
> I noticed it with channels 5 and 9 too. I did not even know that a subchannel can be on a different RF channel from the main channel.



a subchannel CANNOT be on a different RF channel. 5.2 is not a sunchannel of 5.1 as 9.2 is not a subchannel of 9.1. WWOR and WNYW only changed PSIP information for the benefit of those that pickup one RF channel and not the other.


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17963188
> 
> 
> The only time I've seen threads split like that in recent times are when posts about one service just completely drown out the others. For example, the Cleveland HDTV thread was turned into the Cleveland TWC thread because 80% or more of posts were about Time-Warner cable. A new thread for OTA was started.
> 
> 
> Plus there are a lot of markets where there is not enough traffic to justify additional threads. I know I would not suggest splitting up my area's HDTV thread since there are not nearly enough posts to justify splitting it up.
> 
> 
> - Trip



The one un-split thread that really surprises me is the Washington, DC / Baltimore, MD HDTV thread although there are separate threads for DC Comcast and DC Verizon.


----------



## newhdcrt

I don't know if it's atmospherics, but tonight I have a solid lock on abc new york. Never had more than a blip before.


----------



## makan01

Hi All,


I have a weird situation here that I need your help with. I have Dish Network that I hooked up an OTA antenna through the ViP722 receiver. Prior to the digital signal conversion I used to receive the 11 (CW) and 7 (WABC) no problem. Unfortunately after the conversion, I believe the stations moved from UHF to Hi-VHF and I could not get them on my UHF only antenna Clearstream 2. I bit the bullet and bought a new antenna, Freevision, which I installed today and rescanned. This antenna is great, I receive even more channels (2, 4, 5, 9, 11, 13, 21, 25, 31, 41, 47, 55, 64, 67, and 68). Do you see what is missing? Yes, it is WABC. Why I can receive all the possible channels except WABC? Looking at the map TVFOOL.com gave me, WABC should not be any different than NBC. So what gives.


I tried to look through the messages in this thread, but according to multiple comments, WABC should be strong enough to receive. I draw on your collective analysis to get to the bottom of this mystery.


I appreciate your help or receommendations.


BTW, I live in Mamaroneck, NY.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *makan01* /forum/post/17976926
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> I have a weird situation here that I need your help with. I have Dish Network that I hooked up an OTA antenna through the ViP722 receiver. Prior to the digital signal conversion I used to receive the 11 (CW) and 7 (WABC) no problem. Unfortunately after the conversion, I believe the stations moved from UHF to Hi-VHF and I could not get them on my UHF only antenna Clearstream 2. I bit the bullet and bought a new antenna, Freevision, which I installed today and rescanned. This antenna is great, I receive even more channels (2, 4, 5, 9, 11, 13, 21, 25, 31, 41, 47, 55, 64, 67, and 68). Do you see what is missing? Yes, it is WABC. Why I can receive all the possible channels except WABC? Looking at the map TVFOOL.com gave me, WABC should not be any different than NBC. So what gives.
> 
> 
> I tried to look through the messages in this thread, but according to multiple comments, WABC should be strong enough to receive. I draw on your collective analysis to get to the bottom of this mystery.
> 
> 
> I appreciate your help or receommendations.
> 
> 
> BTW, I live in Mamaroneck, NY.



To think that VHF-WABC and UHF-WNBC should not be any different is the height of wishful thinking. Just because the two stations use the Antenna Mast on the ESB is almost meaningless.


What you have to hope for and wait for is that the FCC approves an increase in power that WABC has requested. The complication with this is that WABC's hope for more power is predicated upon a like filing by WNJB - Channel 8 in New Jersey and WGAL in Pennsylvania getting OKs.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *makan01* /forum/post/17976926
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> I have a weird situation here that I need your help with. I have Dish Network that I hooked up an OTA antenna through the ViP722 receiver. Prior to the digital signal conversion I used to receive the 11 (CW) and 7 (WABC) no problem. Unfortunately after the conversion, I believe the stations moved from UHF to Hi-VHF and I could not get them on my UHF only antenna Clearstream 2. I bit the bullet and bought a new antenna, Freevision, which I installed today and rescanned. This antenna is great, I receive even more channels (2, 4, 5, 9, 11, 13, 21, 25, 31, 41, 47, 55, 64, 67, and 68). Do you see what is missing? Yes, it is WABC. Why I can receive all the possible channels except WABC? Looking at the map TVFOOL.com gave me, WABC should not be any different than NBC. So what gives.
> 
> 
> I tried to look through the messages in this thread, but according to multiple comments, WABC should be strong enough to receive. I draw on your collective analysis to get to the bottom of this mystery.
> 
> 
> I appreciate your help or receommendations.
> 
> 
> BTW, I live in Mamaroneck, NY.



Try these:

1. Rotate the antenna slightly and/or raise it it a little. You need two people with cellphone. If not try,

2. Change the length of the down lead cable by 11 inches.

These are intended to counter OTA or cable multipath at channel 7


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *makan01* /forum/post/17976926
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> I have a weird situation here that I need your help with. I have Dish Network that I hooked up an OTA antenna through the ViP722 receiver. Prior to the digital signal conversion I used to receive the 11 (CW) and 7 (WABC) no problem. Unfortunately after the conversion, I believe the stations moved from UHF to Hi-VHF and I could not get them on my UHF only antenna Clearstream 2. I bit the bullet and bought a new antenna, Freevision, which I installed today and rescanned. This antenna is great, I receive even more channels (2, 4, 5, 9, 11, 13, 21, 25, 31, 41, 47, 55, 64, 67, and 68). Do you see what is missing? Yes, it is WABC. Why I can receive all the possible channels except WABC? Looking at the map TVFOOL.com gave me, WABC should not be any different than NBC. So what gives.
> 
> 
> I tried to look through the messages in this thread, but according to multiple comments, WABC should be strong enough to receive. I draw on your collective analysis to get to the bottom of this mystery.
> 
> 
> I appreciate your help or receommendations.
> 
> 
> BTW, I live in Mamaroneck, NY.



In NY, 7, 9, and 13 all moved back to their original analog channels as part of the digital transition. The rest on the NY stations stayed on UHF channels. Comparing the specifications of the C2 vs. the FV30, the C2 should be expected to outperform the FV30 on all the UHF channels.


The FV30 spec indicates a gain on channel 7 of -8.1 dBi (-10.25 dBd) with a F/B ration of 0.0. A properly oriented and perfect "rabbit ears" has a gain of 2.15 dBi (0 dBd) with a F/B also of 0.


Forecasted power levels for your city suggest WABC should be receivable with a decent antenna, even one with negative gain, that is properly installed. You didn't indicate mounting location (indoors, outdoors, attic, etc) and any additional equipment that be detrimental to system performance.


I'd throw an FM trap into the line between the antenna and the first electronic device (amplifier or tuner) as you might be getting FM interference from 90.7 FM (46 Kw at about 9 miles). I'd also try different mounting locations and heights of the antenna.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17978483
> 
> 
> In NY, 7, 9, and 13 all moved back to their original analog channels as part of the digital transition.



9 stayed on UHF. It's 7, 11, and 13 that are on VHF now.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

Since the fox and wor have no tenant for their -2 sub, perhaps it is time for wor9 to

put their Million Dollar movies on 9-2. And fox?

since they complain about 'loosing $$', surely they have great collection of films,


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *makan01* /forum/post/17976926
> 
> 
> I bit the bullet and bought a new antenna, Freevision, which I installed today and rescanned.



Unfortunately the FreeVision isn't a very good antenna for Channel 7 and the Winegard HD-1080 is even worse for that channel. Hopefully the suggestions made in the post by DTVintermods will work for you or you can return it to where you bought it.


----------



## nycdigital09

I don't know if it's atmospherics, but tonight I have a solid lock on abc new york. Never had more than a blip before.


I think your're right about good signal propogation last night, azteca tv when out last night, I picked up channel 39 from hartford last night, also wtxx ch 20 came as well, it was intense tropo last night


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/17978535
> 
> 
> 9 stayed on UHF. It's 7, 11, and 13 that are on VHF now.
> 
> 
> - Trip





That's what I get from trying to do things from memory..


Thanks for the correction.


As Maxwell Smart used to say, "Missed it by this much"....


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/17982534
> 
> 
> That's what I get from trying to do things from memory..
> 
> 
> Thanks for the correction.
> 
> 
> As Maxwell Smart used to say, "Missed it by this much"....



Sorry, wrong again!


It was, "Missed it by *that* much."


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17981664
> 
> 
> Since the fox and wor have no tenant for their -2 sub, perhaps it is time for wor9 to
> 
> put their Million Dollar movies on 9-2. And fox?
> 
> since they complain about 'loosing $$', surely they have great collection of films,



Even if they wanted to do that, all the tapes that the then WOR-TV had in its library were thrown out or lost when they moved to Secaucus back in the 80s.


----------



## SnellKrell

Whether a station stores old tapes of movies or not, does not allow them to continue to play them at will. They don't own the films, in essence, they rent them from their owners/distributors.


Stations negotiate with the owners/distributors of programming for the right to air them within a specific time frame known as the "window" and also the number of times they can be shown.


So, the assumption that Channel 9 continues to have rights to "Million Dollar Movies" just isn't so!


----------



## StudioTech

I sometimes long for the days when WPIX was 11Alive, but this is the closest that I'm gonna see.

http://www.wpix.com/marketplace/cafepress/


----------



## AloEuro

Last Sat. Pix11-1 was showing Rangers loss at Blues, this Saturday,today Rangers

at 7 on 11-1; Good weather - good signal, maybe the signal will hold.


----------



## AloEuro

And before there was wpix11 Alive, and before the Yankees reinvaded wpix11, every night there was then current movie on, that was one major reason that Drive-In were killed, now who is killing the TV ? - BAAAAD Programming, don't blame the internet in spite off the fact that instead of watching TV you are seating behind the pc and writing and reading what you see in front of you - it is the Bad programming, what do you think?


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/17987625
> 
> 
> BAAAAD Programming, don't blame the internet in spite off the fact that instead of watching TV you are seating behind the pc and writing and reading what you see in front of you - it is the Bad programming, what do you think?



Of course it's the programming but the fact is total television revenue is split between many more channels. Creativity could probably solve the problem but that also seems to be in short supply amongst some of the owners of those many channels.


----------



## AloEuro

It seems to me that the Spanish TV stations have one great advantage over English

speaking ch.'s, they get shows from Argentina,Colombia and other Habla Espanol

countries to get good shows on U.S. air.

True, claim of bad programming is cop out, too many other factors are involved in shrinking of TV audiences, and for 1 actor in half hour sitcom to get under 1mil. per episode will not bring up TV revenues


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18000991
> 
> 
> It seems to me that the Spanish TV stations have one great advantage over English
> 
> speaking ch.'s, they get shows from Argentina,Colombia and other Habla Espanol
> 
> countries to get good shows on U.S. air.
> 
> True, claim of bad programming is cop out, too many other factors are involved in shrinking of TV audiences, and for 1 actor in half hour sitcom to get under 1mil. per episode will not bring up TV revenues



Sorry Alo, US created programing is by far better than the Spanish language programs brought into this country. First of all, the US is an English speaking country. Shows such as the Simpsons and movies like Avatar are seen all over the world in many different languages. Creative programming, like music, Movies & TV is still one of America's greatest export items. Now to be honest, I don't speak Spanish and feel no reason with the vast supply of quality English language programming to watch shows with sub-titles or dubbed audio. To each their own but in the USA, English is the language (even if our politicians don't have the ba**s to say so) and the last thing we need to do considering that we import everything else is to import TV shows and movies. In the UK the reason that Sky TV is so successful is that they air US produced programs. Enjoy your Spanish language television but don't expect it to become anything more than niche programming in this country.


----------



## SnellKrell

I don't know where you live, but in many major cities in the U.S., Spanish language programming outrates the major (network affiliated) English language stations.


As the Spanish speaking population increases, so shall the television programming.


Good old American capitalism!!!


----------



## nyctveng

many latinos living in major cities like NYC & LA rely solely on OTA so there is lot spanish language programming on TV and radio stations will carry programming that generate revenue for them (example WPIX carrying 2 spanish subchannels under lease agreement)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18002048
> 
> 
> Sorry Alo, US created programing is by far better than the Spanish language programs brought into this country. First of all, the US is an English speaking country. Shows such as the Simpsons and movies like Avatar are seen all over the world in many different languages. Creative programming, like music, Movies & TV is still one of America's greatest export items. Now to be honest, I don't speak Spanish and feel no reason with the vast supply of quality English language programming to watch shows with sub-titles or dubbed audio. To each their own but in the USA, English is the language (even if our politicians don't have the ba**s to say so) and the last thing we need to do considering that we import everything else is to import TV shows and movies. In the UK the reason that Sky TV is so successful is that they air US produced programs. Enjoy your Spanish language television but don't expect it to become anything more than niche programming in this country.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18002160
> 
> 
> I don't know where you live, but in many major cities in the U.S., Spanish language programming outrates the major (network affiliated) English language stations.
> 
> 
> As the Spanish speaking population increases, so shall the television programming.
> 
> 
> Good old American capitalism!!!



I live in NYC and the Spanish UHF's do not beat the major English language stations in this market. Yes, there are 3 Spanish language TV stations (plus a few on the HD 2 & 3 channels of WPIX, an HD 3 on WNET and some low powered facilities). When Arbitron moved from old fashioned diaries to the more accurate PPM system they use now in major markets, the ratings for both Spanish language and urban radio, while still profitable, were nowhere near as highly rated.


This is still a majority English language country by a very wide margin and so unless you are in southern California or the Arizona/Texas/New Mexican border English language stations have wider audiences. This is not an insult to the Spanish language. I just hope, like every other minority who has come to this country, those who rely on Spanish language media, learn English and join the rest of us as all of our forefathers did in previous generations.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18002684
> 
> 
> many latinos living in major cities like NYC & LA rely solely on OTA so there is lot spanish language programming on TV and radio stations will carry programming that generate revenue for them (example WPIX carrying 2 spanish subchannels under lease agreement)



Tribune is desperate for money and so have leased their HD 2 & HD 3 channels to a third party. I'd be interested to see just how many people watch those channels. relative to the full power, main channel broadcasts, the HD 2 & 3 channels have very small audiences. Only the poorest receive their TV OTA in the NY Market. Cable/satellite penetration is enormous. I have DirecTV and they don't carry any of the NY HD 2 or HD 3 channels. There is alos a Korean TV broadcaster in the market. Yes they are profitable but compaired with main stream English language broadcasters these stations have a limited audience potential. Remember even people who speak Spanish watch the mainstream VHF commercial channels. I seriously doubt there's a messurable Engluish language audience for the Spanish stations. That's my opinion.


----------



## StudioTech

Those 2 subchannels that WPIX carries are also carried on the area cable systems, so while they might not be getting much of an OTA audience, they're definitely getting a cable audience.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18012374
> 
> 
> Those 2 subchannels that WPIX carries are also carried on the area cable systems, so while they might not be getting much of an OTA audience, they're definitely getting a cable audience.



They are not being broadcast over DirecTV. Which cable carriers are airing HD 2 & HD 3 channels other than Roadrunner in the city?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18012374
> 
> 
> Those 2 subchannels that WPIX carries are also carried on the area cable systems, so while they might not be getting much of an OTA audience, they're definitely getting a cable audience.



estrella does not have wide cable carriage yet but i imagine any system carrying WPIX HD and LATV will launch estrella at some point since it will not take any more bandwith on their systems. for programmers looking to gain quick carriage in major markets, leasing arrangements with a major network works. if down the road the network becomes popular enough, they can then go directly to cable companies and ask for license fees rather than pay someone to carry them.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18010143
> 
> 
> Tribune is desperate for money and so have leased their HD 2 & HD 3 channels to a third party. I'd be interested to see just how many people watch those channels. relative to the full power, main channel broadcasts, the HD 2 & 3 channels have very small audiences. Only the poorest receive their TV OTA in the NY Market. Cable/satellite penetration is enormous. I have DirecTV and they don't carry any of the NY HD 2 or HD 3 channels. There is alos a Korean TV broadcaster in the market. Yes they are profitable but compaired with main stream English language broadcasters these stations have a limited audience potential. Remember even people who speak Spanish watch the mainstream VHF commercial channels. I seriously doubt there's a messurable Engluish language audience for the Spanish stations. That's my opinion.



korean broadcaster WMBC has a much more limited audience than say ABC,NBC,or FOX but their audience is much more loyal and watch longer. many immigrants pay their cable company upwards of $20 per month for a single channel in their native language.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18013586
> 
> 
> They are not being broadcast over DirecTV. Which cable carriers are airing HD 2 & HD 3 channels other than Roadrunner in the city?



I believe RCN, Cablevision


----------



## yobiworld

Turned on the TV and got a channel called AIRTV it's an audio channles but nothing is playing?


----------



## a72849

WMBC-DT is owned by a non-profit company. They can earn money and then spend it all on salaries and their causes.


From their web site www.wmbctv.com: "WMBC-TV is wholly owned by Mountain Broadcasting Corporation. Mountain Broadcasting Corporation was incorporated in 1985. Its Chairman, Rev. Sun Young Joo, founded Hanguk Christian Broadcasting, Inc., a non-profit organization that produced programming for TV and cable viewers in New York, Northern New Jersey, and Los Angeles."


----------



## ramonv

Most of the Spanish languages prime time shows we get in the US are remakes from very popular shows in Latin American, these shows are remade with no nudity and some of the dialogues are replaced, they get better looking actors and make them speak in a "Español Neutral". An example is "Mujeres Asesinas"(too TV-MA for the USA) originally from Argentina, Univision will air season 2 with Mexican actors (TV-PG version) remade by Televisa but they have to pay a certain amount to the Argentinean network.


I just watch the original versions on Directv.


----------



## AloEuro

Certainly, I did like the "niche programming" assesment though I disagree.


And about the Korean TV? On 9/11 afternoon there were only 2 OTA stations non-stop

running, Ch.2CBS from ESB, and ch.17 Korean station and that's how it was for couple of days before ch.25 and 31 were invaded by WTC orphans.


----------



## johnosolis

I guess ION (31-1, -2, -3) has increased its power. I can now receive about a 50% signal here in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Since the digital distribution, the signal had been coming in at a solid 0%.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18033761
> 
> 
> I guess ION (31-1, -2, -3) has increased its power. I can now receive about a 50% signal here in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Since the digital distribution, the signal had been coming in at a solid 0%.



To get ION31-1.2.3.4 you need 2 rabbit/bow indoor Ant. as one, I've got since Thanksgiving 08


----------



## AloEuro

My Yahoo e-mail is under bombardment by Direct TV at $30-offers, I know some people as - nyctveng - noted who pay up to $40 per single non-English ch. cutting out English ch., it's no wonder that Direct TV launched their ads blitzkrieg.


----------



## nycdigital09

Originally Posted by AloEuro View Post

It seems to me that the Spanish TV stations have one great advantage over English

speaking ch.'s, they get shows from Argentina,Colombia and other Habla Espanol

countries to get good shows on U.S. air.

True, claim of bad programming is cop out, too many other factors are involved in shrinking of TV audiences, and for 1 actor in half hour sitcom to get under 1mil. per episode will not bring up TV revenue


Usa tv programming is by far the trend leaders most of the variety shows or drama shows in spanish generated by any latino speaking country is a total rip-off copy from the US original shows, just my opinion, look at spanish game shows are copy of family feud, sabado gigante is rip off lawrence welk show of eons ago, lol the us programming is the tops no buts or ifs


----------



## mikepier

Wierd mappings with 5.1 and 9.1


When I manually punch in 38.1, I'm expected to get My9HD, but I get WNYW 5.2 instead.

Only if I punch in 9.1 do I get My9HD. Very confusing.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18035722
> 
> 
> To get ION31-1.2.3.4 you need 2 rabbit/bow indoor Ant. as one, I've got since Thanksgiving 08



31.4 worship channel is going off the air this week


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18035952
> 
> 
> My Yahoo e-mail is under bombardment by Direct TV at $30-offers, I know some people as - nyctveng - noted who pay up to $40 per single non-English ch. cutting out English ch., it's no wonder that Direct TV launched their ads blitzkrieg.



on time warners website it shows tv japan as the most expensive ethnic channel @ $25/month and i'm sure there are people that have no problem paying that much to watch programming in their native language.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...ndles/new.html


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a72849* /forum/post/18018650
> 
> 
> WMBC-DT is owned by a non-profit company. They can earn money and then spend it all on salaries and their causes.
> 
> 
> From their web site www.wmbctv.com: "WMBC-TV is wholly owned by Mountain Broadcasting Corporation. Mountain Broadcasting Corporation was incorporated in 1985. Its Chairman, Rev. Sun Young Joo, founded Hanguk Christian Broadcasting, Inc., a non-profit organization that produced programming for TV and cable viewers in New York, Northern New Jersey, and Los Angeles."



but i dont think they are a 510(c)3 non profit


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18037044
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by AloEuro View Post
> 
> It seems to me that the Spanish TV stations have one great advantage over English
> 
> speaking ch.'s, they get shows from Argentina,Colombia and other Habla Espanol
> 
> countries to get good shows on U.S. air.
> 
> True, claim of bad programming is cop out, too many other factors are involved in shrinking of TV audiences, and for 1 actor in half hour sitcom to get under 1mil. per episode will not bring up TV revenue
> 
> 
> Usa tv programming is by far the trend leaders most of the variety shows or drama shows in spanish generated by any latino speaking country is a total rip-off copy from the US original shows, just my opinion, look at spanish game shows are copy of family feud, sabado gigante is rip off lawrence welk show of eons ago, lol the us programming is the tops no buts or ifs



Sabado Gigante has been on TV since 1962 (Chile), before they had to shoot 2 versions one for Chile and the other one for the rest of the world. Today is just one show but South America doesn't get to see the parts made for the Mexican audience in the US.


Family Feud in Spanish is produced by Freemantle Media, they own the rights.


There are also 3 versions of "The Nanny" in Spanish all produced by SONY Television, 3 versions of "Married with Children" (Chile, Colombia and Argentina).


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18039497
> 
> 
> 31.4 worship channel is going off the air this week



How do you know? Is there a link? Will it be replaced with something good? Or just gone tia


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18039497
> 
> 
> 31.4 worship channel is going off the air this week



yes about time they take that crap off


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18033761
> 
> 
> I guess ION (31-1, -2, -3) has increased its power. I can now receive about a 50% signal here in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Since the digital distribution, the signal had been coming in at a solid 0%.



Still can't get it.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18043282
> 
> 
> How do you know? Is there a link? Will it be replaced with something good? Or just gone tia



No idea what (if anything) it will be replaced with. Hopefully nothing. Should be disappearing in less than an hour.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18044144
> 
> 
> No idea what (if anything) it will be replaced with. Hopefully nothing. Should be disappearing in less than an hour.
> 
> 
> - Trip



And it's gone. But the bandwidth is still being allocated as of this post.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18043451
> 
> 
> yes about time they take that crap off



The crapp for mortal men - blessings of God for the Children of God

and viceversa


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18044518
> 
> 
> And it's gone. But the bandwidth is still being allocated as of this post.



allocated because something new or no time to do the change yet??


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18048414
> 
> 
> allocated because something new or no time to do the change yet??



i believe they are devoting the bandwith to mobile services. ion is in bankruptcy and looking for other sources of revenue. google "ion mobile video"


----------



## SnellKrell

Ion has been trying to extricate itself from deals made by the former owner - Bud Paxson!


His "vision" for network was very different from the current management's.


----------



## panlop

Anyone else seeing major improvements on WABC? As of midnight last night I started actually getting some reception of it where before I couldn't get any lock no matter what I did. I always used to get a high SS, but no lock ever (which I assume means multipath). And no, the building directly across the street from my 0.5th story apartment (where the antenna is) was not demolished overnight. I checked.


Did I win the reception lottery or did something change with their broadcast finally?


Attached is a graph from the past 48 hours. SNQ is still a lot lower than everything else, and I'm seeing errors in the stream. But it's a start.


----------



## SnellKrell

No discernable difference in my reception of 7 and, as of yet, power increase hasn't been approved.


I think you may well have won "the reception lottery."


Enjoy it while it lasts!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18049602
> 
> 
> Ion has been trying to extricate itself from deals made by the former owner - Bud Paxson!
> 
> 
> His "vision" for network was very different from the current management's.



What is the vision of current management? Would a movie sub be in the works? What have you heard please


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *panlop* /forum/post/18049872
> 
> 
> Anyone else seeing major improvements on WABC? As of midnight last night I started actually getting some reception of it where before I couldn't get any lock no matter what I did. I always used to get a high SS, but no lock ever (which I assume means multipath). And no, the building directly across the street from my 0.5th story apartment (where the antenna is) was not demolished overnight. I checked.
> 
> 
> Did I win the reception lottery or did something change with their broadcast finally?
> 
> 
> Attached is a graph from the past 48 hours. SNQ is still a lot lower than everything else, and I'm seeing errors in the stream. But it's a start.



Just noticed that the applications for power increases by WABC, WNJB and WGAL have all been approved.


WABC is to have an intermediate increase from 11.69kW to 17.0kW.


As I mentioned previously, I haven't noticed any change in my reception.


I believe that WNJB first has to do some work on its facilities before other stations are able to increase their power.


At least we're moving ahead.


----------



## reddice

I don't care about ION because I can't get it. I was able to get it weak during the holidays but now nothing.


Glad WABC is increasing power even though it is my strongest VHF channel.


----------



## panlop




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18052000
> 
> 
> Just noticed that the applications for power increases by WABC, WNJB and WGAL have all been approved.



Interesting, thanks for the update.


----------



## SemiChemE

Does anybody know what changes are in store for WNET or when they might occur? According to tvfool.com, there are "pending applications", which will reduce my signal from the current -106.7 dBm to -108.8dBm. Since WNET is only barely watchable, as is, any reduction will probably drop me over the cliff.


Of course, at -106.7dBM, it's pretty amazing that I get WNET at all. Even more surprising, is that I can't get WNYA-DT (also on VHF 13), which should be much stronger at -98.2 dBm. Even WNYT (on VHF-12) at -68.4 dBm is pretty much unwatchable. I guess you can't really trust those tvfool.com propagation models.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* /forum/post/18054816
> 
> 
> Does anybody know what changes are in store for WNET or when they might occur? According to tvfool.com, there are "pending applications", which will reduce my signal from the current -106.7 dBm to -108.8dBm. Since WNET is only barely watchable, as is, any reduction will probably drop me over the cliff.
> 
> 
> Of course, at -106.7dBM, it's pretty amazing that I get WNET at all. Even more surprising, is that I can't get WNYA-DT (also on VHF 13), which should be much stronger at -98.2 dBm. Even WNYT (on VHF-12) at -68.4 dBm is pretty much unwatchable. I guess you can't really trust those tvfool.com propagation models.



I cannot find any changes for which WNET has applied.


There have been firings at 13 and 21, can't see WNET spending money at this time.


----------



## Trip in VA

The pending application is for the move to the top of 1WTC, should that ever get built.


- Trip


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *panlop* /forum/post/18049872
> 
> 
> Anyone else seeing major improvements on WABC?
> 
> Did I win the reception lottery or did something change with their broadcast finally?


 Attachment 165785 

Still dead as a door nail here.....


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/18057642
> 
> Attachment 165785
> 
> Still dead as a door nail here.....



30 minutes later , lightly snowing, and the signal improves...

Strange..

Attachment 165788


----------



## AloEuro

ABC7- is going bonkers, 60 pts fluctuation ? and from 80 able to go down to zero-0,

lot's of work with Ant. breaks the signals for other ch.

ION31- gives fluctuation of 10/15-20 pts from 40's down to 20 holding steady signal,

no problema senor.


----------



## jaypb

Did anyone watching LOST OTA experience any dropouts at around the 1:21 mark of the 2 hour season premiere? I'm not sure if the issue was with D*'s NYC ABC feed, with the network signal or with my setup.


My D* DVR (2 of them as a matter of fact) both had dropouts at the exact same moment on the D* HD feed.


I didn't want to record the premier on WABC OTA because of the snowy weather last night...but was irritated when the damn audio/video glitched/froze at the 1:21 mark on BOTH D* HD HR2x's last night.


----------



## MuDvAyNe

Hello everyone,


I am new to the game of OTA antenna's.


I recently purchased a Trek DTVa Indoor Amplified High-Definition Antenna for Off-Air HDTV Reception. At the moment I am regretting it. Any slight movement and I lose the signal. So far I have been able to pick up CBS, NBC, FOX, MY 9 and some Spanish channels. Reading some of the posts on these forums it seems like it is almost impossible to pick up ABC. How about PIX? I was able to get a very weak signal on PIX but it knocked out all of my other channels. I live in an area where the houses around me are no more than three stories. Would a different antenna be able to pick up more channels? My antenna is close to the tv but at the same time is not that far from the window. Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MuDvAyNe* /forum/post/18066163
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> I am new to the game of OTA antenna's.
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a Trek DTVa Indoor Amplified High-Definition Antenna for Off-Air HDTV Reception. At the moment I am regretting it. Any slight movement and I lose the signal. So far I have been able to pick up CBS, NBC, FOX, MY 9 and some Spanish channels. Reading some of the posts on these forums it seems like it is almost impossible to pick up ABC. How about PIX? I was able to get a very weak signal on PIX but it knocked out all of my other channels. I live in an area where the houses around me are no more than three stories. Would a different antenna be able to pick up more channels? My antenna is close to the tv but at the same time is not that far from the window. Any advice is appreciated.



Well we need some info to help you. go to www.tvfool.com and enter the info needed. Save the picture file and uploaded it here or at www.tinypic.com . We need to see how far you are away from ESB ect.


What Burrow are you in?


I love the terk-55. My aunt gets all the major stations. 33 including subs. From Queens. This includes ABC and PIX. With all strong signals. One person here tried it and it did not work for him. See it is all trial and error


The Trek DTVa Indoor Amplified High-Definition Antenna for Off-Air HDTV Reception is an antenna that needs exact direction. Seems people who live in Manhattan. Use this and get the best results. Other areas no so much. I personally do not like it. To me it looks and acts cheap. For others it works well.


I also got same results from the Clear Stream C2 as I did from the terk-55


The people here are great at direction and help, but bottom line is that Antenna's is more of an Art form then science. imo And what works for me might not work for you. You need to try many different antennas


Good Luck


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18051519
> 
> 
> What is the vision of current management? Would a movie sub be in the works? What have you heard please



I have no specific information about Ion's management's plans. The only contribution I can make is to state the obvious - Ion wants to be a secular network by not renewing Bud Paxson's previous deals; build ratings and make more money in these troubled economic times.


Ion is consistently out-rated by top-rated cable networks - therefore, it's not considered a must buy network by advertisers.


Probably Ion's greatest asset is its 82 owned OTA stations (I think that's the latest figure). The spectrum inhabited by Ion owned stations has a great value. Therefore, I'm sure Ion is very interested to see what Washington has planned for television's spectrum.


----------



## alchu

Hi guys,


I've been running digital OTA in Rego Park, Queens for the past 8 or so months and have constantly been having issues with CBS, NBC and PBS. CBS is generally clipped at all times, sometimes no signal at all. NBC is a bit more consistent but sometimes i go through periods of it being out completely (most recently a few weeks ago, no signal for a week or so). PBS has its good days and bad days.


In Queens, using an RCA ANT 3036W on my two story roof pointed in the general direction of the empire state building. Signal is split in two, one to a dtv tuner, the other to my hd set.


How are you guys measuring signal strength and determining the proper direction of the antenna? I feel as though I really shouldn't have any issues given my proximity. Plus, why the issues with those two channels and not Fox, ABC and the others?


I have tried a motorola BDA100 signal booster, which generally makes things worse.


Is this a matter of trying different antennae or just fooling with the direction?


Thanks all!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alchu* /forum/post/18067742
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> I've been running digital OTA in Rego Park, Queens for the past 8 or so months and have constantly been having issues with CBS, NBC and PBS. CBS is generally clipped at all times, sometimes no signal at all. NBC is a bit more consistent but sometimes i go through periods of it being out completely (most recently a few weeks ago, no signal for a week or so). PBS has its good days and bad days.
> 
> 
> In Queens, using an RCA ANT 3036W on my two story roof pointed in the general direction of the empire state building. Signal is split in two, one to a dtv tuner, the other to my hd set.
> 
> 
> How are you guys measuring signal strength and determining the proper direction of the antenna? I feel as though I really shouldn't have any issues given my proximity. Plus, why the issues with those two channels and not Fox, ABC and the others?
> 
> 
> I have tried a motorola BDA100 signal booster, which generally makes things worse.
> 
> 
> Is this a matter of trying different antennae or just fooling with the direction?
> 
> 
> Thanks all!



You should have no problems with that antenna.

First off, are you using RG6 cable? Second, try eliminating the splitter and just go with one cable directly into a TV. See if it improves. If you have to, adjust the antenna. Make sure its pointed correctly, with the long skinny boom pointing towards ESB, and the large V-elements should be pointing opposite the ESB.


----------



## alchu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18068038
> 
> 
> You should have no problems with that antenna.
> 
> First off, are you using RG6 cable? Second, try eliminating the splitter and just go with one cable directly into a TV. See if it improves. If you have to, adjust the antenna. Make sure its pointed correctly, with the long skinny boom pointing towards ESB, and the large V-elements should be pointing opposite the ESB.




Thanks


Yes, using RG6, skinny boom pointed a little north of east*.*


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jaypb* /forum/post/18062451
> 
> 
> Did anyone watching LOST OTA experience any dropouts at around the 1:21 mark of the 2 hour season premiere? I'm not sure if the issue was with D*'s NYC ABC feed, with the network signal or with my setup.
> 
> 
> My D* DVR (2 of them as a matter of fact) both had dropouts at the exact same moment on the D* HD feed.
> 
> 
> I didn't want to record the premier on WABC OTA because of the snowy weather last night...but was irritated when the damn audio/video glitched/froze at the 1:21 mark on BOTH D* HD HR2x's last night.



I think it was a technical glitch on ABCs end. initially I also thought that.. may be ABC signals are getting worse that moment because of the snowy weather, which was little unexpected because I get ABC solid. Next day I checked the "Lost" thread (in HDTV programming). Other people have also reported the same issue. I have recorded it using 7MC. Haven't checked out the recording though. Anyway, pixellations were bearable in OTA.


----------



## MuDvAyNe

Thanks for the quick reply. I live in Brooklyn. Here is the picture you requested. I hope I did it right.


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alchu* /forum/post/18068154
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Yes, using RG6, skinny boom pointed a little north of east.
> 
> 
> I don't have a clear view to the ESB, there are a few apartment buildings in the way about .5 miles from my house.



Looks like you need to have the skinny end pointing a little north of *west*. With that antenna, you should have _plenty_ of signal.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Loudin* /forum/post/18072235
> 
> 
> Looks like you need to have the skinny end pointing a little north of *west*. With that antenna, you should have _plenty_ of signal.



Yes, exactly. Most people make the mistake of pointing the antenna the opposite of what it should be.


----------



## MuDvAyNe

Using the chart on TVfool for my area I was actually able to finally pick up ABC, but lost My9HD in the process. I still can not seem to ever get a lock on PIX to save my life.


----------



## reddice

I watched Lost OTA and on the Dish Network HD feed. Switching between the two. I did not notice it but maybe I was watching it on Dish Network at the time.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MuDvAyNe* /forum/post/18066163
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> I am new to the game of OTA antenna's.
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a Trek DTVa Indoor Amplified High-Definition Antenna for Off-Air HDTV Reception. At the moment I am regretting it. Any slight movement and I lose the signal. So far I have been able to pick up CBS, NBC, FOX, MY 9 and some Spanish channels. Reading some of the posts on these forums it seems like it is almost impossible to pick up ABC. How about PIX? I was able to get a very weak signal on PIX but it knocked out all of my other channels. I live in an area where the houses around me are no more than three stories. Would a different antenna be able to pick up more channels? My antenna is close to the tv but at the same time is not that far from the window. Any advice is appreciated.



I seems to me that lot's guys buy The (Star) Trek related equipment, which is indication that many of you gentlemen are UFO buffs, unfortunately The (Star) Trek Ant. are not (Star) Trek technology except in name, exceptions here and there.

Come down on earth and be like us the rabbit with 2ears and bow,Alo


----------



## MuDvAyNe

So your saying something like this would work better than the Trek??

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...62017#inTheBox


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MuDvAyNe* /forum/post/18083548
> 
> 
> So your saying something like this would work better than the Trek??
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...62017#inTheBox



More than year ago Outdoor Roof Antena gave me 16 ch., 2RabbitEarsBow

Ant. adding Ion31-4 gave me 20ch.

Now combination of it, excluding 39(5-8subs) minus double count 5,9, 41/68 ch.s as single it is well over 30ch.

Hook up as many RabbitAnt.s on 4-1 splitter as much you can, have coax.

of the Rabbit connected to Conv.box or DigitalTV, most importantly you must get the ch.into memory of TV or Conv.box, after search of memory build up change hook up for more ch., play with it


----------



## AloEuro

I forgot,don't throw away $ for the RS display, I see lot's of AnalogTV still with the

Ant. on it on streets, dismount it and use that


----------



## atripps

Dear fellow nuyorkers,


Seeking your help in picking the right indoor antenna. I recently quit cable and am getting my TV fix purely through hulu and such. Am on the 6th floor of a mid-rise apartment in then UES (East 90s).


Am attaching results from TVFool.com and AntennaWeb.org. Help!!


cheers.


----------



## nycdigital09

get a terk 1 indoor antenna is great little antenna it cost around $10. you get a clear reception on HD im in queens i get most of tv channels pretty clear


----------



## SnellKrell

The Terk 1 is a VHF antenna good for only 3 channels in our area - WABC, WPIX and WNET.


The Terk antenna to use is the HDTVi - which is an unamplified VHF/UHF antenna.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18043691
> 
> 
> Still can't get it.



Trust me when i say Your not missing much


----------



## alchu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Loudin* /forum/post/18072235
> 
> 
> Looks like you need to have the skinny end pointing a little north of *west*. With that antenna, you should have _plenty_ of signal.



My mistake - I should have re-read my reply, I stated the opposite of reality











My antenna has a skinny end and a fat end, like this photo here:











the left side of the antenna in this photo is what i'm referring to as the skinny end, with the fat end on the right.


The skinny end of my antenna is pointing a few degrees north of WEST.


I don't get why im getting dropouts... and only on CBS and NBC. Could it be a grounding issue? cable issue?


----------



## Packeteers

I'm in a shallow valley in N.Queens NY

and get great NY/NJ station reception

using a 5' long Yagi style UHF antenna.


when I spin that antenna in the opposite

direction, I'm able to get a few CN stations,

so I'd like to get a second Yagi for that.

_no, I don't want to use a rotator/rotor_


my plan is to mount the second Yagi on the

same pole as the first, and wire them together

into the same return line using a coax combiner.


I already bought the appropriate Yagi and Combiner,

I just want advice on positioning the two Yagi's so

their reception does not interfere with each other.

_the same stations are not receivable by both Yagi's_


for example;

can I put them end to end like;
*-+++>-|--|*
*|-*


----------



## MuDvAyNe

I returned the Terk and got the RadioShack HDTV/FM Antenna. I am able to pick up ABC, PBS, ION, WNYE now. I still for the love of me can not get PIX. Does anyone here get PIX??


----------



## SnellKrell

Where is here?


What's your location?


How far from Empire State Building?


Do you have line-of-sight to the Empire State Building?


If not, what things are blocking you?


Apartment or house?


Where you have your antenna (indoor or outdoor?) in which direction do your windows face?


As you can now see, there are so many variables!


----------



## MuDvAyNe

What's your location? Brooklyn


How far from Empire State Building? 9.1m


Do you have line-of-sight to the Empire State Building? Not sure but no tall buildings around me


If not, what things are blocking you? Nothing


Apartment or house? House, first floor of a 3 story home


Where you have your antenna (indoor or outdoor?) in which direction do your windows face? indoor antenna, window faces east


As you can now see, there are so many variables!


I know there are many variable but when I am able to pick up every local except one it's a little confusing!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alchu* /forum/post/18100511
> 
> 
> My mistake - I should have re-read my reply, I stated the opposite of reality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My antenna has a skinny end and a fat end, like this photo here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the left side of the antenna in this photo is what i'm referring to as the skinny end, with the fat end on the right.
> 
> 
> The skinny end of my antenna is pointing a few degrees north of WEST.
> 
> 
> I don't get why im getting dropouts... and only on CBS and NBC. Could it be a grounding issue? cable issue?



Are you using RG6 cable that is no more then 100 feet in length?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MuDvAyNe* /forum/post/18104152
> 
> 
> I returned the Terk and got the RadioShack HDTV/FM Antenna. I am able to pick up ABC, PBS, ION, WNYE now. I still for the love of me can not get PIX. Does anyone here get PIX??



Is this the antenna?
http://www.amazon.com/Antenna-hdtv-H.../dp/B001BU1DBS 


If so you do not seem to get the point. People buy cheap antenna's. Then ask why I can not get this or that station. The Idea is not to be cheap here. I spent $100 over 10 years ago on the terk 55 and It only after trying every other cheap antenna at that time. We get every major station with strong signal. Of course signal got better when Rg6 cable was used. The terk 55 can be got for much less now on amazon. The clearstream or DB2 are some of the best indoor/outdoor antenna's around. DB2 is cheap but good. Of course it is bad with VHS signals but from online friends experience since you are only 9 miles away. It should not be a problem. The C2 worked great from 7 miles away. Even with VHS. But the same as the terk 55 for me. So I returned it


When you changed antenna's from a directional antenna (works great in the city) to the RS which is not directional. You got more stations. So the RS is better then that terk you had. So it follows that if you try the db2, clearstream C2, or Terk- 55 (from experience) You should get all the stations. Like us Up to 33 channels with subs


I would never buy a Radioshack anything. Bad products.


There is a very good antenna thread that shows all the good antennas in a real world setting.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779


----------



## MuDvAyNe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18105766
> 
> 
> Is this the antenna?
> http://www.amazon.com/Antenna-hdtv-H.../dp/B001BU1DBS
> 
> 
> If so you do not seem to get the point. People buy cheap antenna's. Then ask why I can not get this or that station. The Idea is not to be cheap here. I spent $100 over 10 years ago on the terk 55 and It only after trying every other cheap antenna at that time. We get every major station with strong signal. Of course signal got better when Rg6 cable was used. The terk 55 can be got for much less now on amazon. The clearstream or DB2 are some of the best indoor/outdoor antenna's around. DB2 is cheap but good. Of course it is bad with VHS signals but from online friends experience since you are only 9 miles away. It should not be a problem. The C2 worked great from 7 miles away. Even with VHS. But the same as the terk 55 for me. So I returned it
> 
> 
> When you changed antenna's from a directional antenna (works great in the city) to the RS which is not directional. You got more stations. So the RS is better then that terk you had. So it follows that if you try the db2, clearstream C2, or Terk- 55 (from experience) You should get all the stations. Like us Up to 33 channels with subs
> 
> 
> I would never buy a Radioshack anything. Bad products.
> 
> 
> There is a very good antenna thread that shows all the good antennas in a real world setting.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779



The thing is, if I was pointing the Terk in the right direction why was it not picking up more than 8 channels? A cheaper RS antenna is able to pick up a lot more channels. I can live without getting PIX, but I was just curious as to why it seems hard to pull in that specific channel.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MuDvAyNe* /forum/post/18106082
> 
> 
> The thing is, if I was pointing the Terk in the right direction why was it not picking up more than 8 channels? A cheaper RS antenna is able to pick up a lot more channels. I can live without getting PIX, but I was just curious as to why it seems hard to pull in that specific channel.



The terk is directional (pinpoint) and the RS is not. That simple. Different insides. They work differently. You might have signals bouncing off of buildings ect. So you point in one area and the signal for another channels is coming from a slightly different area. The terk works really well in the City I heard. If I was living were you were. I would try one of the 3 I mentioned. The C2 has a very WIDE beam. Meaning it is not directional and ANY signal within 45 degrees of where you point. Will be picked up. It is clear you need a better antenna then you got.


Are you using rg6 cable?


How many total channels including subs?


Is money the issue?





I guess what is frustrating is that I was in your exact position and tried over 15 antennas. I know what worked and what does not. I even had one that looked like a satellite dish. lol



PS Read that antenna thread. You will then understand


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alchu* /forum/post/18100511
> 
> 
> My mistake - I should have re-read my reply, I stated the opposite of reality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My antenna has a skinny end and a fat end, like this photo here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the left side of the antenna in this photo is what i'm referring to as the skinny end, with the fat end on the right.
> 
> 
> The skinny end of my antenna is pointing a few degrees north of WEST.
> 
> 
> I don't get why im getting dropouts... and only on CBS and NBC. Could it be a grounding issue? cable issue?



Try moving the antenna an inch either way. It could make a difference. Have someone tell you if the reception gets better or worse.

Obviously don't do it today in the snowstorm.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alchu* /forum/post/18100511
> 
> 
> I don't get why im getting dropouts... and only on CBS and NBC. Could it be a grounding issue? cable issue?



Since it is happening on RF 28 & 33, the most likely culprit would seem to be multi-path, affecting those frequencies. Is WPXN ok?


If so, raising and lowering the antenna or turning it until you find a sweet spot is something to try. However, this could affect other channels, so it may take a good deal of trial and error.


Another possibility is too much signal. The easiest way to check for that is to add attenuators or additional splitters to see if the signal improves or degrades.


What about the balun on the antenna? It may need to be replaced. Cabling is a concern as well. Check for damage, corrosion, etc. or replace.


Do you have a rabbit ear/loop antenna around? While not ideal, they can be useful in checking for signal sweet spots.


What tuner(s) (TV/CECB/STB) are you using?


----------



## reddice

By the way I have been seeing a lot of those portable digital TV's in the newspaper ads. How are they? Reception is probably terrible because digital is harder to pick up. If you move the antenna just a bit you lose reception. Anyone have one to conform this?


----------



## MuDvAyNe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18106323
> 
> 
> The terk is directional (pinpoint) and the RS is not. That simple. Different insides. They work differently. You might have signals bouncing off of buildings ect. So you point in one area and the signal for another channels is coming from a slightly different area. The terk works really well in the City I heard. If I was living were you were. I would try one of the 3 I mentioned. The C2 has a very WIDE beam. Meaning it is not directional and ANY signal within 45 degrees of where you point. Will be picked up. It is clear you need a better antenna then you got.
> 
> 
> Are you using rg6 cable?
> 
> 
> How many total channels including subs?
> 
> 
> Is money the issue?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess what is frustrating is that I was in your exact position and tried over 15 antennas. I know what worked and what does not. I even had one that looked like a satellite dish. lol
> 
> 
> 
> PS Read that antenna thread. You will then understand



Are you using rg6 cable? Yes


How many total channels including subs? 24, but two of the PBS channels do not work, so 22 I would say


Is money the issue? At the moment yes.


----------



## n2ubp

WABC 7 is now producing a solid signal for me in Middletown, Orange County, NY


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MuDvAyNe* /forum/post/18113252
> 
> 
> Are you using rg6 cable? Yes
> 
> 
> How many total channels including subs? 24, but two of the PBS channels do not work, so 22 I would say
> 
> 
> Is money the issue? At the moment yes.



Ok understood. It is hard out there. Well then If it was me and I could not Spend $60. I would look into the DB2 Of course you need to get a cheap stick Cut at home depot (cut for free) Summit source is cheapest I see now at $21. Same price as that Raido shack. I do remember when people here first told me about it. It was $13. So I guess you could shop around on internet. Is it ugly? Yes it is. Does it work great. Yes it does. Just hide it behind furniture. Putting it in a window can be worse. Many people do not know that. The Pros on here do not always recommend window placement. I have ours next to a window on the same wall facing ESB.


Or just save up the $60. And live with what you have now

http://www.summitsource.com/product_...oducts_id=8964 

http://www.google.com/products/catal...wAg#ps-sellers 

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories


----------



## AloEuro

ION31-1.2.3. is becoming movie ch. thru week it is usually on 31-3 1or2 prime time features, but on weekend it is movie ch. on 31-1

Till 3pm it is all paid infomercial programs (so you can go to church), and from 3-11pm 8 hours in 2hours intervals 4 full feature movies, last time it was Matrix trilogy.


----------



## AloEuro

" I would never buy a Radioshack anything. Bad products." but excellent Money back

guarantine, bought 15.oo$ DVIAdapter, return in wk at different locale, no question asked


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18123763
> 
> 
> ION31-1.2.3. is becoming movie ch. thru week it is usually on 31-3 1or2 prime time features, but on weekend it is movie ch. on 31-1
> 
> Till 3pm it is all paid infomercial programs (so you can go to church), and from 3-11pm 8 hours in 2hours intervals 4 full feature movies, last time it was Matrix trilogy.



What do you mean becoming a movie channel?


Never mind I asked. Movies started on 31.3 2 weeks ago. Approx


----------



## AloEuro

wPIX11-1.2.3. still hard time to get? I've noticed that the subs -2Estrella and -3LATV

at 704x480i 30hz have stronger signal, less fluctuation than the primary 11-1 1920x1080i

at 30 hz.

The Q is It is in TV memory? Regardless of that, if the primary 11-1 does not show up,

Enter 11-2 or 11-3 and then Add scan


----------



## AloEuro

I see, you have got ION31 2wks ago, enjoy.


----------



## icemannyr

I did a scan with my tuner and noticed it found WASA-LD. Any idea if they plan to broadcast anything other than infomercials?

I still can't tune in WABC-DT in Northern Bergen County, NJ.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18129489
> 
> 
> wPIX11-1.2.3. still hard time to get? I've noticed that the subs -2Estrella and -3LATV
> 
> at 704x480i 30hz have stronger signal, less fluctuation than the primary 11-1 1920x1080i
> 
> at 30 hz.
> 
> The Q is It is in TV memory? Regardless of that, if the primary 11-1 does not show up,
> 
> Enter 11-2 or 11-3 and then Add scan



Strange. I thought that the main station and ALL their subs would have the SAME signal. It does for me


----------



## a72849

Most NY and NNJ stations are now transmitting time one hour too fast today. Channel 31 is the most wrong at one hour and 37 minutes fast. Only channels 5 and 63 are correct. I guess engineers want to get Valentine's Day over with faster.


----------



## nycdigital09

I've noticed cbs2 signal to be breaking up, alot lately. Are they doing any headend maintenance work, cos It was 1 of my better stations. Now It breaks up or pixels every 2,3 seconds. I have roof antenna with preamp on it.


----------



## MTVhike

After a few months of playing around, I mounted a Winegard HD9095 UHF and a Winegard YA713 Highband VHF on a 20 foot pole on my back deck. A CM7777 antenna is also used. When this system is pointed toward the ESB, I get the following performance:

CBS 2 or 3 (RF 33 from NY or CT or RF 22 from LI) never anything

NBC 4 from NYC - sometimes OK, frequentlyl nothing; NBC 31 from CT, better (if I turn the antenna N, then it gets very good, but I am listing only performance with the antennas pointed SW)

FOX 5 from NYC - sometimes useable, but not usually

WOR 9 from NYC - rarely useable

(I know these are all UHF stations)

ABC from NYC (RF 7) 100%, even with the 7777 removed

PIX from NYC (RF 11) 100%, even with the 7777 removed

WNET from NYC (RF 13) 100%, even with the 7777 removed

WLIW 21 from LI (RF 21) 100% with the 7777, 60% without

Channel 25 from ESB - same as WLIW

Channels 24, 49 from ct - useable with the 7777, nothing without

WNJN from NJ - sometimes excellent with the 7777, nothing without


My questrions: I can raise the antenna to my roof, about feet 15 higher (but not until spring); should I do so? (If I do, I won't be able to manually rotate the mast to get better CT or eastern LI better).

The antennas are pointing to trees about 50 feet away - how will that affect the signal when they leaf out? These trees are about 100 feet tall!

Should I recable the system so the 7777 is not used for VHF - it doesn't appear to be necessary, but how do I combine the signals with minimum loss, and I would then have two cables.


I have about 100 feet of RG6. I also have a cheap RS distribution amp, which doesn't appear to be either good or bad, except that it works as a splitter. I did these tests without it.


Another thing, usually the main WNET and WLIW channels appear as 13.3 or 21.3. They has the same content as 13.1 and 21.1 and, if I type in 13.3 or 21.3, I get the correct .3 subchannel.


Thanks,


Mike


----------



## KML-224

NBC from Connecticut was analog channel 30. WVIT-DT's digital is on channel 35. Assuming that your "31" isn't the ION station, digital 31 in Connecticut is for WTIC-DT (FOX).


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/18136946
> 
> 
> NBC from Connecticut was analog channel 30. WVIT-DT's digital is on channel 35. Assuming that your "31" isn't the ION station, digital 31 in Connecticut is for WTIC-DT (FOX).



Thanks, mea culpa. I meant WVIT-30 (35); I also sometimes get WTIC and watch it when I can't get 5.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18136469
> 
> 
> I've noticed cbs2 signal to be breaking up, alot lately. Are they doing any headend maintenance work, cos It was 1 of my better stations. Now It breaks up or pixels every 2,3 seconds. I have roof antenna with preamp on it.



if you're in western queens with a roof antenna, u dont need a preamp to get cbs. you're overdriving the signal. there is such thing as too much signal.


----------



## reddice

It seems that WNJN Channel 50 is been really strong for me lately the past few months. I peaked it at 80. I am glad I am getting it strong since WNJB never bothered to move to 4 Times Square. It seems like I get channels from NJ stronger. Don't get me started on Channel 66 but even Channel 63 weak I am able to get unlike Channel 31 which now I can't even peak in the 20's. Pathetic that they must be broadcasting very weak.


Also don't trust TV fool as my results I get stations further away they show in the yellow stronger and channels in the green like Channel 31 and 41 I can't get even if my life depended on it. I don't use TV Joke Fool at all. I just point the antenna where I can get the best reception. At least Channel 11 has been watchable in the mid to high 50's but it does not break up much.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18139512
> 
> 
> I don't use TV Joke Fool at all.



No prediction model can predict multipath due to buildings at this point in time. As many have stated again and again, your problems are likely not signal strength and are instead multipath problems. The signals that are further away have weaker reflections as well and thus are easier to receive. I suspect a spectrum analyzer would reveal very vicious multipath, not a lack of strength.


In most of the rest of the country, TV Fool is spot on and very accurate.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

[]if you're in western queens with a roof antenna, u dont need a preamp to get cbs. you're overdriving the signal. there is such thing as too much signal.]


I use the hdp269 low gain preamplifer (12db) w/ high input. I have buildings across the street from my house, this is one of the reasons i cant receive wnjn ch 51 from nj. I get most of local channels plus connecticut pbs ch 49 with a uhf yagi antenna, including all my vhf channels are close 100%. I'm sure cb2 is not overdriven cos i was getting it excellent for as long I've had this setup.


----------



## LenL

I know there are a lot of fans of TVFOOL but I have found this government website to be more accurate and useful. Also more fun to play with. Try it you'll like it....not sure how many of you know about this one:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18140536
> 
> 
> I know there are a lot of fans of TVFOOL but I have found this government website to be more accurate and useful. Also more fun to play with. Try it you'll like it....not sure how many of you know about this one:
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/



I'd seen it before but there seem to be a number of stations missing from it. I just searched my local area again to see if it'd been fixed, but it has not; my ABC and FOX stations still are not listed in the results.


- Trip


----------



## yobiworld

WNYE should add more sub channels since they have to many programs on one channel


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18139992
> 
> 
> No prediction model can predict multipath due to buildings at this point in time. As many have stated again and again, your problems are likely not signal strength and are instead multipath problems. The signals that are further away have weaker reflections as well and thus are easier to receive. I suspect a spectrum analyzer would reveal very vicious multipath, not a lack of strength.
> 
> 
> In most of the rest of the country, TV Fool is spot on and very accurate.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I think you might be right. See I have my Terk HDTVa antenna pointing west towards Long Island but it gives me the best reception for the NYC and NJ locals. The thing is that there is a apartment building blocking the view west. My signal probably bounces off that building toward the ESB and NJ.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18142179
> 
> 
> I think you might be right. See I have my Terk HDTVa antenna pointing west towards Long Island but it gives me the best reception for the NYC and NJ locals. The thing is that there is a apartment building blocking the view west. My signal probably bounces off that building toward the ESB and NJ.



Just out of curiosity. The pointy side of the antenna is facing 180 degrees away from the area you want. In other word the FAT end is toward NYC


It is a common mistake to think the thin pointy end is what you aim. It is the fat end.


Just curious if you made that error?


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18144425
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity. The pointy side of the antenna is facing 180 degrees away from the area you want. In other word the FAT end is toward NYC
> 
> 
> It is a common mistake to think the thin pointy end is what you aim. It is the fat end.
> 
> 
> Just curious if you made that error?



Uh, the "skinny" end is the FRONT, the "fat" end is the BACK.


Point the "skinny" FRONT end towards the signal source.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18140536
> 
> 
> I know there are a lot of fans of TVFOOL but I have found this government website to be more accurate and useful. Also more fun to play with. Try it you'll like it....not sure how many of you know about this one:
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/



That website is pretty good, but you should check out TVfool's map with Google Earth and bit Torrent client program, and I've used it for upstate NY where I have a summer home, and its amazing how it takes into account the mountains for reception. In NYC, its been pretty accurate too, especially on the North Shore of Long Island where there are a lot of hills and plateau's.


----------



## SnellKrell

When you live in a high rise, no line-of-sight because you're surrounded by taller

buildings, trying to deal with multipath - not one of these Websites bears any reality -

totally useless!


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18140536
> 
> 
> I know there are a lot of fans of TVFOOL but I have found this government website to be more accurate and useful. Also more fun to play with. Try it you'll like it....not sure how many of you know about this one:
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/



Two advantages for TVFool over the FCC's site:


1) TVFool lets you specify receive antenna height, which is very important in determining received signal levels. The FCC's site uses 30 feet above ground, as this is the height assumed for allocation purposes.


2) TVFool presents more details as to why it calculated the results it did.


If you set antenna height to 30 in TVFool, then you should get the same results as with the FCC's site.


----------



## rob316

Heys guys I am kind of new to the OTA thing but I have a couple questions. I currently have a Haupaugge 950Q connected to my pc which is great but I am having a couple of issues. I first bough an Rat Shack UHF/VHF antenna with amp well I could only get 2,4,5,9 thats it. So I read that the Terk HDTVA was pretty good in picking up VHF since ABC NY is still on VHF band. So I picked up the Terk and with a little adjusting I was able to pick up cbs, nbc, fox, abc, and channel 9, but for the life of me I cannot pick up 11,13. I went to antennaweb.org site and 11 and 13 point to the same area as cbs, nbc. Any advice or input would be appreciated.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rob316* /forum/post/18146304
> 
> 
> Heys guys I am kind of new to the OTA thing but I have a couple questions. I currently have a Haupaugge 950Q connected to my pc which is great but I am having a couple of issues. I first bough an Rat Shack UHF/VHF antenna with amp well I could only get 2,4,5,9 thats it. So I read that the Terk HDTVA was pretty good in picking up VHF since ABC NY is still on VHF band. So I picked up the Terk and with a little adjusting I was able to pick up cbs, nbc, fox, abc, and channel 9, but for the life of me I cannot pick up 11,13. I went to antennaweb.org site and 11 and 13 point to the same area as cbs, nbc. Any advice or input would be appreciated.



How far away from the towers are you?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Loudin* /forum/post/18146095
> 
> 
> Two advantages for TVFool over the FCC's site:
> 
> 
> 1) TVFool lets you specify receive antenna height, which is very important in determining received signal levels. The FCC's site uses 30 feet above ground, as this is the height assumed for allocation purposes.
> 
> 
> 2) TVFool presents more details as to why it calculated the results it did.
> 
> 
> If you set antenna height to 30 in TVFool, then you should get the same results as with the FCC's site.



Actually the FCC site does a much better job with the actual terrain and knows I am on the down side of a hill away from the signal and so gives me much more accurate results than TVFOOL. According to TV fool I get a lot of stations well and that is NOT the case. I also checked as a reference a friend who is about 5 miles further west and has a better line of site and his results are better than mine and the FCC site shows that.


As far as I have tested the FCC site is better. At least for us folks out of NY City and surrounded by buildings.


----------



## rob316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18146481
> 
> 
> How far away from the towers are you?



According to antennaweb no more than 17 miles from the towers.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18146490
> 
> 
> Actually the FCC site does a much better job with the actual terrain and knows I am on the down side of a hill away from the signal and so gives me much more accurate results than TVFOOL. According to TV fool I get a lot of stations well and that is NOT the case. I also checked as a reference a friend who is about 5 miles further west and has a better line of site and his results are better than mine and the FCC site shows that.
> 
> 
> As far as I have tested the FCC site is better. At least for us folks out of NY City and surrounded by buildings.



Actually it doesn't for the most part. In your case, just like a broken clock is right twice a day, it happened to hit the mark in your cases.


TVF uses a terrain averaging algorithm with 100 meter resolution. The FCC tool use a 1 km resolution.


Neither can accurately accurately account for severe terrain changes in the last several hundred yards.


----------



## SnellKrell

AntennaWeb is so incredibly lame and continues to misinform people!


I live less than 2 miles from the Empire State Building.


Some stations transmitting from the ESB are listed by AntennaWeb as being

1.7 miles from my location - OK, that's reasonable.


But, according to this idiotic site, WNJB in Montclair, NJ is only 1.4 miles from me. Hey, AntennaWeb, the station's planned move to 4TS never took place!


WCBS, WNBC and WPIX are listed as being a whopping 4.4 miles from my location. Maybe the old World Trade Center location????


And if that weren't weird enough, WABC is listed as .2 of a mile farther away at 4.6 miles, when, in reality, the station uses the very same transmitting antenna as WPIX (4.4 miles) and WNET (1.7 miles).


So, when I read of people relying on AntennaWeb, boy, do I take it with not a grain, but with a ton of salt!


----------



## rob316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18146481
> 
> 
> How far away from the towers are you?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18146730
> 
> 
> AntennaWeb is so incredibly lame and continues to misinform people!
> 
> 
> I live less than 2 miles from the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> Some stations transmitting from the ESB are listed by AntennaWeb as being
> 
> 1.7 miles from my location - OK, that's reasonable.
> 
> 
> But, according to this idiotic site, WNJB in Montclair, NJ is only 1.4 miles from me. Hey, AntennaWeb, the station's planned move to 4TS never took place!
> 
> 
> WCBS, WNBC and WPIX are listed as being a whopping 4.4 miles from my location. Maybe the old World Trade Center location????
> 
> 
> And if that weren't weird enough, WABC is listed as .2 of a mile farther away at 4.6 miles, when, in reality, the station uses the very same transmitting antenna as WPIX (4.4 miles) and WNET (1.7 miles).
> 
> 
> So, when I read of people relying on AntennaWeb, boy, do I take it with not a grain, but with a ton of salt!





Do you know of another good website I can use? Thanks


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rob316* /forum/post/18146537
> 
> 
> According to antennaweb no more than 17 miles from the towers.



Try putting the Terk outside or close to a window to see if you get the same results. You should have gotten 11 and 13 with the Radio Shack antenna if it was a UHF/VHF ( what model #?)


Just for the heck of it, hook up the antenna to a regular HDTV instead of your tuner card to see if you get the same results. Each tuner has its own sensitivity.


Are you using RG6? Any splitters involved?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/18144841
> 
> 
> Uh, the "skinny" end is the FRONT, the "fat" end is the BACK.
> 
> 
> Point the "skinny" FRONT end towards the signal source.



Wrong that is the common mistake in your antenna and ANY outdoor antenna. Ask around. Just trying to help ya


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18147625
> 
> 
> Wrong that is the common mistake in your antenna and ANY outdoor antenna. Ask around. Just trying to help ya



Are you joking with your smiley?


Someone needs help not incorrect information.


Here is a Web site that specifically talks about aiming a television antenna and in all of the examples, the narrower end (the active elements) is pointed at the transmitter.

http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/...na_aiming.html 


There are times when the best reception can be achieved by using a multipath, reflect signal. That is when you would not aim the narrower end toward the transmitter.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18147774
> 
> 
> Are you joking with your smiley?
> 
> 
> Someone needs help not incorrect information.
> 
> 
> Here is a Web site that specifically talks about aiming a television antenna and in all of the examples, the narrower end (the active elements) is pointed at the transmitter.
> 
> http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/...na_aiming.html
> 
> 
> There are times when the best reception can be achieved by using a multipath, reflect signal. That is when you would not aim the narrower end toward the transmitter.



I was told it was the fat end


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18147795
> 
> 
> I was told it was the fat end



You were told wrong. Whoever told you that needs to be ignored when it comes to antennas...


----------



## reddice

Here is my location from Google Earth. As you can see I have my antenna angled pointed west at the building.


----------



## rob316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18147548
> 
> 
> Try putting the Terk outside or close to a window to see if you get the same results. You should have gotten 11 and 13 with the Radio Shack antenna if it was a UHF/VHF ( what model #?)
> 
> 
> Just for the heck of it, hook up the antenna to a regular HDTV instead of your tuner card to see if you get the same results. Each tuner has its own sensitivity.
> 
> 
> Are you using RG6? Any splitters involved?



I already have the Terk pretty much on top of a book case next to a window. I also did hook up the Rdio Shack Antenna to a HDTV that was in the next room but not near a window same results but I did not get 7 ABC. Maybe I will take the Terk and hook it up to the HDTV to see. One more question I see here that people are talking about where to point the 2 antennas for VHF, I have the thick one pointing towards the ESB and thats when I get ABC but still not 11 or 13, I did get decent signal strength once for 11 when I adjusted the antenna but I lost ABC. No splitters by the way. Also here is the Rdio Shack Antenna I tried.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3611256


----------



## nycdigital09

[ It seems that WNJN Channel 50 is been really strong for me lately the past few months. I peaked it at 80. I am glad I am getting it strong since WNJB never bothered to move to 4 Times Square. It seems like I get channels from NJ stronger. Don't get me started on Channel 66 but even Channel 63 weak I am able to get unlike Channel 31 which now I can't even peak in the 20's. Pathetic that they must be broadcasting very weak.]


Reddice your location is correct me, Bensonhurst, lower part of brooklyn to be getting NJN realiably, for the life of me I can't pick up any of NJ stations, I get most of them just below the reliable treshold, Im located in queens close to midtown area


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*: I was told it was the fat end ...
> 
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89*: You were told wrong. Whoever told you that needs to be ignored when it comes to antennas...


*Think of your antenna like an arrow head. The narrow end is the point you aim toward the transmitting tower. The broader end goes away from the station. The shorter elements are called "directors" which concentrate signals onto the antenna's pickup or "receiving" element, and the longer elements are called "reflectors" which bounce signals back onto the receiving element. Antennas will work off axis or even backwards with degraded performance. One rating of an antenna is the front-to-back ratio which indicates how much better the antenna works when aimed at the station than when it has its back aimed at the station. This rating indicates how well the antenna will ignore or reject co-channel interference from behind.*


----------



## R.F. Burns

One of the reasons for the varied length of TV antenna elements has to do with it's used for broad band reception. The standard TV antenna has to cover low band VHF(2-6) , High band VHF (7-13) & UHF (14-69). That's a very wide swarth of spectrum in which the antenna has to work. If you look at most FM only antennas you'll notice very little difference in element length between director, driven element and reflector.


----------



## nordloewelabs

a few days ago, someone posted that ABC-7 boosted its signal a little. i just tried it and got a reading of 100%. (!) i had never gotten more than 40% till today. my antenna is a *Winegard HD-7694P* placed indoors. i'm 9mi away from the ESB.


i hope this isnt atmospherics. curiously, my WNET-13 signal has gotten weaker. has PBS done any change to their transmission?


btw, now i can get WASA-61 as well.


----------



## jpru34

My tv is registering new subchannels for Ion call "Air Tv" which is channels 31-7, 31-8, 31-9 etc.


Anyone know what this is?


----------



## StudioTech

I just did a rescan on 31 and didn't come up with any of those. Just the usual 31-1, -2, and -3.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/18156760
> 
> 
> My tv is registering new subchannels for Ion call "Air Tv" which is channels 31-7, 31-8, 31-9 etc.
> 
> 
> Anyone know what this is?



What is on them?


----------



## nordloewelabs

i also got those new subs on ION-31. they show nothing on my TV.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18158654
> 
> 
> What is on them?



they have been testing mobile video for some time

http://www.ionpress.com/article.php?secID=0&indID=171


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18159203
> 
> 
> they have been testing mobile video for some time
> 
> http://www.ionpress.com/article.php?secID=0&indID=171



A standard tuner would completely ignore the Mobile DTV data.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18159135
> 
> 
> i also got those new subs on ION-31. they show nothing on my TV.



I checked their website and no other subs are showing. I tried google air tv and found nothing. Maybe something is coming?


----------



## reddice

I might get a outdoor antenna now. Dish Network upgraded my Dish to a Eastern Arc which only needs one coax line to my receiver. Now I have a extra coax going on the roof that is not connected to anything. What are the best and smallest outdoor antennas? As long as it can get channels 7 to 51. I don't care about low VHF.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18168522
> 
> 
> I might get a outdoor antenna now. Dish Network upgraded my Dish to a Eastern Arc which only needs one coax line to my receiver. Now I have a extra coax going on the roof that is not connected to anything. What are the best and smallest outdoor antennas? As long as it can get channels 7 to 51. I don't care about low VHF.



I have Heard Yagi's, DB4, Clearstream 4


----------



## reddice

Those are UHF only. What about channels 7, 11 and 13?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18169784
> 
> 
> Those are UHF only. What about channels 7, 11 and 13?



Clearstream is High VHF also.


I heard the DB4 gets VHF in under 15 miles or so.



Edit by Snellkrell


lol


----------



## SnellKrell

You mean VHF.


VHS pertains to video tape.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18169784
> 
> 
> Those are UHF only. What about channels 7, 11 and 13?



Winegard HD-7694P
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=615798398446 


i have this one indoors (the building's roof is off-limits to me). i cannot get CW-11 with it, but that isnt surprising since most people have difficulties at getting it. i get all other channels though -- even ABC-7! this antenna is designed specifically for VHF-Hi and UHF.


i'm sure others can recommend other good antennas too.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18172801
> 
> 
> You mean VHF.
> 
> 
> VHS pertains to video tape.



I don't know about your little TV but mine picks up VHS all the time. lol


Maybe your missing out? lol


----------



## rob316




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18172816
> 
> 
> Winegard HD-7694P
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=615798398446
> 
> 
> i have this one indoors (the building's roof is off-limits to me). i cannot get CW-11 with it, but that isnt surprising since most people have difficulties at getting it. i get all other channels though -- even ABC-7! this antenna is designed specifically for VHF-Hi and UHF.
> 
> 
> i'm sure others can recommend other good antennas too.



I am in NJ, Carteret, I have the Terk HDTVA antenna, I can get NY 2,4,5,7,9,11 but not 13.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18172816
> 
> 
> Winegard HD-7694P
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=615798398446
> 
> 
> i have this one indoors (the building's roof is off-limits to me). i cannot get CW-11 with it, but that isnt surprising since most people have difficulties at getting it. i get all other channels though -- even ABC-7! this antenna is designed specifically for VHF-Hi and UHF.
> 
> 
> i'm sure others can recommend other good antennas too.



For your antenna, the link says "it is primarily an outdoor antenna and is not intended to be installed indoors". I wonder why it says that for that particular antenna and not the rest, but that could be part of your problem.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18176663
> 
> 
> For your antenna, the link says "it is primarily an outdoor antenna and is not intended to be installed indoors". I wonder why it says that for that particular antenna and not the rest, but that could be part of your problem.



No, it's not a problem.


My guess is that SS simply is noting the physical size of the antenna. The larger 769X antennas would be even more ridiculous in someone's living room.


Their ad writer seems to come up with some interesting commentary...


----------



## nyctveng

reddice with all your reception problems, i would have thought u long have had an outdoor antenna if that was an opytion. you could have used a $2 diplexer to combine OTA and satellite over 1 wire with your old dish setup.


see my post from 6/19/09. i have this on my balcony.
http://www.buy.com/prod/pro-brand-di...202827678.html 




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18168522
> 
> 
> I might get a outdoor antenna now. Dish Network upgraded my Dish to a Eastern Arc which only needs one coax line to my receiver. Now I have a extra coax going on the roof that is not connected to anything. What are the best and smallest outdoor antennas? As long as it can get channels 7 to 51. I don't care about low VHF.


----------



## reddice

I could not put a outdoor antenna because of the drilling of holes in the walls but as I said before I have a extra coax cable in my room that is not connected to anything now and I can use it for a outdoor antenna. Just wondering since I am 4 miles from the stations on the ESB would it cause worse reception as now I get channels 5 and 7 the strongest.


Also is this antenna good.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846


----------



## nordloewelabs

i've read good things about the RCA ANT751. other people in the AVS boards have discussed this (relatively) small wonder. when i decided to go "jumbo" (none of the 4 indoors solutions i tried got me a decent VHF-Hi), i was torn between the RCA and the Winegard that i ended up buying.


the reason why i got the Winegard is two fold: 1) i didnt want to take chances with one more return. i was tired of trying antennas. 2) Winegard published the antenna's specs, whereas RCA still hasnt.


given your short distance to the ESB, the RCA is enough, i think.


----------



## dvdchance

I got a few new stations this morning when I turned on my DTVPal DVR. 42.1 to 42.4 LP. Something called Daystar?


Any info on them? Where are they broadcasting from?


----------



## Trip in VA

WKOB-LD 2 is on the air?


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

Can you tell if it's on channel 2 or channel 59? They have permits for both.


- Trip


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18182839
> 
> 
> Can you tell if it's on channel 2 or channel 59? They have permits for both.
> 
> 
> - Trip



They (WKOB) appear to be on channel 2. Their PSIP shows 42-1 to 42-4.


----------



## hphase

WASA is OTA 25, PSIP 64. How the he!! did a Port Jervis station get a transmitter in NYC? Even their analog OTA signal can't be picked up in Port Jervis (or in NYC, either -- it's only somewhere in between.)


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18182723
> 
> 
> WKOB-LD 2 is on the air?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Si senor.

All 4 are 704x480i 30 Hz 42-1Daystar from Dallas Tx, strictly christian

the other 3 only color bars SD-2, SD-3. SD-4 all LP

I think wCBC2-1 might be connected to 42-, one box give me reading 2-1

and another box 2-4 maybe connected to 42-4


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/18183317
> 
> 
> WASA is OTA 25, PSIP 64. How the he!! did a Port Jervis station get a transmitter in NYC? Even their analog OTA signal can't be picked up in Port Jervis (or in NYC, either -- it's only somewhere in between.)



C.25 must be getting paid good $$ by WASA since they continue to carry their 1.2 deffered as 25-3 and 25-4 while WASA on 64-1.2 sells and sells and sells whoever is willing to bear to watch it


----------



## reddice

Channel 42 analog I got really clear and strong. Only one mile from the transmitter. Now that it is digital I can't even peak it at 15%. But it is broadcasting on low VHF RF 2. Could not pull RF 3 or 6 either. I don't care anyone, one less cruddy 480i religious station the better.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18179609
> 
> 
> I could not put a outdoor antenna because of the drilling of holes in the walls but as I said before I have a extra coax cable in my room that is not connected to anything now and I can use it for a outdoor antenna. Just wondering since I am 4 miles from the stations on the ESB would it cause worse reception as now I get channels 5 and 7 the strongest.
> 
> 
> Also is this antenna good.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846



You can buy the antenna from your local wal*mart and try it out yourself. Wal*mart sells it for $68 I think. You can return it and buy it online for cheap if you like. In any case, with wal*mart you can return the antenna without much hassles. Also, if running coax is hassle, you can always try the flat coax cable. I have mentioned it before too. Also, just for checkpoint purpose, I receive 11.x quite well after 8PM from Franklin Twp, NJ. 7 is always rock steady and 13 usually comes unless the tropo is bad. Unfortunately as springs starts in, I will probably lose the 11 and 13 and probably lose it in summer. UHF is never a problem. I am using the CM3010 with the CM3038 preamp.

Personally, I think you will be fine even with a DB2/Eagle Aspen DTV2UHF/C2 antenna, because you are so close to the antenna and its super cheap (not the C2 though). All these antennas have reflector, so your multipath situation might be lot improved.


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks folks.










Now, can anyone with TSReader pick it up?










- Trip


----------



## reddice

No Wal-mart's in Brooklyn or anywhere in the city.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18185622
> 
> 
> No Wal-mart's in Brooklyn or anywhere in the city.



The City Council won't let them open a Walmart in the 5 boroughs because of labor issues (low pay, no benefits).


----------



## Trip in VA

Regarding WKOB-LD, they filed their license app with the FCC yesterday, and simultaneously filed for displacement back to channel 42. Not sure how that will work what with the WSAH application still pending.


- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

has PBS-13 made any modifications to its transmission? the "sweet spot" i used to use doesnt work reliably for this station anymore. i'm currently trying to find a new and reliable spot for its reception.


i'm curious about what might have happened to PBS's signal....(!?) any chances that the changes to ABC-7 (that now i can finally receive well) have had an influence on WNET's signal? which other stations in this region are planning a signal boost?


btw, while moving the antenna around last night, i was able to get PIX-11 for the first time!!! i had given up on it last fall after lots of time spent on it. last night, without trying much, i got it at about 40%. so, once i find a new sweet spot for PBS-13, i'll try to improve PIX-11's reception.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18188449
> 
> 
> has PBS-13 made any modifications to its transmission? the "sweet spot" i used to use doesnt work reliably for this station anymore. i'm currently trying to find a new and reliable spot for its reception.
> 
> 
> i'm curious about what might have happened to PBS's signal....(!?) any chances that the changes to ABC-7 (that now i can finally receive well) have had an influence on WNET's signal? which other stations in this region are planning a signal boost?
> 
> 
> btw, while moving the antenna around last night, i was able to get PIX-11 for the first time!!! i had given up on it last fall after lots of time spent on it. last night, without trying much, i got it at about 40%. so, once i find a new sweet spot for PBS-13, i'll try to improve PIX-11's reception.



I've also noticed a change in my reception of 13 - the quality of the signal has lessened. 11 for a while wasn't all that good - but in the last week or so has gotten better. 7 has improved for me, but this could be a function of an approved power increase - don't know if that is the case.


These three stations are all part of the VHF Combiner on the ESB - possibly work has been done. All I know is that my reception has changed.


----------



## johnosolis

Here in East Williamsburg Brooklyn (using a DB-2 indoors facing southwest on the ground floor), channel 7 has improved, although it was good already. Channel 11 I have not been able to get at all since the digital transition. Channel 13, which was reliable previously, was unwatchable last night (no Antiques Roadshow!) for the first time in a long time.


2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 25, 34, 41, 47, 68 - good reception

13 - unreliable now

31, 39 - unwatchable

11 - no signal whatsoever (0%)


[Yes, I know that the DB-2 is a UHF-only antenna. I am not willing to bother with a second VHF antenna just to get an extra channel.]


----------



## reddice

13 is coming in fine as is 7 but 11 is now coming in bad. In the 40's with major breakups. I really need to get that outdoor antenna soon.


----------



## reddice

Now I lost 11. Coming in the 20's as it was months ago when I could not get it.


----------



## Straphanger

Channel 7 keeps breaking up for me now and 4 is a bit weak. What on earth happened to the antennas?


----------



## StudioTech

Possibly a weather issue since there's been heavy rain all day?


----------



## Straphanger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18194492
> 
> 
> Possibly a weather issue since there's been heavy rain all day?



Usually it's fine in heavy rain but now the signal has gone to hell. 4 and 7 are the most choppy for me.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma

I moved my deep fringe hi band vhf antenna across the attic & now ch13 is solid & almost max on the signal level meter on a zenith dtv converter box. There are 2 building in line of the path to the transmitter. When I moved the antenna it was looking down the streets between the buildings at a clear path. I ran an extension cord like you use for a hedge trimmer to power the tv & dtv box. Standing with each foot on 2x6 ceiling joist with the TV laying in the insulation was no fun. But that was the only way I knew how to turn the antenna to point in the best direction. I wish I had done this while the analog was on the air. Then you could see the ghost or a good signal on the screen. With out fancy test equipment you now can only look at the signal meter for a max of signal. I wonder if you used an analog TV & connected an o scope to the video detector if you would see the 6 Hz mask [signal] from the transmitter. You would think they would have a box to convert an analog TV to work as an spectrum analyzer like the video games that use an analog TV. They convert the graphic to an analog TV signal [NTSC] so you can see it on an analog TV. So then you could see the distortion like you would see on an o scope would make it a lot easyer. Doing it the way I did is a pain in the lower back


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/18197402
> 
> 
> I moved my deep fringe hi band vhf antenna across the attic & now ch13 is solid & almost max on the signal level meter on a zenith dtv converter box. There are 2 building in line of the path to the transmitter. When I moved the antenna it was looking down the streets between the buildings at a clear path. I ran an extension cord like you use for a hedge trimmer to power the tv & dtv box. Standing with each foot on 2x6 ceiling joist with the TV laying in the insulation was no fun. But that was the only way I knew how to turn the antenna to point in the best direction. I wish I had done this while the analog was on the air. Then you could see the ghost or a good signal on the screen. With out fancy test equipment you now can only look at the signal meter for a max of signal. I wonder if you used an analog TV & connected an o scope to the video detector if you would see the 6 Hz mask [signal] from the transmitter. You would think they would have a box to convert an analog TV to work as an spectrum analyzer like the video games that use an analog TV. They convert the graphic to an analog TV signal [NTSC] so you can see it on an analog TV. So then you could see the distortion like you would see on an o scope would make it a lot easyer. Doing it the way I did is a pain in the lower back



As I always said, Antenna placement is more of an ART Form. Then Science.


I like to have $1 per hour I spent on playing with Antenna placement.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i'm considering the purchase of the Winegard HDP-269 preamp to help with the reception of PBS-13. i'm 9mi away from ESB and already use a big antenna. i heard this preamp is designed to avoid overdriving. if it occurs, i'll try splitting the signal a few times.


----------



## jpru34

I live about 12 miles from the ESB, have an antenna in my attic, split my signal between 3 TVs, and have had great success with the HDP-269. I highly recommend it.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i wonder if the preamp will make it possible for me to receive the PBS station broadcast from NJ or the one broadcast from LI. currently i get no signal from either, so i'm guessing the preamp wont make something out of nothing....


i'd love to receive PBS World.


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18204381
> 
> 
> i'm considering the purchase of the Winegard HDP-269 preamp to help with the reception of PBS-13. i'm 9mi away from ESB and already use a big antenna. i heard this preamp is designed to avoid overdriving. if it occurs, i'll try splitting the signal a few times.



As other posters may have mentioned, using a preamp in a strong signal area may be appropriate only when long runs and multiple taps are utilized. Often in strong signal areas a selective antenna that rejects multipath is desired over raw gain.


A good test to see whether a preamp is needed in a strong signal area is to mount the receiver next to the antenna and see what channels are received then reconnect your setup and see what is lost. You may be pleasantly surprised that an amp is not needed if your antenna and lead-ins are in good shape.


----------



## R.F. Burns

Due to the weather conditions yesterday I lost my DirecTV reception for most of the day. Due to the fact that the storm was mostly rain as opposed to all snow, that didn't surprise me. What did surprise me though was the fact that I also lost my over the air TV last night. My antenna is in the attic and I normally rceeive all NYC stations very well. Last night the only stations I could receive without breakup were channels 2 & 25. Channels 4 & 5 had severe breakup and Ch's 7, 9, 11, 13 & 31, were not viewable. Today, only channel 50 is still not watchable. All others are back to normal as is my DirecTV reception.


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18209191
> 
> 
> Due to the weather conditions yesterday I lost my DirecTV reception for most of the day. Due to the fact that the storm was mostly rain as opposed to all snow, that didn't surprise me. What did surprise me though was the fact that I also lost my over the air TV last night. My antenna is in the attic and I normally rceeive all NYC stations very well. Last night the only stations I could receive without breakup were channels 2 & 25. Channels 4 & 5 had severe breakup and Ch's 7, 9, 11, 13 & 31, were not viewable. Today, only channel 50 is still not watchable. All others are back to normal as is my DirecTV reception.



I also have antennas installed in the attic. I am located less than 15 miles NNW of ESB. I have a RS VU-120XR pointed S and a Jerrold UHF Yagi pointed N. All stations due N were lost and continue to be lost today. All S stations remain on. What seems surprising is that the signal strength appear unchanged with over a foot of snow on the roof.


----------



## AloEuro

"I like to have $1 per hour I spent on playing with Antenna placement''

So, you are millioner, huh.


----------



## jpru34

I have lost reception on 31, presumably due to the weather. all other stations are coming on normal and ok.


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18209191
> 
> 
> Due to the weather conditions yesterday I lost my DirecTV reception for most of the day. Due to the fact that the storm was mostly rain as opposed to all snow, that didn't surprise me. What did surprise me though was the fact that I also lost my over the air TV last night. My antenna is in the attic and I normally rceeive all NYC stations very well. Last night the only stations I could receive without breakup were channels 2 & 25. Channels 4 & 5 had severe breakup and Ch's 7, 9, 11, 13 & 31, were not viewable. Today, only channel 50 is still not watchable. All others are back to normal as is my DirecTV reception.



Do yu have a tuner that shows carrier to noise (C/N) ratio? That will show you how close to the cliff you are. As I'm sure you know, if you are only a dB or two above threshold (approx 16 dB C/N) you don't have to drop much to lose reception.


----------



## nordloewelabs

the splitter i'm using to send the signal from my antenna to my LCD and my converter box has a label that says:


5Mhz-1Ghz

RFI: 120dB

-8 db TAP


what is the "TAP" spec? is that an attenuation factor?


----------



## George Molnar

This means that its not a two-way splitter where the input is divided equally between the two outputs.


Rather, it means that the "tap" spigot is 8db less than the input, and usually the other output is almost the same level as the input, minus the 'insertion' loss.


For an 8db tap the insertion loss would probably be 1 db or so.


For a true two-way splitter, each output is 3db less than the input.


----------



## n2ubp

Snow on digital signal?

Attachment 168408


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/18212839
> 
> 
> For an 8db tap the insertion loss would probably be 1 db or so.



in other words: the outputs are approx -8db and -1db?


that explains why the LCD TV (which was connected to the TAP leg) had such a crappy signal compared to the converter box. i was attributing the difference in picture quality solely to the receivers' sensitivities.


living and learning.... thanks for the info!


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18212515
> 
> 
> the splitter i'm using to send the signal from my antenna to my LCD and my converter box has a label that says:
> 
> 
> 5Mhz-1Ghz
> 
> RFI: 120dB
> 
> -8 db TAP
> 
> 
> what is the "TAP" spec? is that an attenuation factor?



Do you have 4 taps?


Ideal 2 way splitter is -3dB at each tap. Typical is around -3.7dB.


Ideal 4-way splitter is -6dB at each tap. Internally it is three 2-way splitters in two stages. The first splits in two, then those are split again. Due to these ganged losses, each output is -7.5dB compared to source.


Don't forget to terminate unused splitter outputs to minimize reflections (and interference).


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/18210445
> 
> 
> Do yu have a tuner that shows carrier to noise (C/N) ratio? That will show you how close to the cliff you are. As I'm sure you know, if you are only a dB or two above threshold (approx 16 dB C/N) you don't have to drop much to lose reception.



You're kidding, right? What consumer-grade tuner at consumer-grade prices would display C/N?


----------



## pantrychef

I don't think these folks monitor their broadcast.


Arirang moved from 48.2 to 48.3 on January 11. Blue Ocean Network occupied 48.2 since then yet has had no audio. Wrote and called the folks in Westchester to no avail. The channel as it appears on FIOS and TWC seems to be okay.


Just as well, since MegaTV is supposed to take over BON on March 1. Perhaps nobody watches OTA.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/18210445
> 
> 
> Do yu have a tuner that shows carrier to noise (C/N) ratio? That will show you how close to the cliff you are. As I'm sure you know, if you are only a dB or two above threshold (approx 16 dB C/N) you don't have to drop much to lose reception.



No, but the signal strength reading on my TV's are normally full scale. I'm only 25 miles north of Manhattan. It's all an icing issue I'm sure. Could even be a problem with my passive DirecTV switch.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18182839
> 
> 
> Can you tell if it's on channel 2 or channel 59? They have permits for both.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Some more complicated conv.boxes after entering 2 go to wCBS2-1 other boxes go automatically to 42-1 Daystar WKOB-SD1-LP christian religious

the other 3 are still color bars only


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18193143
> 
> 
> Now I lost 11. Coming in the 20's as it was months ago when I could not get it.



i'm hearing WPIX is dropping LATV 11.3 soon


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18216998
> 
> 
> i'm hearing WPIX is dropping LATV 11.3 soon



Wow, if anything I'd have expected them to drop Estrella TV, now that WASA-LD is on the air. (That station is supposed to be sold to Liberman.)


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18217115
> 
> 
> Wow, if anything I'd have expected them to drop Estrella TV, now that WASA-LD is on the air. (That station is supposed to be sold to Liberman.)
> 
> 
> - Trip



estrella has broad distribution (cable & ota) in many major markets thru subchannel leasing. no way they can match the distribution by going to a low power. in nyc estrella is carried thru wpix-dt on rcn,verizon,cablevision. time warner has yet to pick them up but i suspect it may happen soon.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18216998
> 
> 
> i'm hearing WPIX is dropping LATV 11.3 soon



Replacing with what? Or just dropping? My aunt likes the music videos lol


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18217386
> 
> 
> estrella has broad distribution (cable & ota) in many major markets thru subchannel leasing. no way they can match the distribution by going to a low power. in nyc estrella is carried thru wpix-dt on rcn,verizon,cablevision. time warner has yet to pick them up but i suspect it may happen soon.



But in Phoenix and Chicago they're on low-powered stations instead of subchannels. In Chicago they could have been on WGN (co-owned with WPIX), and in Phoenix they could have been on KTVK or KASW (Belo-owned, and Belo has Estrella on some of its other stations).


Well, if they drop LATV, maybe they'd replace it with This TV. I know the Tribune station is the This TV affiliate in several markets.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18217642
> 
> 
> But in Phoenix and Chicago they're on low-powered stations instead of subchannels. In Chicago they could have been on WGN (co-owned with WPIX), and in Phoenix they could have been on KTVK or KASW (Belo-owned, and Belo has Estrella on some of its other stations).
> 
> 
> Well, if they drop LATV, maybe they'd replace it with This TV. I know the Tribune station is the This TV affiliate in several markets.
> 
> 
> - Trip



This TV would be a positive add on. Since ION Subs are now showing movies. It will make it more like cable or Sat


Still missing 24/7 news


----------



## nordloewelabs

the addition of ThisTV would be a great development.

too bad if it comes as a PIX-11 sub.... i cant get it very well.


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/18213810
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right? What consumer-grade tuner at consumer-grade prices would display C/N?



My On-Air GT shows this as did my old Fusion 5 and my Sony TV.


However, getting meaningful signal strength readings seems to be more difficult w/o an SA.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18221151
> 
> 
> the addition of ThisTV would be a great development.
> 
> too bad if it comes as a PIX-11 sub.... i cant get it very well.



Understood, I tell my aunt to thank the TV Gods everyday. Since she can get 33 channels. Including subs. ALL the major networks come in the 80 to 98 range.


I tell her how lucky she is. Also the fact that I played with many antenna's. And moved them around the whole room. Different heights too.


I noticed a 1 foot move can make all the difference.


We got the Dish network Dishpal for Antenna's. Although the box is qwerky. What do you expect for $20 with $40 government coupon? Once in a blue moon it freezes. Common problem with that box. So I set up a power strip next to the tv. So she can unplug it by using the on/off switch and not bend down.


The Dishpal has the best guide with information of what shows are on with data on what the show is about. In fact it looks and acts like a smaller version of a cable or Sat box.


The other thing I like is that it automatically adds new stations or channels. So I do not need to explain how to scan it ect.


As I always said. This is a art form. To get the right Antenna with right box for your area. Lot of trial and error.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18221944
> 
> 
> I noticed a 1 foot move can make all the difference.



exactly. the sweet spot for a given channel can be under the fridge, pointing up 10 degrees and facing NW.... even if the station is in the opposite direction.


crazy stuff.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18222057
> 
> 
> exactly. the sweet spot for a given channel can be under the fridge, pointing up 10 degrees and facing NW.... even if the station is in the opposite direction.
> 
> 
> crazy stuff.



I even tried the toilet.










I now tell people looking for help. If your not willing to get 3 to 4 antennas to try. Days of moving the antenna around. Then don't bother.


The correct setup takes time and energy. Unless you get lucky


----------



## SnellKrell

Anyone else having problems with receiving WNYW (44)?


Signal is erratic - mostly just not there!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18222345
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems with receiving WNYW (44)?
> 
> 
> Signal is erratic - mostly just not there!



WNYW is FOX


We get FOX on 5.1 I forget the virtual number. Could be 44.


Anyway I called my aunt and very strong signal just now. 88 to 93. No problems at all with signal


Hope this helps


----------



## SnellKrell

Where does your aunt live?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18222408
> 
> 
> Where does your aunt live?



Queens, few miles from 495


Northeast wall window. Straight line to NYC and ESB. TVFOOL says 7 miles from NYC


----------



## SnellKrell

Thanks - still a big problem here in the East 60s near Second Avenue!


----------



## nordloewelabs

FOX-5.1 at 100% for me. 9mi from ESB.


----------



## SnellKrell

Thanks - this is weird!


----------



## hphase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/18213810
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right? What consumer-grade tuner at consumer-grade prices would display C/N?



My DVICO FusionHDTV USB tuner shows "signal strength" and C/N. I don't assume everyone has such a device, but that's why I said "if."


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18216998
> 
> 
> i'm hearing WPIX is dropping LATV 11.3 soon



OMG what? That's the only channel where they show MUSIC VIDEOS and not just Spanish music american music to.


DTV OFFICIALLY HAS NOTHING BESIDES RELIGIOUS CRAP


----------



## StudioTech

Talk about an overreaction to a rumor...


And LATV was better when they were mostly English speaking, imo. They used to have a show that made fun of alot of the Spanish-language programming out there and now in many ways, they've become what they used to mock.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pantrychef* /forum/post/18213810
> 
> 
> You're kidding, right? What consumer-grade tuner at consumer-grade prices would display C/N?



Motorola made a hd100 & a hd101. both had the signal to noise ratio along with the db level


----------



## LenL

All of my channels were their usual signal strength yesterday with the exception of CBS which was in the 60s and dropping out every minute. Anyone else have issues? I could not watch the Amazing race it was so bad.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18225153
> 
> 
> Talk about an overreaction to a rumor...
> 
> 
> And LATV was better when they were mostly English speaking, imo. They used to have a show that made fun of alot of the Spanish-language programming out there and now in many ways, they've become what they used to mock.



Well this is a one of a kind channel. So ya im little irritated.


----------



## AloEuro

In case you have had hard time to get WKOB42-1(2,3,4, still color bars)LP, I like to alert you what you are missing.

True, they have some prophecies interpretation, but most of the time they post toll free telephone # , some for U.S.A. and outside of USA, also for specific countries like U.K.,France, Germany, China etc and above the phone # they put sign - To Donate -

I wonder what they want You to donate, since the preachers wear at least $800 up suits, it can not be your dimes and nickels, it puzzles me what they want you to donate them, huh. alo.


----------



## reddice

The only station I can get at 100% is that old geezer Channel 66. Wish I could not get it?

Channel 11 came back in the 50's again. I lost it again on Saturday but now I can get it again. They really need to boost there power.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18231363
> 
> 
> The only station I can get at 100% is that old geezer Channel 66. Wish I could not get it?
> 
> Channel 11 came back in the 50's again. I lost it again on Saturday but now I can get it again. They really need to boost there power.



if u have your spare coax up there, try rabbit ears up there until u decide what outdoor antenna to buy. i'm sure u can pick up every major network and ut cant be worse that the reception you get now.


----------



## icemannyr

Does anyone know or can check if WABC has changed the bit rates for the main and sub channels again?


I noticed tonight Jimmy Kimmel Live had very soft video and even the abc bug was soft.

This happens when WABC gives to much bandwidth Live Well HD and the other sub channel. They had fixed it last year and WABC-DT was looking better.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/18232573
> 
> 
> Does anyone know or can check if WABC has changed the bit rates for the main and sub channels again?
> 
> 
> I noticed tonight Jimmy Kimmel Live had very soft video and even the abc bug was soft.
> 
> This happens when WABC gives to much bandwidth Live Well HD and the other sub channel. They had fixed it last year and WABC-DT was looking better.



ABC is having a huge fight with Cablevision now. Be glad you have OTA. Seems all Major networks are fighting with cable and Sat company's. FOX and Time Warner was just a month ago.


I always wonder if OTA networks will pull their signal? There was talk about this very thing.


Of course apart of their fight Cablevision now saying that ABC is free on OTA.


It is strange that all this comes now during a bad economy.


Wished I could get OTA where I live. My aunt is so lucky to have OTA.


----------



## nycdigital09

[Wow, if anything I'd have expected them to drop Estrella TV, now that WASA-LD is on the air


is anybody experiencing problems with WASA-LD, To me it comes it great for about 10 seconds, then it picture breaks up completely, then its unwatchable, picture breaks up, unlike pixeling from weak signal. it freezes then picture flutters up and down like it was riding a wave, then it stays frozen, it never goes away.







my signal is s/n ratio is good one of my strongest stations. postulating could it be the signal is too strong ? Is anybody experience this weird problem.


----------



## jpru34

I'm sure others are more knowledgeable than me, but it is my understanding that a company cannot merely pull their OTA signal. I believe that need permission from the FCC to do this.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/18236355
> 
> 
> I'm sure others are more knowledgeable than me, but it is my understanding that a company cannot merely pull their OTA signal. I believe that need permission from the FCC to do this.



OTA stations have one of two options:


1) Must-carry. Exactly what it sounds like.

2) Retransmission consent. The station negotiates terms with the cable company. Failure to reach an agreement means the station can be pulled.


- Trip


----------



## Digital169

Does anyone know the status the WCBS Plainview translator (RF ch 20)?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18236707
> 
> 
> OTA stations have one of two options:
> 
> 
> 1) Must-carry. Exactly what it sounds like.
> 
> 2) Retransmission consent. The station negotiates terms with the cable company. Failure to reach an agreement means the station can be pulled.
> 
> 
> - Trip



just to add to what trip said re:retrans consent. this is the route most major networks choose to go. PBS, religious stations usually request must carry on all cable systems in the DMA. OTA networks will usually look to package their signal with other networks it owns. Ex: WNBC may tie require cable company to carry channels like bravo,usa,msnbc,cnbc;


ABC may tie their contract negotiations to ESPN. Negotiations will vary from channel to channel and different cable companies. Disney/ABC may be looking for wider distribution (lower cable tier)of their less popular networks like ESPN-U, ESPNEWS.


Many may remember several years back when ABC was pulled from TWC over Disney wanting Disney to move from a premium channel to a standard tier channel.


----------



## pantrychef

The following is the observed lineup for WRNN-48 effective 3/1/10:


48.1 WRNN

48.2 Mega TV

48.3 Arirang


Audio on 48.2 was restored by 10PM on 3/1.

I guess RNN pays more attention to Mega TV viewers than BON.


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18222345
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems with receiving WNYW (44)?
> 
> 
> Signal is erratic - mostly just not there!



I can confirm this, though it happens mostly at night.

When that happens I watch 5.2(SD) on RF 38.


RF 44 was lost here for several hours Saturday afternoon.


It's nice that 5 and 9 back each other up.


----------



## pantrychef

I read the FCC letter dated November 5.

I thought the bureau closed the door on relocation, no?


Though MTB filed a petition for reconsideration, was that just a procedural move?


----------



## AloEuro

wPIX11-1,2,3 surely interesting what's going on there. The Primary 11-1 has fluctuating signals, sometime 80-90', other times lower, and it never ever locks to 100%.

The other two -2,-3 Estrella and LATV signal is locked into 100. It seems to me that the subs-2,3 are using higher Amperage than the Primary 11-1, as result their signal is

'heavier' does not bounce as the other, kind of like 4wheels drive- rear and front wheel drive for the subs as compared to rear wheel drive for 11-1 at whatever Kwpower.


----------



## reddice

Watched some of Lost OTA on WABC and it looked terrible. Even close up on some of the commercials when they showed text it was very pixelated and blurry. The Dish Network OTA feed although looking softer looks better. I can't beleive they have the nerve of putting the stupid Live Well network in 720p while they still have a 480i weather channel.


Looking at channel 5 OTA which is also at 720p it looks so sharp with vivid colors and very crisp. I can't believe the most watched station WABC has to have the worst picture quality.


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18222393
> 
> 
> WNYW is FOX
> 
> 
> We get FOX on 5.1 I forget the virtual number. Could be 44.
> 
> 
> Anyway I called my aunt and very strong signal just now. 88 to 93. No problems at all with signal
> 
> 
> Hope this helps





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18222345
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems with receiving WNYW (44)?
> 
> 
> Signal is erratic - mostly just not there!



I am having trouble with both Fox WOR networks (both 5.1 5.2, 9.1,9.2 etc) in NYC through Hauppauge Wintv -HVR-1850 (W7 MC). I am in midtown Manhattan. I usually receive it but sometimes its erratic. I have no issue usually receiving it direct to my tv's astc tuner. I have an indoor amp Terk antenna pointing NW. NBC, ABC and WPIX are stronger signals.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18242047
> 
> 
> I can't believe the most watched station WABC has to have the worst picture quality.



Yep. It looks like the engineers at WABC took a couple more mbits from the main channel over to LW recently and thought noone would notice.


----------



## jmsnyc

Could it be the specific location? Because in my apt I get strong ABC and Weak FOX, WOR.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18246465
> 
> 
> Yep. It looks like the engineers at WABC took a couple more mbits from the main channel over to LW recently and thought noone would notice.



As a test I recorded The View on WABC-DT and the total file size was only 4.1GB.

I recorded an hour of GDNY on WNYW-DT (FOX5) which is also 720p and the file size is 5.79 GB.

Since Monday WABC-DT is basically broadcasting at a max of 10mpbs which is not good for HD video.


There's just no way an hour of 720p HD video should be able to fit on a DVD-R.

WABC needs to give the bandwidth back to 7.1 WABC-DT.


Jimmy Kimmel Live is so soft from the reduced bandwidth it looks SD.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/18246640
> 
> 
> Since Monday WABC-DT is basically broadcasting at a max of 10mpbs which is not good for HD video....
> 
> Jimmy Kimmel Live is so soft from the reduced bandwidth it looks SD.



I noticed the difference with the newscast and have started watching Channel 5 news instead. Maybe I'm just not in the 7.1 LIVE WELL HD demographic, but I can't imagine ever watching that boring subchannel for more than 2 seconds.


----------



## yobiworld

Cablevision has always been greedy when it comes to money.

This time they are biting more then they can chew.


----------



## n2ubp

This is what I have for 7-1 WABC during the Grays broadcast:


Elementary Stream PID 49 (0x0031) MPEG-2 Video

MPEG Video: Bitrate 17.729 Mbps Resolution 1280 x 720p

MPEG Video: Framerate 59.94 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0

Descriptor: STD Descriptor

Leak Valid Flag: 1

Descriptor: Smoothing Buffer Descriptor

SB Leak Rate: 48482 SB Size: 2048

Descriptor: Data Stream Alignment Descriptor

Alignment type: video access unit

Descriptor: ATSC Caption Service Descriptor

ATSC Caption Service Descriptor:

Language: eng Format: Captions service 1


----------



## Trip in VA

That doesn't tell you anything useful. The encoder is sending 17.7 Mbps to the multiplexer, but then turns it down even more. Using TSReader, you have to use the green lines to determine actual bitrate.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18251419
> 
> 
> Cablevision has always been greedy when it comes to money.
> 
> This time they are biting more then they can chew.



It takes two to act like children. Both are in the wrong imo


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18252266
> 
> 
> That doesn't tell you anything useful. The encoder is sending 17.7 Mbps to the multiplexer, but then turns it down even more. Using TSReader, you have to use the green lines to determine actual bitrate.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Here ya go after running it for a little over 10 minutes.


----------



## Trip in VA

Ouch. Looks like 9 Mbps on average for 7-1, 7 Mbps on average for 7-2.


On other ABC O&O stations, those numbers are more like 12 and 4.5, which is much better.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18247930
> 
> 
> I noticed the difference with the newscast and have started watching Channel 5 news instead. Maybe I'm just not in the 7.1 LIVE WELL HD demographic, but I can't imagine ever watching that boring subchannel for more than 2 seconds.



Count me as one of the Live Well viewers. I guess I may be the tiny minority that thinks it has some great shows. I love "Motion" and the food shows. Also it probably has more health programming that benefits people than 7.1.


----------



## jpru34

Weird thing this morning. ION is coming in at steady 92% signal (per usual) but picture is pixelating and breaking up very often. Happening on all my TVs. Usually when I have issues with ION it is b\\c the signal is weak or fluctuating. Any explanations?


----------



## Chris3mes1

I also noticed ABC quality down a lot, I thought it was my tv setting changed.


I also lost my Qam signal while watching a show last night for 7.1, I have to re-scan now


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18254299
> 
> 
> Count me as one of the Live Well viewers. I guess I may be the tiny minority that thinks it has some great shows. I love "Motion" and the food shows. Also it probably has more health programming that benefits people than 7.1.



I guess a better question is. Do you think LW would be just as good in SD? Is there a need to see a grilled cheese sandwich in HD?


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/18254591
> 
> 
> Weird thing this morning. ION is coming in at steady 92% signal (per usual) but picture is pixelating and breaking up very often. Happening on all my TVs. Usually when I have issues with ION it is b\\c the signal is weak or fluctuating. Any explanations?




Sencor manuf a \\TV signal meter years ago with sweep meter & a ear phone jack so you could hear the TV station. Then later they had one with a small TV screen so you could also see the signal for ghost, static & interference. Most dtv converter boxes have an option to show a signal measurement display on the screen. You would think they would have a low profile o scope showing like a spectrum analyzer the mast of the signal from the station. Or a converter to put in-between the TV if out put where the analog video detector is. It would sample the mast from the if amp in the TV & produce an display on the TV screen much like an external video game does using your TV. Or At least some way to see the wave form of the signal so you can see what is going wrong. I would guess that you have multi path issues [what cause ghost on the analog TV] or interference. But with out the expensive test equipment like an spectrum analyzer it is as hit & bull eye or hit && miss. I know there was a way to make an analog TV into an o scope but it was an audio frequencies. I just wish there was a way to make it show the digital signal [mask] signal on screen. If there was some one who really was an extensive experiment electronics person who had the know how & time to try such a project.


----------



## AloEuro

Addiotionally, when the signal meter is good/strong, and pixelation shows, sometimes

ION shows Dialog box like ' Unscrumbled Video"


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/18254591
> 
> 
> Weird thing this morning. ION is coming in at steady 92% signal (per usual) but picture is pixelating and breaking up very often. Happening on all my TVs. Usually when I have issues with ION it is b\\c the signal is weak or fluctuating. Any explanations?



If you have a tuner that works with TS Reader, see if it is finding any errors.


i.e., if TS Reader reports no errors and you have problems, it's likely in the source path somewhere.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18255191
> 
> 
> I guess a better question is. Do you think LW would be just as good in SD? Is there a need to see a grilled cheese sandwich in HD?



Probably most of the programming on 7.2 would be OK at a lower quality signal. I would agree that 7.1 should get most of the quality signal. But I also think 7.2 has some very useful and informative programming.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18247930
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm just not in the 7.1 LIVE WELL HD demographic, but I can't imagine ever watching that boring subchannel for more than 2 seconds.



maybe ABC gave Live Well more bandwidth because that sub is growing in popularity (i dont know if it is). all subs should be SD.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18255191
> 
> 
> I guess a better question is. Do you think LW would be just as good in SD? Is there a need to see a grilled cheese sandwich in HD?



First they need to start airing programming that people will actually watch. LW SHOULD START AIRING RERUNS.

Starting with programing like Alias,NYPD BLUE,Life As We Know It.

So HD should be the last thing on there minds. Unfortunately LW is a complete wast of time.


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18260469
> 
> 
> First they need to start airing programming that people will actually watch. LW SHOULD START AIRING RERUNS.



I am sick and tired and tired and sick of reruns.

If the OTA networks want to retain market share they need to get out of the world of cheapo reality and court TV shows, invest in their offerings and come up with something imaginative that draws an audience without being an axe murder. Stop being so damn cheap to the point every one skips by your channel. Geese they can't even put on a news show anymore that provides all the facts for at least one story an evening. "See our web site for more info!!!"


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp* /forum/post/18263618
> 
> 
> I am sick and tired and tired and sick of reruns.
> 
> If the OTA networks want to retain market share they need to get out of the world of cheapo reality and court TV shows, invest in their offerings and come up with something imaginative that draws an audience without being an axe murder. Stop being so damn cheap to the point every one skips by your channel. Geese they can't even put on a news show anymore that provides all the facts for at least one story an evening. "See our web site for more info!!!"



I think he means that if house(not sure what network) runs at 8pm then a Sub could carry it later at 10pm


----------



## keyboard21

Well I guess I will have to watch Oscars at my Aunts OTA. ABC just took there signal off cablevision


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18263875
> 
> 
> Well I guess I will have to watch Oscars at my Aunts OTA. ABC just took there signal off cablevision



Pete Putman has a blog entry about that!

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=308 


He writes: "So I'd expect almost anyone who is 30 miles or less from Empire with a reasonably clear path will be able to pull in WABC's HD signal, using an outside antenna. Within 15 miles, you may only need an indoor antenna, preferably one that can be rotated and has a switchable amplifier built-in."


Here in Poughkeepsie, I never had much luck with WABC off the VHF antenna since June 12, 2009, so I have a backup with the UHF antenna aimed north - WTEN, the ABC affiliate from Albany, NY. However I've heard that WABC is also raising their power on channel 7 - can anyone confirm this?


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/18266677
> 
> 
> Pete Putman has a blog entry about that!
> 
> http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=308
> 
> 
> He writes: "So I'd expect almost anyone who is 30 miles or less from Empire with a reasonably clear path will be able to pull in WABC's HD signal, using an outside antenna. Within 15 miles, you may only need an indoor antenna, preferably one that can be rotated and has a switchable amplifier built-in."
> 
> 
> Here in Poughkeepsie, I never had much luck with WABC off the VHF antenna since June 12, 2009, so I have a backup with the UHF antenna aimed north - WTEN, the ABC affiliate from Albany, NY. However I've heard that WABC is also raising their power on channel 7 - can anyone confirm this?



Looks like the FCC recently granted WABC a 2dB power gain with another 2dB in the future. If your converter box or receiver showed a signal just below display threshold in past months, it might be worth a try now.


OTOH, if it showed no signal then, it might remain a lost cause.


Let us know what you find.


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/18266677
> 
> 
> Pete Putman has a blog entry about that!
> 
> http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=308
> 
> 
> He writes: "So I'd expect almost anyone who is 30 miles or less from Empire with a reasonably clear path will be able to pull in WABC's HD signal, using an outside antenna. Within 15 miles, you may only need an indoor antenna, preferably one that can be rotated and has a switchable amplifier built-in."
> 
> 
> Here in Poughkeepsie, I never had much luck with WABC off the VHF antenna since June 12, 2009, so I have a backup with the UHF antenna aimed north - WTEN, the ABC affiliate from Albany, NY. However I've heard that WABC is also raising their power on channel 7 - can anyone confirm this?



No wonder why I have such a great ABC signal, I live within a 5 minute walk of the Empire State Bldg. FOX signal still sux though.


----------



## Berk32

Just walked my parents thru setting up the standard cheap indoor antenna and the tv setting changes. With perfect placement, they were just able to find 7.1.


Their out on LI - about 25miles from the Empire State Building.


The government really should not have let any network move their digital signal to VHF.....


----------



## mikepier

Well this is wierd. This morning I was pulling in ABC with [email protected]% 24 miles away. Now I can't lock a signal. Anyone else notice problems? Kind of a coincidence with the Oscars starting within the hour.


----------



## dswenson

I agree... I'm in Suffolk county on Long Island, 32 miles from the ESB. Using a indoor silver sensor uhf antenna sitting on a table pointed west out the window (ground floor) I get around 20 channels including CBS, NBC and FOX. No ABC, WPIX or WNET (7, 11, 13). As much as I would like to get those channels I have no desire to spend any more cash for another antenna. Why couldn't they all be uhf? However with the current cablevision bs I'm inclined to drop them & go all OTA & use the savings for a roof mounted antenna.


----------



## reddice

Funny that I pull in FOX WNYW the strongest of the stations on the Empire State Building. Channels 4 and 11 are the weaker ones.


----------



## nordloewelabs

a couple of weeks ago i posted that i could for, the first time, get ABC with a decent signal. i didnt even have to play with the antenna much. on the other hand, i lost the weak PBS signal that i used to have.


well, last night i tried to tune to the Oscars and i could not get ABC at all. i spent 30min playing with the antenna and nothing! could ABC have "un-boosted" their signal yesterday back to February levels?


today, without even touching the antenna, i'm getting ABC at 100%....

has anyone else had this dramatic change in signal quality from yesterday to today?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18270542
> 
> 
> a couple of weeks ago i posted that i could for, the first time, get ABC with a decent signal. i didnt even have to play with the antenna much. on the other hand, i lost the weak PBS signal that i used to have.
> 
> 
> well, last night i tried to tune to the Oscars and i could not get ABC at all. i spent 30min playing with the antenna and nothing! could ABC have "un-boosted" their signal yesterday back to February levels?
> 
> 
> today, without even touching the antenna, i'm getting ABC at 100%....
> 
> has anyone else had this dramatic change in signal quality from yesterday to today?



I had the same problem yesterday. Went from 55% in the morning to 0 at night.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Berk32* /forum/post/18267900
> 
> 
> Just walked my parents thru setting up the standard cheap indoor antenna and the tv setting changes. With perfect placement, they were just able to find 7.1.
> 
> 
> Their out on LI - about 25miles from the Empire State Building.
> 
> 
> The government really should not have let any network move their digital signal to VHF.....



Too bad Cablevision made a deal just before the Oscars. All that work for nothing. Being over 70 miles away from NYC. I knew it would be impossible with an antenna. So I found streaming live. places on internet. Then I checked ABC on TV after 20 minutes and it was on.


All was just a scare. It is a shame they play with people.


The good thing was they offered a free payperview movie. No charge. For one day. So atleast I got a movie for today. Expires at midnight. They thought they would not have ABC.


----------



## nordloewelabs

could ABC have deliberately killed the OTA signal during the Oscars! it is 100% now! c'mom. that sucks.


----------



## SnellKrell

No way would or could Disney jeopardize its license by "killing" its OTA signal.


Additionally, many other cable companies rely on OTA reception to distribute WABC's signal.


----------



## nordloewelabs

well, it's odd that i can throw the antenna at any position now and i get ABC at 100%. yesterday i couldnt get it at all, despite all effort.


PBS still sucks... i wish they boosted their signal a little.


----------



## MTVhike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18273116
> 
> 
> could ABC have deliberately killed the OTA signal during the Oscars! it is 100% now! c'mom. that sucks.



I got the Oscars fine last night OTA. In fact, I get 7, 11, and 13 with no problem; I have many more problems with 2, 4, 5, and 9. (I do get 21, 25, and 50, so it's not a UHF problem).


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18273342
> 
> 
> well, it's odd that i can throw the antenna at any position now and i get ABC at 100%. yesterday i couldnt get it at all, despite all effort.



Today, up here in Middletown, NY 10940, I can not receive WABC 7.

Signal is way down, like they lowered power or changed the antenna pattern


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18273116
> 
> 
> could ABC have deliberately killed the OTA signal during the Oscars! it is 100% now! c'mom. that sucks.



NO my aunt got it at 98% signal. The OSCARS. Must of been something with you or area?


----------



## nordloewelabs

this doesnt make sense.... there was no bad weather. how can the signal be 100% one day and zero the next?


maybe the signal was restored 5-10min into the Oscars...(?) i was "playing" with the antenna during the red carpet warm-up and completely gave up once the time for the Oscars arrived. maybe that was the point at which the signal level went up.


well, no biggie. what really matters for me is PBS and it has looked bad since ABC got its signal boost. :-(


----------



## SnellKrell

I, also am having problems with WNET, which shares an antenna with 7 and 11, for

the past 3 or 4 weeks.


The reading on my SNR % meter has gone way down and the signal for me has become unstable. I've e-mailed WNET, let's see if I ever get a response.


----------



## reddice

Channel 7 PQ is back to normal again. I am watching last weeks Lost on it now OTA and it is much clearer than it was last week. Guess they boost the bandwidth for the Oscars. Lets hope they don't screw around with it again.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18280750
> 
> 
> this doesnt make sense.... there was no bad weather. how can the signal be 100% one day and zero the next?
> 
> 
> maybe the signal was restored 5-10min into the Oscars...(?) i was "playing" with the antenna during the red carpet warm-up and completely gave up once the time for the Oscars arrived. maybe that was the point at which the signal level went up.
> 
> 
> well, no biggie. what really matters for me is PBS and it has looked bad since ABC got its signal boost. :-(



Interference? Do you live near a airport? a power plant? Something big? All I can tell you is the signal was fine. So that leaves you or your area.



How far are you from ESB? You using indoor antenna?


----------



## nordloewelabs

it cannot be interference. i'm 9mi from ESB. no airports, no nothing.


but like i said, i played with the antenna for 30min, during the red carpet pre-show (the segment that immediately preceded the Oscars ceremony). once the time for the Oscars came (i think it was scheduled for 8:30pm), i gave up on ABC and "tuned" to Hulu to watch "Alfred Hitchcock Presents"! old, but great! 


so i dont know how good/bad the ABC signal was *during* the Oscars per se. all i know is: during the weeks that preceded the Oscars, ABC's signal was great, during the red carpet pre-show, it was zero, and since Monday, i'm getting 100% *again*!


P.S.: i dont watch ABC everyday so i dont know how often their signal fluctuates.


----------



## SnellKrell

Watched the entire Oscar show OTA - no problems - signal never stronger!


----------



## AloEuro

yeh, I watched that 7-1 Oscar night, good PQ solid OTA, too bad I fell asleep, who won the best picture ? never mind.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18285067
> 
> 
> yeh, I watched that 7-1 Oscar night, good PQ solid OTA, too bad I fell asleep, who won the best picture ? never mind.



_Wings_


----------



## keyboard21

The good thing about digital for us is the reception. We get all the main channels. I remember analog. The low numbers were terrible. 2 cbs (had alot of snow) 4 nbc (medimum snow) 5 fox (had some snow) Now all these channels are crystal clear. So we are happy for digital.


One thing we would like back is the HSN. I would think that since HSN makes a living off of TV. They would be on digital?


----------



## AloEuro

And you would want to have the HSN for entertainment or shopping purpose?

The entertainment is like Window shopping, right ?


----------



## SnellKrell

The good thing about digital in NY, at least for me, was before the transition when I was able to receive more channels and more often!


----------



## AloEuro

Now you have to share them with us, so you get less.

Still, the PQ is far better and reception far,far,far better if you get it, rain or snow no more -replaced by pixelation or worse


----------



## SnellKrell

You've missed my point - it had to do with digital in NY before the transition and after the transition.


I was not comparing analog to digital!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18300771
> 
> 
> And you would want to have the HSN for entertainment or shopping purpose?
> 
> The entertainment is like Window shopping, right ?



Yes my Aunt enjoys watching it.


----------



## keyboard21

As I said before we are lucky we get 33 including subs. ALL the Majors with a 90 plus signal. All from a indoor/outdoor antenna from 7 miles away.


With the dishpal she gets a full guide with show description. Almost like TVguide. Also the correct time.


So the benefits of digital for my aunt is great. Much better then analog.


Of course we are aware of people who lost stations. So we are thankful.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18300709
> 
> 
> One thing we would like back is the HSN. I would think that since HSN makes a living off of TV. They would be on digital?



They have a permit for channel 41 but it's not on the air yet.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

hsn makes most of its money thru cable and satellite distribution. in fact they know exactly where the sales come from. on your 1st purchase they ask what channel you view them on. also they have different 800 ordering numbers on some providers like verizon and satellite.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18300709
> 
> 
> The good thing about digital for us is the reception. We get all the main channels. I remember analog. The low numbers were terrible. 2 cbs (had alot of snow) 4 nbc (medimum snow) 5 fox (had some snow) Now all these channels are crystal clear. So we are happy for digital.
> 
> 
> One thing we would like back is the HSN. I would think that since HSN makes a living off of TV. They would be on digital?


----------



## alloyd50

Can someone recommend a good indoor antenna for OTA HDTV in Manhattan? Preferably no more than $50-60 and unobtrusively cool looking is a plus.


AntennaWeb recommends a Midrange Directional. Any thoughts?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alloyd50* /forum/post/18302119
> 
> 
> Can someone recommend a good indoor antenna for OTA HDTV in Manhattan? Preferably no more than $50-60 and unobtrusively cool looking is a plus.
> 
> 
> AntennaWeb recommends a Midrange Directional. Any thoughts?



Why don't you try a Terk/Audiovox HDTVi - this is an un-amplified, VHF/UHF antenna.


It's available for less than $30 - try to buy it at a place where it can be returned if it doesn't satisfy your needs.


It should work well for you.


Good luck!


----------



## nycdigital09

I remember when cable came around (twc) 1987 where i reside now. most of cable channels were advertisement free or very few commercials. i remember usa network ran no commercials, you paid cable tv, to watch programming without commercial, now all you see is commercial right after the another, I think hbo showtime are the only networks still left.


----------



## nycdigital09

Can someone recommend a good indoor antenna for OTA HDTV in Manhattan? Preferably no more than $50-60 and unobtrusively cool looking is a plus.


AntennaWeb recommends a Midrange Directional. Any thoughts?


yes get a terk 1 antenna, ($10) is a great little antenna, i get all my hd channels clearly, with a strong signal, also im surrounded by buildings on all sides. im bout 7 miles from esb. strongly recommend


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18302116
> 
> 
> hsn makes most of its money thru cable and satellite distribution. in fact they know exactly where the sales come from. on your 1st purchase they ask what channel you view them on. also they have different 800 ordering numbers on some providers like verizon and satellite.



Last number I heard there were 34 million on OTA. That number is nothing to sneeze at. They need to be OTA


TW is 12 million, Cablevision is 3.1 million. See the difference? I do


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18301638
> 
> 
> They have a permit for channel 41 but it's not on the air yet.
> 
> 
> - Trip



How long does a permit take? How long has it been in submitted?



ty


----------



## reddice

I ordered the RCA ANT751 from Amazon. Has anyone used a outdoor antenna indoors? I would like to try it indoors because it will take a while to put it outdoors. If I get good reception indoors I might just leave it inside. I am on the top 3rd floor.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18303377
> 
> 
> How long does a permit take? How long has it been in submitted?
> 
> 
> 
> ty



Once a CP is issued by the FCC, the station has three years to build it. It's up to the station how fast they actually get it done which will depend on money, equipment availability/leadtime, money, work crew scheduling, and money.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18303381
> 
> 
> I ordered the RCA ANT751 from Amazon. Has anyone used a outdoor antenna indoors?





 


boom length: 65"

mounted to a camera tripod.

the direction it faces depends on the station i'm trying to get.

i get all stations very well, except:

CW-11 (30%) and PBS-13 (40%).


before ABC-7 boosted its signal, PBS used to come at a decent 70%.


----------



## nyctveng

LATV will be gone by 3/22. wpix has removed all references to it on their website.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18225153
> 
> 
> Talk about an overreaction to a rumor...
> 
> 
> And LATV was better when they were mostly English speaking, imo. They used to have a show that made fun of alot of the Spanish-language programming out there and now in many ways, they've become what they used to mock.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18305190
> 
> 
> LATV will be gone by 3/22. wpix has removed all references to it on their website.




Yep. I saw a mention of that in my latest Cablevision bill that the channel was being removed from their lineup. Maybe those bits will go back to the main channel but somehow I doubt it. They'll just find something else to put there.


----------



## AloEuro

" As I said before we are lucky we get 33 including subs. " Certainly, you don't

include the 9 of 39, 2 of 39 is okay since they differentiate programming


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18305190
> 
> 
> LATV will be gone by 3/22. wpix has removed all references to it on their website.



I'm not a gambler, but if I was, my money would be on LATV being replaced with This TV. Any takers?










- Trip


----------



## nordloewelabs

i hope you're right.... even though my CW-11 reception sucks.


----------



## Trip in VA

The reason I suggest it is that This TV has New York as a "coming soon" market on its listings, and I was told that when new markets show up on that list, they're added within four weeks.


- Trip


----------



## jmsnyc

These are This TV shows:


> Quote:
> A Miss Mallard Mystery
> 
> Bat Masterson
> 
> C.L.Y.D.E
> 
> Country Mouse and the City Mouse Adventures, The (E/I)
> 
> Emily of New Moon
> 
> Green Screen Adventures (E/I)
> 
> Horseland (E/I)
> 
> Journey to the West
> 
> Liberty's Kids (E/I)
> 
> Mister Ed
> 
> Misterjaw
> 
> Mummies Alive!
> 
> Potatoes and Dragons
> 
> Roland and Ratfink
> 
> Sea Hunt
> 
> Spider Riders
> 
> Stargate SG-1
> 
> The Outer Limits
> 
> The Patty Duke Show
> 
> The Pink Panther
> 
> The Pink Panther & Friends: The Ant & The Aardvark
> 
> Wimzie's House (E/I)
> 
> Wonderful Wizard of Oz (cartoon)



At least there are some shows I might watch. LATV I watch nothing as I unfortunately don't speak Spanish.


Just watched Outer Limits on 55. Does 55 broadcast in HD. I only pick it up through the cable coaxial.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18307200
> 
> 
> The reason I suggest it is that This TV has New York as a "coming soon" market on its listings, and I was told that when new markets show up on that list, they're added within four weeks.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Do you have a link to that coming soon list?


I e-mailed them for weeks and no reply. Not very nice customer service


On their website it said "coming to" Then asks you to sign up for a news letter.


What am I missing? link pls


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18305847
> 
> 
> " As I said before we are lucky we get 33 including subs. " Certainly, you don't
> 
> include the 9 of 39, 2 of 39 is okay since they differentiate programming



huh?


----------



## keyboard21

We all hope this TV comes to NY. Kinda pissed they never responded in weeks.


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18307727
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to that coming soon list?
> 
> 
> I e-mailed them for weeks and no reply. Not very nice customer service
> 
> 
> On their website it said "coming to" Then asks you to sign up for a news letter.
> 
> 
> What am I missing? link pls



If you go to their website and use the channel selector list on the right you will see coming soon.


I tried to use their email form too. It wasn't displaying correctly in either FF or IE. Oh well, its not that important to me though I would not mind gaining an extra channel.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/18307783
> 
> 
> If you go to their website and use the channel selector list on the right you will see coming soon.
> 
> 
> I tried to use their email form too. It wasn't displaying correctly in either FF or IE. Oh well, its not that important to me though I would not mind gaining an extra channel.



Maybe I am not too smart? I still do not see what your talking about. What channel selector? Do you mean local stations? It just says "Coming TO" When I put in NYC. Been that way for a long time I believe


Please point out on this picture on where I should click


ty


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18307962
> 
> 
> Maybe I am not too smart? I still do not see what your talking about. What channel selector? Do you mean local stations? It just says "Coming TO" When I put in NYC. Been that way for a long time I believe
> 
> 
> Please point out on this picture on where I should click
> 
> 
> ty



you are correct - i just saw the "coming to" as well - it probably appears on all markets where there is no service - so not sure what Trip is basing his speculation on


----------



## Trip in VA

There are plenty of markets that are not listed. It has shown up in markets shortly after appearing on that list, or so I've been told.


Bluefield WV, for instance, is not listed, while Rockford IL is of similar size and is listed.


- Trip


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18308162
> 
> 
> There are plenty of markets that are not listed. It has shown up in markets shortly after appearing on that list, or so I've been told.
> 
> 
> Bluefield WV, for instance, is not listed, while Rockford IL is of similar size and is listed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hopefully you are correct.


----------



## Trip in VA

I hope so too. I've been wrong before, but hopefully this time I'm not.










- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18308162
> 
> 
> There are plenty of markets that are not listed. It has shown up in markets shortly after appearing on that list, or so I've been told.
> 
> 
> Bluefield WV, for instance, is not listed, while Rockford IL is of similar size and is listed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I truly hope you are right, but I thought I remembered that "Coming To" For NYC. It has been there a long time if my memory serves me correct. I hope I am remembering wrong? I do not think so.


I guess in 4 to 6 weeks we will know.



I just wished that they answer my e-mails.


Did anyone go on twitter or facebook and ask them about OTA in NYC?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/18307710
> 
> 
> Just watched Outer Limits on 55. Does 55 broadcast in HD. I only pick it up through the cable coaxial.



If you're talking about WNLY, nope. I'm guessing as small as the station is, they won't be anytime soon, if ever.


----------



## AloEuro

(Is) This TV ? from what you guys have shown it looks just another junked, recycled-

reruns, maybe kiddies shows, not for normal people.

Already missing the La-Flicks of LATV, I am too old for gangster movies but black comedies - spoof of spanish gangster flicks,sometime with subtitles, it's really fun to watch.

But (is) This TV ? wPIX-11 are you kidding me?


----------



## Trip in VA

This TV is mostly old MGM movies with a few other shows thrown in. I find quite a bit that I'd like to watch on their schedule, I simply have no time. (And when I'm at home from school and would have time, I don't have a local affiliate to watch.)


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

if anything i think this tv will appear on a WRNN subchannel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18308322
> 
> 
> I hope so too. I've been wrong before, but hopefully this time I'm not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18315987
> 
> 
> This TV is mostly old MGM movies with a few other shows thrown in. I find quite a bit that I'd like to watch on their schedule, I simply have no time. (And when I'm at home from school and would have time, I don't have a local affiliate to watch.)
> 
> 
> - Trip



My Aunt loves old movies and ION is now showing movies on 31.3 and 31.1 They are newish older movies lol This TV would be a great add on to what ION shows.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18316273
> 
> 
> if anything i think this tv will appear on a WRNN subchannel



That does not reach queens and would not help us.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18316983
> 
> 
> That does not reach queens and would not help us.



i doubt this tv has enough money to lease bandwith from a major station like WPIX. keep in mind their last affiliate was a tiny station out of bridgeport that have smaller reach than WRNN. WMBC is another possibility.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18317460
> 
> 
> i doubt this tv has enough money to lease bandwith from a major station like WPIX. keep in mind their last affiliate was a tiny station out of bridgeport that have smaller reach than WRNN. WMBC is another possibility.



yea what happened to the deal with bridgeport station? Fell apart right? That station still shows as a future station in NYC on tvfool. Under the pending stations


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18317460
> 
> 
> i doubt this tv has enough money to lease bandwith from a major station like WPIX. keep in mind their last affiliate was a tiny station out of bridgeport that have smaller reach than WRNN. WMBC is another possibility.



Um, This TV does not lease bandwidth. They do an ad split. And further, other Tribune stations like WPHL (CW17) in Philly, KTLA (CW5) in Los Angeles, WDCW (CW50) in Washington, etc do carry This TV, so there's already an existing relationship between This TV and Tribune.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

ok didnt know they do ad split. if that's the case then i would think PIX would have chose to replace this tv after latv is scheduled to go off and leave it on 11.2 rather than moving it to 11.3. less tech savvy OTA viewers i'm sure did not bother to scan after estrella was moved from 11.3 to 11.2. also cable companies have already announced dropping latv with no replacement. my guess is PIX will just have estrella as a sub channel after next week. do u know if any other tribune stations have more than 1 sub? latv now looks little better than a webstream at this point.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18318105
> 
> 
> Um, This TV does not lease bandwidth. They do an ad split. And further, other Tribune stations like WPHL (CW17) in Philly, KTLA (CW5) in Los Angeles, WDCW (CW50) in Washington, etc do carry This TV, so there's already an existing relationship between This TV and Tribune.
> 
> 
> - Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

Local TV and Tribune are now pretty much under the same management. Among the whole group, only a single station, WQAD, has more than one SD sub (besides WPIX at present).


You could certainly be right. I wonder if there was a reason besides PQ that they decided to drop LATV.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

when is LATV going off the air on 11.3 what date?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18319414
> 
> 
> ok didnt know they do ad split. if that's the case then i would think PIX would have chose to replace this tv after latv is scheduled to go off and leave it on 11.2 rather than moving it to 11.3. less tech savvy OTA viewers i'm sure did not bother to scan after estrella was moved from 11.3 to 11.2. also cable companies have already announced dropping latv with no replacement. my guess is PIX will just have estrella as a sub channel after next week. do u know if any other tribune stations have more than 1 sub? latv now looks little better than a webstream at this point.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18319782
> 
> 
> when is LATV going off the air on 11.3 what date?



It's leaving the Cablevision system on the 23rd, so I'm guessing that's the day it leaves OTA.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18322830
> 
> 
> It's leaving the Cablevision system on the 23rd, so I'm guessing that's the day it leaves OTA.



OK cool, TY


Does cablevision show any replacement for 11.3?



Maybe I will try to email channel 11? See what happens?


This TV never got back to me


EDIT, Called Cablevision they are showing the 22nd of this month. For Off Air. They also said nothing to reoplace it at this time. Guess it is a wait and see


----------



## johnosolis

On the previous page is a photo of an outdoor antenna mounted on a tripod. That got me thinking I should share what I did this week. I've been repainting and remodeling the closet.


I took the old fashioned solid wood closet bar out and instead of throwing it away, I painted it the same color as the living room walls. Then, I put a metal hook on one end and a metal hook in the ceiling near the "sweet spot" in the corner. I mounted the DB-2 antenna from Antennas Direct, which is essetially an outdoor antenna, but often used indoors.


Now, I have a long pole with the antenna at the top. I can walk around the room with it and point it in any direction. I have it hanging from the ceiling hook. I found that by turning it 180 degrees, I am able to get 11.1 and 31.1, which I previously could not watch. Doing so, I don't lose the other channels, so I just leave it in that position now.


Also, I hung a length of swag chain from the ceiling hook in order to adjust the height of the antenna. I can hang the antenna pole from any link to keep it at any height. If I'm having any problem with an important broadcast, like the Superbowl, I am free to adjust the antenna position in several different ways, or even ask someone to stand in the corner and point the antenna where it needs to go!


It looks a little odd, but not outlandishly so. The long white pole reminds me of the one my elementary school teachers used to open and close the high windows and shades when I was a kid.


----------



## SnellKrell

I'll keep your secret and not tell Martha Stewart!


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18326722
> 
> 
> On the previous page is a photo of an outdoor antenna mounted on a tripod. That got me thinking I should share what I did this week. I've been repainting and remodeling the closet.



better yet: post a picture as well!


----------



## AloEuro

I think that for wPIX11 to drop LATV is big mistake, with LATV they are more attractive

than the ratings would show, if any. Without LATV the PIX is less watchable.

Whatever they get I just hope it is not going to be another Buffy or UFO - unidentified flying oxen


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18327577
> 
> 
> I think that for wPIX11 to drop LATV is big mistake, with LATV they are more attractive
> 
> than the ratings would show, if any. Without LATV the PIX is less watchable.
> 
> Whatever they get I just hope it is not going to be another Buffy or UFO - unidentified flying oxen



Is WPIX dropping LATV, or is LATV going out of business everywhere?


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18327577
> 
> 
> I think that for wPIX11 to drop LATV is big mistake, with LATV they are more attractive
> 
> than the ratings would show, if any. Without LATV the PIX is less watchable.
> 
> Whatever they get I just hope it is not going to be another Buffy or UFO - unidentified flying oxen




Less attractive to whom? I'd like to see them run some older english language shows such as the Honeymooners on a regular schedule on their HD2 or HD 3 channels. Too bad they probably don't have the old Creature Features films or Officer Joe Bolton or Captain Jack Mccarthy shows. now that would be fun to watch again.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/18328141
> 
> 
> Is WPIX dropping LATV, or is LATV going out of business everywhere?



WPIX is dropping it.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18329115
> 
> 
> WPIX is dropping it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Cablevision told me no replacement at this time. Of course what do Operators know. During the Oscars fiasco. They told me to get an antenna for CBS. I said over 70 miles away? Your kidding right.


----------



## SnellKrell

Even if you were only 5 miles away, an antenna to pick up CBS to watch the Oscars wouldn't do much for you since the Oscar telecast has been on ABC for years!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18327577
> 
> 
> I think that for wPIX11 to drop LATV is big mistake, with LATV they are more attractive
> 
> than the ratings would show, if any. Without LATV the PIX is less watchable.
> 
> Whatever they get I just hope it is not going to be another Buffy or UFO - unidentified flying oxen



Noone is gonna miss LATV when 'PIX drops it.


----------



## nordloewelabs

i'm eagerly awaiting the debut of ThisTV in NYC.









i wish ABC dropped both LivWell and Weather in favour of RetroTV (in SD).


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18330827
> 
> 
> Even if you were only 5 miles away, an antenna to pick up CBS to watch the Oscars wouldn't do much for you since the Oscar telecast has been on ABC for years!



ooopppppsss but you get the idea


----------



## AloEuro

Gentlemen, it's obvious to me that at 1:30 or 2:am morning you have sweet dreams as you deserve good night sleep.

Do you know what more than 30 ch. of this digital era are showing at that hour? With exception of couple religious ch.there is only 1 film wPIX11-3 LATV the L-Flicks, black comedies often with subtitles.

All other ch., with exception here and there now and then, the principals and subs are showing buy, buy, buy, bye, bye, bye.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18332137
> 
> 
> i'm eagerly awaiting the debut of ThisTV in NYC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i wish ABC dropped both LivWell and Weather in favour of RetroTV (in SD).



i was shocked to see LIVWELL in HD what a waste. They should add THIS TV OR RETRO


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18342842
> 
> 
> i was shocked to see LIVWELL in HD what a waste. They should add THIS TV OR RETRO



Well This tv never answered 2 e-mails. Quite rude and not nice. You take time to write them only to be ignored.


Now trying WPIX. Will see if they answer


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18328623
> 
> 
> Less attractive to whom? I'd like to see them run some older english language shows such as the Honeymooners on a regular schedule on their HD2 or HD 3 channels. Too bad they probably don't have the old Creature Features films or Officer Joe Bolton or Captain Jack Mccarthy shows. now that would be fun to watch again.



Certaily BW shows are okay if they are good, worse yet - they would be syndicated at prices cash driven affiliates could not afford.

For brief time afternoon I saw on subs 11-2,3 English reruns shows, so your wish, my loss, may come true, enjoy.

The men have hockey, real futbol-FIFA, fake futbol-NFL, the little ball and

big ball for basket, etc.

The housewives have soap operas- good therapeutic tool to keep their

sanity, energies flowing etc.

The well to do and porngraphers have cable-direct TV to have good times in

spare time, in secret on job etc.

The girls and unattached ladies have their HSN for window shopping of their

dowries,meditating on their wedding which may never come.

And WPIX11 have LATV, and now the out of towners yankees from second

city want to yank it as they have done surely many times before.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18343902
> 
> 
> Well This tv never answered 2 e-mails. Quite rude and not nice. You take time to write them only to be ignored.
> 
> 
> Now trying WPIX. Will see if they answer



If they don't answer 2nd e-mail, use trick - write them in spanish.


----------



## nordloewelabs

just out of curiosity, i decided to double-check the programming of CW's sub-channels now (i had tried those subs a few times months ago).... i used www.TitanTV.com to check the full programming of LATV and Estrella till Thursday. TitanTV is free and no sign-up is needed.


neither LATV nor Estrella have English-spoken shows.... that's why many here favour RetroTV and ThisTV. maybe LATV can be allocated under Univision, Telemundo or Futura.... dont they have room for a new sub in SD?


that would be a nice solution.


----------



## keyboard21

I am not sure if this is new programing on 4.2 NBC. It is new to me and I thought I mention it.


It seems that 4.2 is now broadcasting some CNBC, CMBC, NBC, My9 and CNN shows?


I am seeing on my guide info


Shows:


The wall street Journal report


Law & order


my 9 news


The bernie mac show


Malcom in the middle


Meet the press


The chris matthews show



Seems that this NBC sub is now showing other programing. Other then just shows made for this sub station. This looks new to me. I think it is a great Idea. Better then just NY shows (places to eat) 24/7


Is this new? If not how long this has been going on?


Does anyone else notice this?


----------



## nordloewelabs

the TitanTV guide does not show any change.

same programming as always....


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18352510
> 
> 
> I am not sure if this is new programing on 4.2 NBC. It is new to me and I thought I mention it.
> 
> 
> It seems that 4.2 is now broadcasting some CNBC, CMBC, NBC, My9 and CNN shows?
> 
> 
> I am seeing on my guide info
> 
> 
> Shows:
> 
> 
> The wall street Journal report
> 
> 
> Law & order
> 
> 
> my 9 news
> 
> 
> The bernie mac show
> 
> 
> Malcom in the middle
> 
> 
> Meet the press
> 
> 
> The chris matthews show
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that this NBC sub is now showing other programing. Other then just shows made for this sub station. This looks new to me. I think it is a great Idea. Better then just NY shows (places to eat) 24/7
> 
> 
> Is this new? If not how long this has been going on?
> 
> 
> Does anyone else notice this?



No!


"Wall Street Journal Report"


"Meet the Press"


"The Chris Matthews Show"


are all properties owned by NBC Universal; the shows you listed that play on WWOR are licensed in the New York Market to News Corp., the station's owner and cannot, will not and do not play on 4.2!


No way!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18352570
> 
> 
> No!
> 
> 
> "Wall Street Journal Report"
> 
> 
> "Meet the Press"
> 
> 
> "The Chris Matthews Show"
> 
> 
> are all properties owned by NBC Universal; the shows you listed that play on WWOR are licensed in the New York Market to News Corp., the station's owner and cannot, will not and do not play on 4.2!
> 
> 
> No way!



So how do you explain me just watching the WALL STREET Journal report?


I just looked at my TV guide ON THE TV. These are some of the shows showing up. meet the press is at 9pm and 10 pm is Chris Mathews. If it does not show up in 30 minutes I will let you know


Maybe my TV guide is going bonkers? The guide is correct with the show on now. give and take with julie menin


I am not lying, So I guess we will see


Punked is showing up at 2 am



EDIT:



It must be my tv that is going nuts? I went to yahoo TV and did see



"Wall Street Journal Report"


"Meet the Press"


"The Chris Matthews Show"



Are these shows new for 4.2?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18352998
> 
> 
> So how do you explain me just watching the WALL STREET Journal report?
> 
> 
> I just looked at my TV guide ON THE TV. These are some of the shows showing up. meet the press is at 9pm and 10 pm is Chris Mathews. If it does not show up in 30 minutes I will let you know
> 
> 
> Maybe my TV guide is going bonkers? The guide is correct with the show on now. give and take with julie menin
> 
> 
> I am not lying, So I guess we will see
> 
> 
> Punked is showing up at 2 am



I mentioned that "Wall Street Journal" and the other shows that are owned by NBC Universal - yes - but the other shows, the ones that are on channel 9- no way.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18353020
> 
> 
> I mentioned that "Wall Street Journal" and the other shows that are owned by NBC Universal - yes - but the other shows, the ones that are on channel 9- no way.



Could be my TV is messed up. Seemed impossible. That is why I posted in the first place



Also are the NBC shows a NEW ADD ON to 4.2 You ignore that question? I asked before.


----------



## SnellKrell

No!


----------



## AloEuro

I have made referrence to it couple months ago when I was suggesting that CBS2-4

should get sub for reruns of 60 minutes, McL...show and other politically related shows in head on competition with Prime time reruns on NBC4-2 Meet the press, The Chris Matthews Show and other NBCproperties.

The Wall Street Journal Report is comparatively new 2-3wks, probably syndicated


----------



## AloEuro

So the 11-3 LATV is off the air,now there are only wPIX11-1,2.

But I checked the Estrilla EPG, interesting arrangement, the 11-2 is still listed as LATV and underneath is Estrilla. True, they do not give names of shows in EPG/Info, but

the general shows are listed in 2hours intervals from morning to night.

Today from 8-10 some provocative movie, no subtitles. it looks to me that Estrilla andLATV may be splitting time and revenue of their portion, also the movies on Estrilla are listed as L-Flicks of LATV.

This tv tandem of Estrilla/LATV could be powerful combination of bi-lingual movie channel competing not only for spanish audience, hope I am right.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18352510
> 
> 
> I am not sure if this is new programing on 4.2 NBC. It is new to me and I thought I mention it.
> 
> 
> It seems that 4.2 is now broadcasting some CNBC, CMBC, NBC, My9 and CNN shows?
> 
> 
> I am seeing on my guide info
> 
> 
> Shows:
> 
> 
> The wall street Journal report
> 
> 
> Law & order
> 
> 
> my 9 news
> 
> 
> The bernie mac show
> 
> 
> Malcom in the middle
> 
> 
> Meet the press
> 
> 
> The chris matthews show
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that this NBC sub is now showing other programing. Other then just shows made for this sub station. This looks new to me. I think it is a great Idea. Better then just NY shows (places to eat) 24/7
> 
> 
> Is this new? If not how long this has been going on?
> 
> 
> Does anyone else notice this?



What? I never saw any of those shows.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18358420
> 
> 
> What? I never saw any of those shows.



Seems my TV guide on my TV is wacky. Meet the press and Chris Mathews is showing on Yahoo TV website


----------



## AloEuro

Looks like CBS2-1 have been bounced from 2-4 to 2-5, some conv.boxes enter 2 go

to 42-1 Daystar, more complicated boxes go to 2-1CBS.

Seems Korean 17-4 Audio has virus, hard to surf


----------



## yobiworld

No more latv!!


----------



## dagger666

what is going on with these stations, channel 5-1 is same as 5-2 and 9-1 same as 9-2 but the 9-1 is harder to get then 9-2







. Channel 11 still is almost impossible to pick up and 13 also, why the hell are they still on VHF and haven't gone back to UHF







? It takes a big wind to piggyback channel 11 single 14 miles so i can pick it up, this is crazy.


another strange thing is my TV is jumping to 5-2 before 5-1 when either you go directly or scan with the remote.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/18373547
> 
> 
> what is going on with these stations, channel 5-1 is same as 5-2 and 9-1 same as 9-2 but the 9-1 is harder to get then 9-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Channel 11 still is almost impossible to pick up and 13 also, why the hell are they still on VHF and haven't gone back to UHF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? It takes a big wind to piggyback channel 11 single 14 miles so i can pick it up, this is crazy.
> 
> 
> another strange thing is my TV is jumping to 5-2 before 5-1 when either you go directly or scan with the remote.



Channel mapping is why. 5-1 and 9-2 is on RF 44. 9-1 and 5-2 is on RF 38. That is why you can get one and not the other. That's exactly why they did it that way (so if you can get 38 and not 44, you still get MY9 and Fox5. Same if you can get 44 and not 38). Previously SD Ch. 9 was mapped as 5-2 and SD Ch. 5 was mapped as 9-2. They recently changed that and this is the result.


----------



## keyboard21

Anyone find out if something new will go on 11.3 WPIX?


I tried to e-mail this TV and WPIX and no answer at all. Very rude. Why have a contact us section if they do not return e-mails


----------



## AloEuro

Among the conv.boxes, in your oppinion which box is better the one having Full/Add scan 2 passing under 5 min. or the conv.box with 1 pass Full Scan or Add Scan less than 1 min.?

What do you think, what's your oppinion, gentlemen ?


----------



## LenL

I think there is a forum for converter boxes.


Anyway I have NO idea what you are talking about.


However I own 4 boxes: RCA, Channel Master, PAL and Zenith.


They all have their pros and cons. There are also websites that give reviews.


If your TV has S-Video input the Channel Master will give the best picture.


The PAL has features similar to the PALDVR.


----------



## raj2001

I put back up my antenna last week after I took it down last year. Looks like I might have to make a few changes, namely get a VHF antenna. 7 is the only VHF that really comes in here, I'm missing 11 and 13.


There's a local station WNJJ-LD that plays infomercials for health and beauty products 24x7. The problem is that it's on channel 41, so it wipes out WXTV-DT. No problem as my cable provider carries WXTV.


By the way I went to Target yesterday and they still had DTV converter boxes. So if you need one you can probably still pick up one.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18384973
> 
> 
> Anyone find out if something new will go on 11.3 WPIX?
> 
> 
> I tried to e-mail this TV and WPIX and no answer at all. Very rude. Why have a contact us section if they do not return e-mails



probably nothing. if they were going to put something on, they would have done it when LATV was dropped. other than the brief overlap of estrella and LATV, they've never had more than 1 subchannel so don't count them adding something.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18393341
> 
> 
> There's a local station WNJJ-LD that plays infomercials for health and beauty products 24x7. The problem is that it's on channel 41, so it wipes out WXTV-DT. No problem as my cable provider carries WXTV.



So WNJJ-LD is on the air now? Mapping to 41-1?


- Trip


----------



## LenL

Yup...my TV actually picks up both when I go up and down the channels. I see two 41.1s. One with infomercials and the other with latin programs.


----------



## Trip in VA

Ouch.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18393463
> 
> 
> probably nothing. if they were going to put something on, they would have done it when LATV was dropped. other than the brief overlap of estrella and LATV, they've never had more than 1 subchannel so don't count them adding something.



I was thinking the same. No e-mail reply from WPIX or This TV


So I guess nothing more for WPIX. Hope I am wrong


----------



## AloEuro

The bad weather had little affect on TV line up, ch.9wor was on 44,ch.13wnet had broken signal/pixelation, and wpix11 without LATV looks too empty - and they call it progress.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18409811
> 
> 
> The bad weather had little affect on TV line up, ch.9wor was on 44,ch.13wnet had broken signal/pixelation, and wpix11 without LATV looks too empty - and they call it progress.



I would of been satisfied if they answered my e-mail


----------



## AloEuro

The way mind of men but women as well works is the sense of curiosity, go to library with English text ,aske them to translate into spanish (or Korean) and they will do it for you for free,of course, and E-mail It to the station, see what will happen,

If they have somebody on staff who speak Espanol they may respond, if it is in English everybody, anybody can read it but as far they are concerned they have no time for silly things.

And if they do not have anybody who speaks Spanish on staff, and they received 100+spanish E-mail, next time they go to hire somebody they may require bilingual that is Hispanic person to be hired, comprende?


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18417092
> 
> 
> The way mind of men but women as well works is the sense of curiosity, go to library with English text ,aske them to translate into spanish (or Korean) and they will do it for you for free,of course, and E-mail It to the station, see what will happen,
> 
> If they have somebody on staff who speak Espanol they may respond, if it is in English everybody, anybody can read it but as far they are concerned they have no time for silly things.
> 
> And if they do not have anybody who speaks Spanish on staff, and they received 100+spanish E-mail, next time they go to hire somebody they may require bilingual that is Hispanic person to be hired, comprende?



Alo, I understand your perspective as someone who obviously speaks Spanish as a primary or secondary language.


Let's turn things around a bit though. How is it the Ch's 41, 47, 68, 39 don't have any English language programing on their HD 2 channels?


At one time channel 47 was an English language station with studios in the Mosque theater in Newark. None of the current Spanish language stations have HD 3 channels either. If you want more Spanish language programs in NY, may I suggest you start there.


I realize that our politicians don't have the nerve to open up for a vote or even debate, the fact that English is the official language of the United States, but for those of us who have lived here our entire lives, English is the official language of this country and all other languages are foreign.


No one is going into Mexico or any of the hemisphers Spanish language countries and insisting that they have English language stations. Once you get away from the Mexican border there are no English language stations in Mexico.


In the 1970's Mexico City had XEVIP which was all news in English but that is long gone. I'm not suggesting that we should only have English language broadcasters, but why should it be such a loss when an English language station doesn't contain a Spanish language sub channel?


We could use more English stations in NYC. I can think of programing I'd like to see which isn't available any longer that would fit perfectly on one of the current sub channels.


----------



## LenL

Excellent points!


However as we both know it is a business and about making money. If money is to be made with Korean, Spanish etc centric broadcasting entrepreneurs will set up stations aimed at that market. If the market exists fine. If not the station will go away or the programming will.


Ditto for more English language OTA stations. If there is a market the stations will come. It may take more time but if the population of OTA viewers grows it will happen. On the otherhand if the OTA viewership declines there will be fewer OTA station options.


Its all about money and my understanding it there is not much in OTA. I hope OTA grows and I try to promote it with friends and family but a lot of people are hooked on ESPN and other programming only available on cable, FIOS or Satellite.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18421057
> 
> 
> Excellent points!
> 
> 
> However as we both know it is a business and about making money. If money is to be made with Korean, Spanish etc centric broadcasting entrepreneurs will set up stations aimed at that market. If the market exists fine. If not the station will go away or the programming will.
> 
> 
> Ditto for more English language OTA stations. If there is a market the stations will come. It may take more time but if the population of OTA viewers grows it will happen. On the otherhand if the OTA viewership declines there will be fewer OTA station options.
> 
> 
> Its all about money and my understanding it there is not much in OTA. I hope OTA grows and I try to promote it with friends and family but a lot of people are hooked on ESPN and other programming only available on cable, FIOS or Satellite.



I realize that what you are saying is correct Len. I have satellite service in my house and also a terrestrial antenna (which if the FCC gets its wish will be so much junk, once they sell off the remaining TV spectrum to the highest bidder) . By the way, the cable channels while fractionalizing the market each have a relatively low number of viewers when compared with the audience figures for ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS & Fox. Everything is relative. While Fox news boasts that they are the number one cable news network, numbers wise they'd be well seated in last place when compared with any of the major networks newscasts. Everythiing is relative of course.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18396399
> 
> 
> Yup...my TV actually picks up both when I go up and down the channels. I see two 41.1s. One with infomercials and the other with latin programs.



How is that possible? If both are on the same channel I don't think you can pick them up reliably, unless you get both of them part time which is really a mess. What was the FCC thinking when it granted these low power DTV licenses to useless infomercial stations on established channels anyway?


----------



## Trip in VA

WXTV is on 40, mapping to 41-1. WNJJ-LD is actually on 41 and apparently maps to 41-1 as well.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18424092
> 
> 
> WXTV is on 40, mapping to 41-1. WNJJ-LD is actually on 41 and apparently maps to 41-1 as well.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Oh that explains it. I mistakenly thought that WXTV moved to 41 post transition. I still have a few antenna issues to iron out here which is why I'm not getting them.


----------



## yobiworld

They moved Azteca TV to CH 63.6


----------



## raj2001

I looked at WNJJ on Google Earth, and it appears to be right next to the county line of Sussex and Morris counties, close to Lake Mohawk and about 10-15 deg (by my crude estimation) off my path to NYC.


I have to wonder if they were hoping to get placement on local cable systems since that would be a strategic place for them to do so.


I don't know if they have any future plans but looking at them in TSReader is almost comical, if not sad. 75% NULL packets and only one SD stream. What a waste of a 6MHz channel.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18429025
> 
> 
> I looked at WNJJ on Google Earth, and it appears to be right next to the county line of Sussex and Morris counties, close to Lake Mohawk and about 10-15 deg (by my crude estimation) off my path to NYC.
> 
> 
> I have to wonder if they were hoping to get placement on local cable systems since that would be a strategic place for them to do so.
> 
> 
> I don't know if they have any future plans but looking at them in TSReader is almost comical, if not sad. 75% NULL packets and only one SD stream. What a waste of a 6MHz channel.



Could you send me an HTML Export for it?


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

Sent


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks.










- Trip


----------



## reddice

I finally put up my roof antenna. It is the RCA ANT751. I have it pointed towards downtown Manhatten. Well the UHF channels like 2 and 4 and 9 come in better. I peak them in the 80's. Channel 31 is still a lost cause. Can barely get it around 50. I thought that channel was going to boost power because I think that it is pathetic that a channel that suppose to be full power I can barely get even outdoors yet I can now get that all infomercial low power station channel 64 stronger. Channel 41 I can finally get around the high 60's to 70's and channel 47 is really strong. The strongest. Channel 68 is also around the 80's.


The VHF channel 7 comes in the high 80's to sometimes 90's but channel 11 I don't see any improvement at all even with my old indoor Terk. I can only peak it in the mid 50's. Sometimes 60. I can't believe that channel has not boosted there power yet. Channel 13 suffers from great multipath issues. The day I put up the antenna it was going from the 60's down to the 40's. The next day it was not breaking up but still fluctuates a lot from the 50's to mid 60's. So except for channel 7 which I never had problems getting the other two channels there is no improvements actually channel 13 is worse.


Now I know I do have multipath issues as I will post pics later. Right where the antenna is pointing faces downtown Manhattan with all the tall buildings. I don't have a clear sight to the ESB.


----------



## Trip in VA

With as much multipath as you have, it may be beneficial to try pointing in different directions to see if there's a direction where maybe the reflections are more stable than the direct path. I've seen that happen more than once, especially when, as in your case, you don't have direct line of sight due to obstructions.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

trip, you took the words right out my mouth, i was gonna suggest the same thing, i went to my roof yesterday and turn my yagi north, and i got a better signal pointed towards ESB, I have buildings right across my street that block most of my signal, i cant get any new jersey stations, but its weird i point the yagi towards the buildings i can get wedw ch 49 plus all the upstate stations around 90-100 signal level. look you said trip maybe you can get a good signal from bouncing from surface. thats my two cents worth. lol


----------



## reddice

My uncle put up the antenna and he was inpacent. I was talking to him on my mobile phone while he was moving the antenna. I used channel 41 and channel 7 to peak the antenna. Channel 13 was breaking up bad that day but now the last few days it has been fine but fluctuating a lot from the 50's to 60's. Channel 11 right now is on the border line of breaking up and losing it. Getting it in the high 40's. On my set anything below 45 is a black screen.


----------



## reddice

Also the UHF channels are mainly in the high 70's to 80's except for channel 31 which is pathetic at best to try to get a good signal. Also forgot to say that channel 50 is bad now since it is pointing in a different direction but channel 66 is now the same signal strength in the 70's as channel 4 which are next to each other. RF 29 and RF 28.


----------



## DTVintermods

Is there Mobile DTV transmission now in NYC? If yes, which channel?

I believe that channels 36 (Telemundo) and 31 (Ion) experimented with mobile DTV. Did they hut this transmission down? If yes, Why?

Thanks,


----------



## Trip in VA

Last time I was in town (January) it was on WPXN-31 only. I did not receive WLNY-47 but I assume that was still up as well.


It was not present on WNJU-36, which had been operating as a test signal when they had two transmitters going.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

Thanks. Would a TSreader help in determining?


----------



## keyboard21

Anyone remember in the 80's that ship off of Long Island. They called it PIRATE RADIO. They played rock until they were stopped


Since no major station will do movies 24/7


How about PIRATE MOVIES ship lol


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes. Look for a bunch of data doing seemingly nothing at either PID 0x1eee or 0x1ff6; that's Mobile DTV.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18435677
> 
> 
> Yes. Look for a bunch of data doing seemingly nothing at either PID 0x1eee or 0x1ff6; that's Mobile DTV.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I don't have one...

Would you folks who own a TSreader please find who in NYC transmits Mobile DTV?

Thanks much.


----------



## raj2001

The CM4228 uses the reflective screen as the primary radiating element for VHF. It works at high VHF. Not as well as a log periodic or a long boom yagi, but it works.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/18435709
> 
> 
> I don't have one...
> 
> Would you folks who own a TSreader please find who in NYC transmits Mobile DTV?
> 
> Thanks much.



I'll check when I get home later (I forgot to carry my tuner stick with me today) but I'm pretty sure WPXN is still carrying mobile DTV.


----------



## nycdigital09

Hey everyone, i got to see thistv last night it was coming in skip from wtxx ch20 hartford ct. i got to see an outer limits episode, (things unknown) it was shown at 4 am last night. got to see the program promos. and movies theyre showing this month. is not too bad its watchable, i hoping like everyone, that it shows up in nyc ota lineup soon.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18447124
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, i got to see thistv last night it was coming in skip from wtxx ch20 hartford ct. i got to see an outer limits episode, (things unknown) it was shown at 4 am last night. got to see the program promos. and movies theyre showing this month. is not too bad its watchable, i hoping like everyone, that it shows up in nyc ota lineup soon.



What does coming in skip mean? You live in CT? Confused


----------



## reddice

Monday I made a mess out of the transformer that came with the antenna. It's defective to begin with. When you move the coax cable it would twist with it. Also one of the ends that connect to the antenna broke off. I walked to RadioShack and got a new one for $6 and it did improve reception. Channel 7 now stays in the high 80's and I even peaked it to 96.


Channel 11 was giving me major problems and last night I lost it completly. Today it is now coming in the mid 70's and it is stable but who knows for how long. For anyone who knows has channel 11 been running in reduced power because it sure seems like it was.


Channel 13 is still a frustration that I would like to end. It comes in the 60's but keeps fluctuating in the low 50's and sometimes 40's. At times it would start breaking up a lot for a few minutes then it would be fine. It is a bit better with the new transformer but still a major annoyance. I think that they are having reception problems must be a weaker signal and now it is not my antenna pointing because I get all the stations except channel 31 on the ESB strong.


----------



## SemiChemE

@keyboard21


Skip refers to refraction or reflection of a radio or television signal by the atmosphere, resulting in the the signal being received significantly beyond its intended reception area. This is usually a temporary occurrence resulting from favorable weather or ionospheric conditions.


Basically, nycdigital09, who presumably lives in NYC, is saying that he was able to watch the ThisTV signal from Hartford one night, even though he cannot normally receive that station.


(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_and_FM_DX )


----------



## nycdigital09

Semi very nice explanation of what E skip , I live in queens near lga. reddice, i seriously think your reception (multipath) might be worse than mine, thats saying alot i got high rises (buildings) no more than 50 ft from my location in direct path to esb. i usually point my uhf yagi due north towards westchester. I wish that i had bought a signal meter like trip, then i would know where to put my antenna ?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/18435709
> 
> 
> I don't have one...
> 
> Would you folks who own a TSreader please find who in NYC transmits Mobile DTV?
> 
> Thanks much.



OK so based on what Trip said WPXN is not doing mobile DTV anymore.


I'll send him my latest TSreader and see what he says.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18455040
> 
> 
> OK so based on what Trip said WPXN is not doing mobile DTV anymore.
> 
> 
> I'll send him my latest TSreader and see what he says.



My inbox is ready to accept TSReader data.










- Trip


----------



## raj2001

So it looks like I was wrong, the PID was 0x1ff9 and they (WPXN) are indeed transmitting mobile DTV... unfortunately my signal is fading a bit but I'll have a better signal later.


----------



## DTVintermods

*Raj2001 & Trip in VA:*

Thanks very much for your help.

WPXN is then the sole transmitter of Mobile DTV at this time but their service in NYC is very poor because their antenna is side-mounted on the ESB face well below the top mast.

Please let us know if you find out that other NYC stations start transmitting mobile DTV. I'll try to get a tuner...


----------



## AloEuro

R.F., because of the Easter Holy Days, I could not respond, but basically I agree with

you that the English language stations should have more English programming, but for

the spanish usually affiliates like 47 even for network like Univision41 to have Engl.

sub. as LenL has indicated would be prohibitively expensive- it is called mismanagement,must go,Alo


----------



## raj2001

I scanned everything I could pick up on my rabbit ears here in midtown manhattan. Only WPXN has mobile DTV thus far.


As for their signal strength, I have no problems picking them up 50 miles from the ESB. WNYW is a different matter though.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18458387
> 
> 
> R.F., because of the Easter Holy Days, I could not respond, but basically I agree with
> 
> you that the English language stations should have more English programming, but for
> 
> the spanish usually affiliates like 47 even for network like Univision41 to have Engl.
> 
> sub. as LenL has indicated would be prohibitively expensive- it is called mismanagement,must go,Alo



I agree with you totaly Alo.Ch 47 is owned by NBC, not some mom and pop. their audience deserevs to be serevd fully. I have no problem with every TV station having Spanish subtitles (or Russian or any other language). I also believe it would be great if stations used some of their digital bandwidth to provide multiple language translations for their programs. There's so much that can be done to exetnd TV programs to more people without turning the TV landscape into an us vs them arena.


Also, happy belated Easter to you and your family Alo.


----------



## ramonv

Telefutura (Channel 68) is airing "El Capo" (Colombian TV series produced by FOX and Telecolombia) with English Subtitles and in HD.


Also from 8-11PM the telenovelas from Channel 47 include English subtitles, some reruns at daytime also include the subs.


The English subtitles are on Closed Caption 3 (CC3). Telemundo has been doing this since 2002.


----------



## AloEuro

R.F., you have indicated that you have some ideas about the TV programming that some of the TV stations could do, what is it ?

I've got from BPL some new release of MI-5 probably 6 Volume 1DVD-2 one hour episodes of BBC, shockingly good, well written Rusian spies/terrorists-jihadists kind of stories a la Alias, it is as if they are begging to be picked up by TV stations, really worthy, good shows - would be good on 9 or 11- even 5ch to fill their subs.

Or the cult following French high octane action thriller film like 'District B13' I and sequel II, bad cops -with exceptions,gangs, hero - antiheros, hero is chased on foot he jumps out of window catches emergency ready rope slides down runs away - gangster see it, says to himself ,you do it-I can do it, jumps out and misses - on 8th floor. only french can think it.

or the Rusian Brother 1and 2,must go


----------



## reddice

Channel 11 & 13 & 31 are now breakup city. Pathetic even with a outdoor antenna they are not reliable. 7 stronger than ever. Typing this on my ipod so I can't day much.


----------



## speedlaw

I'm 40 miles north of NYC, on the Hudson river. I am lucky and get all NY digital channels with no real issues. CBS is 100, and the worst is 13 with 87. The on roof antenna is overkill for my distance, but allows me to split the signal four ways without an amp. I use quality splitters, properly terminated and the antenna is correctly grounded.


I used to get NJN weakly but readably. It was off axis for the NY stations, but I was able to get it every fall and winter, only losing it when the trees bloomed in spring. I watched the signal strength drop slowly, where my three oldest tuners would lose it in "age order" and finally my widescreen tuner would lose it. There is a large difference between my US Digital first gen tuner, the Sony HD 250 second gen, and the tuner in the Panasonic set.


NJN is now gone. I don't even get the unwatchable signal I used to get before. All other channels are as before, and there were no other changes in my antenna system. Even the best tuner does not see any signal at all.


Has NJN changed power, antenna patterns or locations ? I miss my Motorweek (actually just the car tests at the track) and WNET 13 does not carry Motorweek-or Tracks Ahead (rail buff too)


Thanks !


----------



## nycdigital09

The on roof antenna is overkill for my distance, but allows me to split the signal four ways without an amp. I use quality splitters, properly terminated and the antenna is correctly grounded.



speedlaw what antenna are you using thats overkill from 40 miles out, are you using a preamp, which kind, i like to know cos i might be moving upstate


----------



## reddice

Might try a amp 4miles and 11, 13 & 31 are so weak. No PBS in HD for me.


----------



## atebit

Hi, I hope I am positing this in the right place. I am a noob to the whole OTA thing in NYC. I'm trying to work a system I "inherited" in the Bronx that uses a set of four Scientific Atlanta 9887 (aka Sencore 9854) receivers for OTA.


Three of the boxes are capable of receiving two channels, one box has only one tuner. The channels I'm trying to work are WCBS (33), WNBC (28), WNYW (44), WABC (7), WWOR (38), WPIX (11) and WNET (13).


I'm still trying to get information on the antenna(s) being used, what direction their pointed in, etc.


The SA9987 tuners don't have any "channel scan" functionality; basically all you can do is set it to a channel and see how well it tunes. I've been using antennaweb.org for my frequency information. However, a little farther down in the system I'm able to see the major/minor channels that are on the frequency that each tuner is receiving.


Generally, the system works pretty well, but there are occasional problems where one channel will be fine one day, dead the next day, then back to being fine the following day, with AFAIK no changes made to the antennas.


Over this past weekend, for a while it looked like the tuner that was on WABC 7 was playing out infomercials, but again AFAIK no changes were made to the tuners or the antennas.


So the long-story-short noob question is, are terrestrial channels in NYC "unstable" like this by nature? I know things were a little crazy around last June, but I would think that by now things would've stabilized a bit?


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atebit* /forum/post/18469487
> 
> 
> Hi, I hope I am positing this in the right place. I am a noob to the whole OTA thing in NYC. I'm trying to work a system I "inherited" in the Bronx that uses a set of four Scientific Atlanta 9887 (aka Sencore 9854) receivers for OTA.
> 
> 
> Three of the boxes are capable of receiving two channels, one box has only one tuner. The channels I'm trying to work are WCBS (33), WNBC (28), WNYW (44), WABC (7), WWOR (38), WPIX (11) and WNET (13).
> 
> 
> I'm still trying to get information on the antenna(s) being used, what direction their pointed in, etc.
> 
> 
> The SA9987 tuners don't have any "channel scan" functionality; basically all you can do is set it to a channel and see how well it tunes. I've been using antennaweb.org for my frequency information. However, a little farther down in the system I'm able to see the major/minor channels that are on the frequency that each tuner is receiving.
> 
> 
> Generally, the system works pretty well, but there are occasional problems where one channel will be fine one day, dead the next day, then back to being fine the following day, with AFAIK no changes made to the antennas.
> 
> 
> Over this past weekend, for a while it looked like the tuner that was on WABC 7 was playing out infomercials, but again AFAIK no changes were made to the tuners or the antennas.
> 
> 
> So the long-story-short noob question is, are terrestrial channels in NYC "unstable" like this by nature? I know things were a little crazy around last June, but I would think that by now things would've stabilized a bit?



If you inherited the system, I'd check the antennas first-rule out a loose connection at the antenna, as some folks don't really weatherproof the connections. Electrical tape and silicone are your friends, and make sure the wire is physically secured (zip ties !). The channels are usually there or not. Seasonal changes are slow, not 0-70-10-100 day by day.


----------



## reddice

Good luck with 13 I now lost it completly.


----------



## thnmnt

Well I've _mostly_ been enjoying OTA reception in brooklyn - via my TivoHD (buh-bye Time Warner!). However, a couple of things are still bugging me from perfect reception nirvana.


Firstly, I was recommended here to buy the antennas direct db2 antenna, which I did, and mounted on my roof. The roof is a brownstone in boerum hill with no true line of site to the ESB - just a few buildings really, but one directly across the street from me. I thought that since the db2 was a multi-directional antenna that this would be a good thing.


But now, after exhaustive searching on this 'topic' (that should really be a separate forum







)I've read about multipath.


My main problem is with CBS 2.1 - It holds steady at about 67% and then will plummet - pixelate the screen for a second or two and then come back. I've had instances of this on 13.1 PBS as well but not as badly. I've done the tvfool thing and that other one and pointed my antenna in various directions but nothing seems to improve. Now I hear people saying that in locations/situations like mine a _Directional antenna_ is the way to go?


Since I've already got the mounting bracket attached to the chimney, getting a new antenna isn't that much of a hassle, but I'm wondering if anyone would care to chime in on this?


TIA


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thnmnt* /forum/post/18478703
> 
> 
> Well I've _mostly_ been enjoying OTA reception in brooklyn - via my TivoHD (buh-bye Time Warner!). However, a couple of things are still bugging me from perfect reception nirvana.
> 
> 
> Firstly, I was recommended here to buy the antennas direct db2 antenna, which I did, and mounted on my roof. The roof is a brownstone in boerum hill with no true line of site to the ESB - just a few buildings really, but one directly across the street from me. I thought that since the db2 was a multi-directional antenna that this would be a good thing.
> 
> 
> But now, after exhaustive searching on this 'topic' (that should really be a separate forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )I've read about multipath.
> 
> 
> My main problem is with CBS 2.1 - It holds steady at about 67% and then will plummet - pixelate the screen for a second or two and then come back. I've had instances of this on 13.1 PBS as well but not as badly. I've done the tvfool thing and that other one and pointed my antenna in various directions but nothing seems to improve. Now I hear people saying that in locations/situations like mine a _Directional antenna_ is the way to go?
> 
> 
> Since I've already got the mounting bracket attached to the chimney, getting a new antenna isn't that much of a hassle, but I'm wondering if anyone would care to chime in on this?
> 
> 
> TIA



Are you using RG6 or better HD cable? From the Antenna to your TV or Tivo box? Makes a difference in strength. About 5 points vrs regular coax cable. For me anyway.


----------



## raj2001

WNJN 50.1 is fine here in NWNJ. Apart from WNJJ they are my strongest signal.


I pass by the tower in Montclair every day so no it hasn't fallen down.










If you want to see the tower up close it's right next to the MSU train stop on NJ transit.


As for 47, hopefully when W36AZ (analog PBS) goes off air and switches to digital on another channel maybe I'll be able to pick up WNJU. But as it is not even the cable company will carry them, in fact the cable headend is right next to them.


----------



## nycdigital09

( WNJN 50.1 is fine here in NWNJ. Apart from WNJJ they are my strongest signal )


raj2001 I cant believe you can receive any signal from ESB from your location your on the other side of high point park. extreme northwest nj. you must be on high terrain. you can probably get scranton/wb stations if you turn your antenna opposite direction.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18480505
> 
> 
> ( WNJN 50.1 is fine here in NWNJ. Apart from WNJJ they are my strongest signal )
> 
> 
> raj2001 I cant believe you can receive any signal from ESB from your location your on the other side of high point park. extreme northwest nj. you must be on high terrain. you can probably get scranton/wb stations if you turn your antenna opposite direction.



I'm on the SE side of High point Park, so NYC is doable. If you look up my amateur radio callsign you'll see where I am. Heightwise I'm not the highest thing out here but I'm ~800ft AMSL which is good enough.


I receive everything from the ESB except for WNYW. But the catch is that the antenna has to be on top of my ham tower. Even on the roof I don't get much of anything.


I haven't tried Scranton/WB but that's on my todo list. I do get them via tropo from time to time though. A few times I even got WBNG from Binghamton.


----------



## AloEuro

Ever tried decoy antenna? Mount another old Analog era roof Ant.on 2-1 splitter or dead

pointed to ESB and the active Ant. 90degree 6-15 ft apart to the dead inactive, and

please, use also indoor Ant. 1-2 or more the main with rotating knob for cotrol


----------



## NervousCat

More people are pulling the plug on cable and considering OTA or Internet as alternatives. Check out this article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_gadg/ytech_gadg_tc1598 


Now check out this article from someone who has done it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/te.../10basics.html


----------



## dkreichen1968

Sorry about intruding into your topic, but we are all in this boat together.


The following are the links to a two part interview of Jim Goodmon, CEO of Capitol Broadcasting, by Broadcast Engineering Magazine. Jim Goodman was responsible for having the first digital HD television station back in 1996.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dvCwQ1ZAYs 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFce7SNf9jw 


He talks about former FCC Chairman Reed Hundt's (Clinton administration) conscious decision to undercut TV broadcasting by purposely delaying the digital transition, and current Chairman Julius Genachowski's academic mentor's plan to use oppressive government regulation to eliminate broadcasting.


Also, an interesting article was posted 4/12/2010 on the TVNewsCheck web site.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/04/12/daily.2/ 


It references an interview of Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg, which was given at a CFR general meeting.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/21834 


Basic points:


1. Technology will make spectrum use more efficient. (4G, etc.)


2. Efficiency is market driven.


3. The cable industry has bought about 150 MHz over the last 10-15 years that they aren't using.


4. Verizon supporting reallocation of broadcast spectrum would be motivated by selfish self interest, not by need!


Please come join us on the official FCC & Broadcast Spectrum topic:


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/18482275
> 
> 
> More people are pulling the plug on cable and considering OTA or Internet as alternatives. Check out this article.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_gadg/ytech_gadg_tc1598
> 
> 
> Now check out this article from someone who has done it.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/te.../10basics.html



Yes I read that today. Interesting. Too bad Conan is now on TBS. Guess they will never have a Antenna broadcast?


They are missing with over 35 million people in the USA.


----------



## reddice

I am back. Much easier now to type on a full size keyboad then on my iPod.


Channel 13 is still dead. Can't believe I can only get it as strong as it was when it was on RF 61 low 10's black screen that says low signal and with a outdoor antenna for peaks sake. Yes it did come in before a few days ago but with major breakups at times the same problem as thnmnt.


Channel 11 comes in good some days and bad others.


All the UHF channels on the ESB except channel 31 come in good mostly in the high 70's to low 80's. I really don't want to try to repoint the antenna to try to get channel 13 because right where it is channel 7 is in the 90's and the other channels come in fine.


I think it all has to do with location location. People have problems getting WNYW and WABC but they are the strongest for me. Others have no problem with WPXN, WPIX and WNET but they gives me major problems. Can't believe how bad digital is with reception. Yes it gives you a great picture but at least analog you had a picture which was poor quality but a picture still.


----------



## LenL

Announced that Emril Lagasse will be on with his cooking show. I might be wrong but I think it was on Sundays.


Just mentioning this because it's looking like there is beginning to be a crossover between cable programming and OTA. Let's hope this is the start of more cable programs coming over to OTA.


----------



## SnellKrell

Emeril's show on Ion premieres this Sunday, 4/18 at 8 p.m., EDT.


Your hope that there is now a trend for cable programs migrating to OTA is not the case!


Emeril lost his deal with Food Network. His shows were canceled!


And don't forget that both Oprah and Martha Stewart are leaving broadcast television for cable.


Unfortunately, the opposite of what you hope for is the reality.


----------



## LenL

I can still hope....maybe as cable shows get cancelled they will get picked up for OTA. I'm OK with that.


I suspect Emeril was asking too much money for the audiance/ratings. His food show with the band etc probably is costly to produce. There are cheaper options for the FOOD network.


Their loss is our gain. Although I prefer the food shows on PBS over Emeril.


----------



## reddice

Getting channel 13 back at the same signal strength again. Who knows for how long though. Typing on the iPod.


----------



## thnmnt

I use a TivoHD to tune in OTA. I get frequent pixelization on channel 13 - which is almost always 90%+


I've been trying to troubleshoot this issue for awhile, does this sound like multipath? are there tivoHD / OTA users who have any tips?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18489199
> 
> 
> I can still hope....maybe as cable shows get cancelled they will get picked up for OTA. I'm OK with that.
> 
> 
> I suspect Emeril was asking too much money for the audiance/ratings. His food show with the band etc probably is costly to produce. There are cheaper options for the FOOD network.
> 
> 
> Their loss is our gain. Although I prefer the food shows on PBS over Emeril.



People like my aunt are thrilled they are getting Emeril.


Also seems ION is doing less paid programing during the day. Maybe ION is becoming a player. Would be nice if TBC makes a deal for ION to show Conan on OTA. I know I am dreaming


Where is THIS TV? We need a movie/tv show station.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18489811
> 
> 
> Getting channel 13 back at the same signal strength again. Who knows for how long though. Typing on the iPod.



I thought maybe it was just you but I see I am having some issues with it too. Maybe they are doing something with their transmission. I will keep a closer eye on it. I was planning to record some of the shows but with the signal issues that won't happen.


----------



## nordloewelabs

PBS's signal has never been great, but it got noticeably worse after ABC boosted its signal. and someone here once said they share the same mast.


----------



## AloEuro

I wonder what happened to ch.39Azteca, lost them long ago, too much trouble to

access them moving Ant. perhaps to loose ION31


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18494297
> 
> 
> I wonder what happened to ch.39Azteca, lost them long ago, too much trouble to
> 
> access them moving Ant. perhaps to loose ION31




They moved it to WMBC CH 63.6


----------



## reddice

So true. Channel 7 is excellent now with the outdoor antenna. 13 is crap. Btw I lost it again today. At least I know it is not on my end because I am not moving that antenna.


----------



## AloEuro

yobiworld- thank you, I will try to access it in opportune time. Isn't ch. 17-1,2,3A-4A-5 Audio the Korean also wMBC? their programs carry MBC ? logo


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18493820
> 
> 
> PBS's signal has never been great, but it got noticeably worse after ABC boosted its signal. and someone here once said they share the same mast.



Hmmm. I'm getting my new VHF antenna soon (Winegard YA1713), but as of now I don't get them either. WABC7 is receivable on the UHF antenna no problems though.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18498563
> 
> 
> yobiworld- thank you, I will try to access it in opportune time. Isn't ch. 17-1,2,3A-4A-5 Audio the Korean also wMBC? their programs carry MBC ? logo



I don't think so.


17 carries MBC America which is different from WMBC.


----------



## reddice

Until they fix it no antenna can get 11 & 13 reliable.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18499223
> 
> 
> Until they fix it no antenna can get 11 & 13 reliable.



I guess location is the key. I live about 25 miles north of the city and get a solid signal on WNET. the only station that is marginal at times is WNJM (ch.50). My antenna is in the attic feeding 3 TV's, 1 digital convertor, & 2 FM receivers.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18499223
> 
> 
> Until they fix it no antenna can get 11 & 13 reliable.



Again my aunt is 7 miles from ESB. With an indoor/outdoor antenna. Terk 50


Solid Signal on channel 13. upper 90's


Must be your location


----------



## GSfromCT

Does anybody know the latest at WCBS?

Up here in CT, they are right on the threshold. I'm getting anywhere from a breakup every 5 minutes to nothing for 5 minutes.

Before the transition back in the days when WCBS was on channel 56, they were my second strongest signal. My first strongest being WEDW CPTV 49 out of Bridgeport.

I see a construction permit upping power for WCBS. Does anyone know when that may happen?

I have given up waiting for the Freedom Tower as I don't know if I'll see a TV transmission from that building in my lifetime.


Also, if anyone is interested:

I'm 62 miles from the ESB

WCBS - almost good to unwatchable

WNBC - solid all the time

WNYW - Solid all the time

WABC- Worse than CBS

WWOR - Solid

I also get 25 up here pretty well.


----------



## DTVintermods

WCBS is now on channel 33 and the most likely reason for your reception trouble is low SNR due to interference from WFSB-33 in Hartford.

To check and correct your trouble you'll need another antenna with a phasing loop such that together, both antennas produce a deep null toward WFSB.

You are right in giving up on WTC1, formerly known as the Freedom Tower.


----------



## SnellKrell

Also, WCBS was granted an increase in power to 426kW ERP this past November. Unfortunately, the station has not been able to raise its power to this level due to limitations concerning transmission lines and Combiner components. The hope was to have the modifications completed by May. Don't know where we are with that timetable.


----------



## GSfromCT

Thanks for the info. That extra power will help me. Hopefully it will happen in May/June.

I have never been able to get WFSB. I was hoping when they went to 1 Megawatt. Even then, as I have a hill blocking me and their stick is not too high, the most signal I got from that direction was like 4 to 5 on my meter. Right now WCBS is coming in at 52, and good reception happens at 54 - 55.


I anticipated a problem with channel 33 before transition. I have an antenna put up on the side of my house facing ESB (house blocking WFSB). This antenna is about 10 to 15 feet lower than my rooftop. I figured if I had on channel interference, this would block most of it. The side mounted antenna is actually worse for signal on Channel 33. I think I just need a little more power sent in my direction.

Why oh why did the FCC let both CBS stations in neighboring markets on the same channel? Jeesh.


----------



## SnellKrell

Stupidity!


----------



## Falcon_77

And yet, somehow, the FCC believes we can get by with even fewer channels!


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/18503756
> 
> 
> And yet, somehow, the FCC believes we can get by with even fewer channels!



I think they mean zero stations.


----------



## nycdigital09

Does anybody know the latest at WCBS?

Up here in CT, they are right on the threshold. I'm getting anywhere from a breakup every 5 minutes to nothing for 5 minutes.

Before the transition back in the days when WCBS was on channel 56, they were my second strongest signal. My first strongest being WEDW CPTV 49 out of Bridgeport.

I see a construction permit upping power for WCBS. Does anyone know when that may happen?

I have given up waiting for the Freedom Tower as I don't know if I'll see a TV transmission from that building in my lifetime.



gs from ct maybe you need a more directional antenna would help, do you have xg91 i get co channel interference from cbs 33 from ct, my cbs 2 breaks up alot, I've currently have uhf yagi on roof pointed towards ct. i get ch49 excellent, also wsah 43, poughkeepsies, 48, 54 late at night i get wtxx ch20.


----------



## SnellKrell

Look at Post #11270.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18505431
> 
> 
> gs from ct maybe you need a more directional antenna would help, do you have xg91 i get co channel interference from cbs 33 from ct, my cbs 2 breaks up alot, I've currently have uhf yagi on roof pointed towards ct. i get ch49 excellent, also wsah 43, poughkeepsies, 48, 54 late at night i get wtxx ch20.



I'm giving it all she got Captain. LOL

I have a CM 4248 very directional yagi pointed at ESB. I have a hill running roughly 0 to 180 degrees blocking most of the CT stations from Hartford.

I still manage to get some CT stations (WTNH, WTXX, WVIT, WCTX and also 43 and 49) bouncing through the Housatonic River Valley.

I'm only losing WCBS in the clouds or bad weather. When the clouds broke up a bit last night, I got a steady signal of 58 and a solid picture. The hee haw looked great, I just don't like that music. LOL

I am 1.1 miles from the channel 43 tower. I think I can get that station using my finger as an antenna.

I can't believe you get 48 and 54. WOW!

You probably have a good shot at WCTX59 (RF 39) and WTNH8 (RF10) both out of New Haven.


----------



## mikepier

I found a used Radio Shack VU-90XR someone was throwing out. It's missing one of the largest elements, but other than that, it was in good shape. So I mounted it on my chimney yesterday. Previously I had a cheap set of rabbit ears hanging outside with barely watchable signal.

Now I have every channel pegged at above 80% or better. I was impressed. This is 25 miles from the ESB on Long Island.

I now can pick up WNJN 50.1 and WNJB 8.1, signal is about 40-50%.


What's nice about the XR-90 is that it's not that big. But I know it will not stand up to the elements that well like all Radio Shack antennas, but hey it was free.

I'll post a pic later.


----------



## GSfromCT

IIRC, the biggest elements are for low VHF.

So really, no loss there.

There's nothing better than a free antenna!


----------



## reddice

13 was good monday. Tuesday it was breaking up slot again. I wish they would just run it in full power like they suppose too. Much closer than you and yet I get it like it is so far away.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just because you're having reception problems doesn't necessarily mean that the station is not transmitting at full power!


----------



## mikepier

This is the used Radio Shack Antenna I put on my chimney Monday(minus 1 element).

Originally I thought it was a VU-90, but after looking at the specs online, it appears to be a VU-75XR.











As I said in my other post, all channels coming in very strong.

Even with a 2-way splitter on feeding 2 TV's, I'm still able to pick up the 2 NJ stations as follows:

WNJB 58.1 52 miles away 40% signal strength

WNJN 50.1 38 miles away. 55% signal strength


When I use TVFOOL, it only shows WNJB as channel 8, ( there is no 58.1 next to it) I wonder if this was an error.


----------



## nycdigital09

I think wnjb 58 is rf 8 . i dont get a whiff of this station where i live, im blocked by condos in front off my home, i was hoping they move to 4 ts but i heard is not happening

i use to have a rat shack uhf monstrosity u120 years ago i had it pointed towards hartford, when analog was still used i use to get all the hartford stations, albany would come in very weakly but watchable, now with digital is not even close.


----------



## GSfromCT

It must be a great morning for tropo.

I just picked up 7, 11, 13 and 31. I have never (since going digital back in 2002) picked up 11, 13 and 31 before.

4 and 5 are in the 80's and CBS is in the 70's.

I used to get WABC when it was on 45 and on the GE building. WABC on the combiner has been sporadic at 45 and barely there on 7.

I should try to see if WLIW is around. I haven't seen it since the transition.


One evening two weeks ago while scanning, I picked up all Philly stations. Obviously, that was a great tropo night!


Edit: I just checked, still no WLIW, but I received WASA-LD 64 for a few minutes. This has to be skip because ION is now gone and 13 and 11 are sitting right on the threshold. The higher the sun gets over my hill to the East, the faster the signals are dropping. Oh well, it was nice to see them, even for such a short time!


----------



## nycdigital09

gs yes it was tropo last night i was pickin up most of ct stations, i got to see wtxx 20-2

this tv i watched another outer limits episodue Eck.. great scifi series btw.


----------



## AloEuro

raj2001 - thanks, R.F.- forgot to say thank you,alo


----------



## AloEuro

Friend of mine has dismounted the type of Antenna -mikepier- has put on his chimney,

and placed $60.oo+ Wineguard type, few pages before someone has put pictures, the

results are the same, in order to justify the cost for foolishness, he says it is 'sharper'

which is ridiculous since the sharpness is determined by sender not by receiver.

I am sure some guys wil swear that the shorter flips Antenna are better,giving more

channels, but as other guys have said, it is really location rather than genius of the new

digital HD gadgets, the days of the hanger Antenna are not over yet.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18515548
> 
> 
> This is the used Radio Shack Antenna I put on my chimney Monday(minus 1 element).
> 
> Originally I thought it was a VU-90, but after looking at the specs online, it appears to be a VU-75XR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I said in my other post, all channels coming in very strong.
> 
> Even with a 2-way splitter on feeding 2 TV's, I'm still able to pick up the 2 NJ stations as follows:
> 
> WNJB 58.1 52 miles away 40% signal strength
> 
> WNJN 50.1 38 miles away. 55% signal strength
> 
> 
> When I use TVFOOL, it only shows WNJB as channel 8, ( there is no 58.1 next to it) I wonder if this was an error.



Long island is pretty flat and narrow with water all around. TV reception for NYC and NJN is pretty easy.


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 is back in the 60's again with a stable signal. Yesterday it was breaking up all day. I thought with a roof antenna I would be getting better reception. Yes 2, 4, 5, 7, 9 25, 41, 47 and 68 are great even better than I can get 41. Maybe I should have gotten a better antenna than the RCA. Amazon had one like the Radioshack pictured cheaper but it did not come with a mount. I just wanted something small and thinking I would get all the channel excellent I must have been fooling myself. I can see Manhattan from my roof but all the downtown building block it. I did have a clear view of the WTC1 before it got destroyed. If it is ever rebuild then I should have no problems with reception.


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 is really peeving me off. Now the stupid crud is breaking up again. I give up. If only Dish Network would wake up and add the HD channel instead of their cruddy center cut downconverted SD channel. Except for channel 31 which breaks up alot and sometimes channel 11 which is good now but can get weak and breakup alot at certain times all of the other channels on the ESB I have no problems with. They are strong and stable with no breakups channel 7 being the strongest. Just channel 13 with the constant breakups and no signal message which makes me want to take a hammer to the roof antenna trying to watch it.


----------



## nycdigital09

reddice why don't add a real vhf high antenna to your other antenna, i got winegard 7-13 that i could let you have it for cheap, is brand new, i never put it up, is rated for 60 + miles. i think that would definitely solve you dilemma.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18326722
> 
> 
> I have a long pole with the antenna at the top. I can walk around the room with it and point it in any direction. I have it hanging from the ceiling hook. Also, I hung a length of swag chain from the ceiling hook in order to adjust the height of the antenna. I can hang the antenna pole from any link to keep it at any height. If I'm having any problem with an important broadcast, like the Superbowl, I am free to adjust the antenna position in several different ways, or even ask someone to stand in the corner and point the antenna where it needs to go!



The signal quality was drastically reduced on all channels this week. Last night, we discovered the cause: All of this turning and repointing has cause a length of coaxial cable to loop in front of the DB-2 antenna. Undoing that loop and putting the cable behind the antenna doubled the signal strength.


I noticed the loop, but didn't think it would cause any harm, since the cable is insulated. Boy, was I wrong.


----------



## raj2001

7 disappeared today (from home). I'm using 2xCM4228 so I don't have the most optimal VHF setup... oh well. My Winegard YA1713 arrives tomorrow, maybe this weekend I put it up.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18520578
> 
> 
> reddice why don't add a real vhf high antenna to your other antenna, i got winegard 7-13 that i could let you have it for cheap, is brand new, i never put it up, is rated for 60 + miles. i think that would definitely solve you dilemma.



Which one is that?


Had I only known you had one for sale...


----------



## nycdigital09

Which one is that?


Had I only known you had one for sale...

__________________


Ryan, N2RJ


yes i have a winegard YA1713 vhf antenna 4 sale is brand new, i have it here if interested let me know


----------



## nycdigital09

I bought a ya1713 thinkin i would use, but all my vhf stations come in clearly with a uhf only antenna


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18520578
> 
> 
> reddice why don't add a real vhf high antenna to your other antenna, i got winegard 7-13 that i could let you have it for cheap, is brand new, i never put it up, is rated for 60 + miles. i think that would definitely solve you dilemma.



is this it?











Summit source $38.95


Seems cheap price anyway


----------



## nycdigital09

yes, its great antenna for vhf hi as i read most reviews its a winegard, it will pickup signals from over 50 miles without a preamp. if you need a preamp i got a couple of uhf preamps for sale cm 7775, 7777, wg 4800, hdp 269. willing to let go 4 a good offer


----------



## yobiworld

Any news from *WASA*????


----------



## reddice

It will not make a difference. It can be for a 100 miles where I am located 13 will still come in bad. Got 13 and 50 much better with the indoor Terk antenna. Other channels are improved with the outdoor RCA with 4 & 7 & 41 big improvements but the PBS channels are now unwatchable.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18527209
> 
> 
> Which one is that?
> 
> 
> Had I only known you had one for sale...
> 
> __________________
> 
> 
> Ryan, N2RJ
> 
> 
> yes i have a winegard YA1713 vhf antenna 4 sale is brand new, i have it here if interested let me know



Sorry I already bought one from solid signal. But thanks anyway.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18533185
> 
> 
> Any news from *WASA*????



WASA-LD is on air. I can even pick them up from here.


All they have are infomercials on one channel and slideshow pics of NYC on another.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18534262
> 
> 
> It will not make a difference. It can be for a 100 miles where I am located 13 will still come in bad. Got 13 and 50 much better with the indoor Terk antenna. Other channels are improved with the outdoor RCA with 4 & 7 & 41 big improvements but the PBS channels are now unwatchable.



It actually may make a difference for you. Your situation is that you have a lot of multipath. The YA1713 won't help you in the gain department but it will help to kill the multipath.


Mine is very sharp with the beamwidth and even a few degrees it goes from lock to zero.


----------



## mikepier

This is the first rainy day since I put up my antenna on the roof, and as expected, WNJB has no signal and WNJN is breaking up bad. All the other channels are coming in strong.


----------



## reddice

50 I got much better with the indoor antenna. Not the fault of the outdoor since it is not pointing towards NJ. If I point it towards NJ it will make the NYC stations weaker.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18537621
> 
> 
> 50 I got much better with the indoor antenna. Not the fault of the outdoor since it is not pointing towards NJ. If I point it towards NJ it will make the NYC stations weaker.



I'm lucky. All of my stations are generally in the same direction east of me, so I'm able to pick up the NJ stations.


----------



## reddice

Thar stupid WKOB channel needs to go off the air. I get it very weak but whenever I do a rescam it adds the stupid test pattern channel on 2 which conflicts with Wcbs 2. I even froze my tv three times forcing me to unplug it when checking the signal strength. Need to do a rescam when I lose wkob. Take it off or map it properly.


----------



## trumpace

I have today written to the heads of both WLIW and WNET to suggest that in order to provide the WLIW signal to the thousands of NYC OTA viewers that is now denied them that WNET switch the programming on sub-channel 13.2 from WNET-KIDS to the WLIW signal at 7 PM every evening. The viewers of WNET-KIds are in bed by then, or should be.


This would enable NYC OTA viewers who are now unable to receive WLIW

OTA to receive their programming.


If you think this would be a good idea send an email to the heads of both station and help bring it to fruition.


Larry


----------



## reddice

What WNET needs to do is boost there power after channel 7 took some of it away since 13 for me is very unreliable.


----------



## SnellKrell

"What WNET needs to do is boost there power after channel 7 took some of it away..."


Huh?????


One station (7) boosting its power on the VHF Combiner has absolutely nothing to do with 13's reception problems. It's not that there's a specific amount of power that is divided among the constituent stations.


According to management at 13, it's nothing more than coincidence!


----------



## nyctveng

sorry reddice nyc stations cant make changes (or go off the air!!) because of your specific situation. just because you have outrageous theories that ch7 is taking away signal from ch 13 and because WKOB conflicts with your WCBS. we get it you're frustrated with not picking up channel 13 put posting it every day will not change things unless you move or try a better antenna.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18538206
> 
> 
> Thar stupid WKOB channel needs to go off the air. I get it very weak but whenever I do a rescam it adds the stupid test pattern channel on 2 which conflicts with Wcbs 2. I even froze my tv three times forcing me to unplug it when checking the signal strength. Need to do a rescam when I lose wkob. Take it off or map it properly.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18539133
> 
> 
> sorry reddice nyc stations cant make changes (or go off the air!!) because of your specific situation. just because you have outrageous theories that ch7 is taking away signal from ch 13 and because WKOB conflicts with your WCBS. we get it you're frustrated with not picking up channel 13 put posting it every day will not change things unless you move or try a better antenna.



I keep telling people. My aunt is 7 miles from ESB. Never once had trouble with 13.


it is either their area or antenna.


Unless we are just incredibly lucky.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trumpace* /forum/post/18538440
> 
> 
> I have today written to the heads of both WLIW and WNET to suggest that in order to provide the WLIW signal to the thousands of NYC OTA viewers that is now denied them that WNET switch the programming on sub-channel 13.2 from WNET-KIDS to the WLIW signal at 7 PM every evening. The viewers of WNET-KIds are in bed by then, or should be.
> 
> 
> This would enable NYC OTA viewers who are now unable to receive WLIW
> 
> OTA to receive their programming.
> 
> 
> If you think this would be a good idea send an email to the heads of both station and help bring it to fruition.
> 
> 
> Larry



I don't think that's going to fly.


In my opinion, you're not missing much on WLIW. Sometimes I put it on in the morning for the kids, but you can get that on WNET 24 hours on 13.2, and plus WNET is HD, and has some good HD programming.

Are you able to pick up WNJN 50.1 in Jersey?


----------



## reddice

I tried about 5 different indoors and the RCA outdoor. I am not getting no more antennas. Should have just gotten a moter outdoor antenna but I thought this cheap one would be good enough. I get great reception with it except for channels 11, 13 & 31 on the esb.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18541522
> 
> 
> I tried about 5 different indoors and the RCA outdoor. I am not getting no more antennas. Should have just gotten a moter outdoor antenna but I thought this cheap one would be good enough. I get great reception with it except for channels 11, 13 & 31 on the esb.



I don't understand why not go to your local store or J&R and try an antenna then return it if no good. Or trade in.


Why buy 5 antenna's?


----------



## NervousCat

If you buy antennas online or mail order - return policies are much stricter (as in we won't take them back) compared to buying in person. Also, not everyone can get into the city to visit J&R if you are living in the fringe areas like me. Radio Shack is not a option either.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/18542554
> 
> 
> If you buy antennas online or mail order - return policies are much stricter (as in we won't take them back) compared to buying in person. Also, not everyone can get into the city to visit J&R if you are living in the fringe areas like me. Radio Shack is not a option either.



I should also point out that I am talking about rooftop outdoor antennas.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trumpace* /forum/post/18538440
> 
> 
> [...] in order to provide the WLIW signal to the thousands of NYC OTA viewers that is now denied them that WNET switch the programming on sub-channel 13.2 from WNET-KIDS to the WLIW signal at 7 PM every evening.



i'd rather get PBS World on 13.2.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18539074
> 
> 
> One station (7) boosting its power on the VHF Combiner has absolutely nothing to do with 13's reception problems. It's not that there's a specific amount of power that is divided among the constituent stations.
> 
> 
> According to management at 13, it's nothing more than coincidence!



sorry, but PBS saying it's a coincidence does not cut it. there's a reason for their signal quality to have gone down. it could be Solar flares, interference from other channels, financial difficulties, disdain, etc, etc.... sure, the problem might not be related to ABC's power boost, but saying it's a "coincidence" makes their engineering staff look like a bunch of hacks, which they certainly arent. there has to be an explanation for their signal problem. PBS should either give it, or shut up about it and pretend all is fine.


i'm glad they put their shows online. i havent missed a single episode of Nova yet.


ps: i'm not shooting the messenger. i'm just disappointed at PBS's response. very lame.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18543601
> 
> 
> sorry, but PBS saying it's a coincidence does not cut it. there's a reason for their signal quality to have gone down. it could be Solar flares, interference from other channels, financial difficulties, disdain, etc, etc.... sure, the problem might not be related to ABC's power boost, but saying it's a "coincidence" makes their engineering staff look like a bunch of hacks, which they certainly arent. there has to be an explanation for their signal problem. PBS should either give it, or shut up about it and pretend all is fine.
> 
> 
> i'm glad they put their shows online. i havent missed a single episode of Nova yet.
> 
> 
> ps: i'm not shooting the messenger. i'm just disappointed at PBS's response. very lame.




Whoa! Please take it easy.


When I was in contact with 13 a few weeks ago, I was told that at that time the station personnel didn't know what was causing the problem. A problem, by the way, of which they are very much aware. I was further told that the increase in Channel 7's power did not impact 13's signal.


For your edification the word "coincidence" is mine - not uttered by anyone at 13. Nevertheless, it's a perfectly apt word when one considers the situation:


"An accidental and remarkable occurrence of events or ideas at the same time, suggesting but lacking a causal relationship."


Sounds just fine to me!


----------



## reddice

PBS has there shows online. How is the quality?

Like I said when I can get 13 it is fine (in the high 50s to low 60s should be in the high 70s) but many times it just gets weak or I lose it completely.


----------



## nycdigital09

[PBS has there shows online. How is the quality?

Like I said when I can get 13 it is fine (in the high 50s to low 60s should be in the high 70s) but many times it just gets weak or I lose it completely.)


Reddice, your signal fluctuation could be your cable, are you using rg6q with digicon connectors it really can make a difference. i had issues with signal fluctation before i used the cable from cable company. it was degrading my signal by half. my ota reception issues are not that unlike yours, i get my ota signal from 1 outdoor uhf antenna (small yagi) on roof of a 2 story house. signals are good, to excellent, surprisingly vhf stations come in. what i don't get is NJ Pbs station, which i would love to get its HD, cos i have buildings right on my path to the esb and nj. so don't feel your the only one with ota issues. I'm not ota guru, expert


----------



## dvdchance

I'd also love to get PBS-World on 13.2. Especially if they did like ABC does and have 2 HD channels.


In this case having 2 HD channels would actually make sense.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/18542554
> 
> 
> If you buy antennas online or mail order - return policies are much stricter (as in we won't take them back) compared to buying in person. Also, not everyone can get into the city to visit J&R if you are living in the fringe areas like me. Radio Shack is not a option either.



Well one trip to the city you could get 3 or more antenna's to try.


Over the years I have got 7 or more antenna's to my aunt. I am over 50 miles away. The terk 50 just fit inside my car. Had to turn it diagonal.


Anyway my point is I tried many different antenna's. I even tried a clear vision C2 months ago.


My point is I was not lazy and whined. I did whatever it took. I changed the coax to terk HD cable. That also improved the signal by 5.


After checking the clearvision C2. I am convinced that the Terk 50 is the best antenna for us. Nothing beats it. The C2 tied it though.


So I am done with antennas. But I did much work getting and trying them up to this point.


Antennas are more of an art form then science. It takes patience and much trial and error.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/18547664
> 
> 
> I'd also love to get PBS-World on 13.2. Especially if they did like ABC does and have 2 HD channels.
> 
> 
> In this case having 2 HD channels would actually make sense.



pbs world used to be on 13.3 before it was replaced with V-me. regardless, it is highly unlikely WNET/WLIW will shuffle things around to accomodate OTA viewers that don't receive one or the other station.


----------



## raj2001

13 is just FINE here ~48 miles from the ESB. I can even pick it up at ground level with the YA1713.


----------



## nycdigital09

[13 is just FINE here ~48 miles from the ESB. I can even pick it up at ground level with the YA1713.

__________________

Ryan, N2RJ


raj did you put ups your winegard ya1713 yet? you know what i don't like too much about the antenna (all winegard antennas) the matchin balun, looks flimpsy specially the 2 small legs inside the balun ? i rather much have wingnuts on connectors, i think winegard purposely does that, other than that peeve, the ya1713 looks like solidly built. ps have you tried pickin up philly stations from your location?


----------



## raj2001

Yes I have put it up on the tower, temporarily mounted though. I have the permanent fixture for the mast which will go up maybe this weekend. 7, 11 and 13 come in just fine. 13 is the weakest but there are no dropouts at all.


When it is aimed to NYC I lose WNJB on channel 8 because the antenna is that sharp. But that is not an issue because I get WNJN 50 just fine. When W36AZ goes digital on channel 35 that will be an additional backup.


The balun box doesn't bother me at all.


I haven't really tried philly but I can receive KYW and WCAU here with no problems if I turn the 4228 stack south. That was just when I was up the tower. I haven't tried properly peaking and aligning it yet. I'll need a low band antenna for WPVI. I might build instead of buy that one and get a separate antenna system for philly. It's too bad that Channel Master discontinued all of their good antennas otherwise I'd get another pair of 4228As for the philly receive system.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18552195
> 
> 
> Yes I have put it up on the tower, temporarily mounted though. I have the permanent fixture for the mast which will go up maybe this weekend. 7, 11 and 13 come in just fine. 13 is the weakest but there are no dropouts at all.
> 
> 
> When it is aimed to NYC I lose WNJB on channel 8 because the antenna is that sharp. But that is not an issue because I get WNJN 50 just fine. When W36AZ goes digital on channel 35 that will be an additional backup.
> 
> 
> The balun box doesn't bother me at all.
> 
> 
> I haven't really tried philly but I can receive KYW and WCAU here with no problems if I turn the 4228 stack south. That was just when I was up the tower. I haven't tried properly peaking and aligning it yet. I'll need a low band antenna for WPVI. I might build instead of buy that one and get a separate antenna system for philly. It's too bad that Channel Master discontinued all of their good antennas otherwise I'd get another pair of 4228As for the philly receive system.



What is a balun box? ty


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18552325
> 
> 
> What is a balun box? ty



Instead of having the balun (a 300 ohm balanced to 75 ohm unbalanced transformer) hanging off your antenna as a add-on piece, it is integrated into the antenna usually as plastic black box mounted to the boom. You attach the 75 ohm cable directly to the balun box on the antenna.


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 can shove it. I am back typing this on the computer so I can say more. Not to sound like a grumpy person but yesterday I watched Frontline and at times it would break up a lot for a bit but it was fine. Today it is back at a blank screen. In matter of fact when I put it on channel 13 my TV showed low signal and it deleted it from the channel lineup. This channel is a pathetic mess and I don't even care no more what happens. I broke my last transformer trying to get the channel good by moving the wires and twisting it too much. That was last month.


I am not buying no more stinking antennas for a channel that has craphole reception. I know I am going to hear but I am 45 miles away and I get channel 13 in the 90's. Bull to you. I am only stinking 4 miles and it is the most unreliable channel next to channel 31. No it is not my antenna or cable. My cable is the extra one that I had when I had HD receiver installed which now with the Eastern Arc dish I don't need it so it is being used for the RCA antenna. As I said before all of my other channels 2, 4, 5, 7, even 11 lately has been good 25, 41, 47 and 68 come in great ranging from the 70's to the 90's as with channel 7 and 47.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18555161
> 
> 
> Channel 13 can shove it. I am back typing this on the computer so I can say more. Not to sound like a grumpy person but yesterday I watched Frontline and at times it would break up a lot for a bit but it was fine. Today it is back at a blank screen. In matter of fact when I put it on channel 13 my TV showed low signal and it deleted it from the channel lineup. This channel is a pathetic mess and I don't even care no more what happens. I broke my last transformer trying to get the channel good by moving the wires and twisting it too much. That was last month.
> 
> 
> I am not buying no more stinking antennas for a channel that has craphole reception. I know I am going to hear but I am 45 miles away and I get channel 13 in the 90's. Bull to you. I am only stinking 4 miles and it is the most unreliable channel next to channel 31. No it is not my antenna or cable. My cable is the extra one that I had when I had HD receiver installed which now with the Eastern Arc dish I don't need it so it is being used for the RCA antenna. As I said before all of my other channels 2, 4, 5, 7, even 11 lately has been good 25, 41, 47 and 68 come in great ranging from the 70's to the 90's as with channel 7 and 47.



Reddice, I think you should throw an AVS party at your place one night and invite all of us so we can help all solve your problems once and for all.


Seriously, are there any transmission antennas near you, like radio transmitters, CB antenna's, etc?


Why don't you change that cable that used to be for the dish? That is the only thing that you didn't rule out.


----------



## LenL

All I can add is there are lots of querks with OTA reception.


I have a CM4228 installed outside and I can get 7.1 (VHF) in the low to mid 90s. the CM4228 is supposed to be a UHF antenna. The only channel I get as well is 5.1 (UHF). All the rest of my UHF channels are not as strong as 7.1. CBS 2.1 is dicey with some dropouts and pixelation. So go figure. I out up a cheap UHF bowtie which is not even mounted as high just to view and record shows on 2.1 which is gets better than the CM4228. The rest of the channels it does not get as well....with one exception...31.1. For some reason if I get 2.1 well I get 31.1 well.


My point is that it is not all that strange or unusual to get one or two channels that are a problem. It may be that you will need different antenna to pull in 13.1.


By the way I can get it with only the CM4228 but in the mid 60's to mid 70's and with a preamp. Sometimes there are dropouts and sometimes it is decent.


Weather plays a roll here too. It may explain the varying reception for you on the weaker channels.


I built 2 homemade antennas which I hope to mount in the comming weeks. One a VHF only anntenna which I will join with the simple UHF bowtie to see if I can pick up the VHF channels the UHF alone can't. The other is an 8 bay like the CM4228 but a different design.


You could look at building a simple VHF antenna to pick up 13.1.


----------



## reddice

I think location is the problem. It does not matter how close or far away you are. I did rule out the cable and found the transformer to be the fault. With the new transformer channel 7 hit the 90s. Just channel 13 is still a royal pain.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18557247
> 
> 
> All I can add is there are lots of querks with OTA reception.
> 
> 
> I have a CM4228 installed outside and I can get 7.1 (VHF) in the low to mid 90s. the CM4228 is supposed to be a UHF antenna. The only channel I get as well is 5.1 (UHF). All the rest of my UHF channels are not as strong as 7.1. CBS 2.1 is dicey with some dropouts and pixelation. So go figure. I out up a cheap UHF bowtie which is not even mounted as high just to view and record shows on 2.1 which is gets better than the CM4228. The rest of the channels it does not get as well....with one exception...31.1. For some reason if I get 2.1 well I get 31.1 well.



Well guess what? I am NW of you and I can get everything reliably except 5.1 (44). I had to stack two CM4228s and align them exactly to get WNYW reliably. Otherwise I don't even get a lock. Apart from 50.1 WNJN, 31.1 is the strongest signal here, with WCBS 2.1 (33) being a close second.


With my Winegard YA1713 VHF antenna pointed to NYC I get 7, 8, 11, 13 reliably.


----------



## LenL

I would get much better reception if only I was not on the downside of a hill. Right now my CM4228 is high up on the chimmney and just about peaking over the top of the hill in front of it. That is my problem and I can't do anything about it except to pick my house up and move it higher up the hill....and that ain't going to happen.


That being said....still strange that I get 7.1 and 5.1 great and other stations are so-so or bad. Go figure? That's why I buit two anntennas with spare parts to add them to the mix.


----------



## Dave Loudin

Perhaps this is a good time to recommend a page from Ken Nist's excellent HDTV site . This is a nice illustrated tutorial of how VHF/UHF reception can be disrupted/enhanced by local features.


----------



## nycdigital09

(I think location is the problem. It does not matter how close or far away you are.)


thxs reddice, its weird because i was contemplating this same idea yesterday











I could not get lock on wnjn ch 51.1 from my antenna location, i have buildings right in the path west to nyc, nj but i was looking around, and i think i can get around the problem, if I move my rig over 10 ft over there is a clearance that i can aim my yagi over the high rises, i think i might be able to rescue wnjn finally!! I"m gonna need to put a tripod on the roof , and move the antenna over from the chimney mount. I let you know how it comes out.


----------



## reddice

Don't know if I should try a cheap amp. It could make reception worse for the strong channels. Any places where they take them back?


I think channel 13 must have noise and multipath issues a lot so a amp might make it worse.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18561660
> 
> 
> Don't know if I should try a cheap amp. It could make reception worse for the strong channels. Any places where they take them back?
> 
> 
> I think channel 13 must have noise and multipath issues a lot so a amp might make it worse.



If it were me I would get an high band 7 - 13 antenna & a pre amp. The channel master cm 7777 has two seperate inputs VHF & UHF so you only get a good clean signal from each antenna. The connect the high band to the VHF & the uhf you now have the the UHF. I did this at my Dad's house & it made a big difference.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18561660
> 
> 
> Don't know if I should try a cheap amp. It could make reception worse for the strong channels. Any places where they take them back?
> 
> 
> I think channel 13 must have noise and multipath issues a lot so a amp might make it worse.



You experience is the double whammy of the US digital standard: multipath resulting in lower signal through cancellation and higher noise generated in the Rx by the equalizer. The European and Asians standards are COFDM-based and thus are to a much greater extent immune to multipath.


The advice by David the DTV Ma is good and I would add one more suggestion:insert a 6dB pad between the VHF antenna and the amp, which should be installed as close as possible to the antenna's terminals. The pad may be needed in case the antenna has high mismatch (VSWR) at channel 13 or too high a signal at channel 7. The amp gain should be enough to compensate for the pad but not too high so as to avoid higher noise generation.


So there's some experiments involved, you should be able to get 13 if you get 7.


----------



## nycdigital09

[ Don't know if I should try a cheap amp. It could make reception worse for the strong channels. Any places where they take them back?


I think channel 13 must have noise and multipath issues a lot ]


A preamplifier won't help your reception issues. the preamp will only help if you have signal thats marginal and breaks up some of the time, you said that ch13 doesnt come at all some of the times, you need a higher gain antenna, preferably vhf only for ch 13 woes. ch25 has strongest signal where I'm at followed by ch 7 followed by latin channels, 13 does tbroadcast in lower power than 7 or 11.


----------



## nycdigital09

reddice have you have tried looking at your location at tvfool.com it can show you what you expect to pickup where you at. another thing if you get another antenna try mountain high as you can. and point it using a compass, good luck


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18563921
> 
> 
> reddice have you have tried looking at your location at tvfool.com it can show you what you expect to pickup where you at. another thing if you get another antenna try mountain high as you can. and point it using a compass, good luck



I used the TVfool with the Google Earth and bit torrent program, and it is interesting to see how mountains , obstructions, etc can affect the reception.

I used it for the upstate Albany stations and its prety accurate as to what you can receive and what you can't, especially if you live up on a mountain or in a valley.

I imagine it would be accurate down here in the NYC area as well with all the buildings.


----------



## LenL

What pray tell is a 6DB pad?


Any links to where this can be purchased would be helpful too!


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18564844
> 
> 
> What pray tell is a 6DB pad?
> 
> 
> Any links to where this can be purchased would be helpful too!



6dB attenuator, 75 ohm impedance in and out.


----------



## reddice

Lost channel 11. Was getting weaker everyday. Channel 13 breaks up. Channel 7 I peaked at 96. Why can 11 & 13 just admit there signal sucks.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18570124
> 
> 
> Lost channel 11. Was getting weaker everyday. Channel 13 breaks up. Channel 7 I peaked at 96. Why can 11 & 13 just admit there signal sucks.



Reddice, check out the map I sent you in your private message.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18570124
> 
> 
> Lost channel 11. Was getting weaker everyday. Channel 13 breaks up. Channel 7 I peaked at 96. Why can 11 & 13 just admit there signal sucks.



I don't know why you think "there signal sucks" when I get them just fine and I am ~49 miles away from the ESB.


----------



## reddice

What kind of antenna do you have? I am only 4 miles with a small outdoor RCA antenna and channels 11, 13, 31 on the esb give me a major headache. All the other channels are stable strong and fine.


----------



## dvdchance

Is anyone getting any PSIP info from Ch. 13 and it's sub?


I have a DVR PAL and while I've never gotten any TVGOS info I always got PSIP info for 13. For the last few days however all I get is "no information available" in hourly blocks for 13.


----------



## trumpace

Same here.


----------



## LenL

I have 2 units each attached to a different antenna. One to an expensive CM4228. With that setup I get 13.1 but I don't get TVGOS.


The other PAL DVR I just got at Sears and I attached it to a cheap simple and small bowtie antenna and I get TVGOS. However it does not get most of the VHF stations including 13.1. So I can't answer your question about 13.1. However I built a homemade VHF antenna I am looking to mount in tandem with the small UHF this coming week and I hope to get 11.1 and 13.1 with it. I will try to get back to you with a better answer at that time.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/18572454
> 
> 
> Is anyone getting any PSIP info from Ch. 13 and it's sub?
> 
> 
> I have a DVR PAL and while I've never gotten any TVGOS info I always got PSIP info for 13. For the last few days however all I get is "no information available" in hourly blocks for 13.



Did you turn on the TVGOS feature in the menu area?


----------



## LenL

You don't turn it on with the Pal DVR. That feature in the menu area has to do with your TV being TVGOS capable.


With the Pal DVR you either receive TVGOS or you don't. There is an AVS forum here that explains it all. Just search it for TVGOS.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...99071&page=256


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/18572454
> 
> 
> Is anyone getting any PSIP info from Ch. 13 and it's sub?
> 
> 
> I have a DVR PAL and while I've never gotten any TVGOS info I always got PSIP info for 13. For the last few days however all I get is "no information available" in hourly blocks for 13.



I checked 13.1 on the PALDVR/antenna combo that receives it and as of last night NO program information was being sent.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18571078
> 
> 
> What kind of antenna do you have? I am only 4 miles with a small outdoor RCA antenna and channels 11, 13, 31 on the esb give me a major headache. All the other channels are stable strong and fine.



We use a terk-50 (new replacement is terk-55)


7 miles from ESB and no problems with the channels you mentioned. In fact no problems at all


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 right now is fine in the 60s but it won't last. The problem is once the noise and multipath kick in it starts to flutuate and then break up bad.


----------



## reddice

I have the RCA751 antenna.


----------



## raj2001

Seems as though we're getting a bit of an enhancement here tonight. Everything out of NYC is coming in full scale. Won't last though.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/18572454
> 
> 
> Is anyone getting any PSIP info from Ch. 13 and it's sub?
> 
> 
> I have a DVR PAL and while I've never gotten any TVGOS info I always got PSIP info for 13. For the last few days however all I get is "no information available" in hourly blocks for 13.



I get psip epg data from wnet just fine.


----------



## Dave Loudin

reddice, I encourage you to review the information on reception that I linked to. You are using the antenna that comes highly recommended for your situation, so you are fighting constructive/destructive interference from buildings, trees, and whatnot. As you look the information over, remember that the precise locations of strong and weak signals is _frequency dependent_. That is, what works as a receive location for 11 might not work for 13. Ultimately, to solve your problems with 13, you will need to move the antenna.


----------



## reddice

Thanks. I am browsing and typing this all on the iPod. When I go on the computer which is now not that often I will check it out.


----------



## nycdigital09

anybody know where azteca tv ch 39 moved to ? i need my soccer fix , and they have some hot looking chiquitas there. raj check out this site if you have not visited yet, http://www.antennahacks.com/ is pretty good read. your right bout signal enhancement i was using small loop antenna, i was pickin up wedw ch49 bridgeport ct. bout 50 miles from me. all the local tv stations uhf, vhf come on ok with this loop.


----------



## Trip in VA

Azteca is now on WMBC 63-6 as far as I know.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

Yep Azteca is on WMBC 63-6.


I had a read through antennahacks.com. Interesting stuff. However the owner of the site was criticized over on another forum for using an uncalibrated spectrum analyzer. Doesn't make sense to me. You're measuring relative signal levels so calibration shouldn't really matter.


Lots of good stuff on that site.


By the way we're still getting lots of DX TV stations here. KYW and WCAU are coming in pretty strong!


----------



## J_ph

I'm ready to try out a CM4228HD on the roof. I had an older attic mounted antenna and tried it recently in hopes of dropping Dish. But I was unable to get WNYW, after reading some posts here, it seems that WNYW for NJ is not easy (I'm in Chester NJ).


AntennaWeb gives an entirely different suggestion than TVFool. AntennaWeb says point it to Philly, TVFool says NYC.


Do I have any chance of getting WNYW? should not bother climbing around on the roof, and continue to send money to Dish?



many thanks


j


----------



## raj2001

Chester NJ is hard to tell but I suspect you may be getting co-channel with WMCN (which broadcasts only infomercials!).


If you can get WWOR you'll get WNYW in SD.


----------



## nycdigital09

i was another site i was asking for suggestions theres a member there named tigerbangs, an antenna guru, he is odd fellow, anybody heard of of this guy. i asked him what antenna is better for pure gain on uhf band xg91 or 9032 he gets kind of bend out of shape if you disagree him lol


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18589760
> 
> 
> I'm ready to try out a CM4228HD on the roof. I had an older attic mounted antenna and tried it recently in hopes of dropping Dish. But I was unable to get WNYW, after reading some posts here, it seems that WNYW for NJ is not easy (I'm in Chester NJ).
> 
> 
> AntennaWeb gives an entirely different suggestion than TVFool. AntennaWeb says point it to Philly, TVFool says NYC.
> 
> 
> Do I have any chance of getting WNYW? should not bother climbing around on the roof, and continue to send money to Dish?
> 
> 
> 
> many thanks
> 
> 
> j



I'm in Randolph and I get 5.1 in the 90's with a CM4228. I do use a CM7777 preamp and my antenna is about 40 feet up in the air. However I may need all that since I am on the side of a hill and my CM 4228 just about peaks over the crest of the hill.


If you don't have the issues I have you might be fine without the preamp. Otherwise you might have to buy one.


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 is bad again. I read that article and it does not matter where I aim the antenna. The day it was put up channel 13 was breaking up bad and we pointed it every direction. Even with the indoor 13 would breakup but not that bad. I live near downtown Brooklyn where there are a lot of antennas. I think channel 13 and even 11 have a lot of noise. Channel 7 must not be affected because I easily peak it in the 90s. 11 I get on dish in HD but 13 I don't so it is a lost cause. Just really peeved because the antenna was mainly put up for 13.


----------



## J_ph

thanks Raj and Len


>If you don't have the issues I have you might be fine without the preamp. Otherwise you might have to buy one.


I do have a preamp, it's an older Radio Shack mast mount type ( pre-digital ). But I was thinking that I was going to run the coax down the side of the house and use a distribution amp instead.


I'm now wondering if the pre-amp may be better, but this would mean that I would need to sneak the coax into a ridge-vent. I assume that I would need to use a mounting block at the ridge and run a ground for the coax and a ground for the mast ground. I had thought that there was an NEC guideline that limits the length of the coax ground, is that true? Also, is there anyway that I could use 1 ground wire for both the antenna and the coax mounting block?


Is a pre-digital era amplifier not worth trying...... and go for the CM7777?




thanks again for your help ( sorry about all the questions )


j


----------



## raj2001

They are not making amplifiers differently because of DTV. They all do the same thing, which is amplify RF.


So your "pre-digital" amp will likely work just fine. There is no such thing as a "digital era amp."


----------



## J_ph

>There is no such thing as a "digital era amp."


Thanks Ryan, I was at the local RS recently browsing to see what they have. They had a pre-amp with some "made for digital" logos on the box, but it looked just like my old pre-amp..... I guess it was : )



regards, j


----------



## raj2001

My experience with antenna preamps has been pretty interesting. I initially put up an Antennacraft 10G212. It's still up on the tower just not connected to anything at the moment. I then decided I wanted to try a CM7777 because of the 2dB NF. Put it up and was sorely disappointed. I had a strong analog station close by (WMBC 63) that basically overloaded my CM7777 to the point where it was tiling on every channel. So I took it down and put back up the 10G212.


I took my 4228 down and then was antenna less for a while. Put up back a stack of 4228s (2 of them) with the hope of capturing the elusive WNYW. I put them back up with the 10G212 because that worked last time.


No luck getting a full constant lock on WNYW but I did get it intermittently. Better than no lock at all. Meanwhile I added a VHF antenna to the mix (Winegard YA1713) to get 7, 11 and 13, which I did.


Then last weekend when I was up the tower aligning the antennas and putting proper mast clamps, I decided just for shifts and giggles to change the preamp back to the 7777.


Holy night and day difference batman!


I got WNYW at almost constant lock now, with just a few breakups here and there. I think that the 2.0dB NF really helped a lot, even though the 7777 had lower gain than the 10G212 (23dB vs 30dB). I'm sure the fact that there wasn't a full power station less than 10 miles away overloading everything helped a lot too.


I also liked the separate VHF/UHF inputs which meant I could take the UVSJ combiner out of the loop. Probably just a little difference in insertion loss but it made the wiring cleaner too.


But I am going to change preamps yet again. I have a Research Communications amp on order with 0.4dB NF. Maybe this one will FINALLY push WNYW over the edge to the point where it is constantly strong and not breakup. Beyond that I am at a loss what to do. Maybe I'll try ganging two or four 91XGs and see if that works.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18591095
> 
> 
> >There is no such thing as a "digital era amp."
> 
> 
> Thanks Ryan, I was at the local RS recently browsing to see what they have. They had a pre-amp with some "made for digital" logos on the box, but it looked just like my old pre-amp..... I guess it was : )
> 
> 
> 
> regards, j



Yeah that is just marketing hype because some people don't think that old antennas and old preamps can receive the new digital signals. So they market these new "digital antennas" because people think they are better. Go figure.


----------



## nycdigital09

(I do have a preamp, it's an older Radio Shack mast mount type ( pre-digital ). the only thing is that rat shack preamps have lots of noise >5d itll add more noise to your signal, which means it probably wont do much, for break ups, if i was you i would get a cm 7777, i know theyre kind of expensive, new close $70 incl shipping. but try on ebay i bought one used, original box you cant tell it was used it looks new, for $34 included the shipping. i had the rat shack preamp installed on my probe 9 fm antenna, and i took it off it was adding alot of noise to my signal, it was actually better without the preamp, now i have winegard 3700 preamp on it, it makes a world of difference i get poukeepsie and ct crystal clear


----------



## J_ph

Hi Ryan


That's a lot of equipment.... and a lot of patience!


j


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18591151
> 
> 
> Hi Ryan
> 
> 
> That's a lot of equipment.... and a lot of patience!
> 
> 
> j



Two things:


I live almost 50 miles from the ESB with some hills blocking the signal. I need it!


I am a ham radio operator. I love antennas!


----------



## J_ph

>I am a ham radio operator. I love antennas!


I think that is my problem, I'm looking at this as a task, I need to look at this as a hobby.


Here's the info that I found that the coax ground needs to be less than 20 feet long. Does this sound right and can I use the same wire for both the coax mounting block and the mast ground wire?


>The ground wire shall not be longer than 20 feet.

http://www.dbsinstall.com/diy/Grounding-2.asp 


j


----------



## nycdigital09

i use a 6 ft ground rod, buried bout 4 ft deep, i run grounding wire from the block, i read on other places that it needs to be much more. i never come close to get hit by lighting is funny i havent seen thunderstorm with lighting around here at least couple of years.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18591280
> 
> 
> Here's the info that I found that the coax ground needs to be less than 20 feet long. Does this sound right and can I use the same wire for both the coax mounting block and the mast ground wire?



To satisfy the NEC, yes that will work.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18591324
> 
> 
> i use a 6 ft ground rod, buried bout 4 ft deep, i run grounding wire from the block, i read on other places that it needs to be much more. i never come close to get hit by lighting is funny i havent seen thunderstorm with lighting around here at least couple of years.



A 6ft rod is fine because a single ground rod is unlikely to adequately protect you from a direct strike.


----------



## J_ph

I'm probably over-thinking the grounding thing. The problem that I have is that if run the coax into a ridge vent on my roof, and use a ground block at the ridge then I would need to run 50 feet of ground wire to get to the ground rod.


Is it OK to run a ground wire from the mast to the coax ground block and then to the ground rod using a single wire for both the mast and the coax ground block?


----------



## yobiworld

Any news on LATV??


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18590535
> 
> 
> Channel 13 is bad again. I read that article and it does not matter where I aim the antenna. The day it was put up channel 13 was breaking up bad and we pointed it every direction.



Just to be sure I'm communicating clearly, the point of the article was interference set up by local features creates hot spots, both in height above ground and location on your property. This is beyond re-aiming the antenna at its current location.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18591984
> 
> 
> Any news on LATV??



unlikely u will see LATV return to the airwaves in NYC. LATV cut a deal directly with TWC for continued carriage after WPIX dropped it.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18591413
> 
> 
> I'm probably over-thinking the grounding thing. The problem that I have is that if run the coax into a ridge vent on my roof, and use a ground block at the ridge then I would need to run 50 feet of ground wire to get to the ground rod.
> 
> 
> Is it OK to run a ground wire from the mast to the coax ground block and then to the ground rod using a single wire for both the mast and the coax ground block?



u should not be running more than a few inches of ground wire. ground wire needs to be shorter than your coax run. ground block should be inches from your ground rod. coax from antenna to ground block then ground block to tv even though it may not be the most direct run.


to get an idea, take a look at cable tv drops in your neighborhood. typically you will see ground block next to electric conduit or cold water spicket.


----------



## LenL

Just want to report for the record that there was a widespread transmission shut down yesterday.


I was watching TV around 5:30 PM and changing channels at around 6 PM when I noticed signals were down 20 to 30% on all the major stations transmitting from the ESB. For example 7.1 which is usually around 92% was down to 62%. The ditto for 5.1. I switched to my other antenna and the the reception on that was down too. Later in the evening the power was back up on both.


So I suspect something was going on at the ESB.


----------



## J_ph




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18592260
> 
> 
> u should not be running more than a few inches of ground wire. ground wire needs to be shorter than your coax run. ground block should be inches from your ground rod. coax from antenna to ground block then ground block to tv even though it may not be the most direct run.
> 
> 
> to get an idea, take a look at cable tv drops in your neighborhood. typically you will see ground block next to electric conduit or cold water spicket.



I see my error! I had assumed that the power supply for the pre-amp needed to be near the mast, so I was going to run the coax into the roof and therefore I would have needed to run a ground up there. But I hunted down a manual for a CM7777 (which I don't own yet) and it says to mount the power near the TV. So this would allow me to run the coax down the side of the house to the ground block near the ground rod. and, then enter the house and connect the power for the pre-amp.


Originally I was going to use a distribution amp instead of a pre-amp..... I may need to change my plans.


thanks, j


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18592317
> 
> 
> Just want to report for the record that there was a widespread transmission shut down yesterday.
> 
> 
> I was watching TV around 5:30 PM and changing channels at around 6 PM when I noticed signals were down 20 to 30% on all the major stations transmitting from the ESB. For example 7.1 which is usually around 92% was down to 62%. The ditto for 5.1. I switched to my other antenna and the the reception on that was down too. Later in the evening the power was back up on both.
> 
> 
> So I suspect something was going on at the ESB.



Really? I thought it was just the wonderful tropo opening we had dying down.


----------



## keyboard21

NEW Channel as of two days ago. HSN (home shopping) is now on 39.5 The other 39 subs are all showing BARS with a beeping sound.


Zapit, titantv, Do not show any subs, but does say WNYN-LP . 39.5 shows WYNY on the tv.


My aunt likes to watch HSN. I know many here won't care either way.


I knew HSN would have to change from analog. Looks like they did.


I wonder what other programing WYNY will have? TV-listings shows spanish programing. Even though it is just BARS now.


Anyone else getting this station?


Anyone know more information on this?


----------



## nycdigital09

keyboard21 what happened to azteca tv did they move another channel, whats on 39 now, any news on this tv ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18595260
> 
> 
> keyboard21 what happened to azteca tv did they move another channel, whats on 39 now, any news on this tv ?



Have no clue what happened to azteca. And just as I reported above. The other subs show colored bars and a long beep. Maybe something coming?


----------



## nycdigital09

ok thaxs, for reply i been unable to picku 39.1 for some time, i'm hoping that this tv shows up in nyc, i pickit up from ct when there is skip. I know that most of major mediat markets this tv is broadcast there, like you said maybe something is brewiing down pipeline. peace


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18595332
> 
> 
> ok thaxs, for reply i been unable to picku 39.1 for some time, i'm hoping that this tv shows up in nyc, i pickit up from ct when there is skip. I know that most of major mediat markets this tv is broadcast there, like you said maybe something is brewiing down pipeline. peace



Well when I moved the antenna to get channel 11 in strong. I lost 29 (boring Christian guy) And it seems that 39 comes in at 75. Sometimes we lose it for a hour. I do not want to move the antenna to get 39 and lose 11.


39 happens to be the weakest of all stations. For us


----------



## nycdigital09

yes, i went to over to my tv and would you know it Ii picked up 39.1 youre right only color bars, 39.5 is the only one showing any programming HSN. I just made this crude uhf antenna out of a coat hanger, i stuck out my window, I'm pickin up all the tv stations. lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18595440
> 
> 
> yes, i went to over to my tv and would you know it Ii picked up 39.1 youre right only color bars, 39.5 is the only one showing any programming HSN. I just made this crude uhf antenna out of a coat hanger, i stuck out my window, I'm pickin up all the tv stations. lol



How many subs are you showing on 39? total? With or without bars?


----------



## nycdigital09

kb 21 where are you at, and what antenna are you using for ota signal ?


----------



## nycdigital09

sorry i need refresh once in awhile







i get 39.1 and 4 subs all color bars except

39.5


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18595497
> 
> 
> kb 21 where are you at, and what antenna are you using for ota signal ?



I explained many times. So what is once more.










Bottom line:


Terk- 50 antenna. Best we ever had. Replacement would be new Terk-55 hd


In queens 7 miles from ESB Almost direct line of site of EBS. Apt facing west.


It is for my aunt. she gets all major and subs. All at 85 to 100 signal. The new 39 being the weakest at 75. Sometime goes out.


If I move the antenna I am sure I can get 39 better and then lose 11. 11 does not like the other wall. lol


We seem to be one of the luckiest here on the boards.


PS I tried the Clearstream C2 and got the same performance as the old terk. SO I returned the C2.


----------



## reddice

You are just too lucky and it is annoying for me. I am much closer and as all you know I have the worst luck with reception when it comes to channels 11, 13 & 31. As I said sans channel 21, 50 & the lp stations all the rest come in good to channels 7 & 47 excellent. I have no line of site to the esb. Had a great line of site to wtc1 until it was destroyed it. Can't get 39 either. Channel 13 I lost again with it's terrible reception. You get everything good for you don't have to rub it in.


Typing good on the iPod as I never did texting but I am learning how to type on a tiny keyboard.


----------



## nycdigital09

red i never you can type on ipod you mean iphone, lol you got crummy reception cos youre surrounded by high rises i can relate to that, i cant get 50 or any nj channels but i can get connecticut channels 50 miles out flawless.


----------



## nycdigital09

keyboard 21 you live close to me im on junction and no blvd route 25a you know where that is, you must be in flushing area im next to ya! can you get njn ch 50 from your location ?


----------



## raj2001

Come to think of it, today is much better than yesterday was so maybe there was some sort of power reduction at the ESB yesterday.


Or it could have just been weather.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18595706
> 
> 
> You are just too lucky and it is annoying for me. I am much closer and as all you know I have the worst luck with reception when it comes to channels 11, 13 & 31. As I said sans channel 21, 50 & the lp stations all the rest come in good to channels 7 & 47 excellent. I have no line of site to the esb. Had a great line of site to wtc1 until it was destroyed it. Can't get 39 either. Channel 13 I lost again with it's terrible reception. You get everything good for you don't have to rub it in.
> 
> 
> Typing good on the iPod as I never did texting but I am learning how to type on a tiny keyboard.



Ellen loves the IPOD lol


I was asked I did not rub it in. As you know I tried 8 different antennas over the years. I did much work for my Aunt. Most people are too lazy to do the work. I am far from her also. I never complained. I did the trial and error. I do get annoyed also when people say. "I cant go a hour to get an antenna. I rather use a paperclip and spend time on here complaining that I get no reception". lol


HAve you tried the C2 or wineguard? Yaggi? Indoor or outdoor?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18595932
> 
> 
> keyboard 21 you live close to me im on junction and no blvd route 25a you know where that is, you must be in flushing area im next to ya! can you get njn ch 50 from your location ?



No NJN 50 Can you ?


----------



## nycdigital09

i cant get 50 or any nj channels but i can get connecticut channels 50 miles out flawless. i have major issues with coop complex across the street from me, otherwise i would get njn, i use to get it with analog but it had alot of ghosting, multipath issues. i watch the channel thru direct tv, but i wanna pick up over the air, thru antenna, btw youre in queens near me. haha


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18596443
> 
> 
> i cant get 50 or any nj channels but i can get connecticut channels 50 miles out flawless. i have major issues with coop complex across the street from me, otherwise i would get njn, i use to get it with analog but it had alot of ghosting, multipath issues. i watch the channel thru direct tv, but i wanna pick up over the air, thru antenna, btw youre in queens near me. haha



I'm 24 miles from the ESB on Long Island, I can get NJN 50.1 and NJB 58.1, but have not tried any CT stations. Maybe one day I'll go on the roof a try it for the heck of it. Wish I would have hooked up a rotor.


----------



## reddice

NUN 50 came in great with the Terk HDTVa. With the outdoor Rca it is terrible because it is not pointing toward nj. My antenna aim according to tvfool is pointed towards wliw because where it told me to point it I could not get channel 41 and the other channels were weaker.


----------



## reddice

On the question on rotor can it be hooked up to any antenna? Would it work with the RCA I have?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18596843
> 
> 
> On the question on rotor can it be hooked up to any antenna? Would it work with the RCA I have?



It should with any standard mast. You need to run the control wires ( 3 or 4 wire) from the control box inside to the antenna.


----------



## Dave Loudin

reddice, do you have any flexibility to where you mount your antenna? If so, before you throw the towel in on 13 completely, you need to try raising or lowering the antenna or moving the mounting location.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18596443
> 
> 
> i cant get 50 or any nj channels but i can get connecticut channels 50 miles out flawless. i have major issues with coop complex across the street from me, otherwise i would get njn, i use to get it with analog but it had alot of ghosting, multipath issues. i watch the channel thru direct tv, but i wanna pick up over the air, thru antenna, btw youre in queens near me. haha



Do you use an outdoor or indoor antenna? What type? In a house or APT?


We do not get CT stations either. We have an APT. So we use a terk-50 Long large indoor/outdoor antenna/


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21, I use outdoor antenna, uhf yagi type, is bout 5 ft length. it picks up everything uhf vhf, i dont know what brand or model all i know is that is uhf only. it rocks. i bought it on ebay for $ 25. I havent seen the same antenna anywhere It might be a channel master brand. it has lots of directors and dipoles its medium size, I use a preamp with it for cable loss.


----------



## nycdigital09

( I'm 24 miles from the ESB on Long Island, I can get NJN 50.1 and NJB 58.1, but have not tried any CT stations. Maybe one day I'll go on the roof a try it for the heck of it. Wish I would have hooked up a rotor.]


Mikepier can you receive 29.1 and 50.1 I'm surprise you can p/u from that distance. what antenna system are using to receive ota ?


----------



## reddice

29 for me comes into the 70s with the outdoor. I don't want that channel as I rather get 51 wnjn as good but it is much weaker.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18598988
> 
> 
> ( I'm 24 miles from the ESB on Long Island, I can get NJN 50.1 and NJB 58.1, but have not tried any CT stations. Maybe one day I'll go on the roof a try it for the heck of it. Wish I would have hooked up a rotor.]
> 
> 
> Mikepier can you receive 29.1 and 50.1 I'm surprise you can p/u from that distance. what antenna system are using to receive ota ?



I forgot what 29.1 is ( I'm at work). I'll check when I get home.

As far as 50.1, I can get it pretty good. Right now I have a 2 way splitter and still get 50% strength, but if it's bad weather, it will drop out. I imagine if I removed the splitter, it would be much better.

I can also get WNJB 58.1 at about 40%. Both stations have identical programming.


I'm using a used Radio Shack VU-75XR mounted on my chimney. Look back at post 11282 to see a picture.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> I forgot what 29.1 is ( I'm at work). I'll check when I get home.
> 
> As far as 50.1, I can get it pretty good. Right now I have a 2 way splitter and still get 50% strength, but if it's bad weather, it will drop out. I imagine if I removed the splitter, it would be much better.
> 
> I can also get WNJB 58.1 at about 40%. Both stations have identical programming.
> 
> 
> I'm using a used Radio Shack VU-75XR mounted on my chimney. Look back at post 11282 to see a picture.



if i can ask what town in LI you're in mike thxs


----------



## nycdigital09

This may have been done before, but I am just curious as to how many dxrs there are here and what kind of results that you've had. I don't care if you think dx means 100+miles or 500+ miles I want to hear your stories and longest distances as well as what you used to do it...please do tell all. I do know that there is one here that has records that blow mine out of the water...I sure hope he finds this and posts.


Here is mine. I picked up analog uhf channel from virginia beach, using a radio shack uhf yagi antenna model u120 is long been discontinued, also dx from baltimore, and DC. this is back in 90's when i lived in howard beach, southern part of queens i had Los to the soutwest, mind you i lived closed to the ocean, i also picked up stations from harrisburg and philadlelphia usually steady, there was pbs station from annapolis md. that i picked up most of the time without any tropo or skip. it was 180+ miles. of course this would not be possible now with digital, or very unlikely to say the least.


----------



## reddice

Digital travels much worse than analog does so good luck dxing digital.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18601219
> 
> 
> Digital travels much worse than analog does so good luck dxing digital.



The travel loss is the same for digital and analog. The problem is that digital has a cliff-edge effect in reception, i.e. min signal or nothing, whereas analog is never lost, i.e. graceful fading. So digital reception with perfect video and sound is lost long before analog is unwatchable.

This problem is magnified for the US chosen modulation (8-VSB) and is not anywhere is severe in the rest of the world where COFDM modulation is the standard. Sorry for this mouthful of acronyms.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18600321
> 
> 
> if i can ask what town in LI you're in mike thxs



Wantagh, NY.

South of the Southern State Pkwy, North of Sunrise Highway


Just checked for 29.1 (WFME 66.1) and I can't get it. I'm surprised since the TV fool/Google earth program says I should get it with no problem at 39 miles away, and the signal is stronger than WNJB.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18601461
> 
> 
> Wantagh, NY.
> 
> South of the Southern State Pkwy, North of Sunrise Highway
> 
> 
> Just checked for 29.1 (WFME 66.1) and I can't get it. I'm surprised since the TV fool/Google earth program says I should get it with no problem at 39 miles away, and the signal is stronger than WNJB.



Trust me you are not missing much. 90% of the time it is that old geezer babeling that the world is going to end next year.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18601765
> 
> 
> Trust me you are not missing much. 90% of the time it is that old geezer babeling that the world is going to end next year.



Oh, ok. Now I remember. It was some old guy sitting in a chair rambling about something. I think I did get this channel when I first hooked up the antenna outside. But after I hooked up the 2 way splitter, it was gone.


----------



## reddice

I will try a amp first and if that don't improve anything the I will just going to see if I can repoint the RCA751.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> I will try a amp first and if that don't improve anything the I will just going to see if I can repoint the RCA751.



reddice may i suggest you get larger antenna, like a winegard hd 7696p http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Antennas&sku= adding a preamp/amp will not help. you have multipath problems your antenna rca751 is not cut out for handling this problem if you really want vhf high get ya1713 from solidsignal is about $40 it will get that weak channel, you really want.

good luck buddy


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Wantagh, NY.
> 
> South of the Southern State Pkwy, North of Sunrise Highway



mike, your close bellmore, ok I know somewhat the area, you should get LI stations pretty good then, I receive wbab from babylon on my fm tuner, great station. have you tried attachin a preamp to your antenna could help gainin more with splitter your using.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/18601292
> 
> 
> The travel loss is the same for digital and analog. The problem is that digital has a cliff-edge effect in reception, i.e. min signal or nothing, whereas analog is never lost, i.e. graceful fading. So digital reception with perfect video and sound is lost long before analog is unwatchable.
> 
> This problem is magnified for the US chosen modulation (8-VSB) and is not anywhere is severe in the rest of the world where COFDM modulation is the standard. Sorry for this mouthful of acronyms.



I thought it was the other way around - COFDM was worse over long distances than 8VSB, whereas 8VSB was worse in urban situations than COFDM due to multipath.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18602198
> 
> 
> I will try a amp first and if that don't improve anything the I will just going to see if I can repoint the RCA751.



If your antenna is pointing towards WLIW 21, of course you won't get 13 reliably.


----------



## AloEuro

Ladies, get your shopping cart ready, as you may know the HSN of Analog ch.60 is DTV 39wNYN-5, unfortunately only pixelated in 20-30 down signal level, maybe they are trying to discover selves.

39WNYN- 1,2,3,4, the same infomercials on all 4subs, probably spanish -minus 4hrs differential, West Coast maybe Hawaian time?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18604371
> 
> 
> Ladies, get your shopping cart ready, as you may know the HSN of Analog ch.60 is DTV 39wNYN-5, unfortunately only pixelated in 20-30 down signal level, maybe they are trying to discover selves.
> 
> 39WNYN- 1,2,3,4, the same infomercials on all 4subs, probably spanish -minus 4hrs differential, West Coast maybe Hawaian time?



As I stated days ago. 39.5 comes in at 75 signal for us. Sometimes it goes out and comes back. Weak at best. But good enough for us to get in most of the time.


Was hoping the other subs would be better stuff. Guess not


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18601765
> 
> 
> Trust me you are not missing much. 90% of the time it is that old geezer babeling that the world is going to end next year.





You forgot his wife does half the babbling. Due to their marriage.


In a divorce she would get half babbling rights. lol


Yes no one misses 29.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9


Waste of bandwidth. imo


----------



## reddice

Unless HSN is in HD then I don't care about it on channel 39.

As I will explain 13 signal can go like this: 65 68 54 67 51 66 48 63 then when it gets bad 45 18 59 44 then it pixelated bad. I am going to get a bigger pole on the mask. Any good tall poles that connect to masks that dishes and antennas use.


----------



## Dave Loudin

I guess I'm not getting through, but reddice, I believe you need to MOVE your antenna either higher or lower to begin with to see if 13 will pop in. Next, if you can, move the mounting location to somewhere else. If you've got hot and cold spots created by multipath (as described at Ken Nist's site), then rotating the antenna or swapping out will do no good.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18604048
> 
> 
> I thought it was the other way around - COFDM was worse over long distances than 8VSB, whereas 8VSB was worse in urban situations than COFDM due to multipath.



COFDM has a higher theoretical threshold SNR than 8-VSB (US Std). The difference is about 3dB. In the world of NO multipath, 8-VSB would reach further, by about 3-4 km. However, in the real world there is no such thing as no multipath (except at the FCC).

COFDM takes advantage of most multipath and adds it coherently with the primary signal thus improving the SNR! In contrast, 8-VSB requires a complex equalizer at the Rx to process the multipath. At best, the equalizer attenuates the multipath and that process creates new noise. Thus the original SNR (at the TX) always deteriorates due to multipath.

The upshot of this is that the reliable reception of 8-VSB does not match the ideal model of the FCC as far as max range and is not as stable within the receivable range. That is well known.


----------



## reddice

As I said before I get 13. It can come in good one hour and then terrible the next. Explain why it does that as 11 & 31 does the same thing. All the other channels don't do that as those weak channels they keep screwing around with the power levels. If they would just run full power for those who don't have a clear view of site and yes the strong channels still stay strong.


----------



## raj2001

So what makes you think they're screwing with the power levels? Out here 13 has been very stable. Weak, but stable. I lock and receive it with maybe 1 dropout per week at most.


----------



## reddice

Weak but stable but still weak. I know 13 has bad noise and multipath which makes a weak signal unstable. If they boosted there power than all of that will go away.


When I go on the computer I will be posting some pics of my antenna setup and the los that I have. As I said my uncle put up the antenna and did a sloppy job. Did not mount it where I wanted it, broke the transformer that came with it by twisting the coax and leads too much and put the antenna a little on a slant. It mostly works good except for those probmatic channels.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18607824
> 
> 
> Weak but stable but still weak.



But I live 50 miles away from the ESB... everything is weak here pretty much. But Thirteen isn't actually that bad. I can receive them here with an antenna 10ft off the ground which I can only do with a few stations.



> Quote:
> I know 13 has bad noise and multipath which makes a weak signal unstable. If they boosted there power than all of that will go away.



13 doesn't have noise and multipath. YOU have noise and multipath in your location. Thirteen boosting power won't necessarily make that go away. You live in an urban environment. Multipath and high noise pretty much goes with the territory.


Either you get a more directional antenna like we've been telling you to, or get the channel from a subscription service. That will be the only things that cure your problem.


----------



## reddice

I could hook my line from my cable modem and get all the local stations in hd but then I won't be able to get online.


I also meant to say noise & multipath for me. Typing this on the touch screen so I make typos. Channel 7 must not be affected because they broadcast at the lower 174 MHz where there is less interfence from radio waves. Btw should I try a fm trap. Antyome know of any.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> My antenna aim according to tvfool is pointed towards wliw because where it told me to point it I could not get channel 41 and the other channels were weaker.



reddice, no wonder you don't get 13. lol


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18608187
> 
> 
> reddice, no wonder you don't get 13. lol



Where tv fool told me to point it I could not get 41 and that day 13 was breaking up so bad it did not matter where I pointed it. As I said some times 11 & 13 come in fine or even good but it never lasts and then it drops to the 40s and just keeps breaking up.


----------



## nyctveng

try using a splitter so you can get online AND get HD signals. easier than buying an fm trap, getting a new antenna, remounting and repointing your antenna, asking for permission from your grandmother, and complaining everyday from your ipod.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18608184
> 
> 
> I could hook my line from my cable modem and get all the local stations in hd but then I won't be able to get online.
> 
> 
> I also meant to say noise & multipath for me. Typing this on the touch screen so I make typos. Channel 7 must not be affected because they broadcast at the lower 174 MHz where there is less interfence from radio waves. Btw should I try a fm trap. Antyome know of any.


----------



## reddice

I read that the RCA751 has low gain on channels 11, 12 & 13.


----------



## AloEuro

Over the weekend the ch.39 was nowhere to be seen, the subs regressed to color bars-pixelated, the same with HSN on 39-5 LD, some are at 720x480i 30 HZ other subs 704x480i.

Azteca on 63-6 has no signal 0-0--0. where are thou? June 11 is approaching, I vanna go to Capetown or anywhere nearby


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18610562
> 
> 
> Over the weekend the ch.39 was nowhere to be seen, the subs regressed to color bars-pixelated, the same with HSN on 39-5 LD, some are at 720x480i 30 HZ other subs 704x480i.
> 
> Azteca on 63-6 has no signal 0-0--0. where are thou? June 11 is approaching, I vanna go to Capetown or anywhere nearby



Does anyone know what will broadcast on the other subs of 39? Spanish programing? Or will they lease out their signal? As they did with HSN


----------



## reddice

Not complaining but channel 13 the last few days has been coming in good peaking it in the mid 70s. I know it won't last but all I am asking is for the few others who are having problem or even those lucky ones who get if good is it stronger for all of you or is it just tropo atmosphere.


----------



## raj2001

13 has been more or less the same here.


I have a new preamp I have to pick up at the post office though. Should give me a significant improvement on my weak stations.


----------



## reddice

I am afraid to buy a preamp online with its return policy because it can make channel 7 worse. I already peak channel 7 in the 90s and I heard that too much power can make a digital signal weaker.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> I am afraid to buy a preamp online with its return policy because it can make channel 7 worse. I already peak channel 7 in the 90s and I heard that too much power can make a digital signal weaker.



Reddice, you can buy a winegard hdp269 preamp, it doesn't overload you signal, I use one myself I get strong signals from most stations, what it does it for me it helps me with long cable run that i use, 60 ft. it has high input, meaning it doesn't overload on strong stations close, it might help 13, for you. I have one for sale if you wanna buy it. I sell it to you for cheap, $25 its both uhf, vhf at the same time here is a link to preamp http://www.solidsignal.com


----------



## AloEuro

I switch from one box to another, Now-Next thru week and 12hrs EPG for weekends, the 12hrs give me reading of Info technical data like 39WNYN- 720x480i 30 hz other subs lower, but right now 39-1 or 39-2820 does not give any signal.

The other box for brief time gave on -1,2,3,4, the same infomercials,pixelated so I could not read,but for sure it was spanish,-5 as you know is HSN, pixelated


----------



## jzareski

FYI,


By yesterday afternoon, Tuesday May 11, 2010, WEDW 49 Bridgeport (Trumbull) digital had increased ERP from 91 kW to 170 kW.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> By yesturday afternoon, Tuesday May 11, 2010, WEDW 49 Bridgeport (Trumbull) digital had increased ERP from 91 kW to 170 kW



no wonder i was pickin it up with close 100 percent on my zenith dt901 I was at fcc website last nigh i noticed that wtxx ch20, hartford has cp construction application for more power, im on cliffside on pickin it up, i can get it when there is tropo enhancement.

ty


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18623734
> 
> 
> no wonder i was pickin it up with close 100 percent on my zenith dt901 I was at fcc website last nigh i noticed that wtxx ch20, hartford has cp construction application for more power, im on cliffside on pickin it up, i can get it when there is tropo enhancement.
> 
> ty



I can only peak WEDW at about 9%. Man nycdigital09 I bet you can even pick up stations from Philadelphia with a 10 dollar pair of rabbit ears. I really envy you.


----------



## reddice

Here are picture of my antenna setup. I would post more but it refuses to upload them as attachments.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18624686
> 
> 
> Here are picture of my antenna setup. I would post more but it refuses to upload them as attachments.




Is it possible to take another picture from the opposite end of the antenna? I want to see what kind of LOS you have to the ESB.

That's a wierd looking antenna. Looks like a VHF only, although specs say its for VHF/UHF.


----------



## jzareski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18623734
> 
> 
> no wonder i was pickin it up with close 100 percent on my zenith dt901 I was at fcc website last nigh i noticed that wtxx ch20, hartford has cp construction application for more power, im on cliffside on pickin it up, i can get it when there is tropo enhancement.
> 
> ty



Thank you for the report.


----------



## nycdigital09

red-dice, sorry to rain on your parade, but you need a more robust antenna, that rca your using aint cutting it. get yourself a wg or cm rig, thats my 2 cents


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> 13 has been more or less the same here.
> 
> 
> I have a new preamp I have to pick up at the post office though. Should give me a significant improvement on my weak stations.
> 
> __________________
> 
> Ryan, N2RJ



ryan, what type of preamp your using on your setup. your using stacked cm 4228? the old type antenna which was better for uhf ornewer one, how good is vhf hifh reception on 4228 i been thinking about getting one. ps I was at dxinfocenter i see there is a strong tropospheric beam for tonight.


----------



## raj2001

I am currently using the CM7777 but I got a new Research Comms 9262 LNA that I am changing out the CM7777 for.


The CM7777 is a decent amp with 2dB NF which gives me lock on everything. Only problem is that WNYW drops out a bit from time to time. I am hoping the RC 9262 will solve that.


I have 2 of the old CM4228A. High VHF with one antenna is so-so. Two of them, forget about VHF. It gets WABC 7 and 8 (58) out here (48.6 miles from the ESB) but not 11 or 13 which is why I have the Winegard YA1713.


The new 4228 is a piece of junk.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18591984
> 
> 
> Any news on LATV??



i am hearing another spanish subchannel may appear on wpix but it will not be latv. stay tuned........


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18627753
> 
> 
> red-dice, sorry to rain on your parade, but you need a more robust antenna, that rca your using aint cutting it. get yourself a wg or cm rig, thats my 2 cents



I needed something small. I could not put up a big antenna. I get the strong channels reliable it is the weak channels especially 13 & 31 I have problems with. 13 is still watchable which is why I am asking is it true that the rca751 have worse reception with channels 11-13 but lower channels have more gain.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18629358
> 
> 
> i am hearing another spanish subchannel may appear on wpix but it will not be latv. stay tuned........



OH MAn why not a movie station ?



You hear anything on the new 39? so far 39.5 HSN new


39.1 .2 .3 .4 are bars and beeping.


----------



## halsnook

Random question: What technology does WPIX use for their live shots? Even the networks seem to still be using SD for most live hits, but WPIX is fully HD and looks awesome. I haven't worked in local news for about 5 years, so my knowledge is limited to microwave and sat trucks.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18629378
> 
> 
> I needed something small. I could not put up a big antenna. I get the strong channels reliable it is the weak channels especially 13 & 31 I have problems with. 13 is still watchable which is why I am asking is it true that the rca751 have worse reception with channels 11-13 but lower channels have more gain.



My Radio Shack VU-75XR is not that much bigger than that RCA you have.

Radio Shack discontinued that model, but the closest model is the AntennaCraft. Its a high VHF-UHF which is fine for Ch7.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3739595 

You could always return it.


You could try the existing mast but I think you need a better mast, maybe something a few feet taller taller. Radio Shack has all the hardware you need for that too.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18629378
> 
> 
> I needed something small. I could not put up a big antenna. I get the strong channels reliable it is the weak channels especially 13.



coming here everyday to say the same things will not solve your problem. either get a different antenna or use your iPod to email a complaint to the weak channels. no pain no gain. the antenna below is for VHF high and is very cheap. since the UHF channels are so forgiving, you would probably receive them well, no matter what.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=716079000987


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18629358
> 
> 
> i am hearing another spanish subchannel may appear on wpix but it will not be latv. Stay tuned........




oh where did you read that??


----------



## AloEuro

While your Antena may look like Fredd from stoneage used it, efforts to hook it up, to

make it work are commendable, experimentations are needed.

But why to make the wings always horizontal-flat, how about put it in rainbow shape, might be worth to try it, you can use fire from gas range to heat the steel to 'bow' it.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18635126
> 
> 
> coming here everyday to say the same things will not solve your problem. either get a different antenna or use your iPod to email a complaint to the weak channels. no pain no gain. the antenna below is for VHF high and is very cheap. since the UHF channels are so forgiving, you would probably receive them well, no matter what.
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=716079000987



No one these days wants to put in the work. I went through 7 or so antennas and different placements. Until I found the perfect place and antenna for us.


Everyone is different


----------



## mikepier

Last night I was watching "Ask This Old House" where they were putting an antenna on soemone's house. It looked like an impressive antenna, and the ATOH website said it was made by Winegard, but it did not list the model. It was a VHF/UHF antenna. Anyone know what model it was?


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18638830
> 
> 
> No one these days wants to put in the work. I went through 7 or so antennas and different placements. Until I found the perfect place and antenna for us.
> 
> 
> Everyone is different



I agree. I can't just be buying antennas to have my uncle to put up. I am somewhat pleased with the RCA751 since it is small but now I should have gotten a bigger mast and the ChannelMaster 2016 since it is for high VHF. (No stupid WKOB interfernce with WCBS). Lesson learned that my grandmother is frustated with the antennas and will not allow me to put up any more.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18642157
> 
> 
> I agree. I can't just be buying antennas to have my uncle to put up. I am somewhat pleased with the RCA751 since it is small but now I should have gotten a bigger mast and the ChannelMaster 2016 since it is for high VHF. (No stupid WKOB interfernce with WCBS). Lesson learned that my grandmother is frustated with the antennas and will not allow me to put up any more.



Who said anything about buying? You get 3 or 4 at once and try them out at same time. Return the ones that do not work well.


I do however understand what you must be going through with grandma. I had same thing with aunt.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Last night I was watching "Ask This Old House" where they were putting an antenna on soemone's house. It looked like an impressive antenna, and the ATOH website said it was made by Winegard, but it did not list the model. It was a VHF/UHF antenna. Anyone know what model it was?



The antenna installed was a mid range Winegard 76** series


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18641218
> 
> 
> Last night I was watching "Ask This Old House" where they were putting an antenna on soemone's house. It looked like an impressive antenna, and the ATOH website said it was made by Winegard, but it did not list the model. It was a VHF/UHF antenna. Anyone know what model it was?



Winegard 7697.


----------



## LenL

Usually in the 70's and yesterday it was 98-100%. I checked the tropo site and it does not show anything for NJ that was different.


SO.....my question is that elusive one for which we can never get an answer. Was it tropo? Weather? humidity? or simply the OTA gods shining down upon me?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Usually in the 70's and yesterday it was 98-100%. I checked the tropo site and it does not show anything for NJ that was different.
> 
> 
> SO.....my question is that elusive one for which we can never get an answer. Was it tropo? Weather? humidity? or simply the OTA gods shining down upon me?



len i think it was tropo, i picked up connecticut stations for a brief moment, they usually only come in when it gets hot and humid,and when it cools off in late into the night. I lost ch21 due to folliage, trees are practically on top of my yagi uhf antenna, lol


----------



## raj2001

Trees are killing me here too althought with my antennas and preamp I don't have a big problem. I think I might get started on this year's firewood harvest, lol.


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 is breakup city again. It was fine for a week and now it is bad again. No it is not where I have the stinking antenna pointed because it was fine for a week. It them screwing around with the power levels again.


I want a amp that I connect near the tv and not one that has to be mounted near the antenna. Any recommendations?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18647892
> 
> 
> Channel 13 is breakup city again. It was fine for a week and now it is bad again. No it is not where I have the stinking antenna pointed because it was fine for a week. It them screwing around with the power levels again.
> 
> 
> I want a amp that I connect near the tv and not one that has to be mounted near the antenna. Any recommendations?



recommendations is you take the good advice given here from other members here and stop complaining everyday!!!! just because you had it for a week does not mean it's WNET screwing around with power levels.


----------



## keyboard21

Question:


Channel 39.5 HSN


1) Where are they broadcasting this from? ESB?


2) Is it a side mounted antenna?


3) What is the power level they are putting out? Is it low



Seems many are having trouble getting it. Ours pixels sometimes. Some times goes out


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18647919
> 
> 
> recommendations is you take the good advice given here from other members here and stop complaining everyday!!!! just because you had it for a week does not mean it's WNET screwing around with power levels.



Then what causes it to be fine one day and terrible the next?


I complain because I got a outdoor antenna mainly to improve channel 13 instead ir made it worse. I also angry because dish does not carry 13 in hd so I thought a nice small antenna being only stinking 4 miles and the reception sucks yet you live much further with probably a weaker antenna and you get it nice and strong.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18647892
> 
> 
> Channel 13 is breakup city again. It was fine for a week and now it is bad again. No it is not where I have the stinking antenna pointed because it was fine for a week. It them screwing around with the power levels again.
> 
> 
> I want a amp that I connect near the tv and not one that has to be mounted near the antenna. Any recommendations?



An amp near the TV is not going to do you any good. It's going to amplify a signal that's not there to begin with. It should be mounted close as possible to the antenna, if in fact that is your problem.

If you can do a test with 13 with a portable TV or laptop at the antenna, and you still have problems getting 13, than an amp obviously is not going to help.


----------



## reddice

If I would have known channel 13 would have been worse with the outdoor I would have stayed with the Terk.


Maybe when my grandmother comes back after a week I will convince her that I get of this pos RCA 751 which gets channel 7 so strong and try the channelmaster 2016 with a bigger pole. Just I don't think my uncle would put it up. Lots of good hd programs on PBS and I am ticked that I can't watch them knowing that day the station just breaks up bad with that annoying break up sound and blocks of a picture.


----------



## reddice

Just ordered a fm trap from eBay. Heck it is worth a shot. The worst thing is that it won't do anything. Even if I lose low VHF it would be a improvement when I do rescans not to get wkob.


----------



## reddice

13 is fine now but was breaking up and flutuating a lot which points to noise. Channel 11 sometimes does this too but all the other channels excluding 31, 21, 50 come in fine all the time. This is why I am going to try the fm trap before trying something extreme like changing antennas.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18648116
> 
> 
> Just ordered a fm trap from eBay. Heck it is worth a shot. The worst thing is that it won't do anything. Even if I lose low VHF it would be a improvement when I do rescans not to get wkob.



What does a FM trap do?


Got a link to one?


edit:

I just looked it up, Is this just for channels 7 to 13? Will not work with higher channels?

*Any FM broadcast frequency times two lands on top of a TV channel in the range 7-13*


Is this the one you got from Ebay? No other ones that I see

http://cgi.ebay.com/75-Ohm-Coax-FM-T...item518baaddab


----------



## Dave Loudin

Once again, I don't think you've changed the height of the antenna you have. You should really try that out, if you can, especially after seeing how close it is to the building.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18649056
> 
> 
> What does a FM trap do?
> 
> 
> Got a link to one?
> 
> 
> edit:
> 
> I just looked it up, Is this just for channels 7 to 13? Will not work with higher channels?
> 
> *Any FM broadcast frequency times two lands on top of a TV channel in the range 7-13*
> 
> 
> Is this the one you got from Ebay? No other ones that I see
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/75-Ohm-Coax-FM-T...item518baaddab



That's it.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18649155
> 
> 
> That's it.



So these are just for 7 to 13 channels? Wont help let's say 39.5?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18649056
> 
> 
> Is this the one you got from Ebay? No other ones that I see
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/75-Ohm-Coax-FM-T...item518baaddab



Interesting that you guys should be talking about this. I've been off of this forum for several weeks - too many other projects to worry about TV reception - but during that time, I tried this FM trap. What I was after was some attenuation at 88MHz. I'm about a 1/2 mile from WYGG in Asbury Park, NJ. They're only broadcasting a whopping 50 watts, but at that range, it was showing up on my spectrum analyzer at about 37dbmv. That's after the CM7777 preamp, but I was still concerned that this signal was overloading the preamp and contributing to my VHF-Hi reception problems. Additionally, I have found that this little FM station has ongoing problems with their audio levels, such that they're regularly overdriving that signal into their transmitter. I won't go into that here, but apparently they don't have an engineer on staff, or they've cut back on outsourcing that much needed help. But I digress....


So I ordered that same FM trap, and found that it didn't cut 88Mhz *AT ALL.* I shouldn't have been surprised, since that would have also cut VHF channel 6, and that FM trap dates back to before the digital transition, so they would probably not want to attenuate that frequency.


I found some instructions elsewhere on the web about modifying that FM trap to increase the attenuation at the bottom of the FM band. The author claimed that this little modification could increase the 88Mhz attenuation to about -20db. I tried it, and measured -4db.


But much to my amazement, that -4db substantially improved the error rate that I was seeing with my high-def home theater PC recordings. Many of my recordings were now showing only fractions of a second of audio or video drop outs per hour, whereas previously, several seconds of dropouts was the norm, and it made most recordings unwatchable. I would actually re-record some programs a few times per day until I got a clean enough capture.


But I thought that there was room for further improvement, so I started searching for a better FM trap. The solution that I found was to use a VHF Hi/Lo splitter/combiner like this one

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...Splitters&sku= 


by Pico Macom. I just put a terminator on the low side, and sent the high side to my preamp. The end result was a whopping -32db of attenuation at 88Mhz. (FWIW, this did not provide any further improvement to my error rate, but it may help others who are right on top of local FM stations.)


Now here's a little something especially for those of you in Brooklyn who have been wrestling with reception issues for so very long: I happen to be aware that the problem station near me has (had?) a pirate repeater (duplicate transmitter) in Brooklyn, broadcasting at the same 88.1Mhz, and screwing up FM reception for countless people in that area. When I became aware of this, several years ago while trying to diagnose reception problems that I was having with WBGO 88.3 out of Newark, I actually took a drive to Brooklyn and confirmed it myself that this pirate transmitter was operating.


*REDDICE - PAY ATTENTION HERE!*


If that same pirate transmitter is still operational, and you happen to live nearby, then chances are good that it's stepping on your VHF-Hi reception the same way that the licensed transmitter in Asbury Park is stepping on mine. Even if the culprit is not a pirate station repeating WYGG's signal, I'm fairly sure that there are plenty of other FM stations (and pirate stations) operating in your area. With that said, I'd want to try the most aggressive FM trap that you can find. The splitter that I referenced above, used as a trap by capping off the low-side, would probably be money well spent. At the very least, it will help to rule out one possible cause of reception problems - FM overload.


Give it a try. Let us know.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/18649312
> 
> 
> Interesting that you guys should be talking about this. I've been off of this forum for several weeks - too many other projects to worry about TV reception - but during that time, I tried this FM trap. What I was after was some attenuation at 88MHz. I'm about a 1/2 mile from WYGG in Asbury Park, NJ. They're only broadcasting a whopping 50 watts, but at that range, it was showing up on my spectrum analyzer at about 37dbmv. That's after the CM7777 preamp, but I was still concerned that this signal was overloading the preamp and contributing to my VHF-Hi reception problems. Additionally, I have found that this little FM station has ongoing problems with their audio levels, such that they're regularly overdriving that signal into their transmitter. I won't go into that here, but apparently they don't have an engineer on staff, or they've cut back on outsourcing that much needed help. But I digress....
> 
> 
> So I ordered that same FM trap, and found that it didn't cut 88Mhz *AT ALL.* I shouldn't have been surprised, since that would have also cut VHF channel 6, and that FM trap dates back to before the digital transition, so they would probably not want to attenuate that frequency.
> 
> 
> I found some instructions elsewhere on the web about modifying that FM trap to increase the attenuation at the bottom of the FM band. The author claimed that this little modification could increase the 88Mhz attenuation to about -20db. I tried it, and measured -4db.
> 
> 
> But much to my amazement, that -4db substantially improved the error rate that I was seeing with my high-def home theater PC recordings. Many of my recordings were now showing only fractions of a second of audio or video drop outs per hour, whereas previously, several seconds of dropouts was the norm, and it made most recordings unwatchable. I would actually re-record some programs a few times per day until I got a clean enough capture.
> 
> 
> But I thought that there was room for further improvement, so I started searching for a better FM trap. The solution that I found was to use a VHF Hi/Lo splitter/combiner like this one
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...Splitters&sku=
> 
> 
> by Pico Macom. I just put a terminator on the low side, and sent the high side to my preamp. The end result was a whopping -32db of attenuation at 88Mhz. (FWIW, this did not provide any further improvement to my error rate, but it may help others who are right on top of local FM stations.)
> 
> 
> Now here's a little something especially for those of you in Brooklyn who have been wrestling with reception issues for so very long: I happen to be aware that the problem station near me has (had?) a pirate repeater (duplicate transmitter) in Brooklyn, broadcasting at the same 88.1Mhz, and screwing up FM reception for countless people in that area. When I became aware of this, several years ago while trying to diagnose reception problems that I was having with WBGO 88.3 out of Newark, I actually took a drive to Brooklyn and confirmed it myself that this pirate transmitter was operating.
> 
> 
> *REDDICE - PAY ATTENTION HERE!*
> 
> 
> If that same pirate transmitter is still operational, and you happen to live nearby, then chances are good that it's stepping on your VHF-Hi reception the same way that the licensed transmitter in Asbury Park is stepping on mine. Even if the culprit is not a pirate station repeating WYGG's signal, I'm fairly sure that there are plenty of other FM stations (and pirate stations) operating in your area. With that said, I'd want to try the most aggressive FM trap that you can find. The splitter that I referenced above, used as a trap by capping off the low-side, would probably be money well spent. At the very least, it will help to rule out one possible cause of reception problems - FM overload.
> 
> 
> Give it a try. Let us know.



SO my question still stands. This devices are only if you are haveing trouble with channels 7 to 13. Correct? I wish someone would answer me.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18649545
> 
> 
> SO my question still stands. This devices are only if you are haveing trouble with channels 7 to 13. Correct? I wish someone would answer me.



These devices are for correcting problems with FM overload of your pre-amp or tuner. The best ways of determining if that's really your problem are to either use some kind of signal analysis tool like a spectrum analyzer, or to check out fmfool.com for your location. Realize that FMfool will not tell you anything about pirate radio stations like the one(s) in Brooklyn.


FWIW, FM overload most commonly affects the VHF stations (2-6 and 7-13), because most preamps and tuners have two different circuits to handle each band. But just because you're having problems with VHF-hi doesn't mean it's caused by FM overload.


You can either do some more research, or spend 10 bucks on the part and shipping and try it.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

The RS 15-577 doesn't attenuate 88 MHZ since it is designed to preserve channel 6.


If you need an FM trap that whacks the whole FM band, try the FMFLT from Antennas Direct.


----------



## DTVintermods

FM interference (FMI) is a serious problem for DTV manifested in two ways when any two or three FMs may create distortion products that fall into a channel between 7 and 13:

1. F1+F2

2.If the tuner is "low IF." these new tuners are low cost and their IF is less than 10MHz (they are not zero IF). Thus F2-F1 fall into that range and that FM noise affect all channels, not just 7-13.

So check the FM channels, say within 10km of your Rx, find out if the tuner is "low IF" then do the math.

If you think you have a problem, you'll need either an FM notch filter at the suspected frequencies or a broadband, 88-108, filter.

The analog TV sets did have FM traps but the DTV sets do not have them...


----------



## reddice

Also I hate the pirate stations. All they all play is reggie music. You would think they would play something that we don't have like country or dance music.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/18649909
> 
> 
> The RS 15-577 doesn't attenuate 88 MHZ since it is designed to preserve channel 6.
> 
> 
> If you need an FM trap that whacks the whole FM band, try the FMFLT from Antennas Direct.




ProjectSHO89,


Hey, I'm not one for trolling or confrontation, but I can't help but notice that the Antennas Direct part looks an awful lot like the Radio Shack part, but with a different paint scheme:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/filter-attenuator.html 


Even the specs are pretty much the same:

http://support.radioshack.com/suppor...aq-1500577.htm 



*Have you actually tested the Antennas Direct trap? Do you have attenuation results at 88 Mhz?*


The reason I'm pushing back a little on this one is because if they are, in fact, the same part (or the same design), then it's going to have minimal impact on those lower FM frequency signals that most of these pirates are operating in. That's why I dumped my RS trap and went with the Pico Macom hi/low splitter.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/18651171
> 
> 
> ProjectSHO89,
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm not one for trolling or confrontation, but I can't help but notice that the Antennas Direct part looks an awful lot like the Radio Shack part, but with a different paint scheme:



Shells look the same, the innards are different!


I just happened to have one of each in the shop.




















The RS trap (top photo) is much narrower and much deeper than the AD trap.


The HLSJ is a good alternative to the dedicated trap. I don't have one to test, but it should be down at least 20 dB in the FM band.


This was a quick and dirty session. The SA hadn't warmed up fully so there was a bit of drift between the two snapshots.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18649056
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/75-Ohm-Coax-FM-T...item518baaddab



i have this one. also got from eBay. it did nothing for me.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/18651412
> 
> 
> The RS trap (top photo) is much narrower and much deeper than the AD trap.



And, consistent with my measurements, and nordloewelabs' experience, and the Radio Shack specs that I posted below, the RS trap doesn't extend very far down into the bottom of the FM band. In other words, it's useless for most folks here.



> Quote:
> The HLSJ is a good alternative to the dedicated trap. I don't have one to test, but it should be down at least 20 dB in the FM band.



I didn't test the full band, but as I mentioned above (Today, 01:42 AM) I measured -32db at the low end of the FM band. Pico Macom's specs call for at least -20db throughout the rest of the band.


Anyway, thanks for chiming in with those tests. There's nothing like real, objective data help solve a problem.


----------



## keyboard21

Question:


Channel 39.5 HSN


1) Where are they broadcasting this from? ESB?


2) Is it a side mounted antenna?


3) What is the power level they are putting out? Is it low



Seems many are having trouble getting it. Ours pixels sometimes. Some times goes out


----------



## reddice

Don't believe me fine but I know they keep screwing around with the antenna mast power levels that 7, 11 & 13 share. 7 still comes in great. Channel 11 yesterday was in the 70s but today I am getting it in the 40s and it is a pixalated mess. 13 is also weaker. With the other channels I know that they are there and I can watch them but with 11, 13 & 31 I can't rely on that day if it is watchable or not.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18647892
> 
> 
> Channel 13 is breakup city again. It was fine for a week and now it is bad again. No it is not where I have the stinking antenna pointed because it was fine for a week. It them screwing around with the power levels again.



And your proof that they're screwing around with the power levels is...? They've been pretty steady here. In fact, they've gotten better since I put my new preamp in.



> Quote:
> I want a amp that I connect near the tv and not one that has to be mounted near the antenna. Any recommendations?



Unless you have a long cable run (>50ft) I would recommend foregoing the preamp as it is likely to make things worse in your urban environment.


I wouldn't recommend the channel master 7777 for use in bklyn as it overloads and would likely make things worse for you.


Antennacraft? I have one I took down. It was OK and gave a marginal improvement and stood up to WMBC 63 1000kw analog overload.


I really don't think a preamp is what you need. What you need is a good, directional antenna to kill the multipath. Seriously.


----------



## reddice

What is the best small outdoor high VHF & UHF antenna that is best to combat multipath? No seperate antennas. If I am going to convince my grandmother without irritating her. She is in her 80s and just getting thus antenna stress her out. The thing is the RCA 751 gets most of the channels great except for those few problem channels.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18653387
> 
> 
> What is the best small outdoor high VHF & UHF antenna that is best to combat multipath? No seperate antennas. If I am going to convince my grandmother without irritating her. She is in her 80s and just getting thus antenna stress her out. The thing is the RCA 751 gets most of the channels great except for those few problem channels.



I liked the Clearstream C2. But for me it was the same indoors as the terk-50. But outside I hear it works much better.


Someone on here once told me the DB2 works great for UHF and if you are 10 to 15 miles from VHF. It works for VHF also. EVEN though it is not designed to do so.


----------



## reddice

Can multipath be worse outdoors than indoors. I am asking because with the indoor terk channel 13 was fair reception but the signal strenght did not flutuate much. If it does why did the outdoor improve channels 2,4,7,41,47 & 68 greatly.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18653628
> 
> 
> Can multipath be worse outdoors than indoors. I am asking because with the indoor terk channel 13 was fair reception



have you tried said Terk antenna lately? you should try the Terk and the RCA the same day.... preferably within 30min of each other because anything (weather, pirate radios, the sun, etc) could skew the comparison. maybe the Terk used to work ok, a few months ago. PBS reception also changed in my home, so something is different now compared to months ago.


if the problem is multipath (it might be FM interference or weak transmission), another small antenna will not change anything. prepare yourself for disappointment. you should get that VHF antenna i posted before. it's cheap. i have a VHF/UHF Winegard HD-7694P mounted in a corner *inside* my kitchen). it's big and costed me some $50. i get everything well with it, except CW and PBS. for most ppl, these 2 channels are difficult....and getting another small antenna will likely be a waste of time for you.


if your grandma or uncle wont tolerate a big antenna, you are better off waiting for PBS to fix this prob some day -- if they can. i gave up on them after several indoor and outdoor antennas. i watch PBS online on http://video.pbs.org .


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18653628
> 
> 
> Can multipath be worse outdoors than indoors. I am asking because with the indoor terk channel 13 was fair reception but the signal strenght did not flutuate much. If it does why did the outdoor improve channels 2,4,7,41,47 & 68 greatly.



We have a different TERK. There are many TERKS We have the TER-50 Which is like the new Terk-55


----------



## reddice

Bravo nordloewelabs. Finally someone who understands how frustated getting 11 & 13 reliable. Maybe for some lucky folks who have a clear view of site it is fine but I know those two station reception reliablity sucks. Channel 7 on VHF comes in great so it is not the antenna. You kept my hope up.


----------



## LenL

Just seems strange to me that with channel 2.1 I'm now hitting 98% to 100% when about 5 days ago it was 70-80% and 7.1 which used to be 92-93% is now 73-74%.


It can't be the weather as we have had all kinds of weather the past 5 days from dry and sunny to wet and humid.


It can't be the trees as we have had leaves now for about 4 weeks.


Is it the OTA gods? Sun spots? Or work is being done at the ESB?


----------



## lman12

I need a recommendation for tv antenna installation and/or repair and I hope this is the right place to post. I live in Central New Jersey in a Townhouse. I have had an OTA digital antenna installed for the past 7 years. Until recently I have been able to pick up all digitial TV stations from Philly and New York City. Recently my RG-6 coax wire from the rooftop antenna to my pre amp became loosened and I lost the ability to receive the channels. The antenna is on the roof approximatley 30 feet up. I cannot get to it (I don't have a ladder nor am I handy).


I have been trying to find a tv installer or repair company in central NJ (around the New Brunswick, North Brunswick, Somerset, Piscataway, Bridgewater areas) that will essentially come out to my place and JUST re-run the coax (I can buy another preamp). Once again the antenna is secured with great guide wires, the rotor works and all I really need is the wire from the antenna leads to the tv rerun.


Can anybody recommend anybody to help???


----------



## Trip in VA

Just letting everyone know that I'm going to be driving up to New Jersey with my mom and sister on Saturday and leaving on Wednesday. I expect to be fairly busy, but I'm going to get TSReader data as best I can.










- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18653851
> 
> 
> have you tried said Terk antenna lately? you should try the Terk and the RCA the same day.... preferably within 30min of each other because anything (weather, pirate radios, the sun, etc) could skew the comparison. maybe the Terk used to work ok, a few months ago. PBS reception also changed in my home, so something is different now compared to months ago.
> 
> 
> if the problem is multipath (it might be FM interference or weak transmission), another small antenna will not change anything. prepare yourself for disappointment. you should get that VHF antenna i posted before. it's cheap. i have a VHF/UHF Winegard HD-7694P mounted in a corner *inside* my kitchen). it's big and costed me some $50. i get everything well with it, except CW and PBS. for most ppl, these 2 channels are difficult....and getting another small antenna will likely be a waste of time for you.
> 
> 
> if your grandma or uncle wont tolerate a big antenna, you are better off waiting for PBS to fix this prob some day -- if they can. i gave up on them after several indoor and outdoor antennas. i watch PBS online on http://video.pbs.org .



Terk? Yikes! I think I bought maybe one antenna from that company and it was a DirecTV dish, only because that's what the satellite installer brought in his van.


I agree that WNET has a problem but I don't think that they're necessarily impossible to receive. If I can do it from ~50 miles out, so can you guys right in their back yard.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18653628
> 
> 
> Can multipath be worse outdoors than indoors. I am asking because with the indoor terk channel 13 was fair reception but the signal strenght did not flutuate much. If it does why did the outdoor improve channels 2,4,7,41,47 & 68 greatly.



The answer is yes, and it depends. But indoor reception is also very hard to predict which is why I won't go there.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lman12* /forum/post/18655856
> 
> 
> I need a recommendation for tv antenna installation and/or repair and I hope this is the right place to post. I live in Central New Jersey in a Townhouse. I have had an OTA digital antenna installed for the past 7 years. Until recently I have been able to pick up all digitial TV stations from Philly and New York City. Recently my RG-6 coax wire from the rooftop antenna to my pre amp became loosened and I lost the ability to receive the channels. The antenna is on the roof approximatley 30 feet up. I cannot get to it (I don't have a ladder nor am I handy).
> 
> 
> I have been trying to find a tv installer or repair company in central NJ (around the New Brunswick, North Brunswick, Somerset, Piscataway, Bridgewater areas) that will essentially come out to my place and JUST re-run the coax (I can buy another preamp). Once again the antenna is secured with great guide wires, the rotor works and all I really need is the wire from the antenna leads to the tv rerun.
> 
> 
> Can anybody recommend anybody to help???



ATB systems did 2 installs for me. I know he travels all over the state. I don't think he would do your job unless he was in the area or you paid him enough to make it worthwhile. Call him and negotiate 973-927-3648.


----------



## nycdigital09

have a nice trip, trip. had to do it.


----------



## ira_l




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lman12* /forum/post/18655856
> 
> 
> I have been trying to find a tv installer or repair company in central NJ (around the New Brunswick, North Brunswick, Somerset, Piscataway, Bridgewater areas) that will essentially come out to my place and JUST re-run the coax (I can buy another preamp). Once again the antenna is secured with great guide wires, the rotor works and all I really need is the wire from the antenna leads to the tv rerun.
> 
> 
> Can anybody recommend anybody to help???



Are you a Verizon (phone or cell phone) customer? Maybe they could do it for you. They sure were good with coax when I had them here to hook up FiOS TV for me!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18659103
> 
> 
> have a nice trip, trip. had to do it.



Hehe, in a few days, I'll be watching WASA-LD 64-2 along with everyone else!


... that is what you're watching up there, right?










- Trip


----------



## raj2001

Maybe if you get lucky you'll pick up the distorted and loud infomercials on WNJJ-LD too!


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18658143
> 
> 
> I agree that WNET has a problem but I don't think that they're necessarily impossible to receive. If I can do it from ~50 miles out, so can you guys right in their back yard.



maybe Trip can solve this PBS mystery....


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm not sure there's much of a mystery. Upper-VHF can be impacted by a lot of things. In a place like New York, the most likely are FM interference and electrical interference. For the former, you need a good trap. For the latter... well, not much you can do, in my experience. It doesn't have to be something of yours, it can be a neighbor as well.


Multipath is also a concern, but I would suspect those other things first. Especially the FM part.


- Trip


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18660796
> 
> 
> I'm not sure there's much of a mystery. Upper-VHF can be impacted by a lot of things. In a place like New York, the most likely are FM interference and electrical interference. For the former, you need a good trap. For the latter... well, not much you can do, in my experience. It doesn't have to be something of yours, it can be a neighbor as well.
> 
> 
> Multipath is also a concern, but I would suspect those other things first. Especially the FM part.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Why would upper VHF be effected by FM radio broadcasts. I might be able to understand channels 5 & 6 which lie right below the FM broadcast band (88.1-108 Mhz) but upper VHF (175-216 MHz) would only be effected by either receiver desense/overload or harmonics which is highly unlikely in NYC. As you said, other forms of interference or multipath are most likely the cause of his reception problems.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18661238
> 
> 
> Why would upper VHF be effected by FM radio broadcasts. I might be able to understand channels 5 & 6 which lie right below the FM broadcast band (88.1-108 Mhz) but upper VHF (175-216 MHz) would only be effected by either receiver desense/overload or harmonics which is highly unlikely in NYC. As you said, other forms of interference or multipath are most likely the cause of his reception problems.



2nd order harmonics and sum/difference products land in the VHF 7-13 band. DTV tuners, it seems, don't include internal FM filters.


See http://tvtechnology.com/article/82716 , http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/88282 , & http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/93086 


Many FM broadcasts at 50-100 kW are more powerful than the high-VHF signals their harmonics are competing with.


----------



## Trip in VA

As ProjectSHO points out, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that mixing and second harmonics are definite problems with upper-VHF reception. I've heard too many first-hand reports of FM traps causing instant improvement in upper-VHF reception to discount it. KOPB Portland OR recently filed with the FCC seeking to increase its power and cited problems with FM as one of its larger reception issues.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

Just a bit of personal experience here -


As far as interference goes from FM stations, I would say that I doubt it. I lived in Manhattan and Queens from 2000-2006 and I used to operate 2 meter and 70cm ham radio (144-148MHz, 430-450MHz).


Most of the interference I got seemed as though it was coming from cell towers and paging, not broadcasters. However, I was able to receive 50 watt and 13 watt FM repeaters just fine, full quieting.


Brooklyn seemed to be a notable exception, but those parts of Brooklyn were basically surrounded by tall buildings. Brooklyn seemed to be basically in a virtual RF hole, and I suspect it has more to do with the structures blocking signals rather than FM interference. This was especially true along Atlantic Ave and even all the way down to downtown bklyn/brooklyn heights. There were quite a few taller buildings there, as well as the large metal bridges close by.


Thirteen is operating at a bit more power than most ham repeaters I would say, so it should overcome most of the interference. So what you're left with is the multipath.


Again, this is based on personal experience (anecdotal) and nothing else.


----------



## raj2001

Now I will say that the other side of the coin could be true but some of the possible stations that have a 2nd harmonic in channel 13 aren't all that strong. And in order for the FM trap to work the harmonics have had to be generated either within his receiver or somewhere after where the trap would be placed. Makes sense?


Most NYC FM stations are broadcasting at less than 10kW ERP. MOst are around 5-6kW ERP. That's even less than WNET 13 is transmitting. The most probable one that would cause interference to 13 would be WLTW 106.7 but they are a lowly 6kW ERP.


In any case though an FM trap is cheap to try. I would even get the HLSJ/UVSJ combo and try that.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm glad nobody's on channel 7 in my area. My strongest FM is WRVL 88.3C1 at 50 kW at a distance of 36 miles according to FM Fool. My antenna is aimed basically right at it since it's on the path to Roanoke. On my spectrum analyzer, there's a nice spike 10 dB higher than the noise floor at 176.6 MHz.


- Trip


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18661808
> 
> 
> As ProjectSHO points out, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that mixing and second harmonics are definite problems with upper-VHF reception. I've heard too many first-hand reports of FM traps causing instant improvement in upper-VHF reception to discount it. KOPB Portland OR recently filed with the FCC seeking to increase its power and cited problems with FM as one of its larger reception issues.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well my fm trap should come in a couple of days but at this point I am not expecting miricles. Also channel 11 is comming in great and 13 is watchable but it won't last for me and I'll be the first to complain.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18664894
> 
> 
> Well my fm trap should come in a couple of days but at this point I am not expecting miricles. Also channel 11 is comming in great and 13 is watchable but it won't last for me and I'll be the first to complain.



Hope it works for ya


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Well my fm trap should come in a couple of days but at this point I am not expecting miricles. Also channel 11 is comming in great and 13 is watchable but it won't last for me and I'll be the first to complain.



__________________



red dice, one thing we forgot to ask you, how long is the cable from antenna to your set, are you using rg6, how many times have you split the connection, this can be reason for your weak signal.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18664894
> 
> 
> Well my fm trap should come in a couple of days but at this point I am not expecting miricles. Also channel 11 is comming in great and 13 is watchable but it won't last for me and I'll be the first to complain.



Something I noticed yesterday, I was watching 13 yesterday about 12:30 PM and the picture started breaking up. Normally its at 70% SS. It did this for a minute or 2, then went back to normal. The only thing I noticed was there were landscapers ouside on my block. Perhaps the leafblowers were causing some inteference?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18664894
> 
> 
> Well my fm trap should come in a couple of days but at this point I am not expecting miricles.



You bought that Radio Shack FM trap, even after what I wrote about how it won't do anything for you in the lower end of the FM band, where your local pirate radio station is most likely causing interference? You'll be lucky if that trap does anything at all. You should have gone with the hi/low splitter/joiner that I recommended.



> Quote:
> I'll be the first to complain.



We know!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18666874
> 
> 
> Something I noticed yesterday, I was watching 13 yesterday about 12:30 PM and the picture started breaking up. Normally its at 70% SS. It did this for a minute or 2, then went back to normal. The only thing I noticed was there were landscapers ouside on my block. Perhaps the leafblowers were causing some inteference?



On a ham radio forum I visit someone said that back in the old days they had to investigate a problem with sparklies on a certain cable channel, which was obtained at the headend via C-Band satellite. They spent a while troubleshooting the problem because every time they went there the noise would stop.


They then discovered that one of the people living nearby had an old lawn mower that they'd use and when the cable guys came to check out the problem he'd stop and then start back when they left.


So yes, it is possible that lawn mowers could be causing interference, especially if it is old equipment. However I highly doubt it if they are professional landscapers using well maintained/newer equipment.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18667909
> 
> 
> On a ham radio forum I visit someone said that back in the old days they had to investigate a problem with sparklies on a certain cable channel, which was obtained at the headend via C-Band satellite.



Ohhhh.... I want "sparklies" on my channels!


----------



## reddice

Got the fm trap. To early to tell but 13 is on the border getting it in the high 40s so they are broadcasting in less power. Will know more when they increase the power again. 11 is coming in the 60s. Channel 7 is in the 90s. Going to keep it connected since it did not make the reception worse.


No I have no pirates on 88 MHz. Just wbgo from newark.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18670310
> 
> 
> Got the fm trap. To early to tell but 13 is on the border getting it in the high 40s so they are broadcasting in less power. Will know more when they increase the power again. 11 is coming in the 60s. Channel 7 is in the 90s. Going to keep it connected since it did not make the reception worse.
> 
> 
> No I have no pirates on 88 MHz. Just wbgo from newark.



"To early to tell but 13 is on the border getting it in the high 40s so they are broadcasting in less power."


No they are not!!!!!


When will you finally concede to the fact that it's your problem and not the station's!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18670357
> 
> 
> "To early to tell but 13 is on the border getting it in the high 40s so they are broadcasting in less power."
> 
> 
> No they are not!!!!!
> 
> 
> When will you finally concede to the fact that it's your problem and not the station's!



Yes they are. I get it good then it gets worse and worse until I lose it completely like I did just now. They keep screwing with the power wait you live in Manhattan now I understand. They share the same antenna mask yet 7 comes in perfect and 13 makes ne want to take a hammer to my roof antenna. Most unreliable peace of crap reception ever.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18670310
> 
> 
> Got the fm trap. To early to tell but 13 is on the border getting it in the high 40s so they are broadcasting in less power. Will know more when they increase the power again. 11 is coming in the 60s. Channel 7 is in the 90s. Going to keep it connected since it did not make the reception worse.
> 
> 
> No I have no pirates on 88 MHz. Just wbgo from newark.



You aren't receiving WNET with a signal in the 40's due to harmonic intereference and I sincerely doubt that NY FM's are shooting out high levels of 2nd harmonic inteference or any serious spurs. NY FM's are very well engineered and I'm more likely to believe that a faulty repeater/transmitter in the commercial VHF 2 way band is causing your problems. You'll only be able to confirm that with a spectrum analyzer.


I live about 25 miles north of NYC and have an antenna in my attic which is supplying signal to 2 HDTV's, 1 analog TV, 1 digital converter, & 2 FM Tuners and on my bedroom TV channel 13 comes in 8 bars out of 10. WCBS is 10 out of 10. I'm using a Radio Shack antenna and a Radio Shack mast mounted Pre-amp. The output of the amp feeds my DirecTV passive switch which combines The 2, RG-6feeds from my DirecTV dish and the antenna coax.


----------



## reddice

I will keep the trap connected since it does not make 7 worse. At this point after many tries I was not expecting much. Can't wait until wtc1 is rebuilt. Don't know why they don't move some of these problem channels to 4 times square. I know it is not as high but it still is a stronger antenna with not much on it. Esb has too much on it already. I have a clear view of site to ground zero.


----------



## reddice

I see a patern. 11 is getting weaker and 13 I can bairly peak. Gets worse by the hour. Except for 7 which stays in the 90s. Will someone explain to me how those three stations are on the same mask in the same location yet only 7 is constant and 11 & 13 reluabilty sucks bigtime?


----------



## reddice

Now 13 is in the green. Just a half hour ago I could bairly get it. What causes this?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18670999
> 
> 
> Now 13 is in the green. Just a half hour ago I could bairly get it. What causes this?



maybe the engineers from 13 read avsforum and increased power levels just for you reddice!!!!!


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18670691
> 
> 
> ... I'm more likely to believe that a faulty repeater/transmitter in the commercial VHF 2 way band is causing your problems.



This is another reason that I was advocating the use of a Hi/Low Splitter/Joiner instead of an FM trap. The FM trap will only attenuate a portion of the FM band - somewhere above about 90 Mhz on up through 108 Mhz - but will not reduce any of the signals below or above that range.


Since we in the NY metro area have absolutely no need to receive anything below channel 7 (below 174 Mhz), why not just lop off everything below VHF-High and eliminate any possibility of interference from FM stations, commercial two-way radio, emergency services, etc.? And the potential for this kind of interference will only get worse as the VHF-low band gets reallocated.


Once again, that splitter joiner is available here:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...gnal_Splitters 



> Quote:
> You'll only be able to confirm that with a spectrum analyzer.



Agreed. Without such measurements, these solutions are, at best, made on [educated] guesses. Even with objective measurements, it's tough to find intermittent sources of interference like two-way radio, lawn mowers, rogue RF engineers and space-alien neighbors calling the mother ship.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/18672489
> 
> 
> Since we in the NY metro area have absolutely no need to receive anything below channel 7 (below 174 Mhz),



Well I wouldn't say that exactly. If you're a fan of religious programming there are a couple of stations on low VHF. Also WPVI is on channel 6 and receivable in some parts of the NYC metro area. But of course in NYC proper it will be heavily interfered with by Pulse 87, the low power TV station masquerading as a radio station.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18672645
> 
> 
> Well I wouldn't say that exactly. If you're a fan of religious programming there are a couple of stations on low VHF. Also WPVI is on channel 6 and receivable in some parts of the NYC metro area. But of course in NYC proper it will be heavily interfered with by Pulse 87, the low power TV station masquerading as a radio station.



pulse 87 has been gone for some time. its some other station now.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18660796
> 
> 
> I'm not sure there's much of a mystery. Upper-VHF can be impacted by a lot of things. In a place like New York, the most likely are FM interference and electrical interference. For the former, you need a good trap. For the latter... well, not much you can do, in my experience. It doesn't have to be something of yours, it can be a neighbor as well.
> 
> 
> Multipath is also a concern, but I would suspect those other things first. Especially the FM part.
> 
> 
> - Trip



So I went to my aunts yesterday. She was getting HSN 39.5 with alot of plixleations. She likes to watch it and plus I am hoping the other 4 / 39 subs come with some new programing. So I moved antenna along the same wall. Knowing that if I switched the wall. I would lose channel 11.


As I moved the antenna toward the window a few inches at a time. Channel 39.5 got stronger and stronger. When I came close to the wall I lost Channel 11. So I moved it half way and now ALL stations come in good.


Funny how just 5 inches can make all the difference. Now 11 is back to normal and 39.5 is in the middle to high 70's.


This is why I always stated that OTA is more of a art form then a science.




PS Also only one analog channel comes in now. 42. Some Christian station.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18670310
> 
> 
> Got the fm trap. To early to tell but 13 is on the border getting it in the high 40s so they are broadcasting in less power. Will know more when they increase the power again. 11 is coming in the 60s. Channel 7 is in the 90s. Going to keep it connected since it did not make the reception worse.
> 
> 
> No I have no pirates on 88 MHz. Just wbgo from newark.



Just curious. Did you have the TV ON and one person move the antenna around to see if you can get all stations strong? Read what I wrote above. A few inches can make a difference.


I am assuming you tried different positions?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Now 13 is in the green. Just a half hour ago I could bairly get it. What causes this?



your answer is right in front of you, you couldnt get a lock earlier, but at night time you can! tv signals get stronger when sun goes down. the sun rays attenuate tv signals. thats why everyone doesnt complain everyday like you.. jk


----------



## Trip in VA

I made it here.


Out of curiosity, is WNJB-8's signal miserable, or is it just me? I had my spectrum analyzer hooked up on the road and managed to get a number of VHFs to at least appear, if not decode completely, but I never saw WNJB-8 even appear on the analyzer, and I got as close as the intersection of I-78 and I-287.


Decoded: WWPX-12, W07DP-7, WHTM-10, WBPH-9

Observed: WVPT-11, W08EE-8, WGAL-8

Neither: WNJB-8


I shut off the analyzer before getting close enough to hope to see New York's stations.


I hope to poke at the stations tonight or tomorrow.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18672862
> 
> 
> pulse 87 has been gone for some time. its some other station now.



Well you know what I mean.


Pulse 87 or whoever else using channel 6 as a radio station.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18673924
> 
> 
> I made it here.
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, is WNJB-8's signal miserable, or is it just me? I had my spectrum analyzer hooked up on the road and managed to get a number of VHFs to at least appear, if not decode completely, but I never saw WNJB-8 even appear on the analyzer, and I got as close as the intersection of I-78 and I-287.
> 
> 
> Decoded: WWPX-12, W07DP-7, WHTM-10, WBPH-9
> 
> Observed: WVPT-11, W08EE-8, WGAL-8
> 
> Neither: WNJB-8
> 
> 
> I shut off the analyzer before getting close enough to hope to see New York's stations.
> 
> 
> I hope to poke at the stations tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Unless things have changed in the past few weeks I'd say it's just you. I was able to get them from my front yard with the antenna (Winegard YA1713) about 5ft over my head. In fact last night they were coming in pretty strong, even with my antenna aimed at NYC and not directly at the WNJB transmitter.


Right now they're showing some cooking show (Colameco's food).


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18673906
> 
> 
> your answer is right in front of you, you couldnt get a lock earlier, but at night time you can! tv signals get stronger when sun goes down. the sun rays attenuate tv signals. thats why everyone doesnt complain everyday like you.. jk



Well yeah kinda. The sun heats up the atmosphere which messes with the signals in various ways, creating additional multipath mostly (which can cause fading). But I doubt that's what's happening in an urban environment such as reddice's.


----------



## reddice

Channel 13 is a lost cause. I am not buying any more crap to try to get this station. All day today it would come in fine then about 20 minutes later I would lose it completly. Now I can't get squat and channel 11 is also in the yellow which means soon I will lose that too. My antenna is fine it I'd just there reception sucks and I know because someone here said he us having problems too. Channel 7 is in the 90s as usually. If it was the antenna, high and position then 7 would be affected. The reason it is not because 7 is running in full power. Just move 11 & 13 to 4 times square.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18674072
> 
> 
> Channel 13 is a lost cause. I am not buying any more crap to try to get this station. All day today it would come in fine then about 20 minutes later I would lose it completly. Now I can't get squat and channel 11 is also in the yellow which means soon I will lose that too. My antenna is fine it I'd just there reception sucks and I know because someone here said he us having problems too. Channel 7 is in the 90s as usually. If it was the antenna, high and position then 7 would be affected. The reason it is not because 7 is running in full power. Just move 11 & 13 to 4 times square.



"Just move 11 & 13 to 4 times square."


Words fail me!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell;* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Just move 11 & 13 to 4 times square."
> 
> 
> Words fail me!



Epic fail now for me and many others here that don't admit it.


----------



## raj2001

*sigh*


Move out here, 50 miles out where you'll get the NYC stations better than right next to them.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/18672489
> 
> 
> This is another reason that I was advocating the use of a Hi/Low Splitter/Joiner instead of an FM trap. The FM trap will only attenuate a portion of the FM band - somewhere above about 90 Mhz on up through 108 Mhz - but will not reduce any of the signals below or above that range.
> 
> 
> Once again, that splitter joiner is available here:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...gnal_Splitters



I'll order this thing next week. let's see what happens.


----------



## raj2001

Wait a minute... are you guys sure the HLSJ will notch out FM? It seems it will only do this if you don't use the low band input.


The literature says:

http://www.nsccom.com/productpdfs/picomacom/c24.pdf 


Separates and isolates VHF low *(54-108 MHz)* from VHF high (175-216 MHz) signals for clean insertion into headend strip amplifier


54-108MHz includes FM.


So unless one of you has personal experience with this device, I'd say that the notion that it notches out FM is just pure speculation.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18673924
> 
> 
> I made it here.
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, is WNJB-8's signal miserable, or is it just me? I had my spectrum analyzer hooked up on the road and managed to get a number of VHFs to at least appear, if not decode completely, but I never saw WNJB-8 even appear on the analyzer, and I got as close as the intersection of I-78 and I-287.
> 
> 
> Decoded: WWPX-12, W07DP-7, WHTM-10, WBPH-9
> 
> Observed: WVPT-11, W08EE-8, WGAL-8
> 
> Neither: WNJB-8



I get WNJB good at 52 miles out, about 40% signal strength.


----------



## reddice

40% signal strength. My tv needs at least 45% it is on the red and even then it breaks up much at that strength. Could that be my problem that my tv tuner ain't that good. It is a Toshiba Regza 2008 model.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18674072
> 
> 
> Channel 13 is a lost cause. I am not buying any more crap to try to get this station.



Does this mean you'll finally stop complaining every day about it?


----------



## reddice

I will try hard to complain less.


----------



## keyboard21

Well 39 .1 .2 .3 .4 All showed a spanish station for a little while. Sop it looked like a test. Now there is a still picture. So the guy on here who said 39 will be spanish was correct. But the subs .2 .3 .4 we will have to see. HSN is still 39.5


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18675003
> 
> 
> Well 39 .1 .2 .3 .4 All showed a spanish station for a little while. Sop it looked like a test. Now there is a still picture. So the guy on here who said 39 will be spanish was correct. But the subs .2 .3 .4 we will have to see. HSN is still 39.5



Would it kill them to tell us what they plan on airing??


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18675284
> 
> 
> Would it kill them to tell us what they plan on airing??



Well all I can tell you . Is that my aunt said it was some type of music show(Spanish) on all subs except 39.5 (HSN)


Then it went to a picture. So it looked like a full test of each sub to make sure it worked. They used the same program for the test on all subs.


I hope that 39.1 to 39.4 are not ALL spanish stations. Seems that THIS TV could afford them. IF HSN can afford them.


----------



## dvdchance

Is WNJB broadcasting from NYC or are they still in NJ? I thought they moved to Times Square late last year? I ran a TVFool for my location and it showed their direction from me (zip 07008) to be opposite NYC stations.


----------



## SnellKrell

Still in N.J.


The station had planned to move to 4TS this past October, but canceled.


Big, big money problems throughout the state!


----------



## mikepier

WNJN is basically a mirror of WNJB. It's actually closer to me, 38 miles, than WNJB at 52 miles.


----------



## Trip in VA

This TV would much rather be on a station that at least has a chance at full market coverage. I can't see them wanting to be on something like WNYN-LD 39.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18675667
> 
> 
> Still in N.J.
> 
> 
> The station had planned to move to 4TS this past October, but canceled.
> 
> 
> Big, big money problems throughout the state!



There is also a growing sentiment in this state about identity. I don't really care myself but remember when they threatened to move WWOR out of NJ? Senator Lautenberg made a big fuss about it.


The economy is bringing this to light as well, especially when it comes to mass transit spending.


----------



## SnellKrell

The plan was to just move the transmitting facility, not the station itself.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18676142
> 
> 
> The plan was to just move the transmitting facility, not the station itself.



Yeah I hear ya, but it's symbolic I think. Think of it, with WNJB gone there would be no full power VHF stations transmitting out of NJ. AT&T recently moved golden boy out of this state too. Most people don't really notice or care but quite a few do!


----------



## reddice

I wish wnjb would have moved to 4ts. I get the stations off 4ts good. By the way what stations radio & tv broadcast off of there? Seems like a waste that they got a new powerfully antenna and it is not being used much.


----------



## Trip in VA

I think WNYE, WFUT, and WASA-LD are up there. WFUT has a permit to move to ESB.


I know WNYE and WASA-LD are up there, because their signals were the last ones to show up as I was coming into the area yesterday. I didn't look for WFUT.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18676895
> 
> 
> I think WNYE, WFUT, and WASA-LD are up there. WFUT has a permit to move to ESB.
> 
> 
> I know WNYE and WASA-LD are up there, because their signals were the last ones to show up as I was coming into the area yesterday. I didn't look for WFUT.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Where is channel 39.1 .2 .3 .4 .5 located? NYC? What building?


----------



## Trip in VA

WNYN-LD is on "One Court Square" according to Google Maps. Not sure what that is.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe it's the CitiGroup/Bank building in Queens.


----------



## reddice

WFUT comes in great for me which explains why. WASA I could not get with the indoor Terk. It comes in okay now.


----------



## Trip in VA

My grandparents apparently have a VHF antenna in the attic. Before 9/11, they didn't have cable, but now they do. Anyway, I'm just here with my sister, so I took the chance to hook it up go my analyzer. It's very obviously a VHF antenna because the UHF was pretty badly attenuated. I didn't waste my time trying to get anything on UHF.


I think the insulation in the roof has some kind of metal lining, so I'm amazed it ever worked at all.


Couldn't get WNET-13, WPIX-11 decoded broken up, WABC-7 decoded cleanly with lots of signal. Amusingly, WKOB-LP 2 was also decoded. Borderline, but got a clean decode on it, and so I got a capture for RabbitEars. It's capture #1600.










- Trip


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA;* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Couldn't get WNET-13, WPIX-11 decoded broken up, WABC-7 decoded cleanly with lots of signal. Amusingly, WKOB-LP 2 was also decoded. Borderline, but got a clean decode on it, and so I got a capture for RabbitEars. It's capture #1600.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



See that is what I am trying to say. Channel 7 is running nice and strong with full power so noise and multipath is minimal. 11 & 13 just has craphole reception. Maybe if you are further away it is not as bad.


You did not say how far away you from the esb.


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=27 


When I use my VHF bowtie, WNET and WPIX look decent on the analyzer, not too much weaker than WABC who, of course, is running a bit more power. Looking at what's coming off the attic antenna, the problem with 13 is multipath, rather than signal.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

*sigh*


I guess no one believes me. This is what I get from where I am:



























As for WKOB-LP, they are receivable here believe it or not but I cannot get them to decode. To be fair I don't have a low band antenna which may be the reason. I am going to put up one, but probably not aimed at NYC. I'll probably aim it at philly to get WPVI.


----------



## reddice

Then it must the crappy tuner mt Tosiba tv uses. As I said anything below 45% and it breaks up bad. 50s is bad too because it does not last and drops in the 40s and breaks up bad.


----------



## raj2001

The last one is a screencap from my Apex DT250. I made that with a noisy antennacraft 10G212 preamp. With the CM7777 and now Research Comms preamp it is much, much, MUCH better.


In fact even w/o the preamp I can get thirteen from my front yard, yagi 5ft over my head on a pole. And the YA1713 gets poor marks for its ch13 performance from ken nist, so imagine if I used a really good ch13 antenna how it would be!


----------



## raj2001

Whoa... What the FOX?


All weekend WNYW was way down in signal strength and suddenly literally 5 minutes ago (I mean like real suddenly) it shot up to 80s and 90s from 60s and 70s. I don't know if it's tropo because nothing else seemed to rise up so fast...


I have a feeling it may be these leafy trees blowing around. I really do need to get my antenna higher.


----------



## Trip in VA

I hooked up my bowtie and my new KT200G amp and tried actually decoding all the signals. I can't seem to get WNET to come in clean, but it's not a signal issue. It's actually stronger here than WPIX and WABC (which, amusingly, is the weakest of the three). It's not multipath that I can tell, it looks like electrical interference. There's something at 217.625 MHz but I don't think that's the cause; there's a LOT of random noise spikes in upper-VHF, that get worse as you go higher up the band.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18677792
> 
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> 
> I guess no one believes me. This is what I get from where I am:



Didn't realize that WNET only allocates 10 mbps for a 1080i signal!


----------



## Trip in VA

It's variable bitrate. At that moment in time, it was averaging out to 10.8 Mbps. It varies from 1 to 15.5 Mbps.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18678049
> 
> 
> Didn't realize that WNET only allocates 10 mbps for a 1080i signal!



Like Trip said it varies. Wanna see a shocker? This evening I saw WABC-DT and LivWell almost equal. Right now LW is 6Mbps and ABC is 10.5Mbps.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Opinions expressed are solely my own, and not that of my employers, its parent company, affiliates and subsidiaries.



wtf ryan you work for fcc ? lol


----------



## raj2001

That would have been cool back when the FCC had more engineers than now (at least more engineers who know what they're doing.)


But no, I don't work for them and I actually enjoy where I work...hence the disclaimer...


----------



## nordloewelabs

my converter box is the Channel Master CM-7000. Isn't that a good one with sensitive tuner? All I know is that PBS used to look better. I used to be able to get it at 40% with a home-made folded dipole. Nowadays, with a big Winegard, I get it at the same 40%.


raj, I never doubted you.


what puzzles me is the decrease in reception quality since ABC boosted their signal. coincidence or not, that was the dividing waters. that doesn't bother me anyway, because the shows I like are streamed online on their site.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18678057
> 
> 
> It's variable bitrate. At that moment in time, it was averaging out to 10.8 Mbps. It varies from 1 to 15.5 Mbps.
> 
> 
> - Trip




they also allocate some bandwith to data and/or mobile video (not viewable by dtv boxes or tv's.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18678551
> 
> 
> my converter box is the Channel Master CM-7000. Isn't that a good one with sensitive tuner? All I know is that PBS used to look better. I used to be able to get it at 40% with a home-made folded dipole. Nowadays, with a big Winegard, I get it at the same 40%.
> 
> 
> raj, I never doubted you.
> 
> 
> what puzzles me is the decrease in reception quality since ABC boosted their signal. coincidence or not, that was the dividing waters. that doesn't bother me anyway, because the shows I like are streamed online on their site.



CM is as good or even better then. DTVpal, Zenith, RCA


One of the most sensitive ones


----------



## Trip in VA

WNET hasn't lit up Mobile DTV to my knowledge.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> CM is as good or even better then. DTVpal, Zenith, RCA
> 
> 
> One of the most sensitive ones



what are you kiddin me, zenith 901 is considered the best cbe i admit it doesnt have lots features is pretty strait forward, but picture quality, sensitivity, is unmatched it has lg tuner which are considered tops imho


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18674296
> 
> 
> Wait a minute... are you guys sure the HLSJ will notch out FM? It seems it will only do this if you don't use the low band input.
> 
> 
> The literature says:
> 
> http://www.nsccom.com/productpdfs/picomacom/c24.pdf
> 
> 
> Separates and isolates VHF low *(54-108 MHz)* from VHF high (175-216 MHz) signals for clean insertion into headend strip amplifier
> 
> 
> 54-108MHz includes FM.
> 
> 
> So unless one of you has personal experience with this device, I'd say that the notion that it notches out FM is just pure speculation.



Yes, I do have personal experience with this product. See my post from 05-18-10, 01:42 AM. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post18649312 


Additionally, I should clarify how I have this hooked up. I have my VHF-Hi/UHF antenna hooked up to the "line" connection. I have the "low" side capped off with a terminator. And I have the "high" side feeding my preamplifier.


I don't know exactly what frequency the crossover is set at, but it's clearly below 170 Mhz and above 108 Mhz. So it's not merely "notching out" the FM band, but it's dropping FM and everything below it by far more than any of the FM traps that we've discussed.


----------



## raj2001

That's what I thought, that the low band portion wasn't being used.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18678173
> 
> 
> Like Trip said it varies. Wanna see a shocker? This evening I saw WABC-DT and LivWell almost equal. Right now LW is 6Mbps and ABC is 10.5Mbps.



LIVwell has much better programing then ABC.










They should get better signal


lol


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18678173
> 
> 
> Like Trip said it varies. Wanna see a shocker? This evening I saw WABC-DT and LivWell almost equal. Right now LW is 6Mbps and ABC is 10.5Mbps.



No shocker here. I mentioned this last year, either in this thread or the ABC O&Os destroy picture quality with LiveWell subchannel thread.


----------



## reddice

Thought dish today added 13 in hd since there was no program data but no it still is the center cut downconverted channel. Rather try to watch the unreliable ota station than a centercut downconverted crud.


Also I watch the lost final and it was sharp so the bandwith is there. I am peaking 7 at 100%.


----------



## bhoublon

Has anyone seen this (Sunday 23 in the real estate part) ????

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/re...23posting.html


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bhoublon* /forum/post/18683472
> 
> 
> Has anyone seen this (Sunday 23 in the real estate part) ????
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/re...23posting.html



Again those people are lazy. Selling house? Take down antenna. That simple.


Too dangerous? Hire a handyman.
http://www.handyman.com/ 



Few people even clean or stage their house before selling.


----------



## reddice

On my neighboors roofs there are old roof antennas. They have them high on a pole. Should have done that but my uncle does not have the patience to install something more complex.


----------



## bhoublon

The article says "analog" antenna = hillbilly (water powered saw mill), neglected houses, too cheap to get cable.

Since cable has been around for several decades there is no need to have such a horror on the roof...."


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18683623
> 
> 
> On my neighboors roofs there are old roof antennas. They have them high on a pole. Should have done that but my uncle does not have the patience to install something more complex.



Get a handyman. I posted above. Also I am sure there are PRO antenna installers.


Maybe pay TRIP VA to do it. Seems he got all the equipment. lol


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bhoublon* /forum/post/18683472
> 
> 
> Has anyone seen this (Sunday 23 in the real estate part) ????
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/re...23posting.html



It's ashamed some people who don't know better think these antennas are ugly on a house. I think they are great. If I could afford a mansion, I would still put an antenna on the roof.


Also didn't know about the risks of damaging bricks on the chimney. I thought once the straps are installed right, nothing could really damage them. I have mine on a chimney, so far have not seen any issues. Then again I have a Radio Shack VU-75, a fairly small antenna. I'm sure a bigger antenna would increase the chances of bricks getting loose.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18683531
> 
> 
> Again those people are lazy. Selling house? Take down antenna. That simple.
> 
> 
> Too dangerous? Hire a handyman.
> http://www.handyman.com/
> 
> 
> 
> Few people even clean or stage their house before selling.



I love this part:



> Quote:
> EVEN though all television signals went digital last year and cable has been around for decades, old-fashioned TV antennas can still be found atop many houses and apartment buildings in the New York region.



Let me try my own:



> Quote:
> EVEN though newspaper readership has been dropping and the internet has been around for decades, old fashioned printed newspapers can still be found being sold at newsstands in the New York region.


----------



## reddice

My aunt in pa refuses to get dsl Internet. That us why I hate going up there no Internet, no tv even sd. They have two sd tv but I don't have one to watch. All I have is that horrible XM radio which use to be good until Sirius ruined it. She still writes letters and mails them. It's the few like her who still read newspapers and writes letters.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18683946
> 
> 
> It's ashamed some people who don't know better think these antennas are ugly on a house. I think they are great. If I could afford a mansion, I would still put an antenna on the roof.
> 
> 
> Also didn't know about the risks of damaging bricks on the chimney. I thought once the straps are installed right, nothing could really damage them. I have mine on a chimney, so far have not seen any issues. Then again I have a Radio Shack VU-75, a fairly small antenna. I'm sure a bigger antenna would increase the chances of bricks getting loose.



I would personally never install an antenna on a chimney. Not because you may damage it and chimneys are expensive but because of all the smoke and soot that will just encourage corrosion and just all of that black gunk on your antenna. I burn wood in my wood stove all throughout the winter. No thanks!


----------



## nycdigital09

takin a look at dxinfocenter website 2nite i see the regional map showing a strong tropo for days, im not seein any channel enhancement yet, I'm not sold on that forecasting tropo is possible. weather changes can happen at any course, and time. from my experiences dxing usually happens hours before there is precipitation (rain) or when it heats up, there is humidity in the air. http://dxinfocenter.com


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18683623
> 
> 
> On my neighboors roofs there are old roof antennas. They have them high on a pole. Should have done that but my uncle does not have the patience to install something more complex.



We've been telling you this over and over again.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18684529
> 
> 
> takin a look at dxinfocenter website 2nite i see the regional map showing a strong tropo for days, im not seein any channel enhancement yet, I'm not sold on that forecasting tropo is possible. weather changes can happen at any course, and time. from my experiences dxing usually happens hours before there is precipitation (rain) or when it heats up, there is humidity in the air. http://dxinfocenter.com



I have checked this website from time to time and NEVER found the data meaningful for my reception whether I'm having problems or great reception.


Perhaps it is useful for some but it has no relevance for TV at my house.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18684411
> 
> 
> I would personally never install an antenna on a chimney. Not because you may damage it and chimneys are expensive but because of all the smoke and soot that will just encourage corrosion and just all of that black gunk on your antenna. I burn wood in my wood stove all throughout the winter. No thanks!



Fortunately I have gas heating, so no issues here.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18684529
> 
> 
> takin a look at dxinfocenter website 2nite i see the regional map showing a strong tropo for days, im not seein any channel enhancement yet, I'm not sold on that forecasting tropo is possible. weather changes can happen at any course, and time. from my experiences dxing usually happens hours before there is precipitation (rain) or when it heats up, there is humidity in the air. http://dxinfocenter.com



I'll give it a try tonite. My first time experimenting with tropo. So if I'm on Long Island, and my antenna is pointed west towards ESB, does that mean I shoud pick up stations further west? Or is tropo non-directional? (meaning you can pick up stations North and East even if antenna is pointed West).


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18685155
> 
> 
> I'll give it a try tonite. My first time experimenting with tropo. So if I'm on Long Island, and my antenna is pointed west towards ESB, does that mean I shoud pick up stations further west? Or is tropo non-directional? (meaning you can pick up stations North and East even if antenna is pointed West).



Tropo can be non directional if the ducting is happening close to you. My antennas are fixed on NYC but during a good opening I can get stations West (Scranton, Wilkes-Barre PA, Binghamton NY) South (Trenton NJ) and Southwest of me (Philly).


Of course you may get better results if the antenna is aimed in the correct direction but it does not have to be.


----------



## jzareski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18678630
> 
> 
> WNET hasn't lit up Mobile DTV to my knowledge.
> 
> 
> - Trip



raj2001's program listing for WNET doesn't show any.


The program 101 and program 102 appear to be PBS National Datacast information for Update Logic, Inc.


Curious for those that receive WNET OTA, is this the order?

WNET 13-1 WNET-HD

WNET 13-2 Kids

WNET 13-3 V-ME


Does it change during the evening? Just HD at night?


Question: Does TSReader provide a C/N ratio?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jzareski* /forum/post/18685186
> 
> 
> raj2001's program listing for WNET doesn't show any.
> 
> 
> The program 101 and program 102 appear to be PBS National Datacast information for Update Logic, Inc.
> 
> 
> Curious for those that receive WNET OTA, is this the order?
> 
> WNET 13-1 WNET-HD
> 
> WNET 13-2 Kids
> 
> WNET 13-3 V-ME
> 
> 
> Does it change during the evening? Just HD at night?
> 
> 
> Question: Does TSReader provide a C/N ratio?



Yes, that's the correct order.


13.1 will transmit HD when the programming calls for it - not relegated just to the evenings.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18685131
> 
> 
> Fortunately I have gas heating, so no issues here.



I erected these two masts on my chimney in about 1987. The left mast with multiple antennas is aimed at Chicago, 75 miles away. The right mast has one UHF antenna for South Bend plus a scanner antenna at top. The chimney was for my fireplace and gas furnace and gas water heater, although the furnace was diverted when replaced with a high efficiency. (Note snow accumulation on antenna elements and preamps mounted at base of masts.)


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jzareski* /forum/post/18685186
> 
> 
> 
> Question: Does TSReader provide a C/N ratio?



I am using the free version and a cheap tuner stick (pinnacle) so I doubt it.


----------



## Trip in VA

For those waiting for This TV: http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/s...46&newsLang=en 


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jzareski* /forum/post/18685186
> 
> 
> Question: Does TSReader provide a C/N ratio?



It provides whatever the tuner provides. My newest tuner gives a signal strength in 0-100 and signal quality in 0-100, and so both show up in TSReader. I've seen captures from tuners which provide a C/N number and it shows that, I think.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

Our chimney's are walled in so they are not in use. We have two dish 500s on one. A Eastern Arc dish 1000.4 on another one & my RCA 751 antenna on another one. All inscribe walled chilmney's.


----------



## nyc2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18686397
> 
> 
> Our chimney's are walled in so they are not in use. We have two dish 500s on one. A Eastern Arc dish 1000.4 on another one & my RCA 751 antenna on another one. All inscribe walled chilmney's.



can you post some pictures of those?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18685628
> 
> 
> For those waiting for This TV: http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/s...46&newsLang=en
> 
> 
> - Trip



So am I understanding what this means?


MGM Signs Long-Term Affiliation Agreement _*for THIS TV With Tribune Broadcasting, Including WPIX New York


THIS TV will pick up Tribune stations as new affiliates in New York, Miami, St. Louis, San Diego and Grand Rapids. At the same time, THIS TV has renewed its existing affiliation agreements with Tribune stations in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., Denver, Indianapolis/Bloomington, Hartford and New Orleans.*_


So the way I understand this. Is that WIPX channel 11. Made a deal to carry This TV? So Channel 11 WPIX will put THIS TV on as a sub station?


It does not say when right? Any clue on when this will happen?


I did not know MGM owned THIS TV?


----------



## raj2001

The This TV website also lists NYC as coming soon.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18687161
> 
> 
> The This TV website also lists NYC as coming soon.



It has been that way for a long time. That is nothing NEW. No pun intended.


----------



## thnmnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thnmnt* /forum/post/18490176
> 
> 
> I use a TivoHD to tune in OTA. I get frequent pixelization on channel 13 - which is almost always 90%+
> 
> 
> I've been trying to troubleshoot this issue for awhile, does this sound like multipath? are there tivoHD / OTA users who have any tips?



I'm quoting myself since I actually solved this _completely_ and I thought it may help someone.


I'm using a roof-mounted antennas direct db2 in Brooklyn and was having terrible pixelization due to multi-path issues (I believe). I fixed this by raising the angle of my antenna by about 10-12 degrees. I now don't get any wild signal fluctuations and all channels come in strong even though I have a few tall buildings between me and the ESB.


tilt it up!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18687126
> 
> 
> 
> So the way I understand this. Is that WIPX channel 11. Made a deal to carry This TV? So Channel 11 WPIX will put THIS TV on as a sub station?



That's exactly what will happen. One day in the near future, you'll see reports in this forum that ThisTV is on 11.3 (assuming they don't move EstrellaTV to 11.3 and put ThisTV on 11.2.)


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18675341
> 
> 
> Well all I can tell you . Is that my aunt said it was some type of music show(Spanish) on all subs except 39.5 (HSN)
> 
> 
> Then it went to a picture. So it looked like a full test of each sub to make sure it worked. They used the same program for the test on all subs.
> 
> 
> I hope that 39.1 to 39.4 are not ALL spanish stations. Seems that THIS TV could afford them. IF HSN can afford them.



Hope they bring back LATV they at least has music videos


----------



## nycdigital09

like many of us here i'm hoping that thistv shows up in our tv lineup soon, if you want to know where is going to be available soon check here.. http://www.facebook.com/pages/ThisTv...v/134992562023


----------



## reddice

Just did a rescan and I am getting another Telefuturo station on rf 23 channel 67 from li. It must be tropo because I could not get it before. I deleted it since I got the same station stronger on rf 30 ch 68. Also 11 & 13 are stronger but 21 is weak. Also Telemundo is showing on ch 36 now. Weird.


----------



## Trip in VA

Just got back from visiting raj2001 a bit ago. All I have to say is that he's in a pretty nice place. Pretty rural and lots of reception!


Other than WNJJ-LD 41, I think the strongest signal up there was WNET-13. His WNYW problem appears to be multipath or something, as the top half of the signal had some nasty gouges.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

Nice seeing you Trip!


I too was amazed at what 44's problem is, but I am still puzzled as to why. I could think of a few possibilities, one of which is due to atmospheric heating (which used to happen with WCBS-DT 56) and the other is tropo bringing in other 44 stations.


I was also surprised that 13 was the strongest, especially given their low power and Ken Nist's modeling of the Winegard YA1713.


When I get the Philly antennas up and you're in the area you're more than welcome to give it a scan!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18689207
> 
> 
> Just did a rescan and I am getting another Telefuturo station on rf 23 channel 67 from li. It must be tropo because I could not get it before. I deleted it since I got the same station stronger on rf 30 ch 68. Also 11 & 13 are stronger but 21 is weak. Also Telemundo is showing on ch 36 now. Weird.



Did a re-scan about 5:30 this afternoon, saw nothing new. I'll try again before I go to bed.


----------



## raj2001

Lots of nice tropo tonight!


KYW, WCAU, WPHL and WYBE are coming in pretty strong here.


----------



## nycdigital09

no tropo here, actually my signal is getting weaker, ch 13 use to be like rock now is breakin up a few times. I'm startin to think that reddice might be right about the other tv stations 7, 11 having a stronger signal, also what happened to wnyc ch25 last night it was awol the signal bar was strong but no picture.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18689207
> 
> 
> Also Telemundo is showing on ch 36 now. Weird.



Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing this morning after a scan. Instead of 47.1, now its 36.3. If I manually punch in 47.1 , I get nothing.

Other than that, no tropo channels for me.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Also Telemundo is showing on ch 36 now. Weird



what happened to wnyc rf 24 ch 25 i love that station, has not been seen lately anybody knows whats up ?


----------



## scubadvr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18690262
> 
> 
> what happened to wnyc rf 24 ch 25 i love that station, has not been seen lately anybody knows whats up ?



Seconding this - I miss BBC News in the morning!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18690262
> 
> 
> what happened to wnyc rf 24 ch 25 i love that station, has not been seen lately anybody knows whats up ?



It's fine where I am.


----------



## AloEuro

As others have noted, ch. 47Telemundo seem to be permanently based on 36-3(or punch in 1), ch47 is vacated, the station still does not provide technical data for output/input, apparently they are still in process of transition, the PQ seems very good, signal locked at 100 level.


----------



## nycdigital09

hey ryan i saw your antenna tower on another site, that ham antenna what size is that thing ? all i could say is your neighbors must really love ya.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18691245
> 
> 
> hey ryan i saw your antenna tower on another site, that ham antenna what size is that thing ? all i could say is your neighbors must really love ya.



It's a SteppIR MonstIR. 4 elements, 70ft across for the three larger ones, 33ft across for the smaller fourth one.


It covers 40m-10m and 6m.


The tower is 70ft with a 21ft mast. 5ft is in the tower connected to a heavy duty rotator (Prosistel PST71D).


As for my neighbors, nobody has said anything bad to my face. Several people have said that it is pretty cool. My next door neighbor threw a fit the day it went up and she complained to the town but I got all permits etc so they can go pound sand. The reality is that we live in a rural area, it's my property and I am tired of my hobby being regulated out of existence.


But the thing is we have no HOA and the town ordinances exempt ham and "other residential users" from the antenna ordinance.


And since we have no HOA, PRB-1 also applies. The town's land use attorney certainly agrees.


I also pay 10 grand per year in property taxes (more than they do) so if they want the antenna gone, they are more than welcome to pay my asking price for the house and land and be willing to pay the taxes.


As for now, most people are accustomed to it.


I will tell you something as well - in my old country a house with ham antennas and a tower was viewed as a status symbol. Big C-Band BUD dishes were also viewed as a status symbol. That is because really only the big shots could afford such things over there. The rest of us poor hams had to make do with cheap wire antennas and people watched the one TV channel (later three, now nine or so) from an off air antenna.


To me antennas are beautiful. I love them. And while I do think that old rusty dilapidated antennas are an eyesore, a well designed and properly installed antenna is a thing of beauty.


----------



## raj2001

Here is the house from the street:


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18691744
> 
> 
> Here is the house from the street:



Are those two houses? Is one your neighbor? Sure they must love that lol.


----------



## nyc2010

that is a interplanetary spaceship communication antenna. its huge!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyc2010* /forum/post/18693132
> 
> 
> that is a interplanetary spaceship communication antenna. its huge!



I can not tell if that is a separate house or a garage or storage shed for the other house on the left?


It is bigger then the house lol


Now that is what I call dedication. Maybe he can pick up sputnik?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18692983
> 
> 
> Are those two houses? Is one your neighbor? Sure they must love that lol.



Nope. The building on the left is my house. The one on the right is a horse barn.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyc2010* /forum/post/18693132
> 
> 
> that is a interplanetary spaceship communication antenna. its huge!



Hehheh actually no! Here is the thing, the large antenna is for HF. The one that I use to talk to the ISS (yes, we do that!) is much much smaller, like your TV antenna. HF waves will not penetrate the upper layers of the Earth's atmosphere. Much smaller wavelengths are used for space to Earth comms.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18693609
> 
> 
> I can not tell if that is a separate house or a garage or storage shed for the other house on the left?
> 
> 
> It is bigger then the house lol
> 
> 
> Now that is what I call dedication. Maybe he can pick up sputnik?



WEll, considering that sputnik burned up in the atmosphere about 60 years ago, I would consider that quite a feat.







Stephen Hawking fan? LOL!


Actually I do communicate with orbiting satellites but I don't use that antenna. I use a small handheld antenna, and it is in fact smaller than your TV antenna!


What I want to do is get a big stack of antennas to bounce signals off the moon. I will probably have it further in the back to be out of sight from the street though.










If I am lucky I'll be able to pick up an old used C-Band dish and experiment with that too.


----------



## nycdigital09

Originally Posted by raj2001



> Quote:
> If I am lucky I'll be able to pick up an old used C-Band dish and experiment with that to



ryan, im very impressed with your tv rigs, i might be getting cm 4251 uhf parabolic from a neighbor he wants to get rid of it. ive read that tv dxers go bunkers for one of these.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18694483
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by raj2001
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ryan, im very impressed with your tv rigs, i might be getting cm 4251 uhf parabolic from a neighbor he wants to get rid of it. ive read that tv dxers go bunkers for one of these.



Dude, I envy you... that is my dream antenna.


Have you seen the tribute page? They said some guy had FOUR of them phased together. Mercy!


----------



## raj2001

Another guy had SIX of them phased together. That is just INSANE by any standard. I think that would be about almost 30dB gain on some channels.


----------



## reddice

Lost 67 don't care because the same thing is on 68. Also 25 is messed up. When I type in 25 it just goes to that stupid infommercial 64. When I type in 24 it goes to 24.1 with a strong signal but just a black screen.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18694148
> 
> 
> Nope. The building on the left is my house. The one on the right is a horse barn.



Nice how much land? Nice set up. The nearest house to you is?


What state is this in? You seem to be all by yourself with much land. Of course your Antenna setup would look funny in NYC. Would love to see it though lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18694769
> 
> 
> Lost 67 don't care because the same thing is on 68. Also 25 is messed up. When I type in 25 it just goes to that stupid infommercial 64. When I type in 24 it goes to 24.1 with a strong signal but just a black screen.



Yes my aunt confirms that 25 disappeared. Also 24 is blank but the channel is new.


She said she remembers seeing on 25 that they were switching to channel 24. So she feels they must be working on it.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18694861
> 
> 
> Nice how much land? Nice set up. The nearest house to you is?
> 
> 
> What state is this in? You seem to be all by yourself with much land. Of course your Antenna setup would look funny in NYC. Would love to see it though lol



I'm on 6 acres in NW New Jersey. Closest house is kinda close I would say about 300ft, but we have 5 acre zoning which means that all new houses must be on 5 acres or you have to request a variance (and have it approved at a public hearing).


The antenna would probably be too huge for the city proper but some places do have ham antennas. I think even TCI college in Manhattan has one.


----------



## raj2001

By the way it does look like 25 (24.1) is gone from OTA.


Cable still has it but apparently they have a direct fiber feed.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18694185
> 
> 
> Hehheh actually no! Here is the thing, the large antenna is for HF. The one that I use to talk to the ISS (yes, we do that!) is much much smaller, like your TV antenna. HF waves will not penetrate the upper layers of the Earth's atmosphere. Much smaller wavelengths are used for space to Earth comms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WEll, considering that sputnik burned up in the atmosphere about 60 years ago, I would consider that quite a feat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Hawking fan? LOL!
> 
> 
> Actually I do communicate with orbiting satellites but I don't use that antenna. I use a small handheld antenna, and it is in fact smaller than your TV antenna!
> 
> 
> What I want to do is get a big stack of antennas to bounce signals off the moon. I will probably have it further in the back to be out of sight from the street though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I am lucky I'll be able to pick up an old used C-Band dish and experiment with that too.



Get a laser and bounce that off the moons surface. The Mythbusters did that. On one of the moon landings they left a special prism. If you point the laser in that area you get a bounce back spike. The rest of the moon is much smaller spike. It is proof that man did in fact land on the moon.



Do you get many channels with your set up? How far are you from the signal source?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18694899
> 
> 
> Get a laser and bounce that off the moons surface. The Mythbusters did that. On one of the moon landings they left a special prism. If you point the laser in that area you get a bounce back spike. The rest of the moon is much smaller spike. It is proof that man did in fact land on the moon.



I'm talking about bouncing RF signals off the moon, 144MHz and above.




> Quote:
> Do you get many channels with your set up? How far are you from the signal source?



~49 miles from the ESB I get everything except WNJU which is on the same channel as an analog low power translator for NJN (W36AZ).


When Trip was looking at it yesterday we saw signals as far away as New Haven CT (WTNH) and WPVI in Philly.


----------



## raj2001

By the way, WNYE is on air, but they are sending 15Mbps of NULL packets and two smaller 2Mb streams of I don't know what. PID 0x0041 and 0x0031


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18694926
> 
> 
> By the way, WNYE is on air, but they are sending 15Mbps of NULL packets and two smaller 2Mb streams of I don't know what. PID 0x0041 and 0x0031



It sounds like they lost their PMT. Those are the video feeds, but if they're not being identified as such, it means the PMT is gone. I'll try to look at the signal in a little while; a bit occupied at the moment.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

Definitely looks that way. The streams are there but TSReader can't bring up anything about them.


----------



## nordloewelabs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18694870
> 
> 
> She said she remembers seeing on 25 that they were switching to channel 24. So she feels they must be working on it.




what's the reason for the change? So they are changing from RF-25 to RF-24? going Hi-Def too?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nordloewelabs* /forum/post/18695073
> 
> 
> what's the reason for the change? So they are changing from RF-25 to RF-24? going Hi-Def too?



They are already on RF 24.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18695084
> 
> 
> They are already on RF 24.



There is no Video or Audio though


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18695265
> 
> 
> There is no Video or Audio though



There is, but there is no PMT so your TV won't know which streams to decode.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18695314
> 
> 
> There is, but there is no PMT so your TV won't know which streams to decode.



We have dish pal and not showing video or audio. So what is PMT and will they fix it? I do not think anyone can get audio or video


----------



## raj2001

PMT = Program Map Table


They have to fix it otherwise most OTA people won't be able to view anything.


If you say you're not getting it on Dish that's probably because Dish is getting it OTA. Cable companies sometimes do not get local stations OTA, rather they get them from fiber feeds (and in some cases via satellite). The cable companies also share feeds among themselves (but usually not with satellite or telco providers) for backup and redundancy.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18695380
> 
> 
> PMT = Program Map Table
> 
> 
> They have to fix it otherwise most OTA people won't be able to view anything.
> 
> 
> If you say you're not getting it on Dish that's probably because Dish is getting it OTA. Cable companies sometimes do not get local stations OTA, rather they get them from fiber feeds (and in some cases via satellite). The cable companies also share feeds among themselves (but usually not with satellite or telco providers) for backup and redundancy.



The DISHPAL is a OTA BOX not Sat



Are you getting audio and Video on 24? OTA?


----------



## nycdigital09

Originally Posted by raj2001



> Quote:
> Another guy had SIX of them phased together. That is just INSANE by any standard. I think that would be about almost 30dB gain on some channels.
> 
> __________________



this guy has six triax 100 stack Attachment 176623


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18695405
> 
> 
> The DISHPAL is a OTA BOX not Sat



I know that. I wasn't sure if you were talking about the DTVPAL or an actual dish network box.




> Quote:
> Are you getting audio and Video on 24? OTA?



When last I checked no. But if you have a licensed version of TSReader (I don't) you can probably define manual channels and play the streams without the PMT.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18695411
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by raj2001
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this guy has six triax 100 stack Attachment 176623



Yeah I may go that route one day for DXing. Maybe a pair of XG91s first and work my way up.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18695947
> 
> 
> When last I checked no. But if you have a licensed version of TSReader (I don't) you can probably define manual channels and play the streams without the PMT.



I've seen it done before. I have a licensed version; if WNYE is still screwed up when I get back from visiting New York today, I'll check it out.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

I just bought 91xg antenna from amazon.com you wont believe what i paid for it. $29 Attachment 176632


----------



## reddice

Dish dropped wnye years ago. I know because I have dish. As for wnye ota on my signal meter it shows up in the high 70s but virtual channel number just says n/a. Maybe they moved to 24 because of wasa just like wnju moved to 36 also actually rf channels because of wlny because they rf channels conflict with the other station virtual channels.


----------



## nyc2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18694185
> 
> 
> Hehheh actually no! Here is the thing, the large antenna is for HF. The one that I use to talk to the ISS (yes, we do that!) is much much smaller, like your TV antenna. HF waves will not penetrate the upper layers of the Earth's atmosphere. Much smaller wavelengths are used for space to Earth comms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WEll, considering that sputnik burned up in the atmosphere about 60 years ago, I would consider that quite a feat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Hawking fan? LOL!
> 
> 
> Actually I do communicate with orbiting satellites but I don't use that antenna. I use a small handheld antenna, and it is in fact smaller than your TV antenna!
> 
> 
> What I want to do is get a big stack of antennas to bounce signals off the moon. I will probably have it further in the back to be out of sight from the street though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I am lucky I'll be able to pick up an old used C-Band dish and experiment with that too.



all i can say is wow, you can talk to ISS directly? do you work for NASA?


what kind of communication you do with satellites?


bouncing signals off moon, is it just for fun or there's actual use?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyc2010* /forum/post/18696657
> 
> 
> all i can say is wow, you can talk to ISS directly? do you work for NASA?



I have talked to the ISS as have many ham radio operators. You don't have to work for NASA to do so.

http://www.arrl.org/amateur-radio-on...-space-station 



> Quote:
> what kind of communication you do with satellites?



Mostly FM voice communications. These are low earth orbiting sats, not your geostationary sats that carry TV.


Some people even fly balloons up to almost the edge of space too.



> Quote:
> bouncing signals off moon, is it just for fun or there's actual use?



Mostly for fun and experimentation, not just with the signals themselves but the whole setup including the antennas and amplifiers (receive and transmit). It also allows you to experiment with sophisticated digital signal processing software. It's something I want to do.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18696581
> 
> 
> Dish dropped wnye years ago. I know because I have dish. As for wnye ota on my signal meter it shows up in the high 70s but virtual channel number just says n/a. Maybe they moved to 24 because of wasa just like wnju moved to 36 also actually rf channels because of wlny because they rf channels conflict with the other station virtual channels.



Nothing has moved.


----------



## nyc2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18696957
> 
> 
> I have talked to the ISS as have many ham radio operators. You don't have to work for NASA to do so.
> 
> http://www.arrl.org/amateur-radio-on...-space-station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly FM voice communications. These are low earth orbiting sats, not your geostationary sats that carry TV.
> 
> 
> Some people even fly balloons up to almost the edge of space too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly for fun and experimentation, not just with the signals themselves but the whole setup including the antennas and amplifiers (receive and transmit). It also allows you to experiment with sophisticated digital signal processing software. It's something I want to do.



you almost make me want to move far away from the city, where one can setup all these antennas and enjoy these things.


FM voice.....you are not talking about satellite phones, right? if not, then can you please enlighten me.


thanks


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyc2010* /forum/post/18697941
> 
> 
> you almost make me want to move far away from the city, where one can setup all these antennas and enjoy these things.
> 
> 
> FM voice.....you are not talking about satellite phones, right? if not, then can you please enlighten me.
> 
> 
> thanks



Well it's not really satellite phones but kinda the same concept.


You point an antenna up at the sky towards the satellite and with a handheld radio you can talk to other people in the footprint.


And you probably can do it in the city with a handheld radio and antenna if you have a clear view of the sky and software to predict the satellite passes.


----------



## Trip in VA

Just got back from meeting SnellKrell in New York.










WNYE is not broadcasting a PMT, confirmed. Here's a TSReader capture and a screencap (note the timestamp).

http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...mp/wnyebad.htm 
http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...mp/wnyebad.png 


- Trip


----------



## reddice

Now wnju is back on virtual 47. I had to do another scan to fix it and it is a pain in the neck because it keeps finding wkob even though it just breaks up. To wnju stop moving the virtual channel.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18698806
> 
> 
> Just got back from meeting SnellKrell in New York.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WNYE is not broadcasting a PMT, confirmed. Here's a TSReader capture and a screencap (note the timestamp).
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...mp/wnyebad.htm
> http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...mp/wnyebad.png
> 
> 
> - Trip



You know this REALLY ticks me off. You never visit me. Next time your in the area. Bring a pizza with everything on it, Hold the shrooms.


ty


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18699109
> 
> 
> Hold the shrooms.



I don't use drugs anyway, so no worries.










- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18699109
> 
> 
> You know this REALLY ticks me off. You never visit me. Next time your in the area. Bring a pizza with everything on it, Hold the shrooms.
> 
> 
> ty



We should all do a meetup sometime.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18698806
> 
> 
> Just got back from meeting SnellKrell in New York.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WNYE is not broadcasting a PMT, confirmed. Here's a TSReader capture and a screencap (note the timestamp).
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...mp/wnyebad.htm
> http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...mp/wnyebad.png
> 
> 
> - Trip



They still aren't today either... they must not have a lot of viewers OTA since they haven't fixed it yet!


If this keeps up I'll call 311 later today and tell them it's broken.


----------



## raj2001

I sent off an email to them telling them their OTA is broken.


A ham friend of mine worked there a few years ago. I wonder if he still does. If I get no response I'll email him and see if he knows anybody.


----------



## dvdchance

Using my PalDVR, I can get 25.2 sub but not 25.1.


Last night I was just curious about this so I tried these stations and was able to get them both. It took a while (maybe a minute or so) of blank screen then it would play the stations fine. No PSIP info though. With my PalDVR I've never gotten TVGOS for this station.


This morning I try and can only get 25.2, 25.1 waits on the blank screen for even longer then displays no service.


Could I have had info in my cache or some other memory on the unit that decoded the stations? I really never watch them at all.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes. Some rare receivers save that information rather than checking for it each time the station is tuned.


- Trip


----------



## nyc2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18697962
> 
> 
> Well it's not really satellite phones but kinda the same concept.
> 
> 
> You point an antenna up at the sky towards the satellite and with a handheld radio you can talk to other people in the footprint.
> 
> 
> And you probably can do it in the city with a handheld radio and antenna if you have a clear view of the sky and software to predict the satellite passes.



so you are using the satellite as a sort of mirror for reflecting the signal back to earth? its awesome!


----------



## AloEuro

I wonder what's going on. ch. 47-1 went on hiatus for day or two to 36-3, now they are back to 47-1, pretty as always.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyc2010* /forum/post/18701121
> 
> 
> so you are using the satellite as a sort of mirror for reflecting the signal back to earth? its awesome!



Not exactly but that's what it amounts to.


The satellites contain one or more repeaters (transponders) which receives on one frequency and transmits on another.


Many communications satellites operate that way including satellites that deliver TV programming.


But like I said, we also use the Earth's natural satellite - the moon - to reflect radio signals. No active electronics on the moon involved, but it requires a lot of power, large antennas, sensitive low noise receivers and now digital signal processing because the path loss to the moon and back is huge. They even used the big radio telescope in Puerto Rico (arecibo) the other day. I think it has something on the order of 60dBi of gain!


----------



## AloEuro

Could it be that 25/24ch. operates on some auxiliary Antena that most OTA recipients cannot get, including myself, and their main Antena rented to the damn This TV?

Gone is DW, 24France, RAJ-Italian league come 11June maybe from S.Africa, even bbc.

The other day and now ch.41-1.2 Univision had solid, locked at 40, steady stream no pixelation, beautiful. They had ads about Copa Mundo 2010 - I think they want to sell the Mexican qualification group matches

And 68-1.2 had 0-15 up and down fluctuation with loss of signal and pixelation, but today it is back to normal locked at 100, come june 11 hopefully they are going to be allright


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> They still aren't today either... they must not have a lot of viewers OTA since they haven't fixed it yet! Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post




ryan, nice tropo here last night, i picked up hartford stations. caught some of outer limits original black/white. from wtxx ch 20-2 on thistv. can't wait till put up the xg91.


----------



## nycdigital09

youre right ryan bout wnyc ch25 it comes ok on satellite, not ota.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18701414
> 
> 
> youre right ryan bout wnyc ch25 it comes ok on satellite, not ota.



The cable and sat providers have direct feeds if I am not mistaken.


----------



## reddice

Unless they go hd then I don't care if wnye comes back. The Spanish networks went hd and look great. I watch them sometimes because it looks so great.


----------



## LenL

I emailed them today about the reception issue and I received and immediate response that follows.


*We are still on the air but there is a digital data problem we are working on that impedes reception for some viewers and not for others.




We are working on the problem and hope to fix as soon as possible.




We apologize for the inconvenience.




Thanks.




Terence M. O'Driscoll


Director of Facilities and Planning


212.669.7040

[email protected] 




NYC Media


TV ▪ Radio ▪ Online

nyc.gov/media 

*


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18700519
> 
> 
> We should all do a meetup sometime.



Ya I like joking around with Trip. He is a real contributor to the board.


----------



## R.F. Burns

WPIX has been a problem for me for the past few days. All other stations, WNYE included are being received with their normal strong signals at my location (about 25 miles north of Manhattan). WPIX's signal isn't terribly weak but I'm getting dropouts and pixilized reception which makes the channel unviewable. I've tried different receivers and they are all experirencing the same problem. Anyone else having this probelm?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> WPIX has been a problem for me for the past few days, posted by R.F. Burns



agreed, seems that 11 & 13 need a powerboost. i c if i pull some strings


----------



## nycdigital09

i was at thistv website, i read some post from another nyc expected viewer. they asked the pd = program director about availability, he stated that thistv is definitely coming this year. but don't quote me, i remember retrotv was avaliable on ch43 bridgeport, then it fizzled out. :>(


----------



## AloEuro

There is school of thoughts, among other AVforum contributors, that Antena should not be hooked to TV/conv.box too tightly

Let say that you have to make 5-6 full circles screw to tight it, make only 1-2 and see what's happen, if there are problems with reception, it's worth to try.


----------



## reddice

I was on the computer yesterday and I was going to post pictures of my signal strenght. Long story short I ended up bricking my new Netgear WNR3500L. After much work I was able to unbrick it but it was 3 am by then so I could not take and post pics. Lession here is stick with the stock router firmware and not the cruddy dd-wrt which make my wireless weak especially on my iPod Touch.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro;* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is school of thoughts, among other AVforum contributors, that Antena should not be hooked to TV/conv.box too tightly
> 
> Let say that you have to make 5-6 full circles screw to tight it, make only 1-2 and see what's happen, if there are problems with reception, it's worth to try.



That's how my uncle ruined my first transformer. He used a wrench to tighten it. For the most I was not pleased at the hack job he did but he did do it when he did not have to.


----------



## AloEuro

'' Nope. The building on the left is my house. The one on the right is a horse barn."

You are really humanist, raj- to show TV to your horses so they can have good times too, you know if you had Tv for cows they could produce more milk


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18702379
> 
> 
> WPIX has been a problem for me for the past few days.



I've been seeing ups and downs in power levels affecting all stations at one time or another over the past couple of weeks. The VHF group of 7, 11 and 13 usually rise and fall together. 7 is always the strongest, 13 next and 11 the weakest of the group at all times and therefore likely to be the first lost.


My biggest problem however is 9.1, which until the past couple of weeks had been reliable. I've also noticed reduced power levels on 41 and 47, though I don't watch these channels.


I would guess that following the end of the TV season and May ratings period there has been a flurry of work going on that requires the drop in power levels at times. I could be mistaken, but I recall reading that the final work at the ESB for the digital transition wouldn't occur until January 2011.


Steve

My location: about 50 miles north of the ESB.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, January '11 is the date, that at least Channels 38 and 44, have mentioned in FCC filings concerning when they planned to move their antennas higher up on the ESB's Antenna Mast.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18702699
> 
> 
> agreed, seems that 11 & 13 need a powerboost. i c if i pull some strings



I hope for this everyday as they are very unreliable.


----------



## raj2001

Is it just me or was WFUT on low power today? Earlier today I barely got any signal and all other channels were fine. Later on they came back up strong as ever.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18705673
> 
> 
> Yes, January '11 is the date, that at least Channels 38 and 44, have mentioned in FCC filings concerning when they planned to move their antennas higher up on the ESB's Antenna Mast.



Good times. I hope it improves the strength out here.


However I have identified the root cause of my multipath issue. A chain saw will quickly fix that.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18705507
> 
> 
> '' Nope. The building on the left is my house. The one on the right is a horse barn."
> 
> You are really humanist, raj- to show TV to your horses so they can have good times too, you know if you had Tv for cows they could produce more milk



There's phone, electricity and water in there too. I'll even have wifi soon so I can surf when I'm working in the barn.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18706657
> 
> 
> There's phone, electricity and water in there too. I'll even have wifi soon so I can surf when I'm working in the barn.



How can you surf and use a shovel at the same time?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18706775
> 
> 
> How can you surf and use a shovel at the same time?



LOL good point


----------



## nycdigital09

raj , have you how to put xg91 together b4 ? i cant discern how to install the u bracket to tilt the antenna ?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18707731
> 
> 
> raj , have you how to put xg91 together b4 ? i cant discern how to install the u bracket to tilt the antenna ?



nope i never have.


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/18705607
> 
> 
> I've been seeing ups and downs in power levels affecting all stations at one time or another over the past couple of weeks. The VHF group of 7, 11 and 13 usually rise and fall together. 7 is always the strongest, 13 next and 11 the weakest of the group at all times and therefore likely to be the first lost.
> 
> 
> My biggest problem however is 9.1, which until the past couple of weeks had been reliable. I've also noticed reduced power levels on 41 and 47, though I don't watch these channels.
> 
> 
> I would guess that following the end of the TV season and May ratings period there has been a flurry of work going on that requires the drop in power levels at times. I could be mistaken, but I recall reading that the final work at the ESB for the digital transition wouldn't occur until January 2011.
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> My location: about 50 miles north of the ESB.



Ditto. I have been trouble receiving WPIX through my Samsung TV's digital tuner and also using Windows Media Center - but eventually it tunes. I did a scan of signal strength using the WMC tool and it got no signal for neither 11-1 or 13-1.


I am 3 blocks E. of the ESB and using an indoor Terk amplified antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

I would highly question the use of an amplified antenna that close to the transmitters.


You may very well be overloading your receiver with, you may not believe this, too strong of a signal.


Is there a way to operate your antenna passively?


I would definitely try it that way!


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18708629
> 
> 
> I would highly question the use of an amplified antenna that close to the transmitters.
> 
> 
> You may very well be overloading your receiver with, you may not believe this, too strong of a signal.
> 
> 
> Is there a way to operate your antenna in a passively?
> 
> 
> I would definitely try it that way!



Yes. It is a Terk HDTVa. It is an inline amplifier. I do not think it is that strong and it has a power switch. I will run the scan again with it off.


Update:

I just checked. I get a better signal with 9.1 with it on. 13.1 with it off but its still weak. Not sure about WPIX - I think it works either way.


----------



## Trip in VA

If an amp is in the line and turned off, it acts as an attenuator and kills signal rather than amplifying. To do a proper test, an amp would have to be removed from the line completely.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

Wow three blocks and 11 & 13 are weak. I thought I had it bad with only 4 miles. Now I don't feel as bad. This is my point if someone three blocks can't get it good then they really need to boost there power or I am right and they are running in reduced power.


----------



## SnellKrell

Neither!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18709782
> 
> 
> Neither!



Aunt still says that 39.1 to 4 are showing the same show for 1 hour. Music of some sort. then back to test screen and beep


Sounds like a test to me. No reason to have the same show on each sub.


Second time they done this


----------



## raj2001

WNYE still no PMT/PAT. They must not care about their OTA viewers to keep it messed up for this long, or think that only some people can't view their signal OTA (as I'm inferring from Mr. O'Driscoll's response).


----------



## LenL

Actually I am getting it. The problem is I was changing channels too fast. If you tune to 25.1 and leave it alone for like 20 seconds or more it eventually comes in.


I bet most people if not all that think it is not there actually receive it if they simply leave there TV tuned in and wait I don't understand the technical reason for this.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18711354
> 
> 
> Actually I am getting it. The problem is I was changing channels too fast. If you tune to 25.1 and leave it alone for like 20 seconds or more it eventually comes in.
> 
> 
> I bet most people if not all that think it is not there actually receive it if they simply leave there TV tuned in and wait I don't understand the technical reason for this.



That may work for some people but for me it just says "no signal" on my Apex DT250.


On the other TVs it doesn't pick it up during a scan.


----------



## SnellKrell

Doesn't work with my two receivers.


SNR meter registers a decent signal - but no reception!


----------



## nycdigital09

Originally Posted by LenL



> Quote:
> Actually I am getting it. The problem is I was changing channels too fast. If you tune to 25.1 and leave it alone for like 20 seconds or more it eventually comes in.



tried that, its not working


----------



## R.F. Burns

I have no problem with WNYE. I am 25 miles north of NYC. I have to wonder whether someone who is 4 blocks or so from Empire has trouble receiving a signal because they are in something of a No R.F. zone due to their location being underneith the tansmitter.


----------



## nycdigital09

put up the xg91 i dont if it was tropo last night, but i was getting most hartford stations at or near 80%. i even got wnjn which was being blocked by some buildings, this antenna is very light, i got up about 15 ft over my roofline with cm rotor, it rocks


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18711647
> 
> 
> I have no problem with WNYE. I am 25 miles north of NYC. I have to wonder whether someone who is 4 blocks or so from Empire has trouble receiving a signal because they are in something of a No R.F. zone due to their location being underneith the tansmitter.



The problem is not with the signal strength. It is 100% here.


The problem is that the program information is missing so most converter boxes do not know what is there and have no idea what to decode.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18712671
> 
> 
> The problem is not with the signal strength. It is 100% here.
> 
> 
> The problem is that the program information is missing so most converter boxes do not know what is there and have no idea what to decode.



I'm not only using a converter box here. I have two Samsung LCD TV's (a 26 inch & 40 inch 120 hz) and they all have the same trouble. The signal on PIX has been fairly weak here (using the strength meters on each receiver) as opposed to other more stable stations.


----------



## reddice

Channel 11 and 13 reception is terrible today. I lost channel 11 completely. Just a black screen. I don't seem so crummy in the sense that even someone here only lives three blocks can't get it reliable. And no I don't want to hear from you nycdigital09 saying I get those stations with a paper clip and stick in the 90's. Good for you live in nirvana reception. For most of us close we get terrible reception on 11 & 13 no matter what antenna we use.


Also WNYE on RF 24 is still a blank screen but I still get a good signal.


----------



## raj2001

They were occasionally dropping out here but I attributed that to static crashes due to lightning. WNJB had tiling as well so I don't think it was anything going on at the ESB.


----------



## reddice

Nope just weak for me as channel 7 is as strong as usual.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Reddice View Post 11734
> 
> 
> And no I don't want to hear from you nycdigital09 saying I get those stations with a paper clip and stick in the 90's. Good for you live in nirvana reception. For most of us close we get terrible reception on 11 & 13 no matter what antenna we use.



let me tell you my reception headaches are much worst than yours. I have buildings (seven stories) right across the street from me. i dont even have a line of sight to the esb. i have to point my antenna north and get a defraction for reception. the difference between your situation and mine is that i try to do something about. unlike you who wines and cusses here everyday here, instead of doing something to remedy it. i should be so lucky so have your situation.


----------



## LenL

Thre are so many great places to eat between your locations....so why don't you guys meet at a nice restaurant and discuss your OTA issues over some pasta, or pizza, or bugers etc!


You guys can't be more than 5 or 10 miles away from each other if that!


You both might actually have fun, and learn something from each other!


----------



## LenL

I meant BURGERS!


----------



## nycdigital09

len, that would be great, your treating, lol just kidding, reddice all he does is complain bout his reception non-stop i wish i had his problem, he just doesnt want to hear about it. all he needs to do is get a better antenna w/ larger mast. hes not in fringe location like you or other guys.


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/18708648
> 
> 
> Yes. It is a Terk HDTVa. It is an inline amplifier. I do not think it is that strong and it has a power switch. I will run the scan again with it off.
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> I just checked. I get a better signal with 9.1 with it on. 13.1 with it off but its still weak. Not sure about WPIX - I think it works either way.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18709526
> 
> 
> If an amp is in the line and turned off, it acts as an attenuator and kills signal rather than amplifying. To do a proper test, an amp would have to be removed from the line completely.
> 
> 
> - Trip




When I take the amp out, I hardly get any channels except for 7.1 and 2.1. 2.1 (CBS) gets signal strength with it off but not on. PIX sucks either way


----------



## reddice

When I used the Terk the amp did not di anything. Did not matter if it was on or off.


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18717424
> 
> 
> When I used the Terk the amp did not di anything. Did not matter if it was on or off.



But did you leave it inline? What did you switch too?


----------



## yobiworld

WOW 39 REALLY does play latin music. I wonder if 39 is supposed to be a Latin music CHANNEL like LATV.


----------



## mikepier

Anybody getting any tropo channels? I scanned early this morning, did not see anything.

The forecast said it was suppose to be favorable today.


----------



## raj2001

I haven't really looked last night or today as last night we were watching the BP oil spill cam.


But over the past few days I've been getting some of the philly stations coming in stronger as well as WTNH in connecticut.


----------



## nycdigital09

Originally Posted by mikepier View Post 11745


Anybody getting any tropo channels? I scanned early this morning, did not see anything.

The forecast said it was suppose to be favorable today.


good dxing last night, i got wtxx again, wvit and whdh just below treshold.


for some reason i get wtxx ch20 almost all the time now, they must have higher erp


----------



## nycdigital09

hey ryan, dude i was lookin at some your post here, and other sites, dude you been around the block i would say, i love the post you made about al jazeera coming to cable that was priceless. lol


----------



## AloEuro

Good arrangements - raj - enjoy, surely you will, that's what it is for


----------



## raj2001

AloEuro, I have no idea what you are talking about?


----------



## LenL

I know some of you love to see changes in the Tropo but for me I have said it many times...it does not seem to change my reception at all one way or another. In fact when I have had changes in reception I checked the Trop website and found NO changes in tropo.


So for some or many of us...there are other more important things impacting our reception.


----------



## raj2001

Tropo predictions are not 100% accurate.


Also, you don't have to have tropo ducting directly overhead for it to impact you. as long as it is nearby you'll have it.


----------



## nycdigital09

trip youre out there do you know if wtxx ch 20 out of hartford are transmitting at at 52kw erp, i see they have an application for 470k has this application been approved. is it effective as we speak ?


i ask cos im pickin their signal pretty steady at night. theyre tx bout 85 miles from my location.


txs


----------



## Trip in VA

Pretty sure they're at 52 kW. Not 100% sure, but pretty sure.


I'm back in NJ until at least Sunday but likely will not be making any visits.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier

I did a scan this morning, and I'm getting WHYY-DT 12.1 out of Philly at about 30% SS. That's about 120 miles away from where I am. Pretty neat. Must be the fog.


----------



## nycdigital09

thats a long distance, i read that this summer is going to be great for tropo. do you get the ct stations ?

which ones i can get pbs 49 really well, when tropo shows wtxx comes also


----------



## raj2001

Last night I got a few philly/SNJ stations, but they regularly come in here when there is tropo enhancement.


They are:


KYW-TV 3 (26) - Usually comes in broken up during the day, every day and is solid at night

WCAU-DT 10 (34)

WPHL-DT - 17

WYBE - 35

WNJS - 23 (22)


And I suspect something on channel 44 because WNYW was extremely broken up last night, unusually so.


My antenna is aimed at NYC which is at 185 degrees and philly is 213 degrees.


I saw a sliver of WTNH but my antenna is in the wrong direction. Maybe I'll order a two stack of YA1713s for DXing purposes. They're relatively cheap at 38 dollars.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18724068
> 
> 
> thats a long distance, i read that this summer is going to be great for tropo. do you get the ct stations ?
> 
> which ones i can get pbs 49 really well, when tropo shows wtxx comes also



I have not tried CT stations from home, but at work we have an OTA antenna and just for kicks I turned it towards CT ( on a normal day, no tropo), and I got WSAH, WEDW,and WTNH, which are by the coast of CT 60 miles away. I could not get Hartford stations.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18724172
> 
> 
> I have not tried CT stations from home, but at work we have an OTA antenna and just for kicks I turned it towards CT ( on a normal day, no tropo), and I got WSAH, WEDW,and WTNH, which are by the coast of CT 60 miles away. I could not get Hartford stations.



WSAH, WEDW, WTNH should be pretty easy from Long Island. That's a clear shot over the water.


----------



## nycdigital09

back in the early 90's i use to own a 2 story house in howard beach, i had a large rat shack uhf yagi, this thing would pick up all the uhf phily stations, when tropo would come in i got baltimore, dc and scranton, wilkes barre, i think the farthest signal i received was station in virginia beach. analog was so much better for reception.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18724541
> 
> 
> back in the early 90's i use to own a 2 story house in howard beach, i had a large rat shack uhf yagi, this thing would pick up all the uhf phily stations, when tropo would come in i got baltimore, dc and scranton, wilkes barre, i think the farthest signal i received was station in virginia beach. analog was so much better for reception.



Howard Beach is another clear shot over the water to Philly and Virginia Beach.


----------



## multipath

Hi There! I have a question regarding the *Pico Macom HLSJ* sold at SolidSignal (sorry, I can't post a link). If I feed its LINE leg with a signal from a VHF/UHF antenna, but only use the signal output by its "HI" leg, would such signal carry *both* the VHF-Hi and UHF bands? Someone here recommended this separator as a better alternative to a FM Trap, but I wonder if it would filter out the UHF signal as well.


----------



## nyc_eng

FYI - It appears that WNYE is back working on OTA! Can anyone else confirm??


----------



## SnellKrell

It's back!


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multipath* /forum/post/18726653
> 
> 
> Hi There! I have a question regarding the *Pico Macom HLSJ* sold at SolidSignal (sorry, I can't post a link). If I feed its LINE leg with a signal from a VHF/UHF antenna, but only use the signal output by its "HI" leg, would such signal carry *both* the VHF-Hi and UHF bands? Someone here recommended this separator as a better alternative to a FM Trap, but I wonder if it would filter out the UHF signal as well.



The "HI" port will contain the high-VHF and UHF signal relatively unaffected if the original signal is fed into the "LINE" port. FM and low VHF will be greatly (> 20 db) attenuated.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyc_eng* /forum/post/18727313
> 
> 
> FYI - It appears that WNYE is back working on OTA! Can anyone else confirm??



It was back since 2 days ago.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyc_eng* /forum/post/18727313
> 
> 
> FYI - It appears that WNYE is back working on OTA! Can anyone else confirm??



It never went away. If you tuned it in and were patient and waited about 20 seconds or so it would come in. There was a delay between when your TV tuned it and the picture came in.


The technophiles can explain why this happened.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> I saw a sliver of WTNH but my antenna is in the wrong direction. Maybe I'll order a two stack of YA1713s for DXing purposes. They're relatively cheap at 38 dollars.
> 
> __________________
> 
> Ryan, N2RJ
> 
> 
> Opinions expressed are solely my own, and not that of my employers, its parent company, affiliates and subsidiaries.
> 
> raj2001 is offline Report Post Reply With Quote



y dont you bulld one http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=112675


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18728940
> 
> 
> It never went away. If you tuned it in and were patient and waited about 20 seconds or so it would come in. There was a delay between when your TV tuned it and the picture came in.
> 
> 
> The technophiles can explain why this happened.



Maybe on your set, not on my two!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18728960
> 
> 
> y dont you bulld one http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=112675



I will if the materials cost is much less than tha $38+10 shipping of the YA1713.


Otherwise it isn't worth the hassle to me.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18728940
> 
> 
> It never went away. If you tuned it in and were patient and waited about 20 seconds or so it would come in. There was a delay between when your TV tuned it and the picture came in.
> 
> 
> The technophiles can explain why this happened.



The streams never went away but the PMT which tells your tuner which streams to use did.


Some converter boxes and sets cache that data so it never went away for those folks. However for most of us our sets dont cache that data so while we could receive the signal the set did not know what to do with it.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18728940
> 
> 
> It never went away. If you tuned it in and were patient and waited about 20 seconds or so it would come in. There was a delay between when your TV tuned it and the picture came in.
> 
> 
> The technophiles can explain why this happened.



Just because your tuner did that does not mean that most or even all tuners did. Most of them see no PMT and assume the signal is broadcasting dead air.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

It's about time ch.25/24, some time their programming is better than ch.13, if 13 did not have 13-3 V me , 25 would be better, what I mean is that the 2subs,-2 for kids,-3 spanish make 13 better than before


----------



## SnellKrell

Chacun Ã* son goÃ»t!


----------



## AloEuro

Last night after midnight ch.47-1 was showing Mexico-Italia friendly, fell asleep but saw 2 beauties by Mexico against Azury, tonight at midnight retransmission, alo


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18729669
> 
> 
> It's about time ch.25/24, some time their programming is better than ch.13, if 13 did not have 13-3 V me , 25 would be better



Personally I never find much of interest on 25 except the European news blocks.


I wish one of the local PBS stations would show PBS World in HD. Though I guess 25 isn't really a PBS anymore.


----------



## multipath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/18729810
> 
> 
> Personally I never find much of interest on 25 except the European news blocks.
> 
> 
> I wish one of the local PBS stations would show PBS World in HD. Though I guess 25 isn't really a PBS anymore.



Me too -- for each paragraph.


----------



## Trip in VA

PBS World is not available in HD.


I'm actually surprised that WNYE hasn't picked up MHz Worldview. Seems like a natural fit for them.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18730405
> 
> 
> PBS World is not available in HD.
> 
> 
> I'm actually surprised that WNYE hasn't picked up MHz Worldview. Seems like a natural fit for them.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I don't know if they would. WNYE seemed to want to drop anything and everything they had to do with PBS (and MHz by extension). Now they are almost like one of those cable public access channels.


----------



## nycdigital09

i wished they showed hamas tv i would tune into that


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/18729810
> 
> 
> Though I guess 25 isn't really a PBS anymore.



They are not. They dropped all of the PBS programming in 2004-2005 and now show mostly locally produced content.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18730769
> 
> 
> i wished they showed hamas tv i would tune into that



You can get that with a FTA dish. Dealers in nyc sell them.


----------



## nycdigital09

i was watchin a pbs program this morning about the muslims conquering spain in middle ages, first time i seen watched it, its was real astounding what the islamic regime accomplished back in those times. they were so advanced to other europen countries. they enlightned and really started the renaissance in europe. if you get a chance to watch it was very imformative.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18730749
> 
> 
> I don't know if they would. WNYE seemed to want to drop anything and everything they had to do with PBS (and MHz by extension). Now they are almost like one of those cable public access channels.



Other non-PBS stations have MHz, such as KCSM in San Francisco who dropped PBS last year but kept MHz WV. MHz WV is a service of Commonwealth Public Broadcasting (who owns my local PBS in Charlottesville) and not of PBS itself.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

i was reading an article recently that said that fcc is seriously considering selling the tv frequencies to cell and other communications. that would be blight to low income and people who could not afford cable/satellite programming. i can see that day coming


----------



## nycdigital09

Topic: Im Happy That THISTV wiil soon air on WPIX 11.3


----------



## nycdigital09

Thistv is Finally Coming to the nyc area this summer.


----------



## nyctveng

did the article mention that free tv WILL NOT go away. but rather all stations will share a single of a couple of frequencies and it will be on standard def. in a small market, all stations may be combined onto one channel from a single transmitter. in a major market like new york it may be a few channels.


right now OTA is not frequency efficient with stations spread across 51 different channels. auctioning off the airwaves will bring billions to feds.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18731123
> 
> 
> i was reading an article recently that said that fcc is seriously considering selling the tv frequencies to cell and other communications. that would be blight to low income and people who could not afford cable/satellite programming. i can see that day coming


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18730749
> 
> 
> I don't know if they would. WNYE seemed to want to drop anything and everything they had to do with PBS (and MHz by extension). Now they are almost like one of those cable public access channels.



i believe WNYE dropped their PBS affiliation many years ago and is completely run by the city. they are far above the quality of any public access channel.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/media/html/home/home.shtml


----------



## reddice

Cell companies don't need more stinking spectrum. So chopping off ch 52-69 is still not enough. There is so much MHz out there that is not being used leave the rest of the overcrowded spectrum for broadcasters.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18731895
> 
> 
> Cell companies don't need more stinking spectrum. So chopping off ch 52-69 is still not enough. There is so much MHz out there that is not being used leave the rest of the overcrowded spectrum for broadcasters.



umm well cell phones have over 90% penetration while OTA TV has less than 10%. 80-90% of homes receive tv via cable or satellite. in case u havent noticed smartphones are more popular than ever and the cell phone companies cant keep up with demand for data. while i don't want to see free OTA go away, it will become much more limited within 10 years.


----------



## Trip in VA

Broadcast is a much more efficient way to transmit live video than setting up separate web streams for each person watching.


- Trip


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18732481
> 
> 
> umm well cell phones have over 90% penetration while OTA TV has less than 10%. 80-90% of homes receive tv via cable or satellite. in case u havent noticed smartphones are more popular than ever and the cell phone companies cant keep up with demand for data. while i don't want to see free OTA go away, it will become much more limited within 10 years.



I *hope* you're wrong...but I really *think* you're right.


A year or so ago, I had what I now know was a mistaken idea that I was seeing more outdoor antennas in my area. That was only because I was more conscious of them in the wake of the DTV transition. Subsequently, at neighborhood meetings and at the swimming pool where I talk with my neighbors, I've found those antennas were there prior to people moving in. They're simply not in use at all. In my admittedly small sample universe of about 50-55, there's exactly one OTA viewer.


Me.


The irony is that (unlike NYC), Dallas-Ft. Worth is an ideal area for OTA. All of the towers are clustered at one location (like NYC) but are taller, more powerful (region II) and the region is mostly free of obstruction.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18729329
> 
> 
> Just because your tuner did that does not mean that most or even all tuners did. Most of them see no PMT and assume the signal is broadcasting dead air.
> 
> 
> - Trip



From the response I got back from the station there were people who received it w/o a problem.


I suspect most of the people complaining about not getting it anymore were like me. I thought I was not getting it. I wrote to the station saying so. The on day I tuned it in and left it on and waited and low and behold it came in after 20 ro more seconds. I suspect everyone complaining the station went away had the same issue I did. Of course if there were people who tuned it in and waited and waited and never ever received a signal then that is different than my case. Do you know this to be true?


There then would be 3 scenarios:


1. People continued to receive it w/o issue.


2. People thought they were not getting it but if they tuned in and waited the station would eventually come in after a delay of 20 or so seconds. (ME)


3. People tuned in and waited and never tuned it in.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18734528
> 
> 
> 
> 3. People tuned in and waited and never tuned it in.



I tried on a few different tuners:


Pinnacle PCTV 800e (Windows media center and Pinnacle PCTV software)

ATI TV Wonder PCTV 600 PCIe (Windows Media Center and Win TV V7)

Hauppauge Win-TV HVR 950q (Windows Media Center and

Apex DT250 DTV converter box

Sony Bravia KDL-52V5100 LCD HDTV

Samsung HL-R5667W DLP HDTV



All of them, nothing. I even waited more than 20 seconds.


I suspect that either they received it on test gear so they assumed it was working properly. It was fine on cable, which probably doesn't use the OTA feed. And since most people watch it on cable, it would not have been out for most people.


----------



## AloEuro

Last night at 8 to 9 ch.39 WNYN-LD subs1.2.3.4 have posted night line still picture with ESB at center and river (East or Hudson) afront + HSN-5 selling

The subs had logo TVC in blue with red star 3-4 stripes down above TVC -39

at bottom NNYN- LD , nice graphic design.

Anybody with cable/dish should know what the TVC means - Turner video corp.? or

Tribune video corp.? Any comment ?

One more thing, I have dismantled my rooftop-2indoor Antena 4-1 splitter system, and put simple 2 rabbit ears hook up, lost 7 and 41, restored ch.7 moving the ears, and today all ch. show up 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,17,25,31,34, 39is off, 41, 42 are off,47.644, 68, all with pair of rabbit ears Ant.


----------



## nycdigital09

Originally Posted by AloEuro





> Quote:
> One more thing, I have dismantled my rooftop-2indoor Antena 4-1 splitter system, and put simple 2 rabbit ears hook up, lost 7 and 41, restored ch.7 moving the ears, and today all ch. show up 2,4,5,7,9



You should try to tune your rabbit ears for better frequency match try extending it to only 15" on each side, you dont need to extend all they 36-40" imho


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18734912
> 
> 
> Last night at 8 to 9 ch.39 WNYN-LD subs1.2.3.4 have posted night line still picture with ESB at center and river (East or Hudson) afront + HSN-5 selling
> 
> The subs had logo TVC in blue with red star 3-4 stripes down above TVC -39
> 
> at bottom NNYN- LD , nice graphic design.
> 
> Anybody with cable/dish should know what the TVC means - Turner video corp.? or
> 
> Tribune video corp.? Any comment ?
> 
> One more thing, I have dismantled my rooftop-2indoor Antena 4-1 splitter system, and put simple 2 rabbit ears hook up, lost 7 and 41, restored ch.7 moving the ears, and today all ch. show up 2,4,5,7,9,11,13,17,25,31,34, 39is off, 41, 42 are off,47.644, 68, all with pair of rabbit ears Ant.



I do not think this is them? Maybe moving to NY?
http://www.tvctv.org/about-us/what-we-do 


My aunt said she saw 1 hour of spanish music programing on ALL the 39 subs.


Something must be coming. 39.5 still HSN


----------



## reddice

For a week now I still get nothing but a low signal strenght blank screen for channel 13 anymore. I am not complaing or angry if they want to lose me as a viewer because there reception sucks for most of us who are not as vocal as me then heck with them. I get all the major networks (except cw and ion) and Spanish stations great.


As for wnye it would not tune in at all on rf 24 but when I punched in 25 it did not go to wasa but right to wnye.


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> am not complaing or angry if they want to lose me as a viewer because there reception sucks for most of us



As we've told you many times before, the fault is on your end. You need to raise the antenna, not change the aim.


----------



## reddice

I know but I can't raise the antenna. The arm does not go that high. I might get a taller mask the problem is no one will put it up for me.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18738114
> 
> 
> I know but I can't raise the antenna. The arm does not go that high. I might get a taller mask the problem is no one will put it up for me.



Did you try what one poster did. I forget name of the poster. He took antenna and aimed it up. Not left or right. BUT North and south. He said by raising the antenna he got everything in strong.


I suggest you try pointing higher and try it in 10% degrees. See if that helps. I would try that before adding to a LONGER MAST.


It seems by pointing upwards he by passed all the multipath issues.


Plus pointing up does not cost you any money.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18735927
> 
> 
> I do not think this is them? Maybe moving to NY?
> http://www.tvctv.org/about-us/what-we-do
> 
> 
> My aunt said she saw 1 hour of spanish music programing on ALL the 39 subs.
> 
> 
> Something must be coming. 39.5 still HSN



Ya im watching latin Music videos on 39. What exactly is this channel supposed to be ??


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18738460
> 
> 
> Ya im watching latin Music videos on 39. What exactly is this channel supposed to be ??



This one: http://www.furiamusicaltv.com/ 


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech

So the owners of WNYN gave up the AZA affiliation to a subchannel on WMBC for that?


----------



## Trip in VA

You say "gave up." I imagine WMBC made the offer to Azteca and they jumped, rather than WNYN-LD dumping it.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech

Maybe so. I just find it a little unusual given that I believe they own both the network and the station.


----------



## Trip in VA

Would you rather be on a full-service 1000 kW station, or on an LP at 5.5 kW that is nulled both toward New Haven and Philly?


Also, I don't think WNYN-LD is owned by Azteca. It's supposedly owned by a "TVC Licensing."


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18738669
> 
> 
> So the owners of WNYN gave up the AZA affiliation to a subchannel on WMBC for that?


*Welcome to TVC Television


New York*



This Spanish station in the New York Tri-State area working hand-in-hand to bring U.S. Hispanics the best entertainment, news & sports programming in the language they prefer.





Canal Regular:


39.1


39.2


39.3


39.4


39.5



Well this is our answer. It will be Spanish on all subs except 39.5 which is HSN



TY trip in VA


----------



## nycdigital09

i think that 39.1 and subs are there empty purposely if there is another 911 type of disaster and theyre sort of like backup for networks imho


----------



## nycdigital09




> I might get a taller mask the problem is no one will put it up for me[/Q
> 
> 
> reddice do you have rabbitear antenna? if you do then walk around trying to find a sweet spot if you find 1 try setting your rig there fwiw peace


----------



## nyctveng

and for one week we thought u gave up complaining...


fact is channel 13 may be transmitting lower than the allowed power but they have great reach from central NJ to central CT thru cable and satellite.

sure they can raise power and gain a couple of viewers but they rely on donations not neccesarily rating points. OTA viewers like you are either too cheap or poor to contribute so they have no incentive to raise power to gain a impossible to please viewer.


for networks, a 10th of a rating point can translate into thousands of dollars of potential ad revenue so OTA viewers may be small in number but important.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18736662
> 
> 
> For a week now I still get nothing but a low signal strenght blank screen for channel 13 anymore. I am not complaing or angry if they want to lose me as a viewer because there reception sucks for most of us who are not as vocal as me then heck with them. I get all the major networks (except cw and ion) and Spanish stations great.
> 
> 
> As for wnye it would not tune in at all on rf 24 but when I punched in 25 it did not go to wasa but right to wnye.


----------



## reddice

Satellite only on directv as dish only carries the centercut downcoverted version which I will never watch.


----------



## raj2001

WNET-DT from ~48 miles out:


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18738732
> 
> 
> Would you rather be on a full-service 1000 kW station, or on an LP at 5.5 kW that is nulled both toward New Haven and Philly?
> 
> 
> Also, I don't think WNYN-LD is owned by Azteca. It's supposedly owned by a "TVC Licensing."
> 
> 
> - Trip



But if you're on a full-service signal relegated to a sub-channel of that signal with very limited cable/sat carriage, are you REALLY on?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18740506
> 
> 
> But if you're on a full-service signal relegated to a sub-channel of that signal with very limited cable/sat carriage, are you REALLY on?



As opposed to a low-powered signal that has no pull at all with cable/satellite. At least a full-service station like WMBC has must carry on the one signal which they can use to bargain with. (For example, forgoing analog must-carry to guarantee digital carriage of all subchannels. I've seen this agreement in multiple plaecs.)


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

this tv will soon be here http://prioritypr.net/long-term-affi...-new-york.html


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18741171
> 
> 
> this tv will soon be here http://prioritypr.net/long-term-affi...-new-york.html



Yes we know lol. Past old info lol But maybe some missed it. So thanks for showing it again.


Now the question is when is it coming?


----------



## AloEuro

" I do not think this is them? Maybe moving to NY?
http://www.tvctv.org/about-us/what-we-do "

Thanks guys for the information; Yes - keyboard21 - it is them on all 4subs- 39

TVC means Tualatin Valley Community {Corporation },- To a Latin Valley Community- just as the prospectus posted by Trip and you - keyboard21 - say. thank you,alo


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18741906
> 
> 
> " I do not think this is them? Maybe moving to NY?
> http://www.tvctv.org/about-us/what-we-do "
> 
> Thanks guys for the information; Yes, it is them on all 4subs- 39
> 
> TVC means Tualatin Valley Corporation , just as the prospectus posted by Trip and others say. thank you,alo



Well it is a Shame it is all spanish stations. Would like to see more then just HSN on the subs. Maybe it will happen? Funny how HSN could only get on a low power sub station? You would think they would pay to be on a Majors sub


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18741713
> 
> 
> Yes we know lol. Past old info lol But maybe some missed it. So thanks for showing it again.
> 
> 
> Now the question is when is it coming?



Now...This TV is now on 11.3. Showing some old cowboy movie / program. I saw This TV in my guide listings show up this morning for my PalDVR, but it just shows This TV in one hour blocks.


Do they have a schedule online?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/18741992
> 
> 
> Now...This TV is now on 11.3. Showing some old cowboy movie / program. I saw This TV in my guide listings show up this morning for my PalDVR, but it just shows This TV in one hour blocks.
> 
> *Do they have a schedule online?*



YES

http://www.thistv.com/schedule 



This is GREAT news


my aunt confirms that ThIS TV is on the AIR and the GUIDE is showing just the WORDS THIS TV. No guide info at this time.


She also said 11.2 has no guide info.


I would think WPIX would/will have guide information. Since 11.3 just came on the AIR at 6 am or so. So maybe they are working on it?


Trip in VA what do you think?


Does THIS TV have guide info in other states that they been on the air for awhile?


----------



## yobiworld

WTF ALL IM SEEING ON THIS TV IS VERY old movies. Is that what everyone is going crazy over??


PLEASE TELL ME THEY PLAN ON SHOWING MOVIES FROM THE 90s or 2000 and up??


----------



## multipath

Between oldies, more reality TV or even more Spanish channels, I pick oldies.

ThisTV could air The 3 Stooges 24-7, and I would still watch it once in a while.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18742678
> 
> 
> WTF ALL IM SEEING ON THIS TV IS VERY old movies. Is that what everyone is going crazy over??
> 
> 
> PLEASE TELL ME THEY PLAN ON SHOWING MOVIES FROM THE 90s or 2000 and up??



Not that I can see. As I just told my aunt. THIS TV will have OLD movies/TV shows from the 40's 50's 60's 70's maybe some 80's


ION TV has movies/ TV shows from 90's and 2000's


My aunt likes old movies. She also likes PBS stuff too. Remember before the recession most people who had OTA were older people.


This TV caters to that older crowd.


I doubt young people will find too much to watch. Other than old CLINT EASTWOOD movies


Here is a list then update each month.

http://www.thistv.com/movies 

http://www.thistv.com/shows 



This TV is like TV LAND and/or RETRO TV

http://www.tvland.com/shows/ 

http://www.myretrotv.com/shows.html


----------



## Trip in VA

I left NJ this morning. How did I miss This by like 6 hours?


raj2001, can you get me new TSReader data for it?


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18742977
> 
> 
> I left NJ this morning. How did I miss This by like 6 hours?
> 
> 
> raj2001, can you get me new TSReader data for it?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Aunt says 6 am is when she saw it on



Does THIS TV show guide info in other markets? Markets that they been on for awhile


----------



## Trip in VA

Well, I left this morning around 6:30, but didn't have a chance to check anything. I'd last checked 11's signal last night. Gr!


And I imagine guide data will be coming. They have a schedule on their website in the interim.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18742998
> 
> 
> Well, I left this morning around 6:30, but didn't have a chance to check anything. I'd last checked 11's signal last night. Gr!
> 
> 
> And I imagine guide data will be coming. They have a schedule on their website in the interim.
> 
> 
> - Trip



11.2 does not show any guide info, BESIDES just saying estrella TV in every slot.


My aunt says THIS TV has the same thing.


I hope they plan to add it.


----------



## Trip in VA

In the interim, you can use this: http://www.thistv.com/schedule 


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18743141
> 
> 
> In the interim, you can use this: http://www.thistv.com/schedule
> 
> 
> - Trip



She does not have internet. So I printed this week for her. Plus the months movie/tv list


----------



## nycdigital09

originally posted by raj2001



> Quote:
> I tried on a few different tuners:
> 
> 
> Pinnacle PCTV 800e (Windows media center and Pinnacle PCTV software)
> 
> ATI TV Wonder PCTV 600 PCIe (Windows Media Center and Win TV V7)
> 
> Hauppauge Win-TV HVR 950q (Windows Media Center and
> 
> Apex DT250 DTV converter box



Sony Bravia KDL-52V5100 LCD HDTV

Samsung HL-R5667W DLP HDTV



All of them, nothing. I even waited more than 20 seconds.


ryan is that all of them are sure 100%










you puttin as to shame here lol


----------



## nycdigital09

yes, about time thistv showed up kb21 i been posting not old stuff i been tellling you that thistv going to be here real soon, like now. lol


----------



## nycdigital09

you know what i want to watch is old reruns late at night or real early in morning. outer limits seahunt, highway patrol. im not interested in anything else.


----------



## nycdigital09

trip, i watch a bit of thistv the pq of 11.3 is grainy they should dump 11.2 is mostly crap in that sub. wtxx only has 1 sub and pq is much much better


----------



## nycdigital09

im sure reddice is gonna have a fit now that thistv is pix lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18743443
> 
> 
> im sure reddice is gonna have a fit now that thistv is pix lol



why? The two subs are SD right?


----------



## multipath

TV Listings by Yahoo: http://tv.yahoo.com/listings 

TV Listings by TitanTV: http://titantv.com 



Free. No sign-up required.


----------



## mikepier

Any news if ThisTV plans on going HD 16:9 or at least 16:9 480P ? Pity they show all these movies in 4:3.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18744406
> 
> 
> Any news if ThisTV plans on going HD 16:9 or at least 16:9 480P ? Pity they show all these movies in 4:3.



1) this tv carriage is mostly thru subchannels so very unlikely they will go hd


i dont think there are any cable companies in the country carrying them unless its thru a local OTA subchannel


2) old movies & shows they are 4:3 so why go hd?


----------



## Trip in VA

Nope, This TV is to be in 480i 4:3 for the forseeable future.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18744427
> 
> 
> 
> 2) old movies & shows they are 4:3 so why go hd?



I saw a lot of movies on the schedule that look like widescreen OAR.

They can still broadcast in 16:9, and still show 4:3 content

ION should do the same for it's movie channel on 31.3


----------



## StudioTech

Screenshot for Trip

 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18743232
> 
> 
> ryan is that all of them are sure 100%
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you puttin as to shame here lol



Trust me I got quite a few of them free/cheap.


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks, but I was more looking for an HTML Export...










- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

Nope, This TV is to be in 480i 4:3 for the forseeable future.


thistv pq is terrible, wait till they have the mets at the same time, pix should only 1 sub like other stations too little bw for 2 subs fwiw


----------



## raj2001

It could be worse. They could be like ABC.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18745206
> 
> 
> Screenshot for Trip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us



What does this Info mean to us laymen who do not understand this. ty


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> What does this Info mean to us laymen who do not understand this. ty
> 
> keyboard21 is online now Report Post Reply With Quote



is beyond your scope of understanding kb21 lol

seriously is a prog that scoping out ch11 bitrate of each sub hows that


----------



## reddice

Channel 11 is coming in good today. I like thistv with it's classic shows however even for a 480i picture it does look pretty bad. Other subs like 4.2 look better.


----------



## yobiworld

Forget the picture lets try adding some modern day movies ON THIS TV


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18748964
> 
> 
> Forget the picture lets try adding some modern day movies ON THIS TV



That is what ION is for.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18746261
> 
> 
> Thanks, but I was more looking for an HTML Export...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip, I just emailed one to you.


All I can say is that at 1.5Mbps it looks like youtube. But I'm not complaining!


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks. I'm wondering what the ranges of the bitrates are on 11-3. If I was there, I could test it.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

If you could walk me through it I could do it.


----------



## raj2001

Yeah it's just a huge mess right now, lots of mosquito noise (around the bug), macroblocking and brightening/dimming. I hope they tweak/tune it over time.


----------



## Trip in VA

It's a feature of the paid version, which I have...


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

And it looks like they forgot to renew the TSReader domain... oops


----------



## AloEuro

As you gentlemen may have noticed, all except maybe Reddice,wpix11-1 1920x 1080i 30 HZ - This TV 11-3 is running same as -2 Estrella 704x480i at 30 HZ in 2 hrs intervales 24 hours.

During commercials they show list of 3 features - 3x time hrs for each of the 3 show/movies in each 24hrs frame/day, EPG/Info show only irrelevant 2hrs time slot- no info,all info during commercials.

This week is Burt Reynold week, also young Roger Moore -european made,british color movies, good story lines-never seen on American TV, worth to see.

This tv is basically good,solid, forgotten, never seen before movies - value package 24 hrs, also shows kids shows in morning maybe before 9/10AM, welcome adddition/competition to Ion 31/telefutura68,alo


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> his tv is basically good,solid, forgotten, never seen before movies - value package 24 hrs



basically they show "B" movies. personally im indefirent to it. retro tv is better imho.


----------



## nyc2010

so is there anything we users can do to get better picture quality for this tv?


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18749063
> 
> 
> That is what ION is for.



Whoever thinks ION is movie channel needs there eyes checked seriously.


ION only shows movies on weekends and they have a tendency to repeat the exact same movies over and over again.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18752317
> 
> 
> Whoever thinks ION is movie channel needs there eyes checked seriously.
> 
> 
> ION only shows movies on weekends and they have a tendency to repeat the exact same movies over and over again.



Why do people complain about FREE TV? Do not like Free TV? Cable has different paid packages.


You are not going to get CNN, Showtime or HBO for FREE.


You can always get NETFLIX $10 per month


----------



## nyc2010

free tv rocks! the topping is the HD channels. that's all i gotta say.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyc2010* /forum/post/18752052
> 
> 
> so is there anything we users can do to get better picture quality for this tv?



Contact WPIX and request that they allot ThisTV more bandwidth. That would of course mean it would have to come from either the main channel or Estrella.


----------



## nyc2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18754397
> 
> 
> Contact WPIX and request that they allot ThisTV more bandwidth. That would of course mean it would have to come from either the main channel or Estrella.



I like the HD channel, but if they take it away from estrella then i might request, otherwise no point in messing with the HD channel.


as of now this really looks like a youtube video.


----------



## SemiChemE

FWIW, I don't have TSReader, but comparing ThisTV from WPIX-11.3 and WRGB-6.2 from Albany, the WPIX sub is significantly degraded. There is about a 1-2 second lag on 11.3 compared to 6.2. The current program on 11.3 is very choppy, I don't know if this is a bandwidth issue or a problem with the feed as it doesn't really seem like a digital artifact. (More like watching an old film movie, when the projector catches then skips a frame quickly). The previous program did not have this choppy behavior, but I did observe noticeable pixellation and other digital artifacts in fast-moving scenes.


The 6.2 signal is still SD of course, but doesn't have the pixellation in fast-moving scenes. A few Digital artifacts are still visible (eg. blocking of the shadowing). But overall it is pretty clear.


----------



## nycdigital09

have to agree wtxx ch20-2 also has thistv the pq is flawless. pix has to get rid off estrella tv which of course of no one cares for either way. lets email to pd or engineer at pix to get this fixed.


----------



## raj2001

Actually Estrella TV needs to move to WASA-LD, which no one cares about anyway.


----------



## Trip in VA

I do wonder why Liberman bought WASA-LD despite having an affiliation with WPIX for Estrella. Seems like once that deal came about, they should have canceled the sale.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18756008
> 
> 
> Actually Estrella TV needs to move to WASA-LD, which no one cares about anyway.



this is always a possibility AFTER their deal expires with WPIX. WPIX gave Estrella cable carriage which they would have never gotten with WASA.


----------



## yobiworld

Picture quality on THIS TV is good and WASA should ADD MHZ that would be GREAT


----------



## raj2001

Is it just me or is WXTV 41 macroblocking really bad during fast scenes of the RSA vs Mex world cup match?


----------



## SnellKrell

No macroblocking on my set.


Only problem - the picture is very, very soft - hardly looks like HD!


----------



## AloEuro

Friday morning 39-1,2,3,4 were showing some gangster film, didn't have time to change my boxes- 1 would not show it- seems they are back in business, -5 HSN.

This TV finally uses EPG/Info, today 7 movies, of course mostly 'B' films, but some

of them are worthy, if you have the time


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18761782
> 
> 
> Is it just me or is WXTV 41 macroblocking really bad during fast scenes of the RSA vs Mex world cup match?



That was Friendly right? what was the score?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18761967
> 
> 
> Friday morning 39-1,2,3,4 were showing some gangster film, didn't have time to change my boxes- 1 would not show it- seems they are back in business, -5 HSN.
> 
> This TV finally uses EPG/Info, today 7 movies, of course mostly 'B' films, but some
> 
> of them are worthy, if you have the time



Confirmed THIS TV now using Guide info


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Is it just me or is WXTV 41 macroblocking really bad during fast scenes of the RSA vs Mex world cup match?
> 
> __________________
> 
> Ryan, N2RJ
> 
> 
> Opinions expressed are solely my own, and not that of my employers, its parent company, affiliates and subsidiaries.



i did notice that at beginning of match, there was picture freeze, some mb but later it was ok


----------



## nycdigital09

sorry i watched on satellite, not ota.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18761973
> 
> 
> That was Friendly right? what was the score?



Friendly? LOL no way dude. This was the opening match.


It ended 1-1 with RSA scoring the first goal near the end of the first half which was surprising since I expected Mexico to totally destroy them.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18761835
> 
> 
> No macroblocking on my set.
> 
> 
> Only problem - the picture is very, very soft - hardly looks like HD!



Maybe it's because I was watching a 17" screen from 2ft away. It looked pretty bad.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18762137
> 
> 
> i did notice that at beginning of match, there was picture freeze, some mb but later it was ok



At times it was fine but some of the closeup shots when they are running showed the crowd in a colored, grainy mess.


----------



## raj2001

I tried the recording on a different MPEG decoder and it loorked fine... hmmm looks like I might have some stuff to tweak.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> At times it was fine but some of the closeup shots when they are running showed the crowd in a colored, grainy mess.



you know what that can be - you need a faster refresh like 120hz


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18762562
> 
> 
> you know what that can be - you need a faster refresh like 120hz



Nah it's fine. this is on my laptop, and when I use a different codec it works better.


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18762200
> 
> 
> Maybe it's because I was watching a 17" screen from 2ft away. It looked pretty bad.



I watched RSA v. Mexico game on 58" screen from about 10" away.


There was some of the worst macroblocking I've ever seen when there were close-up shots of players running. The closeups of the fans, however, looked great.


(I watched 7 pm rebroadcast on channel 68 OTA.)


----------



## jmsnyc

Anyone in Manhattan able to pick up Retro TV - WRNT from New Haven, CT?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Anyone in Manhattan able to pick up Retro TV - WRNT from New Haven, CT?



you mean wsah ch43 i dont think they no longer show that.


----------



## nycdigital09

ryan, yeah i noticed the hd degrade when they show the players up close on ch41, but i think is the international feed not the station.


----------



## AloEuro

" 2010 WORLD CUP COVERAGE - GROUP STAGE " the Yahoo Home page -first page- click for results - it has all

A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H groups and dates for each team, recap- commentaries after game, super.

The probems you gentlemen have mentioned on your Mex.-RSA match on my 20"Sony

OTA the 44-1 HD has little hazy picture which is done by the afrikaners taking shots from too far distance, the sound is lower compared to sub 68-2, but the sub did have breakage of telecast throughout the match in the retransmission, that what you have complained about was only for the sub, the prime 41-1 was good no breakage

Today briefly for the S.Korea-Greece 2:0 and Argentina-Nigeria 1:0 everything was fine


----------



## AloEuro

yobiworld - " Whoever thinks ION is movie channel needs there eyes checked seriously."

Movie ch. is every station which shows 1 movie a day on any of their subs, ION 31 does that, that is why we call it movie station, comprende?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18766356
> 
> 
> you mean wsah ch43 i dont think they no longer show that.



i think he mean WRNT as he wrote. no one even CT can pick that up, it's low power out of hartford (center of CT)


----------



## J_ph

Any problem hooking up a CM7777 with a grounding block between the preamp and the power supply?


thanks


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18766775
> 
> 
> i think he mean WRNT as he wrote. no one even CT can pick that up, it's low power out of hartford (center of CT)



correct.... I was searching Retro tv website for their closest stations to NYC.... oh well...


still no guide data for THIS correct?


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aloeuro* /forum/post/18766591
> 
> 
> yobiworld - " whoever thinks ion is movie channel needs there eyes checked seriously."
> 
> movie ch. Is every station which shows 1 movie a day on any of their subs, ion 31 does that, that is why we call it movie station, comprende?



ummmmm what?? One movie a day really.


The dont show movies every day on ION but whatever floats your boat.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Any problem hooking up a CM7777 with a grounding block between the preamp and the power supply?
> 
> 
> thanks



should be good to go man


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18766378
> 
> 
> ryan, yeah i noticed the hd degrade when they show the players up close on ch41, but i think is the international feed not the station.



That's pretty much what I thought.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18766779
> 
> 
> Any problem hooking up a CM7777 with a grounding block between the preamp and the power supply?
> 
> 
> thanks



No problem at all. I have a friend locally who has theirs setup the exact same way.


----------



## J_ph

First.... Thanks to everyones help I have a successful OTA installation, I'm in the 07930 area and the auto scan grabs 50 channels, although not all usable but plenty to choose from. I get all of the majors and others that I need to explore with the following gear:


CM4228 + CM7777 (pointed directly at a bunch of trees)


I do have a couple questions, why does WNYW Fox show up as both 5-1 and 5-2, this is also true of WWOR which is on both 9-1 and 9-2 ( this happens on 2 sets after auto-scan)


Also, any tips on getting channel/show listings, any recommended iPhone Apps? To help me reduce the number of channels are there any lists of channels that are "good" and which ones I should dump?


thanks again


----------



## SnellKrell

Because Fox, the owner of both stations has chosen to use each station's one sub-channel to duplicate the main channel's feed in SD!


This all goes back to the loss of the World Trade Center. WWOR's digital transmission was from the north tower and WNYW had never moved from ESB. So, Fox used 5.2 to provide WWOR's digital signal to the market.


Made sense then. Why Fox continues to steal bits from their main HD channels is a mystery to me! Go figure!


----------



## Trip in VA

For listings of channels, I would recommend my own website, rabbitears.info, and for guide listings, I recommend TitanTV.


WNYW's transmitter provides 5-1 and 9-2, while WWOR's transmitter provides 5-2 and 9-1. This is so if one transmitter goes off the air, the programming can continue to be available on the other. Of course, with the Fox splicer, 9-2 does not harm the HD quality on 5-1.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18770591
> 
> 
> First.... Thanks to everyones help I have a successful OTA installation, I'm in the 07930 area and the auto scan grabs 50 channels, although not all usable but plenty to choose from. I get all of the majors and others that I need to explore with the following gear:
> 
> 
> CM4228 + CM7777 (pointed directly at a bunch of trees)
> 
> 
> I do have a couple questions, why does WNYW Fox show up as both 5-1 and 5-2, this is also true of WWOR which is on both 9-1 and 9-2 ( this happens on 2 sets after auto-scan)
> 
> 
> Also, any tips on getting channel/show listings, any recommended iPhone Apps? To help me reduce the number of channels are there any lists of channels that are "good" and which ones I should dump?
> 
> 
> thanks again



Get yourself a PALDVR. You will get a list of all the programs for all of the stations and you can even record!


----------



## jpru34

Am I the only one having serious receptions problems on 4 and 9. All the others are coming in at usual full strength. I am getting 0% on 9. Bizarre.


----------



## J_ph

thanks for the tips!


I see people listing signal strength ( as a percentage..... how do you get this info?


thanks again


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18770619
> 
> 
> Made sense then. Why Fox continues to steal bits from their main HD channels is a mystery to me! Go figure!



Some areas don't have reliable coverage of one but have of the other.


In my case, 5.1 takes extraordinary measures just to get a lock. To get dropout free reception is hard, but to get something watchable still takes heroic measures.


9 on the other hand is very strong. So even if 5 is not receivable, 9 is.


So I'm kinda glad they simulcast each other.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18770856
> 
> 
> thanks for the tips!
> 
> 
> I see people listing signal strength ( as a percentage..... how do you get this info?
> 
> 
> thanks again



It depends on your TV or converter box. There should be a "signal strength" or "meter" option or button. If the scale is out of 100, people commonly express the signal reading as a percentage.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18770591
> 
> 
> Also, any tips on getting channel/show listings, any recommended iPhone Apps?



Zap2it has an app:

http://www.zap2it.com/services/site/...6090.htmlstory


----------



## jpru34

at 8:00 pm, reception went back on these channels. work on combiner perhaps?


----------



## raj2001

Probably just atmospherics. 4 and 9 were consistent here all day.


----------



## jmsnyc

Not sure if this was posted or old news but guide data is now available for THIS tv - though reception was a little crappy tonight.


----------



## raj2001

Something is happening with WPXN.


I see a bunch of h.264 streams and a bunch of "AirTV" PIDs. All encrypted however with Nagravision I think.


Is that the mobile DTV?


----------



## Trip in VA

No, but if you can capture it with TSReader, please do!


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks for the TSReader capture. I don't know what ION's planning, but it definitely looks like encrypted video feeds. I know absolutely nothing about what it is they're doing.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18775112
> 
> 
> Thanks for the TSReader capture. I don't know what ION's planning, but it definitely looks like encrypted video feeds. I know absolutely nothing about what it is they're doing.
> 
> 
> - Trip



ION is a pioneer in mobile video and have tested this for years. there is a demand of mobile video but not that crap that ION will offer nor the stuff the unsuccessful FLO TV service is providing.

http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=9626


----------



## Trip in VA

The "FLO" in MediaFLO stands for "Forward Link Only" as in one-way transmission. How does he expect data services to work with no uplink?


Anyway, whatever we're seeing can't be mobile since it's not MH. It's straight MPEG-4. It's probably a fixed subscription service of some kind, though I can find no press about it at all.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001

It could be used in conjunction with 3G/4G services or probably for push email.


----------



## keyboard21

Trip in VA


Do you expect any more new channels or sub stations this year? If so can you tell us what you think might be in the works?


----------



## Trip in VA

I have no inside information about any future subchannel additions in New York. However, I suspect that at some point, Liberman will realize that there is money to be made by divvying up the bandwidth on WASA-LD and leasing it out, so you may see some services pop up there, but I suspect that if they do, they will be foreign language or religious in nature.


I've heard that RTV is seeking a new affiliate in the New York area but that there have been no takers yet. I do not know if WDVB-LD 23 may consider it once that signal signs on the air, but I feel it would be the most likely candidate.


I have to believe that WKOB-LD 2 will not be able to lease any of the three remaining subchannels so long as they remain on channel 2. If they relocate to channel 42 in West Orange, the signal will not do well enough in New York.


Not terribly helpful, I know, but that's about all I know of or see coming.


- Trip


----------



## rcodey

I hope they don't move to channel 42 and broadcast from West Orange. That will knock out my reception of Fox from Philadelphia.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18777890
> 
> 
> I have no inside information about any future subchannel additions in New York. However, I suspect that at some point, Liberman will realize that there is money to be made by divvying up the bandwidth on WASA-LD and leasing it out, so you may see some services pop up there, but I suspect that if they do, they will be foreign language or religious in nature.
> 
> 
> I've heard that RTV is seeking a new affiliate in the New York area but that there have been no takers yet. I do not know if WDVB-LD 23 may consider it once that signal signs on the air, but I feel it would be the most likely candidate.
> 
> 
> I have to believe that WKOB-LD 2 will not be able to lease any of the three remaining subchannels so long as they remain on channel 2. If they relocate to channel 42 in West Orange, the signal will not do well enough in New York.
> 
> 
> Not terribly helpful, I know, but that's about all I know of or see coming.
> 
> 
> - Trip



WASA is channel 25 the NYC bloomberg station. Correct? The one with the NYC traffic on .2


Not sure they would lease anything?



WDVB-LD 23 may consider it once that signal signs on the air, (When will this be?) what programing will it have? I think I got the answer. *WDVB-CA is the ImaginAsian affiliate station for Edison, NJ and some of the New Jersey suburbs of New York City. It broadcasts on Channel 39.*


WKOB-LD We do not even get this station? TV FOOL shows that we should. It seems strong enough. Do you get this station? IF so what programing?


So besides the possible RTV (Programing like THIS TV)


Nothing good or promising seems to be on the horizon. You would think a 24/7 news program would be a given. FOX has room for FOX NEWS.


Maybe THIS TV Will do so well. That WPIX will get rid of 11.2 and replace it with some other form of English entertainment.


I picked my aunt up a discontinued DishpalDVR (Cheap on sale). She never used a VCR, DVD, or DVR.


But I wanted to get the extra features like TVguide 8 days of program data. And she can pause live TV.


Wish me luck explaining how this works. BUT now she can use one remote to control TV and PAL. Record using a TV Guide. So programs like Leno can be recorded. She can also record THIS TV or ION movies.


She says she gets 35 stations now (Including subs) Not bad for FREE tv. Before in Analog she got 16. Half were very snowy and hard to watch. DTV has been a GREAT improvement for her. Every one of the 35 stations comes in crystal clear with strong signal. CBS,NBC, and FOX were impossible to enjoy in analog for her.


Hard for her to understand the technology. Remember computers came out in the 80's. So she missed learning them. The Boxes and TV of today you need to understand some basic concepts.


BUT I am proud of her. She got to learn the DTVPAL pretty good (She loves the GUIDE). So the PAL DVR with the extra features looks almost identical except with extra Guide info and DVR functions.


The best part is the PAL and PAL DVR. Both find new stations and deleted stations automatically. No need for me to explain how to search for stations.


You guys are a great help with news and how to get the most out of the equipment


thanks


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18778089
> 
> 
> WASA is channel 25 the NYC bloomberg station. Correct? The one with the NYC traffic on .2
> 
> 
> Not sure they would lease anything?



Come on, man, I have a website that would answer that for you in 15 seconds.










WNYE-24 maps to 25-1 and is the station you are thinking of (owned by New York City).


WASA-LD 25 maps to 64-1 and right now has infomercials on its main subchannel with a slideshow of pictures of New York on 64-2. It's owned by Liberman Broadcasting, the owner of the Estrella TV network seen on 11-2.



> Quote:
> WDVB-LD 23 may consider it once that signal signs on the air, (When will this be?) what programing will it have? I think I got the answer. WDVB-CA is the ImaginAsian affiliate station for Edison, NJ and some of the New Jersey suburbs of New York City. It broadcasts on Channel 39.



If I knew when it would be, I'd have given a date. And I'm not convinced that ImaginAsian is still on the air, or if it is, that it will continue to be aired on WDVB-LD.



> Quote:
> WKOB-LD We do not even get this station? TV FOOL shows that we should. It seems strong enough. Do you get this station? IF so what programing?



I managed to pull it in with my grandparents' attic antenna, but being on channel 2, no indoor antenna at any distance stands a chance. It just has Daystar (religion) on 42-1 with test patterns on 42-2 through 42-4. Again, I have a website for this.



> Quote:
> So besides the possible RTV (Programing like THIS TV)



RTV has classic TV shows. This TV has mainly MGM movies. So I'm not sure one is really "like" the other.



> Quote:
> Nothing good or promising seems to be on the horizon. You would think a 24/7 news program would be a given. FOX has room for FOX NEWS.



Fox News gets something like a dollar per cable/satellite subscriber. They're not about to risk reducing that amount by putting it on an over-the-air signal. Not that I'd call Fox News or CNN or MSNBC "all news" as they seem to spend much more time with talking heads giving opinions than on news.



> Quote:
> Maybe THIS TV Will do so well. That WPIX will get rid of 11.2 and replace it with some other form of English entertainment.



Don't bet on it. In other markets, Tribune has LATV, Azteca, or Universal Sports on its subchannels depending on location. Universal Sports and Azteca already have carriage in New York, and WPIX just finished dropping LATV likely for contractual reasons relating to Estrella TV now on 11-2.


- Trip


----------



## multipath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18778089
> 
> 
> Hard for her to understand the technology. Remember computers came out in the 80's. So she missed learning them. The Boxes and TV of today you need to understand some basic concepts.



You could also show her TV listings on the web. they are very easy to use and display lots of info. She wouldn't be able to set up a recording, but she would be able to perform searches for anything within a 2-week time frame. Depending on how "web savvy" she is, this could be a great resource to her.


My favorite is www.TitanTV.com . You don't need to sign-up to see the listings, but if you have an account, you can setup the guide to only show your favorite channels, plus you can have the show's details always displayed on the guide and choose font sizes.


I have never used the guide on my converter box. I always check the listings on TitanTV -- my PC is always on, though.







Check out the screencap below. Notice that the details of each show is displayed. If a particular show is clicked, a window pops up to display even more details about the clicked show (Closed Captioning, Ratings, Actors, etc.).


----------



## LenL

Question for Trip or anyone else who knows the answer.


When we were going through the conversion to Digital we heard that after the conversion the analog transmitters would be removed and the digital transmitters would be relocated to the better spots on the ESB formerly housing the analog transmitters.


My questions related to this follow:


1. Did I imagine that?


2. Did it happen?


3. Will it ever happen?


4. Do we know when it will happen?


5. If it does happen will it help reception? And for what channels?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18778487
> 
> 
> 1. Did I imagine that?
> 
> 
> 2. Did it happen?
> 
> 
> 3. Will it ever happen?
> 
> 
> 4. Do we know when it will happen?
> 
> 
> 5. If it does happen will it help reception? And for what channels?



First of all, it's the antennas that would be relocated, not the transmitters.


1. No.


2. Not yet, to my knowledge.


3. Probably.


4. Likely when economic conditions improve, if not sooner. I have no concrete information; that's a straight guess.


5. I would think so. Right now, only 5 and 9 have applied for (and received) FCC approval for such a move. The other stations have not yet done so, I don't think.


- Trip


----------



## J_ph

Well.... I just called Dish to cancel service and they were surprisingly nice. The call was fast and efficient, I kept thinking that there must be a question that I haven't asked : )


cost to cancel - the return shipping 2 boxes x $15


I definitely liked Dish over Cable, but I couldn't justify the cost over...... free.


now I just need to climb around the house and remove all the dishes, wires and plug the holes in the house.


regards


----------



## SnellKrell

Here's a partial answer -


Both Fox stations in the market, WNYW and WWOR have both filed with the FCC that

it expects to have its move to high positions on the Antenna Mast to be completed

1/11.


WPXN was expected to be in its new position on the Antenna Mast this past August - nothing and no explanation that I can find.


Pure speculation on my part, but there's some very valuable real estate at the top of the Antenna Mast - the now unused VHF Analog Combiner for Channel 4 and 5 - too

good of a location not to be used.


I'm surprised that with the the Digital Transition a year old, that things haven't moved along faster. It could be that the poor economy has had its impact on the ESB, the owner of the facility, and the local stations.


I will let the engineering professionals comment on the effect on reception of moving higher. As a neophyte in this area, I will venture into the unknown with a big "yes!"


----------



## J_ph

>My favorite is www.TitanTV.com .


I just started to use the TitanTV iphone app, it syncs to your account on titantv.com.


I also like the interface of the Zap2tv app and it doesn't have banner ads, but it doesn't have an online account and when the phone is used in vertical orientation it only shows 1/2 hour increments. But the UI is cleaner so I'll probably keep both. All the other apps i.TV, TVguide etc have way too many Ads and don't seem to be as useful.


both titanTV and Zap2TV were recommended here on the forum... thanks.


----------



## nycdigital09

>My favorite is www.TitanTV.com .


they don't update their guide, they still show latv on 11.3 wtf.


fwiw wasa lp25 signal gets totally obliterated by wnyc 24.1 here in queens i cant get reliably so there.


----------



## raj2001

I don't think it gets obliterated. At work I am blocks away from 4TS and I get them both reliably.


At home I get them both reliably with WASA being a bit lower.


----------



## jmsnyc

I live in a small apartment with two televisions. I use one indoor antenna and split it three ways - a tv, a converter box and a pc card. Do you think spilitting the antenna signal degrades quality? I am debating buying a 2nd antenna but I would likely put them right next to each other anyway.


I recorded a show from THIS and playback was intermittitingly garbled.


----------



## Trip in VA

In my experience I've found WASA-LD 25 to be stronger than WPXN-31.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multipath* /forum/post/18778453
> 
> 
> You could also show her TV listings on the web. they are very easy to use and display lots of info. She wouldn't be able to set up a recording, but she would be able to perform searches for anything within a 2-week time frame. Depending on how "web savvy" she is, this could be a great resource to her.
> 
> 
> My favorite is www.TitanTV.com . You don't need to sign-up to see the listings, but if you have an account, you can setup the guide to only show your favorite channels, plus you can have the show's details always displayed on the guide and choose font sizes.
> 
> 
> I have never used the guide on my converter box. I always check the listings on TitanTV -- my PC is always on, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the screencap below. Notice that the details of each show is displayed. If a particular show is clicked, a window pops up to display even more details about the clicked show (Closed Captioning, Ratings, Actors, etc.).



You assume she has internet. She does not. You assume she can use a computer. She can not. And yes I tried to give her an old laptop to see if she would like it. Does not.


Funny though, Back in the 70's she was using state of the art typewriters. Typing at speeds that would make your head blow.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18778563
> 
> 
> >My favorite is www.TitanTV.com .
> 
> 
> I just started to use the TitanTV iphone app, it syncs to your account on titantv.com.
> 
> 
> I also like the interface of the Zap2tv app and it doesn't have banner ads, but it doesn't have an online account and when the phone is used in vertical orientation it only shows 1/2 hour increments. But the UI is cleaner so I'll probably keep both. All the other apps i.TV, TVguide etc have way too many Ads and don't seem to be as useful.
> 
> 
> both titanTV and Zap2TV were recommended here on the forum... thanks.



If you use the FIREFOX browser. You can get Adblock. Blocks all ads.

ALL FREE


PM me if you would like details


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/18780034
> 
> 
> I live in a small apartment with two televisions. I use one indoor antenna and split it three ways - a tv, a converter box and a pc card. Do you think spilitting the antenna signal degrades quality? I am debating buying a 2nd antenna but I would likely put them right next to each other anyway.
> 
> 
> I recorded a show from THIS and playback was intermittitingly garbled.



As long as you get a strong signal on the meter, and there are no breakups, you don't need another antenna. There is no such thing as degrading quality on a digital signal. Either you get the picture or you don't.


What happens if you bypass the splitter and record THISTV, do you get the same results?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18780440
> 
> 
> As long as you get a strong signal on the meter, and there are no breakups, you don't need another antenna. There is no such thing as degrading quality on a digital signal. Either you get the picture or you don't.
> 
> 
> What happens if you bypass the splitter and record THISTV, do you get the same results?



The cable company has told me different on many occasions. Each splitter takes -3 DB from signal. When my house had 4 and the cable company used one outside. I then lost all signal. Took two off and it bounced back. Also they gave me a booster.


I would think Antenna would be the same thing.


Of course there are much more technical people here then me. So I would listen to them.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18780440
> 
> 
> As long as you get a strong signal on the meter, and there are no breakups, you don't need another antenna. There is no such thing as degrading quality on a digital signal. Either you get the picture or you don't.
> 
> 
> What happens if you bypass the splitter and record THISTV, do you get the same results?



u can't degrade picture quality by adding a splitter but u can reduce signal strength. a digital picture at 80% signal looks exactly the same as a digital picture @ 100%. if your signal strength is borderline, then adding a splitter may wipe out the channel completely.


re:this tv it has been discussed here that WPIX is giving little bandwith to it so it looks as good (or bad) as a webstream.


----------



## jchtrout1

Does anyone know if WCBS has activated their planned translator on long Island.

They had plans to use WLIW's tower and broadcast on ch. 22, but I cant find out if it is yet active.

I was hoping that i would be able to restore my WCBS, NY channel with that location, but cant see it.

Thanks,


----------



## multipath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18779900
> 
> 
> >My favorite is www.TitanTV.com .
> 
> 
> they don't update their guide, they still show latv on 11.3 wtf..



I noticed that too, but I think they will have it updated this week.


----------



## J_ph

>they don't update their guide, they still show latv on 11.3 wtf..

I noticed that too, but I think they will have it updated this week.


what is broadcast on 11.3?


----------



## J_ph

>If you use the FIREFOX browser. You can get Adblock. Blocks all ads.

ALL FREE



I was more concerned with the Ads on the iPhone apps which occupy the UI and you always have the potential of clicking on the darn things by mistake.


Are you using a Firefox browser on the Iphone and it removes Ads? I see that was has been announced but I didn't think it was available yet.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18781688
> 
> 
> >If you use the FIREFOX browser. You can get Adblock. Blocks all ads.
> 
> ALL FREE
> 
> 
> 
> I was more concerned with the Ads on the iPhone apps which occupy the UI and you always have the potential of clicking on the darn things by mistake.
> 
> 
> Are you using a Firefox browser on the Iphone and it removes Ads? I see that was has been announced but I didn't think it was available yet.



I do not have a IPHONE


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18781672
> 
> 
> >they don't update their guide, they still show latv on 11.3 wtf..
> 
> I noticed that too, but I think they will have it updated this week.
> 
> 
> what is broadcast on 11.3?



11.3 THISTV

http://www.thistv.com/


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18774133
> 
> 
> Something is happening with WPXN.
> 
> 
> I see a bunch of h.264 streams and a bunch of "AirTV" PIDs. All encrypted however with Nagravision I think.
> 
> 
> Is that the mobile DTV?



And today it's gone.


----------



## mikepier

Got some tropo going on here tonite. I'm picking up WHYY-DT out of Philly again. 120 miles out.


----------



## nycdigital09

no tropo here queens what other stations are you getting beside whyy can you get abc affiliate out of philly on ch6 suppose to be twice as strong as abc 7 here.


----------



## J_ph

>Got some tropo going on here tonite. I'm picking up WHYY-DT out of Philly again. 120 miles out.


I have a new installation of a cm4228, is it always correct to orient the mast exactly vertical? or is the vertical orientation less important than it's compass orientation?


thanks.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> >Got some tropo going on here tonite. I'm picking up WHYY-DT out of Philly again. 120 miles out.



yeah now im also i get wtxx ch20 out hartford with indoor antenna also ch26 new london ct. is pretty good


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18782846
> 
> 
> no tropo here queens what other stations are you getting beside whyy can you get abc affiliate out of philly on ch6 suppose to be twice as strong as abc 7 here.



Nothing else when I did a scan, just WHYY 12.1.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18782849
> 
> 
> >Got some tropo going on here tonite. I'm picking up WHYY-DT out of Philly again. 120 miles out.
> 
> 
> I have a new installation of a cm4228, is it always correct to orient the mast exactly vertical? or is the vertical orientation less important than it's compass orientation?
> 
> 
> thanks.



If the mast is not perfectly vertical, I don't think it would affect reception that much. It's much more important to generally aim the antenna towards the transmitter

But as far as tropo ,my antenna is not pointed at Philly at all and I'm still picking up a station. I'm more or less pointing the antenna WNW from where I am on the Island towards the ESB.


----------



## keyboard21

Ok lets change it up a bit. For all you Antenna Junkies.


As you know We have a Terk-50 (Like the Terk-55) Just a long stick looking thing. It is the best we ever used. We get 35 channels including subs. It has a built-in amp. That I can turn on or off. I changed the Coax cable to TERK HD cable (at best buy) It improved signal by 5 points. We get everything in great 10 to 12 miles away. That is ok since We are only 7 miles from ESB and Times Square. But anything in the 20 miles plus is a no go. We are in an apartment and can not put antenna outside, but we have it on the wall that has no apartment next too it. It faces the street and ESB.


Here is the Question. IS there anything else I can do or buy (cheap) that will increase the distance? Or increase the signal I got? There are some stations that show up on the DTVpal Plus but have no video or Audio. So the box sees it ,but not strong enough to get video.


Is there a gismo or something I can get that will help? Not looking for a new antenna. Just an add-on. Maybe just a little help will make the difference.



PS I tried the ClearStream C2 and got same results and signal strength on every station. Yes I wrote it down and compared.


I know we should be happy we get all the majors and some extras.


I just like tweaking it.



Thanks


----------



## yobiworld

*Has anyone made any movie suggestions for THIS TV???*


Im hopping they add some some Black Films like *Spike lee* *School Daze,Do The Right Thing or the Alien Series with Sigourney Weaver Nightmare On Elm street.* Hopefully they wont be to hard to get.


Figured since we all wanted a movie channel why not make some *reasonable* suggestions

http://www.thistv.com/contact-us


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18783342
> 
> *Has anyone made any movie suggestions for THIS TV???*
> 
> 
> Im hopping they add some some Black Films like *Spike lee* *School Daze,Do The Right Thing or the Alien Series with Sigourney Weaver Nightmare On Elm street.* Hopefully they wont be to hard to get.
> 
> 
> Figured since we all wanted a movie channel why not make some *reasonable* suggestions
> 
> http://www.thistv.com/contact-us



They are owned/partner with MGM so only MGM movies will they have. Also seems like old movies only


PS I wrote them 3 times asking when they would be coming to NYC. NEVER a REPLY. Not even I cant help you e-mail.


Do not expect any replys


----------



## dvdchance

I just did a scan myself and am getting CW27 WGNT from Hampton Roads / Norwalk VA. And I'm in Middlesex Cty NJ.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/18783380
> 
> 
> I just did a scan myself and am getting CW27 WGNT from Hampton Roads / Norwalk VA. And I'm in Middlesex Cty NJ.



How far away is that from you?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18783166
> 
> 
> As you know We have a Terk-50 (Like the Terk-55) Just a long stick looking thing. It is the best we ever used. We get 35 channels including subs. It has a built-in amp. That I can turn on or off. I changed the Coax cable to TERK HD cable (at best buy) It improved signal by 5 points. We get everything in great 10 to 12 miles away. That is ok since We are only 7 miles from ESB and Times Square. But anything in the 20 miles plus is a no go. We are in an apartment and can not put antenna outside, but we have it on the wall that has no apartment next too it. It faces the street and ESB.
> 
> 
> Here is the Question. IS there anything else I can do or buy (cheap) that will increase the distance? Or increase the signal I got? There are some stations that show up on the DTVpal Plus but have no video or Audio. So the box sees it ,but not strong enough to get video.
> 
> 
> Thanks



What other channels are you looking to get 20 miles out? Also what floor do you live on?


Not much you can do with an antenna like that, especially indoors. You can try to put it as high as possible in your apt and keep the coax cable as short as possible.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18783527
> 
> 
> What other channels are you looking to get 20 miles out? Also what floor do you live on?
> 
> 
> Not much you can do with an antenna like that, especially indoors. You can try to put it as high as possible in your apt and keep the coax cable as short as possible.



Yes I did like a 3 to 6 foot cord. Raising it to the ceiling does nothing.


Here is the TVfool pic. As you see it goes from 7 miles to over 20. Nothing in the middle


I would like to get WMBC, WNJN, WLIW


Wxny is too low power to get even though it is 10 miles away and it is in a different direction as ESB.


So anything with a 282 degree or 286 degree should come in. If it is close enough


I can tell you all the 7 miles away comes in 85 to 100 % reception.


Even 39.1 to 5 comes in at 80 %

http://i47.tinypic.com/6hulw1.jpg


----------



## nyc2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18783166
> 
> 
> Ok lets change it up a bit. For all you Antenna Junkies.
> 
> 
> As you know We have a Terk-50 (Like the Terk-55) Just a long stick looking thing. It is the best we ever used. We get 35 channels including subs. It has a built-in amp. That I can turn on or off. I changed the Coax cable to TERK HD cable (at best buy) It improved signal by 5 points. We get everything in great 10 to 12 miles away. That is ok since We are only 7 miles from ESB and Times Square. But anything in the 20 miles plus is a no go. We are in an apartment and can not put antenna outside, but we have it on the wall that has no apartment next too it. It faces the street and ESB.
> 
> 
> Here is the Question. IS there anything else I can do or buy (cheap) that will increase the distance? Or increase the signal I got? There are some stations that show up on the DTVpal Plus but have no video or Audio. So the box sees it ,but not strong enough to get video.
> 
> 
> Is there a gismo or something I can get that will help? Not looking for a new antenna. Just an add-on. Maybe just a little help will make the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> PS I tried the ClearStream C2 and got same results and signal strength on every station. Yes I wrote it down and compared.
> 
> 
> I know we should be happy we get all the majors and some extras.
> 
> 
> I just like tweaking it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks



its not the best antenna but try putting it on a window and see what other channels can you get. if your windows have the special glass, you may have to open it to see what signals you catch.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18783519
> 
> 
> How far away is that from you?



According to Google maps it's around 340 miles driving distance.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> According to Google maps it's around 340 miles driving distance



not bad, i dx that station before analog, last night i picked up 26 from n london, 20 hartford 45 and this with indoor antenna. my xg91 picked up 33 hartford cbs affilitate, also boston wgbh and wcvc tropo was so good i lost all my locals.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Here is the Question. IS there anything else I can do or buy (cheap) that will increase the distance? Or increase the signal I got? There are some stations that show up on the DTVpal Plus but have no video or Audio. So the box sees it ,but not strong enough to get video.



you can add a corner reflector to your antenna i would some chicken wire 1 x2 and put it behind it to make a focal point like a parabolic dish. i made a coathanger antenna that gets all locals pretty good. lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18784337
> 
> 
> you can add a corner reflector to your antenna i would some chicken wire 1 x2 and put it behind it to make a focal point like a parabolic dish. i made a coathanger antenna that gets all locals pretty good. lol



See I was thinking someone would say a preamp? Or is that what the antenna has built in? Or an after amp? Such a thing?


Reflector might not work with this type. I did try a clearstream C2 that has a refletor and got the same signals and stations as the Terk 50 . So i returned it.


I remember when I had a metal frame near the antenna. it made things much worse. So a reflector might make things worse


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18783372
> 
> 
> They are owned/partner with MGM so only MGM movies will they have. Also seems like old movies only
> 
> 
> PS I wrote them 3 times asking when they would be coming to NYC. NEVER a REPLY. Not even I cant help you e-mail.
> 
> 
> Do not expect any replys




MGM????? Oh well at lease i tried


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18786547
> 
> 
> MGM????? Oh well at lease i tried



YES MGM


I do not think they read there e-mail at all. At least no response. Not even a basic FAQ


read
http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/101084


----------



## SnellKrell

"The fallout from MGM's bankruptcy troubles is getting uglier and uglier..." From a recent Web site.


The company is hanging on by its corporate fingernails.


Answering e-mails, I would imagine, is not on the top of MGM's list - they need someone to buy them with deep, deep pockets - and soon!!!!!


The latest James Bond movie has put in abeyance pending finding a buyer!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18786740
> 
> 
> "The fallout from MGM's bankruptcy troubles is getting uglier and uglier..." From a recent Web site.
> 
> 
> The company is hanging on by its corporate fingernails.
> 
> 
> Answering e-mails, I would imagine, is not on the top of MGM's list - they need someone to buy them with deep, deep pockets - and soon!!!!!
> 
> 
> The latest James Bond movie has put in abeyance pending finding a buyer!



I meant e-mailing ThisTV


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> see I was thinking someone would say a preamp?



kb21 you would a real antenna, basically your antenna is half wave dipole which has very little gain, even with the preamp. those type of antennas are sold as novelty, or decor reasons.

you cannot go against the logic that antenna has to have multi elements to have gain. but you can try building one yourself is not too difficult youtube has many videos to go about it.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18787232
> 
> 
> kb21 you would a real antenna, basically your antenna is half wave dipole which has very little gain, even with the preamp. those type of antennas are sold as novelty, or decor reasons.
> 
> you cannot go against the logic that antenna has to have multi elements to have gain. but you can try building one yourself is not too difficult youtube has many videos to go about it.



So How can you explain the fact that I tried a ClearStream C2. Got the same results. Same signal strength and stations. Yes I checked each station. I do not agree the $100 Terk 50 was/is a toy. So far best we have had.



Do you consider the C2 a "Real" Antenna? It is made for the outside. It is rated number 2 on AVF fourm. Yet got the same results. Yes I mounted it on a stick/pole in Apartment. Tried different placements.










Fact is I can not mount these outside. That is the major issue. Window placement makes no difference either.


Just thought there was some box or preamp that might give me 5 to 10 points more.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Do you consider the C2 a "Real" Antenna? It is made for the outside.



is meant to be used outside but is doesnt have much gain either, again like i said earlier, antenna physics says that antenna needs to be fairly large to have "real" gain, there is no other way, im sure that other forum members would concur with this, ei raj trip. im not trying to shoot you down by any means. c2 is probably a adequate for 20-40 miles, in urban setting. terk is known more for making indoor antennas, but for outdoors, you need to use a winegard, channel master, antennas direct. use dipole similar to your antenna for my fm reception,, i have a 19db preamp attached to it it picks up fm stations upto 50 miles ok.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18787431
> 
> 
> is meant to be used outside but is doesnt have much gain either, again like i said earlier, antenna physics says that antenna needs to be fairly large to have "real" gain, there is no other way, im sure that other forum members would concur with this, ei raj trip. im not trying to shoot you down by any means. c2 is probably a adequate for 20-40 miles, in urban setting. terk is known more for making indoor antennas, but for outdoors, you need to use a winegard, channel master, antennas direct. use dipole similar to your antenna for my fm reception,, i have a 19db preamp attached to it it picks up fm stations upto 50 miles ok.


*Features of the Terrestrial Digital C2 ClearStream Multi-Directional Digital HDTV Antenna


* The first in a series of compact, highly efficient antennas designed and optimized for 2009 frequencies associated with the DTV transition.

* Range: Up to 50 Miles

* Gain of 10.2 dBi

* Consistent gain through the entire DTV channel spectrum

* Totally new engineering for post-2009 DTV frequencies

* Great for indoor, outdoor and attic use

* Dimensions: 20"H x 10"W x 5"D*



I guess my point is a 19 gain Antenna is like a DB4? Or a C4? That is way too big for a apartment.


The C2 says 50 miles but I could not get anything over 7 miles away. Even though it says so, I tried in the window also. The 20 to 40 miles from the C2 seems to be a myth. For us anyway. Exact results as the terk 50

*Edit: I looked up the C4 it has 14.8 dBi gain. The DB4 has 13.7 dB gain*


Even these are too big for an apartment. You do not suggest a YAGI in an apartment?


I guess there is limit what I can do.
*

The terk 50 specs:


Amplifier gain

10dB*


Same as the C2. I guess that is why I got the same results.


Somehow I doubt a C4 or DB4 would do any better.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Sigh...


The C2 is an excellent UHF antenna for reception of UHF channels 14-51. It is probably the best antenna available for UHF reception indoors based on the combination of its size and performance.


If your problem channels indoors are transmitting on VHF, you probably have issues that an antenna cannot correct due to far lower transmit power, interference form many sources including FM radio transmissions and from electrical and electronic devices within and near the home. A simple dipole antenna is about as good as it can get indoors on VHF short of installing a real (read "large") VHF antenna inside your TV room.


Amplifiers on indoor antennas are generally worthless but, since consumers seem to be hooked on believing that they are the answer, antenna manufacturers respond by supplying them because the retailers ask them to. Generally, the cheap ones are junk and cause more problems than they might ever solve. The better amplifiers at least do no harm.


I have personally used a C2 at over 70 miles for UHF reception and over 50 miles for high VHF reception. However, my case is somewhat special since I have both the test equipment and the background to exploit its strengths and to overcome its weaknesses. YMMV (definitely!).


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18787431
> 
> 
> is meant to be used outside but is doesnt have much gain either, again like i said earlier, antenna physics says that antenna needs to be fairly large to have "real" gain, there is no other way, im sure that other forum members would concur with this, ei raj trip. im not trying to shoot you down by any means. c2 is probably a adequate for 20-40 miles, in urban setting. terk is known more for making indoor antennas, but for outdoors, you need to use a winegard, channel master, antennas direct. use dipole similar to your antenna for my fm reception,, i have a 19db preamp attached to it it picks up fm stations upto 50 miles ok.





I agree. Some of the so called "HD indoor antennas" might work, but laws of physics dictate the only real way to capture a TV signal effectively is to use a conventional outdoor antenna.

I know this means nothing to you Keyboard21 since you stated that you can't put an antenna outside, but I would consider yourself fortunate that you can pick up the channels that you can.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/18787567
> 
> 
> Sigh...
> 
> 
> The C2 is an excellent UHF antenna for reception of UHF channels 14-51. It is probably the best antenna available for UHF reception indoors based on the combination of its size and performance.
> 
> 
> If your problem channels indoors are transmitting on VHF, you probably have issues that an antenna cannot correct due to far lower transmit power, interference form many sources including FM radio transmissions and from electrical and electronic devices within and near the home. A simple dipole antenna is about as good as it can get indoors on VHF short of installing a real (read "large") VHF antenna inside your TV room.
> 
> 
> Amplifiers on indoor antennas are generally worthless but, since consumers seem to be hooked on believing that they are the answer, antenna manufacturers respond by supplying them because the retailers ask them to. Generally, the cheap ones are junk and cause more problems than they might ever solve. The better amplifiers at least do no harm.
> 
> 
> I have personally used a C2 at over 70 miles for UHF reception and over 50 miles for high VHF reception. However, my case is somewhat special since I have both the test equipment and the background to exploit its strengths and to overcome its weaknesses. YMMV (definitely!).



Sigh x2


The Terk 50 and C2 were identical in VHF and UHF stations and signal. NO CHANGE. It must be because of the indoor use.


I have this on the wall (vertically) behind a dresser. So it is hidden. What if I put some tinfoil sheets on the back of the dresser. To act like a reflector? Would that help or hurt? Would cost nothing to try. Or make a thin reflector.


I have read that tinfoil does nothing? Also read were it helps.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> The C2 is an excellent UHF antenna for reception of UHF channels 14-51



a uhf yagi ei. radio shack u75 would run circles around c2 , i use rs i get reliable reception 60 miles digital, is almost as good as xg01 which i use for dxing.


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 by law you cannot be denied access to using an outdoor antenna, but it can be restricted in size to around 3 ft, but thats another issue, if you have clear view not blocked by bldgs to esb then you should get reception from nj stations, i read that senson silver is a good indoor antenna is looks alot like miniature yagi antenna have you tried that yet? the thing with antenna selection is that most antennas are hyped up by sellers ei 120 miles reception. you read this before http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 this antenna is what i would use, if i had trouble getting those uhf stations,

Terrestrial Digital DB2 - Double Bow Tie


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18787922
> 
> 
> kb21 this antenna is what i would use, if i had trouble getting those uhf stations,
> 
> Terrestrial Digital DB2 - Double Bow Tie



Ya I read that thread and that is why I choose the C2 over the Db2. Because we still get VHF channels 2 or 3 if I remember correctly.


The DB2 has a high gain of 11.4dB That is only 1.2 more gain then terk 50 and c2. It might make a difference or I might lose 7, 11, and 13. I once spoke to someone on here that had the DB2 and got up to 15 to 20 miles away VHF and 50 to 60 on UHF (used outside)


I know that it is against the law for Apt buildings to prohibit Antennas. BUT this is for my Aunt. She will not make any waves. She just wants to live in peace.


If I go over with another antenna to try. She will go nuts lol.


No one answered the TIN foil question as reflector? Guess worth a quick test?


Or is there a cheap reflector I can build in a short amount of time?



BTW thanks for all the Answers. You guys are the best
*

EDIT: I watched a youtube video on how to make an antenna with reflectors. The guy used cheap Disposable Grill Toppers (2)*
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...l-topper/18611 


The video here: http://www.tvantennaplans.com/ 


I could easily attach some professional grade Velcro on the back of the dresser and grill topper.


The whole thing would cost less then $10. Worth a try? OR is tinfoil better?


----------



## reddice

I need a new antenna too. The RCA 751 does not cut it for channels 11 & 13. They come in fine one day and terrible the next however channel 7 I get in the 90s. All other channels 4 miles from the esb I get in the 70s to 80s except wpxn which is a terrible signal.


I know all you say I need a new antenna just I want to have it installed right. Not the crummy job my uncle did. I see antennas on my neighboors roofs have a thin long pole hooked up to a good size antenna. I and my uncle have no idea how to install it that way.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18786712
> 
> 
> YES MGM
> 
> 
> I do not think they read there e-mail at all. At least no response. Not even a basic FAQ
> 
> 
> read
> http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/101084



Hopefully they make more affiliation agreements with people other then MGM. With a better movie library.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18788344
> 
> 
> Hopefully they make more affiliation agreements with people other then MGM. With a better movie library.



I think two subs are max???


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18787713
> 
> 
> a uhf yagi ei. radio shack u75 would run circles around c2 , i use rs i get reliable reception 60 miles digital, is almost as good as xg01 which i use for dxing.



Not inside the same physical footprint.... There is a market for each.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/18788060
> 
> 
> I need a new antenna too. The RCA 751 does not cut it for channels 11 & 13. They come in fine one day and terrible the next however channel 7 I get in the 90s. All other channels 4 miles from the esb I get in the 70s to 80s except wpxn which is a terrible signal.
> 
> 
> I know all you say I need a new antenna just I want to have it installed right. Not the crummy job my uncle did. I see antennas on my neighboors roofs have a thin long pole hooked up to a good size antenna. I and my uncle have no idea how to install it that way.



Before giving up on your existing antenna, add either an FM filter or a high pass filter to eliminate FM from your system.


Your problems isn't signal strength, it is either interference or multipath. The filter can remove the interference.


----------



## J_ph

Quote:

I'm in Randolph and I get 5.1 in the 90's with a CM4228. I do use a CM7777 preamp and my antenna is about 40 feet up in the air. However I may need all that since I am on the side of a hill and my CM 4228 just about peaks over the crest of the hill.


If you don't have the issues I have you might be fine without the preamp. Otherwise you might have to buy one.
Hi Len


I finally re-located your post about the CM4228/CM7777 combo, since you were nearby I went with the same setup and it works great. I think that my tree obstacle warranted the preamp, without it I get very few usable channels. I still get some minor breakup of 5.1, I'm going to try to repoint the antenna again to see if that works, but I thought I'd post a list of the channels that I am getting to see if this is similar to what you have, so that I can limit time and the sun blisters from playing around on the roof.


There are several channels that I've removed from the list, redundant PBS broadcasts (58) and several spanish and korean channels ( I wish that I spoke either but my language skill set is very limited ). So this is what I have found to be a usable/working channel list.


thanks again


j

 

channels.pdf 78.638671875k . file


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18790168
> 
> 
> Hi Len
> 
> 
> I finally re-located your post about the CM4228/CM7777 combo, since you were nearby I went with the same setup and it works great. I think that my tree obstacle warranted the preamp, without it I get very few usable channels. I still get some minor breakup of 5.1, I'm going to try to repoint the antenna again to see if that works, but I thought I'd post a list of the channels that I am getting to see if this is similar to what you have, so that I can limit time and the sun blisters from playing around on the roof.
> 
> 
> There are several channels that I've removed from the list, redundant PBS broadcasts (58) and several spanish and korean channels ( I wish that I spoke either but my language skill set is very limited ). So this is what I have found to be a usable/working channel list.
> 
> 
> thanks again
> 
> 
> j



Someone posted when they re-pointed they raised the angle and got the best reception ever. Costs nothing to try. Raise it up toward the sky


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 i guess xg91 is not good idea for your aunt ? sensor silver is nice indoor antenna heard of it ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18791464
> 
> 
> kb21 i guess xg91 is not good idea for your aunt ? sensor silver is nice indoor antenna heard of it ?



Yes I read about the silver Sensor. Honestly I read mostly bad things. It is very directional. So anything you do not point at is missed. I think the terk 50 is totally different and top of the line terk. Not a TOY


I think I will make a cheap reflector out of disposable grill sheets (2). Cost is $2.50 each.


I will attach these to the back of the dresser using Velcro (no damage)


The antenna is against the wall right behind the dresser. Little space between it and dresser.


I will see if that works. I do not want to buy a new antenna Unless I knew 100% that it would get many more stations. Plus I think my aunt is antenna out. She thought the C2 was UGLY. So the Terk is hidden. If I got a xg91. I would have to build a new room next door for it lol.


I just wanted to know if there was a cheap box or something I could do to improve what I got. The reflector Idea is a good one and so cheap that it does not matter if it fails.



Thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

I've used the Silver Sensor for a number of years and its being highly directional is an asset in my situation - helps tremendously dealing with multipath.


Additionally, the original Silver Sensor was designed by the BBC and has been used by the FCC in evaluating digital UHF transmission.


So, you've read negative things about this terrific antenna. Just remember that one antenna cannot serve everyone's needs.


----------



## multipath

I've used the Terk HDTVa which is similar to the Silver Sensor and I agree that that's a superb UHF antenna! Highly recommended.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/18790168
> 
> 
> Hi Len
> 
> 
> I finally re-located your post about the CM4228/CM7777 combo, since you were nearby I went with the same setup and it works great. I think that my tree obstacle warranted the preamp, without it I get very few usable channels. I still get some minor breakup of 5.1, I'm going to try to repoint the antenna again to see if that works, but I thought I'd post a list of the channels that I am getting to see if this is similar to what you have, so that I can limit time and the sun blisters from playing around on the roof.
> 
> 
> There are several channels that I've removed from the list, redundant PBS broadcasts (58) and several spanish and korean channels ( I wish that I spoke either but my language skill set is very limited ). So this is what I have found to be a usable/working channel list.
> 
> 
> thanks again
> 
> 
> j



Great! If you want to discuss further I am at [email protected] .


For some reason 5.1 is one of my strongest channels, it doesn't matter the time of the year, the weather etc. It seems to always be solid over 90%.


I had some tree issues too and cutting them down did help (they were on the border with a neighbor and leaning on their property so I justified it plus I have a ton of trees on my property).


----------



## AloEuro

Last week I had wabc7-1 and 41-1 on recall/flashback and on ch7 during game

showing replay the same time same replay was shown on 41-1, which means the replays during match are made in S.Africa.

Also the sound volume on HD 41-1 or 68-1 HD is much weaker than on subs, but the PQ on HD never breaks while the subs sometime show pixelation;

Thus far it's good ride thanks to Univision41-68, gracias hombres


----------



## raj2001

By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet but WNBC now has mobile DTV as of 2 days ago.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18795548
> 
> 
> By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet but WNBC now has mobile DTV as of 2 days ago.



What does that mean? Cell phones?


ty


----------



## NYCIcarus

Hello all, first post.


I live in a residential building in Manhattan.

Our building has/had an analog receiver on the roof which is now obsolete.

It distributed OTA free to anyone in the building.


Is there a way we could do the same with HD signals?


Also, does anyone know a resource where I could look up how many people are using OTA?

Had a disagreement with someone the other day who believes OTA generally died after the analog cut-off?


Thanks!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCIcarus* /forum/post/18796950
> 
> 
> Hello all, first post.
> 
> 
> I live in a residential building in Manhattan.
> 
> Our building has/had an analog receiver on the roof which is now obsolete.
> 
> It distributed OTA free to anyone in the building.
> 
> 
> Is there a way we could do the same with HD signals?
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone know a resource where I could look up how many people are using OTA?
> 
> Had a disagreement with someone the other day who believes OTA generally died after the analog cut-off?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



There are better experts to answer this. But I will take a shot with what I believe to be the truth.


Your ANALOG Antenna on the roof CAN pick up SD (Standard Digital) 480 I (p)


My old Analog Antenna gets SD no problem. HD is a problem. I even called my manufacture. They said SD is no problem for analog antenna's


It would need to be replaced to get HD. But if you are happy with the quality of SD. Then it should be no problem. All depends what TV you have. An older CRT TV does not show the imperfections. So SD will look great on a CRT. If you have a new LCD or Plasma. You will see imperfections with SD. Still watchable imo. Old CRTs need a converter box. There was a government program that made the $60 boxes $20. I think it is over. Sears is selling the DTVPAL DVR (discontinued) For $150 (firesale). You can use it as a DVR for OTA. With guides. It is has Coax (for Crt), RCA, Component, HDMI (For LCD)


As far as how many people use OTA after the conversion. I am sure some here have links and exact numbers. The # 35 to 50 million people sticks in mind. I believe because of the economy and the sub stations and better picture quality. More people went OTA Then before.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18797244
> 
> 
> There are better experts to answer this. But I will take a shot with what I believe to be the truth.
> 
> 
> Your ANALOG Antenna on the roof CAN pick up SD (Standard Digital) 480 I (p)
> 
> 
> My old Analog Antenna gets SD no problem. HD is a problem. I even called my manufacture. They said SD is no problem for analog antenna's
> 
> 
> It would need to be replaced to get HD.



No offense, but this could not be more wrong if it tried. An antenna is an antenna is an antenna. SD or HD, it doesn't matter, it's all zeroes and ones.


What can matter is if you previously had a VHF-only antenna. Then UHF signals (like WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, and WWOR) may not come in on it. Icarus, this could be your problem, if the antenna is not working well for you.


Or there could be an actual cable-like distribution system that no longer works; I am not entirely clear on what your post means. Could you clarify?


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18797285
> 
> 
> No offense, but this could not be more wrong if it tried. An antenna is an antenna is an antenna. SD or HD, it doesn't matter, it's all zeroes and ones.
> 
> 
> What can matter is if you previously had a VHF-only antenna. Then UHF signals (like WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, and WWOR) may not come in on it. Icarus, this could be your problem, if the antenna is not working well for you.
> 
> 
> Or there could be an actual cable-like distribution system that no longer works; I am not entirely clear on what your post means. Could you clarify?
> 
> 
> - Trip



I said there was better then me. I only said what i was told by terk. Then they lied to me


----------



## Trip in VA

In all honesty, I'm not surprised. They want to sell you another antenna whether you truly need one or not.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCIcarus* /forum/post/18796950
> 
> 
> Hello all, first post.
> 
> 
> I live in a residential building in Manhattan.
> 
> Our building has/had an analog receiver on the roof which is now obsolete.
> 
> It distributed OTA free to anyone in the building.
> 
> 
> Is there a way we could do the same with HD signals?
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone know a resource where I could look up how many people are using OTA?
> 
> Had a disagreement with someone the other day who believes OTA generally died after the analog cut-off?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



An antenna that was used 30 years ago can still be used today, provided it is a VHF/UHF combo antenna since Ch7,11,and 13 are VHF and the rest are UHF.

The only problems I can see are:


1) There is a distribution amp in your bldg that only goes up to like 450Mhz, which does not pass through the UHF signals. It would have to be changed to like 1000 Mhz to pass through UHF.


2) There are splitters throughout the bldg that only go up to 450Mhz, which also block the UHF signals. Those too would have to be changed


3) The cable throughout the bldg is old RG59, which is ok for VHF, but the UHF signals are attenuated significantly. The cable shoud be RG6.


And tell your friend OTA is very much alive and well after the analog cut-off. If anything it is more popular now than before.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18797341
> 
> 
> In all honesty, I'm not surprised. They want to sell you another antenna whether you truly need one or not.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Actually I am disappointed. My aunt has a CRT TV. I just bought a DTVPAL DVR for her. It was on firesale for $150 at Sears.


Well the HD in the DVR can record 135 hours of SD programs and 35 hours of HD. So if CBS for example is putting out HD it will record in HD. Even if I use the coax to convert to analog signal. So this means less time to record and no benefit in picture quality.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18796619
> 
> 
> What does that mean? Cell phones?
> 
> 
> ty



Yes, but it's more than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC-M/H


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Hello all, first post.
> 
> 
> I live in a residential building in Manhattan.
> 
> Our building has/had an analog receiver on the roof which is now obsolete.
> 
> It distributed OTA free to anyone in the building.
> 
> 
> Is there a way we could do the same with HD signals?
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone know a resource where I could look up how many people are using OTA?
> 
> Had a disagreement with someone the other day who believes OTA generally died after the analog cut-off?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



first of whoever told you this lied to you or dont their elbow from their knee. all you need is a converter box to get your tv signals if you bought a tv recently, 2 years or less, then you just plug the wire in the back of set. let the tv scan for channels. end of story.


----------



## nycdigital09

looking for tropo 2nite looks good for rest of week http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html#hour24


----------



## NYCIcarus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18797359
> 
> 
> An antenna that was used 30 years ago can still be used today, provided it is a VHF/UHF combo antenna since Ch7,11,and 13 are VHF and the rest are UHF.
> 
> The only problems I can see are:
> 
> 
> 1) There is a distribution amp in your bldg that only goes up to like 450Mhz, which does not pass through the UHF signals. It would have to be changed to like 1000 Mhz to pass through UHF.
> 
> 
> 2) There are splitters throughout the bldg that only go up to 450Mhz, which also block the UHF signals. Those too would have to be changed
> 
> 
> 3) The cable throughout the bldg is old RG59, which is ok for VHF, but the UHF signals are attenuated significantly. The cable shoud be RG6.
> 
> 
> And tell your friend OTA is very much alive and well after the analog cut-off. If anything it is more popular now than before.




Thanks to all.

I'm not sure where the distribution is- I can say that building has probably 150-200 residences so I'd think there must be a lot of amplification needed.

Any easy way to check the cable type without ripping it out of the wall?


----------



## NYCIcarus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18797611
> 
> 
> first of whoever told you this lied to you or dont their elbow from their knee. all you need is a converter box to get your tv signals if you bought a tv recently, 2 years or less, then you just plug the wire in the back of set. let the tv scan for channels. end of story.



Haven't bought one for longer about 5 years.

What kind of converter is it?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18797611
> 
> 
> first of whoever told you this lied to you or dont their elbow from their knee. all you need is a converter box to get your tv signals if you bought a tv recently, 2 years or less, then you just plug the wire in the back of set. let the tv scan for channels. end of story.



The old Analog Antenna on roof will pull in HD direct to LCD HD TV?


Does he just use a Coax connection?


If it is anything like what my Aunt had (they Turned it off) You would use a coax cable from the wall?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCIcarus* /forum/post/18797774
> 
> 
> Haven't bought one for longer about 5 years.
> 
> What kind of converter is it?



What kind of TV do you have? LCD, Plasma, or CRT (old)


They need this info to help


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYCIcarus* /forum/post/18797770
> 
> 
> Thanks to all.
> 
> I'm not sure where the distribution is- I can say that building has probably 150-200 residences so I'd think there must be a lot of amplification needed.
> 
> Any easy way to check the cable type without ripping it out of the wall?




Usually the amp/equipment is in a machine room or closet on the last floor, or I've seen where they put all the equipment on the middle floor, then the cables get distributed from there



If you have a coax wall jack in your apt, you should be able to just remove the plate screws and look inside and see the cable.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18797369
> 
> 
> Actually I am disappointed. My aunt has a CRT TV. I just bought a DTVPAL DVR for her. It was on firesale for $150 at Sears.
> 
> 
> Well the HD in the DVR can record 135 hours of SD programs and 35 hours of HD. So if CBS for example is putting out HD it will record in HD. Even if I use the coax to convert to analog signal. So this means less time to record and no benefit in picture quality.



35 hours is still alot of time. That' the equal to about 5-6 VHS tapes. On the other hand if you can follow instructions and are handy with a screwdriver, go to the PALDVR forum and buy yourself a 1TB hard drive for about $75 (see the recommendations for drives there) and replace the 250 GB drive in the PALDVR. Then she will be able to record more shows than she is able to!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18798510
> 
> 
> 35 hours is still alot of time. That' the equal to about 5-6 VHS tapes. On the other hand if you can follow instructions and are handy with a screwdriver, go to the PALDVR forum and buy yourself a 1TB hard drive for about $75 (see the recommendations for drives there) and replace the 250 GB drive in the PALDVR. Then she will be able to record more shows than she is able to!



I said 35 I meant to say 30. It is good enough for my Aunt. I just hate using Space and get no picture benefit. I read the specs and the DVRPAL uses Western Digital HD. From my knowledge these are one of the best made drives. Used to be back in the Windows 95 era. Plus it sounds quite. Unlike my Cable DVR that is loud as hell.


You can not tell the DVR only to record in SD. What ever signal is coming over is what is recorded. I thought my old antenna only got SD (Terk Said) So I thought we had 135 hours.


I do not know why I believed TERK. Who told me old Analog antenna's are good for SD only and for HD you need a replacement.


Of course I believe people like TRIP in VA. He has much more experience then a Clerk who answers phones for TERK.


Also people here are so kind to share info and spend time to help others. No one here makes money from this board. Info is shared with kindness.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Of course I believe people like TRIP in VA. He has much more experience then a Clerk who answers phones for TERK.
> 
> 
> Also people here are so kind to share info and spend time to help others. No one here makes money from this board. Info is shared with kindness.
> 
> Last edited by keyboard21;



we all fall for false advertising everyday is not news, i fell prey to bs last year someone sold me uhf antenna that he said that it can pickup stations from 80 miles, it turn out not to be not so. its ok but not anywhere close to what he said. you get more wise as you get older. heh


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18799828
> 
> 
> we all fall for false advertising everyday is not news, i fell prey to bs last year someone sold me uhf antenna that he said that it can pickup stations from 80 miles, it turn out not to be not so. its ok but not anywhere close to what he said. you get more wise as you get older. heh



So any old antenna Even 10 years old can get HD? Amazing.


Why would terk lie?


----------



## SnellKrell

To sell product!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18799850
> 
> 
> To sell product!



I would expect that from a small or even BIG store. Not a manufacture who should know better.


There is no way they can make their antenna NON-hd compatible?


----------



## raj2001

Are you serious? Terk IS hype. I bought my last Terk antenna maybe 8 years ago and it was a DirecTV dish.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> here is no way they can make their antenna NON-hd compatible?



antennas work the same in hd sd analog there is no such things as hd antenna. they all work the same


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18801701
> 
> 
> antennas work the same in hd sd analog there is no such things as hd antenna. they all work the same



It just amazes me that guy I spoke to either lied or did not know. He said you would need terk 55 for HD. Man this kind of crapa makes me angry.



Thanks to all who set me straight


----------



## nycdigital09

brazil looks pretty good so far, i think either brazil argentina is gonna hoist the w cup


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18799914
> 
> 
> There is no way they can make their antenna NON-hd compatible?



Yes. COnnect it to a non HD TV and using that antenna you won't pick up any HD at all.


----------



## NYCIcarus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18797878
> 
> 
> What kind of TV do you have? LCD, Plasma, or CRT (old)
> 
> 
> They need this info to help



It's a CRT currently.

May be upgrading soon.


----------



## NYCIcarus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18798360
> 
> 
> Usually the amp/equipment is in a machine room or closet on the last floor, or I've seen where they put all the equipment on the middle floor, then the cables get distributed from there
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a coax wall jack in your apt, you should be able to just remove the plate screws and look inside and see the cable.



Cool, thanks.


Will check it out.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Cool, thanks.
> 
> 
> Will check it out Originally Posted by NYCIcarus



seems to me, if you buy a converter box and plug in the wire to box you shoud be good togo


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Yes. COnnect it to a non HD TV and using that antenna you won't pick up any HD at all.
> 
> __________________
> 
> Ryan, N2RJ



how is the preamp from england holding out, i want to try it. i heard is pretty expensive to get one. im having issues with channel wnyw fox5


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18802327
> 
> 
> It just amazes me that guy I spoke to either lied or did not know. He said you would need terk 55 for HD. Man this kind of crapa makes me angry.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to all who set me straight



Just adding my two cents, in:


I use a twenty year old Radio Shack twin bow-tie set top antenna placed by my window, and I recieved most of the local stations, including channel 7, 11, and 13 with no problems.




Danny


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18804149
> 
> 
> how is the preamp from england holding out, i want to try it. i heard is pretty expensive to get one. im having issues with channel wnyw fox5



Holding out pretty good actually. Much better performance than the CM7777.


Still not 100% on WNYW here but it is watchable now.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daniel Perales* /forum/post/18804973
> 
> 
> Just adding my two cents, in:
> 
> 
> I use a twenty year old Radio Shack twin bow-tie set top antenna placed by my window, and I recieved most of the local stations, including channel 7, 11, and 13 with no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Danny



Are you saying in HD? Just to clarify.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Holding out pretty good actually. Much better performance than the CM7777.
> 
> 
> Still not 100% on WNYW here but it is watchable now.
> 
> 
> Ryan, N2RJ



not trying to jinx you, I read in some other site that there is bug with that preamp, that

has alot of returns cos of catches fire, or just simply stops working. I'm happy your not having issues.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18806886
> 
> 
> Are you saying in HD? Just to clarify.



to really clarify i think the OP means digital


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18807476
> 
> 
> not trying to jinx you, I read in some other site that there is bug with that preamp, that
> 
> has alot of returns cos of catches fire, or just simply stops working. I'm happy your not having issues.



Yeah I heard about transients destroying it but they claimed to have fixed that with additional filtering. I'm not opening it until the warranty is up but it does seem pretty rock solid now.


----------



## johnosolis

The cafe on my block went out and bought a nice Panasonic Viera plasma HDTV so their customers could watch World Cup games.


Then they hooked it up to a dipole indoor antenna and one of those analog-to-digital converter boxes.


So, they are watching stretched out 480i letterboxed OTA 68-1 on a full 1080p set.


Why? Because they are morons.


When I told the woman who owns the place that she could get a picture that's a million times better just by removing the converter box, she said "No, we need that 'cause we don't pay for cable."


Someone please volunteer to come over here and slap her. I will hold her down for you.


----------



## raj2001

That only proves that the cable and satellite companies have successfully conditioned people to think that they need a box of some sort to get programming for their TVs.


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18806886
> 
> 
> Are you saying in HD? Just to clarify.



Yes.


My tv is a Mitsubishi WS-55511 55 inch RP HDTV with an intergrated HD tuner. I've been receiving all the digital stations with this antenna since I bought the set back in 2003.




Danny


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18809583
> 
> 
> The cafe on my block went out and bought a nice Panasonic Viera plasma HDTV so their customers could watch World Cup games.
> 
> 
> Then they hooked it up to a dipole indoor antenna and one of those analog-to-digital converter boxes.
> 
> 
> So, they are watching stretched out 480i letterboxed OTA 68-1 on a full 1080p set.
> 
> 
> Why? Because they are morons.
> 
> 
> When I told the woman who owns the place that she could get a picture that's a million times better just by removing the converter box, she said "No, we need that 'cause we don't pay for cable."
> 
> 
> Someone please volunteer to come over here and slap her. I will hold her down for you.



I don't do this often, but I would gladly volunteer. lol. Not because they hooked it up that way, but because they didn't at least let you show them the difference or give it a try to see.


----------



## multipath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/18812064
> 
> 
> I don't do this often, but I would gladly volunteer. lol. Not because they hooked it up that way, but because they didn't at least let you show them the difference or give it a try to see.



Incredibly enough, a lot of people can only tell the difference between 480i and 720p if the 2 pictures are side-by-side. In other words, if you turn off the TV, hook it up to the antenna, scan for channels, then tune to one of the found HD channels, the lady might say the picture looked better before, when the TV was hooked to the converter box.


----------



## icemannyr

Since WABC, WPIX & WNET went to VHF I've had problems tuning them in with an indoor HDTV antenna.

I did a rescan today and, though some if it might be due to weather conditions, WABC-DT is coming in clean.

WPIX and WNET can not get enough signal to be tuned in.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18802847
> 
> 
> brazil looks pretty good so far, i think either brazil argentina is gonna hoist the w cup



What about Holland, they are better than expected, perhaps the dark horse of this tournament?

But you are right Brasil and Argentina are really good.


----------



## raj2001

Is someone asleep at master control at WFUT-DT? They are currently showing windowboxed SD of the Slovenia-England game.


I ended up watching it on ESPN in SD 4:3 instead.


Maybe they're catering to people who connect SD converter boxes to their HD TVs.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/18814182
> 
> 
> Since WABC, WPIX & WNET went to VHF I've had problems tuning them in with an indoor HDTV antenna.
> 
> I did a rescan today and, though some if it might be due to weather conditions, WABC-DT is coming in clean.
> 
> WPIX and WNET can not get enough signal to be tuned in.



Where do you live?


----------



## R.F. Burns

I live 25 miles north of Manhattan and both WPIX & WNET (PIX is weaker than WNET) have signals which drop out ocasssionally. WABC is very strong and none of the NY UHF stations have any problems with dropouts.


I don't understand why WPIX (Tribune) hasn't filed for a power increase. WABC has a very good signal. According to what I've seen on the FCC website, WNJN is running 200 Kw ERP and yet they too have a marginal signal. I've limitd the amount of dropouts but their signal is fairly poor considering their location and transmit power.



On another note, last night WWOR's HD 1 channel was off the air. At the same time their SD second channel was solid, like usual. Too bad I'm not interested in their programing.


----------



## Trip in VA

WPIX would need an interference waiver from WTNH-10 who may not be willing to go for it.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18815346
> 
> 
> I live 25 miles north of Manhattan and both WPIX & WNET (PIX is weaker than WNET) have signals which drop out ocasssionally. WABC is very strong and none of the NY UHF stations have any problems with dropouts.



I've seen them drop out occasionally but I've attributed that to weather related electrical disturbances (lightning/static crashes). Otherwise they are fine. However when the clouds roll in, all the high VHF starts to tile occasionally. Checking the ham radios I hear the static crashes.


Unfortunately with VHF that's what comes with the territory.


----------



## yobiworld

Hope someone adds NHK WORLD to there sub channel


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18817654
> 
> 
> Hope someone adds NHK WORLD to there sub channel



If any channel was going to do it, it would be WMBC but I think they're just a bit filled right now.


----------



## raj2001

Maybe when the world comes to an end next year and harold camping sells the TV station they can put it on one of the 10 sub channels they have.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18817654
> 
> 
> Hope someone adds NHK WORLD to there sub channel



Considering nobody outside of Hawaii PBS carries NHK in the whole US (and that's only a few hours per day), I don't think this is likely.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18817884
> 
> 
> Maybe when the world comes to an end next year and harold camping sells the TV station they can put it on one of the 10 sub channels they have.



As a non-commercial license, the number of potential purchasers of WFME would be very limited. I would suspect Word of God Fellowship (AKA Daystar) to be the buyer in such a situation.


- Trip


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18815460
> 
> 
> WPIX would need an interference waiver from WTNH-10 who may not be willing to go for it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



What I find interesting is that WPIX has gone from a very low single bar (out of seven) to half scale on my less than properly calibrated strength meter. Considering that I have no problem getting into a NYC 440 repeater using a Yaesu VX5 from behind my house (which indicates that I have line of site into Manhattan) WPIX should not be an issue (and all of the NYC UHF's are full scale as is WABC, which is running substantially more power than PIX). I can only assume that there's work gioing on at Empire and it negatively effected WPIX. Yesterday evening WWOR's HD 1 was off the air while their HD 2 was fine. Nothing will be settled until early next year I suppose.


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18818082
> 
> 
> Nothing will be settled until early next year I suppose.



It certainly appears to be the case. However I expect the signals will be stronger during the next ratings period and likely a bit earlier when the new TV season starts. What I find most annoying is the lack of information provided by the stations. Generally the truth is beneficial, certainly to anyone trying to install or tune an antenna. I guess there is a disconnect between the engineering department and the folks that run the websites. Three thumbs down from my point of view.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/18819215
> 
> 
> It certainly appears to be the case. However I expect the signals will be stronger during the next ratings period and likely a bit earlier when the new TV season starts. What I find most annoying is the lack of information provided by the stations. Generally the truth is beneficial, certainly to anyone trying to install or tune an antenna. I guess there is a disconnect between the engineering department and the folks that run the websites. Three thumbs down from my point of view.



FYI, the New York DMA is rated constantly by Nielsen unlike smalltelevision markets that rely on Sweep Periods! So your trying to connect signal strength and rating periods - just doesn't work. Good try - no cigar!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18809583
> 
> 
> The cafe on my block went out and bought a nice Panasonic Viera plasma HDTV so their customers could watch World Cup games.
> 
> 
> Then they hooked it up to a dipole indoor antenna and one of those analog-to-digital converter boxes.
> 
> 
> So, they are watching stretched out 480i letterboxed OTA 68-1 on a full 1080p set.
> 
> 
> Why? Because they are morons.
> 
> 
> When I told the woman who owns the place that she could get a picture that's a million times better just by removing the converter box, she said "No, we need that 'cause we don't pay for cable."
> 
> 
> Someone please volunteer to come over here and slap her. I will hold her down for you.



I have tried in the past to educate people about similiar set-ups, but I just reach the conclusion that some people are not technically inclined and have no clue what's going on.


----------



## nycdigital09

this tv is downright herrendous to watch i recently was watchin a movie there, the macroblocking is so bad that youtube looks 3d they need to ditch estrella, or move to some other station.


----------



## yobiworld

Unlike so MANY other SUB channels estrella, has a purpose it's FOR SPANISH SPEAKING VIEWERS. What they should ditch is LIVEWELL,And WASA.


----------



## StudioTech

Huh? Explain how WASA should be 'ditched'?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> FOR SPANISH SPEAKING VIEWERS



2 many latino stations already i can count 6 im latino i dont watch half em lol


----------



## multipath

Way too many. Do they offer SAP or CC in English? They should.

They really should.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/18822016
> 
> 
> Huh? Explain how WASA should be 'ditched'?



PLEASE TELL ME YOU NOT SEROUS. They dont show ANYTHING OTHER THEN PAID PROGRAMING. Unless you like that


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/18815346
> 
> 
> I live 25 miles north of Manhattan and both WPIX & WNET (PIX is weaker than WNET) have signals which drop out ocasssionally. WABC is very strong and none of the NY UHF stations have any problems with dropouts.
> 
> 
> I don't understand why WPIX (Tribune) hasn't filed for a power increase. WABC has a very good signal. According to what I've seen on the FCC website, WNJN is running 200 Kw ERP and yet they too have a marginal signal. I've limitd the amount of dropouts but their signal is fairly poor considering their location and transmit power.



Just a data point, but here in Poughkeepsie, 64.1 miles north of the Empire State building and by 2nd Edge diffraction, WPIX is one of my stronger signals. It usually booms in at around 50-75% on the Signal Meter. Unfortunately, WNET has only about half the signal and WABC barely registers at all.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18827512
> 
> 
> PLEASE TELL ME YOU NOT SEROUS. They dont show ANYTHING OTHER THEN PAID PROGRAMING. Unless you like that



I didn't ask "why", I asked "how".


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18827512
> 
> 
> PLEASE TELL ME YOU NOT SEROUS. They dont show ANYTHING OTHER THEN PAID PROGRAMING. Unless you like that



There are a few stations like that in NYC DMA, WNJJ-LD, WASA-LP and even WRNN-DT (much of the time) comes to mind.


Also don't forget WFME-DT broadcasting Harold Camping all day every day.


But I'm sure there are people watching, so I guess that's why they stay on.


----------



## NervousCat

We need more people like this guy in our area. My roof climbing days are over.

http://www.siliconvalley.com/opinion/ci_15368990


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> There are a few stations like that in NYC DMA, WNJJ-LD, WASA-LP and even WRNN-DT (much of the time) comes to mind.
> 
> Originally Posted by raj2001 View Post 12057



you don't pick up wnju ch47 RF 36 there is a repeater a few miles from you ? maybe if you use a yagi antenna you can null it out


----------



## nycdigital09

Trip, did you know cbs is bringing back hawaii5-o just thought you may want to know :/


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18822137
> 
> 
> 2 many latino stations already i can count 6 im latino i dont watch half em lol



and the spanish OTA viewers are probably thinking there's too many english stations. bottom line is it's there because there's a demand for it or someone thinks they can make money from broadcasting whatever it is they are broadcasting!!!!!!!! just cause you don't watch it doesn't mean someone else isn't.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18834083
> 
> 
> and the spanish OTA viewers are probably thinking there's too many english stations.



Unlikely. Most Spanish speaking people I know watch the English language channels as well.




> Quote:
> bottom line is it's there because there's a demand for it or someone thinks they can make money from broadcasting whatever it is they are broadcasting!!!!!!!! just cause you don't watch it doesn't mean someone else isn't.



Yes that is true. Univision's newscasts are among the highest rated in the DMA. BUt I hate the attitude that X channel should get more priority because "ITS FOR SPANISH SPEAKING PEOPLE" or whatever. I don't think any group should have priority over one another. Let the market decide.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18833433
> 
> 
> you don't pick up wnju ch47 RF 36 there is a repeater a few miles from you ? maybe if you use a yagi antenna you can null it out



W36AZ (NJN) is a few miles away and smack dab between myself and the ESB. Same direction. Nulling it out aint happening. When they go digital that's another story. I think they're planning to go digital on channel 35 which would be good.


----------



## NervousCat

I've heard about SFN for years, especially as a solution to the multipath problems found in the concrete canyons of Manhattan ... here's yet another article on it.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/102354


----------



## Digital Rules

Can anyone verify if WMBC 63.1 is actually broadcasting?


Thanks!!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/18840089
> 
> 
> Can anyone verify if WMBC 63.1 is actually broadcasting?
> 
> 
> Thanks!!



what makes you think they aren't? may be tough to pick up in arlington, va though


----------



## Digital Rules




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18840131
> 
> 
> what makes you think they aren't? may be tough to pick up in arlington, va though



Thanks nyctveng,


Someone on another forum is having a hard time picking up this particular station. I was just verifying their status with someone in the New York metro area. And yes, it would be quite a challenge to get 63.1 in Arlington.


----------



## raj2001

They are still broadcasting.


----------



## J_ph

Any alternatives to "pitch pad" that can be found at a Lowes or Home Depot? something less gooey than a tube of roofing tar.


thanks


** I've moved this question to the Antenna hardware area,


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/18840363
> 
> 
> Thanks nyctveng,
> 
> 
> Someone on another forum is having a hard time picking up this particular station. I was just verifying their status with someone in the New York metro area. And yes, it would be quite a challenge to get 63.1 in Arlington.



if it helps i know of people that can pick it up in flushing queens (about 25 miles east of their transmitter) which is where most of their target audience is (koreans) much better coverage in nyc since they put up their dtv transmitter faaaaar from their COL newton.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18840457
> 
> 
> if it helps i know of people that can pick it up in flushing queens (about 25 miles east of their transmitter) which is where most of their target audience is (koreans) much better coverage in nyc since they put up their dtv transmitter faaaaar from their COL newton.



It's a good thing they moved too! They were killing us with overload here.


----------



## Digital Rules

Thanks *raj2001 & nyctveng*!!


----------



## NervousCat

Just to change the subject, I came across this newspaper article about Mobile HDTV.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business...,6946936.story


----------



## Ken H

A number of off topics have been removed. Politically related discussion is not permitted at AVS.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/18852114
> 
> 
> Just to change the subject, I came across this newspaper article about Mobile HDTV.
> 
> http://www.baltimoresun.com/business...,6946936.story



Not possible on VHF unless the devices are equipped with antennas much larger than the device itself AND then you have to find a "hot spot" immune from dynamic multipath.

There are hundreds of VHF stations...


----------



## raj2001

Wow 2 years? Try today. You can get ATSC M/H receivers today and a few stations are already broadcasting. In the NYC market there's WNBC and WPXN.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18854664
> 
> 
> WBNC



Any relation to WHDMI, WRJ-45, or WBananaPlug?










- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

He's must be well connected!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18854999
> 
> 
> Any relation to WHDMI, WRJ-45, or WBananaPlug?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



I prefer WDIN78 and WNC


----------



## nybbler

Anyone know of a place which will install a roof antenna in West Orange, NJ? I called one place and they couldn't believe I was serious, and then got upset with me when I insisted 7 and 13 were still on VHF (yeah, I maybe should have kept my mouth shut, but then I'd get the wrong antenna...).


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/18834083
> 
> 
> and the spanish OTA viewers are probably thinking there's too many english stations. bottom line is it's there because there's a demand for it or someone thinks they can make money from broadcasting whatever it is they are broadcasting!!!!!!!! just cause you don't watch it doesn't mean someone else isn't.




There are A LOT of Latin KIDS in New York. They need to be entertained just as much as the English speaking folk


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nybbler* /forum/post/18870419
> 
> 
> Anyone know of a place which will install a roof antenna in West Orange, NJ? I called one place and they couldn't believe I was serious, and then got upset with me when I insisted 7 and 13 were still on VHF (yeah, I maybe should have kept my mouth shut, but then I'd get the wrong antenna...).



I used Tom from ATB systems Inc. 973-927-3648. Mention Len in Randolph sent you and you might get the Len is afraid of Heights discount.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nybbler* /forum/post/18870419
> 
> 
> Anyone know of a place which will install a roof antenna in West Orange, NJ? I called one place and they couldn't believe I was serious, and then got upset with me when I insisted 7 and 13 were still on VHF (yeah, I maybe should have kept my mouth shut, but then I'd get the wrong antenna...).



I'm a bit jealous of your location. Unless you are on the wrong side of a hill, etc. you should get great reception for OTA!


----------



## nybbler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/18874237
> 
> 
> I'm a bit jealous of your location. Unless you are on the wrong side of a hill, etc. you should get great reception for OTA!



I'm on the wrong side of South Mountain, about halfway up. The really great locations for OTA are wasted on golf courses . However, with a 91XG with one segment removed (in the interest of stress-testing), I can get a decent signal from my deck on all UHF stations of interest. I figure a Winegard HD7698P on the roof ought to do the job; with all the signals in the same direction, why go smaller?


----------



## rcodey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nybbler* /forum/post/18874344
> 
> 
> I'm on the wrong side of South Mountain, about halfway up. The really great locations for OTA are wasted on golf courses . However, with a 91XG with one segment removed (in the interest of stress-testing), I can get a decent signal from my deck on all UHF stations of interest. I figure a Winegard HD7698P on the roof ought to do the job; with all the signals in the same direction, why go smaller?



I'm on the Western side of the mountain and can receive Philly TV. It might be worth a shot. I'm near Northfield Rd.


----------



## keyboard21

Well I finally got my first look at THIS TV at my aunts house. It looks Youtubish. Even on a CRT TV. Question:


WPIX has a total of how many megs to broadcast OTA?


What is the breakdown?


11.1 ----?


11.2 ----?


11.3----?



Seems LATV had more bandwidth?


Thanks guys


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18888850
> 
> 
> Well I finally got my first look at THIS TV at my aunts house. It looks Youtubish. Even on a CRT TV. Question:
> 
> 
> WPIX has a total of how many megs to broadcast OTA?
> 
> 
> What is the breakdown?
> 
> 
> 11.1 ----?
> 
> 
> 11.2 ----?
> 
> 
> 11.3----?
> 
> 
> 
> Seems LATV had more bandwidth?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys


 http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../73881-0_0.htm 


Also, WPIX is not broadcasting LATV anymore. They are broadcasting Estrella TV which is another Spanish language network.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18888859
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../73881-0_0.htm
> 
> 
> Also, WPIX is not broadcasting LATV anymore. They are broadcasting Estrella TV which is another Spanish language network.



I know that. I wonder when they did. What bandwidth they were getting? Why is this tv so low? How does it compared to what LATV got. And what estrella is getting now


----------



## raj2001

Check the link


It has the bandwidth from a TSReader output.


Basically the subs are variable but Estrella gets more.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18889038
> 
> 
> Check the link
> 
> 
> It has the bandwidth from a TSReader output.
> 
> 
> Basically the subs are variable but Estrella gets more.



Not sure how to read this?


Can you maybe tell me what each gives in terms of mgs of bandwidth?


11.1?


11.2?


11.3?


ty


----------



## raj2001

Scroll all the way to the bottom where it says "PID Usage chart"


PIX 11 - 14.33 Mbps

Estrella - 2.28 Mbps

This TV - 1.53 Mbps


But that was at that instant. the bitrate is variable, but generally This TV gets less


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Basically the subs are variable but Estrella gets more Originally Posted by raj2001



what a tragedy that is. pix finally has a worthy programs to watch, they don't give a horse---t about us.


----------



## nycdigital09

i dont watch pix anyway, im stickin to pbs only


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18889112
> 
> 
> Scroll all the way to the bottom where it says "PID Usage chart"
> 
> 
> PIX 11 - 14.33 Mbps
> 
> Estrella - 2.28 Mbps
> 
> This TV - 1.53 Mbps
> 
> 
> But that was at that instant. the bitrate is variable, but generally This TV gets less



WOW ty


now do you remember if LATV was always less then Estrella? This seems very unfair. 11.3 is not fun to watch with the low bandwidth.


Although I understand the NEED to keep 11.1 as pristine as possible. Both Subs should be the same. No favorites.


----------



## raj2001

Before This TV came along Estrella was around the same, probably a bit more.


I would imagine if I were the owners of Estrella I'd be pretty P.O.'ed if a newcomer just came along and slashed bandwidth without my consent. Tribune most likely has contractual obligations with Liberman broadcasting (Estrella) about picture quality and bitrate.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18892007
> 
> 
> Before This TV came along Estrella was around the same, probably a bit more.
> 
> 
> I would imagine if I were the owners of Estrella I'd be pretty P.O.'ed if a newcomer just came along and slashed bandwidth without my consent. Tribune most likely has contractual obligations with Liberman broadcasting (Estrella) about picture quality and bitrate.



WAS LATV around the same bandwidth as Estrella? Do you remember?


----------



## raj2001

I don't sorry. Maybe Trip knows, he probably has TSReaders going back that far.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18892041
> 
> 
> I don't sorry. Maybe Trip knows, he probably has TSReaders going back that far.



Ok Well how about this question:


What amount of bandwidth is good enough to stop the Yahoo effect?


----------



## raj2001

I don't know the answer to that question. My personal opinion is that there is really none unless you go to something like 5Mbps. There are a number of variables including what kind of images it is, such as high motion, lots of areas with nonmoving images etc.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18892077
> 
> 
> I don't know the answer to that question. My personal opinion is that there is really none unless you go to something like 5Mbps. There are a number of variables including what kind of images it is, such as high motion, lots of areas with nonmoving images etc.



I saw a few minutes of WARGAMES the other day. It looked like it was on youtube.


----------



## nybbler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcodey* /forum/post/18881576
> 
> 
> I'm on the Western side of the mountain and can receive Philly TV. It might be worth a shot. I'm near Northfield Rd.



I haven't tried pointing towards Philly; it might work as I've got a clearer shot to the west over the next ridge. But I'd rather have the NY stations; I just moved from the Philly area actually.


----------



## Trip in VA

I only keep archived data that is e-mailed to me (because I don't delete the e-mails). Data I collect myself gets tossed when it's updated.


I'll have to dig around and see if I can find some WPIX data, but I don't think I have any.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18893018
> 
> 
> I only keep archived data that is e-mailed to me (because I don't delete the e-mails). Data I collect myself gets tossed when it's updated.
> 
> 
> I'll have to dig around and see if I can find some WPIX data, but I don't think I have any.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip, you do not have to go that far. I was just curious if anyone remembered.


----------



## nycdigital09

im blown away by wliw ch 21 bandwith allocation to their main, and subs, they put out a real good picture though is only 480i. i have compared their create channel to wedw ch49 create. it makes look like thistv on the picture quality. oh why oh why does pix have 2 subs. dump estrella life would be great.


----------



## nycdigital09

oh i forgot, viva espana. go spaniards


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18894172
> 
> 
> im blown away by wliw ch 21 bandwith allocation to their main, and subs, they put out a real good picture though is only 480i. i have compared their create channel to wedw ch49 create. it makes look like thistv on the picture quality. oh why oh why does pix have 2 subs. dump estrella life would be great.



Our antenna can not get WLIW. Always wished they put a repeater in NYC. They have good PBS programing for my aunt. Heck I even watch it once in a while.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by keyboard21
> 
> Our antenna can not get WLIW. Always wished they put a repeater in NYC. They have good PBS programing for my aunt. Heck I even watch it once in a while.



they have quality programs to watch on wliw, i can watch their programming on all their subs all day, they have bbc news, all types of science shows, my favorite is travel shows also antique road show. just kidding about road show lol


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Our antenna can not get WLIW Originally Posted by keyboard21



you should get rid of that terk 55 is crappy antenna. is basically a half wave dipole with a small amplifier, get small 2 bay, it would help tremendously, i bulit a single bay from coat hangers, im amazed what this thing can do, i pick up all uhf and vhf not only that i get bridgeport ct channel when i turn a bit, also, wliw, i cant get new jersey, cos i have buildings blockin my los. you can make one yourself. i can help in you need. it won't cost you much 1 hanger a couple of bolts and nuts. thats it. took me 20 minutes to do mine. it works pretty good, that i use most of time, my yagi on the roof i havent used for awhile, only when theres tropo;


----------



## Keith

Some good condtions last night and this morning,

seems to be starting again now..


I'm located in Kings Park and I'm watching a TV

station from Road Island..


** If this is not the area to discuss this, please let me know

and I will delete this msg.. **


----------



## yobiworld

Damn are they ever bringing back latv. Miss having a music channel


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18896176
> 
> 
> you should get rid of that terk 55 is crappy antenna. is basically a half wave dipole with a small amplifier, get small 2 bay, it would help tremendously, i bulit a single bay from coat hangers, im amazed what this thing can do, i pick up all uhf and vhf not only that i get bridgeport ct channel when i turn a bit, also, wliw, i cant get new jersey, cos i have buildings blockin my los. you can make one yourself. i can help in you need. it won't cost you much 1 hanger a couple of bolts and nuts. thats it. took me 20 minutes to do mine. it works pretty good, that i use most of time, my yagi on the roof i havent used for awhile, only when theres tropo;



Thanks for the offer. Maybe in the future. Would your homemade antenna do better then the ClearStream C2 or DB2? Are those two not two bay? I tried those and got same exact reception. Same numbers and channels.


I think the problem is the antenna MUST be inside an apartment. Yes I know the law that says you can put it outside window. Aunt will not make waves. So no bother talking about that further.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

As of this morning, WLNY Channel 55 is now transmitting on UHF Channel 45-1 mapping to same, I assume from the ESB. Might be Brooklyn though as the signal is quite weak (67-72 on my Dishnet VIP722 DVR) and I have to rotate my antenna Southwest about 20-25 degrees. I am located in zip code 11021. I only received it once this spring from Riverhead on UHF 47.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just tried it - and 45-1 is coming in loud and clear!


----------



## raj2001

RabbitEars says its on the trump world tower. I'll pull out the laptop here at work and see if I get it.


It would be interesting to see if I can get it from home.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18900157
> 
> 
> RabbitEars says its on the trump world tower.



Thank you raj2001.

I'm not surprised as I'm subject to all kinds of multi-path issues. Most of the channels I don't want come in beautifully, and the ones that I do, specifically CBS & NBC are nothing but trouble.










I'll post a list at some point showing the channels I receive and their signal levels.


----------



## raj2001

Strange, I get the signal here but no video or audio.


----------



## multipath

So WLNY-55 has a transmitter at the Trump Tower? I have never been able to get their signal. Their info on Wikipedia does not mention any antennas in Manhattan. Is that new?


----------



## raj2001

I am not sure. I think it was a translator they had before and it went off air. No idea if/why they are bringing it back.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/18900099
> 
> 
> Just tried it - and 45-1 is coming in loud and clear!



For some reason mine is coming in on 45-3.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multipath* /forum/post/18900675
> 
> 
> So WLNY-55 has a transmitter at the Trump Tower? I have never been able to get their signal. Their info on Wikipedia does not mention any antennas in Manhattan. Is that new?



Not the Trump Tower - the transmitter is located at the Trump World Tower at 47th-48th Streets and First Avenue!


----------



## multipath

Sorry. That's what I meant. Trump World Tower.


So was that antenna there before? I have always received all UHF channels pretty well. However, I have never been able to get WLNY-55. And I still cannot receive it right now. I just tried it. If they are really transmitting from Trump World Tower, they must be using a weak signal. This is the first tine I cannot receive a UHF station transmitting from Manhattan.


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe this is the station's first transmission from this facility - it was awaiting Verizon interconnection.


According to Trip, both WBQM-LP and WKOB-LD are also licensed to this transmission location.


----------



## raj2001

Nada at home. Guess their directional antenna means no signal here. Oh well!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18900808
> 
> 
> For some reason mine is coming in on 45-3.



Sounds like they don't have any PSIP up on it.


The station used to be WLIG-LD 26 in Mineola, on a short tower at 1 kW aimed out toward the Atlantic. They changed the call sign to WLNY-CD and moved to Trump Tower on channel 45. This is definitely new.


It's a very directional antenna meaning New Jersey and people in Yonkers and up that way likely will not see it. I don't understand why it's as directional as it is, but I'm sure there's a reason.


- Trip


----------



## multipath

The fact that they are using a directional antenna explains why I can't get it.

BTW, is it still a mere 1kW?


----------



## Trip in VA

No, it's at 15 kW now, the maximum for a low-power digital. WASA-LD is at 15 kW but on a much less directional antenna.


Here's a link to what the directional pattern looks like:
http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...ation=0&erp=15 


And for those on good connections, here's a "real world" coverage map which takes into account terrain but not buildings:
http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1321795&map=Y 


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18902415
> 
> 
> Sounds like they don't have any PSIP up on it.
> 
> 
> The station used to be WLIG-LD 26 in Mineola, on a short tower at 1 kW aimed out toward the Atlantic. They changed the call sign to WLNY-CD and moved to Trump Tower on channel 45. This is definitely new.
> 
> 
> It's a very directional antenna meaning New Jersey and people in Yonkers and up that way likely will not see it. I don't understand why it's as directional as it is, but I'm sure there's a reason.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Do you know in which directing it is facing? North, South, East or West?


Just wondering if my Aunt can get this?


Also are there any Sub- channels to WLNY? Seems a waste not to have one sub? WLIW would be a great fit.


Although many here might not like re-runs of OPRAH, Dr. Phil ect. For people who are older. I think this is a great channel. Heck I even watch Judge Judy once in awhile. They do seem to have many infomercials.


It amazes me how FREE OTA is getting more and more choices and Basic cable is loosing channels.


I remembering asking you what NEW stations would becoming to NYC. You were completely taken by surprise by this move. lol Keeps you on your toes.


You give this board so much info. We all thank you Trip VA.


Now the only repeater I would like to see move to NYC is WLIW.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18902494
> 
> 
> No, it's at 15 kW now, the maximum for a low-power digital. WASA-LD is at 15 kW but on a much less directional antenna.
> 
> 
> Here's a link to what the directional pattern looks like:
> http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...ation=0&erp=15
> 
> 
> And for those on good connections, here's a "real world" coverage map which takes into account terrain but not buildings:
> http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1321795&map=Y
> 
> 
> - Trip



Not sure I know how to read this Image? Does this mean it is facing South East? Would seem wrong for NYC? Since that is facing away from NYC.











The other map shows Queens well in the GREEN area. Facing South is great for Queens and bad for NJ.
*PS Are they no longer showing their signal from Mineola? Is it JUST Trump world tower or is the Trump world tower just a repeater?*


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18902535
> 
> 
> Now the only repeater I would like to see move to NYC is WLIW.



Found this link on the WLIW website, http://www.wliw.org/about/digital-tr...pdate-and-faq/ . Note it states they are transmitting at full power from the ESB. Prior to June 12th, 2009, I received it with a weak signal from NYC and a very strong signal from Garden City. Now I get nothing from the ESB and a signal level that peaks at 72 if I'm lucky facing East-Southeast.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18902622
> 
> 
> Found this link on the WLIW website, http://www.wliw.org/about/digital-tr...pdate-and-faq/ . Note it states they are transmitting at full power from the ESB. Prior to June 12th, 2009, I received it with a weak signal from NYC and a very strong signal from Garden City. Now I get nothing from the ESB and a signal level that peaks at 72 if I'm lucky facing East-Southeast.



If WLIW was on ESB. We would get it with a 90 plus signal. I remember Trip or someone else stating they are putting out signal. ONLY from Long Island.

*Please be advised that Channels 13, 21, 7 and 11 are broadcasting at full power from the same antenna atop the Empire State Building.*


Is anyone getting 21 (WLIW) From ESB?


We get every station at 90 plus signa. Why not 21 at all if this is true? Why would we get 13, 7, and 11


----------



## multipath

from WLIW21:



> Quote:
> Several months ago, we attempted to obtain a waiver to increase the power for WLIW but were unable to obtain the increase for a number of reasons outside of our control. *Some of these problems have now cleared and we may be in a better position to increase our power some time in the future*, but we cannot be certain that this will resolve everyone's problems.



Nice! Eagerly awaiting.


----------



## mikepier

My signal strength meter says 50% for WLNY. This is 24 miles away on Wantagh, LI.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18902535
> 
> 
> Also are there any Sub- channels to WLNY? Seems a waste not to have one sub? WLIW would be a great fit.



Haha, I remember hearing that WLNY is planning to go HD in January 2011 or something like that, plus they have Mobile DTV going, so I'm not sure extra subchannels are going to be coming from WLNY.



> Quote:
> I remembering asking you what NEW stations would becoming to NYC. You were completely taken by surprise by this move. lol Keeps you on your toes.



In fairness, you asked me what new subchannels might be coming, not necessarily new stations. I knew WLNY-CD was being built but didn't consider it since the programming already existed via the main WLNY signal.



> Quote:
> You give this board so much info. We all thank you Trip VA.



Glad to help.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18902560
> 
> 
> Not sure I know how to read this Image? Does this mean it is facing South East? Would seem wrong for NYC? Since that is facing away from NYC.
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> The other map shows Queens well in the GREEN area. Facing South is great for Queens and bad for NJ.



You're correct. The bulk of the signal is going southeast for some reason. WLNY-CD is not the only station doing this; WPXO-LD 34 does the same thing.



> Quote:
> PS Are they no longer showing their signal from Mineola? Is it JUST Trump world tower or is the Trump world tower just a repeater?



Mineola is gone. Just Trump Tower.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18902644
> 
> 
> If WLIW was on ESB. We would get it with a 90 plus signal. I remember Trip or someone else stating they are putting out signal. ONLY from Long Island.
> 
> *Please be advised that Channels 13, 21, 7 and 11 are broadcasting at full power from the same antenna atop the Empire State Building.*



I don't know who at WNET/WLIW keeps putting out these releases about 21, but WLIW is most certainly *not* on Empire. I wish it was, but it is not.


And the power increase they are referring to is on the existing tower, so I'm not sure it will do much for anyone.


- Trip


----------



## yobiworld

So are they adding NEW STATIONS any time soon


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18902644
> 
> 
> If WLIW was on ESB. We would get it with a 90 plus signal. I remember Trip or someone else stating they are putting out signal. ONLY from Long Island.
> 
> *Please be advised that Channels 13, 21, 7 and 11 are broadcasting at full power from the same antenna atop the Empire State Building.*



There's no channel 21 on the common VHF antenna on ESB. Channel 21 cannot be multiplexed on that antenna.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Not the Trump Tower - the transmitter is located at the Trump World Tower at 47th-48th Streets and First Avenue!



that building is where derek jeter lives, i made a few deliveries there, i think he has a pad on 78th floor, I wonder if jeter watches ota. just a thought


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/18905817
> 
> 
> There's no channel 21 on the common VHF antenna on ESB. Channel 21 cannot be multiplexed on that antenna.



Excatly what I thought. I said we get ESB very well. All stations in the 90's So not getting 21 means it is not there.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18902494
> 
> 
> And for those on good connections, here's a "real world" coverage map which takes into account terrain but not buildings:
> http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1321795&map=Y
> 
> 
> - Trip



So basically 3/4 of their signal is broadcasted out into the sea. Hilarity.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/18904807
> 
> 
> So are they adding NEW STATIONS any time soon



I seriously doubt it, unless it's subchannels, mobile or reuse of existing channels.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18908276
> 
> 
> So basically 3/4 of their signal is broadcasted out into the sea. Hilarity.



Not really.


The graphic shows that because that's basically calculated signal that's "left over" at the coastal boundary and spreads out to sea very easily as represented under the computer model (no terrain obstructions). Their antenna is set to cover NYC.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...CA1321795.html 


You will see the same thing when looking at any computer model of any broadcast station that is located on or near a coastline or major lake.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18904075
> 
> 
> Haha, I remember hearing that WLNY is planning to go HD in January 2011 or something like that, plus they have Mobile DTV going, so I'm not sure extra subchannels are going to be coming from WLNY.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fairness, you asked me what new subchannels might be coming, not necessarily new stations. I knew WLNY-CD was being built but didn't consider it since the programming already existed via the main WLNY signal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct. The bulk of the signal is going southeast for some reason. WLNY-CD is not the only station doing this; WPXO-LD 34 does the same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mineola is gone. Just Trump Tower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know who at WNET/WLIW keeps putting out these releases about 21, but WLIW is most certainly *not* on Empire. I wish it was, but it is not.
> 
> 
> And the power increase they are referring to is on the existing tower, so I'm not sure it will do much for anyone.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Do you know when Mineola was turned off? What date?


Also why the move?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> So basically 3/4 of their signal is broadcasted out into the sea. Hilarity.



wliw signal is aimed towards connecticut, and nyc and the island not the atlantic ocean


----------



## nycdigital09

theyre still in mineola i still get them at 50-60 percent, i get refracted signal. as far as i know wlny still in riverhead 50 miles from me.


----------



## nycdigital09

i mean wlny is 50 miles from me.


----------



## nycdigital09

i noticed that 39-1 mast antenna is at top of citibank at court square i can see the antenna at top of building there is 2 of them one is facing south east towards brooklyn, the other antenna is pointed northwest towards new jersey, if anyone is interested


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18912052
> 
> 
> i noticed that 39-1 mast antenna is at top of citibank at court square i can see the antenna at top of building there is 2 of them one is facing south east towards brooklyn, the other antenna is pointed northwest towards new jersey, if anyone is interested



Do they ever broadcast anything on 39-1 besides the shopping channel?

All I see is the skyline picture with the test tone.


----------



## fidogs

HI All

I am new to AVS and I am looking for advise on how to switch to over the air signal.

I live in Bronx, NY.

I am basically looking for the necessary and latest equipment to begin receiving and recording over the air tv.

I currently own a HDTV antenna which i bought from monoprice, and i think works great.

i own 3 samsung HDTV, two of which receive the signal from the antenna but one does not. I tried connecting the hd antenna directly to the hdtv but not a single channel was picked up, unlike the other two which picked up almost 50 channels.

What do you guys think about the radioshack amplifiers, do they actually help?

how about DVR, External tuners for that one tv that does not receive any channels, which tuners do you recommend?


thanks for the time in advance.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fidogs* /forum/post/18913533
> 
> 
> HI All
> 
> I am new to AVS and I am looking for advise on how to switch to over the air signal.
> 
> I live in Bronx, NY.
> 
> I am basically looking for the necessary and latest equipment to begin receiving and recording over the air tv.
> 
> I currently own a HDTV antenna which i bought from monoprice, and i think works great.
> 
> i own 3 samsung HDTV, two of which receive the signal from the antenna but one does not. I tried connecting the hd antenna directly to the hdtv but not a single channel was picked up, unlike the other two which picked up almost 50 channels.
> 
> What do you guys think about the radioshack amplifiers, do they actually help?
> 
> how about DVR, External tuners for that one tv that does not receive any channels, which tuners do you recommend?
> 
> 
> thanks for the time in advance.



Welcome to the forum.

How are you splitting the signal? Are you using RG6 cable?

If one of the TV's can't pick up staions, take the TV giving you problems, and try it at the location of the good TV. If you still can't pick up anything, make sure you are searching for "antenna", and not "cable" on the TV menu.

If you can pick up stations, then somewhere down the line you have a bad connection.

As far as amps, it sounds like you don't need one being that you live close to Manhattan, and you can feed 2 TV's with no problems. What does the signal strength meter say for some channels?


----------



## multipath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18913619
> 
> 
> If one of the TV's can't pick up staions, take the TV giving you problems, and try it at the location of the good TV. If you still can't pick up anything, make sure you are searching for "antenna", and not "cable" on the TV menu.



To complement that:


1) Make sure this 3rd TV set has an HDTV tuner inside. Some sets are "HDTV-ready" as opposed to "HDTV's. If you have the former, instead of the latter, you will need to connect your antenna to a DTV converter box, then connect the box to this HDTV-ready set.


2) However, if you are sure that the problematic set is truly an HDTV one (like the other two TVs you have), then the problem with this 3rd set lies on its tuner. That is, its tuner is probably not as sensitive as the tuners in the other two TVs. In such situations, you need a better antenna.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multipath* /forum/post/18914920
> 
> 
> To complement that:
> 
> 
> However, if you are sure that the problematic set is truly an HDTV one (like the other two TVs you have), then the problem with this 3rd set lies on its tuner. That is, its tuner is probably not as sensitive as the tuners in the other two TVs. In such situations, you need a better antenna.



If the other 2 TV's get 50 channels fine with a strong signal, but the 3rd TV gets nothing (assuming he's testing it in the same location as the other 2 TVs) I would have to assume the antenna is fine, and rather the TV is the culprit.


To the OP, are all 3 tv's the same? What is the model # of the TV with the problem?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/18900613
> 
> 
> Strange, I get the signal here but no video or audio.



A few days after I first announced that I received WLNY on 45-1 I no longer receive any audio on my * Dishnet VIP722 DVR *, yet I do on my * Samsung SIR-T165 *, (which I use for DVHS recording) and also on any of my 4 * JVC HM-DT100U's *.


Also I rotated my antenna East-Southeast about 23 degrees East of where I receive WLIW and I'm receiving a stronger and more reliable signal than when pointing my antenna West towards the Trump Tower.


Can anyone please explain either of these issues? Thanks!!


----------



## nyctveng

explanation is dish makes crap products. i can pickup WLNY @ home & work on zenith & rca dtv boxes and my LG & Sony lcd tv tuners. cant get it on dish dtvpal box.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18915323
> 
> 
> A few days after I first announced that I received WLNY on 45-1 I no longer receive any audio on my * Dishnet VIP722 DVR *, yet I do on my * Samsung SIR-T165 *, (which I use for DVHS recording) and also on any of my 4 * JVC HM-DT100U's *.
> 
> 
> Also I rotated my antenna East-Southeast about 23 degrees East of where I receive WLIW and I'm receiving a stronger and more reliable signal than when pointing my antenna West towards the Trump Tower.
> 
> 
> Can anyone please explain either of these issues? Thanks!!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18915323
> 
> 
> A few days after I first announced that I received WLNY on 45-1 I no longer receive any audio on my * Dishnet VIP722 DVR *, yet I do on my * Samsung SIR-T165 *, (which I use for DVHS recording) and also on any of my 4 * JVC HM-DT100U's *.
> 
> 
> Also I rotated my antenna East-Southeast about 23 degrees East of where I receive WLIW and I'm receiving a stronger and more reliable signal than when pointing my antenna West towards the Trump Tower.
> 
> 
> Can anyone please explain either of these issues? Thanks!!



You know that reminds me. There was a Station with no sound. I believe it was LATV. First it had sound then it did not. Like what are experiencing. After people here wrote e-mails LATV had to correct something on their end. It took weeks or months? I forget. Then it was fixed. I am no expert. I think it was some sort of coding. Some Tuners get certain signals


Bottom line is. I would e-mail WLNY to let them know about the sound problem. In-case it is the same thing that LATV had a problem with.



Is the Dishnet VIP722 DVR anything like the DISHPAL DVR? I did not know they made another OTA box??


WOW this looks like everything we wanted the DISHPAL DVR to be.

*The New 727HD DVR by: MBC inc.- Watch internet channels Streams and record with this HD 727 DVR, Plus plug it straight in to your network, Stream movies internet iptv channels and much more, Works with any cable company's connection. "Wireless connections supported" No contract No credit check, No Monthly fee, a one time price of $289.99 thats it will hold up to 2Tb Hard drive USB thumb drive Flash drive and 6 different flash cards. Basically plug just about anything into it and it will view it or play it. more info call 888-255-4161*


Can you tell us. What you can do with this box. That the Dishpal DVR can not do? Thanks Very interesting


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18917535
> 
> 
> Bottom line is. I would e-mail WLNY to let them know about the sound problem. In-case it is the same thing that LATV had a problem with.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the Dishnet VIP722 DVR anything like the DISHPAL DVR? I did not know they made another OTA box??
> 
> 
> WOW this looks like everything we wanted the DISHPAL DVR to be.
> 
> *The New 727HD DVR by: MBC inc.- Watch internet channels Streams and record with this HD 727 DVR, Plus plug it straight in to your network, Stream movies internet iptv channels and much more, Works with any cable company's connection. "Wireless connections supported" No contract No credit check, No Monthly fee, a one time price of $289.99 thats it will hold up to 2Tb Hard drive USB thumb drive Flash drive and 6 different flash cards. Basically plug just about anything into it and it will view it or play it. more info call 888-255-4161*
> 
> 
> Can you tell us. What you can do with this box. That the Dishpal DVR can not do? Thanks Very interesting



I will place a phone call to WLNY next week and inform them. I do not know a thing about the DISHPAL DVR, however I was surprised at nyctveng comments about Dishnet receivers. Years ago I had the Dishnet 6000, which many owners had converted with firewire for DVHS recoding by 169time.com, (I never did cause the guy was arrogant and his prices ridiculous.) That and the VIP722 DVR had/have the most sensitive OTA tuners I have ever come across, picking up tropo and fringe signals both analog and digital that no other receiver I owned could. As far as I know every EchoStar-Dishnet receiver ever made had/has OTA tuners. I do not believe the audio issue with WLNY has anything to do with the VIP722, and I believe I also recall the LATV issue though I might have tuned to 11.2 only once or twice then deleted it. The only other info I can tell you about the VIP722 is that I don't own it, (a very reasonable $59 monthly rental) and Dishnet quoted me $100 something for the external Flash drive, which I wasn't interested in because I do all my HDTV archiving using DVHS. The VIP722 DVR has a 50-hour HD capacity and I believe they recently upgraded to a 100-hour HD capacity, but they demand that you sign another 2-year contract and I am done with that. (I won't be getting Fios for the same reason which will finally be available in my area in a few weeks.) Sorry I cannot tell you more.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18917953
> 
> 
> I will place a phone call to WLNY next week and inform them. I do not know a thing about the DISHPAL DVR, however I was surprised at nyctveng comments about Dishnet receivers. Years ago I had the Dishnet 6000, which many owners had converted with firewire for DVHS recoding by 169time.com, (I never did cause the guy was arrogant and his prices ridiculous.) That and the VIP722 DVR had/have the most sensitive OTA tuners I have ever come across, picking up tropo and fringe signals both analog and digital that no other receiver I owned could. As far as I know every EchoStar-Dishnet receiver ever made had/has OTA tuners. I do not believe the audio issue with WLNY has anything to do with the VIP722, and I believe I also recall the LATV issue though I might have tuned to 11.2 only once or twice then deleted it. The only other info I can tell you about the VIP722 is that I don't own it, (a very reasonable $59 monthly rental) and Dishnet quoted me $100 something for the external Flash drive, which I wasn't interested in because I do all my HDTV archiving using DVHS. The VIP722 DVR has a 50-hour HD capacity and I believe they recently upgraded to a 100-hour HD capacity, but they demand that you sign another 2-year contract and I am done with that. (I won't be getting Fios for the same reason which will finally be available in my area in a few weeks.) Sorry I cannot tell you more.



Just a stupid curious question. Why pay $59 per month for a $289 box? With what you pay in 5 months you can own it. Do you get Dish service with this? Or just OTA? I know nothing of DISH recievers other than the PAL. Sorry if the question is stupid lol


Thanks in Advance.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Not at all







I have the America Top 120 + Platinum HD package. It's a lot of bang for your buck, considerably cheaper than Directv which I cancelled last December and includes many channels that lame Cablevision refuses to carry, like HDNet, HDNet Movies, RetroHD, IndyHD, MGMHD, and most recently EPiXHD 1 and EPiXHD 2 which has beaten HBO with a number of premiere films like Iron Man, The Cove, and Star Trek (2009), and of course a terrific OTA tuner!!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18918081
> 
> 
> Not at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the America Top 120 + Platinum HD package. It's a lot of bang for your buck, considerably cheaper than Directv which I cancelled last December and includes many channels that lame Cablevision refuses to carry, like HDNet, HDNet Movies, RetroHD, IndyHD, MGMHD, and most recently EPiXHD 1 and EPiXHD 2 which has beaten HBO with a number of premiere films like Iron Man, The Cove, and Star Trek (2009), and of course a terrific OTA tuner!!



So do you save money by having OTA? Why not just get total dish package?


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Do I save money? No? I simply use the Dishnet DVR to archive programming that is unavailable on Cablevision and for time shifting. Any higher tier package, (with few exceptions), is just a duplication of the networks I already have on cable, and of course no firewire=no DVHS recording from Satellite.


----------



## nyctveng

DeadFormatLover, from my experience if the OTA station has missing PSIP/ virtual channel info, the DIsh DTV PAL box cannot tune the channel. i think some users here complained of losing WNYE 25 when they had issues with their PSIP. other threads that are more specific to DTV boxes and Dishnet service can probably give u more info. i would hope WLNY-CD will add PSIP and Dish equipment will be able to tune it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18917953
> 
> 
> I will place a phone call to WLNY next week and inform them. I do not know a thing about the DISHPAL DVR, however I was surprised at nyctveng comments about Dishnet receivers. Years ago I had the Dishnet 6000, which many owners had converted with firewire for DVHS recoding by 169time.com, (I never did cause the guy was arrogant and his prices ridiculous.) That and the VIP722 DVR had/have the most sensitive OTA tuners I have ever come across, picking up tropo and fringe signals both analog and digital that no other receiver I owned could. As far as I know every EchoStar-Dishnet receiver ever made had/has OTA tuners. I do not believe the audio issue with WLNY has anything to do with the VIP722, and I believe I also recall the LATV issue though I might have tuned to 11.2 only once or twice then deleted it. The only other info I can tell you about the VIP722 is that I don't own it, (a very reasonable $59 monthly rental) and Dishnet quoted me $100 something for the external Flash drive, which I wasn't interested in because I do all my HDTV archiving using DVHS. The VIP722 DVR has a 50-hour HD capacity and I believe they recently upgraded to a 100-hour HD capacity, but they demand that you sign another 2-year contract and I am done with that. (I won't be getting Fios for the same reason which will finally be available in my area in a few weeks.) Sorry I cannot tell you more.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Unfortunately it appears the DTV Pal is a poorly designed OTA tuner. There are quite a few locals that do not display PSIP info on the VIP722, but aside from WLNY it does not affect the video or the audio. I placed a call to Dishnet this afternoon and I'm awaiting a callback from their advanced tech department.


My other 2 previously mentioned OTA tuners have displayed PSIP info on WLNY since it began transmitting on 45-1.


----------



## hphase

WABC has already started ads saying that Time Warner may drop ABC-7 when their contract expires on Sept 2. They say "you have options" but DONT mention that you can actually receive ABC-7 OTA (and for free...)


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Contact * 7 On Your Side * and remind them. They're certainly not going to recommend Fios.


----------



## multipath

They want the viewers to call Time Warner and complain about the drop. They don't want people to watch ABC OTA. The whole point is to put people against TWC so that they (ABC) can keep their real bread and butter (TWC).


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18923850
> 
> 
> Unfortunately it appears the DTV Pal is a poorly designed OTA tuner. There are quite a few locals that do not display PSIP info on the VIP722, but aside from WLNY it does not affect the video or the audio. I placed a call to Dishnet this afternoon and I'm awaiting a callback from their advanced tech department.
> 
> 
> My other 2 previously mentioned OTA tuners have displayed PSIP info on WLNY since it began transmitting on 45-1.



Perhaps when compared to other Tuners with DVRs. However compared to the tuners in my 2 TVs it does a better job and it is also as good if not better than the tuners in the 4 different digital to analog converter boxes I have tested and tried.


So it is all relative. Personally I am really pleased with the tuner.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hphase* /forum/post/18923905
> 
> 
> WABC has already started ads saying that Time Warner may drop ABC-7 when their contract expires on Sept 2. They say "you have options" but DONT mention that you can actually receive ABC-7 OTA (and for free...)



Actually I heard a radio spot that did mention free OTA. Played Sun morning on WFAN.


----------



## AloEuro

45-1 and 45-3 WLNY CD 720x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo

at bottom right corner tv10/55

coming out of Mineola and or Riverhead (via TrumpTower ?)

signal level for -1 96-100 for -3 max. 100 locked

Seems to be CBC Affiliate lots of their reruns, but also good old like Matlock, newer Boston Legal, CSI, House etc


----------



## GSfromCT

Does anybody know if WCBS is possibly working on boosting their power?

My signal has been ok during the day, and last night when it should be stronger (after prime time), it was non-existent.

It has been this way for about a week on and off. I was wondering if they were lowering power to do work on their system.


----------



## SnellKrell

The station was supposed to ramp up to the new full ERP level by last month.


Have no idea if that ever occurred.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18902415
> 
> 
> Sounds like they don't have any PSIP up on it.
> 
> 
> The station used to be WLIG-LD 26 in Mineola, on a short tower at 1 kW aimed out toward the Atlantic. They changed the call sign to WLNY-CD and moved to Trump Tower on channel 45. This is definitely new.
> 
> 
> It's a very directional antenna meaning New Jersey and people in Yonkers and up that way likely will not see it. I don't understand why it's as directional as it is, but I'm sure there's a reason.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip, and everyone, I just spoke with WLNY's engineer at their Melville, L.I. facility, (631-777-8855). He mentioned many things (very quickly) that I am simply not technically versed enough to understand. Something about if a digital tuner does not recognize the PSIP as with the Dishnet VIP722 DVR it will simply default to 1 thru 10 and not be able to display it, (even though I mentioned their video is perfect with no audio, and many other channels have both video and audio and no PSIP on the VIP722). However he confirmed there is nothing they can do on their end to restore the video and/or audio on the DISH PAL tuner, nor the VIP722. He also said as far as their signal on 45-1, (there is no 45-3 now), their transmission is polarized both horizontal and vertical, whereas all or most others are just horizontal. Due to that, he additionally mentioned there are quite a few people reporting issues with WCBS 2-1 transmitting on UHF 33. I know I'm not relaying this correctly. Perhaps you or someone with greater technical knowledge than myself can call this gentleman.


While on the topic of WCBS, last year immediately after the digital transition I was able to reach an engineer named Mike at CBS and told him their signal was the only one coming off the ESB that I cannot consistently receive. He said they did a mobile field test driving on the Long Island Expressway all the way out to Suffolk County and found their signal was very strong all the way to Montauk Point. I found this hard to believe, and have never been able to reach anyone at CBS again, leaving many messages with no return calls.


Over the past few years, I have spoken with many of the chief engineers at the major NY networks, (one in particular I still speak with quite often), and they were all furious, claiming they have lost hundreds upon hundreds of viewers because the FCC did little to no field testing.


----------



## Trip in VA

Doesn't recognize it? The symptoms described only make sense if they're not transmitting any PSIP at all, which evidence via SiliconDust seems to support. I really need to see some TSReader on it; is there anyone who can receive it who is using a USB or PCI receiver in a 32-bit Windows computer?


I also don't understand the WCBS/WLNY-CD connection.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multipath* /forum/post/18924773
> 
> 
> They want the viewers to call Time Warner and complain about the drop. They don't want people to watch ABC OTA. The whole point is to put people against TWC so that they (ABC) can keep their real bread and butter (TWC).



exactly! wabc-tv may not care if u get their station via twc, rcn, satellite but their parent company would prefer you get it via a paid provider so that they also get subscriber fees for other channels they own such as disney, espn, abc family.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18928607
> 
> 
> Doesn't recognize it? The symptoms described only make sense if they're not transmitting any PSIP at all, which evidence via SiliconDust seems to support. I really need to see some TSReader on it; is there anyone who can receive it who is using a USB or PCI receiver in a 32-bit Windows computer?
> 
> 
> I also don't understand the WCBS/WLNY-CD connection.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hi Trip,


As I said, all this technical stuff and his explanation simply confused me, and I'm sure I didn't relay what I was told correctly, but I can tell you that I receive complete PSIP info on my 2 * Samsung SIR-T165's * and all 4 of my * JVC HM-DT100U's *.


The WCBS/WLYN connection simply came about because I brought up the topic about how frustrating it has been after spending nearly $2500 on 2 roof antennas with rotors & amps + installation and not being about to receive it. Then came his comments about WLNY's vertical transmission as being something that would aid reception of problematic channels.


Wish I could help you with the TSReader but I don't know how, sorry.


----------



## reddice

I was very active on this forum as you all know but now not so much because I rarely go on the computer and now I got a dock for my iPod Touch hooked up to my home stereo since most of the listing on it is from internet radio I don't undock it much. Anyway I can get channel 45 but it is very weak in the 40's. Still a stronger signal than that pathetic WNET which as you know comes in great some days and other days like today I can't get squat from a picture.


As for TWC might drop WABC it should not matter since it is the most powerful and easiest station to get at least for me. I am still peeved at Dish for dropping the Disney channels in HD.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18928785
> 
> 
> Hi Trip,
> 
> 
> As I said, all this technical stuff and his explanation simply confused me, and I'm sure I didn't relay what I was told correctly, but I can tell you that I receive complete PSIP info on my 2 * Samsung SIR-T165's * and all 4 of my * JVC HM-DT100U's *.



Interesting. SiliconDust usually chokes on bad PSIP and doesn't show anything, but it's treating WLNY-CD like it's transmitting none. I really will need to see TSReader data to know what's going on.


Maybe I'll call tomorrow. Have to see what my day is like.



> Quote:
> The WCBS/WLYN connection simply came about because I brought up the topic about how frustrating it has been after spending nearly $2500 on 2 roof antennas with rotors & amps + installation and not being about to receive it. Then came his comments about WLNY's vertical transmission as being something that would aid reception of problematic channels.



Okay, okay, I must have misread your post. I thought you meant he was trying to say that the WLNY-CD signal signing on was interfering with WCBS because of the vertical polarity.











> Quote:
> Wish I could help you with the TSReader but I don't know how, sorry.



It's not hard, just requires a USB or PCI tuner attached to a 32-bit Windows computer. Of course, without that hardware, it becomes very difficult.










- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18929395
> 
> 
> It's not hard, just requires a USB or PCI tuner attached to a 32-bit Windows computer. Of course, without that hardware, it becomes very difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



I've never touched a PC, strictly Mac, ouch!!!


BTW, your knowledge and website is a blessing!!!


THANK YOU!!!!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18930145
> 
> 
> I've never touched a PC, strictly Mac, ouch!!!



Haha, I'm a Linux guy and just keep Windows around for TSReader and the occasional game of Portal.



> Quote:
> BTW, your knowledge and website is a blessing!!!
> 
> 
> THANK YOU!!!!



Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad you find them to be useful.










- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18929395
> 
> 
> It's not hard, just requires a USB or PCI tuner attached to a 32-bit Windows computer. Of course, without that hardware, it becomes very difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



I use TSReader on my 64 bit windows 7 system with no problems. You just can't use as many different types of tuners as you can on 32 bit. Mu Hauppauge QAM tuners for example don't work on Win 7 x64. But my Pinnacle PCTV 800e (woot special) works just fine on windows 7 x64 with TSReader. The downside of course is that it doesn't see and decode QAM.


I don't have my laptop at work with me today but I'll try to get a reading tomorrow.


----------



## Trip in VA

I did not know that. I know I've had several people with 64-bit systems try it without success, so I've taken to just saying 32-bit.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18932392
> 
> 
> I did not know that. I know I've had several people with 64-bit systems try it without success, so I've taken to just saying 32-bit.
> 
> 
> - Trip



There's really something that you *don't know*???


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18930554
> 
> 
> Haha, I'm a Linux guy and just keep Windows around for TSReader and the occasional game of Portal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad you find them to be useful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



What website?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18933227
> 
> 
> What website?



The one which is in my signature and under my username at the left. http://www.rabbitears.info 


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18933227
> 
> 
> What website?



I assume you're talking about Trip's website - www.rabbitears.info


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18928607
> 
> 
> Doesn't recognize it? The symptoms described only make sense if they're not transmitting any PSIP at all, which evidence via SiliconDust seems to support. I really need to see some TSReader on it; is there anyone who can receive it who is using a USB or PCI receiver in a 32-bit Windows computer?
> 
> 
> I also don't understand the WCBS/WLNY-CD connection.
> 
> 
> - Trip



So I have TSReader running right now (trying to find a good spot for the antenna among all of the multipath and electrical noise here in midtown) and they look just fine. But the signal is pretty weak.


I'll see if I can get a clean capture but it's pretty difficult.


----------



## raj2001

So something else seems weird.


About 10 minutes ago they were almost all NULL packets, almost the full 19Mbps. Then all of a sudden the bitrates bumped up to about 3Mbps for video. Now it's about 3Mbps for video, 7Mbps for "ISO/IEC 13818-1 private_sections for program 6"


I have no idea what they are doing but it looks like they just did something.


There are two PMT PIDs by the way, one for program 3 and one for program 6.


----------



## Trip in VA

That program 6 looks a lot like a video feed that's not being listed in the PMT. If I was up there with my full version of TSReader, I'd see if I could get anything out of it.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Haha, I'm a Linux guy and just keep Windows around for TSReader and the occasional game of Portal
> 
> Originally Posted by Trip in VA



Trip do you know a tuner card that works decent with linux, i havent come across 1 yet.

if you let me know, txs


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18940754
> 
> 
> Trip do you know a tuner card that works decent with linux, i havent come across 1 yet.
> 
> if you let me know, txs



My DViCO FusionHDTV5-USB worked GREAT with Linux once the Bluebird firmware was stuck in /lib/firmware, but unfortunately, my heavy usage over three or four years wore out the USB port on the thing, so it no longer works.


I also have an AVerMedia USB stick which works decently, but the tuner is not as good as the DViCO was. (The DViCO had the actual LG 5th generation chip in it.)


I recently bought an Artec T18AR but it does not work with Linux at all. It's a shame too; all the individual chips on it have support in V4L as far as I can tell, but not in this specific configuration. I wish I could program; I don't think it would be too challenging to get it working. And the tuner in it is better, I think, than the DViCO.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

thx trip, i been thinking going with mythtv ubuntu supposedly has a kernel for it.


----------



## multipath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18941061
> 
> 
> My DViCO FusionHDTV5-USB worked GREAT with Linux once the Bluebird firmware was stuck in /lib/firmware, but unfortunately, my heavy usage over three or four years wore out the USB port on the thing, so it no longer works.



I have always wondered how USB tuners perform. Can they handle fullscreen hi-def properly? Without choppiness? Can they handle "time-shifting" while you multitask (browsing the web or photoshopping)? I know PCI tuners (with built-in encoders) can do it fine. Even in old computers.


----------



## AloEuro

wLNY CD 45-1,3 via TrumpTower is actually better reception than ESB for Astoria,Q-

LICity, Greenpoint and Williamsburg, because of the UN building and WmsbrgBridge the BrooklynHeights to Downtown should have weak signal.

25- 3(1) shows (13-3)Vme kiddies in spanish, of course


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/18948111
> 
> 
> wLNY CD 45-1,3 via TrumpTower is actually better reception than ESB for Astoria,Q-
> 
> LICity, Greenpoint and Williamsburg, because of the UN building and WmsbrgBridge the BrooklynHeights to Downtown should have weak signal.
> 
> 25- 3(1) shows (13-3)Vme kiddies in spanish, of course



What is on 45-3? 45-1 Is 10/55


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18949313
> 
> 
> What is on 45-3? 45-1 Is 10/55



Nothing because there is no 45-3, there is also no 25-3, and WLNY acts as if there's no issues with their transmission. Yet all of a sudden my Dish VIP722 DVR displays WLNY below 45-1, but still no sound and no PSIP info, in addition, now one of my 2 Samsung SIR-T165's only shows a yellow light indicating a strong signal, but there's no longer any picture or sound.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18950157
> 
> 
> Nothing because there is no 45-3, there is also no 25-3, and WLNY acts as if there's no issues with their transmission. Yet all of a sudden my Dish VIP722 DVR displays WLNY below 45-1, but still no sound and no PSIP info, in addition, now one of my 2 Samsung SIR-T165's only shows a yellow light indicating a strong signal, but there's no longer any picture or sound.



Did you e-mail WLNY and let them know that there is no sound? Many here did that with 11.3 and they fixed it.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Please view my post * #12169, from 07-19-10, 02:15 PM *. These folks are in denial. I really don't much care as I never watch WLNY, but one would think others are trying to?


----------



## yobiworld

wmbc ch 63.4 seems to be adding a new channel. Anyone have any ideas??


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18952586
> 
> 
> Please view my post * #12169, from 07-19-10, 02:15 PM *. These folks are in denial. I really don't much care as I never watch WLNY, but one would think others are trying to?



I must of missed that post. Does EVERYONE with the DISH PAL not get 45-1 with audio? Is it everyone with DISHPAL?


When I get a chance I will go to my Aunts house to check for you. Might be some weeks.


It is amazing that the main tec won't do anything. Did he say anything that there was SOUND before?



PS Do you have a e-mail for him?


PPS I almost forgot. Since I am in LI. The only two stations I got when I test the PAL DVR about 3 weeks or so ago. Was WLNY and some Spanish station. I got SOUND and VIDEO on Both. Something happened with the CHANGE TO NYC? imo Why did it work in my house with the DISH PAL DVR and the DISHPAL PLUS a year ago. Very strange indeed.


Did you try a total reset of your box? Did you confirm other DISHPAL users have same problem?


Just trying to help.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18953675
> 
> 
> I must of missed that post. Does EVERYONE with the DISH PAL not get 45-1 with audio? Is it everyone with DISHPAL?



I really do not know anyone but you with the DISH PAL nor the Dishnet VIP722 DVR. I can tell you that shortly after my last post yesterday for a few hours there was no audio or video on any of my 7 OTA receivers. Then last night it returned as it was.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18953675
> 
> 
> When I get a chance I will go to my Aunts house to check for you. Might be some weeks.



Great!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18953675
> 
> 
> It is amazing that the main tec won't do anything. Did he say anything that there was SOUND before?



Only that the issue was solely with the VIP722 even though I explained there's quite a few other locals that do not display PSIP info but the audio and video are fine.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18953675
> 
> 
> PS Do you have a e-mail for him?



No I don't, and I've learned sending e-mails to any of these guys gets less of a response than via phone. I continue to leave daily messages with a WCBS engineer and will do so until he gets tired enough to return my calls, ha ha! It would help if others called the WLNY engineer.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18953675
> 
> 
> PPS I almost forgot. Since I am in LI, the only two stations I got when I test the PAL DVR about 3 weeks or so ago was WLNY and some Spanish station. I got SOUND and VIDEO on Both. Something happened with the CHANGE TO NYC? imo Why did it work in my house with the DISH PAL DVR and the DISHPAL PLUS a year ago? Very strange indeed.



This is true, the one and only time this summer that I received 55-1 (47) I got both audio and video on all my receivers. I would think the obvious answer to your question is that they are having technical issues.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18953675
> 
> 
> Did you try a total reset of your box? Did you confirm other DISHPAL users have same problem?



Yes. No, because I don't know anyone. I'm still waiting for a callback from a Dishnet advanced rep re: the VIP722 DVR, however I was told a secondary company now handles technical issues with the DISH PAL receiver.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18953675
> 
> 
> Just trying to help.



Appreciated!!!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18956621
> 
> 
> I really do not know anyone but you with the DISH PAL nor the Dishnet VIP722 DVR. I can tell you that shortly after my last post yesterday for a few hours there was no audio or video on any of my 7 OTA receivers. Then last night it returned as it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only that the issue was solely with the VIP722 even though I explained there's quite a few other locals that do not display PSIP info but the audio and video are fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't, and I've learned sending e-mails to any of these guys gets less of a response than via phone. I continue to leave daily messages with a WCBS engineer and will do so until he gets tired enough to return my calls, ha ha! It would help if others called the WLNY engineer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, the one and only time this summer that I received 55-1 (47) I got both audio and video on all my receivers. I would think the obvious answer to your question is that they are having technical issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. No, because I don't know anyone. I'm still waiting for a callback from a Dishnet advanced rep re: the VIP722 DVR, however I was told a secondary company now handles technical issues with the DISH PAL receiver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciated!!!



When I find out I will let you know. Her place is far from me. So you will have to wait a week or so.


You can always ask others here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...99071&page=336 


I can tell you that FACT when I tested the DISHPAL DVR here at my house. I got WLNY from the LI tower. 3 weeks or so ago. It had video and AUDIO.


I have not tested it in Queens. YET. From NYC tower


I do not understand how that guy can blame your box. When the DISH boxes worked from the Melville, LI tower. It is clear to me that it is on their end.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18956621
> 
> 
> I really do not know anyone but you with the DISH PAL nor the Dishnet VIP722 DVR. I can tell you that shortly after my last post yesterday for a few hours there was no audio or video on any of my 7 OTA receivers. Then last night it returned as it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great!




So They fixed it? It is working on the pal also?


----------



## johnosolis

Has anyone else noticed that on Saturday, channel 39-1 was showing videos of Argentine singer Sandro. I watched a few because of their 60s campiness.


But, this was apparently a DVD someone popped in there at the station, since when the last video was over, the DVD went back to the main menu.


For over 24 hours now, 39-1 has been broadcasting the endless loop of the main menu of a DVD.


I guess it's not much different than the usual skyline with call letters.


How poorly run, strapped for cash and amateurish does a TV station have to be for this to happen?


They also have problems with their HSN feed which constantly cuts out for hours at a time.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18957685
> 
> 
> When I find out I will let you know. Her place is far from me. So you will have to wait a week or so.
> 
> 
> You can always ask others here:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...99071&page=336
> 
> 
> I can tell you that FACT when I tested the DISHPAL DVR here at my house. I got WLNY from the LI tower. 3 weeks or so ago. It had video and AUDIO.
> 
> 
> I have not tested it in Queens. YET. From NYC tower
> 
> 
> I do not understand how that guy can blame your box. When the DISH boxes worked from the Melville, LI tower. It is clear to me that it is on their end.



Will do! Thanks for the link, I'm going to go backwards on it and catch up. It would seem strange that WLNY would work in one location and not another. Though I doubt it, perhaps there is something wrong with my VIP722. It did piss me off that when I asked Dishnet for an upgrade to their new 100 hr. HD capacity VIP922, they said I would have to sign up for another 2-year contract. I might just call their bluff and cancel my sub unless they back down from that.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18957826
> 
> 
> So They fixed it? It is working on the pal also?



No, I just meant video and audio has returned on my JVC HM-DT100U's, neither on both my Samsung SIR-T165's, and video but no audio on my VIP722.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18958443
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that on Saturday, channel 39-1 was showing videos of Argentine singer Sandro. I watched a few because of their 60s campiness.
> 
> 
> But, this was apparently a DVD someone popped in there at the station, since when the last video was over, the DVD went back to the main menu.
> 
> 
> For over 24 hours now, 39-1 has been broadcasting the endless loop of the main menu of a DVD.
> 
> 
> I guess it's not much different than the usual skyline with call letters.
> 
> 
> How poorly run, strapped for cash and amateurish does a TV station have to be for this to happen?
> 
> 
> The only thing that cruddy channel means to me is that I can no longer receive WCTX 59-1 (39) from CT. occasionally. So many of these rinkey-dink channels operate as if they don't give a darn if anyone is watching. Ever check out the Satellite feed on 42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar, 3/4 of the time it's breaks up 75% of the time it's on air, (no problems with 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2, 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3 and 42-4 WKOB-LP SD4.) If someone is trying to watch this channel they'd have to pray they can see it before praying with it's content.
> 
> 
> They also have problems with their HSN feed which constantly cuts out for hours at a time.



The only thing that cruddy channel means to me is that I can no longer receive WCTX 59-1 (39) from CT. occasionally. So many of these rinkey-dink channels operate as if they don't give a darn if anyone is watching. Ever check out the Satellite feed on 42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar? 75% of the time it's breaking up, (no problems with 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2, 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3 and 42-4 WKOB-LP SD4.) If someone is trying to watch this channel they'd have to pray they can see it before praying with it's content.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18958955
> 
> 
> The only thing that cruddy channel means to me is that I can no longer receive WCTX 59-1 (39) from CT. occasionally. So many of these rinkey-dink channels operate as if they don't give a darn if anyone is watching. Ever check out the Satellite feed on 42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar? 75% of the time it's breaking up, (no problems with 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2, 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3 and 42-4 WKOB-LP SD4.) If someone is trying to watch this channel they'd have to pray they can see it before praying with it's content.



In the case of WKOB-LD, I guess they can pretend nobody's watching since chances are that nobody IS watching. Channel 2... ugh.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18958995
> 
> 
> In the case of WKOB-LD, I guess they can pretend nobody's watching since chances are that nobody IS watching. Channel 2... ugh.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Ha ha, tell ya what, WKOB-LD comes in better than WCBS 2-1 (33) from my location. Same thing with 3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD. If I'm lucky I get CBS once a week during evening hours. It's been stated here that once the sun sets, signals are stronger and more reliable, but here its the reverse with CBS. In addition 64-1 & 64-2 (25) WASA-LD comes in at a 100 signal strength. Like I said previously most if not all the channels I don't care about come in beautifully, and CBS and NBC are a constant battle. That's a real ... UGH!!!


Trip, do you have any inside info about what some have speculated here in regards to CBS increasing their signal strength from the ESB, or about a repeater being added somewhere on Long Island?


BTW, if anyone cares, this forum has now blocked me from posting alternate smilies.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18959452
> 
> 
> Ha ha, tell ya what, WKOB-LD comes in better than WCBS 2-1 (33) from my location. Same thing with 3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD.



You must be in quite the spot for it.



> Quote:
> If I'm lucky I get CBS once a week during evening hours. It's been stated here that once the sun sets, signals are stronger and more reliable, but here its the reverse with CBS.



I bet the signals are getting stronger and more reliable--specifically, WFSB-33 from Hartford. Thus it crushes WCBS.



> Quote:
> In addition 64-1 & 64-2 (25) WASA-LD comes in at a 100 signal strength. Like I said previously most if not all the channels I don't care about come in beautifully, and CBS and NBC are a constant battle. That's a real ... UGH!!!



WNBC too? That one's interesting and not what I would have expected.



> Quote:
> Trip, do you have any inside info about what some have speculated here in regards to CBS increasing their signal strength from the ESB, or about a repeater being added somewhere on Long Island?



I don't, unfortunately. I do know that they've upped the power once already, from 249 kW to 335 kW, and have a further permit to bump it to 426 kW. Honestly, at your distance, there's no reason you shouldn't get both it and WNBC just fine, depending on local building obstructions of course.


So what stations do you receive at your location?


- Trip


----------



## mikepier

I have 2 TV's in my house. One is a Mitsu 57" DLP, and the other a Zenith (LG) 42" LCD.


For WLNY, both tv's say "audio only", there is no video. And the signal strength is 50%.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Ha ha, tell ya what, WKOB-LD comes in better than WCBS 2-1 (33) from my location. Same thing with 3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD. If I'm lucky I get CBS once a week during evening hours. It's been stated here that once the sun sets, signals are stronger and more reliable, but here its the reverse with CBS. In addition 64-1 & 64-2 (25) WASA-LD comes in at a 100 signal strength. Like I said previously most if not all the channels I don't care about come in beautifully, and CBS and NBC are a constant battle. That's a real ... UGH!!!
> 
> 
> Trip, do you have any inside info about what some have speculated here in regards to CBS increasing their signal strength from the ESB, or about a repeater being added somewhere on Long Island?
> 
> 
> BTW, if anyone cares, this forum has now blocked me from posting alternate smilies.
> 
> DeadFormatLover is offline Report Post Reply With Quote



i know someone that lives in great neck, they get great reception of connecticut stations, maybe you should point your antenna towards ct see what happens


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18958952
> 
> 
> Will do! Thanks for the link, I'm going to go backwards on it and catch up. It would seem strange that WLNY would work in one location and not another. Though I doubt it, perhaps there is something wrong with my VIP722. It did piss me off that when I asked Dishnet for an upgrade to their new 100 hr. HD capacity VIP922, they said I would have to sign up for another 2-year contract. I might just call their bluff and cancel my sub unless they back down from that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just meant video and audio has returned on my JVC HM-DT100U's, neither on both my Samsung SIR-T165's, and video but no audio on my VIP722.



I guess I am confused. You have a VIP722, but do you also have a Dishpal?


IF not do these boxes share the same chip? If one gets no video/audio does that mean the other also does not?


----------



## multipath

TitanTV is showing new sub-channel under WNYE-25:

*NYC Life - IND - 25.3

NYC Gov - IND - 25.4

NYC World - IND - 25.5*


I have not performed a channel re-scan yet, so I cannot confirm whether the new subs exist.


----------



## Trip in VA

SiliconDust says not yet.


I thought 25-1 was already NYC Life?


- Trip


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multipath* /forum/post/18963104
> 
> 
> TitanTV is showing new sub-channel under WNYE-25:
> 
> *NYC Life - IND - 25.3
> 
> NYC Gov - IND - 25.4
> 
> NYC World - IND - 25.5*
> 
> 
> I have not performed a channel re-scan yet, so I cannot confirm whether the new subs exist.



Here in Brooklyn, I see 25-1 and 25-2. There are no others that I can find.


Their own website lists the same three subchannels as being available on various cable providers, but not OTA. (However, it also claims that NYC Drive, a/k/a 25.2, is not available OTA, which it clearly is.)


----------



## SnellKrell

Just did a re-scan and only 25.1 and 25.2 show up.


And 25.1 is NYC Life.


----------



## nyctveng

station that has a little budget, inexperience staff ,etc



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18963341
> 
> 
> Here in Brooklyn, I see 25-1 and 25-2. There are no others that I can find.
> 
> 
> Their own website lists the same three subchannels as being available on various cable providers, but not OTA. (However, it also claims that NYC Drive, a/k/a 25.2, is not available OTA, which it clearly is.)


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Please excuse me for not quoting each response.


Trip in VA - No I doubt it as I have never received WFSB-33 from Hartford since prior to the June 12th 2009 digital transition. I believe I know what's causing my issues with CBS and NBC. What I don't understand is why it is only affecting UHF 33 and 28. I live in a two-story complex. In 2006 I moved 2 condos over, (about a 50 to 60 ft. move), and simply extended the cables from my old unit to my new unit. Last September we had a roof replacement and everything had to be removed. In mid November I had 2 new antenna systems installed. My installer really screwed me. I pleaded with him to place both at the same 20 ft. height as before, however he only had one assistant, (it's a very steeply pitched roof), and no longer had the others guys he once had. He refused and only installed both at 15 feet. Had I realized the results, I would have told him to pack up and leave and would have hired someone else. Now, everything will need to be taken down and reinstalled, which will cost a substantial sum, (2 techs $125 per hour, and this would take at least 3.) These 2 networks were occasionally problematic back then as well. If you recall CBS was on UHF 56, NBC stayed the same on UHF 28, but nothing like this. My location is in a bit of a valley and as the foliage has grown in since spring and now summer things have gotten worse and worse but only with these 2 frequencies. Thanks for the CBS info, I left yet another message for their engineer yesterday, and will do so again today.


The signal strengths below are based on the optimum orientation from both my antenna systems, and the average of those using the Dishnet VIP722 and the JVC HM-DT100U. The Samsung SIR-T165 does not display numbers but only a grid.


Antenna 1: Winegard VHF/UHF 7084P + Winegard HDP 269 SquareShooter Pre-Amplifier for SquareShooter SS-1000.

Antenna 2: Winegard UHF 9095P + Winegard AP8700.
*

2-1 (33) CBS 0-72-88

3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD 74-81

4-1 (28) NBC 74-82

4-2 USports

4-4 OLYM

5-1 (44) myFOX 87-98

5-2 My9

7-1 (07) ABC 100

7-2 LivW

7-3 Eyewitness News Now

8-1 (10) WTNH (ABC) 68-72

9-1 (38) WOR My9 76-83

9-2 myFOX

11-1 (11) WPIX CW 100

11-2 Estrella TV

11-3 thisTV

13-1 (13) WNET 86-92

13-2 KIDS

13-3 V-ME

17.1 (17) WEBR-SD 73-76

17.2 WEBR-SD2

17.4 KRB

21-1 (21) WLIW-SD 70-72

21-2 Create

21-3 WORLD

25-1 (24) WNYE NYC TV Life 100

25-2 NYC TV Drive

31-1 WPXN (31) ION 90-96

31-2 qubo

31-3 IONLife

34-1 (34) WPXO 70-76

39-1 (39) WNYN-LD TVL 74

39-2 TVL

39-3 TVL

39-4 TVL

39-5 HSN

41-1 (40) WXTV UNI 100

41-2 WFUT-DT

42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar 79-83

42-2 WKOB-LP SD2

42-3 WKOB-LP SD3

42-4 WKOB-LP SD4

43-1 (42) WSAH 57-64

43-2 KCNS-TV

45-1 WLNY IND 68-76

47-1 (36) WNJU Telemundo 83-85

48-1 (48) WRNN-D1 79-81

48-2 WRNN-D2 Megatv

48-3 WRNN-D3 arirang

49-1 (49) WEDW (CPTV) 62-75

49-2 Create

50-1 (51) WNJN NJN1(PBS) 100

50-2 NJN2

50-3 Audio Only

54-1 (27) WTBY TBN 68-76

54-2 Church Channel

54-3 JCTV

54-4 Enlace USA

54-5 Smile Of A Child

63-1 (18) WMBC DT 87-90

63-2 CBS KOREAN

63-3 CGNTV

63-4 MHTV (Off-Air)

63-5 NTDTV World News

63-6 Azteca

64-1 (25) WASA-LD 96-100

64-2 WASA-LD

66-1 (29) WFME-TV Family Radio 86-88

66-2 WFME-FM

66-3 KEAR-AM

66-4 Foreign Language Programming

66-5 RTI (Radio Taiwan International)

66-6 NOAA (National Weather Service)

68-1 (30) WFUT Telefutura 90

68-2 WXTV UNI*


TROPO

2-1 (19) WGBH BST (PBS)

2-2 WGBH-S

3-1 (26) KYW PHL (CBS)

4-1 (30) WBZ BST (CBS)

5-1 (20) WCVB BST (ABC)

10-1 (34) WCAU PHL (NBC)

12-1 (12) WHYY DE. (PBS)

12-2 Y Arts

12-3 Y Info

16-1 (50) WNEP Scranton, PA. (ABC)

16-2 WNEP2

17-1 WPHL MyPL17 PHL

17-2 THIStv

18-1 (46) WUVN CT. (UNI)

20-1 (20) WTXX CT (CW)

20-2 thisTV

23-1 (22) WNJT NJ (PBS)

23-2 NJN2

23-3 Audio Only

24-1 (09) WEDH CT (CPTV)

24-2 Create

30-1 (35) WVIT CT (NBC)

30-2 WVITW

30-3 US

35-1 (35) WYBE MIND PHL (PBS)

35-2 globalMiND

35-3 MHz Worldview

35-4 MINDtst

41-1 (141) WNJJ Paterson, N.J.

44-1 (49) WVIA (PBS) Scranton, PA

44-2 Local

44-3 Create

52-1 (43) WNJT NJ (PBS)

52-2 NJN2

52-3 Audio Only

55-1 (47) WLNY Riverhead, NY (IND)

56-1 (45) WOLF-D Hazleton, PA (FOX)

56-2 PA's C

56-3 WQMY

57-1 (32) WPSG PHL. (CW)

58-1 (08) WNJT NJ (PBS)

58-2 NJN2

58-3 Audio Only

64-1 (12) WNAC R.I. (FOX)

67-1 WFTY Telefutura Smithtown, NY

67-2 WXTV UNI


keyboard21 - No I have never owned nor had ever even heard about the DISH PAL receiver until post #12152 by nyctveng. I finally spoke to an "advanced rep" at Dishnet yesterday. Talking to this woman was like talking to a wall. Our conversation ended when I told her she had no idea what she was talking about. Her explanation is not even worthy of posting here.


mikepier - Pretty funny, you get audio and I get video. If we combine our systems we might get somewhere, lol!! Again, only my 4 JVC HM-DT100U's receive both.


nycdigital09 - Prior to 2003 I lived at the highest location in Great Neck, which I was told was one of the highest points on Long Island and it was amazing what I received there both analog and digital especially from the WTC. As you can see above, my reception from CT. is now quite limited.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18964285
> 
> 
> Please excuse me for not quoting each response.
> 
> 
> Trip in VA - No I doubt it as I have never received WFSB-33 from Hartford since prior to the June 12th 2009 digital transition. I believe I know what's causing my issues with CBS and NBC. What I don't understand is why it is only affecting UHF 33 and 28. I live in a two-story complex. In 2006 I moved 2 condos over, (about a 50 to 60 ft. move), and simply extended the cables from my old unit to my new unit. Last September we had a roof replacement and everything had to be removed. In mid November I had 2 new antenna systems installed. My installer really screwed me. I pleaded with him to place both at the same 20 ft. height as before, however he only had one assistant, (it's a very steeply pitched roof), and no longer had the others guys he once had. He refused and only installed both at 15 feet. Had I realized the results, I would have told him to pack up and leave and would have hired someone else. Now, everything will need to be taken down and reinstalled, which will cost a substantial sum, (2 techs $125 per hour, and this would take at least 3.) These 2 networks were occasionally problematic back then as well. If you recall CBS was on UHF 56, NBC stayed the same on UHF 28, but nothing like this. My location is in a bit of a valley and as the foliage has grown in since spring and now summer things have gotten worse and worse but only with these 2 frequencies. Thanks for the CBS info, I left yet another message for their engineer yesterday, and will do so again today.
> 
> 
> The signal strengths below are based on the optimum orientation from both my antenna systems, and the average of those using the Dishnet VIP722 and the JVC HM-DT100U. The Samsung SIR-T165 does not display numbers but only a grid.
> 
> 
> Antenna 1: Winegard VHF/UHF 7084P + Winegard HDP 269 SquareShooter Pre-Amplifier for SquareShooter SS-1000.
> 
> Antenna 2: Winegard UHF 9095P + Winegard AP8700.
> *
> 
> 2-1 (33) CBS 0-72-88
> 
> 3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD 74-81
> 
> 4-1 (28) NBC 74-82
> 
> 4-2 USports
> 
> 4-4 OLYM
> 
> 5-1 (44) myFOX 87-98
> 
> 5-2 My9
> 
> 7-1 (07) ABC 100
> 
> 7-2 LivW
> 
> 7-3 Eyewitness News Now
> 
> 8-1 (10) WTNH (ABC) 68-72
> 
> 9-1 (38) WOR My9 76-83
> 
> 9-2 myFOX
> 
> 11-1 (11) WPIX CW 100
> 
> 11-2 Estrella TV
> 
> 11-3 thisTV
> 
> 13-1 (13) WNET 86-92
> 
> 13-2 KIDS
> 
> 13-3 V-ME
> 
> 17.1 (17) WEBR-SD 73-76
> 
> 17.2 WEBR-SD2
> 
> 17.4 KRB
> 
> 21-1 (21) WLIW-SD 70-72
> 
> 21-2 Create
> 
> 21-3 WORLD
> 
> 25-1 (24) WNYE NYC TV Life 100
> 
> 25-2 NYC TV Drive
> 
> 31-1 WPXN (31) ION 90-96
> 
> 31-2 qubo
> 
> 31-3 IONLife
> 
> 34-1 (34) WPXO 70-76
> 
> 39-1 (39) WNYN-LD TVL 74
> 
> 39-2 TVL
> 
> 39-3 TVL
> 
> 39-4 TVL
> 
> 39-5 HSN
> 
> 41-1 (40) WXTV UNI 100
> 
> 41-2 WFUT-DT
> 
> 42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar 79-83
> 
> 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2
> 
> 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3
> 
> 42-4 WKOB-LP SD4
> 
> 43-1 (42) WSAH 57-64
> 
> 43-2 KCNS-TV
> 
> 45-1 WLNY IND 68-76
> 
> 47-1 (36) WNJU Telemundo 83-85
> 
> 48-1 (48) WRNN-D1 79-81
> 
> 48-2 WRNN-D2 Megatv
> 
> 48-3 WRNN-D3 arirang
> 
> 49-1 (49) WEDW (CPTV) 62-75
> 
> 49-2 Create
> 
> 50-1 (51) WNJN NJN1(PBS) 100
> 
> 50-2 NJN2
> 
> 50-3 Audio Only
> 
> 54-1 (27) WTBY TBN 68-76
> 
> 54-2 Church Channel
> 
> 54-3 JCTV
> 
> 54-4 Enlace USA
> 
> 54-5 Smile Of A Child
> 
> 63-1 (18) WMBC DT 87-90
> 
> 63-2 CBS KOREAN
> 
> 63-3 CGNTV
> 
> 63-4 MHTV (Off-Air)
> 
> 63-5 NTDTV World News
> 
> 63-6 Azteca
> 
> 64-1 (25) WASA-LD 96-100
> 
> 64-2 WASA-LD
> 
> 66-1 (29) WFME-TV Family Radio 86-88
> 
> 66-2 WFME-FM
> 
> 66-3 KEAR-AM
> 
> 66-4 Foreign Language Programming
> 
> 66-5 RTI (Radio Taiwan International)
> 
> 66-6 NOAA (National Weather Service)
> 
> 68-1 (30) WFUT Telefutura 90
> 
> 68-2 WXTV UNI*
> 
> 
> TROPO
> 
> 2-1 (19) WGBH BST (PBS)
> 
> 2-2 WGBH-S
> 
> 3-1 (26) KYW PHL (CBS)
> 
> 4-1 (30) WBZ BST (CBS)
> 
> 5-1 (20) WCVB BST (ABC)
> 
> 10-1 (34) WCAU PHL (NBC)
> 
> 12-1 (12) WHYY DE. (PBS)
> 
> 12-2 Y Arts
> 
> 12-3 Y Info
> 
> 16-1 (50) WNEP Scranton, PA. (ABC)
> 
> 16-2 WNEP2
> 
> 17-1 WPHL MyPL17 PHL
> 
> 17-2 THIStv
> 
> 18-1 (46) WUVN CT. (UNI)
> 
> 20-1 (20) WTXX CT (CW)
> 
> 20-2 thisTV
> 
> 23-1 (22) WNJT NJ (PBS)
> 
> 23-2 NJN2
> 
> 23-3 Audio Only
> 
> 24-1 (09) WEDH CT (CPTV)
> 
> 24-2 Create
> 
> 30-1 (35) WVIT CT (NBC)
> 
> 30-2 WVITW
> 
> 30-3 US
> 
> 35-1 (35) WYBE MIND PHL (PBS)
> 
> 35-2 globalMiND
> 
> 35-3 MHz Worldview
> 
> 35-4 MINDtst
> 
> 41-1 (141) WNJJ Paterson, N.J.
> 
> 44-1 (49) WVIA (PBS) Scranton, PA
> 
> 44-2 Local
> 
> 44-3 Create
> 
> 52-1 (43) WNJT NJ (PBS)
> 
> 52-2 NJN2
> 
> 52-3 Audio Only
> 
> 55-1 (47) WLNY Riverhead, NY (IND)
> 
> 56-1 (45) WOLF-D Hazleton, PA (FOX)
> 
> 56-2 PA's C
> 
> 56-3 WQMY
> 
> 57-1 (32) WPSG PHL. (CW)
> 
> 58-1 (08) WNJT NJ (PBS)
> 
> 58-2 NJN2
> 
> 58-3 Audio Only
> 
> 64-1 (12) WNAC R.I. (FOX)
> 
> 67-1 WFTY Telefutura Smithtown, NY
> 
> 67-2 WXTV UNI
> 
> 
> keyboard21 - No I have never owned nor had ever even heard about the DISH PAL receiver until post #12152 by nyctveng. I finally spoke to an "advanced rep" at Dishnet yesterday. Talking to this woman was like talking to a wall. Our conversation ended when I told her she had no idea what she was talking about. Her explanation is not even worthy of posting here.
> 
> 
> mikepier - Pretty funny, you get audio and I get video. If we combine our systems we might get somewhere, lol!! Again, only my 4 JVC HM-DT100U's receive both.
> 
> 
> nycdigital09 - Prior to 2003 I lived at the highest location in Great Neck, which I was told was one of the highest points on Long Island and it was amazing what I received there both analog and digital especially from the WTC. As you can see above, my reception from CT. is now quite limited.



I Spoke to Dish once about the pal. They knew less then my dog. Their answer? GET a Brand new Satellite system.
























Dish cares about one thing. DISH SALES. Sorry you bought a Dishpal DVR sir. Sorry it does not work. Why not get a Satellite system for a great price.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18964285
> 
> 
> Please excuse me for not quoting each response.
> 
> 
> Trip in VA - No I doubt it as I have never received WFSB-33 from Hartford since prior to the June 12th 2009 digital transition. I believe I know what's causing my issues with CBS and NBC. What I don't understand is why it is only affecting UHF 33 and 28. I live in a two-story complex. In 2006 I moved 2 condos over, (about a 50 to 60 ft. move), and simply extended the cables from my old unit to my new unit. Last September we had a roof replacement and everything had to be removed. In mid November I had 2 new antenna systems installed. My installer really screwed me. I pleaded with him to place both at the same 20 ft. height as before, however he only had one assistant, (it's a very steeply pitched roof), and no longer had the others guys he once had. He refused and only installed both at 15 feet. Had I realized the results, I would have told him to pack up and leave and would have hired someone else. Now, everything will need to be taken down and reinstalled, which will cost a substantial sum, (2 techs $125 per hour, and this would take at least 3.) These 2 networks were occasionally problematic back then as well. If you recall CBS was on UHF 56, NBC stayed the same on UHF 28, but nothing like this. My location is in a bit of a valley and as the foliage has grown in since spring and now summer things have gotten worse and worse but only with these 2 frequencies. Thanks for the CBS info, I left yet another message for their engineer yesterday, and will do so again today.



Wow, I see. That is strange that it impacts those two signals and no others.



> Quote:
> [The unfathomable list of stations.]



Wow! It's a real shame you don't have a Windows machine. I'd love some data out of some of those stations you can receive.










- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

DeadFormatLover, with my xg91 aimed at hartford i can get wtxx at dusk, thistv pq, is solid, like i said earlier, my friend in great neck used to dx stations believe or not miami,fla on analog vhf stations.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18965032
> 
> 
> I Spoke to Dish once about the pal. They knew less then my dog. Their answer? GET a Brand new Satellite system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dish cares about one thing. DISH SALES. Sorry you bought a Dishpal DVR sir. Sorry it does not work. Why not get a Satellite system for a great price.



I didn't buy a Dishpal DVR, nor the VIP722. I rent the VIP722. Aside from the PSIP issue on a number of channels and no audio on WLNY, it is the best OTA tuner I've ever used. I knew I was in trouble when the rep I spoke with asked me, "What's PSIP?" I was then being feed info via a Dish engineer through her, and I told her she was relaying what he/she said incorrectly. I told her I would call back and reach someone who knew what they were talking about, and I will. I have spoken to some very knowledgeable people at Dish, but this woman was a clunker.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18965744
> 
> 
> Wow, I see. That is strange that it impacts those two signals and no others.
> 
> 
> Wow! It's a real shame you don't have a Windows machine. I'd love some data out of some of those stations you can receive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Even stranger is that I cannot figure out the atmospheric conditions that do allow CBS to come in. For example, last Tuesday, July 20, it was perfect as it is tonight while I'm DVHS'ing NCIS Los Angeles. In addition it was perfect last Friday, July 23, while taping Flashpoint. Of all my OTA receivers, only the VIP 722 consistently receives NBC, but even CBS pops in and out when the weather is severe.


What's Windows, ha ha!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18967240
> 
> 
> DeadFormatLover, with my xg91 aimed at hartford i can get wtxx at dusk, thistv pq, is solid, like i said earlier, my friend in great neck used to dx stations believe or not miami,fla on analog vhf stations.



I get WTXX quite often too, but it only qualified for my fringe list because it is not consistent. Somewhere I have a handwritten list containing well over 400 channels I received back in the analog days, once even channel 3 from Cuba during a hurricane here, which I video taped in VHS cause I figured no one would believe me!!


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18958443
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that on Saturday, channel 39-1 was showing videos of Argentine singer Sandro. I watched a few because of their 60s campiness.
> 
> 
> But, this was apparently a DVD someone popped in there at the station, since when the last video was over, the DVD went back to the main menu.
> 
> 
> For over 24 hours now, 39-1 has been broadcasting the endless loop of the main menu of a DVD.



They broadcasted the DVD menu from Saturday afternoon until Wednesday morning. But, good news! Somebody came in to work this morning (the janitor?) and hit play. So, we can all watch Sandor videos again, until the DVD player goes back to the menu again in a few hours.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/18969904
> 
> 
> They broadcasted the DVD menu from Saturday afternoon until Wednesday morning. But, good news! Somebody came in to work this morning (the janitor?) and hit play. So, we can all watch Sandor videos again, until the DVD player goes back to the menu again in a few hours.



AVS should have their own station. We would run it better


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> No I doubt it as I have never received WFSB-33 from Hartford since prior to the June 12th 2009 digital transition. I believe I know what's causing my issues with CBS and NBC Originally Posted by deadformatlover



about your reception problem with the 2 stations i think youre definitely havin co-channel interference, i have issues with cbs 33-1 specially in winter time, my picture breaks for a few seconds then is fine, then it starts doing again. have you tried indoor antenna for the 2 channels to see if is only your outdoor gear. like you i use hdp 269 high input preamp. i been using a diy antenna is 1 bay bowtie, i can get everything clear without any issues, vhf comes in like bandit. hopefully i can be of some help


----------



## DeadFormatLover

nycdigital09, as did Trip, thank you for helping me out with your hypothesis, but though I'm not positive, here's why I don't think co-channel interference is the problem I'm encountering. There's a woman a block away living in a traditional 5-story apartment building with a very old U/V antenna with no amp on it's roof that I would guess is at least at a 50-foot higher elevation than my antennas. It's connected using a tattered 300 ohm cable to one of those cheapo DTV receivers the government gave out coupons for, and she has no problem getting WCBS or WNBC at any time of the year. She does have problems receiving some of the low-power signals though. In regards to NBC, I cannot find any other network within my reception range that transmits on UHF channel 28. Finally, during the period when my old antennas were taken down before I installed my new ones, I did purchase the amplified Terk antenna only to discover they are ineffective in buildings which have Stucco wall construction as does my complex. I even called Terk and asked them why they do not state this anywhere on their website.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18956621
> 
> 
> I really do not know anyone but you with the DISH PAL nor the Dishnet VIP722 DVR. I can tell you that shortly after my last post yesterday for a few hours there was no audio or video on any of my 7 OTA receivers. Then last night it returned as it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only that the issue was solely with the VIP722 even though I explained there's quite a few other locals that do not display PSIP info but the audio and video are fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't, and I've learned sending e-mails to any of these guys gets less of a response than via phone. I continue to leave daily messages with a WCBS engineer and will do so until he gets tired enough to return my calls, ha ha! It would help if others called the WLNY engineer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, the one and only time this summer that I received 55-1 (47) I got both audio and video on all my receivers. I would think the obvious answer to your question is that they are having technical issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. No, because I don't know anyone. I'm still waiting for a callback from a Dishnet advanced rep re: the VIP722 DVR, however I was told a secondary company now handles technical issues with the DISH PAL receiver.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciated!!!



Ok as promised. I went today and we are GETTING 45-1 (CHANNEL 55) The signal strength is 73 to 83. We get VIDEO and SOUND with both the DTVPAL and the DTVPAL DVR. We get name of what is playing ,but no description. This might change when we get the TV GUIDE signal. NYC is a TVGUIDE market and we get CBS (where the TVGuide signal comes from) At 98 to 100%


I am still only getting PSIP info. I read that this box can take 24 to 36 hours to have the TVGUIDE info downloaded when you setup up DTVPAL DVR box for the first time.



Are you getting any AUDIO or NAME of what show is playing?



Hope this helps










*PS 45-1 comes from what building in NYC?*


----------



## mikepier

Don't know if this has been brought up before, but how come I don't see WLNY listed on any online TV guide listings like TitanTV, etc?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/18984078
> 
> 
> Don't know if this has been brought up before, but how come I don't see WLNY listed on any online TV guide listings like TitanTV, etc?



New stations take time to update on those websites. At least in the past that is what happened


----------



## nycdigital09

it can be overload that your pickin up those stations, if youre using a preamp like wg8700


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18984006
> 
> 
> Ok as promised. I went today and we are GETTING 45-1 (CHANNEL 55) The signal strength is 73 to 83. We get VIDEO and SOUND with both the DTVPAL and the DTVPAL DVR. We get name of what is playing ,but no description. This might change when we get the TV GUIDE signal. NYC is a TVGUIDE market and we get CBS (where the TVGuide signal comes from) At 98 to 100%
> 
> 
> I am still only getting PSIP info. I read that this box can take 24 to 36 hours to have the TVGUIDE info downloaded when you setup up DTVPAL DVR box for the first time.
> 
> 
> Are you getting any AUDIO or NAME of what show is playing?
> 
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PS 45-1 comes from what building in NYC?*



Thanks keyboard21!!


I get video, no audio no PSIP except below 45-1 it says WLNY on my Dishnet VIP722 DVR. I get everything fine including full PSIP info on my JVC DT100U, and nothing except a strong signal indication on my Samsung SIR-T165.


Transmitting from the Trump Tower.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18984516
> 
> 
> it can be overload that your pickin up those stations, if youre using a preamp like wg8700



Not sure if your response was for me, but if so, I have wondered about that. Perhaps Trip can shed some light on this? Do CBS and NBC NY have the strongest transmissions?


----------



## Trip in VA

I'll have to get back to you later in the day. Doing some moving. If you want to know what my new apartment's reception experience is like, though, go poke at the Charlottesville/Harrisonburg thread.










- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18984518
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transmitting from the Trump Tower.




That explains why the signal is less then the Major stations coming from ESB. Those we get in the high 90's Except for WPIX which is in the high 80's With the PAL Boxs anything over 60 is a good signal lock ,but since SIGNAL is like running water and always fluid and moving. It is safe to have 75 or above to have no breakups.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18985675
> 
> 
> I'll have to get back to you later in the day. Doing some moving. If you want to know what my new apartment's reception experience is like, though, go poke at the Charlottesville/Harrisonburg thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip. Good luck with your new move!! I guess my searching skills are not up to par as I could not locate the Charlottesville/Harrisonburg thread, but I performed a TV Signal Analysis for my location using your website. The results are fairly accurate though it doesn't quite match up to the signal strengths I'm receiving, (see my channel signal strength list), and doesn't seem to justify a potential overload on NY NBC, though perhaps NY CBS, http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9fbeafc558aeec . Again, I believe I simply need to raise my antennas as I'm surrounded by many tall trees. Last night I was again receiving CBS just fine and I'm beginning to see a correlation of what weather conditions are required for this to happen. I use the Weather Channel online. Simply add your zip code to this url. http://www.weather.com/outlook/health/general/hourbyhour./11021?from=36hr_fcstHourLink_health .


On another note, I have been very surprised at how little tropo there's been here throughout July considering the many record heat waves we've had.


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks. I'm having really good reception luck here. I'm going to see if a full-sized UHF antenna will get me the things I want from Richmond.


And I don't run TVFool.










Multipath definitely seems plausible in your situation. A peek at your signals with a spectrum analyzer would likely tell the story.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/18986598
> 
> 
> Thanks. I'm having really good reception luck here. I'm going to see if a full-sized UHF antenna will get me the things I want from Richmond.
> 
> 
> And I don't run TVFool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multipath definitely seems plausible in your situation. A peek at your signals with a spectrum analyzer would likely tell the story.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Going to Dinner in D.C?


----------



## nycdigital09

picked up a nice tropo last night, i got ion affiliate from new london ct. on freq 26.1 now that freq 45.1 is taken up here by tv 55. i cannot dx ct pbs 45.1 any longer. anyone here on this forum have used a hd homerun, i like to hear your experience. trip, i got a short yagi, if you like, is similar to ad xg43


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/18986629
> 
> 
> Going to Dinner in D.C?



?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/18989227
> 
> 
> anyone here on this forum have used a hd homerun, i like to hear your experience.



I ordered one off of Woot.com over the weekend, so hopefully I'll be able to let you know soon.











> Quote:
> trip, i got a short yagi, if you like, is similar to ad xg43



I'll have to see. I really just want to test an outdoor antenna here; I don't want to take an antenna if I don't know it's going to work.










- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

I never knew how many infomercials 55/10 had. Seems they have more then ION


----------



## nycdigital09

I ordered one off of Woot.com over the weekend, so hopefully I'll be able to let you know soon

Originally Posted by trip in va View Post 12234


trip, i been thinkin of getting one also, but the only thing that has me scratchin my head is will it work on my network, i have linksys gear, i need for someone to have actually used it. then they comment on it.

appreciate your input trip.


----------



## Hello Moe

Hello,


Last night, the night of Mon Aug 2, at about half past eleven, all my digital tv signals were lost.


I have a tv with built in digital tuner. I use over the air, no cable.


I scanned, and nothing was found. So after I assured myself no catastrophe has occurred, the A.M. radio was rolling smoothly along, I took my Converter Box which I had gotten with the coupon some time back and hooked the Co Axe into it and that into the tv.


Here is what occurred.


I regained the tv. I however did not have the clarity. I had lost the digital quality.



Then, today, when I rescanned without the converter box, the stations were found again. My digital had returned.



Last night, i tried several times, to no avail. I checked online and saw no news.


Here is my understanding, correct me if this is wrong.


Stations broadcast in digital. For instance, channel 11 or channel 5 broadcast in digital and I should be able to receive this digital signal without cable. Hence, over the air.


I saw some writings that the signals were being encrypted, but this should not have any effect on Over the Air, should it.


Also, what might have occurred last night. It was no fault of my own, I think.


Thank you in advance.


I will add I and my tv are located in the Bronx. If this has any bearing on anything.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> regained the tv. I however did not have the clarity. I had lost the digital quality.



welcome to ota forum, from your post what i gather is that you lost your ota channels, monday night was a weird night, some of my channels signal were kind of low, i think it was atmospherics playing with digital signal.


----------



## LenL

There is a lot of solar flare activity now which may impact reception:


Scientists said two minor storms flared on Sunday and are shooting tons of plasma directly at Earth which could create a geomagnetic storm and aurorae.


To read the rest:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/...ork-night-sky/


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Without knowing what type of antenna system Moe has, it's impossible to troubleshoot what went on. There's no way with a good outdoor antenna system a channel scan wouldn't map out anything. With an indoor antenna I could see that happening. My guess is that the logic system of his monitor simply locked up momentarily as evidenced by his OTA tuner receiving channels. First thing I do whenever a digital component problem occurs with anything is to reboot reboot reboot.


I did notice some strong propagation from Philly Monday night just around that time, but it disappeared very quickly. I did not experience any drop in signal strength with the local channels except for my usual problems with CBS & NBC.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hello Moe* /forum/post/19000148
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I regained the tv. I however did not have the clarity. I had lost the digital quality.



That's because the converter box only outputs 480i SD, unlike the HD you were receiving OTA.


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21, trip lives further south than dc, he is closer to richmond. youre still using terk tv55 stick, i think you can do better with c4, aim it out of your window you see what it can get.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19006153
> 
> 
> kb21, trip lives further south than dc, he is closer to richmond. youre still using terk tv55 stick, i think you can do better with c4, aim it out of your window you see what it can get.



Well I tried a C2 with the same results as the TERk 55. So why keep it? A C4 MIGHT do better?? My aunt is tired of antennas and wont let me put such a large antenna as the C4 in her apartment.


I did get her a new Dishpal DVR for firesale price of $150 at SEARS. With this she gets TVguide 7 days of Guide info. Also she can use just one remote for DVR and TV. Plus it has HDMI and Component connections. So it can grow with her.


With the new DVR Dishpal and the terk 55 she gets 36 channels including subs. Only 3 of them come in choppy and that is Koren stations 17-1, 2, 3

Everything else has 80 to 100 signal.


Channels she gets:


2-1

4-1, 2, 4

5-1, 2

7-1, 2, 3

9-1, 2

11-1, 2, 3

13-1 ,2 ,3

25-1, 2

31-1, 2, 3

34-1

39-1, 2, 3, 4, 5

41-1 ,2

45-1

47-1

68-1


17-1, 2, 4 (Very Choppy 60 signal)


What else would she need to get? What is she missing? Seems she gets most of what is offered. Of course I wish channel 21 had a NYC repeater. She gets more stations then some people on here. Overall I think she has enough. Of course I am the one who loves to tweak things. IF I had my way she would have 3 C4's and a preamp and a person 24/7 to stand there and turn the antenna to get get more stations. lol


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19008566
> 
> 
> Well I tried a C2 with the same results as the TERk 55. So why keep it. A C4 MIGHT do better?? My aunt is tired of antennas and wont let me put such a large antenna as the C4 in her apartment.
> 
> 
> I did get her a new Dishpal DVR for firesale price of $150 at SEARS. With this she gets TVguide 7 days of Guide info. Also she can use just one remote for DVR and TV. Plus it has HDMI and Component connections. So it can grow with her.
> 
> 
> With the new DVR Dishpal and the terk 55 she gets 36 channels including subs. Only 3 of them come in choppy and that is Koren stations 17-1, 2, 3
> 
> Everything else has 80 to 100 signal.
> 
> 
> Channels she gets:
> 
> 
> 2-1
> 
> 4-1, 2, 4
> 
> 5-1, 2
> 
> 7-1, 2, 3
> 
> 9-1, 2
> 
> 11-1, 2, 3
> 
> 25-1, 2
> 
> 31-1, 2, 3
> 
> 34-1
> 
> 39-1, 2, 3, 4, 5
> 
> 41-1 ,2
> 
> 45-1
> 
> 47-1
> 
> 68-1
> 
> 
> 17-1, 2, 4 (Very Choppy 60 signal)
> 
> 
> What else would she need to get? What is she missing? Seems she gets most of what is offered. Of course I wish channel 21 had a NYC repeater.



No channel 13 PBS and it's subs?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19008637
> 
> 
> No channel 13 PBS and it's subs?



Opps a typo Yes 13-1 ,2 ,3 at 97 signal


So make it 33 plus channels 17-1 -2, 3


----------



## Trip in VA

No 50 or 58?


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19009553
> 
> 
> No 50 or 58?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Nope. What are they PBS? 50 is PBS What is 58? I do not even see it on titan TV listings?



PBS she gets on 13.1 , 2 , 3



Where does 50 and 58 come from? NJ? Or NYC?


----------



## Trip in VA

They're both PBS from NJN. WNJN-51 and WNJB-8.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19010175
> 
> 
> They're both PBS from NJN. WNJN-51 and WNJB-8.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well I guess if I had a choice between losing one or two of the MAJORS AKA Cbs, NBC Ect


I would have to say who needs two more PBS stations when you have one. Remember Queens is far from NJ . That is why we do not get it.


You have to admit that 33 to 36 stations is pretty good.

*I posted this in the Dishpal DVR section. Maybe you can answer it since it is a TVGOS question


Just to let everyone know. I checked today and the TVGUIDE logo is on the top right of my guide. I guess it does take 24 plus hours when you first turn on the box. We get 7 days of programing not 8.


One thing I noticed. The channels that showed NAME of program ,but no description of the show that is playing. It is still the same way even after we got the TV guide info. You would think all that would of been fixed?


Does the DESCRIPTION come from Tvguide (TVGOS) or still PSIP?*


----------



## DeadFormatLover

I finally had not one but 2 lengthy conversations with a WCBS NY engineer today. Here's what I was told.


1. Without a doubt co-channeling is occurring with WFSB CBS CT UHF 33 and CBS NY UHF 33. WCBS NY has been granted permission from WFSB CBS CT to increase power to 426 kW. However this requires a thicker cable connected to the ESB transmitter and they have become very difficult to deal with. No ET as to if or when this will occur.


2. A translator on UHF 22 pointing north & east from Mineola using WLIW's facilities has been granted but could take 6-8 months to happen.


3. Dead pockets for WCBS NY are the Northshore of Long Island which includes Great Neck and many other townships + those further east, along with Bedford in Westchester County NY.


4. His antenna guru is Oded Bendov, * tvantenna.tv * who recommends viewers having these problems try the Winegard Pro-star HD-440 using no amplifier.


Finally in regards to Congress and the FCC taking back a portion of the Broadcast Spectrum he feels that they will succeed by selling off UHF frequencies 31 through 51. He stated this will create a co-channel nightmare and will eliminate many networks if and when it happens.


It is time we all pay more attention to * The FCC & Broadcast Spectrum * AVS Forum thread, and these particular posts * by Ionosphere on 07-23-10, 03:16 PM * and * by dkreichen1968 on 07-19-10, 02:37 PM *. Fight back!!!!


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 i meant the db4 antenna, not the c4 its not large you can set it up indoors, it has great gain like 12 db and picks up in wide area, not like yagi. i recently saw a used db4 at ebay go for $20. theyre like $50 spanking new. i think that would get you nj stations youre missin and wliw, maybe more. i heard good reviews for this antenna here is link http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/...V_antenna.html


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Two articles sent to me this morning by CBS NY.


From Jul 14, 2010 3:01 PM * Technical paper finds HD channel sharing to be viable in achieving FCC spectrum goals *


From Aug 5, 2010 9:48 AM * New approach seeks to optimize DTV spectrum allotment *


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19012144
> 
> 
> 
> From Jul 14, 2010 3:01 PM * Technical paper finds HD channel sharing to be viable in achieving FCC spectrum goals *
> 
> 
> From Aug 5, 2010 9:48 AM * New approach seeks to optimize DTV spectrum allotment *



How dare the FCC even call such obvious propaganda technical papers. If taking away another 120 MHz of prime UHF spectrum from the TV band made any sense they wouldn't have to lie about it.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/18984518
> 
> 
> Thanks keyboard21!!
> 
> 
> I get video, no audio no PSIP except below 45-1 it says WLNY on my Dishnet VIP722 DVR. I get everything fine including full PSIP info on my JVC DT100U, and nothing except a strong signal indication on my Samsung SIR-T165.
> 
> 
> Transmitting from the Trump Tower.



not sure what wlny is doing but i was at a location today where i was able to pickup wlny's full power on 47 and low power on 45. audio was fine on 47 but not 45.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19014060
> 
> 
> not sure what wlny is doing but i was at a location today where i was able to pickup wlny's full power on 47 and low power on 45. audio was fine on 47 but not 45.



Doesn't really matter *nyctveng*, it's more enjoyable without audio and the FCC and Congress will probably eliminate *45-1 WLNY*, along with many of these other worthless networks, right *Sammer*?

*

3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD

17.1 (17) WEBR-SD

17.2 WEBR-SD2

17.4 KRB

34-1 (34) WPXO

39-1 (39) WNYN-LD TVL

39-2 TVL

39-3 TVL

39-4 TVL

39-5 HSN

42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar

42-2 WKOB-LP SD2

42-3 WKOB-LP SD3

42-4 WKOB-LP SD4

43-1 (42) WSAH

43-2 KCNS-TV

48-1 (48) WRNN-D1

48-2 WRNN-D2 Megatv

48-3 WRNN-D3 arirang

54-1 (27) WTBY TBN

54-2 Church Channel

54-3 JCTV

54-4 Enlace USA

54-5 Smile Of A Child

63-1 (18) WMBC DT

63-2 CBS KOREAN

63-3 CGNTV

63-4 MHTV (Off-Air)

63-5 NTDTV World News

63-6 Azteca

64-1 (25) WASA-LD 96-100

64-2 WASA-LD

66-1 (29) WFME-TV Family Radio

66-2 WFME-FM

66-3 KEAR-AM

66-4 Foreign Language Programming

66-5 RTI (Radio Taiwan International)

66-6 NOAA (National Weather Service)
*


I can just hear the cable and satellite companies jumping for joy.


----------



## raj2001

Don't be so sure about TBN. When the cable company dropped TBN here due to (the cable company claiming ) the signal dropping out due to the DTV transition there was a loud uproar...


There's a reason TBN is one of the largest O&O networks in the US. Not everyone wants to watch reality shows and crime dramas.


Don't be sure about WMBC either. It's very popular among the Korean community and those who like Korean dramas.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> FCC and Congress will probably eliminate 45-1 WLNY, along with many of these other worthless networks, right Sammer?



what fcc should of done before the dtv transition, they should of kept uhf frequencies 35-69 and sold off the rest, this way, 1 antenna would be needed to get all tv reception, uhf also most uhf antennas are modeled to be most effective upper channels.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19014988
> 
> 
> what fcc should of done before the dtv transition, they should of kept uhf frequencies 35-69 and sold off the rest, this way, 1 antenna would be needed to get all tv reception, uhf also most uhf antennas are modeled to be most effective upper channels.



Not as simple as it sounds.


The higher frequencies are what they want. Smaller/shorter antennas. This is why they lopped off 52-69 (and 70-83 initially).


Also, VHF is mostly unsuitable for broadband as it is subject to noise and atmospheric variation (propagation) moreso than UHF.


----------



## nyctveng

they may be asked to move to another frequency at some point but license will not be taken away based on what u may think is worthless programming. and really do u want ur government to dictate what is worthwhile to go on the air?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19014647
> 
> 
> Doesn't really matter *nyctveng*, it's more enjoyable without audio and the FCC and Congress will probably eliminate *45-1 WLNY*, along with many of these other worthless networks, right *Sammer*?
> 
> *
> 
> 3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD
> 
> 17.1 (17) WEBR-SD
> 
> 17.2 WEBR-SD2
> 
> 17.4 KRB
> 
> 34-1 (34) WPXO
> 
> 39-1 (39) WNYN-LD TVL
> 
> 39-2 TVL
> 
> 39-3 TVL
> 
> 39-4 TVL
> 
> 39-5 HSN
> 
> 42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar
> 
> 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2
> 
> 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3
> 
> 42-4 WKOB-LP SD4
> 
> 43-1 (42) WSAH
> 
> 43-2 KCNS-TV
> 
> 48-1 (48) WRNN-D1
> 
> 48-2 WRNN-D2 Megatv
> 
> 48-3 WRNN-D3 arirang
> 
> 54-1 (27) WTBY TBN
> 
> 54-2 Church Channel
> 
> 54-3 JCTV
> 
> 54-4 Enlace USA
> 
> 54-5 Smile Of A Child
> 
> 63-1 (18) WMBC DT
> 
> 63-2 CBS KOREAN
> 
> 63-3 CGNTV
> 
> 63-4 MHTV (Off-Air)
> 
> 63-5 NTDTV World News
> 
> 63-6 Azteca
> 
> 64-1 (25) WASA-LD 96-100
> 
> 64-2 WASA-LD
> 
> 66-1 (29) WFME-TV Family Radio
> 
> 66-2 WFME-FM
> 
> 66-3 KEAR-AM
> 
> 66-4 Foreign Language Programming
> 
> 66-5 RTI (Radio Taiwan International)
> 
> 66-6 NOAA (National Weather Service)
> *
> 
> 
> I can just hear the cable and satellite companies jumping for joy.


----------



## raj2001

The plan is to give them an incentive (money) to consolidate.


Thing is, religious stations don't really (or are not supposed to) care about money as an incentive.


What I could see happening is that the FCC might try to force them off, it will go to court and the FCC will be told no on 1st amendment grounds. You have to be careful with religious stations. They are pretty powerful and are protected by the constitution.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Thing is, religious stations don't really (or are not supposed to) care about money as an incentive."


And there's a bridge in Brooklyn that can be had for good price!!!!!!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19015713
> 
> 
> "Thing is, religious stations don't really (or are not supposed to) care about money as an incentive."
> 
> 
> And there's a bridge in Brooklyn that can be had for good price!!!!!!



Hence my comment in brackets...


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19014647
> 
> 
> Doesn't really matter *nyctveng*, it's more enjoyable without audio and the FCC and Congress will probably eliminate *45-1 WLNY*, along with many of these other worthless networks, right *Sammer*?



I have no idea what stations and what TV markets (it won't be NYC) will go away. Taking away another 120 MHz of prime UHF spectrum from the TV Band is however a direct attack on local broadcasting diversity. As for what's worthless cable subscribers get to pay for cable networks they never watch. BTW if channels 31-51 do go away then Congress should really use some of the auction proceeds to remove Land Mobile from channels 14-20.


----------



## raj2001

Anyone experiencing issues with WNYW? It is completely gone today, both OTA and HD cable. The SD channel 5 is there on cable but that's because that's a direct feed out of Secaucus.


----------



## SnellKrell

Work is being done on the station's ESB facility.


----------



## petern

Good to hear that they're off-air right now. I picked today to play around with a new antenna and have been wondering what I was doing wrong to receive every channel from that location except WNYW.


Hope they get it fixed in time for baseball.


----------



## dvdchance

9-2 is also out. When did it go off the air? Early this morning? afternoon?


I'm sure there are plenty of Yankee fans who will be upset if it isn't back up by 4pm for the Fox Yanks - Red Sox game.


----------



## raj2001

9-2 and 5-1 are the same channel (RF 44).


No idea when it went out but it's off air now and was off air this morning around 8ish. No signal whatsoever as far as I can tell from my tuners and signal analyzer.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19016815
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are plenty of Yankee fans who will be upset if it isn't back up by 4pm for the Fox Yanks - Red Sox game.



It's available in SD on 5-2 (RF 38 WWOR) and cable since most cable systems have fiber hookups from secaucus.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19016815
> 
> 
> 9-2 is also out. When did it go off the air? Early this morning? afternoon?
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are plenty of Yankee fans who will be upset if it isn't back up by 4pm for the Fox Yanks - Red Sox game.



I noticed it at 8 this morning.


----------



## dvdchance

This is actually a time when having the SD feeds of 5 and 9 on each others main signal paid off.


I don't have cable myself, but the OP said he wasn't getting 5.1HD on his cable system so I'm guessing not all get the feed from fiber.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19016850
> 
> 
> This is actually a time when having the SD feeds of 5 and 9 on each others main signal paid off.
> 
> 
> I don't have cable myself, but the OP said he wasn't getting 5.1HD on his cable system so I'm guessing not all get the feed from fiber.



I don't think the HD feed on our cable system is fiber. The SD one I know for a fact is. A telltale sign is that it has the same graphics as 5-2 on the WWOR transmitter but not the graphics saying "WWOR-TV carrying WNYW" or similar. Cablevision and others may see the same (our cableco shares feeds with cablevision).


SE Cable has a huge tower on hamburg mountain about 1200' ASL. That's about 300-400' higher than me. They don't have that for nothing!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19010196
> 
> 
> Well I guess if I had a choice between losing one or two of the MAJORS AKA Cbs, NBC Ect
> 
> 
> I would have to say who needs two more PBS stations when you have one. Remember Queens is far from NJ . That is why we do not get it.



NJN is more than just PBS. They also carry local NJ features and NJ news. In effect they are a Govt subsidized station but independently operated.


With all of the screaming of bloody murder from Sen. Menendez and others when Fox TV wanted to combine the WWOR and WNYW newsrooms and put them in NYC I don't expect our state to willingly give up NJN.


The reason for the repeaters is also pretty simple - None of the stations cover the whole state. There's WNJN (*N*orth, covers NYC as well) WNJB (New *B*runswick/North Central Jersey), WNJ*S* (Camden/*S*outh Jersey/Philly/Delaware) and WNJT (*T*renton).


Trenton was the first to sign on, followed by Camden, Montclair (originally WNJM) then New Brunswick.


There are also a couple of translators to serve areas that are shadowed by mountains or simply too far. W36AZ is out here in Sussex (hamburg mountain) and there are a few others. I think they have construction permits for digital but so far I haven't seen digital signals from any of the translators.


----------



## mikepier

For WNYW to do work on their transmitter during a Yankee/Red Sox game is bad timing. I'm sure they could have picked another time


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19017693
> 
> 
> For WNYW to do work on their transmitter during a Yankee/Red Sox game is bad timing. I'm sure they could have picked another time



What makes you think that the station chose this time to do work?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19017693
> 
> 
> For WNYW to do work on their transmitter during a Yankee/Red Sox game is bad timing. I'm sure they could have picked another time



S**t happens. You don't chose the time for s**t to happen


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19017061
> 
> 
> NJN is more than just PBS. They also carry local NJ features and NJ news. In effect they are a Govt subsidized station but independently operated.
> 
> 
> With all of the screaming of bloody murder from Sen. Menendez and others when Fox TV wanted to combine the WWOR and WNYW newsrooms and put them in NYC I don't expect our state to willingly give up NJN.
> 
> 
> The reason for the repeaters is also pretty simple - None of the stations cover the whole state. There's WNJN (*N*orth, covers NYC as well) WNJB (New *B*runswick/North Central Jersey), WNJ*S* (Camden/*S*outh Jersey/Philly/Delaware) and WNJT (*T*renton).
> 
> 
> Trenton was the first to sign on, followed by Camden, Montclair (originally WNJM) then New Brunswick.
> 
> 
> There are also a couple of translators to serve areas that are shadowed by mountains or simply too far. W36AZ is out here in Sussex (hamburg mountain) and there are a few others. I think they have construction permits for digital but so far I haven't seen digital signals from any of the translators.



Wasn't channel 58 going to put a transmitter in NYC then backed out due to economic times? It is a shame we would of got the signal then.


I might try a DB4 one day. If I can convince her. I highly doubt it. I think she is DONE and happy with what she has. I am the one who likes to tweak things


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19017728
> 
> 
> What makes you think that the station chose this time to do work?



I assumed this was pre-planned maintenance work. If this was some kind of technical issue that happened without warning, that's a different story.


----------



## SnellKrell

For the most part, stations transmitting from the ESB try to do planned maintenance work after midnight/1 a.m. and back on the air early morning.


----------



## CopRock




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19018068
> 
> 
> I assumed this was pre-planned maintenance work. If this was some kind of technical issue that happened without warning, that's a different story.



If it was pre-planned maintenance it was an incredibly stupid time to do it, I also noticed that 5-2 carried the game letterboxed instead of the usual full 4:3, so it must have been pre-planned.

Luckily I caught the game in HD thru my RCN cable... found out about the OTA interruption when family and friends call me with their tv problems & I'm not even an expert!


----------



## raj2001

It doesn't appear to be pre-planned maintenance work at all.


MyFoxNY is saying that they have "a technical issue" which seems to indicate that this was not planned.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CopRock* /forum/post/19018104
> 
> 
> If it was pre-planned maintenance it was an incredibly stupid time to do it, I also noticed that 5-2 carried the game letterboxed instead of the usual full 4:3, so it must have been pre-planned.



Not necessarily. Changing the aspect ratio is pretty simple to do. They may have done that because of the OTA viewers that switched to WWOR and wanted to watch the game in widescreen anyway.



> Quote:
> Luckily I caught the game in HD thru my RCN cable... found out about the OTA interruption when family and friends call me with their tv problems & I'm not even an expert!



My cableco (Service Electric) I believe uses the OTA feed for HD, or at least if they have a fiber feed they weren't using it. I do know they're using fiber for SD and that did not go down.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CopRock* /forum/post/19018104
> 
> 
> If it was pre-planned maintenance it was an incredibly stupid time to do it, I also noticed that 5-2 carried the game letterboxed instead of the usual full 4:3, so it must have been pre-planned.
> 
> Luckily I caught the game in HD thru my RCN cable... found out about the OTA interruption when family and friends call me with their tv problems & I'm not even an expert!



I noticed in my bedroom SD tube TV with no STB, just direct cable in from Cablevision, the game was letterboxed on Ch 5. I can't recall if it was ever like that, I always thought it was full screen.


What they should have done is shown the game in HD on 9.1. Its not like MY9 has any award winning programming on Saturday afternoons anyway.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19018197
> 
> 
> I noticed in my bedroom SD tube TV with no STB, just direct cable in from Cablevision, the game was letterboxed on Ch 5. I can't recall if it was ever like that, I always thought it was full screen.



Cablevision's SD feed is the same as the 5-2 feed minus the WWOR station ID.



> Quote:
> What they should have done is shown the game in HD on 9.1. Its not like MY9 has any award winning programming on Saturday afternoons anyway.



OTA viewers make up 10% of the total viewership (of all stations according to the FCC) and most cable viewers were apparently not affected. I doubt that even if they were allowed to do this that they'd have done it.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19018032
> 
> 
> Wasn't channel 58 going to put a transmitter in NYC then backed out due to economic times? It is a shame we would of got the signal then.



Maybe it was that, maybe it was other things. Doesn't bother me either way. I get both WNJN and WNJB.



> Quote:
> I might try a DB4 one day. If I can convince her. I highly doubt it. I think she is DONE and happy with what she has. I am the one who likes to tweak things



My wife LOVES antennas... as long as they are not on the house! That's ok though, I have a nice antenna tower, with a couple more for other antennas hopefully to come...


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> My wife LOVES antennas... as long as they are not on the house!
> 
> Originally Posted by raj2001 View Post



raj youre one lucky guy.










i use to get njt from trenton clear as bell from queens, actually it was because i picked it up that station that i got hooked on ota, antennas so forth. in the late 80's they use to show i dont if you remember a series from 60's called the fugitive, david janssen stared in it. well they were showing, somehow i got a hold of rs yagi u75 i think, i pointed towards montclair, and new brunswick, those 2 would not come in clear or lot of ghosting, when i picked up trenton, it was so clear like with no ghosting, later on i bought a cm 4251 i starting to dx the rest is history.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19018248
> 
> 
> Maybe it was that, maybe it was other things. Doesn't bother me either way. I get both WNJN and WNJB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife LOVES antennas... as long as they are not on the house! That's ok though, I have a nice antenna tower, with a couple more for other antennas hopefully to come...



Do the neighbors love the tower to?


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19016820
> 
> 
> 9-2 and 5-1 are the same channel (RF 44).
> 
> 
> No idea when it went out but it's off air now and was off air this morning around 8ish. No signal whatsoever as far as I can tell from my tuners and signal analyzer.



Ch 44 was indeed out on Saturday due to an incident at Empire. It should be back in most areas now. If it's still out where you live, please let me know your Zip Code.


Thanks,


dtv4u


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Ch 44 was indeed out on Saturday due to an incident at Empire. It should be back in most areas now. If it's still out where you live, please let me know your Zip Code.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> dtv4u



ch5 is not coming in for me, also i noticed that wasa is out rf25 also, first time i seen you here. welcome aboard


----------



## nycdigital09

sorry zip code 11369


----------



## nycdigital09

last night was good for some dtv dxing picked up wgbh a pbs out of boston rf 19. wcvb rf 22 drop by for a few mins. according to dxinfo this week we're in for alot of tropo.


----------



## nyctveng

fox has been letterboxing baseball games for a month now.u may notice the graphics are now on the outer part of the screen rather than center . and no moving a game last minute to another channel wouldnhave been out of the question. keep in mind 90% of viewers watch fox hd on cable or satellite


r


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19018197
> 
> 
> I noticed in my bedroom SD tube TV with no STB, just direct cable in from Cablevision, the game was letterboxed on Ch 5. I can't recall if it was ever like that, I always thought it was full screen.
> 
> 
> What they should have done is shown the game in HD on 9.1. Its not like MY9 has any award winning programming on Saturday afternoons anyway.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> keep in mind 90% of viewers watch fox hd on cable or satellite



not here i watch fox baseball ota, directv hd is not as good, when i watch the two i can notice difference

big time. hope they keep showing in letterbox format


----------



## dvdchance

I'm still not getting any signal on RF44, Ch 5-1 and 9-2.


nycdigital, I think the poster meant fox baseball in SD has been leterboxed for a month on 5-2.


----------



## SnellKrell

Both 5.1 and 9.2 were back early this morning when I checked - and

at usual SNR % level.


Just re-checked - coming in just fine!


----------



## dvdchance

They must be broadcasting now at a very reduced level. I usually get RF44 in the 95% range, and now it can barely lock to the signal. It will appear for a flash to a 55% or so level then go to 0%. This is on my DTVPal DVR.


I'm about 17 miles or so southwest from ESB.


----------



## johnosolis

Tell me 68-1 is not broadcasting SPY KIDS 3-D in 3D HD tonight.


Is it even possible to broadcast 3-D HD OTA?


It hasn't been done yet, has it?


Does anyone know?


----------



## DTVintermods

No 3D OTA capability for the US HDTV standard


----------



## LenL

As of 2:30 PM Sunday still NO reception for me.


----------



## SnellKrell

I live less than 2 miles from ESB - although my SNR reading is at its usual level for 44, with many have problems, I assume that the station is running at a reduced power level.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19019002
> 
> 
> I noticed that wasa is out rf25.



Damn, now I'll have to watch the Red Sox-Yankees on ESPN, True Blood and Hung on HBO instead of the * Montel Williams HealthMaster Blender *. * LOL!! *


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/19020020
> 
> 
> Tell me 68-1 is not broadcasting SPY KIDS 3-D in 3D HD tonight.
> 
> 
> Is it even possible to broadcast 3-D HD OTA?
> 
> 
> It hasn't been done yet, has it?
> 
> 
> Does anyone know?



i dont think it has been done but why would u think its not possible? but i dont think any network would be dumb enough to broadcast something 99.9% of their potential audience can't watch which is why the few programmers that do have the occasional 3D event do it on a seperate channel on cable/satellite.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19020507
> 
> 
> I live less than 2 miles from ESB - although my SNR reading is at its usual level for 44, with many have problems, I assume that the station is running at a reduced power level.



5.1 coming in pegged on the signal meter as usual for me, 25 miles out on Long Island.


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CopRock* /forum/post/19018104
> 
> 
> If it was pre-planned maintenance it was an incredibly stupid time to do it, I also noticed that 5-2 carried the game letterboxed instead of the usual full 4:3, so it must have been pre-planned.
> 
> Luckily I caught the game in HD thru my RCN cable... found out about the OTA interruption when family and friends call me with their tv problems & I'm not even an expert!



All Fox network baseball games (and NFL games to come) on SD platforms (like 5.2) are now NORMALLY transmitted in letterbox format. This is controlled by a descriptor called AFD, which sometimes cable or satellite systems fail to interpret correctly, which can result in a game being 4:3. But if all is working properly, the games should be in letterbox on SD platforms.


And no, the weekend issues with 5.1 were not planned and were, in fact, beyond the station's control.


dtv4u


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19019002
> 
> 
> ch5 is not coming in for me, also i noticed that wasa is out rf25 also, first time i seen you here. welcome aboard



I've been around for 10 years (check my join date), but lurk more than I post. Looks like I only average about 8 posts a year!


I do have knowledge of the weekend incident, but cannot share it at this time. People to the south and west of Empire are probably experiencing reception issues and will until additional repairs are made, pending arrival of parts. However, I would think you would be solid in western Queens. I'll have to pull up your Zip and see where you are.


Are you using an indoor antenna?


dtv4u


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtv4u* /forum/post/19022372
> 
> 
> I've been around for 10 years (check my join date), but lurk more than I post. Looks like I only average about 8 posts a year!
> 
> 
> I do have knowledge of the weekend incident, but cannot share it at this time. People to the south and west of Empire are probably experiencing reception issues and will until additional repairs are made, pending arrival of parts. However, I would think you would be solid in western Queens. I'll have to pull up your Zip and see where you are.
> 
> 
> Are you using an indoor antenna?
> 
> 
> dtv4u




Your signal went out the other day and is now back at normal signal strength . We are in Queens.

Tvfool says 7 miles from ESB


My aunt questioned me as to what was going on. I explained it was not our system or TV. That it was a problem on your end. So that is good knowing that it is your problem and not ours. So it is just a waiting game for the people who can not get 5.1


At least you told us they are on top of it and will fix it A.S.A.P


So thank you for coming on and telling us. Otherwise we just guess at the cause.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19019008
> 
> 
> last night was good for some dtv dxing picked up wgbh a pbs out of boston rf 19. wcvb rf 22 drop by for a few mins. according to dxinfo this week we're in for a lot of tropo.



Good catch!!! Watching both now. BTW, 5-1 WCVB BST (ABC) is RF 20. First time in over 2 years I've seen these. Seems to be wiping out all CT. signals.


----------



## raj2001

5.1 now solid for me at home, no more spotty reception.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19018770
> 
> 
> Do the neighbors love the tower to?



I don't know, I never asked, and no one ever said anything to me.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19019665
> 
> 
> Both 5.1 and 9.2 were back early this morning when I checked - and
> 
> at usual SNR % level.
> 
> 
> Just re-checked - coming in just fine!



They were back yesterday evening. After some landscaping/cutting trees/cleanup around the house I came in and checked and they were as solid as the rest of them. Hope it stays that way.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Damn, now I'll have to watch the Red Sox-Yankees on ESPN, True Blood and Hung on HBO instead of the Montel Williams HealthMaster Blender. LOL!!
> 
> Originally Posted byDeadFormatLover View Post 12301



lol, I didnt catch this earlier


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Damn, now I'll have to watch the Red Sox-Yankees on ESPN, True Blood and Hung on HBO instead of the Montel Williams HealthMaster Blender. LOL!!
> 
> Originally Posted byDeadFormatLover View Post 12301



lol, I didnt catch this post earlier


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Damn, now I'll have to watch the Red Sox-Yankees on ESPN, True Blood and Hung on HBO instead of the Montel Williams HealthMaster Blender. LOL!!
> 
> Originally Posted byDeadFormatLover View Post 12301



lol, I didnt catch this post earlier


----------



## nycdigital09




> Damn, now I'll have to watch the Red Sox-Yankees on ESPN, True Blood and Hung on HBO instead of the Montel Williams HealthMaster Blender. LOL!!
> 
> Originally Posted byDeadFormatLover View Post 12301
> 
> 
> 
> lol, I didnt catch this post earlier
Click to expand...


----------



## LenL

Don't know how any of you are receiving 5.1 Fox NY but as of 2:30 PM Monday it is still not back! Before it went down I was receiving it really strong every day....in the mid 90's.... since the digital conversion.


So for me to not receive 5.1 at all is very wrong. and a very bad sign.


----------



## LenL




nycdigital09 said:


> Damn, now I'll have to watch the Red Sox-Yankees on ESPN, True Blood and Hung on HBO instead of the Montel Williams HealthMaster Blender. LOL!!
> 
> Originally Posted byDeadFormatLover View Post 12301
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> lol, I didnt catch this post earlier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOU ARE STUTTERING!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtv4u* /forum/post/19022372
> 
> 
> I've been around for 10 years (check my join date), but lurk more than I post. Looks like I only average about 8 posts a year!
> 
> 
> I do have knowledge of the weekend incident, but cannot share it at this time. People to the south and west of Empire are probably experiencing reception issues and will until additional repairs are made, pending arrival of parts. However, I would think you would be solid in western Queens. I'll have to pull up your Zip and see where you are.
> 
> 
> Are you using an indoor antenna?
> 
> 
> dtv4u



I'm at 07869 and 5.1 is still dead. I was getting in the mid 90's since the digital transition.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19024094
> 
> 
> lol, I didnt catch this earlier



Wow, 4 posts, you really thought that was funny!!


















> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19024642
> 
> 
> Don't know how any of you are receiving 5.1 Fox NY but as of 2:30 PM Monday it is still not back! Before it went down I was receiving it really strong every day....in the mid 90's.... since the digital conversion.
> 
> 
> So for me to not receive 5.1 at all is very wrong and a very bad sign.



I'm looking at it right now LenL with a 95 signal strength.


----------



## LenL

DTV4U mentioned that those of us to the west and south of the ESB would have trouble and I am west north west.


Whatever the issue it must be a directional one.


----------



## SnellKrell

Bingo!


Give that man a Mars Bar!


----------



## LenL

That would be great! Just make it one of those ice cream versions!


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Anyone have a CBS Mars bar? I'll trade you 5 FOX 5's for just one.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19025009
> 
> 
> Anyone have a CBS Mars bar? I'll trade you 5 FOX 5's for just one.



That causes me to Snicker!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19025016
> 
> 
> That causes me to Snicker!













BTW, received a channel last night I'd never seen before, * 15-1 (23) WLYH Harrisburg, PA. CW *.


Also WTXX has changed their calls letters to * 20-1 (20) WCCT CW *.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19025931
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, received a channel last night I'd never seen before, * 15-1 (23) WLYH Harrisburg, PA. CW *.



What time last night did you get this station?


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19024848
> 
> 
> DTV4U mentioned that those of us to the west and south of the ESB would have trouble and I am west north west.
> 
> 
> Whatever the issue it must be a directional one.



I haven't visited here in a very long time. Just came here to see if others had an issue.


I'm in central NJ and never had any serious issues with 5.1. I can't get it at all tonight...at first I thought it was a hardware issue with my MythTV system as I had just replaced a tuner card, but it's definitely just 5.1.


No matter how I turn my antenna I can't get better than about 30% signal.


Tom


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19024642
> 
> 
> Don't know how any of you are receiving 5.1 Fox NY but as of 2:30 PM Monday it is still not back! Before it went down I was receiving it really strong every day....in the mid 90's.... since the digital conversion.
> 
> 
> So for me to not receive 5.1 at all is very wrong. and a very bad sign.



Actually it is pretty strong here, better than it's ever been. Don't touch it at all!!!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19026454
> 
> 
> What time last night did you get this station?



I believe around 3:00 to 3:30AM Mike.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tld* /forum/post/19026468
> 
> 
> I'm in central NJ and never had any serious issues with 5.1. I can't get it at all tonight...at first I thought it was a hardware issue with my MythTV system as I had just replaced a tuner card, but it's definitely just 5.1.
> 
> 
> No matter how I turn my antenna I can't get better than about 30% signal.
> 
> 
> Tom



Tom I recall a chief engineer at another NY station telling me some time ago that WNYW's signal had to be specifically aimed more east of the ESB due to potential interference with 44-1 (44) WMCN (IND) in Atlantic City, N.J. Don't know if this is still the case, but some here from portions of Jersey had reported problems picking up WNYW prior to this recent issue.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19026626
> 
> 
> I believe around 3:00 to 3:30AM Mike.



Man, I'm still in dreamland at that time.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, WNYW's signal is directional because of that other Channel 44 in Atlantic City.


Many living S.W. of the ESB have historically had problems receiving the station.


The current problem has aggravated the normal situation.


----------



## nycdigital09

no issues here in western queens w/ fox 5.1 seems like wliw 21 signal has increased for me. i can get much better 60 -70 now. even though is 2 edge, last night tropo was pretty strorng, it blew away all the ct stations. i actually picked up another station on rf 50 i didnt get id for it. we got this heat wave for a few more days it should help with reception if you like dxing if not you will suffer


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19025931
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, received a channel last night I'd never seen before, * 15-1 (23) WLYH Harrisburg, PA. CW *.



I happen to be up and scanned my TV, the only thing I picked up was 20.1 WC20Q-D, according to Google, it's out of Hempstead.

This station is not even on TVfool's map.

It just shows religious programming.


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19026783
> 
> 
> Yes, WNYW's signal is directional because of that other Channel 44 in Atlantic City.
> 
> 
> Many living S.W. of the ESB have historically had problems receiving the station.
> 
> 
> The current problem has aggravated the normal situation.



I haven't read everything related to this as yet, but does anyone actually know what that situation is? Is there an actual antenna issue or something? I certainly hope so. I've been able to get all the NY networks forever, haven't used any pay TV for 25 years, and don't plan to. Loosing Fox would seriously suck.


Tom


EDIT: Never mind...I just saw the posts about the work on the antenna.


----------



## nycdigital09

Yes, WNYW's signal is directional because of that other Channel 44 in Atlantic City


are you kidding us, the transmitter for that station is close the wildwoods south jersey,

there is no way they would interfere with each other. even if they did, nyc takes precedent over a/c anyway there are 20 million people in nyc area.


the station i picked up dxing last night was from worcester mass. wgby ch57


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19027628
> 
> 
> Yes, WNYW's signal is directional because of that other Channel 44 in Atlantic City
> 
> 
> are you kidding us, the transmitter for that station is close the wildwoods south jersey,
> 
> there is no way they would interfere with each other. even if they did, nyc takes precedent over a/c anyway there are 20 million people in nyc area.
> 
> 
> the station i picked up dxing last night was from worcester mass. wgby ch57



Tell that to the FCC!


Do you really think that WNYW, in any way, has wanted to limit its signal???


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19027628
> 
> 
> Yes, WNYW's signal is directional because of that other Channel 44 in Atlantic City
> 
> 
> are you kidding us, the transmitter for that station is close the wildwoods south jersey,
> 
> there is no way they would interfere with each other. even if they did, nyc takes precedent over a/c anyway there are 20 million people in nyc area.
> 
> 
> the station i picked up dxing last night was from worcester mass. wgby ch57



typical snotty new yorker answer










i can understand your position but every market no matter how big or small has a right to their local channel and needs to be protected. AC is a tiny market sandwiched between philly & nyc, they need the little local content they get. fox reaches a majority of their audience thru cable & satellite.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> typical snotty new yorker answer



hows that? i bet the networks think the same way. there is a little greasin going on, if you know what i mean


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19027628
> 
> 
> are you kidding us, the transmitter for that station is close the wildwoods south jersey, there is no way they would interfere with each other.



This is incorrect. The station's transmitter is in Hammonton, closer to Trenton than to Wildwood. And the stations interfere *now*, let alone with more power. Here are some simple steps to demonstrate this.


1) Go to Trenton.

2) Try channel 44.

* You will observe no signals are decoded on this channel, or that decoded signals are flaky.

3) Try channels 33, 28, 38.

* You will observe that WCBS, WNBC, and WWOR decode.

4) Try channel 22.

* You will observe that WNJS (colocated with WMCN) decodes.

5) Make sudden realization.

* "Holy crap, WMCN and WNYW interfere in Trenton!"











- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

trip like you said if they interfere with each each others signal, you won't see a picture at all ? i have that situation here, i dont get 39.1 i get interference from n haven 39.1 the box wants to decode but it can't . your right bout 44 location, i thought it was wmgm from wildwoods. l was just reading bout the kitz amplifier, you mention you bought one, im reading mix opinions bout it, how is it workin for you..


----------



## Trip in VA

The KT200 works well for me. I wish I could have done a side-by-side comparison with the CM7777, but it was already ziptied to the pole on the roof by the time I got the KT200.


On UHF, it works wonders. On VHF, the noise floor is so high that it doesn't really help anything, but then, the 7777 was like that too.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19026554
> 
> 
> Actually it is pretty strong here, better than it's ever been. Don't touch it at all!!!



First you have an antenna setup we would all kill for.


Secondly you are not west and/or south of the ESB which happen to be the areas impacted! Like me!


----------



## nycdigital09

im using your site often, its really useful, when i try to understand why i have a problem with ota channel, now that tiger census fcc site is down, you probably gettin lots of hits. trip i talk to you later i know your busy guy. take care


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19028258
> 
> 
> Secondly you are not west and/or south of the ESB which happen to be the areas impacted! Like me!



Having been to his house, I would definitely say he's west-ish. It's more of a northwest, but still.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19028275
> 
> 
> im using your site often, its really useful, when i try to understand why i have a problem with ota channel, now that tiger census fcc site is down, you probably gettin lots of hits. trip i talk to you later i know your busy guy. take care



I'm actually home from school for two weeks, so don't worry. I am trying to see some people, but in general, I have more time for the time being.


I'm glad you find the site useful. The blue lines are generated separately from the Tiger server, so as I'm sure you've discovered, I import them from the FCC weekly and then overlay them on Google Maps.


- Trip


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19027760
> 
> 
> Tell that to the FCC!
> 
> 
> Do you really think that WNYW, in any way, has wanted to limit its signal???



Just to be clear, are you referring to signal limiting that they've been restricted to all along? What I'm getting at is that I certainly hope that the new major issues we're having SW of them is the result of a hardware issue that's being addressed.


These new issues aren't due to some new permanent mandated changes are they??? I sure hope not.


Tom


----------



## SnellKrell

New York's Channel 44 is mandated by the FCC to employ a directional signal to mitigate inference with NJ's Channel 44.


Look at Post #12305 - there continues to be reception problems, made worse by this weekend's occurrence, for those living to the West and South of the ESB. The station is working on repairs. Believe me, this person knows what he's talking about!!!!


If and when WNYW moves farther up on the ESB, there would continue to be the problem of interference to the S.W. that would have to be addressed.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19027628
> 
> 
> even if they did, nyc takes precedent over a/c anyway there are 20 million people in nyc area.



Yeah easy for you to say... the owners of WMCN think differently of course.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19028572
> 
> 
> Having been to his house, I would definitely say he's west-ish. It's more of a northwest, but still.



Northwest is about correct... I live in the NW corner of NJ, a few miles from NY state and PA. My beam heading to the ESB is 135 degrees (true, not compass).


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19028258
> 
> 
> First you have an antenna setup we would all kill for.



Well, even with my antenna setup, WNYW has always been problematic. When I had only one CM4228A up on the tower (70ft) I got nothing. Zip, zilch, nada.


With 2xCM4228A I got a lock, but dropouts. CHanging the preamp from an ntennacraft to a CM7777 helped a lot. Changing it to a research comms 9262 PHEMT amp made the biggest difference.


The spectrum analyzer shows multipath, but I think that's just because the signal is a bit lower. Everything else out of ESB is rock solid.


A guy who is just slightly South of me about 2 miles away gets a lock on WNYW with a rooftop antenna at 20ft. And not even a good one too. He has a radioshack LPDA/corner reflector.



> Quote:
> Secondly you are not west and/or south of the ESB which happen to be the areas impacted! Like me!



I am North West of the ESB. The antenna's beam heading is 135 degrees.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19024864
> 
> 
> Bingo!
> 
> 
> Give that man a Mars Bar!



I would rather go to Mar's Bar


----------



## LenL

My compass direction to the ESB is 118 degrees. So you are probably far enough north of me to get 5.1.


----------



## raj2001

Probably. I am 48 miles from the ESB.


You can look up my location on google earth to get an idea.


----------



## keyboard21

Trip in VA,


When/What is the next OTA channel coming to NYC?


Every time I ask you. We get a new channel lol


----------



## Trip in VA

I keep hearing WDVB-LD 23 is coming soon, but who knows how far out it is...


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19031238
> 
> 
> I keep hearing WDVB-LD 23 is coming soon, but who knows how far out it is...
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hi Trip,

* RTV? * Any chance *64-1 & 2 (25) WASA-LD* is gone forever? Also, possibly *42-1, 2, 3 & 4 (02) WKOB Daystar* sometime soon too?










BTW, also received *64-1 (12) WNAC R.I. (FOX)* on Monday morning.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19031238
> 
> 
> I keep hearing WDVB-LD 23 is coming soon, but who knows how far out it is...
> 
> 
> - Trip



What kind of programing?


got a link? cant seem to get info on it. Ty


----------



## Trip in VA

keyboard21: No idea. I just know the owner has been working toward getting it on the air "soon," whatever "soon" means. I know nothing beyond that.


DFL: I've heard nothing to suggest RTV is going to make it to New York any time soon, but WDVB-LD would be a good candidate for it if it was to come.


I know nothing about WKOB-LD, but I wouldn't suspect anyone (other than Daystar) will want to lease bandwidth on a signal nobody can receive.


WASA-LD is owned by the company that owns Estrella TV on 11-2, so I really don't know what the deal is there. I figure Liberman bought it assuming it would be the Estrella O&O in New York, but then made the deal with WPIX and didn't need it. So who knows what will happen to it.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover









_*Trip!!!*_


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> The spectrum analyzer shows multipath, but I think that's just because the signal is a bit lower. Everything else out of ESB is rock solid. posted by raj



have you tried a yagi type antenna ei. xg91 if you got multipath issue. just a thought. also i been hearing that channel master might be bringing back the cm 4251 - 7 ft parabolic, is on limbo cos of economy what do you think ?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19031745
> 
> 
> I know nothing about WKOB-LD, but I wouldn't suspect anyone (other than Daystar) will want to lease bandwidth on a signal nobody can receive.



Speaking of which, I bet if I had a low band antenna out here i'd get them. A friend of mine down the road gets them all broken up on a Radioshack VU75XR.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19032160
> 
> 
> have you tried a yagi type antenna ei. xg91 if you got multipath issue. just a thought. also i been hearing that channel master might be bringing back the cm 4251 - 7 ft parabolic, is on limbo cos of economy what do you think ?



I initially tried a Philips combo lpda/yagi reflector and it was actually worse. Haven't tried the XG91 but if I get one cheap or borrowed I may give it a shot.


I am pretty much halting my antenna spending on NYC stations for the while until after WNYW does its work next year (according to the FCC filing). Everything else is solid as a rock except for Fox (and harold camping's religious nuts station) and now it's solid after the last incident but I am curious to see if it holds up. The only thing if anything is that I might build a few antennas and cantilever mounts for philly stations in the meantime.


As for the 4251, I would love to get my hands on one, or two, or four.


----------



## LenL

Still no reception here. How long does it take to get a part and install it? I have to believe that this is not a priority for FOX. The weather has been great so there is NO excuse to not deliver OTA to us folks to the West and South. Wait, we are in NJ so Fox could care less about us.


I think I will send some notes off to the FCC, and my local politicians.


----------



## dtrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19034085
> 
> 
> Still no reception here. How long does it take to get a part and install it? I have to believe that this is not a priority for FOX. The weather has been great so there is NO excuse to not deliver OTA to us folks to the West and South. Wait, we are in NJ so Fox could care less about us.
> 
> 
> I think I will send some notes off to the FCC, and my local politicians.



I e-mailed them yesterday, and they replied that things should be back to normal by the weekend.


----------



## tahoejoe

Below is the actual reply I received:



"WNYW FOX-5 at a slightly reduced coverage pattern due to some equipment failures at our transmitter site. We are waiting on equipment to arrive that will restore full operation. We appreciate your patience during this time and your loyal viewership of our Station. During this time we'd like to point out that you should be able to receive 5.2 which is the Standard Definition channel for FOX-5 which carries the same programming as 5.1. WWOR on 9.2 is carried by the WNYW transmitter as part of the 5.1 signal so that would make sense if it is missing along with 5.1. We hope to be able to increase coverage by this weekend.




Al Shjarback


WNYW / WWOR TV"


----------



## dtrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/19034901
> 
> 
> Below is the actual reply I received:
> 
> 
> 
> "WNYW FOX-5 at a slightly reduced coverage pattern due to some equipment failures at our transmitter site. We are waiting on equipment to arrive that will restore full operation. We appreciate your patience during this time and your loyal viewership of our Station. During this time we'd like to point out that you should be able to receive 5.2 which is the Standard Definition channel for FOX-5 which carries the same programming as 5.1. WWOR on 9.2 is carried by the WNYW transmitter as part of the 5.1 signal so that would make sense if it is missing along with 5.1. We hope to be able to increase coverage by this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al Shjarback
> 
> 
> WNYW / WWOR TV"



Yes. That's exactly what I received as well.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19032828
> 
> 
> Everything else is solid as a rock except for Fox (and harold camping's religious nuts station) and now it's solid after the last incident but I am curious to see if it holds up.



Too funny. I hope Count Dracula holds up for you.


















> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/19034901
> 
> 
> Below is the actual reply I received:
> 
> 
> 
> During this time we'd like to point out that you should be able to receive 5.2 which is the Standard Definition channel for FOX-5 which carries the same programming as 5.1. WWOR on 9.2 is carried by the WNYW transmitter as part of the 5.1 signal so that would make sense if it is missing along with 5.1. We hope to be able to increase coverage by this weekend.
> 
> 
> Al Shjarback
> 
> 
> WNYW / WWOR TV"



Yeah except the signal strength is much reduced on 9-2 (38), (I am getting 9-1 & 9.2), and many folks have problems receiving UHF 38 too and always have, though I do not on my Winegard UHF 9095P with the Winegard AP8700 pre-amp.


And what a confusing mess on each of my 3 OTA receivers with 44 and 38 and the manner in which they map out. Each one displays differently.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19034085
> 
> 
> Still no reception here. How long does it take to get a part and install it? I have to believe that this is not a priority for FOX. The weather has been great so there is NO excuse to not deliver OTA to us folks to the West and South. Wait, we are in NJ so Fox could care less about us.
> 
> 
> I think I will send some notes off to the FCC, and my local politicians.



Depends on what the issue is. I was sworn to secrecy, but if the rumor I heard is true, the delay is completely reasonable.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

fox 5 has gone away for me. gettin sd on 5.2 it really sucks.







strong tropo here boston's wgbh rf 19.1 pbs coming here loud clear, anyone else watchin it. i hope they straitened this channel mapping mess.







trip stop playing with us, whats on going on. lol


----------



## dtrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19037651
> 
> 
> fox 5 has gone away for me. gettin sd on 5.2 it really sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strong tropo here boston's wgbh rf 19.1 pbs coming here loud clear, anyone else watchin it. i hope they straitened this channel mapping mess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trip stop playing with us, whats on going on. lol



FOX 5 is back.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtrem* /forum/post/19038312
> 
> 
> FOX 5 is back.



Just checked, coming in strong for me in North Central NJ as well.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> FOX 5 is back



thxs for rapid response, where is Florham Park, NJ is that near wayne?


----------



## dtrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19038422
> 
> 
> thxs for rapid response, where is Florham Park, NJ is that near wayne?



Not too far. Southwest of Wayne, I suppose. Just east of Morristown and south of Livingston.


----------



## LenL

Same here. Looking good so far!


----------



## dvdchance

Actually I've been watching it for a little bit now and it still doesn't seem as strong as it used to. I'm getting a bit of pixilation.


----------



## raj2001

It seems as though they were doing work last night.


Early this morning it had a bit of breaking up, but I don't know if it had to do with the work they were doing or just my normal multipath problem.


Also if the same rumor that Trip heard is the same one I heard, it makes a lot of sense that there'd be a delay and also why my reception is plagued by multipath.


I hope the work next year putting the antenna higher up the mast helps me a bit.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19040014
> 
> 
> Also if the same rumor that Trip heard is the same one I heard, it makes a lot of sense that there'd be a delay and also why my reception is plagued by multipath.



What's the big secret, was King Kong up there again?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19040014
> 
> 
> Early this morning it had a bit of breaking up, but I don't know if it had to do with the work they were doing or just my normal multipath problem. I hope the work next year putting the antenna higher up the mast helps me a bit.



Raj, perhaps you or Trip or anyone can elaborate on what I was told by the CBS engineer, who said to me and I quote. "Increasing their signal strength and/or raising my antennas can often cause greater problems when experiencing multi-path issues." Would either FOX or CBS elevating the height of _*their*_ antennas at the ESB remedy multi-path problems?


On another note, audio on WLNY 45-1 is now gone on every single OTA receiver I own. Would someone else here besides myself kindly place a phone call alerting WLNY Engineering in Melville, N.Y. 631-777-8855? I think this gentleman believes I am the only individual experiencing this?


Perhaps if he hears o/w, he may actually realize they have a serious problem. Thanks to all in advance!!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19040732
> 
> 
> Raj, perhaps you or Trip or anyone can elaborate on what I was told by the CBS engineer, who said to me and I quote. "Increasing their signal strength and/or raising my antennas can often cause greater problems when experiencing multi-path issues." Would either FOX or CBS elevating the height of _*their*_ antennas at the ESB remedy multi-path problems?



Just FTR I don't think my issue is strictly multipath. Adding a better preamp helped quite a lot.


But Fox has an application on file with the FCC for moving up the mast, bumping up power and (I think) a new directional antenna.


----------



## tld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19039313
> 
> 
> Same here. Looking good so far!



Yup...here in 08880 5.1 is coming in great. I'm getting almost 90% signal. I'm not sure I ever got it that well actually.


Tom


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19040732
> 
> 
> Raj, perhaps you or Trip or anyone can elaborate on what I was told by the CBS engineer, who said to me and I quote. "Increasing their signal strength and/or raising my antennas can often cause greater problems when experiencing multi-path issues." Would either FOX or CBS elevating the height of _*their*_ antennas at the ESB remedy multi-path problems?
> 
> 
> On another note, audio on WLNY 45-1 is now gone on every single OTA receiver I own. Would someone else here besides myself kindly place a phone call alerting WLNY Engineering in Melville, N.Y. 631-777-8855? I think this gentleman believes I am the only individual experiencing this?
> 
> 
> Perhaps if he hears o/w, he may actually realize they have a serious problem. Thanks to all in advance!!



Are you getting that station from NYC or LI?


I have had no problem with testing the Dishpal DVR in LI and now it is in queens and No problem getting the signal from NYC with SOUND/AUDIO


I do not know why you are having such problems?


Can you try hooking up your TV directly to your antenna and doing a Station search and see if you get Audio directly to your TV from WLNY?


Maybe you need a visit from your local TRIP in VA lol Come on trip go for a drive lol


----------



## Trip in VA

Haha, sadly, I'm unlikely to be in the area again until the end of December. Too much to do down here in Virginia!


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19041169
> 
> 
> Haha, sadly, I'm unlikely to be in the area again until the end of December. Too much to do down here in Virginia!
> 
> 
> - Trip



Even if a NY PIZZA is promised?











Could it be his Antenna? Or Coax line? Any other cause?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19041099
> 
> 
> Are you getting that station from NYC or LI?
> 
> 
> I have had no problem with testing the Dishpal DVR in LI and now it is in queens and No problem getting the signal from NYC with SOUND/AUDIO
> 
> 
> I do not know why you are having such problems?
> 
> 
> Can you try hooking up your TV directly to your antenna and doing a Station search and see if you get Audio directly to your TV from WLNY?
> 
> 
> Maybe you need a visit from your local TRIP in VA lol Come on trip go for a drive lol



From Manhattan, never could get the L.I. transmission but once. It's not just me keyboard21. If you go back and look at posts, lots of folks have reported the same problem, and it's not just my Dishnet VIP722, it's all my digital receivers now. Also, I don't have a monitor with a built in digital OTA tuner.


I'm afraid the only way Trip could help would be to drive over to Melville


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19034085
> 
> 
> Still no reception here. How long does it take to get a part and install it? I have to believe that this is not a priority for FOX. The weather has been great so there is NO excuse to not deliver OTA to us folks to the West and South. Wait, we are in NJ so Fox could care less about us.
> 
> 
> I think I will send some notes off to the FCC, and my local politicians.



Yikes! Please chill a little. I can assure you restoring WNYW 5.1 has been foremost on the minds of the engineers at WNYW (and me, too!). While I cannot disclose what happened, due to possible legal action, I can say that normal operations have now been restored. You should be getting 5.1 as well as you did a week ago. If not, something may have changed on your end. You might try a rescan just to be safe.


Thanks for your interest in any case.


dtv4u


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtv4u* /forum/post/19042335
> 
> 
> Yikes! Please chill a little. I can assure you restoring WNYW 5.1 has been foremost on the minds of the engineers at WNYW (and me, too!). While I cannot disclose what happened, due to possible legal action, I can say that normal operations have now been restored. You should be getting 5.1 as well as you did a week ago. If not, something may have changed on your end. You might try a rescan just to be safe.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your interest in any case.
> 
> 
> dtv4u



BTW, the "part" you referred to had to be custom manufactured and then delivered to Empire via a dedicated truck from Indiana. It was too big for Fedex. Actually, a pretty quick turn all things considered.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtv4u* /forum/post/19042344
> 
> 
> BTW, the "part" you referred to had to be custom manufactured and then delivered to Empire via a dedicated truck from Indiana. It was too big for Fedex. Actually, a pretty quick turn all things considered.



I'll say!!! Maybe you can help WLNY too, lol!!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Also if the same rumor that Trip heard is the same one I heard, it makes a lot of sense that there'd be a delay and also why my reception is plagued by multipath.



posted by raj2001


its not gonna matter in few years, when they broadcast from freedom tower,


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Also if the same rumor that Trip heard is the same one I heard posted by raj2001



fox 5 is coming in better, but now my9 is breaking up alot here. what are you guys some luminati or masonry, let me join your covert clan. lol


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtv4u* /forum/post/19042344
> 
> 
> BTW, the "part" you referred to had to be custom manufactured and then delivered to Empire via a dedicated truck from Indiana. It was too big for Fedex. Actually, a pretty quick turn all things considered.



I think the big problem all of us who were impacted had was the fact that FOX5 which is in the comminications business did a horsh##t job of communicating the outage to us OTA folks. If the best they can do is have you go covert on them and post some mysterious notes on this forum than they deserve all the anger they get.


How difficult would is have been to be up front and honest with us and simply say they would be out of business for 5-7 days? No need to give us the technical details just keep us informed. They have a WEBSITE, they have radio, TV etc. to let us know. Instead they to choose to ignore us. I think that is simply poor judgement, leadership and management!


I know some of us sent emails and got replies. Well I sent one too and got NADA.


I thank you for your efforts. YOu get an A+. However FOX5 gets and F for failing to let the OTA viewers know what happened and how long it would be.


----------



## Trip in VA

I have both good news and bad news.


The good news is that RTV is coming to New York!


The bad news is that it's going to be on WKOB-LD 2, if the RTV website is to be believed.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

was your life that severely impacted by not having fox in hd for a few days? maybe they should have your number of their speed dial next time the station goes out. **** happens and when it does all efforts will be focused on restoration. sure things could have been handled better but i'm sure this will be a lesson to all those involved.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19043408
> 
> 
> I think the big problem all of us who were impacted had was the fact that FOX5 which is in the comminications business did a horsh##t job of communicating the outage to us OTA folks. If the best they can do is have you go covert on them and post some mysterious notes on this forum than they deserve all the anger they get.
> 
> 
> How difficult would is have been to be up front and honest with us and simply say they would be out of business for 5-7 days? No need to give us the technical details just keep us informed. They have a WEBSITE, they have radio, TV etc. to let us know. Instead they to choose to ignore us. I think that is simply poor judgement, leadership and management!
> 
> 
> I know some of us sent emails and got replies. Well I sent one too and got NADA.
> 
> 
> I thank you for your efforts. YOu get an A+. However FOX5 gets and F for failing to let the OTA viewers know what happened and how long it would be.


----------



## nycdigital09

I have both good news and bad news.



> Quote:
> The good news is that RTV is coming to New York!
> 
> 
> The bad news is that it's going to be on WKOB-LD 2, if the RTV website is to be believed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



if is gonna be like retro tv was with wsah. only on for a few hours part time basis. the rest advertisent then don't even bother


----------



## LenL

Are you a schill for the station? What the heck kind of response was that? You must take us for dopes to believe everyone including the non engineers were so busy that they could not take just a few minutes to come up with a communication plan and then execute it.


In fact one has to ask why they did not have an emergency communication plan to deal with outages in place to begin with? It's not like FOX 5 just opened for business. It seems to me this is a clear case of management ineptitude. Lack of planning. Something those guys in the high priced suits who get paid those big executive compensation packages should be on top of. Its called disaster planning. Something I did as a side job in the business world.


No I was not harmed in any way. I was simply inconvenieced. I guess the attitude you and FOX have is screw the customer. It is a sobering thought that we don't really matter and that is OK with me. I guess the only power we have is to stop watching FOX. It can be real easy and satisfying to do.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19044092
> 
> 
> I have both good news and bad news.
> 
> 
> The good news is that RTV is coming to New York!
> 
> 
> The bad news is that it's going to be on WKOB-LD 2, if the RTV website is to be believed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



No







* RTV? * * Praise The Lord!!! *











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19044889
> 
> 
> if is gonna be like retro tv was with wsah. only on for a few hours part time basis. the rest advertisent then don't even bother



I think the more likely question is how long will * WKOB Daystar * exist in any market?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19044092
> 
> 
> I have both good news and bad news.
> 
> 
> The good news is that RTV is coming to New York!
> 
> 
> The bad news is that it's going to be on WKOB-LD 2, if the RTV website is to be believed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip I have a few of questions in regards to WKOB-LD-2. I would appreciate you giving your best guess if you do not know the answer.




1) How can this be on channel 2 if CBS shows as 2.1 on all boxes and tv's I know CBS it is UHF I think real channel 33?? Something like that. Point is. What channel will it show on a TV BOX or TV?


2) When will is the START date?


3) If they use VHF channel 2 Will that mean bad reception for most of us? In analog we used to get heavy snow on Channel 2 (CBS) at that time.


4) What building will they broadcast from? ESB? Trump tower?


5) Are they broadcasting some other stations now? On the AIR NOW? In other words should we be able to get this station now with some other programing or it is BRAND NEW for NYC and not on the air yet?


My TVFOOL shows them listed with no Virtual channel listed. Just the real channel 2



Again I thank you for your time and sharing. You are a great asset to us here.










*

WKOB-LD is a low-powered DayStar affiliate for the New York City area, licensed, owned and operated by Nave Communications.


The channel launched as an Independent station, then an Almavision affiliate in Mid-2006. In Late-2006, Almavision programming ceased on the station and started airing DayStar programming, which is still broadcasting to this day.


WKOB once had a construction permit to broadcast a digital signal on channel 59 at 0.4 KW, which has since been modified to specify operation on channel 2 with 0.3 KW, the latter of which is on the air as of February 2010. The station also has filed an Application For Displacement to move its digital signal back to channel 42. The station has filed this application for the following reason:


"Applicant’s current operational facility is located on Channel 2, a low band VHF channel. VHF facilities, particularly low band VHF, are subject to reception problems due to impulse noise. Applicant seeks a channel in the UHF band that will provide improved viewer reception."


The application has been accepted, however no official action has been taken.*


----------



## nycdigital09

on the retrotv.com it says its going to be on wmbc 63 rf 18.1 not daystar look under facebook.


----------



## nycdigital09

i guess you got your wish keyboard, more channels. just didnt know there was price paid to the piper


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19045820
> 
> 
> on the retrotv.com it says its going to be on wmbc 63 rf 18.1 not daystar look under facebook.



Not sure where you see WMBC? The website shows

*New York

WGRZ - Buffalo

WTEN - Albany-Schenectady-Troy

WNMN - Plattsburg

WGMU - Plattsburg

WBVT - Plattsburg

WKOB - New York City
*


Got a link? I can not find the facebook page you speak of


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19045327
> 
> 
> 
> No I was not harmed in any way. I was simply inconvenieced. I guess the attitude you and FOX have is screw the customer. It is a sobering thought that we don't really matter and that is OK with me. I guess the only power we have is to stop watching FOX. It can be real easy and satisfying to do.



So ask for a credit for the time you lost.


Oh, wait!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19045820
> 
> 
> on the retrotv.com it says its going to be on wmbc 63 rf 18.1 not daystar look under facebook.



On the RTV website it says ...


New York

WGRZ - Buffalo

WTEN - Albany-Schenectady-Troy

WNMN - Plattsburg

WGMU - Plattsburg

WBVT - Plattsburg

WKOB - New York City


I receive it consistently with a strong 83 signal strength at this moment.

*42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar

42-2 Daystar WKOB-LP SD2

42-3 WKOB-LP SD3

42-4*


42-2 is now duplicating 42-1 but the video & audio is freezing. Now there's an intermittent round blue image saying "signal lost" on both. 42-3 shows a test pattern and WKOB-LP SD3 (WKOB-LP blinking), and nothing on 42-4.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19045898
> 
> 
> On the RTV website it says ...
> 
> 
> 
> I receive it consistently with a strong 83 signal strength at this moment.
> 
> *42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar
> 
> 42-2 Daystar WKOB-LP SD2
> 
> 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3
> 
> 42-4*
> 
> 
> 42-2 is now duplicating 42-1 but the video & audio is freezing. Now there's an intermittent round blue image saying "signal lost" on both. 42-3 shows a test pattern and WKOB-LP SD3 (WKOB-LP blinking), and nothing on 42-4.




You are getting the signal now from NYC?


If so we do not get station 42 -1 to 4 As of right now. So I guess we will not get RTV at all if we can not receive the station now.


That is why I was asking if it was on now or not. And what station channel it shows.


Thanks for the info. Guess it stinks for us.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19045957
> 
> 
> You are getting the signal now from NYC?
> 
> 
> If so we do not get station 42 -1 to 4 As of right now. So I guess we will not get RTV at all if we can not receive the station now.
> 
> 
> That is why I was asking if it was on now or not. And what station channel it shows.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. Guess it stinks for us.



Welcome. Yeah, I've been getting it since last November when I finally got my U/V antenna back up. I assumed it's coming off the ESB because the orientation of this antenna is exactly the same for everything else transmitting from there, but I really do not know? As per what both the WNET and CBS chief engineers told me, VHF channel's come in quite well in suburban areas and not congested cities with many building obstructions. Tell ya what though, I'd trade them all for a solid WCBS. Along with WNET I watch and archive more programming from CBS than any other channel. The CBS Cablevision feed is so compressed sometimes it doesn't even look like HD and the digital dolby compared to the OTA DD is like night and day.


I forget if you use an indoor or outdoor antenna. If indoor, I'm not surprised at all that you can't receive it, but I find it hard to believe with an outdoor antenna even in an urban city it still shouldn't be received.


I'd be happy to DVHS it for you, but I'm sure you're not a DeadFormatLover.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19046093
> 
> 
> Welcome. Yeah, I've been getting it since last November when I finally got my U/V antenna back up. I assumed it's coming off the ESB because the orientation of this antenna is exactly the same for everything else transmitting from there, but I really do not know? As per what both the WNET and CBS chief engineers told me, VHF channel's come in quite well in suburban areas and not congested cities with many building obstructions. Tell ya what though, I'd trade them all for a solid WCBS. Along with WNET I watch and archive more programming from CBS than any other channel. The CBS Cablevision feed is so compressed sometimes it doesn't even look like HD and the digital dolby compared to the OTA DD is like night and day.
> 
> 
> I forget if you use an indoor or outdoor antenna. If indoor, I'm not surprised at all that you can't receive it, but I find it hard to believe with an outdoor antenna even in an urban city it still shouldn't be received.
> 
> 
> I'd be happy to DVHS it for you, but I'm sure you're not a DeadFormatLover.



Do not know what DVHS is? We use a terk 55 It is called an indoor/outdoor antenna. I got same results with Clearstream C2 (outdoor antenna) (used inside). Maybe one day I will try a DB4 or C4


I read on wikipedia that they applied and was accepted to move back to UHF 42. If that happens then we should get it. VHF channel 2 came in BAD with alot of snow when there was ANALOG. So this does not surprise me


We do get CBS at 100% signal Although it does fluctuate to 98%










We do get This TV at 88% and the new channel 45.1 (55) At 83%


So I guess we are not missing much. Does piss me off though


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Not sure where you see WMBC? The website shows post by keyboard 21



go here you see trip comments and response below that


----------



## nycdigital09

 http://www.facebook.com/myretrotv


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 i sent you a pm


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19045691
> 
> 
> 1) How can this be on channel 2 if CBS shows as 2.1 on all boxes and tv's I know CBS it is UHF I think real channel 33?? Something like that. Point is. What channel will it show on a TV BOX or TV?



42-1. I received it last time I was in New Jersey on my grandparents' otherwise disconnected attic antenna. It just barely decoded with my amp in the line.



> Quote:
> 2) When will is the START date?



No clue.



> Quote:
> 3) If they use VHF channel 2 Will that mean bad reception for most of us? In analog we used to get heavy snow on Channel 2 (CBS) at that time.



Yep. That's why I said "bad news."



> Quote:
> 4) What building will they broadcast from? ESB? Trump tower?



Trump Tower. I have that information on my website.



> Quote:
> 5) Are they broadcasting some other stations now? On the AIR NOW? In other words should we be able to get this station now with some other programing or it is BRAND NEW for NYC and not on the air yet?



It's showing Daystar right now on one of the subs.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19045820
> 
> 
> on the retrotv.com it says its going to be on wmbc 63 rf 18.1 not daystar look under facebook.



That's some random person, not official from RTV.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19046329
> 
> 
> 42-1. I received it last time I was in New Jersey on my grandparents' otherwise disconnected attic antenna. It just barely decoded with my amp in the line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No clue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. That's why I said "bad news."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump Tower. I have that information on my website.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's showing Daystar right now on one of the subs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some random person, not official from RTV.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Can you tell us what is the power coming from 42.1? Versus 45.1 ?


We get 45.1 from trump tower. So it must be the power and/or the VHf crapa


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19046421
> 
> 
> Can you tell us what is the power coming from 42.1? Versus 45.1 ?
> 
> 
> We get 45.1 from trump tower. So it must be the power and/or the VHS crapa



Probably VHF (not VHF) issues.


Seriously, I have all this information on my website. Expand out Technical Data:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...llsign=WKOB-LD 
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...llsign=WLNY-CD 


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19046434
> 
> 
> Probably VHF (not VHF) issues.
> 
> 
> Seriously, I have all this information on my website. Expand out Technical Data:
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...llsign=WKOB-LD
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...llsign=WLNY-CD
> 
> 
> - Trip



ok looking



So am I reading this correctly? WKOB .3 kw and WLNY 15kw


If I am reading correctly. This is why it is so low. I wonder if they switch to UHS if it will make any difference. I also do not get 63. I get the station signal but no video or audio.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> I wonder if they switch to UHS if it will make any difference. posted by keyboard 21



they have an application to be moved to uhf band. just let the powers be, things will be better, they know all particulars so don't get bend out of shape,


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19046578
> 
> 
> ok looking
> 
> 
> 
> So am I reading this correctly? WKOB .3 kw and WLNY 15kw
> 
> 
> If I am reading correctly. This is why it is so low. I wonder if they switch to UHS if it will make any difference.



If they are allowed the full 15 kw on UHF it will make a big difference. Considering all the additional noise digital VHF stations have to deal with the maximum for VHF LDs should probably be at least triple or 900 watts.


----------



## nycdigital09

trip i got a question for you, hope you can give me definitive answer, if wkob has application to move to rf 42.1 and wsah bridgeport is allready on that channel, can they move there, will the application be turned down, or will wsah fester about being to close to their signal? now if they are allowed to carry retro on rf42 the signal has to be so miniscule, like 1/2 to 1 watt total power that wouldn;t give me clean shave on my razor.


----------



## Trip in VA

The channel 42 application is for Orange NJ (near where WFME-29 is) and I believe is in the deepest null of the proposed WSAH on Empire. I think that would keep it under 0.5% interference, I just can't see the signal making it into New York City at all.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> I just can't see the signal making it into New York City at all. post by trip in va.



agree, they must have a fall back plan, they can get in on as sub on ch39, that signal is pretty strong


----------



## nycdigital09

trip i just read your review on hd homerun, sounds like a buy to me. only 1 question have you tried it using in network on multiple pcs, laptop if you have, notice any lag or pq, i want to set 1 up for 4 users here in my home, gracias amigo


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sammer* /forum/post/19048290
> 
> 
> If they are allowed the full 15 kw on UHF it will make a big difference. Considering all the additional noise digital VHF stations have to deal with the maximum for VHF LDs should probably be at least triple or 900 watts.



45.1 is not a Low Power station is it? SO how can 42.1 who is a Low power station ever get to 15 KW? Even a move to UHF would not increase the KW correct? Of course we could get the signal because UHF is better.


The Application was only for the move to UHF. Is that correct? Not to increase to 15 kw


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19048447
> 
> 
> The channel 42 application is for Orange NJ (near where WFME-29 is) and I believe is in the deepest null of the proposed WSAH on Empire. I think that would keep it under 0.5% interference, I just can't see the signal making it into New York City at all.
> 
> 
> - Trip



So the UHF move is only for NJ? Not NYC?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> So the UHF move is only for NJ? Not NYC?



yes but its only for 1 kw of juice not enough for metro area


----------



## nycdigital09

look here http://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1358370


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19048699
> 
> 
> look here http://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1358370



Dam shame.








I just e-mailed RTV.


Just so I am understanding. The current VHF 2 WKOB on top of the trump tower has no plans to switch to UHF. Is this correct?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19048535
> 
> 
> only 1 question have you tried it using in network on multiple pcs, laptop if you have, notice any lag or pq, i want to set 1 up for 4 users here in my home, gracias amigo



It doesn't multicast, if that's what you're asking. The thing's amazingly fast in my experience, though at this point I only have one tuner hooked up. The PQ's good but my wireless sometimes chokes on 1080i video when it gets over 16 Mbps (only WDBJ, in my area). But then, I'm using wireless G with less than perfect signal. No problems when wired, and I'll be testing it on wireless N later in the month.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19048605
> 
> 
> 45.1 is not a Low Power station is it? SO how can 42.1 who is a Low power station ever get to 15 KW? Even a move to UHF would not increase the KW correct? Of course we could get the signal because UHF is better.



WLNY-CD is a Class A digital, which has the same power restrictions as a low-power station. See my statement on that below.



> Quote:
> The Application was only for the move to UHF. Is that correct? Not to increase to 15 kw



Well, VHF LD stations are capped at 0.3 kW versus 15 kW for UHF. Of course, WKOB-LD on 42 in Orange couldn't go up to 15 kW due to interference concerns.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19048743
> 
> 
> Just so I am understanding. The current VHF 2 WKOB on top of the trump tower has no plans to switch to UHF. Is this correct?



If they moved to 42, they'd have to discontinue channel 2. But, of course, the channel 42 would be restricted in coverage as you've observed.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Sorry to change the topic being discussed here, but it appears FOX 5 didn't inform their issues were fixed because the Orioles-Rays game is not being broadcast in HD. Just an inserted wide-screen image with bars on the left and right sides. Or maybe it's Dish that's screwed up? Fine off OTA and Cablevision.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

BTW, I am now getting audio again on 45-1 WLNY but only on my * JVC HM-DT100U's *, not my * Samsung SIR-T165 *, (no video or audio), or my * Dishnet VIP722 DVR *, (video but no audio.)


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19049251
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they moved to 42, they'd have to discontinue channel 2. But, of course, the channel 42 would be restricted in coverage as you've observed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



You mean this http://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1358370 


We might be able to get it with this map.


----------



## Trip in VA

Except that WSAH-42 has an application to move to Empire. If approved, you'd have 990 kW of WSAH in downtown New York versus 1 kW of WKOB-LD from West Orange, NJ.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19049535
> 
> 
> Except that WSAH-42 has an application to move to Empire. If approved, you'd have 990 kW of WSAH in downtown New York versus 1 kW of WKOB-LD from West Orange, NJ.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Great so Bottom line is RTV picked a bad partner. Just so they can say they are in NYC.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19049588
> 
> 
> Great so Bottom line is RTV picked a bad partner. Just so they can say they are in NYC.



i don't know anything about the deal. bad partner perhaps but not just so they can say they are in nyc. could be they were not able to reach a deal with a more powerful station, cost of being on a better station, or something else. of course there's the chance they just want to get on any station in anticipation that a cable company would pick it up to reach a bigger audience. lot of smaller stations like WLNY, WRNN, WFME would have no audience at all if it wasn't for cable. well actually WFME has no audience period.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19049598
> 
> 
> i don't know anything about the deal. bad partner perhaps but not just so they can say they are in nyc. could be they were not able to reach a deal with a more powerful station, cost of being on a better station, or something else. of course there's the chance they just want to get on any station in anticipation that a cable company would pick it up to reach a bigger audience. lot of smaller stations like WLNY, WRNN, WFME would have no audience at all if it wasn't for cable. well actually WFME has no audience period.



That is why 45.2 would be perfect for RTV and a good sub for WLNY


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19049535
> 
> 
> Except that WSAH-42 has an application to move to Empire. If approved, you'd have 990 kW of WSAH in downtown New York versus 1 kW of WKOB-LD from West Orange, NJ.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hey Trip, I love WSAH, I mean who wouldn't? 24/7 infomercials with a new strong signal to boot. I'm watching the Zumba Dance Fitness System right now, awesome and it sure beats WASA's, (now back on the air), * Montel Williams HealthMaster Blender *. * LOL!! * Almost as good as TVL!! The heck with RTV, thisTV, CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS & FOX. This is DTV at it's finest!!!


----------



## Trip in VA

I imagine that if WSAH had a respectable OTA signal, it would wind up with a multicast of foreign-language programming. It's owned by "Multicultural Broadcasting."


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19049661
> 
> 
> Hey Trip, I love WSAH, I mean who wouldn't? 24/7 infomercials with a new strong signal to boot. I'm watching the Zumba Dance Fitness System right now, awesome and it sure beats WASA's, (now back on the air), * Montel Williams HealthMaster Blender *. * LOL!! * Almost as good as TVL!! The heck with RTV, thisTV, CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS & FOX. This is DTV at it's finest!!!



Yea what is up with that? Montel loses his show now he got a blender?


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19043408
> 
> 
> I think the big problem all of us who were impacted had was the fact that FOX5 which is in the comminications business did a horsh##t job of communicating the outage to us OTA folks. If the best they can do is have you go covert on them and post some mysterious notes on this forum than they deserve all the anger they get.
> 
> 
> How difficult would is have been to be up front and honest with us and simply say they would be out of business for 5-7 days? No need to give us the technical details just keep us informed. They have a WEBSITE, they have radio, TV etc. to let us know. Instead they to choose to ignore us. I think that is simply poor judgement, leadership and management!
> 
> 
> I know some of us sent emails and got replies. Well I sent one too and got NADA.
> 
> 
> I thank you for your efforts. YOu get an A+. However FOX5 gets and F for failing to let the OTA viewers know what happened and how long it would be.



Sorry you feel that way.


dtv4u


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtv4u* /forum/post/19050294
> 
> 
> Sorry you feel that way.
> 
> 
> dtv4u



LENL does have a point.


Maybe FOX could of put something on their website.


Maybe next time they will do just that. Learn from mistakes.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19049856
> 
> 
> Yea what is up with that? Montel loses his show now he got a blender?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtv4u* /forum/post/19050294
> 
> 
> Sorry you feel that way.
> 
> 
> dtv4u



Honesty, I don't watch a great deal of programming on Fox except MLB, Cops and AMW, but you guys did a fantastic job even though I wasn't affected here in Great Neck. A perfect example of how good is how really bad so many other OTA channels take forever to make corrections over periods of months and sometimes years. I thank you!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19050334
> 
> 
> Honesty, I don't watch a great deal of programming on Fox except MLB, Cops and AMW, but you guys did a fantastic job even though I wasn't affected here in Great Neck. A perfect example of how good is how really bad so many other OTA channels take forever to make corrections over periods of months and sometimes years. I thank you!



Please explain what OTA issues that took months and years to fix? I went OTA with the Digital conversion. The FOX5 issue was the worse thing I saw since the conversion. Like is said what for me compounded the problem was the poor job of communication. Like they had no disaster recovey plans and were embarrassed to admit to a problem. It stunk. I no longer watch a number of FOX programs. Not only because of the outage but because they even ignored an email I sent. There are lots of options and they are NO longer at the top of my list. They probably could care less too.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Len, if you went OTA with the digital conversion, you should have realized years ago, (which I did), that writing e-mails gets you nowhere. With a little persistence, you can reach the engineering dept. at just about any network by picking up a telephone. I've never tried Fox, but I'm on a first name basis with folks at almost all the other major networks in the Tri-State area, and if you've never seen the ongoing problems on the many 2nd tier networks, then you simply haven't been watching. Believe me, I understand your frustration, (I cannot receive CBS here), plus having to deal with Cablevision and their almost weekly variety of breakdowns and miserable customer service response.


----------



## nycdigital09

trip, whats the latest news with retro tv i read on wiki that the application has been approved to move to rf 42 but nothing has been done.


----------



## Trip in VA

Nothing's changed, it's not approved.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

I will try phone calls in the future...if they give out a number. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lenl* /forum/post/19054934
> 
> 
> i will try phone calls in the future...if they give out a number. Thanks for the advice.



"411"!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19054962
> 
> 
> "411"!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19054934
> 
> 
> I will try phone calls in the future...if they give out a number. Thanks for the advice.



no need to waste money on 411. LenL you act as if fox has their number unlisted and impossible to find. every major station and media outlet has someone answering the phone 24/7. if you bothered to google "wnyw phone number" you would have got it. emails are probably read by interns that don't know anything.


----------



## LenL

Is that why when you go to their WEBSITE and click on the CONTACT US BUTTON the only thing they provide is email contact?


I also searched the website for a phone number and Nothing is provided.


Yeah right they want phone calls. If they really wanted the public to call don't you think they would offer a number on the WEBSITE under the contact us button? Duh!


Sure I can do a hunt on the internet trying to get a number but if they were really interested in a phone call from us customers it would be readily available on the website.


I know my comments here and in the past are not ones you like but if only you were a OTA customer gettng shafted then you think differently.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Yeah right they want phone calls. If they really wanted the public to call don't you think they would offer a number on the WEBSITE under the contact us button? Duh!



posted by lenl


excuse for interceded but you couldnt be more wrong, the stations want input from the general public so they can evaluate the audiences and who is watchin where. its all about advertising revenue.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19015713
> 
> 
> "Thing is, religious stations don't really (or are not supposed to) care about money as an incentive."
> 
> 
> And there's a bridge in Brooklyn that can be had for good price!!!!!!



Nobody bought it yet? Maybe the sale is pending somewhere.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19023320
> 
> 
> I don't know, I never asked, and no one ever said anything to me.



Blessed are Thou to have such good neighbors.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19041285
> 
> 
> Even if a NY PIZZA is promised?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could it be his Antenna? Or Coax line? Any other cause?



Even if a NY PIZZA is promised?: This is how you treat your invited guests?

Giving them peasant dinner ?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19055713
> 
> 
> Even if a NY PIZZA is promised?: This is how you treat your invited guests?
> 
> Giving them peasant dinner ?



You say that like pizza is a bad thing.










I'd consider making some visits next time I'm in the area if people are willing to cover transportation costs at least, though I definitely won't say no to food too. I took the bus into New York last time I was in town and it was something like $11.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19055348
> 
> 
> posted by lenl
> 
> 
> excuse for interceded but you couldnt be more wrong, the stations want input from the general public so they can evaluate the audiences and who is watchin where. its all about advertising revenue.



Wrong About what? There are no phone numbers listed when you hit the Contact Us button on the Fox 5 NY website. They want an email. I emailed and it went into a black hole. Then I was told to call an engineer. But they don't want you to call. No phone numbers given. I was right and right again.


At least as far as Fox 5 is concerned.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19056550
> 
> 
> Wrong About what? There are no phone numbers listed when you hit the Contact Us button on the Fox 5 NY website. They want an email. I emailed and it went into a black hole. Then I was told to call an engineer. But they don't want you to call.



I would have to agree with LENL, with WCBS being the exception. The problem is is multifaceted. The engineers are busy and short of staff and they are in no position to analyze reception problems except to say "try this or that." The sales people also blame the engineers for lost revenues when consumers complain. Finally the OTA market has been shrinking. So it should not come as a surprise that reception issues are not a high priority for the major stations in NYC (to their credit, WCBS does listen and tries to communicate with disgruntled viewers.) I suspect the same problem exist in the ten largest markets.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

I just looked in my personal phone book and saw two names of Engineers at FOX 5. Called the main number, (212) 452-5555, pressed 0 for the operator and asked to be transferred to engineering. Sure enough I got the voice mail of the very same individual I imagine I spoke to about 8 to 10 years ago. I left him a message. I said I know you guys are busy but if you could call me back I have a quick question. We'll see.


Now that wasn't too hard was it?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/19056876
> 
> 
> I would have to agree with LENL, with WCBS being the exception. The problem is is multifaceted. The engineers are busy and short of staff and they are in no position to analyze reception problems except to say "try this or that." The sales people also blame the engineers for lost revenues when consumers complain. Finally the OTA market has been shrinking. So it should not come as a surprise that reception issues are not a high priority for the major stations in NYC (to their credit, WCBS does listen and tries to communicate with disgruntled viewers.) I suspect the same problem exist in the ten largest markets.



Some people just missed my point but you got it! If stations really want feedback from their customers then they should post phone numbers for OTA folks to call. They should post email addresses that will actually be monitored, read and responded to.


When I read someone looks in his personl phonebook for an old number of a TV station he called in the past and calls a number that also misses the point.


I think OTA is great and could be better if us customers were given just a little respect. It used to be customers mattered. Now greed matters.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

And just like that, I just received a return call from FOX 5 engineer Ed Harris and had a delightful conversation with him. He in fact emphasized that they are very much concerned with comments from all viewers and that includes OTA viewers. I also learned a great deal from our conversation about my particular issues.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19056253
> 
> 
> You say that like pizza is a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd consider making some visits next time I'm in the area if people are willing to cover transportation costs at least, though I definitely won't say no to food too. I took the bus into New York last time I was in town and it was something like $11.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Question: WASA is 24/7 infomercials? Too bad we get this at 80% signal strength. Too bad RTV did not choose them


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19055713
> 
> 
> Even if a NY PIZZA is promised?: This is how you treat your invited guests?
> 
> Giving them peasant dinner ?



NYC Pizza is not just PIZZA. If you lived in NYC you would know that. I was talking about a $20 pie not a $5 Domino special


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19057631
> 
> 
> Question: WASA is 24/7 infomercials? Too bad we get this at 80% signal strength. Too bad RTV did not choose them



Yes it is, and Mike's not too happy, (too funny), with his * Montel Williams HealthMaster Emulsifier *.










Actually, re: RTV, I don't think so, they seem to be using a transmitter from 1952. It breaks up every few minutes. You need to turn to another channel and then back to WASA to re-establish the signal. I don't know, maybe this is happening cause I get it at 100% signal strength?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19057852
> 
> 
> Yes it is, and Mike's not too happy, (too funny), with his * Montel Williams HealthMaster Emulsifier *.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, re: RTV, I don't think so, they seem to be using a transmitter from 1952. It breaks up every few minutes. You need to turn to another channel and then back to WASA to re-establish the signal. I don't know, maybe this is happening cause I get it at 100% signal strength?



One more Curious question.


When did WASA start transmitting? Month or Date?


I ask because not sure we always had this station. Seems a HUGE WASTE 64.1 Infomercials 24/7

64.2 pic of NY


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19057487
> 
> 
> And just like that, I just received a return call from FOX 5 engineer Ed Harris and had a delightful conversation with him. He in fact emphasized that they are very much concerned with comments from all viewers and that includes OTA viewers. I also learned a great deal from our conversation about my particular issues.



I'm happy for you! Did you ask him why if they are so interested in comments from viewers that they don't put his phone number on their website? Hmmmm, simple question to ask and get and answer. I think you are really pulling our legs with your comments. They simply don't stand up to the facts. Their website shows little to no interest or intent to get feedback from customers. Like I said if there really was an interest they would have key phone numbers. They would also get back to you when you send an email. Even simply and acknowledgement.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19057880
> 
> 
> One more Curious question.
> 
> 
> When did WASA start transmitting? Month or Date?
> 
> 
> I ask because not sure we always had this station. Seems a HUGE WASTE 64.1 Infomercials 24/7
> 
> 64.2 pic of NY



Not sure keyboard21, try a Google search. I don't recall WASA before 2010 though.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19058411
> 
> 
> I'm happy for you! Did you ask him why if they are so interested in comments from viewers that they don't put his phone number on their website? Hmmmm, simple question to ask and get and answer. I think you are really pulling our legs with your comments. They simply don't stand up to the facts. Their website shows little to no interest or intent to get feedback from customers. Like I said if there really was an interest they would have key phone numbers. They would also get back to you when you send an email. Even simply and acknowledgment.



I would recommend you give him a call Len, and express your feelings yourself. You've got some good ideas and I'm sure he'd be receptive to them.


----------



## Trip in VA

WASA-LP 64 was an analog in raj's area pre-transition, and moved to channel 25 digital from 4TS near the end of last year. Prior to the transition, channel 25 was WNYE analog.










- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19059242
> 
> 
> WASA-LP 64 was an analog in raj's area pre-transition, and moved to channel 25 digital from 4TS near the end of last year. Prior to the transition, channel 25 was WNYE analog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Ha ha, I was going to say, "Calling Trip, come in Trip, 10-4!!"


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> You need to turn to another channel and then back to WASA to re-establish the signal. I don't know, maybe this is happening cause I get it at 100% signal strength? posted by deadformat



that happens 2 me also, it sort of starts out wavy pattern then it breaks up. i think its their ota is over modulated. i would make a call to wasa engineers but who watches infomercials 24/7 except mike!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19059521
> 
> 
> that happens 2 me also, it sort of starts out wavy pattern then it breaks up. i think its their ota is over modulated. i would make a call to wasa engineers but who watches infomercials 24/7 except mike!



Yup exactly. Something tells me even Mike didn't buy it from watching WASA.


Also, I don't think they've had a phone installed yet.










This is just one of many examples I was referring to when addressing Len. Others that are notorious for having long-term issues aside from 64-1 (25) WASA-LD, 64-2 WASA-LD have been or are ...

*3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD

17.1 (17) WEBR-SD

17.2 WEBR-SD2

17.4 KRB

34-1 (34) WPXO

39-1 (39) WNYN-LD TVL

39-2 TVL

39-3 TVL

39-4 TVL

39-5 HSN

41-1 (41) WNJJ Paterson, N.J.

42-2 WKOB-LP SD2

42-3 WKOB-LP SD3

42-4 WKOB-LP SD4

45-1 WLNY IND

48-1 (48) WRNN-D1

48-2 WRNN-D2 Megatv

48-3 WRNN-D3 arirang

63-1 (18) WMBC DT

63-2 CBS KOREAN

63-3 CGNTV

63-4 MHTV (Off-Air)

63-5 NTDTV World News

63-6 Azteca

66-1 (29) WFME-TV Family Radio

66-2 WFME-FM

66-3 KEAR-AM

66-4 Foreign Language Programming

66-5 RTI (Radio Taiwan International)

66-6 NOAA (National Weather Service)*


----------



## nycdigital09

you get a whole mess of channels, you use wg 9095 yagi for uhf i was gonna get the 9032 but then i saw amazon had some used xg91 for $29 i bought 2 when i got em they were practically new condition wise. im using 1 at the moment it does decent job on uhf, i use to own the 7 ft paraboic years ago, it was the best antenna hands down for dxing i ever used it used to pick up a station that was in annaopolis md, a pbs station, 24/7 150 miles with no problem. i read that cm its bringing back but slow economy is on hold as of now.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19061387
> 
> 
> you get a whole mess of channels, you use wg 9095 yagi for uhf i was gonna get the 9032 but then i saw amazon had some used xg91 for $29 i bought 2 when i got em they were practically new condition wise. im using 1 at the moment it does decent job on uhf, i use to own the 7 ft paraboic years ago, it was the best antenna hands down for dxing i ever used it used to pick up a station that was in annaopolis md, a pbs station, 24/7 150 miles with no problem. i read that cm its bringing back but slow economy is on hold as of now.



What about the * Winegard HD 4400 * which CBS recommended I try before going through the expense of raising my antennas, or the * Winegard HD 8800 *?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19059771
> 
> 
> Yup exactly. Something tells me even Mike didn't buy it from watching WASA.
> 
> 
> Also, I don't think they've had a phone installed yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is just one of many examples I was referring to when addressing Len. Others that are notorious for having long-term issues aside from 64-1 (25) WASA-LD, 64-2 WASA-LD have been or are ...
> 
> *3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD
> 
> 17.1 (17) WEBR-SD
> 
> 17.2 WEBR-SD2
> 
> 17.4 KRB
> 
> 34-1 (34) WPXO
> 
> 39-1 (39) WNYN-LD TVL
> 
> 39-2 TVL
> 
> 39-3 TVL
> 
> 39-4 TVL
> 
> 39-5 HSN
> 
> 41-1 (41) WNJJ Paterson, N.J.
> 
> 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2
> 
> 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3
> 
> 42-4 WKOB-LP SD4
> 
> 45-1 WLNY IND
> 
> 48-1 (48) WRNN-D1
> 
> 48-2 WRNN-D2 Megatv
> 
> 48-3 WRNN-D3 arirang
> 
> 63-1 (18) WMBC DT
> 
> 63-2 CBS KOREAN
> 
> 63-3 CGNTV
> 
> 63-4 MHTV (Off-Air)
> 
> 63-5 NTDTV World News
> 
> 63-6 Azteca
> 
> 66-1 (29) WFME-TV Family Radio
> 
> 66-2 WFME-FM
> 
> 66-3 KEAR-AM
> 
> 66-4 Foreign Language Programming
> 
> 66-5 RTI (Radio Taiwan International)
> 
> 66-6 NOAA (National Weather Service)*



Are you located in NY? Do you get the major channels? CBS ect


What antenna are you using?


WKOB-LD Is showing what now on the 3 different channels. RTV is coming right? Not yet? So what do they show now? Just currious?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> What about the Winegard HD 4400 which CBS recommended I try before going through the expense of raising my antennas, or the Winegard HD 8800?



i haven't tried the 4400 or 8800 what i read about the 8800 supposedly is the best antenna for low uhf band ch 14-30 even better than xg91 or wg 9032.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> WKOB-LD Is showing what now on the 3 different channels. RTV is coming right? Not yet? So what do they show now? Just currious?



daystar programming


----------



## nycdigital09

kb do you have backup plan when time warner cable yanks abc off their lineup on 9/2 ?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19063027
> 
> 
> i haven't tried the 4400 or 8800 what i read about the 8800 supposedly is the best antenna for low uhf band ch 14-30 even better than xg91 or wg 9032.



Thanks NYC!!







Wonder why he recommended those being that CBS is on UHF 33? Hmm, looks like after all the research I did I chose the * wrong antennas *, but again I didn't have these problems when they were 5 and 10 feet higher.


Gary, dude, my location is stated right to the left. See my antennas and channel list in the link above. Updated info for what's on DayStar Erotica now from a previous post here









*42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar

42-2 WKOB-LP Daystar SD2 (Freezing)

42-3 WKOB-LP SD3 (Blinking Call Sign)

42-4 Blank & Awaiting RTV Arrival







*


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19063122
> 
> 
> do you have backup plan when time warner cable yanks abc off their lineup on 9/2 ?




Do you have a link? BTW I do not have Time warner


----------



## nycdigital09

link where ?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Wonder why he recommended those being that CBS is on UHF 33?



post by dfl


i think he was right the 4400 is smaller version of wg8800, it can be had cheaper, similar to xg43 is smaller sibling to xg91


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19064889
> 
> 
> link where ?



That TW plans to pull ABC.


----------



## nycdigital09

youhavechoices.com i think not sure


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19063122
> 
> 
> kb do you have backup plan when time warner cable yanks abc off their lineup on 9/2 ?



u mean "if" twc yanks abc. obviously both sides are negotiating and hope to avoid any channels being pulled. the last high profile negotiations between fox & twc drew attention of politicians and irked viewers. it would be in everyone's best interest to come to an agreement by that date,


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19065778
> 
> 
> u mean "if" twc yanks abc. obviously both sides are negotiating and hope to avoid any channels being pulled. the last high profile negotiations between fox & twc drew attention of politicians and irked viewers. it would be in everyone's best interest to come to an agreement by that date,



I do not use Time Warner. So no sweat off my back. I do feel for others though.


----------



## nycdigital09

trip, i was just glancin at wmbc rf 18 out of little falls, i noticed at bottom they have mod to move to 4ts nyc? also i was thinkin just thinking maybe on rabbitears website, you can have what happened this day in history section for ota, excuse me if hot footed you !!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19067384
> 
> 
> trip, i was just glancin at wmbc rf 18 out of little falls, i noticed at bottom they have mod to move to 4ts nyc?



It's not a CP to move to 4TS, it's a CP to add an on-channel booster on 4TS. So they'd keep the existing transmitter while also adding coverage on Long Island.



> Quote:
> also i was thinkin just thinking maybe on rabbitears website, you can have what happened this day in history section for ota, excuse me if hot footed you !!



It's an interesting thought, but would require some research. Not sure I have the time to put something like that together. EDIT: In fact, it's really interesting. I can't seem to stop thinking about it now.


The site is coded to handle historical data but I simply haven't had the time to dedicate to putting it all together. Not sure I'll ever get to it.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19067485
> 
> 
> It's not a CP to move to 4TS, it's a CP to add an on-channel booster on 4TS. So they'd keep the existing transmitter while also adding coverage on Long Island.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's an interesting thought, but would require some research. Not sure I have the time to put something like that together. EDIT: In fact, it's really interesting. I can't seem to stop thinking about it now.
> 
> 
> The site is coded to handle historical data but I simply haven't had the time to dedicate to putting it all together. Not sure I'll ever get to it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



thxs trip


----------



## nycdigital09

 http://ihavechoices.com/ tw/abc dispute


----------



## NYC10033

This may be old news for some of you, but for people like me, not totally up to date, are you aware of 11-3?


I discovered 11-3, THIS TV, a few weeks ago. It's GREAT.

http://nyc.thistv.com/ 


They have movies, with commercials for bathroom breaks, and OLD TV SHOWS.


Old TV shows like "The Outer Limits", "Sea Hunt", "Highway Patrol", "Mr. Ed", "Patty Duke". This past week the movies were ones with Jeff Bridges.


I finally deleted 64-1 and 2 from my Zenith Conveter box "Favorites".


11-3 is in.


Anyone know when 11-3, THISTV started broadcasting in NYC???????????????


----------



## nycdigital09

yes most of us been watchin for about month or so. i mostly watch it for outer limits like you mention. we're waiting on another channel thats coming to nyc soon retrotv but there is glitch you need vhf antenna a real long antenna.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/19072912
> 
> 
> This may be old news for some of you, but for people like me, not totally up to date, are you aware of 11-3?
> 
> 
> I discovered 11-3, THIS TV, a few weeks ago. It's GREAT.
> 
> http://nyc.thistv.com/
> 
> 
> They have movies, with commercials for bathroom breaks, and OLD TV SHOWS.
> 
> 
> Old TV shows like "The Outer Limits", "Sea Hunt", "Highway Patrol", "Mr. Ed", "Patty Duke". This past week the movies were ones with Jeff Bridges.
> 
> 
> I finally deleted 64-1 and 2 from my Zenith Conveter box "Favorites".
> 
> 
> 11-3 is in.
> 
> 
> Anyone know when 11-3, THISTV started broadcasting in NYC???????????????



Yes it is months old. Since you are behind in your TV scanning. As of last week 45.1 is NEW for OTA it is from long island known as Channel

wlny 10/55 http://wlnytv.com/ 


they just put in a repeater or what ever it is called on trump tower NYC. You should be able to get it.


here is link to the broad casting with a different movie every night


Do another TV scan. In fact unless your tv gets new OTA channels automaticly like the DISHPAL converter box/DVR does. I suggest a TV scan every couple of months.



Also if you get channel 42.1 plus subs. RTV i is coming on that channel "SOON"
http://www.myretrotv.com/


----------



## SnellKrell

"Yes it is months old. Since you are behind in your TV scanning. As of last week 45.1 is NEW for OTA it is from long island known as Channel wlny 10/55."


To be more precise, 45.1 is WLNY-CD, licensed to Mineola, NY (on Long Island) and transmits from atop the Trump World Tower - 1st Avenue, between East 47th and

East 48th Streets in Manhattan.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19074022
> 
> 
> Yes it is months old. Since you are behind in your TV scanning. As of last week 45.1 is NEW for OTA it is from long island known as Channel
> 
> wlny 10/55 http://wlnytv.com/
> 
> 
> they just put in a repeater or what ever it is called on trump tower NYC. You should be able to get it.
> 
> 
> here is link to the broad casting with a different movie every night
> 
> 
> Do another TV scan. In fact unless your tv gets new OTA channels automaticly like the DISHPAL converter box/DVR does. I suggest a TV scan every couple of months.
> 
> 
> 
> Also if you get channel 42.1 plus subs. RTV i is coming on that channel "SOON"
> http://www.myretrotv.com/



i couldn't done it better, nice job kb21, snellkrell


----------



## nycdigital09

snellkrell, you live in ues can you pickup wliw ch21 from your location, you must be up on high floor,?


----------



## SnellKrell

Although I live on a high floor, very rarely can I receive WLIW.


----------



## nycdigital09

same here i can barely get it their signal. it comes via 2 edge, you must got em when it was analog? the channels i can't get are from new jersey. njn 50 or 63 im pretty much sorrouned by coop buildings it comes with territory


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19074062
> 
> 
> "Yes it is months old. Since you are behind in your TV scanning. As of last week 45.1 is NEW for OTA it is from long island known as Channel wlny 10/55."
> 
> 
> To be more precise, 45.1 is WLNY-CD, licensed to Mineola, NY (on Long Island) and transmits from atop the Trump World Tower - 1st Avenue, between East 47th and
> 
> East 48th Streets in Manhattan.



NANANANA I provided a link. So I win lol Just joking.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19074219
> 
> 
> Although I live on a high floor, very rarely can I receive WLIW.



WLIW should do what WLNY did and put a repeater on Trump Tower. Maybe 45.2???


----------



## SnellKrell

WNET/WLIW are in terrible financial shape.


If there were money, WLIW should be on the ESB!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19074369
> 
> 
> WNET/WLIW are in terrible financial shape.
> 
> 
> If there were money, WLIW should be on the ESB!



We would get either. So it does not matter. Just no 42.1 ect


It is a shame they got nice programing for older viewers.


----------



## keyboard21

Would be nice to get a secret surprise like 45.1 was. Of course with RTV finding a new home that I do not get. This officially ends my WISH list.


I do not know what to wish for now. Other then WLIW. That seems like a pipe dream.


Hey Trip in VA- Is there anyother movie or GREAT stations across the USA that might come to NYC? Do you have a wish list?


----------



## DeadFormatLover

* WLIW UPDATE: June 8 & June 17, 2010 *


Still reporting they are transmitting at full power from the ESB.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19074369
> 
> 
> WNET/WLIW are in terrible financial shape.
> 
> 
> If there were money, WLIW should be on the ESB!



Might be time to consider (gasp!) selling WNET/WLIW to a commercial interest. I know there was talk recently that the LA PBS station KCET were considering their options.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19074443
> 
> * WLIW UPDATE: June 8 & June 17, 2010 *
> 
> 
> Still reporting they are transmitting at full power from the ESB.



WLIW has never transmitted from the ESB!


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19074454
> 
> 
> Might be time to consider (gasp!) selling WNET/WLIW to a commercial interest. I know there was talk recently that the LA PBS station KCET were considering their options.



Channel 13, Newark, NJ is allocated as a commercial station. It was commercial for years!


Channel 21, Garden City, NY has always been licensed as non-commercial.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19074501
> 
> 
> WLIW has never transmitted from the ESB!



I know. I realized I had been receiving it from the back-end of my antenna when pointing towards the ESB.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19074528
> 
> 
> I know. I realized I had been receiving it from the back-end of my antenna when pointing towards the ESB.



Makes Sense that PBS stations are doing very badly in this NEW (bad) Economy. Please have less money to give to a TV station. Even if you get a Free toaster with a $175 donation. lol


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19074514
> 
> 
> Channel 13, Newark, NJ is allocated as a commercial station. It was commercial for years!



Which made me think of something. How come the politicians of NJ were ready to challenge WWOR's license when there was talk to moving their studios back to NYC but they never made a peep when WNET moved their studios out of Newark all those years ago?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19074514
> 
> 
> Channel 13, Newark, NJ is allocated as a commercial station. It was commercial for years!
> 
> 
> Channel 21, Garden City, NY has always been licensed as non-commercial.



The two merged some years ago. WLIW had been full HD. It is ironic that now when they occasionally air * Visions *, which they produced, it is not. It is broadcast on * NJN * in HD but only during Pledge-Drives. Then revived as * In Focus: Visions * on HDNet.


----------



## mikepier

Don't know if this was mentioned, but as of today, RetroTV goes HD in Florida:

_On Friday, Aug. 20, RetroTV will become available to more than 4 million Florida viewers with a new high-definition service.


RTV HD will be carried by independents WHDT-CA Miami (DMA 17) and by WHDT Stuart (West Palm Beach-Fort Pierce, DMA 38) on the stations' primary channels. Both stations are owned by Günter Marksteiner.


"As the first RTV HD affiliate, WHDT viewers can watch their favorite old TV shows in studio-grade quality direct from the master archives of RTV," Marksteiner said.


RTV's Neal Ardman added: "We are thrilled to both return to West Palm Beach. Now even more Floridians will be able to watch RTV. We couldn't be happier about launching our first HD feed, it is the beginning of a new era for RTV," he added.


RTV provides each of its affiliate a customized feed with classic hit shows, in addition to local programming including news, weather and sports._

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/08/16/daily.5/ 


Meanwhile, I don't see any mention of this on RTV's website.


I wonder if it could be headed our way


I wish ThisTV would do the same.


----------



## LenL

Just heard on the news last night that the owners of the ESB are about to sue a nearby developer who has plans to build something that is taller than the ESB. The ESB folks are suing because they don't want the views of the ESB lights blocked.


What I was missing was who cares about the lights. What about the OTA TV transmission we are all enjoying now.


This could/should be a concern for all of us OTA people.


Please be alert for any updates and post them on this forum! Thanks!


----------



## SnellKrell

No, the plan is not for a taller building than the ESB!


The building would replace the Pennsylvania Hotel at 7th Avenue, between West 32nd and West 33rd Streets.


The original plan had this new skyscraper, 15 Penn Plaza, rising to 1,216 feet

(67 stories) - 34 feet *shorter* than the top floor (102nd) of the ESB.


There is now a second plan being floated for 15 Penn Plaza having the building rising to 1,190 feet.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19075557
> 
> 
> No, the plan is not for a taller building than the ESB!
> 
> 
> The building would replace the Pennsylvania Hotel at 7th Avenue, between West 32nd and West 33rd Streets.
> 
> 
> The original plan had this new skyscraper, 15 Penn Plaza, rising to 1,216 feet
> 
> (67 stories) - 34 feet *shorter* than the top floor (102nd) of the ESB.
> 
> 
> There is now a second plan being floated for 15 Penn Plaza having the building rising to 1,190 feet.



The broadcasters would be wise to build a new antenna at 15 Penn Plaza whether the base of the tower is @1216' or 1190' because their antennas on ESB are far from optimal and rebuilding them will be expensive, put the OTA service essentially out for a long time and the final result may not be as good as starting from scratch at 15 Penn.


----------



## nycdigital09

15 Penn Plaza i can't see building constructed at that address. so heavily congested area imho


----------



## nycdigital09

much less a mostrousity


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19078958
> 
> 
> much less a mostrousity



GOOD NEWS From RTV. I sent them a kind e-mail. They responded. It was in my spam so I just saw it today. I assume it is ok to post his response. I will not post the persons name. I do not feel I have the right. Even though there is no laws concerning e-mails.


The response:

*I believe we are going to get on cable and increase the coverage area with WKOB's help, but I'm not sure. I forwarded your message to our Affiliate Relations Manager. He may not respond but your concerns and requests will be heard.




Thanks for your interest in Retro TV!
*



So I think the more they hear from us the better. Explaining that WKOB has a small coverage area and most of us can't get it, but want too.


The e-mail addy I used to sent my questions was

[email protected]


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19075500
> 
> 
> Don't know if this was mentioned, but as of today, RetroTV goes HD in Florida:



Sadly, I would strongly doubt RTV will find any affiliate in the Tri-State area that would ever carry their service in HD.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19079915
> 
> 
> Sadly, I would strongly doubt RTV will find any affiliate in the Tri-State area that would ever carry their service in HD.



i read that hd for retro tv is not true hd is only stretched out version, to fill out the screen.


----------



## d3193




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19074567
> 
> 
> Which made me think of something. How come the politicians of NJ were ready to challenge WWOR's license when there was talk to moving their studios back to NYC but they never made a peep when WNET moved their studios out of Newark all those years ago?



The 'peeps' from NJ politicians about WNET's NJ license have always been pretty loud, and for many years Channel 13 has produced programs from and about NJ even though they achieved minute audiences. Once the NJ Network started up and became the state's non-commercial broadcasting network, the argument for insisting that WNET produce NJ oriented programs became harder to make, but 13 is still bound by its agreements.

WOR, Channel 9, when it was sold and renamed WWOR, was relicensed to NJ so that the state would have a VHF commercial station.


Wikipedia has a pretty good article about 13: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNET 

Here's a quote: _Since it still operates on a frequency allocated by the FCC to Newark, WNET has long aired New Jersey-specific programming, a legacy of its agreement with New Jersey state officials that cleared the way for its conversion into New York City's main educational station. Currently, it rebroadcasts New Jersey Network's nightly NJN News, as well as airing Inside Trenton, which WNET co-produces with NJN._


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19080846
> 
> 
> i read that hd for retro tv is not true hd is only stretched out version, to fill out the screen.



If true, no surprise there. I can think of a new cable nets that have an HD feed with *ZERO* HD content.


----------



## keyboard21

Question: Maybe TRP in VA will know this?


My aunt tells me that 55.1 came on the other night for one night only. It was the same programs as 45.1



As of today Nothing comes on 55.1 and 45.1 is still on the air.


Could this of been a test for a move to 55.1 from current 45.1?


If so why? Is it because the station is called TV55?



thanks guys


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19085386
> 
> 
> Question: Maybe TRP in VA will know this?
> 
> 
> My aunt tells me that 55.1 came on the other night for one night only. It was the same programs as 45.1
> 
> 
> 
> As of today Nothing comes on 55.1 and 45.1 is still on the air.
> 
> 
> Could this of been a test for a move to 55.1 from current 45.1?
> 
> 
> If so why? Is it because the station is called TV55?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks guys



it was most likely tropo ducting, i picked up new london ct channel with indoor antenna, the reason is called tv 55 is cos thats what it came in when it broadcasting in analog, I was able to pickup their analog station if i recall


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19085386
> 
> 
> Question: Maybe TRP in VA will know this?
> 
> 
> My aunt tells me that 55.1 came on the other night for one night only. It was the same programs as 45.1
> 
> 
> 
> As of today Nothing comes on 55.1 and 45.1 is still on the air.
> 
> 
> Could this of been a test for a move to 55.1 from current 45.1?
> 
> 
> If so why? Is it because the station is called TV55?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks guys



Unlikely. IT's most likely enhancement caused by atmospheric conditions. Summer weather is conducive to this.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19085386
> 
> 
> Question: Maybe TRP in VA will know this?
> 
> 
> My aunt tells me that 55.1 came on the other night for one night only. It was the same programs as 45.1
> 
> 
> 
> As of today Nothing comes on 55.1 and 45.1 is still on the air.
> 
> 
> Could this of been a test for a move to 55.1 from current 45.1?
> 
> 
> If so why? Is it because the station is called TV55?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks guys



in case u haven't already noticed in a digital world , a stations on air identity has nothing to do with it ota channel number


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19088667
> 
> 
> in case u haven't already noticed in a digital world , a stations on air identity has nothing to do with it ota channel number



Not ALWAYS the case. Channel 41 for example is 41 on cable and 41.1 on OTA


So why wouldn't a channel called 10/55TV not be on virtual channel 55.1? It is channel 10 on cablevision and channel 55 OTA in LI/NY



I think my question was quite reasonable.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Not ALWAYS the case. Channel 41 for example is 41 on cable and 41.1 on OTA
> 
> 
> So why wouldn't a channel called 10/55TV not be on virtual channel 55.1? It is channel 10 on cablevision and channel 55 OTA in LI/NY
> 
> 
> I think my question was quite reasonable.



wxtv is on ota 40, wlny is on ota 47. qualcomm owns license for ota 55 nationwide for doomed service flo tv.


----------



## Trip in VA

Also, I thought WXTV was channel 6 on cable. At least, it is in Fair Lawn NJ.


Translators generally map to major channel numbers of the parent. For example, if the channel 22 transmitter for WCBS ever lights up on Long Island, it will be either 2-1 or 2-2 or something.


But WLNY-CD is not a translator per se, it is licensed as a "Class A" station, and thus can, but is not required to, map the same as its parent station.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19090907
> 
> 
> Also, I thought WXTV was channel 6 on cable. At least, it is in Fair Lawn NJ.
> 
> 
> Translators generally map to major channel numbers of the parent. For example, if the channel 22 transmitter for WCBS ever lights up on Long Island, it will be either 2-1 or 2-2 or something.
> 
> 
> But WLNY-CD is not a translator per se, it is licensed as a "Class A" station, and thus can, but is not required to, map the same as its parent station.
> 
> 
> - Trip



WXTV is on ch 6 on all Cablevision systems and sister station WFTY/WFUT on 17 after a lawsuit many years back. Before Cablevision consolidated their systems and channel lineups, WXTV appeared on 30 or so different slots in the region making it hard to advertise.


Since then the stations appear on their former analog off air channel numbers of 41 or 67/68 or on 6 & 17 on most cable systems. TWC carries them on 41 & 68, Verizon on 17 & 41, RCN on 6 & 17.


----------



## DeadFormatLover


























I just spoke with Neil Ardman at * RTV Affiliates *. RTV will launch on * WKOB Daystar * in about 10 days which would mean September 3rd.


----------



## nycdigital09

did he mention what programming schedule for retro tv full time or part time


----------



## DeadFormatLover

No, he rushed me off the phone in about 15 seconds, said he was late for a meeting.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19094680
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just spoke with Neil Ardman at * RTV Affiliates *. RTV will launch on * WKOB Daystar * in about 10 days which would mean September 3rd.



Great and most of us can't get the bleeping station. Nice


----------



## dvdchance

The schedule is on the website as a pdf file.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> The schedule is on the website as a pdf file. Originally Posted by dvdchance



yes the schedule is on website, but thats not what i want to know, usually the statiion thats carrying rtv programming shows as many shows as they can afford to. infomercials is where they get their revenue, wsah ch 43 bridgeport ct. use to show retro tv programming for only 4 hours each day, the rest of time was infomercials, in others don't expect retro tv programming 24/7. so hence what is their schedule ?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Great and most of us can't get the bleeping station. Originally Posted by keyboard21



you have a pair of rabbitears?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19096463
> 
> 
> you have a pair of rabbitears?



Indoor Terk 55 And we get ALL major stations and Subs. 36 total. All the Majors like cbs come in at 95 to 100%


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Yes, precisely. Here's an example of the * WTEN 10-3 Albany, N.Y. RTV schedule *.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19096644
> 
> 
> Indoor Terk 55 And we get ALL major stations and Subs. 36 total. All the Majors like cbs come in at 95 to 100%



You will need a roof antenna.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19096729
> 
> 
> You will need a roof antenna.



In an apartment building? Does not exist. The old Giant roof antenna was taken down years ago when the building got a kickback from cable co.


So it is indoor antennas or cable. That is the choice.


To be honest. If I had the time I could try a DB4 or C4. This would be more powerful then the Clearstream C2 I tried.


But the only stations I might get in are the two PBS stations in NJ and WKOB. Wkob will only have one good sub and that is RTV. The DB4 Power will greatly be reduced by being inside. Since the Clearstram made NO difference at all. I can not see the DB4 or C4 making a GIANT difference.


Now if we did not get CBS. NBC, ABC, FOX ect. Then I would say it is worth the try. Plus I have to fight my aunt on why she would need a GIANT Db4 inside her Apartment.


I have the Terk 55 behind the dresser. Hidden. I might try to put some tinfoil on the back of the dresser and see if it helps reflect the signal to the antenna.


If you check my posts in the past. You will see where I list the 36 channels. Including subs


I count us as being lucky. Some here can not get some major stations. we get them all in the 90's to 100%


----------



## DeadFormatLover

* FCC Preemption of Restrictions on Placement of Direct Broadcast Satellite, Broadband Radio Service, and Television Broadcast Antennas *


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19097616
> 
> * FCC Preemption of Restrictions on Placement of Direct Broadcast Satellite, Broadband Radio Service, and Television Broadcast Antennas *



You think my aunt will make waves? You smoking something funny.










She likes a peaceful life. Not to fight the world for RTV. She is thrilled with 36 channels.


----------



## nycdigital09

i just tried to get wkob with rabbitears extended to max 40" on each side no go, might try make a long dipole antenna, i think 8 ft would be sufficient? kb21 maybe you should try to move the tv55 stick near the window see what else comes in? just a thought


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19097710
> 
> 
> You think my aunt will make waves? You smoking something funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She likes a peaceful life. Not to fight the world for RTV. She is thrilled with 36 channels.



Ha, ha, I stopped smoking wacky tobaccy about 25 years ago. Sounded as if you were the one who was annoyed you can't receive it. Just thought I'd point out you cannot be denied the right to install an outdoor antenna.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19097738
> 
> 
> i just tried to get wkob with rabbitears extended to max 40" on each side no go, might try make a long dipole antenna, i think 8 ft would be sufficient? kb21 maybe you should try to move the tv55 stick near the window see what else comes in? just a thought



I would be quite surprised if any type indoor antenna picks up WKOB being that it's VHF Channel 2 which is very susceptible to interference in Urban areas unlike the Burbs.


It really is an indication that the FCC did one crappy job when I can receive this beautifully ....

*42-1 (02) WKOB-LP Daystar

42-2 WKOB-LP SD2 Daystar

42-3 WKOB-LP SD3 RTV

42-4 WKOB-LP SD4*


and rarely receive this ....

*2-1 (33) WCBS NY*


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19097738
> 
> 
> i just tried to get wkob with rabbitears extended to max 40" on each side no go, might try make a long dipole antenna, i think 8 ft would be sufficient? kb21 maybe you should try to move the tv55 stick near the window see what else comes in? just a thought



It is and I am going to leave it. Spent long time to find best position. If RTV wants to cheap and go with WKOB. That is there problem.










As My aunt tells me. She watched most of this stuff when it came out Brand NEW. Why does she need to watch RTV and the same stuff again







lol


She does have a point. Listen I would love for her to have RTV. BUt I will not kill myself to get it. They had many better choices for SUBs. They went the cheapest route. I am suprised they did not go even cheaper with 29.1 .2 .3 . 4. 5 .6 .7 .8 .9 GOD knows they got enough subs lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19097846
> 
> 
> Ha, ha, I stopped smoking wacky tobaccy about 25 years ago. Sounded as if you were the one who was annoyed you can't receive it. Just thought I'd point out you cannot be denied the right to install an outdoor antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be quite surprised if any type indoor antenna picks up WKOB being that it's VHF Channel 2 which is very susceptible to interference in Urban areas unlike the Burbs.
> 
> 
> It really is an indication that the FCC did one crappy job when I can receive this beautifully ....
> 
> *42-1 (02) WKOB-LP Daystar
> 
> 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2 Daystar
> 
> 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3 RTV
> 
> 42-4 WKOB-LP SD4*
> 
> 
> and rarely receive this ....
> 
> *2-1 (33) WCBS NY*



Now given the choice of RTV or CBS. You would choose?


We get CBS 100% Yes that is correct 100%


So given the other things that I could not be getting. We are in great shape.


Maybe if WKOB moves to UHF We might get it.


You know my aunt is happy with 45.1 now too and THIS TV.


You think a nice Lady is going to CAMP in front of the landlord with a SIGN? GIVE ME MY RTV! lol










I know she has rights. I also know she wants to get along with the whole building. So she would never make any waves. Legal rights or not.



This why I asked Trp in VA if the WKOB was new or already on the air. I was praying it was new. I knew I did not get it.


----------



## jpru34

I am having problems with Channels 4 and 9 the last few days. All other channels are coming in with the usual strength. I have two questions I am hoping someone here can help me with:


1) Any reason why just 4-1,-4-2, 4-4 and 9-1 are coming in poorly the last few days while others are normal?


2) While 9-1 is coming in poorly, 9-2 (which is the SD version of 9-1) is coming in rock-solid??? I have never seen this before where the main channel is breaking up but the sub is crystal clear. Any possible explanations for this?


Thank you in advance.


----------



## LenL

I'm west of you but I have not seen any changes out here with the stations in question. It could just be weather related for you.


9.2 is transmitted from the same transmitter/antenna as 5.1. So it's signal will be the same as 5.1.


9.1 will be the same as 5.2. As 5.2 is transmitted from the same.


You will see these showing the same signal issues.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19097907
> 
> 
> They went the cheapest route. I am suprised they did not go even cheaper with 29.1 .2 .3 . 4. 5 .6 .7 .8 .9 GOD knows they got enough subs lol



WFME is a non-commercial TV station, and as such *cannot* air commercial networks like RTV.


- Trip


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19098306
> 
> 
> I'm west of you but I have not seen any changes out here with the stations in question. It could just be weather related for you.
> 
> 
> 9.2 is transmitted from the same transmitter/antenna as 5.1. So it's signal will be the same as 5.1.
> 
> 
> 9.1 will be the same as 5.2. As 5.2 is transmitted from the same.
> 
> 
> You will see these showing the same signal issues.



Thanks for the explanation regarding 9.2. As for my issues with picking up 4.1 and 9.1, I'll wait another few days and see if the situation improves and if not I will have to go back to the attic to play with my antenna.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19098191
> 
> 
> I am having problems with Channels 4 and 9 the last few days. All other channels are coming in with the usual strength. I have two questions I am hoping someone here can help me with:
> 
> 
> 1) Any reason why just 4-1,-4-2, 4-4 and 9-1 are coming in poorly the last few days while others are normal?
> 
> 
> 2) While 9-1 is coming in poorly, 9-2 (which is the SD version of 9-1) is coming in rock-solid??? I have never seen this before where the main channel is breaking up but the sub is crystal clear. Any possible explanations for this?
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance.



Since 9/11 and the destruction of the World Trade Towers, every other channel is sharing the transmitter on the ESB with WNYW FOX 5. After 9 long years FOX still hasn't allowed these channels to transmit at the same height on the ESB transmitter. As a result, depending on your location, many of these channels will remain susceptible to weather conditions until they either increase signal strength and/or raised to the same height as WNYW FOX 5. This includes many other frequencies along with WNBC and WWOR.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

* Court Strikes Down FCC Auction Rules *


----------



## nycdigital09

O


> Quote:
> riginally Posted by LenL
> 
> 
> 9.1 will be the same as 5.2. As 5.2 is transmitted from the same



totally disagreement, my signal strength for 9.1 and 9.2 are diffeent on a nornal settin. Ii can get fox sub 9.2 better than my 9.1. main signal they maybe using the same mast/antenna but fox signal is radiating stronger than my9.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19098340
> 
> 
> WFME is a non-commercial TV station, and as such *cannot* air commercial networks like RTV.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I was just making a point.


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19099603
> 
> 
> O
> 
> totally disagreement, my signal strength for 9.1 and 9.2 are diffeent on a nornal settin. Ii can get fox sub 9.2 better than my 9.1. main signal they maybe using the same mast/antenna but fox signal is radiating stronger than my9.



9.1 and 5.2 are, as stated, part of the same signal. They are not transmitted separately as the RF signal for sub-channels is not a separate transmission. Primary and sub-channels are all part of a stream of data, the identification of the data packets as to which channel they belong to is determined by the PSIP data encoded therein.


5.1 and 9.2 are similarly part of a separate transmission.


Since there are separate signals with a cross-carry of the sub-channels, just go by the x.1 signal power for an indication of how the signal is coming in.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> 5.1 and 9.2 are similarly part of a separate transmission



this is my point exactly, separate transmissions, separate signal strength, the subs are not taken to acccount.


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19098941
> 
> 
> Thanks for the explanation regarding 9.2. As for my issues with picking up 4.1 and 9.1, I'll wait another few days and see if the situation improves and if not I will have to go back to the attic to play with my antenna.



Yes, give it a a little time. 4.x has been at reduced power for a few days, judging from my signal readings. RF 38 (9.1/5.2) have been more out than in for me since the end of May. I expect things will improve soon with the new season on the horizon.


I'm 50 miles north of the city, and therefore a bit more sensitive to power levels than the closer in city dwellers.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/19100458
> 
> 
> Yes, give it a a little time. 4.x has been at reduced power for a few days, judging from my signal readings. RF 38 (9.1/5.2) have been more out than in for me since the end of May. I expect things will improve soon with the new season on the horizon.
> 
> 
> I'm 50 miles north of the city, and therefore a bit more sensitive to power levels than the closer in city dwellers.



Are you suggesting that 4.x has been broadcasting at reduced power levels or that the weather is the culprit?


----------



## nycdigital09

jpru34, can you claify if ad is eventually going to rescale the xg91 for chs 14-51 maybe with canada going digital next year? i read recently that there is works for channel master to bring back cm4251 parabolic antenna. imho that would tip the scale for cm.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19101540
> 
> 
> jpru34, can you claify if ad is eventually goint to rescale the xg91 for chs 14-51 maybe with canada going digital next year? i read recently that there is works for channel master to bring back cm4251 parabolic antenna. imho that would tip the scale for cm.



The rescaling of DB-series of bowties is underway. I heard the mention of "CEDIA"...


They told me that no decision has been made on whether or not (much less when) to re-do the 91XG as it is very low volume compared to the other product lines and the economics may not make any sense to invest that much into it since it still is a darn good antenna.


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19100505
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that 4.x has been broadcasting at reduced power levels or that the weather is the culprit?



4.x has been broadcasting at reduced power levels for a number of days. This leaves less headroom to overcome poor atmospheric conditions making it more likely to suffer dropouts or fall off the cliff completely.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/19102166
> 
> 
> 4.x has been broadcasting at reduced power levels for a number of days. This leaves less headroom to overcome poor atmospheric conditions making it more likely to suffer dropouts or fall off the cliff completely.



Thanks Steve. Don't mean to be a pain here, but do you or anyone else here know why they reduced power and when they plan on going back to "full strength"? The wife isn't happy about not receiving 4.....


Alternatively, does anyone know the phone number of the engineers at Channel 4? I tried looking on their website but couldn't find one.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19102199
> 
> 
> Alternatively, does anyone know the phone number of the engineers at Channel 4? I tried looking on their website but couldn't find one.



Btw, the info I relayed in post #12543 was given to me by FOX.


I have a slew of phone numbers for NBC but haven't called any for many many years. I'm sure some of these folks are no longer there, and thus these numbers are defunct.


Main numbers:

(212) 664-4444, (212) 664-2333

Andy Morris Ext. 5587

Randy Hoff Ext. 4737

Bill Murk (212) 664-3299 & (917) 362-3445

Finally (212) 367-8433 - Don't know who this one is for.


Something tells me NBC had become not too receptive to viewers calling engineering, and WPIX has definitely become so.


----------



## jmsnyc

In my setup I am in need of a male to male F coaxial connector. I know I can pick them up at a store I want to use an FM Trap as a substitute cause I have one lying around.


Should the FM trap interfere with OTA reception if I connect it between the antenna and the tuner?


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19102621
> 
> 
> Btw, the info I relayed in post #12543 was given to me by FOX.
> 
> 
> I have a slew of phone numbers for NBC but haven't called any for many many years. I'm sure some of these folks are no longer there, and thus these numbers are defunct.



Thanks for the numbers. I will try calling today and will post here if I am able to get any update on the issue.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Since 9/11 and the destruction of the World Trade Towers, every other channel is sharing the transmitter on the ESB with WNYW FOX 5. After 9 long years FOX still hasn't allowed these channels to transmit at the same height on the ESB transmitter. As a result, depending on your location, many of these channels will remain susceptible to weather conditions until they either increase signal strength and/or raised to the same height as WNYW FOX 5. This includes many other frequencies along with WNBC and WWOR."


In another post, you mention that you received this information from Fox, over the years, I've been in communication with two of the senior Fox RF people at Fox, and the information above is totally in error.


First, transmitters are not shared on the ESB - antennas are, by way of the use of Combiners.


Next. Channel 44 is currently transmitting from 1204' - way lower on the ESB than the other major stations. 44 is planning to move higher to 1391' in the New Year.


To put things in perspective, the UHF Combiner's antenna transmitting 33, 28 and 38 is located at 1302'. The VHF Combiner transmitting 7, 11 and 13 is located at 1328'.


Both considerably higher than 44's current location.


Additionally, Fox does not have any special "control" concerning other stations using antenna space on the ESB.


If any company does, it's NBC. NBC controls the real estate at the top of the Antenna Mast. This NBC antenna had transmitted analog channels 4 and 5. RCA/NBC was the first user of transmitting facilities at the ESB and for a time the only user. The FCC stepped in and threw out RCA/NBC's exclusive use.


For correct information, I suggest you visit www.rabbitears.info - this is where you will be able to see what's truly going on.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/19102875
> 
> 
> In my setup I am in need of a male to male F coaxial connector. I know I can pick them up at a store I want to use an FM Trap as a substitute cause I have one lying around.
> 
> 
> Should the FM trap interfere with OTA reception if I connect it between the antenna and the tuner?



The FM trap should be installed between the antenna and the first powered electronics device be it the tuner or an amplifier.


F-F Male connectors are not easy to find, especially in a retail store. Use a short coax jumper cable, if needed.


----------



## nycdigital09

ProjectSHO89 thxs for update on xg91


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19102621
> 
> 
> Btw, the info I relayed in post #12543 was given to me by FOX.
> 
> 
> I have a slew of phone numbers for NBC but haven't called any for many many years. I'm sure some of these folks are no longer there, and thus these numbers are defunct.



I just got off the phone with NBC. A very polite and friendly gentleman there told me that NBC is fully aware that they have been having "antenna problems" the last few weeks and that they are working to fix it as "diligently as possible." He said a whole bunch of other people have called to complain the last few days as well. I pressed him for a time-frame (days? weeks? months?) as to when it might be fixed but he said he can't provide me with any time-frame.


Well, at least I know for sure now that it isn't anything wrong with my antenna or my set-up at home so now I guess I will just wait it out and won't waste time playing with my antenna in the attic this weekend.


----------



## LenL

If they are having antenna problems it sure has not hit me. I just checked and reception is in the low 90's. I almost never get 4.1 above the low 80s. So whatever happened it benefited me.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19104897
> 
> 
> If they are having antenna problems it sure has not hit me. I just checked and reception is in the low 90's. I almost never get 4.1 above the low 80s. So whatever happened it benefited me.



If there were antenna problem it would affect almost the same way WCBS-RF33, WNBC-RF28 and WOR-RF38 because they all use the same common antenna.


----------



## LenL

How has your reception been? Where are you located?


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/19105502
> 
> 
> If there were antenna problem it would affect almost the same way WCBS-RF33, WNBC-RF28 and WOR-RF38 because they all use the same common antenna.



Well, like I said in a previous post, Channel 9 (WOR) is coming in substantially weaker the last few days, correlating perfectly with the period of time that I have noticed a severe degradation in receiving NBC.


Now, admittedly, I am getting my usual signal on CBS (which I suppose I shouldn't be getting if the combiner antenna is really having problems. Anyhow, like I said, the NBC engineer did tell me they were having "antenna problems" so I have to take him at his word and he said others have been calling as well with these issues.


----------



## DTVintermods

*LENL:*

About 14 miles from ESB. 4th fl. Use 2 Hi-V/UHF indoor antennas of my own design. Reception is solid but the heavy multipath (echoes) leaves me with small SNR margin. So sometimes I need to reorient the antennas for weak channels such as WNET-RF13


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/19105502
> 
> 
> If there were antenna problem it would affect almost the same way WCBS-RF33, WNBC-RF28 and WOR-RF38 because they all use the same common antenna.



The combiner merges several transmitters into one master antenna. Each station's transmitter goes through a port into the combiner, traveling through various elbows, filters, connectors, etc. Maybe the "antenna problem" affects an element of the ch.4 port into the antenna combiner? This nuance may be lost on the station spokesman or average viewer.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/19105751
> 
> 
> The combiner merges several transmitters into one master antenna. Each station's transmitter goes through a port into the combiner, traveling through various elbows, filters, connectors, etc. Maybe the "antenna problem" affects an element of the ch.4 port into the antenna combiner? This nuance may be lost on the station spokesman or average viewer.



Possibly. That would mean that WNBC has a problem between its Tx and the 3-channels multiplexer that feeds the common antenna. But then what about WOR?


----------



## nycdigital09

i need an indoor antenna for wkob ch2 does such antenna exist? if yes who sells it ? preferably a brand name no terk or rca please..


----------



## yobiworld

Just got a new converter box today because my old one stopped picking up channels.


Anyway i got a *Magnavox philco* antenna. For some reason i cant seam to pick up CH 17.1 17.2 BUT CAN PICK UP 17.4. WHY IS THAT???


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/19105800
> 
> 
> Possibly. That would mean that WNBC has a problem between its Tx and the 3-channels multiplexer that feeds the common antenna. But then what about WOR?



Channel 4 and 9 is back to normal both coming in at the exact same percentage right now. Also, CBS is coming in stronger than it was before so I am betting that it was something to do with the combiner and that that was the "antenna problem" the guy was referencing but who really knows???


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Channel 4 and 9 is back to normal both coming in at the exact same percentage right now



posted by jpru34


i think its atmospherics, i'm pickin up tropo tonight,


----------



## Trip in VA

WNBC filed an STA yetserday to operate at 50% power. I'm guessing this is why there are issues.


- Trip


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19108153
> 
> 
> WNBC filed an STA yetserday to operate at 50% power. I'm guessing this is why there are issues.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip. Much appreciated. I tend to believe that that has been the reason behind receiving or not receiving Channel 4 and not tropo (not that I'm an expert on the latter). I only say this because under normal circumstances, I can pick up NBC rock solid even in really bad storms and in all other types of adverse conditions so to not be able to receive it yesterday afternoon when it was clear in NY made little sense to me. This morning reception is rock solid so I hope they don't cut their power in half again.


I searched for the STA on the FCC website but couldn't find it. Do you have any more details on the power cut?


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=47535 


- Trip


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19108838
> 
> http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=47535
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thank Trip! I have not found the FCC's website to be all that user-friendly.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19056253
> 
> 
> You say that like pizza is a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd consider making some visits next time I'm in the area if people are willing to cover transportation costs at least, though I definitely won't say no to food too. I took the bus into New York last time I was in town and it was something like $11.
> 
> 
> - Trip



My motto is -What is good for peasant is good for the kings


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19109730
> 
> 
> My motto is -What is good for peasant is good for the kings



Good were can I send you the MEAD


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19109109
> 
> 
> Thank Trip! I have not found the FCC's website to be all that user-friendly.



Just wait until you have to actually use it to file license data instead of just reading it... it gets really FUN at that point... not.


----------



## nycdigital09

I have heard that RTV will likely debut over one of the sub-channels of over-the-air WKOB-LD Channel 2 (Virtual Channel 42) within 1 - 2 weeks.


----------



## nycdigital09

Trip, any chance that retro tv can be carried by another channel besides wkob, no one can pick wkob signal-- you need a humongous antenna. Help


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19112301
> 
> 
> Trip, any chance that retro tv can be carried by another channel besides wkob, no one is gonna watch it you need a large antenna.



Your question makes no sense. Think about it.


----------



## nycdigital09

it makes sense, mispelled a word can watch it,


----------



## dtv4u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19103482
> 
> 
> "Since 9/11 and the destruction of the World Trade Towers, every other channel is sharing the transmitter on the ESB with WNYW FOX 5. After 9 long years FOX still hasn't allowed these channels to transmit at the same height on the ESB transmitter. As a result, depending on your location, many of these channels will remain susceptible to weather conditions until they either increase signal strength and/or raised to the same height as WNYW FOX 5. This includes many other frequencies along with WNBC and WWOR."
> 
> 
> In another post, you mention that you received this information from Fox, over the years, I've been in communication with two of the senior Fox RF people at Fox, and the information above is totally in error.
> 
> 
> First, transmitters are not shared on the ESB - antennas are, by way of the use of Combiners.
> 
> 
> Next. Channel 44 is currently transmitting from 1204' - way lower on the ESB than the other major stations. 44 is planning to move higher to 1391' in the New Year.
> 
> 
> To put things in perspective, the UHF Combiner's antenna transmitting 33, 28 and 38 is located at 1302'. The VHF Combiner transmitting 7, 11 and 13 is located at 1328'.
> 
> 
> Both considerably higher than 44's current location.
> 
> 
> Additionally, Fox does not have any special "control" concerning other stations using antenna space on the ESB.
> 
> 
> If any company does, it's NBC. NBC controls the real estate at the top of the Antenna Mast. This NBC antenna had transmitted analog channels 4 and 5. RCA/NBC was the first user of transmitting facilities at the ESB and for a time the only user. The FCC stepped in and threw out RCA/NBC's exclusive use.
> 
> 
> For correct information, I suggest you visit www.rabbitears.info - this is where you will be able to see what's truly going on.




Thanks, SnellKrell, for setting the record straight. I would have done so, but haven't had the time to check the forum recently. It always amazes me how some folks can come up with such patently inaccurate information and then post it as if it is the gospel.


To clarify one point, the WNYW-DT 44 antenna is a "unilateral" antenna, consisting of multiple radiators, used only by WNYW. WWOR-DT 38 is "combined" with other stations into the WCBS-DT antenna. But as Gary Molnar states, each of those stations has significant unilateral components in their RF systems before they reach the WCBS-DT antenna. They also operate at different power levels. And, to complicate matters further, the WCBS-DT antenna's performance varies by frequency (or channel) so that even if all the powers were equal, reception at any given receiver location could vary significantly. Specifically, the antenna's radiation pattern varies by channel. The antenna actually consists of multiple radiators, which again perform differently depending on the channel.


To summarize, all of the Empire antenna systems currently represent significant compromises, largely due to the need to cram in digital antennas quickly after 9/11. Some improvements have been made over the years, but truly optimized antennas, taking advantage of the removal of the old obsolete analog antennas will have to wait for a significant "re-stacking" of the Empire antenna systems. That is a herculean effort that will take years to accomplish.


dtv4u


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19112301
> 
> 
> Trip, any chance that retro tv can be carried by another channel besides wkob, no one is gonna watch it you need a large antenna.



Yea well I e-mailed them. I posted the response a page back. No one responded to my post. Not sure anyone read it.


In Short I was told they have plans to improve things.


I can not believe they picked such a bad station. Must of been money.


Shoot even 45.1 had room for sub-stations.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19114056
> 
> 
> Yea well I e-mailed them. I posted the response a page back. No one responded to my post. Not sure anyone read it.
> 
> 
> In Short I was told they have plans to improve things.
> 
> 
> I can not believe they picked such a bad station. Must of been money.
> 
> 
> Shoot even 45.1 had room for sub-stations.



I read all posts in this forum, even yours. I feel almost like I know your aunt










My reading of the posted reply was their means to increase coverage was to get cable carriage of WKOB.


They are a for profit business, they owe it to their owners / stockholders to make decisions based on money.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19114199
> 
> 
> I read all posts in this forum, even yours. I feel almost like I know your aunt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My reading of the posted reply was their means to increase coverage was to get cable carriage of WKOB.
> 
> 
> They are a for profit business, they owe it to their owners / stockholders to make decisions based on money.



BTW I know my Aunt appreciates you guys helping me help her. This is a great forum.


BTW Cablevision always put subs on from the Major carriers. They never put up 11.3 THIS TV. I wonder why?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> posted by keyboard21
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> BTW Cablevision always put subs on from the Major carriers. They never put up 11.3 THIS TV. I wonder why?



I read some other forumthat cable or satellite companies are not required to carry sub channels by fcc, -- just primary channels.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19114335
> 
> 
> posted by keyboard21
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that cable or satellite companies are not required to carry sub channels by fcc, only main channels. so if is not beneficial for them, you are pretty much screwed :>(



My point is they do carry every other sub. They even had 11.1 , 11.2 11.3 When LATV and estrella were the subs.


The do carry WLIW and subs. NBC and subs 13.1 and subs. Ect


I guess they either do not like free Movies or the THIS TV quality is too low.


----------



## nycdigital09

the only cable company that i know carries sub channels is verizon, time warner cable is trash, i'm hoping verizon fios gets here in western queens soon, i've seen fios trucks deploying fiber on telephone poles close to my home. i asked a technician when he is gonna go live, he said september this year


----------



## yobiworld

I have BRAND NEW Magnavox Philco tb100hh9 It picks up ALL channels in my AREA. Except for *WEBR 17.1 17.2. the screen is always dark. In those two Channels*


Every time i scan it picks up ch *WEBR 17.4 but NOT 17.1 17.2. they are all One station.*


PLEASE HELP i dont know what is going on???


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19114408
> 
> 
> I have Magnavox Philco tb100hh9 It picks up ALL channels in my AREA. Except for *WEBR 17.1 17.2. the screen is always dark. In those two Channels*
> 
> 
> Every time i scan it picks up ch *WEBR 17.4 but NOT 17.1 17.2. they are all One station.*
> 
> 
> PLEASE HELP i dont know what is going on???



i can pick up 17.1 17.2 ok, i use zenith 901 stb. i have noticed that when i key in 17.1 on remote 17.4 is greyed out. my opinion is that your stb is having difficulties seeing psip, is having a hard time, finding the maping program, you know who would be a master at this subject trip..


----------



## nycdigital09

yobiworld, wait a few moments, i'm gonna check the channel for you.


----------



## nycdigital09

yobi, looks like your stb only picks audio, 17.4 is only audio, 17.1 17.3 are same programming, 17.2 shows other. you might want to check you signal strength.


----------



## nycdigital09

yobi, i read on the web that box has lots of problems, you should take it back, get a zenith stb


----------



## yobiworld

Oh well thanks guys


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19114527
> 
> 
> Oh well thanks guys



17 is the Korean station no?


----------



## nycdigital09

yobi, how far are you from manhattan thats where 17 is at, your antenna might not be strong enough !!


----------



## nycdigital09

i can't pick nj stations clearly, lots of multipath here, even with xg91. i get lots breakup on 50-1 but i can get their audio fine. probably your signal is weak for that station, 17.1 is low power station, unlike abc, or larger stations


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19114574
> 
> 
> 17 is the Korean station no?



yes, changing the topic here, i been reading how to make a vhf low antenna for channel 2. i'm gonna try making 1, i let you know how it turns out


----------



## nycdigital09

kb you like my moniker --- Over the air reception is a lot like slice of pizza

get it while is hot. its a tribute to you, your always telling trip, that your gonna get him a pizza pie or 2 when he comes to nyc. lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19114642
> 
> 
> kb you like my moniker --- Over the air reception is a lot like slice of pizza
> 
> get it while is hot. its a tribute to you, your always telling trip, that your gonna get him a pizza pie or 2 when he comes to nyc. lol



There are only two, well Three pizza places I would ever go to for the BEST NYC pizza. Not sold by the slice in any of these places. Pies only.


NO I am not talking about ORIGINAL RAYS. Where they have 20 or so stores all claiming to be the original. lol But the tourists love RAYS. That is where I send people I hate. lol


You guys are EXPERTS on OTA. I am on pizza


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19114622
> 
> 
> yes, changing the topic here, i been reading how to make a vhf low antenna for channel 2. i'm gonna try making 1, i let you know how it turns out



Could you post a link and how you plan on putting an extra antenna. Splitter? Won't you lose 3 db of signal?



Is this for the outside or inside?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19115209
> 
> 
> There are only two, well Three pizza places I would ever go to for the BEST NYC pizza. Not sold by the slice in any of these places. Pies only.
> 
> 
> NO I am not talking about ORIGINAL RAYS. Where they have 20 or so stores all claiming to be the original. lol But the tourists love RAYS. That is where I send people I hate. lol
> 
> 
> You guys are EXPERTS on OTA. I am on pizza



thats funny, lol


i heard some pizza place on second avenue in the 90's is the best, the name allude me now.


----------



## nycdigital09

here is one link that i just found but basically you need a long wire size of frequency band, which is 8 ft total length.

http://nathan.chantrell.net/old-stuf...ipole-antenna/


----------



## nycdigital09

is doesnt look difficult i try this weekend, i get some old tv flat cable wire, and splice in the middle like indoor fm dipole, you probably seen the ribbon wire that you attach to your fm stereo, basically thats it.


----------



## nycdigital09

indoors, but you can try outside


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19115221
> 
> 
> thats funny, lol
> 
> 
> i heard some pizza place on second avenue in the 90's is the best, the name allude me now.



Ok this is not the thread to talk about pizza, But I will give you the three names and if you want to talk about it further or ask me questions. Feel free to pm me


1) (Totonnos) http://www.totonnos.com/Aboutus.html 


2) (John's) http://www.yelp.com/biz/johns-pizzeria-new-york-4 


3) (Lombardi's) http://firstpizza.com/ 


Now both John and Totonno worked for Lombardi's in the early 1900's then around 1930 opened there own places from what they learned at Lombardi's which opened 1905.

Very interesting if you ask me. I put them in order of which I like best. Others will agree or disagree. Each place has a loyal fan base all claim their favorites are the best. Bottom line is you can not go wrong with either of these places. All use Coal to cook pizza in 5 minutes. Coal inside the oven next to pizza.


Also Interesting is that Totonnos original place was in Conney Island (still there) AND John's original store is Bleeker st. They both opened a few more places that are nicer inside with same pizza recipe's.


Well I hope the Admins do not mind. As I said pm me for more info or questions. You guys shared so much with me. I will share with you my expertise lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19115239
> 
> 
> here is one link that i just found but basically you need a long wire size of frequency band, which is 8 ft total length.
> 
> http://nathan.chantrell.net/old-stuf...ipole-antenna/



How do you know it will work for channel 2?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19114379
> 
> 
> the only cable company that i know carries sub channels is verizon, time warner cable is trash, i'm hoping verizon fios gets here in western queens soon, i've seen fios trucks deploying fiber on telephone poles close to my home. i asked a technician when he is gonna go live, he said september this year



Cablevision carries the subs of most, but not all of the local stations.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19114574
> 
> 
> 17 is the Korean station no?



Yes the station is korean


And i think it might be the converter box. Since my grandma can receive the channel. Im starting to hate converter boxes. They do stupid things


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19115448
> 
> 
> Yes the station is korean
> 
> 
> And i think it might be the converter box. Since my grandma can receive the channel. Im starting to hate converter boxes. They do stupid things



Yes we have 3 different brands and they all do stupid things. I like the dishpal. Not because it is error proof. I think it is the worst. BUT it adds new stations and subs automatically. So for example 11.3 THIS TV or 45.1 Came on by themselves. I did not have to call my aunt and walk her thru a rescan. Which is hard for her. I am not sure any other box does this?

But because it is prone to freezes. I put it on a power strip next to TV. So no bending for her. Just turn on and off once a few months when it freezes. The dishpal DVR seems more stable for her.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19114379
> 
> 
> the only cable company that i know carries sub channels is verizon, time warner cable is trash, i'm hoping verizon fios gets here in western queens soon, i've seen fios trucks deploying fiber on telephone poles close to my home. i asked a technician when he is gonna go live, he said september this year



While not a NYC cable company (it's a NW NJ cable company) Service Electric carries all of the WNET subs, but none of the others, except for WTBY's subs but they don't actually carry WTBY. Instead they carry the national TBN, JCTV and SOAC feeds, on the expanded basic (digital) tier.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19117510
> 
> 
> While not a NYC cable company (it's a NW NJ cable company) Service Electric carries all of the WNET subs, but none of the others, except for WTBY's subs but they don't actually carry WTBY. Instead they carry the national TBN, JCTV and SOAC feeds, on the expanded basic (digital) tier.



don't my me asking, you get your internet thru same operator? whats your internet speed?


I've read another one your old post i think it was canadian ota site, talkin about antenna design someone mention that wade parabolic goes for 3 grand, you replied for that price it oughta bring you a beer and cigarette when you want one. lol


----------



## nycdigital09

 http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html#hour24 Intense tropo for next couple of days for east coast. should'nt be a shocker with this heat wave we're experiencing lately


----------



## nycdigital09

kb i ran to snag with the antenna for ch 2 it wouldnt work lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19118001
> 
> 
> kb i ran to snag with the antenna for ch 2 it wouldnt work lol



What happened?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19117945
> 
> 
> don't my me asking, you get your internet thru same operator? whats your internet speed?



I do, and the speed is 30Mbit/2Mbit. This is the DOCSIS3 tier at $70/month. It used to be $80/month... but I need the speed so I suck it up and pay. 10M/1M costs $42/month. Modem lease included, but if you use your own modem they don't reduce the price. So I don't. I use theirs.


Their network seems pretty reliable (probably due to the low population density here) but the only problem is that they have caps, which are 100GB per month on the 30M tier... 60GB per month on the 10M tier. They are the only game in town apart from Embarq DSL (5M down here) so they get away with it.


On the flip side, TV doesn't seem to cost too much.... $65.95 for expanded basic which includes everything except a few of what I refer to as "boutique" channels (Fox sports, Disney XD, MTV/VH1 extra channels, Nickelodeon extra channels etc). Equipment wise the first digital box is free (standard def) and I own two of my CableCARDs (S-Cards) so I pay no rental on them. The third CableCARD (M-Card) is for my new Ceton InfiniTV 4 quad tuner MOCUR and costs $3/month.


Customer service wise? They could do better on the phone support because they only have people available by phone from 8AM to 6:30PM. After that you get an answering service which is close to useless. All they ever seem to do is to tell me to unplug and replug the power to the equipment. But if you have a serious problem such as no service at all (tree fell on wire etc) they can dispatch an oncall tech... But I've had problems where I was able to talk to escalation support and they were very supportive and helpful and sent techs to my house to diagnose and fix issues.


They're a family owned cable company, first in the nation actually. John Walson was the guy who put an antenna up on a mountain in Pennsylvania and ran a cable to his appliance store and connected people along the way. Now his sons and daughter own it.



> Quote:
> I've read another one your old post i think it was canadian ota site, talkin about antenna design someone mention that wade parabolic goes for 3 grand, you replied for that price it oughta bring you a beer and cigarette when you want one. lol



I don't think that was me.


----------



## nycdigital09

i got twcnyc 10/512 i pay $46 month it sucks i don't even get 3 mbs had turbo free for 3 months to tried it i didnt notice an increase in speed in any way, and to top it off they tried to hike up my bill for another $10 month, twc is worst imho, they have doc3 but they want your first born. fios can't get here fast enough. the us invented the internet we were numero uno back in 2000. gw bush didnt give a hoot about broadband infrasture, but i really think it was riaa who lobbied not too push broadband speeds (music piracy) any higher. bunch of greedy folks always about the money


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19118675
> 
> 
> i got twcnyc 10/512 i pay $46 month it sucks i don't even get 3 mbs had turbo free for 3 months to tried it i didnt notice an increase in speed in any way, and to top it off they tried to hike up my bill for another $10 month, twc is worst imho, they have doc3 but they want your first born. fios can't here fast enough. we invented internet we should be number uno, but gw bush didnt give a hoot about broadband infrasture, but i really think it was f--- riaa who lobbied not too push broadband speeds any higher. bunch of greedy aholes.



If you think this admin cares about broadband, think again. Their plan is simply a means to hand over TV spectrum and $timulu$ to their telco and cable lobbyist buddies.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19118001
> 
> 
> kb i ran to snag with the antenna for ch 2 it wouldnt work lol



i need to get some insulator for antenna wiring. the way i design the antenna it was out of phase, i don't know if eventually this rig will work, being that channel 2 frequency is on low vfh. which has lots of interference and noise, additionally i have the antenna indoors, which really hinders me it should be outside to get as far away from noise as possbile. is hit or miss at best


ps wkob has to move to rf 42 or they gonna go broke


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19118725
> 
> 
> If you think this admin cares about broadband, think again. Their plan is simply a means to hand over TV spectrum and $timulu$ to their telco and cable lobbyist buddies.



to paraphase the fonz i think you're correcto mondo.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19117983
> 
> http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html#hour24 Intense tropo for next couple of days for east coast. should'nt be a shocker with this heat wave we're experiencing lately



I just did a scan, and now I get 52.1 WNJT-DT out of Trenton.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19118806
> 
> 
> I just did a scan, and now I get 52.1 WNJT-DT out of Trenton.



cool, any philly stations, coming in yet i'm getting wsah 43 w/ indoor antenna, someone on hartford forum mention earlier that wedw ch 49 bridgeport, there is a new sub channel 49-3 i have not checked yet. could it be retrotv ? lol


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19118861
> 
> 
> cool, any philly stations, coming in yet i'm getting wsah 43 w/ indoor antenna, someone on hartford forum mention earlier that wedw ch 49 bridgeport, there is a new sub channel 49-3 i have not checked yet. could it be retrotv ? lol



subchannel of WEDW is "create"..same as WLIW. If they add something else it will be other PBS programming either VME or Kids which is already carried by WNET.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19118755
> 
> 
> i need to get some insulator for antenna wiring. the way i design the antenna it was out of phase, i don't know if eventually this rig will work, being that channel 2 frequency is on low vfh. which has lots of interference and noise, additionally i have the antenna indoors, which really hinders me it should be outside to get as far away from noise as possbile. is hit or miss at best
> 
> 
> ps wkob has to move to rf 42 or they gonna go broke



they would go broke IF they move to channel 42 just from paying the higher power bill. this is a B.S. station looking to get carriage on cable. they know their OTA station will reach no one. unless TWC picks them up they will be out of business in months.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19115209
> 
> 
> There are only two, well Three pizza places I would ever go to for the BEST NYC pizza. Not sold by the slice in any of these places. Pies only.
> 
> 
> NO I am not talking about ORIGINAL RAYS. Where they have 20 or so stores all claiming to be the original. lol But the tourists love RAYS. That is where I send people I hate. lol
> 
> 
> You guys are EXPERTS on OTA. I am on pizza



L&B Spumoni Gardens makes the best pizza (square slices) I have ever eaten. - http://spumonigardens.com/home.html 


Difara in Midwood has a excellent reputation. http://www.difara.com/ 


I've had it and while it was good, it didn't really stand out.



Nanuet Hotel pizza (thin crust) is also excellent pizza. (Rockland County, NY)


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19119745
> 
> 
> subchannel of WEDW is "create"..same as WLIW. If they add something else it will be other PBS programming either VME or Kids which is already carried by WNET.



i was kidding about retrotv, they allready have create on 49-2 btw, the pq is horrible, unlike wliw create, which is broadcast with more bandwith,i was hoping they add pbs encore.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19110329
> 
> 
> Good were can I send you the MEAD



Actually, I have never ever eaten pizza, though I like only the bread on oven with pigs grease and garlic and salt, uuhmmm.

But invite Trip, he would love it or R.F. Burns, he seems to be expert on pizza as you are, enjoy


----------



## nycdigital09

last night i was receiving wkob channel 2 thru my uhf antenna direct xg91, never tried to pickup channel 2 thru this antenna before would another xg91 user can confirm if does normally receive low vhf. or was it a one time deal. ty


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> i was kidding about retrotv, they allready have create on 49-2 btw, the pq is horrible, unlike wliw create, which is broadcast with more bandwith,i was hoping they add pbs encore.



can u pick up cptv? last I checked create was on both subchannels. seems one has higher bit rate than other.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19127458
> 
> 
> can u pick up cptv? last I checked create was on both subchannels. seems one has higher bit rate than other.



WHat channel is CPTV?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19127458
> 
> 
> can u pick up cptv? last I checked create was on both subchannels. seems one has higher bit rate than other.



i get ch 49 wedw, antennaweb says i shouldn;t be avail to get cptv, but wedw is my sharpest and strongest signal, im 50 miles away, it must be long island sound, as tv signal travels the best over water, i can get wsah, with a bit less power, i get wcct ch20 some of time, usually with a little bit tropo. create on wliw ch 21 is much clearer than wedw's create that was my point,


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19127458
> 
> 
> can u pick up cptv? last I checked create was on both subchannels. seems one has higher bit rate than other.



cptv is pbs affilliate out of connecticut, i'm pretty sure cablevision out in long island carries their signal, they pretty much facsimie wnet ch 13 programming.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> cptv is pbs affilliate out of connecticut, i'm pretty sure cablevision out in long island carries their signal, they pretty much facsimie wnet ch 13 programming.



cablevision in LI doesn't carry cptv even though it's signal reaches north shore. it's not within the NYC DMA. cv has a history of fighting with every station seeking carriage. most recently they lost a ruling on carriage of RNN.


every CT cable system carries one of the cptv stations, similar to how every NJ cable system carries of the the NJN stations. some systems in NY adjacent to CT I believe carry cptv.


----------



## StudioTech

This was taken from the 'Hot off the Press' thread. I'm sure many in here, including myself will be interested in seeing this.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dad1153* /forum/post/19129089
> 
> *TV Notes*
> *Tribune Broadcasting to Launch 'Antenna TV'*
> 
> By Katy Bachman, *Mediaweek.com*
> 
> 
> Tribune Broadcasting is set to launch at the beginning of next year, Antenna TV, a digital network of classic TV shows, many of which were popular in the days before cable wiped out antennas. The network will air as a digital multicast channel on Tribune's stations beginning Jan. 3, 2011, but will also be offered to other non-Tribune-owned stations.
> 
> 
> Some of the movies and TV classic that will air on the network include Three's Company, All in the Family, Sanford and Son, Benny Hill, Maude, The Nanny, Married with Children, Dennis the Menace, The Donna Reed Show and The Three Stooges.
> 
> 
> "Tribune is committed to making full use of our bandwidth to offer viewers a broad spectrum of programming," said Sean Compton, president of programming for Tribune.
> 
> 
> Earlier this year, Tribune expanded its relationship with MGM to launch THIS TV, a digital channel of classic movies.
> 
> http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/content_...d82ff62bc3b512


----------



## DeadFormatLover

This is marvelous news. It's too bad we are stuck with WPIX as our Tribune affiliate as it's quite obvious they wanted no part of thisTV with their embarrassing worse than YouTube picture quality. Hopefully, Tribune can find another affiliate here in NY that will be proud to carry 'Antenna TV' programming.


----------



## StudioTech

What makes you think Tribune wouldn't put it on WPIX, a station they own? I would imagine that Antenna TV will replace Estrella TV come January.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19129314
> 
> 
> What makes you think Tribune wouldn't put it on WPIX, a station they own? I would imagine that Antenna TV will replace Estrella TV come January.



Doesn't WPIX get paid to carry Estrella? Maybe thisTV will go top make room for Antenna TV? I doubt they would want to loose that easy cash, as well as we don't know how long they are contracted to carry Estrella.


----------



## StudioTech

I doubt they would carry 3 subchannels. I don't think any of the Tribune stations have ever carried more than two.


----------



## yobiworld

Well this sounds better then RTV and there corny Tv shows. I dont have a clue as to why everyone wants RTV


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19132014
> 
> 
> I doubt they would carry 3 subchannels. I don't think any of the Tribune stations have ever carried more than two.


*

Tribune Co., following the lead of WCIU-Ch. 26 parent Weigel Broadcasting, is launching Antenna TV to supply digital subchannel programming for local TV stations, beginning Jan. 3.*

*


Tribune Broadcasting is set to launch at the beginning of next year, Antenna TV, a digital network of classic TV shows, many of which were popular in the days before cable wiped out antennas. The network will air as a digital multicast channel on Tribune's stations beginning Jan. 3, 2011, but will also be offered to other non-Tribune-owned stations.


Some of the movies and TV classic that will air on the network include Three's Company, All in the Family, Sanford and Son, Benny Hill, Maude, The Nanny, Married with Children, Dennis the Menace, The Donna Reed Show and The Three Stooges.*


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19129257
> 
> 
> This is marvelous news. It's too bad we are stuck with WPIX as our Tribune affiliate as it's quite obvious they wanted no part of thisTV with their embarrassing worse than YouTube picture quality. Hopefully, Tribune can find another affiliate here in NY that will be proud to carry 'Antenna TV' programming.



WHY wouldn't Tribune put this on WPIX? They own WPIX no?


*"The addition of Antenna TV offers a strong compliment to THIS TV and to our station's existing programming," said Compton.*


----------



## StudioTech

Keyboard, if you're gonna post something similar to what I already posted, at least post the link to it.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

WPIX has a huge Hispanic viewer base, and are a CW affiliate of Tribune Broadcasting. Does that mean they must add whatever sub-channel Tribune dictates? I don't know. It seems obvious they begrudgingly added thisTV, (though recently they have added commercials for their upcoming CW programs), but certainly do not have to provide adequate bandwidth to any sub-channel they add otherwise Tribune would have forced PIX to correct the horrendous PQ on thisTV. Perhaps Estrella TV will move to WXTV UNI, WNJU Telemundo or WFUT where it more fittingly belongs.


The past few nights ...
*20-1 (20) WCCT CW

20-2 thisTV*

... has been coming in rock solid and the difference in PQ on thisTV is alarming.


I was looking back at my old channel lists, and WPXN seems to have been the only channel in the NY market that once had 1 HD channel and three subs, then removed 31-4 Worship sometime early this year.

*31-1 WPXN (31) ION

31-2 qubo

31-3 IONLife

31-4 Worship*


This could be why Tribune added this sentence to their news report ...

_"The network will air as a digital multicast channel on Tribune's stations beginning Jan. 3, 2011, but will also be offered to other non-Tribune-owned stations."_


I would hope they do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribune_Broadcasting


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19133897
> 
> 
> Perhaps Estrella TV will move to WXTV UNI, WNJU Telemundo or WFUT where it more fittingly belongs.



None of them are going to air a competing Spanish language network. If/when PIX drops them, it'll most likely air on WASA-LD.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Ahhh, ok, but have you ever tried watching WASA? The picture breaks up every other minute and you have go to another channel and then turn back to stabilize it, only to see it break up again. They'll probably buy a new transmitter in about a decade, that is if they're not eliminated when the UHF spectrum sell-off begins.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19134092
> 
> 
> None of them are going to air a competing Spanish language network. If/when PIX drops them, it'll most likely air on WASA-LD.



i don't think that's happening, if anyone is moving is thistv. they gonna get the boot by december, coming in antenna tv.







ps estrella tv is staying lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19137639
> 
> 
> i don't think that's happening, if anyone is moving is thistv. they gonna get the boot by december, coming in antenna tv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ps estrella tv is staying lol



I do not feel that at all. Maybe this is why THIS TV is at such a low bit-rate. Back to 3 subs? Maybe


----------



## yobiworld

Im picking up ch 28 wlwc is anyone else getting this??


THIS HAS LATV BUT IT KEEPS BREAKING UP


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19133897
> 
> 
> The past few nights ...
> *20-1 (20) WCCT CW
> 
> 20-2 thisTV*
> 
> ... has been coming in rock solid and the difference in PQ on thisTV is alarming.



I just came back from my place upstate and THISTV is on WRGB-DT 6.2, and I agree, the PQ is like night and day.


----------



## dvdchance

Just wondering but did WTBY-TV Ch 54 Poughkeepsie increase power? I've never before gotten it here in central NJ but it's coming it real strong this morning. No breakups just a solid signal in the 60-70% range on my DTVPal DVR.


Could it be effects from weather or did they increase power?


----------



## Trip in VA

The hurricane is making lots of things stronger.


- Trip


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19140172
> 
> 
> The hurricane is making lots of things stronger.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip again your right as usual.


Just checked again, now WTBY is gone and the station shows zero signal. Funny that the signal stayed so strong and constant for an extended time period. Usually when I've received out of market signals, since the switchover to all digital, they never stay strong enough to decode without breaking up for very long.


----------



## LenL

I don't know what happened at the ESB but CBS went out around 11:30 and then came back weak and unwatchable for another hour or so. Its fine now.


----------



## yobiworld

My converter box is acting strange. Picking up stations that should NOT be there especially considering the distance. Channels disappearing and then reappearing.


very weird


----------



## Trip in VA

The hurricane is causing tropospheric ducting. You'll find a number of stations from up and down the coast coming in until it's gone, likely wiping out local signals in the process.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19142725
> 
> 
> The hurricane is causing tropospheric ducting. You'll find a number of stations from up and down the coast coming in until it's gone, likely wiping out local signals in the process.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yeah certainly looks that way. The usual philly suspects are coming in, including WPVI super strong on the HDHR... and I don't have a low VHF antenna and none of my antennas are pointed to philly.


Something is also killing WABC-7 (usually very strong here) and WNYW 44. Oh well at least I have one ABC station.


----------



## raj2001

For the first time I'm getting WTXF as well...


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19143057
> 
> 
> Yeah certainly looks that way. The usual philly suspects are coming in, including WPVI super strong on the HDHR... and I don't have a low VHF antenna and none of my antennas are pointed to philly.
> 
> 
> Something is also killing WABC-7 (usually very strong here) and WNYW 44. Oh well at least I have one ABC station.



I can pickup wkob, rf ch 2 with 91xg, which is way cool i don't need vfh-lo antenna anymore. i can see why 91 is a damn good antenna


----------



## raj2001

WKOB would be receivable here if I have an antenna... unfortunately Daystar is not a station I am really interested in receiving.


WPVI still coming in strong here, and now WNYW is back to normal. In fact it's better than ever... 100% on the HDHR.


----------



## raj2001

Wow, what an opening! WTNH-DT is coming in extremely strong here...


----------



## raj2001

And for the first time ever I'm seeing WNJU over W36AZ...


And WLNY too... wow


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19142725
> 
> 
> The hurricane is causing tropospheric ducting. You'll find a number of stations from up and down the coast coming in until it's gone, likely wiping out local signals in the process.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Why cant they make it so that we could receive channels from other states farther away??


----------



## jzareski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19119745
> 
> 
> subchannel of WEDW is "create"..same as WLIW. If they add something else it will be other PBS programming either VME or Kids which is already carried by WNET.



FYI,


On Friday September 3, 2010 at 10:56 AM EDT, CPTV4U was "soft" launched on the -2 service while CPTV Create continues now on the -3 service.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19143678
> 
> 
> Why cant they make it so that we could receive channels from other states farther away??



How about first they make it so everyone can pick up all the locals consistently.


2010 New York OTA Report Card ...

*A*
*B*
*C*
*D*
*E*
*F*


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jzareski* /forum/post/19143714
> 
> 
> FYI,
> 
> 
> On Friday September 3, 2010 at 10:56 AM EDT, CPTV4U was "soft" launched on the -2 service while CPTV Create continues now on the -3 service.



Very cool, watching it now. Hasn't been added to their * daily schedule * yet. Love CPTV, too bad once the cold weather begins, it'll be gone until next spring.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19143790
> 
> 
> Very cool, watching it now. Hasn't been added to their * daily schedule * yet. Love CPTV, too bad once the cold weather begins, it'll be gone until next spring.



Do you know what it is about cold weather that impacts reception? I have had for the most part excellent reception for all the major stations since April/May. I think that was the case the previous year too. Then around Oct/Nov the reception goes bad for some of the stations...not all but some. I maybe jumping the gun on this and I should wait and see what happens. But is there a cold weather affect?


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Well, I'm no expect as evidenced by the scolding I received a few pages back by two of our resident talking tech-heads, but basically digital tv is not at all what it was cracked up to be. In the analog days I can recall just a handful of occasions when only severe weather conditions affected tv signals, not simply cold weather.


With digital, if you're not located at a high elevation with a clear line of sight within a certain distance, you're flat out of luck. We each receive specific channels better than others, and those channels will most likely never be affected by the cold. In my case, I have no issues with anything transmitted on the VHF band and loads of issues with those on the UHF band, while others just the opposite.


The weaker and further away the signal, the more cold weather affects it. I'm sure one of the technical experts like Trip will explain why, but Dx'ing was sure a lot more fun in the analog days.


Don't get me wrong, I love DTV, however I wouldn't recommend it to anyone out here until the proper corrections are made at the ESB. I spent a great deal of money on my antenna systems and get a lot of headaches for it. Had I known in advance that many of the towns of North Hempstead Long Island were in a dead pocket, I never would have bothered.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19145845
> 
> 
> Well, I'm no expect as evidenced by the scolding I received a few pages back by two of our resident talking tech-heads, but basically digital tv is not at all what it was cracked up to be. In the analog days I can recall just a handful of occasions when only severe weather conditions affected tv signals, not simply cold weather.
> 
> 
> With digital, if you're not located at a high elevation with a clear line of sight within a certain distance, you're flat out of luck. We each receive specific channels better than others, and those channels will most likely never be affected by the cold. In my case, I have no issues with anything transmitted on the VHF band and loads of issues with those on the UHF band, while others just the opposite.
> 
> 
> The weaker and further away the signal, the more cold weather affects it. I'm sure one of the technical experts like Trip will explain why, but Dx'ing was sure a lot more fun in the analog days.
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love DTV, however I wouldn't recommend it to anyone out here until the proper corrections are made at the ESB. I spent a great deal of money on my antenna systems and get a lot of headaches for it. Had I known in advance that many of the towns of North Hempstead Long Island were in a dead pocket, I never would have bothered.



I never heard anything about cold weather, except it improved reception. I been wrong about so many things about DTV. Just add this one to the list.


I guess it is because we are just 7 miles from ESB. We have no problem with reception. I would think no matter what antenna's you have. When you are 30 plus miles away. You will have some problems and it gets worse as you increase distance.


For us DTV has been GREAT. IN analog ALL low VHF was bad. Channel 2 being the worst. Followed by 4 and 5. From 7 on. We always had good reception. Now with DTV we get 36 channels (including subs) ALL with digital quality. The added subs are just a bonus. The quality is a fast improvement for us.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19146006
> 
> 
> I never heard anything about cold weather, except it improved reception. I been wrong about so many things about DTV. Just add this one to the list.
> 
> 
> I guess it is because we are just 7 miles from ESB. We have no problem with reception. I would think no matter what antenna's you have. When you are 30 plus miles away. You will have some problems and it gets worse as you increase distance.
> 
> 
> For us DTV has been GREAT. IN analog ALL low VHF was bad. Channel 2 being the worst. Followed by 4 and 5. From 7 on. We always had good reception. Now with DTV we get 36 channels (including subs) ALL with digital quality. The added subs are just a bonus. The quality is a fast improvement for us.



i have to agree cold weather like 40 degrees, (not lower or its gets worse). can be better for dtv reception, when you get a tropo opening in the winter time, it can last few days. the only problem with summer is that dtv reception can really suck if you have tree folliage blocking los..


----------



## snafu7x7

We live in a small apt so outdoor/roof antennas are not an option. However one whole wall of our apartment is windows so I could conceivably find a way to mount an antenna there if it would help my reception. My windows face NW and I live in West Harlem, 5th floor so there aren't a lot of tall buildings around and nothing immediately in front of us so I'm cautiously optimistic that it might work OK.


Our TV room has a door leading to a small balcony and above the door is one of those transom style windows (all glass) about 3 feet by 1 foot so that would be the ideal place to mount it.


I'm looking for suggestions and advice on if you think this will work OK and what make/model of antenna I should try?


thanks alot!


----------



## nycdigital09

snafu7x7 it depends what type of reception your looking for local channels or distant reception. if you want just local i would go try just rabbitears and see what you can receive, i use a terk 1 rabbitears antenna. its minimal in cost and works decent i'm 7 miles out in queens i get everything local. if you want to get antenna for reception, the *best advice* i can give you is make sure that if you purchase antenna, is that the seller will be able to take it back if it doesnt suit you.


----------



## SnellKrell

Terk 1 is no longer manufactured but is available. It's meant for VHF channels. You may be able to pick up UHF - CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. with it. I use the Terk 1 along with a Silver Sensor indoor antenna for UHF. Terk does make a comination antenna that combines VHF rabbit ears with a UHF antenna that's clone of the Silver Sensor - it's the HDTVi.


With your windows facing NW and that's the wall where you plan to place the antenna, you're 180 degrees away from the Empire State Building, where the majority of the stations that you probably will want t watch, transmit.


As was suggested, make sure you can return any antenna you buy. You'll have to experiment. Wish you well!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snafu7x7* /forum/post/19148074
> 
> 
> We live in a small apt so outdoor/roof antennas are not an option. However one whole wall of our apartment is windows so I could conceivably find a way to mount an antenna there if it would help my reception. My windows face NW and I live in West Harlem, 5th floor so there aren't a lot of tall buildings around and nothing immediately in front of us so I'm cautiously optimistic that it might work OK.
> 
> 
> Our TV room has a door leading to a small balcony and above the door is one of those transom style windows (all glass) about 3 feet by 1 foot so that would be the ideal place to mount it.
> 
> 
> I'm looking for suggestions and advice on if you think this will work OK and what make/model of antenna I should try?
> 
> 
> thanks alot!



If you can afford it, spare yourself the aggravation and subscribe to basic Cable or Satellite.


----------



## nycdigital09

DeadFormatLover you said that cptv sub 4 is showing what create ? any whiff of retro tv on kob ?


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 u r right on-- went to lombardi on spring st today, had 2 pies with pep, very very good. loyal customer haha


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19149421
> 
> 
> DeadFormatLover you said that cptv sub 4 is showing what create ? any whiff of retro tv on kob ?



It's actually 49-2, with Create moving to 49-3. * CPBN Launches a New Broadcast Channel, CPTV4U New Channel Gives Viewers What They've Been Asking ForMORE! * Can't receive CPTV on my end right now tonight.


When I spoke with Affiliates at WKOB I was told within about 10 days which would have been Sept. 3rd. Within the past 2 days 42-3 has gone dark, so I'm thinking perhaps RTV will launch there Tuesday morning at midnight, just as Labor Day ends, but not holding my breath.


----------



## snafu7x7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19149401
> 
> 
> If you can afford it, spare yourself the aggravation and subscribe to basic Cable or Satellite.



we did away with our cable provider months ago and couldn't be happier...only reason I want TV is that I'm a huge sports fan and football and hockey season are fast approaching so I was hoping to get these games OTA


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19149430
> 
> 
> kb21 u r right on-- went to lombardi on spring st today, had 2 pies with pep, very very good. loyal customer haha



Well Now you got to try John's and Tortonno's. Then you can be one of us who fight on who is the best.


Remember Both John and Tortonno worked for Lombardi in the 1920's. Then took what they learned and opened their own places.


I am so happy you were not disappointed.



Unfortunately for you. You will never want to go back to cheap places again lol.


----------



## nycdigital09

I am so happy you were not disappointed. originally posted by keyboard 21.


what can i say, it was once in lifetime experience. lol


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snafu7x7* /forum/post/19151810
> 
> 
> we did away with our cable provider months ago and couldn't be happier...only reason I want TV is that I'm a huge sports fan and football and hockey season are fast approaching so I was hoping to get these games OTA



football you can watch ota, hockey i don't think so, they only show it on cable ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19152333
> 
> 
> football you can watch ota, hockey i don't think so, they only show it on cable ?



I think the NEXT evolution is to offer real time sports for a small fee on units like Apple TV and Xbox. They got nextflixnow.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19152333
> 
> 
> football you can watch ota, hockey i don't think so, they only show it on cable ?



NBC occasionally shows hockey games on Sat or Sundays I think.


But I would try going to Radio Shack and getting a cheap bowtie antenna for like $4 and try that first. I had good luck picking up both UHF and VHF. Being that you face NW, try pointing the antenna off a building, the signal might bounce off of that.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19152445
> 
> 
> NBC occasionally shows hockey games on Sat or Sundays I think.
> 
> 
> But I would try going to Radio Shack and getting a cheap bowtie antenna for like $4 and try that first. I had good luck picking up both UHF and VHF. Being that you face NW, try pointing the antenna off a building, the signal might bounce off of that.



Well no one else likes the TERK-55 , but it has been the best antenna we used. But we are in queens and not NYC. Can always try one from J&R and if no work return it. Then buy it from Amazon for $60 and not $100 imo


----------



## SnellKrell

"But we are in queens and not NYC."


Hello!?


Queens County is part of New York City!!!!!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19152792
> 
> 
> "But we are in queens and not NYC."
> 
> 
> Hello!?
> 
> 
> Queens County is part of New York City!!!!!



It is not Manhattan. There is a difference with multipath issues


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19145845
> 
> 
> With digital, if you're not located at a high elevation with a clear line of sight within a certain distance, you're flat out of luck.



Yeah dude, you're right.









http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...a3628316a38a65


----------



## jpru34

Having problems tonight with 11 and 13. Other stations are full strength. I'm assuming this isn't coincidental since they are both VHF (although Channel 7 is coming in full strength). No idea what the cause of these problems are.


----------



## raj2001

Not doubting you, but they are fine here.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19153723
> 
> 
> Not doubting you, but they are fine here.



Thanks Raj. It turns out that I was the responsible party for me not receiving 11 and 13. After a bit of tinkering, i discovered that I was introducing too much electronic interference into the line by running a really long USB cord (along with a short RG6 cable) from my TV tuner into my laptop where I wanted to watch TV. I think the solution is to instead run a long RG6 cable and plug the Tuner directly into the laptop. Now the only question is why the electronic interference only affected 11 and 13 and not any of my other channels (and 11 and 13 are NOT my weakest channels).


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19153788
> 
> 
> Thanks Raj. It turns out that I was the responsible party for me not receiving 11 and 13. After a bit of tinkering, i discovered that I was introducing too much electronic interference into the line by running a really long USB cord (along with a short RG6 cable) from my TV tuner into my laptop where I wanted to watch TV. I think the solution is to instead run a long RG6 cable and plug the Tuner directly into the laptop. Now the only question is why the electronic interference only affected 11 and 13 and not any of my other channels (and 11 and 13 are NOT my weakest channels).



I was once told any RG6 longer then 25 feet. Should have a pre-amp


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19145845
> 
> 
> With digital, if you're not located at a high elevation with a clear line of sight within a certain distance, you're flat out of luck.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19153315
> 
> 
> Yeah dude, you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...a3628316a38a65



I sure am relieved I passed the SnellKrell approval test.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snafu7x7* /forum/post/19151810
> 
> 
> we did away with our cable provider months ago and couldn't be happier...only reason I want TV is that I'm a huge sports fan and football and hockey season are fast approaching so I was hoping to get these games OTA



Glad to hear things ultimately worked out for you, and if you had Crime Warner cable, I guess I can understand why you did away with them. Cablevision makes them look good, and that's saying a lot. I must say however, I don't know how any of you guys can get by without the fantastic array of programming that Cable & Satellite offer, I would go nuts with only OTA.

* Your Potential 2010-11 NHL On NBC Schedule *


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19153315
> 
> 
> Yeah dude, you're right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...a3628316a38a65



thats one of the worst tv fool reports i seen how do you even get a tv signal. every channel is close to minus on noise margin db wise.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19154217
> 
> 
> I sure am relieved I passed the SnellKrell approval test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to hear things ultimately worked out for you, and if you had Crime Warner cable, I guess I can understand why you did away with them. Cablevision makes them look good, and that's saying a lot. I must say however, I don't know how any of you guys can get by without the fantastic array of programming that Cable & Satellite offer, I would go nuts with only OTA.
> 
> * Your Potential 2010-11 NHL On NBC Schedule *



true it would be hard to give up history channel and directv sports package


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19154731
> 
> 
> true it would be hard to give up history channel and directv sports package



Only History? Geez, I could list about 35 networks but I don't want this to turn into an advertisement for Cable & Satellite.










Two







questions for you guys who have been here much longer than me ...


1. When you Login to this forum, does your User Name & Password auto-fill or do you have to manually type in each as I must do every time. I use 6 browsers with my MacBook Pro. Perhaps auto-fill is not compatible on this forum using the Camino browser?


2. Within a post I made in another thread here, the words I used, which were for a specific type of cable connection, turned into a link that went to Amazon where you could buy it. Is that intentional? Does this forum have some type of advertising partnership with Amazon.com?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## nycdigital09

yes,and yes


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19154804
> 
> 
> Only History? Geez, I could list about 35 networks but I don't want this to turn into an advertisement for Cable & Satellite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> questions for you guys who have been here much longer than me ...
> 
> 
> 1. When you Login to this forum, does your User Name & Password auto-fill or do you have to manually type in each as I must do every time. I use 6 browsers with my MacBook Pro. Perhaps auto-fill is not compatible on this forum using the Camino browser?
> 
> 
> 2. Within a post I made in another thread here, the words I used, which were for a specific type of cable connection, turned into a link that went to Amazon where you could buy it. Is that intentional? Does this forum have some type of advertising partnership with Amazon.com?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



yes, and yes lol it automatically logs in for you unless you clear your memory cache, advertisement is posted by moderator/ webmaster.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19153986
> 
> 
> I was once told any RG6 longer then 25 feet. Should have a pre-amp



Probably excessive...


You first have to know how strong the original signals off the antenna are. Then, if there is insufficient signal power to overcome distribution losses, an amplifier is recommended.


Too many people reach for an amp first because it's the only tool they know of. If they're lucky, it, at least, does n harm. But, often the signals are strong enough that the amplifier overloads and they end up with poorer reception with the amp than without.


If you're in fringe territory, an amp will usually be beneficial or, at least, not detrimental.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19153986
> 
> 
> I was once told any RG6 longer then 25 feet. Should have a pre-amp



Not totally true. As long as you get a strong signal at the antenna, you can have a long run of RG6 even with splitters involved.

I have a 50 ft length of RG6 from my rooftop antenna to a 2 way splitter in the attic. Then I have about 100 feet off of each port of the splitter going to 2 tv's. I am 25 miles awy from ESB and pick up everything fine including the 2 NJN channels 50.1 and 58.1, which are my weakest on the strength meter, but I still get them.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19154718
> 
> 
> thats one of the worst tv fool reports i seen how do you even get a tv signal. every channel is close to minus on noise margin db wise.



I've seen worse.


For me it's a combination of height, high gain antennas, a low noise amp, low loss combiner and razor thin alignment of the antennas.


The VHF isn't so bad though. I can receive that from my front yard with an antenna 10ft over the ground. The UHF is a different story entirely.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19155562
> 
> 
> Not totally true. As long as you get a strong signal at the antenna, you can have a long run of RG6 even with splitters involved.
> 
> I have a 50 ft length of RG6 from my rooftop antenna to a 2 way splitter in the attic. Then I have about 100 feet off of each port of the splitter going to 2 tv's. I am 25 miles awy from ESB and pick up everything fine including the 2 NJN channels 50.1 and 58.1, which are my weakest on the strength meter, but I still get them.



I had a 200ft run of RG6 to my house and it worked mostly fine. However I had a preamp at the top. I replaced the run with RG11 because of my weakest desired station (WNYW) and noticed a significant but not very big difference.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19155611
> 
> 
> I had a 200ft run of RG6 to my house and it worked mostly fine. However I had a preamp at the top. I replaced the run with RG11 because of my weakest desired station (WNYW) and noticed a significant but not very big difference.



Ironic that you have problems with WNYW. That is my strongest station on my meter. It is literally pegged at 100%.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19155274
> 
> 
> yes, and yes lol it automatically logs in for you unless you clear your memory cache, advertisement is posted by moderator/ webmaster.



Thanks and thanks. I cleared my cache. Hopefully it will auto-fill the next time I login even though all other websites I use Camino for have always auto-filled. Off to the beach, my summer ain't over!!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19155786
> 
> 
> Ironic that you have problems with WNYW. That is my strongest station on my meter. It is literally pegged at 100%.



I don't have any problems anymore.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19155601
> 
> 
> I've seen worse.
> 
> 
> For me it's a combination of height, high gain antennas, a low noise amp, low loss combiner and razor thin alignment of the antennas.
> 
> 
> The VHF isn't so bad though. I can receive that from my front yard with an antenna 10ft over the ground. The UHF is a different story entirely.



raj are you using the cm 4228 an 8 bay screen type of antenna? i recently saw a listing at ebay someone was selling a cm 4228 it was in used condition, with a preamp he was asking for $120. i was tempted to get it. i heard good things about that setup. but i allready have the 91xg. if it was parabolic dish at that price i would definitely jumped at it. i would turn around sold it for alot more dough. say a grand.










you mention your using a low loss combiner? is it Pico Macom UVSJ


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19159188
> 
> 
> i recently saw a listing at ebay someone was selling a cm 4228 it was in used condition, with a preamp he was asking for $120. i was tempted to get it. i heard good things about that setup. but i allready have the 91xg. if it was parabolic dish at that price i would definitely jumped at it. i would turn around sold it for alot more dough. say a grand.



I remember seeing this parabolic dish in the Channel Master catalog years ago.

http://www.rocketroberts.com/cm4251/cm4251.htm


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/19161108
> 
> 
> I remember seeing this parabolic dish in the Channel Master catalog years ago.
> 
> http://www.rocketroberts.com/cm4251/cm4251.htm



wish you had bought one back then huh. they sell for $350 and up highly sought antenna by dtv dxers. a neighbor of mine has one on his roof, finco 7 foot dish its supply and demand. someone will start mass producing the parabolic dish in near future.







ps canandian dtv should be on its way in august 2011, that should really get antenna manufactuers going


----------



## NervousCat

Restored 4251s pop up for sale now and again, and I've heard sellers ask for, and apparently get, $1,000 for a refurb!


This 16 bay hovermen looks like a good antenna ... don't know if you can still get one of these?

http://www.rocketroberts.com/cm4251/superg1483.htm


----------



## nycdigital09

 http://www.summitsource.com/antennac...le-p-7648.html


----------



## DeadFormatLover

RTV is now on WKOB 42-3. The video is in B&W only, with glitches and freezes every few moments and the audio is very low.


----------



## Keith




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19169091
> 
> 
> RTV is now on WKOB 42-3. The video is in B&W only, with glitches and freezes every few moments and the audio is very low.



How far EAST does this signal reach ?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/19169113
> 
> 
> How far EAST does this signal reach ?



I can't tell you because I don't know anyone further east that has OTA, but right now it isn't enjoyable to watch like this.


----------



## nycdigital09

here is wkob contour http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1357397 


it looks like your outside of their erp. but you may still get their signal if you have the right antenna.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/19161108
> 
> 
> I remember seeing this parabolic dish in the Channel Master catalog years ago.
> 
> http://www.rocketroberts.com/cm4251/cm4251.htm



let me ask you, do you receive the nyc digital signals stronger than albany's. can you reach hartford ct or springfield, ma. it would seem to me that if you setup a deep fringe array, you would receive most of these dma's.


----------



## AloEuro

Some gents have mentioned that 10/55 on ch. 45-1or3 is only Audio, Well, yes and no

Some conv.boxes/Digital TV pick up only Audio signal and other conv.boxes get whole package both the Video/Audio. So do not blame the TV station, blame the box or DTV.

Conv.box like Coship giving 36ch. except 39 give only Audio of 10/55 on 45-1, other box like iNet Access SSR 1921-Tivax type while officially listing only24 ch. counts strong subs but weak only primary -1, it gives 10/55 on 45-1or3 both Video-Audio.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19169091
> 
> 
> RTV is now on WKOB 42-3. The video is in B&W only, with glitches and freezes every few moments and the audio is very low.



This was a real STUPID move by RTV. imo


Not many can see this station and when they do it is jumpy.


The reason why this is a stupid move, besides the obvious. Is that RTV will not be unable to get a watcher base by Jan 3rd. This date is when WPIX should include Tribune's new station ANTENNA TV. Which is a direct copy of RTV and TVland. imo


So even if I got both RTV and Antenna TV. I would think a major network will have better programing and much better coverage.


Nice job RTV NOT!


----------



## nycdigital09

Originally Posted by keyboard21


Nice job RTV NOT! I think wkob owner daystar have something up their sleeve, imo rtv will be sub of myfox5 or ch 9 in the near future.


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21, are you getting wkob signal? do you get a blip on stb when you tune in 51.1 wnjn or 18.1 i can't get their signal, just a blip, i have serious multipath i dont have los to esb or anywhere really. my antennas are pointed towards the co-ops i get signal bounce for reception, 2 edge more or less.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19172542
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by keyboard21
> 
> 
> Nice job RTV NOT! I think wkob owner daystar have something up their sleeve, imo rtv will be sub of myfox5 or ch 9 in the near future.



rtv will absolutely not be on 5 or 9


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19172573
> 
> 
> kb21, are you getting wkob signal? do you get a blip on stb when you tune in 51.1 wnjn or 18.1 i can't get their signal, just a blip, i have serious multipath i dont have los to esb or anywhere really. my antennas are pointed towards the co-ops i get signal bounce for reception, 2 edge more or less.



No sir no WKOB at all


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19172596
> 
> 
> rtv will absolutely not be on 5 or 9



I was told by RTV people that they are working on improvements with WKOB. I guess signal improvements.


As I said they won't be able to complete with Antenna TV by Tribune. imo


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19172681
> 
> 
> I was told by RTV people that they are working on improvements with WKOB. I guess signal improvements.
> 
> 
> As I said they won't be able to complete with Antenna TV by Tribune. imo



who was the person you spoke to, i spoke to someone named richard allen, as that who told you that ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19173491
> 
> 
> who was the person you spoke to, i spoke to someone named richard allen, as that who told you that ?



It was an em-mail I received weeks ago. I wrote them. I posted it a few pages back. Not one person thanked me for posting the reply. Strange. Like no one saw it.


----------



## jmsnyc

I am getting RTV on 42-3 but extremely poor quality - jittery.


Say I want to manually add this in WMC - it asks for both channel and assigned frequency - 42-3 goes in the channel but what goes in the assigned frequency?


----------



## keyboard21

Antenna TV has a new website. As cheap looking as it is. I guess tribune wanted to just put up something fast. Then they will get a better website

http://antennatv.tv/shows/antenna/ 
_
*The programming plans for "Antenna TV" includes showing classic movies during the morning and afternoon -- primarily movies coming from Columbia & Sony.* The evenings & overnights will be filled with classic sitcoms, with newer sitcoms (late 70's, 80's, 90's) at night beginning at 5:00pm and older sitcoms (50's, 60's, early 70's) airing overnight. Sitcoms already scheduled to appear include: Good Times, NewsRadio, The Monkees, The Partridge Family, All in the Family, Maude, Sanford and Son, Three's Company, Too Close For Comfort, The Nanny, Married with Children, Dennis the Menace, The Donna Reed Show, and the British sketch comedy show, Benny Hill. Although not a true sitcom, blocks of The Three Stooges' short movies will also be on the schedule for overnights._

http://chicagoradioandmedia.com/news...sic-antenna-tv 


So it looks like Movies also. Can not wait to see what movies they will offer. I hope WPIX has plans to carry this sub


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19177494
> 
> 
> Antenna TV has a new website. As cheap looking as it is. I guess tribune wanted to just put up something fast. Then they will get a better website
> 
> http://antennatv.tv/shows/antenna/
> _
> *The programming plans for "Antenna TV" includes showing classic movies during the morning and afternoon -- primarily movies coming from Columbia & Sony.* The evenings & overnights will be filled with classic sitcoms, with newer sitcoms (late 70's, 80's, 90's) at night beginning at 5:00pm and older sitcoms (50's, 60's, early 70's) airing overnight. Sitcoms already scheduled to appear include: Good Times, NewsRadio, The Monkees, The Partridge Family, All in the Family, Maude, Sanford and Son, Three's Company, Too Close For Comfort, The Nanny, Married with Children, Dennis the Menace, The Donna Reed Show, and the British sketch comedy show, Benny Hill. Although not a true sitcom, blocks of The Three Stooges' short movies will also be on the schedule for overnights._
> 
> http://chicagoradioandmedia.com/news...sic-antenna-tv
> 
> 
> So it looks like Movies also. Can not wait to see what movies they will offer. I hope WPIX has plans to carry this sub




you're wating with anticipation. you think pix will carry this on their subs the need to drop one first, i think estrella is out ummphh


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19177619
> 
> 
> you're wating with anticipation. you think pix will carry this on their subs the need to drop one first, i think estrella is out ummphh



Didn't WPIX once have 3 subs? 11.1 .2 .3 .4?


It is possible the reason 11.3 has such low bandwidth is to save room for Antenna TV? just a thought


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 look at this link that will explain why pix sucks








http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php pix allocates most of their bandwith to their main channel. the subs get the crums !!


----------



## nycdigital09

kb 21 i see ya going to watch the ladies finals of us open manana


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/19177293
> 
> 
> I am getting RTV on 42-3 but extremely poor quality - jittery.
> 
> 
> Say I want to manually add this in WMC - it asks for both channel and assigned frequency - 42-3 goes in the channel but what goes in the assigned frequency?



WKOB is on channel 2. If it wants frequency in MHz, 57 is probably the right value.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19177846
> 
> 
> WKOB is on channel 2. If it wants frequency in MHz, 57 is probably the right value.
> 
> 
> - Trip



What is your take on WPIX and Antenna tv? Will they take it on from Tribune? Will they get rid of 11.2? What do you think?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19177667
> 
> 
> Didn't WPIX once have 3 subs? 11.1 .2 .3 .4?



Nope. Two has been the max.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19178023
> 
> 
> What is your take on WPIX and Antenna tv? Will they take it on from Tribune? Will they get rid of 11.2? What do you think?



I think Antenna TV will be on WPIX 11-4.


- Trip


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19177846
> 
> 
> WKOB is on channel 2. If it wants frequency in MHz, 57 is probably the right value.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks. 2 is what WMC was looking for in the "Assigned Frequency" box.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19178760
> 
> 
> I think Antenna TV will be on WPIX 11-4.
> 
> 
> - Trip



This is what I was thinking the reason for 11.3 being such short of bandwidth


Trip, What is the lowest amount of bandwidth that 11.1 (main) can have before 1080i starts to suffer in quality? They are using 14 megs now. Correct? Someone posted that. Just wondering if they have the room for a 11.4


did Wpix ever have 3 subs?


----------



## jmsnyc

Other than THIS and RTV, are there any other new OTA stations that are currently out?


Other than AntennaTV which is not out yet.


Sorry if already answered in thread, lots and lots of pages....


----------



## raj2001

With WMC you can just scan for additional channels and it will discover automatically.


When it's done, uncheck what you don't want.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/19181276
> 
> 
> Other than THIS and RTV, are there any other new OTA stations that are currently out?
> 
> 
> Other than AntennaTV which is not out yet.
> 
> 
> Sorry if already answered in thread, lots and lots of pages....



Last station was 45.1 Channel 10/55



As far as I know


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19181413
> 
> 
> With WMC you can just scan for additional channels and it will discover automatically.
> 
> 
> When it's done, uncheck what you don't want.



What is WMC?


----------



## jmsnyc

WMC - Windows Media Center - for those with a home theater setup


I was geting 10/55 via QAM on 125.5 but a 2nd source is always nice.


Ch21 I get via QAM too but I can't get it OTA.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19181053
> 
> 
> 
> did Wpix ever have 3 subs?



I already told you before Trip responded that they've never run 3 subs before. They're unlikely to do it now. I believe the 1st sub PIX ever added was _The Tube_. When they were running _The Tube_, they didn't run any other subs. When The Tube ceased broadcasting, they ran the SD simulcast of the main channel for awhile. Then came LATV, which replaced the SD simulcast. Sometime later, Estrella was added. Then LATV was dropped, and recently ThisTV was added. They'll likely replace Estrella with Antenna.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/19181808
> 
> 
> WMC - Windows Media Center - for those with a home theater setup
> 
> 
> I was geting 10/55 via QAM on 125.5 but a 2nd source is always nice.
> 
> 
> Ch21 I get via QAM too but I can't get it OTA.



Does this mean you use your a computer for a TV?


What do you use for a monitor? Large LCD TV?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19178760
> 
> 
> I think Antenna TV will be on WPIX 11-4.
> 
> 
> - Trip



trip, are you going out on a limb on this call, or do you know something we don't know


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19181053
> 
> 
> Trip, What is the lowest amount of bandwidth that 11.1 (main) can have before 1080i starts to suffer in quality?



There's no fixed amount. The quality of the encoder is the difference between 14 Mbps looking good or 14 Mbps looking bad.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19182511
> 
> 
> trip, are you going out on a limb on this call, or do you know something we don't know



I have no inside info, I just don't think they'll be dropping Estrella. Tribune just added NTDTV (seen in New York on 63-5) on WDCW 50-3 in Washington DC. I can't imagine they added it like six weeks ago just to drop it again come January; I suspect they'll have Antenna TV on 50-4. Why wouldn't they do the same in New York?


I suspect, in both cases (and in Miami, where WSFL has Azteca America on 39-2), Tribune will be investing in new encoders for which they are likely long overdue, if the complaints I've heard about WGN's OTA PQ are correct. I suspect new encoders would be in store for Tribune's Universal Sports markets as well, just due to the high motion on that subchannel.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19139126
> 
> 
> Im picking up ch 28 wlwc is anyone else getting this??
> 
> 
> THIS HAS LATV BUT IT KEEPS BREAKING UP



ch.28 maps out to ch.4wNBC, maybe it shows 4-4 , Russian 1hr or Universal Sport all over world, lacrose, ping-pong, beach 'ball etc.


----------



## SnellKrell

You're picking up WLWC out of Providence, RI!


----------



## AloEuro

' They'll likely replace Estrella with Antenna.' I doubt that, Estrella has following, maybe they will add ECC3 some new programs on Univision41-1 like MQB (dance competition)have English on CC3,


----------



## AloEuro

In order to get 42Daystar on my current box, I have added Loop/bow Ant. on 4-1 splitter and it gives solid signal, Added on Scan gave 41-1.2 signal at 40locked.

Loop-Bow tie type Ant. are back, in addition to Rabbit ears vertical Ant. in certain angle as -nycdigital09- suggested elsewhere.

RTV - Return To Vendor, Retrospective TV going back to b/w, currently still pictures like 64-2 not much to see should go to vendor


----------



## dvdchance

I tried watching Retro Tv a bit this morning, since weather conditions were giving me a good steady signal today.


Whats the deal with the audio processing? I was only getting sound out of my surround speakers. And no colour? Even the station ID and ads are in B&W. Very low rent.


----------



## yobiworld

WHY THE HELL DOES PIX KEEP ADDING AND REMOVING CHANNELS? I loved LATV They had music videos English and Spanish why no one liked that channel is beyond me.


Every time we get a GREAT CHANNEL they remove it within a year. We could have had music videos and a damn movie channel. Cable seems to be able to keep all there channel except for us absolutely ridicules.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

* RTV WKOB DAYSTAR 42-3 New York Schedule*










*Sunday*

12:00 AM Suspense Theatre

1:00-9:30 AM Paid Programming

10:00 AM Black Beauty

10:30 AM Leave It To Beaver

11:00 AM Daniel Boone

12:00 PM Wagon Train

1:00 PM Alias Smith & Jones

2:00 PM The Rifleman

2:30 PM The Rifleman

3:00 PM Run For Your Life

4:00 PM Baa Baa Black Sheep

5:00 PM McHale's Navy

5:30 PM The Jack Benny Program

6:00 PM Amen

6:30 PM Amen

7:00 PM Voyagers

8:00 PM Delvecchio

9:00 PM Hardy Boys

10:00 PM Off Beat Cinema

*Monday Thru Friday*

12:00 AM Hitchcock Presents * (Tues-Sat)

12:30 AM Night Gallery * (Tues-Sat)

1:00-8:30 AM Paid Programming

9:00 AM Daytime

10:00 AM Adventures Of Robin Hood

10:30 AM Peter Gunn

11:00 AM Daniel Boone

12:00 PM Leave It To Beaver

12:30 PM Kate & Allie

1:00 PM Marcus Welby, M.D.

2:00 PM I Spy

3:00 PM The Bold Ones

4:00 PM Emergency

5:00 PM Adam-12

5:30 PM Dragnet

6:00 PM Incredible Hulk

7:00 PM Knight Rider

8:00 PM The A-Team

9:00 PM Magnum, P.I.

10:00 PM Simon & Simon

11:00 PM Rockford Files

*Saturday*

12:00 AM Hitchcock Presents

12:30 AM Night Gallery

1:00-6:30 AM Paid Programming

7:00 AM Outdoorsman

7:30 AM Angel's Friends

8:00 AM Kids Cooking For Kids

8:30 AM Aqua Kids

9:00 AM In the Zone

9:30 AM BRTV

10:00 AM Mustard Pancakes

10:30 AM The Real Winning Edge

11:00 AM Daniel Boone

12:00 PM Wagon Train

1:00 PM Alias Smith & Jones

2:00 PM The Rifleman

2:30 PM The Rifleman

3:00 PM Run For Your Life

4:00 PM Baa Baa Black Sheep

5:00 PM Peter Gunn

5:30 PM Peter Gunn

6:00 PM The Bill Cosby Show

6:30 PM The Bill Cosby Show

7:00 PM Airwolf

8:00 PM Buck Rogers

9:00 PM Battlestar Galactica

10:00 PM Chiller Drive-In

*RTV Affiliates:* Neil Ardman (423) 468-5100


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19184050
> 
> 
> I doubt that, Estrella has following,



Based on what? You have the ratings?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19184934
> 
> 
> WHY THE HELL DOES PIX KEEP ADDING AND REMOVING CHANNELS? I loved LATV They had music videos English and Spanish why no one liked that channel is beyond me.
> 
> 
> Every time we get a GREAT CHANNEL they remove it within a year. We could have had music videos and a damn movie channel. Cable seems to be able to keep all there channel except for us absolutely ridicules.



tube tv went out of business. latv didnt reach an agreement with tribune to renew. did it occur to u that carriage agreements are 1 year. wpix is leasing these channels. there hasn't been any real successful networks that have launched on DT subchannels.


latv leases a channel on time warner which is the only place its available in nyc area.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19186253
> 
> 
> Based on what? You have the ratings?



There aren't any ratings for sub-channels, the viewership is way too low!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19186253
> 
> 
> Based on what? You have the ratings?



I wonder if we can e-mail Estrella and ask them directly if they will continue next year with WPIX. Then we would have an answer of sorts.


*Does anyone have the Estrella network website link? Can not seem to find a direct link. Is it the Liberman website?*


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if we can e-mail Estrella and ask them directly if they will continue next year with WPIX. Then we would have an answer of sorts.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have the Estrella network website link? Can not seem to find a direct link. Is it the Liberman website?



unlikely they will give u a straight answer. if they get dropped, wpix needs to give 30 day notice to cable companies that carry Estrella.


----------



## mikepier

Is RTV up and running? I tried getting RTV here at work, but only get 42.1. Did a re-scan, same thing. Signal comes in good on 42.1, so I don't know whats up.

This is on my Hauppauge 850 tuner.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19188804
> 
> 
> Is RTV up and running? I tried getting RTV here at work, but only get 42.1. Did a re-scan, same thing. Signal comes in good on 42.1, so I don't know whats up.
> 
> This is on my Hauppauge 850 tuner.



I did a re-scan last night and couldn't even get a hint of RTV.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19189466
> 
> 
> I did a re-scan last night and couldn't even get a hint of RTV.



Things don't seem to be going smooth for RTV on 42.3. On both the tuners of my Vizio TV and my DTVPal DVR it sometimes looses picture and goes into audio-only. This seems to be a new problem in addition to all picture being B&W only, and sound only coming from my surround speakers with their audio Dolby PLIIx mix.


It's a shame cause my girlfriend was / is looking forward to a few of their programs too, like Hitchcock Presents, Night Gallery and Chiller Theatre.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19189466
> 
> 
> I did a re-scan last night and couldn't even get a hint of RTV.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19189569
> 
> 
> Things don't seem to be going smooth for RTV on 42.3. On both the tuners of my Vizio TV and my DTVPal DVR it sometimes looses picture and goes into audio-only. This seems to be a new problem in addition to all picture being B&W only, and sound only coming from my surround speakers with their audio Dolby PLIIx mix.
> 
> 
> It's a shame cause my girlfriend was / is looking forward to a few of their programs too, like Hitchcock Presents, Night Gallery and Chiller Theatre.



But do both of you get 42.1 fine?


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19189771
> 
> 
> But do both of you get 42.1 fine?



It varies day to day. If I get one of the 42.1 fine they are all fine.


Yesterday they all came in fine, signal strength wise. Today is a different story, break-up city for me.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19184103
> 
> 
> In order to get 42Daystar on my current box, I have added Loop/bow Ant. on 4-1 splitter and it gives solid signal, Added on Scan gave 41-1.2 signal at 40locked.
> 
> Loop-Bow tie type Ant. are back, in addition to Rabbit ears vertical Ant. in certain angle as -nycdigital09- suggested elsewhere.
> 
> RTV - Return To Vendor, Retrospective TV going back to b/w, currently still pictures like 64-2 not much to see should go to vendor



im trying to get wkob signal care to explain what antenna did you use? did you buy it or diy? how good is reception wise? txs


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19186315
> 
> 
> tube tv went out of business. latv didnt reach an agreement with tribune to renew. did it occur to u that carriage agreements are 1 year. wpix is leasing these channels. there hasn't been any real successful networks that have launched on DT subchannels.
> 
> 
> latv leases a channel on time warner which is the only place its available in nyc area.



Tired of finding something i like only to have it removed the next year. Oh well



DID RTV MAKE IT TO THE NEW YORK CITY AREA BECAUSE IM NOT GETTING IT???


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19189835
> 
> 
> It varies day to day. If I get one of the 42.1 fine they are all fine.



For me, I get 42.1 fine, but for some reason my tuner can't find 42.2, 42.3


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19190568
> 
> 
> For me, I get 42.1 fine, but for some reason my tuner can't find 42.2, 42.3





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19189771
> 
> 
> But do both of you get 42.1 fine?



None of my tuners can pick up a hint of 42.1 either. Where do they broadcast from? The ESB?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19190815
> 
> 
> None of my tuners can pick up a hint of 42.1 either. Where do they broadcast from? The ESB?



I believe Trump tower


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19191384
> 
> 
> I believe Trump tower



kb21 the building is actually called trump world tower is on 48 st & 1st ave. dekek jeter's condo is there









http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...n_market_.html


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19190504
> 
> 
> Tired of finding something i like only to have it removed the next year. Oh well
> 
> 
> 
> DID RTV MAKE IT TO THE NEW YORK CITY AREA BECAUSE IM NOT GETTING IT???




lol wait unitl antennatv is here. just when youre getting to like their shows, they will dump the sub channel.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19185361
> 
> * RTV WKOB DAYSTAR 42-3 New York Schedule*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Sunday*
> 
> 12:00 AM Suspense Theatre
> 
> 1:00-9:30 AM Paid Programming
> 
> 10:00 AM Black Beauty
> 
> 10:30 AM Leave It To Beaver
> 
> 11:00 AM Daniel Boone
> 
> 12:00 PM Wagon Train
> 
> 1:00 PM Alias Smith & Jones
> 
> 2:00 PM The Rifleman
> 
> 2:30 PM The Rifleman
> 
> 3:00 PM Run For Your Life
> 
> 4:00 PM Baa Baa Black Sheep
> 
> 5:00 PM Peter Gunn
> 
> 5:30 PM The Jack Benny Program
> 
> 6:00 PM Amen
> 
> 6:30 PM Amen
> 
> 7:00 PM Voyagers
> 
> 8:00 PM Delvecchio
> 
> 9:00 PM Hardy Boys
> 
> 10:00 PM Off Beat Cinema
> 
> *Monday Thru Friday*
> 
> 12:00 AM Suspense Theatre
> 
> 1:00-8:30 AM Paid Programming
> 
> 9:00 AM Daytime
> 
> 10:00 AM Adventures Of Robin Hood
> 
> 10:30 AM Peter Gunn
> 
> 11:00 AM Daniel Boone
> 
> 12:00 PM Leave It To Beaver
> 
> 12:30 PM Kate & Allie
> 
> 1:00 PM Marcus Welby, M.D.
> 
> 2:00 PM I Spy
> 
> 3:00 PM The Bold Ones
> 
> 4:00 PM Emergency
> 
> 5:00 PM Adam-12
> 
> 5:30 PM Dragnet
> 
> 6:00 PM Incredible Hulk
> 
> 7:00 PM Knight Rider
> 
> 8:00 PM The A-Team
> 
> 9:00 PM Magnum, P.I.
> 
> 10:00 PM Simon & Simon
> 
> 11:00 PM Rockford Files
> 
> *Saturday*
> 
> 12:00 AM Hitchcock Presents
> 
> 12:30 AM Night Gallery
> 
> 1:00-6:30 AM Paid Programming
> 
> 7:00 AM Outdoorsman
> 
> 7:30 AM Angel's Friends
> 
> 8:00 AM Kids Cooking For Kids
> 
> 8:30 AM Aqua Kids
> 
> 9:00 AM In the Zone
> 
> 9:30 AM BRTV
> 
> 10:00 AM Mustard Pancakes
> 
> 10:30 AM The Real Winning Edge
> 
> 11:00 AM Daniel Boone
> 
> 12:00 PM Wagon Train
> 
> 1:00 PM Alias Smith & Jones
> 
> 2:00 PM The Rifleman
> 
> 2:30 PM The Rifleman
> 
> 3:00 PM Run For Your Life
> 
> 4:00 PM Baa Baa Black Sheep
> 
> 5:00 PM Peter Gunn
> 
> 5:30 PM Peter Gunn
> 
> 6:00 PM The Bill Cosby Show
> 
> 6:30 PM The Bill Cosby Show
> 
> 7:00 PM Airwolf
> 
> 8:00 PM Buck Rogers
> 
> 9:00 PM Battlestar Galactica
> 
> 10:00 PM Chiller Drive-In
> 
> *RTV Affiliates:* Neil Ardman (423) 468-5100



hey there big guy are you enjoying retro tv. lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19191468
> 
> 
> kb21 the building is actually called trump world tower is on 48 st & 1st ave. dekek jeter's condo is there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...n_market_.html



Yes I know. Trump has too many dam buildings named TRUMP!


----------



## mikepier

Don't know if anyone else noticed, but last night I was watching the Jet game on WWOR-DT 9.1. ESPN is doing 5.1 surround for the first time ths year as was noted in another forum, and for some reason on My9 it was not passing through 5.1 surround. I was hearing the announcers in the front surrounds, even though my receiver said 5.1. However when I watched it on ESPN via Cablevision, it was true 5.1 .

Meanwhile I'm watching the Yankee game right now on My9, and they are doing true 5.1, I only hear the announcers in the center speaker. Go figure.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19191673
> 
> 
> hey there big guy are you enjoying retro tv. lol



Yeah, it's great watching a black picture and hearing glitching audio going on 4 days now. Just another example of NY OTA at it's finest. Why doesn't the FCC have a quality control requirement that stations must correct problems within a specified period of time or get the heck off the air??


BTW, NJN 50-1 slashed their signal strength by about 20% as of this past Monday. Those NJ budget cuts are hitting them hard.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19196657
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's great watching a black picture and hearing glitching audio going on 4 days now. Just another example of NY OTA at it's finest. Why doesn't the FCC have a quality control requirement that stations must correct problems within a specified period of time or get the heck off the air??
> 
> 
> BTW, NJN 50-1 slashed their signal strength by about 20% as of this past Monday. Those NJ budget cuts are hitting them hard.




why doesn't njn sub retrotv, then everyone wins!!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19196657
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's great watching a black picture and hearing glitching audio going on 4 days now. Just another example of NY OTA at it's finest. Why doesn't the FCC have a quality control requirement that stations must correct problems within a specified period of time or get the heck off the air??
> 
> 
> BTW, NJN 50-1 slashed their signal strength by about 20% as of this past Monday. Those NJ budget cuts are hitting them hard.



Are you serious? NJN cut back power to save money?


----------



## SnellKrell

I, too, hadn't heard about it.


Not surprised, a few years ago, Channel 50 cut its power by 50% to save money!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19197158
> 
> 
> I, too, hadn't heard about it.
> 
> 
> Not surprised, a few years ago, Channel 50 cut its power by 50% to save money!



How does cutting signal by 50% save any money?


----------



## SnellKrell

Electricity costs money and a lot of it!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19197215
> 
> 
> Electricity costs money and a lot of it!



Are you kidding me? I thought they got that monkey hooked up to a treadmill?










LOL



Thanks for reply


Of course this could be the reason for receptions problems


----------



## SnellKrell

One of the network owned stations at the ESB has been known to use hamsters!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19197139
> 
> 
> Are you serious? NJN cut back power to save money?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19197158
> 
> 
> I, too, hadn't heard about it.
> 
> 
> Not surprised, a few years ago, Channel 50 cut its power by 50% to save money!



This is just an assumption on my part for 2 reasons.

1. I waited 3 days before making my post in case it was atmospheric conditions which I doubted in the first place because I have received NJN with a 100 signal strength for years, and it is now 78-80.

2. After reading this... * NJ Network seeks funding after state subsidy expires *


I have spoken with the chief engineer at NJN many times though not for a few years and I can always verify this.


----------



## nycdigital09

i thought we were the guinea pigs? i noticed lots of breakup on all channels the past few days maybe it was strong winds, usualy my signal is rock solid !! any one else notice this


----------



## LenL

Yes I have noticed during the very windy days that the max signal strength was pretty much great on all my channels but there were wild swings that caused some signal breakup. For example my 2.1 would max out at the mid to low 90s but when watching the signal strength it would sometimes swing wildly to the low to mid 70's then stay rock soild 88-94%.


Other channels were not quite as bad with the wild swings but I did get the occaisional blip in picture and or sound.


Only seemed to happen with the windy days/hours.


Been having some issues with overall signal strength for 50.1 too.


I do have lots of trees between me and my LOS to the ESB. Trees are about 100-150 feet from the front of my antennas. So if the wind is blowing them and their leaves around it could be my issue.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19198835
> 
> 
> Yes I have noticed during the very windy days that the max signal strength was pretty much great on all my channels but there were wild swings that caused some signal breakup. For example my 2.1 would max out at the mid to low 90s but when watching the signal strength it would sometimes swing wildly to the low to mid 70's then stay rock soild 88-94%.



Well, I'm back to having trouble picking up NBC and WWOR. Not sure if due to the weather or if NBC is back operating at 50% power. NBC indicated on Aug 26 that they may be operating at 50% power during the following 30-60 days.


----------



## AloEuro

Connecting you to Amazon or anywhere, consider it service to you as - nycdigital09 -

eloquently has said, by the moderators


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19190008
> 
> 
> im trying to get wkob signal care to explain what antenna did you use? did you buy it or diy? how good is reception wise? txs



Using 4-1 splitter gives loss of signal to certain extent, therefore I have 3 rabbit ears indoor, 1loop, 1 rooftop Ant.connected to splitter, and rabbit ears coaxial to conv. box passing through VCR to DVD to 14 years old SonyTV.

The delivery system for Analog and Digital signal is the same God created air waves, therefore the Digital Ant. ads are money making hogwash, however

The best HD Digital Ant. - rooftop- was posted by George Molnar, see his Attachment, it is Vertical Ant. as it should be, (rabbit ears are verticals-Analog rooftop is horizontal-flat-no good)


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19203832
> 
> 
> Well, I'm back to having trouble picking up NBC and WWOR. Not sure if due to the weather or if NBC is back operating at 50% power. NBC indicated on Aug 26 that they may be operating at 50% power during the following 30-60 days.



WNBC is still operating at reduced power. The atmospheric conditions were kind of rough yesterday, to say the least.


I find it odd that WNBC operating at 50% power is still far stronger than WWOR currently is, yet WWOR has never reported operating at less than full capacity and they used to have a reasonably reliable signal for the past few years. It seems the FCC rules are treated differently by GE and News Corp.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/19205032
> 
> 
> WNBC is still operating at reduced power. The atmospheric conditions were kind of rough yesterday, to say the least.
> 
> 
> I find it odd that WNBC operating at 50% power is still far stronger than WWOR currently is, yet WWOR has never reported operating at less than full capacity and they used to have a reasonably reliable signal for the past few years. It seems the FCC rules are treated differently by GE and News Corp.



nbc signal is here lot less than abc or pix for that matter,

im only 4.8 miles from esb. i have noticed erp levels down for a lot of channels, like you mentioned there a cutbacks being made, no doubt.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

After watching this, I believe I'll try to keep my complaints to a minimum, lol.

* A Climb Up The Tallest Tower *


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19196657
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's great watching a black picture and hearing glitching audio going on 4 days now. Just another example of NY OTA at it's finest. Why doesn't the FCC have a quality control requirement that stations must correct problems within a specified period of time or get the heck off the air??
> 
> 
> BTW, NJN 50-1 slashed their signal strength by about 20% as of this past Monday. Those NJ budget cuts are hitting them hard.



Hmmm no difference here at all.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19206176
> 
> 
> Hmmm no difference here at all.



Really?? What is your normal signal strength for NJN? Do you think the reduction might be directional?


I haven't noticed any difference at all with NBC here, and in fact for the past few weeks I've been receiving CBS consistently but on my UHF only antenna, not on my combo. Go figure.


Re: RTV on WKOB, while the video remains dark since Monday morning Sept. 13, I noticed the locally inserted commercials can be seen and in color.


----------



## SnellKrell

"It seems the FCC rules are treated differently by GE and News Corp."


That's quite a statement to make without substantiation!


It's good that you qualified the statement with "seems."


There have been so many wild statements and conjectures lately that it's getting to sound like a dime store novel!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19206486
> 
> 
> There have been so many wild statements and conjectures lately that it's getting to sound like a dime store novel!



Never let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19206486
> 
> 
> "It seems the FCC rules are treated differently by GE and News Corp."
> 
> 
> That's quite a statement to make without substantiation!
> 
> 
> It's good that you qualified the statement with "seems."
> 
> 
> There have been so many wild statements and conjectures lately that it's getting to sound like a dime store novel!



Those indignant complaints about intentional power reductions by TV stations based upon received signal strength are usually incorrect (besides amusing). Without a good reason and FCC permission, TV stations are obliged to maintain their power between 95 and 105%. Atmospheric conditions affecting television reception are much more noticeable with digital, because receiver decoders get confused by reflections (or long distance interference from co-channel stations) which cause blackouts and "weak signal" messages. Similar complaints are also predictable when the leaves annually drop off the trees in the Fall, or grow back in the Spring.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19206418
> 
> 
> Really?? What is your normal signal strength for NJN? Do you think the reduction might be directional?



I take that back. It is down here slightly. Still rock solid though. But I don't know if that is due to power cutback or something else. I will hook up the signal analyzer later and take a reading to compare to what it was a few months ago.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19207241
> 
> 
> I take that back. It is down here slightly. Still rock solid though. But I don't know if that is due to power cutback or something else. I will hook up the signal analyzer later and take a reading to compare to what it was a few months ago.



Thanks Ryan, and to George from Indiana for a constructive and educational post. However, I would be greatly surprised if such a large drop in NJN's signal from 100, (the past 2 1/2 years), to 78-80 is due to atmospheric conditions, but hey, you learn something new every day. That's why I'm here.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19207382
> 
> 
> Thanks Ryan, and to George from Indiana for a constructive and educational post. However, I would be greatly surprised if such a large drop in NJN's signal from 100, (the past 2 1/2 years), to 78-80 is due to atmospheric conditions, but hey, you learn something new every day. That's why I'm here.



it can be your antenna is getting depleted by weather, i use to get wedw from ct at 90+ on my tv signal meter, all thru summer months. now i only get it around 76-80.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19206039
> 
> 
> After watching this, I believe I'll try to keep my complaints to a minimum, lol.
> 
> * A Climb Up The Tallest Tower *



Story behind how the video was posted (and later removed) on this blog here .


I'd like to know where this tower is located? The KVLY tower is 2,063 feet tall.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19208020
> 
> 
> it can be your antenna is getting depleted by weather, i use to get wedw from ct at 90+ on my tv signal meter, all thru summer months. now i only get it around 76-80.



Nope, that's not it. I have 2 antenna systems not even a year old and both show the same signal reduction.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/19208080
> 
> 
> Story behind how the video was posted (and later removed) on this blog here .
> 
> 
> I'd like to know where this tower is located? The KVLY tower is 2,063 feet tall.



Wow, thanks, what a story!! I feel bad for that poor guy who might be run out of the business.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19207382
> 
> 
> Thanks Ryan, and to George from Indiana for a constructive and educational post. However, I would be greatly surprised if such a large drop in NJN's signal from 100, (the past 2 1/2 years), to 78-80 is due to atmospheric conditions, but hey, you learn something new every day. That's why I'm here.



Compared to a few months ago, it is actually up 2.2dB in received signal strength here. WNJB is higher as well (separate antenna).



That could be because of the leaves falling off the trees, and nothiing else.


I did notice the MER being slightly down though.


I don't think they cut back power, at least not significantly. It could be co-channel interference or something else.


WNBC is down about 3dB here (power). MER is 34dB which is the same as a few months ago.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19209501
> 
> 
> Compared to a few months ago, it is actually up 2.2dB in received signal strength here. WNJB is higher as well (separate antenna).
> 
> 
> 
> That could be because of the leaves falling off the trees, and nothiing else.
> 
> 
> I did notice the MER being slightly down though.
> 
> 
> I don't think they cut back power, at least not significantly. It could be co-channel interference or something else.
> 
> 
> WNBC is down about 3dB here (power). MER is 34dB which is the same as a few months ago.



Thanks Ryan.


I'm sure it's not my antennas because no other channels have changed in signal strength. But I have 3 questions.


1. Is it possible NJN might have changed the direction of their transmitter without reducing power so that folks out of state cannot receive them as well?


2. What other channel 51 could possibly be the co-channel culprit? I only see a WMDR-LD (TEL) in Hartford CT. 65-1. I've never seen that station before and unless they recently increased their signal I don't think that could be it.


3. What is MER?


Now I'm really curious and I will call NJN engineering this coming week.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19210222
> 
> 
> Thanks Ryan.
> 
> 
> I'm sure it's not my antennas because no other channels have changed in signal strength. But I have 3 questions.
> 
> 
> 1. Is it possible NJN might have changed the direction of their transmitter without reducing power so that folks out of state cannot receive them as well?



I don't think they would. They'd have to file with the FCC to do so, no? And I don't think NJN would want to restrict its signals out of state. If anything they want to broaden their audience.



> Quote:
> 2. What other channel 51 could possibly be the co-channel culprit? I only see a WMDR-LD (TEL) in Hartford CT. 65-1. I've never seen that station before and unless they recently increased their signal I don't think that could be it.



No idea. I didn't say that co-channel was the culprit, but it could be a reason.

It could be anything quite honestly. Usually co channel and multipath are the reasons to see a drop off in MER when signal strength remains the same.



> Quote:
> 3. What is MER?



Modulation Error Ratio. Basically digital SNR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_error_ratio


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19210332
> 
> 
> Modulation Error Ratio. Basically digital SNR.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_error_ratio



1. Ok

2. Ok

3. Thanks! See, one does learn something everyday.


I will post an update after speaking with NJN.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19210456
> 
> 
> 1. Ok
> 
> 2. Ok
> 
> 3. Thanks! See, one does learn something everyday.
> 
> 
> I will post an update after speaking with NJN.



paxtv ch 31 was giving me fits for a few days, lots of breakup, signal oscillating all over the place. pax 31, is usually one of my best channels all the way to right on meter, along with abc and pix11 . tonight is rock solid again. I'm thinking maybe they were doing work on txmiter relay or antenna. pax txs from esb?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19208020
> 
> 
> it can be your antenna is getting depleted by weather, i use to get wedw from ct at 90+ on my tv signal meter, all thru summer months. now i only get it around 76-80.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19211333
> 
> 
> paxtv ch 31 was giving me fits for a few days, lots of breakup, signal oscillating all over the place. pax 31, is usually one of my best channels all the way to right on meter, along with abc and pix11 . tonight is rock solid again. I'm thinking maybe they were doing work on txmiter relay or antenna. pax txs from esb?



Why don't you fix your antenna nyc?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19211744
> 
> 
> Why don't you fix your antenna nyc?




what the devil do you mean? lol is not my end is the blody broadcasters, they don't have a clue how to run the show.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19213681
> 
> 
> what the devil do you mean? lol is not my end is the blody broadcasters, they don't have a clue how to run the show.



Ha ha, finally!! I've been waiting for months for someone else besides me to say that, but I did make that comment because you said your antenna system had been damaged by weather conditions.


----------



## raj2001

huh wpxn is perfect here. Has been for months.


----------



## SnellKrell

You're fortunate!


I haven't been able to receive it ever since it moved lower down on the ESB with the promise of moving up to the Antenna Mast. I've e-mailed the station asking about when the move will take place - it was supposed to have been 13 months ago - and, of course, never the courtesy of a reply.


The company came out of bankruptcy not too long ago, but continue to be bankrupt in dealing with viewers!


----------



## raj2001

It hasn't been fine here all along. It only started coming in reliably when I put up the super death ray on the tower along with the LNA, feed and phasing line improvements along with proper alignment and tweaks I did over the summer. But as of late there hasn't been any loss of signal from Ion at all, so my comment was more about recent developments not the status quo.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19214173
> 
> 
> huh wpxn is perfect here. Has been for months.



i bet you don't get wliw? i'm thinking that ota is doomed to fail, with all the hype of HD. its a matter of months when fcc is gonna sell of the tv frequencies.


----------



## raj2001

I don't get WLIW. It's way too far.


I guess if I put the antenna 10-20 feet higher and phased 2 more I could probably get it. But it's not in HD so I won't even bother.


The good news is that FCC's not going to sell the frequencies.


The bad news is that they're allowing white space devices.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

For whatever reason, (probably just an accident), the video has returned on WKOB's RTV. Continues to be in B&W, (with the exception of the locally inserted commercials), along with the same audio, (surround channel's only), and video glitches.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/19205032
> 
> 
> WNBC is still operating at reduced power. The atmospheric conditions were kind of rough yesterday, to say the least.
> 
> 
> I find it odd that WNBC operating at 50% power is still far stronger than WWOR currently is, yet WWOR has never reported operating at less than full capacity and they used to have a reasonably reliable signal for the past few years. It seems the FCC rules are treated differently by GE and News Corp.



WNBC has been at 85% power since 9/13.


----------



## AloEuro

42-3 Retro TV is running early color of 60',70's shows, and B/W prime time, plus Info-mercial, unfortunately no sound, as said elsewhere about Audio on surround, it means conv. box/Analog TV users have Video but no Audio, you must be stiff bored to watch this junk TV


----------



## nyctveng

fcc is looking to free up 120mhz of space to sell. ch31-51



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19214426
> 
> 
> I don't get WLIW. It's way too far.
> 
> 
> I guess if I put the antenna 10-20 feet higher and phased 2 more I could probably get it. But it's not in HD so I won't even bother.
> 
> 
> The good news is that FCC's not going to sell the frequencies.
> 
> 
> The bad news is that they're allowing white space devices.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19217231
> 
> 
> 42-3 Retro TV is running early color of 60',70's shows, and B/W prime time, you must be stiff bored to watch this junk TV



Hey Dude.







Antenna TV is slated to run stuff like Three's Company, Married With Children, Sanford & Sons, Too Close for Comfort, Good Times, The Partridge Family, Maude, The Nanny and Benny Hill. Just the kind of stuff that chased me from TVLand years ago!! *NOBODY* has a line-up of classic Golden-Age television with great prints and sufficient bandwidth like RTV.


----------



## nycdigital09

the bad news is that they're allowing white space devices.

__________________

Ryan, N2RJ


yeah dude, but those frequencies (radio frequencies) are taking a hit ;-)


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19223872
> 
> 
> the bad news is that they're allowing white space devices.
> 
> __________________
> 
> Ryan, N2RJ
> 
> 
> yeah dude, but those frequencies (radio frequencies) are taking a hit ;-)



You think so? I don't think so. With white space devices they could accomplish their goals without repacking.


----------



## nycdigital09

they'll packing alot of devices wireless internet, thats a whole lot to muster in very small spectrum, are you still looking to get another cm 4228 someone ebay is selling one for $45 says new.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19223949
> 
> 
> they'll packing alot of devices wireless internet, thats a whole lot to muster in very small spectrum, are you still looking to get another cm 4228 someone ebay is selling one for $45 says new.



Nah not really looking for one but thanks anyway!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19223949
> 
> 
> are you still looking to get another cm 4228 someone ebay is selling one for $45 says new.



Do you guys think if I purchased one of these it would overcome my multi-path issues on CBS and NBC without having to raise my antennas? I currently have a Winegard VHF/UHF 7084P and a Winegard UHF 9095P.


Thanks!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19224052
> 
> 
> Do you guys think if I purchased one of these it would overcome my multi-path issues on CBS and NBC without having to raise my antennas? I currently have a Winegard VHF/UHF 7084P and a Winegard UHF 9095P.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



the antenna selling on ebay is cm 4228 old stock.







is very hard antenna to get now. is defunct. antenna picks up signals from the back as much as the front. ryan has two cm 4228 old stock he would know better. imo you be better of with yagi type ei. 91xg but it maybe it's overkill you been so close to esb. DFL have you tried installing an fm trap. i use one i have strong fm interference all over here it helps with overly strong signals that oscillate on signal meter. i been tempted to get the cm 4228. it being that is hard to come by. supposedly is the best commercial uhf antenna for deep fringe.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19224329
> 
> 
> the antenna selling on ebay is cm 4228 old stock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is very hard antenna to get now. is defunct. antenna picks up signals from the back as much as the front. ryan has two cm 4228 old stock he would know better. imo you be better of with yagi type ei. 91xg but it maybe it's overkill you been so close to esb. DFL have you tried installing an fm trap. i use one i have strong fm interference all over here it helps with overly strong signals that oscillate on signal meter. i been tempted to get the cm 4228. it being that is hard to come by. supposedly is the best commercial uhf antenna for deep fringe.



Thank you very much for your comments NYC!! Don't understand how FM frequencies could be interfering with UHF signals, but no, I have not tried an FM trap. It's gonna be expensive for me whether or not I raise my current antennas or opt for this one to replace my Winegard UHF 9095P as I don't have room for 3. I doubt one mast could handle 2 antennas nor could my Channel Master digital rotor. I'd like to hear what Ryan, Trip and others have to say.


BTW, I can't find that $45 auction you referred to, but there are 3 other sellers offering a total of 22 or more of these, so how rare could they be?

* http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_adv=1&_since=15&_nkw=cm+4228&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_okw=cm+4228&_oexkw=&_adv=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=Zip+code&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50 *


----------



## DeadFormatLover

I am so disgusted. One of my very favorite CBS shows, NCIS: Los Angeles Season 2 premieres tonight at 9PM with not one but two new episodes and CBS is popping in and out. Looks like I'll be forced to DVHS it off Cablevision's horrible compressed feed. Sooooo frustrating.


----------



## SnellKrell

Coming in loud and clear here on the Upper East Side.


One of my most reliable stations OTA!


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Thanks, that makes me feel real good. Rub it in fella.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19225326
> 
> 
> Thanks, that makes me feel real good. Rub it in fella.



It has nothing to do with rubbing it in. It has to do with that the problem is with you not WCBS. That's all!


----------



## DeadFormatLover

I know you weren't rubbing it in, and yes it is partially me, however Jeff Birch of CBS told me the North Shore of Long Island and beyond is in a dead zone. Sadly it'll be around 7 or more months if ever until WLIW allows CBS to use their facilities for a channel 22 translator.


----------



## SnellKrell

Do you really think it's WLIW holding things up by withholding permission?


WNET and WLIW are in serious financial trouble and I would imagine that rent being paid by CBS would come in handy immediately!


----------



## DeadFormatLover

I stand corrected. He told me WLIW had already given their permission but for whatever reason it would take that long.


----------



## SnellKrell

Don't know if you're aware that WCBS has raised its power from 284kW ERP to 333kW.


333kW is an interim level, the Commission has approved 426kW ERP.


The installation of proper transmission lines and work concerning the Combiner at the ESB has held up this final increase in power.


At the end of April this year, the station thought that the necessary work would be completed in 6 months. I have no idea where things stand as of today.


I hope this further increase in power might help you.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

I wasn't aware of the technical info, but I do remember Jeff Birch telling me that, however, he also added when it involves multi-path issues, that increase might possibly make things worse rather than better, but I'm hoping for the latter.










Thanks SnellKrell!!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19224600
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for your comments NYC!! Don't understand how FM frequencies could be interfering with UHF signals, but no, I have not tried an FM trap. It's gonna be expensive for me whether or not I raise my current antennas or opt for this one to replace my Winegard UHF 9095P as I don't have room for 3. I doubt one mast could handle 2 antennas nor could my Channel Master digital rotor. I'd like to hear what Ryan, Trip and others have to say.
> 
> 
> BTW, I can't find that $45 auction you referred to, but there are 3 other sellers offering a total of 22 or more of these, so how rare could they be?
> 
> * http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_adv=1&_since=15&_nkw=cm+4228&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_okw=cm+4228&_oexkw=&_adv=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=Zip+code&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50 *



dfl is not that one







here http://cgi.ebay.com/Channel-Master-8...item1c158a3867 is large antenna, if you like i sent you a 91xg i have an extra 1 i don't use.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19225750
> 
> 
> dfl is not that one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here http://cgi.ebay.com/Channel-Master-8...item1c158a3867 is large antenna, if you like i sent you a 91xg i have an extra 1 i don't use.



Wow NYC, what a kind offer!!! So this is a different antenna than those listed within this link, * http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_adv=1&_since=15&_nkw=cm+4228&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_okw=cm+4228&_oexkw=&_adv=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=Zip+code&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50 *? What are it's dimensions?


I really need to do some research and hear some more comments from our resident experts here, such as will this antenna overcome my current multi-path issues? I'm also concerned about wind resistance as well after last Friday's Tornados. My antennas are now 15 ft. high at the peak of a very steep roof. When I moved them 2 condo roofs over last Nov-Dec, (the roofer destroyed both of my old antennas), they were previously 20 & 25 ft. respectively, thus my concern, and most likely the culprit behind my current problems receiving NBC and specifically CBS, not to mention my condo board potentially giving me a hard time with the aesthetic appearance of this monster fence 25 ft. up.










Hopefully some more folks will chime in. Thanks very much!!


----------



## LenL

I have the previous version the plain CM4228 with a cm 7777 preamp. IT seems to work very well for me. The CM4228HD is basically the same design. Each of us are probably in very different reception situations and so it is hard to say what works for one person will work for another. From all of my research this antenna and the 7777 preamp are high up on the list of the best of the best.


I don't think you will find too many antennas that will stay up in a tornado. Plus we are not in a tornado prone area and they are very isolated to touching down in specific streets and not a widespread event like a hurricane.


We have had some pretty good wind from thunderstorms etc and my antenna has not budged.


I must add that I have tinkered with a Gray-Hoverman GH6 home built with Narods and combined with a 7777 preamp it performs as well as the CM4228. If you are at all handy and want to try a fun project I would recommend it.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19225341
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with rubbing it in. It has to do with that the problem is with you not WCBS. That's all!



I'm not so sure of that. WCBS-33, usually one of my strongest signals was pretty terrible this week. I didn't have full dropouts but I had a few times where it started to tile. Everything else was as normal.


It could just be weather... I suppose?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19226924
> 
> 
> I have the previous version the plain CM4228 with a cm 7777 preamp. IT seems to work very well for me. The CM4228HD is basically the same design.



I have two of the old 4228 (called the 4228A). They work very well, phased together with a Winegard SD 3700 and twin lead to eliminate balun losses. It does radiate out the back but that can be fixed by tying the screens together with tywraps.


However, the new 4228HD is a step down. The UHF reception was compromised to make the VHF reception better.


I have no more need to buy OTA antennas really. If I'm replacing the 4228A stack I'll go with a pair of XG91s or similar.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19225165
> 
> 
> Looks like I'll be forced to DVHS it off Cablevision's horrible compressed feed. Sooooo frustrating.



Is cablevision really adding compression to OTA signals? Have you measured this, or are you just speculating?


----------



## nycdigital09

looking at dx website http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html#hour24 should be a good couple days, full moon tomorrow night.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19209501
> 
> 
> Compared to a few months ago, it is actually up 2.2dB in received signal strength here. WNJB is higher as well (separate antenna).
> 
> 
> 
> That could be because of the leaves falling off the trees, and nothiing else.
> 
> 
> I did notice the MER being slightly down though.
> 
> 
> I don't think they cut back power, at least not significantly. It could be co-channel interference or something else.
> 
> 
> WNBC is down about 3dB here (power). MER is 34dB which is the same as a few months ago.



I am truly bewildered. Just spoke with a Scott at NJN. He said there has been no power reduction in any of their signals at NJN, but that he would have my usual contact there, NJN Assistant Director Of Engineering Rick Williams call me back. For once I am at a loss for words!!!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19226924
> 
> 
> I have the previous version the plain CM4228 with a cm 7777 preamp. IT seems to work very well for me. The CM4228HD is basically the same design. Each of us are probably in very different reception situations and so it is hard to say what works for one person will work for another. From all of my research this antenna and the 7777 preamp are high up on the list of the best of the best.
> 
> 
> I don't think you will find too many antennas that will stay up in a tornado. Plus we are not in a tornado prone area and they are very isolated to touching down in specific streets and not a widespread event like a hurricane.
> 
> 
> We have had some pretty good wind from thunderstorms etc and my antenna has not budged.
> 
> 
> I must add that I have tinkered with a Gray-Hoverman GH6 home built with Narods and combined with a 7777 preamp it performs as well as the CM4228. If you are at all handy and want to try a fun project I would recommend it.



Thank you Len. Just to clarify, the plain CM4228 is * this one * and the one NYC has offered me is * this one *? Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the large one? I also looked into the * Channel Master CM7777 Titan2 * at Solid Signal and from prior experience the 23 db VHF gain and the 26 db UHF gain on this amp would without a doubt overload my system. I cannot exceed a 17-19 db gain here. Unfortunately, I am not at all handy enough to build my own antenna. I'm real good at setting up video systems indoors though.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19228390
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure of that. WCBS-33, usually one of my strongest signals was pretty terrible this week. I didn't have full dropouts but I had a few times where it started to tile. Everything else was as normal.
> 
> 
> It could just be weather... I suppose?



It is very perplexing. Sunday and Monday nights I received CBS all evening without so much as a single drop-out. Last night it was popping in and out prior to 9PM, then after that it literally disappeared. As far as I could tell, there was no tropo and the weather conditions were just about identical all 3 evenings.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19228399
> 
> 
> I have two of the old 4228 (called the 4228A). They work very well, phased together with a Winegard SD 3700 and twin lead to eliminate balun losses. It does radiate out the back but that can be fixed by tying the screens together with tywraps.
> 
> 
> However, the new 4228HD is a step down. The UHF reception was compromised to make the VHF reception better.



So neither of the above is the old 4228A correct? It appears that these U/V 4228's are apparently not for me, as VHF reception here is perfect, particularly because I'm receiving WKOB with a solid 90 signal strength today, the highest I've ever seen it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19228414
> 
> 
> Is cablevision really adding compression to OTA signals? Have you measured this, or are you just speculating?



Not speculation. If you were here I could show you an A/B comparison. You would not only see a startling difference in the richness of the video quality, but as well you would hear the difference in the quality of the Digital Dolby sound. Like night and day!!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19228424
> 
> 
> looking at dx website http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html#hour24 should be a good couple days, full moon tomorrow night.



Will look forward to it NYC!!


----------



## LenL

The CM4228 HD is the new model and some say it is not as good as the old one.


Also depending on where you live you may not need a preamp. I would have to look to see where Great Neck is located. If you are within 20-30 miles of NY City with decent LOS to the ESB you may not need a preamp.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19228895
> 
> 
> So neither of the above is the old 4228A correct?



My two antennas are identical 4228As purchased in 2008 before they were discontinued.



> Quote:
> It appears that these U/V 4228's are apparently not for me, as VHF reception here is perfect, particularly because I'm receiving WKOB with a solid 90 signal strength today, the highest I've ever seen it.



The VHF on the 4228 is high VHF, not low VHF. The back screen performs as a radiating element which gives it a little gain on VHF high. For VHF low it is close to useless. You'd get WKOB on a coat hanger quite honestly.




> Quote:
> Not speculation. If you were here I could show you an A/B comparison. You would not only see a startling difference in the richness of the video quality, but as well you would hear the difference in the quality of the Digital Dolby sound. Like night and day!!



I don't think they overcompress it. It might just be their crappy box. They don't 3 pack local HD but they do share the bandwidth with the subs... however since the OTA signal also shares with the subs that should not be an issue. I'm curious to know if someone has done an actual comparison of the bitrates.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19225165
> 
> 
> I am so disgusted. One of my very favorite CBS shows, NCIS: Los Angeles Season 2 premieres tonight at 9PM with not one but two new episodes and CBS is popping in and out. Looks like I'll be forced to DVHS it off Cablevision's horrible compressed feed. Sooooo frustrating.



cablevision compresses hd channels up to 3 per qam but they do not compress local hd channels.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19229109
> 
> 
> cablevision compresses hd channels up to 3 per qam but they do not compress local hd channels.



Most cable providers do 3 per QAM. Quite honestly there is nothing wrong with 3 per QAM for some channels because they're coming down from the sats overcompressed to begin with...


----------



## nycdigital09

So neither of the above is the old 4228A correct? It appears that these U/V 4228's are apparently not for me, as VHF reception here is perfect, particularly because I'm receiving WKOB with a solid 90 signal strength today, the highest I've ever seen it. originally posted by deadformatlover


the link i gave you is for the old stock cm 4228A. not 4228HD the previous is better than the latter










here is link that has comparisons http://www.highdefforum.com/797415-post30.html


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19229109
> 
> 
> cablevision compresses hd channels up to 3 per qam but they do not compress local hd channels.



It is my understanding that FCC Regulations prohibit cable service providers from "degrading" (i.e., compressing) the signals of must-carry local broadcasters.


----------



## SnellKrell

Lots of luck with that one!


----------



## DeadFormatLover

LenL, I believe Great Neck is about 12 to 13 aerial miles from the ESB, however my line if sight is poor because I'm in a valley.


raj2001 and NYC, I think I'm going to stick with what I have for now and raise both antennas and see what happens first before I delve into a new antenna. Everything worked very well, even CBS when my old antennas were 2 roofs over. I believe in that previous location I was just lucky and got a decent shot through the trees and buildings, and as I mentioned they were 20 and 25 up as opposed to only 15 ft. now.


raj2001, nyctveng, and johnosolis, you're all welcome to visit me and see the diff bet. any of the OTA channels vs. Cablevision, though I wouldn't doubt the crappy Cisco boxes might be the culprit. SnellKrell knows.


----------



## SnellKrell

I do?


Thank you, but I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19229516
> 
> 
> I do?
> 
> 
> Thank you, but I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to!



Ha ha, sorry I misunderstood your "Lots of luck with that one!" post.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

So the rains came and CBS & NBC have disappeared.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19230712
> 
> 
> So the rains came and CBS & NBC have disappeared.



yeah, there was no cbs tonight from 6-6:30 pm during cbs local news. anyone else noticed, afterwards when both stations showed up they came in great. atmospherics ?


----------



## DeadFormatLover

At that hour, unlikely. Possibly this fellow drained the signal from CBS for about 30 minutes.


----------



## nycdigital09

galaxy being lol i love the outer limits the original always the best. you mention that you live in a valley http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:7,s:0


----------



## DeadFormatLover

If only ...









*"The Galaxy Being" September 16, 1963*
_The engineer of radio station KXKVI (sic), who is researching microwave background noise, inadvertently gets an alien from the Andromeda Galaxy on his three-dimensional television screen. Both are conducting illicit experiments; the human being should not be using the radio station's power, and the alien is forbidden to contact Earth "because you are danger to other galaxies." *Despite warnings from the alien about applying excessive power to the communication, an undisciplined disc jockey turns it up whilst the engineer is being feted at a banquet.* The power surge causes the microwave creature to be pulled through the communications apparatus and to appear on Earth. Although it has no desire to cause harm, its unearthly composition wreaks havoc by radiation, electrical blackouts, atmospheric disturbances, and overloaded-circuit explosions. While authorities quickly mobilize to attack the "hostile" alien, the engineer desperately tries to find a way to get it back to its home planet.
_


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19219855
> 
> 
> Hey Dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antenna TV is slated to run stuff like Three's Company, Married With Children, Sanford & Sons, Too Close for Comfort, Good Times, The Partridge Family, Maude, The Nanny and Benny Hill. Just the kind of stuff that chased me from TVLand years ago!! *NOBODY* has a line-up of classic Golden-Age television with great prints and sufficient bandwidth like RTV.



Certainly the line up is very good the too old for young to know worthy to watch, however it seems to me that the ch.42 is still searching-testing signal

the primary 42-1 strictly religious broadcast with Audio mostly or Video of -1 on 42-2, the 42-4 only color bars, no program,nada, 42-3 REtro have sound but lots of stills pix


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19238387
> 
> 
> Certainly the line up is very good the too old for young to know worthy to watch, however it seems to me that the ch.42 is still searching-testing signal
> 
> the primary 42-1 strictly religious broadcast with Audio mostly or Video of -1 on 42-2, the 42-4 only color bars, no program,nada, 42-3 REtro have sound but lots of stills pix



They are going to get smashed by Antenna TV. A networked backed Old time Tv channel. Will always win. Imo.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19234392
> 
> 
> If only ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Galaxy Being" September 16, 1963*
> _The engineer of radio station KXKVI (sic), who is researching microwave background noise, inadvertently gets an alien from the Andromeda Galaxy on his three-dimensional television screen. Both are conducting illicit experiments; the human being should not be using the radio station's power, and the alien is forbidden to contact Earth "because you are danger to other galaxies." *Despite warnings from the alien about applying excessive power to the communication, an undisciplined disc jockey turns it up whilst the engineer is being feted at a banquet.* The power surge causes the microwave creature to be pulled through the communications apparatus and to appear on Earth. Although it has no desire to cause harm, its unearthly composition wreaks havoc by radiation, electrical blackouts, atmospheric disturbances, and overloaded-circuit explosions. While authorities quickly mobilize to attack the "hostile" alien, the engineer desperately tries to find a way to get it back to its home planet.
> _



they show the outer limts original black on white on thistv. if you goto their website they have schedule and episode list.

my personal favorite from ol is the man that was never born.


----------



## nycdigital09

deadformatlover how is cbs reception wise during the daylight hours, compare with evening ? is cbs antenna on esb directional, just thinking cos wfsb in same rf ch 33 you probably getting some co-channel interference that would hinder your viewing. i remember back on analog when we got co-channel we would see, artifacts on screen but you could still see channel, but with dtv you get screwed


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19238387
> 
> 
> Certainly the line up is very good the too old for young to know worthy to watch, however it seems to me that the ch.42 is still searching-testing signal
> 
> the primary 42-1 strictly religious broadcast with Audio mostly or Video of -1 on 42-2, the 42-4 only color bars, no program,nada, 42-3 REtro have sound but lots of stills pix



Quite true, however there's a tremendous viewing audience across the country within that age group who watched these shows as youngsters. Just look at the * RTV Facebook * page. They are adding coverage to new markets just about once a week. It is unfortunate they chose WKOB, a bottom of the barrel operation no doubt, but even with the technical problems, (I am not seeing only still pix), it seems that the shows which are broadcast early in the day are viewable. No idea why but by mid-afternoon and evening the strobing gets worse and worse. It is also strange that there's no response by RTV on Facebook to anyone who has posted about WKOB's problems.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

I spoke with NJN Assistant Director Of Engineering today. Just about the date I first reported a significant reduction in channel 50's signal one of their 3 exciter amplifiers failed. They are waiting for a new one which he said once installed should restore their signal to where it was prior to Sept. 13. He also told me they just boosted the signal on 58-1 (VHF channel 8) by 115%!!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19239609
> 
> 
> they show the outer limts original black on white on thistv. if you goto their website they have schedule and episode list.
> 
> my personal favorite from ol is the man that was never born.



Yes I know, I got 'em all taped from Hulu.com. Much better quality!! Love that ep. too!!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19239635
> 
> 
> deadformatlover how is cbs reception wise during the daylight hours, compare with evening ? is cbs antenna on esb directional, just thinking cos wfsb in same rf ch 33 you probably getting some co-channel interference that would hinder your viewing. i remember back on analog when we got co-channel we would see, artifacts on screen but you could still see channel, but with dtv you get screwed



It's hit and miss, but yes usually CBS is better during daylight hours, but the thing is I have the very same issues with NBC too.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19239694
> 
> 
> He also told me they just boosted the signal on 58-1 (VHF channel 8) by 115%!!



That must mean they're now at 40 kW as requested under STA.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19239609
> 
> 
> they show the outer limts original black on white on thistv. if you goto their website they have schedule and episode list.
> 
> my personal favorite from ol is the man that was never born.



I'm a huge fan of the original Outer Limits. My favorite episode is The Inheritors. (The remake was horrible.)


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19239845
> 
> 
> I'm a huge fan of the original Outer Limits. My favorite episode is The Inheritors. (The remake was horrible.)
> 
> 
> - Trip



You have impeccable taste Trip!!

* The Inheritors, Part 1 *

* The Inheritors, Part 2 *


I never knew there was a remake?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19239972
> 
> 
> You have impeccable taste Trip!!



Hehe. It's a wonderful episode.



> Quote:
> I never knew there was a remake?


 http://www.tv.com/episode/21524/summary.html 
http://www.tv.com/video/10399639/ 


I managed to make it through the whole thing, somehow. Absolutely terrible.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19240127
> 
> 
> Hehe. It's a wonderful episode.
> 
> http://www.tv.com/episode/21524/summary.html
> http://www.tv.com/video/10399639/
> 
> 
> I managed to make it through the whole thing, somehow. Absolutely terrible.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Oh ok, the new Outer Limits. Yeah I'm watching it now but I'll take your advice and skip it. Never liked any of those. I was reading on YouTube all these folks posting how the second series was superior to the original. I was dumbfounded, buy hey, to each his own.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19240209
> 
> 
> Oh ok, the new Outer Limits. Yeah I'm watching it now but I'll take your advice and skip it. Never liked any of those. I was reading on YouTube all these folks posting how the second series was superior to the original. I was dumbfounded, buy hey, to each his own.



i have watched some of the newer outer limits episodes. some are have good storylines, special effects are better, but the story line, and screenplay is not though. original has some bad stories also. my opinion, the best sci-fi series hands down.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/19229334
> 
> 
> It is my understanding that FCC Regulations prohibit cable service providers from "degrading" (i.e., compressing) the signals of must-carry local broadcasters.



They prohibit material degradation. That mean it must not "look" worse than the OTA signal. In other words, they can use more compression as long as no one complains.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19229487
> 
> 
> raj2001, nyctveng, and johnosolis, you're all welcome to visit me and see the diff bet. any of the OTA channels vs. Cablevision, though I wouldn't doubt the crappy Cisco boxes might be the culprit. SnellKrell knows.



Great neck... sure, someday when I have the time I'll take a drive out to LawnGuyLand.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19239845
> 
> 
> I'm a huge fan of the original Outer Limits. My favorite episode is The Inheritors. (The remake was horrible.)
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip Just curious if you heard of any more surprises like Antenna tv? Anything new coming? they are really missing a 24 hour news channel.


Speaking of Antenna TV is WPIX going to pick it up? Any news on that front?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19241442
> 
> 
> Great neck... sure, someday when I have the time I'll take a drive out to LawnGuyLand.



LawnGuyLand, hahahaha, I'm in a condo, no lawn, but you're always welcome.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19241992
> 
> 
> Trip Just curious if you heard of any more surprises like Antenna tv? Anything new coming?


  


Let's hope this doesn't show up on WKOB.


----------



## Trip in VA

Tuff TV is nothing to write home about. If it showed up anywhere, WKOB-LD would be the place. That said, I have no info, that's pure speculation.


I've heard nothing about new stuff coming to New York besides Antenna TV, which is still too far out in the future to know anything for sure.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19243952
> 
> 
> Tuff TV is nothing to write home about. If it showed up anywhere, WKOB-LD would be the place. That said, I have no info, that's pure speculation.
> 
> 
> I've heard nothing about new stuff coming to New York besides Antenna TV, which is still too far out in the future to know anything for sure.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yeah, I agree, looks weak, but *ARE YOU A TUFF GUY*? LOL!!


Btw, I think someone from RTV is reading this thread, because after I posted the name & number of their affiliates guy, someone posted it on their Facebook page referencing back to a "thread on another forum." That post was deleted within hours. Also yesterday, when I posted that no one from RTV had responded to anyone complaining about WKOB, today I noticed this ...

*Paul Lawrence* WKOB (42.3) in New York City continues broadcasting RTV in black/white and out of sync audio. It seems strange that over the past couple weeks the local affiliate can not fix this issue. At what point does RTV consider pulling the affiliate.....?

21 hours ago

*Retro Television Network* engineers are working on it. 15 hours ago


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19244018
> 
> 
> Yeah, I agree, looks weak, but *ARE YOU A TUFF GUY*? LOL!!
> 
> 
> Btw, I think someone from RTV is reading this thread, because after I posted the name & number of their affiliates guy, someone posted it on their Facebook page referencing back to a "thread on another forum." That post was deleted within hours. Also yesterday, when I posted that no one from RTV had responded to anyone complaining about WKOB, today I noticed this ...
> 
> *Paul Lawrence* WKOB (42.3) in New York City continues broadcasting RTV in black/white and out of sync audio. It seems strange that over the past couple weeks the local affiliate can not fix this issue. At what point does RTV consider pulling the affiliate.....?
> 
> 21 hours ago
> 
> *Retro Television Network* engineers are working on it. 15 hours ago




deadformatlover, are you rockin the boat


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19243856
> 
> 
> LawnGuyLand, hahahaha, I'm in a condo, no lawn, but you're always welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's hope this doesn't show up on WKOB.



Not really a channel for my aunt. More like a MAN channel.





























*

TUFF TV launched on June 30, 2009. TUFF TV is the first digital broadcast network to offer original programming targeted at men and the specific pursuits, interests, and hobbies they are passionate about. TUFF TV includes a unique and synergistic combination of programming genres aimed at the male demographic. TUFF TV provides the first-ever mix of these specific genres on one network. Programming content consists of Sports, Lifestyle, Drama, Reality, Talk, Specials, and Movies.


TUFF TV was created by Lou Seals, CEO of Atlanta-based Seals Entertainment Company, LLC (Sealsco). Sealsco is a leading independent owner and producer of television programming. TUFF TV is a joint venture between Luken Communications, LLC and TUFF TV Media Group, LLC. Luken Communications, headquartered in Chattanooga, Tennessee, is led by technology entrepreneur Henry Luken. Luken Communications also owns the digital broadcast network Retro Television (RTV). RTV was launched in 2005 and reaches over 77 million homes across the United States.*


----------



## raj2001

I like the name "tuff tv" better than that other man network... "Spike TV"


Jeez, "Spike TV" almost sounds like (another name for rooster) TV...


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19244615
> 
> 
> I like the name "tuff tv" better than that other man network... "Spike TV"
> 
> 
> Jeez, "Spike TV" almost sounds like (another name for rooster) TV...



I agree. someone shoud come strait out and called it the guy channel. its all marketing ploy


speed channel, outdoors man channel i never watch any of those hyped up channels


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19229487
> 
> 
> raj2001, nyctveng, and johnosolis, you're all welcome to visit me and see the diff bet. any of the OTA channels vs. Cablevision, though I wouldn't doubt the crappy Cisco boxes might be the culprit. SnellKrell knows.



Thanks, man. You're a bud. But I'm a true Brooklynite and don't have a car. I've been to Great Neck, years ago, and know it's a real nice area. Only advantage to living in the BK is its closeness to the ESB for OTA free HDTV and cheap car-less MTA livin'.


BTW, I heard HDTV prices were set to drop just before XMas because of widespread overstock. I maybe wanted to get a small set for the bedroom, but wanted one with a QAM tuner for cable reception of local must-carries. Do smaller sets (I dunno, about 32") have QAM tuners? Or is that a feature of larger sets only?


(Picture Michael's flatscreen from "The Office.")


My living room set is 58" Viera Plasma, but doesn't have QAM tuner, so I use DB2 from Antennas Direct.


Also, just bought new desktop (Win 7, i5, 8G, 1 Terabyte) that has HDMI out connection (I use plasma as monitor). Can I hook DB2 to desktop, to Plasma, then use desktop as DVR? What extra do I need to buy? Tuner? Software? External Hard Drive?


Any good buddy out there know? (Forgive the CB lingo.)


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/19244716
> 
> 
> Thanks, man. You're a bud. But I'm a true Brooklynite and don't have a car. I've been to Great Neck, years ago, and know it's a real nice area. Only advantage to living in the BK is its closeness to the ESB for OTA free HDTV and cheap car-less MTA livin'.
> 
> 
> BTW, I heard HDTV prices were set to drop just before XMas because of widespread overstock. I maybe wanted to get a small set for the bedroom, but wanted one with a QAM tuner for cable reception of local must-carries. Do smaller sets (I dunno, about 32") have QAM tuners? Or is that a feature of larger sets only?
> 
> 
> (Picture Michael's flatscreen from "The Office.")
> 
> 
> My living room set is 58" Viera Plasma, but doesn't have QAM tuner, so I use DB2 from Antennas Direct.
> 
> 
> Also, just bought new desktop (Win 7, i5, 8G, 1 Terabyte) that has HDMI out connection (I use plasma as monitor). Can I hook DB2 to desktop, to Plasma, then use desktop as DVR? What extra do I need to buy? Tuner? Software? External Hard Drive?
> 
> 
> Any good buddy out there know? (Forgive the CB lingo.)




i think pretty much any decent lcd tv has qam built in now, these days, as your question about tuner to record you should look at *hd homerun* will suit the bill. it lets you watch ota over your network it comes with a program that lets your record, mythtv that lets you record and watch tv programs. tripinva has written a review of the hdhomerun on his webiste at rabbitears.info


i have a question for you, with db2 do you mentioned, what stations are you receiving reliably. do you get nj stations 50, 63 whatabout vhf does it get also










ps i'm lookin to purchase a desktop computer with specs similar to what you bought can you tell me model so i can inquire. thxs


----------



## KML-224

Sorry if this is the wrong board for my question, but here goes: Who is using the tall white mast that sits off to the side, atop 4 Times Square? Not the older thinner tower in the center, but the newer and fatter white tower next to it? I couldn't help but notice it while walking east on West 42nd Street by the Port Authority.


----------



## nycdigital09

keyboard 21 whats doing bud ?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/19244716
> 
> 
> Thanks, man. You're a bud. But I'm a true Brooklynite and don't have a car.



If you were a true Brooklynite you'd have a car registered to your grandma's house in Staten Island... or Pennsylvania... or South Carolina... lol


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/19245129
> 
> 
> Sorry if this is the wrong board for my question, but here goes: Who is using the tall white mast that sits off to the side, atop 4 Times Square? Not the older thinner tower in the center, but the newer and fatter white tower next to it? I couldn't help but notice it while walking east on West 42nd Street by the Port Authority.



http://radiomagonline.com/transmissi...quare_antenna/


----------



## johnosolis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19245105
> 
> 
> (1) i have a question for you, with db2 do you mentioned, what stations are you receiving reliably. do you get nj stations 50, 63 whatabout vhf does it get also
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (2)ps i'm lookin to purchase a desktop computer with specs similar to what you bought can you tell me model so i can inquire. thxs



(1) I'm in zip 11206 with DB2 indoors and on ground floor (!!) facing South (!!)and can reliably get: 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 (must reorient the antenna), 13, 17 (who cares?), 25, 31, 34, 39, 41 (sometimes need to reorient), 45, 47, 64 (breaks up a lot), 68. We speak Spanish too, so the Spanish stations are great for movies. No NJ stations. VHF is tough (on 11).


(2) Desktop was ASUS on sale at Best Buy last week for $699. (ASUS is not a brand I'm familiar with, but I'm told most computers are assembled from the same parts anyway and I don't use customer support or rely on warranties). Staples had nothing similar. PC Richard had Dell with same specs, but with Blu-Ray and wireless printing for about $250 more.


----------



## Trip in VA

ASUS makes good stuff. There's a chance you already own some hardware with their stuff in it. They manufacture motherboards and are one of the most popular companies for that. My next laptop might be an ASUS.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/19244716
> 
> 
> Thanks, man. You're a bud. But I'm a true Brooklynite and don't have a car. I've been to Great Neck, years ago, and know it's a real nice area. Only advantage to living in the BK is its closeness to the ESB for OTA free HDTV and cheap car-less MTA livin'.
> 
> 
> BTW, I heard HDTV prices were set to drop just before XMas because of widespread overstock. I maybe wanted to get a small set for the bedroom, but wanted one with a QAM tuner for cable reception of local must-carries. Do smaller sets (I dunno, about 32") have QAM tuners?



Welcome guy. Hey I'm a true Brooklynite too as I was born and raised there as a child!!


As of this week my * QAM tuner * becomes obsolete, even channels 2 thru 13, (thank you FCC.) Aside from all the inconveniences this causes, it will be particularly annoying as it takes their crummy Cisco boxes over 5 minutes to reboot whenever there's a power failure.


This coming Saturday we get wired for Fios. Anyone know if the firewire ports on their Motorola DVR's are activated here in the NY area?


----------



## nycdigital09

This coming Saturday we get wired for Fios. Anyone know if the firewire ports on their Motorola DVR's are activated here in the NY area?

Posted by DeadFormatLover


man your lucky your getting fios, im still with time warner ripoff. don't you wanna come back to your roots you brooklynite. LOL


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19247233
> 
> 
> This coming Saturday we get wired for Fios. Anyone know if the firewire ports on their Motorola DVR's are activated here in the NY area?
> 
> Posted by DeadFormatLover
> 
> 
> man your lucky your getting fios, im still with time warner ripoff. don't you wanna come back to your roots you brooklynite. LOL



I'll let you know just how lucky, unless their firewire ports are not activated which means no * DVHS * recording capability = no Fios for me. Yes, I'm well aware about CrimeWarner, my folks and brother live in Manhattan and they just stink. Just trying to get them on the phone is a nightmare, and when you finally do, you end up speaking with a total moron.


I have fond memories of Brooklyn, but I like it out here a lot more.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19245465
> 
> 
> ASUS makes good stuff. There's a chance you already own some hardware with their stuff in it. They manufacture motherboards and are one of the most popular companies for that. My next laptop might be an ASUS.
> 
> 
> - Trip



ASUSTek is the parent company, but the division that makes OEM motherboards for Apple, Dell, HP and others is actually called Pegatron. So if your motherboard says Pegatron on it, it was made by ASUSTek.


It's actually pronounced Aye-zeus, kinda like the Spanish pronunciation of Jesus.


In fact, it's rumored that ASUSTek is making a CDMA iPhone. My gut says this is true, but I think it's for some overseas carrier, not Verizon.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19247233
> 
> 
> This coming Saturday we get wired for Fios. Anyone know if the firewire ports on their Motorola DVR's are activated here in the NY area?
> 
> Posted by DeadFormatLover
> 
> 
> man your lucky your getting fios, im still with time warner ripoff. don't you wanna come back to your roots you brooklynite. LOL





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19247294
> 
> 
> I'll let you know just how lucky, unless their firewire ports are not activated which means no * DVHS * recording capability = no Fios for me. Yes, I'm well aware about CrimeWarner, my folks and brother live in Manhattan and they just stink. Just trying to get them on the phone is a nightmare, and when you finally do, you end up speaking with a total moron.
> 
> 
> I have fond memories of Brooklyn, but I like it out here a lot more.




If they provide a box with firewire ports it has to be active. FCC rules.


In fact if they didn't give you a box with firewire you can ask for one and they're supposed to give you I think.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19247747
> 
> 
> If they provide a box with firewire ports it has to be active. FCC rules.
> 
> 
> In fact if they didn't give you a box with firewire you can ask for one and they're supposed to give you I think.



Not so Ryan. Cablevision's Explorer 8300HD DVR's firewire outputs are disabled. Only their Explorer 4250HD's (not a DVR), have operating firewire outputs, and those with their Sony boxes have no firewire outputs at all. This is the price I pay for being a DeadFormatLover. In another thread on this forum, folks from outside of NY have stated Fios does have operating firewire outputs, but many months ago, I asked a Fios field tech if theirs did and he said no. I'm hoping he didn't know what he was talking about. I've already discovered getting someone on the phone at Fios who knows what they're talking about is like trying to do so with Crime Warner cable.


----------



## nycdigital09

wooh, dxing tonite, pickin up boston's wgbh and norwich ct whpx si far so goood











anyone else getting distant stations ?


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Not a thing here nyc.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19247294
> 
> 
> I'll let you know just how lucky, unless their firewire ports are not activated which means no * DVHS * recording capability = no Fios for me. Yes, I'm well aware about CrimeWarner, my folks and brother live in Manhattan and they just stink. Just trying to get them on the phone is a nightmare, and when you finally do, you end up speaking with a total moron.
> 
> 
> I have fond memories of Brooklyn, but I like it out here a lot more.



why don't u change to a different format say dvd or blue ray. what is dvhs ? sort of like vhs tape player ? let me guess you got lots of movies on vhs want to convert to digital ? excuse my ignorance


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19248718
> 
> 
> why don't change different format say dvd or blue ray. what is dvhs ? sort of like vhs tape player ? let me guess you got lots of movies on vhs want to convert to digital ? excuse my ignorance


* DVHS * is digital VHS. The DT100U has a built in off-air tuner. I've been archiving since '03 and have thousands of hours of content from OTA and Cable, (records via firewire only.) Click the link and read the specs. Can't capture anything with Blu-Ray yet and not likely anytime soon. Sony wants folks to buy or rent only. DVR's run out of space in no time.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19248892
> 
> * DVHS * is digital VHS. The DT100U has a built in off-air tuner. I've been archiving since '03 and have thousands of hours of content from OTA and Cable, (records via firewire only.) Click the link and read the specs. Can't capture anything with Blu-Ray yet and not likely anytime soon. Sony wants folks to buy or rent only. DVR's run out of space in no time.



Sony wants folks to buy or rent only why because they want to protect copyright issues?


those large company suck a big one. they want to you to pay and pay more for fundamentally being able to copy some digital content that you like. thats one of the reasons that in my opinion most of new gadgets we now use, are really outdated. they been sitting around in labs for years, just because of copyright issues. greedy greedy companies.


----------



## nycdigital09












greed is good


----------



## AloEuro

I wonder what's going on in OTA air space, until recently when I did Add Scan on one of

my boxes, it would go to ch.51 top then, after 5 min. 2passes search, sign off to 2-1

Now, about 5min. 2passes it goes to 60,61, 66, 67 then sign off to cbs2-1, that is indication of extra curricular activity in OTA air space which did not exist 2 weeks ago, anybody knows ?


----------



## KML-224

To amend what I posted recently about the transmitting masts atop 4 Times Square in Manhattan...what is the white mast on the right used for in this picture?

http://www.snapgalaxy.com/KL71/photos/1213978


----------



## SnellKrell

The perspective of the picture leads you to believe that the mast to the right is on 4TS.


It's not. It's the spire atop the new Verizon Building on 6th Avenue.


And I believe this spire is purely decorative.


----------



## KML-224

It was looking east down West 42nd Street. I was standing near the north entrance of the Port Authority Bus Terminal.


----------



## SnellKrell

And here is a picture of the Verizon Building at 6th Avenue and W. 42nd St.!


http://img2.photographersdirect.com/.../pd2059370.jpg


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And here is a picture of the Verizon Building at 6th Avenue and W. 42nd St.!
> 
> http://img2.photographersdirect.com/.../pd2059370.jpg



that's the bank of America building. the building on the

left used to be verizon but was sold a few years ago.


----------



## SnellKrell

I stand and sit corrected.


Trying to decipher my latest phone bill, I had Verizon on my mind.


Nevertheless, that's the other mast that I believe KML-224 saw.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19251160
> 
> 
> The perspective of the picture leads you to believe that the mast to the right is on 4TS.
> 
> 
> It's not. It's the spire atop the new Verizon Building on 6th Avenue.
> 
> 
> And I believe this spire is purely decorative.



i don't like to look up when i'm strutting my stuff in manhattan i hate 2 contradict anyone, that building its bank america


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnosolis* /forum/post/19245323
> 
> 
> (1) I'm in zip 11206 with DB2 indoors and on ground floor (!!) facing South (!!)and can reliably get: 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 (must reorient the antenna), 13, 17 (who cares?), 25, 31, 34, 39, 41 (sometimes need to reorient), 45, 47, 64 (breaks up a lot), 68. We speak Spanish too, so the Spanish stations are great for movies. No NJ stations. VHF is tough (on 11).
> 
> 
> (2) Desktop was ASUS on sale at Best Buy last week for $699. (ASUS is not a brand I'm familiar with, but I'm told most computers are assembled from the same parts anyway and I don't use customer support or rely on warranties). Staples had nothing similar. PC Richard had Dell with same specs, but with Blu-Ray and wireless printing for about $250 more.



actually staples has a good deal on medium budget pc. http://www.staples.com/HP-Pavilion-p...a=WEEKLY+DEALS


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Could someone provide an update to this 2003 * 4 Times Square Antenna Project * article which nycdigital09 posted, like what if any OTA channels are currently broadcasting from this facility, or which ones are planning to?


Thanks!!


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Recently I sent one of my DVHS decks in for repair to the JVC Cypress, CA. repair facility. I just noticed they did a rescan on the built-in OTA tuner. This is what it shows.
*

2-1 KCBS

4-1 NBC-4LA

4-2 WX+ NR

4-4 USN

5-1 KTLA-DT

5-2 This TV

7-1 KABC-DT

7-2 LivWell

7-3 KABC-WN

9-1 KCAL-DT

11-1 KTTV DT

11-2 FOX SD

11-3 Fox SD2

13-1 KCOP DT

18-1 LA18.1

18-2 LA18.2

18-3 LA18.3

18-4 LA18.4

18-5 LA18.5

18-6 LA18.6

18-7 LA18.7

18-8 LA18.8

22-1 KWHY

23-4 AVX

28-1 KCET-HD

28-2 KCET-OC

28-3 KCET-Vm

28-4 KCETW

30-1 ION

30-2 qubo

30-3 IONLife

31-1 KVMD-DT

31-4 VYV-TV

31-5 Skylink

31-6 Berea-V

31-7 TBWTV

31-8 WCETV

31-9 KVMDDT9

31-10 Italian

34-1 KMEX-DT

35-1 KTAV-LD

35-2 KTAV-LD

35-4 KTAV

35-5 KTAV-LD

40-1 TBN

40-2 TCC

40-3 JCTV

40-4 Enlace

40-5 SOAC

44-1 KXLA-DT

44-2 V-TV

44-3 Sk-DTV

44-4 LSTV

44-5 ARIRANG

44-6 IAVC

44-7 NTDTV

44-8 ICN

44-9 IMPACTO

46-1 KFTR-DT

46-2 KFTR-SD

50-1 KOCE-HD

50-2 KOCE-OC

50-3 Daystar

52-1 KVEA-HD

54-1 KAZA DT

54-2 KAZA D2

56-1 KDOC-SD

56-2 ESNE

57-1 KJLA-DT

57-2 LATVNET

57-3 KBC-TV

57-4 SET

57-5 SGTV

57-6 VBS-TV

57-7 VYV-DT

57-8 KVMD-DT

57-9 ZWTV

58-1 KLCS-DT

58-2 KLCS-DT

58-3 KLCS-DT

58-4 KLCS-DT

62-1 KRCA-DT

62-2 HTTV US

62-3 VIDA

62-4 IMIGRAN

63-1 KBEH-DT

63-2 KBEH-DT

63-3 KBEH-DT

63-4 KBEH-DT

63-5 KBEH-DT*


Can you imagine the picture quality of all those sub-channels on 18, 31, 44 and 57???


----------



## nyctveng

ch5 and 9 will be dropping simulcasts of each other in the coming days. dont know the reason, i just know that its happening.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19252882
> 
> 
> Could someone provide an update to this 2003 * 4 Times Square Antenna Project * article which nycdigital09 posted, like what if any OTA channels are currently broadcasting from this facility, or which ones are planning to?
> 
> 
> Thanks!!



Courtesy of Trip at RabbitEars.info


Note that WABC, WXTV and WFUT use 4TS as a backup transmission location.



Channel Call Sign City of License ASRN AGL Record Type HAAT Power


7-1 (7) WABC-TV NEW YORK, NY 1238745 972' DX‑CP 971' 11 kW ND


25-1 (24) WNYE-TV NEW YORK, NY 1238745 1014' DT‑LIC 1016' 151 kW ND


41-1 (40) WXTV-DT PATERSON, NJ 1238745 1053' DX‑CP 1053' 200 kW DA


64-1 (25) WASA-LD PORT JERVIS, NY 1238745 887' LD‑LIC 885' 15 kW DA


68-1 (30) WFUT-DT NEWARK, NJ 1238745 1014' DX‑CP 1014' 80 kW ND


----------



## tld

I'm in central NJ. Tonight I've totally lost 7.1, 11.1, and 13.1. I'm getting less than 20% signal on all of them all of a sudden. Others like 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1 are coming in strong as ever.


Whatever it is must have happened very recently as a show recorded off 7.1 at 4:00 on my MythTV system this afternoon no problem.


Is there anything going on that anyone's aware of that might be causing this??


Thanks

Tom


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19253327
> 
> 
> Courtesy of Trip at RabbitEars.com



.Info, man, .Info!










- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Yet another senior moment!


Trip, my apologies!!!!!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19253327
> 
> 
> Courtesy of Trip at RabbitEars.info
> 
> 
> Note that WABC, WXTV and WFUT use 4TS as a backup transmission location.
> 
> 
> Channel Call Sign City of License ASRN AGL Record Type HAAT Power
> 
> 
> 7-1 (7) WABC-TV NEW YORK, NY 1238745 972' DX‑CP 971' 11 kW ND
> 
> 
> 25-1 (24) WNYE-TV NEW YORK, NY 1238745 1014' DT‑LIC 1016' 151 kW ND
> 
> 
> 41-1 (40) WXTV-DT PATERSON, NJ 1238745 1053' DX‑CP 1053' 200 kW DA
> 
> 
> 64-1 (25) WASA-LD PORT JERVIS, NY 1238745 887' LD‑LIC 885' 15 kW DA
> 
> 
> 68-1 (30) WFUT-DT NEWARK, NJ 1238745 1014' DX‑CP 1014' 80 kW ND



Thank you SnellKrell, and especially to the master, Trip!!!!


I was hoping someone would have said CBS and NBC were moving there.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tld* /forum/post/19253498
> 
> 
> I'm in central NJ. Tonight I've totally lost 7.1, 11.1, and 13.1. I'm getting less than 20% signal on all of them all of a sudden. Others like 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1 are coming in strong as ever.
> 
> 
> Whatever it is must have happened very recently as a show recorded off 7.1 at 4:00 on my MythTV system this afternoon no problem.
> 
> 
> Is there anything going on that anyone's aware of that might be causing this??
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom



All coming in as powerful as always here.


----------



## Greg2600

Hi. I just found out, from another source, that WKOB has RetroTV. I saw on rabbitears.info that they have an antenna on Trump Tower and in Orange, NJ? If that's true, I am basically right in the middle of the two and I can't receive this station at all. What gives?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19245133
> 
> keyboard 21 whats doing bud ?



Sorry been busy.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19254133
> 
> 
> Hi. I just found out, from another source, that WKOB has RetroTV. I saw on rabbitears.info that they have an antenna on Trump Tower and in Orange, NJ? If that's true, I am basically right in the middle of the two and I can't receive this station at all. What gives?



Most of us can't get this Low power Station. No real programing except now RTV. which is not working well at the moment. B7W and sound issues. Plus WPIX might get Antenna TV that Tribune (parent Co) Is coming out Jan 3rd.


That will blow RTV out of the water.


Of Course it is always nice to have an extra channel. RTV made a bad choice in WKOB. imo


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19254358
> 
> 
> Most of us can't get this Low power Station. No real programing except now RTV. which is not working well at the moment. B7W and sound issues. Plus WPIX might get Antenna TV that Tribune (parent Co) Is coming out Jan 3rd.
> 
> 
> That will blow RTV out of the water.
> 
> 
> Of Course it is always nice to have an extra channel. RTV made a bad choice in WKOB. imo



to reiterate what keyboard has said, most of us ota users can't pickup wkob, is because its on real channel ch2, not 42.1 mind you, which necetates the viewer to use a large antenna that uses a dipole of around 8 ft in length, also as stated before its on very low power.


----------



## Greg2600

LOL, why bother operating a TV station nobody can receive? As for RTV, I had it briefly on FIOS via CT channel WSAH. It was horrible, because the audio was constantly out of sync, and the video kept having this red tint. WSAH and FIOS techs pointed the finger at each other, and then WSAH dropped RTV abruptly. RTV has skirted like I said around NYC with these cruddy affiliates. I guess you get what you pay for? Unfortunately, WNYW/WWOR waste their sub channels on each other for coverage holes. RTV won't be allowed on any PBS sub, so they don't have many choices.


I like watching This.TV on WPIX once in a while on my PC and the spare SDTV that has an OTA box. I don't see how WPIX could add another subchannel, though, their picture quality is already fairly compromised. Unfortunately FIOS doesn't carry WPIX-3. I emailed both This and WPIX and received no response whatsoever.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19255992
> 
> 
> As for RTV, I had it briefly on FIOS via CT channel WSAH. It was horrible, because the audio was constantly out of sync, and the video kept having this red tint. WSAH and FIOS techs pointed the finger at each other, and then WSAH dropped RTV abruptly.



It was RTV's fault. That's why WSAH dropped them, because it made them (WSAH) look bad to people like you.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier

Whenever I went upstate to my summer home, I watched RTV on 10.3 WTEN-DT Albany, and I never noticed any problems as far as audio or video, so I'm surprised to hear of all the problems here, that is if you are lucky to even get a signal.


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19256019
> 
> 
> It was RTV's fault. That's why WSAH dropped them, because it made them (WSAH) look bad to people like you.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Actually it was not RTV's fault. It was WSAH or FIOS, because FIOS users in CT reported that WSAH OTA was fine. The connection to Verizon was the problem. WSAH was paying for RTV, and I think they cheaped out.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19256019
> 
> 
> It was RTV's fault. That's why WSAH dropped them, because it made them (WSAH) look bad to people like you.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hi Trip. I have to agree with Greg2600. When RTV was on WSAH, though most of the time I wasn't viewing it OTA but on Dishnet, I rarely if ever saw any problems with either the video or the audio. I would tend to believe in the case of WKOB, it is their problem and not RTV's.

*42-1 (02) WKOB Daystar

42-2 WKOB-LP SD2 Daystar

42-3 WKOB-LP SD3 RTV

42-4 WKOB-LP SD4*


When you tune to 42-1 WKOB Daystar or 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2 Daystar at least 50% of the time or more you see a blue circular image with the words "No Signal!" below it, (as it was about 30 minutes ago.) Sometimes this goes on for days at a time. Also, 42-2 WKOB-LP SD2 Daystar has the same video strobing and glitches which 42-3 WKOB-LP SD3 RTV has. If ever there was a service that deserves to be yanked off-air by the FCC, WKOB is it!!!

* RTV first launched on WKOB Sept. 9th *. If all of you check out the RTV Facebook page, (click logo), you'll see many folks are receiving RTV, (many more cannot), and complaining about these issues going on 19 days now. I have the * Winegard VHF/UHF 7084P *, a very large antenna, but I don't believe one this large is needed to receive WKOB, (of course this depends on your distance and elevation from the transmission site.)

 


Trip, perhaps you can explain why when I manually DVR RTV, (there is no PSIP info for each program, just says RTV in blocks), the video strobing and glitches disappears for the most part when playing back the event, but recently the audio is now 2 seconds behind the video.


The current * RTV NY Schedule * unless WKOB doesn't opt out of their new Saturday morning programming like WVUE in New Orleans has.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it was not RTV's fault. It was WSAH or FIOS, because FIOS users in CT reported that WSAH OTA was fine. The connection to Verizon was the problem. WSAH was paying for RTV, and I think they cheaped out.



fios just became available in ct in past couple of weeks so I don't see how users in ct complained when rtv was on wsah. in any event wsah has always been low quality infomercial garbage that no one will ever watch regardless of how good or bad it looks.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tld* /forum/post/19253498
> 
> 
> I'm in central NJ. Tonight I've totally lost 7.1, 11.1, and 13.1. I'm getting less than 20% signal on all of them all of a sudden. Others like 2.1, 4.1 and 5.1 are coming in strong as ever.
> 
> 
> Whatever it is must have happened very recently as a show recorded off 7.1 at 4:00 on my MythTV system this afternoon no problem.
> 
> 
> Is there anything going on that anyone's aware of that might be causing this??
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom



Channel 7 is as strong as ever in the 90's. Channel 11 if fair in the low 60's but keeps dropping in the 50's. Don't get me started on channel 13. It has the most sucktastic reception ever. Last couple of weeks I got it good but no now I want to watch the Baseball special in HD but instead I just get a black screen with a low signal strength. Or I get a downconverted SD centercut picture on Dish. Just take it off the air because there reception just sucks. Now I will hear but I get it in the 90's well good for you.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19258296
> 
> 
> Hi Trip. I have to agree with Greg2600. When RTV was on WSAH, though most of the time I wasn't viewing it OTA but on Dishnet, I rarely if ever saw any problems with either the video or the audio. I would tend to believe in the case of WKOB, it is their problem and not RTV's.



Let's just say that I heard some stories.


And yes, RTV has cleaned up its act since then and yes, I'd blame the local affiliate.



> Quote:
> Trip, perhaps you can explain why when I manually DVR RTV, (there is no PSIP info for each program, just says RTV in blocks), the video strobing and glitches disappears for the most part when playing back the event, but recently the audio is now 2 seconds behind the video.



I have no idea.










- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19259783
> 
> 
> Let's just say that I heard some stories.
> 
> 
> And yes, RTV has cleaned up its act since then and yes, I'd blame the local affiliate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



I think Trip was right, it was retrotv fault, harshing back Retrotv made bad decisions first off they should find prime outlets, as for their programming, is respectable. Wsah complicated the matters by beaming only 4 hours of prime time programming if that was not enough, their interest was strictly monetary. without any care for tv audience. fcc should take away their license to broadcast. their only interest is showing informercials, which still reigns at wsah, imo wsah wasted a good opportunity to show something wotthwhile, come on wsah get it together or leave


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19259783
> 
> 
> Let's just say that I heard some stories.
> 
> 
> And yes, RTV has cleaned up its act since then and yes, I'd blame the local affiliate.
> 
> 
> - Trip





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19260100
> 
> 
> I think Trip was right, it was retrotv fault, harshing back Retrotv made bad decisions first off they should find prime outlets, as for their programming, is respectable. Wsah complicated the matters by beaming only 4 hours of prime time programming if that was not enough their interest was strictly monetary gain. their intersted mostly in showing informercials, which still reigns at wsah, imo wsah iits a wasted an opportunity to be viable product.



I trust in the Trip. Now that I think about it nyc, I caught the tail end of RTV on WSAH, perhaps by then the problems had been ironed out.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19259783
> 
> 
> I have no idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



You mean there's something I asked you about that you actually don't know??


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19260476
> 
> 
> You mean there's something I asked you about that you actually don't know??



I'm not all-knowing! I've never claimed to be!










- Trip


----------



## LenL

I might be talking with someone I know who hardly watches TV and yet pays Cablevision lots of bucks for TV.


My question for you folks. I may have to reccomend an antenna for her. I would recommend the one I have which is the CM4228 as she is in the same town (But she probably has a better LOS to the ESB even though she is about 2 miles west of me). However Channel Master has change this antenna. So is this still the one I should recommend or is there something better?


I would build her a Gray-Hoverman which I would if I had the time. The one I put up is doing as well as the CM4228.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19260549
> 
> 
> I'm not all-knowing! I've never claimed to be!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Then, NO PIZZA FOR YOU!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19254358
> 
> 
> Most of us can't get this Low power Station. No real programing except now RTV. which is not working well at the moment. B7W and sound issues. Plus WPIX might get Antenna TV that Tribune (parent Co) Is coming out Jan 3rd.
> 
> 
> That will blow RTV out of the water.
> 
> 
> Of Course it is always nice to have an extra channel. RTV made a bad choice in WKOB. imo



antenna tv and rtv will have programming that appeals to the same demographic but with the tiny,possibly immeasurable ratings i doubt 1 can blow the other out the water. both will be lucky to get any cable carriage which is where they will see any ratings or money.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19255992
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, WNYW/WWOR waste their sub channels on each other for coverage holes. RTV won't be allowed on any PBS sub, so they don't have many choices.



the "waste" from wnyw/wwor is going away very soon


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19262989
> 
> 
> the "waste" from wnyw/wwor is going away very soon



Will they add any other programming or just add bandwidth to the main station?


----------



## SnellKrell

I, also had thought the way in which Fox used its sub-channels in the NY DMA was a waste.


That was until the recent problem with 44 OTA when the station went dark.


38's feed of 44 was there and helped - albeit in SD. It did make sense then!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19260549
> 
> 
> I'm not all-knowing! I've never claimed to be!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well, I can't tell you how much I've learned from you and others here and I'm very grateful Trip. It's kinda like computers. Every time you learn something you realize there's so much more to learn.


Btw, here's a picture of WKOB's transmission facility.




















> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19262989
> 
> 
> the "waste" from wnyw/wwor is going away very soon



Glad to hear this, of my 7 OTA receivers, whether running an auto channel scan or a manual add of RF38, 3 of them only map out 5-2, no 9-1!!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19265436
> 
> 
> Well, I can't tell you how much I've learned from you and others here and I'm very grateful Trip. It's kinda like computers. Every time you learn something you realize there's so much more to learn.



Glad to help.










- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19266128
> 
> 
> Glad to help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip!!


More funny comments from RTV Facebook.

*Paul Lawrence* _WKOB NYC - it back up and broadcasting in color







! audio however is out of sync bigtime. So close...._ 18 hours ago

*Giacomo Siffredi* _Perhaps you tuned in during one of the local ad inserts, Paul. The network feed remains unchanged with the distorted video and audio glitches that have existed since its debut on WKOB-LD. All I can say is that if I owned a TV station and had this crew of engineers who are supposedly "working on the issues", they would be joining the growing ranks of the unemployed. It's hard to believe this problem should take so long to correct. It has been three weeks now. Nonetheless, I will be happy if and when it ever gets fixed._ 9 hours ago


----------



## raj2001

Well it could have been worse, like these guys:

http://www.caller.com/news/2010/sep/...ted-to-return/


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19269063
> 
> 
> Well it could have been worse, like these guys:
> 
> http://www.caller.com/news/2010/sep/...ted-to-return/



Considering this is an NBC affiliate, that's pretty shabby, not that NBC has much of a primetime line-up.


----------



## Greg2600

Are RTV paying WKOB to have them on?


Also, glad to hear that we could see sub-channel content on WNYW/WWOR other than each other's SD feed.


----------



## yobiworld

Wasa finally showing programing a miracle


----------



## DeadFormatLover




----------



## yobiworld

IAVC icn YAY


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19269704
> 
> 
> Wasa finally showing programing a miracle



What's on?


----------



## Trip in VA

Looks like IAVC and ICN on 64-2 and 64-3. Is 64-1 still showing Infomercials or have they changed that too?


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19270815
> 
> 
> Looks like IAVC and ICN on 64-2 and 64-3. Is 64-1 still showing Infomercials or have they changed that too?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Still infomercials.


----------



## yobiworld

They seem to be showing Chinese commercials. Dont know when they plan on airing this stuff but im glad. Just hope they dont show this for rest of the year

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASA-LD


----------



## AloEuro

' Recently I sent one of my DVHS decks in for repair to the JVC Cypress, CA. repair facility. I just noticed they did a rescan on the built-in OTA tuner. This is what it shows.

2-1 KCBS '

Is that is OTA in California, they just show off, rightfully so


----------



## yobiworld

Does anyone know when they gonna start showing some programming. They been repeating the same mess since yesterday??


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19271032
> 
> 
> They seem to be showing Chinese commercials. Dont know when they plan on airing this stuff but im glad. Just hope they dont show this for rest of the year
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASA-LD



I have completely lost WASA. RF25 reverts to NYC 25-1 & 25-2 on all 7 of my OTA receivers. Anyone have an idea why? I'm not going to do a rescan because I have too many fringe signals memorized which I don't want to lose, and this is what happens when I do a manual add. I really don't care if I ever receive WASA anyway. Just curious why this has occurred.


Anyone notice what the Wikipedia WASA link says ...

*History*

_This station began in 2003 as W64CW and later changed to WASA-LP in 2005. WASA airs infomercial programing 24 hours a day. The station was planned to air Estrella TV in September 2008 but it was picked up instead by a subchannel of WPIX._ _*WASA signal usually goes off air every few minutes and then turns back on.*_


Many of us have wrote about this. Why would any business spend money to advertise their infomercials on a channel that shuts it's signal off and on???



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19252886
> 
> 
> Recently I sent one of my DVHS decks in for repair to the JVC Cypress, CA. repair facility. I just noticed they did a rescan on the built-in OTA tuner. This is what it shows.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19273377
> 
> 
> 2-1 KCBS. Is that is OTA in California, they just show off, rightfully so



Yes, it is Los Angeles, CA. You think this is rightfully so? Why?


This morning I got up early and went outside to sit on my terrace. The storm hit here at exactly 5:52AM. I can't say I've ever seen heavier rain in my lifetime. Then, (hoping I wouldn't lose power which I didn't), I checked how the wind and rain affected my OTA reception. Well, only 2 channels were not affected. ABC and WPIX, even WNET popped occasionally. Everything else was unwatchable. This is the failure of digital television. In the analog days, this never would have happened.


----------



## mikepier

I'm getting WASA on 25.1 and 25.2 also( in addition to WNYE 25.1 and 25.2), even after a re-scan, so I don't know whats going on.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19261006
> 
> 
> I might be talking with someone I know who hardly watches TV and yet pays Cablevision lots of bucks for TV.
> 
> 
> My question for you folks. I may have to reccomend an antenna for her. I would recommend the one I have which is the CM4228 as she is in the same town (But she probably has a better LOS to the ESB even though she is about 2 miles west of me). However Channel Master has change this antenna. So is this still the one I should recommend or is there something better?
> 
> 
> I would build her a Gray-Hoverman which I would if I had the time. The one I put up is doing as well as the CM4228.



How far from the ESB? She'd need a VHF antenna as well, mind you which makes the combo log periodic/corner reflector-yagi antennas better to use, especially since she is LoS like you said.


----------



## raj2001

Google street view has WFME:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.78...255056(WFME-TV )


I've passed by that place a few times.


----------



## yobiworld

Dying for wasa to show some damn programming. That Chinese stuff looks interesting


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19276745
> 
> 
> I'm getting WASA on 25.1 and 25.2 also( in addition to WNYE 25.1 and 25.2), even after a re-scan, so I don't know whats going on.



Thanks Mike. Interesting, two 25-1 and 25-2's. I figured it was pathetic WASA all screwed up.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19265436
> 
> 
> Btw, here's a picture of WKOB's transmission facility.



Really? I thought they had moved to Trump world tower.


----------



## nycdigital09

what a dump!! i predict wkob won't be around too much longer


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19279195
> 
> 
> Really? I thought they had moved to Trump world tower.



It was a joke Ryan. I searched the internet for a picture of a rundown facility and that was the best I could come up with. If you look at the naming of the url, it's from the hartfordradiohistory.com website. I was just venting my anger for WKOB's RTV problems getting close to a month now. Yeah, their engineers are working hard on it, NOT!!!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19281544
> 
> 
> what a dump!! i predict wkob won't be around too much longer



That wouldn't be a surprise nyc.


----------



## keyboard21

So My aunt tells me about 25.3 new station. I then read what you guys wrote. So it is just Chinese commercials? Bloomberg rented that space for this? Guess the City needs money.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19282310
> 
> 
> So My aunt tells me about 25.3 new station. I then read what you guys wrote. So it is just Chinese commercials? Bloomberg rented that space for this? Guess the City needs money.



I believe what your Aunt is seeing is WASA 64-3 remapping incorrectly to 25-3. Wait'll WNYE gets word of this.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19282460
> 
> 
> I believe what your Aunt is seeing is WASA 64-3 remapping incorrectly to 25-3. Wait'll WNYE gets word of this.



I don't know if WNYE will really care anyway. WNJJ-LD has been on 41-1 along with univision WXTV. Different frequencies, same virtual channel.


One of my converter boxes ignores WNJJ.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19282549
> 
> 
> I don't know if WNYE will really care anyway. WNJJ-LD has been on 41-1 along with univision WXTV. Different frequencies, same virtual channel.
> 
> 
> One of my converter boxes ignores WNJJ.



Perhaps you're right.


As do all my converter boxes now ignore WASA.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19282460
> 
> 
> I believe what your Aunt is seeing is WASA 64-3 remapping incorrectly to 25-3. Wait'll WNYE gets word of this.



Maybe she was very clear it was 25.3 She told me she likes 25.1 with Leon Shonie? Then 25.2 is traffic camera. Then this 25.3 that is Chinese.


Anyone else getting this on 25.3?


----------



## raj2001

Yes, mine now says 25 not 64


----------



## nycdigital09

It was a joke Ryan. posted by deadformatlover


i bet in high school you sat in back of classroom makin wisecrack remarks, and causing havok right, a regular class clown lol


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19282609
> 
> 
> Maybe she was very clear it was 25.3 She told me she likes 25.1 with Leon Shonie? Then 25.2 is traffic camera. Then this 25.3 that is Chinese.
> 
> 
> Anyone else getting this on 25.3?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19282688
> 
> 
> Yes, mine now says 25 not 64



And *yobiworld* and then *Trip* confirmed otherwise.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19270815
> 
> 
> Looks like IAVC and ICN on 64-2 and 64-3. Is 64-1 still showing Infomercials or have they changed that too?
> 
> 
> - Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19282702
> 
> 
> It was a joke Ryan. posted by deadformatlover
> 
> 
> i bet in high school you sat in back of classroom makin wisecrack remarks, and causing havok right, a regular class clown lol



Haa!! No actually I just screwed up very quietly.


----------



## raj2001

Ummm what did Trip confirm? I'm watching it here on my PC. It says 25. Trip's all the way in VA.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19282718
> 
> 
> Ummm what did Trip confirm? I'm watching it here on my PC. It says 25. Trip's all the way in VA.



I don't see a WNYE 25-3 here. Wait until a station ID and see what it says at 5:30pm.


----------



## raj2001

25-3 is WASA.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yeah, looks like something changed and it is now duplicate mapping to 25-x. I'm tempted to fire an e-mail off to the FCC about both WNJJ and WASA.


- Trip


----------



## yobiworld

how do u accidentally end up on another channeL. Wasa has got to be the most retarded channel ever created.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19282780
> 
> 
> 25-3 is WASA.



Thanks Ryan.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19282848
> 
> 
> Yeah, looks like something changed and it is now duplicate mapping to 25-x. I'm tempted to fire an e-mail off to the FCC about both WNJJ and WASA.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hope you do Trip. I would think WNYE (NYC) would be infuriated by this. I never doubted for a moment WASA's problems continue. Next to WKOB, they are the second worst operation in the NY Metro area. I'm still curious why I cannot get any duplication on any of my OTA receivers?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19282981
> 
> 
> Wasa has got to be the most retarded channel ever created.



Ha ha ha.


----------



## AloEuro

Ch. 64-2,3 goes back where they have started -on ch.25. Go to 25, punch in 25-3 you get WASA or ICN and on 25-3 ADD SCAn then you get 25-1Wasa, 25-2,2 the ICN of 64-2.3


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19282718
> 
> 
> Trip's all the way in VA.



Indeed. If only my name was "Trip in VA" then it might be more obvious.










But yeah, when I first heard about it, it was still on 64-x, must have been moved to 25-x shortly after that.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19282997
> 
> 
> Hope you do Trip. I would think WNYE (NYC) would be infuriated by this. I never doubted for a moment WASA's problems continue. Next to WKOB, they are the second worst operation in the NY Metro area. I'm still curious why I cannot get any duplication on any of my OTA receivers?



I haven't e-mailed the FCC yet, I'm trying someone else first. If that turns up nothing, then I'll e-mail the FCC.


Some receivers won't display duplicate mapped channels like that.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19286222
> 
> 
> Indeed. If only my name was "Trip in VA" then it might be more obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, when I first heard about it, it was still on 64-x, must have been moved to 25-x shortly after that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't e-mailed the FCC yet, I'm trying someone else first. If that turns up nothing, then I'll e-mail the FCC.
> 
> 
> Some receivers won't display duplicate mapped channels like that.
> 
> 
> - Trip



lots of luck trip, fcc is only interested in doing anything if they gonna receive more of obamas money or can give a nice hefty fine $$$$


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19282740
> 
> 
> I don't see a WNYE 25-3 here. Wait until a station ID and see what it says at 5:30pm.



theres 2 ch 25 the remapping is screwey you don't have any issues or don't get wasa or nye.?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19286222
> 
> 
> But yeah, when I first heard about it, it was still on 64-x, must have been moved to 25-x shortly after that.
> 
> 
> I haven't e-mailed the FCC yet, I'm trying someone else first. If that turns up nothing, then I'll e-mail the FCC.
> 
> 
> Some receivers won't display duplicate mapped channels like that.
> 
> - Trip



Trip, on my end, it never remapped to 64. My 4 JVC DT100 tuners can display virtual channel duplicates, but in this case it hadn't until this morning and not the way it normally does. (For example it does with 3-1 (03) WMBQ-LD / 3-1 (26) KYW, 17.1 (17) WEBR-SD / 17-1 WPHL, 20-1 (20) W20CQ-D / 20-1 (20) WCCT and 41-1 (40) WXTV UNI / 41-1 (41) WNJJ.) Here's what I did. First I went to 64-1 or 64-2, (no 64-3). I see a powerful signal but a blank screen. Then I engaged the manual channel ad feature where RF25 shows 25-1 as does RF24. Disengaged channel ad feature and see 64-1, went one channel up and see WNYE 25-2, go back one channel and see WNYE 25-1. 64-1 cannot be retrieved unless I repeat the process. The Dishnet VIP722 will not allow virtual channel duplicates though I'm sure if I deleted WNYE then WASA would display. I won't do that nor will I run a channel scan on either. I won't even attempt tuning in WASA on either of my Samsung SIR-T165's because unstable signals have been known to damage these converters.


I wouldn't be surprised if on some converters that cannot duplicate virtual channels, WASA has wiped out WNYE.


Btw Trip, can you please show me the link for VA. OTA on this forum or whichever one is closest to you that you post in?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19287215
> 
> 
> lots of luck trip, fcc is only interested in doing anything if they gonna receive more of obamas money or can give a nice hefty fine $$$$



I'm wondering if they can issue fines for things like this. I know they ordered WACX in the Orlando market to change mapping not too long ago, but I don't think there was a fine involved.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19287252
> 
> 
> Btw Trip, can you please show me the link for VA. OTA on this forum or whichever one is closest to you that you post in?



When I'm at school, I'm in the Charlottesville market: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post19287163 


When I'm at home, I'm in the Roanoke market: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post19205836 











And in rereading my post, I hope I didn't come across as rude with my statement about being in VA. I wasn't intending it to sound that way, if it did.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19287617
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if they can issue fines for things like this. I know they ordered WACX in the Orlando market to change mapping not too long ago, but I don't think there was a fine involved.
> 
> 
> When I'm at school, I'm in the Charlottesville market: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post19287163
> 
> 
> When I'm at home, I'm in the Roanoke market: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post19205836
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And in rereading my post, I hope I didn't come across as rude with my statement about being in VA. I wasn't intending it to sound that way, if it did.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I assume you don't believe this was intentional on WASA'a part but rather ineptitude?


I posed this question many pages back but no one ever answered it. Aside from remapping issues like this one, are there any other mandatory requirements issued by the FCC that stations must abide by, like for instance, WKOB's RTV issues?


Thanks for the links Trip, and no I didn't interpret any rudeness, but rather thought your comment was funny.


I just got a phone number for WNYE engineering. I'll be calling them tomorrow.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19287846
> 
> 
> I assume you don't believe this was intentional on WASA'a part but rather ineptitude?



I wouldn't even say "ineptitude" so much as "accidental." Last month, three different LPTV stations across the country were reported as mapping to 3-x for a few days each. What had happened? All three were using the same brand of PSIP gear and all three got reset or took a power hit or something and came back up mapped to the default value of 3-x, and if they didn't have tuners that cared very strongly about PSIP, it was easy enough to miss barring complaints.


WASA's equipment may default to the physical channel number for its mapping instead.



> Quote:
> I posed this question many pages back but no one ever answered it. Aside from remapping issues like this one, are there any other mandatory requirements issued by the FCC that stations must abide by, like for instance, WKOB's RTV issues?



I'm not really sure. The FCC's requirement is that a single SD or better sub (MPEG 2 video + AC3 audio) must exist. There could be more standards than that, but I don't know for certain.



> Quote:
> I just got a phone number for WNYE engineering. I'll be calling them tomorrow.



Cool, I'd be curious to hear what they say.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19287891
> 
> 
> I wouldn't even say "ineptitude" so much as "accidental." Last month, three different LPTV stations across the country were reported as mapping to 3-x for a few days each. What had happened? All three were using the same brand of PSIP gear and all three got reset or took a power hit or something and came back up mapped to the default value of 3-x, and if they didn't have tuners that cared very strongly about PSIP, it was easy enough to miss barring complaints.
> 
> 
> WASA's equipment may default to the physical channel number for its mapping instead.
> 
> 
> I'm not really sure. The FCC's requirement is that a single SD or better sub (MPEG 2 video + AC3 audio) must exist. There could be more standards than that, but I don't know for certain.
> 
> 
> Cool, I'd be curious to hear what they say.
> 
> 
> - Trip



You're too kind Trip. Between the blasting audio on 64-1 and what the WASA Wikipedia link says, I believe it's ineptitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASA-LD 

*History*

_This station began in 2003 as W64CW and later changed to WASA-LP in 2005. WASA airs infomercial programing 24 hours a day. The station was planned to air Estrella TV in September 2008 but it was picked up instead by a subchannel of WPIX._ _*WASA signal usually goes off air every few minutes and then turns back on.*_


Hey, I'm on a streak here, that's now two things you didn't know for sure.










Might take awhile to reach someone at WNYE as I remember years ago it took a week or more.


----------



## LenL

What major network still broadcasts a primetime show in standard defintion? It is the only show in primetime on a major network that is not in HD.


Answer: CBS


Yes CBS is still not showing the Amazing Race in HD. You would think that given a choice between 60 Minutes in HD or a program that takes you around the world to beautiful locations that it would be a no brainer! Then again I have to think they have no brains at CBS. Even the local PBS station who have almost zero money put their travel shows in HD. Wait I have an idea. Maybe CBS could borrow the HD cameras from the PBS stations for a small donation!


I think I will make that suggestion! I will try to contact CBS to complain.


By the way. With respect to OTA reception ....out where I am it has been excellent the past few days and for the most part since May throught the summer. I can't wait for the leaves to come down and the colder weather to see what happens. Reception was spotty last winter.


----------



## raj2001

TAR has to use local camera crews in many places (due to local labor and immigration laws) who may not have the facilities or know how for HD. That is why it is still in SD.


----------



## LenL

That would make sense if that were true for all the other shows on TV that go all over the world. All the PBS shows and all the shows on cable that travel the globe including food shows, travel shows etc are in HD are they not? What local laws are they skirting?


Also I have seen HD cameras and they are not much different from regular (SD) cameras as far as how to point and shoot. If you can operate one you can operate the other. You focus and push a button. If low paid cameramen on PBS can do it then anyone can. This is not rocket science in my humble opinion.


It does not add up.


----------



## raj2001

Well, whatever it is, Bertram Van Munster has said that he really doesn't see the need for HD anytime soon.


Of course the ceo of our company said the same thing many years ago... So much for that.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19287846
> 
> 
> I just got a phone number for WNYE engineering. I'll be calling them tomorrow.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19287891
> 
> 
> Cool, I'd be curious to hear what they say.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well Trip, I left a detailed message about WASA for Mr. Kim at WNYE today. As expected, no one ever seems to pick up the phone there as I tried 3 times before doing so. It was the same thing back in the days when they were a PBS affiliate and broadcasted in HD. Hope he returns my call but I kinda doubt he will. As of today, if I go directly to 25-1 it goes to WASA and overrides WNYE 25-1. If I advance one channel up, then I see WNYE 25-1 and 25-2, but no WASA 25-2 or 25-3.


Btw, I noticed in the *Harrisonburg / Charlottesville, VA - HDTV* thread there's a woman poster, *janiegirl*. Would be nice to see a woman here.


----------



## yobiworld

Who cares what channel Wasa is on when are they gonna start showing some damn programing??


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19292699
> 
> 
> Well Trip, I left a detailed message about WASA for Mr. Kim at WNYE today. As expected, no one ever seems to pick up the phone there as I tried 3 times before doing so. It was the same thing back in the days when they were a PBS affiliate and broadcasted in HD. Hope he returns my call but I kinda doubt he will. As of today, if I go directly to 25-1 it goes to WASA and overrides WNYE 25-1. If I advance one channel up, then I see WNYE 25-1 and 25-2, but no WASA 25-2 or 25-3.



You know?


I was just wondering why I haven't been able to pick up WNYE for over a month, now.












Danny


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daniel Perales* /forum/post/19292822
> 
> 
> You know?
> 
> 
> I was just wondering why I haven't been able to pick up WNYE for over a month, now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Danny



Looks like my speculation turned out to be correct Dan. I would also leave a message for Mr. Kim at 718-250-5851. When I left mine I stated I wouldn't be surprised if WASA is preventing some folks from even receiving WNYE. The more people who call, the faster he'll address this.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

The latest from RTV Facebook ...

*Bryan B-love Washington* _Rtv has frozed on wkob 42.3 hope the engineers are fixing working on._ it 2 hours ago

*Giacomo Siffredi* _Any updates about if/when the poor quality signal issues at WKOB-LD New York will be corrected?_ 17 hours ago


How pathetic. No one at WKOB is working on the problems.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19298494
> 
> 
> The latest from RTV Facebook ...
> 
> *Bryan B-love Washington* _Rtv has frozed on wkob 42.3 hope the engineers are fixing working on._ it 2 hours ago
> 
> *Giacomo Siffredi* _Any updates about if/when the poor quality signal issues at WKOB-LD New York will be corrected?_ 17 hours ago
> 
> 
> How pathetic. No one at WKOB is working on the problems.



Well she has no computer. Never used one. Yes, I tried.


No WKOB, Not her fault. Just a bad station. We are waiting for Antenna TV. I bet it will be similar programing. Plus 99.9% of us get WPIX. I just hope WPIX put the channel in the line up.


Hey trip any news on that front?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19298555
> 
> 
> Hey trip any news on that front?



My calendar does not yet read January 2011.










- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19299008
> 
> 
> My calendar does not yet read January 2011.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



You must of fired off an e-mail to ask them by now


----------



## Trip in VA

I don't know anybody at WPIX to ask.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19299632
> 
> 
> I don't know anybody at WPIX to ask.
> 
> 
> - Trip



When has that stopped you?


----------



## dvdchance

We must give a bit of credit, RTV on WKOB seems as stable today as it has since they started carrying it. Still sound only from the surrounds though, so they are working in little tiny baby steps.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19301801
> 
> 
> We must give a bit of credit, RTV on WKOB seems as stable today as it has since they started carrying it. Still sound only from the surrounds though, so they are working in little tiny baby steps.



Guaranteed it's just by accident. Video still strobing and blacking out intermittently, color programming still in B&W as are national commercials, vertical stripe color bars will most likely return as the day wears on. The only since that's disappeared since Monday is the rear surround audio not lagging 2 seconds behind the video, which will probably start again as it had last week.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19301801
> 
> 
> We must give a bit of credit, RTV on WKOB seems as stable today as it has since they started carrying it. Still sound only from the surrounds though, so they are working in little tiny baby steps.



Can't wait for network backed Antenna TV. People will stop talking about RTV. They went cheap with WKOB and now is paying the price.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19303708
> 
> 
> Can't wait for network backed Antenna TV. People will stop talking about RTV. They went cheap with WKOB and now is paying the price.



Not excited at all. Thus far the proposed programming for * Antenna TV * looks like a great big bore. They won't have the rights to RTV shows because they have them locked up. In addition, I won't even watch it if it looks like *thisTV* VHS quality bandwidth.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19303891
> 
> 
> Not excited at all. Thus far the proposed programming for * Antenna TV * looks like a great big bore. They won't have the rights to RTV shows because they have them locked up. In addition, I won't even watch it if it looks like *thisTV* VHS quality bandwidth.



Well now I will sound single minded. I agree that THISTV picture quality is really bad. On the other hand we have a CRT TV and not a LCD HD. Therefore we do not see the quality as bad as you


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19304314
> 
> 
> Well now I will sound single minded. I agree that THISTV picture quality is really bad. On the other hand we have a CRT TV and not a LCD HD. Therefore we do not see the quality as bad as you



I have Sony's first "Not True HD" 36" CRT upstairs, and you're right, *thisTV* looks decent until there's motion. Downstairs I have a true HD 36" Sony CRT, and it looks horrible. I can't imagine how incredibly bad it looks on a really large screen state of the art Plasma, LCD or LED.


I'm waiting until next year to purchase either a top of the line 3D monitor or * Sony's Google TV *.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19304478
> 
> 
> I have Sony's first "Not True HD" 36" CRT upstairs, and you're right, *thisTV* looks decent until there's motion. Downstairs I have a true HD 36" Sony CRT, and it looks horrible. I can't imagine how incredibly bad it looks on a really large screen state of the art Plasma, LCD or LED.
> 
> 
> I'm waiting until next year to purchase either a top of the line 3D monitor or * Sony's Google TV *.



What is the difference between Sony's google tv and the Current Internet LCD tv with APPS?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19304496
> 
> 
> What is the difference between Sony's google tv and the Current Internet LCD tv with APPS?



No Google TV.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19304650
> 
> 
> No Google TV.



What is the difference? Can you answer?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19305000
> 
> 
> What is the difference? Can you answer?



Did you watch the videos on the Sony link I provided? Unlike the current monitors which offer a host of apps., Google TV allows you to surf the internet. In other words the internet becomes another channel on your home entertainment system, and as well provides it's own programming.


This is a concept which WebTv really first introduced many years ago though in very crude way.


On another note, since Tuesday night I've been receiving CBS rock solid and FOX has literally disappeared. Anyone seeing any change with FOX?


Calling Trip ...

*10-4!!!*


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19305264
> 
> 
> Did you watch the videos on the Sony link I provided? Unlike the current monitors which offer a host of apps., Google TV allows you to surf the internet. In other words the internet becomes another channel on your home entertainment system, and as well provides it's own programming.
> 
> 
> This is a concept which WebTv really first introduced many years ago though in very crude way.
> 
> 
> On another note, since Tuesday night I've been receiving CBS rock solid and FOX has literally disappeared. Anyone seeing any change with FOX?
> 
> 
> Calling Trip ...
> 
> *10-4!!!*



No I somehow missed the link. How can you surf on a tv with no keyboard?


I will look at link now. When is this coming out?


----------



## Greg2600

I haven't tried ThisTV on my HD TV, have FIOS on that. But on my 24" widescreen HD PC LCD, it looks horrendous. On the 27" CRT, it looks fine, except as DFL said, the video is choppy, breaks up, and has pixelation galore. At times it's difficult to watch.


As for Google TV, the main advantage is the addition of the Chrome browser, with Flash built in. That means you are, as someone said, actually surfing the internet. So you "should" be able to access practically any video on the internet. Websites like ABC.com, Hulu, Netflix, which may not have been available on your particular brand of device, now should be. I'm really not sure if any site could block a GoogleTV device from accessing? I'm waiting for a Google/Sony BluRay player myself, although I really want one that has Hard disk storage.


keyboard, you worry about about surfing? Well, on FIOS, they have a hideous application that can watch YouTube via your PC, and other files on your PC. Basically you have to navigate using the directional arrows on your remote, and search using numerical keypad, telephone style! It's a pain. I see no reason though that a GoogleTV device couldn't use a USB mouse/keyboard.


----------



## AloEuro

25-2,3 ICN- 704x 480i 30 HZ Must be showing Chinese calendar giving year 2057

The programming prewievs showing on 25-2,3 ICN-Information Culture News, really should be Chinese Info-News, all the serials are produced in mainland, there are no Hong Kong/Macau actors except in the movies. The movie they will show

Warlords - 1860 uprising with Jet Li.

Ip Man 1 and 2 -some of the best martial arts films ever by teacher of Bruce Lee.

Red Cliff part I and II - epic war saga, most expensive fim ever made in Chine, worthy.

All these movies you may borrow for wk -no fee- from BPL, make request/holds, enjoy


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19307179
> 
> 
> 25-2,3 ICN- 704x 480i 30 HZ Must be showing Chinese calendar giving year 2057
> 
> The programming prewievs showing on 25-2,3 ICN-Information Culture News, really should be Chinese Info-News, all the serials are produced in mainland, there are no Hong Kong/Macau actors except in the movies. The movie they will show
> 
> Warlords - 1860 uprising with Jet Li.
> 
> Ip Man 1 and 2 -some of the best martial arts films ever by teacher of Bruce Lee.
> 
> Red Cliff part I and II - epic war saga, most expensive fim ever made in Chine, worthy.
> 
> All these movies you may borrow for wk -no fee- from BPL, make request/holds, enjoy



I've read and re-read your message a few times and I'm not understanding what your saying.


----------



## AloEuro

" Yes, it is Los Angeles, CA. You think this is rightfully so? Why? "


On LA-OTA able to get almost 90 ch., even if 30-40 subs would show informercials, you may have maybe 20-30 Quality plus 20-30 mediocre programs, now only wish to have the time.

in NYC on OTA you get 36-40 ch. and be happy, in provincial city like LA you get almost 90 opportunities.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19307397
> 
> 
> I've read and re-read your message a few times and I'm not understanding what your saying.



25-2,3 ICN prewievs shows serials, watching the faces I do not see any Hong Kong based actors, it means it was made in China.

They show movie clips from IP Man the first -1- events from 1935 to 38 Japan occupation AND from IpMan the second -2- before 1935, prequel, it is about real person from period of 1930' in (Fa Hong?) named Ip who, after the war had martial art studio in HK, apparently B.Lee visited, eventually become teacher of Bruce Lee, high quality martial art movie, recommended.

Red Cliff part 1 and 2 under 5 hrs long,( must go,) with Tony Leung also some Japan/ HKong actors, war-love-epic movie, more expensive than 'Curse of golden flower', worthy to watch,( they show poster in prewies showing face of the Japanese actor) film from 1-2nd century.

the Warlods goes to 1860' rebellion against the Q-dynasty


all movies are in BRooklyn Public Library, for free


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19307428
> 
> 
> " Yes, it is Los Angeles, CA. You think this is rightfully so? Why? "
> 
> 
> On LA-OTA able to get almost 90 ch., even if 30-40 subs would show informercials, you may have maybe 20-30 Quality plus 20-30 mediocre programs, now only wish to have the time.
> 
> in NYC on OTA you get 36-40 ch. and be happy, in provincial city like LA you get almost 90 opportunities.



More like 34 sub-channels that look worse than *thisTV* VHS quality. Thank goodness they don't do this in NY.


----------



## reddice

I would like to know what exact tv and fm stations broadcast off of 4 times square building? Would be good if the weaker stations like wnet and wpxn moved there. I get wnye good with no breakups.


----------



## -Sandro-

How's the situation there for ABC/LiveWell bitrates?


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19262989
> 
> 
> the "waste" from wnyw/wwor is going away very soon



I just happened to check, and 5-2 is now SD of FOX 5-1, while 9-2 is SD of My 9-1, so they're no longer simulcasting each other's feed. Hopefully they start showing something new soon.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19315203
> 
> 
> I just happened to check, and 5-2 is now SD of FOX 5-1, while 9-2 is SD of My 9-1, so they're no longer simulcasting each other's feed. Hopefully they start showing something new soon.



Thats been the case for quite a while now. Since early summer at least.


----------



## reddice

There should be no subs for 5 & 9. Subs are just a waste that make the main channel pq worse.


----------



## Trip in VA

Fox splicer.


- Trip


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19307179
> 
> 
> 25-2,3 ICN- 704x 480i 30 HZ Must be showing Chinese calendar giving year 2057
> 
> The programming prewievs showing on 25-2,3 ICN-Information Culture News, really should be Chinese Info-News, all the serials are produced in mainland, there are no Hong Kong/Macau actors except in the movies. The movie they will show
> 
> Warlords - 1860 uprising with Jet Li.
> 
> Ip Man 1 and 2 -some of the best martial arts films ever by teacher of Bruce Lee.
> 
> Red Cliff part I and II - epic war saga, most expensive fim ever made in Chine, worthy.
> 
> All these movies you may borrow for wk -no fee- from BPL, make request/holds, enjoy




I understood since i watch Asian movies. Damn shore hope they start showing these films This week or sometime this month


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19315203
> 
> 
> I just happened to check, and 5-2 is now SD of FOX 5-1, while 9-2 is SD of My 9-1, so they're no longer simulcasting each other's feed. Hopefully they start showing something new soon.



im hearing it will be mobile or data service not any tv channels


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19313958
> 
> 
> I would like to know what exact tv and fm stations broadcast off of 4 times square building? Would be good if the weaker stations like wnet and wpxn moved there. I get wnye good with no breakups.



You're getting WNYE?


Since when? I haven't been getting it for over a month.





Danny


----------



## DeadFormatLover

It appears all the video problems on WKOB have finally been fixed, however, the audio is still in the surround channels only, out of synch a millisecond ahead of the video, and extremely loud.


By engaging Straight Digital Dolby on your A/V receiver, you can force the audio to the front speakers.

*RTV NY Schedule PDF*


----------



## NYC10033

I have a Zenith DT901. Last weekend I noticed that the time displayed is wrong. It's one hour behind. If it's 5PM, the Zenith shows 4PM. This is the case for most channels, not for (from my memory) 25.x and one or two others. My box is set the AUTO Daylight Savings time.


Anyone see this too?


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19325781
> 
> 
> It appears all the video problems on WKOB have finally been fixed, however, the audio is still in the surround channels only, out of synch a millisecond ahead of the video, and extremely loud.



Except nobody outside of WKOB's neighborhood can get the channel.


----------



## FrankH3rd

Same problem with both my Zenith converters since this past weekend. Maybe they shift back to standard time in China second Sunday in October and this is hardwired into the Zenith???


----------



## LenL

As far as I know all of these devices get the time from PSIP or TVGOS suppliers. It could be hard coded but I doubt it. I suspect it was passed to your box and the box picked it up. It just happened to grab it from some station that is not updating the time correctly due to poor maintenance or lack there of.


----------



## NYC10033

More about the wrong time being transmitted in the data stream.


I have found the following.


Channels 9 and 31 have the correct time.


Channels 2,4,5,7,11,13,25,50 have the wrong time. They are one hour back.


I assume, rather EXPECT, that my selecting AUTO for daylight saving time would have the converter box reading the time from the data stream. If the data in the data stream is wrong (I believe it is), then the time displayed will be wrong.


Why would major network broadcasters like 2,4,5,7 have the wrong time?


Any one here with a professional broadcasting background who can shed light on this problem?


Do other NON-Zenith boxes have the same problem?


I saw the same problem last time, about 1 or 2 weeks before the time shift.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19325781
> 
> 
> It appears all the video problems on WKOB have finally been fixed, however, the audio is still in the surround channels only, out of synch a millisecond ahead of the video, and extremely loud.
> 
> 
> By engaging Straight Digital Dolby on your A/V receiver, you can force the audio to the front speakers.
> 
> *RTV NY Schedule PDF*





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19327409
> 
> 
> Except nobody outside of WKOB's neighborhood can get the channel.



Not at all. Indoor only antenna, of course, but with a moderate V/U or V roof antenna with amp, decent line of sight, comes in consistently with and 81-85 signal strength and have never experienced the electrical interference known to afflict RF channel 2, and far far better here than the ESB UHF disaster for CBS, NBC, FOX, WWOR, WPXN and others.


Looks like someone is paying attention to what is posted here. Today the blasting audio level is back to normal and almost in synch with video. Only single problem that remains is surround channel only audio.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033* /forum/post/19326729
> 
> 
> I have a Zenith DT901. Last weekend I noticed that the time displayed is wrong. It's one hour behind. If it's 5PM, the Zenith shows 4PM. This is the case for most channels, not for (from my memory) 25.x and one or two others. My box is set the AUTO Daylight Savings time.
> 
> 
> Anyone see this too?



All 3 of my brand OTA receivers, (Dishnet VIP722, Samsung SIR-T165 and JVC HM-DT100U) displaying correct times on all channels.


----------



## LenL

My PAL box displays the correct time.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Well, I spoke too soon. In less than 48 hours the RTV video freezing & strobing problems have returned.


On another note, *LATV has been added to the WKOB family on 42-4*, and there are no problems at all with it's transmission. This has me wondering if the issues with RTV have originated from RTV all this time.


----------



## Aero 1

so, im late to the party here so excuse the question. i just dumped fios and went OTA, antenna on the roof, pointed at 142 deg like tv fool tells me ( http://goo.gl/Tuhl ) and get great reception on all 3 tivos on the national uhf channels (86 - 99 signal) and about good on the two important hi vhf channels pix and abc (about 65 - 70 signal).


now reading thorough this thread, i am excited for Antenna TV to come and i noticed RTV from you guys (its interesting to me). the channel guide from tivo sees it in my area (not from the antenna, but from tribune), but i get no signal at all.


i live about 20 miles away from NYC with good LOS as you can see. are all the problems you guys are talking about RTV is that its just that underpowered that I wouldn't see it anyway?


ps. cutting the cord was the best thing i ever did.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Hello *Aero 1*, I envy you getting just about everything without issues. In regards to RTV on WKOB, do you have an amp and a rotor, (a must)? Also, you didn't say 20 miles from where? If it's Jersey, someone posted there's a transmitter there too. WKOB is very low power however I'm about 14 aerial miles east of Manhattan, and getting it solid all the time, whereas I'm sure you read previously I have many multi-path issues with the other UHF signals.


My complex was wired for Fios a couple of weeks ago, but I elected to stay with Cablevision only because Verizon Fios does not offer Firewire outputs from their Motorola DVR. What didn't you like about Fios? I couldn't survive with OTA only.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19336601
> 
> 
> Hello *Aero 1*, I envy you getting just about everything without issues. In regards to RTV on WKOB, do you have an amp and a rotor, (a must)? Also, you didn't say 20 miles from where? If it's Jersey, someone posted there's a transmitter there too. WKOB is very low power however I'm about 14 aerial miles east of Manhattan, and getting it solid all the time, whereas I'm sure you read previously I have many multi-path issues with the other UHF signals.
> 
> 
> My complex was wired for Fios a couple of weeks ago, but I elected to stay with Cablevision only because Verizon Fios does not offer Firewire outputs from their Motorola DVR. What didn't you like about Fios? I couldn't survive with OTA only.



Thanks. I am in Totowa NJ, about 20 miles from west of NYC. Hmm, i wonder where that jersey transmitter is but according to tv fool, its at the same azimuth as everything else (this is my tvfool http://goo.gl/Tuhl ).


I just started this project so when i was buying my equipment and researching, i bought a wineguard ap 8275 pre amp just in case so i tested it with and without. Since my location and install on the roof resulted in great signal i really didnt need it. So i installed the preamp anyway, followed the directions but nothing worked. no channels worked, i took it off, and everything went back to normal. so i have it here in a box thinking of returning it. dont know if its broken or since my signal is so good that it overloads, but following the simple directions wouldnt make it work. so i just gave up on trying to use it.


As for the rotor, i dont need it, all the channels are mostly at the same azimuth, the important channels anyway. from the tvfool, my DB4 antenna picks everything up (except RTV and one of the 43 PBS stations).


As for Fios, the wife and I really only mostly watch the nationals so it was an easy choice and always DVR'd, nothing live. my 3 tivos i used for Fios are great ota receivers so it wasnt a hard switch. The few Cable shows we watch, are automatically torrented and pushed to a folder on all 3 tivos so there is no viewing shock there. the program pytivo/streambaby does this and its a great tool for tivo. for sports, im doing espn3 and a slingbox at the old mans house. I ripped my dvd's into itunes and use apple tv's to watch old shows and movies...oh, streambaby also sees my itunes library and publishes it as structured folders on the tivo's with full metadata and pictures. and of course, netflix for movies.


a couple of years ago, i used firewire on fios hd receiver and it worked, i never had a fios dvr so i cant comment on that. oh, the other reason is that Fios just started adding CCI flag on their new Hd channel this week, the HUB. there is a lot of complaints on the tivo community forum about this and the rumor has been that fios is going to start CCI flagging cablecard users, which will make multiple tivos useless for MRV.


sorry for the long post, but even though i can afford it, i see no reason to pay $100 for something that the government guarantees us (OTA anyway).


here is my antenna setup if anyone is interested:


----------



## Trip in VA

That antenna has no chance of receiving WKOB-LD 2. You need some type of VHF component, particularly low-VHF for WKOB-LD, while the antenna you have is UHF-only.


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19337290
> 
> 
> That antenna has no chance of receiving WKOB-LD 2. You need some type of VHF component, particularly low-VHF for WKOB-LD, while the antenna you have is UHF-only.
> 
> 
> - Trip



ahh, i thought of that, but since i received a few vhf stations, i just figured. thanks for the info, i just started this project last week and I just learned something new.


Tripp, any recommendations on a low vhf add on?


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Whoa!! Looks like you've got all your bases covered and judging by the photo, excellent OTA location. I'm no expert by any means but it sounds like something is wrong with that amp, no way it should wipe out everything when installed. I would imagine that a rotor would probably get you twice as many channels as you have now with that location!! Ok, after reading what Trip wrote, now I understand why you're only getting ABC & WPIX at about a 65-70 signal strength, there's no way you'll ever get WKOB without a VHF antenna, (and probably a working amp too), unless Trip knows where they are transmitting from in Jersey. Oh yeah, thanks for the feedback about Fios. I could have sworn I read on this forum that folks in other states had DVR's with firewire. Oh well, Cablevision does though they continue not to carry about 6 great HD services that Fios has.


----------



## Trip in VA

An antenna like the Antennacraft CS600 will both give you a good chance to receive WKOB-LD as well as improve reception on 7, 11, and 13. Someone else may have another recommendation.


You can use it in combination with your current antenna through use of a UVSJ.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19336601
> 
> 
> Hello *Aero 1*, I envy you getting just about everything without issues. In regards to RTV on WKOB, do you have an amp and a rotor, (a must)? Also, you didn't say 20 miles from where? If it's Jersey, someone posted there's a transmitter there too. WKOB is very low power however I'm about 14 aerial miles east of Manhattan, and getting it solid all the time, whereas I'm sure you read previously I have many multi-path issues with the other UHF signals.
> 
> 
> My complex was wired for Fios a couple of weeks ago, but I elected to stay with Cablevision only because Verizon Fios does not offer Firewire outputs from their Motorola DVR. What didn't you like about Fios? I couldn't survive with OTA only.



What does firewire do for you that is so important?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19338357
> 
> 
> What does firewire do for you that is so important?



It's the only way to record digital programming either from OTA or Cable to DVHS.


----------



## Greg2600

WKOB's quality and programming is not worth spending money on an antenna. It is they who should be making improvements to reach us.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19338489
> 
> 
> WKOB's quality and programming is not worth spending money on an antenna. It is they who should be making improvements to reach us.



i am starting to realize that now that i know the difference in lo and hi vhf and from what trip said about i can boost ABC and WPIX with a vhf antenna, I bought a ClearStream5 to boost the important channels. This nor'eastern hovering over NNJ/NYC right now is screwing with the PIX signal, so I might as well boost the important channels.


so now here is a silly question, will this hi vhf antenna at least possibly boost any lo vhf signals? or is that the reason they sell lo vhf antennas?


----------



## AloEuro

As " DeadFormatLover " has said LATV is on 42-4 good, solid signal, it seems to be better than before, if you like to watch Spanish Silicon girls, have fun.

704x480i 30Hz


----------



## AloEuro

' All these movies you may borrow for wk -no fee- from BPL, make request/holds, enjoy '

" I've read and re-read your message a few times and I'm not understanding what your saying."

BPL - Brooklyn Public Library, you may rent/borrow 10 DVD for 1 week,without charge -no fee,

if the DVD are not on shelf in your local library, make request to have it delivered from other library to pick up library, Place hold on your Library Card account in any BPL library, when they get it they let you know.

if they do not have it yet, the new releases, you may make request for additional 10 DVD or VHS or CD, this is called Hold, example - you want IronMan2,make request,your position may be 352 of 352, with 100 more behind you 352 of 452, but when they get almost 150 copies, in 3-4 weeks you may get it

This is what you wanted to know, right?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/19339483
> 
> 
> i am starting to realize that now that i know the difference in lo and hi vhf and from what trip said about i can boost ABC and WPIX with a vhf antenna, I bought a ClearStream5 to boost the important channels. This nor'eastern hovering over NNJ/NYC right now is screwing with the PIX signal, so I might as well boost the important channels.
> 
> 
> so now here is a silly question, will this hi vhf antenna at least possibly boost any lo vhf signals? or is that the reason they sell lo vhf antennas?



sorry c5 is not designed for low vfh ch 2-6, but you might get lucky, i have 91xg a uhf only antenna but it works on retrotv. btw i'm 5 miles from esb.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19338413
> 
> 
> It's the only way to record digital programming either from OTA or Cable to DVHS.



Does that go to a VHS recorder? Didn't know they had firewire?


what device do you use to record?


----------



## mikepier

Last night at midnight, FOX pulled their programming from Cablevision.

I'm glad I have my OTA antenna. I'm sure the electronic stores will be busy today as people go out and buy OTA antennas for the NLCS tonight and the NFL tomorrow.


----------



## Johnr0836

I have a problem with WNYW and WWOR reception on my Sony 36xbr2 set. If I scan all HD stations I receive WNYW on 5.1 in HD and WWOR on 9.2 in SD. If I input channel 38.1 I then get WWOR on 9.1 in HD and WNYW on 5.2 in SD. But I lose 5.1 and 9.2. If I then input 44.1 I get 5.1 and 9.2 back but lose 9.1 and 5.2. Is this a problem that Sony. I think the issue of HD SD transmission by WNYW and WWOR was discussed awhile ago but I didn't see anyone else with this issue. This wouldn't be too bad except every time the set detects a "new" station it resets all the stations to active so if I channel surf the turner stops at every station in it memory.


----------



## dvdchance

It only took, what 6 weeks, but RTV WKOB 42.3 finally has proper picture and sound. Actually getting centre and front channel sound.


----------



## lman12




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19344075
> 
> 
> Last night at midnight, FOX pulled their programming from Cablevision.
> 
> I'm glad I have my OTA antenna. I'm sure the electronic stores will be busy today as people go out and buy OTA antennas for the NLCS tonight and the NFL tomorrow.



Or change providers. I have Directv and an outdoor OTA antenna. This sort of idiocy rears its ugly head far too often where the content provider and the local cable company clash concerning fees for programming. With Directv and an outdoor antenna as a backup, I never worry about the cable company vs. content providers soap operas.


----------



## reddice

As I said before I would really like to know what tv & fm stations currently broadcast off of 4ts. If anyone knows please.


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...quare+%28NY%29 


So, TV-wise, only WNYE and WASA-LD.

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProFacLook...=Within+Search 


FM-wise, only WNYE 91.5 and an on-channel booster for WFMU 91.1.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

By the way, SiliconDust shows WASA-LD back on 64-1. Did they fix the mapping problem?


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover

*keyboard21* please see DVHS link at * post#12899 *. Devices used to record DVHS ...

1. Scientific Atlanta HD4250 (Cablevision)

2. Samsung SIR-T165 (OTA)

3. Built-in OTA receiver in JVC HM-DT100U.

*mikepier* Here's a Message From Cablevision I received at 3:04AM this morning via e-mail.
_

We regret to inform you that News Corp, in an act of corporate greed, has pulled Fox 5 and My9 from your Cablevision channel lineup. This is an unfortunate attempt to extort unreasonable and unfair fee increases from Cablevision and our customers.


News Corp is demanding more for Fox 5 than we pay for every other broadcast channel. In fact, they want more for Fox 5 than we pay CBS, NBC, ABC and Univision combined and are asking for more than $150 million a year. That's an $80 million increase for the exact same programming! In these tough economic times, an increase of these vast proportions is irresponsible and unfair.


We have made numerous fair and reasonable proposals to News Corp and they have refused every one. And now, News Corp has pulled the plug on Fox 5 AND My9. This was News Corp's decision, not ours. We want to keep these channels on the air while we negotiate a fair agreement.


As a result of News Corp's refusal to negotiate, Cablevision is willing to accept binding arbitration to resolve this matter fairly. We are confident that an independent third party will agree that what we are offering to pay News Corp is fair. We call on News Corp to accept binding arbitration, and return Fox 5 and My9 to the air until an agreement is reached.


We apologize for the inconvenience caused by News Corp's actions, and we ask for your help. Call 1-877-NO-TV-TAX (1-877-668-8829) or visit www.cablevision.com/fox and tell News Corp to put Fox 5 and My9 back on the air, and to keep you out of the negotiations.


Thank you for your patience, your patronage and your support._

*Johnr0836* I have a similar problem in that on some of my OTA receivers if I go to RF38 only 5-2 will map out, no 9-1.

*dvdchance* You must have some miracle receiver. Yes the audio is now corrected, but the video continues to strobe and freeze on all my receivers.

*lman12* Ditto. Have Dishnet & unreliable FOX OTA.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19345453
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...quare+%28NY%29
> 
> 
> So, TV-wise, only WNYE and WASA-LD.
> 
> http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProFacLook...=Within+Search
> 
> 
> FM-wise, only WNYE 91.5 and an on-channel booster for WFMU 91.1.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip, any idea what the AMSL is between the 4TS and ESB transmitters? WNYE & WASA comes in here at a 100 signal strength and as you know I have nothing but problems with so many of the UHF stations coming off the ESB.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19345505
> 
> 
> By the way, SiliconDust shows WASA-LD back on 64-1. Did they fix the mapping problem?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Most definitely not. Btw, never got the courtesy of a return call for 2 messages I left for WNYE's Mr. Kim 718-250-5851 / 212-669-7400.


----------



## raj2001

WASA is a bag of issues.


Not only does the virtual channel now say 25 but apparently they bought this transmitter (or encoder or whatever else) used and forgot to change some of the info from the old owners, specifically the TSID.


TSID: 111 (0x006f) NTSC: 07 ATSC: 56 AL MOUNT CHEAHA


If anyone is interested, the WASA transmitter apparently used to carry WCIQ in Alabama on channel 56.


Sorry I've been absent but the past week has been busy to say the least. Wife went in to the hospital last thursday and gave birth to triplets. Two girls and a boy. I've been back and forth between the NICU and my normal life but everyone is doing well!


Suffice to say I'll be busy for the next 30 years or so.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19345453
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...quare+%28NY%29
> 
> 
> So, TV-wise, only WNYE and WASA-LD.



Doesn't WABC have a backup facility there too?


----------



## reddice

Does 89.9 WKCR broadcast off 4TS or ESB? I ask because even radio & tv is stronger on 4TS.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19347153
> 
> 
> Doesn't WABC have a backup facility there too?



Yes, but it's not on the air now. I took that to be the meaning of reddice's question.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19347201
> 
> 
> Does 89.9 WKCR broadcast off 4TS or ESB? I ask because even radio & tv is stronger on 4TS.



I checked and it looks like WKCR is also on 4TS. It hasn't been granted a license yet, thus why I overlooked it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19347138
> 
> 
> Not only does the virtual channel now say 25 but apparently they bought this transmitter (or encoder or whatever else) used and forgot to change some of the info from the old owners, specifically the TSID.
> 
> 
> TSID: 111 (0x006f) NTSC: 07 ATSC: 56 AL MOUNT CHEAHA
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested, the WASA transmitter apparently used to carry WCIQ in Alabama on channel 56.



More likely is that someone just put in a random TSID and happened to type in 111. The Alabama PBS stations are all identical and fed off the WBIQ feed, so I doubt that any encoding gear (which is where the TSID would originate) came from there.


- Trip


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19344075
> 
> 
> Last night at midnight, FOX pulled their programming from Cablevision.
> 
> I'm glad I have my OTA antenna. I'm sure the electronic stores will be busy today as people go out and buy OTA antennas for the NLCS tonight and the NFL tomorrow.



For those with cable TV service, it's always good to have an OTA antenna as a backup since cable companies and broadcasters will continue to pull stunts like this. Remember Cablevision and WABC earlier this year? Service was finally restored during the Oscar telecast. From Poughkeepsie, I was getting Fox 5 over the air until a storm damaged our rooftop antennas (huge tree branch broke the boom on both UHF and VHF antennas), so I need a backup for my backup (we have Cablevision service here). Indoor antennas just don't cut it in fringe areas. The out of market Fox alternative (WXXA Fox 23 from Albany) is broadcasting on VHF, so my little Terk HDTVa indoor antenna (which picks up some of the Albany UHF stations) wouldn't receive that Fox station either.


Since Fox restored Internet videos to Cablevision customers, it's streaming video online for me.


----------



## Trip in VA

raj2001:


I'm definitely correct about none of the gear coming from WCIQ. Observe my capture of WASA-LD from December, which shows the correct TSID. http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...167320-0_0.htm 


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19347138
> 
> 
> Sorry I've been absent but the past week has been busy to say the least. Wife went in to the hospital last thursday and gave birth to triplets. Two girls and a boy. I've been back and forth between the NICU and my normal life but everyone is doing well!
> 
> 
> Suffice to say I'll be busy for the next 30 years or so.



Wow, congrats Ryan!! Guess we won't be hearing much from you anymore, ha ha!!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19347138
> 
> 
> WASA is a bag of issues.
> 
> 
> Not only does the virtual channel now say 25 but apparently they bought this transmitter (or encoder or whatever else) used and forgot to change some of the info from the old owners, specifically the TSID.
> 
> 
> TSID: 111 (0x006f) NTSC: 07 ATSC: 56 AL MOUNT CHEAHA
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested, the WASA transmitter apparently used to carry WCIQ in Alabama on channel 56.
> 
> 
> Sorry I've been absent but the past week has been busy to say the least. Wife went in to the hospital last thursday and gave birth to triplets. Two girls and a boy. I've been back and forth between the NICU and my normal life but everyone is doing well!
> 
> 
> Suffice to say I'll be busy for the next 30 years or so.



won't be long till you get them to be a ham radio ah ryan yeah congrats dude


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19347768
> 
> 
> raj2001:
> 
> 
> I'm definitely correct about none of the gear coming from WCIQ. Observe my capture of WASA-LD from December, which shows the correct TSID. http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap...167320-0_0.htm
> 
> 
> - Trip



OK cool. I don't know much about the TSReader stuff but when I saw that it looked a bit odd. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## reddice

That is what I am saying. 4TS has got plenty of room as the ESB is overcrowded. It would make sense to move some of the digital tv stations there. I know it is not as tall but it does have the room until 1WTC is completed in 2013.


----------



## reddice

Also I am peaking WNYW in the 90s at nearly the signal strength of WABC. Have they boosted there power since WNYW is on its own combiner.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19351091
> 
> 
> Also I am peaking WNYW in the 90s at nearly the signal strength of WABC. Have they boosted there power since WNYW is on its own combiner.



I think fox is rubbing it in on cv sub huh


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19351031
> 
> 
> That is what I am saying. 4TS has got plenty of room as the ESB is overcrowded. It would make sense to move some of the digital tv stations there. I know it is not as tall but it does have the room until 1WTC is completed in 2013.



What makes you think that broadcasters will be moving to 1 WTC?


What do you know that no one else knows?


----------



## LenL

I guess your expertise extends beyond building super antennas for OTA reception! Now there will be little ones you can share your expertise with! I agree with Deadformat that changing diapers and midnight feedings etc will keep you away from us (wink, wink) but I know your passion for OTA will not stop you completely!


BY the way can you tell us in between diaper changes for your triplets how reception has been out your way lately? So far my reception has been very good. I'm holding my breath for changes when the leaves come down and the weather gets colder.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19351091
> 
> 
> Also I am peaking WNYW in the 90s at nearly the signal strength of WABC. Have they boosted there power since WNYW is on its own combiner.



No.


Their FCC filing to boost power is for next year. I think they fixed a few things after the outage the other day though. I don't know for sure but that's what it seems like.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19351673
> 
> 
> I guess your expertise extends beyond building super antennas for OTA reception! Now there will be little ones you can share your expertise with! I agree with Deadformat that changing diapers and midnight feedings etc will keep you away from us (wink, wink) but I know your passion for OTA will not stop you completely!
> 
> 
> BY the way can you tell us in between diaper changes for your triplets how reception has been out your way lately? So far my reception has been very good. I'm holding my breath for changes when the leaves come down and the weather gets colder.



THanks for the well wishes.










I've not noticed much of a change in reception except for seasonal stuff with the leaves falling but that hasn't been a big bump since my antenna is high up already. I'll run a scan sometime this week.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19351539
> 
> 
> What makes you think that broadcasters will be moving to 1 WTC?
> 
> 
> What do you know that no one else knows?



Well, I don't think that another tall building will be ignored.


But I do agree that it is unlikely that some will move due to the expense and the fact that ESB works for now.


So the situation is "nobody knows."


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19348958
> 
> 
> won't be long till you get them to be a ham radio ah ryan yeah congrats dude



Thanks man!


----------



## SnellKrell

The broadcasters have already informed the building's owners that the rental pricing is out of line and discontinued talks.


I doubt that this was just negotiating.


Extensive work is and will be done on the ESB. There's still a lot of unused hardware up there - analog antennas to be removed. This is includes at the very top of the Antenna Mast the old 4/5 Combined antenna. There's still some good real estate available.


Stations will only consider a huge expenditure in moving to a different facility if the financial models for Mobile prove attractive.


Money continues to be very tight. The bump in ad revenue they've recently experienced is due to political advertising which will be gone after next month's elections.


In my opinion, I see the ESB remaining the market's main transmission point.


----------



## AloEuro

" We regret to inform you that News Corp, in an act of corporate greed, has pulled Fox 5 and My9 from your Cablevision channel lineup. This is an unfortunate attempt to extort unreasonable and unfair fee increases from Cablevision and our customers. "

It is easier to put speck to eyes of others and keeping your own, what Fox did is good news for OTA only users, it increases the importance of OTA.

I have never ever had paid TV, cable or satellite, strictly OTA man, paid TV is manipulative and forces you to adjust your daily routine to Cable/Satelite schedule, modern days slaves,ha,ha,ha


----------



## reddice

Also Dish may drop WNYW & WWOR. This is after they already dropped FX & NGEO. Also we lost Fuse & I still don't have the Disney HD channels that were also dropped in June. I wish I can get FiOS but Verizon must not care about downtown Brooklyn.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19351871
> 
> 
> Well, I don't think that another tall building will be ignored.
> 
> 
> But I do agree that it is unlikely that some will move due to the expense *and the fact that ESB works for now*.
> 
> 
> So the situation is "nobody knows."



Not so Ryan, perhaps for you and others here it does, however as confirmed by CBS, there is a large dead pocket for tens of thousands of homes within the Towns Of North Hempstead Long Island, and this is not just CBS, but many others aside from WNYW, including WNBC, WWOR and WPXN.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19351911
> 
> 
> The broadcasters have already informed the building's owners that the rental pricing is out of line and discontinued talks.
> 
> 
> I doubt that this was just negotiating.
> 
> 
> Extensive work is and will be done on the ESB. There's still a lot of unused hardware up there - analog antennas to be removed. This is includes at the very top of the Antenna Mast the old 4/5 Combined antenna. There's still some good real estate available.
> 
> 
> Stations will only consider a huge expenditure in moving to a different facility if the financial models for Mobile prove attractive.
> 
> 
> Money continues to be very tight. The bump in ad revenue they've recently experienced is due to political advertising which will be gone after next month's elections.
> 
> 
> In my opinion, I see the ESB remaining the market's main transmission point.



So WASA and WNYE can afford the move but the major networks say the cost is too high? That doesn't make sense. I dearly hope you are wrong, and from what I have heard about the owners of the ESB not being easy to deal with I think you'll see otherwise in the coming years.


Will this "extensive work" take another 9 years?


I asked Trip this question on Saturday, can anyone answer it please?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19345659
> 
> 
> Trip, any idea what the AMSL is between the 4TS and ESB transmitters?


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19315203
> 
> 
> I just happened to check, and 5-2 is now SD of FOX 5-1, while 9-2 is SD of My 9-1, so they're no longer simulcasting each other's feed. Hopefully they start showing something new soon.



Newbie here, so please pardon me if I am confused. Is it possible that these two channels are still simulcasting each other? I say that because my tuner indicates that channels 5.1 and 9.2 both are on RF channel 44 and that channels 5.2 and 9.1 are both on RF channel 38. To me, it looks like they just jiggered the mapping identifying the channels.


Thanks for any insight you can provide.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19301801
> 
> 
> We must give a bit of credit, RTV on WKOB seems as stable today as it has since they started carrying it. Still sound only from the surrounds though, so they are working in little tiny baby steps.



The audio and video quality appear much improved on 42.3 -- the problem now is that all 4 channels went missing. I assume that someone must be working on things there...


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19356261
> 
> 
> So WASA and WNYE can afford the move but the major networks say the cost is too high? That doesn't make sense.



WASA-LD didn't move from Empire, it was a new build there.


WNYE, similarly, did not move from ESB. Their digital never operated from ESB, though the analog did. The digital started out on a building in Brooklyn before moving to 4TS.


As much money as the other stations have spent on ESB, I doubt they're about to spend more money relocating to a building that's 300 feet shorter.



> Quote:
> I asked Trip this question on Saturday, can anyone answer it please?



I didn't know it was directed at me.


Not sure about AMSL, but according to Wikipedia, AGL they are:


4TS: 1143 feet.

ESB: 1454 feet.


- Trip


----------



## NervousCat

Since the Cablevision-Fox dispute is dragging on there is more talk about cord cutting.

http://www.fierceiptv.com/story/fox-...azy/2010-10-19


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/19362113
> 
> 
> The audio and video quality appear much improved on 42.3 -- the problem now is that all 4 channels went missing. I assume that someone must be working on things there...



I was watching until Night Gallery ended at 1 am. Nothing has been fixed. The video is still freeze-framing 24/7, and the repaired audio to the front speakers is now again out of synch with the video. Just pathetic. Again, for whatever reason, if DVR'ed, all is well.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19362177
> 
> 
> WASA-LD didn't move from Empire, it was a new build there.
> 
> 
> WNYE, similarly, did not move from ESB. Their digital never operated from ESB, though the analog did. The digital started out on a building in Brooklyn before moving to 4TS.
> 
> 
> As much money as the other stations have spent on ESB, I doubt they're about to spend more money relocating to a building that's 300 feet shorter.



Yes, I was aware about this in regards to WNYE, not WASA. Interesting that these two signals now transmitting on RF25 are broadcasting powerful signals from the same location. Must be eliminating WNYE for many folks, and nothing is being done about it. Have you contacted the FCC as you mentioned that you might?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19362177
> 
> 
> I didn't know it was directed at me.
> 
> 
> Not sure about AMSL, but according to Wikipedia, AGL they are:
> 
> 
> 4TS: 1143 feet.
> 
> ESB: 1454 feet.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip. There must be some structure blocking me and many others from the ESB along the Towns Of North Hempstead Long Island. I confirmed with 2 other folks a bit further out on L.I. that cannot receive either CBS or NBC, (and others.) But as the weather gets cooler reception is improving for me on both, unless it rains, and/or the wind picks up.


4TS is located on Broadway between 42nd & 43rd Street, ESB at Fifth Avenue and West 34th Street. Was wondering if 4TS location is at a higher elevation than ESB somewhat compensating for that 300 ft. difference.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Was wondering if 4TS location is at a higher elevation than ESB somewhat compensating for that 300 ft. difference."


That would be one nice hill - 300 feet over 8 blocks!


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19364292
> 
> 
> "Was wondering if 4TS location is at a higher elevation than ESB somewhat compensating for that 300 ft. difference."
> 
> 
> That would be one nice hill - 300 feet over 8 blocks!



Has any station ever considered broadcasting from on top of some of the taller buildings in Washington Heights? My understanding is that the highest point in Manhattan is on top of a private university's building located in the Heights (due to the fact that Washington Heights is so much higher up than Midtown, not that the building itself is anywhere nearly as tall as the ESB).


----------



## SnellKrell

The taller buildings you speak of in Washington Heights are part of New York - Presbyterian Hospital's Columbia Presbyterian campus.


I doubt that the hospital personnel would want such concentrated amounts of radiation above their heads. Could never understand WFUV (FM radio station) transmitting from

the Montefiore Medical Center in The Bronx.


Some claim that the highest point in New York City is located in Washington Heights. The location is actually what is now called Hudson Heights at Pinehurst Avenue and

183rd Street - 265 feet Above Sea Level.


The true highest point is Todt Hill on Staten Island - 409.8 feet Above Sea Level.


There are higher and better places for transmission than the two places above. One of which is in West Organge, NJ, the Richland Tower facility.


The great hopes for Single Frequency/Distributed Transmission System have been nothing more than great hopes. WNJU tried it and fortunately, is now transmitting from ESB.


I really think it's going to be ESB for many years to come!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19364805
> 
> 
> I really think it's going to be ESB for many years to come!



Which is why I do not recommend OTA to anyone living out here. I was going to write a piece for our local newspaper and I decided against it.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19364260
> 
> 
> Yes, I was aware about this in regards to WNYE, not WASA. *Interesting that these two signals now transmitting on RF25* are broadcasting powerful signals from the same location. Must be eliminating WNYE for many folks, and nothing is being done about it. Have you contacted the FCC as you mentioned that you might?



WNYE broadcasts on RF24.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19364260
> 
> 
> Have you contacted the FCC as you mentioned that you might?



I contacted someone who I figured might know something, who in turn gave me an e-mail address for someone at Liberman. I'm going to give the person at Liberman another day or two (conveniently when the weekend hits and I won't be buried under homework. Isn't that convenient?







) before I write an e-mail to the FCC.



> Quote:
> Thanks Trip. There must be some structure blocking me and many others from the ESB along the Towns Of North Hempstead Long Island.



I'd be really interested to drag my analyzer to your place and have a look next time I'm in the area, I'm just really nervous about carrying my analyzer into or through New York City.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19364805
> 
> 
> The great hopes for Single Frequency/Distributed Transmission System have been nothing more than great hopes. WNJU tried it and fortunately, is now transmitting from ESB. I really think it's going to be ESB for many years to come!



Not just WNJU. The Metropolitan TV Alliance, representing NYC TV stations, got 30+ millions earmark from our taxes to add DTS in order to improve ESB's service. After spending 10 millions dollar and several years, that effort folded as well.

The simple reason is that SFN/DTS cannot work with a single carrier modulation when nearly equal strong and weak dynamic (fading)signals from two or more Txs overlap.


Most of the rest of the world uses multicarrier (COFDM) modulation. That makes DTS/SFN feasible.


----------



## nycdigital09

I'd be really interested to drag my analyzer to your place and have a look next time I'm in the area, I'm just really nervous about carrying my analyzer into or through New York City.


- Trip

__________________

KJ4IEA


you're kidding right, nyc is safe city as any urban jungle, besides you look one of natives that inhabit the jungle.







jk trip


----------



## Trip in VA

Bear in mind that I lived most of my life in the middle of nowhere.







80 miles from most of my local TV stations' transmitters.


- Trip


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19366059
> 
> 
> WNYE broadcasts on RF24.



Yes I know ST, I should have said both are remapping to virtual channel 25.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19366170
> 
> 
> I contacted someone who I figured might know something, who in turn gave me an e-mail address for someone at Liberman. I'm going to give the person at Liberman another day or two (conveniently when the weekend hits and I won't be buried under homework. Isn't that convenient?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) before I write an e-mail to the FCC.



Nice! My gut feeling is you'll get the same response from WASA which I got from WNYE, nada.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19366170
> 
> 
> I'd be really interested to drag my analyzer to your place and have a look next time I'm in the area, I'm just really nervous about carrying my analyzer into or through New York City.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That would be awesome Trip!!! Also, you don't have to go * through NYC * to get to Great Neck, L.I.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19369510
> 
> 
> Nice! My gut feeling is you'll get the same response from WASA which I got from WNYE, nada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be awesome Trip!!! Also, you don't have to go * through NYC * to get to Great Neck, L.I.



There is No Great PIZZA in Great Neck!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19370117
> 
> 
> There is No Great PIZZA in Great Neck!



If you say so Mozzarella-Head


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19372166
> 
> 
> If you say so Mozzarella-Head



Yep!. Shame too


----------



## AloEuro

Years ago when Fox, then independent station, wanted to become network, making multi billion $$$ acquisition of NFL- bouncing CBS out, Fox also needed affiliates and Cable providers, Fox was not in position to make demands so Cablevision and the likes have got sweet deals for dimes and nickels, but the production costs of each of NFL game goes to millions, production cost of CableVision is in what - couple100G ?

Now Fox is network, its production costs increasing and Cablevision still pays nickels and dimes, I think Fox does right thing to demand fairness, to have Cable co. to share in costs of production of the shows in sport or whatever is on TV market parasitical cable companies would like to have.


----------



## AloEuro

' thursday gave birth to triplets. Two girls and a boy. ' Congratulation to you and to your other half, may God bless you and your children and give them good health


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19373579
> 
> 
> Years ago when Fox, then independent station, wanted to become network, making multi billion $$$ acquisition of NFL- bouncing CBS out, Fox also needed affiliates and Cable providers, Fox was not in position to make demands so Cablevision and the likes have got sweet deals for dimes and nickels, but the production costs of each of NFL game goes to millions, production cost of CableVision is in what - couple100G ?
> 
> Now Fox is network, its production costs increasing and Cablevision still pays nickels and dimes, I think Fox does right thing to demand fairness, to have Cable co. to share in costs of production of the shows in sport or whatever is on TV market parasitical cable companies would like to have.



Not quite, concerning Fox as a network!


1986 - The network was founded. Although, for legal and regulatory reasons, Murdoch didn't call it a network.


1993 - Obtained the NFC (NFL)contract that for years had been with CBS.


----------



## DeadFormatLover









News Corp,







Cablevision,







Dishnet (if it happens there), and







TWC, Verizon and Directv too just because.


I'll do just fine if I never see FOX & My9 ever again, even if I didn't have OTA!!


----------



## nycdigital09

deadformatlover careful big brother is watchin i had my account suspended twice one more time i'm history here.


----------



## dvdchance

Seems that LATV has taken over the top spot on the Ch. 42 lineup. Daystar is now only on 42.2, with RTV still on .3; and the ever popular test pattern coming up the rear on .4.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19377161
> 
> 
> deadformatlover careful big brother is watchin i had my account suspended twice one more time i'm history here.



Really nyc? I didn't know this. Should I delete that post?


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19378583
> 
> 
> Seems that LATV has taken over the top spot on the Ch. 42 lineup. Daystar is now only on 42.2, with RTV still on .3; and the ever popular test pattern coming up the rear on .4.



I noticed that. In addition, as of 5:30 pm yesterday (Dragnet) all technical issues with RTV have finally been fixed, and are holding since!!!


----------



## Aero 1

Anyone else having problems with NBC? I'm getting no signal on 4, this happened ten other morning but I figured it was due to the bad weather that day. All my other channels are pulling in 90+ signal.


----------



## SnellKrell

You're right - nada!


----------



## nycdigital09

Really nyc? I didn't know this. Should I delete that post?


to put it bluntly whoever moderates this forum is not liberal inclined, they omit or edit out what they think they is politically correct, i've emailed whoever is moderating they simply ignore me. bunch of babies.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19379319
> 
> 
> You're right - nada!



I'm glad that it's not just me. I hope they fix it before SNL. Yes I still enjoy SNL, even though this cast blows.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just heard, on good authority, 28's ESB facility is down. The station is using its backup from West Orange, NJ.


Things should be back working from ESB within the hour!


----------



## SnellKrell




nycdigital09 said:


> Really nyc? I didn't know this. Should I delete that post?
> 
> 
> to put it bluntly whoever moderates this forum is not liberal inclined, they omit or edit out what they think they is politically correct, i've emailed whoever is moderating they simply ignore me. bunch of babies.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Don't you mean politically INCORRECT?


----------



## SnellKrell

28 is back transmitting from ESB!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I contacted someone who I figured might know something, who in turn gave me an e-mail address for someone at Liberman. I'm going to give the person at Liberman another day or two (conveniently when the weekend hits and I won't be buried under homework. Isn't that convenient?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) before I write an e-mail to the FCC.
> 
> 
> I'd be really interested to drag my analyzer to your place and have a look next time I'm in the area, I'm just really nervous about carrying my analyzer into or through New York City.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I kind of doubt it will be a problem. NYC is one of the safer big cities in America. But I can bring mine to dfl's place if you want and we can check it out.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ' thursday gave birth to triplets. Two girls and a boy. ' Congratulation to you and to your other half, may God bless you and your children and give them good health



Thank you !!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19379433
> 
> 
> Just heard, on good authority, 28's ESB facility is down. The station is using its backup from West Orange, NJ.
> 
> 
> Things should be back working from ESB within the hour!



Maybe because I am tired I do not understand. What station is 28? I do not get a channel 28. help


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19380297
> 
> 
> I kind of doubt it will be a problem. NYC is one of the safer big cities in America. But I can bring mine to dfl's place if you want and we can check it out.



This sounds like a fun idea.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19380463
> 
> 
> Maybe because I am tired I do not understand. What station is 28? I do not get a channel 28. help



NBC 4.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

I don't know when it started but when I turned on the TV around 4 PM it was out. Signal strength was zero. However I tried to watch the NBC News at 6 PM and the signal was back for me ....around 75%.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19378583
> 
> 
> Seems that LATV has taken over the top spot on the Ch. 42 lineup. Daystar is now only on 42.2, with RTV still on .3; and the ever popular test pattern coming up the rear on .4.



After noticing that LATV was originally added to 42.4 and the signal for RTV was improved (somewhat, at least) I have not been able to tune in any any of the channels on 42. Has anyone noticed if their signal has changed or if they are off the air for some of the time?


Also, does anyone know what ch 39 is planning? They show HSN on 39.5 but the other channels all show the same odd collection of programs.


Thanks in advance for any info...


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19380297
> 
> 
> I kind of doubt it will be a problem. NYC is one of the safer big cities in America. But I can bring mine to dfl's place if you want and we can check it out.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19380556
> 
> 
> This sounds like a fun idea.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That would be great fellas, thank you!!! But remember, Mozzarella-Head says there's no great pizza here.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/19381859
> 
> 
> After noticing that LATV was originally added to 42.4 and the signal for RTV was improved (somewhat, at least) I have not been able to tune in any any of the channels on 42. Has anyone noticed if their signal has changed or if they are off the air for some of the time?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any info...



NYC, the WKOB signal has remained consistent here in the 81 to 85 range, and RTV has held for almost 2 days with no technical issues!!


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Check that, the RTV video freeze-framing has returned right now on McHale's Navy, (can't stand this show.) I knew it wouldn't be too long before the problems started up once again. Like a broken record!!


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19383018
> 
> 
> Check that, the RTV video freeze-framing has returned right now on McHale's Navy, (can't stand this show.) I knew it wouldn't be too long before the problems started up once again. Like a broken record!!



Thanks! I did see McHale's Navy today without any problems. But after that, the signals on all 4 of WKOB's channels are totally gone, on two different TVs.


----------



## AloEuro

As stated elsewhere the 42-1 LATV

42-2 Daystar, christians broadcast

42-3 Retro , damage of unreliable signal/shows remains

42-4 Color bars, wonder what they put there

Average signal strength with little fluctuation


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/19383957
> 
> 
> Thanks! I did see McHale's Navy today without any problems. But after that, the signals on all 4 of WKOB's channels are totally gone, on two different TVs.



At the time you were watching McHale's Navy, the freeze-framing was mild and deteriorated as the evening wore on. OTA receivers react in different ways. By midnight all color programming now back to B&W only, with the exception of locally inserted commercials.


Why you are not getting a signal at all I do not know? Perhaps it's the electrical interference that RF channel 2 is susceptible to, or if you are using an indoor antenna, your signal strength is weak.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19369502
> 
> 
> Yes I know ST, I should have said both are remapping to virtual channel 25.



WASA is now remapped as channel 24, despite that their ads and crawl promote new ICN networks to be added on channels 64.2 and 64.3.


WKOB appears to be back again... to me it seems as if these channels just disappear and reappear almost at random.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/19387154
> 
> 
> WASA is now remapped as channel 24, despite that their ads and crawl promote new ICN networks to be added on channels 64.2 and 64.3.
> 
> 
> WKOB appears to be back again... to me it seems as if these channels just disappear and reappear almost at random.



Yup, but I can't seem to purge WASA 25.1 so I see this ...

24-1 WASA

24-2 ICN

24-3 IAVC

25-1 WNYE1

25-1 WASA (No video or audio, just signal light)

25-2 WNYE2


No transmission loss of the 4 wondrous WKOB channels at any time here.


Which service wins your vote for the bottom of the barrel NY OTA award, WKOB or WASA?


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19387521
> 
> 
> Yup, but I can't seem to purge WASA 25.1 so I see this ...
> 
> 24-1 WASA
> 
> 24-2 ICN
> 
> 24-3 IAVC
> 
> 25-1 WNYE1
> 
> 25-1 WASA (No video or audio, just signal light)
> 
> 25-2 WNYE2
> 
> 
> No transmission loss of the 4 wondrous WKOB channels at any time here.
> 
> 
> Which service wins your vote for the bottom of the barrel NY OTA award, WKOB or WASA?



Thanks. My vote goes to WKOB as the programming scheduled to be on WASA does not appeal to me. WKOB is showing up now, strong steady signal -- it is either that or no signal at all. The problem at the moment is that RTV appears in black and white only and audio is not in sync with video. Oh... and just as I am typing, the picture froze, then just white dashes, then switched to a test pattern... then just blank. Sigh. I hope RTV finds a stronger, more reliable station.


Any idea what is planned for ch 39? They use 4 channels for the same material, then one for HSN and then I guess the other 4 subs are just duplicates?


Thanks


----------



## NYC

WKOB is back, color returned right in the middle of Adam-12, but now the audio-video sync problem is worse than before.


----------



## nycdigital09

Which service wins your vote for the bottom of the barrel NY OTA award, WKOB or WASA?


wasa is worst, first theyr'e signal comes in great for a few seconds then it either the picture implodes or it shatters into pieces, then is programming they show or not show that is pitiful at best. i think wasa has they're head in you know where.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19387848
> 
> 
> Which service wins your vote for the bottom of the barrel NY OTA award, WKOB or WASA?



I'm amazed that these two non-HD carrying low power channels have gotten so much attention here.


----------



## raj2001

Saw this posted on on of my ham radio clubs' email list this morning. Thought I'd share:

http://radiomagonline.com/currents/n...019/index.html


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19390746
> 
> 
> Saw this posted on on of my ham radio clubs' email list this morning. Thought I'd share:
> 
> http://radiomagonline.com/currents/n...019/index.html



Clarification: This link refers to the combiner transmitting FM stations from ESB


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/19390909
> 
> 
> Clarification: This link refers to the combiner transmitting FM stations from ESB



That is correct but they did say that TV stations were forced to shutdown as well.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19390746
> 
> 
> Saw this posted on on of my ham radio clubs' email list this morning. Thought I'd share:
> 
> http://radiomagonline.com/currents/n...019/index.html



I was just gonna post this myself. It was also posted on Allen Sniffen's excellent New York Radio Message Board. http://nyrmb.com/ 


The article does mention all broadcast stations, including TV, shut down from the combiner on 19 Oct, but it isn't really clear if they are also only using the upper bay at 50% power as the radio stations are currently.


----------



## LenL

If OTA was impacted I did not see it out here by me... where if even a flock of geese are flying overhead and take a dump while flying between me and the ESB my reception takes a hit.


ALso there was an interesting article in the NJ Star Ledger business section today about the FOX Cablevision feud with Cablevision. It said that more people going to OTA. According to the article sellers of antennas, converter boxes etc are doing brisk business. They also mention it is not the older generation but young adults that seem to be very interested in going OTA. They are either dumping cable or adding OTA to their cable as a backup.


It also promoted all the stuff out there in OTA land. Good to read and see!


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19390915
> 
> 
> That is correct but they did say that TV stations were forced to shutdown as well.



How brief was the TV shutdown? Will people think this FM combiner burnout has affected their TV reception?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19364805
> 
> 
> The taller buildings you speak of in Washington Heights are part of New York - Presbyterian Hospital's Columbia Presbyterian campus.



I've been spending a lot of time up there. That's where the kids are right now actually.



> Quote:
> I doubt that the hospital personnel would want such concentrated amounts of radiation above their heads. Could never understand WFUV (FM radio station) transmitting from
> 
> the Montefiore Medical Center in The Bronx.



I don't think that's the problem. That's not exactly the best part of town to be in after dark.


----------



## SnellKrell

"That's not exactly the best part of town to be in after dark."


Well, at least the hospital is right there!


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19391045
> 
> 
> If OTA was impacted I did not see it out here by me... where if even a flock of geese are flying overhead and take a dump while flying between me and the ESB my reception takes a hit.



Lol, sounds familiar. I haven't seen CBS out here since last Tuesday, Oct. 19th.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19391045
> 
> 
> Also there was an interesting article in the NJ Star Ledger business section today about the FOX Cablevision feud with Cablevision. It said that more people going to OTA. According to the article sellers of antennas, converter boxes etc are doing brisk business. They also mention it is not the older generation but young adults that seem to be very interested in going OTA. They are either dumping cable or adding OTA to their cable as a backup.
> 
> 
> It also promoted all the stuff out there in OTA land. Good to read and see!



I believe this is the article you referred to?

* Cablevision asks FCC to force Fox to return channels as World Series nears *


----------



## raj2001

No, those are ads.


This is the article: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._to_force.html


----------



## LenL

The article I am referring to is in today's (Tuesday) Star Ledger in the business section by Gregory Karp of the Chicago Tribune titled..... ANTENNAS: NEW GENERATION TURNS TO AN OLD TECHNOLOGY. A must read for all of you OTA folks!


I just goggled it and came up with the same piece that was in the SL but with a different title at this location: http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/10/26...ring-free.html


----------



## keyboard21

Univision set to become top U.S. broadcast network


With double-digit ratings growth this season, Spanish-language broadcaster Univision is off to a better start than any of the major English-language networks, and the future is promising as well.


The new census is expected to show a nearly 45% increase in the number of Hispanic Americans since 2000, to a total of 50 million. This couples with continuing audience erosion at the major networks and Univision's recent deal with Mexican programer Grupo Televisa, which locks up the source of much the network's popular programing for at least another decade.


*Guess we all knew this?*


----------



## nycdigital09

I'm looking to hear from a OTA user who has used or is using a winegard hd 9095 uhf yagi antenna, specifically can you tell me some pros and cons of this antenna. Im looking to find out if how it would perform on urban environment where multipath or 2edge reception comes into play. I like to hear from anyone who has first hand experience with this antenna. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:0,s:0


----------



## DeadFormatLover

That's one of the 2 antenna systems I had installed last November, and no, it doesn't for me.


----------



## nycdigital09

formatlover you are currently using this, how well does it work for uhf channels, i have this antenna now, i haven't put it on roof yet, i had to take out my yagi last week, it has old type of balun, not the box one, like the newer antennas, i read that this antenna is hard to set up, can you tell me if the antenna can be used with a rotator?


----------



## Digital Rules

Have you considered the 91XG? It works like a charm in our high multipath area right outside Wash DC. It receives just about every UHF station down to the gray zone with a good deal of reliability. Even the highly directional WUTB-24 is reasonably drop-out free most of the time.


----------



## DeadFormatLover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19393632
> 
> 
> formatlover you are currently using this, how well does it work for uhf channels, i have this antenna now, i haven't put it on roof yet, i had to take out my yagi last week, it has old type of balun, not the box one, like the newer antennas, i read that this antenna is hard to set up, can you tell me if the antenna can be used with a rotator?



I had a pro-installer set it up. Works fine with a rotor, but I wouldn't recommend it after the poor results I have gotten, but as I've said here before, I need to raise both my systems from the current 15 ft. to 20 or greater.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19388625
> 
> 
> I'm amazed that these two non-HD carrying low power channels have gotten so much attention here.



Sorry, it's just that WKOB carries RTV and have been wanting to see what that is like. I tune it in, but have had a variety of problems, including it just vanishing every now and then. Could that be because of the ESB antenna problems?


I also noted that there was a discussion of WFUV broadcasting from a Monte owned facility... WFAS and WVIP also use that same antenna now.


I also noticed that 39.4 is now Aliento Vision and that several new blank channels appeared briefly this afternoon:

31.5 AirTV1

31.6 AirTV2

31.7 AirTV16

31.8 AirTV4

31.9 AirTV9


Any clue what AirTV is, or what else may be added to the other 39's?


Thanks!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/19394392
> 
> 
> Sorry, it's just that WKOB carries RTV and have been wanting to see what that is like. I tune it in, but have had a variety of problems, including it just vanishing every now and then. Could that be because of the ESB antenna problems?
> 
> 
> I also noted that there was a discussion of WFUV broadcasting from a Monte owned facility... WFAS and WVIP also use that same antenna now.
> 
> 
> I also noticed that 39.4 is now Aliento Vision and that several new blank channels appeared briefly this afternoon:
> 
> 31.5 AirTV1
> 
> 31.6 AirTV2
> 
> 31.7 AirTV16
> 
> 31.8 AirTV4
> 
> 31.9 AirTV9
> 
> 
> Any clue what AirTV is, or what else may be added to the other 39's?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Hymmm was this it?
http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_sdat/airtv-1.htm 

Doubt it.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/19393688
> 
> 
> Have you considered the 91XG? It works like a charm in our high multipath area right outside Wash DC. It receives just about every UHF station down to the gray zone with a good deal of reliability. Even the highly directional WUTB-24 is reasonably drop-out free most of the time.



I used it before, I don't like the antenna is too flimpsy, some of directors got bent out of shape, it won't make it thru the winter here in NE. im looking to use a stronger type of antenna like 9095 or 9032 maybe an 4 bay screen type, i know that the yagi type are better for multipath, but im using a 2 bay right now and it works excellent. any recommendations?


----------



## Digital Rules

I have found the 91XG to hold up well over the 3 years it has been up here. We had a ton of snow here last year with no damage to either antenna. (Also using a YA-1713) I have even set it on it's side a few times with a 5 foot pole attached on a sloped roof.


Not sure what else to suggest though. Been tempted to try the 9032 or 9095 in the past, but have only seen so-so reviews. Also, not too keen on the 9095 since all the weight is hanging to one side & fear it will put extra strain on the rotor. Have tried the original 4228 & Winegard HD 8800, but not impressed with metro or suburban performance of either model.


----------



## ja2bk

25.2 is now NYC Gov (used to be NYC Drive)


Wonder why they didn't just add a 25.3 and have both. Heck, to be honest, not sure why they don't just have all their channels on there. Why should one have to have basic cable to see these channels? As best I know, they (former Crosswalks TV + WNYE = NYC TV) operate out of the same facility (or were suppose to by now).


----------



## ADTech

It is very rare that we have to send out replacement 91XG directors for customers. I can only remember sending out two or three packages with replacement directors in the last year.


In any event, they're free under our lifetime warranty for customers who need them.


My 91Xg has performed very well except when it got slapped in the back end by a tree-top that bent over more than 20' in a windstorm last year. I had to replace the rear boom section...


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ja2bk* /forum/post/19396934
> 
> 
> 25.2 is now NYC Gov (used to be NYC Drive)
> 
> 
> Wonder why they didn't just add a 25.3 and have both. Heck, to be honest, not sure why they don't just have all their channels on there. Why should one have to have basic cable to see these channels? As best I know, they (former Crosswalks TV + WNYE = NYC TV) operate out of the same facility (or were suppose to by now).



be glad that WNYE is providing 1 other channel at all. Most big cities do not run OTA tv stations. Cable companies operating out of the 5 boros fund the NYCTV channels (except WNYE of course) and would probably like it to be cable exclusive even though viewership is low. Also WNYE may allocate the bandwith for future upgrade to HD.


----------



## DeadFormatLover

Just received this from * Cablevision. *


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeadFormatLover* /forum/post/19399343
> 
> 
> Just received this from * Cablevision. *



Ya I got the same. Seems Cablevision is trying to stem the tide of people leaving them. I also saw online that FOX said it was reported Cablevision was giving a $20 per month discount ( for 2 years)to people who called and threatened to cancel. I tried and that dept was closed and the woman who answered said no way and that was news to her.


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ADTech* /forum/post/19397226
> 
> 
> My 91Xg has performed very well except when it got slapped in the back end by a tree-top that bent over more than 20' in a windstorm last year. I had to replace the rear boom section...



I can vouch for the sensitivity of the Antennas Direct 91Xg...

I'm 49 air miles (according to tvfool, and antennaweb) east of the ESB (mid Suffolk County) and have my 91Xg on a 20' mast mounted to the attic peak of my two story home. I estimate that the total elevation is about 40' above ground level.

Without a preamp I pull in:

2.1 - signal strength 68-70 out of 100 on my TiVo-HD

4.1 4.2 etc... signal strength 78

5.1 signal strength 99-100

9.1 signal strength 77

All 100% watchable with any freezing even on the TiVo's pretty crappy OTA tuner.


FWIW I attached a Channel Master CM777 pre-amp and it actually lowered my signal strength numbers a bit. A friend who's into RF told me the CM777 is overdriving in my case because the antenna is performing so well- so I'm just running the 91Xg straight to the TiVo without amplification with excellent results.


----------



## LenL

I'm 30 miles West by Northwest of the ESB and I have tried to pull in channels without the CM7777 and my results are the opposite of yours. The only way I can lock on the channels and get any decent reception is with the CM7777.


I have this preamp on both a home built GH6 and a store bought CM4228. In both cases the preamp dramatically helped reception. Of course there are a lot of variables that make our locations very different for reception.


----------



## NervousCat

Antennas Direct has reported a 300% increase of sales from the NY and Philadelphia TV markets.

http://www.fiercetelecom.com/press_r...d-philadelphia 


Cablevision-Fox dispute has increased awareness of OTA reception. I even read in another article where someone said that his wife didn't even know OTA reception was still available.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19399042
> 
> 
> be glad that WNYE is providing 1 other channel at all. Most big cities do not run OTA tv stations. Cable companies operating out of the 5 boros fund the NYCTV channels (except WNYE of course) and would probably like it to be cable exclusive even though viewership is low. *Also WNYE may allocate the bandwith for future upgrade to HD.*



Ah, that would explain it. I thought the channels were attached to franchise agreements. I didn't realize they had anything to do with funding them. It looks like NYC gov on the .2 is actually a mix of all the programming on the cable channels based on TitanTV info. Some stuff is certainly not City Council stuff.


It would be interesting to see if they do go HD as they did state that on their website prior to the termination of analog.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19399042
> 
> 
> Also WNYE may allocate the bandwith for future upgrade to HD.



I remember them running crawls saying that they would transition to HD by the actual transition date last year. What happened?


----------



## SnellKrell

I would imagine - $s!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ADTech* /forum/post/19397226
> 
> 
> It is very rare that we have to send out replacement 91XG directors for customers. I can only remember sending out two or three packages with replacement directors in the last year.
> 
> 
> In any event, they're free under our lifetime warranty for customers who need them.
> 
> 
> My 91Xg has performed very well except when it got slapped in the back end by a tree-top that bent over more than 20' in a windstorm last year. I had to replace the rear boom section...



I like to ask you a question. I bought a 91xg this past august from amazon.com it was used antenna, i paid $29 + shipping. the antenna looked brand new, It came with original box, and the warranty. the antenna was sent from a third party company, can't remember who, but it was from cleveland ohio area. not thru amazon directly, Is the warranty still valid, or is the warranty based on a purchase from AD directly or authorized dealer, could i still get a replacement part, yes or no

I hate to put you on the spot, just wanna know if is still valid.


thxs


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19406465
> 
> 
> I like to ask you a question. I bought a 91xg this past august from amazon.com it was used antenna, i paid $29 + shipping. the antenna looked brand new, It came with original box, and the warranty. the antenna was sent from a third party company, can't remember who, but it was from cleveland ohio area. not thru amazon directly, Is the warranty still valid, or is the warranty based on a purchase from AD directly or authorized dealer, could i still get a replacement part, yes or no
> 
> I hate to put you on the spot, just wanna know if is still valid.
> 
> 
> thxs



Our lifetime warranty applies regardless of the point of purchase. It is published on our website at http://www.antennasdirect.com/limited-warranty.html . Please note that there is a distinct difference between a product warranty and issues that might be due to problems from shipping or product fulfillment such as the sale of open box items or shipping damage. These types of issues should be handled with the seller if if sold by someone other than Antennas Direct.


Call or or use the the contact form on our website and let us know what may be needed. http://www.antennasdirect.com/contact-us.html


----------



## NervousCat

There is a Two Antenna Trick for indoor antennas if you have multipath problems. This article on An HDTV Primer uses the Silver Sensor as an example:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html#TAT 


Something to try if you have some free time (and a extra antenna). It doesn't always work, as the last paragraph in the article says:


"Don’t be too surprised if you can’t get this to work. Canceling two ghosts is difficult. The two diagrams above assume both antennas are in identical fields. Indoors, this is seldom the case. If this system does work then all you have to do is convince your wife to let you keep it."


----------



## StudioTech

It appears that WNBC 4.2 aka NY NonStop has finally been converted to widescreen. It's still 480i of course. This change may have coincided with the launch of Nonstop on other O&Os throughout the country.


----------



## peterlee

Does Fox 5 have any transmission peculiaries that could explain why I have a hard time getting a stable signal at my location? I live in a 10th floor apt with south facing windows on 57th and 11th Ave in Manhattan. I don't quite have a line-of-sight view of the Empire State Building - which antennaweb says is 1.6 miles away - because of a tall building that blocks the way but otherwise. there aren't that many tall buildings south of me. In fact, my reception is great for both UHF and VHF stations using nothing more than radio Shack rabbit ears, all except Fox 5. My Tivo signal meter says I get in the 90+ range for channels 2, 7 and 11 and in the 80s for NBC 4. Fox 5 hovers around the high 50s to low 60s and the feed invariably breaks up, freezes or glitches during a typical one-hour program. Based on the data I found on antennapoint.com, Fox 5 transmits from the same location and at similar power levels and UHF band spots as CBS 2 yet the former is flakey while latter is rock solid. Any ideas why?


I am considering buying a Antenna Direct Clearstream2 to alleviate the problem but even assuming it would make my Fox 5 reception better, I'd like to avoid buying the antenna when $10 rabbit ears work so well for all the other channels. Is there something else I can do to improve Fox 5 reception?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19408289
> 
> 
> It appears that WNBC 4.2 aka NY NonStop has finally been converted to widescreen. It's still 480i of course. This change may have coincided with the launch of Nonstop on other O&Os throughout the country.



actually they went from 16:9 letterbox on a 4:3 screen to 4:3 on 4:3. only took them a year and change to figure out that the original format was a bad idea and looked awful on any type of tv you watched the channel on.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peterlee* /forum/post/19409102
> 
> 
> Does Fox 5 have any transmission peculiaries that could explain why I have a hard time getting a stable signal at my location?



I've heard Fox 5's signal is not omnidirectional. Some folks complain Fox 5 is their worst channel while others say Fox 5 is their strongest channel). I looked up their signal pattern, and the link is below (thanks to Trip's fabulous rabbitears.info web site)

http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...tion=0&erp=500 



> Quote:
> I am considering buying a Antenna Direct Clearstream2 to alleviate the problem but even assuming it would make my Fox 5 reception better, I'd like to avoid buying the antenna when $10 rabbit ears work so well for all the other channels. Is there something else I can do to improve Fox 5 reception?



Since you are 1.6 miles away from the ESB, your problem is probably not low signal strength. It sounds like a multipath problem from signals bouncing off the concrete canyons of Manhattan. 10 years ago when I lived in Connecticut, my apartment was at the base of Rattlesnake mountain where some of the Hartford TV stations broadcast from. I was literally underneath their tower on the mountain, and I had horrible multipath problems which resulted in "ghosting" on the analog TV reception back then with just a pair of rabbit ears. Twisting and turning those rabbit ears did not improve the problem at all. Maybe a more directional indoor antenna like the Silver Sensor might help? You could also try the Two Antenna Trick , but you would end up spending more money for two Silver Sensor antennas (still cheaper than one Clearstream C2) in order to stack them horizontally. I don't know anyone who has actually tried this trick, so I can't guarantee it actually works.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19409681
> 
> 
> actually they went from 16:9 letterbox on a 4:3 screen to 4:3 on 4:3.




But if you have a 16:9 screen, the channel now shows up as 16:9. All widescreen programming such as NY Nightly News fills the entire screen.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/19410147
> 
> 
> I've heard Fox 5's signal is not omnidirectional. Some folks complain Fox 5 is their worst channel while others say Fox 5 is their strongest channel). I looked up their signal pattern, and the link is below (thanks to Trip's fabulous rabbitears.info web site)
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...tion=0&erp=500



Actually I don't think that's the current antenna pattern. That's a construction permit for next year.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yep. The current antenna is omni, but side-mounted I believe.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19408289
> 
> 
> It appears that WNBC 4.2 aka NY NonStop has finally been converted to widescreen. It's still 480i of course. This change may have coincided with the launch of Nonstop on other O&Os throughout the country.



Oh, my god, thank you!. Finally, someone with a brain at WNBC woke up and actually knows what they are doing. Most of the programming on 4.2 was always widescreen anyway, so this makes sense.

Hopefully WLIW 21.1,21.2,21.3 will follow suit since most of their shows are widescreen also.


----------



## peterlee

Thanks for the replies. I ended up getting the Clearstream2 antenna yesterday and I'll try it for the week. My first impressions is that it has improved my reception of Fox 5; my Tivo meter pegs the signal in the mid to upper 60s now and I think it seems more stable and less prone to glitching. Time will tell. The improved Fox 5 UHF signal comes at the cost of reduced signal strength for the VHF channels but so far, their signals are still strong enough and not fluctuating.


I moved my rabbit ears to my 2010 model year TV and discovered it has no trouble locking into a stable signal from Fox 5. I guess it's a reminder that location and transmitter are factors but so is the sensitivity of the receiver.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peterlee* /forum/post/19412614
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replies. I ended up getting the Clearstream2 antenna yesterday and I'll try it for the week. My first impressions is that it has improved my reception of Fox 5; my Tivo meter pegs the signal in the mid to upper 60s now and I think it seems more stable and less prone to glitching. Time will tell. The improved Fox 5 UHF signal comes at the cost of reduced signal strength for the VHF channels but so far, their signals are still strong enough and not fluctuating.
> 
> 
> I moved my rabbit ears to my 2010 model year TV and discovered it has no trouble locking into a stable signal from Fox 5. I guess it's a reminder that location and transmitter are factors but so is the sensitivity of the receiver.



2 things


1) Are you using RG6 coax or better?


2) Ever think of adding a pre-amp?



BTW I thought the C2 was made for High VHF and UHF


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19413305
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> BTW I thought the C2 was made for High VHF and UHF



The C2 is a very nice compact UHF antenna, in my opinion.


However, its "high-VHF performance" is dependent on one of two things:


1) Blind damn luck

2) Knowledge of HOW it picks up VHF combined with blind damn luck or a spectrum analyzer.


Since I have a spectrum analyzer and, by blind damn luck (and some internet research), I've figured out how to give it better odds. The coax cable is the high-VHF reception element, just like the power cord is used by many clock/radios for FM. Placing the coax nearest the antenna in a plane where it is exposed to more of the incoming RF signal will usually help.


I heard the manufacturer has finally decided to make a VHF add-on dipole to provide a more predictable level of high-VHF reception. It's supposed to be out late this year from what I heard.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19413305
> 
> 
> 2 things
> 
> 
> 1) Are you using RG6 coax or better?
> 
> 
> 2) Ever think of adding a pre-amp?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW I thought the C2 was made for High VHF and UHF



a preamp would be a bad idea, he is


----------



## peterlee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19413305
> 
> 
> BTW I thought the C2 was made for High VHF and UHF



I can get stronger VHF reception from the Clearstream2 by moving it but then UHF suffers. The spot where it is gives good reception for both VHF and UHF even though better reception for either band can be achieved in other locations. Mind you, VHF isn't bad - it's still in the upper 60s and low 70s and the picture appears to be as stable as it was when the signal meter was in the 90-100 range. I don't mind that the numbers have dropped as long as the picture remains clean.


Still mysterious to me why reception for Fox UHF is weak while other UHF channels are so strong. I would think that if multipath interference was the cause, the other UHF channels would be similarly affected. A year ago, Fox 5 was one of the strongest channels for me then it changed about nine months ago.


----------



## AloEuro

LATV no more on 42, wonder what happened, the Daystar is back on 42-1 A/V and -2 mostly Audio, the Retro on -3 fundamental problems remain, -4 those ugly,mean, nasty color bars


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *peterlee* /forum/post/19416131
> 
> 
> Still mysterious to me why reception for Fox UHF is weak while other UHF channels are so strong. I would think that if multipath interference was the cause, the other UHF channels would be similarly affected. A year ago, Fox 5 was one of the strongest channels for me then it changed about nine months ago.



They are not similarly affected. Their antenna is about 200 feet below the master antenna for WCBS, WNBC and WOR. That by itself is a problem because their signal is shadowed by other buildings much more than the other signals. Mulitpath is also aggravated when transmitting from lower heights. But they have another problem in that their antenna is mounted on the side of the ES building, not on the antenna mast. So the building itself further shadows their signal in some directions.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19408289
> 
> 
> It appears that WNBC 4.2 aka NY NonStop has finally been converted to widescreen. It's still 480i of course. This change may have coincided with the launch of Nonstop on other O&Os throughout the country.



Well that didn't last long. I just checked 4.2 and they went back to 4:3.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19421448
> 
> 
> Well that didn't last long. I just checked 4.2 and they went back to 4:3.



there seems to be some misunderstanding about ny non stop. it was previously a fulltime 16:9 channel on a 4:3 channel so whether you watched on a 4:3 CRT TV or a 16:9 HD TV, you saw letterbox on all programming with black bars all around. it was innovative yet stupid because it shrank all the programming and confused many viewers.


now the channel is like any other standard def channel where 4:3 content that fills up the screen and programming shot 16:9 with bars on top and bottom.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19421699
> 
> 
> there seems to be some misunderstanding about ny non stop. it was previously a fulltime 16:9 channel on a 4:3 channel so whether you watched on a 4:3 CRT TV or a 16:9 HD TV, you saw letterbox on all programming with black bars all around. it was innovative yet stupid because it shrank all the programming and confused many viewers.
> 
> 
> now the channel is like any other standard def channel where 4:3 content that fills up the screen and programming shot 16:9 with bars on top and bottom.



I'm not sure what you are trying to say in the last paragraph, but on Saturday, 4.2 showed up as _16:9 480i_ on the info bar on my TV, which meant shows shot in 16:9 ( which was about 99% of their shows) filled the entire screen nicely on my HDTV.

Today however I noticed now my screen says _4:3 480i_. I wonder why they changed it.


----------



## dave73

I was having a difficult time searching thru all the searches on New York Nonstop, and what people thought about the channel. Since it's been on in New York for a year now, what does everyone think about the channel, both in programming & picture quality. Has that channel along with Universal Sports affected the channel overall? Chicago Nonstop debuted yesterday, and not do I find the programming bland, but the picture quality on all 3 channels look terrible. NBC Chicago had to take some bandwidth away from 5.1 & 5.3 to add it to 5.2. 5.2 used to have less than a megabyte, since it used to be a weather radar channel. Now, even after adding bandwidth to 5.2, it still looks terrible. The way I see it, NBC doesn't seem concerned about picture quality. 1080i doesn't seem to support more than 1 subchannel in my opinion, & ABC is just as guilty with running 2 720p HD channels, but that's another topic all together. I forgot to mention that Chicago Nonstop is a 4:3 channel with blackbars on top & bottom for widescreen programs.


----------



## nyctveng

ny nonstop programming has improved since launch but with it's old

format for blackbars all around, it was annoying to watch.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dave73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was having a difficult time searching thru all the searches on New York Nonstop, and what people thought about the channel. Since it's been on in New York for a year now, what does everyone think about the channel, both in programming & picture quality. Has that channel along with Universal Sports affected the channel overall? Chicago Nonstop debuted yesterday, and not do I find the programming bland, but the picture quality on all 3 channels look terrible. NBC Chicago had to take some bandwidth away from 5.1 & 5.3 to add it to 5.2. 5.2 used to have less than a megabyte, since it used to be a weather radar channel. Now, even after adding bandwidth to 5.2, it still looks terrible. The way I see it, NBC doesn't seem concerned about picture quality. 1080i doesn't seem to support more than 1 subchannel in my opinion, & ABC is just as guilty with running 2 720p HD channels, but that's another topic all together. I forgot to mention that Chicago Nonstop is a 4:3 channel with blackbars on top & bottom for widescreen programs.


----------



## Greg2600

A lot of the NonStop programming is rerun from WNBC-4.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19421804
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say in the last paragraph, but on Saturday, 4.2 showed up as _16:9 480i_ on the info bar on my TV, which meant shows shot in 16:9 ( which was about 99% of their shows) filled the entire screen nicely on my HDTV.
> 
> Today however I noticed now my screen says _4:3 480i_. I wonder why they changed it.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19427358
> 
> 
> A lot of the NonStop programming is rerun from WNBC-4.




Tonight would've been perfect since they're doing 3 hours of prime-time election coverage, while the main channel stays with regularly schedule prime time shows, something WABC used to do before LiveWell came on the air.


----------



## nycdigital09

nynonstop i'm not crazy bout, is pretty much, a magazine channel, e magazine come to mind, to dave whats with green lettering? im going blind.


----------



## dave73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19429908
> 
> 
> nynonstop i'm not crazy bout, is pretty much, a magazine channel, e magazine come to mind, to dave whats with green lettering? im going blind.


Poeple have been complaining about it all the time, but I see no problem with it. I can read it fine, both with the default skin, & even better with the retro skin. I however don't like the retro skin, because it doesn't let me know any threads I read recently, and any that have any new postings. I could always go with a color worse than green. The complaints I hear have been from those with the retro look & not the default look.


To everyone else who have been giving me feedback on NY Nonstop, it gives me an idea what I should expect with Chicago Nonstop. I wonder how much programming from NY Nonstop will make it to Chicago Nonstop, & other NBC O&O stations with their own Nonstop channel (current & upcoming).


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dave73* /forum/post/19430160
> 
> Poeple have been complaining about it all the time, but I see no problem with it. I can read it fine, both with the default skin, & even better with the retro skin. I however don't like the retro skin, because it doesn't let me know any threads I read recently, and any that have any new postings. I could always go with a color worse than green. The complaints I hear have been from those with the retro look & not the default look.
> 
> 
> To everyone else who have been giving me feedback on NY Nonstop, it gives me an idea what I should expect with Chicago Nonstop. I wonder how much programming from NY Nonstop will make it to Chicago Nonstop, & other NBC O&O stations with their own Nonstop channel (current & upcoming).



I find that when people use a color I dislike reading. I just ignore their posts. To me it is the same as ALL CAPS. Non considerate of others.


My aunt likes NY nonstop. I do not watch it that much. Unless they talk about the best places to get certain foods.


----------



## keyboard21

Does anyone have an update if ANTENNA TV is coming to WPIX 11. ?


Any news on the Jan 3rd date?


TY


----------



## yobiworld

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dave73* 
Poeple have been complaining about it all the time, but I see no problem with it. I can read it fine, both with the default skin, & even better with the retro skin. I however don't like the retro skin, because it doesn't let me know any threads I read recently, and any that have any new postings. I could always go with a color worse than green. The complaints I hear have been from those with the retro look & not the default look.


To everyone else who have been giving me feedback on NY Nonstop, it gives me an idea what I should expect with Chicago Nonstop. I wonder how much programming from NY Nonstop will make it to Chicago Nonstop, & other NBC O&O stations with their own Nonstop channel (current & upcoming).
Those people just want something to complain about. I can read it just fine and im shore others can to and if they cant then That is there problem.


----------



## nycdigital09

green text is ok, i was looking at your post in a completely dark room, so it sort of stood out, if you know what i mean. Anyone notice lately if ch63 rf18 out of little falls nj has boosted their signal or possibly moved their transmitter to esb or any other high rise, in manhattan I'm getting their signal for the first time in my life. is coming in like a banshee, really strong like if was abc or pix, i'm using indoor antenna. they broadcast 6 different channels all ethnic programming, no hd content though. azteca is one of the channels. could it be atmospherics enhancement, doubt it though, i never been able to pull in that channel even with a roof mounted antenna, I suffer severe mulitpath in my location. could be that we're getting some precipitation today, so the atmosphere is excited. Trip or Raj hear if wmb has boosted their signal !!


----------



## nycdigital09

wmbc is most likely using a booster channel somewhere in manhattan possibly queens. definitely not, tropo or atmospheric anyone can verify this. tune to rf 18.1 thru 18-6.

it has to be booster. kb21 or mikepier can you check this out. thxs


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19431857
> 
> 
> Does anyone have an update if ANTENNA TV is coming to WPIX 11. ?
> 
> 
> Any news on the Jan 3rd date?
> 
> 
> TY


 http://antennatv.tv/shows/antenna/affiliates/ 


WPIX is listed as an official affiliate, so I'd say they should definitely add it. What sub-channel, who knows. WPIX does not reply to emails I've sent.


----------



## dave73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19435933
> 
> http://antennatv.tv/shows/antenna/affiliates/
> 
> 
> WPIX is listed as an official affiliate, so I'd say they should definitely add it. What sub-channel, who knows. WPIX does not reply to emails I've sent.


Unless Tribune plans to drop Estrella TV on 11.2 (like they did with LATV on all their stations that carried the network), then Antenna TV will be 11.4, as a 3rd subchannel. They're not gonna get rid of This TV since they signed a contract to carry This TV in markets that didn't already carry This TV. Tribune is making claim that Antenna TV will compliment This TV (created by MGM & Chicago based Weigel Broadcasting). Now what surprises me is that in the St Louis market, KPLR-TV is not carrying carrying Antenna TV, but KTVI, owned by Local TV is instead of carrying Antenna TV. I thought Tribune was gonna make all their markets carry Antenna TV.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19434740
> 
> 
> wmbc is most likely using a booster channel somewhere in manhattan possibly queens. definitely not, tropo or atmospheric anyone can verify this. tune to rf 18.1 thru 18-6.
> 
> it has to be booster. kb21 or mikepier can you check this out. thxs



Sorry I am not able to.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19435933
> 
> http://antennatv.tv/shows/antenna/affiliates/
> 
> 
> WPIX is listed as an official affiliate, so I'd say they should definitely add it. What sub-channel, who knows. WPIX does not reply to emails I've sent.



_*Antenna TV markets already cleared.

More to come.

New York WPIX*_



So I am guessing that WPIX agreed to put it on? I also tried e-mail Wpix. No response. Rude if you ask me


I did try antenna TV. Let you know if I get a response.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19436685
> 
> _*Antenna TV markets already cleared.
> 
> More to come.
> 
> New York WPIX*_
> 
> 
> 
> So I am guessing that WPIX agreed to put it on? I also tried e-mail Wpix. No response. Rude if you ask me
> 
> 
> I did try antenna TV. Let you know if I get a response.



If the site says WPIX is going to carry it, what else do you need to know?


----------



## Greg2600

 http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...=73881#station 


Rabbit Ears has it as 11.4 coming soon. The problem with WPIX is that with all these sub channels, their video bit rate is much lower now.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19436921
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...=73881#station
> 
> 
> Rabbit Ears has it as 11.4 coming soon. The problem with WPIX is that with all these sub channels, their video bit rate is much lower now.



Well surprise, surprise. To Quote Gomer Pile.


I sent an email to Antenna TV. AND I got a response. I asked if they will be on WPIX on jan 1st. Here is the answer

_*"Yes, it will on 11.3."*_


So either they are wrong or This TV is being moved to 11.4


OR


Estrella is going bye bye and then 11.2 THIS TV and 11.3 Antenna TV


Very interesting and surprising answer. Don't you guys think?


----------



## StudioTech

Ok, for the umpteenth time, WPIX has never split their signal 4 ways. Something is going to give and it's going to be EstrellaTV.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19438586
> 
> 
> Ok, for the umpteenth time, WPIX has never split their signal 4 ways. Something is going to give and it's going to be EstrellaTV.



Question, Why would rabbit ears show all 3 as subs?


Since univision is #5 and is projected to be #1 in 5 or 10 years. Why would they give up a Spanish station?


Does make sense since contracts end at the end of the year.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19438598
> 
> 
> Since univision is #5 and is projected to be #1 in 5 or 10 years. Why would they give up a Spanish station?



Why did they give up LATV?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19438598
> 
> 
> Question, Why would rabbit ears show all 3 as subs?



Because I don't know for sure.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19438618
> 
> 
> Because I don't know for sure.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hey trip how you been? What do you think of that info I got? Interesting huh.


My Aunt gets 11 (wpix) very well in the signal department. So she will be happy. Seems the sample of their programing. Shows MOViES from 5am to 12:30 pm M thru F. That will be nice more movies to Add to this tv, ION, and 45.1


Well BYE BYE RTV. This is the final nail imo. Is there a market for 2 old time TV channels? I don't think so. Especially when one has 90% better coverage.


----------



## dvdchance

The schedule for antenna TV isn't that diverse, 3 hours of Married with Children each night. No dramas at all.


I just hope they don't get rid of this.tv since it's somehow become my girlfriends favourite channel. She really likes the somewhat obscure and offbeat movies they show.


Anyone have an email for WPIX so I can send them a message?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19434740
> 
> 
> wmbc is most likely using a booster channel somewhere in manhattan possibly queens. definitely not, tropo or atmospheric anyone can verify this. tune to rf 18.1 thru 18-6.
> 
> it has to be booster. kb21 or mikepier can you check this out. thxs




WMBC is actual UHF 18, virtual 63. I can get it with no problem, very strong signal .


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dave73* /forum/post/19425954
> 
> I was having a difficult time searching thru all the searches on New York Nonstop, and what people thought about the channel. Since it's been on in New York for a year now, what does everyone think about the channel, both in programming & picture quality. Has that channel along with Universal Sports affected the channel overall? Chicago Nonstop debuted yesterday, and not do I find the programming bland, but the picture quality on all 3 channels look terrible. NBC Chicago had to take some bandwidth away from 5.1 & 5.3 to add it to 5.2. 5.2 used to have less than a megabyte, since it used to be a weather radar channel. Now, even after adding bandwidth to 5.2, it still looks terrible. The way I see it, NBC doesn't seem concerned about picture quality. 1080i doesn't seem to support more than 1 subchannel in my opinion, & ABC is just as guilty with running 2 720p HD channels, but that's another topic all together. I forgot to mention that Chicago Nonstop is a 4:3 channel with blackbars on top & bottom for widescreen programs.



Every time I see this green - every time is St. Patrick day. The Irish invasion of AVForum


----------



## dave73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19440247
> 
> 
> Every time I see this green - every time is St. Patrick day. The Irish invasion of AVForum


That's funny. In fact, I'm part Irish.


----------



## Greg2600

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dvdchance* 
The schedule for antenna TV isn't that diverse, 3 hours of Married with Children each night. No dramas at all.


I just hope they don't get rid of this.tv since it's somehow become my girlfriends favourite channel. She really likes the somewhat obscure and offbeat movies they show.


Anyone have an email for WPIX so I can send them a message?
Tribune has said several times they aren't replacing ThisTV with Antenna. I concur on the programming. Aside from a couple shows, most of these have been aired on cable channels like TV Land ad nauseum for years. If you don't have cable, though, it's a very nice addition. Given the inaction by WPIX at adding their sub channels, us FIOS users will still not have either This or Antenna but only Estrella.


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Greg2600* 
Tribune has said several times they aren't replacing ThisTV with Antenna. I concur on the programming. Aside from a couple shows, most of these have been aired on cable channels like TV Land ad nauseum for years. If you don't have cable, though, it's a very nice addition. Given the inaction by WPIX at adding their sub channels, us FIOS users will still not have either This or Antenna but only Estrella.








Same at cablevision. Maybe this tv has too low of a bitrate?


I did notice movies on antenna tv from 5 am to 12:30 pm


Might be a nice add on.


----------



## Greg2600

Nah, WMBC has gotten several of its foreign-language subchannels onto FIOS. I just think WPIX hasn't tried.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19438598
> 
> 
> Question, Why would rabbit ears show all 3 as subs?
> 
> 
> Since univision is #5 and is projected to be #1 in 5 or 10 years. Why would they give up a Spanish station?
> 
> 
> Does make sense since contracts end at the end of the year.



It could be possible that Estrella is going to WASA. Liberman owns both Estrella and WASA.


And despite being a -LD station they are pretty strong here!


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19434740
> 
> 
> wmbc is most likely using a booster channel somewhere in manhattan possibly queens.



I doubt it. WMBC is broadcasting from the WNJN facility in Montclair (by the train station). That facility has good coverage into NYC.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19451496
> 
> 
> I doubt it. WMBC is broadcasting from the WNJN facility in Montclair (by the train station). That facility has good coverage into NYC.



They do have a permit for an on-channel repeater on ESB at 90 kW.


- Trip


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19451496
> 
> 
> I doubt it. WMBC is broadcasting from the WNJN facility in Montclair (by the train station). That facility has good coverage into NYC.



I did not know WMBC came off the same tower . I can also pick up NJN with no problem along with its sister station NJB in New Brunswick. I watch the PBS stations a lot.

I really don't watch WMBC at all, seems to be mostly infomercials along with foreign language subs.


----------



## jpru34

No idea why, but it seems like the last 1 to 2 months, the only station that is negatively affected when it gets windy out is Channel 2. I have intermittent pixelation and drop-outs of this station when very windy while all the other stations stay in the 90%+ range.


----------



## AloEuro

Both my converter boxes picked up 63-1,2,3,4,5,6-Audio Korean music, talk, 63-7or8 Audio Radio Espanol,music. All 6 Video-Audio subs have solid, strong signal 99-100 and 100Locked.

63-1 704x480i 30Hz, out of Newton, NJ 63-1 or 18 DT; All other subs 640x480i 30Hz


----------



## dvdchance

Thats odd but it appears ttribune took down the pdf antenna.tv schedule.


I bookmarked it from here http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2010-10/56949524.pdf but I just went to show someone and its gone.


Maybe they were getting negative feedback about the repetative schedule?


----------



## Greg2600

No, the link changed, it's still there.

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2010-11/56949524.pdf


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19451959
> 
> 
> They do have a permit for an on-channel repeater on ESB at 90 kW.
> 
> 
> - Trip



i think nycdigial09 is right that they must be doing something. a friend on the nassau/queens border is picking up wmbc now whereas it never came in before.


----------



## reddice

If that is true then why is njn so weak for me. It was much stronger with the indoor. Wmbc is now much stronger in the 80s which before I could not get it. They got to be in manhattan on the esb or 4ts.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19454155
> 
> 
> i think nycdigial09 is right that they must be doing something. a friend on the nassau/queens border is picking up wmbc now whereas it never came in before.



Yes my aunt barely got signal before and now it is like 100% Something changed. Too bad no real programing.


----------



## mikepier

Today I'm off from work, and it was nice outside, so I was curious to see if I turned my antenna to the NE, in the direction of the CT stations if I could pick up anything.

So I went on the roof with my laptop and Hauppauge tuner stick, and I could not get a whiff of any CT station. This is with a Radio Shack VU-75 antenna.


I was surprised, I thought I could get something. Here is my TV fool report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...81a31d38fc8c4c


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19452584
> 
> 
> I did not know WMBC came off the same tower . I can also pick up NJN with no problem along with its sister station NJB in New Brunswick. I watch the PBS stations a lot.
> 
> I really don't watch WMBC at all, seems to be mostly infomercials along with foreign language subs.



WMBC was a blow torch out here. I'm glad they moved!


----------



## AloEuro

LATV on 42-1 has shown strong signal, no pixelation, with Daystar, Retro plus whatever - the subs coatailing LATV with solid signal.

Now LATV is gone, apparently the California technicians took away with them their secrets of making good broadcast and all 42 subs went down to dreggs, it's punishment to watch, the Amateur engineers of 42 subs remain amateur, bye bye 42


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AloEuro* 
LATV on 42-1 has shown strong signal, no pixelation, with Daystar, Retro plus whatever - the subs coatailing LATV with solid signal.

Now LATV is gone, apparently the California technicians took away with them their secrets of making good broadcast and all 42 subs went down to dreggs, it's punishment to watch, the Amateur engineers of 42 subs remain amateur, bye bye 42
RTV will get destroyed once Antenna TV comes out. Dam shame they went cheap. Maybe move to 63?


----------



## AloEuro

Ch. 63-1 wMBCdt, also ch.18 goes to 63-1, 704x480i 30Hz Newton,NJ, Italy -Tg2,

rai, Korean mostly Infomercials.

63-2 MBN 640x480i 30Hz Korea broadcast

63-3 CGN - '' - '' (Christian Global News ?)

63-5 NTDTV -''- Chinese or is it Nippon ?

63-6 Azteca -''- Mexico

63-7 KCBN Audio Korean

63-8 WDNJ Audio radio Espanol


----------



## dvdchance

Seems 42 WKOB is borderline for me. Whats odd is that if I have my CFI desk lamp on it breaks up the picture totally. With the light off it's mostly fine.


I have an outdoor antenna and it's pluggen into a different outlet so why does it have such an effect? It is about 8 or so feet away from the TV.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19490406
> 
> 
> Seems 42 WKOB is borderline for me. Whats odd is that if I have my CFI desk lamp on it breaks up the picture totally. With the light off it's mostly fine.
> 
> 
> I have an outdoor antenna and it's pluggen into a different outlet so why does it have such an effect? It is about 8 or so feet away from the TV.



Ah, the joys of low-VHF. Just wait until your neighbor's vacuum cleaner or a thunderstorm within 20-50 miles pops up. You'll really love it then.


- Trip


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19491008
> 
> 
> Ah, the joys of low-VHF. Just wait until your neighbor's vacuum cleaner or a thunderstorm within 20-50 miles pops up. You'll really love it then.
> 
> 
> - Trip



DAH...I totally forgot that they are RF2.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19491008
> 
> 
> Ah, the joys of low-VHF. Just wait until your neighbor's vacuum cleaner or a thunderstorm within 20-50 miles pops up. You'll really love it then.
> 
> 
> - Trip



So he will have to sit in the DARK to watch channel 42? lol Or just wait for ANTENNA TV. On pix Jan 1st or 3rd


They will have similar shows no?


----------



## yobiworld

Any New On WASA???


----------



## welbyfan

I am in downtown Manhattan. Since I found out about Retro Television Network, I've been trying to receive this channel. I normally have time warner basic cable, but since this is an antenna channel, I unplugged the cable and plugged in a digital converter (my TV is pretty old) and a Terk antenna. Unfortunately, the digital converter could not automatically detect channel 42.3 at all. It is able to detect 42.1 and 42.2 fine. Ugh. Is there anyway around this? Or is the RTV network restricted to only certain areas of NYC? Thanks for your help.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *welbyfan* /forum/post/19493880
> 
> 
> I am in downtown Manhattan. Since I found out about Retro Television Network, I've been trying to receive this channel. I normally have time warner basic cable, but since this is an antenna channel, I unplugged the cable and plugged in a digital converter (my TV is pretty old) and a Terk antenna. Unfortunately, the digital converter could not automatically detect channel 42.3 at all. It is able to detect 42.1 and 42.2 fine. Ugh. Is there anyway around this? Or is the RTV network restricted to only certain areas of NYC? Thanks for your help.



if you get 42 then you should get ALL sub channels. Since it is the same signal. Can you Add 42.3 manually? Maybe that sub is down for work? I would keep trying tomorrow. Also try to add station manually if you can


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Perform a double re-scan on the converter box.


----------



## welbyfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19493899
> 
> 
> if you get 42 then you should get ALL sub channels. Since it is the same signal. Can you Add 42.3 manually? Maybe that sub is down for work? I would keep trying tomorrow. Also try to add station manually if you can



This cheap little digital converter box I have does not allow me to add channels manually. I will try tomorrow again. If it doesn't work, I will have to return my antenna. Are you currently able to get 42.3?


----------



## welbyfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/19493931
> 
> 
> Perform a double re-scan on the converter box.



Does that usually do the trick? Maybe I should do it tomorrow just in case that channel is down right now. When I manually enter 42.3 on the remote control, the TV says "no signal"


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19491818
> 
> 
> So he will have to sit in the DARK to watch channel 42? lol



You laugh, but my local PBS here on channel 3 tells people to go get satellite to watch it because every little thing interferes with it. Lightning is the worst offender where I am, as the summers are full of thunderstorms.



> Quote:
> Or just wait for ANTENNA TV. On pix Jan 1st or 3rd
> 
> 
> They will have similar shows no?



Newer shows overall, I think. Could be wrong.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *welbyfan* /forum/post/19493972
> 
> 
> This cheap little digital converter box I have does not allow me to add channels manually. I will try tomorrow again. If it doesn't work, I will have to return my antenna. Are you currently able to get 42.3?



No we can not get 42 at all. BUT if you get one Channel you get all SUBS it is same signal


What box do you have?


----------



## yobiworld

I live in the bronx i cant get 42


----------



## welbyfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21* 
No we can not get 42 at all. BUT if you get one Channel you get all SUBS it is same signal


What box do you have?
I have a Tivax converter box. Brought it a few years ago during the DTV conversion with that $40 coupon.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *welbyfan* /forum/post/19495401
> 
> 
> I have a Tivax converter box. Brought it a few years ago during the DTV conversion with that $40 coupon.



Well there are better people to answer you on this questions then me. But as far as I know. A channel and all the subs are on one carrier signal. Your box breaks it down to sub-channels. That is why 4.1 4.2 4.4 are all the same signal strength for example. So if you get 42.1 you should get EVERY SUB. Unless that channel took it down for work ect.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19499904
> 
> 
> So if you get 42.1 you should get EVERY SUB. Unless that channel took it down for work ect.



In theory, this is correct. Unless a station has screwed up its signal so badly that the box cannot make sense of it, or can only make sense of pieces of it.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19500019
> 
> 
> In theory, this is correct. Unless a station has screwed up its signal so badly that the box cannot make sense of it, or can only make sense of pieces of it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks trip.


Trip is the type of poster I was talking about. When I said others know better then me.


If trip says it. Take it to the bank.


Are others getting RTV at all?


----------



## jam-h

Hi,


Curious. Do you record (SD) off 5.1 or 5.2 / 9.1 or 9.2 ?


Happened to have a single incident of weirdness on a Magnavox DVD recorder (ATSC tuner, records in SD) recording/locking onto the timer programmed for FOX 5.1 one day last week (signal strength was fine, etc.).


And it got me thinking that I chose 5.1 only because it came first numerically.


Only online info I could find was Wikipedia, listing the 5.1 as 720p/16:9 on Ch.44 and 5.2 as 480i/4:3 on Ch.38, and the reciprocal deal for sister WWOR 9.1/9.2. Shouldn't make a difference for an SD recording, should it? I mean it would be either a 16:9 show letterboxed to 4:3 by the recorder, or a 4:3 shown as a letterboxed WS show, recorded looking the same...


------


PS as for the Ch 42 RTV questions I see. Yes I get it half of the time. With a bad audio delay almost all of the time. (All with a roof antenna pointed towards ESB - where do they transmit? Didn't see a listing on antennaweb or tvfool last time I checked.)


----------



## tahoejoe

I use 5.1 on both my Polaroid OTA ATSC tuner and the Magnavox using FIOS QAM. It just looks significantly sharper to me and is 16:9 as opposed to 5.2 4:3.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jam-h* /forum/post/19500664
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Curious. Do you record (SD) off 5.1 or 5.2 / 9.1 or 9.2 ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jam-h* /forum/post/19500664
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Curious. Do you record (SD) off 5.1 or 5.2 / 9.1 or 9.2 ?
> 
> 
> Happened to have a single incident of weirdness on a Magnavox DVD recorder (ATSC tuner, records in SD) recording/locking onto the timer programmed for FOX 5.1 one day last week (signal strength was fine, etc.).
> 
> 
> And it got me thinking that I chose 5.1 only because it came first numerically.
> 
> 
> Only online info I could find was Wikipedia, listing the 5.1 as 720p/16:9 on Ch.44 and 5.2 as 480i/4:3 on Ch.38, and the reciprocal deal for sister WWOR 9.1/9.2. Shouldn't make a difference for an SD recording, should it? I mean it would be either a 16:9 show letterboxed to 4:3 by the recorder, or a 4:3 shown as a letterboxed WS show, recorded looking the same...
> 
> 
> ------
> 
> 
> PS as for the Ch 42 RTV questions I see. Yes I get it half of the time. With a bad audio delay almost all of the time. (All with a roof antenna pointed towards ESB - where do they transmit? Didn't see a listing on antennaweb or tvfool last time I checked.)



If I remember right. Trump building on 58th or 68th? Something like that. Ask trip he knows


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...Tower+%28NY%29 


- Trip


----------



## jam-h

Hey thanks for the location info. Looks like WKOB is only a couple of degrees off the ESB direction from my location, so probably as good as it will get with the current antenna.


And thanks for the 5.1 5.2 comment. Good idea. Think I'm gonna record both ways and see if I can see the PQ difference too...


----------



## raj2001

5.2/9.2 appear to be lower quality than 5.1/9.1 when viewed on my Apex DT250 and 27 inch standard def set (circa 2002). But they are more than acceptable.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19505558
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...Tower+%28NY%29
> 
> 
> - Trip



make that 47 st


----------



## tbal2000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19490406
> 
> 
> Seems 42 WKOB is borderline for me. Whats odd is that if I have my CFI desk lamp on it breaks up the picture totally. With the light off it's mostly fine.
> 
> 
> I have an outdoor antenna and it's pluggen into a different outlet so why does it have such an effect? It is about 8 or so feet away from the TV.



Possibly, if I recharge my Craftsman 19.2 volt NICads with the TV on it wipes out channels 7-13 and interferes with the others. Doesn't seem to be a problem when recharging DEwalt 14v's.. Go figure


----------



## Anthony_R

Help! I have a friend who lives in lower Manhattan (in SoHo) and she claims she can't get OTA reception! She has an HDTV set and says she has a digital ATSC antenna, but all she gets is static. She says that she has been to all the stores (Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc.) and the sales help all claim that there is nothing that can be done, that it is a hit-or-miss thing, you either get it or you don't. But I can't believe that. I live in Brooklyn/Queens, and my OTA antenna (inside my apt. on top of my DVD player, pointed toward the window) has no trouble getting channels 2-13 plus several others. Is it possible these store "experts" are wrong? My friend was insistent that she cannot get OTA reception and has given up on the idea. So my question is: has anybody had a similar experience in lower Manhattan (preferably near or in SoHo), but then suddenly found a solution? Maybe a particular antenna or placement? It's amazing to me that at the end of 2010 in Manhattan, there are people who can't get OTA reception, even when they live within eyesight of the Empire State Building. TIA!!


----------



## SnellKrell

First, in reality, there's no such thing as "a digital ATSC antenna." To simplify things, there are: UHF antennas, VHF antennas and combinations of those two types.


I'm assuming that she's using an indoor antenna - to start with, it should be aimed toward the Empire State Building.


Does her HDTV have a "Signal Strength" option? It should! That would help in positioning the antenna.


You also might want to help your friend to make sure that her HDTV is set for an "Antenna" input vs. "Cable." Once that's completed, the HDTV should then be set to do a scan of channels.


She really should be getting something!


----------



## peterlee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anthony_R* /forum/post/19510123
> 
> 
> Help! I have a friend who lives in lower Manhattan (in SoHo) and she claims she can't get OTA reception! She has an HDTV set and says she has a digital ATSC antenna, but all she gets is static.



As *SnellKrell* hinted at in his post, has your friend gone into the HDTV menu and selected the option to scan for digital channels? Reading your post, I get the sneaking feeling that your friend has attached the antenna and turned on the set and expected a picture to appear. Perhaps she doesn't realize or has overlooked the need to have the TV scan for digital channels before it can receive them. Ask your friend if she has done so and let us know. As you said, assuming the tuner in her TV set isn't defective - a remote possibility - it is hard to imagine why someone with a line-of-sight view of the Empire State Building wouldn't be able to pick up channels.


----------



## michaelscott73

Has there been any discussion on this recently (picture quality)? I can only find older discussion comparing cable and I'm sure things have changed since 2008.


----------



## DTVintermods

Check it out:
http://broadcastengineering.com/RF/p...ployment-1118/ 

Possibly LTE technology. The next DTV std that works for SFN and mobile?


----------



## Aero 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by *michaelscott73* 
Has there been any discussion on this recently (picture quality)? I can only find older discussion comparing cable and I'm sure things have changed since 2008.
i cut fios a couple of months ago and went ota. i see a big difference, ota hands down blows fios out of the water, or how ever you say that cliche.


now mind you, i have a 35 foot high, chimney mounted, hi-vhf antenna joined with a uhf antenna with a completely clear line of site to the empire state building from my roof 15 miles away. i get 90 - 100 signal strength on all 3 tivos and a dual hdhomerun.


basically, your mileage may vary.


----------



## AloEuro

Quote:

Originally Posted by *welbyfan* 
This cheap little digital converter box I have does not allow me to add channels manually. I will try tomorrow again. If it doesn't work, I will have to return my antenna. Are you currently able to get 42.3?
That cheap little box you complain about does everything the wall to wall HD DTV does except at 480i rather than blu ray type, that's why you pay more $$$ for HD DTV, far superior to Analog-has-been.

I have iNetAccess Tivax clone, your Tivax 9or8 is one of the best converter boxes, you punch manually any ch.number - you must get picture before you ADD Scan, without picture there is no signal, blame the Antena not the box.

42-1or2 and -3 Retro -4 those nasty color bars, surprisingly has good solid signal


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/19513417
> 
> 
> i cut fios a couple of months ago and went ota. i see a big difference, ota hands down blows fios out of the water, or how ever you say that cliche.
> 
> 
> now mind you, i have a 35 foot high, chimney mounted, hi-vhf antenna joined with a uhf antenna with a completely clear line of site to the empire state building from my roof 15 miles away. i get 90 - 100 signal strength on all 3 tivos and a dual hdhomerun.
> 
> 
> basically, your mileage may vary.



i've seen OTA side by side by side with fios and cablevision. as far as hd local channels is concerned, they look identical and with test equipment proof that bandwith is very close. on downconverted 480i locals, there is a visible difference with quality and bandwith based on how the respective cable companies convert hd to sd.


----------



## jam-h




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19506035
> 
> 
> 5.2/9.2 appear to be lower quality than 5.1/9.1 when viewed on my Apex DT250 and 27 inch standard def set (circa 2002). But they are more than acceptable.



My eyes agree. Guess maybe downconverting still leaves more information than straight 480i.


After more experimentation found that for some reason the tuner/dvr just doesn't like the to initiate a recording on physical channel 44's digital 5.1/9.2, even though the signal strength is the same as 38 (9.1/5.2).


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/19513417
> 
> 
> i cut fios a couple of months ago and went ota. i see a big difference, ota hands down blows fios out of the water, or how ever you say that cliche.
> 
> 
> now mind you, i have a 35 foot high, chimney mounted, hi-vhf antenna joined with a uhf antenna with a completely clear line of site to the empire state building from my roof 15 miles away. i get 90 - 100 signal strength on all 3 tivos and a dual hdhomerun.
> 
> 
> basically, your mileage may vary.



your antenna size and height offer no advantage to a small indoor that can receive the signals.

if your signal strength is high enough to lock, being above 90 won't give you any better picture than if you had solid 75.


i compare OTA to cablevision and see no difference as well


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *michaelscott73* /forum/post/19512932
> 
> 
> Has there been any discussion on this recently (picture quality)? I can only find older discussion comparing cable and I'm sure things have changed since 2008.



Local signals will be identical to that received OTA. Last I heard FiOS doesn't do more than 2 HD per QAM.


Many cable providers also leave local HD channels alone and don't recompress.


----------



## AloEuro

It seems that many broadcasters have worked on their ouput the signals are stronger, the ch. watchable, like 40/41-1,2 Univision, but sometime around 1Am morning they shut off.


----------



## steve-avs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jam-h* /forum/post/19517591
> 
> 
> After more experimentation found that for some reason the tuner/dvr just doesn't like the to initiate a recording on physical channel 44's digital 5.1/9.2, even though the signal strength is the same as 38 (9.1/5.2).



The Funai firmware does not work well with News Corps chosen mapping of channels in NYC. If you delete channel 5.2, then recordings set for 5.1 will work. I think the problem arises from the fact that 5.2 has a lower RF channel (Ch. 38) than than 5.1 (Ch. 44).


----------



## Keith

Now there is talk that "Me-TV" ( http://metvnetwork.com )


is going national starting in January.

http://www.wciu.com/about.php?sectio...s&releaseID=30


----------



## jam-h




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steve-avs* /forum/post/19530065
> 
> 
> The Funai firmware does not work well with News Corps chosen mapping of channels in NYC. If you delete channel 5.2, then recordings set for 5.1 will work. I think the problem arises from the fact that 5.2 has a lower RF channel (Ch. 38) than than 5.1 (Ch. 44).



RE: problems with recording off OTA virtual channels in NYC area 5.1(44) or 5.2 (38) and 9.1(38) or 9.2(44)


Thanks for the info. I attempted myself, then tried to extract a workable delete procedure from the Magnavox sticky, and well nothing quite worked. Either the group deleted or an all-the-time "blank" 5.1 was left.


UPDATE: The seniors in the Magnavox thread pointed me towards terms like "virtualization symptoms" and "tuning interference" originally in cable TV situations.


In my case manually deleting 5 and 9, then adding back the physical 44 and 38 (which the system identified as only the x.1 subchannel), left the Magnavox with _only_ the (better PQ) channels 5.1 and 9.1 (for recording and for +/- channel navigation).


----------



## LenL

As you folks may remember, last year around this time my Channel Master 4228 antenna was no longer picking up the signal for WCBS TV 2.1 (broadcast from the Empire State Building) at the usual 90+ %. All the other stations were locked in just fine with no unusual drop in signal. It was not until around April of 2010 that the signal got back up to the 90+ range. My back up antenna was an old UHF bowtie that I could switch to but that also experienced the same issue.


Well it happened again this year. Within the past week the signal dropped again on the CM4228.


The good news and relevance to this forum is that instead of that bowtie UHF antenna as a backup to the CM4228, I have my recent homebuilt GH6 (Grey-Hoverman) with Narods. Well I am happy to report that WCBS TV 2.1 did not lose any signal strength on the GH6 at all. All channels remain locked in really well.


I guess it is an unexplained local anomally for me but the GH6 has proven to be a great build for us amatures and better than the professionally marketed antennas out there. Even the great CM4228 is being out performed.


Don't know if it is the leaves, the weather or something else. But the homebuilt is picking up 2.1 just fine.


----------



## J_ph

Hi Len


I'm a town away from you, and have similar gear - CM4228HD/CM7777 ( your posts were helpful in my decision of which hardware). Unfortunately I don't have a TV that reports signal strength but 2.1 seem to be OK for me, I haven't noticed any changes.


but... what I don't get is 13.1, how is this signal for you?


I think I need to climb up on the roof again before the snow arrives.


regards


j


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/19530983
> 
> 
> Now there is talk that "Me-TV" ( http://metvnetwork.com )
> 
> 
> is going national starting in January.
> 
> http://www.wciu.com/about.php?sectio...s&releaseID=30



We like new stations. Thanks for the heads up. Now I got to see what type of programs it has. Better not be 24 hour infomercials










EDIT: Well they don't give a list of programs that they will have, but the teaser video shows old tv programs. Like Antenna tv and RTV.


What is the sudden urge to re-broadcast old tv? We have enough of that now. How about a news station?


3 TV channels showing CLASSIC TV is too much of the same thing IMO. Even cable companys have only 1 TV LAND.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/19533381
> 
> 
> Hi Len
> 
> 
> I'm a town away from you, and have similar gear - CM4228HD/CM7777 ( your posts were helpful in my decision of which hardware). Unfortunately I don't have a TV that reports signal strength but 2.1 seem to be OK for me, I haven't noticed any changes.
> 
> 
> but... what I don't get is 13.1, how is this signal for you?
> 
> 
> I think I need to climb up on the roof again before the snow arrives.
> 
> 
> regards
> 
> 
> j



You probably have to go into your TV setup and while on each channel separately it will give you the signal strength. Check your TV documentation.


In my case I run the feeds from both antennas into 2 DTVPAL digital TV recording boxes which actually hold the signal a bit better than my SHARP TV tuner and I can record shows from each antenna. Also this way I am using the same tool to measure the signal as the DTVPAL will provide signal strength as soon as you go to a channel.


My GH6 does not get 13.1 very well. It has a stregth of 61%. I have not designed it for 13.1 and will need to make a modification. However I do get 13.1 on my CM 4228 much better at 73%.


2.1 is 98% on my GH6 and 76% with some breakup on my CM4228.


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19534332
> 
> 
> We like new stations. Thanks for the heads up. Now I got to see what type of programs it has. Better not be 24 hour infomercials
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Well they don't give a list of programs that they will have, but the teaser video shows old tv programs. Like Antenna tv and RTV.
> 
> 
> What is the sudden urge to re-broadcast old tv? We have enough of that now. How about a news station?
> 
> 
> 3 TV channels showing CLASSIC TV is too much of the same thing IMO. Even cable companys have only 1 TV LAND.



Wow, I thought ThisTV had completely replaced MeTV. Weigel Broadcasting is an owner of both.


----------



## dtv_junkie87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19534332
> 
> 
> We like new stations. Thanks for the heads up. Now I got to see what type of programs it has. Better not be 24 hour infomercials
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Well they don't give a list of programs that they will have, but the teaser video shows old tv programs. Like Antenna tv and RTV.
> 
> 
> What is the sudden urge to re-broadcast old tv? We have enough of that now. How about a news station?
> 
> 
> 3 TV channels showing CLASSIC TV is too much of the same thing IMO. Even cable companys have only 1 TV LAND.



Yeah, I love it when we get new subchannels, too!










However, if you look at this link ( http://www.metvnetwork.com/metv_schedule.pdf ) you can get a glimpse of what MeTV might play when they go national.


And besides, extra channels of classic TV is a fantastic thing! To sum it all up, TV Land (plus the *ENTIRE* cable and satellite system) is just plain unwatchable now. It's a new decade, and oddly enough, antenna is the future!


----------



## yobiworld

So when Are they gonna start showing programing on Wasa


----------



## JoeWS

WWOR Channel 9 was always a solid signal here in Burlington County - about 60 miles SW of NYC. I have not been able to get anything for the last few weeks. Does anyone know what's up with their signal?


----------



## xxagon

Hi guys....Short question.

Is anyone else getting a serious audio lag on WLNY 45.1?

Is it my STB or is this station signal?


Thanks


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19533097
> 
> 
> As you folks may remember, last year around this time my Channel Master 4228 antenna was no longer picking up the signal for WCBS TV 2.1 (broadcast from the Empire State Building) at the usual 90+ %. All the other stations were locked in just fine with no unusual drop in signal. It was not until around April of 2010 that the signal got back up to the 90+ range. My back up antenna was an old UHF bowtie that I could switch to but that also experienced the same issue.
> 
> 
> Well it happened again this year. Within the past week the signal dropped again on the CM4228.
> 
> 
> The good news and relevance to this forum is that instead of that bowtie UHF antenna as a backup to the CM4228, I have my recent homebuilt GH6 (Grey-Hoverman) with Narods. Well I am happy to report that WCBS TV 2.1 did not lose any signal strength on the GH6 at all. All channels remain locked in really well.
> 
> 
> I guess it is an unexplained local anomally for me but the GH6 has proven to be a great build for us amatures and better than the professionally marketed antennas out there. Even the great CM4228 is being out performed.
> 
> 
> Don't know if it is the leaves, the weather or something else. But the homebuilt is picking up 2.1 just fine.




Must be a local anomaly to you because 33/2.1 is just fine here. 90+ signal and 100% on the quality scale (HDHomeRun).


As for the GH, is yours a double bay or single bay? I'd rather compare the double bay to a pair of stacked 4228s. I have a pair of stacked 4228s and they perform excellent.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeWS* /forum/post/19541585
> 
> 
> WWOR Channel 9 was always a solid signal here in Burlington County - about 60 miles SW of NYC. I have not been able to get anything for the last few weeks. Does anyone know what's up with their signal?



I've noticed they are a bit weaker now but I thought it was just me.


----------



## LenL

My GH6 is a single. Like I said it still gets 2.1 just fine but the CM4228 has now lost the signal strength from mid 90s to low to mid 70s with some signal loss and pixilation just like happened this time last year. Must be something with where it is mounted and my particular location although it is about 15 feet higher up than the GH6.


As for 9.1 I have not noticed anything but I almost never view that channel. I usually get it in the 80% or better signal strength. I checked last on 11/22 when I was checking signal on all channels and it was at 90% on my GH6 and 86% on the CM4228.


Funny how we all seem to have these different issues come up often isolated to our locations. In my case even to the different antennas.


Regarding a double GH6 I did build one using wood and as a trial run. The plan was to put it in the attic and have one antenna indoors. The build went fine put I soon discovered that it was vertically too big to fit in the attic. Since it was a wood frame it was not going to go outside either. I could not even put it side by side in the attic properly. So the parts will be put to use in the spring when I build another single or maybe a double. I'm not sure I will benefit from a double that much as the channels I usually watch are good on the single and with the CM4228 I have another source.


So why build another one you might ask? Well I do have 3 TVs and I would like to add another antenna so I am not splitting the signal so much.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xxagon* /forum/post/19542288
> 
> 
> Hi guys....Short question.
> 
> Is anyone else getting a serious audio lag on WLNY 45.1?
> 
> Is it my STB or is this station signal?
> 
> 
> Thanks



just came from my aunts. 45.1 is just fine no audio lag ect


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/19530983
> 
> 
> Now there is talk that "Me-TV" ( http://metvnetwork.com )
> 
> 
> is going national starting in January.
> 
> http://www.wciu.com/about.php?sectio...s&releaseID=30



Thank you for posting the thread, really huge line up of old shows, when bored with the new format and not so funny anymore lines of present shows, the oldies are showing what the TV was like yesteryear.


----------



## AloEuro

ch.42 - what a mess, so unreliable, for few days good signal, even Retro having both V/A

you begin to think highly about them, then next few days they are maybe in Pensylvania.

Now again ch. 42 are causing troubles to CBS forced to 2-3


----------



## keyboard21

Does anyone get show information on channel 45.1?


I mean more then the show name. Show description (what the show is about)


Even though we get TV GUIDE info from CBS and the guide on our dish box shows it is getting TV guide. Many stations including 45.1 say NO information. Under show info.


It is a shame because of the movies they show at night. Would be nice to know what the movie is about. So we can record it. If we like it.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19559818
> 
> 
> Does anyone get show information on channel 45.1?
> 
> 
> I mean more then the show name. Show description (what the show is about)
> 
> 
> Even though we get TV GUIDE info from CBS and the guide on our dish box shows it is getting TV guide. Many stations including 45.1 say NO information. Under show info.
> 
> 
> It is a shame because of the movies they show at night. Would be nice to know what the movie is about. So we can record it. If we like it.



I do not watch it that often, the usul CBS line up or reruns of DR.Phil, Judge Judy are shown in Prime time 8-11 time slots, sometime weekend late show-movies, if you like it, you watch what they give you - some boxes give only name-time shows.

Some conv. boxes like iNet/Tivax give both Video/Audio of 10/55 on 45-1 Audio only on 45-3, other boxes give only Audio - no Video on 45-1


----------



## AloEuro

Add on Scan did not find ch.35-1 the signal is too weak 0-15-25-30 down to 0 etc. but Manual Scan showing little signal allows to ADD/Delete the channel, signal is too weak,

Jscobson Broadcasting on .com ,

You do not miss anything


----------



## rothe

I've been off of this forum for a while - too many other "new" old-house projects - but I managed to relocate my antenna from the attic to the roof over the weekend. I'm in Ocean Grove, 37 miles due south of the ESB, about a half-mile inland from the beach. Here's the TV Fool report of what I should be getting:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...81a321d2806f97 


The whole point of relocating the antenna to the roof was to try to pick up WNET, but I still have a horrid signal. All of the other ESB transmissions come in fine, with the exception of WXTV.


Interestingly, I can also pick up WMBC, WNJN, WLIW and even WWSI out of Atlantic City! These are all strong and solid enough for my HTPC tuners to get a consistent, error-free signal.


The last time that I was active on this forum, I posted some spectrum analyzer screen shots to my web site:

http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/attic/index.html 


I took a quick look at the spectrum analyzer yesterday, after the move, and nothing much has changed. As expected, some signals are a few db stronger, but channel 13 still has pretty much the same rolled-off signal as before. (See http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/att...manalysis.html for the old chart.)


I'll post an update of these charts within the next few days.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/19562386
> 
> 
> I've been off of this forum for a while - too many other "new" old-house projects - but I managed to relocate my antenna from the attic to the roof over the weekend. I'm in Ocean Grove, 37 miles due south of the ESB, about a half-mile inland from the beach. Here's the TV Fool report of what I should be getting:
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...81a321d2806f97
> 
> 
> The whole point of relocating the antenna to the roof was to try to pick up WNET, but I still have a horrid signal. All of the other ESB transmissions come in fine, with the exception of WXTV.
> 
> 
> Interestingly, I can also pick up WMBC, WNJN, WLIW and even WWSI out of Atlantic City! These are all strong and solid enough for my HTPC tuners to get a consistent, error-free signal.
> 
> 
> The last time that I was active on this forum, I posted some spectrum analyzer screen shots to my web site:
> 
> http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/attic/index.html
> 
> 
> I took a quick look at the spectrum analyzer yesterday, after the move, and nothing much has changed. As expected, some signals are a few db stronger, but channel 13 still has pretty much the same rolled-off signal as before. (See http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/att...manalysis.html for the old chart.)
> 
> 
> I'll post an update of these charts within the next few days.



Do you still have the amp hooked up? I would just try the antenna alone without the amp and see what you get. Also eliminate any splitters if you have them.

Also those readings with the spectrum analyzer, were they taken close to the antenna or after the amp?


----------



## Digital Rules

I second trying without the preamp to one TV. I would think an FM trapped 7698 should do better on VHF 13 at your location. The only other thing I can think of would the antenna being too close to a metal object.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Do you still have the amp hooked up? I would just try the antenna alone without the amp and see what you get. Also eliminate any splitters if you have them.
> 
> 
> Also those readings with the spectrum analyzer, were they taken close to the antenna or after the amp?



Yes, the amp is still hooked up. Those readings were after a trap and the amp. But they were before any splitters.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/19563213
> 
> 
> I second trying without the preamp to one TV. I would think an FM trapped 7698 should do better on VHF 13 at your location.



I'll get another look at all of this without either the trap or the amp, and then with the trap back in but no amp, and then with both in line. From what I've seen so far, I don't expect any eye-openers, but then again I haven't actually charted the differences.



> Quote:
> The only other thing I can think of would the antenna being too close to a metal object.



That has certainly been a factor into why I finally moved the antenna out of the attic. One really-out-there anomaly that I noticed over the months was that I could actually tell when my gutters were clogged by the error rates that I was getting when it rained. Think about it - the attic-mounted antenna was looking through the eve of the attic, but it was buffered on both sides by roofing and then gutters. If there were leaves in the gutters and the gutter could partially fill up with water, it was just like running a five-inch-thick reflector next to the antenna. Cleaning out the gutter - and getting a soaking in the process when the dam broke! - immediately alleviated the reception issues of that day. But then, that only happened once. Now I clean my gutters more often - when they're dry! - besides having a new antenna location.


With the current roof-mounted setup, the antenna is far removed from any metallic structures or wiring. Or rivers of water.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19562301
> 
> 
> I do not watch it that often, the usul CBS line up or reruns of DR.Phil, Judge Judy are shown in Prime time 8-11 time slots, sometime weekend late show-movies, if you like it, you watch what they give you - some boxes give only name-time shows.
> 
> Some conv. boxes like iNet/Tivax give both Video/Audio of 10/55 on 45-1 Audio only on 45-3, other boxes give only Audio - no Video on 45-1



No we are using the $300 Dish pal DVR. Got it on fire sale at Sears.


It has TVGUIDE info. Not just PSIP. All the major stations have show name and show description.


We like some of the late movies. We want to record them. Hard to do with just a name? I mean you don't know if you will like it.


That is why I asked if anyone got Show Decriptions on 45.1 Thinking it could be my box. I doubt it though.


I do not get 45.3 or any subs on my box. Just 45.1 what subs are on 45?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/19563405
> 
> 
> Yes, the amp is still hooked up. Those readings were after a trap and the amp. But they were before any splitters.
> 
> 
> I'll get another look at all of this without either the trap or the amp, and then with the trap back in but no amp, and then with both in line. From what I've seen so far, I don't expect any eye-openers, but then again I haven't actually charted the differences.



I always try to get the "raw" signal as close as possible to the antenna. I actually bring my laptop up to the roof with a tuner stick with a 2 foot coax.

This way I eliminate any possible problems with cabling, splitters or amps.


----------



## 2VW

Don't give up. I'm 52 air miles from Empire in 08722. 13 comes in ok here even without a really good antenna. I have a telescoping tower and can put the TV antenna anywhere from 26' to 82'. The height does make marginal stations more reliable but there's plenty to see with the tower nested.


----------



## usernaim

Hi, I live in Washington Heights between the GWB and the Hospital. Third floor of a six floor building, in a neighborhood full of six floor buildings, and line of sight to the bridge (i.e. the opposite of ESB).


If I buy an HDTV, will I be able to get all the major stations? Will I need an antenna? Will I need cable?


Thanks. 444 pages is too many to read through!


----------



## SnellKrell

Sorry, really impossible to answer!


Have you checked with your neighbors? Have any of them had luck with an antenna -

indoors or outdoors?


Even with that information, with what might work for the person living next door might not work for you.


Could you install an antenna on your roof?


If not, try an indoor antenna that could be returned if it doesn't work for you.


You may very well have to get cable - but at least you tried an antenna.


Wish you well!


----------



## usernaim

3


----------



## usernaim

Thanks, no rooftop antenna will be possible.


Any idea of the odds I face? I was hoping to get rid of cable for OTA.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usernaim* /forum/post/19582705
> 
> 
> Hi, I live in Washington Heights between the GWB and the Hospital. Third floor of a six floor building, in a neighborhood full of six floor buildings, and line of sight to the bridge (i.e. the opposite of ESB).
> 
> 
> If I buy an HDTV, will I be able to get all the major stations? Will I need an antenna? Will I need cable?
> 
> 
> Thanks. 444 pages is too many to read through!



Do you have an HDTV now? If so, you can buy an indoor budget antenna from Radio Shack like this and test it out. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103077 


You can return it if it does not work out.


If you don't have an HDTV, see if you can borrow someones, or if they possibly have an OTA converter box.

You are close to the ESB. Even with no line of sight, the signals can reflect off structures, like buildings and bridges.


----------



## LenL

USERNAIM,


None of us can answer your question as there are far too many variables. I will say that I am 30 miles out from the ESB with a number of obstacles and when I experiment with an indoor antenna I can get a few stations. I think odds are pretty good for you to do much better. It can only be determined by you trying.


----------



## AloEuro

" I do not get 45.3 or any subs on my box. Just 45.1 what subs are on 45? "

10/55 on 45-1 both Video/Audio solid signal (Another conv. box gives on 45-1 only Audio and blank screen) on weekends late night they give some good old movies.

45-3 is really blank screen, the only time I get it when surfing Up/Down chan. it has no Video,beacause it is blank I assumed it has Audio, but really I d'nt know for sure, to know I would have to spent 5 long minutes staring at blank screen like ( The men who stare at goats-movie)


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usernaim* /forum/post/19584383
> 
> 
> Thanks, no rooftop antenna will be possible.
> 
> 
> Any idea of the odds I face? I was hoping to get rid of cable for OTA.



Buy used - or pick up from streets - inxpensive Analog TV, get Converter box maybe even on AVForum, all under $100, get some rabbits to sit on TV, experiment before you decide to buy your wall to wall HD DTV, see what happens


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usernaim* /forum/post/19584383
> 
> 
> Thanks, no rooftop antenna will be possible.
> 
> 
> Any idea of the odds I face? I was hoping to get rid of cable for OTA.



I would try antenna's Go to H&H or J&R. So if they don't work out you can return them. If you find something that works. Amazon and online seems to have better prices. This will be trial and error. I remember a member here who lived in your area. He tried a Terk -55 because it works so great for us in queens. It failed miserably for him. So I do not recommended you get that one. What works for us might not work for you. All trial and error.


I would start by looking here. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779 


Of course what worked for this guy. Does not mean it will for you. As I always said this is more of an art form then science. imo


I would suggest you try an small out door antenna, indoors. The ClearStream C2 (small enough for indoors)or C4 (if you can fit it in your apt)


Both these are made to mount on a mast. Since I doubt you have a mast inside your apartment. You can try what I did. I went to home depot and bought a wood stick. that is used in closest to hang clothes. I went about 6 or 7 foot. they cut it to size for me. I put the antenna and stick. Behind furniture. Plus you can mount it high or low on the stick to see what works best.


Also whatever you get. You should buy and use Rg6 coax wire from antenna to tv/box It saves signal. I found Best buy had terk RG6 HD coax wire for the lowest price point.


Good Luck


PS I found the cheaper antenna to be garbage.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19587779
> 
> 
> Buy used - or pick up from streets - inxpensive Analog TV, get Converter box maybe even on AVForum, all under $100, get some rabbits to sit on TV, experiment before you decide to buy your wall to wall HD DTV, see what happens



He doesn't own a tv?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19588073
> 
> 
> He doesn't own a tv?



he does, he wants to cut the cord. usernaim if i was you and really want to get over the air. i would borrow a pair of rabbitears and see what you can receive, there is no doubt in my mind, you will get what you seek. i have similar situation like you have, i live in ground floor apartment surrounded by six story bldgs. i use indoor antenna a small rabbitears and i can get most of dtv station with no problem. one caveat you have is that you have line of sight to njn pbs stations. like the saying goes you never know till you try good luck


----------



## R.F. Burns

Did WNJB do anything? For the past few months I've been receiving both WNJB & WNJM at my house north of NYC. I started receiving WNJB on a regular basis prior to the leaves dropping from the trees. My antenna is attic mounted and split nearly a dozen ways to seperate feeds for multiple TV's, DVD recorders and FM receivers. Initially I thought enhancement was the reason but reception has been solid for a few months now and since NJN has decided not to move their transmitter site to Conde Nast, I'm at a loss to explain this improvement.


----------



## raj2001

I am not sure about NJB but it's been about the same where I am.


----------



## NervousCat

Anyone happen to catch this article in the NY Times about OTA TV increasing in popularity?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/06/bu...abbitears.html


----------



## Trip in VA

WNJB was supposed to have bumped power from 17 to 21 kW, then again to 40 kW at some point.


- Trip


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/19607594
> 
> 
> Anyone happen to catch this article in the NY Times about OTA TV increasing in popularity?
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/06/bu...abbitears.html



Nitpicker that I am, the title bar shows the following:


"Digital TV Antennas Find Frugal Young Fans - NYTimes.com"


If Adolph Ochs were still running the place, I'm sure he'd ask his pal Marconi about the technical aptness of the phrase "Digital TV Antennas".


That aside, a mostly positive story about OTA. Now if Anthony and Julie Bayerl would move those "digital" rabbit ears closer to that window in the photo...


----------



## SnellKrell

If Adolph Ochs were still running the place, he'd be 152 years old!


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19608762
> 
> 
> If Adolph Ochs were still running the place, he'd be 152 years old!



...and I'd bet he still wouldn't have lost his southern accent after all those years. 


Unless you're a student of newspaper history (as am I), it's not widely known that the Father of the _New York Times_ was raised in Tennessee (and kept the regional accent distinctive to the eastern part of the state).


In fact, the first newspaper he owned was _The Chattanooga Times_ prior to acquiring its little brother paper in New York.


----------



## SnellKrell

Boy, could we use him now at The Times!


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *re_nelson* /forum/post/19608710
> 
> 
> That aside, a mostly positive story about OTA. Now if Anthony and Julie Bayerl would move those "digital" rabbit ears closer to that window in the photo...



Here's Pete Putman's take on cord cutting...

http://displaydaily.com/2010/12/06/c...-or-imaginary/


----------



## Greg2600

These articles are leaving out a big issue, the same one that caused the Fox/Cablevision fight. The networks are tiring of the free-web viewing model. They want more money. Fox in particularly has pulled more and more from free view, pushing to get those shows on cable/sat VOD instead. Basically to say to those providers that the only way people can view these shows is on your VOD, so pay us more for the exclusivity.


Not only that, but the providers have made those basic cable packages so cheap now, that they are basically free when added to one of their phone and/or internet packages. My friend was going to drop TV from Comcast, but the cost of internet alone was far higher without a bundle. The bundle price made it foolish for him not to keep TV and not worry about reception issues.


Cable companies should not be worried about Netflix/iTunes-only people. They have lost subs due to the economy, but by them offering bare bones package bundles, they'll be fine. OTA-only is a much nicer alternative than it was pre-digital, but you don't say that much money.


----------



## Trip in VA

Whoa.


When did WRNN-LD 26, WXNY-LD 32, and WNYX-LD 35 sign on? And raj2001, any chance you can try to snag them with TSReader at some point?


I snagged the ID slide for 32 from SiliconDust, and I've attached it.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19618495
> 
> 
> Whoa.
> 
> 
> When did WRNN-LD 26, WXNY-LD 32, and WNYX-LD 35 sign on? And raj2001, any chance you can try to snag them with TSReader at some point?
> 
> 
> I snagged the ID slide for 32 from SiliconDust, and I've attached it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip, any chance you'll be up here for holidays, we can get together


grab a beer, pizza. not neccessarily in that order lol


----------



## Trip in VA

Yeah, I'm planning to come up for a visit probably after Christmas and before the New Year. I don't drink, but otherwise, sounds fun.










Things aren't nailed down yet, so we'll have to wait and see a bit.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

anybody read this amusing article on antennas direct "why antennas are sexy" link

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...are-sexy-again


----------



## LenL

Went to your link and got an "under construction".


Some reception items of note. All of a sudden NBC 4.1 is one of my channels now with reception in the mid 90s. It used to be in the mid 70s. On the other hand CBS seems to be dropping from the mid 90's to the 80's.


Not sure if this is weather related or work going on at the ESB.


I know the air is very very dry with dew points in the single digits. So maybe this is impacting reception in a variety of ways with some channels getting stronger and others weaker.


----------



## AloEuro

Lately wABC 7-1,2,3 sometime drops signal from 95 - 5 - 0 no signal and up and down, is there anything other than Nightline worthy to watch ?


----------



## nycdigital09

I fixed the link to why tv antennas are sexy link http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...are-sexy-again 


Trip, sure hope you come out up here, to see as yanks. we'll have a swell time.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19624961
> 
> 
> Went to your link and got an "under construction".
> 
> 
> Some reception items of note. All of a sudden NBC 4.1 is one of my channels now with reception in the mid 90s. It used to be in the mid 70s. On the other hand CBS seems to be dropping from the mid 90's to the 80's.
> 
> 
> Not sure if this is weather related or work going on at the ESB.
> 
> 
> I know the air is very very dry with dew points in the single digits. So maybe this is impacting reception in a variety of ways with some channels getting stronger and others weaker.



Over-the-air has a magnitude of problems that most viewers have to try to overcome on daily basis, 1 of my pet peeve is that channel 2 cbs comes in pretty good all week long, but when cbs 2 shows the nfl on sunday afternoon is where I start to go nuts. the picture seems to be constantly breakin up, even rotating the antenna towards esb, is a moote point. I have a bias opinion that cbs 2 NY (rf 33) and wfsb cbs 3 (rf 33) out of hartford are turning up their signal and hence competing with each other. I have noticed this repeatly usually on sundays when football is being broadcasted, also I have noticed when march madness is on. i'm certain both stations are boosting up their signal levels somewhat, hence overload of signal, most often the picture goes out entirely, has anyone else noticed this freak occurence. Just when your think you got made in the shade, ota has the last word.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19627973
> 
> 
> Over-the-air has a magnitude of problems that most viewers have to try to overcome on daily basis, 1 of my pet peeve is that channel 2 cbs comes in pretty good all week long, but when cbs 2 shows the nfl on sunday afternoon is where I start to go nuts. the picture seems to be constantly breakin up, even rotating the antenna towards esb, is a moote point. I have a bias opinion that cbs 2 NY (rf 33) and wfsb cbs 3 (rf 33) out of hartford are turning up their signal and hence competing with each other. I have noticed this repeatly usually on sundays when football is being broadcasted, also I have noticed when march madness is on. i'm certain both stations are boosting up their signal levels somewhat, hence overload of signal, most often the picture goes out entirely, has anyone else noticed this freak occurence. Just when your think you got made in the shade, ota has the last word.



4.1 was weak for me this weak but now is back to full-strength. 2.1 was bad for me on Sundays for a few months but I readjusted my antenna and now the problem seems for now to have gone away. I am showing 100% for 2.1 now.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19625714
> 
> 
> I fixed the link to why tv antennas are sexy link http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...are-sexy-again




There was one quote in that interview with the owner of Antennas Direct that I found interesting:


> Quote:
> Yes, because here’s where our opportunity is: 80% of the population doesn’t even know you can get over-the-air HDTV. You tell people and they look at you like you’re crazy: "You’re saying I can actually get free HDTV from an antenna?" It’s shocking to a lot of people. So we see this as a great opportunity. Our biggest obstacle isn’t other antenna manufacturers. It’s the fact that most people aren’t even aware that this is an option.



Up here in the Hudson Valley, it's rare to see an antenna on the roof now. 30 years ago when I went with my brother to see the house he was considering, I remember looking up at the roof to see if they had a decent antenna! Living in a fringe area between NYC and Albany, we never got very good reception up here in these parts, so cable became a necessity. So I wouldn't be surprised if that number was more than 80% Every time I move into a new home I always call the cable company just like I call the electric company. Antennas are more of a hobby for me now - only used as a backup if cable goes out.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/19634965
> 
> 
> There was one quote in that interview with the owner of Antennas Direct that I found interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> Up here in the Hudson Valley, it's rare to see an antenna on the roof now. 30 years ago when I went with my brother to see the house he was considering, I remember looking up at the roof to see if they had a decent antenna! Living in a fringe area between NYC and Albany, we never got very good reception up here in these parts, so cable became a necessity. So I wouldn't be surprised if that number was more than 80% Every time I move into a new home I always call the cable company just like I call the electric company. Antennas are more of a hobby for me now - only used as a backup if cable goes out.



nervouscat years ago i was more of a antenna enthusiast that i am presently, I use to have a very long uhf yagi type antenna on the roof of my house, I could

receive a tv station from kingston, ny channel 62 wtza if you go back that many years ago, this was analog before digital took over, this station was approx 90 miles from my location, had no problems getting it. also albany ny stations were viable. anyway my point is that hd is excellent picture wise, but it could not hold a candle to analog as far reception wise. those are some of nuanses with digital


----------



## AloEuro

" channel 2 cbs comes in pretty good all week long, but when cbs 2 shows the nfl on sunday afternoon is where I start to go nuts. the picture seems to be constantly breakin up, even rotating the antenna towards esb, is a moote point "

Yes, it does when surfing Up/Down channels, pixelation, 5-10 seconds No signal, untill 60Min. comes on - your assesment of reason has merit


----------



## AloEuro

WRNN-LD 26 -- 0-0-0 No Signal on my box.

WXNY-LD 32 -- 0-5-27-30 only Manual scan can pick --junk, Paid progr. InfoMercials

directed at women

WNYX-LD 35 -- week signal - all Infomercials, paid programming, of Jacobson broadcasting first time about 2/3 weeks ago.

None of those 3 ch. is worth to change Antena direction to get stronger signal.


----------



## rothe

I finally got around to taking some measurements with my spectrum analyzer. The results were interesting - I've posted them here:

http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/att...oof/index.html 


There's also a detailed write-up about the installation location and some observations about the results here:

http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/ 


If you have some experience with antenna installations, and especially with test tools like a spectrum analyzer, I'd appreciate your comments.


And if you don't have any experience with these test tools, you might do well to dig into this anyway. You might learn something about your own reception problems.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yikes. WNET looks like it has some type of multipath or something distorting it still.


Reading your thoughts makes sense. I'd definitely say to take your analyzer with you up on the roof and see if moving it up or down a few inches fixes WNET.


- Trip


----------



## rothe

Any thoughts about the signal strength drop across all channels from when I went to the roof mount vs the attic mount?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/19643499
> 
> 
> I finally got around to taking some measurements with my spectrum analyzer. The results were interesting - I've posted them here:
> 
> http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/att...oof/index.html
> 
> 
> There's also a detailed write-up about the installation location and some observations about the results here:
> 
> http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/
> 
> 
> If you have some experience with antenna installations, and especially with test tools like a spectrum analyzer, I'd appreciate your comments.
> 
> 
> And if you don't have any experience with these test tools, you might do well to dig into this anyway. You might learn something about your own reception problems.



Are those raw readings taken at the antenna or close to it? (without the pre-amp and splitters/joiners)


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19643916
> 
> 
> Are those raw readings taken at the antenna or close to it? (without the pre-amp and splitters/joiners)



All readings were taken without splitter/joiners or pre-amps.


In the case of the attic-mount readings, they were taken using a short, home-made cable. In the case of the 3ft over the roof readings, they were taken with a 6ft pre-manufactured, high-end cable. In the case of the 8ft over the roof readings, they were taken with a 12ft pre-manufactured, high-end cable.


And no traps installed, either.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Couple of comments:


First, I have and use the same meter. Do yourself a favor and contact Sencore for a copy of S.M.A.R.T. and a license. They're free and will allow you to connect directly to the 1454 using an RS232 port . I use a USB-Serial adapter I got off ebay for another task. SMART will eliminate the digital camera and allow you to do some more extensive recording with only a couple of clicks.


Second, the difference between the attic and outdoors is counter to what is expected and what I have always seen. To eliminate testing variations, I'd suggest using the identical cable for all tests regardless of whether the longer cable is needed or not. Perhaps your location has a particularly favorable anomaly (a diffraction or reflection, perhaps), but I'm scratching my head. Is there any chance you recorded the photos and locations backwards? The other thing I'd be suspicious of is a hardware fault in the 1454. My own unit developed a fault in one of the programmable attenuators that caused a similar error when the signal power crossed a particular threshold. That one cost me almost $300 in repair and calibration expense this spring.


For your channel 13 issue, you're right about it being multi-path. My usually course of action is to "walk the roof" and to seek a location where the interfering reflection is minimized.


In all, a really good example of "seeing is believing". Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/19643804
> 
> 
> Any thoughts about the signal strength drop across all channels from when I went to the roof mount vs the attic mount?



I'm not sure, but I would say that as long as your SNR is better, which you said it is, then it shouldn't make much difference. I wouldn't be worried. I'd be very happy to lose raw power in favor of a decreased noise floor increasing SNR.


- Trip


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/19644060
> 
> 
> Couple of comments:
> 
> 
> First, I have and use the same meter. Do yourself a favor and contact Sencore for a copy of S.M.A.R.T. and a license. They're free and will allow you to connect directly to the 1454 using an RS232 port . I use a USB-Serial adapter I got off ebay for another task. SMART will eliminate the digital camera and allow you to do some more extensive recording with only a couple of clicks.



I have a copy of SMART, as it was shipped to me with the meter. But I haven't used it, because I don't yet have a USB-serial adapter. I'll do something about that.



> Quote:
> Second, the difference between the attic and outdoors is counter to what is expected and what I have always seen. To eliminate testing variations, I'd suggest using the identical cable for all tests regardless of whether the longer cable is needed or not. Perhaps your location has a particularly favorable anomaly (a diffraction or reflection, perhaps), but I'm scratching my head.



It's going to be a while before I swap out that cable again. On the other hand, I can probably test the other two cables fairly easily, and verify that they are reliable across the VHF-hi and UHF bands.



> Quote:
> Is there any chance you recorded the photos and locations backwards?



That much I'm actually very sure of. The fact is that I only published three series of photos, but I have a total of nine series that I actually took, at the three mounting points but with and without the high-low splitter/joiner (trap), and then with the amp. I only published these three series because they demonstrate the results better than I could by adding the extra series, but the fact is that those unpublished series show pretty much the same freaky signal strength trend.



> Quote:
> The other thing I'd be suspicious of is a hardware fault in the 1454. My own unit developed a fault in one of the programmable attenuators that caused a similar error when the signal power crossed a particular threshold. That one cost me almost $300 in repair and calibration expense this spring.



THAT sounds like a very reasonable hypothesis. But since I'm a hobbyist, I'm not so inclined to spend that kind of money on repairs and calibration. But I'll keep an eye out for how I might be able to identify some sort of threshold-related attenuation. Perhaps when I try tweaking the antenna heights again, I'll also try rotating the antenna and keep an eye out for a smooth change in signal strength.



> Quote:
> For your channel 13 issue, you're right about it being multi-path. My usually course of action is to "walk the roof" and to seek a location where the interfering reflection is minimized.



Since I recognized - actually guessed about - the roll-off in the spectrum shots as a near-field reflection, distance seemed to be the solution. And sure enough, elevation flattened out the curve.



> Quote:
> In all, a really good example of "seeing is believing". Thanks for sharing!



Hey - thanks for the feedback!


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> The other thing I'd be suspicious of is a hardware fault in the 1454. My own unit developed a fault in one of the programmable attenuators that caused a similar error when the signal power crossed a particular threshold. That one cost me almost $300 in repair and calibration expense this spring.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> THAT sounds like a very reasonable hypothesis. But since I'm a hobbyist, I'm not so inclined to spend that kind of money on repairs and calibration. But I'll keep an eye out for how I might be able to identify some sort of threshold-related attenuation. Perhaps when I try tweaking the antenna heights again, I'll also try rotating the antenna and keep an eye out for a smooth change in signal strength.
Click to expand...


I was able to pinpoint the threshold using a couple of variable attenuators.


----------



## tahoejoe

Anyone else have problems with 5.1 last night during the Giants game? Disappeared some time after 10 PM for me with signal dropping to about 20% ( usually up around 65-70%, which is my weakest channel).


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/19645900
> 
> 
> Anyone else have problems with 5.1 last night during the Giants game? Disappeared some time after 10 PM for me with signal dropping to about 20% ( usually up around 65-70%, which is my weakest channel).



It was fine for me.


----------



## nycdigital09

I'm to starting to see a pattern with ota signals when football is showned. looks like signal overload, from co-channel or adjacent channels, when the broadcast channel boost their signals to enhance or blanket their area coverage. very interesting, wonder if fcc monitors this or just sweeps under a rug? ummm.. thinkin


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/19645900
> 
> 
> Anyone else have problems with 5.1 last night during the Giants game? Disappeared some time after 10 PM for me with signal dropping to about 20% ( usually up around 65-70%, which is my weakest channel).




Channel 5 was fine for me the whole game. Channel 4 started breaking up though when the wind began to pick up.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19646018
> 
> 
> I'm to starting to see a pattern with ota signals when football is showned. looks like signal overload, from co-channel or adjacent channels, when the broadcast channel boost their signals to enhance or blanket their area coverage. very interesting, wonder if fcc monitors this or just sweeps under a rug? ummm.. thinkin



strange. ive had absolutely no problems with any football games this season since i went strictly OTA. cbs, nbc, fox, pix, my9, all games were/are perfectly fine.


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19646018
> 
> 
> I'm to starting to see a pattern with ota signals when football is showned. looks like signal overload, from co-channel or adjacent channels, when the broadcast channel boost their signals to enhance or blanket their area coverage. very interesting, wonder if fcc monitors this or just sweeps under a rug? ummm.. thinkin





That scenario is extraordinarily improbable...


Chances are better that it's just static from the wife who cannot stand to see you enjoy yourself by watching a game.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19646018
> 
> 
> I'm to starting to see a pattern with ota signals when football is showned. looks like signal overload, from co-channel or adjacent channels, when the broadcast channel boost their signals to enhance or blanket their area coverage. very interesting, wonder if fcc monitors this or just sweeps under a rug? ummm.. thinkin



I never heard of a station boosting there channel just for a football game. Might be just a coincidence.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19647105
> 
> 
> I never heard of a station boosting there channel just for a football game. Might be just a coincidence.



That _is_ an amusing insinuation


----------



## rothe

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
I'm to starting to see a pattern with ota signals when football is showned. looks like signal overload, from co-channel or adjacent channels, when the broadcast channel boost their signals to enhance or blanket their area coverage. very interesting, wonder if fcc monitors this or just sweeps under a rug? ummm.. thinkin
Count me among the doubters, too.


What makes you so sure it's signal overload? With an analog signal, you could see overload artifacts on the screen, but you can't see that with digital.


I'd be more concerned with some kind of electrical interference from some faulty circuit, appliance or lighting that rarely gets used except roughly around the time of Sunday football. Is there a sports bar across the street, with lots of fluorescent lighting, and the place turns everything on on Sunday afternoon? Maybe a church with a heating system that's generating some electrical noise? How about in your own house? Is your TV viewing done in an addition where you only ran electric heat? Is your teenage kid working on his car in the garage every Sunday afternoon, trying out every power tool he can get his hands on?


These are all wild guesses, and I expect that none of them are the case for you, but these are the kinds of things that you'll need to consider. The cause would be a little easier to pinpoint if you had a (reliable) test tool like a spectrum analyzer, but you might get some clues just by walking around the house, property or neighborhood looking for possible interference causes.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *rothe* 
Count me among the doubters, too.


What makes you so sure it's signal overload? With an analog signal, you could see overload artifacts on the screen, but you can't see that with digital.


I'd be more concerned with some kind of electrical interference from some faulty circuit, appliance or lighting that rarely gets used except roughly around the time of Sunday football. Is there a sports bar across the street, with lots of fluorescent lighting, and the place turns everything on on Sunday afternoon? Maybe a church with a heating system that's generating some electrical noise? How about in your own house? Is your TV viewing done in an addition where you only ran electric heat? Is your teenage kid working on his car in the garage every Sunday afternoon, trying out every power tool he can get his hands on?


These are all wild guesses, and I expect that none of them are the case for you, but these are the kinds of things that you'll need to consider. The cause would be a little easier to pinpoint if you had a (reliable) test tool like a spectrum analyzer, but you might get some clues just by walking around the house, property or neighborhood looking for possible interference causes.
there is a pocket of non reception on northern shore of long island, near great neck thru huntington that cbs 2 has acknowledge by erecting a booster or translator near LIE, thats because wfsb and wcbs are interfering with each others signal, my analogy is based on those facts and that it only happens on sunday when football is on. It has varied somewhat, but it has happens on the other networks also, nbc fox cbs. dtv has lots quirks that perhaps nobody has experienced. let you know if this sunday is any different.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19646018
> 
> 
> I'm to starting to see a pattern with ota signals when football is showned. looks like signal overload, from co-channel or adjacent channels, when the broadcast channel boost their signals to enhance or blanket their area coverage. very interesting, wonder if fcc monitors this or just sweeps under a rug? ummm.. thinkin



Are you wearing a tin foil hat while watching the game? Could be that.


----------



## Greg2600

According to their website , Antenna TV will be on WPIX 11.3, and according to the WPIX wikipedia page, ThisTV is moving to 11.2? Estrella is being dropped (good). Of course, wikipedia is not exactly solid confirmation of anything. Then again, another forum talks about This moving to 11.4.


----------



## Trip in VA

In all cases, This TV has been moved to a higher channel in favor of Antenna TV, unless there's another network already on the -2. In Philadelphia, This TV was moved from 17-2 to 17-3 with Antenna TV coming to 17-2. In Seattle, there's already a Fox simulcast on 22-2 so Antenna TV will be on 22-3.


This TV will almost certainly wind up on 11-4 with Antenna TV on 11-3 and Estrella on 11-2. I'll be surprised if it happens any other way.


- Trip


----------



## Greg2600

You're probably correct. Like I said, you can't trust wikipedia changes without links to support. From an OTA perspective, I was hoping they'd just drop Estrella, because these Sub's aren't going to be given much bandwidth. From my position, I have FIOS, and only get Estrella's sub-channel, which stinks.


----------



## nycdigital09

no way trip, estrella is high taling it out, there is no other way thistv looks like youtube allready can you imagine if they add another sub channel it will look worse than analog.


----------



## Trip in VA

I guess we'll know in two weeks. Or sooner, if they get a slide up before then.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

I read Antenna TV will launch on 11.3 starting Jan 1st 2011 So I am guessing that THIS TV is moving to 11.2 and GOODBYE Estrella.


I also read that JAN 1st is all day Benny hill or Three Stooges marathon. So is Jan 2nd. Regular programing starts Jan 3rd










Hey Trip in VA any other new channels coming?


----------



## Greg2600

While WPIX and ThisTV have ignored by contact requests, AntennaTV replied almost immediately. I asked if they were getting the sub-channel onto FIOS, and they said "we're working on it." My money is on 3 sub-channels, unfortunately.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19671855
> 
> 
> While WPIX and ThisTV have ignored by contact requests, AntennaTV replied almost immediately. I asked if they were getting the sub-channel onto FIOS, and they said "we're working on it." My money is on 3 sub-channels, unfortunately.



Greg, i have a feeling your right pix is gonna carry 3 subs. I think everyone here who doesn't want 3 subs should email pix about their dismal signal.


Otherwise they won't do a darn thing. why can't pix give share additional bandwith with the other subs. pix main channel is at 1080i i dont see a noticeable difference with 720i.


----------



## jpru34

Every other channel at 85%+. NBC at around 40%. Wonder if this is related to the filing they had with the FCC a few months back stating that they would be operating at 50% power from time to time over the following months. Could just be my unique situation but I do wonder why I am getting every other ESB channel at close to 100%


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC has been back at full power for a while now.


Just checked my SNR meter - coming in just fine.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19671855
> 
> 
> While WPIX and ThisTV have ignored by contact requests, AntennaTV replied almost immediately. I asked if they were getting the sub-channel onto FIOS, and they said "we're working on it." My money is on 3 sub-channels, unfortunately.



Ok then please answer why it shows Antenna TV coming to 11.3? Are they Moving THIS TV to 11.4? I would think 11.2


I still bet on 2 subs total. Guess we will see. Couple weeks left.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19673547
> 
> 
> Ok then please answer why it shows Antenna TV coming to 11.3? Are they Moving THIS TV to 11.4?



I explained it right here:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19669955
> 
> 
> In all cases, This TV has been moved to a higher channel in favor of Antenna TV, unless there's another network already on the -2. In Philadelphia, This TV was moved from 17-2 to 17-3 with Antenna TV coming to 17-2. In Seattle, there's already a Fox simulcast on 22-2 so Antenna TV will be on 22-3.
> 
> 
> This TV will almost certainly wind up on 11-4 with Antenna TV on 11-3 and Estrella on 11-2. I'll be surprised if it happens any other way.



- Trip


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19673297
> 
> 
> WNBC has been back at full power for a while now.
> 
> 
> Just checked my SNR meter - coming in just fine.



Thanks Snell. Any explanation why one ESB channel would come in at half the strength of all the others? This all just seems so bizarre to me.


----------



## SnellKrell

Realize that although many channels transmit from the ESB and that WCBS and WWOR use the same antenna (the WCBS UHF Combiner) each station has a different power output, different frequency - all subject to temperature, humidity variations, no less

physical impairments such as multipath signals, leaves on trees, you name it.


Do you have line-of-sight to the top of the Antenna Mast on the ESB?


Each case, each location is different. I know it's so frustrating.


Once WNBC came back to full power, its signal has been rock solid for me thanks to the station's expert engineer.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19673555
> 
> 
> I explained it right here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



I honor your judgment. We all do here. That being said. I have a feeling you are wrong this time. So I guess it is a bet. lol We will see Jan 1st.



Any other channels coming soon?


----------



## Trip in VA

Like I said, we'll find out in less than two weeks.


And I'm not aware of any.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19673889
> 
> 
> Like I said, we'll find out in less than two weeks.
> 
> 
> And I'm not aware of any.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Do you have a clue on why they are launching Jan 1st with two days of marathons Benny Hill and Three stooges?


Regular programing starts Jan 3rd.


Why they doing that? Why not start with regular programing?


----------



## Trip in VA

Why not?


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19674076
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Because I do not think many would want to watch such a marathon.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19673904
> 
> 
> Do you have a clue on why they are launching Jan 1st with two days of marathons Benny Hill and Three stooges?
> 
> 
> Regular programing starts Jan 3rd.
> 
> 
> Why they doing that? Why not start with regular programing?



Because program marathons are more promotable than regularly scheduled programming and usually rate better!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19674218
> 
> 
> Because I do not think many would want to watch such a marathon.



I recall that one of WCIU's subchannels in Chicago has aired Stooges marathons and found them to be wildly popular.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

WOW I did not know that. I stand corrected


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/19673176
> 
> 
> Every other channel at 85%+. NBC at around 40%. Wonder if this is related to the filing they had with the FCC a few months back stating that they would be operating at 50% power from time to time over the following months. Could just be my unique situation but I do wonder why I am getting every other ESB channel at close to 100%



youre having problems cos football game is on, like i mention in my earlier post, whenever sunday comes around the networks boost their signals up hence interference with each other signal.


----------



## Trip in VA

Oh, and FYI to everyone here, I'll be making my way to New Jersey a week from today. I'm anxious to see how reception of WLNY-CD 45 is at my grandmother's house, and to collect new TSReader data on WKOB-LD 2.


Has anyone seen DeadFormatLover around? His last post was almost two months ago.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19674337
> 
> 
> youre having problems cos football game is on, like i mention in my earlier post, whenever sunday comes around the networks boost their signals up hence interference with each other signal.



May I ask, how do you have this "knowledge"?


----------



## nycdigital09

addition by subtraction


----------



## SnellKrell

In absolutely no way would the flagship stations of major networks put themselves in jeopardy by illegally boosting their over-the-air signals.


I've worked in television for many, many years and I cannot find any foundation at all in what you suggest!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Greg, i have a feeling your right pix is gonna carry 3 subs. I think everyone here who doesn't want 3 subs should email pix about their dismal signal.
> 
> 
> Otherwise they won't do a darn thing. why can't pix give share additional bandwith with the other subs. pix main channel is at 1080i i dont see a noticeable difference with 720i.



wpix is converting to 720p and 3 sd subs. sorry estrella is staying. decision made based on wabc success with having 2 hd at 720p and 1 sd.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Because I do not think many would want to watch such a marathon.



keyboard, i have. feeling the programmers at antenna have more experience and knowledge of what viewers want than you do. have u programmed any channels or have access to neilson data? what may appeal to others may not appeal to you. marathons of tv shows are common on heavily viewed tv days which would include their launch date.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19675810
> 
> 
> keyboard, i have. feeling the programmers at antenna have more experience and knowledge of what viewers want than you do. have u programmed any channels or have access to neilson data? what may appeal to others may not appeal to you. marathons of tv shows are common on heavily viewed tv days which would include their launch date.



NEW Station. I do not think they have any experience with old TV Antenna Channel. So how would they know people are going to watch Benny hill for 24 hours? ! hour and I would be done lol


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19676194
> 
> 
> NEW Station. I do not think they have any experience with old TV Antenna Channel. So how would they know people are going to watch Benny hill for 24 hours? ! hour and I would be done lol




Its a promo, antenna wants you to tune into the three stooge marathon, when you do they gotcha, you be coming back again. thats their schtick they know exactly what theyre doing.


----------



## dm145

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nyctveng* 
wpix is converting to 720p and 3 sd subs. sorry estrella is staying. decision made based on wabc success with having 2 hd at 720p and 1 sd.
when?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19675786
> 
> 
> wpix is converting to 720p and 3 sd subs. sorry estrella is staying. decision made based on wabc success with having 2 hd at 720p and 1 sd.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/19681687
> 
> 
> when?



C'mon. You really believe that nonsense?


----------



## nycdigital09

I don't know about you keyboard Im definitely tuning into the 3 stooges


----------



## Aero 1

*on the 9th, my tivo got a message that a channel was added to my location. its channel 11-4:*

  

*fast foward my guide to Jan 1st, and the 3 stooges marathon starts on 11-3
*
 

*So who wins the argument?*


sorry for the big pictures. its too early to have internet etiquette.


----------



## nycdigital09

according to tivo on last picture thistv is not listed. is possible that thistv is being moved to 11-2 like it was hypothesized by some good folks here in this forum.


----------



## Greg2600

Eh, I think Tivo is a pretty good source of confirmation that there will be 11.4 and I'd think it will be ThisTV. Frankly I think 720p is a better resolution for the main HD feed than 1080i anyway.


----------



## nycdigital09

I take it that you think there will be 11-4. i think what tivo is saying is that estrella is leaving. and reshuffling the subs


----------



## Greg2600

I hope you're right, but why would Tivo list 11-4 and still have the Estrella lineup on 11-2 for January 1st? They replaced This in the guide with Antenna, why not replace Estrella in the guide with This?


----------



## Aero 1

Tivo gets its guide data from Tribune, going to their site and going forward in time, this is what you get. According to this, there will be two ThisTv's, who the hell knows. 11-3 its obviously antennatv and 11-4 is thistv.


here is what tribune is reporting for Jan 2 at 5 pm, frankly, I'm more excited about the benny hill marathon. hopefully they dont censor it.

 


here is the tribune guide website, just enter your location: http://affiliate.zap2it.com


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19684780
> 
> 
> I hope you're right, but why would Tivo list 11-4 and still have the Estrella lineup on 11-2 for January 1st? They replaced This in the guide with Antenna, why not replace Estrella in the guide with This?



Looks like to me that 11.4 will be THIS TV, But why move it? Why not have 11.3 THIS TV and 11.4 Antenna TV.


I thought they wrote that THIS TV is very important to Tribune. So seems silly to make it the last sub?


Very strange that they would have 3 subs.


Thanks for the TIVO info. I really thought Estrella was leaving


----------



## Trip in VA

Antenna TV is more important than This TV, given that Antenna TV is owned by Tribune.


I'm glad we've now settled that This TV will be on 11-4.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19685011
> 
> 
> Antenna TV is more important than This TV, given that Antenna TV is owned by Tribune.
> 
> 
> I'm glad we've now settled that This TV will be on 11-4.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well the facts show you are correct, BUT I am going to wait till Jan 1st till I admit defeat.










Any other news on what other channels might be coming 2011?


Hope you have a nice trip to NJ. Please post the NY area TV info you get when you go.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19685043
> 
> 
> Well the facts show you are correct, BUT I am going to wait till Jan 1st till I admit defeat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any other news on what other channels might be coming 2011?
> 
> 
> Hope you have a nice trip to NJ. Please post the NY area TV info you get when you go.



guess that pizza you owe trip will make a nice christmas present


----------



## Trip in VA

Haha, no worries; nobody owes me anything. Though pizza does sound good.










But I'm not aware of anything else coming at this time. You don't have to keep asking; if I hear something and I'm allowed to say something about it, I'll post it.










- Trip


----------



## dvdchance

What about that me tv or whatever it is? Any NYC clearance for that station?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19685315
> 
> 
> guess that pizza you owe trip will make a nice christmas present



Anytime, He does such great work for this board. Always helpful. Always seems to know what is going on with NYC tv


Trip in VA, You can pm me for names of places also.



A 24 hour news program would be nice. I do not understand why major news does not do this?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19685374
> 
> 
> What about that me tv or whatever it is? Any NYC clearance for that station?



So far, no clearance outside of Chicago and Milwaukee. Coming soon in South Bend. All are Weigel-owned, but more affiliates are supposed to be announced "soon," whatever that means.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19685550
> 
> 
> Anytime, He does such great work for this board. Always helpful. Always seems to know what is going on with NYC tv
> 
> 
> Trip in VA, You can pm me for names of places also.



Thanks. And glad to.











> Quote:
> A 24 hour news program would be nice. I do not understand why major news does not do this?



I agree that 24-hour news would be a wonderful addition, but I understand why they don't. News is expensive and I imagine a local news station wouldn't want to pull from their 6PM newscast. In my area, there's a local "24/7" news channel (currently only on cable) and all it does is show repeats of the last newscast to air. I suspect you won't see much more than that in terms of 24-hour news channels.


On the flip side, if you do something like MSNBC or Fox News and spend most of your time on opinion, you can get very good rates from cable fees that simply wouldn't be there over the air.


By the way, has anyone noticed the programming of WYBE in Philadelphia, "MiND TV," has appeared on WFME 66-4?


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

I agree that 24-hour news would be a wonderful addition, but I understand why they don't. News is expensive and I imagine a local news station wouldn't want to pull from their 6PM newscast. In my area, there's a local "24/7" news channel (currently only on cable) and all it does is show repeats of the last newscast to air. I suspect you won't see much more than that in terms of 24-hour news channels.


On the flip side, if you do something like MSNBC or Fox News and spend most of your time on opinion, you can get very good rates from cable fees that simply wouldn't be there over the air. posted by trip


Trip nyc does have some local 24/7 news coverage, their exclusively in use thru cable

ny1 comes to mind, there are others in cablevision long island, westchester.

I agree that networks don't want to toot their horns. hopefully when you come up to ny we don't hit with winter blast like in england is going thru


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19686050
> 
> 
> So far, no clearance outside of Chicago and Milwaukee. Coming soon in South Bend. All are Weigel-owned, but more affiliates are supposed to be announced "soon," whatever that means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. And glad to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that 24-hour news would be a wonderful addition, but I understand why they don't. News is expensive and I imagine a local news station wouldn't want to pull from their 6PM newscast. In my area, there's a local "24/7" news channel (currently only on cable) and all it does is show repeats of the last newscast to air. I suspect you won't see much more than that in terms of 24-hour news channels.
> 
> 
> On the flip side, if you do something like MSNBC or Fox News and spend most of your time on opinion, you can get very good rates from cable fees that simply wouldn't be there over the air.
> 
> 
> By the way, has anyone noticed the programming of WYBE in Philadelphia, "MiND TV," has appeared on WFME 66-4?
> 
> 
> - Trip



This is what MIND TV IS


Looks like pUBLIC broadcast. You can go on and rent a 5 min block. Hey the Trip SHOW on antenna's


Cable in NYC used to have something like this. Channel K. Just shown my age lol

http://www.mindtv.org/cgi-bin/dt.fcg...llow_session=1


----------



## reddice

Is 11.1 really switching to 720p for extra subs? 1080i looks much better.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19675786
> 
> 
> wpix is converting to 720p and 3 sd subs. sorry estrella is staying. decision made based on wabc success with having 2 hd at 720p and 1 sd.



Do you know for a Fact that 11.1 is going to 720p? OR a guess on your part?


----------



## raj2001

Hi everyone, not been here in a while. Had other stuff to do I guess. Triplets plus road trip to RI and my dad bro and sil over for the holidays had been taking up most of our time. Plus it's the holidays so lots of people on vacation and I gotta cover for 'em.


Anyway, MiND is definitely on wfme 66.4. I was pleasantly surprised since I wrote off wfme 66 as nothing but useless babble.


Trip and nycdigital09 if you guys are getting together for pizza I'd love to join you guys.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19693534
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, not been here in a while. Had other stuff to do I guess. Triplets plus road trip to RI and my dad bro and sil over for the holidays had been taking up most of our time. Plus it's the holidays so lots of people on vacation and I gotta cover for 'em.
> 
> 
> Anyway, MiND is definitely on wfme 66.4. I was pleasantly surprised since I wrote off wfme 66 as nothing but useless babble.
> 
> 
> Trip and nycdigital09 if you guys are getting together for pizza I'd love to join you guys.



hello raj, how are you holding out man, believe me is well worth it, enjoy your family while you;re still young, my kids are all adults now, believe me it goes really fast. I wish I could make it, I'm flying down to Orlando tomorrow for a week my brother is not doing well. but maybe we can get together in future. take care


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19693534
> 
> 
> Anyway, MiND is definitely on wfme 66.4. I was pleasantly surprised since I wrote off wfme 66 as nothing but useless babble.



Other than the new 66-4 and the existing NOAA audio on 66-7, it mostly is.



> Quote:
> Trip and nycdigital09 if you guys are getting together for pizza I'd love to join you guys.



Nothing had been arranged, but maybe some type of get-together would be fun.







I'm tentatively planning to be in New York on the 30th.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19693582
> 
> 
> hello raj, how are you holding out man, believe me is well worth it, enjoy your family while you;re still young, my kids are all adults now, believe me it goes really fast. I wish I could make it, I'm flying down to Orlando tomorrow for a week my brother is not doing well. but maybe we can get together in future. take care



Doing good so far, thanks. Yes they are growing fast, pretty soon they'll be asking daddy for the car keys lol


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19693660
> 
> 
> Nothing had been arranged, but maybe some type of get-together would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm tentatively planning to be in New York on the 30th.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Sounds like a plan... I'm around so let me know.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19691076
> 
> 
> Is 11.1 really switching to 720p for extra subs? 1080i looks much better.



we don't know we're hypothesizing, wpix is gonna go with 2 or 3 subs










do you know ?


----------



## nyctveng

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21*
Do you know for a Fact that 11.1 is going to 720p? OR a guess on your part?
.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19697987
> 
> 
> Doing good so far, thanks. Yes they are growing fast, pretty soon they'll be asking daddy for the car keys lol



yeah, I can see you being a real life version of peter griffin.










whats mind-tv like ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19701502
> 
> 
> fact.....720p and 3 subs



Would you mind Sharing how you know this for a fact? You spoke to an insider?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19701502
> 
> 
> fact.....720p and 3 subs



BS! Just because one random poster says it doesn't make it fact! How come this hasn't been reported anywhere else? Plus it makes no sense. There have been stations around the country that have run 1080i and 3 subs.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19704535
> 
> 
> BS! Just because one random poster says it doesn't make it fact! How come this hasn't been reported anywhere else? Plus it makes no sense. There have been stations around the country that have run 1080i and 3 subs.



No Need to Argue. Just a few more days until we find out for real.


I just hope the picture quality is better then THIS TV. Even on a CRT it looks real bad


----------



## yobiworld

New Networks are ALWAYS Talking about when they gonna start airing programs. I Dont think Antenna Tv is gonna start on January 1. They might push it back so im not getting my hopes up


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19704610
> 
> 
> New Networks are ALWAYS Talking about when they gonna start airing programs. I Dont think Antenna Tv is gonna start on January 1. They might push it back so im not getting my hopes up



nah no way jose, antennatv debut is jan 1st. Think about it, they been letting the whole world know about their 3 stooges/benny hill marathon, just so pix can ruin it. don't see that happening. hah


Merry Christmas, Happy kwanza to everyone


----------



## johntorres

As an apparent homage to the WPIX Yule Log, channel 25.1 has been broadcasting a festive "No Disc" splash-screen all day today ... a follow-up to yesterday's "PHILLIPS" DVD-player screensaver.


Feliz Navidad, everybody.


----------



## tahoejoe

I, for one, am very disappointed in the current antennatv posted schedule . The original schedule had great old shows like Phil Silvers and Car 54. Now, much of the schedule looks like TV Land and Nick at Nite.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/19705599
> 
> 
> I, for one, am very disappointed in the current antennatv posted schedule . The original schedule had great old shows like Phil Silvers and Car 54. Now, much of the schedule looks like TV Land and Nick at Nite.



Agreed, wish they showed a good suspense series from 60's like the fugitive, streets of san francisco or hawaia five-O maybe some sci-fi shows like time tunnel, land of giants. that would make a nice christmas present.


----------



## keyboard21

Now Showing Antenna TV on 11.4

*New York WPIX 11.4
*


----------



## jpru34

I can't prove anything but for the 4th or 5th week in a row now, reception on Channel 4 on the weekends is dramatically worse than during week. I have serious trouble believing that this is all some coincidence or weather-related. I don't think it is some football-related conspiracy; I just think they are doing some type of work over the weekends. I'm just an amateur so I could be wrong but it's just too often now that this has been happening only on weekends and only on Channel 4.


----------



## nycdigital09

I also have issues with wnbc ch4, is my weakest of all stations that I can get reliably. I understand that nbc antenna position on the master antenna is lower and to the side, that can get troublesome reception. you're in n.bergen I would summize that youre probably suffering from the dreaded multipath, do you have line of sight to Esb ? can you post a tvfool report ?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19707227
> 
> 
> Now Showing Antenna TV on 11.4
> 
> *New York WPIX 11.4
> *



is it on now? youre being vague at best


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19707619
> 
> 
> I also have issues with wnbc ch4, is my weakest of all stations that I can get reliably. I understand that nbc antenna position on the master antenna is lower and to the side, that can get troublesome reception. you're in n.bergen I would summize that youre probably suffering from the dreaded multipath, do you have line of sight to Esb ? can you post a tvfool report ?



You state that the NBC antenna is lower.


Lower than what?


Yes, it is side-mounted with additional arrays to fill-in to the southeast for

Brooklyn and Queens reception. It's the same antenna that currently serves both WCBS and WWOR. It is known as the UHF Combiner, 1302' high.


The VHF Combiner transmitting the signals of WABC, WPIX and WNET is located only 26' higher than the UHF Combiner!


----------



## Trip in VA

Aloha from Fair Lawn!


I've made it into town and attempted to do my initial data collection this evening. Using only my Silver Sensor and Kitztech KT200, I managed to collect clean data on these signals:


WABC-7

WPIX-11

WNET-13

WMBC-18

WNYE-24

WASA-25

WNBC-28

WFME-29

WFUT-30

WPXN-31

WCBS-33

WNJU-36

WWOR-38

WNYN-39

WXTV-40

WNYW-44

WNJN-51


(Also observed: WMBQ-46, an analog station.)


Other than WNYN, the largest pain was WNET. I tried using my FM dipole to pull it in and had no success. Finally, after fidgeting for a very long time with the Silver Sensor until WNYN came in, I tried WNET and it happened to work.


So far, no changes on WPIX. In fact, most of my data for New York seems to be pretty up to date.


I was able to decode the Mobile DTV on WPXN and WNJU. WNBC's MH was not operating, not that it's a huge loss, as I suspect watching "New York Nonstop" to have similar results to the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. And, of course, with the MH error correction yet to be added to the Decontis software, I could only view the programming, not actually try moving around while watching.


I saw hints of signal from WEBR-CD 17 and WRNN-DT 48, but observed nothing at all on 26, 32, 35, or 45, stations I'd hoped to see. I may have to try other places around the house, or go to another location. The absences of 32 and 35 struck me as particularly odd, since they're supposed to be coming out of the same antenna as WNYN-39 but with more power. (WRNN-LD is licensed to that antenna as well, but at lower power.)


In the next few days, I'll be poking at the attic antenna in hopes of grabbing WKOB-LD 2.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

I saw hints of signal from WEBR-CD 17 and WRNN-DT 48, but observed nothing at all on 26, 32, 35, or 45, stations I'd hoped to see. I may have to try other places around the house, or go to another location. The absences of 32 and 35 struck me as particularly odd, since they're supposed to be coming out of the same antenna as WNYN-39 but with more power. (WRNN-LD is licensed to that antenna as well, but at lower power.)


In the next few days, I'll be poking at the attic antenna in hopes of grabbing WKOB-LD 2.


- Trip

__________________

KJ4IEA


Trip, glad to see ya back in town i'm impressed that you can receive lots of ota stations that i can't lol. ch 32 and 35 is mostly religious programming in those channels if I remember correctly. do you see an improvement on 63, can't get 21 either. I can get 26.1 most of the time. c u


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19708238
> 
> 
> Aloha from Fair Lawn!
> 
> 
> I've made it into town and attempted to do my initial data collection this evening. Using only my Silver Sensor and Kitztech KT200, I managed to collect clean data on these signals:
> 
> 
> WABC-7
> 
> WPIX-11
> 
> WNET-13
> 
> WMBC-18
> 
> WNYE-24
> 
> WASA-25
> 
> WNBC-28
> 
> WFME-29
> 
> WFUT-30
> 
> WPXN-31
> 
> WCBS-33
> 
> WNJU-36
> 
> WWOR-38
> 
> WNYN-39
> 
> WXTV-40
> 
> WNYW-44
> 
> WNJN-51
> 
> 
> (Also observed: WMBQ-46, an analog station.)
> 
> 
> Other than WNYN, the largest pain was WNET. I tried using my FM dipole to pull it in and had no success. Finally, after fidgeting for a very long time with the Silver Sensor until WNYN came in, I tried WNET and it happened to work.
> 
> 
> So far, no changes on WPIX. In fact, most of my data for New York seems to be pretty up to date.
> 
> 
> I was able to decode the Mobile DTV on WPXN and WNJU. WNBC's MH was not operating, not that it's a huge loss, as I suspect watching "New York Nonstop" to have similar results to the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. And, of course, with the MH error correction yet to be added to the Decontis software, I could only view the programming, not actually try moving around while watching.
> 
> 
> I saw hints of signal from WEBR-CD 17 and WRNN-DT 48, but observed nothing at all on 26, 32, 35, or 45, stations I'd hoped to see. I may have to try other places around the house, or go to another location. The absences of 32 and 35 struck me as particularly odd, since they're supposed to be coming out of the same antenna as WNYN-39 but with more power. (WRNN-LD is licensed to that antenna as well, but at lower power.)
> 
> 
> In the next few days, I'll be poking at the attic antenna in hopes of grabbing WKOB-LD 2.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Question Sir,


Does the Kitztech KT200 Amp make a difference? Can you try without it also?


Is it a pre amp? What type of amp is it?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19707633
> 
> 
> is it on now? youre being vague at best



Oh I am sorry. Didn't mean to.


I will re-phase it.


On Antenna TV website it is now showing 11.4 for antenna tv. Not 11.3


Man all this is confusing.


----------



## nycdigital09

sorry to ruffle your feathers, but i thought you were watching a preview of antennatv, i read on their site that some locales had a preview of the upcoming programming.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19708393
> 
> 
> sorry to ruffle your feathers, but i thought you were watching a preview of antennatv, i read on their site that some locales had a preview of the upcoming programming.



Ya I re-read what I wrote. It was mis-leading. Not what I meant to say. Sorry. It happens


----------



## Trip in VA

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
Trip, glad to see ya back in town i'm impressed that you can receive lots of ota stations that i can't lol. ch 32 and 35 is mostly religious programming in those channels if I remember correctly. do you see an improvement on 63, can't get 21 either. I can get 26.1 most of the time. c u
I'm hoping to get some TSReader data out of them so I can list them in full on RabbitEars, even if the programming is largely made up of infomercials. We'll see what happens.


And while the analyzer still shows tons of signal, I'm having a lot more trouble with WMBC (63-1) than I remember having in the past. I think I'm seeing some signal from that on-channel booster and it's causing additional multipath that I can't deal with. It's not impossible like it was when WNJU had two transmitters up, but it does seem pickier about antenna placement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21* 
Question Sir,


Does the Kitztech KT200 Amp make a difference? Can you try without it also?


Is it a pre amp? What type of amp is it?
It's a low-noise preamp that I bought when I put my CM7777 on the roof of the building the ham radio club is in. It helped me to bring in some of the weaker signals (WNYN, WNET), but at the expense of errors in some of the stronger signals. I don't remember which ones were being the most problematic in that regard.


The real solution would be to put a good antenna in the attic. Had I set up my VHF bowtie, for instance, WNET would have come in just fine without the amp. And if I had a 4-bay or 8-bay bowtie for UHF, I doubt I'd need the amp for anything on UHF. Using an amp on an indoor antenna is a poor substitute for using a proper antenna in the first place, and as you saw me state, will not make signals that aren't there (like 32, 35, and 45) appear out of nowhere.


Without it, I think I managed 2/4/5/7/9/24/25/31/41/47/50/63/66/68 on the Silver Sensor. WPIX was very borderline but I managed to snag it cleanly without the amp. I think the only stations I was completely unable to receive were WNET and WNYN, the latter of which has nothing on worth watching, while the former would have worked with a VHF-capable antenna.


For anyone wondering, here's what's predicted for my current location. I don't know why the main WMBC transmitter is so low on the list; it should be up where WNJN is based on how powerful the signal is here. http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...dBmV&height=20 


I removed the address from the page, but I believe the coordinates to be almost exact.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

I just noticed, by accident, that WMBC-18 has gotten rid of "Mundo Hispano" on 63-4 and replaced it with a Mobile DTV feed. Unfortunately, that feed does not seem to decode on the Decontis software.


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

The attic antenna now seems to be unable to bring in anything cleanly at all; WKOB-LD 2 was buried in the noise floor with the amp and without it still wouldn't decode even though it looked a lot better on the analyzer.


However, I carefully positioned the high-VHF bowtie in my grandmother's office and was able to get a clean lock on it. That antenna also gets me 100% signal quality on 7/11/13.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

So Trp I guess you would not recommend the Kitztech KT200 Amp if you get most stations at 98 or 100% signal and just want to get a few weak stations.


----------



## Trip in VA

It's a good amp in a weak signal area like where I live at home, but not in a city like here. If you already have tons of signal but it's distorted by multipath, an amp won't help you.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

However, I carefully positioned the high-VHF bowtie in my grandmother's office and was able to get a clean lock on it. That antenna also gets me 100% signal quality on 7/11/13.

- Trip

__________________

KJ4IEA


Comments are my own and not that of my employer or anyone else.


RabbitEars

TVGOS Affiliate List


"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline Report Post Reply With Quote


Trip I never heard of vhf bowtie, I heard of uhf bowtie, is it similar to that or do you mean rabbitears? if it works for low vhf or hi vhf i'm interested in gettting one.

ps i heard north east getting hit hard with snow?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19710864
> 
> 
> Trip I never heard of vhf bowtie, I heard of uhf bowtie, is it similar to that or do you mean rabbitears? if it works for low vhf or hi vhf i'm interested in gettting one.



I built myself a bowtie scaled up to upper-VHF frequencies. Works very well. I have a post about it here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15526421 


I deleted the pictures off my server, so I've attached them to this message, though I did cut a few inches off the ends of each of the whiskers after that picture was taken and it improved it slightly. (My initial calculations for channel 11 were off.) It cost me nothing since I had all the materials, and I'm continually impressed by how well it works.



> Quote:
> ps i heard north east getting hit hard with snow?



There's only an inch or two on the ground here in Fair Lawn at the moment, but we're under a blizzard warning and supposed to get 10-15 inches.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19710603
> 
> 
> It's a good amp in a weak signal area like where I live at home, but not in a city like here. If you already have tons of signal but it's distorted by multipath, an amp won't help you.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Great and thanks for the advice. Hope you had a great holiday.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19710967
> 
> 
> I built myself a bowtie scaled up to upper-VHF frequencies. Works very well. I have a post about it here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15526421
> 
> 
> I deleted the pictures off my server, so I've attached them to this message, though I did cut a few inches off the ends of each of the whiskers after that picture was taken and it improved it slightly. (My initial calculations for channel 11 were off.) It cost me nothing since I had all the materials, and I'm continually impressed by how well it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's only an inch or two on the ground here in Fair Lawn at the moment, but we're under a blizzard warning and supposed to get 10-15 inches.
> 
> 
> - Trip



thats funny, trip i made diy antenna it looks exactly like your antenna except mine has the whiskers that are only 7" long, yours look like twice that. I get good reception on uhf band also i get hi vhf just as good. i don't get any low vhf channels with it. I used a coat hanger I cut it in half and bend it. what did you use for your whiskers? one thing i noticed you need to use a good tv balun preferably a channel master balun with pigtails it makes a significant gain on reception. trip take care, good to see you're having fun !!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19711118
> 
> 
> Great and thanks for the advice. Hope you had a great holiday.



Glad to help, and same to you.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19711391
> 
> 
> thats funny, trip i have dyi antenna it looks exactly like your antenna except mine has the whiskers that are only 7" long, yours look like twice that. I get good reception on uhf band also i get hi vhf just as good. i don't get any low vhf channels with it. I used coat hangers I cut them in half and bend it. what did you use for your whiskers? one thing i use to use a tv balun with spades on ends, then i tried the channel master balun with pigtails and i got much stronger signal with the cm. I couldn't believe the difference that a different balun can make. take care, good to see you're having fun



I need to measure them, but I think each whisker is something like 26 inches, which would make each wire 52 inches or so unbent. Not sure. It's mildly effective on low-VHF but VERY good at upper-VHF. At home, it ALMOST decodes WBRA-3 when I'm standing outside with it, shows some signal for it inside.


I used some fence wire I found in the barn. I have no idea what it's made of, but it was all coiled up. Straightened it out, cut it to length, sanded down the sharp ends resulting from the cutting, then bent them and put them in place.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19711777
> 
> 
> Glad to help, and same to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to measure them, but I think each whisker is something like 26 inches, which would make each wire 52 inches or so unbent. Not sure. It's mildly effective on low-VHF but VERY good at upper-VHF. At home, it ALMOST decodes WBRA-3 when I'm standing outside with it, shows some signal for it inside.
> 
> 
> I used some fence wire I found in the barn. I have no idea what it's made of, but it was all coiled up. Straightened it out, cut it to length, sanded down the sharp ends resulting from the cutting, then bent them and put them in place.
> 
> 
> - Trip



yes, I think a 1/2 wave dipole for low vhf goes from 52 to 46 inches on each whisker your antenna is partially decodes it but it still needs to a bit longer.

have you heard any news from deadformatlover i have not seen him on forum in long time.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19712265
> 
> 
> yes, I think a 1/2 wave dipole for low vhf goes from 52 to 46 inches on each whisker your antenna is partially decodes it but it still needs to a bit longer.



It was made for high-VHF, so...











> Quote:
> have you heard any news from deadformatlover i have not seen him on forum in long time.



I haven't. I hope he's okay.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

Hey Trip in VA


I saw the schedule for antenna TV. It shows Movies during the day each day of the week. Any clue of what movies? I know they will be old. Just wondering. From the Sony Vault? Wished they post some examples


----------



## NYC10033

Trip in VA, I wish avsforum didn't require one to log-in to see pictures such as your pictures of your VHF antenna.


----------



## Trip in VA

Sorry. I used to have them uploaded on my server, but the folder I had them in was making some website code freak out. I'll probably reupload at some point.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19715288
> 
> 
> Sorry. I used to have them uploaded on my server, but the folder I had them in was making some website code freak out. I'll probably reupload at some point.
> 
> 
> - Trip



You could use FREE website called www.tinypic.com/ a quick upload and you paste thelink that has the


----------



## nycdigital09

just recently I was a reading a post on the hartford ota forum, according to that user antennatv is being carried by the fox affiliate wtic 61. on their sub 61-2 I know that antennatv is owned by Tribune. my point is why can't fox 5 or my9 carry another useful sub like antennatv or cooltv. me tv is looking for affiliates for their programming, instead we get repeat channels on their subs. just my opinion but it seems pretty ignorant for these folks to waste precious bandwidth.


----------



## nycdigital09

Trip, you should really think about adding a reflector screen for your antenna, get some chicken wire and attach it. it should give you additional gain, that you're looking for also a better f/b ratio. when i get back to nyc I post a pic of my diy antenna.


----------



## Trip in VA

I've thought about doing that in the past, but it works so well as it is that I haven't felt it necessary. Might try it at some point though.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

Merry and blessed Christ-mass, May God the Lord bless you and your family, gentlemen (with women attached).

Feliz Navidad, caballero


----------



## AloEuro

I wonder what tenant ch.10/55 on 45-1 may put to their empty sub 45-3 fluctuating on -3 or -12 or -13, maybe they already negotiate with some broadcasters, who knows


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19721196
> 
> 
> I wonder what tenant ch.10/55 on 45-1 may put to their empty sub 45-3 fluctuating on -3 or -12 or -13, maybe they already negotiate with some broadcasters, who knows



I don't think a sub can be added, its only a translator station


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19702396
> 
> 
> yeah, I can see you being a real life version of peter griffin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats mind-tv like ?



It's basically like public access TV.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19716827
> 
> 
> Trip, you should really think about adding a reflector screen for your antenna, get some chicken wire and attach it. it should give you additional gain, that you're looking for also a better f/b ratio. when i get back to nyc I post a pic of my diy antenna.



I have our antenna behind a dresser. I tried some tin foil on the back of the dresser, Not touching the antenna. The reults made things worse and not better. So I took off the experiment.


----------



## nycdigital09




keyboard21 said:


> I have our antenna behind a dresser. I tried some tin foil on the back of the dresser, Not touching the antenna. The reults made things worse and not better. So I took off the experiment.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> you're using terk 55 which is a stand alone antenna you really cannot add a reflector to it or a preamp because is made to work that way. but the diy antenna can be enhanced to your needs. my diy antenna picks up uhf and vhf hi excellently i picked up bridgeport ct station which is 50 miles from me, so I know it works like it suppose to.


----------



## Keith

What up with WPIX, its 12/28/10 and they still have not added "ANTENNA TV".. ?


----------



## Aero 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Keith*
What up with WPIX, its 12/28/10 and they still have not added "ANTENNA TV".. ?
Its because the calendar doesn't say 1/1/11 yet.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19721112
> 
> 
> Merry and blessed Christ-mass, May God the Lord bless you and your family, gentlemen (with women attached).
> 
> Feliz Navidad, caballero



gracias amigo same to you


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19721112
> 
> 
> Merry and blessed Christ-mass, May God the Lord bless you and your family, gentlemen (with women attached).
> 
> Feliz Navidad, caballero



gracias amigo same to you


haha is not 1/1/11 funny lol


I'm stranded down here in florida, I was gonna be back by friday now theyre saying monday looks like i won't be back till next week at least, the snow must of impacted ny pretty hard huh ?


----------



## LenL

Trip


Regarding your basic VHF high antenna. I think you may be losing some gain by not having the balun attached in the front, closer to the elements. If you want to have it behind just drill a hole right below the connections in the front to run the balun wires which you then can connect in the front with the balun itself in the back.


----------



## reddice

I now know that amps for indoor antennas are useless for improving reception


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19728220
> 
> 
> Trip
> 
> 
> Regarding your basic VHF high antenna. I think you may be losing some gain by not having the balun attached in the front, closer to the elements. If you want to have it behind just drill a hole right below the connections in the front to run the balun wires which you then can connect in the front with the balun itself in the back.



It doesn't really matter; all I'd have to do is move the balun to the front. I can give it a shot though I'm not sure how much it will help given that I already get fantastic reception from 7/11/13 on it.


I guess I'd have to test on WKOB and WNJB.


- Trip


----------



## jmsnyc

is the fact that rtv / wkob comes in in black and white because thats how its broadcasting... is there anything that can be done at the user end to get it in color?


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19728315
> 
> 
> I now know that amps for indoor antennas are useless for improving reception



Mostly. A lot depends on the amp. I've had some interesting experiences with the new little variable line amp I got from Antennas Direct this fall and my USB tuner sticks. It's making me re-evaluate my previous opinion that an indoor amplifier is a not very useful. Still playing with it and I do find it makes a difference at the extreme margin of reception. Plus, it's got cool blue LEDS which make it even cooler.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/19729282
> 
> 
> Mostly. A lot depends on the amp. I've had some interesting experiences with the new little variable line amp I got from Antennas Direct this fall and my USB tuner sticks. It's making me re-evaluate my previous opinion that an indoor amplifier is a not very useful. Still playing with it and I do find it makes a difference at the extreme margin of reception. Plus, it's got cool blue LEDS which make it even cooler.



Hello I want to ask have you heard any happenings with the parabolic uhf antenna project that i read in on this forum. was suppose to be coming down pipeline, some time this upcoming year. I've read that should be out in market some time around the time canada goes digital ? any info would fab


----------



## nycdigital09

Trip on your pictures whats that on pic 3 looks to me like either downlead or stubs on antenna bowties care to explain ?


----------



## Trip in VA

Plastic tubing covering the tips of the antenna.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19729587
> 
> 
> Plastic tubing covering the tips of the antenna.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Cool, did you design that yourself.


----------



## Trip in VA

I borrowed the overall design from Falcon_77, but the tubing on the end was my dad's idea because I couldn't get the ends to file down to what I considered to be a sufficiently smooth.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19730169
> 
> 
> I borrowed the overall design from Falcon_77, but the tubing on the end was my dad's idea because I couldn't get the ends to file down to what I considered to be a sufficiently smooth.
> 
> 
> - Trip



if you don't mind me asking why do you need the ends to be smooth, on my antenna i have ends open, the only thing i try to be careful i don't poke someone with the ends, lol I only sanded down the part of bowtie where the screw goes so it makes better contact.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19730395
> 
> 
> if you don't mind me asking why do you need the ends to be smooth



You answered your own question.



> Quote:
> the only thing i try to be careful i don't poke someone with the ends, lol



Bear in mind I lived in an apartment with multiple residents, including someone else in the same bedroom as me at the time the antenna was built.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19730405
> 
> 
> You answered your own question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bear in mind I lived in an apartment with multiple residents, including someone else in the same bedroom as me at the time the antenna was built.
> 
> 
> - Trip



ok i see, are you graduating in 2011 ? or you gonna still further your education, just a thought, my son is graduating next june, he goes to local college he wants to be a writer in the near future.


----------



## Trip in VA

Nope, I'm headed off to work. Dunno where yet. The sooner I'm out of school, the better. I'm sick to death of it.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

i hear ya, i recently completed a 13 week software training course, just attending 1 day a week and i was bushed, I can't imagine how you feel. are you trying to get hired here nyc area or you looking for work in va.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm willing to go where the work is, though rent would be significantly cheaper in the New York area. Haha.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19730794
> 
> 
> I'm willing to go where the work is, though rent would be significantly cheaper in the New York area. Haha.
> 
> 
> - Trip



you're joking right


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19728315
> 
> 
> I now know that amps for indoor antennas are useless for improving reception



Wrong.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19731364
> 
> 
> you're joking right



I could live with my grandmother.










- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19710967
> 
> 
> I built myself a bowtie scaled up to upper-VHF frequencies. Works very well. I have a post about it here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15526421
> 
> 
> I deleted the pictures off my server, so I've attached them to this message, though I did cut a few inches off the ends of each of the whiskers after that picture was taken and it improved it slightly. (My initial calculations for channel 11 were off.) It cost me nothing since I had all the materials, and I'm continually impressed by how well it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's only an inch or two on the ground here in Fair Lawn at the moment, but we're under a blizzard warning and supposed to get 10-15 inches.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Where can I order one? Is there free shipping?


Yes I am joking again lol


Very nice work trip. Can it also pick up uhf?


----------



## nycdigital09

Two antennas meet on a roof, fall in love and get married. The ceremony

wasn't much, but the reception was excellent.


If they have too many little 'uns, at meal time they'll have to set up a

feed line.



Unless they just consider them to be parasitic.


What did the antenna say to the TV?


''Without me, you'd be snowed in.''


I detect an "element" of humor in this thread.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19732450
> 
> 
> Very nice work trip. Can it also pick up uhf?



It picks up UHF to an extent, but it's not amazing. I use it successfully in Charlottesville on the UHFs while still catching WVPT-DT2 at 0.04 kW. Up here, it gets some of them but it's hard to find a position where all the UHFs are clean at the same time. The VHFs are pretty clean in most positions with it, I find.


Also, don't know if anyone noticed, but WDVB-LD 23 signed on. Currently only a test pattern. I have no idea what programming might be coming.


- Trip


----------



## icemannyr

I think WPIX needs to adjust it's encoder settings and take some bandwidth away from their 3 SD sub channels.

Any time there is a video transition effect on any WPIX program the video gets pixelated and soft for a few seconds after the transition before it clears up.

I did a recording of WPIX at 10pm Wednesday and it's 4.32 GB. So small you can fit it on a DVD-R.

Here's some examples of what happens during the transition,


----------



## nycdigital09

Also, don't know if anyone noticed, but WDVB-LD 23 signed on. Currently only a test pattern. I have no idea what programming might be coming.


- Trip


where do we aim the antenna to pickup 23


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/19737111
> 
> 
> I think WPIX needs to adjust it's encoder settings and take some bandwidth away from their 3 SD sub channels.
> 
> Any time there is a video transition effect on any WPIX program the video gets pixelated and soft for a few seconds after the transition before it clears up.
> 
> I did a recording of WPIX at 10pm Wednesday and it's 4.32 GB. So small you can fit it on a DVD-R.
> 
> Here's some examples of what happens during the transition,




take away, you mean give more bandwith to the subs, have you seen thistv when there is action part of movie it start to pixelate madly. I can't wait to see what the subs are be like when antennatv is added.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19737115
> 
> 
> where do we aim the antenna to pickup 23



ESB. It's very directional toward New Jersey. See here: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...&appid=1356184 


- Trip


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19737115
> 
> 
> Also, don't know if anyone noticed, but WDVB-LD 23 signed on. Currently only a test pattern. I have no idea what programming might be coming.
> 
> 
> - Trip
> 
> 
> where do we aim the antenna to pickup 23



Just noticed my DTVPal auto added them, 23.1 to 23.4. The 23.1 id says Edison, NJ NY, NY


No idea what the programing will be on these 4 stations?


Any chance it will be me.tv?


EDIT: A quick wiki search shows it will be asian programing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDVB-CA


----------



## nycdigital09

thanks any idea whats it erp is ? its coverage map range barely makes it into queens










never mind i found out just now. looks like its directional signal only at night time = DA


----------



## raj2001

I can pick up WDVB-LD here from ~48 miles away... Not bad.


I was picking it up earlier in the office on my small UHF loop.


----------



## Aero 1

we knew it was coming, but wpix 11.1 just made it official. They just ran an antenna tv promo saying "coming new years day, check your local listing"


----------



## ramonv

I just began to get channel 17 (religious and MBC) and channel 63 (WMBC, MBN, NDTD and others). I'm in the Bronx and I was never able to get these channels before. Channel 17's signal is weak but channel 63 is very strong.



I get the channels with an indoor antenna. (I live on a second floor).


----------



## Greg2600

Yeah, even I can get WDVB with old VHF rabbit ears. Right now there are 4 subs, all color bars. Then again, good old WASA is still on a Philips screen saver and coming soon on its channels. Owner of WDVB is Deepak Viswanath, which tells me content will probably be Indian. The LPTV stations are a bit annoying for me, as I don't pick up the Morristown repeater for WLNY, or the WKOB (RetroTV), and I'm not that far away.


PS: WNYE-2 has seemed to shift from 24/7 traffic cameras to actual decent content. As for WPIX, I don't think they care about the pixelation.


----------



## Straphanger

Has anyone had problems getting reception from channels 2, 7, 9, and 13? Ever since the blizzard blew through, I've lost a good chunk of signal from these channels and suffering occasional drop outs. I looked at my roof antenna and it looks like it hasn't really move and the guy wires are holding steady. Anyone else seeing this issue or do I really need to climb onto my roof and reposition? I'm about 8 miles east of the ESB in Queens.


----------



## SnellKrell

No difference with those channels and I use an indoor antenna.


My problem has been with 44.


----------



## Pavansitcoms

Is anyone seeing Antenna TV on WPIX 11.4 yet? If so, what is on it?


----------



## nycdigital09

does anyone see a test pattern icon on 11-4 yet ?


wkfc down here orlando its a wb station, their lineup includes:

18-1 main channel

18-2 thistv

18-3 Estrellatv


but their signal doesn't break up like pix. like a previous user mentioned, pix doesn't care if pixelates its no skin of their apple. pun intended.


btw i'm watchin emergency on retrotv looks pretty good, having watch this series long long time.


----------



## Pavansitcoms

Got my answer. 11.4 is up!


----------



## Pavansitcoms

They are showing clips of their shows. http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...&postcount=194


----------



## Trip in VA

Got it here. New data uploaded on RabbitEars.


It looks like WPIX is using static bitrate encoders on all four streams.


11-1 is at 10.5 Mbps, and is still at 1080i. I'll be keeping an eye on it in case it changes.

11-2 through 11-4 have 2.25 Mbps each.


Why they didn't invest in a stat muxer is beyond me. The picture on 11-1 in particular probably looks miserable, but I honestly haven't seen anything worth watching on 11-1 since I got here so I wouldn't know first-hand.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

Cool, where is larry curly moe, of course benny


----------



## Aero 1

I have never experienced any problems some of you guys describe. No pixilation on wpix or anything else. All other channels are perfect and ever had an issue, even during the blizzard.


Antenna tv was playing blind date with Bruce Willis and now it's off, nothing is playing.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19741545
> 
> 
> Got it here. New data uploaded on RabbitEars.
> 
> 
> It looks like WPIX is using static bitrate encoders on all four streams.
> 
> 
> 11-1 is at 10.5 Mbps, and is still at 1080i. I'll be keeping an eye on it in case it changes.
> 
> 11-2 through 11-4 have 2.25 Mbps each.
> 
> 
> Why they didn't invest in a stat muxer is beyond me. The picture on 11-1 in particular probably looks miserable, but I honestly haven't seen anything worth watching on 11-1 since I got here so I wouldn't know first-hand.
> 
> 
> - Trip



i don't watch pix lineup anyway except for loveable mets


----------



## SnellKrell

"11-1 is at 10.5 Mbps, and is still at 1080i."


Trip, thanks!


So much for our being led to believe that it was changing to 720p!


----------



## Trip in VA

The picture quality would probably be better if they flipped it to 720p.


They had pulled the feed off 11-4 but it's back up now.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19741663
> 
> 
> The picture quality would probably be better if they flipped it to 720p.
> 
> 
> They had pulled the feed off 11-4 but it's back up now.
> 
> 
> - Trip



There seems to be no LABEL or descriptions for Antenna tv. Instead it says DTV Antenna TV coming soon.


Any clue when they have the label and descriptions up and running? We are guessing a few days


----------



## Pavansitcoms

Any screenshots of 11.4?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19741545
> 
> 
> Why they didn't invest in a stat muxer is beyond me. The picture on 11-1 in particular probably looks miserable, but I honestly haven't seen anything worth watching on 11-1 since I got here so I wouldn't know first-hand.
> 
> 
> - Trip



It has a few good things, such as America's Next Top Model (my wife watches) and I think they had Smallville too.


Watching on my HD monitor it doesn't look all that bad, but it's definitely not like WCBS which is gorgeous. I'll have to try it on the large LCD we have upstairs.


And I guess the prediction about going to 720p didn't happen...yet, or maybe it won't happen at all.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19741633
> 
> 
> "11-1 is at 10.5 Mbps, and is still at 1080i."
> 
> 
> Trip, thanks!
> 
> 
> So much for our being led to believe that it was changing to 720p!



I would wait until tomorrow or even next week to see if that happens... After all, the network isn't even launched yet!


It aint over until the fat lady sings!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19742244
> 
> 
> It has a few good things, such as America's Next Top Model (my wife watches) and I think they had Smallville too.



CW network has absolutely nothing I watch. At home, there's some decent syndication on my local CW affiliate, but I haven't even found any of that on WPIX. Star Trek's on at 3AM for some reason.


- Trip


----------



## dswallow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pavansitcoms* /forum/post/19741401
> 
> 
> Is anyone seeing Antenna TV on WPIX 11.4 yet? If so, what is on it?



It's not New Years Day yet. That's when it starts.


----------



## Greg2600

Just started at midnight...











You know I almost wonder if ThisTV is probably a lousy feed to WPIX, because Estrella and Antenna are much much clearer.


----------



## yobiworld

WOW shocked that that a new channel aired when it said it would. Wow this really is a new year


----------



## yobiworld

what kind of movies will they be showing will they all be black and white hope not


----------



## Pavansitcoms

Movies are a mix of 1930s-1990s.


----------



## dtv_junkie87

First off, congrats on finally getting Antenna TV! I like the screenshot - that's proof that a great channel is up and running! As promised, no on-screen bugs whatsoever! The SD looks pretty good, too!


As for WPIX and the 1080i deal, glad to hear that as well. I know stations like WTTW Chicago and WDJT Milwaukee have one 1080i station plus 3 480i stations, all in the same channel stream.


And Trip: here in Dallas, my CW station (KDAF, also Tribune-owned like WPIX) has some pretty good syndication: we have _I Love Lucy_ and _Bewitched_, some Disney movies on weekend afternoons, and _This Old House Classics_ on Saturday mornings. I always steer clear of the _Jerry Springer_ and dating garbage, though.


----------



## keyboard21

Any clue when they have the label and descriptions up and running?


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19744751
> 
> 
> Any clue when they have the label and descriptions up and running?



If I remember correct it took PIX almost a week to get info going when they added this.tv.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19744814
> 
> 
> If I remember correct it took PIX almost a week to get info going when they added this.tv.



Yes ,but funny that not every movie on 11.3 thistv has a show description only a Label


----------



## R.F. Burns

Channel 23, WDVB is a new station I am receiving about 25 miles north of Manhattan. As of this moment it is running bars on all 4 channels and an ID of Edison N.J.


----------



## halsnook

Anybody else getting no audio on 11.4? It was working earlier today; now the Stooges are silent.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/19746275
> 
> 
> Channel 23, WDVB is a new station I am receiving about 25 miles north of Manhattan. As of this moment it is running bars on all 4 channels and an ID of Edison N.J.



Trip has info on www.rabbitears.info . They're broadcasting out of empire from what I understand.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *halsnook* /forum/post/19746585
> 
> 
> Anybody else getting no audio on 11.4? It was working earlier today; now the Stooges are silent.



Confirmed. No sound on 11.4. It's just not the same watching the stooges without actually being able to hear Moe slap Larry. I hope they fix it soon!


----------



## tahoejoe

Another confirmation here. No sound on my Polaroid DVR or my Insignia digital converter box.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *halsnook* /forum/post/19746585
> 
> 
> Anybody else getting no audio on 11.4? It was working earlier today; now the Stooges are silent.


----------



## nycdigital09

just got love it when new channel pops in. just about all ota forum members check in


----------



## Greg2600

sound is working again this morning.


----------



## MrKenmore

Any updates on the channel 2 CBS translator at the WLIW-21 facility? CBS2 coming in slightly spotted during the Jets game!


----------



## Roger Lococco

Antenna TV might as well be called the Benny Hill channel







, they've been showing episodes all day long, not that I'm complaining, most of those skits really do hold up well, and I remember everything about them, which is unusual since it's getting close to 30 years since I last watched them.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Trip has info on www.rabbitears.info . They're broadcasting out of empire from what I understand.



Almost all the TV & FM stations broadcast off the esb. Does it still have room on the transmuter floor and antenna mast? Makes more sense to use 4TS which only has two TV stations and three FM stations.


----------



## keyboard21

Did they raise the BIT Rate for THIS TV 11.3 Seems better Quality


I seem to recall Someone saying THIS TV was at 1.37 bit rate? Now I just remember reading it is over 2.50???


----------



## reddice

I am now typing on the computer so it is much easier to say what I want. I like Antenna TV but I am not pleased that the main WPIX 11.1 looks worse now. They should have at least got rid of that stupid Spanish station. That should be a sub of 41.1, 47.1 or 68.1. They could have just left This TV and Antenna TV.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19757612
> 
> 
> I am now typing on the computer so it is much easier to say what I want. I like Antenna TV but I am not pleased that the main WPIX 11.1 looks worse now. They should have at least got rid of that stupid Spanish station. That should be a sub of 41.1, 47.1 or 68.1. They could have just left This TV and Antenna TV.



Spanish Stations are making more money then THIS TV and Antenna TV combined. I read Univision is number 5 in ratings and is projected to be #1 in just 5 years. Amazing as it sounds. Spanish stations are big dollars. I personally would not mind if they were forced to have English subs or SAP. Just like English stations do for Spanish.


----------



## Greg2600

WPIX's aim is profit, not PQ.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19759138
> 
> 
> Spanish Stations are making more money then THIS TV and Antenna TV combined. I read Univision is number 5 in ratings and is projected to be #1 in just 5 years. Amazing as it sounds. Spanish stations are big dollars. I personally would not mind if they were forced to have English subs or SAP. Just like English stations do for Spanish.



I seriously doubt that Univision is earning the kind of money from its US facilities that CBS, NBC, ABC or Fox are earning and to assume that they will "out-profit" any of those mainstream OTA networks are earning, sounds hopeful at best.


While the Spanish speaking population is a large minority in this country, it is still dwarfed by its English speaking countrymen.


They probably make more than the CW and networks like that but those networks are not much bigger than their cable "network" competitors.


This is like those people who tout Fox news as having the LARGEST viewership on cable TV. While that is true their real viewer numbers are far behind those of ABC, NBC & CBS.



As to English language subchannels on Spanish language programs... Why? Sorry, there's plenty on English language TV for me to watch.


What I've seen on the Spanish language stations is of no interest to me.


The last time I actually looked forward to seeing anything on Ch's 41 or 47 (I can't remember which one) was when they ran "Los Tres Chiflados" (channel 68 wasn't Spanish back then) & I actually synched up the English language audio track on a reel reel tape to whatever episode was airing at the time. This was long before the age of home video tape recorders.


----------



## R.F. Burns

If there are any doubts, here's a link for your entertainment:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idMFx...eature=related


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/19761065
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that Univision is earning the kind of money from its US facilities that CBS, NBC, ABC or Fox are earning and to assume that they will "out-profit" any of those mainstream OTA networks are earning, sounds hopeful at best.
> 
> 
> While the Spanish speaking population is a large minority in this country, it is still dwarfed by its English speaking countrymen.
> 
> 
> They probably make more than the CW and networks like that but those networks are not much bigger than their cable "network" competitors.
> 
> 
> This is like those people who tout Fox news as having the LARGEST viewership on cable TV. While that is true their real viewer numbers are far behind those of ABC, NBC & CBS.
> 
> 
> 
> As to English language subchannels on Spanish language programs... Why? Sorry, there's plenty on English language TV for me to watch.
> 
> 
> What I've seen on the Spanish language stations is of no interest to me.
> 
> 
> The last time I actually looked forward to seeing anything on Ch's 41 or 47 (I can't remember which one) was when they ran "Los Tres Chiflados" (channel 68 wasn't Spanish back then) & I actually synched up the English language audio track on a reel reel tape to whatever episode was airing at the time. This was long before the age of home video tape recorders.



Sorry ,but you are incorrect. The Experts say different.

http://www.inflexwetrust.com/2010/12...ot-in-ratings/ 


That is just one example. I am looking for the article I read about a Spanish station Taking overall Number 5 in ratings and projected to be number 1 in 5 to 10 years.


You can disagree with the experts , but they know more then you. imo


----------



## nyctveng

this is slowly drifting into off topic of NYC OTA but sure univision may not be as profitable as the big 4 but spanish population is the fastest growing minority group and they are very profitable. why do u think nbc bought telemundo several years back? there are hundreds of english speaking channels while there are just a handful of major spanish stations so univision is competing with less.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/19761065
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt that Univision is earning the kind of money from its US facilities that CBS, NBC, ABC or Fox are earning and to assume that they will "out-profit" any of those mainstream OTA networks are earning, sounds hopeful at best.
> 
> 
> While the Spanish speaking population is a large minority in this country, it is still dwarfed by its English speaking countrymen.
> 
> 
> They probably make more than the CW and networks like that but those networks are not much bigger than their cable "network" competitors.
> 
> 
> This is like those people who tout Fox news as having the LARGEST viewership on cable TV. While that is true their real viewer numbers are far behind those of ABC, NBC & CBS.
> 
> 
> 
> As to English language subchannels on Spanish language programs... Why? Sorry, there's plenty on English language TV for me to watch.
> 
> 
> What I've seen on the Spanish language stations is of no interest to me.
> 
> 
> The last time I actually looked forward to seeing anything on Ch's 41 or 47 (I can't remember which one) was when they ran "Los Tres Chiflados" (channel 68 wasn't Spanish back then) & I actually synched up the English language audio track on a reel reel tape to whatever episode was airing at the time. This was long before the age of home video tape recorders.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19757612
> 
> 
> I am now typing on the computer so it is much easier to say what I want. I like Antenna TV but I am not pleased that the main WPIX 11.1 looks worse now. They should have at least got rid of that stupid Spanish station. That should be a sub of 41.1, 47.1 or 68.1. They could have just left This TV and Antenna TV.



reddice u just don't get it do u? in your world, subchannels should be grouped by genre. in reality they are grouped by ownership and/or who pays which station for carriage. why would univision carry say estrella if that is their competition? tribune the owners of wpix have been in financial trouble for some time and leasing subchannel and launching these crap subchannels are a way to profit hopefully.


----------



## nycdigital09

if you're looking for tv listings for nyc ota channels including antennatv use zap2it.com

link http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti...eupId=PC:11369


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19762221
> 
> 
> Sorry ,but you are incorrect. The Experts say different.
> 
> http://www.inflexwetrust.com/2010/12...ot-in-ratings/
> 
> 
> That is just one example. I am looking for the article I read about a Spanish station Taking overall Number 5 in ratings and projected to be number 1 in 5 to 10 years.
> 
> 
> You can disagree with the experts , but they know more then you. imo



Your example is the opinion of the Univision president. By the way, *I work in the industry* and have fairly good insight as well.



Yes, Hispanics are the fastest growing minority in our country. I'd hope that as they merge into the general population, as has every other divergent immigrant group, they will learn to speak English and join our society as opposed to living in a parallel universe. Using this gentleman's logic, the Spanish speaking population will continue to live outside of the mainstream English speaking population, which really isn't good for anyone.


In the not too distant past we had radio stations in the United States which catered to those who spoke any number of foreign languages. We still do in NY with Korean, Russian, Urdu, Polish & Chinese broadcasters all available, many broadcasting 24/7 over the NYC airwaves.


While first generation immigrants are not surprisingly drawn to broadcasts from their previous homelands, broadcasting in languages that their minority viewers understand, it would not be healthy for our country if generation after generation of American born citizens don't take on and speak the language of their adopted country.


I've worked with people from many parts of the world, some of whom have come to this county as children of parents who had very limited knowledge of the English language. You have to have some knowledge of English to become a citizen of this country. At least that's what a NY state judge said to us during my last call to jury duty.



I realize that this is off topic and its not meant to insult the Hispanic population but the point still is that for a Spanish language broadcaster to become the number one network, it would mean that the majority of American viewers speak or understand Spanish and that is just not true, nationally. No, I'd say that his is a bit of wishful thinking.


By the way, NBC also co-owns MSNBC. CBS owns Simon and Schuster, BET TV, The CW. Fox owns a TV Network, a cable news outlet, a radio network, a movie studio, newspapers, magazines and on and on. It's called diversification.


Just because NBC owns Telemundo doesn't mean that they expect the traditional NBC TV network to take second place in the earnings department.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/19764304
> 
> 
> 
> Just because NBC owns Univision doesn't mean that they expect the traditional NBC TV network to take second place in the earnings department.



NBC owns Telemundo.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/19764555
> 
> 
> NBC owns Telemundo.



I should have known that. I've passed it many times when I've driven through Ft Lee. It's located in the old C-NBC building. C-NBC has since moved further north up Rt 9W.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19759138
> 
> 
> Spanish Stations are making more money then THIS TV and Antenna TV combined. I read Univision is number 5 in ratings and is projected to be #1 in just 5 years. Amazing as it sounds. Spanish stations are big dollars. I personally would not mind if they were forced to have English subs or SAP. Just like English stations do for Spanish.



I could believe that, since a large portion of OTA viewers are hispanic/latino and there are so few spanish language networks now so viewers are concentrated into a few places and not spread out across all of the English speaking channels.


----------



## Greg2600

The highest rated radio stations in the NYC market are Spanish.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19766976
> 
> 
> I could believe that, since a large portion of OTA viewers are hispanic/latino and there are so few spanish language networks now so viewers are concentrated into a few places and not spread out across all of the English speaking channels.





No doubt that ch's 41, 47 & 68 each have larger audiences than both WPIX English language subchannels.


First, Antenna TV is too new to have more than a handful of viewers. Other than forums such as this one or by channel surfing how would you know these channels exist?


There are only 3 or 4 shows on THISTV I would watch, and they all run between 5 AM & 7 AM. The only shows I watch on THISTV are Highway Patrol, Patty Duke, Mr Ed and occassionally The Outer Limits. Actually, I record Highway Patrol onto DVD each morning. Unfortunately Antenna TV is running so few of the older black & white shows from the 1950's but I'm sure their demographic appeal is limited. The shows they are running have been around for years. I'd like to see shows such as The Millionaire You Bet Your Life, Topper, & Life Of Riley. The chances of that happening are slim to no chance.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19768324
> 
> 
> The highest rated radio stations in the NYC market are Spanish.



This is not relevant to this NY OTA TV thread and more importantly, it's a ridiculous comment aimed at causing controversy.


----------



## mets18




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/19764304
> 
> 
> for a Spanish language broadcaster to become the number one network, it would mean that the majority of American viewers speak or understand Spanish



How do you figure? The number one network doesn't have to have a majority of the viewers just a plurality.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19768324
> 
> 
> The highest rated radio stations in the NYC market are Spanish.



Nuh-uh. The top dog in the NYC market is Lite FM 106.7. The only Spanish station to even make the top 10 is Mega 97.9 (WSKQ) which is 6th place behind popular stations Lite FM, CBS FM, KTU, Z100 and 77 WABC.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/19768402
> 
> 
> This is not relevant to this NY OTA TV thread and more importantly, it's a ridiculous comment aimed at causing controversy.



More importantly it's not even true!


The top rated station is rightfully 106.7 Lite FM. Go to any office where they play the radio during the day... guess what they're playing? Yep, lite FM!


Most of the rest are the usual suspects - 77 WABC, KTU, Q104, WCBS 880, Z100, WBLS etc.


----------



## DrDon

Let's keep it on topic, sports fans. If anyone needs any radio ratings information, PM me. I'm full of it. Ok, that didn't come out quite right...


----------



## reddice

Sorry I did not mean to start a heated debate. I do like the HD Spanish stations 41, 47 & 68. They look great.


My problem is when they add ANY extra subs and the main HD channel PQ gets worse I don't like. Look at 2 & 47. No subs and they look great.


----------



## R.F. Burns

Quote:

Originally Posted by *DrDon* 
Let's keep it on topic, sports fans. If anyone needs any radio ratings information, PM me. I'm full of it. Ok, that didn't come out quite right...
Considering all, I think the word I'd use to describe you would be patient.



Thank you!


----------



## DrDon

Burns...



...I see what you did there!


----------



## icemannyr

WPIX has to do something with the PQ on 11.1 HD. The macroblocking is real bad.

They simply can not support 3 SD sub channels and have decent video quality on 11.1 with the current encoding method.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/19772089
> 
> 
> WPIX has to do something with the PQ on 11.1 HD. The macroblocking is real bad.
> 
> They simply can not support 3 SD sub channels and have decent video quality on 11.1 with the current encoding method.



they don't care, they're making tons of money


----------



## Greg2600

I'd say email WPIX and complain, but they don't respond.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/19773168
> 
> 
> I'd say email WPIX and complain, but they don't respond.




They might care when the first Mets game airs and people complain then.


----------



## multipath

Has WPIX or Thirteen ever increased their signal strength? I remember that, around summer, ABC finally boosted its signal power. But because I haven't visited these forums in a while, I don't know if there were improvements to the other VHF-H stations.


----------



## SnellKrell

No!


----------



## multipath

Has WPIX or Thirteen at least applied for signal boost with the FCC?


----------



## SnellKrell

I don't believe so.


Both stations are broke.


----------



## Trip in VA

There are also interference concerns that would have to be addressed before they could apply for more, particularly WPIX. Last time I saw, they're already causing a large amount of interference to WTNH-10 as far as the FCC is concerned (3-4% maybe?), and would have to have an interference agreement with them.


WNET probably isn't in as bad a boat, but I suspect would need an agreement like that from WPRI or WHYY maybe.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19774756
> 
> 
> There are also interference concerns that would have to be addressed before they could apply for more, particularly WPIX. Last time I saw, they're already causing a large amount of interference to WTNH-10 as far as the FCC is concerned (3-4% maybe?), and would have to have an interference agreement with them.
> 
> 
> WNET probably isn't in as bad a boat, but I suspect would need an agreement like that from WPRI or WHYY maybe.
> 
> 
> - Trip



trip, you really think so. wpri is from rhode island if I'm not mistaking thats more 100+ miles from esb, from that distance can they still interfere with each other? imho I would think that distance would be enough padding for any stray signal to reach each others. 

btw i use to pick wnac fox 64 back on days when analog ruled !! lol


----------



## Trip in VA

It's 160 miles, so you could be right. Maybe I'll try to do something to see what the current interference numbers are. We'll see.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

last night ch32,35 came in pretty good, i think they only transmit in the night time.

their programming leaves alot to be desired. trip you wanted to get readings from those 2 lps. can't get 23 to lock like you guys do, must be directional beam. more snow tomorrow


----------



## nycdigital09

trip maybe you can help me identify a tv station out norfolk portsmouth virginia area, when analog was going on, I dxed tv station they were on ch 27, they showed the ny mets minor league games, like i said many many years ago. the team was the tidewater mets, team is no longer affiliated with ny mets. they have since joined the enemy the *phillies*. Im not sure of where exactly where the station originated. maybe you know, being that you're close to norfolk. ?


ps It has always stayed in my mind, is a bugger lol


----------



## KML-224

WGNT-TV channel 27 of Portsmouth, VA. I do believe that was the station.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yep, WGNT.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

i just did a google on wgnt youre previous post came up allready, could be that station or there is also another 27 more inboard closer to richmond ?

wiki doesnt mention anything bout the mets thnxs trip


----------



## KML-224

There's WHTM-TV (ABC) channel 27 of Harrisburg, PA. That's their old analog channel, as they're using channel 10 for digital now.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/19780633
> 
> 
> There's WHTM-TV (ABC) channel 27 of Harrisburg, PA. That's their old analog channel, as they're using channel 10 for digital now.



never picked that station up. but I did pick up ch43 out harrisburg or lancaster/york pa.


----------



## SemiChemE

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* 
There are also interference concerns that would have to be addressed before they could apply for more, particularly WPIX. Last time I saw, they're already causing a large amount of interference to WTNH-10 as far as the FCC is concerned (3-4% maybe?), and would have to have an interference agreement with them.


WNET probably isn't in as bad a boat, but I suspect would need an agreement like that from WPRI or WHYY maybe.


- Trip
I'm surprised WABC was allowed to boost their signal. The boost killed WXXA for me and I can now get neither. I'm ~65 miles from both towers. On the other hand, WPIX is one of my strongest stations, while WNET is marginal with good days and bad days.


All I can say is that DTV kind of sucks for those of us sitting just over the edge of the cliff.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *SemiChemE* 
I'm surprised WABC was allowed to boost their signal. The boost killed WXXA for me and I can now get neither. I'm ~65 miles from both towers. On the other hand, WPIX is one of my strongest stations, while WNET is marginal with good days and bad days.


All I can say is that DTV kind of sucks for those of us sitting just over the edge of the cliff.
what antenna system are you using ? if you are not using a 91xg and ya1713 along with a cm 7777 from that distance you probably gonna suffer.


----------



## Greg2600

I have FIOS TV, and WPIX is highly compressed, blocky, etc. on there. Verizon does not take the signal from the OTA transmission as the primary (backup yes), so there's no reason for this. Except that this is how WPIX has chosen to deliver their signal, highly compressed.


----------



## yobiworld

Wmbc Is adding a new sub channel called Sinovis i believe they are running tests. When i scanned i saw it but no picture


----------



## SemiChemE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19785979
> 
> 
> what antenna system are you using ? if you are not using a 91xg and ya1713 along with a cm 7777 from that distance you probably gonna suffer.



For NYC stations, I've got a modified YA-1713 (extended boom). Holl_ands did some simulations here:

http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/wgya1713 


I also have a very old Taco Electron VHF antenna and an Antennas Direct C4 UHF antenna, pointed toward Albany. All antennas are attic mounts (wife went nuts when I tried to move all 3 antennas to the roof, so that's a no go). The VHF antenna's are connected through a series of A-B switches and a VHF Lo-Hi joiner, such that I can easily switch between NYC and Albany for VHF-hi, while WRGB-6 is always present on VHF-lo. The VHF and UHF signals are combined through a CM-7777 preamp.


From an antenna standpoint, I think this is about as good as I'm going to get on VHF. The Winegard HD 8200U has slightly better specs, but that thing is a beast! As for UHF, I debate whether to upgrade to a better antenna. The C4 does pretty well on the Albany stations (except WCWN, although I understand the broadcaster has plans for an antenna upgrade that should improve the signal for those of us here to the south). I'm doubtful that I'll be able to get much UHF from NYC due to Mount Beacon and other topography between here and NYC. On the other hand, I am currently picking up WNJU-36 and a weak (undecodable) WNYW-44 off the back of the C4 and I occasionally get others (WNJB, WNYE, WCBS) with favorable atmospherics, so perhaps there is some hope.


----------



## dvdchance

Just looked this morning and I'm getting program names and info for antenna tv.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have FIOS TV, and WPIX is highly compressed, blocky, etc. on there. Verizon does not take the signal from the OTA transmission as the primary (backup yes), so there's no reason for this. Except that this is how WPIX has chosen to deliver their signal, highly compressed.



Networks don't provide cable companies a feed that is less compressed than the OTA feed. Cable company generally will not devote more than 19.4 megabits for a local stations hd and sub channels which is the same bandwith an OTA 8vsb signal.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19789949
> 
> 
> Networks don't provide cable companies a feed that is less compressed than the OTA feed. Cable company generally will not devote more than 19.4 megabits for a local stations hd and sub channels which is the same bandwith an OTA 8vsb signal.



What happened to your "fact" that WPIX was switching to 720p?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to your "fact" that WPIX was switching to 720p?



I said it was a fact that wpix will be 720p with 3 subs. Well today there are 3 sub channels when most others said Estrella was gonna be dropped. Just cause wpix has not switched to 720p doesn't mean it won't happen in the near future. They better do something soon as picture quality is awful on all 4 services.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, for the umpteenth time, WPIX has never split their signal 4 ways. Something is going to give and it's going to be EstrellaTV.



I guess u were wrong


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19790753
> 
> 
> I guess u were wrong



My prediction was based on past history.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19789423
> 
> 
> Just looked this morning and I'm getting program names and info for antenna tv.



So that includes descriptions of the programs shows?


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19793282
> 
> 
> So that includes descriptions of the programs shows?



indeed


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/19794911
> 
> 
> indeed



Well I think it is now safe to say that RTV is blown out of water now. No way they can compete with Antenna TV. RTV had the idea and Tribune took it and ran with it. With a major network backing a channel. A small Channel like RTV can not make it.


Of course I would like us to get all stations, but 2 old TV channels is over kill.


RTV needs to move to a better carrier antenna and change format to a CNN type channel.







imo


----------



## multipath

WPIX signal is very weak, so RTV can still change the game if they found a home with the subchannels of a station with strong signal, such as CBS NBC or Fox.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *multipath* 
WPIX signal is very weak, so RTV can still change the game if they found a home with the subchannels of a station with strong signal, such as CBS NBC or Fox.
why doesn't retrotv go to either wasa or ch39, those 2 have sub channels that are vacant.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multipath* /forum/post/19799494
> 
> 
> WPIX signal is very weak, so RTV can still change the game if they found a home with the subchannels of a station with strong signal, such as CBS NBC or Fox.



Weak signal? Maybe for you? It is 85% to 90's for me. CBS, nbc, fox, are 98%


So never a problem with WPIX at all.


Maybe it is just your location or antenna?


Chances that RTV would find a home with a major?


Unless WPIX has a real winner with Antenna TV


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/19802004
> 
> 
> Weak signal? Maybe for you? It is 85% to 90's for me. CBS, nbc, fox, are 98%
> 
> 
> So never a problem with WPIX at all.
> 
> 
> Maybe it is just your location or antenna?
> 
> 
> Chances that RTV would find a home with a major?
> 
> 
> Unless WPIX has a real winner with Antenna TV



thats excellent reception wise, are using any splitters or direct hookup? can you pickup njn or wfme or ch 23 ?


----------



## LenL

Yesterday afternoon both were down for some time. Don't know how long as I did not bother to check. My mom called to ask why she could not get 5.1. This was around 5 PM. I checked and I could not get it either. Then I checked 9.1 and it was down too. I checked again around 9:30 and the stations were back.


I don't usually watch much on 5.1 or 9.1 so I can't give much more info. Anyone else have the same issue? Anyone know what the outage was about?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19807077
> 
> 
> Yesterday afternoon both were down for some time. Don't know how long as I did not bother to check. My mom called to ask why she could not get 5.1. This was around 5 PM. I checked and I could not get it either. Then I checked 9.1 and it was down too. I checked again around 9:30 and the stations were back.
> 
> 
> I don't usually watch much on 5.1 or 9.1 so I can't give much more info. Anyone else have the same issue? Anyone know what the outage was about?



I seen that scenario before fox 5.1 just goes out like someone hit a light switch then to reappear later on like nothing has happened. this can happen anytime including prime time, same 9.1. my hypothesis is that both stations are still having issues with HD gear. my s/n ratio on both station are always the same around 75. not as good as pix 11 or 13 which is 90's. is 3 years since digital transition and both stations are still having issues.


----------



## reddice

Channels 11 & 13 have much better reception now. Summer last year they were terrible especially channel 13. It could just be because of the cold weather because since October 2010 channel 13 is rock solid in the 70s.


It does not matter much now that Dish carries channels 13 & 58 in HD now.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19805364
> 
> 
> thats excellent reception wise, are using any splitters or direct hookup? can you pickup njn or wfme or ch 23 ?



I use a Terk -55 antenna now for over 10 years. it has a built in amp to turn on and off.


I got the same reception with the CLEARSTREAM C2 So I returned it. This was rated #2 from these boards. So I tried


No getting any channel father then 14 miles away. So NOTHING from NJ and no WLIW


We are 7 miles from ESB so we get 36 to 40 channels or so. Including SUBS.


The hookup:


No splitters. Using DISHPAL DVR box. With improved better tuner.


Use RG6 (HD READY) Cable from TERK. Got it at best buy. That increased our reception by 5 points. 15" cord


Apartment is facing ESB.


Just lucky I suppose. The building disconnected the LARGE antenna years ago on the roof. They get kickbacks from RCN. imo


So after many months of playing with indoor antenna. I found the SWEET SPOT.


----------



## Aero 1

I never had an issue with WPiX either. When the fourth sub came aboard, I saw a slight drop, but I can't understand why.


This is what my HDHomerun is pulling in, at the end of a 2 way splitter hooked up to a 4 way splitter. My tivos are showing pix in the 90s.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/19812001
> 
> 
> I never had an issue with WPiX either. When the fourth sub came aboard, I saw a slight drop, but I can't understand why.
> 
> 
> This is what my HDHomerun is pulling in, at the end of a 2 way splitter hooked up to a 4 way splitter. My tivos are showing pix in the 90s.



you must pickup wnjn channel 50 pretty easy from your location. are you using an outdoor antenna? what type ? do you receive wliw ch 21 from your location? i can pickup 21 here but is not very strong signal. I love their programming specially world, but is not hd station.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19809978
> 
> 
> Channels 11 & 13 have much better reception now. Summer last year they were terrible especially channel 13. It could just be because of the cold weather because since October 2010 channel 13 is rock solid in the 70s.
> 
> 
> It does not matter much now that Dish carries channels 13 & 58 in HD now.



you pickin up a better signal because there is no more leaves on trees


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> you must pickup wnjn channel 50 pretty easy from your location. are you using an outdoor antenna? what type ? do you receive wliw ch 21 from your location? i can pickup 21 here but is not very strong signal. I love their programming specially world, but is not hd station.



I'm using a db4 UHF joined with a cs5 hi VHF joined on the roof. Luckily where I am, channels 50 tower is 3 miles away in Montclair, right in the middle of the path between ESB and my antenna. I can see the tower from my roof. you can see the signal strength in the attachment above.


I can't pick up 21, it's about 30 degrees off to the north, almost 50 miles away with all of NYC blocking the way.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Aero 1* 
I'm using a db4 UHF joined with a cs5 hi VHF joined on the roof. Luckily where I am, channels 50 tower is 3 miles away in Montclair, right in the middle of the path between ESB and my antenna. I can see the tower from my roof. you can see the signal strength in the attachment above.


I can't pick up 21, it's about 30 degrees off to the north, almost 50 miles away with all of NYC blocking the way.
cool, i been checkin prices on db2 antenna then comparing it to db4 for some reason the db2 is more expensive than a db4. my understanding is that db2 is bit more omni directional than db4. i use yagi type uhf from my roof i have it aimed north and i pickup poughkeepsie and connecticut on refracted signal and nyc signals of the back.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19814317
> 
> 
> cool, i been checkin prices on db2 antenna then comparing it to db4 for some reason the db2 is more expensive than a db4. my understanding is that db2 is bit more omni directional than db4. i use yagi type uhf from my roof i have it aimed north and i pickup poughkeepsie and connecticut on refracted signal and nyc signals of the back.



you're looking in the wrong place, the db2 is cheaper than the db4, its about 10 bucks cheaper on amazon


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> cool, i been checkin prices on db2 antenna then comparing it to db4 for some reason the db2 is more expensive than a db4.



That would be pretty odd given that the DB2's MSRP is $20 less than the DB4.



> Quote:
> my understanding is that db2 is bit more omni directional than db4.



No, they have the same horizontal polar pattern. The difference in gain is achieved by "squeezing" the pattern in the vertical axis yielding a narrower vertical polar pattern.



> Quote:
> I can't pick up 21, it's about 30 degrees off to the north, almost 50 miles away with all of NYC blocking the way.



WLIW-21 would be a pretty hard catch for folks in your situation given it's low transmitting power and short tower. They do have a pending application for a power increase along with a slight increase in antenna height. It's been sitting there for more than two years so I don't know what its status is.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ADTech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> That would be pretty odd given that the DB2's MSRP is $20 less than the DB4.
> 
> 
> No, they have the same horizontal polar pattern. The difference in gain is achieved by "squeezing" the pattern in the vertical axis yielding a narrower vertical polar pattern.
> 
> 
> WLIW-21 would be a pretty hard catch for folks in your situation given it's low transmitting power and short tower. They do have a pending application for a power increase along with a slight increase in antenna height. It's been sitting there for more than two years so I don't know what its status is.



You know, this brings up a question. I don't know much about this yet since I just went OTA a few months ago and maybe you or someone can answer it.


So if 21 increases power and height and I would be able to get it, and since it's about 30 degrees off from ESB, so I have to re aim my "multidirectional" antenna? Will it pick it up if it's pointed at ESB? Do I aim it between ESB and 21?


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/19815481
> 
> 
> You know, this brings up a question. I don't know much about this yet since I just went OTA a few months ago and maybe you or someone can answer it.
> 
> 
> So if 21 increases power and height and I would be able to get it, and since it's about 30 degrees off from ESB, so I have to re aim my "multidirectional" antenna? Will it pick it up if it's pointed at ESB? Do I aim it between ESB and 21?



I'd suspect not. You'd still likely have to face your "multi-directional" antenna at WLIW's transmission site. Even if the requested upgrade is built, their signal isn't going to improve much in your direction and is still going to be quite weak.


----------



## LenL

I can't receive it but I am on the back side of a hill. However my mother is only 1/2 mile from me as the crow flies and she can receive WLIW. Mostly locked in and sometimes drops signal but very watchable. She prefers it over WNET and NJ PBS stations.


Bottom line is that if she can get it at our distance I think someone in Totowa has a good shot.


----------



## rothe

I can actually pull in WLIW, from 50 miles away. Since I can't get a lock on WNET, I'm pretty happy about getting WLIW.


The question on my mind is if/when will they ever switch to a high-def signal, either 720p or 1080i? Any thoughts on this, folks? Any evidence for your thinking?


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19819921
> 
> 
> I can't receive it but I am on the back side of a hill. However my mother is only 1/2 mile from me as the crow flies and she can receive WLIW. Mostly locked in and sometimes drops signal but very watchable. She prefers it over WNET and NJ PBS stations.
> 
> 
> Bottom line is that if she can get it at our distance I think someone in Totowa has a good shot.



It's certainly worth trying if you're in a decent location with good LOS towards WLIW. Try a fringe/deep-fringe Yagi with a low-noise pre-amp for best results.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/19820707
> 
> 
> The question on my mind is if/when will they ever switch to a high-def signal, either 720p or 1080i? Any thoughts on this, folks? Any evidence for your thinking?



Or at the very least transmit in 16:9 as most of their shows are in widescreen.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/19820785
> 
> 
> Or at the very least transmit in 16:9 as most of their shows are in widescreen.



Early on, WLIW did broadcast PBS HD programming and then stopped.


I would imagine the economy, then as now, precludes the station from doing anything different. These are tough times!


----------



## LenL

I might be getting my mom a HD TV for her birthday. SssssH it's a secret!


As far as Consumer Reports is concerned they don't rate TVs based on their OTA tuners. My 2 Sharp HD TV's have tuners that are outdone by my DTVPAL DVR tuner.


So I would like to know if anyone has found any info on which TVs have the best OTA tuners? Personal opinions are welcome too.


As stated earlier she receives WLIW with an RCA converter box. I would hate to upgrade her to an HD TV and find she can no longer pull in WLIW. I will be in big trouble.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19821826
> 
> 
> I might be getting my mom a HD TV for her birthday. SssssH it's a secret!
> 
> 
> As far as Consumer Reports is concerned they don't rate TVs based on their OTA tuners. My 2 Sharp HD TV's have tuners that are outdone by my DTVPAL DVR tuner.
> 
> 
> So I would like to know if anyone has found any info on which TVs have the best OTA tuners? Personal opinions are welcome too.
> 
> 
> As stated earlier she receives WLIW with an RCA converter box. I would hate to upgrade her to an HD TV and find she can no longer pull in WLIW. I will be in big trouble.



Suggestion: be sure the set you buy for her includes an analog input for you to connect video and left and right from the old RCA converter box. Set the old RCA box to WLIW and show her how to jump there from the new set's built-in tuner (only necessary if new set's WLIW reception is crappy). I overlooked the analog input on my new Sharp Aquos and had to buy an analog to HDMI converter from eBay to bring in local DTV subchannels not included in the Cable lineup I subscribe to from my old Zenith DTT901 set top box. You'll need a 2-way antenna divider and hopefully the extra 3db loss won't hurt her off-air reception too much.


----------



## reddice

More people watch the main 720p or 1080i HD channel than the useless 480i cruddy subs. Why do stations like channel 7 & 11 have to add extra subs to make the main picture look terrible? All stations should follow channel 2.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19824825
> 
> 
> More people watch the main 720p or 1080i HD channel than the useless 480i cruddy subs. Why do stations like channel 7 & 11 have to add extra subs to make the main picture look terrible? All stations should follow channel 2.



Some like the movies and old tv shows on 11


----------



## keyboard21

Trp in VA any rumors on what Sub channel is next? Anything good?


----------



## LenL

Thanks George for the tip on using the RCA converter box option with the HD TV. It's one option I could try in a pinch.


However the question is still out there. Does anyone know of any reviews of HD TV's that include the OTA tuners? Also it would seem with all the people (there are millions of us) that are OTA we should have someone reviewing TV sets including a test of OTA tuners. I wish I had the money and equipment and I would provide the service. It could be an internet website!


----------



## nycdigital09

So I would like to know if anyone has found any info on which TVs have the best OTA tuners? Personal opinions are welcome too. posted by LenL


zenith dtt 901 has good sensetive tuner, which is made by lg electronics. hence LG lcds have good tuners i have 32 inch LG lcd which is comparable to zenith.


----------



## AloEuro

Gentlemen, in the New year may the Father who are in heaven bless you and members of your family on earth, may the God give you good health and protect you and your family day and night all year long, may the Lord give you prosperous year and be with you and your loved ones throughout the year, just few names as on page - nycdigital09, LenL, keyboard21, reddice, George Molnar, SnellKrell,mikepier, ADTech, rothe, Aero 1, R.F. Burns, Trip,raj, the Dr and Ken H, and all other members almost Mil. mark.

Feliz ano Nuevo


----------



## dvdchance

Seems ch 23 has gone off the air. Can anyone get it? It usually comes in strong for me and I check when I remember to see if it has any programing yet.


----------



## LenL

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AloEuro* 
Gentlemen, in the New year may the Father who are in heaven bless you and members of your family on earth, may the God give you good health and protect you and your family day and night all year long, may the Lord give you prosperous year and be with you and your loved ones throughout the year, just few names as on page - nycdigital09, LenL, keyboard21, reddice, George Molnar, SnellKrell,mikepier, ADTech, rothe, Aero 1, R.F. Burns, Trip,raj, the Dr and Ken H, and all other members almost Mil. mark.

Feliz ano Nuevo
You're a little late! It's 1/14/2011! Thanks anyway but we really need your blessings directed at the ESB and the transmission of better and more powerful broadcast signals in the coming year! That would really make us posters happy!!!!!


----------



## LenL

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
So I would like to know if anyone has found any info on which TVs have the best OTA tuners? Personal opinions are welcome too. posted by LenL


zenith dtt 901 has good sensetive tuner, which is made by lg electronics. hence LG lcds have good tuners i have 32 inch LG lcd which is comparable to zenith.
Thanks! Good info about LG TV Tuners I did not know. I think LG TVs are receiving good reviews from Consumer Reports. Something I will strongly consider!


----------



## yobiworld

What the hell is going on with Wasa that network is so retarded. How the hell they only showing infomercials for damn near 2 years.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What the hell is going on with Wasa that network is so retarded. How the hell they only showing infomercials for damn near 2 years.



programming the bare minimum to stay on air in hopes of cable carriage. good programming costs money. infomercials makes money even if no one is watching.


----------



## raj2001

There's one around here that is infomercials only, WNJJ-LD.


My guess is that they're keeping the frequency occupied until they can get proper programming.


----------



## rcc147

Hoping someone can help me with a reception question.


I live in Brooklyn (11208) and pick up two Chinese channels (63.4 and 63.5) with very strong signals on four tuners (two tv's and two additional digital converter boxes). I understand these are transmitted from one of the tall buildings in Times Square, around 10 miles away.


My friend, in Queens (11361), is around 14 miles from Times Square but cannot pick up these channels at all. He has a Winegard Ghostkiller (on top of roof, around 30ft from ground) and a fairly new Samsung HDTV. He picks up all the other ones I get with a great signal (CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS stations etc), but is just missing these two channels.


Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcc147* /forum/post/19845362
> 
> 
> Hoping someone can help me with a reception question.
> 
> 
> I live in Brooklyn (11208) and pick up two Chinese channels (63.4 and 63.5) with very strong signals on four tuners (two tv's and two additional digital converter boxes). I understand these are transmitted from one of the tall buildings in Times Square, around 10 miles away.
> 
> 
> My friend, in Queens (11361), is around 14 miles from Times Square but cannot pick up these channels at all. dinhas a Winegard Ghostkiller (on top of roof, around 30ft from ground) and a fairly new Samsung HDTV. He picks up all the other ones I get with a great signal (CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS stations etc), but is just missing these two channels.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you!



He should be able to, that signal is a monster. wmbc 63 transmits from esb, your friend needs to get a better uhf antenna, ei. small yagi type, the ghost killer antenna is dinosaur. he probably has lots of buildings obstructing his signal. if he needs additional help ask your friend to join the forum


----------



## nyc2010

perhaps he needs a new antenna? those channels are coming in loud and clear.



you can also try building a homemade one just to make sure it is the roof antenna and not something else that is causing the issue.


----------



## nyc2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19826879
> 
> 
> So I would like to know if anyone has found any info on which TVs have the best OTA tuners? Personal opinions are welcome too. posted by LenL
> 
> 
> zenith dtt 901 has good sensetive tuner, which is made by lg electronics. hence LG lcds have good tuners i have 32 inch LG lcd which is comparable to zenith.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19826657
> 
> 
> Thanks George for the tip on using the RCA converter box option with the HD TV. It's one option I could try in a pinch.
> 
> 
> However the question is still out there. Does anyone know of any reviews of HD TV's that include the OTA tuners? Also it would seem with all the people (there are millions of us) that are OTA we should have someone reviewing TV sets including a test of OTA tuners. I wish I had the money and equipment and I would provide the service. It could be an internet website!



some tv reviews do talk about the OTA tuner, but that is not the norm. mostly if you read through user reviews, someone will mention about the OTA tuner.


does anyone know if any TV has the same tuner that is inside the Channel Master DTV box? i find that is the most sensitive tuner.


Zenith Dtv box is the second best. is that really LG tuner? i tested this vs an LG tv and the Zenith box seems to work better than the TV tuner. assuming they are both same tuners, anyone know why?


I also tested the Sharp TV tuner, it seems to work about the same as the LG tv tuner.

but both were outperformed by Channel Master and Zenith Dtv boxes.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcc147* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hoping someone can help me with a reception question.
> 
> 
> I live in Brooklyn (11208) and pick up two Chinese channels (63.4 and 63.5) with very strong signals on four tuners (two tv's and two additional digital converter boxes). I understand these are transmitted from one of the tall buildings in Times Square, around 10 miles away.
> 
> 
> My friend, in Queens (11361), is around 14 miles from Times Square but cannot pick up these channels at all. He has a Winegard Ghostkiller (on top of roof, around 30ft from ground) and a fairly new Samsung HDTV. He picks up all the other ones I get with a great signal (CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS stations etc), but is just missing these two channels.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you!



ghost killer may be an old antenna but it should still work to get all the locals from empire and times square. WMBC is strong enough to be picked up with rabbit ears in most of queens. Make sure friend's antenna is pointed in the general direction of empire state building. Many ppl have not been up on their rooftops in 20 years and still have antennas pointed to direction of WTC.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19847068
> 
> 
> He should be able to, that signal is a monster. wmbc 63 transmits from esb, your friend needs to get a better uhf antenna, ei. small yagi type, the ghost killer antenna is dinosaur. he probably has lots of buildings obstructing his signal. if he needs additional help ask your friend to join the forum



Does WMBC really broadcast off the ESB? It makes sense since I get it so strong now. When it was in NJ it was just a pixelated mess.


Can the ESB even handle the load of all of these TV and FM channels?


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19847068
> 
> 
> He should be able to, that signal is a monster. wmbc 63 transmits from esb, your friend needs to get a better uhf antenna, ei. small yagi type, the ghost killer antenna is dinosaur. he probably has lots of buildings obstructing his signal. if he needs additional help ask your friend to join the forum





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19853154
> 
> 
> Does WMBC really broadcast off the ESB? It makes sense since I get it so strong now. When it was in NJ it was just a pixelated mess.
> 
> 
> Can the ESB even handle the load of all of these TV and FM channels?



If you check the filing you will find that WMBC uses a highly directional antenna at ESB and that antenna fires toward the SE. Further, because the antenna is side-mounted on the building and not on the top mast, the directional pattern in-situ would be modified by the ESB structure. So in the end there may be little or no signal from the ESB in some parts of Queens and no antenna will help...


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/19858804
> 
> 
> If you check the filing you will find that WMBC uses a highly directional antenna at ESB and that antenna fires toward the SE. Further, because the antenna is side-mounted on the building and not on the top mast, the directional pattern in-situ would be modified by the ESB structure. So in the end there may be little or no signal from the ESB in some parts of Queens and no antenna will help...



I disagree with your statement of where the signal is pointed, i went to wmbc website, they specifically mention that their target audience is the flushing and north queens section, where most of asian community is located. not southern queens.


----------



## rcc147

Appreciate the responses. Will try re-directing the antenna. If that fails, will get a different one.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19852738
> 
> 
> ghost killer may be an old antenna but it should still work to get all the locals from empire and times square. WMBC is strong enough to be picked up with rabbit ears in most of queens. Make sure friend's antenna is pointed in the general direction of empire state building. Many ppl have not been up on their rooftops in 20 years and still have antennas pointed to direction of WTC.



true, it sounds like either downlead is bad or pointing the antenna towards esb.


----------



## SnellKrell

Has anyone else noticed that WFUT, RF Channel 30 has reduced its power?


It's still coming in fine for me - has been my strongest station using my indoor antenna -100% SNR meter reading.


Now, it's registering 50-51%. I think either the station has reduced its output from the ESB or has switched over to its backup facility at 4TS.


----------



## AloEuro

I wonder what ch.23 -1,2,3,4 are going to put on, so far another weak Daystar42, the same with ch.32 too much pixelation, but ch. 35 is little stronger at 27-35% signal level

almost no pixelation, but every time I pass thru -infomercials


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19869677
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noted that WFUT, RF Channel 30 has reduced its power?
> 
> 
> It's still coming in fine for me - has been my strongest station using my indoor antenna -100% SNR meter reading.
> 
> 
> Now, it's registering 50-51%. I think either the station has reduced its output from the ESB or has switched over to its backup facility at 4TS.



Definitely weaker, I was shocked that at some point it gave me dialog box, also sometime before 1AM both 41/68 go off the air


----------



## fredd

I don't get a chance to visit this thread very often and with 415 pages and counting, I don't have the time or patience to read them all. Would some kind and knowledgeable person (moderator, etc.) familiar with the current state of OTA in the NYC metro area start a sticky to provide timely updates on things like ESB transmitter improvements, combiner, progress on the new trade center building (Freedom Tower), antenna heights and the most recent transmitter power of all the stations, etc. I know I would appreciate it and I'm sure many others would benefit also.


----------



## SnellKrell

Chutzpah!


I know I don't have the time, etc. and wonder if anyone else has to answer all your questions.


Go to rabbitears.info everything you ever wanted to know and more!!!!


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fredd* /forum/post/19870987
> 
> 
> I don't get a chance to visit this thread very often and with 415 pages and counting, I don't have the time or patience to read them all. Would some kind and knowledgeable person (moderator, etc.) familiar with the current state of OTA in the NYC metro area start a sticky to provide timely updates on things like ESB transmitter improvements, combiner, progress on the new trade center building (Freedom Tower), antenna heights and the most recent transmitter power of all the stations, etc. I know I would appreciate it and I'm sure many others would benefit also.



Do some research on ur fav channels. That is the best way.


----------



## fredd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19871154
> 
> 
> Chutzpah!
> 
> 
> I know I don't have the time, etc. and wonder if anyone else has to answer all your questions.
> 
> 
> Go to rabbitears.info everything you ever wanted to know and more!!!!



Chutzpah? I don't think so. I was making a suggestion that would make this thread more useful to new or infrequent users, not asking you personally to do anything (although with 1921 postings to your credit you probably have more free time than I do d8o). And yes, I'm already familiar with rabbitears (and tvfool, theFCC, etc.) sites which contain a lot of good useful info. but don't focus specifically on NYC OTA issues.


----------



## SnellKrell

1,921 over 7 years!


And I will judge where and how I will expend my time.


----------



## nycdigital09

great article to peruse about the fcc and ota check it here http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...n-broadcast-tv 


you mean spend not expend


----------



## sirjohnk

Hoping someone can give me some advice:

My mother in law lives in a north facing 3rd floor apartment in Great Neck. We would like to get her set up with decent OTA reception, so that she can cancel her basic cable subscription, but we could only install an internal antenna.

Would she be able to get many channels here with an internal antenna? ideally she'd like to get the major networks in HD plus the chinese channel sinovision 63.4

Is there a particular internal antenna that you'd suggest? I was wondering about ordering the monoprice indoor/outdoor and trying that on her window ledge.

Thanks for any help!


----------



## nycdigital09

try using a pair of rabbitear antenna and see what you can get. your location can aid you cos your location is hilly, you can get the major networks, and 63.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sirjohnk* /forum/post/19872941
> 
> 
> Hoping someone can give me some advice:
> 
> My mother in law lives in a north facing 3rd floor apartment in Great Neck. We would like to get her set up with decent OTA reception, so that she can cancel her basic cable subscription, but we could only install an internal antenna.
> 
> Would she be able to get many channels here with an internal antenna? ideally she'd like to get the major networks in HD plus the chinese channel sinovision 63.4
> 
> Is there a particular internal antenna that you'd suggest? I was wondering about ordering the monoprice indoor/outdoor and trying that on her window ledge.
> 
> Thanks for any help!



How far does www.tvfool.com say you are from the major channels (ESB)


I think more then 10 miles to 20 miles. Will be too much for an internal antenna. At-least it is for us.


I would say a clearstream C2 or C4 would be best for your situation. The C4 would be better. Of course it is bigger. When I tested the C2 I went to home depot and had them cut a round piece of wood used to hang clothes in a closet. I then mounted the antenna on the wood poll and put it behind a piece of furniture.


Internal needs to be close. I use the terk -55 And I tried the Clearstream C2. I got the same reception only because we live 7 miles from ESB.


Greatneck seems far for internal antenna's Try TV fool and see the exact miles.


I would take nycdigital09's advice and try rabbit ears first. Before you spend money.


glty


----------



## yobiworld

Hope they continue to add more Asian channels in the coming months. Love Korean dramas


----------



## sirjohnk

Thanks for your responses.

According to TVFool, she is 14 miles from most of the antennas (ESB)


----------



## raj2001

All I see on WASA this morning is a Philips screensaver, like from a DVD player or something.


Someone fell asleep at master control or something?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19879631
> 
> 
> All I see on WASA this morning is a Philips screensaver, like from a DVD player or something.
> 
> 
> Someone fell asleep at master control or something?



hibernation zzzzzzzz


----------



## dturturro

I've noticed CBS drifting in and out since the NFL playoffs started. I tried reorienting my antenna today and I see CBS was coming in about 60-70 on my TiVo Premiere XL. It usually tuned in in the high 90s! Upon further review, I noticed some PBS stations (21 & 25) weren't coming in at all. Is there something going on with the NY-OTAs that could be causing this?


----------



## nycdigital09

cbs has a building certificate for a translator station on the north shore of LI. as far as ch 25, 21 those come in pretty good here in nw queens area.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sirjohnk* /forum/post/19878665
> 
> 
> Thanks for your responses.
> 
> According to TVFool, she is 14 miles from most of the antennas (ESB)



Well you can look at this poster. Who has his OWN thread. He tested many indoor antenna's and rated them with an SPREADSHEET.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779 


Since you are over 10 miles away. I would stay away from the Terk-55. We do not get anything past 10 miles or so. The C2 did NOT give us any more stations when I tested it.


I was told the C4 by the same maker clearstream. Is much bigger and better gain. If you can hide it behind furniture then this would be one of my top choices. Also because you are using an small outside antenna indoors. You will lose range. So when they say up to 30 or 65 miles (depending on model). You will not get that inside, but being that you are so close (14 miles) I would say you should be just fine.


Also do not forget to use RG6 cable wire from the antenna to the box/tv. I used Terks HD Rg6 cable wire bought at best buy. The reason was it was the cheapest. Just happened to be from TERK. It gave me another 5 signal points with the same set up. I even used it from the BOX to the tv.

Also remember anything longer then 25 foot. You will lose signal. Keep it short as possible.


C2
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...5807008&sr=1-1 


C4
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...5806955&sr=8-1 



I know there are better more experienced people on here. I hope some will answer you soon.


I was told by a poster year ago. He used the DB2 or Db4 and even though it was not made for VHF signals. He was under 23 miles and had no problem getting it. So I guess the futher you are away the more you need a VHF only antenna. Also the Db2 or db 4 is cheaper then the clearstream.
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...5807248&sr=8-1 


Also remember this is more of an art form then a science. So what works for me might not for you.


Good Luck.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19879631
> 
> 
> All I see on WASA this morning is a Philips screensaver, like from a DVD player or something.
> 
> 
> Someone fell asleep at master control or something?



After nearly two years of airing bullsh** control guy gave up on wasa like the rest of us


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/19877954
> 
> 
> Hope they continue to add more Asian channels in the coming months. Love Korean dramas



the only worthy one is ...Sejong...


----------



## AloEuro

 You are unreasonable.

So you want personal %$&@#, uhm, with your little time you would not have even time to read it.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> I was told by a poster year ago. He used the DB2 or Db4 and even though it was not made for VHF signals. He was under 23 miles and had no problem getting it. So I guess the futher you are away the more you need a VHF only antenna. Also the Db2 or db 4 is cheaper then the clearstream. Originally Posted by keyboard21



most uhf only antennas can receive vhf signals but theyre limited by their design to range of 20-30 miles tops. there are some uhf only antennas that can do more, the cm4228HD comes to mind. the c5 by antennas direct suppose to be vhf uhf antenna but i read that vhf performance on that antenna is only average. if you want a broadband antenna that does vhf uhf really good in my opinion you should get a winegard hd 7xxx antennas, they have a track record of proven performance in real world situations. I have a diy (do it yourself) antenna, similar to trips antenna that can get uhf and vhf locals great, but Its only a one bay. if i added more elements to the antenna it can probably get an additional decibel or two, remember is not mileage rating you want to consider antenna for forward gain, usually given in decibels over dipole dbd


----------



## 2VW

Some UHF antenna work fine on VHF as said.


I have an old long boom U/VHF antenna which was damaged in an ice storm. All the VHF elements except the shortest have been removed.


It still picks up all the VHF from ESB and I'm 52 miles away.


One big problem is there's almost no directivity on VHF. When neighborhood impulse noise gets bad the SNR of the VHF stations goes way down.


A lot of times with TV antenna setups the important thing is what you can point away from. This can be as large a factor as what you are aiming at.


Another big factor is the chipset in the converter or receiver. Better chipsets can deal with a lower SNR and still produce a working picture.


I have a bunch of older boxes which were donated for testing. Some are much better than others. My Digitalstream converter is the best one I've had my hands on.


There's some info on chipsets in another area of this forum but I've not seen a list useful for potential purchases. Maybe FCC requires the latest chipsets in new sets for type acceptance. Dunno.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> One big problem is there's almost no directivity on VHF. When neighboorhood impulse noise gets bad the SNR of the VHF stations goes way down.
> 
> 
> A lot of times with TV antenna setups the important thing is what you can point away from. This can be as large a factor as what you are aiming at. Originally Posted by 2vw



Try adding a corner reflector type on your vhf, it will help with directionally.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19899995
> 
> 
> Try adding a corner reflector type on your vhf, it will help with directionally.



Problem is that poster wants an antenna for indoors. That winegard hd 7 seems long and too big for indoors. Where the Clearstream C2 or C4 are flat and can fit behind furniture. The DB2 or 4 is also flat.


So basically he needs something that will go as far as 14 miles inside his apartment.


Since my setup is in an apartment I offered my inside expertise. Of course we are much closer to ESB (7 miles)


Seems most antennas made for indoors do not work well at 14 plus miles.


----------



## nycdigital09




> is that poster wants an antenna for indoors.Posted by kb21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok
Click to expand...


----------



## keyboard21

ok glty


----------



## cutthecable




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sirjohnk* /forum/post/19872941
> 
> 
> Hoping someone can give me some advice:
> 
> My mother in law lives in a north facing 3rd floor apartment in Great Neck. We would like to get her set up with decent OTA reception, so that she can cancel her basic cable subscription, but we could only install an internal antenna.
> 
> Would she be able to get many channels here with an internal antenna? ideally she'd like to get the major networks in HD plus the chinese channel sinovision 63.4
> 
> Is there a particular internal antenna that you'd suggest? I was wondering about ordering the monoprice indoor/outdoor and trying that on her window ledge.
> 
> Thanks for any help!



Hi sirjohnk,


For indoor use where you also need to receive VHF-hi channels I have had a lot of success with the Winegard FV-HD30.











It is an external antenna but very compact and easily indoor wall mounted and can be painted over to match the decor.


Welcome to the cable cord cutters club.



Cutthecable
www.tvictory.com


----------



## AloEuro

24-1 WASA and company are off the air, I checked 64 -1,2,3,4 -zero signal -still not there.

ch.23 out of NJ seems to have solid signal, ch.35 also good but only for women who love window shopping


----------



## LenL

Been having reception issues lately with the signal being in the 70's instead of the 90's.


Anyone else having reception issues with 2.1?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19909808
> 
> 
> 24-1 WASA and company are off the air, I checked 64 -1,2,3,4 -zero signal -still not there.
> 
> ch.23 out of NJ seems to have solid signal, ch.35 also good but only for women who love window shopping



Channel 23 is actually broadcasting from empire, not its city of license.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/19910292
> 
> 
> Been having reception issues lately with the signal being in the 70's instead of the 90's.
> 
> 
> Anyone else having reception issues with 2.1?



20 point drop is not bad, unless you don't receive their signal? thats why a digital signal has its good points, unlike analog where you would be seeing ghosting and snowy picture. have you seen analog picture lately, is it any wonder why HD rocks !!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/19910386
> 
> 
> Channel 23 is actually broadcasting from empire, not its city of license.



is it really, i don't see a bleep of their signal here, must be oriented towards you.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/19910459
> 
> 
> is it really, i don't see a bleep of their signal here, must be oriented towards you.



Yes they are very directional.


----------



## raj2001

Quote:

Originally Posted by *LenL* 
Been having reception issues lately with the signal being in the 70's instead of the 90's.


Anyone else having reception issues with 2.1?
WCBS is pegged at 100% on my HDHomeRun here.


----------



## rcc147

I'm in Brooklyn and lost several channels yesterday, including CBS. Looks like others also have this issue. Can't find any info on Google. Does anyone have any idea what happened? Thanks.


----------



## GSfromCT

I have lost WCBS since the leaves fell off the trees.

Ever since WCBS moved to channel 33 it has been one of my more difficult signals to obtain.

I know I am getting interference from WFSB which I have never been able to get a picture due to a hill near me, but it has bumped my signal meter when it was the only CBS in my area on that channel.

Back in the early combiner days when WCBS was on channel 56 it was my strongest signal. Back then WNBC didn't come in, but now is one of my stronger signals.

I really wish either WCBS or WFSB would change frequencies. Two CBS affiliates on the same frequency in neighboring markets. How? Why?

WCBS has obtained a new frequency for a translator? Why not use that frequency for their main signal?


----------



## SnellKrell

Stange!


Usually people have trouble with reception when there are leaves on the trees -

not the opposite.


Maybe the leaves blocked the CT station from cancelling out WCBS?


We need Trip for this one!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/19917606
> 
> 
> I have lost WCBS since the leaves fell off the trees.
> 
> Ever since WCBS moved to channel 33 it has been one of my more difficult signals to obtain.
> 
> I know I am getting interference from WFSB which I have never been able to get a picture due to a hill near me, but it has bumped my signal meter when it was the only CBS in my area on that channel.
> 
> Back in the early combiner days when WCBS was on channel 56 it was my strongest signal. Back then WNBC didn't come in, but now is one of my stronger signals.
> 
> I really wish either WCBS or WFSB would change frequencies. Two CBS affiliates on the same frequency in neighboring markets. How? Why?
> 
> WCBS has obtained a new frequency for a translator? Why not use that frequency for their main signal?



Is obvious fcc is indifferent to needs of ota viewer, networks lobby to fcc to do anything. this way they get you spend money on cable/satellite.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19917651
> 
> 
> Stange!
> 
> 
> Usually people have trouble with reception when there are leaves on the trees -
> 
> not the opposite.
> 
> 
> Maybe the leaves blocked the CT station from cancelling out WCBS?
> 
> 
> We need Trip for this one!



It's possible. I don't really know. All I know is that the two are too close together.


And the channel 22 the translator is permitted will not work because to operate from the Empire State Building on that frequency would cause too much interference to WLIW-21.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/19918164
> 
> 
> It's possible. I don't really know. All I know is that the two are too close together.
> 
> 
> And the channel 22 the translator is permitted will not work because to operate from the Empire State Building on that frequency would cause too much interference to WLIW-21.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Extremely possible if your interfering signal gotten stronger cos leaves falling off trees, it will cause havoc on the original station. Yagi antenna with high directionally with good front to back gain will do the trick. I also get interference from wfsb rf 33 here in queens particularly when there is a touch of tropo enhancement. lately i been receiving rf26 WRRN copy of rf 48 which has regional news and a couple of sitcoms from 80s. I've noticed that antennatv has been added to the time warner cable lineup they have also added other ota subs like world, create, guess someone has to watch those channels.


----------



## rcc147

Strangely, I am now picking up CBS, but have lost some other channels I was getting yesterday. I checked my connections on the roof and they look ok.


Can someone else in NYC confirm if you are also losing channels?


At 8am today I got CBS and ABC. As of 8.25am, ABC has now disappeared and the only channel I get is CBS. Yesterday I did not get CBS, but got a few others, inclusing PBS (13.1), which is missing today.


In the year plus I have been using OTA, I have always received a strong signal on all major channels. If this is a problem with the transmitters, is there a status site for empire state building (and others)?


Thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

It's 8:37 and the only difference in reception that I'm encountering is that, for some reason, WPXN is stronger than ever!


----------



## JoeSchmoe007

Does anybody receive 21.2 (Create TV) in Brooklyn, 11230 with indoor antenna?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joeschmoe007* /forum/post/19921210
> 
> 
> Does anybody receive 21.2 (Create TV) in Brooklyn, 11230 with indoor antenna?



I get wliw here in northwest queens. it comes in somewhat above the cliffside level. according to my tvfool report wliw signal is 2 edge to my location. if you can mount your antenna higher than 200 ft it will come in line of sight. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...3cf472d64f8cd4 I don't trust tvfool, my report says I should not get wedw ch49 from bridgeport ct. happens to be one of my strongest stations signal wise.


----------



## GSfromCT

There is a hill to my Southeast all the way to my Northeast. This cuts off most Hartford stations for me. I only get WVIT NBC and WCCT 20 from that direction. I think the leaves falling off the trees wiped out WCBS due to WFSB signal being a little stronger but still worthless in obtaining a picture. I was using a CM4248 yagi until early this summer when I upgraded to the XG91, which improved my WCBS signal slightly (two story house, mounted about 10 feet over roof, so, about 30 to 35 ft from the ground).

I forgot about interference issues as I wasn't sure what channel number WCBS would use. Isn't RF 22 WLIW? I was thinking WLIW was digital channel 21, RF22, or did WLIW move to 21 post transition?

As long as the channel 22 translator has a little power to it, I should be in great shape as long as it isn't in a Northeastern only beam pattern (I'm Northwest of there). I currently get WLIW and 25 while my XG91 is pointed at the Empire State building.


----------



## SnellKrell

Go to rabbitears.info and on the WCBS listing you'll be able to find the directional pattern for the translator - it appears to be S.E. to N.


But, who knows when it will be operational.


----------



## Trip in VA

WLIW is on RF channel 21 now, moved with the transition. WCBS's translator will be on channel 22 and will be located on the WLIW tower.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/19922092
> 
> 
> There is a hill to my Southeast all the way to my Northeast. This cuts off most Hartford stations for me. I only get WVIT NBC and WCCT 20 from that direction. I think the leaves falling off the trees wiped out WCBS due to WFSB signal being a little stronger but still worthless in obtaining a picture. I was using a CM4248 yagi until early this summer when I upgraded to the XG91, which improved my WCBS signal slightly (two story house, mounted about 10 feet over roof, so, about 30 to 35 ft from the ground).
> 
> I forgot about interference issues as I wasn't sure what channel number WCBS would use. Isn't RF 22 WLIW? I was thinking WLIW was digital channel 21, RF22, or did WLIW move to 21 post transition?
> 
> As long as the channel 22 translator has a little power to it, I should be in great shape as long as it isn't in a Northeastern only beam pattern (I'm Northwest of there). I currently get WLIW and 25 while my XG91 is pointed at the Empire State building.



I think you need a horizontal stacked 91xgs to get tight beamwith for you to get wcbs 2. I tried stacking a pair 91xgs to pickup wcct ch20 out of hartford this past summer. I was pickin up their signal when tropo enhancement came in. with the stacked 91xgs i could get wcct ch 20 to come in but it was unreliable in the daytime, I dream that i could get parabolic dish to try out, a neighbor of mine has finco 7 ft parabolic dish, he gets reliable signal from hartford ct stations he tells me. I use to have one many years ago, I left it on house roof when i sold my house in ozone park.


----------



## beatmix01

In Brooklyn Heights (11201) with my first antenna (Monoprice 4730) and the only channels I am having issues getting are WLIW 21. Assuming its cause I cannot get a clear shot east.


----------



## GSfromCT

Horiz stacked XG91's would be awesome, but I'm sure it would be overkill once the new facilities come online at the Freedom Tower in the future. When this happens, WFSB will probably be crying loudly as the FT signal will probably make it half way up the state of CT.


I looked at the directional beams of both 21 and 22. It looks to me by WLIW's pattern, that I should not be receiving it so easily. 22 has a more favorable beam in my direction. The 11.5 kW may be my problem there. The only way to know for sure will be to test it. I think I will need to find a sweet spot with my rotor somewhere between 240 degrees (ESB) and 216 degrees (WLIW).


----------



## SnellKrell

"...once the new facilities come online at the Freedom Tower in the future."


Unless, Mobile TV becomes an important element in stations' business plans, I doubt whether we'll ever see major stations moving to 1WTC!


----------



## AloEuro

Quote:

Originally Posted by *raj2001* 
Channel 23 is actually broadcasting from empire, not its city of license.
That means their studio is in Edison, NJ - tramsmitted by hand held dynamo transmitter to ESB and from ESB to Brooklyn - L.I. but not to fringes of Queens.

However, it still have only color bars, I wonder what they will show


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/19924759
> 
> 
> That means their studio is in Edison, NJ - tramsmitted by hand held dynamo transmitter to ESB and from ESB to Brooklyn - L.I. but not to fringes of Queens.
> 
> However, it still have only color bars, I wonder what they will show



must be waiting on some programming, most likely to be informercials if you aks me.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19924390
> 
> 
> "...once the new facilities come online at the Freedom Tower in the future."
> 
> 
> Unless, Mobile TV becomes an important element in stations' business plans, I doubt whether we'll ever see major stations moving to 1WTC!



I hope ota still here by 201 fcc wants to bid the tv spectrum off. that said tv antennas should stay at esb. no need to rain on our parade.


----------



## Sammer

Spectrum crisis isn't real


"Julius' Scandal: Manufacturing Spectrum Crisis"

http://www.fastnetnews.com/a-wireles...pectrum-crisis


----------



## reddice

Quote:

Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*
"...once the new facilities come online at the Freedom Tower in the future."


Unless, Mobile TV becomes an important element in stations' business plans, I doubt whether we'll ever see major stations moving to 1WTC!
I hope not. Esb has too much on it already. Then what is the point of putting a huge antenna on the 1wtc building if nothing is going to be broadcasting off of it. Just to say it will be the tallest building.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I hope ota still here by 201 fcc wants to bid the tv spectrum off. that said tv antennas should stay at esb. no need to rain on our parade.



OTA will be here but will likely be shared spectrum but in SD. You may see 5 networks share one RF channel with each one broadcasting their primary channel as a downconvert. Free OTA HD likely to disappear. Stations will share the costs of the transmitter.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19945920
> 
> 
> OTA will be here but will likely be shared spectrum but in SD. You may see 5 networks share one RF channel with each one broadcasting their primary channel as a downconvert. Free OTA HD likely to disappear. Stations will share the costs of the transmitter.



I think if they were to do that (If enforced) they (The FCC) would leave itself open to law suits. The reason I say that is because people were forced to purchase new receivers (both complete sets and convertors) if they wanted to continue to watch OTA TV and if the commision forces us to either pay for a cable or satellite subsciptioon to make use of the sets capabilities, then I think they'd leave themselves open to legal action. Remember, not everybody can afford a 50 to 100$ or more monthly bill just to watch TV. Stations won't accept it either. Putting 5 video channels on a single carrier would really degrade the stations signal quality. CBS in NY only runs a single channel to broadcast at the highest video quality. The best 3rd party rebroadcaster's image quality can not compare with what can be transmitted over the air. It's not going to happen in NYC.


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19945920
> 
> 
> Free OTA HD likely to disappear.



You forgot to add just so cellphone companies can continue to hoard spectrum.


----------



## Greg2600

Why would they do something that costs them households, and therefore ratings?


----------



## Sammer

Quote:

Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* 
I think if they were to do that (If enforced) they (The FCC) would leave itself open to law suits. The reason I say that is because people were forced to purchase new receivers (both complete sets and convertors) if they wanted to continue to watch OTA TV and if the commision forces us to either pay for a cable or satellite subsciptioon to make use of the sets capabilities, then I think they'd leave themselves open to legal action.
On what grounds, the law only requires SD.


----------



## deltaguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/19946441
> 
> 
> I think if they were to do that (If enforced) they (The FCC) would leave itself open to law suits. The reason I say that is because people were forced to purchase new receivers (both complete sets and convertors) if they wanted to continue to watch OTA TV and if the commision forces us to either pay for a cable or satellite subsciptioon to make use of the sets capabilities, then I think they'd leave themselves open to legal action. Remember, not everybody can afford a 50 to 100$ or more monthly bill just to watch TV. Stations won't accept it either. Putting 5 video channels on a single carrier would really degrade the stations signal quality. CBS in NY only runs a single channel to broadcast at the highest video quality. The best 3rd party rebroadcaster's image quality can not compare with what can be transmitted over the air. It's not going to happen in NYC.



Amen. The charge would be conspiracy. I'm thinking in terms of right and wrong. That doesn't necessarily reflect the events happening now. It's a classic bait-and-switch sponsored by cable and satcos if allowed to occur.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why would they do something that costs them households, and therefore ratings?



did it occur to u in market # 210 that an expensive tower with power covers few people in a country with 90% penetration for subscription? for smaller markets, sharing spectrum with other locals make sense even if they have to transmit in SD.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sammer* /forum/post/19952129
> 
> 
> On what grounds, the law only requires SD.



First, I don't know if the type/quality of transmission is actually printed in the rules. If we're talking SD are you refering to NTCS @ 525 or the current ATSC?


Second, WIth only one transmitter we're talking a single carrier. So that would mean that in my market most stations would have to turn in their license from the FCC to transmit, because you don't need to be licensed for anything other than transmission. It's not going to happen.


Third; In a city the size of NYC you are talking about maybe hundreds of thousands of people effected. As an example, I have DirectV but can not receive (so they say) an HD signal at my location due to trees. I receive HD signals OTA. I have spent thousands of dollars on new receivers. The FCC has to act in the public interest and it isn't in our interest for them to sell off *our* spectrum to the highest bidder.


----------



## SnellKrell

All the FCC mandated stations to do concerning the type of transmission was to stop broadcasting in analog and to use digital.


Nare a word about HD!


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/19955017
> 
> 
> If we're talking SD are you refering to NTCS @ 525 or the current ATSC?



ATSC 480i, there are a surprising number of stations across the country who only broadcast 480i SD although some have multiple subchannels.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deltaguy* /forum/post/19954068
> 
> 
> Amen. The charge would be conspiracy. I'm thinking in terms of right and wrong. That doesn't necessarily reflect the events happening now. It's a classic bait-and-switch sponsored by cable and satcos if allowed to occur.



not really...sponsored by cell phone companies. they will be the ones bidding on spectrum. the few customers gained by sat & cable companies are considered low value. there was some gain by the sat & cable companies after the dtv transition but many cancelled soon after. there will always be free OTA TV...just less resolution


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19954576
> 
> 
> did it occur to u in market # 210 that an expensive tower with power covers few people in a country with 90% penetration for subscription? for smaller markets, sharing spectrum with other locals make sense even if they have to transmit in SD.



In market #210 there is only one TV station KXGN and plenty of unused spectrum now. The major markets are where the cell phone companies want the TV spectrum the most.


----------



## deltaguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/19961257
> 
> 
> not really...sponsored by cell phone companies. they will be the ones bidding on spectrum. the few customers gained by sat & cable companies are considered low value. there was some gain by the sat & cable companies after the dtv transition but many cancelled soon after. there will always be free OTA TV...just less resolution



Telecos would have been a better term. The cable and satellite comes with the bundle. Legislating the transition to digital has led Americans into the purchase of hdtvs. To disable their ability to deliver a picture equal to that of what was received prior to the transition, thanks to the inability of these sets on 480i, is just plain wrong.


----------



## raj2001

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AloEuro*
That means their studio is in Edison, NJ - tramsmitted by hand held dynamo transmitter to ESB and from ESB to Brooklyn - L.I. but not to fringes of Queens.

However, it still have only color bars, I wonder what they will show
Means nothing of the sort, only that their city of license is edison.


----------



## reddice

What was that fiasco of auctioning off the 700 MHz spectrum for. I thought that would be enough for the mobile users. They have too much spectrum already and they want to take more from the OTA reception. I subscribe to Dish Network but I still love being able to get most of my local channels OTA since the PQ is much better than that soft compressed image I get with Dish Network. If they take more spectrum for useless mobile smartphone usage so they can compress more of the OTA channels for what.


To the FCC leave whatever little spectrum OTA can get now. Not everyone can subscribe to a cable or satellite service when OTA is free and it has better programs than the commercial ridden cable channels that you pay a mint for just to pay for commercials.


----------



## SnellKrell

"What was that fiasco of auctioning off the 700 MHz spectrum for."


For Washington to finally recognize money - money that had been "anticipated" for a long time!


----------



## dtolman

Anyone else having problems with WNET/13 and WNBC/4 over the past few days? All of a sudden their signals seems to have dropped through the floor - but all my other major stations (2/5/7/9/11/21) are fine.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtolman* /forum/post/19967718
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems with WNET/13 and WNBC/4 over the past few days? All of a sudden their signals seems to have dropped through the floor - but all my other major stations (2/5/7/9/11/21) are fine.



I lost wliw, don't have a clue whats happening. the other networks are down some. at first i thought was my downlead, its cabletv wire, it doesnt have greater bandwidth like rg6q does, but being thats only indoor antenna placed outside my window sill it shoudlnt effect greatly. on my rooftop rig all signas are about where they been prior


----------



## reddice

WNBC comes in great with my outdoor antenna. During the summer WNET came in horrible but since October 2010 it has been coming in good.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/19971597
> 
> 
> WNBC comes in great with my outdoor antenna. During the summer WNET came in horrible but since October 2010 it has been coming in good.



what kind of speeds are you getting with your internet provider, i use to be subscriber with earthlink but whenever i had an issue with internet they always leave up to you to resolve so i went back to crime warner cable. ps fios is coming soon.


----------



## Aero 1

Looks like Antenna TV is screwing with married with children today. The image is zoomed and horrible.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fredd* /forum/post/19870987
> 
> 
> I don't get a chance to visit this thread very often and with 415 pages and counting, I don't have the time or patience to read them all. Would some kind and knowledgeable person (moderator, etc.) familiar with the current state of OTA in the NYC metro area start a sticky to provide timely updates on things like ESB transmitter improvements, combiner, progress on the new trade center building (Freedom Tower), antenna heights and the most recent transmitter power of all the stations, etc. I know I would appreciate it and I'm sure many others would benefit also.



Some gentlemen use the Forum to learn, to share, to have fun, to enjoy, even as kind of no fee therapy - and others instead of coming here watch the porno, or worse the Super Bowl, and complain about not having the time,uhm.


----------



## icemannyr

Anyone else notice the audio on WNYW-DT is extremely loud compared to the other local HD channels?


----------



## nycdigital09

lost nbc channel 4 last night (real late or early) 3 am. came back bout hour later, are they still doing channel maintenace if true, why on earth on sunday morning?


----------



## SnellKrell

When do expect work to be done?


Everyone wants better reception from the ESB, but if work is done in the middle of the night, people complain. You can't have it both ways!


Work is usually done between 1-5 a.m.


Beside not interrupting programming, there's an additional consideration and that's work can only be done once all the tourists visiting the observation areas are gone.


Give the poor TV engineers at the ESB a break, they take great pride in their work and as much as you, they want to provide the audience with the best signals possible.


----------



## KenLW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/19924390
> 
> 
> "...once the new facilities come online at the Freedom Tower in the future."
> 
> 
> Unless, Mobile TV becomes an important element in stations' business plans, I doubt whether we'll ever see major stations moving to 1WTC!



Born and raised on the Lower East Side of Manhattan.My co-op has TWC, RCN and now Verizon Fios fighting it out in my lobby with there short term come ons. (FIOS seems like the best deal this week. Obviously gone is my clear view of the WTC, my view of the Empire State Bldg. is blocked by low income hi rise. Thinking about increasing monthly bills I pulled out the unsightly indoor, unpwrd.rabbit ear Terk HDTV. It doesn't pick up CBS or NBC. Yes to ABC, WOR,13, sometimes Fox. Took a chance with Monoprice powered flat box which boosted ABC HD but not much else. (Price and inconspicuosness was a plus) The Freedom Tower slowly rises but will our HD hopes for those transmitters be realized? By the way, r u a Snell-Krell fan? Before age affected my hearing, Krell, Sota,CJ.


----------



## SnellKrell

"By the way, r u a Snell-Krell fan?"


Yes, have both - therefore the name!


----------



## AloEuro

Ch.39 -1 + -3 the same programming, infomercials;

39 - 2 different infomercials than -1,3

39 -4 religious

39 - 5 Ladies night and day Window shopping - hsn

Signal week, lots of pixelation

Ch.50 -1 and -2 different programming of NJN, weak signal but usually coherent,

50 -3 Audio only


----------



## Greg2600

FYI Antenna TV now available on FIOS channel 465!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/20011358
> 
> 
> FYI Antenna TV now available on FIOS channel 465!



Also cablevision. I now see why the people complain about the picture quality. It looks fine on a small 20" CRT. But in digital TV it looks bad. Like YOUTUBE.


I also wonder why THIS TV is still not on Cable? Strange. Shows as 11.1 11.2 11.4 NO 11.3


WPIX should consider to increase quality.



I thought I read that Cable company's got better quality then OTA. Why is the picture so poor on 11.4


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20011651
> 
> 
> I thought I read that Cable company's got better quality then OTA. Why is the picture so poor on 11.4



cable company feed of local channels are identical to ota. no cable company devotes more than 19.4 mbps (or half of a 38.8 mpbs 256QAM channel slot) for local station even if they get a fiber feed.


----------



## dm145

Is ABC shutting down sub channel 7-3 Accuweather/Eyewitness News Now?


Cablevisions guide channel is claiming "On 2/25/2011 ABC will replace Eyewitness News Now with Live Well/Live Well HD channel 108"


----------



## sysmg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtolman* /forum/post/19967718
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems with WNET/13 and WNBC/4 over the past few days? All of a sudden their signals seems to have dropped through the floor - but all my other major stations (2/5/7/9/11/21) are fine.



For the last few months (maybe 2 or 3) I have been having problems with WNBC 4.1. All other channels are fine (2,5,7,9,13,25,31) with 4-5 bars. NBC varies wildly, sometimes no signal other times 3 bars. Previously we never had any problems with NBC. Very early in OTA DTV we had problems with 2. Maybe last year we had some problems with 5. Currently we are having no problems with 5 or 2, only with 4. I will try and contact NBC engineers. BTW, we are located in New Rochelle.


----------



## nycdigital09

last night ota reception on some channels were somewhat higher than usual channel 4 was the highest on ever seen it was peaking but i'm still having a weak signal on fox5 and ch9 they come in but if i was living further out than 5.8 miles away i would be having issues picking it up. they must be lower on antenna farm at esb.


----------



## SnellKrell

5 is lower on the ESB than 9.


9 is part of the UHF Combiner along with 2 and 4.


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/20012378
> 
> 
> Is ABC shutting down sub channel 7-3 Accuweather/Eyewitness News Now?
> 
> 
> Cablevisions guide channel is claiming "On 2/25/2011 ABC will replace Eyewitness News Now with Live Well/Live Well HD channel 108"



Live Well I thought was ABC 7-2?


As for WPIX, they don't care about the PQ, or what we think of it. Antenna got added because they badgered and forced WPIX to get off their butts and request it from FIOS. I doubt ThisTV is going to bother.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/20015139
> 
> 
> Live Well I thought was ABC 7-2?
> 
> 
> As for WPIX, they don't care about the PQ, or what we think of it. Antenna got added because they badgered and forced WPIX to get off their butts and request it from FIOS. I doubt ThisTV is going to bother.



Not just FIOS but other cable company's


----------



## reddice

Who cares about FiOS. I might switch to it if it was available but I live where we got inclosed brick houses so it will never be available in my area so who cares.


I hope WABC does drop there weather channel on 7.3 then they can improve the PQ. WPIX just does not care about PQ. I like Antenna TV but not at the expense of making the main 11.1 look worse.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/20016136
> 
> 
> Who cares about FiOS. I might switch to it if it was available but I live where we got inclosed brick houses so it will never be available in my area so who cares.
> 
> 
> I hope WABC does drop there weather channel on 7.3 then they can improve the PQ. WPIX just does not care about PQ. I like Antenna TV but not at the expense of making the main 11.1 look worse.



agreed pix looks crappy with 3 subs they will dump estrella by the time they start showing mets baseball. as fios goes it will be available when we're on ss. 7.3 is waste of time.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20018672
> 
> 
> 7.3 is waste of time.



So is 4.4.


4.2 I really don't watch either. A few months ago they were transmitting in 16:9, which made it look pretty good. Then for some reason they switched it back to 4:3. Why they did this, I don't know.


----------



## nycdigital09

I was browsing at ebay at uhf antennas i glimpsed at auction for cm4251 7 foot parabolic uhf antenna someone had for sale. they were asking for $650 for one brand new!! yikes i wish i had kept mine back from 90's when i had one top of my house. I'm certain someone is gonna manafacture a parabolic uhf dish in near future, there are lot of tv dxers out there.


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20018672
> 
> 
> agreed pix looks crappy with 3 subs they will dump estrella by the time they start showing mets baseball. as fios goes it will be available when we're on ss. 7.3 is waste of time.



Is that a fact?


----------



## nycdigital09

fcc is inverstiaging fox newscorp mismanagement of wor9 link http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ente...-wwor-tv-.html 


Is that a fact? I dunno, but it would be prudent


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/20023996
> 
> 
> Is that a fact?



Or wishful thinking?


Does cable carriage from a direct fiber connection suffer the same impairment as OTA has with 3 subchannels? Or, does the fiber connection result in a better looking cable channel?


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/20025345
> 
> 
> Does cable carriage from a direct fiber connection suffer the same impairment as OTA has with 3 subchannels? Or, does the fiber connection result in a better looking cable channel?



No, it won't suffer the same impairment if the virgin subchannels (prior to multiplexing) go over the fiber, yes cable viewers will suffer if the muxed together mess goes over the fiber.


----------



## nycdigital09

anybody receive a stronger signal than the usual last night? i think there was a touch of tropo last night wedw rf 49 pbs out of bridgeport, came in with indoor antenna, also got rf23 for the first time a duplicate of ch68 a long island based spanish speaking tv station dropped in.


----------



## AloEuro

To give it balance to what was said, 7-3 with windows and doors shut to keep warm inside, it gives general idea how cold/warm is outside to bundle up or loose, it is good to have 7-3 around, it is more important than 7-2

And 4-4 - I love 3wks of Giro d' Italia on Universal Sport, soon the playoff of Intern. hockey comes, there is always something worthy to watch for particular tastes


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sammer* /forum/post/20025570
> 
> 
> No, it won't suffer the same impairment if the virgin subchannels (prior to multiplexing) go over the fiber, yes cable viewers will suffer if the muxed together mess goes over the fiber.



I agree that works in theory, just asking if cable subscribers can attest to noticing and actually enjoying the improvement.


----------



## Trip in VA

Two questions:


1) Is anyone seeing a 42-5 on WKOB-LD 2?

2) Is anyone seeing W60AI on the air on physical channel 41?


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20030334
> 
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 
> 1) Is anyone seeing a 42-5 on WKOB-LD 2?
> 
> 2) Is anyone seeing W60AI on the air on physical channel 41?
> 
> 
> - Trip



hey trip I pick up 60AI its a shopping network. I didnt even notice that it was on my channel list after i did a rescan, on the dtt901. at the time i was also seeing rf23 or vc 67 wfty out of long island, which is a repeat of telefutura. I can confirm it is on rf 41 like you said, i don't receive it all the times, right now is barely registering, I need to try it when evening sets in. trip any new channels besides 60 that you know is coming soon? txs


----------



## nycdigital09

i read that metv is coming to nyc soon, no date yet determined, i browsed their programming, they have some tv series from 70 80's that look worth while, http://blog.sitcomsonline.com/2010/1...-december.html


----------



## dtolman

Is there a reason why WNYW is broadcasting a 5-1 in HD, and a 5-2 in SD? Its really confusing the tuner in my poor digital recorder... seems like a waste of bandwidth.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtolman* /forum/post/20049582
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why WNYW is broadcasting a 5-1 in HD, and a 5-2 in SD? Its really confusing the tuner in my poor digital recorder... seems like a waste of bandwidth.



They're not. WNYW is transmitting 5-1 and 9-2, while WWOR is transmitting 9-1 and 5-2. It's for redundancy in case one transmitter goes out, the other is available with both sources of programming.


- Trip


----------



## Greg2600

Heard that ABC is replacing Eyewitness News Now (7.3) with an SD feed of ABC Live Well this Friday.


----------



## multipath

So what happens with the HD version of Live Well?


----------



## dtolman

Thanks for the info Trip - that makes a bit more sense. Now if I could only get my poor digital recorder to lock onto 5.1 instead of 5.2.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/20049705
> 
> 
> Heard that ABC is replacing Eyewitness News Now (7.3) with an SD feed of ABC Live Well this Friday.



Live Well HD is already on OTA 7.2 - seems odd that they would have it on 7.3 also.


If they are dropping the accuweather channel its very disappointing - 7.3 has been my goto TV channel during the recent storms.


----------



## LenL

Funny thing. My CM4228 antenna get CBS in the mid to upper 90s at 8:30 AM. By 4 PM reception is down to 41%. This is happening every day. Is it the sun?


Any of you experts out there have an idea as to what is happening?


----------



## pm123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20049624
> 
> 
> They're not. WNYW is transmitting 5-1 and 9-2, while WWOR is transmitting 9-1 and 5-2. It's for redundancy in case one transmitter goes out, the other is available with both sources of programming.
> 
> 
> - Trip



It used to be that way, but they switched it months ago. WNYW is on 5-1 and 5-2 and WWOR is on 9-1 and 9-2


at least that's how it shows up in my house


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm123* /forum/post/20052378
> 
> 
> It used to be that way, but they switched it months ago. WNYW is on 5-1 and 5-2 and WWOR is on 9-1 and 9-2
> 
> 
> at least that's how it shows up in my house



That's the way it's coming in for me.


5.2 is being transmitted by WWOR, and 9.2 is being transmitted by WNYW.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20051970
> 
> 
> Funny thing. My CM4228 antenna get CBS in the mid to upper 90s at 8:30 AM. By 4 PM reception is down to 41%. This is happening every day. Is it the sun?
> 
> 
> Any of you experts out there have an idea as to what is happening?



Len, i had the same issue like youre having, it was driving me up the wall, i found later thru a neighbor that living close to a police precint can be caustic to ota signals.try using an fm trap if you haven't allready. it can also be wifi signals or cell phone towers closeby.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm123* /forum/post/20052378
> 
> 
> It used to be that way, but they switched it months ago. WNYW is on 5-1 and 5-2 and WWOR is on 9-1 and 9-2
> 
> 
> at least that's how it shows up in my house



my ota setup also gets the same programming on the same channel


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20052510
> 
> 
> That's the way it's coming in for me.
> 
> 
> 5.2 is being transmitted by WWOR, and 9.2 is being transmitted by WNYW.



snellkrell, you're getting two different programming on the same channel ?


----------



## SnellKrell

No!


Let me try to explain:


5-1, WNYW Programming, Using WNYW's Transmitter - In HD

5-2, WNYW Programming, Using WWOR's Transmitter - In SD


9-1, WWOR Programming, Using WWOR's Transmitter - In HD

9-2, WWOR Programming, Using WNYW's Transmitter - In SD


Hope this clears things up!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20052791
> 
> 
> No!
> 
> 
> Let me try to explain:
> 
> 
> 5-1, WNYW Programming, Using WNYW's Transmitter - In HD
> 
> 5-2, WNYW Programming, Using WWOR's Transmitter - In SD
> 
> 
> 9-1, WWOR Programming, Using WWOR's Transmitter - In HD
> 
> 9-2, WWOR Programming, Using WNYW's Transmitter - In SD
> 
> 
> Hope this clears things up!



gotcha, now let me ask you a question, do you think wnyw fox 5 is serving the public needs by using their sub channel for repeat of wwor9, or would we benefit more with a news, weather and traffic 24/7 news source?


----------



## SnellKrell

I haven't found a sub-channel that, in my opinion, is worth watching.


I'd prefer if all the bandwidth were assigned to the primary HD station.


----------



## nycdigital09

yeah i agree for the most part the retro shows that i prefer to watch are not being shown on the sub channels, looks like me tv is somewhat better they a bigger library of shows from mgm but I really doubt we'll see here


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> gotcha, now let me ask you a question, do you think wnyw fox 5 is serving the public needs by using their sub channel for repeat of wwor9, or would we benefit more with a news, weather and traffic 24/7 news source?



ratings and profit come

before public needs


----------



## LenL

Yes the Channel Master has the FMtrap set to on.


Also this behavior also is seen with channel 31 (RF31).


So it is something that 2 (RF33) and 31 (RF31) with similar frequencies have in common.


----------



## keyboard21

Ok I got a question on 39.5 HSN. When I turn to channel 39.5 It works for 3 seconds and then the picture freezes and just audio. When I go to another channel and then back to 39.5 Same thing happens over and over. ALL other 39's are working fine. 39.1 .2 3. .4


For that matter all my other channels work perfectly.


We get a total of 56 channels including subs.



I use a Dish pal dvr. Could the signal coming from 39.5 be not formatted right for Dish box?


39.5 used to work well. This is just recent.


PS I tried to reset the box to factory defaults. No change in HSN


----------



## nycdigital09

it can, try plugging your antenna directly to input of your tv see what happens, i also have problem with 39.5 is real weak signal here. :0


----------



## SnellKrell

The only problem I have with 39-5 is that although the signal is stable and sharp, there are frames missing - it's almost like watching an Internet call using Skype.


I live across the river, east and about 10 blocks north of One Court Square - so no

signal problems here.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20058231
> 
> 
> The only problem I have with 39-5 is that although the signal is stable and sharp, there are frames missing - it's almost like watching an Internet call using Skype.
> 
> 
> I live across the river, east and about 10 blocks north of One Court Square - so no
> 
> signal problems here.



do you use silver sensor i heard is great on uhf channels, i use diy antenna that i placed out my window its facing east towards esb but strait into high rise. i get all stations except nj stations i even get wliw 21 on 2 edge signal. i wish they would put some real programming on 39 instead of repeating same on every sub channel, do you get hsn on 60 rf 41 ? i think the antenna is esb or trump world.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, I'm using a Silver Sensor for UHF stations.


----------



## kickass69

Seems like Obama and the FCC are furthering the pressure to get rid of free OTA:


Between this story:

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...trum-20110214/ 


And this one:

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...fees-20110221/ 


I gotta wonder if free OTA will still be around in 5 years or even 10.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20058188
> 
> 
> it can, try plugging your antenna directly to input of your tv see what happens, i also have problem with 39.5 is real weak signal here. :0



Question is why would 39.1 39.2 39.3 and 39.4 have no problem. So 39.5 is same signal no?


----------



## reddice

They better not get rid of free OTA so stupid Verizon and AT&T can get more spectrum. Just look at what Verizon is doing with the 700 MHz for there LTE. Yes it is very fast but it costs over $50 a month, you have to have a two year contract and you only get a pathetic 5 GB cap a month on data then it costs you $10 per extra GB. I go though 5 GB in about 12 to 20 days just streaming internet radio on my iPod Touch and this is using efficient 128k AAC and 64k AAC+ streams.


So no don't get rid of free OTA for greedy telecoms companies and there stupid contracts and pathetic low caps.


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/20059383
> 
> 
> So no don't get rid of free OTA for greedy telecoms companies and there stupid contracts and pathetic low caps.



98% of Americans already have access to 3G mobile cellular but no more than a third make use of it because it's too expensive and making more TV spectrum available to the greedy members of CTIA, The Wireless Association will undoubtedly lead to even higher prices. BTW, President Obama's proposed 2012 budget includes spectrum fees (taxes) levied against television broadcasters who don't participate in the auctions so there is nothing voluntary about these auctions.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20054888
> 
> 
> Yes the Channel Master has the FMtrap set to on.
> 
> 
> Also this behavior also is seen with channel 31 (RF31).
> 
> 
> So it is something that 2 (RF33) and 31 (RF31) with similar frequencies have in common.




Consider bypassing the preamp for a test at least.


There may be something close by getting into the pre. Otherwise look for crappy wall wart or other switching power supplies using an AM broadcast radio. Neighborhood amplitude interference is especially harmful to VHF DTV SNR IMO OUT.


----------



## AloEuro

As you already may know ch.60 -1 HSN 2 is on air, good solid signal, apparently the 39 -5 is HSN 1 weak signal.

It seems the wabc management suffers Nielsen stress of deception by removing 7-3 Weather, doubled with 7-2

ch.24 -WASA as usual nothing

24-2 avc or ivc chinese , some programming with CC3 or both Chinese-English sutitles

24-3 color bars, Audio only for LA,California both English and Chinese or Japan infomercials for Hong Kong, Shanghai


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20061225
> 
> 
> As you already may know ch.60 -1 HSN 2 is on air, good solid signal, apparently the 39 -5 is HSN 1 weak signal.
> 
> It seems the wabc management suffers Nielsen stress of deception by removing 7-3 Weather, doubled with 7-2
> 
> ch.24 -WASA as usual nothing
> 
> 24-2 avc or ivc chinese , some programming with CC3 or both Chinese-English sutitles
> 
> 24-3 color bars, Audio only for LA,California both English and Chinese or Japan infomercials for Hong Kong, Shanghai



We do not get channel 60 where we live. Too far for an indoor apartment in queens.


anything past 10 to 14 miles we hardly get


----------



## reddice

Why simucast that Live Well crud in SD on 7.3? The weather channel before was useful. Get rid of 7.3 so 7.1 can get better PQ but of course the networks only care about profits so they can add more useless subs and the main channel looks worse.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/20012378
> 
> 
> Is ABC shutting down sub channel 7-3 Accuweather/Eyewitness News Now?
> 
> 
> Cablevisions guide channel is claiming "On 2/25/2011 ABC will replace Eyewitness News Now with Live Well/Live Well HD channel 108"



yes


----------



## pantrychef




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20061225
> 
> 
> As you already may know ch.60 -1 HSN 2 is on air, good solid signal, apparently the 39 -5 is HSN 1 weak signal.
> 
> It seems the wabc management suffers Nielsen stress of deception by removing 7-3 Weather, doubled with 7-2
> 
> ch.24 -WASA as usual nothing
> 
> 24-2 avc or ivc chinese , some programming with CC3 or both Chinese-English sutitles
> 
> 24-3 color bars, Audio only for LA,California both English and Chinese or Japan infomercials for Hong Kong, Shanghai



New Chinese programming in NY Metro area:


24-2 IAVC seems to mirror 44-6 in LA. As of this posting, time and date are way off. Program guide not yet populated. LA originated local programming with programming from China and Taiwan broadcast in Mandarin.


24-3 ICN seems to mirror 44-8 in LA. No program guide, date and time way off. Most programming seems to originate from China (CCTV-9) but is either in English or English subtitle.


63-4 Sinovision used to be available between 2300-2359 on 63-1. Now available 24h in this new slot. Most programming seems to originate from China (CCTV-4) with the rest of the content local from NYC, broadcast nearly all in Mandarin.


----------



## yobiworld

DAMN!! after two years Wasa finally showing programing *shocked*. Programing is not bad so far. Hoping they air some movies and dramas. Wasa 24. 1 should start airing Japanese programing would great.


----------



## dtolman

Sure enough, the very useful accuweather channel on 7-3 is now an SD simulcast of the programming on 7-2.


Thanks WABC!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtolman* /forum/post/20070212
> 
> 
> Sure enough, the very useful accuweather channel on 7-3 is now an SD simulcast of the programming on 7-2.
> 
> 
> Thanks WABC!



abc7 has plans for 7-3 they will add sub with programming i bet theyll get metv down the road, we got be patient and see what happens.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20061488
> 
> 
> We do not get channel 60 where we live. Too far for an indoor apartment in queens.
> 
> 
> anything past 10 to 14 miles we hardly get



transmits from esb albeit weak signal. they only have 1 channel it shows home shopping youre not missing anything.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtolman* /forum/post/20070212
> 
> 
> Sure enough, the very useful accuweather channel on 7-3 is now an SD simulcast of the programming on 7-2.
> 
> 
> Thanks WABC!



Very few knew is was even there. The station never mentioned it unlike WNBC, which used to advertise WeatherPlus quite often.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20030334
> 
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 
> 1) Is anyone seeing a 42-5 on WKOB-LD 2?
> 
> 2) Is anyone seeing W60AI on the air on physical channel 41?
> 
> 
> - T4rip



2) Punch in 41-3 or 4,5,6,7,8,9, all of the 7 subs connect to w60Recall /Flashback goes always to 41-1 HD Univision

W60 HSN 2 shows only one, day after day non stop commercial of man and woman selling sport/health eguipment for $300 over and over and over, am I boring you ? as noted elsewhere, without the 60 you miss nothing


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20071137
> 
> 
> abc7 has plans for 7-3 they will add sub with programming i bet theyll get metv down the road, we got be patient and see what happens.



How do you know for sure they got plans for 7.3


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20078350
> 
> 
> How do you know for sure they got plans for 7.3



cos I do. abc has chutzpah to yank out a sub thats not cutting it man. they will give us (public) what we want


----------



## Greg2600

I wouldn't get your hopes up. As for MeTV, they market placement is pretty lame right now. Frankly the only reason Antenna got anywhere is because Tribune owns so many big stations.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20083010
> 
> 
> cos I do. abc has chutzpah to yank out a sub thats not cutting it man. they will give us (public) what we want



Is this a fact or your just guessing? Are you coming from a place of "in the know"?


----------



## dtolman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20083010
> 
> 
> cos I do. abc has chutzpah to yank out a sub thats not cutting it man. they will give us (public) what we want



I wanted an all news channel and an all weather channel without cable. ABC had both at one point, and now has yanked them. So I guess they aren't giving me (part of the public) what I want










If they put up another pointless channel with repeats of ancient sitcoms, I'm gonna cry


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a fact or your just guessing? Are you coming from a place of "in the know"?



Obviously nycdigital09 neither has fact or guessing but just hoping. The ABC execs for whatever reason have a lot of confidence in LWN programming that all abc o&o are simulcasting it in SD. There has been talk for LWN programming to replace Oprah's timeslot when she retires.


This is to serve cable viewers that don't have hd boxes that previously could not see LWN in HD. Full time weather channels do serve the public better but there is no money to be made in it. Companies like ABC are for profit first, public service somewhere after that While it's anyones guess what may happen to 7.3 down the road, don't expect LWN to be on for anything less than a full year.


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20085382
> 
> 
> This is to serve cable viewers that don't have hd boxes that previously could not see LWN in HD. Full time weather channels do serve the public better but there is no money to be made in it. Companies like ABC are for profit first, public service somewhere after that While it's anyones guess what may happen to 7.3 down the road, don't expect LWN to be on for anything less than a full year.



That's pretty strange, because I think most cable co. only offer Live Well 7.2 in SD now! Also, CBS 2 isn't broadcast in SD, and the CC's are able to offer it in SD.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty strange, because I think most cable co. only offer Live Well 7.2 in SD now! Also, CBS 2 isn't broadcast in SD, and the CC's are able to offer it in SD.



In NYC region operators are offering live well in sd & hd. It will depend on individual agreements between abc stations and the cable operators. Most just carry the full multicast of abc hd,live well hd and sd. ABC and other stations primary signals (2.1, 4.1,etc) are down converted to SD broadcast on cable systems.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtolman* /forum/post/20085211
> 
> 
> I wanted an all news channel and an all weather channel without cable. ABC had both at one point, and now has yanked them. So I guess they aren't giving me (part of the public) what I want
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they put up another pointless channel with repeats of ancient sitcoms, I'm gonna cry



a news a weather channel is redundancy cos you get at 5 6 11. i rather see a weather traffic than news, since wnye took off traffic live, you need to turn the radio to see whats doing. what abc should do with the extra sub is have indemand channel that airs recent episodes from their primetime or daytime lineup. news weather im pretty much flooded with same news that is recycled all day.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20085382
> 
> 
> Obviously nycdigital09 neither has fact or guessing but just hoping. The ABC execs for whatever reason have a lot of confidence in LWN programming that all abc o&o are simulcasting it in SD. There has been talk for LWN programming to replace Oprah's timeslot when she retires.
> 
> 
> This is to serve cable viewers that don't have hd boxes that previously could not see LWN in HD. Full time weather channels do serve the public better but there is no money to be made in it. Companies like ABC are for profit first, public service somewhere after that While it's anyones guess what may happen to 7.3 down the road, don't expect LWN to be on for anything less than a full year.



a sub like CNN would be great for OTA.


----------



## reddice

I would take better PQ on the main channel over subs any day.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20087818
> 
> 
> a news a weather channel is redundancy cos you get at 5 6 11. i rather see a weather traffic than news, since wnye took off traffic live, you need to turn the radio to see whats doing.



You could also go on the internet and check for traffic and weather.

I rarely watch the traffic/weather channel on Cablevision, let alone 7.3 when it was on.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20090225
> 
> 
> You could also go on the internet and check for traffic and weather.
> 
> I rarely watch the traffic/weather channel on Cablevision, let alone 7.3 when it was on.



What if you do not have the internet? Seems 7.3 was very little local weather. You had to wait till they finished the rest of the country


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20092421
> 
> 
> What if you do not have the internet?



You could always listen to 1010WINS or 880CBS.


----------



## AloEuro

One of my converter APT box deteriorated all broadcasts from wcbs2 up to 68 taking away all digital quality and presenting lot's of rain through screen of Analog quality only studio programs, commercial are better quality, also Spanish stations better than Ingles.

The other box is perfect DTV transffers of 480i


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20096491
> 
> 
> One of my converter APT box deteriorated all broadcasts from wcbs2 up to 68 taking away all digital quality and presenting lot's of rain through screen of Analog quality only studio programs, commercial are better quality, also Spanish stations better than Ingles.
> 
> The other box is perfect DTV transffers of 480i



what brand of stb do you use? I found that zenith dtt901 stb is not good as the older dtt900 as far sensetivity goes, I use both units at home. dxinfocenter says we're in for some tropo enhancements tonite, thru next week. will be looking for new digital channels


----------



## LenL

I don't find the info from this site of any value in my partricular location. I guess for many or some it is useful but there are folks like me where it doesn't matter much.


Sometimes tropo changes has me picking up some new channels but they are never really watchable and a waste for my TV or PALDVR to add them. I have to delete them later.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20098159
> 
> 
> I don't find the info from this site of any value in my partricular location. I guess for many or some it is useful but there are folks like me where it doesn't matter much.
> 
> 
> Sometimes tropo changes has me picking up some new channels but they are never really watchable and a waste for my TV or PALDVR to add them. I have to delete them later.



how you like the paldvr? Do you get 56 channels including subs? We do. The box is very nice. too bad they stopped the updates.


Tropo does mess with that box. Sometimes you just get the TV info and no picture or audio


----------



## LenL

For OTA the tuner beats the tuner in my 2 Sharp TVs.


I find with TROPO it may add channels. But they are not viewable. I then delete them and days down the road with Tropo they get added again.


I own 2 of them. I did take the 250 Gb hard drive out and put it in my PC as a second drive and replaced it with a 1 TB hard drive. I use both PAL DVRS with 1 TV so we can record 3-4 programs at once. I can also watch TV with the TV tuner while the recordings are happening.


There is a AVS forum as you know dedicated to the PALDVR. The DVR can get some strange things happen to it but all in all I am very happy with my 2 boxes. The few issues I have with it I can deal with. It is so much better than a VCR!


----------



## LenL

I forgot to mention that where I am located I get about 50 stations including SUBS. 10-12 or more of them are Korean, Chinese or Spanish.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20101060
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that where I am located I get about 50 stations including SUBS. 10-12 or more of them are Korean, Chinese or Spanish.



Len do you get any channels from other dma like philly, allentown. i wish i could get some philly channels like mind channel.


----------



## Digital Rules




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20097910
> 
> 
> I found that zenith dtt901 stb is not good as the older dtt900 as far sensetivity goesweek.



Are you using any kind of FM trap? The DTT 901 is easily overloaded with FM. I completely lose a handful of *UHF* stations that otherwise come in at full strength with the trap installed. My Samsung TV works fine with or without the trap.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20101833
> 
> 
> Len do you get any channels from other dma like philly, allentown. i wish i could get some philly channels like mind channel.



My 2 antennas (Home Built Grey-Hoverman GH6) and store bought CM4228)are outside on masts and aimed at the ESB. I never tried to get anything else. Not sure I could as I am at least twice as far from Philly than from NY.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20101833
> 
> 
> Len do you get any channels from other dma like philly, allentown. i wish i could get some philly channels like mind channel.



You can get MiND from WFME 29.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20101833
> 
> 
> Len do you get any channels from other dma like philly, allentown. i wish i could get some philly channels like mind channel.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/20086038
> 
> 
> That's pretty strange, because I think most cable co. only offer Live Well 7.2 in SD now! Also, CBS 2 isn't broadcast in SD, and the CC's are able to offer it in SD.



My cable co recently added LW in HD. I think FiOS has it in HD too.


----------



## raj2001

Why does WASA even still have a license? Every time I turn to that station it's a blank DVD player screensaver!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20102660
> 
> 
> My 2 antennas (Home Built Grey-Hoverman GH6) and store bought CM4228)are outside on masts and aimed at the ESB. I never tried to get anything else. Not sure I could as I am at least twice as far from Philly than from NY.



your gray hoverman does it do vhf hi or just uhf? i read some of gray hoverman gain wise can blow away 91xg,




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/20104299
> 
> 
> Why does WASA even still have a license? Every time I turn to that station it's a blank DVD player screensaver!



I bet someone still watches them


----------



## LenL

NYC,


My GH6 does have the NARODS on it for VHF. I get 7.1 and 58.1 great! However 11.1 and 13.1 are spotty. My CM4228 gets 11.1 and 13.1 a tad better. I suspect that is I make some changes to the Narods I can probably get 11.1 and 13.1 better.


In a month or so I am building another GH6 or GH8 for mounting outside with the goal of getting a bit better reception and for use with my 2 TVs on the second floor.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20097910
> 
> 
> what brand of stb do you use? I found that zenith dtt901 stb is not good as the older dtt900 as far sensetivity goes, I use both units at home. dxinfocenter says we're in for some tropo enhancements tonite, thru next week. will be looking for new digital channels



Coship APt - it lasted about 1 week, Digital 480i at Analog low Quality all ch. showing heavy rain, you could see frames from left to right before picture would come,

then I switched it to iNet SSR 1921- Tivax type, perfect DTV, day later back to Coship back to normal it shows perfect PQ

Coship with subs gives me 55ch, not including 23, 32, 35, 3,


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20106473
> 
> 
> NYC,
> 
> 
> My GH6 does have the NARODS on it for VHF. I get 7.1 and 58.1 great! However 11.1 and 13.1 are spotty. My CM4228 gets 11.1 and 13.1 a tad better. I suspect that is I make some changes to the Narods I can probably get 11.1 and 13.1 better.
> 
> 
> In a month or so I am building another GH6 or GH8 for mounting outside with the goal of getting a bit better reception and for use with my 2 TVs on the second floor.



cool i want to a built a gh4 or gh8 just to try get some more antenna gain on uhf band. did you get info to built your gh antenna from internet?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20110690
> 
> 
> Coship APt - it lasted about 1 week, Digital 480i at Analog low Quality all ch. showing heavy rain, you could see frames from left to right before picture would come,
> 
> then I switched it to iNet SSR 1921- Tivax type, perfect DTV, day later back to Coship back to normal it shows perfect PQ
> 
> Coship with subs gives me 55ch, not including 23, 32, 35, 3,



I have not heard of that stb brand before do you record ota programs what your location.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/20102095
> 
> 
> Are you using any kind of FM trap? The DTT 901 is easily overloaded with FM. I completely lose a handful of *UHF* stations that otherwise come in at full strength with the trap installed. My Samsung TV works fine with or without the trap.



I have not experienced any dropouts from fm stations nearby i got severe multipath from highrises in the path to esb. perhaps blockage helps somewhat


----------



## LenL

Check these sites out for help with building a GH antenna:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res11d41p/ 

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=99907


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *LenL* 
Check these sites out for help with building a GH antenna:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res11d41p/ 

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=99907
len where did you find the material like insulators reflector to build antenna? would home depot or lowes carry any good hardware for antenna project like gray hoverman, I built a small dyi bay antenna from metal hangers and it works real well for uhf and vhf, but my promixity to esb doesnt tell me how well it works in distant setting. I recently bought a box full of channel master balun http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT it helped me get a cleaner signal. thxs appreciate your input on project joe


----------



## LenL

NYC,


If you go to those sites I posted here you will see that there are a lot of different materials used for these GH4-10 antennas. I enjoy seeing the pictures people post of their builds. Many just use parts they have and augment them with some store bought supplies. A lot of these GH models are framed with PVC pipe.


For example I built mine using #8 wire I bought at an electrical supply store. The frame was aluminum I bought from Home Depot. The reflectors were shelf supports I had removed from a closet we remodeled that I kept stored in the garage to use someday for a project. I had a pop rivet tool, bolts etc that I used to fasten it together.


Picture of my build: Attachment 204976 


It performs almost as good for OTA as my high priced CM4228 which is mounted above it by about 15'.


----------



## LenL

I forgot to mention I had a carpenter friend give me some composite decking scraps I cut for the other parts.


It is a creative process left only to the imagination and keeping to some basic measurements that the websites provide on the best GH dimensions for reception.


----------



## LenL

NYC,


Where are you mounting your antenna? Are you in a high rise or a home?


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20112683
> 
> 
> 
> I have not heard of that stb brand before do you record ota programs what your location.



The box goes thru VCR to DVD to TV, I did recording on VCR only experimentallty, not interested in DVD Recording nor VCR, I use lot of VCR Playback then giving away VHS tapes.

Locale Wmsbrg, B'lyn 3,5-4mil to ESB acc.to TVFool


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20134517
> 
> 
> The box goes thru VCR to DVD to TV, I did recording on VCR only experimentallty, not interested in DVD Recording nor VCR, I use lot of VCR Playback then giving away VHS tapes.
> 
> Locale Wmsbrg, B'lyn 3,5-4mil to ESB acc.to TVFool



sounds goo do you convert vhs tapes to digital dvd


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20133722
> 
> 
> NYC,
> 
> 
> Where are you mounting your antenna? Are you in a high rise or a home?



hey len my location is a 2 family house. I can mount antenna on roof about 25 ft high, but Im incircled by 6 floor high buildings. so i need to careful aiming to esb. I usually point antenna thru gap about 30 ft wide between the buildings towards the west and esb. Id like to start building soon i do have 91xg that i want to put on roof, but is very directional (rotor would be used) which is not the way i want to go. gh4 or 8 would be wiser thxs


----------



## ghostie

Hi,


My folks have been watching the asian OTA tv channels (63-1, 63-2... 63-4) for quite a while. Two weeks ago, their signal disappeared for those channels. I'm not sure if my fish bones rooftop antenna got shifted during the snowstorms. I can still receive all the other channels, but channel 63 comes from Newton, NJ, which is slightly westward. I was curious if anyone else can currently receive these channels. If so, then I know it's my antenna that needs adjustment.


Also, does anyone have experience with these flat indoor antennas?
http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT1650-Di...9951186&sr=8-1 


My father is convinced that this will bring his channels back, but I've never had luck with indoor antennas since I'm on the first floor of a 2-story building. And this flat antenna looks gimmicky. I've had the Phillips indoor antenna (fish bone looking one) which did not pick up many channels at all here in Brooklyn (but I should note that the Phillips works wonders wonderfully in my apartment in Boston).


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghostie* /forum/post/20139540
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone have experience with these flat indoor antennas?
> http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT1650-Di...9951186&sr=8-1
> 
> 
> My father is convinced that this will bring his channels back, but I've never had luck with indoor antennas since I'm on the first floor of a 2-story building. And this flat antenna looks gimmicky. I've had the Phillips indoor antenna (fish bone looking one) which did not pick up many channels at all here in Brooklyn (but I should note that the Phillips works wonders wonderfully in my apartment in Boston).



He'd be better off with a paper clip than with that... well, I don't want to call it an antenna, because that would be giving it way too much credit.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

Dont get any amplified indoor antennas. They have to always be plugged in. They never improved reception not even a fraction of a point from the non amplified antennas.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice* /forum/post/20139899
> 
> 
> Dont get any amplified indoor antennas. They have to always be plugged in. They never improved reception not even a fraction of a point from the non amplified antennas.



I find there is a 5 point increase when the built in amp is on with my TERK-55


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20139560
> 
> 
> He'd be better off with a paper clip than with that... well, I don't want to call it an antenna, because that would be giving it way too much credit.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Speaking of it is TIME for a NEW Channel. Anything going to replace 11.3 weather?


Anything new coming soon? This year?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghostie* /forum/post/20139540
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> My folks have been watching the asian OTA tv channels (63-1, 63-2... 63-4) for quite a while. Two weeks ago, their signal disappeared for those channels. I'm not sure if my fish bones rooftop antenna got shifted during the snowstorms. I can still receive all the other channels, but channel 63 comes from Newton, NJ, which is slightly westward. I was curious if anyone else can currently receive these channels. If so, then I know it's my antenna that needs adjustment.
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone have experience with these flat indoor antennas?
> http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT1650-Di...9951186&sr=8-1
> 
> 
> My father is convinced that this will bring his channels back, but I've never had luck with indoor antennas since I'm on the first floor of a 2-story building. And this flat antenna looks gimmicky. I've had the Phillips indoor antenna (fish bone looking one) which did not pick up many channels at all here in Brooklyn (but I should note that the Phillips works wonders wonderfully in my apartment in Boston).



the station you're wanting transmits from empire, you should have no problems pickin it up. as for the panel antenna i have one hooked up to lcd tv , it does work ok, but you could try a cheap rabbit ears before you buy a more expensive alternative.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20141058
> 
> 
> Speaking of it is TIME for a NEW Channel. Anything going to replace 11.3 weather? Anything new coming soon? This year?



speakin of new channel i'm pickin up a new local channel on rf 43 its only showing bars for now similarly to 32 34 looks to be a low power station.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20133678
> 
> 
> NYC,
> 
> 
> If you go to those sites I posted here you will see that there are a lot of different materials used for these GH4-10 antennas. I enjoy seeing the pictures people post of their builds. Many just use parts they have and augment them with some store bought supplies. A lot of these GH models are framed with PVC pipe.
> 
> 
> For example I built mine using #8 wire I bought at an electrical supply store. The frame was aluminum I bought from Home Depot. The reflectors were shelf supports I had removed from a closet we remodeled that I kept stored in the garage to use someday for a project. I had a pop rivet tool, bolts etc that I used to fasten it together.
> 
> 
> Picture of my build: Attachment 204976
> 
> 
> It performs almost as good for OTA as my high priced CM4228 which is mounted above it by about 15'.



the size of gh5 looks to about similar in size as the cm 4228 performance wise, can you receive low power stations like ch55 or 21 wlw ?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghostie* /forum/post/20139540
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> My folks have been watching the asian OTA tv channels (63-1, 63-2... 63-4) for quite a while. Two weeks ago, their signal disappeared for those channels. I'm not sure if my fish bones rooftop antenna got shifted during the snowstorms. I can still receive all the other channels, but channel 63 comes from Newton, NJ, which is slightly westward. I was curious if anyone else can currently receive these channels. If so, then I know it's my antenna that needs adjustment.



I'm way south of you, near Asbury Park, and my antenna is pointed at Empire. As per TVFool, WMBC/63 is about 14 degrees west of Empire for me, and I'm still receiving it just fine. FWIW, the station's web site says that their main transmitter is in Montclair, with a second antenna at Empire. (See the bottom paragraph at http://www.wmbctv.com/about.html .)


----------



## AloEuro

No, I don't, I had 1 rare vhs Japan samurai movie friend of mine wanted, I gave him the original tape for third party to keep, he gave me the movie on DVD -fair exchange


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20141691
> 
> 
> the size of gh5 looks to about similar in size as the cm 4228 performance wise, can you receive low power stations like ch55 or 21 wlw ?



My GH6 is similar in foot print to my CM4228 which is mounted above it. However neither can receive those 2 stations. My location is a problem as I am on the down side of a hill and my antennas just barely see over the top if at all.


My mom who is 1/2 mile from me to my east has no obstacles and does get WLIW with some pixelation from time to time with her CM4228. WLIW is about 50 miles from her I think.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20148453
> 
> 
> My GH6 is similar in foot print to my CM4228 which is mounted above it. However neither can receive those 2 stations. My location is a problem as I am on the down side of a hill and my antennas just barely see over the top if at all.
> 
> 
> My mom who is 1/2 mile from me to my east has no obstacles and does get WLIW with some pixelation from time to time with her CM4228. WLIW is about 50 miles from her I think.



sounds like a great aerial. im waiting for canada to go digital in august, might see more antenna being turned out for 14-51 channel spectrum. I think some company will develop another dish type antenna similar to cm 4251 7 ft parabolic imagine that.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20137343
> 
> 
> sounds goo do you convert vhs tapes to digital dvd thxs



Do you need transffer? would you like the transffer or do you have the capabilities to make transffers


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20088781
> 
> 
> a sub like CNN would be great for OTA.



CNN - the Chinese News Network, right ?

Incidentally the ch.24 and ch.63 give a lot of video News, just put plug to your ears and watch, especially the ch.63-2 korean nonstop from the nuclear plant in Japan


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20169171
> 
> 
> CNN - the Chinese News Network, right ?



I thought it was the Canadian News Network. Seriously a sub for New York City that carried newscasts from different parts of world might be a good idea. There's lots of New Yorkers who aren't going to put up a BUD (Big Ugly satellite Dish) to receive such broadcasts.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AloEuro* 
Do you need transffer? would you like the transffer or do you have the capabilities to make transffers
not sure? i need to hook up to a vcr to dvd recorder ? yes/no

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AloEuro* 
CNN - the Chinese News Network, right ?

Incidentally the ch.24 and ch.63 give a lot of video News, just put plug to your ears and watch, especially the ch.63-2 korean nonstop from the nuclear plant in Japan
True i was scoping out some video this morning from japanese earthquake tsunami nuclear reactor they have lots of video on 63.2 or 63.4


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Sammer* 
I thought it was the Canadian News Network. Seriously a sub for New York City that carried newscasts from different parts of world might be a good idea. There's lots of New Yorkers who aren't going to put up a BUD (Big Ugly satellite Dish) to receive such broadcasts.
I want a big ugly dish to DX stations from other dmas. heard of fta free to air satellite it doesnt cost too much too watch around the world news.


----------



## Trip in VA

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Sammer* 
Seriously a sub for New York City that carried newscasts from different parts of world might be a good idea.
Sounds like you're describing MHz Worldview, which honestly would be a perfect match for WNYE to put on a subchannel.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20170524
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're describing MHz Worldview, which honestly would be a perfect match for WNYE to put on a subchannel.
> 
> 
> - Trip



it allready has a sub nyc affairs pbs carries bbc news and france 24 and deutche welle italian news weeknights.


----------



## keyboard21

Time for a new SUB CHANNEL Trip in VA Any news lol?


A 24 hour news would be nice. Or maybe a MTV. My Aunt is HIP you know lol


----------



## king1086

Hi all, I'm new to OTA by antenna so I apologize if I'm asking very basic questions.


I'm in Jersey City and my apartment is facing directly east. I have an RCA ANT111 rabbit ears with a UHF loop.


For some reason, I can't get CBS and CW at all but I get NBC and ABC perfectly. From what I can see on antennaweb.org, CBS and CW should be the same direction as ABC and NBC. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance!


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *king1086* /forum/post/20192320
> 
> 
> Hi all, I'm new to OTA by antenna so I apologize if I'm asking very basic questions.
> 
> 
> I'm in Jersey City and my apartment is facing directly east. I have an RCA ANT111 rabbit ears with a UHF loop.
> 
> 
> For some reason, I can't get CBS and CW at all but I get NBC and ABC perfectly. From what I can see on antennaweb.org, CBS and CW should be the same direction as ABC and NBC. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Thanks in advance!



Make sure the antenna is facing broadside to the Empire State Bldg. Anotherwords the rabbits "ears " should be looking at the ESB. Same with the loop.

Make sure you do a rescan. If still nothing, try entering in 33.1(CBS) and 11.1 manually on the TV and see if you get it.

You should have no problem with that antenna being you are so close.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20186254
> 
> 
> Time for a new SUB CHANNEL Trip in VA Any news lol?
> 
> 
> A 24 hour news would be nice. Or maybe a MTV. My Aunt is HIP you know lol


 http://www.smartbrief.com/news/nab/s...&&campaign=rss 


I don't have access to the full story, just that little snippet.


- Trip


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20198249
> 
> http://www.smartbrief.com/news/nab/s...&&campaign=rss
> 
> 
> I don't have access to the full story, just that little snippet.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Oh, great. Say goodbye to the best OTA HD PQ around.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20198897
> 
> 
> Oh, great. Say goodbye to the best OTA HD PQ around.



That includes the great NFL games.


----------



## nycdigital09

true, but i think its a monetary impulse, btw 720p is better for sports programming.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20199321
> 
> 
> btw 720p is better for sports programming.



i have yet to see this in reality and probably never will


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20199321
> 
> 
> true, but i think its a monetary impulse, btw 720p is better for sports programming.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/20200772
> 
> 
> i have yet to see this in reality and probably never will




I agree. With no subs, CBS was by far better than any 720P channel I've seen.


----------



## Greg2600

TV is a business, their sub-channels were inevitable. At least the bandwidth will carry content, unlike FOX/WWOR.


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* 
http://www.smartbrief.com/news/nab/s...&&campaign=rss 


I don't have access to the full story, just that little snippet.


- Trip
WOW very interesting. I am trying to locate full story. Will post it if I can get it.


I hope CBS does just 1 sub. They should not ruin their PQ.


Maybe they will broadcast the Charlie Sheen internet talk show. That rants against CBS and Chuck Lorie lol That would be classic.


Thanks Trip in VA you never a disappoint.


----------



## DevOne

Subchannels have yet to prove they can be profitable entities. I'd say they're distractions to the bottom line, save for stations that sell multicasts to outside entities. I don't know of a single profitable O&O or leased multicast. In 10 years, I believe multicasts will largely cease to exist. Broadcasters will likely sell bandwidth for datacasting.


----------



## Sammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DevOne* /forum/post/20202810
> 
> 
> In 10 years, I believe multicasts will largely cease to exist. Broadcasters will likely sell bandwidth for datacasting.



They can't sell bandwidth they don't have. The government has already stated they want the "empty boxcar" stations to share so that the government can auction another 120 MHz of UHF TV band spectrum.


----------



## AloEuro

Out of more than 50 ch. at any given time more than 30 ch. show infomercials, TV has become new age HSN, sell,sell, please buy us,us, and there is little bits, crumbs for dogs like you and me and us to eat, so all the multicasts and empty subs ready to sell more and more are subject to the magic word FCC and all broadcasters hate - Edit, Delete, Not Wievable

So I trimmed down to some 25 ch. I wish I had more than 1,5 hrs a day to watch


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20205907
> 
> 
> Out of more than 50 ch. at any given time more than 30 ch. show infomercials, TV has become new age HSN, sell,sell, please buy us,us, and there is little bits, crumbs for dogs like you and me and us to eat, so all the multicasts and empty subs ready to sell more and more are subject to the magic word FCC and all broadcasters hate - Edit, Delete, Not Wievable
> 
> So I trimmed down to some 25 ch. I wish I had more than 1,5 hrs a day to watch



heard of youtube thats where most of my entertainment comes from lol


----------



## keyboard21

Not sure I asked this before. If so I do not remember the answer.


Ok we have 39.1 .2 .3 .4 .5


.1 .2 .3 .4 Come in fine no problems


BUT


.5 which is HSN Starts ok and then freezes after 3 seconds. Happens no matter how many times I change and go back to 39.5


I thought it could be my converter box and did some hard reboots and tricks I learned from AVS. Like disconnecting antenna during boot up.


Anyway does anyone else have this problem? Could HSN be encoded differently then 39.1 .2 .3 .4? I thought it was all the same signal?


Of course HSN is not worth the trouble, but I am curious


thanks

*EDIT: anyone?*


----------



## pm123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20206968
> 
> 
> heard of youtube thats where most of my entertainment comes from lol



Is this serious? Can you really find "entertainment" on youtube? Maybe i'm too old to get it, but it seems to be lots of short random clips.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pm123* /forum/post/20224802
> 
> 
> Is this serious? Can you really find "entertainment" on youtube? Maybe i'm too old to get it, but it seems to be lots of short random clips.



HULU sounds more for you.


My dream set up is this Dish DVR for TV and a TV with Apps or the new AppleTV/Roku box's


This way you have TV and Things like netfilx. Also free Apps like HULU and youtube.


I believe that Echostar imagined that the Dishpal DVR box would be the combo of the two. Having live free TV and the internet for streaming free and paid content. For some reason this never happened.


----------



## LenL

Just get a new TV. Just bought a samsung that connects to the Internet wired or wireless and I get all kinds of APPs. I can get connected to UTUBE, HULU, NETFLIX, BLockbuster etc....


Also the New DVD players do the same thing.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20199011
> 
> 
> That includes the great NFL games.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20198897
> 
> 
> Oh, great. Say goodbye to the best OTA HD PQ around.



For a couple of months now the PQ on WCBS-DT has not been good.

There's artifacting and macroblocking when the players are moving on all of the the NCAA Tournament games.

Even on shows like The Price Is Right, I am noticing the macroblocking more.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/20233193
> 
> 
> For a couple of months now the PQ on WCBS-DT has not been good.
> 
> There's artifacting and macroblocking when the players are moving on all of the the NCAA Tournament games.
> 
> Even on shows like The Price Is Right, I am noticing the macroblocking more.



yes, its anomaly here also. I notice as I'm watching the basketball game, cbs 2 will breakup and then disappear for a several seconds and cbs will comeback seconds later and get hit with severe macroblocking. seems to happen during sporting events only!!. I postulate its something with the way theyre sending their signal packets. I'm convince this occurence is not a ramdon event, doesn't happen the rest of time, my signal strength is 90 - 100 on all channels. does anyone else experienced this.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20233796
> 
> 
> yes, its anomaly here also. I notice as I'm watching the basketball game, cbs 2 will breakup and then disappear for a several seconds and cbs will comeback seconds later and get hit with severe macroblocking. seems to happen during sporting events only!!. I postulate its something with the way theyre sending their signal packets. I'm convince this occurence is not a ramdon event, doesn't happen the rest of time, my signal strength is 90 - 100 on all channels. does anyone else experienced this.



Yes yesterday I noticed when walking near the antenna in certain areas only. That CBS would freeze and/or have that picture break up. We get a 98 signal. Not sure what is going on with CBS?


----------



## LenL

Been having the same problem with CBS since January with my CM4228 antenna. Interestingly my home built GH6 antenna continues to receive it fine. So I use it when I want to see something on 2.1.


The CM4228 is about 15 feet higher up and should be getting a better signal since it has fewer obstructions. Oh well at least I have an option to get 2.1.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20236966
> 
> 
> Been having the same problem with CBS since January with my CM4228 antenna. Interestingly my home built GH6 antenna continues to receive it fine. So I use it when I want to see something on 2.1.
> 
> 
> The CM4228 is about 15 feet higher up and should be getting a better signal since it has fewer obstructions. Oh well at least I have an option to get 2.1.



Maybe we all should e-mail CBS to let them know. Since they will have Sub stations this year, It would be nice if this problem was solved.


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 i email a mr brown that works in technical dept earlier 2day. need to keep pressing to get a good feedback, they neglect email most of times i try to find a number to call him. went to village last saturday tried totonos was marvelous!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20237868
> 
> 
> kb21 i email a mr brown that works in technical dept earlier 2day. need to keep pressing to get a good feedback, they neglect email most of times i try to find a number to call him. went to village last saturday tried totonos was marvelous!



Glad you enjoyed my tip. Guess we all got to take Trip in VA there. He deserves a slice. He gives so much info here


Could you PM Mr brown's email at CBS. I think we all should let him know.


----------



## icemannyr

Not sure if this was talked about earlier in the thread,

WNBC-DT must have added a mobile DTV feed last year.

I've noticed going back to the start of Sunday Night Football in 201 that whenever there is a dark background on the top of the frame you can see the digital compression artifact patterns changing every second as if they can't update fast enough.

If they have not added any new sub channels or changed the bandwidth allocation then I must have been the addition of a mobile DTV feed.


----------



## keyboard21

Ok we have 39.1 .2 .3 .4 .5


.1 .2 .3 .4 Come in fine no problems


BUT


.5 which is HSN Starts ok and then freezes after 3 seconds. Happens no matter how many times I change and go back to 39.5


I thought it could be my converter box and did some hard reboots and tricks I learned from AVS. Like disconnecting antenna during boot up.


Anyway does anyone else have this problem? Could HSN be encoded differently then 39.1 .2 .3 .4? I thought it was all the same signal?


Of course HSN is not worth the trouble, but I am curious


thanks


----------



## LenL

I don't get those channels.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20242913
> 
> 
> I don't get those channels.



At least you gave an answer. Thanks


----------



## icemannyr

I did a channel rescan and can't tune in WNYN-LD Ch39.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/20244475
> 
> 
> I did a channel rescan and can't tune in WNYN-LD Ch39.



TY for trying. Very kind of you


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21* 
TY for trying. Very kind of you








kb21 I think is your receiver at fault i don't have issues with ch 39 evem though that channel is a low power station. maybe you need to move to the window to tune into that station. do you receive wlig (tv 55) signal on rf45 ? there is also a new station on rf42 but there is only a standby screen there.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20250520
> 
> 
> kb21 I think is your receiver at fault i don't have issues with ch 39 evem though that channel is a low power station. maybe you need to move to the window to tune into that station. do you receive wlig (tv 55) signal on rf45 ? there is also a new station on rf42 but there is only a standby screen there.



Yes We get both of those channels. All other stations and channels are working fine.


I remember that years ago there was a similar problem with a major channel with the DISH PAL receiver. I bet this is the same case. Something with the encoding. I remember years ago Dish people e-mailed the station and it was fixed on the stations end.


I guess what is confusing me is that 39.1 .2 .3 .4 .5 are ALL the same signal no? So why is 39.1 .2 .3 .4 all working fine


I tried all the Dishpal tricks. Including a reinstall of defaults with antenna disconnected.


Of course channel 60? or 62? I forget number. NEW station? Is not barley coming in and it is HSN also. It has no freezing. Only problem is week signal that barely comes in.


So why would HSN on 60 or 62 have no problems and HSN on 39.5 freezes in 3 seconds every time. Still audio though. Also I forgot to say it used to work just fine.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20252179
> 
> 
> Yes We get both of those channels. All other stations and channels are working fine.
> 
> 
> Of course channel 60? or 62? I forget number. NEW station? Is not barley coming in and it is HSN also. It has no freezing. Only problem is week signal that barely comes in.
> 
> 
> So why would HSN on 60 or 62 have no problems and HSN on 39.5 freezes in 3 seconds every time. Still audio though. Also I forgot to say it used to work just fine.



ch60 is coming thru 41Univision, punch in 41-3 or up it should go to ch.60 HSN2, it looks on 41 like franchise, no connection to 39, on 60 they sell one item for days.

Is it true that women can look at it HSN for days almost without blinking their eyes?


----------



## Greg2600

Am I the only one who doesn't see the point of these low power stations? I can't receive a single one of them, and I'm like 8 miles from NYC.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20254040
> 
> 
> ch60 is coming thru 41Univision, punch in 41-3 or up it should go to ch.60 HSN2, it looks on 41 like franchise, no connection to 39, on 60 they sell one item for days.
> 
> Is it true that women can look at it HSN for days almost without blinking their eyes?



MY aunt likes to see the NEW things on HSN. Don't ask me why


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> ch60 is coming thru 41Univision, punch in 41-3 or up it should go to ch.60 HSN2, it looks on 41 like franchise, no connection to 39, on 60 they sell one item for days.
> 
> Is it true that women can look at it HSN for days almost without blinking their eyes?



Ch60 is on rf41 but not thru univision which is on rf40


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok we have 39.1 .2 .3 .4 .5
> 
> 
> .1 .2 .3 .4 Come in fine no problems
> 
> 
> BUT
> 
> 
> .5 which is HSN Starts ok and then freezes after 3 seconds. Happens no matter how many times I change and go back to 39.5
> 
> 
> I thought it could be my converter box and did some hard reboots and tricks I learned from AVS. Like disconnecting antenna during boot up.
> 
> 
> Anyway does anyone else have this problem? Could HSN be encoded differently then 39.1 .2 .3 .4? I thought it was all the same signal?
> 
> 
> Of course HSN is not worth the trouble, but I am curious
> 
> 
> thanks



.5 could be on a different encoder before it is muxed with .1 and others. If 1-4 come in fine and 5 doesn't, there is nothing u can do on your end to fix 5. Problem is from the stations side.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20258927
> 
> 
> .5 could be on a different encoder before it is muxed with .1 and others. If 1-4 come in fine and 5 doesn't, there is nothing u can do on your end to fix 5. Problem is from the stations side.



Thanks. I agree. I remember a similar problem with Dish and Zenith boxes on a different channel. People complained to the station and it was fixed.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/20255707
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who doesn't see the point of these low power stations? I can't receive a single one of them, and I'm like 8 miles from NYC.



I agree, I am in midtown at work and can't receive a thing.


But I suspect that cable/satellite carriage is the point.


----------



## rothe

I recently received a support request from WNET. I had been a supporting member for several years before I could no longer receive their broadcast when the digital transition was finalized. I've been intending to write them a nice letter about how they won't be seeing my money anymore, but never got around to it.


But their latest solicitation included a link to an online survey, and the survey included a few questions about over-the-air reception. They even allowed you to write a few comments.


Needless to say, I took the opportunity to briefly explain my situation. I'd love to be a supporting member again, but I'm not paying for a service that I can't use. If only they'd switch back to a UHF channel....


Regardless, if you'd like to express similar sentiments, I'll encourage you to complete the same survey. It took two minutes:

http://www.thirteen.org/tellus


----------



## LenL

Thanks for the link Rothe!


My reception for 13 has been very spotty so I completed the questionaire and asked that they improve their signal!


----------



## raj2001

Wow, 13 has been nothing short of spectacular here, 50 miles out. They're even better than ABC 7!


----------



## SnellKrell

Location, location, location!


Here, 1.6 miles from the ESB the reception for 13 is very inconsistant.


For the past 10 days or so, the signal has been quite unstable. Today it's back

to being OK.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/20271320
> 
> 
> Wow, 13 has been nothing short of spectacular here, 50 miles out. They're even better than ABC 7!



If all of us had the setup you have we would all be very happy with our OTA reception for every channel!


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/20271320
> 
> 
> Wow, 13 has been nothing short of spectacular here, 50 miles out. They're even better than ABC 7!



same here. i get 13 in 92+ range all the time. 18 miles out.


----------



## AloEuro

1 more shopping ch. HSN2 on 60-2 - one more to edit, delete


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20275693
> 
> 
> 1 more shopping ch. HSN2 on 60-2 - one more to edit, delete



I thought it was on 60.1


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/20271320
> 
> 
> Wow, 13 has been nothing short of spectacular here, 50 miles out. They're even better than ABC 7!



raj real question is how is fox5 coming in for your from your neck of woods? haha I finished replacing the bowties on my double bowtie antenna (a diy) went from 7 inches in length to 10.5 inches. I'm noticing a much stronger and cleaner signal on all my stations. particurlarly the lower part of uhf band.


----------



## pantrychef

Programming changes observed on my OTA setup:


17.2 no longer carries MBC-D. It is replaced by a static slide with what sounds like Korean radio station.


23.1 appears to carry video of 23.2 with no audio.


23.2 appears to be carrying a Spanish speaking station. currently running infomercial and cannot recall the network identified earlier.


23.3 appears to be carrying SAB, an Indian network. No audio but has crawler announcing "coming soon on 23.5" Info online at sabtv.com


23.4 continues to have color bars.


24 (RF25, all subs) continues to have incorrect time and date. At least it no longer displays January 1, 1900


Hope viewers find the info helpful.


----------



## nycdigital09

for any dtv dxers last night we had a brief tropo opening. I got these stations that normally don't show up tv 55 from long island on rf 47 not 45 wsah rf43 / tv8 wtnh abc affiliate on rf10 came in loud clear, the coup de grace wcct tv 20 from hartford. will be putting up a 91xg this summer hoping to pull in hard to get new jersey stations.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20277253
> 
> 
> I thought it was on 60.1



39-5 HSN 1

60-1 HSN 2

60-2 HSN 2 One of the HSN2 is actually 39-5, the other hsn2 has its

own line of showing whatever they sell.


----------



## keyboard21

TECH Question:

*High Quality Low Noise TV PreAmplifiers for HDTV/Digital Television

Get Mast-Mounted Performance Without Climbing the Tower!
*
http://www.kitztech.com/ 


Can something Like this work as they say? They say it is for inside antennas


I mean what if you just have a short 15 foot Coax going to the TV. Will this help? Or a waste?


I thought Preamps only help if you have 50 to 100 foot coax?

*This website claims:


Kitztech TV amplifiers are designed to improve reception on HDTV, UHF, VHF and FM channels. They are designed with state of the art circuitry which combines extremely low noise and low distortion for superb reception. Because of their low noise figure, they can give mast-mounted performance from inside the house. Many TV amplifiers on the market today have too much gain, too much noise and way too much distortion. Compare our specifications to the name brands and see for yourself. We are also selling our TV amplifiers with a 10 day right of return. If our TV amplifier does not improve your reception you may return it, within 10 days, for a refund minus the shipping charges.


The KT-100VG is our original variable gain broadband low noise amplifier for Digital/HDTV TVreception. The KT-100VG has variable gain of 0 - 20 db and a low noise figure of less than 1 db. The KT-100VG also provides a variable gain control to give you just the right amount of signal for your system.


The KT-200 is our newest high gain ultra low noise TV amplifier for Digital/HDTV TV reception. The KT-200 provides a fixed gain of 24 db and a ultra low noise figure of .4 db for improved performance on weak and distance channels.*


----------



## Trip in VA

I've had good luck with the Kitztech at pulling in weak signals. I can't put a number on how good it is, of course, but I've seen it pull in weak signals indoors that otherwise wouldn't be receivable. I watched NBC29 at my home, 66-ish miles away, using my Silver Sensor fed through my KT-200.


That said, I wouldn't depend on it. A larger indoor or any outdoor antenna would probably outperform the indoor antenna with amplifier. My roof antenna easily pulls in NBC29 when aimed in that direction, but the indoor antenna was quite literally impacted by the slightest bit of movement in the room since the SNR was just barely above the decoding threshold. It was not reliable in any sense of the word.


In a place with really strong signals, you might overload your receiver with such an amplifier. I know that I can use it here at school to see WVPT-11 (0.04 kW @ 4 miles) without as much fighting, but then I get dropouts on the very strong UHF signals, especially NBC29 (1000 kW @ 4 miles).


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* 
I've had good luck with the Kitztech at pulling in weak signals. I can't put a number on how good it is, of course, but I've seen it pull in weak signals indoors that otherwise wouldn't be receivable. I watched NBC29 at my home, 66-ish miles away, using my Silver Sensor fed through my KT-200.


That said, I wouldn't depend on it. A larger indoor or any outdoor antenna would probably outperform the indoor antenna with amplifier. My roof antenna easily pulls in NBC29 when aimed in that direction, but the indoor antenna was quite literally impacted by the slightest bit of movement in the room since the SNR was just barely above the decoding threshold. It was not reliable in any sense of the word.


In a place with really strong signals, you might overload your receiver with such an amplifier. I know that I can use it here at school to see WVPT-11 (0.04 kW @ 4 miles) without as much fighting, but then I get dropouts on the very strong UHF signals, especially NBC29 (1000 kW @ 4 miles).


- Trip
Well I have a Terk -55 It is billed as an Indoor/outdoor antenna. I can ONLY use it indoors.


Would this amp help pull in some stations? Also remember the TERK-55 has a BUILT in Amp that can be turned off. I get Plus 5 signal with it on.


So would something like this Amp help me in my situation?


----------



## Trip in VA

Most amps block signal when they're off. That is to say, when you turn it off, instead of amplifying, it attenuates and makes signals worse than if there was no amp at all.


Amplifying the Terk 55 with either the amp on or off is likely not going to work out well for you.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* 
Most amps block signal when they're off. That is to say, when you turn it off, instead of amplifying, it attenuates and makes signals worse than if there was no amp at all.


Amplifying the Terk 55 with either the amp on or off is likely not going to work out well for you.


- Trip
Is there any difference with the Booster I posted Above compared to any Pre Amp out there? They make it sound like it is special


----------



## Trip in VA

I haven't done a side-by-side with my CM7777 yet, mostly because it's on top of a 30+ foot tall building. I'm braving the ladder this weekend to get it down. Once I do and I get a chance, I intend to do a side-by-side and post the results on RabbitEars.


I'm definitely not disappointed with the KT-200 though. If someone is in a situation where they could make use of an amp, it's one I recommend, along with the CM7777, and let people make their own decision.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20290886
> 
> 
> I haven't done a side-by-side with my CM7777 yet, mostly because it's on top of a 30+ foot tall building. I'm braving the ladder this weekend to get it down. Once I do and I get a chance, I intend to do a side-by-side and post the results on RabbitEars.
> 
> 
> I'm definitely not disappointed with the KT-200 though. If someone is in a situation where they could make use of an amp, it's one I recommend, along with the CM7777, and let people make their own decision.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hey trip ty


I guess I was misunderstanding the link I posted. On your CM7777 it clearly states it is for *Makes up for signal loss from long cables and splitters*


The KT-200 Makes it seem like it would BOOST any antenna. I guess it just confused me. Basically it is just a pre amp correct? Not a magic BOOSTER


----------



## Trip in VA

An amplifier will make signals stronger. That's the definition of what an amplifier is. The question is, will it help? The Kitztech site clearly shows analog signals (pun intended), and as we know, digital signals are either above the decoding threshold or below it. If you're above it, how far you are above it doesn't matter in most cases. Kitztech is exaggerating in the sentence about the "mast mount."


I try not to counter the conventional wisdom, because in many cases it's true, but I've definitely seen amps like the 7777 or the KT-200 improve the performance of indoor antennas, so long as they don't have amps built in as your Terk does and all signals are equally weak in the band. (This is my case at home, 53-79 miles from my local stations.) When I am in New Jersey, I use my amp to get TSReader data out of WEBR-CD and WNYN-LD, but then the full-power stations are useless due to overload. I find the VHF stations, in particular, tend to not be helped by the amp, as the noise floor is usually high enough that it gets amplified along with the signal, thus negating any advantage.


You cannot invent signal where none exists, but you can amplify a weak signal as long as your noise floor is low. Unfortunately, the amps built into antennas like your Terk tend to be very noisy, so adding an additional amplifier to it would not do much for you.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

I think keyboard is looking for more signal capture, i personally would go a different way of preamps and get a 4 bay antenna and see what you can bring with it. is not a iarge antenna as outdoor antennas go. the tv55 has very poor reviews. its basically a large dipole which is not cut out for dtv is designed is not for uhf band as the wavelenght for uhf frequencies are smaller, is more suited for high vhf, I use diy 1 bay antenna that gets all dtv signals. kb21 try making a 1 bay antenna see what you can get with it will only take about half hour to design. 2 hangers a piece of wood and some washer and screws.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20291987
> 
> 
> I think keyboard is looking for more signal capture, i personally would go a different way of preamps and get a 4 bay antenna and see what you can bring with it. is not a iarge antenna as outdoor antennas go. the tv55 has very poor reviews. its basically a large dipole which is not cut out for dtv is designed is not for uhf band as the wavelenght for uhf frequencies are smaller, is more suited for high vhf, I use diy 1 bay antenna that gets all dtv signals. kb21 try making a 1 bay antenna see what you can get with it will only take about half hour to design. 2 hangers a piece of wood and some washer and screws.



You guys are great, but if you remember. I bought and tried a ClearStream C2 Is that not the same as 1 bay? Correct me if I am wrong. Everything I learned was from these boards. So I could be wrong. lol










The C2 Gave me the same Signal on every station as the Terk -50 I have the older version it is the same as Terk-55 just a little bigger. I also got the same number of stations. Only Difference was that one station on analog at the time was slightly less snow. So I returned it.


A 4 bay would be the Clearstream C4?


Since I have to use these inside. I have seen a diminish in distance. Anything under 12 to 14 miles is no problem.


I know people hate the Terk 55. Bad revues ect. For us is was/is the best we used so far out of 6 to 8 antennas.


We get like 57 channels including subs. All the majors come in at 85 to 100 signal strength. For us and it might be location. The Terk 50 has delivered and then some. No problem with UHF at all


Maybe a C4 with a pre amp?


Honestly if I could get a something to add on to the Terk to bring in a few more stations is all I wanted. Would hate to spend time and send back the C4.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20291210
> 
> 
> An amplifier will make signals stronger. That's the definition of what an amplifier is. The question is, will it help? The Kitztech site clearly shows analog signals (pun intended), and as we know, digital signals are either above the decoding threshold or below it. If you're above it, how far you are above it doesn't matter in most cases. Kitztech is exaggerating in the sentence about the "mast mount."
> 
> 
> I try not to counter the conventional wisdom, because in many cases it's true, but I've definitely seen amps like the 7777 or the KT-200 improve the performance of indoor antennas, so long as they don't have amps built in as your Terk does and all signals are equally weak in the band. (This is my case at home, 53-79 miles from my local stations.) When I am in New Jersey, I use my amp to get TSReader data out of WEBR-CD and WNYN-LD, but then the full-power stations are useless due to overload. I find the VHF stations, in particular, tend to not be helped by the amp, as the noise floor is usually high enough that it gets amplified along with the signal, thus negating any advantage.
> 
> 
> You cannot invent signal where none exists, but you can amplify a weak signal as long as your noise floor is low. Unfortunately, the amps built into antennas like your Terk tend to be very noisy, so adding an additional amplifier to it would not do much for you.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I understand now. Thanks for the patience.


----------



## LenL

Review with us again...why do you have to use it inside?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20292381
> 
> 
> Review with us again...why do you have to use it inside?



Apartment. no outside access or allowed


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20294514
> 
> 
> Apartment. no outside access or allowed



You mean you can't put one up on the roof? I understand you can't be stopped from doing that.


On the otherhand it might not be something you want to do. However if the apartment has a window and it can be opened you just might want to hang an antenna outside the window. You will gain so much by simply putting it outside the walls of your apartment!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20294614
> 
> 
> You mean you can't put one up on the roof? I understand you can't be stopped from doing that.
> 
> 
> On the otherhand it might not be something you want to do. However if the apartment has a window and it can be opened you just might want to hang an antenna outside the window. You will gain so much by simply putting it outside the walls of your apartment!



The Apartment building is TALL. They used to have a LARGE antenna FOR ALL THE TENANTS They charged $5 or so per month. They Disconnected the MAIN antenna when Cable came into the building, I Guess they get a kick back. That being said. I would have to run a 1000 foot cable to the roof and they would fight me and sue me. Maybe even more then 1000 feet. it is over 10 floors to the roof From us. I guess by law I would win, but who wants or needs the hassle. The apartment does not allow any outside items. Therefore no one has any thing besides Air Condition units.


In fact my Aunt tells me that the Terk-55 is much better then the MAIN antenna the apartment people had on the roof.


The one good thing is we have a corner apt that faces ESB and I have the antenna on the OUTSIDE wall. So It is the best I can do.


----------



## nycdigital09

is the best I can do. Posted by keyboard 21.


thats all you can ask from yourself.







If I may be bold where is your terk located, where in Queens ?

your location can help or hurt your reception, I live in Jackson Heights, where I have an elevation of 85 feet, is not much but I'm higher than other locations. I get excellent reception from Connecticut FM stations at this location, I readily get New Haven or Bridgeport. years ago when analog was around I could pull in UHF from Hartford, sometimes further. (Albany, NY) to make a long story short ymmv but you're getting the major stations, thats what really is most important. cu


----------



## pantrychef

Is it just me or does anyone else think the advertised noise figure seems suspect for a consumer grade preamp and price?


----------



## Trip in VA

I don't know what the exact noise figure is on it, but it does work very well. Perhaps there is a test I can devise to determine the noise figure on it...


- Trip


----------



## LenL

I just got a new TV and it reports reception in terms of SNR. All my other TVs and PALDVR simply provide signal strength.


My question is what SNR number is the lowest for good signal? What I am looking for is the number that anything at that number or above means the signal is good and the higher the better?


----------



## DTVintermods

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* 
I don't know what the exact noise figure is on it, but it does work very well. Perhaps there is a test I can devise to determine the noise figure on it...


- Trip
You can estimate the FACTORY QUOTED noise figure by noting how weak a signal can be demodulated. For example if you can go down to -84dBm, the NF is likely to be 7dB because -84-15(threshold SNR for ATSC)=-99dBm and -106dBm (thermal noise) +7(NF)=-99dBm.

That said, the FACTORY QUOTED value of the DTV receiver is grossly misleading because the actual noise figure depends on the antenna system that is connected to the tuner's input and the added nonlinear noise by the preamp due to strong signals. That system does not present the impedance match provided by the test equipment at the factory. The difference is significant.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20297638
> 
> 
> I just got a new TV and it reports reception in terms of SNR. All my other TVs and PALDVR simply provide signal strength.
> 
> 
> My question is what SNR number is the lowest for good signal? What I am looking for is the number that anything at that number or above means the signal is good and the higher the better?



Ballpark, an SNR of around 15-16 dB would be expected to be the threshold.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/20301371
> 
> 
> Ballpark, an SNR of around 15-16 dB would be expected to be the threshold.



SNR is NOT a measure of signal strength - it is a measure of signal QUALITY. SNR is Signal to Noise Ratio expressed in dB. The higher the number the cleaner the signal without any indication if the signal is strong or weak. Yes a low number can be an indicator of poor signal strength, but a larger number is not an indicator of too strong a signal.


Signal strength would be measured in dBm (power actually) or dBuV (dB micro-volts).


----------



## yobiworld

hope they bring bakc mbc d korean channel back on webr 17.2


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20301577
> 
> 
> SNR is NOT a measure of signal strength - it is a measure of signal QUALITY. SNR is Signal to Noise Ratio expressed in dB. The higher the number the cleaner the signal without any indication if the signal is strong or weak. Yes a low number can be an indicator of poor signal strength, but a larger number is not an indicator of too strong a signal.
> 
> 
> Signal strength would be measured in dBm (power actually) or dBuV (dB micro-volts).





For analog broadcasts, SNR is the ratio of the power of desired signal to the power of the undesired background noise. For digital signals, it's analogous to the MER and is an indicator of the ratio between the power of each symbol being transmitted to its underlying noise level. At the transmission side, ATSC requires a minimum of 27 dB SNR although most broadcasters do much better.


Generally, an SNR in the low to mid twenties will give an extremely reliable reception. An SNR above 35-40 isn't relevant unless the signal power exceeds capability of the tuner's dynamic range.


ATSC receiver specifications requires a minimum SNR of 15-16 dB with a signal power between -5 and -84 dBm along with a BER rate below 6 x10e-06 for reliable reception.


----------



## LithOTA

Many tuners will give an SNR and a percentage. Think of the percentage as the volume of signal, and the SNR as the purity or cleanliness of the signal.


----------



## LenL

Much appreciated!


By the way my Samsung TV tuner seems to do a better job at locking a signal than my 2 Sharp TVs. For whatever that is worth.


I just have to get used to working with SNR. I have a Excel table that I built with OTA reception results. I periodically take readings and fill in the table so I can see changes in reception from season to season or when I see there are dramatic changes. Now I have one device that only gives SNR and my other 2 TVs and my 2 PALDVRs provide Signal Strength....oh well.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20308008
> 
> 
> Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> By the way my Samsung TV tuner seems to do a better job at locking a signal than my 2 Sharp TVs. For whatever that is worth.
> 
> 
> I just have to get used to working with SNR. I have a Excel table that I built with OTA reception results. I periodically take readings and fill in the table so I can see changes in reception from season to season or when I see there are dramatic changes. Now I have one device that only gives SNR and my other 2 TVs and my 2 PALDVRs provide Signal Strength....oh well.



Len, It just came to me my lg 32 inch lcd has a S/N ratio display. I usually check the signal strength when It starts pixelating or when Im trying to get a better picture when using indoor antenna. it usually registers in the 80's when I got a good lock on station. when its weak and can't a lock its less than 35 or so. I been kind of busy lately, I started a project to get better wifi signals, I setup a small dishnetwork parabolic attached a usb adapter on focal point, Im getting alot of open connections around my area. I connected to local shopping mall a few blocks from here, what the heck its free.


----------



## jam-h

I'm curious whether anyone local to NYC has more trouble with WNYW and WWOR than other stations?


Have more frequent problems with either Ch 5.1/9.2 (44) or 9.1/5.2 (38) - or sometimes both simultaneously. (VHF/UHF Roof antenna ~20 ft above local ground level; points toward - but I can't see - the ESB 10 miles from Brooklyn location.)


Most of the time OK, other times either pixelation/low-signal or no signal. (same on two separate antennas/DTV boxes.) Sometimes goes along with rain/wind (like tonight), sometimes seemingly nice weather. Assuming not the antennas and wiring (although will redo this summer), right now I'm curious about the WNYW/WWOR transmitters.


Are they lower strength than other OTA stations? Sharing wonky transmitting equipment? Geometry seems to imply that a 50-100 (?) ft difference at 10 miles would not be significant, but are 5 and 9 lowest in height on the ESB antenna tower (and thus just enough further from my unique line-of-sight to have a problem with some intervening structure)? Or could I be in a difficult location where they for some reason are more susceptible to multipath? Or maybe I'm bored enough right now to enjoy generating hypotheses with no facts...


----------



## nycdigital09

jam these 2 stations are lower in antenna mast at esb I don't get these 2 stations strong like abc cbs wpix having said that, I can't pin down a reason for your breakup, there are many possibilities do you have your antenna pointed correctly, did you split your leadin to many tvs, are you using a preamp? check everything in your connection to find the root of these problems. in order to help you need to give us more information. I'm not expert on dtv issues, I can only help you with my experiences, there are other great folks in this forum that can also help out here.


----------



## tahoejoe

jam-h


I'm about 20 miles west of the ESB in NJ and 5.1/9.2 is the worst for me in terms of signal strength ( usually in the 60-70) range. 5.2/9.1 comes in about 15 points stronger. I've combined an older roof antenna ( small UHF element) and a smaller attic UHF/high VHF antenna using a simple splitter. The rest of my signals range from the high 80s to 100 with the VHF transmissions ( 7.1, 11.1, and 13.1 ) among the strongest.


----------



## LenL

It may be antenna related. I have 2 antennas up outside. My CM4228 picks up 5.1 in the mid to low 90s. No problems at all. However my home built GH sometimes will not pick it up or it picks it up with breakup. On the otherhand my GH6 locks on 2.1 in the mid 90s and the CM4228 has trouble with 2.1.


So it can definitely be antenna related.


----------



## n2ubp

 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/B...ntennas-113762 .



There have been no limit of efforts by startups to get around broadcast licensing restrictions, though most of these have faced swift legal responses from the industry. As such, these startups have gotten more creative in their efforts -- the most recent being a company by the name of Zediva giving users remote access to a room full of network DVD players, allowing users to watch DVDs and all associated content. Ars Technica directs our attention to another new effort named Bamboom, which offers users remote access to free over the air television -- and remote antennas:


Basically, the Bamboom model is to take the tuner, DVR, and all related paraphernalia out of your house and transfer it over to a central HQ in your area at present New York City is the testing ground. There you are assigned your own "teeny-tiny HD antenna," in the company's words...."Basically what we did is we miniaturized television antennas down to almost the size of a dime," he explained. "Except the consumer doesn't put them in their house. We put them in giant arrays in a central location in the market, like in New York, for example, and each individual consumer gets their own antenna."

While Bamboom knows they likely face legal backlash like Ivi and Filmon before them, they appear hopeful that they can piggyback on the Cablevision versus Cartoon Network case, which gave Cablevision the right to use remote DVRs to store video content at the network head end.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20320300
> 
> 
> It may be antenna related. I have 2 antennas up outside. My CM4228 picks up 5.1 in the mid to low 90s. No problems at all. However my home built GH sometimes will not pick it up or it picks it up with breakup. On the otherhand my GH6 locks on 2.1 in the mid 90s and the CM4228 has trouble with 2.1.
> 
> 
> So it can definitely be antenna related.




like others on here we are now having SLIGHT trouble with CBS 2.1 We get a 98 to 100% signal. Yet some times it freezes on its own for a few seconds or if you walk near the antenna. Others have said that they have similar problems with there OUTSIDE mast antennas. They blamed the wind


Something has changed with CBS 2.1 Does ANYONE know what is going on? Why would there be signal BREAK up with 100% signal strength, THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED Before. CBS was never a problem until other started to complain.


Any Idea what the Blazes is going on?


Has anyone e-mail CBS? This is very important station since this is where we get our TVGOS from as-well as programing


ty


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> like others on here we are now having SLIGHT trouble with CBS 2.1 We get a 98 to 100% signal. Yet some times it freezes on its own for a few seconds or if you walk near the antenna. Others have said that they have similar problems with there OUTSIDE mast antennas. They blamed the wind
> 
> 
> Something has changed with CBS 2.1 Does ANYONE know what is going on? Why would there be signal BREAK up with 100% signal strength, THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED Before. CBS was never a problem until other started to complain.
> 
> 
> Any Idea what the Blazes is going on?
> 
> 
> Has anyone e-mail CBS? This is very important station since this is where we get our TVGOS from as-well as programing
> 
> 
> ty



I think it was explained here already...strong signal strength doesnt guarantee good SNR. U can have strong signal with low SNR causing picture breakup. U can also have medium signal with high SNR and no picture breakup.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20323675
> 
> 
> I think it was explained here already...strong signal strength doesnt guarantee good SNR. U can have strong signal with low SNR causing picture breakup. U can also have medium signal with high SNR and no picture breakup.



SNR?


What is the solution? As I said never had a problem before. Been fine since Digital started


----------



## xxagon

This post is slightly off topic but its the best place I could think of to get an answer.

Have anyone use Bamboom yet? My understandinging is that it offers remote access to OTA television in such a unique manner that each user is provided with his own personal antenna which is about the size of a dime. Its being tested in the NYC area.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xxagon* /forum/post/20323861
> 
> 
> This post is slightly off topic but its the best place I could think of to get an answer.
> 
> Have anyone use Bamboom yet? My understandinging is that it offers remote access to OTA television in such a unique manner that each user is provided with his own personal antenna which is about the size of a dime. Its being tested in the NYC area.



Just read they in beta test in NYC. Also Read news on them. If the OTA is provided thru an IP on the internet. It seems to me the Dime antenna is a fake and just used to By pass lawsuits. No need for an antenna if you are getting OTA thru Internet connection. If you google them you will find the articles.


----------



## LenL

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21* 
like others on here we are now having SLIGHT trouble with CBS 2.1 We get a 98 to 100% signal. Yet some times it freezes on its own for a few seconds or if you walk near the antenna. Others have said that they have similar problems with there OUTSIDE mast antennas. They blamed the wind


Something has changed with CBS 2.1 Does ANYONE know what is going on? Why would there be signal BREAK up with 100% signal strength, THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED Before. CBS was never a problem until other started to complain.


Any Idea what the Blazes is going on?


Has anyone e-mail CBS? This is very important station since this is where we get our TVGOS from as-well as programing


ty
MY CM4228 was receiving a 95 or so signal on 2.1 until around December/10. Then it got bad in the low 70's with breakup. Happened the year before too then it got better again in May. So I am waiting to see what happens in the next month. Will let you know if there are changes. Just strange that whatever the change was it did not impact my other antenna.


----------



## jam-h

Thanks to all for the comments on Ch 5.1/9.2 (44) or 9.1/5.2 (38) transmission/reception. Interesting. The reason I asked is that as they are operated by the same people, I thought that might explain some problems in common - rather than the two antenna/DTV box setups independently experiencing the same effects.


For those who were curious, it's a series of "emergency" existing twin-lead franken-hookups I did at an older folks' house at the "surprise" DTV transition. Just rotated antenna masts a couple of degrees from WTC towards ESB, and spliced in scrap 300 ohm twin lead lengths where the old wiring was cracked open to the air. Sub-optimal, to say the least. (I want to put up a new antenna(s) for them this summer, but will probably have to use twin-lead, since greatly doubt I'll be allowed to drill through windows/walls for a change to coax.)


----------



## Johnr0836

I asked this question awhile back but got no reply. I have a Sony 34xbr2 set. When I do an auto scan I get Channels 5.1 and 9.2. If I then manually input Channel 38.1 I get 5.2 and 9.1 and lose 5.1 and 9.2. I contacted Sony about this but the person I spoke two really didn't understand what I was the issue was. Has anyone else seen this? Is it because the design of the tuner didn't contemplate mixing of sub-channel on different broadcast channels. Thanks.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jam-h* /forum/post/20332633
> 
> 
> Thanks to all for the comments on Ch 5.1/9.2 (44) or 9.1/5.2 (38) transmission/reception. Interesting. The reason I asked is that as they are operated by the same people, I thought that might explain some problems in common - rather than the two antenna/DTV box setups independently experiencing the same effects.
> 
> 
> For those who were curious, it's a series of "emergency" existing twin-lead franken-hookups I did at an older folks' house at the "surprise" DTV transition. Just rotated antenna masts a couple of degrees from WTC towards ESB, and spliced in scrap 300 ohm twin lead lengths where the old wiring was cracked open to the air. Sub-optimal, to say the least. (I want to put up a new antenna(s) for them this summer, but will probably have to use twin-lead, since greatly doubt I'll be allowed to drill through windows/walls for a change to coax.)



Just make sure to take the extra care in mounting the twin lead & you need to use stand offs to keep the twin lead away from any metal. Also the twin lead needs to have 7 twist per foot to keep interfering signal from being licked up from the side of the wire. Really twin lead has less loss that 75-ohm coax. But extra effort is needed when installing it for it or it will weaken the signal especially at UHF.


----------



## nyctveng

 http://broadcastengineering.com/news...ys-SFN-042111/


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20337810
> 
> http://broadcastengineering.com/news...ys-SFN-042111/



WMBC-TV Is what channel? Anything good?


Never mind it is that Koren station?


Which they fix CBS instead.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20337927
> 
> 
> WMBC-TV Is what channel? Anything good?
> 
> 
> Never mind it is that Koren station?
> 
> 
> Which they fix CBS instead.



would like wnjn to use snf transmitter, only 20 miles from them, I must be the only soul that doesnt get 50.


63.6 is azteca tv they have stellar programing, I'm surprise your aunt doesn't watch'em.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20339631
> 
> 
> would like wnjn to use snf transmitter, only 20 miles from them, I must be the only soul that doesnt get 50.
> 
> 
> 63.6 is azteca tv they have stellar programing, I'm surprise your aunt doesn't watch'em.



She does not speak Spanish. Although she has been watching a couple of the Soaps on one of those stations. What I never understood is why there are laws for major networks to broadcast programs in SAP in Spanish, but the Spanish Stations are not forced to do SAP in English.


Shame she would watch much more if she could understand it.


PS I am surprised No one is talking about 2.1 and the break ups everyone is getting. We have 100% signal and never had a problem and now a problem


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20339835
> 
> 
> She does not speak Spanish. Although she has been watching a couple of the Soaps on one of those stations. What I never understood is why there are laws for major networks to broadcast programs in SAP in Spanish, but the Spanish Stations are not forced to do SAP in English.
> 
> 
> Shame she would watch much more if she could understand it.
> 
> 
> PS I am surprised No one is talking about 2.1 and the break ups everyone is getting. We have 100% signal and never had a problem and now a problem



Golly, she does not speak Spanish, your kidding right?







relax im being humorous, U.S can't force anyone to learn english they would be frown upon or worse being tagged racist country I agree with you the latino networks should at least have sap. cbs was giving me serious problems during ncaa tournament and nfl playoffs, but lately no probs. try moving your antenna closer to a window. if you have good strong signal, then you probably have some kind of interference, any kind of radio frequency can disrupt dtv signal, ei, wireless internet, microwaves, even using your cell phone close to your tv can do that. good luck over and out good buddy


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20341210
> 
> 
> Golly, she does not speak Spanish, your kidding right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> relax im being humorous, U.S can't force anyone to learn english they would be frown upon or worse being tagged racist country I agree with you the latino networks should at least have sap. cbs was giving me serious problems during ncaa tournament and nfl playoffs, but lately no probs. try moving your antenna closer to a window. if you have good strong signal, then you probably have some kind of interference, any kind of radio frequency can disrupt dtv signal, ei, wireless internet, microwaves, even using your cell phone close to your tv can do that. good luck over and out good buddy



Others having same trouble with outside antennas all of a sudden. I say it is something at CBS


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20339835
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> PS I am surprised No one is talking about 2.1 and the break ups everyone is getting. We have 100% signal and never had a problem and now a problem



CBS is almost pegged on my signal strength meter.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20343462
> 
> 
> CBS is almost pegged on my signal strength meter.



That is the point. So is mine. We get 98% to 100% and yet are having drop outs and many shudders. This is NEW for us. For years no problems with CBS at all EVER


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20342721
> 
> 
> Others having same trouble with outside antennas all of a sudden. I say it is something at CBS



Even if it cbs fault, they wont acknowledge that, Im one of conspiracy theorists, that I believe that major networks cable networks have conspired to get rid off ota, is to their better interest if you know what I'm getting at. $$$$


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20339835
> 
> 
> She does not speak Spanish. Although she has been watching a couple of the Soaps on one of those stations. What I never understood is *why there are laws for major networks to broadcast programs in SAP in Spanish,* but the Spanish Stations are not forced to do SAP in English.



Networks are required by law to broadcast programs in SAP in Spanish? When did this supposedly happen?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20343810
> 
> 
> That is the point. So is mine. We get 98% to 100% and yet are having drop outs and many shudders. This is NEW for us. For years no problems with CBS at all EVER



Maybe your signal is overdriven. Try this simple test. Put a 2 way splitter on the coax by the TV to drop the signal.


If that does not work, maybe there is something in your area intefering. Try moving the antenna offskew from the ESB a little.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20344143
> 
> 
> Networks are required by law to broadcast programs in SAP in Spanish? When did this supposedly happen?




*What are the North American communications regulatory bodies doing to ensure SAP signals are made available to the public?*
*

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in the United States has adopted video description rules that will require local affiliates for ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox networks to provide a minimum of 50 hours of SAP programming per calendar quarter (roughly four hours per week). These rules will commence with the calendar quarter April to June 2002.*


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20344273
> 
> 
> Maybe your signal is overdriven. Try this simple test. Put a 2 way splitter on the coax by the TV to drop the signal.
> 
> 
> If that does not work, maybe there is something in your area intefering. Try moving the antenna offskew from the ESB a little.



Thought of that the next time I go. Their is an easier way. The antenna has a built in amp that gives about 5 signal strength. If I remember about 3 db.


So turning it off should test out your theory.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20344985
> 
> *What are the North American communications regulatory bodies doing to ensure SAP signals are made available to the public?*
> *
> 
> The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in the United States has adopted video description rules that will require local affiliates for ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox networks to provide a minimum of 50 hours of SAP programming per calendar quarter (roughly four hours per week). These rules will commence with the calendar quarter April to June 2002.*



SAP can also refer to descriptive programming for the blind.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

"SAP can also refer to descriptive programming for the blind."


It can also refer to an idiot who posts here!


----------



## nycdigital09

Lol, i see your humor, does anyone pickup wliw ch 21 from manhattan or new jersey, I can just narrowly get their signal to come in here in northwest queens. wpix pQ quality so called HD really sucks. also nbc 4 signal needs a signal boost


----------



## LenL

My mother does. She is 1/2 mile from me in Dover in a flat area with no hills blocking her CM4228 and RCA converter box. It will sometimes drop out but it is very watchable and she love their PBS programmimg over 13.1 and 50.1.


I can't get it at all even though I am close to her.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20349102
> 
> 
> My mother does. She is 1/2 mile from me in Dover in a flat area with no hills blocking her CM4228 and RCA converter box. It will sometimes drop out but it is very watchable and she love their PBS programmimg over 13.1 and 50.1.
> 
> 
> I can't get it at all even though I am close to her.



yes I agree wilw programming is very good, i wish they would broadcast in HD, but I understand their financial situation is not feasible at this time. Dover I use to listen to a rock station from dover wdha 105.5 I can't receive their signal here in queens too much multipath. but i can receive the station when i'm downtown in manhattan around 1 ny plaza, across from staten island ferry terminal. it has clear shot to dover nj. Len you're using cm 4228 original version? I read that antenna is almost good as the defunct 7 ft parabolic uhf cm 4251, I should've bought one when they were readily available (2008) but i was not into digital tv or ota at that time, I came aware of ota digital when the analog shutoff date came and went. I have a 91xg along with winegard ya1713 high vhf antenna, roof mounted but is overkill for the locals. I get good reception from connecticut and upstate new york, good for about 50 miles. I put a wireless adapter to a small parabolic dish, I'm getting all kinds of wireless internet signals, I been hearing that is possble to get wireless from 10 miles away with a parabolic dish I had to try it myself to put it to rest.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20349308
> 
> 
> I put a wireless adapter to a small parabolic dish, I'm getting all kinds of wireless internet signals, I been hearing that is possble to get wireless from 10 miles away with a parabolic I had to try it myself to put it to sleep. lol



Tell me more about this? What kind of adapter and what antennea did you use? Any pics?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20348455
> 
> 
> does anyone pickup wliw ch 21 from manhattan or new jersey



Getting it reliably here at the Jersey shore. I'm 49.5 miles away, picking up the signal via double edge diffraction over open ocean. My Winegard 7698p is pointed decidedly off-axis for this station but, thankfully, it's reliable enough to pick up some of the programming that I'm missing out on from WNET, which continues to be the only major NY metro station that I can't pick up.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/20351060
> 
> 
> Getting it reliably here at the Jersey shore. I'm 49.5 miles away, picking up the signal via double edge diffraction over open ocean. My Winegard 7698p is decidedly off-axis for this station but, thankfully, it's reliable enough to pick up some of the programming that I'm missing out on from WNET, which continues to be the only major NY metro station that I can't pick up.



On the flipside, I can get WNJB -DT 52 miles away from where I am on Long Island. I have an old Radio Shack VU-75 on the chimney. I also get WNJN which is a mirror image.

It nice to get a different PBS station to watch different programming from WNET and WLIW.


----------



## LenL

To answer your question:


My mom was always an OTA viewer and refused every attempt I made to buy her cable. So when the digital transition came along I had no choice but to set her up with a converter box and a better antenna. So I got her the CM4228 (original) and an RCA converter box that I picked up while on a vacation in Alaska (the timing just seemed to work out) as these RCA boxes were hard to get on the east coast.


After seeing how many channels she got and the great picture, I got myself a CM4228 (original) and kicked out Cablevision. Never Looked back.


As I have mentioned before even though we are just 1/2 mile apart she is in a flat area and I am on the side of a hill where my antenna just barely can peak over the top. So our reception experience is a little different. However she is very happy with OTA and so am I.


----------



## rothe

Slightly off topic here, but I'm wondering if someone in the Brooklyn area would be willing to do a little investigation for me.


Could you try tuning a radio to 88.1 FM and let me know what you hear? I'm expecting that you're going to pick up a Brooklyn-based illegal repeater for WYGG 88.1 out of Asbury Park. This is a low-power station about a half-mile from me at the Jersey shore, broadcasting primarily religious programming for the local Haitian community, but there have been rumors for years that this station was illegally operating a repeater in Brooklyn. As I've experienced at my close proximity to their licensed station, the signal is certainly strong enough to impact both my FM and TV reception.


Unless you're fluent in Haitian Creole or French, you'll probably be hard-pressed to positively identify the repeater as WYGG - they hardly ever announce their call letters - but please let me know what you hear. If you can provide some idea of signal strength, that would help too.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20351613
> 
> 
> On the flipside, I can get WNJB -DT 52 miles away from where I am on Long Island. I have an old Radio Shack VU-75 on the chimney. I also get WNJN which is a mirror image.
> 
> It nice to get a different PBS station to watch different programming from WNET and WLIW.



you probably can receive ct pbs youre closer to me I can get ch49 about 90%



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20351795
> 
> 
> To answer your question:
> 
> 
> My mom was always an OTA viewer and refused every attempt I made to buy her cable. So when the digital transition came along I had no choice but to set her up with a converter box and a better antenna. So I got her the CM4228 (original) and an RCA converter box that I picked up while on a vacation in Alaska (the timing just seemed to work out) as these RCA boxes were hard to get on the east coast.
> 
> 
> After seeing how many channels she got and the great picture, I got myself a CM4228 (original) and kicked out Cablevision. Never Looked back.
> 
> 
> As I have mentioned before even though we are just 1/2 mile apart she is in a flat area and I am on the side of a hill where my antenna just barely can peak over the top. So our reception experience is a little different. However she is very happy with OTA and so am I.



I recently seen a cm 4228 (original) go for $200 + shipping in Ebay auction. I wish I could go back in time, and purchase 20 of the 7 ft parabolic and 4228's i would be stashin the cash lol


----------



## mikepier

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
you probably can receive ct pbs youre closer to me I can get ch49 about 90%
No, can't get a whiff of any CT stations. I tried one day I was up on the roof with my laptop, and pointed the antenna towards transmitters in CT, got nothing.

I'm on the South Shore of LI. You are probably on the North Shore and have a clear shot across LI Sound.

According to TV fool I'm 44 miles away from Ch 49 in CT, but the NM is at -2.2db at 2 edge reception.


----------



## LenL

A recent Newark Star Ledger (Sunday or Saturday) in the business section was talking about the telecoms grabbing some more bandwith. The writer made a statement that OTA viewership is dropping and so there is bandwith for the taking. Unfortunately the guy who wrote this article had no contact info and gave no source for his info on OTA viewership. Otherwise I would contact him.


My take on his article is he has been bought off by the telecoms and has no clue about OTA viewership.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20354116
> 
> 
> A recent Newark Star Ledger (Sunday or Saturday) in the business section was talking about the telecoms grabbing some more bandwith. The writer made a statement that OTA viewership is dropping and so there is bandwith for the taking. Unfortunately the guy who wrote this article had no contact info and gave no source for his info on OTA viewership. Otherwise I would contact him.
> 
> 
> My take on his article is he has been bought off by the telecoms and has no clue about OTA viewership.



I agree, Ota is gonna hold out for another 5 maybe 10 years then it will be a memory










hoping that im wrong.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20354509
> 
> 
> I agree, Ota is gonna hold out for another 5 maybe 10 years then it will be a memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hoping that im wrong.




I have written both Senators & my Congressman. You would think that in this economy TV cable would be dropping.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A recent Newark Star Ledger (Sunday or Saturday) in the business section was talking about the telecoms grabbing some more bandwith. The writer made a statement that OTA viewership is dropping and so there is bandwith for the taking. Unfortunately the guy who wrote this article had no contact info and gave no source for his info on OTA viewership. Otherwise I would contact him.
> 
> 
> My take on his article is he has been bought off by the telecoms and has no clue about OTA viewership.



Regardless of what OTA viewership is, there are many more people that use smartphones. How many people do u know have smartphones and how many do u know that watch OTA tv? I see ppl texting while driving,working,on subways. I don't see ppl watching OTA tv at work or on the subway.


Cellphone companies may not need the extra spectrum today or next year but they will need it down the road. The Govt will make billions off selling the spectrum whereas they make nothing from broadcasters today.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20354509
> 
> 
> I agree, Ota is gonna hold out for another 5 maybe 10 years then it will be a memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hoping that im wrong.



Ok let's say you are correct. Then Why make it law for company's to spend money to broadcast in Digital format? Seems they would be wrong to ask company's to spend money on a technology that only lasts 5 years.


I could see many lawsuits if that happened.


We all became accustomed to the new digital format in a short time.


As I stated my aunt was (Not last 2 days) having trouble with CBS 2.1 She complained to me that the picture would pixelate and be jumpy a little during the day. Like it was my fault. She got used to All the Majors coming in crystal clear. With TVguide info and show descriptions.


In Analog she barley got CBS 2.1 it was all snowy and not nice to watch at all. How quickly she forgot.


I do not think people will be happy if FREE OTA disappeared.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20356241
> 
> 
> Regardless of what OTA viewership is, there are many more people that use smartphones. How many people do u know have smartphones and how many do u know that watch OTA tv? I see ppl texting while driving,working,on subways. I don't see ppl watching OTA tv at work or on the subway.
> 
> 
> Cellphone companies may not need the extra spectrum today or next year but they will need it down the road. The Govt will make billions off selling the spectrum whereas they make nothing from broadcasters today.



People texting while driving need to have their phones confiscated and they should pay big fines! Doing it while working ....they should be fired!


We do that and there will be no need for more spectrum. hahaha.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> People texting while driving need to have their phones confiscated and they should pay big fines! Doing it while working ....they should be fired!
> 
> 
> We do that and there will be no need for more spectrum. hahaha.



I agree but it shows the addiction of these devices that generate tons of money for cellphone carriers and mobile device makers.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20356241
> 
> 
> Regardless of what OTA viewership is, there are many more people that use smartphones. How many people do u know have smartphones and how many do u know that watch OTA tv? I see ppl texting while driving,working,on subways. I don't see ppl watching OTA tv at work or on the subway.
> 
> 
> Cellphone companies may not need the extra spectrum today or next year but they will need it down the road. The Govt will make billions off selling the spectrum whereas they make nothing from broadcasters today.




You need to remember the FCC decides whom the frequency band will go to. I have read that back when TV was going on the air some folks thought the radio broadcast was over. It is still here. Even today with the satilight radio the AM radio is still on the air. I would not give 1 cent for statight radio. But that is me. None of them compare with what I love like for example WABC 77 in the 1960s. It would seem to me the FCC would be more bandwidth efficient & implement digital audio making AM radio analog upper side band & digital on the lower side band like the drm modulation. I do understand, this is an OTA for TV & not radio. But think about this; The FCC is who is in charge of the OTA, band for what ever it is used for. So write those we send to Washington.


----------



## Aero 1

interesting article on ARS today

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...v-channels.ars 



> Quote:
> Extending WiFi to one mile, thanks to empty TV channels
> 
> 
> Rice University grad student Ryan Guerra is on a mission to extend the range of WiFi signals from a few hundred feet to a mileand beyond. This month, he succeeded, thanks to some nifty engineering and a few empty TV channels.
> 
> 
> The first beneficiary of his work is Houston resident Leticia Aguirre, 48, who lives at the very edge of a local free WiFi network run by Technology for All. The high frequencies (2.4 GHz and 5 GHz) used by WiFi mean that signals don't easily penetrate the tree branches and leaves which surrounded Aguirre's home.
> 
> 
> On the "deadest, stillest day of winter" the signal might be reliable, Guerra told me, but most of the year, it has been frustratingly intermittent. Even though the WiFi connection was free and Aguirre can't afford DSL or cable, her experience was so poor she considered canceling the service.
> 
> 
> Guerra decided to use Aguirre's home as the first location for new "Super WiFi" test gear being developed and tested at Rice. Instead of relying on traditional WiFi frequencies, the Super WiFi project downshifts the signal into an empty TV channelin this case, channel 29, which has the additional virtue of having empty adjacent channels, as well.
> 
> 
> Guerra is part of a Rice team led by professors Edward Knightly, Robert Stein, Lin Zhong, and William Reed that last year won a $1.8 million grant from the National Science Foundation. The team's goal is basic research on providing broadband in the TV "white spaces"empty channels that the government recently cleared for use by unlicensed Internet providers. Such tests have been done on a small scaleMicrosoft ran a white spaces network on its corporate campus, for instancebut the Rice team wanted a real-world urban environment. They also wanted to start by using existing WiFi protocols.
> 
> 
> Guerra was put in charge of creating the Super WiFi gear for Aguirre's home, which was one mile from the Technology for All transmission tower. He began with an off-the-shelf 2.4GHz WiFi card on a computer running Linux. The card's output is piped through a frequency translator prototype from Alcatel Lucent, which shifts the signal down to Channel 29's 563MHzfar better for plowing through trees and walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guerra installing the Super WiFi antenna
> 
> 
> While WiFi channels at 2.4GHz are 20MHz wide, TV channels only have 6MHz of bandwidth, so this setup also has to squeeze the incoming signal down to 5MHz of bandwidth in order to stay safely within channel boundaries (in the future, techniques like channel bonding should increase the available bandwidth). Output from the translator then goes to a small TV antenna on Aguirre's home, where it's sent to the local Pecan Park transmission tower and patched into the fiber backbone connection there.
> 
> 
> The setup "actually works very well," says Guerra. The longest link he could make with existing point-to-point WiFi connections was 400-500 feet; with the new Super WiFi gear in the TV band, he can reach a mileand it's not a point-to-point signal. Instead, the transmitter serves up a directional 60 degree beam, and anyone in its path can receive broadband service.
> 
> 
> The wider signal beam also has a side benefit: smaller antennas. Aguirre used to require an antenna mounted on a 30 foot pole in order to get a line-of-sight, point-to-point connection; the newer setup doesn't need this kind of tight alignment, and so Aguirre now uses a much more discreet TV antenna.
> 
> 
> Results so far have been good. Rice has worked with mesh WiFi networks for years, but researchers have noted that the quality of channels varies dramatically over time. The new connection has been quite stable, even with leafy trees and through bad weather, and has yet to show any interference or connection problems, even at a mile from the transmitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From left to right: UHF-band filter, frequency translator, PC motherboard and WiFi card, power supply
> 
> 
> The current approach has some bandwidth limitations. Because it uses existing WiFi protocols but uses only 25 percent of WiFi's bandwidth, Guerra's setup will never get more than 25 percent of WiFi's maximum throughputand indeed, that's what he's seeing.
> 
> 
> The greater range of Super WiFi gear means that the current setup will also run into problems as it scales up. WiFi uses a Carrier Sense Multiple Access (CSMA) approach to sending data, which means that WiFi transmitters try to detect other nearby transmitters and wait for them to fall silent before sending data of their own. This works pretty well when only a few devices coexist, but it can become chaotic when hundreds of nodes are involved.
> 
> 
> As Guerra rolls out his Super WiFi solution to other Pecan Park residents, he anticipates running into CSMA congestion, which will lower the efficiency of the network. Eventually, whole new protocols may be required, probably relying on scheduled access mechanisms in which transmitters are assigned specific time slices wherein they can transmit without having to detect other signals (cell networks often work this way, and companies like Microsoft are already researching new protocols for use in the TV white spaces).
> 
> 
> But the work has shown that empty TV channels will be a huge boon for broadband. Urban areas will likely rely on wireline networks, but Guerra sees terrific potential for people like his rural relatives, who need better last-mile connections. If Super WiFi can easily reach a mile in urban conditions, it's likely to go further in rural locations.
> 
> 
> Guerra's work doesn't just involve time spent at the lab bench or with computer models, giving him a unique grad school experience. "I didn't realize how unique it was until I started going out in the field and installing equipment," he says, until he would return from a trip to see other grad students looking up in jealousy from their computers.


----------



## keyboard21

Update on the CBS 2.1 break up and interference. I really thought this was a CBS issue since we never had problems before. Well I went for a visit and saw the extra coax was bunched in front of the antenna. The antenna fell one day and pulled extra cable. So when she put it back and I double checked. I did not see or pay attention to the Extra cable. Anyway that was the reason for the interference. I corrected this and pulled the cable away from the antenna and put is closer to the TV.


This looks like it fixed the problem. Are all Antennas this temperamental? I never thought extra coax cable would cause interference.


Very strange indeed.


Just want you guys to know it was my problem and not CBS. So anyone having same break up better look at their antenna and cable line.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20359325
> 
> 
> Update on the CBS 2.1 break up and interference. I really thought this was a CBS issue since we never had problems before. Well I went for a visit and saw the extra coax was bunched in front of the antenna. The antenna fell one day and pulled extra cable. So when she put it back and I double checked. I did not see or pay attention to the Extra cable. Anyway that was the reason for the interference. I corrected this and pulled the cable away from the antenna and put is closer to the TV.
> 
> 
> This looks like it fixed the problem. Are all Antennas this temperamental? I never thought extra coax cable would cause interference.
> 
> 
> Very strange indeed.
> 
> 
> Just want you guys to know it was my problem and not CBS. So anyone having same break up better look at their antenna and cable line.



no problem my bill is in the mail, jk i had feeling that your problem was static, usually problems don't show up without some kind of warning, one happy go lucky fellow










aero1 nice article i use a small dish 20 inch that i bought from ebay for $5 shipping included believe it or not, lol i use the dish to grab signals from around here, (recreation purposes) not to steal internet, what spur me was that i had lots of drop connections, so far i have found over 40 wifi connections only 3 open connections, I just wanted stronger signal on my network wifi


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20359890
> 
> 
> no problem my bill is in the mail, jk i had feeling that your problem was static, usually problems don't show up without some kind of warning, one happy go lucky fellow



Hey thanks. Well you know sometimes you miss things. Did you ever hear of Coax cable making interference? Is this normal?


----------



## LenL

Did you happen to notice what type of Coax it was? There are different kinds with different properties. Was it RG6 quad, Plain RG6, RG59 etc....?


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20359890
> 
> 
> aero1 nice article i use a small dish 20 inch that i bought from ebay for $5 shipping included believe it or not, lol i use the dish to grab signals from around here, (recreation purposes) not to steal internet, what spur me was that i had lots of drop connections, so far i have found over 40 wifi connections only 3 open connections, I just wanted stronger signal on my network wifi



Can you give me some more info or point me to an auction for the type of dish you're using? How does it connect to your network card? Some type of pigtail adapter?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20362481
> 
> 
> Did you happen to notice what type of Coax it was? There are different kinds with different properties. Was it RG6 quad, Plain RG6, RG59 etc....?



Yes I know exactly what it is. Since I bought it. It is TERK Brand HD RG6. igot at Best buy


Here is the link so you can see it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ERK-_-82145045 

When I used this and compared to extra cable I had from Cable company. This Terk cable gave me 5 signal strength more.



Would The RG6 Quad or RG 59 be better I am assuming I have the RG6 plain? Even though the package says HD on it or For HD.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20363881
> 
> 
> Yes I know exactly what it is. Since I bought it. It is TERK Brand HD RG6. igot at Best buy
> 
> 
> Here is the link so you can see it.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ERK-_-82145045
> 
> When I used this and compared to extra cable I had from Cable company. This Terk cable gave me 5 signal strength more.
> 
> 
> 
> Would The RG6 Quad or RG 59 be better I am assuming I have the RG6 plain? Even though the package says HD on it or For HD.



You probably know more about cables than I do. What I do know is that RG59 is NOT as good as RG6. That RG6 Quad shield is better at preventing problems with interference from other devices. Possilby Quad Shield RG6 would not have given you the issues you had.


I don't know what you had. You would have to cut the wire and see how much shielding there was. Was their one layer of foil? Was there a layer of foil and metal braid? Other than is saying so on the wire you would have to cut it to find out.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20364584
> 
> 
> You probably know more about cables than I do. What I do know is that RG59 is NOT as good as RG6. That RG6 Quad shield is better at preventing problems with interference from other devices. Possilby Quad Shield RG6 would not have given you the issues you had.
> 
> 
> I don't know what you had. You would have to cut the wire and see how much shielding there was. Was their one layer of foil? Was there a layer of foil and metal braid? Other than is saying so on the wire you would have to cut it to find out.



Nope not going to throw away money in this economy by ruing a cable. All I can tell you is that it had for HD on the package and was the cheapest HD quality I could get. I wanted one that said for HD. I have no clue if that was just a marketing ploy. That is why I gave you a link to show you what I bought.


the picture shows a diagram of how much shielding
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....rl=false&h=387


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/20363089
> 
> 
> Can you give me some more info or point me to an auction for the type of dish you're using? How does it connect to your network card? Some type of pigtail adapter?



sure, you need a small satellite dish, with no lnb attached ( it cost more with lnb) and you don't need for this application so just get a plain dish, most of sellers at ebay ask for lots of $$ for new dish, new dish is not needed a used one is fine, but ask the seller or inquire of condition of the reflector specially if they picture is stock photo, the reflector of dish must not have too much damage ei.. warp or scraped on surface, that can give you bad results, I know this because i read up on this (did some research before buying). me I bought just the reflector from a guy for $5 i made a stand and dish arm that goes in front of dish, but is best to get a dish with stand and focal arm. as for how to connect it to your card or adapter. I use a wireless adapter not a card, a card is trickier but that can also be used. I needed to built a cantenna to mount it on focal point of dish, so my wireless adapter can be at focal point of dish. what the cantenna does is focus all the incoming signals into adapter. the cantenna is easy to do, just a cut a hole in the can 4" from the bottom of coffee can, then you insert adapter inside the can, the reason for cantenna is because wireless adapter are multi directional you want the adapter to be able to pickup from one direction. I know it seems like its lots of work, but believe me is not once you have material is 123. if you're using a card not adapter then it is more work. if you're interested on this project " google cantenna" if you have a particular question , pm me


----------



## J_ph

TV fool indicates my distance to NYC at 36.9 miles and philly at 59.1 miles. Having a preference for NYC channels I used this info to point my antenna last year towards NYC channels @ 107degrees. But, based on the chart the signal strength appears to be better for the Philadelphia stations. I haven't been successful with PBS and now that the leaves are starting to come back, my signal for FOX is degrading.


Is the signal coming from Philadelphia stronger as it originates from the their transmitter or is the better signal strength due to geography?


If this was your chart where would you point your antenna?


thanks,


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/20367592
> 
> 
> If this was your chart where would you point your antenna?



If that was my chart, I'd have two antennas. http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/merging.html 


And I'd try to mount them as high as possible.


----------



## LenL

You probably mentioned this in a previous post but this poster asking about getting Philly stations from Morris county (my county) causes my question for you. Given your location I would think you have a better shot at getting Philly stations then he does. Have you tried?


----------



## J_ph

Hi James... there's numbers and schematics and stuff on that link! : ) just kidding.


I was hoping to limit the visual impact of my roof:antenna ratio.


But if I do go this route does this linked info say that although there is signal lose, that 2 antenna can be used without an A/B switch?


regards j


----------



## J_ph

Hi Len


> I would think you have a better shot at getting Philly stations then he does. Have you tried?


I haven't tried it yet, I'd have to position the mount in a different manner to point it in that direction. I'd probably miss the local news though...


Do you think that it's just geography as to why the signal strength is better even though they are almost 20 miles further away?


regards


j


----------



## rothe

Quote:

Originally Posted by *LenL* 
You probably mentioned this in a previous post but this poster asking about getting Philly stations from Morris county (my county) causes my question for you. Given your location I would think you have a better shot at getting Philly stations then he does. Have you tried?
I have not tried. And yes, I agree, I probably could pull some useful signals. But on a practical level, there's nothing for me to gain by aiming an antenna towards Philly. There's only one network that I'm feeling any substantial loss from not receiving from New York, and that's WNET. And I get both WNJN and WLIW reliably, filling in most of that programming gap.


Now, if I could do something to pick up WHYY (PBS in Philly), then I might consider it, but WHYY is on channel 12, and I just don't want another VHF antenna that would be required to pick it up.


----------



## rothe

Quote:

Originally Posted by *J_ph* 
Hi James... there's numbers and schematics and stuff on that link! : ) just kidding.


I was hoping to limit the visual impact of my roof:antenna ratio.
I have a coworker who's big into Ham radio. His old Subaru looks like a porcupine with all the antennas he has mounted to the roof! I would think a house could accommodate even more!









Quote:

But if I do go this route does this linked info say that although there is signal lose, that 2 antenna can be used without an A/B switch?


regards j
That's exactly what it's saying.


Now I have a little bit different solution/enhancement in mind for myself, and it will (likely) work well for me because of the tuner situation that I have at home. But this will be a pretty major undertaking for most folks with traditional antenna and TV configurations. Regardless, let me spell it out for anyone here that could benefit from a similar setup.


I mentioned earlier that I can receive WLIW pretty reliably. That was true up until several days ago when I last tried (in vain) to reorient the antenna to pick up WNET without losing other stations. When I was finished, I re-aimed the antenna to point directly at the Empire transmitters. In so doing, I weakened my reception of WLIW to the point that it occasionally drops out in foul weather. We've had dense fog at the shore during the last few overnights, to the point that I can't record anything reliably from WLIW.


Well, I have a new UHF antenna (a Winegard HD-9022) that I've been planning to mount for the past few weeks, and it will be pointed straight at WLIW. It will likely be used only for WLIW, even if there are other stations that I might pick up from Empire on the same antenna.


Now here's the intriguing part: I'm not going to use a combiner or mechanical switch. I rarely mention it here, but the home-theater personal computer (HTPC) software that I'm using - Beyond TV ( http://www.snapstream.com/products/beyondtv/ ) allows me to have multiple tuners in the PC, each with their own signal source (OTA, cable, satellite, FIOS, separate antennas, etc.). So that second antenna that I'm about to add will get its own downlead with its own tuner dedicated to WLIW. In all, I'll have five tuners in one HTPC. The HTPC can record from any channel, automatically selecting tuners (and their respective antennas and channel line-ups) as needed. That HTPC is also networked to the other computers and TV-viewing stations (old laptops with attached TVs) throughout the house, so each "TV" can watch live or recorded TV served from the main HTPC, and the selection of tuners/antennas will be completely transparent to the user.


The HTPC effectively functions as an automated antenna switch, along with its other duties as a multiple-tuner, multi-sourced personal video recorder and video server. I have frequent visitors coming to vacation at the shore, and the overall system is functional enough for even the least technically-proficient among them to watch live TV or recorded programs/movies without feeling like they're using a computer.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/20367796
> 
> 
> Hi Len
> 
> 
> > I would think you have a better shot at getting Philly stations then he does. Have you tried?
> 
> 
> I haven't tried it yet, I'd have to position the mount in a different manner to point it in that direction. I'd probably miss the local news though...
> 
> 
> Do you think that it's just geography as to why the signal strength is better even though they are almost 20 miles further away?
> 
> 
> regards
> 
> 
> j



Actually where I am there are lots of hills. Rothe is in the flats at the shore and has a straight shot to Philly with no mountains in between.


Not sure where you are in Morris county but if you are high up in the hills and nothing between you and Philly you are good to go.


All of the websites that show what stations I can get based on my location don't show me being even close to getting signal from Philly.


I am building another antenna so I can give it a try for the heck of it when I try it out later in May.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/20367592
> 
> 
> TV fool indicates my distance to NYC at 36.9 miles and philly at 59.1 miles. Having a preference for NYC channels I used this info to point my antenna last year towards NYC channels @ 107degrees. But, based on the chart the signal strength appears to be better for the Philadelphia stations. I haven't been successful with PBS and now that the leaves are starting to come back, my signal for FOX is degrading.
> 
> 
> Is the signal coming from Philadelphia stronger as it originates from the their transmitter or is the better signal strength due to geography?
> 
> 
> If this was your chart where would you point your antenna?
> 
> 
> thanks,



J_ph - looking at this again, I'm trying to guess roughly where you are. Chester, or that vicinity - correct?


And looking at your signal strength chart, I'm going to guess that you're in a valley, without any chance of mounting an antenna high enough to get a line-of-sight (LOS) view of either city's transmitters.


In short, you're screwed.


About the only things that you can try are really huge antennas, and the tallest antenna masts that you can safely mount.


What kind of antenna are you using, and how high is it mounted?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/20369736
> 
> 
> J_ph - looking at this again, I'm trying to guess roughly where you are. Chester, or that vicinity o - correct?
> 
> 
> And looking at your signal strength chart, I'm going to guess that you're in a valley, without any chance of mounting an antenna high enough to get a line-of-sight (LOS) view of either city's transmitters.
> 
> 
> In short, you're screwed.
> 
> 
> About the only things that you can try are really huge antennas, and the tallest antenna masts that you can safely mount.
> 
> 
> What kind of antenna are you using, and how high is it mounted?



realisticly with a superbly performing antennas direct 91xg and winegard ya1713 high vhf antenna he should get stations down to wpix or 18 db nm. I got a buddy at work that resides in manalapan nj, next to englishtown right in middle between philly and nyc he gets both dmas there is another forum member in philly ota: his username is T-Max that lives bridgewater nj he gets 3 dmas philly nyc allentown, so you got a shot


----------



## rothe

So I *just* finished putting up that new antenna for WLIW reception, only a few minutes ago. Checked the signal strength via the new tuner and... nothing! Hooked up the spectrum analyzer and - NOTHING!


I'm getting other stations via this new antenna, but WLIW has a flat line (noise floor) where there should be a perfectly clean signal.


They got knocked off the air from the storms that blew through earlier today, didn't they?


(It's my fault - I know. If I hadn't planned on installing a new antenna, everything would be fine.)


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/20370408
> 
> 
> So I *just* finished putting up that new antenna for WLIW reception, only a few minutes ago. Checked the signal strength via the new tuner and... nothing! Hooked up the spectrum analyzer and - NOTHING!
> 
> 
> I'm getting other stations via this new antenna, but WLIW has a flat line (noise floor) where there should be a perfectly clean signal.
> 
> 
> They got knocked off the air from the storms that blew through earlier today, didn't they?
> 
> 
> (It's my fault - I know. If I hadn't planned on installing a new antenna, everything would be fine.)



wait a minute you put up an antenna today with this great weather we're having? you got more cohones than I.









what type of antenna did you install ? wliw was ok today, no problems I recorded a nova show earlier, probably a no show cos of storm, try again jimmy


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20370533
> 
> 
> wait a minute you put up an antenna today with this great weather we're having? you got more cohones than I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what type of antenna did you install ? wliw was ok today, no problems I recorded a nova show earlier, probably a no show cos of storm, try again jimmy



Actually, it was dead calm and clearing when I got home from work today, so no troubles with the installation. And I have incredibly easy access, too. No ladders, and a flat roof just below and adjacent to the gable-mounted mast. So no, my gi-normous cojones didn't even come into play here.










That signal was non-existant when I wrote that earlier, on both antennas even though other stations were fine on both. I'll try again later tonight.


----------



## keyboard21

Hey any more news on the new CBS Sub station coming this Spring? What it will be ect?


I found this so far:
*

EXCLUSIVE: CBS to Launch Digital Channels

Set to debut in New York and Los Angeles in third quarter

By Michael Malone -- Broadcasting & Cable, 3/14/2011 12:01:00 AM

CBS will soon announce the rollout of its first digital subchannels, which are slated to launch in New York and Los Angeles in the third quarter. Content will be comprised of local news from the various TV and sports/ news radio stations in a given market, likely supplemented by CBS’ deep vault of programming from company properties including CNET.


While stations’ ventures onto the digital tier have been lightly watched, and sparsely sponsored, CBS Corp. President/CEO Leslie Moonves suggests the company’s programming assets and unique approach will make much more of an impact than the typical news and weather filler found on a station’s .2.


The launch will bring CBS on par with the ABC (Live Well Network) and NBC (Nonstop) O&O groups. Anton Guitano, CBS Local Media Group COO, describes the as-yet untitled channels as “natural extensions” of the new local CBS Websites. Of course, CBS may be hard-pressed to make real revenue off the .2 venture, at least in the near term.*


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20371114
> 
> 
> Hey any more news on the new CBS Sub station coming this Spring? What it will be ect?
> 
> 
> I found this so far:
> *
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: CBS to Launch Digital Channels
> 
> Set to debut in New York and Los Angeles in third quarter
> 
> By Michael Malone -- Broadcasting & Cable, 3/14/2011 12:01:00 AM
> 
> CBS will soon announce the rollout of its first digital subchannels, which are slated to launch in New York and Los Angeles in the third quarter. Content will be comprised of local news from the various TV and sports/ news radio stations in a given market, likely supplemented by CBS' deep vault of programming from company properties including CNET.
> 
> 
> While stations' ventures onto the digital tier have been lightly watched, and sparsely sponsored, CBS Corp. President/CEO Leslie Moonves suggests the company's programming assets and unique approach will make much more of an impact than the typical news and weather filler found on a station's .2.
> 
> 
> The launch will bring CBS on par with the ABC (Live Well Network) and NBC (Nonstop) O&O groups. Anton Guitano, CBS Local Media Group COO, describes the as-yet untitled channels as natural extensions of the new local CBS Websites. Of course, CBS may be hard-pressed to make real revenue off the .2 venture, at least in the near term.*



christmas got here soon for ya, you wanted that news channel haha


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20371335
> 
> 
> christmas got here soon for ya, you wanted that news channel haha



Ya I said 24/7 news this looks more like a jumble of stuff


----------



## rothe

WLIW signal was non-existent for me when I went to bed last night. Not just weak, but non-existent, as per the spectrum analyzer. Usually, a signal that is broadcasting will at least show SOMETHING on the analyzer, even if it's way too weak for the tuners.


Interestingly, I was able to pick up WNET reliably, though.


As of this writing, WLIW is back to its normal signal strength, and WNET has weakened to the point where it's choppy. Oh well. "Situation Normal..." as they say.


----------



## J_ph




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/20369736
> 
> 
> J_ph - looking at this again, I'm trying to guess roughly where you are. Chester, or that vicinity - correct?
> 
> 
> What kind of antenna are you using, and how high is it mounted?



Yup. Chester. I have a CM4228 + CM7777 mounted on the roof 2 story bldg. As I mentioned I get the major networks 2/4/5/7/9/11 but Fox is the only one that breaks up. Even though I have it pointed towards NYC I can pull in 3.1 from Philly so after checking the chart again I started to wonder about pointing it towards PA.


Am I reading the chart correctly? the Philadelphia stations are almost twice as strong? CBS (2.1) for example is 10.2 but CBS (3.1) is 20. I'm assuming that this is the calculated/estimated strength for my location?


So if I'm getting OK stations from NYC then Philadelphia stations should be better? The only problem is that I need a mast extension to point in that direction. I only need 20" but it's currently on a J-mount.


Although now that I see the CBS announcement for NY sub channels I may be making a mistake.... which gets back to your 2 antenna idea.


----------



## LenL

I have the same setup as you and for me 5.1 comes in at over 90 and 2.1 breaks up. On the otherhand my homebuilt picks up 2.1 over 90 and 5.1 breaks up. So a strong signal for 5.1 is there...and ditto for 2.1. It's just a question of the antenna capturing it or not.


There are factors at work with digital reception that are hard to explain but there are reasons for issues and I think you are far better off going for the stations in NY that are closer. But you will have to experiment. I have found TV fool very unreliable and not even close to explaining what I can and can't receive well. Why? They don't account very well for the actual antenna being used, trees, elevation, weather issues etc.


Keep us posted on your progress!


----------



## tahoejoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20371114
> 
> 
> Hey any more news on the new CBS Sub station coming this Spring? What it will be ect?
> 
> 
> [/b]



Another article on the CBS Subchannel from early April:


"CBS to Launch New "HD Screensaver," "Boxcar TV" Subchannels

By Trip Ericson on Friday, April 1 2011, 02:30 - Opinion - Permalink

In an unexpected announcement, CBS today confirmed the coming launch of the "HD Screensaver" and "Boxcar TV" channels, launching soon on all its owned and operated stations.


The CBS official making the announcement noted the "huge, untapped market" looking for a 1080i screensaver for their HDTVs, and stated that he "look forward to adding another [useless] subchannel" to the CBS O&O group. He also noted that the "Boxcar TV" channel, "will likely consist of a looping video of a boxcar being filled with cargo, intermixed with advertising."


The launch is expected to make CBS first major market owner to launch dual 1080i with dual SD, with no stations at all currently utilizing dual 1080i alone or in conjunction with additional SD subchannels. CBS previously announced the addition of a subchannel to its owned and operated stations in New York and Los Angeles in the third quarter.


FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski was pleased with the news. "I will not rest until the pristine HD picture quality Americans were promised for free as part of the digital transition is a distant memory, along with competition in the cell phone market," he said, making note of the recent announcement of a merger between AT&T and T-Mobile. "My high-paying job after leaving the FCC depends on it."


Estimates suggest that the new networks already rate higher than NBC's "Nonstop" subchannels, despite not yet being launched, but the picture quality of the "HD Screensaver" network is expected to be competitive with that of NBC Universal Sports.


Response to the announcement was mixed, A comment from an anonymous Fox employee was horrified. "We use our splicer technology to ensure the same picture is seen on all of our affiliate stations. Except, of course, the ones that bypass it."


An ABC employee who asked to remain anonymous told RabbitEars.Info, "I don't see why they don't simply simulcast the HD Screensaver channel in SD instead of launching that boxcar channel. We're doing it with Live Well and the benefits can't be counted." He later clarified, "that's because there aren't any."


An official with PBS affiliate WYIN took it one step further. "I don't see why they don't simulcast their main CBS channel in HD and SD in addition to all these subchannels. It's working just fine for us."


Frequent HDTV message board commenter Rammitinski's head exploded upon hearing the news. He was unable to give a comment.


But a staff member at Tribune-owned CW affiliate WPIX had only positive things to say about the news, comparing it to their own station. "The possibilities of extra subchannels are so endless that they cannot possibly be seen. People watching stations with those subchannels have their eyes get blurry with excitement. Our viewers certainly know all about that."


Sunshine Broadcasting, owner of WARP-CD in Tampa, also praised the move. "Nothing says high-quality local programming like subchannels. My station proves that."


Plans call for the CBS-network affiliates in the O&O group to launch these additional subchannels, with the CBS official noting that, "the demographic that watches CW is much too valuable. We do not wish to be indifferented to death if we make such a change to those stations."


When pressed about whether the launch of the "Boxcar TV" service in particular was a sarcastic response to Chairman Genachowski's "empty boxcars" comment, CBS officials snickered and said, "No, of course not. Wherever would you get such a ridiculous idea?" They later commented that the service, lacking things like sets, writers, and actors, would "be more cost-effective than actual programming," and based on the history of reality shows, "would likely win several timeslots."


The new subchannels are expected to launch some time shortly after the launch of the Dot2 network.


Happy April Fool's Day, everyone. =)"


----------



## Trip in VA

Ah yes, my April Fool's article.










- Trip


----------



## J_ph




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20372460
> 
> 
> They don't account very well for the actual antenna being used, trees, elevation, weather issues etc.
> 
> 
> Keep us posted on your progress!



Because I suspect that trees are my problem, I think my first attempt will be to adjust the tilt of the antenna slightly higher and see if that improves anything. Unfortunately it won't be for a couple days before I can try it.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/20372964
> 
> 
> Because I suspect that trees are my problem, I think my first attempt will be to adjust the tilt of the antenna slightly higher and see if that improves anything. Unfortunately it won't be for a couple days before I can try it.



Also, try these techniques:


Move the antenna closer or farther away from the transmitter by a distance equivalent to 1/4 of the wavelength of your problem station. Because you're having good reception of all of the stations except for one, I expect that you're dealing with a cancelling reflection at a distance that is some multiple of half of that station's wavelength. The idea is to get out of the path of any standing waves caused by multipath. See this wavelength table (MS Excel format) on my web site for the appropriate distance:

http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/wavelengths.xls 


Unfortunately, if I'm right about this, then you might just shift the problem to another frequency. But the signal strength of the unreflected signal is probably not the problem, as evidenced by your success with those other channels. Move the antenna fore and aft to enough different positions, and you WILL find a sweet spot for all of your channels. (Well, OK. *MAYBE* you will.)



Assure that the antenna is at least one wavelength away from any reflecting surface, whether behind, below or even above it. In fact, if your antenna is mounted to the side of the house with a wall behind it (relative to the location of the transmitter), then change your mounting method and get it above the roof-line.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/20372645
> 
> 
> Another article on the CBS Subchannel from early April:
> 
> 
> "CBS to Launch New "HD Screensaver," "Boxcar TV" Subchannels
> 
> By Trip Ericson on Friday, April 1 2011, 02:30 - Opinion - Permalink
> 
> In an unexpected announcement, CBS today confirmed the coming launch of the "HD Screensaver" and "Boxcar TV" channels, launching soon on all its owned and operated stations.
> 
> 
> The CBS official making the announcement noted the "huge, untapped market" looking for a 1080i screensaver for their HDTVs, and stated that he "look forward to adding another [useless] subchannel" to the CBS O&O group. He also noted that the "Boxcar TV" channel, "will likely consist of a looping video of a boxcar being filled with cargo, intermixed with advertising."
> 
> 
> The launch is expected to make CBS first major market owner to launch dual 1080i with dual SD, with no stations at all currently utilizing dual 1080i alone or in conjunction with additional SD subchannels. CBS previously announced the addition of a subchannel to its owned and operated stations in New York and Los Angeles in the third quarter.
> 
> 
> FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski was pleased with the news. "I will not rest until the pristine HD picture quality Americans were promised for free as part of the digital transition is a distant memory, along with competition in the cell phone market," he said, making note of the recent announcement of a merger between AT&T and T-Mobile. "My high-paying job after leaving the FCC depends on it."
> 
> 
> Estimates suggest that the new networks already rate higher than NBC's "Nonstop" subchannels, despite not yet being launched, but the picture quality of the "HD Screensaver" network is expected to be competitive with that of NBC Universal Sports.
> 
> 
> Response to the announcement was mixed, A comment from an anonymous Fox employee was horrified. "We use our splicer technology to ensure the same picture is seen on all of our affiliate stations. Except, of course, the ones that bypass it."
> 
> 
> An ABC employee who asked to remain anonymous told RabbitEars.Info, "I don't see why they don't simply simulcast the HD Screensaver channel in SD instead of launching that boxcar channel. We're doing it with Live Well and the benefits can't be counted." He later clarified, "that's because there aren't any."
> 
> 
> An official with PBS affiliate WYIN took it one step further. "I don't see why they don't simulcast their main CBS channel in HD and SD in addition to all these subchannels. It's working just fine for us."
> 
> 
> Frequent HDTV message board commenter Rammitinski's head exploded upon hearing the news. He was unable to give a comment.
> 
> 
> But a staff member at Tribune-owned CW affiliate WPIX had only positive things to say about the news, comparing it to their own station. "The possibilities of extra subchannels are so endless that they cannot possibly be seen. People watching stations with those subchannels have their eyes get blurry with excitement. Our viewers certainly know all about that."
> 
> 
> Sunshine Broadcasting, owner of WARP-CD in Tampa, also praised the move. "Nothing says high-quality local programming like subchannels. My station proves that."
> 
> 
> Plans call for the CBS-network affiliates in the O&O group to launch these additional subchannels, with the CBS official noting that, "the demographic that watches CW is much too valuable. We do not wish to be indifferented to death if we make such a change to those stations."
> 
> 
> When pressed about whether the launch of the "Boxcar TV" service in particular was a sarcastic response to Chairman Genachowski's "empty boxcars" comment, CBS officials snickered and said, "No, of course not. Wherever would you get such a ridiculous idea?" They later commented that the service, lacking things like sets, writers, and actors, would "be more cost-effective than actual programming," and based on the history of reality shows, "would likely win several timeslots."
> 
> 
> The new subchannels are expected to launch some time shortly after the launch of the Dot2 network.
> 
> 
> Happy April Fool's Day, everyone. =)"





I was being serious. Guess you were not. lol


----------



## nycdigital09

nice one trip, you even had me going for a moment till I the read the part of screensaver bit lol


----------



## J_ph




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/20373749
> 
> 
> In fact, if your antenna is mounted to the side of the house with a wall behind it (relative to the location of the transmitter), then change your mounting method and get it above the roof-line.



it is mounted on a j-mount so there is a slight pitch of the roof behind the antenna, I may try to raise it above the pitch.


The reason I think it's the tree's is because the reception only recently starting to degrade when the leaves started to appear.


I've read a couple areas that mention 15-20 degree tilt, and some mention to point it above the horizon or above the tree line. In either case it would be within the 15-20 degree area. Currently the antenna has zero tilt.


How much tolerance is there to pointing an antenna like a CM4228HD? is it 1-3 degrees or more like 4-8 degrees? Unfortunately since non of our TVs show signal strength I need to rely upon the picture quality.


----------



## TitusTroy

new to OTA and I'm looking for advice on a good OTA indoor antenna...my sister lives in Manhattan and has cut the cable cord...would an OTA antenna have a good signal amongst all the tall buildings?...anyone have any recommendations on a good quality antenna at hopefully a decent price?


also since I'm new to OTA, I just wanted to make sure that as long as my TV has a built in tuner then all I would need to do is plug the antenna into the TV and no other connections (besides the TV power cord) are needed correct?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TitusTroy* /forum/post/20375746
> 
> 
> new to OTA and I'm looking for advice on a good OTA indoor antenna...my sister lives in Manhattan and has cut the cable cord...would an OTA antenna have a good signal amongst all the tall buildings?...anyone have any recommendations on a good quality antenna at hopefully a decent price?
> 
> 
> also since I'm new to OTA, I just wanted to make sure that as long as my TV has a built in tuner then all I would need to do is plug the antenna into the TV and no other connections (besides the TV power cord) are needed correct?



Your post is a little confusing. She cut the cable cord already without even seeing if she can get OTA? You did use past tense. Most people would test first and then cut the cable cord. I would suggest testing with rabbit ears or buying an indoor antenna from a major retailer where you can return it easily. Try Best Buy, Walmart, Radio Shack. As far as what would work for her it depends on many factors. Simple rabbit ears may work great or you may have to find something more sophisticated. I don't use an indoor antenna but you will get ideas from posters on this forum who do.


As to your situation....as long as your TV has a digital tuner you are all set. If not you will have to get a Digital to Analog converter box. Since you did not divulge the specific make and model of your TV that is all I can say.


----------



## SnellKrell

TitusTroy -


As has been suggested, be sure you can return/exchange an antenna that doesn't work in your sister's home.


I would first try the "TERK HDTV i" indoor antenna - it might very well be what you're looking for.


Good luck!


----------



## TitusTroy

thanks for the responses...sorry for the confusion...my sister has already gotten rid of cable and but she can aways go back to one of the basic cable tiers if need be...I'm the one who suggested OTA for her to try first


her current TV has a Built-in analog/digital tuner (NTSC/ATSC)...as far as the indoor antenna I was reading some posts in this thread about antennas with booster signals which can extend the range so I thought that might be the way to go


thanks for the suggestion on the TERK HDTV antenna...I will definitely give that a look at my local Radio Shack etc and also make sure that it has a good return policy...I really don't want to try out a bunch of different antennas so that's why I was wondering if there was 1 in particular that worked for people living in large cities with lots of building interference


I'll probably try the TERK and if that doesn't work I'll just tell her to get the basic cable package


----------



## SnellKrell

Be sure to buy the Terk antenna with the HDTV "i" suffix - that's the one without a built-in amplifier!


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TitusTroy* /forum/post/20376443
> 
> 
> thanks for the responses...sorry for the confusion...my sister has already gotten rid of cable and but she can aways go back to one of the basic cable tiers if need be...I'm the one who suggested OTA for her to try first
> 
> 
> her current TV has a Built-in analog/digital tuner (NTSC/ATSC)...as far as the indoor antenna I was reading some posts in this thread about antennas with booster signals which can extend the range so I thought that might be the way to go
> 
> 
> thanks for the suggestion on the TERK HDTV antenna...I will definitely give that a look at my local Radio Shack etc and also make sure that it has a good return policy...I really don't want to try out a bunch of different antennas so that's why I was wondering if there was 1 in particular that worked for people living in large cities with lots of building interference
> 
> 
> I'll probably try the TERK and if that doesn't work I'll just tell her to get the basic cable package



WOW is her signal that bad.


I do not have tv cable & I prefer to send cost of the basic tv cable $ to Red Cross for the victom of tis week's tornado.


----------



## TitusTroy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David-the-dtv-ma* /forum/post/20376997
> 
> 
> WOW is her signal that bad.
> 
> 
> I do not have tv cable & I prefer to send cost of the basic tv cable $ to Red Cross for the victom of tis week's tornado.



I would love to cut the cord but unfortunately I've become addicted to certain shows on HBO, AMC and a few other non OTA channels...you can pay for cable and still donate to charity so one doesn't preclude the other


OT: 1000th post!...ding!...what do I win?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TitusTroy* /forum/post/20375746
> 
> 
> new to OTA and I'm looking for advice on a good OTA indoor antenna...my sister lives in Manhattan and has cut the cable cord...would an OTA antenna have a good signal amongst all the tall buildings?...anyone have any recommendations on a good quality antenna at hopefully a decent price?
> 
> 
> also since I'm new to OTA, I just wanted to make sure that as long as my TV has a built in tuner then all I would need to do is plug the antenna into the TV and no other connections (besides the TV power cord) are needed correct?



You might want to look at this thread first. This person RATED many antennas. He put it in an easy Excel format. This will help you choose.


The right antenna for you does not always mean it is the best for someone else.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779 


How far is she from the Empire State Building?


You can use www.tvfool.com 


to let you pulg in her address and it will tell you how far and what direction the Channels are from you. This will help you aim the antenna.


YES, You have a TV like mine with both tuners. So all you need is a good antenna. I find the Boxes have a better tuner (more Sensitive) then TV turners.


It all depends where you antenna is and how far from the TV. Also are you putting it outside or inside? If you have a cable that is longer then 25 to 100 feet (could be wrong about 25, could be 50) Anyway a NON amp antenna with a ADD on PRE amp that you buy separate would be the best choice. So I hear,


We use a Terk-55 and love it. One other here tried it and it did a bad job for them. So what works for others does not mean it will for you.


This is more of an art form then science. imo


GLTY


PS trying 1 antenna won't cut it. I tried about 6. Till I got the right one for us.


----------



## David-the-dtv-ma

Quote:

Originally Posted by *TitusTroy* 
I would love to cut the cord but unfortunately I've become addicted to certain shows on HBO, AMC and a few other non OTA channels...you can pay for cable and still donate to charity so one doesn't preclude the other


OT: 1000th post!...ding!...what do I win?


If you paid for tv cable & did not have any money left over to send to Charity thus You can not pay to donate. Then one does preclude the other.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20345073
> 
> 
> "SAP can also refer to descriptive programming for the blind."
> 
> 
> It can also refer to an idiot who posts here!



You mean me ?


----------



## TitusTroy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20377144
> 
> 
> You might want to look at this thread first. This person RATED many antennas. He put it in an easy Excel format. This will help you choose.
> 
> 
> The right antenna for you does not always mean it is the best for someone else.
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779
> 
> 
> How far is she from the Empire State Building?
> 
> 
> You can use www.tvfool.com
> 
> 
> to let you pulg in her address and it will tell you how far and what direction the Channels are from you. This will help you aim the antenna.
> 
> 
> YES, You have a TV like mine with both tuners. So all you need is a good antenna. I find the Boxes have a better tuner (more Sensitive) then TV turners.
> 
> 
> It all depends where you antenna is and how far from the TV. Also are you putting it outside or inside? If you have a cable that is longer then 25 to 100 feet (could be wrong about 25, could be 50) Anyway a NON amp antenna with a ADD on PRE amp that you buy separate would be the best choice. So I hear,
> 
> 
> We use a Terk-55 and love it. One other here tried it and it did a bad job for them. So what works for others does not mean it will for you.
> 
> 
> This is more of an art form then science. imo
> 
> 
> GLTY
> 
> 
> PS trying 1 antenna won't cut it. I tried about 6. Till I got the right one for us.



thanks for the info...will try the TERK and hopefully that will work...she lives in the Village area which is a good distance from the Empire State Building


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20383392
> 
> 
> You mean me ?



no he means me, he has a thing for non native new yawkers, lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TitusTroy* /forum/post/20383942
> 
> 
> thanks for the info...will try the TERK and hopefully that will work...she lives in the Village area which is a good distance from the Empire State Building



I personally like the terk-55 and dislike the Terk HDTV but many like it. It is narrow beam which means it has to be pointed at the area you want. Not all stations are on Empire state building. So you can miss some stations. I would buy 2 to 3 antennas on the list and return the ones that do not work well


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20385685
> 
> 
> I personally like the terk-55 and dislike the Terk HDTV but many like it. It is narrow beam which means it has to be pointed at the area you want. Not all stations are on Empire state building. So you can miss some stations. I would buy 2 to 3 antennas on the list and return the ones that do not work well



kb21 your preference for tv 55 is unjustifiable, most of members on this forum are agreement that antenna is over-hyped. it has no real gain, its just a dipole and not a good one at that. is overpriced to say the least, ( $70 plus) , and its built in amplifier (8db) is a joke, and is not needed in urban environment. If you really want a no nonsense antenna that is proven to be top rated, and the one best for indoor or outdoor use, you can't go wrong with a db4 from antenna direct. I don't work for that company but I know it simply works. is also half the price, of a turk. there is no fussing with trying aiming or adjusting, just aim the antenna towards the tv transmitter, thats all thats needed, it has more than enough gain, (11db gain) for a superb tv reception. enough said. I just read youre trying to receive tv reception from manhattan, thats another situation buy a set if rabbitears (


----------



## nycdigital09

anyone else receiving a new channel, *channel 12* is a copy of pax tv.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone else receiving a new channel, channel 12 is a copy of pax tv.



Pax tv no longer exists


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20391082
> 
> 
> Pax tv no longer exists



What do you mean? Is 31 off the air?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean? Is 31 off the air?



Ion 31 is still on the air. Pax tv is long gone.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20391801
> 
> 
> Ion 31 is still on the air. Pax tv is long gone.



are you picking up ion on ch12 or is it tropo thats what i mean


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20391801
> 
> 
> Ion 31 is still on the air. Pax tv is long gone.



thank you. I wasn't home when I wrote that so I couldn't check. PAX didn't sound right to me but I just couldn't remember ION.


If you never caught them when they first were shown, Without a Trace and Criminal Minds are good shows, however I wish they would rotate in some different show. They have gone thru all their episodes pretty quick showing 3 and 4 of each a day.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/20392096
> 
> 
> thank you. I wasn't home when I wrote that so I couldn't check. PAX didn't sound right to me but I just couldn't remember ION.
> 
> 
> If you never caught them when they first were shown, Without a Trace and Criminal Minds are good shows, however I wish they would rotate in some different show. They have gone thru all their episodes pretty quick showing 3 and 4 of each a day.



good


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20389330
> 
> 
> kb21 your preference for tv 55 is unjustifiable, most of members on this forum are agreement that antenna is over-hyped. it has no real gain, its just a dipole and not a good one at that. is overpriced to say the least, ( $70 plus) , and its built in amplifier (8db) is a joke, and is not needed in urban environment. If you really want a no nonsense antenna that is proven to be top rated, and the one best for indoor or outdoor use, you can't go wrong with a db4 from antenna direct. I don't work for that company but I know it simply works. is also half the price, of a turk. there is no fussing with trying aiming or adjusting, just aim the antenna towards the tv transmitter, thats all thats needed, it has more than enough gain, (11db gain) for a superb tv reception. enough said. I just read youre trying to receive tv reception from manhattan, thats another situation buy a set if rabbitears (
> 
> 
> I posted what works for me. You can not say that it doesn't. I heard not good reviews of the TERK HDTV. You guys love it though. The terk -55 is not unjustified for me. It worked just as well as the Clearstream c2 which is similar to the DB2.
> 
> 
> How the heck do you want someone to fit a BIG antenna like a a db4 from antenna direct? It is TOO BIG for an apartment. imo
> 
> 
> In my area and my apartment the terk -55 worked best for me. We get 56 channels including subs. I added my comments to say others do not like it.
> 
> 
> You guys sometimes act like you are GODs of antennas. Although you have great expertise. I have real world experience and have something to add and share to the help of this person.
> 
> 
> As I told that poster. They need to get 3 different antennas and try them. Return the ones that do not work well.
> 
> 
> You have no idea what will work for someone in there area and apartment.
> 
> 
> Everyone has different results. What works for me or you. Might not work for that poster.
> 
> 
> For you to tell someone not to try everything available. Is not the right way to go imo
> 
> 
> with all respect,


----------



## LenL

Well said.


I would add that most of antenna reception is about location, location, location and not the antenna. If you are in a decent location many antennas will work and if you are in a bad location you will need to hunt to find the right one....and if you are in a really bad location OTA may never work.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20392951
> 
> 
> Well said.
> 
> 
> I would add that most of antenna reception is about location, location, location and not the antenna. If you are in a decent location many antennas will work and if you are in a bad location you will need to hunt to find the right one....and if you are in a really bad location OTA may never work.



no probs here, you got your opinion.. i just want to add I'm not antenna guru or a god







do I try to act as one if thats your perception then, thats you. what i'm trying to get across is that is you don't need to try 4 or 5 antennas for someone who lives in manhattan, we are not in kansas you know. I'm well aware of severe multipath can hamper your reception but your taking this situation to an *extreme to say the least*. yes i agree everyones reception situation is different. for example I have a relative that lives on the upper west side she lives in 6 story building her apt windows face west towards new jersey she manages to get good reception, with a db2 even though its facing the wrong way. another thing, there is no way your going to need an amplfier (unless you want to split the signal) if you live manhattan. thats all I'm trying to say. if you agree fine, every has their opinion thats great. also, but the consumer should not be put off or troubled that ota reception is very expensive.. because is not, he or she can built a do it yourself antenna, that won't cost more than a few dollars and have better reception than me and you.










no one has answered my question yet, is anyone else seeing a ch12 ota is a repeat of ion television, thk U


----------



## NervousCat

Fewer TVs in the US. This article explains why.

http://www.slashgear.com/less-tvs-in...rnet-04149942/ 


No mention of people switching to OTA anywhere in the article.


----------



## LenL

I read the article and here is my criticism of this writer:


1. She claims to NOT have cable when she lies to us and DOES have cable. Perhaps she does not use it for TV viewing but she has it for computer ONLINE viewing and downloading ...yes? To me, if you say you don't have cable then you don't have online or phone service either from Comcast, Cablevision or whatever provider. She chooses to NOT pay for TV service and never mentioned trying to get OTA. Why? Because she is possibly not too savy afterall about what is going on.


2. How would she explain the tremendous amount of TV's being sold in this country? Never really got into the sales of TV.


3. Never explained the movement of viewers to OTA.


----------



## dvdchance

A few weeks ago my DTVPAL autoscanned and added this channel as 45.1. It comes in very shaky so it is mostly unwatchable. Today I scanned for channels and it added this station as 70.1. Am I getting a lock on a translator signal or is this a DTVPAL anomaly?


Where is this station actually broadcast from anyway? I'm in Middlesex County, 07008, so I'm probably out of it's usual range.


----------



## LenL

It's just atmospherics (troposphere) that change in our area. There is a website ( http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html ) dedicated to providing the impact of the atmospheric changes on reception of signals.


Not only will your PALDVR pick up channels that are sketchy from time to time, your TV tuner will do the same....at least mine do. I just go in and delete them when it happens.


If you follow this forum you will hear when there are NEW channels on the air that are viewable.


----------



## SnellKrell

45.1 emanates from atop the Trump World Tower, First Avenue, between 47th and 48th Streets in Manhattan.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20397795
> 
> 
> It's just atmospherics (troposphere) that change in our area. There is a website ( http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html ) dedicated to providing the impact of the atmospheric changes on reception of signals.
> 
> 
> Not only will your PALDVR pick up channels that are sketchy from time to time, your TV tuner will do the same....at least mine do. I just go in and delete them when it happens.
> 
> 
> If you follow this forum you will hear when there are NEW channels on the air that are viewable.



Thanks for the reply. I've followed this thread for some time and agree it is a great source of info on new channels.


I've looked at that dxinfocentre.com before site and have never found it in the least bit useful. Has it been for you?


And I don't think it's tropo regarding WLNY TV 10 / 55. Usually tropo lasts only a few hours, this station has been constantly receivable to me for a few weeks now, just will break up frequently.


----------



## yobiworld

Any NEW CHANNELS COMING ???


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/20397885
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I've followed this thread for some time and agree it is a great source of info on new channels.
> 
> 
> I've looked at that dxinfocentre.com before site and have never found it in the least bit useful. Has it been for you?
> 
> 
> And I don't think it's tropo regarding WLNY TV 10 / 55. Usually tropo lasts only a few hours, this station has been constantly receivable to me for a few weeks now, just will break up frequently.



No, it has not been relevant at all for me. Others on this forum swear by it though.


AS for WLNY I have picked it up from time to time but like you it has been unwatchable and then unreceiveable completely. So I just delete it when it gets added.


----------



## supergriff




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20400639
> 
> 
> No, it has not been relevant at all for me. Others on this forum swear by it though.
> 
> 
> AS for WLNY I have picked it up from time to time but like you it has been unwatchable and then unreceiveable completely. So I just delete it when it gets added.



Len, I live in the same town as you and have the same issue with this channel. Turns out there is a low power repeater of this channel near Villa Walsh off Western ave in Morristown. WLIG-LD. You may be able to get it if you rotate your antenna in that direction. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WLIG-LD


----------



## Aero 1

 http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/120176 



> Quote:
> *VHF DTV Broadcasters Fees Increased in FCC Proposal*
> 
> 
> by Doug Lung
> 
> 
> Tuesday the FCC released a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (FCC 11-68) outlining proposed 2011 regulatory fees.
> 
> 
> In the 2011 fee schedule, the FCC maintained its practice of charging full-service TV stations on VHF channels significantly more than TV stations on UHF channels. (For example, a commercial TV station on a VHF channel in the top 10 markets would pay $84,625 compared with only $34,650 for a UHF channel in the same market. Last year a top-10 market commercial VHF station paid $81,550 and the UHF station in the same market was assessed $32,275.)
> 
> 
> The FCC did not address the disparity between UHF and VHF fees in the 2011 NPRM.
> 
> 
> Last year, even though the issue was not raised in the 2010 NPRM the FCC received comments about it and addressed them in the Report and Order setting the 2010 fees. The FCC noted that if it kept the VHF category separate and apportioned the cost among a smaller number of VHF licensees, their fees would have significantly increased.
> 
> 
> In 2010 a number of commenters urged the FCC to either combine all VHF and UHF full-service TV stations into one fee category or establish a three-tiered fee system for full service TV stations. The FCC rejected this approach, noting this would have significantly increased the fees paid by UHF stations.
> 
> 
> In the end the FCC said that "we use the VHF fee amount in the proposed FY 2010 NPRM as a starting point in calculating the final FY 2010 VHF regulatory fee rate. Then, in order to calculate the VHF and UHF FY 2010 regulatory fees, we move the number of 'shifting' units (units of the stations that changed channels from VHF to UHF) and their corresponding dollar amounts from the VHF fee category by market size to the UHF fee category within the same market size."
> 
> 
> The Commission explained that within each UHF fee categorized by market size, the projected revenue amount "is increased along with the number of units in that fee category." It continued by stating that "the resulting larger projected revenue amount and the higher number of units" was then used as the basis for calculation of UHF fee categories based on market size.
> 
> 
> I suspect there will be more comments on the disparity in VHF and UHF regulatory fees filed in this NPRM, and that when the final Report and Order on 2011 fees is adopted the amounts may be different than those in the NPRM.
> 
> 
> Proposed UHF TV regulatory fees are:
> 
> • $32,950 (DMA 11-25)
> 
> • $20,950 (DMA 26-50)
> 
> • $12,325 (DMA 51-100)
> 
> • $3,275 (DMA 100 and above)
> 
> 
> Proposed fees for VHF TV stations outside of the top 10 markets are:
> 
> • $68,175 (DMA 11-25)
> 
> • $40,475 (DMA 26-50)
> 
> • $22,750 (DMA 51-100)
> 
> • $6,100 (DMA 100 and above)
> 
> 
> When compared with fees assessed in 2010, proposed VHF fees in markets below the top 25 dropped. The proposed UHF fees are greater in all markets, possibly as a result of the shifts the FCC discussed in the 2010 Regulatory Fee Report and Order.
> 
> 
> Other fee categories that may be of interest to broadcasters are:
> 
> • Broadcast auxiliaries ($10)
> 
> • Low power TV, Class A and, translator and booster stations ($395)
> 
> • Satellite earth stations with uplinking capability ($245)
> 
> 
> Broadcast auxiliary fees are unchanged from 2010, but low-power TV, Class A, translator and booster station fees dropped by $20. Earth station (uplink) fees increased by $5 from 2010.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/20399680
> 
> 
> Any NEW CHANNELS COMING ???



YES 2.2 (3rd quarter of this year)
*

EXCLUSIVE: CBS to Launch Digital Channels

Set to debut in New York and Los Angeles in third quarter

By Michael Malone -- Broadcasting & Cable, 3/14/2011 12:01:00 AM

CBS will soon announce the rollout of its first digital subchannels, which are slated to launch in New York and Los Angeles in the third quarter. Content will be comprised of local news from the various TV and sports/ news radio stations in a given market, likely supplemented by CBS' deep vault of programming from company properties including CNET.


While stations' ventures onto the digital tier have been lightly watched, and sparsely sponsored, CBS Corp. President/CEO Leslie Moonves suggests the company's programming assets and unique approach will make much more of an impact than the typical news and weather filler found on a station's .2.


The launch will bring CBS on par with the ABC (Live Well Network) and NBC (Nonstop) O&O groups. Anton Guitano, CBS Local Media Group COO, describes the as-yet untitled channels as natural extensions of the new local CBS Websites. Of course, CBS may be hard-pressed to make real revenue off the .2 venture, at least in the near term.*


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/20397634
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago my DTVPAL autoscanned and added this channel as 45.1. It comes in very shaky so it is mostly unwatchable. Today I scanned for channels and it added this station as 70.1. Am I getting a lock on a translator signal or is this a DTVPAL anomaly?
> 
> 
> Where is this station actually broadcast from anyway? I'm in Middlesex County, 07008, so I'm probably out of it's usual range.



We also have the DTVpal and DTVPAL DVR. If you read this thread. You can get more questions answered.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...99071&page=424 


Since the PAL and PAL DVR operate the same way. Except the DVR has more features.


Anyway When the PAL does not know or gets confused on what new channel just came in. For you it is 45.1 (Channel 55) It automatically puts it to the 70's. When more info comes in. It can move it to the right area. This can take week or more from our experience. A reboot by unplugging it should fix it for you or a reset to defaults will also 100% fix it. I would try unplugging first.


For more info go to the thread link I posted for you


GLTY


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supergriff* /forum/post/20401208
> 
> 
> Len, I live in the same town as you and have the same issue with this channel. Turns out there is a low power repeater of this channel near Villa Walsh off Western ave in Morristown. WLIG-LD. You may be able to get it if you rotate your antenna in that direction. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WLIG-LD



Thanks for the info but...if you were to come by my place and look at my antennas (2) you would see that I could not possibly rotate them. Also would not rotating them knock out the signals I get from the ESB? Not sure I want to jeopardise what I get now to pull in 55.1.


By the way you are welcome to stop by and see my setup and chat on OTA reception in our area.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mikepier* 
On the flipside, I can get WNJB -DT 52 miles away from where I am on Long Island. I have an old Radio Shack VU-75 on the chimney. I also get WNJN which is a mirror image.

It nice to get a different PBS station to watch different programming from WNET and WLIW.
mike can you get wnjt out trenton on rf 43. there is no doubt that a tv analog signal had a much stronger signal and larger coverage area than digital tv will ever have, regardless of what the new fcc coverage maps says. A 5000 kw or 5 megawatt signal on a uhf full power tv station, can carry analog signal for over 100 miles at night


----------



## keyboard21

Request for help


Can anyone help me locate the official website OR Email for channel 39 WNYN


I want to e-mail them. Having trouble locating the main website


thanks


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20414023
> 
> 
> Request for help
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me locate the official website OR Email for channel 39 WNYN
> 
> 
> I want to e-mail them. Having trouble locating the main website
> 
> 
> thanks



you should take a class on google 101, took me a second to find it










info @ wnyntv.com


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20414342
> 
> 
> you should take a class on google 101, took me a second to find it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> info @ wnyntv.com



TY I looked for 25 minutes. Did you happen to find the MAIN OFFICIAL website?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20414429
> 
> 
> TY I looked for 25 minutes. Did you happen to find the MAIN OFFICIAL website?


 http://www.furiamusicaltv.com/ 
http://www.wnyntv.com/ 


they both go to the same site


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20414458
> 
> http://www.furiamusicaltv.com/
> http://www.wnyntv.com/
> 
> 
> they both go to the same site



TY very much


----------



## keyboard21

One more question. Anyone know the CALL letters (station ID) for the channel 60.1, 60.2? It plays HSN 1 and HSN 2


I can not seem to find channel 60 on TVfool.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20414710
> 
> 
> One more question. Anyone know the CALL letters (station ID) for the channel 60.1, 60.2? It plays HSN 1 and HSN 2
> 
> 
> I can not seem to find channel 60 on TVfool.


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W41DO-D


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20414769
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W41DO-D



Again ty. I found it in tvfool. It shows the call letters and the channel 41 ,but not that it is Digital channel 60. That is BLANK. That is how I missed it.


I noticed it is -44.6 power dbm and that is why iT barley comes in. Where channel 39 is -42.2 power dbm. I guess -2.4 makes a HUGE difference. From 79 signal strength to barely 60 Which is the min for a lock with the DTVpal Dvr box. So when the signal fluctuates we lose it.


Would anyone (TRIP IN VA) know if channel W41DO-d (60) has plans to boot their power (signal)? Even a little boost would be enough for use to get a 100% lock. What is the curent power of channel 60?


My aunt likes to watch HSN. It keeps her up on the latest products.


Thanks so much for the info Aero1


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Would anyone (TRIP IN VA) know if channel W41DO-d (60) has plans to boot their power (signal)?



No.


W41DO has an extremely directional antenna pattern, probably designed to cover cable and satellite system head-ends without regard to OTA reception for the general public. Unless you're in one of their major signal lobes, reception will be more difficult.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hi Everybody!









After over a year of being a casual lurker, I have now registered on AVS Forum.


I look forward to participating in many discussions on this forum, especially on New York OTA as I live in Bergen County, New Jersey.


I believe Free OTA Broadcast Television must be preserved as it serves to provide entertainment and news in its present form, and as technology improves it will serve in other vital roles as well.


Again, I am happy to join the AVS community.


----------



## nycdigital09

welcome giacome, how is your ota reception in bergen county.


----------



## AloEuro

12-1 is ION 31,

31 ion gives good solid signal

12-1 0-15, 0-15, good to delete


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20431667
> 
> 
> 12-1 is ION 31,
> 
> 31 ion gives good solid signal
> 
> 12-1 0-15, 0-15, good to delete



not really, I find 12.1 stronger for me than 31


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20432327
> 
> 
> not really, I find 12.1 stronger for me than 31



What is 12.1? Is this something new?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20418813
> 
> 
> welcome giacome, how is your ota reception in bergen county.



Thank you, nycdigital09! I have an Antenna which is quite large, but it is situated in the Attic because Roof-top installation would be challenging. Reception is generally good, but has worsened with the fuller trees. I am in the Northern Valley, so my reception is further compromised on a permanent basis. Definitely not a good place to be when you enjoy OTA TV and Radio AND enjoy DXing as a hobby.


I presently receive all of the full-power New York stations along with some of the Low Power ones.


I am contemplating replacing my existing six year old 50' run of RG-59 coaxial cable with a new 25' run of RG-6 coaxial cable. There are quite a few fringe stations I am receiving a trace signal from. I am hoping this would be enough to push those signals to decode.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20432343
> 
> 
> What is 12.1? Is this something new?



Channel 12 is a new translator station that signed-on about two weeks ago. Call-sign is WPXU-LD Amityville. It relays WPXN-TV New York. Programming: 12.1 ION, 12.2 qubo, 12.3 ION Life. It replaces the analog translator which was taken silent quite a long time ago after being displaced from UHF Channel 38.


At my location, I can only occasionally receive a trace of signal which fails to decode. As such, I cannot confirm PSIP data, but am guessing it matches that of WPXN-TV Channel 31.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> I am contemplating replacing my existing six year old 50' run of RG-59 coaxial cable with a new 25' run of RG-6 coaxial cable. There are quite a few fringe stations I am receiving a trace signal from. I am hoping this would be enough to push those signals to decode.
> 
> Giacomo Siffredi is offline Report Post



Yes, It should make a difference of a 1-2 decibels signal strength using a good quality of rg6 cable

feel free to ask any question that may arise, but you sound alot like a wise chap


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20434944
> 
> 
> Yes, It should make a difference of a 1-2 decibels signal strength using a good quality of rg6 cable.



I was astonished to see how much difference a _quality_ brand of RG-6 made over a no-name brand (from a home supply store). I replaced a 50-foot length of no-name RG-6 coax with the same length of Monoprice's RG-6 quad shield.


The gains on the VHF spectrum were minimal. But on the UHF band, the gain increase with the Monoprice coax spanned from +2.5 dB on channel 14 to +5.4 dB on channel 51.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *re_nelson* /forum/post/20434962
> 
> 
> I was astonished to see how much difference a _quality_ brand of RG-6 made over a no-name brand (from a home supply store). I replaced a 50-foot length of no-name RG-6 coax with the same length of Monoprice's RG-6 quad shield.
> 
> 
> The gains on the VHF spectrum were minimal. But on the UHF band, the gain increase with the Monoprice coax spanned from +2.5 dB on channel 14 to +5.4 dB on channel 51.



Would anyone know if this TERK Rg6 cable is the same quality as the Monoprice QUAD shield?
http://www.terk.com/#/complete_produ...%80%99_lengths 



I have the Terk ,but if the monoprice is much better I would switch. I do not know if the description of double braided means that it is 2 shiled and not quad shield.


the terk is HD rated. Whatever that means.


Anyone know? thanks


----------



## jmsnyc

While we are looking at cables, this one is better price with shipping if you have prime or combine it with other stuff to hit $25


what do you think?
http://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-RG6-Qua...5403411&sr=8-3


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While we are looking at cables, this one is better price with shipping if you have prime or combine it with other stuff to hit $25
> 
> 
> what do you think?
> http://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-RG6-Qua...5403411&sr=8-3



use monoprice.com


----------



## kickass69

Was reception better this morning than the usual? For the first time ever I was able to receive WPIX at 50-60% signal with my RCA ANT525 rabbit ears indoor antenna and I'm 35 as the crow flies miles out from the ESB. Even Fox (Channel 44) for me had been a huge hassle this whole time but now it's also around 50%. The only ones I wasn't able to get was WFME, WRNN and neither NJN channel (Channel 51 and 8). Also an amazing catch was getting KYW out of Philly on Channel 26. Was there tropo going on?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/20437250
> 
> 
> Was reception better this morning than the usual? For the first time ever I was able to receive WPIX at 50-60% signal with my RCA ANT525 rabbit ears indoor antenna and I'm 35 as the crow flies miles out from the ESB. Even Fox (Channel 44) for me had been a huge hassle this whole time but now it's also around 50%. The only ones I wasn't able to get was WFME, WRNN and neither NJN channel (Channel 51 and 8). Also an amazing catch was getting KYW out of Philly on Channel 26. Was there tropo going on?



your answer is right here http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tr_map/archive/7eam.jpg 


this afternoon my zenith 900 stb briefly decoded wnjn 50 montclair whipee dooo


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20434829
> 
> 
> Channel 12 is a new translator station that signed-on about two weeks ago. Call-sign is WPXU-LD Amityville. It relays WPXN-TV New York. Programming: 12.1 ION, 12.2 qubo, 12.3 ION Life. It replaces the analog translator which was taken silent quite a long time ago after being displaced from UHF Channel 38.
> 
> 
> At my location, I can only occasionally receive a trace of signal which fails to decode. As such, I cannot confirm PSIP data, but am guessing it matches that of WPXN-TV Channel 31.



Interesting, I'm not far from Amityville, I'm actually west of it. I can't get 12.1, my antenna is facing the opposite direction towards ESB. I get 31.1 pretty good anyway.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20441954
> 
> 
> Interesting, I'm not far from Amityville, I'm actually west of it. I can't get 12.1, my antenna is facing the opposite direction towards ESB. I get 31.1 pretty good anyway.



Hey Mike,


WPXU-LD is transmitting from 731 Lexington Ave., Manhattan, NY. (a/k/a) the "Bloomberg Tower" with a directional 0.3 kW signal.


It is likely that impaired reception is due to its directional low power signal and its RF dial position (12) being sandwiched between full powered WPIX New York (11) and WNET Newark (13). A similar situation exists with WNYN-LD. Perhaps reorienting the antenna would improve the chances of reception, but if there is satisfactory reception of WPXN-TV (31), that may not be worth the risk of losing other stations which is a real possibility during any such readjustment.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20434944
> 
> 
> Yes, It should make a difference of a 1-2 decibels signal strength using a good quality of rg6 cable
> 
> feel free to ask any question that may arise, but you sound alot like a wise chap



Thank you, nycdigital09! I have been interested in Broadcast TV and Radio since I could first speak complete sentences, so I've learned a few things during the past 25+ years







However, there is always a new thing I probably don't know and could learn from others who are similarly engaged in this awesome venture.


----------



## avguy_13

My mom has lost some of the single digit channels from her HDTV receiver recently. It seems that 2,4,5,7,9 have mysteriously vanished from the HDTV receiver. It has been functioning perfectly since the digital switchover back in June. Antenna seems to be fine. Any thoughts?


Thanks


----------



## nycdigital09

I use an outdoor antenna, all channels are coming great here. the only thing I can think of is that tuner is having issues, try hooking your antenna directly to your tv bypassing any other dvr or cable boxes. also try rescanning for channels again, !!


----------



## LenL

Sounds like a connection got loose between the various components. Just check every connection for either a break, loose, or unconnected. I suspect something got pulled out either due to cleaning, weather, moving furniture or components.


----------



## NervousCat

Here's an interesting story I found about an antenna entrepreneur.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05/...s-tv-free.html


----------



## KML-224

That sounds like a great idea, which begs the obvious question...does it work? I've never tried it myself. Here in greater Hartford, something with an omnidirectional pattern is key, with transmitters in Avon (3, 18), Hamden (8, 59), Farmington (20, 24, 30, 61), Montville (26) and Bozrah (53). WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8 of New Haven is the only one transmitting on the VHF band now (channel 10). The last time I tried an indoor antenna, I used an RCA "bat wing" antenna, which Walmart sold for about $15. I rested it at the top of my south-facing second floor window. As expected the reception of WTNH-TV varied, but the rest were decent, with the Farmington stations being my best ones, since I'm no more than 5 miles from the Rattlesnake Mountain site.


To make this relate to the New York City DMA...I do not get any signal from either channel 43 (???) or 49 (PBS) from Bridgeport. However, since channel 49 is the same thing as channel 24 of Hartford and channel 53 of Norwich, it really isn't an issue.


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *NervousCat* 
Here's an interesting story I found about an antenna entrepreneur.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05/...s-tv-free.html
The article does not really say if this weird looking small antenna works?


The only people I believe would be from this forum. Someone should get it and try it lol TRIP IN VA? lol


----------



## yobiworld

Any new channels coming???


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/20457928
> 
> 
> Any new channels coming???



Yes 2.2 a sub of CBS. 3rd quarter of this year

*CBS is planning its first digital subchannels, offering sports, news and programming from the network's properties. The first two offerings are projected for the third quarter in New York and Los Angeles in a bid to make more of an impact in digital broadcasting than sparse local offerings have made so far.*


----------



## StudioTech

How many times in a month is this question going to be asked and this same answer going to be given?


----------



## jpru34

Both these channels have been unusually unreliable for me the past few days. I am guessing it has something to do with the persistent wet weather.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20458242
> 
> 
> How many times in a month is this question going to be asked and this same answer going to be given?



Woke up on wrong side of bed? Some people do not read the back pages. As far as the same answer. Until Trip in VA says something else is coming. The only near future channel is 2.2


So I do not mind in telling them again. If you really mind reading it again. The block feature works well.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/20458521
> 
> 
> Both these channels have been unusually unreliable for me the past few days. I am guessing it has something to do with the persistent wet weather.



It's probably local on your side. They have been rock solid here, even during the rain.


----------



## LenL

Someone in an earlier post mentioned this antenna which is advertised on this website.


If anyone in the local OTA area has one and is using it let us know how your OTA reception is doing.


Also I found a website discussing it and even giving some hints on how to build something very close to the MOHU which some of you might want to try.


If TRIP is reading this he might want to build one and test it out. Not sure it would be anything but a good indoor antenna for those of you close to the ESB etc.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=138226


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20463856
> 
> 
> Someone in an earlier post mentioned this antenna which is advertised on this website.
> 
> 
> If anyone in the local OTA area has one and is using it let us know how your OTA reception is doing.
> 
> 
> Also I found a website discussing it and even giving some hints on how to build something very close to the MOHU which some of you might want to try.
> 
> 
> If TRIP is reading this he might want to build one and test it out. Not sure it would be anything but a good indoor antenna for those of you close to the ESB etc.
> 
> http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=138226



its allready been tried by some forum users here do a search on this site youll see lots of people think that is subpar antenna


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20465877
> 
> 
> its allready been tried by some forum users here do a search on this site youll see lots of people think that is subpar antenna



I figured it was a waste of time and effort and MONEY thanks


----------



## nycdigital09

most of these antennas don't perform like their billed they are really just for aesthetics. antennas need to have some size to work right, law of physics.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20465877
> 
> 
> its allready been tried by some forum users here do a search on this site youll see lots of people think that is subpar antenna



I did a serach on this site (NY OTA) and found nothing. My post was asking if anyone on the NY OTA forum has tried it.


----------



## R.F. Burns

I moved my attic antenna a few degrees today and now I get a solid signal on daystar/RetroTV. I'm about 25 miles north of midtown Manhattan. Makes me wish I put a rotor up there.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* 
I moved my attic antenna a few degrees today and now I get a solid signal on daystar/RetroTV. I'm about 25 miles north of midtown Manhattan. Makes me wish I put a rotor up there.
coincedence, I put up a rotor, last week and raised the antenna height another 5 feet higher, I'm picking up a stronger signal. previously I could not receive wnjn 51 signal from little falls,nj. now i can get their signal, when i swirl the antenna retro tv and tuff tv come in. additionally I can receive wtnh, wedw from new haven CT.



Len you need to a search on top of site. I got some hits when i search for "mohu leaf antenna"


----------



## KML-224

As for New Haven, are you getting WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59? [actual channel 39]


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/20470513
> 
> 
> As for New Haven, are you getting WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59? [actual channel 39]



no I can't there is another ch39 on the same frequency, which interferes with ctx signal. wnyn is 30 dB stronger, so its out of the question. i use to receive that station when it was an analog signal. 59 use to carry bosoxs. I get ch 49 pbs at 90% I also get WTNH 8 abc affiliate out of CT.


----------



## Packeteers

I'm in NY zip 11375 and have not had ANY signal from WPIX ch11 since Thursday evening May 19th. I google around the web and nobody seems to be complaining about this. I rescan my converter box, and still none of the 11.0,11.2,11.3 channels show any signal strength. Can anyone explain this? are you getting WPIX by OTA in your 5-Boro location?


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/20457928
> 
> 
> Any new channels coming???





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20458242
> 
> 
> How many times in a month is this question going to be asked and this same answer going to be given?



Rabbitears is great

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php 


it is just difficult to highlight what is new, and what actually works in the ny area and especially since you have to expand each station one by one to see each sub



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Packeteers* /forum/post/20471816
> 
> 
> I'm in NY zip 11375 and have not had ANY signal from WPIX ch11 since Thursday evening May 19th. I google around the web and nobody seems to be complaining about this. I rescan my converter box, and still none of the 11.0,11.2,11.3 channels show any signal strength. Can anyone explain this? are you getting WPIX by OTA in your 5-Boro location?



I am in Manhattan and no issues with WPIX or its subs...


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/20472002
> 
> 
> It would be great if there was a simple wiki or spreadsheet for the NY Metro area with non technical stuff in it. I know there are a lot of Excel spreadsheets in this forum with a lot of technical channel info etc.... but is there something simple like:
> 
> 
> 2.1 CBS-HD
> 
> 4.1 NBC-HD
> 
> .
> 
> 11,1 WPIX-HD
> 
> 11.2 Estrella TV
> 
> 11.3 This TV
> 
> 11.4 Antenna TV
> 
> 
> etc...
> 
> 
> 
> Columns: virtual channel, channel, network, desc, location
> 
> anything more than that just confuses the average person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if there is one (which I am guessing there is), I apologize for not finding it in my searches...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am in Manhattan and no issues with WPIX or its subs...




Just click on New York City, NY - it's as good as it's going to get!!!!

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Packeteers* /forum/post/20471816
> 
> 
> I'm in NY zip 11375 and have not had ANY signal from WPIX ch11 since Thursday evening May 19th. I google around the web and nobody seems to be complaining about this. I rescan my converter box, and still none of the 11.0,11.2,11.3 channels show any signal strength. Can anyone explain this? are you getting WPIX by OTA in your 5-Boro location?



We are in the zip next to yours and NO PROBLEM with 11.1 and subs


----------



## jmsnyc

I have trouble receiving Retro and Tuff (42.3,4) through my Hauppauge card in WMC. I can get them through my artec digital to analog converter though if i move the antenna slightly i lose them


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/20457928
> 
> 
> Any new channels coming???



Univision (WXTV 41 - WFUT 68) will release 3 new channels, it was mentioned in their upfront.


Univision Deportes (Sports)

Univision Noticias (News)

Univision Telenovelas (TV Dramas, Soap Operas from Latin America)


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/20472566
> 
> 
> Univision (WXTV 41 - WFUT 68) will release 3 new channels, it was mentioned in their upfront.
> 
> 
> Univision Deportes (Sports)
> 
> Univision Noticias (News)
> 
> Univision Telenovelas (TV Dramas, Soap Operas from Latin America)



nothing there for me.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20441954
> 
> 
> Interesting, I'm not far from Amityville, I'm actually west of it. I can't get 12.1, my antenna is facing the opposite direction towards ESB. I get 31.1 pretty good anyway.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20442270
> 
> 
> Hey Mike,
> 
> 
> WPXU-LD is transmitting from 731 Lexington Ave., Manhattan, NY. (a/k/a) the "Bloomberg Tower" with a directional 0.3 kW signal.
> 
> 
> It is likely that impaired reception is due to its directional low power signal and its RF dial position (12) being sandwiched between full powered WPIX New York (11) and WNET Newark (13). A similar situation exists with WNYN-LD. Perhaps reorienting the antenna would improve the chances of reception, but if there is satisfactory reception of WPXN-TV (31), that may not be worth the risk of losing other stations which is a real possibility during any such readjustment.





No wonder I can't get 12.1 after looking at the transmitting coverage. I'm to the SouthWest and in the "dead" zone.

http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsanden...tion=0&erp=0.3


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20472637
> 
> 
> nothing there for me.



Some of their programming include English subtitles on Closed Caption 3, same goes for Telemundo's prime time.


----------



## Packeteers

thanks everyone who chimed in about WPIX ch11 status

after rescan'ning my box, during the favorites process

the channel previewed through, and after a few times

the box finally locked it into place for regular selection.

oh well, I guess these cheap boxes are a bit unstable.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/20473109
> 
> 
> Some of their programming include English subtitles on Closed Caption 3, same goes for Telemundo's prime time.



really, i tried close caption button, It doesn't seem to work i guess, I wish they left the two channels alone, their picture quality is extremely good, if they put subs on 41 and 47 is gonna diminish it so much, is gonna look wpix . why couldn't univision use channel 68 for those subs.










Packeteers can you tell us which set top box are using ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/20473109
> 
> 
> Some of their programming include English subtitles on Closed Caption 3, same goes for Telemundo's prime time.



I have a DTV (Dish) PAL DVR and a Dishpal plus. You can turn on Closed caption 3 on both boxes and NOTHING HAPPENS. I tried many times and maybe I am not watching the shows that are in English or the dam boxes do nt work on CC3


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20474086
> 
> 
> I have a DTV (Dish) PAL DVR and a Dishpal plus. You can turn on Closed caption 3 on both boxes and NOTHING HAPPENS. I tried many times and maybe I am not watching the shows that are in English or the dam boxes do nt work on CC3



I use the zenith dtt900 stb it has close caption, I tried on latino stations many times, so it has to be zenith ?










thanks there kommissar


----------



## StudioTech

I noticed over the weekend that WNBC 4.2 aka NY Nonstop is once again 16:9 widescreen. It was that way for a few days last year.


----------



## AloEuro

Ch.2 CBS is no more on ch.2 it goes to 33-1,

but Ch.7wABC over weekend was weak, no signal


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20474458
> 
> 
> I noticed over the weekend that WNBC 4.2 aka NY Nonstop is once again 16:9 widescreen. It was that way for a few days last year.




Yes, I remember that time last year. And they changed it back.


Lets hope they leave it this time.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Some of their programming include English subtitles on Closed Caption 3, same goes for Telemundo's prime time.



41 doesn't have cc3. My TiVo will display how many cc the channel has and it only shows 1 and 2. I tried to force 3 by disabling 1 and 2 and nothing shows up.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20475743
> 
> 
> 41 doesn't have cc3. My TiVo will display how many cc the channel has and it only shows 1 and 2. I tried to force 3 by disabling 1 and 2 and nothing shows up.



whatabout 47 or 68 do those channels have cc


possible new channel coming


----------



## nycdigital09

possible new channel coming soon

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/120174


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> whatabout 47 or 68 do those channels have cc
> 
> 
> possible new channel coming



They only have cc1 and cc2 and they both are in Spanish but 47 does have alternate Dolby digital audio tracks but only one works. The TiVo is saying that 47 is sending English DD which is actually in Spanish and the second DD channel is in French which is silent. 47 seems to sending a wrong, dead audio track.


----------



## ramonv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20477710
> 
> 
> whatabout 47 or 68 do those channels have cc



English Subtitles on Closed Caption 3

On Channel 68
*"La Pola"* (Colombian TV Series (RCN TV and SONY)) has *English subs*


On Channel 47
*"La Reina del Sur"* The Queen of the South (Made by Antena 3, RTI and Telemundo)(Mexican, Spanish, Colombian, Moroccan and American TV Series) *English subs*
*"Caso Cerrado"* Case Closed -Similar to JUDGE JUDY (American (Promofilm and Telemundo)) has *English subs*
*"Mi Corazon Insiste"* - My Heart Insists (American (Telemundo)) *English subs*
*"Los Herederos del Monte"* (Colombian (Telemundo RTI and TVNChile)*English Subs*
*"La Casa de Al Lado"* - The house Next Door (STARTS NEXT WEEK)

(American (Telemundo and TVNChile) *English Subs*


Some award shows will show the CC3 letters at the beginning of the show on channel 41 and 47.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20477858
> 
> 
> possible new channel coming soon
> 
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/120174



It is not coming Unless Trip in VA says so


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20478670
> 
> 
> It is not coming Unless Trip in VA says so



trip is untouchable he does have the midas touch


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20478703
> 
> 
> trip is untouchable he does have the midas touch



I heard VA TV is coming


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20483059
> 
> 
> I heard VA TV is coming



i read tha retro tv is launching a cartoon channel soon

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tv/classi...annel-pbj.html


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20484192
> 
> 
> i read tha retro tv is launching a cartoon channel soon
> 
> http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tv/classi...annel-pbj.html



I'm not sure when, if at all, Luken will launch PB&J. I am, however, quite certain WKOB-LD will not be carrying it. The station dropped Tuff TV, another Luken property, in favor of HOT TV, an independent channel featuring public domain classic series, cartoons, and movies.


My guess is that PB&J could also air as a Saturday morning or late night block on the RTV channel.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20486438
> 
> 
> I'm not sure when, if at all, Luken will launch PB&J. I am, however, quite certain WKOB-LD will not be carrying it. The station dropped Tuff TV, another Luken property, in favor of HOT TV, an independent channel featuring public domain classic series, cartoons, and movies.
> 
> 
> My guess is that PB&J could also air as a Saturday morning or late night block on the RTV channel.



presume that one of copies of main channel will be dropped for pb&j thats my guess wkob axed tuff tv was not profitable in this market. pb&J would be fresh air.


----------



## SubaruB4

I had to switch back to OTA since I dropped cable TV service.. I can get a bunch of channels more so then the last time I tried almost 2 years ago.. but the one channel I really can't get is WABC for some reason..


Did they reduce power or change or something?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/20488557
> 
> 
> I had to switch back to OTA since I dropped cable TV service.. I can get a bunch of channels more so then the last time I tried almost 2 years ago.. but the one channel I really can't get is WABC for some reason..
> 
> 
> Did they reduce power or change or something?



abc7 is on high VHF not UHF perhaps your antenna is not made for those frequencies.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/20488557
> 
> 
> I had to switch back to OTA since I dropped cable TV service.. I can get a bunch of channels more so then the last time I tried almost 2 years ago.. but the one channel I really can't get is WABC for some reason..
> 
> 
> Did they reduce power or change or something?



Hey SubaruB4,

Like nycdigital09 said, make sure your antenna is VHF & UHF. But, considering you can presumably receive WPIX (11) and WNET (13), you may already be okay there. Make sure all connectors are in good physical shape and all connections are tight.


I suggest trying to manually enter in channel 7. If your tuner has the ability to tune the actual RF channel, that's even better! But even if it doesn't, the fact that 7 is both RF and virtual with no stations transmitting competing PSIP information, this should be fine. If channel 7 appears, manually add/save it. If that doesn't work, try a complete re-scan.


Let us know how it works out for you.


----------



## mikepier

Any good tropo action going on today? The forecast says so.


Update: I checked last night and early this morning. Did not pick up anything new.


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
t- max my9 signal is not as strong as the other networks i think cos is lower on tv mast at esb. similar to what wfxt fox29 was lower at the mast at roxbury. have you noticed a signal disparity with fox5 (rf 44) signal and my9. fox5 sub is my9 feed, vice versa with my9, certainly you will signal strength difference between both stations. from what i been reading around the internet nyc master antenna is staying put at esb. t-max i envy your reception prowess. c u
nycdigital09: Regarding your post to me as above (on the Philly board) I do note that MY9 is very iffy as compared to the other NYC signals (that I get, anyway). As for Fox 5-1 and 9-2 (@ RF 44), I can't get them at all. I did manage to lock them in a couple of times but they are too weak to actually get any picture or audio.


I'm getting MY9 at mostly 83-84% on my VOOM box. That's basically watchable but with freezing and other issues and there are dropouts down to 0% for moments. I need a solid 84% for any kind of good watching. A truly solid 84 gives me pretty solid watching.


It sometimes jumps up to 85% and/or bounces back and forth between 84-85 and that's good reception for me.


I'd like to see it above 85% so that it doesn't drop below that much at all. The VOOM signal strength meter says that a station will lock at 81% (thus I can sometimes (but rarely) lock in RF 44) but ya need 85% to allow for weather fade.


I really only watch MY9 for the Yankee games, and 5-2 for the Fox games that aren't being carried by Philly Fox (29) cuz the Phillies are playing at the same time. That happened last Saturday and I could NOT get 5-2 after the 2nd inning. It never came back for me.


I may just cut these treetops that are in the way.


BTW, I have a ridge that physically blocks me from good NYC reception. Thus I watch Philly TV almost exclusively (thus my footer) even though it's much farther off. I have good line of sight to Roxborough (and Allentown / Bethlehem)


Also, does anybody have an email for a MY9 engineer? I'd love to have that. I used to have email correspondence (2 years ago?) with a ch 5 engineer and I'll have to see if that still works since 5 & 9 are related channels.


__________________

Sony KV-27HS420

SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))

RS Model VU-190 XR antenna

Getting 42 strong channels/subchannels out of the Roxborough farm / Trenton / Allentown (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)


----------



## nycdigital09

good deal of tropo last night, whdh pbs out boston came in, so did wcvb abc affiliate, best catch was a wuvw ch 46 or rf 18 from hartford ct had La Tv on 1 of their subs.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20484192
> 
> 
> i read tha retro tv is launching a cartoon channel soon
> 
> http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tv/classi...annel-pbj.html



Do we really need a Cartoon channel? Channel 13 does that already on a sub.


Plus how many of us get RTV? That Channel that is on is way too weak in NY


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20495830
> 
> 
> Do we really need a Cartoon channel? Channel 13 does that already on a sub.
> 
> 
> Plus how many of us get RTV? That Channel that is on is way too weak in NY



these are cartoons from when i was growing up casper, felix the cat and others, no one else shows these nostalgic shows. retrotv comes in for me. with uhf antenna i need to be 90 degrees or perpendicular to the signal to grab it. good luck kb21


RIP Jeff Conaway, Bobby, from taxi Kenickie, from grease


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20484192
> 
> 
> i read tha retro tv is launching a cartoon channel soon
> 
> http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tv/classi...annel-pbj.html



That would be cool. I love cartoons. 13 sub and ion sub are both aimed at toddlers.... we need stuff like the cartoon network shows... bugs bunny, superfriends etc...


Please post if it goes live.


----------



## Keith




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20495209
> 
> 
> good deal of tropo last night, whdh pbs out boston came in, so did wcvb abc affiliate, best catch was a wuvw ch 46 or rf 18 from hartford ct had La Tv on 1 of their subs.




Looking good tonight also !!


----------



## KML-224

The main PBS station from Boston is WGBH-TV channel 2. WHDH-TV is channel 7, their NBC affiliate. WUNI-TV (UNI) of Hartford should display as 18-1 and up. They use UHF channel 46 for their digital signal.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20495209
> 
> 
> good deal of tropo last night, whdh pbs out boston came in, so did wcvb abc affiliate, best catch was a wuvw ch 46 or rf 18 from hartford ct had La Tv on 1 of their subs.



This morning about 5:30 AM, I did a scan and picked up WBPH-D1 out of Bethlehem, PA, about 120-130 miles away, but could not lock a picture.


Hoping for better luck tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## OSUBuckly

Hey everybody,


I'm looking into dropping cable and going with an antenna/Roku box setup.


Can anyone recommend any particular antennas that I should be looking at? I live in an apartment building in Astoria, Queens, if that makes a difference.


Thanks!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OSUBuckly* /forum/post/20498024
> 
> 
> Hey everybody,
> 
> 
> I'm looking into dropping cable and going with an antenna/Roku box setup.
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend any particular antennas that I should be looking at? I live in an apartment building in Astoria, Queens, if that makes a difference.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Here is a Thread on this forum that reviews Anttenas that you can use Indoors.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1037779 


If you could fit the DB4 or the Clearstream c4. That might be the best, but they are big


The two antennas I tested from that list I posted are the Terk-55 and the Clearstream C2 Both gave me the Same results. So since I already owned the Terk -55 for 10 years prior. I stayed with that.


My apartment is too Small for a Db4 or Clearstream 4. Most here will tell you the Terk-55 is garbage, but We live in rego park and 7 miles from Empire State Building (Main source for ota) We get 55 channels including subs

So for all that say it is garbage. I laugh at you.


People will also tell you that the DB2 or DB4 is not made for VHS. I have been told by other posters who tried this antenna that Under 25 miles from ESB (TV source) It was no problem getting VHS channels. Further away caused a major problem.


1) http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/...-antennas.html 


2) http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEAQ8wIwAQ 


3) http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CFsQ8wIwAg 


MAKE SURE YOU GOOGLE Any Antenna you get. So you get the best price. The links I posted was only to show you the different antennas. Research on best price is up to you


Please use www.tvfool.com to find out how far you are from the channels and direction to point your antenna


Make sure you use HD ready Rg6 cable. From Antenna to TV or Box

Made a 5 point difference for me.


I also use the Dish DTVPAL DVR for OTA. Got it on firesale. Now discontinued. You can look at it on ebay or the Channelmaster company is now selling the same excat unit for $350 called the CM-7000 Or a better DVR for a high price is the Tivo for OTA also.


With antennas the bigger the better if you can fit it.


GLTY


----------



## nycdigital09

your in luck that indoor antenna should be sufficient 4 U. there is a cool indoor antenna that has very good reviews

Mohu Leaf Antenna http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Thin-Lea.../dp/B004QK7HI8 

let is know how it works out for U


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20499122
> 
> 
> your in luck that indoor antenna should be sufficient 4 U. there is a cool indoor antenna that has very good reviews
> 
> Mohu Leaf Antenna http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Thin-Lea.../dp/B004QK7HI8
> 
> let is know how it works out for U



You know what I think of that Antenna. It did not get great reviews, BUT as I always said. OTA is more of an art form and an antenna that works for me might not for you and visa versa.


So I would try many different ones. I would think that since the DB4, C4, DB2, and C2 are all small out door antennas. That they should work the best in theory. Of course the down side. THEY ARE BIG for an apartment.


----------



## OSUBuckly

Thank you for the help. That Leaf antenna seems to good to be true. Keyboard, did you post a review of it anywhere online? Since you also live in Queens, your opinion would be very helpful.


I'll post on that EV board also to try and get some more recommendations.


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *OSUBuckly* 
Thank you for the help. That Leaf antenna seems to good to be true. Keyboard, did you post a review of it anywhere online? Since you also live in Queens, your opinion would be very helpful.


I'll post on that EV board also to try and get some more recommendations.
No you mis-understood. I never USED The leaf. The reviews on the Leaf are very mixed. So be careful. The leaf seems more like a gimmick, but it might work for you. People call my Terk -55 a gimmick. Yet it got the same channels and signal strength as the small C2 outside antenna. You must try different antennas. What works for me might not for you.


I always treat people on here like my friends. So the advice I give my friends. Is I would try 2 to 4 antennas. Return the ones that do not work well. Either order online or go to a place like J&R.


I heard great things on the DB4 and Clearstream 4. They are considered small OUTSIDE antennas. Which can be used indoors. I talked to a poster on here quite a bit about a year ago. He got the DB4 and was about 30 miles from ESB and had no VHF reception problems.


I have gone through about 6 antennas in the past 20 years. It is all trial and error.


The last two that I used are the TERK 55 and Clearstream c2 (Smaller version of the C 4)


Many here would recommended the DB4 or C4 The clearstream is rated for VHS. But if you are in queens. I would not foresee a problem with either. Except the size of the antenna.


Can you please use the www.tvfool.com and tell us how far you are away from ESB. Channels 2, 4 5, 7 ect


We face Queens Blvd and have a direct site to ESB. We are 7 miles from it. North West direction


We get the following stations in clearly:


2.1

4.1 .2 .4

5.1 .2

7.1 .2 .3

9.1 .2

11.1 .2 .3 .4

13.1 .2 .3

17.1 .2 .4

24.1 .2 .3

25.1 .2

26.1

31.1 .2 .3

32.1

34.1

35.1

39.1 .2 .3 .4 .5

41.1 .2

45.1

47.1

60.1 .2 (Barely comes in) (not counted in total)

63.1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8

68.1 .2


52 channels including sub stations


Hope this helps


PS Remember to use RG6 HD ready Coax cable. Do not go cheap. Makes a difference in signal strength


----------



## KML-224

What exactly are _VHS_ channels? (LOL) Anyways, are some of the primary channels on your list low-power digital stations?


----------



## nycdigital09

keyboard im surprise you get tons of stations i dont get reliably channels like 39. 60 that has me thinking whats with the station that only show bars like 32 35 26 43 are these channels ever gonna show something worthwhile. could they just be there to take space and then be auctioned off to the highest bidders. sort of like web address, I could be wrong but isn't nyc running these channels. figures don't it. what a waste of channels when theire isn't many to be had.


ps keyboard i counted 54 stations on your list.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
that gives me thinking whats with the station that only show bars like 32 35 26 43 are these channels ever gonna show something worthwhile. could they just be there to take space and then be auctioned off to the highest bidders. sort of like web address, I could be wrong but isn't nyc running these channels. figures don't it. what a waste of channels when theire isn't many to be had.
Those are all owned by an independent for-profit company, Island Broadcasting Company, based in Roslyn, NY and whose owner is Richard Bogner.


The stations are as follows: (26) WRNN-LD New York, (32) WXNY-LD New York, (35) WNYX-LD New York, and (43) WNXY-LD New York. All of them transmit from 1 Court Square a/k/a the "Citicorp Building", Long Island City, Queens, New York.


Island also owns WNYZ-LP, presently transmitting in Analog over VHF Channel 6. That station usually plays black & white silent movies starring Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. This is to allow its generally assumed primary purpose to be fulfilled which is providing aural service to FM radios over 87.75 MHz.


Early in 2009, WNYZ began using an Axcera DT325B digital VHF transmitter with the Axciter/BET option. This effectively allowed Island to successfully transmit a single SD DTV channel while using a separate analog FM transmitter to broadcast a Stereo FM signal on 87.75 MHz, all within VHF Channel 6.


In 2009, all of these stations (except WRNN-LD which Island had not yet acquired) carried the Jared Whitham Channel 24/7, which was like low-budget independently produced comedy skits. During that time, WXNY-LP, WNYX-LP, and WNXY-LP were transmitting in Analog.


In 2010, the stations (except WNYZ-LP) converted to Digital and WRNN-LD was acquired. Soon afterward, all of the digital stations briefly carried religious programs and infomercials from Jacob Broadcasting under a presumed LMA. This only lasted several months. No actual programming except the SMPTE Test Patterns have aired over these channels this year at all.


Last week, Island Broadcasting filed an application for a Digital Flash Cut on Channel 6 for WNYZ.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20500309
> 
> 
> Those are all owned by an independent for-profit company, Island Broadcasting Company, based in Roslyn, NY and whose owner is Richard Bogner.
> 
> 
> The stations are as follows: (26) WRNN-LD New York, (32) WXNY-LD New York, (35) WNYX-LD New York, and (43) WNXY-LD New York. All of them transmit from 1 Court Square a/k/a the "Citicorp Building", Long Island City, Queens, New York.
> 
> 
> Island also owns WNYZ-LP, presently transmitting in Analog over VHF Channel 6. That station usually plays black & white silent movies starring Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. This is to allow its generally assumed primary purpose to be fulfilled which is providing aural service to FM radios over 87.75 MHz.
> 
> 
> Early in 2009, WNYZ began using an Axcera DT325B digital VHF transmitter with the Axciter/BET option. This effectively allowed Island to successfully transmit a single SD DTV channel while using a separate analog FM transmitter to broadcast a Stereo FM signal on 87.75 MHz, all within VHF Channel 6.
> 
> 
> In 2009, all of these stations (except WRNN-LD which Island had not yet acquired) carried the Jared Whitham Channel 24/7, which was like low-budget independently produced comedy skits. During that time, WXNY-LP, WNYX-LP, and WNXY-LP were transmitting in Analog.
> 
> 
> In 2010, the stations (except WNYZ-LP) converted to Digital and WRNN-LD was acquired. Soon afterward, all of the digital stations briefly carried religious programs and infomercials from Jacob Broadcasting under a presumed LMA. This only lasted several months. No actual programming except the SMPTE Test Patterns have aired over these channels this year at all.
> 
> 
> Last week, Island Broadcasting filed an application for a Digital Flash Cut on Channel 6 for WNYZ.



thxs for insight, I sure hope they do something with those channels. as everyone is aware the tv spectrum has been reduced to our chagrin


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KML-224* /forum/post/20499889
> 
> 
> What exactly are _VHS_ channels? (LOL) Anyways, are some of the primary channels on your list low-power digital stations?



It is a Mental TYPO. I keep doing it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.


I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF I will say VHF


LOL You knew what I meant though










The lowest is Channel 7 to 14 VHF The rest is UHF


----------



## nycdigital09

high vhf band is 7 thru 13 not 7 thru 14


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20504178
> 
> 
> vhf band is 7 thru 13 not 7 thru 14 kb start writing lol



Isn't VHF actually 2 thru 13?


When VHF was first allocated for TV it started at Ch 1, but that was withdrawn during WW2 for war use and never returned to TV use.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/20504193
> 
> 
> Isn't VHF actually 2 thru 13?
> 
> 
> When VHF was first allocated for TV it started at Ch 1, but that was withdrawn during WW2 for war use and never returned to TV use.



wiseguy


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/20504193
> 
> 
> Isn't VHF actually 2 thru 13?
> 
> 
> When VHF was first allocated for TV it started at Ch 1, but that was withdrawn during WW2 for war use and never returned to TV use.



14 is the start of UHF


You know funny thing. For us VHF was always the better channels in the Analog days.


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 you don't need rg6 quad shield is overkill, i use rg6u which is lot less bulkier and more bendable the only thing is that if you want good tv wire, make sure that the center conductor is pure copper, because copper is best conductor of electric signals, so i doesnt really matter if is quad shield, most cable come with shielding ei, double triple shielding. i use belden precision cable it cost a few more $$

but it has copper center core.










Originally Posted by keyboard21

14 is the start of UHF


You know funny thing. For us VHF was always the better channels in the Analog days.


I know that when I see analog picture it makes wonder what the hell took so long to implement digital television, You know HD was invented in early 80's by the Japanese and have been using HD for many years allready. we were left behind, mainly because of greed of the large corporations that want to bleed us dry.


----------



## SnellKrell

First of all, the Japanese MUSE system was analogue and second, it required 4 times the bandwidth of NTSC broadcasts.


This, later to be abandoned Japanese analogue system, was impractical and that's why in 1993 a coalition of "greedy large corporations that want to bleed us dry" along with various research centers and MIT created the basis

of our current ATSC standard.


I congratulate all of them - including "greedy" - AT&T, General Instrument

Corporation, Philips Consumer Electronics, Thomson and Zenith.


----------



## nycdigital09

well you have your view, but i think that we allow ourselves to be deceived and manipulated by greedy sobs i give you another one to run by, vcrs were still in use to mid 90's. when there was dvd technology in hand. they pretty much milked it for all is worth. thats why were still behind in internet speed and japan korea taiwan run circles around our technology. because of all red tape in this country. if youre so naive to not see whats happening they will just keep on shoving the same bs at us.


----------



## Aero 1

WKOB improving their signal?


Apparently they are or did improve their signal according to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00000857855880 


Anyone have any info on this? Did it happen? I would ask there, but you know I would get their boilerplate marketing answer. I'd love to get this station 15 miles west from NYC.


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Aero 1* 
WKOB improving their signal?


Apparently they are or did improve their signal according to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00000857855880 


Anyone have any info on this? Did it happen? I would ask there, but you know I would get their boilerplate marketing answer. I'd love to get this station 15 miles west from NYC.
What shows on that station? I forget? Infomercials?


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
kb21 you don't need rg6 quad shield is overkill, i use rg6u which is lot less bulkier and more bendable the only thing is that if you want good tv wire, make sure that the center conductor is pure copper, because copper is best conductor of electric signals, so i doesnt really matter if is quad shield, most cable come with shielding ei, double triple shielding. i use belden precision cable it cost a few more $$

but it has copper center core.










Originally Posted by keyboard21

14 is the start of UHF


You know funny thing. For us VHF was always the better channels in the Analog days.


I know that when I see analog picture it makes wonder what the hell took so long to implement digital television, You know HD was invented in early 80's by the Japanese and have been using HD for many years allready. we were left behind, mainly because of greed of the large corporations that want to bleed us dry.
I use TERK HD wire and it is not bulky. 15 foot cost me $10 or smething close to that


----------



## Aero 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21* 
What shows on that station? I forget? Infomercials?
Retro TV


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
well you have your view, but i think that we allow ourselves to be deceived and manipulated by greedy sobs i give you another one to run by, vcr were still in use to mid 90's. when there was dvd technology in the backburner. they pretty much milked it for all is worth. thats why were still behind in internet speed and japan korea taiwan run circles around our technology. because of all red tape in this country. if youre happy with being screwed then they love you back.
At times, I contemplate this also. I think how much good programming we had during the 1980s and how it would have been nice to view it as we can now.


But there were multiple factors that delayed Digital TV let alone a DTV standard.


1. Necessity: Many people were satisfied with ATSC OTA TV until Cable TV was introduced in the 1970s. For modest monthly fees, most Cable TV companies promised not only commercial-free niche programming, but ghost-free and snow-free carriage of local channels. A lot of people felt this was a very good deal and became subscribers. Hence, the need to improve the OTA signals became an afterthought.


2. Efficiency: As SnellKrell correctly pointed out, the first OTA high definition standard proposed was analog and inefficient. It would have required four 6 MHz TV channels to accommodate a full HD channel. It would take at least twenty years before we saw compression technology (such as MP3s) which would reduce the necessary bandwidth.


3. Spectrum: As more spectrum-driven devices have been released to the public, the need for additional spectrum has increased, thus there has been a push to open more spectrum that Television has occupied.


Now, I have to publicly state that I do not agree with the latest attempts by the fcc to push TV broadcasters off the upper-end of the UHF band. I feel broadcasters relinquished more than enough spectrum at the end of the 2009 DTV transition, and they need not relinquish even as much as 1 Mhz more. But there is no question that spectrum is viewed much differently today than it was 20 or 30 years ago.


Finally: Any new standard would have had to be extensively tested to make sure it would work under various circumstances in multiple differing environments. The signal must be able to work in the tundra atmosphere in Alaska to the desert-like dry heat of Arizona and all climates in between. It would have to work in rural farmlands, average suburbs, and robust cities. And even after all the testing, once implemented, there will always be room for improvement.


And remember: Compression was key. Originally, LaserDiscs were the size of vinyl LPs, and now DVDs are the same size as Compact Discs. Essentially, DTV and HDTV would not have been commercially viable were it not for a workable compression standard. ATSC established that.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Aero 1* 
WKOB improving their signal?


Apparently they are or did improve their signal according to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00000857855880 


Anyone have any info on this? Did it happen? I would ask there, but you know I would get their boilerplate marketing answer. I'd love to get this station 15 miles west from NYC.
Aero1, I have noticed a modest improvement to the WKOB-LD Channel 2 signal. I find it to be relatively reliable, although there are the few occasions when impulse noise will ravage it, but once it stops, the signal is fine again. I have read reports from several other viewers in New Jersey who report similar reliable reception. I would definitely try for it, but I strongly suggest using an attic or outdoor antenna and aim it towards Manhattan, specifically towards 845 United Nations Plaza (a/k/a Trump World Tower) which is at the intersection of 1st Ave. & E. 48th St.


WKOB-LD offers the following programming:

42.1 Daystar (Religious)

42.2 Daystar (Religious)

42.3 Retro Television Network (Classic TV series and cartoons)

42.4 HOT TV: History Of Television (Public Domain Classic TV series, cartoons, and movies)

42.5 WizeBuys (Infomercials)


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20506432
> 
> 
> Aero1, I have noticed a modest improvement to the WKOB-LD Channel 2 signal. I find it to be relatively reliable, although there are the few occasions when impulse noise will ravage it, but once it stops, the signal is fine again. I have read reports from several other viewers in New Jersey who report similar reliable reception. I would definitely try for it, but I strongly suggest using an attic or outdoor antenna and aim it towards Manhattan, specifically towards 845 United Nations Plaza (a/k/a Trump World Tower) which is at the intersection of 1st Ave. & E. 48th St.
> 
> 
> WKOB-LD offers the following programming:
> 
> 42.1 Daystar (Religious)
> 
> 42.2 Daystar (Religious)
> 
> 42.3 Retro Television Network (Classic TV series and cartoons)
> 
> 42.4 HOT TV: History Of Television (Public Domain Classic TV series, cartoons, and movies)
> 
> 42.5 WizeBuys (Infomercials)





I have a Antennas direct DB4 UHF and a Clearstream 5 VHF joined outside 30 feet up aimed correctly with line of site to NYC and I still don't get it.


----------



## re_nelson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20506489
> 
> 
> I have a Antennas direct DB4 UHF and a Clearstream 5 VHF joined outside 30 feet up aimed correctly with line of site to NYC and I still don't get it.



The C5 is for high-VHF.


----------



## Trip in VA

The C5 is for upper-VHF, not low-VHF stations like WKOB-LD on 2.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20506224
> 
> 
> Retro TV



Would be nice. We still do not get it. So not sure if change happened or not. I remember when it first came out. I e-mailed them the trouble that 90% of us are having in getting this station. They said they were working on it. Guess it was not a lie


----------



## Aero 1

Thanks guys, I know the c5 is for hi VHF, I was just wondering if anyone know how to decipher their Facebook posts, if they were moving to a higher channel.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20506624
> 
> 
> Thanks guys, I know the c5 is for hi VHF, I was just wondering if anyone know how to decipher their Facebook posts, if they were moving to a higher channel.



I know of a trick how to pick up wkob-lp with yagi uhf antenna, you need to point your antenna 90 degrees of axis. perpendicular to the signal like is looking to the right or left , *your antenna boom* will act like it was antenna cut out for low vhf, there are many reports that the 91xg picks up low vhf. it will work because your so close to the transmitter. I'm 3.8 miles from bloomberg bldg and i don't have line of sight to them. I'm totally blocked off by buildings and it still works. I have not tried with a bay antenna, but it may work










dxing last night, wfme ch66 the religious station came in for first time in digital. also wcct ch 20 wb station from hartford was duly noted.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20506590
> 
> 
> Would be nice. We still do not get it. So not sure if change happened or not. I remember when it first came out. I e-mailed them the trouble that 90% of us are having in getting this station. They said they were working on it. Guess it was not a lie



keyboard you might want to try my low vhf trick it might work with terk55 antenna


----------



## LenL

My CM4228 was having trouble getting a good signal for 2.1 since Nov. Now it is coming in 99-100. It will be good until November and go south again. I guess it is the leaves or atmospherics. However my homebuilt GH has not shown this kind of issue. So antenna design or location may also come into play.


Wondering if anyone else has seen any changes for 2.1.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20511862
> 
> 
> My CM4228 was having trouble getting a good signal for 2.1 since Nov. Now it is coming in 99-100. It will be good until November and go south again. I guess it is the leaves or atmospherics. However my homebuilt GH has not shown this kind of issue. So antenna design or location may also come into play.
> 
> 
> Wondering if anyone else has seen any changes for 2.1.



Interesting. Channel 2.1 has been pretty steady for me in Northern NJ for the last few months but Channel 5.1 (Fox) has been a little erratic as of late.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/20504193
> 
> 
> Isn't VHF actually 2 thru 13?
> 
> 
> When VHF was first allocated for TV it started at Ch 1, but that was withdrawn during WW2 for war use and never returned to TV use.



Channel 1 was the original FM broadcast band. It became the low VHF land mobile band. It's rarely used today, although there is a station licensed (WA2XMN) to operate wide band FM from Alpine,. N.J. but it is rarely on the air.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20505758
> 
> 
> WKOB improving their signal?
> 
> 
> Apparently they are or did improve their signal according to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00000857855880
> 
> 
> Anyone have any info on this? Did it happen? I would ask there, but you know I would get their boilerplate marketing answer. I'd love to get this station 15 miles west from NYC.



wkob-lp aka retrotv programming is pretty lame, I been watching some of their shows, there is nothing interesting in their lineup subpar to me anyway, I'm guessing that metv will be here sometime in fall, their lineup is a couple notches better.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20513267
> 
> 
> wkob-lp aka retrotv programming is pretty lame, I been watching some of their shows, there is nothing interesting in their lineup subpar to me anyway, I'm guessing that metv will be here sometime in fall, their lineup is a couple notches better.



who is going to carry metv?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20513793
> 
> 
> who is going to carry metv?



wnyx-lp 39 most likely but there could be agreement with 32 35 43 those stations could be online soon










have you been to their site http://metvnetwork.com/videos.php


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20513891
> 
> 
> wnyx-lp 39 most likely but there could be agreement with 32 35 43 those stations could be online soon



Unless I missed something, there is no evidence to support this assertion.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20509621
> 
> 
> keyboard you might want to try my low vhf trick it might work with terk55 antenna



The Terk55 is a LONG 5 foot Stick. How would I do that trick? Any tips is appreciated


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20506624
> 
> 
> Thanks guys, I know the c5 is for hi VHF, I was just wondering if anyone know how to decipher their Facebook posts, if they were moving to a higher channel.



Aero 1,


The fcc has once again frozen all new channel change requests due to their "mobile broadband" BS. It should be noted that the U.S. congress has given them no authority yet to conduct any incentive auctions.


WKOB-LD had filed for displacement in early 2010 to return to their last analog channel, UHF Channel 42. They based the request on the impulse noise and other problems associated with the VHF-Lo band. No action has been taken by the fcc so far.


Despite the reception problems with Channel 2, I don't believe moving to Channel 42 would be a good solution. They would likely have to use stringent mask filters to protect spurious emissions to two Low Powers on RF 41, and certainly Richard Bogner would insist on protection for his Low Power on RF 43. While more TV antennas could receive a Channel 42 operation, I think the signal would have to be highly directional thus reducing its present coverage area. Furthermore, Channel 2 has the unique positioning because there is no adjacent channel interference from any channel below it.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20514705
> 
> 
> Aero 1,
> 
> 
> The fcc has once again frozen all new channel change requests due to their "mobile broadband" BS. It should be noted that the U.S. congress has given them no authority yet to conduct any incentive auctions.
> 
> 
> WKOB-LD had filed for displacement in early 2010 to return to their last analog channel, UHF Channel 42. They based the request on the impulse noise and other problems associated with the VHF-Lo band. No action has been taken by the fcc so far.
> 
> 
> Despite the reception problems with Channel 2, I don't believe moving to Channel 42 would be a good solution. They would likely have to use stringent mask filters to protect spurious emissions to two Low Powers on RF 41, and certainly Richard Bogner would insist on protection for his Low Power on RF 43. While more TV antennas could receive a Channel 42 operation, I think the signal would have to be highly directional thus reducing its present coverage area. Furthermore, Channel 2 has the unique positioning because there is no adjacent channel interference from any channel below it.



interesting bit there, whatabout wsah on 42 don't they have any mobility, I can't pick up their signal on my stb when i input 42 it goes directly to wkob. I use to get their signal on rf 42. I'm pretty sure they're taking this litely.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20513943
> 
> 
> Unless I missed something, there is no evidence to support this assertion.
> 
> 
> Trip my assertion is that there is no space for metv so, I don't see any other way for them be in this dma, unless fox5 or my9 wants to rent some space
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20514189
> 
> 
> The Terk55 is a LONG 5 foot Stick. How would I do that trick? Any tips is appreciated



look at my earlier post # 14154


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20513891
> 
> 
> wnyx-lp 39 most likely but there could be agreement with 32 35 43 those stations could be online soon



There IS an LMA agreement for 32, 35, and 43, but it is NOT with Weigel.


It is a 24/7 LMA agreement with these folks: CMMB America LLC


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20514760
> 
> 
> There IS an LMA agreement for 32, 35, and 43, but it is NOT with Weigel.
> 
> 
> It is a 24/7 LMA agreement with these folks: CMMB America LLC



I google them find out what type of programs they broadcast at their other stations to get an idea of what their planning to air


curious is the station from edison, nj rf 23 one of their stations that they allocated ? .


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20507238
> 
> 
> I know of a trick how to pick up wkob-lp with yagi uhf antenna, you need to point your antenna 90 degrees of axis. perpendicular to the signal like is looking to the right or left , *your antenna boom* will act like it was antenna cut out for low vhf, there are many reports that the 91xg picks up low vhf. it will work because your so close to the transmitter. I'm 3.8 miles from bloomberg bldg and i don't have line of sight to them. I'm totally blocked off by buildings and it still works. I have not tried with a bay antenna, but it may work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dxing last night, wfme ch66 the religious station came in for first time in digital. also wcct ch 20 wb station from hartford was duly noted.



How can I point a stick 90 degrees of axis?

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CFoQ8gIwAg


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20515080
> 
> 
> How can I point a stick 90 degrees of axis?
> 
> http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CFoQ8gIwAg



I'm using a medium size uhf yagi (5 ft length) because the 91xg is just so directional, with the small yagi antenna gives me a larger area of coverage, (has larger sidelobes) than the 91xg so i don't have to be aiming as much for each station. the real plus is that I'm getting strong vhf signal with it, actually i can get wthn ch 8 and wkob ch 2 with this antenna.


keyboard, like i said try aiming your antenna the other direction facing north rather than west. keeping on eye on the signal meter, you might need to be close to a window. give a shot you got notten to lose man.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20519705
> 
> 
> I'm using a medium size uhf yagi (5 ft length) because the 91xg is just so directional, with the small yagi antenna gives me a larger area of coverage, (has larger sidelobes) than the 91xg so i don't have to be aiming as much for each station. the real plus is that I'm getting strong vhf signal with it, actually i can get wthn ch 8 and wkob ch 2 with this antenna.
> 
> 
> keyboard, like i said try aiming your antenna the other direction facing north rather than west. keeping on eye on the signal meter, you might need to be close to a window. give a shot you got notten to lose man.



OK let me ask you this ANTENNA MAN. What part of a LONG stick is North? What end is TOP? See the point. You asking me to aim a WET NOODLE.
























LOL


Thanks for the thought though


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20522512
> 
> 
> OK let me ask you this ANTENNA MAN. What part of a LONG stick is North? What end is TOP? See the point. You asking me to aim a WET NOODLE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> Thanks for the thought though



i think you don't understand me







aim you stick north towards bronx, the front part is the part of antenna that has the terk label? in other words aim away from esb. with the sides or ends of the antenna should pointing towards esb, got it now big guy lol


----------



## nycdigital09

Trip, how are you dude, hey i want to bug you with a question, kitz preamp do they have a model that is mast mounted, have you noticed a better performance than a winegard or channel master preamp.

txs


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20523263
> 
> 
> i think you don't understand me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aim you stick north towards bronx, the front part is the part of antenna that has the terk label? in other words aim away from esb. with the sides or ends of the antenna should pointing towards esb, got it now big guy lol



Trip in VA said I can have his OLD GIANT Antenna for our apartment. I figure my aunt does not need a BED or Sofa or any furniture for that matter










Nothing matters BUT the ability to get many more channels.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20523590
> 
> 
> trip in va said i can have his old giant antenna for our apartment. I figure my aunt does not need a bed or sofa or any furniture for that matter
> 
> :d
> 
> 
> nothing matters but the ability to get many more channels.



don't get that one. mind running that one by me again


----------



## SnellKrell

He's trading in his aunt for an antenna!


----------



## Trip in VA

I am so horribly confused.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20523295
> 
> 
> Trip, how are you dude, hey i want to bug you with a question, kitz preamp do they have a model that is mast mounted,



No, you have to put it in an enclosure.



> Quote:
> have you noticed a better performance than a winegard or channel master preamp.
> 
> txs



I did a comparison between my KT200 and my CM7777 and found that I preferred the performance of the KT200. The gain was higher on the CM7777, but it was wiped out by a higher noise floor. (Both are significantly better than anything with the Radio Shack name on it, of course.) The KT200 looked a lot cleaner on the spectrum analyzer.


- Trip


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20513891
> 
> 
> wnyx-lp 39 most likely but there could be agreement with 32 35 43 those stations could be online soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have you been to their site http://metvnetwork.com/videos.php



More low power stations you can't get in NJ without a super antenna?


----------



## dvdchance

I don't knowif it was a weather thing. but WLNY 45 was coming in real solid today. Did they do anything on their end to boost signal?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/20524417
> 
> 
> I don't knowif it was a weather thing. but WLNY 45 was coming in real solid today. Did they do anything on their end to boost signal?



doubt it since this nice patch of good weather lately, I been reliably pickin up WTNH rf8 all the time enjoy while it last










trip txs for tip.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20523726
> 
> 
> He's trading in his aunt for an antenna!



No just the furniture so I can fit his GIANT antenna in her apartment lol


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> doubt it since this nice patch of good weather lately, I been reliably pickin up WTNH rf8 all the time enjoy while it last
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trip txs for tip.



I believe WTNH is on rf10. Are u and kb21 related or both just live on avs?


----------



## nycdigital09

I need a life so, i'm perusing till something comes along


----------



## kickass69

FCC Freezes Channel Switches

Moves Comes As Commission Evaluates Spectrum Reallocation, Repacking Proposals

http://www.multichannel.com/article/...l_Switches.php 


"The Federal Communications Commission has issued a freeze on TV station requests to switch digital channel assignments.


The move comes as the commission starts to contemplate how to reallocate -- via incentive auction -- 120 MHz of spectrum from the broadcast band to wireless broadband, and move the remaining broadcasters to make room for that wireless service."


Claiming to want to improve VHF reception..pfft. How much you want to bet they'll try and force broadcasters who originally have VHF assignments back to their original channel numbers claiming VHF reception both low and high has improved and taking even more channels on the UHF side? In the end it's more about the FCC trying to kill OTA with the whole 'spectrum crunch' bs while ignoring companies who are sitting on spectrum and doing nothing with it.


----------



## nycdigital09

fcc should have left the high uhf band alone, It would have been much simpler for casual ota tv viewers tv spectrum would be aligned from ch30 to 69, there wouldn't been a need for new antennas to be bought and designed. like I told someone here last week that the large corporations and other entities exist just to burn a whole in our pockets. btw some nice tropo right now, pickin up wedw wsah coming in right now with just indoor antenna


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/20528057
> 
> 
> FCC Freezes Channel Switches
> 
> Moves Comes As Commission Evaluates Spectrum Reallocation, Repacking Proposals
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/...l_Switches.php
> 
> 
> "The Federal Communications Commission has issued a freeze on TV station requests to switch digital channel assignments.
> 
> 
> The move comes as the commission starts to contemplate how to reallocate -- via incentive auction -- 120 MHz of spectrum from the broadcast band to wireless broadband, and move the remaining broadcasters to make room for that wireless service."
> 
> 
> Claiming to want to improve VHF reception..pfft. How much you want to bet they'll try and force broadcasters who originally have VHF assignments back to their original channel numbers claiming VHF reception both low and high has improved and taking even more channels on the UHF side? In the end it's more about the FCC trying to kill OTA with the whole 'spectrum crunch' bs while ignoring companies who are sitting on spectrum and doing nothing with it.



How will this Affect the new CBS sub Channel coming in the 3rd quarter this year?


----------



## kickass69

keyboard21: Why would subchannels new or existing be affected by this? What I got out of that article was main channel assignments (2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 7-1) and so on wanting to switch assignments. The subchannels as we all know are attached to the main channel so there shouldn't be any issue with any new subchannels period.


----------



## George Molnar

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kickass69* 
keyboard21: Why would subchannels new or existing be affected by this? What I got out of that article was main channel assignments (2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 7-1) and so on wanting to switch assignments. The subchannels as we all know are attached to the main channel so there shouldn't be any issue with any new subchannels period.
I think the concern is if/when the FCC repacks several locals into the same 6 MHz spectrum, resulting instead of 2.1 and 2.2 sharing one 19.39 Mb stream, you could possibly have 2.1 and 2.2 and 4.1 and 4.2 and 4.3 all sharing that stream, and all fighting for bits.


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *George Molnar* 
I think the concern is if/when the FCC repacks several locals into the same 6 MHz spectrum, resulting instead of 2.1 and 2.2 sharing one 19.39 Mb stream, you could possibly have 2.1 and 2.2 and 4.1 and 4.2 and 4.3 all sharing that stream, and all fighting for bits.
There would be no quality signal with that configuration


----------



## jpru34

Can anyone here shed any light on the impact, if any, on OTA reception and content as a result of the proposed sale of NJN to WNET?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/20536230
> 
> 
> Can anyone here shed any light on the impact, if any, on OTA reception and content as a result of the proposed sale of NJN to WNET?



Stay tuned as it is still being worked out. From what I read in the Newark SL this AM there will be programming changes. As part of the deal there must remain some Jesey oriented programming but you will see more of the programming carried by WNET showing up. As someone who watches both channels I pretty much see a lot of the same programming appearing on both channels today so I don't really see what the difference will be.


As far as reception I did not see anything mentioned in today's paper about any changes in the transmission of the signal. I may have missed it but I was looking to see if they were going to move something.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20536559
> 
> 
> Stay tuned as it is still being worked out. From what I read in the Newark SL this AM there will be programming changes. As part of the deal there must remain some Jesey oriented programming but you will see more of the programming carried by WNET showing up. As someone who watches both channels I pretty much see a lot of the same programming appearing on both channels today so I don't really see what the difference will be.
> 
> 
> As far as reception I did not see anything mentioned in today's paper about any changes in the transmission of the signal. I may have missed it but I was looking to see if they were going to move something.



I found this when i googled no date given on article, that would be great news for ota users that can't receive njn with antenna, me included


Possible sale of one TV broadcast license – NJN’s New Brunswick transmitter may be transferred to NYC making the Montclair transmitter redundant. If the FCC declared the Montclair transmitter unneeded for public broadcasted and allowed its commercial sale, the value would likely exceed $250 million.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20536963
> 
> 
> I found this when i googled no date given on article, that would be great news for ota users that can't receive njn with antenna, me included
> 
> 
> Possible sale of one TV broadcast license - NJN's New Brunswick transmitter may be transferred to NYC making the Montclair transmitter redundant. If the FCC declared the Montclair transmitter unneeded for public broadcasted and allowed its commercial sale, the value would likely exceed $250 million.



This plan is still in its preliminary stage. The overwhelmingly Democratic NJ state legislature has to vote on the Republican governor's plan, and they may want to keep him in check considering there is a national spotlight on him right now. The plan is also subject to other regulatory approval.


What we know now: No changes to programming at WNET. NJN expected to be re-branded NJTV with requirements for a NJ-centric newscast everyday, coverage of relevant addresses and votes by NJ state officials, minimum 20 hours per week for NJ-centric programming. No discussion of selling any of the four TV stations or the four Translator TV stations. The radio licenses will be sold, some to WNYC and some to WHYY. Of the nine radio licenses, four bear the call letters of the four TV stations and one has the call-sign of WNJM-FM, that call-sign with the -TV suffix was used on Analog Channel 50 from its inception until 1994, when it was changed to WNJN. The duplicate call-signs between the Radio and TV stations may cause some confusion when discussing the future of the licenses.


It is important to note that the licenses will be retained by the State of New Jersey, and this appears to be a 24/7 LMA agreement with WNET.


----------



## icemannyr

It's a little more then a re branding because on July 1st NJN News will not exist anymore.

NJTV will be doing their own newscast with their own staff.

It is possible some of the NJN Anchors, Reporters and staff could be hired by NJTV.

I'm sure the programs that were produced by NJN will no longer exist either on NJTV.


What I did not like was them staying at the press conference that the new NJTV newscast will be more like the PBS News Hour with more stories on government and more discussion segments.

I'd rather have a traditional newscast since there is no other option on OTA TV for a New Jersey newscast.

On cable News 12 NJ does a good job, on FiOS TV the FiOS1 newscasts are very low budget since they are produced by RNN.


On and unrelated note, WSAH-DT 43 has started broadcasting Retro TV programming again.


----------



## Greg2600

WSAH-43 out of Bridgeport, CT, is back to airing Retro TV noon to midnight. I have it on FIOS (ch 19), the digital OTA is 42.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/20539146
> 
> 
> On cable News 12 NJ does a good job








































































































Thanks for the laugh!


Seriously, Cablevisions News 12 NJ gets facts wrong at least half the time, does NOT follow up on important stories, and the packages are so small that Congressman Anthony Weiner would never tweet them.


I think very highly of *NJN News*, and it has won many awards. The reporters also produce comprehensive and newsworthy packages. I hope if this or a similar plan comes to fruition, that the news intensity will remain or increase and that it will cover even more of New Jersey than it already does. I think the presentation and the set definitely needs some updating, though. After all, being sandwiched between the New York and Philadelphia markets with their respective newscasts makes the *NJN News* presentation look rather amateurish and cheap.


In the case of *NJN News*, what is appearance-wise poor is relevant content rich.


----------



## icemannyr

Here's the part about on the newscast,


"Among the programs that the network, which will be re-named NJTV, will air include:

A newly launched summertime edition of a news program in July—NJ Today—at the same frequency (4 broadcasts per day) and same airtimes as NJN currently runs.

In the fall a new version of NJ Today will premiere, with a focus on in-depth interviews, similar to the PBS NewsHour."


How much of PBS NewsHour is reporting on news stories and how much is interviews?


The New Jersey legislature is have a hearing on NJN being run by WNET & Caucus Education Corporation on Thursday and it will be covered by NJN live.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/20539274
> 
> 
> WSAH-43 out of Bridgeport, CT, is back to airing Retro TV noon to midnight. I have it on FIOS (ch 19), the digital OTA is 42.



yeah i can get them thru directv you got love them baby










must be 2 steamy to chat lol


----------



## icemannyr

Assembly Budget Committee Holds Hearing on NJN’s Future

June 8, 2011 by NJN News Desk


LIVE: Thursday, June 9, 2011, at 10:00 am on NJN1, Radio and Online


Coming on the heels of Governor Christie’s announcement of the proposed takeover of NJN Public Television’s operations by WNET in New York, the Assembly Budget Committee will conduct a public hearing on the proposed transfer. If ratified by the Legislature, the plan will take effect on July 1, 2011. NJN will provide live coverage of the Assembly Budget Committee Hearing on the proposed transfer of NJN’s operations to WNET.


----------



## nycdigital09

any recent news with the impending new jersey network takeover


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> any recent news with the impending new jersey network takeover


 http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._over_njn.html


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20551366
> 
> http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._over_njn.html



holy smokes!! it was inside job, I doubt is gonna happen now


----------



## SnellKrell

"An inside job"?


All the more reason it will happen.


More importantly, what's the alternative?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20552499
> 
> 
> "An inside job"?
> 
> 
> All the more reason it will happen.
> 
> 
> More importantly, what's the alternative?



What does this mean for OTA viewers in NY?


----------



## SnellKrell

For OTA, cable and satelllite viewers, it means that more than likely - WNET will run New Jersey Public Television - programming will change, as has been spelled out here already.


That's all!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20552499
> 
> 
> "An inside job"?
> 
> 
> All the more reason it will happen.
> 
> 
> More importantly, what's the alternative?



this is going to be a long process, that at the end it won't mean squat


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20556098
> 
> 
> this is going to be a long process, that at the end it won't mean squat



same programing?


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20559502
> 
> 
> same programing?



"...programming will change, as has been spelled out here already."


----------



## dreater

Content will change; there will be a daily news program, but the format will be different. Other current "public affairs" programming (Reporter's Roundtable, On The Record) will probably be gone. Stuff that Adubato provides now will continue. State of the Arts will probably continue, unless the state Council on the Arts decides not to fund it (or unless the Council succumbs to its own current scandal). The explicitly ethnic programming may go away; these programs draw very small audiences and are not strongly underwritten.


Transmission/signal quality will not change, at least in the short run. The state is retaining the licenses, transmitters and towers, and there are no current plans to change these. I believe that earlier NJN plans to relocate the Montclair transmitter to NYC (4 Times Square) are off the table, although that could change?


I am curious as to what may be planned for NJN-2 and NJN-3 after July 1st. There has been no public discussion that I've seen about programming NJN-2. NJN-3 currently carries an audio-only feed - newspapers read aloud, as a service of the Library for the Blind. Imrather hope that is continued...but again, there's been no public mention of it, and the local press/media don't seem to be aware that it exists.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dreater* /forum/post/20559684
> 
> 
> Content will change; there will be a daily news program, but the format will be different. Other current "public affairs" programming (Reporter's Roundtable, On The Record) will probably be gone. Stuff that Adubato provides now will continue. State of the Arts will probably continue, unless the state Council on the Arts decides not to fund it (or unless the Council succumbs to its own current scandal). The explicitly ethnic programming may go away; these programs draw very small audiences and are not strongly underwritten.
> 
> 
> Transmission/signal quality will not change, at least in the short run. The state is retaining the licenses, transmitters and towers, and there are no current plans to change these. I believe that earlier NJN plans to relocate the Montclair transmitter to NYC (4 Times Square) are off the table, although that could change?
> 
> 
> I am curious as to what may be planned for NJN-2 and NJN-3 after July 1st. There has been no public discussion that I've seen about programming NJN-2. NJN-3 currently carries an audio-only feed - newspapers read aloud, as a service of the Library for the Blind. Imrather hope that is continued...but again, there's been no public mention of it, and the local press/media don't seem to be aware that it exists.



smart move would be to sell montclair tower and tramsmitter to montclair state university for big $$ relocate njb58 to 4ts. btw i've been receiving wnjb58, and wnjn50 for past week, not sure if is tropo, njn has a nice hd picture quality.


----------



## keyboard21

Anymore news on that CBS sub station? I thought they said 3rd quarter this year? Must be coming up in the next 3 months and NO mor news? Strange? Seems that it might be delayed?


anyone?


----------



## AloEuro

I heard while ago somehwere, not here, guy complaining that his large flat screen HD TV

provided inferior, LowQualityPicture, he was thinking to reinstall Analog TV screen, blaming large HDflat screen to be inferior - but in line of thoughts of other guys here on this forum indicating that subs do provide LowerQP, thus crying over possible subs for CBS2-1, more subs the lower i and p.

My 20inchAnalogSony gives good PQ of INet/Tivax type box, if your 20inch HDFlat screen provides good PQ,then the TV can not be blamed and only the signal of low i and p can be blamed, anybody to confirm?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20611918
> 
> 
> I heard while ago somehwere, not here, guy complaining that his large flat screen HD TV
> 
> provided inferior, LowQualityPicture, he was thinking to reinstall Analog TV screen, blaming large HDflat screen to be inferior - but in line of thoughts of other guys here on this forum indicating that subs do provide LowerQP, thus crying over possible subs for CBS2-1, more subs the lower i and p.
> 
> My 20inchAnalogSony gives good PQ of INet/Tivax type box, if your 20inch HDFlat screen provides good PQ,then the TV can not be blamed and only the signal of low i and p can be blamed, anybody to confirm?



I heard the bigger Flat screens show more flaws in PQ. That is why they get mad. A 20" does not rally show any flaw's


----------



## Keith

42-4 (2.4) HOT TV

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...callsign=51441 


Is this on the air yet ?


----------



## nycdigital09

constant breakup on channel 5, and 9 mostly during the daytime anyone else having trouble pickin up these 2 stations, is being happening for last week or so.


----------



## LenL

They may be due to the weather we have been having the past few weeks. I have had some issues too with 5.1 and 9.1.


----------



## Keith

Has anyone tried one of these LONG Range Antennas from

http://www.antennahub.com


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/20619066
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried one of these LONG Range Antennas from
> 
> http://www.antennahub.com



Cheap Chinese stuff with ad copy written by someone who studied PT Barnum (except the recognized name brands...)


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/20619148
> 
> 
> Cheap Chinese stuff with ad copy written by someone who studied PT Barnum (except the recognized name brands...)



$120 for Hd 4228 antenna, talk about getting the vaseline ready


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Keith,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/20615144
> 
> 
> 42-4 (2.4) HOT TV
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...callsign=51441
> 
> 
> Is this on the air yet ?



Yes. *HOT TV: History Of Television* has been airing over 42-4 since March 30, 2011. On June 22, the PSIP information was finally changed from "TUFF TV" to "HOT TV"


And a new sub-channel may be added to the WKOB-LD lineup, replacing Daystar on 42-1. The WKOB test pattern (which has been seen before) is presently running on 42-1 indicating "GBC" will soon be occupying at that dial position. GBC stands for *Global Broadcasting Channel*, based out of Houston, TX.


The new stations rather barren website can be found here: Global Broadcasting Channel 


The 42-1 PSIP has also been changed from "Daystar" to "GBC". These changes took place on Saturday.


----------



## nycdigital09

gia, that link doesn't work for me, I found this page http://www.globalbroadcastingcompany.tv/channels.html 


I would like america unleashed or news,finance channel


----------



## T-Max

I've been DVR'ing Da Vinci's Inquest on WABC ch. 7.1 Monday mornings @ 1:35 for about a year now and this morning's recording crapped out after approximately a half hour when I suddenly lost all signal.


I got no signal for the next ~50 minutes that I continued recording.


I always program it to start early and continue for awhile after the scheduled ending, so I ended up recording an hour and 21 minutes total.


It's clear from what I recorded that I completely lost signal very suddenly and never got it back AT ALL during the final ~50 minutes. To me, this has to mean that it wasn't just some "iffy" reception problem that I was having.


It had to be either a problem ABC was having or some atmospheric problem that lasted that long -- which I find to be highly unlikely.


Not that I expect anybody else to be watching (or recording?) at that hour, but does anybody have any info on this, or can confirm what I had?


My signal strength is very good for WABC and I normally don't have any problems other than an occasional glitch caused by aircraft, weather or whatever.


Looks like it went out pretty much smack on @ 2:00 A.M.


----------



## SnellKrell

More than likely, the station was doing maintenance work.


The only time stations and the ESB can work on the masts is in the middle of the night.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20622994
> 
> 
> More than likely, the station was doing maintenance work. The only time stations and the ESB can work on the masts is in the middle of the night.



Anybody got an email address for ABC that actually gets a response?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey nycdigital09,
Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
gia, that link doesn't work for me, I found this page http://www.globalbroadcastingcompany.tv/channels.html 


I would like america unleashed or news,finance channel
The link I posted still works for me, so perhaps it is a browser issue on your end or some other issue. I don't think the website you found is connected to the programming which may launch on 42-1, although it does offer some interesting choices there. If the GBC plans fall through, I suspect Daystar would be returned to 42-1.


Personally, I wish Nave would talk to Weigel Broadcasting about airing MeTV on a WKOB-LD sub-channel. Without question, the MeTV lineup would complement the existing Retro TV and HOT TV channels. However, there are no reports I am aware of that would indicate such discussions are taking place.


Overall, I think Nave has been doing a very good job with WKOB-LD, and the programming proves how independent, relevant and valuable low-power TV services can be in a given TV market.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* 
Hey nycdigital09,


The link I posted still works for me, so perhaps it is a browser issue on your end or some other issue. I don't think the website you found is connected to the programming which may launch on 42-1, although it does offer some interesting choices there. If the GBC plans fall through, I suspect Daystar would be returned to 42-1.


Personally, I wish Nave would talk to Weigel Broadcasting about airing MeTV on a WKOB-LD sub-channel. Without question, the MeTV lineup would complement the existing Retro TV and HOT TV channels. However, there are no reports I am aware of that would indicate such discussions are taking place.


Overall, I think Nave has been doing a very good job with WKOB-LD, and the programming proves how independent, relevant and valuable low-power TV services can be in a given TV market.
I agreed whole heartely about metv lineup being good. there is a slight chance that cbs can make room in one of their subs for them.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Earlier tonight, the New Jersey Senate failed to block the governor's plan to allow WNET to run New Jersey public television. Lawmakers were one vote short in their effort to reject the governor’s negotiated agreement with WNET, the nation’s flagship PBS station based in New York. A similar resolution overwhelmingly passed the Assembly on Thursday.


Even if the Senate had successfully blocked the takeover, funds would have been almost entirely cut-off, and the governor's office maintained the state would only comply with the minimum programming and technical requirements to protect the TV licenses.


The unsuccessful vote means Public Media NJ, a New Jersey incorporated subsidiary of WNET, will begin operating the new network, to be called NJTV, on Friday.

N.J. Senate fails to block WNET plan, ending NJN network 


This deal affects the programming carried by four TV stations and four translator TV stations. The State of New Jersey will retain all of those licenses, and the technical operations are not expected to change.


A similar deal dictates the out-right sale of New Jersey’s nine public radio licenses. Those transfers, with WHYY in Philadelphia and New York Public Radio, operator of WNYC and WQXR, did not generate opposition and are expected to be signed tomorrow.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20626208
> 
> 
> Earlier tonight, the New Jersey Senate failed to block the governor's plan to allow WNET to run New Jersey public television. Lawmakers were one vote short in their effort to reject the governor’s negotiated agreement with WNET, the nation’s flagship PBS station based in New York. A similar resolution overwhelmingly passed the Assembly on Thursday.
> 
> 
> Even if the Senate had successfully blocked the takeover, funds would have been almost entirely cut-off, and the governor's office maintained the state would only comply with the minimum programming and technical requirements to protect the TV licenses.
> 
> 
> The unsuccessful vote means Public Media NJ, a New Jersey incorporated subsidiary of WNET, will begin operating the new network, to be called NJTV, on Friday.
> 
> N.J. Senate fails to block WNET plan, ending NJN network
> 
> 
> This deal affects the programming carried by four TV stations and four translator TV stations. The State of New Jersey will retain all of those licenses, and the technical operations are not expected to change.
> 
> 
> A similar deal dictates the out-right sale of New Jersey’s nine public radio licenses. Those transfers, with WHYY in Philadelphia and New York Public Radio, operator of WNYC and WQXR, did not generate opposition and are expected to be signed tomorrow.



i had thought that the takeover had been blocked, what it means that some their shows will probabably never be seen, i wanted to see the show about the pine barrens. they had some decent programming for a low budget station, now it will be a third wheel. christie is idiot and half, giving away new jersey network was a kickback for a favor or some other rubbish. i would turned njn to a regular profit station if it was draining money, similarly to what kcet los angeles did. there should be a provision that if njn network still has money problems that stations be giving back to new jersey.


----------



## nyc2010

I just noticed that on channel 23.3 an Indian channel called SAB is broadcasting now.


but on wikipedia it says 23.5 WDVB-LD 480i 4:3

here is the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDVB-CA 


Is this a new channel for us or is this just some sort of a test broadcast???


anyone know more about this?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey nyc2010,
Quote:

Originally Posted by *nyc2010* 
I just noticed that on channel 23.3 an Indian channel called SAB is broadcasting now.


but on wikipedia it says 23.5 WDVB-LD 480i 4:3

here is the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDVB-CA 


Is this a new channel for us or is this just some sort of a test broadcast???


anyone know more about this?
You didn't read the Wikipedia entry carefully and/or completely. Look again at the entry for April 18, 2011 which explains why this channel may display as 23.3










WDVB-LD really has to correct some audio issues. The Mexicanal audio only comes out the left channel while the SAB TV preview audio only comes out the right channel. Monaural TV sets cannot reproduce a usable audio signal for 23-3.


It was easier for me to receive this channel before the trees got full with leaves. Presently I only receive it sporadically. This is not an issue they can correct, as I believe they have to transmit with a very directional signal to protect WFTY, a full power TV station, in Smithtown, NY.


----------



## Greg2600

By the way, RetroTV was dealt a big blow it seems, as NBC-Universal have pulled their programming, which accounted for most of RTV's shows. The new lineup stinks.


----------



## nyc2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20629114
> 
> 
> Hey nyc2010,
> 
> 
> You didn't read the Wikipedia entry carefully and/or completely. Look again at the entry for April 18, 2011 which explains why this channel may display as 23.3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WDVB-LD really has to correct some audio issues. The Mexicanal audio only comes out the left channel while the SAB TV preview audio only comes out the right channel. Monaural TV sets cannot reproduce a usable audio signal for 23-3.
> 
> 
> It was easier for me to receive this channel before the trees got full with leaves. Presently I only receive it sporadically. This is not an issue they can correct, as I believe they have to transmit with a very directional signal to protect WFTY, a full power TV station, in Smithtown, NY.



that explains why it is so hard to get this channel. it just comes and goes on its own. does this channel also broadcasts to nyc area or is it just focused on NJ residents?


as per wikipedia, their transmitter is on empire state building,but then on the fcc site, it links to the map below. is this really the actual area that they cover?

http://maps.google.com/?q=http://www...SON%26state=NJ 


anyone know where i can find the actual signal area that their transmitter covers on nyc and nj side, in a similar image?


----------



## Trip in VA

This is the WDVB-LD coverage area: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1356184&map=Y 


- Trip


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20631788
> 
> 
> This is the WDVB-LD coverage area: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1356184&map=Y
> 
> 
> - Trip



That map is incredibly optimistic regarding signal coverage, IMHO.


I'm in an area shown as green, just a hair south of Elizabeth, and 23 hasn't been even scanned by my DTVPal in months now. And I have a decent outdoor roof antenea pointed toward NYC.


----------



## Trip in VA

I was in Fair Lawn yesterday with an indoor antenna and had no problem with it.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/20629980
> 
> 
> By the way, RetroTV was dealt a big blow it seems, as NBC-Universal have pulled their programming, which accounted for most of RTV's shows. The new lineup stinks.



I do not think too many people care. Due to the fact that RTV went with a carrier that has a weak signal that many of us can not get. Also with the NETWORK run Antenna TV going strong. We get all the old TV/movies that one could handel.


Why is there a need for 2 old tv show channels?


Now if RTV would change format to OLD NEWS Network. I would watch. I always wanted to know who won WWII. lol


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20633253
> 
> 
> I do not think too many people care. Due to the fact that RTV went with a carrier that has a weak signal that many of us can not get. Also with the NETWORK run Antenna TV going strong. We get all the old TV/movies that one could handel.
> 
> 
> Why is there a need for 2 old tv show channels?
> 
> 
> Now if RTV would change format to OLD NEWS Network. I would watch. I always wanted to know who won WWII. lol



Include me in one of the viewers that care. lol really, i think we are over synthesized with news and weather, I would like to see a channel like cooltv that shows latest videos, yeah give us more of justin beaver.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20633953
> 
> 
> Include me in one of the viewers that care. lol really, i think we are over synthesized with news and weather, I would like to see a channel like cooltv that shows latest videos, yeah give us more of justin beaver.



You might be only one of the 3 people who get this RTV channel. Hope you watch the commercials,


----------



## nycdigital09





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20634114
> 
> 
> You might be only one of the 3 people who get this RTV channel. Hope you watch the commercials,



is nothing to write home about i want metv their lineup is sooo much better than thistv or antennatv. btw have you been to grimaldi's ate there saturday night, food was superb


----------



## icemannyr

According to the program guide at http://njn.net/television/schedules/ 

NJN1 HD will switch to NJTV Friday at 12am.

NJN2 SD will go off the air at that time.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/20635307
> 
> 
> According to the program guide at http://njn.net/television/schedules/
> 
> NJN1 HD will switch to NJTV Friday at 12am.
> 
> NJN2 SD will go off the air at that time.



Tomorrow, June 30, 2011, New Jersey Network will air the final editions of *NJN News* on NJN-2 at 5:30PM, and on NJN-1 at 6PM, 7:30PM, and 11PM. During that newscast, there is scheduled to be a retrospect celebration of the forty years of service this network has provided.


On a personal note, I think New Jersey Network has served the people of this state very well and their contribution cannot be understated. The residents of New Jersey have been well informed due to the countless hours spent by the reporters, producers, and the technical staff who all did the best they could sandwiched between two major media markets with limited financial support that dwindled as the years passed.


I also feel the state legislature did not do enough to ensure a better outcome in this situation. I do not believe the governor deserves the entirety of the blame. Government financing of this operation was an ongoing issue for many years that was not seriously addressed by the elected officials whose responsibility it was to do so.


I truly wish the employees and management of New Jersey Network all of the best for the future. Thank you.


----------



## LenL

NJN was given away and should have been given to the University. However the President of Montclair was not a good salesman. I watched the hearing and she did a very poor job of explaining why her school should have been given the NJN franchise. She should have prepped a lot better. Her presentation was fuzzy and not very strong. If her school has a marketing course she should take one or better yet sit down with her marketing professor and ask him what she did wrong. She will get a schooling on how to sell!


We voters in NJ should remember this and the people who sold NJN to a NY entitiy!


By the way I never heard anything about there being subs (50.2, 58.2 etc) being carried anymore when WNET takes over. Any word on this? Does is cost more to run the subs? If so I can see them being shut down.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20634126
> 
> 
> is nothing to write home about i want metv their lineup is sooo much better than thistv or antennatv. btw have you been to grimaldi's ate there saturday night, food was superb



sent you a pm











I also like the METV website list of programing


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20636548
> 
> 
> NJN was given away and should have been given to the University. However the President of Montclair was not a good salesman. I watched the hearing and she did a very poor job of explaining why her school should have been given the NJN franchise. She should have prepped a lot better. Her presentation was fuzzy and not very strong. If her school has a marketing course she should take one or better yet sit down with her marketing professor and ask him what she did wrong. She will get a schooling on how to sell!
> 
> 
> We voters in NJ should remember this and the people who sold NJN to a NY entitiy!
> 
> 
> By the way I never heard anything about there being subs (50.2, 58.2 etc) being carried anymore when WNET takes over. Any word on this? Does is cost more to run the subs? If so I can see them being shut down.



I do not get this at all? It seems this turned into a NJ/NY pride thing again. Just like the Statue of Liberty control fight.


These are PBS stations correct? Who watches much PBS? Does it really matter who owns them?


Maybe someone can explain to me how this is more then just a NJ pride thing?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20637475
> 
> 
> I do not get this at all? It seems this turned into a NJ/NY pride thing again. Just like the Statue of Liberty control fight.
> 
> 
> These are PBS stations correct? Who watches much PBS? Does it really matter who owns them?
> 
> 
> Maybe someone can explain to me how this is more then just a NJ pride thing?



Perhaps there are some feelings of pride here, but I can assure you it is about more than just that.


Many viewers in New Jersey have always felt screwed when it comes to New Jersey centric television coverage. And for good reasons.


The first blow came when WNET, licensed to Newark, NJ., moved its operations to Manhattan in 1982, and concentrated more on being the flagship PBS affiliate based in NYC while eclipsing coverage of New Jersey issues, just like its commercial counterparts.


The second blow came around the same time when then WOR-TV was having difficulty renewing its license. Many people are familiar with the details, but to summarize, to secure at least one more five year renewal of its license, the station moved to Secaucus, NJ. in 1983, and even constructed a studio at that location. The content, however, has almost always been directed towards the NYC audience. This lack of NJ coverage has been a recurring issue every time their license comes up for renewal, and has gotten worse since Fox acquired the station, merged the news operations, and now uses it essentially as a back-up for WNYW.


Effectively, unless a major shooting or political issue happens in New Jersey, the NYC and Philadelphia TV stations concentrate on their own cities and outlying boroughs. I can understand they want to program to their target audience, but it leaves a lot of news in New Jersey uncovered. That is the void that NJN has helped to fill over the past forty years.


With the transfer of operations to a WNET subsidiary, many viewers in NJ are questioning whether the stations will continue the mission that NJN satisfied, or will they become another WLIW or WWOR-TV story? The politically-connected Steve Adubato, Jr. involvement makes the deal seem questionable at best and doesn't help to sell it to NJ residents.


Here is a very comprehensive article about the transfer from the New Jersey Star Ledger:

As NJN shifts to NJTV, its staff finds a way to say goodbye 


Regardless, NJTV will be launched officially at Midnight, and the first *NJ Today* newscast is scheduled to air 7/1/2011 at 6PM. We may get an indication of the coverage this new venture will provide, but to really know we will have to evaluate it throughout the year to see if WNET keeps its commitments to be New Jersey centric.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20638532
> 
> 
> Perhaps there are some feelings of pride here, but I can assure you it is about more than just that.
> 
> 
> Many viewers in New Jersey have always felt screwed when it comes to New Jersey centric television coverage. And for good reasons.
> 
> 
> The first blow came when WNET, licensed to Newark, NJ., moved its operations to Manhattan in 1982, and concentrated more on being the flagship PBS affiliate based in NYC while eclipsing coverage of New Jersey issues, just like its commercial counterparts.
> 
> 
> The second blow came around the same time when then WOR-TV was having difficulty renewing its license. Many people are familiar with the details, but to summarize, to secure at least one more five year renewal of its license, the station moved to Secaucus, NJ. in 1983, and even constructed a studio at that location. The content, however, has almost always been directed towards the NYC audience. This lack of NJ coverage has been a recurring issue every time their license comes up for renewal, and has gotten worse since Fox acquired the station, merged the news operations, and now uses it essentially as a back-up for WNYW.
> 
> 
> Effectively, unless a major shooting or political issue happens in New Jersey, the NYC and Philadelphia TV stations concentrate on their own cities and outlying boroughs. I can understand they want to program to their target audience, but it leaves a lot of news in New Jersey uncovered. That is the void that NJN has helped to fill over the past forty years.
> 
> 
> With the transfer of operations to a WNET subsidiary, many viewers in NJ are questioning whether the stations will continue the mission that NJN satisfied, or will they become another WLIW or WWOR-TV story? The politically-connected Steve Adubato, Jr. involvement makes the deal seem questionable at best and doesn't help to sell it to NJ residents.
> 
> 
> Here is a very comprehensive article about the transfer from the New Jersey Star Ledger:
> 
> As NJN shifts to NJTV, its staff finds a way to say goodbye
> 
> 
> Regardless, NJTV will be launched officially at Midnight, and the first *NJ Today* newscast is scheduled to air 7/1/2011 at 6PM. We may get an indication of the coverage this new venture will provide, but to really know we will have to evaluate it throughout the year to see if WNET keeps its commitments to be New Jersey centric.



I didn't even know WNYW had news?







I most certainly would watch my news from a major.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20639259
> 
> 
> I didn't even know WNYW had news?



Ummm.... WNYW has had a one-hour 10PM newscast for over thirty years which has consistently ranked in first place































> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20639259
> 
> 
> I most certainly would watch my news from a major.



The quality of a newscast is not dependent upon whether a station is situated in a major market, just outside of one, or in a mid or minor media market. As NJN and other small TV stations have proven, quality also is not dependent upon budget.


For example, if it were still an option, I would watch *NJN News* over the "News" on WPIX anytime.


----------



## kickass69

The station is home to one of America's longest-running primetime local newscasts. The 10 O’Clock News (now Fox 5 News at Ten) premiered on March 13, 1967, as New York's first primetime newscast. Fox continued the 10 O'Clock newscast when Rupert Murdoch bought the old metromedia network in 1986.


How could anyone NOT know they had a newscast. WWOR also had had a newscast for decades.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/20639449
> 
> 
> The station is home to one of America's longest-running primetime local newscasts. The 10 O’Clock News (now Fox 5 News at Ten) premiered on March 13, 1967, as New York's first primetime newscast. Fox continued the 10 O'Clock newscast when Rupert Murdoch bought the old metromedia network in 1986.
> 
> 
> How could anyone NOT know they had a newscast. WWOR also had had a newscast for decades.



As you ALL are aware. It is my aunt who is OTA. I live too far from NYC to go OTA. I would love too.


Anyway, I watch CNN, CNBC, Fox news ALL the time. So need for 10 pm news. I get it 24/7


I do use OTA upstate cabin, but that is during vacation.


My aunt asked me to keep on eye on this board for new channels ect. Or if she has a question.


If that BAMBOOM.com becomes a reality. I might switch to that and get a roku box ect. I would love OTA and bamboom.com that will charge a cheap fee to put OTA on the internet. Would be great. OF course I bet there will be years of lawsuits.


----------



## icemannyr

The bug logo for NJ TV is awful.

Instead of having the NJ TV letters on the screen it's a reverse clear letters in a white background.

They better fix this fast as it's very annoying.


----------



## Aero 1

You old farts sure are upset over NJ only news







. Us young OTA'rs don't give a crap, we get our NJ news from the Internet. I personally, I'm not hurting over a NJ channel, never watched it.


----------



## LenL

First, you got one thing correct. I am an old fart. Secondly you will be one soon before you know it....so don't knock it.


For others who bash Public Television etc.


First the news programming on NJN is just about 100% NJ oriented. The best coverage possible. Personally I seldom watched it but if there was a big news story about NJ happening I did.


Secondly NJN had a lot of NJ centric programming. Whether it was about places to eat, places to visit, famous events, people or history. Stuff you would never see on the NY or Philadelphia stations.


Thirdly it did have a lot of PBS programmimg that channel 13 carries. However I really don't get great reception for 13 and I do for NJN. So I watch NJN quite a bit.


Finally there are many of us old farts who watch PBS shows like "Hustle" (one of the best shows on TV about grifters ever), Doc Martin, Masterpiece Theater, Nature, etc, etc.....


Anyway this programming may continue minus the extended local NJ news coverage which is accpetable but once again treats NJ as simply a suburb of NY or Philly. Which I guess is what it has become......


----------



## nycdigital09

noticed last night their showing silent movies ei. chaplin, keaton on ch32,35 some of those shorts are pretty funny. I will say njtv should be given a opportunity to see what they can bring to table, before I shoot em down.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20640786
> 
> 
> First the news programming on NJN is just about 100% NJ oriented. The best coverage possible. Personally I seldom watched it but if there was a big news story about NJ happening I did.



I think that was the heart of the matter.


Like you, so many thought the news coverage was great but seldom watched it. I read somewhere that an average newcast got like 20.000 viewers, pretty sad out of the 8 million residents of NJ.


Maybe it really wasn't as vital as some folks are making it out to have been.


----------



## dreater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20640786
> 
> 
> First the news programming on NJN is just about 100% NJ oriented. The best coverage possible. Personally I seldom watched it but if there was a big news story about NJ happening I did.



We're going to have to wait and see how NJTV handles this. Most days, there just aren't "big news stories about NJ happening." But on the days there are, we'll see whether NJTV can cover them adequately or not.



> Quote:
> Secondly NJN had a lot of NJ centric programming. Whether it was about places to eat, places to visit, famous events, people or history. Stuff you would never see on the NY or Philadelphia stations.



This programming, I'm afraid we'll lose, at least in the short run. NJTV has committed to do a similar amount of "NJ-centric" programming, but for now it looks as if it will be pretty much all news/politics (Adubato's stuff), plus State of the Arts. Hopefully, some other partners will step up with more cultural programming (Montclair State?).



> Quote:
> Thirdly it did have a lot of PBS programmimg that channel 13 carries. However I really don't get great reception for 13 and I do for NJN. So I watch NJN quite a bit.



This isn't going to change. The schedule will probably change, but the programs will generally still be there.



> Quote:
> Anyway this programming may continue minus the extended local NJ news coverage which is accpetable but once again treats NJ as simply a suburb of NY or Philly. Which I guess is what it has become......



For an awful lot of New Jersey residents, that's what it's always been. People work in "the city" (whether New York or Philly), but live in New Jersey. They play in "the city" (theaters, restaurants, athletic events, etc.), but sleep in New Jersey.


Of course there are lots of Jerseyans who *don't* spend most of their waking lives in "the city" - but there an awful lot who do... and New Jersey wouldn't have anywhere near 8 million residents if there were no bridges or tunnels across the Hudson and the Delaware.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dreater* /forum/post/20641684
> 
> 
> We're going to have to wait and see how NJTV handles this. Most days, there just aren't "big news stories about NJ happening." But on the days there are, we'll see whether NJTV can cover them adequately or not.
> 
> 
> 
> This programming, I'm afraid we'll lose, at least in the short run. NJTV has committed to do a similar amount of "NJ-centric" programming, but for now it looks as if it will be pretty much all news/politics (Adubato's stuff), plus State of the Arts. Hopefully, some other partners will step up with more cultural programming (Montclair State?).
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't going to change. The schedule will probably change, but the programs will generally still be there.
> 
> 
> 
> For an awful lot of New Jersey residents, that's what it's always been. People work in "the city" (whether New York or Philly), but live in New Jersey. They play in "the city" (theaters, restaurants, athletic events, etc.), but sleep in New Jersey.
> 
> 
> Of course there are lots of Jerseyans who *don't* spend most of their waking lives in "the city" - but there an awful lot who do... and New Jersey wouldn't have anywhere near 8 million residents if there were no bridges or tunnels across the Hudson and the Delaware.



so you're saying new jersey is basically just a piss stop on the way to nyc or philly







I buy that.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/20640264
> 
> 
> The bug logo for NJ TV is awful.
> 
> Instead of having the NJ TV letters on the screen it's a reverse clear letters in a white background.
> 
> They better fix this fast as it's very annoying.



What are you saying?


That it bugs you?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20641220
> 
> 
> noticed last night their showing silent movies ei. chaplin, keaton on ch32,35 some of those shorts are pretty funny. I will say njtv should be given a opportunity to see what they can bring to table, before I shoot em down.



This is the same programming which has been airing on co-owned analog WNYZ-LP New York, Channel 6. I presume, being these are silent movies, there is no audio to accompany the video, is that correct?


I have not been able to receive any of the Island Broadcasting LDs (26, 32, 35, 43) thus far.


----------



## icemannyr

Tonight the first so called NJ Today news cast on NJTV was far from a newscast.

It had the appearance of being on tape and no reports from any reporters.

There was just one segment on the state budget and a long form interview with the governor

and an interview with Neal Shapiro saying they are not ready to do a newscast so NJ Today will be mostly interviews.

Currently I could get more NJ news from FiOS1 news which is not saying much about NJTV.

It better not take them till the fall to do a real newscast as they keep saying.


----------



## dreater

What other stories do you think NJ Today should have covered today? Reviewing the nj.com website, I see exactly one other "public affairs" story that might have made NJN News - Christie's late-afternoon veto of the NJ Racing Commission's actions subsidizing tracks. The only other story on nj.com this evening that isn't either about yesterday's budget veto, or "fluff" (e.g., shootings, burglary, a runaway baboon, etc.) is a story on the Hagedorn closing...but that story ran this evening, after NJN News would have been long put to bed.


It was a slow day for "public affairs" news in New Jersey- Friday before the holiday weekend, Trenton mostly quiet after the budget battle. NJTV may well drop the ball...but there wasn't much that "should" have been covered today.


I'm reserving judgment...but I didn't find this evening's show particularly disappointing. I enjoyed the segment with the Governor; I often don't agree with him, but he's refreshingly blunt.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* 
This is the same programming which has been airing on co-owned analog WNYZ-LP New York, Channel 6. I presume, being these are silent movies, there is no audio to accompany the video, is that correct?



no audio



I have not been able to receive any of the Island Broadcasting LDs (26, 32, 35, 43) thus far.
i just barely get their signal on ch 35 no audible audio detected btw i'm able to pickup retrotv 2nite on wsah ch43 with an indoor antenna.










keyboard no pm from you. tried resending it again


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
i can barely get their signal on one of the channels 35 the other channels signal is weak. tonight i'm able to pickup wsah from bridgeport ch43 this is with an indoor antenna.


keyboard no pm from you. tried resending it again
ok again


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dreater* /forum/post/20643764
> 
> 
> What other stories do you think NJ Today should have covered today? Reviewing the nj.com website, I see exactly one other "public affairs" story that might have made NJN News - Christie's late-afternoon veto of the NJ Racing Commission's actions subsidizing tracks. The only other story on nj.com this evening that isn't either about yesterday's budget veto, or "fluff" (e.g., shootings, burglary, a runaway baboon, etc.) is a story on the Hagedorn closing...but that story ran this evening, after NJN News would have been long put to bed.
> 
> 
> It was a slow day for "public affairs" news in New Jersey- Friday before the holiday weekend, Trenton mostly quiet after the budget battle. NJTV may well drop the ball...but there wasn't much that "should" have been covered today.
> 
> 
> I'm reserving judgment...but I didn't find this evening's show particularly disappointing. I enjoyed the segment with the Governor; I often don't agree with him, but he's refreshingly blunt.



All they need is one reporter in 2 of our largest cities, Newark and Camden and they will be quite busy covering: murders, rapes, robberies, human interest stories, arts, restaurants, sports etc.....Treat these 2 cities like New York and Philadelphia stations do for those respective cities and the news will take care of itself!


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dreater* /forum/post/20643764
> 
> 
> What other stories do you think NJ Today should have covered today? Reviewing the nj.com website, I see exactly one other "public affairs" story that might have made NJN News - Christie's late-afternoon veto of the NJ Racing Commission's actions subsidizing tracks. The only other story on nj.com this evening that isn't either about yesterday's budget veto, or "fluff" (e.g., shootings, burglary, a runaway baboon, etc.) is a story on the Hagedorn closing...but that story ran this evening, after NJN News would have been long put to bed.
> 
> 
> It was a slow day for "public affairs" news in New Jersey- Friday before the holiday weekend, Trenton mostly quiet after the budget battle. NJTV may well drop the ball...but there wasn't much that "should" have been covered today.
> 
> 
> I'm reserving judgment...but I didn't find this evening's show particularly disappointing. I enjoyed the segment with the Governor; I often don't agree with him, but he's refreshingly blunt.



Here's my problem with NJ Today, "The program will cover news across the state with a concentration on government and public policy."

From http://www.njtvonline.org/blog/news/nj-today/ 


That's my point, I want just as much general interest news and not a

concentration on government and public policy.


The text describing the newscast was not that close to what aired Firday.
http://www.njtvonline.org/blog/news/...miere-episode/ 

"Welcome to NJToday Summer Edition, a new half-hour news show on NJTV. Join Rafael Pi Roman, the show’s host, Monday through Friday as he takes you through the day’s top headlines, in-depth interviews, features, and late-breaking news. "


The day’s top headlines? Never happened. In-depth interviews? Yes two of those. Late-breaking news? No.


The show on Friday was not a news cast. There were no live reports from any reporters on NJ town news or government news. It had the feel of being all taped.


If you are not ready to do a real newscast with reporters and live reports because NJTV just started that's ok and I understand that.

Just don't air something now that you claim to be a newscast.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/20645207
> 
> 
> Here's my problem with NJ Today, "The program will cover news across the state with a concentration on government and public policy."
> 
> From http://www.njtvonline.org/blog/news/nj-today/
> 
> 
> That's my point, I want just as much general interest news and not a
> 
> concentration on government and public policy.
> 
> 
> The text describing the newscast was not that close to what aired Firday.
> http://www.njtvonline.org/blog/news/...miere-episode/
> 
> "Welcome to NJToday Summer Edition, a new half-hour news show on NJTV. Join Rafael Pi Roman, the show's host, Monday through Friday as he takes you through the day's top headlines, in-depth interviews, features, and late-breaking news. "
> 
> 
> The day's top headlines? Never happened. In-depth interviews? Yes two of those. Late-breaking news? No.
> 
> 
> The show on Friday was not a news cast. There were no live reports from any reporters on NJ town news or government news. It had the feel of being all taped.
> 
> 
> If you are not ready to do a real newscast with reporters and live reports because NJTV just started that's ok and I understand that.
> 
> Just don't air something now that you claim to be a newscast.



wnet is gonna bankrupt new jersey tv a few months down the road there won't be any sign there ever was a njn.


----------



## jam-h

Curious. Anyone else who had set their Magnavox DVR to use DTV 2 WCBS for the time, notice it recently sets the unit several minutes fast? Just switched it to a different station (WNBC), let it auto-set, and it was OK.


----------



## jam-h

FYI. It's them. I dug out a Zenith DTV-box, and see the same wrong time on the info screen when tuned to CBS/DTV-2.


----------



## nycdigital09

Lenny how did you make out with your new antenna project? I'm designing a dbgh to try out in a new location. you know a dbgh has 17 decibels gain, thats equal to a pair of stacked cm 4228


----------



## LenL

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
Lenny how did you make out with your new antenna project? I'm designing a dbgh to try out in a new location. you know a dbgh has 17 decibels gain, thats equal to a pair of stacked cm 4228








I have posted pictures and info here:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...121956&page=21 


Considering how low I mounted it I have to be happy with the results. My next step may be to mount it higher up closer to my CM4228 and see what happens. I just have to get over my fear of heights and get the ladder out.


----------



## nycdigital09

I like to built a gray hoverman for the 7-51 channel band what are norads?? seems like you're a pro on building diy antennas


----------



## nycdigital09

anybody noticed wliw ch21 signal went out abruptly for extended time, last night i was tuned to one of their programs i think it was 21-3 world around 7:15pm and signal just went out. I tuned to other channels, thinking it was macroblocking so forth. but all stations were fine. I checked, rechecked everything possible, it was not my stb or antenna or tv. as abruptly as the signal went out, it just popped in about 1/2 hour later like nothing happened. I was left wondering with wnet taking over of new jersey network, n*ow thats 3 stations* that wnet is controlling and their technical staff being so depleted, that we'll start seeing more glitches and fade outs being common occurence on all 3 channels.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNET will have nothing to do with the transmitters and the antennae.


----------



## LenL

NYC,


I sent you a private message answering your questions. OTA is great with the right antenna and location. I highly recommend the GH design if you want to dabble in making your own! I tried others and this design was the best for me.


----------



## AloEuro

Just as - nycdigital09 - noted ch.32 seems to run non-stop b/w silent funnies .

ch.32 wxny 720x480i 30Hz


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20669317
> 
> 
> Just as - nycdigital09 - noted ch.32 seems to run non-stop b/w silent funnies .
> 
> ch.32 wxny 720x480i 30Hz



I am not picking it up in Manhattan. 32.1 - Frequency 32...


----------



## nycdigital09

the programming is on 4 channels 26 32 35 43 the only thing is that 35 screws with me pickin up wvit nbc affiliate out hartford i use to get their signal in the evening, I guess i can live without 1 less channel


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AloEuro* 
Just as - nycdigital09 - noted ch.32 seems to run non-stop b/w silent funnies .

ch.32 wxny 720x480i 30Hz
confirmed


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *LenL* 
I have posted pictures and info here:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...121956&page=21 


Considering how low I mounted it I have to be happy with the results. My next step may be to mount it higher up closer to my CM4228 and see what happens. I just have to get over my fear of heights and get the ladder out.
I am sure your neighbors must luv this Ugly thing in their view. lol But as long as it works to get in more stations.


----------



## mikepier

This morning I did a scan to check for some tropo action. The only thing new I picked up is 17.1 GCN (Global Christian Network)


----------



## keyboard21

Ok had an issue. Not sure if it is a NYC/OTA thing or a Dtvpal drv problem. So I am posting in both threads.


Last week my aunt got 2 add-on channels. 13-102 13-103 this in in addition to 13.1 .2 .3.


Anyone else get 13. 101 13.102?


When you change the station the DVR Froze for like 30 seconds to 1 minute. Every-time this happened When I flipped through the stations and got to 13.101 and 13.102


I did a factory restore and the problem went away. What is the cause of this?


Anyone have this done to them?


ty


----------



## keyboard21

Another Question. Did Channel 5 (FOX) change formats? I am not getting black lines on the sides. It does not seem like 16.9 but that new format. What is it called 5.2? Something like that


thanks


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21* 
Ok had an issue. Not sure if it is a NYC/OTA thing or a Dtvpal drv problem. So I am posting in both threads.


Last week my aunt got 2 add-on channels. 13-102 13-103 this in in addition to 13.1 .2 .3.


Anyone else get 13. 101 13.102?


When you change the station the DVR Froze for like 30 seconds to 1 minute. Every-time this happened When I flipped through the stations and got to 13.101 and 13.102


I did a factory restore and the problem went away. What is the cause of this?


Anyone have this done to them?


ty
I'm sure is just a dsp signal error on your dvr nothing more or less. maybe you can try manually adjusting your channel, on my stb i can manually tune in channel it bypass all the subchannels.


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
I'm sure is just a dsp signal error on your dvr nothing more or less. maybe you can try manually adjusting your channel, on my stb i can manually tune in channel it bypass all the subchannels.
dsp?



I did a factory restore and problem is fixed. I wonder if it will happen again?


----------



## nycdigital09

dsp short for digital signal processing


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20670551
> 
> 
> dsp short for digital signal processing



The guys on the DtVpal board are saying that channel 13 (PBS) is the culprit. That channel 101/102 are for UPDATE TV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV 

*The UpdateTV network can deliver updates to many types of devices - not just television sets. Devices such as Blu-ray players, mobile/handheld TVs, set-top boxes and gaming consoles are capable of using the service - since they are connected to the Internet, a cable network, and/or a digital TV antenna.
*


I guess I can see how an UPDATE channels (101, 102) Would drive the DTVpal crazy. It is trying to update a DVR that can not accept updates.


You would think that other TV/Dvr would have this problem. Funny how no one else who owns my DVR has had this issue?


Or that you guys had NOT had this issue.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20669821
> 
> 
> I am sure your neighbors must luv this Ugly thing in their view. lol But as long as it works to get in more stations.



Actually since it is up against the chimmney it is not all that visible. There are trees about 20-30 feet in front hiding it pretty much from the road. The only one who can really see it is the neighbor right next door.


We have people with 2 and 3 satellite dishes on their roofs that are far more visible.


I don't complain about their dog barking all hours of the day and night so they should not mind my quiet antennas.


----------



## LenL

OPtimum was out in my town and a neighbroing town from about 2 PM till 8 PM last night. No TV, internet ot phone service!


While I was enjoying OTA TV everyone around me was w/o TV! Ain't OTA great! I wonder if I will get a credit on my bill for the phone and internet outage? hahahahha jokes on me for eben thinking it!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20673201
> 
> 
> OPtimum was out in my town and a neighbroing town from about 2 PM till 8 PM last night. No TV, internet ot phone service!
> 
> 
> While I was enjoying OTA TV everyone around me was w/o TV! Ain't OTA great! I wonder if I will get a credit on my bill for the phone and internet outage? hahahahha jokes on me for eben thinking it!



I doubt give you much of refund, they most likely give you an excuse of tree down in your area. Looking at good tropo tonite. http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html#hour24


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *LenL* 
Actually since it is up against the chimmney it is not all that visible. There are trees about 20-30 feet in front hiding it pretty much from the road. The only one who can really see it is the neighbor right next door.


We have people with 2 and 3 satellite dishes on their roofs that are far more visible.


I don't complain about their dog barking all hours of the day and night so they should not mind my quiet antennas.
Oh I got the perfect thing for your problem. PM sent


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20672137
> 
> 
> The guys on the DtVpal board are saying that channel 13 (PBS) is the culprit. That channel 101/102 are for UPDATE TV.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV
> 
> *The UpdateTV network can deliver updates to many types of devices - not just television sets. Devices such as Blu-ray players, mobile/handheld TVs, set-top boxes and gaming consoles are capable of using the service - since they are connected to the Internet, a cable network, and/or a digital TV antenna.
> *
> 
> 
> I guess I can see how an UPDATE channels (101, 102) Would drive the DTVpal crazy. It is trying to update a DVR that can not accept updates.
> 
> 
> You would think that other TV/Dvr would have this problem. Funny how no one else who owns my DVR has had this issue?
> 
> 
> Or that you guys had NOT had this issue.



I have a DVD burner with a atsc tuner. Subchannels 101/102 drive my DVD burner crazy. The entire unit locks up if I tune to those channels. My work around is to delete those channels from my lineup after I've done a channel scan.


----------



## nycdigital09

was watching bloodsport last night on wpix sub 11.3 thistv, on the action scenes the pq was boxie and really gross.







btw good tropo last night, anyone get good catches. I had wgbh ch19 a pbs from boston come for awhile.


----------



## jmsnyc

nycdigital09 -


just curious, what kind of antenna are you using and where in nyc are you?


i am sure you posted it earlier in the thread but you have a lot of posts


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/20680736
> 
> 
> nycdigital09 -
> 
> 
> just curious, what kind of antenna are you using and where in nyc are you?
> 
> 
> i am sure you posted it earlier in the thread but you have a lot of posts



hello jim, I'm presently living in north queens less than mile from lga. i'm using a 91xg roof mounted at 30 ft. my impressions of this antenna is not too favorable, I had smaller uhf yagi antenna at the same height that was better, when it gets windy around here i get pixelation.


----------



## jmsnyc

I am extremely close (half mile) to the ESB. I am in apt building facing north. I have the Terk HDTVa which I keep near the window but with the uhf part pointed towards wall in direction of ESB.


People have suggested not to use the preamp that is included with the HDTVa since I am so close but I find if I do not use it my reception is worse.


I am using WMC and I just ran the signal strength and it seems to be excellent on almost all the channels I am expected to get. Also get clear qam from TWC (only basic - no box) on another tuner so for many channels I have duplicate sources.


RTV sometimes has pixelation. I tried to get 32.1 as someone posted earlier but nothing.


In my situation, with my antenna, is it even worth is it feasible to try and get channels from CT. or elsewhere?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/20679876
> 
> 
> I have a DVD burner with a atsc tuner. Subchannels 101/102 drive my DVD burner crazy. The entire unit locks up if I tune to those channels. My work around is to delete those channels from my lineup after I've done a channel scan.



DTVpal does not allow that. You have to wait till it puts it in the lineup


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/20680953
> 
> 
> I am extremely close (half mile) to the ESB. I am in apt building facing north. I have the Terk HDTVa which I keep near the window but with the uhf part pointed towards wall in direction of ESB.
> 
> 
> People have suggested not to use the preamp that is included with the HDTVa since I am so close but I find if I do not use it my reception is worse.
> 
> 
> I am using WMC and I just ran the signal strength and it seems to be excellent on almost all the channels I am expected to get. Also get clear qam from TWC (only basic - no box) on another tuner so for many channels I have duplicate sources.
> 
> 
> RTV sometimes has pixelation. I tried to get 32.1 as someone posted earlier but nothing.
> 
> 
> In my situation, with my antenna, is it even worth is it feasible to try and get channels from CT. or elsewhere?



you can try to lock on to other frequencies like 23 26 35 43 they all show the same, with retrotv you can try moving your antenna perpindicular to direction of signal, that seems to work for me. ct stations you can aim your antenna due northeast, wtnh ch 10 is pretty easy to get also 49 both their signals are strong here 50 miles away. you mention that you are using your preamp, i'm sure that its helping tame multipath in your situatiion.


----------



## fredd

Here in central NJ I lost every NYC station except CBS-2 last night from about 9PM to 10:30. Anyone know if there were transmitter problems or local storms?


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20681881
> 
> 
> you can try to lock on to other frequencies like 23 26 35 43 they all show the same, with retrotv you can try moving your antenna perpindicular to direction of signal, that seems to work for me. ct stations you can aim your antenna due northeast, wtnh ch 10 is pretty easy to get also 49 both their signals are strong here 50 miles away. you mention that you are using your preamp, i'm sure that its helping tame multipath in your situatiion.



Frequency

23 will give me Mexicanal, 26 - WRNN, 35 infomercials?


----------



## jam-h

Hi,


Gonna replace an old antenna, and for a couple of years NYC outer boro VHF/UHF Antenna recommendations seem to be to get either the Winegard HD7694P or Antennacraft HBU-22.


Structurally, it looks like the HD7694P has a 75 ohm only "box", while the HBU-22 is 300 ohm native and uses an outdoor balun. The specs list the HBU-22 as having the same max width, boom 5% longer, and 2X the vertical height (corner reflector difference?), compared with the HD7694P.


(I never quite got whether the HBU-22 was given extra points because it was once - but no longer is - available at local Radio Shacks.)


Anyone with real-word experience with these models see a functional difference for the major ESB stations (RF channel range 28-44)? This would be a roof mount, 20 ft above ground, 10 miles from ESB. I'm told there was some occasional minor ghosting visible from this location in the analog days (only VHF was viewed).


Thanks for any comments.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/20682203
> 
> 
> Frequency
> 
> 23 will give me Mexicanal, 26 - WRNN, 35 infomercials?



sorry I meant ch26 is wrnn but show the same programming as other channels


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jam-h* /forum/post/20687977
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Gonna replace an old antenna, and for a couple of years NYC outer boro VHF/UHF Antenna recommendations seem to be to get either the Winegard HD7694P or Antennacraft HBU-22.
> 
> 
> Structurally, it looks like the HD7694P has a 75 ohm only "box", while the HBU-22 is 300 ohm native and uses an outdoor balun. The specs list the HBU-22 as having the same max width, boom 5% longer, and 2X the vertical height (corner reflector difference?), compared with the HD7694P.
> 
> 
> (I never quite got whether the HBU-22 was given extra points because it was once - but no longer is - available at local Radio Shacks.)
> 
> 
> Anyone with real-word experience with these models see a functional difference for the major ESB stations (RF channel range 28-44)? This would be a roof mount, 20 ft above ground, 10 miles from ESB. I'm told there was some occasional minor ghosting visible from this location in the analog days (only VHF was viewed).
> 
> 
> Thanks for any comments.



no real world experience with those antennas but I have a winegard ya1713 vhf antenna I can tell you that is solid built antenna.


----------



## icemannyr

I noticed today that the video on WNBC-DT 4.2 is 16:9 SD.

When did they change it?

It makes sense since just about all of the programming is 16:9.

WABC should do the same with 7.2 and get rid of 7.3.


----------



## nycdigital09

icemann do you get wkob retrotv? I asked cos their signal is much stronger in manhattan than other boros their signal might still come thru with indoor antenna. btw maverick is your wingman jk


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed today that the video on WNBC-DT 4.2 is 16:9 SD.
> 
> When did they change it?
> 
> It makes sense since just about all of the programming is 16:9.
> 
> WABC should do the same with 7.2 and get rid of 7.3.



ABC will not get rid of 7.3. Even though it's a SD simulcast of 7.2, it has carriage in every cable system in the metro area so every customer including basic customers with an SD box can see it whereas only customers with HD box or tv was able to see 7.2. If anything the content on 7.3 may change down the road but ABC folks are really behind this Live Well crap.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20690815
> 
> 
> ABC will not get rid of 7.3. Even though it's a SD simulcast of 7.2, it has carriage in every cable system in the metro area so every customer including basic customers with an SD box can see it whereas only customers with HD box or tv was able to see 7.2. If anything the content on 7.3 may change down the road but ABC folks are really behind this Live Well crap.



any thoughts on what cbs will be have as programming on their subs come september


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> any thoughts on what cbs will be have as programming on their subs come september



probably nothing worth watching


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20690896
> 
> 
> any thoughts on what cbs will be have as programming on their subs come september



How do you know it is in SEPT? I read only 3rd quarter.


Any new links on info?



BTW are you not getting my pms?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20691981
> 
> 
> How do you know it is in SEPT? I read only 3rd quarter.
> 
> 3rd qtr is usually september
> 
> Any new links on info?
> 
> not sure
> 
> 
> BTW are you not getting my pms?



thats funny you said that, i found out that under preferences I had messages off


----------



## jmsnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20691981
> 
> 
> BTW are you not getting my pms?



Sorry, I also thought it was funny for different reason - I do not think pms is contagious so of course he didnt get it - unless its that time of the month


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmsnyc* /forum/post/20692442
> 
> 
> Sorry, I also thought it was funny for different reason - I do not think pms is contagious so of course he didnt get it - unless its that time of the month



jim to quote ralph k, your riot, a regular riot. one of these youre gonna get yours. right on the kisser.


----------



## nycdigital09

keyboard, is it that time of the month for ya. jk


----------



## raj2001

Anyone still receiving WNJJ-LD 41?


If it's offline, apparently nobody cares, it's been off for about 2 weeks or so...


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20692404
> 
> 
> thats funny you said that, i found out that under preferences I had messages off



BIG meanie lol


----------



## nycdigital09

raj is that the channel that has shopping networks 24/7 ? If it is, I get alltime, 41-2 has blue screen that says error decoding!! raj I want to ask a grounding question, I never ground my antennas, I want to know if is okay to attach grounding wire to a cold water pipe thats outdoors. the epa came around here and I asked them that they said sure, but I know the piple goes into garage from there don't know, let me know what are my options, its difficult to ground antenna around here there is no grass, dirt, only pavement so you what I'm having a tough time lol how are triplets and mom doing.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> raj is that the channel that has shopping networks 24/7 ? If it is, I get alltime, 41-2 has blue screen that says error decoding!! raj I want to ask a grounding question, I never ground my antennas, I want to know if is okay to attach grounding wire to a cold water pipe thats outdoors. the epa came around here and I asked them that they said sure, but I know the piple goes into garage from there don't know, let me know what are my options, its difficult to ground antenna around here there is no grass, dirt, only pavement so you what I'm having a tough time lol how are triplets and mom doing.



Why not ground to a solid electrical conduit (if available). That's what cable and satellite installers do. Cold water is an option but not preferred.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey nycdigital09,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20703183
> 
> 
> raj is that the channel that has shopping networks 24/7 ? If it is, I get alltime, 41-2 has blue screen that says error decoding!!



BOTH low power channel 41s carry shopping networks. But the channel 41 you are receiving is W41DO-D New York, the digital replacement for W60AI. I can only receive this with a trace non-decodable signal. But SD has captured the images of the station and the actual text in the blue box reads, "Video Lock Error" and below that is the call-sign "W41DO-D" which scrolls. This signal problem only exists with 41-2 which typically carries HSN2. 41-1 is operating normally carrying HSN.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20703183
> 
> 
> raj I want to ask a grounding question, I never ground my antennas, I want to know if is okay to attach grounding wire to a cold water pipe thats outdoors. the epa came around here and I asked them that they said sure, but I know the piple goes into garage from there don't know, let me know what are my options, its difficult to ground antenna around here there is no grass, dirt, only pavement so you what I'm having a tough time



You SHOULD ground any rooftop antenna which is outside. If it is inside, it is protected from the elements, especially lightning, so you don't have to.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20704764
> 
> 
> Hey nycdigital09,
> 
> 
> BOTH low power channel 41s carry shopping networks. But the channel 41 you are receiving is W41DO-D New York, the digital replacement for W60AI. I can only receive this with a trace non-decodable signal. But SD has captured the images of the station and the actual text in the blue box reads, "Video Lock Error" and below that is the call-sign "W41DO-D" which scrolls. This signal problem only exists with 41-2 which typically carries HSN2. 41-1 is operating normally carrying HSN.
> 
> 
> You SHOULD ground any rooftop antenna which is outside. If it is inside, it is protected from the elements, especially lightning, so you don't have to.



ok, went to tvfool.com says that wnjj-ld 41 they're signal is too weak here, I do get w41do like giacomo said. friday night was decent tropo ducting. received wtby ch54 religious channel with signal at 90% also got wcct ch20 a wb station, they need to raise the volume, wtnh abc affiliate is coming in with 5.1 dolby. which is about time they caught up


----------



## nycdigital09

my tvfool report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e3b257fe7d65a6 I pretty much get everything to down to where it changes to pink on bottom of page, some of them i do get late at night or tropo enhancement.


----------



## tjeremiah

Hi, I live in the NYC area and just discovered this thread and I thought i'd drop some info.


I dont know if this was mentioned already but I did a recent scan and noticed that ION has set up shop on channel 12.1-12.2- and 12.3. They are working channels but I can barely get a decent signal to see what content is being pushed (picture shows up for 1sec. then cuts off). Though I am able to view for 1 second, I think that on 12.1, ION is broadcasting something different at this time while on 31.1 (their original ch.), its an infomercial. I hope to get a better signal to see whats going on. Logically, I would think its the same thing. Overall, im glad ION is moving closer because I am starting to like their content, especially the weekend movies.


Also, I fount a channel called 10/55 on channel 45.3. This channel is in SD and appears to broadcast dr.phil, wheeloffortune type of shows.


Whats strange is that next door to it, theres a channel listed as 45.13 (







) that appears to be working with a signal strength of 53 % but the screen remains black.


The antenna that im using is that 3yr old square box shapped RCA indoor antenna







and I am apparently 8.4 miles away from the empire state building.


----------



## tjeremiah

also, for those that are concerned about CBS introducing sub channels soon, I wouldnt worry because NBC 4 does the same yet their NFL games still look and sound great.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* 
Hi, I live in the NYC area and just discovered this thread and I thought i'd drop some info.


I dont know if this was mentioned already but I did a recent scan and noticed that ION has set up shop on channel 12.1-12.2- and 12.3. They are working channels but I can barely get a decent signal to see what content is being pushed (picture shows up for 1sec. then cuts off). Though I am able to view for 1 second, I think that on 12.1, ION is broadcasting something different at this time while on 31.1 (their original ch.), its an infomercial. I hope to get a better signal to see whats going on. Logically, I would think its the same thing. Overall, im glad ION is moving closer because I am starting to like their content, especially the weekend movies.


Also, I fount a channel called 10/55 on channel 45.3. This channel is in SD and appears to broadcast dr.phil, wheeloffortune type of shows.


Whats strange is that next door to it, theres a channel listed as 45.13 (







) that appears to be working with a signal strength of 53 % but the screen remains black.


The antenna that im using is that 3yr old square box shapped RCA indoor antenna







and I am apparently 8.4 miles away from the empire state building.
Quote:

Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* 
also, for those that are concerned about CBS introducing sub channels soon, I wouldnt worry because NBC 4 does the same yet their NFL games still look and sound great.
jeremiah was a bullfrog, he was a friend of mine, he had mighty finw wine. just kiddin around. ION 31.1 shows the same programming on their repeater 12.1 I do get both channels actually 12.1 comes in way better, theyre signal is aimed northeast of esb, exactly where i am now.


cbs upcoming subchannel has not been announced what they gonna have, but witnessing what abc and nbc has on their sub, is a safe bet that they will show similar programming.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20714659
> 
> 
> jeremiah welcome to nyc ota forum, i want to explain that ION 31.1 shows the same programming on their repeater 12.1 is not any different I get both channels actually 12.1 comes in better, theyre signal is aimed northeast of esb, exactly where i am now.
> 
> 
> cbs upcoming subchannel has not been announced what they gonna have, but witnessing what abc and nbc has on their sub, is a safe bet that they will show similar programming.



The article I posted a way back. Stated that CBS wanted better stuff that was available currently.


It will be a mix of news, sports and other stuff.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* /forum/post/20714503
> 
> 
> also, for those that are concerned about CBS introducing sub channels soon, I wouldnt worry because NBC 4 does the same yet their NFL games still look and sound great.



Take a look at WPIX with their signal split 4 ways and tell us if they still look good.


----------



## rcodey

NBC 4 games don't look that good in HD.


----------



## sesnut

anyone have a problem receiving cbs tonight?


my hdhomerun was showing 85% signal strength but 0 signal quality


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20716862
> 
> 
> Take a look at WPIX with their signal split 4 ways and tell us if they still look good.



I know its supposed to be not so good because of the 3 subchannels but the reality is it is still better than a lot of other channels. For example, compare the 10 PM news between 5.1 and 11.1. The PQ on 11.1 is way better. Also compare the Mets games on 11.1 and Fox Sat baseball on 5.1. The PQ on 11.1 is better.


Perhaps my eyes are failing me but the lose in PQ because of the 3 subchannels must be very subtle. I just don't see it as a very significant issue if an issue at all.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* /forum/post/20714503
> 
> 
> also, for those that are concerned about CBS introducing sub channels soon, I wouldnt worry because NBC 4 does the same yet their NFL games still look and sound great.



While I would like to get the best picture possible I think this issue about subchannels reducing picture quality on the main channel is much to do about nothing. The difference in PQ is so small that I can't even notice it. In fact I bet other factors like the quality of the studio cameras and the transmission signal strength are more important issues. 11.1 has 3 subchannels and its picture quality is much better than 9.1 or 5.1 and as good as 4.1 and 2.1 from what my eyes see. It seems to me some people are sending us HD programming and using low Def cameras and not spending big bucks for the best equipment.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20717491
> 
> 
> I know its supposed to be not so good because of the 3 subchannels but the reality is it is still better than a lot of other channels. For example, compare the 10 PM news between 5.1 and 11.1. The PQ on 11.1 is way better. Also compare the Mets games on 11.1 and Fox Sat baseball on 5.1. The PQ on 11.1 is better.
> 
> 
> Perhaps my eyes are failing me but the lose in PQ because of the 3 subchannels must be very subtle. I just don't see it as a very significant issue if an issue at all.



To me since Fox is 720P, PIX almost always looks better in 1080i.


However in comparing Met games, SNY always looks better than games on PIX.


Now as far as NFL games on CBS, I find that the OTA broadcast is slightly better than on Cable. Probably because CBS has no subs. NBC is not too bad, but not as good as CBS.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20717529
> 
> 
> To me since Fox is 720P, PIX almost always looks better in 1080i.
> 
> 
> However in comparing Met games, SNY always looks better than games on PIX.
> 
> 
> Now as far as NFL games on CBS, I find that the OTA broadcast is slightly better than on Cable. Probably because CBS has no subs. NBC is not too bad, but not as good as CBS.



agree for the most part as far pq goes I watch most ny sports on 46 sony bravia lcd. mikepier is right, cbs pq is best followed nbc, then fox5. fox5 newscast is way better than pix pixs hd sucks imho is degraded by subs is clearly visible. the best hd channel that is noticeable is wnet ch13 even with their 2 subs.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I know its supposed to be not so good because of the 3 subchannels but the reality is it is still better than a lot of other channels. For example, compare the 10 PM news between 5.1 and 11.1. The PQ on 11.1 is way better. Also compare the Mets games on 11.1 and Fox Sat baseball on 5.1. The PQ on 11.1 is better.
> 
> 
> Perhaps my eyes are failing me but the lose in PQ because of the 3 subchannels must be very subtle. I just don't see it as a very significant issue if an issue at all.



PIX11 has the absolute worse picture. Their channel is unwatchable especially on transitions even during the news. Bitrate for the main HD channel fluctuates between 3 and 10mbps depending on content.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sesnut* /forum/post/20716986
> 
> 
> anyone have a problem receiving cbs tonight?
> 
> 
> my hdhomerun was showing 85% signal strength but 0 signal quality



I checked it tonight and 3 anntennas had reception way down from the usual 90% plus! two were in the 70's and the one that usually receives in the mid to upper 90s was in the mid 80s.


Something is going on with their transmission or it is tropo issues. Other stations were fine.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20717779
> 
> 
> PIX11 has the absolute worse picture. Their channel is unwatchable especially on transitions even during the news. Bitrate for the main HD channel fluctuates between 3 and 10mbps depending on content.



I'm not seeing the issue you are describing at all.


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PIX11 has the absolute worse picture. Their channel is unwatchable especially on transitions even during the news. Bitrate for the main HD channel fluctuates between 3 and 10mbps depending on content.



During their primetime coverage, some of their picture, especially when theres heavy action going on , the picture becomes very pixelated (noticeable little boxes popping up that break up the picture a little), but the sound quality on CW I think is great and makes up for the visual lost of the channel.


Every pop, explosion really stands out on CW from what I noticed.


----------



## tjeremiah

I dont know if this is the right place to post this but as already stated, I live approx. 8 miles away from the Empire State Building here in NYC and I use the 3yr old RCA flat indoor non amp. antenna as my main antenna. I also live on the top floor of my building which is floor number 4. For the 3 yrs now, no matter where I move the antenna, from the window to on top of the TV, I can never get a signal strength greater than 60%. I'm still able to get 50+ channels and a picture.


My promblem is that, whenever an airplane goes over the house or when the wind blows very strongly , my picture breaks up. Why is that and how do I stop this from occurring?


The other day I fount and plugged in an old VHF/UHF amp. antenna that magically boost the signal strength to 90% but the problem of picture breakup still occurs.


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20716862
> 
> 
> Take a look at WPIX with their signal split 4 ways and tell us if they still look good.



but i dont think CBS will go with 4 other subs. One here said NBC football games dont look good in HD, I disagree. I think their picture is great and clear even though they have 2 other sub channels. I wouldnt worry about CBS lossing a bunch of quality when they do go sub.


And maybe they wont even bother with subs. They said they plan on releasing during Q3. Well Q3 ends in the coming weeks and up to now no subs.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm going to be in New Jersey for an interview overnight Monday night-Tuesday morning, though in a different place than normal. I'm going to be trying in particular to get updated TSReader data for WKOB-LD, WLNY-CD, and W41DO-D. I'm also going to shoot for WLNY's main signal, but that would be via DX. I'm also going to look for the identical siblings (26/32/35/whatever) if they're on the air and WBQM-LD 3/WPXO-LD 34 though I don't expect to have luck with them.


Anything else I should look for while I'm in the area?


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20722607
> 
> 
> I'm going to be in New Jersey for an interview overnight Monday night-Tuesday morning, though in a different place than normal. I'm going to be trying in particular to get updated TSReader data for WKOB-LD, WLNY-CD, and W41DO-D. I'm also going to shoot for WLNY's main signal, but that would be via DX. I'm also going to look for the identical siblings (26/32/35/whatever) if they're on the air and WBQM-LD 3/WPXO-LD 34 though I don't expect to have luck with them.
> 
> 
> Anything else I should look for while I'm in the area?
> 
> 
> - Trip



I'm more interested in your FTA feature that you mentioned on your site. I'm thinking about making it a spring project and there is so much, non consolidated information out there that is not friendly to beginners as you experienced with those FTA forums.


as with my last springs project, going OTA only, i want to try FTA...just because i can


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20722668
> 
> 
> I'm more interested in your FTA feature that you mentioned on your site. I'm thinking about making it a spring project and there is so much, non consolidated information out there that is not friendly to beginners as you experienced with those FTA forums.
> 
> 
> as with my last springs project, going OTA only, i want to try FTA...just because i can



Hehe, sounds good. I'm going to PM you with a link to what I have so far.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

"One here said NBC football games dont look good in HD, I disagree. I think their picture is great and clear even though they have 2 other sub channels. I wouldnt worry about CBS lossing a bunch of quality when they do go sub."


It depends upon how good your HDTV receiver is and how discerning you are as a viewer. As a professional in the business, CBS clearly outshines NBC! It's a pity that CBS is succumbing and will be degrading its gorgeous pictures to transmit programming, more than likely of questionable appeal!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20722768
> 
> 
> Hehe, sounds good. I'm going to PM you with a link to what I have so far.
> 
> 
> - Trip



WHat is FTA?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20722079
> 
> 
> I checked it tonight and 3 anntennas had reception way down from the usual 90% plus! two were in the 70's and the one that usually receives in the mid to upper 90s was in the mid 80s.
> 
> 
> Something is going on with their transmission or it is tropo issues. Other stations were fine.



could not receive most of my stations, the nyc station technician must of being screwing with us last night, here is my theory we experienced a time warp that rips into the fabric of time and space. that has opposite effect of tropo ducting. sort of dead zone effect


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20723683
> 
> 
> WHat is FTA?


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-air#North_America 


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20723683
> 
> 
> WHat is FTA?



Keyboard I have muttered that many times! FTA = F##k That Antenna! At least at my location that is the definition!


----------



## AloEuro

Well said - you have good sense of humor


----------



## AloEuro

One of my converter box for 2-1ch.CBS gives me reading as 2-2 of all what is 2-1 as 2-2, punch in 2-1 it gives black screen 0-15, 0-15 signal.

Another converter box gives regular 2-1 reading.


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20726966
> 
> 
> Keyboard I have muttered that many times! FTA = F##k That Antenna! At least at my location that is the definition!



Back when I was in the Army 30 something years ago, it meant something else...


----------



## T-Max

Any OTA Yankee fans out there that noticed what I saw this evening? I had NO reception (to speak of) of MY9 from 7 pm to sometime approximately 8 pm to 8:30 pm. Then, from 8:30 on (and it's 9+ pm by the time I finish this) I have SOLID MY9 reception.


My reception of 7, 11, 13 was reasonable at all times, although it does seem they all picked up at least a bit. But MY9 REALLY picked up.


I'm on the edge of NYC reception, but I get 7 @ 92% (which is great) and 11 and 13 at about 84-85% for the most part. I get mostly solid reception at 84% and very solid reception @ 85% and above. I also get 4 and 2 just fine. I can't get 5.1 at all. That's the weakest of the bunch for me (although I get 5.2 at the same level and RF as MY9).


I only watch MY9 for Yankee games, and I often have some problems. But tonight it was just silly. I got nothing until it kicked in sometime between 8 and 8:30.


I'm thinking their usually lousy signal had an additional problem tonight, and they finally got it corrected.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20729566
> 
> 
> Any OTA Yankee fans out there that noticed what I saw this evening? I had NO reception (to speak of) of MY9 from 7 pm to sometime approximately 8 pm to 8:30 pm. Then, from 8:30 on (and it's 9+ pm by the time I finish this) I have SOLID MY9 reception.
> 
> 
> My reception of 7, 11, 13 was reasonable at all times, although it does seem they all picked up at least a bit. But MY9 REALLY picked up.
> 
> 
> I'm on the edge of NYC reception, but I get 7 @ 92% (which is great) and 11 and 13 at about 84-85% for the most part. I get mostly solid reception at 84% and very solid reception @ 85% and above. I also get 4 and 2 just fine. I can't get 5.1 at all. That's the weakest of the bunch for me (although I get 5.2 at the same level and RF as MY9).
> 
> 
> I only watch MY9 for Yankee games, and I often have some problems. But tonight it was just silly. I got nothing until it kicked in sometime between 8 and 8:30.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking their usually lousy signal had an additional problem tonight, and they finally got it corrected.



t max i been watchin the game no hiccups here so far, but the same thing youre talking about happened to me last week i was watching a pbs program around 8:30 evening and the darn picture just blink out and did not show up for hour or so. I get a gut feeling that fcc is behind this, they purposedly gave us digital, knowing it has lots of flaws. this way they can tell public that ota is problematic, so they can sell the ota spectrum, and nobody will mind.


ps T-max, just remembered i was watchin the game on directv not trhu antenna - sorry.


----------



## nycdigital09

I put up a uhf yagi antenna 91xg on my roof a few weeks back to be able to pickup wnjn ch 50 mostly cos i have severe multipath to little falls,nj I guess it was good while it lasted I was finally receiving their signal, very low but receivable, then wnjn had to dissolve, if that was not bad enough, for past few days i was not able to tune in their signal, i thought it was kind of odd, until i went to roof and glanced over in the direction of njtv, there is excessive amount of tree folliage in direct path to their signal, looks like a forest, the thing is I can't do crap about its across the street in private area, wish i could take that chainsaw to those pesky trees.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20729566
> 
> 
> Any OTA Yankee fans out there that noticed what I saw this evening? I had NO reception (to speak of) of MY9 from 7 pm to sometime approximately 8 pm to 8:30 pm. Then, from 8:30 on (and it's 9+ pm by the time I finish this) I have SOLID MY9 reception.
> 
> 
> My reception of 7, 11, 13 was reasonable at all times, although it does seem they all picked up at least a bit. But MY9 REALLY picked up.
> 
> 
> I'm on the edge of NYC reception, but I get 7 @ 92% (which is great) and 11 and 13 at about 84-85% for the most part. I get mostly solid reception at 84% and very solid reception @ 85% and above. I also get 4 and 2 just fine. I can't get 5.1 at all. That's the weakest of the bunch for me (although I get 5.2 at the same level and RF as MY9).
> 
> 
> I only watch MY9 for Yankee games, and I often have some problems. But tonight it was just silly. I got nothing until it kicked in sometime between 8 and 8:30.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking their usually lousy signal had an additional problem tonight, and they finally got it corrected.



Just watched the game as I recorded it on my PALDVR and there was NO issues with reception. It was perfect.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20731839
> 
> 
> Just watched the game as I recorded it on my PALDVR and there was NO issues with reception. It was perfect.



Thanks for the feedback. This morning's 1:35 AM recording session on 7.1 was fine until 1:57 when I completely lost signal. Same with 11, 13, MY9 (I didn't check the others). I'm now thinking it's either a general "brownout" problem with NYC stations or a weather-related thing. Whatever it is, I'm not very happy about it. I was actually awake and watching for a half hour before recording started and right up until I lost signal and reception was rock solid all that time until "poof" -- nothing.


It's VERY irritating.


I trust you were talking about your OTA reception?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. This morning's 1:35 AM recording session on 7.1 was fine until 1:57 when I completely lost signal. Same with 11, 13, MY9 (I didn't check the others). I'm now thinking it's either a general "brownout" problem with NYC stations or a weather-related thing. Whatever it is, I'm not very happy about it. I was actually awake and watching for a half hour before recording started and right up until I lost signal and reception was rock solid all that time until "poof" -- nothing.
> 
> 
> It's VERY irritating.
> 
> 
> I trust you were talking about your OTA reception?



Sunday night going into Monday morning is generally the least viewed time in tv and may have been a planned or emergency maintenance at ESB.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20738207
> 
> 
> Sunday night going into Monday morning is generally the least viewed time in tv and may have been a planned or emergency maintenance at ESB.



Well, something was going on because my reception as of when I posted that last post was: 7 = 91%; 11 = 84%; 13 = 84%; 9 = 84%. All were solid except for 13 which dropped down to 83% momentarily. That's still good enough reception, however.


I should have included that info in my last post.


And there are T-storms (and a LOT of them) closing in on me right now. At 2 AM this morning there was one minor cell that was not even yet to Harrisburg and petering out.


So it wasn't T-storm activity.


I suppose it could be what you say, or it could be brownout activity @ ESB (??)


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, something was going on because my reception as of when I posted that last post was: 7 = 91%; 11 = 84%; 13 = 84%; 9 = 84%. All were solid except for 13 which dropped down to 83% momentarily. That's still good enough reception, however.
> 
> 
> I should have included that info in my last post.
> 
> 
> And there are T-storms (and a LOT of them) closing in on me right now. At 2 AM this morning there was one minor cell that was not even yet to Harrisburg and petering out.
> 
> 
> So it wasn't T-storm activity.
> 
> 
> I suppose it could be what you say, or it could be brownout activity @ ESB (??)



Brownouts/blackouts typically occur during peak usage times (afternoon). It is not unusual for stations to go dark between 1-5am for maintenance. Most cable systems and satellite providers have direct fiber feeds so viewers on those don't lose service.


----------



## SnellKrell

The middle of the night is the only time for maintenance, construction and deconstruction.


There are tourists to contend with visiting the 86th and 102nd floor observatories, with tours operating on a daily basis - 8 a.m. to 2 a.m.


----------



## kickass69

Spectrum plan could shut down TV stations, says trade group

http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...?taxonomyId=16 


"The NAB's report, released Monday, assumes that the FCC would attempt to recover 120MHz of contiguous spectrum, from channels 31 to 51."


"Eleven of New York City's 23 full-power TV stations would likely go off the air under the FCC plan, the NAB report said."


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20737637
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. This morning's 1:35 AM recording session on 7.1 was fine until 1:57 when I completely lost signal. Same with 11, 13, MY9 (I didn't check the others). I'm now thinking it's either a general "brownout" problem with NYC stations or a weather-related thing. Whatever it is, I'm not very happy about it. I was actually awake and watching for a half hour before recording started and right up until I lost signal and reception was rock solid all that time until "poof" -- nothing.
> 
> 
> It's VERY irritating.
> 
> 
> I trust you were talking about your OTA reception?



I only have OTA. Been that way since the analog to digital conversion. Since my reception was fine and yours was bad it must have been isolated to your location or direction from the transmitters.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20741929
> 
> 
> I only have OTA. Been that way since the analog to digital conversion. Since my reception was fine and yours was bad it must have been isolated to your location or direction from the transmitters.



Thanks again for the feedback. It's very interesting that you had perfect reception in Randolph. We are about the same distance away but in different directions. And I have a ridge that partially blocks me, which I think is my main problem. Looking at the TV Fool coverage map -

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...wor%26type%3dD 


I must be in that iffy blue/purple area just outside the green area which Somerville is either in or just on the edge of. You should blow that map up one click to see it better.


Right at this moment I have pretty good MY9 reception. It's a pretty solid 84% and jumps up occasionally to 85. A solid 84 gives me pretty much solid reception even if it drops down to 83 momentarily, but 83 would not be good reception. A solid 85 is very solid reception with basically no issues.


So you can see that I'm right on the edge.


We'll see how it is later on during the ballgame tonite. If it's as good as it is now I'll be fine. But I doubt it will be. I usually see it get worse in the evening, tho' I certainly don't know why that is.


In any event, if you are OTA and had no issues during Friday night's ballgame, it couldn't have been a problem with MY9's signal unless your reception is strong enough to overcome some minor reduction in the signal strength due to who-knows-what. For me, however, any loss of signal strength does me in. I have a feeling that I'm particularly susceptible to atmospheric conditions due to my particular location near the ridge. I may be getting some of my signal from reflection off the troposphere, or whatever it is that does that thing.


I also note that there's a construction permit for Antenna ID No.: 90507.

http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WWOR-TV 


What's that about and is that gonna help me out at all?


Trip?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20741929
> 
> 
> I only have OTA. Been that way since the analog to digital conversion. Since my reception was fine and yours was bad it must have been isolated to your location or direction from the transmitters.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20742413
> 
> 
> ...I must be in that iffy blue/purple area just outside the green area which Somerville is either in or just on the edge of. You should blow that map up one click to see it better....



Now we're getting somewhere!


I'm looking more closely at that TV Fool coverage map and I think I see my exact problem. If you blow that map up a bit you will be able to see the intersection of Route 78 with Route 287.


Blowing it up 2 clicks makes it pretty clear.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...wor%26type%3dD 


I'm located a few miles south of that intersection, between that intersection and Somerville. And not that far east of 287. As my signature sez, I'm near the Bridgewater Commons Mall, if yer familiar.


That puts me right in that purple "fork"-like shape (with the blue between the tines). I might be in the purple or I might be in the blue. But either way it's not good.


A little farther south, like in Manville, they've probably got pretty good reception. They are in the green.


Now, it looks like where you are, up in Randolph, you don't have such good reception either. You appear to have purple and blue much the same as I have. Do you have any ideas as to why you have such good MY9 reception up there when the coverage map seems to indicate otherwise?


BTW, according to Google maps, Randolph is approx 41 miles east of the ESB, while I'm ~ 46 miles away.


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/20740688
> 
> 
> Spectrum plan could shut down TV stations, says trade group
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...?taxonomyId=16
> 
> 
> "The NAB's report, released Monday, assumes that the FCC would attempt to recover 120MHz of contiguous spectrum, from channels 31 to 51."
> 
> 
> "Eleven of New York City's 23 full-power TV stations would likely go off the air under the FCC plan, the NAB report said."



well, that sucks.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20742558
> 
> 
> Now we're getting somewhere!
> 
> 
> I'm looking more closely at that TV Fool coverage map and I think I see my exact problem. If you blow that map up a bit you will be able to see the intersection of Route 78 with Route 287.
> 
> 
> Blowing it up 2 clicks makes it pretty clear.
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...wor%26type%3dD
> 
> 
> I'm located a few miles south of that intersection, between that intersection and Somerville. And not that far east of 287. As my signature sez, I'm near the Bridgewater Commons Mall, if yer familiar.
> 
> 
> That puts me right in that purple "fork"-like shape (with the blue between the tines). I might be in the purple or I might be in the blue. But either way it's not good.
> 
> 
> A little farther south, like in Manville, they've probably got pretty good reception. They are in the green.
> 
> 
> Now, it looks like where you are, up in Randolph, you don't have such good reception either. You appear to have purple and blue much the same as I have. Do you have any ideas as to why you have such good MY9 reception up there when the coverage map seems to indicate otherwise?
> 
> 
> BTW, according to Google maps, Randolph is approx 41 miles east of the ESB, while I'm ~ 46 miles away.



T-max most of nyc digital stations are omnidirectional during day, but once the sun goes down, most change to directional beam aimed east, towards the outer boros. central new jersey are gonna get outer lobe of the signal, meaning that you're not getting full power (effective rediated power) towards your location, so youre channels are gonna coming weak. I just checked with rabbitears looks like wor9 is non directional so you;re good to go, one more thing did you try 9-2 their non hd sub, usually the sub are easier to get that the HD main channel, being that is less data being streamed. lots of luck there tmax, btw I was hitting some sites on jersey devil lore, lots of sightings are in your neck of woods.


----------



## tjeremiah

is anybody else pulling stations 45.11 - 45.12 - and 45.13? I just did a recent scan and these channels have popped up. Seem to be online but no content being shown as of right now. Im in the NYC area.


----------



## nycdigital09

keyboard I sent you a pm


----------



## keyboard21

thanks


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> keyboard I sent you a pm



this forum turning into a facebook wall


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20760631
> 
> 
> this forum turning into a facebook wall



what can we say, just we are jetsetters.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20761995
> 
> 
> what can we say, just we are jetsetters.



Still nothing no pm or email


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* /forum/post/20747670
> 
> 
> is anybody else pulling stations 45.11 - 45.12 - and 45.13? I just did a recent scan and these channels have popped up. Seem to be online but no content being shown as of right now. Im in the NYC area.



45-1 Sometime the next up/down shows 45-3 go next up to 47-1, go down and it goes to 45-1 the 45-3 is no more.

there is only one ch.45-1 with program 10/55


----------



## rcodey

According to an item on politickernj.com WNJM's(Ch. 50) transmitter is down.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcodey* /forum/post/20767588
> 
> 
> According to an item on politickernj.com WNJM's(Ch. 50) transmitter is down.



Here is the statement from NJTV:

*NJTV signal is down tonight due to a failed transmitter in Montclair, NJ* 


August 1, 2011 8:08 PM


At approximately 5:30 this evening the NJTV Transmitter in Montclair, NJ failed. We have dispatched our service engineers to the transmitter site.

We continue to monitor the situation and stay in communication with our engineers and will update everyone as soon as the signal is restored.


Some observations:


1. Last night, WNJN Montclair, channel 51, was off-the-air around 1AM. So this failure occurred over 12 hours from when NJTV first discovered it.

2. I have just checked (8-1-11 around 11PM) and WNJN is back on the air. I don't know what time the signal was restored.

3. I am surprised by the NJTV statement indicating WNET will be dispatching engineers because as I understood the arrangement, the State of New Jersey would maintain the transmitters while WNET would maintain the programming.

4. The AudioVision programming is back on the .3s. I first saw it on WNJB-TV two nights ago where the PSIP reads "AudioVi". WNJB-TV is not running a .2 sub-channel. Their .3 was also turned off after the transition on 7-1-11, but obviously it has now been restored. Tonight as I checked WNJN, AudioVision is back on there also with the same PSIP as WNJN has always had, "NJN-AV". WNJN is also running an empty carrier on its .2 sub-channel with no PSIP information.


I cannot confirm any programming matters or issues with respect to NJTV's southern New Jersey transmitters, WNJS-TV and WNJT-TV, as my location is well outside their coverage areas.


In other NJTV news, it was announced on July 26 that, "Respected New Jersey journalist, Michael Aron, a 29-year veteran of New Jersey Network, is joining the Foundation for New Jersey Public Broadcasting (FNJBP) as Vice President of News and Public Affairs.


NJTV also named Aron as its Chief Political Correspondent and announced that Aron will return as host and executive producer of his two well regarded and long-running public affairs television series, On The Record and Reporters Roundtable with Michael Aron. (Premiere dates and broadcast schedule will be announced soon). Aron will also contribute statehouse coverage to the NJTV-produced nightly broadcast “NJ Today” when it premieres in the fall."


Many skeptical NJTV viewers are very happy with his return to this new station which replaced NJN on which Aron contributed extensively to New Jersey political and statehouse coverage.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20768222
> 
> 
> Here is the statement from NJTV:
> 
> *NJTV signal is down tonight due to a failed transmitter in Montclair, NJ*
> 
> 
> August 1, 2011 8:08 PM
> 
> 
> At approximately 5:30 this evening the NJTV Transmitter in Montclair, NJ failed. We have dispatched our service engineers to the transmitter site.
> 
> We continue to monitor the situation and stay in communication with our engineers and will update everyone as soon as the signal is restored.
> 
> 
> Some observations:
> 
> 
> 1. Last night, WNJN Montclair, channel 51, was off-the-air around 1AM. So this failure occurred over 12 hours from when NJTV first discovered it.
> 
> 2. I have just checked (8-1-11 around 11PM) and WNJN is back on the air. I don't know what time the signal was restored.
> 
> 3. I am surprised by the NJTV statement indicating WNET will be dispatching engineers because as I understood the arrangement, the State of New Jersey would maintain the transmitters while WNET would maintain the programming.
> 
> 4. The AudioVision programming is back on the .3s. I first saw it on WNJB-TV two nights ago where the PSIP reads "AudioVi". WNJB-TV is not running a .2 sub-channel. Their .3 was also turned off after the transition on 7-1-11, but obviously it has now been restored. Tonight as I checked WNJN, AudioVision is back on there also with the same PSIP as WNJN has always had, "NJN-AV". WNJN is also running an empty carrier on its .2 sub-channel with no PSIP information.
> 
> 
> I cannot confirm any programming matters or issues with respect to NJTV's southern New Jersey transmitters, WNJS-TV and WNJT-TV, as my location is well outside their coverage areas.
> 
> 
> In other NJTV news, it was announced on July 26 that, "Respected New Jersey journalist, Michael Aron, a 29-year veteran of New Jersey Network, is joining the Foundation for New Jersey Public Broadcasting (FNJBP) as Vice President of News and Public Affairs.
> 
> 
> NJTV also named Aron as its Chief Political Correspondent and announced that Aron will return as host and executive producer of his two well regarded and long-running public affairs television series, On The Record and Reporters Roundtable with Michael Aron. (Premiere dates and broadcast schedule will be announced soon). Aron will also contribute statehouse coverage to the NJTV-produced nightly broadcast NJ Today when it premieres in the fall."
> 
> 
> Many skeptical NJTV viewers are very happy with his return to this new station which replaced NJN on which Aron contributed extensively to New Jersey political and statehouse coverage.



let's face it realistically, njtv is not as good as njn was. I use to watch some of their produced shows like the one on the pine barrens. with wnet taking control and their monopoly ways, it will be a cold day in hell when they repeat again.


----------



## nyctveng

Too soon to judge NJTV. Give it time before u say it sucks or its great.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20769844
> 
> 
> Too soon to judge NJTV. Give it time before u say it sucks or its great.



I agree. I will reserve judgement till Oct.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

In other New York City area DTV news, WRNN-TV Kingston, channel 48, has altered its sub-channel offerings.


On July 1, 2011, the station added a fourth sub-channel, "WRNN-D4" for the first time. *GCN*, the Christian religious broadcaster whose programming is seen 24/7 over the primary channel of WEBR-CD Manhattan, had announced they were expanding their coverage area by entering into an LMA with WRNN L.P., and the result was their programming would be seen 24/7 over channel 48-4. This agreement has apparently fallen through after one month.


Effective August 1, 2011, channel 48-4 is carrying *Suroyo TV*, an Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac satellite television channel which broadcasts from their studios in Södertälje, Sweden. Suroyo TV features programming for the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people and their cultural heritage, history and language. Currently, it has a wide-range of programs ranging from programs designed for children, political and cultural debates to sports programs, from historical documentaries to religious and national events and from film reviews to musical (Syriac songs with video clips) and educational programs. Further, with its daily news programs that are broadcast in Syriac (eastern and western dialects) as well as in Arabic, it is an alternative news channel that is serving the members of the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac community that are scattered all around the world.


WRNN-TV has also dropped *Mega TV* from 48-2. The eclectic spanish TV station had featured a television simulcast of WSKQ-FM New York's "El Vacilón de la Manana" morning show, heard weekdays over 97.9FM. Replacing it, also effective August 1, is *Al Jazeera English*, the world's first English-language news channel headquartered in the Middle East which broadcasts news features and analysis, documentaries, live debates, current affairs, business, technology, and sports. Al Jazeera English will air 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. WRNN will program one hour per day with local programming. That local program will likely be a rebroadcast of "Richard French Live", a news/political affairs program hosted by the station owner.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20771537
> 
> 
> In other New York City area DTV news, WRNN-TV Kingston, channel 48, has altered its sub-channel offerings.
> 
> 
> On July 1, 2011, the station added a fourth sub-channel, "WRNN-D4" for the first time. *GCN*, the Christian religious broadcaster whose programming is seen 24/7 over the primary channel of WEBR-CD Manhattan, had announced they were expanding their coverage area by entering into an LMA with WRNN L.P., and the result was their programming would be seen 24/7 over channel 48-4. This agreement has apparently fallen through after one month.
> 
> 
> Effective August 1, 2011, channel 48-4 is carrying *Suroyo TV*, an Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac satellite television channel which broadcasts from their studios in Södertälje, Sweden. Suroyo TV features programming for the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people and their cultural heritage, history and language. Currently, it has a wide-range of programs ranging from programs designed for children, political and cultural debates to sports programs, from historical documentaries to religious and national events and from film reviews to musical (Syriac songs with video clips) and educational programs. Further, with its daily news programs that are broadcast in Syriac (eastern and western dialects) as well as in Arabic, it is an alternative news channel that is serving the members of the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac community that are scattered all around the world.
> 
> 
> WRNN-TV has also dropped *Mega TV* from 48-2. The eclectic spanish TV station had featured a television simulcast of WSKQ-FM New York's "El Vacilón de la Manana" morning show, heard weekdays over 97.9FM. Replacing it, also effective August 1, is *Al Jazeera English*, the world's first English-language news channel headquartered in the Middle East which broadcasts news features and analysis, documentaries, live debates, current affairs, business, technology, and sports. Al Jazeera English will air 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. WRNN will program one hour per day with local programming. That local program will likely be a rebroadcast of "Richard French Live", a news/political affairs program hosted by the station owner.



thanks for update gio, too bad megatv got drop, i kind of liked their burlesque shows, interesting that al jazeera tv is gonna be showned,


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

A presently "dark" (legally off-the-air) New York City Class A Television station on channel 46 has been sold for $5,250,000.


WMBQ-CA New York had been broadcasting in Analog on channel 46 up until a few months ago. It had been one of the last two Analog stations in New York, the other being WNYZ-LP, channel 6, which is still on-the-air.


Programming had consisted of the Christian broadcast and satellite television network based in Wall, PA., Cornerstone TeleVision Network , which aired 24/7 on WMBQ-CA channel 46 and co-owned WBQM-LD Brooklyn, channel 3, under a LMA agreement.


Craig L. Fox's Renard Broadcasting, present owners of WMBQ-CA, had filed paperwork with the fcc for an STA to go dark temporarily while digital transmitting facilities for channel 46 were constructed. The plans then called for a flash-cut to digital operation.


The new owners will be Prime Time Partners LLC. The major forces behind Prime Time are Jose Rodriguez and Marisol Messir. Messir has interests in full power television stations in Oxnard CA and Kingman AZ, and a low power in Phoenix AZ.


Renard will likely retain the channel 3 station for now, which has had an outstanding cp to move to channel 50 for at least a couple of years now.


An article which offers some more details on this can be found here: Class A television sold in the Big Apple .


The other nice thing about this sale is that the sale price indicates that the incentives to broadcasters to "vacate" their spectrum will have to be considerably higher than what the fcc would prefer. Channel 46 is in the targeted spectrum and does not have must-carry status, which would significantly augment its value. One can only speculate how much a full-power Digital TV station with must-carry status would command


----------



## AloEuro

Ch.47-1 register at ch.36-3 and stays there, does not go to 47-1

Amazing 68-1,2 Telefutura used to have strongest signal, now even pixelation comes and 41 ch. is getting stronger


----------



## ramonv

Channel 41 will be getting a new sub channel this month. classic TV series and telenovelas from Televisa Mexico. In September they'll add another sub channel called Univision noticias (24 hour news channel).


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ramonv* /forum/post/20788264
> 
> 
> Channel 41 will be getting a new sub channel this month. classic TV series and telenovelas from Televisa Mexico. In September they'll add another sub channel called Univision noticias (24 hour news channel).



Query: What is the source of this information? I'd heard of the networks previously, but without confirmation about whether or not they would be available over the air.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20787641
> 
> 
> Ch.47-1 register at ch.36-3 and stays there, does not go to 47-1
> 
> Amazing 68-1,2 Telefutura used to have strongest signal, now even pixelation comes and 41 ch. is getting stronger



I saw this yesterday and today at 3 pm it is fine.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

I must make a correction on this item I posted:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20771537
> 
> 
> In other New York City area DTV news, WRNN-TV Kingston, channel 48, has altered its sub-channel offerings.
> 
> 
> On July 1, 2011, the station added a fourth sub-channel, "WRNN-D4" for the first time. *GCN*, the Christian religious broadcaster whose programming is seen 24/7 over the primary channel of WEBR-CD Manhattan, had announced they were expanding their coverage area by entering into an LMA with WRNN L.P., and the result was their programming would be seen 24/7 over channel 48-4. This agreement has apparently fallen through after one month.
> 
> 
> Effective August 1, 2011, channel 48-4 is carrying *Suroyo TV*, an Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac satellite television channel which broadcasts from their studios in Södertälje, Sweden. Suroyo TV features programming for the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people and their cultural heritage, history and language. Currently, it has a wide-range of programs ranging from programs designed for children, political and cultural debates to sports programs, from historical documentaries to religious and national events and from film reviews to musical (Syriac songs with video clips) and educational programs. Further, with its daily news programs that are broadcast in Syriac (eastern and western dialects) as well as in Arabic, it is an alternative news channel that is serving the members of the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac community that are scattered all around the world.



My reception of WRNN-TV is intermittent. Depending on atmospherics, my reception can be quite good, but it is typically a very poor signal which cannot be decoded. If atmospherics are right, reception time for this station is usually best between 2AM and sunrise.


Due to the size and location of my antenna I cannot rotate it sufficiently to receive WRNN-TV. And even if I could, I would risk losing other TV stations and the programming offered on channel 48 is not worth that risk, IMHO.


The night before I posted this, I did observe Suroyo TV on 48-4. However, when the signal was coming in two nights ago, GCN was once again on 48-4.


My guess here is that this was a technical problem at WRNN and that the Suroyo TV airing was accidental.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20787641
> 
> 
> Ch.47-1 register at ch.36-3 and stays there, does not go to 47-1



I have observed this a few times before. This issue seems isolated to WNJU Linden.


What is supposed to happen when you tune into WNJU, is the PSIP reads 47-1 and the program guide information is present. On several occasions, there has been an apparent malfunction of the PSIP causing the display to revert to the actual RF channel number of 36-3, and there is no program guide information. One time this lasted nearly an entire week.


Perhaps Trip In VA would be able to explain best what is happening on these occasions.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20789211
> 
> 
> I must make a correction on this item I posted:
> 
> 
> My reception of WRNN-TV is intermittent. Depending on atmospherics, my reception can be quite good, but it is typically a very poor signal which cannot be decoded. If atmospherics are right, reception time for this station is usually best between 2AM and sunrise.
> 
> 
> Due to the size and location of my antenna I cannot rotate it sufficiently to receive WRNN-TV. And even if I could, I would risk losing other TV stations and the programming offered on channel 48 is not worth that risk, IMHO.
> 
> 
> The night before I posted this, I did observe Suroyo TV on 48-4. However, when the signal was coming in two nights ago, GCN was once again on 48-4.
> 
> 
> My guess here is that this was a technical problem at WRNN and that the Suroyo TV airing was accidental.
> 
> 
> 
> I have observed this a few times before. This issue seems isolated to WNJU Linden.
> 
> 
> What is supposed to happen when you tune into WNJU, is the PSIP reads 47-1 and the program guide information is present. On several occasions, there has been an apparent malfunction of the PSIP causing the display to revert to the actual RF channel number of 36-3, and there is no program guide information. One time this lasted nearly an entire week.
> 
> 
> Perhaps Trip In VA would be able to explain best what is happening on these occasions.



im able to get wrnn 48.1 when i turn my antenna rotor towards it's signal. like you mentioned al jazeera tv is showing. let me ask you what type of antenna are using that your not able to lockin wrnn. wnju ch47 problem sounds like a bad psip


----------



## n2ubp

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* 
In other New York City area DTV news, WRNN-TV Kingston, channel 48, has altered its sub-channel offerings.
Still nothing here that is of interest to me.


I wish the FCC could/would pull the plug on the 24 hour a day holy rollers and infomercials that litter television. A total waste of of bandwidth.


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
im able to get wrnn 48.1 when i turn my antenna rotor towards it's signal. like you mentioned al jazeera tv is showing. let me ask you what type of antenna are using that your not able to lockin wrnn. wnju ch47 problem sounds like a bad psip
Yea I can not get those channels.


PS can you see my posts?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey nycdigital09,
Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
im able to get wrnn 48.1 when i turn my antenna rotor towards it's signal. like you mentioned al jazeera tv is showing. let me ask you what type of antenna are using that your not able to lockin wrnn. wnju ch47 problem sounds like a bad psip
My antenna would have no problem receiving it were it pointed towards the signal. I cannot make the adjustment as it is quite large and confined in an attic where space is quite limited. Plus, doing so would cost me stations that would not justify the move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *n2ubp* 
Still nothing here that is of interest to me.


I wish the FCC could/would pull the plug on the 24 hour a day holy rollers and infomercials that litter television. A total waste of of bandwidth.








The fcc wants to pull the plug on ALL broadcast television







Your "wish" is an irresponsible statement.


Ironically, it was the fcc who opened the door to wall-to-wall infomercial broadcasting in 1984 by eliminating regulations limiting the amount of advertising that could appear during an hour of television which were established in the 1950s and 1960s to govern the commercial content of television.


While WRNN-TV and its sub-channels may not presently be offering anything that interests you, there are probably many viewers who would find their programming quite enjoyable and interesting. Hopefully they are watching, and if not, they are purchasing the necessary equipment and installing it so they can take advantage of the eclectic choices and huge variety ALL free OTA Digital TV has to offer.


While I concur that some broadcasters could and should offer much better programming than infomercials, let us not forget that infomercials make up the bulk of programming on practically every basic/family PAY cable channel in the early morning hours. One will not escape infomercials by paying a pay TV provider.


----------



## keyboard21

Any news on the new CBS sub channel?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> While I concur that some broadcasters could and should offer much better programming than infomercials, let us not forget that infomercials make up the bulk of programming on practically every basic/family PAY cable channel in the early morning hours. One will not escape infomercials by paying a pay TV provider.





Is kind of hard to imagine, I still remember clearly back in 1980's when I just got cable television, that most cable channels like usa network A&E networks and others did not show commercials during their programming. it was truly advertisement free television. you paid for cable tv and you got your money's worth no commericals. only the premium networks are the only channels that can do this now. ei hbo and showtime.

informercials its a sure fire proof way to bring in revenue for most tv channels, like or not they gonna be around for a long time.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20792474
> 
> 
> Any news on the new CBS sub channel?



no, but if cbs does well with their subs, possible that fox will follow suit

giacomo read your comments at wkob site, kob should be getting some new shows to add to their lineup soon, btw is that your mug small pic?


----------



## MrKenmore

Any news on the CBS fill in translator in Plainview at the WLIW tower?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20798597
> 
> 
> no, but if cbs does well with their subs, possible that fox will follow



That is true


hey by the way ever get my pm? Did you ever email me? Seems the PMs are broken here. Something I want to discuss with ya.


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20792207
> 
> 
> The fcc wants to pull the plug on ALL broadcast television
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your "wish" is an irresponsible statement.



Hardly.


----------



## T-Max

After having good reception of the Yankee game tonight, it peter'd out shortly before 9 PM and hasn't come back at all yet. Checking my strength meter, it's pretty much @ zero with an occasional bump up to a lousy 81%


Meanwhile, 7,11 and 13 are all very strong -- stronger than usual.


MY9 just plain sucks.


Almost as much as Burnett does.


It's 9:14 PM now. I guess this site is on Mars time.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After having good reception of the Yankee game tonight, it peter'd out shortly before 9 PM and hasn't come back at all yet. Checking my strength meter, it's pretty much @ zero with an occasional bump up to a lousy 81%
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, 7,11 and 13 are all very strong -- stronger than usual.
> 
> 
> MY9 just plain sucks.
> 
> 
> Almost as much as Burnett does.
> 
> 
> It's 9:14 PM now. I guess this site is on Mars time.



It's perfect for me.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20804869
> 
> 
> It's perfect for me.



Yea, I've heard that tune before -- From Randolph.


I dunno what the deal is but it SUCKS for me. And since I think 11 and 13 are also on the ESB (is that right?) it makes no sense that I'd be getting them strong and MY9 virtually not at all.


Except that MY9 is RF 38 and the other stations I referred to are all VHF. That's certainly true. I suppose that could have something to do with it.


They shouldn't be changing their signal direction, right?


And now, at 9:35-ish, it's trying to come back for me and I am getting some reception again.


And just when the Yanks are mounting a comeback (maybe).


Unfortunately, it went out just before the ump threw Scioscia out of the game, so I missed it.


I hate when that happens.


Anyway, thanks for the info.


Edit 9:40 PM: How about that! They DID come back. And I got to see it. And I'm now losing reception again. I guess it's just that I'm right on the edge. Hopefully it will hang with me for awhile longer.


----------



## nycdigital09

T-max dude, I tihink that your reception woes are from a nearby man made problem, they way your signal goes out at exactly 9 pm tells me that your reception of my9 is been hampered probably by nearby fm station or another station close by that happens to go on air at that time. any luck with the emails to my9? by checking google topography there are lots of radio tower and fm broadcasting from your area. try plugging in fm filter adapter on your coax good luck


----------



## rothe

T-max:


Your problems are likely more complex than merely FM overload or multipath or wrong antenna or faulty cabling or anything that any of us can casually suggest as a cure from across the internet. However, I want to echo NYCDigital's suggestion of installing an FM trap. In fact, I just took a look at your FM reception via TV Fool's sister-site, fmfool.com, and it would seem that you have a pretty strong FM station three miles away and right in your line-of-site to the Empire State Building. Just for the sake of ruling out pre-amplifier or tuner overload from the FM signal, I'd want an aggressive FM-trap or filter in line from the antenna, and before any pre-amp or distribution amp that you might have in your setup.


I found that most of the FM traps weren't aggressive enough for my needs - I have a strong FM station on 88.1, which wasn't attenuated at all by my pre-amp's FM trap due to proximity to TV channel 6. So I ended up using a Hi-Low Splitter/Joiner (HLSJ) from Pico-Macom, and terminating the low-side to create an FM trap that drops off very aggressively below channel 7. See:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...Splitters&sku= 


I suspect that this won't solve your problem, but it will eliminate most realistic concerns about overload from commercial FM and local government sources. On the other hand, it *might* solve the whole problem for you.


More likely, though, it will just eliminate one big variable in the whole equation. For six bucks plus the cost of a terminator plug, I'd try it.


----------



## rothe

T-max:


Here's another thought for you: you're right near the mall, right? Does the mall's security team use two-way radios? Most do, and they're most likely in the VHF range below channel 7. That'd be one more reason to try to eliminate any unnecessary signal below channel 7.


Try that HLSJ as an FM filter.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yea, I've heard that tune before -- From Randolph.
> 
> 
> I dunno what the deal is but it SUCKS for me. And since I think 11 and 13 are also on the ESB (is that right?) it makes no sense that I'd be getting them strong and MY9 virtually not at all.
> 
> 
> Except that MY9 is RF 38 and the other stations I referred to are all VHF. That's certainly true. I suppose that could have something to do with it.
> 
> 
> They shouldn't be changing their signal direction, right?
> 
> 
> And now, at 9:35-ish, it's trying to come back for me and I am getting some reception again.
> 
> 
> And just when the Yanks are mounting a comeback (maybe).
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it went out just before the ump threw Scioscia out of the game, so I missed it.
> 
> 
> I hate when that happens.
> 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> Edit 9:40 PM: How about that! They DID come back. And I got to see it. And I'm now losing reception again. I guess it's just that I'm right on the edge. Hopefully it will hang with me for awhile longer.



Like others said, FM trap is good to have but that WILL NOT fix your WWOR problem. If anything FM stations affect VHF channels only which are in the 50-220mhz range. WWOR 38 is in the 630mhz range. But since you say you have no problems with 7 & 11 then FM is not your problem.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20806439
> 
> 
> T-max dude, I tihink that your reception woes are from a nearby man made problem, they way your signal goes out at exactly 9 pm ....





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20810593
> 
> 
> Like others said, FM trap is good to have but that WILL NOT fix your WWOR problem. ....



Thanks to all who made suggestions as to my problem with MY9.


rothe, I'm probably at least a mile away from the Mall (as the crow flies), so I don't know if the two-way radio effect would cause what I'm seeing. Plus it's not all that intermittent. I lose signal for periods of time, then it comes back for periods of time.


nyctveng, I see you didn't take my suggestion on editing quotes. Sigh.


Anyway, thanks for your suggestions. But note that my reception doesn't always go out at 9 PM, or any other given time. But see my ch 7 problem below.


Also, it's not just a MY9 problem, although MY9 is the worst. I have an overall NYC problem which I think is caused by the ridge between me and NYC (and I'm too close to the ridge).


One recurring problem (maybe) that I have had in the past 3 weeks is with ch 7. I record Da Vinci on Mondays @ 1:35 to 2:35 AM. In the past 3 weeks, I had the same sort of problem in weeks 1 and 3. Which is that I lost signal after what amounts to almost exactly 25 minutes into recording. So that would be just a few minutes before 2 AM (I start recording a few minutes early). Up to then I have solid reception. After that, I had virtually no reception -- although I did have reception for a few minutes here and there on both nights.


Week 2 had solid reception throughout, and that has been the norm since I've been recording this show for many months now.


My ch 7 reception is very strong and very solid. Other than the problems I've had with my recordings, I have never seen any other loss of signal problems with 7. That includes during the hour or more before I start my recording, when I sometimes monitor it during Grey's Anatomy, which runs two back to back episodes prior to Da Vinci.


I hope I'm not getting hooked on that stupid show.


So I suspect maybe that particular ch 7 problem is a maintainence deal? Are they choosing to do some maintenance work at around 2 AM? Perhaps they are wary of pissing off the Grey's crowd and figure the Da Vinci crowd is far less influential, so they're sticking it to them. For all I know, I'm the only guy interested in it.


Because it does seem odd that I'd have such very strong reception and then just lose it completely for extended periods of time.


But like I say, I'm in a very iffy spot for NYC reception. So all this could just be some atmospheric situation or other. Because I can see where I might be getting some reflected NYC signal making it over the ridge and getting to me -- if that kind of thing happens with these TV signals, that is.


And as to MY9, that IS my weakest NYC station -- other than WNEW. That one, @ RF 44, is a total no go for me. I've locked it in once or twice but never have gotten an actual picture. At least, not since the transition. Prior to that I used to get it, but it was still quite weak.


So given MY9's weak signal for me, it stands to reason that any kind of disruption in its signal would tend to cut me off completely. I can stand a little loss on ch 7 without it affecting me, but even a little bit of a loss of MY9's signal is going to be fatal for me.


Which is just another reason I say that MY9 sucks.


THEY NEED TO PUT OUT MORE POWER!!


----------



## Ken H

Moderators Notes:


1) Overt political comments are not permitted at AVS, as are replies to such comments.


2) Concerns about how other members use the forum (hijacking, quote size) are to be forwarded to moderators, not discussed on the forum. Use the 'Report Post' button in the lower left corner of every post.


3) Thus, a number of comments have been deleted and/or edited.


4) Further off topic comments will result in more severe moderator action, including the loss of ability to participate in this topic, or at AVS in total.


5) A number of members in this topic seem not to know how to use the 'Quote' function. At the lower right corner of every post is the 'Quote' button, which automatically creates a new post with the quoted post in quote brackets. Text in the quote brackets can be shortened to address a specific comment, but editing a quoted comment to your own benefit will result in the aforementioned moderator actions. When quoting other members, please use the 'Quote' function as it easily lets other readers see the difference between your comment and the comment you are replying to. Not using it can result in unwanted confusion.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
THEY NEED TO PUT OUT MORE POWER!!









max, maybe is time to ditch your ratshack monster and get a 91xg/ ya1713 combo. I'm t using that setup and it pulls in the fringe stations. plus it lightweight on the rotor


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20815795
> 
> 
> max, maybe is time to ditch your ratshack monster and get a 91xg/ ya1713 combo. I'm t using that setup and it pulls in the fringe stations. plus it lightweight on the rotor



Interesting thought and the 91xg might well improve my reception, but I think my problems are more geographically related. Plus I only go to MY9 for Yankee games.


If I had access to a 91xg for experimental purposes, I'd give it a try.


I also had the thought that perhaps a pre-amp might help out.


But, again, I think geography might be my biggest problem. If ABC hasn't been doing maintenance work at 2 AM Monday mornings, then there must be some geographic (or atmospheric?) reason for the drastic drop in my ch 7 reception. Otherwise, why would I go from a solid 91 - 93% for a half hour, then completely lose reception for a half hour?


I have to go below 84% to lose reception completely. I've monitored the situation on at least one occasion and when I lost reception, it was essentially zero with the occasional bump up to something well below 84%.


I don't know that any antenna would resolve that kind of problem.


So I'm thinking it's either geographic, atmospheric (?) or, as you and others have suggested, interference by other broadcasting signals, etc.


But if you look at that TV Fool coverage map that I linked previously (it's on the prior page at the moment) you can see that I'm in a bad spot for NYC reception, generally speaking.


And, as you yourself once said, MY9 is one of the weaker NYC stations. So when you take those two factors into account, it's basically always going to be touch and go for me with MY9 reception.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20804834
> 
> 
> After having good reception of the Yankee game tonight, it peter'd out shortly before 9 PM and hasn't come back at all yet. Checking my strength meter, it's pretty much @ zero with an occasional bump up to a lousy 81%



Not sure what your problem is but if I get signal in the 80% range then I am locked on the station really well. If you are bouncing all over the place and 81% is not locked on then your problem is some interference and not the transmission. My humble opinion. Not sure what options you have short of moving your antenna or living somewhere else.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20817828
> 
> 
> Not sure what your problem is but if I get signal in the 80% range then I am locked on the station really well. If you are bouncing all over the place and 81% is not locked on then your problem is some interference and not the transmission. My humble opinion. Not sure what options you have short of moving your antenna or living somewhere else.



You can't compare one tuner to another that way. Your 80% might equal my 92%. I'm using a VOOM box (retired VOOM Satellite box) but I also have a Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver. While the VOOM needs 80% just to lock a station in and 85% for solid "weather fade" reception (it states both such facts itself in the meter window), the TS360 gets strong reception at 45%.


I wonder where in Randolf you are because if you look at the TV Fool coverage map I referred to you'll see that Randolf is pretty much all in the purple and blue "weak" area for MY9.


I guess you're just a lucky fellow with all that solid MY9 reception.


P.S.: How's your ch. 5-1 and 9-2 reception? I can't even lock them in, so they are below 80% on my VOOM box. They are @ RF 44 whereas 9-1 and 5-2 are RF 38


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But, again, I think geography might be my biggest problem. If ABC hasn't been doing maintenance work at 2 AM Monday mornings, then there must be some geographic (or atmospheric?) reason for the drastic drop in my ch 7 reception. Otherwise, why would I go from a solid 91 - 93% for a half hour, then completely lose reception for a half hour?



you're also having probs with abc7? abc7 has the strongest signal of all the stations in nyc



And, as you yourself once said, MY9 is one of the weaker NYC stations. So when you take those two factors into account, it's basically always going to be touch and go for me with MY9 reception.


get yourself an fm trap man


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20818405
> 
> 
> You can't compare one tuner to another that way. Your 80% might equal my 92%. I'm using a VOOM box (retired VOOM Satellite box) but I also have a Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver. While the VOOM needs 80% just to lock a station in and 85% for solid "weather fade" reception (it states both such facts itself in the meter window), the TS360 gets strong reception at 45%.
> 
> 
> I wonder where in Randolf you are because if you look at the TV Fool coverage map I referred to you'll see that Randolf is pretty much all in the purple and blue "weak" area for MY9.
> 
> 
> I guess you're just a lucky fellow with all that solid MY9 reception.
> 
> 
> P.S.: How's your ch. 5-1 and 9-2 reception? I can't even lock them in, so they are below 80% on my VOOM box. They are @ RF 44 whereas 9-1 and 5-2 are RF 38



I have 3 antennas. My CM4228 is at the top of the roof about 35' off the ground. Next I have I home built GH6 about 15' below that and then my latest GH6 even lower about 10' below that.


All 3 pick up 9.1 in the mid 80's to low 90's. However my high up CM4228 and my very low GH6 are the only ones that can pick up 5.1. The CM gets it in the 90 range and the lowest antenna gets it in the mid 80s. So I see antenna location is a factor in what you can pick up. When I was locating my 2 home builts I found that just moving them 5' up or down would impact reception on various channels till I found a sweet spot where the channels that I cared about were coming in the best.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20818892
> 
> 
> you're also having probs with abc7? abc7 has the strongest signal of all the stations in nyc. get yourself an fm trap man



Keep working on that quote thing -- you'll get it eventually. Looks like you're almost there. It appears that when you did your editing, you edited out the "QUOTE=T-Max;20817777" at the beginning and/or the "/QUOTE" at the end.


Ya need both of those in there. Anything else can go.


Also note that I did not include the enclosing brackets (the "[]") that go around both of what I put in quotation marks above. Ya need those too. But if I had included them, it would have come out looking like an actual quote, so I had to leave them out in order to make the point.


You might want to fiddle around with it along with some liberal use of the preview button.


Other than that omission, you done good -- you did indeed edit out everything but the relevant portions of my post to which you were responding, which is a good thing (IMHO).


I'm not so sure our Moderator is all that keen on my idea of editing quotes but I guess it's seen as okay as long as we avoid "editing a quoted comment to your own benefit." I take that to mean that you don't want to edit quotes in a misleading or self-serving manner.


My thinking on editing is that if you edit out extraneous stuff (stuff you're not replying to), it makes for a more concise board dynamic (for lack of a better way of expressing it). It also focuses attention on what it is in the poster's post that you're addressing. And if a reader wants to read the ENTIRE quote, there's the little arrow-icon button to click which brings up the quoted post in its entirety.


I assume that's what that button is for. Seems like a real "duh!" to me.


Okay, I've beaten that horse pretty much to death, so enuff already with that. Except to say that I WAS thinking of just PM-ing my comments to you, but then I thought better of it and decided to leave them in this post because you are not the Lone Ranger on this issue. Seems others (as Ken pointed out) also aren't all that proficient with the quote function.


So, moving on...


I probably should remind readers that I don't actually watch NYC tv as a general proposition. Although I'm closer to NYC than Philly, I have excellent line of sight to Philly and get outstanding reception of both Philly and Allentown stations.


Those are my primary sources for OTA tv. So it's not like I'm watching NYC OTA all the time, and thus have a lot of feedback on reception problems on a daily basis, etc.


I only go to NYC stations for Yankee games and for my nightly recording sessions of Da Vinci's Inquest on ch 7.


And I do note that ch 7 is indeed my strongest NYC station. That's what makes me so crazy when I lose it, as I did this week and also 2 weeks prior. Last week's recording was fine. So that's why I'm thinking there was some problem (or maintenance) happening with ABC and/or the ESB.


But, again, it could be my particular problem entirely. Maybe geographic or maybe interference, as you seem to think.


I can envision some potential rain fade problems with tonight's Da Vinci recording.


BTW, this is probably a good time to make this point:


I recall all the hubbub on the Philly OTA board around transition time (and prior) about ch 6 sticking with RF 6 rather than going to UHF. Everybody was talking doom and gloom about how reception was going to be terrible at that low RF, yada yada yada.


But as it turns out, both ch7 in NYC and ch 6 in Philly are VERY strong stations, at least for me. So it looks to me like the whole thing was a tempest in a teapot.


Maybe MY9 out to try RF 9 ..


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *
> 
> 
> I only go to NYC stations for Yankee games and for my nightly recording sessions of Da Vinci's Inquest on ch 7.
> 
> 
> And I do note that ch 7 is indeed my strongest NYC station. That's what makes me so crazy when I lose it, as I did this week and also 2 weeks prior. Last week's recording was fine. So that's why I'm thinking there was some problem (or maintenance) happening with ABC and/or the ESB.
> 
> 
> But, again, it could be my particular problem entirely. Maybe geographic or maybe interference, as you seem to think.
> 
> 
> I can envision some potential rain fade problems with tonight's Da Vinci recording.
> 
> 
> BTW, this is probably a good time to make this point:
> 
> 
> I recall all the hubbub on the Philly OTA board around transition time (and prior) about ch 6 sticking with RF 6 rather than going to UHF. Everybody was talking doom and gloom about how reception was going to be terrible at that low RF, yada yada yada.
> 
> 
> But as it turns out, both ch7 in NYC and ch 6 in Philly are VERY strong stations, at least for me. So it looks to me like the whole thing was a tempest in a teapot.
> 
> 
> Maybe MY9 out to try RF 9 ../QUOTE* /forum/post/0



At least you're not a phillies phan, I despise all their teams, especially the phills this coming from a ny mets fan


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20820662
> 
> 
> I recall all the hubbub on the Philly OTA board around transition time (and prior) about ch 6 sticking with RF 6 rather than going to UHF. Everybody was talking doom and gloom about how reception was going to be terrible at that low RF, yada yada yada.
> 
> 
> But as it turns out, both ch7 in NYC and ch 6 in Philly are VERY strong stations, at least for me. So it looks to me like the whole thing was a tempest in a teapot.



Of course, WABC had to boost from 11 to 27 kW and WPVI from 7 to 30 (and soon to 37) kW to make it even resemble something that works. Roof antennas are generally okay for many VHF stations, it's indoor antennas that are the problem. Last time I was in the area (near Edison), I barely decoded WABC and WNJB and didn't decode WPIX or WNET at all, and that was with my very large VHF bowtie, not one of the crappy indoor antennas many people have. Meanwhile, the UHFs were easy catches.



> Quote:
> Maybe MY9 out to try RF 9 ..



From what I've been told, WWOR would have strongly considered keeping 9 except for WBPH and WEDN and WNJB preventing it. Of course, on the contrary, had FOX known then that they'd have Mobile DTV in the future to cotend with, I suspect they'd have kept as many of their stations on UHF as possible, including a number of the ones that are currently sitting on VHF.


- Trip


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20819810
> 
> 
> I have 3 antennas....All 3 pick up 9.1 in the mid 80's to low 90's...



My _general_ reception of MY9 is 84% on my VOOM box (which is the only one I use for NYC reception). And when I have a pretty solid 84%, it will usually jump up to 85% and even stay there for at least a bit.


What that means for me is this: A solid 85% means solid reception with no issues. A solid 84% means essentially solid reception as well (as long as it doesn't drop below 84%, which it generally does from time to time, giving me the occasional pixelation, frozen picture, interruption, yada yada, but at a level that I can live with).


Anything below 84% is either way too much breakup or loss of signal entirely. Anything greater than 85% is just plain solid reception.


So you can see that good reception for me is in a pretty narrow range around 84%, and that I basically need 84% (pretty solid) or above, or I just get virtually nothing.


If I had your "mid 80's to low 90's," I'd have solid reception too (as long as your "mid 80's" is solid 84 or above).


Thus it looks like we have just about the same reception (generally speaking), with yours a bit better than mine and that "bit better" making all the difference in the world (as it would for me as well).


And another factore being that you apparently don't have the rather extreme dropouts that I have (for the as yet unexplained reason(s)).


I suspect that you probably have better line of sight than I have as well. I'm just too darn close to the base of this ridge that blocks my NYC line of sight.


I think I'd be better off being a little farther from NYC because then I'd also be a little farther from the base of the ridge and maybe some more of the signal would make it my way.


BTW, my antenna is also on my roof and my roof is pretty high. The peak of my roof (which is where the antenna is) is 37 feet off the ground. The antenna sits atop a pole that's at least 10 ft above the roof. So it's pretty high up.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20820717
> 
> 
> Of course, WABC had to boost from 11 to 27 kW and WPVI from 7 to 30 (and soon to 37) kW to make it even resemble something that works....- Trip



Yea, I know there's that. But frankly, what do I care if they have to incur the expense of more power as long as I get good TV? And the indoor antenna issue does not confront me either, so what do I care about that?


As always, I'm only looking out for myself over here.











> Quote:
> From what I've been told, WWOR would have strongly considered keeping 9 except for WBPH and WEDN and WNJB preventing it...



Funny you should mention that. WBPH is a VERY strong station for me. I forget the actual number but it's a whopping one -- maybe like 99% or so. It wasn't there at transition time or for quite some time thereafter, but once it did show up, it came in big time for me.


BTW, I probably meant to say that maybe MY9 _ought_ to try RF 9.


----------



## LenL

I am at a disadvantage for LOS as I mentioned a number of times on this forum. My house is halfway up a hill and my highest antenna just barely peaks over the top which is in the direction of the ESB. If I was one or more houses further up the hill I would get much better reception!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20820810
> 
> 
> Funny you should mention that. WBPH is a VERY strong station for me. I forget the actual number but it's a whopping one -- maybe like 99% or so. It wasn't there at transition time or for quite some time thereafter, but once it did show up, it came in big time for me.



WBPH boosted power a while back from 3.2 kW on a very directional antenna (aimed at Philly) up to 80.6 kW on a significantly less directional antenna that puts full power in your direction. And they want to boost again to 120 kW.


- Trip


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20820993
> 
> 
> WBPH boosted power a while back from 3.2 kW on a very directional antenna (aimed at Philly) up to 80.6 kW on a significantly less directional antenna that puts full power in your direction. And they want to boost again to 120 kW.- Trip



Any thoughts on my MY9 problem? According to TV Fool it's currently at 355.000 kW. So it's at RF 38 @ 355.000 kW. Meanwhile, WCBS ch. 2.1 is at RF 33 @ 284.000 kW -- and it's also rated a couple of places below MY9 on the TV Fool list for me -- yet I get WCBS much better than MY9.


Also, WNBC (RF 28 / 200.200 kW) is rated 5 places below MY9 on the list, and I also get THAT stronger than MY9.


Is it just the location of their respective antennas? I know MY9 is on the ESB. Not sure where the others are.


If it was FM (or other) interference, wouldn't that also affect 2.1 and 4.1?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20821134
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on my MY9 problem? According to TV Fool it's currently at 355.000 kW. So it's at RF 38 @ 355.000 kW. Meanwhile, WCBS ch. 2.1 is at RF 33 @ 284.000 kW -- and it's also rated a couple of places below MY9 on the TV Fool list for me -- yet I get WCBS much better than MY9.
> 
> 
> Also, WNBC (RF 28 / 200.200 kW) is rated 5 places below MY9 on the list, and I also get THAT stronger than MY9.
> 
> 
> Is it just the location of their respective antennas? I know MY9 is on the ESB. Not sure where the others are.
> 
> 
> If it was FM (or other) interference, wouldn't that also affect 2.1 and 4.1?



If TVFool has WWOR at 355 kW, then TVFool is wrong, because WWOR is at 170 kW. The 355 kW permit specifies an antenna on the Empire State Building that has not yet been installed.


To the best of my knowledge, 2, 4, and 9 are coming off a single antenna on ESB (as are 7, 11, and 13). WWOR is at 170 kW, WNBC at 200.2 kW, and WCBS at either 335 kW or 426 kW.


Interference can come in almost any configuration. I had interference locally one time that was from a dying amplifier that crushed my local digitals on 3 and 18, interfered with several others, and bypassed some stations completely. This was when there were still analogs; I remember one station the audio was gone but the video was perfect.


Using an FM trap would likely help your VHFs, but would only help UHFs in the presence of severe interference from FM. If you're really close to one or more FMs, I would begin to wonder about intermod being a problem. I worked for WDBJ and I remember that in analog it was possible to see/hear WDBJ and other FM and TV broadcasters when in the transmitter building on various channels in the band. I remember WDBJ-7 analog being watchable on channel 45. Unless you're using your roof antenna for listening to FM radio, I can't see an FM trap hurting anything.


As for what's causing your issues, it could be anything, HOWEVER, how far are you from WNJB? I looked up where Bridgewater NJ is. Is it possible that you are being overloaded by WNJB? They did increase power from 17 kW up to 40.82 kW a while back.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yea, I know there's that. But frankly, what do I care if they have to incur the expense of more power as long as I get good TV? And the indoor antenna issue does not confront me either, so what do I care about that?
> 
> 
> As always, I'm only looking out for myself over here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you should mention that. WBPH is a VERY strong station for me. I forget the actual number but it's a whopping one -- maybe like 99% or so. It wasn't there at transition time or for quite some time thereafter, but once it did show up, it came in big time for me.
> 
> 
> BTW, I probably meant to say that maybe MY9 ought to try RF 9.



Yes the stations should spend tens of thousands more dollars so u can get better signal. That would have a good impact on environment and the power grid.Have u bothered to try any of the suggestions users here have suggested? Different antenna, higher elevation,fm trap,preamp??? It's easier for u to do that than expect stations to boost power or move frequencies.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20821290
> 
> 
> If TVFool has WWOR at 355 kW, then TVFool is wrong, because WWOR is at 170 kW. The 355 kW permit specifies an antenna on the Empire State Building that has not yet been installed.- Trip



Yes, TV Fool does have WWOR at 355 kW.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ALLTV%26n%3d25 


Although it does state it as "Maximum ERP." So maybe they're figuring it as of after the construction permit kicks in?


Because I did consult the FCC page on WWOR and saw that construction permit -

http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WWOR-TV 


It's just that I can never figure out how to read the FCC pages as to what's in place now vs. what's gonna be in place someday (maybe). But I like what you said because it sounds like my MY9 reception should improve dramatically once they get that antenna in place and powered up.


Thanks for the info on the location of the antennas for those NYC stations. Also on your feeling as to FM interference. I doubt that has any impact on my reception although I did used to get significant analog TV interference years ago (and not on my current antenna or anything like it) which I thought was due to some local ham radio operator (tho' I didn't know of any specifically) or something like that. It would come and go randomly.


But that was years ago and it went away years ago and I haven't see it in many years -- even when I was still analog with an antenna similar to the one I have now (only it was inside the attic).


I'm pretty close to WNJB but if I wuz getting interference from them wouldn't that be a constant thing? As I've said, sometimes my MY9 reception is good and then for some unexplained reason it goes completely flukey.


I can see that being due to a ham operator who fires up only now and then, but it doesn't seem that any FM or other TV station would have that kind of effect.


And since MY9 is UHF, it doesn't sound like you feel that an FM trap would help me with my MY9 reception issues.


Thanks again for your feedback.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20821360
> 
> 
> Yes the stations should spend tens of thousands more dollars so u can get better signal. That would have a good impact on environment and the power grid.



You make a strong case for that sarcasm font I keep hearing about.



> Quote:
> Have u bothered to try any of the suggestions users here have suggested? Different antenna, higher elevation,fm trap,preamp???



No. Nor do I plan to. I'd rather have the stations spend tens of thousands more dollars increasing power or move frequencies so that I can get better signal.


That works for me.



> Quote:
> It's easier for u to do that than expect stations to boost power or move frequencies.



See above.


----------



## nycdigital09

hey t-max if you want to improve your tv signal i got some good used preamps 4 sale


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20821290
> 
> 
> ... because WWOR is at 170 kW. The 355 kW permit specifies an antenna on the Empire State Building that has not yet been installed....- Trip



So you're saying that WWOR is now operating with this setup (from the FCC page):

_Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 170. kW ERP

Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 397. meters HAAT_


and that they will be going to this:

_Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 355. kW ERP

Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 439. meters HAAT_


Have I got that right? Like I said, I'm not very good at figuring out that FCC information.


Because if that's true then my reception of MY9 should dramatically improve once they get the new setup in place. They are more than doubling the power AND raising the antenna height.


I might just email them and ask when they feel that will become operational.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20821665
> 
> 
> I'm pretty close to WNJB but if I wuz getting interference from them wouldn't that be a constant thing? As I've said, sometimes my MY9 reception is good and then for some unexplained reason it goes completely flukey.



One would think so, but I'm just out of ideas otherwise. Is it more common at night than during the day? It could be atmospheric, the signal could be intensifying enough at night to overload you. I'm not sure I buy that reasoning either.


The phrase "grasping at straws" comes to mind. This sort of thing is something I'd want to see on my spectrum analyzer to make any kind of definitive statement.



> Quote:
> And since MY9 is UHF, it doesn't sound like you feel that an FM trap would help me with my MY9 reception issues.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for your feedback.



Anything is possible, certainly, but I find it to be unlikely.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20822006
> 
> 
> So you're saying that WWOR is now operating with this setup (from the FCC page):
> 
> _Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 170. kW ERP
> 
> Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 397. meters HAAT_
> 
> 
> and that they will be going to this:
> 
> _Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 355. kW ERP
> 
> Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 439. meters HAAT_
> 
> 
> Have I got that right? Like I said, I'm not very good at figuring out that FCC information.



Yes. If it makes your life easier, I have all of this information on RabbitEars in what should be a more usable format.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wwor 


Click on "Technical Data and Screencaps" and you will see the entry listed at the top is the licensed facility. (DT-PL stands for Digital Television - Pending License. Most of the text pops up little explanatory notes if you hover over it.)



> Quote:
> Because if that's true then my reception of MY9 should dramatically improve once they get the new setup in place. They are more than doubling the power AND raising the antenna height.
> 
> 
> I might just email them and ask when they feel that will become operational.



At this point, it's difficult to know when or if it will happen. There's finally talk again about maybe moving the broadcasters back over to 1WTC, and if that happens, they may not bother building the top-mounted ESB facility. I haven't heard anything about any new construction on the ESB in the near future, so you might be in for a bit of a wait on any kind of improvement.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hey t-max if you want to improve your tv signal i got some good used preamps 4 sale



T max says he's looking for signal to improve without paying any money so I dont think he will want to buy any.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20822118
> 
> 
> ...Is it more common at night than during the day? It could be atmospheric, the signal could be intensifying enough at night to overload you. I'm not sure I buy that reasoning either....- Trip



As I say, I don't really watch NYC tv but for special circumstances. So I don't really know how it is during the day or evening generally speaking.


I also don't believe I'm being overloaded, but I do suspect atmospheric factors. Don't these signals sometimes bounce of the troposphere (or whatever)? I wouldn't be surprised if I'm getting some reflected signal coming over the ridge and that it could be affected by atmospheric conditions.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20821290
> 
> 
> ....To the best of my knowledge, 2, 4, and 9 are coming off a single antenna on ESB (as are 7, 11, and 13). WWOR is at 170 kW, WNBC at 200.2 kW, and WCBS at either 335 kW or 426 kW....- Trip



Just for example, right now (~10pm) I'm getting the following readings:


7 - solid 90-91%

11 - solid 86%

13 - solid 85%

4 - solid 85% (that's RF 28, so it's UHF just like MY9's RF 38)

MY9 - some 83% and a lotta flat-out zero reading. It's unwatchable. All the others are very watchable.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20820746
> 
> 
> My _general_ reception of MY9 is 84% on my VOOM box (which is the only one I use for NYC reception). And when I have a pretty solid 84%, it will usually jump up to 85% and even stay there for at least a bit.
> 
> 
> What that means for me is this: A solid 85% means solid reception with no issues. A solid 84% means essentially solid reception as well (as long as it doesn't drop below 84%, which it generally does from time to time, giving me the occasional pixelation, frozen picture, interruption, yada yada, but at a level that I can live with).
> 
> 
> Anything below 84% is either way too much breakup or loss of signal entirely. Anything greater than 85% is just plain solid reception.
> 
> 
> So you can see that good reception for me is in a pretty narrow range around 84%, and that I basically need 84% (pretty solid) or above, or I just get virtually nothing.
> 
> 
> If I had your "mid 80's to low 90's," I'd have solid reception too (as long as your "mid 80's" is solid 84 or above).....



Remember that signal strength or signal quality readings are virtually impossible to compare from different receivers.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20822118
> 
> 
> ...At this point, it's difficult to know when or if it will happen. There's finally talk again about maybe moving the broadcasters back over to 1WTC, and if that happens, they may not bother building the top-mounted ESB facility. I haven't heard anything about any new construction on the ESB in the near future, so you might be in for a bit of a wait on any kind of improvement....- Trip


_An architectural landmark for New York City, 1 World Trade Center (WTC) will soar a symbolic 1,776 feet skyward to become America's tallest building. Designed by David M. Childs of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, the 2.6-million-square-foot building will include office space, an observation deck, world-class restaurants, and broadcast and antennae facilities._

http://www.wtc.com/about/freedom-tower 


I like the sound of that!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20822318
> 
> _An architectural landmark for New York City, 1 World Trade Center (WTC) will soar a symbolic 1,776 feet skyward to become America's tallest building. Designed by David M. Childs of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, the 2.6-million-square-foot building will include office space, an observation deck, world-class restaurants, and broadcast and antennae facilities._
> 
> http://www.wtc.com/about/freedom-tower
> 
> 
> I like the sound of that!



I hate to break 2 u but tv antenna arrays might stay esb. thats what i been hearing







no money


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20820662
> 
> 
> ...I only go to NYC stations for Yankee games and for my nightly recording sessions of Da Vinci's Inquest on ch 7.
> 
> 
> And I do note that ch 7 is indeed my strongest NYC station. That's what makes me so crazy when I lose it, as I did this week and also 2 weeks prior. Last week's recording was fine. So that's why I'm thinking there was some problem (or maintenance) happening with ABC and/or the ESB...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20822240
> 
> 
> As I say, I don't really watch NYC tv but for special circumstances. So I don't really know how it is during the day or evening generally speaking....Just for example, right now (~10pm) I'm getting the following readings:
> 
> 
> 7 - solid 90-91%
> 
> 11 - solid 86%
> 
> 13 - solid 85%
> 
> 4 - solid 85% (that's RF 28, so it's UHF just like MY9's RF 38)
> 
> MY9 - some 83% and a lotta flat-out zero reading. It's unwatchable. All the others are very watchable.



I previewed my recording of Da Vinci @ 1:35 - 2:35 this morning (that last quote was from last night @ 10 pm) and it was fine. Apparently there were no reception issues or loss of signal although I haven't watched the entire thing -- just a bit of each chapter which are @ 5 min intervals. Also, I had ch 7 on for 2 hours prior to recording and didn't have any issues at all during that time. So I'm thinking the problems I saw in prior weeks had to be with ABC or the ESB, unless there was some sort of wacky atmospheric thing which just happened to occur at just about 2 AM on both nights.


Also, I checked my reception numbers again this morning and they were about the same as above except that they were a bit higher, including MY9 which appeared to be a solid (or pretty solid) 84%.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20822615
> 
> 
> I hate to break 2 u but tv antenna arrays might stay esb. thats what i been hearing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no money



Well, since MY9 has a construction permit for increased power and height, and a new antenna, they'll either go ahead with that or they will move to 1WTC.


Either way, my reception should improve significantly.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20823715
> 
> 
> I previewed my recording of Da Vinci @ 1:35 - 2:35 this morning (that last quote was from last night @ 10 pm) and it was fine. Apparently there were no reception issues or loss of signal although I haven't watched the entire thing -- just a bit of each chapter which are @ 5 min intervals. Also, I had ch 7 on for 2 hours prior to recording and didn't have any issues at all during that time. So I'm thinking the problems I saw in prior weeks had to be with ABC or the ESB, unless there was some sort of wacky atmospheric thing which just happened to occur at just about 2 AM on both nights



i could be mistaken but di vinci is also on retrotv ? i prefer starsky hutch old skool







do you receive wfmz ch69 from allentown, they show metv which i'm hoping we get it soon it so much better than the other old skool stations I use receive that station back in analog days also wlvt ch39 lehigh valley pbs.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20823783
> 
> 
> i could be mistaken but di vinci is also on retrotv ? i prefer starsky hutch old skool



It is indeed listed on Zap2it as being on my RTV station out of Allentown / Bethlehem (WFMZ 69.4) but I don't think it's actually been on yet. It's listed for Mondays @ midnight so I'll check it out tonight. I believe the Zap2it listing just started 3 or 4 weeks ago and I know it wasn't on the first week I checked (and maybe also the next). It's also listed on WFMZ's own schedule:

http://www.wfmz.com/tvlistings/index.html 


And RTV's site also notes that they are broadcasting it.


None of those TV listing sites state what episode is being broadcast on RTV, whereas Zap2it always gives the episode name and description for the ABC broadcast. So if I ever see an actual episode name given for the RTV broadcast, I'll have a little more confidence that it's actually going to be on. Other than that, I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20822240
> 
> 
> As I say, I don't really watch NYC tv but for special circumstances. So I don't really know how it is during the day or evening generally speaking.
> 
> 
> I also don't believe I'm being overloaded, but I do suspect atmospheric factors. Don't these signals sometimes bounce of the troposphere (or whatever)? I wouldn't be surprised if I'm getting some reflected signal coming over the ridge and that it could be affected by atmospheric conditions.



If you're looking over a ridge, it's possible that you're getting multipath from that. Since multipath can vary with frequency, this would make sense. And I've seen multipath vary with time of day, including due to changing strengths due to tropospheric ducting.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20823715
> 
> 
> Well, since MY9 has a construction permit for increased power and height, and a new antenna, they'll either go ahead with that or they will move to 1WTC.
> 
> 
> Either way, my reception should improve significantly.



There's the third option that you're forgetting, and that's that they could leave it right where it is. If the permit lapses, the current license remains valid.


With the uncertainty about 1WTC, I wouldn't be surprised to see this sort of thing take years, not months, to be finalized.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

Trip in VA,


Any news on when CBS is coming out with that new sub? I read 3rd quarter


----------



## Trip in VA

I've heard nothing.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09*
I hate to break 2 u but tv antenna arrays might stay esb. thats what i been hearing







no money
Good point. Reality is that a lot of money has been invested into the ESB infrastructure and many stations simply cannot afford to relocate again. The bigger ones may move to WTC and keep ESB as a backup. With OTA making up less than 10% of any station's viewership, there's little incentive to increase power or invest so much more money into possibly gaining a handful of viewers. Many OTA viewers simply went to lifeline cable for $20 or less per month or simply invested in a good antenna and equipment to get a reliable signal. Those that don't want to invest a little money or time into getting a good signal will just be left in the dark.


----------



## Trip in VA

The other side of the coin is that Fox, NBC, and ION are all pushing Mobile DTV which will probably require new elliptically- or circularly-polarized antennas anyway, so the question then becomes do you do the replacement on ESB or build it out new on 1WTC?


- Trip


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* 
If you're looking over a ridge, it's possible that you're getting multipath from that. Since multipath can vary with frequency, this would make sense. And I've seen multipath vary with time of day, including due to changing strengths due to tropospheric ducting.- Trip
I agree. I think all those factors account for my general NYC problems. But if MY9 were a bit stronger station, I think I'd be okay for my Yankee games.

Quote:

...There's the third option that you're forgetting, and that's that they could leave it right where it is. If the permit lapses, the current license remains valid. With the uncertainty about 1WTC, I wouldn't be surprised to see this sort of thing take years, not months, to be finalized.
I went to your site (very nice) and I see that the permit expires in December next year, so they have plenty of time to do it or not do it. I assume there's a reason they went for the permit in the first place, so I imagine they might just do it. If they don't, then I'm still where I am. Maybe I'll email them and see what they have to say about it.


Is that DX-APP on Orange Mountain working? Might that account for LenL's better reception than mine? He's in Randolph, just west of Morristown and 30 miles west of ESB. It looks from the plot that most of the signal is directed back toward NYC and thus away from LenL. But I'm probably reading it wrong.


Also, does that DX-PL mean that they have a pending license for increased power to 182 kW that might kick in soon? Sooner than their DT-CP MOD, I assume?


Unless all that stuff means nothing for me.


----------



## SnellKrell

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21* 
Trip in VA,


Any news on when CBS is coming out with that new sub? I read 3rd quarter
In all honesty, I can't understand the amount of anticipation for WCBS to diminish the quality of its signal (yes, there are those who can tell and appreciate the difference) to bring forth additional "programming" of questionable appeal.


Do we really need this?


I suspect not!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Trip in VA

Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
I went to your site (very nice) and I see that the permit expires in December next year, so they have plenty of time to do it or not do it. I assume there's a reason they went for the permit in the first place, so I imagine they might just do it. If they don't, then I'm still where I am. Maybe I'll email them and see what they have to say about it.
Sure, see what they say. I'd be curious to know myself.


They applied for that back when the talks with 1WTC had fallen apart and it was looking pretty likely that ESB was going to be where the stations would be. That's why it's so uncertain now that there's talk of moving to 1WTC again.


Some filings, particularly in New York, exist to preserve coverage. For example, WCBS, WNBC, and some others have applications on file for 1WTC. If they had been granted shortly after filing, they would have a similar clock counting down and no building to put them on. They exist solely to make sure that they can move back there if they want to when the time comes.

Quote:

Is that DX-APP on Orange Mountain working? Might that account for LenL's better reception than mine? He's in Randolph, just west of Morristown and 30 miles west of ESB. It looks from the plot that most of the signal is directed back toward NYC and thus away from LenL. But I'm probably reading it wrong.


Also, does that DX-PL mean that they have a pending license for increased power to 182 kW that might kick in soon? Sooner than their DT-CP MOD, I assume?


Unless all that stuff means nothing for me.
"DX" facilities are auxiliary. That is, should something happen to the Empire State Building as happened to 1WTC, or any other kind of technical failure, the Orange Mountain facility would be able to be turned on to try to replace some of the lost coverage. Those facilities are not currently operating.


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

 http://www.atsc.org/cms/index.php/co...-transmissions 



> Quote:
> *ATSC BEGINS WORK ON BROADCAST STANDARD FOR 3D-TV TRANSMISSIONS*
> 
> 
> Monday, 15 August 2011 08:53
> 
> New Effort to Address Home and Mobile Applications for Three-Dimensional Viewing from Local TV Stations
> 
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON, Aug. 15, 2011 --The Advanced Television Systems Committee Inc. (ATSC) has launched development of a three-dimensional (3D) broadcast TV standard that will provide methods for transmission of 3D-TV content to both fixed and mobile devices, the standards development organization announced today.
> 
> 
> "The addition of 3D-TV over-the-air TV broadcast transmission is part of our ongoing effort to expand the capabilities of the ATSC suite of digital television standards," said ATSC President Mark Richer.
> 
> 
> The groundbreaking work on the new 3D-TV broadcast standard builds on the extensive efforts over the last year by the ATSC 3DTV Planning Team. This new standard, which could be completed in a year, will allow:
> 
> 
> 3D content delivered on one ATSC terrestrial channel to fixed receivers, with delivery of both views (left and right eye) in real-time, and;
> 
> 3D content delivered on one ATSC terrestrial channel to Mobile/Handheld receivers, and delivery of both views in real-time.
> 
> 3D content delivered in non-real-time.
> 
> "The addition of 3D-TV capability to the DTV broadcast standard will foster new broadcast services while preserving the integrity of legacy TV receivers by adopting a system that allows for simultaneous delivery of 2D HDTV, Mobile DTV, and 3D programs within the same channel while ensuring backwards compatibility," Richer said.
> 
> 
> The effort will be led by Dr. Youngkwon Lim, representing the Electronics and Telecommunication Research Institute (ETRI) in Daejon, South Korea. Dr. Richard Chernock, of Triveni Digital and Chair of the ATSC Technology & Standards Group, said, "Dr. Lim's extensive background in broadcast technology research and his experience in international standards development make him an excellent person to lead this important project."
> 
> 
> About the ATSC: The Advanced Television Systems Committee is an international, non-profit organization developing voluntary standards for digital television. The ATSC member organizations represent the broadcast, broadcast equipment, motion picture, consumer electronics, computer, cable, satellite, and semiconductor industries. For more information visit www.atsc.org
> 
> 
> END
> 
> 
> Media Contacts:
> 
> Lindsay Shelton-Gross, ATSC: (202) 872-9160
> 
> Dave Arland, Arland Communications: (317) 701-0084


----------



## dagger666

I have Winegard SS-3000 Amplified Indoor UHF/VHF Antenna on my kitchen and bedroom TVs. Bedroom it has done fine just need to adjust its direction to watch channel 7 and 11 but in the kitchen it never did better than channel 2 - 9







. I heard about the Leaf and found it looked pretty unimpressive but figured why not give it a shot. So I ordered one, watched the video on You Tube on how to hook it up which you have to follow closely because it makes a difference how it's placed. Used tape to hold it to the wall so I can move it around and gave it a try. From the first spot tried it grabbed 24 stations more than twice what the Winegard did. I needed to move it around a few time but now, "WOW" I got 34 stations







. Not only 2-9 but 11,13 which I haven't seen since analog broadcast ended







with a whole bunch of new channels. Don't ask me what makes the Leaf so much better than the Winegard SS-3000 Amplified Indoor UHF/VHF Antenna but it blows it away. With the Leaf I found inches makes a difference with reception so don't move it too far around when finding a spot for reception. Also don't position it on its side like the instruction says, follow its positioning closely and you will find this paper thin unimpressive looking antenna is truly impressive, well worth the cost. Oh i forgot to point out i'm around 13 miles from NY City in the glid path for JFK and i'm finding the Leaf isn't effected much by over flying planes or bad weather like the Winegard is. This is the same review i posted on amazon because it's all TRUE!


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20823783
> 
> 
> i could be mistaken but di vinci is also on retrotv ?....





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20823868
> 
> 
> It is indeed listed on Zap2it as being on my RTV station out of Allentown / Bethlehem (WFMZ 69.4) but I don't think it's actually been on yet. It's listed for Mondays @ midnight so I'll check it out tonight....



It wasn't on again last night. It was Cold Case Files (again) instead. Interestingly, even the program guide on my SIR TS360 had Da Vinci's Inquest listed for midnight. When I saw that, I thought they finally got it straightened out and it was actually going to be on. But it wuzn't.


I have previously emailed WFMZ about this situation but never got a response. That was weeks ago.


Frankly, I'm not particularly interested in it because I have recorded all of the episodes off ABC anyway (except for a few I've missed and the partial ones due to reception problems). There are just 5 episodes left on the ABC 7.1 run and I'm wondering if they are going to continue carrying it after it ends next month. I think they've been running it for at least 2 times through the entire series now. It's been at least 2 years and probably longer than that. It was also previously on WPVI ch 6.3 (or 6.2) out of Philly (also @ 1:30 AM -ish) but when that ended early last year they stopped showing it. That's when I decided to start recording it on 7.1 so that I'd have the entire series. I already had the first 3 seasons, which is all that was ever released on DVD (and apparently all that will ever be released).


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/20827747
> 
> 
> I have Winegard SS-3000 Amplified Indoor UHF/VHF Antenna on my kitchen and bedroom TVs. Bedroom it has done fine just need to adjust its direction to watch channel 7 and 11 but in the kitchen it never did better than channel 2 - 9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I heard about the Leaf and found it looked pretty unimpressive but figured why not give it a shot. So I ordered one, watched the video on You Tube on how to hook it up which you have to follow closely because it makes a difference how it's placed. Used tape to hold it to the wall so I can move it around and gave it a try. From the first spot tried it grabbed 24 stations more than twice what the Winegard did. I needed to move it around a few time but now, "WOW" I got 34 stations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Not only 2-9 but 11,13 which I haven't seen since analog broadcast ended
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with a whole bunch of new channels. Don't ask me what makes the Leaf so much better than the Winegard SS-3000 Amplified Indoor UHF/VHF Antenna but it blows it away. With the Leaf I found inches makes a difference with reception so don't move it too far around when finding a spot for reception. Also don't position it on its side like the instruction says, follow its positioning closely and you will find this paper thin unimpressive looking antenna is truly impressive, well worth the cost. Oh i forgot to point out i'm around 13 miles from NY City in the glid path for JFK and i'm finding the Leaf isn't effected much by over flying planes or bad weather like the Winegard is. This is the same review i posted on amazon because it's all TRUE!



someone opened one of these leaf antennas they said is basically double bow tie uhf inside the casing. if it works for you great. but i doubt that it will work great where i am, im sorrounding by 6 story buildings on every side im on street level apartement don;t have line of sight to anything. thxs for update


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20825220
> 
> 
> In all honesty, I can't understand the amount of anticipation for WCBS to diminish the quality of its signal (yes, there are those who can tell and appreciate the difference) to bring forth additional "programming" of questionable appeal.
> 
> 
> Do we really need this?
> 
> 
> I suspect not!!!!!!!!!!



If you do not have a LCD flat screen like my Aunt. Then you notice little no quality difference. Except for 11.3 11.4


So more programing is welcomed. Although I understand your point of view. We vote for more subs.


Even if her CRT TV breaks. Then she would get my older CRT that is one of the last CRTs built. With both analog and digital tuners built in. It is 480p at max quality. Although that is not HD it was considered the beginning of HD when it first came out. You would be surprised at the quality and colors in digital mode.


I wonder why the max is 19 megs when they send out the signal. Surely there must be a way to increase that. Or to compress it.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *keyboard21* 
I wonder why the max is 19 megs when they send out the signal. Surely there must be a way to increase that. Or to compress it. .
thats all that fits into 1 channel no more or no less possible that someone will come out with higher compression,but then it will be more noticeable.


----------



## T-Max

Yankee game tonight so I turned my antenna toward NYC and I'm getting the following readings (and have been since ~6:15 PM):


7 - solid 91%

11 - solid 85-86%

13 - solid 85-86%

4 - solid 87%

MY9 - solid 85% (surprisingly)


Very calm weather conditions so we'll see how it holds up over the course of the game which, BTW, starts tonight at 8 PM.


I also get WPHL MY17 out of Philly off the back of my antenna at this position, and at a very strong 90-something %. And thus I also have the Phillies/Arizona game tonight.


Since I got it all set up early, I got to see the Phillies' ceremony honoring Harry Kalas, which included the unveiling of a statute of Harry which will sit inside the park (postponed from Sunday because of the rainout) -

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/c...-statue-sunday 


I've been watching Phllies' games for quite sometime now and it was indeed special to listen to Harry call a game. As this article notes, it was as much 'the silence' as everything else about him that made him special:

_Harry Kalas’ home-run calls were legendary but those silences, those magnificent moments when you felt like you were there at the stadium, when you could feel the heavy humid summer’s night air, or the swirling winds of an approaching storm, were as much of what made Harry Kalas the greatest sports broadcaster in Philadelphia history as his voice, his charisma, his personality and those home-run calls._

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...lied-a-tribute 


I remember once during a Yankee broadcast (I think it was maybe last year?) when the announcer's booth apparently went out for a half inning or more and thus no announcers were heard calling the game during that time. But the sounds of the game and the crowd could still be heard. I don't know why that was, but it was. Maybe they did it on purpose? I doubt it, and I never heard that they did, but it was so great to just have the sounds of the game as you watched it happening.


It was indeed just like being there.


That's a lot of what you got with Harry. He was very understated in his calling of the game and was obviously beloved by the Phillies Phans. It's fitting that he should be so-honored, particularly since it was an entirely fan-funded, grass-roots effort.


End of OT rambling.


----------



## nycdigital09

i got admit kalas was a class act, I love his call of mike schmidts 500 hr back in late 1980's when i use to pickup all philly stations with my channle master uhf parabolic 4251


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20831141
> 
> 
> i got admit kalas was a class act, I love his call of mike schmidts 500 hr back in late 1980's when i use to pickup all philly stations with my channle master uhf parabolic 4251



Ballgame over, Yankees win and are in first place by 1/2 game


And MY9 reception flawless tonight. No issues at all.


That call was featured in tonight's tribute to Harry K. They played it at least twice.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20830573
> 
> 
> 
> I also get WPHL MY17 out of Philly off the back of my antenna at this position, and at a so-honored, particularly since it was an entirely fan-funded, grass-roots effort.
> 
> 
> .



t max you get all philly stations from your location, thats awesome, do you get a lock on wnjs ch22 from south jersey ?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20835493
> 
> 
> t max you get all philly stations from your location, thats awesome, do you get a lock on wnjs ch22 from south jersey ?



Yes, I get ch 23 WNJS, which is @ RF 22 out of Camden.


But I get ch 52 WNJN out of Trenton much better (RF 43) so that's what I watch. I get everything out of the Roxborough antenna farm plus WLVT ch 39 and WFMZ ch 69, both of which are out of Allentown / Bethlehem.


And I get all that at just one antenna position. I used to have to turn more toward Allentown and away from Philly to get those Allentown stations, but since everyone seems to have powered up and improved things since the transition, I get everything at just one position kinda midway between my ideal Philly and Allentown positions.


Getting WPHL ch 17 off the back side of the antenna when turned toward NYC is a bonus when both the Yankees and Phillies are playing at the same time and being carried by MY9 and MY17, as was the case last night. I can switch back and forth and keep up on both games.


If I had another TV, I could have them both on at the same time since I have several tuner boxes. But splitting my antenna cable makes MY9 reception even more iffy, so I wouldn't do it unless I can get that one stronger.


It was nice and strong throughout the game last night. Just a very few glitches, and they didn't amount to anything.


I hope that's a sign of things to come.


----------



## nycdigital09

t max you said you don;t use a preamp for your antenna, I think that it will probably help with wor9, if you're not near other tv transmitters you probably won't get any overload, a winegard or channel master would probably max your signal to 100% on most channels. (no pun intended) your using a vu190 i remember that antenna, next higher one was the vu210. if i remember correctly the antenna is close to 17 feet long. I haved used the vu160 before, pretty descent antenna it pulls in vhf fm signals excellently. if you ask me the ratshack antennas were very good perform wise. their hifi equipment gets a bad rep. I read that radio shack were selling the vu210 for $5 when they were phasing them out a few year back. max you can probably still pick up the rat shack preamp for $2.99 each. they are in process of being phase out. I bought 3 of them i paid $8 last month. I want to sell them at ebay for $19 each thats the selling price i seen on ebay. solidsignal sells them for $24.99 you might still find some in a ratshack store. btw yanks are on wor9 2nite. love to hear about your signal gripes


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20827716
> 
> http://www.atsc.org/cms/index.php/co...-transmissions



This might be a waste. I havent bothered looking at the numbers but I bet many are already losing interest in 3D yet again.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20837555
> 
> 
> t max you said you don;t use a preamp for your antenna, I think that it will probably help with wor9, if you're not near other tv transmitters you probably won't get any overload, a winegard or channel master would probably max your signal to 100% on most channels. (no pun intended) ...you can probably still pick up the rat shack preamp for $2.99 each....



I'll check it out. I think I might be able to afford 3 bucks.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20837555
> 
> 
> ....your using a vu190 i remember that antenna, next higher one was the vu210. if i remember correctly the antenna is close to 17 feet long. I haved used the vu160 before, pretty descent antenna it pulls in vhf fm signals excellently. if you ask me the ratshack antennas were very good perform wise. their hifi equipment gets a bad rep. I read that radio shack were selling the vu210 for $5 when they were phasing them out a few year back....



I got this one probably 10+ years ago for free when it didn't sell at a local garage sale and ended up on the "free" pile at the end of the day. It was brand new in the box. I attended the sale (nearby) earlier and they said they bought it and put it up to avoid having to get cable, but they got nothing with the antenna so they took it right down. They are closer to the ridge than I am and in a bad spot for Philly, so I'm not surprised. I passed on it but made sure to drive by later to see if it was still there and got it for free. It's a nice antenna but it is BIG and catches a LOT of wind.


> Quote:
> ... btw yanks are on wor9 2nite. love to hear about your signal gripes...



Reception tonight for the game was a solid 85-86% to start. That's excellent reception for me since even a solid 84% would be fine. Anything less is no good. Then around 9:15 it became iffy. It's been in and out since but there's thunderstorms in the area which may account. It's close to 9:45 now and it's more out than in, so I'm mostly on the radio for the game. But I saw all the scoring so far. Yanks lead 3-2 after 4.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20840099
> 
> 
> But I saw all the scoring so far. Yanks lead 3-2 after 4.



radio shack antenna were around forever, so you got a great deal (free)


is 6-2 after 7 innings, eagles are getting their bell rung by steelers, i been hearing the eagles are going to superbowl with all those players they acquired, maybe not


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20825141
> 
> 
> With OTA making up less than 10% of any station's viewership....



Disagree.


Although there is no widely accepted way to gauge OTA viewers, a recent article says 15% of viewers use OTA only, which is on the rise from last year.

http://www.telecompetitor.com/report...t-only-for-tv/ 


It's also generally accepted a much larger percentage use OTA in addition to a TV provider, for sets in secondary viewing areas; bedrooms, garages, etc.


----------



## Ken H

Moderators Note: Although I'm sure many are interested in baseball, some readers are not. A brief mention on occasion is fine, but in general please keep on topic.


----------



## AloEuro

( Daystar) 42-4 Hot TV extremely weak signal 0-15 0-15


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* /forum/post/20837783
> 
> 
> This might be a waste. I havent bothered looking at the numbers but I bet many are already losing interest in 3D yet again.



3D now is a waste of time and resources especially for ATSC-8VSB and MPEG-2 compression. Broadcasters and consumers would be far better off if the ATSC first develop the proposed future system (ATSC-3.0?) based on multiple carriers. That is the only know way to counter multipath, indoors and also for Rx tethered to a rooftop antenna. After that is done, work on 3D.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20840099
> 
> 
> ...Reception tonight for the game was a solid 85-86% to start. That's excellent reception for me since even a solid 84% would be fine. Anything less is no good. Then around 9:15 it became iffy. It's been in and out since but there's thunderstorms in the area which may account. It's close to 9:45 now and it's more out than in, so I'm mostly on the radio for the game...



My MY9 reception came back at 10 PM (shortly after that post) and was basically solid throughout the rest of the game and during some of the postgame show I stayed to watch, so I had good reception from 10 PM to at least 11:30 PM. Maybe the iffy reception for about 45 minutes from 9:15 to 10 PM was due to thunderstorm activity?


I also note that I have a maple tree right in the line of sight of my MY9 antenna position, which is probably not more than 50 feet from the antenna (so it's pretty close) and which has now grown tall enough to entirely block that line of sight. I'm sure that's not helping my NCY reception and from what I understand, it will affect UHF more than VHF. So I would expect it to affect MY9 (RF 38) more than ch 7 (RF 7) or 11 or 13. But frankly, I don't think it has any effect to speak of on my reception of any of those channels. I'd have to cut it out of the way to be sure, but I doubt I'll be doing that unless I'm convinced it needs to go. It shouldn't have any effect in the winter when the leaves are off, and I think my summer / winter reception percentages are essentially the same.


But that tree is something to consider, I suppose.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/20842007
> 
> 
> Moderators Note: Although I'm sure many are interested in baseball, some readers are not. A brief mention on occasion is fine, but in general please keep on topic.



What readers? You mean those whiny Red Sox fans? They can't hack the fact that the Yankees are in 1st place and their Big Fat Papi is wearing a bootie?


Even tho' I've made clear that I only watch MY9 because of the Yankee games, and I THINK maybe OTA folks might be interested in my MY9 reception (since it IS OTA, after all), I'm sorry that I mentioned the Yankees in my MY9posts. I wouldn't want to upset any crybaby Red Sox fans so I'll refrain from now on. Maybe I'll only mention the scores when the Bosox are winning. I bet they wouldn't run to complain THEN.


I mean, really.


P.S.: I hope this post stays up long enough for those complainers to see it.


----------



## SnellKrell

Originally Posted by Ken H

Moderators Note: Although I'm sure many are interested in baseball, some readers are not. A brief mention on occasion is fine, but in general please keep on topic.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Disagree.
> 
> 
> Although there is no widely accepted way to gauge OTA viewers, a recent article says 15% of viewers use OTA only, which is on the rise from last year.
> 
> http://www.telecompetitor.com/report...t-only-for-tv/
> 
> 
> It's also generally accepted a much larger percentage use OTA in addition to a TV provider, for sets in secondary viewing areas; bedrooms, garages, etc.


 http://mashable.com/2011/06/10/hdtv-broadcasts-poll/ 
http://www.dtvusaforum.com/content/1...last-year.html 


Numbers vary depending on who u ask but bottom line is that its a small percentage and stations don't treat a transmitter failure the way they treated it 20 years ago. Outside of folks on AVS and those in the business I work with, i don't know anyone using OTA.


----------



## nycdigital09

there was a transmitter failure of antennatv around 8.30 pm during the end of good times. the screen went blank then after a few minutes on top of screen said NO SIGNAL this went on for ten to fifteen minutes it was right about the same time that we had the thunderstorm. possible that antenna at esb got hit by a bolt of lighting . anyone else see this last night.


----------



## nyctveng

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09*
there was a transmitter failure of antennatv around 8.30 pm during the end of good times. the screen went blank then after a few minutes on top of screen said NO SIGNAL this went on for ten to fifteen minutes it was right about the same time that we had the thunderstorm. possible that antenna at esb got hit by a bolt of lighting . anyone else see this last night.
Sounds like the downlink from satellite to WPIX was interrupted due to weather. No signal on screen was probably from the IRD that receives Antenna TV.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20845539
> 
> 
> Sounds like the downlink from satellite to WPIX was interrupted due to weather. No signal on screen was probably from the IRD that receives Antenna TV.



True, possible that it was rainfade.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20846689
> 
> 
> True, possible that it was rainfade.



:-(


----------



## Ken H

Off topic comments deleted.


----------



## jpru34

I have been having some split-second audio disruptions and pixellation of the screen on WPIx (channel 11) the past 3-5 days. It is weird because reception is pretty steady in the low-80's according to my signal strength meter. Could be the weather but it was happening even when there was not any thunder or lightning.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/20852651
> 
> 
> I have been having some split-second audio disruptions and pixellation of the screen on WPIx (channel 11) the past 3-5 days. It is weird because reception is pretty steady in the low-80's according to my signal strength meter. Could be the weather but it was happening even when there was not any thunder or lightning.



If your SNR becomes marginal due to dynamic echoes, fading or interference, ATSC reception becomes intermittent or lost regardless of the strength of the primary signal incident on the antenna.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/20842040
> 
> 
> ( Daystar) 42-4 Hot TV extremely weak signal 0-15 0-15



I just checked retrotv, signal strength is coming in ok, must be your area, lots of people are also having difficulty receiving their signal, especially late in the night. can you aim your antenna north east maybe you can pickup wsah ch43 rf42 out of bridgeport, ct that station also carries retrotv. I happened to pickup that station most of the time, btw what does hot tv stand for? i always flip thru that station, lots of old programming. the only showed i watched so far was dusty's trail with bob denver (Gilligan)


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
I just checked retrotv, signal strength is coming in ok...
Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
It wasn't on again last night. It was Cold Case Files (again) instead. Interestingly, even the program guide on my SIR TS360 had Da Vinci's Inquest listed for midnight. When I saw that, I thought they finally got it straightened out and it was actually going to be on. But it wuzn't.


I have previously emailed WFMZ about this situation but never got a response. That was weeks ago.
nycdigital09,


The "It" in "It wasn't on again last night" was referring to Da Vinci's Inquest as supposedly being carried by WFMZ 69.4 (RTV).


I emailed them again this morning and got a reply that I think has straightened that all out (supposedly). It appears that they ARE broadcasting it, but they have it wrong on their schedule (and thus so does Zap2it). It's listed for Tuesday morning at midnight to 1 AM, but it's actually on Monday morning at midnight to 1 AM.


That's what they tell me.


So I'd have to tune in Sunday night just before midnight, not Monday night just before midnight, which is what I've been doing.


Now, my question to you is -- what schedule are you going by for your RTV viewing? Are you using Zap2it or your station's schedule (if they have one)?


And is Da Vinci on when they say it is, or are they also getting it wrong?


I suppose I could just change my Zap2it "location" to reflect "your" RTV channel, and thus find out for myself. Maybe I'll do that.


I assume you're watching a different RTV station (not WFMZ)?


My current OTA "location" on Zap2it is Flemington (even tho' I'm in Bridgewater) because that gives me all the Philly stations, which is what I primarily watch. I get some NYC listings as well, but no RTV listing out of NYC. The only RTV listing I get with that location is WFMZ 69.4


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
My MY9 reception came back at 10 PM (shortly after that post) and was basically solid throughout the rest of the game and during some of the postgame show I stayed to watch, so I had good reception from 10 PM to at least 11:30 PM. Maybe the iffy reception for about 45 minutes from 9:15 to 10 PM was due to thunderstorm activity?...
Well, now that we can't talk baseball, and since we're approaching the end of the baseball season (although there WILL be the post-season to talk about; but since that's not on MY9 I won't have cause to mention it on this forum), maybe we can talk......


FOOTBALL!


Just kidding










I did watch a considerable amount of the Giants' pre-season game last night (on MY9) and my reception was quite good. I'll be watching the Yankees again tonight, so I'm hopeful that it's at least as good as it was last night.


I checked my signal strength several times during my viewing last night and it was pretty much always at a pretty solid 84%, with the occasional jump up to 85%. I did get some minor dropouts and loss of reception, but that's to be expected when it's at 84%, which is the minimum I need for basically solid reception (no issues). If it drops below that, I'm going to get spotty reception.


So a SOLID 84% will give me issue-free reception. That's essentially what I had last night, although there's no such thing as an absolutely solid reception percentage at any particular level. I've learned that much about this OTA stuff.


For MY9, my experience is that if I can get a relatively solid 85%, I'll have basically issue-free viewing. Anything above 85% just gives me "more solid" reception.


So after I was done watching the game, I fine-tuned my antenna position and found that I was actually watching the game at a position that was not the optimal position. I had a better position which gave me basically a solid 85%. I'm hoping I can get the same result tonight.


All this is just to note that I'm thinking maybe MY9 has done something to improve their signal. And that maybe the recent problems I've been having are due to some work they've been doing?


I dunno. Maybe it's just atmospheric conditions.


If they haven't done anything, then I'm hopeful that they will go ahead with their proposed improvements as per their construction permit. If they do that, then I should get them without any further issues to speak of.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20857735
> 
> 
> ....I suppose I could just change my Zap2it "location" to reflect "your" RTV channel, and thus find out for myself. Maybe I'll do that....



I put in LenL's zip code (Randolph) and it looks like ch 42.3 WKOBLD3 has Da Vinci on every weeknight at 11PM. I wish I had it that often. I only get one episode a week and although I have almost all on DVD now, I am missing some episodes either completely or partially.


I trust they're not just running the same episode every night?


If not, it's interesting that RTV would feed WKOB a different episode every night and give WFMZ just one episode a week. But I guess that's likely because it's up to WFMZ and WKOB to decide what they want to do.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20855999
> 
> 
> ... btw what does hot tv stand for? i always flip thru that station, lots of old programming. the only showed i watched so far was dusty's trail with bob denver (Gilligan)



_March 31, 2011: WKOB-LD has added HOT TV: History Of Television on 42.4. HOT TV is a classic TV station featuring TV shows and movies from the 1940s through the early 1960s._

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WKOB-LD


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
it looks like ch 42.3 WKOBLD3 has Da Vinci on every weeknight at 11PM. I wish I had it that often. I only get one episode a week and although I have almost all on DVD now, .
hey T wkob does show Da Vinci every night and it is a different episode also

been watchin the Saint with roger moore is not a bad show is a little cheesy but he is a badass with his cigarette smokin. lots of hot looking women on that show.


you should be able to get wkob from your location looka here http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1357397&map=Y


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
hey T wkob does show Da Vinci every night and it is a different episode also

been watchin the Saint with roger moore is not a bad show is a little cheesy but he is a badass with his cigarette smokin. lots of hot looking women on that show.


you should be able to get wkob from your location looka here http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1357397&map=Y
Thanks for that invo on DaV.


As to WKOB, I'm a bit too far away to get it. Never have locked it in.


----------



## nycdigital09

Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
As to WKOB, I'm a bit too far away to get it. Never have locked it in.
looking at map looks like there is a ridge east of you that supposedly has good reception if you live near there. that ridge also blocks nyc reception for wor9 ?


Len lives in randolph where the terrain wise is higher elevation than most of us, his elevation is 500 ft above sea level. mine is 85 feet. thats good, most of nyc is sea level or little above that.


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
looking at map looks like there is a ridge east of you that supposedly has good reception if you live near there. that ridge also blocks nyc reception for wor9 ?


Len lives in randolph where the terrain wise is higher elevation than most of us, his elevation is 500 ft above sea level. mine is 85 feet. thats good, most of nyc is sea level or little above that.
That's the ridge that blocks me. I'm too close to the base of it. Not sure it would help if I were farther away from it but it's a problem for me where I am, that's for sure.


Although my MY9 reception is excellent so far tonight. 8:18 PM right now.


----------



## keyboard21

WOW still no news on CBS new sub? When is it coming out and what will be on it?


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20860014
> 
> 
> WOW still no news on CBS new sub? When is it coming out and what will be on it?



Instead of asking this question every week, why don't you call or e-mail them directly for an answer?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20858490
> 
> 
> I put in LenL's zip code (Randolph) and it looks like ch 42.3 WKOBLD3 has Da Vinci on every weeknight at 11PM. I wish I had it that often. I only get one episode a week and although I have almost all on DVD now, I am missing some episodes either completely or partially.
> 
> 
> I trust they're not just running the same episode every night?
> 
> 
> If not, it's interesting that RTV would feed WKOB a different episode every night and give WFMZ just one episode a week. But I guess that's likely because it's up to WFMZ and WKOB to decide what they want to do.



Sorry to disappoint you but not one of my 3 antennas can pick this station up.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20861012
> 
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you but not one of my 3 antennas can pick this station up.



I'm not surprised and certainly not disappointed. Why would you think I'd be disappointed??


It's a very weak station and since you're about as far away as I am, I didn't think you'd necessarily be getting it. I only used your zip for Zap2it so that I could get the NYC stations listing.


After I posted, and with my antenna still in my NYC position, I did a check on the signal strength for RF 2 and it registered 2-3%. I need something above 81% to lock a station, and can't actually watch one even at that level.


Interestingly, TV Fool lists this station (for me) just below WLVT and just above WWOR (MY9), and significantly above some stations that I do receive like ch 2 and ch 4 (WCBS & WNBC), both of which I get at a good strength. Which means they think I should be getting it, and getting it rather strongly.


Tells me something about the reliablity of TV Fool's estimate as to which stations I can receive. WLVT is one of my strongest stations and they've got it listed just above WKOB, which hardly registers at all on my signal meter.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20861636
> 
> 
> 
> Tells me something about the reliablity of TV Fool's estimate as to which stations I can receive. WLVT is one of my strongest stations and they've got it listed just above WKOB, which hardly registers at all on my signal meter.



tv fool is known to be faulty at best. I kind of trust rabbitears.info maps with long-rice calculations. google longley-rice calculations, they explain how they calculate their findings. alpine, nj has an elevation of over 500 feet and line of signt in all directions that area is one of the best for tv reception, from there you can receive philly stations taking in consideration that is further to alpine than it is nyc, elevation plays a big part in tv reception.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20861636
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised and certainly not disappointed. Why would you think I'd be disappointed??
> 
> 
> It's a very weak station and since you're about as far away as I am, I didn't think you'd necessarily be getting it. I only used your zip for Zap2it so that I could get the NYC stations listing.
> 
> 
> After I posted, and with my antenna still in my NYC position, I did a check on the signal strength for RF 2 and it registered 2-3%. I need something above 81% to lock a station, and can't actually watch one even at that level.
> 
> 
> Interestingly, TV Fool lists this station (for me) just below WLVT and just above WWOR (MY9), and significantly above some stations that I do receive like ch 2 and ch 4 (WCBS & WNBC), both of which I get at a good strength. Which means they think I should be getting it, and getting it rather strongly.
> 
> 
> Tells me something about the reliablity of TV Fool's estimate as to which stations I can receive. WLVT is one of my strongest stations and they've got it listed just above WKOB, which hardly registers at all on my signal meter.



TV Fool does not do a very good job for me either and I think it just can't calculate my issue with being on the side of a hill that is between me and the ESB. My LOS is very sketchy because I am the 6th house down from the top of the hill my street is on. If I was even one house further up (my next door neighbors) I'm sure my reception would be measureably better. However I should not complain as I do get all the major channels very well except for 11.1 and 13.1. Since I don't really watch PIX 11 programming anyway and much of what is on 13.1 can be found on NJTV 50.1 or 58.1 (which I get quite well) I am as I said happy and lucky for what I do receive.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/20860468
> 
> 
> Instead of asking this question every week, why don't you call or e-mail them directly for an answer?



Great please post their contact email for info for substations. Before you look. There is none.


Also that last info said 3rd quarter of 2011. So I am checking every FEW weeks. Not every week.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20862205
> 
> 
> Great please post their contact email for info for substations. Before you look. There is none.
> 
> 
> Also that last info said 3rd quarter of 2011. So I am checking every FEW weeks. Not every week.



Should we be expecting WBBM to reveal this information to their viewers over AVSForum, or will they leak it to a forum poster who will make that announcement for them? Is it certain the original info was credible, or was someone just speculating?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/20862426
> 
> 
> Should we be expecting WBBM to reveal this information to their viewers over AVSForum, or will they leak it to a forum poster who will make that announcement for them? Is it certain the original info was credible, or was someone just speculating?



George, it was originally announced in this article: http://www.smartbrief.com/news/nab/s...&&campaign=rss 


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20862433
> 
> 
> George, it was originally announced in this article: http://www.smartbrief.com/news/nab/s...&&campaign=rss
> 
> 
> - Trip



thanks to google cache for bypassing paywalls, apparently the CBS subchannel will go live late september called CBS New York Plus:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...www.google.com 



> Quote:
> Networks 'Casting About For New Revenue
> 
> Stations nationwide watching how O&Os use multicast tier
> 
> 
> By Michael Malone -- Broadcasting & Cable, 8/8/2011 12:01:00 AM
> 
> 
> 
> As the fall season approaches, the network-owned station groups are making significant changes to their digital channel game plans, including signing up affiliate partners (ABC), honing a group-wide strategy (NBC), or simply getting a new channel on the air (CBS).
> 
> 
> While multicast channels don't yet represent a major ratings or revenue driver for stations, the nation's most influential station groups are showing that subchannels are more than a place to stash Sanford and Son reruns or their own rehashed news and weather. The whole point of Live Well Network was not to go down the road of reruns, says Emily Barr, president/ general manager of WLS Chicago and principal at the ABC Owned Television Stations' Live Well Network. It was how to craft a digital network with original programming.
> 
> 
> First out with a digital channel in March 2009 was NBC, with New York Nonstop. Now, NBC Owned Television Stations boasts Nonstop channels in nine markets, representing all owned stations except WVIT Hartford-New Haven. (A joint California Nonstop is shared by KNTV San Francisco, KNBC Los Angeles and KNSD San Diego.) Each features 7 p.m. local news and an array of local talk and entertainment shows. Some, such as Open House and Foodies, are customized to air in multiple markets.
> 
> 
> NBC's stations are poised to post a key new job for the Nonstop network: an executive producer to oversee all non-news programming, who will be tasked with identifying programs that will resonate in multiple, and perhaps all, Nonstop markets. It represents a more cohesive network strategy across the group, says Greg Scholl, the group's president of local integrated media.
> 
> 
> While ABC has been successful in signing up affiliates for Live Well five Belo stations started airing Live Well last NovemberNBC has thus far not taken that tack with Nonstop. It's certainly an interesting avenue to pursue, says Scholl.
> 
> 
> On the heels of Nonstop's debut was Live Well Network, the health-minded channel from ABC that primarily airs programs created within the ABC owned group. Barr speaks of Live Well's multiple revenue streams, with stations outside the group signing on to air Live Well. Besides a number of Belo outlets, station partners include the two ABC affiliates sold to Lilly Broadcasting, WTVG Toledo and WJRT Flint, and another station owned by LKK Group. On Aug. 1, Scripps' WXYZ Detroit debuted Live Well, and the bulk of the Scripps group is set to launch it Sept. 5.
> 
> 
> ABC splits ad revenue with affiliate partners. Live Well's principals are speaking with several other groups about picking up the channel. We should definitely have a handful of announcements in the next week or so, says Peggy Allen, Live Well VP of programming.
> 
> 
> After KTRK Houston's shopping program Deals debuted in July, September will mark the debut of two shows on Live Well: the 30-minute Live Big With Ali Vincent, starring the former Biggest Loser winner and produced by KABC Los Angeles; and hour-long Steven and Chris, which focuses on home, fashion and food and comes out of Canada. The latter is something of an anomaly for a group that prides itself on its DIY approach. We have a few acquisitions, but our thrust is original shows, says Allen. It's an unbelievably efficient model.
> 
> 
> Six ABC owned stations produce their own shows, all of which are available in HD, while the two others WABC New York and WTVD Raleighcontribute to the shows as well. Affiliates outside the group have spoken about possibly contributing to the programming mix, but that hasn't yet come to fruition. Everyone's expressed interest, but so far no one's stepped forward and said, Here's a concept we want to produce,' says Barr, who proudly mentions the 14,000 downloads of the Live Well mobile app.
> 
> *CBS, for its part, will launch subchannels in New York and Los Angeles in late September before rolling out the model throughout the group's news stations. The digital channels appear to be as much an extension of the joint Websites representing CBS-owned TV stations and their news and sports radio colleagues in a market as they are extensions of the on-air outlet. They will feature news, sports and weather in a wheel format, with a smattering of entertainment programming from within the CBS family, such as concert footage from the radio group.
> 
> 
> The channels will be named CBS New York Plus, CBS Los Angeles Plus, etc. Ezra Kucharz, CBS' local digital media president, is overseeing the launch.
> 
> 
> Peter Dunn, president of the CBS owned stations, says the subchannels represent a savvy way to turn existing content into extra revenue. It's a great way to pick up business by packaging all of our assets for new business development, he says.*
> 
> 
> Fox has not revealed plans for multicasting, but is about halfway through a master control centralization process at its owned stations, which would help clear up space for extra channels. The group may dedicate some of its multicast bandwidth to mobile DTV for its Fox stations, but not for its MyNetworkTV affiliates.
> 
> 
> Earl Arbuckle, Fox Television Stations' VP of engineering, says a potential digital channel would either be a homegrown effort, with content kicked in by the owned stations, or a partnership with an existing net. We're actively looking at it, says Arbuckle. The odds are around 90-95% that we'll do something by the end of the year.
> 
> 
> The digital channel landscape is, in a word, packed. There are Spanish-language channels such as LATV and Estrella TV. Bounce TV will air programming for black viewers starting Sept. 26. There are sports networks, such as NBC's Universal Sports and Tuff TV. There are children's and health channels, such as Ion's Qubo and Ion Life. There are entertainment networks such as This TV, while the classic hits category seems to have more offerings than the Bradys had kids, including Me-TV, Antenna TV and RTV.
> 
> 
> Stations view the channels as a narrow-focus content play, as opposed to the broad-appeal programming on their main channel. Raycom was the first station group to sign up for Bounce TV, seeing it as a logical fit for its markets. I look at a lot of markets where we're 30-plus percent African-American, Paul McTear, president and CEO, recently told B&C. We believe we haven't done a very good job of bringing product that is unique and special to that audience.
> 
> 
> Also attractive to stations is that most digital networks provide windows for local programming, including breaking news when the station sticks with major network programming on the main channel. But typically located in the channel placement boondocks, ratings and revenue are hard to come by for digital channels. Antenna TV cracks a 0.6 or 0.7 household rating in some markets, says Sean Compton, president of programming at Antenna parent Tribune, while Barr says Live Well's 0.2 and 0.3 ratings are very modest, but growing.
> 
> 
> Revenue is a tough nut to crack, too; no one would share details of their channel's similarly modest earning power. It's a lot of expense, says Compton. You don't just turn the key, from a revenue standpoint.
> 
> 
> But Barr says Live Well has station staffs energized about creating shows once again. Everyone got into this business for their love of production, she says. It's a tremendous opportunity for creative types to scratch the itch.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20862163
> 
> 
> .... However I should not complain as I do get all the major channels very well except for 11.1 and 13.1...



Hmmmm. I'm surprised you don't get them. According to your prior posts, your MY9 reception is better than mine and I get both 11.1 and 13.1 (and subs) quite well. They (like MY9) are kinda on the edge but certainly watchable for the most part.


And you're on a hill while I'm up against the bottom of a ridge that blocks my LOS to NYC, so I'd expect your reception of these two to be better.


Then again, I suppose you don't really have a VHF antenna, so that probably accounts? Do you get 7 at all? It's even lower VHF but from my observations it's a stronger signal than the other two.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20863504
> 
> 
> Hmmmm. I'm surprised you don't get them. According to your prior posts, your MY9 reception is better than mine and I get both 11.1 and 13.1 (and subs) quite well. They (like MY9) are kinda on the edge but certainly watchable for the most part.
> 
> 
> And you're on a hill while I'm up against the bottom of a ridge that blocks my LOS to NYC, so I'd expect your reception of these two to be better.
> 
> 
> Then again, I suppose you don't really have a VHF antenna, so that probably accounts? Do you get 7 at all? It's even lower VHF but from my observations it's a stronger signal than the other two.



While I am on a hill, I am on the wrong side of it. Yes, I get 7.1 quite well by all 3 antennas. It is a bit strange why I get both 7.1 and 58.1 (8.1) quite well but have little success with 11.1 and 13.1 but it just might be my antennas are just not good at high VHF.


----------



## LenL

I'd be interested in who looses their antenna during the hit we take from Irene. Right now I am thinking if we get the storm they say we are going to get I may loose all 3 where I am at!


Also who know what will happen to the equipment at the EBS! Some of the antennas may come down there too!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20867064
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in who looses their antenna during the hit we take from Irene. Right now I am thinking if we get the storm they say we are going to get I may loose all 3 where I am at!
> 
> 
> Also who know what will happen to the equipment at the EBS! Some of the antennas may come down there too!



antenna shooting like missiles everywhere i'm a bit more worried of a tree coming down, I got a tree in front of my house thats probably gonna go. antenna direct has a lifetime replacement might just have to give them a ring with about 20 thousand other folks doing the same


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20867904
> 
> 
> antenna shooting like missiles everywhere i'm a bit more worried of a tree coming down, I got a tree in front of my house thats probably gonna go. antenna direct has a lifetime replacement might just have to give them a ring with about 20 thousand other folks doing the same



And you guys always made fun of my indoor antenna. lol










I bet there will be service interruption though


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20867064
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in who looses their antenna during the hit we take from Irene. Right now I am thinking if we get the storm they say we are going to get I may loose all 3 where I am at!
> 
> 
> Also who know what will happen to the equipment at the EBS! Some of the antennas may come down there too!



I'm thinking I will take my RS Model VU-190 XR antenna down for this event. It's coming out my roof peak and about 50 feet off the ground at the top. It's a monster and catches a lot of wind. That'll probably mean I can't do my usual Monday morning 1:35 AM recording, but maybe things will be calm enough by then and I can get it back up for that. Assuming WABC is on the air then.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20865336
> 
> 
> While I am on a hill, I am on the wrong side of it. Yes, I get 7.1 quite well by all 3 antennas. It is a bit strange why I get both 7.1 and 58.1 (8.1) quite well but have little success with 11.1 and 13.1 but it just might be my antennas are just not good at high VHF.



You know, 11-1,2,3,4 have one of the better programming from all networks,you do not see Benny Hill Friday 2hrs. marathon Sat.repeat on-4, some good 20-30 years ago made movies never heard about, Estrilla R rated night shows,etc.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20855999
> 
> 
> I just checked retrotv, signal strength is coming in ok, must be your area, lots of people are also having difficulty receiving their signal, especially late in the night. can you aim your antenna north east maybe you can pickup wsah ch43 rf42 out of bridgeport, ct that station also carries retrotv. I happened to pickup that station most of the time, btw what does hot tv stand for? i always flip thru that station, lots of old programming. the only showed i watched so far was dusty's trail with bob denver (Gilligan)



Sometime 42ch. has strong signal, most of the time it seems they are off the air, otherwise lot's of pixelation and it is not worth to move Antenna, gain on one side may to be loss of other stations.

The Hot TV, as reported by others, is primarily b/w, only commercials in color


----------



## Aero 1

so whos taking down their antenna because of irene?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20870535
> 
> 
> so whos taking down there antenna because of irene?



More important will the Master Antenna's on ESB be able to withstand 100 mph winds?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20871249
> 
> 
> More important will the Master Antenna's on ESB be able to withstand 100 mph winds?



I don't know about the esb, but i'm coming over to your place keyboard, where do you live










my prophetic wisdom says that irene is gonna be a close miss, is just hyped news, only happened once before that hurricane has hit nyc circa 1821. is gonna hit n. carolina and then veer to atlantic ocean. thats it.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20871513
> 
> 
> I don't about esb, but i'm coming over to your place keyboard, where do you live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my prophetic wisdom says that irene is gonna be a close miss, is just hyped news



Maybe. But it looks pretty mean at the moment -

http://www.wfmz.com/weather/accuwx-l...7/-/index.html 


You can zoom in and out on that radar map and also move it around. Zoom out one click and move it up a bit so that you get Irene in the field of view and check it out. Unless it weakens quite a bit before it gets here, it looks like it could be nasty.


And it might weaken if it continues to move inland before it gets here.


Pieces of it are now reaching almost to Baltimore. I'm sure we'll hear about that on tonight's Yankees game and I dunno if they will be able to play at all this weekend. Looks like they could get rained out both days.


I'm definitely taking my antenna down.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20871633
> 
> 
> 
> I'm definitely taking my antenna down.



do you have a backup antenna, rabbitears or indoor can you still pickup philly ota with indoor ? no yankees on 9 only yes


----------



## nycdigital09

I don't know if Irene is affecting everyones reception yet, but wliw ch21 is coming in choppy, with lots pixeling. I get this channel solidly. there is no wind to speak of. also ch12 ion is coming in stronger than it usually does. Irene is starting to pi__ off


----------



## keyboard21

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
I don't know about the esb, but i'm coming over to your place keyboard, where do you live








Why don't you try answering your PMS first









Tried 10 times.


I guess this is where a indoor antenna comes in handy. All that talk about forcing landlord to let me put antenna on side of building. Was all for NOT lol


----------



## mikepier

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Aero 1* 
so whos taking down their antenna because of irene?
It would be interesting to see what goes out first, my cable service, or my OTA service.


Guess it does not really matter if my electric service goes out first.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20872518
> 
> 
> Why don't you try answering your PMS first
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tried 10 times.



really




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20872518
> 
> 
> I guess this is where a indoor antenna comes in handy. All that talk about forcing landlord to let me put antenna on side of building. Was all for NOT lol



is your aunt getting exceptional reception with the turk

maybe you can get her a leaf antenna


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20872919
> 
> 
> really
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is your aunt getting exceptional reception with the turk
> 
> maybe you can get her a leaf antenna



Yes pls check your PM status again and send a test pm and a test e-mail to . Something I want to talk to you about


The terk-55 works just fine. She gets more stations then most. I heard the leaf antenna was pure garbage. Is that true?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20871633
> 
> 
> ...I'm definitely taking my antenna down.



Done!


And I see from the radar (see the link in that post) that some heavy rain is likely to hit me pretty soon. Given that I needed to be up on my roof to take that monster down, I wasn't interested in doing it in the rain.


Not to mention the wind.


If I'm lucky, I'll be able to put it back up sometime tomorrow afternoon or evening so's I don't miss my Sunday late-night recording session.


I'll probably be posting at times tomorrow to ask if ABC is still on the air. No point in hurrying to put it back up if they aren't operational.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20874279
> 
> 
> Done!
> 
> 
> And I see from the radar (see the link in that post) that some heavy rain is likely to hit me pretty soon. Given that I needed to be up on my roof to take that monster down, I wasn't interested in doing it in the rain.



you took it down allready, did you have any help with the behemoth ?


try installing a cheap preamp (radio shack see if it helps reception ?


do you get philly stations with indoor antenna ?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20874279
> 
> 
> ...If I'm lucky, I'll be able to put it back up sometime tomorrow afternoon or evening so's I don't miss my Sunday late-night recording session.



This storm track link -

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...=strip#Scene_1 


has Irene arriving here around 9:00 to 10:00 tomorrow morning. Judging by how far it's moved since 8:00 this morning, which is also shown on the track, I'd say I have a shot at getting my antenna back up by 1:00 AM Monday, which will be in time for my recording session.


Of course, it'll all depend on how quickly it moves away after it gets here. But I think I've got a good shot. If I can get it up anytime before 1 AM, I can check out my RTV station (WFMZ 69.4) and see what episode of Da Vinci they are showing. That is, assuming they are actually broadcasting it as they say they are.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20874308
> 
> 
> ... did you have any help with the behemoth ?



No.


Because of the way I have it mounted, I am able to just lower it down several feet (just slide it down) which then allows me access to the antenna itself (at the top of the mast). I had planned to remove the antenna from the mast after lowering it, but then I decided to just pull it back up and out of it's mount and move the thing with the mast attached.


Bad idea, but I got it done without any problems or damage.


I will almost surely take it off the mast tomorrow and put that in place before bringing the antenna up onto the roof and attaching it back onto the mast.


Doing it in two parts should be really easy.


I (of course) collapsed all the VHF elements before removing it (by folding them in) .


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
...Of course, it'll all depend on how quickly it moves away after it gets here. ....
That storm tracker now has the storm way up in northern Maine, well above Montreal, at 2:00 AM on Monday. So it looks like it should be well out of here by midnight tomorrow.


----------



## Aero 1

my antenna held up great. esb held up great. not one stutter or drop in my signal at all. it was just another sunny, clear day in my OTA reception.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20877061
> 
> 
> my antenna held up great. esb held up great. not one stutter or drop in my signal at all. it was just another sunny, clear day in my OTA reception.



I assume you're getting ch 7.1 OTA?


Here in Bridgewater the winds are REALLY picking up. It stopped raining hours ago -- I think it was around 8:00 or shortly thereafter. It's 1:10 now. I most certainly would not put my monster antenna back up with these strong winds that are out there now. So those of you north of me have strong winds coming if they're not already there. Good news is that they should be pretty much back to just normal-type gusty winds by this evening.


I definitely done good when I chose to take my antenna down. The bad news is that since I'm OTA only, I missed all that good storm coverage on the TV.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I assume you're getting ch 7.1 OTA?
> 
> 
> Here in Bridgewater the winds are REALLY picking up. It stopped raining hours ago -- I think it was around 8:00 or shortly thereafter. It's 1:10 now. I most certainly would not put my monster antenna back up with these strong winds that are out there now. So those of you north of me have strong winds coming if they're not already there. Good news is that they should be pretty much back to just normal-type gusty winds by this evening.
> 
> 
> I definitely done good when I chose to take my antenna down. The bad news is that since I'm OTA only, I missed all that good storm coverage on the TV.



Yes I am. My signal is degraded to 92% with all this high wind


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20877243
> 
> 
> Yes I am. My signal is degraded to 92% with all this high wind



Thanks much. I hope to record @ 1:35 AM 'tonight' and it's good to know that 7.1 is still on the air. I'll put my mast up soon but not gonna top it off with the RS Model VU-190 XR monster until these winds calm down -- if they ever do today/tonight.


Of course, there's always the chance that these high winds could cause ABC problems later today even if I do get myself operational at some point today.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20877145
> 
> 
> I assume you're getting ch 7.1 OTA?
> 
> 
> Here in Bridgewater the winds are REALLY picking up. It stopped raining hours ago -- I think it was around 8:00 or shortly thereafter. It's 1:10 now. I most certainly would not put my monster antenna back up with these strong winds that are out there now. So those of you north of me have strong winds coming if they're not already there. Good news is that they should be pretty much back to just normal-type gusty winds by this evening.
> 
> 
> I definitely done good when I chose to take my antenna down. The bad news is that since I'm OTA only, I missed all that good storm coverage on the TV.



antenna it didnt hold up well, i got a small diy antenna that i stick out my window that gets me all my stations, I don't think I'm going to put up another outdoor antenna anytime soon. I mostly watch dtv anyway.


----------



## LenL

I'm happy to report my 3 antennas held up very well! We did not get the big powerful gusts till after the storm passed and then we must have had some gusts over 50 mph! Lots of limbs down in the area.


Also reception was pretty good during and after the storm. Quite surprised.


Lots of people lost power in my town and surrounding towns but somehow we kept ours.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20879770
> 
> 
> I'm happy to report my 3 antennas held up very well! ....



That's good news. I think I saw one of your antennas that you posted on another site (maybe you don't even have it anymore), but that one looked like it wouldn't catch a lot of wind. Also, _Aero 1_ said his antenna did fine but I don't know what sort he has.


Mine catches waay too much wind to have left it up during the winds we had here. And those winds lasted probably 10 hours or so. They finally began to let up ~ 7:30 PM and by 8:30 or so we were back to just "normal" gusty winds. Not a problem for my antenna, which was back in place by then. My ABC reception was fine for my "recording session" which was from 2 AM to 3 AM (pushed back a half hour due to apparent storm coverage by ABC after the 11:00 news).


One thing I now am sure of as a result of having taken my antenna down is this: When I put it back up, I had to re-mount it on the mast. Thus it's now level on the mast whereas it previously was mounted tipped upward a bit (which wasn't easy to do -- don't ask). Now that it's level and not tipped somewhat upward, my reception of ABC is 88-89% (solid) whereas previously it was 90-92%.


It doesn't seem to matter much for ABC since anything solid 85% or above is just fine, but it does matter a LOT for MY9 recepetion, which is now basically nil. So I need to do something in that regard because there's another MY9 Yankee game tomorrow night.


I also watched quite a bit of ch 13 last night and that reception actually seemed better than before (when the antenna was tipped upward). I'm not sure the percentage is up, but it seemed to be more solid than before. Hardly any glitches.


So I'm thinking I need to work out some kind of crazy way to tip the antenna up just for MY9 reception. How I'm going to do that, I have no clue.


I assume that tipping it upward means it's pointed more toward the top of the ridge that's got me blocked.


My main TV reception, out of Philly, actually seems to be better when the antenna isn't tipped up.


So, once again, it's just that troublesome MY9.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20880973
> 
> 
> Also, _Aero 1_ said his antenna did fine but I don't know what sort he has.



antennas direct DB4 for UHF and CS5 for VHF


----------



## LenL

My antenna's that weathered the storm. The highest up is a CM 4228 and the other 2 are GH6 models.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20880973
> 
> 
> .... I think I saw one of your antennas that you posted on another site (maybe you don't even have it anymore ...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20881759
> 
> 
> My antenna's that weathered the storm. The highest up is a CM 4228 and the other 2 are GH6 models.



None of those look like the one I saw, which was a home-made job. Maybe it wasn't yours but I thought it was.


My MY9 reception since my last post has improved to an almost solid 85% and an apparently quite solid 84% without my doing anything. I had ch 9 on for quite a while (watching _Doug_) and there were no glitches.


So either it's a weather / atmospheric thing, or perhaps MY9 had a bit of a problem earlier. I'll leave things the way they are for now and check it out tomorrow. Maybe I won't need to tilt the antenna.


I should go check out that RS preamp thing as well. That could be a simple fix.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20882423
> 
> 
> 
> My MY9 reception since my last post has improved to an almost solid 85% and an apparently quite solid 84% without my doing anything. I had ch 9 on for quite a while (watching _Doug_) and there were no glitches.
> 
> 
> So either it's a weather / atmospheric thing, or perhaps MY9 had a bit of a problem earlier. I'll leave things the way they are for now and check it out tomorrow. Maybe I won't need to tilt the antenna.



imo wor9 raises the power for yankees games just like nbc, cbs does when they show a game, is their bread and butter.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20881759
> 
> 
> My antenna's that weathered the storm. The highest up is a CM 4228 and the other 2 are GH6 models.



nice antennas. Len you must using a/b switch between your antennas?







btw are you grounding your antennas don't see a ground wire in the pic


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20882423
> 
> 
> None of those look like the one I saw, which was a home-made job. Maybe it wasn't yours but I thought it was.
> 
> 
> My MY9 reception since my last post has improved to an almost solid 85% and an apparently quite solid 84% without my doing anything. I had ch 9 on for quite a while (watching _Doug_) and there were no glitches.
> 
> 
> So either it's a weather / atmospheric thing, or perhaps MY9 had a bit of a problem earlier. I'll leave things the way they are for now and check it out tomorrow. Maybe I won't need to tilt the antenna.
> 
> 
> I should go check out that RS preamp thing as well. That could be a simple fix.



The 2 GH6 antennas are home made. I should know as I made them. I would have put them up higher but I have a thing about heights! The CM4228 was put up by a professional installer.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20883519
> 
> 
> nice antennas. Len you must using a/b switch between your antennas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> btw are you grounding your antennas don't see a ground wire in the pic



No A/B switch. The 2 GH6 antennas feed 2 PALDVRs on the first floor. The CM4228 is feeding a TV on the second floor.


While you could not see them in the picture the masts are grounded and the coax is grounded just before it enters the house.


----------



## channelhunter

Hello all,


Can someone recommend an OTA Antenna re-installer in Queens, New York or nearby location? Hurricane Irene rotated my OTA Antenna a bit so the signal is weak on most channels. Don't get me wrong, I am very grateful this is the only thing the hurricane impacted by me, but I miss my OTA TV!


As far as doing it myself, well, the antenna is attached to a 6 foot mast which is mounted to the chimney and I'm not a big fan of heights (OK, I'm afraid of heights). Even if I made it to the roof, which is unlikely, I would probably need a ladder to reach the antenna in order to rotate it and subsequently tighten its connection to the mast (it seems that it is now quite loose as even a light breeze now seems to move it).


Thanks for your recommendations.


Rich


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *channelhunter* 
Hello all, Can someone recommend an OTA Antenna re-installer in Queens, New York or nearby location?... Rich
You might try calling a home handyman type person for this job. Sounds like some tightening is needed and as long as you can tell him which way to point the thing, it's a simple fix that any handyman type guy could do. I dunno about Queens but here in central Jersey that home handyman business is quite popular and prevalent. Check online, newspapers, etc. to find one locally.


Just make sure he has appropriate insurance and isn't fly-by-night (in case he falls off your roof and decides to sue you).


----------



## T-Max

My reception during the Yankee game last night was excellent. I noted that shortly before game time that the signal was a bit iffy, so I did tip my antenna up a bit (not very much, but upward maybe a foot to 2 feet). That did improve my reception just that little extra bit and reception from the start of the broadcast to the end of the game was excellent (virtually no glitches at all). So that was from 7:00 to 11:13 PM.


BUT


Literally 30 seconds to a minute after the game ended, I had bad glitches for a minute or two, then completely lost reception, then it came back but with glitches, then lost it again, ........


Long story short, by 10 - 15 minutes after the game ended, I had completely lost signal and it appeared that it was not going to come back.


Now, when that happened I decided to check signal strength on other channels. Channels 7, 11 and 13 appeared to be essentially unaffected. Channel 4 appeared to be about the same as MY9, which was largely zero signal with occasional bumps up to 81%, then back to zero, then up to 81 or maybe 83 (I need at least 84 to get reception), back to zero, and so on.


So it appears that maybe there is some sort of interference with UHF but not VHF. As I've noted before, it appears to be quite sporadic. I see no pattern, timewise, and it definitely happened last night literally at 11:13 or 11:14 PM. I'm guessing that it continued for probably a half hour to an hour or hours. I didn't monitor it last night but that's what I've seen before.


I did continue to watch ch 13 for at least a half hour (Charlie Rose) and reception of that was just fine.


So possibly it is some sort of interference (or other factor) that affects only UHF, ch 4 being at RF 28 and MY9 being at RF 38.


Could it possibly be a ham radio operator nearby?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey channelhunter,


Welcome to AVS Forum! I really like your username








Quote:

Originally Posted by *channelhunter* 
Hello all,


Can someone recommend an OTA Antenna re-installer in Queens, New York or nearby location? Hurricane Irene rotated my OTA Antenna a bit so the signal is weak on most channels. Don't get me wrong, I am very grateful this is the only thing the hurricane impacted by me, but I miss my OTA TV!


As far as doing it myself, well, the antenna is attached to a 6 foot mast which is mounted to the chimney and I'm not a big fan of heights (OK, I'm afraid of heights). Even if I made it to the roof, which is unlikely, I would probably need a ladder to reach the antenna in order to rotate it and subsequently tighten its connection to the mast (it seems that it is now quite loose as even a light breeze now seems to move it).


Thanks for your recommendations.


Rich
Rich, you may want to contact a local company which cleans gutters, or a painter or roofer. All of these companies would require someone to go up on the roof. You may have to lend them some tools to use while they are up there, and you will have to supply any connectors, splitters, etc. needed.


A local guy will probably be glad to make a few extra bucks and your reception will be improved.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20889044
> 
> 
> My reception during the Yankee game last night was e Channel 4 appeared to be about the same as MY9, which was largely zero signal with occasional bumps up to 81%, then back to zero, then up to 81 or maybe 83 (I need at least 84 to get reception), back to zero, and so on.



It sounds to me what you describe that your signal goes wildly from 83 to zero, that you got severe multipath, the only way that you can try to get rid off the multipath is by moving your antenna a few feet over or mounted higher. let me ask you did you get my9 with lots of trailing ghost (another image next to the first image) when my9 was analog?

I bet you did, to make story short I finally got rid of multipath I moved my antenna another 5 feet higher and got a 91xg which has much higher gain than my previous antenna. I doubt a preamp will do anything for you, uhf is much more prone to pixalate from any obstruction. vhf signal can travel around trees or buildings better than uhf can.


----------



## Digital Rules




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20889044
> 
> 
> So possibly it is some sort of interference (or other factor) that affects only UHF, ch 4 being at RF 28 and MY9 being at RF 38.



Could be tropo interference from RF38 in Baltimore. I lose a normally good RF26 due to a station about 100 miles away quite often at night when tropo conditions are favorable. Lot's of activity in the northeast here lately.


----------



## NervousCat

I came across an interesting rant on HDTVExpert.com:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=1357


----------



## channelhunter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20888987
> 
> 
> You might try calling a home handyman type person for this job. Sounds like some tightening is needed and as long as you can tell him which way to point the thing, it's a simple fix that any handyman type guy could do. I dunno about Queens but here in central Jersey that home handyman business is quite popular and prevalent. Check online, newspapers, etc. to find one locally.
> 
> 
> Just make sure he has appropriate insurance and isn't fly-by-night (in case he falls off your roof and decides to sue you).



Thanks T-Max... that's a good idea.


I'll be sure to make sure he's insured!


Regards,

Rich


----------



## channelhunter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20890041
> 
> 
> Hey channelhunter,
> 
> 
> Welcome to AVS Forum! I really like your username
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rich, you may want to contact a local company which cleans gutters, or a painter or roofer. All of these companies would require someone to go up on the roof. You may have to lend them some tools to use while they are up there, and you will have to supply any connectors, splitters, etc. needed.
> 
> 
> A local guy will probably be glad to make a few extra bucks and your reception will be improved.



Thanks Giacomo! T-Max suggested something similar. Will look some up.


Thanks again for your reply.


Regards,

Rcih


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/20892295
> 
> 
> Could be tropo interference from RF38 in Baltimore. I lose a normally good RF26 due to a station about 100 miles away quite often at night when tropo conditions are favorable. Lot's of activity in the northeast here lately.



Yea, I'm thinking it's some atmospheric thing myself. Either that or something like a ham radio guy that fires up only every so often -- assuming ham radio could cause what I'm seeing (which I don't know).


I do have maple treetops right in the way and less than 100 ft from the antenna, but that doesn't seem to be the cause here since they are always in the way and I don't always see whatever effect they would have. Like I said, I had solid reception for over 4 hrs, then virtually no reception at all. And there was no wind, so those leaves weren't moving. Or if they were moving (from a breeze), they weren't moving any more after the 4 hours than they were during the 4 hours.


So it's gotta be either atmospheric or some kind of irregular interference from some sort of local transmitter like a ham radio guy.


That's what I'm thinking. Thanks for the input on your experience. Kinda confirms my thinking.


----------



## mikepier

After having no power for 5 days ( since Sunday morning 1:00AM) the power came back on tonight around 9:30. So I have not been doing much on the internet or watching TV, but the Radio Shack VU-75 held up good.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/20895899
> 
> 
> After having no power for 5 days ( since Sunday morning 1:00AM) the power came back on tonight around 9:30. So I have not been doing much on the internet or watching TV, but the Radio Shack VU-75 held up good.



mike consider your lucky lots of people couldn't stay at their homes and went packin to the shelters. good to see your back. I lost my 91xg and can't find receipt to get a replacement. I doubt I put another one up. with another tropical storm on its way .


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20895927
> 
> 
> mike consider your lucky lots of people couldn't stay at their homes and went packin to the shelters. good to see your back. I lost my 91xg and can't find receipt to get a replacement. I doubt I put another one up. with another tropical storm on its way .



Yes, I feel sorry for people in Jersey. Also in upstate NY, particularly Middleburgh, where the town was flooded out, and many roads washed away. I have a summer home up there, fortunately high up on the mountain. Did not get flooded, but no power for 5 days also. My Radio Shack VU-190XR held up good also. In fact, my mom was still able to watch TV up there. She had a small generator to power a 32" LCD TV.


----------



## AloEuro

Looking back, the 5.8 earthquake on 23Aug at 1,53 or 54 pm, on 5th floor of 6story bldg in Brooklyn was something to remember, the bldg actually swayed 2-3degrees 3-4 times from side to side like tree in wind back and forth, then shaking about 10 seconds, then second time again the same swaying from side to side, really scary.

Hey -Trip in Va- I hope you and your family, God willing are allright, how near is your mom house to epicenter? you seem to be close


----------



## Trip in VA

Yep, all is well here. I'm 70 or so miles from the epicenter. There were a couple of jolts then some rumbling. Some things fell, but no damage.


- Trip


----------



## fredd

Since about 11:15PM tonight almost all theNYC stations are not being received here in central NJ. Anyone else having problems?


WCBS2.1, WNBC4.1,2,3, WABC7.1,2,3, WPIX11.1,2,3, WNET13.1,2,3 are all off.


WWOR9.1,2, WNYE25.1,2, and WNYW5.2 are still ok.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fredd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since about 11:15PM tonight almost all theNYC stations are not being received here in central NJ. Anyone else having problems?
> 
> 
> WCBS2.1, WNBC4.1,2,3, WABC7.1,2,3, WPIX11.1,2,3, WNET13.1,2,3 are all off.
> 
> 
> WWOR9.1,2, WNYE25.1,2, and WNYW5.2 are still ok.



Nope, it's you.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20897237
> 
> 
> Yep, all is well here. I'm 70 or so miles from the epicenter. There were a couple of jolts then some rumbling. Some things fell, but no damage.
> 
> 
> - Trip



But as long as the MASTER STATION ANTENNA is still up lol


----------



## nycdigital09

Trip. rabbitears.info is great site, just thinking of making it better experience for everyone that visits.

I have suggestion or a request, maybe there is a way you can a design a database that displays a given frequency, their location and info. lets say I want to look up channel 12 it will display all the channel 12 that are in easter region, or near my dma. this would be tremendous asset where there are other stations in that frequency. It can be useful for someone who wants to minimize co-channel or adjacent channel interference. I know the old fcc site would let you do this. ps. I know this would be asking alot. I bring this up mostly because there is a good chance that some of us ota viewers are experiencing somewhat co-channel or adjacent channel interference, being that spectrum is so congested. trip enjoy your holiday


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20906296
> 
> 
> Trip. rabbitears.info is great site, just thinking of making it better experience for everyone that visits.
> 
> I have suggestion or request, maybe there is a way you can a design a database that displays a given station, their location and info. lets say I want to look up channel 12 it will display all the channel 12 that are in easter region, or near my dma. this would be useful where there are other channels in that frequency. this would be real useful for someone who wants to minimize cochannel or adjacent channel interference. I know the old fcc site would let you do a search for a channel# it would show all given channel#, their location and info. cheers mate.



There's actually code that does this already in existence on RabbitEars. It's currently only available to administrators (me, mainly) because it doesn't really work quite right and I eventually got to an impasse where I couldn't make it any better but I decided it also wasn't really of release quality. (This is the part of the conversation where you can point out all the bugs in the TV Query, among other places.)


At some point I'll probably try to clean it up and make it at least presentable.


- Trip


----------



## nycdigital09

trip what program do use for coding ? visual basic


----------



## Trip in VA

All my coding is in PHP, using one of many Linux equivalents to Notepad (I use kwrite).


- Trip


----------



## rothe

NJTV appears to be down. Anyone else having *new* problems with it?


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20910359
> 
> 
> All my coding is in PHP, using one of many Linux equivalents to Notepad (I use kwrite).
> 
> 
> - Trip



cool, btw i did see the database that shows you all the channels by region. txs


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NJTV appears to be down. Anyone else having *new* problems with it?



Likely weather related


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/20915643
> 
> 
> NJTV appears to be down. Anyone else having *new* problems with it?



i read your attachment about your problem with wnet 13, did you get this station when it was analog station? I ask this because if you did receive 13, then it is very likely multipath is playing havoc. from what i read most combo antennas are weak on ch13. raising your antenna another 5 feet could certainly help. I did for me. with njn. have you tried another tuner like the zenith dtt900, thats what i use, is one the most sensitive and very good at handling multipath.


----------



## DTVintermods

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* 
i read your attachment about your problem with wnet 13, did you get this station when it was analog station? I ask this because if you did receive 13, then it is very likely multipath is playing havoc. from what i read most combo antennas are weak on ch13. raising your antenna another 5 feet could certainly help. I did for me. with njn. have you tried another tuner like the zenith dtt900, thats what i use, is one the most sensitive and very good at handling multipath.
Yes, multipath is a killer for ATSC but it helps if you know how to position your antenna in order to reduce the echo's destructive effect. Here's a suggestion:

To my knowledge, the adaptive equalizers in consumer-grade tuners start reducing echoes at a delay of one symbol period, around 1 microsecond or 30 meters. There is no echo elimination for shorter delays. So look at an imaginary sphere, app 30m in radius, around your antenna for an object that might be the echo reflector and then move your ch 13 antenna in 15" (shorter for UHF) increments in some directions relative to suspected echo generator. Hopefully you'll find a sweet spot.


----------



## zoetmb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NervousCat* /forum/post/20892543
> 
> 
> I came across an interesting rant on HDTVExpert.com:
> 
> http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=1357



I agree that the FCC has become a joke, but that's really not the FCC's fault - - it's Congress' fault.


As for the spectrum fight over the frequencies used for wireless microphones, while I agree with the audio industry, I go to plenty of concerts and performances and I haven't heard any interference yet caused by the new devices. So the fears may have been overblown. (Or maybe there just aren't that many interfering devices as yet.)


As for taking away over the air frequencies and making some TV stations relocate so that they auction off the frequencies for other uses, so what? A very small percentage of Americans get their signal over the air. And even if they do, they'll still get it, but their stations might show up on a different channel.


People are spending more and more time on digital devices and if that's where the spectrum is needed, then why shouldn't it be allocated there? And Uncle Sam makes some nice money on the deal, which we desperately need.


The only caveat is that since the OTA stations just went through the conversion to digital, they should get a 100% tax break for any costs relating to moving their signals again.


----------



## replayrob

Quote:

Originally Posted by *zoetmb* 
As for taking away over the air frequencies and making some TV stations relocate so that they auction off the frequencies for other uses, so what? A very small percentage of Americans get their signal over the air. And even if they do, they'll still get it, but their stations might show up on a different channel.
Maybe it would be helpful to prospective OTA users if they rationalized the VHF band completely and had all TV broadcasts on the UHF band. My UHF only roof antenna is very unobtrusive compared to a combo VHF/UHF antenna. Only problem is I can't pull in the few NY area hi-VHF channels (ABC, WPIX, PBS-13) with a UHF only antenna from 49 air miles east of the ESB.


If I could pull in all the major NY area stations with one single UHF antenna- OTA would be a big hit in my house. But a ugly VHF/UHF combo antenna just won't cut it with the boss.... so I'm UHF only


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20921800
> 
> 
> Maybe it would be helpful to prospective OTA users if they rationalized the VHF band completely and had all TV broadcasts on the UHF band. My UHF only roof antenna is very unobtrusive compared to a combo VHF/UHF antenna. Only problem is I can't pull in the few NY area hi-VHF channels (ABC, WPIX, PBS-13) with a UHF only antenna from 49 air miles east of the ESB.
> 
> 
> If I could pull in all the major NY area stations with one single UHF antenna- OTA would be a big hit in my house. But a ugly VHF/UHF combo antenna just won't cut it with the boss.... so I'm UHF only



how about the letting the boss know vhf channels exist and grabbing a high vhf antenna like antennacraft y5-7-13 http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=716079000987


----------



## AloEuro

It was inevitable that CBS 2-1 some already CBS 2-2 would go for sub, NBC espeiacially on Sunday morning when people still go to church, beach or picnic with less wievers morning than evening, advertisers can argue to pay less $ to CBS-1 than to NBC-1 whose shows are shown on 4-2 PrimeTime suplement to ad revenues of morning shows.


Now with sub on CBS 2-1 is more competitive with others if they show rerun of morning shows on sub Primetime, adding to it specials like 60min.etc


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20922078
> 
> 
> how about the letting the boss know vhf channels exist and grabbing a high vhf antenna like antennacraft y5-7-13 http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=716079000987



She watches cable and Dishnet/youtube feeds mostly on a 26" set in the bedroom- unfortunately she's not concerned with the difference between Cablevision's sub-par bitstarved/compressed HD feed and the much better feed I get on my 47" LED TV via OTA on the UHF (CBS, NBC, FOX, My9, etc) channels.


I'd love to add a hi-VHF antenna to my current Antennas Direct 91XG- but the VHF antennas are just an eyesore that will cause grief with the boss and the neighbors alike.


You should have seen the rubberneckers on my street driving by when I was erecting my roof antenna... I thought I was going to cause a car accident. One car actually slowed down to watch long enough that I heard someone in the car say "is that an antenna?" like it was something illegal







.

Meanwhile when our cable went out for a day and a half from hurricane Irene last week... we still had TV.


If they only went to all UHF... one small antenna would do it all!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20922520
> 
> 
> She watches cable and Dishnet/youtube feeds mostly on a 26" set in the bedroom- unfortunately she's not concerned with the difference between Cablevision's sub-par bitstarved/compressed HD feed and the much better feed I get on my 47" LED TV via OTA on the UHF (CBS, NBC, FOX, My9, etc) channels.
> 
> 
> I'd love to add a hi-VHF antenna to my current Antennas Direct 91XG- but the VHF antennas are just an eyesore that will cause grief with the boss and the neighbors alike.
> 
> 
> You should have seen the rubberneckers on my street driving by when I was erecting my roof antenna... I thought I was going to cause a car accident. One car actually slowed down to watch long enough that I heard someone in the car say "is that an antenna"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Meanwhile when our cable went out for a day and a half from hurricane Irene last week... I still had TV.
> 
> 
> If they only went to all UHF... one antenna would do it all!



the 91xg has descent vfh reception i can get wtnh ch8 from new haven ct most of the time, is 65 miles from me. i get all vhf out nyc with it. but I'm only 6 miles from esb, what suprise is that 91xg can pick up low vhf, I get wkob retrotv with it. I also have winegard ya 1713 that never had put up on roof. don't take this the wrong way but you got lots snobbish folks where you live


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20922617
> 
> 
> the 91xg has descent vfh reception i can get wtnh ch8 from new haven ct most of the time, is 65 miles from me. i get all vhf out nyc with it. but I'm only 6 miles from esb,



No doubt the 91XG can pull in hi-VHF, but according to RabbitEars.info the NYC Hi-VHF stations push out a pitiful 7.5-26.9Kw ERP _before the combiner_ so pretty much cut those figures in half for real worl ERP after the combiner so you're left with maybe 4-12Kw ERP for those Hi-VHF stations. That's pretty hard to pull in from 49 air miles away with a "UHF" antenna.


Compare those paltry figures to the major network UHF stations transmitting from ESB at 220-426Kw before the combiner or FOX blasting out at 990Kw from it's own antenna (no combiner)











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20922617
> 
> 
> don't take this the wrong way but you got lots snobbish folks where you live



Yeah, I agree... but that's what happens when you pay $9k property taxes for a 1/5 acre property.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20922520
> 
> 
> She watches cable and Dishnet/youtube feeds mostly on a 26" set in the bedroom- unfortunately she's not concerned with the difference between Cablevision's sub-par bitstarved/compressed HD feed and the much better feed I get on my 47" LED TV via OTA on the UHF (CBS, NBC, FOX, My9, etc) channels.
> 
> 
> I'd love to add a hi-VHF antenna to my current Antennas Direct 91XG- but the VHF antennas are just an eyesore that will cause grief with the boss and the neighbors alike.
> 
> 
> You should have seen the rubberneckers on my street driving by when I was erecting my roof antenna... I thought I was going to cause a car accident. One car actually slowed down to watch long enough that I heard someone in the car say "is that an antenna?" like it was something illegal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Meanwhile when our cable went out for a day and a half from hurricane Irene last week... we still had TV.
> 
> 
> If they only went to all UHF... one small antenna would do it all!



my uhf/vhf combo is pretty compact, probably just a tad bigger than those ugly looking Directv oval dishes with 6 LNB's attached to it. and it stands vertically, not horizontally. its mostly hidden by the chimney depending where you are standing.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20922806
> 
> 
> my uhf/vhf combo is pretty compact, probably just a tad bigger than those ugly looking Directv oval dishes with 6 LNB's attached to it. and it stands vertically, not horizontally. its mostly hidden by the chimney depending where you are standing.



aero, i have no doubt you can probably get more stations that you're gettng now, if you got a tv rotor for your rig, you live in area with 200" agl which aids in tv reception.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20921800
> 
> 
> Maybe it would be helpful to prospective OTA users if they rationalized the VHF band completely and had all TV broadcasts on the UHF band. My UHF only roof antenna is very unobtrusive compared to a combo VHF/UHF antenna. Only problem is I can't pull in the few NY area hi-VHF channels (ABC, WPIX, PBS-13) with a UHF only antenna from 49 air miles east of the ESB.
> 
> 
> If I could pull in all the major NY area stations with one single UHF antenna- OTA would be a big hit in my house. But a ugly VHF/UHF combo antenna just won't cut it with the boss.... so I'm UHF only



It would have been so much better for all of us if they made OTA 100% UHF! It was the keep it simple stupid principle that was forgotten by the pencil pushers in Washington! Just think how much nicer it would be if we only needed UHF antennas. Let give away the VHF band and move everything to UHF NOW!


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20924992
> 
> 
> aero, i have no doubt you can probably get more stations that you're gettng now, if you got a tv rotor for your rig, you live in area with 200" agl which aids in tv reception.



you're probably right, but that wouldnt work with the TV workflow in my house. I have 3 tivos that wouldn't make a rotor useful. not counting that it can interfere with recordings, also the whole guided setup and picking the right zip code for the new channels would be a big mess.


besides, the other station that i could pick up (conn and Philly) are identical the NY nationals. i dont care about their local stuff.


----------



## keyboard21

Still No news on CBS sub-station. Anyone find this strange? We are now in 3rd quarter. Station was supposed to be in 3rd quarter


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still No news on CBS sub-station. Anyone find this strange? We are now in 4th quarter. Station was supposed to be in 3rd quarter



4th quarter of the year starts october 1


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20925656
> 
> 
> It would have been so much better for all of us if they made OTA 100% UHF! It was the keep it simple stupid principle that was forgotten by the pencil pushers in Washington! Just think how much nicer it would be if we only needed UHF antennas. Let give away the VHF band and move everything to UHF NOW!



I would agree for the most part, but vhf is much more easier to receive it travels further vhf also can go thru walls or obstruction while uhf does not.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20925693
> 
> 
> you're probably right, but that wouldnt work with the TV workflow in my house. I have 3 tivos that wouldn't make a rotor useful. not counting that it can interfere with recordings, also the whole guided setup and picking the right zip code for the new channels would be a big mess.
> 
> 
> besides, the other station that i could pick up (conn and Philly) are identical the NY nationals. i dont care about their local stuff.



yeah, your probably right. you would only gain, a couple of more pbs channels


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree for the most part, but vhf is much more easier to receive it travels further vhf also can go thru walls or obstruction while uhf does not.
> 
> 
> yeah, your probably right. you would only gain, a couple of more pbs channels



VHF travels farther but UHF penetrates walls which is why cell phone companies want more UHF bandwith


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20928064
> 
> 
> VHF travels farther but UHF penetrates walls which is why cell phone companies want more UHF bandwith



Not exactly.


UHF *TV* signals tend to penetrate walls better because those stations often have up to a million watts of power pushing the signals. Most VHF TV stations are in the 10-30 kW category with only a relative handful over 100 kW. If the signals were of comparable power, the VHF signal would be superior for building penetration.


Wireless companies want the UHF band because they can still use relatively compact antennas within the portable device.


Free-space path loss is lesser at VHF frequencies than at UHF, that's one of the advantages VHF stations were thought to have going into the transition. VHF also diffracts more easily into mountainous terrain and is less affected by trees and foliage. Of course, we've all discovered the downsides of VHF in the last two years....


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20927876
> 
> 
> 4th quarter of the year starts october 1



yep = real close










The point you choose to ignore is no more info from CBS


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> yep = real close
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point you choose to ignore is no more info from CBS



im not ignoring it, im just not obsessed over it


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/20928165
> 
> 
> Not exactly.
> 
> 
> UHF *TV* signals tend to penetrate walls better because those stations often have up to a million watts of power pushing the signals. Most VHF TV stations are in the 10-30 kW category with only a relative handful over 100 kW. If the signals were of comparable power, the VHF signal would be superior for building penetration.
> 
> 
> Wireless companies want the UHF band because they can still use relatively compact antennas within the portable device.
> 
> 
> Free-space path loss is lesser at VHF frequencies than at UHF, that's one of the advantages VHF stations were thought to have going into the transition. VHF also diffracts more easily into mountainous terrain and is less affected by trees and foliage. Of course, we've all discovered the downsides of VHF in the last two years....



My point is why do we need both? We should have gone with one or the other and since there is not much room on VHF for all the UHF stations it makes sense to move the few VHF stations to UHF and free up VHF for other use. My experience 30 miles out and in the hills is that I get UHF far better than VHF. 11.1 and 13.1 are problems. 8.1 and 7.1 are OK. I get 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 9.1, 31.1, 41.1, 47.1, 50.1, 63.1 just great.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20930085
> 
> 
> My point is why do we need both? We should have gone with one or the other and since there is not much room on VHF for all the UHF stations it makes sense to move the few VHF stations to UHF and free up VHF for other use. My experience 30 miles out and in the hills is that I get UHF far better than VHF. 11.1 and 13.1 are problems. 8.1 and 7.1 are OK. I get 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 9.1, 31.1, 41.1, 47.1, 50.1, 63.1 just great.



Len I agree i wish all the stations would be on uhf, fcc screwed up by selling off the upper uhf band. should off sold vhf instead. why vhf is troublesome for most of us, if the vhf spectrum was alotted more power like 1000 kw like analog, this would be a moot point.


----------



## LenL

Anyone else besides me see it disappear all weekend? I still got 50.1 but none of my antennas could receive 58.1 (8.1). I did not check today yet.


----------



## tbal2000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20937873
> 
> 
> Anyone else besides me see it disappear all weekend? I still got 50.1 but none of my antennas could receive 58.1 (8.1). I did not check today yet.




I have Sat afternoon/evening recordings of 58.1 on my DVR, but early Sun (2am) and Sun afternoon recordings are blanks. Nothing when I tuned the tv to 58.1 as well. Who knows? Quite a while for a channel to putting out dead air.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20937873
> 
> 
> Anyone else besides me see it disappear all weekend? I still got 50.1 but none of my antennas could receive 58.1 (8.1). I did not check today yet.



I don't know about anytime other than right now, but it's fine at the moment (11:04 AM) and at it's usual strength for me (98%).


----------



## T-Max

My DVR recording this morning on Ch 7.1 from 1:54 AM to 2:06 AM came up with the dreaded 'no signal' message along with the frozen last image from Grey's Anatomy at the time the signal was lost. Given that image, I could pretty much peg the exact moment I lost signal if I were to watch that episode online if it's available.


I had very good reception (91-92%) from 11:40 PM to the last time I checked at approximately 12:15 AM. And this morning's reception was fine @ a solid 88-89%.


Last night's schedule was pushed back a half hour due to a 9/11 special after the 11:00 news. So Grey's Anatomy started at midnight instead of 11:35 PM as per normal. Which meant that Da Vinci's Inquest would be starting at 2:00 AM (after the 2nd episode of Grey's Anatomy). So I set my recorder to start at I:54 AM.


It's clear from the frozen image that once I lost reception at that point, I never got it back during the entire recording time. So I'm assuming that either ABC was off the air all that time or whatever condition caused me to lose reception continued to completely shut me out for that entire time.


This is not a 'glitch' situation.


Anybody else see this or know anything?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbal2000* /forum/post/20938221
> 
> 
> I have Sat afternoon/evening recordings of 58.1 on my DVR, but early Sun (2am) and Sun afternoon recordings are blanks. Nothing when I tuned the tv to 58.1 as well. Who knows? Quite a while for a channel to putting out dead air.



The exact same thing happened to my recordings! I am also only seeing about 12 hours of program scheduling for 58.1.


----------



## jam-h

OK if you're reading this subforum, you know that new NYC channels and subchannels show quite a bit of retro TV.


While flipping around, caught the end of a Three Stooges where the boys were setting up a new TV, and assembling and installing a rooftop antenna.


Later found it was The Three Stooges "Goof on the Roof" (1953). It was appropriately broadcast on Antenna TV.


If some feel the need to commiserate, it can be seen at

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy2...oof_shortfilms 


The TV/antenna stuff starts about ~6:36 on.


----------



## johngloid

Hi there -- I live in Brooklyn and just went OTA. No more cable! It's exciting but I have an issue getting FOX in HD.


My setup might be a little odd. I'm using my old Time Warner coax line input to my HDTV's Cable input.


I did an automatic channel sweep a couple of times, but it just can't pick up FOX in HD. SD is no issue. It picks up all the standard HD/SD stations like ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, NY1, etc and then some...YES, SNY, TBS and more.


I'm thinking of picking up a Digital Antenna, but just wanted to come here and ask if this issue might be resolved without one first.


Thanks!


----------



## R.F. Burns

"*AloEuro

Senior Member



Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 272 It was inevitable that CBS 2-1 some already CBS 2-2 would go for sub, NBC espeiacially on Sunday morning when people still go to church, beach or picnic with less wievers morning than evening, advertisers can argue to pay less $ to CBS-1 than to NBC-1 whose shows are shown on 4-2 PrimeTime suplement to ad revenues of morning shows.


Now with sub on CBS 2-1 is more competitive with others if they show rerun of morning shows on sub Primetime, adding to it specials like 60min.etc "*








No disrespect intended but...huh?


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johngloid* /forum/post/20948636
> 
> 
> Hi there -- I live in Brooklyn and just went OTA. No more cable! It's exciting but I have an issue getting FOX in HD.
> 
> 
> My setup might be a little odd. I'm using my old Time Warner coax line input to my HDTV's Cable input.
> 
> 
> I did an automatic channel sweep a couple of times, but it just can't pick up FOX in HD. SD is no issue. It picks up all the standard HD/SD stations like ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, NY1, etc and then some...YES, SNY, TBS and more.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of picking up a Digital Antenna, but just wanted to come here and ask if this issue might be resolved without one first.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



If you're picking up Yes, SNY TBS & "More" (thank you Kai Winding), your still getting cable service. Those stations do not broadcast over the air.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johngloid* /forum/post/20948636
> 
> 
> Hi there -- I live in Brooklyn and just went OTA. No more cable! It's exciting but I have an issue getting FOX in HD.
> 
> 
> My setup might be a little odd. I'm using my old Time Warner coax line input to my HDTV's Cable input.
> 
> 
> I did an automatic channel sweep a couple of times, but it just can't pick up FOX in HD. SD is no issue. It picks up all the standard HD/SD stations like ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, NY1, etc and then some...YES, SNY, TBS and more.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of picking up a Digital Antenna, but just wanted to come here and ask if this issue might be resolved without one first.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



You'll need to post in the Time-Warner thread, as you're receiving ClearQAM cable signals and not over the air signals.


- Trip


----------



## jchtrout1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Does anyone know if this translator CH. 22 WCBS 2-1 ever was turned on ?

According to several databases, it has, but I cant see it on my analyzer at all. I think it was supposed to be located on Channel 21 WLIW's tower and I can get WLIW very good.

I lost WCBS channel 2 from NY after the switch because of co channel from WFSB in Hartford and was hoping that this would resolve my problem.

Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20925693
> 
> 
> you're probably right, but that wouldnt work with the TV workflow in my house. I have 3 tivos that wouldn't make a rotor useful. not counting that it can interfere with recordings, also the whole guided setup and picking the right zip code for the new channels would be a big mess.
> 
> 
> besides, the other station that i could pick up (conn and Philly) are identical the NY nationals. i dont care about their local stuff.



you be picking up wliw ch21 which has 2 other subs world and create that you don't get with 13 or njtv. you said you use 3 tivos, what on earth is so great about ota tv, that you use 3 tivos to record. maybe is me but, I find ota channels pretty boring if pbs is not showing nature or nova shows.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> you be picking up wliw ch21 which has 2 other subs world and create that you don't get with 13 or njtv. you said you use 3 tivos, what on earth is so great about ota tv, that you use 3 tivos to record. maybe is me but, I find ota channels pretty boring if pbs is not showing nature or nova shows.



I have 3 tivos because I had them before I went OTA only a year ago. I've had these for 3+ years when I had fios. I've been using TiVo since 2002, from directiv, cable vision to fios. My wife has been using them as long as me before we moved in together years ago. They were all paid for with lifetime and paid themselves over and over when I paid for tv service because I didn't have to pay the ridiculous set top box fee.


Tivos simply just work. Back in the day of cable CO's dvr simply sucked. Missed recordings, dumb recordings and you still can't transfer recordings to a pc for editing and archiving. Also, TiVo has been doing internet recording management, multiple room viewing and pc video transfers and streaming for years, something unheard of just a few years ago. Don't forget Netflix and other services that an OTA only house uses.


It is just you, my wife and I watch lots of comedies, she watches soaps, I like to watch news and sports. With a new baby, and the fact that we never watched anything live anyway, 3 tivos are great. Replay that touchdown pass, pause live tv to go to the bathroom or Pause something downstairs and resume it in the bedroom, you can't beat that workflow.


I'm actually going to sell one of my older TiVo hds and recoup exactly my original cost from 4 years ago and buy a new TiVo premiere to take advantage of the new premiere to premiere features.


Did I really have to explain a dvr to you?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/20929196
> 
> 
> im not ignoring it, im just not obsessed over it



Nothing wrong with obsession. It gave us the automobile, planes, miracle drugs, and many other things.


----------



## Carl_Elvis

Hi all, need advice on an indoor antenna, my first attempt at getting OTA signals. My apartment faces South, directly across from the Port Authority on 41st street. I'm 11 floors up.


Thanks for any help!


----------



## AloEuro

Few people have 'wall to wall' HD TV which requires maximum output by the stations in order for you to receive good, solid ,undistorted images of the broadcast on the big screen, however, majority of OTA even paid TV still have boxes in range of 20 to 32 inches and then the subs are welcomed ( my time is up)


----------



## fredd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Carl_Elvis* /forum/post/20956501
> 
> 
> Hi all, need advice on an indoor antenna, my first attempt at getting OTA signals. My apartment faces South, directly across from the Port Authority on 41st street. I'm 11 floors up.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help!



Patience, next year broadcasters will (hopefully) be moving their transmitters south to 1 WTC and all you will need is a simple loop and rabbit ears (which should also work for you even now, being that close to the ESB transmitters). Something as simple as a RCA111 for $10 will probably work, although you may need to move it around a bit to find the "sweet spot" (near a window is probably a good bet).


----------



## SnellKrell

Moving to 1WTC is so highly speculative - not much hope in my opinion.


Although the Durst Organization will now be involved with the leasing of space, and with the company's background in broadcast transmission (4TS), decisions will be made based on stations' finances. With the economy in its current shape, I don't see much of a possibility for the move.


----------



## D. Shadow

although i dont live in the New York/New Jersey area...i would like to add on the fact that some NYC stations do have applications on their FCC database to move back to Lower Manhattan from what im seeing; mainly stations like WCBS, WPIX, WNBC, and WABC (just to name a few)...but i did notice that both WNYW & WWOR are staying on the Empire State Building (i wonder why)


as for the other main stations in the area, unless they are saving up some cash for the move to improve their "footprint" in the NYC Market, dont really see why they should NOT move...


----------



## Trip in VA

Those applications are placeholders to protect their 1WTC coverage areas in case they want to use them in the future. I'm uncertain why Fox chose not to do the same with its stations, but that is the purpose of those applications.


As for why not to move? It's expensive to build and for what might be seen to the networks with their 95% cable/satellite penetration as marginal benefit.


- Trip


----------



## D. Shadow

well i kinda figured building a new master antenna would cost the broadcasters 10's of thousands of dollars (of not more than that), since given the fact that the original master analog and digital antenna in the old WTC north tower was rather costly to construct


----------



## Trip in VA

Tens of millions, I would imagine. Plus the cost of installing new transmitters, STL gear, generators/redundant power, etc.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

The original antenna mast on 1WTC was paid for and owned by the Port Authority. The present antenna mast at 4TS is owned by Durst and aperture is leased. So expect the same IF the stations move to the new 1WTC.

BUT as long as the prospect of channel repacking to 31 or lower is there, you cannot design an optimal, multichannel DTV antenna, on 1WTC.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20921800
> 
> 
> Only problem is I can't pull in the few NY area hi-VHF channels (ABC, WPIX, PBS-13) with a UHF only antenna from 49 air miles east of the ESB.
> 
> 
> If I could pull in all the major NY area stations with one single UHF antenna- OTA would be a big hit in my house. But a ugly VHF/UHF combo antenna just won't cut it with the boss.... so I'm UHF only



A VHF-hi/UHF Combo Antenna is not that much different appearance-wise from a UHF Antenna. Considering the antenna would be situated on a roof, nobody is really going to be staring at it. Unless it would be obstructing some awesome view, there is no reason you cannot erect it. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about the neighbors or some "boss", you're entitled to enjoy whatever you can legally upon your property. And, you are protected under federal law to install a TV antenna that permits you to receive all available TV channels.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/20961076
> 
> 
> A VHF-hi/UHF Combo Antenna is not that much different appearance-wise from a UHF Antenna. Considering the antenna would be situated on a roof, nobody is really going to be staring at it. Unless it would be obstructing some awesome view, there is no reason you cannot erect it. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about the neighbors or some "boss", you're entitled to enjoy whatever you can legally upon your property. And, you are protected under federal law to install a TV antenna that permits you to receive all available TV channels.



gio he is being humorous by saying "boss" he means his significant other.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20962266
> 
> 
> gio he is being humorous by saying "boss" he means his significant other.



Usually translates to "She who shall be obeyed....or else."


----------



## charlie460

Looks like Fox 5 WNYW is putting their giant station logo along with time/temperature over syndicated HD content now.


----------



## SnellKrell

No logo on now!


----------



## SnellKrell

New show on and the logo, time and temperature have appeared.


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/20962266
> 
> 
> gio he is being humorous by saying "boss" he means his significant other.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/20962309
> 
> 
> Usually translates to "She who shall be obeyed....or else."



.... my 'boss' at work has a 250'+ tower on the roof of our building with assorted VHF paging, link and radio broadcasting antennas on it.


The 'boss' at home will have none of that- lucky she gave me a wavier for the 91XG UHF antenna on a 20' mast


----------



## charlie460




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20962929
> 
> 
> New show on and the logo, time and temperature have appeared.




Not a fan










It's huge and obtrusive. Previously, it only appeared on non-HD syndicated content, but, it appears they now have the ability to place it on HD content as well.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/20962309
> 
> 
> Usually translates to "She who shall be obeyed....or else."



Actually, it's "She who must be obeyed"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpole_of_the_Bailey 


aka SWMBO

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/SWMBO 


delivered with the appropriate solemn stare off into the abyss


----------



## Carl_Elvis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fredd* /forum/post/20958419
> 
> 
> Patience, next year broadcasters will (hopefully) be moving their transmitters south to 1 WTC and all you will need is a simple loop and rabbit ears (which should also work for you even now, being that close to the ESB transmitters). Something as simple as a RCA111 for $10 will probably work, although you may need to move it around a bit to find the "sweet spot" (near a window is probably a good bet).



Thanks for the advice fredd! I ended up getting a $40 Terk amplified indoor antenna at B&H, they have 30-day return policy so I figured I had nothing to lose by trying. I was surprised to find I get a great signal on 2, 4, 5, 7 & 11, along with great signals for ion and the two spanish channels. 13 came through a little choppy but I think I can get it perfect-especially since I can see their building from my window, lol. Overall I'm really happy wth it.


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
My DVR recording this morning on Ch 7.1 from 1:54 AM to 2:06 AM came up with the dreaded 'no signal' message .... I had very good reception (91-92%) from 11:40 PM to the last time I checked at approximately 12:15 AM. And this morning's reception was fine @ a solid 88-89%....Anybody else see this or know anything?
I had the same thing happen last night (early this morning). I was watching at the time and ch 7 went out at 12:49 AM. Prior to that I had solid reception at 91-92% for at least the prior 50 minutes. And this morning it's back at a solid 89-90%


This situation continued until at least 2:45 AM when my programmed recording ended.


Because I was awake at the time I lost ch 7 reception, I checked my other channels. I had MY9 and ch 4 (both UHF) and no 7,11,13 (all VHF). Channels 11 and 13 showed up on my meter but were weakened to the point of no actual reception. Channel 7 basically didn't register on my meter.


Although I had both 4 and 9, they were at a somewhat reduced strength. So it does appear that all my NYC stations were affected, with the VHF stations being impacted more than the UHF stations and the low VHF taking more of a hit than the higher VHF.


Can anyone else out there confirm that ch 7 (or 11 & 13) were operating normally from 12:49 AM to 2:45 AM?


Or have anything to add about maybe why I'm seeing this?


Thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

As has been posted, work in being done on the ESB's mast overnight.


This work may continue until the end of the year.


----------



## Aero 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by *T-Max* 
I had the same thing happen last night (early this morning). I was watching at the time and ch 7 went out at 12:49 AM. Prior to that I had solid reception at 91-92% for at least the prior 50 minutes. And this morning it's back at a solid 89-90%


This situation continued until at least 2:45 AM when my programmed recording ended.


Because I was awake at the time I lost ch 7 reception, I checked my other channels. I had MY9 and ch 4 (both UHF) and no 7,11,13 (all VHF). Channels 11 and 13 showed up on my meter but were weakened to the point of no actual reception. Channel 7 basically didn't register on my meter.


Although I had both 4 and 9, they were at a somewhat reduced strength. So it does appear that all my NYC stations were affected, with the VHF stations being impacted more than the UHF stations and the low VHF taking more of a hit than the higher VHF.


Can anyone else out there confirm that ch 7 (or 11 & 13) were operating normally from 12:49 AM to 2:45 AM?


Or have anything to add about maybe why I'm seeing this?


Thanks


7 was fine last night at that time. i was channel surfing and i remember seeing the end of greys anatomy. its just you.


----------



## 2VW

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Aero 1* 
7 was fine last night at that time. i was channel surfing and i remember seeing the end of greys anatomy. its just you.


And anyone else who's reception goes below threshold when Empire changes antennas during overnight construction.


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* 
As has been posted, work in being done on the ESB's mast overnight.


This work may continue until the end of the year.
Quote:

Originally Posted by *Aero 1* 
7 was fine last night at that time. i was channel surfing and i remember seeing the end of greys anatomy. its just you.
So which is it??


Actually, it could be both. It could be that they are working on things and thus have reduced power somewhat. That would affect me but perhaps not folks closer. As I've said many times before, I'm really on the edge of NYC reception and it doesn't take much for me to lose some of it. Plus, I did note last night that all NYC stations (@ ESB) seemed to be somewhat adversely affected, some more than others.


In any event, thanks much for the feedback guys.


Anybody have an email for ch 7 engineering?


----------



## T-Max

Quote:

Originally Posted by *2VW* 
And anyone else who's reception goes below threshold when Empire changes antennas during overnight construction.
Thanks for your feedback (which I missed cuz I was posting my last)


So you're saying that they are definitely changing antennas overnight? That would pretty much explain everything I'm seeing.


Perhaps I need to email the ESB folks about this?


----------



## AloEuro

R.F. - What I meant was that I kind of was giving 'advice' to CBS to use their sub in similar fashion as NBC-1 does with -2 in particular on Sundays, the subs on wpix11 have different status than subs on NBC or ABC


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20969533
> 
> 
> 7 was fine last night at that time. i was channel surfing and i remember seeing the end of greys anatomy. its just you.



Also (I should have noticed before), when you say you saw the end of Grey's, you would have had to been watching either at 12:33 AM or 1:33 AM. ABC runs two episodes of Grey's back-to-back starting at 11:35 PM Sunday night.


My ABC reception during the end of the 1st Grey's episode @ 12:33 AM was fine. And it continued to be fine into the 2nd episode and up to 12:49 AM, when it suddenly dropped out to virtually nil on my signal meter.


So if you weren't surfing at 1:33 AM, your observation isn't relevant to my situation.


If they are indeed switching to a different antenna on the ESB on Sunday nights, then you and I could both be right. You could see no interruption in your reception, and I could totally lose my reception.


So if that's the case, then it's not really "just me."


Then again, it is "just me" if only relative to you and others who are closer and thus continue to get reception despite it being reduced.


As *2VW* astutely observed, it could well be me "And anyone else who's reception goes below threshold when Empire changes antennas during overnight construction."


So, were you surfing at 1:33 AM or 12:33 AM?


----------



## Trip in VA

I can confirm that they are doing tower work late at night that causes a 10-15 second drop when they switch from the main antenna to the backup (whether that is lower on Empire or on 4TS, I don't know). There's a matching drop before 5AM when they switch back from the backup to the main antenna.


- Trip


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/20969996
> 
> 
> I can confirm that they are doing tower work late at night that causes a 10-15 second drop when they switch from the main antenna to the backup (whether that is lower on Empire or on 4TS, I don't know). There's a matching drop before 5AM when they switch back from the backup to the main antenna.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip. I'd say that pretty much settles the question. Assuming that's what I'm seeing, it's been the last 2 weeks that I've seen it. From a quick look @ my records it looks like the prior 4 weeks were fine. Then the 2 weeks prior to those 4 weeks had iffy reception and I got about half or less of my one-hour episode recording.


Last night's episode was the last episode and I won't be needing any further episodes for another 9 weeks or so when I want to record an episode that I previously missed. Hopefully, I'll get that one and the subsequent ones that I also missed for whatever reason.


Are they doing this work every night or just Sunday nights? Just curious.


BTW, my MY9 reception lately has been very good. Indeed, I even had pretty good MY9 reception even after they switched to the other antenna this morning.


So it seems that the work they are doing might be resulting in better MY9 reception for me.


----------



## Trip in VA

I don't know that it's every night but it's not just Sunday nights either.


- Trip


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20970425
> 
> 
> .... So it seems that the work they are doing might be resulting in better MY9 reception for me.



Getting ready to watch the NY Giants on MY9 and my reception is very good at a solid 86-87%. I've not seen that kind of MY9 reception in a long time.


Channels 11 & 13 also seem improved, while ch 7 seems to have dropped off a bit @ 88%. But that could be my antenna position because I believe I need to be just a tad more to the left for optimal ch 7 reception.


Or it could be whatever work they seem to be doing @ the ESB. Channel 7 is typically a solid 91-92%, and was last night at this same antenna position.


In any event, I'm very happy with what appears to be improved MY9 reception.


I still cannot get WNYW-FOX 5.1 @ RF 44. That shows up on my meter as either zero or 81%, and mostly zero. I need 80 to lock a station and at least 83 for any kind of reception at all and at least 84% for any kind of quasi-decent reception. Solid 85% and above gives perfect reception and solid 84-85 gives solid reception with occasional glitches.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20969533
> 
> 
> 7 was fine last night at that time. i was channel surfing and i remember seeing the end of greys anatomy. its just you.



Something is wrong with 7. I know because my mom said she had trouble watching dancing with the stars.










The PSIP data is gone. HDHomeRun software can pick out the individual streams, but media center and TSReader can't pick up a thing.


Doesn't seem to affect the cable company from getting them though. They're either immune to this or are probably using a direct fiber feed.


----------



## JoeSchmoe007

Just watched and episode of "Without a trace" in HD on 31.1 (IONHD) and noticed a strong [over]sharpening effect during the whole show. Doesn't seem like a compression because there is not much resolution loss but this oversharpening effect just doesn't make sense.


Now they are showing "Criminal minds" and it suffers from the same.


Commercials don't exhibit this but they all seem to be SD.


I don't really watch it often but whenever I tune in I notice this oversharpening. It's not on any other channel I receive. I am in Brooklyn FWIW.


Can anyone explain this?


----------



## raj2001

Looks like ABC 7 is back.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20972392
> 
> 
> ...Solid 85% and above gives perfect reception and solid 84-85 gives solid reception with occasional glitches.



I watched the entire game last night and I can't recall so much as one glitch the whole time, so it does seem that MY9 reception is much improved for me.


At the moment.


If it's improved for me, I assume it's improved for everyone else.


I have the Yankee game tonight (if they play) so we'll see how it is during this rainy weather.


If they play.


My antenna isn't toward NYC at the moment so I can't check it right now and I won't be turning it if the game is postponed.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20974434
> 
> 
> ...My antenna isn't toward NYC at the moment so I can't check it right now and I won't be turning it if the game is postponed.



It's now 1:58 PM and I did turn my antenna toward NYC and here are the current readings (all VERY good) -


- MY9 - solid 86%

- 11, 13, 4 - solid 87%

- 7 - solid 92%


I'd have to say that whatever work they're doin at the ESB is improving my reception.


Also, that maple tree I have in my NYC LOS is still fully leafed-out, so I guess I know that's not really any problem. The weather is very overcast and rainy but fairly warm. It's not actually raining anymore but was earlier and there's still a lot of moisture in the air.


I'll get a better feel for that tree's impact after the leaves go away.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20975501
> 
> 
> It's now 1:58 PM and I did turn my antenna toward NYC and here are the current readings (all VERY good) -
> 
> 
> - MY9 - solid 86%
> 
> - 11, 13, 4 - solid 87%
> 
> - 7 - solid 92%
> 
> 
> I'd have to say that whatever work they're doin at the ESB is improving my reception.
> 
> 
> Also, that maple tree I have in my NYC LOS is still fully leafed-out, so I guess I know that's not really any problem. The weather is very overcast and rainy but fairly warm. It's not actually raining anymore but was earlier and there's still a lot of moisture in the air.
> 
> 
> I'll get a better feel for that tree's impact after the leaves go away.



Don't get too excited as I am betting it is just tropo and your reception issues are still with you.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20975953
> 
> 
> Don't get too excited as I am betting it is just tropo and your reception issues are still with you.



Could be, but tropo index is currently "NIL"

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20976674
> 
> 
> Could be, but tropo index is currently "NIL"
> 
> http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html



Not sure how accurate those indexes are. I'm sure they are only as good (and perhaps less accurate) as the weather service forecasts and we know how accurate they are.


----------



## AloEuro

The other day I've received 2nd invitation to get free cellphone/minutes the choice of 1 of 3 hardware Motorola - LG - Samsung.


I know it doesn't belong to this tread, but your opinion/recomendation which of the 3 is better I value more than Joe' wife $40 a month Samsung, Thank you, Alo


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20978887
> 
> 
> Not sure how accurate those indexes are. I'm sure they are only as good (and perhaps less accurate) as the weather service forecasts and we know how accurate they are.




The DXinfocentre tropo reports are based on actual communications taking place. They are very accurate.


----------



## antennas rule

Is the spire on that structure going to be a television mast? I read things that refer to it as a broadcast mast. If it is not true I would hope a new place for a taller structure would go up. Hopefully similar to the Tokyo Sky Tree. That beauty is 2080 feet tall. A true monument to television transmission service!


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antennas rule* /forum/post/20982418
> 
> 
> Is the spire on that structure going to be a television mast? I read things that refer to it as a broadcast mast. If it is not true I would hope a new place for a taller structure would go up. Hopefully similar to the Tokyo Sky Tree. That beauty is 2080 feet tall. A true monument to television transmission service!



with all the toll revenue they will collect from us. (bridges, tunnels) they'll have the funds to put a television array at freedom tower.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/20980085
> 
> 
> The DXinfocentre tropo reports are based on actual communications taking place. They are very accurate.



You believe what you want to believe. I do not find these any more accurate or reliable than weather forecasts. In fact not of any value for me at my location.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> with all the toll revenue they will collect from us. (bridges, tunnels) they'll have the funds to put a television array at freedom tower.



Huh?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20983885
> 
> 
> You believe what you want to believe. I do not find these any more accurate or reliable than weather forecasts. In fact not of any value for me at my location.



Weather forecasts? You need to stop livin in the 50's and get with the program. Weather forecasts these days are very accurate. It's not a matter of opinion, it's simply what it is.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20983975
> 
> 
> Weather forecasts? You need to stop livin in the 50's and get with the program. Weather forecasts these days are very accurate. It's not a matter of opinion, it's simply what it is.



We were supposed to have heavy rain Thursday and now they changed it to Friday.


Hurricane Irene forecasting was all messed up. There was supposed to be major flooding in lower Manhatten of epic proportions and instead it happened everywhere else.


Weather forecasting is an Art and NOT a science. They are right 99% of the time when they tell you what is happening right now. When they try to forecast what is happening 2-3 days from now they are wrong on the timing of rain, sun, wind etc. By the way most of the weather people forecast what is happening in NY City and get NJ weather wrong. Sunny in Morris county and raining in Monmouth county.


The weather forecasting is no better today than it was 100 years ago even with the satelites which only tell you what is happening now too. Not what is going to happen.


----------



## T-Max

BTW, my MY9 reception during Tuesday night's game continued to be excellent and was also the same in the morning. I saw a couple of glitches during the game and maybe not more than the couple. So I'm still thinking that the work they're doing on the ESB is responsible for what appears to clearly be better MY9 reception for me.


Does anybody know exactly what work they are doin' on those late nites when they switch to the backup antenna? (Trip?)


I used to have a good email for one of the ch 5 engineers. Maybe I'll dig that out and give it a go and see if it still works (and he still works there). That was before the transition and before they switched things around after the transition (I think it was). Namely, they used to have 9.1 and 9.2 both at RF 38 and 5.1 and 5.2 at RF 44. When that was the deal, I got everything (5.1, 5.2, 9.1, 9.1). Then they switched things around and put 5.2 @ RF 38 and 9.2 @ RF 44. After they did that, I no longer got the RF 44 channels (5.1 and 9.2), and still don't.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/20983885
> 
> 
> You believe what you want to believe. I do not find these any more accurate or reliable than weather forecasts. In fact not of any value for me at my location.



I have TV reception from 16 states logged post analog shutdown. I find the DXinfocentre info quite useful. You may not. I don't like anchovies. Maybe you do.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/20985309
> 
> 
> I have TV reception from 16 states logged post analog shutdown. I find the DXinfocentre info quite useful. You may not. I don't like anchovies. Maybe you do.



everyone is has their opinion, dxinfo also factures in weather fronts and precipitation coming, i agree tropo map is 90% reliable for me.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> with all the toll revenue they will collect from us. (bridges, tunnels) they'll have the funds to put a television array at freedom tower.



If we follow your logic,TV ad revenues then should go to maintain the bridges & tunnels.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/20983975
> 
> 
> 
> Weather forecasts? You need to stop livin in the 50's and get with the program. Weather forecasts these days are very accurate. It's not a matter of opinion, it's simply what it is.


----------



## DTVintermods

The Port Authority owned the analog TV mast on WTC1. They have the $$--as long as we pay the tolls


----------



## SnellKrell

Why did you omit digital?


----------



## keyboard21

Still no CBS sub-station or any news? I am beginning to think it was a prank


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still no CBS sub-station or any news? I am beginning to think it was a prank



I posted an article a few pages back with an on air date and what it's going to have. What else do you want?


----------



## nycdigital09

nyctveng, im not alluding that it was a wise idea to use the revenue from tolls for tv mast, what i'm saying is that tolls will cover all the expenses at wtc, hopefully, I don't like the idea, but like someone said before, silverstein insured the trade, for billions, (he made out like a bandit) this overrun budget should be coming from his pocket not the public. you know once the building is up, the city government is not going revert to what the tolls were prior. this city is good at one thing and one thing only, leaving you dead and broke. they being doing this to everyone since the english stole manhattan from the dutch


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20986346
> 
> 
> Why did you omit digital?



Because I believe that the small digital panel antenna that was added sometime before the attack 9/11 was paid for by the stations that shared it.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20987241
> 
> 
> I posted an article a few pages back with an on air date and what it's going to have. What else do you want?



Can you copy any paste that post? I either missed it or it was old news.

*It seems it was the latter. I totally missed your post. Sorry.


Oh Ok never mind I sifted thru your large amount of posts and did find the article. So late September? I guess they got a week to get this up and running.



Thanks for the info*


----------



## SnellKrell

There's no such thing as an "analog mast."


The buidlings - WTC and ESB own and provide masts to stations.

Stations pay rent to affix their antennas on those masts, analog or digital.

Additionaly, they rent space for their transmitters.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20990276
> 
> 
> Can you copy any paste that post? I either missed it or it was old news.
> 
> 
> It seems it was the latter. I totally missed your post. Sorry.
> 
> 
> Oh Ok never mind I sifted thru your large amount of posts and did find the article. So late September? I guess they got a week to get this up and running.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info



strange. i lifted the article behind a paywall using google cache from one of those industry sitesand posted it in this thread. a mod had to delete it, i know im not going crazy. in fact it was a quote reply to Trip.


anyway here is an article that basically says this month:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118042250 


from what i remember from the article. its going to launch in NY at the end of this month or early october.


----------



## SnellKrell

Can't wait for the re-treading of such questionable content!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20990406
> 
> 
> strange. i lifted the article behind a paywall using google cache from one of those industry sitesand posted it in this thread. a mod had to delete it, i know im not going crazy. in fact it was a quote reply to Trip.
> 
> 
> anyway here is an article that basically says this month:
> http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118042250
> 
> 
> from what i remember from the article. its going to launch in NY at the end of this month or early october.



Hey thanks. Glad you have ways of getting things. Info about public TV, should not be payperview. imo


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/20990431
> 
> 
> Can't wait for the re-treading of such questionable content!



Way to stay positive.










Maybe it will be the first really COOL







Sub-station


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/20990406
> 
> 
> strange. i lifted the article behind a paywall using google cache from one of those industry sitesand posted it in this thread. a mod had to delete it, i know im not going crazy.



Wrong on at least one count.


You post referencing the CBS subchannel is still right where you made it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=14485


----------



## Ken H

A number of unnecessary off topic comments have been edited and/or deleted. Comments directed at other members and not the issues are not allowed.


If this continues, those involved will lose the ability to participate at AVS. Permanently.


----------



## keyboard21

Just to let others know. HSN 39.5 stopped working on some boxes like Dishpal and others. When turning to the channel it would freeze in 3 seconds,but audio would still play. This has been going on for over a year. Even though when the channel first came out it was working just fine. I seen this before when the dishpal first came out. It happened on another channel. An e-mail campaign had the station fix the ENCODING issue on their end.


After a year of trying to email HSN and the station.


I am glad to report they fixed the Encoding Issue on their end and it is working normally.


----------



## LenL

I'm still waiting for the promised improvements since NJ Public TV was sold....


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21000472
> 
> 
> Just to let others know. HSN 39.5 stopped working on some boxes like Dishpal and others. When turning to the channel it would freeze in 3 seconds,but audio would still play. This has been going on for over a year. Even though when the channel first came out it was working just fine. I seen this before when the dishpal first came out. It happened on another channel. An e-mail campaign had the station fix the ENCODING issue on their end.
> 
> 
> After a year of trying to email HSN and the station.
> 
> 
> I am glad to report they fixed the Encoding Issue on their end and it is working normally.



couldn't care less for hsn, there is too many hsn stations allready 1 less i wouldn't sleep over.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21000532
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for the promised improvements since NJ Public TV was sold....



there is no njtv news program, took away a sub, I think we been had


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21002560
> 
> 
> couldn't care less for hsn, there is too many hsn stations allready 1 less i wouldn't sleep over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is no njtv news program, took away a sub, I think we been had



See the thing is I agree with you that HSN is worthless. My aunt likes to watch it. She can not get the one on channel 60. So she only gets 39.5.


I guess some like HSN. Maybe she learns about the new technology thru the annoying sales pitch?


Anyway I thought there might be others who also watch HSN and would want to know.


At least I am not talking about CBS new substation that is not here yet. So be thankful lol


----------



## LenL

I don't have access to any HSN channels where I am at. So I don't know that there are a lot of HSN channels on OTA. Sure there are infomercials running all the time hawking products but as to legit HSN on OTA I think a lot of people would like to have at least one station.


I have never bought a product from HSN but I know a lot of people have shopped HSN.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21005443
> 
> 
> I don't have access to any HSN channels where I am at. So I don't know that there are a lot of HSN channels on OTA. Sure there are infomercials running all the time hawking products but as to legit HSN on OTA I think a lot of people would like to have at least one station.
> 
> 
> I have never bought a product from HSN but I know a lot of people have shopped HSN.



Well where my aunt lives. She can get channel 39.5. Channel 60 is the only other HSN that I know of. The signal is not strong enough for us to get a steady lock.


I was e-mailing HSN and the channel 39.5 for over a year. I seen this before with one other station. It seems to be a problem with the ENCODED signal. Some boxes can not pick up certain codes. Or it causes freezing like we got.


It worked for 6 months when channel came on. Then locked (freeze) for over a year. They changed something in the signal encoding.


Anyway seems the one guy at the switch finally WOKE UP.


My aunt likes to watch. She gets to see the new TV's ect. Strange but it is like entertainment. I do not understand HSN for entertainment, but that is not my job to understand. As LEAD tech (lol) My job is to get the most channels as possible.


----------



## nycdigital09

kb21 I get the opposite stations from you I can get 60.1 60.2 fine, both Hsn btw, I can't get 39 without breakup. sometimes is ok. also wlny tv55 i can get 45.1 some of time, but not all of the time. I think 60.2 and 39.5 are the same channel, i tried viewing both and theyre both the same. btw sorry if i confused anyone.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21007101
> 
> 
> kb21 I get the opposite stations from you I can get 60.1 60.2 fine, both Hsn btw, I can't get 39 without breakup. sometimes is ok. also wlny tv55 i can get 45.1 some of time, but not all of the time. I think 60.2 and 39.5 are the same channel, i tried viewing both and theyre both the same. btw sorry if i confused anyone.



You would think that a channel like HSN. That makes a living selling stuff. Would make sure that Everyone can view their programing.


Apparently they did not care. Took over a year.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21002560
> 
> 
> there is no njtv news program, took away a sub, I think we been had



When their news program, NJ Today, started up, it had very little original reporting. They're getting better, and are hiring more reporters, but if you appreciated NJN's reporting of local issues, then NJ Today is a far cry from what once was.


It's still early yet. Give it time....


----------



## T-Max

My9 reception at the moment (8:42p) is very good. I've turned my antenna to NYC for the Yankee game. Looks like all the ESB antenna stations are improved:


- MY9: solid 86% with very occasional drops to 85

- ch 11: solid 87%

- ch 13: solid 87%

- ch 4: solid 87%

- ch 7: solid 91%


Anything 85% or above is solid reception. 84% gives more or less decent reception with some glitches, and anything below that is no good.


ch 5.1 is still coming in at 0-81% and I still can't lock it. My email address for the engineer there is still good and he advised that they had recently fixed some problems and that my reception should be improved, but it's same as always.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My9 reception at the moment (8:42p) is very good. I've turned my antenna to NYC for the Yankee game. Looks like all the ESB antenna stations are improved:
> 
> 
> - MY9: solid 86% with very occasional drops to 85
> 
> - ch 11: solid 87%
> 
> - ch 13: solid 87%
> 
> - ch 4: solid 87%
> 
> - ch 7: solid 91%
> 
> 
> Anything 85% or above is solid reception. 84% gives more or less decent reception with some glitches, and anything below that is no good.
> 
> 
> ch 5.1 is still coming in at 0-81% and I still can't lock it. My email address for the engineer there is still good and he advised that they had recently fixed some problems and that my reception should be improved, but it's same as always.



Have u bothered to try a preamp yet or still just blaming your reception on the stations?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED*


Effective Monday, September 26, 2011, Luken Communications LLC's Retro Television Network (RTV) has lost its New York City television affiliate.


WKOB-LD New York, Channel 2.3 (Virtual Channel 42.3), had served as the networks NYC area affiliate since the Summer of 2010. Throughout the time it was carried on WKOB-LD, the retransmitted signal suffered from intermittent aural and color distortion issues which were isolated to the feed WKOB-LD received from RTV. This interference presented a challenging and often frustrating viewing experience to many fans who resoundingly welcomed the news that RTV, a classic TV network whose distribution consists largely of over-the-air digital subchannels, would be available to viewers in and around New York City.


Further complicating the experience for those viewers was and continues to be the interference-prone VHF-Lo signal WKOB-LD transmits over. The station has recently petitioned the fcc for a ten-fold power increase to help alleviate and combat some of the difficulties their audience has encountered when trying to tune into the station. No official action has yet been taken on this application.


Another Luken station, Tuff TV, aired briefly over WKOB-LD (42-4) between January 19 and March 30, 2011. Tuff TV suffered from the same intermittant distortion issues as RTV. WKOB-LD replaced the station with HOT TV: History Of Television.


WKOB-LD has chosen a similar fate for 42-3. On September 26, 2011, the station launched WKOB 42.3 24/7 Movie Network. It is locally produced and consists of 1930s through 1960s public domain movies (some of which likely air on HOT TV). A slate showing the road-sign for the defunct Buffalo Drive-In (closed since late 2007) places the legal ID and "24/7 Movie Network" in the marquee.


The only remnant of the former occupant of this subchannel is found in the PSIP channel name. 42-3 still lists as "RetroTV". The era of movies airing on the new WKOB 42.3 24/7 Movie Network do qualify as such.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21012390
> 
> *RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED*
> 
> 
> Effective Monday, September 26, 2011, Luken Communications LLC's Retro Television Network (RTV) has lost its New York City television affiliate.



More bad news for RTN, losing the nations largest TV market. They also lost the #11 market, Detroit, in the last month.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21012390
> 
> *RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED*
> 
> 
> Effective Monday, September 26, 2011, Luken Communications LLC's Retro Television Network (RTV) has lost its New York City television affiliate.
> 
> 
> WKOB-LD New York, Channel 2.3 (Virtual Channel 42.3), had served as the networks NYC area affiliate since the Summer of 2010. Throughout the time it was carried on WKOB-LD, the retransmitted signal suffered from intermittent aural and color distortion issues which were isolated to the feed WKOB-LD received from RTV. This interference presented a challenging and often frustrating viewing experience to many fans who resoundingly welcomed the news that RTV, a classic TV network whose distribution consists largely of over-the-air digital subchannels, would be available to viewers in and around New York City.
> 
> 
> Further complicating the experience for those viewers was and continues to be the interference-prone VHF-Lo signal WKOB-LD transmits over. The station has recently petitioned the fcc for a ten-fold power increase to help alleviate and combat some of the difficulties their audience has encountered when trying to tune into the station. No official action has yet been taken on this application.
> 
> 
> Another Luken station, Tuff TV, aired briefly over WKOB-LD (42-4) between January 19 and March 30, 2011. Tuff TV suffered from the same intermittant distortion issues as RTV. WKOB-LD replaced the station with HOT TV: History Of Television.
> 
> 
> WKOB-LD has chosen a similar fate for 42-3. On September 26, 2011, the station launched WKOB 42.3 24/7 Movie Network. It is locally produced and consists of 1930s through 1960s public domain movies (some of which likely air on HOT TV). A slate showing the road-sign for the defunct Buffalo Drive-In (closed since late 2007) places the legal ID and "24/7 Movie Network" in the marquee.
> 
> 
> The only remnant of the former occupant of this subchannel is found in the PSIP channel name. 42-3 still lists as "RetroTV". The era of movies airing on the new WKOB 42.3 24/7 Movie Network do qualify as such.



To be honest I could not get the station and knew it would die. Once Antenna TV was launched by Tribune. They could not compete.


Nothing worse then HALF A TRY. That is what they did with that cheap carrier they used.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21013873
> 
> 
> To be honest I could not get the station and knew it would die. Once Antenna TV was launched by Tribune. They could not compete.
> 
> 
> Nothing worse then HALF A TRY. That is what they did with that cheap carrier they used.



So true. And even when I could get the signal, it never enjoyable. Audio not in sync, audio only from the surrounds, colour only on ads, etc.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/21015843
> 
> 
> So true. And even when I could get the signal, it never enjoyable. Audio not in sync, audio only from the surrounds, colour only on ads, etc.



Instead of Promoting RTV with a great signal and great programing. They team up with a station that could not provide Signal, Quality Audio, and Quality picture.


So it makes RTV look like a garbage station.


I wonder why they could not use channel 39? They got empty slots and come in. Also I am sure they are cheap.


I also hear Antenna TV is popular. Shows you what a real network can do.


YET


There is a station that had a old man and his wife talking religion 24/7 I forget that channel since I deleted it. But the point is I bet he is still on the air and has more coverage. lol


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21016340
> 
> 
> Instead of Promoting RTV with a great signal and great programing. They team up with a station that could not provide Signal, Quality Audio, and Quality picture.
> 
> 
> So it makes RTV look like a garbage station.



Keyboard21, RTV is the one at fault here. The same intermittent color and out-of-sync audio distortions are present on The .1 and .2 of WPVN-LD Aurora, Illinois, which carry RTV and Tuff TV, respectively. The remaining four of that stations subchannels have no distortion issues. From the public comments on a Facebook page that _appears_ to be run by RTV, other affiliates experience the same problems also.


WKOB-LD can and now does provide quality audio and video on ALL of their subchannels. The signal issues are not the fault of the station, but the fault of physics and an inept fcc which requires archaic maximum power levels.


WKOB, as a low-power station, has actually been pushed around for years. They were originally on channel 53, but were forced out because of the digital transition (WFUT-DT was assigned channel 53 pre-transition), so they tried for channel 48. WRNN-TV spent about $1 million to prove WKOB was not worthy of the class A status they were seeking and, most importantly, to keep them off of channel 48. Then it was announced that channels 52-69 would be phased out, reducing the TV landscape. Finally, WKOB was granted channel 42 but had to operate with a stringent coverage pattern to protect WSAH-TV in Connecticut and a soon-to-be vacated analog WXTV channel 41. With the TV bands getting very crowded and other restrictions, channel 2 was the only logical option for them to go for, so they built-out their digital facilities and restarted operation there last year. I think they have done the best they can with the situation they have been dealt. They are trying now for a ten-fold power increase, but there is lots of red tape and they are dealing with an agency that for all intents and purposes hates broadcast TV.


The station is owned by Nave, and I frequently see PSAs on the station alerting viewers to the spectrum threat which exists and advises people contact their representatives to voice their opposition. The PSA is well produced. Nave deserves a lot of credit for not only bringing quality programming to the NYC area, but for doing what the major networks can't seem to find the courage or decency to do which is to alert the public about the threat to OTA TV. The irony is that Naves' channel 2 allocation is not even a target in the cross-hairs of the fcc's snipers.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21016340
> 
> 
> I wonder why they could not use channel 39? They got empty slots and come in. Also I am sure they are cheap.



I have been unable to decode channel 39, WNYN-LD, and only get a trace signal when I tune to it. So I would prefer that channel not carry any programming that I would like to watch










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21016340
> 
> 
> I also hear Antenna TV is popular. Shows you what a real network can do.



Yes, in a way it is like a "real network" because most of the affiliates are Tribune-owned stations. Their affiliates consist of WGN-TV Chicago, KTLA Los Angeles, and WPIX New York, among others. I think just about every one of their affiliates is a full-power station with a large coverage area and cable carriage. They have also just picked up the NBCUniversal library rights that RTV allowed to expire. Many of the shows that had aired on RTV until June will be carried on Antenna TV beginning in a few days.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21016340
> 
> 
> There is a station that had a old man and his wife talking religion 24/7 I forget that channel since I deleted it. But the point is I bet he is still on the air and has more coverage. lol



Are you referring to the guy sitting in the chair with the artificial plants surrounding him and calling into his show? If so, he's been off that station (which his company owns) since two weeks after the rapture he predicted to occur in May did not happen. He claims the world will probably end in October







I am thinking this is the station you mean since I don't know of any other around here that fits the description you provided.


----------



## nycdigital09

Rtv Loses New York City Affiliate. not so, wsah tv ch43 is considered part of nyc. is in my locals on directv.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21018358
> 
> 
> Rtv Loses New York City Affiliate. not so, wsah tv ch43 is considered part of nyc. is in my locals on directv.



WSAH is a television station licensed to Bridgeport, Connecticut. Technically, it is in the New York City television market, but it is a rim-shot signal










Furthermore, the twelve hour RTV block WSAH alternates with twelve hours of infomercials means the Bridgeport station is not a full-time RTV affiliate as WKOB-LD, licensed to and transmitting from New York City, had been.


I think DirecTV is more inclusive with respect to which local OTA stations they retransmit than cable companies are. Price and content-wise, I think satellite companies are far superior to cable companies.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21018565
> 
> 
> WSAH is a television station licensed to Bridgeport, Connecticut. Technically, it is in the New York City television market, but it is a rim-shot signal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Furthermore, the twelve hour RTV block WSAH alternates with twelve hours of infomercials means the Bridgeport station is not a full-time RTV affiliate as WKOB-LD, licensed to and transmitting from New York City, had been.
> 
> 
> I think DirecTV is more inclusive with respect to which local OTA stations they retransmit than cable companies are. Price and content-wise, I think satellite companies are far superior to cable companies.



have you heard if metv is coming to nyc. metv has a greater library of shows, imho is far superior to any other nostalgia type stations ei. antennatv thistv.


----------



## Aero 1

anyone else seeing a dramatic drop in signal quality and or strength on 5.1 lately? been seeing it for a week now.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, am having problems even using my outdoor antenna!


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21020250
> 
> 
> Yes, am having problems even using my outdoor antenna!



thanks. i thought it was just me. i thought it was maybe the MOCA network i put in a month ago that was causing interference but i ruled that out.


i bought one of those Mohu leaf antennas to check it out (it works great by the way, better than other table top antennas) and i saw 5.1 coming in bad.


thanks for the assurance that its not just me.


----------



## SnellKrell

Our both having problems receiving 44 doesn't necessarily mean it's

the station's fault.


These reception problems could be totally unrelated to what's happening with the station!


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21020354
> 
> 
> Our both having problems receiving 44 doesn't necessarily mean it's
> 
> the station's fault.
> 
> 
> These reception problems could be totally unrelated to what's happening with the station!



never said that. i know that. only wanted to rule out that it was just me or my setup.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21020232
> 
> 
> anyone else seeing a dramatic drop in signal quality and or strength on 5.1 lately? been seeing it for a week now.



I just passed your post on to my 5.1 engineer contact. As I said above, I recently had contact with him and long story short, my reception of 5.1 seems to be same as it has been for quite a long time.


Which is to say I can't get it at all.


See my prior post -- he told me that they'd been having some problems and replaced a tube just last Friday and wanted to know if I'm seeing a difference.


So maybe they're still having some issues. I'll let you know if I get any relevant feedback from him.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21020527
> 
> 
> I just passed your post on to my 5.1 engineer contact. As I said above, I recently had contact with him and long story short, my reception of 5.1 seems to be same as it has been for quite a long time.
> 
> 
> Which is to say I can't get it at all.
> 
> 
> See my prior post -- he told me that they'd been having some problems and replaced a tube just last Friday and wanted to know if I'm seeing a difference.
> 
> 
> So maybe they're still having some issues. I'll let you know if I get any relevant feedback from him.



thanks. if you want more info for the engineer, let me know. 15 miles out, never had a problem, always came in at 90+ now im seeing 45 - 50.


----------



## SnellKrell

"never said that. i know that. only wanted to rule out that it was just me or my setup."


I inferred incorrectly!


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21020557
> 
> 
> thanks. if you want more info for the engineer, let me know. 15 miles out, never had a problem, always came in at 90+ now im seeing 45 - 50.



I told him he should read the followup posts, so he hopefully will because I think he'll appreciate your feedback about your current situation.


BTW, he confirmed that the ESB folks are doing quite a bit of overnight maintenance work which:

_...centers on the Tower where the building is doing maintenance painting, mechanical repairs, inspections along with removing much of the old unused analog transmitter antenna systems (feedlines and antenna’s). This is expected to go on well into next year._


Perhaps this could turn out to be good news for me. If your reception goes back to where it was, maybe I should then start to get 5.1? Let me know if your reception gets back to its prior level. I don't know that I had checked 5.1 reception that much in the past until very recently, so maybe I've been getting it in recent months and just didn't know it?


Since I didn't have it locked in, I'd have to have done a re-scan to see if I was getting it and I don't normally do that when I turn toward NYC to watch a Yankee game, which is basically the only time I go to NYC for TV.


----------



## Aero 1

what a crappy time for 5.1 to have problems. football season and now the baseball LCS next week.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21020879
> 
> 
> what a crappy time for 5.1 to have problems. football season and now the baseball LCS next week.



How's your MY9 reception? You can get the 5.1 programming on 5.2 as the MY9 subchannel @ RF 38.


But, of course, it's SD, not HD.


Which does kinda suck but it's better than nothing.


I will have baseball coverage on the Philly Fox channel (29). For football, I'm forced to go to 5.2 for the Giants game only when the Eagles and Giants play at the same time and 29 quite naturally carries the Eagles game.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21020879
> 
> 
> what a crappy time for 5.1 to have problems. football season and now the baseball LCS next week.



My reception for 5.1 FOX is excellent. Over 90% which is rock solid for me. There were storms that came through the past 24-48 hours that may have impacted you and others....


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21020232
> 
> 
> anyone else seeing a dramatic drop in signal quality and or strength on 5.1 lately? been seeing it for a week now.



yes, it seems like all the stations have dropped their signal somewhat, it could it be atmospherics. a cold front its on its way


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21021752
> 
> 
> yes, it seems like all the stations have dropped their signal somewhat, it could it be atmospherics. a cold front its on its way



Nothing unusual seen at my location up till now. I have 3 antennas for OTA and none of them have shown any changes from June/July/August. I usually see changes in the Nov/Dec period that impact my reception of one channel......CBS 2.1 goes south on my CM4228. That is the antenna that is the highest up at my house.


----------



## nycdigital09

len i looked at signal propogation maps from rabbitears.com according to longley-rice coverage at your location you should a see a signal from allentown-easton stations wfmz ch46 which shows metv and pbs wlvt ch39. your fortunate you have cm4228a they go for a pretty penny these days. ps let me know if you ever want to trade antennas or sell. i got 91xg that i would part with.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey nycdigital09,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21019648
> 
> 
> have you heard if metv is coming to nyc. metv has a greater library of shows, imho is far superior to any other nostalgia type stations ei. antennatv thistv.



The good news is that Me-TV is expanding its affiliates in several different markets rapidly and the list seems to be growing monthly. The bad news is that NYC is not on that list - right now, anyway.


Me-TV is looking to be carried on a channel that offers cable penetration or could offer it. That eliminates all of the low power stations as none of them have cable penetration unless they lease a spot on a cable companies lineup.


I don't have to rehash the existing issues in the NYC market - few independents and those which exist usually program exclusively to ethnic audiences, many networks which will not deviate from protocol, etc.


I agree they have an excellent lineup, with Antenna TV coming in second. Until RTV gets its act together, I don't think they qualify as a classic TV network at the moment.


Ironically, you may have provided an answer for getting Me-TV into this market when you referenced WSAH Bridgeport. They are about the only full-power TV station I can think of which is independent, offers cable and satellite penetration, is willing to LMA their time to a non-ethnic and non-religious entity, and is technically in the NYC market.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21023355
> 
> 
> Hey nycdigital09,
> 
> 
> The good news is that Me-TV is expanding its affiliates in several different markets rapidly and the list seems to be growing monthly. The bad news is that NYC is not on that list - right now, anyway.
> 
> 
> Me-TV is looking to be carried on a channel that offers cable penetration or could offer it. That eliminates all of the low power stations as none of them have cable penetration unless they lease a spot on a cable companies lineup.
> 
> 
> I don't have to rehash the existing issues in the NYC market - few independents and those which exist usually program exclusively to ethnic audiences, many networks which will not deviate from protocol, etc.
> 
> 
> I agree they have an excellent lineup, with Antenna TV coming in second. Until RTV gets its act together, I don't think they qualify as a classic TV network at the moment.
> 
> 
> Ironically, you may have provided an answer for getting Me-TV into this market when you referenced WSAH Bridgeport. They are about the only full-power TV station I can think of which is independent, offers cable and satellite penetration, is willing to LMA their time to a non-ethnic and non-religious entity, and is technically in the NYC market.



Well Today is the LAST day of September and still NO CBS sub channel?


Also the worst part is no news on the progress or lack of


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21023495
> 
> 
> Well Today is the LAST day of September and still NO CBS sub channel?
> 
> 
> Also the worst part is no news on the progress or lack of



patience, patience my boy, what you seek you shall find


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21022982
> 
> 
> len i looked at signal propogation maps from rabbitears.com according to longley-rice coverage at your location you should a see a signal from allentown-easton stations wfmz ch46 which shows metv and pbs wlvt ch39. your fortunate you have cm4228a they go for a pretty penny these days. ps let me know if you ever want to trade antennas or sell. i got 91xg that i would part with.



If my CM4228a was on a rotor I would try to get other channels but right now it is locked in on the ESB and I will not attempt to climb up and manually rotate it. My other 2 antennas are not high off the ground and are not mounted where I could rotate tham anyway.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21024719
> 
> 
> If my CM4228a was on a rotor I would try to get other channels but right now it is locked in on the ESB and I will not attempt to climb up and manually rotate it. My other 2 antennas are not high off the ground and are not mounted where I could rotate tham anyway.



you don't mention if youre using a dedicated hi-vhf antenna or not. from your location, you probably need one. ps i trade you my 91xg and brand new never put up winegard 1713 hi vhf antenna for your 4228a


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21026996
> 
> 
> you don't mention if youre using a dedicated hi-vhf antenna or not. from your location, you probably need one. ps i trade you my 91xg and brand new never put up winegard 1713 hi vhf antenna for your 4228a



I have the CM4228 and 2 homebuilt Grey Hoverman antennas sitting below the CM4228. I do not have a dedicated VHF antenna.


----------



## ludovik14

Hello everyone this problem started about 2 months ago. When watching 11.2 11.3 11.4 I get a consistent freezing picture every 3 seconds audio plays just fine. Every other major local chanel shows just fine. Chanel 11.1 also shows without this problem. I am watching on a sony branded hdtv.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ludovik14* /forum/post/21029418
> 
> 
> Hello everyone this problem started about 2 months ago. When watching 11.2 11.3 11.4 I get a consistent freezing picture every 3 seconds audio plays just fine. Every other major local chanel shows just fine. Chanel 11.1 also shows without this problem. I am watching on a sony branded hdtv.



We were just discussing this problem on another channel 39.5 . I seen this issue on a major network year ago. It seems to be how the channel is encoding the signal. We have a Dish DTVpal DVR and that box has trouble with certain encoding signals. Channel 39.5 HSN Just fixed the issue on their end. Abet one year later.


You did not mention what equipment you have? I can tell you ALL Channel 11 is working fine with us.


I suggest that you try a reset on your box or TV. If you still have the issue also try moving antenna a little bit. If all this fails. Then it has to be an encoding issue with your box or TV. Do you just have this problem on one TV? Or more then one?


If you have a free digital box. Changing the box to a different brand could work as long as the new box uses different encoding.


OR


You can do what we did when the problem first happened. E-mAIL or Call Tribune and try to get the tech engineer's e-mail. Explain what is happening and with a little luck they will fix the problem on their end.


So bottom line is make sure you do hard resets of the problem equipment before you bother Tribune.


PS I just read that you are using a SONY HDTV. Sorry I missed that. I would call Sony and ask if there is a fix to this issue on their end. Like an update.


GLTY


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest that you try a reset on your box or TV. If you still have the issue also try moving antenna a little bit. If all this fails. Then it has to be an encoding issue with your box or TV. Do you just have this problem on one TV? Or more then one?
> 
> 
> If you have a free digital box. Changing the box to a different brand could work as long as the new box uses different encoding.
> 
> 
> 
> GLTY



boxes and tv's do not encode. Do u mean decode?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21029849
> 
> 
> boxes and tv's do not encode. Do u mean decode?



No I meant what I said. The Channels ENCODE the signals. Some TV's and boxes can not read (DECODE) them. Others know more then I. They can give you the math reason why. I just give it in Layman's terms


----------



## keyboard21

TECH Question:


Let's say I have an extra POWER splitter.


VSMA-601C


1-Port

Bi-Directional

15dB forward gain (32x)

52-1000 MHz (forward)

5-42 MHz (return)

Return Path Insertion Loss - 0.8 dB

Surge Protection 6000v











Would this work with OTA (Antenna) As well as QAM cable?


Would a +15 DB signal boost get me the fringe stations?


Would it do any harm in trying? IE Damage to box or TV


I wanted to try this on my aunts Antenna. I am thinking worse case is that this power splitter will give too much signal to the good stations. In which case I can just take it off. So I ask again. Any harm in trying?


Thanks guys


----------



## George Molnar

The device you have posted is not a two way divider. It is a 15 dB amplifier. One port is the low level signal input. One port is the high level signal output. One port is where you insert power into the device to run the amplifier, which comes from a "wall wart" device. The amplifier also has return capabilities where signals below 42 MHz are shunted backwards around the forward amplifier. Cable companies use this return path for sending data from the subscriber to the cable company for cable modems, on demand, and other features. It will give you 15 dB boost but if the input signal is too strong the amplifier could get overloaded creating noise across all channels. It will work for OTA but could be overloaded by nearby FM stations or two-way communications radios (fire, police, etc.)


----------



## nycdigital09

i use a similar booster for my modem connection, this would boost qam and ota signals but not to the point of bringing in fringe stations. is only a 15db.


no harm to your equipment. how much is it?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21030586
> 
> 
> The device you have posted is not a two way divider. It is a 15 dB amplifier. One port is the low level signal input. One port is the high level signal output. One port is where you insert power into the device to run the amplifier, which comes from a "wall wart" device. The amplifier also has return capabilities where signals below 42 MHz are shunted backwards around the forward amplifier. Cable companies use this return path for sending data from the subscriber to the cable company for cable modems, on demand, and other features. It will give you 15 dB boost but if the input signal is too strong the amplifier could get overloaded creating noise across all channels. It will work for OTA but could be overloaded by nearby FM stations or two-way communications radios (fire, police, etc.)



Thanks, This is what I thought. But will it do any harm to my equipment if I tried this device?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21030612
> 
> 
> i use a similar booster for my modem connection, this would boost qam and ota signals but not to the point of bringing in fringe stations. is only a 15db.
> 
> 
> no harm to your equipment. how much is it?



I have an extra one. I am not using it now. So I can try it for free










Normal price if you wanted to buy one is about $45


There is one station that comes in and then goes out. A 1 to 5 point boost would get me the signal.


I do not know if the antenna is not getting the signal or the cable system is losing some DB signal. If it is the latter. Then it should work, I guess


----------



## nycdigital09

hey kb21 did plug in the booster, are you getting stronger signal ? i have similar amplifier but is a motorola brand, is gets me stronger signals on my modem, i have 2 way splitter that i qam cable signals with. is works great. im looking to getting another one similar, but like you said they go for $40-50 kind of pricey. i seen other splitters for $20 is cheaper brand.


----------



## nycdigital09

keyboard here is a pic of the booster i use http://www.buy.com/prod/motorola-484.../10412402.html i use this booster with 2 ports. split one for my cable modem, the other line goes strait into my lcd tv. i qam crime warner unscramble signals suprisingly the channels are hd quality just like dtv.


----------



## ludovik14




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21029718
> 
> 
> We were just discussing this problem on another channel 39.5 . I seen this issue on a major network year ago. It seems to be how the channel is encoding the signal. We have a Dish DTVpal DVR and that box has trouble with certain encoding signals. Channel 39.5 HSN Just fixed the issue on their end. Abet one year later.
> 
> 
> You did not mention what equipment you have? I can tell you ALL Channel 11 is working fine with us.
> 
> 
> I suggest that you try a reset on your box or TV. If you still have the issue also try moving antenna a little bit. If all this fails. Then it has to be an encoding issue with your box or TV. Do you just have this problem on one TV? Or more then one?
> 
> 
> If you have a free digital box. Changing the box to a different brand could work as long as the new box uses different encoding.
> 
> 
> OR
> 
> 
> You can do what we did when the problem first happened. E-mAIL or Call Tribune and try to get the tech engineer's e-mail. Explain what is happening and with a little luck they will fix the problem on their end.
> 
> 
> So bottom line is make sure you do hard resets of the problem equipment before you bother Tribune.
> 
> 
> PS I just read that you are using a SONY HDTV. Sorry I missed that. I would call Sony and ask if there is a fix to this issue on their end. Like an update.
> 
> 
> GLTY



This is what I tried previously.

The TV is a costco model Sony KDL-46VL160 I found on these forums that I can update the firmware using KDL-46Z4100. The firmware update worked but it did not solve this problem. I tried emailing on wpix website about a month ago no response received.


I have had this problem for 2 months beleive it or not after I posted the problem here magically without me doing anything all three chanels started showing like every other chanel. They must have done something because 11.2 and 11.4 are now spanish chanels. 11.3 is an sd chanel of 11.1. I posted this at 9:30am and programming could be different later but i never saw an sd version of 11.1 on 11.3 before.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ludovik14* /forum/post/21037024
> 
> 
> This is what I tried previously.
> 
> The TV is a costco model Sony KDL-46VL160 I found on these forums that I can update the firmware using KDL-46Z4100. The firmware update worked but it did not solve this problem. I tried emailing on wpix website about a month ago no response received.
> 
> 
> I have had this problem for 2 months beleive it or not after I posted the problem here magically without me doing anything all three chanels started showing like every other chanel. They must have done something because 11.2 and 11.4 are now spanish chanels. 11.3 is an sd chanel of 11.1. I posted this at 9:30am and programming could be different later but i never saw an sd version of 11.1 on 11.3 before.



11.4 are now spanish channels. NO 11.4 is ANTENNA TV in English. Only 11.2 is Spanish. Make sure you did not push your SAP button.


As I said this encoding problem seems to be on the CHANNELS end. I guess PIX is not the first to make a mistake and will not be the last.


But I also thought that SONY could of done something.


Anyway I am glad the problem seems to be fixed for you.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21035839
> 
> 
> hey kb21 did plug in the booster, are you getting stronger signal ? i have similar amplifier but is a motorola brand, is gets me stronger signals on my modem, i have 2 way splitter that i qam cable signals with. is works great. im looking to getting another one similar, but like you said they go for $40-50 kind of pricey. i seen other splitters for $20 is cheaper brand.



It will be a sometime till I can try it. Will let you know the result when I do.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ludovik14* /forum/post/21037024
> 
> 
> This is what I tried previously.
> 
> The TV is a costco model Sony KDL-46VL160 I found on these forums that I can update the firmware using KDL-46Z4100. The firmware update worked but it did not solve this problem. I tried emailing on wpix website about a month ago no response received.
> 
> 
> I have had this problem for 2 months beleive it or not after I posted the problem here magically without me doing anything all three chanels started showing like every other chanel. They must have done something because 11.2 and 11.4 are now spanish chanels. 11.3 is an sd chanel of 11.1. I posted this at 9:30am and programming could be different later but i never saw an sd version of 11.1 on 11.3 before.



Check if 11.5 and 11.6 give you This and Antenna. If they do, do a completely new scan. Sony TVs do not deal well when PSIP is lost even briefly.


- Trip


----------



## ludovik14




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21037528
> 
> 
> Check if 11.5 and 11.6 give you This and Antenna. If they do, do a completely new scan. Sony TVs do not deal well when PSIP is lost even briefly.
> 
> 
> - Trip



They are on those channels now. But scanning for new channels did not find them also I cannot manually show/hide them.

update

I previously used the add digital channel function. This time I used the auto program function. It put This and Antenna on 11.3 and 11.4. The second spanish chanel and sd of 11.1 disappeared.

Now I have to rehide the spanish chanels and all the chanels that don't come in clearly.


----------



## Trip in VA

Don't scan for just new channels, do a completely fresh scan of all channels. Wipe out what's in memory now. It's what you have to do with some Sony TVs to get them fixed when things like what you're observing happen.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21024057
> 
> 
> patience, patience my boy, what you seek you shall find



You are right, the other day I've found penny


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21037773
> 
> 
> Don't scan for just new channels, do a completely fresh scan of all channels. Wipe out what's in memory now. It's what you have to do with some Sony TVs to get them fixed when things like what you're observing happen.
> 
> 
> - Trip



trip, i'm having a trouble with sony lcd that doesnt show any channels after i did a rescan you think maybe there is problem with psip on the sony's care to be more little more enlighting.










keyboard, you previously said that you have 2 of those boosters, now you said you don't. you are sending conflicting messages get your facts strait


----------



## Trip in VA

If you're not getting anything in a scan, there's some kind of problem with the TV, be it a bad connection or problem with the set. I don't know that much about them.


I just know that Sony TVs don't handle PSIP changes well, such as if PSIP temporarily disappears.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21042134
> 
> 
> If you're not getting anything in a scan, there's some kind of problem with the TV, be it a bad connection or problem with the set. I don't know that much about them.
> 
> 
> I just know that Sony TVs don't handle PSIP changes well, such as if PSIP temporarily disappears.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Indeed, on my 20inch Analog Sony the PSIP on remote is strictly for decoration


----------



## Aero 1

5.1 still coming in weak.....if anyone cares....


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21054865
> 
> 
> 5.1 still coming in weak.....if anyone cares....



its gotta be on their end


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21054865
> 
> 
> 5.1 still coming in weak.....if anyone cares....



No problems with 5.1 here. Must not be something that is impacting all of us.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21057024
> 
> 
> No problems with 5.1 here. Must not be something that is impacting all of us.



i can still lock in and watch it fine. its just the signal strength drastically dropped. i can lock in and have fine viewing at 42% but there are the few instances where there is micro blocking.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21057057
> 
> 
> i can still lock in and watch it fine. its just the signal strength drastically dropped. i can lock in and have fine viewing at 42% but there are the few instances where there is micro blocking.



Not seeing anything like that here. You having an issue but what the cause is will be hard to find out unless all of us are having trouble with 5.1. We need comments from other forum members to see how widespread the issue is.


Usually I see reception changes at my location when the leaves are off the trees. I have one channel only that I have problems with and that is 2.1 CBS which my CM4228 antenna for some reason loses.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21057057
> 
> 
> i can still lock in and watch it fine. its just the signal strength drastically dropped. i can lock in and have fine viewing at 42% but there are the few instances where there is micro blocking.



all the stations have taken a hit for me, have you noticed that once in awhile the picture signal just goes out and returns seconds later? past few nights i seen tropo receiving wsah ch43 with indoor antenna tpo bad, they only show infomercials.


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21057130
> 
> 
> I have one channel only that I have problems with and that is 2.1 CBS which my CM4228 antenna for some reason loses.



What the heck is going on with 2.1 CBS this morning?

Just set up the TiVo to record the Jets game for this afternoon and did a signal strength test on 2.1 CBS- usual daytime reception is from 68-78% on the TiVo. This morning it started at 55% and proceeded to drop to 0% then back up to the mid 20's then slowly back up to the mid/high 50's again. Seems to be fairly stable around 55-58% which is a full 10-15 points below normal daytime readings.

Ch 4.1 is in the high 70's to peak of 81% which is a bit higher than it's normal of low 70's. 5.1 is steady at 96-98% which is normal for my setup.


But what is the deal with 2.1 CBS this morning?


(I'm 49 air miles east of ESB on LI using an Antennas Direct 91XG)


----------



## Trip in VA

Sounds like interference from WFSB. How's your WPXN this morning?


- Trip


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21057250
> 
> 
> Sounds like interference from WFSB. How's your WPXN this morning?
> 
> 
> - Trip



WPXN (31.1-3) seems steady @ 72%


----------



## Digital Rules




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21057236
> 
> 
> What the heck is going on with 2.1 CBS this morning?



Lot's of tropo interference today & yesterday along the east coast. Seeing some normally reliable stations going in & out here as well. One station only 4 miles away is even shaky at times.


I'm seeing stations almost 100 miles away coming in well from the back of a 91-XG.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm in complete agreement with Digital Rules. I'm on a DX mailing list and someone in New Jersey reported hearing a radio station from Charlotte NC. I couldn't receive anything north of Fairfax VA from here, but I did get WRET from Spartansburg SC for the first time.


Short version: Probably the atmosphere causing WFSB to interfere. Should be temporary.


- Trip


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/21057276
> 
> 
> Lot's of tropo today & yesterday along the east coast. Seeing normally reliable stations going in & out here as well. One station only 4 miles away is even shaky at times.



Wow.... hope it clears up by game time (4:15pm).

Guess I'll have the TiVo record from Cablevision on 702 on it's other tuner just in case 2.1 OTA is still unreliable.


I've had 2.1 CBS on for 30 min now- it's hovering around 78% to a peak of 81%... this is more normal for me.


It's crazy!










Thanks guys... was almost ready to head up onto the roof (again)....


Edit- 2.1 CBS is steady now at 81-83% and just peaked at 89%- highest I've ever seen it.


----------



## Digital Rules

Yes, the tropo is about the strongest I've seen all year. Seeing numerous stations from North Carolina even coming in from the side of the antenna. Seeing Greensboro NC (about 300 miles) with the antenna pointed in almost any direction. (Ouch)


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/21057345
> 
> 
> Yes, the tropo is about the strongest I've seen all year. Seeing numerous stations from North Carolina even coming in from the side of the antenna. Seeing Greensboro NC (about 300 miles) with the antenna pointed in almost any direction. (Ouch)



Yikes!

How the heck would you attempt to aim an antenna if you had to today under those conditions?


Just remembered- I have to go up on the roof today anyway- buddy at work gave me a Static dissipater ( http://www.tessco.com/products/displ...68&eventPage=1 ) for my mast and it seems like a nice morning to set it up. Thankfully I won't be messing with the antenna orientation...


----------



## ejb1980

I just happened to accidentally click on the NYC forum, and glad to see SOMEONE is receiving my locals (Greensboro) clearly today! haha. I am not. My usually strong Raleigh and Greensboro signals are unwatchable and the usually weaker statkions are perfect. I did a re-scan and got no fun tropo signals.


----------



## LenL

Perhaps it is troposphere or something else but lately 58.1 comes in great during the day and disappears on me at night. Zero signal down from the 80's during the day. Does tropo impact VHF more thasn UHF and at night in particular?


Or are the new owners of NJTV doing something at the transmitters?


----------



## SnellKrell

If anything has been done to the transmitters, it's not the "new owners,"

the state continues to control them.


----------



## rothe

I've had extensive problems with dropouts on NJTV for the past few days. This was normally one of my most reliable channels. Since everything else was coming in fine -- well, except for WLIW, which I usually have problems with during any weather or tropo event - I just wrote it off as tropo or transmitter-tweaking.


Bottom line: it's not just you.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've had extensive problems with dropouts on NJTV for the past few days. This was normally one of my most reliable channels. Since everything else was coming in fine -- well, except for WLIW, which I usually have problems with during any weather or tropo event - I just wrote it off as tropo or transmitter-tweaking.
> 
> 
> Bottom line: it's not just you.



Likely a problem on their end, not weather or your setup. Their signal reliability has gone way down since NJTV took over operations with less technical staff.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21067418
> 
> 
> Likely a problem on their end, not weather or your setup. Their signal reliability has gone way down since NJTV took over operations with less technical staff.



I respectfully disagree.


As much as I liked the content that NJN provided and as much as I feel NJTV is not yet up to speed, I can't say that I've observed any issues with their signal that didn't correspond to large weather events or well-publicized tropo events like we just discussed, above.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21067496
> 
> 
> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> 
> As much as I liked the content that NJN provided and as much as I feel NJTV is not yet up to speed, I can't say that I've observed any issues with their signal that didn't correspond to large weather events or well-publicized tropo events like we just discussed, above.



you still think the verdict still out on njtv, I think not, we been taken to the cleaners


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Rules* /forum/post/21057345
> 
> 
> Yes, the tropo is about the strongest I've seen all year. Seeing numerous stations from North Carolina even coming in from the side of the antenna. Seeing Greensboro NC (about 300 miles) with the antenna pointed in almost any direction. (Ouch)



I'm seeing a lot of weird stuff coming out of Baltimore (my antenna is currently oriented toward Philly) -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21068891 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21067099
> 
> 
> I've had extensive problems with dropouts on NJTV for the past few days. This was normally one of my most reliable channels. Since everything else was coming in fine -- well, except for WLIW, which I usually have problems with during any weather or tropo event - I just wrote it off as tropo or transmitter-tweaking.
> 
> 
> Bottom line: it's not just you.



I recorded the Clapton Crossroads guitar festival on 52-1 Sunday night and although my reception was a solid 96%, I saw minor pixelations throughout the program which almost appeared to be at somewhat regular intervals. Maybe it was tropo but that station is normally very solid for me and, as I say, it was registering a strong 96% at the time of the recording.


----------



## nycdigital09

tmax youre watachin baltimore stations, that must be strong tropo in your neck of woods, now that yanks/phils are not in playoffs anyone you like to win ws. my bet is st louis


----------



## T-Max

No tropo at the moment. I'm back to my usual Philly stations and glad for it.


According to Google maps, Baltimore is 160+ miles from me and nearly in a straight line so it's a pretty good estimate. Plus I'm apparently getting something out of Annapolis, which is even farther off. I may even be getting some stations farther yet.


But Baltimore is in a straight line from Philly, so it's natural that I'd get those stations when tropo is high.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No tropo at the moment. I'm back to my usual Philly stations and glad for it.
> 
> 
> According to Google maps, Baltimore is 160+ miles from me and nearly in a straight line so it's a pretty good estimate. Plus I'm apparently getting something out of Annapolis, which is even farther off. I may even be getting some stations farther yet.
> 
> 
> But Baltimore is in a straight line from Philly, so it's natural that I'd get those stations when tropo is high.



Every city in the world is an exact straight line to any other city in the world


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21072861
> 
> 
> No tropo at the moment. I'm back to my usual Philly stations and glad for it.
> 
> 
> According to Google maps, Baltimore is 160+ miles from me and nearly in a straight line so it's a pretty good estimate. Plus I'm apparently getting something out of Annapolis, which is even farther off. I may even be getting some stations farther yet.
> 
> 
> But Baltimore is in a straight line from Philly, so it's natural that I'd get those stations when tropo is high.



I use to get baltimore station even dc stations when there was strong tropo when analog was still around. i use to get the annapolis pbs station all throughout summertime. harrisburg pa, I once got a virginia beach tv station.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21073685
> 
> 
> Every city in the world is an exact straight line to any other city in the world



Not when you can't get there from here.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21074911
> 
> 
> Not when you can't get there from here.



huh ? whacha talkin bout willis


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21081238
> 
> 
> huh ? whacha talkin bout willis



It is secret code for the new CBS sub-station.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21081717
> 
> 
> It is secret code for the new CBS sub-station.



I hear is coming giftwrap for christmas


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21081811
> 
> 
> I hear is coming giftwrap for christmas



Yea? What year?


----------



## a72849

The NY stations changed the PSIP time back to standard time three weeks early again. They screw up every season. In 2011, Daylight Savings Time is from 2:00 a.m. (local time) on March 13 until 2:00 a.m. (local time) on November 6.

See http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/faqs/qdaylite.cfm


----------



## Smashbro29

Not sure if Brooklyn falls under New York, NY but I'm having some trouble.


My house has an antennae we can all hook into the wall, no problem however my TV is a LITTLE bit farther away from that wall so... I'm missing a lot of channels (2,4,5,9) and I was wondering if getting some kind of booster would help. I think it might because everyone else is getting every (or almost every) local channel and I think it might just be my overly long cable.


----------



## tahoejoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21088294
> 
> 
> Not sure if Brooklyn falls under New York, NY but I'm having some trouble.
> 
> 
> My house has an antennae we can all hook into the wall, no problem however my TV is a LITTLE bit farther away from that wall so... I'm missing a lot of channels (2,4,5,9) and I was wondering if getting some kind of booster would help. I think it might because everyone else is getting every (or almost every) local channel and I think it might just be my overly long cable.



The antenna you are connected to is probably an old VHF antenna because the channels you are missing are all UHF. You might want to try an indoor antenna for the UHF stations you are missing.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21082644
> 
> 
> Yea? What year?



hopefully 2021


----------



## Smashbro29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tahoejoe* /forum/post/21090051
> 
> 
> The antenna you are connected to is probably an old VHF antenna because the channels you are missing are all UHF. You might want to try an indoor antenna for the UHF stations you are missing.



But everyone else gets them and we're all hooked into the same antenna.


----------



## Slikkster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21090764
> 
> 
> But everyone else gets them and we're all hooked into the same antenna.



Did you re-scan for channels after connecting the antenna?


I would also try the indoor antenna just to see if you can pick up the UHF channels on that to rule out something going on with your TV, for starters (unless you have another TV to connect to this antenna).


You can keep relying on "but other people can get those channels" but that's not going to help you until you start experimenting to see where the problem is.


Re-scan for channels while connected to the rooftop antenna, for starters. No difference? Connect an indoor antenna or even those cheapo-circular UHF antennas that come with a lot of TV's and re-scan. You will at least pick up something with one of those assuming there's nothing wrong on the set-end.


----------



## zoetmb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21088294
> 
> 
> Not sure if Brooklyn falls under New York, NY but I'm having some trouble.
> 
> 
> My house has an antennae we can all hook into the wall, no problem however my TV is a LITTLE bit farther away from that wall so... I'm missing a lot of channels (2,4,5,9) and I was wondering if getting some kind of booster would help. I think it might because everyone else is getting every (or almost every) local channel and I think it might just be my overly long cable.



There's no such thing as 2, 4, 5 and 9 anymore. There's 2.1, 4.1, 5.1 and 9.1 if what you're referring to is WCBS, WNBC, FOX and WWOR. And those are virtual channels - the channels that display on your TV, not the actual channels that they're broadcasting on. There are also additional channels on 4.2, 5.2, etc.


Also, when you have your set scan, make sure it's set to scan OTA channels and not cable channels.


Unless your long cable has a break in it, it should make no difference.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21088294
> 
> 
> Not sure if Brooklyn falls under New York, NY but I'm having some trouble.
> 
> 
> My house has an antennae we can all hook into the wall, no problem however my TV is a LITTLE bit farther away from that wall so... I'm missing a lot of channels (2,4,5,9) and I was wondering if getting some kind of booster would help. I think it might because everyone else is getting every (or almost every) local channel and I think it might just be my overly long cable.



When is the last time that antenna was used? Is this a sudden problem? Just beause there is an antenna on the roof doesn't mean it has a wire connected to it and the connection is good. If you are in Brooklyn chances are you should be able to get decent OTA reception with either an indoor or outdoor antenna.


All of us on this forum have different OTA setups with differing reception issues. So one size does not fit all and you will get lots of advice and some of it will work for you and some won't...


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Smashbro29,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21088294
> 
> 
> Not sure if Brooklyn falls under New York, NY but I'm having some trouble.
> 
> 
> My house has an antennae we can all hook into the wall, no problem however my TV is a LITTLE bit farther away from that wall so... I'm missing a lot of channels (2,4,5,9) and I was wondering if getting some kind of booster would help. I think it might because everyone else is getting every (or almost every) local channel and I think it might just be my overly long cable.



Yes, Brooklyn and all NYC boroughs are included on this forum.


TV location is almost always irrelevant (unless it is in a basement and relies on rabbit ears). All of the channels you mentioned are on UHF, which is leading me to suspect the splitter your cable is running off of. You want to make sure it fully covers the UHF band. It should allow for signals at least up to 890 MHz.


You will need to tell us what kind of antenna you are using (indoor or outdoor), if there is a splitter involved and how many taps (outputs) are on the splitter and if all of them are being used, what kind of coaxial cable is running to each set (RG-59, RG-6, etc.) It is hard to visualize where your problems are if we don't have the specifics. Reception is very individualized, and one situation may not necessarily replicate another.


A booster _may_ help, but keep in mind that since it cannot differentiate between signal and noise, you may likely end up making the problem worse by amplifying errant noise. It is better to improve your reception without a booster, and consider using one later if issues persist.


Please return here with the above information so we may be able to help you.


----------



## Mr.H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a72849* /forum/post/21086894
> 
> 
> The NY stations changed the PSIP time back to standard time three weeks early again. They screw up every season. In 2011, Daylight Savings Time is from 2:00 a.m. (local time) on March 13 until 2:00 a.m. (local time) on November 6.
> 
> See http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/faqs/qdaylite.cfm



This is most likely a bug in your TV/STB firmware. Starting one month before a switch to, or from, DST the ATSC time signal includes a "hint" as to the upcoming time change. All stations should be including this in the STT (System Time Table) of their PSIP. This enables a PVR to properly schedule recordings around the switch to, or from, DST.


It appears the some TVs and STBs do not handle the "Daylight Saving Time Control" data properly. One example is the TViX M-6500, which is a royal PITB in this regard.


See Annex A of ATSC PSIP Standard A/65 http://www.atsc.org/cms/standards/a_65-2009.pdf 


Paul


----------



## LenL

I have been experiencing this problem for a week or more and confirmed it last night. IT impact all 3 of my antennas.


Almost exactly 6:35 PM my reception of 7.1 goes from an SNR of 23 to 0. I lose the picture. This is a sudden and abrupt change. Not gradual. This is on my TV that shows SNR and not signal strength and on one of my GH6 antennas. It impacts 2 of the 3 antennas. I completely lose VHF signal from those VHF channels I receive.


When I go to the CM4228 antenna where the reception coming from my PALDVR is measured in signal it drops from the mid 90s to the mid 60s. I stil get reception but it is with some pixilation.


So I check the other VHF channels and it the same story. I either completely lost them or the signal has gone way down. UHF is not impacted at all. If it was a tropo issue why would it be every day for the past 7 or so days and at the same time 6:35 PM? I don't stay up late to see when it comes back but it seems to be fine during the day.


Since I don't see any other complaints I suspect something localized to my house or area.


----------



## nycdigital09

len sounds like fm station interference get yourself an fm trap http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=10939219


----------



## ADTech

Sounds more like a device that is on a timer.


Anyone in your neighborhood growing pot in their basement? You might be getting interference from their grow lamps.


----------



## Falcon_77

I have a similar VHF problem, that is probably a device on a dusk to dawn timer. It started about 2 weeks ago after some new neighbors moved in. I am trying to verify if that is the source. If I find it soon, I will try to remember to relay it here, but it goes all the way from 7MHz to about 125MHz in my case, so is very broadband.


In the interim, I found this guide from New Zealand which is quite informative and most of it applies here:

http://www.rsm.govt.nz/cms/pdf-libra...tion-guide.pdf


----------



## OlegL

Any idea why I get absolutely no signal on any of the subchannels that belong to virtual channel 42? I know that its physical channel is channel 2, which means it's a low vhf channel. Neither my TV nor my PC's tv tuner card can find these channels. The PC and the TV are not even in the same room. They are both connected to indoor antennas. According to tvfool (] http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b5e864004dde ), I live less than 9 miles away from the WKOB-LD station. So, any idea why my TV and my PC can't find it?


----------



## Falcon_77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/21095371
> 
> 
> I have a similar VHF problem, that is probably a device on a dusk to dawn timer.



We found the noise last night. It is an electric fence, on a dusk to dawn timer, for a chicken coup. I certainly didn't expect that in suburbia with about 15' between homes. It was 2 homes over on the other side of the street. Apparently, the rain a couple weeks ago has caused part of it to start arcing over or a plant has grown into the fence.


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/21099412
> 
> 
> We found the noise last night. It is an electric fence, on a dusk to dawn timer, for a chicken coup. I certainly didn't expect that in suburbia with about 15' between homes. It was 2 homes over on the other side of the street. Apparently, the rain a couple weeks ago has caused part of it to start arcing over or a plant has grown into the fence.



Interesting... how do you fix that?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey OlegL,


Welcome to AVS Forum










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OlegL* /forum/post/21097904
> 
> 
> Any idea why I get absolutely no signal on any of the subchannels that belong to virtual channel 42? I know that its physical channel is channel 2, which means it's a low vhf channel. Neither my TV nor my PC's tv tuner card can find these channels.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OlegL* /forum/post/21097904
> 
> *They are both connected to indoor antennas.*





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OlegL* /forum/post/21097904
> 
> 
> So, any idea why my TV and my PC can't find it?



I think you've just answered your own question


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21094638
> 
> 
> I have been experiencing this problem for a week or more and confirmed it last night. IT impact all 3 of my antennas.
> 
> 
> Almost exactly 6:35 PM my reception of 7.1 goes from an SNR of 23 to 0. I lose the picture. This is a sudden and abrupt change. Not gradual. This is on my TV that shows SNR and not signal strength and on one of my GH6 antennas. It impacts 2 of the 3 antennas. I completely lose VHF signal from those VHF channels I receive.
> 
> 
> When I go to the CM4228 antenna where the reception coming from my PALDVR is measured in signal it drops from the mid 90s to the mid 60s. I stil get reception but it is with some pixilation.
> 
> 
> So I check the other VHF channels and it the same story. I either completely lost them or the signal has gone way down. UHF is not impacted at all. If it was a tropo issue why would it be every day for the past 7 or so days and at the same time 6:35 PM? I don't stay up late to see when it comes back but it seems to be fine during the day.
> 
> 
> Since I don't see any other complaints I suspect something localized to my house or area.



Ok tonight I was checking outside at the time the problem occured and it appears that my next door neighbors new outdoor patio lights came on at the same time I lost my VHF stations. I will verify this again Thursday night. If this is the cause then what are my options? Is it interfering with the signal at the antenna or is it something I can filter out? All 3 of my antennas are using CM 7777 preamps with FM traps. Would it be their transformer of the lights themselves? Help engineers? Is there something I can have them do to help me?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21102255
> 
> 
> Ok tonight I was checking outside at the time the problem occured and it appears that my next door neighbors new outdoor patio lights came on at the same time I lost my VHF stations. I will verify this again Thursday night. If this is the cause then what are my options? Is it interfering with the signal at the antenna or is it something I can filter out? All 3 of my antennas are using CM 7777 preamps with FM traps. Would it be their transformer of the lights themselves? Help engineers? Is there something I can have them do to help me?



You can always buy their house. LOL




What kind of lights are the using? CFL? Or Incandescent? Or the new LED light bulbs?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21103000
> 
> 
> You can always buy their house. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of lights are the using? CFL? Or Incandescent? Or the new LED light bulbs?



The light that they give off looks like LED lighting and a quick check of what HOME DEPOT sells it appears that the new lights being sold in stores are LED design. I can ask them and verify they are which I will do if I can confirm this is indeed the issue. I should be able to confirm this is the issue with 100% certainty tonight.


----------



## nycdigital09

len you can say youre lights are interfering with my tv reception turn them off or you turn into be worst neighbor theylve come across. just kidding i would let them know your situation that your lights are interfering with my tv reception most people are receptive to other person's troubles. worst case scenario ask them that you gladly pay for different type of lighting. good luck len


----------



## LenL

If I do confirm it is their patio lighting I would gladly pay for new ones. However if all they are making these days are led lights than I don't gain anything. Besides we haven't confirmed whether LED lights interfere with VHF reception have we? Perhaps it's the transformer they are using.


Anyway I will confirm the lights are the problem tonight when they go on at 6:35 and they go off before 11 PM. So I can check on the front and back end.


----------



## zoetmb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Falcon_77* /forum/post/21099412
> 
> 
> We found the noise last night. It is an electric fence, on a dusk to dawn timer, for a chicken coup. I certainly didn't expect that in suburbia with about 15' between homes. It was 2 homes over on the other side of the street. Apparently, the rain a couple weeks ago has caused part of it to start arcing over or a plant has grown into the fence.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21099465
> 
> 
> Interesting... how do you fix that?



Kill the chickens!


----------



## SnellKrell

Have chicken salad sandwiches!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoetmb* /forum/post/21104759
> 
> 
> Kill the chickens!



I read that chicken bones can make for a good antenna. At least in 3rd world countries.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21103989
> 
> 
> len you can say youre lights are interfering with my tv reception turn them off or you turn into be worst neighbor theylve come across. just kidding i would let them know your situation that your lights are interfering with my tv reception most people are receptive to other person's troubles. worst case scenario ask them that you gladly pay for different type of lighting. good luck len



If they are LEDs. Then if it was me I would not want to change. Because LEDs are cheaper on the electric bill.


----------



## LenL

OK....I was able to confirm that the sidewalk accent lighting they just put in is impacting my VHF reception from 6:35 to 10:35.


It appears to mostly impact my lowest antenna the most. While the other 2 are impacted I can still watch mostly watch 7.1.


So the next step would possibly be to see if they are LED, Flourecscent or incandescent lights. However does it matter what they are? if there isn't a solution on my end? Is there a filter I can install that would correct the issue?


----------



## AloEuro

The chicken saga was the best laugh I had in long time, thanks guys


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21107661
> 
> 
> OK....I was able to confirm that the sidewalk accent lighting they just put in is impacting my VHF reception from 6:35 to 10:35.
> 
> 
> It appears to mostly impact my lowest antenna the most. While the other 2 are impacted I can still watch mostly watch 7.1.
> 
> 
> So the next step would possibly be to see if they are LED, Flourecscent or incandescent lights. However does it matter what they are? if there isn't a solution on my end? Is there a filter I can install that would correct the issue?



If one of the other two antennas is also good for Hi-VHF, you can combine it with the lower antenna to produce a "null" toward the noise source. All you need to do is phase to the two feed lines as near to the antenna as possible and use a combiner with good isolation between the two ports that feed each antenna.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

You can also see if you can relocate your VHF antenna so that something (your house, perhaps) is between the antenna and the noisy light source.


----------



## LenL

Thanks for the 2 suggestions.


Yes moving the antenna that is only about 10 feet off the ground is an option as I can elevate if above the noise/interfence being caused by the lights. Right now it is in a very nice sweet spot for reception and I hate to move it but I can. It's also a matter of keeping it away from the other antennas and finding another sweet spot for reception. Plus I don't like hights and climbing so that is another consideration for me.


As to combining that may not be possible as all 3 antennas are on CM preamps and combining 2 of them close to the antenna is a technical issue.


I guess the other thing I could do is mount a separate small VHF antenna higher up and combine that VHF signal inside the house with the lower antenna's signal. But I might need a preamp for that antenna to get enough signal to the TV.


Anyway these are all options for me to consider unless someone has another idea.


----------



## RichNorthNJ

Northern NJ Passaic County:

1. I notice if I turn on my PC & / or just plug in my westel MODEM for verizon dsl, some digital channels go OUT on my tv







- the 42s (rtv & 24 hr drivein) & maybe antenna & this tv (the 11s). What the hell. lol Perfect! Just the stations I want to watch when I am on the PC - multitasking.

2. I use a magnavox digital to analog converter for my toshiba 32" tube analog tv (uses only 98 watts of power














- ck the back of your flat screen sets for watts used !!







(which by the way is perfect for tv prior to year 2000







- have a vcr hooked in between. IF I TURN ON MY VCR SOMETIMES BUT NOT ALL THE TIME THE 42'S LOSE ALL OR SOME OF THE SIGNAL(I SEE BLOCKS - SOME WORDS LOST)








. Other stations are not affected - in fact - their volume is amplified.









3. My dad says tv was more reliable in late 1948







. LMAO

4. the 24 hr drivein movie channel showed an old kirk douglas movie - but they did not bother to finish it!!!







- the last 1/2 (?) hour was missing lmao - i had to watch the rest online lmao . THE CLOSEST THING I SEEN TO THIS BEFORE WAS WHEN WPIX ONCE SHOWED THE LAST 1/2 HR OF STAR TREK FIRST.







But they apologized & said "you will never see trek like this again." lol

5. I have tried all sorts of antennas (including a motorized roof antenna) but I could NOT pick up the 42's (passaic county from NYC) UNLESS I used the Big Lots rabbit ears antanne with dial control set to 3/4) along with this modification: I had to ductape a 2nd set of antennas from another pair of ordinary rabbit ears, greatly increasing the total length of the rabbit ears







) - 1 pointed straight up, the other pointing toward garfield.







after months of adjustment - sometimes where the cables are & where the magnavox box are all may make a difference if u get the 42's or not .
















After all this monkey businness I am ready for the rubber room.









DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN FIND A GUIDE TO THE 24HR DRIVEIN CHANNEL? It's funny that they think most city folk like to watch westerns.

I hate all of em. lol Too many of those on & no crime dramas - like Mannix or the Fugitive or the Rookies. Or sci fi like the Invaders, UFO, etc.

The people in THIS area who decide what to put on the 42's must be driving the tv guide people at zap2it inSANE changing programming what 3 times this year alone. & now frequencies too














lmao.

6. My vcr is a good way to monitor the monkeybusiness. I taped antenna tv one day all afternoon. Sometimes there was loss of signal for a few hours, other times there was perfect signals. & no one touched my antenna.

7. Lastly, if this dont put me in the rubber room, nothing will. I notice SOMETIMES on SOME CHANNELS if I put my legs up on the top of the couch (which I do like to do sometime)

I will lose part of the signal & can not hear full sentences - only partial ones.
















WHAT I WOULD GIVE TO BRING BACK ANALOG. SHOOT ME NOW. LOL

Anyone have any explanations for/solutions to all this monkeybusiness?

YET STILL, THE MONKEYBUSINESS WAS ALL WORTH IT TO AT LEAST BE ABLE TO SEE THESE SHOWS JUST A MONTH OR 2 AGO (no more!!!):

Starsky, Police Story, Dream Car garage, Off beat cinema, COMEDY SHOP!! - it hurts to go on - best I forget them all.









Who the heck is watchin the 24 hr drivein movie channel? Not me.









All I watched was that Kirk Douglas movie - see above. lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/21115484
> 
> 
> The people in THIS area who decide what to put on the 42's must be driving the tv guide people at zap2it inSANE changing programming what 3 times this year alone. & now frequencies too lmao.




What Frequency is 42 on now? I thought it was channel 2


----------



## nycdigital09

hey len how you hanging there? maybe i was being to nice, maybe you should taking your little friend to neighbors pesky lights


----------



## Smashbro29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21091973
> 
> 
> Hey Smashbro29,
> 
> 
> Yes, Brooklyn and all NYC boroughs are included on this forum.
> 
> 
> TV location is almost always irrelevant (unless it is in a basement and relies on rabbit ears). All of the channels you mentioned are on UHF, which is leading me to suspect the splitter your cable is running off of. You want to make sure it fully covers the UHF band. It should allow for signals at least up to 890 MHz.
> 
> 
> You will need to tell us what kind of antenna you are using (indoor or outdoor), if there is a splitter involved and how many taps (outputs) are on the splitter and if all of them are being used, what kind of coaxial cable is running to each set (RG-59, RG-6, etc.) It is hard to visualize where your problems are if we don't have the specifics. Reception is very individualized, and one situation may not necessarily replicate another.
> 
> 
> A booster _may_ help, but keep in mind that since it cannot differentiate between signal and noise, you may likely end up making the problem worse by amplifying errant noise. It is better to improve your reception without a booster, and consider using one later if issues persist.
> 
> 
> Please return here with the above information so we may be able to help you.




Ok. So the antennae is outdoor. I'm not using any kind of splitter. I bought a cable from.... some store I don't really know what type it is. Should I rescan and omit cable channels?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21121381
> 
> 
> hey len how you hanging there? maybe i was being to nice, maybe you should taking your little friend to neighbors pesky lights



No resolution yet. I am managing for now as I can still get acceptable signal on my CM4228 which is 30' or so up on my chimney. Even though it is that high up those lights are somehow reducing VHF high on that antenna too.


The good thing is I rarely watch live TV anymore so as long as most of the shows I watch are repeated after the the patio lights go off or before they go on I can manage around that their being on to some extent with the other antennas.


Just seems strange that they have such a dramatic impact.


----------



## George Molnar

Is the interference from the lights definitely getting into your system from the antenna, or could it be entering into the downlead, an amplifier, a connector or splitter, or maybe via power lines??


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21123054
> 
> 
> Ok. So the antennae is outdoor. I'm not using any kind of splitter. I bought a cable from.... some store I don't really know what type it is. Should I rescan and omit cable channels?



You've confused me a little here. What cable channels are you talking about? I was under the impression you were using an antenna of some kind.


Original Question: _My house has an antennae we can all hook into the wall, no problem however my TV is a LITTLE bit farther away from that wall so... I'm missing a lot of channels (2,4,5,9) and I was wondering if getting some kind of booster would help. I think it might because everyone else is getting every (or almost every) local channel and I think it might just be my overly long cable._


----------



## Smashbro29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21127309
> 
> 
> You've confused me a little here. What cable channels are you talking about? I was under the impression you were using an antenna of some kind.
> 
> 
> Original Question: _My house has an antennae we can all hook into the wall, no problem however my TV is a LITTLE bit farther away from that wall so... I'm missing a lot of channels (2,4,5,9) and I was wondering if getting some kind of booster would help. I think it might because everyone else is getting every (or almost every) local channel and I think it might just be my overly long cable._




Clearly house lingo is screwing me here.


There's an antennae on the roof and there's those... thingys in the wall you use the TV cord and plug it in and viola! TV. Now it's JUST me in my house not getting these channels and we have gotten them before so I'm seriously wondering what the problem is.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21127680
> 
> 
> Clearly house lingo is screwing me here.
> 
> 
> There's an antennae on the roof and there's those... thingys in the wall you use the TV cord and plug it in and viola! TV. Now it's JUST me in my house not getting these channels and we have gotten them before so I'm seriously wondering what the problem is.



The technical term for that "thingy" is a Single F-type Coax Wall Plate










And the "TV Cord" is called a Coaxial Cable or Jumper.


Does your building have active cable or satellite TV service? If it does, or if it ever did, your first objective should be to determine what service is connected to that Single F-type Coax Wall Plate (to simplify things, we'll call it the "F Jack"). It could be the TV antenna or it could be the pay service. I suggest you look at the coax cable running off the antenna and follow it to see where it is going.


What channels, if any, can you presently receive at the location of this F Jack? The cable that comes out of it, what is it connected to (Directly into TV, cable TV set-top box, Digital-to-Analog set-top box, etc.)?


The other TVs in the house may be connected correctly or connected differently, which is why they get channels while another TV does not.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21123604
> 
> 
> Is the interference from the lights definitely getting into your system from the antenna, or could it be entering into the downlead, an amplifier, a connector or splitter, or maybe via power lines??



George,


I will try to answer your questions as best I can.


1. Our power lines are underground.


2. Problem is definitely the patio lights going on. They are located (the closest of the lights) about 30 feet from my chimney. The transformer which I can not see is probably inside the garage and would also be about 30 feet away.


3. I am using 3 CM7777 preamps mounted at the 3 antennas and I am using shielded coax. So could the problem be getting into the preamps or downleads? I really can't say although I thought the shielded coax would not be a problem. The downleads enter the house in the basement where they are in close proximity to flourescent basement lights which when turned on have never caused and issue with the TV reception.


4. At this point I can only suspect it is the actual antennas that are impacted. Not the downleads or preamp.


5. I am pretty sure the lights are either the LED or flourescent variety. I don't even know idf they ever made them in flourescent lighting but a quick check of the Home Depot website indicates they make them in LEDs now.


I think this is an important issue/concern for not only me but others who may have reception issues they could not figure out and it turns out it is either their patio lights or someone elses. LED lighting seems to be replacing incandescent and flourescent lighting in many indoor and outdoor applications and as it spreads our OTA reception may become in danger! I could be all wet on this....just a thought and concern.


----------



## 2VW

Find out if the neighbor would mind installing some snap on ferrite filters on the patio lighting wiring. They clip on over the wires. Look for ones using #43 material. They should be a couple bux apiece.


----------



## SnellKrell

And why don't you buy them for the neighbor!


----------



## Smashbro29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21127759
> 
> 
> The technical term for that "thingy" is a Single F-type Coax Wall Plate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the "TV Cord" is called a Coaxial Cable or Jumper.
> 
> 
> Does your building have active cable or satellite TV service? If it does, or if it ever did, your first objective should be to determine what service is connected to that Single F-type Coax Wall Plate (to simplify things, we'll call it the "F Jack"). It could be the TV antenna or it could be the pay service. I suggest you look at the coax cable running off the antenna and follow it to see where it is going.
> 
> 
> What channels, if any, can you presently receive at the location of this F Jack? The cable that comes out of it, what is it connected to (Directly into TV, cable TV set-top box, Digital-to-Analog set-top box, etc.)?
> 
> 
> The other TVs in the house may be connected correctly or connected differently, which is why they get channels while another TV does not.



Yes! We do have cablevision! Though only for one TV. The others(mine included) are to supposed to get you the basic 2,4,5 etc. my coax cable goes to the FJack which goes to the antennae on the roof right now I get 7-1 through 7-3 11-1 through 11-4, 13-1 through 13-4 some of the 20's 40's and 60's but I never watch any of them and it's being connected directly to my HDTV.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21130984
> 
> 
> Yes! We do have cablevision! Though only for one TV. The others(mine included) are to supposed to get you the basic 2,4,5 etc. my coax cable goes to the FJack which goes to the antennae on the roof right now I get 7-1 through 7-3 11-1 through 11-4, 13-1 through 13-4 some of the 20's 40's and 60's but I never watch any of them and it's being connected directly to my HDTV.



Thanks! That clears some things up










First thing I would try is an automatic re-scan on the TV, and do this preferably between sundown (around 7:30PM) and midnight (because ongoing maintenance work at ESB causes intermittent shut-down of signals in overnight hours). See if that doesn't add in more channels. Next, inspect the coax running from the F Jack to your TV, make sure all connections are tight and no obvious problems.


How many TVs are presently being served by the antenna? You want to make sure that every tap (output) on the splitter is being used. If there are any open taps, signal leakage could occur thus making it harder to decode.


For example: A four-way splitter has one input/four outputs. If only three of the outputs are used, de minimus signal leakage seeps from the unused tap. In this case, you would most likely replace the four-way with a three-way splitter.


Hopefully, these solutions will help you. It could become more involved, however, if the matching transformer at the antenna has weathered or the main coax off the antenna is having issues.


Also keep in mind that at this time of the year and around Spring, reception patterns may be altered as deciduous tree leaves and altering weather patterns impact RF signals in the TV bands.


Do let me know the results, and if you need any more assistance.


----------



## Smashbro29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21131480
> 
> 
> Thanks! That clears some things up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First thing I would try is an automatic re-scan on the TV, and do this preferably between sundown (around 7:30PM) and midnight (because ongoing maintenance work at ESB causes intermittent shut-down of signals in overnight hours). See if that doesn't add in more channels. Next, inspect the coax running from the F Jack to your TV, make sure all connections are tight and no obvious problems.
> 
> 
> How many TVs are presently being served by the antenna? You want to make sure that every tap (output) on the splitter is being used. If there are any open taps, signal leakage could occur thus making it harder to decode.
> 
> 
> For example: A four-way splitter has one input/four outputs. If only three of the outputs are used, de minimus signal leakage seeps from the unused tap. In this case, you would most likely replace the four-way with a three-way splitter.
> 
> 
> Hopefully, these solutions will help you. It could become more involved, however, if the matching transformer at the antenna has weathered or the main coax off the antenna is having issues.
> 
> 
> Also keep in mind that at this time of the year and around Spring, reception patterns may be altered as deciduous tree leaves and altering weather patterns impact RF signals in the TV bands.
> 
> 
> Do let me know the results, and if you need any more assistance.



There are no splitters here. I'm just running a perfect cable from the Fjack to my TV. That's IT. I tried rescanning. ZILCH.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21130984
> 
> 
> Yes! We do have cablevision! Though only for one TV. *The others*(mine included) are to supposed to get you the basic 2,4,5 etc. my coax cable goes to the FJack which goes to the antennae on the roof right now I get 7-1 through 7-3 11-1 through 11-4, 13-1 through 13-4 some of the 20's 40's and 60's but I never watch any of them and it's being connected directly to my HDTV.



How many TVs in all presently receive service off the antenna?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21131789
> 
> 
> There are no splitters here. I'm just running a perfect cable from the Fjack to my TV. That's IT. I tried rescanning. ZILCH.



Are you saying the antenna coax runs directly to this F Jack? Or, does the antenna coax go to a splitter which feed different F Jacks throughout the house? If there are other TVs that receive signal off the antenna, the signal has to be split somewhere.


I understand you are running one coax from the F Jack to the TV. But what is happening to that signal BEFORE it gets to the F Jack?


----------



## Smashbro29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How many TVs in all presently receive service off the antenna?
> 
> 3
> 
> 
> Are you saying the antenna coax runs directly to this F Jack? Or, does the antenna coax go to a splitter which feed different F Jacks throughout the house? If there are other TVs that receive signal off the antenna, the signal has to be split somewhere.
> 
> Then I guess its split. There's an fjack in several rooms not being used by anything.
> 
> 
> I understand you are running one coax from the F Jack to the TV. But what is happening to that signal BEFORE it gets to the F Jack?
> 
> 
> I honestly don't have a clue. How would I even check that?



Responded.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21134874
> 
> 
> Responded.



Okay. It is still a little hard to understand why the other TVs are able to decode the signal while one is not, but I now have a better understanding and can give you some suggestions.


If you have the owners manual for the TV, check the section that deals with channel programming, and make sure the TV is set to Antenna instead of Cable. If it isn't, make the change and do an automatic rescan or auto-program. If you had a power-outage, even a brief one, it could have changed this setting even if it once was set for Antenna channels.


Next, you should locate the splitter and examine to make sure all connections are correct and hand-tightened. Make sure all of the coaxial cables are in good condition and have no exposed shielding at the ends and are not frayed. See if there are any unused taps, if there are, you will need to correct this as follows:


All unused taps in the rooms and at the splitter need to be capped. You will need a few of these F male terminator connectors: F Male Terminator Connector 


They should be available at Radio Shack either in-store or at their website, or you can find them on the internet. They screw over the unused F Jacks and will prevent the signal leakage that may be impacting even the TVs that don't seem to have reception problems.


----------



## Smashbro29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21135747
> 
> 
> Okay. It is still a little hard to understand why the other TVs are able to decode the signal while one is not, but I now have a better understanding and can give you some suggestions.
> 
> 
> If you have the owners manual for the TV, check the section that deals with channel programming, and make sure the TV is set to Antenna instead of Cable. If it isn't, make the change and do an automatic rescan or auto-program.
> 
> 
> Next, you should locate the splitter and examine to make sure all connections are correct and hand-tightened. Make sure all of the coaxial cables are in good condition and have no exposed shielding at the ends and are not frayed. See if there are any unused taps, if there are, you will need to correct this as follows:
> 
> 
> Next, the unused taps in the rooms and at the splitter need to be capped. You will need a few of these F male terminator connectors: F Male Terminator Connector
> 
> 
> They should be available at Radio Shack either in-store or at their website, or you can find them on the internet. They screw over the unused F Jacks and will prevent the signal leakage that may be impacting even the TVs that don't seem to have reception problems.




Thanks I'll try all that and see if it works. Thanks.


----------



## J_ph

other than finding new channels or dropping them after changing antenna, direction etc...... does rescanning fine tune the settings for the individual channels.


For example, is channel 2 always on or off, or does rescanning fine tune the reception of the tv to the incoming signal for channel 2?


I hope I've made the question clear, if not I'll give it another try.


thanks


----------



## ProjectSHO89

There's no "fine tuning" going on. It's just a simple scan to detect and identify potential digital signals.


----------



## J_ph

thanks! I was hoping that there was some magic involved, but I'm guessing that the only magic is the leaves that are falling from the trees and helping out my reception.


----------



## AloEuro

...and Harry Potter riding on his broomstick nearby


----------



## J_ph

Currently I receive most of my channels from NYC, but I also receive from Philly. Since I'm in the Morris county area, does this mean that I'm, picking up the Philly stations from the back of the antenna?


I have a CM4228HD, is it common that this type of flat-bay design would be able to do this?


----------



## Smashbro29

I rescanned. 23 DTV channels. 0 everything else.


NOTHING changed. So it looks like I'm going along the side of the house later to find the splitter.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_ph* /forum/post/21138346
> 
> 
> Currently I receive most of my channels from NYC, but I also receive from Philly. Since I'm in the Morris county area, does this mean that I'm, picking up the Philly stations from the back of the antenna?
> 
> 
> I have a CM4228HD, is it common that this type of flat-bay design would be able to do this?



probably tropo enhancement, exception if you live on top a big hill; its a long way to philly from your location. list stations your pickin up?

4228 its a good antenna but design wise is has shortcomings, the original 4228a had better gain on uhf side, vhf is good. check this site it will tell more about the 4228hd antenna. http://antennahacks.com/AntennaComparison.htm


----------



## icemannyr

Anyone know what is coming to WNJU-DT 47.3.


Right now it's sd color bars with Telemundo name.


----------



## 2VW

TV-47 will be doing some testing using 47.3.

I heard some programming will be on at 2PM today for a few hours.


----------



## icemannyr

The new sub channel on 47.3 is soi.
http://soi.tv/


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21155947
> 
> 
> The new sub channel on 47.3 is soi.
> http://soi.tv/



soitv what is it ? latin version of mindtv //


----------



## SnellKrell

Soi is a new Miami advertising/marketing company dedicated to the Latino community.


----------



## nycdigital09

here in queens 5 miles away i do see a drop use to be pegged, now is only 70-80% I think that being lower on antenna mast hinders the signal somewhat. i noticed that cbs 2 signal is much stronger almost as good as abc 7.


----------



## Keith

BOUNCE TV is Coming to WWOR's (Ch9) SubChannel...


http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...T+In+NYC%2c+LA


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/21164944
> 
> 
> BOUNCE TV is Coming to WWOR's (Ch9) SubChannel...
> 
> 
> http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...T+In+NYC%2c+LA


*Bounce TV launched at the end of September.*


Of what year? We in November now When will they launch in NY?


----------



## keyboard21

No news on the new CBS sub-channel? It was supposed to be in 3rd quarter of this year. Late for sure


----------



## Keith




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21173774
> 
> *Bounce TV launched at the end of September.*
> 
> 
> Of what year? We in November now When will they launch in NY?



Huh? it launched Sept 2011, Its on WTNH Subch in New Haven CT


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*MUNDO HISPANO TV (MHTV) RETURNS TO NYC TV AIRWAVES*


Effective Saturday, November 5, 2011, Mundo Hispano TV (MHTV) has returned to the television broadcast airwaves in New York City.


This station now occupies the primary channel of WKOB-LD New York, Channel 2.1 (Virtual Channel 42.1). It replaces the locally programmed WKOB 42.3 24/7 Movie Network, which was launched on channel 42.3 on September 26, but was moved to the primary channel position of 42.1 approximately two weeks ago.


It was last broadcast over-the-air in the NYC area about a year ago over WMBC-TV Newton, Channel 18.6 (Virtual Channel 63.4).


Mundo Hispano TV (MHTV) is a 24/7 Spanish-language channel that serves US Hispanics. MHTV focuses on the lives of Hispanics, showcasing content that is entertaining, educational, and cultural, with content sourced from 35 countries. MHTV offers family-friendly programming that brings home the flavors of Latin America, with shows on tourism, music, news, art, politics, people, movies, culture, opinions, history, and more from all over Central and South America, as well as Mexico, Spain and Cuba.


The network founders are experienced media executives from El Salvador. They are experts at building ties to communities inside the US. The network is intended to be a unifying voice for US Hispanics from Belize, Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Costa Rica, and Panama. Management works closely with a variety of groups, including churches, service organizations, and local community groups, to listen to the needs and wishes of the communities and then reflect those desires in the programming. With seven hours a day of live programming, Mundo Hispano TV can integrate local news, issues, and entertainment with its shows, and product placement is always a revenue-generating option. MHTV content is intended to inform, educate, and entertain its audience, which relates to the style and material provided.


Mundo Hispano TV was scheduled to launch on WKOB-LD on November 1, 2011. The launch was delayed, however, with no explanation presently available. MHTV joins WKOB-LD whose other sub-channels include Daystar, HOT TV, and WizeBuys TV.


See other WKOB-LD related topics:

RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED


----------



## Trip in VA

So, wait, if Mundo Hispano is on 42-1, what's on 42-3?


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/21181384
> 
> 
> Huh? it launched Sept 2011, Its on WTNH Subch in New Haven CT



Ok So when will it be in New York. They just announced deal, but no NY or LA date? Did miss something?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21183036
> 
> 
> So, wait, if Mundo Hispano is on 42-1, what's on 42-3?
> 
> 
> - Trip



The present WKOB-LD New York lineup is as follows:


*RF Virtual PSIP Programming*2.1 42.1 "24-7" Mundo Hispano TV2.2 42.2 "DayStar" Daystar2.3 42.3 "HOT TV" Hot TV: History Of Television2.4 42.4 "WizeBuy" Wizebuys TV

For each stream: Aspect ratio settings are 4:3; Language settings are "Unknown"; and program guide information is "TBA" in three hour time blocks. Current time remains DST.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*EMERGENCY ALERT SYSTEM NATIONWIDE TEST TOMORROW:

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 2011 AT 2:00PM EST.*


Tomorrow at 2:00PM EST., every licensed broadcast radio and television station and all cable television systems within the United States comprising each of the fifty states, the federal district, the territories of Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and American Samoa will simultaneously relinquish local control of their operations to the federal government, specifically the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), for a duration of time lasting at least thirty (30) seconds but not to exceed three (3) minutes to conduct the first nationwide test of the Emergency Alert System (EAS). For those outside of the eastern standard time zone, please convert to your specific local time.


The nationwide EAS test will be conducted jointly by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) through its Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) National Weather Service (NWS), the three federal agencies that have EAS management responsibilities. FEMA is the arm of the DHS primarily responsible for developing national alert and warning functions. The FCC is an independent agency that grants licenses to or otherwise oversees EAS Participants. FCC rules regulate the transmission of EAS alerts. The NWS is a key player in the dissemination of local warnings via the EAS. The great majority of EAS alerts are NWS weather-related alerts.


On November 9, 2011 at 2:00PM EST., FEMA will transmit the EAS code for national level emergencies to Primary Entry Point (PEP) stations in the national level of the EAS. The PEP stations will then rebroadcast the alert to the general public in their broadcast vicinity, as well as to the next level of EAS Participants monitoring them. This should continue through all levels of the system, until the national alert has been distributed throughout the entire country.


Pursuant to the FCC's rules, all EAS Participants must report back to the FCC on the results of this test, including whether, and from whom, they received the alert message and whether they rebroadcast it. FEMA and the FCC will study these results to determine if there are problems with the system and, if so, how best to remedy them. We anticipate that a nationwide test will be conducted periodically to ensure that the EAS is, and remains, functional.


Although the Nationwide EAS Test may resemble the periodic, monthly EAS tests that most Americans are already familiar with, there will be some differences in what viewers will see and hear, which is one reason for conducting a nationwide EAS test. Although the activation will include an audio message indicating that this is a test, a visual message indicating that this is a test may not appear on every television channel, especially for cable subscribers. This is due to the use of a live national code - the same code that would be used in an actual emergency. FEMA and the FCC are conducting outreach to the public, especially the deaf and hard of hearing, in advance of the test. Outreach will include specific information tailored to the needs of the deaf and hard of hearing and will be readily available at online sites. In addition, FEMA and the FCC will continue to work with EAS Participants to explore possible solutions to address this limitation.


At the FCC's June 9, 2011 Agenda meeting, Public Safety and Homeland Security Bureau Chief Jamie Barnett, joined by representatives from FEMA and the National Weather Service, announced that the first nationwide test of the Emergency Alert System (EAS) would take place at 2:00 PM (Eastern Standard Time) on November 9, 2011. The purpose of the test is to assess the reliability and effectiveness of the EAS as a public alert mechanism. EAS Participants currently participate in state-level monthly tests and local-level weekly tests, but no top-down review of the entire system has ever been undertaken. The Commission, along with the Federal Emergency Management Agency, will use the results of this nationwide test to assess the reliability and effectiveness of the EAS as a public alert mechanism, and will work together with EAS stakeholders to make improvements to the system as appropriate.


The EAS test plays a key role in ensuring the nation is prepared for any type of hazard, and that citizens within the United States can receive critical and vital information should it ever be needed.

Many additional specific details can be found at the following sites:

FCC: Emergency Alert System Nationwide Test 
FEMA: Nationwide Test of the Emergency Alert System


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21103411
> 
> 
> The light that they give off looks like LED lighting and a quick check of what HOME DEPOT sells it appears that the new lights being sold in stores are LED design. I can ask them and verify they are which I will do if I can confirm this is indeed the issue. I should be able to confirm this is the issue with 100% certainty tonight.



I spoke with my neighbor and verified that they replaced their solar lights (which did not produce much light) with Malibu LED lights. What is interesting is they did not buy a transformer but used the one left by the previous owner. In checking the Malibu website I could not find anything that would indicate a problem doing this. Also when the previous owner used the transformer it was not a problem for me as I was using CableVision for TV service.


Anyway my neighbor let me put a ferrite coupling on the power to the LEDS to try to suppress the RF noise. So I will see if that makes any difference tonight.


Hopefully I don't damage their LED lights as they paid $35 a pop for each one and there are 5 I think.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21195275
> 
> 
> I spoke with my neighbor and verified that they replaced their solar lights (which did not produce much light) with Malibu LED lights. What is interesting is they did not buy a transformer but used the one left by the previous owner. In checking the Malibu website I could not find anything that would indicate a problem doing this. Also when the previous owner used the transformer it was not a problem for me as I was using CableVision for TV service.
> 
> 
> Anyway my neighbor let me put a ferrite coupling on the power to the LEDS to try to suppress the RF noise. So I will see if that makes any difference tonight.
> 
> 
> Hopefully I don't damage their LED lights as they paid $35 a pop for each one and there are 5 I think.



Is it an option to put in normal candescent lights? maybe you can pay the $10 electric bill? I bet these new LED lights are causing the problem


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21199816
> 
> 
> Is it an option to put in normal candescent lights? maybe you can pay the $10 electric bill? I bet these new LED lights are causing the problem



The ferrite choke I installed on the cable from the transfomer to the lights did nothing. So I am still open to ideas. However it is not an option for them to remove their 5 or 6 lights at $30 each and replace them. Plus it may not be the lights that are the problem. It maybe the transformer they are using.


I am considering getting them a new $35 transformer that puts out just 45 watts and is ample enough to power 5-6 walkway lights with led bulbs that use 1 watt each. The transformer they have is probably much more powerful. I don't know much about transformers but if it is old and is not matched properly to the LED wattage requirements maybe that is causing an RF noise issue? Just wondering out loud.


----------



## George Molnar

Have they actually turned off these lights for you to determine for sure whether or not your problem goes away??


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21200559
> 
> 
> The ferrite choke I installed on the cable from the transfomer to the lights did nothing. So I am still open to ideas..



yes there are always options, get basic cable and then cancel the next month and run the cable wire qam to the back of your tv.


----------



## dagger666

How come there isn't a good EPG for broadcast tv







and don't tell me there is becasuse if there was devices would be supporting it







. None of my devices do, Hitachi tv, samsung blure ray player, magnavox DVR.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/21201481
> 
> 
> How come there isn't a good EPG for broadcast tv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and don't tell me there is becasuse if there was devices would be supporting it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . None of my devices do, Hitachi tv, samsung blure ray player, magnavox DVR.



There is and devices are supporting it. My TiVo has a great EPG that can search by actor, genre, subject and what not and across Netflix and amazon. My $200 Visio tv has a TV guide App built in.


FYI, bluray players don't have EPG's.


----------



## NYC

I was watching Mundo Hispano TV on WKOB this morning. They were airing some classic cartoons, including Casper. At one point, I noticed a station ID on 42.1 that indicated "Mundo Hispano TV WMBC 63.4" -- how could they be so careless?!


I also noticed that HOT TV on 42.3 was frozen. I have seen their ads for sales reps. I am wondering what they are expecting with all those technical glitches, poor signal, and no other promotions?


Any idea what became of the 24/7 Movie Channel? I know they had a .5 subchannel at one time, but I don't see it now and am wondering if they just shelved that idea of classic movies?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21200794
> 
> 
> Have they actually turned off these lights for you to determine for sure whether or not your problem goes away??



I lose signal to all my VHF stations (7.1, 8.1, 11.1 and 13.1) at exactly the time the lights come on and I get them back exactly the time the lights go off.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21201270
> 
> 
> yes there are always options, get basic cable and then cancel the next month and run the cable wire qam to the back of your tv.



That is theft of service and I could get in legal and financial trouble. Not worth it. Besides the whole idea of OTA is to cut the cord with Cablevision.


I would much rather come up with a technical solution.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21206117
> 
> 
> I lose signal to all my VHF stations (7.1, 8.1, 11.1 and 13.1) at exactly the time the lights come on and I get them back exactly the time the lights go off.



They seemed nice to let you try a choke. I was just wondering if they also let you turn them off to confirm your VHF stations came back, just in case something else turning on at the same time is blocking your VHF reception.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21206117
> 
> 
> I lose signal to all my VHF stations (7.1, 8.1, 11.1 and 13.1) at exactly the time the lights come on and I get them back exactly the time the lights go off.



This is sounding more like it is a byproduct of the transformer for the lights or perhaps the electrical wiring. On many radio boards, people continuously complain about the new street and traffic lights causing catastrophic interference to AM signals, but I suspect it has less to do with the actual lights and more to do with their power sources. Some newer transformers may not be well insulated resulting in this interference. And, unfortunately, so many people are relying on their personal music collections or external devices like Pandora, they don't even notice this interference so they don't complain. No complaints = No change from the manufacturers.


How about those solar-powered walkway lights? Would that be an option for your neighbor? They don't use electricity and would save your neighbors money through cheaper electric bills.


I am a little concerned that they are going to start getting pissed every time they see you head their way


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey NYC,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21202841
> 
> 
> I was watching Mundo Hispano TV on WKOB this morning. They were airing some classic cartoons, including Casper. At one point, I noticed a station ID on 42.1 that indicated "Mundo Hispano TV WMBC 63.4" -- how could they be so careless?!
> 
> 
> I also noticed that HOT TV on 42.3 was frozen. I have seen their ads for sales reps. I am wondering what they are expecting with all those technical glitches, poor signal, and no other promotions?
> 
> 
> Any idea what became of the 24/7 Movie Channel? I know they had a .5 subchannel at one time, but I don't see it now and am wondering if they just shelved that idea of classic movies?



I didn't see that, but that was just sloppy on the part of Mundo Hispano TV. They are the ones feeding the signal to WKOB-LD and probably that ID tag was left on the program and they missed it when they were changing things over.


HOT TV is no longer frozen. When I checked late last night, all that was on 42.3 was EBU Color Bars with no audio







The other streams had normal programming.


WKOB-LD is in a very tough spot. I am very sympathetic to their situation, but really don't know what can be done about it. First, only people with an antenna can get the station or even know about it. Second, because of it's dial position on the VHF-Lo band, and most consumer-grade receivers only offering the auto-program scan option to save channels, a typical scan may not pick up the station. There are other issues involved, but I agree that selling the airtime would be tough. Potential buyers would ask, "where can I see the station?" I don't even know how to answer that question to a lay person without sounding overly technical or complicated.


I think Nave is doing a very good job with the station and I wish it had more exposure. The product is very good. Nave also speaks out for broadcasters while the big networks sit back in silence. More broadcasters should take the approach to their industry that Nave does.


The WKOB 42.3 24/7 Movie Network appears to have been shelved, at least for now. It consisted of the same public-domain movies you see occasionally on HOT TV (when it is not frozen







) and nearly a month ago, they were airing the 1951 film "A Christmas Carol" with Alastair Sim at 8PM. It was black & white and very clean.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21207252
> 
> 
> They seemed nice to let you try a choke. I was just wondering if they also let you turn them off to confirm your VHF stations came back, just in case something else turning on at the same time is blocking your VHF reception.



Yes they have been very nice and cooperative and willing to help me if only I could find a solution.


As I have stated previously I have verified it is their lighting by watching their lights go on and off and the impact it has on my VHF station. With the recent time change they adjusted the time their lights go on and off and it also was seen by my TV reception problem at exactly the same time.


So I am 100% sure it is their LED lighting.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21207470
> 
> 
> This is sounding more like it is a byproduct of the transformer for the lights or perhaps the electrical wiring. On many radio boards, people continuously complain about the new street and traffic lights causing catastrophic interference to AM signals, but I suspect it has less to do with the actual lights and more to do with their power sources. Some newer transformers may not be well insulated resulting in this interference. And, unfortunately, so many people are relying on their personal music collections or external devices like Pandora, they don't even notice this interference so they don't complain. No complaints = No change from the manufacturers.
> 
> 
> How about those solar-powered walkway lights? Would that be an option for your neighbor? They don't use electricity and would save your neighbors money through cheaper electric bills.
> 
> 
> I am a little concerned that they are going to start getting pissed every time they see you head their way



They just replaced their Solar lights because they gave off very little light. I have yet to see a solar light that actually gave off any useful light.


I will be careful not to abuse their being nice and trying to help me with the problem. I told them I would buy them a new transformer if that was the problem and they wanted to pay for it. However I don't even know if that is the issue.


I did email Malibu Lighting customer service with the issue and I am now waiting for them to respond.


While this may seem as an isolated issue only impacting me, if any of you search the internet you will see this is becoming a bigger issue as more and more lighting goes to LED technology.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21209543
> 
> 
> They just replaced their Solar lights because they gave off very little light. I have yet to see a solar light that actually gave off any useful light.
> 
> 
> I will be careful not to abuse their being nice and trying to help me with the problem. I told them I would buy them a new transformer if that was the problem and they wanted to pay for it. However I don't even know if that is the issue.
> 
> 
> I did email Malibu Lighting customer service with the issue and I am now waiting for them to respond.
> 
> 
> While this may seem as an isolated issue only impacting me, if any of you search the internet you will see this is becoming a bigger issue as more and more lighting goes to LED technology.



Sounds like you have awesome neighbors. I'm glad to hear that they are willing to help you with this










Please know that I am not unsympathetic to your situation or think it is isolated only to you. During the October snowstorm, I was without power nearly three days and nights. I used battery-operated flashlights for light and a battery-operated portable AM-FM radio. Though it doesn't have the best tuner, I used the opportunity to peruse the AM dial. It _really_ doesn't have a good tuner







, but I noticed something missing: A sharp buzz that afflicts stations at the upper-end of the AM dial.


Long story short, while listening to WQEW New York whose 1560AM transmitter is in Maspeth, Queens, power was restored once and for all. Immediately, the overpowering buzz returned to most of the weaker stations at the upper-end of the AM band. I had no TVs, computers, anything powered on or even plugged in that I suspected could generate the buzz. I even shut-off the only fluorescent light in the house I had suspected, and that did nothing. Does that eliminate everything in my house? No, but all the likely suspects are eliminated. I have no idea where it's coming from.


So I understand exactly what you are going through, and it would frustrate me as well. Thankfully, you have seemingly isolated the source of your interference and have a good opportunity to rectify it.


Please let us know what Malibu Lighting responds with. If they don't reply, you could try finding who works in their corporate office and shoot a direct e-mail to the most appropriate individual.


It also may not hurt to e-mail the fcc and report this issue. They will likely be no help at all, but it would alert them to the potential drawbacks of VHF reception on consumer-grade receivers and be another blow to their spectrum repacking crap.


I think you are on the right track and I hope you get satisfactory resolution sooner rather than later.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


You made a good point about the FCC and I am thinking that if I had thought this through better I would have mentioned to Malibu Lighting customer service that I would be contacting the FCC about the issue. Not that it would do any good but just maybe they might have given this more attention with that the threat of the FCC hearing about it.


Anyway I have not heard anything yet and will let the forum know if I do.


----------



## tjeremiah

Is it me or has ION Television quality dipped a lot? The picture now looks like a low quality Netflix stream. For example, in fast scenes you see big square boxes appear. Big "pixelated" boxes that streak the screen for a second. And at other times, the picture is really sharp and washed out.


I get about an average of 70% signal strength when I tune into ION, channel 31.1 (their repeater on 12.1 doesnt work for me).


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey tjeremiah,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* /forum/post/21210937
> 
> 
> Is it me or has ION Television quality dipped a lot? The picture now looks like a low quality Netflix stream. For example, in fast scenes you see big square boxes appear. Big "pixelated" boxes that streak the screen for a second. And at other times, the picture is really sharp and washed out.
> 
> 
> I get about an average of 70% signal strength when I tune into ION, channel 31.1 (their repeater on 12.1 doesnt work for me).



That artifact is called macroblocking. It is the consequence of overly-compressed digital video. Though slightly less perceivable, it also can muddy the audio.


WPXN-TV New York has been running an additional service(s) over their channel 31 transmitter for over a month at least. Another AVS user confirmed there are multiple h.264 streams and a bunch of "AirTV" PIDs. The user went on to speculate these streams are encrypted with Nagravision.


ION Media had announced in 2009 they would be deploying Mobile DTV on their broadcast stations and would start with their New York and Washington, DC. stations. So this could be part of that, or it could be testing of a more efficient means of transmission. When asked, ION engineers have refused to disclose any details.


Nonetheless, this ancillary service is taking bitrate away from the primary HD and two secondary SD streams.


If you can lock into the station, even at 70%, then signal level would not be the cause of the macroblocking.


----------



## rothe

LenL - if I felt ambitious, I would offer to come up there with my spectrum analyzer and a short "rubber ducky" antenna. We could probably walk past the lighting and transformers and see the RF spike as we got near a particular component.


But it just occurred to me that you might be able to localize the source just by walking nearby with a common portable FM radio. I would tune it to a station-free portion of the dial where you're only picking up white noise. I expect (hope?) that you'll hear interference as you get near the offending RF noise source.


Try it. Let us know.


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21211321
> 
> 
> Hey tjeremiah,
> 
> 
> That artifact is called macroblocking. It is the consequence of overly-compressed digital video. Though slightly less perceivable, it also can muddy the audio.
> 
> 
> WPXN-TV New York has been running an additional service(s) over their channel 31 transmitter for over a month at least. Another AVS user confirmed there are multiple h.264 streams and a bunch of "AirTV" PIDs. The user went on to speculate these streams are encrypted with Nagravision.
> 
> 
> ION Media had announced in 2009 they would be deploying Mobile DTV on their broadcast stations and would start with their New York and Washington, DC. stations. So this could be part of that, or it could be testing of a more efficient means of transmission. When asked, ION engineers have refused to disclose any details.
> 
> 
> Nonetheless, this ancillary service is taking bitrate away from the primary HD and two secondary SD streams.
> 
> 
> If you can lock into the station, even at 70%, then signal level would not be the cause of the macroblocking.



oh ok, thanks for all the info


----------



## SnellKrell

WPXN is currently transmitting two M/H signals - Ion on 31.1 and Qubo on 31.2.


Also, as of now, the station's Channel 12 transmitter is not operating.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21211321
> 
> 
> WPXN-TV New York has been running an additional service(s) over their channel 31 transmitter for over a month at least. Another AVS user confirmed there are multiple h.264 streams and a bunch of "AirTV" PIDs. The user went on to speculate these streams are encrypted with Nagravision.



Speculated? I've got proof: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../51969-0_0.htm 


Different ION station, same data.



> Quote:
> ION Media had announced in 2009 they would be deploying Mobile DTV on their broadcast stations and would start with their New York and Washington, DC. stations. So this could be part of that, or it could be testing of a more efficient means of transmission. When asked, ION engineers have refused to disclose any details.



I don't know much, but I do know that it's unrelated to Mobile DTV.


- Trip


----------



## Smashbro29

I pretty much got confirmation that the only reason I'm missing channels is because some wiring in the wall is screwy, alternative options?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey smashbro,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smashbro29* /forum/post/21213205
> 
> 
> I pretty much got confirmation that the only reason I'm missing channels is because some wiring in the wall is screwy, alternative options?



This is why I was asking all those questions. There would be no way myself or anyone else could know that without you reporting it. I'm glad you found out where the problem is.


There are only two options for you at this point if you want to watch OTA TV.


#1: Use an indoor VHF/UHF Antenna at that location

#2: Correct the wiring problem.


I would suggest #2 because doing so will not only correct the problem at the one jack, but it will likely improve reception on all of the other TVs.


If correcting the wiring problem is not an option for some reason, you should get some of those terminators I was telling you about, disconnect the cable from the splitter leading to that jack, and cap off the open terminal on the splitter. Also cap any unused terminals while you are at it.


Let us know what you decide and how it goes. Feel free to ask any more questions if you have them. Good luck, smashbro.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21212605
> 
> 
> Speculated? I've got proof: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../51969-0_0.htm
> 
> 
> Different ION station, same data.
> 
> 
> I don't know much, but I do know that it's unrelated to Mobile DTV.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yes, but when I said "speculated", I was referring to a post from raj2001 in June 2010. He said:


> Quote:
> Something is happening with WPXN.
> 
> 
> I see a bunch of h.264 streams and a bunch of "AirTV" PIDs. All encrypted however with Nagravision I think.
> 
> 
> Is that the mobile DTV?


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=11910 

He seemed to be speculating about Mobile DTV and the encryption of the AirTV streams.


Update: I did see those AirTV30, etc. PSIPs on my DTV converter last week, but tonight they are not appearing. I cannot confirm it is because they are not there, only that I am not seeing them at the moment.


I don't know what it is...


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21211420
> 
> 
> LenL - if I felt ambitious, I would offer to come up there with my spectrum analyzer and a short "rubber ducky" antenna. We could probably walk past the lighting and transformers and see the RF spike as we got near a particular component.
> 
> 
> But it just occurred to me that you might be able to localize the source just by walking nearby with a common portable FM radio. I would tune it to a station-free portion of the dial where you're only picking up white noise. I expect (hope?) that you'll hear interference as you get near the offending RF noise source.
> 
> 
> Try it. Let us know.



Thanks for the suggestion about using the FM radio! I will try that weather permitting soon!


If that fails could you come up to my place with your spectrum analyzer and a large suasage and pepper pizza from Freddies in Long Branch? I'll supply the beer and a nice salad and I will give you gas and toll money!


----------



## rothe

I'm not so sure that I'd want to start spending my weekends running all over the tri-state area with a spectrum analyzer, just for pizza and beer. I'm making pretty good money at my day job, and those rare hours of "spare time" are pretty valuable to me.


For your sake, try the FM radio first.


----------



## keyboard21

Any news on the new CBS sub-station and the NEW 9.1 sub channel?


----------



## lincoln84

I have an indoor camera that I purchased from Best Buy. Its not great, but it picks up ABC pretty easily. I generally have to do some adjusting to get CBS, but no matter what, I can not get Fox or NBC. I don't have any boosters or amplifiers; just the antenna on the 6th floor of a building in Union Square, NYC.


Any help on how to pick up NBC or Fox would be greatly appreciated.



The antenna is a RCA - UHF/VHF/FM Indoor Antenna. I can't post the link, but here are the specs:


Features Indoor antenna for UHF/VHF/FM; nickel-plated brass 39" retractable dipoles; tilting UHF loop; receives HDTV signal

TV Antenna Features Directional|Indoor|Non-Amplified|Urban|Urban/Suburban

UPC 079000322467


----------



## rothe

Lincoln84: that "indoor camera" will be very useful to you. If you point it out a window, you'll be able to take a very nice picture of the Empire State Building. Sorry. Had to.










Welcome to the forum. There's probably not going to be a short, easy answer for you. You're dealing with the same issues that everyone else here has dealt with at one point or another. It'll take some self-education, but like many of us, you might get a kick out of the challenge. If you're not so inclined, you might as well pony up and pay the cable man.


If you do want to take on a troubleshooting/physics project, I have a bunch of useful web sites for you in the link in my signature. I found that "An HDTV Primer" and "About TV and FM Antennas" to be particularly useful.


I suspect that you're going to benefit from a more directional antenna than what you're using, in order to reduce multipath. One of the silver sensor variants (Terk HDTVi, among others) might work well for you. Also, try some different mounting locations away from walls and metallic objects, and not just reorienting the VHF dipoles and UHF loop. Just to prove the point, try even putting a wooden chair or ladder right in the middle of the room, with the antenna on it, and try different heights and moving the antenna fore/aft relative to the ESB, left/right by a few inches at a time.


Beyond that advice, dig into the online literature. Good luck.


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21217837
> 
> 
> Any news on the new CBS sub-station and the NEW 9.1 sub channel?



im just going to assume CBS is not going to go along with their original plan and Bounce TV is said to be coming soon on 9.2.


----------



## SnellKrell

This may help you concerning WCBS's plans.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvspy/wcb...-in-nyc_b25668


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21222311
> 
> 
> This may help you concerning WCBS's plans.
> 
> http://www.mediabistro.com/tvspy/wcb...-in-nyc_b25668



Thanks
*

"CBS owned-and-operated station in New York City, has announced plans to launch a digital subchannel before the end of the year"*


Hard to believe them when they said 3rd quarter of this year


----------



## nycdigital09

len, i feel for you. how bout just having one antenna on roof instead of 3, this way there is less of a chance of interference, you don't know need 3 antennas to capture all the stations do you? what about indoor antenna or attic mount? presently i have a uhf yagi antenna indoors aimed at a window i can still get connecticut around 50 miles from me, it surprise me. i see that your a hilly area, from the contour maps i see that your elevation is around 400 feet, (i wish i was up that high) maybe you need a more directional antenna, don't lose hope. ota is a challenge, but you will find a way.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21223511
> 
> 
> len, i feel for you. how bout just having one antenna on roof instead of 3, this way there is less of a chance of interference, you don't know need 3 antennas to capture all the stations do you? what about indoor antenna or attic mount? presently i have a uhf yagi antenna indoors aimed at a window i can still get connecticut around 50 miles from me, it surprise me. i see that your a hilly area, from the contour maps i see that your elevation is around 400 feet, (i wish i was up that high) maybe you need a more directional antenna, don't lose hope. ota is a challenge, but you will find a way.



Here's my story. Bought a CM4228 antenna and CM 7777 preamp and had it professionally installed on the chimney enclosure high up. Works great but at certain times of the year lost CBS 2.1. So I decided to fool around building a second antenna. After several test builds I went with the grey-hoverman design and installed it on the chimney enclosure lower down (I don't deal with heights very well) and found out that antenna never lost CBS 2.1 when the CM4228 did. For a fun project and since I still had some leftover material I built a second grey-hoverman and mounted that even lower, and that antenna performs better on some stations (NBC 4.1 and CBS 2.1) than the other antennas. Since I have 3 TVS and 2 PAL DVRS I spread the signal around so that I can get good recordings and watch TV wherever I want with reasonably good signal. All was good until the LED lighting issue showed up. As to the antenna's interacting or interfering with each other I was careful to take readings before and after the antennas were installed looking for any impact they had on each other and I never found any impact. They seem to be far enough from each other to not have an impact. Forgot to mention all of the antennas have CM7777 preamps.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21223571
> 
> 
> They seem to be far enough from each other to not have an impact. Forgot to mention all of the antennas have CM7777 preamps.



Len, i meant interfering with led lights not from each antenna, if you use just 1 antenna maybe you can minimize the effects of led lights, have you ever tried indoor antenna from your location? ideal would be for you to move your outdoor antennas away from effect of led lights. say back of the house or attic, is the led lights in your line of sight to esb ?

try googling your intefering problem i read articles years back when analog tv signal was around there were ways to get around this same problem your having. bon giorno


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21223607
> 
> 
> Len, i meant interfering with led lights not from each antenna, if you use just 1 antenna maybe you can minimize the effects of led lights, have you ever tried indoor antenna from your location? ideal would be for you to move your outdoor antennas away from effect of led lights. say back of the house or attic, is the led lights in your line of sight to esb ?
> 
> try googling your intefering problem i read articles years back when analog tv signal was around there were ways to get around this same problem your having. bon giorno



Impact all 3 antennas with the highest antenna (CM4228) impacted the least. The lights are in almost the direct path of the antenna aim to the ESB. No.... I have no other options for mounting antennas outside. Thanks for asking anyway.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> "CBS owned-and-operated station in New York City, has announced plans to launch a digital subchannel before the end of the year"
> 
> 
> Hard to believe them when they said 3rd quarter of this year



I can't wait for this channel to launch!...so that the complaints of how the channel sucks can begin


----------



## Rieper

I cant get WPIX channel 11.1 in manhattan with either my HDTV antennas....is the signal from PIX really that weak?


----------



## Ken H

I'm not sure where some people making comments in this topic get their ideas from.


Here is a recent news item from The New York Post.com:



> Quote:
> WCBS tries to bridge news and information-gathering power of local channels and sports media
> 
> 
> BY RICHARD HUFF
> 
> DAILY NEWS TV EDITOR
> 
> Tuesday, October 18, 2011
> 
> 
> WCBS/CH. 2 is working on final details for a digital channel to launch before the year's end that will rival WNBC/Ch. 4's Nonstop and the local cable news channels.
> 
> 
> CBS New York Plus will combine the news- and information-gathering power of CBS' locally owned operations such as Ch. 2, NewsRadio 880 AM, 1010 WINS and sports radio WFAN 660 AM.
> 
> 
> CBS TV Stations president Peter Dunn, also general manager of Ch. 2, says the new channel will be programmed in a "wheel" format with hourly updates.
> 
> 
> "We have all of this content," says Dunn. "It really is a reflection of our CBS local media."
> 
> 
> Word of the new channel first surfaced over the summer in Broadcasting & Cable magazine. The concept was pitched as a way to leverage the multimedia reach of CBS properties and give advertisers a way to buy all of them. Similar channels are to be rolled out eventually in other markets where CBS owns stations.
> 
> 
> "This helps us to compete in a new business area," Dunn says.
> 
> 
> It gives viewers yet another option locally for news and information. It also can provide another outlet for Ch. 2 during times of big breaking news.
> 
> 
> Before that happens, though, Ch. 2 will unveil a new studio Thursday at noon.
> 
> 
> The facility features banks of video monitors and multiple spots for anchors and correspondents to deliver news.
> 
> 
> "We felt it was time for a new set, because of all the various changes in technology as well as [the need for] a fresh look. The old set was installed 10 years ago and it was time," Dunn says.
> 
> 
> Talk about the new set began in January; design plans were approved in July.
> 
> 
> "The lighting actually makes me look like I'm back in my 40s," weathercaster John Elliott joked on yesterday's early newscast. Both he and Rob Morrison raved about the high-tech facility.
> 
> 
> During the past few weeks, newscasts have emanated from a small room in Ch. 2's W. 57th St. studios.
> 
> 
> Ch. 2's studio is the second to debut in recent weeks. WABC/ Ch. 7's moved into a window-front studio on W. 66th St. three weeks ago. (Ch. 2, at one point, delivered some reports from a window-front facility in the GM building that was home to "The Early Show," before moving back to W. 57th.)
> 
> 
> WPIX/Ch. 11 also is expected to reveal a new studio, trimmed with pastel greens and blues, on Oct. 28. And Ch. 4 has a new studio in the works, too.
> 
> 
> Dunn said the new set isn't being launched just to get ratings.
> 
> 
> "Our viewers expect more from the stations in this market," he says. It's still up to anchors, reporters, video and graphics staff, he adds, to work together and keep people watching night after night.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rieper* /forum/post/21226445
> 
> 
> I cant get WPIX channel 11.1 in manhattan with either my HDTV antennas....is the signal from PIX really that weak?



pix is one of the strongest signals put out by ota channel. i bet you;re using one of the panel type antennas. you should be using a rabbitear antenna type with the extended dipoles. the dipoles should be no more than to 15-17 inches on each side and have it in T mode not strait up and down. what happens with reception in manhattan is you're in a heavy multipath combat zone. if you got a amplifier with your antenna shut it off or you will have signal overload and all your channels will come and go.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21212605
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know much, but I do know that it's unrelated to Mobile DTV.
> 
> 
> - Trip



In relation to M-DTV....


To comply with Mobile Content Venture membership rules, a number of local stations broadcasting M-DTV are adding Nagra encryption.


Excerpted from TV Technology, by Doug Lung



> Quote:
> Early mobile DTV adopters, however, should be aware that, according to the MCV press release, “In order to receive the [MCV] mobile video service, consumers will need a device capable of receiving a specific type of mobile video broadcast, encrypted with conditional access.” While the service will be free, viewers will need to register and receive a key to decrypt the signal. Since the conditional access will be software-based using the ATSC A/153 standard, laptop or Netbook devices may be able to be upgraded to receive the broadcasts. However, it’s likely that non-connected devices like the LG DVD player with ATSC MH capability, the in-car receivers, and the recently announced MyGoTV portable will not be able to decode the encrypted signals. MCV is working with manufacturers to make sure devices will be available to receive the encrypted mobile broadcasts.


 http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/109842 



> Quote:
> Mobile Content Venture (MCV) is a joint-venture comprising 12 major broadcast groups, including Belo Corp., Cox Media Group, E.W. Scripps Co., Gannett Broadcasting, Hearst Television Inc., Media General Inc., Meredith Corp., Post-Newsweek Stations Inc. and Raycom Media, all of which are part of the standalone entity known as Pearl Mobile DTV, LLC, as well as Fox, *ION Television*, and NBC.


 http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/112162 


Don't ask me how I know they are using Nagra, but I know.


----------



## LenL

Ran the test today and verified that the LED lights are emitting the noise as seen by interference on my FM radio when the lights were on. The noise disappears when the lights are off.


I'm still waiting for Malibu Lighting to respond to my note on the issue. Hell might freeze over before I hear from them but I will keep after them and include the FCC in the discussion.


----------



## SnellKrell

Why not call Milibu instead of waiting for a response to your note?


Here's the Customer Service contact, possibly there's a technician available with whom you could speak.


Phone

(888) 295-7348


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21236820
> 
> 
> Ran the test today and verified that the LED lights are emitting the noise as seen by interference on my FM radio when the lights were on. The noise disappears when the lights are off.
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for Malibu Lighting to respond to my note on the issue. Hell might freeze over before I hear from them but I will keep after them and include the FCC in the discussion.



Did you use a portable FM radio and walk nearby these lights? If so, did you determine the interference to be higher at any particular spot or was it uniform? Essentially, by using the radio like a Geiger Counter, you could potentially isolate the exact trouble spot.


SnellKrell is absolutely correct. Some companies are not very privy to e-mail and a traditional phone call is the best way to communicate. I would definitely call them Monday and if you don't get a satisfactory answer, ask to speak to a manager.


----------



## George Molnar

How about contacting the "Consumer Reporter" at local newsroom of one of the TV Stations these LED lights are causing your reception blackout? Maybe a high profile news story could shame someone into action to resolve the willful interference.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21236865
> 
> 
> Hey Len,
> 
> 
> Did you use a portable FM radio and walk nearby these lights? If so, did you determine the interference to be higher at any particular spot or was it uniform? Essentially, by using the radio like a Geiger Counter, you could potentially isolate the exact trouble spot.



I'm with Giacomo on this. If the problem can be isolated to just one fixture, then that fixture is probably faulty and should be replaced.


----------



## Ken H

Unnecessary comments deleted.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21236838
> 
> 
> Why not call Milibu instead of waiting for a response to your note?
> 
> 
> Here's the Customer Service contact, possibly there's a technician available with whom you could speak.
> 
> 
> Phone
> 
> (888) 295-7348



Thanks! I just thought documenting the problem was the first step. Yes a phone call would be another approach and I will do that but that does not guarantee being able to talk to someone and getting a response that is helpful.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21236865
> 
> 
> Hey Len,
> 
> 
> Did you use a portable FM radio and walk nearby these lights? If so, did you determine the interference to be higher at any particular spot or was it uniform? Essentially, by using the radio like a Geiger Counter, you could potentially isolate the exact trouble spot.
> 
> 
> SnellKrell is absolutely correct. Some companies are not very privy to e-mail and a traditional phone call is the best way to communicate. I would definitely call them Monday and if you don't get a satisfactory answer, ask to speak to a manager.



Yes Giacomo. I used a portable FM radio and took it to the transformer and each of the lights. There was not RF noise at the transformer or anywhere in between the transformer and the lights. As soon as I go to the first light I found the RF noise. I went to each light and there was noise coming from each light fixture. So it is not isolated to one fixture. It seemed to be uniform. That is I could not hear more noise from one fixture or another. Perhaps a meter would do a better job but the FM radio was a good idea. By the way I tried the FM radio in my house with a small nite lite I had that was LED lighting and there was no noise. It was quite obvious when I use it on these LED lights outside that they were giving off RF noise.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21237312
> 
> 
> How about contacting the "Consumer Reporter" at local newsroom of one of the TV Stations these LED lights are causing your reception blackout? Maybe a high profile news story could shame someone into action to resolve the willful interference.



I'm not one to go to the media and possibly drag my good neighbors into the spotlight too. Besides with all the other really important social issues going on this hardly seems newsworthy. If there were many more of us OTA folks having this problem I could see getting media attention. However from using this forum and the help of people using it, I may be the only OTA person having LED light issues. At least so far. This may change as time goes on. A lot of people are now putting up Xmas lights on the outside of their houses. I suspect these are going LED and probably made cheaply in China and elsewhere. Stay tuned for possible OTA RF noise issues escalating as people buy new outdoor Xmas lighting.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21239090
> 
> 
> Perhaps a meter would do a better job but the FM radio was a good idea.



What the meter would probably help you with is determining a particular frequency for the RF noise. I usually see RF noise affecting VHF frequencies; not so much for the UHF frequencies that I recall you having a problem with.


Armed with a knowledge of the offending frequencies, you may be able to apply filters or High-Low Splitter-Joiners (HLSJ) in order to keep those frequencies from getting to your tuners or (pre-)amplifiers. I used Pico-Macom HLSJs on my antennas, before their pre-amps, as an FM-trap to attenuate a local FM radio station before it could overload my pre-amps and tuners.


But getting a meter into your hands (or getting me/Trip/someone who knows how to use one of these meters) will be more expensive than just buying a HLSJ and trying it.


----------



## LenL

So far good news! I did get an email response from Malibu Lighting today. It appears they are aware of the issue with their LED lights giving off RF noise. It goes as follows (the typo is from their message):


"Ye sir we are aware of the issue and have low noise replacements available. Please reply back with a copy of the receipt, model numbers, and quantities needed."


So next I will see if my neighbor has the receipt. Hopefully they do and I can proceed to see if Malibu will actually send replacements and if the replacements are better at suppressing RF noise. My saga continues.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21239830
> 
> 
> What the meter would probably help you with is determining a particular frequency for the RF noise. I usually see RF noise affecting VHF frequencies; not so much for the UHF frequencies that I recall you having a problem with.
> 
> 
> Armed with a knowledge of the offending frequencies, you may be able to apply filters or High-Low Splitter-Joiners (HLSJ) in order to keep those frequencies from getting to your tuners or (pre-)amplifiers. I used Pico-Macom HLSJs on my antennas, before their pre-amps, as an FM-trap to attenuate a local FM radio station before it could overload my pre-amps and tuners.
> 
> 
> But getting a meter into your hands (or getting me/Trip/someone who knows how to use one of these meters) will be more expensive than just buying a HLSJ and trying it.



Thanks for your advice and help. I think I have been saying from the get go it is impacting 7.1, 11.1, 13.1 and 8.1....all of the VHF stations I receive.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21240622
> 
> 
> Thanks for your advice and help. I think I have been saying from the get go it is impacting 7.1, 11.1, 13.1 and 8.1....all of the VHF stations I receive.



I stand corrected. And this might actually be easier to remedy. If the interference is not actually spread across all of these channels and is actually just overloading the tuner or amplifier section handling the entire VHF band, then you might very well benefit from the same solution I used, and just lop off any signal below channel 7.


For a discussion of the issue, see "overload" on this page:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/fixes.html 


That Pico-Macom HLSJ that I mentioned earlier is no longer available on Solid Signal, but I'm sure that a similar product is available somewhere. See http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...Splitters&sku= .


Re: the response from the lighting manufacturer, I understand that most parts replacements usually require some proof of purchase like a receipt, but they have a design issue there. It would be present regardless of whether or not the product was still under warranty. You might have to press your case further up their management chain to get a proper remedy.


----------



## rothe

Here you go:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...Splitters&sku= 


Just hook up your antenna to the "Line" side, hook up your pre-amp to the High side, and put a terminator on the low side. This will give you a cheap and very effective "FM trap" that will drop off all FM and RF interference below channel 7.


If the LED noise is overloading the entire VHF spectrum and is originating below channel 7, then this will solve your problem.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21240609
> 
> 
> So far good news! I did get an email response from Malibu Lighting today. It appears they are aware of the issue with their LED lights giving off RF noise. It goes as follows (the typo is from their message):
> 
> 
> "Ye sir we are aware of the issue and have low noise replacements available. Please reply back with a copy of the receipt, model numbers, and quantities needed."
> 
> 
> So next I will see if my neighbor has the receipt. Hopefully they do and I can proceed to see if Malibu will actually send replacements and if the replacements are better at suppressing RF noise. My saga continues.



I am really very happy this is working out so well for you







Not only have you isolated the problem, but your neighbors are obliging to assist, and the company admits their product is faulty AND will replace accordingly. This is all awesome news!










Should your neighbor not have the receipt (and considering how well things have gone up to this point, they probably still do have it) the store they bought it from should have their own copy they could retrieve. Of course, if your neighbors bought it online, there would be online records of the entire transaction from the online vendor.


Can you report back here the specifics of the faulty LED lamps? Such as wattage, manufacturer, etc. I think it would benefit the AVS community to know what to look out for.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21240801
> 
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...Splitters&sku=
> 
> 
> Just hook up your antenna to the "Line" side, hook up your pre-amp to the High side, and put a terminator on the low side. This will give you a cheap and very effective "FM trap" that will drop off all FM and RF interference below channel 7.
> 
> 
> If the LED noise is overloading the entire VHF spectrum and is originating below channel 7, then this will solve your problem.



Thanks Rothe! I will keep this suggestion in mind in case the plan to get replacement lights does not pan out or the new lights are received from Malibu and they do not fix the problem. Your idea is an option I think might work.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21241565
> 
> 
> Hey Len,
> 
> 
> I am really very happy this is working out so well for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not only have you isolated the problem, but your neighbors are obliging to assist, and the company admits their product is faulty AND will replace accordingly. This is all awesome news!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should your neighbor not have the receipt (and considering how well things have gone up to this point, they probably still do have it) the store they bought it from should have their own copy they could retrieve. Of course, if your neighbors bought it online, there would be online records of the entire transaction from the online vendor.
> 
> 
> Can you report back here the specifics of the faulty LED lamps? Such as wattage, manufacturer, etc. I think it would benefit the AVS community to know what to look out for.



Giacomo, the lights are LED low voltage light fixtures sold by Malibu Lighting Corp and made (of course) in China. The model number is 8406-9111-01 and they are rated at 1 watt.


----------



## rothe

You got me curious about those lights, so I searched on the product number and found that they're sold at Home Depot. On Malibu's web site, they also show the separate parts that are available, including a separate "socket wiring assembly" ( http://www.malibulights.com/products...m=8406-9111-01 - then click on "parts") that is presumably the culprit with your RF interference. LED bulbs themselves, being DC components, wouldn't cause this.


Then I did this Google search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=led+Lighting+rf+noise 


There's some really interesting results to be found there. This is a VERY common problem for OTA reception of TV, FM, AM, CB - you name it.


----------



## LenL

Rothe,


Yes there seems to be a lot on the internet about this that would not be discussed here on this forum unless one of us was unfortunate (me) enough to encounter the problem. It might be a bigger problem than any of us thought. I'm not sure if there are standards in this country that manuafacturers have to adhere to with respect to RF noise supression/elimination.


Anyway thanks for the continuing research on this issue. I guess whatever it is that houses the bulbs must reduce the wattage from 12 watts that is coming out of the transformer down to 1 watt used by the bulb? And that is the source of the RF noise if it isn't the bulb? Perhaps you folks who better understand electicity can explain it.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21245536
> 
> 
> Rothe,
> 
> 
> Yes there seems to be a lot on the internet about this that would not be discussed here on this forum unless one of us was unfortunate (me) enough to encounter the problem. It might be a bigger problem than any of us thought. I'm not sure if there are standards in this country that manuafacturers have to adhere to with respect to RF noise supression/elimination.



I expect that we'll see more of this, and that some of these problems will eventually get sorted out. We've already discussed the FCC's interest (or lack thereof) in such matters, but other countries have similar regulatory mechanisms, and most of these products are marketed globally, so these problems will get attention, eventually.


I also expect that retailers like Home Depot will eventually have some say in the matter, if enough customers bring products back because "it impacts my radio or TV or satellite reception" or "my garage door opener won't work when these lights are on" or "my hearing aid nearly blew my only good ear out!" Those were the kinds of testimonies that I read about LED RF interference this morning. Crap products can't stay on the market forever.



> Quote:
> Anyway thanks for the continuing research on this issue. I guess whatever it is that houses the bulbs must reduce the wattage from 12 watts that is coming out of the transformer down to 1 watt used by the bulb? And that is the source of the RF noise if it isn't the bulb? Perhaps you folks who better understand electicity can explain it.



It wouldn't be stepping down the wattage, but might be stepping down the voltage. Regardless, there's apparently a noisy component in the socket wiring assembly that I mentioned earlier, or maybe in the base of the bulb itself. Not the actual LED, but some oscillator in the bulb's own circuitry. That was the case with some of the other bulbs that I read about, and the problem is NOT with all implementations of the technology, just like it isn't a problem across the board with all compact fluorescent lights (CFLs).


I'm not saying that there won't continue to be crappy products on the market, but that there will be a need and a market for quality products that don't suffer these RF interference problems.


Maybe Home Depot deserves a heads-up about this problem. Maybe theirs is one of those web sites that allows customer reviews of products. Amazon might be another good place to vent - er, ummm... I mean "to leverage market forces to produce a better product."


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21246085
> 
> 
> I expect that we'll see more of this, and that some of these problems will eventually get sorted out. We've already discussed the FCC's interest (or lack thereof) in such matters, but other countries have similar regulatory mechanisms, and most of these products are marketed globally, so these problems will get attention, eventually.
> 
> 
> I also expect that retailers like Home Depot will eventually have some say in the matter, if enough customers bring products back because "it impacts my radio or TV or satellite reception" or "my garage door opener won't work when these lights are on" or "my hearing aid nearly blew my only good ear out!" Those were the kinds of testimonies that I read about LED RF interference this morning. Crap products can't stay on the market forever



Another entity which may focus attention on this issue may be emergency responders, police and fire departments, many of whom use VHF frequencies for their mobile and base station communications. There are numerous services making use of the VHF frequencies above the FM Radio Band, including aeronautic, public safety, commercial and government two-way land-mobile, and railroad communications.


Since the test proved that the same interference which obliterated your VHF Television reception was audible on a portable FM radio, that means the interference is affecting ALL the services I listed above. This issue poses a serious risk to the population at large in the event such interference prevents relevant public safety communication to be effectuated.


At this point, I think it would be important to notify the FCC not only to reinforce the weaknesses of relying exclusively upon the VHF Band for Television services, but to alert them to this product and similar ones on the market which on a daily basis by their normal usage are disrupting vital services to communities throughout the country.


----------



## LenL

All of you have good points about this issue. In my case I suspect that if you are over 50 to 100 feet from the lights you would not be impacted. Yes my FM radio test did prove the lights were an issue but I had to get within a foot or 2 of the lights to detect a problem. My OTA antennas are about 50 feet away but since they are catching more signal with a much bigger footprint than that FM radio antenna I suspect more impact from RF noise. Plus the line of sight of my antennas are coming into play as they pretty much face the lights. All of these are factors to consider. Those LED lights would probably not be an issue if they being used by the neighbor on the other side of me. I don't think anyone driving on my street will have a radio issue, phone issue etc. Even emergency responders.


----------



## AloEuro

The other day I've watched dvd the Big Lebowski, in one scene the police chief in Malibu beats and kicks the L.A. trespasser the Dude, and I was wondering Can anything good come out from Malibu the Lights or no lights. Anyway, LenL, when the Pony Express from California arrives, let us know.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21249245
> 
> 
> All of you have good points about this issue. In my case I suspect that if you are over 50 to 100 feet from the lights you would not be impacted. Yes my FM radio test did prove the lights were an issue but I had to get within a foot or 2 of the lights to detect a problem. My OTA antennas are about 50 feet away but since they are catching more signal with a much bigger footprint than that FM radio antenna I suspect more impact from RF noise. Plus the line of sight of my antennas are coming into play as they pretty much face the lights. All of these are factors to consider. Those LED lights would probably not be an issue if they being used by the neighbor on the other side of me. I don't think anyone driving on my street will have a radio issue, phone issue etc. Even emergency responders.



you're going to have to put aside that fear of heights you have and put the antennas higher or move them back more to the other side of the house. might as well just consolidate to a better, sole antenna.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21240609
> 
> 
> So far good news! I did get an email response from Malibu Lighting today. It appears they are aware of the issue with their LED lights giving off RF noise. It goes as follows (the typo is from their message):
> 
> 
> "Ye sir we are aware of the issue and have low noise replacements available. Please reply back with a copy of the receipt, model numbers, and quantities needed."
> 
> 
> So next I will see if my neighbor has the receipt. Hopefully they do and I can proceed to see if Malibu will actually send replacements and if the replacements are better at suppressing RF noise. My saga continues.



Since it is your neighbor and you are not responsible for the receipt. Hopefully they will let you just return then for a replacement. Or let you buy the low noise at a low cost.


This will be your cheapest way out of this mess.


I learn so much from this forum


----------



## LenL

My Neighbor gave me the receipt. I scanned it and made an electronic PDF copy. I sent it to Malibu Lighting and now wait for their reply. Since I gave them what they asked for we should hear back that they are sending replacement LED assemblies that don't give off RF noise or at least reduce the noise. Either option would be helpful. I am considering whether I should add some other LOW VHF filters suggested. These would be at the antenna and before the preamp. Not sure these would do anything for my RF noise issue but if the replacement LED assemblies don't help these will be worth a try and my only other option. No.... I'm not relocating antennas!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

I suggest waiting to add any filters until the replacement LEDs arrive, are installed, and put in operation. The lag time will probably be frustrating for you, but you want to know if the replacements alleviate the problem. Alternately, you could install them now and take them off-line once the replacements arrive to test. If you don't hear back from the company in a reasonable time, don't hesitate to send them a friendly reminder e-mail.


----------



## SubaruB4

Man it's been awhile since I looked at WABC on OTA.. man geez does it look softer now.. Why do they have two livewell channels?


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21266212
> 
> 
> Man it's been awhile since I looked at WABC on OTA.. man geez does it look softer now.. Why do they have two livewell channels?



Does seem like a total waste. ABC's explanation is that it maximizes the number of viewers. In other words, cable companies make the HD version available only to subscribers with HD equipment. Hopefully, that won't last much longer. I do miss the AccuWeather channel.

On that note, CBS is looking at a local newschannel setup to run on their O&Os. They stated that they will have an hourly "wheel" format with specific types of reports each hour, the same way their newsradio stations operate.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21267176
> 
> 
> On that note, CBS is looking at a local newschannel setup to run on their O&Os. They stated that they will have an hourly "wheel" format with specific types of reports each hour, the same way their newsradio stations operate.



Yes, and it's scheduled to fire up before the end of the year.


----------



## SubaruB4

Looking forward to see how it goes.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21249245
> 
> 
> All of you have good points about this issue. In my case I suspect that if you are over 50 to 100 feet from the lights you would not be impacted. Yes my FM radio test did prove the lights were an issue but I had to get within a foot or 2 of the lights to detect a problem. My OTA antennas are about 50 feet away but since they are catching more signal with a much bigger footprint than that FM radio antenna I suspect more impact from RF noise. Plus the line of sight of my antennas are coming into play as they pretty much face the lights. All of these are factors to consider. Those LED lights would probably not be an issue if they being used by the neighbor on the other side of me. I don't think anyone driving on my street will have a radio issue, phone issue etc. Even emergency responders.



An FM broadcast radio receiver is specifically designed to eliminate amplitude inteference. The R.F. noise from the LED lights will have far more impact on VHF 8VSB television.


Distance IS your friend as you say.


FCC is very keen on working with situations like this. Notify them if the manufacturer doesn't see the problem is eliminated.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21266212
> 
> 
> Man it's been awhile since I looked at WABC on OTA.. man geez does it look softer now.. Why do they have two livewell channels?



Not really pertinent to your post, but overnight (early this AM) from 1:28 to 2:45 I recorded the Da Vinci's Inquest episode and had no reception issues at all. I know that the work at the ESB is supposed to continue to the end of the year (longer?) and that they are doing it late at night (early AM), but I'm hopeful that it's either done or about to be done.


I haven't been recording that show for a couple of months or more now, so I'm not current on the status of overnight reception. I recorded last night's episode because it's one of the ones I missed previously and I'm trying to get the entire series for myself. My next missing episode is ~11 weeks off, so I'm thinking the work should be done by then.


I missed either all or part of quite a few episodes earlier this year due to the ESB work. Seems they were doing it right around the time Da Vinci was on. So I hope that work is winding down because I don't know how much longer they are going to continue broadcasting this show.


As for your issue, the quality looks fine to me, but I'm not really watching anything in true HD anyway even tho' I have that capability. Plus this show isn't being broadcast in a full-screen HD format (the screen display is smaller).


The only other NYC OTA issue for me is my MY9 reception, which appears to be just a bit off. But it might just be me. My antenna took a hit in that October snowstorm. The mast got bent right at the roofline as the wind and snow load (I guess) caused it to get bent straight over onto my roof. So I lost about 18 inches of mast height, which I just cut off. The antenna itself also took a bit of a hit in the fall, but seems to work just fine but for the possible MY9 problem.


But, again, it could be the ESB work that accounts. I'm hoping I get good enough reception for the Giants game tonight; but at the moment, it's looking a little iffy.



__________________

Sony KV-27HS420

SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))

RS Model VU-190 XR antenna


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21268879
> 
> 
> But, again, it could be the ESB work that accounts. I'm hoping I get good enough reception for the Giants game tonight; but at the moment, it's looking a little iffy.




There is currently tropo enhancement so signals are going to travel further. A borderline reception situation can be expected to change.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/21269324
> 
> 
> There is currently tropo enhancement so signals are going to travel further. A borderline reception situation can be expected to change.



Distance is not my problem. I have partial blockage from a ridge that's nearby.


I just tried to fine tune my reception by tweaking the antenna a bit to the right or left. The reception is still very iffy @ 84%, which is right on the edge of reception.


But channels 11 and 13 are very good and even better than usual.


However, ch 4 is also pretty iffy. And that's usually pretty good.


So I'm thinking maybe the UHF portion of my antenna, which got bent a bit in the fall due to the snowfall, is responsible.


I'll have to straighten that out (if I can) and see if that improves my reception.


In the meantime, looks like my Giants game viewing tonight will be pretty unsatisfactory


Unless conditions improve by game time (which would be nice)


----------



## Keith

Is it true that CBS 2.2 has a place holder ?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes!


----------



## mikepier

Yep, just did a scan, and sure enough picked up 2.2


Now wondering when this actually goes live, and also how much does 2.1 suffer.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/21271441
> 
> 
> Yep, just did a scan, and sure enough picked up 2.2......and how much does 2.1 suffer.



That is the $64,000 question.


----------



## icemannyr

Anyone else having PSIP issues WNYE-DT?


WNYE keeps mapping channels to 24.3 and 24.4 with no channel name for either channel.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21272435
> 
> 
> Anyone else having PSIP issues WNYE-DT?
> 
> 
> WNYE keeps mapping channels to 24.3 and 24.4 with no channel name for either channel.



I have had that problem for months. Tried contacting WNYE, no response.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/21271441
> 
> 
> Yep, just did a scan, and sure enough picked up 2.2
> 
> 
> Now wondering when this actually goes live, and also how much does 2.1 suffer.



The ID for the WCBS 2.2 channel states: "NEWS, WEATHER, TRAFFIC AND SPORTS" with just a black screen and no sound.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

The WCBS-TV New York .2 sub-channel is indeed an active stream with no audio or video content. It is SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio. Language is English. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *CBSNY+* on virtual channel 2-2. Time and program guide information are accurate.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21273006
> 
> 
> The ID for the WCBS 2.2 channel states: "NEWS, WEATHER, TRAFFIC AND SPORTS" with just a black screen and no sound.



This text appears as the current program, both title and subject. It is a 24-hour program beginning daily at 12:00AM and ending at 11:59PM.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21273293
> 
> 
> The WCBS-TV New York .2 sub-channel is indeed an active stream with no audio or video content. It is SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio.



I hope they can learn from NY nonstop on 4.2 and broadcast in 16:9 SD.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21273006
> 
> 
> The ID for the WCBS 2.2 channel states: "NEWS, WEATHER, TRAFFIC AND SPORTS" with just a black screen and no sound.



I was going to say the same I had just got my new tv yesterday and I saw that 2.2 and but it was blank so I don't know what was wrong.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21268879
> 
> 
> Not really pertinent to your post, but overnight (early this AM) from 1:28 to 2:45 I recorded the Da Vinci's Inquest episode and had no reception issues at all. I know that the work at the ESB is supposed to continue to the end of the year (longer?) and that they are doing it late at night (early AM), but I'm hopeful that it's either done or about to be done.
> 
> 
> I haven't been recording that show for a couple of months or more now, so I'm not current on the status of overnight reception. I recorded last night's episode because it's one of the ones I missed previously and I'm trying to get the entire series for myself. My next missing episode is ~11 weeks off, so I'm thinking the work should be done by then.
> 
> 
> I missed either all or part of quite a few episodes earlier this year due to the ESB work. Seems they were doing it right around the time Da Vinci was on. So I hope that work is winding down because I don't know how much longer they are going to continue broadcasting this show.
> 
> 
> As for your issue, the quality looks fine to me, but I'm not really watching anything in true HD anyway even tho' I have that capability. Plus this show isn't being broadcast in a full-screen HD format (the screen display is smaller).
> 
> 
> The only other NYC OTA issue for me is my MY9 reception, which appears to be just a bit off. But it might just be me. My antenna took a hit in that October snowstorm. The mast got bent right at the roofline as the wind and snow load (I guess) caused it to get bent straight over onto my roof. So I lost about 18 inches of mast height, which I just cut off. The antenna itself also took a bit of a hit in the fall, but seems to work just fine but for the possible MY9 problem.
> 
> 
> But, again, it could be the ESB work that accounts. I'm hoping I get good enough reception for the Giants game tonight; but at the moment, it's looking a little iffy.
> 
> 
> 
> __________________
> 
> Sony KV-27HS420
> 
> SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))
> 
> RS Model VU-190 XR antenna




You know what's odd.. is I just got a new TV so I did a channel scan and it found way more channels then my set-top box and my tv tuner card in the PC.. it's like stations I could never get like WMBC and a few others. They all come back with weak or no signal..


Now having said that what is this channel called "Antenna?" it's mostly all b&w old shows?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21276552
> 
> 
> You know what's odd.. is I just got a new TV so I did a channel scan and it found way more channels then my set-top box and my tv tuner card in the PC.. it's like stations I could never get like WMBC and a few others. They all come back with weak or no signal..
> 
> 
> Now having said that what is this channel called "Antenna?" it's mostly all b&w old shows?



My two brands of set top boxes are vastly different in terms of reception capability. The VOOM is the older one and it's much better at pulling in stations. The Samsung is significantly worse than the VOOM even tho' it's a more recent box.


Plus I have two of each brand, and the one VOOM pretty significantly outdoes the other, so go figure.


But both boxes (VOOM and Samsung) are well-outdated at this point and I would expect that your new TV's tuner would be better at pulling in stations, generally speaking.


You might want to look at the Wikipedia page for Antenna TV if you'd like to know a bit more about it.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21276552
> 
> 
> You know what's odd.. is I just got a new TV so I did a channel scan and it found way more channels then my set-top box and my tv tuner card in the PC.. it's like stations I could never get like WMBC and a few others. They all come back with weak or no signal..
> 
> 
> Now having said that what is this channel called "Antenna?" it's mostly all b&w old shows?



No color also

http://www.antennatv.tv/


----------



## SubaruB4

Is the signal coming from the ESB? I did not see anything on the wiki showing


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21273293
> 
> 
> It is a 24-hour program beginning daily at 12:00AM and ending at 11:59PM.



Still no audio nor video on 2-2 CBSNY+, however, I noticed that the beginning and ending times were adjusted to the top of each hour -- I assume to match up with their "wheel." I am surprised that they aren't doing any stunting (for example, what WNJU and SOI are airing on the recently launched 47.3, all about starting a TV channel -- but what's it really about?!).


On another note, what's happened with WKOB? I have not tuned in for a while as I don't get it after dark (or actually, after the street lights turn on). Tried tuning in to HOT TV over the weekend to just see a test pattern. Has HOT gone the way of RTV and the 24/7 Movie Network? Thanks in advance for any details...


----------



## tjeremiah

was flipping through the channels and noticed 2.2 (didnt even scan for it). As mentioned the channel remains black so im wondering when we will be able to see the content they are pushing on this now LIVE channel.


I was also watching the Victoria Secret Fashion Show (







) last night (despite being very windy outside, my picture only broke up twice during the broadcast) and noticed CBS 2.1 quality sound and picture still was great despite this new channel showing up (or should I wait for actual content to show up on the new channel to do "test"?).


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey SubaruB4 and NYC,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21276948
> 
> 
> Is the signal coming from the ESB? I did not see anything on the wiki showing



Yes. *Antenna* is the .4 sub-channel of WPIX New York, Channel 11. It has been active since December 31, 2010.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21277683
> 
> 
> On another note, what's happened with WKOB? I have not tuned in for a while as I don't get it after dark (or actually, after the street lights turn on). Tried tuning in to HOT TV over the weekend to just see a test pattern. Has HOT gone the way of RTV and the 24/7 Movie Network? Thanks in advance for any details...



Yeah, HOT TV has been off for about three weeks. Before the outage, Nave was advertising for salespeople to sell standard and long-form spots on 42-3, formerly 42-4. I don't know if they recruited anyone, but if selling the station was hard before (lack of advertising, public-domain programming mainly appealing to an upper-end demographic, many people ignorant about how OTA TV works, Low-Power signal on an interference-prone TV band, etc.), I doubt a 24/7 test pattern with no audio will improve its appeal to a broad array of potential advertisers










Don't misunderstand me. I liked watching HOT TV and WKOB 24/7 Drive-In and would like for them to return. But they have been cost-effective placeholders until a programmer comes along wishing to lease the sub-channels, such as what apparently happened with 42-1 when Mundo Hispano TV came along. This is probably why the channel lineup was switched around shortly before MHTV replaced WKOB 24/7 Drive-In. The rearrangement gave MHTV the primary channel status.


Television is a business and licensees have to be profitable to continue to offer their valued services to the public at no cost.


HOT TV maintains both a website and a Facebook page, but neither seem to impart any reason for the outage on WKOB.

HOT TV Network 
WKOB HOT TV 42.3 


That being said, even if another programmer is waiting in the wings, I don't know why Nave simply discontinued the feed.


The RTV situation is different. That network is rapidly losing affiliates because of poor business practices such as failing to re-license popular libraries and poor customer service. They took down their old Facebook page because they didn't like all the comments from viewers across the country who questioned why the signal was so poor. Now they have a new Facebook page on which they put out all their information and use their actual website as a back-up







Very unusual situation over there in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I really would like for RTV to once again become a viable source of classic TV, but with their present lineup and questionable customer service it doesn't seem likely very soon.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21278451
> 
> 
> They took down their old Facebook page because they didn't like all the comments from viewers across the country who questioned why the signal was so poor.



I have been told the old page was lost, not taken down.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

I know it will be 24/7 news, sports and weather but....


How about when March Madness comes that they show games on both 2.1 and 2.2? This way we are not missing as much as we do today?


Also for Sunday football they could show games on both channels especially when one game is running into the start of another.


How about putting some local college games on the tube whether it be football, hoops or another sport.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21279088
> 
> 
> Also for Sunday football they could show games on both channels especially when one game is running into the start of another.



I doubt it. A subchannel is not going to make anything different. It's the city/market you are in.


There have been instances though they will show the completion of a 1:00 game on a DH network unless the Giants or Jets play at 4:15.


If a 1:00 game goes past 4:11, they will cut out of that game to bring you to the Giants or Jets game at 4:15.


----------



## AloEuro

Full scan give 52 ch.,over 20 edited out for better up/down stream


2-1 WCBS - HD 1920x1080i 30 Hz Dolby Surround

2-2 CBSNY+ 640x 480i 30 Hz Doly Stereo

NEWS,WEATHER,TRAFFIC and SPORTS listed 1:00 AM to 12AM 22/23 hrs nonstop


----------



## NYC

I wonder how much of the programming will be repeats.


News 12 seems to repeat the same newscast much of the day. Their traffic and weather channel also repeats traffic reports, though the traffic images are live. NY1 is also mostly repeats, however each news item is its own segment, so that segments my be rearranged or updated as necessary.


And thank you, Giacomo, for the update on HOT TV/WKOB. Viewer services from both RTV and WKOB are both really lame. They seemed to respond to viewer questions, at least via Facebook, but now it seems as if they just delete as many of the comments and questions, as they are not exactly positive. I have read that RTV now covers less than half of the US.


----------



## SnellKrell

I would imagine that each day, the majority of the programming will be repeated.


As warranted, there will be news and weather updates.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21280763
> 
> 
> I would imagine that each day, the majority of the programming will be repeated.
> 
> 
> As warranted, there will be news and weather updates.



Well I been asking for a 24/7 news/ cnn type of station. I guess this will be a good add on. No other channel has this format on a sub. Local news and weather would be good. imo


----------



## SubaruB4

Is WNYE's city drive channel still running? My scan I last did showed nothing but just the two channels.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21282020
> 
> 
> Is WNYE's city drive channel still running? My scan I last did showed nothing but just the two channels.



if you have crime warner cable is on their public access channels


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21282048
> 
> 
> if you have crime warner cable is on their public access channels



Crime Warner? I think you must be thinking of your monthy bill.










Equally overpriced Cablevision also has the City Drive channel along with a similar channel from News 12, the Traffic and Weather channel. I think NY1 also has a traffic channel, but not on Cablevision.


NYC Media has a couple of other channels. See info about them here . Also part of the package is CUNY TV .


Speaking of WNYE, I tried contacting them again regarding the channel ID issue. Still no response. The NYC.GOV website lists a contact phone number and email address for technical issues.


----------



## nycdigital09

both cable companies are low in totem pole for service but crime warner is by far the worst.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey NYC (Awesome username, btw







),


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21282112
> 
> 
> NYC Media has a couple of other channels. See info about them here . Also part of the package is CUNY TV .
> 
> 
> Speaking of WNYE, I tried contacting them again regarding the channel ID issue. Still no response. The NYC.GOV website lists a contact phone number and email address for technical issues.



Have you tried unplugging your tuner and performing a re-scan? Alternately, you may try deleting and then adding the channel. I don't have any issue with the TVCT data on WNYE-TV.


WASA-LD, RF 25 using virtual channel 24, presents a problem for some people if they do not have strong enough reception of WNYE-TV, RF 24 using virtual channel 25, and vice-versa. If the auto-scan doesn't see BOTH channels, it is nearly impossible to manually add the one missed.


I once performed an auto-scan for an associate, and it caught WASA-LD but not WNYE-TV. The TV offered no way to manually add a channel, so they are out of luck. When I entered "24" it automatically went to WASA-LD, then I entered "25" and it automatically went to WASA-LD.


I dislike tuners that prevent users from manually entering the RF channel as such equipment deprives both broadcasters and viewers from achieving their full range of potential audience and programming choices, respectively.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21279088
> 
> 
> I know it will be 24/7 news, sports and weather but....
> 
> 
> How about when March Madness comes that they show games on both 2.1 and 2.2?



They already did that years ago, with a 4 channel SD multicast, but now with Turner involved it's a moot point.



> Quote:
> Also for Sunday football they could show games on both channels especially when one game is running into the start of another.



Never happen. NFL contractual agreements, including at a minimum the 'NFL must be in HD' issue.



> Quote:
> How about putting some local college games on the tube whether it be football, hoops or another sport.



Nope. It will be like Headline News of old, all about the NYC area.


Nothing new under the Sun.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21282441
> 
> 
> 
> I dislike tuners that prevent users from manually entering the RF channel as such equipment deprives both broadcasters and viewers from achieving their full range of potential audience and programming choices, respectively.



I think my tv is like this.. I tried to manually do 25-3 and it wont go to it


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21283295
> 
> 
> I think my tv is like this.. I tried to manually do 25-3 and it wont go to it



Many DTV tuners work this way:


Manually enter in the real VHF or UHF channel number, not the virtual channel number.


For example, in the NYC area WNYE-TV is virtual channel 25, but the real channel is 24. So, try manually entering 24-1, and see what happens.


A few other NYC channels:

WCBS - real 33, virtual 2

WNBC - real 28, virtual 4

WABC - real 7, virtual 7

WYNW - real 44, virtual 5

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21283406
> 
> 
> Many DTV tuners work this way:
> 
> 
> Manually enter in the real VHF or UHF channel number, not the virtual channel number.
> 
> 
> For example, in the NYC area WNYE-TV is virtual channel 25, but the real channel is 24. So, try manually entering 24-1, and see what happens.
> 
> 
> A few other NYC channels:
> 
> WCBS - real 33, virtual 2
> 
> WNBC - real 28, virtual 4
> 
> WABC - real 7, virtual 7
> 
> WYNW - real 44, virtual 5
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=




hmm odd it's a low power station but I checked my signal and it's 0 so I wonder how that and a few others I know for sure i'd never get are in my list..


Channels like WMBC and KCBN and like maybe 4-5 other channels.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Ken,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21283406
> 
> 
> Many DTV tuners work this way:
> 
> 
> Manually enter in the real VHF or UHF channel number, not the virtual channel number.
> 
> 
> For example, in the NYC area WNYE-TV is virtual channel 25, but the real channel is 24. So, try manually entering 24-1, and see what happens.



That's true, but the WNYE-TV/WASA-LD situation is unique because the RF and virtual channels are exactly transposed as I explained:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21282441
> 
> 
> WASA-LD, RF 25 using virtual channel 24, presents a problem for some people if they do not have strong enough reception of WNYE-TV, RF 24 using virtual channel 25, and vice-versa. If the auto-scan doesn't see BOTH channels, it is nearly impossible to manually add the one missed.
> 
> 
> I once performed an auto-scan for an associate, and it caught WASA-LD but not WNYE-TV. The TV offered no way to manually add a channel, so they are out of luck. When I entered "24" it automatically went to WASA-LD, then I entered "25" and it automatically went to WASA-LD



Because they are exactly transposed, entering "24" simply brought me to virtual 24-1, while entering "25" brought me to RF 25 which is virtual 24-1. The tuner worked appropriately, and had WASA-LD or WNYE-TV chose any other virtual number there would have been no problem.


Because this TV had no option for entering RF numbers which would have immediately solved the problem, a full-power TV station had been bypassed in auto-scan.


----------



## tjeremiah

just tried to see if CBSNY+ was showing any content and noticed the channel is now gone and appears to be off the air.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, it's gone bye-bye!


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21282020
> 
> 
> Is WNYE's city drive channel still running? My scan I last did showed nothing but just the two channels.



Earlier this year 25.2 was switched from NYC drive to NYC gov.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21287052
> 
> 
> Yes, it's gone bye-bye!



it's was gone off my tv today as well.. which brings me to this question.. Does Samsung tv's scan the channels or so often? I just happen to direct key to the channel and it just flipped to 2-1


I'm just used to the way my set-top box worked


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21287052
> 
> 
> Yes, it's gone bye-bye!



I see it differently. That was just a test of the equipment. I think they are really close to the launch. Maybe they had to take it off to add the video and audio?


----------



## SnellKrell

Of course the station is testing and preparing - WCBS hasn't abandoned

the project!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21288070
> 
> 
> Of course the station is testing and preparing - WCBS hasn't abandoned
> 
> the project!



that's right. NEWS HD!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21283594
> 
> 
> Hey Ken,
> 
> 
> That's true, but the WNYE-TV/WASA-LD situation is unique because the RF and virtual channels are exactly transposed as I explained:
> 
> 
> Because they are exactly transposed, entering "24" simply brought me to virtual 24-1, while entering "25" brought me to RF 25 which is virtual 24-1. The tuner worked appropriately, and had WASA-LD or WNYE-TV chose any other virtual number there would have been no problem.
> 
> 
> Because this TV had no option for entering RF numbers which would have immediately solved the problem, a full-power TV station had been bypassed in auto-scan.



Have you tried to tune a real channel with the dot or dash 1?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21288626
> 
> 
> Have you tried to tune a real channel with the dot or dash 1?



That's the problem with this situation.


WNYE-24 maps to 25-1.

WASA-25 maps to 24-1.


Without a Zenith-like option to manually specify an RF channel number, he is unable to tune the missing station.


- Trip


----------



## NYC

Thanks, Giacomo, for the info on HOT TV.


WNYE did respond, they indicated it might be a problem with certain receivers, and that they are looking into it. I have a Samsung set that picks up WNYE on 24-3 and NYC gov on 24-4. Tried deleting and rescanning. I think it is not only odd that WNYE appears on the RF instead of the virtual channel, but also that it is on sub 3 (even though there is a 24-3 on WASA) and sub 4 for the gov channel. _icemannyr_ -- I think you stated the same, would you also happen to have a Samsung as well?


Also noticed that 2-2 has vanished. They did state that the revised launch date would be by the end of the year, no?


Thanks,

NYC (just indicates where I live







)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21288650
> 
> 
> That's the problem with this situation.
> 
> 
> WNYE-24 maps to 25-1.
> 
> WASA-25 maps to 24-1.
> 
> 
> Without a Zenith-like option to manually specify an RF channel number, he is unable to tune the missing station.
> 
> 
> - Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey NYC,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21288816
> 
> 
> Thanks, Giacomo, for the info on HOT TV.



You're welcome. I can only reiterate that I would like to see at least one of the public-domain channels return. If not, I would like to see The Cool TV make an entrance into the New York market. Either way, programming would be vastly better than the present 42-3










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21288816
> 
> 
> WNYE did respond, they indicated it might be a problem with certain receivers, and that they are looking into it. I have a Samsung set that picks up WNYE on 24-3 and NYC gov on 24-4. Tried deleting and rescanning. I think it is not only odd that WNYE appears on the RF instead of the virtual channel, but also that it is on sub 3 (even though there is a 24-3 on WASA) and sub 4 for the gov channel.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> NYC (just indicates where I live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



I'm glad to hear you contacted them and that they promptly responded. It is important for viewers to report any reception issues to TV broadcasters.


Your Samsung TV is reporting correctly. WNYE-TV's actual RF channels are 24-3 and 24-4. Those RF channel numbers are absolutely unrelated to WASA-LD using "24" for their virtual channel number.


It would have been SO much easier had WNYE-TV returned to RF 25. I recall the WASA-LD application which specified operation on RF 25. WNYE-TV, which stayed on RF 24 and as such would be a first adjacent, had no objections as long as WASA-LD did not use "25" as a virtual number. I'm guessing they didn't anticipate WASA-LD would choose "24", presenting a situation like this


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21288650
> 
> 
> That's the problem with this situation.
> 
> 
> WNYE-24 maps to 25-1.
> 
> WASA-25 maps to 24-1.



Got it. I'm trying to confirm there is no way to add the dot/dash 1 (or 2, etc.) to the real (not virtual) channel selection from the remote. My theory is that if the tuner can see the exact real channel number it may pick up the channel. If you can't select the dot/dash number, it's a moot point.


I've seen something similar in Detroit when WJBK switched from real 58 to real 7, where a virtual 7 existed (real 41). One of my old tuners would tune both, but delete real 7 from it's table of channels every time it tuned virtual 7.


----------



## AloEuro

Punch in 25 goes to 25-1 WNYE1 and does not move to others, no mapping out , which means that the cable holders may have rerouting problems -deficient/insufficient outdated cable providers given equipment, sorry.

Go straight Antenna to TV, bypass cable, or use converter box as I do and the gliches will disappear.

2-2 CBSNY+ maps out again to 42-1, for the 3 days testing it was solid 2-2 no mapping out, it does now.

On second thought, I edited out WASA 24-1 keeping the 24-2,3


----------



## SnellKrell

For those who may be interested, the PSIP for 2.2 is back!


Black screen, no audio.


----------



## n2jtx

I was wondering what happened to it yesterday. I have to admit, that black screen is some of the better programming I have seen lately


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21290345
> 
> 
> For those who may be interested, the PSIP for 2.2 is back!
> 
> 
> Black screen, no audio.



Yes saw it today.


I tried the extra amp I had and saw what you guys warned me about. The amp gave TOO MUCH signal and the stations I had at 100 went to 55 and froze. I actually lost stations. So I put it back the way i had it originally and had to do a full system reset. The good news is that my aunt now gets 51 channels including subs. Almost like basic cable.


I am guessing CBS 2.2 is coming within a week and 9.2 BOUNCE TV soon to follow.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Ken,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21289013
> 
> 
> Got it. I'm trying to confirm there is no way to add the dot/dash 1 (or 2, etc.) to the real (not virtual) channel selection from the remote. My theory is that if the tuner can see the exact real channel number it may pick up the channel. If you can't select the dot/dash number, it's a moot point.



On the specific TV I was trying to program, I tried entering all of the following: "24", "24-1", "24-3", "25", "25-1", "25-3". Every one of these tuned in WASA-LD. Yes, the TV accepted entering sub-channels, but the exact transposition of the channel numbers is what presented the problem.


Had WASA-LD used "25", the saved lineup would have appeared like this:


25-1 WNYE125-1 WASA-LD25-2 WNYE225-2 WASA-LD2 (Or whatever PSIP they used then)25-3 WASA-LD3

WNYE-TV would appear first because RF 24 precedes RF 25. When two or more virtual channels are identical, the channels group together, regardless of RF number, in the order of lowest to highest RF position.


So, essentially, while two "25"s may be a little confusing to some people, it would have allowed both channels to be tuned and saved.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/20987037
> 
> 
> Still no CBS sub-station or any news? I am beginning to think it was a prank



They were testing something last week. I saw 2.2 CBSNY+ show up with no video.


Trust me, it is coming.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21292474
> 
> 
> Ken,
> 
> 
> On the specific TV I was trying to program, I tried entering all of the following: "24", "24-1", "24-3", "25", "25-1", "25-3". Every one of these tuned in WASA-LD. Yes, the TV accepted entering sub-channels, but the exact transposition of the channel numbers is what presented the problem.
> 
> 
> Had WASA-LD used "25", the saved lineup would have appeared like this:
> 
> 
> 25-1 WNYE125-1 WASA-LD25-2 WNYE225-2 WASA-LD2 (Or whatever PSIP they used then)25-3 WASA-LD3
> 
> WNYE-TV would appear first because RF 24 precedes RF 25. When two or more virtual channels are identical, the channels group together, regardless of RF number, in the order of lowest to highest RF position.
> 
> 
> So, essentially, while two "25"s may be a little confusing to some people, it would have allowed both channels to be tuned and saved.



This doesn't work on all tuners. My Apex DTV-250 would have ignored one of them.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21290345
> 
> 
> For those who may be interested, the PSIP for 2.2 is back!
> 
> 
> Black screen, no audio.



Gone this morning.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, on again, off again!


----------



## SubaruB4

lol yeah gone again for me as well are you guys getting programming info on 2-2 as well? it shows up for me when the channel is on (no picture)


----------



## SnellKrell

When it was on, the only thing I received was PSIP information.


That's all!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21292474
> 
> 
> Ken,
> 
> 
> On the specific TV I was trying to program, I tried entering all of the following: "24", "24-1", "24-3", "25", "25-1", "25-3". Every one of these tuned in WASA-LD. Yes, the TV accepted entering sub-channels, but the exact transposition of the channel numbers is what presented the problem.



Sorry to hear that. The problem is with the tuner. Bad firmware or software.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21294759
> 
> 
> When it was on, the only thing I received was PSIP information.
> 
> 
> That's all!




Ok same here


----------



## scorpiontail60

Blech... with this new subchannel WCBS's bitrate is now down to 14-15 Mbps from the previous 16-17 Mbps. We're looking at least a 2 Mbit bitrate loss; overall less damage than I anticipated but we aren't out of the woods yet.


It's probably going to get even worse once the channel fully launches and there's action on the screen, they'll probably take away even more bandwidth from the main CBS HD channel. Subchannels are a cancer taking over the modern digital over-the-air era.


So much for CBS being the leader in HD picture quality


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scorpiontail60* /forum/post/21297901
> 
> 
> Blech... with this new subchannel WCBS's bitrate is now down to 14-15 Mbps from the previous 16-17 Mbps. We're looking at least a 2 Mbit bitrate loss; overall less damage than I anticipated but we aren't out of the woods yet.
> 
> 
> It's probably going to get even worse once the channel fully launches and there's action on the screen, they'll probably take away even more bandwidth from the main CBS HD channel. Subchannels are a cancer taking over the modern digital over-the-air era.
> 
> 
> So much for CBS being the leader in HD picture quality



Well said!


There have been so many who constantly display unbridled anticipation for this new service and pay absolutely no attention to the price to be paid!


----------



## DTVintermods

They are reducing their video quality for net eyeballs they hope to gain. Can't wait to see how this policy will work when they go mobile and give up another 4MB


----------



## Trip in VA

CBS isn't currently on the list of companies backing Mobile DTV. That could change, of course, but it's not a worry in the immediate future.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

I really think that CBS's new found interest in sub-channels is connected to the company looking forward to mobile viewership - additional audience, additional revenue.


----------



## Trip in VA

I think it's more tied to the FCC trying to take spectrum away and claiming companies like CBS aren't using it.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

And by instituting a sub-channel, isn't CBS demonstrating that its main station in New York, Channel 2.1, can provide its service with less bits? Wouldn't that then justify narrowing the bandwidth?


----------



## Trip in VA

The FCC is already settled on the fact that they can provide service with less bits. The complaint from them has been the lack of subchannels. "Empty boxcars," remember?


- Trip


----------



## a72849

Trip - Thanks for your huge number of interesting posts. Just for the record:


Channel 2.1, can provide its service with "fewer" bits/second.


Bits are a quantity, so the adjective is fewer. Use less when you cannot count the noun: Fewer dollars/less money.


I am going to Shop Rite to complain about their "Less than 10 items" sign










John


----------



## nycdigital09

i think we're having a huge hangup with bitrates, cbs 2 still gonna look awesome


----------



## Trip in VA

Haha, thanks for the correction. No offense taken.


Maybe I should have made less posts?










- Trip


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21298573
> 
> 
> i think we're having a huge hangup with bitrates, cbs 2 still gonna look awesome



I think you don't know what you're talking about.


There is a direct relationship between bitrate and HD quality. It remains to be seen what CBS HD will look like after the subchannel is operational.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21298968
> 
> 
> I think you don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> There is a direct relationship between bitrate and HD quality. It remains to be seen what CBS HD will look like after the subchannel is operational.



Amen!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21298156
> 
> 
> I think it's more tied to the FCC trying to take spectrum away and claiming companies like CBS aren't using it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hey Trip,




We all know the more subs equals less PQ. Of course one sub should not affect it too much????


1) The fact that CBS NY gives out the signal for TVGOS. Will this also affect PQ? Since this will take bandwidth away at certain times of the day.


2) How much bandwidth does TVGOS use?


3) Can the FCC force CBS to put on any Sub? Didn't I read that CBS said it would be a high quality sub?


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21299028
> 
> 
> Of course one sub should not affect it too much????



That remains to be seen.



> Quote:
> 1) The fact that CBS NY gives out the signal for TVGOS. Will this also affect PQ?



No.



> Quote:
> 2) How much bandwidth does TVGOS use?



Not enough to matter to HD quality.



> Quote:
> 3) Can the FCC force CBS to put on any Sub?



No. The FCC has no control in this respect.



> Quote:
> Didn't I read that CBS said it would be a high quality sub?



If they said anything, of course they'd say that. What did you expect them to say, yes we're adding a subchannel and it will look like dog poop?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are reducing their video quality for net eyeballs they hope to gain. Can't wait to see how this policy will work when they go mobile and give up another 4MB



Mobile is nowhere near 4mbps


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21298166
> 
> 
> And by instituting a sub-channel, isn't CBS demonstrating that its main station in New York, Channel 2.1, can provide its service with less bits? Wouldn't that then justify narrowing the bandwidth?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21298171
> 
> 
> The FCC is already settled on the fact that they can provide service with less bits. The complaint from them has been the lack of subchannels. "Empty boxcars," remember?
> 
> 
> - Trip



While SnellKrell voices legitimate concerns over the PQ of WCBS-TV New York and other CBS O&Os, we must keep in mind the political environment we presently are in with respect to free OTA DTV. The charge from the fcc has not been that broadcasters provide poor picture/sound quality, it has been they provide little to no content for their existing licensed bandwidth, thus why do they need their "huge"







6 MHz swath?


Trip is entirely correct in this instance. By adding subchannels, CBS will only be the caboose on the broadcast TV train. Other New York market stations have already proven they can provide their service with less bits. WNYW and WWOR-TV presently replicate alternate SD feeds, as does WXTV and WFUT. WMBC-TV Newton already transmits six A/V channels and two Audio channels. In fact, there are a few stations in California that presently transmit 20 subchannels. And the fcc knows all about these stations and many more like them.


CBS, like other TV broadcasters, is in one of the toughest fights for their OTA survival at this point. Perhaps the fight fifteen years ago prior to the DTV transition was about picture quality, but not today. Today, broadcasters have to justify that they need every portion of their 6 MHz. allocation, and if that means multiple subchannels of varying content, that is what they have to put on the air.


Unless CBS makes an attempt to replicate the ABC model of two HDs, there shouldn't be significant reduction to the PQ on 2-1. Of course there will be a noticeable difference, more prominent on larger non-CRT televisions, but I would rather see minimal degradation than "no signal", if you get my drift.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21299746
> 
> 
> Mobile is nowhere near 4mbps



According to Harris, a single M-DTV high quality channel will use 2.75 Mbps of bandwidth.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21299814
> 
> 
> According to Harris, a single M-DTV high quality channel will use 2.75 Mbps of bandwidth.



Most stations use 1.83 Mbps per channel.


- Trip


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21299889
> 
> 
> Most stations use 1.83 Mbps per channel.
> 
> 
> - Trip



At the rate things are going, I expect that will become the average for HD subchannels......


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scorpiontail60* /forum/post/21297901
> 
> 
> So much for CBS being the leader in HD picture quality



Not to start anything but WCBS news is like one of the clearest stations in HD maybe it's just moving to a 40" screen but the other HD channels look soft.


----------



## scorpiontail60




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21300027
> 
> 
> Not to start anything but WCBS news is like one of the clearest stations in HD maybe it's just moving to a 40" screen but the other HD channels look soft.



Duh. That's because its bitrate prior to this subchannel addition was 17 Mbps.


Now it's being dropped to 14 Mbps with the subchannel addition.


If they add a Mobile DTV feed it'll go down to 12 Mbps.


Want to know why the rest of the channels look like ****? WPIX is bitrate starved down to 10 Mbps so it's a macroblocked mess. NBC is in the same situation. As for the 720p channels, well, they're half the resolution of the 1080i channels so what do you expect? Even with a high bitrate they're not going to look great. Fox is @ 14 Mbps and it looks the best 720p is going to look. New York's ABC is no doubt the biggest disaster, seeing bitrates as low as 6 Mbps AND 720p.


That's why we're complaining. We don't want CBS to be turned into **** like all the other networks.


Of course, none of this would be a problem if affiliates would start to man up and broadcast using MPEG-4 which has been part of the ATSC standards since July 2008. The only reason they're still using the ancient 15 year old MPEG-2 codec is because they don't want to alienate a bunch of poors running garbage equipment that can only handle MPEG-2. They're afraid the public won't pay the $20 or whatever it'll cost for a H.264 converter box and as such we are all going to be stuck with this bitrate-starved MPEG-2 mess for the foreseeable future.


----------



## LenL

Great discussion.


All I can add is that it is very subjective to me.


My eyes see 11.1 news has much better picture quality than 5.1 news. Channel 11 has more subs: 11.1, 11.2, 11.3 and 11.4. Channel 5 has only 5.1 and 5.2. So why is 11.1 picture quality much better?


Channel 4 has subs 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4. 4.1 picture quality is also better than 5.1.


I see this on all 3 of my TV's. Is it a fact or is it simply my eyes are bad?


I love a great picture but even more I love great programming and lots of choice. It would be a perfect world to have great picture, great programming and lots of choice. I don't think we will ever see it for a number of reasons. What is great programming for one person is not so great for another. Some people are never satisfied that they have enough choices to view. Finally some people will never be satisfied with picture quality. Next people will be complaining that we are not getting 1080P broadcasts!


Look at where we were just a few years ago with analog broadcast TV. I like broadcast TV much better today!


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21299746
> 
> 
> Mobile is nowhere near 4mbps



You are mistaken.

Depending on the video quality desired by the station, M/H can occupy .917mbps, 1.83 mbps, 2.75 mbps, 3.667 mbps, 4.584 mbps, 5.501 mbps, 6.418 mbps or 7.334 mbps out of the 19.84 available payload.


What rate will be chosen by CBS if they ever go mobile is unknown but high quality mobile requires a minimum video bit rate of 768 kbps. Such video rate would lower the DTV 19.84 mbps channel capacity by 3.7-5.5 mbps to 13.9-15.7 mbps.


Additional loss by subchannels excluded from the above.


----------



## nyctveng

ok let me rephrase: no broadcaster is likely to use 4mbps for a mobile channel. right now few use more than 3.75mbps for a standard def channel. those that do dont have an hd channel on air. cbs will not take 20% of their spectrum to broadcast content to a fraction of 1% of audience.


----------



## DTVintermods

I cannot predict the future but if I could I'd say it is in robust as opposed to intermittent HD delivery to hand-held devices. That will require more than 386 kbps video.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21302569
> 
> 
> I cannot predict the future but if I could I'd say it is in robust as opposed to intermittent HD delivery to hand-held devices. That will require more than 386 kbps video.



My handheld device can get atsc streams from every dtv station plus the m/h streams where available. The m/h streams are viewable while in motion but getting the atsc streams requires being stationary. Do you think the % of viewers wanting HQ HD in motion will ever outweigh those wanting HQ HD on stationary devices?


----------



## DTVintermods

Let me guess.

When (not if) Verizon starts delivering HD quality sport programs, provided by its new cable allies, via wireless to bus/train/car riders with ipads....The eyeballs will come and broadcasters will have to compete. If I think further, same applies to all of us who want indoor reception in urban environment where dynamic multipath prevails even if you sit still.


What do you think will happen?


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21303944
> 
> 
> Let me guess.
> 
> When (not if) Verizon starts delivering HD quality sport programs, provided by its new cable allies, via wireless to bus/train/car riders with ipads....The eyeballs will come and broadcasters will have to compete. If I think further, same applies to all of us who want indoor reception in urban environment where dynamic multipath prevails even if you sit still.
> 
> 
> What do you think will happen?



You are right about mobile tablets, esp. in large cities with huge populations. I think free OTA terrestrial television will become an unprofitable business and eventually disappear, esp. as wireless companies buy up the spectrum.


----------



## DTVintermods

Broadcasters have a fair chance to call the shots and rule. The overwhelming advantage for broadcasters is that the delivery from one stick to millions is much cheaper than the one-on-one paradigm of the cellphone delivery.

To get to the promised land broadcasters could start with an ATSC 3.0 designed for real world reception and *keep the CEA out of the standard development process* (lesson learned).


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Let me guess.
> 
> When (not if) Verizon starts delivering HD quality sport programs, provided by its new cable allies, via wireless to bus/train/car riders with ipads....The eyeballs will come and broadcasters will have to compete. If I think further, same applies to all of us who want indoor reception in urban environment where dynamic multipath prevails even if you sit still.
> 
> 
> What do you think will happen?



Outside of live major sporting events, there is little appeal to broadcast linear content to mobile devices. Example: the failed FLO TV. Quality/bandwith of streaming will depend on device and available bandwidth at the time as it is today.


----------



## DTVintermods

Multiresolution channel and source coding, combined with hierarchical modulation to provide graceful degradation will determine the quality of the video stream in any given bandwidth.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21298968
> 
> 
> I think you don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> There is a direct relationship between bitrate and HD quality. It remains to be seen what CBS HD will look like after the subchannel is operational.



i live in new york you don't my man. so is the other way around. cbs2 pq with a sub is not going to make a huge difference that watchers are gonna say their picture looks crappy. take pix11 with 3 subs they're pq is still good. you need to be really nitpickin to notice a real difference. for most folks is not even discernable.


----------



## SnellKrell

Many of us are not "most folks" we are discerning, have calibrated HDTVs and

cannot only perceive differences is Picture Quality, but also are able to appreciate

high quality.


We also believe in science and that the world is round!


----------



## nycdigital09

what can i tell you, is only tv ota, is free. what do you want for free. if you want razor sharp pq. then move to japan.


----------



## DTVintermods

SnellKrell: Isn't the world slightly pear-shaped?

To the rest of your response, I'd say AMEN!


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21305275
> 
> 
> what can i tell you, is only tv ota, is free. what do you want for free. if you want razor sharp pq. then move to japan.



Originally Posted by Ken H

I think you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21305150
> 
> 
> i live in new york you don't my man. so is the other way around. cbs2 pq with a sub is not going to make a huge difference that watchers are gonna say their picture looks crappy. take pix11 with 3 subs they're pq is still good. you need to be really nitpickin to notice a real difference. for most folks is not even discernable.



Thank you for proving my point. Perhaps you forget this is a _High Definition Television_ forum, not a 'it looks Ok TV' forum.


By the way, according to your profile you don't live in New York either. Since my spouse is from Bergen County, New Jersey, I spend a good deal of time in the area, but in the context of this discussion, it's completely irrelevant where one lives.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21305150
> 
> 
> . take pix11 with 3 subs they're pq is still good. you need to be really nitpickin to notice a real difference. for most folks is not even discernable.



When there is fast motion on WPIX, it becomes a blurry mess. That's why I'm glad they don't have the OTA Yankees package. (Even though I grew up watching them on there)


And weren't you the one that said the station was going to switch to 720p about a year ago?


----------



## scorpiontail60




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21305150
> 
> 
> i live in new york you don't my man. so is the other way around. cbs2 pq with a sub is not going to make a huge difference that watchers are gonna say their picture looks crappy. take pix11 with 3 subs they're pq is still good. you need to be really nitpickin to notice a real difference. for most folks is not even discernable.



Are you kidding me? PIX 11 looks like ****.


I have access to the NY affiliate and a full bitrate 17 Mbps CW affiliate; the 17 Mbit affiliate kicks WPIX's macroblocked ass every day. WPIX is one of the worst looking 1080i channels I have seen.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21305275
> 
> 
> what can i tell you, is only tv ota, is free. what do you want for free. if you want razor sharp pq. then move to japan.



More like move to Europe. They're the only ones getting TV broadcasting right with the majority of channels using H.264. Japan is still stuck in the stone ages with the United States and using MPEG-2. I'll allow an exception for Japan's WOWOW channel which is uniquely high bitrate broadcasting MPEG-2 @ 20.50 Mbps.


----------



## DTVintermods

News from Europe:

Digital terrestrial television is by far the most important digital platform in France, with 62.6% of all viewers making use of this kind of reception. See
http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2011/...eme-in-france/ 


Why not here?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/21306733
> 
> 
> When there is fast motion on WPIX, it becomes a blurry mess. That's why I'm glad they don't have the OTA Yankees package. (Even though I grew up watching them on there)
> 
> 
> And weren't you the one that said the station was going to switch to 720p about a year ago?



WPIX has the Mets and when I had a chance (and my antenna could pull in 11.1) I would watch the Met games and the PQ was great. I did not see blurr. Often Blurr is a function of the TV performance. Besides 11.1 does not carry sports other than a few Mets games. 1080i quality even with the 3 subs is great.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21306688
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving my point. Perhaps you forget this is a _High Definition Television_ forum, not a 'it looks Ok TV' forum.
> 
> 
> By the way, according to your profile you don't live in New York either. Since my spouse is from Bergen County, New Jersey, I spend a good deal of time in the area, but in the context of this discussion, it's completely irrelevant where one lives.



Even with Subs all the main channels in the New York area look very very good. Not just OK. We have been discussing 11.1 for example. There are 3 subs and the PQ of 11.1 is excellent. HD is excellent.


Next time you are in the area check it out. I know this is somewhat subjective but I agree with NYCDIGITAL. Most people will not really see any degradation in PQ. More important to most of us is actually receiving a digital channel rock solid w/o pixillation and drop outs.


----------



## SnellKrell

"Most people will not really see any degradation in PQ."


This forum and thread are hardly for "most people."


Most people couldn't care less about about Picture Quality. Most people never appreciated the superiority of Beta vs. VHS. Many people with an HDTV set and HD cable service continue to watch in SD - a combination of ignorance and aparthy.


Ignorance can be bliss - so God bless!


But, there are those of us who are discerning, who do see the difference when a station chooses to add subchannels - and we don't like it!


If you and others are happy, don't see any difference fine - you're more than welcome to continue to enjoy what you see. Yes, it's all very subjective!


----------



## DTVintermods

Can someone with direct knowledge comment on whether (a) any station in NYC get more sales $$ for the subchannels and (b) what is the ratio of operating expense, programming & technical, of these subchannels relative to their added contribution to revenue.


----------



## kickass69

"Universal Sports is transitioning from an over-the-air multicast channel to what it calls a "multi-platform, high definition service" on pay television, starting in Jan. 2012." In other words, going cable/satellite/Fios/U-Verse only while getting rid of any OTA feeds it has with NBC stations.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art..._Air_Model.php 



Means 4.4 will be going bye bye. Who knows what or if anything will take it's place. I don't know anyone who has watched it for any length of time myself.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21307396
> 
> 
> Even with Subs all the main channels in the New York area look very very good. Not just OK. We have been discussing 11.1 for example. There are 3 subs and the PQ of 11.1 is excellent. HD is excellent. Next time you are in the area check it out.



I've seen it recently, in the last 90 days, and it's mediocre at best.



> Quote:
> Most people will not really see any degradation in PQ. More important to most of us is actually receiving a digital channel rock solid w/o pixillation and drop outs.



More important to who? This forum was created for the advancement of home use of audio and video equipment based on science. We advocate the best audio and video performance each member can afford. The fact 'most people' won't see any difference between an OTA channel with no subchannels and an OTA channel with 3 subchannels doesn't mean there isn't a substantial difference for discerning viewers.


Experience has taught us that differences of opinions regarding HD image quality is many times related to screen size and viewing distance from the screen. Most viewers don't sit anywhere near as close to the screen as HDTV is designed for, and simply don't see the digital artifacts others are complaining about. Not to mention the quality of the hardware used or set up issues.


----------



## LenL

"...This forum was created for the advancement of home use of audio and video equipment based on science. We advocate the best audio and video performance each member can afford."


Are you saying that dropouts, pixillation and reception issues are not part of the best audio and video equation for OTA?


I have a 32, 45 and 55 inch TV. They all tell me the PQ on 11.1 is better than the PQ on 5.1. Even though my signal strength on 5.1 can be 10 to 20 points higher.


----------



## SnellKrell

You have your opinions and we reject them!


----------



## George Molnar

I have sometimes noticed pixelization on the main HD channel but good reception on the SD sub channel(s) (but not always) and have wondered if that correlates with receiving signal strength (or maybe multipath). I figure that when the receiver decoder is loafing along (because the r.f. path is robust) the HD picture looks great, but if the decoder has to work harder, because there is multipath or less signal due to atmospheric conditions, then pixelization happens due to diminished "headroom." Has anyone else observed this or made this connection?? Could it be that some people see pixelization because of a poorer r.f. path when others don't because they have a better signal lock??


----------



## KyL416




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21307302
> 
> 
> News from Europe:
> 
> Digital terrestrial television is by far the most important digital platform in France, with 62.6% of all viewers making use of this kind of reception
> 
> 
> Why not here?



In Europe, their terrestrial lineups have channels that rival cable on a nationwide basis with all types of programs (general entertainment, kids, news, music videos, sports), and it isn't like one channel per broadcaster and subchannels, they have muxes that are shared among multiple and usually competing broadcasters. Some countries even have cheap subscription add on services that allow you to get channels like Nickelodeon, CNN, ESPN, MTV and Sky Sports. However in Europe over the air digital wasn't focusing on HD, most of it is SD widescreen, which allowed them to offer more channels. Terrestrial HD is relatively new in Europe, prior to a few years ago it was just one or two HD channels over the air and the rest were SD. Which is why it was easier for them to adopt MPEG4 for HD, while here they settled on MPEG2 over a decade ago.


In the USA it's just locals and whatever subchannels your local stations signed up with. In major markets like NYC with a lot of independent stations, you get a variety of subchannels, but in other markets it's just the HD feed of the main channels, a PBS subchannel or two, and one or two of the retro networks (Antenna, MeTV, ThisTV, RTV, etc).


----------



## SnellKrell

Ken H -


I think you'll appreciate this quote from Daniel Patrick Moynihan:


"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."


----------



## rothe

Just catching up to a few days of the recent discussion of bitrates, subchannels and picture quality. One issue that I haven't seen brought up is the consideration that a broadcaster's signal quality considerations probably don't have to target us, the over-the-air viewer. They have to target the majority of viewers, mostly over cable but to a lesser extent over fiber/FIOS. My understanding is that those carriers (cable, FIOS) get their source signals from OTA and feed them into their networks.


Considering the compression that happens to a cable signal, the broadcasters can certainly stand to give up a few mbps to additional channels without the average Joe - on cable - ever noticing.


----------



## icemannyr

I have to agree that WPIX-DT has the worst PQ of any broadcast channel in NYC.

Even when a show is just doing cuts with no transition effect the whole screen gets soft and macroblocks for a second before it gets clean again.


It's interesting that people are talking about how the WCBS-DT PQ will degrade when the SD sub channel starts broadcasting because over the last two years to me the PQ on WCBS-DT has already gone down.


My problem with WCBS-DT is when there is any movement of people or objects on screen they have noticeable macroblocking artifacts on and around them.

It's noticeable on the The Price Is Right, College Basketball and NFL broadcasts.


WNBC for about 2 years has had issues with a kind of step and repeat pattern of digital compression artifacts on any dark backgrounds on all programming.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21309566
> 
> 
> I have sometimes noticed pixelization on the main HD channel but good reception on the SD sub channel(s) (but not always) and have wondered if that correlates with receiving signal strength (or maybe multipath). I figure that when the receiver decoder is loafing along (because the r.f. path is robust) the HD picture looks great, but if the decoder has to work harder, because there is multipath or less signal due to atmospheric conditions, then pixelization happens due to diminished "headroom." Has anyone else observed this or made this connection?? Could it be that some people see pixelization because of a poorer r.f. path when others don't because they have a better signal lock??



I realize that this would only pertain to OTA viewers and that those with cable or satellite or FIOS or UVerse connections would not be affected by atmospherics or multipath induced pixelization.


----------



## DTVintermods

The answer to your question is that the higher the bit rate the higher number of errors. This is particularly noticeable when the SNR margin is low--usually due to multipath.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> WPIX has the Mets and when I had a chance (and my antenna could pull in 11.1) I would watch the Met games and the PQ was great. I did not see blurr. Often Blurr is a function of the TV performance. Besides 11.1 does not carry sports other than a few Mets games. 1080i quality even with the 3 subs is great.



That's because the Mets have nothing going on. If they had a real team that had base hits and runs scored, you'd see plenty of blur! Getting off topic here though!!!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "...This forum was created for the advancement of home use of audio and video equipment based on science. We advocate the best audio and video performance each member can afford."
> 
> 
> Are you saying that dropouts, pixillation and reception issues are not part of the best audio and video equation for OTA?
> 
> 
> I have a 32, 45 and 55 inch TV. They all tell me the PQ on 11.1 is better than the PQ on 5.1. Even though my signal strength on 5.1 can be 10 to 20 points higher.
> 
> 
> If you want to live in an unreal world where there are NO subs it isn't going to happen. We can all moan and complain about it or just enjoy the great PQ we are getting with or w/o subs.
> 
> 
> Also about this forum being created for whatever. It actually is a forum for people to express their opinions and provide great information from what I can see. It actually can't do anything about stations carrying subs and the picture impact imagined or otherwise if any. However it can help people who are having issues with picture dropouts, pixillation or just bad reception. That's the value of this forum.



Better signal strength doesnt equal better picture. An 85% signal strength on any given channel will give you same picture quality as 100% strength.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone with direct knowledge comment on whether (a) any station in NYC get more sales $$ for the subchannels and (b) what is the ratio of operating expense, programming & technical, of these subchannels relative to their added contribution to revenue.



There is no exact answer and it varies from station to station. A station like WMBC may be making millions leasing out sub channel space to 3rd party providers while having no part in the actual programming or content. Just simply retransmitting the channel. While a station like WNBC may be investing millions in NY non stop programming and barely breaking even. For WNYW/WWOR simulcasting each other, it's simply more over the air eyeballs (potential ratings) for those in fringe areas that can get the signal of 1 and not the other.


----------



## icemannyr

I have to revise my comments on WPIX-DT. Not sure when they made changes but the PQ has improved greatly.

Was watching the weather report on the 10pm newcast and when the maps did their transition animation the screen did not have the full blur and macroblocking it usually has.

Also the quick half second hits of macroblocking on the video have stopped.

I started to record WPIX at 10:30pm and was checking the highest bit rate for 11.1 and it got up to 16.3 mbps.


Here's two stills showing what the video quality is just after the news intro animation finishes and Jodi appears from December 2010 and Tonight


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21309406
> 
> 
> Are you saying that dropouts, pixillation and reception issues are not part of the best audio and video equation for OTA?



?


Where did you get this idea? Not from me. The answer should be obvious.



> Quote:
> I have a 32, 45 and 55 inch TV. They all tell me the PQ on 11.1 is better than the PQ on 5.1. Even though my signal strength on 5.1 can be 10 to 20 points higher.



?


Once a DTV tuner has signal lock, higher or lower signal strength makes zero difference in picture quality.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21309928
> 
> 
> My understanding is that those carriers (cable, FIOS) get their source signals from OTA and feed them into their networks.



Not always. In many cases pay providers get local HD via fiber feeds. The problem is the fiber feeds get the exact same distribution of bandwidth as OTA.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21311388
> 
> 
> I have to revise my comments on WPIX-DT. Not sure when they made changes but the PQ has improved greatly.
> 
> Was watching the weather report on the 10pm newcast and when the maps did their transition animation the screen did not have the full blur and macroblocking it usually has.
> 
> Also the quick half second hits of macroblocking on the video have stopped.
> 
> I started to record WPIX at 10:30pm and was checking the highest bit rate for 11.1 and it got up to 16.3 mbps.



16Mbps for 1080i can work well, with a good encoder, and especially on low motion content.


----------



## scorpiontail60




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21307302
> 
> 
> News from Europe:
> 
> Digital terrestrial television is by far the most important digital platform in France, with 62.6% of all viewers making use of this kind of reception. See
> http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2011/...eme-in-france/
> 
> 
> Why not here?



It's because the United States is a country ruled by a corporate oligarchy. AT&T, the cable companies, and the other telcos have corrupted the FCC into selling off wireless spectrum and shunning "free" TV. AT&T continues to make greedy grabs trying to buy up every piece of the wireless spectrum they can get their dirty paws on despite only using a fraction of it. The telcos claim there is a bandwidth "shortage" when it comes to wireless despite them sitting by idly on tons of it they aren't even using.


As a result of the telco company greed and there just isn't enough bandwidth allocated to television stations to broadcast over the air and the corrupt United States government is bent on taking more and more spectrum away from the already bandwidth-crunched OTA stations.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21311388
> 
> 
> I started to record WPIX at 10:30pm and was checking the highest bit rate for 11.1 and it got up to 16.3 mbps.



There is no way PIX has gotten up to 16.3 Mbps with 3 subchannels. That must be an error. I just examined their bitrate via TSReader for a few minutes - it remains at an average bitrate of 10 Mbps.


1080i MPEG-2 video @ 10 Mbps, I don't care how good the encoder is, is always going to be a macroblocked mess during any movement.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21311388
> 
> 
> I have to revise my comments on WPIX-DT. Not sure when they made changes but the PQ has improved greatly.
> 
> Was watching the weather report on the 10pm newcast and when the maps did their transition animation the screen did not have the full blur and macroblocking it usually has.
> 
> Also the quick half second hits of macroblocking on the video have stopped.
> 
> I started to record WPIX at 10:30pm and was checking the highest bit rate for 11.1 and it got up to 16.3 mbps.
> 
> 
> Here's two stills showing what the video quality is just after the news intro animation finishes and Jodi appears from December 2010 and Tonight



PQ is so much better than Fox news 5.1!


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21311026
> 
> 
> Better signal strength doesnt equal better picture. An 85% signal strength on any given channel will give you same picture quality as 100% strength.



The "strength" reading (for all but the best DTVs) mainly reports how hard the digital decoder is working. I've found that a "strength" number of 100 generally indicates the digital decoder is loafing along because it is receiving maximum SNR from the station. The "strength" number decreases as SNR decreases (or multipath increases) indicating the microprocessor is working harder to decoder the picture. Wouldn't that increase macroblocking on fast motion or scene changes because the microprocessor has a harder time keeping up? I imagine decoder designers have developed various circuits to minimize that overwhelming effect. That's why I thought that one viewer with a pristine SNR signal would report a better overall picture than another viewer with a marginal or degraded SNR signal watching the same station's programming.


----------



## Aero 1

take these numbers for what they are worth, but this is what my tivo's are reporting for bitrate on individual recordings and the average per channel.






































CBS is the best, ABC blows, and fox 5 and pix 11 are pretty high.


PS. post more pics of Jodi Applegate!!!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The "strength" reading (for all but the best DTVs) mainly reports how hard the digital decoder is working. I've found that a "strength" number of 100 generally indicates the digital decoder is loafing along because it is receiving maximum SNR from the station. The "strength" number decreases as SNR decreases (or multipath increases) indicating the microprocessor is working harder to decoder the picture. Wouldn't that increase macroblocking on fast motion or scene changes because the microprocessor has a harder time keeping up? I imagine decoder designers have developed various circuits to minimize that overwhelming effect. That's why I thought that one viewer with a pristine SNR signal would report a better overall picture than another viewer with a marginal or degraded SNR signal watching the same station's programming.



Macro blocking on fast motion scenes is caused by too little bandwith for content such as WPIX. Freeze ups, loss of picture is caused by multi path or low signal. Your picture "quality" is same if you get say 80 or 100% signal. In fact since it is digital, it is identical to what is leaving the station. Now the person with 80% signal may get occasional drop outs or freeze ups when weather is bad or tree closely is full of leaves while person with 100% signal may not experience that. But the picture quality on both remain the same. Same applies to satellite tv. One with 65% signal sees same picture quality as one with 100%. But the one with 65% will probably experience more rain fade.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scorpiontail60* /forum/post/21312047
> 
> 
> There is no way PIX has gotten up to 16.3 Mbps with 3 subchannels. That must be an error. I just examined their bitrate via TSReader for a few minutes - it remains at an average bitrate of 10 Mbps.
> 
> 
> 1080i MPEG-2 video @ 10 Mbps, I don't care how good the encoder is, is always going to be a macroblocked mess during any movement.



Bandwidth might be the same but there is a definite improvement in video quality with less macroblocking and blur on video transitions.


Here are the stats for the last half hour of the News at 10.


Duration: 0:30:00

Data Size: 1.98 GB

Bit Rate: 9.45 Mbps


Video Tracks:

2048 MPEG-2, 1920 × 1080, 16:9, 29.97 fps, 10.48 Mbps, upper field first


Audio Tracks:

2049 AC3 3/2, 48 kHz, 384 kbps


Stream Files:

Video.m2t (1.98 GB)


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21312390
> 
> 
> PQ is so much better than Fox news 5.1!



Are they ever going to get HD field cameras? I think last night or the night before they had a live shot out on the street my god it had to be the worst shot i've ever seen.. HD lower thirds but SD cam..


----------



## zoetmb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21309928
> 
> 
> Just catching up to a few days of the recent discussion of bitrates, subchannels and picture quality. One issue that I haven't seen brought up is the consideration that a broadcaster's signal quality considerations probably don't have to target us, the over-the-air viewer. They have to target the majority of viewers, mostly over cable but to a lesser extent over fiber/FIOS. My understanding is that those carriers (cable, FIOS) get their source signals from OTA and feed them into their networks.
> 
> 
> Considering the compression that happens to a cable signal, the broadcasters can certainly stand to give up a few mbps to additional channels without the average Joe - on cable - ever noticing.



No they do not get them OTA. They get direct feeds. Decades ago when Bill Paley was still alive, WCBS-TV refused to give the cable companies a direct feed. Bill Paley had cable and called the cable company to find out why WCBS-TV looked so bad. He was told, "no direct feed". The next day, they had their direct feed.


I get superb OTA reception. But you've really got to look close to see any difference between that and my cable reception (RCN). They're slightly different, but one is neither better nor worse than the other.


----------



## zoetmb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scorpiontail60* /forum/post/21312047
> 
> 
> It's because the United States is a country ruled by a corporate oligarchy. AT&T, the cable companies, and the other telcos have corrupted the FCC into selling off wireless spectrum and shunning "free" TV. AT&T continues to make greedy grabs trying to buy up every piece of the wireless spectrum they can get their dirty paws on despite only using a fraction of it. The telcos claim there is a bandwidth "shortage" when it comes to wireless despite them sitting by idly on tons of it they aren't even using.
> 
> 
> As a result of the telco company greed and there just isn't enough bandwidth allocated to television stations to broadcast over the air and the corrupt United States government is bent on taking more and more spectrum away from the already bandwidth-crunched OTA stations.



That's total crap. HD OTA stations have exactly the same bandwidth they always had. One can argue that U.S. OTA HD should have been given more bandwidth in the first place (just as one can argue that AM and FM should have been given wider channels), but while the SD to HD transition reallocated channels, no individual broadcaster is working with less bandwidth than they were originally intended to have for HD.


There is some talk about asking broadcasters to give up channels so there is more bandwidth available to the telcos, but that's just talk - it's never going to happen because in spite of the fact that only a small percentage of the population gets their signal OTA, it's politically untenable. That's why the SD sunset date was postponed three times. Maybe it would be reconsidered when cable/satellite/future web broadcasting penetration reaches well over 90%, but it won't happen before then. It would be considered an attack on poor people. Even a Republican administration wouldn't attempt it.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoetmb* /forum/post/21321563
> 
> 
> There is some talk about asking broadcasters to give up channels so there is more bandwidth available to the telcos, but that's just talk - it's never going to happen because in spite of the fact that only a small percentage of the population gets their signal OTA, it's politically untenable.



Which is, of course, why it's attached as a rider on the payroll tax bill, or will be soon. Never say never.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21313469
> 
> 
> Bandwidth might be the same but there is a definite improvement in video quality with less macroblocking and blur on video transitions.
> 
> 
> Here are the stats for the last half hour of the News at 10.
> 
> 
> Duration: 0:30:00
> 
> Data Size: 1.98 GB
> 
> Bit Rate: 9.45 Mbps
> 
> 
> Video Tracks:
> 
> 2048 MPEG-2, 1920 × 1080, 16:9, 29.97 fps, 10.48 Mbps, upper field first
> 
> 
> Audio Tracks:
> 
> 2049 AC3 3/2, 48 kHz, 384 kbps
> 
> 
> Stream Files:
> 
> Video.m2t (1.98 GB)



I noticed that 11.3, 11.4 is a better picture.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Here are some Broadcast TV application updates in New York City and throughout the market:

*WKOB-LD New York*, Channel 2: Nave's request to displace WKOB-LD to channel 42 running 1 kW from its present location on Lexington Ave. in Manhattan, NY. has been granted on November 14, 2011. The original request was filed on February 23, 2010, the same day their channel 2 facility was granted its license to cover. Nave cited technical reasons, specifically impulse noise, as reason to grant displacement. A subsequent application to increase power 10x on Channel 2 has been dismissed. They now have an active CP to build-out a Channel 42 facility.


While viewers in the New York City area have experienced difficulty receiving WKOB-LD on Channel 2, it should be noted that the station has occasionally been received well outside of its predicted coverage area. Viewers in Kansas and Florida have observed the low-power VHF-Lo station during certain atmospheric conditions.

*WEBR-CD Manhattan*, Channel 17: K Licensee, Inc. has filed a request to displace WEBR-CD to Channel 49. Either they want to run 15 kW or 1 kW, kind of hard to tell from the application, though I would presume 15 kW is what is intended, based on the prior application and permitted wattage on UHF.


The reason specified for displacement is: "because station WEBR-CD, channel 17, New York, NY, is located 132.23 kilometers from station WPHL-TV, channel 17, Philadelphia, PA, facility id no. 8616), this application to change the channel of WEBR-CD from 17 to 49 qualifies for displacement relief pursuant to the above-cited section of the commission's rules."


Interestingly, Richard Bogner, owner of Island Broadcasting out of Roslyn, NY. is listed as "consulting engineer" for this October 2011 application. Bogner has also dismissed his company's request to displace WNYZ-LP from Channel 6 to Channel 49 and now withdraws all objections to the WEBR-CD application requesting the same destination.

*WXNY-LD New York, et. al.*: Speaking of Bogner, it appears he has liquidated three of his LDs: WXNY-LD (32), WNYX-LD (35), and WNXY-LD (43), and the new licensee may not bring encouragement for TV viewers. Why? Their name is "New York Spectrum Holding Company". They are based out of Snoqualmie, Washington. The three stations presently are silent due to an STA which specifies: "pending review by the new licensee (effective 10/18/2011) of all equipment for four collocated stations after failure of the power supply at WNYX-LD, fac. id 29236." Viewers should probably hope that there really is a power supply failure in this case.

*WNJJ-LD Paterson*, Channel 41: Venture Technologies Group has requested an STA to remain silent.


Venture reports: "The station went off the air on 09/22/2011 due to technical problems and is expected to remain off the air for an as-yet indeterminate period of time. The licensee respectfully notifies the commission of the station's suspension of operation and requests special temporary authority for the station to remain silent."


There is an earlier application filed in August 2011 to displace the station to Channel 46. Specifically, "WNJJ-LD, channel 41, Paterson, NJ is displaced by WVIA-TV, channel 41, Scranton, (PA). because it is located just 109 km from WVIA-TV. as a displacement relief, WNJJ-LD proposed to move to channel 46."


BTW, their application erroneously places Scranton in Virginia







I guess you can't hold it against a California company to be familiar with such North-East geographic specifics.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoetmb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is some talk about asking broadcasters to give up channels so there is more bandwidth available to the telcos, but that's just talk - it's never going to happen because in spite of the fact that only a small percentage of the population gets their signal OTA, it's politically untenable. That's why the SD sunset date was postponed three times. Maybe it would be reconsidered when cable/satellite/future web broadcasting penetration reaches well over 90%, but it won't happen before then. It would be considered an attack on poor people. Even a Republican administration wouldn't attempt it.



There is not some talk. There is A LOT of talk and it will happen. Multichannel video (cable, satellite) has already reached 90% penetration and has peaked. More people are moving towards broadband delivery of video whether wired or wireless and that's where part of the need for more spectrum comes in. The need is not immediate tho the telcos try to make govern,government believe otherwise. There will be a spectrum shortage a few years from now.


Broadcasters will have to share spectrum (several down converted SD channels on one 6mhz channel), or given financial incentives to give up their spectrum. My guess that will likely happen in smaller markets first and big markets like NYC, LA,Chicago last if at all. This is not an attack on poor people. Part of the discussions if free OTA goes away is for government to subsidize lifeline cable for those that can't afford it.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21327587
> 
> 
> Multichannel video (cable, satellite) has already reached 90% penetration and has peaked. More people are moving towards broadband delivery of video whether wired or wireless and that's where part of the need for more spectrum comes in. The need is not immediate tho the telcos try to make govern,government believe otherwise. There will be a spectrum shortage a few years from now.



Maybe so, but the inevitable problem that the telcos, federal government, and other proponents of appropriating spectrum from broadcasters fail to acknowledge at all costs is the fact that desirable spectrum is a finite resource. Should spectrum demand continue to increase at the rate those groups suggest, there will reach a point of capacity.


At that point, one of two things will happen:


1. More sophisticated compression will be developed and implemented and be mandated for use on the spectrum.


2. Restrictions placed on downloads such as content, file size, web site type, etc.


Even with these stop-guards, drop-outs will still occur. I am not an engineer, but I do not believe it is possible to migrate an entire population or even a significant portion thereof over to a mobile broadband platform without placing significant stresses on the cellular infrastructure.


And notice in the two options I listed that government mandates would be a necessity and not a luxury. Limits of this nature would definitely lead to first amendment legal challenges by individuals and groups.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21327587
> 
> 
> Broadcasters will have to share spectrum (several down converted SD channels on one 6mhz channel), or given financial incentives to give up their spectrum. My guess that will likely happen in smaller markets first and big markets like NYC, LA,Chicago last if at all. This is not an attack on poor people. Part of the discussions if free OTA goes away is for government to subsidize lifeline cable for those that can't afford it.



It should be noted that in the earlier discussion, some ION channels have been experimenting with H.264/MPEG-4 signals. Of course, I will defer to the broadcast engineers on this hypothesis, but what may be down the pike is a more sophisticated compression technique that would allow broadcasters to modify existing plants to that or a similar compression method. If this could be done successfully, broadcasters might be able to replicate existing A/V services on a smaller portion of spectrum. Of course, this does not contemplate Mobile DTV or other ancillary services which I'm sure some broadcasters wish to proceed with. Nor does it contemplate another transition of sorts requiring the government to pay for compatible converters to decode a different broadcast standard.


Subsidizing basic Cable TV has been discussed, but of course with all things government, there exists the possibility of fraud and over-billing. Then it has to be determined whether any "profit" off of a spectrum auction would be severely compromised by having to subsidize the population, and the government would have no choice but to do so. If this were the case, would it make economic sense to go ahead in the first place? This is not an immediate issue seeing as the fcc is only gunning for RF 31 - 51 for now.


My position now as it has been for well over a year is that broadcasters must not involuntarily relinquish even 1 MHz. of spectrum. That said, there are some broadcasters who probably are sitting and waiting for the opportunity to cash in, such as the NYSHC who recently acquired three of the Island LDs. I still feel the NAB is not doing enough to get the right message out and alert the viewing public.


OTOH, no one has yet to address the fact that spectrum is finite and eventually - despite all the legislation, eminent domain proceedings, evictions, etc. - that resource will run out. By that point, the spectrum may be such a fragmented hodge-podge that it will make the present situation on the upper-end of the AM band seem like a non-issue.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zoetmb* /forum/post/21321534
> 
> 
> No they do not get them OTA. They get direct feeds. Decades ago when Bill Paley was still alive, WCBS-TV refused to give the cable companies a direct feed. Bill Paley had cable and called the cable company to find out why WCBS-TV looked so bad. He was told, "no direct feed". The next day, they had their direct feed.
> 
> 
> I get superb OTA reception. But you've really got to look close to see any difference between that and my cable reception (RCN). They're slightly different, but one is neither better nor worse than the other.



Cable systems might get direct feeds but at least with FiOS it's the same quality as OTA.


It would be great if the broadcasters would send feeds without the sub channels to the cable systems and let them do the encoding of the HD feeds.


----------



## speedlaw

thanks to the posters who posted the bitrates. I've noted ABC looks like a** compared to clear as a bell CBS. This OTA on a 50 inch plasma.


ABC is so bad my cable co feed is better than OTA.... curse you, Living Well HD waste of bandwidth.


----------



## AloEuro

Full or ADD on Scan and 4more ch. to 56ch. on 23- 1,2,3,4

of 3 programs - 1 Spanish 2 India- sitcoms, movies musicals, gangster etc.

23-1 MX MexiCanal 704x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo spanish

23-2 the same as above

23-3 SAB 704x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo sabasia.TV mostly indian

23-4 MATV 704x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo Indian


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thanks to the posters who posted the bitrates. I've noted ABC looks like a** compared to clear as a bell CBS. This OTA on a 50 inch plasma.
> 
> 
> ABC is so bad my cable co feed is better than OTA.... curse you, Living Well HD waste of bandwidth.



For it's low bite rate, ABC looks decent. A lot better than when LWN first launched. Feed to cable company is identical to OTA transmitter so I don't see how it looks better than OTA to you.


----------



## Keith

CBS Television Stations today announced that it has signed an agreement to purchase independent WLNY New York (TV55/10) and operate it in a duopoly with flagship WCBS.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/21337264
> 
> 
> CBS Television Stations today announced that it has signed an agreement to purchase independent WLNY New York (TV55/10) and operate it in a duopoly with flagship WCBS.



What will happen to the tv55 programing?


----------



## StudioTech

This more than likely means that the station will finally get upgraded to HD.


----------



## DTVintermods

SMART move. They will move to a lower channel and upgrade the transmission facilities ending with more coverage for WCBS and a great return on their investment.


----------



## SnellKrell

To which "lower channel" would WLNY move?


"More coverage for WCBS"? Are you suggesting that WCBS programming would appear on a WLNY sub-channel?


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21340991
> 
> 
> To which "lower channel" would WLNY move?
> 
> 
> "More coverage for WCBS"? Are you suggesting that WCBS programming would appear on a WLNY sub-channel?



Why not?


----------



## SnellKrell

Would help with WCBS's Long Island signal problems - but only in SD.


Have heard nothing about the long-planned WCBS, Channel 22 facility being operational.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21341126
> 
> 
> Would help with WCBS's Long Island signal problems - but only in SD.



Will also help in CT across from LI (same coverage problems).


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21339126
> 
> 
> What will happen to the tv55 programing?



Many of the shows airing on 55 are syndicated by CBS. Those are very likely to remain. Local news will be expanded -- currently it is just the half hour at 11pm, 5 days a week. I'm guessing they will offer news at times when CBS2 does not. I am also guessing that much of the paid programming will will be replaced with more interesting content. In the past, when a major news story preempted a sporting event on ch 2, live coverage of the game shifted to WLNY.


Look at what has happened to KCAL 9 in LA after CBS bought that station. They offer a midday news, mid afternoon news, news during all of prime time and lots of syndicated shows.


I'm wondering about CBSNY+ and if it will ever get off the ground "by the end of the year" and especially their plans for a repeater on ch 22 on Long Island.


----------



## kickass69

What if CBS bought WLNY to put on 2.2 and make it CBSNY+? Or make WLNY in general 2.2 for the rest of us who can't receive it OTA.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/21344426
> 
> 
> What if CBS bought WLNY to put on 2.2 and make it CBSNY+? Or make WLNY in general 2.2 for the rest of us who can't receive it OTA.



Not sure I follow -- do you mean taking the programming from WLNY and putting it on 2.2? Much of the programming on WLNY is syndicated by CBS. If the really wanted it, I guess they could get it back without buying the station.


If you mean putting the planned news channel on WLNY -- that would give them cable coverage, but only a fraction of over the air coverage. And they would give up revenue from the syndicated programs.


I *think* what will happen is similar to how CBS operates KCAL 9 in Los Angeles. The station is heavy on news in the afternoons and prime time. Syndicated shows other times during the day and some infomercials at night.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21344515
> 
> 
> I *think* what will happen is similar to how CBS operates KCAL 9 in Los Angeles. The station is heavy on news in the afternoons and prime time. Syndicated shows other times during the day and some infomercials at night.



This. For the longest time, CBS has wanted a KCAL East.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21339126
> 
> 
> What will happen to the tv55 programing?



Likely the WLNY-TV programming will become substantially improved.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21344183
> 
> 
> Many of the shows airing on 55 are syndicated by CBS. Those are very likely to remain. Local news will be expanded -- currently it is just the half hour at 11pm, 5 days a week. I'm guessing they will offer news at times when CBS2 does not. I am also guessing that much of the paid programming will will be replaced with more interesting content. In the past, when a major news story preempted a sporting event on ch 2, live coverage of the game shifted to WLNY.
> 
> 
> Look at what has happened to KCAL 9 in LA after CBS bought that station. They offer a midday news, mid afternoon news, news during all of prime time and lots of syndicated shows.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering about CBSNY+ and if it will ever get off the ground "by the end of the year" and especially their plans for a repeater on ch 22 on Long Island.



While I typically do not support mega corporations buying out local independents (i.e. FOX buying WWOR-TV) or independents contracting with networks (i.e. WPIX) because those moves tend to reduce independent voices, this acquisition is an exception to that woeful standard.


CBS as a broadcasting company is faring much better than all of their competition on multiple platforms.


Their radio division has recently made some good acquisitions (i.e. an FM in the Baltimore-Washington, DC market); development of a new FM News operation in that same market it hopes to expand to other markets over time; maintaining top-rated and top-billing AMs in New York City at a time when AM stations nationally and internationally are faltering and losing appeal to all but an upper-end demographic; and maintaining successful radio operations in major markets throughout the U.S.


Their broadcast television division is doing phenomenally well. CBS has been so dominant in the ratings for the young fall television season that it has accomplished something no network in history has ever done before. According to Nielsen figures for the first three weeks of the season -- Sept. 19 through Oct. 9 -- CBS has 20 of the top 30 shows on broadcast, in terms of total viewers. That feat has never been done before, according to a report in the New York Times. CBS also ranks as the top network in the 18-49 demographic. The network’s powerhouse procedurals “NCIS,” with an average of 18.7 million viewers, and “NCIS: L.A.,” with 15.4 million, are leading the way for CBS.


This is a sound business decision and CBS is a very responsible licensee. This news should be received as encouraging on both a programming and technical level.


The present WLNY-TV schedule is a hodge-podge of after-run movies and syndicated shows, infomercials, and one 11PM weeknight newscast. Despite it being an "Independent", it hardly focuses on its COL or Long Island.


WCBS-TV, on the other hand, has a huge news operation and recently reinvested in a complete overhaul of their news set. They have a very large news staff with many professional on-air anchors and reporters. They maintain a Long Island bureau. And whatever resources the TV station may be lacking, they have immediate unencumbered access to the news-gathering resources of their local radio division through WFAN (660 AM), WCBS (880 AM), and WINS (1010 AM). Because of these powerful resources and their heavy concentration on New York City, CBS will be able to concentrate WLNY-TV Riverhead to the Long Island communities it was originally intended to serve.


Technically this presents many benefits as well. As others have pointed out, adding WCBS-TV to a subchannel on WLNY-TV would allow CBS to fill-in the reception gaps presently experienced by OTA viewers of WCBS-TV on Long Island and certain areas of Connecticut. This interference is caused by WFSB-TV Hartford also licensed to operate on Channel 33. Another benefit could be realized by CBS upgrading the WLNY-TV signal to HD. Finally, because CBS is constantly improving their broadcast product, the Channel 47 operation will probably be much safer from becoming a "spectrum-crunch" casualty than had it remained under its present ownership.


Their construction permit for the low-power Channel 22 operation remains outstanding. That issue has been status-quo for about two years now. Perhaps this acquisition will render that proposed operation redundant and open Channel 22 to other opportunities, hopefully for broadcast TV.


There does remain an unanswered question: What will become of three translators presently owned and operated by WLNY-TV? Those translators are: WLNY-CD Mineola, Channel 45; WLIG-LD Morristown, Channel 17; and W27CD Stamford, Channel 27 (presently an analog translator with a CP to move to channel 43 and build out a digital translator) All of these stations presently relay WLNY-TV Riverhead.


----------



## LenL

Thanks for all of your info and insight! Great reading!


One comment or correction to your info. I live about 7 miles from WLIG-LD Morristown, Channel 17 and I have never seen it operational on my TV equipment.


----------



## AloEuro

I wonder where from Aliento comes from, what -where - who is their flagship broadcaster.

63-7 Aliento. spanish


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21305226
> 
> 
> Many of us are not "most folks" we are discerning, have calibrated HDTVs and
> 
> cannot only perceive differences is Picture Quality, but also are able to appreciate
> 
> high quality.
> 
> 
> We also believe in science and that the world is round!



In my world the earth is always flat, the only time it is somehow round is after the moonshine


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21345919
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of your info and insight! Great reading!
> 
> 
> One comment or correction to your info. I live about 7 miles from WLIG-LD Morristown, Channel 17 and I have never seen it operational on my TV equipment.



Thanks! I'm glad you found my extrapolation informative.


Question: Do you reside within the area depicted on this map?

WLIG-LD Morristown, Channel 17 - Predicted Coverage Area 


According to current fcc records, this 1 kW station should be operational.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21349038
> 
> 
> Hey Len,
> 
> 
> Thanks! I'm glad you found my extrapolation informative.
> 
> 
> Question: Do you reside within the area depicted on this map?
> 
> WLIG-LD Morristown, Channel 17 - Predicted Coverage Area
> 
> 
> According to current fcc records, this 1 kW station should be operational.



This map shows how misleading the FCC can be to broadcasters and consumers.

If you look into the FCC file of WLIG you'll find that the peak of its very directional azimuth pattern is toward 325 deg. That is where the 1kW is fired. But in that radial the antenna height is -3.7 meters! In the opposite sector of of 70-230 deg the radiated power is only between 12 and 58 watts! So don't expect to receive this signal anywhere.

So what is so wrong with the FCC prediction algorithm? A lot, not the least of which is that the actual terrain is ignored in the contour calculation. That's why the contour and the azimuth patterns in the same FCC file appear like they were mistakenly flipped over...


I wonder if they have any revenue or this is spectrum warehousing.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21349038
> 
> 
> Hey Len,
> 
> 
> Thanks! I'm glad you found my extrapolation informative.
> 
> 
> Question: Do you reside within the area depicted on this map?
> 
> WLIG-LD Morristown, Channel 17 - Predicted Coverage Area
> 
> 
> According to current fcc records, this 1 kW station should be operational.



Yes, I live well within the range of the coverage map.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This map shows how misleading the FCC can be to broadcasters and consumers.
> 
> If you look into the FCC file of WLIG you'll find that the peak of its very directional azimuth pattern is toward 325 deg. That is where the 1kW is fired. But in that radial the antenna height is -3.7 meters! In the opposite sector of of 70-230 deg the radiated power is only between 12 and 58 watts! So don't expect to receive this signal anywhere.
> 
> So what is so wrong with the FCC prediction algorithm? A lot, not the least of which is that the actual terrain is ignored in the contour calculation. That's why the contour and the azimuth patterns in the same FCC file appear like they were mistakenly flipped over...
> 
> 
> I wonder if they have any revenue or this is spectrum warehousing.



Possibly just enough power to get signal to a comcast headend to gain cable carriage


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21351013
> 
> 
> This map shows how misleading the FCC can be to broadcasters and consumers.
> 
> If you look into the FCC file of WLIG you'll find that the peak of its very directional azimuth pattern is toward 325 deg. That is where the 1kW is fired. But in that radial the antenna height is -3.7 meters! In the opposite sector of of 70-230 deg the radiated power is only between 12 and 58 watts! So don't expect to receive this signal anywhere.
> 
> So what is so wrong with the FCC prediction algorithm? A lot, not the least of which is that the actual terrain is ignored in the contour calculation. That's why the contour and the azimuth patterns in the same FCC file appear like they were mistakenly flipped over...



It appears this FCC map is one of the ones with the bug where it ignores the directional pattern. Mine is better.

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1234830&map=Y 


That said, the contour lines aren't terribly accurate over rough terrain in the first place. They do, technically, take terrain into account, just not very well. Bear in mind that system was developed in the 1950s when computers couldn't generate coverage maps the way they do today.


As for the signal in question, I, too, have never observed it on the air. I've seen signal on 17 on I-287 near Morristown, but it was WPHL. It may be there but I've never seen it.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods

I don't see how your map is much different from the FCC's. Your calculation is the same--ignoring the terrain. AS I wrote, there are only few watts fired toward the E-S-W based on the directional pattern and the 1kw is fired into the ridge(?) to the NW. Either way you map shows an unattainable service just like the FCC's.


The FCC(50,90) which I believe you used DO NOT take local terrain into account, technically or otherwise. They use HAAT which is meaningless in rough terrain vs azimuth variations. Actually, HAAT is meaningless regardless.


----------



## rChaz

Since CBS started testing their 2.2 subchannel a couple weeks ago I started having problems receiving TV Guide On Screen data for EPGs (broadcast in NYC by CBS.) First I lost the TV Guide analog data feed obtained from a DTVPal+ digital to analog converter box (in guide mode.) Then on a separate device, the DTVPal DVR, I lost the TV Guide digital feed to the electronic programming guide. For the DVR EPG, the TV Guide logo stopped displaying & I just have limited PSIP EPG info. For the digital to analog converter box in guide mode, there is no data stream at all.


Does anyone else have this issue, and does anyone have advice for contacting the CBS engineering/support teams?


----------



## SnellKrell

For those of you who can't get enough sub-channels, just found a new one -

47.2 "Exitos" which appears to be Telemundo 2.


It's broadcasting 4:3, 480i.


Enjoy!!!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rChaz* /forum/post/21354728
> 
> 
> Since CBS started testing their 2.2 subchannel a couple weeks ago I started having problems receiving TV Guide On Screen data for EPGs (broadcast in NYC by CBS.) First I lost the TV Guide analog data feed obtained from a DTVPal+ digital to analog converter box (in guide mode.) Then on a separate device, the DTVPal DVR, I lost the TV Guide digital feed to the electronic programming guide. For the DVR EPG, the TV Guide logo stopped displaying & I just have limited PSIP EPG info. For the digital to analog converter box in guide mode, there is no data stream at all.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue, and does anyone have advice for contacting the CBS engineering/support teams?



Yes I have been having the same issue. I did not connect the dots with 2.2 being the issue but you may be on to something.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rChaz* /forum/post/21354728
> 
> 
> Since CBS started testing their 2.2 subchannel a couple weeks ago I started having problems receiving TV Guide On Screen data for EPGs (broadcast in NYC by CBS.) First I lost the TV Guide analog data feed obtained from a DTVPal+ digital to analog converter box (in guide mode.) Then on a separate device, the DTVPal DVR, I lost the TV Guide digital feed to the electronic programming guide. For the DVR EPG, the TV Guide logo stopped displaying & I just have limited PSIP EPG info. For the digital to analog converter box in guide mode, there is no data stream at all.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue, and does anyone have advice for contacting the CBS engineering/support teams?




"Be Careful What You Wish For..."


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rChaz* /forum/post/21354728
> 
> 
> Since CBS started testing their 2.2 subchannel a couple weeks ago I started having problems receiving TV Guide On Screen data for EPGs (broadcast in NYC by CBS.) First I lost the TV Guide analog data feed obtained from a DTVPal+ digital to analog converter box (in guide mode.) Then on a separate device, the DTVPal DVR, I lost the TV Guide digital feed to the electronic programming guide. For the DVR EPG, the TV Guide logo stopped displaying & I just have limited PSIP EPG info. For the digital to analog converter box in guide mode, there is no data stream at all.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue, and does anyone have advice for contacting the CBS engineering/support teams?



Have you tried a factory reset? Then wait a few hours. Take a few hours to download tvgos again. If I remember correctly. If TVGOS is not found for 72 hours on the Dish DVR. It stops looking. A reset will fix it. This is the only way tot find out if CBS fixed the issue. I bet they knew about it


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21341309
> 
> 
> Will also help in CT across from LI (same coverage problems).



I don't understand so does this mean WCBS will be having WLNY here? I already can't get WLNY as it is now so I don't miss much but sometimes they do have older shows I would like to see.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rChaz* /forum/post/21354728
> 
> 
> Since CBS started testing their 2.2 subchannel a couple weeks ago I started having problems receiving TV Guide On Screen data for EPGs (broadcast in NYC by CBS.) First I lost the TV Guide analog data feed obtained from a DTVPal+ digital to analog converter box (in guide mode.) Then on a separate device, the DTVPal DVR, I lost the TV Guide digital feed to the electronic programming guide. For the DVR EPG, the TV Guide logo stopped displaying & I just have limited PSIP EPG info. For the digital to analog converter box in guide mode, there is no data stream at all.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue, and does anyone have advice for contacting the CBS engineering/support teams?



A few other CBS O&O's have also dropped TVGOS. It apparently causes a problem. Here is what the chief in Detroit said, back in the beginning of October:


> Quote:
> The TV Guide encoders have been taken off line due to problems they are causing in the WWJ-TV transmission.
> 
> 
> We do not have a timetable for the return of the service.
> 
> 
> We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused


----------



## DTVintermods

SubaroB4:

Probably, although I cannot speak for WCBS. I believe their intention is to provide solid WCBS coverage using WLNY in northern LI and southern CT where WCBS coverage from the Empire State Bldg is now poor. Even if they succeed in upgrading their ESB facility it still would be an excellent idea to use WLNY because it will provide a great extension to WCBS. There's no downside here.


----------



## SnellKrell

If WCBS were to use WLNY in its problem reception areas, it would be by way of a sub-channel in SD.


It would help, but the viewers would continue to be deprived of a WCBS HD signal.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21359468
> 
> 
> If WCBS were to use WLNY in its problem reception areas, it would be by way of a sub-channel in SD.
> 
> 
> It would help, but the viewers would continue to be deprived of a WCBS HD signal.



Not if CBS chose to follow the ABC model


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21360178
> 
> 
> Not if CBS chose to follow the ABC model



Don't give them any ideas, please!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/21360216
> 
> 
> Don't give them any ideas, please!



To clarify, I meant that CBS upon acquisition could upgrade the WLNY-TV signal to carry both WLNY-TV and WCBS-TV in HD, similar to the ABC model.


I see no merit to doing the reverse for two important reasons:


1. CBS apparently has already settled on CBSNY+ being delivered over WCBS-TV 2-2.


2. WLNY-TV already has very good Pay-TV penetration.


In addition, the signal is presently replicated over WLNY-CD Mineola and W27CD Stamford, the former has been confirmed on the air and the latter is presumably on the air and has an outstanding CP to construct a DTV translator on Channel 43. Whether these channels will continue to relay WLNY-TV after acquisition remains uncertain, as does ownership of these channels for that matter.


I do not see any legitimate reason to further adulterate the bitrate situation on WCBS-TV once 2-2 becomes active.


However, the WLNY-TV signal, which is presently a singular 3:4 SD feed and a mobile DTV feed, could be substantially improved while simultaneously providing an added valued service to certain parts of Long Island and portions of Connecticut whose OTA TV viewers presently are deprived of reliable service from Channel 33 in New York due to short-spacing with Channel 33 in Hartford.


----------



## SnellKrell

WABC uses 720p for its transmission of its "Dual HD" signals.


WCBS transmits at 1080i, only 7 stations in the country use a combination of 1080i and 720p for "Dual HD" (thank you Trip) and they are all in small markets - I imagine with good reason!


Quietly, there are many at Channel 2 who are upset with the addition of 2.2 and its expected degradation of 2.1's gorgious signal.


----------



## DTVintermods

Let's hope WCBS is experimenting statistical multiplexing of 2.2 when 2.1 is transmitting HD sports and using two 50" screens side-by-side. That will show the tradeoff. My view is that you can win one or the other, not both.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rChaz* /forum/post/21354728
> 
> 
> Since CBS started testing their 2.2 subchannel a couple weeks ago I started having problems receiving TV Guide On Screen data for EPGs (broadcast in NYC by CBS.) First I lost the TV Guide analog data feed obtained from a DTVPal+ digital to analog converter box (in guide mode.) Then on a separate device, the DTVPal DVR, I lost the TV Guide digital feed to the electronic programming guide. For the DVR EPG, the TV Guide logo stopped displaying & I just have limited PSIP EPG info. For the digital to analog converter box in guide mode, there is no data stream at all.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue, and does anyone have advice for contacting the CBS engineering/support teams?



Yes I checked with my Aunt and she also LOST the TVGUIDE logo which means NO TVGoS

*Does anyone know if CBS has fixed their TVGOS stream or is it still down*. I do not want to walk her through a factory reset if CBS TVGOS is still down.


Unfortunately the dish DVR box that she has stops looking for TVGOS signal after 3 days. Which I feel is totally stupid.


Thanks guys,


Happy Holidays!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21366621
> 
> 
> *Does anyone know if CBS has fixed their TVGOS stream or is it still down*. I do not want to walk her through a factory reset if CBS TVGOS is still down.



I haven't heard otherwise.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21366664
> 
> 
> I haven't heard otherwise.



Ok Because I will have a hard time explaining to my aunt on how to do it. She is not great at electronics. Also the 1+ hour drive is not easy.


So I would like to wait till I know for sure that CBS put it back up.


Do we know if they took it down permanently or just to work on new sub-channel?


Has anyone contacted the engineers? Would anyone have that contact info and I will also send out an email.


No TVGOS creates many problems for the dish box my Aunt has. Forget about 1 week worth of program info. The correct time goes out of whack with PSIP


As I stated her box stops looking after 3 days. I have no idea what kind of fool programed it that way. So even if CBS is back up. I would have no way of knowing. Till I did a factory reset.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21366771
> 
> 
> 
> Do we know if they took it down permanently or just to work on new sub-channel?



It's not known if the removal of TVGOS is permanent at this time, but it's not related to the subchannel.



> Quote:
> Has anyone contacted the engineers?



See my comment from the 16th.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21366803
> 
> 
> It's not known if the removal of TVGOS is permanent at this time, but it's not related to the subchannel.
> 
> 
> See my comment from the 16th.



Ok but that is Detroit correct?


What does that have to do with NY? I think it is just a coincidence that TVGOS goes down at the same time work is being preformed for new 2.2.


I would like to find CBS NY engineers contact info


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21366851
> 
> 
> Ok but that is Detroit correct?
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with NY?



Both stations are CBS owned and operated, not just affiliated stations. There are over 200 CBS affiliated stations across the country. CBS actually owns 16 of them, including WCBS in NYC and WWJ in Detroit. All CBS O&O's answer to the same management in NYC.



> Quote:
> I think it is just a coincidence that TVGOS goes down at the same time work is being preformed for new 2.2.



Yes, it is a just a coincidence.


In any event I'll ask my sources at CBS and see if there is any information available.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21366897
> 
> 
> 
> In any event I'll ask my sources at CBS and see if there is any information available.



That would be very much appreciated. I am the lead (only) tec for my Aunt. I helped her out to get her set with OTA. Since she only has OTA. TVGoS is very important to her.


Maybe if you tell your sources that the lack of TVGOS is affecting the elderly. We might get a faster response.


Thanks in advance


----------



## jpru34

Does anybody know if Channel 11 has been doing any work these last couple of weeks? Last week reception was poorer than usual and now all of a sudden I am receiving it at 100% signal strength (something that I never have had happen before)? Please note that I am comparing signal strength on clear days with the same weather conditions and the leaves were all done falling a while back so that is why I just don't think that it is "atmospherics" or weather but I thought it was worth asking anyways. Happy holidays to all!


----------



## yobiworld

Telemundo has sub channels now 17.2


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld* /forum/post/21368611
> 
> 
> Telemundo has sub channels now 17.2



Don't you mean 47.2?


Look at Posting #15056 on 12/15.


----------



## rChaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21366621
> 
> *Does anyone know if CBS has fixed their TVGOS stream or is it still down*.



I tried the Dish DTVPal DVR factory reset yesterday, just to be sure, and the TV Guide feed is still missing.


I also received an email response from the WCBS-TV Public Affairs Coordinator, who claims "I'm told that we no longer support this TV Guide information. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope this is not true, or at the minimum another local station such as PBS will pick this feed up. Rovi?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rChaz* /forum/post/21368870
> 
> 
> I tried the Dish DTVPal DVR factory reset yesterday, just to be sure, and the TV Guide feed is still missing.
> 
> 
> I also received an email response from the WCBS-TV Public Affairs Coordinator, who claims "I’m told that we no longer support this TV Guide information. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope this is not true, or at the minimum another local station such as PBS will pick this feed up. Rovi?



OMG that would be a disaster. Could you PM or post the e-mail or link. I would also like to contact them. I will also share the response.


Did they give NO reason to why?


NY is a major city and needs TVGOS


If true CBS just rendered DVR boxes for OTA as a doorstop. PSIP is terrible and you can not set up recording that way. 1 week is just about good enough


Has anyone contacted TVguide? Maybe they have an answer to what is going on. I will try to find contact info for them


----------



## AloEuro

Since wCBS 2-1 started messing with 2-2, the 2-1 suffers with too high signal fluctuation hitting bottom 0, giving pixelation - causing annoyance, short temper, reaching for Remote - see you maybe, God willing in few days


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rChaz* /forum/post/21368870
> 
> 
> I tried the Dish DTVPal DVR factory reset yesterday, just to be sure, and the TV Guide feed is still missing.
> 
> 
> I also received an email response from the WCBS-TV Public Affairs Coordinator, who claims "I'm told that we no longer support this TV Guide information. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope this is not true, or at the minimum another local station such as PBS will pick this feed up. Rovi?



i have no idea if this is connected or not, but rovi, who owns tvgos pulled the tv guide widget from TV manufacturers (yahoo connected tv) last month. it had a statement saying that the owner had pulled the widget.


maybe rovi is rethinking their business model.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21369030
> 
> 
> i have no idea if this is connected or not, but rovi, who owns tvgos pulled the tv guide widget from TV manufacturers (yahoo connected tv) last month. it had a statement saying that the owner had pulled the widget.
> 
> 
> maybe rovi is rethinking their business model.




Well I guess I will e-mail rovi also. It would be a total shame if they no longer provide it via OTA. People like my aunt have no internet. So a pay TVGOS via the internet would not work.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rChaz* /forum/post/21368870
> 
> 
> I tried the Dish DTVPal DVR factory reset yesterday, just to be sure, and the TV Guide feed is still missing.
> 
> 
> I also received an email response from the WCBS-TV Public Affairs Coordinator, who claims "I'm told that we no longer support this TV Guide information. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope this is not true, or at the minimum another local station such as PBS will pick this feed up. Rovi?




I got the same reply as you did. Must be a cut and paste. This is looking bad for TVGOS. Seems Digital went downhill.


----------



## DevOne

I can't understand the push into multicasting. Show me one O&O multicast that even generates a meaningful rating or profit. At least one could argue third party multicast "piggybacking" brings a guaranteed price.


NBC Non Stop in NY is worthless. I don't see a single compelling program, and I don't see advertisers lining up to buy spots (my guess is many of the spots were purchased last minute at a steep discount, or aired gratis as a "make good"). ABC's "LivWell" has even been made less relevant with "The Chew" and "The Revolution" airing on the main channel. Worse, WABC dedicates 2 sub-channels to it!


Antenna TV is probably the lone multicast on a major NY DMA affiliate worth watching. Even this multicast can't sell ad spots! I wonder when investors finally question the point of these stations, as they all seem to be money losers.


Sadly, I don't see bandwidth ever being returned to the primary channel. More than likely, the CTIA will benefit from the unused spectrum once they are willing to cozy up and pay the NAB their desired price.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DevOne* /forum/post/21377241
> 
> 
> I can't understand the push into multicasting. Show me one O&O multicast that even generates a meaningful rating or profit. At least one could argue third party multicast "piggybacking" brings a guaranteed price.



The technology now exists via Digital Broadcasting to air multiple streams over a dedicated spectrum swath that did not exist in an Analog Broadcast world. I agree with you that third-party content providers, such as Me-TV, TheCoolTV, Country Network, etc. generate a nominal source of revenue for a licensee and typically provides more eclectic and unique programming than that found on a major network O&O subchannel.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DevOne* /forum/post/21377241
> 
> 
> NBC Non Stop in NY is worthless. I don't see a single compelling program, and I don't see advertisers lining up to buy spots (my guess is many of the spots were purchased last minute at a steep discount, or aired gratis as a "make good"). ABC's "LivWell" has even been made less relevant with "The Chew" and "The Revolution" airing on the main channel. Worse, WABC dedicates 2 sub-channels to it!



Those are two new programs created as a financial decision by ABC, plain and simple. They are "making" money by saving money that went to producing two long running soap operas. And "General Hospital" will be the next casualty next year.


The typical major network O&O approach to their major-market stations so far has been to produce their own programming, typically lifestyle themed shows, that they hope will bolster and complement their network with wholesome content. The only problem - as you have correctly pointed out - is that these programs on their own are not compelling enough to generate much needed market demand.


Ad buys on these channels are usually either packaged with the primary channel or are the Per Inquiry (PI) type. And the competition for advertisers also comes from pay TV channels.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DevOne* /forum/post/21377241
> 
> 
> Antenna TV is probably the lone multicast on a major NY DMA affiliate worth watching. Even this multicast can't sell ad spots! I wonder when investors finally question the point of these stations, as they all seem to be money losers.
> 
> 
> Sadly, I don't see bandwidth ever being returned to the primary channel. More than likely, the CTIA will benefit from the unused spectrum once they are willing to cozy up and pay the NAB their desired price.



Not sure I'm getting your point here. Which investors should question the relevance of subchannels? I would hope someone does not have their stock portfolio tied up exclusively in broadcast companies










And the CTIA cannot pay the NAB for unused spectrum. Spectrum is a federal resource held by the licensees and cannot be sold or transferred without consent from the licensing agency. It can, however, be leased.


Here's how I see it: The broadcast networks have two objectives at this time.


First: Protect their territory. This is why CBS is reluctantly adding the subchannel to WCBS-TV and other major market O&Os. The fcc has charged that there are too many "empty boxcars" on the TV broadcast airwaves. Examples of this are one stream in a 6 MHz. block (such as WCBS-TV and WLNY-TV), streams that carry 24/7 test-patterns, etc. Unfortunately, Washington has deemed picture quality as seemingly irrelevant. They contend that there exists a higher and better use for the spectrum, and that is to auction it to wireless phone companies, many of whom are politically connected. So, in order for broadcasters to justify their need to maintain the full 6 MHz. allocation they presently license, they have to "fill" these "empty boxcars". You may not like it, I may not like it. But the reality at the present time is that we either accept it or lose the entire boxcar. I don't believe government should dictate the content, quantity, or quality of content a broadcaster must transmit. And explicitly they aren't doing so. But they are doing exactly that through veiled suggestions.


Second: Present Compelling Content. This is what network broadcasters have failed to do and will have to do in the long run. These lifestyle channels are, in general, not presenting content that will encourage a surge in ad buys or audience interest. I have discussed this with people on occasion, and they convey a similar sentiment. I'm not suggesting the programming on a station like NonStop or Live Well isn't educational, needed or even interesting. But there is a reason they aren't generating a lot of interest amongst viewers.


The major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) have to take a drastically different approach to their major market broadcast subchannels very soon. Staying the present course may appeal to Washington, but it does not appeal to the average viewer or the sponsors. In order to grow their existing relationships with viewers and sponsors, the networks must change policy to allow third parties to program their subchannels. This is done in many smaller markets, and there is no reason it cannot be done in a major market. If the mindset is that a third party will compete against the primary, that is a flawed conclusion. Viewers will embrace the network for providing a valued broadcast service. The broadcaster will build favor, not lose it.


----------



## T-Max

Len -


Saw this post just now over on the Philly site and thought you might appreciate it -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=3455 


Here's the thread for the backstory on it -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21360748 


I've been away from this thread for awhile so I'm not current on your problem, but I think it's pretty much resolved now?


In any event, I found the information over there of some interest.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21366803
> 
> 
> It's not known if the removal of TVGOS is permanent at this time, but it's not related to the subchannel.
> 
> 
> See my comment from the 16th.



I've been away from this thread for awhile but have visited the Philly site fairly often. I know that TVGOS went away from KYW some time ago and is apparently still gone. The bonus for me is that it allowed me to tune to KYW using my VOOM box, which has had a conflict with CBS stations for a couple of years or more.


I now can still tune to KYW using the VOOM, so it appears that TVGOS is still not back over there.


Am I to understand that CBS ch 2 also has now lost TVGOS?


Because when I first became aware of the KYW situation, and found out that I could use my VOOM to watch KYW, I did also try CBS ch 2 and was not able to tune to it on the VOOM. The conflict still existed.


The VOOM does not display TVGOS, so I never know if a station has it or doesn't.


So, if TVGOS is now gone from ch 2 in NYC, I'd like confirmation on that and if that's the case, I'll try tuning to it with the VOOM again and see if the conflict still exists.


I'm not absolutely sure that TVGOS is the source of the conflict with the VOOM and this little test might help inform me about that.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21379738
> 
> 
> Len -
> 
> 
> Saw this post just now over on the Philly site and thought you might appreciate it -
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=3455
> 
> 
> Here's the thread for the backstory on it -
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21360748
> 
> 
> I've been away from this thread for awhile so I'm not current on your problem, but I think it's pretty much resolved now?
> 
> 
> In any event, I found the information over there of some interest.



Thanks T-Max.


Currently Malibu lighting was contacted and acknowledged an RF problem with their LED lights and they were sending me replacements. That was about 4 days ago. Still waiting for the replacements. I'll let this forum know when I get them. Not sure if the weather will allow for an install anytime soon though if the ground gets frozen.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21379787
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not absolutely sure that TVGOS is the source of the conflict with the VOOM and this little test might help inform me about that.



Your test will confirm TVGOS is the conflict with the Voom box. It's been well known for quite some time, years. Without TVGOS, WCBS will not crash the Voom box.


IIRC, for PSIP, Voom boxes won't get anything except the channel call letters and virtual station number. Meaning no program title, program info, etc. I forget about the clock.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21380004
> 
> 
> Thanks T-Max.
> 
> 
> Currently Malibu lighting was contacted and acknowledged an RF problem with their LED lights and they were sending me replacements. That was about 4 days ago. Still waiting for the replacements. I'll let this forum know when I get them. Not sure if the weather will allow for an install anytime soon though if the ground gets frozen.



This would be great if the new lamps solve the issue. Please keep us in the loop as you try them.


----------



## jpru34

If I have an antenna in my attic and need just a little more power than my HDP-269 pre-amp provides, am I better off buying a new pre-amp (perhaps Winegard 8700) or should I just add a distribution amplifier?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DevOne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't understand the push into multicasting. Show me one O&O multicast that even generates a meaningful rating or profit. At least one could argue third party multicast "piggybacking" brings a guaranteed price.
> 
> 
> NBC Non Stop in NY is worthless. I don't see a single compelling program, and I don't see advertisers lining up to buy spots (my guess is many of the spots were purchased last minute at a steep discount, or aired gratis as a "make good"). ABC's "LivWell" has even been made less relevant with "The Chew" and "The Revolution" airing on the main channel. Worse, WABC dedicates 2 sub-channels to it!
> 
> 
> Antenna TV is probably the lone multicast on a major NY DMA affiliate worth watching. Even this multicast can't sell ad spots! I wonder when investors finally question the point of these stations, as they all seem to be money losers.
> 
> 
> Sadly, I don't see bandwidth ever being returned to the primary channel. More than likely, the CTIA will benefit from the unused spectrum once they are willing to cozy up and pay the NAB their desired price.



Multicasts are still in its infancy so give it time to develop into more worthwhile programming. NBC non stop format is rolled out across the country on O&O and it does have some decent programming. Live Well is a place to develop programming programming holes created by cancelation of soaps. It has already been explained why Livewell is simulcast in SD and HD which u may have missed. Unless you have specific knowledge of ratings and ad rates, you don't know that they are money losers. When they change formats (NBC weather) or shutter them (wpix tube tv) , that's when you know they are money losing and unsuccessful.


----------



## DevOne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21380891
> 
> 
> Multicasts are still in its infancy so give it time to develop into more worthwhile programming. NBC non stop format is rolled out across the country on O&O and it does have some decent programming. Live Well is a place to develop programming programming holes created by cancelation of soaps. It has already been explained why Livewell is simulcast in SD and HD which u may have missed. Unless you have specific knowledge of ratings and ad rates, you don't know that they are money losers. When they change formats (NBC weather) or shutter them (wpix tube tv) , that's when you know they are money losing and unsuccessful.



I can assess multicasts as largely being unsuccessful, as nobody is remotely bragging about them being a profit stream. Also, I know ad-rates can be purchased for as little as $30 on "the spot" market, because very few buyers seem to care. "HOTP" had an article stating this a while back.


NBC Weather Plus's shutter had everything to do with The Weather Channel acquisition, not poor ratings. Some NBC affiliates maintained the service well after the shutdown, albeit with locally produced programming and a name change. NBC Non Stop's programming is far more expensive to produce, and it shows no signs of shutdown.


LivWell can very easily be down converted by MVPDs either at the head end, or by the set top box. All SDTVs can down convert the "HD" signal as well. The supplied reason for an SD variant is specious.


----------



## speedlaw

I have lost tvgos as well. I need it to feed my Sony hdd 250 DVR . When I rescan though, I pick up a 2.1 and 2.2 which are broadcast on VHF channel 2, 57 MHz at very low power. An older Sony rptv is fighting me recognizing wcbs 2.1, so I'm having non tvgos problems with 2 as well.


Even if you can't get tvgos running, can u at least send us a clock signal ??? The shame is that it normally works very well.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/21382138
> 
> 
> I have lost tvgos as well. I need it to feed my Sony hdd 250 DVR . When I rescan though, I pick up a 2.1 and 2.2 which are broadcast on VHF channel 2, 57 MHz at very low power. An older Sony rptv is fighting me recognizing wcbs 2.1, so I'm having non tvgos problems with 2 as well.
> 
> 
> Even if you can't get tvgos running, can u at least send us a clock signal ??? The shame is that it normally works very well.



I think it is real %^$&( for CBS to do this right before Christmas. They show how much they care for OTA people. I wonder if we should contact "SHAME on YOU" tv program. They can at-least get the real reason for this


----------



## mrsat94

Just checked Me Tv website it shows Wsah to launch Me Tv Network on or about 1 /4/12. Check under affiliates and it lists Wsah. Did Wsah drop Rtv once again for Me Tv. I guess since Rtv/Luken lost alot of the Nbc Universal

library that Wsah just gave up on Rtv for the last time. This is great news because of the extensive library Me Tv/Weigel Broadcasting has. It also lists

channels assignments for Verizon, Directv and so forth......


----------



## mrsat94

According to a facebook post, Wsah was notified on this change, and the stations response if Me Tv was airing a 12 hr (other 12 hrs with informercials)

or 24 hrs of Me Tv, "we don't know at this time"


----------



## Trip in VA

RTV will be moving to 43-2 or 43-3.


Me-TV on 43-1 will be intermixed with infomercials as RTV is at present. The new RTV feed will be the full national feed without extra infomercials added.


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Congratulations are in order for Trip Ericson who, last month, landed a position at Luken Communications, the company who owns and operates RTV, Tuff TV, PB&J, amongst other networks. He made the official announcement on his site: RabbitEars.info - The Big Announcement


Evidence of his passion for broadcast television can be found throughout his RabbitEars website and reading his insightful and technically correct contributions to this and other broadcasting forums.


Admittedly, until I learned of this news, I was both dismayed and very doubtful about the future of RTV and its owner, Luken Communications, as a viable broadcast company. I felt then - and still do - that Luken had inadequately addressed and ultimately dismissed the legitimate criticisms voiced by their viewers. This hire indicates that Luken is hopefully trying to change course and realizes the intrinsic value of their products.


I hope that while he fulfills his obligations with the company, Luken in turn will seek and heed his counsel from time to time. Media companies would do well to hire people like Trip who boast extensive knowledge and tireless passion for the broadcasting industry.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21382219
> 
> 
> I think it is real %^$&( for CBS to do this right before Christmas. They show how much they care for OTA people. I wonder if we should contact "SHAME on YOU" tv program. They can at-least get the real reason for this



?


You are confused. The 'real' reason is as already noted; TVGOS data causes a problem with their transmission.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21383313
> 
> 
> Congratulations are in order for Trip Ericson who, last month, landed a position at Luken Communications, the company who owns and operates RTV, Tuff TV, PB&J, amongst other networks. He made the official announcement on his site: RabbitEars.info - The Big Announcement



Thanks! And here's the link, for anyone who wants to see. http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...g-Announcement 


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21383502
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> You are confused. The 'real' reason is as already noted; TVGOS data causes a problem with their transmission.



Perhaps you can restate how all of a sudden the TVGOS data became a problem with CBS's transmission? I may have missed a previous post which laid this out. Was it a technical issue or a cost issue? In eitehr case was it because CBS decision makers had NO clue on how many OTA people there are using TVGOS and depending on it?


There seems to be a lot of bum information written in the papers by reporters about Cable losing customers to FIOS etc and NO mention of people like me ditching cable for OTA. Like many on this forum.


I wonder if CBS folks have mistakenly assumed OTA is not used very much anymore and really are misinforrmed about OTA.


Perhaps if more of us wrote to them they would change their minds. In fact maybe this whole TVGOS issue is an exercise by CBS to see who really cares and get a sense of OTA use? I will be writing to them.


----------



## SnellKrell

Ken clearly stated it was a technical issue - one that impeded stations' transmission!!!!


There was nothing further.


----------



## Trip in VA

TVGOS has been reportedly causing issues for a long time now. I know of at least one station that used to air it (WGCL Atlanta) who ultimately dropped it because they could not resolve the issues it was presenting. I've heard of others who took it offline for a while trying to resolve those issues. What those issues are, aside from the issue T-Max has with the VOOM box, I am uncertain.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21383719
> 
> 
> Ken clearly stated it was a technical issue - one that impeded stations' transmission!!!!
> 
> 
> There was nothing further.



I want to know what transmission issue since CBS was one of my better stations at 30 miles away from the ESB. I saw NO transmission issues. It was also strange that it copped up at the same time the sub was airing. Very coincidental for the sub not having anything to do with it.


The "it was a transmission issue" is vague (not blaming Ken). Why all of a sudden was this so called transmission issue so bad that they had to drop it? Was it a problem right along? Is it really a financial decision in disguise? I think we all deserve a better explanation from CBS. I want the details and I won't be satisfied until CBS comes clean.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21384374
> 
> 
> I want to know what transmission issue since CBS was one of my better stations at 30 miles away from the ESB. I saw NO transmission issues. It was also strange that it copped up at the same time the sub was airing. Very coincidental for the sub not having anything to do with it.
> 
> 
> The "it was a transmission issue" is vague (not blaming Ken). Why all of a sudden was this so called transmission issue so bad that they had to drop it? Was it a problem right along? Is it really a financial decision in disguise? I think we all deserve a better explanation from CBS. I want the details and I won't be satisfied until CBS comes clean.



Since you won't be satified by the "vague" repsonses from both Ken and Trip, why don't you go to the source -


Les Moonves


CBS - New York, 212-975-4321


CBS - Los Angeles, 323-575-2345


----------



## Aero 1

face it old timers







OTA stations will only provide the minimum. as internet connected OTA boxes and interenet tv sets penetrate the market, and as the young generation and their spending power settle in, complicated, time and money consuming, interfering technologies will be dropped. simply connect your tv/set top box to the internet for guide data.


they are not bound to provide you guide data, and they are not bound to give you an answer.


this is going to be your only solution: http://www.amazon.com/TV-Guide-1-yea.../dp/B003N3QRF8


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21383502
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> You are confused. The 'real' reason is as already noted; TVGOS data causes a problem with their transmission.



Ok, But then why did it take years for them to figure this out? They been carrying the signal how long? Now all of a sudden with no warning it takes it off line. Shows what they think of OTA people imo


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21384473
> 
> 
> face it old timers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OTA stations will only provide the minimum. as internet connected OTA boxes and interenet tv sets penetrate the market, and as the young generation and their spending power settle in, complicated, time and money consuming, interfering technologies will be dropped. simply connect your tv/set top box to the internet for guide data.
> 
> 
> they are not bound to provide you guide data, and they are not bound to give you an answer.
> 
> 
> this is going to be your only solution: http://www.amazon.com/TV-Guide-1-yea.../dp/B003N3QRF8



Ok this Amazon thing does not help if you want to use your guide on your DVR and just push record.


Also connecting to the internet does not help boxes like DTVpal. Also there are people out there like my aunt who do not have internet.


You are forgetting the whole elderly market.


Since NY is a major market I am hopeful that another channel will pick it up.


Seems 19 markets in the USA have TVGOS and I heard no complaints about it causing transmission problems.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21385397
> 
> 
> Ok this Amazon thing does not help if you want to use your guide on your DVR and just push record.
> 
> 
> Also connecting to the internet does not help boxes like DTVpal. Also there are people out there like my aunt who do not have internet.
> 
> 
> You are forgetting the whole elderly market.
> 
> 
> Since NY is a major market I am hopeful that another channel will pick it up.
> 
> 
> Seems 19 markets in the USA have TVGOS and I heard no complaints about it causing transmission problems.



i am not forgetting the elderly market, the market is forgetting the about the elderly people.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21385423
> 
> 
> i am not forgetting the elderly market, the market is forgetting the about the elderly people.


*"simply connect your tv/set top box to the internet for guide data."
*


I wonder what is the percentage of elderly in NY that have internet. Not having TVOS is a real downgrade for them. I hope some channel figures it out.


19 markets carry TVGOS. How come they do not have transmission problems? CBS is leading people to believe that any station would have similar problems.


I do not believe that so far. Not until more info comes out.


Maybe it is time to tell our congressmen and senators. I bet they would say something.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21385501
> 
> *"simply connect your tv/set top box to the internet for guide data."
> *
> 
> 
> I wonder what is the percentage of elderly in NY that have internet. Not having TVOS is a real downgrade for them. I hope some channel figures it out.
> 
> 
> 19 markets carry TVGOS. How come they do not have transmission problems? CBS is leading people to believe that any station would have similar problems.
> 
> 
> I do not believe that so far. Not until more info comes out.
> 
> 
> Maybe it is time to tell our congressmen and senators. I bet they would say something.



Washington already requires each DTV Station to transmit their own Guide Data. How likely do you think they'll require one or more stations per market to aid their competitors by carrying TVGOS? What does this service cost the consumer and what businesses profit from it?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21385501
> 
> *"simply connect your tv/set top box to the internet for guide data."
> *
> 
> 
> I wonder what is the percentage of elderly in NY that have internet. Not having TVOS is a real downgrade for them. I hope some channel figures it out.
> 
> 
> 19 markets carry TVGOS. How come they do not have transmission problems? CBS is leading people to believe that any station would have similar problems.
> 
> 
> I do not believe that so far. Not until more info comes out.
> 
> 
> Maybe it is time to tell our congressmen and senators. I bet they would say something.



im not in argument with you about how many old people have internet, im arguing with you about the notion that you seem to have that its a government mandate to offer tvgos to your grandma, aunt or whoever.


CBS is complying with the law. they are giving your grandma channel 2 for free. no where does it state ANYWHERE that they have to be the ones to offer tvgos to her.


you can either believe that its causing them a problem or not, you could also probably believe that Rovio jacked up their pricing and CBS said no, you could also believe that maybe they are working on a fix, but you are delusional if you think CBS HAS to offer it just to make your life easier.


good luck on getting your congressman to force CBS to implement something that is not mandatory nor probably makes financial sense to CBS.


learn to love PSIP instead.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21385598
> 
> 
> im not in argument with you about how many old people have internet, im arguing with you about the notion that you seem to have that its a government mandate to offer tvgos to your grandma, aunt or whoever.
> 
> 
> CBS is complying with the law. they are giving your grandma channel 2 for free. no where does it state ANYWHERE that they have to be the ones to offer tvgos to her.
> 
> 
> you can either believe that its causing them a problem or not, you could also probably believe that Rovio jacked up their pricing and CBS said no, you could also believe that maybe they are working on a fix, but you are delusional if you think CBS HAS to offer it just to make your life easier.
> 
> 
> good luck on getting your congressman to force CBS to implement something that is not mandatory nor probably makes financial sense to CBS.
> 
> 
> learn to love PSIP instead.


*"they are giving your grandma channel 2 for free."*


That is not true. It is a trade off. My relative has to watch many Commercials in order to watch a show. CBS makes much money on these Commercials. They give nothing for free. They are not a non-profit company


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21385335
> 
> 
> Ok, But then why did it take years for them to figure this out? They been carrying the signal how long? Now all of a sudden with no warning it takes it off line.



Integrating ATSC with TVGOS is a much more complicated task than you may be aware of. Unless you are a computer programmer, it's unlikely you, or I, would be able to understand the full reasons behind what is going on.


Assuming it took years to figure something out is making a big jump, and most likely one that is wrong. One could just as easily assume TVGOS recently changed something in their data that is now causing issues.


Again, I'm in the process of asking my contacts at CBS.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21385669
> 
> *"they are giving your grandma channel 2 for free."*
> 
> 
> That is not true. It is a trade off. My relative has to watch many Commercials in order to watch a show. CBS makes much money on these Commercials. They give nothing for free. They are not a non-profit company



now you are nitpicking. for all intents and purposes, its free. your relative watching commercials is not a monetary expense on her part in order to watch the free channel.


you said it yourself, they are not a non-profit. fixing the issue probably doesnt make financial sense to them. and they still are not required by law to provide it.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21385700
> 
> 
> Integrating ATSC with TVGOS is a much more complicated task than you may be aware of. Unless you are a computer programmer, it's unlikely you, or I, would be able to understand the full reasons behind what is going on.
> 
> 
> Assuming it took years to figure something out is making a big jump, and most likely one that is wrong. One could just as easily assume TVGOS recently changed something in their data that is now causing issues.
> 
> 
> Again, I'm in the process of asking my contacts at CBS.



ok I will wait to hear what you find out. Do you have contacts with Rovi also? So far no reply from them


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21385772
> 
> 
> Do you have contacts with Rovi also?



No, not anymore.



> Quote:
> So far no reply from them



From what I understand, that is par for the course.


----------



## LenL

Lots of different opinions I see on this!


Here' my take. To put the new 2.2 sub on the air is going to cost money. TVGOS support was costing money. Whether it was lots of programmers or a couple who knows but probably like every business, the top brass at CBS were looking for cost cutting measures to get funds for putting 2.2 on the air. The underlings not knowing or caring about the impact offerred up cost savings for cuting TVGOS support and the bosses jumped on it.


Pure speculation on my part but too many coincidences to not be close to the truth!


This cuts down on our ability to record shows and zip past commercials. Just what CBS would not want us to do!


----------



## rcodey

FWIW, about 2 weeks before KYW stopped transmitting the guide I was getting signal breakups every 10 to 20 seconds. The last 2 weeks without the guide just the occasional breakup every 15 to 20 minutes. I'm about 70 miles from the KYW transmitter.


Do wish KYW or WCBS would start the guide again without problems.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21386072
> 
> 
> Lots of different opinions I see on this!
> 
> 
> Here' my take. To put the new 2.2 sub on the air is going to cost money. TVGOS support was costing money. Whether it was lots of programmers or a couple who knows but probably like every business, the top brass at CBS were looking for cost cutting measures to get funds for putting 2.2 on the air. The underlings not knowing or caring about the impact offerred up cost savings for cuting TVGOS support and the bosses jumped on it.
> 
> 
> Pure speculation on my part but too many coincidences to not be close to the truth!



More like pure baloney.


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DevOne* /forum/post/21377241
> 
> 
> I can't understand the push into multicasting. Show me one O&O multicast that even generates a meaningful rating or profit. At least one could argue third party multicast "piggybacking" brings a guaranteed price.
> 
> 
> NBC Non Stop in NY is worthless. I don't see a single compelling program, and I don't see advertisers lining up to buy spots (my guess is many of the spots were purchased last minute at a steep discount, or aired gratis as a "make good"). ABC's "LivWell" has even been made less relevant with "The Chew" and "The Revolution" airing on the main channel. Worse, WABC dedicates 2 sub-channels to it!
> 
> 
> Antenna TV is probably the lone multicast on a major NY DMA affiliate worth watching. Even this multicast can't sell ad spots! I wonder when investors finally question the point of these stations, as they all seem to be money losers.
> 
> 
> Sadly, I don't see bandwidth ever being returned to the primary channel. More than likely, the CTIA will benefit from the unused spectrum once they are willing to cozy up and pay the NAB their desired price.



I like NY Non Stop. Shows that I usually watch on there are "Cash Cab", some News, and "Talk Stoop.'


----------



## LenL

There are probably a lot of people enjoying the subs. I love "Motion" on 7.2 which I think is the best outdoor/nature show on TV. If you are into hiking and visiting our parks you can't beat that show. I also catch some of the cooking shows on 7.2 and the news on 4.2. Once in a while when I can get the reception I may watch the movies and shows on 11.3 and 11.4. I don't like losing picture quality on the main channel but if you want variety and choice of programming this is an overall good thing. Besides I guess my eyes are not so good as the picture quality looks pretty good to me on the main channels.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rcodey* /forum/post/21386134
> 
> 
> FWIW, about 2 weeks before KYW stopped transmitting the guide I was getting signal breakups every 10 to 20 seconds. The last 2 weeks without the guide just the occasional breakup every 15 to 20 minutes. I'm about 70 miles from the KYW transmitter.
> 
> 
> Do wish KYW or WCBS would start the guide again without problems.



I agree with you. Please write or call CBS and voice your concerns!


----------



## NYC

MeTV has indicated on their web page that WSAH will be their "New York City" area affiliate and that a number of area cable systems will pick up the station. Is WSAH dropping RTV? Are the cable systems rearranging channels to accomodate MeTV? (In NYC, they state Cablevision ch 15/77 which would displace QVC and/or HLN.) Here's the info from MeTV's website:


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21389657
> 
> 
> MeTV has indicated on their web page that WSAH will be their "New York City" area affiliate and that a number of area cable systems will pick up the station. Is WSAH dropping RTV?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21382524
> 
> 
> RTV will be moving to 43-2 or 43-3.
> 
> 
> Me-TV on 43-1 will be intermixed with infomercials as RTV is at present. The new RTV feed will be the full national feed without extra infomercials added.



- Trip


----------



## LenL

5 Replacement LED lights received from Malibu. Only one big problem. I have the box from the original LEDs and the box for the replacements looks Identical right down to the model numbers, the bar code etc. Looks from all appearances to be the exact same light. By the way they sent the complete landscape light and not just the LED assembly.


I guess I will have to contact Malibu Lighting after Xmas and find out if what they sent me is indeed the same RF interference producing lights.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MeTV has indicated on their web page that WSAH will be their "New York City" area affiliate and that a number of area cable systems will pick up the station. Is WSAH dropping RTV? Are the cable systems rearranging channels to accomodate MeTV? (In NYC, they state Cablevision ch 15/77 which would displace QVC and/or HLN.) Here's the info from MeTV's website:



I'm hearing they are seeking carriage on Time Warner & RCN


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21389657
> 
> 
> MeTV has indicated on their web page that WSAH will be their "New York City" area affiliate and that a number of area cable systems will pick up the station. Is WSAH dropping RTV? Are the cable systems rearranging channels to accomodate MeTV? (In NYC, they state Cablevision ch 15/77 which would displace QVC and/or HLN.) Here's the info from MeTV's website:



does this even reach NYC? sucks i wont be able to get it

http://maps.google.com/?q=http://www...ORT%26state=CT


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21390595
> 
> 
> I'm hearing they are seeking carriage on Time Warner & RCN



Wish they would increase their signal so we can get it. How many can actually pick this station up. Also is it still on VHF 2?


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21391176
> 
> 
> Wish they would increase their signal so we can get it. How many can actually pick this station up. Also is it still on VHF 2?



I think you may be thinking of WKOB, virtual 42 and RF 2, though I hear that they did get FCC approval to move to RF 42 if I am not mistaken.


WSAH is virtual 43 and RF 42. I am just south of New Rochelle, NY and rarely am I able to pick up WSAH. I am afraid that after WKOB switch, I might not get them either if they trim their coverage area.


The cable channels MeTV refers to seem odd. They claim Cablevision 77/15 in NYC. That would displace HLN and QVC. Me also refers to Comcast in NYC and I don't think they exist in the city.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21391265
> 
> 
> I think you may be thinking of WKOB, virtual 42 and RF 2, though I hear that they did get FCC approval to move to RF 42 if I am not mistaken.
> 
> 
> WSAH is virtual 43 and RF 42. I am just south of New Rochelle, NY and rarely am I able to pick up WSAH. I am afraid that after WKOB switch, I might not get them either if they trim their coverage area.
> 
> 
> The cable channels MeTV refers to seem odd. They claim Cablevision 77/15 in NYC. That would displace HLN and QVC. Me also refers to Comcast in NYC and I don't think they exist in the city.



Yes I was thinking WKOB (Still waiting 1 year for them to Answer my email)


WSAH is 58 miles from us and we can not get that either


Yes METV says Verizon channel 19 and that is now RTV. So I guess they are replacing or doing a sub?


Anything on ESB is perfect for us or near ESB.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21391343
> 
> 
> Yes I was thinking WKOB (Still waiting 1 year for them to Answer my email)



WKOB used to respond to messages on their Facebook pages. I stopped reading when it was obvious that they were just deleting posts there and not offering any heads up regarding any of their program changes. I also noticed that they have had major technical difficulties -- the program freezes and is replaced by a test pattern that remains for days at a time.



What is very odd is the channel lineup MeTV posted. They list "Cablevision (NYC)" -- even though Cablevision does not currently carry the station in NYC. I have been able to pick up the station with an antenna, and thus I do hope that that both networks are added to the NY lineup -- ithey are worthwhile entertainment, much like what TV Land was in its early days.


What is also odd is that MeTV listed Charter as being in NYC (see below). MeTV stated that they are still working to sign up a full fledged NYC station to carry the network. (Why don't they strike a deal with a low power station on a month to month basis in the interim!?) RTV is stating that their programming will include the full national schedule, in that WSAH will no longer insert infomercials. MeTV is not as optimistic in that regard, for now.



> > > > AT&T (NYC) 43

> > > > Cablevision (NYC) 77/15

> > > > Cablevision (Hrtfd/New Hvn) 24

> > > > Cablevision (Salem) 15

> > > > Charter (NYC) 22

> > > > Charter (Hrtfd/New Hvn) 22/246

> > > > Comcast (NYC) 27/19

> > > > Comcast (Hrtfd/New Hvn) 15/22/95/23

> > > > Cox (Hrtfd/New Hvn) 75

> > > > DIRECTV (NYC) 43

> > > > DISH (NYC) 43

> > > > Verizon 19


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> WKOB used to respond to messages on their Facebook pages. I stopped reading when it was obvious that they were just deleting posts there and not offering any heads up regarding any of their program changes. I also noticed that they have had major technical difficulties -- the program freezes and is replaced by a test pattern that remains for days at a time.
> 
> 
> What is very odd is the channel lineup MeTV posted. They list "Cablevision (NYC)" -- even though Cablevision does not currently carry the station in NYC. I have been able to pick up the station with an antenna, and thus I do hope that that both networks are added to the NY lineup -- ithey are worthwhile entertainment, much like what TV Land was in its early days.
> 
> 
> What is also odd is that MeTV listed Charter as being in NYC (see below). MeTV stated that they are still working to sign up a full fledged NYC station to carry the network. (Why don't they strike a deal with a low power station on a month to month basis in the interim!?) RTV is stating that their programming will include the full national schedule, in that WSAH will no longer insert infomercials. MeTV is not as optimistic in that regard, for now.
> 
> 
> > > > > AT&T (NYC) 43
> 
> > > > > Cablevision (NYC) 77/15
> 
> > > > > Cablevision (Hrtfd/New Hvn) 24
> 
> > > > > Cablevision (Salem) 15
> 
> > > > > Charter (NYC) 22
> 
> > > > > Charter (Hrtfd/New Hvn) 22/246
> 
> > > > > Comcast (NYC) 27/19
> 
> > > > > Comcast (Hrtfd/New Hvn) 15/22/95/23
> 
> > > > > Cox (Hrtfd/New Hvn) 75
> 
> > > > > DIRECTV (NYC) 43
> 
> > > > > DISH (NYC) 43
> 
> > > > > Verizon 19



they are listing DMA rather than specific systems. comcast nyc would incl north nj systems. cv nyc would include LI, westchester, north nj. dish and dtv nyc would incl central nj to hudson valley ny, etc etc


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21391176
> 
> 
> Wish they would increase their signal so we can get it. How many can actually pick this station up. Also is it still on VHF 2?



i can get it over the air is not too difficult if you use outdoor antenna, aero1 you should be able to get it with db4 turn towards northeast here is more realistic contour map of wsah 43 signal
http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...-73.1133333333


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21392694
> 
> 
> i can get it over the air is not too difficult if you use outdoor antenna, aero1 you should be able to get it with db4 turn towards northeast here is more realistic contour map of wsah 43 signal
> http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...-73.1133333333



i probably could, but i have 3 tivos hooked up to worry about. they are not easy to operate with a moving antenna. when i get up to the roof this spring to do maintenance on the antennas, maybe ill join another ufh towards me tv.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21392900
> 
> 
> i probably could, but i have 3 tivos hooked up to worry about. they are not easy to operate with a moving antenna. when i get up to the roof this spring to do maintenance on the antennas, maybe ill join another ufh towards me tv.



get a small yagi aim it at wsah only, you pick up wedw pbs from bridgeport at same time.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21392694
> 
> 
> i can get it over the air is not too difficult if you use outdoor antenna, aero1 you should be able to get it with db4 turn towards northeast here is more realistic contour map of wsah 43 signal
> http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...-73.1133333333



Again We have an apartment. No choice for Outside antenna.



PS You should get one of those rotors. So you can adjust your antenna without you climbing the roof


----------



## Ken H

An update from the Detroit CBS station is they have got TVGOS back in place. This may be good news for other CBS stations; we shall see.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21380179
> 
> 
> Your test will confirm TVGOS is the conflict with the Voom box. It's been well known for quite some time, years. Without TVGOS, WCBS will not crash the Voom box.
> 
> 
> IIRC, for PSIP, Voom boxes won't get anything except the channel call letters and virtual station number. Meaning no program title, program info, etc. I forget about the clock.



No clock either. But the good news (for me) is that I tried NYC ch 2 today and it no longer bombs the VOOM out. So that's now both CBS ch 2 in NYC and KYW ch 3 in Philly that no longer have TVGOS and no longer bomb the VOOM out.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21383722
> 
> 
> TVGOS has been reportedly causing issues for a long time now. I know of at least one station that used to air it (WGCL Atlanta) who ultimately dropped it because they could not resolve the issues it was presenting. I've heard of others who took it offline for a while trying to resolve those issues. What those issues are, aside from the issue T-Max has with the VOOM box, I am uncertain. - Trip



Me happy now


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21394456
> 
> 
> No clock either. But the good news (for me) is that I tried NYC ch 2 today and it no longer bombs the VOOM out. So that's now both CBS ch 2 in NYC and KYW ch 3 in Philly that no longer have TVGOS and no longer bomb the VOOM out.
> 
> 
> 
> Me happy now



Don't get too thrilled. If another CBS O&O has re-added it, it's very, very, very likely WCBS will too. And the odds it not crashing your Voom box again are nil. Sorry.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21394307
> 
> 
> An update from the Detroit CBS station is they have got TVGOS back in place. This may be good news for other CBS stations; we shall see.



Did anyone speak to Detroit CBS and ask why it was off and why it came back? Maybe they found the issue and fixed it


Also why is it that the answer I got from CBS NY sounded like it was permanent? They did not say temporary to fix an issue.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21394913
> 
> 
> Did anyone speak to Detroit CBS and ask why it was off and why it came back?



Not yet, but I'll be talking to the people at CBS in NY, who run all of the O&O stations.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21394955
> 
> 
> Not yet, but I'll be talking to the people at CBS in NY, who run all of the O&O stations.



Thank You and have a Merry Christmas.


Please do not forget to ask some of the following of CBS NY


1) Is TVGOS gone for good in NY?


2) If not what/was is the problem?


3) When do you think it will be back


4) why is a CBS rep telling people it is just gone for good?


Please get as many details as possible


----------



## T-Max

Given that there's no TVGOS on CBS 2 and KYW 3, what's giving me the program information I'm getting on my Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver?


----------



## SubaruB4

Watching 30 Rock right now on WNBC is it just me or does the music playing in the background sound "choppy?" It sounds funny.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21397519
> 
> 
> Given that there's no TVGOS on CBS 2 and KYW 3, what's giving me the program information I'm getting on my Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver?



Probably using ROVI (Macrovision) software downloaded through your DIRECTV sat connection although it could be the phone line connection to your Rx.


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21393711
> 
> 
> Again We have an apartment. No choice for Outside antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> PS You should get one of those rotors. So you can adjust your antenna without you climbing the roof



you should move out of an apt building move to private house. so you can mount an outdoor antenna


----------



## nycdigital09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21392900
> 
> 
> i probably could, but i have 3 tivos hooked up to worry about. they are not easy to operate with a moving antenna. when i get up to the roof this spring to do maintenance on the antennas, maybe ill join another ufh towards me tv.



you should do a tvfool report to see if wsah is feasible for you. before you even try to mount an antenna.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21398339
> 
> 
> Probably using ROVI (Macrovision) software downloaded through your DIRECTV sat connection although it could be the phone line connection to your Rx.













Do you mean that the software was downloaded to the Samsung box at some point in the past? I do not have and have never had DirecTv. I bought this box off ebay but I do believe they were distributed with DirecTv dishes at one point.

_although it could be the phone line connection to your Rx_


That's Greek to me. Again, I have no phone line connection to this box and never have had. I'm using this box strictly OTA and whatever program information I'm getting is coming OTA. It is current and accurate information as to the program currently being broadcast. Also, the time displayed is the current correct time (although I have had instances where some stations' time display has been off).


I have this program information on all channels except NBC 10 in Philly (which is where I normally get my programming) and probably also NBC 4 in NYC if I were to have checked it when I was pointed that way, which I'm not at the moment and normally aren't.


So even if the software to display this program information I'm seeing was downloaded from DirecTv at some point years ago, my question was (and is) where is the current program information I'm seeing now coming from if not from TVGOS?


And since I'm seeing it currently on my NYC and Philly CBS stations, which aren't currently displaying TVGOS, it can't be coming from TVGOS.


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21397519
> 
> 
> Given that there's no TVGOS on CBS 2 and KYW 3, what's giving me the program information I'm getting on my Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver?



If the program info only goes out 24 hours or so on most stations, it's probably obtained from PSIP, scanned across all channels when the unit is in standby. TVGOS data is distinguised by being a full 8 days (the rest of today plus the next 7, though some TVGOS equipment only displays 7 days worth.) Sometimes day 8 is a little sketchy, but it's far superior to PSIP, the quality of which varies significantly from station to station.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nycdigital09* /forum/post/21400314
> 
> 
> you should move out of an apt building move to private house. so you can mount an outdoor antenna



Please PM me so I can give you my Address. So you can send me a large check and we gladly move. lol


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21400672
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that the software was downloaded to the Samsung box at some point in the past? I do not have and have never had DirecTv. I bought this box off ebay but I do believe they were distributed with DirecTv dishes at one point.
> 
> _although it could be the phone line connection to your Rx_
> 
> 
> That's Greek to me. Again, I have no phone line connection to this box and never have had. I'm using this box strictly OTA and whatever program information I'm getting is coming OTA. It is current and accurate information as to the program currently being broadcast. Also, the time displayed is the current correct time (although I have had instances where some stations' time display has been off).
> 
> 
> I have this program information on all channels except NBC 10 in Philly (which is where I normally get my programming) and probably also NBC 4 in NYC if I were to have checked it when I was pointed that way, which I'm not at the moment and normally aren't.
> 
> 
> So even if the software to display this program information I'm seeing was downloaded from DirecTv at some point years ago, my question was (and is) where is the current program information I'm seeing now coming from if not from TVGOS?
> 
> 
> And since I'm seeing it currently on my NYC and Philly CBS stations, which aren't currently displaying TVGOS, it can't be coming from TVGOS.



Is is very simple. If you are getting 7 days of guide information. You are getting TVGOS. If you are getting 12 hours to 3 days and each station has a different amount then you are getting basic PSIP *Program and System Information Protocol (Digital TV data standard)*. It looks the same but it is not 7 days


Our DVR has the decency in showing us a TVGUIDE logo when we get TVGOS and it disappears when the TVGOS signal goes away.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70* /forum/post/21400774
> 
> 
> If the program info only goes out 24 hours or so on most stations, it's probably obtained from PSIP, scanned across all channels when the unit is in standby. TVGOS data is distinguised by being a full 8 days (the rest of today plus the next 7, though some TVGOS equipment only displays 7 days worth.) Sometimes day 8 is a little sketchy, but it's far superior to PSIP, the quality of which varies significantly from station to station.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21401086
> 
> 
> Is is very simple. If you are getting 7 days of guide information. You are getting TVGOS. If you are getting 12 hours to 3 days and each station has a different amount then you are getting basic PSIP *Program and System Information Protocol (Digital TV data standard)*. It looks the same but it is not 7 days
> 
> 
> Our DVR has the decency in showing us a TVGUIDE logo when we get TVGOS and it disappears when the TVGOS signal goes away.



Thanks guys. From what you're saying, I am getting only basic PSIP information, and my receiver doesn't seem able to display more than the next couple of hours or so.


I assume this is sent out by each station?


That would explain why I'm getting no NBC program info. Apparently, the Sammy isn't able to decode what they are putting out. Also, I should have mentioned that I don't get any particular station's info until I tune to it, whereupon it then it kicks in (not exactly instantly either -- it takes up to 30 seconds or more)


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21401157
> 
> 
> Thanks guys. From what you're saying, I am getting only basic PSIP information, and my receiver doesn't seem able to display more than the next couple of hours or so.
> 
> 
> I assume this is sent out by each station?
> 
> 
> That would explain why I'm getting no NBC program info. Apparently, the Sammy isn't able to decode what they are putting out. Also, I should have mentioned that I don't get any particular station's info until I tune to it, whereupon it then it kicks in (not exactly instantly either -- it takes up to 30 seconds or more)



Yes with PSIP each station decides how many hours of Guide info to send out. That is why some can be a few hours up to 2 to 3 days. Also each station sends out the time for the Clock. So those cheap converter boxes were getting confused and the clock would be off. Since each station would have a slightly different time. This caused problems for the DTVpal and other boxes.


The FCC should standardize PSIP info. So ALL stations must put out the same time and same amount of guide info. imo


For TVGOS this comes from one station. Mostly CBS and PBS. Some other stations are used in other markets. Here is a list of cities where TVOS is and what stations and channel broadcasts it.
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos 



PS I would check your manual to see if your TV even accepts TVGOS. I would guess the answer is Yes. If it was me I would double check. Because maybe it gives a Tvguide logo or some mark when it gets TVGOS


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DevOne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I can assess multicasts as largely being unsuccessful, as nobody is remotely bragging about them being a profit stream. Also, I know ad-rates can be purchased for as little as $30 on "the spot" market, because very few buyers seem to care. "HOTP" had an article stating this a while back.
> 
> 
> NBC Weather Plus's shutter had everything to do with The Weather Channel acquisition, not poor ratings. Some NBC affiliates maintained the service well after the shutdown, albeit with locally produced programming and a name change. NBC Non Stop's programming is far more expensive to produce, and it shows no signs of shutdown.
> 
> 
> LivWell can very easily be down converted by MVPDs either at the head end, or by the set top box. All SDTVs can down convert the "HD" signal as well. The supplied reason for an SD variant is specious.



I don't watch much of Non Stop but I believe it's similar to Livewell in that programs are developed and may eventually or already appear on the main channel. WABC has an agreement with just about every cable company in the region to carry ABC and it's subchannels (19.4 Mbps , half of a 256qam channel , or 3MHz) as-is plus an SD downconvert of the main channel. sure every cable sub with an HD box could have tuned Live Well HD but those with SD boxes, comcast digital adapters could not. Also cable companies don't want the capital expense of a decoder and encoder plus the operating expense of powering, cooling, and maintaining 2 more pieces of equipment in their already packed headends. ABC's solution was to simply replace accuweather by simulcasting LiveWell to reach as many viewers as possible with no expense to cable companies.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21403139
> 
> 
> The FCC should standardize PSIP info. So ALL stations must put out the same time and same amount of guide info. imo



The standard does require an accurate clock, and the FCC does require a minimum of 12 hours of guide data.



> Quote:
> Here is a list of cities where TVOS is and what stations and channel broadcasts it.
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos



Glad you like my list.










- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21406182
> 
> 
> The standard does require an accurate clock, and the FCC does require a minimum of 12 hours of guide data.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you like my list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



You know I love your website. You do great work. They may require an accurate clock but it is not happening and they are not enforcing it


And since CBS Stopped TVGOS. You have not updated your list


----------



## Trip in VA

I have no reason to believe it will not return, given that it has returned on WWJ. TVGOS goes up and down so often on the various stations that I do not list removals unless I can confirm it is gone for good, either from the station directly or indirectly, or through continued absence over an extended period (months, not days).


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have no reason to believe it will not return, given that it has returned on WWJ. TVGOS goes up and down so often on the various stations that I do not list removals unless I can confirm it is gone for good, either from the station directly or indirectly, or through continued absence over an extended period (months, not days).
> 
> 
> - Trip



I hear they are trying out different encoders to prep and test for launch of 2.2. Once an encoder and bandwith allocation for each of the services is decided, TVGOS will return.


----------



## LenL

This is a much better answer to the problem then the one we have been getting from some of the people on this forum who have been contacting CBS or have sources!


I hope you are right!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21406352
> 
> 
> I have no reason to believe it will not return, given that it has returned on WWJ. TVGOS goes up and down so often on the various stations that I do not list removals unless I can confirm it is gone for good, either from the station directly or indirectly, or through continued absence over an extended period (months, not days).
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yes well I am sure you seen the e-mails we have been receiving from CBS. I am just hoping the guy who answered me. Does not know the real truth. The answer I got was that they just stopped providing it.


----------



## Ken H

As discussed, here is the info on *WCBS*:

*TVGOS*

TVGOS will return to WCBS. It was removed because it caused issues with Closed Captioning. The issues were not with end user Digital TV receivers as found in current HDTV's or standalone STB's, but with multichannel provider Cable and DBS head end hardware that eventually affected end users of those providers, who used CC. Also found were bit errors that caused outages on air. It should be back on the air early next year. These issues are completely unrelated to the addition of the subchannel.

*Subchannel*

Their latest encoder platform, the Harris Selenio, is a major improvement over the previous generation of encoders. It allows CBS to add the .2 subchannel and retain over 99% of .1 HDTV image quality. The .2 subchannel was only added after using new computer analysis tools to evaluate image quality. It automatically compares the 'before & after' images. During live events that are more demanding, bandwidth will be allocated as needed to insure the highest possible .1 HDTV image quality.

*WLNY*

Once the deal is finalized:

There are no plans for a WLNY subchannel on WCBS. Also no plans at this time to change the broadcast area of WLNY or eliminate the repeaters in use now. More on this to come.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21406352
> 
> 
> I have no reason to believe it will not return, given that it has returned on WWJ.
> 
> - Trip



You're a wise man.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21407209
> 
> 
> I hear they are trying out different encoders to prep and test for launch of 2.2. Once an encoder and bandwith allocation for each of the services is decided, TVGOS will return.



The encoder was chosen some time ago, as was the bandwidth for the subchannel. At a minimum it's all been in place prior to the .2 channel showing up on ~11/28/11 (even with no program material on the air).


TVGOS is a completely separate issue.


----------



## keyboard21

Thanks Ken Questions answered.


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21411670
> 
> 
> As discussed, here is the info on *WCBS*:
> *Subchannel*
> 
> Their latest encoder platform, the Harris Selenio, is a major improvement over the previous generation of encoders. It allows CBS to add the .2 subchannel and retain over 99% of .1 HDTV image quality.



Well, that's certainly welcome news if they stick to those figures.

Maybe some of the other local broadcasters (....cough... cough... NBC... cough.....) will take note on how it's done properly without killing your main feed's PQ.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21413712
> 
> 
> Well, that's certainly welcome news if they stick to those figures.
> 
> Maybe some of the other local broadcasters (....cough... cough... NBC... cough.....) will take note on how it's done properly without killing your main feed's PQ.



I don't see one station that has had it's main feed killed by having subs. In fact I am enjoying all the available subs we have been given and consider this a very good thing. More programming and more options to view TV.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21411670
> 
> 
> As discussed, here is the info on *WCBS*:
> 
> *TVGOS*
> 
> TVGOS will return to WCBS. It was removed because it caused issues with Closed Captioning. The issues were not with end user Digital TV receivers as found in current HDTV's or standalone STB's, but with multichannel provider Cable and DBS head end hardware that eventually affected end users of those providers, who used CC. Also found were bit errors that caused outages on air. It should be back on the air early next year. These issues are completely unrelated to the addition of the subchannel.



If this is true then why did they pull it from OTA? Also the TV guide for Cable etc is different from OTA. Not the exact same thing.


If this was true and the reason why didn't they say so from the get go and instead pretty much gave NO explanation and simply made it sound as if TVGOS was gone for good.


I still think the truth has not been given by CBS. They have bungled this whole thing.


Also noted that NO date was given for when TVGOS is coming back. Early next year could be any time from January through perhaps May and given how vague that is and the CBS track record it could be by next December.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21413843
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21411670
> 
> 
> As discussed, here is the info on *WCBS*:
> 
> *TVGOS*
> 
> TVGOS will return to WCBS. It was removed because it caused issues with Closed Captioning. The issues were not with end user Digital TV receivers as found in current HDTV's or standalone STB's, but with multichannel provider Cable and DBS head end hardware that eventually affected end users of those providers, who used CC. Also found were bit errors that caused outages on air. It should be back on the air early next year. These issues are completely unrelated to the addition of the subchannel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is true then why did they pull it from OTA? Also the TV guide for Cable etc is different from OTA. Not the exact same thing.
> 
> 
> If this was true and the reason why didn't they say so from the get go and instead pretty much gave NO explanation and simply made it sound as if TVGOS was gone for good.
> 
> 
> I still think the truth has not been given by CBS. They have bungled this whole thing.
> 
> 
> Also noted that NO date was given for when TVGOS is coming back. Early next year could be any time from January through perhaps May and given how vague that is and the CBS track record it could be by next December.
Click to expand...


A simple "thank you" would do!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21413843
> 
> 
> If this is true then why did they pull it from OTA?



Your lack of knowledge in this area is showing. Multichannel providers get the exact same feed as the OTA broadcast.



> Quote:
> Also the TV guide for Cable etc is different from OTA. Not the exact same thing.



Yes, TVGOS is completely different from the PSIP info that all DTV stations must provide. But both are in the data stream of the broadcast, and either one can be bad independent of each other, along with other components of the data including Closed Captioning. This issue had nothing to do with PSIP.



> Quote:
> If this was true and the reason why didn't they say so from the get go and instead pretty much gave NO explanation and simply made it sound as if TVGOS was gone for good.



Why a PR flack gave erroneous info is a completely different issue, and one that I don't have any info on. The info I've posted comes from executives and engineers. I agree it's not a good situation. In general, based on past experience with industry wide PR sources on technical issues, I'm not surprised that something like this could happen. It happens more often than you may imagine, and not always due to corporate malice, but simple miscommunication.



> Quote:
> I still think the truth has not been given by CBS. They have bungled this whole thing.
> 
> 
> Also noted that NO date was given for when TVGOS is coming back. Early next year could be any time from January through perhaps May and given how vague that is and the CBS track record it could be by next December.



That's correct, no specific date was given other than early next year.


You are entitled to your opinion. You may want to direct your ire at Rovi, too.


Since you've been wrong so often on this subject before, your opinions and estimates would be the suspect ones.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21413914
> 
> 
> A simple "thank you" would do!



That is what I did










I think it was VERY kind (Christmas gift) for Ken to take the time to make a call and get information from the source and then take the time to post it.


I for one believe him 100%.


You might not agree with the answers provided, *but you should thank the effort*. Do not kill the messenger.










The more aggravation you give Ken on this. The less he will want to help (getting info) us in the future.


Questions to clarify can be asked without an attitude. We are not entitled to anything because we are members of this board. The info we get from people are gifts. Not an entitlement.


I for one am thrilled that we will get TVGOS back at some point. That CBS is working on the issue.


Snellkrell is correct. Just say thanks.


----------



## LenL

First I was not attacking KenH as keyboard21 suggested. I know KENH is just the messenger and appreciate the info he has been able to get.


My problem is CBS is in the communications business and why do we have to have someone try (pry) to get info from them when THEY should be communicating to their viewers? Hello what are you waiting for CBS? I give them an "F" for how they handled and communicated on this. Their communication or lack there of exascerbated the problem. If from the get go they said here is the problem, we are working on it and plan to have TVGOS back as soon as possible we would of all been happy.


Since satelllite, cable and FIOS don't use it I'm not sure why or how it could have interferred with CC and have we ever heard of anyone on those systems complain?I did a quick internet check and found nothing recent.


As I understood it the transmission of CBS signal to cable, satellite, FIOS is NOT via OTA/ESB the same as we get. If that is true then I can see how CBS could not do something for the non OTA folks. If this is not true I was suggesting CBS could have pulled TVGOS just for the cable etc users.


Finally "Thank you Ken" for your efforts on our behalf. My commnets were not to be construed as attacking your efforts in any way but rather against CBS for you having to do this work when they should have COMMUNICATED to their viewers!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21414440
> 
> 
> 
> My problem is CBS........
> 
> .......Their communication or lack there of exascerbated the problem.



For you and one other user in this topic. The other user is fine now that he knows that TVGOS will return, and relatively shortly.



> Quote:
> If from the get go they said here is the problem, we are working on it and plan to have TVGOS back as soon as possible we would of all been happy.



Yes, in a perfect world it could have been handled better.



> Quote:
> As I understood it the transmission of CBS signal to cable, satellite, FIOS is NOT via OTA/ESB the same as we get.



Again, this is incorrect. How it gets to you, and multichannel providers is different, but it's the same data.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21414161
> 
> 
> 
> The more aggravation you give Ken on this. The less he will want to help (getting info) us in the future.



Not at all. I help wherever and whenever I can.


----------



## a72849

_Also no plans at this time to change the broadcast area of WLNY or eliminate the repeaters in use now. More on this to come._


Is WLNY's Morristown, NJ repeater on RF Channel 17 transmitting? I have not received it for about six months.


----------



## rChaz

I occasionally use Closed Captions & I had noticed that CBS CC were consistently mangled, while other stations CCs were fine. Even as recently as a couple weeks ago, after TVGOS had been removed(?), they still were mangled. However CC is currently displaying properly on CBS! (I take that back - still mangled for some CBS programs, not for other CBS programs.)


I look forward to having both CC & eventually reinstated TVGOS working properly, together...


Thank you goes out to Ken H for the info!


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21403139
> 
> 
> ...PS I would check your manual to see if your TV even accepts TVGOS. I would guess the answer is Yes. If it was me I would double check. Because maybe it gives a Tvguide logo or some mark when it gets TVGOS



I'm using a couple of older set top boxes to receive OTA, not a TV tuner. The one which does display program info and time is the Samsung SIR-TS360, which is a recycled DirecTV box (were they also sold on the open market? I think maybe they were). It was manufactured in 2005.


The VOOM box is older (I think) and does not display either program info or time. It has an obvious conflict with TVGOS, which causes it to reboot when tuned to a station carrying TVGOS, like CBS previously was.


Thanks for the PSIP info you provided. Although the Samsung box does display the current program and some of the upcoming ones, it tends to only give the next 3 hours or so.


----------



## SubaruB4

What is this TVOS? Would that be the program info for the current show on? If so mine shows up on WCBS, It only goes forward only 11 hours but I haven't had any issues since I've been watching the posting about this.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21416131
> 
> 
> What is this TVOS? Would that be the program info for the current show on? If so mine shows up on WCBS, It only goes forward only 11 hours but I haven't had any issues since I've been watching the posting about this.



TVGOS = TV Guide On Screen Service


Select consumer TV devices, primarily DVR's & HDTV's, have the ability to provide viewers with detailed program listings on demand. This system was initially used used by a number of TV manufactures well before Digital TV, and a second generation version was developed for DTV. At some point Rovi bought TVGOS and is now supporting it.

http://www.rovicorp.com/products/ce_..._on_screen.htm 
http://www.rovicorp.com/support/9391.htm 



Please go back and read the topic a few days previous and you'll see the difference between TVGOS and the ATSC Digital TV program data, which is called PSIP.


Unless a Digital TV device specifically says it has TVGOS, it will only be capable of PSIP, which is what you described above 'It only goes forward only 11 hours'. PSIP is usually a day or less of info, where TVGOS can provide ~two weeks, if it works properly.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21416915
> 
> 
> TVGOS = TV Guide On Screen Service
> 
> 
> Select consumer TV devices, primarily DVR's & HDTV's, have the ability to provide viewers with detailed program listings on demand. This system was initially used used by a number of TV manufactures well before Digital TV, and a second generation version was developed for DTV. At some point Rovi bought TVGOS and is now 'supporting' it.
> 
> http://www.rovicorp.com/support/9391.htm
> 
> 
> Please go back and read the topic a few days previous and you'll see the difference between TVGOS and the ATSC Digital TV program data, which is called PSIP.
> 
> 
> Unless a Digital TV device specifically says it has TVGOS, it will only be capable of PSIP, which is what you described above 'It only goes forward only 11 hours'. PSIP is usually a day or less of info, where TVGOS can provide two weeks, if it works properly.



Hi Ken, I read the link, but it's not clear who pays for the TVGOS service. Is it included when you buy the device? And how does the TV station broadcasting the signal get compensated? Thanks,


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21417124
> 
> 
> Hi Ken, I read the link, but it's not clear who pays for the TVGOS service. Is it included when you buy the device? And how does the TV station broadcasting the signal get compensated? Thanks,



Yes, it's free to consumers who own hardware that is TVGOS capable. Rovi charges advertisers and pays the broadcasters to have it in the data stream of the DTV signal.


I added a second link to my post above yours, with additional info.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21416021
> 
> 
> I'm using a couple of older set top boxes to receive OTA, not a TV tuner. The one which does display program info and time is the Samsung SIR-TS360, which is a recycled DirecTV box (were they also sold on the open market? I think maybe they were). It was manufactured in 2005.



Yes, originally DirecTV boxes were sold at retail, branded by whatever company made them; RCA, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, etc., and ran software unique to each. Because none of the DBS systems at the time had the capacity or capability to provide local HD stations, these units included a Digital TV OTA tuner. The box integrated the programming guide info for the DirecTV channels with the PSIP from the local Digital TV channels. A few years ago DirecTV changed their system so that all boxes are DirecTV branded, use the exact same software, and local HD channels are carried on the system. The first few generations of DirecTV branded boxes also had Digital TV tuners built in, but current units do not.



> Quote:
> The VOOM box is older (I think) and does not display either program info or time. It has an obvious conflict with TVGOS, which causes it to reboot when tuned to a station carrying TVGOS, like CBS previously was.



The Voom box is a little older than the Samsung. Their boxes worked like the other DBS providers, getting local HD from a built in Digital TV tuner that was integrated with the channels from Voom. It's always been a mystery why TVGOS crashed the Voom boxes, but (IIRC) since the problem started after Voom went out of business in 2005, and comparatively so few boxes were in the market, little effort was made to fix the problem.


Again, I hate to say it but once WCBS re-adds TVGOS, the Voom box will probably crash when tuned to WCBS. I hope by some miracle I'm wrong.



> Quote:
> Thanks for the PSIP info you provided. Although the Samsung box does display the current program and some of the upcoming ones, it tends to only give the next 3 hours or so.



That can vary from station to station, depending on how much PSIP data they load, and from box to box, depending on how the box handles PSIP. Another issue is the time setting. Because each channel can have a different time, the box can change time as it changes channels. The difference time can vary is unlimited; from a second to minutes to hours.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21416021
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the PSIP info you provided. Although the Samsung box does display the current program and some of the upcoming ones, it tends to only give the next 3 hours or so.



Hey no problem that is what this forum is about. Helping others and getting help.


----------



## jchtrout1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21411670
> 
> 
> As discussed, here is the info on *WCBS*:
> 
> *TVGOS*
> 
> TVGOS will return to WCBS. It was removed because it caused issues with Closed Captioning. The issues were not with end user Digital TV receivers as found in current HDTV's or standalone STB's, but with multichannel provider Cable and DBS head end hardware that eventually affected end users of those providers, who used CC. Also found were bit errors that caused outages on air. It should be back on the air early next year. These issues are completely unrelated to the addition of the subchannel.
> 
> *Subchannel*
> 
> Their latest encoder platform, the Harris Selenio, is a major improvement over the previous generation of encoders. It allows CBS to add the .2 subchannel and retain over 99% of .1 HDTV image quality. The .2 subchannel was only added after using new computer analysis tools to evaluate image quality. It automatically compares the 'before & after' images. During live events that are more demanding, bandwidth will be allocated as needed to insure the highest possible .1 HDTV image quality.
> 
> *WLNY*
> 
> Once the deal is finalized:
> 
> There are no plans for a WLNY subchannel on WCBS. Also no plans at this time to change the broadcast area of WLNY or eliminate the repeaters in use now. More on this to come.



Ken,

On the WLNY subchannel plans, does this mean they have no plans to try and get WCBS signal into Long Island and Southbern CT ? The original cp called for using WLIW's tower and transmission facilities. I was hoping that this would be the answer for my lack of CBS programming from NY. Your insight is valuable and very much appreciated.

Thanks, Jeff


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jchtrout1* /forum/post/21419887
> 
> 
> Ken,
> 
> On the WLNY subchannel plans, does this mean they have no plans to try and get WCBS signal into Long Island and Southbern CT ? The original cp called for using WLIW's tower and transmission facilities. I was hoping that this would be the answer for my lack of CBS programming from NY. Your insight is valuable and very much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks, Jeff



The info I posted is not about adding a subchannel to WLNY. Although I don't have any info on this, at this time, I may be able to find out more after the transaction is complete.


The info I posted says that WCBS will not be adding WLNY as a subchannel.


----------



## Keith

Has there been any info about the new OTA subscription service called www.AirBox.com (Website is not working) that is transmitting several scrambled subchannels on WPXN-31 ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/21426652
> 
> 
> Has there been any info about the new OTA subscription service called www.AirBox.com (Website is not working) that is transmitting several scrambled subchannels on WPXN-31 ?



What is Airbox?


Is this like that other company. Bamboom? That takes OTA and broadcasts over internet. Saving the antenna trouble. Don't think it ever saw the light of day


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21411670
> 
> 
> As discussed, here is the info on *WCBS*:
> 
> *Subchannel*
> 
> Their latest encoder platform, the Harris Selenio, is a major improvement over the previous generation of encoders. It allows CBS to add the .2 subchannel and retain over 99% of .1 HDTV image quality. The .2 subchannel was only added after using new computer analysis tools to evaluate image quality. It automatically compares the 'before & after' images. During live events that are more demanding, bandwidth will be allocated as needed to insure the highest possible .1 HDTV image quality.



The PQ of both NFL games on WCBS this weekend was not good.

More motion artifacts, increased macroblocking on medium to fast close up camera shots and very grainy video.


On another channel, anyone know if the former Universal Sports WNBC-DT 4.4 will be turned off?


Right now the channel is still on with just white text on a black screen at the bottom right that says "WNBC Universal Sports New York".


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21428120
> 
> 
> The PQ of both NFL games on WCBS this weekend was not good.
> 
> More motion artifacts, increased macroblocking on medium to fast close up camera shots and very grainy video.



WCBS has had the .2 subchannel in place since ~11/28/11, even though no programming was on it. I'll see if I can solicit a comment.



> Quote:
> On another channel, anyone know if the former Universal Sports WNBC-DT 4.4 will be turned off?
> 
> 
> Right now the channel is still on with just white text on a black screen at the bottom right that says "WNBC Universal Sports New York".



Universal Sports has transitioned to a pay provider channel. All of the previous OTA carriers no longer have it. At this time DirecTV is the only carrier, but this is due to change soon. Because it's owned by Comcast/NBCUniversal, it will definitely appear on Comcast systems.


----------



## SnellKrell

4.4 continues to carry Universal Sports - at least when there isn't football!


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21428245
> 
> 
> 4.4 continues to carry Universal Sports - at least when there isn't football!



Not anymore.


----------



## SnellKrell

Saw the channel just the other day.


Unless this is a new event.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21428350
> 
> 
> Saw the channel just the other day.
> 
> 
> Unless this is a new event.



As of 12:01a this morning, it's no more.


----------



## SnellKrell

Thanks, any word on what Comcast/NBC will be doing with the channel?


----------



## StudioTech

Not at this point. We'd all (well, most of us) love to see that bandwidth go back to the main channel but we know that's not gonna happen.


----------



## SnellKrell

It was totally ill conceived to have it there in the first place.


This bit-starved channel made watching downhill skiing or ice hockey painful.


The lower-thirds were a challenge to read.


----------



## StudioTech

The channel was probably introduced with the intention of eventually making it a pay channel.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/21428419
> 
> 
> The channel was probably introduced with the intention of eventually making it a pay channel.



Why do you say that? Who would pay for 24/7 OLD sports.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21428712
> 
> 
> Why do you say that? Who would pay for 24/7 OLD sports.



Universal Sports isn't 'old' sports. They specialize in Olympic sports that typically don't get a lot of attention in the four years between Olympic games. Live events have been on the increase for awhile now, and this will continue, dramatically.


Here's why it's going pay:

1) Comcast/NBCU has re-upped for the Olympics.

2) Comcast/NBCU has just renamed Versus as 'NBC Sport Network'. It's going to compete with ESPN, big time.

3) Universal Sports already has a full time HD channel.

4) Most of the current events are in HD, and it won't be long before they all are.


All this basically equals NBCSN2, at some point.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21428903
> 
> 
> Universal Sports isn't 'old' sports. They specialize in Olympic sports that typically don't get a lot of attention in the four years between Olympic games. Live events have been on the increase for awhile now, and this will continue, dramatically.
> 
> 
> Here's why it's going pay:
> 
> 1) Comcast/NBCU has re-upped for the Olympics.
> 
> 2) Comcast/NBCU has just renamed Versus as 'NBC Sport Network'. It's going to compete with ESPN, big time.
> 
> 3) Universal Sports already has a full time HD channel.
> 
> 4) Most of the current events are in HD, and it won't be long before they all are.
> 
> 
> All this basically equals NBCSN2, at some point.



OK so this pays to move out of FREE OTA


So what will happen to 4.4? Olympic sewing? The making of toast? Or something good?


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21428914
> 
> 
> 
> So what will happen to 4.4? Olympic sewing? The making of toast? Or something good?



No idea. I hope it simply goes away.


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21428120
> 
> 
> The PQ of both NFL games on WCBS this weekend was not good.
> 
> More motion artifacts, increased macroblocking on medium to fast close up camera shots and very grainy video.



i noticed this too.


----------



## DTVintermods

I don't think they cannot not trade off PQ of sport events for any reasonable subchannel payload. How much would be "acceptable" depends on the viewer.

As I wrote earlier, the best way for CBS to see that is to playback sports on two >=50" screens one with and one without 2.2. This would be better than measure statistical multiplexing parameters. The eyes tell it best.


----------



## mikepier

Noticed now I can't even get 4.4 anymore. They stopped transmitting.


----------



## tjeremiah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier* /forum/post/21431126
> 
> 
> Noticed now I can't even get 4.4 anymore. They stopped transmitting.



yup, 4.4 is gone from my TV. I guess the PQ will improve for 4.1?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> yup, 4.4 is gone from my TV. I guess the PQ will improve for 4.1?



It may not show up on OTA boxes but WNBC is still transmitting 4.4 with black screen with full bandwidth as prior to Universal Sports drop and it's still being passed thru on some area cable systems. My guess it is sort of a placeholder for future content down the road. Don't look for NBC hd to get more bandwith.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah* /forum/post/21431737
> 
> 
> yup, 4.4 is gone from my TV. I guess the PQ will improve for 4.1?



Maybe. Maybe not.


Even if the subchannel is deleted, unless the other channels are allocated bandwidth, they would remain where they were and look the same.


I haven't heard anything about future plans for WNBC-DT, but I can ask.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21432121
> 
> 
> Maybe. Maybe not.
> 
> 
> Even if the subchannel is deleted, unless the other channels are allocated bandwidth, they would remain where they were and look the same.
> 
> 
> I haven't heard anything about future plans for WNBC-DT, but I can ask.



I vote for a 24 hours Learn to make toast segment










Seriously I hope for something good.


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21428120
> 
> 
> The PQ of both NFL games on WCBS this weekend was not good.
> 
> More motion artifacts, increased macroblocking on medium to fast close up camera shots and very grainy video.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21427964
> 
> 
> WCBS-DT NY OTA
> 
> 
> NYJ/MIA
> 
> 
> Lots of macroblocking on medium to fast closeup ground cams.
> 
> 
> Easily the worst broadcast PQ wise this NFL season from the usually stellar CBS.
> 
> 
> Wonder if it has something to do with the upcoming start of the new CBS-DT NY sub-channel? It was really a bitstarved mess today, worse than ESPN





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21426601
> 
> 
> WCBS-DT NYC FiOS & OTA NYC
> 
> 
> Overall PQ is good. Macroblocking on the medium to fast closeup ground cams.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21428231
> 
> 
> WCBS has had the .2 subchannel in place since ~11/28/11, even though no programming was on it. I'll see if I can solicit a comment.



Thanks Ken,

I'd be very interested to learn why the usually stellar CBS OTA broadcast was so poor this weekend. Was it somehow bitstarved? That doesn't make sense since there's only one sub and that has no video currently, maybe an encoder setting foul-up? Whatever it was, the motion artifacts and macroblocking were very evident.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> It may not show up on OTA boxes but WNBC is still transmitting 4.4 with black screen with full bandwidth as prior to Universal Sports drop and it's still being passed thru on some area cable systems. My guess it is sort of a placeholder for future content down the road. Don't look for NBC hd to get more bandwith.



Update to my comment, looks like NBC stopped transmitting a black screen sometime in the past 24 hours. Knowing the greedy pigs at Comcast/NBCUNI, something revenue generating for them will replace it.


----------



## SubaruB4

So 4.4 is no more?


----------



## SnellKrell

Actually, Universal Sports has vacated 4.4.


Possibility that NBC will replace it with another program service.


----------



## SubaruB4

I don't miss US at all but right now no bitrate is going to 4.4 right?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21436600
> 
> 
> Actually, Universal Sports has vacated 4.4.
> 
> 
> Possibility that NBC will replace it with another program service.



How about the


Celebrity ToasT network










lol


----------



## Greg2600

Perhaps they will upgrade 4.2 NY Nonstop to HD?


----------



## SnellKrell

Sara Gore in HD - how frightening!


SD widescreen is way more than this terrible channel deserves.


Professionals in television consider the various Nonstops being produced by the NBC Owned stations as an embarrassment.


The Owned Stations powers-that-be who put them on the air have been replaced by the new Comcast majority ownership.


----------



## keyboard21

ok


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Perhaps they will upgrade 4.2 NY Nonstop to HD?



Unlikely. NBC will want to put something in its place that will generate revenue because whatever it is, they have I instant access to the millions of OTA and cable homes that previously had universal sports.


----------



## DevOne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21441383
> 
> 
> Sara Gore in HD - how frightening!
> 
> 
> SD widescreen is way more than this terrible channel deserves.
> 
> 
> Professionals in television consider the various Nonstops being produced by the NBC Owned stations as an embarrassment.
> 
> 
> The Owned Stations powers-that-be who put them on the air have been replaced by the new Comcast majority ownership.



I said basically the same thing regarding "New York Nonstop" in this thread. When first discussed, it was touted as an OTA 24-hour local news station. I actually was interested in this, as I lacked pay TV. Then, NY Nonstop launched as "MSG Metro Guide" (a now defunct Cablevision owned station, which promoted local events) with news briefs. It has little value, other than to justify NBC Universal's "LX.tv" purchase.


Not all multicasts are bad, despite my preference for HDTV. "TheTube" is still missed in my household. "ThisTV", "AntennaTV", and "RetroTV" are also liked. ABC's experiment with "World News Now" during the 2004 campaign was also valued and missed (by me at least). I'd rather see multicasts on an all SDTV channel though, vs. "piggybacking" on an HD service.


----------



## Trip in VA

WLNY-CD, WLIG-LD, and W27CD are being sold to a group which appears to have investment from both Venture Technologies (which owned WASA-LD before selling it to Liberman and still owns WNJJ-LD) and Hoak (which owns fourth-rate network affiliates in small markets). Not sure what to make of it, though Venture's W45DH is the reason for WLNY-CD's severely constrained directional pattern, so perhaps it will be made less directional in the future.


- Trip


----------



## R.F. Burns

WSAH, channel 43 is no longer a RTV affiliate, They are now running MeTV programing, at least that's what is airing on DirecTV.


----------



## Trip in VA

As I've stated multiple times, RTV was moving to/is now on 43-2.


- Trip


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21444239
> 
> 
> As I've stated multiple times, RTV was moving to/is now on 43-2.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That's great, but for those of us who only receive the station via DirecTV (The station never moved their transmitter site to NYC), That's not much help because DirecTV doesn't air their HD2 channel & I can't receive their OTA signal. That said, I did a rescan today after re-orienting my antenna and now I get ch 23 1-4 but there's no channel ID or signal.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey R.F. Burns,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21447801
> 
> 
> I did a rescan today after re-orienting my antenna and now I get ch 23 1-4 but there's no channel ID or signal.



That is likely WDVB-LD Edison whose transmitter is on the ESB. Check back on that channel at night and it may come through. I have found some rimshot or LD stations show signal by day but do not decode until nightfall.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21447801
> 
> 
> That's great, but for those of us who only receive the station via DirecTV (The station never moved their transmitter site to NYC), That's not much help because DirecTV doesn't air their HD2 channel & I can't receive their OTA signal. That said, I did a rescan today after re-orienting my antenna and now I get ch 23 1-4 but there's no channel ID or signal.



23-1,2 MexiCanal the same Spanish program

23-3 and 4 Two different India ch. (Details written few pages back)


It is strictly weekend channel, During week the signal is weak 0-15 0-15, come weekend the signal is stronger, with pixelation or without, depending where you are the receiver.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/21450829
> 
> 
> 23-1,2 MexiCanal the same Spanish program
> 
> 23-3 and 4 Two different India ch. (Details written few pages back)



23-1 & 23-2 MexiCanal - Audio is only normal on 23-2, while 23-1 duplicates MexiCanal programming with the legal ID in the picture center.

23-3 - Sab TV (Audio comes out one channel); 23-4 - MATV (Audio comes out one channel). Both channels are ethnic channels directed towards the Indian community.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/21450829
> 
> 
> It is strictly weekend channel, During week the signal is weak 0-15 0-15, come weekend the signal is stronger, with pixelation or without, depending where you are the receiver.



Do you consider Wednesday part of the weekend? Because I pulled it solid this past Wednesday night while it hardly decoded Thursday night. It is a low-power station transmitting with a directional pattern aimed towards New Jersey to cover it's COL of Edison, NJ. and to protect full-power WFTY Smithtown on Long Island. I suspect this is the reason for this facilities' signal unpredictability.


Elsewhere on the broadcast TV dial, it appears another toneless EBR Test Pattern has found a home at WKOB-LD New York, at least for now. 42-1 which had recently been home to Mundo Hispano TV (PSIP TVCT ID of "24-7" referring to it's prior incarnation as the WKOB 24/7 Movie Network) is duplicating the EBR Color Bars which have been airing over 42-3 "HOT TV" for about three months. 42-2 continues Daystar programming which has been consistently part of the WKOB-LD lineup since it's inception nearly two years ago, while 42-4 continues the WizeBuys 24/7 infomercial programming.


----------



## MrKenmore

Anyone notice NBC 4 signal isn't what it used to be? It's not coming in good in the past week. It used to be rock solid. 2.1 was my problem channel but now its fine. I need to hook up my A/B switch to pick up CT 30.1.


I am out on Long Island 11754.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't miss US at all but right now no bitrate is going to 4.4 right?



Anyone notice improvement to 4.1 & 4.2? I took a brief look at bitrates and 4.1 was peaking around 14mbps and 4.2 around 3.75mbps. if those numbers don't mean anything to u, bottom line some of the former bandwith of 4.4 was given to the 2 remaining services. Don't expect this to last though. The feed provided to satellite and cable companies still has 4.4 with a black screen and lower bitrates for the active services.


----------



## icemannyr

Ken, any update from CBS on the decreasing PQ of WCBS-DT?


The women's college basketball game on WCBS-DT Saturday afternoon looked awful.

Motion artifacts on the players when they moved.

Video very grainy when the camera moved side to side.

I just don't understand why the PQ on WCBS has gone down so much.

Even before 2.2 was being tested the video started to show increased artifacts and macroblocking.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21457518
> 
> 
> Anyone notice improvement to 4.1 & 4.2? I took a brief look at bitrates and 4.1 was peaking around 14mbps and 4.2 around 3.75mbps. if those numbers don't mean anything to u, bottom line some of the former bandwith of 4.4 was given to the 2 remaining services. Don't expect this to last though. The feed provided to satellite and cable companies still has 4.4 with a black screen and lower bitrates for the active services.



I still notice the problem on WNBC-DT 4.1 where the top of the video frame gets patches of macroblocking.

When that goes way then they have improved the PQ.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21457518
> 
> 
> Anyone notice improvement to 4.1 & 4.2? I took a brief look at bitrates and 4.1 was peaking around 14mbps and 4.2 around 3.75mbps. if those numbers don't mean anything to u, bottom line some of the former bandwith of 4.4 was given to the 2 remaining services. Don't expect this to last though. The feed provided to satellite and cable companies still has 4.4 with a black screen and lower bitrates for the active services.



According to someone on this forum the same feed goes to OTA and cable and satellite companies. Ergo the TVGOS problem could not be fixed for OTA. So what you say is impossible. Can't be true! I don't know who to believe anymore!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21458842
> 
> 
> Ken, any update from CBS on the decreasing PQ of WCBS-DT?
> 
> 
> The women's college basketball game on WCBS-DT Saturday afternoon looked awful.
> 
> Motion artifacts on the players when they moved.
> 
> Video very grainy when the camera moved side to side.
> 
> I just don't understand why the PQ on WCBS has gone down so much.
> 
> Even before 2.2 was being tested the video started to show increased artifacts and macroblocking.



I have not seen any issues with CBS PQ. It is usually a problem for me this time of year too. But so far no issues.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21459420
> 
> 
> According to someone on this forum the same feed goes to OTA and cable and satellite companies. Ergo the TVGOS problem could not be fixed for OTA. So what you say is impossible. Can't be true! I don't know who to believe anymore!



Then explain this.


Currently, there is no 4.4 OTA.


But, 4.4there on TWC!

Black screen with at the bottom - "WNBC Univerdsal Sports New York"


Obviously, two different feeds!


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21458842
> 
> 
> Ken, any update from CBS on the decreasing PQ of WCBS-DT?
> 
> 
> The women's college basketball game on WCBS-DT Saturday afternoon looked awful.
> 
> Motion artifacts on the players when they moved.
> 
> Video very grainy when the camera moved side to side.
> 
> I just don't understand why the PQ on WCBS has gone down so much.
> 
> Even before 2.2 was being tested the video started to show increased artifacts and macroblocking.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21459427
> 
> 
> I have not seen any issues with CBS PQ. It is usually a problem for me this time of year too. But so far no issues.



Well the AFC Wild-Card Game: Pittsburgh Steelers at Denver Broncos is on CBS this afternoon- so there will be no hiding for CBS.

I haven't watched CBS-NY OTA since the Jets/Fins game last weekend- but the PQ was awful as I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Hopefully the realize how important and the large audience that will be viewing today's game. We just want our old CBS back- fix what you broke guys...


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21459420
> 
> 
> According to someone on this forum the same feed goes to OTA and cable and satellite companies. Ergo the TVGOS problem could not be fixed for OTA. So what you say is impossible. Can't be true! I don't know who to believe anymore!



My comment, which you are referring to, was about _*WCBS*_ not WNBC. I don't know what WNBC is doing in this respect, and it could be different than WCBS. WNBC may well have two different feeds, one for OTA and one for pay providers.


At the same time, the feed could be the same and what is seen on TWC 4.4 from TWC. It is entirely possible TWC simply didn't do anything when 4.4 went off the air and what is seen on screen (WNBC Universal Sports New York) is a 'slate' created by them.


I'll ask my sources at NBC.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21458842
> 
> 
> Ken, any update from CBS on the decreasing PQ of WCBS-DT?



Sorry, I've received no additional info as yet.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21459752
> 
> 
> My comment, which you are referring to, was about _*WCBS*_ not WNBC. I don't know what WNBC is doing in this respect, and it could be different than WCBS. WNBC may well have two different feeds, one for OTA and one for pay providers.
> 
> 
> At the same time, the feed could be the same and what is seen on TWC 4.4 from TWC. It is entirely possible TWC simply didn't do anything when 4.4 went off the air and what is seen on screen (WNBC Universal Sports New York) is a 'slate' created by them.
> 
> 
> I'll ask my sources at NBC.



Ken, this is the exact "slate" that was broadcast OTA until the plug was pulled, therefore not created by TWC!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21459686
> 
> 
> Well the AFC Wild-Card Game: Pittsburgh Steelers at Denver Broncos is on CBS this afternoon- so there will be no hiding for CBS.



It will be interesting to hear what viewers have to say.


----------



## icemannyr

I find it interesting that some are getting good PQ from WCBS-DT OTA or cable because I'm watching the college basketball game on FiOS and OTA and the PQ is bad on both.


All the ground cams have extreme macroblocking with medium camera panning.

The main action cam is full of motion artifacts on the players and floor.

Even the score graphic has artifacts on and around it.


I can't record the stream directly but here are a few stills.

On the second one notice all the artifacts players and the floor.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21460796
> 
> 
> I find it interesting that some are getting good PQ from WCBS-DT OTA or cable because I'm watching the college basketball game on FiOS and OTA and the PQ is bad on both.
> 
> 
> All the ground cams have extreme macroblocking with medium camera panning.
> 
> The main action cam is full of motion artifacts on the players and floor.
> 
> Even the score graphic has artifacts on and around it.
> 
> 
> I can't record the stream directly but here are a few stills.
> 
> On the second one notice all the artifacts players and the floor.



I looked at your stills blown up. Where are you referring to?


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21460805
> 
> 
> I looked at your stills blown up. Where are you referring to?



My main issue with WCBS-DT is motion artifacts which might not show up well on the stills.


The players have a lot of digital compression motion artifacts on and around them when they or the camera moves.


The court is full of digital compression artifacts during any camera movement and looks soft.

It's like a variation of the FOX swimming grass effect except it only happens during camera panning.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21460893
> 
> 
> My main issue with WCBS-DT is motion artifacts which might not show up well on the stills.
> 
> 
> The players have a lot of digital compression motion artifacts on and around them when they or the camera moves.
> 
> 
> The court is full of digital compression artifacts during any camera movement and looks soft.
> 
> It's like a variation of the FOX swimming grass effect except it only happens during camera panning.



I watched this game also. Actually on 2 different TVs in my house and I saw no issues with PQ.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21459752
> 
> 
> My comment, which you are referring to, was about _*WCBS*_ not WNBC. I don't know what WNBC is doing in this respect, and it could be different than WCBS. WNBC may well have two different feeds, one for OTA and one for pay providers.
> 
> 
> At the same time, the feed could be the same and what is seen on TWC 4.4 from TWC. It is entirely possible TWC simply didn't do anything when 4.4 went off the air and what is seen on screen (WNBC Universal Sports New York) is a 'slate' created by them.
> 
> 
> I'll ask my sources at NBC.



We were referring to CBS. SnellKrell then added comments about NBC too. So let's go back to the CBS issue which appears to prove that CBS is sending out 2 different feeds?


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21461649
> 
> 
> We were referring to CBS. SnellKrell then added comments about NBC too. So let's go back to the CBS issue which appears to prove that CBS is sending out 2 different feeds?



You're still confused. You may have been trying to refer to CBS, but the comment you quoted that I replied to was about channels 4.1, 4.2 NBC:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21459420
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21457518
> 
> 
> Anyone notice improvement to 4.1 & 4.2? I took a brief look at bitrates and 4.1 was peaking around 14mbps and 4.2 around 3.75mbps. if those numbers don't mean anything to u, bottom line some of the former bandwith of 4.4 was given to the 2 remaining services. Don't expect this to last though. The feed provided to satellite and cable companies still has 4.4 with a black screen and lower bitrates for the active services.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to someone on this forum the same feed goes to OTA and cable and satellite companies. Ergo the TVGOS problem could not be fixed for OTA. So what you say is impossible. Can't be true! I don't know who to believe anymore!
Click to expand...


This is why SnellKrell was commenting on NBC, and why your comment didn't make any sense.


For the final time, CBS is sending out the same feed to all providers and via OTA.


----------



## replayrob

Just started watching Steelers at Denver Broncos via CBS-DT NY OTA... it's even worse than last weeks Jets game. Artifacts and macroblocking on any motion shots. Even on penalties- when the referee walks- there all kind of artifacts around his outline. Very grainy too.

A complete mess!

What have they done

















I'll post screen caps after the game.


PS- watched the Giants via FOX OTA earlier and I'm ashamed to say it- Fox's PQ blows away the garbage now being broadcast from the ESB from CBS-DT NY.


----------



## icemannyr

Since actual video is better then stills or me trying to describe the problem,

I put my ATSC & QAM tuner card back in so I could directly record WCBS-DT to show show you the PQ during the PIT @ DEN game.

I'm noticing the same issues as replayrob, artifacts and macroblocking on any motion shots with meduim to fast movement plus artifacts on the players with the filed shots.
2012-01-08(Sun)PM070258-DTV2-1-NFL Football.ts


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21461739
> 
> 
> Just started watching Steelers at Denver Broncos via CBS-DT NY OTA... it's even worse than last weeks Jets game. Artifacts and macroblocking on any motion shots. Even on penalties- when the referee walks- there all kind of artifacts around his outline. Very grainy too.
> 
> A complete mess!
> 
> What have they done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll post screen caps after the game.
> 
> 
> PS- watched the Giants via FOX OTA earlier and I'm ashamed to say it- Fox's PQ blows away the garbage now being broadcast from the ESB from CBS-DT NY.





I watched both on a Samsung 120Hz TV and they both looekd fine. Are you getting your signal OTA from channel 2 or via a thrid party? Another factor has to be added in here. The Giants game originated in the Meadowlands in NJ which is a fairly short run to midtown Manhattan. On the other hand the CBS game originated in Denver and ws sent to W57th street in Manhattan for transmission to it's uplink etc. With all of that said, the picture as seen on my 40 inch Sasmsung looked fine. How does 60 minutes look?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I watched both on a Samsung 120Hz TV and they both looekd fine. Are you getting your signal OTA from channel 2 or via a thrid party? Another factor has to be added in here. The Giants game originated in the Meadowlands in NJ which is a fairly short run to midtown Manhattan. On the other hand the CBS game originated in Denver and ws sent to W57th street in Manhattan for transmission to it's uplink etc. With all of that said, the picture as seen on my 40 inch Sasmsung looked fine. How does 60 minutes look?



What difference does the distance make? 60 minutes doesn't have the same fast motion as sports.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

CBS, Inc. will pay $55 million to acquire WLNY-TV Riverhead, an independent television station serving Long Island and the eastern New York metropolitan area over channel 47, according to details in a recent fcc filing.


Michael Pascucci of North Palm Beach, Florida, who owns the full-power station, will also sell the three translators which presently relay the WLNY-TV signal to investors with ties to Hoak Media for $6.5 million.


The buyer Local TV Media New York is principally owned by two groups of investors: Rajendra Singh and family of Miami, and Columbia Capital. The latter is controlled by James Fleming, John Siegel and Harry Hopper, all of Alexandra, Va.


Loop Media, headed by Lawrence Rogow and Paul Koplin, is the operating member of the Local TV Media, although it holds just a 3.7% stake in the company.


This information was compiled by TVNewsCheck and more information can be found at this link:

TVNewsCheck - Owner of WLNY Also Spinning Off LPTVs 


CBS might have had interest in acquiring the translators, but likely would have encountered a regulatory burden, specifically the ownership cap which limits how many media outlets can be owned by a unique entity. For CBS, the WLNY-TV purchase placed them at the maximum limit. In addition, WLNY-TV already enjoys substantial cable penetration throughout New York City, Long Island, and Northern New Jersey, even in areas its broadcast signals do not adequately serve, thus rendering the translators redundant.


Post acquisition, CBS is expected to expand the news operation at WLNY-TV, incorporating elements from WCBS-TV as well as content from radio stations WFAN, WCBS, and WINS.


It is uncertain at present whether the three translators will continue to relay WLNY-TV.


----------



## radio_dave

I learn things from this forum. It is free to use, and so I am very appreciative of the folks at AVS for letting me read and post here. I dropped cable several years ago, saving me about $1200 a year. I get 60 OTA channels, about 60 miles from ESB in Connecticut, for free! I'm very grateful the DTV system actually works, works pretty well, and that there is no "conspiracy" to raise or lower power of transmitters at will, or to block football games on weekends, as some posters have suggested. I am thankful that the resolution I get is much better than analog tv could ever be... and for free! It is cool that in 2012, I can hook up my laptop to my 47" high-def tv, and go online with individual tv stations or Hulu for free... or pay $8 a month for Netflix, and watch movies and other shows I am not getting OTA. Things were not better "back in the day"... they are better now. And, while there are advantages and disadvantages to this digital OTA technology... I think sometimes the negativity sometimes posted here causes some to lose sight of that. So, I just wanted to express my gratitude. No one owes me anything for free... IMHO.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21462289
> 
> 
> What difference does the distance make? 60 minutes doesn't have the same fast motion as sports.



In the analogue world, distance can bring noise into the picture. Of course that's not the case in digital so you're right, it makes no difference. However, the difference between a set with 120 Hz video vs 60 hz is major when it comes to watching sports. I've seen blur on my 60hz TV in my bedroom but never on my 120 hz set. Maybe this will help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV_blur


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21463231
> 
> 
> CBS might have had interest in acquiring the translators, but likely would have encountered a regulatory burden, specifically the ownership cap which limits how many media outlets can be owned by a unique entity.



Ownership limits do not apply to low power/Class A stations.



> Quote:
> It is uncertain at present whether the three translators will continue to relay WLNY-TV.



Under different ownership, I would find it to be extremely unlikely.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *radio_dave* /forum/post/21463308
> 
> 
> I learn things from this forum. It is free to use, and so I am very appreciative of the folks at AVS for letting me read and post here. I dropped cable several years ago, saving me about $1200 a year. I get 60 OTA channels, about 60 miles from ESB in Connecticut, for free! I'm very grateful the DTV system actually works, works pretty well, and that there is no "conspiracy" to raise or lower power of transmitters at will, or to block football games on weekends, as some posters have suggested. I am thankful that the resolution I get is much better than analog tv could ever be... and for free! It is cool that in 2012, I can hook up my laptop to my 47" high-def tv, and go online with individual tv stations or Hulu for free... or pay $8 a month for Netflix, and watch movies and other shows I am not getting OTA. Things were not better "back in the day"... they are better now. And, while there are advantages and disadvantages to this digital OTA technology... I think sometimes the negativity sometimes posted here causes some to lose sight of that. So, I just wanted to express my gratitude. No one owes me anything for free... IMHO.



I agree it is a great deal, but I do have a problem with the word FREE. It is free TV in a Monterrey sense. Not in a time sense. You give up your time to watch their commercials. In which they make multi- millions of dollars on. It is a Trade. You get entertainment and they get you to watch and hopefully buy stuff in their commercials. It is a money making venture for the networks.


Have you ever heard the expression that time is money? Your time is valuable and you choose to give it up in exchange for entertainment.


Now maybe I value my time more then others. FREE? Hardly. Good barter exchange, Yes!


Maybe I am showing my age, but anyone remember when CABLE first came out? The gimmick was that you paid for TV and got little to NO commercials. After a year or so of that. The commercials got more and more. Today there is no difference between the amount of Commercials between cable and OTA.


Commercials have become so integrated into our lives we now ignore their intrusion.


----------



## LenL

I wrote to both CBS (the communications company) and ROVI about TVGOS. I never heard from CBS but just got this nice response from ROVI:


Over the air TVGOS service is currently unavailable in the NYC broadcast area. Our host

station, WCBS-DT, has informed us that once troubleshooting and maintenance has been

completed, the issue should be resolved. Unfortunately, we do not have a current ETA on

with this will be done.


Please respond with your device type, model number (TV, DVR, etc.), and zip code. I will

then be able to add this ticket to our escalation queue, and we can update you when the

issue is resolved.


We appreciate the opportunity to assist you.

CE Technical Support

Rovi


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21464330
> 
> 
> I agree it is a great deal, but I do have a problem with the word FREE. It is free TV in a Monterrey sense. Not in a time sense. You give up your time to watch their commercials. In which they make multi- millions of dollars on. It is a Trade. You get entertainment and they get you to watch and hopefully buy stuff in their commercials. It is a money making venture for the networks.
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard the expression that time is money? Your time is valuable and you choose to give it up in exchange for entertainment.
> 
> 
> Now maybe I value my time more then others. FREE? Hardly. Good barter exchange, Yes!
> 
> 
> Maybe I am showing my age, but anyone remember when CABLE first came out? The gimmick was that you paid for TV and got little to NO commercials. After a year or so of that. The commercials got more and more. Today there is no difference between the amount of Commercials between cable and OTA.
> 
> 
> Commercials have become so integrated into our lives we now ignore their intrusion.



Also add to that in TV shows and movies products are being hawked or advertisd and sometimes in not so subtle ways. So they even got you before thay even hit you with a commercial!


But OTA has never been better!


----------



## LenL

KenH,


You are right I am so angry with CBS that I got confused and lost the stream of thought was for NBC and not CBS.


Meanwhile I won't hold my breath about CBS restoring TVGOS or responding to my email about it.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21464387
> 
> 
> Also add to that in TV shows and movies products are being hawked or advertisd and sometimes in not so subtle ways. So they even got you before thay even hit you with a commercial!
> 
> 
> But OTA has never been better!



I agree with that statement. Years ago My Aunt got 16 OTA analog stations. 10 of which were watchable. 7 were crystal clear. The others had different degree's of snow.



Now she gets over 52 channels including subs. All crystal clear. Plus now she gets show descriptions, name of show, time, guide. She never knew what this was or what she missed. If you take this away from her now she would cry lol.


OTA is looking more and more like cable. Only thing missing is the quality of the SUBS. I hoped for better programing.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21464414
> 
> 
> KenH,
> 
> 
> You are right I am so angry with CBS that I got confused and lost the stream of thought was for NBC and not CBS.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile I won't hold my breath about CBS restoring TVGOS or responding to my email about it.



LENL why do you say this? Rovi responded to me and said the same as KEN. TVGOS will return to CBS. No time frame though. They are aware of the situation and will keep on them.


Why not trust the info KEN posted and the fact that the e-mail I received backs up KEN's contacts.


Have a little faith


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21461739
> 
> 
> Just started watching Steelers at Denver Broncos via CBS-DT NY OTA... it's even worse than last weeks Jets game. Artifacts and macroblocking on any motion shots. Even on penalties- when the referee walks- there all kind of artifacts around his outline. Very grainy too.
> 
> A complete mess!
> 
> What have they done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll post screen caps after the game.
> 
> 
> PS- watched the Giants via FOX OTA earlier and I'm ashamed to say it- Fox's PQ blows away the garbage now being broadcast from the ESB from CBS-DT NY.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21462096
> 
> 
> Are you getting your signal OTA from channel 2 or via a thrid party?



Direct OTA feed from ESB- signal strength 79 (out of 100) on TiVo-HD. As a rule, any signal strength of over 65 is problem free for my setup- my usual signal strength for CBS-DT is in the mid 70's- so yesterday was completely normal as far as signal strength is concerned.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21462096
> 
> 
> How does 60 minutes look?



I padded the TiVo recording for +1 hr, so it did record 60 Minutes in the same file as the football game. 60 Minutes looked fine BTW, but that show is mostly static shots.


I'll try to post some screen caps tonight.....


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21464437
> 
> 
> LENL why do you say this? Rovi responded to me and said the same as KEN. TVGOS will return to CBS. No time frame though. They are aware of the situation and will keep on them.
> 
> 
> Why not trust the info KEN posted and the fact that the e-mail I received backs up KEN's contacts.
> 
> 
> Have a little faith



Because:


1. CBS never responded to my Email


2. They never communicated to the viewing public they were pulling TVGOS. After all they had to have some clue there was a reason they were transmitting it NO?


3. After pulling it they could have communicated to the viewers as to why it was pulled.


4. They could provide some form of update as to when they expect to have it back.


5. They totally mishandled the TVGOS issue. Not just in our area but all over the country.


Need I say more.


If we did not have Ken trying to get us answers would we ever know what the heck was going on?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21465200
> 
> 
> Because:
> 
> 
> 1. CBS never responded to my Email
> 
> 
> 2. They never communicated to the viewing public they were pulling TVGOS. After all they had to have some clue there was a reason they were transmitting it NO?
> 
> 
> 3. After pulling it they could have communicated to the viewers as to why it was pulled.
> 
> 
> 4. They could provide some form of update as to when they expect to have it back.
> 
> 
> 5. They totally mishandled the TVGOS issue. Not just in our area but all over the country.
> 
> 
> Need I say more.
> 
> 
> If we did not have Ken trying to get us answers would we ever know what the heck was going on?



Wrong I told you Rovi Answered me a few days after Ken got his info. So we would have info. Although Ken's is a little more detailed and was faster. Not diminishing what Ken did. Just stating that the info would be here.


I agree they mishandled it, but going on about it won't fix it. Why are you not happy that it will be back and that ROVI is watching the situation. But they CBS also answered me. Although with the wrong info


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21465611
> 
> 
> But they CBS also answered me. Although with the wrong info



And that's a good way for them to handle it? lie to their viewers?


At least NBC had scrolling messages about US Sports Network impending disappearance from their OTA signals for many months before they actually pulled it, including who to call to complain.


----------



## replayrob

Here's my screencaps of the horrible broadcast from CBS-DT NY OTA from Sunday:
http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n..._bob/Football/ 

Make sure you look at them fullscreen....


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's my screencaps of the horrible broadcast from CBS-DT NY OTA from Sunday:
> http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n..._bob/Football/
> 
> Make sure you look at them fullscreen....



You got something wrong in your setup or what not, CBS looked and has always looked great for me.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70* /forum/post/21466662
> 
> 
> And that's a good way for them to handle it? lie to their viewers?
> 
> 
> At least NBC had scrolling messages about US Sports Network impending disappearance from their OTA signals for many months before they actually pulled it, including who to call to complain.



I agreed they handled it badly. He was misinformed. I doubt he lied. What do you plan to do about it? Go picket in-front of their offices?


As you guys always said. What you get is free. So we get treated like second class. They had no problem shutting it down because it affected the cable company's who pay them money.


I do not understand why you are not satisfied with the fact that two sources stated it is 100% coming back.


Instead of going off on a message board. Did you write them? Did you write Rovi? Did you PM people like me and ask for a contact at CBS?


Or is it easier to complain on a message board?


The point is you are preaching to the choir here. We all agree with that CBS handled it wrong. We (people on this board) can do nothing about it.


Maybe talk to the people who can?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21466897
> 
> 
> Here's my screencaps of the horrible broadcast from CBS-DT NY OTA from Sunday:
> http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n..._bob/Football/
> 
> Make sure you look at them fullscreen....



Guess a few questions about your setup


1) What TV you have? What is the MHZ? Is it 60 or 120 or more?


2) Do you use a TV box or go direct from Antenna to TV?


3) Do you use HDMI? Do you use a Monster cable HDMI?


4) What cable do you use from Antenna to TV or Box? Is it HD RG6 coax?


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21467013
> 
> 
> Guess a few questions about your setup
> 
> 
> 1) What TV you have? What is the MHZ? Is it 60 or 120 or more?
> 
> 
> 2) Do you use a TV box or go direct from Antenna to TV?
> 
> 
> 3) Do you use HDMI? Do you use a Monster cable HDMI?
> 
> 
> 4) What cable do you use from Antenna to TV or Box? Is it HD RG6 coax?



Those screencaps weren't from my TV screen.... so my TV has nothing to do with it, nor does my HDMI cables or coax, etc...


They were captured unedited via VideoRedo on my PC from the direct mpg2 stream feed from the hard drive of my TiVo-HD, so again my TV has nothing to do with it. 100% pure digital stream as broadcast OTA.


My TiVo-HD is connected directly to my rooftop antenna which is pointed at the Empire State Building in NYC. My signal strength was in the high 70's during the CBS broadcast- so it wasn't a signal strength issue.


I still have recordings of Jets games from 4-6 weeks ago on my TiVo hard drive- same TiVo, same rooftop antenna- and the recordings are far superior.


CBS-DT NY has recently (last two-three weeks) done something with their encoder that has dramatically decreased the quality of their 1080i encodes. I believe it has something to do with the introduction of their new subchannel 2.2.


I have screencaps of the Giants game on Fox earlier that same day on the same TiVo with the same rooftop antenna. I can upload them so you can observe the difference between the two providers (CBS and Fox) and we can rule out my equipment.


OK- I uploaded 4 screencaps from the Giants game here: http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n..._bob/Football/ 

Same TiVo-HD, same rooftop antenna, same day even. And people around here usually slam Fox because of their lousy quality- well their lousy quality is actually superior to CBS-DY NY currently.... It's a real shame.


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21466983
> 
> 
> What you get is free. So we get treated like second class.
> 
> 
> ... Instead of going off on a message board. Did you write them? Did you write Rovi? Did you PM people like me and ask for a contact at CBS?
> 
> 
> ... Maybe talk to the people who can?



Actually, I knew exactly why TVGOS went off about a week after it did, and yes I'm quite satisfied that both Rovi and CBS are finally saying it will come back "early this year". What perplexes me as an engineer (I'm not an economist) is that the problem can take SO LONG to correct. In my world somebody finds a bug, I reproduce it, I debug to determine the root cause, I design and code a fix for it, I test it, iterate a few times as necessary, and let QA have a go at it. Each of those actions surely takes time, but a week or two total is par for the course (unless a total re-design is necessary.) This is going on two months. I will, like you, continue to be patient since I know that is all I can do. I'm not "going off" on the message board, I'm simply agreeing with LenL that both CBS and Rovi need to improve their "bedside manner" when it comes to informing the public.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70* /forum/post/21467227
> 
> 
> Actually, I knew exactly why TVGOS went off about a week after it did, and yes I'm quite satisfied that both Rovi and CBS are finally saying it will come back "early this year". What perplexes me as an engineer (I'm not an economist) is that the problem can take SO LONG to correct.



That's a question solely for Rovi.



> Quote:
> I'm simply agreeing with LenL that both CBS and Rovi need to improve their "bedside manner" when it comes to informing the public.



Agree.


----------



## rosscan

I'm on FiOs and can confirm WNBC bitrate has gone up a bit since the omission of that sports channel. My SNL recording of this week was 7gb, before they used to be 6gb and under. Highest I've seen the bitrate go is 14.90mbps.


However, tonight I have been noticing some weird compression issues, especially on static non moving objects, kind of like a flickering/shimmer effect with macroblocking. Hope it's not permanent


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21463231
> 
> 
> 
> It is uncertain at present whether the three translators will continue to relay WLNY-TV.



Don't many cable systems use the translators to carry WLNY's signal?


----------



## LenL

Frank70,


Thanks! While not a computer engineer, I have been in the business world for 35 years, in computer systems as a programmer, QA, systems analyst, project manager etc.. So I am not totally in the dark about having a problem, finding it, and fixing it. Seems to me that something is amiss here. While Keyboard may be tired of my rants about the issue I think we need to keep pressure on CBS both by using this forum and writing and calling them. Unfotunately my email appears to have gone on a black hole. But I will write again and probably call soon too.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21469361
> 
> 
> Frank70,
> 
> 
> Thanks! While not a computer engineer, I have been in the business world for 35 years, in computer systems as a programmer, QA, systems analyst, project manager etc.. So I am not totally in the dark about having a problem, finding it, and fixing it. Seems to me that something is amiss here. While Keyboard may be tired of my rants about the issue I think we need to keep pressure on CBS both by using this forum and writing and calling them.



It's not a CBS problem. It's a Rovi problem.


----------



## LenL

KenH,


So what part of this note I got from ROVI is incorrect? It sure reads that they believe CBS has to make a fix, test it and implement it. It says nothing about ROVI ficing anything.


Over the air TVGOS service is currently unavailable in the NYC broadcast area. Our host

station, WCBS-DT, has informed us that once troubleshooting and maintenance has been

completed, the issue should be resolved. Unfortunately, we do not have a current ETA on

with this will be done.


Please respond with your device type, model number (TV, DVR, etc.), and zip code. I will

then be able to add this ticket to our escalation queue, and we can update you when the

issue is resolved.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21470438
> 
> 
> It's not a CBS problem. It's a Rovi problem.



Rovi Stated in my e-mail it was a CBS problem. hymmm


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21471983
> 
> 
> KenH,
> 
> 
> So what part of this note I got from ROVI is incorrect? It sure reads that they believe CBS has to make a fix, test it and implement it. It says nothing about ROVI ficing anything.
> 
> 
> Over the air TVGOS service is currently unavailable in the NYC broadcast area. Our host
> 
> station, WCBS-DT, has informed us that once troubleshooting and maintenance has been
> 
> completed, the issue should be resolved. Unfortunately, we do not have a current ETA on
> 
> with this will be done.
> 
> 
> Please respond with your device type, model number (TV, DVR, etc.), and zip code. I will
> 
> then be able to add this ticket to our escalation queue, and we can update you when the
> 
> issue is resolved.



The fix is done by Rovi, and when CBS gets it they test.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rosscan* /forum/post/21468532
> 
> 
> I'm on FiOs and can confirm WNBC bitrate has gone up a bit since the omission of that sports channel. My SNL recording of this week was 7gb, before they used to be 6gb and under. Highest I've seen the bitrate go is 14.90mbps.
> 
> 
> However, tonight I have been noticing some weird compression issues, especially on static non moving objects, kind of like a flickering/shimmer effect with macroblocking. Hope it's not permanent



I've been noticing the effect you describe for about two years now on WNBC 4.1.

If there is a static or slowly moving shot with a solid color at the top you get those patches of digital compression artifacts.


It's very noticeable on NFL broadcasts or any video with sky in the background.


----------



## rosscan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21473994
> 
> 
> I've been noticing the effect you describe for about two years now on WNBC 4.1.
> 
> If there is a static or slowly moving shot with a solid color at the top you get those patches of digital compression artifacts.
> 
> 
> It's very noticeable on NFL broadcasts or any video with sky in the background.



Really? I'm noticing it now though for sure, maybe it's gotten worse? I watch and record the late night shows frequently and it wasn't this bad just last week. For example, check out the artifacts on the blue wall, they're there for a few frames, then it resolves itself the next frame

  


Fades to black can be pretty bad too.
 

Higher bitrate, yes but disappointing compression, like it's been put through an extra filter or something


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21467225
> 
> 
> Those screencaps weren't from my TV screen.... so my TV has nothing to do with it, nor does my HDMI cables or coax, etc...
> 
> 
> They were captured unedited via VideoRedo on my PC from the direct mpg2 stream feed from the hard drive of my TiVo-HD, so again my TV has nothing to do with it. 100% pure digital stream as broadcast OTA.
> 
> 
> My TiVo-HD is connected directly to my rooftop antenna which is pointed at the Empire State Building in NYC. My signal strength was in the high 70's during the CBS broadcast- so it wasn't a signal strength issue.
> 
> 
> I still have recordings of Jets games from 4-6 weeks ago on my TiVo hard drive- same TiVo, same rooftop antenna- and the recordings are far superior.
> 
> 
> CBS-DT NY has recently (last two-three weeks) done something with their encoder that has dramatically decreased the quality of their 1080i encodes. I believe it has something to do with the introduction of their new subchannel 2.2.
> 
> 
> I have screencaps of the Giants game on Fox earlier that same day on the same TiVo with the same rooftop antenna. I can upload them so you can observe the difference between the two providers (CBS and Fox) and we can rule out my equipment.
> 
> 
> OK- I uploaded 4 screencaps from the Giants game here: http://s114.photobucket.com/albums/n..._bob/Football/
> 
> Same TiVo-HD, same rooftop antenna, same day even. And people around here usually slam Fox because of their lousy quality- well their lousy quality is actually superior to CBS-DY NY currently.... It's a real shame.



I watched some of that game last weekend and had none of your problems. You didn't answer whether the set/monitor you actually watched it on had 60 or 120 Hz (or higher) refresh rate. What size is the monitor? I have a 40 inch Samsung 120Hz set and the picture quality is nothing short of great and noticeably better than the 60 Hz 32 inch HDTV I have in the bedroom. The effect you referred to is particularly noticeable during sports broadcasts. The signal strength of the station is only important if the signal is too weak for the error correction circuits within your receiver to be effective.


----------



## LenL

KenH,


What you are telling us sounds like a classic he said she said or the old Alphonse and Gaston Act.


So what it comes down to is this. CBS is telling you they are expecting ROVI to fix it and ROVI will send them the fix. ROVI is telling us CBS is making the fix and testing it.


So the reality is probably this. Nothing is being done because each party thinks the other is doing it. So until that gets straightened out we will never see TVGOS.


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21475153
> 
> 
> I watched some of that game last weekend and had none of your problems. You didn't answer whether the set/monitor you actually watched it on had 60 or 120 Hz (or higher) refresh rate. What size is the monitor? I have a 40 inch Samsung 120Hz set and the picture quality is nothing short of great and noticeably better than the 60 Hz 32 inch HDTV I have in the bedroom. The effect you referred to is particularly noticeable during sports broadcasts. The signal strength of the station is only important if the signal is too weak for the error correction circuits within your receiver to be effective.



@R.F. Burns... I received the feed directly OTA from the ESB in NYC- you failed to mention where you watched the game from, and it's source. Maybe that's why you didn't "see" the problems that are clearly evident in my stream captures. Were you watching the OTA feed from the ESB in NYC?



I fail to see the relevance of my TV (LG brand 47" LED 120Hz) in this situation where the captures from the 100% pure unprocessed digital stream from my TiVo-HD clearly indicate artifacts, etc. Other than not being able to notice these artifacts on a 20" TV- you can clearly see them in the captures I posted even on a standard desktop computer monitor.


Did you notice the last four captures I posted which were from FOX in 720p earlier that same afternoon? They were recorded on the same TiVo-HD using the same coax leading to the same roof antenna still pointed at the ESB in NYC. Those captures have almost none of artifacts the CBS broadcast had. My TV has nothing to do with the posted screen caps- I did not take photos of the TV screen.


Oh, and I'm fully aware of the effects of signal strength on digital channels... I felt it was important to note that the signal strength during my recordings were in their normal range which had previously produced excellent results from CBS-DT NY. I was just trying to avoid the prerequisite "how was your signal strength?" posts....


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rosscan* /forum/post/21474664
> 
> 
> Really? I'm noticing it now though for sure, maybe it's gotten worse? I watch and record the late night shows frequently and it wasn't this bad just last week. For example, check out the artifacts on the blue wall, they're there for a few frames, then it resolves itself the next frame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fades to black can be pretty bad too.
> 
> 
> Higher bitrate, yes but disappointing compression, like it's been put through an extra filter or something



I looked and looked and looked and don't see any issues. If they are there you have to not be really watching the show to see them. I would never see them so whatever it is you are seeing I probably have it on my TV and never see it. I guess that's what happens when you get to be old.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21476255
> 
> 
> @R.F. Burns... I received the feed directly OTA from the ESB in NYC- you failed to mention where you watched the game from, and it's source. Maybe that's why you didn't "see" the problems that are clearly evident in my stream captures. Were you watching the OTA feed from the ESB in NYC?
> 
> 
> 
> I fail to see the relevance of my TV (LG brand 47" LED 120Hz) in this situation where the captures from the 100% pure unprocessed digital stream from my TiVo-HD clearly indicate artifacts, etc. Other than not being able to notice these artifacts on a 20" TV- you can clearly see them in the captures I posted even on a standard desktop computer monitor.
> 
> 
> Did you notice the last four captures I posted which were from FOX in 720p earlier that same afternoon? They were recorded on the same TiVo-HD using the same coax leading to the same roof antenna still pointed at the ESB in NYC. Those captures have almost none of artifacts the CBS broadcast had. My TV has nothing to do with the posted screen caps- I did not take photos of the TV screen.
> 
> 
> Oh, and I'm fully aware of the effects of signal strength on digital channels... I felt it was important to note that the signal strength during my recordings were in their normal range which had previously produced excellent results from CBS-DT NY. I was just trying to avoid the prerequisite "how was your signal strength?" posts....



I guess he is asking what is the screen refresh rate set at for your monitor? Have you checked it? Is it set a max?


Maybe it is your TV CARD? is it a good one?


People here are trying to help you. The easiest solution is usually the fix.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21475325
> 
> 
> KenH,
> 
> 
> What you are telling us sounds like a classic he said she said or the old Alphonse and Gaston Act.
> 
> 
> So what it comes down to is this. CBS is telling you they are expecting ROVI to fix it and ROVI will send them the fix. ROVI is telling us CBS is making the fix and testing it.
> 
> 
> So the reality is probably this. Nothing is being done because each party thinks the other is doing it. So until that gets straightened out we will never see TVGOS.



No, that's not the reality. The reality is it's being worked on as we speak.


As I've already noted, what PR flacks say is not necessarily what the case is.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21476255
> 
> 
> Oh, and I'm fully aware of the effects of signal strength on digital channels... I felt it was important to note that the signal strength during my recordings were in their normal range which had previously produced excellent results from CBS-DT NY. I was just trying to avoid the prerequisite "how was your signal strength?" posts....



Signal strength is not indicative of picture quality unless you know that the channel is free of noise and multipath. And a clean spectrum as seen on a SA is not an indicator of clean channel because the phase distortion (group delay) is missing. So even though channel 5 is also on the ESB (at a different height), what comes into your TIVO on channel 5 may not necessarily include the same multipath and noise that is on WCBS channel 2.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21477008
> 
> 
> No, that's not the reality. The reality is it's being worked on as we speak.
> 
> 
> As I've already noted, what PR flacks say is not necessarily what the case is.



Any news on when 2.2 is officially coming on the air? It was supposed to be months ago. What is the hold up and delay


thanks


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21476255
> 
> 
> @R.F. Burns... I received the feed directly OTA from the ESB in NYC- you failed to mention where you watched the game from, and it's source. Maybe that's why you didn't "see" the problems that are clearly evident in my stream captures. Were you watching the OTA feed from the ESB in NYC?
> 
> 
> 
> I fail to see the relevance of my TV (LG brand 47" LED 120Hz) in this situation where the captures from the 100% pure unprocessed digital stream from my TiVo-HD clearly indicate artifacts, etc. Other than not being able to notice these artifacts on a 20" TV- you can clearly see them in the captures I posted even on a standard desktop computer monitor.
> 
> 
> Did you notice the last four captures I posted which were from FOX in 720p earlier that same afternoon? They were recorded on the same TiVo-HD using the same coax leading to the same roof antenna still pointed at the ESB in NYC. Those captures have almost none of artifacts the CBS broadcast had. My TV has nothing to do with the posted screen caps- I did not take photos of the TV screen.
> 
> 
> Oh, and I'm fully aware of the effects of signal strength on digital channels... I felt it was important to note that the signal strength during my recordings were in their normal range which had previously produced excellent results from CBS-DT NY. I was just trying to avoid the prerequisite "how was your signal strength?" posts....



OK, I receive my OTA signals from Empire and I also have direcTV and both were clean. As to which set you are using the question really was, does your set have 120hz resolution or 60 Hz? What kind of picture do you see when you attach your antyenna directly to your set? The picture at my house is fine. Now let's find out what the weak point is in your installation that's causing your difficulty. What I would do first is remove the TiVo-HD from my system if I was trying to troubleshoot this problem. If others aren't having the problem and you are, there are few conclusions to come to.


----------



## keyboard21

It is

*CONFIRMED!*


I just spoke to my relative. TVGOS (tvgiude) is back in NYC. As of this afternoon.


Also 2.2 now has a Description. So it must be any day now


----------



## replayrob

@R.F. Burns...

The stream captures I posted were taken directly from the digital mpg2 file on the hard drive of my TiVo-HD then downloaded via cat5 to my PC 100% intact & unaltered. They have nothing to do with my TV whatsoever- the TV doesn't need to be connected in order for the TiVo-HD to record, the antenna downlead plugs directly into the "ant in" terminal of the TiVo-HD, not the TV.

Do you see the artifacts I'm referring to in the stream captures? Those artifacts are in the mpeg2 digital stream capture- not my TV. I can see the artifacts on my computer monitor when I open the links to my stream caps- and my TV's not even on.


The quality of the stream captures has nothing to do with my TV. The TV only reproduces what the TiVo-HD is feeding it, if there's artifacts in the stream- then the TV will reproduce those artifacts. If I download the (19GB file) to my PC and play that file back with VLC player or MPC-HT both of those apps also reproduce the artifacts... because they're in the original stream capture.... not my TV.


----------



## rosscan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21476684
> 
> 
> I looked and looked and looked and don't see any issues. If they are there you have to not be really watching the show to see them. I would never see them so whatever it is you are seeing I probably have it on my TV and never see it. I guess that's what happens when you get to be old.



How could you not? It's really quite obvious even on the screens. Either way I hope NBC gets their act together soon.


A more explicit comparison...the desk had the artifacts for a bit then cleared up, also noticed a brightness level flicker after


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/21479480
> 
> 
> @R.F. Burns...
> 
> The stream captures I posted were taken directly from the digital mpg2 file on the hard drive of my TiVo-HD then downloaded via cat5 to my PC 100% intact & unaltered. They have nothing to do with my TV whatsoever- the TV doesn't need to be connected in order for the TiVo-HD to record, the antenna downlead plugs directly into the "ant in" terminal of the TiVo-HD, not the TV.
> 
> Do you see the artifacts I'm referring to in the stream captures? Those artifacts are in the mpeg2 digital stream capture- not my TV. I can see the artifacts on my computer monitor when I open the links to my stream caps- and my TV's not even on.
> 
> 
> The quality of the stream captures has nothing to do with my TV. The TV only reproduces what the TiVo-HD is feeding it, if there's artifacts in the stream- then the TV will reproduce those artifacts. If I download the (19GB file) to my PC and play that file back with VLC player or MPC-HT both of those apps also reproduce the artifacts... because they're in the original stream capture.... not my TV.



Sounds/looks like bit error to me. All I can tell you is that I didn't experience your video issues. Do yo have a 120 Hz HDTV and if so what did the picture look like on it?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rosscan* /forum/post/21480262
> 
> 
> How could you not? It's really quite obvious even on the screens. Either way I hope NBC gets their act together soon.
> 
> 
> A more explicit comparison...the desk had the artifacts for a bit then cleared up, also noticed a brightness level flicker after



I am not pulling your leg. Neither I nor my wife see anything other than what should be there. I have stared and stared looking for a problem and my eyes must deceive me as the pictures look fine. I guess it is a good thing I am not in the business of QAing video pictures.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21481123
> 
> 
> I am not pulling your leg. Neither I nor my wife see anything other than what should be there. I have stared and stared looking for a problem and my eyes must deceive me as the pictures look fine. I guess it is a good thing I am not in the business of QAing video pictures.



"Also Sprach Zarathustra"


----------



## dvdchance

OK so my device says the time has been acquired by TVGOS, but it's 7 minutes fast. Anyone else getting an incorrect TVGOS time?


----------



## replayrob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21480766
> 
> 
> Sounds/looks like bit error to me. All I can tell you is that I didn't experience your video issues. Do yo have a 120 Hz HDTV and if so what did the picture look like on it?



Yes, 120Hz 47" LG (2011 vintage) TV.

The picture was exactly what my stream captures show... garbage.

The issue is, until two to three weeks ago- the feed from CBS-DT NY was as close to perfect (for sports) as it could be. Now, it's a mess.

Funny how it all went bad for CBS-DT right around the same time of this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21411670 which mentions a new encoder setup for CBS-DT NY!


----------



## keyboard21

No one really cares TVGOS is back? No one said a word.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21483958
> 
> 
> No one really cares TVGOS is back? No one said a word.



How can you say that? Check out this video:

People in Times Square react to TVGOS return in NYC


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21484375
> 
> 
> How can you say that? Check out this video:
> 
> People in Times Square react to TVGOS return in NYC



It must be on CBS it has a really bad picture quality. Must be the compression ratio lol



My point is people complained it was gone and now that it is back they are silent.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rosscan* /forum/post/21480262
> 
> 
> How could you not? It's really quite obvious even on the screens. Either way I hope NBC gets their act together soon.
> 
> 
> A more explicit comparison...the desk had the artifacts for a bit then cleared up, also noticed a brightness level flicker after



OUCH. That top image looks like crap! I would be complaining too if it looked like that.


Yikes.


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rosscan* /forum/post/21480262
> 
> 
> Either way I hope NBC gets their act together soon.
> 
> 
> A more explicit comparison...the desk had the artifacts for a bit then cleared up, also noticed a brightness level flicker after



Is it possible there was rapid image movement or an increment in visual brilliance on 4-2 at the time the upper image occurred? Could be a consequence of variable bit rate.


----------



## rosscan

It's pretty bad consistently on every program, same pattern of random areas of the screen (mostly solid colors or backgrounds) getting pixely then resolving back to looking OK. Here are a few quick ones I grabbed from 30 Rock tonight, with the ending logos being the most glaring

 

Meanwhile the overall bitrate is peaking at 14mbps. Was getting great quality before the New Year when it was peaking around 12mbps. True head scratcher


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21484451
> 
> 
> My point is people complained it was gone and now that it is back they are silent.



Indeed. Not many people use TVGOS these days. Why? Because over the years they have learned it's not supported very well, updated versions abandon older devices, problems are not dealt with in a professional, timely manner, etc.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rosscan* /forum/post/21484915
> 
> 
> It's pretty bad consistently on every program, same pattern of random areas of the screen (mostly solid colors or backgrounds) getting pixely then resolving back to looking OK. Here are a few quick ones I grabbed from 30 Rock tonight, with the ending logos being the most glaring
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile the overall bitrate is peaking at 14mbps. Was getting great quality before the New Year when it was peaking around 12mbps. True head scratcher



BTW, the same problem happens with WNJU-DT 47.1 Telemundio. Both WNBC and WNJU are owned by NBCU Comcast so I wonder if they are using the same encoder and settings?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21485615
> 
> 
> BTW, the same problem happens with WNJU-DT 47.1 Telemundio. Both WNBC and WNJU are owned by NBCU Comcast so I wonder if they are using the same encoder and settings?



Trip's RabbitEars.info site reports that both of those stations are using Mobile DTV. I've observed severe macroblocking artifacts on WPXN-TV and it's two subchannels, and Mobile DTV is used on that channel also.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21484451
> 
> 
> It must be on CBS it has a really bad picture quality. Must be the compression ratio lol
> 
> 
> 
> My point is people complained it was gone and now that it is back they are silent.



Not back for me. So I am still complaining! Neither one of my 2 devices that would use it have picked it up even though I tried all of the standard methods to pick it up.


----------



## icemannyr

A direct recording of WNBC-DT 4.1 has a bigger file size.

It used to be a little over 5gb and now it's a little over 6gb.


The artifacting rosscan is noticing is still there but not as bad so there has been an improvement it goes away much quicker.


You can see the lighter color artifacts at the top of the frame in the first image and go away in the second image.
http://imgbox.com/aawZInhD 
http://imgbox.com/aaq4jFia


----------



## SubaruB4

WCBS is just showing bars right now (not color bars) and has a tone now as of 12:04 PM 1/13


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21487492
> 
> 
> WCBS is just showing bars right now (not color bars) and has a tone now as of 12:04 PM 1/13



you mean CBSNY+ 2.2. 2.1 CBS is fine. this is what i see on CBSNY+ with an audio tone.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21486685
> 
> 
> Not back for me. So I am still complaining! Neither one of my 2 devices that would use it have picked it up even though I tried all of the standard methods to pick it up.



So try nonstandard ways










I am confused? You do not have TVGOS? Well Sir I am not lying. So you need to check your equipment.


I just read the other board. You have Dtvpal. Try a factory reset and wait 24 to 36 hours.


If it is the DTVpal it can take up to 24 hours for the TVguide logo to show up


I think Trip in VA or someone else on the NY board has a schedule of when TVGOS comes over CBS. If I remember right it is 4 or 6 times a day. So it all depends when you reset or unplug box.


I can tell you my Aunt said she got it around 4pm yesterday


Hope that helps




Or you can still come here and complain


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21485066
> 
> 
> Indeed. Not many people use TVGOS these days. Why? Because over the years they have learned it's not supported very well, updated versions abandon older devices, problems are not dealt with in a professional, timely manner, etc.



Well I spoke to my aunt yesterday and she missed it. See she does not have or want internet. So an internet guide would not work for her.


In the last week she said PSIP was Horrible. She would get a lot of "NO INFORMATION" Also she would get information saying for example Judge Judy, but the show was Price is right. So mis-labeling shows.


So No description of shows or just nothing at all.


She is thrilled that TVGOS is back and everything is back to normal for her.


She also stated she got a few new channels like 3.1 and 23.1? I would need to ask her again. Nothing good to watch on the new stations she said.


She also told me that 2.2 has a new description. So it must be anyway now.

Then I read on here that 2.2 has a tone and bars. So it must be close


----------



## tjeremiah

CBS 2.2 appears to have some sort of pong mini game happening on the screen. (bouncing blue square block on the screen)


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21487662
> 
> 
> you mean CBSNY+ 2.2. 2.1 CBS is fine. this is what i see on CBSNY+ with an audio tone.



yeah sorry CBSNY+


my guide data just says news, weather, traffic and sports


----------



## icemannyr

WNYW-DT has gone back to the old FOX5 logo.

Anyone know if a change will be coming to the news logo?


----------



## Roger Lococco

I'm sure other people are noticing a slight stuttering jerkiness to the programming on 2.1, I first noticed it on A Gifted Man yesterday, and it's extremely obvious on CBS This Morning today, the video is not smooth, for example the news ticker on the bottom stops and starts very very briefly during it's crawl and the audio is out of sync, it was particularly bad during Carmen Wong Ulrich's segment. I'm sure it has something to do with the work on 2.2.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21488956
> 
> 
> Well I spoke to my aunt yesterday and she missed it. See she does not have or want internet. So an internet guide would not work for her.
> 
> 
> In the last week she said PSIP was Horrible. She would get a lot of "NO INFORMATION" Also she would get information saying for example Judge Judy, but the show was Price is right. So mis-labeling shows.
> 
> 
> So No description of shows or just nothing at all.
> 
> 
> She is thrilled that TVGOS is back and everything is back to normal for her.
> 
> 
> She also stated she got a few new channels like 3.1 and 23.1? I would need to ask her again. Nothing good to watch on the new stations she said.
> 
> 
> She also told me that 2.2 has a new description. So it must be anyway now.
> 
> Then I read on here that 2.2 has a tone and bars. So it must be close



As of last nite still no TVGOS. I have tried everything and still nothing. I am not saying you are lying by the way. I am just saying NOT everyone has it yet. I have tried all of the options I have with my 2 PALDVRs to force them to look for TVGOS. We were without power last year for 5 days. When the power came back TVGOS was back immediately. So short of shuting my 2 boxes down for 5 days not sure what else I can do.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21491700
> 
> 
> As of last nite still no TVGOS. I have tried everything and still nothing. I am not saying you are lying by the way. I am just saying NOT everyone has it yet. I have tried all of the options I have with my 2 PALDVRs to force them to look for TVGOS. We were without power last year for 5 days. When the power came back TVGOS was back immediately. So short of shuting my 2 boxes down for 5 days not sure what else I can do.



If others have it, then it's your specific hardware and/or how it's set up.


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21491757
> 
> 
> If others have it, then it's your specific hardware and/or how it's set up.



An aggregate summary of what I'm reading here and over on the Sony and Dish DVR forums is that TVGOS reappeared on WCBS briefly on 1/11, but was off again by later that day; therefore the reports of success were somewhat premature at best. No sign of it at all yet in Philly (KYW).


It seems to me there were many more devices (mostly TV sets) that were sold with TVGOS capability over the past 10 years, so you'd think there would be more of a stink over its absence in large metro areas. Then again, AFAIK the Dish and Sony DVRs are the only devices that are actually crippled in some way (the Sony rendered nearly or completely unusable, the Dish rendered PSIP-reliant) by its absence.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70* /forum/post/21492002
> 
> 
> An aggregate summary of what I'm reading here and over on the Sony and Dish DVR forums is that TVGOS reappeared on WCBS briefly on 1/11, but was off again by later that day; therefore the reports of success were somewhat premature at best. No sign of it at all yet in Philly (KYW).
> 
> 
> It seems to me there were many more devices (mostly TV sets) that were sold with TVGOS capability over the past 10 years, so you'd think there would be more of a stink over its absence in large metro areas. Then again, AFAIK the Dish and Sony DVRs are the only devices that are actually crippled in some way (the Sony rendered nearly or completely unusable, the Dish rendered PSIP-reliant) by its absence.



I just took my DTVPAL Converter box out and hooed it up and it did not pick up TVGOS. So that is 3 devices at my location that have not picked it up.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21491700
> 
> 
> As of last nite still no TVGOS. I have tried everything and still nothing. I am not saying you are lying by the way. I am just saying NOT everyone has it yet. I have tried all of the options I have with my 2 PALDVRs to force them to look for TVGOS. We were without power last year for 5 days. When the power came back TVGOS was back immediately. So short of shuting my 2 boxes down for 5 days not sure what else I can do.



I am not blaming you. Just trying to help you.


Can you just answer me yes or no on the following question.


(1) Have you tried a FACTORY RESET on both boxes? (Yes/No)


(2) What date and time did you do the reset. (Time/Date)


(3) Is it past 36 hours? Since reset? (Yes/No)


The reason I ask is that I read sometimes the boxes take longer. Like 36 hours?


(4) Did you check in your menu setting to make sure TVGOS is set to on? (Yes/No)

Maybe it somehow reset off? I never hard of this, but worth a look.



I am really trying to help you get TVGOS


----------



## Greg Coppa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/21491407
> 
> 
> I'm sure other people are noticing a slight stuttering jerkiness to the programming on 2.1, I first noticed it on A Gifted Man yesterday, and it's extremely obvious on CBS This Morning today, the video is not smooth, for example the news ticker on the bottom stops and starts very very briefly during it's crawl and the audio is out of sync, it was particularly bad during Carmen Wong Ulrich's segment. I'm sure it has something to do with the work on 2.2.



How do you get your signal - OTA, Time Warner, etc.? Thanks.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21492157
> 
> 
> I just took my DTVPAL Converter box out and hooed it up and it did not pick up TVGOS. So that is 3 devices at my location that have not picked it up.



Ok not to confuse you anymore. I just spoke to her again and had her turn it on and had her push the forward skip button. Today is the Sat. 14th She can see all the way to Sat 21st.


I can only tell you what she tells me. I am not seeing this first hand. So I am assuming she is relaying the correct info.


Let's wait till tomorrow. I will have her check again. I do not want you chasing your tail looking for something that might be gone already.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21491757
> 
> 
> If others have it, then it's your specific hardware and/or how it's set up.



As you can see my Aunt is telling me as of 10 minutes ago. She is seeing the TVguide Logo and in addition to that she can see in the guide from Sat 14th to Sat 21st.


So I really do not know what to say. Someone is mistaken. Either the Sony people or my Aunt.


Is it possible to get the guide info on the DTVpal and the Logo will not disappear till the 7 days are up? So in this case Sat 21st??


So I guess the best test is to wait till tomorrow and see if her guide goes from Sunday to Sunday.


This way we know for sure if TVGOS is running or not.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21492261
> 
> 
> I am not blaming you. Just trying to help you.
> 
> 
> Can you just answer me yes or no on the following question.
> 
> 
> (1) Have you tried a FACTORY RESET on both boxes? (Yes/No) YES
> 
> 
> (2) What date and time did you do the reset. (Time/Date) Thursday afternoon
> 
> 
> (3) Is it past 36 hours? Since reset? (Yes/No) YES
> 
> 
> The reason I ask is that I read sometimes the boxes take longer. Like 36 hours?
> 
> 
> (4) Did you check in your menu setting to make sure TVGOS is set to on? (Yes/No) There is NO setting for it. It is either there or it isn't.
> 
> Maybe it somehow reset off? I never hard of this, but worth a look.
> 
> 
> 
> I am really trying to help you get TVGOS



I just checked and as of Sat. 1:50 PM NO TVGOS.


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21492157
> 
> 
> I just took my DTVPAL Converter box out and hooed it up and it did not pick up TVGOS. So that is 3 devices at my location that have not picked it up.



Just FYI, a DTVPal converter box (TR-40) does not "pick up" TVGOS for it's guide (it's guide is PSIP-only), it will only convert TVGOS to legacy VBI format for some other device to pick up. Now the DTVPal DVR (TR-50) is a different story.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70* /forum/post/21492813
> 
> 
> Just FYI, a DTVPal converter box (TR-40) does not "pick up" TVGOS for it's guide (it's guide is PSIP-only), it will only convert TVGOS to legacy VBI format for some other device to pick up. Now the DTVPal DVR (TR-50) is a different story.



You know I missed that. Read right over it. Yes the converter does not display Tvguide.


I assumed he was talking about DTVpal


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21492755
> 
> 
> I just checked and as of Sat. 1:50 PM NO TVGOS.



You did not answer 90% of my questions. Please answer each question. Otherwise you make it impossible to help you


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21492901
> 
> 
> You did not answer 90% of my questions. Please answer each question. Otherwise you make it impossible to help you



No good deed goes unpunished!


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21492901
> 
> 
> You did not answer 90% of my questions. Please answer each question. Otherwise you make it impossible to help you



His answers are embedded right past your questions in the quoted part.


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg Coppa* /forum/post/21492326
> 
> 
> How do you get your signal - OTA, Time Warner, etc.? Thanks.



I'm receiving the signal OTA via the built in tuner in my tv.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21492926
> 
> 
> No good deed goes unpunished!



Ya about ready to give up


----------



## icemannyr

Besides the issue with the artifacts on transitions of video I have to say on WNBC-DT is looking much better with the 4.4 sub channel gone.

Between WCBS and WNBC the PQ on WNBC is way better.

WCBS has more motion artifacts then WNBC.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21494275
> 
> 
> Besides the issue with the artifacts on transitions of video I have to say on WNBC-DT is looking much better with the 4.4 sub channel gone.
> 
> Between WCBS and WNBC the PQ on WNBC is way better.
> 
> WCBS has more motion artifacts then WNBC.



FIOS has a screen on 4.4 that says it was taken down and they give a number to call to demand a better fair rate. So maybe this was a pricing issue?


----------



## SnellKrell

NBC chose to give up braodcasting Universal Sports OTA to cable/satellite.


It currently is being carried by DirecTV.


----------



## rosscan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21494275
> 
> 
> Besides the issue with the artifacts on transitions of video I have to say on WNBC-DT is looking much better with the 4.4 sub channel gone.
> 
> Between WCBS and WNBC the PQ on WNBC is way better.
> 
> WCBS has more motion artifacts then WNBC.



It's not just transitions unfortunately, any panning shots and sometimes static shots too based on the adjacent motion. I already contacted a WNBC engineer directly through email. He asked if it was through OTA or a provider, hopefully will get another followup on Monday.


----------



## Greg Coppa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Lococco* /forum/post/21492973
> 
> 
> I'm receiving the signal OTA via the built in tuner in my tv.



Thanks for the reply - another question, what make and model TV?


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rosscan* /forum/post/21494534
> 
> 
> It's not just transitions unfortunately, any panning shots and sometimes static shots too based on the adjacent motion. I already contacted a WNBC engineer directly through email. He asked if it was through OTA or a provider, hopefully will get another followup on Monday.



Checked WNBC and you are correct the effect is still there on panning shots.

It's the same OTA or FiOS.


----------



## LenL

Still not received at my house.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21496779
> 
> 
> Still not received at my house.



Speculation on: Maybe WCBS does not have TVGOS on full time. Maybe they turned it on and off again as part of their tests, and some units got data, others didn't?


I'll ask my sources about the status.


----------



## Roger Lococco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg Coppa* /forum/post/21495844
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply - another question, what make and model TV?



it's a 19" Magnavox, I'm too lazy to get behind it to see the actual model number







Now that 2.2 and the bouncing blue box "test" are gone again, things are back to normal and in sync. I did notice on the local CBS morning news today on the fade to black to a commercial, it pixelated a tiny bit, just like 11.1, I've never noticed that on 2.1 before.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21497341
> 
> 
> Speculation on: Maybe WCBS does not have TVGOS on full time. Maybe they turned it on and off again as part of their tests, and some units got data, others didn't?
> 
> 
> I'll ask my sources about the status.



Yes, You might be correct. As promised (Man of my word) I called my Aunt. Had her check again.


Yesterday she had 7 days of guide (TVGOS) Last night the Dtvpal had the TVguide Logo on ,but only showed 3 days of info for 2.1 and 4.1. She did not check the rest. So that must be PSIP.


As of 10 am this morning I asked to check when I was on the phone. She still see's the Tvguide logo and has Information for the FULL 7 days.


It must be that CBS is doing testing and turning it off and on.


She tells me she really hates PSIP. Lack of 7 days, wrong time, mis-labeling info. TVGOS for all it lacks is sure the best Antenna based guide. Only thing better is Internet. But then you would need a box like the CM-7400 that uses internet for guide at $50 per year or a Tivo.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/21492952
> 
> 
> His answers are embedded right past your questions in the quoted part.



I stand corrected and did not see his responses. Thanks for letting me know.


Sorry LenL


PS LenL since it is past 36 hours I think you need to try a factory reset again.


----------



## rosscan

UGH, already rearing it's ugly head on the Golden Globes, this will be painful


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rosscan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> UGH, already rearing it's ugly head on the Golden Globes, this will be painful



You got something in your setup. Looks fine for me on my $2500 55" Samsung with a TiVo, on my $500 37" vizio and on my $200 22 inch vizio. I don't see or ever saw those artifacts you've been uploading.


----------



## rosscan

It's on all of my TVs And TiVo (Fios), plus checked from an OTA antenna as well. It's strictly on WNBC. Also these aren't constant, it's like a pulsing of artifacts, then goes back to clear, whenever there's a moving shot


----------



## icemannyr

I'm noticing artifacts in the background on the wide shots of the audience on The Golden Globe Awards.

Checked OTA and FiOS, they are getting the same problem so the feed must be the same.


A quick video from the intro to the news update in MPEG2 TS file.

If you look at the sky on the bridge and skyline shots you can see the artifacts that appear and a second or two later go away.

They also appear on the wood wall behind Pat at the news desk and go way as the lower third graphic goes off.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1QWZKWSH


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21497750
> 
> 
> I stand corrected and did not see his responses. Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> 
> Sorry LenL
> 
> 
> PS LenL since it is past 36 hours I think you need to try a factory reset again.



Still nothing this AM after doing resets etc...Signal strength in the 90s.


----------



## rcodey

After having TVGOS for several days last week the data has gone awol the last 2 days. It was not unusual for WCBS to fail to send the data on a Sunday but 2 days is unusual.

I'm on Comcast in Northern NJ.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21500227
> 
> 
> Still nothing this AM after doing resets etc...Signal strength in the 90s.



So I really do not know what to tell you.


I am assuming you had TVGOS before? So it is not your antenna?


I am not in front of the box. I do not know when I will be able to look for you.


BUT


I remember there was a menu option to turn off TVGOS? I sewar I remembering it. Someone else know what I am talking about?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21502228
> 
> 
> So I really do not know what to tell you.
> 
> 
> I am assuming you had TVGOS before? So it is not your antenna?
> 
> 
> I am not in front of the box. I do not know when I will be able to look for you.
> 
> 
> BUT
> 
> 
> I remember there was a menu option to turn off TVGOS? I sewar I remembering it. Someone else know what I am talking about?



I had it on both devices. And there is NO way to turn it off. Just like there is no way to turn it on. It is either sent and you recieve it or it is not sent. I have not tried putting in a bogus zip code to see what would happen but perhaps that would stop the PAL DVR from receiving TVGOS.


----------



## NervousCat

HDTVExpert.com has a review of those super flat indoor antennas (one of them is the Mohu Leaf):

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=1619


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21502443
> 
> 
> I had it on both devices. And there is NO way to turn it off. Just like there is no way to turn it on. It is either sent and you recieve it or it is not sent. I have not tried putting in a bogus zip code to see what would happen but perhaps that would stop the PAL DVR from receiving TVGOS.



You can ask in the PAl forum, but I remember a universal zip code for ny. was it 00000? Anyway you can ask there. Maybe try


----------



## rosscan

Wow, it's looking even worse tonight. Decided to call Verizon just to double check it's not just us. Thankfully, they've had quite a few complaints and are definitely looking into it.


----------



## icemannyr

I hope WCBS does something to improve their video quality.

Even on The Late Show video with minimal camera and object motion during interviews any time someone moves there are motion artifacts on them.


Has anyone else noticed the PQ on WNYW-DT is gotten worse?

The video transitions on network and local programming look terrible with heavy artifacts and macroblocking.

On the NFL broadcasts the swimming grass effect on the turf is real bad.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21504394
> 
> 
> I hope WCBS does something to improve their video quality.
> 
> Even on The Late Show video with minimal camera and object motion during interviews any time someone moves there are motion artifacts on them.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed the PQ on WNYW-DT is gotten worse?
> 
> The video transitions on network and local programming look terrible with heavy artifacts and macroblocking.
> 
> On the NFL broadcasts the swimming grass effect on the turf is real bad.



I thought the Giant game on Sunday looked pretty good. I haven't noticed anything unusual.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21504394
> 
> 
> I hope WCBS does something to improve their video quality.
> 
> Even on The Late Show video with minimal camera and object motion during interviews any time someone moves there are motion artifacts on them.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed the PQ on WNYW-DT is gotten worse?
> 
> The video transitions on network and local programming look terrible with heavy artifacts and macroblocking.
> 
> On the NFL broadcasts the swimming grass effect on the turf is real bad.



that i did see on fox 5, it looked horrible. it was equally as horrible on my9 also. the game looked fine though.


----------



## icemannyr

Here's a good example of the heavy digital compression on cross fades and cuts from camera to camera on WNBC-DT.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21508083
> 
> 
> Here's a good example of the heavy digital compression on cross fades and cuts from camera to camera on WNBC-DT.



What are we looking for exactly? The fuzz on the second pic?


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21508129
> 
> 
> What are we looking for exactly? The fuzz on the second pic?



If you look at the first pic which is right after the camera shot changed you can see the extra digital compression artifacts which go away a half second later on the second pic.
  


WNYW-DT has the same problem except the artifacts on video transitions stay around longer before they clear up.

The first has the extra artifacts and they clear up in the second pic.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21508129
> 
> 
> What are we looking for exactly? The fuzz on the second pic?



Look at the picture on the left.


The woman in the red skirt - look at the pattern on her stockings.

Also look at Al Roker's suit and its pattern.


Then look at the differences on the picture to the right.


Those are things that I see.


Hope that helps.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21508351
> 
> 
> Look at the picture on the left.
> 
> 
> The woman in the red skirt - look at the pattern on her stockings.
> 
> Also look at Al Roker's suit and its pattern.
> 
> 
> Then look at the differences on the picture to the right.
> 
> 
> Those are things that I see.
> 
> 
> Hope that helps.



I call it fuzz. I can see how it would be annoying.


What is the cause? Compression? Encoding issue?


----------



## icemannyr

I find it odd WNBC is having these problems after deleting a sub channel.

You would expect the PQ to improve.


As for WNYW-DT I don't know why their video is so bad.

They have one SD sub channel. Not sure if they have a mobile DTV feed.

Watching the 10pm news just now there's a heavy amount of video compression noise artifacts in the background.


I also find it funny My9 refuses to tape stores in 16:9 SD when those reports will air on FOX5.

My9 may have no interest in broadcasting news in HD but they should at least be taping stories in 16:9.


----------



## rosscan

I received a response email today from a WNBC engineer:



> Quote:
> We are following up. There have been some changes recently, but the cable change didn't happen until Wednesday last week. Over the air was done the week before. The changes included an increase in bandwidth for WNBC so the images should have improved.
> 
> 
> More to come on this.


----------



## icemannyr

Good to know WNBC is working on their feed.


I wonder if WCBS has or plans make any adjustments to try and reduce the motion artifacts?

Is there feed just simply to sharp and that is part of the problem?

CBSNY+ 2.2 is back on the air with the blue box moving up and down with audio tone.


----------



## keyboard21

Hey Ken,


Did you ever answer my question about CBS 2.2 update? When will it be airing? Not sure if you did and I just missed it


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ken,
> 
> 
> Did you ever answer my question about CBS 2.2 update? When will it be airing? Not sure if you did and I just missed it



i hope they start up soon just so u can stop asking every day


----------



## SubaruB4

WNBC is down?


It's gone from my channel list


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC OTA coming in loud and clear!


----------



## SubaruB4

Odd.. I don't like how this Samsung tv adds and removes my OTA channels at will. it's gone now but I guess it will be back this afternoon.


----------



## SnellKrell

Can you manually tune-in WNBC?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21515808
> 
> 
> i hope they start up soon just so u can stop asking every day



I do not ask every day. Maybe you meant to say every 2 weeks? I guess you lost the count.










Just wait till I start asking about Bounce TV coming on 9.2


----------



## SnellKrell

Sorry to burst your bubble - but the 2.2 test pattern and tone are gone!!!!


----------



## DevOne

I wish WCBS-DT would simply shelve CBS+ 2.2 and look to WLNY-DT for all it's "KCAL East" desires.


----------



## SnellKrell

The KCAL analogy with WLNY really doesn't work.


KCAL is a Los Angeles station with a long history in that city, albeit with other

call letters and ownership.


WLNY is a suburban station with Long Island oriented news and loads of local,

Long Island commercials.


WLNY is more like KDOC out of Anaheim, Orange County, not really a local Los Angeles station.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The KCAL analogy with WLNY really doesn't work.
> 
> 
> KCAL is a Los Angeles station with a long history in that city, albeit with other
> 
> call letters and ownership.
> 
> 
> WLNY is a suburban station with Long Island oriented news and loads of local,
> 
> Long Island commercials.
> 
> 
> WLNY is more like KDOC out of Anaheim, Orange County, not really a local Los Angeles station.



WWOR is/was a NJ station and look what Fox turned it into despite it COL being Secaucus. Look what WNET has done to WLIW and the old NJN. Regardless of what the station is doing now, expect CBS to do what is most economically feasible and profitable even if it means doing the least amount of required local content.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bogney Baux* /forum/post/2410532
> 
> 
> WNYE-DT was last on the air about 1.5 years ago.



Really, then what am I watching now?

WNYE1 25.1 Talk Stoop


----------



## SnellKrell

That NJ history goes back way before FOX took over.


The station's license was moved to NJ in 1987 and owned by MCA; then in 1991 by Pinelands; 1993 it was Chris Craft; and then finally Rupert renounced his Austrailan

citiizenship and in 2000 he became an American citizen and FOX got the station -

in in NJ.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21518282
> 
> 
> WWOR is/was a NJ station and look what Fox turned it into despite it COL being Secaucus. Look what WNET has done to WLIW and the old NJN. Regardless of what the station is doing now, expect CBS to do what is most economically feasible and profitable even if it means doing the least amount of required local content.



Bad analogy. Those stations' COLs are only a few miles away from NYC. WLNY's COL is over 70 miles away.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Bad analogy. Those stations' COLs are only a few miles away from NYC. WLNY's COL is over 70 miles away.



Distance between COL doesnt matter as much as market it serves. WLNY and WCBS both serve the NYC DMA & may have different OTA coverage but have same cable & satellite coverage in the market. like Devone said, it will be run like a KCAL east.


----------



## SnellKrell

The distance does matter!


Different demographics, different shops, different shopping patterns, different local advertising.


It's not the "NYC DMA," it's the "NY DMA." If one were to agree with you, therefore, Bridgeport, CT would be considered the same as a station financially and demographically connected to our area.


Whether you agree or not, it's a different world!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The distance does matter!
> 
> 
> Different demographics, different shops, different shopping patterns, different local advertising.
> 
> 
> It's not the "NYC DMA," it's the "NY DMA." If one were to agree with you, therefore, Bridgeport, CT would be considered the same as a station financially and demographically connected to our area.
> 
> 
> Whether you agree or not, it's a different world!



bridgeport no, greenwich yes.


----------



## SnellKrell

I saw it OTA on 5.1, then it was removed.


By the time I switched to 5.2 it was gone.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21522549
> 
> 
> bridgeport no, greenwich yes.



Any news on Bounce TV on 9.2


Thanks


----------



## TrueBlue334

I just canceled cable, and I was planning on just plugging the coax that is no longer plugged into the cable box directly into my HDTVs. They are both newer HDTVs, so I don't think I need the QAM/ATSC converter.


I've been reading a bit about this and it appears that by doing what I did, all I'm doing is delivering an analog signal from the cable coax to my TV. I get some channels (both HD and non-HD channels), but other channels don't come up (I think because of low signal strength). The channels that don't come up include CBS-HD and FOX-HD.


I'm wondering what I can do to get as many of the local channels in HD as possible. Ideally, I just want 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 21 available in HD. I guess it's an added bonus that NY1 comes up also.


Do I need to buy a digital converter box for $40? Will I have antenna issues if I do that? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey TrueBlue334, welcome to the AVS Forums!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TrueBlue334* /forum/post/21529556
> 
> 
> I just canceled cable, and I was planning on just plugging the coax that is no longer plugged into the cable box directly into my HDTVs. They are both newer HDTVs, so I don't think I need the QAM/ATSC converter.
> 
> 
> I've been reading a bit about this and it appears that by doing what I did, all I'm doing is delivering an analog signal from the cable coax to my TV. I get some channels (both HD and non-HD channels), but other channels don't come up (I think because of low signal strength). The channels that don't come up include CBS-HD and FOX-HD.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering what I can do to get as many of the local channels in HD as possible. Ideally, I just want 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 21 available in HD. I guess it's an added bonus that NY1 comes up also.
> 
> 
> Do I need to buy a digital converter box for $40? Will I have antenna issues if I do that? Thanks in advance.



Do you have a television antenna connected to the coaxial cable that once carried the pay cable TV service? Without an antenna connected to your TVs, you will get nothing unless you live one block away from the ESB










If you have an antenna connected now, there is no way you are "delivering an analog signal" because all analog broadcast TV has been discontinued in this market, except for WNYZ-LP New York on Channel 6, but that station isn't providing any visual transmissions as they are supposed to be.


And by "NY1" do you mean "NYC TV" on WNYE-TV? Because NY1 is only available over cable TV.


As to whether you need a digital converter box, that depends on your TVs. Look at the back of them and look for the term "ATSC", if it is there, you do not need the box. If you cannot look at the backs of the TVs, consult the manual or search their model numbers online and locate the manual online. Alternately you can contact the manufacturers and inquire if these TVs have a built-in ATSC tuner. If you use a converter, you will get all the free DTV signals available at your location, but they will be down-converted from an HD to an SD signal. An SD signal is not an analog signal, it is a down-converted digital signal.


----------



## kickass69




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21529875
> 
> 
> Hey TrueBlue334, welcome to the AVS Forums!
> 
> 
> Do you have a television antenna connected to the coaxial cable that once carried the pay cable TV service? Without an antenna connected to your TVs, you will get nothing unless you live one block away from the ESB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have an antenna connected now, there is no way you are "delivering an analog signal" because all analog broadcast TV has been discontinued in this market, except for WNYZ-LP New York on Channel 6, but that station isn't providing any visual transmissions as they are supposed to be.
> 
> 
> And by "NY1" do you mean "NYC TV" on WNYE-TV? Because NY1 is only available over cable TV.
> 
> 
> As to whether you need a digital converter box, that depends on your TVs. Look at the back of them and look for the term "ATSC", if it is there, you do not need the box. If you cannot look at the backs of the TVs, consult the manual or search their model numbers online and locate the manual online. Alternately you can contact the manufacturers and inquire if these TVs have a built-in ATSC tuner. If you use a converter, you will get all the free DTV signals available at your location, but they will be down-converted from an HD to an SD signal. An SD signal is not an analog signal, it is a down-converted digital signal.



Actually Giacomo, what Trueblue is talking about is it seems is plugging in the coax from the cable outlet on the wall to the back of his HDTV since NY1 is mentioned.


Trueblue, you realize since you canceled your cable tv service...trying to get channels through said service is illegal and you could be fined and jailed for it...even with it being as simple as what you're suggesting. Better off using a pair of rabbit ears.


----------



## Daniel Perales

Hi all!


I haven't posted in a while, and I haven't been watching TV much, either.


Anyway, I was tuning into ION TV (OTA, btw), and suddenly, I'm seeing all these sub-channels that I never seen before.


The extra channels are: 31.100, 31.200, 31.201, 31.202, 31.203, 31.204, 31.300, and 31.400.


The funny thing is, my tv's tuner (I have an old 2003 vintage Mits 55inch RPCRT with an intergrated DTV tuner) is picking these channels up, but there's nothing playing on them, with the exception of 31.300 and 31.400 which shows the same thing on channel 31.01, for now.


So, what are these "phantom channels", if anyone has any ideas?



Danny


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...r-TV-Floats-In 


- Trip


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21531980
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...r-TV-Floats-In
> 
> 
> - Trip




Just what we need. Another form of pay-tv.











Danny


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Daniel Perales* /forum/post/21532511
> 
> 
> Just what we need. Another form of pay-tv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Danny



Ok how is this PAY tv?


are these just not more SUB-CHANNELS?

http://www.ionair.tv/main.php


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok how is this PAY tv?
> 
> 
> are these just not more SUB-CHANNELS?
> 
> http://www.ionair.tv/main.php



Looks like you pay for what you want to watch on the computer, phone or tablet. Looks like you can get espn also. But I still don't understand how this works over UHF or why it's being broadcasted over the airwaves.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21532682
> 
> 
> Looks like you pay for what you want to watch on the computer, phone or tablet. Looks like you can get espn also. But I still don't understand how this works over UHF or why it's being broadcasted over the airwaves.



You know I remember. Showing my age here. Back in the early 1980's. There was a channel that tried to complete with HBO. It was UHF only and needed a converter to see it. I was given a portable B&W tv. I was able to get a steady picture for a few minutes. Maybe this will be something similar. Of course you would need to buy a de-scrambler from them


Plus all the movies on that website are Asian. Seems limited audience.


I always wonder how much money the cable company's make on Pay per view movies. If so might be a good model. BUT if that is the case. Why not buy a APPLE TV or Rokiu


----------



## speedlaw

What is the story with the digital channel 2 broadcaster ?


I find two subchannels, both SD, with televanglists. It caused problems when I was rescanning with WCBS-DT, as my set would map 2 to this VHF 2, and ignore virtual 2, losing CBS DT. I eventually worked around by pulling the antenna for the first few seconds of autoscan, but now I get 2.1 WCBS, and 2.2 gets me the second subchannel for VHF 2. I've checked diagnostics and it really is at 57 mhz ota.


I'm about 40 miles north on the Hudson, and using a pre transition "far fringe" antenna, so I have good VHF lo sensitivity. I never had to change for transition, as I already had a big UHF array....I'd not taken it down because it works, and if it ain't broke......I can't imagine, based on signal strength, that this is an easy to receive station for anyone-but I can easily see it causing havoc with any OTA person.


I don't think there is another example of a virtual and actual channel with this sort of conflict. You either have, say VHF hi 7, with channel "7" on it, or a virtual channel with no relation to the RF channel. You don't have the actual RF channel occupied by one broadcaster with that virtual channel "used" by another broadcaster.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21532711
> 
> 
> You know I remember. Showing my age here. Back in the early 1980's. There was a channel that tried to complete with HBO. It was UHF only and needed a converter to see it. I was given a portable B&W tv. I was able to get a steady picture for a few minutes. Maybe this will be something similar. Of course you would need to buy a de-scrambler from them
> 
> 
> Plus all the movies on that website are Asian. Seems limited audience.
> 
> 
> I always wonder how much money the cable company's make on Pay per view movies. If so might be a good model. BUT if that is the case. Why not buy a APPLE TV or Rokiu



In 1954, Zenith's "Phonevision" was tested over Channel 9, then WOR-TV, with a scrambled signal.


"Phonevision" was the world's first Pay TV system.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21532931
> 
> 
> In 1954, Zenith's "Phonevision" was tested over Channel 9, then WOR-TV, with a scrambled signal.
> 
> 
> "Phonevision" was the world's first Pay TV system.



Thanks but was not the one I was thinking of. It was a different name. It was high UHF like 68. It shown light adult stuff at night. That is part of the pay only reason I think


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21532944
> 
> 
> Thanks but was not the one I was thinking of. It was a different name. It was high UHF like 68. It shown light adult stuff at night. That is part of the pay only reason I think



There was a subscrition service on WWHT ch. 68 in late 70's that was one of the first stations to transmit from the World Trade Center. It became Home Shopping for a while and today it's WFUT Telefutura


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21533030
> 
> 
> There was a subscrition service on WWHT ch. 68 in late 70's that was one of the first stations to transmit from the World Trade Center. It became Home Shopping for a while and today it's WFUT Telefutura



What was the name because I remember it in 1980 to 84


WWHT sounds familiar. There was a catchy name though


----------



## SnellKrell

Wometco Home Theater


----------



## StudioTech

WHT also carried a few of the area's sports teams as well.


----------



## ja2bk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21533074
> 
> 
> What was the name because I remember it in 1980 to 84
> 
> 
> WWHT sounds familiar. There was a catchy name though



U-68 perhaps?


----------



## StudioTech

U-68 came later in the mid 80s. All music videos. Didn't last long.


----------



## icemannyr

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wometco_Home_Theater


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The distance does matter!
> 
> 
> Different demographics, different shops, different shopping patterns, different local advertising.
> 
> 
> It's not the "NYC DMA," it's the "NY DMA." If one were to agree with you, therefore, Bridgeport, CT would be considered the same as a station financially and demographically connected to our area.
> 
> 
> Whether you agree or not, it's a different world!



In case you're not aware, technology exists that an ad for a mom and pop bakery on the East End of Long Island doesn't need to be played in Riverhead and can be done on West 57th. Demographics, distance may make a difference in programming and ads but operationally it doesn't. Expect most functions to be run out of CBS HQ with skeletal staff on LI. Here are examples of a duopoly and efficiencies in a market:


A major news story may be carried on 2 then moved to 55 because of a major football game.


A breaking story in East Hampton involving celebrities at 4:30pm may be reported by a 55 reporter but seen on ch2 @ 5pm and nationally on CBS evening news at 6:30.


LIPA power outage reported by 2 and same reporter may do a live remote with a 2 mic flag filing a report for 55 at 10pm


55 reporter doing reports for WFAN, WINS, WCBS radio stations


A car dealer with showrooms across 5 boros and long island. He goes to WCBS ad sales team. They sell him a spot on 2 for $10000 and customize a spot listing only his Suffolk location and run it on 55 for $500.


So u guys get over the distance between station office locations, demographics, and city of license.


----------



## icemannyr

Checking WNBC 4.1 today the artifacts on panning camera shots seem worse then its ever been.

Besides that issue the video is very clean.

The transitions of camera shots seem don't have the artifacts.


Wanted to add that the PQ on WCBS-DT is not any better.

The motion artifacts on the football game were same has previous weeks.

I was checking some old recordings from 2008 and there is almost no motion artifacts and the video is very clean.

Could it be that WCBS is simply encoding the video stream with to much sharpness that is enhancing the motion artifacts.


----------



## SnellKrell

"In case you're not aware, technology exists that an ad for a mom and pop bakery on the East End of Long Island doesn't need to be played in Riverhead and can be done on West 57th. "


Yes, I'm very much aware of the ability of cable and now satellite companies to insert local commercials.


But my comment pertained to OTA. With WLNY's low-powered stations not being sold to CBS, do you know of technology that will allow different commercials to be run?


"A breaking story in East Hampton involving celebrities..."


A story about celebrities can be considered national news, the beauty of local stations is that the are stories that are indigenous - ones that are important to a community and not a wide audience.


"A car dealer with showrooms across 5 boros and long island."


Don't forget the smaller car dealer with only a local on the Island.


I just hope that your view of 57th Street gobbling up this local station is exaggerated.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/21534182
> 
> 
> U-68 came later in the mid 80s. All music videos. Didn't last long.



I remember movies and light adult entertainment at night


----------



## Daniel Perales




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21533087
> 
> 
> Wometco Home Theater




That's what came to mind when I said "Pay-TV". We used to subcribed to it for a while (like about a year).


When my mom terminated the subcription, they took the box, but left the antenna behind.



Danny


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Yes, I'm very much aware of the ability of cable and now satellite companies to insert local commercials.
> 
> 
> But my comment pertained to OTA. With WLNY's low-powered stations not being sold to CBS, do you know of technology that will allow different commercials to be run?
> 
> 
> .



I don't think different commercials are being aired between the main transmitter and the LPs but of course without the use of those, CBS can feed cable companies the WLNY signal via fiber and customize the different feeds. The different feeds would likely be to replace syndicated shows that can't be shown in a particular area rather than narrowcast local ads.


----------



## Trip in VA

WABC is looking to further boost power from 26.9 kW to 34 kW.


- Trip


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21536522
> 
> 
> I remember movies and light adult entertainment at night



WWHT tried music videos for a while as U-68, they also tried business news by day, and they also aired old TV shows like Green Acres. They scrambled the signal at night, and for a while, a mid day movie as well, as WHT or Wometco Home Theater. You needed to lease a box that would unscramble the signal. You also had to turn down the volume on the TV and turn up the volume on the box, which contained a small speaker. It was an awkward way to watch movies and as cable made inroads into the city, WHT lost viewers. It became WHSN airing the Home Shopping Network before being bought out by a Spanish language network.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw* /forum/post/21532903
> 
> 
> What is the story with the digital channel 2 broadcaster ?
> 
> 
> I find two subchannels, both SD, with televanglists. It caused problems when I was rescanning with WCBS-DT, as my set would map 2 to this VHF 2, and ignore virtual 2, losing CBS DT. I eventually worked around by pulling the antenna for the first few seconds of autoscan, but now I get 2.1 WCBS, and 2.2 gets me the second subchannel for VHF 2. I've checked diagnostics and it really is at 57 mhz ota.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think there is another example of a virtual and actual channel with this sort of conflict. You either have, say VHF hi 7, with channel "7" on it, or a virtual channel with no relation to the RF channel. You don't have the actual RF channel occupied by one broadcaster with that virtual channel "used" by another broadcaster.



Could you be seeing WKOB which is on RF ch 2 with the Daystar network as well as a (last I checked) Spanish language network?


As for conflicts, there is one in NYC: WNYE RF 24, virtual 25 and WASA RF 25, virtual 24. My set picks up both and their subs on 24, so that there are two channel 24s and two 24.1s. The latter is licensed to Port Jervis, NY but transmits from NYC as does WNYE.


WCBS has been working on 2.2, a local all news channel. They have been periodically activating and deactivating the .2 sub as they work out some technical issue.


----------



## rosscan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21535483
> 
> 
> Checking WNBC 4.1 today the artifacts on panning camera shots seem worse then its ever been.
> 
> Besides that issue the video is very clean.
> 
> The transitions of camera shots seem don't have the artifacts.



Definitely worse, wish they could just go back to whatever algorithms they used to use


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21539378
> 
> 
> WABC is looking to further boost power from 26.9 kW to 34 kW.
> 
> 
> - Trip



This is great news! Although this is one of my better channels for reception even though it is VHF!


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WABC is looking to further boost power from 26.9 kW to 34 kW.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Now only if ABC would allocate more than 9Mbs to the main channel, the shows wouldn't look like crap. every show is dark on abc. you can tell the difference when at the end of the show they show the preview for the next episode.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*TELOS ALTERNATIVE HEALTH NETWORK NOW AVAILABLE IN NEW YORK CITY*


Effective Tuesday, January 24, 2012, The Telos Alternative Health Network is now available to the New York City area via WKOB-LD New York, Channel 42-1.


From their website TELOS : Telos is a Digital Television Network designed to present alternatives to traditional medicine. By expanding Global perspectives on medical practices, treatments, HMO's, PPO's and Insurance options around the globe, we provide our audience with options in making informed health choices. The Telos Alternative Health Network database of Alternative and Integrated Physicians are primarily MD's & PhD's In traditional medicine. We offer information that you will not see on traditional television networks.


Telos is also available in two other east coast U.S. cities: Philadelphia, PA. and Portland, ME. Other U.S. cities include Atlanta, GA., Chicago, IL., as well as San Juan, Puerto Rico.


----------



## Trip in VA

I read that and all I can think is


WKOB - Home of the "Channel of the Month Club."


- Trip


----------



## rosscan

Hope I'm not speaking too soon, but the Jimmy Fallon rerun from last week looks greatly improved compared to the original airing. Maybe it's fixed? Will have to see more to be sure


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21544485
> 
> *TELOS ALTERNATIVE HEALTH NETWORK NOW AVAILABLE IN NEW YORK CITY*
> 
> 
> Effective Tuesday, January 24, 2012, The Telos Alternative Health Network is now available to the New York City area via WKOB-LD New York, Channel 42-1.
> 
> 
> From their website TELOS : Telos is a Digital Television Network designed to present alternatives to traditional medicine. By expanding Global perspectives on medical practices, treatments, HMO's, PPO's and Insurance options around the globe, we provide our audience with options in making informed health choices. The Telos Alternative Health Network database of Alternative and Integrated Physicians are primarily MD's & PhD's In traditional medicine. We offer information that you will not see on traditional television networks.
> 
> 
> Telos is also available in two other east coast U.S. cities: Philadelphia, PA. and Portland, ME. Other U.S. cities include Atlanta, GA., Chicago, IL., as well as San Juan, Puerto Rico.



I would be interested in checking it out if I could receive it but I am too far from the transmitter.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21544497
> 
> 
> I read that and all I can think is
> 
> 
> WKOB - Home of the "Channel of the Month Club."
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well instead of wasting their time on different channels. How about fixing the power so people can receive it.


Did they every fix PQ?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Well instead of wasting their time on different channels. How about fixing the power so people can receive it.
> 
> 
> Did they every fix PQ?



The programmers buying time on the channel probably have no idea that the station reaches 3 viewers and are sold on the fact they are in DMA #1. The station is likely looking for cable carriage to reach a wider audience and knows no one can receive the signal.


----------



## SnellKrell

"The station is likely looking for cable carriage to reach a wider audience and knows no one can receive the signal."



Bingo!


----------



## rosscan

The issues definitely appear to be resolved on WNBC, adding to that, the bitrate is even higher now, about a 15.30mbps average and saw a peak over 16.


----------



## LenL

This is the text of a message I received Thursday from ROVI regarding my issues receiving TVGOS in the NYC area:


Data was back for a few days, but does appear to be down again. Engineers are

investigating, and we are hopeful that the issue will be resolved soon. This ticket is

being moved to our escalation queue, and once an update is received here we will contact

you. Your patience is appreciated.


CE Technical Support

Rovi


----------



## AloEuro

In the beginning it was thought to make Full Scan then Add Scan not to loose the chnnels of Full Scan, now the Full Scan is part of entertainement even more exciting than would be the rep. debates. All Scans must pass thru VCR to DVD to TV.

2 weeks ago I had 58 ch. later down to 43ch. then up to 47ch. to current 54ch. minus edited out doubles/some made Not Viewable to solid 35ch.

One converter box does only one pass Full Scan under 1minute, it has Median range 803/806 Mhz

the other one used to do 2passes under 5 minute -first pass 1 min second pass 4minutes- but last Full Scan did over 7 minutes, it has maximum range 860/865 Mhz, that means that there is "heavy traffic" in air the box picks up and reject, it is indication that FCC is selling lot of air space to iphones companies


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21556309
> 
> 
> This is the text of a message I received Thursday from ROVI regarding my issues receiving TVGOS in the NYC area:
> 
> 
> Data was back for a few days, but does appear to be down again. Engineers are
> 
> investigating, and we are hopeful that the issue will be resolved soon. This ticket is
> 
> being moved to our escalation queue, and once an update is received here we will contact
> 
> you. Your patience is appreciated.
> 
> 
> CE Technical Support
> 
> Rovi



Yes LenL I can confirm it is down. I seen it with my own eyes today. Funny how the DTVpal still showed the TVguide Logo, but no 7 day info. I wonder why the logo did not go off with the signal?????

I reset to factory defaults because some channels where freezing box. So now Tvguide logo off and still not back.


Also channel 9.2 is freezing still on the DTVpal for about 5 seconds before it will let you change channels. Do you get the same?


I wish CBS get's their act together.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21558748
> 
> 
> Yes LenL I can confirm it is down. I seen it with my own eyes today. Funny how the DTVpal still showed the TVguide Logo, but no 7 day info. I wonder why the logo did not go off with the signal?????
> 
> I reset to factory defaults because some channels where freezing box. So now Tvguide logo off and still not back.
> 
> 
> Also channel 9.2 is freezing still on the DTVpal for about 5 seconds before it will let you change channels. Do you get the same?
> 
> 
> I wish CBS get's their act together.



Perhaps our moderator who has some contact with CBS and sometimes gets the truth from them can make some inquiries on our behalf?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21561018
> 
> 
> Perhaps our moderator who has some contact with CBS and sometimes gets the truth from them can make some inquiries on our behalf?



Oh KEN where are you? lol


----------



## SnellKrell

Most likely hiding!


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21558748
> 
> 
> Yes LenL I can confirm it is down. I seen it with my own eyes today. Funny how the DTVpal still showed the TVguide Logo, but no 7 day info. I wonder why the logo did not go off with the signal?????
> 
> I reset to factory defaults because some channels where freezing box. So now Tvguide logo off and still not back.
> 
> 
> Also channel 9.2 is freezing still on the DTVpal for about 5 seconds before it will let you change channels. Do you get the same?
> 
> 
> I wish CBS get's their act together.



If CBS eventually decides they're not going carry TVGOS due to all the technical difficulties, is there another station that would provide the service?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21561644
> 
> 
> If CBS eventually decides they're not going carry TVGOS due to all the technical difficulties, is there another station that would provide the service?



Trip in VA has a website that posts a list of TVGOS through out the country.


CBS is #1 and PBS is #2 and then a few other Spanish stations carry the signal.


So the answer is yes if CBS gives up. What makes you think another channel will not have same problems?


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21561717
> 
> 
> Trip in VA has a website that posts a list of TVGOS through out the country.
> 
> 
> CBS is #1 and PBS is #2 and then a few other Spanish stations carry the signal.
> 
> 
> So the answer is yes if CBS gives up. What makes you think another channel will not have same problems?



I didn't know that PBS was the alternate for TVGOS in NYC. If all the criticism and bad will made CBS decide to drop TVGOS altogether, what would happen to users who cannot get PBS? PBS doesn't seem to be getting the same criticism, so possibly another channel would not, either.


----------



## SnellKrell

The other TVGOS outlet in the area, not NYC, is WEDW, Channel 49, Bridgeport, CT.


I would imagine that not many in the Metro area can receive this station.


----------



## icemannyr

On WNBC-DT I'm still noticing the artifacts but they go away much faster.

The US Freestyle Cup skiing and snowboarding event looks real good.


WCBS-DT continues to have motion artifacts on objects.

Texas vs Baylor College Basketball game is horrible.

On the main action cam the players and floor are full of motion artifacts.

Anyone have an e-mail address for WCBS?


----------



## Digital Rules

The mosquito noise on CBS is terrible here as well on that game, even on Baltimore's sub channel free O&O station.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21561644
> 
> 
> If CBS eventually decides they're not going carry TVGOS due to all the technical difficulties, is there another station that would provide the service?



See my post for the latest development on my end -



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21562546
> 
> 
> I tuned my VOOM box to KYW right at 3pm and it bombed out. Is TVGOS back or just some objectionable signal now?
> 
> 
> I've been watching KYW on the VOOM for quite some time now (ever since it first went out awhile back) and this is the first time I've had a problem since it went out.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21558748
> 
> 
> Yes LenL I can confirm it is down. I seen it with my own eyes today. Funny how the DTVpal still showed the TVguide Logo, but no 7 day info. I wonder why the logo did not go off with the signal?????
> 
> I reset to factory defaults because some channels where freezing box. So now Tvguide logo off and still not back.
> 
> 
> Also channel 9.2 is freezing still on the DTVpal for about 5 seconds before it will let you change channels. Do you get the same?
> 
> 
> I wish CBS get's their act together.



?


I'm going to try and explain this one last time. This has nothing to do with CBS. This is all Rovi. The 'fix' they provided did not work as expected. It's Rovi's software and they have to fix it. End of story.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21561567
> 
> 
> Most likely hiding!



Thanks for your support.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If CBS eventually decides they're not going carry TVGOS due to all the technical difficulties, is there another station that would provide the service?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> See my post for the latest development on my end -
> 
> 
> I tuned my VOOM box to KYW right at 3pm and it bombed out. Is TVGOS back or just some objectionable signal now?
> 
> 
> I've been watching KYW on the VOOM for quite some time now (ever since it first went out awhile back) and this is the first time I've had a problem since it went out.



These are two different issues.


1) The Voom box is known as being defective and will crash every time it sees a station with TVGOS. As I've already posted, it's highly unlikely this will ever change.


2) Viewers with TVGOS compatible hardware are concerned that CBS may drop TVGOS. As noted, PBS now carries TVGOS in some areas. It would not be out of the question for stations in existing markets where CBS is now carrying TVGOS for a PBS station to pick it up, if the opportunity arose.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21562839
> 
> 
> Thanks for your support.



Is there a time frame?


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21562940
> 
> 
> Is there a time frame?



As of now, I have no idea. I let the issue go after TVGOS came back up. I will ask my sources.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21563001
> 
> 
> As of now, I have no idea. I let the issue go after TVGOS came back up. I will ask my sources.



Thank You very much Ken.


My Aunt is complaining again.lol She really hates PSIP.


Seems like ABS 7.1 .2 .3 ALL SAY NO INFORMATION in the guide. I think ABC is not putting out PSIP. Have you heard that before?


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21562758
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> I'm going to try and explain this one last time. This has nothing to do with CBS. This is all Rovi. The 'fix' they provided did not work as expected. It's Rovi's software and they have to fix it. End of story.



Agreed and understood, but it looked like CBS got a lot of criticisim, and who could blame them if they said NO to carrying TVGOS anymore? What would happen then??


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21563280
> 
> 
> Agreed and understood, but it looked like CBS got a lot of criticisim, and who could blame them if they said NO to carrying TVGOS anymore? What would happen then??



From my comment earlier this afternoon.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21562938
> 
> 
> 2) Viewers with TVGOS compatible hardware are concerned that CBS may drop TVGOS. As noted, PBS now carries TVGOS in some areas. It would not be out of the question for stations in existing markets where CBS is now carrying TVGOS for a PBS station to pick it up, if the opportunity arose.



Having said that, in my opinion TVGOS is not long for this world. It's notorious for not being supported very well, either now by Rovi or previously by Gemstar/TV Guide. It's a technology of the past that generates very little revenue.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> From my comment earlier this afternoon.
> 
> 
> Having said that, in my opinion TVGOS is not long for this world. It's notorious for not being supported very well, either now by Rovi or previously by Gemstar/TV Guide. It's a technology of the past that generates very little revenue.



That's exactly what I said a few weeks ago. Appeasing grandmas and supporting old, obsolete technology doesn't make sense to the bottom line. Internet connected tv's and boxes will and is taking over.


----------



## rcodey

Listings started to populate today from WCBS via Comcast in Northern NJ.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21563683
> 
> 
> From my comment earlier this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> Having said that, in my opinion TVGOS is not long for this world. It's notorious for not being supported very well, either now by Rovi or previously by Gemstar/TV Guide. It's a technology of the past that generates very little revenue.



Most of my comments were directed at CBS for NOT communicating very well on this! Perhaps it is ROVI that needs to fix it but CBS flubbed up major with their lack of communication that there was a problem first and that they were pulling it. They compounded the problem by then sending it out again and then pulling it again and not communicating. I spent a lot of time fiddling with my equipment because we were told that it was back (Which it was) and then it was pulled and we did not know it and I though I had an issue with my equipment! That is BS!


Secondly why does it appear that CBS in other markets does not have an issue with TVGOS, or other stations send it without an issue? If there is a problem with ROVI it does not appear to be uiniversal as can be seen on the PALDVR forum comments!


Am I angry with CBS? You bet! Its because of their lack of communication! I don't think they care about their OTA customers!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21563823
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I said a few weeks ago. Appeasing grandmas and supporting old, obsolete technology doesn't make sense to the bottom line. Internet connected tv's and boxes will and is taking over.



I have an internet connected TV and box but getting OTA and TVGOS for my PAL DVR and 55" LED TV is far superior than watching TV on my PC or getting the TVGUIDE on my PC. A PALDVR/TV combo is superior to a PC/TV combo anyday.


I think you are using an obsolete technology.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21565062
> 
> 
> I have an internet connected TV and box but getting OTA and TVGOS for my PAL DVR and 55" LED TV is far superior than watching TV on my PC or getting the TVGUIDE on my PC. A PALDVR/TV combo is superior to a PC/TV combo anyday.
> 
> 
> I think you are using an obsolete technology.



My obsolete technology hasn't failed in 8 years, not once. My obsolete technology has two weeks of guide data, changes automatically when a last minute programming changes are made. Has full metadata that can be even searched by writer or director.


All you have been Doing for 2 months is complain that nothing is working and still not listen to what an expert here has been telling you. And the best part of all of this is your idea that they are breaking the law by not giving you a free service that they don't have to give you. Your entitlement is pretty funny.


It's going to be fun to read your posts once tvgos away for good.


On a side note. Are there any new products that are still in production or will be coming out that supports tvgos? If not, I give rovi 2 years before they kill the service.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21565053
> 
> 
> Most of my comments were directed at CBS for NOT communicating very well on this! Perhaps it is ROVI that needs to fix it but CBS flubbed up major with their lack of communication that there was a problem first and that they were pulling it. They compounded the problem by then sending it out again and then pulling it again and not communicating. I spent a lot of time fiddling with my equipment because we were told that it was back (Which it was) and then it was pulled and we did not know it and I though I had an issue with my equipment! That is BS!
> 
> 
> Secondly why does it appear that CBS in other markets does not have an issue with TVGOS, or other stations send it without an issue? If there is a problem with ROVI it does not appear to be uiniversal as can be seen on the PALDVR forum comments!
> 
> 
> Am I angry with CBS? You bet! Its because of their lack of communication! I don't think they care about their OTA customers!



Have you considered going after CBS for compensation, or at least for a refund??


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21565169
> 
> 
> Have you considered going after CBS for compensation, or at least for a refund??



Legally LenL has no case. He has not been financially harmed. He has lost no money. He would waste his time and lose any case. In legal terms we are not a customer.


That being said. I do agree that CBS had a moral obligation to put out a statement. Or Rovi had that obligation


LenL has a valid point,but no case


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21565125
> 
> 
> My obsolete technology hasn't failed in 8 years, not once. My obsolete technology has two weeks of guide data, changes automatically when a last minute programming changes are made. Has full metadata that can be even searched by writer or director.
> 
> 
> All you have been Doing for 2 months is complain that nothing is working and still not listen to what an expert here has been telling you. And the best part of all of this is your idea that they are breaking the law by not giving you a free service that they don't have to give you. Your entitlement is pretty funny.
> 
> 
> It's going to be fun to read your posts once tvgos away for good.
> 
> 
> On a side note. Are there any new products that are still in production or will be coming out that supports tvgos? If not, I give rovi 2 years before they kill the service.



No need to punish my people like my Aunt. So you can get your jolly's laughing at LenL.


You sound like a Doctor that says you have 2 years to live. There is no way you know that TVGOS only has 2 years left


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No need to punish my people like my Aunt. So you can get your jolly's laughing at LenL.
> 
> 
> You sound like a Doctor that says you have 2 years to live. There is no way you know that TVGOS only has 2 years left



I'm not punishing your aunt. Rovi and CBS are.


No technology or service lasts forever, especially when it costs more to operate (license fees, dedicated engineers, etc) as time goes and it's costumers dwindle.


Here is a tough pill to swallow, but your aunt is not their ideal costumer. Forgive me for saying, but she will not be around for a long time and she and others are being replaced by a younger demographic who look at different technology.


And I'm not laughing at Len, he decided to pick out my opinion and decide to respond with a 10 year old attitude. He is panicking because he and others are being left behind.


You don't know that they don't have 2 years to live. You are just using the other side of the argument. Have you looked at the stories and financials of Rovi? Have you seen the market analysis?


Some of you just have to step out into the real world and understand that business are not in the business to make your aunt happy, they want to make money. And tht can and will happen at your ire.


No one answered me, is their any new product that uses tvgos? I don't think so, I might be wrong but I haven't seen any. So why would CBS an Rovi want to continue spending money on something that has no financial benefit to them into the future?


I surely can't be the only one in this thread that took a business class?


This is not hard to understand, it sucks that you invested in equipment that is buggy, old, barely supported and just to many people needed to operate.


If TiVo goes under in a few years, sure I'll be pissed. I'll move on and won't be screaming that they have a responsibility to continue something that I bought years ago.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21566228
> 
> 
> I'm not punishing your aunt. Rovi and CBS are.
> 
> 
> No technology or service lasts forever, especially when it costs more to operate (license fees, dedicated engineers, etc) as time goes and it's costumers dwindle.
> 
> 
> Here is a tough pill to swallow, but your aunt is not their ideal costumer. Forgive me for saying, but she will not be around for a long time and she and others are being replaced by a younger demographic who look at different technology.
> 
> 
> And I'm not laughing at Len, he decided to pick out my opinion and decide to respond with a 10 year old attitude. He is panicking because he and others are being left behind.
> 
> 
> You don't know that they don't have 2 years to live. You are just using the other side of the argument. Have you looked at the stories and financials of Rovi? Have you seen the market analysis?
> 
> 
> Some of you just have to step out into the real world and understand that business are not in the business to make your aunt happy, they want to make money. And tht can and will happen at your ire.
> 
> 
> No one answered me, is their any new product that uses tvgos? I don't think so, I might be wrong but I haven't seen any. So why would CBS an Rovi want to continue spending money on something that has no financial benefit to them into the future?
> 
> 
> I surely can't be the only one in this thread that took a business class?
> 
> 
> This is not hard to understand, it sucks that you invested in equipment that is buggy, old, barely supported and just to many people needed to operate.
> 
> 
> If TiVo goes under in a few years, sure I'll be pissed. I'll move on and won't be screaming that they have a responsibility to continue something that I bought years ago.



Well since you mentioned it. I am sure you know the financial status of ROVI. Would you or can you share with us. I would bet you have no clue off hand.


As far as there Stock price. It has been very steady for the last 5 years. Never going under $10. their latest Stock price is $30. Looks very healthy to me at first glance.


TVGUIDE is not their only product. Thus they are a well rounded company. So your position stinks like a skunk.


I will agree that TVGOS will not be around forever. Yet 2 years seems awful short.


PS have you heard that TIVO is on the 9 most likely company's to go under list this year? Guess your internet guide theory is shot to blazes lol


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Most of my comments were directed at CBS for NOT communicating very well on this! Perhaps it is ROVI that needs to fix it but CBS flubbed up major with their lack of communication that there was a problem first and that they were pulling it. They compounded the problem by then sending it out again and then pulling it again and not communicating. I spent a lot of time fiddling with my equipment because we were told that it was back (Which it was) and then it was pulled and we did not know it and I though I had an issue with my equipment! That is BS!
> 
> 
> Secondly why does it appear that CBS in other markets does not have an issue with TVGOS, or other stations send it without an issue? If there is a problem with ROVI it does not appear to be uiniversal as can be seen on the PALDVR forum comments!
> 
> 
> Am I angry with CBS? You bet! Its because of their lack of communication! I don't think they care about their OTA customers!



CBS does care about OTA viewers. You are a viewer, not a customer. You do not pay any recurring fees to them. They were the only network that proactively maintained a backup OTA transmitter prior to 9/11. OTA viewers account for less than 10% of their audience and out of that 10%, few use TVGOS.


A station may not admit it, but there are times when they pull a service and see if it lights up the switchboard. If 1 person calls, then they can justify dropping a service. There was a small station many years ago that offered cash to any viewers that called in and no one called!


Their communications perhaps sucks but they have other priorities such as launching 2.2 with an encoder that doesn't degrade 2.1. They had highly viewed football games in the past couple of weeks so if that meant removing 2.2 test signal and TVGOS signal to ensure the highest possible picture quality and minimize any problems well then that's what they had to do. A station may have to disappoint 1% of viewers to please the other 99%


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21566228
> 
> 
> No one answered me, is their any new product that uses tvgos? I don't think so, I might be wrong but I haven't seen any. So why would CBS an Rovi want to continue spending money on something that has no financial benefit to them into the future?



I may be mistaken, but I believe the Channel Master CM7000 was the last OTA TVGOS device on the market, as recently as a year ago.


A purchaser of a new piece of CE has the expectation that (for his dollars spent, some of which were forwarded to ROVI) it's advertised capabilities will not degrade or mysteriously disappear during the reasonable lifetime of the device; so for the CM7000 that either means TVGOS for perhaps 5 more years, or PSIP coming up to snuff to fill the void (the stations REALLY need to get on the ball with PSIP guide data - it's such a disgrace now).


----------



## keyboard21

So the only devices that Use TVGOS are The DTVpal, Cm-7000 (DTV Clone) and the Sony box?


What about the new LCD, LED, Plasma TV's?


They do not have OTA capabilities? What do they use? PSIP? Not TVGOS? Wonder why not?


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21565169
> 
> 
> Have you considered going after CBS for compensation, or at least for a refund??



?


You are seriously confused if you think this is even a remote possibility.


Rovi owns and licenses the product to consumer manufacturers. If you want compensation, talk to Rovi or the company who made the hardware you bought. All local stations do is pass the data in their signal. If the data is bad, it's Rovi's problem.


Look at it this way, if for whatever reason the CBS O&O stations decided to drop TVGOS completely, who would you blame then? Instead of placing any blame with CBS at all, you should be happy they are trying to make it work.


You want communication about Rovi's product? You want to know why it doesn't work? Ask them.


As already noted, the number of OTA viewers that actually use TVGOS is miniscule compared to OTA viewers that don't use it, not to even mention the other 85%-90% of their viewers who get their signals from pay providers. Just look at this topic; of over 1,000,000 AVS members, in the largest TV market in the country, we have less than a handful that are posting about this issue.


Do the math.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21567733
> 
> 
> So the only devices that Use TVGOS are The DTVpal, Cm-7000 (DTV Clone) and the Sony box?



I'm sure there are a smattering of TV's that have used TVGOS in the last 5-10 years, probably even some HDTV's.



> Quote:
> What about the new LCD, LED, Plasma TV's?
> 
> 
> They do not have OTA capabilities?



They all have Digital TV tuners, for OTA reception. All of them. Every brand. Every size.


> Quote:
> What do they use? PSIP?



Yes, exclusively.


> Quote:
> Not TVGOS?



Nope, not that I know of.


> Quote:
> Wonder why not?



It shouldn't be too hard to figure out.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21565169
> 
> 
> Have you considered going after CBS for compensation, or at least for a refund??



Surely you jest! We do live in a litigious society and there are probably a few lawyers out there that would take on CBS for a cut of the action for emotional damages they cause me or some other trumped up nonsense.


----------



## LenL

"This is not hard to understand, it sucks that you invested in equipment that is buggy, old, barely supported and just to many people needed to operate.


If TiVo goes under in a few years, sure I'll be pissed. I'll move on and won't be screaming that they have a responsibility to continue something that I bought years ago."


The PALDVR is NOT old, and by and large it NOT buggy and works quite well. There is also the CM7000 which was introduced in the past year or so and is the successor to the PALDVR. These devices work very well and provide OTA viewers with great capability to record and playback HD programming.


Last I checked OTA viewing is increasing around the country as more and more people become aware of the option to get HD quality TV for FREE! With that they will want to have devices for recording and playback. Just go on EBAY and you will see that devices to do that command a premium price. Used PALDVRS and CM7000 included.


You like your technology fine. But no need to bash those of us who use different technology that we like and is equally sophisticated in its one right. By your own admission TIVO is 8 plus years old. PALDVR and CM7000 are much newer.


----------



## Aero 1

sigh. emotions is getting in the way of reading comprehension for some of you, ill try this again.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21566338
> 
> 
> Well since you mentioned it. I am sure you know the financial status of ROVI. Would you or can you share with us. I would bet you have no clue off hand.
> 
> 
> As far as there Stock price. It has been very steady for the last 5 years. Never going under $10. their latest Stock price is $30. Looks very healthy to me at first glance.
> 
> 
> TVGUIDE is not their only product. Thus they are a well rounded company. So your position stinks like a skunk.
> 
> 
> I will agree that TVGOS will not be around forever. Yet 2 years seems awful short.
> 
> 
> PS have you heard that TIVO is on the 9 most likely company's to go under list this year? Guess your internet guide theory is shot to blazes lol



just because a stock price is at $10, it doesnt mean they are viable. you saying that is just ridiculous. im not going to google for you, but you can see that the tv market for rovi has been rocky lately and the past years with this service. they are expanding into other areas of entertainment content discovery and unified search. guess on top of what that is built on? the internet. tvgos, is an OLD technology that is being passed by. even KenH told you that its not hard to figure out, yet you still cant.


seriously? you are quoting an opinion piece by a guy who has been putting tivo and office max on the same doomed company list every year for the past couple of years? stop it. lol!!!! tivo is a small player in the business, but they hold patents and has an increasing customer base. do i think they will survive for ever? no, im not naive. when they go under, do i think they owe me an apology and retributions? of course not. will i be pissed, sure, but there will be always someone to take their place. Ceton, with their new DVR's and extenders are one. and guess what they use to get their guide?


internet guide theory? oh boy. where do you think the new channel master dvr that came out last month gets its premium guide from? it aint tvgos. if you dont know much about the industry, then dont make assumptions based on your wants, needs and emotions. and since you dont know, tivo can get guide data over a phone line. so your aunt doesnt need internet in order to use a tivo.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21567733
> 
> 
> So the only devices that Use TVGOS are The DTVpal, Cm-7000 (DTV Clone) and the Sony box?
> 
> 
> What about the new LCD, LED, Plasma TV's?
> 
> 
> They do not have OTA capabilities? What do they use? PSIP? Not TVGOS? Wonder why not?




ken answered all your questions, bet yet you fail to see the business aspect of a tv manufacturer. licensing the technology from rovi in order to please the smallest tv segment out there is not a good business practice. you seem to think because tv's have OTA abilities that they HAVE TO HAVE tvgos. they know that the majority of their customers are going to use a cable box, so whats the point of pleasing you? you are nothing to their bottom line.


like kenh told you, its not hard to figure out why.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21569510
> 
> 
> "This is not hard to understand, it sucks that you invested in equipment that is buggy, old, barely supported and just to many people needed to operate.
> 
> 
> If TiVo goes under in a few years, sure I'll be pissed. I'll move on and won't be screaming that they have a responsibility to continue something that I bought years ago."
> 
> 
> The PALDVR is NOT old, and by and large it NOT buggy and works quite well. There is also the CM7000 which was introduced in the past year or so and is the successor to the PALDVR. These devices work very well and provide OTA viewers with great capability to record and playback HD programming.
> 
> 
> Last I checked OTA viewing is increasing around the country as more and more people become aware of the option to get HD quality TV for FREE! With that they will want to have devices for recording and playback. Just go on EBAY and you will see that devices to do that command a premium price. Used PALDVRS and CM7000 included.
> 
> 
> You like your technology fine. But no need to bash those of us who use different technology that we like and is equally sophisticated in its one right. By your own admission TIVO is 8 plus years old. PALDVR and CM7000 are much newer.



the paldvr is old. its been discontinued and not supported. its old. just because it came out a few years ago, it doesnt mean it still fully supported. from what i understand, it was a huge headache for dish, so they dumped it. it works fine, thats great, but that doesnt mean its not old. my tivoHd is 2 years old, it works great, but its old. its not sold anymore, its not supported, its not being developed for and there is no support for it. its old. why cant you see that?


ebay is an indication of market forces, stop it. its an online garage sale. thats not called demand, thats called people selling a product they dont want or dont use. maybe because they need money, or they want to upgrade.


people do want devices to record their free tv, and they all have a choice. and those choices that are out now, non of them have tvgos.


tvgos is a headace , its a simple fact that you refuse to see. you have been told many, many, many, many times who, why, where and when it has been a problem and as to why they are in no hurry to fix it.


im not debating with you that ota hasnt increased, it has, but that doesnt mean that the industry has to support you!!!! where do you get that idea? do you think if OTA wasnt mandated by federal law, you would still have free access to CBS, NBC, ABC and the others? NO YOU WOULDNT!! if a tuner wasnt mandated by federal law to be included in tv's, do you think they would spend the time and money to put one in? OF COURSE NOT!!!


because they are required to offer you free tv, it doesnt mean they have to make it easy for you to enjoy it. they rather have you pay for an MSO so they can get a cut of your eyes.


again, you need to open your eyes. no one is bashing you for having a paldvr. i didnt bash you, i simply agreed with a statement that kenh said that you need to accept the realities of the market. unfortunately for you, you are using a product that is not supported very well. you are dependent on a product that has no obligation to be provided to you. channel master or who ever didnt sell you a paldvr with the promise that in whatever market you are in that tvgos will be available and functional at all times. why cant you understand that? the dvr falls back on manual recording or psip if tvgos is not present. its working perfectly fine. in contrary to my tivo. i paid for guide service. i went into the mutual agreement that my dvr will work because of the guide that i get from them either online or over the phone line. this is not hard to understand.


I, unlike you and few here understand that business and capitalism are not moral institutions. they don't care about me, you, your aunt or Methuselah at the old age home, they care about money.


and if you honestly think it would of been cheaper for Channel Master to buy licenses from Rovi, engineer and install hardware and or software that requires this, build code for displaying this, depend on many stations in markets to implement this correctly and build a costumer response center just to field calls from people that they cant get their tv guide on the screen because they have no idea that CBS is fixing it vs just licensing guide data from tribune or rovi over the internet? you are crazy.


----------



## Aero 1

i dont know about any of you, but its clear that rovi is either trying to distance themselves from tvgos and offer minimal support until it dies off, or they are preparing to dump it.


all i see on their site are enhanced guides for cable providers

http://www.rovicorp.com/products/discovery/guides.htm


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21567854
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> You are seriously confused if you think this is even a remote possibility.
> 
> 
> Rovi owns and licenses the product to consumer manufacturers. If you want compensation, talk to Rovi or the company who made the hardware you bought. All local stations do is pass the data in their signal. If the data is bad, it's Rovi's problem.
> 
> 
> Look at it this way, if for whatever reason the CBS O&O stations decided to drop TVGOS completely, who would you blame then? Instead of placing any blame with CBS at all, you should be happy they are trying to make it work.
> 
> 
> You want communication about Rovi's product? You want to know why it doesn't work? Ask them.
> 
> 
> As already noted, the number of OTA viewers that actually use TVGOS is miniscule compared to OTA viewers that don't use it, not to even mention the other 85%-90% of their viewers who get their signals from pay providers. Just look at this topic; of over 1,000,000 AVS members, in the largest TV market in the country, we have less than a handful that are posting about this issue.
> 
> 
> Do the math.



i believe he was joking around. i hope he was joking around.


math apparently is very difficult here. it gets in the way of their entitlement.


its going to be fun in this thread if the government does decide to take spectrum away from OTA.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21569720
> 
> 
> sigh. emotions is getting in the way of reading comprehension for some of you, ill try this again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just because a stock price is at $10, it doesnt mean they are viable. you saying that is just ridiculous. im not going to google for you, but you can see that the tv market for rovi has been rocky lately and the past years with this service. they are expanding into other areas of entertainment content discovery and unified search. guess on top of what that is built on? the internet. tvgos, is an OLD technology that is being passed by. even KenH told you that its not hard to figure out, yet you still cant.
> 
> 
> seriously? you are quoting an opinion piece by a guy who has been putting tivo and office max on the same doomed company list every year for the past couple of years? stop it. lol!!!! tivo is a small player in the business, but they hold patents and has an increasing customer base. do i think they will survive for ever? no, im not naive. when they go under, do i think they owe me an apology and retributions? of course not. will i be pissed, sure, but there will be always someone to take their place. Ceton, with their new DVR's and extenders are one. and guess what they use to get their guide?
> 
> 
> internet guide theory? oh boy. where do you think the new channel master dvr that came out last month gets its premium guide from? it aint tvgos. if you dont know much about the industry, then dont make assumptions based on your wants, needs and emotions. and since you dont know, tivo can get guide data over a phone line. so your aunt doesnt need internet in order to use a tivo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ken answered all your questions, bet yet you fail to see the business aspect of a tv manufacturer. licensing the technology from rovi in order to please the smallest tv segment out there is not a good business practice. you seem to think because tv's have OTA abilities that they HAVE TO HAVE tvgos. they know that the majority of their customers are going to use a cable box, so whats the point of pleasing you? you are nothing to their bottom line.
> 
> 
> like kenh told you, its not hard to figure out why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the paldvr is old. its been discontinued and not supported. its old. just because it came out a few years ago, it doesnt mean it still fully supported. from what i understand, it was a huge headache for dish, so they dumped it. it works fine, thats great, but that doesnt mean its not old. my tivoHd is 2 years old, it works great, but its old. its not sold anymore, its not supported, its not being developed for and there is no support for it. its old. why cant you see that?
> 
> 
> ebay is an indication of market forces, stop it. its an online garage sale. thats not called demand, thats called people selling a product they dont want or dont use. maybe because they need money, or they want to upgrade.
> 
> 
> people do want devices to record their free tv, and they all have a choice. and those choices that are out now, non of them have tvgos.
> 
> 
> tvgos is a headace , its a simple fact that you refuse to see. you have been told many, many, many, many times who, why, where and when it has been a problem and as to why they are in no hurry to fix it.
> 
> 
> im not debating with you that ota hasnt increased, it has, but that doesnt mean that the industry has to support you!!!! where do you get that idea? do you think if OTA wasnt mandated by federal law, you would still have free access to CBS, NBC, ABC and the others? NO YOU WOULDNT!! if a tuner wasnt mandated by federal law to be included in tv's, do you think they would spend the time and money to put one in? OF COURSE NOT!!!
> 
> 
> because they are required to offer you free tv, it doesnt mean they have to make it easy for you to enjoy it. they rather have you pay for an MSO so they can get a cut of your eyes.
> 
> 
> again, you need to open your eyes. no one is bashing you for having a paldvr. i didnt bash you, i simply agreed with a statement that kenh said that you need to accept the realities of the market. unfortunately for you, you are using a product that is not supported very well. you are dependent on a product that has no obligation to be provided to you. channel master or who ever didnt sell you a paldvr with the promise that in whatever market you are in that tvgos will be available and functional at all times. why cant you understand that? the dvr falls back on manual recording or psip if tvgos is not present. its working perfectly fine. in contrary to my tivo. i paid for guide service. i went into the mutual agreement that my dvr will work because of the guide that i get from them either online or over the phone line. this is not hard to understand.
> 
> 
> I, unlike you and few here understand that business and capitalism are not moral institutions. they don't care about me, you, your aunt or Methuselah at the old age home, they care about money.
> 
> 
> and if you honestly think it would of been cheaper for Channel Master to buy licenses from Rovi, engineer and install hardware and or software that requires this, build code for displaying this, depend on many stations in markets to implement this correctly and build a costumer response center just to field calls from people that they cant get their tv guide on the screen because they have no idea that CBS is fixing it vs just licensing guide data from tribune or rovi over the internet? you are crazy.



Sigh, You have toooooo much time on your hands.


Tivo does not offer TVGOS. Do they? So why should my aunt get a tivo


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21570120
> 
> 
> Sigh, You have toooooo much time on your hands.
> 
> 
> Tivo does not offer TVGOS. Do they? So why should my aunt get a tivo



being informed on something i am interested in is having tooooooo much time on my hands? wow. i would love to see how much effort you put into something you are interested in or at your job.


if you had a little time on your hands, and know about something that you are interested in and on a subject you obviously have to support, you would know the answers to those questions.


why do you continue think tvgos is the only EPG service out there in the universe? or that every CE manufacturer has to or has the ability to use TVGOS? do you think Rovi is the only provider of EPG data?


i could say that your aunt should get a tivo so she can stop calling you as to why she cant see whats on tv next wednesday, but thats not up to me to tell her. or i could tell you that she should get it because it doesnt depend on an aging, complicated, problematic technology.


its up to you and your aunt to decide which one of those two answers is best suited.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21570068
> 
> 
> i believe he was joking around. i hope he was joking around.
> 
> 
> math apparently is very difficult here. it gets in the way of their entitlement.
> 
> 
> its going to be fun in this thread if the government does decide to take spectrum away from OTA.



Thank you Aero 1 for catching my tongue in cheek drift. This discussion has deteriorated into bashing stations, and companies, and participants. Eventually the moderator will step in to end it, and erase everything like it never happened.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21570206
> 
> 
> being informed on something i am interested in is having tooooooo much time on my hands? wow. i would love to see how much effort you put into something you are interested in or at your job.
> 
> 
> if you had a little time on your hands, and know about something that you are interested in and on a subject you obviously have to support, you would know the answers to those questions.
> 
> 
> why do you continue think tvgos is the only EPG service out there in the universe? or that every CE manufacturer has to or has the ability to use TVGOS? do you think Rovi is the only provider of EPG data?
> 
> 
> i could say that your aunt should get a tivo so she can stop calling you as to why she cant see whats on tv next wednesday, but thats not up to me to tell her. or i could tell you that she should get it because it doesnt depend on an aging, complicated, problematic technology.
> 
> 
> its up to you and your aunt to decide which one of those two answers is best suited.



So if you are finished writing book length answers. I will tell you.


TVGOS is the only OTA Guide data. Besides PSIP. right?


She does NOT have the internet. So anything ,but TVGOS will work for her. Tivo does not have TVGOS right? So why the heck does she want a TIVO.


Unless you want to pay $50 per month for the internet for her.


As you should know the guy with the wordiest answer does not automatically win.


I am not going to spend an hour debunking everything you said. Not worth my time.


Let's just say you are mostly wrong and leave it at that


----------



## SnellKrell

Boring!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21570357
> 
> 
> Thank you Aero 1 for catching my tongue in cheek drift. This discussion has deteriorated into bashing stations, and companies, and participants. Eventually the moderator will step in to end it, and erase everything like it never happened.



Your sarcasm eluded me. Sorry.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21570461
> 
> 
> So if you are finished writing book length answers. I will tell you.
> 
> 
> She does NOT have the internet. So anything ,but TVGOS will work for her. Tivo does not have TVGOS right? So why the heck does she want a TIVO.
> 
> 
> Unless you want to pay $50 per month for the internet for her.
> 
> 
> As you should know the guy with the wordiest answer does not automatically win.
> 
> 
> I am not going to spend an hour debunking everything you said. Not worth my time.
> 
> 
> Let's just say you are mostly wrong and leave it at that



typical child response when he doesnt get what he wants. all others here that are disagreeing with you are wrong as well, apparently.


i dont care about your aunt so i dont care what she gets. if you'd stop stomping your foot on the ground and actually read what people are telling you since you ask for help, you would of seen that you dont need internet in order to use a tivo. she does have a phone line, use a tivo with a phone line. is that too hard for her? or for you to remember?


short and uninformed responses like yours sure makes it right.










lets just say that everyone here is right and you are wrong.


ps. ken, maybe you should put a 6 word limit on posts in order not to lose people.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21570461
> 
> 
> So if you are finished writing book length answers. I will tell you.
> 
> 
> TVGOS is the only OTA Guide data. Besides PSIP. right?
> 
> 
> She does NOT have the internet. So anything ,but TVGOS will work for her. Tivo does not have TVGOS right? So why the heck does she want a TIVO.
> 
> 
> Unless you want to pay $50 per month for the internet for her.



I think that was the assumption. If she had Internet, she could use a TiVo for OTA, and pay them a monthly fee which provides a vastly superior DVR experience with name based programming and a vastly superior guide.


----------



## SnellKrell

Can we please get back on topic????


Enough already with someone's aunt, someone believing they have a constitution right to continue to receive a dead format!


By comparison, the continual questions about 2.2 are beginning to look ivery nviting!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21570483
> 
> 
> typical child response when he doesnt get what he wants. all others here that are disagreeing with you are wrong as well, apparently.
> 
> 
> i dont care about your aunt so i dont care what she gets. she does have a phone line, use a tivo with a phone line. is that too hard for her?
> 
> 
> short and uninformed responses like yours sure makes it right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lets just say that everyone here is right and you are wrong.



Tivo works with a phone line? That I did not know. That I could hook up for her. But I bet the lifetime support is $499. Thanks for that info


She does not want to spend $19 per month or $499. Plus Tivo might go belly up.


TVGOS is the best solution for her.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21570487
> 
> 
> I think that was the assumption. If she had Internet, she could use a TiVo for OTA, and pay them a monthly fee which provides a vastly superior DVR experience with name based programming and a vastly superior guide.



Thanks Ken. You think I am stubborn. Anything that costs a monthly charge is out. Hard to talk her into anything like that. Unless it was $1 per month.


TVGOS is great for older viewers that can not or will not pay a monthly charge.


I was always surprised how good TVGOS looked on the DTVpal type guide.


To be honest I really do not see the vastly superior difference. I had Cable and fios. Those guides and DVRs are better, but $240 per year rental fee better? Not in my opinion. I do still have it though. Just wished I could get OTA where I lived.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21570555
> 
> 
> Thanks Ken. You think I am stubborn. Anything that costs a monthly charge is out. Hard to talk her into anything like that. Unless it was $1 per month.
> 
> 
> TVGOS is great for older viewers that can not or will not pay a monthly charge.
> 
> 
> I was always surprised how good TVGOS looked on the DTVpal type guide.
> 
> 
> To be honest I really do not see the vastly superior difference. I had Cable and fios. Those guides and DVRs are better, but $240 per year rental fee better? Not in my opinion. I do still have it though. Just wished I could get OTA where I lived.



TIVO may have a vastly superior DVR but for a one time price and NO monthly charges the PALDVR or CM7000 offer better bang for the buck. Having a TIVO still puts a yoke around your neck of paying someone whether it is a cable company, Verizon, or Direct TV to watch TV. I think people who use OTA want to get away from that model!


----------



## LenL

"tvgos is a headace , its a simple fact that you refuse to see. you have been told many, many, many, many times who, why, where and when it has been a problem and as to why they are in no hurry to fix it."


I don't think so! Except for a few markets it is up and running and working well right now. In fact except for the recent issue with CBS I never had an issue with TVGOS the past 3 years.


So I don't buy your comments at all and I have been monitoring the PALDVR forum.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21570986
> 
> 
> TIVO may have a vastly superior DVR but for a one time price and NO monthly charges the PALDVR or CM7000 offer better bang for the buck. Having a TIVO still puts a yoke around your neck of paying someone whether it is a cable company, Verizon, or Direct TV to watch TV. I think people who use OTA want to get away from that model!



how so? i paid $450 for my tivo with lifetime service. $100 - $150 more than what you mentioned. Im OTA only, i dont pay anyone a monthly fee to use the tivo. you paid a 1 time price for your DVR, i paid a 1 time price for mine. how is that a different payment model than yours?


and dont say mine cost more, thats irrelevant. i still paid once, not 1 recurring fee.


----------



## keyboard21

I like TVGOS


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21571066
> 
> 
> how so? i paid $450 for my tivo with lifetime service. $100 - $150 more than what you mentioned. Im OTA only, i dont pay anyone a monthly fee to use the tivo. you paid a 1 time price for your DVR, i paid a 1 time price for mine. how is that a different payment model than yours?
> 
> 
> and dont say mine cost more, thats irrelevant. i still paid once, not 1 recurring fee.



I did not mention any price. I have 2 units as I need 2. That would be $900 if I went with TIVO. I spent $199 and $249. You do the math. I love what I get for what I paid.


This is not a forum for DVRS so lets end the discussion.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21570986
> 
> 
> TIVO may have a vastly superior DVR but for a one time price and NO monthly charges the PALDVR or CM7000 offer better bang for the buck. Having a TIVO still puts a yoke around your neck of paying someone whether it is a cable company, Verizon, or Direct TV to watch TV. I think people who use OTA want to get away from that model!



I understand your point, and there are a lot of reasons why it makes sense.


On the other hand, you get what you pay for, or not.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21572281
> 
> 
> I understand your point, and there are a lot of reasons why it makes sense.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, you get what you pay for, or not.



Ken,


Before SD/HD. We used to get only 13 channels. Out of that only 7 or 8 were really clear. There was no guide info at all. No time. It was the bare bones.


Now with SD/HD we get a 7 day guide that looks similar (dummy down) to cable guide. We get show info that is less detailed, but still something more than we had. We have a time (clock) on the tv screen. We have 59 channels now. That includes sub-channels and worthless channels. We can zoom in the picture to get rid of the letterbox format. She used to get 1 or two movies a month on Analog. Now she complains she has too many.


It is FAR from perfect, but it is a vast improvement from Analog. Sure we complain about TVGOS being broken. Only because it is a huge improvement from PSIP. So much so even my Aunt sees the difference.


You know cable company's charge $30 for basic channels. About 40. Some of those are worthless also.


The DTVpal was not winner that is why it was discontinued twice by two different companies. It is though the closest people like my Aunt will come to a cable type device.


So I am satisfied with this setup for her.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1* /forum/post/21570483
> 
> 
> lets just say that everyone here is right and you are wrong
> 
> 
> ps. ken, maybe you should put a 6 word limit on posts in order not to lose people.



lets just say that everyone here is right and you are wrong.


----------



## dm145

the bouncing square and test tone are back on CBSNY+ 2.2


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/21587252
> 
> 
> the bouncing square and test tone are back on CBSNY+ 2.2



It should be renamed to C-BS. They put this annoying bouncing whatever back on and could there be anything more annoying? How many times do they need to play games with us? Either put content over the air or shut it down! Please! How many times do I need to delete this!


----------



## SnellKrell

"...could there be anything more annoying?"


You're making this way too easy!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> It should be renamed to C-BS. They put this annoying bouncing whatever back on and could there be anything more annoying? How many times do they need to play games with us? Either put content over the air or shut it down! Please! How many times do I need to delete this!



Did it occur to u that there is a test signal there is not to play games but to TEST before launching?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21587768
> 
> 
> Did it occur to u that there is a test signal there is not to play games but to TEST before launching?



And then I thought. How much testing do they need to do? It's on then it's off. Then it's on again. You know other major networks added subs and NEVER did this nonsense. Do I need to site chapter and verse as to which networks added subs since the digital conversion and did not do testing for a month plus?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> And then I thought. How much testing do they need to do? It's on then it's off. Then it's on again. You know other major networks added subs and NEVER did this nonsense. Do I need to site chapter and verse as to which networks added subs since the digital conversion and did not do testing for a month plus?



If content and programming isn't ready, then what's wrong with being proactive and testing to be thorough? They can be testing and trialing various encoders, different settings, bitrates, etc and see what they look like on different types of tv's (LCD, tube,etc). S,ethgnWPIX should've done prior to stuffing 3 sub channels in.


Also can be trying to fix TVGOS issue. Bottom line is although launch of 2.2 is behind schedule,it will appear when they are ready. Complaining here about it is unlikely to speed it up.The same folks that complain that it's not on yet are the same folks that will complain if CBS put on a subpar product with crappy picture.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21588080
> 
> 
> If content and programming isn't ready, then what's wrong with being proactive and testing to be thorough? They can be testing and trialing various encoders, different settings, bitrates, etc and see what they look like on different types of tv's (LCD, tube,etc). S,ethgnWPIX should've done prior to stuffing 3 sub channels in.
> 
> 
> Also can be trying to fix TVGOS issue. Bottom line is although launch of 2.2 is behind schedule,it will appear when they are ready. Complaining here about it is unlikely to speed it up.The same folks that complain that it's not on yet are the same folks that will complain if CBS put on a subpar product with crappy picture.



Nothing wrong just a pain for me. The Dtvpal (box we use) Does not like it when a channel is on then off. What happens is it finds new channels. When the signal goes away. The channel stays on with no signal. The box gets confused and FREEZES for 10 seconds each time channel is passed.


Must be some encoding issue.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/21587252
> 
> 
> the bouncing square and test tone are back on CBSNY+ 2.2



You'll be happy to know that there has been some progress -- that bouncing square is now a rectangle, with a complete test pattern along with it.


Yes, I agree -- if I delete the channel, it just reappears once they add it again. At least they're working out any bugs (or at least appear to be).


----------



## rChaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21589388
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree -- if I delete the channel, it just reappears once they add it again. At least they're working out any bugs (or at least appear to be).



And, at least for now, they're transmitting TVGOS again, listings for which are again populating for me on two different types of devices.


----------



## frysk

Yesterday morning we turned on the tv to find WNBC (4.1, 4.2, etc) completely snow. Nothing I can figure changed and all other channels are coming in fine. If I had no signal my tv would be black with a "no signal" icon so I can't figure what is happening. Anyone else experiencing this issue?


----------



## SnellKrell

You say "Yesterday morning" - what time?


There's been a lot of working being done on the ESB until

approximately 5 a.m.


I watched the station yesterday morning, not that early, and no problems.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frysk* /forum/post/21590615
> 
> 
> Yesterday morning we turned on the tv to find WNBC (4.1, 4.2, etc) completely snow. Nothing I can figure changed and all other channels are coming in fine. If I had no signal my tv would be black with a "no signal" icon so I can't figure what is happening. Anyone else experiencing this issue?



"Completely snow" only existed with analog reception, but since digital decoders won't display "snow" this symptom doesn't sound right.


----------



## AloEuro

The other day during the Pro Bowl bore, Telo on 42-1 was presenting interesting info about heart/coronary issues, 20 Billion worth of unnecessary surgeries, on the shows there some experts use medical info, statics, published studies most of us merely mortals would not come to contact.


----------



## icemannyr

The test pattern on WCBS-DT 2.2 is 4:3 letterboxed.

It my not be the aspect radio they go with though It would be better if they did 16:9 SD like WNBC-DT 4.2.


----------



## frysk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21590789
> 
> 
> "Completely snow" only existed with analog reception, but since digital decoders won't display "snow" this symptom doesn't sound right.



yep, figured it out. Somehow channel 4's default setting got switched to look for the analog signal instead of the digital signal. I realized it when I noticed all other channels said "DTV" in the corner except for 4. I have a 4 yr old son so that usually explains it.


...I thought I was going to have to watch the Super Bowl at my parents for a moment there.


----------



## LenL

I can confirm it is back as one of my PALDVRS is now showing the TVGUIDE logo.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frysk* /forum/post/21592018
> 
> 
> yep, figured it out. Somehow channel 4's default setting got switched to look for the analog signal instead of the digital signal. I realized it when I noticed all other channels said "DTV" in the corner except for 4. I have a 4 yr old son so that usually explains it.
> 
> 
> ...I thought I was going to have to watch the Super Bowl at my parents for a moment there.



I used to get a lot of calls about SAP audio traced to remote control mis-punches. My own two problems are with closed captions and changing aspect ratio...occasionally I push the wrong buttons and suffer until I realize it was self-induced. As for the Super Bowl, I'll be watching from right at the Transmitter, just in case something needs immediate attention.


----------



## icemannyr

For about 3 weeks now I've been noticing on WNYW-DT and WWOR-DT SD commercials are airing with interlacing lines on the video.

The show airing on WWOR-DT in SD has interlacing lines on it.

How is it technically that a station broadcasting in 720p can have interlacing lines on the screen?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/21591685
> 
> 
> The other day during the Pro Bowl bore, Telo on 42-1 was presenting interesting info about heart/coronary issues, 20 Billion worth of unnecessary surgeries, on the shows there some experts use medical info, statics, published studies most of us merely mortals would not come to contact.



Sounds interesting!










And for all the fans of those seemingly lost classic TV shows which have fallen into the public domain, there is happy news to report







HOT TV Network has returned to WKOB-LD channel 42-3 effective Friday, February 4, 2012 following a nearly four month hiatus during which time an EBR test pattern without audio kept HOT's seat warm. HOT's quiet return isn't entirely problem-free, however, as an audio problem is alternately muting the audio for several moments. Hopefully this technical problem will be repaired quicker than the hiatus so these vintage classics will once again be enjoyed in their entirety by HOT TV's New York City area audience.


For more information about HOT TV Network, check out their website: HOT TV Network


----------



## keyboard21

Does anyone have the TVGOS Updating Schedule?


The hours that CBS sends out the signal.


Thanks


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21596216
> 
> 
> Does anyone have the TVGOS Updating Schedule?
> 
> 
> The hours that CBS sends out the signal.
> 
> 
> Thanks



MY Sony HDD-250 shuts down at 1 am for "program updates". TVGOS 8.


The only good thing I can see about the subchannel is that it is SD 480i. If they are going to destroy the only true HDTV picture in the NY area, at least this is less bandwidth taken.


I guess we'll have to use disc media / blu rays now to see the "best picture". Darn. That was one thing from the analog age I thought we were over with.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21592524
> 
> 
> I'll be watching from right at the Transmitter, just in case something needs immediate attention.



Do you have a Paragon Valdez transmitter or a DCX?


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/21600926
> 
> 
> Do you have a Paragon Valdez transmitter or a DCX?



Four IOX cabinets have been reconfigured into DCX over the years and operating now with two as Main for 50 kW TPO with ADAPT IV exciters and the other two as Alternate for 44 kW TPO with MODAP exciters.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21601406
> 
> 
> Four IOX cabinets have been reconfigured into DCX over the years and operating now with two as Main for 50 kW TPO with ADAPT IV exciters and the other two as Alternate for 44 kW TPO with MODAP exciters.



Kewl beans. Happy thyratron crowbar to you!


Your private msg inbox is clogged.


----------



## SubaruB4

wow this sucks I can't watch the game at all.. it's like they cut the power to WNBC I don't get a blip at all on the signal level.. I bet $100 in the morning everything will be back to normal!


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21602140
> 
> 
> wow this sucks I can't watch the game at all.. it's like they cut the power to WNBC I don't get a blip at all on the signal level.. I bet $100 in the morning everything will be back to normal!



Wow, I'm at least 35 miles northeast of you (63 miles from ESB). I recorded the game on 3 different DTV Pal DVRs. No signal problems on WNBC up here.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT* /forum/post/21604331
> 
> 
> Wow, I'm at least 35 miles northeast of you (63 miles from ESB). I recorded the game on 3 different DTV Pal DVRs. No signal problems on WNBC up here.



Wow is right :-/


I was able to watch it but it was painful in a big way.. I found in order for it to get a signal I had to sit about a foot away from my 40" screen and hold my hand out near the antenna (outside the window) and the signal got clear.. but as soon as I moved and sat back in my seat or got up.. I got the message "Weak or no signal"


Ugh..


biggest turn off.. I only watched a bit of the half-time and near the end and that was it.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21595496
> 
> 
> Sounds interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for all the fans of those seemingly lost classic TV shows which have fallen into the public domain, there is happy news to report
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HOT TV Network has returned to WKOB-LD channel 42-3 effective Friday, February 4, 2012 following a nearly four month hiatus during which time an EBR test pattern without audio kept HOT's seat warm. HOT's quiet return isn't entirely problem-free, however, as an audio problem is alternately muting the audio for several moments. Hopefully this technical problem will be repaired quicker than the hiatus so these vintage classics will once again be enjoyed in their entirety by HOT TV's New York City area audience.
> 
> 
> For more information about HOT TV Network, check out their website: HOT TV Network



It's good to know, I have edited the 42-3,4 out, thank you


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21444130
> 
> 
> WSAH, channel 43 is no longer a RTV affiliate, They are now running MeTV programing, at least that's what is airing on DirecTV.



Supposedly Retro was moved to a sub-channel?


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes, RTV should be on 43-2.


- Trip


----------



## Greg2600

With all the moving around of WKOB's digital transmission channel, when they finally finish their work, will the reception of it improve at all? I can't get it at all with an indoor antenna, and I'm less than 10 miles away.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600* /forum/post/21620502
> 
> 
> With all the moving around of WKOB's digital transmission channel, when they finally finish their work, will the reception of it improve at all? I can't get it at all with an indoor antenna, and I'm less than 10 miles away.



Are you attempting to tune in after sunset? I have heard that the FCC approved a new channel out of the VHF Lo band currently used. With RF channel 2, the station is obscured in my area by street lights. If you are trying during the day, perhaps an indoor antenna is not enough. With my outdoor antenna, about 35 miles away from their transmitter, signal strength is about 65-70%.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21617365
> 
> 
> Yes, RTV should be on 43-2.
> 
> 
> - Trip



But here with signal level 0-15 0-15 ,well, you've got to work harder, Trip


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21624040
> 
> 
> Are you attempting to tune in after sunset? I have heard that the FCC approved a new channel out of the VHF Lo band currently used. With RF channel 2, the station is obscured in my area by street lights. If you are trying during the day, perhaps an indoor antenna is not enough. With my outdoor antenna, about 35 miles away from their transmitter, signal strength is about 65-70%.



Usually street lights quiet down after being on for a while.


----------



## nyctveng

 http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...-correspondent


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/21626148
> 
> 
> Usually street lights quiet down after being on for a while.



From what I have seen, WKOB vanishes about a minute before the streetlight in my sight even starts as a dim glow, and WKOB remains out through daybreak. Tried to tune in one morning before sunrise -- nothing. I left the set on ch 42, and as soon as the streetlight went out, WKOB was back on. From what I recall, WKOB is operating at just 300 watts.


----------



## icemannyr

Anyone know if WCBS made any changes to their encoder?

Tonight WCBS-DT 2.1 has almost no motion artifacts.

The Grammy's PQ was very good.


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21624040
> 
> 
> Are you attempting to tune in after sunset? I have heard that the FCC approved a new channel out of the VHF Lo band currently used. With RF channel 2, the station is obscured in my area by street lights. If you are trying during the day, perhaps an indoor antenna is not enough. With my outdoor antenna, about 35 miles away from their transmitter, signal strength is about 65-70%.



I didn't know that street lights were such a problem? I've probably tried mostly during the day. Given my distance from NYC, if I can't receive the station with a common indoor antenna, then it's simple not worth my time or effort. I was just asking whether WKOB would be joining the big time, or continue as, in my book, an irrelevant OTA station?


----------



## Trip in VA

It's the nature of low-VHF, *everything* interferes with it.


- Trip


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21641646
> 
> 
> It's the nature of low-VHF, *everything* interferes with it.
> 
> 
> - Trip




My water pik takes channel 11 out. The little DC motor inside must make tiny sparks. It is 75 feet from the antenna.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21641646
> 
> 
> It's the nature of low-VHF, *everything* interferes with it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Just about everything is being converted to LED lighting and LEDS can have disasterous impact on VHF - LOW, Medium, High as I have found with my neighbors LED patio lights. Just wait as they convert traffic lights, street lights etc to LED. And what will happen when the lights on the Empire State building which are on all the time go LED (I hope not)? We may lose all of our reception!


----------



## SnellKrell

LEDs are and have been illuminating the exterior of the Empire State Building!


The use of LEDs on the Empire State Building goes back to 2007 when the owners of the building began tests for its $5 million LED lighting contract!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21643328
> 
> 
> LEDs are and have been illuminating the exterior of the Empire State Building!
> 
> 
> The use of LEDs on the Empire State Building goes back to 2007 when the owners of the building began tests for its $5 million LED lighting contract!



I thought they used Floodlights?


----------



## SnellKrell

Wrong!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21643842
> 
> 
> Wrong!



Here is the latest info from the ESB Website. You will note NO mention of LEDs and the mention of floodlights and flourescent lighting.


How are the tower lights' colors changed?


For the top spire, the lighting is done with five panels of *fluorescent tubes* containing five colors (red, yellow, green, blue and white), and these colors are changed by turning a switch. On the setback roofs, there are large white *spotlights* with metal frames; large colored, disk-shaped gels (red, blue, green, yellow, orange, lavender, purple, pink) are placed into the frames. These lights are pitched towards the building's façade, so that the colors are projected onto the building. The building's staff electricians are in charge of the color changes.


----------



## SnellKrell

Whatever you say!


----------



## 2VW

LED lighting on Empire would only be a inteference problem for the gorilla. Not sure if he even watches TV.


----------



## George Molnar

Quote:

Originally Posted by *LenL* 
Here is the latest info from the ESB Website. You will note NO mention of LEDs and the mention of floodlights and flourescent lighting.


How are the tower lights colors changed?


For the top spire, the lighting is done with five panels of *fluorescent tubes* containing five colors (red, yellow, green, blue and white), and these colors are changed by turning a switch. On the setback roofs, there are large white *spotlights* with metal frames; large colored, disk-shaped gels (red, blue, green, yellow, orange, lavender, purple, pink) are placed into the frames. These lights are pitched towards the building's façade, so that the colors are projected onto the building. The building's staff electricians are in charge of the color changes.
Quite similar but not exactly the same: LED lighting upgrade for the Touchdown Jesus mural on Hesburgh Library at Notre Dame.

 

Notre Dame Library LED Lighting.pdf 56.2470703125k . file


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21644311
> 
> 
> Whatever you say!



I copied the info from the ESB website. So technically it's what they are telling the public. Not what I am saying. Just go to their website and go to FAQS. That is my source.


If you could tell us where you got your info that they use LEDS then maybe we can clear this up.


----------



## Ken H

From The New York Times



> Quote:
> Empire State Building Seeks Best of the Brightest
> 
> 
> By GLENN COLLINS
> 
> Published: April 20, 2007
> 
> 
> Think of it as a smackdown between King Kong and Godzilla. Hours before sunrise today, two lighting behemoths faced off at the Empire State Building, vying for a $5 million contract to bring 21st century illumination to New York’s tallest skyscraper.
> 
> 
> In the test early this morning at the Empire State Building, the existing lights, in white above, competed against L.E.D. lights from Phillips, the red light to the right, and Color Kinetics, the red light to the left.
> 
> 
> From 3:58 a.m. to 5:09 a.m. Eastern time, the combatants projected a rainbow of colors from the 72nd floor parapet of the Empire, as its employees call the building. There were solid test-pattern blocks, vibrant stripes, spectrum cascades, strobe effects, and pattern sequences called “Fourth of July,” “New Year’s Eve” and “fireworks.”
> 
> 
> The two companies, Color Kinetics and Philips Electronics, had installed test lights to illuminate floors 72 to 81 at the north and south sides of the Art Deco building’s western facade.
> 
> 
> The contest bathed the building in “intelligent illumination,” employing a new generation of computer-controlled high-brightness light-emitting diodes — or L.E.D.s — that are capable of producing millions of different colors and an infinity of patterns.
> 
> 
> For decades, only nine colors have been available in lighting the building, deployed by six maintenance workers who braved the elements on the parapets to install — by hand — colored plastic lenses on the tops of 208 old-fashioned floodlights, a job that can take six hours. They worked the color changes 200 times a year.
> 
> 
> And a crew changed some of those outmoded lights again and again this morning, on the north facade of the Empire State, to provide a visual comparison for the building’s managers. They were watching the test through the windows of their command center on the 28th floor of an office building at West 38th Street and Broadway.
> 
> 
> The color of the new lights will be programmable from a computer console. The L.E.D.s will give off less heat, will last much longer, and probably will be more energy efficient than the current metal-halide lamps.
> 
> 
> The competition demonstrates “nothing less than the digitalization of an entire major industry, replacing archaic mechanical illumination with smarter lighting,” said William Sims, president of Color Kinetics, based in Boston, which has illuminated the Hollywood Bowl, the Los Angeles International Airport and the Broadway musical “Wicked.”
> 
> 
> In an earlier test in January to gauge brightness and color intensity, both companies were banished from the 72nd floor parapets back to the drawing board to improve their colors, especially white. So today, “we were psyched and excited” about the test, said Govi V. Rao, general manager of Philips’s American solid-state lighting division, based in Somerset, N.J. The company has lit iconic buildings like Buckingham Palace in London and the Dolmabahçe Palace in Istanbul.
> 
> 
> The Empire State’s lights, normally switched on from a bit before sundown to midnight, have long observed a complex annual cycle of ritual changes: blue and white for Hanukkah, red and green for the December holiday season, yellow and white for spring, green for St. Patrick’s Day, pink and white for breast-cancer awareness. This calendar has often been punctuated by special events, as when the building went blue in honor of the passing of Frank Sinatra, Ol’ Blue Eyes.
> 
> 
> With the new lights, though, the Empire State would be able to feature “dynamic new patterns,” said James T. Connors, the general manager of the Empire State Building Company.
> 
> 
> The lighting upgrade is part of a years-long, $400 million refurbishment of the building that he hopes will increase its value to prospective tenants.
> 
> 
> Mr. Connors pronounced himself “happy with the test” today, but reserved opinion on which company won, saying that won’t be decided until the companies submit their formal bids for the job. Installation could begin as early as next fall, for a debut in 2008.
> 
> 
> The new lighting systems have one serious shortcoming, however. The L.E.D.s will be projecting light onto the building, not densely covering its sides and projecting outward, as they would on Times Square billboard screens — “so you can’t,” Mr. Connors said, “create an image of King Kong with these lights.”



I can't find anything that indicates this ever happened.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21645791
> 
> 
> From The New York Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't find anything that indicates this ever happened.


 http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/200...HOW_index.html


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21648966
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/200...HOW_index.html



Right, that's the slideshow that was published with the article about the test, so the test happened, but I mean did they actually pick a company and install the LED's?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21649279
> 
> 
> Right, that's the slideshow that was published with the article about the test, so the test happened, but I mean did they actually pick a company and install the LED's?



I'm only saying that they don't mention LEDS at all on the ESB website. And the FAQ still talks about changing colors with lenses on the floodlights which was the old technology from what I can tell. It could be the LEDs worked well in the tests but the cost for them must be quite high.


Perhaps someone can find out more info? I could try to email them (ESB website) and see if I can get an answer.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21643198
> 
> 
> Just about everything is being converted to LED lighting and LEDS can have disasterous impact on VHF - LOW, Medium, High as I have found with my neighbors LED patio lights. Just wait as they convert traffic lights, street lights etc to LED. And what will happen when the lights on the Empire State building which are on all the time go LED (I hope not)? We may lose all of our reception!



The Radio and TV broadcasters pay HUGE rents for the space to keep their antennas and transmitters at ESB, thus effectively operating their businesses from this midtown Manhattan location. I highly doubt it would be in the best interest of the landlords to create a scenario in which the tenants could not effectively conduct their business in the manner they have been doing so for nearly 70 years.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21649834
> 
> 
> I'm only saying that they don't mention LEDS at all on the ESB website.



?


Yes, you've already said that. I was addressing a different comment.


----------



## icemannyr

Noticing for the second time in a few weeks WNYW-DT 5.1 is keeping the WNYW NEW YORK id on screen on the bottom left during network programming.


----------



## SubaruB4

watching it now and yes it's very annoying.. how is it they can get the Fox logo right but not WNYW-DT?


----------



## icemannyr

At the end of the second segment just before 8:30pm they turned it off.


----------



## SubaruB4

Yep...


----------



## tjeremiah

noticed a Bounce TV header on channel 9.3


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WWOR-TV Launches Subchannel 9-3 for Bounce TV*


Effective Thursday, February 16, 2012, WWOR-TV Secaucus has launched a new stream over its Channel 38 broadcast facility in the New York City market.


The new stream, which appears to over-the-air viewers as Channel 9-3, will be the home of Bounce TV, perhaps as early as today. According to the network's Bounce TV website : "Bounce TV is the first African American broadcast network, featuring a programming mix of theatrical motion pictures, sporting events, documentaries, specials, inspirational faith-based programs, off-network series, original programming and more. Bounce TV's founders include Martin Luther King III, Ambassador Andrew Young, Andrew Bo Young III, and Rob Hardy and Will Packer, co-founders of Rainforest Films, one of the top African American production companies in the world."


Bounce TV was founded on April 4, 2011 and began broadcasting on September 26, 2011 at 12PM EDT. In November 2011, it was announced that WWOR-TV would be the new network's New York City area affiliate.


The launch in this market could be bittersweet. Bounce TV plans to broadcast singer Whitney Houston's funeral from Newark, New Jersey in its entirety without commercials on Saturday, February 18, 2012 starting at 12PM EST. They will likely be the only broadcast outlet to present uninterrupted coverage.

_Technical Specs_


Presently, the WWOR-TV Secaucus .3 sub-channel simulcasts WWOR-TV programming. It is SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio. Language is English. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *BOUNCE* on virtual channel 9-3. Time is +1 hour. Program guide information is accurate. The current program airing is "WWOR Programming" which is described as "Program Description" It is a 60 minute program which airs hourly beginning at the top of each hour.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21658147
> 
> *WWOR-TV Launches Subchannel 9-3 for Bounce TV*
> 
> 
> Effective Thursday, February 16, 2012, WWOR-TV Secaucus has launched a new stream over its Channel 38 broadcast facility in the New York City market.
> 
> 
> The new stream, which appears to over-the-air viewers as Channel 9-3, will be the home of Bounce TV, perhaps as early as today. According to the network's Bounce TV website : "Bounce TV is the first African American broadcast network, featuring a programming mix of theatrical motion pictures, sporting events, documentaries, specials, inspirational faith-based programs, off-network series, original programming and more. Bounce TV's founders include Martin Luther King III, Ambassador Andrew Young, Andrew Bo Young III, and Rob Hardy and Will Packer, co-founders of Rainforest Films, one of the top African American production companies in the world."
> 
> 
> Bounce TV was founded on April 4, 2011 and began broadcasting on September 26, 2011 at 12PM EDT. In November 2011, it was announced that WWOR-TV would be the new network's New York City area affiliate.
> 
> 
> The launch in this market could be bittersweet. Bounce TV plans to broadcast singer Whitney Houston's funeral from Newark, New Jersey in its entirety without commercials on Saturday, February 18, 2012 starting at 12PM EST. They will likely be the only broadcast outlet to present uninterrupted coverage.
> 
> _Technical Specs_
> 
> 
> Presently, the WWOR-TV Secaucus .3 sub-channel simulcasts WWOR-TV programming. It is SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio. Language is English. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *BOUNCE* on virtual channel 9-3. Time is +1 hour. Program guide information is accurate. The current program airing is "WWOR Programming" which is described as "Program Description" It is a 60 minute program which airs hourly beginning at the top of each hour.



And meanwhile the folks over at CBS can only put test patterns up on 2.2. How much longer do we have to endure that nonsense!


----------



## AloEuro

WOR 9-3 Bounce 704x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo


Last night glimpse and today morning glimpse of the same show, looks like they may be showing the one and only show 24/7, not much of gain


----------



## icemannyr

I checked 9.3 on Friday and today and it's been a simulcast of 9.1.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21665642
> 
> 
> I checked 9.3 on Friday and today and it's been a simulcast of 9.1.



That is correct, and IMHO, Fox Television Stations - the licensee of WWOR-TV - forewent a unique opportunity to launch Bounce TV just prior to it airing this special coverage. In the New York City market, WABC-TV owned all the other broadcast stations as their solitary coverage of the Whitney Houston funeral was uninterrupted by both commercials and detracting pundit banter.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNBC provided total coverage, commercial free!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21665785
> 
> 
> WNBC provided total coverage, commercial free!



I didn't observe coverage from WNBC as I passed by their channel, but I won't dispute your observation...


----------



## SnellKrell

That's very kind of you!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21659127
> 
> 
> And meanwhile the folks over at CBS can only put test patterns up on 2.2. How much longer do we have to endure that nonsense!



You don't have to endure anything. Don't watch.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21665904
> 
> 
> You don't have to endure anything. Don't watch.



How about instead comments about my post you give us some useful info on CBS 2.2? Like why is a test pattern still up and when is programming going to be put in place. Surely your contacts can give you some info you can post on this forum.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21667464
> 
> 
> How about instead comments about my post you give us some useful info on CBS 2.2?



If you were to ask a reasonable question instead of making snarky comments, you wouldn't have to 'endure' my comments.



> Quote:
> Like why is a test pattern still up and when is programming going to be put in place. Surely your contacts can give you some info you can post on this forum.



I will ask for you and see what I can find out.


----------



## SnellKrell

Some could learn manners and patience from Ken!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21667905
> 
> 
> If you were to ask a reasonable question instead of making snarky comments, you wouldn't have to 'endure' my comments.
> 
> 
> I will ask for you and see what I can find out.



Nice of you Ken. Thanks.


hey KEN. Is TVGOS now stable. Will there be anymore outages? Any word? Thanks


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WASA-LD Port Jervis Fulfills Its Destiny*


When viewers tuned-in to WASA-LD Port Jervis last night expecting the usual infomercial rotation that has been the stations' staple since its December 2009 launch over Channel 25, they instead encountered a black screen. Perhaps the DVD was again having problems as it had several times before? Not this time...


When Liberman Broadcasting, Inc. (LBI) purchased WASA-LD from Venture Technologies for $6 million on March 1, 2010, it was largely expected that LBI would place their Hispanic TV network Estrella TV on its new acquisition. But an earlier deal with Tribune already established Estrella TV on WPIX New York, Channel 11-2, on October 1, 2009, and subsequent deals with regional multichannel video programming distributors (MVPDs) expanded Estrella TV's potential audience in the New York City TV market.


With Estrella TV seemingly firmly established in DMA #1, LBI took a hands-off approach to WASA-LD, only modifying its channel lineup once in February 2011 to add Information Culture News (ICN), both the Chinese and English feeds. All the while, LBI maintained a looping rotation of five half-hour infomercials running 24 hours a day on WASA-LD's primary channel. The lineup consisted of: _Nu-Wave Oven_, _TriVita Super B-12_, _Sweet Soul of the '70s_, _Montel William's Living Well Health Master Blender_, and _The H2O Ultra Steam Mop_.


The looping rotation continued and continued... until February 18, 2012.


Then on Sunday, February 19, 2012, WASA-LD fulfilled its long expected destiny: Estrella TV. The LBI-owned network has finally been placed on WASA-LD's primary channel 24-1.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21665785
> 
> 
> WNBC provided total coverage, commercial free!



So did WWOR.


----------



## Trip in VA

So does that means that Estrella is no longer on WPIX? If so, what is now in its place?


- Trip


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21667464
> 
> 
> How about instead comments about my post you give us some useful info on CBS 2.2? Like why is a test pattern still up and when is programming going to be put in place. Surely your contacts can give you some info you can post on this forum.



The plan is to light up 2.2 tomorrow.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21668262
> 
> 
> hey KEN. Is TVGOS now stable. Will there be anymore outages? Any word? Thanks



TVGOS is stable for now in both NYC & Philly. There may be other technical issues but only time will tell.



Speculation On: Technical aside, I wonder how long the current contract runs for? I wonder if both parties will want to renew it?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21672099
> 
> 
> The plan is to light up 2.2 tomorrow.



Good News. Thanks for digging into this for us OTA folks.


I look forward to having something meaningful rather than test paterns replete with noise!


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21670303
> 
> *WASA-LD Port Jervis Fulfills Its Destiny*
> 
> 
> When viewers tuned-in to WASA-LD Port Jervis last night expecting the usual infomercial rotation



..and how does this serve the people of Port Jervis?

The station does not and never has served that area.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21672249
> 
> 
> TVGOS is stable for now in both NYC & Philly. There may be other technical issues but only time will tell.
> 
> 
> 
> Speculation On: Technical aside, I wonder how long the current contract runs for? I wonder if both parties will want to renew it?



Thank You Ken


Do you know why 9.3 (BounceTV) is just a simulcast of 9.1 ? I thought they had their own programing? They made a big stink about the launch.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You Ken
> 
> 
> Do you know why 9.3 (BounceTV) is just a simulcast of 9.1 ? I thought they had their own programing? They made a big stink about the launch.



Likely to test picture quality of primary and subchannels before official launch.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21671073
> 
> 
> So does that means that Estrella is no longer on WPIX? If so, what is now in its place?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Last time I was scrolling between channels earlier today, I do recall seeing Estrella on 11.2. Why would the network leave a full power station to go with an inferior station? If they do leave, I hope PIX adds MeTV. If not, I hope MeTV can at least end up on WNYW, as their sister station seems to be in the process of adding Bounce.


Also looking forward to tune in to 2.2 -- but why would they launch without any hype at all?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I was scrolling between channels earlier today, I do recall seeing Estrella on 11.2. Why would the network leave a full power station to go with an inferior station? If they do leave, I hope PIX adds MeTV. If not, I hope MeTV can at least end up on WNYW, as their sister station seems to be in the process of adding Bounce.
> 
> 
> Also looking forward to tune in to 2.2 -- but why would they launch without any hype at all?



Because it's kind of cheaper to put a network u own on a station u own than pay WPIX for carriage. They will however lose every viewer they had. If they don't get cable carriage soon, they won't survive.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21674504
> 
> 
> Last time I was scrolling between channels earlier today, I do recall seeing Estrella on 11.2. Why would the network leave a full power station to go with an inferior station?



Perhaps WPIX did not renew their contract.



> Quote:
> If they do leave, I hope PIX adds MeTV.



Why would Tribune make its chief competitor more available?


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21674937
> 
> 
> Because it's kind of cheaper to put a network u own on a station u own than pay WPIX for carriage. They will however lose every viewer they had. If they don't get cable carriage soon, they won't survive.



Estrella TV already enjoys MVPD carriage. Of course, if they lose their spot at WPIX-DT2, it is doubtful that carriage will continue. An option would be to lease time directly from the regional MVPDs, as CaribeVision once did.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21675118
> 
> 
> Why would Tribune make its chief competitor more available?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Financial Prosperity










Actually, the possibility of Me-TV airing over a WPIX subchannel may not be as far-fetched as it seems at first glance. First, Me-TV is actively seeking an opportunity to enter the New York City market so long as they can have access to the same MVPD distribution opportunities as their friendly rival Antenna TV. Second, Me-TV's owner Weigel owns 50% of ThisTV, which already airs over WPIX-DT3. Finally, from a programming standpoint, Me-TV complements ThisTV and Antenna TV. But if this happened, and all else stayed the same, I wouldn't expect to see any promotions for Me-TV on WPIX-DT4


----------



## SubaruB4

I had to adjust my antenna outside because WCBS was hard to get.. now that I have it I've got problems with WNBC lol..


What I need is elevation but it's hard to do in a apartment on the first floor.. I need to go up about 20-30 Ft.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21674937
> 
> 
> Because it's kind of cheaper to put a network u own on a station u own than pay WPIX for carriage. They will however lose every viewer they had. If they don't get cable carriage soon, they won't survive.



That was my point exactly, yes they will save lots by placing their network on their station, however, they will be giving up most of their off air viewers and all of their cable viewers. In looking at the big picture, it seems odd -- unless of course PIX refused to re-up with them, but since they are still on PIX makes it even more odd.


Thanks, Giacomo, that was exactly what I was thinking -- MeTV is a prefect complement to This and Antenna TV. I would not expect them to "sell" MeTV, however if viewers sample MeTV, I am sure they will also watch the other two channels. Here's what I don't get -- PIX has promotions for their news programming on 11.4, spots along with news and weather updates. However, I have never seen any promotion for Antenna TV on 11.1 -- or did I overlook those? Anyway, if if PIX doesn't add Me, I hope Fox 5 is planning on adding a sub as their sister station is in the process of adding Bounce.


----------



## jpru34

A bunch of interesting tidbits about OTA viewers from this article dated today:

http://moneyland.time.com/2012/02/21...article-latest


----------



## SnellKrell

2.2 is hot!


Signal at times goes in and out.


Wish the picture would fill entire screen, as does NY Nonstop.


----------



## LenL

Still on 11.2 from my location. Perhaps it's leaving 11.2 were premature!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/21677534
> 
> 
> A bunch of interesting tidbits about OTA viewers from this article dated today:
> 
> http://moneyland.time.com/2012/02/21...article-latest



I like this info they had on this site..."Still, the number of Americans who receive broadcast channels over the air is tiny, estimated at less than 10%."


So what is 10% of 315 million people? 30 plus million! That's not tiny as this writer wrote. That's more people than the population in many countries. Sure compared to those getting cable, Sat etc. it is small but that is still a lot of buying power!


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21677608
> 
> 
> 2.2 is hot!
> 
> 
> Signal at times goes in and out.
> 
> 
> Wish the picture would fill entire screen, as does NY Nonstop.



filling the screen would look even more shi&*y than it does now


my tuning into cbs+ to see if it was live will be my first and last time, just like all the other horrible sub channels that i will never watch


----------



## LenL

I just tuned in and will pass judgement after I have had some more time seeing the programming.


My first impression is it sort of reminds me of NEWS12 NJ that Cablevision broadcasts.


The picture size is strange but I can adjust it with super stretch on my TV to fill up the screen better.


----------



## icemannyr

CBSNY+ is a 480i 16:9 video feed incorrectly formatted as 4:3 letterboxed before going to the encoder so the video is being letterboxed and stretched on a 16:9 screen when it should be full fame.

Here's a photo from the TV screen adjusted to the correct aspect ratio.
 


It's only the first day but I don't find the channel to be useful if most of the content is recorded video segments can I get on the web. The graphics area takes up to much space.

The channel should be full screen video and let people go to CBSNewYork.com for the more information.


----------



## keyboard21

My aunt likes a Spanish Soap. I forget name or channel. She does not speak Spanish, but watches it anyway.


I tried putting the DTVpal on different Close Caption settings. I have not got ONE Spanish channel to work with any setting besides CC 1. I read that CC 2 or CC 3 would provide English Sub. I can not get it to work. I understand that not every program works with CC 3. Yet I had my aunt try CC with her Soap with no luck. Any suggestions?



I wish Spanish channels would have SAP like some English shows do for Spanish audiences.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/21672099
> 
> 
> The plan is to light up 2.2 tomorrow.



BTW Thank You very much Ken for the Heads up. You were right on the money.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21679643
> 
> 
> My aunt likes a Spanish Soap. I forget name or channel. She does not speak Spanish, but watches it anyway.
> 
> 
> I tried putting the DTVpal on different Close Caption settings. I have not got ONE Spanish channel to work with any setting besides CC 1. I read that CC 2 or CC 3 would provide English Sub. I can not get it to work. I understand that not every program works with CC 3. Yet I had my aunt try CC with her Soap with no luck. Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> 
> I wish Spanish channels would have SAP like some English shows do for Spanish audiences.



I have seen English language closed captioning on channels 41 and 47, though not on CC2 (those are analog captions) try the digital version. On my set they are labeled as Service (thus: Service 2 is in English) and are listed right after the CC options and before Text (which I have never seen in use by any station -- they could easily run news headlines there.) Hope that helps!


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21678564
> 
> 
> It's only the first day but I don't find the channel to be useful if most of the content is recorded video segments can I get on the web. The graphics area takes up to much space.
> 
> The channel should be full screen video and let people go to CBSNewYork.com for the more information.



I agree that the screen size is not optimal, however the wheel format is more annoying with top stories that run just three or four minutes and are repeated four times an hour.


Here is the wheel:


Minutes past the hour


00 Local news

05 Weather

07 Traffic

09 Sports

14 Local news

18 Weather

19 Traffic

23 World news from 1010 WINS

25 Feature (real estate)

30 Local news

35 Weather

37 Traffic

39 Sports

44 Local news

48 Weather

49 Traffic

50 Feature (tech)

53 Feature (dining)

55 Entertainment news


I noticed that sometimes when the "local conditions" are introduced in the weather report, we just see the radar. Temperatures for various areas in the tri-state don't always appear. The traffic report just displays maps and a handful of cameras -- none of the images are identified and there is no audio other than a music bed that is far too short (it ends and restarts each time).


With this format, no one is going to stay tuned in for more than a quarter hour. Too little content and too much repetition. At this point, they make News 12 look good.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21680667
> 
> 
> I agree that the screen size is not optimal, however the wheel format is more annoying with top stories that run just three or four minutes and are repeated four times an hour.
> 
> 
> Here is the wheel:
> 
> 
> Minutes past the hour
> 
> 
> 00 Local news
> 
> 05 Weather
> 
> 07 Traffic
> 
> 09 Sports
> 
> 14 Local news
> 
> 18 Weather
> 
> 19 Traffic
> 
> 23 World news from 1010 WINS
> 
> 25 Feature (real estate)
> 
> 30 Local news
> 
> 35 Weather
> 
> 37 Traffic
> 
> 39 Sports
> 
> 44 Local news
> 
> 48 Weather
> 
> 49 Traffic
> 
> 50 Feature (tech)
> 
> 53 Feature (dining)
> 
> 55 Entertainment news
> 
> 
> I noticed that sometimes when the "local conditions" are introduced in the weather report, we just see the radar. Temperatures for various areas in the tri-state don't always appear. The traffic report just displays maps and a handful of cameras -- none of the images are identified and there is no audio other than a music bed that is far too short (it ends and restarts each time).
> 
> 
> With this format, no one is going to stay tuned in for more than a quarter hour. Too little content and too much repetition. At this point, they make News 12 look good.



Yes News 12 seems to have the niche. They beat Cbs + and Fios 1


You would not think it would be too hard to a get simple channel to look and work correctly


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes News 12 seems to have the niche. They beat Cbs + and Fios 1
> 
> 
> You would not think it would be too hard to a get simple channel to look and work correctly



Its week 1. Give it some time. Took NBC non stop like a year to get aspect ratio correct.


----------



## SubaruB4

Just saw 2.2 is live and yeah the graphics on the right side are too large for the channel


----------



## AloEuro

32-1 CCTV Ne 720x480i 30Hz DolbyStereo English Asiatic/Regional News from China/Tibet, Philipines, Turkey etc.

32-2 CCTV4 720x480 30Hz D.Stereo non English chinese dialects

32-3 CCTV Sp 720x480i 30Hz D.Stereo non English chinese

Sometime the signal is solid 40% locked, as KenH said and Trip would have said, to deliver 100% reception in your TV, but other times too weak going to 0 with pixelation


----------



## LenL

Interesting piece from the Wall Stree Journal. It may have been posted before. Got the link from Solid Signal. I also saw something where antenna retailers are doing a booming business. They are selling antennas like crazy. So anyone saying OTA is dying is way wrong. It would appear it is growing by leaps and bounds and will emerge as a force to be reckoned with in the future! When you click on the link it will take you to a WSJ video and just click play button.

http://www.solidsignal.com/p/?p=3123...se&location=01


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey AloEuro,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/21691966
> 
> 
> 32-1 CCTV Ne 720x480i 30Hz DolbyStereo English Asiatic/Regional News from China/Tibet, Philipines, Turkey etc.
> 
> 32-2 CCTV4 720x480 30Hz D.Stereo non English chinese dialects
> 
> 32-3 CCTV Sp 720x480i 30Hz D.Stereo non English chinese
> 
> Sometime the signal is solid 40% locked, as KenH said and Trip would have said, to deliver 100% reception in your TV, but other times too weak going to 0 with pixelation



Thanks for the reception report! Glad to hear WXNY-LD is back on the air and with multiple program streams. I notice signal activity on WNYX-LD channel 35, but unfortunately have always been unable to decode the former "Island LDs" Can you please check to see if channel 35 is on the air with the same CCTV programming?

*WRNN-TV Kingston Update:* WRNN-TV has added a new subchannel on 48-5. NHK World TV has recently joined the WRNN-TV broadcast lineup. NHK World is the international broadcasting service of NHK (Nippon Hōsō Kyōkai - Japan Broadcasting Corporation), Japan's public broadcaster. NHK WORLD TV provides NHK's news and information programs in English.


As with each of its streams, the PSIP TVCT IDs with the call letters as *WRNN-D5*. It is SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio. No program guide information is available for any WRNN-TV channel.


----------



## dagger666

has anyone noticed channel 9 has added another sub station







, funny they all seam to air the same thing during the day hours but last night 9-3 had a movie while 9-1-2 played the same stuff as always. Yeah CBS has fianly added a sub station







, i guess that has all you sub station haters pissed


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/21695686
> 
> 
> has anyone noticed channel 9 has added another sub station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , funny they all seam to air the same thing during the day hours but last night 9-3 had a movie while 9-1-2 played the same stuff as always. Yeah CBS has fianly added a sub station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , i guess that has all you sub station haters pissed



9.3 is supposed to be BOUNCE TV. But the programing is just a copy of 9.1 and 9.2. We are hoping they will broadcast BOUNCE TV programing soon.

http://www.bouncetv.com/ 



2.2 is CBS PLUS It is NEWS, WEATHER, SPORTS, TRAFFIC


So far it is the same news all day. Some complained that it is the same news they could get over the internet in two minutes. Also they do not update the news and repeat the old news all day.


For the older viewers it is a good add on station. Every ten minutes you get the local weather. It is similar to news 12


----------



## SnellKrell

9.3 is Bounce and is tranmitting its programming.


Noticed this as of yesterday and just checked it out - it's Bounce.


----------



## pantrychef

I can verify the following new adds/deletions/change from my location as of now:


2-2 CBSNY+ (add)

9-3 Bounce (add)

23-4 test pattern (change)

24-1 no signal (change)

47-2 Exitos (add)

47-3 SOI (add)

48-5 NHK World (add)

63-7 Aliento (add)

63-8 WDNJ (move)

63-9 KCBN (move)


as for the new signals on RF 32, from here I see 0 signal strength even though the Longley-Rice plots have my location as yellow-green. oh well...


----------



## rothe

For at least two or three days, I have not been able to receive/decode NJTV (channel 50) at all, when I previously had stellar reception of this channel. All other channels are still coming in fine.


I even just went and checked the antenna connection with my spectrum analyzer. This station, as well as every other that I can normally receive, has a good, strong, CLEAN signal - meaning no signs of multipath or noise, as per the analyzer's signal strength, carrier-to-noise ratio and error rate measurements. Even the spectrum chart of the channel looks great. I SHOULD be receiving this station just fine.


But still, I can't decode anything on the station.


Note that I am using a home theater PC, with tuners built by Hauppauge. Captured files are being recorded, but can't be decoded for watching or format conversion. Again, every other station is working fine for me.


Are any others having trouble viewing this station?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21696127
> 
> 
> 9.3 is Bounce and is tranmitting its programming.
> 
> 
> Noticed this as of yesterday and just checked it out - it's Bounce.



Yea I was told it started today ,but I guess it could be yesterday


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21697726
> 
> 
> For at least two or three days, I have not been able to receive/decode NJTV (channel 50) at all, when I previously had stellar reception of this channel. All other channels are still coming in fine.
> 
> 
> I even just went and checked the antenna connection with my spectrum analyzer. This station, as well as every other that I can normally receive, has a good, strong, CLEAN signal - meaning no signs of multipath or noise, as per the analyzer's signal strength, carrier-to-noise ratio and error rate measurements. Even the spectrum chart of the channel looks great. I SHOULD be receiving this station just fine.
> 
> 
> But still, I can't decode anything on the station.
> 
> 
> Note that I am using a home theater PC, with tuners built by Hauppauge. Captured files are being recorded, but can't be decoded for watching or format conversion. Again, every other station is working fine for me.
> 
> 
> Are any others having trouble viewing this station?



I just noticed that myself a little while ago just killing time channel surfing.


Seems to be isolated to Ch. 50. Sister station Ch. 58 decodes fine.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21696127
> 
> 
> 9.3 is Bounce and is tranmitting its programming.
> 
> 
> Noticed this as of yesterday and just checked it out - it's Bounce.



Heard there were some movies too. Anything good to watch?


----------



## SnellKrell

You be the judge -

http://www.bouncetv.com/


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21697910
> 
> 
> You be the judge -
> 
> http://www.bouncetv.com/



Was asking your opinion


----------



## SnellKrell

My taste has nothing to do with yours.


Why don't you look at the schedule and watch the channel.


I have found most sub-channels a waste of bandwidth and time.


So I'm prejudiced against them!!!!


----------



## RichNorthNJ

Of the 4 (OR WAS IT 5?) OTA "lost" channels, Tuff TV, RTV, drive in tv, & Hot TV channel, the latter (which is back) is the WORSE of the 4!!!







I don't even bother to watch it much except the cartoons. I miss the classic car shows, Starsky & Hutch, 70's the comedy shop, etc. on the other channels.









WILL ANY OF THEM EVER COME BACK TO NORTHERN NJ?









I can ONLY pick up Hot tv channel with the magnavox dig to anal converter & with the Big Lots $10 rabbit ears with adjustable signal dial.

I can NOT pick up hot tv with my Zinwell converter or any other antenna - including roof antennas. & I am only 12 miles from NYC.







Go figure. lol

Thank goodness for the THIS network & antenna tv.

& with 100% signal strength & 100% signal quality, I still get macroblocking

all of a sudden say every 10 minutes for a few seconds & then goes away.









My dad says reception was a lot more consistent in 1949 lmao.

BRING BACK ANALOG.

I am going to keep my 32" TUBE toshiba tv. I still use VCR to record.









& all the programs (& movies too) are in the old aspect ratio ON ANT TV & THIS NETWORK.








*ANY PLANS FOR MOVIES TO GO TO LETTERBOX ON THESE CHANNELS?*








*CAN THE BLACK BANDS ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS PICTURE USING A MORE RECTANGULAR MODERN SET CAUSE BURN IN ON LED, LCD OR PLASMA SETS?
*I intend to keep my tube set till it breaks, or the classic tv channels go under, whichever comes 1st.
*INTERESTING QUESTION - IF I GET A NEW FLAT TV WITH DIGITAL TUNER, OBVIOUSLY I CAN NOT RECORD FROM THIS TV'S TUNER WITH MY VCR, BUT IF I USE MY DIGITAL TO ANALOG CONVERTER & RECORD, CAN I PLAY BACK AN ANALOG SIGNAL ON THESE NEW TV'S? I HAVE SEVERAL VCR'S IN GOOD WORKING ORDER.

& DVR'S ARE NOT CHEAP.*

I AM cheap. lol


----------



## jpru34

On my TV I have 100% signal strength on channel 50 but it says "audio only" on my TV and I hear the audio perfectly - just no picture. Anybody know what is going on? I see comments below indicating that others are having problems with this channel as well.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/21698445
> 
> 
> On my TV I have 100% signal strength on channel 50 but it says "audio only" on my TV and I hear the audio perfectly - just no picture. Anybody know what is going on? I see comments below indicating that others are having problems with this channel as well.



Interesting that you can pick up the audio. With my home theater PC, captured streams from this channel simply don't decode, whether for live viewing or for DVR functions. But they will capture into a file.


I have some file analysis tools that I'll try to use against a new stream capture. Will report back later.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/21698445
> 
> 
> On my TV I have 100% signal strength on channel 50 but it says "audio only" on my TV and I hear the audio perfectly - just no picture. Anybody know what is going on? I see comments below indicating that others are having problems with this channel as well.



Here's a thought.


Channel 50.1 is WNJN-DT, but the station has a sub-channel - 50.3 which is

NJ Audiovision, an audio only channel.


Could it be that you're tuning into 50.3 instead of 50.1?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ME!* /forum/post/21699120
> 
> 
> I have some file analysis tools that I'll try to use against a new stream capture. Will report back later.



So much for that.


A typical 1/2 hour program is usually a few gigabytes in size. I just tried a fresh capture, and it came out to only a few megabytes.


One of the captured-file analysis tools that I have - a freeware program called MPEG2Repair - can usually show me the error rates and error types in captured files. But it can't even identify a program ID in the stream.


In other words, I can't add anything more to this diagnostic effort.


----------



## Mister B




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/21698225
> 
> 
> INTERESTING QUESTION - IF I GET A NEW FLAT TV WITH DIGITAL TUNER, OBVIOUSLY I CAN NOT RECORD FROM THIS TV'S TUNER WITH MY VCR, BUT IF I USE MY DIGITAL TO ANALOG CONVERTER & RECORD, CAN I _PLAY BACK_ AN ANALOG SIGNAL ON THESE NEW TV'S? I HAVE SEVERAL VCR'S IN GOOD WORKING ORDER.
> 
> & DVR'S ARE NOT CHEAP.
> 
> I AM cheap. lol



Yes, you certainly can connect a VCR's yellow composite video out to a corresponding video input on a modern TV. Also, the same with the red and white audio connections. Do be aware that the picture will not look as good on a HDTV as your old tube set. I would keep that old 32 inch tube as long as you are intersted in older shows and sub-channels with the use of a VCR.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21699150
> 
> 
> Here's a thought.
> 
> 
> Channel 50.1 is WNJN-DT, but the station has a sub-channel - 50.3 which is
> 
> NJ Audiovision, an audio only channel.
> 
> 
> Could it be that you're tuning into 50.3 instead of 50.1?



50.1 now has no audio or picture. This is with 100% signal sterngth. Obviously something going on there.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/21700511
> 
> 
> 50.1 now has no audio or picture. This is with 100% signal sterngth. Obviously something going on there.



there also is now 51.1 showing NJTV


----------



## icemannyr

Could it be a PSIP error effecting some TVs and Tuners?

I did a channel search on my Insignia TV Saturday and NJTV-HD showed up on 51.1 with no PSIP ID and NJTV-AV showed up on 50.1 with a PSIP ID of NJTV.

On the Samsung TV the locations are still correct on 50.1 NJTV-HD and 50.3 NJTV-AV after doing a rescan.


I've noticed something similar with WNYE. My Insignia TV correctly maps the channels to their PSIP locations of 25.1 and 25.2.

The Samsung TV does not receive the PSIP information has them on 24.3 and 24.4.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21702836
> 
> 
> Could it be a PSIP error effecting some TVs and Tuners?



It apparently wasn't "some TVs and Tuners." It was widespread. Some time before midnight last night, the problem was resolved.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21703019
> 
> 
> It apparently wasn't "some TVs and Tuners." It was widespread. Some time before midnight last night, the problem was resolved.



Yesterday early afternoon I was at my mom's house trying to do a rescan on her TV to pick up the new subs for her and I could not get the 2 NJ PBS she usually receives 50.1 and 58.1. Not only that but her RCA converter box was actually freezing up during the scan for new channelsI tried about 30 scans and they all froze at the same spot.


When I went home I also found that the NJ PBS stations were gone. They were back at night.


Today I will go back to moms and try the scan again.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21695452
> 
> 
> Hey AloEuro,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reception report! Glad to hear WXNY-LD is back on the air and with multiple program streams. I notice signal activity on WNYX-LD channel 35, but unfortunately have always been unable to decode the former "Island LDs" Can you please check to see if channel 35 is on the air with the same CCTV programming?
> 
> *WRNN-TV Kingston Update:* WRNN-TV has added a new subchannel on 48-5. NHK World TV has recently joined the WRNN-TV broadcast lineup. NHK World is the international broadcasting service of NHK (Nippon Hōsō Kyōkai - Japan Broadcasting Corporation), Japan's public broadcaster. NHK WORLD TV provides NHK's news and information programs in English.
> 
> 
> As with each of its streams, the PSIP TVCT IDs with the call letters as *WRNN-D5*. It is SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio. No program guide
> 
> information is available for any WRNN-TV channel.



Ch. 35 - 1,2,3 are identical to 32 -1,2,3 the 32ch. has stronger signal, the 35ch. is so bad I had to edit it out.

Correction -32-3 CCTV Sp apparently means Espanol, on 32-3 I have seen Chinese movie/serial with Spanish subtitles


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/21698225
> 
> 
> I am going to keep my 32" TUBE toshiba tv. I still use VCR to record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> & I HAVE SEVERAL VCR'S IN GOOD WORKING ORDER.
> 
> & DVR'S ARE NOT CHEAP



. Many people don't realize that for record keeping -not PQ- VCR tapes are superior to computer generated DVD copies, the fact that VHS tapes are rolled,100's rolls make the electromagnetic print preserved as compared to flat open DVD disk


----------



## Keith

last time i checked, 9-3 was still wwor


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21702836
> 
> 
> Could it be a PSIP error effecting some TVs and Tuners?
> 
> I did a channel search on my Insignia TV Saturday and NJTV-HD showed up on 51.1 with no PSIP ID and NJTV-AV showed up on 50.1 with a PSIP ID of NJTV.
> 
> On the Samsung TV the locations are still correct on 50.1 NJTV-HD and 50.3 NJTV-AV after doing a rescan.
> 
> 
> I've noticed something similar with WNYE. My Insignia TV correctly maps the channels to their PSIP locations of 25.1 and 25.2.
> 
> The Samsung TV does not receive the PSIP information has them on 24.3 and 24.4.



Your speculation about a PSIP error was correct.


Yesterday morning, I sent a message to the Director of Engineering at WNET/NJTV/WLIW. He replied a little while ago:



> Quote:
> Thank you for your email yesterday describing the problem you were
> 
> seeing with Channel 50 out of Montclair. We were experiencing issues
> 
> with the PSIP generation which resulted in some tuners not able to
> 
> receive and decode the signal properly. We were able to get this
> 
> resolved later in the afternoon at about 4:00 pm. Please let me know if
> 
> your problem has been resolved as I believe it has been. I would also be
> 
> interested in knowing which receiver or television set you were using.



Nice of him to reply. I'm just glad it's fixed.


----------



## R.F. Burns

What is going on with WWOR? Earlier today I was able to see WWOR-3 and now it's gone. It doesn't even appear on some of my sets, as though they've stopped broadcasting an HD-3 signal.(this on a variety of ADSC tuners) On top of that, WWOR-1 doesn't exist. All I receive is a blank screen. I get WWOR-2 and as said untill this evening WWOR-3 was solid. Obviously there are problems because they are the only full power NY signal I'm having trouble with. Channel 50 has also disappeared, but wher they had a great signal in analog, they've never had a goood digital signal here, which is about 20 miles at most from their tower.


----------



## zoetmb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/21698225
> 
> 
> Of the 4 (OR WAS IT 5?) OTA "lost" channels, Tuff TV, RTV, drive in tv, & Hot TV channel, the latter (which is back) is the WORSE of the 4!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even bother to watch it much except the cartoons. I miss the classic car shows, Starsky & Hutch, 70's the comedy shop, etc. on the other channels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WILL ANY OF THEM EVER COME BACK TO NORTHERN NJ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can ONLY pick up Hot tv channel with the magnavox dig to anal converter & with the Big Lots $10 rabbit ears with adjustable signal dial.
> 
> I can NOT pick up hot tv with my Zinwell converter or any other antenna - including roof antennas. & I am only 12 miles from NYC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go figure. lol
> 
> Thank goodness for the THIS network & antenna tv.
> 
> & with 100% signal strength & 100% signal quality, I still get macroblocking
> 
> all of a sudden say every 10 minutes for a few seconds & then goes away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dad says reception was a lot more consistent in 1949 lmao.
> 
> BRING BACK ANALOG.
> 
> I am going to keep my 32" TUBE toshiba tv. I still use VCR to record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> & all the programs (& movies too) are in the old aspect ratio ON ANT TV & THIS NETWORK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ANY PLANS FOR MOVIES TO GO TO LETTERBOX ON THESE CHANNELS?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CAN THE BLACK BANDS ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS PICTURE USING A MORE RECTANGULAR MODERN SET CAUSE BURN IN ON LED, LCD OR PLASMA SETS?
> *I intend to keep my tube set till it breaks, or the classic tv channels go under, whichever comes 1st.
> *INTERESTING QUESTION - IF I GET A NEW FLAT TV WITH DIGITAL TUNER, OBVIOUSLY I CAN NOT RECORD FROM THIS TV'S TUNER WITH MY VCR, BUT IF I USE MY DIGITAL TO ANALOG CONVERTER & RECORD, CAN I PLAY BACK AN ANALOG SIGNAL ON THESE NEW TV'S? I HAVE SEVERAL VCR'S IN GOOD WORKING ORDER.
> 
> & DVR'S ARE NOT CHEAP.*
> 
> I AM cheap. lol



Providing that your new TV has a composite video input (and analog audio in), yes...you can output your VCR to the TV. But be careful because not all new TVs have these analog inputs anymore - both TVs and receivers are starting to dump legacy connections. Few new components have s-video anymore, for example. My 2011 Sony TV has an accessory dongle (that was included with the set) that plugs into an accessory port and includes a composite and a component input.


But after you live with HDTV for a bit, you won't want to. Because even though you're living with SD today, it's going to really look like crap in comparison and you won't want to watch it.


As for reception, I'm in Queens without line of site to the Empire State Building living in a six-story building. I never thought our roof antenna would pick up HDTV signals, but I get perfect reception on every OTA channel. We're not far from the ESB (only about 7 miles), but as I said, no line of site.


And yes, reception might have been more consistent in 1949, but it was consistently bad. And there were far fewer tall buildings to bounce signals off of and get ghost images. The fact is that fewer than 15% of the population today gets their signal today OTA and the Government wants that bandwidth back and it's going to be making offers to OTA stations to buy it back so it can be used for cell phone bandwidth. I don't think the big stations in NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, etc., will sell back their bandwidth, but a whole slew of smaller stations will take the money and run.


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21706042
> 
> 
> What is going on with WWOR? Earlier today I was able to see WWOR-3 and now it's gone. It doesn't even appear on some of my sets, as though they've stopped broadcasting an HD-3 signal.(this on a variety of ADSC tuners) On top of that, WWOR-1 doesn't exist. All I receive is a blank screen. I get WWOR-2 and as said untill this evening WWOR-3 was solid. Obviously there are problems because they are the only full power NY signal I'm having trouble with. Channel 50 has also disappeared, but wher they had a great signal in analog, they've never had a goood digital signal here, which is about 20 miles at most from their tower.



Earlier Monday I noticed the same thing that all I could tune in was 9.2.

Did a rescan and 9.1, 9.2 and 9.3 were there.


----------



## R.F. Burns

First, I meant to type ATSC tuner, so sorry for the mistake. I did a rescan and 9-3 actually disappeared from my available channels list. It appears that WWOR is not broadcasting an OTA HD signal. Looking at their webpage shows that there is no contact info.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just checked and this is what I'm receiving OTA:


9.1 - 720p


9.2 - 480i


9.3 - Bounce - 480i


----------



## dm145

currently wwor and wnyw are no longer simulcasting each other in sd on x.2


wnyw hd is 5.1

wnyw sd is 5.2 (use to be wwor sd)


wwor hd is 9.1

wwor sd is 9.2 (use to be wnyw sd)

bounce is 9.3


----------



## LenL

CBS programming for their new sub 2.2 is doomed to failure. I tuned in late Sunday night to get a sports update and what I got was a review of the daytime sports schedule of games that already played many hours earlier and for which they should have been giving scores. This is very poor programming and something you would expect from a low budget college facility.


Quite frankly I was looking forward to the format expecting I could drop in on the station periodically and get an update on the weather, sports and news and not have to wait for the 6, 10 or 11 PM news. Considering that CBS has the resources of WINS 1010, CBS 880, and CBS NY TV it is hard to understand how they can run such stale news, weather and sports programming.


By the way this note is being sent to CBS too but will probably go in a black hole like the rest of my notes to them.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/21708020
> 
> 
> currently wwor and wnyw are no longer simulcasting each other in sd on x.2
> 
> 
> wnyw hd is 5.1
> 
> wnyw sd is 5.2 (use to be wwor sd)
> 
> 
> wwor hd is 9.1
> 
> wwor sd is 9.2 (use to be wnyw sd)
> 
> bounce is 9.3



Thanks for the update! I just happen to be at my moms over the weekend and did a scan of stations and all kinds of issues cropped up with her RCA Converter BOX. I thought it was the box as it froze up after scanning 61% of the frequencies. Sunday I worked on it again and when it froze at 61% I pulled the anntenna feed in and it started scanning again and I put the feed back in right away to pick up stations beyond the 61%. When it was done scanning there were no 5.1 and 9.2 channels. I thought I lost them but now feel better after reading your note. However something caused the RCA box to freeze on us. The work around I tried at least got her all of her stations back except for 1 as far as I can tell. Even NJN 50.1. NJ 58.1 is not there now for some reason.


I'll try again this week to see if the RCA box is dying or if there was some OTA feed that was causing it to freeeze up over the weekend that has now been fixed.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/21708020
> 
> 
> currently wwor and wnyw are no longer simulcasting each other in sd on x.2
> 
> 
> wnyw hd is 5.1
> 
> wnyw sd is 5.2 (use to be wwor sd)
> 
> 
> wwor hd is 9.1
> 
> wwor sd is 9.2 (use to be wnyw sd)
> 
> bounce is 9.3



Checking this on 2-28-12 at 4:30PM: This is false. There has been no change. The simulcasting continues in the same manner as it has been.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21708063
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update! I just happen to be at my moms over the weekend and did a scan of stations and all kinds of issues cropped up with her RCA Converter BOX. I thought it was the box as it froze up after scanning 61% of the frequencies. Sunday I worked on it again and when it froze at 61% I pulled the anntenna feed in and it started scanning again and I put the feed back in right away to pick up stations beyond the 61%. When it was done scanning there were no 5.1 and 9.2 channels. I thought I lost them but now feel better after reading your note. However something caused the RCA box to freeze on us. The work around I tried at least got her all of her stations back except for 1 as far as I can tell. Even NJN 50.1. NJ 58.1 is not there now for some reason.
> 
> 
> I'll try again this week to see if the RCA box is dying or if there was some OTA feed that was causing it to freeeze up over the weekend that has now been fixed.



Len, it is possible that at the time of your scan, RF 44 was off-air for some reason. As to the NJTV situation, rothe has reported that an NJTV engineer confirmed a PSIP generation error.


It is also worth noting that the recent changing weather pattern could have interrupted typical reception patterns. On Sunday night up until shortly after 8AM Monday morning, I had near uninterrupted reception of WDVB-LD, WTBY-TV and WRNN-TV. These visitors drop in on me from time to time, but rarely stick around long enough to make themselves comfortable. But Sunday night they were coming in pretty strong, about 75% at least. Once the weather pattern changed on Monday, not only did I lose them, I also briefly lost WEBR-CD and WKOB-LD, though I suspect the latter was also due to errant impulse noise.

*WDVB-LD Edison Update*: While there has been no change to the lineup on this low-power channel 23 operation, it is worth noting that 23-4 MATV is now an SMPTE test pattern under which you can barely hear the audio from 23-3 SAB TV. I suspect the test pattern is due to an issue with the transmission of Midlands Asian Television (MATV) to WDVB-LD, though I cannot determine whether this issue is caused by MATV or WDVB-LD. The good news is that the audio issues on 23-3 which prevented monaural receivers from adequately reproducing the sound have apparently been resolved.


----------



## keyboard21

Anyone seen Trip in VA?


If he sees this. I was wondering if he knew what other Sub-channels or Sub-changes we could expect this year 2012.


Now that CBS 2.2 and 9.3 Bounce Tv are up and running.


Can we expect anything else?


For example will NBC fill the void on 4.4?


Thanks Trip


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21710922
> 
> 
> Can we expect anything else?



KIN TV is signed with Fox whenever they get that up and running.



> Quote:
> For example will NBC fill the void on 4.4?



No.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


Yes all is back to normal. I saw that later.... after I posted and did a scan at my house. Whatever happened it was strange.


----------



## R.F. Burns

I found that when I moved my antenna a little to the west, WWOR 1, 2 & 3 returned. Considering the fact that all other NY stations have very strong signals and channel 9 used to be very strong as well (it's now only 2 bars-whatever that really means, where most NY stations are 5 bars). It's very odd because until a day or so ago I was able to receive WWOR 2 & 3 with no problem with the antenna in my attic. The antenna boom length is a little over 6 feet, so it's not a small TV antenna.


----------



## fiddlerontheroof

Giacomo,


What antenna are you using to be able to receive wtby, wkob, wrnn and webr at times? And can you receive wsah, wliw and wlny (RF 47 or 45)? And does anyone in this forum know of a good indoor antenna to get that might receive these channels transmitting from the ESB that Giacomo speaks of. I'm about 5miles west of the ESB and I have no issues receiving all the other major networks using a bow-tie or rabbit ears indoor antenna.


----------



## AloEuro

ch.CBS 2 -2 has amateur format for small screen TV, ch.ABC 7-3 had much better format

2-2 uses 5 to 7days horizontally the present day and next day are not seen and only the following days are shown on weather report, idiots.

ch.ABC 7 - 3 used to have vertical format, easy to see and to discern.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21711560
> 
> 
> KIN TV is signed with Fox whenever they get that up and running.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> - Trip



First of all thanks. Now I have something to ask the board over and over and over. Just joking.


The website looks simple. Not much there,but a flash intro and a little video. I can't really tell what it is. Or what KIN has to do with Rocky 3 as they shown in the video.


Just one follow up question. The only channel my aunt can not get. That she would like to get is WLIW 21 . Any chance there will be a NYC repeater this year? It is a shame they do not do that. Or maybe a huge boost in signal?


----------



## fiddlerontheroof

Icemannyr, I have the same issue with my Samsung tv set with virtual channel 25 mapping to 24.3 and 24.4. Also, when I'm able to pick WRNN at times, channel 48 would disappear for several hours during the course of the day and then reappear. My Zenith DTV converter box does not have these two issues. However, now when subchannels 48.1-4 disappears, my Samsung set is able to lock on to 48.5 (NHK World) and this sub was recently added. Does anyone know why this is happening? My Samsung set was manufactured in 2008 and the Samsung 2009 model does not have the mapping issue for virtual channel 25. I don't know if the 2009 model has issues with WRNN because my friend has this set and cannot receive WRNN because of her location.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/21708020
> 
> 
> currently wwor and wnyw are no longer simulcasting each other in sd on x.2
> 
> 
> wnyw hd is 5.1
> 
> wnyw sd is 5.2 (use to be wwor sd)
> 
> 
> wwor hd is 9.1
> 
> wwor sd is 9.2 (use to be wnyw sd)
> 
> bounce is 9.3



regardless of what giacomo claims

this is still the case for me

2-29-12

2:27PM


----------



## icemannyr

The guide data for 5.2 says "WNYW simulcast on WWOR-TV Transmitter" and 9.2 says "WWOR-TV simulcast on WNYW Transmitter".


----------



## dturturro

With all of the changes lately does anyone have a current list of how much bandwidth each channel is transmitting?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> regardless of what giacomo claims
> 
> this is still the case for me
> 
> 2-29-12
> 
> 2:27PM



U and only u. 5 & 9 simulcast each other in SD to supplement each others coverage just like 41 & 68.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21716583
> 
> 
> U and only u. 5 & 9 simulcast each other in SD to supplement each others coverage just like 41 & 68.



Same here. Fox 5's SD backup is broadcast from WWOR's transmitter, they just adjust the PSIP to 5.2. It causes my converter box to act strangely, as someone mentioned earlier for their RCA box. I have a Craig digital to analog box, and it also stops at 61% with each scan. Apparently the flip of of channel numbering causes the box to freeze. I do not get Fox 5 nor the back up of WWOR. The simulcasts of 41 and 68 don't have this problem as they don't flip the PSIPs this way. I have not tried unplugging the antenna, but will give that a shot. How much longer will WNYW be transmitting 5.1 and 9.2 and the other way around for WWOR? I also have issues with WNYE on my Samsung TV appearing on 24. WNYE did respond some time ago that they are looking at the problem.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21716583
> 
> 
> U and only u. 5 & 9 simulcast each other in SD to supplement each others coverage just like 41 & 68.



nope

not just me

that would be highly improbable


and no, i am not going to rescan

nor do i really care what is on the subs

was just pointing it out to the poster who had channel issues


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fiddlerontheroof* /forum/post/21713754
> 
> 
> Giacomo,
> 
> 
> What antenna are you using to be able to receive wtby, wkob, wrnn and webr at times? And can you receive wsah, wliw and wlny (RF 47 or 45)? And does anyone in this forum know of a good indoor antenna to get that might receive these channels transmitting from the ESB that Giacomo speaks of. I'm about 5miles west of the ESB and I have no issues receiving all the other major networks using a bow-tie or rabbit ears indoor antenna.



An indoor antenna of any kind will prove insufficient for the reception you speak of. I use a large outdoor antenna with long VHF-Lo elements intended to receive stations from up to 200 miles away. However, I have it in my attic as opposed to outside.


My problem is elevation, which is approximately 45 feet. You wouldn't believe how many low-powers I see with a trace of signal that I suspect would decode if only I was at higher elevation







And when I've tried using an amplifier, I've only impeded my reliable reception of existing stations.


As to WLIW and WLNY-TV, I again see a trace of signal that is too low to decode. As to WSAH-TV, I do not receive any trace of that signal whatsoever.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21708021
> 
> 
> CBS programming for their new sub 2.2 is doomed to failure. I tuned in late Sunday night to get a sports update and what I got was a review of the daytime sports schedule of games that already played many hours earlier and for which they should have been giving scores. This is very poor programming and something you would expect from a low budget college facility.
> 
> 
> Quite frankly I was looking forward to the format expecting I could drop in on the station periodically and get an update on the weather, sports and news and not have to wait for the 6, 10 or 11 PM news. Considering that CBS has the resources of WINS 1010, CBS 880, and CBS NY TV it is hard to understand how they can run such stale news, weather and sports programming.
> 
> 
> By the way this note is being sent to CBS too but will probably go in a black hole like the rest of my notes to them.



I tuned in late Saturday afternoon and saw a tape of the weekday anchors still running. By Sunday afternoon, the weekend anchors added an update which was all of one minute followed by more from the weekday anchors. One to four minutes of news is far too little. Airing the same headlines all day is too repetitive, not to mention all weekend. By the way, the 24 concept isn't correct -- children's programming aired on Sunday morning. I guess you can get your news fix from Sunday Morning, Face the Nation, etc...


----------



## fiddlerontheroof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21716932
> 
> 
> Same here. Fox 5's SD backup is broadcast from WWOR's transmitter, they just adjust the PSIP to 5.2. It causes my converter box to act strangely, as someone mentioned earlier for their RCA box. I have a Craig digital to analog box, and it also stops at 61% with each scan. Apparently the flip of of channel numbering causes the box to freeze. I do not get Fox 5 nor the back up of WWOR. The simulcasts of 41 and 68 don't have this problem as they don't flip the PSIPs this way. I have not tried unplugging the antenna, but will give that a shot. How much longer will WNYW be transmitting 5.1 and 9.2 and the other way around for WWOR? I also have issues with WNYE on my Samsung TV appearing on 24. WNYE did respond some time ago that they are looking at the problem.



NYC, I have the same issue with my samsung set (2008 model). What year is your model? My friend has the 2009 model and does not have this mapping problem. I believe that it's from Samsung's end. Do you pick up WRNN (ch.48), and if so, do you have issues locking on to the channel?


----------



## fiddlerontheroof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21717398
> 
> 
> An indoor antenna of any kind will prove insufficient for the reception you speak of. I use a large outdoor antenna with long VHF-Lo elements intended to receive stations from up to 200 miles away. However, I have it in my attic as opposed to outside.
> 
> 
> My problem is elevation, which is approximately 45 feet. You wouldn't believe how many low-powers I see with a trace of signal that I suspect would decode if only I was at higher elevation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And when I've tried using an amplifier, I've only impeded my reliable reception of existing stations.
> 
> 
> As to WLIW and WLNY-TV, I again see a trace of signal that is too low to decode. As to WSAH-TV, I do not receive any trace of that signal whatsoever.



My single bow-tie antenna picks up all the major English and Spanish local networks in addition to WMBC, WFME, WASA and WDVB. It also picks up WRNN and WPXO (ch. 34) only when it's hooked up to my Zenith DTA converter box. But when I hook it up to my Samsung's digital tuner, it usually doesn't pick it up and then sometimes it doesn't lock on to 48.1-4, but it locks on to 48.5 if it detects a signal. That's why I was asking if anyone knows of a better indoor antenna w/o amplification to try and get these low powered stations.


----------



## DTVintermods

for 3 dB improvement get double bow tie for $12:
http://www.summitsource.com/channel-...49-p-7193.html


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fiddlerontheroof* /forum/post/21718531
> 
> 
> NYC, I have the same issue with my samsung set (2008 model). What year is your model? My friend has the 2009 model and does not have this mapping problem. I believe that it's from Samsung's end. Do you pick up WRNN (ch.48), and if so, do you have issues locking on to the channel?



Fiddlerontheroof:


I know I purchased the set in 2009. The model is 2333HD-TV/MTR. It is actually a computer monitor with analog, digital and cable QAM TV tuners. Aside from that one minor problem with WNYE, it works perfectly.


I was able to tune in WRNN only once, and even then it was a very weak signal, using an outdoor antenna, for me in the north east Bronx.


When I have a moment this weekend, I will try rescanning my Craig converter and see if I can get past 61% by detaching the antenna. I am convinced that it freezes when it comes upon channels 5.1 and 9.2 emanating from the same transmitter. I have heard that some other boxes that do process those channels, do it in an odd way by placing 5.2 first, as it is RF 38, then 5.1 at RF 44.


----------



## fiddlerontheroof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21719575
> 
> 
> for 3 dB improvement get double bow tie for $12:
> http://www.summitsource.com/channel-...49-p-7193.html



Thanks DTVintermods, but I've actually tried that one with no luck in receiving the low powered stations.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21722242
> 
> 
> Fiddlerontheroof:
> 
> 
> I know I purchased the set in 2009. The model is 2333HD-TV/MTR. It is actually a computer monitor with analog, digital and cable QAM TV tuners. Aside from that one minor problem with WNYE, it works perfectly.
> 
> 
> I was able to tune in WRNN only once, and even then it was a very weak signal, using an outdoor antenna, for me in the north east Bronx.
> 
> 
> When I have a moment this weekend, I will try rescanning my Craig converter and see if I can get past 61% by detaching the antenna. I am convinced that it freezes when it comes upon channels 5.1 and 9.2 emanating from the same transmitter. I have heard that some other boxes that do process those channels, do it in an odd way by placing 5.2 first, as it is RF 38, then 5.1 at RF 44.



My mom's RCA converter box was freezing at 61% and I finally decided to simply pull the antenna feed momentarily till it started scanning again and then I quickly attached it again (the feed is a push on coax) and I picked up everything except 5.1 and 58.1 for some strange reason. I will probably do a scan again in a week or so to see if the issue has corrected itself. She is happy and does not know the difference between 5.1 and 5.2. On an analog TV it doesn't matter.


----------



## dagger666




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21697957
> 
> 
> Was asking your opinion



Looking at the web site would sum it up in word CRAP!


What is on 13-5 ?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666* /forum/post/21728676
> 
> 
> Looking at the web site would sum it up in word CRAP!
> 
> 
> What is on 13-5 ?



Trick question?


----------



## SnellKrell

"What is on 13-5 ?"


According to RabbitEars, Artifact of Update TV - not showing programming.


----------



## icemannyr

WABC needs to give bandwidth from 7.2 back to 7.1 and drop the SD feed on 7.3.

I did a 57min recording of WABC-DT 7.1 this morning and the total file size was only 3.8 GB which is way to small.

Since WNBC dropped 4.2 an hour recording of WNBC-DT 4.1 is now around 6.5 GB, about 2.7 GB more then WABC 7.1.


Here's the info from the recording,

Type: MPEG transport stream

Duration: 0:57:07

Data Size: 3.55 GB

Bit Rate: 8.90 Mbps

Video Tracks: 1984 MPEG-2, 1280 × 720, 16:9, 59.94 fps, 24.00 Mbps, progressive

Audio Tracks: 1985 AC3 3/2, 48 kHz, 384 kbps

Stream Files: Video 008.m2t (3.55 GB)


----------



## rothe

Anybody else having ongoing problems receiving NJTV 50.1? Unlike last time, the PSIP *may be OK* because I can pick up SOMETHING, but for about a week now it's been too weak to record a complete program without dozens of dropouts.


----------



## rothe

Just an update: I checked this signal with my spectrum analyzer, and again, I have a good, strong signal with no evidence of noise or multipath. I suspect that the problem is upstream of the transmitter, and may again be PSIP-related.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21731996
> 
> 
> Anybody else having ongoing problems receiving NJTV 50.1? Unlike last time, the PSIP *may be OK* because I can pick up SOMETHING, but for about a week now it's been too weak to record a complete program without dozens of dropouts.



You did not get any feedback so I will chime in. I had a problem a few weeks back as reported but so far it seems to be back OK. Everything I have tried to record seems to be good. I do watch/record quite a few shows on NJ PBS and so far no recent issues out my way since the hiccup a few weeks back.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21735683
> 
> 
> You did not get any feedback so I will chime in. I had a problem a few weeks back as reported but so far it seems to be back OK. Everything I have tried to record seems to be good. I do watch/record quite a few shows on NJ PBS and so far no recent issues out my way since the hiccup a few weeks back.



Thanks for replying. I'm still having problems.


When the WNET/NJTV/WLIW engineer got back to me, he asked me what TV or tuner I was using. What brand and model of TV and/or DVR are you using? List them all, as I'm going to try to determine if there's a common tuner chipset that is having problems with their current configuration. I'm sure that's what he was after with his question.


----------



## LenL

Its tough to make any comparisons for you since I have 3 antennas at varying heights that get different reception issues. Plus I change feeds to TVs etc as the reception issues change.


Right now my CM4228 which is at the top of the chimney feeds with a 3 way splitter my main TV (Samsung LED) and 2 PALDVRs. I have no issues with 50.1 or 58.1 (except when my neighbors LED lights are on for which I have replacements that are supposed to fix the problem when they get installed ...probably in May or June)


My 2 TVs upstairs are fed by my home built antennas which are much lower on the Chimney. They are both Sharp LCDs. The older Sharp I bought before Digital OTA was available and so the tuner is not so good. I checked this AM and it has trouble with 50.1. While the other SHARP LCD can pick it up and they both have the same feed ( I combined the 2 antenna feeds before I send them up to the 2nd floor.


----------



## Keith

Has anyone scanned for an Active Analog Channels

in the NYC / Long Island Area recently ?


I saw nothing, have then gone to DTV Low Power ?


Just Curious,


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21736096
> 
> 
> Its tough to make any comparisons for you since I have 3 antennas at varying heights that get different reception issues. Plus I change feeds to TVs etc as the reception issues change.



LenL - the issue last time was not one of RF signal strength or quality, but had to do with the Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP). That's part of the encoded information that is being broadcast, and apparently there were some changes made that impacted some tuner circuits that are built-in to certain TVs and DVRs. In such a case, it wouldn't matter what antenna system was being used because the problem was with the encoded signal. It's analogous to you hearing somebody loud and clear, but if you don't speak the same language, the message isn't going to get through.


That's why I asked what *MAKE and MODEL* of TV and/or DVR you were using. That info can tell me what tuner circuit is used in the device, and we can figure out which tuner circuits are impacted and which are not.


Regardless, thanks for responding on the NJTV 50.1 reception question that I asked. I'm still having problems with it, and I'm about to go and re-aim a second, unused UHF antenna towards Trenton to see if I can pick up NJTV on WNJT 52.1 (real 43).


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/21737704
> 
> 
> Has anyone scanned for an Active Analog Channels
> 
> in the NYC / Long Island Area recently ?
> 
> 
> I saw nothing, have then gone to DTV Low Power ?
> 
> 
> Just Curious,



Last I heard -- months ago, there were two left:


Ch 6 WNYZ, operating as a radio station using a VHF TV signal, since the frequency is near the low end of the FM band. They were transmitting silent movies to fulfill the video requirement. I heard that their license was revoked in error. What happened after that, I do not recall. Did enjoy watching those films. I think I saw each one they had.


Ch46 WMBQ was, if I recall correctly, Cornerstone (a religious network). Again, no idea what the current status is. Have not tried tuning them in since.


----------



## Trip in VA

WCBS filed to modify the permit for channel 22 on Long Island. They want to put it on the WLNY tower now.

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...7&site=1&map=Y 


I find this interesting, because it makes me wonder if something reciprocal might happen with WLNY, and that might be why WLNY-CD was not included in the sale. It looks like a theoretical DTS could have a pretty decent coverage circle to use.

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=40.8%2C-73.38 


Much to think about.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21738898
> 
> 
> LenL - the issue last time was not one of RF signal strength or quality, but had to do with the Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP). That's part of the encoded information that is being broadcast, and apparently there were some changes made that impacted some tuner circuits that are built-in to certain TVs and DVRs. In such a case, it wouldn't matter what antenna system was being used because the problem was with the encoded signal. It's analogous to you hearing somebody loud and clear, but if you don't speak the same language, the message isn't going to get through.
> 
> 
> That's why I asked what *MAKE and MODEL* of TV and/or DVR you were using. That info can tell me what tuner circuit is used in the device, and we can figure out which tuner circuits are impacted and which are not.
> 
> 
> Regardless, thanks for responding on the NJTV 50.1 reception question that I asked. I'm still having problems with it, and I'm about to go and re-aim a second, unused UHF antenna towards Trenton to see if I can pick up NJTV on WNJT 52.1 (real 43).



Undertand and I think I answered your question but had to clarify about my one TV. I am not having any issues with 50.1. Reception has been good and the program guide has been fine. Later today I will be at my moms and I will try to scan channels and see if her RCA converter box gets hung up at 61% which I think maybe is related to your 50.1 issue or maybe it was the 5.1 issue. No one else responded to your note so it may be something isolated with your location.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21738898
> 
> 
> LenL - the issue last time was not one of RF signal strength or quality, but had to do with the Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP). That's part of the encoded information that is being broadcast, and apparently there were some changes made that impacted some tuner circuits that are built-in to certain TVs and DVRs. In such a case, it wouldn't matter what antenna system was being used because the problem was with the encoded signal. It's analogous to you hearing somebody loud and clear, but if you don't speak the same language, the message isn't going to get through.
> 
> 
> That's why I asked what *MAKE and MODEL* of TV and/or DVR you were using. That info can tell me what tuner circuit is used in the device, and we can figure out which tuner circuits are impacted and which are not.
> 
> 
> Regardless, thanks for responding on the NJTV 50.1 reception question that I asked. I'm still having problems with it, and I'm about to go and re-aim a second, unused UHF antenna towards Trenton to see if I can pick up NJTV on WNJT 52.1 (real 43).



Just came back from my moms. I did a channel scan with her RCA converter box and it froze again at 61%. Pulled the feed in and it resumed scanning. What was missing when it was over was FOX 5.1. 50.1 was there. There seems to be an issue with either the converter box or FOX 5.1. Or something else.


----------



## nyctveng

WLNY master control is moving to West 57 St In the next few weeks


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21744787
> 
> 
> WLNY master control is moving to West 57 St In the next few weeks



Does this mean that reception will improve for people in North Jersey or am I not understanding?


----------



## SnellKrell

Moving Master Control will have nothing to do with the quality of your reception!


Basically, it's the location where engineers and computers switch between programming, commercials, promotional messages, etc. The element that is chosen to be broadcast at Master Control is then sent to the station's transmitter - that's the place that determines your reception.


The big question for viewers in New Jersey is what's going to happen with reception with the sale of WLIG-LD, Morristown, NJ (Channel 17.1) - not part of CBS buying WLNY.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that reception will improve for people in North Jersey or am I not understanding?



I'm implying that changes are coming, nothing to do with reception.


----------



## LenL

We are going to get hit again with what is reported as a massive solar storm Thursday AM.


It is so a big a storm they say they can't predict how it may impact communications from satellites, power outages etc...


Stay tuned.


----------



## SubaruB4

Is 5-1 down? I can't 5-2 fine Is this channel on a duplex?


----------



## SnellKrell

Coming in loud and clear for me.


----------



## SubaruB4

Odd I get 5-2 with no problems but when trying to key in 5-1 it jumps right to 5-2 instead.


----------



## kickass69

Because the SD feeds never switched back to the original transmitters. Fox's SD feed is till being broadcast from WWOR 9-1 and 9-2 is still being transmitted from Fox aka 5-1.


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21745808
> 
> 
> The big question for viewers in New Jersey is what's going to happen with reception with the sale of WLIG-LD, Morristown, NJ (Channel 17.1) - not part of CBS buying WLNY.



Most can't get WLIG without a roof antenna, and don't even know it exists.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69* /forum/post/21756152
> 
> 
> Because the SD feeds never switched back to the original transmitters. Fox's SD feed is till being broadcast from WWOR 9-1 and 9-2 is still being transmitted from Fox aka 5-1.



Man this sucks I can only move my antenna but so much (a few inches)


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21755966
> 
> 
> Odd I get 5-2 with no problems but when trying to key in 5-1 it jumps right to 5-2 instead.



I am now getting Fox 5 on 44-1 and My 9 on 44-2 on my Craig converter, 44 being the RF for WNYW. Other box and HDTV in usual spot.


I also noticed that the signal level for WKOB has dropped considerably -- it used to hover around 70, now it is around 30. I get it on the Craig converter box, impossible to tune it in on the Radio Shack box. Have not tried tuning it on HDTV yet. Anyone else notice this drop?


----------



## LenL

I have a relatively new SAmsung 23" LED monitor that I inadvertantly did not shut off last nite. How I found out was I turned to 11.1 at 10 PM expecting to see the news when my neighbor's LED patio lights went out. Only after their lights went out my TV had lots on interference on the screen. No sound and lots on noise on the picture. Could not view it. So I checked and sure enough when I turned the monitor off the reception came in perfectly.


The monitor is next to the wall where the antenna is.....about 5 feet away outside!


Just thought I would share this....


----------



## Trip in VA

WEBR-CD becomes the latest station to be sold to a spectrum speculator. Michael Dell's OTA Broadcasting, which owns KTLN San Francisco, KFFV Seattle, and KVOS Bellingham (in the Seattle DMA) has purchased WEBR-CD for $6.6 million.


- Trip


----------



## RichNorthNJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21773351
> 
> 
> I have a relatively new SAmsung 23" LED monitor that I inadvertantly did not shut off last nite. How I found out was I turned to 11.1 at 10 PM expecting to see the news when my neighbor's LED patio lights went out. Only after their lights went out my TV had lots on interference on the screen. No sound and lots on noise on the picture. Could not view it. So I checked and sure enough when I turned the monitor off the reception came in perfectly.
> 
> 
> The monitor is next to the wall where the antenna is.....about 5 feet away outside!
> 
> 
> Just thought I would share this....



I have an old TUBE CRT pc monitor. Get this - if my monitor or my westell dsl modem or my Desktop PC or my VCR!!! is on, I can NOT pick up 42.3 wkob.







lol

This station from NYC has got to have 1 hell of a weak signal







- not that it matters much - the program selection is pretty lousy on that channel - for some reason this station thinks people in northeast suburbs like westerns







- I DON'T. Wonder why all stations REFUSE to air Mannix, room 222, the Rookies, etc., in this area anyway.

The ONLY way I can pick up the above lousy channel is with Big Lots rabbit ears (with adjustable signal strength) WITH ADDITIONAL rabbit ear extensions attached DOUBLING their length!! I can NOT pick up that channel

with even a motorized roof antanna.









Thank goodness the above devices don't interfere with Antenna TV channel's & THIS network's signals, else I wood go bonzo!!









NONE of this monkey business would occur with analog. I could put up with ghosts & even a fuzzy picture - at least I could watch the channel!! Like in the 1950's & 60's.







& never experience the "joy" of macroblocking intereference, freezing of picture & even non synchronization of voice & lips sometimes !! .


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21775463
> 
> 
> WEBR-CD becomes the latest station to be sold to a spectrum speculator. Michael Dell's OTA Broadcasting, which owns KTLN San Francisco, KFFV Seattle, and KVOS Bellingham (in the Seattle DMA) has purchased WEBR-CD for $6.6 million.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thank you for reporting this.


This acquisition brings up a couple discussion points. First, WEBR-CD has an outstanding CP to build out a channel 49 facility, and this is stipulated in the sales contract. They filed for displacement a while back due to interference from channel 17 in Philadelphia, although now it is fairly obvious that the upward move to channel 49 was only to bolster an eventual sales price. Once channel 17 is vacated, presuming this happens, does that open channel 17 up to displacement from other stations or for a new station to be constructed on channel 17? I am aware there are issues with channel 17 operating close to the New York Metropolitan Advisory Committee (NYMAC) public safety frequencies on channel 16, but seeing as a mutual interference agreement was reached when WEBR built out its digital facility, could that be extended to a new facility?


The other discussion topic regards their intent for the station. I realize channel 49 is a prime target for spectrum speculation, but is it known for a fact that this is the lone purpose for their acquisition? I've checked the other holdings you cited they own, and all of them offer programming of various types. None of them appear to be turning the lights on once a year to keep the fcc placated.


----------



## Trip in VA

They just closed on KVOS and then fired almost all of the staff. All the stations are either on skeleton staff or leasing subchannels. I feel safe calling them a spectrum speculator.


- Trip


----------



## NYC

TV 10/55's last "News at 11" will be on March 29. It will be replaced with Entertainment Tonight, and the station will be without any newscasts for about 10 weeks until the schedule is changed. It is reported that Richard Rose will be the only guaranteed holdover from the station's news team.


----------



## SubaruB4

Question is it just me or do a lot of commercials on WABC have a lot of deinterlacing going on that's showing?


----------



## NervousCat

This article isn't about OTA, but still interesting enough to share.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/helloworld/27649/ 


In case the article isn't at the top of the blog, scroll down for the title "Aereo Has Landed (in New York): First Impressions".


----------



## icemannyr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4* /forum/post/21781203
> 
> 
> Question is it just me or do a lot of commercials on WABC have a lot of deinterlacing going on that's showing?



I've not noticed it on WABC, the problem still exists on commercials on FOX5.

All taped SD programming including reports in the newscast and HD & SD commercials on WWOR-DT have interlacing lines on them.

Anyone have a contact e-mail address for WWOR?


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21784657
> 
> 
> I've not noticed it on WABC, the problem still exists on commercials on FOX5.
> 
> All taped SD programming including reports in the newscast and HD & SD commercials on WWOR-DT have interlacing lines on them.
> 
> Anyone have a contact e-mail address for WWOR?




I was just curious because I was watching that target ad with the people jumping around and that's when I noticed it, then the Stanly Steamer commercial as well.


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr* /forum/post/21784657
> 
> 
> I've not noticed it on WABC, the problem still exists on commercials on FOX5.
> 
> All taped SD programming including reports in the newscast and HD & SD commercials on WWOR-DT have interlacing lines on them.
> 
> Anyone have a contact e-mail address for WWOR?



You can send a message via their website, here's a link:
http://www.my9tv.com/subindex/only_on_my9/contact_us


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WKOB-LD LAUNCHES TWO MORE SUBCHANNELS*


On Friday, March 16, 2012, WKOB-LD New York (Channel 2, Virtual Channel 42) has launched two new subchannels, bringing their total to six unique streams. This marks the first time the station, owned by Nave Communications, has offered a sixth subchannel.


At present, newcomers channel 42-5 and 42-6 are broadcasting an EBR Test Pattern without text and/or audio.


In addition, two existing PSIP TVCT channel names were modified: DayStar is now *Daystar*, and HOT TV is now *HOT*. The channel lineup order remains unchanged.

_Technical Specs_


The WKOB-LD New York .5 and .6 subchannels are SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio. Language is English. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *WKOB-LD* on both virtual channel 42-5 and 42-6. _The following specs apply to all subchannels_: Time is -1 hour. Program guide information is non-specific. The current program airing is "TBA" which is described as "No Description" It is a 3 hour program which airs in looping blocks beginning at 1AM.


See other WKOB-LD related topics:

HOT TV Network returns to WKOB-LD 42.3 
TELOS ALTERNATIVE HEALTH NETWORK NOW AVAILABLE IN NEW YORK CITY 
MUNDO HISPANO TV (MHTV) RETURNS TO NYC TV AIRWAVES 
RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21240801
> 
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...Splitters&sku=
> 
> 
> Just hook up your antenna to the "Line" side, hook up your pre-amp to the High side, and put a terminator on the low side. This will give you a cheap and very effective "FM trap" that will drop off all FM and RF interference below channel 7.
> 
> 
> If the LED noise is overloading the entire VHF spectrum and is originating below channel 7, then this will solve your problem.



Here is an update:


My neighbor installed the replacement Malibu LED walkway lights and I put the TV on high VHF channels and there was NO picture. I lost reception.


I went to Radio Shack and bought and installed per specs the RF Interference they sell and it did nothing. No impact.


I have now ordered this device from Solid Signal and I will install it and see if it helps. Keeping my fingers crossed as this is my last option.


I will also write to Malibu Lighting again and give them an update on their replacement lights still having RF issues.


Question: What can I use as a terminator on the low side? Home built? Or do I need to buy something?


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Question: What can I use as a terminator on the low side?


 http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...9-%28SPTERM%29 


Keep in mind that the HLSJ will only be effective you have have low frequency signals causing harmonic inter-modulation. If the lights are actually emitting in the high-VHF band, then no filtering of the receiving equipment will help.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21795471
> 
> 
> Here is an update:
> 
> 
> My neighbor installed the replacement Malibu LED walkway lights and I put the TV on high VHF channels and there was NO picture. I lost reception.



Sorry to hear you are still experiencing this problem. It was expected, however, when you reported the replacement bulbs were exactly the same as the originals.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21795471
> 
> 
> I will also write to Malibu Lighting again and give them an update on their replacement lights still having RF issues.
> 
> 
> Question: What can I use as a terminator on the low side? Home built? Or do I need to buy something?



In all fairness, Len, I don't think you should have to do anything else, except to make the fcc aware of this issue. In my view, those lights are impeding a federally licensed communication source upon which you rely for not only general entertainment, but for emergency notifications with respect to breaking news, traffic, and extreme weather. It is not your neighbors fault the lights were made so crappy, but it is this government's job, specifically the fcc, to disallow such faulty devices from being sold in the U.S. The fcc was quick enough to warn users of wireless microphones which operated above 700 MHz to cease and desist all further use so they wouldn't interfere with their cell phone buddies new frequencies. Well, these lights are presenting unwarranted interference to multiple licensed users and the fcc should be sending Malibu lighting a friendly notice advising of such.


The complaint will also shine another light (pun intended) on why the VHF-Hi band is not as reliable for broadcast TV operations as the lawyers at the fcc would like to make all interested parties believe.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/21795975
> 
> 
> 
> In all fairness, Len, I don't think you should have to do anything else, except to make the fcc aware of this issue.



Agree.


----------



## DTVintermods

I would also alert Charlie Rhodes who's writing RF column for TV Technology.


----------



## LenL

Thanks guys for all the helpful info and suggestions. I just emailed Charlie Rhodes. I also emailed Malibu Lighting again. I will also put something together to the FCC this week.


Giacomo.....I wish the FCC would help but I think even if I contact them I can not expect any immediate relief. It is all in my court to find a solution if I can in the short term.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21798919
> 
> 
> Thanks guys for all the helpful info and suggestions. I just emailed Charlie Rhodes. I also emailed Malibu Lighting again. I will also put something together to the FCC this week.
> 
> 
> Giacomo.....I wish the FCC would help but I think even if I contact them I can not expect any immediate relief. It is all in my court to find a solution if I can in the short term.



Are there other factories that make these light bulbs? Can you try a different brand or maybe buy your neighbors some CFL light bulbs as replacements?


----------



## Trip in VA

Yeah, don't expect too much from the FCC. Viewers who complain get told that they are unimportant, and only licensed broadcasters can make interference complaints.


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21798919
> 
> 
> Thanks guys for all the helpful info and suggestions. I just emailed Charlie Rhodes. I also emailed Malibu Lighting again. I will also put something together to the FCC this week.
> 
> 
> Giacomo.....I wish the FCC would help but I think even if I contact them I can not expect any immediate relief. It is all in my court to find a solution if I can in the short term.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21799938
> 
> 
> Yeah, don't expect too much from the FCC. Viewers who complain get told that they are unimportant, and only licensed broadcasters can make interference complaints.
> 
> 
> - Trip



You're welcome, Len. I can empathize with your predicament, and I understand how frustrating this must be for you.


I enjoy receiving OTA Television and TV/Radio DXing when the weather patterns are right. I am frustrated by my lower elevation which cheats me out of many low-power and even some full-power TV stations I'm sure I could get if only I were on higher ground.


Just to be clear: I don't expect the fcc to send out paratroopers to clear away these pathway lights. But any complaint is written documentation and another blow to the efforts of those pretend engineer attorneys who would like to shove UHF TV stations into the VHF band, despite the recent legislation which prohibits them from doing so.


Trip brings up a valid point. Perhaps the next step should be to e-mail a letter to the engineers at WABC-TV, WPIX, and WNET. And any other VHF station whose signal is interrupted by these lights. Mention the brand and model number of the LED lights in your communication. I will admit I didn't think of that, and you just might realize better results.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21797545
> 
> 
> I would also alert Charlie Rhodes who's writing RF column for TV Technology.



Just FYI: Charlie has already responded to my note to him and asked for more info which I supplied.


Malibu Lighting has not yet responded to my note. I'm not sure they will want to keep in touch at this point.


Solid Signal has shipped the VHF hi/Lo splitter. I called them MOnday to see if I could add a terminator to my order before it shipped. The salesman said it was too late and that he thought the device would have a terminator with it.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21799633
> 
> 
> Are there other factories that make these light bulbs? Can you try a different brand or maybe buy your neighbors some CFL light bulbs as replacements?



It is actually not just a bulb that can be pulled out and replaced. It is all wired together with what would appear to be a mini transformer.


Not sure buying replacements at about $30 or more a pop without knowing if they too have an issue would be financially justified.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21801872
> 
> 
> Just FYI: Charlie has already responded to my note to him and asked for more info which I supplied.



I would wait for his response before spending too many $$. He's got a good lab and an audience. If he takes it on, the FCC will take notice to.

If you have a spectrum analyzer, scan the FM and Hi VHF bands (relative power). That will help him focus on whether the noise is 2nd order and/or harmonic FM.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/21802187
> 
> 
> I would wait for his response before spending too many $$. He's got a good lab and an audience. If he takes it on, the FCC will take notice to.
> 
> If you have a spectrum analyzer, scan the FM and Hi VHF bands (relative power). That will help him focus on whether the noise is 2nd order and/or harmonic FM.



He got back to me and he suspects the transformer. I am not going to argue with an expert. However the transformer in question is not new and was the same one used with non LED lights which I think were 4 watt bulbs. I think the new LEDS are 1 watt. They are not just bulbs though. They are a unit which I think include the bulb and a transformer or some electical gizmo with them. Here is just an excerpt of what he sent me:


LED lamps require low voltage Direct Current. As you wrote, the transformer steps down the 120 volt AC power to a very low AC voltage. Inside the transformer case there are Silicon Diodes that rectify this low AC power converting it to DC power. These diodes are generating electrical noise which is jamming your DTV receiver.


My guess is that the manufacturer, probably in far off Asia, did not provide capacitors across each diode to prevent those diodes from generating electrical noise.


This is standard practice in consumer electronics because it eliminates such RF noise, but these capacitors, cost money and so they may not be left out for that reason.


THE PROBLEM IS NOT WITH THE led LIGHTS, BUT WITH THIS TRANSFORMER.


----------



## LenL

I remembered I did do an FM radio test a number of months back and it sort of proved the transformer was fine and it was the lights where the FM radio picked up RF interference.


I just sent this info on to the expert.


Also Malibu sort of acknowledged there was a problem with RF interference when they sent me NEW lights and insisted these lights had changes to the components even if the boxes/packaging were exactly the same.


So I'm not sure the expert has it right.


----------



## LenL

Just received a quick response from Malibu Lighting. Seeing as I only sent the note yesterday and I was my ever pesimistic self.... getting a response so soon, even getting a response, and what the response said was rather surpising in a very good way. The brief message I received follows:


"Len,




I am sorry to hear that the issue is still ongoing. I have notified my engineer and he has contacted our factory to have these shipped to him. He will personally install the low noise filters on them and send them directly to you. "


I don't know how long this will take but it seems that something is in the works here.


----------



## DTVintermods

Thanks for perervering. This LED issue is a new man-made noise source that affects DTV--not just yours. We need to identify it, control it and taking it into account our link budget because LED are expected to be in widespread use in homes in the future


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21802518
> 
> 
> He got back to me and he suspects the transformer. I am not going to argue with an expert. However the transformer in question is not new and was the same one used with non LED lights which I think were 4 watt bulbs. I think the new LEDS are 1 watt. They are not just bulbs though. They are a unit which I think include the bulb and a transformer or some electical gizmo with them. Here is just an excerpt of what he sent me:
> 
> 
> LED lamps require low voltage Direct Current. As you wrote, the transformer steps down the 120 volt AC power to a very low AC voltage. Inside the transformer case there are Silicon Diodes that rectify this low AC power converting it to DC power. These diodes are generating electrical noise which is jamming your DTV receiver.
> 
> 
> My guess is that the manufacturer, probably in far off Asia, did not provide capacitors across each diode to prevent those diodes from generating electrical noise.
> 
> 
> This is “standard practice” in consumer electronics because it eliminates such RF noise, but these capacitors, cost money and so they may not be left out for that reason.
> 
> 
> THE PROBLEM IS NOT WITH THE led LIGHTS, BUT WITH THIS “ TRANSFORMER”.



Just curious. How many lights does your neighbor have? I recently found a website that said a 5 watt bulb or device that is on 24/7 ( we know your neighbors is not on 24/7) uses about $5 a year. If electric company charges $.10 per kilowatt/hour. So lets say he has 6 light bulbs. He has them on 8 hours a day. Lets even say 12 hours a day. 6 bulbs times 3 watts each savings. That is 18 watts savings. Just a guess, but he is savings anywhere from $5 to $9 per year. Pay your neighbor $10 a year and have him switch back to the old bulbs. Seems A MUCH work for $.41 to $.75 a month savings.

Plus $10 per year for free TV is well worth it.


I would say that is your fastest way out of this problem. Unless Malibu fixes the issue.


I did try some LEDs for my bathroom vanity light. It turned out to be a BLUE/GREEN ugly light that was emitted. I returned them.

It is a shame.


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21805663
> 
> 
> I did try some LEDs for my bathroom vanity light. It turned out to be a BLUE/GREEN ugly light that was emitted. I returned them.
> 
> It is a shame.



There are a number of LED light bulbs on the market that produce decent color temperature and CRI, but they'll set you back $25 and up for 800 lumens (60-watt incandescent equivalent). Have a look at the Philips BC12A19 and the Ecosmart (Lighting Science) ECS 19 V2 WW, both at Home Depot. They generate quite a bit of RF noise (easy to hear on an AM radio, especially the Ecosmart), but so far haven't affected my OTA reception; but then my antennas are in the attic above any of the bulbs.


----------



## LenL

Keyboard,


My neighbor has 5 of them and they cost around $30-35 each. Yes each. These are not just bulbs that you can pop in and out like the regular walkway lights have. It's an integrated unit. My neighbor has the lights on at a bare minimum right now due to the problem it's causing me. I'm sure they would like to have them on much longer than they currently do.


----------



## rothe

LenL -


75 ohm Terminators:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103064 

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_251861-12704...ductId=3178853


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe* /forum/post/21806854
> 
> 
> LenL -
> 
> 
> 75 ohm Terminators:
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103064
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_251861-12704...ductId=3178853



I had already ordered 4 from Solid Signal when I read your post.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21799938
> 
> 
> Yeah, don't expect too much from the FCC. Viewers who complain get told that they are unimportant, and only licensed broadcasters can make interference complaints.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Never say never... I've seen the FCC act when ham radio operators make complaints against other entities, for example electric utilities. Often the utilities get enforcement letters and some are even fined for interference they cause.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70* /forum/post/21806625
> 
> 
> There are a number of LED light bulbs on the market that produce decent color temperature and CRI, but they'll set you back $25 and up for 800 lumens (60-watt incandescent equivalent). Have a look at the Philips BC12A19 and the Ecosmart (Lighting Science) ECS 19 V2 WW, both at Home Depot. They generate quite a bit of RF noise (easy to hear on an AM radio, especially the Ecosmart), but so far haven't affected my OTA reception; but then my antennas are in the attic above any of the bulbs.



In NJ you can get LED bulbs (philips) for as low as $10. 60w equiv will run you $15. This is at the home improvement stores (the orange one).


I have three of them, one on the back deck and two out on the front porch. I use mostly CFL in the house but I use LEDs outside where I can switch them on to almost full brightness from cold.


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/21812863
> 
> 
> In NJ you can get LED bulbs (philips) for as low as $10. 60w equiv will run you $15. This is at the home improvement stores (the orange one).
> 
> 
> I have three of them, one on the back deck and two out on the front porch. I use mostly CFL in the house but I use LEDs outside where I can switch them on to almost full brightness from cold.



True, but they are older models; the ones with the nice color temperature are still in the $25 category - the older ones are generally way too blue and have a bad CRI (i.e. their phosphors are not broad spectrum).


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/21812855
> 
> 
> Never say never... I've seen the FCC act when ham radio operators make complaints against other entities, for example electric utilities. Often the utilities get enforcement letters and some are even fined for interference they cause.



Ham radio operators are licensed.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Ham radio operators are licensed.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Nope that's not the reason.


They also deal with complaints of interference by illegal 11m sets or simply illegal sales such as truck stops selling them.


If the complaint is serious enough or enough people complain they will act.


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> True, but they are older models; the ones with the nice color temperature are still in the $25 category - the older ones are generally way too blue and have a bad CRI (i.e. their phosphors are not broad spectrum).



No these are the newer yellow philips ambientLED freakish looking remote phosphor ones (409904 a19 type). The light they give off looks exactly like an incandescent (5200k). This price is only in NJ though. I believe the state gives a clean energy rebate. Other states like MA may have them cheap.


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/21815344
> 
> 
> No these are the newer yellow philips ambientLED freakish looking remote phosphor ones (409904 a19 type). The light they give off looks exactly like an incandescent (5200k). This price is only in NJ though. I believe the state gives a clean energy rebate. Other states like MA may have them cheap.



Wow, I'll have to smuggle some light bulbs across the NJ-PA border










N.B.: The Philips BC12A19 is 409906, so the 409904 must be a special NJ-only edition. And that color temp is 2700K (they're very nice bulbs.)


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe that 2700K is the color of most incandescent bulbs we are used to.


Getting back to OTA reception, I've noticed that the last few nights (except last night)

that Channel 44 on my two sets goes dark at approximately 11 p.m. Could it be that the station is working on its new facility on the ESB Antenna Mast?


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21816310
> 
> 
> I believe that 2700K is the color of most incandescent bulbs we are used to.



YOu're correct. 5200k is daylight (anyway the point was these bulbs are close to incandescents).


----------



## 2VW

The FCC will respond if all else fails. Right now it looks as if the manufacturer of the lights is doing their best.


Looking at the FCC web page complaints from licensed amateurs appear to hold a little more credibility than the average Joe. This makes sense. Radio geeks should know a few things.

http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/Amateur...s/Welcome.html


----------



## raj2001

Yeah, of course hams would have some credibility (despite some of the uhhh more "hamsexy" folks within the ranks).


I think it was either Riley or Laura Smith who said that the Amateur service provides the FCC a good amount of value or something of the sort so they are more than happy to help us.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/21816763
> 
> 
> The FCC will respond if all else fails. Right now it looks as if the manufacturer of the lights is doing their best.




Agreed. My point was that I don't think the FCC will just blow off the average Joe because they don't have a license...


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raj2001* /forum/post/21816831
> 
> 
> Agreed. My point was that I don't think the FCC will just blow off the average Joe because they don't have a license...



I've actually complained to the FCC before. "Blown off" is a very good description. I couldn't tell where my interference was coming from, but it was obliterating half the TV band. The FCC told me, in no uncertain terms, that I had to get the station being interfered with to complain, and that complaints from viewers would not be taken.


- Trip


----------



## raj2001




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/21819323
> 
> 
> I've actually complained to the FCC before. "Blown off" is a very good description. I couldn't tell where my interference was coming from, but it was obliterating half the TV band. The FCC told me, in no uncertain terms, that I had to get the station being interfered with to complain, and that complaints from viewers would not be taken.
> 
> 
> - Trip



What you described seems rather unusual. I know of people who were on the receiving end of letters from the FCC regarding TV interference complaints. The complainer wasn't licensed.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WMBQ-CD New York is On The Air*


On March 28, 2012, WMBQ-CD New York, UHF Channel 46, has began actual transmissions for the first time under its new ownership, Prime Time Partners LLC.


Presently, the primary channel 46-1 known as *WMBQ 1* is carrying an Hispanic station which has been airing infomercials in English and Spanish. Two PSAs and Station ID airs at the top of each half hour.


As of the time of this posting, this editor is uncertain whether this is an Hispanic TV network or independent programming. It can be confirmed that this is not Azteca America or Estrella TV.


Subchannels 46-2, 46-3, and 46-4 are each airing an EBR Test Pattern without Audio. A horizontal solid black bar runs through the middle of the screen. White dot-matrix style text sits inside the bar which reads "WMBQ-CD NEW YORK"


WMBQ-CD first came on the air for about a day in either November or December 2011 in a testing phase. During that incarnation, only one stream was transmitted over Channel 46-1. It was an SMPTE Test Pattern without audio. A thicker horizontal solid black bar ran through the middle of the screen. White dot-matrix style text sat inside that bar which read "WMBQ-CD NEW YORK". The aspect ratio was dynamic yet the program was shown in Stretch-o-Vision (Squeeze would return the image to a conventional 3:4 aspect ratio). No channel name information was available.


This editor experienced considerable reception difficulties during this initial testing phase. Conversely, reception is presently significantly better, albeit not without occasional dropouts.

_Technical Specs_:


WMBQ-CD New York presently transmits four subchannels. Each of them are SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio. Language is English. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *WMBQ #* (The # corresponds to each subchannel; eg. "WMBQ 1"). Time is accurate. Program guide information is non-specific.


See other WMBQ-CD related topics:

WMBQ-CA New York Sold for $5,250,000


----------



## AloEuro

Thank you Giacomo for the alert, the 46-1 shows so far only Infomercials - sell, sale, you buy, nothing else but sell, the Signal level on scale of 3 units strength -Weak-Normal-Good shows better than Normal, 704x480i 30 Hz DolbyStereo.

The other 3 streams, 46-2,3,4 as Giacomo has said, shows only color bars.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34* /forum/post/21745777
> 
> 
> Does this mean that reception will improve for people in North Jersey or am I not understanding?



For what it's worth, WLNY-CD (45-1) is now dead....







My research shows that the repeaters were NOT part of the sale to CBS.


I can no longer receive WLNY programming in extreme Western Nassau County.



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, no signal on 45.1 - recently, it had already changed its call sign

to WMUN-CD while it was still simulcasting WLNY-DT.


Wonder what the new owners plan to do with this very valuable real estate.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/21848827
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, WLNY-CD (45-1) is now dead....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My research shows that the repeaters were NOT part of the sale to CBS.
> 
> 
> I can no longer receive WLNY programming in extreme Western Nassau County.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Why would they take off 45.1?


I thought they announced NO changes except more news


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21849318
> 
> 
> Why would they take off 45.1?
> 
> 
> I thought they announced NO changes except more news



CBS doesn't need 45-1 (they have WCBS-DT), so they didn't buy it. But since they no longer own it, they aren't repeating WLNY-DT on it anymore..


Maybe they eventually bring WLNY to a WCBS-DT sub-channel down the road... but for the meantime, 45-1 is dark.



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Smashbro29

So I recently got an indoor/outdoor antenna (the one on sale at 1saleaday.com winegard... Something) and it seems very moody. First off, there's seemingly no way to get 2 or 4. Sometimes 5-13 work flawlessly and sometimes their a little choppy and I reposition it which might work for one channel but then screws up some other channel/s.


Its RIGHT by the window on the second floor is it really worth the effort to mount it outside?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/21849538
> 
> 
> CBS doesn't need 45-1 (they have WCBS-DT), so they didn't buy it. But since they no longer own it, they aren't repeating WLNY-DT on it anymore..
> 
> 
> Maybe they eventually bring WLNY to a WCBS-DT sub-channel down the road... but for the meantime, 45-1 is dark.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



So why buy WLNY if they planed to take down 45.1 Some people liked that channel.


Man I hate mergers for this reason


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> So why buy WLNY if they planed to take down 45.1 Some people liked that channel.
> 
> 
> Man I hate mergers for this reason



CBS bought 55 to reach all the cable and satellite homes.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21850272
> 
> 
> CBS bought 55 to reach all the cable and satellite homes.



Speaking of. 10/55 is STILL on the AIR on Cable.


Why would they hurt OTA people?


Did they sell 45.1? Or just give it up?


----------



## SnellKrell

CBS bought only WLNY, Channel 10/55 - Digital Channel 47.1 out of Riverhead, NY.


The other stations that carried the programming - Morristown, NJ; Mineola, NY and Stamford, CT were sold separately and will no longer have any connection with WLNY.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of. 10/55 is STILL on the AIR on Cable.
> 
> 
> Why would they hurt OTA people?
> 
> 
> Did they sell 45.1? Or just give it up?



Why wouldn't it be on cable? Most or all have a direct fiber feed from either WLNY facility in LI or CBS on West 57 St. The OTA transmitter is very powerful and covers most of LI, eastern Queens, southern CT. Sure they will lose some OTA viewers but a such a small percentage that it probably wasn't worth buying or leasing the translators.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey AloEuro,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/21847394
> 
> 
> Thank you Giacomo for the alert, the 46-1 shows so far only Infomercials - sell, sale, you buy, nothing else but sell, the Signal level on scale of 3 units strength -Weak-Normal-Good shows better than Normal, 704x480i 30 Hz DolbyStereo. The other 3 streams, 46-2,3,4 as Giacomo has said, shows only color bars.



You're welcome! But 46-1 isn't entirely infomercials. Check it out at 6:30AM each morning. The 6:30AM-7:30AM hour is quite unique and a partial throwback to WMBQ's ownership under Craig L. Fox


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21849916
> 
> 
> So why buy WLNY if they planed to take down 45.1 Some people liked that channel.
> 
> 
> Man I hate mergers for this reason



WLNY is still broadcasting, but only on their original transmitter out east. The repeaters were not sold, so they won't be carrying WLNY programming anymore. You can only receive it OTA on 55.1 (RF 47) or via cable / satellite.


As I posted earlier, *MAYBE* WLNY programming gets put on WCBS-DT3 or something.....


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## SnellKrell

The three repeaters were sold, but not to CBS, they were sold to

Local Media TV Holding.


Highly doubtful WLNY programming will show up on a WCBS subchannel -

2.2 is enough!!!!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21852905
> 
> 
> The three repeaters were sold, but not to CBS, they were sold to
> 
> Local Media TV Holding.
> 
> 
> Highly doubtful WLNY programming will show up on a WCBS subchannel -
> 
> 2.2 is enough!!!!



Some people watched 45.1 what a shame this is. They could of used 45.1 for TVGOS lol


----------



## LenL

Just wanted to provide an update.


1. I tried using the Radio Shack RF Interference filter Cat# 150025. It did not help at all. it did not block or even reduce the interference.


2. Another suggestion was to try a VHF HI/Lo band separator. I tried the Blonder Tongue VHF Hi/Lo band separator ZHL5J. It too failed to suppress the RF interference. The idea was it might be on the low VHF and by seperating it out I could get a good picture on the high VHF band.


So it looks like I have run out of options for the time being until I get 5 newly modified LED patio/walkway lights. On that note I have recently received another email from Malibu Lighting actually apologizing for the delay and explaining that a shipment of lights to their engineer who will be fixing the problem was delayed.


Over the past 6 months I have been in touch with 3 companies about various OTA issues. They are CBS, ROVI, and Malibu Lighting. The only one that has never gotten back in touch with me after 2 emails was CBS. For that I would give them an F in customer service.


----------



## NYC

WLNY has a new logo with the WLNY call letters in a white sphere. The numbers 10 and 55 are just to the right, one above the other with a line in between. They have also announced a 9pm newscast that will begin a few months as well as a 7am program that will be "unique" to this area. Newscasts will originate in NYC and will include segmentss with Richard Rose from Long Island.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21858472
> 
> 
> WLNY has a new logo with the WLNY call letters in a white sphere. The numbers 10 and 55 are just to the right, one above the other with a line in between. They have also announced a 9pm newscast that will begin a few months as well as a 7am program that will be "unique" to this area. Newscasts will originate in NYC and will include segmentss with Richard Rose from Long Island.


 http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...NY_Top_Job.php 

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...sEnabled=false 

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowln...wscasts_b57108


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21858472
> 
> 
> WLNY has a new logo with the WLNY call letters in a white sphere. The numbers 10 and 55 are just to the right, one above the other with a line in between. They have also announced a 9pm newscast that will begin a few months as well as a 7am program that will be "unique" to this area. Newscasts will originate in NYC and will include segmentss with Richard Rose from Long Island.



How does this help OTA. They shut down a captive audience. Now with Cable channel 10/55 just blends in. I do not need them for news. That is what cnn is for and a bunch of other channels.


What a shame this is. Are we sure 45.1 is down for good?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21858553
> 
> 
> How does this help OTA. They shut down a captive audience. Now with Cable channel 10/55 just blends in. I do not need them for news. That is what cnn is for and a bunch of other channels.
> 
> 
> What a shame this is. Are we sure 45.1 is down for good?



Did you forget that their primary transmitter on LI still reaches a lot of households even if YOU can't pick it up. It helps LI OTA households that don't subscribe to cable and can't get News12 or CNN. Sorry changes that stations make don't revolve around just your needs.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21858659
> 
> 
> Did you forget that their primary transmitter on LI still reaches a lot of households even if YOU can't pick it up. It helps LI OTA households that don't subscribe to cable and can't get News12 or CNN. Sorry changes that stations make don't revolve around just your needs.



The existing transmitter is north of Riverhead. It barely makes it into Nassau County. 45.1 was my only vehicle for receiving this programming.


Yeah, it reaches a lot of households. But it lost more than half of the households it reached before the sale.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21858659
> 
> 
> Did you forget that their primary transmitter on LI still reaches a lot of households even if YOU can't pick it up. It helps LI OTA households that don't subscribe to cable and can't get News12 or CNN. Sorry changes that stations make don't revolve around just your needs.



Not my needs. The elderly needs. Also how much could a repeater really cost?


CBS promised no changes except more news. This is a HUGE change


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21858659
> 
> 
> Did you forget that their primary transmitter on LI still reaches a lot of households even if YOU can't pick it up. It helps LI OTA households that don't subscribe to cable and can't get News12 or CNN. Sorry changes that stations make don't revolve around just your needs.



If CBS2 is going to promote tuning in to TV 10-55, would it not make sense for it to be available in the same areas as WCBS? WLNY's signal does not reach New York City and it is not even on some cable systems to the north and west. There was some speculation here about new technology to extend the coverage area -- any new details there?


By the way, WLNY will carry high school sports on Saturday afternoons this month. They also have an animated promo that explains the WLNY call letters -- We Love New York! And New Jersey and Connecticut too.


Here's the newest addition to the news department: http://libn.com/files/2012/04/WLNY_van.jpg


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> If CBS2 is going to promote tuning in to TV 10-55, would it not make sense for it to be available in the same areas as WCBS? WLNY's signal does not reach New York City and it is not even on some cable systems to the north and west. There was some speculation here about new technology to extend the coverage area -- any new details there?
> 
> 
> By the way, WLNY will carry high school sports on Saturday afternoons this month. They also have an animated promo that explains the WLNY call letters -- We Love New York! And New Jersey and Connecticut too.
> 
> 
> Here's the newest addition to the news department: http://libn.com/files/2012/04/WLNY_van.jpg



My guess and speculation is that WLNY is in "soft launch" mode right now and will do more promoting as they update the on air look and programming. Theres existing technology to extend coverage area and it's not new. Many of the cable systems in the NYC area have regional headends and share some local feeds with other non competing cable companies. Since WLNY's master control is now on West 57th, any provider with an existing fiber feed of WCBS can add WLNY with some additional equipment.When deals with carriage of WCBS on a cable system are set to expire, you can bet CBS will look to gain carriage of WLNY in areas it's not already carried.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21861023
> 
> 
> My guess and speculation is that WLNY is in "soft launch" mode right now and will do more promoting as they update the on air look and programming. Theres existing technology to extend coverage area and it's not new. Many of the cable systems in the NYC area have regional headends and share some local feeds with other non competing cable companies. Since WLNY's master control is now on West 57th, any provider with an existing fiber feed of WCBS can add WLNY with some additional equipment.When deals with carriage of WCBS on a cable system are set to expire, you can bet CBS will look to gain carriage of WLNY in areas it's not already carried.



So how was WLNY was in NYC? Why would CBS change/cancel, if they will try to gain carriage? They had NYC.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/21858780
> 
> 
> The existing transmitter is north of Riverhead. It barely makes it into Nassau County. 45.1 was my only vehicle for receiving this programming.
> 
> 
> Yeah, it reaches a lot of households. But it lost more than half of the households it reached before the sale.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Much more then half. NYC is much denser in population then LI.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21863137
> 
> 
> Much more then half. NYC is much denser in population then LI.



Densely populated areas with high rises especially Manhattan have historically had a higher penetration of cable/satellite customers than outer boros and suburbs therefore shutting off a LP translator may be a lost of a few OTA viewers but has little to no impact on reported ratings. How many people here have actually ever been a Nielson HH? The LP signal may have covered many homes but how many actually watched?


The main transmittern on LI is very powerful as claimed in this article:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/...-signal/202471


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21864395
> 
> 
> Densely populated areas with high rises especially Manhattan have historically had a higher penetration of cable/satellite customers than outer boros and suburbs therefore shutting off a LP translator may be a lost of a few OTA viewers but has little to no impact on reported ratings. How many people here have actually ever been a Nielson HH? The LP signal may have covered many homes but how many actually watched?
> 
> 
> The main transmittern on LI is very powerful as claimed in this article:
> 
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/...-signal/202471



The point and question is WHY did they get rid of a great repeater?


----------



## 412News

because cbs didnt buy it they just bought only wlny. but im 65% sure that cbs will put a transmitter in manhattan to cover the rest of the tri-state.

KCAL 9 in LA is sister station to KCBS 2 in LA and the WLNY new logo looks just like the KCAL logo


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> If CBS2 is going to promote tuning in to TV 10-55, would it not make sense for it to be available in the same areas as WCBS? WLNY's signal does not reach New York City and it is not even on some cable systems to the north and west. There was some speculation here about new technology to extend the coverage area -- any new details there?
> 
> 
> By the way, WLNY will carry high school sports on Saturday afternoons this month. They also have an animated promo that explains the WLNY call letters -- We Love New York! And New Jersey and Connecticut too.
> 
> 
> Here's the newest addition to the news department: http://libn.com/files/2012/04/WLNY_van.jpg



What's the truck doing on W 56th street in Manhatten?


----------



## SnellKrell

West 56th Street is the location of the back entrance to the CBS Broadcast Center.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *412News* /forum/post/21865488
> 
> 
> because cbs didnt buy it they just bought only wlny. but im 65% sure that cbs will put a transmitter in manhattan to cover the rest of the tri-state.
> 
> KCAL 9 in LA is sister station to KCBS 2 in LA and the WLNY new logo looks just like the KCAL logo



You would think that WLNY would have a contract for the NYC repeater. When CBS bought WLNY they should of got that contract with it?


I wonder if KEN can ask his CBS friends again?


----------



## R.F. Burns

"West 56th Street is the location of the back entrance to the CBS Broadcast Center."



I'm well aware of this. Actually the van is closer to tenth avenue than the 56th steet employee entrance (Before you say anything I'm aware that there are vehicle entrances in a few different places on 56th street). The van was parked near the generators which used to be a small parking area. I ask again why isn't it in Suffolk county on L.I.? No big deal, just curious.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/21868577
> 
> 
> " The van was parked near the generators which used to be a small parking area. I ask again why isn't it in Suffolk county on L.I.? No big deal, just curious.



Because on the other side of the van is the CBS 2 logo.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech* /forum/post/21870269
> 
> 
> Because on the other side of the van is the CBS 2 logo.



Ahh, I left my x-ray glasses in my other jacket. Sorry.


----------



## 412News

lol


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21867330
> 
> 
> You would think that WLNY would have a contract for the NYC repeater. When CBS bought WLNY they should of got that contract with it?



Well, they dumped "Wheel" and "Jeopardy!" from the WLNY Lineup, apparently as a result of the ownership, market, and Syndex rules....


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## RichNorthNJ

Anybody have a scoop on what may be coming on channels 42.5 & 42.6 ? (color bar test patterns show at this time).


Anybody know why the 42.n channels never show up properly on the www.zap2it.com guide anymore? They USED to - long time ago, but their channels moved around within the same 42 frequency, & then disappeared.

The Bounce channel 9.3 was added not too long ago, & ALREADY zap2it.com has that channel lineup!! Thank you very much.









So what's up with these people at the 42.n channels for NYC & Northeast NJ? Also, the power of channels 42.n is extremely low & I bet not many people aren't even picking them up. I do, but with much antenna fanagling to get hottvchannel.

Right now the http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti....do?aid=zap2it listings STILL AFTER MANY MANY MONTHS OR EVEN MORE THAN A YEAR? STILL SHOW THE OLD CHANNEL LINEUPS FOR 42.1 (RTV) & 42.4 (TUFF TV)!!!, NEITHER OF WHICH ARE THE RIGHT CHANNELS AT THOSE FREQUENCES. THEY ARENT EVEN ON THE AIR ANYMORE IN THIS AREA.









What are the chances that new channels 42.5 & 42.6 could become RTV & TUFF TV?


----------



## NYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/21894505
> 
> 
> Anybody have a scoop on what may be coming on channels 42.5 & 42.6 ? (color bar test patterns show at this time).



Don't forget three more channels of color bars on WMBQ, 46.2, .3 and .4.


Also noticed when scrolling through channels that WNYW is saved not as 5, but as 44 -- their RF channel. The way WNYW and WWOR simulcast one another and flip the PSIP numbers to make it appear that they don't, make my converter boxes act in peculiar ways.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21895599
> 
> 
> ...Also noticed when scrolling through channels that WNYW is saved not as 5, but as 44 -- their RF channel. The way WNYW and WWOR simulcast one another and flip the PSIP numbers to make it appear that they don't, make my converter boxes act in peculiar ways.



I tuned to MY9 Tuesday night for the Yankee game; that's the first time I've tuned to MY9 in many months. I got a very solid 84% with the occasional tick up to 85%. This is on my VOOM box. 84% on that box is not "in the green" while 85% is. So that's the demarcation line between "iffy" reception and good reception, with 85% being basically solid reception with little, if any, issues. 83% is very poor reception (reception but with lots and lots of issues -- you basically wouldn't want to watch). But 84% seems to be essentially solid reception unless there's a lot of dropping down below that. On Tuesday nite, it seemed to be a very solid 84%.


So, since I had a VERY solid 84%, with virtually no drops down to 83 but some ticks up to 85, I had virtually no issues throughout the entire game.


Which went to the 12th inning, if I remember correctly. So it was a long game.


I believe this is some of the best MY9 reception I've had since I've been posting on this board. I wonder if it's because they've finished their work on the ESB?


Or it could have just been the weather. I suppose I'll learn more as the season progresses.


As to your comment, I get 9.1, 9.3 and 5.2 at RF 38 and I still cannot pull in 5.1 and 9.2 (or whatever it is they have at RF 44). It's just too weak. I can see it and it does occasionally jump up to 83%, which would be enough to lock it in (if it would stay there long enough, which it generally doesn't), and I have locked it in once or twice in the past, but it's unwatchable in any event.


9.3 seemed to be as strong as 9.1. There was a good flick on it that I watched for several minutes (I think it was Silverado) and reception seemed solid. PQ didn't look too bad either but I didn't watch it long enough to really be sure.


----------



## RichNorthNJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21895599
> 
> 
> Don't forget three more channels of color bars on WMBQ, 46.2, .3 and .4.
> 
> 
> Also noticed when scrolling through channels that WNYW is saved not as 5, but as 44 -- their RF channel. The way WNYW and WWOR simulcast one another and flip the PSIP numbers to make it appear that they don't, make my converter boxes act in peculiar ways.



I'm in Northeast NJ - I can not pick up the 58.n, 46.n or 21.n channels - indeed in the http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti....do?aid=zap2it for my zip code / local ota broadcast, 46.n channels are not even listed and even tho the 21.n's & 58.n's are listed I can not pick them up with the amplified Triquest Big lots rabbit ears - the best IMHO along with magnavox or zinwell dig to ana converters. If I can barely pick up Hot tv channel with only the magnavox, 21.n's & 58.n's channels must be too far away from me. I doubt their signal is as weak as hot tv channel. lol


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tuned to MY9 Tuesday night for the Yankee game; that's the first time I've tuned to MY9 in many months. I got a very solid 84% with the occasional tick up to 85%. This is on my VOOM box. 84% on that box is not "in the green" while 85% is. So that's the demarcation line between "iffy" reception and good reception, with 85% being basically solid reception with little, if any, issues. 83% is very poor reception (reception but with lots and lots of issues -- you basically wouldn't want to watch). But 84% seems to be essentially solid reception unless there's a lot of dropping down below that. On Tuesday nite, it seemed to be a very solid 84%.
> 
> 
> So, since I had a VERY solid 84%, with virtually no drops down to 83 but some ticks up to 85, I had virtually no issues throughout the entire game.
> 
> 
> Which went to the 12th inning, if I remember correctly. So it was a long game.
> 
> 
> I believe this is some of the best MY9 reception I've had since I've been posting on this board. I wonder if it's because they've finished their work on the ESB?
> 
> 
> Or it could have just been the weather. I suppose I'll learn more as the season progresses.
> 
> 
> As to your comment, I get 9.1, 9.3 and 5.2 at RF 38 and I still cannot pull in 5.1 and 9.2 (or whatever it is they have at RF 44). It's just too weak. I can see it and it does occasionally jump up to 83%, which would be enough to lock it in (if it would stay there long enough, which it generally doesn't), and I have locked it in once or twice in the past, but it's unwatchable in any event.
> 
> 
> 9.2 seemed to be as strong as 9.1. There was a good flick on it that I watched for several minutes (I think it was Silverado) and reception seemed solid. PQ didn't look too bad either but I didn't watch it long enough to really be sure.



how is 9.2 as strong as 9.1 when you say you cant pick up 9.2?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/21907967
> 
> 
> I'm in Northeast NJ - I can not pick up the 58.n, 46.n or 21.n channels - indeed in the http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti....do?aid=zap2it for my zip code / local ota broadcast, 46.n channels are not even listed and even tho the 21.n's & 58.n's are listed I can not pick them up with the amplified Triquest Big lots rabbit ears - the best IMHO along with magnavox or zinwell dig to ana converters. If I can barely pick up Hot tv channel with only the magnavox, 21.n's & 58.n's channels must be too far away from me. I doubt their signal is as weak as hot tv channel. lol



It's all about your location and the antenna you are using. I have 2 outdoor antennas (I used to have 3 but took one down as it did not prove to be useful) and one will pick up 9.1 and 9.2 fine and the other only picks up 9.1 fine. Until you tell us your exact location and the equipment you are using we can not help you much.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/21907967
> 
> 
> I'm in Northeast NJ - I can not pick up the 58.n, ... 58.n's channels must be too far away from me. I doubt their signal is as weak as hot tv channel. lol





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21908784
> 
> 
> It's all about your location and the antenna you are using....



I believe 58's signal is pretty weak. I'm only about 8 miles away and although I get it strong when pointed at it, I don't get it at all when pointed away from it a bit. I don't know anything about 50's signal (never have gotten it) but 52's (out of Trenton) is quite strong and that's what I watch.


I'm going on memory from a few years ago, but I believe 58 had a pretty weak signal, relatively speaking. It may have changed since then.


I edited my last post to correct the error that was pointed out.


Len, I note you say you don't get 9.2 on one of your antennas and I think you're much closer than I am, so that kinda confirms my inability to get it and 5.1. I've emailed with one of their engineers about it and he's basically thinking I should be getting it. I'd say it was the ridge that's blocking me from getting it but I get 9.1 and I think their antennas are both on the ESB, no? Their RF's aren't very different, so it shouldn't be my antenna.


Gotta be their signal strength. I'd like to get it for the occasional NY Giants game that's not on Philly Fox 29 (when the Eagles play at the same time), but I have never gotten it. So I have to watch those games on 5.2, which kinda sucks.


BTW, on my last NYC scan on Tuesday I failed to pick up some expected stations that I've gotten in the past, like 41, 63 & 68. Dunno why I didn't get 'em.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21909074
> 
> 
> I believe 58's signal is pretty weak. I'm only about 8 miles away and although I get it strong when pointed at it, I don't get it at all when pointed away from it a bit. I don't know anything about 50's signal (never have gotten it) but 52's (out of Trenton) is quite strong and that's what I watch.
> 
> 
> 
> Len, I note you say you don't get 9.2 on one of your antennas and I think you're much closer than I am, so that kinda confirms my inability to get it and 5.1. I've emailed with one of their engineers about it and he's basically thinking I should be getting it. I'd say it was the ridge that's blocking me.



We all have differences due to location of our homes, obstacles, our antennas etc. I don't find 58 (8.1) weak at all. I can't get when my neighbors LEDs are on that's all. I'm probably as far from the transmitters as you...maybe more.


As for 9.2 (5.1 also) I can explain that as my CM4228 gets it fine but it is up 40 feet on my chimmney. My other antenna is only about 12 feet off the ground so it does have some issues with certain channels.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9.3 seemed to be as strong as 9.1. There was a good flick on it that I watched for several minutes (I think it was Silverado) and reception seemed solid. PQ didn't look too bad either but I didn't watch it long enough to really be sure.



Its on the same frequency so there is no reason to expect the 2 to have different signal levels


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Len, I note you say you don't get 9.2 on one of your antennas and I think you're much closer than I am, so that kinda confirms my inability to get it and 5.1. I've emailed with one of their engineers about it and he's basically thinking I should be getting it. I'd say it was the ridge that's blocking me from getting it but I get 9.1 and I think their antennas are both on the ESB, no? Their RF's aren't very different, so it shouldn't be my antenna.
> 
> 
> Gotta be their signal strength. I'd like to get it for the occasional NY Giants game that's not on Philly Fox 29 (when the Eagles play at the same time), but I have never gotten it. So I have to watch those games on 5.2, which kinda sucks.
> 
> 'em.



WMCN on RF44 out of south NJ is likely wiping out any chance of you getting 5.1


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21915141
> 
> 
> WMCN on RF44 out of south NJ is likely wiping out any chance of you getting 5.1



Hardly seems likely since it's a weaker station and is probably 3 times farther away in the opposite direction. There's no way my antenna is even gonna sniff WMCN when I'm pointed toward NYC.


I've never even picked it up when pointed toward Philly.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21914544
> 
> 
> Its on the same frequency so there is no reason to expect the 2 to have different signal levels



I see different strengths between subchannels and the main channel all the time. In fact, it's rare that they all ever come it at the same strength.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> I see different strengths between subchannels and the main channel all the time. In fact, it's rare that they all ever come it at the same strength.



You cannot measure any difference between the "strength" of a main or a sub-channel since that are part of the same signal. Built-in "signal meters" do not measure or indicate signal power.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/21916526
> 
> 
> You cannot measure any difference between the "strength" of a main or a sub-channel since that are part of the same signal. Built-in "signal meters" do not measure or indicate signal power.



In the NY City area we do have an exception. 9.1 and 9.2 are not the same broadcast signal. The reality is 9.2 and 5.1 are broadcast at the same signal and 5.2 and 9.1 at the same. The experts on this forum can explain how it is done and why by those stations.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/21916526
> 
> 
> You cannot measure any difference between the "strength" of a main or a sub-channel since that are part of the same signal. Built-in "signal meters" do not measure or indicate signal power.



You may technically be correct in your first sentence, but you're definitely wrong in your second sentence. When I scan with my VOOM box, it registers each channel and subchannel as well as the signal strength for each channel and subchannel. The strengths frequently differ. As a matter of fact, they almost always do (they may ALWAYS do, I just never really bothered to document it). This is displayed both as the scan progresses and also when it is completed (as the scan "result").


So my VOOM box most definitely "indicates" signal power for each main channel and subchannel. I'm not saying the readings are accurate, just that it "indicates" a difference.


I also notice that subchannel reception is sometimes more problematic than the main channel reception, or appears to be. I suppose maybe this is a "bandwidth" issue? I dunno. I'm certainly not an engineer.


I suspect that your assessment is correct; however, since I don't really know for sure, I'm just throwing out my observations as food for thought. I certainly wouldn't want to bet serious $$ that you're wrong.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21916626
> 
> 
> In the NY City area we do have an exception. 9.1 and 9.2 are not the same broadcast signal. The reality is 9.2 and 5.1 are broadcast at the same signal and 5.2 and 9.1 at the same. The experts on this forum can explain how it is done and why by those stations.



You are correct, but that's not what I was referring to. I don't consider 9.2 a subchannel of 9.1 -- at least not for purposes of this particular discussion. As you say, it's broadcast at an entirely different frequency and, notably, from an entirely different antenna. The only reason 5.2 is a "subchannel" of 9.1, and 9.2 is a "subchannel" of 5.1, is because of the corporate connection between Fox and WWOR, yada yada yada.


It's a corporate situation, not an engineering situation.


But your clarification is appreciated because it is indeed a confusing situation.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21916626
> 
> 
> In the NY City area we do have an exception. 9.1 and 9.2 are not the same broadcast signal. The reality is 9.2 and 5.1 are broadcast at the same signal and 5.2 and 9.1 at the same. The experts on this forum can explain how it is done and why by those stations.



You are correct. I forgot about this somewhat rare circumstance.



> Quote:
> but you're definitely wrong in your second sentence.



Unless the display is indicating power levels in dBm or similar, it isn't actually directly measuring power in most cases (perhaps the old VOOM boxes are different).


On most TVs and converter boxes I've tested, the single "signal meter" function uses some arbitrary and proprietary combination of signal power and/or BER/MER rates to provide a consumer-grade indicator. My Sencore meter, OTOH, provides a direct reading of signal power. The APEX 502 box has a dual meter indicator that, I suppose, could be used if someone did a correlation between its linear scale and a signal meter such as the Sencore.


The ONLY tuners I've seen so far that directly measure the signal power are the high-end HDHomerun boxes (TECH3 series).


----------



## AloEuro

Interesting thing happened when ch.42come and goes came again and split wCBS 2-1 from CBS+2-2.

About week ago I did FullScan, got 60, and CBS2-1 was forced to 33-1, and CBS+2-2 remained on 2-2 adding about 5 dead subs, punching 2 led to 42, punching 33 to CBS2-1 was the only way.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/21921336
> 
> 
> ...Unless the display is indicating power levels in dBm or similar, it isn't actually directly measuring power in most cases (perhaps the old VOOM boxes are different)....



The VOOM only gives figures in terms of percent. So it's only giving relative figures. 95% means it's receiving the signal more (or "better") than 94%. It has a useful fuction called "aim off-air antenna" which allows you to punch in any RF and get a reading -- again in terms of percent. This is a separate function from running a scan and getting the figures during the scan and also at the end of the scan (displayed as the scan "result" which you can then either accept or reject (cancel)).


On the "aim off-air antenna" function, you enter a RF and get a reading (in terms of percent) displayed as a horizontal bar graph kind of thing. It says in that function window: "Will lock onto signal at 80" and "Must be at least 85 to allow for weather fade"


The bar graph display is orange below 85 and changes to green at 85. The box gives audible beeps which change at 85 and then again above that (I think at 95). That's useful for "tuning" my antenna since I can turn it and listen to the beeps and find the "sweet spot."


My experience is that a solid 84 gives essentially issue-free reception (in good weather, anyway) and a solid 85 is very solid reception, as the box claims. Anything above 85 is obviously even better.


There is always at least some variation in signal strength as displayed with the "aim off-air antenna" function, even if it's only minimal. It is very often a very wide variation, like with RF 44 (5.1 and 9.2). That one typically peaks at 83 (but not for more than 2 or 3 seconds) and then drops off to zero. I almost never can lock it in even tho' it does peak at 83. I think in order to lock it in it needs to sustain that reading longer than it does. During a scan the box will typically pause for several seconds at a given RF and then either lock that in or not. So it apparently takes some time for it to lock in a given RF station.


The VOOM is much better at pulling in stations than my Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver. But it does have that conflict with TVGOS, which means I can't use it to watch the NYC and Philly CBS stations. It also has a conflict with WLVT's subchannels, which it can't distinguish. Thus 39.3 shows up same as the main channel, rather than with the programming it's actually carrying, and 39.4 gives me nada even tho' it's locked in at virtually the same strength as 39.1 and 39.3.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21922473
> 
> 
> ... like with RF 44 (5.1 and 9.2). That one typically peaks at 83 (but not for more than 2 or 3 seconds) and then drops off to zero. I almost never can lock it in even tho' it does peak at 83. I think in order to lock it in it needs to sustain that reading longer than it does...



I find the discrepancy between the Fox stations (5.1 & 9.2) and the MY9 stations (9.1, 9.3 & 5.2) puzzling. The RFs aren't that different (38 & 44), so I can't believe it's my antenna. So I'm thinking it's gotta be their antennas and, perhaps, their relative broadcast powers?


As I've posted recently, 9.1 is pretty much a rock solid 84 (at least) whereas 5.1 is essentially continuous cycles of a momentary 83 followed by a drop to zero. That seems like quite a wide variation for two stations which are corporately connected (if that's a word) and with both their antennas located on the ESB.


So what's up with that?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21922529
> 
> 
> I find the discrepancy between the Fox stations (5.1 & 9.2) and the MY9 stations (9.1, 9.3 & 5.2) puzzling. The RFs aren't that different (38 & 44), so I can't believe it's my antenna. So I'm thinking it's gotta be their antennas and, perhaps, their relative broadcast powers?
> 
> 
> As I've posted recently, 9.1 is pretty much a rock solid 84 (at least) whereas 5.1 is essentially continuous cycles of a momentary 83 followed by a drop to zero. That seems like quite a wide variation for two stations which are corporately connected (if that's a word) and with both their antennas located on the ESB.
> 
> 
> So what's up with that?



As I said earlier I have 2 different antennas at 2 different locations on my chimmney and one receives both 9.1 and 5.1 great. The other just barely pulls in 5.1 with some pixillation and even dropouts from time to time. Same house. Same part of Jersey.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I find the discrepancy between the Fox stations (5.1 & 9.2) and the MY9 stations (9.1, 9.3 & 5.2) puzzling. The RFs aren't that different (38 & 44), so I can't believe it's my antenna. So I'm thinking it's gotta be their antennas and, perhaps, their relative broadcast powers?
> 
> 
> As I've posted recently, 9.1 is pretty much a rock solid 84 (at least) whereas 5.1 is essentially continuous cycles of a momentary 83 followed by a drop to zero. That seems like quite a wide variation for two stations which are corporately connected (if that's a word) and with both their antennas located on the ESB.
> 
> 
> So what's up with that?



There are many factors that can affect your ability to receive or not receive a station which I won't get into because you will likely just dispute it but if the channel is that important to you, invest a few dollars in a newer converter or experiment with your setup. Blaming Fox and posting the same complaint over the course of several months is less likely to get positive results.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21923164
> 
> 
> As I said earlier I have 2 different antennas at 2 different locations on my chimmney and one receives both 9.1 and 5.1 great. The other just barely pulls in 5.1 with some pixillation and even dropouts from time to time. Same house. Same part of Jersey.



Sooooooo, how does that one do with 9.1? You didn't say. Sounds like all you've shown is that your other antenna's location is lousy for 5.1. How does that lead you to conclude that my situation, where I'm using only one antenna (obviously not at different locations, as is your situation) is due to that antenna?











The fact that you receive both stations fine on your one antenna means only that you're in a good spot to receive both on that antenna. That's obviously not my situation. I'm clearly on the edge of reception for MY9, so it only makes sense to me that if Fox's signal is weaker than MY9's, I'd have a problem receiving it.


Which is indeed the case.


And which also was my point.


So I don't see why you think it's "me" and not Fox. As I said, their RF's are fairly close, so I seriously doubt that my antenna isn't as able to get RF 44 as it is RF 38. I'm using a roof mounted RS Model VU-190 XR antenna, which has the rather standard UHF end.


Perhaps nyctveng can enlighten us.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21923253
> 
> 
> There are many factors that can affect your ability to receive or not receive a station which I won't get into because you will likely just dispute it but if the channel is that important to you, invest a few dollars in a newer converter or experiment with your setup. Blaming Fox and posting the same complaint over the course of several months is less likely to get positive results.



Thanks for the advice, but 5.1 isn't very important to me at all. And you're correct, I will 'dispute" something you've said. I don't think I've ever posted before about 5.1, so I don't know where you got the idea I've been "blaming Fox and posting the same complaint over the course of several months." But even if I had been, I dunno why you think it would be "less likely to get positive results." I doubt either station cares much about whatever I might say.


Feel free to give me those many factors that you feel would affect my ability to receive RF 44 as opposed to RF 38. I already gave you two of them: 1) Fox's antenna location (as opposed to MY9's) and 2) Fox's broadcast power (as opposed to MY9's). Now that I've checked it out, I see that WNYW's broadcast power is 246 kW while MY9's is 170 kW. And they both claim to be at the same height. Both antennas are on the ESB. So I guess it's not a power thing since 5.1 is at higher power, same location, same height.


So I'm intrigued. What's your take on it?


Enlighten us with your wisdom and expertise, kind sir.


----------



## LenL

Your problem may be you are at the Bridgwater Commons Mall. Try to get reception at your house instead of in the Macy's store. Just kidding.


I guess the best thing I can tell you is go to TVFOOL and plug in your exact address and your Antenna info and they will tell you the signals you are supposed to be getting and strength. You should see what you are supposed to be getting for 5.1 and 9.1 etc.


I have found TVFOOL to not be too accurate for me but others swear by it:

http://www.tvfool.com/ 


You can also validate the findings by also checking this site which may give slightly different results:

http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/21924544
> 
> 
> Sooooooo, how does that one do with 9.1? You didn't say. Sounds like all you've shown is that your other antenna's location is lousy for 5.1. How does that lead you to conclude that my situation, where I'm using only one antenna (obviously not at different locations, as is your situation) is due to that antenna?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you receive both stations fine on your one antenna means only that you're in a good spot to receive both on that antenna. That's obviously not my situation. I'm clearly on the edge of reception for MY9, so it only makes sense to me that if Fox's signal is weaker than MY9's, I'd have a problem receiving it.
> 
> 
> Which is indeed the case.
> 
> 
> And which also was my point.
> 
> 
> So I don't see why you think it's "me" and not Fox. As I said, their RF's are fairly close, so I seriously doubt that my antenna isn't as able to get RF 44 as it is RF 38. I'm using a roof mounted RS Model VU-190 XR antenna, which has the rather standard UHF end.
> 
> 
> Perhaps nyctveng can enlighten us.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice, but 5.1 isn't very important to me at all. And you're correct, I will 'dispute" something you've said. I don't think I've ever posted before about 5.1, so I don't know where you got the idea I've been "blaming Fox and posting the same complaint over the course of several months." But even if I had been, I dunno why you think it would be "less likely to get positive results." I doubt either station cares much about whatever I might say.
> 
> 
> Feel free to give me those many factors that you feel would affect my ability to receive RF 44 as opposed to RF 38. I already gave you two of them: 1) Fox's antenna location (as opposed to MY9's) and 2) Fox's broadcast power (as opposed to MY9's). Now that I've checked it out, I see that WNYW's broadcast power is 246 kW while MY9's is 170 kW. And they both claim to be at the same height. Both antennas are on the ESB. So I guess it's not a power thing since 5.1 is at higher power, same location, same height.
> 
> 
> So I'm intrigued. What's your take on it?
> 
> 
> Enlighten us with your wisdom and expertise, kind sir.



The difference in power amounts to 1.6 dB and if you get one and not the other you're pretty close to the "cliff." Your issue is more likely "multipath." With all the reflective surfaces in the vicinity, both static and dynamic, you are in the middle of a classic geometry problem where signals received over the direct path can add in phase or out of phase with their reflections that travel longer paths. That addition depends upon the wavelength of the signal. UHF antenna installers have long known that moving the antenna up/down/left/right will change the strength of received signals making placement and orientation a compromise to get acceptable reception from multiple stations even when co-located like on ESB. Unfortunately very few posess suitable test equipment to observe signal strengths while positioning the antenna, and the wimpy "strength" feature of most digital receivers is not elegant enough in challenging reception situations such as yours.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21925539
> 
> 
> ...I guess the best thing I can tell you is go to TVFOOL and plug in your exact address and your Antenna info and they will tell you the signals you are supposed to be getting and strength. You should see what you are supposed to be getting for 5.1 and 9.1 etc...



Thanks Len. I've been there and done that many times but not recently. So I just went again and checked it out as a result of your advise. Very interesting result, too.


Despite the fact that WNYW 5.1 is broadcasting at considerably higher power than WWOR 9.1 (MY9), it's considerably further down on the list. It comes in at -9.2 for me whereas MY9 is 8 places above it at -4.1


For comparison's sake, WNET 13.1 is 8 places above MY9 at +3.2. WLVT 39.1 is actually 2 places below WNET at +2.5, and that's a very strong station for me, even when I'm pointed toward Philly and not really toward Bethlehem. WNET is not a strong station for me at all. I'm on the edge of good reception for them and really can't get them without rather serious issues. It's watchable, but just barely.


Now, I know that WNYW's higher power might not mean much because they are broadcasting at a higher RF than MY9, and ya have to take both the RF and power into consideration (however that works), but TV Fool does reflect that I should be getting MY9 somewhat better -- maybe even considerably better -- than WNYW 5.1


Which is indeed the case.


So TV Fool does seem to confirm what I'm seeing at my place. I'm on the edge for MY9 but thankfully get it well enough, and I'm also on the bad side of the edge for WNYW 5.1, and thus can't quite pull it in.


For whatever reason.


AND


As I'm writing this, I now see George Molnar's post which seems to have a pretty good explanation as to why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.


----------



## LenL

My TV Fool Readings show that 11.1, 13.1, 9.1, 7.1, 4.1, 2.1 are all stronger than 5.1.


However my actual results are that 5.1 is my strongest station followed by 7.1 then 4.1 then 2.1 on my CM4228. I just barely get 11.1 and 13.1.


Like I said TVFOOL is not very reliable for me. It doesn't factor in everything and therefore can be quite wrong.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21925854
> 
> 
> The difference in power amounts to 1.6 dB and if you get one and not the other you're pretty close to the "cliff." Your issue is more likely "multipath." ....



I nearly completed the following this morning but life intervened, so I'm posting it now.


Interesting that you've used the "cliff" analogy. I've previously posted on my problem; specifically, that I'm partially blocked from NYC stations by a ridge. Also, I posted (I think sometime last year) about the reception map I saw which indicated that I just happen to be in a particularly "dead spot" for NYC station reception. I was talking about my MY9 reception at that time. Can't recall what map I was looking at, but the post is there if I wanna find it.


I think it might have actually been MY9's map off the FCC site.


In any event, I have serious issues with NYC reception because of my particular geographic location. I'm considerably closer to NYC than to Philly, but because of my clear LOS to Philly (and Allentown/Bethlehem), I pretty much watch TV out of those locations and really only go to NCY for the NY Yankee games on MY9 or the occasional NY Giants football game on Fox, which I have to watch on MY9's substation, 5.2 (which is SD, not HD, unfortunately)


Other than wanting to watch the occasional NY Giants game on 5.1 (thus in HD) or the even rarer NY Yankee game there, I have no need for 5.1.


The only need for 5.1 on a Yankee game would be where Fox is carrying it as their Saturday game (obviously) and the Phillies are also being carried by Fox and thus also playing at the same time. Thus "Philly Fox" (WTXF ch 29.1) carries the Phillies and I thus can't watch the Yankees there as per usual.


I think that's maybe happened one time.


BTW, I only started this subject line recently because it appeared that my MY9 reception had improved since last Fall when they were still doing the work at the ESB. I assume that's been completed now and it looked to me like I might now have pretty solid MY9 reception at 84% with bumps up to 85, which is just fine by me. But time will tell as to whether or not my recent good reception was just good luck or weather related or whatever. I'm hoping that it's here to stay, but we shall see, I guess.


----------



## ALP

Folks, I knew this day would come but I did not expect it this soon. Cablevision just called to say that in less than a month they will force me to use a set top for basic cable. This is not what I want, I have too many drops and too many DVR's to make a cable box work. We wath very few cable progams, most of what we watch is network TV. I have done most of the prep for going OTA but I am in a bit of a panic. I have upgraded all the cable runs in my house with Belden top of line video cable, have installed a drop amp and have tested from my location (Pleasnatville, NY, about 35 to 40 miles from NYC) with a Radio Shack Amplified HDTV Indoor/Outdoor Directional Antenna. I get all the major network channels in HDTV. My problem is my house does not have an attic so I do not want to use an amplified antenna outdoors. I would prefer a non amplified antenna (the signal will be amplified at the drop amp). Can anyone here recommend an antenna or a supplier that I should use to get the right antenna. All I want to do is put up the antenna and connect the lead that is now connected to the Cablevision cable to the antenna.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I use an old Winegard (old because we've been using it for almost 27 years) with a rotor that is VHF-UHF. The drop amp is in the garage which sounds like what you want to do. The antenna is part of the Chromstar 2000 series, model CA-8100 with 79 active elements, RG-6 cable. It might be too big for your uses but ChannelMaster makes quite a few VHF-UHF antennas that might meet your needs depending on your TVFool location.


----------



## Mr.H

Tony,


We are in Ossining, not far from Pleasantville. Having said that everyone's situation is different, the main factors being elevation and obstructions. We are lucky in that our path to the ESB is mainly over water (the Hudson River) and the only obstructions we have are some close by mature trees. Our antenna is a 4-bay bow-tie model similar to the CM4221 (a UHF antenna) but does reasonably well with the VHF stations. It is mounted outdoors about 10 feet above roof level. It is not amplified, but we do have a distribution amp in the basement.


We get a solid signal for all the major stations. We have one TV that has trouble with 7 and 31, but another tuner pulls them in quite well - go figure! We wish we could get WLIW-21, but alas it is very weak here.


I'd consider the CM4221, or the Winegard equivalent. Depending on your situation, you could consider an 8-bay bow-tie, or a VHF/UHF yagi such as the Winegard HD-769 series.


I bought mine from Stark Electronics in Worcester, MA (they do ship).


Hope that helps!


Paul


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.H* /forum/post/21932942
> 
> 
> Tony,
> 
> 
> We are in Ossining, not far from Pleasantville. Having said that everyone's situation is different, the main factors being elevation and obstructions. We are lucky in that our path to the ESB is mainly over water (the Hudson River) and the only obstructions we have are some close by mature trees. Our antenna is a 4-bay bow-tie model similar to the CM4221 (a UHF antenna) but does reasonably well with the VHF stations. It is mounted outdoors about 10 feet above roof level. It is not amplified, but we do have a distribution amp in the basement.
> 
> 
> We get a solid signal for all the major stations. We have one TV that has trouble with 7 and 31, but another tuner pulls them in quite well - go figure! We wish we could get WLIW-21, but alas it is very weak here.
> 
> 
> I'd consider the CM4221, or the Winegard equivalent. Depending on your situation, you could consider an 8-bay bow-tie, or a VHF/UHF yagi such as the Winegard HD-769 series.
> 
> 
> I bought mine from Stark Electronics in Worcester, MA (they do ship).
> 
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> 
> Paul



Paul, Thank you so much, lot of good information here. Stark looks like a very good source. Right now looking at CM 2020, but will review all options. Good news is we are on a hill very near the top.


----------



## LenL

Alp


I read your note 5 times and I still don't understand it and I think the people responding so far don't either:


1. You can't install in an attic

2. You don't want to install outdoors

3. You don't want to amplify the signal outside

4. you are 35-40 miles from the ESB


I really don't think you can use an indoor antenna from 35-40 miles out. If you do it would have to be too big to have near your TV. If you are successful let us know but I can only see and outdoor antenna working for you.

I'm 30 miles out an I could only get a signal that was worthwhile with an outdoor antenna and a preamp. But I am probably in a different situation.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21933561
> 
> 
> Alp
> 
> 
> I read your note 5 times and I still don't understand it and I think the people responding so far don't either:
> 
> 
> 1. You can't install in an attic
> 
> 2. You don't want to install outdoors
> 
> 3. You don't want to amplify the signal outside
> 
> 4. you are 35-40 miles from the ESB
> 
> 
> I really don't think you can use an indoor antenna from 35-40 miles out. If you do it would have to be too big to have near your TV. If you are successful let us know but I can only see and outdoor antenna working for you.
> 
> I'm 30 miles out an I could only get a signal that was worthwhile with an outdoor antenna and a preamp. But I am probably in a different situation.



Len, Sorry for the confusion, please see below:


1. I can't install in an attic (I do not have an attic)

2. I DO want to install outdoors

3. I will amplify the signal outside at my drop amp (distribution amp, cable run from antenna to drop amp will be 20 to 25 feet)

4. I am 35-40 miles from the ESB


Hope this clears things up. - Tony


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/21933577
> 
> 
> Len, Sorry for the confusion, please see below:
> 
> 
> 1. I can't install in an attic (I do not have an attic)
> 
> 2. I DO want to install outdoors
> 
> 3. I will amplify the signal outside at my drop amp (distribution amp, cable run from antenna to drop amp will be 20 to 25 feet)
> 
> 4. I am 35-40 miles from the ESB
> 
> 
> Hope this clears things up. - Tony



If you want a compact outdoor antenna in that range, take a look at the RCA ANT751R. I think this is also known as the EZ-HD antenna sold by Denny's Antenna. I used to have the Winegard HD-1080, but it was awful on VHF (some VHF channels have negative db gain that is worse than a dipole). I should also mention that I am about 35 miles north of you in Poughkeepsie. However, my antenna is aimed at Albany, NY TV stations since terrain is more favorable aimed north (1 Edge for Albany compared to 2 Edge for NYC). I haven't tried aiming this antenna at ESB, so I can't vouch for its performance on NYC stations. But I can pick up one VHF and three UHF channels from Albany (not including sub channels) at 65 miles away, which is amazing considering how low to the ground my antenna is currently mounted outside.


I have this antenna temporarily mounted on a mast in the ground with coax running through the window with a low noise line amp on the other side of the window with a splitter to two TVs (one to my PC USB TV tuner and another to a DTV converter box). Eventually I will use the J-Pole mount that came with the antenna to mount it on the side of the house (I don't climb on roofs anymore). Check out the picture attached to see what it looks like. It small and not an eyesore.


I believe there is a difference between the ANT751 and ANT751R with the elements cut differently (ANT751R is optimized for channels 7 to 52 instead of 7 to 69). I may be wrong but I think the ANT751R squeezes a little bit of extra db gain because it is tuned for a narrower band of channels (nobody broadcasts on channels 53-69 anymore). The ANT751R is newer and uses the ridiculus claim that it is "optimized for digital reception". It may be optimized for better reception, but that has nothing to do with digital signals. Bottom line - go with the newer model ANT751R, not the ANT751. You can usually find the ANT751R online at a lower price than Denny's EZ-HD antenna.


You might also want to replace that drop amp with a CM7777 preamp outside (at 35+ miles you really should be using a preamp close to the antenna - preamp located just a foot or two away instead of your existing 20-25 ft for the drop amp). Is your drop amp meant for VHF/UHF reception or is this some cable TV amp? You won't get good results using a 5-2000MHz cable drop amp connected to an over the air TV antenna.


Some more examples on mixing and matching antennas and amps in this article.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=36 


LenL is right, you may be pushing your luck with an indoor antenna at that range, but I'll throw in this link in case anyone wants to check out this review of different indoor antennas.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=2053 


Hope that helps. Glad to help out anyone who is interested in cutting their cable cord. ;-)


----------



## ALP

NC, Thanks for the input, can you please help me understand why you say the following:


"You won't get good results using a 5-2000MHz cable drop amp connected to an over the air TV antenna."


The cable signal and the TV antenna signal have the same frequency range so why won't the drop amp work. I use an 8 port drop amp because I divide the incoming cable signal into 5 branches (I cap off the 3 unused ports on the drop amp). If I were to use a 6 way splitter then I would have about a 12 dB drop on each branch. I would have to find a antenna preamp that would boast the signal enough to compensate for this drop, that is what the drop amp does. Also in the past with an analog TV system I used an antenna with an amp at the antenna. The power for the amp was fed to it over the coax cable that carried the TV signal (typical for antenna amps). This caused a noticeable interference in the TV signal (low level but noticeable). Not sure if this would happen with HDTV, but the drop amp causes no interference problems in the HDTV signal from the cable.


I am not trying to be critical of your input, I just need to understand it better. Going to a antenna amp and splitter will require a lot of modification on my part (due to the fact that my house does not have an attic and right now y drop amp is outside in a typical cable box installation) and I just want to better understand why the drop amp will not work with an antenna signal before I make major modifications. I will also try to send an email to Pete (the HD Expert).


----------



## ProjectSHO89

The "classic" 7777 has been discontinued and replaced by a new single input version. I haven't seen a single report of the new version.


The usual significance in choosing to amplify at the masthead sometimes boils down to the extra signal insertion loss of the downlead from the antenna to the amplifier. For each 16-18' of RG6, there will be about 1 dB of insertion loss. This additional insertion loss has the same net effect of either lowering the antenna gain by the same amount or by increasing the noise figure of the amplifier by the same amount. If you have significant signal level margins, it doesn't matter. However, if you're close to the edge on your signal levels, the extra downlead to a distribution amp vs. a pre-amp can spell the difference between success and failure.


Most amps sold as distribution amps are nothing more than cable TV amps (sometimes with different labels, sometimes not). Most of them have a 15 dB amp plus whatever splitter package is needed for the number of outputs (1, 2, 4, or 8) incorporated into the same shell. Some of them have the return path, either active or passive, for cable systems, but that won't affect the antenna signals.


Current UHF broadcast band is 14-51, not 52.


----------



## NervousCat

ProjectSHO89 is right. Amplifying at the masthead is your best bet to minimize and preamps allow you do that in two pieces (the preamp is located on the mast just underneath the antenna and the power supply is located further down the line near a power outlet probably in the same place where your existing distribution amp is located). After the power supply you use passive splitters instead of a distribution amp because you already have amplification on your signal.


Based on personal experience in the past I've had better luck with a mast mounted preamp (I used to have a older CM Spartan 0264 that is now discontinued) than my 15db one-in one-out line amp for Cable TV. The only line amp I've actually had good luck with is the one I use now, just inside the house. It's a Kitz KT-200 low noise amp placed 15 ft away from the antenna. Trip did a review of the Kitz KT-200 amp a while ago.

http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/inde...Kitztech-KT200 


You might also want to consider the Winegard AP-8275 preamp since the classic CM7777 is going away. I'm sure there are some reviews of that one.


Looking at TVFool.com map for Pleasantville, NY (using zip code 10570), you only have two low power stations close to you at 8 and 14 miles away and that shouldn't be too much of a problem with overloading the amp. The majority of the stations are coming from ESB, about 30 miles away. You can do your own TVFool analysis with your exact location down to street level.


One more thing, many of these preamps have a switchable FM Trap. You should take advantage of the FM trap if you have FM stations nearby. The harmonics can introduce noise and degrade your performance (in the pre-DTV days you could see the herringbone pattern overlapped on the analog TV picture). I don't think you'll find an FM trap on a cable TV amp.


I say experiment. Try the antenna without your cable amp and send the signal to only one TV in the house as a benchmark. Once you get a benchmark of the channels you can pick up, then try it with your existing cable amp, and rescan on multiple TVs. If it's worse (and it could be), don't use the amp. If you end up buying a preamp, you will mount it to the mast underneath your antenna and you can test that configuration. The only problem with that is you'll have to revisit your antenna installation to install the premap if you already mounted the antenna (another trip to the roof), so you could do what I did - temporarily put the mast low to the ground outside so you can change the configuration on the mast easily.


----------



## LenL

A preamp mounted at the mast with the power supply in the house may be very good for ALP.


I have a mast mounted PREAMP CM7777 and because of long runs to 2 TVs I also use a distribution amp which has worked well for me.


So if ALP would have long cable runs from the a preamp power supply in the house like I have then I would also advise that a distribution amp may also help.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21936732
> 
> 
> A preamp mounted at the mast with the power supply in the house may be very good for ALP.
> 
> 
> I have a mast mounted PREAMP CM7777 and because of long runs to 2 TVs I also use a distribution amp which has worked well for me.
> 
> 
> So if ALP would have long cable runs from the a preamp power supply in the house like I have then I would also advise that a distribution amp may also help.



That's a good point since ALP says he has a 8 way distribution amp, and those kind of amps usually have around 3 db gain for each port.


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/21936626
> 
> 
> Current UHF broadcast band is 14-51, not 52.



Thanks .. I stand corrected. I used to have an old B&W TV I bought at a garage sale 25 years ago where the UHF channel knob went to 83. Ah the good old days of wide open RF spectrum!


----------



## NervousCat

Tony - I think the only disadvantage of the RCA ANT751R is not enough UHF elements, but it still holds its own against small UHF-only antennas like the Antennas Direct DB2 (I used to have one of those aimed at Albany and I got the same number of UHF stations as the ANT751R).


Other antennas to look at are Channel Master CM2018 or the Winegard HD7695P. I noticed in a past posting you are looking at a CM2020 - that might be a good one to try out with your existing distribution amp. It sounds like you're going the bigger is better route, which is a good strategy.


Here's an additional resource, but as the disclaimer says, you will find many contradictory antenna reviews here: http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/hdtv-antenna-reviews.php 


Happy hunting!


----------



## ALP

Guys, I cannot thank you enough for all the great input you are giving me, I really appreciate all the help. I plan to call Stark tomorrow and see what they think for an antenna, I was thinking of the CM2020 (my wife will hate it since it is so huge, so if it is true overkill I will go with something smaller). Right now I am looking at about 20 ft from antenna to the drop amp. I re-cabled the entire house with Belden 1694A so I am hoping the insertion loss for that run is not too much more than 1 dB. The drop amp is an Electroline EDA-FT08000 and it does have a forward gain of 3 dB (reverse loss of 10 dB) and works for 54-1000 MHz. There are FM stations near by and the drop amp does not have an FM trap. I was aware of the problem with old TV but I thought DTV would be immune to FM problems, guess not.


If I have to use a antenna preamp I will have to install the power unit in the same outdoor box as the drop amp (all me cabling is outdoors due to no attic, each branch from the drop amp is routed outdoors until it gets to the point near the actual TV and then goes through the wall to the indoors). This will mean having to find a code correct way of getting 120V AC to the cable junction box (probable metal conduit







).


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> This will mean having to find a code correct way of getting 120V AC to the cable junction box



Not if you use a splitter with a DC Pass port... Here's an example of a 4-output system: http://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_f...itter_Opt2.pdf 


If you can't find an 8-output splitter with a single DC pass port, there are several options including a 2 output (with a power port) plus a 4 output splitter or you could use an 8 output satellite splitter with DC blocks on non-power providing port (unless the splitter is equipped with steering diodes).


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/21937146
> 
> 
> The drop amp is an Electroline EDA-FT08000 and it does have a forward gain of 3 dB (reverse loss of 10 dB) and works for 54-1000 MHz.



The Electroline EDA-FT08000 is probably the best 8 way cable drop amp out there. Good choice.


You could also put in a A/B switch in that box outside (before the Electroline amp) if you have a need to switch between the antenna and the cable input feed. If you plan to exclusively use the TV antenna and cancel your cable subscription, then you have no need for a switch.


----------



## Digital Rules

I suggest the Winegard 7694 if size is a concern. It's a robust performer antenna for it's size & better constructed than the Channel Master 2020.


I suggest trying the current distribution amp before buying a preamp. I've used Channel Master distribution amps at different locations in the past when multiple splits were needed. More than once the amp improved reception over what was achieved *with just one set* connected directly to the antenna.


----------



## NervousCat

Antennas like the Winegard 769x series also have a narrower beam width than the Channel Master CM20xx series (in other words Winegard's is more directional).


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/21937243
> 
> 
> Not if you use a splitter with a DC Pass port... Here's an example of a 4-output system: http://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_f...itter_Opt2.pdf
> 
> 
> If you can't find an 8-output splitter with a single DC pass port, there are several options including a 2 output (with a power port) plus a 4 output splitter or you could use an 8 output satellite splitter with DC blocks on non-power providing port (unless the splitter is equipped with steering diodes).



This is a slick way to go. If I have to change out the drop amp I will look for one of these.


----------



## nyctveng

WPIX is dropping Estrella in May


----------



## StudioTech

Wonder if the bandwidth will go back to the main channel.


----------



## LenL

In today's Star Ledger there was an article on the addition of broadcast facilities at the new 1 World Tradecenter and the luring of select broadcasters there because it will be cheaper for them and they can reach more viewers if the FCC allows them to use more power.


Not sure what it will mean for us in terms of needing to change antenna direction etc. This is probably serveral years away from happening.


----------



## SnellKrell

Much of the Star-Ledger's article is old news. Most comes from a Joint Press Release -

#33 issued by the Durst Organization and The Port Authority of NY and NJ.


That Press Release was issued on March 6th!


True, with the additional height of !WTC vs. the ESB, broadcasters would be able to consume fewer watts to achieve the same coverage area or possible more. Electricity is hideously expensive. Yes, the Durst Organization is offering an interesting package to broadcasters which includes backup facilities on its 4TS building.


But, what broadcasters will have to consider are: What will the government do in reallocating spectrum/channels? What will be the rental costs for transmitter space and space on the masts? What will be the cost to equip new facilities?


The March 6th Press Release is the first salvo in what we will experience as a P.R. war between 1WTC and the ESB. I well remember the back and forth hyperbole that took place years ago between the ESB and the Port Authority concerning the use of the WTC's North Tower.


----------



## ALP

My focus right now is much more immediate. I have just started to to put up the mast and hope to put the antenna up this weekend ( I have the antenna, however, the forecast of 40 mph winds today has me thinking this is probably not the best day to try to put up the antenna







). So as long as all of the transmitters stay on the ESB for the next few days I will not worry about them moving to the WTC until it starts to happen.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21957122
> 
> 
> Electricity is hideously expensive.



I think the costs for electricity has been coming down as the cost of natural gas has been dropping. Rate reductions for gas and electricity have been happening. As more natural gas is produced this may or may not continue. So not sure what would motivate the move of broadcasting from the ESB to the Trade Center other than PR. Since we keep hearing that Broadcasters don't really care about us not sure why they would make the move.


----------



## SnellKrell

Broadcasters' interest in OTA will be motivated by the adoption of M/H -

transmission of signals to mobile devices.


That's truly the future of OTA broadcasting!


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21957205
> 
> 
> Broadcasters' interest in OTA will be motivated by the adoption of M/H -
> 
> transmission of signals to mobile devices.
> 
> 
> That's truly the future of OTA broadcasting!



Sorry for being so clueless, but what does M/H mean?


----------



## DTVintermods

M/H reception favors lower gain transmitting antenna on a lower tower in order to deliver the very strong signal required for solid M/H [Mobile/Hand-held]reception within the first few miles of the transmitting antenna. High gain TV transmit antenna on tall tower delivers very weak signal within 2 miles of the tower.

So moving from ESB to 1WTC for the purpose of better M/H reception would be a gross mistake without a new DTV std that supports SFN for M/H.


----------



## SnellKrell

No problem, it's relatively new to me -


Mobile/Handheld - Smartphones, iPads, etc.


----------



## Solfan

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh46Fx-y-6A


----------



## ALP

I got a Winegard HD7696P antenna installed on a 16 foot mast (10 feet of the mast is above the roof line, it is a wall mount). I ran a 20 foot lead of Belden 1694A into my existing drop amp. Got excellent reception of all network channels in the NYC area. I have a small Sharp HDTV that has an Signal Strength readout for each channel. All channels are between 85% to 93% (not sure what the definition of 100% is on the TV readout, but all channels have great PQ). Basically I aimed the antenna due south, minor changes of about 5 degrees in rotation had no effect on signal strength. I also bought a Winegard AP-8275 pre-amp, but have not used it at all. Tested the signal strength between right off of the antenna and after going through the 8 branch drop amp I have (I only use 5 of the drops) and the signal strength is the same before and after the drop amp. From the stand point of reception I hope I am good.


I am now trying to understand what to do about grounding. I have a surge protector (a TII Series 212 that includes a ground block, was recommended by the place I got the drop amp from) before the drop amp on the coax, however, I am using the ground wire that Cablevision installed decades ago. It goes to an outdoor cold water faucet. I have been researching antenna grounding online and it is very confusing. Most diagrams seem to indicate the surge protector and the mast should be grounded to the house electrical service ground stake. My problem is my electrical service comes in underground and I have no idea where the service is grounded. I am leaning towards driving in a ground stake and grounding the mast and surge protector to the stake using number 8 wire. Any help on this grounding stuff would be very welcomed.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got a Winegard HD7696P antenna installed on a 16 foot mast (10 feet of the mast is above the roof line, it is a wall mount). I ran a 20 foot lead of Belden 1694A into my existing drop amp. Got excellent reception of all network channels in the NYC area. I have a small Sharp HDTV that has an Signal Strength readout for each channel. All channels are between 85% to 93% (not sure what the definition of 100% is on the TV readout, but all channels have great PQ). Basically I aimed the antenna due south, minor changes of about 5 degrees in rotation had no effect on signal strength. I also bought a Winegard AP-8275 pre-amp, but have not used it at all. Tested the signal strength between right off of the antenna and after going through the 8 branch drop amp I have (I only use 5 of the drops) and the signal strength is the same before and after the drop amp. From the stand point of reception I hope I am good.
> 
> 
> I am now trying to understand what to do about grounding. I have a surge protector (a TII Series 212 that includes a ground block, was recommended by the place I got the drop amp from) before the drop amp on the coax, however, I am using the ground wire that Cablevision installed decades ago. It goes to an outdoor cold water faucet. I have been researching antenna grounding online and it is very confusing. Most diagrams seem to indicate the surge protector and the mast should be grounded to the house electrical service ground stake. My problem is my electrical service comes in underground and I have no idea where the service is grounded. I am leaning towards driving in a ground stake and grounding the mast and surge protector to the stake using number 8 wire. Any help on this grounding stuff would be very welcomed.



Using the old cablevision ground block and wire should be fine. Cable companies ground to cold water if no solid electrical conduit is available.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Solfan* /forum/post/21963381
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh46Fx-y-6A



Wow I would ecstatic to watch that happen in person!


----------



## speedlaw

Don't be so quick to use an amp. You are not far, so if your location is at least decent, you may not need the amp-better a slightly bigger antenna and no amp. I run five devices off one antenna with no amp (six counting the stereo). I'm one or two towns north of you and with a fringe antenna, a bit more than I need, no amp. Amps bring in another layer of complication. Your signal strength should be adequate without.


----------



## LenL

Alp,


If you get great reception without the preamp then return it.


Also grounding of an outdoor antenna from my research is very important. You do need to ground 2 items. First you need to ground the MAST by running wire from the mast to a metal rod driven into the ground. You can buy the wire, rod and appropriate clamps at your local hardware store. Just be very careful where you drive the rod into the ground that you don't hit a gas line etc.


Next you need to ground the coax before it comes into the house. You can use the Cablevision ground for the coax.


There is information on the internet you can easily find that will tell you how important this grounding is and how to do it. Your surge protectors in the house are just one level of protection that you need.


----------



## LenL

Malibu Lighting emailed me that they are shipping new patio lights that their engineer has fixed for RF emissions. I expect them to arrive this week. As soon as my neighbor installs them I will post whether the RF interference issue has been fixed.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> First you need to ground the MAST by running wire from the mast to a metal rod driven into the ground.



There are permissible alternatives to a separate ground rod if the situation permits. Usually, a separate rod is NOT needed.


In the event a separate ground rod is used, it must be properly bonded to the home's ground electrode system IAW the requirements of the NEC or local codes.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/21970240
> 
> 
> There are permissible alternatives to a separate ground rod if the situation permits. Usually, a separate rod is NOT needed.
> 
> 
> In the event a separate ground rod is used, it must be properly bonded to the home's ground electrode system IAW the requirements of the NEC or local codes.



I haven't found a single instance in my part of Jersey where the outdoor antennas were grounded by anything other than a metal rod in the ground. They were (are) not grounded to the house electrical system. I'm not sure how many homeowners or installers ever did this. Perhaps Cable companies did this but at my house I have NO evidence that Cablevsion did this. In this piece there is good basic info on grounding:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/21970240
> 
> 
> There are permissible alternatives to a separate ground rod if the situation permits. Usually, a separate rod is NOT needed.
> 
> 
> In the event a separate ground rod is used, it must be properly bonded to the home's ground electrode system IAW the requirements of the NEC or local codes.



Guys, This is exactly were my grounding concerns are. The best solution for me given where my antenna and drop amp are is to run ground wires to a separate ground rod. My question there is how long the rod should be, I have seen lengths from 4 to 8 feet online (I assume longer is better if you can get the rod to go in its full length). My biggest concern right now is how to tie that rod to my home electric service. As I mentioned above my electric service comes into my property and my house underground (no wires at the side of the house). Thus finding a ground rod at the side of my house is not an option. How do I tie-in to the house system ground?


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21970319
> 
> 
> I haven't found a single instance in my part of Jersey where the outdoor antennas were grounded by anything other than a metal rod in the ground. They were (are) not grounded to the house electrical system. I'm not sure how many homeowners or installers ever did this. Perhaps Cable companies did this but at my house I have NO evidence that Cablevsion did this. In this piece there is good basic info on grounding:
> 
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html



LenL, I have this link and I agree it is the best online article I have found so far. I am going to investigate my main service panel later today, I may find an acceptable way to tie into its ground. Will report back later.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

My information is from the 2008 NC. If you homes are older, then relaxed or different code rules may have been in effect. Honestly, I'd suspect that past installers probably were not required to adhere to NEC requirements nor had to deal with a building or electrical inspector.



Tony,


Depending on when your home was built and whether it had to comply with codes will often determine how the ground electrode system, if any, would have been implemented. Current NEC has a multitude of permissible methods including some that don't require a ground rod.


This is a task that falls into the realm of a licensed electrician, but, if you examine the neutral bus in your breaker panel, you should be able to figure out how the grounding is implemented since the neutral is supposed to be bonded the ground at or near the service entrance.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21970170
> 
> 
> Malibu Lighting emailed me that they are shipping new patio lights that their engineer has fixed for RF emissions. I expect them to arrive this week. As soon as my neighbor installs them I will post whether the RF interference issue has been fixed.



Hope these work for you. This is the never ending story. They should be selling these special lights and not have to make it special for you. But it is good they are working with you.


Guess they are afraid of the fcc


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21* /forum/post/21977799
> 
> 
> Hope these work for you. This is the never ending story. They should be selling these special lights and not have to make it special for you. But it is good they are working with you.
> 
> 
> Guess they are afraid of the fcc



I did ask if they tested the lights to verify they gave off RF interference before and then after the fix the lights did not give off RF interference. I never got a response. So what does that tell me?


Also you would think that they would fix the LED product line and simply ship the new product as a replacement and not have to special fix an existing faulty product just for me?


It will be interesting to see what the results are.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/21970388
> 
> 
> LenL, I have this link and I agree it is the best online article I have found so far. I am going to investigate my main service panel later today, I may find an acceptable way to tie into its ground. Will report back later.



Keep us posted. I know one professional antenna installer who does not even bother with grounding as his view is if your house gets a direct hit nothing will help you anyway or be left of your house.


I still feel better doing something extra.


----------



## ALP

OK, A little background on my house. It was built in 1973 with an addition added in 1991. It was built by an architect for himself and his family, so the house is pretty well constructed. The main electric service panel is in the lowest level which is a family room with a mechanical / laundry room at the rear of the floor. The breaker box sits in an enclosure that also has the phone service box, the intercom box and the alarm box (added later). Some of this stuff that would normally be outside the house (such as the phone box) is inside because all of my utilities come into the house underground. I can see where the main electric service line comes into the enclosure and it is about 4 feet below ground (my electric meter, which is outside, is on a retaining wall and it is below the main ground level as well). The 200 amp service line has two large (I think gauge 2) wires that carry the 240V / 200 amp service to the house. These two wires have a large multi strand aluminum shield covering them which is twisted and tied to the main ground bus after the main line enters the breaker box. I see no evidence of any connection to a ground rod anywhere that I can see.


Interestingly there is an aluminum wire in a white casing (gauge 6, I think) that is also connected to the main ground bus and it then goes upwards through the outer wall. When the house was built the in wall wiring included an old twin lead antenna distribution system (the higher quality twin lead that had extra insulation on it). In an upstairs closet there is a really old distribution box for the antenna system. I wonder if the white ground wire was for the original antenna on the house before the days of cable?


I plan to see if I can get my wire snake from the point were the main line goes back underground from the meter to the point where the main line enters the panel enclosure. If I can I will see if I can the pull a large wire from the outside to the panel and connect it to the ground bus there. This wire would then go to the ground rod that I hope to install for the mast ground wire soon. More later.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

It has been reported on the Radio-Info.com NYC TV forum that Time Warner Cable in New York City placed an advertisement in the New York Daily News announcing that two new channels will be available on their system effective June 6, 2012:


144 - Me-TV

192 - Azteca TV


Earlier on April 26, 2012, nyctveng reported the following here on AVS Forum:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng* /forum/post/21953830
> 
> 
> WPIX is dropping Estrella in May



I have been unable to confirm either via Time Warner Cable, Me-TV, or Azteca whether this information is accurate.


However, if all this information is correct, the speculation discussed *HERE* is likely coming to fruition.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It has been reported on the Radio-Info.com NYC TV forum that Time Warner Cable in New York City placed an advertisement in the New York Daily News announcing that two new channels will be available on their system effective June 6, 2012:
> 
> 
> 144 - Me-TV
> 
> 192 - Azteca TV
> 
> 
> Earlier on April 26, 2012, nyctveng reported the following here on AVS Forum:
> 
> 
> I have been unable to confirm either via Time Warner Cable, Me-TV, or Azteca whether this information is accurate.
> 
> 
> However, if all this information is correct, the speculation discussed HERE is likely coming to fruition.



TWC may choose to pick up Estrella via alternative means as they did when WPIX dropped LATV a couple of years back. I believe TWC's carriage of Azteca and MeTv will be thru subchannels of WMBC and WSAH respectively.


----------



## NYC

Here is link to Time Warner's website containing the full text of the ad that ran in the Legal Notices section of the New York Daily News on Wednesday, May 2, 2012 on page 58. The portion about MeTV and Azteca is just a bit below the halfway point.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/...alnotices.html


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

NYC, thank you very much for posting that picture










The specific portion of the legal notice reads as follows:


> Quote:
> On or about June 6, 2012 we will launch Azteca TV on ch. 192 and MeTV on ch. 144. Azteca TV will be part of our DTV en Español and El Paquetazo service offering. MeTV will be a basic service available only in digital format and viewable with digital cable-compatible equipment such as a digital converter or a digital television (or other device) that includes a QAM tuner and Signature View will be part of our DTV service offering.



It is interesting to note that Azteca is referred to as Azteca TV and not Azteca America, the service presently available over WMBC-DT6. It is also interesting to note that this added channel will not be included as a "basic service" offering. Based on these facts, it appears unlikely that the WMBC-TV Newton subchannel - or any broadcast TV station for that matter - will be the source of this service.


As to Me-TV, that service will definitely be provided via a New York market OTA broadcast TV station. Unfortunately, as is often the case with cable TV providers, they refer to the new channel only by name without including the call-sign. I concur that given the present circumstances, WSAH-TV Bridgeport is the likely station, but it is nonetheless interesting why it would have taken this long for them to demand carriage (likely) or negotiate retransmission consent (rather unlikely).


I still think it is not improbable that another broadcast TV station could begin carriage of Me-TV, especially when one such station's financially-troubled corporate owners are about to lose a revenue stream from a departing program provider.


One more observation: Given the language in the TWC legal notice, Weigel is not leasing a channel from TWC. The source of this program service will most definitely be a New York market OTA broadcast TV station.


The only remaining question is: Which one?


----------



## NYC

Estrella appears to be off of WPIX, as Antenna TV is on both 11.2 and 11.4.


On Cablevision, ch 115 still has Estrella as usual. However channel 114, Antenna TV, is blank with no sound. Go figure!


----------



## SnellKrell

Picking up an old topic, finally - the ESB will be converting its ornamental lighting to LEDs.


Last month's test appears to have helped management to make this fast decision.


The last major test was in April of 2007!


Here's the Link to the article:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...tate-building/ 


There's a video at the end of the article.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/21997328
> 
> 
> Picking up an old topic, finally - the ESB will be converting its ornamental lighting to LEDs.
> 
> 
> Last month's test appears to have helped management to make this fast decision.
> 
> 
> The last major test was in April of 2007!
> 
> 
> Here's the Link to the article:
> 
> http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...tate-building/
> 
> 
> There's a video at the end of the article.



So the ESB is going with LED's which may or may not produce RF interference? I hope I have this wrong.


----------



## LenL

Your update on this topic is much appreciated and could be very important to us OTA folks.


When I last posted on this topic I told people on this forum that I saw NO evidence that they did anything other than test LEDS. I did write to the ESB and asked about the tests and NEVER got a response.


Now comes the question. Never did they mention potential RF interfence in this story. I know there are engineers involved in this work so lets hope they are familiar with RF interference and have tested to make sure the broadcast of VHF signals is not impacted. Otherwise we will be severely impacted in the fall when they switch over.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21978946
> 
> 
> Keep us posted. I know one professional antenna installer who does not even bother with grounding as his view is if your house gets a direct hit nothing will help you anyway or be left of your house.
> 
> 
> I still feel better doing something extra.



As I get closer to the date when I will have to go OTA (5/15) I am a little nervous after reading some of the earlier post in this thread about variable signal strength. My initial test were done on a very clear day and I am now worried that with weather fade my reception may not be all that I hoped for.


I now have all the components (I hope) that I need to ground my system in a way that I believe will comply with NEC. I have got 6 AWG copper wire, a ground rod, clamps and standoffs. I drove the 8 foot rod 6 feet into the ground about 2 feet from the side of my house. I wanted to go in 7 feet but even after 50 or more blows with a sledge I could not get it down any further than 6 feet. When my wife returns from a business trip to help me with our big ladder and the weather permits (later this week, I hope) I will run a ground wire (6 AWG)from the surge protector and the antenna mast to the ground rod. I will also tie the ground rod to the main electrical panel ground bus using the 6 AWG wire. Please let me know if I have missed anything.


Then after checking everything out again I will remove the last section of my cable that connects to the Cablevision in feed cable and the old Cablevision ground wire. I sure hope this all works out OK.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/21997448
> 
> 
> Your update on this topic is much appreciated and could be very important to us OTA folks.
> 
> 
> When I last posted on this topic I told people on this forum that I saw NO evidence that they did anything other than test LEDS. I did write to the ESB and asked about the tests and NEVER got a response.
> 
> 
> Now comes the question. Never did they mention potential RF interfence in this story. I know there are engineers involved in this work so lets hope they are familiar with RF interference and have tested to make sure the broadcast of VHF signals is not impacted. Otherwise we will be severely impacted in the fall when they switch over.



Len, ABC is in the VHF band, I cannot imagine they are going to be happy if their broadcast signal is corrupted by LED produced RFI. It is possible that with the rush to be "green" and lower electric cost that this got overlooked, but let's hope they ran some test to be sure switching on the LED's dies not harm any of their other systems such as broadcast TV.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/21997538
> 
> 
> Len, ABC is in the VHF band, I cannot imagine they are going to be happy if their broadcast signal is corrupted by LED produced RFI. It is possible that with the rush to be "green" and lower electric cost that this got overlooked, but let's hope they ran some test to be sure switching on the LED's dies not harm any of their other systems such as broadcast TV.



If they have already experimented with LED fixtures on ESB, as the picture seems to indicate, has anyone traced DTV interference to this testing? (I realize that complete conversion could create more interference than just the test fixtures.)


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/21997667
> 
> 
> If they have already experimented with LED fixtures on ESB, as the picture seems to indicate, has anyone traced DTV interference to this testing? (I realize that complete conversion could create more interference than just the test fixtures.)



I believe the testing was done in 2007 BEFORE the digital conversion. I could be wrong, I am not sure and did not check the previous discussion about it on this forum. My ancient memory may be failing me.


----------



## LenL

Clear or cloudy days are not really predictors of reception from my experience. There are cloudy and rainy days where I have had great reception and days without a cloud where my reception has been only fair.


Don't worry about it too much. There is a site that give troposhere reports that many say helps them predict reception issues. You can easily google it.


----------



## R.F. Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC* /forum/post/21996862
> 
> 
> Estrella appears to be off of WPIX, as Antenna TV is on both 11.2 and 11.4.
> 
> 
> On Cablevision, ch 115 still has Estrella as usual. However channel 114, Antenna TV, is blank with no sound. Go figure!




11-2 is now Antenna TV. 11-4 is off the air. I supppose that means possible increasd bandwidth now that they've lost on sub channel.


----------



## George Molnar

Has anyone heard them say a decision was made not to include the TV mast on the new WTC?


A Chicago station had a news story that without the TV mast, the new WTC would not be taller than Sears/Willis and Trump Tower in Chicago.


----------



## SnellKrell

The question is whether the antenna mast would be sheathed within an architectural

spire. If it is, the "official" keepers of building heights would consider the spire/mast part of the building's overall height. To save money, the building's owners are now talking about just an antenna mast without the spire sheath. That would then not count in the building's height. That's the latest.


----------



## DTVintermods

The radome has been nixed. The official reason being that it would be too difficult to maintain but I believe there were other issues, mechanical and electrical.

The spire will be built, but the only committed antennas I'm aware of are communication/microwave antennas at the base of the spire.

The broadcasters face financial and technical considerations on 1WTC.

On the technical side, not all broadcasters can be certain that their channel will be kept after the repacking so they cannot optimize their antennas, because the channel/height/gain is critical for the few miles around the building, especially for mobile and hand-held devices.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods* /forum/post/22014555
> 
> 
> The radome has been nixed. The official reason being that it would be too difficult to maintain but I believe there were other issues, mechanical and electrical.
> 
> The spire will be built, but the only committed antennas I'm aware of are communication/microwave antennas at the base of the spire.
> 
> The broadcasters face financial and technical considerations on 1WTC.
> 
> On the technical side, not all broadcasters can be certain that their channel will be kept after the repacking so they cannot optimize their antennas, because the channel/height/gain is critical for the few miles around the building, especially for mobile and hand-held devices.



From what I've been able to research, the reason that the sheath has been eliminated has to do with cost - a saving of approximately $20 million.


I doubt that after all these years that "mechanical and electrical" issues were

truly the problems. From the very beginning of the building's design, Daniel Libeskind had the concept that a spire should top the structure reaching 1776feet - hence its first name "Freedom Tower." The spire from the very onset of the project was designed to meet broadcast industry's needs.


As of this time, the "spire" will not be built - an antenna will be built.


It's the Council on Tall Buildings & Urban Habitat, an international body that sets the standards of what is and what is not counted in the total height of a building. Spires are part of the architecture of a building - an antenna is not.


It's a pity that after all the delays, squabbles and politics that the Durst Organization is nickle and diming the project and preventing some well deserved civic pride in New Yorkers once again having the country's tallest building!


----------



## SubaruB4

WCBS 2.2 seems to be out of sync?


Also for the antenna on 1WTC I wonder how much more it will help with the elevation.


----------



## SnellKrell

The problems with this station go deeper than being out of sync.


Frames are missing from the picture - there's a jerkiness - look at scenes that fade from one to the other - totally screwed up!


No one at WCBS is minding the store!


Ther president of the CBS Stations Division, who is also the president of Channel 2,

has been informed of 2.2's problems for months - and nothing has been done!


When the station first swtiched to 16:9 aspect ratio, the picture has been distorted.


If 4.2 can at least technically get its 16:9 act together, where's WCBS?


The station is a disgrace coming from the flagship of the CBS Television Network!


----------



## SubaruB4

Ok I thought it was just me with the frames because my signal can go crazy when the wind is blowing.. It's a shame really.. I really don't watch the station like that I just happened to know when a family member switched to it and told me about it.


----------



## SnellKrell

You're not missing anything!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22019114
> 
> 
> You're not missing anything!



CBS took what might have been a good idea and screwed it up. You would get more up to date news, weather and sports if you tuned in to 1010 wins or CBS 880 radio stations.


Lets say it is 11 PM and you wanted to get the scores for the Yankee and Mets games that ended an hour ago. Forget about it. YOu will find out about those games sometime around mid day the next day......if you are lucky.


----------



## dvdchance

And to think some on here were asking on an almost daily basis when this mess would start up.


----------



## SnellKrell

Be careful of what you wish for!


----------



## RichNorthNJ

1. I dislike reality tv intensely, & wasn't cbs' "Survivor" the one that started it all? I can not beLIEVE cbs is #1! I never ever watch it except for Comics Unleashed (old rerun show) & certain 60 minutes segments that interest me, & this season's 60 min has been the worse - i maybe watched 4 or 5 segments. This channel has no PRO--> baseball or basketball (remember free NBA on CBS?) or hockey, virtually no movies - I checked last saturday afternoon - several infomercials & NO SPORTS!!

Even their flagship wcbs radio station is annoying, repeating "wcbs" a million times over & over way too often, & way too many commercials. Current Hawaii 5-0 is a FAR CRY from the 60's classic - to think i watched soooo many programs on this channel in the 60's & now it's virtually useless to me.

News news news! Thank goodness for THIS network & antenna tv.

2. WNET newark is the closest tv station to me - I am in Garfield NJ. So how come channel 13.1 sometimes comes in & sometimes not? No pattern I can't figure out when it goes out - has nothing to do with the weather. How could this channel so close to me have so little power?







- even less than Hot tv 42.3 lol. & they expect me to support it? Nope - I'll support WNJN 50.1. That always comes in with my rabbit ears. Sorry WNET & no on screen program description either.







& some movies with the F word in it!! Or they used to show those - I stopped watching after encountering 3 movies like that. DISGRACEFUL!!







WNJN & WLIW show no such movies. I hope wnet goes under - kids could be/have been watching!!


----------



## RichNorthNJ

WCBS 2.2 can hardly be viewed on my 19" tube set (which is STILL perfect for antenna tv, bounce, THIS & HOTTV channels.







)

Why is channel 2.2 such a NARROW RECTANGLE? - height is so short?

If I try to watch it on my 19" tube set in letterbox, it is VERY hard to see the small print - u gotta sit 2 feet in front of the screen
















& if I switch to full screen or zoom, the print on the right goes off the screen







- it barely fits on letterbox setting.









FOX is another winner - they love to put the football & other pro scorebox all the way to the left, so I can't see them in full screen mode.














even on 32" tube set.







Sister station MY9 & the other OTA channels do not do this







- they put the score box in the middle of the screen.









Man. if cbs & fox go off the air I will celebrate more than people who won the lottery.





















CK OUT ALL THE INFOMERCIALS ON FOX SATURDAY MORNING - GREAT FOR THE KIDS.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/22020929
> 
> 
> WCBS 2.2 can hardly be viewed on my 19" tube set (which is STILL perfect for antenna tv, bounce, THIS & HOTTV channels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Why is channel 2.2 such a NARROW RECTANGLE? - height is so short?
> 
> If I try to watch it on my 19" tube set in letterbox, it is VERY hard to see the small print - u gotta sit 2 feet in front of the screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> & if I switch to full screen or zoom, the print on the right goes off the screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - it barely fits on letterbox setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FOX is another winner - they love to put the football & other pro scorebox all the way to the left, so I can't see them in full screen mode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> even on 32" tube set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sister station MY9 & the other OTA channels do not do this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - they put the score box in the middle of the screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man. if cbs & fox go off the air I will celebrate more than people who won the lottery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CK OUT ALL THE INFOMERCIALS ON FOX SATURDAY MORNING - GREAT FOR THE KIDS.



For CRT TV we use the ZOOM feature on the converter. Yes you lose some of the sides. Yest you can then see a full screen. It is a compromise.


----------



## ALP

I am now officially OTA, just called Cablevision and told them to discontinue my basic cable TV service (which will require a cable box starting tomorrow). So far all seems well, my antenna (which I fully grounded this last weekend) delivers all of the major broadcast channels to all of my TV's and DVR's. Will have to see how this all goes with weather changes and other atmospheric events. I hope it continues to go well.


----------



## LenL

Welcome to the OTA club! You have a better picture at a better price!


You may get some hiccups with the pictue now and then but you will never miss cable!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/22020831
> 
> 
> 1. I dislike reality tv intensely, & wasn't cbs' "Survivor" the one that started it all? I can not beLIEVE cbs is #1! I never ever watch it except for Comics Unleashed (old rerun show) & certain 60 minutes segments that interest me, & this season's 60 min has been the worse - i maybe watched 4 or 5 segments. This channel has no PRO--> baseball or basketball (remember free NBA on CBS?) or hockey, virtually no movies - I checked last saturday afternoon - several infomercials & NO SPORTS!!
> 
> Even their flagship wcbs radio station is annoying, repeating "wcbs" a million times over & over way too often, & way too many commercials. Current Hawaii 5-0 is a FAR CRY from the 60's classic - to think i watched soooo many programs on this channel in the 60's & now it's virtually useless to me.
> 
> News news news! Thank goodness for THIS network & antenna tv.
> 
> 2. WNET newark is the closest tv station to me - I am in Garfield NJ. So how come channel 13.1 sometimes comes in & sometimes not? No pattern I can't figure out when it goes out - has nothing to do with the weather. How could this channel so close to me have so little power?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - even less than Hot tv 42.3 lol. & they expect me to support it? Nope - I'll support WNJN 50.1. That always comes in with my rabbit ears. Sorry WNET & no on screen program description either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> & some movies with the F word in it!! Or they used to show those - I stopped watching after encountering 3 movies like that. DISGRACEFUL!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WNJN & WLIW show no such movies. I hope wnet goes under - kids could be/have been watching!!



Different strokes for different folks! Not everyone will have the same likes as you do with TV programming.


I love a lot of the programming on 2.1 even though I hate CBS mismanagement and miscommunication with us the viewers. I also love PBS.


----------



## RichNorthNJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/22021272
> 
> 
> Different strokes for different folks! Not everyone will have the same likes as you do with TV programming.
> 
> I love a lot of the programming on 2.1 even though I hate CBS mismanagement and miscommunication with us the viewers. I also love PBS.



I'm not sure how old you are, but I am 57 - a BIG sci fi fan.

If you are too young, you may have nothing to compare what's on tv

today vs say, what was on in the 60's, when there was no cable or many channels - only 3 major ones - that's all u needed - & all free.

& when I think of CBS, the 1st thing that pops into my head is THIS show - especially THIS episode. The theme music is unforgettable & so unique - done by the incomparable John Williams who did Star Wars. This episode & music is FOREVER in my head - geez - that ship & that robot!








http://www.hulu.com/watch/170/lost-i...0,vepisode,1,0 


That's the problem with many tv shows & even movies today - many have virtually no real unique theme music on the opening AND CLOSING credits. NO creativity!! & any music used throughout is hardly unique.

But when you watched 60's shows, especially the ORIGINAL star trek & what's below you knew what show it was immediately from the music thoughout!!! Sci fi overload in the 60's - 1971:


The longest opening in tv history? great theme music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My_85FhMat8 


Or if you are a trekkie - ck these ties to cbs's great "mission impossible" show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVoONCKhQQg 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4FHXcnZS3Y 


this scared the heck out of me when i was a kid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTXGNo9W4WA 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOLGrXOtuwQ 


besides space ghost & the jetsons, I loved this

Mach 5: What Does This Button Do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJFBFQxO9pQ 

fav episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Zfaw-xYjk 

http://www.hulu.com/watch/13072/the-...0,vepisode,1,0 

http://www.hulu.com/watch/2601/voyag...sky-is-falling 


Mission Impossible surprise guest star!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92003Qc5KY8 


the rarely seen pilot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkZPbRUqcrY 


The Avengers Series 5 Opening Titles and Closing Credits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeK3Lkd_XL4 

& countless other shows all genre's -

ALL WITH A THEME MUSIC ONE WOULD RECOGNIZE 40 YEARS LATER!

Unfortunately, the irwin allen shows got silly after the 1st season cause they had to compete with campy Batman 1966.


----------



## SubaruB4

I'm watching WPIX right now.. And watching Family guy.. I don't think it was a spoof of family guy but you never know..


Anyways this huge ad for Cellino & Barnes came up on the lower third and it was not transparent it was a black bar. Does Wpix inject ads like that during programming?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yup!


----------



## SubaruB4

Wow.. this is by far the worst ad injection I've seen.. it's worst then those pop up animated ads. it was almost half the screen!


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, the station has been doing this type of thing for many, many months. A while ago, I remember a Ford car driving across the screen while program content was playing.


It's ridiculous - more people should complain to the station!


----------



## Bassman60

I'm fairly new to cutting the cable cord, so please excuse any ignorance. I live in Queens, NYC and was getting ION on channels 31.1 thru 31.3. But on the last few days I have not been getting it and when I rescan my mythtv I find it on the repeater channels, 12.1 thru 12.3. This would not be an issue except that schedulesdirect has WPXN listings on channels 31.1 thru 31.3. I have also tested this using the hdhomerun program for checking reception.


What would explain this? I get pretty good reception on other channels and am generally happy with OTA reception.


Thanks!


----------



## SnellKrell

31.1 - 31.3, and 12.1 - 12.3 all coming in loud and clear!


----------



## T-Max

I have virtually NO reception of MY9 at the moment. Last time I watched it was 4/23 and reception was very good. Same on 4/10.


My reception of 11 and 13 are very good right now (better than usual).


My 7.1 reception seems about the same (strong).


I've read the last couple of pages and know about the ESB / LED situation. Don't know if it's been done yet and if so, whether or not that might account for my very poor MY9 reception.


I realize that 7, 11 and 13 are VHF, while MY9 is UHF, but that's the current situation.


----------



## Bassman60




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22026638
> 
> 
> 31.1 - 31.3, and 12.1 - 12.3 all coming in loud and clear!



I'm still not getting it. I'll try moving the antenna tomorrow. Although my other stations around 31 are working fine.


My 9 is working fine in Queens.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

I'd have to call any fear about exterior LED lighting on the ESB causing interference with TV transmissions and and that any individual's reception problems are related "unfounded".


I was going to say "silly", but I decided to be diplomatic.


----------



## yobiworld

Any new channels coming?


----------



## LenL

Just to keep you informed of my ongoing LED issue. The "fixed" LED patio/walkway lights were shipped and received by my neighbor. As soon as they are installed I will let you folks know if the RF interference and my reception issues have been resolved.


As a reminder these lights are not normal production out of the box but were first shipped to an engineer somewhere who modified them then sent them to my customer service rep who then shipped them to us. We shall see.


What this also means is that they have not fixed the issue with their normal production run of these lights.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NYC, thank you very much for posting that picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The specific portion of the legal notice reads as follows:
> 
> 
> It is interesting to note that Azteca is referred to as Azteca TV and not Azteca America, the service presently available over WMBC-DT6. It is also interesting to note that this added channel will not be included as a "basic service" offering. Based on these facts, it appears unlikely that the WMBC-TV Newton subchannel - or any broadcast TV station for that matter - will be the source of this service.



Thanks to Berk32 for this info from TWC forum, looks like Azteca will be from WMBC:



May 16, 2012


For customers with cable ready TV's and TV's directly connected to cable ("direct hookups") we ceased carriage of TV Guide.


The previously scheduled rebrand of Planet Green will now occur on May 24, 2012.


On or about May 30, 2012 we will cease carriage of Media Korea TV.


Azteca America, previously announced to launch on June 6, 2012 will be a basic service available only in digital format and viewable with digital cable-compatible equipment such as a digital converter or a digital television (or other device) that includes a QAM tuner.


The following services, previously scheduled to launch on May 23, 2012 will now launch on June 27, 2012: Israeli Network on ch. 529, RTR Planeta on ch. 530, Rossiya on ch. 516, Vremya on ch. 520, Musika Pervogo on ch. 517, Dom Kino on ch. 518, UTV Movies on ch. 565 and MYX on ch. 537. As a reminder these services will be part of our International Premium offering.


Also on that date we will launch Sports Extra 3 on ch. 418 and Sports Extra 4 on ch. 419. These services will be part of our Sports Pass offering.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89* /forum/post/22028482
> 
> 
> I'd have to call any fear about exterior LED lighting on the ESB causing interference with TV transmissions and and that any individual's reception problems are related "unfounded".
> 
> 
> I was going to say "silly", but I decided to be diplomatic.



You probably should have stuck with "silly."


Why bother trying to be diplomatic, especially when you take the time to point out how your first instinct was to be "less diplomatic."


Sounds kinda like when people say "I hope you don't take this the wrong way..."


Or how about "It's not about the money."


But I digress.


As to my problem, I figure it's due to only 3 possible causes:


1) The new LED lighting (but that would be silly)

2) Some problem or change in MY9's situation

3) The tree that's directly in line with my NYC LOS.


My equipment hasn't changed at all, so I doubt it's any kind of problem in that regard. The tree in my LOS has now grown to the point where its upper two shoots have more or less completely blocked my LOS when they are fully "leafed out." Back on 4-10 and 4-23 I don't think the leaves were anywhere near as thick as they are now. Up to this year I was able to set the antenna in the gap between the two shoots. But they've now filled out to the point where that gap is really no longer there.


The tree is perhaps 50-75 feet from the antenna. It's a "swamp maple" which is kinda fast-growing with fairly large leaves that pretty thickly populate the tree and thus form a pretty good LOS blockage.


And, of course, the leaves were nice and wet last night. I suppose that didn't help.


The only other point I'd note in regard to that tree is that I _think_ I used to know that it would pose more of a problem with VHF than UHF. But maybe I've got that backwards?


As I said before, my VHF reception seems unaffected by the tree. So if I have it right, and not backwards, it doesn't seem like the tree would be the source of my recent poor MY9 reception (RF 38).


It was really VERY poor reception last night. And it seems the same today as well. Last month I had a very solid 84 with virtually no drops below 84 and the occasional pop up to 85. Now it's really mostly zero with jumps up to 81 for 3-5 seconds, then back down to zero. I doubt I'd even be able to lock it on a rescan.


Frankly, it's now about the same as 5.1 reception (RF 44), which has been this way forever. Since 9.1 and 5.1 are "related" (on the same antenna?) I'm thinking either something has changed with MY9 since my last foray on 4-23, or it's that freaking tree.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bassman60* /forum/post/22027106
> 
> 
> ...My 9 is working fine in Queens.



Thanks for the feedback. I'm right on the edge of MY9 reception out here so I wouldn't expect those much closer in to see any significant change unless MY9 was having some sort of major problem. It wouldn't take much of a change to drastically affect my reception.


----------



## SnellKrell

Concerning transmitting antennas - 5.1 uses its own. While 9.1 is part of the UHF Combiner facility on ESB along with WCBS and WNBC.


----------



## ADTech

Wet leaves will cause unpredictable reception, especially pronounced on UHF frequencies. When they blow in the wind, the effect is aggravated.


I found an interesting article from a UK installer that was published in 1990 regarding UHF and trees. It's an interesting read! http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/referen...-reception.pdf


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ADTech* /forum/post/22029857
> 
> 
> Wet leaves will cause unpredictable reception, especially pronounced on UHF frequencies. When they blow in the wind, the effect is aggravated....





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22029713
> 
> 
> Concerning transmitting antennas - 5.1 uses its own. While 9.1 is part of the UHF Combiner facility on ESB along with WCBS and WNBC.



Well, I guess I had the VHF/UHF thing backwards.


I'd say the problem is the tree except that my reception of 4.1 (RF 28) and 2.1(RF 33) seems just fine. RF 28 is coming in @ a very solid 84-85 while Rf 33 is coming in at a very solid 87-88.


Meanwhile, RF 38 continues to bounce between zero and 81, never staying on 81 for more than one or two seconds.


So I'm thinking it's something to do with MY9 rather than with my tree.


I'll monitor it for the next couple of days. If need be I can top the tree and eliminate that as a potential problem.


BTW, there was NO wind last evening. There is a nice breeze today but that doesn't seem to affect my reception of 4.1 or 2.1 at all.


----------



## AvidHiker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R.F. Burns* /forum/post/22012036
> 
> 
> 11-2 is now Antenna TV. 11-4 is off the air. I supppose that means possible increasd bandwidth now that they've lost on sub channel.



I'm pretty sure these SD channels do look a little cleaner now on my 59" plasma. Lovin' OTA from NYC.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22029713
> 
> 
> Concerning transmitting antennas - 5.1 uses its own. While 9.1 is part of the UHF Combiner facility on ESB along with WCBS and WNBC.



How do you find out where the actual broadcasting antenna is? I assumed that all the major channels (2, 4, 5, 7, 11 and 13) where all on the ESB. Is this wrong?


----------



## SnellKrell

All those channels plus 9 and more are located on the Empire State Building.


Go to this Web site and click on the New York City listing. You will find information including the location of each station's transmission facilities. As for those on the Empire State Building specifically, you will find at what height on the building each one is located.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22034631
> 
> 
> ...Go to this Web site and click on the New York City listing. You will find information including the location of each station's transmission facilities. As for those on the Empire State Building specifically, you will find at what height on the building each one is located.
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php



Comparing two stations I get at my location:


9-1 (38) WWOR-TV SECAUCUS, NJ 1007048 1434' DT‑CP MOD 1440' 355 kW ND


39-1 (39) WLVT-TV ALLENTOWN, PA 1031215 531' DT‑LIC 968' 52 kW DA


These two stations are broadcasting at RF's 38 and 39. respectively. MY9 is at a higher elevation and significantly more power (1440' / 355 kW) than WLVT (968' / 52 kW ), yet I get ch 39 very strong even when I'm not pointed directly at it, and now can't get MY9 at all.


I really don't get it. I know that there's a ridge that impairs my NYC reception, but should my MY9 reception really be this lousy?


Especially when I'm getting 4.1 and 2.1 just fine, as is also true with 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1?


I really just can't figure out what the deal is with MY9.


I tried emailing my engineer contact at FOX 5.1 but his email address appears to no longer be good.


I'm about 7 miles closer to the ESB than I am to WLVT's antenna at Bauer Rock, PA.


----------



## retiredengineer

Have you considered it might be a multipath issue? When they were building the twin towers in the 60's, 70's, there was a study done that concluded the towers would cause ghosting/multipath for signals from the ESB. So they moved the antennas to towers. It's possible it may be a multpath issue with the signals transmitting from the ESB.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer* /forum/post/22035972
> 
> 
> Have you considered it might be a multipath issue? ...



I dunno what it could be but I find it odd that the only two NYC stations I have problems with are 5.1 and 9.1, both owned by FOX (or whatever their connection / ownersip is). I've never been able to get 5.1 and now I can't get 9.1 (which I used to get on a rathar "iffy" basis) either.


They are at RF 44 and RF 38. As I say, I receive other stations (out of Philly or Allentown) at those approximate RF's with no issues.


Would multipath be more likely to affect RF 38 than RF 28 or RF 33? Also, wouldn't multipath tend to come and go? As it stands now, I seem to have a problem which remains consistent, or has for several days now. Reception was fine just 3-4 weeks ago but now it's virtually zero.


If you've seen my prior post, I do have a tree in my NYC LOS, but I really doubt that would be affecting only these "FOX stations." It seems to me that if it was the problem, it would likely be affecting my RF 33 station as well (2.1) and perhaps also my RF 28 station (4.1).


But those are fine.


7, 11 and 13 are VHF stations, so they presumably would be less affected (or unaffected?) by the tree. And they do come in just fine.


As it stands now, it looks like I'll have to try cutting those treetops. But I bet I'm just gonna end up being pissed off that I did


Because I bet it's not going to do a thing to improve my reception.


----------



## retiredengineer

Did you recent loss of 9.1 happen to coincide with the announcement that 1 World Trade Center is now taller than the ESB? If yes, that may be where your multipath signal is coming from. Not all TV stations are affected equally. It depends on the relative phase of the direct signal and the multipath signal. The worse case is when they are 180 deg. out of phase This is probably the situation with WPIX9.


Today's HDTV receivers can tolerate strong multipath signals but that is only true if your direct signal is stronger. Are you using a preamplifier with your antenna? The stronger the direct signal is, the better the receiver can compensate for the distortion caused by the multipath signal. If you are using a preamplifier, then the only thing left to do is to try your antenna at different spots.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer* /forum/post/22036260
> 
> 
> Did you recent loss of 9.1 happen to coincide with the announcement that 1 World Trade Center is now taller than the ESB? ....



Interesting thought. If it's not that then it either has to be my tree or something that's changed with 9.1 (which is WWOR a/k/a MY9)


According to Wikipedia, 1 WTC "has been the tallest building in New York since April 30, 2012."


So the time does match. Prior to this past Monday, the last time I tried MY9 reception was April 27 and it was very good then. I didn't tune to it again until last Monday, when it was no good (as it remains)


I guess maybe they set the spire on 1 WTC on 4/30? What else could they have done on that particular day that would have changed the height so dramatically?


So it does seem like maybe your thinking has nailed the cause. I really don't think my tree is the problem but I can't say for sure until I "elimate it from our inquiries" (as they say on all the British police shows).


If I do that, then it will be down to some change attributable to the station itself, or your theory.


You may indeed have nailed it. Thanks for the input in any event.


----------



## SnellKrell

As of this writing, there is no spire and will be no spire atop of 1WTC.


The current plan calls for an unsheathed antenna mast to be erected.


The steel girders for the top floors are now in place - the exterior of the building's

top floors still need to be installed.


----------



## MeatChicken




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RichNorthNJ* /forum/post/22020831
> 
> 
> 2. WNET newark is the closest tv station to me - I am in Garfield NJ. So how come channel 13.1 sometimes comes in & sometimes not? No pattern I can't figure out when it goes out - has nothing to do with the weather. How could this channel so close to me have so little power?



It's as "close" as every other NY station ..


WNET's main studios and offices are located in Midtown Manhattan...

The station's transmitter is on the Empire State Building.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22037593
> 
> 
> ...The steel girders for the top floors are now in place ....



Do you think it's possible that the building could have changed enough in the period from the end of the ballgame on April 27 to last Monday evening @ 7 pm (May 14) so that it could affect my reception as much as it's been affected?


That's really only 16 days total.


I still think it's not my tree and I have to wonder if it could be 1 WTC.


Which leaves only something attributable to MY9 itself.


Or maybe a tropo effect? I suppose it could be that (altho' it's been goin' on for 5 days now)


Although I suppose tropo would also affect other stations, and I am getting everything else just fine.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I dunno what it could be but I find it odd that the only two NYC stations I have problems with are 5.1 and 9.1, both owned by FOX (or whatever their connection / ownersip is). I've never been able to get 5.1 and now I can't get 9.1 (which I used to get on a rathar "iffy" basis) either.
> 
> 
> They are at RF 44 and RF 38. As I say, I receive other stations (out of Philly or Allentown) at those approximate RF's with no issues.
> 
> 
> Would multipath be more likely to affect RF 38 than RF 28 or RF 33? Also, wouldn't multipath tend to come and go? As it stands now, I seem to have a problem which remains consistent, or has for several days now. Reception was fine just 3-4 weeks ago but now it's virtually zero.
> 
> 
> If you've seen my prior post, I do have a tree in my NYC LOS, but I really doubt that would be affecting only these "FOX stations." It seems to me that if it was the problem, it would likely be affecting my RF 33 station as well (2.1) and perhaps also my RF 28 station (4.1).
> 
> 
> But those are fine.
> 
> 
> 7, 11 and 13 are VHF stations, so they presumably would be less affected (or unaffected?) by the tree. And they do come in just fine.
> 
> 
> As it stands now, it looks like I'll have to try cutting those treetops. But I bet I'm just gonna end up being pissed off that I did
> 
> 
> Because I bet it's not going to do a thing to improve my reception.



Before going thru the trouble and dangers of cutting down treetops, have you tried a preamp as many here have suggested?


----------



## retiredengineer

If you don't use a preamplifier when you have weak signals, you will lose some stations. See pictures I found on HDTVexpert's website.


----------



## Keith

Looks like Tonight I can pick up TV Stations from Philly !!


----------



## SnellKrell

When will someone with authority at WCBS finally wake up, take notice and care about the abomination that is 2.2?


The picture's aspect ratio has been distorted since day 1!


Until a moment ago, there was no audio this morning!


Doesn't anyone have any pride left at the Deuce?


If you're going to do something, do it right!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22046304
> 
> 
> When will someone with authority at WCBS finally wake up, take notice and care about the abomination that is 2.2?
> 
> 
> The picture's aspect ratio has been distorted since day 1!
> 
> 
> Until a moment ago, there was no audio this morning!
> 
> 
> Doesn't anyone have any pride left at the Deuce?
> 
> 
> If you're going to do something, do it right!



When the content makes it not worth watching? It simply repeats the same old stale news, weather and sports hour after hour! If you want to know yesterdays events today then I guess you would care about PQ. The problem with 2.2 goes far beyong PQ.


----------



## SnellKrell

I, and other discerning people do care about Picture Quality!


What 2.2 is doing is not really a question of quality - it has to do with the wrong buttons

being pushed causing the picture in full screen, 16:9 to be vertically squashed - and no one, including the head of CBS Owned Stations (also the head of Channel 2) can't take the time/or care to have this fixed.


----------



## LenL

No one at CBS is watching it either. That's why it isn't getting fixed. No one working for CBS is watching it. Few on this forum are watching it as you are the only one worked up over the PQ.


That should be a clue that it isn't worth being an issue for you and the few others who like to watch the same news, weather and sports over and over.


I think there are much bigger issues with OTA to worry about.


----------



## SnellKrell

LEDs?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22047654
> 
> 
> LEDs?



1. Stations discontinuing Broadcasting Subchannels

2. Stations reducing broadcast power

3. Stations going out of business

4. Stations moving transmitters

5. LED and other Interference

6. Broadcast content

7. PQ Quality


I'm sure others can add to the list


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/22050353
> 
> 
> 1. Stations discontinuing Broadcasting Subchannels
> 
> 2. Stations reducing broadcast power
> 
> 3. Stations going out of business
> 
> 4. Stations moving transmitters
> 
> 5. LED and other Interference
> 
> 6. Broadcast content
> 
> 7. PQ Quality
> 
> 
> I'm sure others can add to the list



FWIW, here are my thoughts on this thread:


I think the first four items are very good topics for this thread.


I also think that Number 7 is inherent in any discussion we have here. If anything on the transmitting end, the receiving end or in between either improves or degrades PQ then it is of paramount importance to all of us here.


I will comment on Number 6 as my final item.


The first four topics all deal with the transmission of the signal. I would include any topic that deals with the reception of the signal. This would include posts on antennas, tuners, preamps, distribution amps, cables and anything that either improves or degrades reception. When I say tuners I would like to see more information about which TV's and DVR's have tuners that work best with OTA where signal levels can be lower than they are with cable.


Finally I would like to suggest that we completely avoid any discussion of broadcast content in the thread. My reason for this is that discussion of broadcast content can often be controversial and the impact of broadcast content is not limited to OTA viewers but impacts cable and satellite viewers as well. I am not saying people should not discuss broadcast content, I just do not think it should be in this thread.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/22050353
> 
> 
> 1. Stations discontinuing Broadcasting Subchannels
> 
> 2. Stations reducing broadcast power
> 
> 3. Stations going out of business
> 
> 4. Stations moving transmitters
> 
> 5. LED and other Interference
> 
> 6. Broadcast content
> 
> 7. PQ Quality
> 
> 
> I'm sure others can add to the list



#1 and 7 conflict

Sub channels DESTROY picture quality


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/22050589
> 
> 
> I am not saying people should not discuss broadcast content, I just do not think it should be in this thread.



Local content is fair game for this and all local topics.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145* /forum/post/22050714
> 
> 
> #1 and 7 conflict
> 
> Sub channels DESTROY picture quality



Can you help me understand how sub channels destroy PQ? I am not sure if this is related but I wonder why Channels 2 and 4 broadcast in 1080i (and I think so does Channels 11 and 13), however, Channels 5 and 7 broadcast in 720p.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/22051776
> 
> 
> Can you help me understand how sub channels destroy PQ?



The expression 'there is only so much bandwidth in the ground' comes to mind, apologies to Tower Of Power.


Each Digital TV (DTV) station has a fixed data payload to broadcast with, and that number is 19.4 Mbps. Each subchannel must have at least some bandwidth and by default when you have more than one subchannel the others get less bandwidth.


Uncompressed HD video can have many, many times the bandwidth available to DTV stations, so it's already compressed drastically for broadcast. By allocating data to a second (or third) channel, it automatically reduces the data, and quality of the HD channel.



> Quote:
> I am not sure if this is related but I wonder why Channels 2 and 4 broadcast in 1080i (and I think so does Channels 11 and 13), however, Channels 5 and 7 broadcast in 720p.



720p & 1080i are both legitimate HD formats. Neither is inherently better than the other. When the DTV standards were being developed, one faction (computer oriented) felt the visual stability of 720 progressive video was better. The other faction (TV oriented) felt the higher resolution of 1080 interlaced video was better. To keep everyone happy, both formats were included in the standards. In general, 720p is considered better for fast moving images, while 1080i has more detail.


If done properly, both can look great.


----------



## SnellKrell

And the choice of 720p was made by FOX and ABC (including ESPN) because of their telecasting sports. As Ken mentioned - "720p is considered better for fast moving images..."


Although, for me, WCBS broadcasting NFL games using 1080i (at least before 2.2 showed up) provided gorgeous pictures.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22052264
> 
> 
> And the choice of 720p was made by FOX and ABC (including ESPN) because of their telecasting sports. As Ken mentioned - "720p is considered better for fast moving images..."
> 
> 
> Although, for me, WCBS broadcasting NFL games using 1080i (at least before 2.2 showed up) provided gorgeous pictures.



And that's a common opinion. On CBS affiliates with only an HD channel (no subchannels), CBS is considered the gold standard for televised HD sports.


Another often ignored consideration is individual perception of the different formats. Some people are simply more sensitive to interlaced artifacts, while others are more drawn to detail. There is no accounting for these preferences being right or wrong; all are legitimate. Or in other words, to each their own.


----------



## Ken H

Digital TV formats used by the major networks:


1080i

CBS

NBC

PBS

The CW


720p

ABC

FOX

My Network TV

ION


(Nationally, there are very limited exceptions to this list.)




For cable/DBS/Fiber/IPTV HD channels, the breakdown is approximately 75% 1080i and 25% 720p.


----------



## ALP

Guys, Thanks for all the good information, this really helps me understand better. I have to agree about CBS (even with 2.2) that their broadcast of NFL games is superior to that of Fox. I am not a super watch every game sports fan, but I am a huge NY Giants fan and I also follow the Jets, which means I usually see a CBS 1080i broadcast and a Fox 720p broadcast every Sunday in the fall and CBS looks better.


I wonder if this could be due to my TV and where I sit. The Pioneer 60" plasma that we have will do Dot by Dot for 1080i or p and this is the sharpest picture I can get on the set where as the 720p from Fox is displayed in a setting called "Auto". Also I forced us to sit just a little under 8 feet from the screen even though we could sit 20 feet away in the family room (my wife does not like the furniture arrangement for sitting at 8 feet, but she likes the PQ







) so that we could actually be close enough that the human eye can resolve 1080 lines and thus I think we notice the 1080 versus 720 difference more. These are both just speculation on my part, I have not done any experiments to verify either hypothesis.


----------



## DTVintermods

*CBS 2.2*

I believe this subchannel has been an experiment that proved to CBS that adding a mobile DTV stream by extracting another 2-5 Mbit/sec on top of the 2 Mbits/sec devoted to 2.2, is not in the cards if they want to keep sports PQ. Why they keep running 2.2 is a mystery.


----------



## SnellKrell

I believe that WCBS put 2.2 on the air because of the FCC's spectrum threat to stations - "use it or lose it!"


Until then, it was the only NYC major station without a sub-channel.


No wonder no one at the station cares about it!


----------



## Keith




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/22055579
> 
> 
> I believe that WCBS put 2.2 on the air because of the FCC's spectrum threat to stations - "use it or lose it!"
> 
> 
> Until then, it was the only NYC major station without a sub-channel.
> 
> 
> No wonder no one at the station cares about it!



what spectrum ?

They have a Digital signal using 6 Mhz, how can

the FCC tell them they must have at least 1 SubChannel ?


Does not make sense


----------



## SnellKrell

Complain to Washington, not me!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that WCBS put 2.2 on the air because of the FCC's spectrum threat to stations - "use it or lose it!"
> 
> 
> Until then, it was the only NYC major station without a sub-channel.
> 
> 
> No wonder no one at the station cares about it!



Sorry you couldn't be more wrong. Likely there was an internal push to get it on air then tweak later. Once the channel gains some cable carriage, expect the appearance and content to improve. Also CBS has been quite busy with the acquisition and integration of WLNY's operation which is a bigger priority over 2.2


Use it or lose it can probably apply to on air digital stations that use a small portion of their spectrum (no HD and little or no sub channels) Examples would be WLNY before acquired by CBS and WNYE being SD with 1 sub channel.


----------



## ALP

It looks like that since I have gone OTA my DVR clocks have drifted off by different amounts. What channel or setting are folks that are OTA from NYC (ESB) using to set their DVR clocks?


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/22059908
> 
> 
> It looks like that since I have gone OTA my DVR clocks have drifted off by different amounts. What channel or setting are folks that are OTA from NYC (ESB) using to set their DVR clocks?



What brand / model DVR are you referring to?


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/22060254
> 
> 
> What brand / model DVR are you referring to?



Magnavox MDR515H


----------



## Aero 1

My tivos alerted me of new channels in the area that i cant tune in:



12-1 WPXULD

12-2 WPXULD2

12-3 WPXULD3

23-3 WDVCD3


Guide data for 12-x is showing the exact data that ION 31-x has. a repeater of some sort?


23-3 has spanish guide data


----------



## Keith

WPXU 35-1 is located in North Carolina


----------



## Trip in VA

WPXU-LD 12 is in New York. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.p...=1425629&map=Y 


- Trip


----------



## LenL

My neighbor installed the replacement LED patio lights from Malibu and left them on for me to test my TV reception and the results were great! It looks like the issue is resolved!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/22070351
> 
> 
> My neighbor installed the replacement LED patio lights from Malibu and left them on for me to test my TV reception and the results were great! It looks like the issue is resolved!



Do you have a link on what these lights look like?


Glad they fixed it


----------



## LenL

Officially resolved as I was able to view all of the hi VHF channels last night.

The new lights look just like the old lights but an engineer made some modifications to the electronics. As a side note it looks like Home Depot no longer sells this model.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22029692
> 
> 
> ....As to my problem, I figure it's due to only 3 possible causes:
> 
> 
> 1) The new LED lighting (but that would be silly)
> 
> 2) Some problem or change in MY9's situation
> 
> 3) The tree that's directly in line with my NYC LOS....It was really VERY poor reception last night. And it seems the same today as well. Last month I had a very solid 84 with virtually no drops below 84 and the occasional pop up to 85. Now it's really mostly zero with jumps up to 81 for 3-5 seconds, then back down to zero. I doubt I'd even be able to lock it on a rescan....





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ADTech* /forum/post/22029857
> 
> 
> Wet leaves will cause unpredictable reception, especially pronounced on UHF frequencies. When they blow in the wind, the effect is aggravated....



At great risk of life and limb, I've now eliminated #3 from the equation.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22035852
> 
> 
> Comparing two stations I get at my location:
> 
> 
> 9-1 (38) WWOR-TV SECAUCUS, NJ 1007048 1434' DT‑CP MOD 1440' 355 kW ND
> 
> 
> 39-1 (39) WLVT-TV ALLENTOWN, PA 1031215 531' DT‑LIC 968' 52 kW DA
> 
> 
> These two stations are broadcasting at RF's 38 and 39. respectively. MY9 is at a higher elevation and significantly more power (1440' / 355 kW) than WLVT (968' / 52 kW ), yet I get ch 39 very strong even when I'm not pointed directly at it, and now can't get MY9 at all....I tried emailing my engineer contact at FOX 5.1 but his email address appears to no longer be good.
> 
> 
> I'm about 7 miles closer to the ESB than I am to WLVT's antenna at Bauer Rock, PA.



I am advised that MY9 is actually at 170kW at the present time and will not be at 355kW any time soon as there is no presently-scheduled completion date on the modified construction plan.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer* /forum/post/22036260
> 
> 
> Did you recent loss of 9.1 happen to coincide with the announcement that 1 World Trade Center is now taller than the ESB? If yes, that may be where your multipath signal is coming from. Not all TV stations are affected equally. It depends on the relative phase of the direct signal and the multipath signal. The worse case is when they are 180 deg. out of phase This is probably the situation with WPIX9.....



This issue would have made #4 on my 1st post above if I had known of it. But now that I've eliminated the tree issue, it's #3. That means my potential issues now are:


1) The new LED lighting (but that would be silly)

2) Some problem or change in MY9's situation

3) The new 1 WTC building


As to #2, I am now in email contact with the Director of Engineering at Fox and he has advised that there's been no change in the MY9 broadcast situation. So that would seem to eliminate #2 from the equation, leaving only the new LED lighting and the new 1 WTC building as possible causes of my problem.


My engineer contact made two suggestions to me:


1) _I believe that your reception issue is possibly related to the deciduous tree that is in your LOS, it makes sense that as soon as the leaves appeared on the trees, the signal degraded, especially for the UHF channels._


2) _There could be reflections from 1WTC that could add to the cancellation of signal strength due to multipath._


So I endeavored to eliminate his first suggestion from the equation. It actually was 2 trees that were involved: a swamp maple and a "pin oak." I climbed them because I chose to just top them off rather than cutting them down. I didn't have to climb too high into the maple to top it off, but the pin oak is pretty tall and I had to go waay up there to top it off. I've never been all that keen on heights but it's funny; once you're up there for awhile ya get pretty comfortable with it. I'd say I was a good 45 - 50 feet up. At first it felt like I was 200 feet up but after awhile it didn't seem like a big deal at all and I kinda liked it. I guess that's the attraction of tree houses (??)


So those treetops are now gone gone gone.


That leaves the possibilities as:


1) The LED lights on the ESB. I think we can eliminate that because I don't know why those lights wouldn't affect (for example) CBS at RF 33 or NBC at RF 28 as much as they'd impact MY9 at RF 38. So I'm thinking the lights can be eliminated.


2) The new 1 WTC building. This is still a viable possibility, I guess.


3) A change in MY9's situation. Despite the engineer's representation, I still find it hard to believe that something hasn't changed over there. Call me crazy, but I think this is the real cause. I mean, how much taller could 1 WTC have gotten from April 23 to May 15? And if 1 WTC isn't the cause of my problem, then what the heck is??


So, may I suggest that anyone else in NJ who's about as far out as I am (let's say I'm in Somerville) be kind enough to advise how your reception of MY9 is? If there's anyone else out there who's at my distance, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. And if you're in my approximate direction, I'd also really appreciate hearing from you.


Because I assume that any 1 WTC effect would affect all of us, no?


Let me close by noting that my MY9 reception is now VERY much different than ever before in the past, and certainly VERY VERY much different from what it was on April 10 and April 23. It's virtually nil now. I can't even lock it on a scan; and I've tried many times, both before and after topping the trees.


----------



## LenL

From my experience:


1. LEDS only impact VHF. So your my9 issue is probably not LED related.


2. I have had channels increase and lose signal strength throughout the year for months at a time for no apparant reason. For me 2.1 and 7.1 can be in the 90's some months and in the 70;s other months. Sometimes its when leaves are on trees and other times its when leaves are off trees. No connection can be found.


3.That being said, I look at my reception from last May and my CM4228 antenna was getting 9.1 close to 90% and now it is in the 60's. So something has happened. This is not an issue for me as I have 2 antennas in operation right now and the other antenna is picking it up much better.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/22072882
> 
> 
> .... I look at my reception from last May and my CM4228 antenna was getting 9.1 close to 90% and now it is in the 60's. So something has happened. This is not an issue for me as I have 2 antennas in operation right now and the other antenna is picking it up much better.



Len -


Thanks much for the feedback. From Google maps it looks like you're about the same distance away as I am but in a much different direction. If you look at the map at the 10 mi scale size, I'm basically at the "d" in Bridgewater. That is, I'm maybe 7-8 miles south of the intersection of Route 78 and Route 287, which can clearly be seen on any map.


So you've confirmed that something has changed from last May. I suppose it could be the "1 WTC effect" but I think that unlikely. And if that IS it, then given that I'd be more affected than you are, because 1 WTC is more in my LOS than in yours, then this represents a major impact.


And I can't imagine that 1 WTC could have any effect on you at all. Your LOS to the ESB should be clear of any effect from that building whereas I could see that it might interfere with my reception because it's probably more or less in my LOS to the ESB.


Still, I find it hard to believe that 1 WTC could have such a major change in my reception in such a short time frame. We're talking about 22 days from April 23, when I had very excellent reception, to May 15, when I had virtually no reception at all -- which is how it's continued to stay since then.


So I'm still thinking that it's something at the station's end. I never thought it could be the LED lights on the ESB but ya have to consider every possibility, I suppose.


I also never thought it was my treetops. But since they definitely were smack in my LOS for MY9 reception, I was thinking of taking those down anyway since I have always had difficulty with MY9 reception and I figured every little bit helps, no? And now I know that they really didn't have any effect on my NYC reception, at least not for either 5.1 or 9.1. And those are really the only stations that would be affected, at least for me. I never watch 2.1 (RF 33) and have no need for 4.1 (RF 28) either. I do have a need for 7.1 and 11.1 and (sometimes) 13. But those are all VHF and likely weren't going to be affected by the trees anyway.


So I topped my trees and it didn't help with my 9.1 reception at all. And thanks to your input, it seems that something indeed has changed rather dramatically at the station. That is, unless it's due to 1 WTC, which I seriously doubt.


BTW, I'm using an RS Model VU-190 XR antenna. It's a monster but has served me well. It pulls in everything except 5.1 and 9.1, which I attribute to the stations and not to my antenna.


I've seen your CM4228 so I know what that's about. What is the other antenna that's working so well for you with 9.1?


Thanks again for the good feedback. Much appreciated.


----------



## LenL

In addition to the CM4228, I built a number of antennas of various designs (M-Clapp and Grey Hoverman) and settled on the Grey Hoverman (GH) as working best for me and easy to build. So I built 2 GH antennas and installed them on masts below my CM4228. Then I decided that I only needed 1 GH to complement my CM4228. It pulls in some stations better than the CM4228 and having the CM4228 and 1 GH gives me enough reception to feed 3 TVs and 2 DVRS. The GH pulls in all the stations quite well except and in some cases better except for 5.1 which the CM4228 does much better. The GH is about 15-20 feet lower than the CM4228.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/22075265
> 
> 
> In addition to the CM4228, I built a number of antennas of various designs ....



Yes, I think you posted pictures of your 3 antennas back when (not sure when that was). I haven't looked for those pics but maybe I will when I get a moment.


It's interesting that the antenna that's pulling in MY9 better is also mounted lower than the CM4228.


Go figure, huh?


----------



## LenL

Yes it does not make sense that the CM4228 is highrer and lost a lot of MY9 signal and the lower antenna is fine.


However from my experience a lot of OTA reception issues do not make sense. Since the start of the digital TV era till today my reception with my CM4228 has been all over the place with channels 2.1, 4.1, 7.1 and 9.1. I can go for months with reception in the upper 80's to mid 90's and other times reception can get into the 70's and lower.


The only station that has consistently been in the 90's has been 5.1. I never had an issue with it no matter the season or weather since the start of digital TV. Same antenna on my house, never moved and tansmissions are from the ESB...it hasn't moved and yet there are changes to reception.


----------



## LenL

Let me add that there have been changes between our line of sight to the ESB and our antennas. I'm sure cell phone towers or other buildings have gone up that may be coming into play. Don't know for sure but it is possible.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/22078916
> 
> 
> Let me add that there have been changes between our line of sight to the ESB and our antennas. I'm sure cell phone towers or other buildings have gone up that may be coming into play. Don't know for sure but it is possible.



It could also be a billboard or something else. If you have any wiggle room, move your antenna up/down/left/right while watching the strength number on your TV. At UHF frequencies, it only takes a few inches to make a big difference between phase addition and phase cancellation. Look for a sweet spot where all stations are good, but you may have to compromise really high numbers on some channels to get acceptable reception on problem channels.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL* /forum/post/22078916
> 
> 
> Let me add that there have been changes between our line of sight to the ESB and our antennas....



By "our" I assume you are including me in your scenario.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/22079238
> 
> 
> It could also be a billboard or something else.... At UHF frequencies, it only takes a few inches to make a big difference between phase addition and phase cancellation.....



Again, my situation appears to be pretty simple factually. I had very good reception of this one station on April 10 and April 23. I then next tried it again on May 15, which is 22 days later. Reception was (and remains) zilch.


I don't think there were any cell phone towers or billboards or increases in height to 1 WTC that occurred in that time period which would account for the dramatic reduction in signal that I'm now seeing. I can't even lock this station in anymore, and I've had it since I went OTA in January 2007. It's always been a PITA (compared to the other stations), but it's always been there.


And now it isn't.


The only "change" that I thought could MAYBE account for the difference between then and now was the treetops (the leaves). So I got rid of that potential obstruction and there was NO change in reception.


So that's been eliminated and is out of the equation.


Now, also consider that this station has a construction permit to take the power from 170 to 355. I'm now told that there's no "scheduled completion date." Are they "working on" that construction? If so, what are they doing? Are they doing anything that might affect their signal?


And what about the other work at the ESB? That work was ongoing last year and it was then said that it would continue into this year. How long into this year?


For my money the answer here is simple. It definitely ain't my treetops, which I was told (pretty emphatically) was the likely problem. So that wasn't it. There's no doubt about that.


I also don't believe that it's 1 WTC or a billboard or a cell phone tower or space aliens. It appears that I'm not the only NJ guy seeing a rather significant reduction in signal FOR THIS STATION. And since I'm clearly on the edge of reception for all NYC stations, and apparently for this particular station particularly, because of my particular location, it's not surprising to me that LenL's ~20+% reduction in signal would knock me right out of the box.


It appears to have knocked him out of the box on his one antenna. Thankfully for him he has another antenna that pulls it in better.


So what do I think it is?


It's freaking MY9 and their "situation." I mean, "Duh"!!


I have no way of knowing what change they made since April 23 and they obviously aren't inclined to tell me since they have said that "nothing's changed."


So I'm just stuck until things change for the better -- if that ever happens.


I won't hold my breath.


Let me also add that it's not just this particular station that is the particular problem for me. It's also the companion station, 5.1. I've really never gotten that one.


Let's face it. We don't know what power they are REALLY broadcasting at, do we? I mean, MY9 has a license to broadcast at 170kW, but do we really KNOW that they are broadcasting at that power level? Is 5.1 also broadcasting at "full power"?


They are both Fox stations. Maybe poor old Rupert had to cut back the power. He is having problems, ya know.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Keith* /forum/post/22042241
> 
> 
> Looks like Tonight I can pick up TV Stations from Philly !!



It looks like there's major Tropo tonight. I couldn't get WCAU out of Philly(NBC), which never happens, so long story short I did a rescan and picked up a bunch of Baltimore stations. I've lost many of my usual Philly stations.


Just for fun I tried a rescan for NYC stations and I lost just about all of them on that rescan.


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22079717
> 
> 
> They are both Fox stations. Maybe poor old Rupert had to cut back the power. He is having problems, ya know.



Television stations at Empire do not cut transmitter output to save on the power bill.


Any station running less than 80% power for an extended length of time would have to file an STA with FCC.


Trip has a red light on his desk that lights up whenever someone files with FCC : )


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/22083117
> 
> 
> Television stations at Empire do not cut transmitter output to save on the power bill. Any station running less than 80% power for an extended length of time would have to file an STA with FCC.



I figured as much. That's why I'm thinking of blowing the whistle to the FCC on MY9's apparent reduced signal.










Maybe I'll suddenly get my Yankee games back if I do



> Quote:
> Trip has a red light on his desk that lights up whenever someone files with FCC : )



Trip's been quiet lately. He must be busy with real world stuff.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/22083117
> 
> 
> Television stations at Empire do not cut transmitter output to save on the power bill.
> 
> 
> Any station running less than 80% power for an extended length of time would have to file an STA with FCC.
> 
> 
> Trip has a red light on his desk that lights up whenever someone files with FCC : )



The FCC required analog TV stations to operate their transmitters between 80% and 110% of licensed power, but the power tolerance for DTV stations was tightened to within 95 -105% of authorized. FCC does allow stations to operate with lesser power for up to 10 days without any official notification.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/22084247
> 
> 
> ... FCC does allow stations to operate with lesser power for up to 10 days without any official notification.



And they can operate beyond the allowed 10 days as long as they do it "on the QT"











Any idea as to an email address where would one email the FCC with a complaint about a station's signal?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW* /forum/post/22083117
> 
> 
> Trip has a red light on his desk that lights up whenever someone files with FCC : )



Hey! Everyone knows the light is green.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22084037
> 
> 
> Trip's been quiet lately. He must be busy with real world stuff.



I am always lurking. I only comment when I have something helpful to add.


But yes, the real world is very busy...


- Trip


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/22085685
> 
> 
> ...I am always lurking....But yes, the real world is very busy... - Trip



Glad to see you checking in. Feel free to look into MY9's power output situation. I think they're shorting us.


----------



## retiredengineer

I posted a recent comment stating your bad reception of WWOR is probably multipath from the 1WTC. The attached picture illustrates what I mean. The signals from the ESB reflects of the right or bright side of the WTC towards NJ. Don't think it is like a mirror reflecting light.The reflected VHF and UHF signals will spread out on its way to your location causing interference.


As another poster stated, moving your antenna might help you to receive WWOR but you may lose a station or two. Also note that the reflecting surface is tilted back slightly so the center of reflection is actually lower.


----------



## AloEuro

Some time ago one contributor suggested that perhaps DTV could be the beginning of end of free OTA DTV, well, first two steps in that direction already happened.

First ch.2 CBS acquisition of L.I 10/55 was taken out from ch.45, it may broadcast on cable but not on OTA. And the second step

NBCch.4 years ago made acquisition of Telemundo ch.47, then the tragedy struck in form of cable Comcast acquiring NBC,then more than week ago Comcast took Telemundo ch.47-1,2,3 off of the air -out of OTA-, I suppose it is on cable paid TV, but no more OTA, all apparently done with silent approval of FCC.

Now guys may say since ch.47 is spanish DTV that it is not big deal, it is principle that matters, Telemundo under NBC was OTA and under cable Comcast ch.47 become apparently cable -paid- TV, all this may to be the tip of the iceberg


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/22097948
> 
> 
> Some time ago one contributor suggested that perhaps DTV could be the beginning of end of free OTA DTV, well, first two steps in that direction already happened.
> 
> First ch.2 CBS acquisition of L.I 10/55 was taken out from ch.45, it may broadcast on cable but not on OTA. And the second step
> 
> NBCch.4 years ago made acquisition of Telemundo ch.47, then the tragedy struck in form of cable Comcast acquiring NBC,then more than week ago Comcast took Telemundo ch.47-1,2,3 off of the air -out of OTA-, I suppose it is on cable paid TV, but no more OTA, all apparently done with silent approval of FCC.
> 
> Now guys may say since ch.47 is spanish DTV that it is not big deal, it is principle that matters, Telemundo under NBC was OTA and under cable Comcast ch.47 become apparently cable -paid- TV, all this may to be the tip of the iceberg



At 2 corrections in your rant.


1) Telemundo is still broadcasting OTA crystal clear.


2) WLNY still broadcasts OTA on RF 47, and is still on the air. Ch 45 was just a repeater for RF 47.


----------



## dvdchance

Did CH 42 WKOB get an increase in power or some other upgrade?


After being missing from my location for months on end it just reappeared, and rather solid at that.


I'm in Middlesex County, NJ.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer* /forum/post/22089542
> 
> 
> I posted a recent comment stating your bad reception of WWOR is probably multipath from the 1WTC. ...



Probably?


I was told that the problem was "probably" my treetops.


I think I have these figures correct:


7 26.9 kW ERP @ RF 7

11 7.5 kW ERP @ RF 11

13 9.3 kW ERP @ RF 13

2 213 kW @ RF 33

4 200.2 kW @ RF 28

9 170 kW @ RF 38

5 247.5 kW @ RF 44


Since you're a retired engineer (presumably in this area of expertise) perhaps you could tell me how each of those "power verses RF" figures translates to "effective reception" at my location. I'm guessing that there is a relatively simple formula to calculate something like that. I _think_ I know that you need more power at higher RFs to get the same "effective reception" at a particular distant location. (I have no idea what the correct term is, so I'm using "effective reception").


Thus you see that WABC Ch 7 @ RF 7 is broadcasting at 26.9 kW while WNYW Ch 5 @ RF 44 is broadcasting at 247.5 kW.


What I'm seeing is adequate reception of all of the above channels except for channels 5 and 9. If 1WTC is causing multipath which is impacting my reception of 5 and 9, why is it not also impacting my reception of channels 2 and 4?


Is it because they have a more powerful "effective reception"? That is, are they broadcasting at a higher "power vs. RF" ratio?


Yea yea, I know that different RFs are affected differently vis-a-vis any 1WTC multipath effect, blah blah blah.


But then there's also the fact that I had very solid reception of ch 9 (at good strength) on both April 10 and April 23, then virtually no reception of it on May 15. Do you really think that the situation at 1WTC changed enough during that time span to cause the effect that you say is "probably" the cause of my absolute inability to even lock in ch 9 now?


And also the fact that LenL is seeing a rather dramatic reduction in ch 9's signal strength at his location? While 1WTC is likely more of less in my LOS with the ESB, it's not at all in his LOS. I'm not saying that the reflective effect of 1WTC can't have _any_ effect on his reception. But I am saying that the reduction he's seeing seems out of place with any effect I'd expect to see, given his location and LOS.


As I say, I was told (by more than one "expert") that the problem was probably my treetops. Since those did probably change significantly during the relevant time frame (they "leafed out" significantly during that time frame), I cut them down and thus eliminated them from the equation.


That had no effect whatsoever.


The fact is that neither you nor I have any idea what's going on with channels 5 and 9. I can only go by what I'm told. I'm told that nothing has changed over there since April 23.


I don't buy it. I don't say I'm being lied to, but I don't buy the idea that nothing has changed with ch 9 since April 23. The dramatic loss of signal I'm seeing here has to be accounted for. I think _something_ has changed over there. Maybe they just aren't yet aware of it?


Perhaps you're right, but I seriously doubt it. It just doesn't add up in my mind that whatever change may have occurred to 1WTC in three weeks' time would completely knock out my ch 9 reception and leave my reception of channels 2 and 4 virtually unaffected.


The only way I'll ever know for sure is if I get reception again before they go to full power of 355 kW.


What's your feeling about the effect of 1WTC on my reception when ch 9 does go to full power? Will that likely improve my reception or will it just give me worse multipath?


Since ch 2 @ RF 33 is presently broadcasting at 213 kW and is a very strong station for me, I'd expect ch 9 @ RF 38 to be pretty darn strong @ 355 kW.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance* /forum/post/22098067
> 
> 
> ...I'm in Middlesex County, NJ.



Hello Carteret!


Have you seen any change in MY9's signal over there in Carteret?


You're a lot closer to the ESB than I, but in the same approximate LOS.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22098135
> 
> 
> Hello Carteret!
> 
> 
> Have you seen any change in MY9's signal over there in Carteret?
> 
> 
> You're a lot closer to the ESB than I, but in the same approximate LOS.



You're sounding like a former Ch 9 alum, Lloyd Lindsey Young!!


Seriously though, Ch 9 is coming in fine for me. But then it always has, same as all the NYC majors do.


----------



## George Molnar

Multipath refers to the arithmetic addition of two (or more) identical signals (coming from the same transmitting antenna) that have traveled over different length paths causing their sum at the receiving antenna to vary between nothing and twice as much.


The direct path has a certain physical length and the reflected path has a longer physical length and mixing the two together can result in twice as much signal if they are an even multiple of the carrier wavelength or can result in complete cancellation of the signal if they differ by half a wavelngth ("out of phase"). (Assuming the reflector bounces 100% - although the reflected signal is usually not as strong as the direct signal so multipatch seldom has complete cancellation.)


WTC would be reflecting all TV stations, but since each TV station uses a different frequency its wavelength is also different. You have a huge trigonometry problem to calculate whether or not the direct path signal and reflected path signal arrive in phase as opposed to out of phase. And for how many different channels??


That's why moving the receiving antenna only a few inches up or down or left or right can change receiving a station from phase cancellation to phase addition. You have to probe for a sweet spot because if you peak up a bad channel you can (and probably will) turn a good channel into a bad one.


Also, the "strength" number of almost all DTV receivers is not a true measurement of signal strength. Rather, it is mainly an inverse indication of how hard the receiver's microprocessor is working to decode the DTV signal. With sufficient signal the decoder loafs along and indicates a high number. With less than sufficient signal the decoder works harder until the signal becomne insufficient and the decoder simply gives up and indicates "weak signal" on the screen.


The WTC is a static reflector and your strength numbers wouldn't change much over time. However, when the reflector is moving (trees in wind, airplanes or vehicles on highways) it's called dynamic multipath, and the strength numbers would vary widely and rapidly.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/22098389
> 
> 
> ...The WTC is a static reflector and your strength numbers wouldn't change much over time. However, when the reflector is moving (trees in wind, airplanes or vehicles on highways) it's called dynamic multipath, and the strength numbers would vary widely and rapidly.



Thanks much for that very informative post. That really helps me to understand multipath much better.


As to your comment about the WTC being "static", however, retiredengineer's point seems to be that since 1WTC recently became the tallest building in NYC (which did indeed apparently happen after April 23 and before May 15) then that might account for my problem, which also happened within that time frame.


I find it hard to believe that any change to 1WTC during that rather short time frame would result in the dramatic effect I'm seeing. That's why I question it as the source of the problem.


But given the information in your post, I'll give more thought to moving my antenna a bit to see if maybe that has any effect. It's not going to be easy, but it is doable (I guess).


Anything that might get my Yankee games back is worth a try.


I'd hate to have to resort to cable. Or a dish.


Arghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!











Also, I do understand your point about 1WTC being static. That is, it's there and not going anywhere, so any effect it might have will be static. That's certainly true once it's completely finished, tho' obviously not completely true during construction.


Still, it may be sufficiently finished at this point such that it is indeed now "static."


That's more for the experts to say than for me to know.


----------



## ALP

I have what is probably a dumb question. I am much more of an audiophile than I am a videophile thus I do not have the experience and education about video gear that I do with audio gear. FM radio tuners all have built in multi-path rejection capability. Do ATSC TV tuners have multipath rejection capability?


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP* /forum/post/22098768
> 
> 
> I have what is probably a dumb question. I am much more of an audiophile than I am a videophile thus I do not have the experience and education about video gear that I do with audio gear. FM radio tuners all have built in multi-path rejection capability. Do ATSC TV tuners have multipath rejection capability?



Yes, DTV receivers have multipath rejection, and work fairly well to hide multipath, except there is a limitation if too severe.


Too bad DTV receiver designers made their sets display "weak signal" instead of "excessive multipath" but few viewers would understand.


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22098094
> 
> 
> 
> The only way I'll ever know for sure is if I get reception again before they go to full power of 355 kW.
> 
> 
> What's your feeling about the effect of 1WTC on my reception when ch 9 does go to full power? Will that likely improve my reception or will it just give me worse multipath?



There is a chance you will get improved reception when Ch 9 goes to full power. Any DTV signals, to be successfully displayed, must be strong enough to be decoded. When multipath signals corrupts the DTV signal, the signal has to be even stronger. Cross your fingers and toes when the power increases.


+1 on what George Molnar posted.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar* /forum/post/22098930
> 
> 
> Yes, DTV receivers have multipath rejection, and work fairly well to hide multipath, except there is a limitation if too severe. ....



I am using a retired VOOM to receive MY9. Since it was originally designed primarlily to receive the VOOM satellite signal(s), and not OTA signals, I'm not so sure how well it's designed to reject multipath.


I also have a Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver (which was also designed to primarily receive satellite signals -- from DirecTv), but the VOOM is much better at receiving OTA and the Sammie has never been able to pull in MY9, so I never use it for that. What I do use it for is watch WKYW ch 3 out of Philly because I can't use the VOOM for that because the TVGOS signal in CBS's stations causes the VOOM to bomb out.


I also have one each duplicate of each of these receivers, and maybe I'll give those extra ones a try with the MY9 signal.


Ya never know, right?


I have actually tried the backup VOOM with MY9 before and found that it isn't quite as good at pulling MY9 in. Thus I've used the other one since it appeared to be more sensitive to MY9's signal and better at pulling it in.


But maybe the other one would be better now?











__________________

Sony KV-27HS420

SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))

RS Model VU-190 XR antenna


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22084327
> 
> 
> And they can operate beyond the allowed 10 days as long as they do it "on the QT"



?


No one with a broadcast license is going to intentionally disregard FCC regulations.



> Quote:
> Any idea as to an email address where would one email the FCC with a complaint about a station's signal?



Start here: http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro* /forum/post/22097948
> 
> 
> Some time ago one contributor suggested that perhaps DTV could be the beginning of end of free OTA DTV, well, first two steps in that direction already happened.
> 
> First ch.2 CBS acquisition of L.I 10/55 was taken out from ch.45, it may broadcast on cable but not on OTA. And the second step
> 
> NBCch.4 years ago made acquisition of Telemundo ch.47, then the tragedy struck in form of cable Comcast acquiring NBC,then more than week ago Comcast took Telemundo ch.47-1,2,3 off of the air -out of OTA-, I suppose it is on cable paid TV, but no more OTA, all apparently done with silent approval of FCC.
> 
> Now guys may say since ch.47 is spanish DTV that it is not big deal, it is principle that matters, Telemundo under NBC was OTA and under cable Comcast ch.47 become apparently cable -paid- TV, all this may to be the tip of the iceberg



It would be hard to be more off base with your 'facts' and assumptions.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22099534
> 
> 
> I am using a retired VOOM to receive MY9.....
> 
> 
> I also have a Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver....



This is part of the problem. Both of those units are 2nd or maybe 3rd generation DTV tuners circa 2003, and since that time newer units are much better at reception and multipath rejection.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/22100022
> 
> 
> ...No one with a broadcast license is going to intentionally disregard FCC regulations. ...



And it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summertime.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max* /forum/post/22100177
> 
> 
> And it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summertime.



Very glib, cute reply. Thank you for illuminating the depth of your knowledge on this subject.


A common view in the business community is that a broadcast license is a license to print money. Although that may not be as true as it used to be, at a minimum the license currently represents a very valuable piece of radio frequency spectrum. This is because the FCC has recently ruled possession of a broadcast license allows the owner to turn it over to the government for sale to other technologies, primarily the mobile broadband industry.


From the FCC:


> Quote:
> Current licensees - - like over-the-air-broadcasters -- would have the option to contribute spectrum for auction in exchange for a portion of the proceeds.
> 
> 
> FCC analysis estimates economic value creation of more than $100 billion in the near-term by meeting the need for spectrum.


 http://www.fcc.gov/topic/incentive-auctions 


Not exactly something to trifle with.


The FCC is less than stellar in many respects regarding broadcast spectrum management, but they are notorious for making broadcast license holders adhere meticulously to their rules and regulations (See details from April 2012 on the ongoing lawsuit they have been pursuing against CBS since the 2004 Super Bowl. Yes, over eight years of legal wrangling, and the FCC isn't done yet.). If you really believe a broadcaster would intentionally jeopardize the monetary potential of owning a broadcast license or contributing it for a portion of auction proceeds, then I'm afraid you simply don't understand this issue.


Further, AVS is by far the largest consumer source of information available on the subject of Digital TV reception in the US. In this forum, specific to your television market, there have been no mass reports of the issue you are having. If it was happening as you believe, it would be discussed here, and in depth. It's not.


I know as well as anyone that reliable Digital TV reception can at times be difficult and sometimes impossible. I empathize with those who have your kind of reception issues and have been directly involved with trying to help resolve those issues here at AVS since 1999.


You've mentioned contacting the FCC a couple of times now. Please heed your own advice and file a complaint with the FCC at the link I posted above. I'd love to hear what they have to say.


----------



## LenL

Ken,


Regarding the FCC, I have written to them and never got even an acknowledgement. So even if T-max writes and complains I'm not sure he will get a response from the FCC to share with you.


T-Max,


Seeing as I have 2 antennas and only 1 of the 2 antennas has lost signal for my9 I am agreeing with what others have said that you simply need to move your antenna and find the sweet spot. When I was mounting my home built antennas I found that moving them a foot or more higher or lower made a big difference. Also that higher is better but not always true. I don't know why my CM4228 has lost signal for my9 but I am sure if it was willing to go up on the roof and move the antenna I could regain the signal.


I think you will find that you can adjust your antenna and find the sweet spot again. However don't be surprised if down the road you lose that sweet spot and have to move your antenna again.


Perhaps you should consider getting a second antenna and do what I do. Grey Hovermans are very cheap to build, easy to mount and fun to build. It's also nice to have a back up antenna when you are in a tough reception area.


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15930#post_22101984
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing as I have 2 antennas and only 1 of the 2 antennas has lost signal for my9 I am agreeing with what others have said that you simply need to move your antenna and find the sweet spot. When I was mounting my home built antennas I found that moving them a foot or more higher or lower made a big difference. Also that higher is better but not always true. I don't know why my CM4228 has lost signal for my9 but I am sure if it was willing to go up on the roof and move the antenna I could regain the signal.



A possible explanation for why you lost My9 with your CM4228 can be found at:

www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html 


Read the section under 'Non-uniform fields'


I also receive my signals as 1 edge per TVFool. I tried 2 antennas, the CM4221 and CM4228. The CM4228, even with its higher gain, did not work well. The few stations I could receive had pixelation, etc. But with the CM4221, I get all the high power local stations with absolutely no picture degradations. Only when a helicopter or airplane passes overhead.


Therefore, I agree with you that either moving the antenna or in my case using a less directional antenna may help you find the elusive sweet spot.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15930#post_22103240
> 
> 
> A possible explanation for why you lost My9 with your CM4228 can be found at:
> www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html
> 
> Read the section under 'Non-uniform fields'
> 
> I also receive my signals as 1 edge per TVFool. I tried 2 antennas, the CM4221 and CM4228. The CM4228, even with its higher gain, did not work well. The few stations I could receive had pixelation, etc. But with the CM4221, I get all the high power local stations with absolutely no picture degradations. Only when a helicopter or airplane passes overhead.
> 
> Therefore, I agree with you that either moving the antenna or in my case using a less directional antenna may help you find the elusive sweet spot.



RE, As a retired scientist (who worked most of his career as an engineer or material scientist) I have to say this is a very useful link for anyone having OTA reception problems. After reading it I realize I really lucked out with my installation and the fact that I have good reception on my first try at OTA. My main concern is that some time in the future transmission will move from the ESB to the WTC and given that I am due north of the ESB this will have a major effect on my reception. Hopefully my good reception continues and I can continue to enjoy my free HDTV.


----------



## LenL

Retireengineer,


Thanks for the link. Some of it was above my head(no pun intended) but I got the ideas. It does make sense and supports what I am seeing with my 2 and sometime 3 antennas. It also supports my latest idea which is to build a separate VHF antenna which probably will work better at a given location than a combined UHF/VHF antenna (my 2 home builts were combined UHF/VHF). VHF is my biggest issue at the moment as I can get 7.1 just fine but 11.1 and 13.1 are kind of spotty. I want 11.1 for the Mets and 13.1 as we enjoy PBS and some of the programming is different from NJTV.


----------



## SubaruB4

Wow I did not know this site finally upgraded.. going to take awhile to get used to this.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15930#post_22103240
> 
> 
> ...I also receive my signals as 1 edge per TVFool.....



I just checked TV Fool for my exact location and all of my NYC stations are red 2 Edge. Surprisingly, MY9 is rated above WCBS, which is a pretty strong station for me -- at RF 33 no less. It's shown as the last red 2 Edge for me.


So MY9 at RF 38 _should_ be coming in strong.**


Furthermore, MY9 is six places above WNBC 4.1, which I'm getting more or less just fine. That's RF 28. According to TV Fool, that's a grey 2 Edge for me.


WNYW 5.1 @ RF 44 is two places below WNBC and I don't get that at all and basically never have. At the present time, MY9, which used to come in just fine for me as recently as April 23rd, is at about the same level as 5.1, which is to say that the signal is essentially zero.


I don't get anything below WNYW except for the occasional tropo.


And I'm definitely not loving 'the new AVS." The posting window totally sucks. It seems to me that the primary function of this forum is posting, so why wouldn't you at least make that part of it decent?


?????????????










It was waay better before.


I'm now down to writing my posts in a notepad memo and then just pasting them into the posting window because that window so totally sucks.


C'mon guys -- FIX IT!


** Edit: I should also note that TV Fool has MY9's "Effective ERP" at 355.000 kW, which is not what they are currently broadcasting at. I'm told that they are at 170 kW and have no scheduled completion date for the increase to 355 kW.


----------



## ALP

What about the posting window is a problem, it works just fine for me.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22108408
> 
> 
> What about the posting window is a problem, it works just fine for me.



The typeset is too small (maybe that can be adjusted) and there's a significant delay between the typing and when it appears onscreen. The window also jumps around anytime I'm typing.


Also, yesterday I had done a fairly long post and when it got down to the bottom of my screen, it jumped all around and acted like it didn't want to accept any more characters, although it did. I could not scroll what I was typing up -- no matter what I did it stayed at the very bottom of my screen where I could hardly see it.


Now having said all that, that's NOT what I'm seeing now as I type this. There's no delay now and I'm not near enough to the bottom to know about that effect.


The typeset does remain too small.


Perhaps the delay (which now seems to be kicking in again) has to do with my memory?


But I never had this problem before.


Anyway, those are my complaints as to the posting window.


I'm DEFINITELY getting the delay thing again now.


Edit: Forgot to mention > I didn't post yesterday's post because when I went to preview it, it said the page had expired. So I lost the whole post. Which is another reason that I'd prefer to post in Notepad until I'm sure this new site is more reliable.


Also note that I could not log in yesterday (first time on the site since the upgrade) and I had to reset my password. That turned out to be a fiasco when it wouldn't accept my "new" password which was the same as my old password.


Then it finally did.


The delay thing is definitely back bigtime as I type this, but the screen (window) is not jumpring around like it was earlier.


Edit again> Now that I think of it, it can't be my memory or something else with my 'puter since I had it yesterday and again today. So a reboot won't cure it.


----------



## ALP

The type size is a little smaller on the new site, however, I have no delay or any jumping around. What browser are you using? I will check the quick start guide to see of it says anything about setting the type size.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22108848
> 
> 
> ...What browser are you using? ....



IE 8 with XP SP3. I just changed my view to 150% (from 125%) which makes the type size better but now this window wobbles each time I hit a key.


It's definitely not working properly for me. It's also wobbling @ 125%


I have a MY9 Yankee game tomorrow night so I'll probably fiddle around with my antenna during the day to see if I can get some reception.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15930#post_22103240
> 
> 
> A possible explanation for why you lost My9 with your CM4228 can be found at:
> www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html
> 
> Read the section under 'Non-uniform fields'....



Here's what I found interesting in that article and part of what I tried to post last night (DTV figures only):

Channels 2-6 : 50 kilowatts


Channels 7-13 : 160 kilowatts


Channels 14-69 : 1 megawatt



MY9 (RF 38) is currently broadcasting at 170 kW. According to that chart, they should be in the megawatt range.


Is _anybody_ broadcasting in the megawatt range??


(No jumping or delay in typing this post)


----------



## Trip in VA

The power limits are height dependent, and interference dependent, and location dependent. New York is in Zone I, so the limits are as follows:


2-6: 305m 10 kW

7-13: 305m 30 kW

14-51: 365m 1000 kW


Those numbers are all maximum values assuming that:


1) Interference does not prevent them from being raised, or


2) 47CFR73.622(f)(5) is not invoked, allowing a station to expand its coverage to match the largest station in the market, which in the case of New York, should be WABC.


I suspect you will find that almost every station in New York is interference limited to lower power levels. (WNYW 5-1 is running 990 kW on a directional antennna aimed away from New Jersey. WMBC 63-1 is at 1000 kW aimed away from New York. Those might be the only two 1000 kW-ish stations you can receive from the New York DMA.)


- Trip


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22109482
> 
> 
> ... (WNYW 5-1 is running 990 kW on a directional antennna aimed away from New Jersey....



That explains why I don't get 5.1. But I do fall well within MY9's coverage plot.


Thanks for all that good info.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15900_100#post_22110031
> 
> 
> That explains why I don't get 5.1. But I do fall well within MY9's coverage plot.
> 
> 
> Thanks for all that good info.



You're most welcome.


But in theory, you should be getting more than 200 kW in your direction from WNYW, if I found the right location for you. Of course, there's no telling how the antenna is mounted on Empire or how being 100 feet lower on the building impacts your reception.


- Trip


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22109317
> 
> 
> IE 8 with XP SP3. I just changed my view to 150% (from 125%) which makes the type size better but now this window wobbles each time I hit a key.
> 
> It's definitely not working properly for me. It's also wobbling @ 125%
> 
> I have a MY9 Yankee game tomorrow night so I'll probably fiddle around with my antenna during the day to see if I can get some reception.



I am using Firefox, it may make a difference. Firefox is free if you want to download it.


----------



## LenL

5.1 is in the mid 90s with my CM4228 antenna and has been mid 90's ever since the digital conversion. Oh and I am in NJ.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22110040
> 
> 
> ...But in theory, you should be getting more than 200 kW in your direction from WNYW...



According to the FCC's service contour maps, I am as much within 5.1's service area as 2.1's. Which is to say that I am well within both.


That's also true of MY9.


Yet I've never gotten 5.1, no longer get 9.1, and am still getting 2.1 just fine.


It seems that because of my particular location, I'm seeing some strange effects. I will have to fiddle around with moving my antenna if I ever want to get MY9 again.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15930#post_22100026
> 
> 
> 
> It would be hard to be more off base with your 'facts' and assumptions.


Assumption is proper word gentlemen use, mine were incorrect.

The other fact remains that my iNet SSR 1921, in 3weeks time 4 Full scans sometime picking up to 62ch. have rejected 47-1,2,3,

then manually punching in 36, it picked up the frequency which happen to be 47-1,2,3. It also placed CBS2-1 to 33-1,2, slot


The other box Coship rarely used caries 47-1,2,3, it gives me 65ch. including doubles and Audio


----------



## DTVintermods

The FCC's coverage maps are not indicative of service. The FCC maps are based on INCIDENT primary signal strength, not the RECEIVED signal which has been subjected to multipath that increases the signal power and shadowing that reduces the signal power. In other words, strong signal does not mean reception. This is a particularly acute issue for the US standard where the spectrum of each symbol occupies the entire 6MHz channel making partial or full cancellation of the primary signal by reflections a common reception problem, indoors and outdoors. The receiver's adaptive equalizer is supposed to attenuate the delayed (not more than +- 50 microseconds) reflections after detection BUT it cannot do the same for very short delays, less than the symbol period of +- .93 microsecond or +- 30 meters, because for these short-delayed reflections the cancellation occurs at the RF input.

This is why all other standards use COFDM modulation so that when RF cancellation occurs, it is limited to few out of thousands carriers that make up the DTV channel.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22111892
> 
> 
> The FCC's coverage maps are not indicative of service. The FCC maps are based on INCIDENT primary signal strength, not the RECEIVED signal which has been subjected to multipath that increases the signal power and shadowing that reduces the signal power. In other words, strong signal does not mean reception. This is a particularly acute issue for the US standard where the spectrum of each symbol occupies the entire 6MHz channel making partial or full cancellation of the primary signal by reflections a common reception problem, indoors and outdoors. The receiver's adaptive equalizer is supposed to attenuate the delayed (not more than +- 50 microseconds) reflections after detection BUT it cannot do the same for very short delays, less than the symbol period of +- .93 microsecond or +- 30 meters, because for these short-delayed reflections the cancellation occurs at the RF input.
> 
> This is why all other standards use COFDM modulation so that when RF cancellation occurs, it is limited to few out of thousands carriers that make up the DTV channel.



Huh?


All I know is that I had great MY9 reception on April 10 and 23, then nothing on May 15 and ever since.


It's either 1WTC (which I seriously doubt) or something that's changed at MY9 (which I suspect)


Just about all the so-called "experts" said it was my treetops and that turned out to not be true.


But I'm willing to fiddle with my antenna and see if that helps at all. I seriously doubt it will, but it's worth a try.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22108408
> 
> 
> What about the posting window is a problem, it works just fine for me.




I also suffer that slowness and suspect it is related to my computer's several Trend Micro applications intended to protect from malware, etc..


Also, this new site belches out links to sites like facebook and twitter and google ads, and my TM checks packets going each way. What a slowdow !


And, former site allowed posters a checkbox whether to show their screen name, but that ability is now gone (or well hidden).


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22112130
> 
> 
> ...It's either 1WTC (which I seriously doubt) or something that's changed at MY9 (which I suspect)....But I'm willing to fiddle with my antenna and see if that helps at all. I seriously doubt it will, but it's worth a try.



Well, it looks like retiredengineer wins the sweepstakes. I slid my antenna out of its mount through the peak of the roof and stuck it into a vent pipe located 8.5 feet to the left (north), which lowered the antenna approximately 4 feet, and now I have MY9 at a pretty darn solid 85%, which means solid reception with no issues.











On the posting window issue, I find that continuing a post after previewing it _sometimes_ gives a different-looking window that doesn't seem to have the delay and shaking issues.


The text seems easier to read as well (it may be a bit larger)


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22113597
> 
> 
> Well, it looks like retiredengineer wins the sweepstakes. I slid my antenna out of its mount through the peak of the roof and stuck it into a vent pipe located 8.5 feet to the left (north), which lowered the antenna approximately 4 feet, and now I have MY9 at a pretty darn solid 85%, which means solid reception with no issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the posting window issue, I find that continuing a post after previewing it _sometimes_ gives a different-looking window that doesn't seem to have the delay and shaking issues.
> 
> The text seems easier to read as well (it may be a bit larger)



So u cut down a tree,blamed WWOR, and wrote letters to the FCC before trying that?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22114570
> 
> 
> So u cut down a tree,blamed WWOR, and wrote letters to the FCC before trying that?



Aren't you the expert who suggested I should try a preamp?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15870#post_22038926
> 
> 
> 
> Before going thru the trouble and dangers of cutting down treetops, have you tried a preamp as many here have suggested?



Yea, I thought that wuz you.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22113597
> 
> 
> Well, it looks like retiredengineer wins the sweepstakes....



I neglected to give retiredengineer a proper shout out and thank you.


Absent some other explanation, I think he hit the nail on the head. So thanks much for getting to what looks to me like the root of the problem.


----------



## Gail Wilck

I live in Brooklyn, NY and have a SONY TV with an outdoor antenna on the roof. I live above a store that changed his light blubs to the new energy ones two weeks ago and since then I cannot get 4.1 and 2.1 as well as other channels. After the store goes home I get a great picture on over 40 channels. I am most worried about 4.1 at 1pm because I am a life long fan of Days of Our Lives. Nobody seems to know how to advise me. I called his cable company and the guy checked that we are not connected in fact we get more channels than he ordered. At night we get about 10 Chinese stations. Please help this is very upsetting for me.


----------



## keyboard21

Speak to LenL in this thread. He had similar problems with a neighbor. He got the light manufacturer to make NEW lamps that did not Emmit RF. After much hassle they got the new lamps with the new bulbs and his problem went away. Nothing else he did worked.


Anyway he is a nice person and I am sure he will help you. Just PM him or ask him on this thread or both ways lol


----------



## 2VW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15930#post_22084247
> 
> 
> 
> The FCC required analog TV stations to operate their transmitters between 80% and 110% of licensed power, but the power tolerance for DTV stations was tightened to within 95 -105% of authorized. FCC does allow stations to operate with lesser power for up to 10 days without any official notification.



Hi George,


Can you cite CFR for this? all I can find are ATSC recommended practices and a couple trade mag articles.


TIA

2VW.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2VW*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22120606
> 
> 
> Hi George,
> 
> Can you cite CFR for this? all I can find are ATSC recommended practices and a couple trade mag articles.
> 
> TIA
> 
> 2VW.


73.682(d)


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22113597
> 
> 
> Well, it looks like retiredengineer wins the sweepstakes. I slid my antenna out of its mount through the peak of the roof and stuck it into a vent pipe located 8.5 feet to the left (north), which lowered the antenna approximately 4 feet, and now I have MY9 at a pretty darn solid 85%, which means solid reception with no issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Had another Yankee game last night so I moved the antenna and got the same good reception result. I watched the entire game plus most of the post-game stuff as well. So I watched MY9 from 7:00 to ~11:00 and had almost no issues. Just a few dropouts, etc. That's to be expected with reception at 84-85%, but it still amounted to virtually issue-free viewing.


I also watched Charlie Rose on ch 13 which also comes in a bit better at this location.


I did try MY9 again in the old location (which is still my primary location since I only move locations for MY9 watching) and got the same result there as before; that is, virtually no signal.


Certainly no useable signal since I can't even lock the station anymore at that location.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gail Wilck*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22118466
> 
> 
> I live in Brooklyn, NY and have a SONY TV with an outdoor antenna on the roof. I live above a store that changed his light blubs to the new energy ones two weeks ago and since then I cannot get 4.1 and 2.1 as well as other channels. After the store goes home I get a great picture on over 40 channels. I am most worried about 4.1 at 1pm because I am a life long fan of Days of Our Lives. Nobody seems to know how to advise me. I called his cable company and the guy checked that we are not connected in fact we get more channels than he ordered. At night we get about 10 Chinese stations. Please help this is very upsetting for me.



Gail, Can you find out the type and brand of energy saving light bulbs they used.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just noticed that 2.2 which had been transmitting in 16:9 has gone back to 4:3, its original format.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22112130
> 
> 
> Huh?
> 
> All I know is that I had great MY9 reception on April 10 and 23, then nothing on May 15 and ever since.
> 
> It's either 1WTC (which I seriously doubt) or something that's changed at MY9 (which I suspect)
> 
> Just about all the so-called "experts" said it was my treetops and that turned out to not be true.
> 
> But I'm willing to fiddle with my antenna and see if that helps at all. I seriously doubt it will, but it's worth a try.


Today morning 9wor was breaking, 4m. from ESB


----------



## speedlaw

channel 2, RF 33, is giving me trouble.


I'm 40 miles north of nyc, along the river, and have a near LOS path to the Empire State. All channels come in 90-95%, with the exception of channel 2. Reception has been spotty, using both a new Tivo and older Sony HDD 250. The power is less, about 55%. I have a fringe antenna, which is more than I need, and all other channels come in perfectly. Is channel 2 having transmitter issues ? I can't come up with any plausible reason why that channel would take a hit but none other.


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15930#post_22103240
> 
> 
> A possible explanation for why you lost My9 with your CM4228 can be found at:
> www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html
> 
> Read the section under 'Non-uniform fields'
> 
> I also receive my signals as 1 edge per TVFool. I tried 2 antennas, the CM4221 and CM4228. The CM4228, even with its higher gain, did not work well. The few stations I could receive had pixelation, etc. But with the CM4221, I get all the high power local stations with absolutely no picture degradations. Only when a helicopter or airplane passes overhead.
> 
> Therefore, I agree with you that either moving the antenna or in my case using a less directional antenna may help you find the elusive sweet spot.



Playing with ham radios, which use frequencies pretty much the same as we are using, I have found many times that a few feet can make a huge difference. I can keep or lose a two way radio contact in a car length. We put up antennas and think it should just work, but we really should expect to have to move it if it doesn't work....


I


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22140064
> 
> 
> channel 2, RF 33, is giving me trouble.
> 
> I'm 40 miles north of nyc, along the river, and have a near LOS path to the Empire State. All channels come in 90-95%, with the exception of channel 2. Reception has been spotty, using both a new Tivo and older Sony HDD 250. The power is less, about 55%. I have a fringe antenna, which is more than I need, and all other channels come in perfectly. Is channel 2 having transmitter issues ? I can't come up with any plausible reason why that channel would take a hit but none other.



I am about 30 miles north of the ESB, but not right on the river. I use a Weingard HD7696P antenna which I am not sure is fringe but I suspect is close to it if it is not. I get Channel 2 at about the same strength as the rest of the channels. Based on the information posted by "retiredengineer" I would suggest raising or lowering your antenna a few feet to see if that helps with Channel 2. See Post 15956.


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22140378
> 
> 
> I am about 30 miles north of the ESB, but not right on the river. I use a Weingard HD7696P antenna which I am not sure is fringe but I suspect is close to it if it is not. I get Channel 2 at about the same strength as the rest of the channels. Based on the information posted by "retiredengineer" I would suggest raising or lowering your antenna a few feet to see if that helps with Channel 2. See Post 15956.



Agreed, except that in the past I was up around the 90's for channel 2 (RF 33), so it is something they must have done....power change, or move TX antenna location. I'm using a Radio Shack antenna which is a copy of the big Winegard-oh well, the workaround is to use the Cable feed of channel 2, even if not as pristine as the OTA signal. I'd take the antenna down and do an only UHF/high VHF antenna, which would be smaller. I don't need the big 50 mhz elements, so the whole back half of the antenna is now useless except as a bird perch...but as the antenna is still working wonderfully for TV and broadcast FM, it's not a priority. Back in the day, I used to get stations out of Philadelphia when the inversion was in.....today I can still get the digital low power NYC on RF channel 2, even though it is nothing I'd ever watch...that's how nice my line of sight is.


The UHF portion of the antenna is about two and a half feet long, with the 90 degree reflector, so my overall UHF reception is very strong.


----------



## ALP

FWIW, I just got the following "signal strength" reads for the 6 main channels on one of my Magnavox 515 DVR's:


UHF: 2 = 90, 4 = 80, 5 = 86


VHF: 7 = 90, 11 =86, 13 = 70


I get good reception on all of the channels, all readings fluctuate by +/- 3 points.


I do agree it is perplexing when a channel that had good signal strength suddenly goes weak.


----------



## SnellKrell

If anything, in the past month+, WCBS's reception for me has improved.


Back in January, the station told the FCC that it couldn't go to the then newly approved maximum

power due to problems at the ESB. The station estimated that new equipment would be in place

in approximately 6 months to accomodate the higher power.


I have a feeling, at least based on my reception, that WCBS may very well has been able to

go to full authorized power.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22140663
> 
> 
> Agreed, except that in the past I was up around the 90's for channel 2 (RF 33), so it is something they must have done....power change, or move TX antenna location....


Now you sound like me with my MY9 problem recently. It appears that my problem had nothing to do with MY9's situation (power, antenna, whatever) and it looks like moving my antenna has completely resolved my issue. I had another Yankee game Friday night and got excellent reception throughout the game. Note that my "new MY9 antenna location" is 8.5 feet north of the old location and, significantly, quite a bit lower (I think it was 4 feet -- see my prior post on that). I find the fact that it's lower significant because height usually does translate to better reception, especially for my reception of NYC stations. Yet this new lower location gives me at least as good as I've ever had and maybe even better.


I still get nothing for MY9 at the old location.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22135379
> 
> 
> Today morning 9wor was breaking, 4m. from ESB



I suspect that there's still some kind of work going on at the ESB which could affect broadcast signals. But I wouldn't notice anything unless it happened during a Yankee game because that's the only time I watch MY9.


Did the signal ever return to normal for you?


----------



## LenL

Just an Update on LED lights and their potential impact on OTA reception.


My neighbor gave me the 5 led walkway lights that were impacting my reception. I though OK should not be a problem for me as where my walkway is is nowhere near the antenna line of sight to the ESB.


Boy was I wrong. As I was installing them I had a headset radio on tuned to fm and when I turned the lights on the RF interference was so bad that unless I was 10 feet away I could not listen to the radio. Still I though there should not be any impact on my TV reception as the walkway was separated from my CM4228 antenna by about 50 plus feet up in the air and the house was blocking any RF interference plus the lights were behind the antenna. Well was a I fooled. As soon as the lights went on the reception of 8.1 (58.1), and 11.1 went dead. What was surprisng was that 7.1 and 13.1 were fine. So I started removing LED walkway lights starting with the closest of the 5 and removed 2 before I got 11.1 back. So at the moment 3 led walkway lights are in place.


Just goes to show me and us how much RF interference is possible from these lights.


When my neighbor had the 5 in place I lost all of the VHF stations so I am puzzled as to my odd experience with 11.1 and 8.1 going black and 7.1 and 13.1 being OK.


Anyway I thought I would share this with you since we are seeing more and more LED lighting coming into use.


----------



## ALP

Len, Do you have a brand name, place of origin, wattage, etc. for these LED lights. It seems to me that if all LED lights emit this much RFI that the FCC should be all over this (like white on rice). If as some posters have indicated the future money in owning broadcast rights is streaming to mobiles using the existing VHF and UHF bands this LED RFI looks like a big problem. Does anyone know if there is any effort on the part of the regulatory bodies on this issue?


----------



## LenL

the lights in question have been discontinued but they may still be in stores and no telling if others that are being sold give off RF interference. I did write to the FCC and never heard from them.


The lights in question:


Malibu

Type

Low Voltage


Model #

8406-9111-01


Name

Pro Light - LED


They were sold in HOme Depot and elsewhere.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22141144
> 
> 
> I suspect that there's still some kind of work going on at the ESB which could affect broadcast signals. But I wouldn't notice anything unless it happened during a Yankee game because that's the only time I watch MY9.
> 
> Did the signal ever return to normal for you?


I wrote it to confirm your suspicion that it is not Antenna, amps, or trees to blame but rather the broadcaster 9wor, sometime the signal is stabilized giving solid uninterupted signal, and then like today morning broken, giving freeze


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22143598
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22143528
> 
> 
> Many of you gentlemen may have noticed there is new big one coming on OTA from NY, unfortunately at least 3 of 4 are in spanish ch3 Buena Vision to gather primarily to PR and Dominicanos
> 
> 3-1 Buena TV 704x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo
> 
> 3-2 wBQM 704x480i 30 Hz
> 
> 3-3 CTVN 704x480i 30 Hz christian? so far dead, no program
> 
> 3-4 WBQM 704x480 30 Hz
> 
> Sat. and Sunday it was giving introduction of programming ,apparently NY based
> 
> The signal is strong, good around 60 to 80 and higher, fluctuate
Click to expand...


----------



## dvdchance

Why do you keep quoting your own posts and adding no new content?


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22143144
> 
> 
> Just an Update on LED lights and their potential impact on OTA reception.
> 
> My neighbor gave me the 5 led walkway lights that were impacting my reception. I though OK should not be a problem for me as where my walkway is is nowhere near the antenna line of sight to the ESB.
> 
> Boy was I wrong. As I was installing them I had a headset radio on tuned to fm and when I turned the lights on the RF interference was so bad that unless I was 10 feet away I could not listen to the radio......
> 
> Just goes to show me and us how much RF interference is possible from these lights.



It's not the LEDs per se that is causing your interference. It is the circuitry behind the LEDs. To reduce power consumption and brightness the LEDs are rapidly turned on and off. You might see a stroboscopic effect if you rapidly scan your eyes past the LEDs. The designers of the circuitry didn't bother to shield or filter the circuit board or the timing signals that are generated have very fast rise and fall times which can result in RF interference.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15960#post_22140064
> 
> 
> channel 2, RF 33, is giving me trouble.
> 
> I'm 40 miles north of nyc, along the river, and have a near LOS path to the Empire State. All channels come in 90-95%, with the exception of channel 2. Reception has been spotty, using both a new Tivo and older Sony HDD 250. The power is less, about 55%. I have a fringe antenna, which is more than I need, and all other channels come in perfectly. Is channel 2 having transmitter issues ? I can't come up with any plausible reason why that channel would take a hit but none other.



I'd suspect your problem is coming from WFSB Channel 3 out of Hartford knocking on the back side of your antenna.

You are probably getting just enough signal to interrupt WCBS.

Both WCBS 2 and WFSB 3 (CBS) broadcast on RF channel 33.


----------



## AloEuro

DVDChance -- It was glitch, i've tried to edit it using wrong buttons, I didn't see the three buttons in left corner, you and others have only one

Today in first sign in, thank God they gave me double sign in so I could delete it


----------



## MrKenmore

I had a similar problem with CBS 2.1. It was very spotty. The solution for me was very simple. I just moved my CM 4228 from a rear gable peak to a side gable peak. Probably about 30 feet south still pointing at ESB. Now it comes in great!


One channel that continues to give me trouble is 11. I just can't bring it in reliably. I am in Kings Park, LI 11754.


----------



## LenL

Mr Kenmore,


You probably know this but the CM4228 is not designed for VHF channels like 11.1, 7.1, 13.1. While it is a combo UHF/VHF antenna it is primarily a UHF one. That being said there were times when I was getting 7.1 around 90% plus reception. Lately its been in the 70s to low 80s.


11.1 has always been a problem for me with the CM4228. Th best I can do is the 60's to sometimes low 70s. Ditto 13.1.



The best way to get the VHF stations is with a dedicated VHF antenna. Otherwise it is going to be a problem that may not be worth moving your antenna for as moving it can possibly cause problems with other stations. You might get lucky though.


----------



## mikepier

Any tropo action going on these past couple of days?

I have gotten nothing so far. I tried about 3AM this morning.


----------



## LenL

OTA issues are happening.


Last nite my CM4228 antenna could not pick up CBS 2.1 without breakup and pixelation. There were times in the past when that station was rock solid in the mid 90's with that antenna.


So I checked my other homebuilt and much lower mounted antenna and it was still picking up CBS at a rock solid 93%.


This just goes to show how fickle OTA reception can be. The higher mounted store bought antenna had reception problems with CBS 2.1 (the only station by the way that was bad with that antenna) and a lower mounted antenna saw no signs of prblems.


There is no explanantion but I am thankful I have 2 antennas for these kinds of events! Not a big issue when rerun season is here though.


----------



## retiredengineer

You are probably affected by the same problem that T-Max has, multipath signals from 1WTC.


Attached is a picture taken from Morristown which is close to you showing the top of the 1WTC on the horizon.

MorrisTown 30 miles away.jpg 5k .jpg file


----------



## JoeSchmoe007

Is Antenna TV no longer available in NYC area? I used to receive it but not anymore.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joeschmoe007*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22159058
> 
> 
> Is Antenna TV no longer available in NYC area? I used to receive it but not anymore.



Last I looked it was 11-2. If it had been removed I'm pretty sure my gf would have told me so.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22156628
> 
> 
> OTA issues are happening....This just goes to show how fickle OTA reception can be....





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22157039
> 
> 
> You are probably affected by the same problem that T-Max has, multipath signals from 1WTC....]




Indeed, OTA issues are happening and OTA reception is indeed fickle.


Last night I had a MY9 Yankee game vs. da Mets so I moved my antenna to the new "MY9 location" and had the best reception I've seen yet for MY9. It was a solid 87%, which is quite high. I checked my other NYC stations and they all seemed higher than normal.


I know there may be some tropo around, so that might account.


The game was rain-delayed and thus didn't start until 8:05 or so. I watched the first 4 innings (maybe a bit more) without any issues and then lost reception. So I switched to ch 11 because it was also broadcasting the game (from the Mets' perspective). That worked for a time but then I eventually lost ch 11 as well. MY9 was also gone, so I went to the radio.


Later on, maybe the late-8th inning or so, I moved my antenna back to the original location because although that's no longer any good at all for MY9, it's normally pretty fine for ch 11. But last night it was also no good for ch 11. And as always, no MY9 either.


Then this morning I suddenly had MY9 (for awhile). But no ch 11 (!!)


This is still at the original antenna position.


So who knows what the heck is goin' on. The only thing I wll say about last night is that there was a lot of thunderstorm activity about and that may well have impacted my reception. I'll know better the next time I have a MY9 game and some better weather.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22160538
> 
> 
> Indeed, OTA issues are happening and OTA reception is indeed fickle.
> 
> Last night I had a MY9 Yankee game vs. da Mets so I moved my antenna to the new "MY9 location" and had the best reception I've seen yet for MY9. It was a solid 87%, which is quite high. I checked my other NYC stations and they all seemed higher than normal.
> 
> I know there may be some tropo around, so that might account.
> 
> The game was rain-delayed and thus didn't start until 8:05 or so. I watched the first 4 innings (maybe a bit more) without any issues and then lost reception. So I switched to ch 11 because it was also broadcasting the game (from the Mets' perspective). That worked for a time but then I eventually lost ch 11 as well. MY9 was also gone, so I went to the radio.
> 
> Later on, maybe the late-8th inning or so, I moved my antenna back to the original location because although that's no longer any good at all for MY9, it's normally pretty fine for ch 11. But last night it was also no good for ch 11. And as always, no MY9 either.
> 
> Then this morning I suddenly had MY9 (for awhile). But no ch 11 (!!)
> 
> This is still at the original antenna position.
> 
> So who knows what the heck is goin' on. The only thing I wll say about last night is that there was a lot of thunderstorm activity about and that may well have impacted my reception. I'll know better the next time I have a MY9 game and some better weather.



thanks t-max, we can always count on a play by play of your my9 reception after *EACH & EVERY* yankee game they air


----------



## avguy53

Question for the experts:


I get family cable (though I'm paying for basic)...this is because they never climbed the pole to put the filter on.


I now have the means to record HDTV via a Hauppague bix which takes the component outputs of a STB and outputs it via USB where it writes a avchd file to my pc's hard drive.

*Now, if I pick up a STB from my cable provider and start using it, will it trigger a flag that Im paying for basic but getting family?*


This wasn't my fault, I just never bothered correcting them.



Thanks,


JAS


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22160882
> 
> 
> thanks t-max, we can always count on a play by play of your my9 reception after *EACH & EVERY* yankee game they air



You are quite welcome. I only do it for you, ya know.











Perhaps Friday nite's issues had something to do with "the strike"?


----------



## keyboard21

Is Channel 45/55 Still off the air?


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 45 is still dark!


Separately, 2.2 has gone back to a 16:9 and it continues to be transmitted incorrectly with a vertically "squashed" picture

when viewed in Wide Screen!


Amazing that the flagship station of the CBS Television Network can't get its act together!!!!!


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22163844
> 
> 
> Is Channel 45/55 Still off the air?


The same with me, I liked it - it's gone,gone


----------



## AloEuro

I wonder to what extent, the M/H devices interfere with regular OTA signal, normally strong ch. have pixelation regularly, even strong like 68 Telefutura, most likely the satelite providers will claim there is no disruption of their signals to TV, others say there is no scientific proof, but the only experts with value are you gentlemen


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22164749
> 
> 
> The same with me, I liked it - it's gone,gone



This has been previously answered.


In post 15939.


In response to your question 3 weeks ago.


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> I wonder to what extent, the M/H devices interfere with regular OTA signal,



Shouldn't interfere at all.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *avguy53*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22161469
> 
> 
> Question for the experts:
> 
> I get family cable (though I'm paying for basic)...this is because they never climbed the pole to put the filter on.
> 
> I now have the means to record HDTV via a Hauppague bix which takes the component outputs of a STB and outputs it via USB where it writes a avchd file to my pc's hard drive.
> *Now, if I pick up a STB from my cable provider and start using it, will it trigger a flag that Im paying for basic but getting family?*
> 
> This wasn't my fault, I just never bothered correcting them.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JAS



The cable-card provided with your rented STB will be keyed to only provide the programming you pay for.


What system are you on that Family Cable is still in the clear? I am under the impression that CV has dumped analog content all together, and moved everything to QAM, with only Broadcast Basic provided in the clear. (YMMV in the 5 boroughs)



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## kickass69

That's not the case completely yet. Most of New Jersey still has analog. In the Morris County system I'm in we still have 41 analog channels though by the end of September most of the NJ systems should be all digital.


----------



## MrKenmore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22153331
> 
> 
> Mr Kenmore,
> 
> You probably know this but the CM4228 is not designed for VHF channels like 11.1, 7.1, 13.1. While it is a combo UHF/VHF antenna it is primarily a UHF one. That being said there were times when I was getting 7.1 around 90% plus reception. Lately its been in the 70s to low 80s.
> 
> 11.1 has always been a problem for me with the CM4228. Th best I can do is the 60's to sometimes low 70s. Ditto 13.1.
> 
> The best way to get the VHF stations is with a dedicated VHF antenna. Otherwise it is going to be a problem that may not be worth moving your antenna for as moving it can possibly cause problems with other stations. You might get lucky though.



That's a really good point. I never thought of that. But it's so obvious now that you mentioned it! I also have a Winegard HD7697P that is currently not hooked up. Maybe I could give it a try. The nice thing about the 4228 is its size. The Winegard HD7697P is a monster of an antenna.


Thanks again!


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joeschmoe007*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22159058
> 
> 
> Is Antenna TV no longer available in NYC area? I used to receive it but not anymore.


My neighbor, older woman aked me to move her roof Antena, because she could not get 11-2 on her DTV while she had perfect reception on 11-1, she is too old to understand the explanation. The point is that there are other people who from time to time who d'nt get the 11-2, while others like me with converter box get it


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ADTech*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15990#post_22165453
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> I wonder to what extent, the M/H devices interfere with regular OTA signal,
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't interfere at all.
Click to expand...

The theoretical reasoning is this , this is all example - if DTV signal should travel at speed of 100 m/h and cellphone satelite provider shoul go 200 mph, the higher speed should detour the lower speed of DTV creating interference/pixelation before the signals disengage, or in reverse way the DTV going faster for miliseconds carrying slower m/h signal then separated creating pixelation. However, this is all theoretical, I do not have any devices to measure it, it is not that important


----------



## Trip in VA

Uhhh... all signals travel at the speed of light, give or take an adjustment for atmosphere.


- Trip


----------



## ProjectSHO89

You'd have to be going pretty dang fast for Doppler shift to affect reception...


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22172526
> 
> 
> Uhhh... all signals travel at the speed of light, give or take an adjustment for atmosphere.
> 
> - Trip


I was under the impression that only God generated matters travel with speed of light, are you saying that the CBS, NBC etc generate signal at speed of light? The mile usage I used for simple understanding

On the other hand, the speed of light is like the train and the men created signal like passenger.


----------



## ADTech

Radio/television signals travel at the speed of light minus a (very) small correction for the atmospheric "drag".



The rest of your statements don't make any sense.


----------



## d3193




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22177474
> 
> 
> I was under the impression that only God generated matters travel with speed of light, are you saying that the CBS, NBC etc generate signal at speed of light? The mile usage I used for simple understanding
> 
> On the other hand, the speed of light is like the train and the men created signal like passenger.



Both light and radio/TV transmissions are electromagnetic waves. The difference is in the frequency of the waves. They travel at the same speed.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/15930#post_22098045
> 
> 
> 
> At 2 corrections in your rant.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Telemundo is still broadcasting OTA crystal clear.
> 
> 
> 
> 2) WLNY still broadcasts OTA on RF 47, and is still on the air. Ch 45 was just a repeater for RF 47.




Ok So why was the repeater taken down? They lost many more viewers. If RF 47 went off the air now. They will lose less viewers then when they took down the repeater..



45 was a good add on for OTA viewers, It had movies and repeated some daytime shows


This shows proof that not all mergers are good for viewers.


----------



## SnellKrell

CBS, the new owner of WLN,Y felt it didn't need or want the repeater stations including 45 -

cable/satellite carriage would surfice.


The repeater stations were sold separately and the new owner, more than likely will sell

the frequencies - not necessarily for use as television stations.


The owner is now in control of valuable bandwidth!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22177986
> 
> 
> CBS, the new owner of WLN,Y felt it didn't need or want the repeater stations including 45 -
> 
> cable/satellite carriage would surfice.
> 
> The repeater stations were sold separately and the new owner, more than likely will sell
> 
> the frequencies - not necessarily for use as television stations.
> 
> The owner is now in control of valuable bandwidth!



So in other words. NYC OTA viewers get the shaft. While CBS sells the bandwith.


How is that fair?I bet many wish CBS never purchased WLNY. They had good movies. They should put it on 2.2 instead of that bad sub they got now.


PS thanks for the reply


----------



## SnellKrell

CBS didn't sell the translators - never interested in them.


WLNY's previous owner did the deed!


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22185519
> 
> 
> CBS didn't sell the translators - never interested in them.
> 
> WLNY's previous owner did the deed!



And besides WLNY was a mostly Long Island geared station.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22185519
> 
> 
> CBS didn't sell the translators - never interested in them.
> 
> WLNY's previous owner did the deed!



Ok I understand now. The deal did not include the repeaters.


----------



## SnellKrell

WLNY's previous owner sold the 3 repeaters, Mineola, Morristown and Stamford for $6,500,000!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22185744
> 
> 
> WLNY's previous owner sold the 3 repeaters, Mineola, Morristown and Stamford for $6,500,000!



OK so has CBS given thought to putting it on 2.2 or 2.3


Didn't they improve the news part of the station? Why spend the money for 1/3 the viewers?


----------



## SnellKrell

Probably not.


WCBS's corporate hand was forced to initiate 2.2 - CBS New York+ -

which although poorly executed, serves a purpose.


Unitl the station had to go with 2.2 recently, CBS hadn't used a

subchannel for years.


I would imagine that WCBS is perfectly content with WLNY's carriage via

cable and satellite providers and has no real interest in putting WLNY

on a subchannel.


----------



## mikepier

Some pretty good tropo action going on this morning. I am picking up Ch 8.1 WTNH out of New Haven, CT (real VHF10). Its about 59 miles away from me at 2 edge reception, and plus its off axis about 90-100 degrees to where my antenna is pointed right now, which is towards the ESB.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22177937
> 
> 
> Ok So why was the repeater taken down? They lost many more viewers. If RF 47 went off the air now. They will lose less viewers then when they took down the repeater..
> 
> 45 was a good add on for OTA viewers, It had movies and repeated some daytime shows
> 
> This shows proof that not all mergers are good for viewers.



Well, one other roll-down impact from the sell has been a reduction is these repeated daytime shows as a result of SYNDEX requirements. WLNY had to drop Jeopardy!, Wheel, and many other shows because the new owner did not have the right to air such shows in NYC. Those shows are aired on *other* NYC stations.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## AloEuro

Last week for the first time the full scan crossed the 70 barrier - 73 ch. including doubles, audios, edited out under 50 ch.

Yesterday the full scan gave 63 ch. - edited to 45ch. under 50 ch.


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22195251
> 
> 
> Well, one other roll-down impact from the sell has been a reduction is these repeated daytime shows as a result of SYNDEX requirements. WLNY had to drop Jeopardy!, Wheel, and many other shows because the new owner did not have the right to air such shows in NYC. Those shows are aired on *other* NYC stations.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Doug, are you saying that WLNY had to give up airing "Jeopardy" and "Wheel" because CBS bought the station?


WLNY, with the new CBS ownership, continues to be licensed to Riverhead, Long Island, NY and continues to

transmit its signal from Middle Island.


In fact, the WLNY, under CBS ownership, now has less of presence in New York City with the loss of Channel 45.1,

the station's translator - WLIG whic was located in Manhattan.


SYNDEX program exclusivity is not base on cities, but on Nielsen DMAs (Designated Market Areas).


WLNY was and is part of the New York DMA.


Not really sure why those shows are gone:


Too expensive?

WABC invoked exclusivity because the station is now owned by WCBS?

Didn't fit new management's needs?


Anyone out there new the real story?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22195341
> 
> 
> Anyone out there new the real story?



I don't have the whole article, because Newsday's site give me a 404 when clicking to read more.... but...


Verne Gay, Newsday 2012-04-05 wrote:


> Quote:
> WLNY/55 - now owned by CBS - has dropped daily telecasts of "Wheel of Fortune" and "Jeopardy!" because of a complicated rule known as "syndicated exclusivity," or "syndex." A few readers have asked and we can definitely state - they aren't coming back so you'll have to get your "Whee/""Jeopardy" fix at WABC/7. Per a CBS spokesman, "WABC has the syndex rights to air "Jeopardy" and "Wheel of Fortune" in NYC, which means WLNY could only air those shows in a portion of tri-state area. Prior to last week, WLNY provided two... more »


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## SnellKrell

Doug -


Thanks for the response.


I was able to access the rest of the WCBS spokeman's quote:



"Before last week, WLNY provided two feeds to local cable providers, one with the station's full schedule and a second feed with syndex programs blacked out, the spokesman said.


But, he added, Ch. 55 has now converted to HD -- that's right, CBS has brought the station into the 21st century -- which means the station is delivering one feed, the HD one, throughout the tristate area, which means the syndex rule has kicked in."


That's the answer - there had been 2 feeds - one of which protected WABC's rights to the two game shows. Now, with the station transmitting in HD, there's only 1 feed, ergo bye-bye "Jeopardy" and "Wheel."


----------



## tjeremiah

I dont know if this has been mentioned but 2.2 is now playing kids cartoons...


----------



## T-Max

Last night I was forced to watch the Fox Yankees game on 5.2 so I moved my antenna to the "MY9 position." Reception was very good -- a solid 84 to 85% -- which translates to reception with no issues. But that lasted only a couple of innings. Perhaps from ~7 PM to ~ 8 PM. Then reception got spotty for another couple of innings until I basically lost any kind of good reception. I got no reception at all after the top of the 7th with 2 outs. If I had noted the times I'd give them here (as opposed to pegging the time to innings).


Anyway, point being that reception was very spotty for me last night. Actually, there's another main point to follow, but I pause to point out the spotty reception last night. I note that there were T-storms in the area but I don't believe any were located around the ESB or anywhere between me and the ESB, so I dunno if that would account.


Reception of MY9 this morning appeared to be very good. I had it on for an hour or more (w/ no sound) just to check it out and it was pretty solid. Actually quite solid.


The REAL point of my post this morning is that I wuz just up on my roof moving the antenna around looking for a "sweet spot" and I think I might have found it. This spot turns out to be only ~20 inches back of my main spot (my original location -- not the new "MY9" location) and 4-5 inches to the left. I can locate some mounting hardware there and will do so later this week. It's VERY sensitive as to precise location. Moving the antenna just a tad causes reception to drop. I can't tell how much because I'm going by the audible beeps my box makes at the transition from 84% to 85%, which I can hear when I'm up there (if there's not too much neighborhood noise!). So I'll mount it there and fiddle around with it some more.


So my point is that it doesn't take much in the way of relocation of my antenna to affect my multipath problem, if that's what it really is. My other "MY9 spot" is ~ 8 ft. away from my original location. This new spot is only a few inches away from the original location and it gave me a very solid 85% (at the least) whereas my "MY9 spot" wasn't giving me anything close to a solid 85% this morning. Perhaps a more-or-less-solid 84%, but certainly not a solid 85%. I can tell that from the audible beeps. So this new spot, just a few inches away from the orignnal spot (which gives me zip), gives me what appears to be a solid 85% or more.


Go figure.


And, as I say, my original spot gives me basically nothing at all.


One other thing to note is that I did a scan for my Philly stations after fiddling with the antenna and I picked up a new station. It's this one (blurb from Wikipedia):

_WACP-DT Channel 4 Atlantic City. The Federal Communications Commission has recently awarded a license for a full-power digital TV station at Atlantic City on VHF channel 4._


AC is ~100 mi away from me (as the crow flies). It's coming in pretty strong.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22171283
> 
> 
> My neighbor, older woman aked me to move her roof Antena, because she could not get 11-2 on her DTV while she had perfect reception on 11-1, she is too old to understand the explanation. The point is that there are other people who from time to time who d'nt get the 11-2, while others like me with converter box get it



She is too old to understand the explanation?


What IS the explanation?


You say she has a "DTV." I assume this means she's not using a converter box or other STB. It would therefore seem unlikely to me that her problem would be "tuner related." But I suppose it could be.


My point is that I've seen this kind of issue (sort of) with my VOOM box. It fails to properly handle the subchannels on WLVT out of Allentown and simply gives me the main channel programming on the 2 subchannels as well as on the main channel.


That's a bit different than not getting a subchannel at all, but maybe it's somehow a related kind of problem?


Does she get 11.3, which is ThisTV? You only mention 11.2 (AntennaTV)


Since you say she has a DTV, I would assume that her tuner should be sufficiently up to date and thus able to receive the subchannels. My VOOM box is an older box and can be expected to have issues of this sort.


BTW, I posted quite some time ago on the question of whether or not the subchannels are broadcast at the same "strength" as the main channel. The experts say there's no difference but I clearly seem to get just a tad lower strength on some subchannels. But it's never more than 1%, so I wouldn't think this would account for your lady's problem, particularly if her 11.1 reception is solid.


----------



## AloEuro

The older woman has DigitalTV Sony Brava, it took while to explain that she has no problem, most likely the 11-2 did not broadcast when she was watching it, then she let me see the 'problem' and all three 11-1,2,3 were fine.

However, some time the 11 ch. has large fluctuation, it shows pixelation, in fact this weekend all major channels had weak signals, but it could be Antenna related, overload


----------



## SnellKrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22200038
> 
> 
> I dont know if this has been mentioned but 2.2 is now playing kids cartoons...



The FCC mandates that commercial television stations program a minimun of 3 hours a week of children's programming.


2.2 schedules same on Saturdays from 9:00 a.m. to noon..


----------



## speedlaw

Since Channel Two is the topic....maybe you guys know !


I'm north of NYC on the Hudson, and have a line of sight to NYC, almost. My antenna, a far fringe UHF/VHF Radio Shack (copy of the Wingard), is pointed at NYC. My UHF section is a large corner reflector with about ten elements. I get all the NY channels, even the low power digital station on VHF channel 2. (Back in the day, I'd get Philly stations if we had an inversion.)


Most of my NYC stations come in with 85%-95% and are solid. Channel 2, RF 38, was always a bit lower but over 70%. In the last few months, channel 38 has dropped off quite a bit, and my older Sony units have a hard time locking it. My newer Tivo also has this issue-the tuner in my Panasonic TV does best, but even it loses lock sometimes.


I don't think my antenna has changed, as the other stations continue at the same signal strength. It's quite confusing, unless WCBS has lowered power or changed patterns. If the antenna was off, then all stations, or at least all UHF stations, would be off. Nope, 95% for VHF 7, and 89% for UHF channel 4, but 50-65% for channel 2 and lock/pixel/unlock.


Any ideas ?


----------



## SnellKrell

This may very well have nothing to do with your problem - but WCBS is RF Channel 33; WWOR is RF Channel 38!


WCBS continues to transmit from its ESB UHF Combiner antenna which is omnidirectional.


Concerning power, WCBS either has or will be increasing its power. It may very well have completed this work.

The station is coming in stronger than ever for me in Manhattan.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22203859
> 
> 
> Since Channel Two is the topic....maybe you guys know !
> 
> ... Channel 2, RF 38, was always a bit lower but over 70%. In the last few months, channel 38 has dropped off quite a bit, ...50-65% for channel 2 and lock/pixel/unlock.
> 
> Any ideas ?



I am also confused. Are you talking about channel 2 @ RF 33 or channel 9 @ RF 38?


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22204052
> 
> 
> I am also confused. Are you talking about channel 2 @ RF 33 or channel 9 @ RF 38?



Sorry !! RF 33 is weak. Virtual 9 on RF 38 is strong.


----------



## LenL

Speedlaw,


Your problem is not unusual. I have 2 antennas and they both at one time received channel 2 in the 90's. Now my channel master cm 4228 antenna only picks it up in the low 70's. No apparent reason for the change in reception. Meanwhile my homebuilt antenna which is mounted about 15 feet lower still picks up channel 2 in the low to mid 90s.


I have no answers for you that you will like. As another poster found out moving the antenna may help. Could hurt your other channels.


----------



## speedlaw

Thank you. I'm also a ham, so I've played with other radios and know it can be funny. I once put an antenna on my rear deck about ten feet up, and got perfect reception and transmission to a local repeater station. I put that same antenna on the roof and suddenly got bad copy into that local repeater, meanwhile, I am clear as a bell with only 5 watts into NYC repeaters and others. Hams learn quickly while mobile that the difference between "no copy" and "perfect" can be one car length.


If you too have seen the same symptoms, it's not me. The workaround is to use the CATV "702" for HDTV channel 2.......


----------



## LenL

[If you too have seen the same symptoms, it's not me. The workaround is to use the CATV "702" for HDTV channel 2.......[/quote]


I don't have cable to do that.


----------



## AloEuro

Estrilla may have been kicked out of ch.11 and it landed on 24-1 WASA, however, WASA 24-1 shows lot of infomercial, every time Estrilla shows program it shows its logo in right side lower corner, if there is no logo, then it is not Estrilla


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22171283
> 
> 
> My neighbor, older woman aked me to move her roof Antena, because she could not get 11-2 on her DTV while she had perfect reception on 11-1, she is too old to understand the explanation. The point is that there are other people who from time to time who d'nt get the 11-2, while others like me with converter box get it





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22200328
> 
> 
> BTW, I posted quite some time ago on the question of whether or not the subchannels are broadcast at the same "strength" as the main channel. The experts say there's no difference but I clearly seem to get just a tad lower strength on some subchannels. But it's never more than 1%, so I wouldn't think this would account for your lady's problem, particularly if her 11.1 reception is solid.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16020#post_22200266
> 
> 
> One other thing to note is that I did a scan for my Philly stations after fiddling with the antenna and I picked up a new station. It's this one (blurb from Wikipedia):
> _WACP-DT Channel 4 Atlantic City. The Federal Communications Commission has recently awarded a license for a full-power digital TV station at Atlantic City on VHF channel 4._
> 
> AC is ~100 mi away from me (as the crow flies). It's coming in pretty strong.



FWIW, I am getting the main channel 4.1 on that new Atlantic City station, but I am getting the "no signal" message on its subchannel 4.2


I know there was a discussion some time ago (might have been on the Philly board) about how the subchannels are broadcast at the same strength as the main channel and if ya get the main channel you will also be getting the subchannel(s) cuz they are at the same RF at the same strength, yada yada.


But I am getting the "no signal" message for 4.2 while my strength on 4.1 (@ RF 4) is 90 - 91%.


Now, I will concede that this is with my VOOM box, which does have issues cuz it's an older generation box. But I believe this is the first time I've ever seen it give a "no signal" message for a subchannel when the main channel is fine.


I've seen it having trouble distinguishing the subchannels from the main channel (which it does with WLVT out of Allentown) and thus giving me the main channel programming on all the subchannels, and having conflicts with TVGOS, which bombs it out causing it to reboot, but this is new to me.


So is it possible that a station could just "not broadcast" a subchannel so that when you tune to it you get no signal at all?


Seems like something that's possible, no?


----------



## Trip in VA

Last time I saw data for WACP, it was broadcasting PSIP for 4-2 but no audio or video.


- Trip


----------



## JoeWS

WACP trasnmit from Waterford NJ, which is at the east end of Camden County. The same location as WMCN 44 and NJTV 23.


----------



## tjeremiah

does anybody know why 12.1 shows better than 31.1 ? I dont know what it is but even during a thunderstorm and during windy periods,the picture rarely breaks up. The picture is also a lot clearer. Both signal strengths are at 65%.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22226189
> 
> 
> does anybody know why 12.1 shows better than 31.1 ? I dont know what it is but even during a thunderstorm and during windy periods,the picture rarely breaks up. The picture is also a lot clearer. Both signal strengths are at 65%.



Perhaps 12 doesn't have mobile dtv content that 31 does so more bandwith is dedicated to the main channel.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjeremiah*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22226189
> 
> 
> does anybody know why 12.1 shows better than 31.1 ? I dont know what it is but even during a thunderstorm and during windy periods,the picture rarely breaks up. The picture is also a lot clearer. Both signal strengths are at 65%.[/quote
> 
> 
> 
> For some 12-1 is better and for others the 31-1 is better, and for me it's the opposite, ion31-1,2,3 is solid and dependable and 12-1 is terrible, worse than ch.39


----------



## AloEuro

Speaking about ch.39 WNYN - 8 streams, 7 streams 720x480i and one 39-2 stream 540x480i 30Hz ,

4ch. -TLR -show the same program, 2ch.show AV - Aliento Vision (same as on 63-7), 1 ch.HSN (on 60). and 1 infomercials

The signal is 40% locked -as Ken H would say and Trip agree - giving 100% PQ.

All Spanish


----------



## dagger666

i'm tired with the battle of locking in channel 11,7,13 so when will they move the broadcasting tower to the new world trade buildings?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22252008
> 
> 
> i'm tired with the battle of locking in channel 11,7,13 so when will they move the broadcasting tower to the new world trade buildings?



The cost of relocating to WTC may not outweigh the benefits. If everyone still received their local stations OTA, then the broadcasters may be compelled to relocate. But since many don't, I wouldn't hold my breath.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dagger666*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22252008
> 
> 
> i'm tired with the battle of locking in channel 11,7,13 so when will they move the broadcasting tower to the new world trade buildings?


It's interesting that newcomers like 18/63 ch. and or 3/50 ch. or 24ch. have better, stronger, more reliable signal than the old, worn out oldtimers like 7,11, or over the hill 13


----------



## LenL

There is an explanation. From my experience.


1. Many antennas sold and installed are designed to either get UHF only or if they are combo UHF/VHF UHF is designed first and VHF secondary (importance).


2. VHF antennas are more in need of being high up, while UHF antennas have sweet spots that can be high or low in mounting.


3. Combo UHF/VHF YAGI antennas can be very big.


I have a CM 4228 UHF/VHF antenna that IS NOT really designed for VHF. The elements are really too short for good VHF reception. However as I have it very high up I can receive with some pixelation 11, 13 and 58. I get them in the 60s. I can usually get 7.1 in the 80's. It may be transmitting with more power.


Anyway I'm sure others can giev some more reasons. I have also found the VHF stations can be impacted by rogue LED interference.


----------



## ramonv

According to https://www.facebook.com/notes/mundofox/encuentra-tu-mundofox/410450482352627 WPXO-LD will become MundoFOX in NYC.


----------



## SubaruB4

I'm having issues.. a issue with WNET I've never had before.. after a scan again I can no longer pick up 13-1 what happen to this channel? And I can't get 4-1 Out of all the channels I'd trade WCBS for WNBC.


I don't want to move my antenna since I have very limited range (like 1-3 degrees) that I can move it so WNBC is always hit or miss but it would be nice to watch the olympics..


----------



## SubaruB4

Hmm well the station is back now.. odd


wow Samsungs auto search sucks..


the auto search did not bring up 4-1 which is channel 28.. So I punch in 28 and 4-1 and it's sub channels get added..


It seems like every so often it might drop the channel due to no signal


----------



## SubaruB4

Odd it's off again showing no signal what so ever.. but yesterday I think it was showing about -30 dB with almost full bars.. now nothing.. oddly yesterday I was having issues with WNET and WNBC but today WNET is working but WNBC is not..



Can't be a signal issue since I watched the whole Olympics last night from 8pm to around 1 AM no break ups at all.


----------



## RichNorthNJ

1. SINCE CABLEVISION DISCONTINUED IT'S ANALOG BASIC CABLE FEED IN NORTHERN NJ LAST TUES, I DUMPED CABLEVISION & NOW RELY ONLY ON OTA.

I USE THE ZINWELL DIG TO ANALOG CONVERTER BOX (WHICH IS PRETTY GOOD) SINCE IT HAS A TIMER THAT ALLOWS ME 8 EVENTS SO I CAN STILL RECORD WITH MY VCR.









HOWEVER!!! FOR THE 1ST TIME EVER - WHEN I WATCHED TODAY'S OTA METS GAME ON WPIX 11.2 CONVERTED FROM DIGITAL TO ANALOG, I SAW SLIGHTLY CHOPPY MOVEMENT OF THE ACTION THE WHOLE GAME!!
















IS THIS WHAT I HAVE TO LOOK FORWARD TO IN THE FUTURE?







I HAVE BEEN WATCHIN ANALOG BASEBALL (CABLE SINCE 1983 & OVA IN THE 60'S & 70'S & NEVER SEEN CHOPPY MOVEMENT BEFORE!! I DID NOT SEE CHOPPY MOVEMENT ON 11.2 OR 11.3, HOWEVER.

I HAVE A 1995 SHARP CRT TUBE SET. I WILL FIND OUT NEXT TIME IF WWOR 9.1 & FOX 5.1 HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH BASEBALL.









I FIND THAT SLIGHTY CHOPPY MOVEMENT IS V E R Y V E R Y ANNOYING.

AND GET THIS!! I WAS GETTING 100% BEST SIGNAL QUALITY & 100% SIGNAL STRENGTH TOO WITH WPIX 11.1!!! & 1080 RESOLUTION I THINK









11.2 & 11.3 HAD 480 RESOLTION. I THINK. NOT SURE WHAT FOX OR WOR ARE.

WOULD THIS CHOPPY PROBLEM BE ELIMINATED, OR MADE EVEN WORSE WITH A DIGITAL TUNER FLAT SCREEN TV OR A SIGNAL BROADCASTED IN LOWER RESOLUTION?


2. Last time I checked, 42.3 hot tv channel was off the air - what is up with the non religious channels that have

occupied the 42.n frequencies in the last couple of years? WHAT A DISGRACE TO TV IN GENERAL.









I have seen the following:

Just color bars - off the air without warning for many days

No sound, but there is picture

No picture, but there is sound

Color went out - starsky & hutch was black & white for a while with faint color stiripes going up & down the screen







tho at least I was able to see it, until they pulled the channel.









Sound not synched with lips!!







VEYR VERY ANNOYING TOO









I think this 42.N frequency should be pulled off the air by the fcc. Is someone or something else using it?







- I can't believe that Tuff TV, Hottv channel, & one other that I forget the name of, that have been or "are" at 42.n, ALL had similar equipment problems!! Could it be simply certain 42.n frequencies?


3. By accident, I noticed sunday that not only a PC & a power transformer that are ON can cut the signal to certain channels or make them macroblock, but I also noticed that a window fan on medium speed can do the same.







& also if I simply MOVE the power WIRE for my amplified signal indoor rabbit ears antenna from Big Lots!!
















Or even if I raise my feet high up when laying on the couch.

















All I know is in the 60's I had a 19" black & white MOTOROLA tv that had ONE extendable adjustable antenna that was a part of the set.

ALL 3 major channels ALWAYS came in & NONE of the above problems EVER occured. NEVER EVER!!

The worst problems were maybe a little snow sometimes or ghosting - but I could watch the shows!! AND THERE WAS ALWAYS SMOOTH MOVEMENT!!!

I did not bother with a UHF antenna - I did not NEED pbs back then - the programs on CBS, ABC, & NBC were all good & many times I did not know which to watch.

Disadvantages:

I had only 1 set - expensive $150 in 1965 money

No remote control.

Non solid state tv - would break down every couple years - called repairnam to replace tube(s) inside

No way to record ANYTHING - no vcr's until late 70s & then they were VERY expensive & primitive. llol


Not sure which time period was worse then or now.










4. Is anyone in the Northern NJ area able to pick up the 21.n (WLIW on long island for ex) or the 48.n (WRNN for ex) channels with indoor [amplified] rabbit ears or roof antenna? I would think not. I was told WLIW was too far from Garfield, NJ to pick up, for ex.


----------



## RichNorthNJ

OOPS I MEANT I WATCHED THE METS ON WPIX 11.1 - NOT 11.2


----------



## SubaruB4

What's with all the caps?


----------



## LenL

RichNorth Jersey,


How far from the ESB are you? You probably need a better antenna. With the digita transition many antennas people have work fine but for many others they need a better antenna.


----------



## SubaruB4

I wonder if I should switch antennas? I'm still using my silver sensor outdoors.. It's so weird 2 days ago I watched the channel without a breakup and now I get little to no signal.. WNBC is on UHF right? Does the conditions outside play a role in it? I don't have direct line of sight because I'm unable to raise the antenna high and I live on the first floor of a 3 story apartment.


I wonder if I should upgrade the antenna? But not sure if it would help?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22264168
> 
> 
> I wonder if I should switch antennas? I'm still using my silver sensor outdoors.. It's so weird 2 days ago I watched the channel without a breakup and now I get little to no signal.. WNBC is on UHF right? Does the conditions outside play a role in it? I don't have direct line of sight because I'm unable to raise the antenna high and I live on the first floor of a 3 story apartment.
> 
> I wonder if I should upgrade the antenna? But not sure if it would help?




Seeing as you are about 20 miles or more from the ESB, you are using an indoor antenna, you have no line of sight and are on the 1st floor I would say you are lucky to get anything. Put an antenna on the roof and you would be in great shape!


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22265027
> 
> 
> Seeing as you are about 20 miles or more from the ESB, you are using an indoor antenna, you have no line of sight and are on the 1st floor I would say you are lucky to get anything. Put an antenna on the roof and you would be in great shape!



That's going to be impossible.. I live in a apartment.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16050#post_22265369
> 
> 
> That's going to be impossible.. I live in a apartment.



Only if you talk to the owner and he says you can't go on the roof and install an antenna and drop the coax to the first floor on the outside of the building and into your apartment. Also I would think there may even be an antenna on the roof or at least coax running to each apartment from when there was an antenna..


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WZME Bridgeport May Soon Be Viewable In NYC Area*


On July 29, 2012, NRJ TV NY License Co., LLC. had the call-sign of its recent Bridgeport, Connecticut broadcast Television acquisition changed from WSAH to WZME. The new call-sign is widely believed to represent the programming broadcast over its primary channel, *Me-TV*, a television network owned by Weigel Broadcasting and distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer that airs classic television sitcoms, dramas and classic commercials from the 1950s through the 1980s. This correlates to the on-air branding, *Me-TV New York*.


Although technically in the New York DMA, the Channel 42 signal upon which WZME Bridgeport transmits is not present in much of the five boroughs of New York City, Long Island, or New Jersey. That soon may change, however, based upon a June 2012 filing with the fcc by NRJ which calls for a Digital Television Distributed Transmission System (DTS). The DTS2 facility the station plans to construct would be located at 350 5th Avenue, Manhattan, NY., commonly known as the Empire State Building. The signal will be suppressed towards the southwest to protect full-power WTXF-TV Philadelphia, but the contour has been designed to ensure that the signal will be receivable in areas of New York City, Long Island, and Northeast New Jersey. The full application and associated predicted coverage map can be found here:

FCC Application - BPCDT - 20120601ARY 


This application is significantly different from one its former owners, Multicultural Broadcasting, filed a few years earlier in an effort to increase its value. That application called for moving the station to Channel 41 and its transmitter to the Empire State Building. That application, for numerous reasons, was denied.


Approval of this application would realize a significant increase in audience population, while allowing the station to continue serving its Bridgeport, Connecticut audience. As a full-power broadcast TV station, such increased penetration could also wield powerful leverage in securing Must-Carry status of its primary stream on regional multichannel video programming distributors, also known as MVPDs.


WZME Bridgeport transmits on RF Channel 42 (Virtual Channel 43). The station presently carries Me-TV from 2AM to 10PM weekdays and 24 hours a day on weekends via its primary stream, 43-1. RTV programming is available on 43-2.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22274007
> 
> *WZME Bridgeport May Soon Be Viewable In NYC Area*
> On July 29, 2012, NRJ TV NY License Co., LLC. had the call-sign of its recent Bridgeport, Connecticut broadcast Television acquisition changed from WSAH to WZME. The new call-sign is widely believed to represent the programming broadcast over its primary channel, *Me-TV*, a television network owned by Weigel Broadcasting and distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer that airs classic television sitcoms, dramas and classic commercials from the 1950s through the 1980s. This correlates to the on-air branding, *Me-TV New York*.
> 
> Although technically in the New York DMA, the Channel 42 signal upon which WZME Bridgeport transmits is not present in much of the five boroughs of New York City, Long Island, or New Jersey. That soon may change, however, based upon a June 2012 filing with the fcc by NRJ which calls for a Digital Television Distributed Transmission System (DTS). The DTS2 facility the station plans to construct would be located at 350 5th Avenue, Manhattan, NY., commonly known as the Empire State Building. The signal will be suppressed towards the southwest to protect full-power WTXF-TV Philadelphia, but the contour has been designed to ensure that the signal will be receivable in areas of New York City, Long Island, and Northeast New Jersey. The full application and associated predicted coverage map can be found here:
> FCC Application - BPCDT - 20120601ARY
> 
> This application is significantly different from one its former owners, Multicultural Broadcasting, filed a few years earlier in an effort to increase its value. That application called for moving the station to Channel 41 and its transmitter to the Empire State Building. That application, for numerous reasons, was denied.
> 
> Approval of this application would realize a significant increase in audience population, while allowing the station to continue serving its Bridgeport, Connecticut audience. As a full-power broadcast TV station, such increased penetration could also wield powerful leverage in securing Must-Carry status of its primary stream on regional multichannel video programming distributors, also known as MVPDs.
> 
> WZME Bridgeport transmits on RF Channel 42 (Virtual Channel 43). The station presently carries Me-TV from 2AM to 10PM weekdays and 24 hours a day on weekends via its primary stream, 43-1. RTV programming is available on 43-2.



Hey thanks that is good news. The more channels the better, Now if you can just get channel 45/55/10 back. CBS needs to bring it back to NYC


----------



## Aero 1

can someone check wwor signal for me? i lost it on some of my equipment and the ones that work, its showing a drastic drop in signal strength. seeing it on 5.2 also obviously. thanks.


----------



## SnellKrell

Fine here In the East 60s in Manhattan using an indoor antenna


Normal S/N reading!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22276513
> 
> 
> can someone check wwor signal for me? i lost it on some of my equipment and the ones that work, its showing a drastic drop in signal strength. seeing it on 5.2 also obviously. thanks.



I'm having trouble with it too.


----------



## LenL

Except depending on where you live you may need a rotor on your antenna to pick up Bridgeport.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22278270
> 
> 
> I'm having trouble with it too.



yea, signal definitely dropped at wwor. checked my setup, all my splitters, swapped things out, put them back, nothing on my end has changed and working fine.


----------



## retiredengineer

When Pete Putman was testing a variety of flat antennas at Mountain Lakes, NJ, he had trouble receiving WWOR even though he had LOS. He was able to receive the other UHF stations. The difficulty is most likely due to multipath conditions. You can try moving your antenna to different locations to see if it makes a difference, it usually does.


His full review is at:

www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=2279


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22278441
> 
> 
> yea, signal definitely dropped at wwor. checked my setup, all my splitters, swapped things out, put them back, nothing on my end has changed and working fine.



WWOR has been my weakest signal for 1-2 months now in Northern NJ. Every other channel broadcasting from the ESB comes in so much stronger than WWOR.


----------



## LenL

Up until now I was only able to receive 7.1 VHF well and it has been deteriorating from the low 90s to the low to mid 80s.


So I went and got a mid size YAGI VHF only Antenna Craft Y5-7-13 antenna which I had an installer mount on the same mast as my CM4228 just about 18 inches above it ( he dropped the CM4228 down on the mast a foot or more to do this). It has its on CM 7777 preamp.


The results are very good for me. I now receive 7.1 in the 91-93 range. I also receive 11.1 and 13.1 in the solid 80s where before they were in the 50's and 60's with pixilation and often unwatchable. So a simple antenna change brought big improvements.


My next mission is to improve UHF for some of my stations and towards that end I have purchased a dedicated UHF antenna Wingard HD 9075P. I will possibly use that to replace my home built antenna or the CM4228. All depending on the results I get.


Stay tuned.....


----------



## dvdchance

Seems the former WLNY Morristown repeater, WMUN-CD is back on the air. RF45 I believe.


It is showing something called ARTS TV. At least it was yesterday afternoon when I noticed it.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, 45 is back on the air, albeit with a weaker signal than it had been - at least for me.


One of my receivers can't pick it up at all!


For the record, when the station was a WLNY translator, is was licensed to

Mineola, L.I.,NY - its license has now been transfered to New York City.


----------



## keyboard21

May I ask where is the transmitter now? I remember it was never on ESB. Something like 80th street?


So people in NYC can now get the signal? If so this is good news. They had some newer older movies on the weekends.


Can anyone provide some technical info. The signal strength and coverage map.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## SnellKrell

The transmission site is Trump Wold Tower, East 47th Street and 1st Avenue in Manhattan.


Here is the Rabbitears site/page for WMUN-CD.


Just click on the various links for more information.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WMUN


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22283220
> 
> 
> The transmission site is Trump Wold Tower, East 47th Street and 1st Avenue in Manhattan.
> 
> Here is the Rabbitears site/page for WMUN-CD.
> 
> Just click on the various links for more information.
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WMUN



Maybe I just do not know how to read this information correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong here., but I click on WMUN-Cd I get MINEOLA, NY. Not

Trump Wold Tower, East 47th Street and 1st Avenue in Manhattan.


Am I seeing this wrong? Or is it too early to see this info for Trump world tower?


I was looking for the coverage map and watts for TWT


Thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

Here's the coverage map for the station:

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1374591 


Mineola is the previous location for the station's license, it is now New York City.


Trump World Tower is the location of the transmitter and antenna.


WMUN, as far as I can tell, is "supposed" to be using the previous owner's


Vertical ERP of 15kW, with a directional pattern.


Hope this helps.


----------



## dvdchance

Any idea what their schedule is or what type of programming they will offer?


----------



## SnellKrell

Here's the Web site - straight from Google!

http://www.classicartsshowcase.org/


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22283474
> 
> 
> Here's the Web site - straight from Google!
> http://www.classicartsshowcase.org/





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22283404
> 
> 
> Here's the coverage map for the station:
> http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1374591
> 
> Mineola is the previous location for the station's license, it is now New York City.
> 
> Trump World Tower is the location of the transmitter and antenna.
> 
> WMUN, as far as I can tell, is "supposed" to be using the previous owner's
> 
> Vertical ERP of 15kW, with a directional pattern.
> 
> Hope this helps.



Exactly what I was looking for. We picked up TWT before so I see no reason why not now.


Wait a second I misunderstood. This is not WLNY? I was under the impression that WLNY was back as 45 in NYC.


This is a totally new station?


*HOW LONG IS YOUR SHOW?


We edit together a new 8 hour show every week (starting on Friday), featuring approximately 150 clips. This show is then sent out three times a day (that's 24 hours) via satellite to all of North and South America including the Bahamas and Hawaii. Your local channel then downlinks it and airs it at whatever schedule they like.


WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR CLIPS?


Most of our clips come from the companies who have graciously given us permission to air the clips, at no cost, in an effort to aid us with our public service goal of creating a new audience for the arts, provided we show no advertising, do not sell the clips, or alter them in any way. Other sources include public and private archives, Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts, the National Gallery of Art, and the Library of Congress, etc. See a short list of a few of our major providers here: Video/DVD Providers*



I guess I am disappointed. I thought CBS saw the lite. Well a new channel is a new channel.


Thanks for the information, much appreciated


----------



## SnellKrell

When CBS bought WLNY, it did not buy the three translators - Mineola (Broadcasting from Trump World Tower),

Morristown, NJ and Stamford CT., the new owner chose a new call sign WMUN-CD and is programming Classic Arts.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22279956
> 
> 
> WWOR has been my weakest signal for 1-2 months now in Northern NJ. Every other channel broadcasting from the ESB comes in so much stronger than WWOR.



looks like they increased the power again, i can lock it, but its not where it used to be.


----------



## n2ubp

UHF freqs don't like wet weather (unless your receiving a signal bounced off of an object like a cellphone tower), vegetation, especially vegetation with lots of liquid in its cellular structure and location is everything to the point of silliness. Casey, I bet your reception improves once the leaves are off the trees and we are past hurricane season.


73,


----------



## jpru34

Channel 9 was at 100% signal strength for me this morning. It hasn't been there for quite some time. Bizarre!


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22292229
> 
> 
> Channel 9 was at 100% signal strength for me this morning. It hasn't been there for quite some time. Bizarre!



its totally out for me today, on every device, even the ones i never had an issue with. signal is locked but strength drops to 0 then peaks to 30, back to 0 back to 30. something wonky is going on over there.


anyone have contact info for wwor?


----------



## SnellKrell

I was about to report once again that I've had no problems with receiving WWOR.


And that various posts about there being something wrong at the station probably

were not the case - that problems were on the viewers' end.


Just did a S/N meter reading and the signal reading is stronger than ever -

it's crazy. On my Sharp HDTV, it's registering 84%, when normally it's in

the high 60s!


The two other stations sharing the ESB UHF Combiner with WWOR are reading-out

at usual levels for me.


Is it atmospherics or has something changed at the ESB?????


----------



## LenL

I have zero reception for 9.1 with my CM4228 this AM.


The RF for 9.1 is 615.25. That antenna is also having trouble with 2.1 (CBS) which has an RF of 585.25. So they are up there in the UHF frequency. Maybe it has something to do with the frequency? In fact just about all of the TV stations with RF in the upper 500's and lower 600's are now a problem for that antenna. Including 31.1, 41.1, 47.1.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22292459
> 
> 
> I was about to report once again that I've had no problems with receiving WWOR.
> 
> Is it atmospherics or has something changed at the ESB?????



Only the latter would make sense to me as WWOR hasn't registered 100% for me for many, many months (if not longer). Alternatively, is something going on with the atmosphere today that is so special and unique to account for the increased power? I have no idea.......


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22292459
> 
> 
> I was about to report once again that I've had no problems with receiving WWOR.
> 
> And that various posts about there being something wrong at the station probably
> 
> were not the case - that problems were on the viewers' end.
> 
> Just did a S/N meter reading and the signal reading is stronger than ever -
> 
> it's crazy. On my Sharp HDTV, it's registering 84%, when normally it's in
> 
> the high 60s!
> 
> The two other stations sharing the ESB UHF Combiner with WWOR are reading-out
> 
> at usual levels for me.
> 
> Is it atmospherics or has something changed at the ESB?????



nothing has changed on my end and every frequency is normal, except rf 38. got on the roof and expected everything, checked compass headin, terminations and splitters, everything is fine. unless something grew or was placed between me and ESB that is only affect rf 38, its definitely wwor.


----------



## Aero 1

Sent an email to the VP of engineering at fox tv and he responded quickly and confirmed that its on their end. Very nice of him and i hope he doesnt mind that i share part of his email.


> Quote:
> To answer your question, we have had a failure in one of our transmitter cabinets that has resulted in WWOR’s signal being weaker than is typical. That is being worked on today and we hope to have it restored to an extent where it should work for you by early afternoon. Calculations caused us to anticipate still covering 90% of the area with this reduced power. Obviously, you are in the 10% that has suffered.
> 
> 
> If you do not have the signal restored by this afternoon, please let me know.
> 
> 
> Thanks for watching,


----------



## SnellKrell

Wonder when the problem with one of the transmitter cabinets occurred?


Aero 1 first reported the signal drop for WWOR 5 days ago!


With my never have had such high readings for the station than now -

I know it sounds strange, but I've been told by engineers that in some

cases, my signals are too strong.


Maybe a weaker signal for WWOR produces higher S/N percentages

for me.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16080#post_22292848
> 
> 
> Sent an email to the VP of engineering at fox tv and he responded quickly and confirmed that its on their end. Very nice of him and i hope he doesnt mind that i share part of his email.



Does this mean that I can expect reception to remain at or around 100% (as it was this morning) once they are done fixing the problem? I guess only time will tell.....


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22292962
> 
> 
> Does this mean that I can expect reception to remain at or around 100% (as it was this morning) once they are done fixing the problem? I guess only time will tell.....



WWOR came back on for me at 2:01 pm. I am now seeing 85 - 90% consistent signal strength 17 miles out from ESB. Sucks that they have/had issues, but thankfully it wasnt on my end. Great response time from them, hope they fixed the issue.


----------



## SnellKrell

My all-time high S/N reading for WWOR has now returned to a "normal"

66%


So, with my strange reception, I get better Signal to Noise readings

when there's a weaker signal!


----------



## LenL

It's little better for me. It is up to 19%. Better than zero but not viewable.


----------



## Michael Bazikos

I have a question about wacp-dt, channel 4. If someone is in central NJ, will it be possible for a HDTV to receive both wnbc and wacp? I know they both don't broadcast on channel 4, but tv's are designed to display both as channel 4. If someone has an antenna rotor, would they possibly receive both stations but have to rescan to display the other ch. 4?


----------



## JoeWS

I can tell you that I used to live where I got Channel 25 (WZBN) in Trenton, NJ and Channel 25 (WNYC) in New York City. When scrolling up or down thru the channels, my TV would display one 25-1 and then when scrolling up or down one, it would display the other 25-1. Perhaps the order was determined by the value of the RF channel. Don't get too excited about WACP. So far, its all infomercials.


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22293056
> 
> 
> It's little better for me. It is up to 19%. Better than zero but not viewable.



WWOR is now back to being my weakest Channel. Oh well. Having it at 100% Signal strength this morning was fun while it lasted. Atmospherics? I think not....


----------



## Greg2600

Read on a FIOS forum that Verizon will be adding MundoFOX and something called America TEVE on Monday. I think both are OTA sub channels that will originate from WNYW-FOX 5. Although I suppose they could come from WWOR also.


----------



## SnellKrell

Would imagine that it will be a sub-channel on WNYW.


WWOR already has Bounce.


----------



## Trip in VA

If only there was some kind of Internet website that might have information about this MundoFox and where it might be found.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wpxo 


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22295447
> 
> 
> If only there was some kind of Internet website that might have information about this MundoFox and where it might be found.
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wpxo
> 
> - Trip



help me understand this Trip. will this broadcast on channel 4 or channel 34? minimizing their reach with lo vhf.


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22295447
> 
> 
> If only there was some kind of Internet website that might have information about this MundoFox and where it might be found.
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wpxo
> 
> - Trip


I looked there, it wasn't updated yet.


----------



## AloEuro

CH.34 --1 CV Caribe Vision added another 34-2 A CV


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16100_100#post_22295715
> 
> 
> I looked there, it wasn't updated yet.



I added MundoFox to the listing for WPXO-LD on 7/27.


WPXO-LD has applied to move to channel 4 but has not actually made the move. I would not expect them to do so in the near future. The signal is currently operating on channel 34. It's highly directional. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1311875&map=Y 


- Trip


----------



## Greg2600

Hang on, so MundoFOX is not going to be OTA via FOX 5? Sorry, I assumed FOX would have it.


----------



## dave73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22297489
> 
> 
> Hang on, so MundoFOX is not going to be OTA via FOX 5? Sorry, I assumed FOX would have it.



I thought Fox would have made it a subchannel to either WFLD or WPWR-TV in Chicago. Instead, they affiliated with KM Communications in Chicago on WOCK-CD, which broadcasts on RF 4 at only 300 watts. The only way anyone can get this station is to have an outdoor antenna optimized for VHF-Lo, but in most cases, they'll also need a pre-amp in order to get the station as well. I have both & get this station, but doesn't stay steady on hot days. When they were at 810 watts, it was a bit more steady. Otherwise, most people won't be able to watch MundoFox on a Class A station that broadcasts on RF 4 (especially those living in Chicago. If WPXO-LD were to change from RF 34 to RF 4, it would be a major mistake, as more people have a better chance of getting an LPTV station on UHF than on VHF. Even so, it's odd that Fox isn't affiliating with their own network in most markets (especially in markets where they may have a duopoly like New York & Chicago).


----------



## Trip in VA

Fox wants MundoFox to run in HD, but the splicer does not allow for dual HD without workarounds.


(Plus, I'm sure Fox doesn't want to run dual HD.)


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21

Kind of a poll here. For everyone to answer.


If the TV fairy's granted you one Channel wish.
*
What TV channel would you like to see go OTA?*


----------



## nyctveng

WPXO already has agreements for wide cable distribution in the NYC area and aren't dependent on OTA viewers to succeed. They just need enough power and to stay on the air to reach cable headends even though most have a fiber feed.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22301043
> 
> 
> Kind of a poll here. For everyone to answer.
> 
> If the TV fairy's granted you one Channel wish.
> *
> What TV channel would you like to see go OTA?*



I have been off cable for so long I almost can't remember what's on it.


That being said my choice would be between ESPN and Playboy Channel (hahahahah).


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22302903
> 
> 
> I have been off cable for so long I almost can't remember what's on it.
> 
> That being said my choice would be between ESPN and Playboy Channel (hahahahah).



I knew someone would say this.







I should of said no PPW channels



PS how is that new arts station? on 45


----------



## Greg2600




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22297997
> 
> 
> Fox wants MundoFox to run in HD, but the splicer does not allow for dual HD without workarounds.
> 
> (Plus, I'm sure Fox doesn't want to run dual HD.)
> 
> - Trip


I see. Unfortunately, they picked a station hardly anyone can pick up. I wonder if WPXO can upgrade to a full power station?


Anyone know if these are live today on WPXO?


----------



## SnellKrell

Right now, WWOR 's S/N% is at the highest reading I've ever had - 100%.


Last week when I had high readings it meant that others were experiencing reception problems.


Is this correlation still holding?


There were a number of Forum members in NJ who were experiencing poor reception.


How are things?


----------



## LenL

Right now at 5 PM my Sharp TV off of my CM4228 antenna says 9.1 is not broadcasting because the signal is so poor..


----------



## SnellKrell

Just checked again at 5:02 - 100% S/N.


----------



## Aero 1

WWOR is back up now.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16100_100#post_22303687
> 
> 
> I see. Unfortunately, they picked a station hardly anyone can pick up. I wonder if WPXO can upgrade to a full power station?



No, FCC rules do not allow for that.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

9.1 was back up for me last night at 10 PM (I did not check earlier) and also this morning at 8:30 AM. They must be doing some work for it to up and down like this.


----------



## T-Max

I've enjoyed reading the recent WWOR (MY9) posts which appear to have begun early this month.


I haven't participated because I've been away from the board due to the fact that my last MY9 Yankee game was Tuesday, July 17. Technically, however, I was involved with "MY9" on Saturday, July 28, when the Fox game, scheduled to start at 4:05, was rain delayed and did not start until way later (maybe 7pm or later?). Philly Fox (ch 29) was scheduled to carry that game but bailed on it due to the late start. They chose to stay with the Dodgers game instead (which also started @ 4:05 or thereabouts). That meant I had to turn (and move) my antenna from its Philly orientation to my NYC "2nd position" so that I could watch the game on 5.2 which, as you all know, is a subchannel of WWOR ch 9 and also @ RF 38. That worked out okay, as far as I can recall.


I have to go to 5.2 because I've never been able to receive 5.1 @ RF 44 (or even lock it in). Strangely, however, I did manage to lock it in recently -- in fact that day -- but it's generally still unwatchable. (note: as it turned out, it was apparently quite watchable that day and it appears that I could have watched the game in HD on 5.1 instead of in SD on 5.2, but didn't realize it until it was too late)


Anyway, I had a MY9 game last night. I thus watched ch 9 from 7pm to perhaps as late as 11pm (maybe even later). My reception was essentially fine and essentially the same as it's been since I moved the antenna to my "second location" earlier this year. I think that might have been sometime in June. I posted on it at the time. The move was apparently dictated by multimath problems created by the new World Trade building.


So that's the report on WWOR (MY9) from here.


I have another game on Friday and another the following Tuesday and another on Friday, August 24.


Note that 5.1 was (again) unwatchable for me last night.


As I've been saying for a long time, ch 9's signal does seem quite mysterious. Given the recent posts that I saw, it's even more mysterious than I thought. It seems that the mystery remains.


Thankfully, all of my Philly and Allentown OTA stations appear to be issue-free. My good LOS in that direction, combined with my poor location and reception of NYC stations, dictates that I watch those OTA stations for all but the MY9 Yankee games.


----------



## LenL

T-Max


You probably told us previously but I am curious as to what stations you are able to pull in from both Philly and Allentown with good reception?


----------



## AloEuro

Occasionally, 10min. max. I watch WOR9-1 and it breaks down to 0 -Zero- giving pixelation, no signal dialog box, then I punch in 9-2 and it's perfect, no problem


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22303447
> 
> 
> I knew someone would say this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should of said no PPW channels
> 
> PS how is that new arts station? on 45


It's mixture of b/w short video of ballet- Makarova at Metropolitan Opera house, Kirov, Bolshoi, and like Andy Warhol type of shorts/movie

Sometime interesting other times more boring than me


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22309386
> 
> 
> T-Max
> 
> You probably told us previously but I am curious as to what stations you are able to pull in from both Philly and Allentown with good reception?



Len -


Here's the list -


RF channel


6 6-1 WPVI-HD

6 6-2 WPVI-LiveWel

6 6-3 WPVI-LiveWel

12 12-1 WHYY

12 12-2 Y-Arts

12 12-3 Y-Info

17 17-1 WPHL-DT (MY17)

17 17-2 AntennaTv

17 17-3 ThisTv

17 17-4 Tango Traffic

22 23-1 WNJS-DT

22 23-3 WNJS-DT3

26 3-1 KYW-DT

27 48-1 WGTW-D1

27 48-2 WGTW-D2

27 48-3 WGTW-D3

27 48-4 WGTW-D4

27 48-5 WGTW-D5

29 65-1 WUVP-DT

29 65-2 WFPA-CA

31 61-1 WPPX-DT ION

31 61-2 WPPX-DT2 qubo

31 61-3 WPPX-DT3 IONLife

32 57-1 WPSG-DT

34 10-1 WCAU-DT

34 10-2 WCAU-DT2

34 10-3 WCAU-DT3

35 35-1 Mind

35 35-2

35 35-3

35 35-4

39 39-1 WLVT

39 39-3 V-Me

39 39-4 Create

42 29-1 WTXF-DT (Fox)

43 52-1 WNJT-DT

43 52-3 WNJT-DT3

46 69-1 WFMZ-HD

46 69-2 WFMZ-DT2 (all weather)

46 69-3 WFMZ-DT3 MeTV

46 69-4 WFMZ-DT4 RTV


No issues with reception on any of these


The Philly stations all have antennas in the Roxborough "antenna farm" which is about 50 miles away from me.


I also get that channel 4 out of Atlantic City (I previously posted on that)


----------



## LenL

T-max,


Looks like an impressive list. I could not tell because of the info you provided but does this include NBC, CBS and WABC? Looks like you get Fox.


----------



## jpru34

A few days in a row now with steady and reliable reception of WWOR. I am assuming that whatever issues they had over the past month or so which caused me to lose reception or for it to fluctuate wildly have now been resolved.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22311831
> 
> 
> T-max,
> 
> Looks like an impressive list. I could not tell because of the info you provided but does this include NBC, CBS and WABC? Looks like you get Fox.



Len -


CBS is KYW ch 3

ABC is WPVI ch 6

NBC is WCAU ch 10


Their programming is essentially the same as NYC programming since they are network stations and thus carry the usual network programming. Football games are often somewhat different since they tend to cover Eagles and Steeler games. And the news is strictly Philly news, which tends to be very "hometown." New York news generally gives more of a "world view" of the news (and sports) but Philly tends to be less so in those regards, especially on sports. They basically don't care about any teams other than Philly teams (Phillies, Eagles, Flyers) and don't even report other scores, yada yada. It's really kind of annoying.


WHYY is PBS as is WLVT (Allentown). They tend to carry the same programming for the most part, at least as to big ticket programs like anything that's new. WHYY and ch 13 often have the same prime time programming. WHYY's subchannels are quite good and carry re-broadcasts of main channel programs at different times. 12-2 (Y-Arts) is Create at some times (as is WLVT 39-4 all of the time) but carrys other interesting stuff in the evening and also during the day at times. 12-3 (Y-Info) seems to carry re-broadcasts of main channel programs at different times for the most part.


You can get WHYY's schedule and see for yourself what they carry. They even have a schedule for the entire month which will give you a good idea of their programming.


Same for WLVT -- their schedule is available on their website.


ch 17 is MY17 so they carry the same kind of programming as MY9 but at different times. I believe their AntennaTv and ThisTv programming is exactly the same as ch 11's counterparts.


WNJS and WNJT you know about. All of the New Jersey network programming is the same.


Ch 48 (WGTW) is a religious channel. You can check Wikipedia for that one.


Ch 65 is / are Spanish channels (check Wikipedia on those as well)


Ch 61 (ION) you should know about.


ch 57 is a "CW" station, so its programming is similar to ch 11's but at different times. They carry 2 episodes of South Park at midnight (I think it is), so that's kind of fun for me (although my local library has all the episodes on DVD)


ch 35 is another PBS station but it's kind of oddball. Again, check Wikipedia if yer interested.


ch 69 WFMZ has MeTV and RTV as 2 of its subchannels. You should be familiar with those. The all weather subchannel may be the last of those that I have anymore although maybe ch 10 still has it some of the time. Not sure about that. BTW, I absolutely love WFMZ's radar map and use that exclusively for my weather, particularly as to summer T-storms coming at me. Go to the WFMZ website and choose "local radar" under the "weather" tab. Then you'll see the advise: "You'll find our other Accuweather radar map here." THAT'S the one you want, so click on it and check it out. If you like it, bookmark it and also remember how to get to it again like you did. I hope they never do away with it. It used to be the only one they had until they came up with this new one, which I don't like at all.


If it ain't broke, why "fix" it??


I think that's the complete poop on the Philly stations. As I say, I get everthing without any issues to speak of and thus that's what I watch, especially since I get essentially the same programming I'd get via NYC stations.


My reception of NYC stations is so poor, and the selection so limited, that I'm glad to have these Philly stations.


Mostly all I ever watch is PBS but for whatever sports I get (football, baseball). Unfortunately, PBS programming has gone downhill in recent times because of the funding cuts.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16100_100#post_22310697
> 
> 
> 22 23-1 WNJS-DT
> 
> 22 23-3 WNJS-DT3
> 
> 
> I also get that channel 4 out of Atlantic City (I previously posted on that)



That pretty much explains why you can't see WNYW.


- Trip


----------



## JoeWS

Your inability to get WNYW - Fox is due to RF 44 WMCN which in on the same frequency and broadcasting out of Waterford Twp, Camden County NJ. I used to live in N. Burlington County and got most NYC stations but never Fox 5 due to RF44 whiuch was closer to me.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22313881
> 
> 
> That pretty much explains why you can't see WNYW.
> 
> - Trip



Trip - I'm not really understanding why. Is it because RF 22 is one half RF 44? Also, am I correct to assume that if NJS is the problem, it doesn't matter that I'm pointed in the opposite direction when trying to get WNYW? In other words, NJS' signal would have the same negative effect on WNYW's signal regardless of how my antenna is pointed?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeWS*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22315054
> 
> 
> Your inability to get WNYW - Fox is due to RF 44 WMCN which in on the same frequency and broadcasting out of Waterford Twp, Camden County NJ. I used to live in N. Burlington County and got most NYC stations but never Fox 5 due to RF44 whiuch was closer to me.



Joe - I guess my question to you would be the same as my 2nd question to Trip; that is, the effect of WMCN would be the same regardless of how my antenna is pointed (I'm assuming that you're saying that WMCN's signal "drowns out" or "cancels" WNYW's signal? (or whatever the proper term would be)


----------



## SnellKrell

Channel 44 in New York, WNYW has to employ a directional pattern in transmitting its signal.


This directional pattern specifically transmits minimum power from the Empire State Building

to the southwest.


This is done to prevent interference with Channel 44 in Atlantic City.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16100_100#post_22316035
> 
> 
> Trip - I'm not really understanding why. Is it because RF 22 is one half RF 44?



No, but WMCN-44 comes off the same tower and is on the same channel as WNYW-44.


- Trip


----------



## JoeWS

T-Max - When 2 stations were broadcasting on the same channel in analog, you could rotate your antenna and get one or the other or perhaps a combination of the 2 simultaeously depending on signal strength. With digital signals, the weaker channel will usually be impossible to receive due to co-channel interference no matter how you orient your antenna. The real question is: why did they allow 2 stations on the same frequency in adjacent markets.


----------



## SnellKrell

"The real question is: why did they allow 2 stations on the same frequency in adjacent markets."


If you think that both NYC and Atlantic City using the same frequency is strange, what about NYC and Hartford, CT?


Channel 44 in Atlantic City runs informercials on its main channel.


While WFSB in Hartford, CT, a CBS affiliate, is on Channel 33, the very same frequency as the flagship station of the

CBS Television Network, WCBS in New York City!


Go figure - pure idiocy!!!!


----------



## retiredengineer

Co-channel interference is addressed in the ATSC specification A/74. It specifies that the receiver shall reject a co-channel interference signal that is 15.5 dB less than the desired channel. You can check your TvFool results at your location to see if the undesired signal is 15.5 dB down or more. If not, you would have to use a directional antenna pointed at the desired signal and away from the undesired signal to get additional attenuation.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22316449
> 
> 
> No, but WMCN-44 comes off the same tower and is on the same channel as WNYW-44.
> 
> - Trip



Okay, I think I see what you're saying now. You're saying that WMCN is broadcasting at RF 44 and therefore would interfere with my reception of WNYW which is also @ RF 44.


There were 2 things in your original post that were confusing me:


1) I wasn't picking up on the fact that "that channel 4 out of Atlantic City" (which is WMCN) was broadcasting @ RF 44, and


2) You selectivly quoted "22 23-1 WNJS-DT" from my list of stations.


I think you did that because what you were saying in your post #16152 above was: "No, but WMCN-44 comes off the same tower [as WNJS in Camden] and is on the same channel (that is, @ the same RF) as WNYW-44."


That makes sense to me since I do receive WNJS fairly strongly and pretty much always have, and I also now do receive WMCN rather strongly.


But I do note that I only picked up WMCN very recently. So it seems that something has change with them. They upped power or moved their antenna or whatever.


And I've been having trouble receiveing WNYW for a very long time -- certainly well prior to ever even sniffing WMCN. Based on that fact, it wouldn't seem that WMCN would have been having all that much of an effect on me in prior months and years.


But who knows? Whatever.


P.S.: My MY9 reception of the ballgame last night was quite good. No complaints there. But I still have to use my #2 location, presumably due to multipath from 1WTC.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16100_100#post_22318417
> 
> 
> Okay, I think I see what you're saying now. You're saying that WMCN is broadcasting at RF 44 and therefore would interfere with my reception of WNYW which is also @ RF 44.



Yes.


> Quote:
> There were 2 things in your original post that were confusing me:
> 
> 1) I wasn't picking up on the fact that "that channel 4 out of Atlantic City" (which is WMCN) was broadcasting @ RF 44, and
> 
> 2) You selectivly quoted "22 23-1 WNJS-DT" from my list of stations.



No, channel 4 is WACP, but is at the same tower site as WNJS-22 and WMCN-44. I quoted those stations because they come off that same tower site. http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=location&location=Waterford+Works+%28NJ%29 


(WWSI holds a permit, but does not transmit from there at this time.)


> Quote:
> But I do note that I only picked up WMCN very recently. So it seems that something has change with them. They upped power or moved their antenna or whatever.
> 
> And I've been having trouble receiveing WNYW for a very long time -- certainly well prior to ever even sniffing WMCN. Based on that fact, it wouldn't seem that WMCN would have been having all that much of an effect on me in prior months and years.
> 
> But who knows? Whatever.



Nothing has changed with regard to power or antenna at WMCN as far as the FCC is concerned. I suspect WMCN has been interfering with WNYW for a very long time.


- Trip


----------



## T-Max

Trip -


Well, not to belabor things, but now I think I see why your original post (#16148) confused me given what you quoted from my prior post together with your comment in that post.


You made no reference to WMCN in your post and just simply said "That pretty much explains why you can't see WNYW." I assumed that by "That" you meant what you had quoted from my prior post, which had only to do with WNJS and "that channel 4 out of Atlantic City."


Which channel is, as you now point out, WACP.


If I understand you correctly now, WACP has nothing whatsoever to do with my WNYW reception problems. It is @ RF 4 and is on the same tower as WNJS. The fact that it's on the same tower as WNJS explains why I'm receiving it (since I get WNJS well enough) although it doesn't explain why I never got it until recently unless something rather dramatic changed with it (like it only recently located on that tower? Or it increased power?)


In any event, your comment ("That pretty much explains why you can't see WNYW") apparently pertained to WMCN, which was not referenced at all in either your post or in my prior post which you partially quoted.


Thus the confusion.


Although I think I understand now why you didn't specifically reference WMCN. It seems you were thinking that my reference to an Atlantic City station was to WMCN, which is indeed licensed out of AC.


But I think I was clear in my post that I was talking about WACP when I said "that channel 4 out of Atlantic City" even tho' I wasn't even remembering or citing the call letters.


So it looks like maybe there was some confusion all around.


BTW, I do not get WMCN at all, and never have. So although its signal may be impacting my reception of WNYW, it's certainly not a strong enough signal for me to actually receive it, or even just lock it in.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22318619
> 
> 
> ... It is @ RF 4 and is on the same tower as WNJS. The fact that it's on the same tower as WNJS explains why I'm receiving it (since I get WNJS well enough) although it doesn't explain why I never got it until recently unless something rather dramatic changed with it (like it only recently located on that tower? Or it increased power?)...



I should have bothered to read the opening blurb on Wikipedia -

_WACP channel 4 VHF-low is a new, as of first week in June 2012, independent full-power digital terrestrial television station..._


----------



## Trip in VA

Yeah, my apologies, I didn't actually mention WMCN in my initial message. My fault. That is what happens when I try to post too quickly!


- Trip


----------



## T-Max

Trip -


No need to apologize. I'm guessing that you may have mis-read "that channel 4 out of Atlantic City" as "that channel 44 out of Atlantic City."


An easy enough mistake to make. And I could have properly identified it as WACP, which would have been better.


Anyway, it seems that we have it all figured out now.


----------



## mikepier

Got to see the Met game on PIX tonight thanks to my antenna. I have Cablevision, and they are not carrying PIX anymore due to what else, money.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22318681
> 
> 
> Yeah, my apologies, I didn't actually mention WMCN in my initial message. My fault. That is what happens when I try to post too quickly!
> 
> - Trip



Or maybe that HUGE antenna of yours cast a really dark shadow on your keyboard and screen and you could not see what you were typing lol


----------



## LenL

CBS 2.1 is giving my Channel Master 4228 antenna with the CM7777 preamp issues. No signal.


I suspect it may be the preamp is overloading the signal? Or I am no longer in a good location for 2.1. Anyone know what the symptoms are if the preamp is doing too much?


----------



## DTVintermods

If the power sum of your signal (desired)+echoes (undesired) is strong and the preamp is not highly linear, your SNR will go DOWN because more noise than desired signal is generated. So you may kill your reception of 2.1 when the SNR reaches threshold. You may need a highly linear preamp, meaning Third Order Intercept point of 32 or higher.


----------



## LenL

That's what I was afraid of and I can't possibly go up on the roof and hang over the chimney and pull the preamp to test it....I'm chicken. Maybe I can find somone else to do it....


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16110#post_22301043
> 
> 
> Kind of a poll here. For everyone to answer.
> 
> If the TV fairy's granted you one Channel wish.
> *
> What TV channel would you like to see go OTA?*


I have never had paid TV -cable or dish,nor shall I ever put myself to that prison. last FullScan gave me 72 OTA ch.,trying to keep it under 50ch.


----------



## T-Max

My MY9 (WWOR) reception last night was really excellent. This is from 8 pm to at least 10:45 pm. The signal appeared to be a pretty solid 84 - 85% when I first first checked it @ 8 pm. That would normally translate to pretty good reception but with some occasional issues. Yet I watched the entire ballgame and I can't recall ever seeing a single glitch the whole time. It would thus appear that reception must have either been a rock solid 84% (never dropping below that) or a rock solid 84-85%.


A solid 85% gives me reception with no issues. It looks like reception has to drop down to 83% (or below) for me to have issues.


This is all @ my 2nd reception location, which was necessitated (apparently) by multipath created by 1WTC. Interestingly, I have virtually no reception of ch 11 or ch 13 at that location. I have reasonable reception of ch 4 and ch 7 there, but not as good as @ my primary antenna location.


At my primary location I get 4,7,11 & 13 but no MY9. Reception of 11 & 13 can be a bit iffy at times, but it's much better than at the 2nd (MY9) location.


So that's what I saw here from MY9 last night.


----------



## T-Max

Updating my last post as to NYC stations I get @ my primary antenna position, and their strength, I just did a scan and these are the results:


RF channel strength


7 7-1 WABC-HD 90

8 58-1 WNJB-DT 96

11 11-1 WPIX-DT 84/85

13 13-1 NET-DT 86

18 63-1 wmbc-D1 89

28 4-1 WNBC 89

30 68-1 WFUT-DT 81/83

33 2-1 WCBS-HD 90

38 9-1 WWOR-DT 83/84


I'm a bit surprised at the MY9 (WWOR) result. I tried watching it and it was certainly unwatchable but there was reception. It was just so interrupted and spotty that you'd never actually try to watch a program. If the result had been 84/85, then it would have been watchable. The signal seemed pretty solid from what I saw -- it just was a bit too weak for viewing.


Earlier this year I was getting essentially nothing for MY9 at this antenna location, which is why I moved it to my 2nd position. I find it interesting that it now seems to be "back" (at least somewhat). Of course, this is just one night -- it could be a temporary condition.


I note that if I wanted to watch a Mets game on WPIX, I'd probably tweak the position a bit to see if I could improve it. It's been my experience that I probably could (improve it).


----------



## LenL

Thanks for the update! I forgot. Do you use a rotor? If so which one?


----------



## DTVintermods

1WTC Update:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/realestate/commercial/the-30-minute-interview-gary-m-rosenberg.html?_r=1&sq=Gary%20M.%20Rosenberg&st=Search&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1345811149-59FJq5oeHJJI9dqFMf01Gw 

Basically, Port Authority via Durst are about to begin negotiations.


----------



## T-Max

_Everybody who’s blasting digital._


I take that to mean everybody that's broadcasting digital TV OTA?


That certainly sounds hopeful for me here in NJ. It would give me a much better signal and eliminate the multipath that 1WTC is apparently now hurting me.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22334341
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update! I forgot. Do you use a rotor? If so which one?



Len -


No rotor. I do it all by hand either from the inside or going onto the roof. I obviously have to go onto the roof to actually move the antenna from my primary position to the 2nd "MY9"position" (which I will have to do later today because there's a MY9 Yankee game tonight).


BTW, I still have my antenna pointed toward NYC @ my primary position and the MY9 reception is back to where it was last May; that is, it's virtually nil. I get mostly "0" with occasional jumps up to 81 - 83, but just for a few seconds and then back to zero. So the better reception I saw as per my last post was indeed just temporary.


----------



## SnellKrell

I don't know how "hopeful" anyone should be.


All this article says is that the Port Authority and Durst want to rent out facilities.


Who's to say that anyone will buy what they are selling?


With the economy being so bad and so few viewers relying on OTA, a move

to 1WTC may not make sense.


I really believe that M/H transmission is the only hope for OTA broadcasting

and for any move to 1WTC.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22336925
> 
> 
> Len -
> 
> No rotor. I do it all by hand either from the inside or going onto the roof. I obviously have to go onto the roof to actually move the antenna from my primary position to the 2nd "MY9"position" (which I will have to do later today because there's a MY9 Yankee game tonight).
> 
> BTW, I still have my antenna pointed toward NYC @ my primary position and the MY9 reception is back to where it was last May; that is, it's virtually nil. I get mostly "0" with occasional jumps up to 81 - 83, but just for a few seconds and then back to zero. So the better reception I saw as per my last post was indeed just temporary.



Wow you climb on the roof every time a Yankees game is on MY9. What do your neighbours think seeing you always on the roof? To each his own I guess.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22337078
> 
> 
> Wow you climb on the roof every time a Yankees game is on MY9. What do your neighbours think seeing you always on the roof? To each his own I guess.



no kidding. just get a mlb.tv subscription, and apple tv and one of the many methods to bypass local blockouts.


----------



## DTVintermods

Agreed. But to get reliable reception on hand-held and mobile devices, a new digital TV standard, not designed for rooftop antennas, is mandatory


----------



## KEVINL71




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16140#post_22316738
> 
> 
> "The real question is: why did they allow 2 stations on the same frequency in adjacent markets."
> 
> If you think that both NYC and Atlantic City using the same frequency is strange, what about NYC and Hartford, CT?
> 
> 
> While WFSB in Hartford, CT, a CBS affiliate, is on Channel 33, the very same frequency as the flagship station of the
> 
> CBS Television Network, WCBS in New York City!
> 
> Go figure - pure idiocy!!!!



The straight line distance from Avon, CT and New York City comes up as only 98 miles. That's with a distance calculator feature at indo.com. Of course, without exact coordinates, those are the only two places I could enter. As for Avon Mountain, most of it is on the east side of Avon, but part of it is at the western side of West Hartford, CT. Maybe if we went from Deercliff Road in Avon to 5th Avenue, it might come out a bit different?


Hartford/New Haven also causes issues for those in western areas of the Boston/Worcester market. I know WCVB-TV (ABC) channel 5 of Boston and WCCT-TV (CW) channel 20 of Waterbury, CT both use channel 20 for their digital. That same site puts Needham, MA (WCVB site) and Farmington, CT (WCCT site) as _91 miles_ apart.


----------



## vis0

Same questions as to HOTtv (42.3) specially the not synced audio or 42.1's audio came through all other 42.#,. 42.3 HOTtv went off/colourbars around July 2012. Went off earlier in the year for a couple of weeks. Since its RF0002 maybe ABC-nyc RF0007 in adjusting there output is causing HOTtv to have output troubles and thus closing it for adjustments. i remember moving my feet , body position to get UHF as a kid (1960s/70s) even once bettered reception cutting my father's finger nails as he had his feet on the old B&W watching TELEMUNDO...okay so it might have been the metal nail cutter but the "nails" version is more fun to tell. HEY MAYBE the guys/gals at 42.# "left there feet up"







thus WE CANT get it.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22336925
> 
> 
> Len -
> 
> No rotor. I do it all by hand either from the inside or going onto the roof. I obviously have to go onto the roof to actually move the antenna from my primary position to the 2nd "MY9"position" (which I will have to do later today because there's a MY9 Yankee game tonight).
> 
> BTW, I still have my antenna pointed toward NYC @ my primary position and the MY9 reception is back to where it was last May; that is, it's virtually nil. I get mostly "0" with occasional jumps up to 81 - 83, but just for a few seconds and then back to zero. So the better reception I saw as per my last post was indeed just temporary.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22337112
> 
> 
> no kidding. just get a mlb.tv subscription, and apple tv and one of the many methods to bypass local blockouts.



Just an FYI if your at all interested, but MLB.TV is offering a special celebrating their 10th year of streaming, till midnight tonight get the rest of the year for only $10.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/subscriptions/index.jsp?&c_id=mlb&affiliateId=roku


----------



## AloEuro

wPIX ch.11-1,2,3, lately shows weak signal, lots of pixelation


----------



## keyboard21

Nice to see that the networks are using sub-channels and extra channels for the correct reasons


This week both CBS and NBC were showing different shows rather then schedule programing. So they threw schedule programing on the extra channels. This is what they should be doing from the beginning of sub-channels. They should be overflow.


For example


CBS (2.1) Did not show BIG BROTHER. It was showing convention. So they put BIG BROTHER on Channel 55 WLNY. They posted this on 2.1 and told us.


NBC (4.1) Did not show America's Got Talent. It was showing football. So they moved AGT to 4.2


Nice use of subs.


Now CBS needs to put WLNY in NYC


----------



## SnellKrell

"...Channel 45 WLNY."


WLNY hasn't been on 45 for a long, long time.


Think you mean channel 55.


I sometimes pick up 55 but it'sa rarity, I use an indoor antenna.


The station is putting out a million watts from Middle Island, L.I.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22357617
> 
> 
> "...Channel 45 WLNY."
> 
> WLNY hasn't been on 45 for a long, long time.
> 
> Think you mean channel 55.
> 
> I sometimes pick up 55 but it'sa rarity, I use an indoor antenna.
> 
> The station is putting out a million watts from Middle Island, L.I.



Yes I meant 55. As you know I have cable and saw this maneuver last night. It is happening again tonight. My Aunt has the antenna.


I still say CBS made a huge mistake not putting WLNY on a sub.


Anyway the use of sub and sister channels are a good use for overflow


----------



## if200

Hi. I live in Queens and am using a winegard non amplified antenna. I receive CBS, NBC, WOR and Ion and various spanish language stations.The quality is great but I can't seem to get ABC, PIX and PBS. Is there anything I should try?


Thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

The stations that you're not receiving are all on the VHFband.


It's possible that your current antenna is just designed for UHF.


You can either replace it with a High VHF/UHF antenna or

add a VHF antenna to your current one using a combiner.


If your current antenna is indoors, you could just add plain old

VHF rabbit ears.


Hope this helps!


----------



## if200

Thanks for the quick reply. That makes sense. The antenna is the winegard flatwave and it says it is a High UHF/VHF antenna so I thought it would work. Could it have something to do with the automatic channel scan?


Do I need to program it to look for VHF channels?


----------



## SnellKrell

If your TV has a signal meter built into the set, use it.


Your trying to receive channels 7, 11 and 13.


Try changing the position of the antenna.


Usually, the higher the better.


These 3 stations all transmit from the Empire State Building.


If you have a west facing window (toward Manhattan and the Empire State)

try moving your antenna toward that window.


Try scanning again and again.


Can you manually enter the missing channels on your TV?


If so, do that.


----------



## if200

Ok. I will try. Aren't I looking for 7-1, 11-1, and 13-1 for the HDTV channels


----------



## SnellKrell

Those are the main channels for each of the stations you mentioned.


Don't know how your set performs its scanning program.


You should be receiving:


7.1,7.2, 7.3


11.1, 11.2, 11.3


13.1, 13.2, 13.3


----------



## northshoreli

WCBS HD 2 has RF 22 LD Low-Power Digital TV Station

ON the Air as of Aug 30, 2012

Licensee (Owner): CBS BROADCASTING INC. (CBS Corporation)

Service Designation: LD Low-Power Digital TV Station

Channel: 22 518 - 524 MHz Modification of Construction Permit (Expires 09/15/2012)

File Number: BMPCDT-20120305ABN Facility ID Number: 9610

Application ID Number: 1490007

The proposed transmitter site is now in operation copy and paste the link below.
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101490007&qnum=5120&copynum=1&exhcnum=1


----------



## ahorowytz

Maybe some one could help i live in Englewood Nj , i recently got rid of TWC and i went to antenna but i can not get the basic channels 2-13 or there sub channels i do how ever get channel 50.1 NJTVhd in perfect clear hd and a bunch of higher channels i have an indoor antenna i live in a condo so i cannot put an outside antenna my windows face west unfortunately. is this the reason? i can live without tv except on sundays ! any info help would be great i have an antennacraft omnidirection antenna.

Thanks in advance


----------



## SnellKrell

First, did you program your television set to receive "Antenna" vs. "Cable"?


Also, you mention that you can't receive channels 2-13.


Only channels 7, 11 and 13 use those exact channel numbers for reception.


The other "basic" channels use different frequenies:


Channel 2 broadcasts on Channel 33


4 is on 28


5 is on 44


9 is on 38


These stations all transmit from the Empire State Building in Manhattan which

is southeast of where you live. Your window facing west is not helping your

situation.


Walk your antenna around your room trying to find the best location for reception.


Hope this helps.


----------



## ahorowytz

thank you for the quick reply.

yes i have it set to air. If it matters i have a samsung hl61a750 ,

, i know that the channels are slightly different now. i was using it as an example of say nbc, fox o ... i have tried walking the antenna around it seams the only channles i can get is when i auto program. but it seams the only thing i can get is pbs which is 13 miles away west of me . i have checked antennaweb etc and it said i should be fine this is very frustrating i was thinking old school rabbit ears were easier then this. even with the empire state bulding being south east of me should i get something ??? all i get is snow no signal on the major channels


----------



## keyboard21

A few things


1) Please post a link of your antenna. You say it is indoors, yet google shows many outdoor antennas called antennacraft omnidirectional antenna


2) Go to tvfool.com Put in your address and let us know how far the main channels in ESB are. Ex: Cbs, nbc ect


3) Are you using RG6 Coax cable? Is it more then 25 feet? IF so then are you using a preamp?


4) What direction is ESB from the room you are in? Is the outer wall where antenna is, facing ESB or does signal have to travel through house or apt.


----------



## ahorowytz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22363841
> 
> 
> A few things
> 
> 1) Please post a link of your antenna. You say it is indoors, yet google shows many outdoor antennas called antennacraft omnidirectional antenna
> 
> 2) Go to tvfool.com Put in your address and let us know how far the main channels in ESB are. Ex: Cbs, nbc ect
> 
> 3) Are you using RG6 Coax cable? Is it more then 25 feet? IF so then are you using a preamp?
> 
> 4) What direction is ESB from the room you are in? Is the outer wall where antenna is, facing ESB or does signal have to travel through house or apt.





i didnt see a link on antennacrafts site but here it is at radioshack ... http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11694069&filterName=Type&filterValue=HDTV# 


this is from tvfool... http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de7796742a53d62 


the cable i am using is about 10 ft no preamp but does have a power injector that came with the antenna that could be a preamp but not sure i have left over cable from the cable company that is longer it is rg6


ESB is about 8-9 miles away SE of me my apt is facing north west one window on northside most on west antenna is omnidirectional mostly facing west but have been moving it around, to face SE the signal would have to travel through 5 other APTs.


thanks again hope this is useful in figuring this out


----------



## keyboard21

Ok so the WALL that your antenna is on. Is west and ESB is Sout/east.. The signal needs to travel through 5 apts to reach you?


Yet ESB is only 8 to 9 miles away. BUT your antenna is not that powerful. It is only good for 20 miles away and since you are indoors you need to cut that distance by 2/3. There are better people then me ,but I do have with experience with about 10 antennas. Most Radio shack cheapo antennas


My suggestion you need an antenna rated 40 miles plus. To compensate for the indoor effect and the facing wrong way effect. You need to be open in trying other antennas and returning the ones that do not work.


I use a terk-50/ 55. Most people say it is a joke. I love it for my aunt. But we are 7 miles and facing ESB with outer wall. It would not work at all for you imo


So I suggest the following go to the AVS forum comparison

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1037779/evs-recommended-top-rated-dtv-indoor-uhf-vhf-set-top-antenna-review-round-up-guide 


There is a Excel chart 1/3 down.


You will see this person got great results with db2 and Clearstream c2. I tried the C2 and got the same results as terk50 so I returned it. Both these antennas come larger. The DB4 and Clearstream C4. If you can hid the antenna or put it under bed, Then these would be the best to try. Both the C2 and Db2 are rated for outdoors, but are small enough for indoors.


DB2 up to 30 miles
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Antennas+Direct+DB2 


DB4 a range of about 55 miles
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-DB4-Multi-Directional-Antenna/dp/B000EHYG9K 


C2 *Range up to 50 Miles*
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-C2-ClearStream-Outdoor/dp/B0017O3UHI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1346551382&sr=8-4&keywords=Antennas+Direct+DB2 


C4 *Up to 65 Miles of Range*
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-ClearStream4-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B001BRXW74/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1346551487&sr=1-1&keywords=ClearStream++c4 


What I did with the C2 was I went to home depot and found a 8 foot tall think piece of stick wood. Used for closets, I had the Home Depot guy cut it down to 5 foot for me. I mounted the antenna on the stick and put it behind a dresser, I still have the stick lol If you weren't 2 hours away . I would say come and get it lol Cost about $10 or so, I forget.


Now I switched to Terk HD Rg6 coax and found a 5 signal boost. I recommend to make sure your RG6 is HD rated, I found it made a difference. Terk at best buy was the cheapest.


This is what it looks like. It comes in smaller/cheaper sizes. I got the 6 foot I think
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Terk---25%27-RG6-Indoor/Outdoor-Coaxial-Cable/6329181.p?id=1077627381398&skuId=6329181 



You are going to need to experiment with a couple more antennas. These guys here can help you with a preamp in necessary.



Keep in mind the DB 2 and DB4 say only for UHF only, but I knew someone from the board who used out outside and he was 30 miles away from ESB and got all the VHS.


This is why I tried the C2 that is for uhf/vhf. I wished I could of tried the C4


Hope this helps. Read that Avs antenna link.


I wonder if there is a new antenna discussion out there that compares antennas?


----------



## ahorowytz

Thank you for the info, i am open to using other antennas , i forgot that being on the opposite side of esb and having to go through the building i would need a longer range antenna it has been so long since i needed one. lol

getting ota is not an easy thing anymore..


i was looking at the clearstream4 online but didnt think something like that was necessary i had figured i would have gotten something even a blip with the other one i already ordered the clearstream and will keep checking in

Thank you again for all the info and help


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahorowytz*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22364004
> 
> 
> Thank you for the info, i am open to using other antennas , i forgot that being on the opposite side of esb and having to go through the building i would need a longer range antenna it has been so long since i needed one. lol
> 
> getting ota is not an easy thing anymore..
> 
> i was looking at the clearstream4 online but didnt think something like that was necessary i had figured i would have gotten something even a blip with the other one i already ordered the clearstream and will keep checking in
> 
> Thank you again for all the info and help



If I was you. I would try the C2 and C4 and see which one is best signal and which is best in physical size. IF the C4 is too big. Then you might have to compromise.


Do not for get HD Rg6 cable. Compared to cable company coax. I got 5 points signal higher


With your issues. I think bigger is better


Your welcome.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Both the C2 and C4 is stock form are UHF antennas. AD has a C2 VHF reflector that fits either antenna and works pretty well.


----------



## ahorowytz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22364012
> 
> 
> If I was you. I would try the C2 and C4 and see which one is best signal and which is best in physical size. IF the C4 is too big. Then you might have to compromise.
> 
> Do not for get HD Rg6 cable. Compared to cable company coax. I got 5 points signal higher
> 
> With your issues. I think bigger is better
> 
> Your welcome.



I wont forget the cable ordered it too . i think the c4 will fit fine i dont care if it looks bad i just want my football and postseason bbl. plus if an antenna with 60mile range cant help me then it wont matter and im screwed . and would have to start in with the board about installing an outdoor antenna at that point and cost ill just find the games online and hook my CPu to my TV


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22364020
> 
> 
> Both the C2 and C4 is stock form are UHF antennas. AD has a C2 VHF reflector that fits either antenna and works pretty well.



Remember looking into it and the clearstreams are VHF and uhf. I guess he can call them and verify


----------



## SnellKrell

I tried the C2 and had no luck with it. I think you will find with the C2 and others in the series,

they are really UHF antennas adapted to receive VHF.


Whichever antenna you buy, make sure it can be returned and/or exchanged.


One person's success with an antenna will not necessarily mean that it will work for you -

there are just too many variables.


That being said, I like two Terk antennas:


HDTVi - Unamplified


HDTVa - Amplified


They are the same antenna - one amplified, the other not.


Both have UHF and a VHF elements.


In fact, the VHF element are rabbit ears - gives you great flexibility in adjusting.


Good luck!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahorowytz*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22363676
> 
> 
> Maybe some one could help i live in Englewood Nj , i recently got rid of TWC and i went to antenna but i can not get the basic channels 2-13 or there sub channels i do how ever get channel 50.1 NJTVhd in perfect clear hd and a bunch of higher channels i have an indoor antenna i live in a condo so i cannot put an outside antenna my windows face west unfortunately. is this the reason? i can live without tv except on sundays ! any info help would be great i have an antennacraft omnidirection antenna.
> 
> Thanks in advance



In addition to facing west, away from the transmitters, what floor are you on and how many floors are in your building? Also if you were on the same floor but on the side of the building facing the ESB (transmitters) is there a clear line of sight to the ESB or are there buildings, terrain or other obstacles?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22364534
> 
> 
> I tried the C2 and had no luck with it. I think you will find with the C2 and others in the series,
> 
> they are really UHF antennas adapted to receive VHF.
> 
> Whichever antenna you buy, make sure it can be returned and/or exchanged.
> 
> One person's success with an antenna will not necessarily mean that it will work for you -
> 
> there are just too many variables.
> 
> That being said, I like two Terk antennas:
> 
> HDTVi - Amplified
> 
> HDTVa - Unamplified
> 
> They are the same antenna - one amplified, the other not.
> 
> Both have UHF and a VHF elements.
> 
> In fact, the VHF element are rabbit ears - gives you great flexibility in adjusting.
> 
> Good luck!



I thought those antenna are for inside NYC since they are very directional.


----------



## SnellKrell

They're not for just inside NYC.


Yes, the UHF element is very directional.


Therefore, good for dealing with multipath.


Even if there are no multipath problems with a lot of bounce signals,

it could be fine just aiming one of the Terks toward the ESB.


----------



## tylerSC

The HDTVa is the amplified version.


----------



## SnellKrell

Sorry I mixed up the two Terk indoor antennas.


HDTVa - Amplified


HDTVi - Unamplifed


Thanks for catching the error.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22365460
> 
> 
> They're not for just inside NYC.
> 
> Yes, the UHF element is very directional.
> 
> Therefore, good for dealing with multipath.
> 
> Even if there are no multipath problems with a lot of bounce signals,
> 
> it could be fine just aiming one of the Terks toward the ESB.



I am surprised it says *45 miles from broadcast station with no obstructions*


As I always said, This is more of an art form then science. He needs to try 5 antennas and pick the best and return the rest


----------



## tylerSC

Those Terks have a very well designed UHF element. I have an HDTVa that receives UHF stations from 75 miles. But of course that depends upon location and lack of obstructions. Not sure how well it would work in NYC with all of the tall buildings around. Perhaps you could also give the Mohu Leaf a try, as it has gotten good reviews. But it is optimized for UHF, although it does work well for VHF in some areas.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tylerSC*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22365603
> 
> 
> Those Terks have a very well designed UHF element. I have an HDTVa that receives UHF stations from 75 miles. But of course that depends upon location and lack of obstructions. Not sure how well it would work in NYC with all of the tall buildings around. Perhaps you could also give the Mohu Leaf a try, as it has gotten good reviews. But it is optimized for UHF, although it does work well for VHF in some areas.



Honestly it looks like a toy. Yet I seen stranger things. When I was looking for my Aunt the Terk 50 was the state of the art. I tried it not knowing it would work. Can you imagine when I walked in with a 5 foot stick antenna? She was not pleased. When it worked she got happy real fast. Even in analog it got 16 channels. Of course 2 to 5 got variants of snow From 7 to above it was perfect. Now with digital she gets 55 channels with subs. Yet I know someone who tried the terk 50 and got little to nothing. It all depends on where you live.


Trying any suggestion is the way to go. It either works or it does not.


----------



## AloEuro

wPIX ch.11- 1,2,3 give rather low signal output, lot of pixelation, Antenna adjustments may improve reception, but then may loose some of the 72ch.


----------



## T-Max

I am getting ready to try to record something on ch 7 overnight and am seeing some very weird reception issues with it. Basically, it wasn't there at all (or at extremely low levels). I even moved my antenna to my 2nd location (that I use for MY9) and same thing.


Although I still have it there now (12:07 AM) and seem to be getting solid reception now.


Ch 7 is normally my strongest NYC channel at my primary antenna location. But I had zilch there just a bit ago.


???????????


I'll set things up to record from 3:30 AM to 4:30 AM and see what I get. There's nothing else I can do.


But I've had pretty solid Jimmy Kimmel for about 5 minutes now, so I'm hopeful.


Oops -- just lost reception (@ 12:09)


It's gotta be either an atmosphere thing or they are having probems at ABC (or @ the ESB)


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22382858
> 
> 
> It's gotta be either an atmosphere thing or they are having probems at ABC (or @ the ESB)



I have now watched what I recorded from 3:27 AM to 4:33 AM Saturday and there was nary a glitch. So reception at that time was solid. It was also solid later yesterday morning @ 90-91% for ch. 7. And also very good for all NYC channels.


That was all at my #2 (MY9) antenna location.


Then I moved the antenna to my primary location, pointed to NYC, and even better ch 7 reception there (as per usual).


So the problems I saw Friday night were apparently temporary. What those problems were due to, I dunno.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22386344
> 
> 
> I have now watched what I recorded from 3:27 AM to 4:33 AM Saturday and there was nary a glitch. So reception at that time was solid. It was also solid later yesterday morning @ 90-91% for ch. 7. And also very good for all NYC channels.
> 
> That was all at my #2 (MY9) antenna location.
> 
> Then I moved the antenna to my primary location, pointed to NYC, and even better ch 7 reception there (as per usual).
> 
> So the problems I saw Friday night were apparently temporary. What those problems were due to, I dunno.



Wow you are quite the OTA trooper. You were up on your roof yesterday morning moving your antenna around? Wasn't it rainy yesterday morning?


----------



## NYC10033

Hi. It's 9/11/12 and at 9AM I noticed that channel 2 had no signal.


I finally found a number for CBS in NYC, 212-975-4321 and spoke with someone who acknowledged that there was a problem. He said they lost power.


I also noticed that channel 5 is off the air after 12:30AM some nights.


There is no mention of a problem on the CBS website.


OTA is not being treated seriously. That's a bad sign.


----------



## fiddlerontheroof

enter 33 on your remote which is its RF# and you should get CBS


----------



## LenL

At 12 noon I turned on my TV and found no channel 2.1 and 2.1 but it was there as 33.1 and 33.2. So something must have happened and they never told anyone. Funny it happened on the anniversary of 9/11.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22392746
> 
> 
> OTA is not being treated seriously. That's a bad sign.



As the cost of programming increases, so must revenue streams for broadcasters, as they will need to compete with other streams of programming (payTV, Hulu, etc.). OTA programming was paid for primarily by advertising back in the day. Now, a greater portion needs be made up by re-transmission fees. It explains why CV has dumped CW11 from the lineup. I have read that Tribune wants 30 cents per month per subscriber for CW11.. a channel that you theoretically can get free with an antenna.


You will see broadcasters worry more about their sat or microwave linkups to cable / sat head ends than their primary broadcast facility.... The money is in the re-transmission fees...


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22393323
> 
> 
> At 12 noon I turned on my TV and found no channel 2.1 and 2.1 but it was there as 33.1 and 33.2. So something must have happened and they never told anyone. Funny it happened on the anniversary of 9/11.



I thought CBS broke the cluster of 3BuenaVista 4WNBC 5Fox 7WABC 9WOR 11WPIX 13WNET going to 33 and at night going back to 2


----------



## keyboard21

Is channel 2 cbs now broadcasting in postage stamp?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22397255
> 
> 
> Is channel 2 cbs now broadcasting in postage stamp?



I been told that CBS changed formats. Is no one else getting postage stamp or elongated picture?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22399998
> 
> 
> I been told that CBS changed formats. Is no one else getting postage stamp or elongated picture?



The main channel has always been right.


It's the sub-channel that's all mucked up...


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22400012
> 
> 
> The main channel has always been right.
> 
> It's the sub-channel that's all mucked up...


Not on FIOS. CBS 2.1 is no all messed up and they are blaming CBS signal. So since Fios gets the signal from CBS. I thought it would of shown on CBS antenna.


----------



## LenL

No issues here with CBS.


----------



## AloEuro

On the cable front my understanding is that CNN was dominant news channel, on OTA front it seems that the Chinese News are serious competitors of OTA major worldwide news,

the 32 -1 CCTV shows African news in English, 32-2 CCTV4 Asian in English, 32-3 Chinese programs with Spanish subtitles, then there are 24-2 ICN and 24-3 and in the 63 few other Asia ch.


----------



## LenL

We live in a country with a very diverse population and the programming reflects who we are.... especially in the NY/NJ metro area.

I would like to see the programming that is in other languages give English speakers an option to view what is going on in English. Whether by captions or other means. They definitely show more and better movies ...that I try to watch but my Spanish is not very good.


----------



## NYC10033

Speaking of Spanish language TV stations...


When a Spanish language TV station shows an American movie, the audio is the Spanish dub of the movie.


Why aren't they also broadcasting the English audio of the American movie as an alternate SAP???


I emailed one station asking this, but I never got an answer.


I know FOX broadcasts the Simpsons in English and Spanish. Why not channel 68 or whatever???


----------



## LenL

It makes so much sense to do this that you would have to be stupid not to do it and get more viewers!


----------



## dvdchance

Just a thought here, but perhaps they only get a licence to broadcast the movies with Spanish audio. Might be cheaper for them to acquire that way.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200_100#post_22401987
> 
> 
> On the cable front my understanding is that CNN was dominant news channel



Fox News and MSNBC have both outrated CNN for a very long time.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200_100#post_22402586
> 
> 
> Just a thought here, but perhaps they only get a licence to broadcast the movies with Spanish audio. Might be cheaper for them to acquire that way.



From what I have heard, you are correct.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200#post_22401957
> 
> 
> No issues here with CBS.



Seems fios and CBS fixed the issue.


----------



## AloEuro

Buena Vista 3-1,2,4 only Spanish were showing the picture from the French/Italian publications of wife of the prince, nice front line


----------



## Michael Bazikos

Today I called WACP 4 and asked them when they will be put on Verizon Fios. I am waiting for an answer. Its not really news, but I asked if they were seeking a network affiliation, and they are. With every station in Philly (and NYC) a network O&O, and a second NBC affiliate, WMGM, NBC 40, nearby, I don't think it will be one of the big 4. I wish Fox would give them an affiliation, and make them a sister station to powerhouse fox 29 and fox 5. Fox 29 WTXF has excellent news coverage which Southern New Jersey desperately needs.


----------



## Michael Bazikos

Too late for this one, but when the FCC mandated the switch from analog to digital, they should have included channel 1 on the dial. It would have been a big hit, to be 'no. 1' on the dial, and useful in many areas where years ago the big cities got most of the VHF stations leaving some areas with very little or no local presence on the airwaves.


----------



## kickass69




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael Bazikos*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16200_50#post_22413574
> 
> 
> Too late for this one, but when the FCC mandated the switch from analog to digital, they should have included channel 1 on the dial. It would have been a big hit, to be 'no. 1' on the dial, and useful in many areas where years ago the big cities got most of the VHF stations leaving some areas with very little or no local presence on the airwaves.



Not possible either way given in 1948 the FCC reallocated Channel 1's frequency range for public safety and land mobile use.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22413823
> 
> 
> Not possible either way given in 1948 the FCC reallocated Channel 1's frequency range for public safety and land mobile use.


Well, you could say it is possible if the FCC allowed using PSIP to call yourself channel 1 even if you were using spectrum elsewhere, like most stations are using PSIP to retain their lifelong channel branding as opposed to adopting the channel number of their digital spectrum, if now different than their former analog channel. (This response is not intended to restart those discussions whether or not the use of PSIP to disguise the actual frequencies was a good idea.)


----------



## Mr.H

The ATSC standard allows for virtual channel numbers from 1 to 99. I've not been able to verify this, but according to Wikipedia WNYZ-LP uses virtual channel number 1.1.


Long live Channel 1


----------



## Trip in VA

The only station legally allowed to use the channel 1 mapping in the United States is KAXT-CD in San Francisco.


- Trip


----------



## Beanturd

Hello,


I live in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn in a second floor apartment. My windows face south (towers are north)


I am trying to simply get reception for regular OTA HD channels but I cannot consistently get reception. Channel 2 (CBS) and 9 (WWOR/UPN) are always solid. The others, not so much, unless I fiddle with the antenna position. I do NOT get Channel 11 (WPIX/CW) at all.


Right now I am using the AntennaCraft Omnidirectional flat antenna that I bought at RadioShack

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11694069&utm_term=antennacraft&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_content=Exact 


I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to get better receptionW. Will the Mohu Leaf be better for me?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Beanturd*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22420429
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I live in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn in a second floor apartment. My windows face south (towers are north)



What type of building? Do you have access to the roof? Do you rent or buy? Do you know your landlord?


When I had my apartment in the East village, TWC was able to drop a line from the roof down the building to my window near the TV. Maybe your building has a master antenna? Or you can do something similar to what TWC with me (antenna on roof with a drop to a windows).


There are lots of things that will futz up your reception, like aluminum siding, plaster walls on expanded metal... the list goes on. A clear line of sight is always a plus....



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Beanturd




----------



## Beanturd

Hi Doug,


thanks for your reply


I live in a newly built condo (2007). It's 6 stories tall and I'm on the second floor. There are a bunch of apartment buildings around me but they are all five or six stories tall. I own and I do have acces to the roof. I notice several apartments above me that use Dish/Direct TV and have their dishes facing south.


How would cabling work if I do install an antenna on the roof?


It's come down to OTA for me because Cablevision (Brooklyn cable provider) recently encrypted their QAM signals. Boo.


----------



## only you

Thanks guys, I'll review my gear setup and where the rotor is pointing my antenna. Empire State Building stuff is fine, so the problem must be the rotor position.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Beanturd*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22420543
> 
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> thanks for your reply
> 
> I live in a newly built condo (2007). It's 6 stories tall and I'm on the second floor. There are a bunch of apartment buildings around me but they are all five or six stories tall. I own and I do have acces to the roof. I notice several apartments above me that use Dish/Direct TV and have their dishes facing south.
> 
> How would cabling work if I do install an antenna on the roof?
> 
> It's come down to OTA for me because Cablevision (Brooklyn cable provider) recently encrypted their QAM signals. Boo.



All their signals? So they forcing you to rent a box?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22422462
> 
> 
> All their signals? So they forcing you to rent a box?



Yes. Cablevision went "green", claiming that by encrypting everything, they would have to make fewer truck rolls, thereby saving the environment. Your entire subscription would be controlled from the Central Office. They also claimed it would cut down on theft (namely, drops left "active" that could not be terminated for lack of access to the roof / media closet / etc..


Cablevision asked for and received a waiver to encrypt all video service. So yes, you need a STB to receive even Broadcast Basic. Makes that service something on the order of ~$25 per month. I am sure you would be ahead within 6 months cost-wise if you could install an antenna.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Beanturd*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22420543
> 
> 
> I live in a newly built condo (2007). It's 6 stories tall and I'm on the second floor. There are a bunch of apartment buildings around me but they are all five or six stories tall. I own and I do have acces to the roof. I notice several apartments above me that use Dish/Direct TV and have their dishes facing south.
> 
> How would cabling work if I do install an antenna on the roof?
> 
> It's come down to OTA for me because Cablevision (Brooklyn cable provider) recently encrypted their QAM signals. Boo.



I assume that the cable drop in your apartment is useless simply because there are no useable video signals on it... If you were paying for service, this wouldn't be an issue. That being written....


You'd need to buy a rooftop antenna.

You'd need to buy a mast (if there isn't one on your roof).

You'd need to ground the antenna.

You'd need to find a way to run the cable from the antenna to your apartment. The sloppiest way is to throw the cable over the side of the roof above your window. To make it right, you'd have to anchor it every couple of feet or so. You wouldn't want your neighbors to cut your cable because the wind blows it against their windows all the time.


There are many variables to consider.


Have you tried moving the antenna around your apartment?


If your neighbors have dish, then it's a possibility for you, too. Dish has a cheap package at $15, which includes your local channels, no HD except your locals, but you do get some nice cable networks..
http://www.dish.com/entertainment/packages/welcome/ 


You may have to buy your equipment, though, which means a decent up-front payment....


Many solutions exist...



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## mikepier

I just noticed tonight the 10 o'clock news on My9 is in HD. I don't know when they started, but for the longest time they were in SD .


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22424023
> 
> 
> I just noticed tonight the 10 o'clock news on My9 is in HD. I don't know when they started, but for the longest time they were in SD .



The first HD cast was on Monday the 10th.


----------



## mikepier

Its about time. Maybe now I'll watch the news on My9 more often.


----------



## LenL

TVGOS CLock info off in the NY City MArket by aboout 7 minutes. THis happened about 5-6 month ago too. Took about a week to fix.


----------



## LenL

Actuallyof the 3 newscasts at 10 PM this is the more professional no nonsense news cast. To the point news for the most part in 30 minutes. PIX and FOX just stretch the news out with lots of good stuff but also lots of commentators like Mocker, Mendke, Lionel etc. FOX needs to get rid of Greg.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22424705
> 
> 
> Actuallyof the 3 newscasts at 10 PM this is the more professional no nonsense news cast. To the point news for the most part in 30 minutes. PIX and FOX just stretch the news out with lots of good stuff but also lots of commentators like Mocker, Mendke, Lionel etc. FOX needs to get rid of Greg.


Slightly off topic here but Greg was great in mornings where he can do his "schtick", not so good in evenings and nights. FOX needs to get rid of awful corny Dave Price and put Greg back where he belongs!


----------



## fiddlerontheroof

Forget about Greg and Dave Price....FOX needs to get Kerry Drew in the studio so she can get more face time for our viewing pleasure


----------



## markrubin

could someone update me on when broadcasting from 1 World Trade might begin?


Last I heard they were still offering/ negotiating licenses for the new site?


any stations signed up yet?


sorry if asked/ answered already


currently I get some HD channels OTA from Empire State building: would love to get more but there are terrain issues


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22429579
> 
> 
> could someone update me on when broadcasting from 1 World Trade might begin?
> 
> Last I heard they were still offering/ negotiating licenses for the new site?
> 
> any stations signed up yet?
> 
> sorry if asked/ answered already
> 
> currently I get some HD channels OTA from Empire State building: would love to get more but there are terrain issues



I wouldn't hold my breath.


In the current economic climate, I don't think you will find many broadcasters willing to invest in the infrastructure required to relocate down to 1 world trade. They lost their original setup on 9/11. They had to install a new setup at Empire. I just don't see them moving down the street. The money isn't there.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## markrubin

^^^


Thanks Doug


My company provided some equipment to the original site: I visited the top floor (transmitter site) several times


1 World trade is an ideal location: hopefully it is just a matter of time until they come back


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22429777
> 
> 
> I wouldn't hold my breath.
> 
> In the current economic climate, I don't think you will find many broadcasters willing to invest in the infrastructure required to relocate down to 1 world trade. They lost their original setup on 9/11. They had to install a new setup at Empire. I just don't see them moving down the street. The money isn't there.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Hope not my aunt would lose channels.


----------



## Ken Ross




> Quote:





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22429854
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> Thanks Doug
> 
> My company provided some equipment to the original site: I visited the top floor (transmitter site) several times
> 
> 1 World trade is an ideal location: hopefully it is just a matter of time until they come back



Mark, you're getting your locals from D*, right? I'm assuming you wouldn't bother receiving them via OTA if transmissions resumed from there?


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken Ross*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22432318
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16230#post_22429854
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> Thanks Doug
> 
> My company provided some equipment to the original site: I visited the top floor (transmitter site) several times
> 
> 1 World trade is an ideal location: hopefully it is just a matter of time until they come back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mark, you're getting your locals from D*, right? I'm assuming you wouldn't bother receiving them via OTA if transmissions resumed from there?
Click to expand...


Ken


yes I get them from D* but would much prefer to get them direct: I think that gives me the best PQ


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *northshoreli*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16170#post_22358588
> 
> 
> WCBS HD 2 has RF 22 LD Low-Power Digital TV Station
> 
> ON the Air as of Aug 30, 2012
> 
> Licensee (Owner): CBS BROADCASTING INC. (CBS Corporation)
> 
> Service Designation: LD Low-Power Digital TV Station
> 
> Channel: 22 518 - 524 MHz Modification of Construction Permit (Expires 09/15/2012)
> 
> File Number: BMPCDT-20120305ABN Facility ID Number: 9610
> 
> Application ID Number: 1490007
> 
> The proposed transmitter site is now in operation copy and paste the link below.
> https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Attachment/getattachment.jsp?appn=101490007&qnum=5120&copynum=1&exhcnum=1




Wow. Wildly underwhelmed by the change here. would have hoped for a much less directional pattern, given the number of impacted people with the WCBS/WFSB 33 fiasco. Sigh.


----------



## Trip in VA

The FCC requires that fill-in translators constrain their contours to within the previous analog coverage contour.


- Trip


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22434191
> 
> 
> The FCC requires that fill-in translators constrain their contours to within the previous analog coverage contour.
> 
> - Trip



Understood, but there wasn't nearly the interference between 2 (WCBS) and 3 (WFSB) as there is with the 2 stations on the same channel! The translator can still fill in more of the impacted areas **within the old analog contour** , but it's chosen not to. Argh.


----------



## Trip in VA

It looks to have about as broad a coverage area as could be expected from that tower location. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1337960&extras=1514427 


- Trip


----------



## LenL

CBS 2.1 reception came back for me on my channel master 4228 antenna after being missing in action all summer. It went from no reception at all to now it is in the mid 80s and higher. Probably one of those unexplanable things. Meanwhile the other 2 antennas I have that are mounted lower never had a problem all summer.


----------



## KEVINL71

Could fall foliage be the reason...or is that not a factor yet?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KEVINL71*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22439726
> 
> 
> Could fall foliage be the reason...or is that not a factor yet?



I don't think it is possible to explain this from the weather, or the foliage which by me is till pretty much on the trees. It might have been due to some type of interference which my higher mounted antenna picked up that block channel 2.1. I'm not going to try and figure it out but thought is worth mentioning as one of those things that OTA succumbs to that can't be explained. There are people on this forum who have had odd issues with other channels from time to time too. That is why I have put up other antennas. I have options when there are issues and I am lucky that when a particular channel is an issue one of my other 2 antennas can usually (almost 100% of the time so far) pick up the station.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22438991
> 
> 
> CBS 2.1 reception came back for me on my channel master 4228 antenna after being missing in action all summer. It went from no reception at all to now it is in the mid 80s and higher. Probably one of those unexplanable things. Meanwhile the other 2 antennas I have that are mounted lower never had a problem all summer.


I have an issue like that.. I can get 4.1 during the day but at night it's gone.. It gets frustrating because when I get it back in the day the signal is like high 60's


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22438991
> 
> 
> CBS 2.1 reception came back for me on my channel master 4228 antenna after being missing in action all summer. It went from no reception at all to now it is in the mid 80s and higher. Probably one of those unexplanable things. Meanwhile the other 2 antennas I have that are mounted lower never had a problem all summer.


Actually, I also had some issues with CBS 2-1 , weak signals, pixelation, now with the NFL, and Fall seasonshows coming on, everything is back to normal -good, solid signal, no problema


----------



## AloEuro

The ch.3-1,2,3,4 Buena Vista ,3 streams only Spanish same program, and 3-3 Christian broadcats, Cornerstone TV, are ch. 50, operating out of Edison, NJ.much stronger power to reach NY- L.I.

It seems to me that was the N.J. PBS- NJN


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

For anyone who can receive WKOB-LD New York, please turn to virtual channel 42-6, which recently started airing Almavision.


The picture has been frozen for a few days now. For WKOB-LD, this is nothing new. But it is the specific frozen image that appears to be sort of... interesting


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22437600
> 
> 
> It looks to have about as broad a coverage area as could be expected from that tower location. http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1337960&extras=1514427
> 
> - Trip



Has anyone picked up this signal yet?

I just tried looking for signal on 22 and did not see anything.

I'm seeing WLIW 21 just fine, but nothing, not even a blip from 22.


----------



## northshoreli

Both WCBS transmitters Empire State Building and WLNY tower located in Ridge, Long Island, NY are on the air this day Sept 29, 2012. The WCBS Digital Fill in Translator on RF 22 went on the air a month ago. If you live inside the coverage map contours and have line of site to either transmitter you should be able to pick up RF33 or RF22.
http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1337960&extras=1514427


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *northshoreli*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22445942
> 
> 
> Both WCBS transmitters Empire State Building and WLNY tower located in Ridge, Long Island, NY are on the air this day Sept 29, 2012. The WCBS Digital Fill in Translator on RF 22 went on the air a month ago. If you live inside the coverage map contours and have line of site to either transmitter you should be able to pick up RF33 or RF22.



Thank you. That explains a lot to me. I was thinking 22 was going to light up on WLIWs tower which I think was the original plan before the WLNY purchase.

I have a decent shot at WLIW, but not WLNY, it is a little too far east for me (176 degrees). I have a mountain ridge that blocks me on anything below 180 degrees, so with the low power I don't see a blip of signal.

For now I still get 33. Most likely, when the leaves fall off the trees, I'll be back to no CBS. The leaves help me to null the signal from WFSB, so when the leaves are on the trees, I get CBS a few points above the digital cliff.

Back in the days before the transition, WCBS used to be my strongest signal, when it broadcasted from RF 56.

Who knows, maybe when the leaves fall off the trees, I'll get RF 22. LOL


----------



## AloEuro

Ch. 23 - 1,2,3 of 3 streams 2 different Spanish/Mexican programs and 23-4 India in Hindu and English subtitles comedy,movies. During week the signal is very weak, on weekends it is stronger (weekend channel)


----------



## MrKenmore

New CBS transmitter working great for me. I was doing just ok with the signal from the ESB using my CM 4228. Maybe mid to high 60's. When is rescanned I had two channel 2's. The new one which I assume is from ridge comes in aroun the mid 80's. Very nice. Still having some difficulty with channel 11. Not totally reliable. I even got a VHF yagi antenna for it. Still need to play around with it.


----------



## northshoreli

The coveage map below shows WCBS RF33 Empire State Building, NY and WFSB RF33 Hartford, CT with the overlap causing the co-channel interference. Now with the new WCBS Digital Low Power Translator on the air on RF22 from Ridge NY many over the air viewers can now receive CBS television again.
http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1337960&map=N&contour=Y&pop=N&incpop=&excpop=&lprw=N&head=Y&asrn=&extras=1514427%2C1023606&cir=200&circen=40.7483333333%2C-73.9861111111


----------



## KEVINL71

All I know about WFSB-TV channel 3 is that they have a 1 million watt signal, transmitting from their site on Deercliff Road in Avon, close to the West Hartford town line. What I wonder is this: Which of these digital signals were on first? WCBS-TV at the Empire State Building or WFSB-TV from the above Avon Mountain site?


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KEVINL71*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22468828
> 
> 
> All I know about WFSB-TV channel 3 is that they have a 1 million watt signal, transmitting from their site on Deercliff Road in Avon, close to the West Hartford town line. What I wonder is this: Which of these digital signals were on first? WCBS-TV at the Empire State Building or WFSB-TV from the above Avon Mountain site?



WFSB has been transmitting on RF 33 since they first started transmitting in digital. They went to 1 Megawatt maybe two years or so before the digital transition.

WCBS was on RF 56 before the transition. Since the transition, we have the current mess of both stations in adjoining markets on the same channel.


----------



## jpru34

Channel 9 - Last couple of days I have had no signal at all (ie 0%) for WWOR - 9.1. Hopefully this is just temporary....... I have no issues with any other channel that broadcasts from the ESB.


----------



## KEVINL71

@GSfromCT: I wonder how many people in Connecticut can receive that new channel 2 rebroadcaster? Is that what it would be known as in 2012? I can't even receive a lick from Springfield, MA here in southern Hartford County. Last time I checked, WFSB-TV 3-2, which had been an SD version of _CBS 3 Springfield_ is now just a blank channel.


----------



## GSfromCT

Probably most of Fairfield county and lower New Haven county.

Fairfield county is in the NYC DMA.

I'm surprised you cannot get Springfield, you can't be that many miles away.

Or is it just CBS? I know WFSB bought that station and why they were broadcasting it on 3-2. Maybe they killed it?


----------



## KEVINL71

Springfield, MA was always horrible in the analog days. Channels 22 (NBC), 40 (ABC) and 57 (PBS) _never_ came in correctly. However, when I lived in the east end of my city for a time in 1991, channel 22 was damn near perfect. Channel 40 and 57 were a bit snowy but still watchable. Even channel 18 of Hartford was watchable, just before they were forced off the air by the FCC in April of 1991 (they came back around 1997 or so).


With digital, I still get nothing from there. I don't have a roof antenna where I live. Installing one here wouldn't be practical and the landlord won't allow it anyways.


As for WFSB-TV 3-2, it's now just a blank channel when I tinker with an indoor antenna. Eyewitness News NOW is on 3-3 and WFSB Fairfield County is on 3-4, like they were before.


Lastly, I'm sure my friend in Stratford would get that new WCBS-TV Long Island translator. However, I don't think he has a roof antenna at his place. I do know he's not far from CT Route 110 and the Sikorsky campus is a short distance to his north.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22470418
> 
> 
> Channel 9 - Last couple of days I have had no signal at all (ie 0%) for WWOR - 9.1. Hopefully this is just temporary....... I have no issues with any other channel that broadcasts from the ESB.




No one responded so I will. I have had issues this past summer but none lately. Sorry I can't be of help.


----------



## kickass69

I'm hearing that CBS will sell the transmitter and license of channel 55 but keep the "WLNY 10/55" brand as a cable only channel.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22476547
> 
> 
> I'm hearing that CBS will sell the transmitter and license of channel 55 but keep the "WLNY 10/55" brand as a cable only channel.


Great way to keep the consumer in mind


----------



## jpru34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22473251
> 
> 
> No one responded so I will. I have had issues this past summer but none lately. Sorry I can't be of help.


Thanks for the Reply. I'm still at 0% for WWOR tonight but 100% for every other ESB channel. Oh well.....


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22478833
> 
> 
> Thanks for the Reply. I'm still at 0% for WWOR tonight but 100% for every other ESB channel. Oh well.....



Strange as I am further away than you are and 9.1 is coming in fine now. I watch the news at 10 PM just about every week nite and not a blip on my reception. Right now I have pretty good reception on all the major NY stations.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpru34*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22478833
> 
> 
> Thanks for the Reply. I'm still at 0% for WWOR tonight but 100% for every other ESB channel. Oh well.....


I had some pixelation on 9-1, now I watch it on 9-2 with no problem


----------



## AloEuro

34-1 FoxMundo 1280 x 720p 60 Hz Dolby Mono primarily in Spanish also some English subtitles

34-2 a ATEVE 704 x 480i 30 Hz Dolby Mono Spanish

34-3 FoxMundo 704 x480i 30 Hz Dolby Mono Shows the same program as 34-1


----------



## hancox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GSfromCT*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16260#post_22471332
> 
> 
> Probably most of Fairfield county and lower New Haven county.
> 
> Fairfield county is in the NYC DMA.



Not even close. Even the contour map leaves much of Fairfield County dark. Just stupidity to have adjacent markets with the same parent network on the same channel. And, this is someone who can get WCBS-DT with LOS at over 50 miles out! (Not a lick of WFSB though)


----------



## AloEuro

Few days ago I did Full Scan, I've got 73 ch. but to big surprise it did not pick the 3 ch. of WPIX 11-1,2,3 and manually it showed 0-15, 0 -15 signal


----------



## AntAltMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22486890
> 
> 
> Few days ago I did Full Scan, I've got 73 ch. but to big surprise it did not pick the 3 ch. of WPIX 11-1,2,3 and manually it showed 0-15, 0 -15 signal



What are you using for an antenna, and how far are you from the WPIX transmitting tower? WPIX is a VHF channel. Are you using a VHF antenna?


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AntAltMike*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22489305
> 
> 
> What are you using for an antenna, and how far are you from the WPIX transmitting tower? WPIX is a VHF channel. Are you using a VHF antenna?


I am using 2 indoor rabbit ears with dish and analog roof top Antena all connected to 4-1 splitter with 1 rabbit ear connection to converter box.

I am about 3.5 - 4 miles from ESB -Empire State Building, I am happy with the Antena connections with 3 streams of WPIX 11 it gives me 76 channels including doubles like ION 31/12 with doubles of 32/35 it would give 79ch. I try to edit it to 60ch.


----------



## keyboard21

Any new channels or Sub stations coming soon?










thanks


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22496285
> 
> 
> Any new channels or Sub stations coming soon?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks



A better question. Any worthwhile new channels or substations coming with content that would be meaningful, useful, entertaining?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22496285
> 
> 
> Any new channels or Sub stations coming soon?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22502204
> 
> 
> A better question. Any worthwhile new channels or substations coming with content that would be meaningful, useful, entertaining?



The answers are: No, yes, and yes!


This is not specifically a New York market story, but according to this report, a new subchannel will replace an existing subchannel in the New York market and other major markets:

*COZI TV: NBC going retro on new digital network* 


If the plan follows through, NBC's NonStop will finally... stop.


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22503092
> 
> 
> The answers are: No, yes, and yes!
> 
> This is not specifically a New York market story, but according to this report, a new subchannel will replace an existing subchannel in the New York market and other major markets:
> *COZI TV: NBC going retro on new digital network*
> 
> If the plan follows through, NBC's NonStop will finally... stop.



Even more importantly, any new sub-channel that comes will hopefully be displayed at the very least in the correct 16:9 aspect ratio like NonStop did.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22503092
> 
> 
> The answers are: No, yes, and yes!
> 
> This is not specifically a New York market story, but according to this report, a new subchannel will replace an existing subchannel in the New York market and other major markets:
> *COZI TV: NBC going retro on new digital network*
> 
> If the plan follows through, NBC's NonStop will finally... stop.



What makes you think that NBC's NonStop will finally... stop .The link you posted said they are not sure what it will replace


Why do we need another OLD channel?



PS thanks for the news


J*ust saw this article on sitcomsonline about a new network showing classic TV. Its called Cozi and starts in January.

http://blog.sitcomso...on-cozi-tv.html 


We hinted on our message board earlier this week that a new over the air digital subchannel focusing on classic TV will be launching January 1, and now some info has been reported. The new network will be named Cozi TV and will be from NBCUniversal. It will be replacing digital subchannel Nonstop on the NBC Owned Television Stations. So if you're in the NBC owned markets and have Nonstop, you'll have Cozi TV come January 1. Among the series they will have at launch will include comedies like Burns & Allen, The Lucy Show, Ozzie & Harriet, Red Skelton, Groucho Marx; action dramas like Charlie's Angels, The Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, Magnum P.I., and classic family and western series like Lassie, The Roy Rogers Show, The Lone Ranger, The Virginian, The Adventures of Kit Carson and Alias Smith and Jones, Marcus Welby, M.D., and Highway to Heaven. A few movies will be featured in the afternoons. Currently, Highway to Heaven has been airing weekdays at 12 noon on Nonstop on all NBC Owned Television Stations, so it will likely remain at 12 noon when Cozi takes over the space on Jan. 1. Nonstop was first launched in New York in March 2009 and then expanded to the other NBC Owned Television Stations in 2010 and 2011. Of the ten markets that NBC owns, nine of them have a Nonstop station, with only the Hartford market not included. Thus, chances of Cozi TV in Hartford are not certain as the other nine markets NBC owns (NY, LA, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Washington DC, Dallas, Miami, and San Diego).


Cozi TV will join the crowded digital subchannel world that includes fellow classic TV stations like Antenna TV, MeTV, THIStv, Bounce TV and RTV. Stay tuned for the official announcement and full details, like an actual schedule, as soon as it is announced. Much more to come, so get "cozi" and comfortable!*


----------



## RF Burns

Big News for OTA Fans:

http://blog.sitcomsonline.com/2012/10/new-classic-tv-digital-station-cozi-tv.html#ixzz29qTjEQT3 


Thursday, October 18, 2012

New Classic TV Digital Station Cozi TV Coming January 2013


We hinted on our message board earlier this week that a new over the air digital subchannel focusing on classic TV will be launching January 1, and now some info has been reported. The new network will be named Cozi TV and will be from NBCUniversal. It will be replacing digital subchannel Nonstop on the NBC Owned Television Stations. So if you're in the NBC owned markets and have Nonstop, you'll have Cozi TV come January 1. Among the series they will have at launch will include comedies like Burns & Allen, The Lucy Show, Ozzie & Harriet, Red Skelton, Groucho Marx; action dramas like Charlie's Angels, The Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, Magnum P.I., and classic family and western series like Lassie, The Roy Rogers Show, The Lone Ranger, The Virginian, The Adventures of Kit Carson and Alias Smith and Jones, Marcus Welby, M.D., and Highway to Heaven. A few movies will be featured in the afternoons. Currently, Highway to Heaven has been airing weekdays at 12 noon on Nonstop on all NBC Owned Television Stations, so it will likely remain at 12 noon when Cozi takes over the space on Jan. 1. Nonstop was first launched in New York in March 2009 and then expanded to the other NBC Owned Television Stations in 2010 and 2011. Of the ten markets that NBC owns, nine of them have a Nonstop station, with only the Hartford market not included. Thus, chances of Cozi TV in Hartford are not certain as the other nine markets NBC owns (NY, LA, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Washington DC, Dallas, Miami, and San Diego).

Cozi TV will join the crowded digital subchannel world that includes fellow classic TV stations like Antenna TV, MeTV, THIStv, Bounce TV and RTV. Stay tuned for the official announcement and full details, like an actual schedule, as soon as it is announced. Much more to come, so get "cozi" and comfortable


----------



## AloEuro

In the morning .your 9-1 had pixelation 0-15-0-27- up and down, my 9-2 had 100 % signal level, no problem, on the other hand WPIX 11-1,2,3 all 3streams have the same signal level


----------



## jam-h

Why getting NYC stations when aimed 70+-deg off (for LI stations)?? Also, anyone in NYC get WLNY 55?


Hi,


Nice Oct weather so… Helped a potential Brooklyn cable cutter install an inexpensive roof antenna they ordered - it at least looks like a very directional UHF Yagi (triple/euro style?)+reflectors - to get Ch 21 LI +.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/STELLAR-LABS-30-2155-/30-2155 


WLIW (Ch. 21) is strong and steady @ ~30 mi. (Viewer was half hoping for WLNY (10/55) @ 60mi, but RF 47 barely registers on the tuner (Zenith box). Anyone get it from NYC with a better antenna?)


Thing that surprised me is that it's getting all the NYC stations - including VHF 7-11-13 strong. I know the ESB is only 9 mi, but it's aimed 70 degrees off. Is this expected?


Thanks for commenting. I am curious.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22529089
> 
> 
> In the morning .your 9-1 had pixelation 0-15-0-27- up and down, my 9-2 had 100 % signal level, no problem, on the other hand WPIX 11-1,2,3 all 3streams have the same signal level



There should be no difference in signal power between sub-channels of a station since they're all the same signal.


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22531776
> 
> 
> There should be no difference in signal power between sub-channels of a station since they're all the same signal.



That is generally true. However, in Los angeles, physical channel KCOP 13.4 will display as 11.2, a subchannel of KTTV.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22531983
> 
> 
> That is generally true. However, in Los angeles, physical channel KCOP 13.4 will display as 11.2, a subchannel of KTTV.



I supposed I could have been more explicit. Sub-channels that are on a *single transmitted channel* will have the signal strength. Note emphasis added.


This is not to be confused with the somewhat exotic circumstance you've mentioned that is seen in a few cities around the country.


----------



## nyctveng

As most of you know due to Hurricane Sandy, some of the local stations have been pushing network programming to sub channels or sister stations. NBC programming to Non Stop and ABC programming to LiveWell. WCBS has been pushing network programming to sister station WLNY. That is great for cable viewers with power but a big disservice for OTA viewers in areas from Central/North NJ to the Hudson Valley, NY. They would be better served if they pushed it to WLNY and 2.2. As of now 2.2 is a simulcast of coverage on CBS main channel on a window along with the usual news text on the right. There is little or no cable carriage of 2.2 so no cable viewer will complain about the loss of 2.2 or duplicate content on multiple channels and no OTA viewer will miss it. There is little overlap of WCBS & WLNY OTA signals. Opinions?


----------



## mikepier

Several people probably can't read or post due to no power or limited cell/WiFi service.

I have no power at home, but thankfully I have a 750W car inverter that is powering a small fridge in my basement, plus my 57" Mitsu DLP with an OTA antenna on my roof. I have Cablevision, but the lines came down with the electric in the neighborhood. I hooked up my antenna a couple of years ago as a back-up.

Its nice to see what is going on in the world rather than being felt like cut-off.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22543245
> 
> 
> Several people probably can't read or post due to no power or limited cell/WiFi service.
> 
> I have no power at home, but thankfully I have a 750W car inverter that is powering a small fridge in my basement, plus my 57" Mitsu DLP with an OTA antenna on my roof. I have Cablevision, but the lines came down with the electric in the neighborhood. I hooked up my antenna a couple of years ago as a back-up.
> 
> Its nice to see what is going on in the world rather than being felt like cut-off.


Does your car need to be running for that inverter to work?


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22544431
> 
> 
> Does your car need to be running for that inverter to work?


Operating the inverter causes the battery to discharge and running the car keeps the battery charged as long as you have gasoline.


I have one of those battery booster packs that I keep fully charged in my car during the Winter in case I need a "jump start." I have used that indoors to operate an inverter to (sparingly) watch TV during power outages, but it eventually runs down, too. Besides recharging it from a wall outlet, I can plug into my car's accessory power outlet while idleing or driving.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22546301
> 
> 
> Operating the inverter causes the battery to discharge and running the car keeps the battery charged as long as you have gasoline.
> 
> I have one of those battery booster packs that I keep fully charged in my car during the Winter in case I need a "jump start." I have used that indoors to operate an inverter to (sparingly) watch TV during power outages, but it eventually runs down, too. Besides recharging it from a wall outlet, I can plug into my car's accessory power outlet while idleing or driving.



Thanks would you have a link to the one you use? Or send me a pm


thanks


----------



## mikepier

I doubt you are going to find one now, but its a Sears Die Hard 750W invereter
http://www.sears.com/diehard-750-watt-mobile-power-inverter-with-digital/p-02871495000P?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=G5 


Yes, you do need to keep the car running, but its the same as having a generator run, only its quieter.

Obviously now gas is an issue, but I have a full tank and I don't plan on driving over the weekend, and I took Monday off from work. So hopefully this gas crisis will be over by then.


I have not tried it on my gas furnace yet. Its suppose to get chilly at night the next couple of days. The biggest amp draw is the blower motor. I'm going to try it out when I get home


----------



## KEVINL71

This may be an odd time to ask, with many recovering from Hurricane Sandy and all. Anyways, here goes:


Are any TV stations planning to move to the new Freedom Tower at the WTC center site, once it's finshed?


----------



## rcodey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22550785
> 
> 
> I doubt you are going to find one now, but its a Sears Die Hard 750W invereter
> http://www.sears.com/diehard-750-watt-mobile-power-inverter-with-digital/p-02871495000P?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=G5
> 
> Yes, you do need to keep the car running, but its the same as having a generator run, only its quieter.
> 
> Obviously now gas is an issue, but I have a full tank and I don't plan on driving over the weekend, and I took Monday off from work. So hopefully this gas crisis will be over by then.
> 
> I have not tried it on my gas furnace yet. Its suppose to get chilly at night the next couple of days. The biggest amp draw is the blower motor. I'm going to try it out when I get home



Purchased one on Sunday at KMart for much less than the Sears price.


----------



## mikepier

Well, I tried my inverter on my furnace, but I don't know what happened, my inverter just died. The fuses are good. Thankfully I got power back the next day. At least I can go back to Sears now and return or exchange when they get others in, but I'm going to wait till this gas situation clears up.

The only thing I did differently is I backfed it into my furnace through an outlet that was connected to it. I did shut the breaker to my furnace, but my neutral was still going back to the panel, so I don't know if that screwed up my inverter.


----------



## frank70

If your furnace is somewhat older, it will have an induction motor with capacitive start (or perhaps even 2 motors if it's an oil burner for a hot air system). Induction motors will not operate correctly on the pulse waveform produced by an inverter or non-sinusoidal UPS. Plus they need a lot of current to start, probably way more than the load capacity of your inverter. If the motor doesn't start (which it most likely won't), it will just act like a short-circuit and either pop a circuit breaker or fuse in the inverter or just destroy it. There are inverters that produce sine waves but they are very expensive and you're not going to find one at Sears. Reserve the inexpensive pulse-waveform inverters for electronic equipment with switching power supplies that don't give a whoot what the input waveform is.


A newer gas furnace with a DC motor and controller boards might squeak by with a pulsed output inverter, but might still draw more current than your inverter could supply continuously.


----------



## ADTech

A 750 W inverter isn't going to be able to start and run an HVAC blower motor. Too much start-up current.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22561420
> 
> 
> If your furnace is somewhat older, it will have an induction motor with capacitive start (or perhaps even 2 motors if it's an oil burner for a hot air system). Induction motors will not operate correctly on the pulse waveform produced by an inverter or non-sinusoidal UPS. Plus they need a lot of current to start, probably way more than the load capacity of your inverter. If the motor doesn't start (which it most likely won't), it will just act like a short-circuit and either pop a circuit breaker or fuse in the inverter or just destroy it. There are inverters that produce sine waves but they are very expensive and you're not going to find one at Sears. Reserve the inexpensive pulse-waveform inverters for electronic equipment with switching power supplies that don't give a whoot what the input waveform is.
> 
> A newer gas furnace with a DC motor and controller boards might squeak by with a pulsed output inverter, but might still draw more current than your inverter could supply continuously.


You would need a 2500 watt inverter to safely operate items from a single 20-amp circuit breaker. For a 15-amp circuit breaker you'd only need an 1800 watt inverter. A 750 watt inverter equates to a 6 amp circuit breaker but I don't think they're used nor available that small in home breaker boxes.


----------



## frank70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22562757
> 
> 
> You would need a 2500 watt inverter to safely operate items from a single 20-amp circuit breaker. For a 15-amp circuit breaker you'd only need an 1800 watt inverter. A 750 watt inverter equates to a 6 amp circuit breaker but I don't think they're used nor available that small in home breaker boxes.


I know this is off-topic, but a 2500 watt inverter fully loaded would be pulling something like 200 Amps from your car battery, sort of like a starter motor. Figure the battery would last less than a minute. Plus, as I've said before, the starup current on an induction motor will be many times it's steady-state rated current; that coupled with the s**tty waveform means the motor is very likely to just stand very still and get hot, all the while draining your car battery. Your furnace is NOT a small fridge.


Moral: get a generator!


Now back to your regularly secheduled OTA reception issues...


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ADTech*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16290#post_22562281
> 
> 
> A 750 W inverter isn't going to be able to start and run an HVAC blower motor. Too much start-up current.



For the record, before the inverter died, it powered up my fridge in the basement. It was a smaller fridge, which according to the plate on the door had a full load of 6.5 amps, assuming this was at start-up. Once the compressor was running, the inverter displayed 360 watts (had a digital readout). I then connected my TV, which added another 250 watts. So I was still well under 750W. I assumed that if a modified sine wave worked on a fridge it work work on a blower motor.


----------



## LenL

Was wondering:


How did everyone who had an outdoor antenna make out? My 4 antennas survived but lots of trees did not in my area.


----------



## mikepier

I have an old Radio Shack VU-75 that had 1 element bent in the closed position, but I opened it back up. I was seriously considering taking it down before the hurricane, but I decided to take a chance.

Someone around the block from me had lost his entire mast and antenna assembly. it was blown on the ground.


----------



## LenL

I was expecting damage, and happy I had none but after seeing all the trees in my neighborhood (inlcuding one of mine) come down, it's a wonder that my antennas were not damaged. Also I did not see any damage to the antennas up on roofs in the neighborhood. Not sure anyone but me are OTA.


----------



## Aero 1

I hate to tell you guys i told you so, but less than a year ago, i told you so:

*Guide Plus+, TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS), Rovi Guide To Be No More!
*
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438076/guide-plus-tv-guide-on-screen-tvgos-rovi-guide-to-be-no-more 



Also:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RobMeyer1*  /t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25290#post_22559681
> 
> 
> I called the above phone #. The engineer I talked to confirmed that TV Guide is being discontinued. Approximately 20% of markets have been terminated as of Nov. 1st and the rest will be discontinued over the next 6 months!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RobMeyer1*  /t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25290#post_22559640
> 
> 
> I received a reply from KNME:
> 
> "Mr. Meyer,
> 
> We were instructed by the distributor for TV Guide to disconnect the
> 
> equipment which distributes the TV Guide information last week. For more
> 
> information, you may contact them as follows:
> 
> Call Gemstar/Rovicorp Consumer Electronics Product Support at 800-386-7380.
> 
> Email can be sent to [email protected]
> 
> Thank you for writing and thank you for watching New Mexico PBS."
> 
> Looks like most of New Mexico will no longer get TV Guide.



Time to start planning and start getting your aunts, grandmothers, great grandmothers and yourselves internet service and IP enabled equipment if you still want some kind of guide service.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22571784
> 
> 
> I hate to tell you guys i told you so, but less than a year ago, i told you so:
> *Guide Plus+, TV Guide On Screen (TVGOS), Rovi Guide To Be No More!
> *
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438076/guide-plus-tv-guide-on-screen-tvgos-rovi-guide-to-be-no-more
> 
> Also:
> 
> Time to start planning and start getting your aunts, grandmothers, great grandmothers and yourselves internet service and IP enabled equipment if you still want some kind of guide service.


No will my aunt get internet. She does not know how to use internet and does not want to learn. She will live with PSIP and not be happy.


Did they give a reason why it is ending?


----------



## keyboard21

I saw this on the other link provided
*

As of 11/1/12, Gemstar will no longer be transmitting TV Guide data from PBS stations. If you receive any calls from viewers indicating that their TV Guide data is missing, please have them call Gemstar/Rovicorp Consumer Electronics Product Support at 800-386-7380. Email can be sent to [email protected]


Manager of Engineering Maintenance

WNED-TV*


Does this mean NYC Cbs is still ok? Only PBS is affected?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22572413
> 
> 
> I saw this on the other link provided
> *
> 
> As of 11/1/12, Gemstar will no longer be transmitting TV Guide data from PBS stations. If you receive any calls from viewers indicating that their TV Guide data is missing, please have them call Gemstar/Rovicorp Consumer Electronics Product Support at 800-386-7380. Email can be sent to [email protected]
> 
> Manager of Engineering Maintenance
> 
> WNED-TV*
> 
> Does this mean NYC Cbs is still ok? Only PBS is affected?



"Beginning on November 1st 2012 and completing in April 2013 *Rovi will be discontinuing the broadcast data service for consumer electronic guides in North America.* The guides known as Guide Plus+, TV Guide on Screen and the Rovi Guide will no longer have the ability to receive data via the broadcast data service. Please contact your CE Manufacturer for further details."


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22572441
> 
> 
> "Beginning on November 1st 2012 and completing in April 2013 *Rovi will be discontinuing the broadcast data service for consumer electronic guides in North America.* The guides known as Guide Plus+, TV Guide on Screen and the Rovi Guide will no longer have the ability to receive data via the broadcast data service. Please contact your CE Manufacturer for further details."



Was any reason given. This will affect and hurt people. Especially the elderly. We paid for this service when we bought the DTVpal DVR. Ecostar paid a royalty to TVGOS/ROVI. They were prepaid for this service and I would think open themselves up to a lawsuit. This is unfair in the most severest way.


To bad the government does not take it over. At the very least we deserve a reason why.



You are not happy about this? You are annoyed also?


----------



## mikepier




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22571466
> 
> 
> I was expecting damage, and happy I had none but after seeing all the trees in my neighborhood (inlcuding one of mine) come down, it's a wonder that my antennas were not damaged. Also I did not see any damage to the antennas up on roofs in the neighborhood. Not sure anyone but me are OTA.



I think part of the reason why mine was ok is that the VU-75 is a small antenna, whereas the neighbor around the block had a huge antenna.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22572529
> 
> 
> Was any reason given. This will affect and hurt people. Especially the elderly. We paid for this service when we bought the DTVpal DVR. Ecostar paid a royalty to TVGOS/ROVI. They were prepaid for this service and I would think open themselves up to a lawsuit. This is unfair in the most severest way.
> 
> To bad the government does not take it over. At the very least we deserve a reason why.
> 
> You are not happy about this? You are annoyed also?



if you read the thread that i provided you, you would see that it was a pop up on the device with an explanation that apparently is not acceptable to you. If you are angry about it, call the number or email the contact that is being passed around in that thread.


Like the argument we had a year ago, you seem to misunderstand capitalism and have this misconception of the things you are owed. TVGOS is not an entitlement service that you need to survive, and because you bought a $350 piece of equipment many years ago, it doesnt mean you are owed a lifetime of guide data. Its a private company that i can surely bet clearly stated in that long EULA that your aunt agreed to that service was not promised to her or you for ever and ever. They are not stopping you or the elderly from watching TV, they are just making it harder for you to record it. There is nothing illegal about that and keep dreaming if you think the United States Government should socialize a private held company so she can record General Hospital.


Should i be suinga AMC theaters because they discontinued my AMC Movie Pass membership 3 years ago? no, because that's their prerogative.


I dont care either way because it doesnt affect me. I have 3 tivos that get their guide data from Tribune over the internet and i use the TV Guide app on my iphone or tablet. I also am aware, because i did my homework and read the agreement i entered with tivo when i purchased 3 lifetime units, that i will continue to receive guide data for the lifetime of the device, until Tivo goes away as a company or if Tribune goes under and there is no acceptable replacement.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22572655
> 
> 
> if you read the thread that i provided you, you would see that it was a pop up on the device with an explanation that apparently is not acceptable to you. If you are angry about it, call the number or email the contact that is being passed around in that thread.
> 
> Like the argument we had a year ago, you seem to misunderstand capitalism and have this misconception of the things you are owed. TVGOS is not an entitlement service that you need to survive, and because you bought a $350 piece of equipment many years ago, it doesnt mean you are owed a lifetime of guide data. Its a private company that i can surely bet clearly stated in that long EULA that your aunt agreed to that service was not promised to her or you for ever and ever. They are not stopping you or the elderly from watching TV, they are just making it harder for you to record it. There is nothing illegal about that and keep dreaming if you think the United States Government should socialize a private held company so she can record General Hospital.
> 
> Should i be suinga AMC theaters because they discontinued my AMC Movie Pass membership 3 years ago? no, because that's their prerogative.
> 
> I dont care either way because it doesnt affect me. I have 3 tivos that get their guide data from Tribune over the internet and i use the TV Guide app on my iphone or tablet. I also am aware, because i did my homework and read the agreement i entered with tivo when i purchased 3 lifetime units, that i will continue to receive guide data for the lifetime of the device, until Tivo goes away as a company or if Tribune goes under and there is no acceptable replacement.


Since you have never owned a DTVpal Dvr. I will explain it to you. We paid for tvgos. Lifetime. Nowhere did it say they could cancel it. I will be glad to send you what came in the box with directions. We paid for lifetime and not a few years. You never owned one and would not know about it. The box used TVGuide as a selling feature.


Well maybe if they cancel the Guide app you will then feel the pain of losing guide info. She does little recordings. She liked the accuracy. Yes I e-mailed and tried to call.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22572715
> 
> 
> Since you have never owned a DTVpal Dvr. I will explain it to you. We paid for tvgos. Lifetime. Nowhere did it say they could cancel it. I will be glad to send you what came in the box with directions. We paid for lifetime and not a few years. You never owned one and would not know about it. The box used TVGuide as a selling feature.
> 
> Well maybe if they cancel the Guide app you will then feel the pain of losing guide info. She does little recordings. She liked the accuracy. Yes I e-mailed and tried to call.



because it was a selling feature it automatically means lifetime of use? thats interesting. i look forward to your victory in court then. i look forward to you championing this fight and await the complete take over of a private company.


hey, you should join this topic http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25470 they are going after sony also, maybe the government will take them over as well.


Ive also experienced this "pain" you speak of last year when Rovi decided to drop their Yahoo TV Guide widget on my Vizio tv, guess what, i got over it in a day. maybe i can join you in your lawsuit?


since you have all the boxes and materials, please post a picture or a scan of something in writing that guarantees you lifetime service. for your sake, i hope you are right. i am very interested in the response you get from Rovi.


here you go:

 


they even put a nice note for you saying to contact your (discontinued) CE (Consumer Electronic) Manufacturer for further details.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22572763
> 
> 
> because it was a selling feature it automatically means lifetime of use? thats interesting. i look forward to your victory in court then. i look forward to you championing this fight and await the complete take over of a private company.
> 
> hey, you should join this topic http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/25470 they are going after sony also, maybe the government will take them over as well.
> 
> Ive also experienced this "pain" you speak of last year when Rovi decided to drop their Yahoo TV Guide widget on my Vizio tv, guess what, i got over it in a day. maybe i can join you in your lawsuit?
> 
> since you have all the boxes and materials, please post a picture or a scan of something in writing that guarantees you lifetime service. for your sake, i hope you are right. i am very interested in the response you get from Rovi.


Your compassion is amazing. Guess you do not care for the elderly. It is wrong because they rely on TVGUIDE. We paid for the service. It was included in the high box price. Did you come here to gloat? I do not get why you would do this?


I will post the reaction from Rovi. Thank you for posting the information. Nothing else to discuss till Rovi replys .Unless you know why they are discontinuing service?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22572795
> 
> 
> Your compassion is amazing. Guess you do not care for the elderly. It is wrong because they rely on TVGUIDE. We paid for the service. It was included in the high box price. Did you come here to gloat? I do not get why you would do this?
> 
> I will post the reaction from Rovi. Thank you for posting the information. Nothing else to discuss till Rovi replys .Unless you know why they are discontinuing service?



yes, thats it keyboard, im gloating. i couldnt wait for the day till rovi punishes the elderly in this severe way. Hurricane Sandy and the storm surge is peanuts compared to the end of TV guide.


i posted it because i remember the conversation from a year ago that i and i believe others like KEN told you that it was probably going to happen sooner or later and that IP based technologies are the future. I also posted it to give you and others a heads up so you are not blinded by your aunt calling you in a panic. and like last time, you have this illusion of how things work and the excuse you always use is the elderly. the elderly are NOT BEING TORTURED because of the demise of TV Guide.


----------



## AvidHiker

My my, what have I been missing? TV Guide? That still exists? Sorry, I'm obviously not much of a TV watcher.










FWIW, I've been perfectly happy with PSIP - it's not perfect, but generally works to my satisfaction. At least it's better than nothing!


----------



## 007james

Well, i cut the cord. I ran the auto-scan but for some reason I do not receive FOX-HD or at least I can't find it. Should fox-hd be at 5-1? I do get 5-2 but it is fox-sd. I live right on 21st street, have an indoor supersonic sc-602 purchased from b&h


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Empire State Building Launches New Custom LED Lighting System By Philips Color Kinetics*


With the flip of a giant switch, R & B music star Alicia Keys launched a new era for a landmark New York City skyscraper.


At 9PM EST. Monday night, the Empire State Building launched its new custom LED Lighting System designed by Philips Color Kinetics with a light show that was visible to anyone with a view of the signature skyscraper dominating the skyline in midtown Manhattan. The ripples, cross-fades, sparkles, chasers, sweeps, strobes and bursts were choreographed to synchronize with two of Keys' signature songs: "Girl on Fire" and New York City's 21st Century anthem, "Empire State Of Mind".


The audio was simulcast on four FM radio stations owned by Clear Channel Communications whose transmitting antennas are situated upon the mast and transmitters situated on the upper level floors of the Empire State Building: WHTZ Newark, WKTU Lake Success, WWPR-FM New York, and WLTW New York.


The show was designed to introduce the building's new LED lighting that offers customized light capabilities from a palette of over 16 million colors in limitless combinations.


It just goes to show you're never too old, established or famous to try something different.


© _Giacomo Siffredi, with portions from EXAMINER.com: Empire State Building wows with light show to Alicia Keys music_


This relates to the subject matter discussed on this forum, as the majority of Broadcast FM Radio and Television signals emanate from the Empire State Building. There was some discussion concerning whether this change would adversely some viewers' reception or the transmission of the signals, particularly VHF-Hi Television stations.


I have not observed any reduction in signal strength or disruption of service on any Television channels. It would be interesting to receive reception reports from AVS members to ascertain whether there have been changes in reception elsewhere. If reception remains the same, it would seem that the new lighting will not only bring an exciting new appearance to this historic Manhattan landmark, but it will not adversely impact reception of broadcast signals transmitting from the building's mast.


----------



## ALP

My one antenna survived just fine, however, the tree that was snapped in half and hit my house did not survive. Fortunately, there was relatively minor damage to the house and we did not loose power.


----------



## ALP

I have the same problem with the tuners in my Magnavox SDTV DVR's, but not with my TV's. You will find 5.1 at 44.1. Just think 44.1 instead of 5.1 when you look for Fox TV.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22630358
> 
> *Empire State Building Launches New Custom LED Lighting System By Philips Color Kinetics*
> With the flip of a giant switch, R & B music star Alicia Keys launched a new era for a landmark New York City skyscraper.
> 
> At 9PM EST. Monday night, the Empire State Building launched its new custom LED Lighting System designed by Philips Color Kinetics with a light show that was visible to anyone with a view of the signature skyscraper dominating the skyline in midtown Manhattan. The ripples, cross-fades, sparkles, chasers, sweeps, strobes and bursts were choreographed to synchronize with two of Keys' signature songs: "Girl on Fire" and New York City's 21st Century anthem, "Empire State Of Mind".
> 
> The audio was simulcast on four FM radio stations owned by Clear Channel Communications whose transmitting antennas are situated upon the mast and transmitters situated on the upper level floors of the Empire State Building: WHTZ Newark, WKTU Lake Success, WWPR-FM New York, and WLTW New York.
> 
> The show was designed to introduce the building's new LED lighting that offers customized light capabilities from a palette of over 16 million colors in limitless combinations.
> 
> It just goes to show you're never too old, established or famous to try something different.
> 
> © _Giacomo Siffredi, with portions from EXAMINER.com: Empire State Building wows with light show to Alicia Keys music_
> 
> This relates to the subject matter discussed on this forum, as the majority of Broadcast FM Radio and Television signals emanate from the Empire State Building. There was some discussion concerning whether this change would adversely some viewers' reception or the transmission of the signals, particularly VHF-Hi Television stations.
> 
> I have not observed any reduction in signal strength or disruption of service on any Television channels. It would be interesting to receive reception reports from AVS members to ascertain whether there have been changes in reception elsewhere. If reception remains the same, it would seem that the new lighting will not only bring an exciting new appearance to this historic Manhattan landmark, but it will not adversely impact reception of broadcast signals transmitting from the building's mast.



I did a quick check of my reception on my kitchen HDTV (Sharp Aquos LC-32D43U). I received all of the usual channels just fine.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22630358
> 
> *Empire State Building Launches New Custom LED Lighting System By Philips Color Kinetics*



no issues here. i hope the elderly are ok though.


----------



## LenL

After all my issues with my neighbors led patio lights I was concerned about this but my reception has been fine so far.


----------



## SubaruB4

I need to see if I can get back WCBS and WNBC they have been off my channel line up for a month or two now, not sure if it's because my cable got pinched or what.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22638333
> 
> 
> I need to see if I can get back WCBS and WNBC they have been off my channel line up for a month or two now, not sure if it's because my cable got pinched or what.



Do you get channel 5 (Fox TV)? The reason I ask is they along with NBC and CBS are the three channels that were moved to higher UHF locations when the A to D switch was made.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22638437
> 
> 
> Do you get channel 5 (Fox TV)? The reason I ask is they along with NBC and CBS are the three channels that were moved to higher UHF locations when the A to D switch was made.


Yes I get 5, I lost WCBS and WNBC about 2 months ago it used to come in decent (WCBS) now I get zero signal at all, I think those two channels are the only one that use my outdoor antenna att least the UHF one, I'm using a combiner.


It sucks I wanted to watch the tree lighting but looks like that's not going to happen.


----------



## kickass69

After Hurricane Sandy I can no longer get ABC 7, PIX 11 or Thirteen at all now. The rest of the UHF channels come in fine.


----------



## LenL

Not sure what antenna you are using but if it has VHF elements they could have been damaged as you lost your VHF reception. Something for you to look into.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22639344
> 
> 
> After Hurricane Sandy I can no longer get ABC 7, PIX 11 or Thirteen at all now. The rest of the UHF channels come in fine.



Plus you are quite far out to get good reception. How was it before the storm..You have any figures to give us.


----------



## kickass69

I'm only 7.5 miles from Randolph as the crow flies at higher elevation than you at 1,050 feet above sea level. I'm 36.5 miles as the crow flies miles from the Empire State Building while Randolph is roughly 32 miles from the ESB. Not much difference I'd say. My reception before with ABC 7 was at 80%, PIX 11 was 60% and Thirteen was 70%.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kickass69*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22641289
> 
> 
> I'm only 7.5 miles from Randolph as the crow flies at higher elevation than you at 1,050 feet above sea level. I'm 36.5 miles as the crow flies miles from the Empire State Building while Randolph is roughly 32 miles from the ESB. Not much difference I'd say. My reception before with ABC 7 was at 80%, PIX 11 was 60% and Thirteen was 70%.



What antenna are you using? Did you check the VHF elements? I had to get a dedicated VHF antenna to allow me to get the VHF stations 80% and better. But I am on the side of a hill facing away from the transmitters. My VHF signal reception has not changed since the storm.


----------



## kickass69

I have checked my VHF elements on my Channel Master CM-4228HD and nothing is broken or bent out of shape. In my case I'm on top of a hill surrounding the lake with a clear shot northeast to southwest.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

A CM4228HD doesn't have any VHF elements since it's a UHF design..


----------



## kickass69

 http://www.channelmaster.com/EXTREMEtenna_CM_4228HD_s/43.htm 


60 mile UHF digital and HD reception range
*45 mile high VHF digital and HD reception range*


Perhaps I need to lower it or move it to a different spot


----------



## ProjectSHO89

It's a UHF design that just happens to receive some high-VHF. It has no elements exclusively for VHF. If you don't believe me, contact ChannelMaster ans ask them to identify the VHF-exclusive elements.


----------



## LenL

I also have a CM4228 (not the HD model) and that is a marginal VHF antenna and is primarily for UHF as was mentioned. Also to get VHF reception the higher the antenna is mounted the better. Not so for UHF.


I suplemented my CM4228 with a dedicated VHF antenna mounted on the mast just above it and it did wonders for VHF reception. Specifically the Antenna Craft model Y5-7-13 VHF Yagi. Not too big compared to other VHF antennas. It is light but well made and sturdy.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16320#post_22641104
> 
> 
> Not sure what antenna you are using but if it has VHF elements they could have been damaged as you lost your VHF reception. Something for you to look into.


I will have to check on this maybe something internal?


----------



## NYC10033

Does 5-1 still exist? All I get is 5-2. I've rescanned and 5-1 doesn't show up. This started several weeks ago.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22649400
> 
> 
> Does 5-1 still exist? All I get is 5-2. I've rescanned and 5-1 doesn't show up. This started several weeks ago.



Yes it still exist and it's coming in great for me. 5.1 and 9.2 is rf channel 44. 5.2 and 9.1 is rf 38. You should say that you are not getting rf 44, that's why you don't see it in your scan. Many factors can cause this on your end that you need to check. Antenna position, atmosphere, buildings etc. Also conceivable that WNYW did something and you are at a location that's causing this.


----------



## NYC10033

Thanks for your reply!


I'll check things out on my side again.


When I do a scan with my Zenith box, 5-1 does not show up, even as a weak signal.


BTW, wouldn't 5-2 be broadcast from the same antenna as 5-1?????????


----------



## SnellKrell

No, 5.2 uses WWOR's antenna on the ESB, and 9.2 uses WNYW's.


----------



## Dave Loudin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22650212
> 
> 
> .BTW, wouldn't 5-2 be broadcast from the same antenna as 5-1?????????



The "5.1" and "5.2" are simply labels used by your tuner to arrange the channels like they were in the analog days. With that in mind, go back to Aero 1's reply. What is 5.1 is is actually broadcast on channel 44 with 9.2 while 5.2 is broadcast on channel 38 with 9.1. Do you receive 9.2?


----------



## 007james




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22649400
> 
> 
> Does 5-1 still exist? All I get is 5-2. I've rescanned and 5-1 doesn't show up. This started several weeks ago.



FOX-HD does not work for me either. I try 5-1, 44, i run the auto-program and still no FOX-HD


----------



## 007james




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *007james*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22658094
> 
> 
> FOX-HD does not work for me either. I try 5-1, 44, i run the auto-program and still no FOX-HD



Wow, what a difference 30 degrees can make , I now get fox in HD 720p 5-1. Next week i can watch Sanchez throw interceptions in High definition..........


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22649913
> 
> 
> ...Many factors can cause this on your end that you need to check. Antenna position, atmosphere, buildings etc. Also conceivable that WNYW did something and you are at a location that's causing this.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *007james*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22658173
> 
> 
> Wow, what a difference 30 degrees can make , I now get fox in HD 720p 5-1. Next week i can watch Sanchez throw interceptions in High definition..........



I haven't tried to get MY9 since summer because I only use it for Yankee games on there. But tonight the Giants game is on MY9, so I moved my antenna to my "2nd location" (which I use only for MY9) and I got nuthin'. So I fiddled around and it now turns out that my primary antenna location now works (again) for MY9.


Gotta have something to do with construction progress on 1-WTC? That seemed to be the cause of my loss of MY9 at my primary location back in May.


Reception now is at a very solid 85%, which is excellent reception with no issues for me.


BTW, double oh, you might not _ever_ see Sanchez again


----------



## LenL

Just announced a new development to the west of the ESB with a new tower higher than the ESB. Looks like potential for reception issues for those of us to the west of the ESB if the transmitters stay at the ESB.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/real-estate/officials-developers-break-ground-15b-hudson-yards-article-1.1212797


----------



## SubaruB4

As you know I lost CBS and NBC a few months ago and I have my window open at the moment.. I just did a auto scan but I still can't pick up CBS nor NBC.. but I can pick up 5,9 kinda stumped since nothing changed.


Disconnected the lead from the antenna I lost a good deal one of the Spanish stations and 11 as well.. so if those channels work then I should still be able to get 2-1 and 4-1?


Did they move around on the ESB? I haven't followed this thread much in the past 5 months.


----------



## 007james




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22658533
> 
> 
> I haven't tried to get MY9 since summer because I only use it for Yankee games on there. But tonight the Giants game is on MY9, so I moved my antenna to my "2nd location" (which I use only for MY9) and I got nuthin'. So I fiddled around and it now turns out that my primary antenna location now works (again) for MY9.
> 
> Gotta have something to do with construction progress on 1-WTC? That seemed to be the cause of my loss of MY9 at my primary location back in May.
> 
> 
> Reception now is at a very solid 85%, which is excellent reception with no issues for me.
> 
> BTW, double oh, you might not _ever_ see Sanchez again



Sadly, looks like we will get to see Sanchez throw interceptions in HD again, at least FOX-HD is still working for me. The direction is very sensitive. I wonder if I would be better off with omnidirectional....


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *007james*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22671702
> 
> 
> Sadly, looks like we will get to see Sanchez throw interceptions in HD again, at least FOX-HD is still working for me. The direction is very sensitive. I wonder if I would be better off with omnidirectional....



Just an FYI, the Jets are usually on CBS as is the case this coming Sunday so check your WCBS-TV signal now if you want to see those INTs.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22671608
> 
> 
> As you know I lost CBS and NBC a few months ago and I have my window open at the moment.. I just did a auto scan but I still can't pick up CBS nor NBC.. but I can pick up 5,9 kinda stumped since nothing changed.
> 
> Disconnected the lead from the antenna I lost a good deal one of the Spanish stations and 11 as well.. so if those channels work then I should still be able to get 2-1 and 4-1?
> 
> Did they move around on the ESB? I haven't followed this thread much in the past 5 months.



At the moment I can only report that I am happy with reception on all my channels. I do have a number of antennas but they are all receiving fine . In the past I have had issues with CBS and NBC but so far so good.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22673449
> 
> 
> At the moment I can only report that I am happy with reception on all my channels. I do have a number of antennas but they are all receiving fine . In the past I have had issues with CBS and NBC but so far so good.


To make matters worst my samsung tv I can't tune to 2-1 or 4-1 and look at a signal meter because it auto removes channels that I can't get any longer if I key in say 2-1 it will just go to the next station that I can get which will be 5-1.


Now if I just do 4 it brings up a snowy picture but I don't know but still I can't look at the signal if 4 is a OTA for meaning 4-1


In the past if I can get those other channels I could be sure to get 2-1 which I never had a picture break up on other then changing the antenna or the coax or both


----------



## SubaruB4

Hmm I bet this has something to do with it. can't really complain 3 years outside for a indoor antenna, 2 hurricane force winds and 3 summer's worth of heavy rain.. I will be replacing it with something else but not sure yet.. I need something high gain but not super wide like I've seen.. I can repair this one one for the time being after I pull up that rusted metal and lay down some alum. flashing.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22678641
> 
> 
> Hmm I bet this has something to do with it. can't really complain 3 years outside for a indoor antenna, 2 hurricane force winds and 3 summer's worth of heavy rain.. I will be replacing it with something else but not sure yet.. I need something high gain but not super wide like I've seen.. I can repair this one one for the time being after I pull up that rusted metal and lay down some alum. flashing.



you've been wondering why you cant get some channels from a state away, ask if the networks moved things around at the empire state building and then you come out and say you've been using a small $15 indoor rusted antenna? ok, this made me laugh.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22678666
> 
> 
> you've been wondering why you cant get some channels from a state away, ask if the networks moved things around at the empire state building and then you come out and say you've been using a small $15 indoor rusted antenna? ok, this made me laugh.



some helpful reply that was... what you wont say is in your reply was "I'am shocked you were still able to get the other UHF stations without a issue"


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22678680
> 
> 
> some helpful reply that was... what you wont say is in your reply was "I'am shocked you were still able to get the other UHF stations without a issue"



you were asking for help, Len was troubleshooting for you, it would of been helpful to him, or anyone else to know what you were using at first. if you would of said from the start that you were using Silver Sensor outside, it would of been more helpful. my reply to you couldnt of been helpful to you because you weren't asking for help on the post i quoted. i simply found it funny. i am not shocked at what you were getting because you can probably get the same by using a coat hanger.


here is my two cents, use an outdoor antenna. antennas direct db4 or db2 which is smaller than the 4. here is my db4 joined with a cs5


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22678680
> 
> 
> some helpful reply that was... what you wont say is in your reply was "I'am shocked you were still able to get the other UHF stations without a issue"



OK...I will say it....."I'am shocked you were still able to get the other UHF stations without a issue"! If you just get yourself a decent outdoor antenna your Samsung TV will bring you many hours of enjoyment! If you want both UHF and VHF I would get two antennas. One for each band.


----------



## SubaruB4

Being in a apartment the roof top is VHF so that's no issue. The issue is going to be the UHF antenna and mounting it because of how the window screens are..


I think I know how I can do it.. it involves a longer satellite dish mount pole and mounting on the side of the window A/C the antenna will or should just clear the screen if I have it right.. it's going to look crude.. On the upside I gain a few feet. also I can't say for sure if a higher gain antenna will help since I'm in a low valley but I point my antenna at the tree tops, I guess this is where I would say I wished I lived on the 3rd floor :-/


My channels are back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIObIXpAznc&list=UUxgfF8xylsAZexesaXsdCQQ&index=1


----------



## nyctveng

Glad u got ur channels back but other posters are right. Your asking if the networks moved their million dollar antennas because your $10 antenna suddenly couldn't pick it up is like people installing coax from the 99 cent store then complaining to the cable company that their reception is bad.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22679141
> 
> 
> Being in a apartment the roof top is VHF so that's no issue. The issue is going to be the UHF antenna and mounting it because of how the window screens are..
> 
> I think I know how I can do it.. it involves a longer satellite dish mount pole and mounting on the side of the window A/C the antenna will or should just clear the screen if I have it right.. it's going to look crude.. On the upside I gain a few feet. also I can't say for sure if a higher gain antenna will help since I'm in a low valley but I point my antenna at the tree tops, I guess this is where I would say I wished I lived on the 3rd floor :-/
> 
> My channels are back!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIObIXpAznc&list=UUxgfF8xylsAZexesaXsdCQQ&index=1


----------



## Aero 1

it was mentioned here a couple of months ago about NBC's new sub channel that will start in the new year. I havent heard any news of it since then so i did a search and come up with the following:


Cozi TV, looks like a mix of classic shows and the current nbc non stop stuff

http://www.cozitv.com/ 

 


Press Release: http://www.nbcuni.com/corporate/newsroom/nbc-owned-stations-deliver-exciting-viewing-experience-with-cozi-tv/ 

http://www.nbcudirect.com/cozi-tv-102412/ 


> Quote:
> COZI TV COMING TO LOCAL STATIONS IN EARLY 2013
> 
> October 24, 2012 by Amanda Massa3
> 
> COZI TV, a new television network designed to provide easy-to-watch and comfortable programming, will launch early next year on the digital channels of the 10 NBC-owned stations and is available to other stations across the country. The network will show hit movies, iconic television series, like Charlie’s Angels and Magnum, P.I., and original programming.
> 
> 
> The COZI TV format also gives stations the opportunity to feature local programming, such as news, sports and special events. We sat down with Meredith McGinn, Vice President of Multi-Station Local Programming for NBC Owned Television Stations, to get a look at what we can expect to see with the launch of COZI TV.


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programs_broadcast_by_Cozi_TV 


> Quote:
> List of programs broadcast by Cozi TV
> 
> 
> The Burns and Allen Show
> 
> The Lucy Show
> 
> The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet
> 
> The Red Skelton Show
> 
> You Bet Your Life
> 
> Charlie's Angels[2]
> 
> The Six Million Dollar Man[2]
> 
> The Bionic Woman[2]
> 
> Magnum, P.I.[2]
> 
> Lassie
> 
> The Roy Rogers Show
> 
> The Lone Ranger[2]
> 
> The Virginian
> 
> The Adventures of Kit Carson
> 
> Alias Smith and Jones
> 
> Marcus Welby, M.D.
> 
> Highway to Heaven[2]


----------



## dm145

will it replace non stop


----------



## NYCGirl

Hello!










Sorry for barging into your convo. Hope this is allowed here because I do not know where else to post this.












I am wodering if I can get help with an HDTV antenna...


I live on the 4th floor of an apartment buildling in the UES, my zip code is 10021 to be specific, and am wondering if I can receive ABC (VHF) using the Winegard FlatWave FL-5000 UHF/VHF antenna .


I had this Terk UHF/VHF antenna a while back but ended up tossing it because I did not like the way it looked and could not pick up ABC for some strange reason.



If the Winegard above is not good, I'd really appreciate some suggestions. Money's not an issue here. It just has to work and aesthetically acceptable, and oh indoor as I don't own the rooftop of my building.


I would like something cute like the ClearStream™ Micron R Indoor Digital TV Antenna - Color Series . But.... it doesn't seem to tune into VHF stataions.



I live in 3 miles of all channels that I would like to get (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, My Network TV, PBS). But multipath tends to be an issue like I can know that planes from LaGuardia or helicoptors are going to pass near me just by watching my TV screen before I can actually hear them.


I don't know if this matters, but I would like an antenna so that I can record some TV shows on my PC laptoppy and store them permanently. Ideally, I would like clean recordings. Or that may be too much to ask?







I already have cable service for watching and temporarily DVRing.



Thank you, and have a wonderful day!


----------



## ProjectSHO89

nycgirl,


Try the Flatwave or Solid Signal's equivalent version of it they call the Blade. They're the same antenna and they do a "fair" job on VHF compared to the other flat antennas which I'd rate as "miserable" on VHF.


----------



## ALP

Bloomberg has been trying to figure out how to unload that rail yard for at least a decade if not longer.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22693299
> 
> 
> Bloomberg has been trying to figure out how to unload that rail yard for at least a decade if not longer.



Develop the area above and around the rail yard, not unload it.


----------



## NYCGirl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16350#post_22693135
> 
> 
> nycgirl,
> 
> Try the Flatwave or Solid Signal's equivalent version of it they call the Blade. They're the same antenna and they do a "fair" job on VHF compared to the other flat antennas which I'd rate as "miserable" on VHF.



Thank you, ProjectSHO89!










For instance this?

Solid Signal HD-BLADE Indoor Digital Flat Indoor TV Antenna With 12 Foot Razor Mini Coax


----------



## Aero 1

WNBC is now running spots for Cozi TV and announcing channel numbers for Fios, Cablevision, Dish, etc, but not for OTA.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22713563
> 
> 
> WNBC is now running spots for Cozi TV and announcing channel numbers for Fios, Cablevision, Dish, etc, but not for OTA.


probably because it will stay on the same channel number for OTA and also a majority of viewers are on cable. i'm surprised it's carried on Dish.


----------



## Aero 1

looks like cozy tv is starting this Thursday at 6 am on 4.2 with the Adventures of Ozzi and Harriet. http://www.cozitv.com/tv-listings/ 


their site has been updated significantly also.


----------



## frank70

Is WCBS still transmitting digital TVGOS data OTA? It died (presumably for good) here in Philly (KYW, CBS-3) sometime on Friday.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank70*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22715102
> 
> 
> Is WCBS still transmitting digital TVGOS data OTA? It died (presumably for good) here in Philly (KYW, CBS-3) sometime on Friday.



As of last nite we still had it. It will be gone any day now.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22714950
> 
> 
> looks like cozy tv is starting this Thursday at 6 am on 4.2 with the Adventures of Ozzi and Harriet. http://www.cozitv.com/tv-listings/
> 
> their site has been updated significantly also.



what is the obsession with retro tv shows?

absolute waste of time and space IMO


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22731318
> 
> 
> what is the obsession with retro tv shows?
> 
> absolute waste of time and space IMO



relax big guy. who says i am obsessed? just providing news that pertains to this thread. its a waste of your time, it might not be to others.


lets see, what are you contributing?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22731318
> 
> 
> what is the obsession with retro tv shows?
> 
> absolute waste of time and space IMO


There is a niche audience for this type of programming and the content is super cheap versus the cost of original programming by the Non Stop format that the NBC O&Os did around the country. Another cost cutting move from the not so new owners, Comcast.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22731318
> 
> 
> what is the obsession with retro tv shows?
> 
> absolute waste of time and space IMO



Agree. If there is NO audiance they will pull it. I can't see this lasting very long. The PQ is terrible too. If they want to gain OTA audiance they would take some of their cable TV stations and air them like MSNBC.


----------



## RF Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22731318
> 
> 
> what is the obsession with retro tv shows?
> 
> absolute waste of time and space IMO



I'm a fan of these older shows. I wish they showed more 50's and early 60's shows. I hope that one day CBS puts up a channel to show The Millionare. You can't even buy this series legaly on DVD. I'm 56 and am a fan of this stuff. As long as they're runnig these show's I'll be watching.


----------



## RF Burns




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22731318
> 
> 
> what is the obsession with retro tv shows?
> 
> absolute waste of time and space IMO



I'm a fan of these older shows. I wish they showed more 50's and early 60's shows. I hope that one day CBS puts up a channel to show The Millionare. You can't even buy this series legaly on DVD. I'm 56 and am a fan of this stuff. As long as they're runnig these show's I'll be watching.


----------



## nyctveng

sure putting msnbc on a subchannel would gain audience but they will will revenue from the per subscriber fee that cable and satellite carriage brings...do you not know how the cable model works?


Picture quality sucks because its old stuff. the audience for vintage shows cant be demanding HD quality for something shot 30 years ago.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22732027
> 
> 
> Agree. If there is NO audiance they will pull it. I can't see this lasting very long. The PQ is terrible too. If they want to gain OTA audiance they would take some of their cable TV stations and air them like MSNBC.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22731477
> 
> 
> relax big guy. who says i am obsessed? just providing news that pertains to this thread. its a waste of your time, it might not be to others.
> 
> lets see, what are you contributing?



wasn't attacking your news just the fact that the programming is crap

sub channels rob the main channel of bandwidth and as a result pq

I have an HDTV to view HD not SD with low bit rates


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22733072
> 
> 
> sure putting msnbc on a subchannel would gain audience but they will will revenue from the per subscriber fee that cable and satellite carriage brings...do you not know how the cable model works?
> 
> Picture quality sucks because its old stuff. the audience for vintage shows cant be demanding HD quality for something shot 30 years ago.



NYC they aren't going to lose any fees by going OTA with MSNBC. The only way they would lose fees is if people cancelled CABLE BECAUSE MSNBC is now OTA. That ain't going to happen. People on cable have lots of reasons for NOT going OTA.....


Secondly good points about PQ which I knew. However you would think that they would at least realize that people have HD TVs these days and if we are going to watch poor quality PQ then at least try to spruce it up a bit. There is technology to do that. We are in the digital age aren't we?


Third compared to the other retro shows being broadcast on PIX and also BOUNCE the PQ is worse. They found a way at COZI/COMCAST to degrade the picture in my opinion.


Anyway if there is an audiance it will prosper.....my opinion it will be gone within the year.


----------



## nyctveng

.Comcast cable gets revenue from subscription fees. MSNBC gets dual revenue stream from 80 million homes plus advertising. If MSNBC were to be put on a sub channel it sets a precedent of cable channels being free on OTA. Customers may drop cable therefore MSNBC (and all of it's sister stations) loses the subscription fees and Comcast starts losing cable customers so double wammy. Same reason ABC won't put ESPN on a sub channel because they make $4 per sub per month whether it is being watched or not. Whether you understand the cable tv business model or not; agree with me or not, you will never see "cable" channels on OTA.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22734391
> 
> 
> NYC they aren't going to lose any fees by going OTA with MSNBC.  The only way they would lose fees is if people cancelled CABLE BECAUSE MSNBC is now OTA.  That ain't going to happen.  People on cable have lots of reasons for NOT going OTA.....
> 
> Secondly good points about PQ which I knew.  However you would think that they would at least realize that people have HD TVs these days and if we are going to watch poor quality PQ then at least try to spruce it up a bit.  There is technology to do that.  We are in the digital age aren't we?
> 
> Third compared to the other retro shows being broadcast on PIX and also BOUNCE the PQ is worse.  They found a way at COZI/COMCAST to degrade the picture in my opinion.
> 
> Anyway if there is an audiance it will prosper.....my opinion it will be gone within the year.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22714950
> 
> 
> looks like cozy tv is starting this Thursday at 6 am on 4.2 with the Adventures of Ozzi and Harriet. http://www.cozitv.com/tv-listings/
> 
> their site has been updated significantly also.


I went through the week. When is the NON STOP SHOWS like talk Stoop going to air? I thought the new nonstop would share the channel now? That is what I read anyway. Does not seem to be the case.


I agree the last thing OTA needed was another oldie channel. When I thought it would be a 50/50 share station with the new Nonstop stuff. I was ok with it. Now that it is just a copy of Antenna tv. Which copied me and this tv. Seems silly. I was hoping Cozi would of had its own sub channel. Separate from nonstop


----------



## LenL

Keyboard,


I agree with you. I liked NON-stop better and I did watch some of the programming but it seems there are people on this forum who like COSI TV so time will tell.


----------



## LenL

NYC,


The precedent has already been set as all of the OTA we watch for for the most part is on Cable and fees are paid. If you mean a cable only show all of a sudden being also OTA well hasn't that precedent been set when cable only shows went to satellite? Sure there was a payment but the stations struck their own deal with other providers.


Cable is paying very little money for lots of programmming and there may be situations where cable programming will go OTA too as the money they are getting from the cable or satellite industry is not enough to make an issue out of it. As you know locally we have had lots of stations fight over fees from cable. Most recently PIX 11. Cable operators are squeezing the stations. ESPN and sports channels are getting lots of money from Cable and Sateilite operators while other stations are being squeezed.


The current model is changing and while you say it will never happen it just may happen.


----------



## KEVINL71

Wait...isn't WCBS-TV using channel 33 for their digital now? Why would they switch?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22736978
> 
> 
> Keyboard,
> 
> I agree with you. I liked NON-stop better and I did watch some of the programming but it seems there are people on this forum who like COSI TV so time will tell.


I read that they were supposed to mix NON stop shows. I did a guide search and found not one NONstop show going a week out. It seems a clone of Antenna tv. Is there a difference between the two? Same era right?


----------



## nyctveng

Cable is paying a lot of money for a lot of good and a lot of sh*tty programming. PIX11 was seeking retransmission consent fees similar to what the other locals was able to successfully get. Also their parent company Tribune is/was emerging from bankruptcy. They need the dual revenue stream (subscriber fees and ad revenue) that cable networks have enjoyed for years.


Most recently Time Warner has programmers such as Ovation on notice that their channel is being dropped due to low quality and ratings. It will be networks like those that may appear on OTA sub channels if at all. OTA and their subchannels have been launch pads for cable/satellite channels such as Universal Sports and HSN though the latter remains on both. Troubled networks looking to expand their audience will go online before OTA. Fully distributed and established networks like MSNBC won't go sub channels in the foreseeable future.


all.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22736996
> 
> 
> NYC,
> 
> The precedent has already been set as all of the OTA we watch for for the most part is on Cable and fees are paid. If you mean a cable only show all of a sudden being also OTA well hasn't that precedent been set when cable only shows went to satellite? Sure there was a payment but the stations struck their own deal with other providers.
> 
> Cable is paying very little money for lots of programmming and there may be situations where cable programming will go OTA too as the money they are getting from the cable or satellite industry is not enough to make an issue out of it. As you know locally we have had lots of stations fight over fees from cable. Most recently PIX 11. Cable operators are squeezing the stations. ESPN and sports channels are getting lots of money from Cable and Sateilite operators while other stations are being squeezed.
> 
> The current model is changing and while you say it will never happen it just may happen.


----------



## icemannyr

The official launch of Cozi is Tuesday. Checking the listings for 4.2 it appears the only shows staying are First Look, Talk Stoop and News 4 at 7pm.


WLNY HD was recently added to FiOS in NJ and I'm amazed how much better the PQ is vs WCBS-DT on FiOS and OTA.

I'm guessing the WLNY feed to FiOS is direct via fiber and has no sub channels?


----------



## dm145

correct, no sub channels


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*NEW YORK CITY TV GETTING COOL IN 2013*


As if the New York City TV dial isn't already cool enough, it is poised to get even more so in the coming year... which, by the way, begins in less than 24 hours










According to its New Markets Coming Soon website , *TheCoolTV* will finally be entering the New York City TV market sometime in 2013. It will also be launching its programming into neighboring TV market #7, Philadelphia, PA., as well as TV market #3, Chicago, Illinois. Additionally, eleven other markets will welcome in this rhythmic U.S. digital subchannel.

*TheCoolTV* promotes itself as "A music channel that plays music, Period". It is a 24/7/365 U.S. digital subchannel that is programmed primarily with music videos, genre-specialty shows, and interactive request programs. It is also unique in that it is a subchannel which shares broadcast TV bandwidth with nearly every major network affiliate broadcaster, including ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, and others throughout the United States.


There is no official word yet on _HOW_ *TheCoolTV* will enter the NYC market, but if OTA terrestrial TV broadcasting is the chosen vehicle, there are a few models on the showroom floor from which to choose.


The most likely option is WKOB-LD New York, Channel 2. With six standard-definition streams available to deliver content, this low-power TV signal offers content providers an affordable option to enter market #1. All but one of the streams are presently occupied; the primary stream (Virtual Channel 42-1 labeled "WKOB-LD") is currently vacant with an EBR Test Pattern sans audio. The station recently added *Punch TV* to its lineup on virtual channel 42-3. And since *TheCoolTV* presently airs over KTAV-LD Altadena, CA. virtual channel 35-2, it is worth noting that the channel lineup on the Almavision-owned low-power TV station is very similar to that of Nave Broadcasting's WKOB-LD in New York.


Another low-power option would be WNYN-LD New York, Channel 39. With four SD streams presently transmitting, this former nine SD stream HSN affiliate has some room for new content considering that it's main stream is the Tele-Romantica channel (TRC), billed as the first Spanish Language Digital Television Network focused on the Latino Woman, In the United States and Puerto Rico... and this programming is duplicated on its .3 subchannel. Additionally, it's .2 and .4 subchannels are currently home to the most popular programming selected by TV broadcasters in the U.S.: Infomercials.


Of course, the low-power route does not offer content providers a quick inexpensive entry to millions of homes which rely exclusively on cable, telco, and/or satellite for pay TV service.


To chart that course, a network must reach deeper into their pockets and choose from one of the higher-end models on the showroom floor - a full-power TV station - and in the New York City market, those models are very limited and very pricey. But in an economic environment where broadcasters find themselves scrambling harder than ever before to earn every dollar available, networks such as *TheCoolTV* may find themselves in a more advantageous position to get behind the wheel than at any other time in recent history.


WLNY-TV Riverhead, Channel 47, was recently acquired by CBS, Inc. A station that was upgraded by its new owners to High-Definition, it presently is being treated as the network's bastard stepchild for overflow CBS network programming when Big Brother TV station WCBS-TV New York is airing emergency news programming. The former Long Island-centric station is also home to typical syndicated fare, legal holiday day-long classic TV sitcom marathons, and a Christmastime airing of a Yule Log burning in an undisclosed location with music playing from co-owned adult-contemporary WWFS New York at 102.7FM.


The station is unique in that its OTA signal currently has NO subchannels. HD purists will cringe at this thought, but CBS executives might think fondly of a way to generate revenue off this unadulterated 6 MHz TV station. The huge benefit for such an arrangement is that WLNY-TV currently enjoys must-carry status on all the major cable, telco, and satellite TV providers. Certainly, additional bandwidth from those providers could be renegotiated, securing a significantly larger audience for any .2s that should jump onto the WLNY-TV coattails.


WPIX New York, Channel 11, is owned by its parent company Tribune, the Chicago-based corporation emerging from bankruptcy. When not getting it's ass kicked by Cablevision and getting into ugly disputes with other pay TV providers that result in their channels being pulled from view for months at a time, this primary channel along with classic TV centric *Antenna TV*, seen on OTA channel 11-2, is carried on every major cable, telco, and satellite TV provider in the NYC metro area. The OTA signal also is the New York home to *this-tv*, channel 11-3, carried on fewer of the pay TV systems. Channel 11 once before saw four streams on its broadcast signal when Tribune was compensated to carry *Estrella TV*. WPIX's first ever .2 subchannel appeared on pre-transition channel 33, and was, in fact, a music channel known as The Tube. Like its owners, Tube went bankrupt. Unlike its owners, Tube also went belly-up.


Carriage over WPIX New York, Channel 11, would ensure a huge NYC area audience whether the signal is relayed through MVPDs or not. But for certain, this arrangement is a costly one. Substantive returns would have to be a near guarantee.


Other less likely options include WPXN-TV New York, WNYW New York, and even WNBC New York, owned by revenue-seeking parent company Comcast/NBCUniversal, a company that enjoys broadcasting *Cozi* cost-effective public-domain programming with peculiar aspect-ratios.


Unlikely stations include TV broadcasters exclusively airing ethnic and religious programming.


Where and when will *TheCoolTV* arrive? Stay tuned!


Happy New Year 2013!









_© 2012 Giacomo Siffredi. All rights reserved._


----------



## KEVINL71

I thought Philadelphia/Wilmington was the nation's _fourth_ largest TV market?


As for TheCool TV, we get it here in greater Hartford on WCTX-TV 59-2 of New Haven.


----------



## kevin120




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KEVINL71*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22766477
> 
> 
> I thought Philadelphia/Wilmington was the nation's _fourth_ largest TV market?
> 
> As for TheCool TV, we get it here in greater Hartford on WCTX-TV 59-2 of New Haven.



It is and Dallas-Fort Worth is #5 and so on!


----------



## Trip in VA

Almost certainly on WKOB-LD, since Mako has picked it up in a number of markets now.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16380#post_22766736
> 
> 
> Almost certainly on WKOB-LD, since Mako has picked it up in a number of markets now.
> 
> - Trip


Great another channel I can not receive. They promised to up the power years ago. Never happened. How many people can actually receive channel 42?


----------



## Greg2600

WKOB is indeed a waste, hardly anyone can get that station.


As for subchannels, I'd expect they actually garner ratings. Also, they are cheap for the stations. Remember, there's a ton of people now, mainly seniors, who have digital receivers, no cable, only. So they like those old shows and movies. I have FIOS, and I still watch ThisTV a lot, they have many movies you never see otherwise.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22772372
> 
> 
> WKOB is indeed a waste, hardly anyone can get that station.
> 
> As for subchannels, I'd expect they actually garner ratings. Also, they are cheap for the stations. Remember, there's a ton of people now, mainly seniors, who have digital receivers, no cable, only. So they like those old shows and movies. I have FIOS, and I still watch ThisTV a lot, they have many movies you never see otherwise.



Is there a station that shows THIS TV or ME TV? If so name and channel number pls


I thought it was WKOB. Nope it is RTV.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22779092
> 
> 
> Is there a station that shows THIS TV or ME TV? If so name and channel number pls
> 
> I thought it was WKOB. Nope it is RTV.



MeTV? I don't think so... Well at least, unless you are in a fringe area, as I think there is a CT affilliate that can be picked up in some locations in the NY Metro Area...


ThisTV is on WPIX-DT3... 11.3

fyi, AntenntaTV is on WPIX-DT2... 11.2


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22779174
> 
> 
> MeTV? I don't think so... Well at least, unless you are in a fringe area, as I think there is a CT affilliate that can be picked up in some locations in the NY Metro Area...
> 
> ThisTV is on WPIX-DT3... 11.3
> 
> fyi, AntenntaTV is on WPIX-DT2... 11.2
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug


Thanks


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22779092
> 
> 
> Is there a station that shows THIS TV or ME TV? If so name and channel number pls
> 
> I thought it was WKOB. Nope it is RTV.


This TV is available over broadcast WPIX-DT3 New York, which is carried by FiOS.


MeTV is available on a limited schedule over WZME Bridgeport, channel 42/virtual channel 43-1, which is carried by some pay TV providers. There is also a direct 24/7/365 feed via the Time Warner Cable system in New York City.


WKOB-LD New York is no longer broadcasting RTV, and hasn't been for well over a year. It is, however, carried over WZME, virtual channel 43-2.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22780008
> 
> 
> This TV is available over broadcast WPIX-DT3 New York, which is carried by FiOS.
> 
> MeTV is available on a limited schedule over WZME Bridgeport, channel 42/virtual channel 43-1, which is carried by some pay TV providers. There is also a direct 24/7/365 feed via the Time Warner Cable system in New York City.
> 
> WKOB-LD New York is no longer broadcasting RTV, and hasn't been for well over a year. It is, however, carried over WZME, virtual channel 43-2.



Got it and ty


----------



## fiddlerontheroof

I read somewhere that Soul of the South Network will debut on 1/21/13 on a tv station in SC. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, will it be available in the NYC market?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fiddlerontheroof*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22786999
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that Soul of the South Network will debut on 1/21/13 on a tv station in SC. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, will it be available in the NYC market?


"Soul of the south" would hardly have mass appeal in this market even if its something you may personally want.


----------



## keyboard21

Do you like Cozi TV? Yes/No


----------



## Aero 1

got an alert last night on my Tivo's that new channels were added. ION added another subchannel, ShopTV 31.4


----------



## KEVINL71

WHPX-TV channel 26 of New London, CT added the same thing not too long ago. I think 26-4 is just a west coast feed of what's on 26-3 already (same for 31-3 and 31-4 for you).


----------



## Kascnef82

Quick question...which local station has the best audio and picture quality? CBS used to own it but NBC and Fox have the best. ABC is the worst.


----------



## SubaruB4

I'd say NBC.. when the local news comes on the set looks amazing in HD.. CBS used to be good but not so much anymore


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22820370
> 
> 
> got an alert last night on my Tivo's that new channels were added. ION added another subchannel, ShopTV 31.4



According to their website it is just infomercials.


----------



## ejb1980




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22825439
> 
> 
> According to their website it is just infomercials.



It is not, though. It is a mix of Ion shows.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ejb1980*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22825589
> 
> 
> It is not, though. It is a mix of Ion shows.



Oh Ok thanks. I believe this is their website

http://shoptv.com/ 


Looks like you are right according to Titantv


Maybe it is a different company website then the TV channel.


----------



## AloEuro

Last week ch.42 was most of the time off the air, on my TV, but when it runs 42-3 or4 added PUNCH TV, the 42-3 Punch TV may be mixed bag, I saw there muslim school from Africa, there women were boasting about end of slavery in 1980 somewhere in Africa, couldn't be Mauritania since they had it much longer


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22766945
> 
> 
> Great another channel I can not receive. They promised to up the power years ago. Never happened. How many people can actually receive channel 42?


42-1 Color bars,nothing else

42-2 Daystar christian broadcast

43-3 Punch TV ,shows in color and b&w, educational etc

43-4 WizeBuy HTV shopping ch. informmecials

42-5 SunBroadcating Corp. Jimmy Swaggart

42-6 AlmaVis chriatian probably Spanish, off the air

All 6 streams are 704x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo, English except AlmaVission, I think when 42-5 and 42-3 have money then it runs, last week maybe one day it ran, otherwise it is off the air, this week for couple days it was running, the reason you may not get it is that it is off the air


----------



## RF Burns

 http://www.filmon.com/channel/punch-tv#Punch-TV 


Punch TV also streams


----------



## keyboard21

Looks like TVGOS is now discontinued from NYC


Anyone missing TVGUIDE logo and 7 day programing?


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22869906
> 
> 
> Looks like TVGOS is now discontinued from NYC
> 
> 
> Anyone missing TVGUIDE logo and 7 day programing?



What do most OTA folks do for TV program information?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22869906
> 
> 
> Looks like TVGOS is now discontinued from NYC
> 
> 
> Anyone missing TVGUIDE logo and 7 day programing?



its safe to say that if ended for you, it ended for everyone. it looks like you constant lobbying didn't work as predicted.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22871051
> 
> 
> What do most OTA folks do for TV program information?



the internet. in my specific case, my tivos get guide info from the internet and for tv's without a tivo, i use the TV Guide app or the Tivo app on my phone.


----------



## ALP

Does Tivos still work off of the phone line? Is there any reason to use the internet instead of the phone line?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22872353
> 
> 
> Does Tivos still work off of the phone line? Is there any reason to use the internet instead of the phone line?



The older, discontinued Tivo series 3 and HD have a built in phone modem, but the current Premiere hardware does not, you have to purchase their optional phone adapter: http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-accessories/dvr-networking/index.html#A00903 


if you already have internet service, why would you want to use a phone line? specifically for tivo, its fully functional when connected to the internet. without it, you cant use the HD menus (premiere series only), you cant transfer or stream recordings to other tivos on your network or to your computer, you cant transfer video files or pictures to the tivo from your computer using the Tivo Desktop software , you cant use the iOS or android companion app , you cant use netflix, hulu+, youtube, pandora, spotify etc, and you will lose the ability to do fast scheduling on the tivo.com website. You also wont be able to use the Tivo add-on called the Tivo Stream which allows you to watch live tv on your iphone or ipad in the home or transfer recordings to the device for viewing on the bus or what not.


if you use the phone option, you will be forces to use their older SD menus and lose the ability to all of the above. Guide data and software updates will be done in the middle of the night and take significantly longer.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22872120
> 
> 
> its safe to say that if ended for you, it ended for everyone. it looks like you constant lobbying didn't work as predicted.
> 
> the internet. in my specific case, my tivos get guide info from the internet and for tv's without a tivo, i use the TV Guide app or the Tivo app on my phone.



I give him credit for trying. He did not simply give up like a lot of people. We have to sometimes *****, whine etc to make the media and network folks notice us OTA users!


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22872553
> 
> 
> I give him credit for trying. He did not simply give up like a lot of people. We have to sometimes *****, whine etc to make the media and network folks notice us OTA users!


Thanks many just give up and take the easy route. Then attack people for trying while they sit and do nothing. What if you are elderly and do not have internet? Although PSIP is better then nothing. It is a downgrade. I will never again buy any product that has Rovi in it. That is a promise. The people that verbally attack on this board and others. Sit and do nothing. It is easy to be a Monday nite quarterback.


Just because you are outnumbered and do not have a reasonable chance of winning. Does not mean you should not fight.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22871051
> 
> 
> What do most OTA folks do for TV program information?


The box now uses PSIP 6 hours to a couple of days of guide info. Most of the guide says NO INFORMATION


If you do not have internet you are out of luck


----------



## LenL

Keyboard,


Not quite out of luck if you don't have internet. You still have the Sunday papers and some if not all provide a weekly program guide (Star Ledger for one) and also the TV Guide magazine is still available. You could buy TV guide every week or get a subscription.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22876964
> 
> 
> Keyboard,
> 
> 
> Not quite out of luck if you don't have internet. You still have the Sunday papers and some if not all provide a weekly program guide (Star Ledger for one) and also the TV Guide magazine is still available. You could buy TV guide every week or get a subscription.


Well I think she will not do that. She will use me to look it up on the internet. It is cheaper.


On a positive note. TVGOS disappeared a few days before I made a visit. So I was able to disable the dtvpal from looking for TVGOS. This helps with bugs. Also did a factory reset and scanned for all channels and found 75 channels! WOW. Ok given many are non English. So even deleting the ones she did not want. She still has 55 channels.


We all forget the analog days. She only got 13 channels and half had bad snow. Now 55 channels and all great quality.


----------



## jam-h

*Anyone else - Audio Stutter on OTA Ch. 31 on some tuners now 1-27-12 3 PM?*


Hi,


If anyone in NYC area is perusing this thread at the moment, just curious if I'm the only one.


Two Magnavox 515s (no new settings) right now have a severe audio stutter on Ch. 31.x only. But Zenith/Insignia DTV boxes are fine. All same antenna. Haven't had the chance yet to check the differences in audio settings among the devices. Maybe something in the ION signal changed?


Thanks.


Edit: Cleared up sometime before 8PM. OTA is fun...


----------



## AloEuro

Ch. 42-1 Cubana Television began broadcast, Spanish b&w sitcom or some kind of movie/show, some good color burlesque show alas Las Vegas


----------



## Kascnef82

When the new freedom tower antenna is active will it improve the broadcast networks


----------



## LenL

There are no plans that I know of to move the broadcasting from the Empire State building any time soon. If anyone has seen plans and dates please let us know on this forum. Otherwise there is only speculation.


Secondly there is NO way of knowing what impact it would have anyway. IT could be an improvement for some people and hurt other people depending on what they do if they moved.


----------



## Kascnef82

If the nfl comes back to abc that would suck. The hd feed of abc sucks.


----------



## dave73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_22914531
> 
> 
> If the nfl comes back to abc that would suck. The hd feed of abc sucks.



Where I work at, I wish it were on ABC, NBC, or Fox, since those networks are on UHF, & I can pick up those stations in my work place. Instead, it's on CBS, & in Chicago, CBS is on VHF, & my workplace can't pick up CBS at all


----------



## RF Burns

Do you have a VHF antenna? The major problem with VHF and HDTV is for those stations using channels 2-6. I've had no problem with NY stations 7, 11, 12 & 13 (all upper VHF) and I'm 25 miles north west of Manhattan, using an attic mounted antenna I am using a mast mounted pre-amp. My antenna is an older Radio Shack VHF/UHF, which isn't in the best shape.


----------



## Aero 1

interesting article with pictures on how Aereo send NYC OTA to subscribers over the net:


> Quote:
> *Inside Aereo: new photos of the tech that’s changing how we watch TV*
> 
> http://gigaom.com/2013/02/06/inside-aereo-new-photos-of-the-tech-thats-changing-how-we-watch-tv/



I've always wondered about this part:


> Quote:
> The ingenuity, Kanojia said, is that Aereo’s 1.5 inch antenna changes its electrical and magnetic characteristics in order to replicate the tasks of a standard 35 inch UFH and three foot VHF antennas.


----------



## RichNorthNJ

Way too many westerns on COZI, tho I tape Lassie & watch Banacek.

I don't know about other people, but I (city folk) have absolutely no interest AT ALL in westerns - NONE! lol

I still to this day can not figure why they reFUSE to rerun these shows:

the Danny Thomas show, Make Room for Granddady, MANNIX, Room 222, etc.


----------



## NYC10033

Westerns?


Give me _The Wild, Wild West_!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wild_Wild_West


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_22913884
> 
> 
> There are no plans that I know of to move the broadcasting from the Empire State building any time soon. If anyone has seen plans and dates please let us know on this forum. Otherwise there is only speculation.
> 
> 
> Secondly there is NO way of knowing what impact it would have anyway. IT could be an improvement for some people and hurt other people depending on what they do if they moved.



I think it would help me.. but most of the channels I can get now already but higher is better, in some crazy storms or a plane flying out of Westchester I can get break up due to mutipath.


----------



## GSfromCT

I know it doesn't mean much, but I could swear I recently had seen CPs for some channels at 1 WTC, at heights around 1700+ ft.

I believe it was WCBS (and definitely others) who had a construction permit.

I do not know how it works, but wouldn't a lease come before a CP?


----------



## SnellKrell

No, the lease can come after.


Various stations have filed with the FCC for a "possible" move to 1 WTC - power,

position on the mast, etc.



The paperwork has been done - but that doesn't mean that the move will take place.


----------



## LenL

I guess reception has been good for everyone as no one is complaining! I for one have had quite good reception. I expect that will change in a few months as the atmospherics change and the trees bloom.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_22968572
> 
> 
> No, the lease can come after.
> 
> 
> Various stations have filed with the FCC for a "possible" move to 1 WTC - power,
> 
> position on the mast, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> The paperwork has been done - but that doesn't mean that the move will take place.



I wonder if anyone know that the stations a) will be higher up if they go to the trade center, b) they will transmit with the same power or more power and not less, and c) they will send their signal in the same directions and not change the broadcast pattern or whatever it is called. Obviously moving 30 blocks or so south will change something with the signal all things being equal.


----------



## SnellKrell

Per usual, Trip at RabbitEars has all the answers to your questions!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16400_100#post_22970144
> 
> 
> Per usual, Trip at RabbitEars has all the answers to your questions!



My name has been invoked!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16400_100#post_22970121
> 
> 
> I wonder if anyone know that the stations a) will be higher up if they go to the trade center,



Yes, the highest station on ESB right now is at 1407' HAAT (WFUT), and the highest height applied for on 1WTC is at 1703' HAAT (WCBS/WNBC).


> Quote:
> b) they will transmit with the same power or more power and not less,



Less, due to the added height, but these filings were before the emergency power increases for VHF, so the applied for values would likely be increased for those stations.


> Quote:
> and c) they will send their signal in the same directions and not change the broadcast pattern or whatever it is called.



The stations that filed for 1WTC are:


WCBS

WNBC

WABC

WPIX

WNET

WPXN


Of those, WPIX and WPXN applied to be directional. WPIX is slightly directional, probably just on paper. WPXN is more so, primarily to protect WTIC and limit radiation toward the Atlantic Ocean.


Of course, these are ungranted applications, put in place to protect those coverage areas in the event these stations later choose to go back to 1WTC. No guarantee they will actually move there. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see 7/11/13 stay put on ESB to keep the higher power levels they get there.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_22970121
> 
> 
> I wonder if anyone know that the stations a) will be higher up if they go to the trade center, b) they will transmit with the same power or more power and not less, and c) they will send their signal in the same directions and not change the broadcast pattern or whatever it is called. Obviously moving 30 blocks or so south will change something with the signal all things being equal.


actually it's about twice that distance but there are other things to consider like new high rise office tower that is scheduled to be closely that will likely affect reception.


----------



## LenL

Thanks Trip fro all the helpful info!


Which leads me back to......would you agree that for any stations that move from the ESB to ITT it does not mean we all will be guaranteed better reception?


----------



## Dave Loudin

If I may jump in, at 1WTC, more will have line of sight to the antennas. However, radiated power from 1WTC will be less in order to maintain the same coverage range. This means less fill-in around obstacles, so those without line of sight may be worse off.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Loudin*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_22975082
> 
> 
> If I may jump in, at 1WTC, more will have line of sight to the antennas. However, radiated power from 1WTC will be less in order to maintain the same coverage range. This means less fill-in around obstacles, so those without line of sight may be worse off.



By all means! I want to hear what everyone has to offer about this subject! I think it may be good to know all the possible scenarios as far as reception goes if any broadcasters move to 1TT. I think the assumption that everyone will benefit may or may not be true.


----------



## Trip in VA

Any change, be it antenna patterns, transmitter locations, even configurations of other stations (especially those on the same channels in adjacent markets), can impact reception. There are simply too many variables. Some people will see improvement, others will stay the same or lose coverage.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

Yes like me, ch.11 WPIX some time it runs good, but often prime time too high fluctuation of signal gives pixelation,


----------



## LenL

Anyone else notice the time is off by 1 hour in the New York market? When my Samsung TV displays the show info and the time displays it is an hour later than the current time. All channels.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_22988548
> 
> 
> Yes like me, ch.11 WPIX some time it runs good, but often prime time too high fluctuation of signal gives pixelation,


i wonder why it's always prime time this happens as well.. I assume it has to deal with the sky conditions.. But that's my ham radio way of thinking











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_23052627
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice the time is off by 1 hour in the New York market? When my Samsung TV displays the show info and the time displays it is an hour later than the current time. All channels.


My Samsung tv is fine here


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_23052627
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice the time is off by 1 hour in the New York market? When my Samsung TV displays the show info and the time displays it is an hour later than the current time. All channels.



Sometimes the time on my Pioneer Kuro TV is off by an hour, but it really does not matter to me what the TV time shows, all I really need is the the time is correct on my Maggi DVR's.


----------



## KEVINL71

Does it have anything to do with Daylight Saving Time starting?


----------



## AvidHiker

No, it doesn't. Maybe you didn't notice you're responding to posts from last week?










I have this problem on occasion with my Samsung plasma's tuner. Usually resolves itself, or you can manually enter the time to fix it right away.


----------



## AloEuro

Lately, some major channels likeCBS 2-1,some time evenNBC 4-1 give empty pockets signals,0-0- No Signal, sometime CBS2-1 half an hour, but moving Antenna often brings back the signal


----------



## Kascnef82

During local ad breaks the hd quality of fox sucks.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16440#post_23111353
> 
> 
> Lately, some major channels likeCBS 2-1,some time evenNBC 4-1 give empty pockets signals,0-0- No Signal, sometime CBS2-1 half an hour, but moving Antenna often brings back the signal



With CBS I have had signal in the 90 plus range and I still get pixilation which has never happened in the past with strong reception. So something is going on.


----------



## DTVintermods

Remember that the measured "signal" is actually the desired direct signal +undesired echoes (noise). The equalizer cannot process long and short echoes. So it is common to have strong "signal" and poor reception.


----------



## ALP

I seem to have pretty reliable video reception (I would say I notice video problems on the order of once a week or so) whereas I notice audio dropouts every other day or so. Fortunately they are very brief audio dropouts so they do not really detract from my enjoyment of the program. Since this is my first OTA experience in the digital broadcast era I have no idea if my reception is better, average or worse than most have experienced.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23115221
> 
> 
> Remember that the measured "signal" is actually the desired direct signal +undesired echoes (noise). The equalizer cannot process long and short echoes. So it is common to have strong "signal" and poor reception.



Yes but like I said I have never had issues with pixilation when I have reception showing 90% plus. Just recently. So once again something is happening. Maybe local to me, weather etc,. But I have not seen this behavior before.


----------



## AloEuro

In coffee discussion some guy complained that he went to pick up new box from Warner on 23rd st, and now the channels give him half screen reception, I told him that he probably could fix it on Menu, to find the desired Ratio format, since I never had cable is my assumption correct ? comment please


----------



## ALP

One should not offer advice unless one is experienced in the area, however, you are probably right. That is the way it worked when I had cablevision.


----------



## Kascnef82

When will ABC improve their audio and picture quality? Ever since they split up their hd channel for livewell, which is great for showing abc programming if the main abc channel shows breaking news (like Sandy), the quality of ABC is cut in half. The bitrate for the audio is 384kps, akin to a poorly mixed dvd, and the surround sound volume fluctuates. I have a hard time listening to jeopardy, which is the only show i watch besides the am morning news before GMA, so i have to turn the volume up by 5 decibles.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23137571
> 
> 
> When will ABC improve their audio and picture quality? Ever since they split up their hd channel for livewell, which is great for showing abc programming if the main abc channel shows breaking news (like Sandy), the quality of ABC is cut in half. The bitrate for the audio is 384kps, akin to a poorly mixed dvd, and the surround sound volume fluctuates. I have a hard time listening to jeopardy, which is the only show i watch besides the am morning news before GMA, so i have to turn the volume up by 5 decibles.



I do listen to surround because I do have a surround sound setup, however, I have noticed that ABC is harder to understand than some of the other channels. With lower bitrates maybe they would be visually better off broadcasting in 1080i rather than 720p.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16400_100#post_23137571
> 
> 
> The bitrate for the audio is 384kps, akin to a poorly mixed dvd





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16400_100#post_23137653
> 
> 
> With lower bitrates maybe they would be visually better off broadcasting in 1080i rather than 720p.













- Trip


----------



## Kascnef82

All channels soon will have 1080p lol. Abc chose 720p because of how sports is portrayed in hd. Same for fox and my9. Cbs and nbc and cw use 1080i. While 1080i looks great on filmed content sports look awful.


----------



## SnellKrell

i beg to differ with you.


NFL on CBS can look spectacular!


----------



## Kascnef82

Ncaa on cbs in early rounds is horrible. The final four and championship game look amazing. The masters look better on cbs than espn. Tennis also looks great.


----------



## AloEuro

The guy I mentioned before has Analog TV 1992 RCa, and the Warner box is digital HD, and the only way to get full screen he must buy DTV


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23118643
> 
> 
> Yes but like I said I have never had issues with pixilation when I have reception showing 90% plus. Just recently. So once again something is happening. Maybe local to me, weather etc,. But I have not seen this behavior before.


I think the same way, something has changed at 2-1 CBS, I wonder what


----------



## Kascnef82

Sometimes channel 2 has poor reception on fios. The signal changes colors sometimes causing the signal to go out of wack.


----------



## T-Max

Okay, long time no post. But it's baseball season again so I'm checking out my MY9 reception in anticipation (even tho' it's looking like a rough year for the Yankees).


Anyway, today's results must either be due to tropo or some changes in 1 WTC. I moved the antenna to my #2 position (my MY9 position) and got pretty lousy reception of all channels and no reception of MY9 at all.


Readers who don't know what I'm talking about and care enough to wonder can check out my prior posts last year.


Long story short, I moved the antenna to the original (#1) position and have very good MY9 reception. I also have better reception of all NYC channels there, tho' it's not as good as it was a couple of years ago (before 1 WTC). This is surprising since last year I couldn't get any MY9 reception at this antenna location which appeared to be due to the construction progress of 1 WTC.


Then again, it may all be due to tropo(?). I haven't checked the tropo site, but I will. Still, I've had MY9 on for an hour now and it's really very solid reception. So I suspect there's no serious tropo.










BTW, I see there's actually a progress site for 1 WTC ( www.wtcprogress.com/ )


----------



## keyboard21

Just curios. Any TV channels coming from WTC1?


thanks


OR All still from ESB?


----------



## Jeann1eary

Please add any information you may have to the thread. If it's a bad thread, it'll die. But hey, that's evolution in action.


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23169896
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I see there's actually a progress site for 1 WTC ( www.wtcprogress.com/ )



Another good site to check on the 1 WTC progress is:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=419362&page=2191


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23173935
> 
> 
> Just curios. Any TV channels coming from WTC1?
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> OR All still from ESB?



We discussed this about a month ago on this forum (maybe 2 months?). Anyway there were no plans to move broadcasting from the ESB and the there were no guarantees that reception would be better for everyone with the move.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23178364
> 
> 
> We discussed this about a month ago on this forum (maybe 2 months?). Anyway there were no plans to move broadcasting from the ESB and the there were no guarantees that reception would be better for everyone with the move.



and the fact that the top floors don't even have walls yet.


----------



## Aero 1

New Channel Coming in May, *FOX Movies!* (Channel 5.3)


got this tip from another thread here:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/491563-Fox_O_Os_Weigel_Launch_Movies_Digi_Net.php?rssid=20099 


> Quote:
> Fox Television Stations and Weigel Broadcasting are partnering on Movies!, a film-themed subchannel launching in 17 Fox-owned markets this spring. The network's aim is "to create a new destination for movie fans that is fan-friendly and available for free via over-the-air television, and in many cases via local cable carriage," said Fox in a statement.
> 
> 
> Movies! will be available on Fox subchannels in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, Phoenix, Tampa, Minneapolis, Orlando, Austin, Memphis and Ocala.
> 
> 
> "We're doing Movies! because this content works in the D2 space," said Frank Cicha, senior VP of programming at Fox Television Stations. "Weigel has proven that in their other ventures, which is why we've chosen to work with them. While we've successfully used our D2 spectrum to some degree, this is the first time we're going in with all stations on board, which is exciting."
> 
> 
> Movies! enters a crowded entertainment multicast net space that includes This TV, Me-TV, Antenna TV and NBC Owned Stations rookie Cozi TV. Weigel owns Me-TV, which airs classic TV shows, and is a partner, with MGM, on This TV.
> 
> 
> The films will air 24 hours a day and will appear in a 16 by 9 format.
> 
> 
> "We are excited to work with the Fox Television Station Group in the creation of the next digital network franchise," said Neal Sabin, president of content and networks, Weigel Broadcasting.


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movies! 


> Quote:
> Movies! will broadcast 24 hours a day in 480i widescreen standard definition.
> 
> 
> The network will compete with This TV, a similarly-formatted network operated by Weigel whose primary source of programming is composed of feature films, though that network also broadcasts classic television series and children's programming.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SnellKrell*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23141200
> 
> 
> i beg to differ with you.
> 
> 
> NFL on CBS can look spectacular!



Same for me, prefer watching CBS over Fox when it comes to NFL games, I think there maybe some local reception quality that could impact how one channel looks versus the other.


----------



## Kascnef82

The movies channel sucks. Might make the pq and aq of fox hd suck like abc hd.


----------



## keyboard21

is there a website for the new Foxmovie O-O


----------



## roseha




> Quote:
> Movies! enters a crowded entertainment multicast net space that includes This TV, Me-TV, Antenna TV and NBC Owned Stations rookie Cozi TV. Weigel owns Me-TV, which airs classic TV shows, and is a partner, with MGM, on This TV.



So New York City still doesn't get METV? I sent them an email and they said they were "working on it" ?? I'd much rather get, ME, it's the only station I miss since losing cable.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roseha*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23182135
> 
> 
> So New York City still doesn't get METV? I sent them an email and they said they were "working on it" ?? I'd much rather get, ME, it's the only station I miss since losing cable.


METV is on WZME out of Bridgeport, CT. Hard to pick up OTA but it's carried by NYC area cable companies.


----------



## roseha




> Quote:
> METV is on WZME out of Bridgeport, CT. Hard to pick up OTA but it's carried by NYC area cable companies.



Thanks, but what I meant to say was that I just canceled Time Warner Cable - they cut a deal to include Showtime in my building without asking us, and my bill had gone up to $126 a month, due to increase next year. I called and told them I only wanted internet, no cable and after a big effort on their part to dissuade me I returned my cable card/tuner for the TIVO. I'm now saving over $80 a month. I work at night so I can't see a lot of TV anyway. I was watching METV, though and it's frustrating that a FOX movie channel is being added first when I think ME would be a lot more popular here.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roseha*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23186232
> 
> 
> Thanks, but what I meant to say was that I just canceled Time Warner Cable - they cut a deal to include Showtime in my building without asking us, and my bill had gone up to $126 a month, due to increase next year. I called and told them I only wanted internet, no cable and after a big effort on their part to dissuade me I returned my cable card/tuner for the TIVO. I'm now saving over $80 a month. I work at night so I can't see a lot of TV anyway. I was watching METV, though and it's frustrating that a FOX movie channel is being added first when I think ME would be a lot more popular here.



I am sorry that I do not understand this, but does everyone in your building have to take the exact same cable TV package from TWC?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23186611
> 
> 
> I am sorry that I do not understand this, but does everyone in your building have to take the exact same cable TV package from TWC?


In buildings with bulk agreements, the "base" package is the same. You can customize and have more premiums or faster Internet above the "base". Bulk agreements come with strings like the building management guaranteeing a certain take rate and make up the difference if it falls below that. It works for condos which have much lower turnover than say a rental building.


----------



## Aero 1

Oh boy! they're harming the elderly again!







this does suck if it happens, but before the uninformed comments start, there is one thing to note: There is nothing in the law that says we have to be provided free TV.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/9/4207516/cbs-ceo-threatens-dropping-broadcast-tv-in-response-to-aereo 


> Quote:
> CBS CEO the latest to threaten dropping broadcast TV in response to Aereo
> 
> 
> CBS CEO Les Moonves is the latest TV exec to publicly entertain the idea of halting free broadcast TV if streaming provider Aereo is allowed to continue its service. Responding to a question about News Corp. COO Chase Carey’s threats to make Fox cable-only, Moonves told The New York Times that he "wholeheartedly supported what Chase said." He explained that CBS was in preliminary talks with cable operators in the New York - Connecticut area (currently the only area in which Aereo operates) about what the switch would take, emphasizing his reluctance to take such a drastic approach. "Frankly, we don’t think it will get to that point," he explained.
> 
> 
> BROADCASTERS HAVE BEEN UPPING THE RHETORIC SINCE AEREO'S LEGAL VICTORY
> 
> 
> Aereo’s business, which lets subscribers pay for an individual physical antenna that captures broadcast TV signals for streaming over the internet, stands to upend the TV industry, and broadcasters have been upping the rhetoric since Aereo’s legal victory earlier this month. An appeals court ruled that Aereo’s system doesn’t infringe on broadcasters’ copyrights, prompting Fox’s Carey and Univisiion chairman Haim Saiban to threaten taking their networks off the airwaves. While the option would be a logistical and legal nightmare for networks, chances are good we’ll see similar tough talk from the TV industry in the weeks and months ahead.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23187337
> 
> 
> Oh boy! they're harming the elderly again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this does suck if it happens, but before the uninformed comments start, there is one thing to note: There is nothing in the law that says we have to be provided free TV.
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/9/4207516/cbs-ceo-threatens-dropping-broadcast-tv-in-response-to-aereo



I do not understand exactly what Aereo is doing. They are selling antennas that allow you to capture a broadcast signal from whom? Aereo or the broadcast network? If the broadcast signal is from Aereo and Aereo is rebroadcasting the network content then that seems like infringement?







Can someone please help me understand what is actually going on here.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23187514
> 
> 
> I do not understand exactly what Aereo is doing. They are selling antennas that allow you to capture a broadcast signal from whom? Aereo or the broadcast network? If the broadcast signal is from Aereo and Aereo is rebroadcasting the network content then that seems like infringement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone please help me understand what is actually going on here.



Aereo has thousands of mini Antennas the size of a quarter in Brooklyn pointing at ESB capturing OTA and streaming to its subscribers via the internet to phones, tablets, computers and Roku. As a Subscriber with your monthly or yearly payment, you "rent" one of these tiny antennas to watch and record TV.


The broadcasters are not happy because they are not getting paid by Aereo in order for them to transmit their signals over the internet. Although OTA is free, cable companies pay the networks lots of money in order to offer those channels on their service. So they say that Aereo is making money without paying the broadcasters.


The broadcasters sued Aereo but lost twice in court. Aereo is legal as defined by the courts rulings saying that since you rent an antenna from them, and you are the only one that uses that specific antenna, its no different than you buying your own and putting it in your house. So now the broadcasters have 3 options in order to get their way:


1: go to the supreme court (their only legal option) to stop Aereo in order for them to overturn the prior rullings, thats if the supreme court chooses to take up the case. if they dont, they are done.


2: Go to Congress and heavily lobby them with tons and tons of money to change the laws.


or


3: Stop broadcasting for free over the air.


What worries them the most is that now cable companies can do the same thing as Aereo in order to bypass the fees they have to pay the broadcasters or pay Aereo a smaller fee for the same content. thats why they are threatening to pull out of OTA and make it a pay channel.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23187554
> 
> 
> Aereo has thousands of mini Antennas the size of a quarter in Brooklyn pointing at ESB capturing OTA and streaming to its subscribers via the internet to phones, tablets, computers and Roku. As a Subscriber with your monthly or yearly payment, you "rent" one of these tiny antennas to watch and record TV.
> 
> 
> The broadcasters are not happy because they are not getting paid by Aereo in order for them to transmit their signals over the internet. Although OTA is free, cable companies pay the networks lots of money in order to offer those channels on their service. So they say that Aereo is making money without paying the broadcasters.
> 
> 
> The broadcasters sued Aereo but lost twice in court. Aereo is legal as defined by the courts rulings saying that since you rent an antenna from them, and you are the only one that uses that specific antenna, its no different than you buying your own and putting it in your house. So now the broadcasters have 3 options in order to get their way:
> 
> 
> 1: go to the supreme court (their only legal option) to stop Aereo in order for them to overturn the prior rullings, thats if the supreme court chooses to take up the case. if they dont, they are done.
> 
> 
> 2: Go to Congress and heavily lobby them with tons and tons of money to change the laws.
> 
> 
> or
> 
> 
> 3: Stop broadcasting for free over the air.
> 
> 
> What worries them the most is that now cable companies can do the same thing as Aereo in order to bypass the fees they have to pay the broadcasters or pay Aereo a smaller fee for the same content. thats why they are threatening to pull out of OTA and make it a pay channel.



So Aereo is basically a parasite that runs the risk of killing the host that it is feeding on. If all of the broadcast networks drop OTA broadcast. no one will "rent' an antenna from Aereo if the is no content being broadcast.


I would think that the networks have enough pull to get Congress to act on their behalf.


Also Aereo's mini antennas are not going to work very far from the broadcast source (I am about 30 to 35 miles from the ESB and my antenna is much much bigger than a quarter) so it seems municipalities that are close to broadcast towers could pass an ordnance that would not permit antenna farms.


Finally why can't the networks simply put their content on the internet either for free (that would end Aereo's business) or for a minimal subscriber fee that would be lower than what Aereo charges.


----------



## Kascnef82

Due to the yankees game on yes last night my9 carried the nets game. Both teams won


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23188114
> 
> 
> Due to the yankees game on yes last night my9 carried the nets game. Both teams won



It was broadcast at 720P and the picture was very good. I caught the last quarter even though I hate Pro Hoops.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23187829
> 
> 
> So Aereo is basically a parasite that runs the risk of killing the host that it is feeding on. If all of the broadcast networks drop OTA broadcast. no one will "rent' an antenna from Aereo if the is no content being broadcast.
> 
> 
> I would think that the networks have enough pull to get Congress to act on their behalf.
> 
> 
> Also Aereo's mini antennas are not going to work very far from the broadcast source (I am about 30 to 35 miles from the ESB and my antenna is much much bigger than a quarter) so it seems municipalities that are close to broadcast towers could pass an ordnance that would not permit antenna farms.
> 
> 
> Finally why can't the networks simply put their content on the internet either for free (that would end Aereo's business) or for a minimal subscriber fee that would be lower than what Aereo charges.



Aero charges $80 per year for NYC OTA, and you get 40 hours of DVR storage with that, too. You can subscribe if you live anywhere in the NY DMA, and that means even up in Sullivan County, in the Catskills.... whre you'd be hard pressed to get anything with an antenna, and where you will need DBS satellite if your road isn't wired for cable television.


There has been precedence in this case, in that Cablevision won the "DVR in the cloud" arguement some time ago.


What Aereo does, in a nutshell, is rents you a Tivo that records only OTA, and provides you access to that Tivo via the internet.


The subscriber will need to have the broadband connection to make this really work, and therein lay the rub... I think it's safe to say that most people who have broadband at home also have some type of TV / phone package, and are already paying for these Broadcast channels in some form. Many of these shows are available next day on the network web-sites. And what is great for a few will become a burden on infrastructure when half the town is trying to stream the SuperBowl. I am sure those who would use wireless would also put a BIG drain on the network they attach to. Wireless and broadband carriers may start charging by the MB for data now.


I am certain there are agreements in place for a cable system's franchise that will prevent them from circumventing re-transmission fees. In addition, I don't think any of them have the bandwidth at this time to supply this content at this time.


The Networks are upset about this because they can't have their cake and eat it, too. Every time there is a carriage dispute between a carrier and multimedia consortium, they always say, "Our channels are available free over the air with an antenna..." Well, what are they going to be able to say now? They are afraid the genie is out of the bottle.


I don't see Aereo changing the way many view their television. If you live in the sticks, and are lucky to be capable of subscribing to broadband, this might be an option over the $15-$20 per month you'd pay for the broadcast basic channels...


Now back to my reason for visiting....


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## dstoffa

Surprising Results from Roof Antenna.


Installed a roof antenna for my folks. Winegard HD7010 VHF/UHF. They were upset after Sandy when they power came back and they could not watch TV because CV had not come back.


House is on Long Island, 16 miles east of ESB, looking right at it. Antenna is mounted above the chimney.


Results are surprising...


For the VHF stations (7, 11, 13)... Rock star 100%.


For Fox5 (RF 44) and My9 (RF 38), 100%


For CBS2 and NBC4, I get mid 50's to mid 60's.


21 is in the opposite direction, and that comes in in the 70's.


I can pick up a lot of the other UHF indies (WASA, WMBC, WBQM) at signals above 55%, ... but NOT ion 31 (WPXN), which seemed shocking... Nothing.. Zilch.



Has anyone else noticed wiered behavior? Most of these are coming from the same direction, so I figured that if I got one, I'd get then all (and at 100%).


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## AloEuro

25-1 NYLife 720x480i 30 Hz D.Stereo

25-2 NYGov. '' ''' '''

25-3 NYCUNY 1280x720p 60Hz ''

25-4 NYDrive blank, no broadcast yet, currently off the air

The good signal is 100%, bad signal goes from 100% down to 0, pixelation, up and down


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23169896
> 
> 
> . . . Anyway, today's results must either be due to tropo or some changes in 1 WTC. I moved the antenna to my #2 position (my MY9 position) and got pretty lousy reception of all channels and no reception of MY9 at all.. . I moved the antenna to the original (#1) position and have very good MY9 reception.



I'm watching the Yankee game tonight and I once again have very good MY9 reception at the #1 position. As I recall last year's experience, I also had good reception at this location in April, then lost it in May (when the trees had leafed out). I thought it was the trees close in to the antenna but I cut them out of the way and there was no difference. But there are trees off in the distance that could be effecting reception, so maybe I'll lose reception at this antenna location again next month. So maybe it wasn't 1 WTC that caused last year's problem. Time will tell.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23173993
> 
> 
> Another good site to check on the 1 WTC progress is:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=419362&page=2191



Thanks much. I'll check it out.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16470#post_23178378
> 
> 
> New Channel Coming in May, *FOX Movies!* (Channel 5.3)
> 
> 
> got this tip from another thread here:
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/491563-Fox_O_Os_Weigel_Launch_Movies_Digi_Net.php?rssid=20099
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movies!



As some readers may recall, I watch Philly TV because of the good reception at my particular location. Thus I watch Fox ch 29 (WTXF). There is no subchannel, so I guess they'll be adding one if Philadelphia is indeed on the menu.


I hope the PQ is better than that on ch 17.3 (This TV).


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23195526
> 
> 
> 25-1 NYLife 720x480i 30 Hz D.Stereo
> 
> 25-2 NYGov. '' ''' '''
> 
> 25-3 NYCUNY 1280x780p 60Hz ''
> 
> 25-4 NYDrive blank, no broadcast yet
> 
> The good signal is 100%, bad signal goes from 100% down to 0, pixelation



Thank you, AloEuro, for reporting this! I also found this out last night while channel surfing







However, I did not observe the presence of 25-4. And I was expecting to see it considering that the New York City Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications announced last year that the WNYE-TV signal would soon accommodate all four streams. Perhaps it had not yet been activated, was temporarily off, or engineers were at work. Regardless, I'm glad the folks at NYC Media Group _finally_ got around to doing it










Prior to this change, WNYE-TV had two subchannels, *WNYE1* transmitting main programming and *WNYE2* which transmitted "NYC Gov" programming. Both channels had a static 720x480i 4:3 aspect ratio.


It should be noted that the aspect ratio on 25-1, now known as *NYLIFE*, is now dynamic, as is the aspect ratio on newcomer 25-3. However, the 25-1 stream is stretch-o-vision with cruddy PQ. Alternately, 25-3, now known as *CUNY*, appears normal and at HD quality. 25-2 is exactly as it always was, with static 720x480i 4:3 aspect ratio, except with a new PSIP name, *NYGOV*. I presume 25-4, once active, will be broadcasting similarly in aspect-ratio and PQ to 25-2.


Apparently, NYC Media Group is not offering their entire channel suite over WNYE-TV at this time; NYC World apparently isn't being offered as a subchannel yet.


----------



## AloEuro

The 25-4 is currently off the air, I think it was on the air time past showing service to car drivers how busy the highways are ,the NYC roads to tunnels and from tunnels, GWB and other bridges traffic, alo showing intersections in NYC which I liked, it showed me what kind of weather was outside on streets, people carrying umbrella, wearing heavy or light clothing, giving me idea what to wear and to carry, this was as good channel as 2-2 weather,etc.


----------



## GSfromCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23193466
> 
> 
> Surprising Results from Roof Antenna.
> 
> 
> Installed a roof antenna for my folks. Winegard HD7010 VHF/UHF. They were upset after Sandy when they power came back and they could not watch TV because CV had not come back.
> 
> 
> House is on Long Island, 16 miles east of ESB, looking right at it. Antenna is mounted above the chimney.
> 
> 
> Results are surprising...
> 
> 
> For CBS2 and NBC4, I get mid 50's to mid 60's.
> 
> 
> 21 is in the opposite direction, and that comes in in the 70's.
> 
> 
> I can pick up a lot of the other UHF indies (WASA, WMBC, WBQM) at signals above 55%, ... but NOT ion 31 (WPXN), which seemed shocking... Nothing.. Zilch.
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed wiered behavior? Most of these are coming from the same direction, so I figured that if I got one, I'd get then all (and at 100%).
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



With WPXN on 31, you MAY be also picking up Fox CT 61 which broadcasts on 31 out of the Hartford area.

Same also with WCBS. You MAY also be picking signal from CBS WFSB 3 which broadcasts on rf 33 out of the Hartford area.

As for WNBC, that is really weird. Low signal may be due to the antenna broadcast pattern they are using. I am 62 miles NE of ESB and WNBC is one of my top five strongest signals (usually in the 80's).


----------



## Kascnef82

Out of all the broadcast networks audio which one is the best?


----------



## rothe

"Best" will be a difficult thing to nail down in forum responses - it's too subjective - but I've heard some pretty impressive stuff coming over the PBS music programs like "Live at the Artists Den" and "Austin City Limits."


----------



## AloEuro

At long last ch.11 wPIX become stabilized, now I can watch it even in prime time with sufficient signal strength


----------



## AvidHiker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23214567
> 
> 
> Out of all the broadcast networks audio which one is the best?



Subjective and impossible to compare anyway since each program contains audio that is variably sourced - you would need every channel broadcasting _identical_ source material to even attempt this judgement (maybe a presidential press conference, but I imagine even those could have different mic feeds).


Besides, I have a fairly high end audio system and it all sounds pretty good to me, i.e., no obvious compression artifacts (I listen via optical out to a good quality external DAC). I don't see why one would be concerned with such a question. Perhaps the better question is - do the networks apply different levels of data compression (or any compression) to their audio? Since video takes up most of the bandwidth, is there even any concern over how much bandwidth the audio consumes?


----------



## Kascnef82

Seems that the coverage of the boston manhunt is huge. Which channel has the best coverage? I think abc did a good job covering the event.


----------



## OlegL

I live less than 9 miles away from the Empire State Building, and even with the antennas such as Winegard FL-5550A and Winegard SS-3000, I always get video/audio drops and pixelation issues when watching channels. Changing the position of the antennas doesn't make a difference for me; I still get the same issues. I am really frustrated! I tested the antennas with both my TV and my hd homerun tuner.

Why am I having these issues if I live so close to the place where the transmitters of the broadcasting stations are? Please tell me.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OlegL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23224831
> 
> 
> I live less than 9 miles away from the Empire State Building, and even with the antennas such as Winegard FL-5550A and Winegard SS-3000, I always get video/audio drops and pixelation issues when watching channels. Changing the position of the antennas doesn't make a difference for me; I still get the same issues. I am really frustrated! I tested the antennas with both my TV and my hd homerun tuner.
> 
> Why am I having these issues if I live so close to the place where the transmitters of the broadcasting stations are? Please tell me.



I am no expert, but the experience you are seeing can probably be attributed to reflected signals. Signals bouncing off other buildings / structures can arrive milliseconds after the main signal and confuse your digital tuner.


In the analog days you wouldn't see it. But now with all or nothing digital... they show up from time to time.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23225044
> 
> 
> I am no expert, but the experience you are seeing can probably be attributed to reflected signals. Signals bouncing off other buildings / structures can arrive milliseconds after the main signal and confuse your digital tuner.
> 
> 
> In the analog days you wouldn't see it. But now with all or nothing digital... they show up from time to time.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug


Yes, this is a good suggestion. There is a lot of motion going on above the city besides at street level and those moving objects could be bouncing out-of-phase signals into your receiving antenna system causing occasional reception blackouts. (Bounces off static reflectors cause the same effect, except full-time not occasional.) Too bad you can't find a sweet antenna spot that only allows direct reception and nothing from left, right, above, below, or behind (sort of like optical binoculars).


----------



## Kascnef82

Fyi the knicks begin their playoff quest on abc 7 in 20 minutes against Boston. My9 will have nets playoff coverage on days when the yankees are on yes and vice versa.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OlegL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23224831
> 
> 
> I live less than 9 miles away from the Empire State Building, and even with the antennas such as Winegard FL-5550A and Winegard SS-3000, I always get video/audio drops and pixelation issues when watching channels. Changing the position of the antennas doesn't make a difference for me; I still get the same issues. I am really frustrated! I tested the antennas with both my TV and my hd homerun tuner.
> 
> Why am I having these issues if I live so close to the place where the transmitters of the broadcasting stations are? Please tell me.


Both those look like cheap toys. imo


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OlegL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23224831
> 
> 
> I live less than 9 miles away from the Empire State Building, and even with the antennas such as Winegard FL-5550A and Winegard SS-3000, I always get video/audio drops and pixelation issues when watching channels. Changing the position of the antennas doesn't make a difference for me; I still get the same issues. I am really frustrated! I tested the antennas with both my TV and my hd homerun tuner.
> 
> Why am I having these issues if I live so close to the place where the transmitters of the broadcasting stations are? Please tell me.



You may be experiencing inner-city multipath reflections which can mess up DTV reception. This phenomenon is discussed at:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/silver.html 


You could try the two antenna trick described there but don't hold your breath.


----------



## AloEuro

The converter box sometime puts CBS2-1,2 into 2-7 and 2-8 slots, and punch in only 2 leads to 42-1,2,3,4,5,6. Apparently 42-3 Punch has been sold to muslims, now they call it 42-3 Peace tv. presented arabic also in englis, some singing, lots of talk, broadcast goes to UK,CET-Europa, probably from arabic peninsula, very anti Israel,anti jewish, anti christian propaganda


----------



## Kascnef82

Any word on when abc discontinues the livewell channel


----------



## dm145

^^^^

Have you heard something or are you just throwing it out there?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23249001
> 
> 
> Any word on when abc discontinues the livewell channel


Hopefully tomorrow, realistically not anytime soon.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23251486
> 
> 
> Hopefully tomorrow, realistically not anytime soon.



Actually I may be one of the few people who do watch it and really like 3 or 4 shows on it.


----------



## coche

Has anybody seen the broadcast strength or any other change in the WABC TV signal since _around_ March 25th, 2013?

I've always gotten a relatively weak, but consistently good signal for the past seven years I've been in my house using an OTA antenna. Rarely have a problem viewing it, though it was always my weakest signal between NBC, CBS, FOX, and ABC from NYC.

But then all of a sudden I stopped receiving WABC.

I've checked all my connections, my antenna direction, and my pre-amp, and nothing has changed.

I've also tried rescanning, but no luck.

I thought maybe just some weather was getting in the way, but it hasn't come back now for weeks.


I haven't been able to find anything online about a change in signal or strength.

Anybody here familiar with WABC TV engineering and aware of anything that might have changed around that time?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coche*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23276818
> 
> 
> Has anybody seen the broadcast strength or any other change in the WABC TV signal since _around_ March 25th, 2013?
> 
> I've always gotten a relatively weak, but consistently good signal for the past seven years I've been in my house using an OTA antenna. Rarely have a problem viewing it, though it was always my weakest signal between NBC, CBS, FOX, and ABC from NYC.
> 
> But then all of a sudden I stopped receiving WABC.
> 
> I've checked all my connections, my antenna direction, and my pre-amp, and nothing has changed.
> 
> I've also tried rescanning, but no luck.
> 
> I thought maybe just some weather was getting in the way, but it hasn't come back now for weeks.
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find anything online about a change in signal or strength.
> 
> Anybody here familiar with WABC TV engineering and aware of anything that might have changed around that time?



Might it be fair to say that deciduous trees began budding in your area at around the same time you started having this reception problem?


A single leaf, which hold minuscule amounts of water, is of little consequence. Multiply that by hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands on a single tree. Then multiply every deciduous tree going through this budding process. All of this activity creates attenuation and literally changes the environment for RF activity.


Now apply this theory to the lowest TV channel in the broadcast spectrum that provides reliable service for users with ATTIC and OUTDOOR antennas; and take note that I did not include INDOOR antennas, such as Rabbit Ears.


Finally, you say your reception of WABC-TV has been consistently "relatively weak" This leads me to ascertain that your reception point is somewhere distant of the NYC coverage area, perhaps on the fringe of these signals. Excepting the VHF-Lo signals, WABC-TV, being on channel 7, technically, is the most vulnerable signal.


While you have been very descriptive of your plant's (connections, pre-amp, directions, etc.) condition, it would help to know your approximate geographic location. Also, can you receive WPIX New York (Channel 11) or WNET Newark (Channel 13)? Have you ever been able to reliably receive these stations? If so, has this reception changed also? Have you added or removed any components? And exactly what type of antenna are you utilizing?


Finally, you should realize that over time, coaxial cable may need to be checked for signal leakage, and if found will have to be changed out. Also, some tuners can develop problems that impede reception of certain channels. Typically this problem first affects the upper channels, such as UHF and the Cable Ultra Band, and then the problem begins spreading down the dial. That doesn't mean, however, that a problem cannot develop at the opposite end and move upwards.


Lastly, be advised that if you or a nearby neighbor have installed any LED lights, such as those found alongside walkways and in gardens, this can be a major source of interference that can clobber stations in the VHF-Hi band, particularly channel 7. If you have done so, turn them off, then try to tune in channel 7. You may be very surprised by what you now see!










Do let us know the answers to these questions and how your situation is coming along. There are many people here who will try to help you. And some of them are even smarter than me


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


Great points!


----------



## alexjohnson

Newbie question, looked for search and a FAQ and apologies as I'm sure this has been asked before.


Moving back to Manhattan after several years in a few weeks. In London I've been driving TV with a Mac mini and Elgato EyeTV getting digital content, initially through OTA but now satellite. Works well, and I like being able to mash content down and take it with me when I travel with no restrictions.


I know the US is different - HBO for one thing - and will probably go the TWC / TiVo / CableCard route. But, I'm interested in trying the same thing with just networks OTA and iTunes / Netflix for anything else.


I will be living in the West Village in a low south-facing apartment. I don't have line of sight to the ESB. The WTC is roughly in line, but with a building clearly in the way. However, the ESB is only two miles or so away and I guess the wattage is high.


antennaweb.org gives the channels I want to watch a yellow, with the note:

"A Small Multidirectional Antenna is recommended to receive this station. Look for the CEA-certified Yellow mark on the antenna's box."


In the UK, we mostly use OTA, and have roof-mounted antennas and there is an industry of installation professionals ensuring they point in exactly the right direction: reception tends to be very sensitive. I live in central London only a few miles from the mast but there is a building in the way, and I gave up on OTA in favor of satellite as the antenna was just not reliable enough. I'd be very pleased to hear I could simply mount a small portable antenna: is this right? Clearly every room and building is different, but is it right to believe I could probably just have some modern version of rabbit ears and pull in all the ESB stations with meters of brick in between me and line of sight?


If yes - I think big if! - I guess there's a community which has opinions on flat / discreet antennas so as not to make it look like you live in the Soviet Embassy…?










Thanks for any thoughts.


----------



## Kascnef82

When the transition from esb to wtc occurs will therr be a change in quality of hd broadcast


----------



## coche




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23278635
> 
> 
> When the transition from esb to wtc occurs will therr be a change in quality of hd broadcast



Do you know when this is planned to occur?

And do you know if they've done any signal changes in preparation? Long shot, but I'm stumped.


----------



## coche




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23277248
> 
> 
> Might it be fair to say that deciduous trees began budding in your area at around the same time you started having this reception problem?
> 
> 
> A single leaf, which hold minuscule amounts of water, is of little consequence. Multiply that by hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands on a single tree. Then multiply every deciduous tree going through this budding process. All of this activity creates attenuation and literally changes the environment for RF activity.
> 
> 
> Now apply this theory to the lowest TV channel in the broadcast spectrum that provides reliable service for users with ATTIC and OUTDOOR antennas; and take note that I did not include INDOOR antennas, such as Rabbit Ears.



Good point. When the signal dropped out for me in mid- to late- March, I guess there could have been some budding, but it was still pretty early. Even now the trees closest to my antenna are only still coming out, not fully bloomed. In any case, I've never experienced this is past summers, this is my seventh summer in this house.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23277248
> 
> 
> Finally, you say your reception of WABC-TV has been consistently "relatively weak" This leads me to ascertain that your reception point is somewhere distant of the NYC coverage area, perhaps on the fringe of these signals. Excepting the VHF-Lo signals, WABC-TV, being on channel 7, technically, is the most vulnerable signal.
> 
> 
> While you have been very descriptive of your plant's (connections, pre-amp, directions, etc.) condition, it would help to know your approximate geographic location. Also, can you receive WPIX New York (Channel 11) or WNET Newark (Channel 13)? Have you ever been able to reliably receive these stations? If so, has this reception changed also? Have you added or removed any components? And exactly what type of antenna are you utilizing?



I'm located in Stamford, CT, about 35 miles from ESB. My antenna is a large, directional antenna mounted in my attic. I know I could move it outside and drastically improve my signal, but again, it's never been necessary in the past seven years so I'd like to avoid it if possible.


I do receive Channel 11 and Channel 13, but both have always been very weak signals, too. At this point though they are both better signals than my Channel 7. It's only Channel 7 which seems to have fallen off.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23277248
> 
> 
> Finally, you should realize that over time, coaxial cable may need to be checked for signal leakage, and if found will have to be changed out. Also, some tuners can develop problems that impede reception of certain channels. Typically this problem first affects the upper channels, such as UHF and the Cable Ultra Band, and then the problem begins spreading down the dial. That doesn't mean, however, that a problem cannot develop at the opposite end and move upwards.



Do you know about how long coax cable should last? The cable from my antenna to the preamp is seven years old, installed when I put up the antenna. From there I split it to the several TVs in my house, where there is older cable. But when I lost this signal, it was lost on all of my TVs at the same time, not just one. So I've sort of ignored problems with individual tuners. I have though tried removing all splitters and connecting just a single TV to the antenna, but that didn't help.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23277248
> 
> 
> Lastly, be advised that if you or a nearby neighbor have installed any LED lights, such as those found alongside walkways and in gardens, this can be a major source of interference that can clobber stations in the VHF-Hi band, particularly channel 7. If you have done so, turn them off, then try to tune in channel 7. You may be very surprised by what you now see!



A good idea, but no new lighting or other obvious interference that I can think of. I also got obsessed one day and shut off all the breakers in my house other than those needed for my TV and antenna pre-amp, just to try and see if I had some interference in my home wiring. Still no luck.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23277248
> 
> 
> Do let us know the answers to these questions and how your situation is coming along. There are many people here who will try to help you. And some of them are even smarter than me



Thanks for the help!


----------



## d3193




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alexjohnson*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23277970
> 
> 
> Newbie question, looked for search and a FAQ and apologies as I'm sure this has been asked before.
> 
> 
> Moving back to Manhattan after several years in a few weeks. In London I've been driving TV with a Mac mini and Elgato EyeTV getting digital content, initially through OTA but now satellite. Works well, and I like being able to mash content down and take it with me when I travel with no restrictions.
> 
> 
> I know the US is different - HBO for one thing - and will probably go the TWC / TiVo / CableCard route. But, I'm interested in trying the same thing with just networks OTA and iTunes / Netflix for anything else.
> 
> 
> I will be living in the West Village in a low south-facing apartment. I don't have line of sight to the ESB. The WTC is roughly in line, but with a building clearly in the way. However, the ESB is only two miles or so away and I guess the wattage is high.
> 
> 
> antennaweb.org gives the channels I want to watch a yellow, with the note:
> 
> "A Small Multidirectional Antenna is recommended to receive this station. Look for the CEA-certified Yellow mark on the antenna's box."
> 
> 
> In the UK, we mostly use OTA, and have roof-mounted antennas and there is an industry of installation professionals ensuring they point in exactly the right direction: reception tends to be very sensitive. I live in central London only a few miles from the mast but there is a building in the way, and I gave up on OTA in favor of satellite as the antenna was just not reliable enough. I'd be very pleased to hear I could simply mount a small portable antenna: is this right? Clearly every room and building is different, but is it right to believe I could probably just have some modern version of rabbit ears and pull in all the ESB stations with meters of brick in between me and line of sight?
> 
> 
> If yes - I think big if! - I guess there's a community which has opinions on flat / discreet antennas so as not to make it look like you live in the Soviet Embassy…?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts.



Your problem will not be signal strength, it will be mutli-path. Manhattan is notorious for this, and in a south facing apartment your strongest signal might well be a reflection. The only way to find out whether or not you can get decent OTA pictures is to try it. Odds are you won't be able to put an antenna on the roof, so buy a low cost rabbits ears (or equivalent) and see what you get. Of course, when you move around the room you'll probably affect the signal.

There's a reason why cable is so popular in Manhattan; for many it's the only way to get a reliable, watchable picture. If cost is a factor, you might find OTA worth experimenting with.


----------



## icemannyr

When scanning for channels my tuner adds ch 36.5 with no channel name or audio and video. Anyone know what that channel is?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Coche,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coche*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23279014
> 
> 
> I'm located in Stamford, CT, about 35 miles from ESB. My antenna is a large, directional antenna mounted in my attic. I know I could move it outside and drastically improve my signal, but again, it's never been necessary in the past seven years so I'd like to avoid it if possible.


Your antenna and its location sound fine. I wouldn't recommend moving it outside over this seemingly lone issue. I presume you have checked the elements and connections running off of it (including the matching transformer) and there are no weak or broken elements and no frayed or loose wires, correct?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coche*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23279014
> 
> 
> Do you know about how long coax cable should last?


Funny thing about coaxial cable: It can vary greatly. For example, I changed out a five year old 50' run of RG-59U in favor of a brand new 25' run of RG-6. With a newer coax at better impedance, I should have realized a significant signal improvement, right? The signal _worsened_ following that job










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coche*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23279014
> 
> 
> The cable from my antenna to the preamp is seven years old, installed when I put up the antenna. From there I split it to the several TVs in my house, where there is older cable. But when I lost this signal, it was lost on all of my TVs at the same time, not just one. So I've sort of ignored problems with individual tuners. I have though tried removing all splitters and connecting just a single TV to the antenna, but that didn't help.


In that case, I would rule out a tuner issue also. Is it possible that any of the coaxs running off the splitter could have become frayed? Any signal leakage from any location can cause errant RF interference to spill out. As I said, channel 7 is very vulnerable to such interference.


A few other questions: Did your reception levels for channel 7 drop first and then disappear completely? Has your reception of WTNH New Haven (RF Channel 8) changed at all? And have you tried eliminating the pre-amp?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coche*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23279014
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help!


You're welcome! Do follow up with us here.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23281632
> 
> 
> When scanning for channels my tuner adds ch 36.5 with no channel name or audio and video. Anyone know what that channel is?


WNJU Linden. This was their virtual channel 47-3 subchannel when Telemundo carried "Soi TV", which is now carried by WMBQ-CD New York over primary channel 46-1. Apparently the engineers at WNJU didn't fully disengage the -3 operation, and some tuners are still recognizing it as active. You are seeing the actual RF channel number because there is no PSIP information being transmitted. It is essentially an open carrier.


----------



## asg1290

Get one of these

http://www.gomohu.com/ 


I live in a similar situation to you and it works great. Make sure your tuner is decent.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *asg1290*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23282962
> 
> 
> Get one of these
> 
> http://www.gomohu.com/



If that overpriced piece of flim-flam works, so would a cheap loop and rabbit ears that you could buy at Big Lots for under $5.


----------



## AvidHiker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23278635
> 
> 
> When the transition from esb to wtc occurs will therr be a change in quality of hd broadcast



There's no timeline for this possible switch, so no point in confusing people with this "information". From what I've read in this thread, the switch is far from imminent. This article highlights some of the considerations:

http://www.radioworld.com/article/developer-plans-broadcast-spire-for--wtc-in-new-york/213795


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AvidHiker*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23285682
> 
> 
> There's no timeline for this possible switch, so no point in confusing people with this "information". From what I've read in this thread, the switch is far from imminent. This article highlights some of the considerations:
> 
> http://www.radioworld.com/article/developer-plans-broadcast-spire-for--wtc-in-new-york/213795



Not only is there NO TIMELINE....there are NO PLANS.


People keep bringing this up because they somehow think this will improve reception. This is not a given.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23287319
> 
> 
> Not only is there NO TIMELINE....there are NO PLANS.
> 
> looming
> 
> People keep bringing this up because they somehow think this will improve reception. This is not a given.


LenL is right. And the looming shuttering of the Dielectric Antenna Company adversely affects any relocation project. Their engineers and technicians were instrumental in creating analog and DTV antennas for original WTC and for ESB, and without their skills it's back to square one. Let the speculation and inuendo and misinformation begin !


also, check this link: http://www.mediabistro.com/tvspy/one-world-trade-center-lobbies-local-broadcasters-to-come-back_b89479#more-89479


----------



## Kascnef82

No matter how ABC7 touts itself as NYC's most watched news station, their views are crap. Even the hd quality sucks. I remember watching lost in hd on cablevision and the signal would break up once inawhile (i think it was cablevision's fault) Since I have fios, the signal is pretty good but picture quality is soft and audio sounds like its underwater. No wonder why most of the profit that Disney is making is from cable, internet, and home media.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23288793
> 
> 
> No matter how ABC7 touts itself as NYC's most watched news station, their views are crap. Even the hd quality sucks. I remember watching lost in hd on cablevision and the signal would break up once inawhile (i think it was cablevision's fault) Since I have fios, the signal is pretty good but picture quality is soft and audio sounds like its underwater. No wonder why most of the profit that Disney is making is from cable, internet, and home media.


Eyewitness News at 5 for years enjoyed a strong lead in from Oprah and probably managed to hold on to many of those viewers which most likely don't know the difference between SD and HD and aren't as picky as us videophiles.


----------



## asg1290




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23283352
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *asg1290*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23282962
> 
> 
> Get one of these
> 
> http://www.gomohu.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that overpriced piece of flim-flam works, so would a cheap loop and rabbit ears that you could buy at Big Lots for under $5.
Click to expand...


It was the best antenna I tried in my apartment. I tried the most basic to some big fancy ones and this one worked the best. It is also is very subtle and girlfriend / wife friendly.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23281632
> 
> 
> When scanning for channels my tuner adds ch 36.5 with no channel name or audio and video. Anyone know what that channel is?


I have the same till today morning, it shows no ch. identification except it shows 704x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo, good signal, and on sreen full color rain, no color bars but color rain indicating you need to unscramble the signal


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23288793
> 
> 
> No matter how ABC7 touts itself as NYC's most watched news station, their views are crap. Even the hd quality sucks. I remember watching lost in hd on cablevision and the signal would break up once inawhile (i think it was cablevision's fault) Since I have fios, the signal is pretty good but picture quality is soft and audio sounds like its underwater. No wonder why most of the profit that Disney is making is from cable, internet, and home media.


Speaking of ABC did anyone have break ups yesterday? I was a little shocked because I have a roof top antenna and it was breaking up a few times.


----------



## reddice

WABC is still the strongest station for me.


----------



## Kascnef82

The top of 1WTC is done...any word on when the antenna is activated?


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23300993
> 
> 
> The top of 1WTC is done...any word on when the antenna is activated?



There are no published plans or schedules to do so.... nor any indication that any broadcasters are actually going to move there. Check back in a year or two when the building is finished.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23300181
> 
> 
> WABC is still the strongest station for me.


Same here but I was shocked to see break up's yesterday given I almost have a full signal level.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23301513
> 
> 
> Same here but I was shocked to see break up's yesterday given I almost have a full signal level.


Full signal level doesn't guarantee no break ups just like a stable picture doesn't automatically mean good signal level. One can have low signal and good picture or your problem of good levels but bad picture. Same theory applies in the cable tv world.


----------



## Kascnef82

Watching the knicks game on abc...horrible picture and audio quality compared to espn and tnt. Espn 98.7 is the way to go if you like knicks and rangers, speaking of which the blueshirts try to starve off elimination today on the peacock network in all of its macroblocking glory with superb 5.1 audio.


----------



## Kascnef82

My mistake....rangers game on msg.


----------



## AvidHiker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23307406
> 
> 
> Watching the knicks game on abc...horrible picture and audio quality compared to espn and tnt. Espn 98.7 is the way to go if you like knicks and rangers, speaking of which the blueshirts try to starve off elimination today on the peacock network in all of its macroblocking glory with superb 5.1 audio.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23307591
> 
> 
> My mistake....rangers game on msg.



I have to ask, because there seems to be a pattern here... what do these posts have to do with OTA (over-the-air) television broadcasts in the NY area? I see a lot of comments from you about broadcast quality, but are you actually using an antenna to tune in, or just a cable service?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23307406
> 
> 
> Watching the knicks game on abc...horrible picture and audio quality compared to espn and tnt. Espn 98.7 is the way to go if you like knicks and rangers, speaking of which the blueshirts try to starve off elimination today on the peacock network in all of its macroblocking glory with superb 5.1 audio.



any sporting event on ABC is actually using resources of sister network ESPN. because WABC and other ABC owned and operated stations carry 2 HD streams (ABC and Live Well) , there is much less bandwith for the broadcast. For cable companies that pass thru ESPN HD at its full bandwith of 19.4mbps the picture is great. Even those that squeeze 3 HD channels per 38.8mbps QAM, the bandwith will be about 13mbps which is still greater than what WABC gives to boradcast HD channel.


----------



## reddice

Why does WABC still have channel 7.3 which is just a downconveted 7.2 Live Well channel. That is a waste of bandwith. Even other channels have a SD downconverted channel which to me is a big waste.


----------



## Kascnef82

The audio quality of abc sucks


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16530#post_23310931
> 
> 
> Why does WABC still have channel 7.3 which is just a downconveted 7.2 Live Well channel. That is a waste of bandwith. Even other channels have a SD downconverted channel which to me is a big waste.


It was explained here before. The down convert is to reach more cable customers that don't have HD. Cable companies down convert primarychannels only not subchannels. As penetration of HD boxes goes up which they have, ABC should consider removing the simulcast.


----------



## Kascnef82

The livewell HD and SD simlucast is good for ABC's revenue since it provides ABC programming in case WABC has breaking coverage of a main event, say Hurricane Sandy or the Boston manhunt. THe downside is that the audio of ABC 7.2 is terrible, and the HD sucks.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23315733
> 
> 
> The livewell HD and SD simlucast is good for ABC's revenue since it provides ABC programming in case WABC has breaking coverage of a main event, say Hurricane Sandy or the Boston manhunt. THe downside is that the audio of ABC 7.2 is terrible, and the HD sucks.


True it provides an outlet for ABC programming in the event of a major event but on any given day networks would prefer to stay with normal programming with commercials than go commercial free with expensive continuous news coverage. Also most people cable viewers can't tell you where Live Well or sub channels of any major network are located on their cable dial. If I asked 10 people what channel number Cozi TV is on, 9 will look at me like I have 2 heads.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23315733
> 
> 
> The livewell HD and SD simlucast is good for ABC's revenue since it provides ABC programming in case WABC has breaking coverage of a main event, say Hurricane Sandy or the Boston manhunt. THe downside is that the audio of ABC 7.2 is terrible, and the HD sucks.



So tell me which sub channels are better? I'd like to know as I think 7.2 has the best audio and PQ of any of the sub channels I get.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23316115
> 
> 
> True it provides an outlet for ABC programming in the event of a major event but on any given day networks would prefer to stay with normal programming with commercials than go commercial free with expensive continuous news coverage. Also most people cable viewers can't tell you where Live Well or sub channels of any major network are located on their cable dial. If I asked 10 people what channel number Cozi TV is on, 9 will look at me like I have 2 heads.


Friend of mine has cable and can not get the subchannels, he gets it only on converter box, which means OTA wievers have advantage over only cable users since there are lots of good movies on subs like 4-Cozi; 11-2,3; BuenaVista 3-2, ION31-3 etc.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23326391
> 
> 
> Friend of mine has cable and can not get the subchannels, he gets it only on converter box, which means OTA wievers have advantage over only cable users since there are lots of good movies on subs like 4-Cozi; 11-2,3; BuenaVista 3-2, ION31-3 etc.



Cable companies need to agree with content providers to carry sub-channels, just like they do with the main channels.

Many systems carry the sub-channels in digital format only. Thus, you will need a clear-QAM tuner to receive them. I know Cablevision on Long Island carries most of them in the clear.


Since your friend can get them on the converter box, he gets them, but he probably has an old TV and thus cannot tune them.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23326391
> 
> 
> Friend of mine has cable and can not get the subchannels, he gets it only on converter box, which means OTA wievers have advantage over only cable users since there are lots of good movies on subs like 4-Cozi; 11-2,3; BuenaVista 3-2, ION31-3 etc.


Just about every cable system that carries WNBC HD also carries Cozi. Same goes for the WPIX and its subchannels. A couple of systems carry ION's qubo channel. The good ones with any real value will usually manage to cut a deal for broad carriage.


----------



## icemannyr

Just noticed a 3rd SD sub channel added to WWOR-DT 9.4 MundoFOX.


The legal ID screen says WPXO-LD 34.1.


----------



## Kascnef82

Great. Now my9 quality will suck in hd


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23329251
> 
> 
> Just noticed a 3rd SD sub channel added to WWOR-DT 9.4 MundoFOX.
> 
> 
> The legal ID screen says WPXO-LD 34.1.


WHat is Mundo Fox?


A Spanish Fox?


When is the new Fox Channel 5.3 (MOVIES!) Coming?


----------



## AloEuro

Movies coming soon......was day long Friday ad. on ch.5 - 3 or 5, then it disappeared

5-1,2, plus the Movie channel 5-3 or 5-5, it gave no Input info

Ch.9-4 shows MundoFox identical 34-1 only in Spanish


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23334310
> 
> 
> When is the new Fox Channel 5.3 (MOVIES!) Coming?



Wikipedia reads the expected launch date is Monday, May 27.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movies! 


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23336143
> 
> 
> Wikipedia reads the expected launch date is Monday, May 27.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movies!
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug


Very cool. My aunt will like this. You guys have to remember when analog just got us maybe 16 channels. Half had different levels of snow. Almost little to no movies. Now we have how many movie channels? Yes some are really old and some are 2000 old. Not that bad. My aunt now has 79 channels including subs. I deleted a hand full. Since half the channels are a different language or infomercials. Still not bad for free at all


Thanks for the info


----------



## Kascnef82

Will fios carry that channel?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23337110
> 
> 
> Will fios carry that channel?


Well they carry antenna tv, cozi tv, bounce tv and other subs. So I think yes


----------



## Aero 1

Another new OTA channel announced getTV - coming fall 2013 on a Univision sub channel (68.3). Being OTA only is getting better and better. Now all we need is a consistant Me TV channel out of NYC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GetTV 


> Quote:
> although it will be carried on Univision's stations (which are affiliated with Spanish language networks), the channel will be broadcast in English.


 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sony-pictures-television-networks-to-launch-gettv-204086821.html 


> Quote:
> Sony Pictures Television Networks To Launch getTV
> 
> 
> CULVER CITY, Calif., April 22, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Pictures Television (SPT) Networks today announced plans to launch getTV, a new US digital broadcast television network airing classic movies, in the fall of 2013. The third wholly owned Sony-branded channel in the US, getTV will premier on the digital subchannels of Univision Television Group owned television stations. SPT is in active discussions with other stations groups in advance of launch. The announcement was made by Andy Kaplan , president, worldwide networks, SPT.
> 
> (LOGO: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20080424/LATH509LOGO )
> 
> "The over the air market provides a significant growth opportunity for our channels business," said Kaplan. "We recognize the demand for premium content that appeals to audiences of all ages, which is exactly what getTV will offer."
> 
> getTV will bring viewers the best movies from Hollywood's golden era. Programming will be primarily from the Sony Pictures library, featuring more than 3,500 films, including 12 Best Picture Academy Award


----------



## crabboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23326391
> 
> 
> Friend of mine has cable and can not get the subchannels, he gets it only on converter box, which means OTA wievers have advantage over only cable users since there are lots of good movies on subs like 4-Cozi; 11-2,3; BuenaVista 3-2, ION31-3 etc.



Sounds like he does what I do: We have Directv on our main (living room) TV. I have an antenna/converter box/DVD recorder setup on an additional TV. I check the schedules in advance and record movies from Cozi, Antenna TV, THIS, and Bounce TV. I'm building up a decent movie collection. Looking forward to the Fox movie channel and the new (this fall) Sony movie channel (getTV?).


----------



## keyboard21

Where is 67.1 being broadcast from.? I do not think we get that in queens? UNivision is channel 41.1 no?


Is 67 from NJ?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23337957
> 
> 
> Where is 67.1 being broadcast from.? I do not think we get that in queens? UNivision is channel 41.1 no?
> 
> 
> Is 67 from NJ?



It's 68.3. The wiki is wrong.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23338008
> 
> 
> It's 68.3. The wiki is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Tv fool shows this


Transmitter Profile Detail

WXTV-DT (Digital)

Channel: 40 *(41.1)*

Network: Univision (SI)

Maximum ERP: 360.000 kW



Transmitter Profile Detail

WFUT-DT (Digital)

Channel: 30 (68.1)

Network: Telefutura

Maximum ERP: 200.000 kW


So I am a little confused. Is Telefutura 68.1 really Univision?


TVfool is saying 41.1 is univision


----------



## Trip in VA

Univision is owner of Telefutura (now called Unimas).


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23338346
> 
> 
> Univision is owner of Telefutura (now called Unimas).
> 
> 
> - Trip


TY Trip So it will be on 68.3?


Is so that is great we get that


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm assuming it will be on 68.3 but there's no guarantee at this point.


- Trip


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23338398
> 
> 
> I'm assuming it will be on 68.3 but there's no guarantee at this point.
> 
> 
> - Trip


When they said Univision. I assumed 47.1


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23337957
> 
> 
> Where is 67.1 being broadcast from.? I do not think we get that in queens? UNivision is channel 41.1 no?
> 
> 
> Is 67 from NJ?



Unimas is on WFUT 68 in NYC and WFTY 67 on Long Island


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16500#post_23197544
> 
> 
> . . . So maybe it wasn't 1 WTC that caused last year's problem. . .



Well, it's that time of year again.


Those that don't already know can look back at my posts of 1 year ago (May 2012), when I had good MY9 reception in April (for the three MY9 Yankee games) and then no reception at all in May. The first game in May was Tuesday, May 15 @ Baltimore and I had no reception at my usual antenna location (now known as my #1 position). I suspected that it was the tree leaves on a tree relatively close to the antenna that was the problem, since that tree had "leafed out" since my last April game on 4/23/12. So I cut the offending branches out of the way and there was no difference.


It was then suggested that the recent height of 1WTC might be the cause, so I moved the antenna to my #2 position (~8 ft away) and got adequate reception. That was in June; I missed all three May games (15th, 18th, 22nd) due to no reception. I had reception at that location for the rest of the season.


This year, I again got all of the April games as well as the last MY9 game which was last Friday, the 17th. This is at my #1 location. But whereas April's reception was an essentially solid 85% to 86%, Friday's reception was an essentially solid 84%. Later in the game it increased to an essentially solid 84% with fairly solid spells up at 85%, but it was indeed an essentially solid 84% throughout and I watched the entire game with very few glitches.


A reasonably solid 85% or above gives me issue-free reception. An essentially solid 84% gives me essentially issue-free reception. But if I'm only getting a max of 84%, it's usually not essentially solid enough to give me suitable reception. Last Friday's reception was unusually solid, in my experience, when that's the max I'm getting. So last Friday's reception was rather unusual.


Which brings me to today. I tried reception at the #1 position and it max'd out at 81%, with the occasional drops to zero. I then moved to the #2 position and it's basically the same.


So at this point, I have no MY9 reception.


All this leads me to suspect that it was not 1WTC that caused last year's problem. I now suspect that it's the trees in the distance that are the problem. Or, more specifically, the leaves on those trees.


Or it could be the combination of those trees coupled with the height of 1WTC (?).


I'll go back up and move the antenna around to see if I can find another sweet spot, but as of now, no Yankee game for me tonight (or the rest of the summer?)


My other NYC stations are all okay, except for 5.1 and 5.2, which I NEVER get.


I truly hope that the MY9 antenna moves to the tippy top of 1WTC, and that it happens tomorrow, if not sooner.


----------



## Kascnef82

If fox goes cable and no longer becomes a broadcast channel does that mean channel 5 might be independent again? Lol...


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23341609
> 
> 
> If fox goes cable and no longer becomes a broadcast channel does that mean channel 5 might be independent again? Lol...


It's simply a threat because of Aereo. Even if Fox went cable only, the station itself will not change. They will just shut down their OTA transmitters where Aereo operates which is now only NY and Boston. Fox would continue to transmit WNYW to local cable companies via fiber.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

The WNYW New York .2 or .3 sub-channel is now an active stream with no audio or video content. It is HD with dynamic aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Movies!* on virtual channel 5-2. Language is English. Time and program guide information are accurate. _Movies! Channel Coming Soon_ appears as the current program, "No Description" is the subject. It is a 3-hour looping program beginning daily at 12:00AM.


Additionally, Fox has relabeled the PSIP channel names of the alternate SD simulcasts on both channels 44 and 38. Channel 44-4 (Virtual Channel 9-2) is now *WWOR-SD* and Channel 38-4 (Virtual Channel 5-2) is now *WNYW-SD*.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23341945
> 
> 
> It's simply a threat because of Aereo. Even if Fox went cable only, the station itself will not change. They will just shut down their OTA transmitters where Aereo operates which is now only NY and Boston. Fox would continue to transmit WNYW to local cable companies via fiber.



I disagree. Wouldn't they need to hand in their FCC license if they shut down their transmitters? The need to transmit something. I bet they will become like any other cable network, and move all the Fox Network programming to cable / satellite. The OTA stations will become informercial city....


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23343058
> 
> 
> The WNYW New York .2 or .3 sub-channel is now an active stream with no audio or video content. It is HD with dynamic aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Movies!* on virtual channel 5-2. Language is English. Time and program guide information are accurate. _Movies! Channel Coming Soon_ appears as the current program, "No Description" is the subject. It is a 3-hour looping program beginning daily at 12:00AM.
> 
> 
> Additionally, Fox has relabeled the PSIP channel names of the alternate SD simulcasts on both channels 44 and 38. Channel 44-4 (Virtual Channel 9-2) is now *WWOR-SD* and Channel 38-4 (Virtual Channel 5-2) is now *WNYW-SD*.


One of my converter boxes gives reading for Movies ch. 5- 2 720x480i 30 Hz Dolby Stereo


----------



## Kascnef82

Will movies be on cable providers?


----------



## Trip in VA

Most likely, especially if Bounce already is.


- Trip


----------



## Kascnef82

Movies could be like this.tv and have commercials and cropping and edits.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23343058
> 
> 
> The WNYW New York .2 or .3 sub-channel is now an active stream with no audio or video content. It is HD with dynamic aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Movies!* on virtual channel 5-2. Language is English. Time and program guide information are accurate. _Movies! Channel Coming Soon_ appears as the current program, "No Description" is the subject. It is a 3-hour looping program beginning daily at 12:00AM.
> 
> 
> Additionally, Fox has relabeled the PSIP channel names of the alternate SD simulcasts on both channels 44 and 38. Channel 44-4 (Virtual Channel 9-2) is now *WWOR-SD* and Channel 38-4 (Virtual Channel 5-2) is now *WNYW-SD*.



I watch Philly OTA virtually exclusively but for MY9 Yankee games, and those channels did not show up on WTXF ch 29 until I did a re-scan.


29.2 is Movies! and has content, but it's just the duplicate of the main channel at the moment (on both of my boxes).


29.3 is MundoFox and has programming consistent with that channel. I did the scan early this afternoon (or late morning?) and there was a foreign language movie with oriental-looking actors but speaking Spanish with English subtitles as part of the display.


aye carumba!


As of ~6:55 PM, they were showing Betty La Fea


Zap2it has not yet incorporated these subchannels into it's page for me.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23345379
> 
> 
> Most likely, especially if Bounce already is. - Trip



As far as I am aware, I still have Bounce OTA. I didn't check it last night when I was watching the Yankee game, but I _think_ it's there.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23341470
> 
> 
> . . . Which brings me to today. I tried reception at the #1 position and it max'd out at 81%, with the occasional drops to zero. I then moved to the #2 position and it's basically the same.
> 
> 
> So at this point, I have no MY9 reception . . ..



FWIW, here's the update.


Right after I posted last evening I moved the antenna back to the #1 position and tilted it upward a bit via a rope I have tied to the opposite end which I then secure to the mast. That gave me iffy 84% which went to "fairly" solid 84% by gametime (7PM). So I had reception with glitches.


From there reception improved (fairly quickly) and by 7:45 or so I had reasonably decent reception. By 8:30 I had what looked to be solid 84% (which gives me issue-free reception if "solid" enough, which it really never is, especially when a plane goes by) with brief jumps up to 85%.


The end result is that I had satisfactory reception of the entire game and really didn't miss anything to speak of (thanks gawd for replays).


Now, I have to say that this condition is very different than last year. For one thing, I don't seem to have any decent reception at the #2 position whereas last year I could only watch from that position from May through September. I had no suitable reception from the #1 position at all.


The improved reception I got last night after moving the antenna back to #1 position may have been due to the wind dying down, which it did at about the time I moved it back. It was pretty windy before that and I suspect that the leaves on the trees in the distance (which are on top of the ridge that blocks me from NYC) were giving me multipath when the wind was blowing.


Final point: Just like last year, I identified a #3 position which is only about a foot behind the #1 position. Maybe 18 inches. That seems to be a sweet spot giving me at least 85%, as was also the case last year. I was gonna put a mounting bracket there last year but didn't. I think I'll do that now for this year.


This OTA suff is very tricky indeed.


Lotta ins, lotta outs.


First guy to correctly identify that reference gets a gold star.


NO CHEATING!


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23345639
> 
> 
> The improved reception I got last night after moving the antenna back to #1 position may have been due to the wind dying down, which it did at about the time I moved it back. It was pretty windy before that and I suspect that the leaves on the trees in the distance (which are on top of the ridge that blocks me from NYC) were giving me multipath when the wind was blowing.



Since you say it was pretty windy, it is possible 1WTC was swaying in the wind causing the multipath signals to fluctuate causing your glitches. See if it happens again when it is pretty windy.


ps. Thanks for the Shout Out. It is appreciated.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23345986
> 
> 
> Since you say it was pretty windy, it is possible 1WTC was swaying in the wind causing the multipath signals to fluctuate causing your glitches. See if it happens again when it is pretty windy.



1WTC is built like a rock. At 50mph the top sways less than .1 deg


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23347895
> 
> 
> 1WTC is built like a rock. At 50mph the top sways less than .1 deg



0.1 degree may seem small, but 1776 feet away, that's a movement over 3 feet.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## LenL

What are you guys talking about? 1 WTC has NO impact on our reception...period. We could blame the moon while we are at it.


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23348889
> 
> 
> What are you guys talking about? 1 WTC has NO impact on our reception...period. We could blame the moon while we are at it.


Well, it could have an impact under certain conditions, if the skin of 1 WTC deflected enough of a station's signal through a longer path into the receiving antenna, which then added out of phase with the station's direct signal, resulting in enough cancellation to blackout that station. This is a huge geometry/calculus problem that would vary with the receiving antenna's pattern, plus the station's wavelength, so not all channels would be similarly affected. I don't believe the moon bounces enough signal into the receiving antenna to cause noticeable cancellation.


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23348889
> 
> 
> What are you guys talking about? 1 WTC has NO impact on our reception...period. We could blame the moon while we are at it.



Please check this past post on this forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/180#post_2709308 


Extracting part of the post that reads:


"The world's most unusual antenna site may not exist much longer. Recently, the Port of New York Authority has been planning the construction of twin 110-story skyscrapers in Lower Manhattan. Independent studies by Alford Manufacturing Co, and Jansky and Bailey have shown that the proposed towers would cause ghosting to some viewers watching some of the TV stations presently on the Empire State Building. Several solutions to the program have been advanced, one being to relocate antennas from Empire State to the new. taller structures (to be known as the World Trade Center)."


Ghosting is the same as multipath. As George says, ghosting/multipath can cause reception problems especially if the reflection point on 1WTC is swaying in the wind. Some HDTVs can't process rapidly changing multipath signals.


----------



## dm145

Just saw a commercial on FOX

Instructs anyone that watches tv with an antenna to rescan on Memorial Day to get Movies on 5.2


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23349824
> 
> 
> Just saw a commercial on FOX
> 
> Instructs anyone that watches tv with an antenna to rescan on Memorial Day to get Movies on 5.2


I rescanned before then but the channel is just a blank screen right now..


However another channel which I forgot the number has nothing but "digital snow" Not sure why.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *retiredengineer*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23349238
> 
> 
> Please check this past post on this forum:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/180#post_2709308
> 
> 
> Extracting part of the post that reads:
> 
> 
> "The world's most unusual antenna site may not exist much longer. Recently, the Port of New York Authority has been planning the construction of twin 110-story skyscrapers in Lower Manhattan. Independent studies by Alford Manufacturing Co, and Jansky and Bailey have shown that the proposed towers would cause ghosting to some viewers watching some of the TV stations presently on the Empire State Building. Several solutions to the program have been advanced, one being to relocate antennas from Empire State to the new. taller structures (to be known as the World Trade Center)."
> 
> 
> Ghosting is the same as multipath. As George says, ghosting/multipath can cause reception problems especially if the reflection point on 1WTC is swaying in the wind. Some HDTVs can't process rapidly changing multipath signals.



Simply unfounded conjecture. T-MAX has had problems right along with MY9 way before the 1 WTC was even planned. He has posted and lamented many times on this forum about abrupt changes in his reception for no apparent reason and the need to make changes to his antennas. He has a very strange and unique situation that keeps recurring. Also if there was any concrete (real) reception issue due to 1WTC as soon as the problem happened more of us would be ranting and raving on this forum. There are many causes for reception issues but to all of a sudden blame something that has been happening for years on 1WTC is without merit.


By the way there is tremendous SOLAR activity now and with the moon reflecting it on to the earth at night don't count out the moon as causing his issues.....you get my point.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23349824
> 
> 
> Just saw a commercial on FOX
> 
> Instructs anyone that watches tv with an antenna to rescan on Memorial Day to get Movies on 5.2


Well if you have a dtvpal dvr (dishpal) Or one of the $20 program boxes offered by dish. Then no need to rescan. It finds it automatically. Nice that it is coming on Monday


----------



## Kascnef82

With movies coming out on monday will foxs hd signal be affected?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23351987
> 
> 
> With movies coming out on monday will foxs hd signal be affected?


well it has been reported that Movies will be in hd. So I would say the main channel will be affected somewhat.


----------



## dvdchance

Is their a schedule anywhere for this channel?


----------



## Mr.H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23352191
> 
> 
> Is their a schedule anywhere for this channel?


 http://www.moviestvnetwork.com/schedule.php


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.H*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23353319
> 
> http://www.moviestvnetwork.com/schedule.php


Hymmm it says in NY it will be on 5.2 and not 5.3


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16560#post_23343058
> 
> 
> The WNYW New York .2 or .3 sub-channel is now an active stream with no audio or video content. It is HD with dynamic aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Movies!* on virtual channel 5-2. Language is English. Time and program guide information are accurate. _Movies! Channel Coming Soon_ appears as the current program, "No Description" is the subject. It is a 3-hour looping program beginning daily at 12:00AM.
> 
> 
> Additionally, Fox has relabeled the PSIP channel names of the alternate SD simulcasts on both channels 44 and 38. Channel 44-4 (Virtual Channel 9-2) is now *WWOR-SD* and Channel 38-4 (Virtual Channel 5-2) is now *WNYW-SD*.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23352046
> 
> 
> well it has been reported that Movies will be in hd. So I would say the main channel will be affected somewhat.



UPDATE: There is now programming on WNYW, virtual channel 5-2. It is a looping block of promos advertising the premiere of *Movies!* on Memorial Day. Technically, everything is the same as I described a few days ago, but with one major exception: The channel is now SD with static aspect-ratio.


From the promos, it appears that *Movies!* will offer a diverse array of movies, both monochromatic and color, of all genres, some well-known and others obscure, produced from the early 1950s through the late 1990s. I expect the station to be comparable to *this* (which should come as no surprise considering Weigel Broadcasting owns 50% of this new operation), but with a slightly more serious tone. The production value of this looping block is exceptionally good, which bodes very well for the expected on-air presentation. One promo boasts the free aspect of the subchannel, saying: "You shouldn't have to pay extra for good movies"


The channel will break from it's movie schedule every Saturday between 10AM and 1PM for mandatory E/I programming.

*Movies!* will officially begin Memorial Day, Monday, May 27, 2013 at 8AM EDT./PDT. with the movie "Take a Hard Ride". The full schedule for that day can be found here: *Movies!* May 27, 2013 Schedule


----------



## mikepier

I saw the promo also. It appears to be a 4:3 picture with the image "squeezed". If I hit the "wide" aspect ratio on my remote, it looks normal. I hope it will not be like this on a permanent basis.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikepier*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23354607
> 
> 
> I saw the promo also. It appears to be a 4:3 picture with the image "squeezed". If I hit the "wide" aspect ratio on my remote, it looks normal. I hope it will not be like this on a permanent basis.


Hmmm.... that's interesting, because when I attempted the same operation using ZOOM, I got the message "Aspect-Ratio cannot be changed on this channel". This is why I reported the aspect-ratio as now being "static". Prior to this change, it was dynamic and comparable to the setup Comcast uses with *Cozi TV*.


I am not optimistic that this will be changing, because I have checked and can confirm that the Los Angeles and Chicago affiliates of *Movies!* are rebroadcasting with the same specifications as WNYW. However, I hope this will eventually change for the better.


I REALLY wish Fox would abandon this redundant reciprocal simulcast policy, which I think is technically the reason they are being so conservative (no political pun intended







) with their broadcast TV bandwidth. Is it really too unreasonable to expect cable operators to buy and install equipment to downconvert HD signals for the benefit of their SD subscribers? I think the major cable operators have some form of positive cash flow, despite their contrary cries to the government...


----------



## Trip in VA

I think it has more to do with the signals not covering the same areas. WNYW gets chopped off to the south by WMCN, and WWOR gets hit to the northeast by adjacent channel WCTX.


- Trip


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23351070
> 
> 
> Simply unfounded conjecture. T-MAX has had problems right along with MY9 way before the 1 WTC was even planned. He has posted and lamented many times on this forum about abrupt changes in his reception for no apparent reason and the need to make changes to his antennas. He has a very strange and unique situation that keeps recurring.



I'd have to check but I don't think I ever had the kind of problem I experienced last May (total loss of effective MY9 signal at my #1 antenna location). It was only when retiredengineer suggested that the then-state of 1WTC construction, having reached a near-completion height, might be effecting my reception, and that moving my antenna might help, that I tried moving the antenna. That resulted in good reception at my #2 position, which continued through September. Reception at the #1 position continued to be nil.


Keep in mind that I am located near the Bridgewater Mall, making 1WTC effectively in my line of sight with the Empire State building.



> Quote:
> Also if there was any concrete (real) reception issue due to 1WTC as soon as the problem happened more of us would be ranting and raving on this forum.



As I say, I'm near the Bridgewater Mall. You are in Randolph with an entirely different line of sight to ESB than mine. It makes logical sense to me that any 1WTC effect would impact me more than you. Also keep in mind that my "basic" MY9 reception has always been problematic, as your post pointed out. It's always been right on the edge of reception and thus anything that might have an adverse effect is likely to make all the difference in the world to me. Solid 84% for me gives quite good reception, as long as it's SOLID. Reasonably solid 85% gives essentially issue-free reception. Solid 83% gives me basically nothing. So there's a very narrow range for me and anything that knocks me down below 84%, or even at an iffy 84%, is gonna make me "rant and rave," as you say. Remove that adverse factor and get me to a reasonably steady 84% to 85% and I'll be happy.




> Quote:
> There are many causes for reception issues but to all of a sudden blame something that has been happening for years on 1WTC is without merit.



Again, location location location.


> Quote:
> By the way there is tremendous SOLAR activity now and with the moon reflecting it on to the earth at night don't count out the moon as causing his issues.....you get my point.



Again, given the sensitivity of my MY9 reception, due to my particular location and my "very strange and unique situation" (your term, and one with which I agree), I'd say that anything that has even a small adverse effect is noticed by me. Indeed, planes flying overhead can give me anything from some glitches to a loss of signal.


If I had, say, 86% or 87%, I probably wouldn't even notice these adverse factors (like the planes). My Philly reception is basically above 90% for all stations, and mostly in the mid-to-high 90's, so I hardly ever see any glitches from Philly, which is where I get all of my OTA signals and do all of my watching unless there's a MY9 (or ch 11) ballgame. Which, in fact, is the case for Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. Two Yankees-Mets games on ch 11, and one on ch 9.


Now, as to this May's situation, it makes logical sense to me that since construction on 1WTC continued on since last May, taking us that much closer to completion of construction, any effect 1WTC may have had on me last year might very well be very different this year. For one thing, I don't think there was any "skin" on the upper floors of the building last May. The skin on those floors now could have an entirely different effect on my reception this year. So, to me, that could well account for the fact that this May I have no reception at the #2 location, and pretty good reception at the #1 location.


Basically the exact reverse of last year's reception situation.


BTW, Friday's game reception was very problematic. It was jumping all around and did drop to zero at times, but also did jump up to 85%, if only for a second or 2. But it spent most of the time around 83% to 84%, and mostly at 84%. So it was pretty annoying reception but I was still able to watch the game and see most of it. I attribute the poor reception to the rather poor weather conditions and perhaps other factors which likely are more in the nature of temporary.


But time will tell.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23356665
> 
> 
> I think it has more to do with the signals not covering the same areas. WNYW gets chopped off to the south by WMCN, and WWOR gets hit to the northeast by adjacent channel WCTX.- Trip



Trip -


I have a pretty strong signal from WLVT in Bethlehem, PA (RF 39), which is located essentially directly west of me. Do you think that this might be effecting my MY9 (RF 38) reception?


When I'm turned toward NYC, I'm virtually 180° from my usual orientation toward Philly. And at my Philly orientation, I get good WLVT reception.


Which means that when I'm pointed toward NYC (to get MY9), my antenna is essentially at the same orientation for WLVT as when I'm pointed toward Philly. That is to say, WLVT shouldn't care whether the antenna is pointed north rather than south. WLVT is still basically directly west either way.


I'll have to try to see if I'm getting WLVT the next time I point toward NYC, which will be tomorrow.


I also have WBPH @ RF 9 which is directly west of me and is even stronger than WLVT. My other Philly / Trenton RF's are 6,12,17,22,25,26,27,29,31,32,34,35,42,43


----------



## keyboard21

Is the FOX MOVIES! channel active?


----------



## Kascnef82

Not on fios....


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16590#post_23360573
> 
> 
> Is the FOX MOVIES! channel active?



Yes it is active.


The picture is SD widescreen, so on an HDTV it has bars surrounding all 4 sides of it. Not very attractive to watch.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23360581
> 
> 
> Not on fios....



Your posting in the wrong forum. This is OTA only.


----------



## AntAltMike

Movies! is running half an hour ahead of the website schedule. Michael Shane: Private detective began atat 1:55 PM, even though their website said it woould be starting at 2:25 PM.


----------



## reddice

It would be a waste putting a antenna mask on the new 1WTC and not broadcasting anything off of it. Right now the ESB antenna mask is overloaded also the stations pay big rents on there.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23360713
> 
> 
> Yes it is active.
> 
> 
> The picture is SD widescreen, so on an HDTV it has bars surrounding all 4 sides of it. Not very attractive to watch.



I guess they (Network execs and engineers) think that the people who watch TV with an antenna are not up to speed with technology and are using CRT Analog TVS.


To watch these movies on a 55 inch LED TV is painful. However we would all be complaining if the PQ of the main channel was degraded to give the subchannel more bandwith for better PQ. WABC gets hammered for having better PQ for livewell 7.2. Its also on 7.3 480i.. Oh well.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23361327
> 
> 
> It would be a waste putting a antenna mask on the new 1WTC and not broadcasting anything off of it. Right now the ESB antenna mask is overloaded also the stations pay big rents on there.


stations are taking a wait and see attitude towards moving to WTC. took them years and millions of dollars to get settled into ESB, they are in no rush to move again for little to no benefit. do count on most or all stations to maintain a main site be it ESB or WTC and a backup site such as 4TS, Trump, Citicorp, New Jersey or wherever.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23360713
> 
> 
> Yes it is active. The picture is SD widescreen, so on an HDTV it has bars surrounding all 4 sides of it. Not very attractive to watch.



The PQ on Philly FOX's version (WTXF ch 29.2) ain't half bad at all. Far superior to ThisTV on WPHL ch 17.3. I'm thinking I will enjoy some of the movies on this new channel. In fact, I'm watching the current movie (Down to the Sea in Ships) and enjoying it very much. I'd never seen this 1949 movie before and may watch the whole thing when it's on again (can't do so now)


Also, as an aside, I tuned in yesterday afternoon and it looked to me like they were not showing what was on the schedule at the website. (?). Looks like the schedule matches the programming today, tho'


BTW, my ch 11 reception of the Yankees-Mets game last night was very good indeed. Turns out that my ch 11 reception appears better than my MY9 reception. I tuned the position specifically for ch 11 last night and it's just a bit different than the MY9 position.


This is at my #1 antenna location. Again, this represents a very different situation than I had last year (when I had virtually no NYC reception at this location).


They showed a shot of the NY skyline during the game and it looked like the Freedom Tower (1WTC) was essentially completed, if only on the outside.


----------



## Kascnef82

Abc 7 has the worst pq and aq of any broadcast network. Nbc is superb.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23364327
> 
> 
> Abc 7 has the worst pq and aq of any broadcast network. Nbc is superb.



3 sub channels versus 2. That has an impact.


----------



## Kascnef82

What i like about fox is how they preserve the hd feed bit by bit....it's good for filmed content but bad for sports


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23360713
> 
> 
> Yes it is active. The picture is SD widescreen, so on an HDTV it has bars surrounding all 4 sides of it. Not very attractive to watch.



I just switched it on again and my picture for the current movie (Emperor of the North Pole) is regular 16x9 HD format. Not saying it's HD, but the PQ is quite good (as I said before, MUCH better than ThisTV, which is generally so poor that ya just can't watch it).


The prior movie, being a 1949 movie, had the black bars all around. That's to be expected. But this 1973 flick isn't being shown in that format. So I'd expect any 'recent' movies to be like this one, and that suits me just fine.


If they don't mess around with this subchannel later on, I'm going to enjoy it.


----------



## Kascnef82

Is the audio for movies 2.0?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23364587
> 
> 
> 3 sub channels versus 2. That has an impact.



You mean 3 channels, not 3 subchannels. Although, technically you are correct since any time you have a subchannel, even the main channel can then be considered a subchannel.


But as to your point, I'll note that my PhillyThisTV subchannel is part of WPHL's four (4) channels (or subchannels). There's the main channel (MY17), AntennaTV, ThisTV and Tango Traffic.


No wonder ThisTV's PQ kinda sucks bigtime.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23364709
> 
> 
> I just switched it on again and my picture for the current movie (Emperor of the North Pole) is regular 16x9 HD format. . . .



I note that the Wikipedia entry for WTXF (Philly FOX) has all three channels (subchannels?) with an aspect ratio of 16:9.


The Wikipedia page for WNYW also has its *Movies!* subchannel at 480i video and 16:9 aspect ratio, same as WTXF.


Edit: If the above question was for me, I can't comment on the audio for my Philly *Movies!* channel. Not even sure what 2.0 audio is.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23364887
> 
> 
> You mean 3 channels, not 3 subchannels. Although, technically you are correct since any time you have a subchannel, even the main channel can then be considered a subchannel.
> 
> 
> But as to your point, I'll note that my PhillyThisTV subchannel is part of WPHL's four (4) channels (or subchannels). There's the main channel (MY17), AntennaTV, ThisTV and Tango Traffic.
> 
> 
> No wonder ThisTV's PQ kinda sucks bigtime.



Yeah I guess I should have said 4.1 and 4.2 versus 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3. Or NBC has 1 subchannel and WABC has 2. I think you got the point though.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23369183
> 
> 
> Yeah I guess I should have said 4.1 and 4.2 versus 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3. Or NBC has 1 subchannel and WABC has 2. I think you got the point though.



Strange that ABC continues to carry duplicate programming on 7.2 and 7.3. The same is true on my Philly ABC ch 6. I assume there's some benefit to ABC in doing so.


I have 2 Philly stations that have 5 channels / subchannels. WGTW, ch 48, which is "a Trinity Broadcasting Network-owned and operated television station for Philadelphia," and ch 35, WYBE, which is "an independent, non-commercial educational (NCE) public television station."


Both descriptions come from Wikipedia.


----------



## dave73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23369559
> 
> 
> Strange that ABC continues to carry duplicate programming on 7.2 and 7.3. The same is true on my Philly ABC ch 6. I assume there's some benefit to ABC in doing so.



ABC O&O stations are duplicating their .2 on .3 channels, because they claim it allow cable companies to offer Livewell Network in 4:3, without it having to be converted from 16:9 to 4:3. It's stupid, but ABC wants to offer it that way. I don't know how many other stations around the country offer a 4:3 simulcast on a subchannel (whether from another subchannel that's in 16:9, or from the main channel. I know in Chicago, PBS station WYCC is one station that has a 4:3 simulcast of 20.1 on 20.2. WFXT also has a 4:3 simulcast of 60.1 on 60.2, though I hear that might end.


----------



## AloEuro

Some time when I punch in EP Program Guide key on subs like 47- 2, 68 -2 or 5-2 sub my converter box shuts off ,it gives only green screen, then reboots to another channel, this info is for other converter box users if they had the same problem, they are not alone


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16600_100#post_23359037
> 
> 
> Trip -
> 
> 
> I have a pretty strong signal from WLVT in Bethlehem, PA (RF 39), which is located essentially directly west of me. Do you think that this might be effecting my MY9 (RF 38) reception?
> 
> 
> When I'm turned toward NYC, I'm virtually 180° from my usual orientation toward Philly. And at my Philly orientation, I get good WLVT reception.
> 
> 
> Which means that when I'm pointed toward NYC (to get MY9), my antenna is essentially at the same orientation for WLVT as when I'm pointed toward Philly. That is to say, WLVT shouldn't care whether the antenna is pointed north rather than south. WLVT is still basically directly west either way.
> 
> 
> I'll have to try to see if I'm getting WLVT the next time I point toward NYC, which will be tomorrow.
> 
> 
> I also have WBPH @ RF 9 which is directly west of me and is even stronger than WLVT. My other Philly / Trenton RF's are 6,12,17,22,25,26,27,29,31,32,34,35,42,43



It's possible, but I suspect it's unlikely. Most tuners can handle an adjacent signal about 30 dB stronger than the desired station. WLVT would have to be much, much stronger than WWOR to cause such interference.


- Trip


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23374359
> 
> 
> It's possible, but I suspect it's unlikely. Most tuners can handle an adjacent signal about 30 dB stronger than the desired station. WLVT would have to be much, much stronger than WWOR to cause such interference.
> 
> 
> - Trip


That 30 dB ratio would be true only if there were no multipath degradation at the desired channel.


----------



## AloEuro

The 5-2 Movies in the morning hours shows some good b/w criminal movies the young people used to color may have never seen, also color movies which may not have been success rather box office flop worth to watch. now the 5-2 compete with 4-2 Cozi and 9-3 and 11-2,3 and 31-1,3 or the Spanish 68 and 47 or 13-3 or FoxMundo


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23364709
> 
> 
> I just switched it on again and my picture for the current movie (Emperor of the North Pole) is regular 16x9 HD format. Not saying it's HD, but the PQ is quite good (as I said before, MUCH better than ThisTV, which is generally so poor that ya just can't watch it).



You must have your TV set to auto zoom since 5.2 is broadcast at 480i SD 4:3


----------



## Kascnef82

On main programming on wabc tv, the abc logo is gold rather than silver as an on screen bug, this can be annoying in hd. Back in 2003 through 2007 the abchd bug appeared.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23376089
> 
> 
> . . . 5.2 is broadcast at 480i SD 4:3



Not according to Wikipedia. They have it at aspect ratio = 16:9.


Also, I'm also not watching 5.2. I'm watching WTXF 29.2 (not that it matters).


I already said all this in my post #16635, which is just 3 down from the one you quoted.




> Quote:
> You must have your TV set to auto zoom . . .



No, I'm watching it through a retired VOOM set top box to a Sony KV-27HS420 (see my footer below)


__________________

Sony KV-27HS420

SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))

RS Model VU-190 XR antenna

Getting 53 strong channels/subchannels out of the Roxborough farm / Trenton / Allentown (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)


----------



## nyctveng

Yeah it does matter that you're watching in a Philly station. Just because wiki says its movies on WNYW is 16:9 doesn't mean it is. Slicondust proves it's at 4:3 now but it may gave been 16:9 before.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23380961
> 
> 
> Not according to Wikipedia. They have it at aspect ratio = 16:9.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm also not watching 5.2. I'm watching WTXF 29.2 (not that it matters).
> 
> 
> I already said all this in my post #16635, which is just 3 down from the one you quoted.
> 
> No, I'm watching it through a retired VOOM set top box to a Sony KV-27HS420 (see my footer below)
> 
> 
> __________________
> 
> Sony KV-27HS420
> 
> SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))
> 
> RS Model VU-190 XR antenna
> 
> Getting 53 strong channels/subchannels out of the Roxborough farm / Trenton / Allentown (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23381873
> 
> 
> Yeah it does matter that you're watching in a Philly station. Just because wiki says its movies on WNYW is 16:9 doesn't mean it is. Slicondust proves it's at 4:3 now but it may gave been 16:9 before.



"before"?


What do you mean by "before"?


If you mean when it was showing an older movie or a commercial, then I can understand that it would be 4:3. But _The Rose_ came on at 5:25 PM and I'm watching it now on WTXF ch 29.2 out of Philly and I have 16:9 format. Are you saying that you have _The Rose_ on WNYW ch 5.2 in 4:3 format?


I find it hard to believe that Philly Fox would carry it in 16:9 and NYC Fox wouldn't.


It's ~5:37 PM as I post this.


----------



## nyctveng

before as in sometime between launch and when the incorrect wiki entry made. Just because WTXF and WNYW are both Fox O&O doesn't mean they do things the same. See for yourself

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:19107 
http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:10001 




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23383090
> 
> 
> "before"?
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "before"?
> 
> 
> If you mean when it was showing an older movie or a commercial, then I can understand that it would be 4:3. But _The Rose_ came on at 5:25 PM and I'm watching it now on WTXF ch 29.2 out of Philly and I have 16:9 format. Are you saying that you have _The Rose_ on WNYW ch 5.2 in 4:3 format?
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe that Philly Fox would carry it in 16:9 and NYC Fox wouldn't.
> 
> 
> It's ~5:37 PM as I post this.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23365006
> 
> 
> I note that the Wikipedia entry for WTXF (Philly FOX) has all three channels (subchannels?) with an aspect ratio of 16:9.
> 
> 
> The Wikipedia page for WNYW also has its *Movies!* subchannel at 480i video and 16:9 aspect ratio, same as WTXF.
> 
> 
> Edit: If the above question was for me, I can't comment on the audio for my Philly *Movies!* channel. Not even sure what 2.0 audio is.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23380961
> 
> 
> Not according to Wikipedia. They have it at aspect ratio = 16:9.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm also not watching 5.2. I'm watching WTXF 29.2 (not that it matters).





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23381873
> 
> 
> Yeah it does matter that you're watching in a Philly station. Just because wiki says its movies on WNYW is 16:9 doesn't mean it is. Slicondust proves it's at 4:3 now but it may gave been 16:9 before.


nyctveng is exactly right with this. Silicondust proves the aspect-ratio on WNYW virtual channel 5-2 to be 4:3, and this is further confirmed because the aspect-ratio cannot be changed on this subchannel.


Silicondust also proves that the aspect-ratio on WTXF-TV virtual channel 29-2 is set to 16:9.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23383090
> 
> 
> "before"?
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "before"?
> 
> 
> If you mean when it was showing an older movie or a commercial, then I can understand that it would be 4:3. But _The Rose_ came on at 5:25 PM and I'm watching it now on WTXF ch 29.2 out of Philly and I have 16:9 format. Are you saying that you have _The Rose_ on WNYW ch 5.2 in 4:3 format?
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe that Philly Fox would carry it in 16:9 and NYC Fox wouldn't.
> 
> 
> It's ~5:37 PM as I post this.


BELIEVE IT!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23383743
> 
> 
> before as in sometime between launch and when the incorrect wiki entry made. Just because WTXF and WNYW are both Fox O&O doesn't mean they do things the same. See for yourself
> 
> http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:19107
> http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:10001


The Wikipedia entry was not entered incorrectly. It is true that when the WNYW subchannel was first activated, it was transmitting with dynamic 16:9 aspect-ratio. In fact, this was reported *HERE* . Once the *Movies!* feed was launched, the aspect-ratio was changed to static 4:3. The Wikipedia entry needs to be updated to reflect the correct aspect-ratio. Better still, WNYW should modify the aspect-ratio to reflect the Wikipedia entry


----------



## LenL

Reminds me of MY9 News not so long a go. MY9 programming would be 16x9 and when the news came on it would revert to 4x3. Commercials during the news would go back to 16x9.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16620#post_23384527
> 
> 
> . . . The Wikipedia entry was not entered incorrectly. It is true that when the WNYW subchannel was first activated, it was transmitting with dynamic 16:9 aspect-ratio. In fact, this was reported *HERE* . Once the *Movies!* feed was launched, the aspect-ratio was changed to static 4:3. The Wikipedia entry needs to be updated to reflect the correct aspect-ratio. . . .



As I said, "according to Wikipedia."



> Quote:
> BELIEVE IT!.



As the saying goes, "Seeing is believing."


I can't get WNYW, so I wouldn't know. That's why I asked nyctveng to confirm what he was seeing (which I don't think he did).


And I'm sticking to my statement that it shouldn't matter. You've confirmed that WNYW's *Movies!* was originally intended to be broadcast in 16:9, and it seems you also confirmed that it was in 16:9 at the outset (without content). While I'm painfully aware that WTXF and WNYW can differ, I'd be surprised if WNYW actually chose to broadcast its movie channel in 4:3. I'm thinking it's an error or perhaps a temporary situation.


Has anyone checked with them?


----------



## NoReDist

It's up to the station and there is plenty of variety out there. I don't think its an error

For instance:

Movies! is set to 4:3 in New York, Memphis & Los Angeles

Movies! is set to 16:9 on Philly, DC, Chicago & Houston.


(AFD runs the gamut from 8, center and sometimes not present)


----------



## Aero 1

I contacted the VP of Engineering of WNYW/WWOR about MundoFox on 9-3 being squished from a 16:9 ratio to a 4:3, if anyone here cares, he says that its coming from the source and they have notified Mundofox about the error in aspect ratio for a while now and will tell them about my email in the hopes that they will move faster on a fix if they see customer complaints.


Also, i asked him about Movies! since all of you are arguing and he says and I quote:


> Quote:
> The movies on 5.2 will come to you however they are sent to us. Some should be 4:3 and some 16:9. Hopefully there aren’t any “squeezed” ones here too. We’ll keep an eye on that since it is new to us as well.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23386310
> 
> 
> I contacted the VP of Engineering of WNYW/WWOR about MundoFox on 9-3 being squished from a 16:9 ratio to a 4:3, if anyone here cares, he says that its coming from the source and they have notified Mundofox about the error in aspect ratio for a while now and will tell them about my email in the hopes that they will move faster on a fix if they see customer complaints.
> 
> 
> Also, i asked him about Movies! since all of you are arguing and he says and I quote:
> 
> _The movies on 5.2 will come to you however they are sent to us. Some should be 4:3 and some 16:9. Hopefully there aren’t any “squeezed” ones here too. We’ll keep an eye on that since it is new to us as well_.



Aye carumba !!


First of all, I'm not arguing with anybody.


Second of all, what he told you about *Movies!* sounds correct to me because that's what I'm seeing on WTXF ch 29.2 (Philly Fox). But if that were true of the NYC *Movies!* channel, then that doesn't seem to comport with what the other guys I'm "arguing" with are saying unless your NYC channel is getting a different feed than my Philly channel, which is entirely possible and probably true.


But it does match what Wikipedia has for your NYC *Movies!* channel (heh heh).










It seems that he's "blaming" the 4:3 on the feed from *Movies!*, which in turn implies that he'd like to see it be 16:9, which in turn implies that "hey, we're not changing it to 4:3."


I wonder if that's really true.


Thirdly, I'm not so sure I'd just accept what he's telling you about MundoFox (that its coming from the source in 4:3). Basically, he's playing the same "blame game" as with *Movies!* (it's not us, it's them).


Since according to Wikipedia (there I go again), "On May 17, 2013, Fox began carrying MundoFox, via the primary channel of WPXO-LD East Orange (NJ)," I'd think you could call or email WPXO yourself and find out how they are feeding WWOR.


I do note that my WTXF is getting a different feed for my MundoFox (simulcast of WPSJ-CD) than your NYC channel (primary channel of WPXO-LD)


Now, you said that MundoFox is on 9-3. I think it's actually on 9-4, as per both Wikipedia and silicon.com. So I assume that was just a typo? I haven't rescanned NYC lately, so I don't yet have MundoFox showing up on 9-4.


As for the *Movies!* question (debate?), perhaps it would be helpful to know where your NYC channel is getting its feed, and also where my Philly channel is getting its feed.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoReDist*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23386175
> 
> 
> It's up to the station and there is plenty of variety out there. I don't think its an error
> 
> For instance:
> 
> Movies! is set to 4:3 in New York, Memphis & Los Angeles
> 
> Movies! is set to 16:9 on Philly, DC, Chicago & Houston.
> 
> 
> (AFD runs the gamut from 8, center and sometimes not present)



What do you mean by "is set to"?


----------



## NoReDist

I meant the "header in the video stream that they are airing declares the aspect ratio of the video to be". I wasn't implying that any human consciously SET any configuration to be that way.


Here's what they are transmitting currently::


MundoFOX NewYork:

Resolution 704 x 480i

MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0


Movies! NewYork:

Resolution 720 x 480i

MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0


Movies! Phila:

Resolution 544 x 480i

MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0

AFD descriptor: 1000 (Active format is the same as the coded frame)


Movies! Chicago:

Resolution 544 x 480i

MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0


Movies! Los Angeles:

Resolution 544 x 480i

MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0

AFD descriptor: 1000 (Active format is the same as the coded frame)


Movies! Houston:

Resolution 704 x 480i

MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0


Movies! Memphis:

Resolution 544 x 480i

MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0

AFD descriptor: 1001 (4:3 (center)


----------



## nyctveng

WPXO carries MundoFox in HD on 34-1 and simulcasts it in SD on 34.3. The 34.3 looks exactly the same as what is on 9.3.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23386310
> 
> 
> I contacted the VP of Engineering of WNYW/WWOR about MundoFox on 9-3 being squished from a 16:9 ratio to a 4:3, if anyone here cares, he says that its coming from the source and they have notified Mundofox about the error in aspect ratio for a while now and will tell them about my email in the hopes that they will move faster on a fix if they see customer complaints.
> 
> 
> Also, i asked him about Movies! since all of you are arguing and he says and I quote:


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23387311
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "is set to"?



I can assure u all Fox stations around the country get the same feed. At the local station level they may downconvert it and set it to 4:3 cropped, 4:3 letterbox, 16:9 anamorphic, etc. It then goes into a mux to combine with their primary HD channel and whatever elsemthey may be carrying. Its also up to the local station to set bitrate for each of their primary and sub channels. So for example WTXF may give Movies 4mbps of bandwith while WNYW gives it 3mbps.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Aero 1, thank you for contacting the FOX New York engineer and for reporting back to us his reply. I'm sure I speak for many here at the New York AVS Forum when I extend my appreciation for your time and the information.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23386310
> 
> 
> I contacted the VP of Engineering of WNYW/WWOR about MundoFox on 9-3 being squished from a 16:9 ratio to a 4:3, if anyone here cares, he says that its coming from the source and they have notified Mundofox about the error in aspect ratio for a while now and will tell them about my email in the hopes that they will move faster on a fix if they see customer complaints.
> 
> 
> Also, i asked him about Movies! since all of you are arguing and he says and I quote:
> 
> _The movies on 5.2 will come to you however they are sent to us. Some should be 4:3 and some 16:9. Hopefully there aren’t any “squeezed” ones here too. We’ll keep an eye on that since it is new to us as well._


Unfortunately, I'm left to conclude that he either didn't understand your questions, doesn't understand what is going on technically, or deliberately gave you misinformation either out of laziness or corporate edict. I base this conclusion on the following subsequent posts:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoReDist*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23387657
> 
> 
> I meant the "header in the video stream that they are airing declares the aspect ratio of the video to be". I wasn't implying that any human consciously SET any configuration to be that way.
> 
> 
> Here's what they are transmitting currently::
> 
> 
> MundoFOX NewYork:
> 
> Resolution 704 x 480i
> 
> MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0
> 
> 
> Movies! NewYork:
> 
> Resolution 720 x 480i
> 
> MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0
> 
> 
> Movies! Phila:
> 
> Resolution 544 x 480i
> 
> MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0
> 
> AFD descriptor: 1000 (Active format is the same as the coded frame)
> 
> 
> Movies! Chicago:
> 
> Resolution 544 x 480i
> 
> MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0
> 
> 
> Movies! Los Angeles:
> 
> Resolution 544 x 480i
> 
> MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0
> 
> AFD descriptor: 1000 (Active format is the same as the coded frame)
> 
> 
> Movies! Houston:
> 
> Resolution 704 x 480i
> 
> MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 16:9 Chroma Format 4:2:0
> 
> 
> Movies! Memphis:
> 
> Resolution 544 x 480i
> 
> MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0
> 
> AFD descriptor: 1001 (4:3 (center)


These TSReadings confirm both the *MundoFox* program on WWOR-TV and the *Movies!* program on WNYW are being transmitted with Aspect Ratio 4:3. This proves the Fox New York VP of Engineering was absolutely wrong.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23387880
> 
> 
> I can assure u all Fox stations around the country get the same feed. At the local station level they may downconvert it and set it to 4:3 cropped, 4:3 letterbox, 16:9 anamorphic, etc. It then goes into a mux to combine with their primary HD channel and whatever else they may be carrying. Its also up to the local station to set bitrate for each of their primary and sub channels. So for example WTXF may give Movies 4mbps of bandwith while WNYW gives it 3mbps.


So any debate about this specific issue on this forum ends here. It is essentially confirmed that the issue is at the local station.


----------



## dm145

Maybe the "VP" means that movies will be shown 4:3 with side bars or window boxed

Either way still only 480i SD 4:3


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoReDist*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23387657
> 
> 
> I meant the "header in the video stream that they are airing declares the aspect ratio of the video to be". I wasn't implying that any human consciously SET any configuration to be that way.
> 
> 
> Here's what they are transmitting currently: . . ..



I don't think I quite understand your explanation, but that's okay.


You said "I wasn't implying that any human consciously SET any configuration to be that way."


nyctveng said that he assures us that "all Fox stations around the country get the same feed."


You referred to "the video stream that they are airing" and also said "Here's what they are transmitting currently ...."


So, since you referred to "the video stream that they are airing" and "what they are transmitting," it seems that the information that you posted refers to what those stations are airing and transmitting, and not to what they are being fed.


And since nyctveng seems sure that all Fox stations are getting the same feed, it would therefore necessarily seem that somebody at those stations that are broadcasting Movies! in 4:3 aspect ratio is "setting" the broadcast to 4:3.


Because it's coming in at 16:9, according to nyctveng.


I think that Giacomo would agree with that notion ("It is essentially confirmed that the issue is at the local station.")


Now whether someone is actually "setting" the video to 4:3, or their equipment is doing it, or whatever else is responsible, it seems clear at this point that the 4:3 aspect ratio is a function of something at the particular station(s), and not with the feed they are getting.


Does that sound about right?


I guess the question I'd have is why they would want to broadcast in 4:3 rather than 16:9. Does that represent some kind of advantage to them?


----------



## nyctveng

WLIW will be going HD by end of summer


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23429203
> 
> 
> WLIW will be going HD by end of summer



Too bad I can't get it. I really want create and world.


----------



## rothe

Yay! I can actually receive this, and I'm as far away as Ocean Grove, NJ. It'll be nice to have another HD source for PBS programming.


----------



## rothe

Is there any interest among the forum membership in renting a spectrum analyzer? I have a Sencore 1454 that is calibrated and spends most of it's time sitting in a box, and every time I read about someone whining about what's happening to their received signal, I keep thinking that this device could really help them out.


Send me a private message if you're interested.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23437785
> 
> 
> Is there any interest among the forum membership in renting a spectrum analyzer? I have a Sencore 1454 that is calibrated and spends most of it's time sitting in a box, and every time I read about someone whining about what's happening to their received signal, I keep thinking that this device could really help them out.
> 
> 
> Send me a private message if you're interested.



Great offer! Right now I am not having any issues with OTA that would make it worthwhile for me to check out what is happening at my location. However if I were T-Max I would certainly consider your offer.


----------



## AloEuro

CBS 2-2 at bottom right corner of split screen puts time clock and then weather degree, however on small 20inch. screen the second digit is not seen, every sub channel gives time but not weather degree, if CBS 2-2 could only reverse the presentation and put first weather degree and then time clock then it would be o.k., NBC 4-2 Cozi sometime puts first weather degree then time clock


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23444235
> 
> 
> ...however on small 20inch. screen the second digit is not seen



Just checked this myself, and it displays fine on all of my equipment.


If you're using a CRT or projector TV, then I'll recommend that you check your overscan settings. If you're using any type of flat-panel (LCD, LED or plasma), then check your zoom settings. The problem that you're having is specific to your display device, and is not caused by the broadcaster's screen layout.


----------



## Kascnef82

Seems that wpix censors forgot to blur the s word in a newscast. Its on YouTube. Their news division sucks as well as their pq and aq


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23456953
> 
> 
> Seems that wpix censors forgot to blur the s word in a newscast. Its on YouTube. Their news division sucks as well as their pq and aq



All you seem to do is complain about pq. If its not one station its another. Perhaps its time you get a decent TV? Trade in that black and white for a new LED HD TV


----------



## AvidHiker

Agreed. These posts may say more about the pq of a budget LCD than anything else. Not sure how you are even seeing such _apparently_ large differences in pq on a 42 inch Vizio (presumption based on past posts), but there's no question that these TVs are known to be lacking in both the tuner and video processing departments.


Based on many threads here, and IME, most of the top-tier flat screen manufacturers have significantly better OTA performance and their processing likely helps to even out the pq differences from channel to channel. I've been watching exclusively OTA on a 59 inch Samsung PDP for the past 2 years and would be unable to make such blanket statements WRT the overall pq of the major networks - I simply don't think these statements hold true for all programming (which can be sourced and processed differently from program to program, not to mention channel to channel!). Sure, sometimes I find some programs obviously lacking in pq, but I don't usually find it justifiable to point fingers at the particular channel (exception probably MY9, but I rarely watch it).


Audio quality is entirely subjective and such statements are without merit, IMO. I have a fairly high end audio system and I can confidently say that there are no glaring issues with any particular channel. Just enjoy the free service!


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AvidHiker*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23462794
> 
> 
> . . . (exception probably MY9, but I rarely watch it). . . .



Ahhhhhhhhh, finally someone _else_ mentions MY9.


Just kidding.










But seriously, folks ....


Updating my MY9 situation, I'm still getting reception at my #1 position but it's not so hot. It's a pretty steady 84% with some drops down to 83, and I'd like to have a good solid 85% for issue-free viewing.


Still, this is far different from last year when I got nothing at this position and had to move to my #2 position (~ 8 feet away) due to what I (and others) assumed was multipath due to the construction state of 1WTC. I got very good reception there all last year (baseball season).


But this year I'm getting nothing at that position. And almost good enough reception at the original #1 position. And it looks like I have a #3 position just a foot or so back of #1 that will give me 85% (or better?).


So I'd have to say that any multipath issues from last year's 1WTC "state of construction" are no longer present, at least not in the same way they were last year.


Also, my recent speculation that the far distant tree leaves might be having an effect seems to be resolved. That factor doesn't seem to play into the equation.


So I'm thinking I'll establish a new #3 position and that will hopefully give me decent MY9 reception which won't be changing in the future since 1WTC must be almost completed (on the outside) now.


And it would be nice if broadcasters would move their antennas there, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.


BTW, as to PQ, I think my CRT Sony has about the best HD PQ I've seen yet, even from the latest LED sets.


Just sayin'


__________________

Sony KV-27HS420

SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))

RS Model VU-190 XR antenna

Getting 53 strong channels/subchannels out of the Roxborough farm / Trenton / Allentown (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T-Max*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23463383
> 
> 
> Ahhhhhhhhh, finally someone _else_ mentions MY9.
> 
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously, folks ....
> 
> 
> Updating my MY9 situation, I'm still getting reception at my #1 position but it's not so hot. It's a pretty steady 84% with some drops down to 83, and I'd like to have a good solid 85% for issue-free viewing.
> 
> 
> Still, this is far different from last year when I got nothing at this position and had to move to my #2 position (~ 8 feet away) due to what I (and others) assumed was multipath due to the construction state of 1WTC. I got very good reception there all last year (baseball season).
> 
> 
> But this year I'm getting nothing at that position. And almost good enough reception at the original #1 position. And it looks like I have a #3 position just a foot or so back of #1 that will give me 85% (or better?).
> 
> 
> So I'd have to say that any multipath issues from last year's 1WTC "state of construction" are no longer present, at least not in the same way they were last year.
> 
> 
> Also, my recent speculation that the far distant tree leaves might be having an effect seems to be resolved. That factor doesn't seem to play into the equation.
> 
> 
> So I'm thinking I'll establish a new #3 position and that will hopefully give me decent MY9 reception which won't be changing in the future since 1WTC must be almost completed (on the outside) now.
> 
> 
> And it would be nice if broadcasters would move their antennas there, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
> 
> 
> BTW, as to PQ, I think my CRT Sony has about the best HD PQ I've seen yet, even from the latest LED sets.
> 
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> 
> __________________
> 
> Sony KV-27HS420
> 
> SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))
> 
> RS Model VU-190 XR antenna
> 
> Getting 53 strong channels/subchannels out of the Roxborough farm / Trenton / Allentown (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)




My mom is still using a Sony CRT Analog TV with an RCA converter box and yes the PQ is quite good all things considered. Sony made great CRT TVS no question.


As for you MY9 issues, I think you need to take advantage of the offer on this forum for test equipment to pin down what may be causing that station's reception issues. You seem to be just about the only one on this forum in NJ having issues with MY9 like you are having. The Yanks are on Tuesday and Friday this week and I hate to see a rabid Yankee fan not able to enjoy the games!


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23464822
> 
> 
> My mom is still using a Sony CRT Analog TV with an RCA converter box and yes the PQ is quite good all things considered. Sony made great CRT TVS no question. . . .



My Sony is actually an HD TV, so its PQ is considerably superior to a "regular" CRT TV, if that's what your mom has. Having said that, I don't actually avail myself of the HD aspect of it. In order to do so I'd have to use the HDMI input. When I do that, the screen and images become smaller than when using one of the the "video" inputs. Because this is a 27" TV, the 16:9 screen size with a video input is about 24". That's a good size for me given the placement of the TV and my viewing distance from it. And the PQ with a video input is better than what I see with most of the HD TVs I've seen, including the Toshiba and Sony that my little lady friend purchased recently (and all the ones I looked at in the stores during that process). So I'm good with the PQ I get even tho' it's not actual HD, and unwilling to go to real HD in exchange for an even smaller screen size and screen images.


Now, I realize that what you see in the stores probably doesn't represent the best PQ you can get, and that's also true of my LLF's TVs because she has cable. So the real test would be to try one of her TVs hooked to my OTA setup and see what that PQ looks like. Somehow I think that's not likely to happen.


The other thing about my CRT Sony is that it's a monster. I forget what the advertised weight is, but it's definitely a two-man TV if you want to move it.



> Quote:
> . . . As for you MY9 issues, I think you need to take advantage of the offer on this forum for test equipment to pin down what may be causing that station's reception issues. You seem to be just about the only one on this forum in NJ having issues with MY9 like you are having. The Yanks are on Tuesday and Friday this week and I hate to see a rabid Yankee fan not able to enjoy the games!




I saw your prior recommendation in this regard but I frankly don't think I need to go quite to that length of analyzing the problem I have. I appear to be in a particularly bad spot for any NYC reception -- even in relation to my general neighborhood. My particular little "spot" appears to be particularly bad. That's according to TV Fool, if I remember correctly.


In any event, I can live with what I get from MY9 as long as it doesn't get any worse than it is now. As I say, I think I have a suitable new spot and if that doesn't work out I can probably live with what I'm getting at spot #1, which seems to improve as the evening goes on and thus I get better reception in the later innings. Still, I'm confident that I can get improved reception in another spot (or otherwise) so I'm not worried about it.


Plus I'm not that much rabid. I enjoyed the run we had from '96 on (and even the '95 season although I was really pissed when we lost to The Tribe in the playoffs) but when Scotty Brosious left, I knew things were changing. He knew it too and I'm sure that's why he left.


Tho' I do want to watch Tuesday and Friday (and Saturday) to see Almonte play. We might have something there. Another Jeter?


Anyway, as to my OTA situation, the good news is that I get excellent reception of Philly / Trenton / Allentown / Bethlehem stations, so I get plenty of OTA TV. I really only have been reporting my MY9 situation because of the possible impact of 1WTC. Apparently, I'm the only guy seeing any effect of it (?) but it does seem that it was responsible for the problem I had last year, and the dramatic change again this year. My house certainly hasn't moved.


If it wasn't 1WTC, then it must have been something else, as yet unknown.


I should add that I'm still not very happy with MY9 (and WNYW ch 5). I can't get 5 at all and my MY9 reception has always been very iffy. Why is that? I get everything else okay, so what's up with these "Fox" stations??

--

Edit: Hmmm. It seems it wasn't The Tribe that beat the Yanks in '95. It was the Mariners. Mis-remembering again, I guess. Maybe I was thinking of the infamous "midges" game?

__________________

Sony KV-27HS420

SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))

RS Model VU-190 XR antenna

Getting 53 strong channels/subchannels out of the Roxborough farm / Trenton / Allentown (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)


----------



## T-Max

Updating my earlier post today, I am now set up at my #1 position and my NYC reception today seems to be unusually good. I have a solid MY9 signal which is a very solid 84-85% (virtually no glitches in the past half hour). And all the rest of my NYC numbers are up as well. Plus I picked up a couple of Philly stations off the back side, which doesn't usually happen. So conditions must be really good today.


Edit: I forgot to mention that I did a rescan and noted that I have four (4) RF 38 channels (which you all know already) one of which is 5-3 WNYW-SD. So this means I do now have ch 5 (tho' only in SD):


9-1 WWOR-DT

5-3 WNYW-SD

9-3 Bounce

9-4 MundoFX


----------



## LenL

Did you enjoy the Yanks last night? Can't help but complain about the announcers who talk about everything but what is happening in the game and on the field. Many times I turn off the audio it gets so annoying. The Mets, FOX and I guess all of them think they have to entertain us and not actually cover the game as we will get bored. I think I learned more about the ACC Big Ten challenge then what was happening on the field.


Even the radio play by play is awful. When they had professionals doing play by play on the radio you could sit in a chair and listen (as I did) and it was like you were at the game or watching on TV. Every movement of the pitcher and batter were described. You knew where every position player was etc.. Now they talk about all kind of nonsense but what is going on.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23468207
> 
> 
> Did you enjoy the Yanks last night? . . . .



Ah, Len


You sound like an old Geezer


Like me


Unfortunately, that's the world we live in today. No more Mel Allen or Red Barber.


Sometimes I have to think "I'm glad I'm old."


But yes, I did enjoy the game. My reception deteriorated after a couple of hours to the point where I adjusted the antenna position slightly and got pretty much solid reception through the end of the game. But then, after the game ended, I lost reception completely. That kept up for probably 20 minutes to a half hour, at which point I shut things down. I was in the next room on the 'puter but would have heard the post game (or news) had reception returned, which it didn't. So I have to thank the OTA gods for allowing me to see the game to the end and the walk-off home run by "Eeech" (phonetic).


And I think I need to investigate what I believe is a better antenna position for MY9.


BTW, I am using my VOOM box for all of my NYC reception. Indeed, I use it for all of my reception, generally speaking. It is far superior to the Samsung box in pulling in stations. The downside is that in some instances it can't discriminate some of the subchannels from the main channel, as is the case with WLVT ch 39 (PBS) out of Bethlehem. Both of the subchannels simply display the same programming as the main channel, tho' the PSIP info displayed is correct (i.e., "Vme" and "Create").


Go figure.


The other problem with the VOOM (which is no longer a problem for me) is that TVGOS causes it to bomb out (reboot). So I couldn't use it to watch either the NYC or Philly CBS stations. But that's no longer a problem since they apparently no longer broadcast TVGOS.


Also BTW, the way I "tune" the VOOM is this: When you have it in the "aim the antenna" mode, it beeps. You enter the RF you're interested in and it will beep according to how reception is for that RF. The beeps change as reception changes. So when reception is nil or virtually nil, it beeps slowly. When reception improves, it beeps more frequently. The significant change for me is at 85%. When it gets to 85%, the beeps increase in frequency. Thus it's easy for me to hear the change when it gets to 85%, which is the magic number for my reception. Once it gets above 90% (or whatever it is), it's just a steady tone (not that I care, I just want a nice steady 85% or above).


This is a nice feature since it allows me move my antenna around and know what's going on with the reception (as long as I can hear the beeps).


In the "aim the antenna" mode, the unit displays the message "Must be at 85 to allow for weather fade." I assume that's why they set it up to change the beeps at that level of reception.


These boxes I have are circa 2005 (maybe older?) and I wouldn't mind getting a newer box with (hopefully) better ability to pull in stations. Then again, I'm fine for all of my Pennsylvania stations as they are all quite strong and it's just the NYC stations that are troublesome.


I have 2 of each of the VOOM and Samsung boxes (in case one blows up) and got them all on ebay for not a lot of $$. That was probably back in 2006 or so since I went OTA sometime in '07 (I think).


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23468207
> 
> 
> . . . Can't help but complain about the announcers who talk about everything but what is happening in the game and on the field. Many times I turn off the audio it gets so annoying. . . .



I realize this is off-topic, but ....


Once, probably not more than a couple of years ago (maybe longer since time flies) I was watching a baseball game and they lost audio in the broadcaster's booth for at least a half inning. So there was no commentary at all during that entire time.


But the really wierd part was that you could hear the sounds of the game. You could hear the crowd and some of the other sounds of the game, just like when you're in the ballpark.


It was GREAT.


I still can't figure what happened and why I could hear the "game sounds" when the booth was obviously out of commission. I guess there was an open mike somewhere in the park.


But I have to say that was the most enjoyable experience I've ever had watching a baseball game on TV. It was just like being at the freaking ballpark. No mind-numbing blather to distract you. Ya just watched what was going on in the game and enjoyed it.


I still wonder if they did it on purpose. Some kind of experiment maybe? They'd never admit it but how could it be that we could still hear the game sounds?


I believe I remember that they tried this once with a football game (I think it was) or for part of the game.


Your solution (turning the sound off) is the next best solution, but imagine what it would be like if you could just shut the booth off and still hear the sounds of the game.


It was indeed sweet.


----------



## LenL

T-Max,


I was watching that game too! Your post reminded me of it and when the sound came back I wished it hadn't because it was much much better not having to listen to a lot of blather, and dumb off topic commentary. Yes just give us a video feed and the sounds of the ballpark. Dump Michael Kay, David Cone etc.


My9 reception was excellent last night.


However I then switched over to PIX for the news and the pq was great but the sound was dropping out from time to time. Anyone have any ideas as to why pq would be fine but audio would drop out for a second or two every few minutes?


----------



## Kascnef82

If disney sells abc...could abc 7 become 1080i


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23470516
> 
> 
> If disney sells abc...could abc 7 become 1080i



Where and how do you come up with these questions?


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23469171
> 
> 
> . . . My9 reception was excellent last night. . . .



If you locate the Bridgewater Commons Mall on a map, you'll see my approximate location (close enough for government work).


If you then also locate the Empire State Building and 1WTC, you'll see that 1WTC is essentially located in a straight line between me and the ESB.


So any multipath (or other adverse) effect that 1WTC might be causing would likely be more of a problem for me than for you.


Having said that, it looks to me like 1WTC is no longer having much, if any, impact on my reception. I seem to be back to where I was prior to May of last year; that is, able to receive MY9 at my #1 antenna location, but with some considerable degree of difficulty in terms of getting satisfactory reception.


Last year I couldn't get it at all at this antenna location. Starting in mid-May, that is.


----------



## AvidHiker

While it's generally fine, I also occasionally have problems with Fox and MY9 reception. I don't have the luxury of a rooftop antenna, but my location in Westfield is only 20 miles out, so I manage to pull pretty much everything in reliably with a C5 from antennas direct that I simply hung out a window that (luckily) faces Manhattan.


Anyway, FYI, T, here's a map with a line connecting the 2 buildings in question. Presumably, your issues relate more to the presence of the Watchung ridge...


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23444544
> 
> 
> Just checked this myself, and it displays fine on all of my equipment.
> 
> 
> If you're using a CRT or projector TV, then I'll recommend that you check your overscan settings. If you're using any type of flat-panel (LCD, LED or plasma), then check your zoom settings. The problem that you're having is specific to your display device, and is not caused by the broadcaster's screen layout.


Thanks for clarification, I have Sony20inch 1996 with converter box using Normal, Zoom, Wide, and Cinema formats, when on 2-2 only Cinema icreases format then can't see clock nor weather, which means my problem is inherent toHD broadcasters sending signal intercepted on my Analog TV as is - good for flat screens, but deficient for Analog TV incapable to adjust to overpowering, superior signal.


----------



## T-Max




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AvidHiker*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23472095
> 
> 
> . . . Presumably, your issues relate more to the presence of the Watchung ridge...



Yes, the Watchung ridge is most definitely a more serious problem than 1WTC. Add to that the fact that I'm in a bit of a bowl relative to a smaller ridge at my particular location, and close up to the foot of that ridge.


Kinda like being in a fairway bunker near the greenside lip. If yer further back in the bunker you have a better LOS to the pin and more likely to clear the lip and get up onto the green.


And while I agree that 1WTC is not strictly "in line" with my LOS to the ESB, it seems that it's close enough to have had an effect last year, if that's what was indeed causing my problem. While I'm in a better position vis-a-vis 1WTC than someone in East Brunswick, I'm still more likely to see an effect than LenL, who's up in Randolph.


That's all I'm sayin'


And there definitely seemed to be a problem last year that came up rather suddenly and seemed to match the construction progress of 1WTC, which had just "peaked" to a new height. I had Yankee games in April and got all of them just fine (last one on 4-23). Then when my first May game came along (5-15), I had nothing. And I continued to have nothing until it was suggested by retiredengineer that 1WTC might be a problem and I might try moving my antenna to correct for the multipath effect, which I did.


At first I thought it was tree leaves (which weren't fully present in April) and cut away the offending branches from a tree about 50 to 75 feet away from the antenna and directly in my NYC LOS. But that had no effect and it wasn't until I moved the antenna around that I got MY9 reception back.


And I've been saying for a LONG time (too long and too often) that MY9 and ch 5 are particular problems since many of the other NYC broadcasters' antennas are also located on the ESB and the supposed power of MY9 and 5-1 appears to be up to par with everybody else. So I'm wondering why I get everyone else basically okay, but not MY9 and 5-1 (which I can't even get to lock in). You seem to also have problems with MY9 that you don't see with the other NYC stations, so I guess it's not just me. But because I'm iffy for all of the NYC stations, my MY9 problem is worse than yours. I'm also a bit farther out than you, which doesn't help.


But I'm 50 miles away from the Philly antennas at the Roxborough antenna "farm" and I get all of them very strong because I have excellent LOS. I also get Bethlehem / Allentown stations great.


__________________

Sony KV-27HS420

SIR-TS360 receiver (also VOOM OTA box (retired VOOM Satellite box))

RS Model VU-190 XR antenna

Getting 53 strong channels/subchannels out of the Roxborough farm /

Trenton / Allentown (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)


----------



## T-Max

Tonight's MY9 reception was terrible. I basically had nothing but the very occasional momentary bit of reception for a few seconds. Mostly there was dead silence. This was from 6:00 onward except as noted below. Reception of all other NYC stations was good.


Then at 9:00 it all changed. I had SOLID reception (turned out to be a very solid 85%) for the next hour (when the game ended). All of my other NYC stations were also up a bit. I stopped watching after the game ended but reception is still rock solid as I write this (~11 PM). Reception level appears to be 84% but it has to be a very solid 84 because I see no glitches at all.


It's gotta be "conditions" unless there's something going on at the ESB, which I doubt.


There were a lot of thunderstorms in the area earlier, so perhaps that accounts?


----------



## LenL

I think you should start a new thread dedicated to your MY9 reception issues. I think you must have posted 50 or more times about this one thing which seems to be a localized reception issue to YOU. People have offered you equipment and you refuse.


What more do you want us to do for you outside of picking up your house and moving you to a better location?


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23472286
> 
> 
> I have Sony20inch 1996 .... Analog TV incapable to adjust to overpowering, superior signal.



Don't give up hope so quickly.


I have an older Zenith CRT-based HDTV in my household. It has overscan adjustments, but they are tucked away in a service menu that is not documented in the User's Manual. I had to order a printed service manual in order to find out how to access the overscan adjustments, and that was sufficient for me to reduce the factory-set overscan and display more of the broadcast image.


You may not need to purchase a manual to find this setting. Those Sonys were popular enough models that the service menu procedures are *probably* posted online somewhere - perhaps even in the AV equipment forums on this site.


What is the model number of your Sony TV?


Also, what is the make and model number of your converter box? It may have similar adjustments.


----------



## icemannyr

I noticed WNYC-DT 25.1 NYLIFE is now 1080i HD.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23479038
> 
> 
> I think you should start a new thread dedicated to your MY9 reception issues. I think you must have posted 50 or more times about this one thing which seems to be a localized reception issue to YOU. People have offered you equipment and you refuse.
> 
> 
> What more do you want us to do for you outside of picking up your house and moving you to a better location?



+1


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23479038
> 
> 
> I think you should start a new thread dedicated to your MY9 reception issues. I think you must have posted 50 or more times about this one thing which seems to be a localized reception issue to YOU. People have offered you equipment and you refuse.
> 
> 
> What more do you want us to do for you outside of picking up your house and moving you to a better location?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23482911
> 
> 
> +1


When you guys move his house, might I suggest moving it across the street from 43 Meadowlands Parkway, Secaucus, NJ.


----------



## LenL

I think we are going to move it near Philly.


----------



## rothe

Stuff that I learned from using a spectrum analyzer:


Reflections, whether from distant buildings or geographical features, or from near-field surfaces like roofing shingles or brick walls, will significantly alter the shape of a channel's reception chart. This isn't just a bogus "signal strength" rating like what your TV tells you, but it's a chart of the *quality of the signal.* Take a look at the three charts of my channel thirteen reception at the bottom of this page:

http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/attic_vs_roof/index3.html 


Ideally, you want a flat plateau of a chart, showing equal signal strength all the way across the 6mhz of the channel's band. The first picture shows reception while the antenna was mounted in the attic, with the signal rolling off sharply at the lower end of the band. Moving the antenna to a position three feet above the roof helped to clean up the lower portion of the chart, but shifted the interference to the upper part of the chart. It wasn't until I moved the antenna to eight feet above the roofline - more than one wavelength higher than the roof - that the roof reflection didn't have an effect on the chart. Key point: antennas work best in "free air," with nothing near them within one wavelength's distance of the lowest frequency that you're trying to receive.


Another notable finding is that you can predict the effected frequency from a near-field reflection by relating the distance from the reflection to the length of a channel's waveform. Conversely, you can also predict the distance of a reflective interference source by observing the frequency that is adversely effected on the chart. For example, if you have a flat panel antenna like a C5 mounted about 5 inches in front of a flat surface, you're likely to get cancelling reflections right around channels 5 and 9. The wavelengths of both of these channels is about 18 or 19 inches. Now think about that radio wave as it gets picked up by your antenna, and then arrives at the nearest reflective surface behind the antenna. For arguements sake, let's say the antenna is actually 4.5 inches off of the wall. That's one quarter of the wavelength of these signals. The round trip for the signal to pass by your antenna and then bounce back to get picked up again is exactly the distance of one half of a wavelength. Consider the shape of a sine wave, and you can understand that the reflected signal is EXACTLY OUT OF PHASE with the source signal. This will have the effect of partially cancelling out the source signal. The solution will be to move the antenna further off of the wall, preferably by more than one wavelength, so as to not be at a distance where a reflection can partially cancel out the source signal. For these frequencies, you might actually be better off with an indoor antenna.


Forgive the long-winded description of my observations. I'm not saying this for the purpose of tooting my horn, or to push spectrum analyzer rentals. If you can internalize these principles enough to act on them without seeing some measurements or signal charts, and that helps you to fix your reception problems - well then, mission accomplished!


But if not, then some additional data and some signal charts may really help, and a spectrum analyzer rental may be in order. As they say: a picture is worth a thousand words.


PM me if you're interested.


----------



## LenL

I'm sure this makes more sense than moving the house, or moving the antenna around every time the Yanks are on.


----------



## AvidHiker

Hey, thanks for the suggestion, James. Unfortunately, I'm also cursed with aluminum siding, but I do have an indoor antenna I could experiment with if I can get it positioned in front of that window I suppose...


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23488136
> 
> 
> I'm sure this makes more sense than moving the house, or moving the antenna around every time the Yanks are on.



he should just get an MLB.tv subscription and watch the game anytime he wants instead of trying to figure out physics or praying for a clear day.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23486211
> 
> 
> . Consider the shape of a sine wave, and you can understand that the reflected signal is EXACTLY OUT OF PHASE with the source signal. This will have the effect of partially cancelling out the source signal. The solution will be to move the antenna further off of the wall, preferably by more than one wavelength, so as to not be at a distance where a reflection can partially cancel out the source signal. For these frequencies, you might actually be better off with an indoor antenna.



ATSC is a single carrier alright but there's no carrier to cancel. Each symbol occupies the entire 6MHz. Cancellation of the entire 6MHz does materialize when two identical symbols are out of phase AND overlap in time. That is, delayed less than plus or minus one symbol duration from each other. Put another way, the delayed echo must be less than +- 28 meters since the symbol duration is .93 microseconds. If the echo is not out of phase AND does not overlap in time, only partial cancellation occurs..


This phenomenon is the killer of ATSC because the equalizer cannot process such short delayed echos.


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23488286
> 
> 
> ATSC is a single carrier alright but there's no carrier to cancel. Each symbol occupies the entire 6MHz.



Actually, there is a critical single frequency in the 6 MHz signal bandwidth that if canceled will prevent reception and that is the pilot frequency. This signal is required by the receiver to synchronously lock up to the transmitted signal so that the 8 VSB levels can be produced. A spectrum analyzer will indicate if such a condition exist requiring you to move the antenna.


----------



## DTVintermods

The pilot is not necessary for demodulation and there are several patents in the regard.

Google *Pilotless demodulation of ATSC*

If your Rx does use the pilot for synchronization, then losing it will indeed kill the reception.

But the chance of precisely killing the pilot pales compared to the problem of short delayed (


----------



## retiredengineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23492829
> 
> 
> But the chance of precisely killing the pilot pales compared to the problem of short delayed (


----------



## DTVintermods

yes that was a typo. It should have been +- .1 not 1.

Again, even if your Rx depends on the pilot for sync, and not all Rxs do, it does not matter for short delayed echoes (delays of +- 28 meters) because they cancel the desired signal, partially or fully, at the input to the Rx before any sync or equalization. That is the killer of the single-carrier ATSC. In COFDM, the generally accepted digital modulation world wide, there are thousands of carriers within the channel so the echo degradation is far less.


----------



## LenL

FOX took MY9 news at 10 PM with Yolanda Blackman off the air. Perhaps I am the only one who watched it? It was 30 minutes NJ centric news, weather and even on occasion local sports reporting that you do not get from the major NY stations.


Being replaced by some sort of NJ feature programming but not hard news.


----------



## rothe

Try NJ Today for local NJ-centric coverage. Pick it up on channel 50 in north Jersey. Rebroadcast four times per day.

http://www.njtvonline.org/njtoday/


----------



## LenL

1. Its not on at 10 PM which is when I like to catch up on the latest news, weather and sports (Yank/Mets scores) just before the lights go out and I count sheep.


2. Does this even give sports and weather that is up to date? Or does it just recycle from the first broadcast of the day?


3. I might have to watch FOX. PIX at 10 PM does not really cover sports, and Mr G stands in front of any maps and graphics and blocks most of NJ weather data. So either he is dumb, or he just wants the weather to be about him so he stands in the center to block most everything or PIX really does not care about NJ. I did write to the station awhile a go and never got a response.


4. Last option is 2.2 CBS which runs a lot of stale news, weather and sports.


----------



## LenL

Article in todays Ledger about Congressmen Pallone going after Fox/WWOR for cancelling the 10 PM NJ Centric news broadcast which may be a violation of the agreement they have with NJ.


ALso to mention my Iview 3500 DVR is picking up about 6 Airbox stations that are part of the ION stream. So far none of my 3 TVs have picked these up. They are MPG 4 I think so no picture.


----------



## Trip in VA

They're both MPEG-4 and encrypted.


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23510264
> 
> 
> They're both MPEG-4 and encrypted.
> 
> 
> - Trip



trip, how does one access these airbox channels? is this a new service? airbox.com shows coming soon for a while now.


----------



## ADTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23510439
> 
> 
> trip, how does one access these airbox channels? is this a new service? airbox.com shows coming soon for a while now.



By subscription. If no subscription is offered in your area, then they're not available to you.


----------



## ALP

So I googled Airbox. It appears to be in the Houston, Texas area and is an encrypted broadcast service that is aimed at the Latino market (some of what I found was in Spanish which I cannot read). It is on the Ion subchannels. I have two questions. Does Ion routinely broadcast? I thought it was a cable channel. Is Airbox a first in offering an encrypted pay to view broadcast service?


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Does Ion routinely broadcast?



Yes. ION has stations in many, but not all, markets. See Trip's list at http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=network_search&network=ION 



> Quote:
> Is Airbox a first in offering an encrypted pay to view broadcast service?



No. Sezmi and MediaFlo are both recent failures since the digital transition. Previously, there had been several localized services that were analog.


----------



## Trip in VA

Don't forget USDTV.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16680#post_23481774
> 
> 
> Don't give up hope so quickly.
> 
> 
> I have an older Zenith CRT-based HDTV in my household. It has overscan adjustments, but they are tucked away in a service menu that is not documented in the User's Manual. I had to order a printed service manual in order to find out how to access the overscan adjustments, and that was sufficient for me to reduce the factory-set overscan and display more of the broadcast image.
> 
> 
> You may not need to purchase a manual to find this setting. Those Sonys were popular enough models that the service menu procedures are *probably* posted online somewhere - perhaps even in the AV equipment forums on this site.
> 
> 
> What is the model number of your Sony TV?
> 
> 
> Also, what is the make and model number of your converter box? It may have similar adjustments.


It is too much trouble to turn around this heavy 20 inch bulk 1996 Sony, first to disconnect VCR/DVD system then the converter box Access iNet SSR 1921,clone of Tivax, thank you for your help, I am unable to squeeze the double screen broadcast of 2-2 to see the extreme right or left side


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23513471
> 
> 
> Don't forget USDTV.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Eh, you did, it's not on your website!










I had to Google that one and look at the Wiki article about it. I was busy building my house during that period and didn't have time for anything else for two years, so I'd never heard of it.


----------



## Trip in VA

My website didn't exist during that period.










- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

Airbox is so elusive that Trip talks about Prozac and Fetuses when you click on his Airbox link: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=airbox 


when you "open in a new tab" on the WPXN call sign link: http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=73356#station 


Trip, you get hacked?

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=74502#station 

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=31643#station


----------



## Trip in VA

I did at one point, and then cleaned it up and I got a clean bill of health from the people who noticed it. Are you still seeing it?


EDIT: Just looked again and I found a piece of code running that I must have overlooked last time, as it had regenerated the files I had erased. Should be clean again now.


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23521215
> 
> 
> I did at one point, and then cleaned it up and I got a clean bill of health from the people who noticed it. Are you still seeing it?



nope, its clean


----------



## Steve L

Anyone having an issue with WPIX OTA from the Empire State Building? My signal strength dropped to 25, but I'm getting low to mid-90s on NBC, FOX, ABC and CBS. I'm in lower Westchester County, about 20 miles away.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steve L*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23527917
> 
> 
> Anyone having an issue with WPIX OTA from the Empire State Building? My signal strength dropped to 25, but I'm getting low to mid-90s on NBC, FOX, ABC and CBS. I'm in lower Westchester County, about 20 miles away.



nope, WPIX has been like always for me, perfect. watched the mets game, had it on for the bloobers show and now watching Friends. working fine.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steve L*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23527917
> 
> 
> Anyone having an issue with WPIX OTA from the Empire State Building? My signal strength dropped to 25, but I'm getting low to mid-90s on NBC, FOX, ABC and CBS. I'm in lower Westchester County, about 20 miles away.


I'm less than 4miles, having the same problems like you, with pixelation it is not worth to watch, pitty since 11-2 Antenna and 11-3 This TV run good sitcoms and movies


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steve L*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23527917
> 
> 
> Anyone having an issue with WPIX OTA from the Empire State Building? My signal strength dropped to 25, but I'm getting low to mid-90s on NBC, FOX, ABC and CBS. I'm in lower Westchester County, about 20 miles away.



No problems here other than sound sometimes goes out for a sec or 2. Usually pq is good but I do have a dedicated VHF antenna.


How are your other VHF stations when you have issues with WPIX? Check and let us know.


----------



## Kascnef82

Fox 5 is having some pixellation issues broadcasting the all star game...brief white dead pixels during game and local ads and programming. Might be the heat. Watching in hd on fios and optimum.


----------



## Trip in VA

And thus completely irrelevant to this thread.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23535213
> 
> 
> Fox 5 is having some pixellation issues broadcasting the all star game...brief white dead pixels during game and local ads and programming. Might be the heat. Watching in hd on fios and optimum.



This is an OTA thread.


Watching the ALLSTAR game OTA and pq is great.


If you are watching it both on FIOS and Optimum I think you may be pixellating!


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23536231
> 
> 
> And thus completely irrelevant to this thread.
> 
> 
> - Trip



he's been told repeatedly that he constantly posts in the wrong thread. he seems to think because he is watching a local channel on fios, that its OTA. i dont think he will ever get it.


----------



## LenL

Give the guy a break. He probably was booted off the FIOS and Optimum forums. I mean who has both those services and OTA? Or just both those services?


----------



## Kascnef82

I have fios.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23537216
> 
> 
> I have fios.



Then you are in the wrong thread


----------



## Kascnef82

Ok


----------



## LenL

Or you can dump FIOS and go with an antenna and get FREE HD!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fiddlerontheroof*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22786999
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that Soul of the South Network will debut on 1/21/13 on a tv station in SC. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, will it be available in the NYC market?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16410#post_22787178
> 
> 
> "Soul of the south" would hardly have mass appeal in this market even if its something you may personally want.


*Soul of the South Television Debuts on WKOB-LD New York*


Sometime yesterday, the Wheel of Formats was spun again at WKOB-LD New York (RF Channel 2/Virtual Channel 42-1), and this time has landed on *Soul of the South Television*. The Arkansas-based network's target audience is Black Americans living in the southern United States, but will be inclusive of all audiences as far north as Philadelphia, PA., and now market #1, New York City.


According to the Hollywood Reporter, Doug McHenry, the Hollywood-based producer of films including _New Jack City_ and _House Party_ and TV shows including _Malcolm & Eddie_, is the new network’s president of entertainment. Launched over Memorial Day weekend, the network will not have any original programming outside of an active news presence in its local markets. McHenry says executives are in active negotiations with three Hollywood studios about licensing appropriate programming, including past situation comedies, dramas, documentaries and movies.


By some time in 2014, McHenry anticipates the network will offer at least one night of completely original programming in primetime -- comedies, dramas, documentaries, specials and movies -- which he says will be on a par in terms of budgets and ambition with what you might see on *BET* or *TV One*.


McHenry says the hope is to convince national advertisers that there is value in customizing their advertising to the audience and market, just as he plans to do with their original programming. “We believe there is a difference in the lifestyles of an African-American in the South just as people are different in New York City,” says McHenry. “We want to celebrate and explore what is unique about the Southern lifestyle.”


This is not WKOB-LD's first time for offering a subchannel programmed for the Black community. In late December 2012, *Punch TV* began airing over virtual channel 42-3. However, it was discontinued only four months later in April 2013 and immediately succeeded by *Peace TV*.


WKOB-LD had been owned by Mako Communications, and was operated under the licensee name Nave Communications. In June 2013, WKOB-LD was sold to Landover 5 LLC as part of a larger deal involving 51 other low-power television stations.

_Technical Specs_


As is the case for all of WKOB-LD's subchannels, virtual channel 42-1 broadcasts in 480i SD with a static aspect ratio of 4:3. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *WKOB-LD* on virtual channel 42-1. Time is -1:07:00. Accurate program guide information is unavailable. The current program airing is "TBA" which has no description. It is a 3 hour program which airs every three hours beginning at H:59:00, starting at 12:59AM.

HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: Soul of the South Network Targeting African-Americans Launches May 27 


See other WKOB-LD related topics:

HOT TV Network returns to WKOB-LD 42.3 
TELOS ALTERNATIVE HEALTH NETWORK NOW AVAILABLE IN NEW YORK CITY 
MUNDO HISPANO TV (MHTV) RETURNS TO NYC TV AIRWAVES 
RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED


----------



## Kascnef82

On wnyw hd there are dead pixels that are quite visible during local hd programming as well as syndication. I hope they fix that issue. On regular fox programming its ok. Maybe the splicer got messed up.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23541934
> 
> 
> On wnyw hd there are dead pixels that are quite visible during local hd programming as well as syndication. I hope they fix that issue. On regular fox programming its ok. Maybe the splicer got messed up.



OK...here is what you need to do:


1. Call FIOS and/or Cable Co and cancel you TV package.

2. Get yourself a nice outdoor antenna and mount it. You can do it or you can hire someone.


Then enjoy FREE HD TV over the air with the best picture quality you can get!


You can then enjoy reading and posting on this forum!


Otherwise we DON'T care about your FIOS or Cable reception issues!


----------



## Kascnef82

Ok.


----------



## AloEuro

Giacomo as you have reported the Soul of the South TV was running on weekends on 42-1, I saw some clips b&w boxing probably Marciano and the likes knocked out, baseball, sort of documentaries. Problem with ch.42 is that their signal is low, around 40 and down, sometime they are on then not to be seen for few days, hopefully they will stay on and succeed.


One other thing, CBS is running ad - announcement indicating that TimeWarner may drop them from cable beginning this week, I watch only OTA, I wonder what is behind the politics of this type of greed.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23551600
> 
> 
> Giacomo as you have reported the Soul of the South TV was running on weekends on 42-1, I saw some clips b&w boxing probably Marciano and the likes knocked out, baseball, sort of documentaries. Problem with ch.42 is that their signal is low, around 40 and down, sometime they are on then not to be seen for few days, hopefully they will stay on and succeed.
> 
> 
> One other thing, CBS is running ad - announcement indicating that TimeWarner may drop them from cable beginning this week, I watch only OTA, I wonder what is behind the politics of this type of greed.



It's not politics....its financials. Cable companies are losing customers and their costs are going up as the programming providers want more money for the content they provide. It's a fine balancing act and in some cases the cables want to cut the money they give to some content providers in order to give more money to others who are demanding it.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23535213
> 
> 
> Fox 5 is having some pixellation issues broadcasting the all star game...brief white dead pixels during game and local ads and programming. Might be the heat. Watching in hd on fios and optimum.


As people here have pointed out this is a OTA (Over the Air) antenna thread only. No talk of cable company's.


On that note if you need or want the fios forum board link. Just let me know and I will pm you with it. You can talk about Fios issues over there.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23543045
> 
> 
> OK...here is what you need to do:
> 
> 
> 1. Call FIOS and/or Cable Co and cancel you TV package.
> 
> 2. Get yourself a nice outdoor antenna and mount it. You can do it or you can hire someone.
> 
> 
> Then enjoy FREE HD TV over the air with the best picture quality you can get!
> 
> 
> You can then enjoy reading and posting on this forum!
> 
> 
> Otherwise we DON'T care about your FIOS or Cable reception issues!


I do find the AEREO TV option interesting though. OTA via internet.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16710#post_23539450
> 
> 
> Or you can dump FIOS and go with an antenna and get FREE HD!


Full Scan on weekends from Friday get up to 77ch. including doubles 12/31 ION and Audio, during week it goes down to 66, all free on my catodeTV.

Friend on TimeW pays around $60 to get maybe 40-50 more channels most of which he does not watch


----------



## SnellKrell

It's bad enough that 2.2's content is nearly unwatchable, but now the audio is

extremely low.


Unfortunately, that did not help this channel!


----------



## cjvnyc

OK, I'm now OTA only for TV, and I love it (07040 zip code in NJ). I've noticed a few stations I never heard of, with signal strengths in the 40s or so. My main stations are coming in 90s. My question is, is it worth it to go back on the roof and tweak the direction of the antenna a bit in either direction (I used a compass and pointed at the ESB), or is that a more 'analog-y' thing to try and not likely to help with digital?


----------



## Trip in VA

Tweaking the antenna can definitely help things, but the question is, do the stations you are getting weakly matter? What channels are they? I can tell you what programming they have and then you can decide if they are worth the trouble.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23573688
> 
> 
> OK, I'm now OTA only for TV, and I love it (07040 zip code in NJ). I've noticed a few stations I never heard of, with signal strengths in the 40s or so. My main stations are coming in 90s. My question is, is it worth it to go back on the roof and tweak the direction of the antenna a bit in either direction (I used a compass and pointed at the ESB), or is that a more 'analog-y' thing to try and not likely to help with digital?



Not really.


What you should do is identify those stations and go to resources on the web and find out where they are broadcasting from and what programming they broadcast. If they are not on the ESB then chances are that moving your antenna will result in poorer reception for the stations you get that broadcast from the ESB. I think you will find it is not worth it. Your other option is to put a rotor on you antenna if you really want those stations.


----------



## AloEuro

It'a amazing how the cable companies exploit OTA ch. for corporation profit/greed,when it comes to Movie channels on OTA, I admit that TW does business rather cleverly, the movie channels on OTA 5-2 Movies, 9-3 Bounce, 11-3 This TV, 31-3 ION are not on TWBasic, might require Standard at $ 60- range ( also Spanish Movies ch. free on OTA)


----------



## cjvnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23574033
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> 
> What you should do is identify those stations and go to resources on the web and find out where they are broadcasting from and what programming they broadcast. If they are not on the ESB then chances are that moving your antenna will result in poorer reception for the stations you get that broadcast from the ESB. I think you will find it is not worth it. Your other option is to put a rotor on you antenna if you really want those stations.



Thanks- I kind of suspected this as I'd been told with digital it's basically either all or none. Anything to keep me off the roof ...


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23574801
> 
> 
> It'a amazing how the cable companies exploit OTA ch. for corporation profit/greed,when it comes to Movie channels on OTA, I admit that TW does business rather cleverly, the movie channels on OTA 5-2 Movies, 9-3 Bounce, 11-3 This TV, 31-3 ION are not on TWBasic, might require Standard at $ 60- range ( also Spanish Movies ch. free on OTA)



Those channels may or may not be carried on TW but anything available OTA that TW carries is in it's Broadcast Basic Tier which is in the $20 range


----------



## cjvnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575353
> 
> 
> Those channels may or may not be carried on TW but anything available OTA that TW carries is in it's Broadcast Basic Tier which is in the $20 range



$20 with an HD STB?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23573688
> 
> 
> OK, I'm now OTA only for TV, and I love it (07040 zip code in NJ). I've noticed a few stations I never heard of, with signal strengths in the 40s or so. My main stations are coming in 90s. My question is, is it worth it to go back on the roof and tweak the direction of the antenna a bit in either direction (I used a compass and pointed at the ESB), or is that a more 'analog-y' thing to try and not likely to help with digital?



The other thing that should be pointed out to you before you start messing with your antenna is that OTA reception can be very finicky depending on the weather, season (cold, hot, humid, leaves on trees, tropospherics, etc), sunspots and more. I would not touch a thing with the antenna until many months have gone by and you see how your reception varies over time.


I've had channels where one time of the year reception was close to 100% for months and then other times I could not get the channel for months. Other channels almost never change.


So stick with it and monitor how it goes.


Tell us what antenna equipment you are using and how far away you are from the ESB.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575399
> 
> 
> $20 with an HD STB?


$20 with a digital adapter or clear QAM for however long they choose not to encrypt


----------



## cjvnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575424
> 
> 
> The other thing that should be pointed out to you before you start messing with your antenna is that OTA reception can be very finicky depending on the weather, season (cold, hot, humid, leaves on trees, tropospherics, etc), sunspots and more. I would not touch a thing with the antenna until many months have gone by and you see how your reception varies over time.
> 
> 
> I've had channels where one time of the year reception was close to 100% for months and then other times I could not get the channel for months. Other channels almost never change.
> 
> 
> So stick with it and monitor how it goes.
> 
> 
> Tell us what antenna equipment you are using and how far away you are from the ESB.



Apologies:


An antenna from "Denny's Antenna": 1 EZ HD TV Antenna with J-Pole mounting arm VHF/UHF/FM/digital/HD


According to AntennaWeb, 15 miles to the ESB.


Thank for the advice on patience- I'm going to put a note book next to the TV and check one every 3 months or so. While I'm on a hillside and have a tall house, there are enormous shade trees whose canopies are between me and the top of the ESB.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575539
> 
> 
> Apologies:
> 
> 
> An antenna from "Denny's Antenna": 1 EZ HD TV Antenna with J-Pole mounting arm VHF/UHF/FM/digital/HD
> 
> 
> According to AntennaWeb, 15 miles to the ESB.
> 
> 
> Thank for the advice on patience- I'm going to put a note book next to the TV and check one every 3 months or so. While I'm on a hillside and have a tall house, there are enormous shade trees whose canopies are between me and the top of the ESB.



post your tv fool results. you might not have enough antenna, its probably too small. I'm 15 miles out of ESB and i had to combine a dedicated VHF-HI antenna to get reliable signal on VHF channels.


----------



## cjvnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575599
> 
> 
> post your tv fool results. you might not have enough antenna, its probably too small. I'm 15 miles out of ESB and i had to combine a dedicated VHF-HI antenna to get reliable signal on VHF channels.


 http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aef4717c4ef9 


I really like this antenna- it installed perfectly (no holes in roof) and is very discreet (busybody town, busybody neighbors)- and I hope it does the job solo.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575599
> 
> 
> post your tv fool results. you might not have enough antenna, its probably too small. I'm 15 miles out of ESB and i had to combine a dedicated VHF-HI antenna to get reliable signal on VHF channels.



Since the antenna is installed CJVNYC could give us the list of major channels and actual reception results seen at the location with the equipment in use. No need for subchannel results.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575539
> 
> 
> Apologies:
> 
> 
> An antenna from "Denny's Antenna": 1 EZ HD TV Antenna with J-Pole mounting arm VHF/UHF/FM/digital/HD
> 
> 
> According to AntennaWeb, 15 miles to the ESB.
> 
> 
> Thank for the advice on patience- I'm going to put a note book next to the TV and check one every 3 months or so. While I'm on a hillside and have a tall house, there are enormous shade trees whose canopies are between me and the top of the ESB.



When I first went OTA this is what I did too. I used a list on a paper next to the TV and later went to a spreadsheet where I put the info. I was going crazy for awhile until I got things settled in. BY that I mean antenna locations and type of antenna. You are nice and close to the ESB and that is in your favor big time. You should have good results. When the leaves come off those tress your results may change. It could be better.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575620
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aef4717c4ef9
> 
> 
> I really like this antenna- it installed perfectly (no holes in roof) and is very discreet (busybody town, busybody neighbors)- and I hope it does the job solo.



you say that you receive the network channels just fine which is great with that antenna due to your LOS considering wpix, abc and pbs being vhf.


which stations that "you never heard of" that you dont get are you talking about? are they worth it depends on what they are and if you like them. most of them are either chinese, korean or spanish language channels and whether they are in another direction. if they are not of any value, i wouldnt re aim the antenna in order to get ESB and others. it will increase the chance of reception issues from ESB.


----------



## cjvnyc

So, apples to apples, today, mid summer, mid afternoon, sunny:

Channel Strength (Sharp TV metric)

2.1 85

4.1 80

5.1 80

7.1 80

9.1 77

11.1 86

13.1 64


(gap, incl missing 23.1 ...)


24.1 69

25.1 84

31.1 76

36.2 76

41.1 86

42.1 40 (bad) (42.2 - 42.5 seem fine) 42.6 40 (bad)


46.1, 47.1 (TV "detected" them but blank)

63.1-63.3 (same, detected but blank) 63.7 23 (bad)


For most of these with the .1 reported, I scrolled thru the .2-.4 range and they looked fine Lots of alternate language/religion channels. Image and audio fine.


Here shows what the signal must pass thru (antenna to right, note these trees are taller than they look)

 


I can gain 10+ feet in elevation by using the chimney, but I'd have to get a permit


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23578349
> 
> 
> So, apples to apples, today, mid summer, mid afternoon, sunny:
> 
> Channel Strength (Sharp TV metric)
> 
> 2.1 85
> 
> 4.1 80
> 
> 5.1 80
> 
> 7.1 80
> 
> 9.1 77
> 
> 11.1 86
> 
> 13.1 64
> 
> 
> (gap, incl missing 23.1 ...)
> 
> 
> 24.1 69
> 
> 25.1 84
> 
> 31.1 76
> 
> 36.2 76
> 
> 41.1 86
> 
> 42.1 40 (bad) (42.2 - 42.5 seem fine) 42.6 40 (bad)
> 
> 
> 46.1, 47.1 (TV "detected" them but blank)
> 
> 63.1-63.3 (same, detected but blank) 63.7 23 (bad)
> 
> 
> For most of these with the .1 reported, I scrolled thru the .2-.4 range and they looked fine Lots of alternate language/religion channels. Image and audio fine.
> 
> 
> Here shows what the signal must pass thru (antenna to right, note these trees are taller than they look)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can gain 10+ feet in elevation by using the chimney, but I'd have to get a permit



well, i dont know what 46.1 is but 47.1 is telemundo (spanish) and 63.xx is WMBC, which is asian and spanish channels. so if you dont care about those foreign language channels, don't bother.


the one "main" channel that you are missing if it matters to you is WNJN (or WNJT which is the same as WNJN) which is a PBS channel with NJ centric programming with great documentaries and british programming. WNJN is 127 degrees to the north of where your antenna is aimed. So you have to find the sweet spot between the stations to try to get them all. or you can just join another antenna aimed at the other location with your current antenna.


i am very surprised, good for you that you are getting 42 WKOB with that antenna.


----------



## cjvnyc

Aero 1- Thank you so much- your help is what I was hoping for. Regards.


The PQ for this OTA amazes me. I always had very good broadband TV (Comcast when they didn't cheat then FiOS) but this PQ blows that out of the water.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23578209
> 
> 
> you say that you receive the network channels just fine which is great with that antenna due to your LOS considering wpix, abc and pbs being vhf.
> 
> 
> which stations that "you never heard of" that you dont get are you talking about? are they worth it depends on what they are and if you like them. most of them are either chinese, korean or spanish language channels and whether they are in another direction. if they are not of any value, i wouldnt re aim the antenna in order to get ESB and others. it will increase the chance of reception issues from ESB.



I'd like to get more channels, just for the sense of satisfaction. But in reality, I only watch CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, My9, and CW11. I rarely watch PBS (and get both 13 and 21, but my antenna is pointed away from the WLIW transmitter, so reception of that is spotty.)


In way of sub-channels, I might watch Movies! (5.2), AntennaTV (11.2), and ThisTV (11.3). (But not so much This! since Elvira's Movie Macabre ended)


I'd like to receive 31 and its subs, but have difficulty doing so (It shows mostly re-runs and old movies, which I have seen multiple times before). In the end, I don't watch these channels enough to kill myself with improving reception.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575620
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aef4717c4ef9
> 
> 
> I really like this antenna- it installed perfectly (no holes in roof) and is very discreet (busybody town, busybody neighbors)- and I hope it does the job solo.



What about mounting the antenna at the peak of the roof instead?


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## cjvnyc

Doug, I wanted to be very discreet at first, so I approached from below with a 22' ladder, one that could not go the extra 8 feet to that point. Now that the experiment is a success and cable was DQ'd I may well tweak in elevation.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23578486
> 
> 
> I'd like to get more channels, just for the sense of satisfaction.



Same here. I'm very lucky that the antenna farm from Montclair that has WNJN and WMBC is 3 miles away and dead center on the path to ESB, its a straight line. I speak Spanish so i rely on the spanish channels for soccer and other sports, so it was a must.


the two stations i wish i could get is WPXO for mundofox which i heard is in HD (i get the SD version from WWOR) and WLIW for PBS Create and World. I'm considering trying to get these with new antennas, but i dont know if i have it in me or the motivation to troubleshoot to get those two.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23578518
> 
> 
> Doug, I wanted to be very discreet at first, so I approached from below with a 22' ladder, one that could not go the extra 8 feet to that point. Now that the experiment is a success and cable was DQ'd I may well tweak in elevation.



Just want to point out that more elevation will most likely favorably impact the VHF stations the most.....7.1, 11.1 and 13.1.


UHF reception is not as dependent on elevation. The sweet spot could be right where your antenna is or it could be higher or lower.


You did not mention 50.1 or 58.1 the NJN PBS stations. If you are not getting them and want them you may need to move you antenna, or try getting them with another antenna. A lot of the programming on them is also on 13.1 PBS.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey cjvnyc,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575620
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aef4717c4ef9
> 
> 
> I really like this antenna- it installed perfectly (no holes in roof) and is very discreet (busybody town, busybody neighbors)- and I hope it does the job solo.


Your antenna is NOT installed perfectly if the installation or orientation diminishes your potential reception.I wouldn't pay any mind to busybody neighbors. Are they watching your TV? Did they help install your antenna? It's your property, your TV, and your antenna. As long as all of the above stay upon your property, it is of no concern to anyone else.


And I'll address the legality in a moment...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23578349
> 
> 
> So, apples to apples, today, mid summer, mid afternoon, sunny:
> 
> Channel Strength (Sharp TV metric)
> 
> 2.1 85
> 
> 4.1 80
> 
> 5.1 80
> 
> 7.1 80
> 
> 9.1 77
> 
> 11.1 86
> 
> 13.1 64
> 
> 
> (gap, incl missing 23.1 ...)
> 
> 
> 24.1 69
> 
> 25.1 84
> 
> 31.1 76
> 
> 36.2 76
> 
> 41.1 86
> 
> 42.1 40 (bad) (42.2 - 42.5 seem fine) 42.6 40 (bad)
> 
> 
> 46.1, 47.1 (TV "detected" them but blank)
> 
> 63.1-63.3 (same, detected but blank) 63.7 23 (bad)
> 
> 
> For most of these with the .1 reported, I scrolled thru the .2-.4 range and they looked fine Lots of alternate language/religion channels. Image and audio fine.


Most likely, channel 23.1 - 23.4 is WDVB-CD Edison. Regarding 42.1 and 42.6: That, of course, is WKOB-LD, and the reason those two subchannels in particular are received poorly is because that is how WKOB is receiving those channels, *Soul of the South* and *Almavision*. Channel 46.1 - 46.4 is WMBQ-CD New York.


I cannot figure out if the 47.1 you are receiving is supposed to be WNJU Linden or if that is the actual RF for WLNY-TV Riverhead. From your location, I would guess WNJU.


Do expect reception patterns to change when deciduous leaves drop in Autumn.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23578349
> 
> 
> Here shows what the signal must pass thru (antenna to right, note these trees are taller than they look)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can gain 10+ feet in elevation by using the chimney, but I'd have to get a permit


According to the Maplewood, NJ Zoning ordinances:

_*271-70 Zone Requirements*

A. R-1-7, R-1-5 and R-1-4 Residential Single-Family Districts

(1) Permitted Principal Uses - Single-family dwellings

(2) Accessory Uses - Private garages, sheds, fences not over 4-feet in height in side/rear yards only (see 271-43), swimming pools, radio antennas, receiving dish antennas, solar collectors and other uses customarily associated with single-family dwellings, provided that such accessory uses are subordinate to the principal use and serve only the principal use. Up to one roomer or boarder per dwelling unit is permitted in the R-1-5 and R-1-4 Districts._


Radio/TV antennas are not only permitted accessory uses, but they are protected under federal law. It used to be customary to see TV antennas attached to chimneys in the pre-Cable proliferation days. Therefore, you DO NOT NEED a permit to erect an antenna upon your chimney. The ordinance may speak to dwelling height, but an antenna does not increase structural height. And if any zoning officer said otherwise, I am quite confident they could be legally challenged on their obviously faulty interpretation.


----------



## cjvnyc

Giacomo, thanks. Apologies for misusing the term "perfect." Bit of euphoria. When I decided to try this experiment, I honestly expected it to fail at some link. And, as far as "intended use" goes, here that doesn't stop them for taxing us, or at least trying to. But I'm feeling emboldened by your analysis.


----------



## rothe

Looking at that setup and environment, I see a few issues. You're correct about the trees, but they're not yours to mow down. So your only alternative is altitude. ANY more height will gain you signal strength, and might help the antenna to not have to look through the densest part of the many of these trees.


But more than that, I see a problem with reflections from behind the antenna. As I've mentioned here before, near-field reflections from behind will have the effect of cancelling out certain frequencies. So the wall behind the antenna is actually a hinderance to a clean signal. And it will be even more of a problem when the wall gets wet during periods of rain.


Speaking of which, that gutter will also serve as an undesirable reflector. It's metal AND it collects rain water. I remember when I originally had my antennas attic-mounted - I could actually see a correlation between my VHF reception dropping away and whenever leaves would clog up the gutter downpipe. Thus, the entire gutter, clogged and filled to overflowing, would serve as a reflector that substantially degraded the signal. Both the attic location and the clogging gutters have been corrected.


If I were you, I would opt for a gable-mount, with a pole extending above the roofline. Ideally, you want the antenna well above the roof, by at least one wavelength higher than your lowest-frequency channel. (Channel 7 is about 60 inches in wavelength.) But because this antenna would be above and in front of the reflecting roof surface, you might not need that much elevation.


So try a gable mount and a five foot pole. The gable mount will place the bottom of the pole about two feet below the roofline, so the antenna will be about three feet above it.


----------



## LenL

Or you can accept the fact that your reception is very good as it is and you are probably losing some signal because of the long cable run you have.


So your actual task may be NOT to move you antenna as some have suggested but to simply add a good powered preamp (channel master 7777 or 7778) to prevent signal loss from the long cable run. I have found it made a dramatic difference for me. With a preamp you might see signals closer to 100% across most of your stations where it is in the 70's and 80's.


Just another suggestion/alternative to consider.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

It's time to dump a little rain on this parade:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23585294
> 
> 
> Or you can accept the fact that your reception is very good as it is and you are probably losing some signal because of the long cable run you have.



His reception is NOT very good as it is. Every one of those channels are full-power (except WASA-LD Port Jervis which has been known to be receivable by merely sticking a paper clip into the Antenna In jack) and most of them transmit from ESB. Even worse, full-power WFUT Newark is M.I.A., unless that omission was an oversight. Also missing is WFME-TV West Milford, which is even receivable in NYC's outer boroughs. And neither WNJN Montclair nor WNJB-TV New Brunswick are on the list. The signal strengths of the channels he can receive are respectable, but not thrilling.


The biggest "surprise" fooling some into thinking his reception is all that and a bag of chips is the WKOB-LD New York pickup. But that is likely due to correct positioning and that moderately-sized VHF-Lo element sitting ostracized from it's VHF-Hi and UHF neighbors.


Denny's advertises that this antenna provides "Reliable uninertrupted reception to 50 miles". Considering all known factors, I think the antenna is doing that job. One thing to understand when choosing an antenna: Usage in urban areas will often shorten the manufacturers' predicted range. BTW, the poor spelling was Denny's, not mine.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23585294
> 
> 
> So your actual task may be NOT to move you antenna as some have suggested but to simply add a good powered preamp (channel master 7777 or 7778) to prevent signal loss from the long cable run. I have found it made a dramatic difference for me. With a preamp you might see signals closer to 100% across most of your stations where it is in the 70's and 80's.
> 
> 
> Just another suggestion/alternative to consider.



Or a preamp could raise the noise levels on some stations pushing them over the dreaded digital cliff. A long cable run does not necessarily deplete signal strength. In fact, my experience has shown it is better to have too much cable than not enough. A short cable is often subjected to more tensions and that alone could negatively impact reception.


Look again at the list he provided:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23578349
> 
> 
> So, apples to apples, today, mid summer, mid afternoon, sunny:
> 
> Channel Strength (Sharp TV metric)
> 
> 2.1 85
> 
> 4.1 80
> 
> 5.1 80
> 
> 7.1 80
> 
> 9.1 77
> 
> 11.1 86
> 
> 13.1 64
> 
> 
> (gap, incl missing 23.1 ...)
> 
> 
> 24.1 69
> 
> 25.1 84
> 
> 31.1 76
> 
> 36.2 76
> 
> 41.1 86
> 
> 42.1 40 (bad) (42.2 - 42.5 seem fine) 42.6 40 (bad)
> 
> 
> 46.1, 47.1 (TV "detected" them but blank)
> 
> 63.1-63.3 (same, detected but blank) 63.7 23 (bad)
> 
> 
> For most of these with the .1 reported, I scrolled thru the .2-.4 range and they looked fine Lots of alternate language/religion channels. Image and audio fine.
> 
> 
> Here shows what the signal must pass thru (antenna to right, note these trees are taller than they look)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can gain 10+ feet in elevation by using the chimney, but I'd have to get a permit



This list shows excellent reception for a location in Sussex or Hunterdon Counties in New Jersey, not so much for a suburban municipality of Essex County, NJ.


Here's my analysis: Our new friend here on the New York AVS Forum is presently receiving respectable signals transmitted from New York City at his location in Maplewood, NJ. He is utilizing a budget outdoor antenna which is mounted very well to his house, but situated at a level below the apex of the main roofline. The East wall of the house and the roof deck are presenting opportunities for signal refraction. The aluminum gutter and leader are presenting opportunities for signal absorption. The antenna is rated for 50 miles, not full-sized, and is deficient for VHF-Hi reception in urban areas. There are numerous mature trees off-site south and east of his property, at least two of which are evergreens. This foliage directly obstructs the direction from which he expects to receive the majority of available signals. This obstruction will both impede and refract predicted reception.


In my view, the only way to deal with this situation is with absolute aggression. I recommend obtaining a significantly larger outdoor antenna and situating it upon a ten-foot mast attached preferably to a wooden crossmount just below the main roof apex, the chimney or upon the main roof. The antenna should be oriented accordingly. It should be guyed, if necessary, and grounded in the usual fashion. The antenna wire's point-of-entry is fine and reusing the existing cable is also fine provided it is long enough and in good shape without any evidence of fraying or leakage at either end.


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/02/nyregion/hitting-the-airwaves-cuny-tv-turns-over-an-old-leaf.html 


- Trip


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


I'm not going to have rain dumped on me by you. Maybe mother nature.


I'm speaking from MY personal experience at MY location in NJ and my research on this matter. It's OK that we disagree and CJVYNC can see there are ALTERNATIVEs to consider and try. I know what my reception was BEFORE and AFTER I put in a preamp. The impact was dramatic. You can shoot it down all you want. The truth is the truth. As far as any bad things happening because of a preamp? Possibly but I have 4 of them installed on 4 different antennas (my house and my moms) and I have not seen any issues. Can there be issues? Sure but I think if you get a good preamp they will be few and far between.


----------



## LenL

Trip,


Thanks for the info on the OTA use by that college. Some of the comments in the article were interesting, especially about the increase in OTA use.


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL,


I love being quoted in articles.










- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23588543
> 
> 
> LenL,
> 
> 
> I love being quoted in articles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



I bet! You probably wrote the whole thing!


I should mention that I receive 25.3 just fine.


----------



## AvidHiker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23588509
> 
> 
> Giacomo,
> 
> 
> I'm not going to have rain dumped on me by you. Maybe mother nature.
> 
> 
> I'm speaking from MY personal experience at MY location in NJ and my research on this matter. It's OK that we disagree and CJVYNC can see there are ALTERNATIVEs to consider and try. I know what my reception was BEFORE and AFTER I put in a preamp. The impact was dramatic. You can shoot it down all you want. The truth is the truth. As far as any bad things happening because of a preamp? Possibly but I have 4 of them installed on 4 different antennas (my house and my moms) and I have not seen any issues. Can there be issues? Sure but I think if you get a good preamp they will be few and far between.



+1. The tone of his post(s) is quite irritating. That's nice he wants to offer some insight, but let's all relax and have a friendly discussion.


To suggest that more cable is beneficial to a radio signal originating from an unamplified antenna is just plain ignorant, IMO.


----------



## nyctveng

Proper routing of cable from antenna to tv or tv's is important but too much cable is bad. "Drip loops" on entry point into house and slack on antenna and tv side is recommended. Excessive lengths of coax like enough to move your tv to anywhere in the living room is not a good idea.


----------



## George Molnar

Not all stations send out the same power and it's not uncommon that one or two stations are much higher than the others. A preamp used to boost the weaker ones can become overloaded by the more powerful carriers, generating interference that causes DTV receivers to work harder to decode the signal. Reports of lower strengths or even 'weak signal" blackouts often result. Sometimes antenna gain alone results in high power stations overloading DTV receivers, and splitters, attenuators, or even extra lengths of cable can dissipate enough signal to resolve the "too much signal" syndrome. But, if the overload is caused by using the preamp, you can't eliminate the resulting effects.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23588543
> 
> 
> LenL,
> 
> 
> I love being quoted in articles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip


Nice! Too bad the author incorrectly stated WNYE TV is seen on 74 on most cable systems. It's seen mostly on 25 (22 on cablevision). Many cable systems carry the NYC gov channel on 74 which is seen OTA on 25.2


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23588999
> 
> 
> Not all stations send out the same power and it's not uncommon that one or two stations are much higher than the others. A preamp used to boost the weaker ones can become overloaded by the more powerful carriers, generating interference that causes DTV receivers to work harder to decode the signal. Reports of lower strengths or even 'weak signal" blackouts often result. Sometimes antenna gain alone results in high power stations overloading DTV receivers, and splitters, attenuators, or even extra lengths of cable can dissipate enough signal to resolve the "too much signal" syndrome. But, if the overload is caused by using the preamp, you can't eliminate the resulting effects.



Good points George. I guess if there is overload due to the preamp the solution is to pull the preamp. Sell it on Ebay or return it if within the return policy period if you find you can't use it.


I did have an issue with CBS last fall where it went from close to 100% to I could not get it at all for a couple of months. It could have been a preamp issue as you suggest can happen. I had a professional installer go on my roof to install the thing years ago as I don't climb over 10 feet. I was not going to call him to pull the preamp. But it has been fine the past 8 months. So I don't really know what the issue was. It may just have been something at my location.


Anyway there are lots of choices on how to improve OTA reception from preamps, bigger or different antennas, changing locations etc. One size does not fit all and as we all know it sometimes is just trial and error at your specific location.


Good to see we have more people going OTA!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AvidHiker*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23588853
> 
> 
> +1. The tone of his post(s) is quite irritating. That's nice he wants to offer some insight, but let's all relax and have a friendly discussion.


I am very glad that cjvnyc has elected to utilize an antenna and become an OTA-only household. But the list of channels he provided, considering his geographic location, was, in my opinion, anemic. I did not want him to think that he was limited to that selection. Therefore, considering all of the parameters of his particular location, I provided my suggestions for how to improve his reception. In my opinion, the way to achieve this is to go aggressive with a stronger antenna and allow it to fully breathe in all directions. I'm glad he is receiving what he is, but I think he could do even better.


The problem with OTA broadcasting in 2013 is that the content can wear with viewers easily and quickly. Infomercials, 24/7 religious stations, lack of most significant sporting events, endless reruns of typical syndicated fare, and multiple ownership rules have all depleted the uniqueness of the TV dial. The only way to mitigate that is to maximize your reception to be inclusive of as many channels as possible. That way, you at least have more variety potential. And New York City, unlike Los Angeles, Chicago, and other major markets, has virtually no independent commercial stations. This makes powerful reception all the more critical in this market.


George Molnar and nyctveng offered some excellent technical insight to this specific discussion. Len, I wasn't specifically criticizing you, though I understand how you could have construed that because I quoted your post. I was pointing out that, considering the refraction potential of his situation, a preamp could have the opposite effect of that which I know you hoped he would have. It may or it may not. My signals suffer from refraction also, and that solution did not work for me. But with reception issues, it is obvious - and digital television has definitely proved this over the past four years - that Your Mileage May Vary is more than a saying, it is a science.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


Good points.


Unless he speaks Spanish, Korean or Chinese he pretty much gets all of the English speaking channels. It may look anemic but if he listed all of the sub channels it would be a much bigger list. It looks pretty much like what I get.


If he had a rotor he probably could change his antenna direction as needed and pick up a few more stations including WLIW. But it all depends on what he and his family viewing preferences are.


I know a lot of people never watch PBS programming and I am hooked on PBS. I would go out of my way to get PBS stations with my antenna. Other people could care less.


If he comes back with more specific issues we can offer our diverse opinions.


----------



## Trip in VA

He's missing NJTV on 50.1 or 58.1 though, and that's definitely of interest (again, if one likes PBS).


- Trip


----------



## cjvnyc

I'm going to go up a bit in elevation to the apex of the dormer roof and also be more careful on my 87 degrees, which I basically eyeballed before using a cheap compass, then re-evaluate. I'll post the new numbers back in here. The PBS station in Montclair is going to be a tricky issue for me as I live south of Montclair, not west.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23591404
> 
> 
> He's missing NJTV on 50.1 or 58.1 though, and that's definitely of interest (again, if one likes PBS).
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yes but CJVNYC never complained so he may not care about these or PBS in general. Plus a lot of what they broadcast was already shown on PBS 13.1. All the major programming from Downton Abby, This Old House, Mystery, Nature etc originates from PBS 13.1.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23591433
> 
> 
> I'm going to go up a bit in elevation to the apex of the dormer roof and also be more careful on my 87 degrees, which I basically eyeballed before using a cheap compass, then re-evaluate. I'll post the new numbers back in here. The PBS station in Montclair is going to be a tricky issue for me as I live south of Montclair, not west.



OK..be careful on that ladder!


----------



## stoxguy

Hey, I did a rescan at 3AM the other night. I now have 59 OTA HD stations, EXCEPT 5.2 NY FOX. All I get on 5.2 is a delayed rebroadcast of 5.1. I was unaware that 5.2 is broadcasting movies. Is anyone in the NJ/NY/CT area receiving movies, or is it just me? I am getting more Philly stations than stations that are broadcast LOS from NJ, sheesh.


----------



## stoxguy

And I forgot to add this tidbit in, I am using an old crappy Radio Shack 60" antenna, located in my condo attic. I've moved it, then moved it again, then moved it again, then, heck! I am NOT moving it anymore. I'm going through what a lot of people have gone through. Every time I lose a station, move the antenna, you get one, lose 3. I don't like those Vegas odds at all. I am going to spend the $50 and get a decent medium range antenna. Keep my coax line length short and hope for the best. And Giacomo Siffredi is right. Most of my additional stations are foreign language and useless crap. The best 4 stations in the country, bar none, are from MIND TV, ( http://www.mindtv.org/ ) which is NOT broadcast from NY. It is broadcast from Philadelphia. They are independent and unbiased. They have the best programming and news. Better than that liberal-biased crap that FOX and CNN broadcast. I cut the cable cord and I won... la la la la. (Sing to "I fought the law and the law won")


----------



## kousikb

Reporting after long time. Bought a new house in Monroe, NJ, which is about 52 miles from NYC stations. For last two years I had dish. But it'd drop out during bad weather. I had made up my mind to drop it once the commitment period is over. So after two years I am switching to fios. To save on hd rental box fee for my bedroom and basement tv, I decided to try my db2 antenna outdoor. I got zero channels from NYC and about 15 from Philly market. I am in a location, which tvfool says 1edge for 25ft height antenna towards NYC stations. The db2 was at 5ft above ground outdoor, using the same dish pole mount. I thought of buying a big and ugly antenna. But one day mcm electronics, which is famous for selling raspberry pi, sent me a promo mailer for a fringe range yagi UHF antenna for about $25 plus $5 shipping. I had earlier purchased raspberry pi from them, so I was on their mailing list. Bought the antenna as a pur impulse purchase without reading any review in avsforum or any other places. Yesterday I installed it in the attic pointing towards NYC stations. It's about 100' RG6 run to a 2 way splitter in the basement and then another 100' RG6 run to 2nd floor bedroom tv. I had no expectations because of the distance, terrain and all the other negative factor like roofing material, long running cable, splitter Eric. Surprisingly I am getting almost channels for NYC market except cw11 and pbs13. I was even more surprised that I got abc7, because the antenna is really not a VHF antenna.

I used the following antenna. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/STELLAR-LABS-30-2155-/30-2155 I am now thinking of getting either the 75 mile deep fringe version or the yagi antenna sold by radio shack to see if it can get cw11 and pbs13.


----------



## cjvnyc

OK, apologies but a "dumb" question: if you're in NJ, close to NYC, then buy a second fin/antenna and point it to Philly, then merge/couple the feeds, will the Philly stations' signals now mess up the NYC stations where the frequencies overlap?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23593668
> 
> 
> Reporting after long time. Bought a new house in Monroe, NJ, which is about 52 miles from NYC stations. For last two years I had dish. But it'd drop out during bad weather. I had made up my mind to drop it once the commitment period is over. So after two years I am switching to fios. To save on hd rental box fee for my bedroom and basement tv, I decided to try my db2 antenna outdoor. I got zero channels from NYC and about 15 from Philly market. I am in a location, which tvfool says 1edge for 25ft height antenna towards NYC stations. The db2 was at 5ft above ground outdoor, using the same dish pole mount. I thought of buying a big and ugly antenna. But one day mcm electronics, which is famous for selling raspberry pi, sent me a promo mailer for a fringe range yagi UHF antenna for about $25 plus $5 shipping. I had earlier purchased raspberry pi from them, so I was on their mailing list. Bought the antenna as a pur impulse purchase without reading any review in avsforum or any other places. Yesterday I installed it in the attic pointing towards NYC stations. It's about 100' RG6 run to a 2 way splitter in the basement and then another 100' RG6 run to 2nd floor bedroom tv. I had no expectations because of the distance, terrain and all the other negative factor like roofing material, long running cable, splitter Eric. Surprisingly I am getting almost channels for NYC market except cw11 and pbs13. I was even more surprised that I got abc7, because the antenna is really not a VHF antenna.
> 
> I used the following antenna. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/STELLAR-LABS-30-2155-/30-2155 I am now thinking of getting either the 75 mile deep fringe version or the yagi antenna sold by radio shack to see if it can get cw11 and pbs13.



WABC is broadcasting with a lot more power than WPIX/WNET, so it's not shocking that you'd get it but not the others. 34 kW versus less than 10 for the other two.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stoxguy*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23593407
> 
> 
> Hey, I did a rescan at 3AM the other night. I now have 59 OTA HD stations, EXCEPT 5.2 NY FOX. All I get on 5.2 is a delayed rebroadcast of 5.1. I was unaware that 5.2 is broadcasting movies. Is anyone in the NJ/NY/CT area receiving movies, or is it just me? I am getting more Philly stations than stations that are broadcast LOS from NJ, sheesh.



I'm sort of confused by your message here. The two Fox-owned stations have this lineup:


WWOR

9-1 My Network TV (HD)

5-3 Fox (SD)

9-3 Bounce TV

9-4 Mundo Fox


WNYW

5-1 Fox (HD)

9-2 My Network TV (SD)

5-2 Movies!


Which one aren't you getting? WNYW is on the same channel as WMCN in the Philadelphia market, so it tends to be harder to get if you receive both sets of stations, but you should still at least be able to see Fox (in SD) on 5-2.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23593688
> 
> 
> OK, apologies but a "dumb" question: if you're in NJ, close to NYC, then buy a second fin/antenna and point it to Philly, then merge/couple the feeds, will the Philly stations' signals now mess up the NYC stations where the frequencies overlap?



Yes, though even using two antennas aimed different ways when frequencies don't overlap is usually considered to be a bad idea because it can introduce multipath and degrade your signal quality.


- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

Since u have fios, u can hook up your bedroom and basement tv and get all of their unencrypted locals and skip the hassle of an antenna.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23593668
> 
> 
> Reporting after long time. Bought a new house in Monroe, NJ, which is about 52 miles from NYC stations. For last two years I had dish. But it'd drop out during bad weather. I had made up my mind to drop it once the commitment period is over. So after two years I am switching to fios. To save on hd rental box fee for my bedroom and basement tv, I decided to try my db2 antenna outdoor. I got zero channels from NYC and about 15 from Philly market. I am in a location, which tvfool says 1edge for 25ft height antenna towards NYC stations. The db2 was at 5ft above ground outdoor, using the same dish pole mount. I thought of buying a big and ugly antenna. But one day mcm electronics, which is famous for selling raspberry pi, sent me a promo mailer for a fringe range yagi UHF antenna for about $25 plus $5 shipping. I had earlier purchased raspberry pi from them, so I was on their mailing list. Bought the antenna as a pur impulse purchase without reading any review in avsforum or any other places. Yesterday I installed it in the attic pointing towards NYC stations. It's about 100' RG6 run to a 2 way splitter in the basement and then another 100' RG6 run to 2nd floor bedroom tv. I had no expectations because of the distance, terrain and all the other negative factor like roofing material, long running cable, splitter Eric. Surprisingly I am getting almost channels for NYC market except cw11 and pbs13. I was even more surprised that I got abc7, because the antenna is really not a VHF antenna.
> 
> I used the following antenna. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/STELLAR-LABS-30-2155-/30-2155 I am now thinking of getting either the 75 mile deep fringe version or the yagi antenna sold by radio shack to see if it can get cw11 and pbs13.


----------



## kousikb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23593762
> 
> 
> Since u have fios, u can hook up your bedroom and basement tv and get all of their unencrypted locals and skip the hassle of an antenna.


Yesterday the fios installer came and said that although the fios box is in my front yard, the underground cabling seems to be connected to a house 500ft from my house. My house doesn't seem to have the underground conduit connecting the distribution box. So I am still managing with a 3mbps comcast Internet (downgraded from earlier 25mbps service recently) to see whether I can live with it for netflix service and save money from $65 a month Internet to $30 per month. After the fios fiasco I got desperate to see if I can have just Internet and ota. That's when I got out of the Couch and installed the antenna in the attic. But the Internet speed would probably drive me towards fios again. Because I am not getting the netflix with full bloom and the chromecast I got recently would be under served. Yes I know if I upgrade the Comcast speed I may have it better and still use their qam. But comcast has a nasty habit to update their qam mappings every now and then and I don't want to rescan everyday. So the fios with $70 per month for select tv hd and Internet would provide the reliability for the family room tv and the fios installer advised me to call fios tech support to get some discount for the "inconvenience" I have faced in the install which is still not compete.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kousikb*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23593863
> 
> 
> Yesterday the fios installer came and said that although the fios box is in my front yard, the underground cabling seems to be connected to a house 500ft from my house. My house doesn't seem to have the underground conduit connecting the distribution box. So I am still managing with a 3mbps comcast Internet (downgraded from earlier 25mbps service recently) to see whether I can live with it for netflix service and save money from $65 a month Internet to $30 per month. After the fios fiasco I got desperate to see if I can have just Internet and ota. That's when I got out of the Couch and installed the antenna in the attic. But the Internet speed would probably drive me towards fios again. Because I am not getting the netflix with full bloom and the chromecast I got recently would be under served. Yes I know if I upgrade the Comcast speed I may have it better and still use their qam. But comcast has a nasty habit to update their qam mappings every now and then and I don't want to rescan everyday. So the fios with $70 per month for select tv hd and Internet would provide the reliability for the family room tv and the fios installer advised me to call fios tech support to get some discount for the "inconvenience" I have faced in the install which is still not compete.


Ok, good luck with the fios. I believe Comcast has or is in the process of encrypting all their local QAM anyway while fios is unencrypted for now.


----------



## KEVINL71

Comcast just encrypted limited basic cable for us in New Britain, CT a few days ago. Sadly, you are spot on with that assessment.


----------



## stoxguy

Trip, I'm getting even more confused. Here's what I researched. From Wikipedia: _At 11:59 p.m. ET on June 12, 2009, WNYW discontinued its analog signal on VHF channel 5;[28] the shutdown occurred during the closing credits of a syndicated rerun of The Simpsons. The station's digital signal remained on its pre-transition channel 44,[29] using PSIP to display WNYW's virtual channel as 5. It carried WWOR's programming on digital subchannel 5.2 until 2009, when it changed the PSIP data to identify the virtual channel carrying WWOR's programming to 9.2. Subchannel 9.2 still remains multiplexed with WNYW 5.1 on RF channel 44._ Then I emailed a Mike Howey from FOXTV and got this reply: _If, on the other hand, you are trying to receive MOVIES! with an antenna, then it will be on 5.2. For WNYW, 5.1 will show channel 5 programming in high definition. 5.2 will show MOVIES! and 5.3 will show channel 5 programming in standard definition. If you can receive 5.1 using an antenna, 5.2 should be there also. Perhaps another rescan on your TV is in order. I have seen it take a few scans to get all the channels you have available._ I've done enough freaking rescans already. I am trying to receive OTA, channel 5.2, which according to the FCC query look up is WNYW in New York. I am on mile marker 46 on Route 22, in North Plainfield NJ. I am trying to figure out why I am not able to get 5.2 movies, NOT the delayed rebroadcast of WNYW 5.1. And I am very accomplished at electronics and mechanical things. Nothing pisses me off more than not being able to do a simple thing and not have it work. Like editing the Windows registry to remove those damn shortcut arrows on my desktop. So I am about to get another box for scanning and see if that solves the problem. In the meantime, I will be buying a mid-range antenna. Here's the official FCC query: http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=NY&call=wnyw&arn=&city=new&chan=05&cha2=69&serv=DT&type=3&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9 . So I did another rescan and nothing happened to channel 5.2, nor is except now I am getting OTA signals from 3 states. I will update you when I get the antenna installed and post the results. Or I am going to throw everything and I mean EVERYTHING in the dumpster and just build this antenna and be happy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EWQhlmJTMzw#at=117


----------



## nyctveng

Make and model of equipment you are using? Hopefully not outdated and obsolete Voom boxes that some people here use :x


Edit: I went back to your old posts and it seems you are getting Fox SD on 5.2 rather than Movies. Seems like your tv is holding onto it's old channel settings when you do a rescan so therefore not seeing the "new 5.2". Old setting of 5.2 is actually WWOR and new is actually WNYW. Try deleting both all WWOR and WNYW channels in your tv and do a rescan. I'm confident that will fix your issue. Good luck.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stoxguy*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23598348
> 
> 
> Trip, I'm getting even more confused. Here's what I researched. From Wikipedia: _At 11:59 p.m. ET on June 12, 2009, WNYW discontinued its analog signal on VHF channel 5;[28] the shutdown occurred during the closing credits of a syndicated rerun of The Simpsons. The station's digital signal remained on its pre-transition channel 44,[29] using PSIP to display WNYW's virtual channel as 5. It carried WWOR's programming on digital subchannel 5.2 until 2009, when it changed the PSIP data to identify the virtual channel carrying WWOR's programming to 9.2. Subchannel 9.2 still remains multiplexed with WNYW 5.1 on RF channel 44._ Then I emailed a Mike Howey from FOXTV and got this reply: _If, on the other hand, you are trying to receive MOVIES! with an antenna, then it will be on 5.2. For WNYW, 5.1 will show channel 5 programming in high definition. 5.2 will show MOVIES! and 5.3 will show channel 5 programming in standard definition. If you can receive 5.1 using an antenna, 5.2 should be there also. Perhaps another rescan on your TV is in order. I have seen it take a few scans to get all the channels you have available._ I've done enough freaking rescans already. I am trying to receive OTA, channel 5.2, which according to the FCC query look up is WNYW in New York. I am on mile marker 46 on Route 22, in North Plainfield NJ. I am trying to figure out why I am not able to get 5.2 movies, NOT the delayed rebroadcast of WNYW 5.1. And I am very accomplished at electronics and mechanical things. Nothing pisses me off more than not being able to do a simple thing and not have it work. Like editing the Windows registry to remove those damn shortcut arrows on my desktop. So I am about to get another box for scanning and see if that solves the problem. In the meantime, I will be buying a mid-range antenna. Here's the official FCC query: http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=NY&call=wnyw&arn=&city=new&chan=05&cha2=69&serv=DT&type=3&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&size=9 . So I did another rescan and nothing happened to channel 5.2, nor is except now I am getting OTA signals from 3 states. I will update you when I get the antenna installed and post the results. Or I am going to throw everything and I mean EVERYTHING in the dumpster and just build this antenna and be happy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EWQhlmJTMzw#at=117


----------



## Trip in VA

I concur with nyctveng. You may also need to do the so-called "double rescan," whereby you unplug your antenna, scan (thus wiping out the memory), then hook the antenna back up and scan again.


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Stoxguy,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23598481
> 
> 
> I went back to your old posts and it seems you are getting Fox SD on 5.2 rather than Movies. Seems like your tv is holding onto it's old channel settings when you do a rescan so therefore not seeing the "new 5.2". Old setting of 5.2 is actually WWOR and new is actually WNYW. Try deleting both all WWOR and WNYW channels in your tv and do a rescan. I'm confident that will fix your issue. Good luck.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23599288
> 
> 
> I concur with nyctveng. You may also need to do the so-called "double rescan," whereby you unplug your antenna, scan (thus wiping out the memory), then hook the antenna back up and scan again.
> 
> 
> - Trip


Have you tried manually entering channel 44 directly using your remote control? *Before you delete and rescan, try doing this.* Please let us know your results. If the result turns out to be what I expect it to be, I believe you will be pleasantly surprised and your problem will be completely fixed


----------



## NervousCat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KEVINL71*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23595313
> 
> 
> Comcast just encrypted limited basic cable for us in New Britain, CT a few days ago. Sadly, you are spot on with that assessment.



Same thing happened here in Comcast's Hudson Valley service areas (eastern Putnam and Dutchess Counties).


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23578648
> 
> 
> Just want to point out that more elevation will most likely favorably impact the VHF stations the most.....7.1, 11.1 and 13.1.
> 
> 
> UHF reception is not as dependent on elevation. The sweet spot could be right where your antenna is or it could be higher or lower.
> 
> 
> You did not mention 50.1 or 58.1 the NJN PBS stations. If you are not getting them and want them you may need to move you antenna, or try getting them with another antenna. A lot of the programming on them is also on 13.1 PBS.



Well, I am in SW Nassau County, and with my chimney mounted Winegard HD7010, I get the following through a CM-7000 CECB tuner box on a CRT....


2-1 (35%)

3-1 (75%)

4-1 (75%)

5-1 (100%)

7-1 (100%)

9-1 (100%)

11-1 (100%)

12-1 (65%)

13-1 (100%)

21-1 (48%)

24-1 (25%)

25-1 (20%) *

41-1 (20%) *

42-1 (35%)

45-1 (58%)

47-1 (68%)

50-1 (65%)

63-1 (24%)

68-1 (60%)


I only have dropout issues on WNYC (25) and Univision (41).


I was surprised at the varying reception levels, being only 15-20 miles from ESB / Midtown... especially for 2-1.. and reception of 50.1 is almost twice that of 2.1 and it's twice as far away!! Must be harmonics and reflections...


I'll need to check again in the dead of winter to determine foliage impact... There are MANY high trees at least a story higher than the roof line in my LOS to the sticks.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## LenL

Your Wineguard HD7010 is a better VHF than UHF antenna. That may account for some of your reception results. Combo antennas can work well for many people. For some they are bad news.


Personally I have had better results from having separate VHF and UHF antennas. This way you can find the sweet spot for each. Your great VHF reception is a function of the model of antenna and height.


As I have said before UHF reception may/can be a location that isn't the same as good VHF reception.


If anyone is starting out with OTA I would recommend separate VHF and UHF antennas.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23606049
> 
> 
> Your Wineguard HD7010 is a better VHF than UHF antenna. That may account for some of your reception results. Combo antennas can work well for many people. For some they are bad news.
> 
> 
> Personally I have had better results from having separate VHF and UHF antennas. This way you can find the sweet spot for each. Your great VHF reception is a function of the model of antenna and height.
> 
> 
> As I have said before UHF reception may/can be a location that isn't the same as good VHF reception.



I would agree, but 5-1 and 9-1 are on UHF, and are coming in at 100%... 4-1 (RF 28) is okay, but 2-1 (RF 33), which is in between 4-1 and 9-1 (RF 38) is worse, so I don't think it's antenna efficiency at work.... And 2-1 is operating at a greater power (according to TV Fool...) I still think the local environment is to blame... Puzzling.


Again, I will check in the winter after the leaves on those trees are gone...


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*ION Launches QVC Nationwide, New York City Included*


ION Television is positively airing the 24/7/363.5 shopping channel, *QVC*, over most, if not all, of their O&O affiliates across the United States over a new .5 subchannel. How entertaining it is depends on whether you typically enjoy watching two people standing on a set - one person demonstrating products he or she hopes to sell you while the other person hosts the marketplace festivity. The new digital subchannel lit up in market #1 sometime on August 7, 2013.

*QVC*, which stands for "Quality, Value, Convenience", may now be conveniently available to viewers with a free over-the-air signal, but it's quality - in terms of bitrate - leaves much to be desired. It is obvious that this subchannel is taking more than one for the team when compared to its older subchannel neighbors. As would be expected, this is a static 4:3 SD program. But the video is apparently sourced from an HD feed, downconverted to SD, and then squeezed to fit 4:3 screens. The good news is that there is accurate program guide data and there are no black bars to waste screen area, the bad news is just about everything else. Incidentally, the bit-starved quality is quite noticeable on a standard CRT television; how it looks on a widescreen HD television is quite predictable. The PSIP TVCT channel name is "QVC". Whether *QVC* brings added value to the current NYC broadcast dial will be determined by its eventual audience. However, by offering a near complete calendar year of advertising and shopping, it will not stand alone in this market. And it nicely complements ION's .4 subchannel right next door, which in this market is now labeled "Shop"


The programming, at least when I checked it around 1AM, matches that which is broadcasted over cable and satellite television. The bug on the OTA signal, however, indicates that this feed is intended for the terrestrial broadcast TV. The standard "This is your ION Television Station" legal ID is displayed in white print on the screen bottom at the top of each hour. This form of legal ID is standard for all of the ION subchannels.


While this is the first time that ION has aired a .5 subchannel, it should be noted that the bandwidth was previously occupied by all or part of the Airbox subscription TV service, which has been sporadically airing over many of the ION affiliates, but hasn't been actively marketed to the public. As such, this move could be an indication that ION will, at least for now, expand their spectrum with ATSC viewable signals and thus capitalize on the existing broadcast digital TV infrastructure.


----------



## Trip in VA

QVC has not lit up across the country on every ION station. First-hand, I know that DC and Denver have not added it, and second-hand I hear it's not running in Pittsburgh either. DC and Pittsburgh, at least, already have other stations running QVC, and I wouldn't be shocked to learn the same is true in Denver.


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

Friend of mine has about 3 years old 26Sony/Bravia and when he gets it to 13-2 or 3 it blocks everything, doesn't go up nor down, it gives dark screen, you shut it Off and turning it On it remains on 13-2 or 3 dark screen, so he dumped it - to me, now I have inherited his problem, I wonder what is the cause of it, is it the TV? Similar situation is on 47-3 but you can move up and down to different TV ch.


----------



## Aero 1

The main ion channel already looks like crap. Constant micro blocking, no DD, terrible compression. Now they are going add another sub channel? Oof.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23607837
> 
> 
> QVC has not lit up across the country on every ION station. First-hand, I know that DC and Denver have not added it, and second-hand I hear it's not running in Pittsburgh either. DC and Pittsburgh, at least, already have other stations running QVC, and I wouldn't be shocked to learn the same is true in Denver.
> 
> 
> - Trip


You're correct that not every ION affiliate is airing *QVC*. However it's addition via a .5 subchannel on an ION licensed broadcast TV station has been confirmed by viewers of WHPX-TV New London (CT.), WPXV-TV Norfolk (VA.), KPPX-TV Phoenix (AZ.), and I believe you confirmed WPXA-TV Atlanta (GA.). And if that isn't all the proof needed about ION's intentions, at least with respect to markets currently without a broadcast TV station already carrying *QVC*, the addition has been confirmed for KPXN-TV San Bernardino (CA.) which serves major market #2, Los Angeles.


----------



## Trip in VA

I was responding specifically to the sentence where you said, "over most, if not all," to clarify that it is not "all." I think it is not being added in markets where QVC is already running on another station. I'm trying to confirm that.


- Trip


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23609204
> 
> 
> Hey Trip,
> 
> However it's addition via a .5 subchannel on an ION licensed broadcast TV station has been confirmed by viewers of WHPX-TV New London (CT.), WPXV-TV Norfolk (VA.), KPPX-TV Phoenix (AZ.), and I believe you confirmed WPXA-TV Atlanta (GA.). And if that isn't all the proof needed about ION's intentions, at least with respect to markets currently without a broadcast TV station already carrying *QVC*, the addition has been confirmed for KPXN-TV San Bernardino (CA.) which serves major market #2, Los Angeles.



QVC on-Air is available on WPXU-LD in Amityville, NY (Long Island) on 12.4.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Trip in VA

What are the other channels on WPXU-LD?


- Trip


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23610068
> 
> 
> What are the other channels on WPXU-LD?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Upon further review...


12-1 ION (As provided in the stream)

12-2 qubo

12-3 IONLife

12-4 Shop (Could have sworn the watermark on the screen read "QVC-over-the-air" when I first discovered it. Has infomercials on now)

12-5 QVC (but the watermark on screen displays QVC-over-the-air)


I did not compare the OTA version of QVC to its cable counterpart.


Cheers!

Doug


----------



## AloEuro

Ion 31-5 QVC so far was showing only infomercial, nothing else, same as its neighbor on-4, now is edited out on my tuner. QVC - good riddance.

Strangely the Bravia picked up 87-5 dark screen only with 480i


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16740#post_23575424
> 
> 
> The other thing that should be pointed out to you before you start messing with your antenna is that OTA reception can be very finicky depending on the weather, season (cold, hot, humid, leaves on trees, tropospherics, etc), sunspots and more. I would not touch a thing with the antenna until many months have gone by and you see how your reception varies over time.
> 
> 
> I've had channels where one time of the year reception was close to 100% for months and then other times I could not get the channel for months. Other channels almost never change.
> 
> 
> So stick with it and monitor how it goes.
> 
> 
> Tell us what antenna equipment you are using and how far away you are from the ESB.



So true about the weather.. anytime it's humid I get break ups on a few channels.. trying to explain this to someone who does not know as in tropospherics they think you are joking.. Being a fellow ham operator it's no joke










One odd thing I've seen happen is one of my strongest signal stations which is WABC I've seen break ups on that channel for some reason it's from the roof mounted antenna however 98% of the time it's fine.


5-1 gives me issues during the day but at night its fine.. i've had WNBC in the day be fine but night time it can be unwatchable. Nothing I watch on those stations at night anyways so no loss.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey AloEuro,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23611948
> 
> 
> Ion 31-5 QVC so far was showing only infomercial, nothing else, same as its neighbor on-4, now is edited out on my tuner. QVC - good riddance.
> 
> Strangely the Bravia picked up 87-5 dark screen only with 480i


Keep an eye on this. If your tuner is picking up channel 87-5, perhaps WNYZ-LD is performing on-air testing. 87.5 MHz is part of VHF Channel 6.


The only other possibility I can think it could be is the phantom WNJU subchannel which used to broadcast analog snow without audio, and was formerly broadcasting "Canal SOI". But re-mapping to channel 87-5? Last night when I checked, it was still bereft of all PSIP information and broadcasting on RF 36-5.


----------



## nyctveng

Looks like QVC is now on 31-5 on WPXN. Seems to be 16:9 SD similar to Cozi TV. Compared it to the cable feed and it's basically a 480i of the QVC HD. QVC SD on cable chops off the right side of the screen.


----------



## brsboarder

Can anyone offer advice. I'm in an apartment that's south facing 3rd floor at 30-60 29th st, astoria ny 11102. I have a basic indoor antenna and I get every channel perfectly except for NBC. I'm facing my antenna toward manhattan. I can't do an outdoor antenna. Any advice.


----------



## ejb1980




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23614955
> 
> 
> Looks like QVC is now on 31-5 on WPXN. Seems to be 16:9 SD similar to Cozi TV. Compared it to the cable feed and it's basically a 480i of the QVC HD. QVC SD on cable chops off the right side of the screen.



Glad yours is proper. Ours is 4:3 smush-o-vision from WGPX Burlington, NC.


----------



## LenL

Enough about QVC.


There is a bigger issue. Lately WNET PBS 13.1 is only sending for their programming schedule "EVENT" and not actual program information with start and end times. This has been happening regularly. I just went to their website and using the contact us tag sent them a request to fix this issue.


Anyone else concerned about broadcast stations not sending their EPG with actual info should do the same!


----------



## cjvnyc

By replacing a single drop-amp with a pre-amp, drop-amp double, I can now get 3.1 etc and 46.1 etc very clear on both of my TVs.

I'm satisfied for now and probably going to go wait thru the winter before moving the antenna higher on the soffets.


BEFORE:


Antenna ->

Split ->

(a) TV1

(b) Drop Amp -> Two-Way -> (a) TV2 (b) Two-Way -> (other TV jacks)


AFTER


Antenna ->

Drop Amp ->

Split ->

(a) TV1

(b) Drop Amp -> Two-Way -> (a) TV2 (b) Two-Way -> (other TV jacks)

(c) (other TV jack)


----------



## nyctveng

Glad you're getting more channels. Doubling up on amps may be overkill. Ideally amplification should be dine at it's earliest stage, before any splits. Where possible an inline amp is installed next to antenna and the power inserter is installed inside the house before any splitter. Voltage is sent up the coax to power the amp. Your original setup had the signal weakened by the 2 way then amplified again. Looks like you're daisy chaining on that 3rd leg which isn't ideal but looks like it's working. Ideal setup is:

Antenna->amp->8 way splitter->home runs to TVs

That gives a more balanced levels and less points of failure. Over amplifying can cause tuners life to shorten as your amplying both weak and strong signals.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ejb1980*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23616494
> 
> 
> Glad yours is proper. Ours is 4:3 smush-o-vision from WGPX Burlington, NC.



Let me correct myself, QVC on WPXN is transmitted in 4:3 smush o vision here as well but looks proper if viewing on a widescreen tv. I'm told ION O&O stations get a common feed from Florida and insert IDs locally.


----------



## ejb1980




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23617729
> 
> 
> Let me correct myself, QVC on WPXN is transmitted in 4:3 smush o vision here as well but looks proper if viewing on a widescreen tv. I'm told ION O&O stations get a common feed from Florida and insert IDs locally.



It will look proper if the TV is set up incorrectly. If there is a "set by program" mode on the TV, it will be smush-o-vision. Regular 16:9 mode will just stretch all SD to fill the screen, whether it should be or not.


----------



## cjvnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23617718
> 
> 
> Glad you're getting more channels. Doubling up on amps may be overkill. Ideally amplification should be dine at it's earliest stage, before any splits. Where possible an inline amp is installed next to antenna and the power inserter is installed inside the house before any splitter. Voltage is sent up the coax to power the amp. Your original setup had the signal weakened by the 2 way then amplified again. Looks like you're daisy chaining on that 3rd leg which isn't ideal but looks like it's working. Ideal setup is:
> 
> Antenna->amp->8 way amp->home runs to TVs
> 
> That gives a more balanced levels and less points of failure. Over amplifying can cause tuners life to shorten as your amplying both weak and strong signals.



Thanks. I played around with it quite a bit (second amp above the first splitter, third amp-> washing out some channels). I think I just got lucky in a way- I'm now clearly right at max amplification and without any noticeable artifacts- I recorded my major channels pre and post and don't see any artifacts. It did need more amplification- it turns out there were clean channels in there waiting to be heard, so to speak. The amps I use add 10db each, so by the time I'm in my long run to my serial TVs I've added 10 + 10 -3.5 (splitter) - 3.5 = 13.0 db of gain.


I should add I'lm in an older house (90 years) and unable to rewire the house by going inside walls- it's mostly "go around and poke a hole" here.


----------



## nyctveng

This trend of transmitting smush-o-vision isnt going away since OTA broadcasters know viewers are likely watching on a widescreen TV. Nationally QVC on ION subchannels and Cozi TV. Locally Mundo Fox simulcast on WWOR.


A note about QVC (sorry LenL) that the programming is identical to Cable as noted earlier but the logo on lower right shows "QVC over the air" and the 800 ordering number is different. Since the cable companies (and now ION) get commission based on orders originating from their service area, the 800 # lets QVC knows how the viewer is seeing the channel. For years HSN has had different 800 #s on some of their OTA stations. Secondary and Third providers in the market like Satellite and Fios also insert an overlay of a different 800 # on some of their shopping channels.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23617718
> 
> 
> Glad you're getting more channels. Doubling up on amps may be overkill. Ideally amplification should be dine at it's earliest stage, before any splits. Where possible an inline amp is installed next to antenna and the power inserter is installed inside the house before any splitter. Voltage is sent up the coax to power the amp. Your original setup had the signal weakened by the 2 way then amplified again. Looks like you're daisy chaining on that 3rd leg which isn't ideal but looks like it's working. Ideal setup is:
> 
> Antenna->amp->8 way splitter->home runs to TVs
> 
> That gives a more balanced levels and less points of failure. Over amplifying can cause tuners life to shorten as your amplying both weak and strong signals.



I agree with you. I also give you credit for understanding what he did. I could not.


Also Ideally the power inserter (according to Channel Master) should be close to the TV.


I never found it made in difference at my house. So my power inserter is in the basement about 12-15 feet away from the TV.


I do use a distribution amp for my one antenna that does not have a Preamp and I have long cable runs to the second floor TVs and it has worked out well for my location.


----------



## ejb1980




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23617835
> 
> 
> This trend of transmitting smush-o-vision isnt going away since OTA broadcasters know viewers are likely watching on a widescreen TV. Nationally QVC on ION subchannels and Cozi TV. Locally Mundo Fox simulcast on WWOR.
> 
> 
> A note about QVC (sorry LenL) that the programming is identical to Cable as noted earlier but the logo on lower right shows "QVC over the air" and the 800 ordering number is different. Since the cable companies (and now ION) get commission based on orders originating from their service area, the 800 # lets QVC knows how the viewer is seeing the channel. For years HSN has had different 800 #s on some of their OTA stations. Secondary and Third providers in the market like Satellite and Fios also insert an overlay of a different 800 # on some of their shopping channels.



Also, sorry LenL


You would think that the widescreen TV's would cause the biggest problem. The image is smushed in the middle of the screen if your TV is set up to display the flagged aspect ratio!!!


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23618475
> 
> 
> I agree with you. I also give you credit for understanding what he did. I could not.
> 
> 
> Also Ideally the power inserter (according to Channel Master) should be close to the TV.
> 
> 
> I never found it made in difference at my house. So my power inserter is in the basement about 12-15 feet away from the TV.
> 
> 
> I do use a distribution amp for my one antenna that does not have a Preamp and I have long cable runs to the second floor TVs and it has worked out well for my location.




For a single tv yes placing next to tv or wherever there is a convenient outlet along the path of coax is fine. But for setups with multiple outlets its best before the first split since voltage has to be passed up to the mast mounted amp and most splitters dont pass voltage. Again this is for 2 piece amps where amp is located by antenna and power inserter inside the home.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey cjvnyc,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23617638
> 
> 
> By replacing a single drop-amp with a pre-amp, drop-amp double, I can now get 3.1 etc and 46.1 etc very clear on both of my TVs.
> 
> I'm satisfied for now and probably going to go wait thru the winter before moving the antenna higher on the soffets.
> 
> 
> BEFORE:
> 
> 
> Antenna ->
> 
> Split ->
> 
> (a) TV1
> 
> (b) Drop Amp -> Two-Way -> (a) TV2 (b) Two-Way -> (other TV jacks)
> 
> 
> AFTER
> 
> 
> Antenna ->
> 
> Drop Amp ->
> 
> Split ->
> 
> (a) TV1
> 
> (b) Drop Amp -> Two-Way -> (a) TV2 (b) Two-Way -> (other TV jacks)
> 
> (c) (other TV jack)





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23617749
> 
> 
> Thanks. I played around with it quite a bit (second amp above the first splitter, third amp-> washing out some channels). I think I just got lucky in a way- I'm now clearly right at max amplification and without any noticeable artifacts- I recorded my major channels pre and post and don't see any artifacts. It did need more amplification- it turns out there were clean channels in there waiting to be heard, so to speak. The amps I use add 10db each, so by the time I'm in my long run to my serial TVs I've added 10 + 10 -3.5 (splitter) - 3.5 = 13.0 db of gain.
> 
> 
> I should add I'm in an older house (90 years) and unable to rewire the house by going inside walls- it's mostly "go around and poke a hole" here.


I'm really glad your adjustments have paid off to an extent. Even two additional channels in this market can add to a viewer's diversity. The fact the additional stations are both independent Low-Power TV stations makes the adjustments you've done so far all the more worthwhile.


I would still like to see you able to receive one of the NJTV signals, but if reception of their programming isn't a deal breaker for you, there is no reason to further adjust for them. It is probably a good idea to wait until leaf-fall to determine if a move or other adjustment is warranted.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23617718
> 
> 
> Glad you're getting more channels. Doubling up on amps may be overkill. Ideally amplification should be dine at it's earliest stage, before any splits. Where possible an inline amp is installed next to antenna and the power inserter is installed inside the house before any splitter. Voltage is sent up the coax to power the amp. Your original setup had the signal weakened by the 2 way then amplified again. Looks like you're daisy chaining on that 3rd leg which isn't ideal but looks like it's working. Ideal setup is:
> 
> Antenna->amp->8 way splitter->home runs to TVs
> 
> That gives a more balanced levels and less points of failure. Over amplifying can cause tuners life to shorten as your amplying both weak and strong signals.


From an engineering perspective, you're right. But ATSC Digital TV keeps proving "Your mileage may vary" over and over again.


----------



## cjvnyc

OK, so this has nothing to do with OTA, probably more to do with the nouveau "vacuum tube amp" distortion filters on some AVRs, but I was watching WCBS this morning and they busted out this Typewriter font, not only fixed spacing but irregular as well. Someone had some fun with this.


----------



## LenL

Perhaps you could invite some people over who have TWC and no longer get CBS to view it with you?


----------



## AloEuro

Friday at noon the Sony DTV tuner picked up ch90-2817, 2818, 2819 and at evening time it was gone, disappeared, no memory of it. Yesterday after Auto Program full scan the DTV picked it again. and it was running for while but at night only memory remains.today morning only memory no broadcast yet

90 - 2817 TLR Spanish some programming in espanol

90 - 2818 the same as above

90 - 2819 English infomercial exercise, nutients etc.

All 3 are 480i 4:3

Ch. 87 -5 only memory in tuner so far .


Ch. 13 - 1,2,3 added 13- 101 and 13-102 what ever it is


----------



## Trip in VA

Why do you have your TV set in cable mode?


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16800#post_23631896
> 
> 
> Why do you have your TV set in cable mode?
> 
> 
> - Trip


. Yes, it is in cable mode, I've got this DTV from friend week ago, I am still experimenting with it. I had argument with another friend. my contention is that I am getting HD ch. on my Analog Antenna, he says that unless it is HD Antenna the reception of HD ch. are not HD. I use the same Antenna set up for converter box out through VCR to DVD to analogTV, the output from converter box leads to the digital Sony


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23635520
> 
> 
> . Yes, it is in cable mode, I've got this DTV from friend week ago, I am still experimenting with it. I had argument with another friend. my contention is that I am getting HD ch. on my Analog Antenna, he says that unless it is HD Antenna the reception of HD ch. are not HD. I use the same Antenna set up for converter box out through VCR to DVD to analogTV, the output from converter box leads to the digital Sony



there is no such thing as an analog antenna or an hd antenna, its an antenna receiving the same UFH/VHF frequencies that have been around for decades. there are no more analog tv signals (except for LP stations, but for the purpose of this conversation and this TV market), they are digital signals. the digital signal carries both HD and SD, because you are seeing something in SD, it doesnt mean its analog. both your arguments are wrong and both fell for the "HD Antenna" marketing gimmick.


----------



## LenL

Very true but that doesn't stop antenna makers and retailers from promoting they have an HD antennas for sale. Just go to any retailer like Amazon, Solid Signal, Best Buy etc..


So it's easy for people to accept that there are special HD antennas. Possibly scares some people from OTA who already have an antenna but think they have to go up on the roof and replace it to get OTA.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23636646
> 
> 
> Very true but that doesn't stop antenna makers and retailers from promoting they have an HD antennas for sale. Just go to any retailer like Amazon, Solid Signal, Best Buy etc..
> 
> 
> So it's easy for people to accept that there are special HD antennas. Possibly scares some people from OTA who already have an antenna but think they have to go up on the roof and replace it to get OTA.


Yes sadly these days terms such as digital, HD, fiber, 4G are more marketing terms than technical terms. Every cell company is "4G" even though they aren't. And are those sunglasses advertised on TV really HD? without them I guess I'm seeing the world in SD.


----------



## LenL

Yup ...all marketing hype!


If only there was someone marketing OTA! Wait I guess in a way it is us on this forum!


----------



## reddice

I bought a indoor antenna once a RadioShack

UFO looking saying it was a HD antenna when I could have just tried one of our own antennas from the 1980s.


Now I use a roof antenna.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23636696
> 
> 
> Yes sadly these days terms such as digital, HD, fiber, 4G are more marketing terms than technical terms. Every cell company is "4G" even though they aren't. And are those sunglasses advertised on TV really HD? without them I guess I'm seeing the world in SD.


No such thing as HD sunglass lens. It is the illusion of HD. They should call it Not HD glases



PS Any NEW OTA TV channels coming soon?


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23639097
> 
> 
> I bought a indoor antenna once a RadioShack
> 
> UFO looking saying it was a HD antenna when I could have just tried one of our own antennas from the 1980s.
> 
> 
> Now I use a roof antenna.


I remember when the digital signal was coming. I called TERK and they told me I needed a NEW antenna for HD. I almost bought it. I found out from this forum that it was not needed and I was being lied to.


Thanks AVG


----------



## LenL

New TIVO Offering:

https://www.tivo.com/discover/antenna


----------



## AloEuro

Thank you gentlemen for clarification the confirmation of my believe that HD signal as the Analog signal of past are parasites sticking to any metal pole, and like firemen sliding down metal pole to lower floor, the signal parachutes down wires and metals of Antenna to your TV showing its face there for you and me. Thank you for your comments.


----------



## T-Max

Hmmmm. There seems to be a problem with my posts disappearing. So let's try this again.


Does anyone know if there's a way to construct an antenna tuned to one frequency? I'm interested in RF 38.


----------



## LenL

Go to the Gray-Hoverman forum or any antenna forum and ask. Most homemade antenna can be built to specification to get the best signal from the signal you are most interested in. Of course you can't build one at the exclusion of other signals.


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23652054
> 
> 
> New TIVO Offering:
> 
> https://www.tivo.com/discover/antenna


They always get you with that $20 service fee.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23654048
> 
> 
> They always get you with that $20 service fee.



or you get it without the service fee and pay for lifetime. people always seem to skip that option. besides its $15 not $20.


----------



## Aero 1

I'm curious, anyone who receives WRNN 48.2 Al Jazeera English, is AJE still broadcasting? AJ stopped all streams of AJE in the US since they became a paid cable channel.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23657521
> 
> 
> I'm curious, anyone who receives WRNN 48.2 Al Jazeera English, is AJE still broadcasting? AJ stopped all streams of AJE in the US since they became a paid cable channel.


the day Al Jazeera America launched, the Al Jazeera English service was discontinued by Al Jazeera therefore many broadcasters such as RNN in the NYC area and MHz in the DC area no longer have access to it.I believe for the time being RNN is duplicating 48.1 on 48.2.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23657601
> 
> 
> the day Al Jazeera America launched, the Al Jazeera English service was discontinued by Al Jazeera therefore many broadcasters such as RNN in the NYC area and MHz in the DC area no longer have access to it.I believe for the time being RNN is duplicating 48.1 on 48.2.



i figured as much. AJ English still exists and i still can see it online with a VPN, but its a pain. it was going to be my "i got nothing to do" project in the fall to join another antenna towards wrnn to see if i could get it. i guess i should now see if i could get WLIW from my location, "since i got nothing to do"


----------



## keyboard21




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23654093
> 
> 
> or you get it without the service fee and pay for lifetime. people always seem to skip that option. besides its $15 not $20.


$20 per month or $15 per month for a year upfront. Also the Lifetime is how much $600?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keyboard21*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23658051
> 
> 
> $20 per month or $15 per month for a year upfront. Also the Lifetime is how much $600?



for new customers, its $15 a month with a 1 year commitment + the price of the box. there is no $20, its $15. lifetime is $499 + the box.


for existing customers, its $13 a month with a 1 yr commit. + the box or lifetime is $399 + the box.


the price of the new one is more money than the old model, but you get 4 tuners. for $600 you get the same amount of tuners as having two crappy channel masters with actual guide data. plus all the other internet features and the ability to add slave devices for other tv's.


----------



## AloEuro

Last week by accident I was doing Auto Program full scan and I forgot to connect Antena to DTV, without Antenna the DigitalTV picked up 36 ch.including 2,4,5,7.9. not 11,nor 13 which I have intentionally blocked, plus others, minus about 30 ch. if it was connected with Antenna. the DTV was about 6 ft. from Antenna connected to converter box. the DTV in shadows of the Antenna picked up all major ch. plus more


----------



## cjvnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23657619
> 
> 
> i figured as much. AJ English still exists and i still can see it online with a VPN, but its a pain. it was going to be my "i got nothing to do" project in the fall to join another antenna towards wrnn to see if i could get it. i guess i should now see if i could get WLIW from my location, "since i got nothing to do"



You can come cut my grass. (j/k







)


----------



## alexjohnson

Not sure if this isn't a technical board question but it's NYC-specific:


I'm a recent mover so started out with a Mac mini as HTPC using EyeTV and HDHomeRun, to a Mohu Leaf.


I'm in the West Village (10014) so signal strength is not a problem, but I am south-facing first floor so multipath is. Even then, it's much better than I feared.


When I connect the Leaf to the TV's own tuner, it's pulling in everything. The HDHomeRun is pickier and crappier.


Basically I can always get 2.1, 4.1, 7.1 and 11.1. But I kind of have to choose 9.1, or 5.1 and 11.1. (I am simplfing a little). Even then, Fox is temperamental: when I get the picture it's good, but it seems harder for the tuner to grab it in the first place. I always get 5.3. But I don't want to be adjusting the antenna every time I change channel, especially as the whole point is to have timeshifted DVR capability (and I travel internationally a lot so streaming is not a good answer for me - not just the VPN issue, but the 35,000' issue too: in fact it's those long plane rides and bad hotel wifi I have in mind.)


Positioning of the Leaf also isn't quite what I'd hoped: I have to have it in the window and it gets in the way of the AC controller. Partly that's the cable length. I know they do a longer one, but it seems to be a question of rotating the things through 90 degrees, not mounting it a bit higher etc.


Now, there's two ways forward. I can be zen about it and recognize I'm lucky I can get all the networks in full quality irrespective of the weather if I just adjust the antenna from time to time. But, who am I kidding: I wouldn't be posting here if I were that guy. So, I can try amplifiers (which seems pointless but again others' experience would be useful), or a different antenna. Or a second antenna, although it;s not clear to me how that would work.


Any thoughts would be welcome.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alexjohnson*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23673424
> 
> 
> Not sure if this isn't a technical board question but it's NYC-specific:
> 
> 
> I'm a recent mover so started out with a Mac mini as HTPC using EyeTV and HDHomeRun, to a Mohu Leaf.
> 
> 
> I'm in the West Village (10014) so signal strength is not a problem, but I am south-facing first floor so multipath is. Even then, it's much better than I feared.
> 
> 
> When I connect the Leaf to the TV's own tuner, it's pulling in everything. The HDHomeRun is pickier and crappier.
> 
> 
> Basically I can always get 2.1, 4.1, 7.1 and 11.1. But I kind of have to choose 9.1, or 5.1 and 11.1. (I am simplfing a little). Even then, Fox is temperamental: when I get the picture it's good, but it seems harder for the tuner to grab it in the first place. I always get 5.3. But I don't want to be adjusting the antenna every time I change channel, especially as the whole point is to have timeshifted DVR capability (and I travel internationally a lot so streaming is not a good answer for me - not just the VPN issue, but the 35,000' issue too: in fact it's those long plane rides and bad hotel wifi I have in mind.)
> 
> 
> Positioning of the Leaf also isn't quite what I'd hoped: I have to have it in the window and it gets in the way of the AC controller. Partly that's the cable length. I know they do a longer one, but it seems to be a question of rotating the things through 90 degrees, not mounting it a bit higher etc.
> 
> 
> Now, there's two ways forward. I can be zen about it and recognize I'm lucky I can get all the networks in full quality irrespective of the weather if I just adjust the antenna from time to time. But, who am I kidding: I wouldn't be posting here if I were that guy. So, I can try amplifiers (which seems pointless but again others' experience would be useful), or a different antenna. Or a second antenna, although it;s not clear to me how that would work.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts would be welcome.



no amps. try one of these, ive seen this perform better than a leaf. http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT111-Basic-Indoor-Antenna/dp/B000HKGK8Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1377617375&sr=8-2&keywords=tv+antenna


----------



## nyctveng

Those antennas are all marketing hype. I've seen antennas from the 99 cent store which is a plastic stand, a small UHF loop and 2 dipoles for VHF work better. They may not look as good but they work!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alexjohnson*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23673424
> 
> 
> Not sure if this isn't a technical board question but it's NYC-specific:
> 
> 
> I'm a recent mover so started out with a Mac mini as HTPC using EyeTV and HDHomeRun, to a Mohu Leaf.
> 
> 
> I'm in the West Village (10014) so signal strength is not a problem, but I am south-facing first floor so multipath is. Even then, it's much better than I feared.
> 
> 
> When I connect the Leaf to the TV's own tuner, it's pulling in everything. The HDHomeRun is pickier and crappier.
> 
> 
> Basically I can always get 2.1, 4.1, 7.1 and 11.1. But I kind of have to choose 9.1, or 5.1 and 11.1. (I am simplfing a little). Even then, Fox is temperamental: when I get the picture it's good, but it seems harder for the tuner to grab it in the first place. I always get 5.3. But I don't want to be adjusting the antenna every time I change channel, especially as the whole point is to have timeshifted DVR capability (and I travel internationally a lot so streaming is not a good answer for me - not just the VPN issue, but the 35,000' issue too: in fact it's those long plane rides and bad hotel wifi I have in mind.)
> 
> 
> Positioning of the Leaf also isn't quite what I'd hoped: I have to have it in the window and it gets in the way of the AC controller. Partly that's the cable length. I know they do a longer one, but it seems to be a question of rotating the things through 90 degrees, not mounting it a bit higher etc.
> 
> 
> Now, there's two ways forward. I can be zen about it and recognize I'm lucky I can get all the networks in full quality irrespective of the weather if I just adjust the antenna from time to time. But, who am I kidding: I wouldn't be posting here if I were that guy. So, I can try amplifiers (which seems pointless but again others' experience would be useful), or a different antenna. Or a second antenna, although it;s not clear to me how that would work.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts would be welcome.


----------



## reddice

I agree. If possible your best bet would be a cheap outdoor antenna and don't bother with amplified.


----------



## alexjohnson

Thanks, especially on avoiding an amp. So what I'm concluding is a different antenna from the Leaf. Unfortunately outside isn't possible, and looks do matter.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alexjohnson*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23673594
> 
> 
> Thanks, especially on avoiding an amp. So what I'm concluding is a different antenna from the Leaf. Unfortunately outside isn't possible, and looks do matter.



Go with the cheap, old-school looking antenna. I am certain it can be hidden from view. Hi-VHF channels (7, 11, and 13) do no require the dipoles to be extended more than, say, 18 inches. The remaining channels (2, 4, 5, 9, 25, 31, etc..) are UHF.


The one thing I have learned is that nothing comes for free. If aesthetics results in compromised TV reception, then feel free to pay TWC $20 / mo for Basic Service.. Multipath was the reason Manhattan was wired way before the outer boroughs.


Does your building have a master antenna?


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## alexjohnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23673635
> 
> 
> Go with the cheap, old-school looking antenna. I am certain it can be hidden from view. Hi-VHF channels (7, 11, and 13) do no require the dipoles to be extended more than, say, 18 inches. The remaining channels (2, 4, 5, 9, 25, 31, etc..) are UHF.
> 
> 
> The one thing I have learned is that nothing comes for free. If aesthetics results in compromised TV reception, then feel free to pay TWC $20 / mo for Basic Service.. Multipath was the reason Manhattan was wired way before the outer boroughs.
> 
> 
> Does your building have a master antenna?
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Thanks Doug. I'll have a look in Best Buy. The building does not have an antenna, sadly.


Actually, I would have paid TWC for ClearQAM, but they're turning it off, aren't they? That's kind of the root of the problem! As I have cable modem service anyway I think I would have gone that route otherwise.


I don't know much about those adapters for basic cable: I'd assumed they were miniature digital converters and I don't want an analog input.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alexjohnson*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23674486
> 
> 
> Thanks Doug. I'll have a look in Best Buy. The building does not have an antenna, sadly.
> 
> 
> Actually, I would have paid TWC for ClearQAM, but they're turning it off, aren't they? That's kind of the root of the problem! As I have cable modem service anyway I think I would have gone that route otherwise.
> 
> 
> I don't know much about those adapters for basic cable: I'd assumed they were miniature digital converters and I don't want an analog input.



look into https://aereo.com/ if you have MP problems and think antennas are ugly.


----------



## alexjohnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23674516
> 
> 
> look into https://aereo.com/ if you have MP problems and think antennas are ugly.



Doesn't work for me as it's a streaming solution. The main appeal of Mac EyeTV (HTPC) is having the actual files captured for travel. Of course there are "other" ways to do this but even leaving aside the legal niceties - and I'm not a priest but I do think content producers have as much right to be paid as I do - it's a hassle. OTA has the twin compelling benefits of being the best quality available, and when / if it works, effectively downloaded and archived to a schedule. I appreciate the suggestion though: I'm actually very interested in the concept and Bloomberg News has a great story on it today.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alexjohnson*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16830#post_23674486
> 
> 
> Thanks Doug. I'll have a look in Best Buy. The building does not have an antenna, sadly.
> 
> 
> Actually, I would have paid TWC for ClearQAM, but they're turning it off, aren't they? That's kind of the root of the problem! As I have cable modem service anyway I think I would have gone that route otherwise.
> 
> 
> I don't know much about those adapters for basic cable: I'd assumed they were miniature digital converters and I don't want an analog input.



Well, the cost for broadcast basic is $20/mo regardless of delivery method (Clear QAM or encrypted). It will be $21/mo with the adapter (but will be $20 w/ adapter until Jan 2015). And the adapters put out HD signals via HDMI.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps10771/7023333_a.pdf 


I have three of them myself.

If you are attempting to capture the stream for recording, then you will need to use a cable-card enabled capture device, and rent said cable card from TWC.


Go with the antenna.


----------



## alexjohnson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23674707
> 
> 
> Well, the cost for broadcast basic is $20/mo regardless of delivery method (Clear QAM or encrypted). It will be $21/mo with the adapter (but will be $20 w/ adapter until Jan 2015). And the adapters put out HD signals via HDMI.
> 
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8612/ps10771/7023333_a.pdf
> 
> 
> I have three of them myself.
> 
> If you are attempting to capture the stream for recording, then you will need to use a cable-card enabled capture device, and rent said cable card from TWC.
> 
> 
> Go with the antenna.



You inspired me to persevere. I bought the Radio Shack 15-1880 to test. While my results were at first encouraging, functionally they ended up being as far as I can tell without specialist equipment identical to using the Mohu Leaf. Both need to be in a window, which is where the Leaf has the edge being (much) less ugly, though unfortunately the optimal placement is 45° (not exact, it's highly directional) so I lose the wall-mountability and will need to buy the $5 stand. I managed to solve so that WWOR 9 is the most temperamental and the other networks are basically fine: a mild annoyance for channel surfing, but not I think a likely problem for time-shifting shows I actually want to see (with apologies to fans of _Chasing New Jersey_…).


Big picture, with a south-facing first floor location facing a reflective building across a narrow West Village street I am pleasantly surprised it works at all, particularly with something as unobtrusive as the Leaf. It's true I guess that the Leaf doesn't seem to do anything a basic antenna doesn't, but it is inexpensive, compact, not hideous, and if you can put it in a wall too close to invisible: I've become a fan.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16770#post_23606049
> 
> 
> Your Wineguard HD7010 is a better VHF than UHF antenna. That may account for some of your reception results. Combo antennas can work well for many people. For some they are bad news.
> 
> 
> Personally I have had better results from having separate VHF and UHF antennas. This way you can find the sweet spot for each. Your great VHF reception is a function of the model of antenna and height.
> 
> 
> As I have said before UHF reception may/can be a location that isn't the same as good VHF reception.



Well I am pleased to report that I discovered the culprit. A good length of old COAX.

Purchased one of those 20 dB USB antenna amps from Solid Signal a week ago, and gave one to the folks.


Installing the amp near the TV improved reception a 20-30 points on the problem stations. But when I installed it in the cellar where the new lead from the antenna enters the home. Boom. 100% across the board. They can even pick up WZME from Bridgeport and WLNY TV55 most of the time, and the antenna isn't even facing the correct direction. Everything from the west is coming in at 100 percent now.


I wonder if I'd get anything exciting (like Philly TV) if I rotated the antenna a few degrees to the southwest...


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Greg2600

 http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=network_search&network=GetTV 


Was this posted already? Apparently Sony is starting another subchannel OTA movie channel, called GetTV, this October 2013. Locally carried (oddly) on Spanish channels WFUT (Newark) 68.3 and WFTY (Smithtown) 67.3.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23726020
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=network_search&network=GetTV
> 
> 
> Was this posted already? Apparently Sony is starting another subchannel OTA movie channel, called GetTV, this October 2013. Locally carried (oddly) on Spanish channels WFUT (Newark) 68.3 and WFTY (Smithtown) 67.3.



yes, it was announced at the beginning of the year. it looks like they now have a logo. http://www.gettvchannel.com/


----------



## cjvnyc

Major props to Univision provided this is truly OTA (i.e., clear).


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23726766
> 
> 
> Major props to Univision provided this is truly OTA (i.e., clear).


Theres no reason to believe that it won't be clear unencrypted. At some point I'm sure they hope this channel is popular enough to convert from free OTA subchannel to a cable channel with steady subscriber fees like Universal Sports.


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23728475
> 
> 
> Theres no reason to believe that it won't be clear unencrypted. At some point I'm sure they hope this channel is popular enough to convert from free OTA subchannel to a cable channel with steady subscriber fees like Universal Sports.



Have any of the retro TV channels been able to find that level of viewership to convert over? Doubtful.


----------



## reddice

Any stations broadcasting on 1WTC or are all the local stations still on the EST & 4TS?


----------



## LenL

No broadcasting from 1 WTC any time soon. In fact as far as I know there are NO plans.


----------



## cjvnyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23732570
> 
> 
> No broadcasting from 1 WTC any time soon. In fact as far as I know there are NO plans.



So the spire is purely decorative?


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23732582
> 
> 
> So the spire is purely decorative?



Recent story: http://broadcastengineering.com/towersantenna/new-yorks-world-trade-center-has-new-spire-no-broadcasters-top


----------



## LenL

What was especially interesting to those of you who thought that this move would improve your reception: ......."However, one concern for broadcasters that are considering a move is the building’s height. Since 1WTC is now higher than the Empire State Building (at 1,454 feet), stations are cautious about not losing local DMA viewers by “overshooting” them. Extensive field-testing needs to be done, as the 1776 ft height of 1WTC could reduce the effective radiating power of the UHF antenna. In addition, the FCC has a rule that power levels must be LOWERED as you go higher up in elevation so as not to interfere with airline communications. But none of this can be tested without an antenna on top of 1WTC."


There is NO magic bullet for improved TV reception.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cjvnyc*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23732582
> 
> 
> So the spire is purely decorative?



YES.


----------



## reddice

But isn't the ESB maxed out of capacity on its antenna mask? Also does higher mean better when it comes to reception? Thanks.


----------



## DTVintermods




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23734386
> 
> 
> But isn't the ESB maxed out of capacity on its antenna mask? Also does higher mean better when it comes to reception? Thanks.



Higher is better PROVIDED (a) that the FCC does not lower the permitted power from ESB and (b) that the antenna is low-gain/high power so as not to lose the high density population within the first few miles from 1WTC


----------



## markrubin

re WTC:


I saw a post that the demise of Dielectric Products could further delay use of the WTC site as they were the source for the antenna and combiners: is this a factor or are there other companies that can do this?


----------



## reddice

What about radio? I heard that WKCR wants to go back to 1WTC. Then there is WPAT, WNYC & WKTU.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DTVintermods*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23734408
> 
> 
> Higher is better PROVIDED (a) that the FCC does not lower the permitted power from ESB and (b) that the antenna is low-gain/high power so as not to lose the high density population within the first few miles from 1WTC


Reception from the old 1WTC prior to 9/11 was always excellent TV & Radio of course I live near downtown Brooklyn and I was able to see the WTC from my back window.


I can even see the new 1WTC antenna mask from the back of my window. It might improve reception.


I forgot to say that I got a new Toshiba TV and OTA reception is much better. Channel 31 which is still week is only one bar but it does not break up much unlike with the old TV. Channel 7 is only 4 bars as other stations but they don't break up either.


----------



## LenL

Reddice,


1WTC DOES NOT have an Antenna Mast! I repeat it DOES NOT have an antenna mast!


What you are seeing is a decorative SPIRE! It has no function other than to give the building claim to being the tallest and adding to the massive cost of the project.


----------



## George Molnar

Len, wasn't the decorative mast deigned to eventually hold TV and FM transmitting antennas once station owners decide whether or not to lease space up there?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *George Molnar*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23737338
> 
> 
> Len, wasn't the decorative mast deigned to eventually hold TV and FM transmitting antennas once station owners decide whether or not to lease space up there?



Yes....but from the article recently referenced:


".....

Lastly, the issue of installing an antenna after the spire has been put in place could be an expensive proposition for The Durst Organization. Richard Gilbert, safety and operations manager, DCM Erectors (which built the spire), said retrofitting that antenna is now going to be tricky and much more expensive than it would have been otherwise.


“The spire was designed to support a broadcast antenna,” Gilbert said. “All of the [fiber and electrical] connections are there, but there’s no antenna at this point. I’ll tell you, it’s going to be a lot more expensive to install that antenna at a later date.”


----------



## reddice

Then they better hope the ESB does not get attacked or shut down otherwise there will be no broadcast FM or TV.


It is always good to have a backup antenna site.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23737678
> 
> 
> Then they better hope the ESB does not get attacked or shut down otherwise there will be no broadcast FM or TV.
> 
> 
> It is always good to have a backup antenna site.


All major tv stations have backup sites already. No tv station is anxious to spend millions of dollars to move to WTC and it's a wait and see.


----------



## reddice

I though that the owners of the ESB are charging high rent and the rent would have been cheaper if moving to 1WTC.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23738026
> 
> 
> I though that the owners of the ESB are charging high rent and the rent would have been cheaper if moving to 1WTC.


ESB knew that they were the only game in town for a while so they can charge high rents. 1WTC will give stations some leverage in negotiating future rates but since 9/11 so much money and manpower was invested into current facilities that no one is rushing to switchover. Any move to WTC will not be to save money but to either have some redundancy or to improve coverage. The best thing for OTA viewers is to have stations use 1 of the 2 as primary and other as secondary similar to what CBS had prior to 9/11 but that isnt cheap. Secondary sites like 4TS or Trump just doesn't cover the market as good.


----------



## LenL

Problem is that after you are lured to a new building with low ball rent it gets jacked up after the sweetheart deal is over and they have you by the short hairs.


A move to 1WTC is not always so economically advantageous if in the longer term you will be paying more.....and more...and more


----------



## AntAltMike

I don't have much inside knowledge of tower leasing deals, but I had discussed them with two local TV stations some years ago, and they both indicated that the typical lease intervals were 10 to 15 years, so the tower rental market is not really very volatile.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23747165
> 
> 
> Problem is that after you are lured to a new building with low ball rent it gets jacked up after the sweetheart deal is over and they have you by the short hairs.
> 
> 
> A move to 1WTC is not always so economically advantageous if in the longer term you will be paying more.....and more...and more





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AntAltMike*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23747341
> 
> 
> I don't have much inside knowledge of tower leasing deals, but I had discussed them with two local TV stations some years ago, and they both indicated that the typical lease intervals were 10 to 15 years, so the tower rental market is not really very volatile.



Not only is the length of the lease a variable, but you need to determine the up-front capital cost of the move. Remember, a station is not going to go dark while they pack up their gear and move. A station will need to buy a second set of gear, have it delivered, set up, installed, tested, etc.., and then move the signal to the new installation, then decommission the old installation (or pay to maintain backup).


How much additional revenue is the station expected to make by undertaking such a move?


Not much... and probably take a loss.. I am sure the experts will correct me if I an wrong.



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## George Molnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16860#post_23747561
> 
> 
> 
> Not only is the length of the lease a variable, but you need to determine the up-front capital cost of the move. Remember, a station is not going to go dark while they pack up their gear and move. A station will need to buy a second set of gear, have it delivered, set up, installed, tested, etc.., and then move the signal to the new installation, then decommission the old installation (or pay to maintain backup).
> 
> 
> How much additional revenue is the station expected to make by undertaking such a move?
> 
> 
> Not much... and probably take a loss.. I am sure the experts will correct me if I an wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug


How long until the stations' property atop ESB is fully depreciated? Even if fully depreciated, the stations still have to pay property taxes. If they don't renew their lease, they have to vacate the premises and return in good condition.


----------



## SubaruB4

sigh.. I always lose CBS and NBC at night but they come back during the day time..


----------



## LenL

You might need a bigger/better antenna.


----------



## SubaruB4

Yeah I think so too, however I'm going to be getting cable back in the late fall so I would be only keeping OTA as backup if they have any more channel disputes.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SubaruB4*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23764560
> 
> 
> Yeah I think so too, however I'm going to be getting cable back in the late fall so I would be only keeping OTA as backup if they have any more channel disputes.


Friend of mine, about 4miles from ESB, he has roof Antenna and on his Samsung can not get ch.2 CBS and ch.4 NBC, now he talks about getting " digital Antenna".

I also get drop signal on ch.2 and ch.4 on DTV, it is little annoying


----------



## AloEuro

It is kind of paradox that the cheap 40-60 $ converter boxes have better features than the DigitalTV.

the Converter Box has Signal level ...... the DTV does not have

it has EPG some boxes Now/Next other 12hrs...... DTV does not

Full Scan 1min to 5/7min. depending upon the boxes...... DTV 30min + and must complete full circle scan

the big difference is the PQ - it is tale of two worlds, conv. box of 480i no comparison to DTV 480i and higher


----------



## cjvnyc

Can someone post in here whenever GetTV is on air, so I can know to rescan? Cheers.


----------



## SubaruB4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23794256
> 
> 
> Friend of mine, about 4miles from ESB, he has roof Antenna and on his Samsung can not get ch.2 CBS and ch.4 NBC, now he talks about getting " digital Antenna".
> 
> I also get drop signal on ch.2 and ch.4 on DTV, it is little annoying


Hmm... odd My tv is also a Samsung with a OTA tuner like right now 2 & 4 come in fine with a pretty strong signal, but around 7-8 PM it's gone.. I assume it has something to do with the signal propagation at night, at least that's all I can think of.. I highly doubt they would change signal powers.


----------



## AvidHiker

No problems here with 2 or 4 from 20 miles ESE of ESB. Not roof mounted, so no line-of-sight, but aimed properly.


AloEuro, you are generalizing there about DTVs, but I know some do have poor quality tuners. From what I've heard, Samsung provides very good tuners in their TVs.


My 1080p Samsung plasma TV (D7000) has an excellent OTA tuner. It scans quickly (1-2 minutes), shows signal strength (basic, 5-bar display) and includes a full EPG that covers the entire broadcast day. I feel sorry for anyone relegated to 480i or composite video in this day and age.


----------



## LenL

I own 2 Sharp HD TVs and a Samsung. My Samsung has a much better tuner.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AvidHiker*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23795522
> 
> 
> No problems here with 2 or 4 from 20 miles ESE of ESB. Not roof mounted, so no line-of-sight, but aimed properly.
> 
> 
> AloEuro, you are generalizing there about DTVs, but I know some do have poor quality tuners. From what I've heard, Samsung provides very good tuners in their TVs.
> 
> 
> My 1080p Samsung plasma TV (D7000) has an excellent OTA tuner. It scans quickly (1-2 minutes), shows signal strength (basic, 5-bar display) and includes a full EPG that covers the entire broadcast day. I feel sorry for anyone relegated to 480i or composite video in this day and age.


It is good to know that the new line DTV sets have all those features you and I were writing about. thank you


----------



## nyctveng

 http://broadcastengineering.com/towersantenna/one-world-trade-center-awaits-fcc-s-repacking-decisions-new-broadcast-tenants


----------



## LenL

Thanks NYCTVENG!


I extracted this part which is every interesting:

....."The FCC has an auction of some of the spectrum. It is tentatively scheduled for June 2014. They want to clear 10 channels in the band nationwide to be able to offer it to broadband to sell. So, they are repacking some of the channels."


Lyons said there will be an upper UHF and a lower UHF spectrum with a separation of the band in the middle.


“But in some markets, some of those UHF stations may move to the VHF channels,” Lyons said. “Until the auction actually takes place middle of next year, or a year out from right now, we don’t know exactly which channels these stations are going to a) be voluntarily move to or b) be forced to move to, to know what antennas I need to actually put up there.”


New York City is expected to have several high-band VHF stations. A major remaining question involves the breakdown of UHF versus VHF allocations. The FCC will issue an NPRM late this year, which gives an outline of the allocation table. At that point, it will open up for a lot broader discussion and the broadcasters will have a pretty good idea of where they’ll end up.."


I could not tell if they were looking to grab 10 UHF channels (would this be RF channels like 31, 32, 33, etc.) in the middle of the RF band or at the ends of the UHF RF band. Also they are looking to make more use of high VHF for TV. So anyone with poor VHF reception may have to get a better VHF antenna. Also since higher is better for VHF then a move to 1 WTC may help VHF reception.


----------



## AloEuro

Ch.42- 1,2,3,4,5,6 become weekend broadcast with pixelation

Ch 23- 1,2;3,4, 0-15 signal

Ch.32- 1 CCTVEnglish

32- 2 CCTVChinese audio/Spanish subtitles

32- 3 CCTV4 china

32-4 WXNY

Ch.32 was off the air for while, my conv.box picked it up but though using the same Antenna connection the DTV did not


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23817910
> 
> 
> Thanks NYCTVENG!
> 
> 
> I extracted this part which is every interesting:
> 
> ....."The FCC has an auction of some of the spectrum. It is tentatively scheduled for June 2014. They want to clear 10 channels in the band nationwide to be able to offer it to broadband to sell. So, they are repacking some of the channels."
> 
> ............
> 
> I could not tell if they were looking to grab 10 UHF channels (would this be RF channels like 31, 32, 33, etc.) in the middle of the RF band or at the ends of the UHF RF band. Also they are looking to make more use of high VHF for TV. So anyone with poor VHF reception may have to get a better VHF antenna. Also since higher is better for VHF then a move to 1 WTC may help VHF reception.


the ch. 31 and up range to 40 have lot's of room

ch.31 is also on ch.12

ch.32 was on hiatus, now is back maybe for bargaining position

ch.33 is domain of ch.2 CBS

ch.34 is FoxMundo on 9-4

ch.35 is also on ch.24-2.3

ch.36 is domain of 47Telemundo

ch.37 and 38 and 40 are empty and ch.39 has lot, 8 or 9 subs of weak signal


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23826064
> 
> 
> 
> the ch. 31 and up range to 40 have lot's of room
> 
> ch.31 is also on ch.12
> 
> ch.32 was on hiatus, now is back maybe for bargaining position
> 
> ch.33 is domain of ch.2 CBS
> 
> ch.34 is FoxMundo on 9-4
> 
> ch.35 is also on ch.24-2.3
> 
> ch.36 is domain of 47Telemundo
> 
> ch.37 and 38 and 40 are empty and ch.39 has lot, 8 or 9 subs of weak signal




37 is reserved for radio astronomy and there's a little station on 38 called WWOR you may have heard of


----------



## reddice

Then why do all TV's have the ability to tune to 37 then?


----------



## AntAltMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23829232
> 
> 
> Then why do all TV's have the ability to tune to 37 then?



Good question.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Because it would take more effort or cost to tune it out rather than just include and ignore it.


----------



## AntAltMike

More likely, it would cause needless confusion by purchasers who would think that there is something wrong with their tuner. Each channel is just an entry in a channel plan program.


----------



## n2ubp

2 and 4 are rock solid with roof antenna 50 miles NW of ESB. 7 is only seen early mornings, by afternoon it is gone. 13 is hit or miss.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *n2ubp*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23833811
> 
> 
> 2 and 4 are rock solid with roof antenna 50 miles NW of ESB. 7 is only seen early mornings, by afternoon it is gone. 13 is hit or miss.



Can't really comment w/o knowing the equipment you are using.


----------



## Aero 1

half way through october and still no GetTV...


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23842541
> 
> 
> half way through october and still no GetTV...


Yesterday. I saw on 17-1 something like GetTV.org with preacher, it is christian broadcast, among others showing 700Club and the likes

17-3 is entirely Korean Christian broadcast


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23842541
> 
> 
> half way through october and still no GetTV...



well cause it hasn't launched yet. As mentioned on this thread before it will be a subchannel of WFUT & WFTY.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23850322
> 
> 
> Yesterday. I saw on 17-1 something like GetTV.org with preacher, it is christian broadcast, among others showing 700Club and the likes
> 
> 17-3 is entirely Korean Christian broadcast



thats a different gettv on a different channel. Im talking about the new movie channel.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23850500
> 
> 
> well cause it hasn't launched yet. As mentioned on this thread before it will be a subchannel of WFUT & WFTY.



well obviously, it was just a conversation starter and i know its going on the spanish channel, i posted it.


----------



## cjvnyc

Sony is the king of vaporware.


----------



## fredd

Reception on channels 2,4,5,9, and 11 have been very spotty the last couple of weeks here in central NJ. Is there work going on at the ESB transmitters/antennas or is there just a lot of extreme EM interference lately? Sun spots? Solar flares? reduced transmitter power? The reception on these channels was o.k. for several years until recently, but now we're getting a lot of pixellation/dropouts, mostly in the evening around 6 to 11 PM. Any notions what's going on?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fredd*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23862136
> 
> 
> Reception on channels 2,4,5,9, and 11 have been very spotty the last couple of weeks here in central NJ. Is there work going on at the ESB transmitters/antennas or is there just a lot of extreme EM interference lately? Sun spots? Solar flares? reduced transmitter power? The reception on these channels was o.k. for several years until recently, but now we're getting a lot of pixellation/dropouts, mostly in the evening around 6 to 11 PM. Any notions what's going on?



No problems noticed here in Randolph so far. Expecting some changes with the change in seasons and leaf fall.


Tell us about your antenna, etc......


----------



## fredd

I've got a 8 bay bow-tie with a rotor and mast mounted, low noise, 15db gain amp, at a 30 foot elevation-agl (we're ~91 ft. asl). About 50ft of RG6 downlead and gen.4 ATSC tuner. As I mentioned in the previous post, reception here has been very good (for several years now) until just a few weeks ago when we started losing 2 & 4 sporatically and 5 ,9, &11 for days at a time. Someone on another thread mentioned that there has been an abnormal increase in tropospheric activity lately so I was wondering if anyone on this thread has been experiencing similar reception problems (or knows of problems at the ESB transmitters).


----------



## LenL

Ok..thanks for the info. We need to see if someone near you using OTA has the same issue. If not, it may be something with your exact location or your equipment.


As I said where I am at there have not been any issues....so perhaps you are seeing more tropo than I am if that is possible. I can't tell how far from me you are.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fredd*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16890#post_23862136
> 
> 
> Reception on channels 2,4,5,9, and 11 have been very spotty the last couple of weeks here in central NJ. Is there work going on at the ESB transmitters/antennas or is there just a lot of extreme EM interference lately? Sun spots? Solar flares? reduced transmitter power? The reception on these channels was o.k. for several years until recently, but now we're getting a lot of pixellation/dropouts, mostly in the evening around 6 to 11 PM. Any notions what's going on?



Since it sounds likes its localized to your location and consistently at the same hours, see what has changed recently. Could very well be lights that are used in your home or nearby that interferes with reception. I've heard and seen anything from porch lights to halogen lamps turned on during evening hours that can interfere with tv.


----------



## rothe

Define "central NJ." I'm in Ocean Grove, and I've certainly been having more trouble lately getting my two favorite off-axis stations. (NJTV and WLIW are my only two receivable PBS sources. WNET is just barely too weak for me to pick up reliably, but these two usually come in even though they're somewhat off-axis from where my main antenna is pointed.) I've attributed the diminished reception to atmospheric conditions, but there may be some new interference sources that I haven't identified yet.


Len had a problem with a neighbor's LED lighting that he identified with a portable radio. You may have some similar issues going on.


In Len's case, I had offered to rent my spectrum analyzer for cheap, but the radio trick was sufficient to localize the interference. If you're *very nearby* for me, you might talk me into stopping by with the analyzer.


----------



## rothe

Wow!


I just took my own advice, and grabbed a portable radio and walked around the house. I switched it to the AM band with a weak station tuned in, and just listened for hum and static.


The CFLs and T-5s (thin, long tube fluorescent bulbs) scattered around the house made a small amount of noise that diminished quickly as soon as I pulled the radio a foot or two away from the noise source. An old T12 fixture in my basement made a bit more noise, but nothing that I would consider alarming. And the LED bulbs that I'm using in outdoor fixtures with motion sensors (Heath-Zenith and R.A.B.) were actually very quiet.


But I found one floor lamp - an old, halogen "Torchiere" with a dimmer - that radiated enough hum and static to be picked up ten feet away. I'm sure this is enough RF noise to affect my roof antenna, mounted roughly 30 feet straight up from this lamp.


Guess what I'll be replacing tomorrow?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23868849
> 
> 
> Define "central NJ." I'm in Ocean Grove, and I've certainly been having more trouble lately getting my two favorite off-axis stations. (NJTV and WLIW are my only two receivable PBS sources. WNET is just barely too weak for me to pick up reliably, but these two usually come in even though they're somewhat off-axis from where my main antenna is pointed.) I've attributed the diminished reception to atmospheric conditions, but there may be some new interference sources that I haven't identified yet.
> 
> 
> Len had a problem with a neighbor's LED lighting that he identified with a portable radio. You may have some similar issues going on.
> 
> 
> In Len's case, I had offered to rent my spectrum analyzer for cheap, but the radio trick was sufficient to localize the interference. If you're *very nearby* for me, you might talk me into stopping by with the analyzer.



LED lighting ONLY impact's reception for VHF stations 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1. It would not impact all of his channels.


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.mhznetworks.org/about/press/new-york-city-surrounding-area-gains-access-mhz-worldview-mhz-international-mysteries 


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23870452
> 
> http://www.mhznetworks.org/about/press/new-york-city-surrounding-area-gains-access-mhz-worldview-mhz-international-mysteries
> 
> 
> - Trip



Supposedly on channel 66 which is WFME out of West Milford NJ. Already has sub channels and poor quality.


----------



## Trip in VA

Sounds like they're replacing the current programming on 66-1.


- Trip


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23870375
> 
> 
> LED lighting ONLY impact's reception for VHF stations 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1. It would not impact all of his channels.



I wouldn't be so certain. If the interference is strong enough, a tuner or preamp or amplifier could be overloaded. That could affect all channels, intermittently too if the interference source is transient like from a motion sensor or noisy dimmer like the one I found at home. That dimmer was mostly affecting me on WLIW, which is a UHF channel.


----------



## LenL

My LED issues with my neighbors lights only impacted VHF stations and all my research at the time indicated LEDs impact VHF only.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23871143
> 
> 
> Sounds like they're replacing the current programming on 66-1.
> 
> 
> - Trip



If that was the case wouldn't there be news about WFME being sold etc?


----------



## Trip in VA

The Family Stations are being sold off piecemeal (see 94.7 FM) and it wouldn't surprise me if this is placeholder programming.


Who, other than maybe Daystar, would buy a non-commercial TV station anyway?


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23870452
> 
> http://www.mhznetworks.org/about/press/new-york-city-surrounding-area-gains-access-mhz-worldview-mhz-international-mysteries
> 
> 
> - Trip



Hey Trip! Thank you for breaking some interesting news here.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23871780
> 
> 
> If that was the case wouldn't there be news about WFME being sold etc?



I actually may be able to confirm that a sale of WFME-TV West Milford is imminent. The licensee name was recently changed. The call-sign of WNYJ-TV has been requested by the current licensee. And check out the station's website:

http://www.wfme.net/ 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23871965
> 
> 
> The Family Stations are being sold off piecemeal (see 94.7 FM) and it wouldn't surprise me if this is placeholder programming.
> 
> 
> Who, other than maybe Daystar, would buy a non-commercial TV station anyway?
> 
> 
> - Trip



The question is: Does the channel 29 allocation in West Milford, NJ. have this restriction? When the channel 66 allocation was originally made in the mid 1980s, the FCC mandated the station license be restricted as "Educational". That license was surrendered on February 17, 2009 when WFME-TV discontinued Analog broadcasting, and the station continued broadcasting in Digital on channel 29. But does that same license restriction apply in this Digital era, and at a time when the engineer-bereft FCC wants to sell-off upper-end spectrum to the cellular companies? While channel 29 is not within the target-range, it is very close. Regardless, this is a VERY valuable license and should Family Stations decide to sell it, the "non-profit" corporation will profit VERY nicely. Again.


We should all feel terrible for those in the NYC metro area who are loyal fans of "The Joy of Music with Diane Bish". For them, November 1, 2013 will truly be a sad day


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23879471
> 
> 
> I actually may be able to confirm that a sale of WFME-TV West Milford is imminent. The licensee name was recently changed. The call-sign of WNYJ-TV has been requested by the current licensee. And check out the station's website:
> 
> http://www.wfme.net/



At the moment, a sale of WFME-TV West Milford seems highly likely. However, a PSOA (the non-commercial equivalent of a LMA) might be what is happening, at least for now.


Check out the new WNYJ website: http://www.wnyj.org/ . According to the Find Us > Over The Air section, MHz programming will be airing on virtual channels 66-1 through 66-4. So this prompts a question: Will *MHz Worldview* air on the main channel, 66-1, and be duplicated on the three successive subchannels? Or will the subchannels feature unique programming, possibly from international channels they presently air in Washington, DC, such as CCTV, France24, or RT?


This indicates that the present *Family Radio* feeds will either be relocated on the channel, or eliminated altogether. If they are dropped, this is yet another indication that Family Radio programming likely is nearing a permanent end. Family Stations sold the class B 94.7FM signal licensed to Newark, NJ. they owned for nearly fifty years last year to Cumulus Media, and as part of the sale they acquired a rimshot on 106.3FM licensed to Mount Kisco, NY. that Cumulus was looking to unload. Family Stations moved the WFME programming there, but the signal barely makes it out past it's primary predicated contour. Family Radio could have promoted that the programming was also available over WFME-DT2, but they didn't and I don't think they give a damn anymore anyway. A few months ago, WFME-TV dropped virtual channel 66-6, *Radio Taiwan International*, and virtual channel 66-7, *KWO35: NOAA Weather Radio*, both of these being "Audio Only" streams.


It is unknown whether the *MiND TV* reciprocating agreement will continue, but I would think the *MiND TV* programming would compliment MHz programming.


Also of note is the WNYJ - Contact Us section. Apparently, WNYJ will be based out of 289 Mount Pleasant Avenue in West Orange, NJ., the past and present home of the WFME studios. Jason Frentsos, a holdover from WFME-TV, will be the Station Manager for the new WNYJ.


WFME-TV has essentially been a waste of 200,000 watts and a 6 MHz swath of spectrum in the #1 market. While I have no objection to Religious programming or airing Biblical readings on television, I would guess no one was watching this station. It is hard to find a TV station that airs less compelling programming. Furthermore, considering the credibility damage Family Stations CEO Harold Camping did to the network, few people believed anything their stations aired after 2011. In fact, WFME-TV still references the "End of the Church age" in pre-2011 promos for free literature.


Overall, *MHz Worldview* will bring more diversity and a unique educational service to Television in the New York City Metropolitan region. It will be refreshing to see this new service, and it would be even better if they brought along some more unique programming services to the three subchannels they apparently will be making use of come November 1, 2013.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16900_100#post_23879471
> 
> 
> The question is: Does the channel 29 allocation in West Milford, NJ. have this restriction?



Yes.


> Quote:
> But does that same license restriction apply in this Digital era, and at a time when the engineer-bereft FCC wants to sell-off upper-end spectrum to the cellular companies? While channel 29 is not within the target-range, it is very close.



I would not be surprised if this is less of a sale and more of a deal like KCSM in San Francisco is doing, which amusingly is also carrying MHz Worldview on its main channel now. Could even be the same company. It's basically an LMA from the current owner with an agreement that any profit from the incentive auction is shared.


Any UHF channel is in "the target-range" since repacking means that a different NY station could be placed on 29 (like WNJN, for example) in order to free up the upper end of the band.


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*MHz WorldView*, Welcome to New Jersey and New York!


As 12 Midnight, MHz WorldView is now being programmed to the New York City metro area over Channel 29, still officially WFME-TV West Milford.


Throughout October 31, 2013, the station's last day of being programmed by Family Radio as "Family Educational Television, WFME-TV 66", programming was normal with no special references to the impending changeover except for a horizontal scroll that was occasionally rolled just after the start of some programs. The scroll's typeface looked exactly like the scroll used over WFME-TV's Analog Channel 66 in the days prior to the February 2009 shut-down of that signal.


Sometime during the morning or afternoon of this last day, Family Radio dropped two of its remaining audio subchannels: The Family Radio West Coast Feed on channel 66-3 and the Family Radio Foreign Language Feed on channel 66-5. They also changed the PSIP on channel 66-1 from "WFME-TV" to "WNYJ".


The final show to air was "Hymn Sing" hosted by Gary Burgett. Following the conclusion of that half-hour show, there were two PSAs and one final "Family Educational Television, WFME-TV 66" Station ID. Following a normal fade-to-black, there was a video glitch indicating a switch was executed at exactly 12 Midnight. Then MHz WorldView programming immediately began. The first show to air was _*Braquo*: Running After the Night_ (S01, E05/First Aired: Nov. 27, 2011). The episode summary is: Eddy works to release Walter; Roxane makes a tough decision. This series has English subtitles. During this episode, there was a brief on-air ID bug at lower-right which read "WNYJ West Milford". This only appeared once, and has not appeared again during the time I have watched the station. Another episode of _*Braquo*_ followed at 1AM. Then at 2AM and beyond, various Asian newscasts and documentaries from NHK and CCTV.

_Editor's Opinion_: Tonight's launch, while not flashy or obvious, satisfied to establish a definite contrast between the past and future programming on this channel. Within the first half-hour, there was intrigue, suspense, mild violence, mystery, and if all that didn't convince viewers that a new chapter began for channel 29 from West Milford, transmitting out of West Orange, NJ., the very first show included a female nurse happily providing a urine sample for one of the characters, Theo, in front of him... and everyone else watching this episode. When he suggests a little horizontal payback for her generosity, she obliges him right away. Of course there was no nudity, but the acting and camera angles helped convey the sense of realism of this scene.


Following this show, the plethora of international newscasts was a refreshing contrast to the typical newscasts produced here in the U.S. These international reports on real issues contain substance without the agenda pushing and dumbed-down delivery with mindless anchor banter that has become a staple of U.S. cable and even broadcast news during the past 15+ years.


I am very impressed with MHz WorldView. The fact that the New York metropolitan area has gone so long without this network is further evidence of how stuck in second gear the TV and radio broadcast situation is here in this market. Independent ownership of broadcast licenses is why markets like Los Angeles and Chicago have such a diverse selection of domestic and international programming, and the New York market hardly ever changes.


It is also further proof of the need to encourage independent ownership of broadcast licenses, and not allow big corporations to monopolize the public spectrum through expansion of the ownership rules.


----------



## Trip in VA

Did the MiND TV simulcast continue on 66-4? And is there nothing on 66-3 now? Just trying to reconcile the programming against what's on the WNYJ website.


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Good Morning, Trip!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23898655
> 
> 
> Did the MiND TV simulcast continue on 66-4? And is there nothing on 66-3 now? Just trying to reconcile the programming against what's on the WNYJ website.
> 
> 
> - Trip



The WNYJ website indicates the future plans for this station. It is my understanding from a friend in the know that MHz has plans to expand its offerings to other channel 29 subchannels, hopefully in the very near future.


What has occurred earlier this morning could be best described as a soft launch.


Up until yesterday, October 31, WFME-TV had a primary and four subchannels, 66-1 through 66-5. The "RTI" and "NOAA" audio-only subchannels, -6 and -7, were eliminated altogether about two to three months ago following the July 2013 shutdown of Family Radio's Shortwave station WYFR Okeechobee, Florida, which carried Radio Taiwan International (RTI), and then the subsequent shutdown (except for emergencies) of NOAA Weather Radio station KWO35.


Sometime yesterday, before 4PM, WFME-TV eliminated altogether audio-only subchannel -3, which had been carrying "Family Radio West Coast Feed", and audio-only subchannel -5, which had been carrying "Family Radio Foreign Language Feed". Simultaneously, they changed the PSIP name on the primary channel from "WFME-TV" to "WNYJ".


66-4 remains active and is still carrying MiND TV. The stuttering video problem this subchannel has had for nearly a year continues as well.


I just checked your RabbitEars.info website, and your listings are correct, except that the PSIP short name for 66-1 is "WNYJ".


That being said, the official records still list the station as being WFME-TV West Milford.


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks for the info. I've fixed my listing to reflect WNYJ as the short channel name.


According to the WFME website, WFME-FM will continue to air on 66-2. I wonder if MiND will continue to run on 66-4 and/or if MHz will now be back on WYBE via 35-66.


And to your discussion of independent ownership, are you sure it's independent? I know KCSM in San Francisco is being run in a very similar way (with MHz Worldview on the .1 channel) as part of a deal with LocusPoint Broadcasting to sell the license in the incentive auction.


- Trip


----------



## seamus21514

Pretty impressed with the programming, the 4 hours of Irish programming is really good quality.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

double post, please delete


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Channel 29 is now officially WNYJ-TV West Milford. The new call-sign became effective on November 1, 2013.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23898748
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. I've fixed my listing to reflect WNYJ as the short channel name.
> 
> 
> According to the WFME website, WFME-FM will continue to air on 66-2. I wonder if MiND will continue to run on 66-4 and/or if MHz will now be back on WYBE via 35-66.
> 
> 
> And to your discussion of independent ownership, are you sure it's independent? I know KCSM in San Francisco is being run in a very similar way (with MHz Worldview on the .1 channel) as part of a deal with LocusPoint Broadcasting to sell the license in the incentive auction.
> 
> 
> - Trip



WNYJ-TV is about as independent as can be found in the New York television market. Just about every other non-affiliated station is either low-power/CD and hard to receive, low-power/CD and waiting for an auction opportunity, full-power and reserved for ethnic and/or foreign language programming, or full-power and reserved for the licensee's personal network.


I do not know what Family Stations has planned for this station. I would guess whatever option is most financially lucrative for them will be that which is exercised sooner or later. The WFME.net website is contradicting; It says they had to sell WFME-TV, yet the official records reflect the license as being transferred into a company-owned LLC subsidiary. Perhaps their reason for doing this was to pacify the few donors and viewers that were left after May and October 2011, and to also save face by not admitting that the programming they were airing up until last night was netting next to no viewers, and therefore next to no donations. Or perhaps an outright sale is on the horizon or in the works. Or perhaps it is an arrangement similar to that you referenced with KCSM.


It is safe to say that with this move, Family Stations is completely out of the television content producing business.


Family Stations dug itself into a credibility and financial hole because they blindly followed Harold Camping and his ginormous ego, and not the Lord they proclaimed. In fact, credibility has been a commodity this non-profit has been lacking for the past few years.


I was the one who broke the news in early 2012 on another media site that the WFME radio license for 94.7FM Newark had been converted from non-commercial to commercial, and that Family Stations would sell the station. About two weeks later, during a Saturday public affairs program called "Weekend Calendar" hosted by the station manager, Charlie Menut, this topic was addressed due to the voluminous discussion that my announcement was stirring up. Mr. Menut acknowledged the "rumors" of a station sale, and he unequivocally stated that these were nothing more than rumors, and that he had recently spoken with Harold Camping, and that WFME was not then and would not be for sale. By the end of 2012, Cumulus Media, through voluntary acquisition for a nominal consideration, held the license to that station, the call-sign was changed to WNSH, and country music under the branding "Nash FM" was being programmed.


So when trying to speculate about what Family Stations is going to do, keep in mind that either they don't even know, or they just don't want to say.


----------



## LenL

Family Stations would probably tell you it is in God's hands!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23898748
> 
> 
> And to your discussion of independent ownership, are you sure it's independent? I know KCSM in San Francisco is being run in a very similar way (with MHz Worldview on the .1 channel) as part of a deal with LocusPoint Broadcasting to sell the license in the incentive auction.
> 
> 
> - Trip


I'd like to revisit this, and welcome discussion from Trip and anyone else. Is WNYJ-TV an independent TV station? I would say yes, considering that it now stands alone without any network affiliation. At the moment, it is still owned by Family Stations, which apparently no longer operates a TV network, and the local station offers three streams each whose programming is separate, unique, and unrelated. There is presently no other terrestrial TV station on the air anywhere else in this country, of which I'm aware, that offers the exact same slate of channels currently programmed on WNYJ-TV.


Unlike New York market TV stations of the past, such as WOR-TV (later WWOR-TV and prior to the "UPN" era), and WPIX (prior to the "WB" era), which were officially categorized as "Independent" and sometimes marketed themselves as such, WNYJ-TV does not boast any independent or network status. It merely exists.


Has the definition of "Independent station" changed with the digital transition? Does a station lose its independent status if all or some of its subchannels carry either a major or minor network (such as "CBS" as to the former and "Bounce" as to the latter)? Does the definition change based upon the licensee's intentions to LMA, hold, or sell the station? Are there now different degrees of "Independent" stations?


----------



## n2ubp

Contrary to previous posted opinions, I'd like to nominate channel 48, WRNN, as the biggest waste of bandwidth in the Hudson Valley, unless of course you've found a bamboo steamer you really gotta have.


----------



## speedlaw

Night reception for channel 7.1


OTA here, about 40 miles up the Hudson. I have an odd problem. I prefer the OTA channels to the CATV channels, so have a "far fringe" antenna on the roof. The antenna is pointed at NYC, and does a great job with FM stereo, most OTA TV, but.....


I have issues evening prime time on 7.1. All the other channels work, the signal strength is good, but the last few attempts to record with a tivo during primetime have resulted in mad macroblocks, rendering the thing unwatchable. Other channels, OK, and to increase WIF I've even had to go back to the CATV feed for these recordings










I'm a ham radio op, and can access VHF repeaters on 2 meters (near the WABC allocation, sorta) with five watts from an omnidirectional, so I'd think my big yagi pointed at NYC would be sufficent. Again, all the other signals coming down that wire are normal otherwise.



Does ABC drop power at night ? I'm normally in a very stable signal area and get all the NYC broadcast stations. I don't get WLIW because of some hills in the way, but the NYC DMA is no issue...but for channel 7.1.


Thanks !


----------



## Trip in VA

You could be seeing interference from WXXA in Albany.


And, of course, your 5W on 2 meters is only spread over 25 kHz instead of the 6 MHz used for TV.










- Trip


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23936045
> 
> 
> You could be seeing interference from WXXA in Albany.
> 
> 
> And, of course, your 5W on 2 meters is only spread over 25 kHz instead of the 6 MHz used for TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



True, but I'm on the side of a hill, 250 or so feet above the Hudson Valley. I have line of sight down the river, and have worked all the way to south jersey on 2 meter sideband...as far as behind me, the hill I'm on goes to 600-800 feet, and is a blind alley. If I listen on my scanner, I can hear south very well, but stations to the north are a tough catch. I can't get any CT stations, and also cannot work past the Nassau/Suffolk line on ham frequencies due to the hills. I doubt that Albany anything gets to me.


Back in the analog day, I was able to get lo vhf ch 3 from Philly very well, and even sometimes 6, but if it north of me, or west of me, it's radio silence.


I can't turn my antenna...never needed to, NYC hasn't moved....but I am curious now....


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey speedlaw,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedlaw*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23935679
> 
> 
> Night reception for channel 7.1
> 
> 
> OTA here, about 40 miles up the Hudson. I have an odd problem. I prefer the OTA channels to the CATV channels, so have a "far fringe" antenna on the roof. The antenna is pointed at NYC, and does a great job with FM stereo, most OTA TV, but.....
> 
> 
> I have issues evening prime time on 7.1. All the other channels work, the signal strength is good, but the last few attempts to record with a tivo during primetime have resulted in mad macroblocks, rendering the thing unwatchable. Other channels, OK, and to increase WIF I've even had to go back to the CATV feed for these recordings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a ham radio op, and can access VHF repeaters on 2 meters (near the WABC allocation, sorta) with five watts from an omnidirectional, so I'd think my big yagi pointed at NYC would be sufficent. Again, all the other signals coming down that wire are normal otherwise.
> 
> 
> Does ABC drop power at night ? I'm normally in a very stable signal area and get all the NYC broadcast stations. I don't get WLIW because of some hills in the way, but the NYC DMA is no issue...but for channel 7.1.
> 
> 
> Thanks !


WABC-TV wouldn't drop power unless they were performing maintenance, and that would likely happen between 1AM and 5AM.


Interesting the problem only manifests after night fall. Have you observed any new lighting installations nearby, such as road lamps, traffic signals, or business signs? Perhaps outdoor lighting at a nearby resident's house?


As a Ham operator, you are aware of the band vulnerabilities and why the channel 7 allocation is most susceptible to external interference.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


If it is LED or other interference with VHF TV signals there would also be problems with the other VHF stations like 11.1 and 13.1. There was NO mention of this. My experience with LED interference was it impacted 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23938589
> 
> 
> Giacomo,
> 
> 
> If it is LED or other interference with VHF TV signals there would also be problems with the other VHF stations like 11.1 and 13.1. There was NO mention of this. My experience with LED interference was it impacted 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1.


In your case, it was a nearby neighbor. The interference was intensified by the close proximity, and affected the entire band. If similar interference is presenting problems for speedlaw, it could be more distant and having less of an impact.


The only other possibility I can think of at the moment could be a nearby FM station or pirate operating at the low-end of the FM band


----------



## rothe

The fact that this is happening after nightfall points to lighting as a primary suspect. Try this trick that has helped for a few of us: grab an AM radio and tune it to a weak station. Walk around the house or neighborhood and take note of any strong sources of hum. if that doesn't turn up anything, then message me and I'll tell you about a spectrum analyzer that I have available for a cheap rental rate. But try the radio first.


----------



## speedlaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rothe*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_23945236
> 
> 
> The fact that this is happening after nightfall points to lighting as a primary suspect. Try this trick that has helped for a few of us: grab an AM radio and tune it to a weak station. Walk around the house or neighborhood and take note of any strong sources of hum. if that doesn't turn up anything, then message me and I'll tell you about a spectrum analyzer that I have available for a cheap rental rate. But try the radio first.



I'm going to give this a shot....I tried turning off all my CFL lights, no change. I'm getting a very solid 87 on the signal gauge, and it is all exploding macroblocks.....channel RF 7....


----------



## LenL

Some questions for you:


1. Are any other VHF stations impacted? Do you receive 11.1 and 13.1 OK?


2. Also try your radio FM band as you walk around. Interference on the FM band can indicate issues with VHF TV too.


----------



## n2ubp

Casey, I have trouble with 7.x in Middletown as well. I recently spoke with a gentleman who is familiar with the ESB antenna system. Without getting too technical, the bottom line, based on his knowledge, 7 is located towards the bottom of the combined antenna used for VHF high band. This and the antenna characteristics are not optimum for 7.x cause receive problems for some of us in certain locations.

Steve - N2UBP


----------



## jpru34

FOX 5 - Reception has been rather spotty the last 3 days. All other channels are the same at or near 100%. Not sure what the deal is with Fox.


----------



## LenL

It your specific situation. I'm further out and not having any issues. In fact since the leaves have come down reception has improved on all the stations coming off the ESB. Just about everything is in the low to upper 90's for me.


If your FOX reception was very good before it may be it is too strong now for your tuner and you need to attenuate it.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*ION Launches Home Shopping Network feed on New York City market Affiliate*


Effective Tuesday, November 19, 2013, ION Media commenced a fifth subchannel over WPXN-TV New York. Channel 31-6 is now broadcasting a static 480i SD feed of *Home Shopping Network*. The PSIP TVCT name is *HSN*. As with all ION subs, this is a static 480i SD feed, with accurate time and program guide information. The programming matches the feed being broadcast over cable and satellite television.


HSN programming also airs OTA in this market via W41DO-D New York, which broadcasts over Channel 41. Prior to this, it aired over a subchannel of WNYN-LD New York, which broadcasts over Channel 39.


This makes the third shopping channel available via ION's OTA television signals. QVC was recently added in August 2013, and ShopTV/iShop was added prior to that.


It will be interesting to see if HSN is added to any other ION affiliates. With the possibility of channel repacking, channel 41 would likely be surrendered leaving HSN without a broadcast New York market affiliate. This could be posited as a move by the heritage Florida-based shopping network to retain a prominent position on terrestrial broadcast TV. However, if HSN is being added to ION affiliates in other markets, this would be more indicative of a revenue increase strategy by ION.

_Editor's no-holds-barred commentary:_ This add is not exciting, and I doubt many people were clamoring for HSN or any shopping channel to be added to the broadcast dial in this market, especially on a full-power signal. And it further reinforces the bland, homogenized, predictable wasteland that OTA TV in this market has become. The #1 market is essentially a flophouse for network owners to clear programming and diginets. Meanwhile, other station owners park their infomercial channels, shopping channels, and non-compelling religious channels on valuable spectrum that next to no one is watching and is most definitely being wasted with this crap. Yes, broadcast TV is in a better place right now than analog satellite TV, but the B.U.D. medium's sad fate is looking more likely for broadcast TV each and every time another shopping network takes a spot that compelling and useful programming could occupy.


The NAB is either deluding themselves or still believes the world is in the 1960s. Or they have some other agenda. But right now, in this market, there is next to no reason anyone would want to go through the time, trouble, or expense, regardless of how cheap it is, to properly install an Antenna to receive these channels. The "It's FREE!" argument is soundly defeated once you have to concede that the viewer will find tons of infomercial and religious programming, and that most of their beloved play-by-play sports action is relegated to the pay-per-month service that comes cleanly into your home via the RG-6 coax. Broadcast TV must... _MUST_ offer something compelling that is not yet found on cable or satellite. But over the course of the past three years, the licensed broadcasters, for the most part, have abdicated all but their minimal responsibilities to the viewing public.


There are a few notable exceptions such as Fox, Weigel, and Tribune, who have brought great diginets to the viewing public. Their work should be acknowledged and properly commended. It is refreshing to see some licensees viewing their spectrum as more than rundown section 8 housing and themselves as slumlords.


It is truly regrettable that both radio and TV station owners take a dim view of market #1, using it only to clear their brand or sell their own or their clients crap. Loosening of ownership caps has only served to further exacerbate this problem (i.e. CBS purchase of WLNY-TV). Many of these broadcast signals would be better utilized by creating half-hour blocks, turning the cameras and microphones over to everyday people, and letting them do and say whatever they want. Reality TV in its finest and truest sense. At least it would give people a reason to consider buying an antenna. Right now, when most broadcast signals are duplicated on cable and satellite, and that which is exclusive to OTA is religious and infomercials, such an investment is often considered as complicated, unnecessary, and most important of all... boring.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


The business model makes sense as a lot of people shop QVC and HSC and it is coming up to prime gift giving season! A ton of money will be made the rest of the year by QVC and HSC! This is all about making money....free enterprise, capitalism and all that is materialistic.


----------



## Aero 1

the main ION channel already looks horrendous, especially when there is fast action, yet they continue to degrade it with more sub channels. how many splits does this channel have now? 6 TV signals and what, 5 mobile tv signals?


Also, october has been long passed and still not GetTV.


----------



## Trip in VA

1 HD, 5 SD, 3 AirBox (I think), 1 Mobile DTV.


GetTV is delayed and its website now says "Coming Soon." Rumor mill suggests February.


- Trip


----------



## reddice

ION is the only channel I still can't get reliable. Low power stations are stronger.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_23973099
> 
> 
> ION is the only channel I still can't get reliable. Low power stations are stronger.


Try ION on ch.12 -1,2,3......I keep on tuner only 12-1 beacause most of the time it is weak, then I go to 31-

Some time Ch.2 CBS has issues of blank spots to 0 signal level, CBS 2-2 is realy good news,sport,traffic, weather report


----------



## reddice

12 I can't get anything. Forgot to say but my new TV I got in the fall actually can pull in 31 more reliable as my old TV would just pull in a bunch of blocks. Also 31 is the only station Dish Network does not have in HD. Dish even just added 25 in HD.


----------



## AloEuro

Ch. 3 - 1 CNNLatino

3 - 2 BuenaVision Spanish

3 - 3 CornerStone English

3 - 4 now empty are broadcasting on Ch. 51 - 1,2,3,4


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey AloEuro,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_24002519
> 
> 
> Ch. 3 - 1 CNNLatino
> 
> 3 - 2 BuenaVision Spanish
> 
> 3 - 3 CornerStone English
> 
> 3 - 4 now empty are broadcasting on Ch. 51 - 1,2,3,4



Please explain what you mean about Channel 3-4. How do you mean it/they is/are now broadcasting on Channel 51?


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_24005048
> 
> 
> Hey AloEuro,
> 
> Please explain what you mean about Channel 3-4. How do you mean it/they is/are now broadcasting on Channel 51?


Ch.3 originally Buena Vista/ Buena Vision had 4 subs, then 3-1 CNNL, 3-2-BuenaVision, 3-3 CornerStone , 3-4 BuenaVision, now Ch.3 is no more on the tuner between CBS 2-1,2 and NBC 4-1,2Cozy

Ch. 3 is on 51-1CNNL ,51 -2Buena Vision,51 -3Cornerstone TV and 51-4 is dark, empty


----------



## icemannyr

Agree that the PQ on 31.1 is even more awful since the addition of extra SD sub channels.

It's amazing how good a direct feed with no sub channels can be as WLNY-DT has amazing PQ on FiOS.


From NJ about 25mi from the ESB using a powered HDTV indoor antenna I did a rescan of channels.

The TV now regularly finds WABC-DT. I still can't pull in a signal from WPIX-DT or WNET-DT.

I noticed WNJU dropped 47.3 Soi TV.


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icemannyr*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_24017879
> 
> 
> Agree that the PQ on 31.1 is even more awful since the addition of extra SD sub channels.
> 
> It's amazing how good a direct feed with no sub channels can be as WLNY-DT has amazing PQ on FiOS.
> 
> 
> From NJ about 25mi from the ESB using a powered HDTV indoor antenna I did a rescan of channels.
> 
> The TV now regularly finds WABC-DT. I still can't pull in a signal from WPIX-DT or WNET-DT.
> 
> I noticed WNJU dropped 47.3 Soi TV.


Sub channels are a waste of good bandwidth.


----------



## AloEuro

Some of the Spanish ch. are broadcasting their telenovela/ soap opera of 1hr..range in CC3Eng, usually posting the CC3. Ch.47-1, 68-1/41-2, So if you are willing to read the subtitles in english, even if you are not woman, enjoy self.


----------



## LenL

Loving the programming on 66.1! The cop shows are actually quite good and even though they are in a foreign language the English captions are usually easy to follow. For the most part these shows are better than what we find on our American broadcasts!


Give them a try!


----------



## csworldwide1

This is somewhat shocking, because we know that the FCC wants to reclaim spectrum for broadband use.


But based on this application showned tonight, Fox-owned, WWOR wants a digital fill-in translator on Channel 34 from a transmitter just north of Yonkers. So this translator will basically serve the northern viewing area.


----------



## Trip in VA

I have a sneaking suspicion that FOX is attempting to make WPXO-LD (MundoFOX) available to more of the New York area in HD. I won't be shocked if the channel 34 transmitter, if it is even approved, simulcasts WPXO-LD while claiming that it is filling in only WWOR 9-4 or something like that. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen something like that tried.


I have no evidence to support that assertion; just a guess.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

Now that I told you how much I love 66.1 and their International Mystery programming a few posts back I lost the signal about 5 days ago! I have contacted the station and await feedback. Meanwhile can any of you get this station and where are you located? Since I am only about 15 miles west of the broadcast antenna in West Orange it would seem that they must have changed something with their over the air broadcast. Either shut it down, reduced power or direction.


----------



## LenL

I got a response (which is good) from the station. It was to try and do a rescan (Which is not really a solution) and I did with the same results as I expected.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reddice*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_24018479
> 
> 
> Sub channels are a waste of good bandwidth.



I agree!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WNYJ-TV PAYS WEST MILFORD, NJ AND NYC NO MiND*


At approximately the same time one of this forum's frequent contributors noted an absence of the 200 kilowatt flamethrower, known as WNYJ-TV West Milford which broadcasts over Channel 29 from West Orange, NJ., the station was apparently reconfiguring its encoder to eventually accommodate additional content from MHz Worldview. The reconfiguration currently provides for at least two additional AV SD streams, virtual channels 66-2 and 66-3 respectively, while relegating the "religious" Family Radio East Coast Programming aural service to the biblically evil virtual channel numbered 66-6. The move comes with another downgrade in that the video slide describing the programming service as "WFME-FM" has been removed.


Notably missing in the reconfiguration is the Philadelphia-based public broadcasting service known as MiND-TV, which originates from WYBE-TV Philadelphia. The simulcast, a reciprocal arrangement between both television stations in order to expand the availability of each into the other's major media market, had been in effect since late 2010. According to the agreement, the arrangement would have lasted until December 2015. However, an early escape clause permitting cessation was incorporated into the contract, and the permitted time to exercise said escape commenced on December 9, 2013, with the actual date of cessation beginning not less than thirty days from said date.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_24183649
> 
> 
> Now that I told you how much I love 66.1 and their International Mystery programming a few posts back I lost the signal about 5 days ago! I have contacted the station and await feedback. Meanwhile can any of you get this station and where are you located? Since I am only about 15 miles west of the broadcast antenna in West Orange it would seem that they must have changed something with their over the air broadcast. Either shut it down, reduced power or direction.



WNYJ-TV West Milford presently transmits four subchannels, more particularly described as follows:


V.C. # 66-1: PSIP TVCT: *WNYJ*; SD static 4:3 A/R. English. Time is accurate. Program guide information is accurate.


V.C. # 66-2: PSIP TVCT: *WNYJ-2*; SD static 4:3 A/R. English. Time is accurate. Program guide information is non-specific, reflecting a 30 minute program that perpetually loops. The program title is "MHz Worldview" and program description is "MHz Worldview Programming" The content on this station is a duplicate of V.C. 66-1.


V.C. # 66-3: PSIP TVCT: *WNYJ-3*; SD static 4:3 A/R. English. Time is accurate. Program guide information is accurate. The content on this station is a duplicate of V.C. 66-1.


V.C. # 66-6: PSIP TVCT: *WFME-FM*; Audio Only. English. Time is accurate. Program guide information is non-specific, reflecting a 30 minute program that perpetually loops. The program title is "DTV Program" and program description is "DTV Program"


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


Thanks for the update. Are you able to get this station? Still nothing here at my home. I was hoping others on the forum would chime in on whether they can receive 66.1 OK.


I wrote again to the station about the continuing issue and never received a reply.


They can reconfigure all they want but if hardly anyone can receive their signal it is a waste of time and money.


----------



## Trip in VA

I won't be surprised if something like RT appears there, like how France24 recently appeared on KCSM in San Francisco. I'd say to just look at the programming found on WNVC and WNVT in the DC area.


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len L. and Trip!


Len L.: You're welcome! The reception of WNYJ-TV at my location remains unchanged. May I suggest manually entering in RF channel 29? I have found that sometimes when a signal becomes poor for whatever reason, the tuner no longer recognizes the allocation. For example, in your case, the tuner may be trying to tune in RF channel 66 and, accordingly, would find no compatible signal. This frequently happens to me with respect to WKOB-LD. The tuner attempts to tune RF 42 to no avail. I then have to direct it to RF 2, and providing a usable signal exists, it receives the station and adjusts the PSIP accordingly. If I did not know a stations' real RF assignment, I, as a viewer, would be deprived. This is the main reason I feel virtual channels aren't reliable in terrestrial broadcast television, but that is probably a debate for another place and time.


Trip in VA.: RT would certainly be welcomed by this viewer. I suspect that unless (more likely "until") a sale of the station is completed, viewers will see no bitrate improvements on WNYJ-TV. The streams are being transmitted in the same manner as they were when the station was WFME-TV. Fortunately the MHz Worldview production quality is much better than the Family Stations in-house produced stuff. Do you think the station will be looking to WNVC and WNVT for inspiration or for playbook guidance?


----------



## Kascnef82

Watching the nfl game on fox hd and noticing a white line near the very left corner of the screen. Is this bad reception?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_24196437
> 
> 
> Watching the nfl game on fox hd and noticing a white line near the very left corner of the screen. Is this bad reception?



Are watching on fios? If you still think this thread still applies to fios, it doesn't. Ask in the fios thread.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16900_100#post_24195851
> 
> 
> Trip in VA.: RT would certainly be welcomed by this viewer. I suspect that unless (more likely "until") a sale of the station is completed, viewers will see no bitrate improvements on WNYJ-TV. The streams are being transmitted in the same manner as they were when the station was WFME-TV. Fortunately the MHz Worldview production quality is much better than the Family Stations in-house produced stuff. Do you think the station will be looking to WNVC and WNVT for inspiration or for playbook guidance?



Hey:


I suspect that the spectrum speculators that are funding KCSM and WNYJ are trying to make as much money on them in the interim, and to do this on a non-commercial station, are contracting with MHz Networks, which holds WNVT and WNVC. I don't know for sure, but I expect that RT, France24, and the others pay to be carried over the air in the US, and since those networks are non-commercial, they can be carried on non-commercial stations, as they are on WNVC and WNVT, respectively. KCSM is already carrying France24 under an agreement with MHz. http://www.mhznetworks.org/about/press/france-24-launches-kcsm-san-francisco-mhz-networks-deal 


In the DC area, WNVT and WNVC carry this lineup:


WNVC:

30-1 MHz 1 (it's similar, but not identical to, the MHz Worldview national schedule)

30-2 NHK World

30-3 CCTV News

30-4 RT

30-5 Blue Ocean Network

30-6 CCTV Documentary


WNVT:

30-7 France24

30-8 RT en Español

30-9 Arirang

30-10 Ethiopian

30-11 VTV4

30-12 TRT Turk / ARISE (share time)


Some of those channels are already on stations in the New York area (NHK World, France24, and Arirang are already on WRNN, CCTV News is already on WXNY-LD). Those networks may look to upgrade, or some of the ones not represented already may look for a local home.


- Trip


----------



## Kascnef82

I heard Ernie Anastos was fired by Fox 5 not too long ago...i used to like him a lot on Channel 2 with the Shame on You segment, then he got into trouble for cursing and stuff when he joined Fox 5.


----------



## SnellKrell

Not Ernie Anastos, you've confused him with Arnold Diaz!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24198435
> 
> 
> Some of those channels are already on stations in the New York area (NHK World, France24, and Arirang are already on WRNN, CCTV News is already on WXNY-LD). Those networks may look to upgrade, or some of the ones not represented already may look for a local home.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thank you, as always, for the detailed information







With respect to WRNN-TV Kingston, however, I think a correction may be necessary. Apparently, France24 was in talks with the station to lease a subchannel, but the deal fell through around November 2013. The last time I observed the station about three weeks ago, I'm fairly certain that GCN was still operating on Channel 48-4.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_24195851
> 
> 
> Hey Len L. and Trip!
> 
> 
> Len L.: You're welcome! The reception of WNYJ-TV at my location remains unchanged. May I suggest manually entering in RF channel 29? I have found that sometimes when a signal becomes poor for whatever reason, the tuner no longer recognizes the allocation. For example, in your case, the tuner may be trying to tune in RF channel 66 and, accordingly, would find no compatible signal. This frequently happens to me with respect to WKOB-LD. The tuner attempts to tune RF 42 to no avail. I then have to direct it to RF 2, and providing a usable signal exists, it receives the station and adjusts the PSIP accordingly. If I did not know a stations' real RF assignment, I, as a viewer, would be deprived. This is the main reason I feel virtual channels aren't reliable in terrestrial broadcast television, but that is probably a debate for another place and time.
> 
> 
> Trip in VA.: RT would certainly be welcomed by this viewer. I suspect that unless (more likely "until") a sale of the station is completed, viewers will see no bitrate improvements on WNYJ-TV. The streams are being transmitted in the same manner as they were when the station was WFME-TV. Fortunately the MHz Worldview production quality is much better than the Family Stations in-house produced stuff. Do you think the station will be looking to WNVC and WNVT for inspiration or for playbook guidance?



Giacomo,


Thanks again for the tips. I did rescan when the station contact suggested it and nothing happened. However I have WNYJ back now so something must have been done at their end or perhaps as I kept rescanning I finally got it?


Anyway it appears to be a marginal signal as it was before I lost it. So perhaps it did not take much for me to lose it.


Question for you or TRIP. WNYJ seems to be very low power? Is this because of NY proximity and FCC issues or by choice? I was wondering if they are limited in how strong a signal they can have. If not they sure should add some more juice to it.


----------



## Trip in VA

WNYJ is at 200 kW ERP, but is very directional away from Philadelphia, where WTXF analog was on 29 before the transition and where WUVP digital is now. On the nulled (south-southwest) side, the ERP is only 2 kW.


Antenna pattern: http://www.rabbitears.info/pattern.php?request=ant_pat&ant_id=33869&rotation=0&erp=200 


Coverage map: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1000865&map=Y 


It looks like Randolph gets only a bit more power than the 2 kW value--maybe 10 kW or so.


- Trip


----------



## csworldwide1

Now WNYW wants a digital fill in on Channel 32, in Newburgh, NY.


----------



## AvidHiker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24199338
> 
> 
> I heard Ernie Anastos was fired by Fox 5 not too long ago...i used to like him a lot on Channel 2 with the Shame on You segment, then he got into trouble for cursing and stuff when he joined Fox 5.



Wrong, as was already pointed out.








How many times do we need to explain the purpose of this thread to you? You do not have an antenna, thus, you are not receiving an OTA signal.


----------



## LenL

I did get my reception back with WNYJ 66.1 and sent them a note confirming that and also asking if they could improve their EPG from 12 hours to 3 days or more. Low and behold (unlike the major networks) I got an almost immediate response that they expanded their EPG to a full 7 days as a result of my request.


If only the major networks cared about their OTA customers!


----------



## Trip in VA

Wow. That's impressive!


- Trip


----------



## LenL

Yes....and every major network I wrote to sent my email to the black hole of death. Never heard back.


Big is not always better. Sometimes small is better...much better. Better at responding to customers and valuing their real customers more. CBS, NBC etc. could give a crap about a request from me.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_24183649
> 
> 
> Now that I told you how much I love 66.1 and their International Mystery programming a few posts back I lost the signal about 5 days ago! I have contacted the station and await feedback. Meanwhile can any of you get this station and where are you located? Since I am only about 15 miles west of the broadcast antenna in West Orange it would seem that they must have changed something with their over the air broadcast. Either shut it down, reduced power or direction.


Because of your recommendation, I tried 66-1 and nothing, then I did FullScan on converter box and no ch.66 in Brooklyn, less than 4miles. from ESB, fortunately I get solid reception on ch. 63 all7plus 2 streams from Newton,NJ


----------



## LenL

AloEuro,


66.1 does not broadcast from the ESB in NY. It's broadcast tower is in West Orange NJ so you might have to redirect your antenna where you are at to get the station. That is unfortunate as 66.1 has a lot of European detective mysteries (from a number of countries) that are quite good in many different languages with English subtitles and I might add commercial free.


----------



## LenL

Now that I got such a quick and great response from WNYJ about 7 days of EPG, I contacted all the major stations in NY from CBS to WNET today and requested they expand their EPG.


I got my first response from CBS which was that I can get their guide with more info from the internet. Duh!


I can't wait to see what the others come back with!


----------



## nyctveng

I don't know if it has been mentioned already but WPXN is now carrying HSN on 31.6. The primary HD channel looks way overcompressed.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey nyctveng!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24226790
> 
> 
> I don't know if it has been mentioned already but WPXN is now carrying HSN on 31.6. The primary HD channel looks way overcompressed.


I believe someone on here brought that up a while ago...









http://www.avsforum.com/t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16950#post_23972211 


Completely agree about the over-compression. Not only does the main look horrible, most of the subs are practically unwatchable, particularly *ION Life* on 31-3. And forget about watching this broadcast station on a non-CRT flat screen. In fact, the broadcast signal is now so poor, I do not think the ION feed distributed by Cablevision is taken OTA anymore. It is either via Fiber Optic, or the east coast national feed. The quality is considerably better than what is broadcasting over 31-1, and the TOH ID break-ins do not display the local call-signs. To verify, I will have to view the station over Cablevision during an airing of their 6AM "E/I" program: the 60 minute "ION Life" program _Living Well New York_ (whose opening is plastered with the WPXN-TV call-sign, but whose content has nothing specifically whatsoever to do with the New York City regional area







)


----------



## n2ubp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *csworldwide1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24213170
> 
> 
> Now WNYW wants a digital fill in on Channel 32, in Newburgh, NY.



It would be very helpful up here. The only way I can see them in Middletown, NY is via 5-3 in SD. 5-1 used to be strong after the digital transition but over time they have gone downhill. Wonder where they would put it in Newburgh? Mt Beacon across the Hudson is the place to be if you can find tower space.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16920#post_23898591
> 
> *MHz WorldView*, Welcome to New Jersey and New York!
> 
> 
> As 12 Midnight, MHz WorldView is now being programmed to the New York City metro area over Channel 29, still officially WFME-TV West Milford.
> 
> 
> Throughout October 31, 2013, the station's last day of being programmed by Family Radio as "Family Educational Television, WFME-TV 66", programming was normal with no special references to the impending changeover except for a horizontal scroll that was occasionally rolled just after the start of some programs. The scroll's typeface looked exactly like the scroll used over WFME-TV's Analog Channel 66 in the days prior to the February 2009 shut-down of that signal.
> 
> 
> Sometime during the morning or afternoon of this last day, Family Radio dropped two of its remaining audio subchannels: The Family Radio West Coast Feed on channel 66-3 and the Family Radio Foreign Language Feed on channel 66-5. They also changed the PSIP on channel 66-1 from "WFME-TV" to "WNYJ".
> 
> 
> The final show to air was "Hymn Sing" hosted by Gary Burgett. Following the conclusion of that half-hour show, there were two PSAs and one final "Family Educational Television, WFME-TV 66" Station ID. Following a normal fade-to-black, there was a video glitch indicating a switch was executed at exactly 12 Midnight. Then MHz WorldView programming immediately began. The first show to air was _*Braquo*: Running After the Night_ (S01, E05/First Aired: Nov. 27, 2011). The episode summary is: Eddy works to release Walter; Roxane makes a tough decision. This series has English subtitles. During this episode, there was a brief on-air ID bug at lower-right which read "WNYJ West Milford". This only appeared once, and has not appeared again during the time I have watched the station. Another episode of _*Braquo*_ followed at 1AM. Then at 2AM and beyond, various Asian newscasts and documentaries from NHK and CCTV.
> 
> _Editor's Opinion_: Tonight's launch, while not flashy or obvious, satisfied to establish a definite contrast between the past and future programming on this channel. Within the first half-hour, there was intrigue, suspense, mild violence, mystery, and if all that didn't convince viewers that a new chapter began for channel 29 from West Milford, transmitting out of West Orange, NJ., the very first show included a female nurse happily providing a urine sample for one of the characters, Theo, in front of him... and everyone else watching this episode. When he suggests a little horizontal payback for her generosity, she obliges him right away. Of course there was no nudity, but the acting and camera angles helped convey the sense of realism of this scene.
> 
> 
> Following this show, the plethora of international newscasts was a refreshing contrast to the typical newscasts produced here in the U.S. These international reports on real issues contain substance without the agenda pushing and dumbed-down delivery with mindless anchor banter that has become a staple of U.S. cable and even broadcast news during the past 15+ years.
> 
> 
> I am very impressed with MHz WorldView. The fact that the New York metropolitan area has gone so long without this network is further evidence of how stuck in second gear the TV and radio broadcast situation is here in this market. Independent ownership of broadcast licenses is why markets like Los Angeles and Chicago have such a diverse selection of domestic and international programming, and the New York market hardly ever changes.
> 
> 
> It is also further proof of the need to encourage independent ownership of broadcast licenses, and not allow big corporations to monopolize the public spectrum through expansion of the ownership rules.



Hmmmm I have been waiting for Mhz to start airing in NYC since OTA TV became mandatory!The reason for this is because I loove Asian programing . Unfortunately I don't see MHZ in any channel, I live in bronx????


----------



## LenL

As I mentioned to a previous poster. The transmission is NOT from the Empire State Building. They broadcast from West Orange NJ. So you would have to re-aim your antenna away from the ESB in order to pick up the signal or have a second antenna.


As I mentioned I love the commercial free programming. However it is not in HD.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24238264
> 
> 
> As I mentioned to a previous poster. The transmission is NOT from the Empire State Building. They broadcast from West Orange NJ. So you would have to re-aim your antenna away from the ESB in order to pick up the signal or have a second antenna.
> 
> 
> As I mentioned I love the commercial free programming. However it is not in HD.



Guess I have to wait another few years before watching this programing.







wished they would get get their signal working. Thanks for the fast reply


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24238309
> 
> 
> Guess I have to wait another few years before watching this programing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wished they would get get their signal working. Thanks for the fast reply



live feed via Roku: https://www.roku.com/channels/#!details/1142/mhz-networks


----------



## LenL

AERO-1,


Can it be recorded from ROKU? If so how?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24238309
> 
> 
> Guess I have to wait another few years before watching this programing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wished they would get get their signal working. Thanks for the fast reply



Not sure what you mean by "get their signal working". It is working. You have to aim your antenna correctly to get it. The problem is YOUR antenna and NOT their signal!


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24238538
> 
> 
> live feed via Roku: https://www.roku.com/channels/#!details/1142/mhz-networks



Also if he has a computer you can watch MHZ Network programming on your PC.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24239917
> 
> 
> AERO-1,
> 
> 
> Can it be recorded from ROKU? If so how?



Not easily or efficiently.


----------



## yobiworld




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24239924
> 
> 
> Not sure what you mean by "get their signal working". It is working. You have to aim your antenna correctly to get it. The problem is YOUR antenna and NOT their signal!


I have 63 channel and sub subchannels. I also live on the very last floor of my building. If that alone can't get me a good signal than yes it's them not me.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24240922
> 
> 
> I have 63 channel and sub subchannels. I also live on the very last floor of my building. If that alone can't get me a good signal than yes it's them not me.



is your antenna pointed directly at West Orange Nj and have sufficient antenna and possibly an amp in order to get that station reliably? no, you dont? then yes, its your problem. Brush up on broadcasting physics before you put blame on athe station. your 63 stations dont magically appear out of nowhere from every location and it doesnt mean that every station in the area should be received by your antenna. especially if its not aimed correctly.


Hell, i live 8 miles from west orange and its transmitters and i cant receive it because my antenna is aimed 60 degrees the other way pointing at the empire state building 17 miles away.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24238208
> 
> 
> Hmmmm I have been waiting for Mhz to start airing in NYC since OTA TV became mandatory!The reason for this is because I loove Asian programing . Unfortunately I don't see MHZ in any channel, I live in bronx????





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24238264
> 
> 
> As I mentioned to a previous poster. The transmission is NOT from the Empire State Building. They broadcast from West Orange NJ. So you would have to re-aim your antenna away from the ESB in order to pick up the signal or have a second antenna.
> 
> 
> As I mentioned I love the commercial free programming. However it is not in HD.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24239924
> 
> 
> Not sure what you mean by "get their signal working". It is working. You have to aim your antenna correctly to get it. The problem is YOUR antenna and NOT their signal!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24240922
> 
> 
> I have 63 channel and sub subchannels. I also live on the very last floor of my building. If that alone can't get me a good signal than yes it's them not me.



Well, if you are in the Bronx, and your antenna is facing ESB, then the transmitter for WNYJ is probably at least an eighth of a turn away. Not to mention that WNYJ on RF29 and WNBC on RF28 isn't helping matters -- adjacent channel interference. The channel 4 signal could simply be trumping anything of Channel 66 you might be getting.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## yobiworld

They need a stronger signal. I will wait waot until that happens til then my laptop is good enough


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24240995
> 
> 
> is your antenna pointed directly at West Orange Nj and have sufficient antenna and possibly an amp in order to get that station reliably? no, you dont? then yes, its your problem. Brush up on broadcasting physics before you put blame on athe station. your 63 stations dont magically appear out of nowhere from every location and it doesnt mean that every station in the area should be received by your antenna. especially if its not aimed correctly.
> 
> 
> Hell, i live 8 miles from west orange and its transmitters and i cant receive it because my antenna is aimed 60 degrees the other way pointing at the empire state building 17 miles away.



I can receive it only because it is almost in line with the ESB from my house. It is a low power braodcast.


That being said YOBI world might be able to get it with a second antenna pointed to West Orange and a splitter/combiner bringing in the feeds from both antennas. First I would try to see if aiming the antenna to West Orange pulls in a signal. We need to know what kind of antenna Yobi is using and where it is located.


----------



## Trip in VA

WFME, at 200 kW, is the same amount of power as WNBC, WFUT, and WNJN and more than WNYE, WPXN, and WWOR. It is not low-power.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

Tripp,


I guess it is only low power for me because of the directional broadcast? Effective ERP is only 14.363 while for NBC it is 200.


If that is the case then people in NY should have a much easier time than me getting it? Would people in NY be an effective ERP of 200?


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24243357
> 
> 
> They need a stronger signal. I will wait waot until that happens til then my laptop is good enough



the art of physics escapes you and you will be waiting for a long time.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17000_100#post_24243784
> 
> 
> Tripp,
> 
> 
> I guess it is only low power for me because of the directional broadcast? Effective ERP is only 14.363 while for NBC it is 200.
> 
> 
> If that is the case then people in NY should have a much easier time than me getting it? Would people in NY be an effective ERP of 200?



Yes, that's correct, on all counts. New York doesn't get the full 200 kW but something like 150 kW, which is something like a 1 dB difference.


- Trip


----------



## JingoFresh


I bought a $15 RCA antenna which mostly works pretty fine in Williamsburg. CBS gets some slight artifacts sometimes, just enough to be slightly annoying. I don't get ABC or PBS clearly...FOX is perfect and NBC is mostly fine too.

 

My question is if I bought a more expensive antenna, like a $40 one, would that make a major difference? Clear signal and more channels all the time?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JingoFresh*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24249396
> 
> 
> I bought a $15 RCA antenna which mostly works pretty fine in Williamsburg. CBS gets some slight artifacts sometimes, just enough to be slightly annoying. I don't get ABC or PBS clearly...FOX is perfect and NBC is mostly fine too.
> 
> 
> My question is if I bought a more expensive antenna, like a $40 one, would that make a major difference? Clear signal and more channels all the time?



None of us can really answer that question because there are so many factors that influence reception at a particular location. Sometimes more expensive does not equate with better reception.


Your best bet is to buy/try it only if you can do an easy return if it does not do a better job.


The obvious answer is outdoor antennas are ALWAYS better than indoor antennas. However we understand there are situations where people just can't place an antenna outdoors. In that case you just have to use trial and error to find the best indoor antenna that will work for you and your specific location etc.


----------



## JingoFresh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24249672
> 
> 
> 
> None of us can really answer that question because there are so many factors that influence reception at a particular location. Sometimes more expensive does not equate with better reception.
> 
> 
> Your best bet is to buy/try it only if you can do an easy return if it does not do a better job.
> 
> 
> The obvious answer is outdoor antennas are ALWAYS better than indoor antennas. However we understand there are situations where people just can't place an antenna outdoors. In that case you just have to use trial and error to find the best indoor antenna that will work for you and your specific location etc.


Hmm OK thanks.

 

I thought a more expensive one might have much better receiving ability or something...I don't know much about how they work.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JingoFresh*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24249683
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm OK thanks.
> 
> 
> I thought a more expensive one might have much better receiving ability or something...I don't know much about how they work.



As written above, more expensive does not equate to being better. It's all about location location location and in the case of indoor antennas, location and building materials. The less building material between your antenna and the transmitter, the better. If your house has aluminum siding, you want to put your antenna in a window.


From your description, it seems you are not getting the VHF Stations (ABC, PBS -- you don't mention PIX11), but you are getting the UHF Stations (CBS, NBC, Fox, My9, ionTV, and anything else. I had difficulty with the VHF until I went with an outdoor antenna. Siding was the culprit, even in a window.


Move the antenna around and see that works best. The rabbit ear portions of your antenna receive VHF. They shouldn't be extended more than 18 inches each. If you don't have rabbit ears, that may explain why you can't achieve good reception on 7,11, and 13.



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## JingoFresh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24250048
> 
> 
> 
> As written above, more expensive does not equate to being better. It's all about location location location and in the case of indoor antennas, location and building materials. The less building material between your antenna and the transmitter, the better. If your house has aluminum siding, you want to put your antenna in a window.
> 
> 
> From your description, it seems you are not getting the VHF Stations (ABC, PBS -- you don't mention PIX11), but you are getting the UHF Stations (CBS, NBC, Fox, My9, ionTV, and anything else. I had difficulty with the VHF until I went with an outdoor antenna. Siding was the culprit, even in a window.
> 
> 
> Move the antenna around and see that works best. The rabbit ear portions of your antenna receive VHF. They shouldn't be extended more than 18 inches each. If you don't have rabbit ears, that may explain why you can't achieve good reception on 7,11, and 13.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug


I know more expensive does not always mean better, but quality still correlates with cost to a point.

 

I bought an antenna that can pickup VHF, I just don't get it reliably. Antennaweb says I should get everything, but I don't know if buying a better antenna would make a difference if this one is meant to receive VHF. It doesn't have rabbit ears though..it's kind of just a flat square. Time to get one with rabbit ears it sounds like, thanks.


----------



## LenL

JingFresh,


Can you tell us exactly what antenna you are using? Also where it is located and any other equipment you are using?


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yobiworld*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16980#post_24240922
> 
> 
> I have 63 channel and sub subchannels. I also live on the very last floor of my building. If that alone can't get me a good signal than yes it's them not me.


Ch.63 comes from Newton,N.J. and Smithtown,N.Y, most likely you get signal from N.Y and not from N.J, the same may go for me while I have assumed it was coming from N.J, that is why I can not get ch.66. I like ch. 63-5 NTDTV (New Tang Dynasty TV), they usually have 2 or 3 serials a day shown 3x a day, 2episodes same time 1hr and half, all have English subtitles,the serials from Korea and Quing Dynasty, learn about herbal anesthetics, medicine, kategories of accupuncture, surgeries, romance and suspension etc.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24259089
> 
> 
> Ch.63 comes from Newton,N.J. and Smithtown,N.Y, most likely you get signal from N.Y and not from N.J, the same may go for me while I have assumed it was coming from N.J, that is why I can not get ch.66. I like ch. 63-5 NTDTV (New Tang Dynasty TV), they usually have 2 or 3 serials a day shown 3x a day, 2episodes same time 1hr and half, all have English subtitles,the serials from Korea and Quing Dynasty, learn about herbal anesthetics, medicine, kategories of accupuncture, surgeries, romance and suspension etc.



City of License for WMBC is Newton but transmitter is neither in Newton nor Smithtown. Perhaps you're thinking about WFTY in Smithtown. WMBC 63 is on RF 18 should have absolutely no affect on WNYJ 66 which is on RF 29.


----------



## KEVINL71

WFTY-TV uses channel 23 for their digital. I get a decent signal of them here in New Britain, CT (southern Hartford County). 67-1 is UniMas and 67-2 relays WXTV-TV (UNI) channel 41 from Paterson, NJ in 4:3 SD.


----------



## Kascnef82

This coming April will mark 5 years since WABC split its signal in half to make room for LiveWell HD. What a shame.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kascnef82*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24269576
> 
> 
> This coming April will mark 5 years since WABC split its signal in half to make room for LiveWell HD. What a shame.



You are on FIOS. What do you care?


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24261296
> 
> 
> City of License for WMBC is Newton but transmitter is neither in Newton nor Smithtown. Perhaps you're thinking about WFTY in Smithtown. WMBC 63 is on RF 18 should have absolutely no affect on WNYJ 66 which is on RF 29.


Somehow I've got confused, thank you for correcting me


----------



## JingoFresh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24258519
> 
> 
> JingFresh,
> 
> 
> Can you tell us exactly what antenna you are using? Also where it is located and any other equipment you are using?


Hi,

 

This is the one I am using http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Digital-Flat-Passive-Antenna/10983716

 

I do get Pix11 and I get ABC but it has a lot of breaks in the signal. I don't get PBS what so ever.

 

It is situated inside at a window.

 

No other equipment, no cable or anything.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JingoFresh*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24272664
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> This is the one I am using http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Digital-Flat-Passive-Antenna/10983716
> 
> 
> I do get Pix11 and I get ABC but it has a lot of breaks in the signal. I don't get PBS what so ever.
> 
> 
> It is situated inside at a window.
> 
> 
> No other equipment, no cable or anything.



yea, that thing sucks. spend money and get something better. read this: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-indoor-hdtv-antenna/


----------



## JingoFresh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24272678
> 
> 
> 
> yea, that thing sucks. spend money and get something better. read this: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-indoor-hdtv-antenna/


Hmmm OK. I mean I thought it was pretty decent except for about 2 channels and not getting PBS.

 

Thing is, I don't really want to put down $100 for an antenna. Just looking for something between what you suggested and what I have.

 

I'm OK with it being worse due to weather or whatever, but I'd like artifcats or cracky reception to be an exception.


----------



## Trip in VA

I've never even heard of the antenna in that article. Looks to be very overpriced, even if it did perform the best in that test.


As always, I continue to recommend the Terk HDTVi (NOT the HDTVa). It has the rabbit ear VHF elements needed to receive 7/11/13, along with a good UHF section for everything else.


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24272779
> 
> 
> I've never even heard of the antenna in that article. Looks to be very overpriced, even if it did perform the best in that test.
> 
> 
> As always, I continue to recommend the Terk HDTVi (NOT the HDTVa). It has the rabbit ear VHF elements needed to receive 7/11/13, along with a good UHF section for everything else.
> 
> 
> - Trip



yep, lots of these little gimmicky companies are popping up all over the place with weird designs and a surcharge. most people near ESB can get away with one of these, simple rabbit ears with a loop. My sister in law 10 miles out in NJ gets perfect reception with one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT111-Basic-Indoor-Antenna/dp/B000HKGK8Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390847931&sr=8-1&keywords=rabbit+ears 


many test show that these flatwave antennas perform poorly compared to simple bowties

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/?p=2279


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24272806
> 
> 
> yep, lots of these little gimmicky companies are popping up all over the place with weird designs and a surcharge. most people near ESB can get away with one of these, simple rabbit ears with a loop. My sister in law 10 miles out in NJ gets perfect reception with one of these.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/RCA-ANT111-Basic-Indoor-Antenna/dp/B000HKGK8Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390847931&sr=8-1&keywords=rabbit+ears



I got flawless reception with this one:
http://www.amazon.com/GE-24734-Millennium-Antenna-Passive/dp/B000FCNBGS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1390848682&sr=8-5&keywords=GE+antenna 


until some siding got in the way. This antenna is part of my tailagting apparatus now, and I get supurb reception when I use it.


No matter what the vendors write, good VHF reception requires longer elements than UHF, hence the need for the ears... If you don't see long(er) elements, the antenna is worthless for VHF.



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## JingoFresh


That is annoying...I was hoping to avoid ears just for aesthetic reasons.

 

This one looks good though and I might be able to hide it behind the TV

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005E2YFDM?tag=thewire06-20


----------



## DVW

Anybody know if the new Freedom Tower will be broadcasting all the NY stations? If so when?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JingoFresh*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24273093
> 
> 
> That is annoying...I was hoping to avoid ears just for aesthetic reasons.
> 
> 
> This one looks good though and I might be able to hide it behind the TV
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005E2YFDM?tag=thewire06-20



The antenna you quote is an amplified UHF bowtie, and is not designed to receive VHF. Adequate VHF reception requires longer elements. Since 7, 11, and 13 are in the high-VHF band though, the rabbit ears only need to be extended 18 inches each. (If you were trying to receive Channel 2 (54 MHz) back in the day, you'd need to extend the ears to their greatest length.) So such an antenna may be camouflaged or hidden behind something.


I would not purchase this antenna and hope to receive VHF stations. It is my opinion you are wasting your money with a purchase.


Does your building have a master antenna?


----------



## JingoFresh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24273201
> 
> 
> 
> The antenna you quote is an amplified UHF bowtie, and is not designed to receive VHF. Adequate VHF reception requires longer elements. Since 7, 11, and 13 are in the high-VHF band though, the rabbit ears only need to be extended 18 inches each. (If you were trying to receive Channel 2 (54 MHz) back in the day, you'd need to extend the ears to their greatest length.) So such an antenna may be camouflaged or hidden behind something.
> 
> 
> I would not purchase this antenna and hope to receive VHF stations. It is my opinion you are wasting your money with a purchase.
> 
> 
> Does your building have a master antenna?


Why are you certain VHF needs rabbit ears?

 

With the antenna I have now, I get PIX11 flawlessly and ABC is mostly fine, but just enough less than fine to be annoying.

 

My building does not have a master antenna. I will look for a better option, that one was just mentioned in the article Aero posted.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JingoFresh*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24273216
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you certain VHF needs rabbit ears?



Adequate reception of radio signals (and TV is a radio signal) is most efficiently achieved when the antenna is tuned to the signal it is receiving. You want your antenna to resonate with the transmitted signal. The higher the frequency, the shorter the antenna.


Channels 2 through 6 (54 MHz through 88 MHz) ideal elements range from 50" (for Ch 2) down to 33" for Channel 6. (Almost no stations make use of these frequencies any more)

Channels 7 through 13 (175 MHz through 216 MHz) ideal elements range from 16" (Channel 7) down to 13" for Channel 13.


For the UHF Channels 14 through 51 (470 MHz through 698 MHz) ideal elements are even shorter, being from 6" down to 4".


There are two elements, and the overall length is really doubled. So, your UHF antennas will be no more than a foot wide at best, maybe a little more. Your VHF antennas will be longer. Ears are the most efficient (in terms of cost -- you wouldn't want a 3 foot box like antenna on your wall, would you?)


There is a reason why the majority of car antennas are ~28" tall... They are matched to receive FM radio most efficiently.


There are of course, exceptions. The closer you are to the transmitter, the more forgiving your antenna will be. The more powerful the transmitter, the better the signal will be. Surroundings also have an important play.


> Quote:
> With the antenna I have now, I get PIX11 flawlessly and ABC is mostly fine, but just enough less than fine to be annoying.



Reflections and harmonics may be explaining why you can receive 11 no problem and 7 with some breakup, but I find it puzzling you cannot receive 13 at all.


Flaw-free reception is best achieved with an antenna designed to resonate with the transmitted signal.


> Quote:
> My building does not have a master antenna. I will look for a better option, that one was just mentioned in the article Aero posted.



I'd still borrow a pair of old rabbit ears from someone to verify that it IS the antenna and VHF and not something else beyond your control (siding, trees, tall building in the way, etc.)


Half of the antennas tested in that article could not pull in VHF Ch 7 nor VHF Ch 8.... and even the author did nor expect them to, as their elements are too short for good RF gain on VHF...



I always try to use the right tool for the right job...



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## LenL

DSTOFFA,


Very well done explanation! Thank you for taking the time to do it for JingoFresh!


----------



## LenL

We have a new channel about to begin on our NY broadcast area. If you tune to 68.3 sub channel you will see promo for GET TV coming February 2014.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17010#post_24276479
> 
> 
> We have a new channel about to begin on our NY broadcast area. If you tune to 68.3 sub channel you will see promo for GET TV coming February 2014.



From October this year now pushed to February 3rd. their site has been updated with more info http://get.tv/


----------



## dvdchance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24277202
> 
> 
> From October this year now pushed to February 3rd. their site has been updated with more info http://get.tv/



I just tuned in now and they are already playing a movie.


----------



## ejb1980

GetTV has been on the air for a long time (perhaps a year) here in NC. It has been playing the same loop of a few old movies the entire time. They keep advancing the date, as noted above.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ejb1980*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24277351
> 
> 
> GetTV has been on the air for a long time (perhaps a year) here in NC. It has been playing the same loop of a few old movies the entire time. They keep advancing the date, as noted above.



Just curious...why are you monitoring the NY AREA OTA Forum?


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdchance*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24277318
> 
> 
> I just tuned in now and they are already playing a movie.



Yes I should have mentioned that while they say February 2014 they seem to be showing old movies. However I'm not going to bet that they are up and running 100% just yet. They may still be testing out their broadcast etc.


----------



## NYC10033

Hi,


I'm in northern Manhattan, near the George Washington Bridge.


I use an indoor antenna, which worked pretty well up until 2 months ago. Now I no longer receive 7, 11 or 13. The signal strength is way down..

I do not have a good view of lower Manhattan, but wasn't a problem 2+ months ago..


2, 4, 5, 9, 25,31, 50 and their subchannels work well.


Anyone else have a similar experience?



Would an indoor antenna with amplifier help???

Anyone care to describe their experiences with an amplified antenna?


Thanks!


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NYC10033*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24278904
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I'm in northern Manhattan, near the George Washington Bridge.
> 
> 
> I use an indoor antenna, which worked pretty well up until 2 months ago. Now I no longer receive 7, 11 or 13. The signal strength is way down..
> 
> I do not have a good view of lower Manhattan, but wasn't a problem 2+ months ago..
> 
> 
> 2, 4, 5, 9, 25,31, 50 and their subchannels work well.
> 
> 
> Anyone else have a similar experience?
> 
> 
> 
> Would an indoor antenna with amplifier help???
> 
> Anyone care to describe their experiences with an amplified antenna?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



More likely a radio frequency noise problem. An amplified antenna will only amplify the noise as well.


Try to find the noise source by walking around with a portable radio tuned to a weak station. Try it on FM. Try it on AM. When you find a noise source, turn it off and see how your reception goes.


Fluorescent and LED lighting seems to be a common problem. Also, consider that the noise source might be one of your neighbors' lights as well.


----------



## AloEuro

Get TV on 68-3 480i 4:3 so far b/w movies you may not see anywhere bacause you might not want to see it at all, but wait and see


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24282113
> 
> 
> Get TV on 68-3 480i 4:3 so far b/w movies you may not see anywhere bacause you might not want to see it at all, but wait and see


You spoiled the surprise of Get TV's slogan










Get TV: "Movies you may not see anywhere because you might not want to see it at all, but wait and see!"


----------



## AntAltMike

I've read elsewhere that Sony is presently supplying some of the programming that is on MeTV, AntennaTV and Movies!, so I suspect that this new channel will offer little that would not otherwise have been shown on those "competing" services.


----------



## Trip in VA

So, apparently Blue Ocean Network has moved from WRNN to WNYJ, replacing much of the MHz Worldview schedule on 66-1. What about the other subchannels? Does one of those keep the MHz Worldview schedule in tact?


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24298376
> 
> 
> So, apparently Blue Ocean Network has moved from WRNN to WNYJ, replacing much of the MHz Worldview schedule on 66-1. What about the other subchannels? Does one of those keep the MHz Worldview schedule in tact?
> 
> 
> - Trip



Huh? Where did you get this from?


----------



## AntAltMike

Blue Ocean Network took the place of Al Jazeera English on the MegaHertz station in my local market, Washington, DC back when Jazeera cut its deal with the cable companies. What a dull, dull channel! I mean, I couldn't make a channel that dull if I tried. They have people mispronouncing words so ridiculously that I think that they don't even speak English but are reading phonetic scripts that lack accent marks, and the wigs and toupees some of their male newscasters wear look like dead animals.


----------



## JayNYC

Hi. Am located in a low rise apartment building in Manhattan on 14th st and Sixth ave.

Using a Tivo Roamio and Clearstream antenna (indoor), I successfully and pretty reliably receive


2-1 CBS

4-1 NBC

7-1 ABC

11-1 WPIX

13-1 WNET


What I need help with is 5-1 WNYW (Fox)

5-1 "comes in" but is very blocky and stuttery.

For example:

4-1 on the Roamio signal level is steady at 72 (peak)

11-1 is steady at 68 (peak=72)

13-1 is steady at 72 (peak=75)

However, 5-1 is steady at 44 (peak=50)


How do I receive 5-1 reliably without losing my other channels?

Yes, I have already tried every conceivable location in my apartment to place the Clearstream antenna and where it currently resides is the "best place" since I get all the other channels except 5-1.



What are strategies for achieving "1 more channel" in an OTA-HD context?



Any guidance greatly appreciated.


thanks


--jay


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17000_100#post_24300186
> 
> 
> Huh? Where did you get this from?



WNYJ's website.


- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24277202
> 
> 
> From October this year now pushed to February 3rd. their site has been updated with more info http://get.tv/



Get TV will officially launch this afternoon at 4PM EDT. with the 1957 movie "Operation Mad Ball". As most of you already know, the station airs in the New York City market over RF channel 30-3/virtual channel 68-3, WFUT-DT3 Newark.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24298376
> 
> 
> So, apparently Blue Ocean Network has moved from WRNN to WNYJ, replacing much of the MHz Worldview schedule on 66-1. What about the other subchannels? Does one of those keep the MHz Worldview schedule in tact?
> 
> 
> - Trip



I have just checked WNYJ-TV West Milford. The channel lineup remains unchanged from my last report here.


----------



## Trip in VA

BON runs 6AM-8PM, according to the WNYJ schedule, so if you checked at 4AM, it would look just like it has.










- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24304005
> 
> 
> BON runs 6AM-8PM, according to the WNYJ schedule, so if you checked at 4AM, it would look just like it has.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yes YOU are correct. Seeing as I just record from 9 PM on I never saw the change. As far as I can tell the sub channels (66.2 and 66.3) have pretty much the same programming. Not sure why they did this. However I would think that will be changing.


----------



## ohio41

Change to BON also applies to Philadelphia relay WYBE 35-66.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24304005
> 
> 
> BON runs 6AM-8PM, according to the WNYJ schedule, so if you checked at 4AM, it would look just like it has.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip


True dat, I stand corrected. I didn't expect a time-share arrangement in this age of multicasting, but apparently that is what they are doing.


The logical reason for why it is being done and why they are using the primary channel is because BON TV is leasing the time, and WNYJ-TV can command a much higher rate on the primary, given it's must-carry status. Still, it rather contradicts what WNYJ-TV indicated they would be doing just before they took over the station.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ohio41*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24304167
> 
> 
> Change to BON also applies to Philadelphia relay WYBE 35-66.


Interesting. I thought the simulcast would have ended







After all, WNYJ-TV no longer carries reciprocal programming from WYBE Philadelphia.


----------



## DistractedJohn

I plan on getting a hdtv within 2 months but will not have cable access so I intend to purchase a HD OTA. I live in the basement so obviously I will need a strong antenae. Any recomondations?...


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hi DistractedJohn,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DistractedJohn*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24311995
> 
> 
> I plan on getting a hdtv within 2 months but will not have cable access so I intend to purchase a HD OTA. I live in the basement so obviously I will need a strong antenae. Any recomondations?...


We will need additional information to help you, such as your approximate geographic location. That being said, my best advice to you at this point is to not use an indoor antenna. At below-grade level, it will likely not be very helpful.


----------



## DistractedJohn

I'm in brooklyn. I think its bushwick area. I'm new here lol. I can't use out door antenae so my outlook is grim I guess lol...


----------



## Aero 1

How about some conversation and speculation in this stagnant thread:


Since I strictly went OTA 3 and a half years ago, we've had a good amount of channels added: CBS+, COZI, Movies!, Bounce, MundoFox, Antenna TV, CUNY, SHOP, QVC, Exitos, Aliento, GetTV and probably others that I cant recall. People in the know, what do you think might be coming next? whats missing that the #1 market doesn't have?


----------



## LenL

Since the start of Digital we have had a lot of programming changes for OTA. Some removal of content, some revised content and lot of new programming. I think it is better today than where we were when we went digital.


CBS 2.2 is an example of a good idea done poorly. 24 hour news weather and sports that should be good to watch for updated info is down right mostly old, stale retread news, outdated weather and poor sport info. You would think that 2.2 could give a nice run down of not just pro sports, but also college and high school in the are with all the time they have. But no. Hardly any sports and often it is yesterdays sport news. I would fire whoever runs this programming and hire some one with a new model of how and what to present to the local viewers. I give 2.2 an F grade.


Fox, WABC, and UPN 9 are still using a sub channel to broadcast SD programming of current HD programming on the main channel. this is STUPID and a waste of bandwidth!


Some of my thoughts FWIW.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24324789
> 
> 
> How about some conversation and speculation in this stagnant thread:
> 
> 
> Since I strictly went OTA 3 and a half years ago, we've had a good amount of channels added: CBS+, COZI, Movies!, Bounce, MundoFox, Antenna TV, CUNY, SHOP, QVC, Exitos, Aliento, GetTV and probably others that I cant recall. People in the know, what do you think might be coming next? whats missing that the #1 market doesn't have?



I wish reruns of some programs that are on network owned cable channels (like USA, etc.) would come to broadcast TV rather than the other way around. I use to like programs like "White Collar", "Royal Pains", "Suits" and stuff like that before we cut the cord. These aren't premium cable channel stuff (such as Game of Thrones or Homeland). Even if they were on a sub-channel I would rather watch them than worthless reality programs that fill the network's broadcast schedules.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24325051
> 
> 
> I wish reruns of some programs that are on network owned cable channels (like USA, etc.) would come to broadcast TV rather than the other way around. I use to like programs like "White Collar", "Royal Pains", "Suits" and stuff like that before we cut the cord. These aren't premium cable channel stuff (such as Game of Thrones or Homeland). Even if they were on a sub-channel I would rather watch them than worthless reality programs that fill the network's broadcast schedules.



White Collar is on CBS on sundays at 2:30 am and sundays on WLNY 55 from 4 - 6 pm.


Although not OTA, a Roku with Amazon and Netflix is a great compliment.


Suits is on Amazon Prime

White Collar is on Netflix, 4 Seasons

Lots of USA shows on Netflix and Amazon.


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24325112
> 
> 
> White Collar is on CBS on sundays at 2:30 am and sundays on WLNY 55 from 4 - 6 pm.
> 
> 
> Although not OTA, a Roku with Amazon and Netflix is a great compliment.
> 
> 
> Suits is on Amazon Prime
> 
> White Collar is on Netflix, 4 Seasons
> 
> Lots of USA shows on Netflix and Amazon.



What is WLNY55? Is it broadcast or cable? If it is broadcast I cannot receive it (I tried). I get all kinds of off beat channels beyond the main six channels (ABC, CBS, NBC. Fox, The CW, PBS(13)), but no 55.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24325615
> 
> 
> What is WLNY55? Is it broadcast or cable? If it is broadcast I cannot receive it (I tried). I get all kinds of off beat channels beyond the main six channels (ABC, CBS, NBC. Fox, The CW, PBS(13)), but no 55.


 http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=print_station&facility_id=73206 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLNY-TV


----------



## ALP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24325636
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=print_station&facility_id=73206
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLNY-TV



Thanks for the input, I now understand why I do not get the station. It's transmitter is on LI and I am about 30 miles due north of NYC. My highly direction antenna is aimed due south straight at the ESB. I get something on 47.1, but it is a Spanish station.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24325636
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=print_station&facility_id=73206
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLNY-TV





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ALP*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17040#post_24325922
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input, I now understand why I do not get the station. It's transmitter is on LI and I am about 30 miles due north of NYC. My highly direction antenna is aimed due south straight at the ESB. I get something on 47.1, but it is a Spanish station.



I am about 5 miles from JFK, and I BARELY get WLNY with the roofie, but the roofie is aimed the other way... so I MIGHT be able to pick it up should I choose to install multiple antennas. I do get WZME from Bridgeport at my location on the South Shore. I enjoy watching Roger Moore pre-bond in "The Saint"....


That being written, there is nothing on WLNY I cannot watch on something else...


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24335025
> 
> 
> 
> I do get WZME from Bridgeport at my location on the South Shore. I enjoy watching Roger Moore pre-bond in "The Saint"....
> 
> 
> That being written, there is nothing on WLNY I cannot watch on something else...
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



I think I'm going to make WZME my spring project and get another antenna and point it towards there 70 miles away and gang it with my current two antennas (UHF and hi VHF). It get an antennas direct db8e and point one side towards ESB and the other towards WZME.


I always wanted to try WLIW for create and world, but I have enough PBS stations.


----------



## StudioTech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24335457
> 
> 
> 
> I always to try WLNY for create and world, but I have enough PBS stations.



You're thinking of WLIW. That's the PBS station. WLNY is the independent station.


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StudioTech*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24336152
> 
> 
> You're thinking of WLIW. That's the PBS station. WLNY is the independent station.



yes, you're right. for some reason, i read WLIW in his post.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24335457
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to make WZME my spring project and get another antenna and point it towards there 70 miles away and gang it with my current two antennas (UHF and hi VHF). It get an antennas direct db8e and point one side towards ESB and the other towards WZME.
> 
> 
> I always wanted to try WLIW for create and world, but I have enough PBS stations.



Good luck. FWIW, my antenna is pointing towards ESB, and not WZME, but I can still pick it up. I assume it's the height helping me out. FWIW again, MeTV is moving to something else soon..



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24341388
> 
> 
> Good luck. FWIW, my antenna is pointing towards ESB, and not WZME, but I can still pick it up. I assume it's the height helping me out. FWIW again, MeTV is moving to something else soon..
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



moving to something else? to another station? what do you mean? if thats the case, then i wont bother.


----------



## Trip in VA

When KVNV signs on from 4 Times Square on channel 3, it will gain the Me-TV affiliation.


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24341761
> 
> 
> When KVNV signs on from 4 Times Square on channel 3, it will gain the Me-TV affiliation.
> 
> 
> - Trip



channel 3? really? ugh. i dont feel like installing a huge lo vhf antenna.


----------



## LenL

Its LOW VHF to boot which is a big issue for me. More on this from the AVS forum

http://www.avsforum.com/t/434937/the-official-low-band-vhf-2-6-reception-thread


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24341761
> 
> 
> When KVNV signs on from 4 Times Square on channel 3, it will gain the Me-TV affiliation.
> 
> 
> - Trip





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24341797
> 
> 
> channel 3? really? ugh. i dont feel like installing a huge lo vhf antenna.



The KVNV Ely (Nevada) and soon to be KVNV Middletown Township (New Jersey) presents many interesting facets of discussion, not the least of which surrounds the legal loophole and proceedings which will allow this small television station to embark on a lengthy 2,400 to 2,500 mile journey eastward. A maneuver that, in my opinion, is sheer genius on the part of the stations' owners, and will finally bring a much needed programming service to the NYC metropolitan area.


One aspect which has not yet been addressed is the interference issue. How might this allocation affect consumer-grade receivers whose output is to RF channel 3 by default? Is this still a relevant issue in an era when most cable/satellite converters, DVDs, VCRs, and game consoles alternately output via Digital and RCA component? How about interference to other VHF-Lo occupants? This already interference-prone VHF-Lo band is suddenly becoming home to more TV stations.


Another issue is the station's must-carry status. The owners of KVNV will likely elect "must-carry" through all area MSTV services. And, just as likely, they will choose channel 3 as their designated channel number. What issues will this raise with the present occupants of channel 3 on these systems? In my opinion, since KVNV will be operating on RF channel 3, they have both a legal and moral right to designate RF and virtual channel 3 as their preferred channel number.


Let the discussion commence...


----------



## veedon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070_10#post_24371707
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24341761
> 
> 
> When KVNV signs on from 4 Times Square on channel 3, it will gain the Me-TV affiliation.
> 
> 
> - Trip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The KVNV Ely (Nevada) and soon to be KVNV Middletown Township (New Jersey) presents many interesting facets of discussion, ...
> 
> 
> Another issue is the station's must-carry status. The owners of KVNV will likely elect "must-carry" through all area MSTV services. And, just as likely, they will choose channel 3 as their designated channel number. What issues will this raise with the present occupants of channel 3 on these systems? In my opinion, since KVNV will be operating on RF channel 3, they have both a legal and moral right to designate RF and virtual channel 3 as their preferred channel number.
> 
> 
> Let the discussion commence...
Click to expand...

 

What are the occupants for the channel 3 slot on the major cable systems in NYC? You mean little ol' Me-TV could bump a station to a different slot?


----------



## LenL

Doesn't mean a thing since I don't have an antenna that can receive LOW VHF.


Plus where are there transmitters?


Plus how much power are they transmitting?


Probably 99.9% of the people OTA will never see this signal.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *veedon*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24372390
> 
> 
> What are the occupants for the channel 3 slot on the major cable systems in NYC? You mean little ol' Me-TV could bump a station to a different slot?



I believe TNT or ionTV...


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24373696
> 
> 
> Doesn't mean a thing since I don't have an antenna that can receive LOW VHF.
> 
> 
> Plus where are there transmitters?
> 
> 
> Plus how much power are they transmitting?
> 
> 
> Probably 99.9% of the people OTA will never see this signal.



doesn't mean a thing to you, as for me, I am not afraid to climb my roof to install a low vhf antenna. this is something i definitely want to get, Now to figure out the best way to go about it, join a third antenna to my existing 1 uhf/1 hi vhf antenna or get something else.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24374377
> 
> 
> I believe TNT or ionTV...



TNT on time warner and ION on RCN & Cablevision. ESPN or QVC on Comcast, nothing on FiOS.


----------



## dstoffa

*WZME 43.2 (Retro-TV) video stutter*


Anyone else notice that RetroTV on WZME 43-2 has a video frame rate of about 2 fps? Sound is fine. MeTV on 43-1 is fine.


I can't imagine it is just me.



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24373696
> 
> 
> Doesn't mean a thing since I don't have an antenna that can receive LOW VHF.
> 
> 
> Plus where are there transmitters?
> 
> 
> Plus how much power are they transmitting?
> 
> 
> Probably 99.9% of the people OTA will never see this signal.



KVNV Middletown Township will transmit over VHF Channel 3 from 4 Times Square, Manhattan, NY. with an effective radiated power (ERP) of 7.09 kilowatts.


The station's contour is predicted to serve 21,378,522 persons. It will completely encompass and provide direct line-of-sight service to its city of license Middletown Township, New Jersey.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *veedon*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24372390
> 
> 
> What are the occupants for the channel 3 slot on the major cable systems in NYC? You mean little ol' Me-TV could bump a station to a different slot?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24376057
> 
> 
> TNT on time warner and ION on RCN & Cablevision. ESPN on Comcast, nothing on FiOS.



Those networks will likely be on the wrong end of an eviction notice from their channel 3 allocations shortly after PMCM TV, LLC. signs-on in Manhattan. Accordingly, they will be displaced to another channel allocation. For anyone who doubts this, you need only look at what happened when the same owners signed-on in the Philadelphia, PA. market.


KJWP Wilmington, VHF Channel 2, is the sister station to KVNV Middletown Township, VHF Channel 3. Both stations have traveled over 2,000 miles eastward, courtesy of 47 U.S.C. § 331(a), known commonly as a section of the Communications Act. Both stations will be affiliates of the Me-TV Network (KJWP is already on the air). KJWP elected must-carry status on MSTV providers in Central New Jersey, and this is what happened:

Some Jersey Cablevision Customers Could Lose CBS2 

ROBBINSVILLE: Cablevision will maintain WCBS 


In the NYC market, the Channel 3 allocation is coveted. It is sandwiched between WCBS-TV (ironic, given the Central NJ displacement situation) and WNBC. From a programming perspective, Me-TV is generally programmed to a somewhat mature audience. CBS, similarly, is generally programmed to that same audience. The CBS network lineup is presently performing very well, therefore, having a close proximity to a high-performer is a geographic positive.


----------



## veedon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17080_10#post_24378063
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those networks will likely be on the wrong end of an eviction notice from their channel 3 allocations shortly after PMCM TV, LLC. signs-on in Manhattan. Accordingly, they will be displaced to another channel allocation. For anyone who doubts this, you need only look at what happened when the same owners signed-on in the Philadelphia, PA. market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KJWP Wilmington, VHF Channel 2, is the sister station to KVNV Middletown Township, VHF Channel 3. .... KJWP elected must-carry status on MSTV providers in Central New Jersey, and this is what happened:
> 
> Some Jersey Cablevision Customers Could Lose CBS2
> 
> ROBBINSVILLE: Cablevision will maintain WCBS
> 
> 
> In the NYC market, the Channel 3 allocation is coveted. It is sandwiched between WCBS-TV (ironic, given the Central NJ displacement situation) and WNBC....
Click to expand...

 

Those articles from Central Jersey were enlightening and amusing. The first one made it sound as though the poor, oppressed cable systems had no choice but to completely drop WCBS to make room for KJWP.

 

I was thinking "Come on. Cable systems add new channels all the time. Just find a new spot for WCBS."

Then I read the second article, the one about a local government putting the muscle on the cable company to straighten up and fly right and quit whining. Good for that local government!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

WNYJ-TV West Milford has updated its broadcast channel line-up. _France 24_ is now available 24/7 over virtual channel 66-2. Program guide information is accurate, but the TVCT still reflects *WNYJ-2* as the stream's short name. *WNYJ-3*, on virtual channel 66-3, is still carrying _MHz Worldview_ and now with accurate program guide information. The only change to *WFME-FM* has been including accurate program guide information.


For the benefit of Philadelphia area viewers, there is this note placed on the station's website:


> Quote:
> _Note:_ Beginning on February 14, 2014, our over-the-air broadcast to the Philadelphia metro area will be moved from Channel 35-66 to Channel 35-5. Viewers will need to perform a rescan in order to continue watching WNYJ without interruption.



Apparently, the simulcast on WYBE Philadelphia still exists but is no longer reciprocal.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


I contacted them about a month ago and they updated their EPG for 7 days of guide info as I requested.










However since then (within the past 2 weeks) it appears their EPG no longer reflects 7 days and is back to 24 hours as far as I can see.










With the snow storms and bad weather I was having trouble picking this station up so I was not able to watch any programming or check the EPG.


I guess I'll have to reach out to them and see if they can expand their EPG again.


Do you happen to know what the issues are for a station to provide more than 24 hours of EPG? Is it a lot of work?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hi Len









> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24410536
> 
> 
> Giacomo,
> 
> 
> I contacted them about a month ago and they updated their EPG for 7 days of guide info as I requested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However since then (within the past 2 weeks) it appears their EPG no longer reflects 7 days and is back to 24 hours as far as I can see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the snow storms and bad weather I was having trouble picking this station up so I was not able to watch any programming or check the EPG.
> 
> 
> I guess I'll have to reach out to them and see if they can expand their EPG again.
> 
> 
> Do you happen to know what the issues are for a station to provide more than 24 hours of EPG? Is it a lot of work?



I direct you to page 33 within this linked technical document:

*ATSC Recommended Practice: Program and System Information Protocol Implementation Guidelines for Broadcasters*


----------



## LenL

GS,


Thanks for the PDF file.


Yes page 33 explains the guidelines which it appears few stations in the NY area are following and so I guess I can use that to bang them over the head with even though it would appear to that these are just that...GUIDELINES and not enforceable rules.


On the other hand this PDF did not answer the big question for me as to how much work is it to actually send 7 days and not 24 hours. I can't get a handle as to how much time it takes for an engineer or whomever to put together 24 hours versus 7 days of guide in the broadcast stream.


I also found it interesting that technically 16 days can be sent per this PDF and not one station comes close to this.


----------



## Trip in VA

The actual FCC rule is 12 hours of guide data.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip,


Do you have any idea as to how much more work it is to do more than 12?



Also how does one get phone numbers for station engineers and is this really a station engineer issue or an issue with whomever does the handoff of the program guide to the engineers to send with the broadcast signal? I'm thinking this is more of a communication issue between the engineers who receive the schedule and another station's department which has the info and sends it to the engineers.


----------



## Theducksfan2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24467454
> 
> 
> The actual FCC rule is 12 hours of guide data.
> 
> 
> - Trip


What stations are required to provide the 12 hours of guide data? I see numerous channels broadcasting absolutely no guide data at all.


----------



## Trip in VA

Theducksfan2010: Full power and Class A only. LPTVs do not have to.


LenL: I think it depends. Some stations probably import their own schedule, and that probably requires some non-engineering type to do extra work. Many others have guide insertion from a provider, and I don't know how they bill. It may be more expensive to do more than the minimum, but I really don't know.


- Trip


----------



## Theducksfan2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24473983
> 
> 
> Theducksfan2010: Full power and Class A only. LPTVs do not have to.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That sucks, as over half of the stations I get are LPTV. Hopefully, after the 20th, when the 20 new channels are up and broadcasting full time, the fine folks at Rovi will add them to their guide data.


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Theducksfan2010*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24474588
> 
> 
> That sucks, as over half of the stations I get are LPTV. Hopefully, after the 20th, when the 20 new channels are up and broadcasting full time, the fine folks at Rovi will add them to their guide data.



What 20 new channels might you be referring to?


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL,


Theducksfan2010 lives in California.


- Trip


----------



## Theducksfan2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LenL*  /t/2 30 75729/new-york-ny-ota/17070#post_24478266
> 
> 
> What 20 new channels might you be referring to?



I have the same problem as you, none of the 114 channels I get carry more than 36 hours of data. Most are between 12-24. The 30 plus low power ones carry none. But as @Trip in VA was nice enough to point out to me, they are not required to.


I'm in a different market than you, so you will not pick up the new stations, in northern CA. But there is a lot of good useful info in this thread, as well as some of the same problems I face.


The guy I spoke to at Rovi was very helpful though. So after they are all on the air, I will make a detailed list of all channels, and any discrepancies in their guide. He asked it to be emailed to him, so they can make corrections.


I wish they were PSIP data though, not all of my reviewers have Rovi guide access.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> none of the 114 stations I get carry more than 36 hours of data.



You don't get 114 stations, you likely can get no more than about 35-45 or so stations, at most. However, with digital broadcasting, each station can multi-cast additional sub-channels. Some operators cram as many as 10 subs of sub-par quality into a single station while most have up to two or three subs in addition to their primary channel.


----------



## Theducksfan2010




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectSHO89*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24480862
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get 114 stations, you likely can get no more than about 35-45 or so stations, at most. However, with digital broadcasting, each station can multi-cast additional sub-channels. Some operators cram as many as 10 subs of sub-par quality into a single station while most have up to two or three subs in addition to their primary channel.


My mistake, I meant 114 channels, off of 43 stations (not including inversion channels). I simply meant that even with that large of a number, culled between 4 markets (most all of them from 2), that like @LenL  PSIP program data rarely extends more than 24 hours (if it does it is only by a few), and receiving a large number of LPTV stations, I get no PSIP guide data on those.


----------



## NYC10033

Me-TV has a good lineup of shows but I wish one of these Retro TV channels would start broadcasting "The Wild Wild West" series in NYC metro area.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

PMCM TV LLC. still does not have a construction permit for KVNV, the Middletown Township television station. In fact, a revised application specifying minimally reduced ERP and a minimally higher antenna was recently submitted to the FCC. Both applications are still outstanding.


As most of you are aware, KJWP Wilmington, in the Philadelphia, PA. market, is also owned by PMCM TV LLC. It is therefore likely that when KVNV signs on in Manhattan, NY. to serve Middletown Township, New Jersey, its programming will be nearly identical to KJWP, given that both stations are intended to serve as primary affiliates of the Me TV Network.


But here is a heads up for those who wonder what the programming will be like. According to another discussion forum, and specifically a sub-forum which discusses television in the Philadelphia market, "Paid Programming" was observed at 6AM ET. on KJWP Wilmington. So I checked the programming listings for that market. Sure enough, a four-hour block of paid programming airs weekdays from 5AM - 9AM, Saturday from 5AM - 8AM followed by mandatory E/I programming from 8AM - 11AM, and Sunday from 6AM - 9AM followed by additional mandatory E/I programming from 9AM - 11AM. It should be noted that the block of E/I programming carried by Me TV includes a Canadian television series, _Edgemont_, which aired from 2001 to 2005 on CBC Television.


What this all comes down to is that when KVNV signs-on, the overwhelming majority of New York City market viewers will finally have access to the Chicago-based classic television network Me TV. It has been long-awaited. So long, in fact, that about two months ago, some overly eager individuals twice went over to the KVNV Wikipedia page and vandalized it to reflect that the station was now airing in the NYC market. Apparently they felt, "so let it be written, so let it be done" But, unlike the direct feed that is presently enjoyed by the lucky bastards hooked up to the Time Warner Cable Manhattan system, the PMCM TV local affiliates will apparently not be providing an uninterrupted 24/7 feed from the Windy City. But despite the early morning interruption, viewers should still embrace this new programming service. KVNV will, after all, provide more hours of coverage than the Bridgeport, CT. affiliate did and be available to a significantly larger viewing population.


----------



## AloEuro

I have opened 46- 3 EEE Spanish Christian broadcasting

46- 1 was running, now color bars

46- 2 I see only commercials

46- 4 color bars


----------



## dstoffa

WZME-DT has added an additional stream.


WZME-DT (43.1) is still Me-TV

WZMD-DT2 (43.2) is now "the Works", while

RetroTV (43.3) has moved to WZME-DT3



The lineup change has yet to be picked up by zap2it et al.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## unsmiley


I am not getting any of the channel 43's; I am in Manhattan.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey unsmiley,


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *unsmiley*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24626023
> 
> 
> I am not getting any of the channel 43's; I am in Manhattan.



You should try manually entering in channel 42; that is the RF channel WZME Bridgeport transmits over.


But I wouldn't be surprised if you ultimately cannot receive this station. Receiving New York City stations can be a challenge in Manhattan, and I would guess it could be even harder to receive rimshot signals from Connecticut.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *unsmiley*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24626023
> 
> 
> I am not getting any of the channel 43's; I am in Manhattan.



Don't count on getting WZME unless you're on the northern tip of Manhattan with an outdoor antenna.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24638025
> 
> 
> Don't count on getting WZME unless you're on the northern tip of Manhattan with an outdoor antenna.



I receive it on the South Shore of long Island, less than 5 miles from JFK (I am south of the Southern State Pkwy) with an outdoor antenna that isn't even facing the right way....


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24639205
> 
> 
> I receive it on the South Shore of long Island, less than 5 miles from JFK (I am south of the Southern State Pkwy) with an outdoor antenna that isn't even facing the right way....



Sorry I should have been more clear on my post. I was replying to user unsmiley from an unspecified Manhattan location.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/16650#post_23429203
> 
> 
> WLIW will be going HD by end of summer



After much delay, it's finally going to happen in the next 30 days!


----------



## reddice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24640125
> 
> 
> After much delay, it's finally going to happen in the next 30 days!


About time. This day and age a full power TV station should not be in 480i.


----------



## rothe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24640125
> 
> 
> After much delay, it's finally going to happen in the next 30 days!



Well, yay! I can actually receive that at the Jersey shore, even though it's not a line-of-sight signal for me. Since WNET is VHF, and arguably a bit underpowered, I can't get it. This will fill that need.


----------



## reddice

I can barely receive WLIW OTA but I know Dish Network will carry it in HD eventually as they have all the local stations in HD except ION channel 31.


----------



## unsmiley


I am on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.  For Channel 42 I get "weak signal" message but no picture or sound; same thing for Channel 43.


----------



## unsmiley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24640125
> 
> 
> 
> After much delay, it's finally going to happen in the next 30 days!


This may be a stupid question, but going HD won't make it any easier to receive in WLIW 21 in Manhattan, correct?  I cannot get WLIW OTA now with my unamplified rabbit ears.


----------



## ProjectSHO89




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *unsmiley*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24645635
> 
> 
> This may be a stupid question, but going HD won't make it any easier to receive in WLIW 21 in Manhattan, correct?  I cannot get WLIW OTA now with my unamplified rabbit ears.



It will make no difference.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24640125
> 
> 
> After much delay, it's finally going to happen in the next 30 days!



Looks like Thursday May 1 st


----------



## flatronic


WLIW is in HD now on FiOS – not sure about OTA.


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatronic*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24691554
> 
> 
> WLIW is in HD now on FiOS – not sure about OTA.



OTA up and running too.


----------



## dm145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dturturro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24694678
> 
> 
> OTA up and running too.



720p or 1080i ?


----------



## mikepier

I think I remember seeing 1080i OTA.


As a sidenote, Cablevision has it in HD on 721, but on Ch 21 it shows it in SD.


It does not appear they have mapped the SD channes to the HD channel, like they do with the other channels ( ex, if you tune to Ch 2 or 702, the HD picture is shown)


----------



## reddice

Disk Network still does not have it yet but it will come soon as they have all the other networks even channel 31 now in HD.


----------



## AloEuro

Lately WABC ch.7 signal breaks, showing pixelation


----------



## dturturro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dm145*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24695939
> 
> 
> 720p or 1080i ?



Yes, it's broadcasting at 1080i.


----------



## unsmiley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AloEuro*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24700360
> 
> 
> Lately WABC ch.7 signal breaks, showing pixelation


Yes I have been getting the same thing (in Manhattan), with both WABC 7 and WNET 13 for about the last month.  Never had any problems for about a year before.  Now I have to move my rabbit ears around and that is a pain.  What could be the cause and how to remedy it?


----------



## AloEuro

Unsmiley, You in Manhattan me in Brooklyn having the same problem means to me that moving Antenna would not solve the problem, I blame the studio WABC 7. maybe Trip knows


----------



## Aero 1

ABC working perfectly for me 18 miles away in NJ.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24615333
> 
> 
> WZME-DT has added an additional stream.
> 
> 
> WZME-DT (43.1) is still Me-TV
> 
> WZMD-DT2 (43.2) is now "the Works", while
> 
> RetroTV (43.3) has moved to WZME-DT3
> 
> 
> 
> The lineup change has yet to be picked up by zap2it et al.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



It would seem that as of the time of this posting, WZME has dumped all three streams above and is now sending:


43-1 CCTV News

43-2 CCTV4

43-3 CCTV Spanish


I wonder if they flipped the switch at midnight this morning. My DVR recording "The Rockford Files" yesterday (5/11) afternoon, but failed to record "The Saint" this morning (5/12) at 4am. Can anyone else confirm the change in programming?



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm guessing you're actually receiving WNXY-LD.


- Trip


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24712067
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you're actually receiving WNXY-LD.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well, until last night, I was getting WZME instead for almost a year.... I made no changes to my rig.


I guess since they both display on 43-x, my tuner keeps the last station found, which is WNXY.... since it is on RF 43, and WZME is on RF 42....


The database for WNXY reads they are off the air... Apparently NOT! (anymore...)


----------



## Aero 1

Any news on KVNV launch date?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24712067
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you're actually receiving WNXY-LD.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Well, if they (WNXY-LD) came back on the air, they successfully created a co-channel interference at my location for WZME.


When re-scanning, my tuner (CM-7000 D2A converter) scans these channels in the following order: (I've only included the main calls, not the sub channels)


WKOB

WABC

WPIX

WPXU

WNET

WMBC

WLIW

WNYE

WASA

WNBC

WFUT

WCBS

WNJU

WWOR

WXTV

WZME

WNYW

WMUN

WBQM

WNJN


I did scan KYW from Philly and WLNY from Riverhead last night, but no luck this morning.


What shcoks me is that the tuner, during setup, informs me it finds WZME on 43-1, TheWorks on 43-2, and RTV on 43-3, but yet tunes CCTV when I select those channels....


Disappointing...


----------



## Trip in VA

I suspect WNXY-LD on RF43 maps to 43-1 just as WZME on RF42 does. Some tuners don't handle such conflicts very gracefully. If it says it's finding those three channels, then it's probably finding WNXY-LD right after and overwriting them in its memory. I'm not sure I have a good answer for what to do to prevent that.


- Trip


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24713292
> 
> 
> I suspect WNXY-LD on RF43 maps to 43-1 just as WZME on RF42 does. Some tuners don't handle such conflicts very gracefully. If it says it's finding those three channels, then it's probably finding WNXY-LD right after and overwriting them in its memory. I'm not sure I have a good answer for what to do to prevent that.
> 
> 
> - Trip



The only solution I can think of is to:


1. Have WNXY go dark.

2. Turn the antenna to scan for WZME, then turn the antenna back, and don't ever update again.


Just wait for MeTV to move to Channel 3...


Heck, I am more inclined to turn the antenna towards Philadelphia for alternative NFL selections in the fall...


----------



## foxxyredd


Hi,

 

I've just discovered your site.  Are there any recent posts from 2014 regarding OTA Antenna.  I live on the Upper West Side 5th, window looking west and surrounded by higher buildings.  I have the Mohu, which isn't that great for reception.  Most of the time, I have to relied on my computer, slingbox (from Chicago), and even Aereo;  all are 100% reception, most include some kind of interruptions like, pixelations, words cut off, weak signal or no signal black screens.  I'm almost postive that my landlord AIMCO won't let me put an OTA Antenna on the roof.  

 

Any recommendations.

 

Thanks.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxxyredd*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24717959
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I've just discovered your site.  Are there any recent posts from 2014 regarding OTA Antenna.  I live on the Upper West Side 5th, window looking west and surrounded by higher buildings.  I have the Mohu, which isn't that great for reception.  Most of the time, I have to relied on my computer, slingbox (from Chicago), and even Aereo;  all are 100% reception, most include some kind of interruptions like, pixelations, words cut off, weak signal or no signal black screens.  I'm almost postive that my landlord AIMCO won't let me put an OTA Antenna on the roof.
> 
> 
> Any recommendations.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I have helped many people in a similar situation. Getting a pair of $2 rabbit ears and sticking out the window in many cases can get you most major networks. Even though you may not have line of sight to Empire State Bldg or any other transmitter, just being outdoors makes a big difference. If you have a fire escape, its easier to hide it from plain view and you can try extending the dipoles all the way and securing it so it doesnt obstruct path in the event of an emergency. I've also placed rabbit ears on top of window air conditioner units and brought coax in thru the side panels. For those Manhattan people where cable feed comes from the window you can repurpose the coax already coming into in by disconnecting the spliced/barreled/ F-81 connector. If you live in a strict building make sure whatever you do can't be seen easily from street level


----------



## Trip in VA

I saw recent Wikipedia edits showing WBQM-LD with new programming on 51-2 and 51-4. Can anyone confirm the presence of said new programming?


- Trip


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxxyredd*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24717959
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I've just discovered your site.  Are there any recent posts from 2014 regarding OTA Antenna.  I live on the Upper West Side 5th, window looking west and surrounded by higher buildings.  I have the Mohu, which isn't that great for reception.  Most of the time, I have to relied on my computer, slingbox (from Chicago), and even Aereo;  all are 100% reception, most include some kind of interruptions like, pixelations, words cut off, weak signal or no signal black screens.  I'm almost postive that my landlord AIMCO won't let me put an OTA Antenna on the roof.
> 
> 
> Any recommendations.
> 
> 
> Thanks.


Since you are new on this Forum, and you are on p.572, I think you should surf it from beginning, undoubtedly you will find answer to your location issue problem, as far Antenna matter is concerned take the Nyctweng advice


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24724802
> 
> 
> I saw recent Wikipedia edits showing WBQM-LD with new programming on 51-2 and 51-4. Can anyone confirm the presence of said new programming?
> 
> 
> - Trip



At the time of this posting, WBQM 51-2 is airing LATV (Latino Alternative Television). 51-4 is a black screen, although guide data reads there is a 3 hours nameless show on presently.


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks. Let me know if something shows up on 51-4.


- Trip


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Aero 1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24712212
> 
> 
> Any news on KVNV launch date?



So I found the station managers email and asked him and this was his reply:


> Quote:
> We plan to start broadcasting from 4 Times Square July 31 2014 the Nielsen rating book ends July 30. We may start earlier for over the air but that would be only a couple of days. Our call letters will be changed on launch not before (FCC reg) to WJLP and we will be Channel 3. Thanks for inquiring !


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Aero 1,


Thank you for contacting the PMCM station manager, and reposting his reply here.


I must say that his reply is rather contradicting to the facts. Co-owned station KJWP is licensed to Wilmington, Delaware, and is operating with a "K" call-sign. In fact, that station was formerly licensed as KJWY while it operated in Wyoming, and upon the completion of it's move into Delaware and its launch, the call-sign was changed to KJWP to reflect the Philadelphia market in which it now operates. Therefore, FCC regulations apparently don't mandate the dropping of a "K" call-sign under these circumstances.


Furthermore, call-sign "WJLP" in no way reflects the anticipated programming upon this station, it's COL, or it's market. Even the Bridgeport, CT. station changed its long held WSAH call-sign (which stood for "Shop At Home" network) to WZME, in order to reflect it's new Me-TV affiliation. And the owners did this despite the possibility that the TV station may soon become collateral damage in terms of a spectrum auction.


I realize that in this day in age, call-signs, both in radio and television, are usually treated as legal formalities which get buried in heavy imaging or a shorter-than-ten-seconds screenshot. I also realize that most people will be calling this channel, "Me TV" and not by it's legal call-sign. But if the information this station manager provided was correct, it certainly imparts a stark contradiction to what recently occurred in the Philadelphia market, and I would like to know more about it.


Would you care to share this station manager's name?


----------



## veedon


Maybe having a change in call sign is at the station's discretion (with FCC approval), but the manager just meant that the change cannot be officially made until the station actually signs on again. I can see why a station in the NYC market would want to have a call sign that starts with "W". The Philadelphia market has had KYW for years, so perhaps KJWP does not seem so out of place. (And Pittsburgh, of course, has KDKA, so there is a precedent for "K" call signs in Pennsylvania.)


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Giacomo Siffredi*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24742230
> 
> 
> Hey Aero 1,
> 
> 
> Thank you for contacting the PMCM station manager, and reposting his reply here.
> 
> 
> I must say that his reply is rather contradicting to the facts. Co-owned station KJWP is licensed to Wilmington, Delaware, and is operating with a "K" call-sign. In fact, that station was formerly licensed as KJWY while it operated in Wyoming, and upon the completion of it's move into Delaware and its launch, the call-sign was changed to KJWP to reflect the Philadelphia market in which it now operates. Therefore, FCC regulations apparently don't mandate the dropping of a "K" call-sign under these circumstances.
> 
> 
> Furthermore, call-sign "WJLP" in no way reflects the anticipated programming upon this station, it's COL, or it's market. Even the Bridgeport, CT. station changed its long held WSAH call-sign (which stood for "Shop At Home" network) to WZME, in order to reflect it's new Me-TV affiliation. And the owners did this despite the possibility that the TV station may soon become collateral damage in terms of a spectrum auction.
> 
> 
> I realize that in this day in age, call-signs, both in radio and television, are usually treated as legal formalities which get buried in heavy imaging or a shorter-than-ten-seconds screenshot. I also realize that most people will be calling this channel, "Me TV" and not by it's legal call-sign. But if the information this station manager provided was correct, it certainly imparts a stark contradiction to what recently occurred in the Philadelphia market, and I would like to know more about it.
> 
> 
> Would you care to share this station manager's name?



ill PM you his name. Even though its easily found, i rather not put his name here.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *veedon*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24742336
> 
> 
> Maybe having a change in call sign is at the station's discretion (with FCC approval), but the manager just meant that the change cannot be officially made until the station actually signs on again. I can see why a station in the NYC market would want to have a call sign that starts with "W". The Philadelphia market has had KYW for years, so perhaps KJWP does not seem so out of place. (And Pittsburgh, of course, has KDKA, so there is a precedent for "K" call signs in Pennsylvania.)



On the contrary, I would think having a K-call would be an advantage, because it would set you apart from the rest....


Just my two cents.



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24743196
> 
> 
> On the contrary, I would think having a K-call would be an advantage, because it would set you apart from the rest....
> 
> 
> Just my two cents.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



possibly for tech folks that post here but in an age of 500 cable channels or 30 OTA channels, call letters seem to mean nothing. its all about cool names and flashy logos.


----------



## AloEuro




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24730006
> 
> 
> Thanks. Let me know if something shows up on 51-4.
> 
> 
> - Trip


They show some spanish programming, commercials and other, looks like 'hand held' camera work, there is not much to miss, so far


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24743237
> 
> 
> possibly for tech folks that post here but in an age of 500 cable channels or 30 OTA channels, call letters seem to mean nothing. its all about cool names and flashy logos.



While I see your point on both issues, if you can get a K-call, why not?


----------



## Greg2600

So does anyone think that WZME/WSAH Bridgeport will move RetroTV to it's main channel after MeTV goes to KVNV/WJLP? Or is MeTV staying on that station?


Also, can whoever has the WJLP station manager's contact please inquire whether his station will be added to Verizon FIOS, Comcast, TWC, etc? And when? Thanks!


----------



## egold54

Morning everyone,


I just moved my son to LEX and 61st. Trying to save cash was important so he got TM internet and we were going to do OTA for TV along with his netflix and such. I've been OTA in Connecticut for 5 years now. Anyway I set up his htpc I made for him and his tv. I started with a cheap pair of amplified rabbit ears which only got 5 stations. I had bought a MohU metro leaf just in case the ears did not work. With the leaf. I can get a decent amount of channels above 7-1 all the way up into the 60's. I get nothing under 7-1. Abc comes in great though and most of the upper channels do also. Of course there are some that do not. I would like to get the lower channels cbs, nbc and fox.


The tv is in a enclosed room no windows. If I move the leaf 5-6ft. closer to a window I can get a pic of cbs 2-1 but no motion no sound and no nbc or fox.


Trying to get the left to a window would mean going though a bedroom door and non of the room mates wants to give up not being able to close there door all the way.


Would a amplifier work for this situation? What are my other options?


Thanks


----------



## Aero 1

*Two New Broadcast Networks, Escape & Grit, to Launch This Summer*

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/04/03/two-new-broadcast-networks-escape-grit-to-launch-this-summer/250840/ 


> Quote:
> Two New Broadcast Networks to Launch This Summer:
> 
> 
> ESCAPE to be First-Ever Broadcast Network for Women,
> 
> GRIT to Target Men
> 
> 
> Univision to Launch both ESCAPE and GRIT in 30% of the Country
> 
> As a Multicast Channel,
> 
> More Distribution Announcements Expected Shortly
> 
> 
> New Company from Bounce TV Co-Founder and Longtime
> 
> Turner Broadcasting Exec Jonathan Katz
> 
> 
> ATLANTA (April 3, 2014) -- Two new demo-specific broadcast networks created by the architect and Chief Operating Officer of successful African American network Bounce TV will launch in the summer of 2014.
> 
> 
> Escape will target women 25-54 with a brand of programming that's daring, sexy and anchored in stories of crime and mystery. The network's mix of theatrical
> 
> motion pictures and off-net series will emphasize heroines and heroes that slip away from pursuit or peril, while providing viewers themselves the opportunity
> 
> to escape from their daily lives.
> 
> 
> With a heavy focus on western and war genres, action-oriented Grit will be a new television brand built around the classic male hero archetype. Featuring stars
> 
> like John Wayne, Clint Eastwood and Chuck Norris, the network will reach men 25-54 with theatricals and off-network series that are bold, brave and
> 
> legendary.
> 
> 
> The two new networks will be part of Katz Broadcasting, a new company established by Bounce TV founder/COO and former Turner Broadcasting executive
> 
> Jonathan Katz. Katz Broadcasting will own and operate the two new networks. Katz will serve as President and CEO while continuing as COO of Bounce TV.
> 
> 
> "Free broadcast television is experiencing a renaissance in this new age of media disruption, as more and more consumers combine over-the-air with
> 
> over-the-top services," commented Katz. "Distributing Escape and Grit alongside successful demo-specific networks like Bounce TV makes the burgeoning new
> 
> broadcast ecosystem closely resemble the early days of basic cable, providing viewers diverse new choices."
> 
> 
> Univision Television Group, which owns and/or operates television stations in major U.S. markets, will launch both Escape and Grit as a multicast channel on
> 
> stations representing more than 30% of U.S. television households. Initial markets include New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas, Houston and Miami.
> 
> 
> Katz has tapped Bounce TV Executive Vice President of Network Distribution, Jeffrey Wolf, former EVP of U.S. Syndication Sales for Sony Pictures Television
> 
> and widely respected as an innovator within the industry, to serve as Chief Distribution Officer. "We are being very strategic and selective when
> 
> determining our partners for these new networks," commented Wolf. "Bounce TV has enjoyed an extremely successful relationship with Univision and we couldn't be more thrilled to call Univision the launch group for both new networks. We look forward to another mutually-beneficial partnership for many years to come."
> 
> 
> Both Escape and Grit expect to make further distribution announcements in the coming weeks.



They will be added as sub channels on WXTV Univision 41. Trip has them listed on his site as Channel 40.3 for Escape and 40.4 for Grit.


http://www.escapetv.com/ 

 

http://www.grittv.com/


----------



## Trip in VA

I have no inside information, just a best guess on where they will land.


- Trip


----------



## LenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *egold54*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24775037
> 
> 
> Morning everyone,
> 
> 
> I just moved my son to LEX and 61st. Trying to save cash was important so he got TM internet and we were going to do OTA for TV along with his netflix and such. I've been OTA in Connecticut for 5 years now. Anyway I set up his htpc I made for him and his tv. I started with a cheap pair of amplified rabbit ears which only got 5 stations. I had bought a MohU metro leaf just in case the ears did not work. With the leaf. I can get a decent amount of channels above 7-1 all the way up into the 60's. I get nothing under 7-1. Abc comes in great though and most of the upper channels do also. Of course there are some that do not. I would like to get the lower channels cbs, nbc and fox.
> 
> 
> The tv is in a enclosed room no windows. If I move the leaf 5-6ft. closer to a window I can get a pic of cbs 2-1 but no motion no sound and no nbc or fox.
> 
> 
> Trying to get the left to a window would mean going though a bedroom door and non of the room mates wants to give up not being able to close there door all the way.
> 
> 
> Would a amplifier work for this situation? What are my other options?
> 
> 
> Thanks



What you are calling the lower channels such as 5.1, 4.1 and 2.1 are actually UHF and above 7.1 which is VHF in the broadcast spectrum. 7.1 is actually really 7.1. As far as I know The leaf is not really a good VHF antenna so you should be able to get the UHF channels better. Can you tell us which channels you ARE getting? The transmitters are at the Empire State building so it would be good to know your location in reference to it.


----------



## egold54

Thanks for the response. He is at 61st and lex. 3rd floor walk up. He gets 7-1 (abc) fine. I do get the ones above 7-1. I don't remember all the channels a few spanish ones, a movie channel, shopping channel, GET Tv and a few others and that is with the leaf hung above the tv on a inner wall. If I move it towards his bedroom where there is a window (nbc) 4-1 does not even show in the channel lineup 2-1 cbs i see a pic. but no sound and it's just frozen. If I remember we do get fox it can go in and out though. The window faces lex. I live in CT and have a outdoor antenna in my attic. I get all the channels tv fool and antenna web say I should be able to get. I read a lot of reviews about the leaf and was surprised I did not get cbs and nbc and a better signal with fox. I'm wondering if a signal booster would help or is there another option besides extending the antenna wire to a window which would prevent him from closing his door. He rents so drilling is not an option.


Thanks again


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *egold54*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24775948
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response. He is at 61st and lex. 3rd floor walk up.



I guess the better question to ask is where is his window in relation to the Empire State Building?


61st and Lex is NNE of ESB - Much more north than east. You want his antenna to face the Empire State Building. So if his window faces south, you should be in good shape. If it faces north, then the antenna will more likely be picking up reflected signals from the building across the street.


HOWEVER, midtown is full of tall buildings, and radio signals (TV is sent via radio signals) bounce off things. Your son is living in a lotto ping pong ball machine....


The Mohu Leaf antenna is probably not a good choice for his location, because it is omni-directional, and will pick up reflected and scattered signals (multi-path). You want an indoor yagi, like this: http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/SR8_indoor_yagi.html which will only receive signals from one direction, and block out signals from other directions.


Since he is so close to the ESB, he may have no issue picking up VHF (7, 9, and 13) with it, too.


You may also try shortening up the rabbit ears a bit... Each ear should be extended no more than 18 inches. Shortening them up further MAY improve UHF reception (2, 4, 5, 9).



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## egold54

Thanks for the response Doug.


Very interesting explanation. His window looks overlooks LEX so I'm thinking his window faces west. With the leaf against the wall where the tv is, The leaf would be facing south the right direction but also has to go through the walls of many other buildings next to him. With the leaf facing his window or west it was the best reception above 7-1 or ABC but still could not get the lower UHF channels. Only the outside wall would be an obstruction. I looked at the SR8 it says it's best for UHF 14-69. Is that what you meant? Those channels seem to be ok. I could have him set the rabbit ears up keep the antenna's to 18" and play with the other inner circle for vhf. I'm also using a vhs/uhf splitter. one side going to the tv the other side going to the tuner in the computer so he can record one thing while watching another. Would that make a difference? Are you talking about using 2 different types of antenna's and the using a uhf/vhf combiner into 1? I sent him to aereo if all else fails. The only real issue is it's web based. I use media browser3 to stream recorded tv and other media to my other devices including my roku and can access it on the net also. Did not think this would be so hard but it does make sense with the all the tall building and signals bouncing off everything.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *egold54*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24776480
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response Doug.
> 
> 
> Very interesting explanation. His window looks overlooks LEX so I'm thinking his window faces west. With the leaf against the wall where the tv is, The leaf would be facing south the right direction but also has to go through the walls of many other buildings next to him. With the leaf facing his window or west it was the best reception above 7-1 or ABC but still could not get the lower UHF channels. Only the outside wall would be an obstruction. I looked at the SR8 it says it's best for UHF 14-69. Is that what you meant? Those channels seem to be ok. I could have him set the rabbit ears up keep the antenna's to 18" and play with the other inner circle for vhf. I'm also using a vhs/uhf splitter. one side going to the tv the other side going to the tuner in the computer so he can record one thing while watching another. Would that make a difference? Are you talking about using 2 different types of antenna's and the using a uhf/vhf combiner into 1? I sent him to aereo if all else fails. The only real issue is it's web based. I use media browser3 to stream recorded tv and other media to my other devices including my roku and can access it on the net also. Did not think this would be so hard but it does make sense with the all the tall building and signals bouncing off everything.



Woa... Lots of info here which would explain a great many things...


First off, some statements:


CBS (33), NBC (28), FOX (44), and My9 (38) are all on UHF.

ABC (7), PIX11 (11), and PBS (13) are on VHF.


This is true no matter how the stations brand themselves.


Rabbit ears were typically used for VHF, with the loop used for UHF. Back in the day when CBS, NBC, and FOX were actually on VHF, you needed to extend the rabbit ears to their full length because those channels were on frequencies with long wavelengths, and you needed a bigger antenna to grab the signal. Today, not so. The Hi-VHF channels (7-13) do not require elements as long. In a nutshell, you want your antenna to resonate with the signal you are trying to receive. Optimal Hi-VHF reception requires elements 14-18" in length. Consequently, UHF elements need to be much shorter (5-6" or so).


If you are planning to use one antenna for two devices (one TV, one computer tuner), you DO NOT want to use a VHF/UHF splitter . Such a device takes a signal, sends only VHF down one side, and only UHF down the other. If you want to make use of a splitter, you need to use something like this . They may look the same, but they are very different. If you are using the former, that may explain why you cannot receive CBS, FOX, and NBC. (But you get Univision... so I wonder...)


What kind of rabbit ears is he using? VHF only like this one ]? Or one with a loop ?


Have you tried sticking the antenna out the window and seeing if reception improves? That would tell us if the building is causing all the problems...



When you are close to the transmitters, things are more forgiving with reception, which is why I stated that he might get away with the SR8 and still receive 7, 11, and 13...


You could use two antennas and the VHF / UHF combiner, and then a splitter, but lets see if the "antenna out the window" works. If it does, maybe you can make some type of jig that makes use of the window and its sill to mount the antenna outside.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## egold54

The splitters were the one you posted 1 in 2 out. Sorry if I did not make that clear. The rabbit ears are from radio shack they are amplified and have the loop in the middle. I tried them with the ears fully extended and power to the amplifier.. The scan came back with only 5 channels. After that I tossed it to the side and played with the leaf. I'll have to look around for a long enough cable to run the leaf outside the window. I'll be going back down there in a few weeks and will check out the 2 antenna's i have and with your info. I'll be more prepared to see what is going on. Thanks for your help Doug and will keep you up to date on what I find out.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *egold54*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24777135
> 
> 
> The splitters were the one you posted 1 in 2 out. Sorry if I did not make that clear. The rabbit ears are from radio shack they are amplified and have the loop in the middle. I tried them with the ears fully extended and power to the amplifier.. The scan came back with only 5 channels. After that I tossed it to the side and played with the leaf. I'll have to look around for a long enough cable to run the leaf outside the window. I'll be going back down there in a few weeks and will check out the 2 antenna's i have and with your info. I'll be more prepared to see what is going on. Thanks for your help Doug and will keep you up to date on what I find out.



Next time you visit, please use one antenna, one cable (no splitters) and just the television. You need to start simple and determine the root cause of the reception problem.


Also, bring an un-amplified antenna. If you are receiving multi-path signals, and amplifier just makes the problem worse. noise --> amplifier --> NOISE!!!


Good luck.


----------



## flatronic


48.2 on WRNN is now Arise News.


----------



## csworldwide1

This should be a celebration for the viewers and the engineers at the ABC O&Os.

B&C stated that ABC will discontinue its digital subchannel network, Live Well Network in January 2015.


Now they can put all those bits back into the main channels again.


----------



## Kascnef82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *csworldwide1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17160#post_24810206
> 
> 
> This should be a celebration for the viewers and the engineers at the ABC O&Os.
> 
> B&C stated that ABC will discontinue its digital subchannel network, Live Well Network in January 2015.
> 
> 
> Now they can put all those bits back into the main channels again.



Finally...party like it's pre 2009. The live well channels were also used for carrying ABC programming when the main abc channels had breaking news. I remember watching ABC HD for the first time and marveled at the decent quality of the feed. For sports programming, ABC should follow ESPN's 16:9 look much like the other networks (NBC was the most recent this year). The only time i watch ABC is Jeopardy, Eyewitness News, the NBA Finals, and the Oscars. Oh, and the world cup, but next year Faux sports will air it with Univision airing it.


----------



## veedon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *csworldwide1*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17160_10#post_24810206
> 
> 
> This should be a celebration for the viewers and the engineers at the ABC O&Os.
> 
> B&C stated that ABC will discontinue its digital subchannel network, Live Well Network in January 2015.
> 
> 
> Now they can put all those bits back into the main channels again.


 

 

I'm not convinced that a lot of the programming on ABC is worthy of those extra bits. All of American television needs to improve a lot. The programming is currently quite dreadful. Some of the "retro" subchannels are superior to the main channels.


----------



## dtv_junkie87




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *veedon*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17160#post_24812245
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not convinced that a lot of the programming on ABC is worthy of those extra bits. All of American television needs to improve a lot. The programming is currently quite dreadful. Some of the "retro" subchannels are superior to the main channels.



Hey! I actually like ALL of the retro networks available with an antenna!


Anyway, joining in on the conversation: I saw on a WABC story about Donald Duck's 80th birthday that a person suggested that Live Well be replaced with a retro Disney network. Anybody else agree? Personally, I think a night of _Jeopardy!_ and _Wheel_ on 7-1 followed by _Pinocchio_ and _Mary Poppins_ on 7-2 is a smart choice, IMHO.


dtv_junkie87


----------



## Greg2600

Who's to say they won't replace Live Well with something else?


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17160#post_24813824
> 
> 
> Who's to say they won't replace Live Well with something else?



yup exactly. It is valuable space already in the home of every OTA and cable viewer that has ABC main channel that they will not want to give up. Most likely it will be some sort of news channel whether it be local (repurposed content from regular newscasts) or a reborn national service like ABC News Now .They have several months to put together a game plan.


----------



## veedon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nyctveng*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17160_10#post_24814059
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg2600*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17160#post_24813824
> 
> 
> Who's to say they won't replace Live Well with something else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yup exactly. It is valuable space already in the home of every OTA and cable viewer that has ABC main channel that they will not want to give up. Most likely it will be some sort of news channel whether it be local (repurposed content from regular newscasts) or a reborn national service like ABC News Now .They have several months to put together a game plan.
Click to expand...

 

 

The Keith Channel: All Olbermann, all the time.


----------



## markrubin

in case you have not heard, AVS is moving back to v Bulletin tomorrow: see link in my sig


it will be like coming home again


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17130#post_24730006
> 
> 
> Thanks. Let me know if something shows up on 51-4.
> 
> 
> - Trip



It would appear that 51-4 is now showing "Teleuniverso".


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100#post_24615333
> 
> 
> WZME-DT has added an additional stream.
> 
> 
> WZME-DT (43.1) is still Me-TV
> 
> WZMD-DT2 (43.2) is now "the Works", while
> 
> RetroTV (43.3) has moved to WZME-DT3
> 
> 
> 
> The lineup change has yet to be picked up by zap2it et al.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



WZME-DT is still Me-TV (43.1)

WZME-DT2 is still "the works" (43.2)

WZMD-DT3 is now broadcasting a static title card which reads, "RetroTV is no longer available on WZME 43-3"


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa*  /t/275729/new-york-ny-ota/17100_100#post_24816722
> 
> 
> It would appear that 51-4 is now showing "Teleuniverso".



Thanks!


- Trip


----------



## JoeSchmoe007

Is this my TV or did Thirteen really move from 13.1 to 13.2 in NYC? 13.1 is now Vme channel (Spanish Language).


----------



## Aero 1

JoeSchmoe007 said:


> Is this my TV or did Thirteen really move from 13.1 to 13.2 in NYC? 13.1 is now Vme channel (Spanish Language).


It's just you. It's fine for me.


----------



## nyctveng

JoeSchmoe007 said:


> Is this my TV or did Thirteen really move from 13.1 to 13.2 in NYC? 13.1 is now Vme channel (Spanish Language).


Do a rescan. WNET moved their facilities and reconfigured PIDs.


----------



## JoeSchmoe007

nyctveng said:


> JoeSchmoe007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this my TV or did Thirteen really move from 13.1 to 13.2 in NYC? 13.1 is now Vme channel (Spanish Language).
> 
> 
> 
> Do a rescan. WNET moved their facilities and reconfigured PIDs.
Click to expand...

Did a rescan and WNET is now on 13.1 again. However, I don't have 11.1 anymore. Come to think of it, I stopped receiving it a while ago but never cared about it until now. Were there any changes in 11.1 broadcast?


----------



## reddice

Is WNET still on the Empire State Building?


----------



## veedon

The NY Times reports that the spectrum auction could lead to parts of New Jersey no longer having a public television station available OTA. The governor of NJ wouldn't let something like that happen, would he?
I guess residents of northern NJ would still be OK, though, because they could still receive WNET's signal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/business/media/worries-over-access-to-free-public-tv.html?_r=0


----------



## reddice

Doesn't the mobile phone companies have enough spectrum already. Why are they forcing OTA cord cutters less channels and making them subscribe to expensive cable/satellite packages? The way it is going soon all spectrum including FM radio will be all for the mobile networks.


----------



## veedon

reddice said:


> Doesn't the mobile phone companies have enough spectrum already. Why are they forcing OTA cord cutters less channels and making them subscribe to expensive cable/satellite packages? The way it is going soon all spectrum including FM radio will be all for the mobile networks.


Congress passed a law that requires the FCC to run a spectrum auction.
Apparently the lobbyists for AT&T and Verizon have more clout than OTA viewers have.


----------



## tld

nyctveng said:


> Do a rescan. WNET moved their facilities and reconfigured PIDs.


Boy they sure did. This made a mess on my MythTV system was was tricky to clean up. The old PIDs (serviceid in MythTV) for 13.1, 13.2, and 13.3 respectively where 5, 3, and 4 respectively. Apparently they decided to "fix" things so that the PIDs for those channels are now 3, 4, and 5.

When I rescanned it effectively found and updated the stations by the frequency and the old PID, making the xmltvid and guide data completely out of whack. Took forever to get straightened out.

Tom


----------



## reddice

But is WNET still broadcasting on the ESB or are they on 4TS or 1WTC?


----------



## nyctveng

reddice said:


> But is WNET still broadcasting on the ESB or are they on 4TS or 1WTC?


Nothing is being broadcast from 1WTC at the moment


----------



## cjv123

I'm in NJ, and I only receive the World Cup on 68-2 and then in SD, not HD. Can someone explain to me why the WC is not being broadcast (on 68-1) and in HD? Is Univision cowering before the CableCos for some reason?


----------



## Aero 1

cjv123 said:


> I'm in NJ, and I only receive the World Cup on 68-2 and then in SD, not HD. Can someone explain to me why the WC is not being broadcast (on 68-1) and in HD? Is Univision cowering before the CableCos for some reason?


Cowering? No. You're watching it on the wrong channel. 68.2 is the SD simulcast of Univision 41.1. The World Cup is on 41.1 in HD. 68.1 is Unimas, a whole different channel.


----------



## cjv123

Aero 1 said:


> Cowering? No. You're watching it on the wrong channel. 68.2 is the SD simulcast of Univision 41.1. The World Cup is on 41.1 in HD. 68.1 is Unimas, a whole different channel.


Thanks. My mistake- I never noticed 68.1 was "Unimas"- .


----------



## cjv123

nyctveng said:


> Nothing is being broadcast from 1WTC at the moment


They don't even have an antenna, right? I thought I read in here they didn't even install one as they capped the building, and likely making any future install too expensive to justify.


----------



## George Molnar

cjv123 said:


> They don't even have an antenna, right? I thought I read in here they didn't even install one as they capped the building, and likely making any future install too expensive to justify.


I believe 1WTC's structure is fully roughed in for TV transmission except broadcasters are waiting until the FCC firms up their Spectrum Repacking Initiative so that the proper hardware gets installed. Stations are reluctant to obtain and install transmitters and antenna systems that could become obsolete before the end of their lease period.


----------



## AloEuro

cjv123 said:


> I'm in NJ, and I only receive the World Cup on 68-2 and then in SD, not HD. Can someone explain to me why the WC is not being broadcast (on 68-1) and in HD? Is Univision cowering before the CableCos for some reason?


Some of the matches are shown on 41-1 like Ecuador-France and second match interests to Latinos like Honduras-Swiss would be on 68-2 which is 41SD, similar concept are applied by Univision 41 to other footbal matches .
Univision 41 is the best FIFA carrier


----------



## Aero 1

AloEuro said:


> Univision 41 is the best FIFA carrier


Unfortunately they wont carry quarterfinals, semifinals, third place and championship game. They will be on ESPN with only one quarterfinal game and the championship game being on ABC.


----------



## mets18

Aero 1 said:


> Unfortunately they wont carry quarterfinals, semifinals, third place and championship game. They will be on ESPN with only one quarterfinal game and the championship game being on ABC.


That is false.


----------



## Aero 1

mets18 said:


> That is false.


thanks for that very informative reply. Hope its false. so if thats the case, every news outlet has it wrong.


----------



## mets18

Aero 1 said:


> thanks for that very informative reply. Hope its false. so if thats the case, every news outlet has it wrong.


Which news outlet claims that Univision is not carrying the quarterfinals, semifinals, third place and championship game?


----------



## dvdchance

mets18 said:


> Which news outlet claims that Univision is not carrying the quarterfinals, semifinals, third place and championship game?


Schedule
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/58385/world-cup-2014-television-schedule.html


----------



## turtleworld

reporting in from central NJ. Must be a hell of a tropo going on tonight, lol. Picked this up tonight, wgbh from boston:



http://imgur.com/YFQw0n0%5B/IMG%5D

 ​


http://imgur.com/YFQw0n0.jpg%5B/IMG%5D


----------



## LenL

*Tropo Adding Stations*

Worthless as the stations are added and then when I try to view them there is zero reception. Never found this to be of any real value...just a teaser.


----------



## AloEuro

dvdchance said:


> Schedule
> http://www.socceramerica.com/article/58385/world-cup-2014-television-schedule.html


 Thank you for your enlightening input


----------



## mod50ack

Anybody got an idea if wmun will switch from infomercials? I liked wlny and can't catch it now, but pretty much anything is better than an all-ads channel. What happened to classic arts showcase ?


----------



## Aero 1

Aero 1 said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *Aero 1*
> 
> Any news on KVNV launch date?
> 
> 
> So I found the station managers email and asked him and this was his reply:
> Quote:We plan to start broadcasting from 4 Times Square July 31 2014 the Nielsen rating book ends July 30. We may start earlier for over the air but that would be only a couple of days. Our call letters will be changed on launch not before (FCC reg) to WJLP and we will be Channel 3. Thanks for inquiring !





Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey Aero 1,
> 
> Thank you for contacting the PMCM station manager, and reposting his reply here.
> 
> I must say that his reply is rather contradicting to the facts. Co-owned station KJWP is licensed to Wilmington, Delaware, and is operating with a "K" call-sign. In fact, that station was formerly licensed as KJWY while it operated in Wyoming, and upon the completion of it's move into Delaware and its launch, the call-sign was changed to KJWP to reflect the Philadelphia market in which it now operates. Therefore, FCC regulations apparently don't mandate the dropping of a "K" call-sign under these circumstances.
> 
> Furthermore, call-sign "WJLP" in no way reflects the anticipated programming upon this station, it's COL, or it's market. Even the Bridgeport, CT. station changed its long held WSAH call-sign (which stood for "Shop At Home" network) to WZME, in order to reflect it's new Me-TV affiliation. And the owners did this despite the possibility that the TV station may soon become collateral damage in terms of a spectrum auction.
> 
> I realize that in this day in age, call-signs, both in radio and television, are usually treated as legal formalities which get buried in heavy imaging or a shorter-than-ten-seconds screenshot. I also realize that most people will be calling this channel, "Me TV" and not by it's legal call-sign. But if the information this station manager provided was correct, it certainly imparts a stark contradiction to what recently occurred in the Philadelphia market, and I would like to know more about it.
> 
> Would you care to share this station manager's name?


TVguide.com is now showing full listings for 3.1 WLJPHD. Did a scan, not picking anything up yet. According to the station manager, still have a few weeks before they go live.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Aero 1 said:


> TVguide.com is now showing full listings for 3.1 WLJPHD. Did a scan, not picking anything up yet. According to the station manager, still have a few weeks before they go live.


Oh well. It wouldn't surprise me if they ultimately do go with WJLP... even though, according to the FCC, that call-sign is presently not available and is assigned to The U. S. Coast Guard. 

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/callsign/mainch.pl (There is no direct link available for the query result. You have to enter "WJLP" into the field and click "Submit")

What good is being unique these days anyway? Run with the herd...


----------



## veedon

JLP

Jalapeño? Jalopy? Jersey City --- Lyndhurst --- Passaic ?


----------



## AloEuro

Friday because of the huricane the OTA airwaves on 41-1 1080i gave pixelation, loss of signal during the game, however, switch it to 68-2 the same feed from Brasil with 480i input gave perfect, uninterupted video and audio signal,


----------



## Aero 1

Aero 1 said:


> *Two New Broadcast Networks, Escape & Grit, to Launch This Summer*
> 
> http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...rks-escape-grit-to-launch-this-summer/250840/
> 
> 
> They will be added as sub channels on WXTV Univision 41. Trip has them listed on his site as Channel 40.3 for Escape and 40.4 for Grit.
> 
> 
> http://www.escapetv.com/
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.grittv.com/




The Escape and Grit TV websites have been updated nicely with August as being the launch month. The sites are built nicely with a modern web feel.

http://www.escapetv.com/
http://www.grittv.com/


----------



## Greg2600

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2014/06/raycom_media_agrees_to_carry_n.php

Interesting. The COO of BounceTV, Jonathan Katz, is the one behind them. Escape is "for women," while Grit is "for men." In addition to Univision, Raycom Media will transmit the networks.


----------



## mod50ack

Greg2600 said:


> http://www.tvweek.com/news/2014/06/raycom_media_agrees_to_carry_n.php
> 
> Interesting. The COO of BounceTV, Jonathan Katz, is the one behind them. Escape is "for women," while Grit is "for men." In addition to Univision, Raycom Media will transmit the networks.


I wonder if they will be in 16:9 and/or HD.


----------



## mod50ack

Also, anybody know what channel 36 is? I pickup 36-5, too weak for picture or even PSIP id.


----------



## Trip in VA

It's WNJU. It used to be SOI on 47-3, but it's running now without PSIP or video or anything.

- Trip


----------



## AloEuro

mod50ack said:


> Also, anybody know what channel 36 is? I pickup 36-5, too weak for picture or even PSIP id.


 36-5 Delete, Edit out, Erase, Hide etc.


----------



## unsmiley

Still having Channel 13 problems. When I first tune to 13-1, all is good. But if I go to another channel and try to return to 13-1, I am getting V-me (13-2 or 13-3, I don't remember). This is annoying. Is it a problem with my digital converter or with the broadcast?


----------



## dturturro

unsmiley said:


> Still having Channel 13 problems. When I first tune to 13-1, all is good. But if I go to another channel and try to return to 13-1, I am getting V-me (13-2 or 13-3, I don't remember). This is annoying. Is it a problem with my digital converter or with the broadcast?


No issues with 13-1 to report here...


----------



## nyctveng

unsmiley said:


> Still having Channel 13 problems. When I first tune to 13-1, all is good. But if I go to another channel and try to return to 13-1, I am getting V-me (13-2 or 13-3, I don't remember). This is annoying. Is it a problem with my digital converter or with the broadcast?


As I mentioned in an earlier post WNET reconfigured their PIDs several weeks ago which may cause this issue. Delete and rescan should fix it.


----------



## Aero 1

anyone else having problems with NBC? its been cutting in and out for the past hour. thanks.


----------



## n2ubp

Aero 1 said:


> anyone else having problems with NBC? its been cutting in and out for the past hour. thanks.


Yes.. same here as well as the NBC HD broadcast on DirecTV. The SD broadcast on DTV was working.


----------



## Aero 1

n2ubp said:


> Yes.. same here as well as the NBC HD broadcast on DirecTV. The SD broadcast on DTV was working.


i was watching the signal strength and it fluctuated a lot. it would drop to 0 then up to 90's but it seems to corrected itself.


----------



## 2VW

Aero 1 said:


> i was watching the signal strength and it fluctuated a lot. it would drop to 0 then up to 90's but it seems to corrected itself.


The WNBC transmitter was off the air from Empire between 17:40 to 18:40 on the 17th. If you were receiving anything at that time it was from the backup transmitter located in West Orange, N.J.


----------



## Aero 1

2VW said:


> The WNBC transmitter was off the air from Empire between 17:40 to 18:40 on the 17th. If you were receiving anything at that time it was from the backup transmitter located in West Orange, N.J.


Would you or anyone know what happened to WNYE 25? Signal dropped drastically, barely coming in now.


----------



## 2VW

Aero 1 said:


> Would you or anyone know what happened to WNYE 25? Signal dropped drastically, barely coming in now.


Not sure but one cause could be the really strong tropospheric ducting event which is taking place right now (11:00 local).

I'm near Toms River NJ and watching WVIT, WUNI and others all too far away to be seen here normally. There could be another station on same frequency or close to WNYE taking your receiver out.


----------



## Aero 1

2VW said:


> Not sure but one cause could be the really strong tropospheric ducting event which is taking place right now (11:00 local).
> 
> I'm near Toms River NJ and watching WVIT, WUNI and others all too far away to be seen here normally. There could be another station on same frequency or close to WNYE taking your receiver out.


that must be it, thanks. its not coming in on my tivo's but its coming in on my TV's tuner and on the internal tuner of the slingbox pro-hd.


----------



## reddice

2VW said:


> The WNBC transmitter was off the air from Empire between 17:40 (5:40pm) to 18:40 (6:40pm) on the 17th. If you were receiving anything at that time it was from the backup transmitter located in West Orange, N.J.


I thought they had a backup transmitter on 4 Times Square.


----------



## SnellKrell

reddice said:


> I thought they had a backup transmitter on 4 Times Square.


No!

That's WABC.


----------



## AloEuro

unsmiley said:


> Still having Channel 13 problems. When I first tune to 13-1, all is good. But if I go to another channel and try to return to 13-1, I am getting V-me (13-2 or 13-3, I don't remember). This is annoying. Is it a problem with my digital converter or with the broadcast?


 Few months ago, I had the same problems you are talking about I have also written here about it, I did blame wrongfully the Bravia TV, and I have solved the problem by act of Hiding 13-2 and 13-3 and keep open only 13-1, otherwise I would have the same problem you have.

at 13-3 you can not go up nor down, you are stuck, then shutt off the TV and disconnect Antenna, turn the TV on without Antena, punch in different ch.,connect Antenna and delete 13-3 or 24- 3 which ever caused the same problem which is beyond your control


----------



## Aero 1

Aero 1 said:


> Would you or anyone know what happened to WNYE 25? Signal dropped drastically, barely coming in now.





2VW said:


> Not sure but one cause could be the really strong tropospheric ducting event which is taking place right now (11:00 local).
> 
> I'm near Toms River NJ and watching WVIT, WUNI and others all too far away to be seen here normally. There could be another station on same frequency or close to WNYE taking your receiver out.





Aero 1 said:


> that must be it, thanks. its not coming in on my tivo's but its coming in on my TV's tuner and on the internal tuner of the slingbox pro-hd.


Still having issues with WNYE, anyone else? very weird that its not coming in on my tivos because it shows no strength but the signal is locked. I get the channels just fine on the internal TV tuners but it also shows a lock with no strength. anyone else seeing this behavior? thanks.


----------



## Aero 1

Aero 1 said:


> Still having issues with WNYE, anyone else? very weird that its not coming in on my tivos because it shows no strength but the signal is locked. I get the channels just fine on the internal TV tuners but it also shows a lock with no strength. anyone else seeing this behavior? thanks.


well, i found an email address for "technical operations" at the station and sent them a note about the issues i am having and got the following response from the press secretary of the station:



> Thank you for reaching out to us. We apologize for the inconvenience. We are currently undergoing technical upgrades, and some viewers have been affected during this time. We expect the upgrades to be concluded in the near future, at which time the signal should return. We appreciate your patience.


Good to hear that they are upgrading their stuff.


----------



## NYC10033

Aero 1 said:


> Would you or anyone know what happened to WNYE 25? Signal dropped drastically, barely coming in now.


I have the same problem here. 25.x used to blast in, now signal is too low to receive with my indoor antenna - and I've moved it around, but no improvement. Hopefully it will come back.

I lost 11.x several months ago. Used to get it OK, now low signal strength.


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## LenL

I like to watch WYNE 25 and enjoy some of its cultural, history, cooking and nature related programming but alas like some of you the signal out here in Morris county is very poor right now. It used to be a decent signal. I hope it is just temporary too.


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## uhfyagi

Would you or anyone know what happened to WNYE 25? Signal dropped drastically, barely coming in now.

this is actually great news, what it says to me that knvn aka metv is getting ready to be fired up at 4 times square next week.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> Would you or anyone know what happened to WNYE 25? Signal dropped drastically, barely coming in now.
> 
> this is actually great news, what it says to me that knvn aka metv is getting ready to be fired up at 4 times square next week.


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/275729-new-york-ny-ota-575.html#post25983218


----------



## uhfyagi

theyre tweaking the antenna array at 4 times square, metv will be here next monday on ch3 btw you don't need a low vhf antenna if youre within 10 miles of nyc. I receive wkob ch2 just fine with uhf yagi. knvn signal is going to be signifcantly stronger than knvn.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> Would you or anyone know what happened to WNYE 25? Signal dropped drastically, barely coming in now.
> 
> this is actually great news, what it says to me that knvn aka metv is getting ready to be fired up at 4 times square next week.


The technicians at WNYE-TV stated that they (the station) were undergoing technical upgrades. How would that have anything to do with KVNV? Presumably, WNYE-TV is working on their own equipment either to improve PQ, offer more programming or other services, or maintaining the transmission plant.

Unlike most of the other major New York City TV stations, WNYE-TV does not have an auxiliary facility. When a station works on their transmitter, the engineers likely have to reduce power or cut it altogether. Usually a station switches to the auxiliary facility when this happens. But when a station does not have that option, as is the case for WNYE-TV, reduced power is the best option for both the station and its viewers.



uhfyagi said:


> theyre tweaking the antenna array at 4 times square, metv will be here next monday on ch3 btw you don't need a low vhf antenna if youre within 10 miles of nyc. I receive wkob ch2 just fine with uhf yagi. knvn signal is going to be signifcantly stronger than knvn.


I don't know whether KVNV will be on the air here next Monday. But I do know that being located within ten miles of New York City does not automatically give OTA viewers a free pass to receive Lo-VHF stations without the need for an antenna with Lo-VHF elements. My location is within ten miles of NYC, and without a large antenna with Lo-VHF elements, WKOB-LD is merely an undecodable blip of a signal on a good day. I'm sure there are some exceptions, as there usually are when it comes to reception. Probably the one person who wouldn't care to watch anything on WKOB-LD and may not even know that OTA television is still on the air or even that it exists is the one person who could pull the station in with a rusted coat hanger dangling off the RF-input of the television set. Or a UHF Yagi. But I would still guess that exception is exceedingly atypical.

KVNV, or whatever call-sign they will be using (I have some interesting theories on this I am not yet prepared to share, but will do so later), will probably be easier to receive given that it will deliver a nearly 7 Kw signal from Manhattan and will enjoy the coveted interference protections that all full-power signals are afforded. Perhaps the lengthy Lo-VHF elements will not be a requirement for some viewers, and I certainly hope that proves to be true.

I believe the OTA signal will prove very beneficial for viewers. If the Middletown Township station will be operated comparably to the Wilmington station presently on the air, OTA viewers will be in for a treat. It is true that certain dayparts of Me-TV on KJWP are preempted for E/I, infomercials, and public affairs programming. But the same isn't the case for the .2


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> The technicians at WNYE-TV stated that they (the station) were undergoing technical upgrades. How would that have anything to do with KVNV? Presumably, WNYE-TV is working on their own equipment either to improve PQ, offer more programming or other services, or maintaining the transmission plant.


Generally, if a new antenna is being installed on a tower, the other stations on that tower have to reduce power to protect the workers on the tower. That would certainly explain a weakened signal from WNYE. I can see on my graphs that WNYE took a nosedive on the 16th or 17th. http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNYE-TV

I'm not sure what equipment they could be upgrading that would require a week of reduced power without an FCC permit for upgrades, unless they're repairing something that is damaged like a power combiner or actually swapping out their own antenna, which would require being off the air entirely in most cases.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

*Great Info!*

Giacomo and Trip,


Thanks for the information which is very helpful in explaining what might be going on now with OTA reception and the possible future addition of more OTA entertainment for those of us who use antennas in the metro NY City area!


----------



## foxycat

Aero 1 said:


> Still having issues with WNYE, anyone else? very weird that its not coming in on my tivos because it shows no strength but the signal is locked. I get the channels just fine on the internal TV tuners but it also shows a lock with no strength. anyone else seeing this behavior? thanks.


Boy, am I in the right place! That's why I got on. I'm on OTA in Yonkers, Westchester County, NY. Until 2 days ago I was getting 25-1 and 25-2, WNYE. So I rescanned my channels just now, and instead I got ch 24. At least i know now it's not my TV, but I sure miss "Democracy Now," a staple in my household.

Should I be expecting the new KVNV soon? What kind of programming do they have, and on what channel?


----------



## foxycat

Sorry, duplicate post.


----------



## reddice

Dish Network has WNYE in HD for while. They have all the locals in HD except WLIW but I know it will come soon.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*The New Call-Sign for Channel 3 at Middletown Township*

Following up on my post of July 25, 2014, I indicated then that I have some "interesting theories" regarding the ultimate call-sign for Channel 3 at Middletown Township following its eventual launch. I am now prepared to share them.

The consensus now is that KVNV will not be that ultimate call-sign. This is likely true. The "NV" stands for the stations' home-state of Nevada. And like sister station KJWP, whose call-sign was KJWY while in that stations' home-state (the "WY" standing for Wyoming), a call-sign change is highly likely.

There have been at least two reports of two separate e-mails from PMCM TV personnel (one of which was reported on this forum), each claiming the new call-sign will be WJLP. Despite the seeming authentication of a reliable source, I am going out on a long limb tonight to say that WJLP will NOT be the stations' new call-sign.

The new call-sign for Channel 3 at Middletown Township following its eventual launch will be....



*KJLP*

​Here now I present what I maintain to be airtight evidence to substantiate this prognostication:

*Exhibit A:* As has already been established, call-sign WJLP is presently assigned to the U.S. Coast Guard, and the FCC's call-sign reservation system declares it "Not Available". 47 CFR 73.3550(k) specifies: "Four-letter combinations commencing with “W” or “K” which are assigned as call signs to ships or to other radio services are not available for assignment to broadcast stations, with or without the “-FM” or “-TV” suffix.";

*Exhibit B:* According to PMCM's main website for it's television stations, http://pmcmtv.com/, the Middletown Township channel 3 operation is referred to by two call-signs: The current KVNV and KJLP;

*Exhibit C:* PMCM's website for KJWP Wilmington is http://kjwp2.com/. Applying that URL combination to the three possible call-signs for Channel 3, which are KVNV, KJLP, and WJLP, attempts to access each website reveals that http://kvnv3.com/ redirects to http://pmcmtv.com/, http://kjlp3.com/ loads up a blank white page, and http://wjlp3.com/ is presently unregistered;

*Exhibit D:* When examining the domain records for these five websites, the following records of ownership are revealed: http://kjwp2.com/ was created on 2014-04-17, expires on 2019-04-17, and the site is hosted by GoDaddy.com. http://kvnv3.com/ was created on 2014-04-17, expires on 2019-04-17, and the site is hosted by GoDaddy.com. http://kjlp3.com/ was created on 2014-04-17, expires on 2019-04-17, and the site is hosted by GoDaddy.com. http://pmcmtv.com/ was created by Robert McAllen on 2013-11-21, expires on 2015-11-21, and the site is hosted by GoDaddy.com. And http://wjlp3.com/ has never before been registered and is available;

*Exhibit E:* A further investigation of domain records reveals that website http://kjlptv.com/ was created by Robert McAllen on 2013-11-21, expires on 2018-11-21, and the site is hosted by GoDaddy.com. And just like http://kjlp3.com/, http://kjlptv.com/ loads up a blank white page. Conversely, http://wjlptv.com/ has never before been registered and is available; and,

*Exhibit F:* The call-sign KJLP is presently only in use by an FM radio station licensed to Palmer, Arkansas. FCC rules presently allow for the same call-sign to be used by multiple licensees, provided of course that each licensee operates their station on a different service.

This overwhelming evidence, in conjunction with the fact that the Wilmington station retained a "K" call-sign following it's move to a location east of the Mississippi, substantiates that the most likely call-sign that PMCM TV will request for Channel 3 at Middletown Township is KJLP.


----------



## dstoffa

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> The new call-sign for Channel 3 at Middletown Township following its eventual launch will be....
> 
> 
> 
> *KJLP*
> 
> ​


So when are they gonna throw the switch?

I rescanned this morning. Nada.


Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## Greg2600

Someone mentioned channel 13 issues, did they change anything at the source lately? I know it's a weaker frequency, but I have been able to tune it in, in months.


----------



## mod50ack

Greg2600 said:


> Someone mentioned channel 13 issues, did they change anything at the source lately? I know it's a weaker frequency, but I have been able to tune it in, in months.


I was under the impression that it had not changed power, but the only changes were in PSIP IDs. What I would recommend doing is unplugging your antenna, rescanning, replugging, and rescanning.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Following up on my post of July 25, 2014, I indicated then that I have some "interesting theories" regarding the ultimate call-sign for Channel 3 at Middletown Township ...
> 
> The consensus now is that KVNV will not be that ultimate call-sign. This is likely true. ... I am going out on a long limb tonight to say that WJLP will NOT be the stations' new call-sign.
> 
> The new call-sign for Channel 3 at Middletown Township following its eventual launch will be....
> 
> 
> 
> *KJLP*
> 
> ​Here now I present what I maintain to be airtight evidence to substantiate this prognostication:
> 
> *...*
> 
> *Exhibit F:* The call-sign KJLP is presently only in use by an FM radio station licensed to Palmer, Arkansas. FCC rules presently allow for the same call-sign to be used by multiple licensees, provided of course that each licensee operates their station on a different service.


Alaska, not Arkansas, but that's a minor quibble. The bigger question is whether the renamed KVNV will be allowed to keep channel 3 as its virtual channel number even though a portion of KVNV's coverage area overlaps the coverage area of WFSB (RF 33, virtual channel 3) in Connecticut. WFSB has some sort of special status that allows part of what would be KVNV's area to be considered part of WFSB's market area. I'm not sure how the regulations work.

It would be great if KVNV could revive interest in OTA reception, even on VHF-Lo, but getting a good channel position on the cable systems must be even more important to the station's prospects.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Veedon,


veedon said:


> Alaska, not Arkansas, but that's a minor quibble.


Thank you for pointing this out. Perhaps it is minor to you, but for current and prior residents of either U.S. state, or other people who have a connection to Alaska and Arkansas, such an error may resound more significantly. Accordingly, I promptly acknowledge this error and extend my apologies.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> The bigger question is whether the renamed KVNV will be allowed to keep channel 3 as its virtual channel number even though a portion of KVNV's coverage area overlaps the coverage area of WFSB (RF 33, virtual channel 3) in Connecticut. WFSB has some sort of special status that allows part of what would be KVNV's area to be considered part of WFSB's market area. I'm not sure how the regulations work.
> 
> It would be great if KVNV could revive interest in OTA reception, even on VHF-Lo, but getting a good channel position on the cable systems must be even more important to the station's prospects.


This is a VERY significant issue. First, this may ultimately delay the sign-on of KVNV. Second, the ramifications of not being permitted to identify as channel 3 would likely be devastating to PMCM TV because their station's value, inclusive of its monetary value, could be significantly and irreparably harmed. Also, the decision rendered by the FCC could be precedent setting, and I sense that any decision will be appealed by the losing party. 

The antagonist here is Meredith Corporation, based in Des Moines, Iowa, and licensee of WFSB Hartford, channel 33, in the state of Connecticut.

According to documents filed with the FCC, here is what happened: Meredith filed an informal objection to the modification application objecting to PMCM’s future operations on virtual channel 3 because WFSB(TV) had been assigned that channel since 2004. Meredith argued that because the two stations’ noise limited contours have significant overlap, both stations cannot operate on the same virtual channel. Meredith further argued that, under the PSIP Standard adopted by the Commission, KVNV(TV) should be assigned virtual channel 33, which is WFSB(TV)’s RF channel. On April 17, 2014, the Video Division granted PMCM’s application and dismissed Meredith’s informal objection as premature, stating that a station’s virtual channel designation is customarily considered after grant of the license modification application in a separate proceeding that solely addresses the virtual channel designation. Meredith filed a timely Petition for Reconsideration and Request for Declaratory Ruling on May 22, 2014, again asserting that KVNV(TV) should be assigned virtual channel 33, which PMCM opposes. Briefing on this matter closed on July 11, 2014, and a decision has not yet been issued.

The areas major cable operators (Cablevision, Comcast, and Time Warner) took notice of this dispute, then they followed suit by requesting the FCC to grant a waiver of Section 76.64(f)(4) which specifically allows the MVPD’s to defer carriage of KVNV until 90 days from the date there is a final decision on the station’s virtual channel. The FCC has granted this waiver.

Presently, the matter is before the FCC which will have to decide whether PMCM TV can legally identify their channel number as channel 3. The decision will affect both the station's on-air signal and MVPD carriage position. Therefore, the station and its potential viewers will likely be held hostage, so to speak, until this matter is resolved.

Meredith's arguments stem, in part, from the fact that their WFSB operates in the Hartford-New Haven DMA. An FCC market modification, however, added Fairfield County, Connecticut into that local market, and Fairfield County is in the New York DMA.

What Meredith conveniently omits from any of their filings is that their channel 33 signal provides no reliable coverage in KVNV's COL of Middletown Township, NJ., and anywhere else in New Jersey for that matter. They also ignore the fact that WFSB is not carried on most, if any, MVPD systems in New Jersey and New York City.

The disputed territory in this matter should be isolated to only those specific areas in which WFSB's signal provides reliable coverage and/or is carried over channel 3 on that area's MVPD systems. This would essentially reduce the disputed areas to those in and around southern Connecticut, and perhaps isolated portions of Long Island, New York.

Instead, Meredith insists on strong-arm tactics and exerting its will upon a television station and its audience, most, if not, all of whom are not connected in any way to WFSB nor have access to its programming.

And despite established FCC policy, there is this. Meredith essentially gave up their rights to channel 3 when they elected to remain on pre-transition RF channel 33. Conversely, PMCM TV is entering the market on RF channel 3 and intends to accurately represent as a channel 3 operation. PMCM TV has also presented solid arguments in support of their position, specifically "that 'given the unique circumstances of KVNV’s transition to New Jersey' it would thwart the Court’s mandate to change its PSIP channel", and, "that its right to mandatory carriage of KVNV(TV) on channel 3 'is so well settled as to require no elaboration here.'"

To reiterate, by taking up this issue, the FCC has essentially taken a punitive stance against PMCM TV and the entire New York DMA. The decision is both excessive, overbearing, and unfair. This matter should be isolated only to those areas where there is truly a conflict. In those isolated instances, surely a compromise could be reached and perhaps PMCM TV could accept a few southern Connecticut MVPDs assigning their station an alternate channel, and Meredith would be unharmed in any way. Meredith's self-serving proposal would pose significant harm to PMCM TV, and must ultimately be rejected as expeditiously as possible in no uncertain terms of a rulemaking.


----------



## mod50ack

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> This is a VERY significant issue. First, this may ultimately delay the sign-on of KVNV. Second, the ramifications of not being permitted to identify as channel 3 would likely be devastating to PMCM TV because their station's value, inclusive of its monetary value, could be significantly and irreparably harmed. Also, the decision rendered by the FCC could be precedent setting, and I sense that any decision will be appealed by the losing party.
> 
> The antagonist here is Meredith Corporation, based in Des Moines, Iowa, and licensee of WFSB Hartford, channel 33, in the state of Connecticut.
> 
> According to documents filed with the FCC, here is what happened: Meredith filed an informal objection to the modification application objecting to PMCM’s future operations on virtual channel 3 because WFSB(TV) had been assigned that channel since 2004. Meredith argued that because the two stations’ noise limited contours have significant overlap, both stations cannot operate on the same virtual channel. Meredith further argued that, under the PSIP Standard adopted by the Commission, KVNV(TV) should be assigned virtual channel 33, which is WFSB(TV)’s RF channel. On April 17, 2014, the Video Division granted PMCM’s application and dismissed Meredith’s informal objection as premature, stating that a station’s virtual channel designation is customarily considered after grant of the license modification application in a separate proceeding that solely addresses the virtual channel designation. Meredith filed a timely Petition for Reconsideration and Request for Declaratory Ruling on May 22, 2014, again asserting that KVNV(TV) should be assigned virtual channel 33, which PMCM opposes. Briefing on this matter closed on July 11, 2014, and a decision has not yet been issued.
> 
> The areas major cable operators (Cablevision, Comcast, and Time Warner) took notice of this dispute, then they followed suit by requesting the FCC to grant a waiver of Section 76.64(f)(4) which specifically allows the MVPD’s to defer carriage of KVNV until 90 days from the date there is a final decision on the station’s virtual channel. The FCC has granted this waiver.
> 
> Presently, the matter is before the FCC which will have to decide whether PMCM TV can legally identify their channel number as channel 3. The decision will affect both the station's on-air signal and MVPD carriage position. Therefore, the station and its potential viewers will likely be held hostage, so to speak, until this matter is resolved.
> 
> Meredith's arguments stem, in part, from the fact that their WFSB operates in the Hartford-New Haven DMA. An FCC market modification, however, added Fairfield County, Connecticut into that local market, and Fairfield County is in the New York DMA.
> 
> What Meredith conveniently omits from any of their filings is that their channel 33 signal provides no reliable coverage in KVNV's COL of Middletown Township, NJ., and anywhere else in New Jersey for that matter. They also ignore the fact that WFSB is not carried on most, if any, MVPD systems in New Jersey and New York City.
> 
> The disputed territory in this matter should be isolated to only those specific areas in which WFSB's signal provides reliable coverage and/or is carried over channel 3 on that area's MVPD systems. This would essentially reduce the disputed areas to those in and around southern Connecticut, and perhaps isolated portions of Long Island, New York.
> 
> Instead, Meredith insists on strong-arm tactics and exerting its will upon a television station and its audience, most, if not, all of whom are not connected in any way to WFSB nor have access to its programming.
> 
> And despite established FCC policy, there is this. Meredith essentially gave up their rights to channel 3 when they elected to remain on pre-transition RF channel 33. Conversely, PMCM TV is entering the market on RF channel 3 and intends to accurately represent as a channel 3 operation. PMCM TV has also presented solid arguments in support of their position, specifically "that 'given the unique circumstances of KVNV’s transition to New Jersey' it would thwart the Court’s mandate to change its PSIP channel", and, "that its right to mandatory carriage of KVNV(TV) on channel 3 'is so well settled as to require no elaboration here.'"
> 
> To reiterate, by taking up this issue, the FCC has essentially taken a punitive stance against PMCM TV and the entire New York DMA. The decision is both excessive, overbearing, and unfair. This matter should be isolated only to those areas where there is truly a conflict. In those isolated instances, surely a compromise could be reached and perhaps PMCM TV could accept a few southern Connecticut MVPDs assigning their station an alternate channel, and Meredith would be unharmed in any way. Meredith's self-serving proposal would pose significant harm to PMCM TV, and must ultimately be rejected as expeditiously as possible in no uncertain terms of a rulemaking.


I am from northern Long Island. No connecticut signal, including WFSB, has ever been caught by me. It is out of the DMA of me, New Jersey, and New York. The only ones that I have heard were caught were WFSB8 in the analog days.

Edit: WTNH, and this was over 30 years ago.


----------



## dstoffa

veedon said:


> Alaska, not Arkansas, but that's a minor quibble. The bigger question is whether the renamed KVNV will be allowed to keep channel 3 as its virtual channel number even though a portion of KVNV's coverage area overlaps the coverage area of WFSB (RF 33, virtual channel 3) in Connecticut. WFSB has some sort of special status that allows part of what would be KVNV's area to be considered part of WFSB's market area. I'm not sure how the regulations work.


I don't think regulations work, if any exist.

I have problems with one of my DTA's (a CM7000) handling stations that broadcast the same virtual channel info.

In southwwest Nassau County, I can receive both WZME (RF42, 43.1)
I can also receive WNYX-LD (RF43, 43.1)

When my CM7000 does a scan, it finds both stations, but it keeps the last channel info it finds, and overwrites WZME with WNYX-LD.

My other DTA allows me to search channels individually.


----------



## mod50ack

Not to mention that WCBS-TV uses the same *physical* channel (not virtual) and seems to be doing just fine!


----------



## hancox

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Meredith's arguments stem, in part, from the fact that their WFSB operates in the Hartford-New Haven DMA. An FCC market modification, however, added Fairfield County, Connecticut into that local market, and Fairfield County is in the New York DMA.


How have i never heard of this? What does this mean, exactly?

Also, given the fact (also alluded to elsewhere) that the FCC was stupid enough to grant adjoining markets CBS affiliates the same phyical channel, my hope is not high that a suitable resolution will come out of this!


----------



## nyctveng

mod50ack said:


> Not to mention that WCBS-TV uses the same *physical* channel (not virtual) and seems to be doing just fine!


WFSB is mostly concerned with losing the Ch.3 slot on cable systems such as Cablevision that carry both NY & CT stations. There's a good chance they would lose Ch.3 slot at least in Fairfield Cty systems.


----------



## uhfyagi

update on metv. I spoke to someone at 4 times square. this afternoon they said that wplj would be debuting by friday.


----------



## veedon

Although I'm not from New York, I find KVNV's situation very interesting because it will be a test of the viability of broadcasting on VHF-Lo in a major metropolitan area, and it will also be fascinating to see how advertisers react to a station in a major market having Me-TV as the primary affiliation. Will MeTV on KVNV be able to attract more and better advertisers than MeTV on WZME did? 

The whole business of broadcasting on an RF channel that differs from the channel number that the stations have historically used for branding and marketing purposes raises issues. I can certainly see why a station would want to be able to use the channel number that it has always used to attract advertisers. I mean, could you imagine WGN in Chicago not being Channel 9 or your own WPIX not being Channel 11? 

So, I do think that WFSB has a legitimate reason for wanting to be known as Channel 3 in the places where it has a history of being known as that. But that should not stop KVNV from being Channel 3 in other places. That would be easy enough to do on cable systems. (Just have WFSB take the Channel 3 slot on the Connecticut cable systems, but let the new KVNV have the channel 3 slot on the cable systems outside Connecticut.

But how do you handle things OTA. If somebody is viewing the channels OTA in that part of Connecticut where both stations' signals can be received, then the tuner is going to receive the same PSIP info for the new KVNV as a person watching OTA in New Jersey would receive. Now, if there were a translator in Connecticut that could broadcast a special KVNV signal with PSIP info for just the Connecticut area, that could solve the problem, but that would be an expense that KVNV would not want to bear. 

I wonder whether KVNV could agree to be on a subchannel of WFSB in Connecticut and adjust its main transmitter so that the KVNV signal from Times Square would not reach into Connecticut. That would require a business agreement between the two stations, and it would deprive KVNV of being a -1 channel in Connecticut.


----------



## seamus21514

uhfyagi said:


> update on metv. I spoke to someone at 4 times square. this afternoon they said that wplj would be debuting by friday.



WPLJ are the call letters? I highly doubt that?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> update on metv. I spoke to someone at 4 times square. this afternoon they said that wplj would be debuting by friday.


There are many someones at 4 Times Square on a Wednesday afternoon. You need to be a little more specific reporting that here in order for interested parties to determine if this particular someone would have unique knowledge of the situation in order to make that statement.

WJLP does sound like WPLJ, doesn't it? 


seamus21514 said:


> WPLJ are the call letters? I highly doubt that?


WPLJ is the call-sign of a highly billing but typical female-oriented mainstream Adult Contemporary FM station in New York City. Perhaps the management at PMCM TV thinks that if they can subliminally create a tie-in with this low-rated but high-billing radio station, they will somehow benefit by adding viewers from that highly-targeted audience. This is the only reason I can fathom as to why the station's future call-sign has been reported by Lee Leddy as WJLP.

I am still confident that KJLP will be the ultimate legal call-sign. In fact, earlier today, an associate of mine confirmed to me that the FCC has not received any request to reassign the WJLP call-sign. Of course, as long as a TV station identifies their legal call-sign once per hour, they can call themselves whatever they want during the remaining 59 minutes and 50 seconds of the rest of the hour.


----------



## foxycat

veedon said:


> So, I do think that WFSB has a legitimate reason for wanting to be known as Channel 3 in the places where it has a history of being known as that.


 Should I expect that new station anytime soon?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

mod50ack said:


> I am from northern Long Island. No connecticut signal, including WFSB, has ever been caught by me. It is out of the DMA of me, New Jersey, and New York. The only ones that I have heard were caught were WFSB8 in the analog days.


Given Long Island's geographic location in relation to the Atlantic Ocean, that is a little surprising. RF signals often travel better (and farther) over water. Nevertheless, I do not doubt your reception report.

In this significantly more landlocked area here in Bergen County, NJ., I can also report the absence of any reliable Connecticut television stations. However, there are several very reliable, though not particularly strong, Connecticut radio stations.



dstoffa said:


> I don't think regulations work, if any exist.
> 
> I have problems with one of my DTA's (a CM7000) handling stations that broadcast the same virtual channel info.
> 
> In southwwest Nassau County, I can receive both WZME (RF42, 43.1)
> I can also receive WNYX-LD (RF43, 43.1)
> 
> When my CM7000 does a scan, it finds both stations, but it keeps the last channel info it finds, and overwrites WZME with WNYX-LD.
> 
> My other DTA allows me to search channels individually.


Many years ago, when plans to transition from Analog to Digital Television were first being discussed, the FCC should have insisted on a standard that would have required all ATSC/QAM tuners built into all DTA converters and television receivers sold here in the United States to provide for the ability to manually enter and/or tune the RF channel. Along those lines, another standard should have been insisted upon that would require any television station broadcasting a digital signal to identify their RF channel either concurrently or within their legal ID.

I do not know whether the NAB ever advocated for such standards, but if they didn't, that decision was lamentable. Who knows how many OTA viewers are presently being deprived of some television stations whose signals didn't happen to be strong enough to be added in their receiver's last scan?

It is perplexing when the FCC, whose role is to regulate broadcast stations, seems to base most of their decisions on what they apparently believe will soon be a country in which everyone subscribes to cable television and has a cable company issued converter.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> ...
> 
> Many years ago, when plans to transition from Analog to Digital Television were first being discussed, the FCC should have insisted on a standard that would have required all ATSC/QAM tuners built into all DTA converters and television receivers sold here in the United States to provide for the ability to manually enter and/or tune the RF channel. Along those lines, another standard should have been insisted upon that would require any television station broadcasting a digital signal to identify their RF channel either concurrently or within their legal ID.
> 
> ...


I agree with you about manual tuning, but I think including the RF channel number in the station identification announcements would confuse a lot of viewers. Hey, maybe the station id announcement could give the megahertz frequency, just like for radio stations.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> I agree with you about manual tuning, but I think including the RF channel number in the station identification announcements would confuse a lot of viewers. Hey, maybe the station id announcement could give the megahertz frequency, just like for radio stations.


Veedon, if you think displaying the RF channel number would confuse a lot of viewers, I hasten to think how confused they would be to see two numbers separated by a hyphen  Some people may not even know to associate "megahertz" with broadcasting, and think instead it may have something to do with federal healthcare reform 



veedon said:


> Although I'm not from New York, I find KVNV's situation very interesting because it will be a test of the viability of broadcasting on VHF-Lo in a major metropolitan area, and it will also be fascinating to see how advertisers react to a station in a major market having Me-TV as the primary affiliation. Will MeTV on KVNV be able to attract more and better advertisers than MeTV on WZME did?


The KVNV and KJWY (now KJWP) situations without question represent an historical and highly fascinating broadcasting milestone, given the unique circumstances of their humble beginnings in rural communities, and how a broadcasting company based in New Jersey purchased these two stations in anticipation of creating two new commercial VHF television stations in the New York City and Philadelphia markets by using a 1980s law originally intended to benefit one television station, and which hadn't been used since.

Certainly, the programming offered on Me-TV is more inviting then infomercials or otherwise brokered programming, and thus its programming fare could better test the viability of the VHF-Lo band in a major metropolitan area. The only caveat is the high percentage of pay TV penetration already present in the NYC market. However the matter of the channel number issue is ultimately decided, this station will eventually find a place somewhere on all of the areas pay TV providers. Most of the viewing of this station will probably be via cable/phone/satellite. Now, as I eluded to earlier, if KVNV is operated comparably to KJWP, there are some reasons why viewers will prefer to tune into KVNV via it's OTA signal, and I think once they know why, many of those viewers will attempt to access the OTA signal.

Initially, I would expect most advertising to be PI stuff, with one or two local businesses airing spots or sponsoring local breaks. Depending on what happens with the channel dispute and how PMCM TV markets the station, I expect the local advertising will increase, although not to the level of a traditional network affiliate. Certainly, owning the station outright and not being relegated to a subchannel will help tremendously in terms of marketing and traffic.



veedon said:


> So, I do think that WFSB has a legitimate reason for wanting to be known as Channel 3 in the places where it has a history of being known as that. But that should not stop KVNV from being Channel 3 in other places. That would be easy enough to do on cable systems. (Just have WFSB take the Channel 3 slot on the Connecticut cable systems, but let the new KVNV have the channel 3 slot on the cable systems outside Connecticut.
> 
> But how do you handle things OTA. If somebody is viewing the channels OTA in that part of Connecticut where both stations' signals can be received, then the tuner is going to receive the same PSIP info for the new KVNV as a person watching OTA in New Jersey would receive. Now, if there were a translator in Connecticut that could broadcast a special KVNV signal with PSIP info for just the Connecticut area, that could solve the problem, but that would be an expense that KVNV would not want to bear.
> 
> I wonder whether KVNV could agree to be on a subchannel of WFSB in Connecticut and adjust its main transmitter so that the KVNV signal from Times Square would not reach into Connecticut. That would require a business agreement between the two stations, and it would deprive KVNV of being a -1 channel in Connecticut.


Neither PMCM TV nor Meredith has any interest or intent to facilitate a situation in which KVNV would be carried on a WFSB subchannel. The issue, as Nyctveng correctly pointed out earlier today, is that WFSB is mostly concerned with losing the channel 3 slot on cable systems such as Cablevision that carry both NY & CT stations. Meredith did not like the FCC's initial dismissal of Meredith's informal objection as premature, and thus they escalated the matter requesting a declaratory ruling.

This is a crowded metropolitan area with few open channels, and thus these types of conflicts can be expected. This conflict, however, is quite unique for many reasons and it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Ultimately, the FCC and the broadcaster parties involved may have to concede to the OTA audience's abilities to differentiate between a channel 3-1 broadcasting Me-TV programming and another channel 3-1 broadcasting WFSB, in the event that some viewers find themselves located within areas in which both signals provide reliable service.

Which is why, as I stated earlier and you apparently agree, this dispute should be isolated to only those counties in which WFSB has long occupied the channel 3 dial position on the MVPDs. My hunch is that the territory in dispute essentially only exists in southern Connecticut, with perhaps a sliver portion of Long Island, NY., and thus these are the areas in which a delay of the station's carriage is perhaps warranted. However, a blanket delay, as is in place right now, is overbearing and unwarranted.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


Interesting discussion but I really don't think this whole discussion is worth it. For most of us, a low VHF station will not be meaningful as it will not be seen by our equipment for several reasons.


1. Not enough transmission power for the signal to be seen
2. Many of us have equipment (antennas or filters) that are designed to receive high VHF (7-13) and UHF only.
3. Antenna direction.


So for the few dozen people that will get this station....enjoy.


----------



## mod50ack

LenL said:


> Giacomo,
> 
> 
> Interesting discussion but I really don't think this whole discussion is worth it. For most of us, a low VHF station will not be meaningful as it will not be seen by our equipment for several reasons.
> 
> 
> 1. Not enough transmission power for the signal to be seen
> 2. Many of us have equipment (antennas or filters) that are designed to receive high VHF (7-13) and UHF only.
> 3. Antenna direction.
> 
> 
> So for the few dozen people that will get this station....enjoy.


1. The power is increasing from 1.2kW as KVNV-TV to over 7kW for KJLP-TV. Still not the highest of power, but definitely not an extra-low-power operation. (this may increase more soon)
2. If you are within close range, your antenna will still pick up low-VHF stations. Who filters out Low-VHF?
3. It's looking pretty omnidirectional here... (https://maps.google.com/?q=http://t...tour=28&city=MIDDLETOWN_TOWNSHIP&state=NJ.kml)


----------



## LenL

At one point I had 4 antennas up in operation. A CM4228, a VHF only, a UHF only and a home built Grey Hoverman. In one instance I was using a Blonder Tongue ZHLSJ filter/splitter to separate out low VHF and possible interference with the high VHF at my location.


I suspect that most people don't do this or use this equipment. 


On the other hand many antennas are designed with high band VHF reception in mind.


I will look with interest and amusement no doubt as to whether I can receive this station when it is up and running.


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> Although I'm not from New York, I find KVNV's situation very interesting because it will be a test of the viability of broadcasting on VHF-Lo in a major metropolitan area, and it will also be fascinating to see how advertisers react to a station in a major market having Me-TV as the primary affiliation. Will MeTV on KVNV be able to attract more and better advertisers than MeTV on WZME did?



Trust me they don't expect many OTA viewers. They want and will get cable,directv,and dish carriage and most will be on the coveted ch 3 slot. The OTA signal will net a few thousand viewers if that but more importantly will reach cable headends for which they seek carriage. The big MSOs such as Verizon, Comcast, Cablevision, TWC may opt for a direct fiber feed and use the OTA as a backup. Comcast, Cablevision, TWC do share fiber feeds from local broadcasters. That being said sure MeTV on a uniform ch3 in the entire NYC DMA will reach a hell of a lot more viewers than WZME on cable systems north of NYC on all different channel numbers.


----------



## mod50ack

nyctveng said:


> Trust me they don't expect many OTA viewers. They want and will get cable,directv,and dish carriage and most will be on the coveted ch 3 slot. The OTA signal will net a few thousand viewers if that but more importantly will reach cable headends for which they seek carriage. The big MSOs such as Verizon, Comcast, Cablevision, TWC may opt for a direct fiber feed and use the OTA as a backup. Comcast, Cablevision, TWC do share fiber feeds from local broadcasters. That being said sure MeTV on a uniform ch3 in the entire NYC DMA will reach a hell of a lot more viewers than WZME on cable systems north of NYC on all different channel numbers.


Of course, the big catch is cable. But their antenna broadcast means that New York will finally have somebody airing on TV the syndicated reruns of Star Trek.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Veedon, if you think displaying the RF channel number would confuse a lot of viewers, I hasten to think how confused they would be to see two numbers separated by a hyphen Some people may not even know to associate "megahertz" with broadcasting,


Those people really won't like WNBC's new slogan, "Megahertz? Yeah, We Got 'em: 504 More Than in '44"


----------



## mod50ack

No channel 3 yet for me

update: still not signed on, 9:55am August 1


----------



## reddice

I curious if I can even get channel 3 because I do have a roof antenna that can get Low-VHF , VHF and UHF. Once the channel is up I will do a rescan and let you know.


----------



## dstoffa

reddice said:


> I curious if I can even get channel 3 because I do have a roof antenna that can get Low-VHF , VHF and UHF. Once the channel is up I will do a rescan and let you know.


If you can receive WKOB with your rig, you should have no trouble getting K-whatever (Channel 3) signs on as...

I can receive WKOB in Nassau County...


----------



## mod50ack

dstoffa said:


> If you can receive WKOB with your rig, you should have no trouble getting K-whatever (Channel 3) signs on as...
> 
> I can receive WKOB in Nassau County...


I'm in Nassau also (near the Queens border) and I have never actually caught WKOB. This may be due to me indoor antenna vs an outdoor one. (I have an RCA "paperthin" that is advertised as high-VHF/UHF)

I hope to catch KJLP/KVNV/WJLP/WPLJ/W???/K??? when it comes on air.


----------



## Aero 1

mod50ack said:


> (I have an RCA "paperthin" that is advertised as high-VHF/UHF)
> 
> I hope to catch KJLP/KVNV/WJLP/WPLJ/W???/K??? when it comes on air.


dont count on it. your paper thin antenna cant defy the laws of physics.


----------



## reddice

I can't get WKOB most of the time anyway so I doubt I will be able to get channel 3.


----------



## mod50ack

Aero 1 said:


> dont count on it. your paper thin antenna cant defy the laws of physics.


Well, considering that the tvfool report at my location when I go down to the block level says that KVNV will be the second strongest signal after WNJU, I think I'll be okay....

It actually works a lot better than a rabbit ears+loop combo. It doesn't defy the laws of physics, though.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> update on metv. I spoke to someone at 4 times square. this afternoon they said that wplj would be debuting by friday.


does your contact work on friday nights? i wonder if the delay is due to the storms.


----------



## mod50ack

10:22pm EDT. Channel 3 not on air yet.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

dstoffa said:


> If you can receive WKOB with your rig, you should have no trouble getting K-whatever (Channel 3) signs on as...
> 
> I can receive WKOB in Nassau County...





mod50ack said:


> I'm in Nassau also (near the Queens border) and I have never actually caught WKOB. This may be due to me indoor antenna vs an outdoor one. (I have an RCA "paperthin" that is advertised as high-VHF/UHF)





reddice said:


> I can't get WKOB most of the time anyway so I doubt I will be able to get channel 3.





mod50ack said:


> 1. The power is increasing from 1.2kW as KVNV-TV to over 7kW for KJLP-TV. Still not the highest of power, but definitely not an extra-low-power operation. (this may increase more soon)
> 2. If you are within close range, your antenna will still pick up low-VHF stations. Who filters out Low-VHF?
> 3. It's looking pretty omnidirectional here... (https://maps.google.com/?q=http://t...tour=28&city=MIDDLETOWN_TOWNSHIP&state=NJ.kml)


As mod50ack near correctly points out, Channel 3 at Middletown Township will be transmitting with _almost_ 7,000 watts from 4 Times Square, Manhattan, NY. Conversely, WKOB-LD presently transmits with only 300 watts on channel 2 from 845 United Nations Plaza (a/k/a Trump World Tower) which is situate at the intersection of 1st Ave. & E. 48th St., in Manhattan, NY. This means that once the station signs on, channel 3 will be transmitting a signal that is over 20 times stronger than the current signal on channel 2.

The eventual sign-on of KVNV will change the NYC area television landscape in more ways than one. Landover 5 LLC., the licensee of WKOB-LD, apparently has taken preliminary steps to ensure its continued presence in this market. WKOB-LD has had an open construction permit to move to channel 42 for a few years. The CP specifies a power increase to 1,000 watts and moving the transmitter to 416 Eagle Rock Ave., West Orange, NJ. The former owners of WKOB-LD cited as reasons for the changes the typical VHF-Lo interference issues incurred with digital TV and the necessity for viewers to have lengthy VHF-Lo elements in order to secure reception, particularly at such low wattage.

As recently as July 22, 2014, Landover 5 filed an application to modify the CP requesting in this application to increase the ERP from the planned 1,000 watts to 2,500 watts. This indicates that Landover 5 is planning to move WKOB-LD off channel 2 sooner rather than later in order to avoid any potential interference complaints from PMCM TV, the licensee of KVNV, and they want their new location to produce a much better signal than that which they have now or that which was contemplated by the original CP.

As many of you are aware, KVNV as a full-power TV station enjoys the most interference protection, and despite WKOB-LD having operated on channel 2 for the past 4½ years, a Low-Power TV station cannot present any destructive or harmful interference to a Full-Power TV station. The risk of doing so is exponentially higher in the VHF-Lo band, and especially in this situation in which the protected station is a first-adjacent and sequentially follows the subordinate station.



mod50ack said:


> I hope to catch KJLP/KVNV/WJLP/WPLJ/W???/K??? when it comes on air.


LOL, I bet no one would hope to catch it if the call-sign was KRAB


----------



## mod50ack

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> LOL, I bet no one would hope to catch it if the call-sign was KRAB


There is a KRAB-FM in california.


----------



## Aero 1

https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeG...66852.172234469534203/654019834688995/?type=1



> The saga of Me-TV New York drags on. Channel 3 was set to launch on or around July 31st/August 1st, but this has now been delayed. The new word is a "September" launch, which means they could launch on any one of the 30 days in that month. One thing is clear, WZME 43.1 will continue to carry Me-TV after July 31st. What's not clear is how long this will last. The wait continues...



Cablevision has requested a delay citing customer confusion.. http://www.fcc.gov/document/cablevision-systems-corp-et-al?fontsize

PMCM has responded: https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeG...id=654478891309756&offset=0&total_comments=21



> PMCM filed an opposition to Cablevision’s deferral request, arguing, inter alia, that its right to mandatory carriage of KVNV(TV) on channel 3 “is so well settled as to require no elaboration here.” PMCM further asserts that KVNV(TV) “currently operates on major channel 3 in Ely, NV,“ and that “given the unique circumstances of KVNV’s transition to New Jersey” it would thwart the Court’s mandate to change its PSIP channel. PMCM states, however, that it is “sensitive to the complications posed by the insertion of KVNV’s channel 3 into Cablevision’s channel line-up” and that it would be willing to accommodate a deferral but that it must be brief “since it is essential that KVNV get on the air with full on-channel carriage prior to the key ratings periods coming up in the fall.”



Launch delayed till September: https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeGuyd/posts/656643167759995



> It sure has been an interesting soap opera so far this year for Me-TV in the New York and Philadelphia TV markets. With the drama in Philadelphia settling down (relatively), now it's New York's turn at the wheel of craziness.
> As mentioned prior, channel 3 KVNV/WJLP (or whatever they will be called) has delayed its launch until September. Now apparently current Me-TV "New York" affiliate WZME, from Connecticut, will remain with the network after channel 3 signs on the air. WZME will become the Me-TV affiliate for Connecticut.
> The bigger questions I have are how exactly will this work? Will WZME officially move to the Hartford-New Haven market? Or will they remain in the NYC market? Will they be dropped on NYC market cable/satellite/telco systems to avoid duplication with channel 3? Will WZME expand its reach to the ENTIRE Hartford-New Haven market? Or remain on fringes of it, as it currently is? So many questions and very few answers at the moment. Hopefully more details will become available to give NYC viewers answers to what is ACTUALLY happening (on ALL fronts for Me-TV). Once more, stay tuned...



lastly, maybe they under staffed? http://www.indeed.com/viewjob?cmp=P...xdruZ3H5_PES7KFvU6wzbG1VWpYKuUj68q5vTwD6yVbjA


----------



## nyctveng

hancox said:


> Also, given the fact (also alluded to elsewhere) that the FCC was stupid enough to grant adjoining markets CBS affiliates the same phyical channel, my hope is not high that a suitable resolution will come out of this!


What difference does affiliation make? That can change at anytime although unlikely for the CBS-NY in this particular case.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

The KVNV/KJLP situation isn't really all that complicated. This station would have been on the air by August 1, 2014 had it not been for the dispute raised by the owners of WFSB. That, and nothing else, is the hold-up. Had it been a technical issue, KVNV would have requested an STA or otherwise notified the FCC. I am near confident that all of the build-out has been completed and, short of minor adjustments, the only thing keeping this station off the air now technically is someone turning on the transmitter.

The companion reason why the channel number dispute is stalling the launch has to do with on-air and marketing promotion. Like sister station KJWP is presently doing, KVNV/KJLP will likely build its on-air branding around its Me-TV affiliation and its channel position. Given that this dispute is presently threatening the latter, PMCM TV probably feels they cannot proceed with producing promos and localized programming, nor can they effectively market the station until it is absolutely definite that they can proceed with using channel 3. It would be counter-productive to produce a lot of material, only to have to modify or scrap it in the highly unlikely event that the FCC rules against them and any subsequent appeals are unsuccessful. So they are currently taking a wait-and-see approach, and this likely means that the earliest this station will be on the air is around the early part of September 2014.

PMCM TV advised the FCC they wanted to "get on the air with full on-channel carriage prior to the key ratings periods coming up in the fall." Realistically, PMCM TV is not expecting windfall ratings in any key demographics that necessitate launching by Fall. Their only goal here is to get this matter expedited, as it should be.


----------



## andgarden

It is interesting that CBS did not a stink about PMCM. After all, CBS is channel 3 in Philadelphia (KYW) and will overlap with KVNV. Likewise, as we know, WCBS is channel 2, and overlaps with KJWP in the same way.

One wonders if CBS viewers in central Jersey will see any difficulty.


----------



## Trip in VA

CBS probably didn't care because whether the viewer gets WCBS or KYW, a CBS O&O station still gets the viewer, so the same corporate parent is involved.

If a WFSB viewer can no longer find the station, he or she goes to WCBS and Meredith loses a viewer to CBS.

- Trip


----------



## veedon

I wonder how valuable it is for a station to have a low channel number on a cable system rather than a higher channel number.


----------



## Aero 1

veedon said:


> I wonder how valuable it is for a station to have a low channel number on a cable system rather than a higher channel number.


Old people. The old people have an amazing inability to adapt to anything.


----------



## veedon

Aero 1 said:


> Old people. The old people have an amazing inability to adapt to anything.


In their defense, there is something eminently sensible about having Channel 3 be on Channel 3, not on some crazy channel number such as 1284.


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> I wonder how valuable it is for a station to have a low channel number on a cable system rather than a higher channel number.


incredibly valuable. it can make or break a station. WLNY-55 identifies itself as 10/55 due to the ch10 placement on CV & FIOS. WFUT enjoys the ch17 slot on CV,FIOS,RCN while others carry them way up on 68.

WNYC (now WPXN) was moved from 3 to 31 on TWC Manhattan systems and fought to get the 3 slot back. When the station was sold to Pax, TWC moved it to 31 and put it's then parent owned TNT back to 3. Back then parent owned stations NY1, TNT, TBS, E!, CNN, CNNfn, HBO, Cinemax were all below channel 30.

TWC NYC has always gotten better programming fees for lower channel placement because networks want to make sure Madison Ave advertisers see their stations. They made a sweetheart deal with NBC a few years back to have their networks on consecutive channels 14 thru 18. Obscure networks that were previously in the 100+ range like Bloomberg & Investigative Discovery paid to play and ended up on channels below 30. 

Cable companies get commissions on sales from shopping stations so they typically get low channel placement. Get the idea?


----------



## Aero 1

*WJLP 3 Update*

Well, i was kinda right that the recent weather affected the launch. My contact passed the following along when I asked about a new launch date.



> Delays have been more frequent due to weather (rain). We are also dealing with unexpected and unwelcome FCC issues . I'd rather depend on the weather ! Hope to fire up antenna in about 2 weeks for over the air service, cable carriage a month away. Did I mention the unions? ! Regards


----------



## mod50ack

Aero 1 said:


> Well, i was kinda right that the recent weather affected the launch. My contact passed the following along when I asked about a new launch date.


This is promising. Could you ask your contact if MeTV programming will begin in 2 weeks as well?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Aero 1 said:


> Well, i was kinda right that the recent weather affected the launch. My contact passed the following along when I asked about a new launch date.


A rain delay? _Really?_

This station was supposed to be on the air, initially, by the second quarter of 2014. That date was pushed back to the end of July 2014. In July 2014, within the immediate NYC area, there were 10 out of 31 days which had measured precipitation in the form of rain. 3 out of those 10 days occurred during a weekend. 3 out of those 10 days (to be fair, these 3 occurred on weekdays) had rain that exceeded one inch. And the majority of the 1"+ soaker rain days occurred immediately before the 4th of July holiday, which this year was adjacent to a weekend.

Now I understand that transmitting antennas aren't installed in a day, and yes, weather can play some sort of a role in causing delays for such work. But for all intents and purposes, this Summer, in terms of weather, has been relatively uneventful, rather dry, rather cool, and with no significant storms.

When WCBS-TV meteorologist Lonnie Quinn remains fully dressed for his weather reports, you KNOW the forecast is typical.

Using the reasoning that the delays encountered in launching this station are due to precipitation, Meredith and any of the NYC area MVPDs will have nothing to worry about because this station will not take to the air.

Perhaps this is why KVNV survived so well back in the semi-arid climate of Nevada


----------



## replayrob

Aero 1 said:


> Well, i was kinda right that the recent weather affected the launch. My contact passed the following along when I asked about a new launch date.


We also had several tower jobs delayed last month due to weather as well. If it wasn't raining it was too windy to climb.
Our engineer was very frustrated by delays last month....

If you've ever had to coordinate a tower job- you know how many factors are involved- once you get bad weather it's not like you can just show up the next day and start climbing.


----------



## uhfyagi

replayrob said:


> We also had several tower jobs delayed last month due to weather as well. If it wasn't raining it was too windy to climb.
> Our engineer was very frustrated by delays last month....
> 
> If you've ever had to coordinate a tower job- you know how many factors are involved- once you get bad weather it's not like you can just show up the next day and start climbing.


If anyone is watching wzme right now, there is no metv programming being shown, color bars are in its place. looks very likely that METV is off air. Possible that kvnv is logging on soon


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> If anyone is watching wzme right now, there is no metv programming being shown, color bars are in its place. looks very likely that METV is off air. Possible that kvnv is logging on soon


Or more likely they're experiencing technical difficulties. Surely if they are to indeed lose access to MeTV programming whether it be today or next month, they 'll have a plan in place to put alternate content on like infomercials rather than color bars. Infomercials make more money than color bars.


----------



## uhfyagi

nyctveng said:


> Or more likely they're experiencing technical difficulties. Surely if they are to indeed lose access to MeTV programming whether it be today or next month, they 'll have a plan in place to put alternate content on like infomercials rather than color bars. Infomercials make more money than color bars.


they use the metv newyork logo when they're having difficulties. we'll see soon by 8 tonite. 

it was change programming that metv changed today they took off mash and have donna reed show, wzme must be really understaffed to be off the air like an hour.


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> they use the metv newyork logo when they're having difficulties. we'll see soon by 8 tonite.


MeTV programming has resumed on WZME


----------



## dstoffa

nyctveng said:


> MeTV programming has resumed on WZME


But not showing what zap2it reads they should be, nor the guide data they are broadcasting...

They are showing an old western instead of Kotter.


----------



## uhfyagi

dstoffa said:


> But not showing what zap2it reads they should be, nor the guide data they are broadcasting...
> 
> They are showing an old western instead of Kotter.


Looks like they're showing videos from METV vault. Satellite feed must be down.


----------



## flatronic

They were broadcasting this screen for a while (attached) until it went to an informercial, eventually (though they're supposed to be showing MeTV programming for that timeslot).


----------



## mrsat94

flatronic said:


> They were broadcasting this screen for a while (attached) until it went to an informercial, eventually (though they're supposed to be showing MeTV programming for that timeslot).


I also noticed from both off air (43.1) and Verizon (Ch. 19) last night there was only "Me Tv" bug. It did not say "New York" I also noticed it was showing west coast programming. At 930P it showed the Riffleman. This morning at 430A it had 70's hits informercial.
Something is not right because it does not reflect the guide. Is WZME just showing vaulted or time delayed shows until new the station takes over?


----------



## dstoffa

mrsat94 said:


> I also noticed from both off air (43.1) and Verizon (Ch. 19) last night there was only "Me Tv" bug. It did not say "New York" I also noticed it was showing west coast programming. At 930P it showed the Riffleman. This morning at 430A it had 70's hits informercial.
> Something is not right because it does not reflect the guide. Is WZME just showing vaulted or time delayed shows until new the station takes over?


The guide info match what they were broadcasting this morning before 8am.
MeTV was showing an infomercial, IIRC.
The Works (on WZME-DT2 43.2) was showing "Empire of the Ants"


----------



## hancox

nyctveng said:


> What difference does affiliation make? That can change at anytime although unlikely for the CBS-NY in this particular case.


Ask an NFL fan if they would have a problem losing 2 possible CBS networks due to 33 being assigned in adjoining markets. Mind you, it's a small sample, but still...


----------



## dstoffa

hancox said:


> Ask an NFL fan if they would have a problem losing 2 possible CBS networks due to 33 being assigned in adjoining markets. Mind you, it's a small sample, but still...


Small Sample that has a jointenna pointing in two directions in an effort to receive two distant, yet considered in-market, stations on the same frequency.
I think I could count on my hand the number of people who have two super-yagis... one pointed to ESB, the other to Hartford, to received these two CBS stations.


----------



## hancox

dstoffa said:


> Small Sample that has a jointenna pointing in two directions in an effort to receive two distant, yet considered in-market, stations on the same frequency.
> I think I could count on my hand the number of people who have two super-yagis... one pointed to ESB, the other to Hartford, to received these two CBS stations.


You can't seriously be talking about numbers of actual viewers with regards to OTA impact - if that were the case, the whole thing would be gone, tomorrow!

As to the original question, the FCC cares enough to report it...

http://transition.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/CBS.pdf

WFSB only lost almost a half a million possible viewers from the transition - what's that amongst friends? The number of people that lost CBS as a result of the transition in Fairfield and New Haven counties is fairly big, compared to the rest of the map, especially factoring in for population.


----------



## dstoffa

hancox said:


> You can't seriously be talking about numbers of actual viewers with regards to OTA impact - if that were the case, the whole thing would be gone, tomorrow!
> 
> As to the original question, the FCC cares enough to report it...
> 
> http://transition.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/CBS.pdf
> 
> WFSB only lost almost a half a million possible viewers from the transition - what's that amongst friends? The number of people that lost CBS as a result of the transition in Fairfield and New Haven counties is fairly big, compared to the rest of the map, especially factoring in for population.


But this argument is outside the scope of the K-Whatever discussion about broadcasting on RF-3.

Someone else posted earlier in this thread about WFSB and WCBS both using RF-33 for their OTA Ops... and it's been this way since the switch. It should have been addressed then, not now.

If a viewer cannot receive either WCBS or WFSB via OTA right now, I am certain they are making use of cable or DBS for their OTA viewing. As stated earlier, it MIGHT be an issue for those where the markets overlap, and they need to locate their stations if K-Whatever gets the Ch 3 position on the payTV system.

WCBS is constructing (or already has) a translator on RF-22 out in Plainview, which should improve CBS reception dur to WFSB, and give those in CT a second CBS market feed.


----------



## Trip in VA

WCBS-22 is already operating. Has been for some time.

- Trip


----------



## veedon

Did anybody bother to ask the Nutmeggers whether they want to watch NYC stations? Maybe they're just not so enamored with NYC. ( They're probably not too fond of Carolinians, either, considering how we stole their Whalers from them.)


----------



## KEVINL71

Makes me wonder who was assigned their digital channel first? WFSB-TV of Hartford has always had their digital assignment on channel 33. The ones who moved in Hartford/New Haven were:

WCCT-TV (CW) channel 20 Waterbury [was on 12...transmitter in Farmington, CT]
WEDH-TV (PBS) channel 24 Hartford [was on a different channel early on]
WHPX-TV (ION) channel 26 New London [was on 34...transmitter in Montville, CT]

The short-spacing of Hartford/New Haven also affects Boston/Worcester. The best example there is WCVB-TV (ABC) channel 5. They use channel 20 for their digital.

As for the Carolina Hurricanes and the NHL, I'm long past that stage, thank you!


----------



## Trip in VA

As proposed back in 1997, WCBS-DT was on 56, WPIX-DT on 33, WEDH-DT on 32, WFSB-DT on 11, and WWLP-DT also on 33. So great were the concerns about adjacent-channel interference between WTNH-10 and WFSB-11 that the FCC in the 1998 R&O swapped the WFSB and WWLP allotments.

Then in the channel elections, WPIX elected to return to 11, and WCBS didn't have a place to go (analog 2, digital 56). 45 was tied up with WABC trying to force their way back onto 7 despite the presence of WNJB on 8 (but wanting 45 held just in case) and so 33 was the best available option.

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

Icannot understand why kvnv be on ch3 here in nyc, and fsb stays the same in ct. Just put kvnv on 33 or 34 in ct. Case closed.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> Icannot understand why kvnv be on ch3 here in nyc, and fsb stays the same in ct. Just put kvnv on 33 or 34 in ct. Case closed.


a simple google search and a quick read through of KVNV's wiki page will answer your question pretty quickly.


----------



## reddice

Things are going to get worse when they chop off another 100 MHz for useless mobile companies. I predict in another 10 years there won't be any more OTA broadcasts or even FM as most of the spectrum will go to mobile use. Everything will then be broadcasting on cable, satellite, internet and mobile.


----------



## uhfyagi

reddice said:


> Things are going to get worse when they chop off another 100 MHz for useless mobile companies. I predict in another 10 years there won't be any more OTA broadcasts or even FM as most of the spectrum will go to mobile use. Everything will then be broadcasting on cable, satellite, internet and mobile.


You couldn't be more wrong. With 4k coming on ota is gonna be around longer than you n me.


----------



## mod50ack

uhfyagi said:


> You couldn't be more wrong. With 4k coming on ota is gonna be around longer than you n me.


No chance of 4K coming to OTA, not in the US with ATSC standards. (DVB-T/HEVC works with it, though)

Anyway, I think that 4K is wholly unnecessary for me, but that's probably because my vision is awful.  I still sometimes record programming on EP VHS tapes! 


On the other hand, WFUT-TV68/30 may soon have a new subchannel. Starting today I have been picking up GetTV on 30-4 as well as 68-3.

As for the end of terrestrial TV, I don't see it happening anytime soon. It's growing in popularity today, actually.


----------



## reddice

mod50ack said:


> No chance of 4K coming to OTA, not in the US with ATSC standards. (DVB-T/HEVC works with it, though)
> 
> As for the end of terrestrial TV, I don't see it happening anytime soon. It's growing in popularity today, actually.


But the networks hate that though. They want you to subscribe to a expensive cable/satellite package just to stream there content online which is free OTA.


----------



## mod50ack

reddice said:


> But the networks hate that though. They want you to subscribe to a expensive cable/satellite package just to stream there content online which is free OTA.


Unfortunately, that's true.... luckily, here in New York, I have 70+ channels on DTV. The networks (at least the big ones) do not seem to be interested in dropping their stations.

1) CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox, and such all own stations and selling off expensive equipment used to broadcast would likely be difficult.

2) PBS and the smaller networks that depend on must-carry will certainly maintain the craft, if you will.


Also, does anybody know what W19EH and W26DC (both low power) air? I live within a few miles of these stations (in Lake Success and Roslyn, respectively) and may be interested in orienting to catch them depending on what they have. If they are like WMUN and just show infomercials I'm not interested.


----------



## uhfyagi

There are way to many infomercials channels in NYC. If you look at Philadelphia ota channel listings they have less channels but they utilize their channels with real programming, unlike NYC. I count at least 3 channels that have Chinese news 32,35,43. If these channels were used correctly we've had METV,retro,and others.


----------



## mod50ack

uhfyagi said:


> There are way to many infomercials channels in NYC. If you look at Philadelphia ota channel listings they have less channels but they utilize their channels with real programming, unlike NYC. I count at least 3 channels that have Chinese news 32,35,43. If these channels were used correctly we've had METV,retro,and others.


WMUN-CD45 used to translate WLNY-TV55/47/c10, but that ended in 2012. I get WMUN, not WLNY. It's informercials now.

WZME-TV43/42 seems to air informercials more than MeTV, leading to KVNV-TV(KJLP-TV)3. 


WNYJ-TV66/29 is English News from China, France 24, and WFME. They used to have educational content from Philly but that was dropped, it seems.

32, 35, 43? Top that, 24-2, 24-3, 66-1 (during daytime)

42-4, 45-1, 31-4, 31-5, 31-6, 60-1, and 32-4 are infomercials or shopping.

and 17-1, 17-3 (no 2 there for some reason), 42-2, 54-1, 54-2, 54-3, 54-5, 63-3, 46-2, 51-3 and 48-4 are all religious channels.


----------



## dstoffa

uhfyagi said:


> There are way to many infomercials channels in NYC. If you look at Philadelphia ota channel listings they have less channels but they utilize their channels with real programming, unlike NYC. I count at least 3 channels that have Chinese news 32,35,43. If these channels were used correctly we've had METV,retro,and others.


Well, in my location in SW Nassau, I can pick up the following Sub-channels of interest with my OTA Rig:

4-2 cozi-TV
5-2 movies!
9-3 Bounce
11-2 AntennaTV
11-3 ThisTV
42-1 MeTV
42-2 the Works
68-3 getTV

The New York Market should be getting Grit and Escape soon...

Outside of RetroTV, what else is missing from NY?


Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## mod50ack

dstoffa said:


> Well, in my location in SW Nassau, I can pick up the following Sub-channels of interest with my OTA Rig:
> 
> 4-2 cozi-TV
> 5-2 movies!
> 9-3 Bounce
> 11-2 AntennaTV
> 11-3 ThisTV
> 42-1 MeTV
> 42-2 the Works
> 68-3 getTV
> 
> The New York Market should be getting Grit and Escape soon...
> 
> Outside of RetroTV, what else is missing from NY?
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


NW corner of Nassau, though at the moment I only have an indoor antenna. It should be noted, though, that this is not my ideal setup; I have it set this way (eastward) to get WLIW, which is fringe for me:

(in virtual order)

WCBS 2
WNBC 4
WNYW 5
WABC 7
WWOR 9
WPIX 11
WNET 13
WEBR 17
WLIW 21
WASA 24
WNYE 25
WPXN 31
WPXO 34
WXTV 41
WMUN 45
(sometimes) WMBQ 46
WNJU 47
WNJN 50
WBQM 51
W41DO 60
(sometimes) WMBC 63
WFUT 68

What's your lineup, Doug?

(surprisingly I don't get W26DC or W19EH, less than 5 miles away)

We miss on MHz Worldview (formerly 66-4, IIRC), Deutsche Welle TV, MiND, and Classic Arts Showcase (formerly 45-1), PBJ, and the family channel.


----------



## dstoffa

mod50ack said:


> What's your lineup, Doug?


(in virtual order)

WCBS 2
WNBC 4
WNYW 5
WABC 7
WWOR 9
WPIX 11
WPXU 12
WNET 13
WLIW 21
WASA 24
WNYE 25
WPXN 31
something 32
WXTV 41
WKOB 42
WZME 43
WMUN 45
WMBQ 46
WNJU 47
WNJN 50
WBQM 54
WMBC 63
WFUT 68

My rig is aimed at ESB. When the gods allow, I have gotten WLNY from Riverhead, and KYW, and WTXF from Philly.


----------



## uhfyagi

I'm in near lga with rooftop antenna at 30' I get these. I use a medium size yagi uhf antenna.
2 wcbs
4 wnbc
5 fox
7 wabc
9 wor
10 wtnh ct most of times
11 wpix
12 wpxn
13 wnet
17 chinese 
21 wliw
24 wasa
25 wnye
31 ion
34 mundo fox
35 wvit ct most of times
39 wctx ct most of times
41 latino
42 wkob
43 wzme
45 wmun
46 latino
48 multi ethnic from poughkeepsie
49 wedw ct pbs
50 latino
54 religious from poughkeepsie


----------



## Aero 1

anyone else notice that since last night (thats when my tivo alerted me of new channels) that WWOR is also broadcasting on Virtual Channel 38-3, -4, -5? its still RF 38 and its still on Virtual 9 like always.


----------



## nyctveng

reddice said:


> Things are going to get worse when they chop off another 100 MHz for useless mobile companies.


I wonder if the 65% of the 300 million mobile customers in the US that have smartphones would agree that the mobile companies are useless


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> There are way to many infomercials channels in NYC. If you look at Philadelphia ota channel listings they have less channels but they utilize their channels with real programming, unlike NYC. I count at least 3 channels that have Chinese news 32,35,43. If these channels were used correctly we've had METV,retro,and others.


NYC has the biggest chinese population in the USA so I would think that the 800,000 chinese in the area may think those 3 channels were used correctly. What you consider real programming, others may consider garbage. The owners of the stations will program with what makes them money. In case you never left NYC or your parents basement, the demographics of Philadelphia are quite different than here.


----------



## Trip in VA

nyctveng said:


> NYC has the biggest chinese population in the USA so I would think that the 800,000 chinese in the area may think those 3 channels were used correctly. What you consider real programming, others may consider garbage. The owners of the stations will program with what makes them money. In case you never left NYC or your parents basement, the demographics of Philadelphia are quite different than here.


I think the point was that those three channels simulcast the same programming.

- Trip


----------



## mod50ack

Trip in VA said:


> I think the point was that those three channels simulcast the same programming.
> 
> - Trip


Indeed. Want CCTV News and SinoVision? Fine! But it makes no sense to have them being on 6 transmitters in one market.


----------



## veedon

mod50ack said:


> Indeed. Want CCTV News and SinoVision? Fine! But it makes no sense to have them being on 6 transmitters in one market.


The owners of those stations must have some reason for having all those transmitters. Do the coverage areas overlap, or are they serving different areas? Not everybody has cable, and, believe it or not, there are even people who do not have and do not want to have a smartphone.

I always wonder about the people who shell out a hundred dollars or more each month for cell phone service. Are those people saving any money at all for a rainy day?


----------



## Trip in VA

They all transmit from the same building with roughly the same antenna pattern.

- Trip


----------



## dstoffa

dstoffa said:


> The New York Market should be getting Grit and Escape soon...


WFUT-DT4 (68.4) is now running promos for ESCAPE. Well, not really promos, but basically what is on their website.. A repeating 10 second loop...


Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## uhfyagi

dstoffa said:


> WFUT-DT4 (68.4) is now running promos for ESCAPE. Well, not really promos, but basically what is on their website.. A repeating 10 second loop...
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


I'm confident that METV will be on will wjpl by September 7. Can't wait to watch man from U.N.C.L.E. also mission impossible. I can get wzme ota but that station never shows night gallery and other shows. Darn infomercials. Wjpl signal strength should come in strong like wabc is a full power station.


----------



## AloEuro

30 - 4 Escape.
Last week Thursday or Friday Escape was showing promo of 68--3 Get TV on 30-4 Then they went to logo promo Aero posted couple pages back, Add scan should place it on 30-4.


----------



## Aero 1

Grit 41.4 and Escape 68.4 officially launch on August 18th,

Their sites are up and running with full schedules:

http://www.grittv.com/

http://www.escapetv.com/

Escape TV is currently showing the movie Final Analysis


----------



## mod50ack

WNYE-TV has really dropped for me in the past few days. Anybody else getting this?


----------



## flatronic

Does anyone here get/watch WVVH-CD? I was channel surfing past their channel to come upon one of the most poorly produced station IDs I've seen:


----------



## Aero 1

mod50ack said:


> WNYE-TV has really dropped for me in the past few days. Anybody else getting this?


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo.../275729-new-york-ny-ota-575.html#post25983218


----------



## Aero 1

Grit 41.4 is now live and showing promos for the channel.


----------



## veedon

Well, Me-TV released its new fall schedule today. Is the transplanted KVNV on the air promoting it yet? Time's-a-wastin'. Better fire up that RF3 blowtorch and then tell the cable and satellite systems to hand over the coveted Channel 3 slot!


----------



## uhfyagi

veedon said:


> Well, Me-TV released its new fall schedule today. Is the transplanted KVNV on the air promoting it yet? Time's-a-wastin'. Better fire up that RF3 blowtorch and then tell the cable and satellite systems to hand over the coveted Channel 3 slot!


Lol, give the fcc at least a year to make a decision on this issue who is counting anyway.


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> Lol, give the fcc at least a year to make a decision on this issue who is counting anyway.


A federal court ordered the FCC to permit the license to be moved to New Jersey, so I don't think the FCC can delay too long in resolving the dispute over the virtual channel number.


----------



## uhfyagi

Metv fall lineup leaves alot to be desired, they put on adam12 so often they might as well call themselves fusstv. Cheers again, they are so many other great sitcoms from 70s 
Would love to seen CPO Charley, what's happening, one day atta time, to name a few. I don't plan watching they're lineup. Wish retrotv was still around.


----------



## dvdchance

If your thinking of the Don Rickles show, I believe it was CPO Sharkey


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> Metv fall lineup leaves alot to be desired, they put on adam12 so often they might as well call themselves fusstv. Cheers again, they are so many other great sitcoms from 70s
> Would love to seen CPO Charley, what's happening, one day atta time, to name a few. I don't plan watching they're lineup. Wish retrotv was still around.


I read that the reason that they're showing so many episodes of Adam-12 and Dragnet is that those shows will be moving to another network (maybe Cozi) next year, so Me-TV is putting those shows into heavier rotation while it still has the rights.

I'm interested to see how I like "The Man from U.N.C.L.E". I've never seen that show.


----------



## uhfyagi

Grit TV ratio aspect needs to be adjusted back to 4:3 currently looks 16:9 squeezed.


----------



## d3193

uhfyagi said:


> Grit TV ratio aspect needs to be adjusted back to 4:3 currently looks 16:9 squeezed.


I certainly won't be watching anything on 'Grit' until they get their act together on picture stretch/squeeze. Everything I've seen so far is 4:3 material stretched to 16:9. Who's in charge? There's no excuse for this.

Sony's 'Get' and Fox's 'Movies' are able to get it right all the time, and look pretty good for sub-channels. It's not all that difficult.


----------



## uhfyagi

Where is everybody? Anyone alive? Seems like everyone is waiting for METV to get here so they can chime in? Hint.. Metv might not here for awhile.


----------



## rothe

Still here! But nothing new and exciting to discuss.

So... change of subject: is anyone else still having trouble picking up WNYE (25)? Let me clarify: is anyone else WHO ISN'T WITHIN TEN MILES of the transmitter having trouble? I would have thought that they'd be finished with their upgrades by now.


----------



## mod50ack

rothe said:


> Still here! But nothing new and exciting to discuss.
> 
> So... change of subject: is anyone else still having trouble picking up WNYE (25)? Let me clarify: is anyone else WHO ISN'T WITHIN TEN MILES of the transmitter having trouble? I would have thought that they'd be finished with their upgrades by now.



Still having WNYE issues here. No 3 yet either.


----------



## Aero 1

mod50ack said:


> Still having WNYE issues here. No 3 yet either.


same here, but i wonder if WNYE problems has to do with KVNV? im just speculating and the reason is because look at this thread:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/2178697-new-tv-station-finally-coming-around.html

this guy says he works for them, took down "the top antenna" and will be installing the KVNV antenna in the next couple of weeks. Just posted and asked him. lets see if there is a response.


----------



## dvdchance

I have a question. What will eventually be on 41.3? Right now it is blank.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> same here, but i wonder if WNYE problems has to do with KVNV? im just speculating and the reason is because look at this thread:
> 
> http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/2178697-new-tv-station-finally-coming-around.html
> 
> this guy says he works for them, took down "the top antenna" and will be installing the KVNV antenna in the next couple of weeks. Just posted and asked him. lets see if there is a response.


I live 7 miles east of ESB I have not seen wnye signal fluctuate, the way is being described by everyone, is been solid thru and thru. I'm getting strong inversion tonite, boston's wgbh a pbs station maxing out strengthwise on my zenith stb. all my Connecticut stations are being overridden by another station must be a real strong ducting enjoy while it last.


----------



## Trip in VA

dvdchance said:


> I have a question. What will eventually be on 41.3? Right now it is blank.


Bounce TV.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

mod50ack said:


> Still having WNYE issues here. No 3 yet either.



Same here no WNYE (25.1-3), no 3 and no 41.3.


----------



## Aero 1

because of vacations, Burning Man and "i got better things to do" are the reasons why KVNV is not up yet

http://www.city-data.com/forum/36253087-post20.html



captne76 said:


> Myself and others are either on vacation and one of the tv engineers goes out to the "Burning Man" festival out in the desert every year at this time. I will fill in if I get info, I'm busy elsewhere.


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> Bounce TV.
> 
> - Trip


 we receive bounce on 9.4 whats with the repeat stations , how bout giving us tufftv or cooltv. hey trip did you pickup up that cm4251 how is working for you?


----------



## Trip in VA

Bounce's affiliation agreement with Fox is ending, and it's moving to 41-3.

I've got it but haven't yet tested it out. I don't have a roof mount for it yet, nor a mast pipe.

- Trip


----------



## speedlaw

*WCBS as well....*

This afternoon, 2.1 has been very weak. All other stations (save the missing 25) are normal in strength. I have a line of sight to NYC from my location....normally very stable.

2.1 is clearly running low power.


----------



## Aero 1

speedlaw said:


> This afternoon, 2.1 has been very weak. All other stations (save the missing 25) are normal in strength. I have a line of sight to NYC from my location....normally very stable.
> 
> 2.1 is clearly running low power.


not at my location:










and not according to this: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WCBS-TV


----------



## uhfyagi

I got chimney mount and a pole if you want it is yours


----------



## speedlaw

Aero 1 said:


> not at my location:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and not according to this: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WCBS-TV


Cool Resource ! 

I have a far fringe antenna (old RS, second from top, looks like a channelmaster knock off) and am 40 miles upriver from NYC. I have a very stable signal between 62-97 % for the NYC broadcasters. I feed four TV sets OTA and two stereo tuners, without an amp.

There is a minor seasonal fluctuation for the trees, but that's it. CBS is normally 85 %, but had dropped in my location to >50 % and was losing lock (admittedly with a first gen Sony HDD 250 tuner). The pixellation was kinda trippy, though....

I'll have to bookmark that.

Back in the day, DX from Philly was common.....at least I still get all the NYC channels, it allowed me to cut a cord.


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> not at my location:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and not according to this: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WCBS-TV



Aero, what device are you using to produce this rather nifty signal info?


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> Aero, what device are you using to produce this rather nifty signal info?


Tivo


----------



## mambwe

Des anyone here know what my best option would be out on Long Island - Exit 47? I'm in Plainview(11803), NY and I am looking for an antenna that I can mount in my house. I am mainly looking for Fox so I can watch the NY Giants.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=ec2fea0d80f996


----------



## Aero 1

mambwe said:


> Des anyone here know what my best option would be out on Long Island - Exit 47? I'm in Plainview(11803), NY and I am looking for an antenna that I can mount in my house. I am mainly looking for Fox so I can watch the NY Giants.
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=ec2fea0d80f996


are you looking to place an antenna indoors? if you are, you might get away with simple rabbit ears and loop or those rediculous mohu leafs, but you will most likely have trouble with hi-vhf channels (WPIX, WABC and PBS). i would think that at that distance, although you are LOS, an outdoor antenna would be better.


----------



## mambwe

Why is the Mohu Leaf ridiculous? That was one antenna I was looking at. I definitely want WABC.


----------



## Aero 1

mambwe said:


> Why is the Mohu Leaf ridiculous? That was one antenna I was looking at. I definitely want WABC.


its ridiculous because of the marketing claims they make that people fall for. all it is a $1 wire laminated in plastic that sells for $30+. does it work? sure, for some people. will it work for you? who knows, you'll have to try it. the mohu states that it will receive hi-VHF signals at 30+ miles away, i havent been able to do that and if you search around, not many people at that distance can. Mohu is great at marketing, lousy at antennas.

read this: http://www.hdtvexpert.com/tag/indoor-dtv-reception/

tl;dr: a $4 radio shack bowtie antenna beat out the mohu and other expensive antennas at his location.

it might work for you, try it, but i have a feeling that you will need something bigger or outside to pull in those vhf channels, especially RF 7 ABC.


----------



## reddice

If you serious about pulling in the high-VHF channels (7, 11 and 13) you defiantly need a roof antenna. Before with the indoors only channel 7 came in as 11 and 13 were weaker.


----------



## uhfyagi

speedlaw said:


> Cool Resource !
> 
> I have a far fringe antenna (old RS, second from top, looks like a channelmaster knock off) and am 40 miles upriver from NYC. I have a very stable signal between 62-97 % for the NYC broadcasters. I feed four TV sets OTA and two stereo tuners, without an amp.
> 
> There is a minor seasonal fluctuation for the trees, but that's it. CBS is normally 85 %, but had dropped in my location to >50 % and was losing lock (admittedly with a first gen Sony HDD 250 tuner). The pixellation was kinda trippy, though....
> 
> I'll have to bookmark that.
> 
> Back in the day, DX from Philly was common.....at least I still get all the NYC channels, it allowed me to cut a cord.


Love that track transeurope express, I use boogie to that back I the days, also like numbers, pocket calculator. I use to get philly stations from Howard beach, queens with a. Radio shack antenna analog


----------



## veedon

mambwe said:


> Des anyone here know what my best option would be out on Long Island - Exit 47? I'm in Plainview(11803), NY and I am looking for an antenna that I can mount in my house. I am mainly looking for Fox so I can watch the NY Giants.
> 
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=ec2fea0d80f996



What? The report says that people might be able to receive KVNV on RF3 at a distance of 27 miles with just an indoor antenna? Not likely.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

veedon said:


> What? The report says that people might be able to receive KVNV on RF3 at a distance of 27 miles with just an indoor antenna? Not likely.


TVFool is reflecting the new CP for almost 7 kW from 4 Times Sq at 1116'. That facility, once built and at full power, should give coverage about 60-65 miles out on Long Island. A long set of rabbit ears might get it well enough at 27 miles.


----------



## uhfyagi

ProjectSHO89 said:


> TVFool is reflecting the new CP for almost 7 kW from 4 Times Sq at 1116'. That facility, once built and at full power, should give coverage about 60-65 miles out on Long Island. A long set of rabbit ears might get it well enough at 27 miles.


Jane's hill is close to you it might hamper reception if you're on the wrong side. That's why most of queens cannot receive wlny tv55.


----------



## uhfyagi

Wkob rf ch is 2, I receive it with a yagi uhf antenna perpendicular or broadside to wkob TV tower is a trick that works cause the antenna is 2/3 the size of the wavelength of wkob. I summize that kvnv signal will be prone to adjacent channel interference, hence it will be somewhat weaker and less reliable to what tvfool is suggesting.







b tv tower.ink it might interfere with kvnv,


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> The report says that people might be able to receive KVNV on RF3 at a distance of 27 miles with just an indoor antenna? Not likely.





ProjectSHO89 said:


> TVFool is reflecting the new CP for almost 7 kW from 4 Times Sq at 1116'. That facility, once built and at full power, should give coverage about 60-65 miles out on Long Island. A long set of rabbit ears might get it well enough at 27 miles.


What works on paper doesn't always work in the field. Many television broadcasters learned this lesson the hard way soon after June 12, 2009.

The KVNV signal may be there (once PMCM gets around to turning it on), but *reliable* reception of it may prove a challenge to all but an attic/outdoor antenna. When major-market network O&O full-power VHF-Hi signals prove a challenge to indoor antennas in most scenarios, don't even _think_ about attempting VHF-Lo reception with an indoor antenna.

The KVNV signal will also likely suffer intermittently from bouts of impulse noise and other atmospheric phenomenon. While a viewer in New Jersey, New York City, or Long Island is frustratingly twisting his/her indoor antenna every which way to pull in the Me-TV signal that was just fine two hours ago, a random guy in Kentucky may be sitting back enjoying that very same signal with minimal disruption due in large part to his well-crafted outdoor antenna and a healthy dose of E-Skip.

All of these serve as valid reasons to obtain and install an attic/outdoor antenna if you have any serious desires of reliably receiving this signal.



uhfyagi said:


> Wkob rf ch is 2, I receive it with a yagi uhf antenna perpendicular or broadside to wkob TV tower is a trick that works cause the antenna is 2/3 the size of the wavelength of wkob. I summize that kvnv signal will be prone to adjacent channel interference, hence it will be somewhat weaker and less reliable to what tvfool is suggesting.
> 
> b tv tower.ink it might interfere with kvnv,


As I eluded to in an earlier post, the days when WKOB-LD poses any signal threat to KVNV by way of adjacent channel interference may be numbered. The licensee of WKOB-LD holds a recently modified CP to move that signal to West Orange, NJ. and it's RF channel to UHF RF 42. Per regulations, a low-power signal may present no interference to a full-power signal, regardless of which signal was there first.

Once KVNV signs-on, if the station determines that WKOB-LD is causing any harmful interference, they can request the FCC grant any relief necessary, including shutting down the station, to eliminate the interference. WKOB-LD is taking a pre-emptive move to ensure its place in this market, and will likely be ready to complete its move if and/or when this scenario develops. When WKOB-LD moves off channel 2, the only adjacent channel interference that could be posed to KVNV would be from atmospheric conditions and/or out-of-market operations.

If WKOB-LD departs channel 2, the move would likely help with reception of KVNV, but I don't believe it would be so significant as to negate all of the issues of the VHF-Lo band. I do not base these hypotheses on WKOB-LD reception, I base them on WABC-TV reception. If a full-power VHF-Hi station is difficult to receive with an indoor antenna at certain locations, it can best be surmised that the same scenario played out on the VHF-Lo Band would prove more challenging and difficult.

These statements are intended to be realist. However, it is my hope that the KVNV signal will prove better than expected, thus allowing for a larger audience from potential viewers who are not subscribers to a pay television service.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

> What works on paper doesn't always work in the field.


Very, very true. Thanks for the expanded explanation.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> same here, but i wonder if WNYE problems has to do with KVNV? im just speculating and the reason is because look at this thread:
> 
> http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/2178697-new-tv-station-finally-coming-around.html
> 
> this guy says he works for them, took down "the top antenna" and will be installing the KVNV antenna in the next couple of weeks. Just posted and asked him. lets see if there is a response.





ProjectSHO89 said:


> Very, very true. Thanks for the expanded explanation.


High vhf and low vhf are two separate group of bands which behave totally differently, ABC signal is a clear strong signal which has 70+ effective radius I've received their signal as far south as Tom's river nj. The one plus that vhf low has and high vhf doesn't their signal can be got 100+ miles which ABC 7 cannot touch.


----------



## mambwe

Do you have any suggestions on a specific antenna? I would rather not mount outside. What would give me the best reception while still using an indoor/outdoor antenna in my attic.


----------



## uhfyagi

mambwe said:


> Do you have any suggestions on a specific antenna? I would rather not mount outside. What would give me the best reception while still using an indoor/outdoor antenna in my attic.


we don't have your location please goto tvfool plug in your address and generate a report, be accurate as possible, use 20 ft for height.


----------



## mambwe

uhfyagi said:


> mambwe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any suggestions on a specific antenna? I would rather not mount outside. What would give me the best reception while still using an indoor/outdoor antenna in my attic.
> 
> 
> 
> we don't have your location please goto tvfool plug in your address and generate a report, be accurate as possible, use 20 ft for height.
Click to expand...

I posted my report earlier but I don't think I did with 20 ft height. Here it is with 20 ft height:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=d243709aedd1b6

Thank you for your help!!


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> we don't have your location please goto tvfool plug in your address and generate a report, be accurate as possible, use 20 ft for height.


he posted it yesterday.


----------



## uhfyagi

It seems that your location is good candidate for small antenna, you can getaway with something like a hd1080x from solid signal, I can't seem to post a link so just go to their site take a view, this antenna has vhf elements in a small package.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Antenna Recommendation*



mambwe said:


> Do you have any suggestions on a specific antenna? I would rather not mount outside. What would give me the best reception while still using an indoor/outdoor antenna in my attic.





uhfyagi said:


> It seems that your location is good candidate for small antenna, you can getaway with something like a hd1080x from solid signal, I can't seem to post a link so just go to their site take a view, this antenna has vhf elements in a small package.


The antenna recommended by uhfyagi, not surprisingly by his username , is this: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd1080x

The HD1080X is not a bad little antenna. But it comes with many deficiencies, the two major ones being it is extremely directional and it lacks any VHF-Lo elements.

Given mambwe's preference to perform an attic installation, the consequences of these two major deficiencies would be intensified.

Attic installations are great for many reasons:
1. The antenna is sheltered from the harsh elements.
2. It is relatively accessible for the consumer to safely make adjustments to it as necessary, and to even do so during inclement weather.
3. It is situated at as high an elevation as possible (though limited by the roofline)
4. In most cases, the antenna is not occupying living space and is thus not in anyone's way.
5. The antenna size is limited only by the size of the proposed assigned space.

However, the one major drawback to an attic installation is signal absorption and refraction.

The structure's siding may absorb some of the signals, particularly if it is metallic. The structure itself, again more likely if it is metallic, may also absorb some of the signals. And signals which do penetrate the attic walls and roof decking are subject to refraction within the enclosed attic.

Accordingly, an antenna which is attic-mounted should be omnidirectional and large enough to attract as much signal as possible. Additionally, given the recent additions of TV signals to the VHF-Lo band, an antenna with VHF-Lo elements is more crucial now than in the immediate DTV post-transition days and months.

Therefore, I recommend the *AntennaCraft 5884 Color King VHF UHF FM TV Antenna*, found here: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...-5884-Color-King-VHF-UHF-FM-TV-Antenna-(5884)

Mambwe, by splurging an additional $7.00, it is my considered opinion that you will enjoy better and more reliable reception.


----------



## LenL

*Additional Thoughts*

Having an antenna in the NY Market that picks up VHF low band is NOT crucial unless the low band station is important to the viewer. I would think there are very very very few people who would consider getting channel 3 VHF as critical and needing to go out of there way to find a antenna to pick it up.

Secondly from what I have read and my own experience with attic mount antennas you lose up to 50% or more of your signal. That may not be a problem if you are in very strong reception areas but it does not work for many people. That is why so many people had/have antennas on there roofs and chimneys before cable.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len,


LenL said:


> Having an antenna in the NY Market that picks up VHF low band is NOT crucial unless the low band station is important to the viewer. I would think there are very very very few people who would consider getting channel 3 VHF as critical and needing to go out of there way to find a antenna to pick it up.


It is premature at this point to declare a VHF-Lo band antenna as not critical, be it in the NYC market or anywhere else.

The final repacking of the TV bands has not yet occurred. Unfortunately, if any repacking occurs, it will likely result in an additional loss of available RF channels from the UHF band to broadcasters and ultimately OTA viewers. In that distasteful event, some broadcasters - perhaps even network O&Os - may find themselves contemplating a move to VHF-Lo.

Therefore, it would be more cost-effective for OTA viewers presently seeking to install new antennas to prepare for this possibility. It would be somewhat costly and time-consuming to install a VHF-Hi/UHF combo antenna now, only to have to one day dismantle it and reinstall the somewhat more expensive and substantially larger VHF-Lo capable counterpart.

I feel you have to look ahead. Following the DTV transition in 2009, the VHF-Lo band was all but abandoned in the U.S. due to the impulse noise issues and their catastrophic effects on the ATSC signals. Almost immediately afterward, viewers discovered problems receiving stations on the VHF-Hi band, resulting in viewer complaints to station engineers. These newly found vulnerabilities for ATSC signals in the VHF band resulted in station owners seeking displacement to the UHF band, if possible.

No sooner was the DTV transition complete, then came the treasury department's desires to sell off MORE of the UHF band to private mobile carriers to use for expansion of fee-for-service mobile broadband services. After back-and-forth between the NAB, independent broadcasters, mobile carriers, and the FCC, an incentive auction plan that was more fair to broadcasters than originally drafted was signed into law by congress. Suddenly, the TV bands appear they will be shrunk once again, thus creating a renewed interest in bands and channels that once were undesirable, but now seem less so because it is either them or nothing.

At the end of 2009, there was only one VHF-Lo television channel broadcasting in the New York City market and one in the Philadelphia market. As things presently look, at the end of this year, 2014, there will be two, maybe three, VHF-Lo television channels broadcasting in the New York City market and three in the Philadelphia market. By my count, that constitutes a crucial need for a VHF-Lo band antenna, seeing as those five once undesirable and vacant channels are now quickly being occupied.



LenL said:


> Secondly from what I have read and my own experience with attic mount antennas you lose up to 50% or more of your signal. That may not be a problem if you are in very strong reception areas but it does not work for many people. That is why so many people had/have antennas on there roofs and chimneys before cable.


Oh, if it's a choice between chimney/roof mount or an attic mount installation, I believe you go for the chimney/roof mount, and include an electronic rotor. But many people are disenfranchised because they either cannot access the rooftop or cannot find someone who is knowledgeable and/or willing to perform the installation. This was not a problem back in the pre-cable days you speak of, but it is today.


----------



## jrampoldi

GRIT TV 41-4 is now live; 41-3 has blank screen


----------



## uhfyagi

Kvnv should be online this week 🌝


----------



## uhfyagi

aero1 i just saw your avatar you list amazon prime as one of your stream apps or is it the media player, I asked cos I just got wd play media player, I read that amazon has a media player I just wanted to ask your overall feel for it. I use roku is okay but I was looking for a better player yet. any news on kvnv launch date ? Ed


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> aero1 i just saw your avatar you list amazon prime as one of your stream apps or is it the media player, I asked cos I just got wd play media player, I read that amazon has a media player I just wanted to ask your overall feel for it. I use roku is okay but I was looking for a better player yet. any news on kvnv launch date ? Ed


i use amazon on the roku. i had an amazon fire tv but didnt like it so i returned it even though the fire tv streams amazon prime in 1080p while the roku only does 720p. Tivo is coming out with an amazon prime app, hopefully its better than the roku one.


----------



## uhfyagi

Txs for quick reply, like I said I bought a WD play which is better on playing movies, especially if you got different type of movie files ei mp4;mov.roku is very limited in that respect, roku plays 1080i also I have a fast internet connection thru time warner maxx.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> Txs for quick reply, like I said I bought a WD play which is better on playing movies, especially if you got different type of movie files ei mp4;mov.roku is very limited in that respect, roku plays 1080i also I have a fast internet connection thru time warner maxx.


i use plex to play local movies, works great with rokus and other devices. so you know, although you have roku set to 1080p, the amazon app on the roku will only play 720p encodes.


----------



## uhfyagi

I heard Plex before,I'm not sure what is Plex? I use netflix and YouTube and movies I trade on p2p


----------



## dstoffa

uhfyagi said:


> I heard Plex before,I'm not sure what is Plex? I use netflix and YouTube and movies I trade on p2p


PLEX is a media server you install on your PC to stream content over your LAN to your Roku and other TV viewing devices.
I too, use it to stream local content from my PC to my HDTV.


----------



## uhfyagi

Am I the only person in NY that doesn't know what flex is  I read Plex.com you pay to store your files? Then you stream from there? I'm not trying to be funny, is that it?


----------



## LenL

*Plex*

I also did not know what it was and now that I know what it is I know why I did not know what it was.


----------



## speedlaw

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey Len,
> 
> It is premature at this point to declare a VHF-Lo band antenna as not critical, be it in the NYC market or anywhere else.
> 
> The final repacking of the TV bands has not yet occurred. Unfortunately, if any repacking occurs, it will likely result in an additional loss of available RF channels from the UHF band to broadcasters and ultimately OTA viewers. In that distasteful event, some broadcasters - perhaps even network O&Os - may find themselves contemplating a move to VHF-Lo.
> 
> Therefore, it would be more cost-effective for OTA viewers presently seeking to install new antennas to prepare for this possibility. It would be somewhat costly and time-consuming to install a VHF-Hi/UHF combo antenna now, only to have to one day dismantle it and reinstall the somewhat more expensive and substantially larger VHF-Lo capable counterpart.
> 
> I feel you have to look ahead. Following the DTV transition in 2009, the VHF-Lo band was all but abandoned in the U.S. due to the impulse noise issues and their catastrophic effects on the ATSC signals. Almost immediately afterward, viewers discovered problems receiving stations on the VHF-Hi band, resulting in viewer complaints to station engineers. These newly found vulnerabilities for ATSC signals in the VHF band resulted in station owners seeking displacement to the UHF band, if possible.
> 
> No sooner was the DTV transition complete, then came the treasury department's desires to sell off MORE of the UHF band to private mobile carriers to use for expansion of fee-for-service mobile broadband services. After back-and-forth between the NAB, independent broadcasters, mobile carriers, and the FCC, an incentive auction plan that was more fair to broadcasters than originally drafted was signed into law by congress. Suddenly, the TV bands appear they will be shrunk once again, thus creating a renewed interest in bands and channels that once were undesirable, but now seem less so because it is either them or nothing.
> 
> At the end of 2009, there was only one VHF-Lo television channel broadcasting in the New York City market and one in the Philadelphia market. As things presently look, at the end of this year, 2014, there will be two, maybe three, VHF-Lo television channels broadcasting in the New York City market and three in the Philadelphia market. By my count, that constitutes a crucial need for a VHF-Lo band antenna, seeing as those five once undesirable and vacant channels are now quickly being occupied.
> 
> 
> Oh, if it's a choice between chimney/roof mount or an attic mount installation, I believe you go for the chimney/roof mount, and include an electronic rotor. But many people are disenfranchised because they either cannot access the rooftop or cannot find someone who is knowledgeable and/or willing to perform the installation. This was not a problem back in the pre-cable days you speak of, but it is today.


+1. I put up a far fringe antenna back in analog days. It is full U/VHF, and while I have occasionally thought to pull it down and put up a more modern (smaller) high V and UHF antenna, I haven't. In NY, 7, 11 and 13 are all on VHF high, and I can see channel 3 but not lock on it with my better ATSC tuner. Since the antenna works very well, I'm not touching it, if at all, till this all shakes out.

Antennas...as much metal, as high up, as possible.....radio hams know its not often the power output, or quality of radio, as much as it is about the antenna.....

If you are constrained, be experimental. At UHF wavelengths, a four foot difference can mean lock or no lock.

On a slightly different topic, I find streaming Hulu and Netflix works best through a Sony Blu Ray player....


----------



## uhfyagi

speedlaw said:


> +1. I put up a far fringe antenna back in analog days. It is full U/VHF, and while I have occasionally thought to pull it down and put up a more modern (smaller) high V and UHF antenna, I haven't. In NY, 7, 11 and 13 are all on VHF high, and I can see channel 3 but not lock on it with my better ATSC tuner. Since the antenna works very well, I'm not touching it, if at all, till this all shakes out.
> 
> Antennas...as much metal, as high up, as possible.....radio hams know its not often the power output, or quality of radio, as much as it is about the antenna.....
> 
> If you are constrained, be experimental. At UHF wavelengths, a four foot difference can mean lock or no lock.
> 
> On a slightly different topic, I find streaming Hulu and Netflix works best through a Sony Blu Ray player....


speedlaw you say you can see ch3 but dont get a lock, I dont see any signal on 3, there is no signal on box you probably picking up another ch3 or ch2 which is wkob, I do get this channel consistently too bad there is nothing worthwhile to watch there.


----------



## dstoffa

uhfyagi said:


> Am I the only person in NY that doesn't know what flex is  I read Plex.com you pay to store your files? Then you stream from there? I'm not trying to be funny, is that it?


Well, the Media Center used to be free if you installed it before a certain date... It might be $5 to activate it for a new Roku.

That being written, if you never plan to access your media outside your home, there is no reason to store anything on anyone else's server. I have no intention of doing this, but I think you can leave your server running and access the content mounted by it via the WAN using a plex dot com account... kind of like pc anywhere...


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> Am I the only person in NY that doesn't know what flex is  I read Plex.com you pay to store your files? Then you stream from there? I'm not trying to be funny, is that it?





LenL said:


> I also did not know what it was and now that I know what it is I know why I did not know what it was.


Plex is a server and client software in order to watch your media on all sorts of devices. you install the free server software on a computer, tell it where your movies and what not are and it will organize it in a nice way.

next you install the client software on the same (or other pc), it connects to the server and it allows you to browse and play all your media from your home or away.

all of this is free.

you have the option to pay for other clients for smartphones, roku, etc so you can play your media off the server from your home or away.

you also have the option to pay a one time fee or monthly fee in order to get more features free apps for the roku and android ($5 each if you dont have plexpass) like media syncing, sharing libraries with other people, storing your media on cloud services, etc.


----------



## Aero 1

WWOR went down last night for me and its still down. barely getting any signal strength. anyone else seeing this?


----------



## Aero 1

Aero 1 said:


> WWOR went down last night for me and its still down. barely getting any signal strength. anyone else seeing this?


now its back to normal. Trip's graphs show the problem.

http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WWOR-TV


----------



## Trip in VA

Obviously the backup transmitter they were on is easier to receive at the Fair Lawn location. I wonder if that was the backup on ESB or on First Mountain.

- Trip


----------



## speedlaw

uhfyagi said:


> speedlaw you say you can see ch3 but dont get a lock, I dont see any signal on 3, there is no signal on box you probably picking up another ch3 or ch2 which is wkob, I do get this channel consistently too bad there is nothing worthwhile to watch there.


got it. The Tivo box says it is RF channel 2....I'm not really caring, just as someone who had an HDTV tuner before transition, when it was still experimental, the content of the signal is less important. I so miss TV DX......I recall a few nights where I got all the classic channels...all the way up to 12, but that was a rare opening....

I'm still getting weak signal from CBS DT...at my location. All other stations are 70-90 +.....and WNYE is still gone......


----------



## LenL

AERO 1,

Thanks for taking the time to explain Plex etc. 

Seeing as I only use a landline phone and just use a TRAC phone for emergencies I don't have any use for PLEX. Besides I enjoy my 55 inch LED TV and big speaker system I would not want to watch any digital content whether HD or not on something smaller. Does not make sense in my situation.

I too still have no 25.1. Trip do you have any more info?

I also lost 9.1 last night but I have not checked today. 

There are supposedly major solar flare eruptions going on again.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> AERO 1,
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to explain Plex etc.
> 
> Seeing as I only use a landline phone and just use a TRAC phone for emergencies I don't have any use for PLEX. Besides I enjoy my 55 inch LED TV and big speaker system I would not want to watch any digital content whether HD or not on something smaller. Does not make sense in my situation.
> 
> I


you're welcome. you surely have internet access since you post here, all Plex is computer software for the server that needs internet access in order to download metadata, the rest sits inside your network. you would use a roku on your tv in order to use plex or if you have a samsung or lg smart tv, they have plex clients in their app stores.


----------



## veedon

speedlaw said:


> got it. The Tivo box says it is RF channel 2....I'm not really caring, just as someone who had an HDTV tuner before transition, when it was still experimental, the content of the signal is less important. I so miss TV DX......I recall a few nights where I got all the classic channels...all the way up to 12, but that was a rare opening....
> 
> I'm still getting weak signal from CBS DT...at my location. All other stations are 70-90 +.....and WNYE is still gone......


There could in some atmospheric conditions be competing signals from WKOB-LD and KJWP (Delaware). The rabbitears site has a report of that:

http://www.rabbitears.info/coverage.php?appid=1357397


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> Kvnv should be online this week 🌝


guess that didn't happen.


----------



## d3193

I am wondering what is the target audience for the 480i subchannels. Almost all of them are broadcasting 4x3 (with the possible exception of Cozi - not sure about that). Yet, we must have reached a point where the majority of TVs in use are now 16x9, so that a widescreen movie becomes letterboxed within a pillarbox - a tiny image. 

Is the decision on whether to broadcast SD in 4x3 or 16x9 made by the network (e.g. Grit, Movies, Cozi) or by the broadcast station? Does the FCC say anything about this (such as requiring 480i to be 4x3)?

I do understand that people with older TVs using a converter box would be the ones suffering from a tiny image if the broadcasters were to go 16x9 (and of course they likely have a smaller screen).


----------



## NYC10033

d3193 said:


> I do understand that people with older TVs using a converter box would be the ones suffering from a tiny image if the broadcasters were to go 16x9 (and of course they likely have a smaller screen).


I have a Zenith DTT901 and it has a Zoom function which fills the screen of my 4:3 RCA TV - cutting off a bit from the sides - but it works GREAT when I watch old TV/Movies on 4.2, 5.2, etc.


----------



## NYC10033

Anyone have access to the techs running 25.x? When will 25.x be running at full power again?

I lost 7.x, 11.x 13.x 25.x several months ago. I'm near the George Washington Bridge and used to get those channels quite well with an indoor antenna near the window.

FYI, I built a VHF antenna using 300 ohm twin lead hot melt glued to a wooden stick, using a 300 Ohm to 75 Ohm transformer, cut to length for channel 11, and it doesn't help at all.

http://users.wfu.edu/matthews/misc/dipole.html

I also bought a Radio Shack Antenna in-line amplifier, and it worked for a few months.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11113014

But it doesn't help at all now. I think it went bad. How can I test whether it works? It doesn't increase the signal level any more according to my Zenith OTA converter.


----------



## LenL

*Nyc10033*

Welcome to the club of OTA Viewers who can no longer receive 25.1.


I guess they don't care about losing viewers!


----------



## d3193

d3193 said:


> I am wondering what is the target audience for the 480i subchannels. Almost all of them are broadcasting 4x3 (with the possible exception of Cozi - not sure about that).



I checked. Cozi on 4.2 is broadcasting 16x9. I still wonder why the others are not.


----------



## veedon

d3193 said:


> I checked. Cozi on 4.2 is broadcasting 16x9. I still wonder why the others are not.



Some people say that those old standard definition shows really should be displayed as 4:3, that any attempt to convert them to 16:9 distorts the image too much. I have mixed feelings about it. For some shows, the distortion is very obvious, but for others, using the whole screen justifies the distortion. The shows that were shot on film generally look better than the ones that were videotaped.


----------



## hobojoe

Receiving 25.1 @93%


----------



## d3193

veedon said:


> Some people say that those old standard definition shows really should be displayed as 4:3, that any attempt to convert them to 16:9 distorts the image too much. I have mixed feelings about it. For some shows, the distortion is very obvious, but for others, using the whole screen justifies the distortion. The shows that were shot on film generally look better than the ones that were videotaped.


For me, stretching a 4x3 image to ft a 16x9 frame is unforgivable. Geometric image distortion cannot be justified. I'm surprised that no performers have yet tried to sue over being made to look short and fat!

What my post was about is whether SD 480i broadcasts should be widescreen or not. 

Cozi on 4.2 broadcasts in 16x9. But all its material that was originally 4x3 is shown in the correct aspect ratio within the 16x9 frame - black bars on either side; there is no stretching. Shows that were originated as 16x9 fill the screen. 

Channels such as Grit and Escape get it so wrong, you have to wonder if a real person is making any decisions. They show *everything* within a 16x9 letterbox, which is broadcast in a 4x3 frame. On a modern TV display we see a letterboxed, pillarboxed, tiny image. To make things worse, much of what they show was originated as 4X3 - so they stretch it to fit. A small, letterboxed, pillarboxed, distorted picture. 
Does anyone in charge monitor what they are broadcasting? I find it unwatchable.


----------



## veedon

d3193 said:


> For me, stretching a 4x3 image to ft a 16x9 frame is unforgivable. Geometric image distortion cannot be justified. I'm surprised that no performers have yet tried to sue over being made to look short and fat!
> 
> What my post was about is whether SD 480i broadcasts should be widescreen or not.
> 
> Cozi on 4.2 broadcasts in 16x9. But all its material that was originally 4x3 is shown in the correct aspect ratio within the 16x9 frame - black bars on either side; there is no stretching. Shows that were originated as 16x9 fill the screen.
> 
> ...


OK, so Cozi puts the pillar bars into its feed. But suppose that you're 60, 70, or 80 years old and know nothing at all about aspect ratios other than that there is a button that you can press that will usually make the image fill the whole screen. You've been used to standard definition almost your whole life, you think that "digital" and "high def" are a bit overhyped, and you just want the show to fill the whole doggone screen. If you set your TV setting to 16:9 on Cozi, do the pillar bars disappear, or do they just stick around?

Remember, a lot of people are not techies. They just want simplicity, and they don't like a lot of change.


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> Welcome to the club of OTA Viewers who can no longer receive 25.1.
> 
> 
> I guess they don't care about losing viewers!


Sure every station cares but 90% of viewers are via cable and they are a non-commercial station so ratings aren't as vital.


----------



## uhfyagi

nyctveng said:


> Sure every station cares but 90% of viewers are via cable and they are a non-commercial station so ratings aren't as vital.


has anyone else noticed that wnye tv25 signal fade has occured just about the same time that kvnv was suppose to be broadcasting. july or thereabouts, I don't think is a coincidence their relocation to 4x has been turbulant and distracting, hoping that kvnv does not show up, like len has said all along this station is purely ludicrous.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> same here, but i wonder if WNYE problems has to do with KVNV? im just speculating and the reason is because look at this thread:
> 
> http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/2178697-new-tv-station-finally-coming-around.html
> 
> this guy says he works for them, took down "the top antenna" and will be installing the KVNV antenna in the next couple of weeks. Just posted and asked him. lets see if there is a response.





nyctveng said:


> Sure every station cares but 90% of viewers are via cable and they are a non-commercial station so ratings aren't as vital.


There are too many new channels that show old reruns or movies that no one wants to watch ever again. is that what ota is just an old trick pony, please give us new shows, I know you're gonna say it cost lots of money to make new shows, Not really if you have new material, how bout a technology show or some sports programming. I think that ota is an albatross.


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> There are too many new channels that show old reruns or movies that no one wants to watch ever again. is that what ota is just an old trick pony, please give us new shows, I know you're gonna say it cost lots of money to make new shows, Not really if you have new material, how bout a technology show or some sports programming. I think that ota is an albatross.



NBC tried Non Stop format in many major cities and ABC tried Live Well. They were both original content and no one watched. G4 had tech programming and no one watched. Most shows these days don't last because they are competing with 300 channels, youtube, and netflix.


----------



## Aero 1

according to these people: https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeG..._id=677996932291285&offset=0&total_comments=3

KVNV will probably launch on the 15th and mirror their Philly stations programming.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> according to these people: https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeG..._id=677996932291285&offset=0&total_comments=3
> 
> KVNV will probably launch on the 15th and mirror their Philly stations programming.


Highly doubt that will happen FCC will drag their feet on this issue, just like Comcast/time warner, what we should be asking is there any profit for them on this decision? not really.


----------



## LATV

There is a 30 period they have to wait for before they can turn on the transmitter. They have to notify medical facilities who might be using the channel for wireless medical devices.


----------



## Achromatter

Hi All,

I'm new here, but have been visiting occasionally since the whole DTV changeover.

I haven't been able to receive any programming info/listings for WCBS(channel 2 in NYC) since around this past weekend, not sure when it stopped, but it was there last Thursday(09/04/2014). All other channels that I watch seem fine, and have displayed listings on both my Channelmaster 7000pal and TVix PVR M-6620N DVRs. Only WCBS/channel 2 is completely blank on the TVix and says no information on the CM-7000pal.

Anyone else having this problem in the NYC area? I've never seen this happen, for so long, since the DTV cutover. I've occasionally had no data for one or a couple of channels, but that uually only lasted for a day or so. This has been blank since at least Sunday night(09/07/2014).

Best regards,

Joe


----------



## Aero 1

KVNV / MeTV 3 is officially on hold for a few months:

https://www.facebook.com/metv2/post..._id=802088033177348&offset=0&total_comments=1


----------



## LenL

Achromatter said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm new here, but have been visiting occasionally since the whole DTV changeover.
> 
> I haven't been able to receive any programming info/listings for WCBS(channel 2 in NYC) since around this past weekend, not sure when it stopped, but it was there last Thursday(09/04/2014). All other channels that I watch seem fine, and have displayed listings on both my Channelmaster 7000pal and TVix PVR M-6620N DVRs. Only WCBS/channel 2 is completely blank on the TVix and says no information on the CM-7000pal.
> 
> Anyone else having this problem in the NYC area? I've never seen this happen, for so long, since the DTV cutover. I've occasionally had no data for one or a couple of channels, but that uually only lasted for a day or so. This has been blank since at least Sunday night(09/07/2014).
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Joe



I have not seen any issues with my TV AND DTVPAL DVR. Maybe you should delete and rescan the station or do a complete reset of your device.


----------



## AloEuro

Achromatter said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm new here, but have been visiting occasionally since the whole DTV changeover.
> 
> I haven't been able to receive any programming info/listings for WCBS(channel 2 in NYC) since around this past weekend, not sure when it stopped, but it was there last Thursday(09/04/2014). All other channels that I watch seem fine, and have displayed listings on both my Channelmaster 7000pal and TVix PVR M-6620N DVRs. Only WCBS/channel 2 is completely blank on the TVix and says no information on the CM-7000pal.
> 
> Anyone else having this problem in the NYC area? I've never seen this happen, for so long, since the DTV cutover. I've occasionally had no data for one or a couple of channels, but that uually only lasted for a day or so. This has been blank since at least Sunday night(09/07/2014).
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Joe


*Achromatter*
Full Scan trasferred ch2 CBS to ch.33, another scan brought it back to ch.2. When ch.42 broadcasts you may have problem to find it on ch. 2, punch in 33 to get CBS there


----------



## LenL

*Mea Culpa*

Just checked at 1 PM and there is nothing showing in the guide for CBS 2.1. Just the usual "No Information".


----------



## hobojoe

I'm guessing there's an easy answer to my question but I honestly don't know it. I'm exactly 11 miles NW of the Empire State Builing. I have my antenna aimed at the Roxborough antenna farm in Philly. I get CBS 2 24 hours and I get CBS 3 50-50. I enjoy watching the NFL games out of Philadelphia. my question is will my Philly signal disappear when this NY 3 lights up? am I wrong in assuming no because of different frequencies? thanks.


----------



## LenL

LenL said:


> Just checked at 1 PM and there is nothing showing in the guide for CBS 2.1. Just the usual "No Information".


 
Just an update on this issue. I tried a soft reset on my DTVPAL DVR and it had no effect on the problem. I then went through the new installation menu process and the guide issue was fixed and 2.1 was populated.


----------



## uhfyagi

Kyw is on real Chan 34 so both CBS won't clash with each other. Can you receive txf fox affiliate?


----------



## hobojoe

fox29 breaks up a lot. I get cbs3, nbc10, and abc6 solid when it's humid out. I installed the antenna in the spring so I don't know if reception will improve when the leaves fall off. my9 and cw are a no go.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> Kyw is on real Chan 34 so both CBS won't clash with each other. Can you receive txf fox affiliate?


KYW-TV Philadelphia actually broadcasts on RF channel 26. It is WCAU Philadelphia that broadcasts on RF channel 34. Meanwhile, WCBS-TV New York broadcasts on RF channel 33.



hobojoe said:


> I'm guessing there's an easy answer to my question but I honestly don't know it. I'm exactly 11 miles NW of the Empire State Builing. I have my antenna aimed at the Roxborough antenna farm in Philly. I get CBS 2 24 hours and I get CBS 3 50-50. I enjoy watching the NFL games out of Philadelphia. my question is will my Philly signal disappear when this NY 3 lights up? am I wrong in assuming no because of different frequencies? thanks.


When KVNV signs-on RF channel 3, there will be no interference to RF channel 26. What you _may_ encounter, depending on how the FCC decides the PSIP complaint lodged by the owners of WFSB Hartford, is a channel lineup consisting of two channel 3s, the first of which will likely be KVNV given its lower RF channel assignment.

Furthermore, your reception of WCBS-TV should not change in any manner.



hobojoe said:


> fox29 breaks up a lot. I get cbs3, nbc10, and abc6 solid when it's humid out. I installed the antenna in the spring so I don't know if reception will improve when the leaves fall off. my9 and cw are a no go.


I am surprised that you are not receiving channels 11 or 38 from New York City. I cannot immediately think of any on-channel or adjacent-channel conflicts that would impede their reception from your location. The only thought I have is that your antenna may be oriented in such a manner that is simply a dead-zone for those two channels. *Nonetheless, if I were in your situation, I would not adjust the antenna.* When dealing with OTA signals, sometimes you have to sacrifice some signals in order to receive many others. In your situation, I would say the trade-off is well worth it.

Humid weather conditions likely enhance existing tropospheric ducting conditions. Additionally, the New Jersey counties of Bergen and Hudson usually favor tropospheric ducting conditions that, when present, enhance signals from the areas around Philadelphia, PA. and Atlantic City, NJ.

I hope that your reception of Philadelphia signals improves come Autumn. I am not overly confident that it will, because tropo often has a lot to do with this type of long-distance reception, but I would hold out to see what happens. Please do report back here then and share your reception conditions at that time.


----------



## uhfyagi

Hobojoe most of philly stations come in strong I know a guy up in wantage nj which is extreme northwest nj he gets a few stations from Philly.


----------



## Achromatter

Thanks for the replies LenL and Aero 1,

I'll try the reset on the DTV-pal, but the TVix isn't as intuitive to use, so I'll likely just try to delete and re-install the channel on that one. Any Ideas why this may have happened?

Like I mentioned, I have lost guide information on a few channels before, but it usually only lasted a day or so, and then was back to normal without having to do anything.


----------



## rcodey

hobojoe said:


> fox29 breaks up a lot. I get cbs3, nbc10, and abc6 solid when it's humid out. I installed the antenna in the spring so I don't know if reception will improve when the leaves fall off. my9 and cw are a no go.


I'm in West Orange and my reception of Philly TV is more reliable in the summer than in the winter .


----------



## hobojoe

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> KYW-TV Philadelphia actually broadcasts on RF channel 26. It is WCAU Philadelphia that broadcasts on RF channel 34. Meanwhile, WCBS-TV New York broadcasts on RF channel 33.
> 
> 
> When KVNV signs-on RF channel 3, there will be no interference to RF channel 26. What you _may_ encounter, depending on how the FCC decides the PSIP complaint lodged by the owners of WFSB Hartford, is a channel lineup consisting of two channel 3s, the first of which will likely be KVNV given its lower RF channel assignment.
> 
> Furthermore, your reception of WCBS-TV should not change in any manner.
> 
> 
> I am surprised that you are not receiving channels 11 or 38 from New York City. I cannot immediately think of any on-channel or adjacent-channel conflicts that would impede their reception from your location. The only thought I have is that your antenna may be oriented in such a manner that is simply a dead-zone for those two channels. *Nonetheless, if I were in your situation, I would not adjust the antenna.* When dealing with OTA signals, sometimes you have to sacrifice some signals in order to receive many others. In your situation, I would say the trade-off is well worth it.
> 
> Humid weather conditions likely enhance existing tropospheric ducting conditions. Additionally, the New Jersey counties of Bergen and Hudson usually favor tropospheric ducting conditions that, when present, enhance signals from the areas around Philadelphia, PA. and Atlantic City, NJ.
> 
> I hope that your reception of Philadelphia signals improves come Autumn. I am not overly confident that it will, because tropo often has a lot to do with this type of long-distance reception, but I would hold out to see what happens. Please do report back here then and share your reception conditions at that time.


oh, I get my9 and cw out of nyc 100%, I was referring to their philly counterparts. yes, I won't ever adjust the antenna. it took me weeks of trial and error to find this sweet spot. thanks for the input, fellas.


----------



## uhfyagi

Can you tell me what antenna are using to receive philly stations from your location it must be at least 80 miles distance. Myself I use AD 91xg to get connecticut, my furthest reliable station is metv or wzme out of Shelton,ct 57 miles on tvfool.


----------



## Achromatter

*It's Back*



LenL said:


> Just an update on this issue. I tried a soft reset on my DTVPAL DVR and it had no effect on the problem. I then went through the new installation menu process and the guide issue was fixed and 2.1 was populated.


Well, this morning I sat down resigned to, and intending to, re-run the installation of the DTV-Pal, but thought I'd take a look at the guide to see if anything changed, and it sure did. All WCBS-2 program guide info was there again. I guess it was an issue with WCBS???? This is by far the longest any one channel's guide info was missing since the DTV cut-over.

But on sad note, when I went to check if it was also back on my TVix, I found it wont boot past the "wait" on the display and the 1080P icon coming on. It then just shuts off. I tried pulling power for several minutes, several times and re-started at least a dozen more times, removed and reseated the HDD, but no joy

I wonder how long it'll take to figure this one out?...................


----------



## hobojoe

uhfyagi said:


> Can you tell me what antenna are using to receive philly stations from your location it must be at least 80 miles distance. Myself I use AD 91xg to get connecticut, my furthest reliable station is metv or wzme out of Shelton,ct 57 miles on tvfool.


channel master 5020


----------



## Aero 1

MEtv 3 delayed to Mid 2015?

https://www.facebook.com/TheBigJoeHenryVarietyShow/posts/629673103820232



> Hey Guys, as most of you know we have been on The New Channel 2 in Philadelphia Sunday nights at 10pm with our TV show The Big Joe Henry Variety Show. Our friends at MeTV have been working diligently in finding a time slot that would best present our show. In addition, *they have been working feverishly trying to get a brand new Channel 3 up and on the air in the New York market. We were scheduled to be on the air in New York by July. Due to unforeseen circumstances the New York station will not be up and running until mid 2015*. As a result of those circumstances I have decided to put the broadcast of our show on a temporary hiatus. We look forward to producing new shows, and invite you to join us this Wednesday night 9/17 at McLoone’s Supper Club in Asbury Park as we tape our 20th and 21rst shows. We will continue to support our friends at MeTV and look forward to being back on the air in Philadelphia and New York soon. As always thanks so much for your support and to keep informed on the latest developments please check in with us at bigjoehenry.com and on Facebook at The Big Joe Henry Variety Show. My Best, Big Joe Henry


----------



## Alexvd

Hello I have a Channel Master 4228 on a mast that is about 40ft up on the roof , 19.8 miles out from the ESB in Westfield, NJ. There is about a 20ft run of Quad Shield cable with no splitter or amp connected. I get all UHF channels fine with excellent signal strength. However I have problems with VHF 7.1 WABC. The signal strength is right at 40% and just at the edge of being able to tune. In fact when it rains I guess due to multipath it comes in fine. No ability to tweak or rotate the antenna has yielded improved signal strength. 

I bought a Channel Master 7778 VHF and UHF amplifier mast mount. Connecting it overpowers my UHF channels and I lose some of them. So this is not a great option. 

Can people please share how they solved this. Anyway to just boost the VHF signal inline. I really dont want to have to combine a second antenna (yagi) to just pull in one channel.


----------



## Aero 1

Alexvd said:


> Hello I have a Channel Master 4228 on a mast that is about 40ft up on the roof , 19.8 miles out from the ESB in Westfield, NJ. There is about a 20ft run of Quad Shield cable with no splitter or amp connected. I get all UHF channels fine with excellent signal strength. However I have problems with VHF 7.1 WABC. The signal strength is right at 40% and just at the edge of being able to tune. In fact when it rains I guess due to multipath it comes in fine. No ability to tweak or rotate the antenna has yielded improved signal strength.
> 
> I bought a Channel Master 7778 VHF and UHF amplifier mast mount. Connecting it overpowers my UHF channels and I lose some of them. So this is not a great option.
> 
> Can people please share how they solved this. Anyway to just boost the VHF signal inline. I really dont want to have to combine a second antenna (yagi) to just pull in one channel.


the 4228 is a UHF antenna although it says it does vhf. you need a vhf element. something like the antennas direct CS5 that you would join with your 4228. you dont need an amp, you need vhf elements.


----------



## Alexvd

Aero 1 said:


> the 4228 is a UHF antenna although it says it does vhf. you need a vhf element. something like the antennas direct CS5 that you would join with your 4228. you dont need an amp, you need vhf elements.


Thanks for the quick reply. So i would just mount this below the CM 4228 and than combine the signal into one run. 

Is it that simple?


----------



## Aero 1

Alexvd said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. So i would just mount this below the CM 4228 and than combine the signal into one run.
> 
> Is it that simple?


yes, its that simple and it comes with an uhf/vhf combiner. i have one below an antennas direct db4 on my chimney.


----------



## uhfyagi

your overdriven your hd4228 antenna get rid of the preamp, you need a separate vhf antenna for ch 7/11/13. get one these for vhf http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=CS600&ss=292766 you need a combiner for both antennas here is one that i use for my antennas http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=UVSJ&d=Pico-Macom-UVSJ-UHF-VHF-Band-SeparatorCombiner-for-Antenna-%28UVSJ%29&c=Signal%20Combiners&sku= it has less than 1 db insertion loss. let us know how it goes


----------



## uhfyagi

aero1 nice picture of your setup, i'm viewing your chimmey mount, is it a rohn type. I bought a winegard brand from crutchfield, i paid like $12 it goes for $30 at ebay or solidsignal. is really sturdy I have my antenna at 15 feet over the roofline, I was surprise just raising the mast 5 feet I can get additional channel also signal is stronger than at 10 ft, too bad metv won't be in nyc till next summer. I know you were ready for premiere, you said you bought a low-band vhf antenna for kvnv, it sound to me like fcc put this in the back burner. cu


----------



## roseha

That's such a drag about ME-TV being delayed again in New York City. Everyone else in the country seems to have it already. I wish they'd just signed onto a strong UHF channel. As it is I have to put up with seeing it over Time Warner's "switched" channel system on my Tivo, so when my tuning adapter goes on the blink I miss a number of my late night favorite shows being recorded.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> aero1 nice picture of your setup, i'm viewing your chimmey mount, is it a rohn type. I bought a winegard brand from crutchfield, i paid like $12 it goes for $30 at ebay or solidsignal. is really sturdy I have my antenna at 15 feet over the roofline, I was surprise just raising the mast 5 feet I can get additional channel also signal is stronger than at 10 ft, too bad metv won't be in nyc till next summer. I know you were ready for premiere, you said you bought a low-band vhf antenna for kvnv, it sound to me like fcc put this in the back burner. cu


thanks. i dont know what a rohn type is, but this is the one i got: http://amzn.com/B0029U2XE0

yea, i got a lo vhf antenna at the beginning of the year and installed it in the attic in order to beat the heat for the june launch, but we know how that went. I joined it with the existing two antennas and it increased the vhf signal significantly on the other channels. now just have to wait until next year and see if the attic mount works.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> thanks. i dont know what a rohn type is, but this is the one i got: http://amzn.com/B0029U2XE0
> 
> yea, i got a lo vhf antenna at the beginning of the year and installed it in the attic in order to beat the heat for the june launch, but we know how that went. I joined it with the existing two antennas and it increased the vhf signal significantly on the other channels. now just have to wait until next year and see if the attic mount works.


You can now, wkob ch2, do you receive their signal? Usually reverts to ch42 on most stbs.


----------



## AvidHiker

Alexvd said:


> Hello I have a Channel Master 4228 on a mast that is about 40ft up on the roof , 19.8 miles out from the ESB in Westfield, NJ. There is about a 20ft run of Quad Shield cable with no splitter or amp connected. I get all UHF channels fine with excellent signal strength. However I have problems with VHF 7.1 WABC. The signal strength is right at 40% and just at the edge of being able to tune. In fact when it rains I guess due to multipath it comes in fine. No ability to tweak or rotate the antenna has yielded improved signal strength.
> 
> I bought a Channel Master 7778 VHF and UHF amplifier mast mount. Connecting it overpowers my UHF channels and I lose some of them. So this is not a great option.
> 
> Can people please share how they solved this. Anyway to just boost the VHF signal inline. I really dont want to have to combine a second antenna (yagi) to just pull in one channel.


Hello fellow Westfielder - FYI, I have the very same VHF antenna Aero 1 is using (Antennas Direct C5), and for the moment it simply hangs below an east-facing second floor window behind some bushes. Even in that terrible location, it pulls in every station from 2-13 (and plenty more) with just a small amplifier (Winegard LNA-100).


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> You can now, wkob ch2, do you receive their signal? Usually reverts to ch42 on most stbs.


I'm in a location where it is very, very difficult for me to get wkob due to its low power but i can now see a signal in the low 30's with the lo antenna where as before i got nothing.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> I'm in a location where it is very, very difficult for me to get wkob due to its low power but i can now see a signal in the low 30's with the lo antenna where as before i got nothing.


your location probably is multipath prone being in lower location than surrounding area, you probably better off using a yagi type antenna for multipath, i use only yagi type; I'm surrounded by buildings I don't have line of sight to esb or any stations, I aim my antenna to a building that bounces the signal to my antenna. I still get a strong signal from my location for pbs out of connecticut, at night i can receive an additional stations one vhf one uhf.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> your location probably is multipath prone being in lower location than surrounding area, you probably better off using a yagi type antenna for multipath, i use only yagi type; I'm surrounded by buildings I don't have line of sight to esb or any stations, I aim my antenna to a building that bounces the signal to my antenna. I still get a strong signal from my location for pbs out of connecticut, at night i can receive an additional stations one vhf one uhf.


no, Im to far away and i do have a yagi for lo vhf. the radiation pattern doesnt reach me and my location is at the tail end of the pattern.


----------



## veedon

roseha said:


> That's such a drag about ME-TV being delayed again in New York City. Everyone else in the country seems to have it already. I wish they'd just signed onto a strong UHF channel. As it is I have to put up with seeing it over Time Warner's "switched" channel system on my Tivo, so when my tuning adapter goes on the blink I miss a number of my late night favorite shows being recorded.



Why are they having so much trouble launching? It can't just be the need to wait for the FCC's decision on a virtual channel number, can it? Maybe the company just underestimated the time it would need to get the tower working.

On the Me-TV Facebook page, commenters from Philly are always complaining about KJWP preempting Me-TV programming, but I don't think those viewers understand that local affiliates have to be able to run some local programming to get local advertising revenue.


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> On the Me-TV Facebook page, commenters from Philly are always complaining about KJWP preempting Me-TV programming, but I don't think those viewers understand that local affiliates have to be able to run some local programming to get local advertising revenue.


TV stations are required to air some E/I programming to retain their license. I'm sure there are more viewers for MeTV content than whatever crap E/I programming is being aired so it's not a ad revenue issue.


----------



## veedon

nyctveng said:


> TV stations are required to air some E/I programming to retain their license. I'm sure there are more viewers for MeTV content than whatever crap E/I programming is being aired so it's not a ad revenue issue.



The complaints were not about E/I programming. The station was running some kind of local variety show on Sunday nights, and some of the complainers wanted to see the Me-TV programming instead.


----------



## uhfyagi

veedon said:


> The complaints were not about E/I programming. The station was running some kind of local variety show on Sunday nights, and tsome of the complainers wanted to see the Me-TV programming instead.


most of metv affiliates run the metv lineup with no hiccups. is just these 2 stations that are messing around.


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> most of metv affiliates run the metv lineup with no hiccups. is just these 2 stations that are messing around.



But most of the Me-TV affiliates in large markets have other networks as their primary affiliation and only carry Me-TV as a secondary affiliation, on a subchannel. These two stations are trying something new, having Me-TV as their primary affiliation and trying to get carriage on cable systems in huge markets. Don't you think the stations might want to attract some local advertising dollars?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*PMCM TV, LLC.'s KVNV Alternate PSIP Proposal*

PMCM TV, LLC. (KVNV) has countered Meredith Corporation (WFSB) with an Alternate PSIP Proposal.

Per the FCC Media Bureau filing: "PMCM proposes that KVNV(TV) be assigned a two-part virtual PSIP channel 3.10 (with any additional program streams eventually transmitted on KVNV(TV) identified as 3.11, 3.12, etc.), while WFSB(TV) would retain virtual channel 3.1 through 3.9." KVNV(TV) also has significant contour overlap with KYW-TV, RF channel 26, virtual channel 3, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, licensed to CBS Broadcasting Inc. Under PMCM’s proposal, KVNV(TV) would be available to over-the-air viewers exclusively on channels 3.10 (and 3.11, etc.) throughout its footprint. As cable systems typically do not employ two-part channel numbers, KVNV(TV) would request carriage on cable channel 3, except in Fairfield County, Connecticut."

The FCC published this proposal on September 12, 2014. They are seeking public comments, which can be submitted from October 14, 2014 through October 29, 2014. DA 14-1298 can be found here: http://www.fcc.gov/document/mb-announces-filing-alternative-psip-proposal-kvnvtv


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> PMCM TV, LLC. (KVNV) has countered Meredith Corporation (WFSB) with an Alternate PSIP Proposal.
> 
> Per the FCC Media Bureau filing: "PMCM proposes that KVNV(TV) be assigned a two-part virtual PSIP channel 3.10 (with any additional program streams eventually transmitted on KVNV(TV) identified as 3.11, 3.12, etc.), while WFSB(TV) would retain virtual channel 3.1 through 3.9." KVNV(TV) also has significant contour overlap with KYW-TV, RF channel 26, virtual channel 3, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, licensed to CBS Broadcasting Inc. Under PMCM’s proposal, KVNV(TV) would be available to over-the-air viewers exclusively on channels 3.10 (and 3.11, etc.) throughout its footprint. As cable systems typically do not employ two-part channel numbers, KVNV(TV) would request carriage on cable channel 3, except in Fairfield County, Connecticut."
> 
> The FCC published this proposal on September 12, 2014. They are seeking public comments, which can be submitted from October 14, 2014 through October 29, 2014. DA 14-1298 can be found here: http://www.fcc.gov/document/mb-announces-filing-alternative-psip-proposal-kvnvtv


Giacomo, this is ridicolous, why dont the FCC just pass an amendment use real channels no more psp, or virtual channels problems solved.


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## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> PMCM TV, LLC. (KVNV) has countered Meredith Corporation (WFSB) with an Alternate PSIP Proposal.
> 
> Per the FCC Media Bureau filing: "PMCM proposes that KVNV(TV) be assigned a two-part virtual PSIP channel 3.10 (with any additional program streams eventually transmitted on KVNV(TV) identified as 3.11, 3.12, etc.), while WFSB(TV) would retain virtual channel 3.1 through 3.9." KVNV(TV) also has significant contour overlap with KYW-TV, RF channel 26, virtual channel 3, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, licensed to CBS Broadcasting Inc. Under PMCM’s proposal, KVNV(TV) would be available to over-the-air viewers exclusively on channels 3.10 (and 3.11, etc.) throughout its footprint. As cable systems typically do not employ two-part channel numbers, KVNV(TV) would request carriage on cable channel 3, except in Fairfield County, Connecticut."
> 
> ...http://www.fcc.gov/document/mb-announces-filing-alternative-psip-proposal-kvnvtv


I like the proposal. It allows the new KVNV to be Channel 3 for all of its OTA viewers while still allowing WFSB and KYW to be Channel 3 both OTA and on cable systems in areas where those stations have historically marketed themselves as Channel 3.

The main objection will likely be that some OTA viewers could be misled into thinking that the KVNV feeds on 3.10, 3.11, etc. are subchannels belonging to station WFSB or subchannels belonging to station KYW. This could be remedied by requiring all of the stations to do station identification announcements (on all of their subchannels) that announce the call letters and maybe even announce the company that owns the station. (Wouldn't it be nice to know what company is responsible for the station?)


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## LATV

I am told that KVNV-TV 3 will be on the air on or before October 1st 2014.


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## Aero 1

LATV said:


> I am told that KVNV-TV 3 will be on the air on or before October 1st 2014.


by who? ill believe it when i see it. the station manager has given me 4 different dates in the past 5 months now.


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## LATV

A very close contact there.


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## Giacomo Siffredi

*Virtual Channels In Present-Day and Historical Usages*

Hey uhfyagi,


uhfyagi said:


> Giacomo, this is ridicolous, why dont the FCC just pass an amendment use real channels no more psp, or virtual channels problems solved.


I am inclined to agree with you. Mandating the use of the RF channel would eliminate this added conflict that arises from time to time, and eliminate viewer interruption when a station's PSIP generator fails or is improperly configured.

That being said, an amendment would be insufficient to address the issue, and any elimination of virtual channels from the present ATSC standard at this point would be impractical for broadcasters and viewers alike. Essentially, the concept to rely entirely on RF channel numbers, at present, is impossible.

*PRESENT-DAY NECESSITY FOR VIRTUAL CHANNELS*

As an example, let's look at WNYW New York. That station's pre-transition DTV channel was RF channel 44, and licensee FOX elected to remain on that channel post-transition. Presumably, FOX _could _have elected RF channel 5 for its post-transition operations. Its analog facility was licensed and operational, and FOX certainly would have had the funds to effectuate that outcome. But, also presumably, FOX, like other broadcasters, took note of the deficiencies of the VHF-Lo band for DTV operations, and realized that the RF channel which WNYW called home for over sixty years would soon be most inhospitable for broadcasting purposes. Consequently, FOX elected to remain on RF channel 44 following the June 2009 DTV transition.

Now, many people here on this forum will remember that during the year leading up to the transition, there existed much confusion amongst television viewers, both OTA and cable TV, regarding what would happen come 2009. The confusion remained so prevalent in late 2008, that President Barack Obama took the extraordinary step to delay the DTV transition from February 17, 2009 to June 12, 2009. There were many allegations that the FCC did not adequately educate the public, and the DTV converter box coupon program was automated and flawed. Many cable viewers felt they were also in danger of having their channels turned off as a result of the transition. Senior citizens, some of whom do not subscribe to pay TV as they generally have to be especially careful with their finances, were especially concerned and confused.

With all of this confusion and misinformation, just imagine the experience for FOX if they also had to explain to already concerned and confused viewers that FOX 5 would henceforth be known as FOX 44 or FOX NY, and would no longer be seen on channel 5.

Not only that, from a marketing perspective, many of these stations built a good portion of their reputation around their channel number. Much of that would have been sacrificed if they could not identify with a virtual channel number.

*HISTORICAL USAGES OF VIRTUAL CHANNELS*

From an historical perspective, virtual channel numbers have been used for over 35 years. The most obvious commercial use of virtual channels began in the late 1970s, when many cable television systems were expanded beyond 12 channels. To accomplish the upgrades, engineers expanded many cable system plants to utilize frequencies in the Midband spectrum with either nine TV channels within 121 MHz - 174 MHz or alternately fourteen TV channels within 91 MHz - 174 MHz. The Midband is that portion of the television spectrum that operates between VHF-Lo Channel 6 and VHF-Hi Channel 7. Cable TV operators use this spectrum despite the fact that this it is reserved by the FCC for other aural broadcast services, and the reason is because transmission through coaxial cable to designated subscribers does not create significant risk of interference to these other licensed services.

As an example, let's look at cable channel 14. That station's spectrum uses 121 MHz - 126 MHz. Per the North American band-plan, this channel is actually Channel A. Cable channel 15 is actually Channel B. And so on. Indeed, several cable TV converter manufacturers labeled consumer-end converters to designate stations operating in the Midband by these letters. Cable television operators soon realized that presenting subscribers with a seemingly hybrid system might be considered awkward, and so began the use of assigning numbers to these channels. Essentially, all cable subscribers who watched what they thought was channel 14 were, in fact, watching Channel A. Thus, in this example, channel 14 is a virtual channel.

As a sidenote, I do not know specifically WHY the channel immediately following Channel 6 would not become the commonly accepted channel 14, and why five channels would separate Channel 6 from the commonly accepted channel 14, but that is ultimately what happened. I can only guess that the presence of the FM band within that bandwidth played a role in that decision.


----------



## Ednixon1

*KVNV 3 October 2014 sign on*



Aero 1 said:


> TVguide.com is now showing full listings for 3.1 WLJPHD. Did a scan, not picking anything up yet. According to the station manager, still have a few weeks before they go live.


KVNV channel 3 in New York is trying for an October 1, 2014 sign on date. If you look at the TV tower on the very top of the 52 story Conde Nast building at 4 Times Square and there is still a yellow gin pole alongside the new Jampro / AB Dick circularly polarized channel 3 antenna on top, then they won't be on the air. The construction jin pole is still up, today, Friday Sept. 19. The website for KVNV 3 and it's sister station KJWP 2 in Philadelphia is PMCM TV dot com
There are two transmitters ready to go. To differentiate the 720p HD signal from an overlapping coverage area with channel 3 in Hartford, CN
KVNV 3 will be using psip ID 3.10 for it's primary HD channel rather than the usual 3.1.

meTV hopes to be originating actual native HD programming on this station rather than the upconverted 480p on KJWP 2.
This will be shows that were shot on film and scanned into HD, such as Hogan's Heroes, which was done for HD net years ago.
We are awaiting the HDTV network downlink gear for that. It will be a new network launch, meTV HD. 
A photo of the antenna atop 4 Times Square with yellow construction gin pole in place is attached.
Please stand by, we hope you can get the 7KW ERP channel 3 in October.


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## reddice

Low VHF should have never been used for digital TV and instead be relocated for radio broadcasts which means expanding the FM dial.


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## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> Giacomo, this is ridicolous, why dont the FCC just pass an amendment use real channels no more psp, or virtual channels problems solved.


Your proposal is quite ridiculous...actually f***ing ridiculous. The KVNV/WFSB issue is very isolated. You don't go write new rules and screw with stations that have been on the air with a channel identity for decades to please a new station that is able to go on the air due to a loophole. It is great for the market that a new station is coming but not at the expense of displacing those that have been here.

The proposal of using 3.10+ PSIP sounds fair.


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## Aero 1

Ednixon1 said:


> KVNV channel 3 in New York is trying for an October 1, 2014 sign on date. If you look at the TV tower on the very top of the 52 story Conde Nast building at 4 Times Square and there is still a yellow gin pole alongside the new Jampro / AB Dick circularly polarized channel 3 antenna on top, then they won't be on the air. The construction jin pole is still up, today, Friday Sept. 19. The website for KVNV 3 and it's sister station KJWP 2 in Philadelphia is PMCM TV dot com
> There are two transmitters ready to go. To differentiate the 720p HD signal from an overlapping coverage area with channel 3 in Hartford, CN
> KVNV 3 will be using psip ID 3.10 for it's primary HD channel rather than the usual 3.1.
> 
> meTV hopes to be originating actual native HD programming on this station rather than the upconverted 480p on KJWP 2.
> This will be shows that were shot on film and scanned into HD, such as Hogan's Heroes, which was done for HD net years ago.
> We are awaiting the HDTV network downlink gear for that. It will be a new network launch, meTV HD.
> A photo of the antenna atop 4 Times Square with yellow construction gin pole in place is attached.
> Please stand by, we hope you can get the 7KW ERP channel 3 in October.


thanks for the feedback. you said we a few times there, do you work at PMCM? hope you do meet your new launch date.


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## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> thanks for the feedback. you said we a few times there, do you work at PMCM? hope you do meet your new launch date.


I highly doubt they will be online Oct 1. Kvnv employee has said they won't come on for at least three months. Don't get your hopes up high


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## Giacomo Siffredi

*PMCM TV, LLC. Is 100% Within It's Legal Rights*



veedon said:


> I like the proposal. It allows the new KVNV to be Channel 3 for all of its OTA viewers while still allowing WFSB and KYW to be Channel 3 both OTA and on cable systems in areas where those stations have historically marketed themselves as Channel 3.
> 
> The main objection will likely be that some OTA viewers could be misled into thinking that the KVNV feeds on 3.10, 3.11, etc. are subchannels belonging to station WFSB or subchannels belonging to station KYW. This could be remedied by requiring all of the stations to do station identification announcements (on all of their subchannels) that announce the call letters and maybe even announce the company that owns the station. (Wouldn't it be nice to know what company is responsible for the station?)





nyctveng said:


> (uhfyagi's) proposal is quite ridiculous...actually f***ing ridiculous. The KVNV/WFSB issue is very isolated. You don't go write new rules and screw with stations that have been on the air with a channel identity for decades to please a new station that is able to go on the air due to a loophole. It is great for the market that a new station is coming but not at the expense of displacing those that have been here.
> 
> The proposal of using 3.10+ PSIP sounds fair.


Meredith Corporation overextended themselves by complaining about PMCM TV's PSIP. While I agree that some sort of compromise is helpful - and I think that compromise exists in PMCM's proposal to not seek a channel 3 assignment on Fairfield County, CT. pay TV systems - the reality is that the majority of viewers in this region have been and will be watching these stations via a pay TV service provider. Initially, many observers thought that Meredith's objections were based on this premise, specifically that the right of WFSB to request channel 3 carriage from area MVPDs would be endangered. But as we can now see through FCC filings, this was likely not the case.

I have no objection to PMCM TV's proposal with respect to both it's OTA and retransmitted signal via the regional MVPDs that serve the New York, NY and Fairfield, CT. television markets, except that I strongly feel the portion of that proposal concerning the OTA signal of KVNV is unnecessary.

PMCM TV, by their actions, in no way attempted to displace or interfere with any existing television station. It is important to note that the only objections to KVNV raised have been those by the licensee of a television station that operates outside of KVNV's present or future market.

I encourage anyone interested in this matter to read through the numerous pleadings and exhibits attached thereto filed by all interested parties with the FCC. I'll forewarn: they are quite lengthy. I have read through them, and I've reached this conclusion:

*PMCM TV is 100% within its legal rights to both identify its OTA signal as channel 3-1 AND, as a station electing must-carry status, to demand carriage from any MVPD operating within its signal contour on channel 3.*

The term "virtual interference", as referenced numerous times by Meredith, is both alien to and absent from the FCC's rules. Prior to its "Alternate PSIP Proposal", PMCM TV sought a compromise in which it would forego its statutory right to seek channel 3 carriage on those MVPDs within Fairfield, CT; apparently that earlier compromise was unsatisfactory to Meredith. Additionally, PMCM TV has noted where, pursuant to statute, every U.S. state - including New Jersey - MUST be served by a commercial VHF television station. To that end, New Jersey has been deprived of this right since June 2009 when WWOR-TV Secaucus signed-off its channel 9 signal, and the constant meritless objections raised by Meredith (licensee of a CONNECTICUT station that operates outside of the New York market) could conceivably deprive New Jersey of it's right to enjoy a commercial VHF television station for potentially years to come should the matter continue in litigation.

The following links direct to the various filings. Incidentally, the July 17, 2014 letter attaches material from AVS forum member Trip Ericson's website http://www.rabbitears.info/ as an exhibit. All pleadings filed with respect to this matter are found within the Correspondence Folder section "Imported Letters"

FCC: KVNV Correspondence Folder: http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/corrp_list.pl?Facility_id=86537

FCC: KVNV Imported Letter - July 17, 2014: http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=50985

FCC: KVNV Imported Letter - July 28, 2014: http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=52509


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## Trip in VA

[Disclaimer: While I do work for the FCC, I do not work on this type of issue. My comments are my own personal opinion and are not necessarily representative of the FCC, its commissioners, or staff. My comments are also not legal advice.)

But the FCC adopted ATSC A/65C to manage PSIP, and adopted it in full. (See 73.682(d).) Annex B makes only a minor reference to markets, but is stated explicitly to apply to overlap in digital service areas, which the areas of WFSB and KVNV most certainly do overlap. Further, it specifically makes reference to major channel numbers (the 3 in 3-1). Of course, the regulations also don't assume a license will be moved from 3,000 miles away and have an existing conflicting virtual channel, which makes them somewhat unclear in this case. But I think WFSB is on much firmer legal ground than KVNV is here. When the FCC was going through their rulemaking to assign 4 to Atlantic City and 5 to Seaford (now Dover), Fox complained about potential overlap between what is now WMDE and their WTTG, and the FCC clearly stated that whoever signed on the channel 5 allotment would have to use virtual channel 36. If Meredith is complaining here about the same thing for the same reason, I don't see how you can treat this situation differently from that one.

Additionally,, while there are plenty of places where PSIP overlaps, the idea that no conflict exists is only anecdotal. I've seen plenty of instances where conflicting PSIP causes one station or the other to not be received on certain receivers. If you want people to receive your signal over the air with an antenna, then the virtual channels should not overlap. The 3-10 proposal prevents that, but I have to agree that it limits the rights of WFSB in a way that other stations are not limited (what if WFSB decides they want to put up a channel on 3-10?) and could create confusion that KVNV on 3-10 is commonly owned with or controlled by WFSB.

Because the regulation really does not anticipate this specific situation at all, I would argue the 14-1 proposal made the most sense, though a strict reading of the regulation does lead me to the conclusion that 33-1 is also valid. If I were the one making the decision, 14-1 is the path I would choose.

- Trip


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## veedon

If KVNV were to use a virtual channel number other than 3, such as 14, wouldn't that mean that it could not demand carriage on channel 3 on the cable systems? That's what the real fight is about. What virtual channel number a station uses for OTA transmissions is of lesser importance. Being right near WCBS and other local stations on a cable system could make a difference in how profitable KVNV is able to be.

Even leaving aside the confusion created by the difference between physical channels and virtual channels, the regulation of OTA is just messed up because the rules have not been brought fully into the digital age. The rules are so out of date and need to be revised. Why should stations nowadays have to pay a higher fee for a VHF allocation? VHF was better than UHF in the old days (getting a VHF allocation was a big deal for WNET), but that is no longer true.


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## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> ... Additionally, PMCM TV has noted where, pursuant to statute, every U.S. state - including New Jersey - MUST be served by a commercial VHF television station. To that end, New Jersey has been deprived of this right since June 2009 when WWOR-TV Secaucus signed-off its channel 9 signal, and the constant meritless objections raised by Meredith (licensee of a CONNECTICUT station that operates outside of the New York market) could conceivably deprive New Jersey of it's right to enjoy a commercial VHF television station for potentially years to come should the matter continue in litigation.
> 
> ...



I wonder when that statute was passed. That's an example of an old law that needs to be revised in light of new technology. Maybe the statute should be repealed and just let the FCC have full authority over channel allocations. Congress could always step in again if it felt that it needed to intervene, but it's usually better to leave decisions like that to the people who are experts in the technology.

I'm pretty sure that very few OTA viewers are clamoring for more signals on VHF-Lo.


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## Trip in VA

veedon said:


> I wonder when that statute was passed. That's an example of an old law that needs to be revised in light of new technology. Maybe the statute should be repealed and just let the FCC have full authority over channel allocations. Congress could always step in again if it felt that it needed to intervene, but it's usually better to leave decisions like that to the people who are experts in the technology.


The law was passed in the 80s. WOR in New York was about to lose its license (I forget why) and went to Congress. In a great bit of evidence that Congress has always been just as bad as it is now about big business, they passed this law that said if a station requested to move to another state to become its only commercial VHF signal, its license would automatically regardless of any other issues that license may have had. The law passed, WOR requested a move to Secaucus, NJ, and the license was retained. Then, 20 years later, it was used for only the second time in its history for KVNV and KJWP.

- Trip


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## dstoffa

Trip in VA said:


> The law was passed in the 80s. WOR in New York was about to lose its license (I forget why) and went to Congress. In a great bit of evidence that Congress has always been just as bad as it is now about big business, they passed this law that said if a station requested to move to another state to become its only commercial VHF signal, its license would automatically regardless of any other issues that license may have had. The law passed, WOR requested a move to Secaucus, NJ, and the license was retained. Then, 20 years later, it was used for only the second time in its history for KVNV and KJWP.
> 
> - Trip


RKO / Genereal Tire was the owner of WOR-TV, and was under pressure from the FCC to divest itself of its broadcast properties for reasons that do not need explanation here. They were force to sell KHJ-TV and WNAC-TV before NJ Senator Bill Bradley passes the aformetioned law. RKO / GT was able to retain WOR-TV for a while longer as a result of the law, but eventually sold to MCA in 1986 or 87, and the calls were changed to WWOR-TV.


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## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> Maybe the statute should be repealed and just let the FCC have full authority over channel allocations. Congress could always step in again if it felt that it needed to intervene, but it's usually better to leave decisions like that to the people who are experts in the technology.


In that case, the LAST group of people those decisions should be left to would be the FCC 

(no offense intended to Trip)


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> I'm pretty sure that very few OTA viewers are clamoring for more signals on VHF-Lo.


Especially any OTA viewers who even understand the difference between VHF-Lo and VHF-Hi, or even VHF and UHF. But for those who do understand the technology, you would be correct. Unfortunately, with an incentive spectrum auction looming, the six VHF-Lo channels may gain more broadcaster occupants.



Trip in VA said:


> The law was passed in the 80s. WOR in New York was about to lose its license (I forget why) and went to Congress. In a great bit of evidence that Congress has always been just as bad as it is now about big business, they passed this law that said if a station requested to move to another state to become its only commercial VHF signal, its license would automatically regardless of any other issues that license may have had. The law passed, WOR requested a move to Secaucus, NJ, and the license was retained. Then, 20 years later, it was used for only the second time in its history for KVNV and KJWP.
> 
> - Trip


This is correct. But anyone trying to ascertain the rationale for this law must understand the media environment that existed in the early 1980s: AM radio still provided full-service programming, and the proof existed in Arbitron ratings in which AM stations ranked high within the targeted demographics. FM radio was just starting to emerge as a technically superior alternative, especially for music-oriented formats. Cable penetration was significantly less than what it is today (in fact, some areas within the New York metro weren't even wired). VHF was technically superior for OTA viewers, especially those who even had an external UHF tuner, let alone a television with a self-contained UHF tuner. Does anyone remember those manual UHF tuners that merely turned like a fine-tuning knob and did not click onto each individual station between 14 and 83? People subscribed to paper newspapers. There was no internet. There were no smartphones.

With respect to OTA television: New Jersey did have it's own government-subsidized television network, New Jersey Network (the present-day WNET-operated NJTV), which broadcasted on four UHF channels. Through these four channels, the network provided full coverage throughout the state. But again, this was a UHF-only network, and thus had a significant disadvantage in reaching viewers in the early 1980s.

New Jersey had - and to some extent still has - a unique disadvantage with respect to its geographic location and media coverage. New Jersey, being sandwiched between two major cities, each having its own media market, has often lived within the shadows of Philadelphia and New York City. This has resulted in depreciated media coverage by Philadelphia and New York City television stations of news within New Jersey. In fact, last year, the news director of WPIX made a decision to only cover news that occurred within the five boroughs of NYC, thus excluding Long Island and New Jersey; That decision was later reversed.

In the early 1980s, the OTA-only audience in New Jersey (which at that time was significantly larger than today) was in need of a free New Jersey-oriented television outlet, and this need was prominently addressed by (or exploited by) RKO/General Tire and NJ Senator Bill Bradley.

Initially, it was a good thing. New studios were built in Secaucus, NJ. which brought temporary and permanent jobs into the state and allowed for programming to be produced within NJ. Original programming included: 9 Broadcast Plaza; People Are Talking; a 12Noon and 10PM newscast, each one-hour; The Morton Downey, Jr. Show; The Howard Stern Show; among others.

Unfortunately for New Jersey, the subsequent sale of WWOR-TV to FOX in 2000 would begin an era in which New Jersey-centric programming would take a back-seat to FOX's real intent for the station: being a bastard step-child to WNYW. On June 12, 2009, WWOR-TV signed off of VHF channel 9 with a decision to keep its OTA signal on pre-transition UHF channel 38. That decision would technically deprive New Jersey of a commercial VHF television station, despite the fact that WWOR-TV uses virtual channel 9-1 through PSIP.


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## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> ... But anyone trying to ascertain the rationale for this law must understand the media environment that existed in the early 1980s: AM radio still provided full-service programming, and the proof existed in Arbitron ratings in which AM stations ranked high within the targeted demographics. FM radio was just starting to emerge as a technically superior alternative, especially for music-oriented formats. Cable penetration was significantly less than what it is today (in fact, some areas within the New York metro weren't even wired). VHF was technically superior for OTA viewers, especially those who even had an external UHF tuner, let alone a television with a self-contained UHF tuner. Does anyone remember those manual UHF tuners that merely turned like a fine-tuning knob and did not click onto each individual station between 14 and 83? ...
> 
> With respect to OTA television: New Jersey did have it's own government-subsidized television network, New Jersey Network (the present-day WNET-operated NJTV), which broadcasted on four UHF channels. Through these four channels, the network provided full coverage throughout the state. But again, this was a UHF-only network, and thus had a significant disadvantage in reaching viewers in the early 1980s.
> 
> ...
> 
> Initially, it was a good thing.... The Morton Downey, Jr. Show; The Howard Stern Show; among others.


Downey and Stern were good things? There's no accounting for tastes, I guess.

As for UHF in the early 1980's, if viewers were having difficulty receiving the signals, it was probably because the transmitters were located too far away or did not have enough power. It certainly was not due to a scarcity of UHF tuners. In fact, I think the government required sometime in the sixties that all sets sold in the U.S. have built-in UHF tuners.


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## nyctveng

veedon said:


> Downey and Stern were good things? There's no accounting for tastes, I guess.
> 
> .


Those shows may not have appealed to all but locally produced content that creates local jobs and supports local businesses is/was a good thing


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## uhfyagi

veedon said:


> Downey and Stern were good things? There's no accounting for tastes, I guess.
> 
> As for UHF in the early 1980's, if viewers were having difficulty receiving the signals, it was probably because the transmitters were located too far away or did not have enough power. It certainly was not due to a scarcity of UHF tuners. In fact, I think the government required sometime in the sixties that all sets sold in the U.S. have built-in UHF tuners.


5 megawatt power for uhf station is low power? the tuners on sets back on 80's had a lot of noise to start with something in the 10db range, most stations had more than enough power , I use to regularly received stations over 100 miles away with uhf antenna back in analog days. there is no doubt back then; stations were powerhouses compare to whats on now. on vhf you could've receive stations even further than uhf. 200 miles was not out unheard of.


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## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> As for UHF in the early 1980's, if viewers were having difficulty receiving the signals, it was probably because the transmitters were located too far away or did not have enough power. It certainly was not due to a scarcity of UHF tuners. In fact, I think the government required sometime in the sixties that all sets sold in the U.S. have built-in UHF tuners.


This is correct. The All-Channel Receiver Act of 1962 (ACRA) (47 U.S.C. § 303(s)), commonly known as the All-Channels Act, was passed by the United States Congress in 1961, to allow the Federal Communications Commission to require that all television set manufacturers must include UHF tuners, so that new UHF-band TV stations (then channels 14 to 83) could be received by the public. Under the All-Channel Receiver Act, FCC regulations would ensure that all new TV sets sold in the U.S. after 1964 had built-in UHF tuners.

BUT... _again_ you have to remember the media environment in the early 1980s. Many people owned color televisions which they paid hundreds of dollars for - and probably paid to have repaired at least once - that were approaching twenty years old. In some cases, owners hesitated to replace them until it was absolutely necessary due to them being built into cabinetry as consoles, and was thus considered amongst the room's furniture. Some of the more expensive console units included a Hi-Fi AM/FM radio and Turntable.

Just as we have recently experienced with ATSC tuners, the earlier generation of NTSC UHF tuners were not as sensitive and therefore may not have received distant or weaker signals as capably as succeeding generation NTSC UHF tuners.

And because the majority of viewers had already established viewing patterns that revolved around VHF signals, thanks to the majority of major network signals operating on VHF for several decades already, buying a new television for the lone purpose of obtaining a better UHF tuner was an expense most casual viewers were unwilling to make. 



uhfyagi said:


> 5 megawatt power for uhf station is low power? the tuners on sets back on 80's had a lot of noise to start with something in the 10db range, most stations had more than enough power , I use to regularly received stations over 100 miles away with uhf antenna back in analog days. there is no doubt back then; stations were powerhouses compare to whats on now. on vhf you could've receive stations even further than uhf. 200 miles was not out unheard of.


Very true. Plenty of UHF television stations in that era did not spare any wattage to transmit their signals, and when compared with the average wattage used today, it was significantly more back then.

Regarding the interference, while many of those CRTs circa 1960s and 1970s were well constructed, it is true that noise levels within their inner components were distastefully high. In some cases, this was usually due to poorly insulated transformers or aging/malfunctioning tubes. In the case of televisions which had both the original 300Ω and newer coaxial 75Ω RF inputs, signal leakage was more common than realized as a direct result of having two inputs, because the unused (and generally not terminated) input picked up errant signals which caused spurious RF interference.



veedon said:


> Downey and Stern were good things? There's no accounting for tastes, I guess.





nyctveng said:


> Those shows may not have appealed to all but locally produced content that creates local jobs and supports local businesses is/was a good thing


Yes, it is/was not only a good thing, it is/was an excellent thing.

And with respect to stations operating in the New York market, that local connection between television and the communities it serves has really been strained over the past two decades. Pardon me if I don't look upon the 60-second "community calendar" segments featured on Saturday morning local newscasts as a true local connection.

Content notwithstanding, the locally produced shows on WWOR-TV were not elaborately produced nor ostentatious. It was apparent to the audience that these shows were not produced to compete with the station's New York City licensed counterparts; their intent, rather, was to reflect the New Jersey local communities and establish a connection with them. The station, as a result, was more accessible to local businesses and organizations. As I see it, this station in the 1980s era was doing more to serve its COL and surrounding region than present regulations allow for.

The deterioration of this station's original commitment to the communities it serves is a direct consequence of the short-sighted provisions of the deregulation of the industry, which effectively allowed big corporate to license as much of the public airwaves as possible and disregard the original intentions of the broadcasting license, save for technical regulations for operation of the transmitter plant and programming E/I requirements.


----------



## dstoffa

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> BUT... _again_ you have to remember the media environment in the early 1980s. Many people owned color televisions which they paid hundreds of dollars for - and probably paid to have repaired at least once - that were approaching twenty years old. In some cases, owners hesitated to replace them until it was absolutely necessary due to them being built into cabinetry as consoles, and was thus considered amongst the room's furniture. Some of the more expensive console units included a Hi-Fi AM/FM radio and Turntable.
> 
> Just as we have recently experienced with ATSC tuners, the earlier generation of NTSC UHF tuners were not as sensitive and therefore may not have received distant or weaker signals as capably as succeeding generation NTSC UHF tuners.
> 
> And because the majority of viewers had already established viewing patterns that revolved around VHF signals, thanks to the majority of major network signals operating on VHF for several decades already, buying a new television for the lone purpose of obtaining a better UHF tuner was an expense most casual viewers were unwilling to make.


And in New York City, where you had seven VHF Stations, the need for a UHF tuner was truly minimized. Many cities only had three (maybe four) VHF stations. New York did not have a need for UHF tuners like Scranton, PA, or even Boston or Philadelphia, where you had independent stations on UHF.



> Yes, it is/was not only a good thing, it is/was an excellent thing.
> 
> And with respect to stations operating in the New York market, that local connection between television and the communities it serves has really been strained over the past two decades. Pardon me if I don't look upon the 60-second "community calendar" segments featured on Saturday morning local newscasts as a true local connection.
> 
> Content notwithstanding, the locally produced shows on WWOR-TV were not elaborately produced nor ostentatious. It was apparent to the audience that these shows were not produced to compete with the station's New York City licensed counterparts; their intent, rather, was to reflect the New Jersey local communities and establish a connection with them. The station, as a result, was more accessible to local businesses and organizations. As I see it, this station in the 1980s era was doing more to serve its COL and surrounding region than present regulations allow for.
> 
> The deterioration of this station's original commitment to the communities it serves is a direct consequence of the short-sighted provisions of the deregulation of the industry, which effectively allowed big corporate to license as much of the public airwaves as possible and disregard the original intentions of the broadcasting license, save for technical regulations for operation of the transmitter plant and programming E/I requirements.


Just look at children's programming back inthe 70's...

WNEW-TV had "Wonderama"
WOR-TV had "Romper Room"
WPIX-TV had "The Magic Garden"

You don't see that type of local production for children's television nowadays.... But that stems from the choices available for children's programming today as compared to 30+ years ago... and how can you locally produce a show that airs on TV at a given time and compete with a DVD?

Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## Aero 1

dstoffa said:


> You don't see that type of local production for children's television nowadays.... But that stems from the choices available for children's programming today as compared to 30+ years ago... and how can you locally produce a show that airs on TV at a given time and compete with a DVD?
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


DVD? whats a DVD? what child knows what a DVD is? you're showing your age  my 3 year old can navigate Netflix Kids and Hulu+ Kids like a pro.


----------



## nyctveng

dstoffa said:


> And in New York City, where you had seven VHF Stations, the need for a UHF tuner was truly minimized. Many cities only had three (maybe four) VHF stations. New York did not have a need for UHF tuners like Scranton, PA, or even Boston or Philadelphia, where you had independent stations on UHF.
> 
> 
> 
> Just look at children's programming back inthe 70's...
> 
> WNEW-TV had "Wonderama"
> WOR-TV had "Romper Room"
> WPIX-TV had "The Magic Garden"
> 
> You don't see that type of local production for children's television nowadays.... But that stems from the choices available for children's programming today as compared to 30+ years ago... and how can you locally produce a show that airs on TV at a given time and compete with a DVD?
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


Yes TV shows that air at set times can't compete with DVD or online streaming however those shows need to be produced somewhere. Better here in the NYC Metro than say L.A. I personally hate shows most of the daytime talk shows produced in NYC but again better here than elsewhere. Straying off topic but L.A. voted in a law that requires adult film actors to wear protection and that has sent the whole industry to other parts of the country.


----------



## veedon

Locally produced programming has been in decline for a long time, except for news shows. WGN in Chicago kept the Bozo the Clown children's show going for many years, and I guess WOR had some similar programming, but by the late 70's most independent stations had switched over to stuff like Speed Racer and Ultra Man. There was no profit to be made in doing locally produced shows.

I don't know exactly when the first solid state sets came out, but I would think that if somebody had an old vacuum tube model from the early 60's or even earlier, then there would have been an incentive to upgrade to a solid state model sometime in the 70's, especially if the old set was B&W and the new one would be a color set.

That leads me to wonder. The analog sets used to routinely last 15 years or more.
What is the life expectancy for one of today's flat panel HDTV's?


----------



## dstoffa

veedon said:


> I don't know exactly when the first solid state sets came out, but I would think that if somebody had an old vacuum tube model from the early 60's or even earlier, then there would have been an incentive to upgrade to a solid state model sometime in the 70's, especially if the old set was B&W and the new one would be a color set.


Not to mention the other changes in television technology:

IR remote control
Digital Tuning

Even then, the old set was typically handed down to kids or put in the rec room / den / basement.



> That leads me to wonder. The analog sets used to routinely last 15 years or more.
> What is the life expectancy for one of today's flat panel HDTV's?


I had a 19" Sylvania set that I was given in 1984. It lasted until 2006. It still had a phenomenal picture when it bit the dust.

I think today's Flat Panels are lucky to last 5 years, especially with the cheap capacitors they are constructed with. I actually wonder how many FP's are thrown away instead of getting a board replaced / recapped.... Of course it will depend how often the set is used...


----------



## LenL

*How About 10 Years!*

I have a heavily used sharp Aquas 1080i LCD TV that's about 10 years old and still works great. In fact it is superior in sound to any TVs made to day as it has large speakers on each side of the screen. Only problem is it is only 1080i. I think it is good for another 10.


----------



## uhfyagi

That was so funny aero1. Lol


----------



## icemannyr

Some of these may be old news, but it had been a while so I did a rescan and check of the OTA channels for the NYC area and noticed these changes,

WASA 24.1 is broadcasting Estrella TV in 720p. Anyone know when this started?

Katz Broadcasting had two of their networks added as sub channels to NYC area stations in August,
WXTV added a 4:3 SD sub channel 41.1 GRIT.
WFUT added a 4:3 SD sub channel 68.4 Escape TV.

Also noticed I am getting reception of WNYE DT channels again.


----------



## hobojoe

I did an add channel scan at 2:15 pm today and got nothing. I did another at 2:30 and have color bars on 3.3 showing KVNV TV and WJLP-TV with a pong like cursor moving left and right. my antenna is aimed at the antenna farm in Roxborogh, Philly running parallel with Manhattan from Rochelle Park, NJ.


----------



## Aero 1

i get the same thing but on channel 3.10 at 70% not bad for putting a lo vhf antenna only in the attic.


----------



## reddice

Getting one bar on KVNV TV but unlike my old Toshiba TV which would break up on 2 bars this newer Toshiba TV can get one bar and still not break up.


----------



## uhfyagi

Wow is this channel strong, I got it pegged on my stb, is much stronger than wkob ch2. My yagi, 91xg has no problems with hi vhf, low vhf. 
Seems like theyre ready.. 🌝


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Kvnv/kjlp/wjlp*

At my reception location in NE Bergen County, KVNV Middletown Township is solid and most importantly steady. The signal is on par with all of the full-power television stations licensed to New York City.

Three other points of interest:

1. WNYE-TV: The signal for WNYE-TV New York has returned to normal as of approximately 12PM on September 27, 2014. This would appear to corroborate an earlier hypothesis made on this forum by another AVS member regarding the signal level being reduced to accommodate work for PMCM TV.

What is perplexing is that no request was ever filed by WNYE-TV to reduce power. My guess would be that a telephone call between station engineers for PMCM, WNYE-TV, and the FCC, in lieu of a formal application, sufficed.

2. WKOB-LD: The signal for WKOB-LD New York has been unreliable tonight. At times the signal is somewhat solid while other times it is too weak to decode. Tonight's atmospheric conditions are enhancing tropo, so the flux in signal is likely due to that. However, the KVNV signal has remained solid with no glitches. 

This may help to allay the concerns of viewers who have concerns about the new channel 3 signal because of the deficiencies in the existing channel 2 signal. It may also help to demonstrate that WKOB-LD does not appear to be causing any harmful interference to KVNV.

3. Call-sign Controversy: PMCM TV officially requested the call-sign WJLP on September 26, 2014. This correlates to station personnel who stated this was their intended call-sign, and is reflected on the EBR Test Pattern presently airing on KVNV.

I stand by my research, all of which clearly points to call-sign KJLP. What remains unclear is why all the references to call-sign KJLP if PMCM TV ultimately will secure WJLP?

Regardless, if the call-sign ultimately is changed to WJLP, I will concede error. But I would also add that in that case, it is lamentable that New York City, given its geographic location, would not get the unique opportunity to host a licensed broadcast station with a "K" call-sign. And especially so provided the unique circumstances of how this TV station migrated to this market.


----------



## Trip in VA

On the tuner at my grandmother's house, it's plain to tell when KVNV signed on:

http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/render_graph/10343612/tuner1/3/-24hours/now

But it doesn't decode. Considering it's hooked to standard rabbit ears on the second floor of her house, this isn't hugely surprising. Of course, as is typical, I was just there on Friday and got back to Virginia on Saturday evening, and now will have to wait until my next visit to play with it.

- Trip


----------



## reddice

Getting low signal message no picture on RF 3 now.


----------



## andgarden

NYC was once a channel 4 market. I wonder how many interference complaints there are going to be from people who still have their cable boxes, etc. hooked up with modulated rf (on channel 3)?


----------



## uhfyagi

Kvnv is off the air or is me?


----------



## Trip in VA

It looks like it went off at 2PM yesterday.

- Trip


----------



## LATV

KVNV will be back on full time later today.


----------



## reddice

Trip in VA said:


> It looks like it went off at 2PM yesterday.
> 
> - Trip


So it was not me then.


----------



## uhfyagi

reddice said:


> So it was not me then.


I guess not, so is coming back 2night hoping METV comes aboard later


----------



## hobojoe

reddice said:


> So it was not me then.


Nope. Not you. I noticed it gone middle afternoon yesterday.


----------



## hobojoe

Went live at 12:33 pm


----------



## Aero 1

went back down at 12:36. Still impressed by the signal quality of the low frequency, my antenna location and distance. this was easy.


----------



## Aero 1

according to that guy that semi works for them, he says that at 6 pm is the launch time

http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-...ion-finally-coming-around-3.html#post36709808



captne76 said:


> So,,,TONIGHT at 6pm, I understand, October 1, 2014 WJLP TV will sign on Channel 3 transmitting from 4 Times Square NYC with studios in Freehold NJ. About a month later than first estimated but here we go k:
> 
> I'm still trying to verify the call letters got updated, might find out later.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Aero 1 said:


> according to that guy that semi works for them, he says that at 6 pm is the launch time
> 
> http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-...ion-finally-coming-around-3.html#post36709808


It's kinda funny in a way. One of the reasons given for the delays for launch of this station was rain. And here we are, on a rainy day in New York City, and station engineers expect to launch the station this evening


_From August 4, 2014:_


Aero 1 said:


> Well, i was kinda right that the recent weather affected the launch. My contact passed the following along when I asked about a new launch date.
> 
> 
> 
> _Delays have been more frequent due to weather (rain). We are also dealing with unexpected and unwelcome FCC issues . I'd rather depend on the weather ! Hope to fire up antenna in about 2 weeks for over the air service, cable carriage a month away. Did I mention the unions? ! Regards_
Click to expand...


----------



## Aero 1

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> It's kinda funny in a way. One of the reasons given for the delays for launch of this station was rain. And here we are, on a rainy day in New York City, and station engineers expect to launch the station this evening
> 
> 
> _From August 4, 2014:_


more info from the "weather guy" and if he is to be believed, there goes your call sign theory:



captne76 said:


> Call letters are supposed to switch officially at midnight tonight from KVNV to WJLP and they are supposed to have color bars up about an hour earlier at 5:01 PM so we can all rescan our TV receivers.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Aero 1 said:


> more info from the "weather guy" and if he is to be believed, there goes your call sign theory:
> 
> Originally Posted by *captne76*
> _Call letters are supposed to switch officially at midnight tonight from KVNV to WJLP and they are supposed to have color bars up about an hour earlier at 5:01 PM so we can all rescan our TV receivers._


I didn't dispute the station would launch this evening at 6PM. I merely pointed out the irony of the station launching on a rainy day when one of the reasons for the delay cited by station personnel was "weather (rain)"

It should be noted that another comment, posted on the _Big Joe Henry Variety Show_ Facebook page, stated: "Due to unforeseen circumstances the New York station will not be up and running until mid 2015." That post can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/TheBigJoeHenryVarietyShow/posts/629673103820232

As to the call-sign, I shall now quote what I posted here yesterday at 5AM. You will see that I report that the call-sign "WJLP" has officially been requested by PMCM TV, and that I will concede error at the time said call-sign is officially reassigned to this facility.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Call-sign Controversy: PMCM TV officially requested the call-sign WJLP on September 26, 2014. This correlates to station personnel who stated this was their intended call-sign, and is reflected on the EBR Test Pattern presently airing on KVNV.
> 
> *I stand by my research, all of which clearly points to call-sign KJLP. What remains unclear is why all the references to call-sign KJLP if PMCM TV ultimately will secure WJLP?*
> 
> *Regardless, if the call-sign ultimately is changed to WJLP, I will concede error.* But I would also add that in that case, it is lamentable that New York City, given its geographic location, would not get the unique opportunity to host a licensed broadcast station with a "K" call-sign. And especially so provided the unique circumstances of how this TV station migrated to this market.


Here is a link to my July 28, 2014 post which explains in details the reasons I theorized that "KJLP" would be the new call-sign, chief amongst them the fact that the "KJLP" call-sign was - *and still is* - specifically stated on their PMCM TV website. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...ota-post26118250.html?highlight=#post26118250

In any event, the station is currently on the air with an EBR Test Pattern with the text "KVNV-TV / CHANNEL 3.10" I look forward to the official debut and wish PMCM TV all the best with this historic event.


----------



## hobojoe

CHiPs


----------



## roseha

So is KVNV running?

I'm in midtown Manhattan and getting absolutely nothing on channel 3 after scanning multiple times over the antennas attached to my TV and my Tivo premiere. I've ordered an RCA rabbit ears antenna from Solid Signal and hope that will pull in Channel 3. (Currently using an HD-Blade from them.) I didn't expect to have this much trouble, especially since there were foreign language and religious stations on 3-1, etc that I could receive until they were moved very recently, apparently to make way for the new station. I'll check in again tomorrow though I guess and see if Tivo will have updated or something overnight?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Roseha,


roseha said:


> So is KVNV running?
> 
> I'm in midtown Manhattan and getting absolutely nothing on channel 3 after scanning multiple times over the antennas attached to my TV and my Tivo premiere. I've ordered an RCA rabbit ears antenna from Solid Signal and hope that will pull in Channel 3. (Currently using an HD-Blade from them.) I didn't expect to have this much trouble, especially since there were foreign language and religious stations on 3-1, etc that I could receive until they were moved very recently, apparently to make way for the new station. I'll check in again tomorrow though I guess and see if Tivo will have updated or something overnight?


KVNV has been on the air since 5:01PM today, and over the time I've watched the station (about five hours) the signal has remained solid and strong. Only once did a glitch occur, and that only lasted for a couple seconds.

Sorry that you have been having this reception problem. What antenna are you presently using, and how is it oriented? Are there any steel-framed or covered buildings immediately near your location? Do you have a signal meter which can verify whether any signal at all is present on RF 3? Is the antenna you have ordered rated to receive VHF-Lo signals?

It is very important to keep in mind that despite the enthusiastic and generally positive reception reports proffered by AVS members here, KVNV is a VHF-Lo station, and without the necessary tools, reception of RF 3 may prove to be a significant challenge.


----------



## uhfyagi

METV signal is HD format, looks alot better than wzme signal does. I presume they gonna use the same schedule as Philly metv, which is no infomercials late at night which is terrific, finally get to see voyage to the bottom of sea again. 🌜


----------



## veedon

Publicity photos in the Asbury Park Press

http://www.app.com/picture-gallery/...hip/2014/10/01/wjlp-goes-on-the-air/16566703/


----------



## uhfyagi

To the folks having issues with METV buy a set of rabbit ears. BTW congrats METV for being a bit tardy but good


----------



## roseha

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey Roseha,
> 
> KVNV has been on the air since 5:01PM today, and over the time I've watched the station (about five hours) the signal has remained solid and strong. Only once did a glitch occur, and that only lasted for a couple seconds.
> 
> Sorry that you have been having this reception problem. What antenna are you presently using, and how is it oriented? Are there any steel-framed or covered buildings immediately near your location? Do you have a signal meter which can verify whether any signal at all is present on RF 3? Is the antenna you have ordered rated to receive VHF-Lo signals?
> 
> It is very important to keep in mind that despite the enthusiastic and generally positive reception reports proffered by AVS members here, KVNV is a VHF-Lo station, and without the necessary tools, reception of RF 3 may prove to be a significant challenge.



Hi Giacomo,
Thanks for the help. I am currently using a Solid Signal HD-Blade attached to the window. I'm facing another building but I haven't had major problems with other stations (I have this antenna attached to the Tivo so I can record OTA shows). I've tried the signal strength test as well as the scanning, nothing at all on 3.

I ordered an RCA ANT121 VHF/UHF/FM rabbit ears from Solid Signal, which is supposed to receive all the VHF channels. I had an old rabbit ears but had recycled it, who knew? I'm supposed to get it Friday, along with another cheap antenna from RCA. Will try them then I guess. Thanks all.


----------



## uhfyagi

roseha said:


> Hi Giacomo,
> Thanks for the help. I am currently using a Solid Signal HD-Blade attached to the window. I'm facing another building but I haven't had major problems with other stations (I have this antenna attached to the Tivo so I can record OTA shows). I've tried the signal strength test as well as the scanning, nothing at all on 3.
> 
> I ordered an RCA ANT121 VHF/UHF/FM rabbit ears from Solid Signal, which is supposed to receive all the VHF channels. I had an old rabbit ears but had recycled it, who knew? I'm supposed to get it Friday, along with another cheap antenna from RCA. Will try them then I guess. Thanks all.


you know i tried my indoor antenna to see if i can receive metv, I could not get solidly, it breaks up too much, i had ribbon fm antenna from my stereo, i hooked to stb on connector and it works pretty good. i think a piece of wire of at least 71/2 ft long attached to back of the tv set will pretty much to the job.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

roseha said:


> Hi Giacomo,
> Thanks for the help. I am currently using a Solid Signal HD-Blade attached to the window. I'm facing another building but I haven't had major problems with other stations (I have this antenna attached to the Tivo so I can record OTA shows). I've tried the signal strength test as well as the scanning, nothing at all on 3.
> 
> I ordered an RCA ANT121 VHF/UHF/FM rabbit ears from Solid Signal, which is supposed to receive all the VHF channels. I had an old rabbit ears but had recycled it, who knew? I'm supposed to get it Friday, along with another cheap antenna from RCA. Will try them then I guess. Thanks all.


Was the HD-Blade the same antenna you used to receive WBQM-LD when that station was broadcasting over RF 3? If so, I am rather surprised if you got any kind of reliable signal for RF Channel 3 with that antenna.

BTW, if you didn't already know, WBQM-LD has since moved to RF Channel 50.

I think you should experience much better results with the RCA ANT121 antenna you have ordered. In order to achieve the best reception, you may have to extend the elements fully. And as with any indoor antenna used to receive VHF digital TV, be mindful that electrical noise and physical movement near the antenna may cause signal interruptions.

Please report back here and let us know how your reception is after you receive and install either or both of the new antennas. I hope your reception for Channel 3 will be much improved


----------



## icemannyr

In the NE Bergen County, NJ area using a RadioShack 15-1892 Indoor VHF/UHF/HDTV Antenna , doing a rescan of channels I did not find KVNV/WJLP TV.

I did however manage to get WPIX-DT which I was not getting before.
I still can't get WNET-DT.


----------



## speedlaw

*VHF Lo in NYC*

Rescanned last night. I'm about 45 miles north of NYC, near the Hudson, and have a decent line to the NYC transmitters.

3.10 - ME TV- is coming in at 88%, and the diagnostic screen confirms it is on RF channel 3, 63 mhz. 

This on a first generation HD tuner, Sony HDD DVR. This is as good as the best of the other channels....

I'm using a far fringe outdoor antenna, which pre-dates transition (does great on UHF so no reason to mess with success), so I am a best case scenario for receive on VHF Lo...those long elements are still up there, but I've been using them for FM radio reception, so.....)

Always good to see new stations, even if programming is 50's TV and info-mercial-ish commercials.

If the FCC manages to sell all the RF they want to to our Telecom Overlords, "re pack" might mean more back 2-5. I always thought, digital issues notwithstanding, that the best of that bunch was channel 4, based on many drives in the NY metro area, tuning TV sound with my ham radio back in analog days.


----------



## Aero 1

i hope they get rid of that added New Jersey/New York bug under the faded METV bug. its horrendous. Looks like they dont add it on their Philly station. Thats one thing Antenna TV did right, no bugs. 

NY top left, Philly top right


----------



## Aero 1

their facebook page went live. https://www.facebook.com/metv3


----------



## uhfyagi

I went to METV webpage wzme has been rebranded METV hartford, wjpl should get a sub like retrotv or theworks.


----------



## reddice

METV looks zoomed and upconverted. Rockford Files is on now but it looks upconverted. Netflix has Rockford Files in 1080 HD.


----------



## RF Burns

METV has a good signal in Rockland County. It does look upconverted. I wonder how long channel 43 will continue running METV and when channel 3 is added to FIOS.


----------



## hobojoe

Not a fan of the zooming. Partial zoom that's not even centered lol.


----------



## roseha

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Was the HD-Blade the same antenna you used to receive WBQM-LD when that station was broadcasting over RF 3? If so, I am rather surprised if you got any kind of reliable signal for RF Channel 3 with that antenna.
> 
> BTW, if you didn't already know, WBQM-LD has since moved to RF Channel 50.
> 
> I think you should experience much better results with the RCA ANT121 antenna you have ordered. In order to achieve the best reception, you may have to extend the elements fully. And as with any indoor antenna used to receive VHF digital TV, be mindful that electrical noise and physical movement near the antenna may cause signal interruptions.
> 
> Please report back here and let us know how your reception is after you receive and install either or both of the new antennas. I hope your reception for Channel 3 will be much improved


Thanks much Giacomo, I should get it tomorrow and will try it near/in my window, which is a large casement type so at least can move it around  If that doesn't work maybe the FM wire idea is worth a try, though I just attached an old Terk AM/FM antenna I'd never taken out the the box and it didn't even get Channel 11...







(and yes I was getting WBQM-LD over the HD-Blade; curiouser and curiouser...)


----------



## Aero 1

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Was the HD-Blade the same antenna you used to receive WBQM-LD when that station was broadcasting over RF 3? If so, I am rather surprised if you got any kind of reliable signal for RF Channel 3 with that antenna.
> 
> *BTW, if you didn't already know, WBQM-LD has since moved to RF Channel 50.*
> 
> I think you should experience much better results with the RCA ANT121 antenna you have ordered. In order to achieve the best reception, you may have to extend the elements fully. And as with any indoor antenna used to receive VHF digital TV, be mindful that electrical noise and physical movement near the antenna may cause signal interruptions.
> 
> Please report back here and let us know how your reception is after you receive and install either or both of the new antennas. I hope your reception for Channel 3 will be much improved





roseha said:


> Thanks much Giacomo, I should get it tomorrow and will try it near/in my window, which is a large casement type so at least can move it around  If that doesn't work maybe the FM wire idea is worth a try, though I just attached an old Terk AM/FM antenna I'd never taken out the the box and it didn't even get Channel 11...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (and yes I was getting WBQM-LD over the HD-Blade; curiouser and curiouser...)


someone correct me if I'm wrong, but hasnt WBQM was always on RF 50 at least for a few years now? They moved from virtual 3.1 to virtual channel 51 but were always on RF 50. Thats why you received virtual 3.1 (rf 50) on the hd blade, there is no way you were getting RF 3 on that thing.


----------



## Ednixon1

Aero 1 said:


> thanks for the feedback. you said we a few times there, do you work at PMCM? hope you do meet your new launch date.


I am an independent contractor working for WJLP 3. Service began on Oct. 1, 2014
The Asbury Park Press at app dot com has a story about it today at their webpage.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> someone correct me if I'm wrong, but hasnt WBQM was always on RF 50 at least for a few years now? They moved from virtual 3.1 to virtual channel 51 but were always on RF 50. Thats why you received virtual 3.1 (rf 50) on the hd blade, there is no way you were getting RF 3 on that thing.


It would be best for wbqm to switch rf chs with wnjn, I keep keying 51 and my stb goes to wbqm rather than njn. Just an idea


----------



## Ednixon1

Channel 3 broadcasting from 4 Times Square changes call letters at midnight tonight, Oct. 3, 2014 from KVNV to WJLP. WJLP is for Jules L. Plangere seen throwing the ceremonial on switch for meTV programming in the Asbury Park Press today. Jules L. Plangere is also the name on the Jules L Plangere Center for Communication and Instructional Technology at Monmouth University. He is a Rutgers alumni. The City of License for WJLP is Middletown Township, NJ


----------



## Ednixon1

No, not KJLP.
Call letters for Channel 3 on 4 Times Square tower are WJLP


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Aero 1,


Aero 1 said:


> someone correct me if I'm wrong, but hasnt WBQM was always on RF 50 at least for a few years now? They moved from virtual 3.1 to virtual channel 51 but were always on RF 50. Thats why you received virtual 3.1 (rf 50) on the hd blade, there is no way you were getting RF 3 on that thing.


WBQM-LD was issued a License To Cover for RF Channel 50 on February 3, 2012.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Congratulations to PMCM TV!*

Hey Ednixon1,


Ednixon1 said:


> I am an independent contractor working for WJLP 3. Service began on Oct. 1, 2014
> The Asbury Park Press at app dot com has a story about it today at their webpage.





Ednixon1 said:


> Channel 3 broadcasting from 4 Times Square changes call letters at midnight tonight, Oct. 3, 2014 from KVNV to WJLP. WJLP is for Jules L. Plangere seen throwing the ceremonial on switch for meTV programming in the Asbury Park Press today. Jules L. Plangere is also the name on the Jules L Plangere Center for Communication and Instructional Technology at Monmouth University. He is a Rutgers alumni. The City of License for WJLP is Middletown Township, NJ





Ednixon1 said:


> No, not KJLP.
> Call letters for Channel 3 on 4 Times Square tower are WJLP


Congratulations to Mr. Plangere and everyone at PMCM TV on this historic event for television in the New York City market! I viewed the images and video on the Asbury Park Press site, found here: http://www.app.com/picture-gallery/...hip/2014/10/01/wjlp-goes-on-the-air/16566703/ and would encourage everyone else to do so. It is not only an inherent benefit to the states of New Jersey and Delaware to finally have their own locally owned and operated commercial VHF TV stations, but bringing the long-awaited and highly sought-after MeTV network into potentially millions of homes in the nation's #1 television market will no doubt help to ensure the preservation of television history.

I must ask you - if you are at liberty to say - why there have been many indicators that the ultimate call-sign for this station would be KJLP? That call-sign, after all, presently does appear on the station's main website at http://pmcmtv.com/ and would comport with reflecting Mr. Plangere's initials, among other indicators.

Again, I congratulate everyone at PMCM TV for the recent historic events that you have facilitated in the Philadelphia and New York City television markets, and for the states of Delaware and New Jersey.


----------



## reddice

I though broadcast stations can only start with K if they are west of the Mississippi River and East can only start with W. Canada stations can start with C anywhere in Canada like Mexico stations can start with X anywhere there too.


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> It would be best for wbqm to switch rf chs with wnjn, I keep keying 51 and my stb goes to wbqm rather than njn. Just an idea


who would it be best for? you? the stations? swapping RF channels between 2 OTA stations is not like swapping baseball cards.


----------



## uhfyagi

Everybody, is just plain redicolous to have to remember virtual chs and real chs. There is better way, the way it use to be. You have your opinion and so do I.


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> It would be best for wbqm to switch rf chs with wnjn, I keep keying 51 and my stb goes to wbqm rather than njn. Just an idea





uhfyagi said:


> Everybody, is just plain redicolous to have to remember virtual chs and real chs. There is better way, the way it use to be. You have your opinion and so do I.


Well maybe if you pick up the tab for the change, you can send a proposal to the stations so they can  at you.Then go out and rescan all the TVs and CECBs that will lose WNJN or WBQM. No station would want 51 at this point as it is right up against LTE frequencies and reception can be wiped out by a phone.


----------



## uhfyagi

How about FCC payin up they sure can afford it with all fines, penalties they rake in a treasure drove 🌞


----------



## Aero 1

what digital converter box deals with rf only? no box should go to rf 51 when you input 51, it should go to virtual 51. strange.


----------



## George Molnar

reddice said:


> I though broadcast stations can only start with K if they are west of the Mississippi River and East can only start with W. Canada stations can start with C anywhere in Canada like Mexico stations can start with X anywhere there too.


There are exceptions like KYW in Philadelphia and WOWT in Omaha and many, many others.


----------



## veedon

Now every hep cat will want to have a big outdoor antenna capable of receiving VHF-Lo.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*KVNV Picture Quality and Programming*

I concur with the comments rendered thus far.


Aero 1 said:


> i hope they get rid of that added New Jersey/New York bug under the faded METV bug. its horrendous. Looks like they dont add it on their Philly station. Thats one thing Antenna TV did right, no bugs.
> 
> NY top left, Philly top right





reddice said:


> METV looks zoomed and upconverted. Rockford Files is on now but it looks upconverted. Netflix has Rockford Files in 1080 HD.





RF Burns said:


> METV has a good signal in Rockland County. It does look upconverted. I wonder how long channel 43 will continue running METV and when channel 3 is added to FIOS.





hobojoe said:


> Not a fan of the zooming. Partial zoom that's not even centered lol.


Like other viewers have observed, the video being transmitted over KVNV appears upconverted and partially zoomed. Adjusting screen settings doesn't improve the problem. This is especially prominent on CRT televisions upon which the station bug is cropped to the point where the right and bottom edges are cut-off.

KVNV apparently at present is running a parallel schedule to KJWP Wilmington. Accordingly, infomercials are scheduled weekday mornings from 5AM - 8AM. This PQ issue was especially notable once the local feed switched on at 5AM, as the infomercial airing at that time was gutterboxed.

Accurate program guide information is currently not being transmitted. Instead a three-hour program titled: "KVNV-DT CHANNEL 3.10, Event 39#" that commences at 1:59AM and repeats every three hours is listed.

Certainly these issues will be addressed eventually. Launching the station and resolving the PSIP/MSTV channel number dispute are probably the immediate concerns at present.


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> I concur with the comments rendered thus far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like other viewers have observed, the video being transmitted over KVNV appears upconverted and partially zoomed. Adjusting screen settings doesn't improve the problem. This is especially prominent on CRT televisions upon which the station bug is cropped to the point where the right and bottom edges are cut-off.
> 
> KVNV apparently at present is running a parallel schedule to KJWP Wilmington. Accordingly, infomercials are scheduled weekday mornings from 5AM - 8AM. This PQ issue was especially notable once the local feed switched on at 5AM, as the infomercial airing at that time was gutterboxed.
> 
> Accurate program guide information is currently not being transmitted. Instead a three-hour program titled: "KVNV-DT CHANNEL 3.10, Event 39#" that commences at 1:59AM and repeats every three hours is listed.
> 
> Certainly these issues will be addressed eventually. Launching the station and resolving the PSIP/MSTV channel number dispute are probably the immediate concerns at present.


You are related to rocco siffredi. Lucky you


----------



## veedon

It looks as though KVNV/WJLP is moving ahead with its efforts to get carriage on the cable and satellite systems. At the FCC web site, there are copies of letters dated September 18 invoking must-carry status for the period January 1, 2015 through December 31, 2017.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Effective Today: WJLP Middletown Township*

Effective today, the call-sign WJLP has been assigned to the RF Channel 3 television station at Middletown Township, NJ.

Accordingly, and despite good faith research and considerable evidence suggesting a different call-sign was sought for this facility, I hereby concede that said research and evidence was ultimately disproven by the FCC's official action taken today.

I extend my apologies to anyone inconvenienced as a consequence of my suggestions that contradicted the eventual disposition of this matter.


----------



## reddice

Yep my TV flashed when I put in on channel 3 and changed to WJLP.


----------



## RF Burns

WJLP Sign On: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzYHljY65BE&feature=youtu.be


----------



## LenL

*No Ch3 for Me*

I doubt I will see it here in Randolph For several reasons. My VHF Antenna is designed for 7-13. And it is pointed to the ESB.


----------



## dstoffa

LenL said:


> I doubt I will see it here in Randolph For several reasons. My VHF Antenna is designed for 7-13. And it is pointed to the ESB.


The former may be more of an issue than the latter. From your distance, they might was well be the same. What's the difference in compass heading? 1, 2 degrees at best? The transmitters are no more than 15 city blocks and two avenues apart...

And just maybe your Hi-VHF antenna is good enough to pick it up...


----------



## LenL

*No*

I think if I was going to pick up Ch3 my setup would have done so already. I have even picked up stations automatically that were added to my channel list even though there is no picture...like 21.1-4 WLIW. Every so often this station gets added and I delete it because reception is zero.


----------



## uhfyagi

Len, do you have a pair of rabbit ears, extend em all the way, set em at 90 degrees, parallel to the ground. You should get their signal, is strongest channel I receive, worth a try, let us know. I receive em with FM antenna, ribbon type with no problems


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len,


LenL said:


> I doubt I will see it here in Randolph For several reasons. My VHF Antenna is designed for 7-13. And it is pointed to the ESB.


I concur with your summations. I think reception of WJLP is definitely possible in Randolph, NJ., but your antenna is not rated for VHF-Lo. From the reception reports I've read here and elsewhere, the common deal breaker between whether the signal is received or not is whether the end-user has a VHF-Lo antenna, uhfyagi being the apparent exception.

For example, at least one viewer in Poughkeepsie, NY. apparently has reliable reception of RF 3, given that they have provided multiple reception reports inclusive of the TOH ID.

And the signal is so good that one viewer reported much of last night it was present in Hartford County, Connecticut...
WFSB's playground


----------



## KEVINL71

Which part of Hartford County, CT? I'm in southern Hartford County, in the south end of New Britain. I had to find a "sweet spot" for my old indoor VHF antenna with the two telescoping rods, perched near a south-facing window. It's likely the only reason I'm receiving a decent signal from WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8 of New Haven. They use VHF-high channel 10 for their digital. 

As for other VHF digital in the area, I never receive a hint with WWLP-TV (NBC) channel 22 of Springfield, MA or WEDN-TV (PBS) channel 53 of Norwich, CT. They use VHF-high channels 11 and 9, respectively. An old Insignia converter, bought in the $40 off with government coupon days, tried to lock on WEDN-TV early on, but never picked up enough signal to lock.


----------



## LenL

uhfyagi said:


> Len, do you have a pair of rabbit ears, extend em all the way, set em at 90 degrees, parallel to the ground. You should get their signal, is strongest channel I receive, worth a try, let us know. I receive em with FM antenna, ribbon type with no problems



Thanks for the tips! I have a dedicated UHF and hiVHF antenna in place right now that replaced my CM4228 that is in my shed. I did better with dedicated antennas than the CM4228 could do.


I also have a home built Grey Hoverman in the shed. SO I might try hooking either one of them up and see what happens. That is for another day when I have some free time. I will post back here my results.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey KEVINL71,


KEVINL71 said:


> Which part of Hartford County, CT? I'm in southern Hartford County, in the south end of New Britain.


That viewer stated their location as being Enfield, Connecticut. A map depicting Enfield within Hartford County and Connecticut state can be seen here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Enfield_CT_lg.PNG

I should add that the viewers on the other forum I referenced are DXers, therefore it may be wise to presume their receiving equipment and reception locations are superior. Nonetheless, even the best DXer cannot receive a signal which is not present.

I anticipate that during times of enhanced atmosphere, this signal will far exceed its predicted contour


----------



## Dave Loudin

The definitive account on the web of US call sign policy is here: http://earlyradiohistory.us/recap.htm


----------



## Aero 1

@LenL would appreciate this little story. I found out this weekend that when I turn on the lights in the garage (4 florescent bulbs), WJLP starts macroblocking! My lo-VHf antenna is in the attic on the other side of the garage and a higher elevation (roof of the garage is at a lower hight than the attic). Luckily the garage lights don't get much usage.


----------



## Trip in VA

Sounds pretty typical for low-VHF. At my parents' house, WBRA-3 breaks up when the vacuum cleaner, blender, paper shredder, etc. are running. It drops out when fluorescent lights are switched on or off, when the microwave door is opened or closed, etc. And you'll be able to tell when a storm is coming or has passed by the breakups in WJLP, probably long before or after you hear thunder.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

*Aero 1*

You will even appreciate this fact even more.

My computer is on the second floor against the outside wall. My antennas are on the other side a few feet up.

When I turn my PC On and the Samsung LED monitor I lose not only hi VHF but UHF reception takes a big hit too.

So I don't turn my PC on at night when TV viewing or recordings are taking place.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Len,


LenL said:


> My computer is on the second floor against the outside wall. My antennas are on the other side a few feet up.
> 
> When I turn my PC On and the Samsung LED monitor I lose not only hi VHF but UHF reception takes a big hit too.
> 
> So I don't turn my PC on at night when TV viewing or recordings are taking place.


Some questions:

1. Have you tried operating the PC and monitor on the first floor, and if so, what were the results?

2. Can you verify that the same electric circuit used to supply power for the PC and monitor is not the same one being used for the antenna rotor, televisions, or any device utilized to receive OTA signals?

Your reception appears to be highly sensitive. I don't doubt what you are experiencing, but the causation(s) is/are certainly interesting, and it would be great if they could be isolated and these problems remedied.


----------



## roseha

I walked home from Time Square to my apartment last evening. It's less than a mile and a half. The fact remains that I have no reception of Channel 3 even after trying 3 new antennas, and I'm on the 8th floor. Ironically, the only time I saw a second-long glimpse of a black and white program was when I was trying out not a rabbit ears but another flat digital antenna. Since then, nothing. I love METV, and I just don't understand them making such a bone-head move in the biggest city in the country. I can't even get the channel scans to acknowledge it's there. Is there some way they can simulcast this station over UHF, where CBS and NBC have moved? I have half a mind to write them and WJLP a letter about this. It's very disappointing.


----------



## veedon

roseha said:


> I walked home from Time Square to my apartment last evening. It's less than a mile and a half. The fact remains that I have no reception of Channel 3 even after trying 3 new antennas, and I'm on the 8th floor. Ironically, the only time I saw a second-long glimpse of a black and white program was when I was trying out not a rabbit ears but another flat digital antenna. Since then, nothing. I love METV, and I just don't understand them making such a bone-head move in the biggest city in the country. I can't even get the channel scans to acknowledge it's there. Is there some way they can simulcast this station over UHF, where CBS and NBC have moved? I have half a mind to write them and WJLP a letter about this. It's very disappointing.


Do you have line-of-sight to the transmitter, and can you tell what the signal strength is at your location? Your problem might be some kind of interference rather than a weak signal. If multipath is an issue, a more directional antenna might help.


----------



## roseha

veedon said:


> Do you have line-of-sight to the transmitter, and can you tell what the signal strength is at your location? Your problem might be some kind of interference rather than a weak signal. If multipath is an issue, a more directional antenna might help.


I think no to both questions unfortunately, I have another building across from me, and if you mean the signal strength for channel 3, there is none showing up on my Samsung LCD TV. The Tivo tuner won't even fix on 3, it jumps to 4 every time I try to enter 3 for a signal strength reading.
I only just set up the latest rabbit ears (a Radio Shack model which specifically claims to cover all VHF frequencies) today so will try again in the window tomorrow, but it's weird, it's just like there's nothing there. Sometimes I don't get 11 or 13 either but can pull them in by making adjustments. ABC/7 is okay.
Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Roseha,


roseha said:


> I walked home from Time Square to my apartment last evening. It's less than a mile and a half. The fact remains that I have no reception of Channel 3 even after trying 3 new antennas, and I'm on the 8th floor. Ironically, the only time I saw a second-long glimpse of a black and white program was when I was trying out not a rabbit ears but another flat digital antenna. Since then, nothing.


Please attempt the following, if you haven't already done so:

Re-connect one of the Rabbit-Ear antennas to the TV/Converter Box, and make sure the connection is snug. Using the numeric keypad, manually tune the TV/Converter Box to RF 3 or 3-1. Extend the rabbit-ear elements fully and position the elements so they are parallel to the floor (this was uhfyagi's recommended position).



roseha said:


> I love METV, and I just don't understand them making such a bone-head move in the biggest city in the country. I can't even get the channel scans to acknowledge it's there. Is there some way they can simulcast this station over UHF, where CBS and NBC have moved? I have half a mind to write them and WJLP a letter about this. It's very disappointing.


The only way this "new" station could enter the market was via the VHF band, and RF channel 3 was the only non-conflicting dial position.

I know this doesn't help you or other OTA-only viewers, but PMCM TV has already reissued its must-carry requests to all of the cable/phone/satellite pay-TV providers in the New York City market. If their Alternate PSIP Proposal is approved, WJLP will be available via those systems, presumably on Channel 3.

A simulcast is definitely possible, although not at all likely on any of the NYC full-power TV stations. Possible UHF station candidates would include some of the Class A and Low-Power stations, such as WDVB-CD, WNYN-LD, WMUN-CD, WMBQ-CD, WBQM-LD, or any of the Island LDTVs (26, 32, and 43), although the Island stations are usually leased with an all-or-nothing proposition. Full-power WRNN-TV could be another possibility. There are other stations, but their programming is either ethnic or reserved.

I think it would be an excellent idea for anyone who has attempted to receive this station without success to not only write the station, but carbon-copy the FCC. In light of the upcoming spectrum auction, any letters from TV viewers that for technical reasons would discredit the use of the VHF band as a replacement for the UHF band is a good thing. Is it likely that any such letters would have any meaningful effect while they contemplate how much of a public resource to sell-off for billions of dollars???

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah, of course not 

But since letters can be filed electronically, no one will lose 49¢ in postage fees.


----------



## veedon

It's a shame that more apartment buildings don't have community antennas on the rooftops, to serve all of the tenants of the apartment building. People have become used to paying for TV programming, but when you consider how high the cost of living is, it would seem that there would be quite a few people interested in having a way to get TV programming at a low cost.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey Len,
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> 1. Have you tried operating the PC and monitor on the first floor, and if so, what were the results?
> 
> 2. Can you verify that the same electric circuit used to supply power for the PC and monitor is not the same one being used for the antenna rotor, televisions, or any device utilized to receive OTA signals?
> 
> Your reception appears to be highly sensitive. I don't doubt what you are experiencing, but the causation(s) is/are certainly interesting, and it would be great if they could be isolated and these problems remedied.



The answers:


1. No. It is not feasible to move my PC. 


2. Every TV in every room is impacted. So it is NOT circuitry. It is because the Antenna is too close to the computer/LED monitor.


----------



## speedlaw

*It is not 3.1....*

It is not 3.1 for the new VHF Lo channel. It is 3.10.

There is a 3.1 that my OTA system picks up on, shows carrier and signal, but no information.

Also, I got for one night, a Low Power allocation on VHF 12, a NYC repeater of an Amityville station. My location means I have line of sight to NYC but that anything east of the the Suffolk/Nassau border is impossible (I know this by ham radio contesting on VHF) due to hills.

Anyway, my Tivo and Sony HDD boxes, both OTA only, need to see 3.10. 3.1 gets "no signal" otherwise.


----------



## speedlaw

veedon said:


> Now every hep cat will want to have a big outdoor antenna capable of receiving VHF-Lo.


Ha ! some of us never took it down !!!!:nerd:


----------



## speedlaw

LenL said:


> The answers:
> 
> 
> 1. No. It is not feasible to move my PC.
> 
> 
> 2. Every TV in every room is impacted. So it is NOT circuitry. It is because the Antenna is too close to the computer/LED monitor.


RF hash is a big problem. Computers are very dirty. Look up "Tempest" for a spy tech that relies on the RF garbage to actually read what is on the computer. 

Hams have this issue all the time, and AM radio broadcasters have suffered from an increasing "noise floor". 

Best approach is to, if possible, make sure the computers and the TV, and antenna, have a common ground. Most consumer equipment can't be grounded to chassis, so make sure the plugs are all three prong. 

Distance (which I understand is a problem) should be maximized.

RF chokes (check any ham radio dealer) on the computer cables and the TV Cables can sometimes help. 

The issue is simply that computer makers don't care, and if the gadget tosses noise into the RF, well, "that's not our problem".

As a kid, I remember losing channel 2 every time my mom vacuumed !


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*3.1 or 3.10*



speedlaw said:


> It is not 3.1 for the new VHF Lo channel. It is 3.10.
> 
> There is a 3.1 that my OTA system picks up on, shows carrier and signal, but no information.
> 
> Anyway, my Tivo and Sony HDD boxes, both OTA only, need to see 3.10. 3.1 gets "no signal" otherwise.


Since roseha already indicated "No Signal" on RF 3, I suggested to try channel 3-1 because that would tell her TV/receiver that she was attempting to tune a digital channel as opposed to analog.

From my experience, some TVs - not all - do not properly decipher double-digit minor channels, and instead list each stream chronologically (i.e.: -1, -2, -3, etc.) I am presently using a television that performs in this manner when scanning for Clear QAM cable channels. The TV also displays the OTA streams for WNYW and WWOR-TV interestingly. Here are my lineups for those channels:

WNYW 
5-3 (WNYW SD), 5-1 (WNYW HD), 5-2 (Movies!)

WWOR-TV
9-1 (WWOR-TV HD), 9-3 (Bounce), 9-4 (MundoFx), 9-2 (WWOR-TV SD)

Rescanning does not change the orders in which the streams are arranged.

But you are correct that roseha should also try tuning channel 3-10.



speedlaw said:


> Also, I got for one night, a Low Power allocation on VHF 12, a NYC repeater of an Amityville station. My location means I have line of sight to NYC but that anything east of the the Suffolk/Nassau border is impossible (I know this by ham radio contesting on VHF) due to hills.


That is WPXU-LD Amityville, which effectively acts as a translator for WPXN-TV New York.


----------



## roseha

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Since roseha already indicated "No Signal" on RF 3, I suggested to try channel 3-1 because that would tell her TV/receiver that she was attempting to tune a digital channel as opposed to analog.
> 
> .......................
> Rescanning does not change the orders in which the streams are arranged.
> 
> But you are correct that roseha should also try tuning channel 3-10.



Got it!!!











Just in time for Perry Mason 
Thanks very much to everyone who made suggestions. Until tonight I had no idea I could manually enter 3-1, 3-10 on my remotes. I was pulling in a lot of channels, over 80 on the Tivo tuner, so I tried 3-1 and 3-10 and got "searching for signal" so I put it on 3-10 and pushed the antennas down as far as they could go. (Radio Shack rabbit ears model 1500246 in the window, about $25). I heard voices from the TV and it's now there. Thanks very much again everyone.
BTW the channel didn't show up on the (earlier) scan, should I leave well enough alone or would running a channel scan be a good idea? Tivo is just showing the program call sign with no program information at the moment.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Congratulations Roseha!*

Hey roseha 


roseha said:


> Got it!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just in time for Perry Mason
> Thanks very much to everyone who made suggestions. Until tonight I had no idea I could manually enter 3-1, 3-10 on my remotes. I was pulling in a lot of channels, over 80 on the Tivo tuner, so I tried 3-1 and 3-10 and got "searching for signal" so I put it on 3-10 and pushed the antennas down as far as they could go. (Radio Shack rabbit ears model 1500246 in the window, about $25). I heard voices from the TV and it's now there. Thanks very much again everyone.
> BTW the channel didn't show up on the (earlier) scan, should I leave well enough alone or would running a channel scan be a good idea? Tivo is just showing the program call sign with no program information at the moment.


Congratulations!!!! 

When I read your post tonight, I cannot begin to tell you how happy and thrilled I was to learn that you succeeded at last in your efforts to receive a reliable signal from WJLP Middletown Township 

Without question, the suggestions offered here represent a collaborative effort on the part of all AVS forum members whose objective here is to enhance the viewing experiences for every viewer to the greatest extent possible. I am happy that, in this instance, I could provide a portion of advice that, when implemented in conjunction with the suggestions of others, brought about the successful result you realized tonight.

The picture you attached to your post perfectly captures your success 

To answer your question: A rescan would only be necessary if you lost several channels as a result of any recent scans. Otherwise, you could manually tune to the deleted channels and add them back individually, which would be my preferred method.

In the event that WJLP is not yet added, you should be able to manually add the station without performing a full rescan.

Are you trying to add WJLP on both the TV and the Tivo?

I have one other suggestion at the moment: Take a flash-enabled picture of your TV antenna as it presently is oriented. This may come in handy in the event your antenna is accidentally moved and you would need to reorient it.

Congratulations again, Roseha, and I hope your reception of the signal remains reliable


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey roseha
> 
> Congratulations!!!!
> 
> When I read your post tonight, I cannot begin to tell you how happy and thrilled I was to learn that you succeeded at last in your efforts to receive a reliable signal from WJLP Middletown Township
> 
> Without question, the suggestions offered here represent a collaborative effort on the part of all AVS forum members whose objective here is to enhance the viewing experiences for every viewer to the greatest extent possible. I am happy that, in this instance, I could provide a portion of advice that, when implemented in conjunction with the suggestions of others, brought about the successful result you realized tonight.
> 
> The picture you attached to your post perfectly captures your success
> 
> To answer your question: A rescan would only be necessary if you lost several channels as a result of any recent scans. Otherwise, you could manually tune to the deleted channels and add them back individually, which would be my preferred method.
> 
> In the event that WJLP is not yet added, you should be able to manually add the station without performing a full rescan.
> 
> Are you trying to add WJLP on both the TV and the Tivo?
> 
> I have one other suggestion at the moment: Take a flash-enabled picture of your TV antenna as it presently is oriented. This may come in handy in the event your antenna is accidentally moved and you would need to reorient it.
> 
> Congratulations again, Roseha, and I hope your reception of the signal remains reliable


Noticed last night I had lots of breakup on wpjl METV anybody else had this problem? it is possible that overcast or chance of rain last night was the culprit?


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey roseha
> 
> Congratulations!!!!
> 
> When I read your post tonight, I cannot begin to tell you how happy and thrilled I was to learn that you succeeded at last in your efforts to receive a reliable signal from WJLP Middletown Township
> 
> Without question, the suggestions offered here represent a collaborative effort on the part of all AVS forum members whose objective here is to enhance the viewing experiences for every viewer to the greatest extent possible. I am happy that, in this instance, I could provide a portion of advice that, when implemented in conjunction with the suggestions of others, brought about the successful result you realized tonight.
> 
> The picture you attached to your post perfectly captures your success
> 
> To answer your question: A rescan would only be necessary if you lost several channels as a result of any recent scans. Otherwise, you could manually tune to the deleted channels and add them back individually, which would be my preferred method.
> 
> In the event that WJLP is not yet added, you should be able to manually add the station without performing a full rescan.
> 
> Are you trying to add WJLP on both the TV and the Tivo?
> 
> I have one other suggestion at the moment: Take a flash-enabled picture of your TV antenna as it presently is oriented. This may come in handy in the event your antenna is accidentally moved and you would need to reorient it.
> 
> Congratulations again, Roseha, and I hope your reception of the signal remains reliable


Noticed last night I had lots of breakup on wpjl METV, anybody else experienced this last night? Can it possible that being overcast or chance of rain last night was the cause?


----------



## roseha

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey roseha
> 
> Congratulations!!!!
> 
> When I read your post tonight, I cannot begin to tell you how happy and thrilled I was to learn that you succeeded at last in your efforts to receive a reliable signal from WJLP Middletown Township
> 
> Without question, the suggestions offered here represent a collaborative effort on the part of all AVS forum members whose objective here is to enhance the viewing experiences for every viewer to the greatest extent possible. I am happy that, in this instance, I could provide a portion of advice that, when implemented in conjunction with the suggestions of others, brought about the successful result you realized tonight.
> 
> The picture you attached to your post perfectly captures your success
> 
> To answer your question: A rescan would only be necessary if you lost several channels as a result of any recent scans. Otherwise, you could manually tune to the deleted channels and add them back individually, which would be my preferred method.
> 
> In the event that WJLP is not yet added, you should be able to manually add the station without performing a full rescan.
> 
> Are you trying to add WJLP on both the TV and the Tivo?
> 
> I have one other suggestion at the moment: Take a flash-enabled picture of your TV antenna as it presently is oriented. This may come in handy in the event your antenna is accidentally moved and you would need to reorient it.
> 
> Congratulations again, Roseha, and I hope your reception of the signal remains reliable


Thanks very much Giacomo, for your multiple helpful replies, and thanks again to all. When I realized I could enter 3-1, 3-10 manually it was like a light bulb going on. To answer your question, while I have tried to enter the station on both Tivo and the TV (the antenna's on a splitter from Radio Shack) only Tivo is picking it up (and it still looks fine) but that's really okay since I wanted to be able to record programs from METV. I will photograph the antenna tomorrow when I have daylight, thanks for the suggestion. 

To answer uhfyagi's question, I don't think the weather was my problem, since last night was the first time I got WJLP to really come in. I'd been trying for almost a week before that. It's coming in again today in much better weather and has every time I've tried. 

Thanks again, this is clearly a very helpful forum!


----------



## reddice

uhfyagi said:


> Noticed last night I had lots of breakup on wpjl METV anybody else had this problem? it is possible that overcast or chance of rain last night was the culprit?


I could not get the station at all yesterday just a frozen pixelated image. Also now for the past few weeks I can no longer receive channel 31 as it was always a week signal one to two bars but I was able to get it.


----------



## uhfyagi

Seems like my problem with receiving METV during the night is localized, most likely some kind of interference, either the street lights ei, light post or man made ei, car engines, microwave so on, quite weird during day is strong signal, might have get a vhf low antenna if this continues. screen looks normal with a band of lines and flickering, also the signal meter fluctuates a lot is not steady like during daytime. I try to post a picture later if possible. anyone have a suggestion, for cause.

thxs


----------



## LenL

*Low VHF Antenna*

You may want to rethink getting a low VHF antenna when you see how big the elements have to be to pick up low VHF.....


Also as has been said by others low VHF is subject to lots of potential signal interference from many sources inside and outside your living/viewing space.


Low vhf is a very BAD choice for TV programming.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> Seems like my problem with receiving METV during the night is localized, most likely some kind of interference, either the street lights ei, light post or man made ei, car engines, microwave so on, quite weird during day is strong signal, might have get a vhf low antenna if this continues. screen looks normal with a band of lines and flickering, also the signal meter fluctuates a lot is not steady like during daytime. I try to post a picture later if possible. anyone have a suggestion, for cause.
> 
> thxs


light bulbs? 



LenL said:


> You may want to rethink getting a low VHF antenna when you see how big the elements have to be to pick up low VHF.....


yep, my lo vhf antenna is 112 inches wide at its longest element and 80 inches long and it takes a nice chunk of space in my attic.


----------



## reddice

LenL said:


> Low vhf is a very BAD choice for TV programming.


I agree it should have been re-branded for radio broadcasts. I still can't believe that some cities like Las Vegas and Philadelphia get a full power network affiliate on a low VHF channel.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> light bulbs? during the day, not most of my nearby houses are using appliances, lights, probably my antenna is being interfere during the evening when people are using them.
> 
> I replaced the 91xg with winter antenna thats smaller in lenght could be another reason I'm losing metv, with 91xg. metv was pegged at 100% all the time.
> 
> yep, my lo vhf antenna is 112 inches wide at its longest element and 80 inches long and it takes a nice chunk of space in my attic.





reddice said:


> I agree it should have been re-branded for radio broadcasts. I still can't believe that some cities like Las Vegas and Philadelphia get a full power network affiliate on a low VHF channel.


 I agree the fcc screwed selling off high uhf band. if anything the low vhf and low uhf 14-30 should of been sold.


----------



## uhfyagi

reddice, I was earthlink customer, till last month, when I went to twc to return my rented modem, the rep there, offered me a faster connection with twc. 50/5 for $5 more a month than i was paying for standard on earthlink, for a year I pay #34 .99. I know that earthlink is pretty good service.


----------



## dstoffa

uhfyagi said:


> I agree the fcc screwed selling off high uhf band. if anything the low vhf and low uhf 14-30 should of been sold.


But then wouldn't everyone be walking around with 112 inch antennas on their smart phones?


----------



## veedon

There are some advantages to VHF in mountainous areas and in some wide open spaces where signals need to cover large distances, but in urban areas VHF is not great, and VHF-Lo is downright crummy in many cases.

Would those 112-inch smart phone antennas improve your chance of getting a good seat on a subway train? Maybe they could be used to hail a taxi.


----------



## uhfyagi

dstoffa said:


> But then wouldn't everyone be walking around with 112 inch antennas on their smart phones?


fractal antenna like the one ring used on all cell phones


----------



## reddice

veedon said:


> There are some advantages to VHF in mountainous areas and in some wide open spaces where signals need to cover large distances, but in urban areas VHF is not great, and VHF-Lo is downright crummy in many cases.
> 
> Would those 112-inch smart phone antennas improve your chance of getting a good seat on a subway train? Maybe they could be used to hail a taxi.


I agree VHF high is pretty good. VHF low should only have been used for radio stations.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

uhfyagi said:


> fractal antenna like the one ring used on all cell phones



Which operate from 700 MHz to perhaps 2.1 GHz. As an example, scale that same fractal antenna down to low VHF (54 MHz on ch 2) and your fractal antenna from 700 MHz just grew by a factor of 13 times. You're going to be walking around with a pretty big lap-top-sized smartphone.


----------



## uhfyagi

ProjectSHO89 said:


> Which operate from 700 MHz to perhaps 2.1 GHz. As an example, scale that same fractal antenna down to low VHF (54 MHz on ch 2) and your fractal antenna from 700 MHz just grew by a factor of 13 times. You're going to be walking around with a pretty big lap-top-sized smartphone.


you're taking this comment out of context, I said the lower part of tv band UHF 470-560 MHz.


----------



## mikepier

Getting 3.10 out here in Wantagh, LI, 25 miles away with my Radio Shack VU-75 on my roof,(minus 1 large VHF element from a storm).


Getting it with 75% signal strength, no issues.


----------



## LenL

I recently lost 66.1-3 (WNYT) for some reason the past 2-3 days. Anyone else notice an issue? I checked Trips graphs on reception from his NJ location but only saw a slight dip?


----------



## reddice

Still can't get channel 31.


----------



## LenL

*Ch31*

Has been a problem for me too. I get it from time to time. It used to be much better


----------



## reddice

At least channel 31 is in HD on Dish Network.


----------



## nyctveng

*Univision Channels*

WXTV started transmitting 41-2 in 1080i HD and WFUT started transmitting 68-2 in 1080i HD, great for those that get one and not the other. I'm assuming WFTY is doing the same.


----------



## hobojoe

You assumed correctly.


----------



## AloEuro

Ch.3-10 Sunday was showing 'Mission Impossible, Columbo etc. Promo for Gilligan Island, Saints, showing Chips, MASH, etc. good line up


----------



## uhfyagi

METV lineup is OK, for now, wish they stop showing mash, Perry mason, columbo just not into it, they been showing these recycled series for too long already. bring other great series like the rat patrol, time tunnel, land of the giants. just to name of few..


----------



## Aero 1

I just wish they stop the zoom, its terrible. Watching batman the other day, there was a glitch and it went to its OAR and you could clearly see a ton of stuff that was cut out.


----------



## veedon

Aero 1 said:


> I just wish they stop the zoom, its terrible. Watching batman the other day, there was a glitch and it went to its OAR and you could clearly see a ton of stuff that was cut out.


The OAR for the "Batman" TV series was 4:3.
How is WJLP handling it? Can't you adjust the setting on your set if they are zooming it or stretching it?


----------



## Aero 1

veedon said:


> The OAR for the "Batman" TV series was 4:3.
> How is WJLP handling it? Can't you adjust the setting on your set if they are zooming it or stretching it?


Since wjlp is sending a 720p signal, they are zooming all their programming in order to get rid of the black bars on the top and reducing the size of the bars on the side. 

If they were to show the programming in OAR, then there would be black bars all around the image. 

Cozy tv did it right. They are sending a 16:9 480p broadcast since they show some 16:9 programming in SD and when they show 4:3 content, it displays in its OAR. ThisTv and others broadcast in 4:3 480p, that's why you see 4:3 in OAR and movies wrapped in black bars. 

The mistake wjlp is doing (unless it's mandated by MeTV) is broadcasting in HD for a channel that doesn't show anything HD (although I have seen HD commercials on it) and zooming it in order to fill all the screen real state it can.


----------



## veedon

Aero 1 said:


> Since wjlp is sending a 720p signal, they are zooming all their programming in order to get rid of the black bars on the top and reducing the size of the bars on the side.
> 
> If they were to show the programming in OAR, then there would be black bars all around the image.
> 
> Cozy tv did it right. They are sending a 16:9 480p broadcast since they show some 16:9 programming in SD and when they show 4:3 content, it displays in its OAR. ThisTv and others broadcast in 4:3 480p, that's why you see 4:3 in OAR and movies wrapped in black bars.
> 
> The mistake wjlp is doing (unless it's mandated by MeTV) is broadcasting in HD for a channel that doesn't show anything HD (although I have seen HD commercials on it) and zooming it in order to fill all the screen real state it can.


I don't understand what you mean about having black bars on all sides. If a program is 4:3 and is shown on a 16:9 set, can't the TV just add pillar bars at the right and the left (and no bars above and below) to maintain the 4:3 aspect ratio? And if some viewers like to have the screen filled despite distortion, they could choose a 16:9 setting.

I find the way stations handle aspect ratios to be a complete mystery. I especially can't figure out why things would ever be set up to produce the postage stamp effect. What are they trying to guard against by having unused space on all four sides?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Aero 1 said:


> I just wish they stop the zoom, its terrible. Watching batman the other day, there was a glitch and it went to its OAR and you could clearly see a ton of stuff that was cut out.


In 100% agreement



veedon said:


> The OAR for the "Batman" TV series was 4:3.
> 
> How is WJLP handling it? Can't you adjust the setting on your set if they are zooming it or stretching it?


The OAR for the overwhelming majority of made-for-TV series filmed from that era is 4:3, as televisions were only being manufactured with 4:3 CRT picture tubes.

WJLP transmits with a dynamic aspect-ratio. That fact notwithstanding, negative to your second question. The network video from Chicago apparently is being zoomed somewhere in the chain before being fed into the Harris, thus effectively cropping the retransmitted video. Additionally, the video quality appears mildly saturated. These artifacts cannot be compensated by viewers adjusting the aspect-ratio or video settings on their home equipment.

Hopefully the engineers at PMCM TV will someday address this and it won't take longer than several months before the video is eventually retransmitted correctly.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> In 100% agreement
> 
> 
> The OAR for the overwhelming majority of made-for-TV series filmed from that era is 4:3, as televisions were only being manufactured with 4:3 CRT picture tubes.
> 
> WJLP transmits with a dynamic aspect-ratio. That fact notwithstanding, negative to your second question. The network video from Chicago apparently is being zoomed somewhere in the chain before being fed into the Harris, thus effectively cropping the retransmitted video. Additionally, the video quality appears mildly saturated. These artifacts cannot be compensated by viewers adjusting the aspect-ratio or video settings on their home equipment.
> 
> Hopefully the engineers at PMCM TV will someday address this and it won't take longer than several months before the video is eventually retransmitted correctly.


I wonder why the station won't let viewers make their own adjustments on their TV settings. Does the station figure that the target audience won't understand how to change the aspect ratio settings on the TV set?

What programming could the station possibly be planning to air that would actually need 16:9? Some movies perhaps? Or local public affairs programming?


----------



## Aero 1

veedon said:


> I don't understand what you mean about having black bars on all sides. If a program is 4:3 and is shown on a 16:9 set, can't the TV just add pillar bars at the right and the left (and no bars above and below) to maintain the 4:3 aspect ratio? And if some viewers like to have the screen filled despite distortion, they could choose a 16:9 setting.
> 
> I find the way stations handle aspect ratios to be a complete mystery. I especially can't figure out why things would ever be set up to produce the postage stamp effect. What are they trying to guard against by having unused space on all four sides?


So because this station is not behaving correctly, people should constantly change the overseas on the equipment to get a more desired experience? And then change it back when you change the channel in order to fix that channel you broke in order to watch the previous channel? That's horrendous. And for people like me who have an entertainment system, I would have to play around with the overseas settings on my avr, tivo and then TV.


----------



## veedon

Aero 1 said:


> So because this station is not behaving correctly, people should constantly change the overseas on the equipment to get a more desired experience? And then change it back when you change the channel in order to fix that channel you broke in order to watch the previous channel? That's horrendous. And for people like me who have an entertainment system, I would have to play around with the overseas settings on my avr, tivo and then TV.


I don't know what you mean by "overseas".
What I'm arguing for is for stations to let viewers use the controls that are already part of their TV sets. Mine has aspect ratio settings such as 4:3, 16:9, Zoom, and so on. Usually I use the 16:9 settting, and if the programming happens to be 4:3 and I think the people are looking too short and squat and unpleasantly plump, I switch to 4:3 while watching that show. But if a station does a pre-zooming, as people here have described, then I lose that control, don't I? I lose the ability to decide for myself whether to watch the program in its native 4:3 ratio or to fill the 16:9 screen and accept the distortion.

There is also a "set by program" setting, but that rarely gives good results. More often than not, that gives the dreaded postage stamp effect, especially during commercials.

The commercials may be the main reason that some stations broadcast as HD even though the bulk of the programming on the station is SD with a native ratio of 4:3.


----------



## Aero 1

veedon said:


> I don't know what you mean by "overseas".
> What I'm arguing for is for stations to let viewers use the controls that are already part of their TV sets. Mine has aspect ratio settings such as 4:3, 16:9, Zoom, and so on. Usually I use the 16:9 settting, and if the programming happens to be 4:3 and I think the people are looking too short and squat and unpleasantly plump, I switch to 4:3 while watching that show. But if a station does a pre-zooming, as people here have described, then I lose that control, don't I? I lose the ability to decide for myself whether to watch the program in its native 4:3 ratio or to fill the 16:9 screen and accept the distortion.
> 
> There is also a "set by program" setting, but that rarely gives good results. More often than not, that gives the dreaded postage stamp effect, especially during commercials.
> 
> The commercials may be the main reason that some stations broadcast as HD even though the bulk of the programming on the station is SD with a native ratio of 4:3.


Sorry, autocorrect from my phone. It's supposed to say overscan. 
Like i have been saying and giacomo mentioned. The way wjlp is broadcasting is wrong and doesn't allow you to change your settings. In order to do that, the station must broadcast correctly. Again, not everyone has the same simple controls like you and depend on the correct broadcast. 

Do you not get wjlp?


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> Sorry, autocorrect from my phone. It's supposed to say overscan.
> Like i have been saying and giacomo mentioned. The way wjlp is broadcasting is wrong and doesn't allow you to change your settings. In order to do that, the station must broadcast correctly. Again, not everyone has the same simple controls like you and depend on the correct broadcast.
> 
> Do you not get wjlp?


using the zenith stb box ddt901 I can change the screen settings with no problems. to me the pq on metv using a tv tube set looks as quite good. 
have you tried watching metv on digital stb?


----------



## Aero 1

you guys dont seem to understand. wjlp is broadcasting in 720p and zooming the 4:3 shows in order to get rid of the black bars on the top and the bottom. its cropping the image on an HDTV. i dont have an analog to digital converter or an old Tube like what seems to be all of you which frankly, im shocked. ive moved on from the old days, i have HDTV's with digital tuners and Tivos. on your old equipment, the native image is most likely with bars all around the picture. once you change the screen settings, it fits fine for your old tv. it does not work for HDTV's, it gets zoomed even more.

in layman's terms, this is what wjlp is doing:

they should be broadcasting in the format shown in #1 but they decided to do #2 .


----------



## d3193

veedon said:


> I find the way stations handle aspect ratios to be a complete mystery. I especially can't figure out why things would ever be set up to produce the postage stamp effect. What are they trying to guard against by having unused space on all four sides?


You have to wonder whom they consider their target audience to be. Even the (shrinking) number of people who watch on 4x3 televisions are now used to seeing letterboxed programs - often via a digital converter box.

Surely the most sensible approach is that used by Cosi. Broadcast a 480i widescreen image. Place any 4x3 material in the center, with black sidebars (no stretching here!) 
Those watching on a widescreen TV (now the majority of viewers) see their screen filled vertically at all times, and occasionally filled horizontally. There is never a letterbox with simultaneous pillarbox (giving postage stamp size images).
Those watching on old 4x3 sets will see their usual letterbox image during widescreen programs, and can zoom in for the 4x3 material (this is how they see almost all modern broadcasts from network stations).

The worst choice is to broadcast 480I 4x3 but with all content contained within a 16x9 letterbox inside the 4x3. This gives a small image whatever type of screen you are viewing. Imagine watching these programs on a modern 16x9 TV: The 4x3 broadcast is already pillarboxed left and right; widescreen images are letterboxed within that pillarbox; non-widescreen images are pillarboxed within the letterbox, which is already pillarboxed. The mind boggles - and the images are tiny. Yet, we see this on the air. 

Have you also noticed that some of the old 4x3 broadcasts are from source material that uses the old NTSC black level pedestal (a 7% lift in the level of 'black')? Washed out images with gray for black. Someone needs to pay attention to quality control. Or maybe there's the old "the viewer won't notice" syndrome.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I am mystified by the decision making process.


----------



## veedon

I'm not in your market, so I can't see what WJLP looks like.
However, in my market in NC, there have been similar debates about how stations should handle standard definition programming in an age where many people are using 16:9 flat panel TVs but there are still quite a few 4:3 CRT TVs around.

My guess is that the advertisers are the ones who ultimately will rule, and that if the advertisers want their ads to be in HD and to fill a 16:9 screen, stations will tend to obey the advertisers.

From what I've heard, there is no consensus among viewers on the issue of whether a station that "broadcasts in widescreen" should "build in pillar bars" on the right and left of a 4:3 image so that the flat panel widescreen TV set will be "fooled" into thinking the image is 16:9 and will not try to horizontally stretch the image to fill the whole screen if the user's TV set has a default setting of 16:9.

Some people feel that the stations should try to anticipate how people's sets will react to the image and that the stations should try to send a picture that will be in the correct aspect ratio (the OAR for the programming) when displayed on the viewer's set unless the user takes deliberate and extraordinary steps to intervene and cause a different way of displaying the image.

I tend to take the view that people have the right to be wrong, the right to choose distortion, and the right to be iconoclasts or rebels, but that it should be more up to the viewer to perform the distortion and that stations should not interfere with the right to distort or make it unduly difficult to be different from the crowd.

My Me-TV station just sends an image in plain old 480i, with no attempt to be "widescreen". If I choose the 4:3 setting on my TV, then I get the "correct" aspect ratio (4:3) and just have to endure the pillar bars (which I find annoying). But that's my choice to make, and many times I decide to just choose 16:9 to fill the screen, even though that provides a bit of distortion. But I never choose the zoom option that just enlarges things and cuts off a lot of the image.

Also, I tend to watch slender people on TV, so even when distorted, they don't look too terribly plump. If I was watching a program full of plumpers, I might not want to exacerbate the situation.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> I wonder why the station won't let viewers make their own adjustments on their TV settings. Does the station figure that the target audience won't understand how to change the aspect ratio settings on the TV set?
> 
> What programming could the station possibly be planning to air that would actually need 16:9? Some movies perhaps? Or local public affairs programming?


Veedon, that is not _exactly_ what is happening with WJLP.

WJLP does in fact transmit a signal that allows viewers to adjust the aspect-ratio. The problem is that the video which WJLP is retransmitting is already cropped, therefore, adjusting the aspect-ratio, while functional, will not correct the zoomed image problem. In other words, the defect is presently permanent and cannot be eliminated by the viewers.

To answer your programming question: I cannot fathom any current or future programming this station presently offers or may offer that would justify maintaining the 16:9 aspect-ratio. As I earlier stated, the majority, if not all, of the programming carried by MeTV Network was filmed for television at a time when the only television receivers being manufactured for viewers in the United States were those with a CRT at 525 lines and with a 4:3 aspect-ratio.

Any future public affairs programming on WJLP _may_ be produced in 16:9, and I would actually be surprised if it was not so produced. Nonetheless, accommodating only two hours of programming per week by spiting the remaining 168 hours in that same week, especially when public affairs programming historically under-performs a station's regular programming, seems very counter-productive and would indicate poor planning.

You should also be aware that WJLP airs three hours of infomercials each weekday morning, and none of that programming airs in 16:9. That block, in fact, is postage-stamped.



veedon said:


> I don't know what you mean by "overseas".
> What I'm arguing for is for stations to let viewers use the controls that are already part of their TV sets. Mine has aspect ratio settings such as 4:3, 16:9, Zoom, and so on. Usually I use the 16:9 settting, and if the programming happens to be 4:3 and I think the people are looking too short and squat and unpleasantly plump, I switch to 4:3 while watching that show. But if a station does a pre-zooming, as people here have described, then I lose that control, don't I? I lose the ability to decide for myself whether to watch the program in its native 4:3 ratio or to fill the 16:9 screen and accept the distortion.
> 
> There is also a "set by program" setting, but that rarely gives good results. More often than not, that gives the dreaded postage stamp effect, especially during commercials.
> 
> The commercials may be the main reason that some stations broadcast as HD even though the bulk of the programming on the station is SD with a native ratio of 4:3.


Again, you don't lose the control, you simply lose the benefit of utilizing the control.

After thinking this over, I think there are two main reasons WJLP is transmitting this way.

First, and most likely: Doing so allows the station to demand carriage from MVPDs for two streams and not just one. This effectively gives PMCM TV two channel positions on each MVPD upon which the signal will be carried.

Second: The New York City region has now reached a point where the majority of television receivers in use are 16:9. If a potential viewer stops upon a station that doesn't offer up this aspect-ratio, the worry may be that viewers might regard the station as inferior (not "HD") and bypass or ignore it.



Aero 1 said:


> you guys dont seem to understand. wjlp is broadcasting in 720p and zooming the 4:3 shows in order to get rid of the black bars on the top and the bottom. its cropping the image on an HDTV. i dont have an analog to digital converter or an old Tube like what seems to be all of you which frankly, im shocked. ive moved on from the old days, i have HDTV's with digital tuners and Tivos. on your old equipment, the native image is most likely with bars all around the picture. once you change the screen settings, it fits fine for your old tv. it does not work for HDTV's, it gets zoomed even more.
> 
> in layman's terms, this is what wjlp is doing:
> 
> they should be broadcasting in the format shown in #1 but they decided to do #2 .


Aero1, if you don't mind sharing, how did you obtain these screenshots? Are they from MeTV Network?

I have the luxury of using both 4:3 CRT and 16:9 LCD televisions.

I can actually confirm that this zooming problem appears WORSE on a CRT! The CRT already gives viewers less viewing area (unless you adjust internal settings) than an LCD/LED/Plasma. In this case, WJLP has already pre-cropped the video, and thus the CRT responds by further cropping the available picture.

In this specific case, adjusting the aspect-ratio to "16:9" or "Set by Program" actually helps the problem by restoring the cropped portions... but ONLY to the limited extent that the video is retransmitted by WJLP.

Many of us viewed the video which preserves that historic moment for television broadcasting in which PMCM TV Chairman Jules L. Plangere, Jr. pushed the button that launched regular programming on the Middletown Township, NJ. VHF television station whose call-sign would soon after bear his initials.

Perhaps Mr. Plangere need to make one more visit to the WJLP control room and push one more button in order to correct this obvious video issue. I know if a company of which I was chairman owned a TV station and that TV station bared my initials, I would want to be absolutely certain it was transmitting the best audio and video possible


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Any future public affairs programming on WJLP _may_ be produced in 16:9, and I would actually be surprised if it was not so produced. Nonetheless, accommodating only two hours of programming per week by spiting the remaining 168 hours in that same week, especially when public affairs programming historically under-performs a station's regular programming, seems very counter-productive and would indicate poor planning.


The big reason is commercials. If I submit a commercial in 16:9, I probably want it carried in 16:9, even if the source content surrounding it is 4:3. If I go to watch my commercial on WJLP and it's not in 16:9 even though I went to the expense of producing it in 16:9, I'd be pretty unhappy and probably not renew my ad buy.

That's why you're starting to see a number of stations carrying networks like Me-TV in 16:9 with pillar bars. WGHP does it with Antenna TV, Bahakel does it with all subchannels across the board, it's why COZI is in 16:9 across the board, etc.

- Trip


----------



## decapad

Hi. I am interested in getting the very best directional deep fringe UHF antenna. I will mount it outside and use a rotor. So far the specs suggest either a Antenna Craft 91XG or a Winegard HD9095P or HD9032. Range is my most important spec.
That's just from reading the published specs. I would greatly appreciate anyone's suggestions. Many thanks in advance. D


----------



## LenL

*Antenna*

No one can give you any decent advice unless we know where you live, what is between you and the broadcast antennas (trees, buildings, mountains etc.) and what you goal is. 


TVFOOL and a few other sites exist where you can plug in your exact address and they will manage your TV expectations by providing a rough guide as to what you can expect with an antenna.


There are also websites that rate antennas.


Sometimes it is trial and error, especially if you are in a very distant or problem location.


I found I was better off with separate UHF and VHF antennas than a single UHF/VHF one.


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> The big reason is commercials. If I submit a commercial in 16:9, I probably want it carried in 16:9, even if the source content surrounding it is 4:3. If I go to watch my commercial on WJLP and it's not in 16:9 even though I went to the expense of producing it in 16:9, I'd be pretty unhappy and probably not renew my ad buy.
> 
> That's why you're starting to see a number of stations carrying networks like Me-TV in 16:9 with pillar bars. WGHP does it with Antenna TV, Bahakel does it with all subchannels across the board, it's why COZI is in 16:9 across the board, etc.
> 
> - Trip


stations can send out an AFD code which automatically formats content to the correct aspect ratio so 1 ad can play in 16:9 while the next in 4:3


----------



## George Molnar

nyctveng said:


> stations can send out an AFD code which automatically formats content to the correct aspect ratio so 1 ad can play in 16:9 while the next in 4:3


I have a Zenith DTT901 on an old 4x3 receiver and see a "blinkie" every time AFD flips between letterbox 16x9 and fullscreen 4x3. But I've never noticed how my native 16x9 HDTV reacts to AFD nor seen in its menus how to activate that feature if even available. We have our dot 2 sending widescreen and carrying Antenna TV 4x3 content with sidepanels so widescreen local commercials or newscasts appear properly.


----------



## Aero 1

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Aero1, if you don't mind sharing, how did you obtain these screenshots? Are they from MeTV Network?


i found it by googling and it came from this site: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/343911-Using-NTSC-(16-9)-and-PAL-(4-3)-sources-to-restore-a-film


----------



## veedon

Quite apart from aspect ratios, what I am struck by in watching the retro stations is how bad the visual quality of mid 1970's videotape was.


----------



## flatronic

Aero 1 said:


> Cozy tv did it right. They are sending a 16:9 480p broadcast since they show some 16:9 programming in SD and when they show 4:3 content, it displays in its OAR. ThisTv and others broadcast in 4:3 480p, that's why you see 4:3 in OAR and movies wrapped in black bars.


I thought that Cozi and ThisTV were 480i and not 480p?


----------



## Aero 1

Yes, a typo.


----------



## uhfyagi

found out that my troubles with pixelation was not my antenna, was the stb tuner not being efficient as I had thought, swapped out a zenith stb model ddt900 with newer ddt901 stb, I have not seen any breakups in a week, or so point of story is if you're having issues it could be your sucky tuner.


----------



## AloEuro

reddice said:


> Still can't get channel 31.


 Ch.31 most of the time gives blue screen, however, more often ION on ch.12-1 (no2,3) gives solid signal


----------



## uhfyagi

AloEuro said:


> Ch.31 most of the time gives blue screen, however, more often ION on ch.12-1 (no2,3) gives solid signal


Yes, I also have that problem seems like ion on ch31 antenna pattern is pointed westerly. ch12 signal wise is somewhat better here also. I dont watch ion anymore since they don't show wwe any longer. I don't like their programming they glorify cops,fbi f_ck ,em


----------



## Aero 1

So long CBS+

http://www.cbscorporation.com/news-article.php?id=1100



> *CBS TELEVISION STATIONS AND WEIGEL BROADCASTING UNVEIL PLANS FOR “DECADES,” THE ULTIMATE TV TIME CAPSULE, FOR NATIONAL DISTRIBUTION ACROSS LOCAL STATIONS’ DIGITAL SUBCHANNELS*
> 
> “Decades” to Feature Vast Library of More Than 100 Television Series,
> 
> Plus Theatrical and Made-For-Television Movies
> 
> Original Programming to Include “Decades RetrospecticalSM,”
> 
> A Daily Topical Show That Will Offer Viewers an Opportunity to Relive, Remember & RelateSM
> To Historic Events with Footage From the CBS News and “Entertainment Tonight” Archives
> 
> CBS-Owned Television Stations to Serve as Launch Group
> 
> NEW YORK and CHICAGO – The CBS Television Stations group, a division of CBS Corporation (NYSE: CBS.A and CBS), and Weigel Broadcasting today announced plans to launch DECADES, a new national entertainment programming service for distribution across local television stations’ digital subchannels – broadcast channels that utilize a local station’s available spectrum to provide a companion to that station’s primary channel. For example, in the New York market, WCBS-TV will continue to be available digitally as Channel 2.1 and DECADES will be available as Channel 2.2. In addition to being available as an over-the-air broadcast channel, DECADES will appear on numerous local cable systems and other multichannel video programming distribution services along with the stations’ primary channels.
> 
> Utilizing a library of more than 100 classic television series, including select titles from the CBS library such as I LOVE LUCY from the 1950s, STAR TREK from the 1960s, HAPPY DAYS from the 1970s and CHEERS from the 1980s, as well as a wide selection of theatrical and made-for-television movies and footage of historical news events from the archives of CBS News and ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT, DECADES will provide viewers with a new way to experience our shared historical and cultural past.
> 
> As the ultimate TV time machine, DECADES will differentiate itself from other subchannel programming services by varying the classic series and movies that appear on the network every day.
> 
> “DECADES is the most ambitious and creative subchannel programming service that has ever been created,” said Peter Dunn, President, CBS Television Stations. “We are thrilled to partner with Weigel Broadcasting, the leaders in this space, to make smart use of our stations’ spectrums and our companies’ considerable programming assets. This service will be a tremendous new business for CBS and all of the other stations across the country that participate, regardless of their primary network affiliation.”
> 
> “DECADES takes the digital broadcast network platform to a new level. Viewers will ‘Relive, Remember & Relate’ to the events that touched their lives and generations past. The events, themes and programming possibilities are endless. We are truly honored to be chosen as the company to develop the CBS Television Stations’ diginet product, and look forward to the launch of DECADES next year,” stated Norman H. Shapiro, President of Weigel.
> 
> DECADES will take viewers into a daily time capsule presentation of entertainment, popular culture and news. The service will feature DECADES RETROSPECTICALSM, a daily one-hour program that will be produced around the news events and cultural touchstones of a specific day, week or other time frame or theme. The TV series and movies presented each day will reflect that day’s theme or commemorative event.
> 
> For example, DECADES will look back at classic series such as HAPPY DAYS and its “jump the shark” episode, explain its historical significance and then broadcast that episode. Viewers will also be taken back in time to rediscover events that shaped our world, such as the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Neil Armstrong walking on the moon, the Beatles’ U.S. debut on THE ED SULLIVAN SHOW and the birth of software and technology companies like Microsoft and Apple. DECADES will connect these events to what people were watching on television, seeing at the movies and experiencing as a nation.
> 
> DECADES is expected to debut during the second quarter of 2015, with the 16 CBS-owned stations that are part of the CBS Television Network serving as the new service’s launch group. This includes the CBS stations serving New York City (WCBS), Los Angeles (KCBS), Chicago (WBBM), Philadelphia (KYW), Dallas (KTVT), San Francisco (KPIX), Boston (WBZ), Detroit (WWJ), Minneapolis-St. Paul (WCCO and its satellite stations KCCO and KCCW), Miami (WFOR), Denver (KCNC), Sacramento (KOVR), Pittsburgh (KDKA) and Baltimore (WJZ).
> 
> Weigel will be responsible for securing affiliation agreements with other stations across the country.


----------



## unsmiley

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Since roseha already indicated "No Signal" on RF 3, I suggested to try channel 3-1 because that would tell her TV/receiver that she was attempting to tune a digital channel as opposed to analog.
> 
> From my experience, some TVs - not all - do not properly decipher double-digit minor channels, and instead list each stream chronologically (i.e.: -1, -2, -3, etc.) I am presently using a television that performs in this manner when scanning for Clear QAM cable channels. The TV also displays the OTA streams for WNYW and WWOR-TV interestingly. Here are my lineups for those channels:
> 
> WNYW
> 5-3 (WNYW SD), 5-1 (WNYW HD), 5-2 (Movies!)
> 
> WWOR-TV
> 9-1 (WWOR-TV HD), 9-3 (Bounce), 9-4 (MundoFx), 9-2 (WWOR-TV SD)
> 
> Rescanning does not change the orders in which the streams are arranged.
> 
> But you are correct that roseha should also try tuning channel 3-10.
> 
> 
> That is WPXU-LD Amityville, which effectively acts as a translator for WPXN-TV New York.


Yes, after almost giving up, I tuned 3.10 on my Sony HDTV and got WJLP!! This TV appears to pick up new stations on its own, without me having to rescan. I am getting 68.4 Escape now too. However, my old box TV in another room hooked up to a converter box appears incapable of tuning in 3.10 - it jumps to an empty 3.1. Can anyone tell if it is the converter box or my rabbit ears? I would love to have MeTV on both televisions. (The old TV and converter do pick up Escape.)


----------



## uhfyagi

Sounds a lot the same issues I had, yes had. I changed my set top box to a zenith DDT 901 which is was better in handling multipath. In my situation I was using an outdoor antenna, I had constant breakup with pixelation only on METV the other channels were fine. by coincidence I had ddt901 as i was using ddt 900 which is has older tuner, ddt901 is great. I would say your issue is likely the tuner on your stb is having issues. get a used ddt901 from eBay for 20 bucks, I read good reviews on this stb.


----------



## uhfyagi

uhfyagi said:


> Sounds a lot the same issues I had, yes had. I changed my set top box to a zenith DDT 901 which is was better in handling multipath. In my situation I was using an outdoor antenna, I had constant breakup with pixelation only on METV the other channels were fine. by coincidence I had ddt901 as i was using ddt 900 which is has older tuner, ddt901 is great. I would say your issue is likely the tuner on your stb is having issues. get a used ddt901 from eBay for 20 bucks, I read good reviews on this stb.





unsmiley said:


> Yes, after almost giving up, I tuned 3.10 on my Sony HDTV and got WJLP!! This TV appears to pick up new stations on its own, without me having to rescan. I am getting 68.4 Escape now too. However, my old box TV in another room hooked up to a converter box appears incapable of tuning in 3.10 - it jumps to an empty 3.1. Can anyone tell if it is the converter box or my rabbit ears? I would love to have MeTV on both televisions. (The old TV and converter do pick up Escape.)


are you seeing METV 3.10 with breakups? or is not coming in?


----------



## unsmiley

uhfyagi said:


> are you seeing METV 3.10 with breakups? or is not coming in?


 Let me clarify: 
(1) On the newer HDTV with built in digital tuner, I seem to get MeTV without major problem. Maybe minimal breakups (I just started viewing it). But:
(2) On the ancient tube TV with converter box, I get nothing. Not even breakups because it does not seem to tune in 3.10. I get blank channels with "Weak Signal" notification at 3.1 (which tuner box labels this CCNL-NY), 3.2 (labeled Buena TV), 3.3 (labeled CTVN), and 3.4 (labeled WBQM-4).


----------



## dstoffa

unsmiley said:


> Let me clarify:
> (1) On the newer HDTV with built in digital tuner, I seem to get MeTV without major problem. Maybe minimal breakups (I just started viewing it). But:
> (2) On the ancient tube TV with converter box, I get nothing. Not even breakups because it does not seem to tune in 3.10. I get blank channels with "Weak Signal" notification at 3.1 (which tuner box labels this CCNL-NY), 3.2 (labeled Buena TV), 3.3 (labeled CTVN), and 3.4 (labeled WBQM-4).


Have you re-scanned all channels on the converter box? I don't think BuenaTV has been on 3.x in at least a year.

And are you using the same antenna on both?


Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## unsmiley

dstoffa said:


> Have you re-scanned all channels on the converter box? I don't think BuenaTV has been on 3.x in at least a year.
> 
> And are you using the same antenna on both?
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


 I just rescanned everything (previously I just updated rather than rescan). Now, NO Channel 3's (including subchannels) are detected! If I manually input 3.10 on the remote, it simply "switches" to 3, which is a blank channel. But I am now getting something called GRIT TV, that's new (or maybe I just noticed it).

I am using two, separate cheap rabbit ears on each television.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey unsmiley,


unsmiley said:


> Yes, after almost giving up, I tuned 3.10 on my Sony HDTV and got WJLP!! This TV appears to pick up new stations on its own, without me having to rescan. I am getting 68.4 Escape now too. However, my old box TV in another room hooked up to a converter box appears incapable of tuning in 3.10 - it jumps to an empty 3.1. Can anyone tell if it is the converter box or my rabbit ears? I would love to have MeTV on both televisions. (The old TV and converter do pick up Escape.)


Where are you located, and what brands and model numbers are both of your analog to digital converter boxes?

Perhaps the converter box cannot display "3.10" until it receives the PSIP information from the broadcaster. Once the station is received, the "3.1" may change to "3.10" This I why I recently suggested to another OTA viewer who had problems receiving WJLP and has a similar setup to yours to manually enter "3.1"

You should know that her reception problem was satisfactorily resolved with the helpful suggestions from myself and others on this forum.



unsmiley said:


> Let me clarify:
> (1) On the newer HDTV with built in digital tuner, I seem to get MeTV without major problem. Maybe minimal breakups (I just started viewing it). But:
> (2) On the ancient tube TV with converter box, I get nothing. Not even breakups because it does not seem to tune in 3.10. I get blank channels with "Weak Signal" notification at 3.1 (which tuner box labels this CCNL-NY), 3.2 (labeled Buena TV), 3.3 (labeled CTVN), and 3.4 (labeled WBQM-4).


Hard to determine the cause of your reception problems without some testing. Based on your post here, the causes could be the tuner or the location of the TV.

What I can confirm is that the four channel 3 subchannels are or were from WBQM-LD. WBQM-LD transmits on UHF channel 50, and last identified with virtual channels 3-1 through 3-4 in November 2013. That being said, it is plausible that the weak signal you were detecting was, in fact, that of WJLP.



unsmiley said:


> I just rescanned everything (previously I just updated rather than rescan). Now, NO Channel 3's (including subchannels) are detected! If I manually input 3.10 on the remote, it simply "switches" to 3, which is a blank channel. But I am now getting something called GRIT TV, that's new (or maybe I just noticed it).
> 
> I am using two, separate cheap rabbit ears on each television.


The rescan, IMHO, is an overused panacea that rarely resolves reception problems. Local broadcasters, from the small independent station to major market network O&O affiliates, are oftentimes just as guilty as the most well-meaning hobbyist when suggesting that viewers rescan their devices.

The worst example is when a new subchannel is added and the station announces that viewers can obtain it by rescanning. The fact is that MOST new subchannels automatically are added to consumer equipment as soon as they are lit up by the broadcaster, so long as the channel is already added on the consumer equipment.

Receiving VHF-Lo television stations requires extensive patience and a time commitment for plenty of trial-and-error. If a viewer does not have the appropriate attic or rooftop antenna with VHF-Lo elements, that viewer can expect the aforesaid challenges.

*MY SUGGESTIONS:* I will offer the same suggestion to you as I did two weeks ago to the viewer I referenced above.

Be sure the Rabbit-Ear antenna is securely and snugly connected to the Converter Box. Using the numeric keypad, manually tune the TV/Converter Box to RF 3, 3-1, and/or 3-10. Extend the rabbit-ear elements fully and position the elements so they are parallel to the floor.

It is essential that the converter box is tuned to RF 3 while you are adjusting the antenna. That is the only way you can ascertain in real time whether or not you can obtain a useable signal.

One other thing: It is advisable to wait to try this until the present weather system consisting of rain and wind moves out of the area. The current forecast calls for this to occur late this afternoon.


----------



## Trip in VA

If WJLP disappears on your receiver in the near future, you may need to rescan and look for it on 33-1.

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1528A1.pdf

- Trip


----------



## 2VW

Trip in VA said:


> If WJLP disappears on your receiver in the near future, you may need to rescan and look for it on 33-1.
> 
> https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1528A1.pdf
> 
> - Trip


Well at least it isn't 103.1


----------



## Greg2600

This is good. My SD-OTA box picked up 3-10 but my LCD TV's tuner would not, and neither did my PC's tuner. Didn't like the dash 10.


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> If WJLP disappears on your receiver in the near future, you may need to rescan and look for it on 33-1.
> 
> https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1528A1.pdf
> 
> - Trip


then what happens with cbs, is on 33 now


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> then what happens with cbs, is on 33 now


CBS is not on virtual 33, its on RF 33. big difference that you are confusing. WJLP will stay on RF 3 but wants to broadcast on virtual 33.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> CBS is not on virtual 33, its on RF 33. big difference that you are confusing. WJLP will stay on RF 3 but wants to broadcast on virtual 33.


so youre saying if i plug in 3 then it would goto metv, ok got that but it would display 33 on my stb? but i would not be to get metv if i plugged 33 directly, unlike a regular channel. yes no


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Trip in VA said:


> If WJLP disappears on your receiver in the near future, you may need to rescan and look for it on 33-1.
> 
> https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-14-1528A1.pdf
> 
> - Trip


After my post that served, in part, to criticize rescanning...
Hahaha 

As of October 23, 2014 @ 7PM, WJLP continues operations as it has since October 1, 2014 @ 6PM without any modification to PSIP or on-screen branding.

*For viewers who already reliably receive WJLP:* I strongly believe that if the PSIP channel number is changed from 3-10, you will NOT need to rescan because the channel number should automatically change to whatever number is designated by the station's engineers, pursuant of course to regulatory approval.

I have personally witnessed this several times with WNJU Linden, on the numerous occasions when their PSIP failed to identify as virtual 47-1 and instead revealed RF 36-3. I also experienced it on two rare occasions when the PSIP at WCBS-TV failed to identify as virtual 2-1 and 2-2 and instead revealed RF 33-3 and 33-4.

*For viewers who do not yet reliably receive WJLP:* If you are attempting to tune into this station, you should still manually enter in channels 3, 3-1, and/or 3-10. DO NOT enter channel 33, as you will likely be redirected to WCBS-TV. If WJLP modifies its PSIP to reflect 33-1, 33-10, 33-100, or whatever, the PSIP will automatically redirect accordingly as soon as you lock in to the station, thus establishing a link between RF 3 and whatever virtual channel number is designated.



Greg2600 said:


> This is good. My SD-OTA box picked up 3-10 but my LCD TV's tuner would not, and neither did my PC's tuner. Didn't like the dash 10.


Greg, are you saying that the only reason your LCD TV and PC tuner did not receive the channel was because of the minor channel designation? Can you absolutely rule out poor signal as a cause?



Aero 1 said:


> CBS is not on virtual 33, its on RF 33. big difference that you are confusing. WJLP will stay on RF 3 but wants to broadcast on virtual 33.


Slight correction, Aero 1: WJLP doesn't want to broadcast on virtual 33, they are being temporarily forced to

I really sympathize with PMCM TV on this one. They are the only broadcast station as a party to these proceedings that has both currently and historically broadcasted on RF channel 3, and yet they are essentially being prohibited from enjoying the branding rights that accompany that birthright.

I have read the entire interim ruling, issued today by the FCC. It should be noted that KYW-TV Philadelphia, to the best of my knowledge, had not initiated any informal or formal objections to any aspect of PMCM TV's operations, and it appears to me that the station has been indirectly brought into the dispute to add muscle to Meredith Corporation's position. It further appears that ION Media and/or the FCC is attempting to recruit the ION affiliate WHPX-TV New London for the same purpose.

ION Media License Company's WPXN-TV New York is only an interested party due to their channel position on ONE major cable system in the New York City metropolitan area, Cablevision. Anyone who has watched this station via Cablevision can verify that at no time does WPXN-TV identify itself as "3", "channel 3", or any variation thereof. Furthermore, the legal call-sign, as broadcast OTA at the TOH, is omitted from the feed delivered by ION to Cablevision's headend. Additionally, WPXN-TV broadcasts no meaningful locally or nationally produced programming that specifically targets important local issues affecting people within New York City or its metropolitan area. In my view, these facts render ION's position in this matter as disingenuous.


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> *For viewers who already reliably receive WJLP:* I strongly believe that if the PSIP channel number is changed from 3-10, you will NOT need to rescan because the channel number should automatically change to whatever number is designated by the station's engineers, pursuant of course to regulatory approval.
> 
> I have personally witnessed this several times with WNJU Linden, on the numerous occasions when their PSIP failed to identify as virtual 47-1 and instead revealed RF 36-3. I also experienced it on two rare occasions when the PSIP at WCBS-TV failed to identify as virtual 2-1 and 2-2 and instead revealed RF 33-3 and 33-4.


This is true for *some* receivers but certainly not all. My parents have a TV which drops an entire station from the lineup, all subchannels, if the PSIP changes or a subchannel is added or removed. I've seen plenty of receivers that don't behave as anticipated.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> *For viewers who do not yet reliably receive WJLP:* If you are attempting to tune into this station, you should still manually enter in channels 3, 3-1, and/or 3-10. DO NOT enter channel 33, as you will likely be redirected to WCBS-TV. If WJLP modifies its PSIP to reflect 33-1, 33-10, 33-100, or whatever, the PSIP will automatically redirect accordingly as soon as you lock in to the station, thus establishing a link between RF 3 and whatever virtual channel number is designated.


Not all TVs allow you to directly tune. My Samsung TVs do not allow direct tuning. So, again, you probably shouldn't generalize your TV experiences to everyone.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Greg, are you saying that the only reason your LCD TV and PC tuner did not receive the channel was because of the minor channel designation? Can you absolutely rule out poor signal as a cause?


I can't answer for Greg, but I've definitely seen TVs that don't handle odd channel layouts. I own a 7 inch TV that would not scan in WAHU-CD in Charlottesville which has a 27-1, 27-2, and 19-2.

- Trip


----------



## Greg2600

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Greg, are you saying that the only reason your LCD TV and PC tuner did not receive the channel was because of the minor channel designation? Can you absolutely rule out poor signal as a cause?


Can't rule it out. On my PC, I normally use Windows Media Center, and that at least will find all the local low power stations. They don't come in, and will show one bar on the signal strength. This channel isn't found at all. It's so strange because like I said, the Insignia SD box in the next room over picked it up no problem.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


Trip in VA said:


> This is true for *some* receivers but certainly not all. My parents have a TV which drops an entire station from the lineup, all subchannels, if the PSIP changes or a subchannel is added or removed. I've seen plenty of receivers that don't behave as anticipated.
> 
> {quoted text}
> 
> Not all TVs allow you to directly tune. My Samsung TVs do not allow direct tuning. So, again, you probably shouldn't generalize your TV experiences to everyone.
> 
> {quoted text}
> 
> I can't answer for Greg, but I've definitely seen TVs that don't handle odd channel layouts. I own a 7 inch TV that would not scan in WAHU-CD in Charlottesville which has a 27-1, 27-2, and 19-2.
> 
> - Trip


All good points here. I agree that there is not a "one size fits all" solution to deal with PSIP or channel lineup changes. My suggestions were based on the majority of experiences I have encountered and, as with all other advice preferred, should not be inferred to be the only or ultimate solution to any specific issue encountered by a viewer.

I think the tricky part in this situation is that for the majority of viewers using indoor antennas to receive WJLP, a full-power VHF-Lo signal, there may or may not be certain "sweet spots" that can only be found by having the TV tuner or digital-to-analog STB already tuned to RF 3 in order to determine whether adjusting or relocating the indoor antenna will realize a passable or usable signal.

Let's consider, as an example, a viewer who is using a TV or STB that does not have the ability to manually tune a station: That viewer - we'll call him "Tom" because "Dick" and "Harry" could run afoul of FCC decency standards - presumably connects the antenna and scans for all available stations. In the first scan, the antenna is not positioned optimally for this signal (unbeknownst to Tom) and the scan misses WJLP. Tom then readjusts the antenna, rescans, and not only again misses WJLP, but loses channels previously added because the antenna is now repositioned less favorably for Tom's viewing area. So far, Tom has performed two unsuccessful scans, and is presumably nowhere near achieving his original goal which was to simply add RF 3 to his current DTV lineup. As I see it, Tom is exhausting significant valuable time in this scenario, and there SHOULD be a better way for him to achieve his very reasonable goal.

Because the FCC and the federal government did not establish consumer-friendly universal selectivity and tuning standards for all TV tuners and STBs sold within the borders of the U.S.A., Tom will be forced to either endure this time-consuming ritual each time a TV station objects to PMCM TV's virtual channel number and each time PMCM TV or any other broadcast station adds or modifies its TVCT. Tom's only alternate option, should he wish to continue being an OTA viewer, is to obtain a new or different TV or STB and _hope_ that the new device will be more consumer-friendly by way of its tuner.

The All-Channel Receiver Act of 1962 is perhaps the best example of an appropriate response by the federal government to a situation in which television viewers were being deprived of the ability to receive many new channels, and to that end it exceeded its goal.

While the Act does not provide for the tuning selectivity criteria I eluded to in the prior paragraph, it does mandate that all tuners (excepting M/H devices) have to receive all available channels. The tuners manufactured today are compliant, but there is no mandated provision for consumers to have the same level of control they enjoyed in the Analog era. The fate of that seems to have been abdicated by the FCC and shifted to set manufacturers, each of which take a different approach to tuner design.

Regarding odd channel layouts: I am presently using an LCD television that displays the OTA streams for WNYW and WWOR-TV interestingly. Here are my lineups for those channels:

WNYW 
5-3 (WNYW SD), 5-1 (WNYW HD), 5-2 (Movies!)

WWOR-TV
9-1 (WWOR-TV HD), 9-3 (Bounce), 9-4 (MundoFx), 9-2 (WWOR-TV SD)

Rescanning does not change the orders in which the streams are arranged.


----------



## Trip in VA

Interesting. In that case you provide, it's putting the RF38 channels before the RF44 channels, and THEN sorting by virtual channel number.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

My Interesting Experience,


I have 2 antennas outside. One UHF only and one only Hi VHF. Yesterday when I turned my DTVPAL DVR on it immediately displayed that it added 3.10 to the station line up. However when I tried to go to that station nothing showed up....no reception.


So I then checked my Samsung TV tuner and my DVR+ tuners to see if they pulled in 3.10 and nothing. 


Must have been an anomaly due to tropospheric ducting with the recent weather that the DTVPAL DVR tuner picked up 3.10 even though I don't have a low VHF antenna.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> so youre saying if i plug in 3 then it would goto metv, ok got that but it would display 33 on my stb? but i would not be to get metv if i plugged 33 directly, unlike a regular channel. yes no


i dont know what would happen if you enter 3 where it would go on your equipment. I have never own anything or seen anything new that will tune the actual RF channel, only the virtual. I keep noticing that this forum is full of people who have old equipment so i guess its possible that you are one of those and have a box that can tune the RF channel. if WJLP moved to virtual 33.1 then you would enter 33.1 even though they remain on RF 3. Right now, in my case, i enter 3.10.


----------



## veedon

So, is the FCC, at least temporarily, going to require WJLP to display virtual channel 33, which would force the station to suspend its already initiated marketing efforts to brand itself in the public's mind as "MeTV3 New York and New Jersey"?

I guess that WJLP would still have a right to invoke must-carry status on the cable systems, regardless of the ultimate decision regarding the virtual channel number. But if WJLP is forced to use virtual channel 33, then it will be hard to convince the cable systems to let WJLP have the channel 3 slot on the cable lineup. 

Also, an "interim" decision could wind up being in effect a final decision because if the station has to temporarily market itself as Channel 33 to agree with the displayed virtual channel number, then going back to marketing itself as Channel 3 later on would only confuse the public.

Frankly, the station and the FCC should have hammered all this out long ago, before the station launched.


----------



## veedon

Aero 1 said:


> i dont know what would happen if you enter 3 where it would go on your equipment. I have never own anything or seen anything new that will tune the actual RF channel, only the virtual. I keep noticing that this forum is full of people who have old equipment so i guess its possible that you are one of those and have a box that can tune the RF channel. if WJLP moved to virtual 33.1 then you would enter 33.1 even though they remain on RF 3. Right now, in my case, i enter 3.10.


Many flat panel TV sets have a manual tuning feature that allows the user to enter the RF channel number. Then, if the tuner is able to lock in the channel, then the PSIP info comes through and the virtual channel number is added to the set's list of known channels.


----------



## unsmiley

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey unsmiley,
> 
> Where are you located, and what brands and model numbers are both of your analog to digital converter boxes?
> 
> Perhaps the converter box cannot display "3.10" until it receives the PSIP information from the broadcaster. Once the station is received, the "3.1" may change to "3.10" This I why I recently suggested to another OTA viewer who had problems receiving WJLP and has a similar setup to yours to manually enter "3.1"
> 
> You should know that her reception problem was satisfactorily resolved with the helpful suggestions from myself and others on this forum.
> 
> 
> Hard to determine the cause of your reception problems without some testing. Based on your post here, the causes could be the tuner or the location of the TV.
> 
> What I can confirm is that the four channel 3 subchannels are or were from WBQM-LD. WBQM-LD transmits on UHF channel 50, and last identified with virtual channels 3-1 through 3-4 in November 2013. That being said, it is plausible that the weak signal you were detecting was, in fact, that of WJLP.
> 
> 
> The rescan, IMHO, is an overused panacea that rarely resolves reception problems. Local broadcasters, from the small independent station to major market network O&O affiliates, are oftentimes just as guilty as the most well-meaning hobbyist when suggesting that viewers rescan their devices.
> 
> The worst example is when a new subchannel is added and the station announces that viewers can obtain it by rescanning. The fact is that MOST new subchannels automatically are added to consumer equipment as soon as they are lit up by the broadcaster, so long as the channel is already added on the consumer equipment.
> 
> Receiving VHF-Lo television stations requires extensive patience and a time commitment for plenty of trial-and-error. If a viewer does not have the appropriate attic or rooftop antenna with VHF-Lo elements, that viewer can expect the aforesaid challenges.
> 
> *MY SUGGESTIONS:* I will offer the same suggestion to you as I did two weeks ago to the viewer I referenced above.
> 
> Be sure the Rabbit-Ear antenna is securely and snugly connected to the Converter Box. Using the numeric keypad, manually tune the TV/Converter Box to RF 3, 3-1, and/or 3-10. Extend the rabbit-ear elements fully and position the elements so they are parallel to the floor.
> 
> It is essential that the converter box is tuned to RF 3 while you are adjusting the antenna. That is the only way you can ascertain in real time whether or not you can obtain a useable signal.
> 
> One other thing: It is advisable to wait to try this until the present weather system consisting of rain and wind moves out of the area. The current forecast calls for this to occur late this afternoon.


My digital to analog converter box is a Digital Stream DTX9900 from Radio Shack (which is hooked up to my old analog tube Sony Wega Trinitron 27" TV). My other TV (the one that successfully picks up Me-TV) is a modern LCD screen Sony Bravia 32BX300 that has a built in tuner (ie: no digital to analog converter necessary).

I am located on the Upper East Side of Manhattan on the 12th floor of a high rise.

I will try your antenna suggestion when I get home.


----------



## unsmiley

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey unsmiley,
> 
> Where are you located, and what brands and model numbers are both of your analog to digital converter boxes?
> 
> Perhaps the converter box cannot display "3.10" until it receives the PSIP information from the broadcaster. Once the station is received, the "3.1" may change to "3.10" This I why I recently suggested to another OTA viewer who had problems receiving WJLP and has a similar setup to yours to manually enter "3.1"
> 
> You should know that her reception problem was satisfactorily resolved with the helpful suggestions from myself and others on this forum.
> 
> 
> Hard to determine the cause of your reception problems without some testing. Based on your post here, the causes could be the tuner or the location of the TV.
> 
> What I can confirm is that the four channel 3 subchannels are or were from WBQM-LD. WBQM-LD transmits on UHF channel 50, and last identified with virtual channels 3-1 through 3-4 in November 2013. That being said, it is plausible that the weak signal you were detecting was, in fact, that of WJLP.
> 
> 
> The rescan, IMHO, is an overused panacea that rarely resolves reception problems. Local broadcasters, from the small independent station to major market network O&O affiliates, are oftentimes just as guilty as the most well-meaning hobbyist when suggesting that viewers rescan their devices.
> 
> The worst example is when a new subchannel is added and the station announces that viewers can obtain it by rescanning. The fact is that MOST new subchannels automatically are added to consumer equipment as soon as they are lit up by the broadcaster, so long as the channel is already added on the consumer equipment.
> 
> Receiving VHF-Lo television stations requires extensive patience and a time commitment for plenty of trial-and-error. If a viewer does not have the appropriate attic or rooftop antenna with VHF-Lo elements, that viewer can expect the aforesaid challenges.
> 
> *MY SUGGESTIONS:* I will offer the same suggestion to you as I did two weeks ago to the viewer I referenced above.
> 
> Be sure the Rabbit-Ear antenna is securely and snugly connected to the Converter Box. Using the numeric keypad, manually tune the TV/Converter Box to RF 3, 3-1, and/or 3-10. Extend the rabbit-ear elements fully and position the elements so they are parallel to the floor.
> 
> It is essential that the converter box is tuned to RF 3 while you are adjusting the antenna. That is the only way you can ascertain in real time whether or not you can obtain a useable signal.
> 
> One other thing: It is advisable to wait to try this until the present weather system consisting of rain and wind moves out of the area. The current forecast calls for this to occur late this afternoon.


Update: *Giacomo Siffredi, *Your antenna trick works!  

I tuned channel 3.1 on the converter box, and it jumped to (and displayed) 3.10, and bang -- I am getting Me-TV!! I then was able to add the channel and save it as a favorite on my converter box. I haven't played with it yet, but will this mean I have to move the antenna to the parallel to floor position every time I want to view Me-TV?


----------



## foxycat

*WNYE still gone*

I haven't been able to get WNYE, ch 25 on OTA here, for 4 months. "Democracy Now" is a necessity! I'm in Westchester County, just north of NYC, and I have an outdoor antenna that I use indoors. (Yes, it works beautifully.) I have an analog TV with a converter box, but don't know if that makes a difference. When I try any of the ch 25 stations, 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, I get ch 24 instead. In July I posted that I had lost the station, and there was a reply about the station coming back after some upgrades. 4 months? 


(Why is the default avatar a glass of water flying horizontally through the air? ;-)


----------



## nyctveng

foxycat said:


> I haven't been able to get WNYE, ch 25 on OTA here, for 4 months. "Democracy Now" is a necessity! I'm in Westchester County, just north of NYC, and I have an outdoor antenna that I use indoors. (Yes, it works beautifully.) I have an analog TV with a converter box, but don't know if that makes a difference. When I try any of the ch 25 stations, 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, I get ch 24 instead. In July I posted that I had lost the station, and there was a reply about the station coming back after some upgrades. 4 months?
> 
> 
> (Why is the default avatar a glass of water flying horizontally through the air? ;-)


For now you can get your Democracy Now via their online stream/podcast


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Congratulations, unsmiley!*

Congratulations, unsmiley! 


unsmiley said:


> Update: *Giacomo Siffredi, *Your antenna trick works!
> 
> I tuned channel 3.1 on the converter box, and it jumped to (and displayed) 3.10, and bang -- I am getting Me-TV!! I then was able to add the channel and save it as a favorite on my converter box. I haven't played with it yet, but will this mean I have to move the antenna to the parallel to floor position every time I want to view Me-TV?


I am very happy that I was able to successfully assist you to receive WJLP.

Yes, I anticipate your antenna will need to remain oriented in this position in order to receive the station.

What you now have to determine is how your reception for other TV stations is while the antenna is positioned in this manner. Unless you find your reception for other stations is compromised, I would not readjust the antenna.

If the antenna is readjusted for whatever reason, you will not permanently lose WJLP because getting reception back is as simple as returning the antenna to the WJLP viewing position.

Here is what you should now do: Do not rescan. With the antenna now oriented for reception of WJLP, you should tune through each station using "channel up" to determine if you continue to receive all of the stations you did before, and if any of the stations are weaker or missing. Please report back here with the results when you test this out.


----------



## LenL

foxycat said:


> I haven't been able to get WNYE, ch 25 on OTA here, for 4 months. "Democracy Now" is a necessity! I'm in Westchester County, just north of NYC, and I have an outdoor antenna that I use indoors. (Yes, it works beautifully.) I have an analog TV with a converter box, but don't know if that makes a difference. When I try any of the ch 25 stations, 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, I get ch 24 instead. In July I posted that I had lost the station, and there was a reply about the station coming back after some upgrades. 4 months?
> 
> 
> (Why is the default avatar a glass of water flying horizontally through the air? ;-)


 
It did come back for me about a week or so ago. Now I get it in the mid 80's while before it was under 60% and dropping out or completely gone.


WNYE Ch 25 is actually real channel 24. 25 is the virtual or display channel. Your problem may be that for your device you may have to do a rescan to pick up new found channels.


When you keyed in 25 this is the real channel number for virtual channel 24. As an alternative you can try keying in 24 and you might tune in WNYE 25.1.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

foxycat said:


> (Why is the default avatar a glass of water flying horizontally through the air? ;-)


Because the *Dinosaur Holding Up The World* avatar was too badass to assign to every forum member 



LenL said:


> WNYE Ch 25 is actually real channel 24. 25 is the virtual or display channel. Your problem may be that for your device you may have to do a rescan to pick up new found channels.
> 
> When you keyed in 25 this is the real channel number for virtual channel 24. As an alternative you can try keying in 24 and you might tune in WNYE 25.1.


Good suggestions, Len. Foxycat should try them.

But honestly, this kind of thing is a perfect example of another way the FCC and the federal government screwed up the DTV transition. The mess of WNYE-TV and WASA is stupid. I know, WNYE-TV was on RF 24 pre-transition, and remained there, and there were hundreds of great reasons they did, blah blah blah...

But in this case, WNYE-TV was ONE CHANNEL AWAY from RF 25. WNYE-TV intended to continue identifying as "25" both through PSIP and on-air branding. The station management should have secured authorization, and the engineers should have retuned the transmitter to broadcast on RF 25 after midnight on June 12, 2009. That would have left RF 24 free and clear for future use and appropriate branding. Instead, WNYE-TV remained on RF 24 but demanded no one else identify as "25", and shortly thereafter WASA-LD Port Jervis was permitted to move its transmitter to Manhattan and broadcast from ESB on RF 25. That station originally identified with its former analog channel, "64", but then changed to "24".

Most consumer equipment provides end users no ability to manually enter an RF channel. Most of those consumers are left with only the rescan option. If the rescan fails to see both signals, the consumer is deprived of one or the other.

Virtual channel numbers are necessary, but the implementation was flawed. And any flaws are more prominent in major markets in which the majority of channels are occupied.


----------



## uhfyagi

good point rocco, but who is gonna care in 5-10 years when ota is just fleeting memory.


----------



## foxycat

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Because the *Dinosaur Holding Up The World* avatar was too badass to assign to every forum member


Actually, he's one of the original Netscape-Mozilla logos from way back when. Here's my entire collection:
https://picasaweb.google.com/gertyutz2/Mozilla?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqm8qPS-eLviQE&feat=directlink

The glass of water is as good as any other guess.


Oops, never looked at their website. It's not just "Democracy Now," but a number of non-commercial shows I watched as a supplement to PBS. This happened years after the conversion to digital, and I don't understand the technical aspects of this, am not an A-V geek. Have they fixed whatever was wrong with it? I'll try a rescan tonight, but if I can't get back 25, is it gone forever? Or at least till my TV dies and I'm forced to buy a digital one?


----------



## foxycat

uhfyagi said:


> good point rocco, but who is gonna care in 5-10 years when ota is just fleeting memory.


There is still a portion of Americans, mostly elderly I suspect, who can't afford to pay for TV reception, and rely on OTA. I read some stats when researching for an antenna, maybe on this site or antennaweb. Then there are those who can't afford TV service and buy cable anyway, because TV is one of the most important things in their life. I am not one of those.


----------



## Aero 1

foxycat said:


> Actually, he's one of the original Netscape-Mozilla logos from way back when. Here's my entire collection:
> https://picasaweb.google.com/gertyutz2/Mozilla?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqm8qPS-eLviQE&feat=directlink
> 
> The glass of water is as good as any other guess.
> 
> 
> Oops, never looked at their website. It's not just "Democracy Now," but a number of non-commercial shows I watched as a supplement to PBS. This happened years after the conversion to digital, and I don't understand the technical aspects of this, am not an A-V geek. Have they fixed whatever was wrong with it? I'll try a rescan tonight, but if I can't get back 25, is it gone forever? Or at least till my TV dies and I'm forced to buy a digital one?


they went back to full power a month ago and its back to normal. im getting it at about 90%. you can see here: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNYE-TV

you're not giving us enough information about your setup. many, many, many factors can cause this. is your antenna outside? did it move? did an element break? etc, etc.


----------



## foxycat

Aero 1 said:


> they went back to full power a month ago and its back to normal. im getting it at about 90%. you can see here: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNYE-TV
> 
> you're not giving us enough information about your setup. many, many, many factors can cause this. is your antenna outside? did it move? did an element break? etc, etc.


Antenna's in the same place, no, not outside, not allowed in my apt. bldg.
Nothing has broken. Just re-scanned, and it's back! But I'd like to understand the problem. Was ch 24 too close to 25, and WNYE needed a more powerful signal?

I have such a clever setup. :-D No one else in my bldg or any of my friends know you can get reception without cable or FIOS. They all question me like I have green horns sprouting from my head. I also have a number of stations I didn't have before the changeover to digital.


----------



## foxycat

I don't suppose anyone knows how I can get back WLIW (ch 21 here) which I lost in the conversion? Without paying for cable of FIOS.


----------



## Greg2600

So FWIW, I'll just update my WJLP results. As I said, a SD-only Insignia receiver using old rabbit ears picked up the station and assigned 3-10. As did my Sony Bravia LCD TV (I use this with FIOS but just for testing tried it with the rabbit ears). My cheap-O COBY LCD TV will not pick it up, although it will not accept entry of ANY double digit subchannel (-10). The HD/ATSC Happauge TV card in my PC won't tune it either. So my theory is that the assignment of the double-digit channel suffix will not be compatible with all tuners. Will see for sure once they change to 33-1. When is this happening?


----------



## Aero 1

foxycat said:


> Antenna's in the same place, no, not outside, not allowed in my apt. bldg.
> Nothing has broken. Just re-scanned, and it's back! But I'd like to understand the problem. Was ch 24 too close to 25, and WNYE needed a more powerful signal?
> 
> I have such a clever setup. :-D No one else in my bldg or any of my friends know you can get reception without cable or FIOS. They all question me like I have green horns sprouting from my head. I also have a number of stations I didn't have before the changeover to digital.


they were doing work on the antenna at 4 times square when they reduced power months ago, we think it was the installation of the WJLP antenna. when that ended, WNYE went back to full power.


----------



## unsmiley

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Congratulations, unsmiley!
> 
> I am very happy that I was able to successfully assist you to receive WJLP.
> 
> Yes, I anticipate your antenna will need to remain oriented in this position in order to receive the station.
> 
> What you now have to determine is how your reception for other TV stations is while the antenna is positioned in this manner. Unless you find your reception for other stations is compromised, I would not readjust the antenna.
> 
> If the antenna is readjusted for whatever reason, you will not permanently lose WJLP because getting reception back is as simple as returning the antenna to the WJLP viewing position.
> 
> Here is what you should now do: Do not rescan. With the antenna now oriented for reception of WJLP, you should tune through each station using "channel up" to determine if you continue to receive all of the stations you did before, and if any of the stations are weaker or missing. Please report back here with the results when you test this out.


I am leaving the antenna in this slightly inconvenient (parallel to floor) position to assure reception of Me-TV. I seem to be getting all the stations I did receive before. The WJLP reception is generally good, except like my reception of WNET 13, there are some drop outs when I walk around certain spots in the apartment. Would elevating the antenna stop this? Also why is there no EPG (programming guide) information with WJLP?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Trip in VA said:


> Interesting. In that case you provide, it's putting the RF38 channels before the RF44 channels, and THEN sorting by virtual channel number.
> 
> - Trip


And if I was a TV tuner, I would perform the same way 



uhfyagi said:


> good point rocco, but who is gonna care in 5-10 years when ota is just fleeting memory.


It stinks how the federal government is attempting to marginalize broadcast television to profit the big campaign donor cellular companies. I wish it wasn't true and I could say it's only smellz....



foxycat said:


> Actually, he's one of the original Netscape-Mozilla logos from way back when. Here's my entire collection:
> https://picasaweb.google.com/gertyutz2/Mozilla?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqm8qPS-eLviQE&feat=directlink
> 
> The glass of water is as good as any other guess.


Yep. Nice vintage collection you have there


----------



## speedlaw

I have such a clever setup. :-D No one else in my bldg or any of my friends know you can get reception without cable or FIOS. They all question me like I have green horns sprouting from my head. I also have a number of stations I didn't have before the changeover to digital.[/QUOTE]

I live in a suburban house with antenna on roof. My neighbors are all amazed I don't send $100 per month to the cableco....they all HATE that bill. Still, even though I offered to help get them OTA, no takers-the concept of putting up an antenna is outside the box. Don't miss cabletv at all, really. Getting John Stewart in realtime isn't worth $1200 per year (sorry John), and you can get it via hulu next day. Kudos on you getting RF 3 indoors.

My Sony HDD tuner lets you go for RF channel, then you can tune up or down for subchannels. My Tivo isn't as engineer oriented, but found 3.10 with no issues. Interestingly, the guide on Tivo has "no listings" for 3.10, saying To Be Announced.....

I have the same issue with WASA locking up as virtual 3.1, yet can't get a picture. The Sony allows .10, so it works...and at 88%, 40 miles north of NYC-not bad for 3, but back in analog days, I could TX DX 3 from Philadelphia when the band opened, sometimes more than TV 2 !.

Oh, and I can't get WLIW.....it is just in the wrong direction, a few big hills are in the way....


----------



## Greg2600

speedlaw said:


> I live in a suburban house with antenna on roof. My neighbors are all amazed I don't send $100 per month to the cableco....they all HATE that bill. Still, even though I offered to help get them OTA, no takers-the concept of putting up an antenna is outside the box. Don't miss cabletv at all, really. Getting John Stewart in realtime isn't worth $1200 per year (sorry John), and you can get it via hulu next day. Kudos on you getting RF 3 indoors.


Pro sports and HBO/Showtime series programming are the biggest reasons for cable buy-in. Once they become more available outside cable that may turn the tide.


----------



## uhfyagi

Greg2600 said:


> Pro sports and HBO/Showtime series programming are the biggest reasons for cable buy-in. Once they become more available outside cable that may turn the tide.


never happening, everything is on cable, pretty sure the world series and superbowl will be on cable only in 5-10 years


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> never happening, everything is on cable, pretty sure the world series and superbowl will be on cable only in 5-10 years


No way, more people watched the Super Bowl last year than than the amount of paid tv subs in the whole country by 13 million people. Every year the amount of people that watch the SB increases while paid tv subs decrease.


----------



## dvdchance

Don't be so sure. HBO announced a streaming only product set to be available early in 2015. 

Sports might be more of a holdout since many of the sports networks are owned at least partly by the cable companies, but never say never.

Even though they inherited it, Comcast is one of the owners of Hulu so they are somewhat familar with the streaming game too.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> No way, more people watched the Super Bowl last year than than the amount of paid tv subs in the whole country by 13 million people. Every year the amount of people that watch the SB increases while paid tv subs decrease.


my bad, I meant major sport events will not be on ota, only available online stream aka ppv.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> No way, more people watched the Super Bowl last year than than the amount of paid tv subs in the whole country by 13 million people. Every year the amount of people that watch the SB increases while paid tv subs decrease.


my bad, I meant major sport events will not be on ota, only available online stream aka ppv. networks don't want give anything free, when they can make a profit, and aero fiasco adds more fuel.


----------



## icemannyr

Still can't get WJLP OTA however WJLP was just added to FiOS and I don't like the 14:9 cropping of the MeTV feed they are doing. 
The MeTV feed seems to have a lot of digital compression on the shows broadcast.


----------



## uhfyagi

icemannyr said:


> Still can't get WJLP OTA however WJLP was just added to FiOS and I don't like the 14:9 cropping of the MeTV feed they are doing.
> The MeTV feed seems to have a lot of digital compression on the shows broadcast.


is metv in Hd thru fios ?


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> is metv in Hd thru fios ?


metv via OTA is already broadcast in 720p HD. Fios would use the same feed.


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> my bad, I meant major sport events will not be on ota, only available online stream aka ppv. networks don't want give anything free, when they can make a profit, and aero fiasco adds more fuel.


major sports events like the World Series, Super Bowl, Olympics will be on free tv for the foreseeable future while niche events like boxing, wrestling, UFC wil appear on PPV and/or online streaming. The major events primary revenue source is from advertising from the hardcore and casual viewer. NFL can't make money the same amount of money if it were online only.


----------



## AloEuro

foxycat said:


> I haven't been able to get WNYE, ch 25 on OTA here, for 4 months. "Democracy Now" is a necessity! I'm in Westchester County, just north of NYC, and I have an outdoor antenna that I use indoors. (Yes, it works beautifully.) I have an analog TV with a converter box, but don't know if that makes a difference. When I try any of the ch 25 stations, 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, I get ch 24 instead. In July I posted that I had lost the station, and there was a reply about the station coming back after some upgrades. 4 months?
> 
> 
> Ch.25-1 NYLIFE 1080i
> 25-2 NYGov 480i
> 25-3 CUNY 720p Sometime it gives blue screen, most of the time it is good 4miles away, Democracy now for you, Wallenberg for me


----------



## foxycat

AloEuro said:


> Ch.25-1 NYLIFE *1080i*
> 25-2 NYGov *480i*
> 25-3 CUNY *720p * Sometime it gives blue screen, most of the time it is good 4miles away, Democracy now for you, Wallenberg for me


I don't understand what this ( in red) means. Are you saying you have a TV card in your computer?


----------



## LenL

*Foxy*

I know what the items in red mean but I'm not sure what he is trying to convey to you.


The items in red are simply how the transmitter is sending those stations in terms of frame resolution or scan type. 720p and 1080i are the best for HD TV viewing.


----------



## unsmiley

I now see that WJLP Me-TV is finally supplying an electronic programming guide (EPG).


----------



## rothe

*WLIW reception improvement*

Did WLIW make any substantial changes to their transmission system within the past few days? I ask because I'm suddenly having far fewer errors in the files that I capture via my home theater PC, and this is during this foul weather that we've had for the past couple of days. Normally, the signal drops down to nearly nothing during such weather, which is the expected result of foul weather since I'm receiving that 50-mile-away station via double edge diffraction. The only change I've made at my end is a recent upgrade of capture card drivers on Thursday 10/31/2014. From many years of experience with this particular HTPC setup, that *never* makes any noticeable difference in reception or error rates. Except maybe this time.

Does anybody have any other explanation?


----------



## George Molnar

rothe said:


> Did WLIW make any substantial changes to their transmission system within the past few days? I ask because I'm suddenly having far fewer errors in the files that I capture via my home theater PC, and this is during this foul weather that we've had for the past couple of days. Normally, the signal drops down to nearly nothing during such weather, which is the expected result of foul weather since I'm receiving that 50-mile-away station via double edge diffraction. The only change I've made at my end is a recent upgrade of capture card drivers on Thursday 10/31/2014. From many years of experience with this particular HTPC setup, that *never* makes any noticeable difference in reception or error rates. Except maybe this time.
> 
> Does anybody have any other explanation?


Have nearby trees shed a lot of leaves.?


----------



## rothe

George Molnar said:


> Have nearby trees shed a lot of leaves.?


Nope. In this case, I receive WLIW via a dedicated antenna that has a line-of-site from my roof to the horizon in the direction of the transmitter. If I am identifying my landmarks correctly, that has my antenna - located a half-mile inland in Ocean Grove, NJ - looking over the Atlantic Ocean towards Coney Island. No trees. No tall buildings. Nothing within a fairly wide aperture towards the transmitter.

Of course, just as we start kicking this around, I have a couple of shows that didn't come through well at all. Let's chalk it up to atmospherics. Maybe my neighbors over at WYGG-FM - low power amateurs that are a half-mile from my home - are having some trouble with their gear again. They've been known to overdrive audio into their transmitter pretty regularly, and I've regularly measured an RF signal strength reduction for them during wet weather. So they always seem to present a wild-card for fringe reception of some stations for me.

By the way, they're rumored to also be one of many sources of pirate broadcasts in the Brooklyn area, and I'm sure that could adversely affect reception for some nearby OTA viewers.


----------



## veedon

unsmiley said:


> I now see that WJLP Me-TV is finally supplying an electronic programming guide (EPG).



And it's calling itself Channel 3, not Channel 33, isn't it?
Is the station on any provider other than Verizon Fios?

The FCC should hurry up and make a final decision.


----------



## uhfyagi

*wliw*



rothe said:


> Nope. In this case, I receive WLIW via a dedicated antenna that has a line-of-site from my roof to the horizon in the direction of the transmitter. If I am identifying my landmarks correctly, that has my antenna - located a half-mile inland in Ocean Grove, NJ - looking over the Atlantic Ocean towards Coney Island. No trees. No tall buildings. Nothing within a fairly wide aperture towards the transmitter.
> 
> Of course, just as we start kicking this around, I have a couple of shows that didn't come through well at all. Let's chalk it up to atmospherics. Maybe my neighbors over at WYGG-FM - low power amateurs that are a half-mile from my home - are having some trouble with their gear again. They've been known to overdrive audio into their transmitter pretty regularly, and I've regularly measured an RF signal strength reduction for them during wet weather. So they always seem to present a wild-card for fringe reception of some stations for me.
> 
> By the way, they're rumored to also be one of many sources of pirate broadcasts in the Brooklyn area, and I'm sure that could adversely affect reception for some nearby OTA viewers.


no improvement on wliw signal, but there is heck lots of leaves  
jk I switched off my summer antenna, Im using a winter antenna on my roof at the moment.


----------



## uhfyagi

I'm receiving stronger signal on most ota chs tonite. sure enough ckd dxinfocenter.com. were riding a good tropo for next day or two. 
enjoy the ride.


----------



## icemannyr

Does this mean CBS NY + on 2.2 is going away or moving to 2.3?

"WCBS-TV will continue to be available digitally as Channel 2.1 and DECADES will be available as Channel 2.2."

http://www.cbscorporation.com/news-article.php?id=1100


----------



## uhfyagi

yes It was briefed few weeks ago, frankly, glad to see news leave it had to go. too many negative things to point here. I could not stand seeing only half screen. if this new channel is the real deal the CBS library is extensive, I definitely will be tuned in


----------



## foxycat

error


----------



## uhfyagi

foxycat said:


> error


CBS sub 2.2 will be assigned to Decades, CBSNY will no put a second sub they preach about their superior pq.


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> CBS sub 2.2 will be assigned to Decades, CBSNY will no put a second sub they preach about their superior pq.


News 2.2 may move to WLNY. Quality of encoders has improved greatly that a 2nd subchannel wouldn't degrade the primary channel much. 2 HD channels and 2 subchannels was unheard of just a few years ago but yet WFUT is doing it now.


----------



## LenL

We already have more than enough sub stations showing old TV shows. I'm not happy with having another one. I do agree that 2.2 was a poorly implemented and CHEAP, CHEAP news sub channel. With all of its money, power and news people CBS could have done a killer job with live news like NEWS12 NJ from Cablevision but even bigger and better. That is what we are missing on OTA. Not another sub sending us back to the 50's and 60's.


My humble opinion.


----------



## LenL

*Hd tv*



foxycat said:


> error



Are you not viewing OTA with an HD TV?


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> We already have more than enough sub stations showing old TV shows. I'm not happy with having another one. I do agree that 2.2 was a poorly implemented and CHEAP, CHEAP news sub channel. With all of its money, power and news people CBS could have done a killer job with live news like NEWS12 NJ from Cablevision but even bigger and better. That is what we are missing on OTA. Not another sub sending us back to the 50's and 60's.
> 
> 
> My humble opinion.


I agree but news is expensive to produce even if it's recycled content looped hourly. The appeal of News 12 and NY1 News is that it is hyper local, something which CBS can't do cheaply. I think 2.2 is an experiment as CBS didn't seem to seek carriage of it on any cable system.

A network with Old TV shows is a fixed & predictable cost and seems to be working for others which is why CBS is launching a copycat.


----------



## veedon

CBS just launched a live streaming web channel for news, called CBSN.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/about-the-cbsn-live-streaming-video-channel/

Is there some reason why CBS cannot or will not put this on a subchannel of its O&O stations, and give other CBS affiliates the option of also carrying it?


----------



## foxycat

LenL said:


> Are you not viewing OTA with an HD TV?


No, I have a perfectly good analog TV which I use with a converter box. The picture is actually clearer than when the signals were analog. When it dies, I'll replace it with an HD.


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> CBS just launched a live streaming web channel for news, called CBSN.
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/about-the-cbsn-live-streaming-video-channel/
> 
> Is there some reason why CBS cannot or will not put this on a subchannel of its O&O stations, and give other CBS affiliates the option of also carrying it?


They may be giving it time to develop and/or just aiming the service at a younger demographic that don't watch news on TV.


----------



## veedon

nyctveng said:


> They may be giving it time to develop and/or just aiming the service at a younger demographic that don't watch news on TV.


That makes sense. I guess accessing the content via the web site also gives interactivity, the ability to decide whether to watch the current live stream or to stream older segments. And the ads can be tailored somewhat to the viewer's choice of program content.


----------



## uhfyagi

foxycat said:


> No, I have a perfectly good analog TV which I use with a converter box. The picture is actually clearer than when the signals were analog. When it dies, I'll replace it with an HD.


I agree with foxy, I use analog with zenith dtt990 box most old shows do look better on tube set than hd tv.


----------



## foxycat

uhfyagi said:


> I agree with foxy, I use analog with zenith dtt990 box most old shows do look better on tube set than hd tv.


I didn't imply it was better, only cheaper. An HD TV is not in my budget.


----------



## uhfyagi

my bad, I thought you meant otherwise, my opinion is that shows that were previously on analog TV, pq looks best on old set.


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> my bad, I thought you meant otherwise, my opinion is that shows that were previously on analog TV, pq looks best on old set.


I don't know why that would be the case, unless it's just that an old CRT typically has a smaller screen, so the lower resolution of standard definition is less noticeable than on a larger screen.

As far as why an analog CRT coupled with a converter box might show a better picture now than in the days of analog broadcasting, there could be two reasons for that. First, the digital OTA broadcast signal that the antenna receives might be a better quality signal than the old analog signal. Second, the tuner in the digital-to-analog converter box might be a higher quality tuner than the tuner in the analog TV set.


----------



## reddice

This past week WJLP has been stronger 4 out of 5 bars steady. I did run a rescan as I still can't get channel 31 at all no bars just low signal so it does not show up anymore.


----------



## George Molnar

veedon said:


> I don't know why that would be the case, unless it's just that an old CRT typically has a smaller screen, so the lower resolution of standard definition is less noticeable than on a larger screen.
> 
> As far as why an analog CRT coupled with a converter box might show a better picture now than in the days of analog broadcasting, there could be two reasons for that. First, the digital OTA broadcast signal that the antenna receives might be a better quality signal than the old analog signal. Second, the tuner in the digital-to-analog converter box might be a higher quality tuner than the tuner in the analog TV set.


And old analog sets showed impairments like snow and ghosts that are eliminated by the digital scheme.


----------



## icemannyr

nyctveng said:


> News 2.2 may move to WLNY. Quality of encoders has improved greatly that a 2nd subchannel wouldn't degrade the primary channel much. 2 HD channels and 2 subchannels was unheard of just a few years ago but yet WFUT is doing it now.


Did not realize WXTV and WFUT now carry the others channel as an HD Sub channel till you mentioned that.

I was wondering why the PQ on WXTV seemed to have more digital compression artifacts and macroblocking.


----------



## PaulFrancis

OMG...MeTv (3.10) is going off the air at midnight tonight! CBS, Ion and WFSB filed complaints with the FCC to force MeTv to change channels or stop broadcasting. This stinks!


----------



## Greg2600

PaulFrancis said:


> OMG...MeTv (3.10) is going off the air at midnight tonight! CBS, Ion and WFSB filed complaints with the FCC to force MeTv to change channels or stop broadcasting. This stinks!


They just have to switch to virtual channel 33, what's the big deal?


----------



## PaulFrancis

The big deal is that I enjoy this channel and it stinks that they have to go off the air because of CBS (stinks and unwatchable), Ion (the all-cop channel) and WFS...who?


----------



## unsmiley

Greg2600 said:


> They just have to switch to virtual channel 33, what's the big deal?


That is not what they are saying today, when the station manager has been cutting into broadcasts to apologize to us OTA viewers that we won't be able to view WJLP after midnight tonight. 

No mention of a channel switch by him (although I know a switch has been discussed in this forum.)


----------



## nyctveng

Greg2600 said:


> They just have to switch to virtual channel 33, what's the big deal?


The big deal is that this station spent millions moving the station cross country and counting on being carried in the #1 DMA on the coveted slot of channel 3, right between CBS & NBC over the air and on every cable system. If they move to 33, their viewership will only be a fraction of what it would've been if on 3. To the hard core viewers on this board, we'll watch and find it whether it's on 3, 33, or 333 but the casual channel surfer may never go beyond 13.


----------



## Greg2600

nyctveng said:


> The big deal is that this station spent millions moving the station cross country and counting on being carried in the #1 DMA on the coveted slot of channel 3, right between CBS & NBC over the air and on every cable system. If they move to 33, their viewership will only be a fraction of what it would've been if on 3. To the hard core viewers on this board, we'll watch and find it whether it's on 3, 33, or 333 but the casual channel surfer may never go beyond 13.


Well sorry but the station's owner used a loophole to "sneak" into that channel assignment. They must have realized this scenario was on the table. Is it equally fair for this startup to "infringe" on the legacy channels CBS, Ion, etc. run in NY, CT, and PA?

http://pmcmtv.com/Emergency-Motion-for-Stay-AS-FILED.PDF


----------



## PaulFrancis

The loophole was there to be taken advantage of. The FCC is pretending not to understand its own laws as a favor to the big boys (CBS, ION) and the insignificant station in that media mecca, Hartford, CT.)


----------



## veedon

Sounds as though the lawyers could be having some fun with this one down the road.
WJLP's Facebook page for MeTV3 New York is now urging viewers to go to the PMCMTV web site to read the station's latest petition (technically an Application For Review) to the FCC, which asks the Commission to overrule the Video Division.

WJLP's argument is very strongly worded, and it sounds a bit like something that could be turned into a filing in a federal court case if the Commission insists on compelling WJLP to use 33 as its virtual channel number.


----------



## veedon

And let's not forget that WJLP is a New Jersey station.
Maybe the governor of NJ will want to weigh in on this, too!


----------



## Trip in VA

PaulFrancis said:


> The FCC is pretending not to understand its own laws as a favor to the big boys (CBS, ION) and the insignificant station in that media mecca, Hartford, CT.)


Wow, I didn't know that the WJLP folks were reading here. Hello! The world won't end when you start mapping to 33-1, as the spirit of the rule requires.

- Trip


----------



## veedon

So, is WFSB in the NYC DMA, or is it in the Hartford, CT DMA?
Aren't there cases all over the country where stations using the same virtual channel number have overlapping coverage areas?


----------



## Trip in VA

It's irrelevant. The overlap is the objectionable part. The rule uses the word "market" but the intent was clearly to prevent major channel numbers from overlapping. That's always been the rationale behind the rule. My guess is that they used the word "market" just because in cases like this where you would say the overlap is prohibited and you should use the matching RF channel, it is unclear whether you should use 26-1 or 33-1 since different areas overlap different stations.

As for actual overlap, in every case where a station has complained, the FCC has always acted to remove those overlaps. The FCC has regulated with a light hand. If no station complains, the assumption is that everyone* is happy.

* Viewers don't count. If they did, WACP would be on 28-1 and KJWP would be on 38-1, so that those viewers who have tuners that don't like duplicate virtual channels would not have such issues. Fortunately, most viewers simply can't receive low-VHF due to noise or crappy antennas, so I suspect the vast majority of people don't even notice, and the few who do are simply ignored.

I will also point out that regulations for full-power stations are more stringent than those of low-power stations. Not counting WJLP, if you map out just the full-power stations, there are only a handful of cases of virtual channel overlaps in the entire country, WACP and KJWP being two of three, with the third involving stations that have the same virtual and physical channel so there can never be a problem between them anyway.

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

this is all about greed, FCC is so corrupted. pmcm has no chance if they gonna appeal the decision, IMHO we won't see pmcm tv3 ever again.


----------



## Trip in VA

Guess not. They'd rather go off the air than make a 15-second zero-cost change to their hardware.

- Trip


----------



## veedon

I'm not sure there is truly any way to avoid confusion as long as channels have two channel numbers, a "real" physical RF channel, and an "even more real (from a marketing standpoint)" virtual channel number.

WCBS is on RF33. But do viewers think of WCBS as being channel 33? I bet not. In the reality of the real world of marketing and consumer perception, as opposed to the reality of the eletromagnetic spectrum, WCBS is Channel 2.

WCBS and WNBC no doubt treasure being channels 2 and 4 in the public's mind.

And is there no room for a newcomer to be Channel 3? Are the big guys worried that some little guy will waltz in with programming that reminds viewers that the good old days were better than today, at least in terms of the quality of TV programming?

Maybe every station in the nation should be forced to identify itself by its MHz range.


----------



## PaulFrancis

Not when the goal was to have a prime channel slot between two major networks. Seems pointless for them now.


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> this is all about greed, FCC is so corrupted. pmcm has no chance if they gonna appeal the decision, IMHO we won't see pmcm tv3 ever again.


It may wind up in the courts.


----------



## PaulFrancis

Going to 33.1 would be a sign of capitulation for PCMC. There would be virtually no shot at getting 3.10 ever again.


----------



## uhfyagi

veedon said:


> It may wind up in the courts.


useless FCC been paid off


----------



## unsmiley

Well, as of midnight (EST), WJLP appears off the air .


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> useless FCC been paid off


I don't think that's true at all. 
The regulators are doing their best to deal with conflicts that arise when old laws and new technology collide.

Back when some of the laws were written, VHF was king, and there was no such thing as a virtual channel number.

I just wish that OTA viewers were always given higher priority than cable viewers. But that's because I loathe cable companies, their complicated channel lineups, and their horrible customer service.


----------



## rcodey

veedon said:


> I don't think that's true at all.
> The regulators are doing their best to deal with conflicts that arise when old laws and new technology collide.
> 
> Back when some of the laws were written, VHF was king, and there was no such thing as a virtual channel number.
> 
> I just wish that OTA viewers were always given higher priority than cable viewers. But that's because I loathe cable companies, their complicated channel lineups, and their horrible customer service.


WJLP is no longer on Ch. 503 on Verizon Fios in Northern NJ .


----------



## Vengabus (Richard)

Trip in VA said:


> It's irrelevant. The overlap is the objectionable part. The rule uses the word "market" but the intent was clearly to prevent major channel numbers from overlapping.


Agreed on all points.

I think the objection they filed may hurt them more than it helps. With overlaps with LPTV on Channel 26 and a tiny, tiny, tiny overlap on Channel 33 in Churchville, PA, they could have made the argument for Channel 1, which was the solution for the PSIP conflicts with KAXT. But the arguments they are making seem to kill alternative PSIP designations off. 

I also don't think KYW & WFSB should lose the rights to use 3.10 in the future. Both stations were around before 2002, when WJLP started on NTSC 3. 

Richard

PS: I'm a big fan of your site, Trip! I spend a somewhat unhealthy amount of time on it every day.


----------



## Greg2600

PaulFrancis said:


> Going to 33.1 would be a sign of capitulation for PCMC. There would be virtually no shot at getting 3.10 ever again.


So the goal here was to get onto virtual 3, sandwiched between 2 and 4, or else? This is completely ridiculous on their part. Sounds like a scam.

Once more, I just explained how many viewers won't even pick up 3.10 because of the 10. 33.1 would have worked better. 



uhfyagi said:


> useless FCC been paid off


Seriously? The FCC is going to care about one low power station that much? There were multiple entities to complained about this station, which again, came from another state. 



rcodey said:


> WJLP is no longer on Ch. 503 on Verizon Fios in Northern NJ .


FIOS probably would have left them on 3/503, gaining more viewers than anybody OTA. Dumb.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Trip in VA said:


> It's irrelevant. The overlap is the objectionable part. The rule uses the word "market" but the intent was clearly to prevent major channel numbers from overlapping. That's always been the rationale behind the rule. My guess is that they used the word "market" just because in cases like this where you would say the overlap is prohibited and you should use the matching RF channel, it is unclear whether you should use 26-1 or 33-1 since different areas overlap different stations.


There is a very stark difference between the intent of a law and the language of that same law. In a matter such as this, perhaps the intent was to obviate such conflicts, but if the language contradicts the intent, it is the actual wording that must prevail. Probable intent can be argued, usually litigated, but that usually follows when the original language is vague or subsequently contradicted by constructive facts. Based on the pleadings, I don't think that necessarily applies here.

Many laws, not exclusive to broadcasting, have unintended consequences because their language, even in the most minute ways, contradicts what some lawmaker thought would result. 

Remember the Telecommunications Act of 1996? That act had fine intentions for consumers. It's long title specifies it as: "An Act to promote competition and reduce regulation in order to secure lower prices and higher quality services for American telecommunications consumers and encourage the rapid deployment of new telecommunications technologies." How many consumers can say they are availed of more competition and lower prices now than were offered to them before this act became law?



Trip in VA said:


> As for actual overlap, in every case where a station has complained, the FCC has always acted to remove those overlaps. The FCC has regulated with a light hand. If no station complains, the assumption is that everyone* is happy.
> 
> * Viewers don't count. If they did, WACP would be on 28-1 and KJWP would be on 38-1, so that those viewers who have tuners that don't like duplicate virtual channels would not have such issues. Fortunately, most viewers simply can't receive low-VHF due to noise or crappy antennas, so I suspect the vast majority of people don't even notice, and the few who do are simply ignored.
> 
> I will also point out that regulations for full-power stations are more stringent than those of low-power stations. Not counting WJLP, if you map out just the full-power stations, there are only a handful of cases of virtual channel overlaps in the entire country, WACP and KJWP being two of three, with the third involving stations that have the same virtual and physical channel so there can never be a problem between them anyway.
> 
> - Trip


Viewers don't count in the minds of the the bureaucrats, and THAT is part of the problem. The viewers are the ultimate beneficiaries of whatever decisions are rendered by the FCC. We ARE talking about licenses owned by the public and for the benefit of the public. Of course, it would be irresponsible to govern or set forth policy based solely on public opinion, as many in the public may not be as informed as those with the education and training who make the decisions. But in this case, it seems as if certain decision makers are setting forth policy specifically based upon public opinion, or at least one corporate entity's opinion. 

Could you clarify what you said about it being fortunate that most viewers simply can't receive low-VHF due to noise or crappy antennas? I'm asking because it is anticipated that some higher UHF channels will be lost as a consequence of repacking, and in that scenario, I expect that the broadcasters and the OTA audience will find themselves more reliant on VHF-Lo. Under those circumstances, I would hope that many more viewers could receive and gain access to VHF-Lo signals.



Trip in VA said:


> Guess not. They'd rather go off the air than make a 15-second zero-cost change to their hardware.
> 
> - Trip


I think we all know why PMCM TV didn't do that and why they will not do that


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Greg2600 said:


> So the goal here was to get onto virtual 3, sandwiched between 2 and 4, or else? This is completely ridiculous on their part. Sounds like a scam.


WJLP, formerly KVNV, has aired on channel 3 from its inception in Ely, Nevada, when it was signed on by a prior licensee. At the time of the DTV transition, KVNV flash-cut from Analog RF 3 to Digital RF3/Virtual 3. It remained Digital RF3/Virtual 3 until it signed-off in Nevada prior to the station build-out in Freehold, NJ and Manhattan, NY. When the station signed-on in Freehold, NJ and Manhattan, NY, it did so on Digital RF3/Virtual 3. Those facts are irrefutable.

Unless valid proof can be presented to contradict these facts, one must reasonably conclude all of the following points:

A. WJLP f/k/a KVNV is not a newly licensed television station;
B. WJLP f/k/a KVNV has only broadcast on channel 3;
C. WJLP f/k/a KVNV has only identified as channel 3 to the general public;
D. WJLP f/k/a KVNV has at no time operated on or identified as channel 33 or any other channel number; and
E. To mandate or permit WJLP f/k/a KVNV to identify as any channel other than "3" risks creating viewer confusion, given the station's history.



Greg2600 said:


> Once more, I just explained how many viewers won't even pick up 3.10 because of the 10. 33.1 would have worked better.


YOU have expressed that you cannot pick up channel 3-10. On the contrary, the majority of viewers on this forum have had no problem receiving the signal, when it was on the air. In certain instances, some viewers with indoor antennas who originally could not receive the signal were offered helpful suggestions by other AVS Forum members here, including myself, and that advice coupled with their willingness to follow the suggestions resulted in success.



Greg2600 said:


> Seriously? The FCC is going to care about one low power station that much? There were multiple entities to complained about this station, which again, came from another state.


WJLP is not a low power TV station.

Incidentally, the multiple entities who are parties to this matter are armed with high-powered attorneys. Of course, I wouldn't suggest the FCC in any way is intimidated by that... 



Greg2600 said:


> FIOS probably would have left them on 3/503, gaining more viewers than anybody OTA. Dumb.


FiOS couldn't leave them on 3/503 because FiOS took the WJLP OTA signal. When the OTA signal was taken down at 12Midnight, FiOS' access to the signal was terminated.


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> There is a very stark difference between the intent of a law and the language of that same law. In a matter such as this, perhaps the intent was to obviate such conflicts, but if the language contradicts the intent, it is the actual wording that must prevail. Probable intent can be argued, usually litigated, but that usually follows when the original language is vague or subsequently contradicted by constructive facts. Based on the pleadings, I don't think that necessarily applies here.


The language is vague on this issue, because it never anticipated a station being allowed to move 3,000 miles across the country since the FCC has said repeatedly in the past that it is against the public interest for a station to leave a community and move 3,000 miles away.

http://atsc.org/cms/standards/a65/A65_2013.pdf

Here's the text. Let's study the relevant portion.

"The following provisions assign major_channel_number values 2 through 69 uniquely to licensees
licensed to broadcast digital ATSC signals and guarantee that the two-part channel number
combinations used by a licensee will be different from those used by any other licensee with an
overlapping DTV Service Area."

It clearly states that the rule is designed to assign different major_channel_numbers to stations with overlapping DTV service areas. Everything that follows, which is where the arguments are taking place, is designed to resolve that problem, bearing in mind that the assumption would rationally be that existing stations would not be allowed to move 3,000 miles. Yes, it says things like "stations currently operating on a virtual channel should continue using that channel," but that's assuming certain ground rules about how far stations are allowed to move. Rules don't operate in vacuums; they build upon rules that preceded them.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Viewers don't count in the minds of the the bureaucrats, and THAT is part of the problem.


Interesting. This quote seems to fly in the face of this quote.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> YOU have expressed that you cannot pick up channel 3-10.


His issue is clearly with a TV set that does not work as expected when WJLP has its PSIP set up as 3-10. See, if the FCC said that, we'd have endless complaining about the FCC being bought off or in favor of the corporations or wanting to force OTA viewers to cable or some other such thing. When you say it, however, it's apparently a perfectly rational response. I'm confused as to whether I should be outraged that you hate OTA viewers or whether I should be pleased with your rational response.



> Could you clarify what you said about it being fortunate that most viewers simply can't receive low-VHF due to noise or crappy antennas? I'm asking because it is anticipated that some higher UHF channels will be lost as a consequence of repacking, and in that scenario, I expect that the broadcasters and the OTA audience will find themselves more reliant on VHF-Lo. Under those circumstances, I would hope that many more viewers could receive and gain access to VHF-Lo signals.


Because there are plenty of TVs and receivers out there that do not handle conflicts well, and the only saving grace is that most antenna setups in the world are so awful (or low-VHF so difficult to receive) that the low-VHF signals are almost never received, so many of the viewers who would have WCBS knocked off by KJWP or WNBC knocked off by WACP don't receive the low-VHF signal that would cause them the problem. If they did, the handful of complaints I've heard would explode into hundreds at least.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> A. WJLP f/k/a KVNV is not a newly licensed television station;


Technically. It's newly licensed in the New York DMA, but not as a license in general.



> B. WJLP f/k/a KVNV has only broadcast on channel 3;


Correct.



> C. WJLP f/k/a KVNV has only identified as channel 3 to the general public;


To the general public in Ely, NV. I don't think anyone in Middletown Twp, NJ or anywhere else in the New York DMA for that matter, has ever watched KVNV on channel 3 before, which is the point of the rule.



> D. WJLP f/k/a KVNV has at no time operated on or identified as channel 33 or any other channel number; and


Also true, but it has never operated with ANY channel number in the New York City DMA.



> E. To mandate or permit WJLP f/k/a KVNV to identify as any channel other than "3" risks creating viewer confusion, given the station's history.


Creating viewer confusion how? The station literally never existed before in the minds of the 20 million residents of the New York DMA. How does assigning a station which is, for all intents and purposes, a new station to a channel that resolves conflicts for OTA viewers cause any confusion for anyone at all?



> WJLP is not a low power TV station.


My point exactly. 



> FiOS couldn't leave them on 3/503 because FiOS took the WJLP OTA signal. When the OTA signal was taken down at 12Midnight, FiOS' access to the signal was terminated.


Missing the point. Had they remapped to 33-1 and stayed on the air, FiOS could have easily continued broadcasting them on channel 3.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

*OFF but Not Out*

Their going off the air is temporary. Chill. I would like to know if there is any data on how many viewers they actually had. They may be losing money. 


I am one of those who can not get 3.1 or 3.10 as my VHF antenna is designed only for high VHF and I am not spending money to pick up this station. I also feel that it is wrong for a company to spend it's resources on broadcasting on the low VHF spectrum in light of what has happened the past 6 years unless they are trying to pull a fast one. If they are trying to screw around then I hope they stay off the air for good.


----------



## Greg2600

My reception issue aside, if WJLP's argument is that they've broadcast for years on channel 3 in a state thousands of miles away, they have no case. I can certainly agree with KYW and WFSB not wanting another station on their virtual, though less with WPXN complaining about being channel 3 on Cablevision (they're not on any other service). Again, I'm sorry but I don't think WJLP has a case here. The ownership tried to pull one over on everybody, and as the new kid on the block, they can't just barge in. FCC is also ruling on the future, to prevent more of these long distance station moves.


----------



## uhfyagi

LenL said:


> Their going off the air is temporary. Chill. I would like to know if there is any data on how many viewers they actually had. They may be losing money.
> 
> 
> I am one of those who can not get 3.1 or 3.10 as my VHF antenna is designed only for high VHF and I am not spending money to pick up this station. I also feel that it is wrong for a company to spend it's resources on broadcasting on the low VHF spectrum in light of what has happened the past 6 years unless they are trying to pull a fast one. If they are trying to screw around then I hope they stay off the air for good.


len Is it always whats better me and screw everyone else. Cos you are too cheap to buy another antenna


----------



## LenL

*Actually*

I currently have a VHF only, a UHF only and a Channel Master 4228 now up on the mast.


I have a home built Grey Hoverman sitting in my shed that was up at one point but I decided I did not need it and it needed some repair.


So it is not really a question of being too cheap. It makes NO sense for me or anyone to buy a big LOW VHF antenna and mount it just so I can receive one dorky station.


I can understand those out there who are receiving 3.1 and enjoying the programming not happy with it going off the air. For me it is a non issue.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> So it is not really a question of being too cheap. It makes NO sense for me or anyone to buy a big LOW VHF antenna and mount it just so I can receive one dorky station.


 I purchased a $30 big lo vhf antenna for this one dorky station, installed it in my attic, and combined it to my two outdoor antennas. It makes better sense than most of the people here who buy crappy channel master dvr's and the like who use it with their crappy tube tv's and constantly complain here that doesn't work correctly because they are too old to have an Internet connection. See the irony in your ridiculous statement?


----------



## reddice

I can't even get Ion for months now anyway. Are they still on RF channel 31?


----------



## PaulFrancis

Yep. They are still on and still showing "cop" programs primarily.


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> I purchased a $30 big lo vhf antenna for this one dorky station, installed it in my attic, and combined it to my two outdoor antennas. It makes better sense than most of the people here who buy crappy channel master dvr's and the like who use it with their crappy tube tv's and constantly complain here that doesn't work correctly because they are too old to have an Internet connection. See the irony in your ridiculous statement?



Antennas don't work in my attic. I tried them there and reception took a big hit.


As for you other comments attacking people buying CM DVRS, using them with tube TVs etc made NO sense to me. I am on a lot of AVS forums and most of what you said does not relate to most of the posters. Perhaps you are having a rough day and are really having a hissy fit because you lost 3.1.


----------



## PaulFrancis

http://www.rantlifestyle.com/2014/1...s-of-tv-viewers-by-forcing-me-tv-off-the-air/


----------



## veedon

The ATSC regulation or provision that was quoted earlier seems either vague or redundant. It speaks of assigning a unique major channel number to each station, but it later on speaks of making sure that the two-part (virtual) channel numbers are distinct.

Well, if the major channel number (the first part of the two-part virtual channel number) is unique, then all of the subchannels of that station will necessarily have two-part numbers that are distinct from the two-part channel numbers of every subchannel on every other station. So, there would be no need to refer to uniqueness of the two-part numbers if that is already guaranteed by the uniqueness of the major channel numbers.

The only sense that I can make of that provision is to interpret it as saying that major channel numbers should be unique within a DMA, but that two stations from neighboring DMA's might wind up with the same major channel number. In such cases, an effort would be made to assign the second parts of the virtual channel numbers in such a way as to avoid conflicts.

So it does sort of seem reasonable to me that you might have channels 5-1 through 5-3 from one station in a certain DMA and 5-4 from a station in a neighboring DMA, with the two stations perhaps having a small service area overlap. Could that cause confusion among OTA viewers in the overlap area? Maybe, but presumably viewers are smart enough to know which station is "more local" and which is "more distant", especially if the subchannels are all required to do regular station ID announcements that tell the city of license and call letters and perhaps even tell who owns the station.

Now, I do think that WJLP made a mistake in using -10 as the second part of its channel number. Wouldn't 3-9 have worked better with a lot of tuners?

As to the matter of what channel number a station has on a cable system, is the station entitled to have the channel number that is its (virtual) major channel number, or does the regulation say that the RF channel is what it can insist on under must-carry rules?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

LenL said:


> Their going off the air is temporary. Chill. I would like to know if there is any data on how many viewers they actually had. They may be losing money.


No worries, Len, everything is cool in my camp 

Press Communications, LLC is the owner of PMCM TV, LLC., and under the Press ownership, the company is the licensee of at least five Jersey Shore radio stations in both Monmouth and Ocean County, NJ.: WKMK Eatontown; WTHJ Bass River Twp.; WHTG Eatontown; WWZY Long Branch; and WBHX-FM Tuckerton.

Surely positive revenue is being generated from each of these radio stations, which probably helps the company tremendously at this time. Nonetheless, the legal bills being incurred are probably staggering.



LenL said:


> I am one of those who can not get 3.1 or 3.10 as my VHF antenna is designed only for high VHF and I am not spending money to pick up this station. I also feel that it is wrong for a company to spend it's resources on broadcasting on the low VHF spectrum in light of what has happened the past 6 years unless they are trying to pull a fast one. If they are trying to screw around then I hope they stay off the air for good.


I can appreciate your feelings regarding VHF-Lo, but each time you state them I feel you are somehow not accurately assessing the current state of television broadcasting.

The way I see it, broadcasters and the OTA audience are someday going to find themselves becoming reacclimated with the longer-wave frequencies that once reigned supreme in television's days of infancy. We do not yet know how the spectrum incentive auctions will affect each market, but in the event the auctions result in a significant loss of available TV channels, some broadcasters may face the ultimatum: take VHF-Lo or leave the air altogether. In that case, OTA viewers will likewise face an ultimatum of their own, specifically: Install VHF-Lo antennas or do not watch certain channels.

Before yesterday, the NYC market boasted three VHF-Lo television stations out of the available five: WKOB-LD New York; WJLP Middletown Twp., and WNYZ-LP New York, which only broadcasts an FM signal and transmits no video. The Philadelphia market likewise boasts three VHF-Lo television stations out of the available five: KJWP Wilmington, WACP Atlantic City, and WPVI-TV Philadelphia. In my view, that does not constitute an abandonment of the VHF-Lo band; To the contrary, it demonstrates a rediscovery.


----------



## nyctveng

PaulFrancis said:


> http://www.rantlifestyle.com/2014/1...s-of-tv-viewers-by-forcing-me-tv-off-the-air/


*article is filled with inaccuracies:*

*"Mere weeks after Me-TV finally broke into the NY/NJ market"*
it's been available in the market for years via WZME

*"they were encroaching on territory staked out by ION, a sister station of CBS"*
since when was ION a sister station of CBS?

*"CBS by pulling this low-class stunt to get rid of a smaller-scale station. CBS, along with Ion and Meredith, has a vested interest in Me-TV being off the air. Me-TV’s lineup of classic series from the past is irresistible."*
CBS, ION, and Meredith wouldn't care about this station if it wasn't trying to steal their long time slot on cable systems. ION has been on channel 3 on RCN systems since 1996 and on Cablevision systems since before 2000. Meredith's WFSB has been on channel 3 in Fairfield for decades. I attached a picture from a 1980's cable box with the channel lineup sticker that shows this. Hell yeah these stations will fight to keep their places!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

PMCM TV was not and is not "trying to pull a fast one" The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982, Section 331(a), the law that the Court interpreted to be in favor to PMCM's position, has been on the books since the early 1980s. The law, to the best of my knowledge, was never successfully appealed or struck down. That law survived several key communications initiatives including, but not limited to: The Cable Television Consumer Protection and Competition Act of 1992, the amendment of that same act in 1994, the Telecommunications Act of 1996, and even the ATSC standards, as amended.

Is the law outdated? From a practical standpoint held in view of today's media environment, yes. But it's perceived obsolescence does not render it unenforceable, as proven by the December 2012 ruling from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

Perhaps the responsibility for this entire incident ultimately rests with the FCC. Prior to the DTV transition in 2009, the FCC should have ensured that any final DTV Table of Allotments guaranteed a commercial VHF television station was assigned to every state, as per the law.

I cannot and will not purport to speak for PMCM TV, but based upon their pleadings and public statements, I interpret their actions as such: This is a modestly-sized New Jersey-based broadcasting company which discovered that a federal law which provides for enhancing television service in New Jersey and every other state was being ignored specifically in Delaware and New Jersey since June 2009. In order to correct this legal violation, the company purchased two television stations with the intent to relocate them to each state in order to ensure future compliance of the federal law and to enhance television service in each of those respective states. The FCC denied PMCM TV's petitions to do so. But then the FCC created two new allocations in those same states once the their attention was brought to the violations, and subsequently auctioned off those new allocations to Western Pacific Broadcast, LLC. The FCC apparently felt that two new stations whose programming consists almost entirely of infomercials would remedy the situation. PMCM TV disagreed, appealed, and ultimately won in court.

WJLP has been broadcasting on RF channel 3, and nothing indicates they wish to move off of that channel. RF 3 is not a frequency that is in any kind of demand by mobile broadband and cellular providers. As of today, the VHF-Lo band, generally speaking, is the least desired band upon which to hold a digital communications license. RF 3 is also far removed from the FM Radio band, so any expansion thoughts at this point are not even realistic fantasies. For all intents and purposes, the electromagnetic real estate upon which PMCM TV sits in both Middletown Twp. and Wilmington is among the least valued parcels in each of those communities respective markets. Furthermore, by programming these television stations with a network whose genre consists of older TV shows which typically attract an older-skewing audience, the potential value of ad revenue realized from either of these stations is likely poor in comparison to other genres of programming airing on the same stations, including infomercials.

It should be noted, for the sake of accuracy, that WJLP, while it was on the air, did program a three-hour long infomercial block each weekday morning. But that block aired during the 5AM - 8AM block in which viewership, particularly in the NYC market, is typically dominated by morning newscasts.

Now the station has been forced off the air by the FCC, unless they are willing to rebrand their identity and their virtual channel position. Doing so would almost certainly foreclose their right to demand cable/FiOS/satellite carriage on channel 3, despite the fact WJLP transmits on channel 3. It might also place PMCM TV into another battle with other deep-pocketed parties who presently occupy channel 33 on cable systems and might not take too kindly to being ejected from their long-standing channel positions. Those parties might even use the fact that WJLP transmits on channel 3 as reason to object to any attempts at displacement. To defend their position, PMCM TV is likely expending significant sums of money for attorney's fees, filing fees, and other expenses. Meanwhile, the TV station they are fighting for has been pulled off the air by the FCC, thus eclipsing any chance to fund the fight using revenues from the station, which, as I eluded to earlier, are likely less than stellar.

Given these facts, if PMCM TV was or is trying to "pull a fast one" or "screw around", I am at a loss to figure out what it was or is.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> Antennas don't work in my attic. I tried them there and reception took a big hit.
> 
> 
> As for you other comments attacking people buying CM DVRS, using them with tube TVs etc made NO sense to me. I am on a lot of AVS forums and most of what you said does not relate to most of the posters. Perhaps you are having a rough day and are really having a hissy fit because you lost 3.1.


Attacking? You sound childish. Yet you generalize and say that it doesn't make sense for ANYONE to get this "dorky station". Childish again. Apparently this conversation and the needs of the people from all the Avs forums you visit are way above your understanding. 

Hissy fit? More childish crap from you. I was merely pointing out your nonsense that no one should bother trying to receive a lo vhf station because of whatever crap you decide to make up. I haven't posted about them going off, I have other things in my life to worry about. It comes back when it comes back. Yet you had to come here and proclaim that your better off than everyone because you didn't bother with the "dorky station".


----------



## turtleworld

*from the asbury park press (wjlp story)*

FREEHOLD TOWNSHIP – WJLP, the Jersey Shore's first privately funded broadcast television station that went live on Oct. 1, will stop broadcasting temporarily after the Federal Communications Commission ordered it to abandon Channel 3 or leave the air.

The township-based station had secured carriage on Channel 3 for viewers with an over-the-air antenna and FiOS TV. It aimed to land on Channel 3 for viewers with Blue Ridge, Cablevision, Charter, Comcast, Dish, DirecTV, Service Electric, Sky or Time Warner by early 2015.

WJLP hit a roadblock, however, after WFSB, a Rocky Hill, Connecticut-based news station that also airs on Channel 3 as an affiliate of CBS, filed a complaint with the FCC. WFSB asked that WJLP move to another channel because of concerns that the two stations, both in the New York market, would overlap on the air.

WJLP goes live from Freehold

"Our competitors are worth billions and are working the FCC to substantially weaken a small family owned company or, as in this case, shut us out all together," said Lee Leddy, WJLP's manager, in a news release. "The FCC has been no help, siding with the big guys from the very beginning, even to the point of deliberately misinterpreting the governing rules and laws to support their position."

Court appeal

WJLP appealed to the D.C. Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals on Monday afternoon. The station asked the court to allow it to resume broadcasting temporarily until the realization of a final solution regarding the Channel 3 dispute. It hopes that the court reviews the appeal and makes a decision on Wednesday. WJLP also filed two petitions with the FCC. Should the station fail to prevail in both cases, its fate remains unclear.

"We haven't thought it through that far," said Robert McAllan, a managing partner of PMCM TV LLC, which owns WJLP, and chief executive officer of Press Communications LLC, the Wall-based company that owns PMCM TV. "We are absolutely, positively convinced that we are in the right, that we are going to win either at the commission or in court. If both of those (entities) disagree with us, then obviously we're going to have make a decision about what we're going to do."

Press Communications also owns several radio stations, including Thunder 106.3 and 106.5, 107.1 FM and B98.5. The company once served as the broadcasting arm of the Asbury Park Press, but the pair split after Gannett Co. Inc. bought the newspaper in 1997. PMCM TV, an affiliate of MeTV, the Chicago-based network that airs classic television shows, also owns KJWP, a broadcast television station based in Wilmington, Delaware, where it airs on Channel 2 in the Philadelphia market.

PMCM TV Chairman Jules L. Plangere, Jr., is assited by Kevin Seguin (right), the station's traffic coordinator, in activating the signal Wednesday evening, October, 1, 2014, for WJLP to be broadcast on VHF Channel 3. The station broadcasts ME.tv content and is based in Freehold Township, NJ.PMCM TV Chairman Jules L. Plangere, Jr., is assited by Kevin Seguin (right), the station's traffic coordinator, in activating the signal Wednesday evening, October, 1, 2014, for WJLP to be broadcast on VHF Channel 3. The station broadcasts ME.tv content and is based in Freehold Township, NJ. (Photo: THOMAS P. COSTELLO / Gannett)
Buy Photo Fullscreen
PMCM TV Chairman Jules L. Plangere, Jr., is assited by Kevin Seguin (right), the station's traffic coordinator, in activating the signal Wednesday evening, October, 1, 2014, for WJLP to be broadcast on VHF Channel 3. The station broadcasts ME.tv content and is based in Freehold Township, NJ.	PMCM TV Chairman Jules L. Plangere, Jr., smiles after activating the signal Wednesday evening, October, 1, 2014, for WJLP to be broadcast on VHF Channel 3. The station broadcasts ME.tv content and is based in Freehold Township, NJ.	PMCM TV is now on the air Wednesday evening, October, 1, 2014, on VHF Channel 3. The station broadcasts ME.tv content and is based in Freehold Township, NJ.	PMCM TV Chairman Jules L. Plangere, Jr., is interviewed after activating the signal Wednesday evening, October, 1, 2014, for WJLP to be broadcast on VHF Channel 3. The station boradcasts ME.tv content and is based in Freehold Township, NJ.	PMCM TV CEO Robert McAllan is interviewed after the signal was activated Wednesday evening, October, 1, 2014, for WJLP to be broadcast on VHF Channel 3. The station broadcasts ME.tv content and is based in Freehold Township, NJ.	A portion of the Me.tv schedule that will be boardcast on PMCM TV's VHF Channel 3. The station is based in Freehold Township, NJ.
Next Slide
PMCM TV employs roughly 35 people at its studios off Route 33 in Freehold Township, a location that the company chose because it sits between the New York and Philadelphia markets. Should WJLP never return to the air, McAllan emphasized that none of PMCM TV's employees would lose their jobs as they must still broadcast KJWP.

"It's just as it was before we put the station on," McAllan said. "We're not laying off any staff. We're not making any changes. Everything is as it was. To turn it back on is literally a flip of the switch. It's not like we have to go through a long process in order to bring the thing back up again. We could have it back up and running within, probably, a day or so."

Meredith Corp., the Des Moines, Iowa-based media company that owns WFSB, declined to comment.

The FCC did not return a request for comment.

Partnership with Asbury Park Press

WJLP had been airing classic television shows, such as "Batman," "Get Smart" and "Leave It to Beaver." It also planned to introduce several news and public affairs programs later this month. The station was supposed to have partnered with the Asbury Park Press and the rest of Gannett's newspapers in New Jersey, in which an anchor for the station would air the newspapers' content during various one-minute news breaks each day from the Asbury Park Press' office in Neptune.

The station was also supposed to go live later this month with "Jersey Matters" and "And Another Thing With Larry Mendte," a pair of public affairs programs that would each be produced at Monmouth University in West Long Branch, and then air on Saturday and Sunday mornings. "Jersey Matters" would have focused specifically on New Jersey while "And Another Thing With Larry Mendte" would talk about happenings elsewhere. Larry Mendte has won more than 90 Emmy awards as a newscaster in the New York and Philadelphia markets.

PMCM TV bought the license for WJLP in November 2008 from KVNV Channel 3 in Ely, Nevada, and moved the station to New Jersey within the New York market, which reaches as far south as Mercer and Ocean counties. It also bought the license for KJWP in June 2009 from KJWY Channel 2 in Jackson, Wyoming, and moved it to Wilmington, Delaware, within the Philadelphia market. KJWP went live in November 2013.


----------



## veedon

Clearly what is needed is more flexibility in the PSIP system. If each OTA viewer had a little OTA set-top box that was connected to the internet, then when a signal from WFSB arrived via RF 33 and a signal from KYW arrived on RF26, the device could access the internet to look up the PSIP tables for the Hartford and Philadelphia markets, recognize that both stations have virtual channel number 3, determine which station's transmitter is closer to the viewer's set, determine the political and financial clout the companies that own the stations, and make a decision regarding which station is worthier of being Channel 3 on that viewer's set. The other station would be demoted to Channel 99 or something like that.

And, of course, the little device could be used to report the viewer's viewing habits directly to Nielsen and the FCC.


----------



## nyctveng

PaulFrancis said:


> The loophole was there to be taken advantage of. The FCC is pretending not to understand its own laws as a favor to the big boys (CBS, ION) and the insignificant station in that media mecca, Hartford, CT.)


WFSB may be insignificant in the NYC area but that's not the case in Hartford and surrounding areas. They provide over 30 hours of local news per week and have NFL.


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> If each OTA viewer had a little OTA set-top box that was connected to the internet, then when a signal from WFSB arrived via RF 33 and a signal from KYW arrived on RF26, the device could access the internet to look up the PSIP tables for the Hartford and Philadelphia markets,


NO! 

You're complicating an issue that is very isolated and will be resolved by the FCC


----------



## veedon

nyctveng said:


> NO!
> 
> You're complicating an issue that is very isolated and will be resolved by the FCC


You must have missed the smiley face.
That suggestion was purely in jest.

The main point is that the FCC should try to make OTA television as simple as possible, and if any confusion is going to be created, let the confusion be created for cable TV viewers, who should be used to goofy channel numbers by now.


----------



## veedon

Greg2600 said:


> My reception issue aside, if WJLP's argument is that they've broadcast for years on channel 3 in a state thousands of miles away, they have no case. I can certainly agree with KYW and WFSB not wanting another station on their virtual, though less with WPXN complaining about being channel 3 on Cablevision (they're not on any other service). Again, I'm sorry but I don't think WJLP has a case here. The ownership tried to pull one over on everybody, and as the new kid on the block, they can't just barge in. FCC is also ruling on the future, to prevent more of these long distance station moves.



Well, a federal court did in fact rule that the FCC had to allow the transfer of the license and RF3 channel allocation from Nevada to New Jersey. So, from a legal standpoint, the crucial question might be whether that ruling also implied a right to have the Channel 3 position on the major cable systems and whether that would also require the assignment of channel 3 as the virtual channel number.

From a business standpoint, I am sure that the channel position on the cable systems is a big deal. Me-TV's contract with the station might even have some provisions requiring the station to secure a good position on cable systems. I don't know enough about affiliation deals to know that.


----------



## uhfyagi

Im boycotting cbs ion which is sell out including nfl. I back metv 100 percent


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## turtleworld

fog in central jersey is intense, lost a lot of NYC channels but got wrnn and some connecticut affiliates. Hell of a tropo going on.


----------



## Greg2600

uhfyagi said:


> Im boycotting cbs ion which is sell out including nfl. I back metv 100 percent


You won't have much company in doing that. MeTV is not a zit on the NFL/CBS's face.



PaulFrancis said:


> http://www.rantlifestyle.com/2014/1...s-of-tv-viewers-by-forcing-me-tv-off-the-air/


Is this an independent writer? The Asbury Park Press is not, they do business with PCMMTV's parent. Has any reputable, independent news source written about this yet?


----------



## andgarden

Trip in VA said:


> http://atsc.org/cms/standards/a65/A65_2013.pdf
> 
> Here's the text. Let's study the relevant portion.
> 
> "The following provisions assign major_channel_number values 2 through 69 uniquely to licensees
> licensed to broadcast digital ATSC signals and guarantee that the two-part channel number
> combinations used by a licensee will be different from those used by any other licensee with an
> overlapping DTV Service Area."


If this is the language being interpreted, then I do not think there is any ambiguity at all. WJLP is not entitled to 3-[anything].


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> Attacking? You sound childish. Yet you generalize and say that it doesn't make sense for ANYONE to get this "dorky station". Childish again. Apparently this conversation and the needs of the people from all the Avs forums you visit are way above your understanding.
> 
> Hissy fit? More childish crap from you. I was merely pointing out your nonsense that no one should bother trying to receive a lo vhf station because of whatever crap you decide to make up. I haven't posted about them going off, I have other things in my life to worry about. It comes back when it comes back. Yet you had to come here and proclaim that your better off than everyone because you didn't bother with the "dorky station".



Let me spell it our for you:


1. People will receive LOW VHF or not based on their antenna currently installed. We all know that...it is understood.
2. I would NOT recommend anyone go out and buy a large low UHF antenna just to pull in 3.1 which is one of over 40 to 50 or more stations we get in the NY metro area. Most people are very happy with all the OTA programming they currently are getting and would see no need to add another antenna. It is a nicety not a necessity. 
3. Perhaps I offended you by calling it a dorky station which you took that to reflect on you? A lover of 3.1 programming. It was not intended.


----------



## LenL

If there is any further movement to grab OTA spectrum, please, please let them take LOW VHF! They can even take HIGH VHF as far as I'm concerned!


----------



## LenL

uhfyagi said:


> Im boycotting cbs ion which is sell out including nfl. I back metv 100 percent



They will definitely fold now that you are boycotting them. There should be a press release any moment about how their viewership has been impacted by their position on METV and that they are going stop their legal actions.


----------



## PaulFrancis

nyctveng said:


> PaulFrancis said:
> 
> 
> 
> The loophole was there to be taken advantage of. The FCC is pretending not to understand its own laws as a favor to the big boys (CBS, ION) and the insignificant station in that media mecca, Hartford, CT.)
> 
> 
> 
> WFSB may be insignificant in the NYC area but that's not the case in Hartford and surrounding areas. They provide over 30 hours of local news per week and have NFL.
Click to expand...

You are correct. In the disappointment of losing a favorite channel, I was dismissive of WFSB; however, I still don't see how a station in Northern Ct can have so much sway over a local channel that transmits primarily in NYC and northern NJ.


----------



## PaulFrancis

Greg2600 said:


> uhfyagi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im boycotting cbs ion which is sell out including nfl. I back metv 100 percent
> 
> 
> 
> You won't have much company in doing that. MeTV is not a zit on the NFL/CBS's face.
> 
> 
> 
> PaulFrancis said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.rantlifestyle.com/2014/1...s-of-tv-viewers-by-forcing-me-tv-off-the-air/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this an independent writer? The Asbury Park Press is not, they do business with PCMMTV's parent. Has any reputable, independent news source written about this yet?
Click to expand...

Its from a website called Rant Lifestyle. Its someone's opinion, which I happen to share. Of course, it is your opinion (and the rest of the forum posters) whether you agree or not.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> Let me spell it our for you:
> 
> 
> 1. People will receive LOW VHF or not based on their antenna currently installed. We all know that...it is understood.
> 2. I would NOT recommend anyone go out and buy a large low UHF antenna just to pull in 3.1 which is one of over 40 to 50 or more stations we get in the NY metro area. Most people are very happy with all the OTA programming they currently are getting and would see no need to add another antenna. It is a nicety not a necessity.
> 3. Perhaps I offended you by calling it a dorky station which you took that to reflect on you? A lover of 3.1 programming. It was not intended.


You apparently don't know how to spell.

1. it has nothing to do with the conversation or my reply to you. no one even talked about antennas as to the reason it went off the air and in your world, they cant simply buy a new antenna and install it. you're grasping at straws.

2. no one here asked for your opinion if they should install a lo vhf antenna or if they should bother in trying to get Metv, its not even part of the conversation. you're grasping at straws because you were called out. So if a person comes here asking for help in watching Chips on the only channel that it broadcasts on in the entire NYC market and that would make them happy you would recommend them not doing it if they have the means because you assert that it doesnt make sense for anyone? who are you to tell that person its not a necessity? again, crap.

3. again, it didn't bother me that it went off the air unlike @uhfyagi. he called you a "nice" name before he deleted it because he obviously thought your assertions are pompous as well. and if you havent noticed, that are numerous people here who are not happy about the shutdown. 

So the moral of your story is if someone who wants to get into OTA shouldn't bother with a popular station if they want it because its dorky. god help the people who ask for help in this thread if you are the first one to respond.

you might not realize it, but there are people who have space in their attics, who are not afraid of heights and have no problem in buying new equipment in order to get a "dorky" station. Providing crappy help and offering demoralizing opinions is detrimental to a help forum


----------



## uhfyagi

LenL said:


> If there is any further movement to grab OTA spectrum, please, please let them take LOW VHF! They can even take HIGH VHF as far as I'm concerned!


there you go again, if i cant get it screw everyone else mentality, i would hate to be life or death situation you likely to push someone of a cliff. Lol


----------



## veedon

I don't quite understand the tendency to disparage stations that accept the risk of broadcasting on VHF-Lo frequencies that are clearly less desirable than UHF frequencies in large urban areas.

Are people suggesting that those stations should be treated as pariahs or that the FCC should deliberately try to discontinue those allocations or pursue policies that make those stations have a hard time getting a good channel position on a cable system?

One could argue that out of a respect for television history, a station such as WCBS, whose channel 2 allocation was first granted way back in 1941, should be allowed (as it is allowed) to keep Channel 2 for marketing purposes, even though it is not willing to accept the disadvantages of broadcasting on RF2.

But why such denigration of stations that are willing to make use of VHF-Lo? It seems to me that unless a decision is taken to eliminate VHF-Lo from broadcast TV use, it is appropriate to take reasonable steps (in terms of governmental policies and regulations) to mitigate the competitive disadvantage of operating on those less desirable frequencies.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Um.... excuse me, I don't mean to break up the flaming brawl between Len L., Aero 1, and uhfyagi, but I thought you and others here might be interested to know the latest about the TV station that has been the hot topic here over the past 48 hours....

WJLP Middletown Township, RF 3/Virtual 3-10, is back on the air as of this afternoon. It will remain so until at least December 1, 2014. PMCM TV, via their Facebook page, is thanking viewers for voicing their opinions to the FCC, and they encourage viewers to continue submitting their comments.

In all fairness to the situation, PMCM TV was seeking a stay of the FCC's recent action to suspend the STA which has authorized WJLP to broadcast during this time, and I do not know whether that matter has been disposed, and if it was, whether the decision was favorable to the station.


----------



## Aero 1

I had posted that about 3:30, I guess it didn't take. It came back on air at about that time. I was looking for an fcc confirmation but couldn't find it.


----------



## Trip in VA

So I finally found the letter. The one that was issued after WJLP ignored the FCC's initial order to map to 33-1.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=54220

It orders WJLP off the air if and only if it does not map to 33-1. So is the station running as 33-1 now as ordered? (Bear in mind some tuners will let old PSIP "stick" until rescanned.)

- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> So I finally found the letter. The one that was issued after WJLP ignored the FCC's initial order to map to 33-1.
> 
> http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=54220
> 
> It orders WJLP off the air if and only if it does not map to 33-1. So is the station running as 33-1 now as ordered? (Bear in mind some tuners will let old PSIP "stick" until rescanned.)
> 
> - Trip


still on 3-10. i did a rescan and it still shows 3.10.


----------



## turtleworld

Trip in VA said:


> So I finally found the letter. The one that was issued after WJLP ignored the FCC's initial order to map to 33-1.
> 
> 
> It orders WJLP off the air if and only if it does not map to 33-1. So is the station running as 33-1 now as ordered? (Bear in mind some tuners will let old PSIP "stick" until rescanned.)
> 
> - Trip


It's up on 3.10. You DC boys going to head up to Jersey with a swat team and battering ram?


----------



## Vengabus (Richard)

When WJLP left Ely, Nevada, didn't they leave that population without locally originating TV service? The press releases and news stories from the co-owned media aren't mentioning that. I'm a fan of impartial news, so I'm having trouble with the stories selling this Nevada move-in as the "victim". Would a well-researched, neutral report mention the people in Nevada without local video content because of the Nevada-to-NYC 3? It would put the editorialized label of "bullying" by CBS and Meredith into perspective.

Wasn't WBQM-LD on virtual 3 in NYC (without the significant overlap) before the Nevada 3? Did the Nevada station push WBQM-LD off of 3? I think LPTV is only secondary as far as interference-- not PSIP.


----------



## veedon

Vengabus (Richard) said:


> When WJLP left Ely, Nevada, didn't they leave that population without locally originating TV service? The press releases and news stories from the co-owned media aren't mentioning that. I'm a fan of impartial news, so I'm having trouble with the stories selling this Nevada move-in as the "victim". Would a well-researched, neutral report mention the people in Nevada without local video content because of the Nevada-to-NYC 3? It would put the editorialized label of "bullying" by CBS and Meredith into perspective.
> 
> Wasn't WBQM-LD on virtual 3 in NYC (without the significant overlap) before the Nevada 3? Did the Nevada station push WBQM-LD off of 3? I think LPTV is only secondary as far as interference-- not PSIP.


I would not mourn too much for the good people of Ely, NV.
It looks as though they are still able to receive quite a bit of OTA programming via translators carrying signals from stations in larger cities in Nevada and Utah.

In fact, Ely might have more OTA viewing options than some small towns in the state of New York.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=72240


----------



## LenL

*Aero*

If you don't like my opinions YOU can clearly see one of my posts identified as being from me and simply DON'T read it. This is a public forum and last I checked there is freedom of speech and opinion.


Secondly, others may or may not like what I have to say but they should at least get another point of view on this forum and NOT just yours!


Finally having no need for buying another antenna to watch 3.1 programming is probably something that inflames some people on this forum but is probably a reality for 99.99% of OTA viewers who like me CAN'T receive 3.1. If the people who own METV and work for them read this forum they should have done their homework and realized that they have a problem and it isn't just me, the FCC, CBS etc..


----------



## Vengabus (Richard)

veedon said:


> In fact, Ely might have more OTA viewing options than some small towns in the state of New York.


Just to clarify, that list represents 12 sources throughout Central Nevada at different locations (not necessarily at Ely, but I can't argue that because I don't have time right now to check).

Also, none are local, which is the most important point here by far.


----------



## Greg2600

LenL said:


> Finally having no need for buying another antenna to watch 3.1 programming is probably something that inflames some people on this forum but is probably a reality for 99.99% of OTA viewers who like me CAN'T receive 3.1. If the people who own METV and work for them read this forum they should have done their homework and realized that they have a problem and it isn't just me, the FCC, CBS etc..


Isn't WJLP paying MeTV for the content, that's probably goal #1 for them? Also, not much choice for MeTV. Though it's tough to receive, look at GetTV, Escape or Grit. They're buried on sub channels on networks most people do not even look at. Heck, some are on subs for Spanish-language OTA networks. Then take RetroTV, the originator of all this, which is only carried here by a low power stations nobody receives.


----------



## LenL

*Good POints*

But if you are using a program guide like I do and many others, and recording shows or seeing what is on I really don't care which channel or sub channel it's on. As long as I can receive it.


I don't really speak much Spanish and zero Chinese but I still watch some of the programming. The Spanish channels have some of the best movies that are on broadcast TV and a lot of the movie dialog sucks in English anyway.


----------



## PaulFrancis

LenL said:


> But if you are using a program guide like I do and many others, and recording shows or seeing what is on I really don't care which channel or sub channel it's on. As long as I can receive it.
> 
> 
> I don't really speak much Spanish and zero Chinese but I still watch some of the programming. The Spanish channels have some of the best movies that are on broadcast TV and a lot of the movie dialog sucks in English anyway.


Its too bad those Spanish channels aren't required to offer English subtitles. I'd like to know what they're talking about.


----------



## veedon

LenL said:


> But if you are using a program guide like I do and many others, and recording shows or seeing what is on I really don't care which channel or sub channel it's on. As long as I can receive it.
> ...


But the thing that makes this little kerfuffle concerning what virtual channel number ("major channel number") WJLP should have so amusing or ridiculous (depending on your point of view) is that OTA viewership is not really what WJLP, WFSB, and KYW care about.

Having an OTA presence is just a way for WJLP to be able to invoke must-carry status for its primary channel, carrying Me-TV programming. That's what will force DirecTV and the major cable systems to carry the station.

I would bet that in NYC there are a lot of people who simply cannot get any kind of OTA reception because they live in apartment buildings that are constructed in a way that is not friendly to OTA signals, regardless of whether those signals are VHF-Lo, VHF-High, or UHF.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> ...
> 
> The way I see it, broadcasters and the OTA audience are someday going to find themselves becoming reacclimated with the longer-wave frequencies that once reigned supreme in television's days of infancy. We do not yet know how the spectrum incentive auctions will affect each market, but in the event the auctions result in a significant loss of available TV channels, some broadcasters may face the ultimatum: take VHF-Lo or leave the air altogether. In that case, OTA viewers will likewise face an ultimatum of their own, specifically: Install VHF-Lo antennas or do not watch certain channels.
> 
> ....


I'd like to see OTA viewership have a resurgence, and I'd love to see some physicists and engineers come up with some miracle that will make VHF-Lo easy to receive without a humongous outdoor antenna, but I doubt that either of those things will happen.

Perhaps the future of OTA isn't OTA at all, but some sort of internet presence that is supported by a combination of advertising revenue and governmental subsidy (taxation).


----------



## unsmiley

veedon said:


> I would bet that in NYC there are a lot of people who simply cannot get any kind of OTA reception because they live in apartment buildings that are constructed in a way that is not friendly to OTA signals, regardless of whether those signals are VHF-Lo, VHF-High, or UHF.


You would be wrong. I live in a Manhattan apartment building and am thrilled at the number of OTA stations I receive with my 99 cent rabbit ears, including WJLP.


----------



## LenL

veedon said:


> But the thing that makes this little kerfuffle concerning what virtual channel number ("major channel number") WJLP should have so amusing or ridiculous (depending on your point of view) is that OTA viewership is not really what WJLP, WFSB, and KYW care about.
> 
> Having an OTA presence is just a way for WJLP to be able to invoke must-carry status for its primary channel, carrying Me-TV programming. That's what will force DirecTV and the major cable systems to carry the station.
> 
> I would bet that in NYC there are a lot of people who simply cannot get any kind of OTA reception because they live in apartment buildings that are constructed in a way that is not friendly to OTA signals, regardless of whether those signals are VHF-Lo, VHF-High, or UHF.



Good points and it would not surprise me as after all it is a business and customers don't come first anymore.....


----------



## AvidHiker

unsmiley said:


> You would be wrong. I live in a Manhattan apartment building and am thrilled at the number of OTA stations I receive with my 99 cent rabbit ears, including WJLP.



That's nice you have good reception, but that doesn't make veedon's statement "wrong". All one has to do is search this thread to see there are plenty of folks with serious reception challenges in NYC (including Manhattan).


----------



## Markxxx

Vengabus (Richard) said:


> Just to clarify, that list represents 12 sources throughout Central Nevada at different locations (not necessarily at Ely, but I can't argue that because I don't have time right now to check).
> 
> Also, none are local, which is the most important point here by far.


Local refers to market DMA not to city of license for TV purposes.


----------



## icemannyr

PaulFrancis said:


> Its too bad those Spanish channels aren't required to offer English subtitles. I'd like to know what they're talking about.


Univison and Telemundo offer English captions for some of their programming on CC3.


----------



## LenL

*Thanks Icemannyr*

I'll have to check out closed captioning more often. I sometimes turn it on to see the Spanish as I can understand the written words better than to hear it spoken. Now that I know CC3 sometimes has English I'll have to check it out.


----------



## PaulFrancis

icemannyr said:


> PaulFrancis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its too bad those Spanish channels aren't required to offer English subtitles. I'd like to know what they're talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> Univison and Telemundo offer English captions for some of their programming on CC3.
Click to expand...

Tried CC3. Still came up with Spanish subtitles. I'm curious...do they offer English subtitles only for big events? (Like the World Cup?)


----------



## JoeSchmoe007

*Audio out of sync with video?*

Has anyone noticed that audio has been ahead of video lately on all OTA channels, maybe 0.5-1 sec? That is audio finished but actor's lips are still moving. Right now I am observing this on Seinfeld on WPIX but it is present on all channels.

I first thought something got messed up in my receiver audio delay settings (the way I had it was coax from antenna to TV, then optical audio out of TV to my receiver) but then I just used TV speakers instead and the problem remains. Currently signal is routed from my antenna to TV directly via coax cable, TV speakers are used and the problem is here.

PS LiveWell (7.2) looks and sounds like over one second right now.


----------



## nyctveng

JoeSchmoe007 said:


> Has anyone noticed that audio has been ahead of video lately on all OTA channels, maybe 0.5-1 sec? That is audio finished but actor's lips are still moving. Right now I am observing this on Seinfeld on WPIX but it is present on all channels.


Do you really think all the networks in NYC all of the sudden have lip sync issues at the same time? It's your equipment dude, try a different tv if you have one.


----------



## uhfyagi

nyctveng said:


> Do you really think all the networks in NYC all of the sudden have lip sync issues at the same time? It's your equipment dude, try a different tv if you have one.


METV is running with slight hiccup anyone else notice this bug.


----------



## Greg2600

uhfyagi said:


> METV is running with slight hiccup anyone else notice this bug.


I have noticed it on FIOS. Compared it immediately to WZME-19, and there was no hiccup.


----------



## uhfyagi

is clear as day on wjpl ch3, you get wzme feed only?


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> METV is running with slight hiccup anyone else notice this bug.


Otis Campbell is often that way.


----------



## uhfyagi

barney pfifer


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> barney pfifer


Good thing Andy made Barney Fife a deputy sheriff. Much safer for the residents of Mayberry that way. If Barney had to find other work, who knows what might have happened? He would have been a real danger to the community if he had become an antenna installer.


----------



## Greg2600

uhfyagi said:


> is clear as day on wjpl ch3, you get wzme feed only?


?? On Fios I get both channels. WJLP on FIOS had audio issues the other day, while WZME on FIOS did not, though airing the same exact TV show.


----------



## uhfyagi

I C i would think that wjlp pq is better than zme on fios. Is it true fios tv pq is as good as dtv, i would choose twc maxx over fios internet cos lot cheaper.


----------



## ALP

HELP! As some of you know I live about 33 miles due north of NYC and have a large fixed antenna aimed due south right at the ESB. I basically watch just main broadcast TV and get great reception on Channels 2,4,5,7,11 and 13. I pay no attention to anything else out there. Believe it or not, my problem is the snow in Buffalo, NY.  Because of the monster snow fall there the NFL has moved the Jets vs Buffalo game to Detroit at 7PM Monday night. This means that some of my favorite programs on Monday will be bumped from Channel 2.1 on Monday night. Instead of putting them on Channel 2.2 (which as near as I can tell just shows weather all day long) WCBS says the programs will be shown on their "sister" channel that they call 1055. What is Channel 1055?  Is it broadcast or cable or what? If it is broadcast what is its channel number? Where is it broadcast from? I cannot rotate my antenna because I would lose other programs that I watch or record on Monday night. Is there anyway I can manage to watch or record the usual programs on WCBS this Monday night?


----------



## Trip in VA

WLNY is 55-1 (RF47) in Riverhead out on Long Island. From anywhere except Long Island and Connecticut, WLNY is a long shot and very hard to catch.

- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

Your best bet is to watch the episodes on cbs.com the next day, if not, buy them on iTunes, Amazon, vudu etc. Or download them illegally.


----------



## veedon

So WLNY (virtual 55) is owned by CBS but carries CBS programming only on a secondary basis, having most of its programming just be syndicated shows? And its signal covers only Long Island and a small portion of Connecticut, the same portion of Connecticut that is at the heart of the dispute between WJLP and WFSB over whether WJLP can use Channel 3 as its virtual channel number?

Meanwhile, it's not clear for how long WZME will continue to serve the NYC market as a Me-TV affiliate.

Man, having so many markets (Connecticut, NYC, Jersey, Philadelphia) packed so close together makes for a lot of complications in assigning RF allocations and virtual channel numbers and deciding what slots the stations get on cable systems.


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> Meanwhile, it's not clear for how long WZME will continue to serve the NYC market as a Me-TV affiliate.


Until WJLP gains broad coverage (Satellite, TWC, CV, Comcast). Right now only FiOS is carrying it.


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> WLNY is 55-1 (RF47) in Riverhead out on Long Island. From anywhere except Long Island and Connecticut, WLNY is a long shot and very hard to catch.
> 
> - Trip


not so trip, Richmond hill south part of queens wlny is routinely watched ota. parts of bklyn too.


----------



## ALP

Any ideas as to why WCBS does not use 2.2 to carry alternate programming as other channels do?


----------



## Aero 1

ALP said:


> Any ideas as to why WCBS does not use 2.2 to carry alternate programming as other channels do?


Because cable and satellite systems do not carry CBS+ 2.2.


----------



## uhfyagi

no carriage by cable means no mula no advertisement revenue..


----------



## dvdchance

Is Ch 3.10 still on the air? I haven't been able to pick up even a hint of the station the past 2 days. Weird since it was usually very reliable for me.


----------



## uhfyagi

dvdchance said:


> Is Ch 3.10 still on the air? I haven't been able to pick up even a hint of the station the past 2 days. Weird since it was usually very reliable for me.


yes is on the air I been experiencing lots of pixelation. METV signal wise is usually pegged using a insignia stb. windy conditions and heavy rain last night had something to do with it.


----------



## speedlaw

*VHF Lo ?*

I too have had this. Interestingly, the higher frequency stations are either clear or pixelated. I have an ideal reception situation for VHF 3, I have a roof antenna with VHF lo elements, aimed at NYC with a line of sight. I'm 40 or so miles up river, but the accident of geology means I have a direct view.

I get 3 with an 88% on the diagnostic screen, and it is never a problem to tune...yet, I get about twice an hour pixellation. I'm guessing there may be an airplane involved, as the space between them and me is also busy airspace.

Otherwise, between vintage Batman and 5-0, the DVR is busy ! I applaud the business model, and hope they get their channel 3 listing. Hey, none of any of this makes sense....


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> no carriage by cable means no mula no advertisement revenue..


 Indeed, the moolah is a thing of which any self-respecting revenue seeking businessman is more than somewhat fond. And let it not be said that such a man should abandon VHF, even if he does have to nominally locate himself in Jersey upon completing so arduous an eastward expedition.


----------



## roseha

uhfyagi said:


> yes is on the air I been experiencing lots of pixelation. METV signal wise is usually pegged using a insignia stb. windy conditions and heavy rain last night had something to do with it.


I was having some breaking up on the station last night, but to my surprise today not only is it coming in well on my Tivo, but my Samsung TV, which is on the same antenna with a splitter, is now receiving WJLP perfectly after not getting it in at all when I set things up. I wonder if they have done something to improve the quality of their signal?


----------



## uhfyagi

roseha said:


> I was having some breaking up on the station last night, but to my surprise today not only is it coming in well on my Tivo, but my Samsung TV, which is on the same antenna with a splitter, is now receiving WJLP perfectly after not getting it in at all when I set things up. I wonder if they have done something to improve the quality of their signal?


TV signals were enhanced by noreaster I was receiving my hard to get channels last night. wedw,wliw, what do you think is going to happen with METV ultimatum?


----------



## ALP

BION, I had to "de-ice" my antenna around 5 PM last night. Here in Pleasantville we were right on the transition line most of the day. I would rain, then snow, then freezing rain, then sleet and so on all day long. It changed every 15 minutes. Around 5 PM I lost Channel 2 on 5 almost completely and Channel 4 and 7 would break up every now an then. 

I live in a house with flat roofs, a lower and an upper. I can access the lower roof through the window in my study where I set right now and can reach the upper roof by means of a permanent ladder between the two levels. I looked out of the window in the study and saw that the antenna ( a big Winegard on a mast that is about eight feet above the upper roof) was covered by an icy slushy mixture about 1/4" to 1/2" thick. I got the extension pole brush that my wife uses to dust the upper portions of the eleven foot ceiling and walls in the main room of the house and went out to the upper roof and got most of the ice and slush off of the antenna. Reception was completely restored to its usual wonderful state. 

It was a real good feeling to get the reception back by doing such a crazy thing. Many of my neighbors already think I am crazy by going OTA. I doubt if any of them saw my "di-icing" move last evening, but if they did I am sure they are now totally convinced that I have lost my mind.

Later today or tomorrow I will try to get my wife to take a picture of a reenactment of my antenna "de-icing" and post it.


----------



## mrsat94

uhfyagi said:


> TV signals were enhanced by noreaster I was receiving my hard to get channels last night. wedw,wliw, what do you think is going to happen with METV ultimatum?


From MeTv WJLP facbook page it states they won a federal court appeals maintaining their stay of VHF 3 / 3.10 ufn. The Dec 1 deadline is null now that WJLP will continue to transmit and remain on 3.


----------



## icemannyr

Since I can not receive WJLP using my indoor HDTV antenna, in the North Eastern, NJ area, I tried connecting my outdoor scanner and ham discone antenna to the TV.
After the channel search was able to get reception of WJLP along with WPIX-DT and WNET-DT which I could get reception of using my indoor HD antenna.
The specs for the antenna say 25-1300MHz coverage.


----------



## uhfyagi

*metv is staying*

great news here is the link pmcmtv.com


----------



## roseha

mrsat94 said:


> From MeTv WJLP facbook page it states they won a federal court appeals maintaining their stay of VHF 3 / 3.10 ufn. The Dec 1 deadline is null now that WJLP will continue to transmit and remain on 3.



Yes great news. By the way WJLP continues to show up on my Samsung TV and my Tivo, so much the better.


----------



## LenL

*Snow*

Interesting that my outdoor antennas all had a 1-2 inch coating of snow and ice on them (pretty much all the elements) and yet reception was not impacted. In fact they are still quite coated today.


----------



## speedlaw

uhfyagi said:


> great news here is the link pmcmtv.com


What is fascinating here is that the FCC is so interested in this. One gets the distinct impression that a few well placed phone calls were made at the behest of the various cable companies who didn't like the idea (which was the whole point of this-no one would choose vhf-lo for atsc) that they would have to put this upstart in their channel tier. '

Regulatory capture ?


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> Interesting that my outdoor antennas all had a 1-2 inch coating of snow and ice on them (pretty much all the elements) and yet reception was not impacted. In fact they are still quite coated today.


Len, How far are you from the ESB? I am about 33 miles from the ESB. I am on a south facing hill, however I am not line off site, at least I do not think I am (I am crazy, but not crazy enough to try climbing up the antenna mast to check if I can see the ESB ).

All I know is the de-icing instantly fixed my problem of bad or no reception.


----------



## uhfyagi

speedlaw said:


> What is fascinating here is that the FCC is so interested in this. One gets the distinct impression that a few well placed phone calls were made at the behest of the various cable companies who didn't like the idea (which was the whole point of this-no one would choose vhf-lo for atsc) that they would have to put this upstart in their channel tier. '
> 
> Regulatory capture ?


I get the feelin this isnt over, much has been made of this to just go away, a little bendin of ears will sway for cbs ion again these networks have powerful lobbyist on their payroll


----------



## LenL

ALP said:


> Len, How far are you from the ESB? I am about 33 miles from the ESB. I am on a south facing hill, however I am not line off site, at least I do not think I am (I am crazy, but not crazy enough to try climbing up the antenna mast to check if I can see the ESB ).
> 
> All I know is the de-icing instantly fixed my problem of bad or no reception.



I'm about 30 miles west/northwest as the crow flies. I do not have line of sight as I am on the back end of a hill and my antennas are pointed towards the top and do not quite peek over the top.


I guess I am lucky I get what I get which is quite good all things considered.


----------



## veedon

speedlaw said:


> What is fascinating here is that the FCC is so interested in this. One gets the distinct impression that a few well placed phone calls were made at the behest of the various cable companies who didn't like the idea (which was the whole point of this-no one would choose vhf-lo for atsc) that they would have to put this upstart in their channel tier. '
> 
> Regulatory capture ?


A lot of cable TV subscribers don't even know what the channel positions of the channels are on the cable system. They just use the interactive menus or just wander across something while channel surfing. Channel position is important, because if your channel is near the popular channels, then people are more likely to come across your channel while surfing. A lot of cable subscribers don't even bother to surf into the weird channel numbers; they just hang out in the familiar territory.

People are paying for zillions of channels, some of which they don't even know exist and could not find even if they did know of their existence.

And a lot of cable subscribers have no idea that the "subchannels" for the broadcast stations have any connection to the main channels.


----------



## ALP

This is a test. I am having trouble posting.


----------



## ALP

Here are some pictures of my antenna de-icing. As they say on TV "Do not try this at home". 

It looks like I am still having problems posting the pictures. Can anyone give me some help on posting pictures?

It now looks like it worked.


----------



## Trip in VA

speedlaw said:


> What is fascinating here is that the FCC is so interested in this.


It's the FCC's job to be interested in this, so I'm not sure why it's "fascinating." That's like saying it's "fascinating" that HHS is interested in the Affordable Care Act website or that it's "fascinating" that the CIA is interested in foreign intelligence, then turning it into a conspiracy.

The FCC is "so interested" because it threatens to turn the virtual channel system into a mess. What would then stop WNYJ from seeking 6-10? WRNN from 12-10? WLNY from 10-10? The rule is written to prevent such confusing messes, and WJLP is trying to have the rule rendered useless.

- Trip


----------



## lyndx

Since about a week ago, I am unable to receive WPIX and WLIW or any of their digital subs OTA. I am located 17 miles east of Manhattan and every other NYC, NJ and Long Island station comes in fine. I have a good antenna on a rotor but rotating the antenna doesn't help. I checked my receiver to make sure the channels aren't on the skip list. I also tried rescanning them.

Has something happened with those two stations that I'm not aware of? Is anyone else having this problem?


----------



## veedon

speedlaw said:


> What is fascinating here is that the FCC is so interested in this. One gets the distinct impression that a few well placed phone calls were made at the behest of the various cable companies who didn't like the idea (which was the whole point of this-no one would choose vhf-lo for atsc) that they would have to put this upstart in their channel tier. '
> 
> Regulatory capture ?


I understand why the FCC has to make assignments of virtual channel numbers. What I don't understand is why it is taking so long in the case of WJLP, especially since the FCC has already lost once in federal court when the court forced the FCC to allow the license to be transferred from Nevada to New Jersey. I would think that at that point the FCC would be tired of all the wrangling and since the vast majority of the NYC market has never had a "Channel 3", the FCC would try to just make things work smoothly and allow WJLP to be Channel 3 for NYC (just as it was channel 3 in Nevada), while doing whatever needs to be done to allow KYW to keep its Channel 3 branding for Philadelphia and to allow WFSB to keep its Channel 3 branding in Connecticut.

As for the cable companies, the FCC should not give a hoot about them. The cable companies need to explain why they carry so much dreck.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Post #200 ! 


Trip in VA said:


> It's the FCC's job to be interested in this, so I'm not sure why it's "fascinating." That's like saying it's "fascinating" that HHS is interested in the Affordable Care Act website or that it's "fascinating" that the CIA is interested in foreign intelligence, then turning it into a conspiracy.
> 
> The FCC is "so interested" because it threatens to turn the virtual channel system into a mess. What would then stop WNYJ from seeking 6-10? WRNN from 12-10? WLNY from 10-10? The rule is written to prevent such confusing messes, and WJLP is trying to have the rule rendered useless.
> 
> - Trip


The slippery-slope argument doesn't necessarily apply here.

Of the three scenarios you've laid out, only one - WLNY-TV - is plausible. And the exception regarding WLNY-TV is based upon the station's enormous channel 10 presence on just about every MSTV provider in the New York City market. That notwithstanding, such a request from CBS to reassign the WLNY-TV virtual channel would be both moot and redundant; there is no such necessity when the cable carriage is already in place.

From PMCM TV's pleadings, the company is not trying to have the rule rendered useless; they are in fact using the rule to substantiate their rights to the channel 3 on-air branding and virtual position. And so far, two federal appeals court rulings have verified PMCM TV's interpretation of the law as accurate and lawful.



veedon said:


> I understand why the FCC has to make assignments of virtual channel numbers. What I don't understand is why it is taking so long in the case of WJLP, especially since the FCC has already lost once in federal court when the court forced the FCC to allow the license to be transferred from Nevada to New Jersey. I would think that at that point the FCC would be tired of all the wrangling and since the vast majority of the NYC market has never had a "Channel 3", the FCC would try to just make things work smoothly and allow WJLP to be Channel 3 for NYC (just as it was channel 3 in Nevada), while doing whatever needs to be done to allow KYW to keep its Channel 3 branding for Philadelphia and to allow WFSB to keep its Channel 3 branding in Connecticut.
> 
> As for the cable companies, the FCC should not give a hoot about them. The cable companies need to explain why they carry so much dreck.


The FCC would probably not have gotten involved had it not been for the original complaint lodged by Meredith, and that out-of-state company's subsequent constant complaining.

It was initially right for the FCC to temporarily suspend WJLP's right to seek cable carriage until the channel number issue was resolved. There was a very real risk in creating confusion for viewers and placing unnecessary burdens on MSTV providers if WJLP was initially placed on channel 3 only to be subsequently displaced.

But it is also true that it would be a violation of federal law to suspend this station from broadcasting over the air on channel 3, and the recent court ruling reinforced this. The court ruling further proves that WJLP's present operation is harmless; were it otherwise, the court would have had the obligation to protect the public and reject PMCM TV's arguments.

This court ruling was not a decision on whether WJLP can use virtual 3-10 going forward, but it establishes that the current operation (which has WJLP using 3-10) is protected under federal law.

So, where does everything stand now? The FCC has been twice overturned by the federal appeals court in regard to the entire KVNV/WJLP matter from initial application to recent ruling. Meredith, likewise, has been twice overturned, first by the FCC and now by the Court, the latter ruling also overturning CBS and ION. The Court, by its ruling, upheld that WJLP is operating LEGALLY; No court can uphold illegal activity. And with the Court's granting of PMCM TV's motion for a stay, they have verified that PMCM TV has a reasonable chance of winning should the matter proceed further.

*It is now finally time for the FCC to permit PMCM TV to designate and request MSTV provider carriage for WJLP Middletown Township on Channel 3.*

What has curiously not yet been established in any of the comments or pleadings I have reviewed is whether any OTA viewers of KYW-TV or WFSB have been confused, harmed, or inconvenienced as a direct consequence of the WJLP signal. WJLP has been airing nearly non-stop on virtual 3-10 since September 30, 2014. I would think by now, viewers of either station have had time to make this determination and would have made their concerns, if any, known to either the station or the FCC.

If any of these broadcasting companies or the FCC truly maintain their positions that they are protecting viewers from a treacherous state of confusion or interference, they should promptly present evidence that supports such results. Otherwise, we are left to conclude that this is really a David and Goliath fight, and David is winning hands down. And while I will not speak for speedlaw or any other AVS forum member here, I think that is what is meant by the comment that the interest in this matter is "fascinating"

As to the "dreck" carried by so many cable providers, that is a content issue. It is not a matter for the FCC, unless the issue of long-form commercials is ever revisited, which I doubt will happen anytime soon. Essentially, while there once weren't enough channels, now there are too many channels, and few people know what should be on any of them because their programming has shifted so far away from the original mission of the channel.

Movies and especially sports programming is the big revenue driver for MSTV providers, and the main reasons why subscribers maintain their video packages. That and a generation who grew up in cable households, some of whom may have no idea that free TV is available through an antenna. The only way to stop the "dreck" is to cut the cord. If enough subscribers take that action, the cable providers will have to reform their business model. Until such time, however, expect continued monopolies that continue serving up rising rates and status quo programming.


----------



## LenL

ALP said:


> Here are some pictures of my antenna de-icing. As they say on TV "Do not try this at home".
> 
> It looks like I am still having problems posting the pictures. Can anyone give me some help on posting pictures?
> 
> It now looks like it worked.



Nice pictures! Be careful doing that!


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Post #200 !
> 
> 
> 
> This court ruling was not a decision on whether WJLP can use virtual 3-10 going forward, but it establishes that the current operation (which has WJLP using 3-10) is protected under federal law.
> 
> ...
> 
> What has curiously not yet been established in any of the comments or pleadings I have reviewed is whether any OTA viewers of KYW-TV or WFSB have been confused, harmed, or inconvenienced as a direct consequence of the WJLP signal. WJLP has been airing nearly non-stop on virtual 3-10 since September 30, 2014. I would think by now, viewers of either station have had time to make this determination and would have made their concerns, if any, known to either the station or the FCC.
> 
> If any of these broadcasting companies or the FCC truly maintain their positions that they are protecting viewers from a treacherous state of confusion or interference, they should promptly present evidence that supports such results. ...
> 
> As to the "dreck" carried by so many cable providers, that is a content issue. It is not a matter for the FCC, unless the issue of long-form commercials is ever revisited, which I doubt will happen anytime soon. Essentially, while there once weren't enough channels, now there are too many channels, and few people know what should be on any of them because their programming has shifted so far away from the original mission of the channel.


Well, mission creep is an understatement when we consider channels such as A&E and TLC. Could you imagine if Me-TV on WJLP wound up in a position adjacent to one of those? A person could be watching something perfectly charming on Me-TV, and all it would take is one inadvertent press of the channel up or channel down key rather than the volume adjustment keys to land in the red light district, so to speak.

As to confusion (or the lack thereof) being a criterion in guiding FCC decisions, well, that ship sailed away with the digital transition. The whole thing was handled in a confusing manner, and there was not much in the way of a campaign to truly educate the public about the viability of OTA broadcasting, the distinction between an RF channel number and a virtual channel number, the existence of defined markets for OTA broadcasting, etc.


----------



## uhfyagi

lyndx said:


> Since about a week ago, I am unable to receive WPIX and WLIW or any of their digital subs OTA. I am located 17 miles east of Manhattan and every other NYC, NJ and Long Island station comes in fine. I have a good antenna on a rotor but rotating the antenna doesn't help. I checked my receiver to make sure the channels aren't on the skip list. I also tried rescanning them.
> 
> Has something happened with those two stations that I'm not aware of? Is anyone else having this problem?


no, no problems to report both channels been running OK, I'm guessing your location is near the Queens and Nassau border, Do you receive wlny TV 55/10 ota? I ask cos I live in Queens and I can't. I do get the connecticut pbs ch49 and wtnh when signal is enhanced by atmospherics.


----------



## RNaval

JoeCraw said:


> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cpto_
> *I hope we can stay focused here solely on information regarding the going-live dates, power, and coverage of the returning NY OTA HDTV channels.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok Rick, for what it is worth I will give a little summary of what channels I can receive and my equipment.
> 
> 
> I have an RCA DTC-100, a UHF/VHF Radio Shack antenna and a Radio Shack amp. I am located in Plainview, NY, which is right in the middle of Long Island (north to south) and on the Nassau/Suffolk border. With the antenna pointed to NYC I receive the following digital signals:
> 
> WCBS 2-1 (Strong with great HD)
> 
> FOX 5-1 (Strong but not HD)
> 
> WOR 5-2 (Strong but lousy picture quality)
> 
> WPIX 11-1 (12-1,75-1) (Good with great HD, a few breakups)
> 
> WLIW 21-1 (Fair with great HD, many breakups, but watchable)
> 
> 
> If I turn my antenna North toward CT I can receive:
> 
> WTNH (ABC) on channel 10-1 (Good with great HD, a few breakups)
> 
> 
> As far as the return of some NY OTA channels, the man to ask is George Thompson. The last post I read from him said "Early Sept is a little too optimistic I think" but he does believe the ESB combiner will be going this fall.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Joe
Click to expand...

I'm located in Melville, close to Plainview. Is there an indoor antenna that will allow me to get HD reception? I assume only the LI station -55 - is within viewing distance. Please let me know if you have had any experience with this.


----------



## uhfyagi

Post your tvfool report. tvfool.com


----------



## frysk

Hey all, I'm just northwest of Paterson on the back side of a hill. I have an antenna on the roof pointing directly at trees and houses. Most of the year my reception is fine but when it turns cold I have issues with pixellation and sound drop outs on all channels. When it warms up again the issues go away. I have tried re-aiming the antenna but that did not help. I think my coax run is pretty long (but under 100 ft) so I'm not sure if I should be trying an amp or pre-amp. I use neither right now. Thanks for any suggestions.

I'm not allowed to post a link yet so you have to de-cypher this:

w.w.w.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd24303eecf201b


----------



## ALP

frysk said:


> Hey all, I'm just northwest of Paterson on the back side of a hill. I have an antenna on the roof pointing directly at trees and houses. Most of the year my reception is fine but when it turns cold I have issues with pixellation and sound drop outs on all channels. When it warms up again the issues go away. I have tried re-aiming the antenna but that did not help. I think my coax run is pretty long (but under 100 ft) so I'm not sure if I should be trying an amp or pre-amp. I use neither right now. Thanks for any suggestions.
> 
> I'm not allowed to post a link yet so you have to de-cypher this:
> 
> w.w.w.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd24303eecf201b


Fifty feet is considered a long run. Not sure an amp will help your seasonal problem, but it might.


----------



## Aero 1

frysk said:


> Hey all, I'm just northwest of Paterson on the back side of a hill. I have an antenna on the roof pointing directly at trees and houses. Most of the year my reception is fine but when it turns cold I have issues with pixellation and sound drop outs on all channels. When it warms up again the issues go away. I have tried re-aiming the antenna but that did not help. I think my coax run is pretty long (but under 100 ft) so I'm not sure if I should be trying an amp or pre-amp. I use neither right now. Thanks for any suggestions.
> 
> I'm not allowed to post a link yet so you have to de-cypher this:
> 
> w.w.w.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd24303eecf201b


your antenna is at 20ft. go higher.


----------



## LenL

*PreAMP*



frysk said:


> Hey all, I'm just northwest of Paterson on the back side of a hill. I have an antenna on the roof pointing directly at trees and houses. Most of the year my reception is fine but when it turns cold I have issues with pixellation and sound drop outs on all channels. When it warms up again the issues go away. I have tried re-aiming the antenna but that did not help. I think my coax run is pretty long (but under 100 ft) so I'm not sure if I should be trying an amp or pre-amp. I use neither right now. Thanks for any suggestions.
> 
> I'm not allowed to post a link yet so you have to de-cypher this:
> 
> w.w.w.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd24303eecf201b



Get yourself a good Channel Master Preamp 7777 or 7778. Chances are it will he you to keep the signal you have at the antenna and get it to your TV. If your coax run is over 50 feet you are losing signal. Are you splitting the signal to other TVs or devices like a DVR? Or is it only going to one TV?


----------



## nyctveng

frysk said:


> Hey all, I'm just northwest of Paterson on the back side of a hill. I have an antenna on the roof pointing directly at trees and houses. Most of the year my reception is fine but when it turns cold I have issues with pixellation and sound drop outs on all channels. When it warms up again the issues go away. I have tried re-aiming the antenna but that did not help. I think my coax run is pretty long (but under 100 ft) so I'm not sure if I should be trying an amp or pre-amp. I use neither right now. Thanks for any suggestions.
> 
> I'm not allowed to post a link yet so you have to de-cypher this:
> 
> w.w.w.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd24303eecf201b


Like LenL suggested, a better antenna will help and so will a pre-amp. Trying a pre-amp first is probably an easier solution due to dangers and trouble of replacing a big antenna on the roof. Your receive levels are probably borderline and the weather is affecting it; amp may fix that. Good luck!


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Don't even *THINK* about using a CM7777 amp in this location, you've got about 1.3 megawatts of effective radiated power less than 6 miles away from a tower on the MSU campus. With 30 dB of gain, it (a CM7777) will overload from your strong LOS signals. There are very few amps that won't overload from those strong signals from the SSW. Quite honestly, you might try some attenuation or an FM trap on the input of your TV set since the loss of leaves will cause much stronger signals.

Here is your TVFool plot: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd24303eecf201b

You didn't identify your antenna. Please do so. Your antenna selection may have a lot to do with your problems.



> Fifty feet is considered a long run.


Really? 50' of RG6 would be less than 3 dB attenuation at 700 MHz, less at lower frequencies. That's less signal attenuation than a two port splitter (~3.5-4.x dB). 100' of RG6 is about the same as a good quality balanced 3-port splitter, less than 6 dB.


----------



## Aero 1

ProjectSHO89 said:


> Don't even *THINK* about using a CM7777 amp in this location, you've got about 1.3 megawatts of effective radiated power less than 6 miles away from a tower on the MSU campus. With 30 dB of gain, it (a CM7777) will overload from your strong LOS signals. There are very few amps that won't overload from those strong signals from the SSW. Quite honestly, you might try some attenuation or an FM trap on the input of your TV set since the loss of leaves will cause much stronger signals.
> 
> Here is your TVFool plot: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd24303eecf201b
> 
> You didn't identify your antenna. Please do so. Your antenna selection may have a lot to do with your problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? 50' of RG6 would be less than 3 dB attenuation at 700 MHz, less at lower frequencies. That's less signal attenuation than a two port splitter (~3.5-4.x dB). 100' of RG6 is about the same as a good quality balanced 3-port splitter, less than 6 dB.


Yep, thats why i said go higher and didnt mention adding an amp. i live 2 miles away from his location and my tv fool report is almost identical to his, but his is a better. although we are 1 and 2 edge, signals are very strong around here. When i first started, i added a 7777 to fix some issues but it wound up killing most frequencies. My solution was to simply go higher in elevation. 100' of coax is nothing. adding the coax on my 3 antennas (1 in the attic, 2 on the roof) after they are ganged together and when they finally make it to the last tv, its got to 200 ft, all without an amp and no signal issues at all. Levels are so good around here that i recently got an Antennas Direct CS 1 to play with, mounted on my camera tripod at eye level, pointed it 60 degrees away from ESB towards WNYJ and got perfect reception on all UHF stations from ESB and WNYJ.

Give more details like antenna type, its location, which stations are you having problems, etc. Im betting its the height if its true that you only have it at 20 ft. 

here is my tv fool report, very close to yours and i have no issues at all. my antennas are pointing parallel to rt 46 at rt 3 towards trees, the big building in little falls on the peak near MSR on rt 46/rt 3 and 2 big valleys toward esb as you drive down rt 3. 

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=e1c6f7894dc857


----------



## LenL

*Antenna Height*

Can sometimes be way overrated especially for UHF. I am living proof. I have 3 antennas on my mast (I should send a picture). One of them is a CM 4228. It is only 3 feet off the ground and is staring at a fence about 10 feet or less away. No preamp. However I am using a distribution amp with it. I am on the downside of a hill. That antenna is pulling in 2.1 (CBS) in the mid 90s and 4.1 (NBC) and FOX 5.1 in the mid 80s. I also get a bunch of other stations in the 80s. No VHF though. Of course since I just put it up this fall I expect when the leaves come back and the reruns the reception will go south. However the results show everyone's situation and location is subject to experimentation to find what works.


My other antennas which are higher up won't get may much without preamps.


----------



## uhfyagi

I'm having issues receiving wnbc rf28 I use a rooftop mounted small yagi for all my stations, i'm 6 miles from esb so all stations including vhf come in great, except nbc I have the yagi aimed directly at esb. i pick up wliw on the backside also wedw rf49 and rnn rf 48 come in strong. question has nbc lowered there erp? if not is their signal unilateral or omni present. if anyone knows let me know. thxs


----------



## ProjectSHO89

Move your antenna and try again. The problem is on your end due to where the antenna just happens to be situated and it's in a dead spot for that station. It might only take a relocation of 6-12 inches...or 6-12 '.


----------



## uhfyagi

I tried that it cos me to lose some channels off axis, I try an antenna with larger reception pattern, 4 bay antenna db4 or cm 4221.


----------



## uhfyagi

hooked up a diy 2 bay uhf antenna, its performance is surprising good, I get my locals exceptionally well here,

Rip pugsley adams


----------



## frysk

Thank you for the responses. Looking at the radio shack website, I'm pretty sure I have an Antennacraft C290. I have it on the lower corner of my roof because I mounted it where the previous owner had a satellite dish. I'm fairly confident that mounting to the chimney would make the ever so slight difference that I need to get a perfect signal. I just don't fully understand why I only have issues when the leaves are OFF the trees. I'd think it'd be the other way around.

I decided to plunk down $22 on a cheap pre-amp on the outside chance it solves my problem. I really don't want to move it if I don't have to...


----------



## dvdchance

I wish I knew why my reception is so markedly better when the weather is rainy.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WKOB-LD Charts Course For Rev'n, Then U-Turns To Retro TV*

*WKOB-LD Charts Course For Rev'n, Then U-Turns To Retro TV*​ 
Nave Communication LLC's WKOB-LD New York (RF Channel 2/Virtual Channel 42) must compare notes with Santa Claus as both seem to bring gifts each December. This year, New York City market OTA viewers will find a new present from WKOB-LD: A brand new subchannel.

For the first time since it's inception as a digital TV station back in 2010, WKOB-LD has launched a seventh subchannel, virtual channel 42-7. The new subchannel was lit up by Nave on December 1, 2014 in order to accommodate Luken Communications new OTA diginet, *Rev'n*, which was launched at 4:57PM EDT. on that same day. Accordingly, the TVCT channel name on virtual channel 42-7 was "Rev'n". *Rev'n* is a theme network geared for the automobile enthusiast and includes programs focused on cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, ATVs, snowmobiles, events, auctions and more.

But nine days later, on December 9, 2014, WKOB-LD charted a new course by taking a u-turn which took the station back in time, much like the "Doctor" from the planet of Gallifrey. At some point during that day, Nave discontinued the *Rev'n* affiliation on WKOB-LD and replaced it with *Retro TV*. Accordingly, the TVCT channel name on virtual channel 42-7 is now "Retro".

Retro TV returns to the WKOB-LD lineup following a three-year absence. It's prior incarnation, as Retro Television Network (RTV), ended with WKOB-LD pulling the station on September 26, 2011. Throughout the first time it was carried on WKOB-LD, the retransmitted signal suffered from intermittent aural and color distortion issues which were isolated to the feed WKOB-LD received from RTV. This interference presented a challenging and often frustrating viewing experience to many fans who resoundingly welcomed the news that RTV, a classic TV network whose distribution consists largely of over-the-air digital subchannels, would be available to viewers in and around New York City. Prior to the discontinuance, RTV had also lost access to the NBC/Universal library, which resulted in many popular shows being removed and replaced with recent programming that deviated from the classic TV theme.

During the past three years, RTV has went through several positive changes, including a rebranding as *Retro TV* and the acquisition of some popular movie and TV shows, some of which are described as cult classics, including _Doctor Who _and_ Mystery Science Theater 3000._

The WKOB-LD broadcast signal unfortunately remains a challenge. The presently authorized 300 watts over VHF-Lo RF channel 2 allows for nearly all interference to wreck the usable signal. While it would be interesting to see whether increasing the ERP at this facility would improve the signal, Nave has a more ambitious plan: Relocating the signal to West Orange, NJ., moving to UHF RF channel 42, and increasing the ERP five-fold to 2,500 watts. The station has recently filed for an extension of its construction permit to build this facility, said extension having been approved by the FCC. The build-out is now expected to be completed within the first half of 2015.

Meanwhile, the lineup at WKOB-LD remains stable. The primary channel leads off the lineup with an EBR Test Pattern, and is labeled "WKOB-LD" via the TVCT. Religious programming remains prominent on the channel via *Daystar*, *Peace TV*, *Guide US TV*, and *Sonlife Broadcasting Network*. And *OnTV4U* provides the Hispanic audience with a unique service in this market: Infomercials en español.

With the addition of *Retro TV *on WKOB-LD, the New York City market now has access to every major classic TV diginet.


See other WKOB-LD related topics:

Soul of the South Television Debuts on WKOB-LD New York
WKOB-LD LAUNCHES TWO MORE SUBCHANNELS
HOT TV Network returns to WKOB-LD 42.3 
TELOS ALTERNATIVE HEALTH NETWORK NOW AVAILABLE IN NEW YORK CITY 
MUNDO HISPANO TV (MHTV) RETURNS TO NYC TV AIRWAVES 
RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED


----------



## veedon

frysk said:


> I just don't fully understand why I only have issues when the leaves are OFF the trees. I'd think it'd be the other way around.


I never quite understood those wave diagrams from high school physics, but is it possible that at your location, when the leaves are off the trees, you wind up having a decently strong reflected wave that competes with a direct wave in a way that causes your tuner not to be able to tune the stations? And then when the leaves appear, they weaken the reflection to the point where it can no longer disrupt the direct wave?


----------



## uhfyagi

thank you rocco, i been wanting retrotv back for some time  you made my xmas


----------



## Vengabus (Richard)

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> *WKOB-LD Charts Course For Rev'n, Then U-Turns To Retro TV*​
> Nave Communication LLC's WKOB-LD New York (RF Channel 2/Virtual Channel 42) must compare notes with Santa Claus as both seem to bring gifts each December. This year, New York City market OTA viewers will find a new present from WKOB-LD: A brand new subchannel.
> 
> For the first time since it's inception as a digital TV station back in 2010, WKOB-LD has launched a seventh subchannel, virtual channel 42-7. The new subchannel was lit up by Nave on December 1, 2014 in order to accommodate Luken Communications new OTA diginet, *Rev'n*, which was launched at 4:57PM EDT. on that same day. Accordingly, the TVCT channel name on virtual channel 42-7 was "Rev'n". *Rev'n* is a theme network geared for the automobile enthusiast and includes programs focused on cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, ATVs, snowmobiles, events, auctions and more.
> 
> But nine days later, on December 9, 2014, WKOB-LD charted a new course by taking a u-turn which took the station back in time, much like the "Doctor" from the planet of Gallifrey. At some point during that day, Nave discontinued the *Rev'n* affiliation on WKOB-LD and replaced it with *Retro TV*. Accordingly, the TVCT channel name on virtual channel 42-7 is now "Retro".
> 
> Retro TV returns to the WKOB-LD lineup following a three-year absence. It's prior incarnation, as Retro Television Network (RTV), ended with WKOB-LD pulling the station on September 26, 2011. Throughout the first time it was carried on WKOB-LD, the retransmitted signal suffered from intermittent aural and color distortion issues which were isolated to the feed WKOB-LD received from RTV. This interference presented a challenging and often frustrating viewing experience to many fans who resoundingly welcomed the news that RTV, a classic TV network whose distribution consists largely of over-the-air digital subchannels, would be available to viewers in and around New York City. Prior to the discontinuance, RTV had also lost access to the NBC/Universal library, which resulted in many popular shows being removed and replaced with recent programming that deviated from the classic TV theme.
> 
> During the past three years, RTV has went through several positive changes, including a rebranding as *Retro TV* and the acquisition of some popular movie and TV shows, some of which are described as cult classics, including _Doctor Who _and_ Mystery Science Theater 3000._
> 
> The WKOB-LD broadcast signal unfortunately remains a challenge. The presently authorized 300 watts over VHF-Lo RF channel 2 allows for nearly all interference to wreck the usable signal. While it would be interesting to see whether increasing the ERP at this facility would improve the signal, Nave has a more ambitious plan: Relocating the signal to West Orange, NJ., moving to UHF RF channel 42, and increasing the ERP five-fold to 2,500 watts. The station has recently filed for an extension of its construction permit to build this facility, said extension having been approved by the FCC. The build-out is now expected to be completed within the first half of 2015.
> 
> Meanwhile, the lineup at WKOB-LD remains stable. The primary channel leads off the lineup with an EBR Test Pattern, and is labeled "WKOB-LD" via the TVCT. Religious programming remains prominent on the channel via *Daystar*, *Peace TV*, *Guide US TV*, and *Sonlife Broadcasting Network*. And *OnTV4U* provides the Hispanic audience with a unique service in this market: Infomercials en español.
> 
> With the addition of *Retro TV *on WKOB-LD, the New York City market now has access to every major classic TV diginet.
> 
> 
> See other WKOB-LD related topics:
> 
> Soul of the South Television Debuts on WKOB-LD New York
> WKOB-LD LAUNCHES TWO MORE SUBCHANNELS
> HOT TV Network returns to WKOB-LD 42.3
> TELOS ALTERNATIVE HEALTH NETWORK NOW AVAILABLE IN NEW YORK CITY
> MUNDO HISPANO TV (MHTV) RETURNS TO NYC TV AIRWAVES
> RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED


The "under-35 single adult male" is kind of a hotspot for OTA TV right now. On paper, REV'N looks better, but in reality, classic Dr. Who is probably killing it with that demographic. If it was WKOB's decision to change it up, that might be why.


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip, give us the heroes and icons network now!! sister station of METV


----------



## Trip in VA

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

I glanced over to philly ota saw that wfmz sub 69-3 do you see in your crystal ball this station coming here in the near future.


----------



## Trip in VA

No clue.

- Trip


----------



## reddice

WJLP is now on Dish Network on Channel 3 in HD.


----------



## frysk

I'm re-reading the responses and it's starting to sink in. Interference from nearby tower(s) makes a lot of sense. ...Anybody want a barely used pre-amp? ;-)


----------



## uhfyagi

frysk said:


> I'm re-reading the responses and it's starting to sink in. Interference from nearby tower(s) makes a lot of sense. ...Anybody want a barely used pre-amp? ;-)


which preamp do you have, I trade you for it.


----------



## uhfyagi

frysk said:


> I'm re-reading the responses and it's starting to sink in. Interference from nearby tower(s) makes a lot of sense. ...Anybody want a barely used pre-amp? ;-)





Trip in VA said:


> No clue.
> 
> - Trip


wait a sec I thought you work for this co. no clue ?


----------



## Trip in VA

I've never worked for Weigel. I used to work for Luken, parent company of Retro TV, Rev'n, etc., but now work for the FCC, as noted in my signature, and have for more than 18 months now.

- Trip


----------



## frysk

uhfyagi said:


> which preamp do you have, I trade you for it.


sure would be nice if I could PM you...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003P92D9Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

like I said, it's a cheap one.


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> I've never worked for Weigel. I used to work for Luken, parent company of Retro TV, Rev'n, etc., but now work for the FCC, as noted in my signature, and have for more than 18 months now.
> 
> - Trip


cool years back I was stationed at Quantico, va. I use commute from fairfax to Richmond va. nice backdrop great memories.


----------



## uhfyagi

frysk said:


> sure would be nice if I could PM you...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003P92D9Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> like I said, it's a cheap one.


go ahead pm me.


----------



## unsmiley

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> *WKOB-LD Charts Course For Rev'n, Then U-Turns To Retro TV*​
> 
> 
> 
> Nave Communication LLC's WKOB-LD New York (RF Channel 2/Virtual Channel 42) must compare notes with Santa Claus as both seem to bring gifts each December. This year, New York City market OTA viewers will find a new present from WKOB-LD: A brand new subchannel.
> 
> For the first time since it's inception as a digital TV station back in 2010, WKOB-LD has launched a seventh subchannel, virtual channel 42-7. The new subchannel was lit up by Nave on December 1, 2014 in order to accommodate Luken Communications new OTA diginet, *Rev'n*, which was launched at 4:57PM EDT. on that same day. Accordingly, the TVCT channel name on virtual channel 42-7 was "Rev'n". *Rev'n* is a theme network geared for the automobile enthusiast and includes programs focused on cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, ATVs, snowmobiles, events, auctions and more.
> 
> But nine days later, on December 9, 2014, WKOB-LD charted a new course by taking a u-turn which took the station back in time, much like the "Doctor" from the planet of Gallifrey. At some point during that day, Nave discontinued the *Rev'n* affiliation on WKOB-LD and replaced it with *Retro TV*. Accordingly, the TVCT channel name on virtual channel 42-7 is now "Retro".
> 
> Retro TV returns to the WKOB-LD lineup following a three-year absence. It's prior incarnation, as Retro Television Network (RTV), ended with WKOB-LD pulling the station on September 26, 2011. Throughout the first time it was carried on WKOB-LD, the retransmitted signal suffered from intermittent aural and color distortion issues which were isolated to the feed WKOB-LD received from RTV. This interference presented a challenging and often frustrating viewing experience to many fans who resoundingly welcomed the news that RTV, a classic TV network whose distribution consists largely of over-the-air digital subchannels, would be available to viewers in and around New York City. Prior to the discontinuance, RTV had also lost access to the NBC/Universal library, which resulted in many popular shows being removed and replaced with recent programming that deviated from the classic TV theme.
> 
> During the past three years, RTV has went through several positive changes, including a rebranding as *Retro TV* and the acquisition of some popular movie and TV shows, some of which are described as cult classics, including _Doctor Who _and_ Mystery Science Theater 3000._
> 
> The WKOB-LD broadcast signal unfortunately remains a challenge. The presently authorized 300 watts over VHF-Lo RF channel 2 allows for nearly all interference to wreck the usable signal. While it would be interesting to see whether increasing the ERP at this facility would improve the signal, Nave has a more ambitious plan: Relocating the signal to West Orange, NJ., moving to UHF RF channel 42, and increasing the ERP five-fold to 2,500 watts. The station has recently filed for an extension of its construction permit to build this facility, said extension having been approved by the FCC. The build-out is now expected to be completed within the first half of 2015.
> 
> Meanwhile, the lineup at WKOB-LD remains stable. The primary channel leads off the lineup with an EBR Test Pattern, and is labeled "WKOB-LD" via the TVCT. Religious programming remains prominent on the channel via *Daystar*, *Peace TV*, *Guide US TV*, and *Sonlife Broadcasting Network*. And *OnTV4U* provides the Hispanic audience with a unique service in this market: Infomercials en español.
> 
> With the addition of *Retro TV *on WKOB-LD, the New York City market now has access to every major classic TV diginet.
> 
> 
> See other WKOB-LD related topics:
> 
> Soul of the South Television Debuts on WKOB-LD New York
> WKOB-LD LAUNCHES TWO MORE SUBCHANNELS
> HOT TV Network returns to WKOB-LD 42.3
> TELOS ALTERNATIVE HEALTH NETWORK NOW AVAILABLE IN NEW YORK CITY
> MUNDO HISPANO TV (MHTV) RETURNS TO NYC TV AIRWAVES
> RTV LOSES NEW YORK CITY AFFILIATE, LOCAL CLASSIC MOVIE STATION LAUNCHED


 Should I be able to pick this up in Manhattan? I cannot seem to tune anything on Channel 42 or 42-7, only getting "Weak signal" message.


----------



## uhfyagi

unsmiley said:


> Should I be able to pick this up in Manhattan? I cannot seem to tune anything on Channel 42 or 42-7, only getting "Weak signal" message.


we dont get heroes and icons channel sister station to metv. has better and way cooler lineup.



http://tvclassicsrus.blogspot.com/2014/09/new-diginet-heroes-icons-h.html


----------



## dstoffa

unsmiley said:


> Should I be able to pick this up in Manhattan? I cannot seem to tune anything on Channel 42 or 42-7, only getting "Weak signal" message.


WKOB-LD broadcasts on RF-2, a Low VHF frequency (actually the lowest). I can receive this station ~15 east of Manhattan with a Low-V antenna on the roof.

That being written, you will need the right antenna to receive it - located and oriented in the correct position. Try rabbit ears, and extend them to their maximum length, and point them flat at opposite ends.

Can you receive WJLP? They are broadcasting on RF-3, but at much higher power.

Are you receiving anything on 42-1, 42-2, 42-3, etc?

Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## uhfyagi

dstoffa said:


> WKOB-LD broadcasts on RF-2, a Low VHF frequency (actually the lowest). I can receive this station ~15 east of Manhattan with a Low-V antenna on the roof.
> 
> That being written, you will need the right antenna to receive it - located and oriented in the correct position. Try rabbit ears, and extend them to their maximum length, and point them flat at opposite ends.
> 
> Can you receive WJLP? They are broadcasting on RF-3, but at much higher power.
> 
> Are you receiving anything on 42-1, 42-2, 42-3, etc?
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


Im receiving wkob with less breakup the past few days. maybe they boosted the signal Im watchin retro on 42-7


----------



## reddice

Did not know Retro TV still existed. I always though Retro TV became Me TV. There are a lot of sub channels playing real classic TV shows unlike cable/satellite classic channels which all turned into modern shows and reality crap.


----------



## uhfyagi

reddice said:


> Did not know Retro TV still existed. I always though Retro TV became Me TV. There are a lot of sub channels playing real classic TV shows unlike cable/satellite classic channels which all turned into modern shows and reality crap.


yes I agree, Too many cop shows, that's why they beat lots of innocent civilians. the cops belive in the crap they watch on TV, they try to the same things in real life.


----------



## reddice

uhfyagi said:


> yes I agree, Too many cop shows, that's why they beat lots of innocent civilians. the cops belive in the crap they watch on TV, they try to the same things in real life.


I agree. I hate the new cop shows like CSI, L&O, CI. I even tried to watch Bones but I was only able to watch the first 9 episodes before bailing. They are all the same drama over and over again. Believe it or not my 87 year old Grandmother loves those shows which irritates me when she watches cop TV (My Network, ION).

I loved the old classic TV cop shows like Hawaii Five-O, Magnum PI, Rockford Files etc. They were different, not so gruesome and not the same old domestic violence, rape, hooker's murdered garbage that is today.


----------



## unsmiley

dstoffa said:


> WKOB-LD broadcasts on RF-2, a Low VHF frequency (actually the lowest). I can receive this station ~15 east of Manhattan with a Low-V antenna on the roof.
> 
> That being written, you will need the right antenna to receive it - located and oriented in the correct position. Try rabbit ears, and extend them to their maximum length, and point them flat at opposite ends.
> 
> Can you receive WJLP? They are broadcasting on RF-3, but at much higher power.
> 
> Are you receiving anything on 42-1, 42-2, 42-3, etc?
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


 I get WJLP just fine. On 42, only "Weak Signal" messages after extending my rabbit ears.


----------



## Greg2600

WKOB doesn't even exist for most people, you can't get it without a roof antenna.


----------



## uhfyagi

Greg2600 said:


> WKOB doesn't even exist for most people, you can't get it without a roof antenna.


I must be the exception then. I get it with small Yagi UHF 6 miles out, no Los I must add.


----------



## reddice

Where is WKOB currently broadcasting from? I have a outdoor antenna and I can't get it most of the time. I can get WJLP no problems though.


----------



## Greg2600

uhfyagi said:


> I must be the exception then. I get it with small Yagi UHF 6 miles out, no Los I must add.


That's an outside antenna, which is what I meant. You can't get that channel with rabbit ears or whatever they sell as HD Antennas these days.


----------



## uhfyagi

is difficult to pick up vhf low indoors I agree. I remember pre-digital all stations would come in, ghosting sucked, but you could've worked around it. I think that atsc can be enhanced to much like dvb-t where the ota can reach out longer distances and less interference from other frequencies.


----------



## PaulFrancis

Apparently, DECADES TV is coming to NYC on Channel 2.3 - either on January 16th or sometime in the first quarter of 2015.


----------



## PaulFrancis

http://audienceservices.cbs.com/feedback/decades.htm


----------



## Aero 1

*NY Stations Testing Signals From World Trade*

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/82062/ny-stations-testing-signals-from-world-trade/page/1

*Work is scheduled to start on Jan. 19 at One World Trade Center in lower Manhattan on installing a DTV transmission system that will be tested to glean data on signal strength and other characteristics of ATSC signals with the hope of luring back stations that relocated following the 9/11 destruction of the Twin Towers.*



> The Metropolitan Television Alliance, which represents 12 of the major TV stations in New York City, is planning to test the strength and coverage of broadcast signals from the tower atop One World Trade Center in lower Manhattan, the gleaming new skyscraper that replaced the Twin Towers lost in the 9/11 attacks 13 years ago.
> 
> If the tests go well, the MTVA stations may move their primary broadcast facilities to One World Trade Center, which at 1,776 feet is the tallest building in the Western hemisphere.
> 
> “There is unanimous interest on the part of everybody,” said an MTVA spokesman who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “We want to know if One World Trade Center will provide a superior place to broadcast from than we have today. Everybody wants to find out.”
> 
> Installation of temporary transmission facilities — VHF and UHF transmitters, exciters, rotatable antennas and ancillary RF components — is to set to begin Jan. 19 with testing to commence six to eight weeks after that.
> 
> The MTVA comprises the ABC Owned Television Stations (WABC), the NBC Owned Television Stations (WNBC and WNJU), CBS Television Stations (WCBS), Fox Television Stations (WNYW and WWOR), Tribune Media (WPIX), Ion Media (WPXN), Univision (WFUT and WXTV), noncommercial WNET and noncommercial WNYE.
> 
> The MTVA stations had broadcast from the north tower of the World Trade Center for two decades. After the 9/11 attacks destroyed the platform, they relocated to other sites. Most now beam their signals from the Empire State Building.
> 
> As the new One World Trade Center began rising into the sky several years ago, the Durst Organization, which is managing the building, began trying to lure broadcasters back to lower Manhattan. The stakes are high. According to a 2012 prospectus, owners of the Empire State Building acknowledged that they earned nearly $16 million from broadcast tower leases in 2011.
> 
> For its test, MTVA will transmit from One World Trade Center at night on VHF ch. 12 and UHF ch. 32 under special temporary authority granted by the FCC.
> 
> Two LPTV stations, which use the channels for normal operations, have agreed to sign off air at night during the test period to support MTVA’s efforts, the MTVA spokesman said.
> 
> To collect reception data at various locations, MTVA has equipped a vehicle with a variety of antennas and monitoring gear. For purposes of comparison, the vehicle had already begun measuring reception in various locations from signals from Empire State.
> 
> At One World Trade Center, two GatesAir (formerly Harris Broadcast) transmitters, a Maxiva ULXT-10 UHF transmitter with 9 kW of transmitter power output, and a Maxiva VAX-3000 VHF transmitter with 2.25 kW of TPO (shown right), form the heart of the transmission system.
> 
> While the GatesAir units will be the first TV transmitters at One World Trade Center, they will not reside in building’s broadcast center on the 89th floor, but rather in a room on the 104th floor, said John Lyons, assistant VP and director of broadcasting for The Durst Organization.
> 
> The 17,000-square-foot broadcast center has not yet been completed, he said. When it is, it will be able to accommodate up to 11 TV and 21 radio stations.
> 
> Radio Frequency Systems, with regional headquarters in Meriden, Conn., is supplying circular-polarized VHF and UHF antennas for the test. The VHF antenna will deliver 5 kW effective radiated power, while the UHF antenna will transmit 230 kW ERP, the MTVA spokesman said.
> 
> To economize for the test, only single sections of antenna will be mounted to the tower. The UHF section will be mounted below the beacon at the top of the spire and the VHF section below the UHF antenna. Both antennas will be aimed north in the same direction as the Manhattan avenues.
> 
> “The antennas are going to be gimbal-mounted so we can swivel them around, and we can test various azimuths,” said Lyons.
> 
> No definite date has been set for completing the test; however, once MTVA has all of the data it needs the transmitters, antennas and other RF components supporting the effort will be removed from One World Trade Center, Lyons said.
> 
> MTVA’s test comes as the broadcasting industry works on new digital TV broadcast standard through the Advanced Television Systems Committee dubbed ATSC 3.0.
> 
> While MTVA will confine its test to the current ATSC 1.0 standard, and even exclude transmitting and analyzing a mobile DTV (A/153) signal, it may also provide useful information on how ATSC 3.0 signals from One World Trade Center may perform, said Rich Redmond, GatesAir chief product officer.
> 
> Multipath resulting from signal reflections off buildings and terrain is “somewhat independent of modulation” (single carrier ATSC vs. multicarrier OFDM), Redmond said.
> 
> For now, the focus is on data that will help stations determine if they can improve delivery of their over-the-air signal today by relocating to the new site. “What we are doing as MTVA is collecting data,” said the alliance spokesman. “How a station decides to use that is up to the individual station.”
> 
> However, the test is bringing a bigger picture into focus, said Redmond. The intense interest in understanding market coverage from One World Trade Center is indicative of how important over-the-air transmission is to TV broadcasters and the lengths to which they will go to ensure they deliver a superior signal, he said.
> 
> “This interest underscores the importance of wireless, free-to-air broadcasting and its place in the media landscape,” Redmond said. “These are top performing broadcast stations, and they are looking really hard at what is the best site to transmit from to maximize their coverage.”


----------



## uhfyagi

I for one rather they stay at esb. my signals are superb as of now. if it ain't broke why fix it.


----------



## nyctveng

uhfyagi said:


> I for one rather they stay at esb. my signals are superb as of now. if it ain't broke why fix it.


One reason: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/26/new-york-skyscraper-empire-state


----------



## LenL

*Yes But*



nyctveng said:


> One reason: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/26/new-york-skyscraper-empire-state



The new skyscraper is lower than the ESB physical structure and so it will not be blocking the broadcast masts in the slightest. Could it impact reception? Doubtful but I guess we will have to see.


There is no guarantee that reception will be the same or better for everyone if moved to lower Manhattan either. It's a false assumption that it will be.


----------



## reddice

All I remember is that FM stations on the old 1WTC (89.9, 93.1, 93.9 and 103.5) were so strong they use to bleed into other stations and I had no problems getting analog TV stations from the old 1WTC either but other stations that broadcasted on the ESB like channel 41 & 68 was so fuzzy. Of course I lived in Brooklyn about 2 miles from old 1WTC and could see it outside my window. I can still see the new 1WTC Freedom Tower too.

I hope the stations do move to the new 1WTC Freedom Tower.


----------



## dstoffa

nyctveng said:


> One reason: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/26/new-york-skyscraper-empire-state


I am not holding my breath. The article is 4+ years old. I will begin to worry once I see them start tearing down the Hotel Pennsylvania, whose phone number still is, PEnnsylvania6-5000.


Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## Aero 1

Decades TV launched this morning on 2.2. They are showing the Millionaire in what they call "The Series Binge" Marathon. 

The good news: They got the Aspect Ratio correct! for now.


----------



## LenL

Boo to decades TV. Nothing is worse than watching old grainy black and white shows on a state of the art LED TV. I wish they kept the news programming and did a better job of making it current!


----------



## wndhh1

LenL said:


> Boo to decades TV. Nothing is worse than watching old grainy black and white shows on a state of the art LED TV. I wish they kept the news programming and did a better job of making it current!


This is fill programming until the hard launch later 2nd quarter.


----------



## roseha

Does anyone have a link to the *Decades* schedule? They aren't really going to run *The Millionaire* all week, are they?


----------



## Mr Tony

I posted a link to the pdf's that WBAY Green Bay was going to add to 2-3...but then live Well stayed on the air for a couple months more so they didnt.

Hope they still work
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...46660-minneapolis-mn-ota-81.html#post30679017


----------



## Trip in VA

http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/ttv.aspx?siteid=50516

Decades replaced the TouchVision programming on 58.4, so you can use that to get the Decades listing.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Does anyone know where I can get an old CRT black and white screen TV so I can properly enjoy Decades TV in the way it was intended?


----------



## uhfyagi

Len I have 32" rca colortrak that I want to give away is workin good.


----------



## Aero 1

Official website and their "Binge" schedule all the way until the official launch in May has been released.

http://decades.com/

http://decades.com/file/DECADES_BINGE_Calendar.pdf


----------



## roseha

Trip in VA said:


> http://titantvguide.titantv.com/apg/ttv.aspx?siteid=50516
> 
> Decades replaced the TouchVision programming on 58.4, so you can use that to get the Decades listing.
> 
> - Trip


Thanks Trip, I just saw the New York City listings on Titan TV. *Get Smart* Marathon starts Jan. 25.

Thanks for the calendar Aero.


----------



## LenL

uhfyagi said:


> Len I have 32" rca colortrak that I want to give away is workin good.


Thanks but that is too state of the art to watch Decades TV. I need a black and white set made in the early 50s.


----------



## veedon

LenL said:


> Thanks but that is too state of the art to watch Decades TV. I need a black and white set made in the early 50s.


May I suggest the DuMont Royal Sovereign (1951 model)? 30 inches.

http://www.earlytelevision.org/american_postwar.html#sets


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> May I suggest the DuMont Royal Sovereign (1951 model)? 30 inches.
> 
> http://www.earlytelevision.org/american_postwar.html#sets


That is a good quality television set, veedon. But I couldn't find that model at Walmart or any brick-and-mortar retail electronics stores. Not even in clearance  So I'll check out Amazon.com and if I don't find it there, I'll visit eBay 



wndhh1 said:


> This is fill programming until the hard launch later 2nd quarter.


This soft launch will be one of the longest in television as its duration shall be 130 days.

However, for those viewing the station over WCBS-TV New York, please take note of the following: PSIP TVCT had displayed the channel name as *CBS NY+* on virtual channel 2-2 up until approximately 4AM. But apparently technical work is ongoing over at WCBS-TV this late Saturday night/early Sunday morning, and said work has resulted in the name being changed to *DECADES *just before 4AM.

Moreover - and for the sake of historical accuracy - it should be documented that just after the 3AM EDT. station ID on January 18, 2015, the CBS New York Plus information text panels and scroll appeared on-screen, minimizing the "DECADES PRELAUNCH PROGRAMMING" screen to the typical CBS NY+ upper-left window, for just under sixty seconds. Given the fact that the TVCT reflected the channel name as *CBS NY+* during this transmission, it could be technically argued that the final broadcast of that news and information service aired at that time.

As of 4AM EDT. on January 18, 2015, the technical specs for this stream are as follows: WCBS-TV broadcasts a static 480i SD stream with active audio and video content over RF Channel 33-2/Virtual Channel 2-2. *DECADES* is the TVCT channel short-name. Language is English. Time and program guide information are accurate. _DECADES_ appears as the current program, "DECADES PRELAUNCH PROGRAMMING" is the subject. It is a 60 minute looping program beginning at the top of each hour.


----------



## RF Burns

*Are you kidding me?*

 Aero 1 09:19 AM Yesterday Decades TV launched this morning on 2.2. They are showing the Millionaire in what they call "The Series Binge" Marathon. 

The good news: They got the Aspect Ratio correct! for now.

 LenL 10:07 AM Yesterday 

Boo to decades TV. Nothing is worse than watching old grainy black and white shows on a state of the art LED TV. I wish they kept the news programming and did a better job of making it current!


wndhh1 04:31 PM Yesterday 

Quote:
Originally Posted by *LenL*  
_Boo to decades TV. Nothing is worse than watching old grainy black and white shows on a state of the art LED TV. I wish they kept the news programming and did a better job of making it current!_

This is fill programming until the hard launch later 2nd quarter.


 roseha 12:33 AM Today 

Does anyone have a link to the *Decades* schedule? They aren't really going to run *The Millionaire* all week, are they?


 unclehonkey 12:47 AM Today 


======================================================================================================

To those who are complaining about the Millionaire, all I can say is that you have many alternatives and if you don't care for this show you should find a some other channel to entertain you. I've been looking for the Millionaire, on DVD or TV for years. This is fantastic news for me that finally I can watch and record episodes of this classic show. It ran for years on CBS and pops up rarely any longer. I found out about this marathon only after receiving an e-mail when I awoke this morning. Unfortunately the channel isn't available on FIOS where I could record the show onto DVR, so I am recording it on my DVD recorder in 8 hour mode, while I'm at work. They did say that following the Millionaire binge they'd be running a Mothers In Law binge. I finally found the schedule. http://decades.com/file/DECADES_BINGE_Calendar.pdf


----------



## veedon

Decades is soft launching with The Binge, huh?
Will they follow that with The Purge, telecasts of Senator Joe McCarthy?

Seriously, though, Decades could be an interesting channel.
Bill Kurtis from Chicago will be doing one of their series.


----------



## Aero 1

Another one coming April 15th. So much for the hope of live well going off the air and the hope of abc picture quality improvement. 

Laff: http://www.laff.com

*Exclusive: Comedy Multicast Net Launching on ABC, Scripps*

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/ne...dy-multicast-net-launching-abc-scripps/137199



> Exclusive: Comedy Multicast Net Launching on ABC, Scripps
> 
> The TV stations owned by ABC and E.W. Scripps Co. plan to carry a new multicast comedy network being launched by Katz Broadcasting on April 15.
> 
> The new multicast network, called LAFF, already claims coverage of 35% of the country.
> 
> The ABC stations plan to continue to air the Live Well multicast network. ABC said it would stop producing new episodes of Live Well programming and will no longer syndicate the network to other station groups, such as Scripps.
> 
> ABC said that until LAFF launches in April, its stations will carry Live Well on both its D2 and D3 digital signals. When LAFF launches, it will air on the stations D3 channel. Live Well will remain on the D2 channels.
> 
> LAFF is aimed at adults 18-49, with a linear network carried by broadcast stations and cable systems, plus digital content at LAFF.com and a LAFF app.
> 
> Katz Broadcasting previously has launched several multicast networks. It has Grit, aimed at men, and Escape aimed at women. Its CEO, Jonathan Katz, is also COO of Bounce TV, the broadcast network aimed at African-American viewers.
> 
> Like streaming, multicast TV appears to be growing at a time when pay TV subscriptions are declining. Homes with broadband but no cable are up, as are broadcast only homes.
> 
> “In launching three television networks within ten months, we are clearly very bullish on the renaissance of free broadcast television,” Katz said in a statement. “This burgeoning new broadcast ecosystem resembles the early days of basic cable, expanding to offer viewers diverse new choices and complementing the growing number of over-the-top subscription services.”
> 
> While a lot of older sitcoms air on classic TV multicast networks LAFF intends to have more contemporary content, the company said.
> 
> "LAFF will be an excellent addition to our subchannel lineup," Rebecca Campbell, president of the ABC Owned Television Station Group, said. "We are also committed to keeping Live Well Network up and running in our own markets, so that we can continue to provide unique local programming and pursue corporate synergy opportunities."
> 
> The ABC Owned Television Stations will carry LAFF in New York (WABC-TV), Los Angeles (KABC-TV), Chicago (WLS-TV), Philadelphia (WPVI-TV), San Francisco (KGO-TV), Houston (KTRK-TV), Raleigh (WTVD-TV) and Fresno (KFSN-TV).
> 
> E.W. Scripps Co. will launch LAFF on its stations in Detroit (WXYZ-TV), Phoenix (KNXV-TV), Tampa (WFTS-TV), Denver (KMGH-TV), Cleveland (WEWS-TV), Indianapolis (WRTV-TV), Baltimore (WMAR-TV), San Diego (KGTV-TV), Kansas City (KSHB-TV), Cincinnati (WCPO-TV), West Palm Beach (WPTV-TV), Buffalo (WKBW-TV) and Tulsa (KJRH-TV).
> 
> “The ABC Owned Television Stations and E.W. Scripps Company stations are among the strongest players in their DMAs, which include the biggest markets in the country. We are thrilled and proud to have these two preeminent groups as our charter distribution partners for LAFF,” added Katz Broadcasting chief distribution officer Jeffrey Wolf. “We look forward to welcoming more station groups to the LAFF family.”
> 
> ABC launched Live Well six years ago, featuring original programs about cooking, shelter and fitness. ABC previously said it would go dark this month on affiliate stations, but that it planned to continue to air the shows on its owned stations, with no new episodes being produced.
> 
> In its heyday, Live Well aired about a dozen half-hours of original programming daily and was carried in 64% of the country. But classic TV series on multicast networks like Me-TV turned out to be tough competition.
> 
> Gannett, which had carried Live Well previously agreed to carry the Justice Network, a new service from Lonnie Cooper, another founder of Bounce TV. Justice Network is run by three senior TV execs, former Nat Geo exec Steve Schiffman, former Discovery exec John Ford, and former NBCUniversal exec Barry Wallach.


----------



## veedon

Aero 1 said:


> Another one coming April 15th. So much for the hope of live well going off the air and the hope of abc picture quality improvement.


What does all that jazz about "corporate synergy opportunities" mean?
Does ABC plan to breathe new life into LWN eventually, but just doesn't know what its plans are yet? Or will LWN just be a zombie, repeating the same episodes over and over because nothing new is being produced or purchased?


----------



## Trip in VA

I would guess it's the latter.

- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> What does all that jazz about "corporate synergy opportunities" mean?
> Does ABC plan to breathe new life into LWN eventually, but just doesn't know what its plans are yet? Or will LWN just be a zombie, repeating the same episodes over and over because nothing new is being produced or purchased?


It seems like it is being used as a place holder. All the current cable systems that carry ABC and their 2 current LWN subchannels will continue to carry whatever ABC programs on them. It will cost virtually nothing to continue to run old content over and over. Down the road it may be replaced with something different.


----------



## Michael Vincent Praino

Been having some issues with my ota the last few days where it gets staticy every 30 seconds or so. I leave in Astoria Queens. Anyone else having issues lately?


----------



## Aero 1

And another one coming......an all game shows channel

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/...latest-diginet-buzzr-tv#.VL5ZF4A6HWw.facebook

*Fox O&Os Game For Latest Diginet: Buzzr TV*
*
The new multicast network from FremantleMedia North America and Debmar-Mercury will feature iconic game shows. It’s set for a summer launch.
*


> Fox Television Stations has acquired rights to new multicast network Buzzr TV from FremantleMedia North America (FMNA) and Debmar-Mercury.
> 
> Buzzr TV will showcase FremantleMedia’s library of game show content in all 17 Fox O&O markets, including nine out of the top 10, and 14 out of the top 20 DMAs.
> 
> Thom Beers, CEO of FremantleMedia North America, has made launching this channel a top priority, he said. “FremantleMedia has consistently been the leader in the game show space, with long-running and more-popular-than-ever titles such as Family Feud and The Price is Right. When I joined the company two years ago, it became instantly clear that there was a huge opportunity for us to not only be a producer in the space, but also a programmer.
> 
> “We are thrilled to have Fox, one of the nation’s largest owned-and-operated network broadcast groups, as our launch partner on Buzzr TV. Jack Abernethy and Frank Cicha’s enthusiasm for both the channel and our product was clear from the get-go, and we look forward to bringing this beloved genre to viewers across the country,” Beers added.
> 
> Frank Cicha, SVP of programming for Fox Television Stations, said: “Buzzr will be a great addition to our D2 portfolio. The possibilities to have fun creatively, and to make it fun for the viewer, are endless. And in a D2 landscape this competitive, the ability to control your own product is a big plus. FremantleMedia can certainly do that.”
> 
> Debmar-Mercury, which brokered the Buzzr TV deal on behalf of FMNA, will conduct meetings with FMNA and other major station groups at NATPE to expand the multicast network’s footprint.
> 
> “There is nothing else like Buzzr TV,” said Ira Bernstein and Mort Marcus, co-presidents of Lionsgate-owned Debmar-Mercury. “It will be the only game show network operating in the digital multicast universe, providing stations with a highly marketable asset. We believe the depth of the FremantleMedia library will allow the network to secure its future, offering viewers a proven, quality and unique alternative to other digital channels.”
> 
> FremantleMedia is the owner of a game show library with more than 40,000 episodes of game shows of yesterday and today. Iconic titles that will be featured when the channel launches include Family Feud, featuring hosts Richard Dawson, Ray Combs, Louis Anderson, Richard Karn and John O’Hurley; Let’s Make a Deal, featuring host Monty Hall; as well as famed titles To Tell the Truth, Password, Match Game, Beat the Clock, What’s My Line, Blockbusters and Card Sharks.


----------



## veedon

"Match Game" is swell, but without "The Gong Show", there's really nothing to dance about.


----------



## LenL

They need to put Howdie Doody, Buster Brown, and Captain Kangeroo on Decades. Then I need to get an old Philco or Emerson B&W TV so I can watch these old shows with my grandson. Then he can grow up to be instilled with the same TV education and values as his old fart grandpa!


----------



## LenL

Michael Vincent Praino said:


> Been having some issues with my ota the last few days where it gets staticy every 30 seconds or so. I leave in Astoria Queens. Anyone else having issues lately?



PIX 11 has been a problem for me. Usually I can get 13.1 and 11.1 with the same quality but lately I can get 13.1 and not 11.1.


----------



## veedon

LenL said:


> They need to put ... Captain Kangaroo on Decades. Then I need to get an old Philco or Emerson B&W TV so I can watch these old shows with my grandson. Then he can grow up to be instilled with the same TV education and values as his old fart grandpa!


Hide your carrots, and beware of knock-knock jokes that lead to a shower of ping-pong balls.


----------



## unsmiley

veedon said:


> "Match Game" is swell, but without "The Gong Show", there's really nothing to dance about.


 I agree. Love the Unknown Comic. And Chuck Barris lines like: "Gee, I loved your act. But then again I like soiled sheets."


----------



## dstoffa

unsmiley said:


> I agree. Love the Unknown Comic. And Chuck Barris lines like: "Gee, I loved your act. But then again I like soiled sheets."


I miss the Gong Show. The problem airing it is getting clearance to air it. Everyone who owns any rights to the songs performed demand more money than can be gained by airing the program...


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Technical Difficulties on WCBS-DT2 New York*

While watching WCBS-DT2 New York ("DECADES") on January 24, 2015 at approximately 2AM, the retransmitted signal began experiencing significant disruptions. The video often macro-blocked, so much to the point where the images would freeze and morph into a nearly 100% green still-frame and the audio would cease altogether. At some points, the entire signal cut-out completely. Presumably, this is weather related given the fact that the New York City metropolitan area is presently experiencing winter conditions in the form of heavy-moisture composite snow.

Apparently, the retransmitted signal was entirely disrupted, and currently, WCBS-TV main programming is being simulcast over the stream. All other PSIP elements of the stream remain unchanged. Apparently, during the occasions when the Decades programming is interrupted, the retransmitted signal will switchover to the same programming as is broadcast over the main stream.

A workable solution, certainly. But this begs the real question: How vulnerable is the Decades originating signal? For all intents and purposes, the NYC metropolitan area is not experiencing a significant storm; In fact, some would argue that this weather event can be described as a mere audition of a NYC winter event.

As of 7AM EDT., the stream remains in simulcast mode, as it has been continuously for the past five hours. And the "Series Binge" appears to have been purged by CBS major-market key-station WCBS-TV New York.


----------



## nyctveng

I don't know where the uplink is but obviously the vulnerable points are at the uplink and downlink and either or both got hit with snow overnight with no personnel to sweep dishes. Being that it's a new channel with no cable carriage at the moment, it would be hard to justify sending someone to clear the snow in the dark for the hand full of viewers. Down the road as cable carriage and viewership picks up, a redundant signal path could/should be in place. 




Giacomo Siffredi said:


> While watching WCBS-DT2 New York ("DECADES") on January 24, 2015 at approximately 2AM, the retransmitted signal began experiencing significant disruptions. The video often macro-blocked, so much to the point where the images would freeze and morph into a nearly 100% green still-frame and the audio would cease altogether. At some points, the entire signal cut-out completely. Presumably, this is weather related given the fact that the New York City metropolitan area is presently experiencing winter conditions in the form of heavy-moisture composite snow.
> 
> Apparently, the retransmitted signal was entirely disrupted, and currently, WCBS-TV main programming is being simulcast over the stream. All other PSIP elements of the stream remain unchanged. Apparently, during the occasions when the Decades programming is interrupted, the retransmitted signal will switchover to the same programming as is broadcast over the main stream.
> 
> A workable solution, certainly. But this begs the real question: How vulnerable is the Decades originating signal? For all intents and purposes, the NYC metropolitan area is not experiencing a significant storm; In fact, some would argue that this weather event can be described as a mere audition of a NYC winter event.
> 
> As of 7AM EDT., the stream remains in simulcast mode, as it has been continuously for the past five hours. And the "Series Binge" appears to have been purged by CBS major-market key-station WCBS-TV New York.


----------



## Posty-McPost

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> As of 7AM EDT., the stream remains in simulcast mode, as it has been continuously for the past five hours. And the "Series Binge" appears to have been purged by CBS major-market key-station WCBS-TV New York.


Back up now.


----------



## uhfyagi

can some other network like metv pickup H&I channel. retrotv is having problems with their picture synch. yes again for the forthieth time I stopped counting long ago.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> can some other network like metv pickup H&I channel. retrotv is having problems with their picture synch. yes again for the forthieth time I stopped counting long ago.


At least RetroTV is consistent. Had you posted this comment three years ago, during the network's first tenure on WKOB-LD, the signal synch comments would have been just as timely.

Regarding *Heroes and Icons*, Weigel presumably would have to negotiate for carriage over WJLP if they were interested in expanding that network's exposure into the New York City market. Given PMCM TV's current relationship with Weigel, WJLP would be the most likely destination. But were such a deal to materialize, the network would likely be added as a subchannel and under current rules would not be subject to MSTV retransmission rights.

In any event, the programming on MeTV and H&I overlap in several instances. That redundancy raises the issue of bitrate and PQ, and whether it would be worth diluting the present WJLP main stream PQ in order to accommodate such an addition. In my view, the PQ of MeTV as carried over WJLP is already diluted seeing as the video is zoomed. Further depreciation of bitrate to the main stream would intensify the errant visual artifacts. In the H&I addition scenario, PMCM TV seems intent on transmitting an HD-like signal over the main. Therefore, the subchannel (3-11) would likely be assigned a fixed bitrate significantly smaller than the main stream, thus prominently starving 3-11 and rendering the AQ and PQ over that stream to substandard levels.

Before contemplating the addition of any subchannels, PMCM TV would be better off correcting the existing video flaws in its present WJLP (3-10) signal first.


----------



## uhfyagi

are you high giocomo? metv has only 1 main ch at 720p they have lot of bandwidth for a sub. take a glimpse at wnye ch25 for example they transmit 3 chs 1 at 1080i another ch at 720p at 480i.


----------



## LenL

uhfyagi said:


> are you high giocomo? metv has only 1 main ch at 720p they have lot of bandwidth for a sub. take a glimpse at wnye ch25 for example they transmit 3 chs 1 at 1080i another ch at 720p at 480i.



Are you suggesting he is watching Meth TV?


----------



## unsmiley

Recently been getting mainly "No information"message on the programming guides for Channel 11 and its subchannels (with occasional mixups listing Channel 11-1 info when tuned to 11-2 -Antenna TV). In addition, now getting consistent "No information" on WJLP 3 guide. Any reason(s) for this?


----------



## uhfyagi

unsmiley said:


> Recently been getting mainly "No information"message on the programming guides for Channel 11 and its subchannels (with occasional mixups listing Channel 11-1 info when tuned to 11-2 -Antenna TV). In addition, now getting consistent "No information" on WJLP 3 guide. Any reason(s) for this?


yes the guide information is not being send, I'm seeing this on decades too.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WJLP Adds First Subchannel: "Justice" on Channel 3-11*



uhfyagi said:


> can some other network like metv pickup H&I channel. retrotv is having problems with their picture synch. yes again for the forthieth time I stopped counting long ago.





uhfyagi said:


> are you high giocomo? metv has only 1 main ch at 720p they have lot of bandwidth for a sub. take a glimpse at wnye ch25 for example they transmit 3 chs 1 at 1080i another ch at 720p at 480i.


WJLP Middletown Township has added its first subchannel since taking to the New York City market airwaves on September 30, 2014 and subsequently officially launching Me-TV network programming on October 1, 2014.

The new subchannel will serve as the New York City market affiliate for *Justice Network*. Programming on the network will consist of crime and court focused shows, including 400 hours of Turner Broadcasting programming library including some that originally aired on CourtTV/TruTV. The members (owners) of Justice Network, LLC. includes John Walsh and Lonnie Cooper, network founder, a founder of Bounce TV and Sports agency CSE’s CEO.

_Technical Specs_

The WJLP Middletown Township sub-channel broadcasts in 480i SD with a 3:4 static aspect-ratio. Language is English. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Justice* on virtual channel 3-11. The current program airing is _Justice Programming_ which is described as "Justice Programming".

Presently airing on the new stream is a slide bearing the "Justice Network" logo with "Coming Soon" typed below in blue Arial font. Both the logo and the text are centered. The background of the slide is solid white. There is audio which apparently is the current programming airing on Justice Network, which launched on January 20, 2015.

_Editor's Note_: I am happy that uhfyagi got his wish in that a new subchannel has been added over WJLP, albeit not the one he has been pining for.


----------



## uhfyagi

thank you Giacomo, I know you really meant to say a bird in the hand is worth two in a bush. 😊


----------



## Aero 1

WNBC down for anyone else? not getting anything, wonder if they are on the back up transmitter in West Orange.

Trip, not maintaining your graphs anymore? its a great, handy tool: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNBC


----------



## Trip in VA

The computer the signal strengths were being read with stopped responding to me about two days after my grandmother left for Florida for two or three months back in January. I can't do anything with it at the moment.

- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

Aero 1 said:


> WNBC down for anyone else? not getting anything, wonder if they are on the back up transmitter in West Orange.
> 
> Trip, not maintaining your graphs anymore? its a great, handy tool: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNBC


works here in Manhattan as of the time stamp of this message


----------



## Aero 1

nyctveng said:


> works here in Manhattan as of the time stamp of this message


came back around 5:30 or so, but it looks like it was down for a lot of the afternoon.


----------



## uhfyagi

If anyone needs an antenna goto to radioshack most stores are liquidating their inventory. I picked up some guy wire 3 rolls for 5 bucks. each are 10 dollars anywhere else. rotors are going for 30 dollars. 40-70 off on everything happy shopping.


----------



## SnellKrell

Aero 1 said:


> came back around 5:30 or so, but it looks like it was down for a lot of the afternoon.


On good authority, I heard that the Empire State Building had a burst water pipe yesterday!!!!

Water came into several suites. One of them was WNBC's.

WNBC Empire was off the air from about 2:35PM to sometime in the 5PM 
hour. Emergency repairs were performed by the station's crack engineer.

Anyone seeing WNBC OTA was looking at the West Orange backup transmitter.


----------



## uhfyagi

SnellKrell said:


> On good authority, I heard that the Empire State Building had a burst water pipe yesterday!!!!
> 
> Water came into several suites. One of them was WNBC's.
> 
> WNBC Empire was off the air from about 2:35PM to sometime in the 5PM
> hour. Emergency repairs were performed by the station's crack engineer.
> 
> Anyone seeing WNBC OTA was looking at the West Orange backup transmitter.


how come aero1 couldn't pickup the nbc backup transmitter west orange is right next to Totowa 
For the record I never receive nj stations as my Los is totally blocked by high rises


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> how come aero1 couldn't pickup the nbc backup transmitter west orange is right next to Totowa
> For the record I never receive nj stations as my Los is totally blocked by high rises


I dont get anything from Orange Mountain or WNYJ because my antenna is not pointed in that direction. i thought about getting a side by side 4 bay antenna like the Antennas direct DB8e and point one side to ESB and the other side to West Orange but getting a news station (WNYJ) that swaps foreign news programming every year is not work the ~$100 or so investment and roof climbing.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> I dont get anything from Orange Mountain or WNYJ because my antenna is not pointed in that direction. i thought about getting a side by side 4 bay antenna like the Antennas direct DB8e and point one side to ESB and the other side to West Orange but getting a news station (WNYJ) that swaps foreign news programming every year is not work the ~$100 or so investment and roof climbing.


you been so close to w.orange I thought it was a sinch to receive those stations. Do you get wnjn, rf51 rf18, ? I tried aiming antenna direct 91xg to get montclair, I resigned not getting those two stations. looking at the bitrate they putout wnjn should have a great pq.


----------



## Aero 1

uhfyagi said:


> you been so close to w.orange I thought it was a sinch to receive those stations. Do you get wnjn, rf51 rf18, ? I tried aiming antenna direct 91xg to get montclair, I resigned not getting those two stations. looking at the bitrate they putout wnjn should have a great pq.


I do get WNJN 51 and WMBC 18 because the antenna tower is right in the line of sight from my house and ESB 3 miles away. I can see the Montclair antenna if I stand on my roof.

WNJN does look great, better than WNET.


----------



## uhfyagi

Decades shows lots of series hope they show time tunnel or invaders gotta love those shows from the sixties well produced, nothing like it these days.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*The Destructive Effects of an RF3 Signal on Certain Consumer Receivers*

Speaking of *Decades*, the new CBS OTA diginet, presently airing "Decades Prelaunch Programming" that consists of numerous consecutive "Countdown to Decades Series Binge" marathons, is currently airing *The Donna Reed Show*. That ABC sitcom, which was produced and originally aired from 1958 through 1966, consists of 275 episodes within eight seasons, each of which was filmed in monochrome (black & white).

I therefore decided to connect my Digital TV converter box to a larger-screen monochrome television which was manufactured in the late 1970s so I could enjoy the true experience of watching a monochrome TV show on a monochrome television set.

Upon turning on the television, the signal was fine, albeit grainy. I tried adjusting the manual fine tuning, but that did not resolve the graininess. I then tried moving the RG-59U coaxial jumper (which is more than fifteen years old), and while that maneuver did modify the intensity of the graininess, I could not achieve any substantive improvement over the original condition.

Finally, I went into the converter box settings and changed the RF output channel from 3 to 4. Then, using the barrel tuner on the television, I changed the channel from 3 to 4. These adjustments resulted in a PERFECT signal.

This unscientific experiment has proven that the absence of a full-power broadcast television signal on RF channel 4 and the subsequent presence of a full-power broadcast television signal on RF channel 3 does, in fact, change the electromagnetic landscape of the New York City metropolitan region, particularly for end-users of consumer electronic devices that output to RF channel 3. Such devices include but are not limited to: Cable Television Converters/Descramblers, DTV Digital-to-Analog Converters, Home Computers from the 1970s and 1980s, Video Cassette Recorders (VCRs), Video Game Consoles from the 1970s and 1980s, among other such devices.

Owners and operators of these devices in this market that presently are set to output to RF channel 3 would be well advised to examine their current picture quality. If any graininess or other noise is found present within the signal, locate and retune that device's RF modulator to output to RF channel 4 to determine whether this improves the signal quality.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> ...the subsequent presence of a full-power broadcast television signal on RF channel 3 does, in fact, change the electromagnetic landscape of the New York City metropolitan region, particularly for end-users of consumer electronic devices that output to RF channel 3....
> 
> Owners and operators of these devices in this market that presently are set to output to RF channel 3 would be well advised to examine their current picture quality. If any graininess or other noise is found present within the signal, locate and retune that device's RF modulator to output to RF channel 4 to determine whether this improves the signal quality.


I don't think I understood all of that. I do know that back in the old days of analog broadcasting, NYC had a station (WNBC) on RF 4 but RF 3 was vacant, so owners of VCRs were advised to choose "Channel 3" as the channel on which to watch the VCR's feed. In other markets, where Channel 3 was occupied, Channel 4 would typically be vacant, so VCR users would set Channel 4 as the channel for playback of recordings.

Now, in the present digital age, NYC has WJLP on RF 3, but RF 4 is vacant (at least as far as full-power stations go). So are you saying that Channel 4 would now be the best channel to use for playback of VCR recordings?


----------



## dstoffa

veedon said:


> Now, in the present digital age, NYC has WJLP on RF 3, but RF 4 is vacant (at least as far as full-power stations go). So are you saying that Channel 4 would now be the best channel to use for playback of VCR recordings?


In a nutshell, yes.

However, there might be some equipment tailored for the market which, if still in use, cannot be switched. The old analog JERROLD click-three row cable boxes come to mind... assuming you can even make use of them...

For many, I doubt this is a problem. It might surface for those holding on to older equipment that doesn't use A/V jacks for displaying a picture...


Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey veedon,


veedon said:


> I don't think I understood all of that. I do know that back in the old days of analog broadcasting, NYC had a station (WNBC) on RF 4 but RF 3 was vacant, so owners of VCRs were advised to choose "Channel 3" as the channel on which to watch the VCR's feed. In other markets, where Channel 3 was occupied, Channel 4 would typically be vacant, so VCR users would set Channel 4 as the channel for playback of recordings.
> 
> Now, in the present digital age, NYC has WJLP on RF 3, but RF 4 is vacant (at least as far as full-power stations go). So are you saying that Channel 4 would now be the best channel to use for playback of VCR recordings?


Yes, that is essentially what I am saying.

What I also find interesting is that while receiving WJLP via an indoor antenna has proven very difficult for just about every viewer who has tried thus far, apparently the mere minimal presence of its signal is enough to create noticeably steady graininess for closed-ended private setups, such as with the equipment I referenced earlier.



dstoffa said:


> In a nutshell, yes.
> 
> However, there might be some equipment tailored for the market which, if still in use, cannot be switched. The old analog JERROLD click-three row cable boxes come to mind... assuming you can even make use of them...
> 
> For many, I doubt this is a problem. It might surface for those holding on to older equipment that doesn't use A/V jacks for displaying a picture...
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


That's true, Doug.

The Jerrold JRX-3 and JSX-3 (and their "DIC" descrambler counterparts) do not have a consumer-grade RF output modulator. The only possibility would be if there is a tunable output modulator terminal somewhere in the units similar to the 36 tunable terminals that were incorporated into the circuit boards on those converters.

That being said, you are also correct that it is likely a moot point given the fact that while most of these converter boxes still function, practically every cable TV system has abandoned analog signals thus rendering these units obsolete.

I concur that for the overwhelming majority of people, the output to channel 3/channel 4 issue is no longer relevant. But for those who still rely on devices such as VCRs and Video Game consoles and, for whatever reasons, do not connect via A/V composite, bringing this matter to their attention may prove helpful.


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> What I also find interesting is that while receiving WJLP via an indoor antenna has proven very difficult for just about every viewer who has tried thus far, apparently the mere minimal presence of its signal is enough to create noticeably steady graininess for closed-ended private setups, such as with the equipment I referenced earlier.


Which just goes to show that the problem with low-VHF isn't signal strength, but interference issues. Tuners can't make sense of the strong signal because of so much noise at low-VHF even though there might be plenty of signal there.

- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

Bounce is now available on WXTV 41-3


----------



## veedon

Trip in VA said:


> Which just goes to show that the problem with low-VHF isn't signal strength, but interference issues. Tuners can't make sense of the strong signal because of so much noise at low-VHF even though there might be plenty of signal there.
> 
> - Trip


So, is that more of an issue now, with digital broadcasting, than in the days of analog broadcasts?
Going forward, could manufacturers of machinery and electronics do something to reduce the likelihood of RF interference?


----------



## dstoffa

veedon said:


> So, is that more of an issue now, with digital broadcasting, than in the days of analog broadcasts?
> Going forward, could manufacturers of machinery and electronics do something to reduce the likelihood of RF interference?


I think it's more of an issue with reflection / multi-path than interference with other electronics.

In the analog days, this interference showed up as ghosting, but you would still see a picture, becauser the tuner had no logic -- it just displayed what it received, snow, ghost, herringbone, etc.. Now, you won't get a picture because the tuner cannot discern what is noise and what is signal, and therefore it cannot compose the picture at all.

Digital is all or nothing. Analog was "whatever I can get..."


Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## dave42

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right forum for my question. We just got an apt on e43 st in Manhattan. That puts us about 6 blocks east and 9 blocks north of ESB, where it seems like most of the signals come from. We are only on the 3rd fl and there are talker buildings all around. We can only use an indoor antenna. From our roof, you can see the top if the ESB antenna, but we are 10 stories down. I would love to get rid of our cable. Would an amplified indoor antenna work for us in our situation? I went to tvfool, and it seems like there are lots of available channels that are listed as "line of sight". Not sure if that means we have to actually have view of ESB antenna. Thanks


----------



## nyctveng

dave42 said:


> Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right forum for my question. We just got an apt on e43 st in Manhattan. That puts us about 6 blocks east and 9 blocks north of ESB, where it seems like most of the signals come from. We are only on the 3rd fl and there are talker buildings all around. We can only use an indoor antenna. From our roof, you can see the top if the ESB antenna, but we are 10 stories down. I would love to get rid of our cable. Would an amplified indoor antenna work for us in our situation? I went to tvfool, and it seems like there are lots of available channels that are listed as "line of sight". Not sure if that means we have to actually have view of ESB antenna. Thanks


Have you tried a non amplified indoor antenna yet? I've hooked up rabbit ears from 99 cent stores to friends and family within a mile radius of ESB with no line of sight or even close to a window with good results. Results varied from home to home but most major networks came in. WABC being on VHF was a problem on some but most others came in fine. Good luck.


----------



## dave42

I was hoping to pull in HD channels. Is there any specific brand that would work best in my situation? We have a south facing window that faces a park with tall trees as well as east facing window that faces a wing of our building.


----------



## Aero 1

dave42 said:


> I was hoping to pull in HD channels. Is there any specific brand that would work best in my situation? We have a south facing window that faces a park with tall trees as well as east facing window that faces a wing of our building.


Rabbit ears will pull in "HD" channels. Rabbit ears will also pull in digital channels, which is what everything is now. at your location, you can probably get away with a paper clip but try rabbit ears with a loop, that should be best. You do not need an amp.


----------



## uhfyagi

dave42 said:


> I was hoping to pull in HD channels. Is there any specific brand that would work best in my situation? We have a south facing window that faces a park with tall trees as well as east facing window that faces a wing of our building.


I would borrow a pair of rabbit ears or indoor antenna from someone you know, if it works well then you pull the trigger. that being said, been so close to the ESB is not good. you're more prone to lot more interference, specially from FM stations it can be quite challenging. good luck. please keep us up to date.☺


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


Trip in VA said:


> Which just goes to show that the problem with low-VHF isn't signal strength, but interference issues. Tuners can't make sense of the strong signal because of so much noise at low-VHF even though there might be plenty of signal there.
> 
> - Trip


Given this technical fact, would it be fair to say then that the VHF-Lo band is the least suitable and potentially the least reliable electromagnetic real estate for television broadcasting in our present ATSC era, particularly for viewers who rely exclusively on OTA signals for viewing television?


----------



## uhfyagi

yes giocomo, but keep in mind that low vhf is less desireable than other frequencies. but there are steps to take to minimize the interference too many to post here. from real world experience channel 2 (54-60 mhz) is more prone to man made interference than any other channel on the low band.


----------



## LenL

Speaking of low vhf and High.


I live in North Jersey. Why aren't VHF bands 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10 and 12 in use if VHF is so great? The only solid VHF TV we have is 7, 8, 11 and 13. Some of us get 3. I would think high VHF especially (9, 10, 12) would be very desirable!


----------



## dstoffa

LenL said:


> Speaking of low vhf and High.
> 
> 
> I live in North Jersey. Why aren't VHF bands 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10 and 12 in use if VHF is so great? The only solid VHF TV we have is 7, 8, 11 and 13. Some of us get 3. I would think high VHF especially (9, 10, 12) would be very desirable!


I am not sure what requirements still exist which prohibit full power adjacents from operating... I believe that takes 9, 10, and 12 off the table in order to protect WPIX and WNET.


----------



## veedon

There's an "allocation map" tool at rabbitears.info .

It shows that there is a full-power station in New Haven , CT operating on RF 10 and a full-power station in Bethlehem, PA operating on RF 9.

Maybe those stations are why RF 9 and 10 are not allocated to any full-power stations in the NYC DMA.


----------



## Aero 1

Justice Network launches in the next two weeks, perhaps earlier according to the Justice Network facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/JusticeNet..._id=358563524338266&offset=0&total_comments=2



> Justice Network Hi Billy, we expect the official launch in NYC within the next two weeks, hopefully on the sooner side, as our affiliate puts the final technical touches on launching there.


going by whats being shown now, it seems to me that WJLP will not screw with the aspect ration on this sub.


----------



## uhfyagi

I hope the programming is legit, is not anything like these court shows like divorce court or family court everyone knows is only entertainment like the wwe. give us real drama not made up crap.


----------



## Mr Tony

uhfyagi said:


> I hope the programming is legit, is not anything like these court shows like divorce court or family court everyone knows is only entertainment like the wwe. give us real drama not made up crap.


its older episodes of stuff that was on TruTV and NatiGeo (like AK State Troopers)
http://www.justicenetworktv.com/show-titles/


----------



## uhfyagi

unclehonkey said:


> its older episodes of stuff that was on TruTV and NatiGeo (like AK State Troopers)
> http://www.justicenetworktv.com/show-titles/


thanks for headsup I wont watch it now. seems like the pq and bitrate for this sub is gonna be subpar


----------



## NYC10033

*9-3 Bounce TV?*

I receive 9-1 and 9-2 but no longer receive 9-3 Bounce TV.

Is 9-3 still available?


----------



## Aero 1

NYC10033 said:


> I receive 9-1 and 9-2 but no longer receive 9-3 Bounce TV.
> 
> Is 9-3 still available?


----------



## NYC10033

Aero 1 said:


>


Why did Bounce TV move?


----------



## Mr Tony

NYC10033 said:


> Why did Bounce TV move?


2 reasons
-The Univison O&O stations have an agreement to carry Bounce so when the Fox agreement ran out it moved
-the new station Buzzzr is going in that place on 9-3 (starts 5/31)


----------



## Beruda

I've not been able to get Escape or Get TV. Information about what's on displays but a message at the bottom says the signal cannot be decoded. I don't know if it's weather related or not. On the other hand I'm now able to get THIS and Antenna TV which I couldn't for about 3 months.


----------



## uhfyagi

Can someone clarify what likes are, I have 4 liked. I been posting for 6 months, the previous poster has 10 liked he has posted only twice? Who decides these liked moderator? Can you trade your liked for a want or need


----------



## Nick in NY

Beruda said:


> I've not been able to get Escape or Get TV. Information about what's on displays but a message at the bottom says the signal cannot be decoded. I don't know if it's weather related or not. On the other hand I'm now able to get THIS and Antenna TV which I couldn't for about 3 months.


I suddenly lost Escape and GetTV yesterday exactly as you've described. Haven't had a problem with Antenna TV. Haven't noticed any problem with THIS either (not near my set at the moment to check).


----------



## LenL

*Likes*



uhfyagi said:


> Can someone clarify what likes are, I have 4 liked. I been posting for 6 months, the previous poster has 10 liked he has posted only twice? Who decides these liked moderator? Can you trade your liked for a want or need



when someone reads your posts and agrees with it, or appreciates it, or otherwise likes what you post and wants to give you immediate feedback they indicate they "like" it by clicking on the "like button. That's all it is.


----------



## NYC10033

I wish Decades or Grit TV would broadcast "The Wild Wild West".


----------



## uhfyagi

NYC10033 said:


> I wish Decades or Grit TV would broadcast "The Wild Wild West".


Heroes Icons network has the rights to show it until they renew their lease. too bad you don't receive wfmz tv from Allentown


----------



## Beruda

Well Escape and GetTV are back. Now I also have Justice Channel and MeTV.


----------



## uhfyagi

LenL said:


> when someone reads your posts and agrees with it, or appreciates it, or otherwise likes what you post and wants to give you immediate feedback they indicate they "like" it by clicking on the "like button. That's all it is.


Thank you Len for quick reply, Are you gettin metv? there is very little programming that is worth watching on that network. Antenna Tv is better. looking forward to getting gameshow network sometime in April remember Beat the clock on wpix Gene Rayburn was the host? good memories


----------



## LenL

No I don't receive that station. Even if I did I probably would not watch it. I am done with those old shows. I lived through them and don't need to relive them. There is so much new TV to watch that I feel is better made and better to watch on the new TVs. Besides I can go to my local library and take out just about anything on DVD and watch the old stuff commercial free if I really wanted to.


----------



## uhfyagi

true, you can only watch so much of the old shows the new shows have a larger budget to produce better or realisticly accurate take that show on fox the other day "last man on earth" the effects where off the wall. truely better to watch on large led tv. let me know if you ever want to sell your aerials I want that 8 bay uhf 😃


----------



## LenL

Since I had a house fire last April, I no longer have the luxury of antennas on my roof. So I have to be creative and use all the antennas I have to pull in reception that is decent. That 8 Bay CM4228 is sitting 3 feet or so off the ground and feeding 2 TVs and a DVR+! Not quite as good as my primary antennas (separate VHF and UHF) that are about 15 feet off the ground but I get 2.1 and 5.1 really well.


----------



## uhfyagi

*Dvr*



LenL said:


> Since I had a house fire last April, I no longer have the luxury of antennas on my roof. So I have to be creative and use all the antennas I have to pull in reception that is decent. That 8 Bay CM4228 is sitting 3 feet or so off the ground and feeding 2 TVs and a DVR+! Not quite as good as my primary antennas (separate VHF and UHF) that are about 15 feet off the ground but I get 2.1 and 5.1 really well.


Speaking of Dvr, I bought a Hd Tuner/ Dvr recently is for Hd Ready TV set, I view 3500stbii for $35 works decent it has USB port to plug in a hard drive it has good user reviews. I been recording some tv shows from Decades, remote is a bit quirky but for that cheap price.
When it warms up some I put up 91xg on 10 ft mast and rotor to receive more stations. You know now that your antennas are reachable, you can try to get Allentown station I believe there is retro tv there. jk


----------



## LenL

uhfyagi said:


> Speaking of Dvr, I bought a Hd Tuner/ Dvr recently is for Hd Ready TV set, I view 3500stbii for $35 works decent it has USB port to plug in a hard drive it has good user reviews. I been recording some tv shows from Decades, remote is a bit quirky but for that cheap price.
> When it warms up some I put up 91xg on 10 ft mast and rotor to receive more stations. You know now that your antennas are reachable, you can try to get Allentown station I believe there is retro tv there. jk



My antenna mast almost touches the ground now as it is about 20 foot long and the actual antennas are a tad higher than my second floor window. No given my antennas are not as high, and I am on the wrong side of a hill aiming for Allentown is not really an option. Allentown is twice as far as the ESB and I am lucky to get what I get from the ESB.


----------



## nyctveng

I"m hearing WJLP will be moving to virtual channel 33 in the coming weeks


----------



## Trip in VA

Should be Monday at noon.

- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

https://www.facebook.com/metv3/posts/1618469368364947



> Attention viewers – The FCC has once again ordered us to move our broadcast from channel 3 to channel 33 on an interim basis effective Monday 3/16/2015. This change will ONLY affect those viewers who watch us over-the-air via digital antenna.
> Cable and satellite viewers WILL NOT be affected.
> Antenna viewers will have to re-scan their TV channels in order to continue watching Me-TV on channel 33.1 and Justice Network on 33.2.
> We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for watching.


----------



## uhfyagi

Wtf they don't leave wjpl alone. they are on channel 3 that's it. cos wjpl pockets are not deep as cbs.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

nyctveng said:


> I"m hearing WJLP will be moving to virtual channel 33 in the coming weeks


Just once, could someone... _anyone_... prove at least one instance... _ONE_... in which an OTA viewer of either KYW-TV or WFSB has experienced destructive interference and/or disruption to their ability to view either respective channel due to the on-air presence of WJLP????

The question is fair seeing as this is the chief complaint plaintiffs have argued as to why WJLP should surrender virtual 3-##.



uhfyagi said:


> Wtf they don't leave wjpl alone. they are on channel 3 that's it. cos wjpl pockets are not deep as cbs.


There is an individual who owns and operates an internet media message forum who, from time to time, when queried as to why broadcast licensees and mega corporate entities oftentimes make short-sighted decisions as to programming and staffing oftentimes responds with the following phrase: "Follow the money."


----------



## retrosonic

I found out yesterday about WJPL / MeTV moving to 33.1 during "Hogans Heroes".

So, I tuned 33.1 to see what was there and my Curve antenna couldnt pull anything in. I'm wondering if I'm going to be able to get MeTV at all come Monday.


----------



## updateanchor

WJLP is not on 33.1 yet. There is nothing to pull in. Check on Monday.


----------



## uhfyagi

Let me get this straight metv is moving to 33.1. But they're still on real ch3. Is the virtual ch that is moving to 33 ? . Ps. Some stb might have issues tuning in metv.


----------



## retrosonic

Thanks. I wasnt sure if there was anything on there now to test the signal strength.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey uhfyagi,


uhfyagi said:


> Let me get this straight metv is moving to 33.1. But they're still on real ch3. Is the virtual ch that is moving to 33 ? . Ps. Some stb might have issues tuning in metv.


That's correct. This has been discussed here extensively and if you want to read through all the debate/discussion, it begins around page 590.

Honestly, in a few years this may not even make any difference whatsoever. PMCM TV has very valuable RF spectrum regardless of its band location which would realize tens of millions of dollars if/when (but most likely "when") they sell it.

The spectrum auction is coming up soon. The multi-billion dollar Fox Broadcasting Company is the licensee of both WNYW and WWOR-TV, and any third-grader can figure out that the corporation is NOT holding either or both. In the most likely scenario to play out, Fox cashes out RF 38 and RF 44 for over $150 million a piece. Fox then approaches PMCM TV with an offer to buy RF 3 for $100 million (PMCM TV bought RF 3 in Ely, Nevada for just over $1 million) PMCM TV then has the tough choice of whether to continue providing the New York City market with programming that is over fifty years old, or take $100 million to cash out RF 3. After deliberating for a full ten seconds, PMCM TV elects to accept Fox's $100 million offer.

Who wins? The voluntary assignment of all the licenses is approved YESTERDAY by the overjoyed FCC, PMCM TV nets $99 million (less expenses) in profit, Fox nets $225 million (less expenses) in profit, the FCC sells more spectrum to the wireless phone corporation, and the entire virtual channel number debate for RF 3 at Middletown Township (ultimately relocated to New York, NY.) is ended because Fox shall use virtual channels 5-1 and 9-1 on RF 3.


----------



## Trip in VA

If you get it now, you will continue to get it after, but you may or may not need to rescan. If you do not get it now, this change will do nothing to help that.

- Trip


----------



## unsmiley

So I won't have to go through all those contortions I did to get channel 3.11 with my rabbit ears to pull in channel 33.1?


----------



## dstoffa

unsmiley said:


> So I won't have to go through all those contortions I did to get channel 3.11 with my rabbit ears to pull in channel 33.1?


The broadcast frequency of WJLP (~60 MHz) is not changing. That would require them a new transmitter, or one with major antenna / equipment modifications. So, if you needed to extend your rabbit ears to their full length and place them in front of a window facing the towers in order to receive this station before, you will need to continue.

Your STB or TV Tuner MIGHT begin seeing the channel as virtual 33.1 and 33.2 automatically when they make the switch. This is not guaranteed, which is why the station is asking its viewers to rescan.

The only good thing about this change is that I will no longer need to use a 4 digit custom channel mapping for my ReplayTVs to my CM-7000 STBs...

Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## LenL

unsmiley said:


> So I won't have to go through all those contortions I did to get channel 3.11 with my rabbit ears to pull in channel 33.1?



They are still broadcasting on LOW VHF 3. Which sucks. Your TV tuner will see the station as 33.1 which is in the UHF range. Just like PBS NJ is broadcasting middle VHF 8.1 but virtual 58.1 in NJ. My tuner will see it as station 58.1. WABC 7 is real 7.1 and virtual 7.1. PIX is real 11.1 and virtual 11.1. WNET is virtual 13.1 and real 13.1.


There are many stations where the real channel number and virtual are the same and many where they are different. It is kind of silly why this was all put in place and not corrected as part of the digital transition. It is the same stupid reasoning that is used to change the clocks twice a year.


----------



## dstoffa

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Just once, could someone... _anyone_... prove at least one instance... _ONE_... in which an OTA viewer of either KYW-TV or WFSB has experienced destructive interference and/or disruption to their ability to view either respective channel due to the on-air presence of WJLP????
> 
> The question is fair seeing as this is the chief complaint plaintiffs have argued as to why WJLP should surrender virtual 3-##.


It would have been nice if the rules were written, during the digital transition / assignment phase, that a station in-market or in an adjacent market would get rights to set their virtual channel to their real channel number over those stations who elected to transition their broadcast to some other frequency. So, if KYW never left RF 3, that is the only way they keep their claim on Virtual 3 over someone in an adjacent market who is now broadcasting on RF 3...


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

WJLP Middletown Township is now broadcasting using virtual channel 33.

No rescan was necessary. And for _most_ tuners, a rescan will not be necessary.



dstoffa said:


> The broadcast frequency of WJLP (~60 MHz) is not changing. That would require them a new transmitter, or one with major antenna / equipment modifications. So, if you needed to extend your rabbit ears to their full length and place them in front of a window facing the towers in order to receive this station before, you will need to continue.
> 
> Your STB or TV Tuner MIGHT begin seeing the channel as virtual 33.1 and 33.2 automatically when they make the switch. This is not guaranteed, which is why the station is asking its viewers to rescan.
> 
> The only good thing about this change is that I will no longer need to use a 4 digit custom channel mapping for my ReplayTVs to my CM-7000 STBs...
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


Thank you for sharing that good advice and information, Doug.


----------



## unsmiley

dstoffa said:


> The broadcast frequency of WJLP (~60 MHz) is not changing. That would require them a new transmitter, or one with major antenna / equipment modifications. So, if you needed to extend your rabbit ears to their full length and place them in front of a window facing the towers in order to receive this station before, you will need to continue.
> 
> Your STB or TV Tuner MIGHT begin seeing the channel as virtual 33.1 and 33.2 automatically when they make the switch. This is not guaranteed, which is why the station is asking its viewers to rescan.
> 
> The only good thing about this change is that I will no longer need to use a 4 digit custom channel mapping for my ReplayTVs to my CM-7000 STBs...
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


Well I now cannot get WJLP on my old TV with set top box (I was getting it with this set top box before at 3.11). I will attempt to rescan and see if that does anything. My other modern LCD TV tuned the channel switch on its own (no rescan necessary) and receives WJLP, no problem.


----------



## unsmiley

Update: Upon rescan of my set top box, I pull in 33.1 (labeled MeTV) as clearly as before . There is still an empty channel at 3.11 (labeled WJLP) for some reason. 

I also noted that rescanning corrected my many recent EPG errors (like "No Information" on WJLP, mixed up subchannel guide info on the Channel 11's, etc.) 

I still wish I could get Retro TV.


----------



## veedon

WJLP's change from virtual channel 3 to virtual channel 33 (while remaining on real channel RF 3, VHF-Lo) may have very little impact on OTA viewers (other than the inconvenience of causing some remote controls to get "confused"), but it could have significant adverse impacts on WJLP's marketing strategy.

If the cable companies decide to put WJLP into a slot that is far removed from the other broadcast channels, such as WCBS (virtual 2) and WNBC (virtual 4), that could cause cable TV viewers to run across WJLP less frequently while channel surfing. It would also send the message that WJLP is being deemed unworthy of a plum slot.

But, cable TV may go down the drain soon anyway. Who has money to be paying the high prices the cable companies want nowadays?


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> ...
> 
> The spectrum auction is coming up soon. The multi-billion dollar Fox Broadcasting Company is the licensee of both WNYW and WWOR-TV, and any third-grader can figure out that the corporation is NOT holding either or both. In the most likely scenario to play out, Fox cashes out RF 38 and RF 44 for over $150 million a piece. Fox then approaches PMCM TV with an offer to buy RF 3 for $100 million ... Fox shall use virtual channels 5-1 and 9-1 on RF 3.


I don't think a Big Four network would even want RF3.
Besides, the spectrum auction might never take place. Congress has tried to paint it as a deficit reduction measure, but nobody believes that Congress cares about that.


----------



## rothe

Is anybody else having trouble receiving WNET/13 this afternoon? I'm down about 14db in signal strength for this station only, just as of this afternoon, as measured by a spectrum analyzer. All of my other stations are as strong as they usually are, and I've confirmed that my antenna hasn't budged. Granted, I'm 37 miles out from the ESB, but I can't find any local cause for the signal loss. Anybody?


----------



## uhfyagi

metv being moved down the dial really sucks. I use to switch channels from metv to decades by going up or down a channel on the remote, now I gotta plugin 33.1 to receive them. is really Bs what the fcc is forcing metv to change frequencies to accomodate cbs,nbc. 😢


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> metv being moved down the dial really sucks. I use to switch channels from metv to decades by going up or down a channel on the remote, now I gotta plugin 33.1 to receive them. is really Bs what the fcc is forcing metv to change frequencies to accomodate cbs,nbc. í ½í¸¢


The frequency has not changed at all. It's still RF3.
And WNBC did not complain about WJLP's desire to use virtual channel number 3, did they?
It was KYW out of Philly and WFSB in Connecticut that complained.

It's not a matter of true interference.
It is a matter of Channel 3 being a better branding than Channel 33.

It's all about marketing and also about an old law that makes no sense in the modern era.
But the spirit of that old law was to make sure that OTA viewers were well served, not to protect the convenience of cable TV viewers.

WJLP won the court case and used that old law to move its license from Nevada to NYC, but the FCC has been saying that it wants to maintain the agency's control over virtual channel designations, even though the FCC lost the court case regarding the license move.

The final decision may be made by the court system.


----------



## ALP

rothe said:


> Is anybody else having trouble receiving WNET/13 this afternoon? I'm down about 14db in signal strength for this station only, just as of this afternoon, as measured by a spectrum analyzer. All of my other stations are as strong as they usually are, and I've confirmed that my antenna hasn't budged. Granted, I'm 37 miles out from the ESB, but I can't find any local cause for the signal loss. Anybody?


I just checked my signal strength on 13.1 and I would say it is down some, can't say by how much in dB's. Still good reception but it is down.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> I don't think a Big Four network would even want RF3.
> Besides, the spectrum auction might never take place. Congress has tried to paint it as a deficit reduction measure, but nobody believes that Congress cares about that.


A full-power RF 3 television broadcast license gives the station owners the right to elect must-carry or retransmission consent, either of which guarantee their station access to the subscribers of all market-area pay-TV providers. The OTA signal quality is only meaningful to the minority of viewers in the NYC market who rely solely on that method by which to view television. As to the catv/satellite/telco MSTV providers, if the RF 3 signal proves too challenging, the licensee - at their own expense - must provide the MSTV provider the necessary equipment by which a reliable signal can be obtained.

Most people are automatically in favor of anything they _believe_ will increase revenue to the federal government because they _believe_ any and all revenues realized will automatically translate into lower taxes. Of course, what most people _believe_ to be true oftentimes turns out to be completely false because most people do not wish to take the time or use the requisite brain-power to study the facts and figures, and judge for themselves whether they are being sold a bill of goods. It is easy (and quite frankly more fun) to look at choreographed charts and literature that shows billions of dollars in profits and jump at the once in a lifetime opportunity for easy money while blissfully ignoring the debit side of the equation.

All I can say is that when the spectrum auction takes place, hopefully those station owners who do jump on-board will realize a monetary sum close to the expectations dangled by Congress and the FCC. It would sure suck to be them to be going for gold and only winding up with a slightly used pot.



uhfyagi said:


> metv being moved down the dial really sucks. I use to switch channels from metv to decades by going up or down a channel on the remote, now I gotta plugin 33.1 to receive them. is really Bs what the fcc is forcing metv to change frequencies to accomodate cbs,nbc. 😢





veedon said:


> The frequency has not changed at all. It's still RF3.
> And WNBC did not complain about WJLP's desire to use virtual channel number 3, did they?
> It was KYW out of Philly and WFSB in Connecticut that complained.
> 
> It's not a matter of true interference.
> It is a matter of Channel 3 being a better branding than Channel 33.
> 
> It's all about marketing and also about an old law that makes no sense in the modern era.
> But the spirit of that old law was to make sure that OTA viewers were well served, not to protect the convenience of cable TV viewers.
> 
> WJLP won the court case and used that old law to move its license from Nevada to NYC, but the FCC has been saying that it wants to maintain the agency's control over virtual channel designations, even though the FCC lost the court case regarding the license move.
> 
> The final decision may be made by the court system.


uhfyagi's experience proves the inequity of forcing WJLP to remap to 33. While those of us on this forum have the benefit of advanced technical knowledge to understand what has happened, most average viewers do not understand. And for them, it would now appear that WJLP is broadcasting over UHF. Far segregated from its VHF-virtual counterparts, viewers (especially those in New Jersey) are being deprived of the opportunity to casually change channels from 2 to 3 to 4, or from 5 to 4 to 3 to 2. Many viewers may feel that, once again, a New Jersey-centric television station has been pushed out, banished to the backwoods of the UHF band on a channel no one even knew existed. Citizens who take pride in their Garden State may even believe that the big city to the East has, once again, unfairly exerted its muscle to push one of the few independent media voices in New Jersey off the front page and into the middle of the lifestyle section - in the Wednesday edition.

So for all intents and purposes, the spirit of the tax law is likely being defeated by this, possibly temporary, move to 33-#. If most viewers cannot associate WJLP as being a VHF television station, it's technical presence on that band may not adequately serve those same viewers. And the most important thing to keep in mind here is that the tax law did not contemplate any technical changes to the broadcasting standard, nor was the tax law ever modified. Therefore, all legal arguments will have to be argued on the language of the law as it currently stands.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> uhfyagi's experience proves the inequity of forcing WJLP to remap to 33. While those of us on this forum have the benefit of advanced technical knowledge to understand what has happened, most average viewers do not understand. And for them, it would now appear that WJLP is broadcasting over UHF. Far segregated from its VHF-virtual counterparts, viewers (especially those in New Jersey) are being deprived of the opportunity to casually change channels from 2 to 3 to 4, or from 5 to 4 to 3 to 2. Many viewers may feel that, once again, a New Jersey-centric television station has been pushed out, banished to the backwoods of the UHF ....
> 
> So for all intents and purposes, the spirit of the tax law is likely being defeated by this, possibly temporary, move to 33-#.


Nah. It wasn't any kind of tax law that enabled WJLP to set up shop in NJ on RF3.
It was ancient law from back when VHF actually was superior to UHF for OTA transmissions.
WJLP was very clever. It saw an opportunity to use an outmoded law to its own advantage, and there is no shame in that. But if it cannot get the right to use Channel 3 as its virtual channel number, it may not be able to get the plum slot on the cable lineups.

As for New Jersey feeling slighted, well, NJ is used to being overshadowed by NYC and Philly when it comes to media coverage. But I really don't think many cable viewers even know the difference between UHF and VHF anymore. In many markets, local channels have been given cable slots that differed from their OTA channel number, even in the analog days.

I don't think that a high channel number carries the kind of stigma that it once did.
Years ago, UHF channels with high channel numbers (such as 40 and higher) were often low-budget operations with cheesy programming. But that is no longer the case.

I'll tell you when UHF was really annoying, and that was back when there was no remote control and if you wanted to change from channel 14 to channel 60, you had to turn the knob and make 46 clicks.


----------



## speedlaw

What is more amazing is the FCC "repacking". First, get everyone OFF VHF and VHF low...mostly.
Then, repopulate VHF Low, which supposedly no one wanted.

Then, sell off the upper/upper UHF and force all the stations to re-jigger yet again the channels, replace transmitters/antennas, etc.

It is almost like they are trying to lose the OTA viewer. Some areas will end up with two crappy low bitrate feeds on one station.

For the record, I get RF 3 pretty well, and if conditions are good, the 3000 watt "translator" on RF 2, but cannot always lock that one....

The objectors to channel 3 really had no local reasoning....I think that there were a few "board meetings" with other stations for the attempt to "poach" the prime real estate at the bottom of the dial.

WNET and ABC 7 had the right ideas...stay put.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

veedon said:


> Nah. It wasn't any kind of tax law that enabled WJLP to set up shop in NJ on RF3.
> It was ancient law from back when VHF actually was superior to UHF for OTA transmissions.
> WJLP was very clever. It saw an opportunity to use an outmoded law to its own advantage, and there is no shame in that. But if it cannot get the right to use Channel 3 as its virtual channel number, it may not be able to get the plum slot on the cable lineups.
> 
> As for New Jersey feeling slighted, well, NJ is used to being overshadowed by NYC and Philly when it comes to media coverage. But I really don't think many cable viewers even know the difference between UHF and VHF anymore. In many markets, local channels have been given cable slots that differed from their OTA channel number, even in the analog days.
> 
> I don't think that a high channel number carries the kind of stigma that it once did.
> Years ago, UHF channels with high channel numbers (such as 40 and higher) were often low-budget operations with cheesy programming. But that is no longer the case.
> 
> I'll tell you when UHF was really annoying, and that was back when there was no remote control and if you wanted to change from channel 14 to channel 60, you had to turn the knob and make 46 clicks.


The law mandating at least one VHF television station to each state is definitely part of a tax law, look it up.

It is absolutely correct that securing the channel 3 allocation on MSTV providers is significantly more advantageous than being carried on some random number in the double, triple, or even four digit channel ranges. If WJLP remains permanently on virtual 33-1, it is unclear as to whether the systems already carrying the station on channel 3 will bump the channel to another location or keep it on channel 3. I think going forward, PMCM TV will certainly have a fight to get channel 3 carriage on any system they are not presently carried on.

Just because someone is used to getting dirk kicked in their face doesn't mean that it feels better over time. You are correct that many people are likely unaware of the differences between VHF and UHF, especially those who grew up in cable TV households. Still, the law remains unchanged from when Congress passed it in the early 1980s.

I happen to think that many of those upper UHF low-budget channels were some of the best incarnations of independent local programming. It afforded access to locals and local businesses where such access was prohibitive by the major network stations. Those opportunities that existed up until the mid 1980s have all but been eliminated in major markets.

But as far as UHF tuners go, I always preferred those which clicked as opposed to those which merely fine tuned. The click tuners were less prone to drifting and often locked in the frequencies better, at least from my experiences.



speedlaw said:


> What is more amazing is the FCC "repacking". First, get everyone OFF VHF and VHF low...mostly.
> Then, repopulate VHF Low, which supposedly no one wanted.
> 
> Then, sell off the upper/upper UHF and force all the stations to re-jigger yet again the channels, replace transmitters/antennas, etc.
> 
> It is almost like they are trying to lose the OTA viewer. Some areas will end up with two crappy low bitrate feeds on one station.
> 
> For the record, I get RF 3 pretty well, and if conditions are good, the 3000 watt "translator" on RF 2, but cannot always lock that one....
> 
> The objectors to channel 3 really had no local reasoning....I think that there were a few "board meetings" with other stations for the attempt to "poach" the prime real estate at the bottom of the dial.
> 
> WNET and ABC 7 had the right ideas...stay put.


Congress and the FCC see the bigger money right now is vested with the cellular providers. They view television broadcasters as squatters on land that they perceive has a much higher monetary value. They want the current occupants off that land. To effectuate this, they are proposing to buy-out the occupants at fair market value and then auction the land to the cellular providers. Essentially, this is electromagnetic eminent domain.

Some of the occupants (whether by strategic ploy or sheer ignorance) are being bedazzled at promises of hundreds of millions of dollars for certain parcels they presently occupy.

From a financial perspective, the OTA viewer deserves the least consideration from the perspectives of broadcasters, the Congress, or the FCC. No individual or group of individuals will likely come to the table with an offer of $300 million to preserve their access to free television. But to placate those lowly grumblers, Congress and the FCC will likely mandate that every cable company provide one free year of cable converter rental, after which the rent will be $7.00 or more per month, plus taxes.

Ultimately, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think I am close to accurate when I suggest that FOX has their marks and dollars set on RF 3 which may explain why PMCM TV seems to be withdrawing from their virtual channel number fight.

ION Media (WPXN-TV) certainly had no standing to object to PMCM TV as the FCC deals with broadcast issues and not cable television matters. I think they were ultimately recruited by Meredith (WFSB), who also recruited CBS (KYW-TV) because Meredith wanted WJLP off 3-10. Again, not one instance of interference to viewers has been proven.

As to channel 2, that is low-power WKOB-LD which broadcasts at 300 watts, not 3,000 watts. That station has a CP to relocate to UHF channel 42 in West Orange, NJ.


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> The law mandating at least one VHF television station to each state is definitely part of a tax law, look it up.


Um, no, it's section 331 of the Communications Act of 1934. 

http://transition.fcc.gov/Reports/1934new.pdf

I suppose you can argue there are taxes in the Communications Act, but I doubt most people would call it a "tax law."

- Trip


----------



## veedon

Trip and Giacomo may both be right.
The provision regarding each state having at least one VHF allocation is now part of the Communications Act of 1934.
But it became part of the act as a result of congressional action in 1982, and that provision, giving preferential treatment to a reallocation that would remedy the situation if a state lacked a VHF station, was part of a great big piece of tax legislation in 1982.

That's how you get things done in Congress. You put your provisions into a giant bill that has to pass.
And if the main purpose of the bill is to deal with taxation, that gives your little unrelated provisions an even better chance of surviving.

When the federal court ruled in favor of KVNV's "move" to New Jersey, the court ruling reviewed the history of the provision.

What is interesting, though, is that the ruling focused on the question of true interference between TV signals.
It did not mention the idea of "virtual interference" at all.

The FCC should have brought up the virtual interference issue back when the case was being argued. If it had done so, the court might have agreed that the proposed move was not "technically feasible" and might have prevented the move.

I think it's a bit amusing that the reason that the provision was passed into law back in 1982 had something to do with some sort of trouble that WOR Channel 9 had gotten into, and the provision was a way for New Jersey to be able to quickly get a VHF station by giving WOR a kind of getaway car. I'm not sure what the whole story was, but I read that WOR would never have moved if it hadn't been due to some special circumstances.

http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/9C75C436CD25514E85257AD40055B6CD/$file/11-1330-1410082.pdf


----------



## dstoffa

veedon said:


> Trip and Giacomo may both be right.
> The provision regarding each state having at least one VHF allocation is now part of the Communications Act of 1934.
> But it became part of the act as a result of congressional action in 1982, and that provision, giving preferential treatment to a reallocation that would remedy the situation if a state lacked a VHF station, was part of a great big piece of tax legislation in 1982.
> 
> I think it's a bit amusing that the reason that the provision was passed into law back in 1982 had something to do with some sort of trouble that WOR Channel 9 had gotten into, and the provision was a way for New Jersey to be able to quickly get a VHF station by giving WOR a kind of getaway car. I'm not sure what the whole story was, but I read that WOR would never have moved if it hadn't been due to some special circumstances.


RKO General was the owner of WOR-TV, and were ready to be forced out, but Senator Bill Bradley gave them a reprieve by passing a law which stated that the license of any VHF television station would automatically be renewed if it moved to a state which didn't have one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RKO_General


----------



## veedon

dstoffa said:


> RKO General was the owner of WOR-TV, and were ready to be forced out, but Senator Bill Bradley gave them a reprieve by passing a law which stated that the license of any VHF television station would automatically be renewed if it moved to a state which didn't have one.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RKO_General


Bill Bradley! He was on the Knicks back when they were a good team.
This year's Knicks aren't even worthy of a subchannel slot on an LPTV station, much less a cable TV deal.


----------



## Trip in VA

Not sure why, but all of a sudden the auto-scanner at my grandmother's house started working again, on its own, on Saturday.

http://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=10343612&tno=1

For those who missed it.

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> Not sure why, but all of a sudden the auto-scanner at my grandmother's house started working again, on its own, on Saturday.
> 
> http://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=10343612&tno=1
> 
> For those who missed it.
> 
> - Trip


trip you are at your granma's any chance you put up cm 4251 parabolic on the roof for a test run? luv to know how she does


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm not there. The computer I left at her house for some reason started working again a few days ago. 

And transporting my parabolic required a very large truck, which I don't own. It would also be overkill for the area.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

I could not follow all of this VHF and law discussion but we already have one state run VHF station IN NJ. So I don't see the law angle for VHF 3.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey LenL,


LenL said:


> I could not follow all of this VHF and law discussion but we already have one state run VHF station IN NJ. So I don't see the law angle for VHF 3.


Presumably you are referring to WNJB-TV New Brunswick which operates on RF 8.

That station, while owned by the New Jersey Public Broadcasting Authority, is now an affiliate of the NJTV network which is owned by Public Media NJ, a subsidiary of WNET Newark. That operator is an out-of-state non-commercial entity. So while the station's former network, New Jersey Network (NJN), was state-run, the present network (NJTV) is not.

And the key difference between WNJB-TV and WJLP is the license status. The law referenced here specifically mandates that each state be licensed at least one *commercial* VHF television station. WNJB-TV now and historically has only operated under a non-commercial license, so despite its operation on RF 8, the station does not satisfy the requirements of the 1982 law. WJLP, however, both now and historically and in both New Jersey and Nevada has operated under a commercial license.


----------



## veedon

I wonder if WACP (RF 4) in Atlantic City is happy with its virtual channel designation. 
According to the coverage maps, it has a humongous coverage area.


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> I'm not there. The computer I left at her house for some reason started working again a few days ago.
> 
> And transporting my parabolic required a very large truck, which I don't own. It would also be overkill for the area.
> 
> - Trip[/QUOTE
> 
> k


----------



## uhfyagi

uhfyagi said:


> Trip in VA said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not there. The computer I left at her house for some reason started working again a few days ago.
> 
> And transporting my parabolic required a very large truck, which I don't own. It would also be overkill for the area.
> 
> - Trip[/QUOTE
> 
> maybe she logs onto rabbit ears.info to check out your blog
Click to expand...


----------



## LenL

Can't believe us OTA viewers are shut out from viewing the NCAA final 4 games today!


----------



## dstoffa

LenL said:


> Can't believe us OTA viewers are shut out from viewing the NCAA final 4 games today!


OTA doesn't pay the sports contracts....


----------



## LenL

I would agree except CBS carried all the rounds including the upcoming championship game this Mon. night. CBS played reruns Sat. night and could have had these 2 live games on their schedule instead. So it does not make the economic sense you suggest.


----------



## AloEuro

TV is full of surprises, on Easter Sunday the mexican feed prime time was showing the new Paul Blart Mall cop, which had 130 mil. world release, while the english version is still in movie houses, 
Sorry for this, stand to correct myself, somebody told me that it was the old #1 not the new, again sorry


----------



## speedlaw

*Propagation is fun !*



LenL said:


> Speaking of low vhf and High.
> 
> 
> I live in North Jersey. Why aren't VHF bands 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10 and 12 in use if VHF is so great? The only solid VHF TV we have is 7, 8, 11 and 13. Some of us get 3. I would think high VHF especially (9, 10, 12) would be very desirable!


Back when the analog stations were still all in action, I would listen to the FM sound carriers of the NYC stations on my ham radio, an Icom 706. The radio was mounted in my car. I'd drive up and down 1200 foot hills in the Hudson Valley, and see what I could and could not catch as I went up and down the hills. You could see how some channels were good at one angle...others came in higher on the hill, but dropped at different heights. Much of the reception was done as "angle refraction".

VHF 2 and 3 were always a hard catch. Channel 4 and 5 were the best of lo vhf, and 7, 11 and 13 were usually clear. Going up and over hills and mountains, for some reason, 4 and 5 had the best ability to follow hills. Channel 6 in Albany always had the best distance from that location.

VHF is a bit better over mountains, but not much. UHF is useless unless you have "line of sight". 

(aside-using UHF, I can't get over a hill behind my house and talk to stations 7 miles away on the other side. Using ham radio on 80 meters (shortwaves) the radio waves don't even see the hill and I can talk 80 miles clearly. There is a reason cell providers will pay for the UHF TV frequencies in the high UHF tv band-they don't want any bending, or natural interference.)

Channels 2 and 3 are more HF. This isn't good for TV broadcast, as the signals can skip off the ionosphere, or bend in the troposphere, causing DX, or more likely, interference with the local signal. Fun for us geeks, but (I recall one night, I got every single channel, with Pennsy and CT stations making to my NY location). The VHF channels are less likely to do this, and as such, are less interfered with naturally, so more desirable.

I can see staying with RF 7-13 as they are mostly line of sight but without the extreme power needs of UHF broadcast. 4-5-6 need bigger antennas, but have best overall coverage. 2-3 are useless in 2015 for TV, but due to regulatory stupidity/loopholes, are still in use by low power.

I don't think when the analog transition took place, that anyone considered that Congress would balance the budget by selling the UHF TV spectrum. Now, the same stations that spent money to move to UHF are now being squeezed back to VHF. If they repopulated VHF high, it would make sense as they are good for TV, little interference from natural sources, and less power to cover the broadcast area. No one else wants VHF high, the wavelengths are too long for mobile phone antennas but it works well for TV broadcast.

So, we will probably end up with VHF high being repopulated by the stations leaving UHF to sell the frequencies to cell phone companies. VHF low will be a odd play by stations using low power translators or like WLJP, looking to get a favorable channel position on cable systems.

No, it doesn't make sense.


----------



## uhfyagi

Wrong most of vhf low band including channel 4 or 5 is in use already by low power stations on the nyc area. Take a look at trip site rabbit ears.info for yourself


----------



## speedlaw

uhfyagi said:


> Wrong most of vhf low band including channel 4 or 5 is in use already by low power stations on the nyc area. Take a look at trip site rabbit ears.info for yourself


The 300 watt transmitter on 4, like the 300 watts on 2, are secondary allocations on a transmitter. They could easily be bought out by a bigger player, and I would not doubt that they are hoping for just this. 

I can, from my aeirie here on the Hudson, very, very occasionally lock RF channel 2 from my best HD tuner. Never 4. RF 3, on the other hand, is a 93% station, but very subject to flutter, I think, from aircraft. I have a "far fringe" roof antenna, feeding 4 sets and a stereo tuner, with no amp. All sets get over 90% on most channels. As far as the translators go, a 300 watt signal spread over 6 mhz does not get far.

My post was about propagation as observed over a few years from an unusual perspective. The regulatory nonsense is a whole different subject.


----------



## uhfyagi

It is weird what you said that non of broadcasters wanted low vhf channel, if there is auction coming up, like everyone agrees TV spectrum is gonna get congested, ]looks very likely that be using the afore mention low vhf frequency. All hoopla about digital conversion back in 2009 meant squat to fcc. For the networks they're just bunch of sheeps in the flock. Can you receive any Albany stations, back in analog days I use to receive wxxa fox 23 on a clear night, the full power stations back in those where supernovas.


----------



## speedlaw

uhfyagi said:


> It is weird what you said that non of broadcasters wanted low vhf channel, if there is auction coming up, like everyone agrees TV spectrum is gonna get congested, ]looks very likely that be using the afore mention low vhf frequency. All hoopla about digital conversion back in 2009 meant squat to fcc. For the networks they're just bunch of sheeps in the flock. Can you receive any Albany stations, back in analog days I use to receive wxxa fox 23 on a clear night, the full power stations back in those where supernovas.


Nope, no Albany, in the wrong direction. I can get central NJ and coastal NJ pretty well, but never anything in the other direction due to hills.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> Wrong most of vhf low band including channel 4 or 5 is in use already by low power stations on the nyc area. Take a look at trip site rabbit ears.info for yourself


Define "nyc area" The fact is that 40% and not "most of" the VHF-Lo band in the New York City market is in use by low-power TV stations. WJLP Middletown Township does not count as that station is full-power. WACP Atlantic City does not count and should not even be factored in to this discussion as that full-power station is licensed outside of the market.



speedlaw said:


> The 300 watt transmitter on 4, like the 300 watts on 2, are secondary allocations on a transmitter. They could easily be bought out by a bigger player, and I would not doubt that they are hoping for just this.
> 
> I can, from my aeirie here on the Hudson, very, very occasionally lock RF channel 2 from my best HD tuner. Never 4. RF 3, on the other hand, is a 93% station, but very subject to flutter, I think, from aircraft. I have a "far fringe" roof antenna, feeding 4 sets and a stereo tuner, with no amp. All sets get over 90% on most channels. As far as the translators go, a 300 watt signal spread over 6 mhz does not get far.
> 
> My post was about propagation as observed over a few years from an unusual perspective. The regulatory nonsense is a whole different subject.


WACP transmits with 10,000 watts on RF 4, not 300 watts.

And speaking of propagation, WKOB-LD's 300 watt signal spread over 6 mhz on RF 2 has been confirmed received in the states of Florida and Kentucky. By my mileage count, that peashooter sure can travel far with the appropriate atmospheric conditions


----------



## retrosonic

*Hi Gain Indoor HD Antenna for NYC Area?*

Guys, can anyone recommend a High Gain Indoor Digital antenna that will bring in stations in lower Manhattan? My new 4K monitor (which I primarily use to watch off my Media PC) cant seem to pull in any Digital stations, using a Mohu Curve antenna. Seems that the signal strength is just too low in my apt.

Any ideas?
Many thanks.


----------



## uhfyagi

nyc is hard to receive if you're in Manhattan? Multi path is a big problem. that being said, in order to help you we need to know a few things, your location, how many TV are your planning to hook up to. a Tvfool report from you would be sweet


----------



## AloEuro

Bounce TV bounced from 9-3 is running on 41-3 at 480i ,enjoy


----------



## LenL

*BOunce TV*

Old News! That change was made about 4 weeks back!


----------



## Aero 1

Laff TV just launched at 8 am this morning on 7.3 with the movie "My Mom's New Boyfriend" in the correct aspect ratio. A rarity for sub channel these days.


----------



## MeatChicken

Aero 1 said:


> Laff TV just launched at 8 am this morning on 7.3 with the movie "My Mom's New Boyfriend" in the correct aspect ratio. A rarity for sub channel these days.


 Is the channel broadcast in 480p ?


----------



## d3193

Aero 1 said:


> Laff TV just launched at 8 am this morning on 7.3 with the movie "My Mom's New Boyfriend" in the correct aspect ratio. A rarity for sub channel these days.


I find it hard to understand why any channel broadcasts in 4x3. The majority of TVs are now 16x9, and those with old sets are used to seeing letterboxed images today (and the majority have the option to zoom in to fill their screen if they wish). We so often see a widescreen image letterboxed into a 4x3 broadcast frame, which is then pillarboxed on a 16x9 display - a tiny mess.

Cozi on 4.2 and Decades on 2.2 are doing it right. What's the logic behind the other approach? Is it the belief that the subchannels are only watched by people with old CRT televisions?


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> Laff TV just launched at 8 am this morning on 7.3 with the movie "My Mom's New Boyfriend" in the correct aspect ratio. A rarity for sub channel these days.


Im surprised that they kept 7.2 livewell was suppose to cease? btw the pq on this sub 7.3 is pure garbage, could've been given a higher bitrate looks so bad I won't even tune in. 😭


----------



## roseha

retrosonic said:


> Guys, can anyone recommend a High Gain Indoor Digital antenna that will bring in stations in lower Manhattan? My new 4K monitor (which I primarily use to watch off my Media PC) cant seem to pull in any Digital stations, using a Mohu Curve antenna. Seems that the signal strength is just too low in my apt.
> 
> Any ideas?
> Many thanks.


I recently bought the HD Frequency Cable Cutter HD Digital TV Antenna - Mini model for about $38 online. It's placed inside my window and is doing a good job picking up most channels, including MeTV which was very tough for me in the beginning. If you are in Manhattan you shouldn't need any amplification and it works fine inside.
*
*


----------



## PaulFrancis

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm enjoying Decades in its current format. The "countdown" really isn't necessary. Just keep showing these programs in big blocks.


----------



## uhfyagi

PaulFrancis said:


> I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm enjoying Decades in its current format. The "countdown" really isn't necessary. Just keep showing these programs in big blocks.


Have they showned the "fugitive" yet?


----------



## uhfyagi

PaulFrancis said:


> I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm enjoying Decades in its current format. The "countdown" really isn't necessary. Just keep showing these programs in big blocks.


I agree, have they showned the "fugitive" yet?


----------



## uhfyagi

comcast has been conquered! Yes there is god!


----------



## uhfyagi

Where is everyone snoozing? HEY EVeERYONE. WAkEUP.


----------



## PaulFrancis

The Fugitive? No, but I am currently getting a "kick" (pun intended) out of the Kung Fu.


----------



## PaulFrancis

BTW, I'm glad Comcast lost. It's about time they put a stop to all the monopolizing that has been going on in recent years.


----------



## PaulFrancis

As for LAFF, I'm not really impressed by the lineup so far. Grace Under Fire? Please. Whatever happened to that lady anyway?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

PaulFrancis said:


> I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm enjoying Decades in its current format. The "countdown" really isn't necessary. Just keep showing these programs in big blocks.


I was thinking the same thing. I'm sure that CBS & Weigel with their professional broadcasting experiences and vast libraries have a good solid plan for DECADES, but the present stunting format is certainly unique to the television landscape. FWIW, I've been watching several of the Series Binges, and like the presentation.

I'm not sure, at present, this format would attract national advertisers and thus would have to be sustained primarily from P.I. advertising, but that reality is true for many of the new diginets. Me-TV, owned entirely by Weigel, seems to be one of the few broadcast diginets which have gained the attention and revenues from national sponsors.

As to DECADES, the diginet is starting to promote its new series "Through The Decades" hosted by Bill Curtis which will launch on May 25, 2015. The diginet is also presently re-airing "The Millionaire" Series Binge, which began this afternoon at 2PM, although I am not certain as to why, whether every episode will be aired, or whether the episodes will air in the same order as they did back in January 2015. The revised schedule also indicates that "Family Affair", "The Phil Silvers Show", "Love American Style", and "Route 66" are all scheduled to re-air.

The remaining Series Binges scheduled are "Dark Shadows" starting on May 13, "The Twilight Zone" starting on May 16, and "The Fugitive" starting on May 20, 2015. Following "The Fugitive" Series Binge, DECADES will officially launch.


----------



## NYota1

*You Guys Are Lucky*

You guys are so lucky down there to have all these new channels.

Up here in the Albany area, out of all the new diginets available, the only ones we have are MeTV, Antenna TV, ThisTV and Grit. I guess it pays to be in a top 10 market where your regular affiliates are all network owned. 

Oh yes...and we STILL have LiveWell (but not Laff). 

Just be thankful you are where you are!


----------



## uhfyagi

I only watch metv once in awhile, true about many stations to choose, but not that much there to see, are you a cord cutter? I stream mostly, pretty sure everyone does now.


----------



## NYota1

uhfyagi said:


> I only watch metv once in awhile, true about many stations to choose, but not that much there to see, are you a cord cutter? I stream mostly, pretty sure everyone does now.


Despite that the world of entertainment is changing rapidly, my viewing habits haven't altered much. I still watch TV...ON TV. Streaming hasn't become second nature to me yet.


----------



## LenL

I still watch TV on TV too. Although I do take out DVDs from my local library when the summer reruns come on and we catch up on the movies that came out during 2014 and 2015 and also watch shows like Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire etc.


My Samsung TV is a smart TV and I can get Netflix, HULU and many other providers and pay to watch movies and shows but why bother when I can get them for free from my local library.


----------



## PaulFrancis

I just stick to OTA on my Sony Trinitron. Every now and then, I'll flick on the Roku and stream some YouTube stuff. I'm pretty happy with Decades, Movies, GetTv, Cozy, MeTv, Antenna and Grit.


----------



## PaulFrancis

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> PaulFrancis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm enjoying Decades in its current format. The "countdown" really isn't necessary. Just keep showing these programs in big blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking the same thing. I'm sure that CBS & Weigel with their professional broadcasting experiences and vast libraries have a good solid plan for DECADES, but the present stunting format is certainly unique to the television landscape. FWIW, I've been watching several of the Series Binges, and like the presentation.
> 
> I'm not sure, at present, this format would attract national advertisers and thus would have to be sustained primarily from P.I. advertising, but that reality is true for many of the new diginets. Me-TV, owned entirely by Weigel, seems to be one of the few broadcast diginets which have gained the attention and revenues from national sponsors.
> 
> As to DECADES, the diginet is starting to promote its new series "Through The Decades" hosted by Bill Curtis which will launch on May 25, 2015. The diginet is also presently re-airing "The Millionaire" Series Binge, which began this afternoon at 2PM, although I am not certain as to why, whether every episode will be aired, or whether the episodes will air in the same order as they did back in January 2015. The revised schedule also indicates that "Family Affair", "The Phil Silvers Show", "Love American Style", and "Route 66" are all scheduled to re-air.
> 
> The remaining Series Binges scheduled are "Dark Shadows" starting on May 13, "The Twilight Zone" starting on May 16, and "The Fugitive" starting on May 20, 2015. Following "The Fugitive" Series Binge, DECADES will officially launch.
Click to expand...

I'm not certain it will attract national advertisers either; however, the format is an attractive one, in that allows people to watch a certain program at any time. For example, I can't watch "Kung Fu" at 4:30 in the morning if that is to be its normal time slot. I'm certain that a CBS owned station will eventually be able to attract bigger advertisers. Time will tell.


----------



## LenL

What I have noticed is that the majority of sub channels are now showing old TV shows and old movies. There is not much in the way of new programming available. So if you enjoy the old shows and movies you hit the jackpot. Since I am 70 years old I guess the programming is aimed at people my age. However that being said I have NO interest in living in the past and like the newer shows and programming much better.


On another note, when we old codgers die off I wonder who will be around or interested in watching these sub channels? I sure hope the networks have a plan "B".


----------



## nyctveng

The current retro programming IS plan B. Costly original programming such as Live Well and NY Non Stop lost money. Round the clock weather doesn't keep viewers tuned in for more than a few minutes. Music Video channels such as the one WPIX had never caught on. National services with retro programming is cheap to program and profitable while not taking viewers away from sister cable stations that make much more money from cable subscriber and advertising dollars. 






LenL said:


> What I have noticed is that the majority of sub channels are now showing old TV shows and old movies. There is not much in the way of new programming available. So if you enjoy the old shows and movies you hit the jackpot. Since I am 70 years old I guess the programming is aimed at people my age. However that being said I have NO interest in living in the past and like the newer shows and programming much better.
> 
> 
> On another note, when we old codgers die off I wonder who will be around or interested in watching these sub channels? I sure hope the networks have a plan "B".


----------



## NYota1

LenL said:


> What I have noticed is that the majority of sub channels are now showing old TV shows and old movies. There is not much in the way of new programming available. So if you enjoy the old shows and movies you hit the jackpot. Since I am 70 years old I guess the programming is aimed at people my age. However that being said I have NO interest in living in the past and like the newer shows and programming much better.
> 
> 
> On another note, when we old codgers die off I wonder who will be around or interested in watching these sub channels? I sure hope the networks have a plan "B".


I was born in 1959...and although I don't "think" I live in the past...I REALLY enjoy the resurgence of the classic programming. I like some of the new programs...but I find it more comforting to see old favorites. Then there are even those that I was too young to be interested in back when...for which I find interesting now. 

Good comedies nowadays are few and far between. Today's drama's are a lot edgier, but I'm often too busy to devote an entire hour to one program. I'd watch GetTV if we got it here...but we don't.


----------



## NYota1

nyctveng said:


> The current retro programming IS plan B. Costly original programming such as Live Well and NY Non Stop lost money. Round the clock weather doesn't keep viewers tuned in for more than a few minutes. Music Video channels such as the one WPIX had never caught on. National services with retro programming is cheap to program and profitable while not taking viewers away from sister cable stations that make much more money from cable subscriber and advertising dollars.


This is exactly what bugs me about our stations up here. 

A great example is our ABC affiliate for which you've outlined above. It has 2 sub-channels. One is LiveWell, and the other is 24hr weather! It's REALLY frustrating that they don't substitute one (or both) of them for something worthwhile.


----------



## LenL

I really would love to have a 24 hour weather updated weather channel and I guess I may in the minority on preferring Live Well to all the retro sub channels.


----------



## MeatChicken

LenL said:


> "...On another note, when we old codgers die off I wonder who will be around or interested in watching these sub channels? I sure hope the networks have a plan "B".


 If OTA in general, & Retro Subchannels are still around as it is now ...
Then " Leave it to Beaver, "Lassie", " The Any Griffith Show", "Voyage to The Bottom Of The Sea", " Run for Your Life" .. will be replaced by "Saved by The Bell", "Friends", "Full House", "The X Files", "Ally McBeal" & "Northern Exposure" .. ect ...


----------



## NYota1

MeatChicken said:


> If OTA in general, & Retro Subchannels are still around as it is now ...
> Then " Leave it to Beaver, "Lassie", " The Any Griffith Show", "Voyage to The Bottom Of The Sea", " Run for Your Life" .. will be replaced by "Saved by The Bell", "Friends", "Full House", "The X Files", "Ally McBeal" & "Northern Exposure" .. ect ...


I don't think the true classics ("Beaver" ..."Lucy"... "Griffith") will ever completely disappear. And it's networks like "Antenna TV" which are showing 80's programs right now...who will probably continue to do that. Somehow it doesn't seem possible that the current parade of similar programs would ever fall into those 'classic' categories. The Law & Order spin-offs and Big Bang Theory will be in general syndication for many years to come I would think. I can't see even popular programs such as "Mom", "The Middle", "Modern Family" & "The Good Wife" ever being considered true classics like "Perry Mason", "MASH", "The Twilight Zone", and "I Love Lucy" are today.


----------



## LenL

I still think we need more variety and there is too much retro programming. How about taking all the old cooking shows like Galloping Gourmet, Smith, Julia Child etc and having a sub channel run all their cooking shows! Then we have retro cooking. At least it will be something different.


----------



## Trip in VA

Isn't that sort of what Create is?

- Trip


----------



## LenL

WLIW Create is not available for me to receive at my location. I think you would know better than I would. I do watch a lot of PBS though and catch as many cooking shows a I can on13.1 and 50.1. Also I catch some shows on Live Well.


----------



## veedon

The public TV stations do a fabulous job of producing cooking shows.

The Rick Bayless show "Mexico, One Plate at a Time" is produced at WTTW in Chicago, and LiveWell has aired the syndicated re-run episodes. But I have not seen any other public TV cooking shows appear in syndication on commercially licensed TV stations. Most of the shows do seem to go over to the Create channel. Unfortunately, my local public TV station only airs selected shows, not the entire Create feed.

In addition to cooking, Create has travel, gardening, and crafts shows.
http://createtv.com/Home


----------



## veedon

NYota1 said:


> ... I'd watch GetTV if we got it here...but we don't.


I had high hopes for GetTV when it initially launched. I thought it would have quite a few grade B (maybe grade A-minus) film noir flicks, some light comedy or romantic comedy pics, and an occasional musical or biographical film. But now that it's been up and running for a while, the schedule is way too heavy on westerns.

I've never seen the appeal of westerns.
MeTV also has too many of those shows.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> WLIW Create is not available for me to receive at my location. I think you would know better than I would. I do watch a lot of PBS though and catch as many cooking shows a I can on13.1 and 50.1. Also I catch some shows on Live Well.


thats why you oldies need to get on that Internet fad we young people talk a lot about  I cant get PBS Create either from my location but i do get it with the free PBS app on the Roku.


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> WLIW Create is not available for me to receive at my location. I think you would know better than I would. I do watch a lot of PBS though and catch as many cooking shows a I can on13.1 and 50.1. Also I catch some shows on Live Well.


I know, I'm just saying that the network does exist that has that programming. WNET just hasn't seen fit to make it available to the whole audience.

- Trip


----------



## NYota1

veedon said:


> I had high hopes for GetTV when it initially launched. I thought it would have quite a few grade B (maybe grade A-minus) film noir flicks, some light comedy or romantic comedy pics, and an occasional musical or biographical film. But now that it's been up and running for a while, the schedule is way too heavy on westerns.
> 
> I've never seen the appeal of westerns.
> MeTV also has too many of those shows.


I don't care for westerns either. Nor do I watch the western programs on MeTV.


----------



## unsmiley

I can't believe I am saying this, but I like the Westerns! Never watched any of them as a kid, so this is a whole new universe for me . 

I miss Cozi TV's broadcast of The Virginian. But I am digging Big Valley, Gunsmoke, and Bonanza.


----------



## veedon

unsmiley said:


> I can't believe I am saying this, but I like the Westerns! Never watched any of them as a kid, so this is a whole new universe for me .
> 
> I miss Cozi TV's broadcast of The Virginian. But I am digging Big Valley, Gunsmoke, and Bonanza.


"Gunsmoke" was pretty good in its later years, when it downplayed the gunfights.
"Bonanza" was OK, but the outdoor sets must have been done on a budget of about ten dollars for the whole run of the series. As for "Big Valley", I prefer to watch Barbara Stanwyck in her younger days, the movies of the 1940's.


----------



## uhfyagi

veedon said:


> "Gunsmoke" was pretty good in its later years, when it downplayed the gunfights.
> "Bonanza" was OK, but the outdoor sets must have been done on a budget of about ten dollars for the whole run of the series. As for "Big Valley", I prefer to watch Barbara Stanwyck in her younger days, the movies of the 1940's.


Linda what's her last name is nice eye candy?


----------



## veedon

uhfyagi said:


> Linda what's her last name is nice eye candy?


Her glory days came later, on a little show called "Dynasty", where she played the wife of the guy who was once the "Bachelor Father".


----------



## uhfyagi

veedon said:


> Her glory days came later, on a little show called "Dynasty", where she played the wife of the guy who was once the "Bachelor Father".


Evans, that's it. Joan collins was good poa.


----------



## uhfyagi

Anyone notice strong TV signals the past few days on most channels. Using a UHF Yagi outdoor about 30 ft off the ground, only 100 ft total height above sea level, (wish it was more) picked up Boston wgbh a pbs station on rf 19 last night quite strong signal, anyone else getting stations not normally picked up, according dxinginfocenter.com there is layer of strong pattern around metro area for the next few days. most of us ota enjoy getting more channels but tropo can be annoying when you lose some local stations that rely coming in. I was surprise not to be able to receive telemundo last night rf 36 which is automatic as it comes, I was receiving another station on that frequency.


----------



## Trip in VA

The 1WTC test signals on channels 12 and 32 are running this morning.

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> The 1WTC test signals on channels 12 and 32 are running this morning.
> 
> - Trip


Is that reason that ions TV signal on TV ch12 has been Mia? what does it mean to us ota guys?


----------



## speedlaw

veedon said:


> "Gunsmoke" was pretty good in its later years, when it downplayed the gunfights.
> "Bonanza" was OK, but the outdoor sets must have been done on a budget of about ten dollars for the whole run of the series. As for "Big Valley", I prefer to watch Barbara Stanwyck in her younger days, the movies of the 1940's.


Watch Get Smart or any early snow. They saved a lot of money on production realizing half the audience was watching on black and white sets under 28 inches. Only blown up to HD standards off the orig. film stock can we see the artifice.

The Star Trek TOS HD masters show they acrually did an excellent job with special effects, save a few clearly fake "blood" lines in some episodes. Even those would have blurred in your 60's color TV enough to look "real".

On air camera folks HATED hdtv...their plastic surgeons didn't.


----------



## unsmiley

veedon said:


> "Gunsmoke" was pretty good in its later years, when it downplayed the gunfights.
> "Bonanza" was OK, but the outdoor sets must have been done on a budget of about ten dollars for the whole run of the series. As for "Big Valley", I prefer to watch Barbara Stanwyck in her younger days, the movies of the 1940's.


Yeah, the sets sucked but the stories were good.


----------



## veedon

unsmiley said:


> Yeah, the sets sucked but the stories were good.


"Bonanza" seemed less polished than "Gunsmoke". Of course, CBS was the top network for many years.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


Trip in VA said:


> The 1WTC test signals on channels 12 and 32 are running this morning.
> 
> - Trip


Thank you for the information, but three quick questions:

1. Why did these on-air tests not get received by your Fair Lawn, NJ. antenna? (Presumably, at least the RF 32 station would have been received);

2. Have WABC-TV and WPXN-TV filed a permanent schedule with the FCC, listing when these test transmissions shall take place and which virtual channel numbers (if any) they shall be using?; and,

3. Has anyone (Trip or other individuals) captured A/V from the test transmissions stated to have commenced thus far?

Thank you for any information responders are at liberty to provide


----------



## Trip in VA

It *was* picked up by my setup.

http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/render_graph/10343612/tuner1/12/-96hours/now
http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/1-temp/sta12.htm

http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/render_graph/10343612/tuner1/32/-96hours/now
http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/1-temp/sta32.htm

That's how I knew it was on the air.

Why would a temporary setup have a permanent schedule?

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Trip in VA said:


> It *was* picked up by my setup.
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/render_graph/10343612/tuner1/12/-96hours/now
> http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/1-temp/sta12.htm
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/render_graph/10343612/tuner1/32/-96hours/now
> http://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/1-temp/sta32.htm
> 
> That's how I knew it was on the air.


I definitely see that, but when I visit here: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/one_tuner_map/10343612/tuner1 and search by "RF Channel" for stations in the time frame "Ever Received", the only station for RF 12 listed is WPXU-LD Amityville and there is no listing at all for RF 32.



Trip in VA said:


> Why would a temporary setup have a permanent schedule?
> 
> - Trip


I presumed a definite schedule was needed to coordinate with the aforementioned WPXU-LD and WXNY-LD New York, each of whose licensees agreed to power down as needed to accommodate for the testing. And seeing as those stations would have to leave the air and thus temporarily eliminate service to viewers within their respective contours, the FCC might have requested to be informed when such loss of services would occur.


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> I definitely see that, but when I visit here: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/one_tuner_map/10343612/tuner1 and search by "RF Channel" for stations in the time frame "Ever Received", the only station for RF 12 listed is WPXU-LD Amityville and there is no listing at all for RF 32.


Since it's an experimental authorization and the original signal is staying on the air at the same time, it doesn't show up in the list. The software isn't able to identify the signal because it already knows WPXN is on 31 and the TSID doesn't match WPXN's TSID. It's not aware that WPXN is operating on 32 nor WABC on 12 and would probably not function properly if it did.



> I presumed a definite schedule was needed to coordinate with the aforementioned WPXU-LD and WXNY-LD New York, each of whose licensees agreed to power down as needed to accommodate for the testing. And seeing as those stations would have to leave the air and thus temporarily eliminate service to viewers within their respective contours, the FCC might have requested to be informed when such loss of services would occur.


As long as the two stations agreed to cooperate with the tests and no complaints get filed in either direction, there's no need for further FCC involvement.

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> Since it's an experimental authorization and the original signal is staying on the air at the same time, it doesn't show up in the list. The software isn't able to identify the signal because it already knows WPXN is on 31 and the TSID doesn't match WPXN's TSID. It's not aware that WPXN is operating on 32 nor WABC on 12 and would probably not function properly if it did.
> 
> 
> 
> As long as the two stations agreed to cooperate with the tests and no complaints get filed in either direction, there's no need for further FCC involvement.
> 
> - Trip


Trip so what assesment can you make out from these test runs? Would the ota viewer see a stronger signal if broadcasters use wtc?
Trip, share your insight with us


----------



## Trip in VA

It's hard to tell from the one data point I have, which is a set of rabbit ears on top of a TV at my grandmother's house. But what I did see is that the channel 12 signal, despite being only 5 kW and directional such that less than 1 kW is actually going in her direction, the signal was MUCH better than even 34 kW from WABC-7 on ESB. The channel 32 signal was on-par with the current ESB UHF signals, despite maybe 15 kW actually going in her direction. (Most of the ESB signals are eaten by multipath, and I suspect the 1WTC signal was also.) These two transmit antennas are highly directional just because they're being used for testing; actual construction on 1WTC would be omni for most of the stations.

At least at her house, moving to 1WTC would be a large improvement. 

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

Trip in VA said:


> It's hard to tell from the one data point I have, which is a set of rabbit ears on top of a TV at my grandmother's house. But what I did see is that the channel 12 signal, despite being only 5 kW and directional such that less than 1 kW is actually going in her direction, the signal was MUCH better than even 34 kW from WABC-7 on ESB. The channel 32 signal was on-par with the current ESB UHF signals, despite maybe 15 kW actually going in her direction. (Most of the ESB signals are eaten by multipath, and I suspect the 1WTC signal was also.) These two transmit antennas are highly directional just because they're being used for testing; actual construction on 1WTC would be omni for most of the stations.
> 
> At least at her house, moving to 1WTC would be a large improvement.
> 
> - Trip


agreed that transmitting from 1750' height at twc will be boost signals and aid on multipath like you mentioned. Specially on the cliff reception, it might be hard a sell to the networks though.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,
Thank you for all the insight so far.


Trip in VA said:


> Since it's an experimental authorization and the original signal is staying on the air at the same time, it doesn't show up in the list. The software isn't able to identify the signal because it already knows WPXN is on 31 and the TSID doesn't match WPXN's TSID. It's not aware that WPXN is operating on 32 nor WABC on 12 and would probably not function properly if it did.
> 
> - Trip


Just for clarification: When you say "the original signal is staying on the air at the same time", are you saying that the original signal's license remains active throughout the test period and the original signal's transmitter is *silent*, or are you saying the actual original signal remains *on-air* simultaneously with the test signal transmitting?

Another question involves a hypothetical: Your antenna has received WNYJ-TV West Milford (RF 29). Suppose a strong tropospheric event nulled WNYJ-TV's signal and carried in WUVP Vineland (RF 29), and your antenna received it. How would the software react to this anomaly?



Trip in VA said:


> It's hard to tell from the one data point I have, which is a set of rabbit ears on top of a TV at my grandmother's house. But what I did see is that the channel 12 signal, despite being only 5 kW and directional such that less than 1 kW is actually going in her direction, the signal was MUCH better than even 34 kW from WABC-7 on ESB. The channel 32 signal was on-par with the current ESB UHF signals, despite maybe 15 kW actually going in her direction. (Most of the ESB signals are eaten by multipath, and I suspect the 1WTC signal was also.) These two transmit antennas are highly directional just because they're being used for testing; actual construction on 1WTC would be omni for most of the stations.
> 
> At least at her house, moving to 1WTC would be a large improvement.
> 
> - Trip


Did both stations use the TVCT name "WPXN" because the actual WPXN-TV uses TVCT name "ION"? And would it be reasonable to anticipate that further testing will take place?


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Just for clarification: When you say "the original signal is staying on the air at the same time", are you saying that the original signal's license remains active throughout the test period and the original signal's transmitter is *silent*, or are you saying the actual original signal remains *on-air* simultaneously with the test signal transmitting?


WPXN-31 was operating the whole time that 12 and 32 were on. 



> Another question involves a hypothetical: Your antenna has received WNYJ-TV West Milford (RF 29). Suppose a strong tropospheric event nulled WNYJ-TV's signal and carried in WUVP Vineland (RF 29), and your antenna received it. How would the software react to this anomaly?


It would properly detect a different signal on channel 29 and log it accordingly.



> Did both stations use the TVCT name "WPXN" because the actual WPXN-TV uses TVCT name "ION"? And would it be reasonable to anticipate that further testing will take place?


No idea why they used different name in the TVCT. The stations said testing would last a month, so yes, further testing is expected.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*RF 12 and RF 32 are ON THE AIR!!!!*

At 12 Midnight, RF 12 and RF 32 once again commenced test transmissions from 1 World Trade Center. Here are the specifics with respect to the programming and technical content:

RF 12 (WABC-TV New York): This stream is 16:9 with dynamic aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *WNBC* on virtual channel 12-10. Language is English and Spanish. Time is accurate, and no program guide information is available. The programming is a simulcast of WNBC New York.

RF 32 (WPXN-TV New York): This stream is 16:9 with dynamic aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *WCBS* on virtual channel 32-10. Language is English and Spanish. Time is -1 hour, and no program guide information is available. The programming is a simulcast of WCBS-TV New York.

As of tonight, each channel is only broadcasting one stream. Apparently, the hours between 12 Midnight and 6AM are the most likely for extensive testing from this facility.​


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

I have to make one correction to my 12:30AM post regarding RF 12 and RF 32.

The test transmissions began a half-hour earlier at 11:30PM. So henceforth I would venture that 11:30PM will be the time future testing will likely occur.

Carefully examining the signals, it appears that, as Trip pointed out, RF 12 is much stronger than RF 7. However, neither RF 12 nor RF 32 are better than RF 33, which has a marginally stronger signal.

From a programming standpoint, tonight was an especially good night to simulcast WCBS-TV New York, seeing as Paul Shaffer was the second guest on "Late Show with David Letterman"


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm looking at it now and the channel 12 signal is slightly weaker than last time, while the signal quality on channel 32 is significantly higher. I'm told the transmit antennas were mounted in a way that made them easy to adjust the aim on for testing, so I'm assuming they are now aimed differently.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

And one more addendum to my reception report:

I had been using a Zenith DTA converter box for my reports earlier tonight. On an HDTV, I can confirm that, for whatever reason, the TVCT information does not reveal the call-signs nor the accurate virtual channel numbers. The HDTV television only lists the channel numbers as 12-1 and 32-1, respectively, and assigns no channel name to either.

This is a stark contrast to the WJLP signal in which the same television decoded both channel name and "-10" virtual channel number.

I realize signal strength throughout the market is what the Metropolitan Television Alliance is most interested in determining through these tests, but I felt it appropriate nonetheless to report my reception findings.


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> And one more addendum to my reception report:
> 
> I had been using a Zenith DTA converter box for my reports earlier tonight. On an HDTV, I can confirm that, for whatever reason, the TVCT information does not reveal the call-signs nor the accurate virtual channel numbers. The HDTV television only lists the channel numbers as 12-1 and 32-1, respectively, and assigns no channel name to either.
> 
> This is a stark contrast to the WJLP signal in which the same television decoded both channel name and "-10" virtual channel number.
> 
> I realize signal strength throughout the market is what the Metropolitan Television Alliance is most interested in determining through these tests, but I felt it appropriate nonetheless to report my reception findings.


I'm having a diffulcaty receiving these 2 test channels when they run these test late night early morning. During the day both are locked in, looks like wtc location is proving to a bit-- for me here in n.west queens. My outdoor antenna is aimed off target, so that could be why is breaking up so much I have a high rise blocking my Los to wtc btw. I've read that astc 3.0 is going to tolerate multi path when is gonna be in real world who knows?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*RF 12 and RF 32 are again ON THE AIR!!!!
*
Tonight's test transmissions began at 11:29PM at approximately half-strength and were brought up to full-power at 11:31PM. All other programming and technical parameters appear comparable to my prior report here.​


----------



## uhfyagi

Hey gia, signals are stronger for you at your present location than they are for me, you are probably higher terrain and have Los to WTC, which I don't to my chagrin 😬


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey uhfyagi,


uhfyagi said:


> Hey gia, signals are stronger for you at your present location than they are for me, you are probably higher terrain and have Los to WTC, which I don't to my chagrin ������


I receive the signals nearly as strong as the UHF signals from ESB. I do think the RF 32 signal could be slightly stronger. Nonetheless, I can claim no less than reliable and solid reception from both channels.

Higher terrain with LOS to 1 WTC???  The only way I could be at lower terrain is if I lived in a marsh. The terrain I presently am at (approximately 40 feet) is a bane to this DX enthusiast. What works in my favor is a superior antenna that is very forgiving of its attic home which is surrounded by many trees.

I read your earlier post and this one, and am very much surprised you cannot receive these channels, or at least are receiving them so poorly. What efforts, if any, have you made to improve your reception?


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey uhfyagi,
> 
> I receive the signals nearly as strong as the UHF signals from ESB. I do think the RF 32 signal could be slightly stronger. Nonetheless, I can claim no less than reliable and solid reception from both channels.
> 
> Higher terrain with LOS to 1 WTC???  The only way I could be at lower terrain is if I lived in a marsh. The terrain I presently am at (approximately 40 feet) is a bane to this DX enthusiast. What works in my favor is a superior antenna that is very forgiving of its attic home which is surrounded by many trees.
> 
> I read your earlier post and this one, and am very much surprised you cannot receive these channels, or at least are receiving them so poorly. What efforts, if any, have you made to improve your reception?


Seems like we share similar over the air problems, I must say I'm curious as you mentioned a superior antenna, as to what brand and model you use to receive ota? ​


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> Seems like we share similar over the air problems, I must say I'm curious as you mentioned a superior antenna, as to what brand and model you use to receive ota?


It's not about brand and model. Don't believe when the ladies say "size doesn't matter"; It does.

The antenna I'm using is circa 2005 and is rated for broadcast signals up to 190 miles. Unfortunately, it is installed in my rather small attic which is surrounded by several thin yet mature trees. I'm fairly certain this inhibits my reception potential.

This link will bring you to a rendering of what antenna type I am using: http://www.summitsource.com/images/products/ANW010.jpg

I also do not have the benefit of a rotor. But even if I did have one installed, in this installation it would be useless seeing as I can barely manually rotate the antenna in its confined location.

I also always suggest to carefully inspect all coax and matching transformers as any deterioration can invite signal leakage.

My two advantages are climate protection and physical access. If you do not have physical access to your antenna, it can be very difficult to maintain it unless you hire someone. Antenna technicians are very difficult to come by these days, so you will likely find yourself having to pay a satellite installer or roofing contractor to make whatever adjustments or repairs deemed necessary to maintain the antenna.


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> It's not about brand and model. Don't believe when the ladies say "size doesn't matter"; It does.
> 
> The antenna I'm using is circa 2005 and is rated for broadcast signals up to 190 miles. Unfortunately, it is installed in my rather small attic which is surrounded by several thin yet mature trees. I'm fairly certain this inhibits my reception potential.
> 
> This link will bring you to a rendering of what antenna type I am using: http://www.summitsource.com/images/products/ANW010.jpg
> 
> I also do not have the benefit of a rotor. But even if I did have one installed, in this installation it would be useless seeing as I can barely manually rotate the antenna in its confined location.
> 
> I also always suggest to carefully inspect all coax and matching transformers as any deterioration can invite signal leakage.
> 
> My two advantages are climate protection and physical access. If you do not have physical access to your antenna, it can be very difficult to maintain it unless you hire someone. Antenna technicians are very difficult to come by these days, so you will likely find yourself having to pay a satellite installer or roofing contractor to make whatever adjustments or repairs deemed necessary to maintain the antenna.


Giacomo, you bring some interesting points on your assessment, some which I agree, some I don't. the antenna you use for ota is not superior is a basic generic type which is no better than ratshack type, I've used this type of antenna many years back, the main reason I still don't use any longer is sub par performance on the TV frequencies. you don't mention what type of amplifier you are using with your setup, if any, the part I totally not on synch with is part of needing a installer to maintain the antenna, I have assess to my roof mounted antenna any time I choose, I can understand if most of ota folks can't get to their roof for the obvious reasons. a attic mounted setup is cheating yourself of what really is out there, you are not seeing the whole picture, my mid size UHF Yagi can see 60+ miles or more when darkness sets in. my comments are my own not anyone else's.😊


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey uhfyagi,


uhfyagi said:


> Giacomo, you bring some interesting points on your assessment, some which I agree, some I don't. the antenna you use for ota is not superior is a basic generic type which is no better than ratshack type, I've used this type of antenna many years back, the main reason I still don't use any longer is sub par performance on the TV frequencies. you don't mention what type of amplifier you are using with your setup, if any, the part I totally not on synch with is part of needing a installer to maintain the antenna, I have assess to my roof mounted antenna any time I choose, I can understand if most of ota folks can't get to their roof for the obvious reasons. a attic mounted setup is cheating yourself of what really is out there, you are not seeing the whole picture, my mid size UHF Yagi can see 60+ miles or more when darkness sets in. my comments are my own not anyone else's.😊


I bring many interesting points which you DON'T agree with, lol.

My antenna is superior compared to what many people are trying to work with. I've heard/read many accounts of people trying to pull VHF with UHF-only, indoor antennas, antiquated/busted antennas, etc.

I did, in fact, purchase my antenna from Radio Shack (a/k/a RatShack, a/k/a OTCMKTS: RSHCQ). I'm not sure WHY your performance when you were using the antenna was subpar; in all fairness you continue to experience problematic local reception using a different antenna.

I am using no amplifier because I reside near government emergency responders that use VHF-Lo on a regular basis. When they key up, it usually cannibalizes WKOB-LD. It is _possible_ that an amplifier may increase the undesired noise to the point it similarly cannibalizes WJLP, which presently is unaffected by their transmissions.

I will venture to guess you reside in a structure with a flat-roof. If I am correct, you have a very advantageous situation which is far superior for television reception. My peaked roof, while great for discharging rain water and snow, has no such easy access were an antenna mounted upon the peak with a ten-foot mast.

You are also correct that my reception is being cheated; As I type this, I see a steady signal on RF 34 which I know is WCAU Philadelphia which is too weak to decode. I also know if the antenna was better oriented outside, I could probably be sitting back right now watching "Cindy Crawford Reveals Secret to Ageless Beauty", which ordinarily would be boring and dull but not so much when being transmitted from an outside television market.

At times, you do report great DX reception, such as from the Boston market and elsewhere. This is why I am confused as to why your reception from 1 WTC has proved so poor.

My comments are my own, not Rocco's or anyone else. 😊


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey uhfyagi,
> 
> I bring many interesting points which you DON'T agree with, lol.
> 
> My antenna is superior compared to what many people are trying to work with. I've heard/read many accounts of people trying to pull VHF with UHF-only, indoor antennas, antiquated/busted antennas, etc.
> 
> I did, in fact, purchase my antenna from Radio Shack (a/k/a RatShack, a/k/a OTCMKTS: RSHCQ). I'm not sure WHY your performance when you were using the antenna was subpar; in all fairness you continue to experience problematic local reception using a different antenna.
> 
> I am using no amplifier because I reside near government emergency responders that use VHF-Lo on a regular basis. When they key up, it usually cannibalizes WKOB-LD. It is _possible_ that an amplifier may increase the undesired noise to the point it similarly cannibalizes WJLP, which presently is unaffected by their transmissions.
> 
> I will venture to guess you reside in a structure with a flat-roof. If I am correct, you have a very advantageous situation which is far superior for television reception. My peaked roof, while great for discharging rain water and snow, has no such easy access were an antenna mounted upon the peak with a ten-foot mast.
> 
> You are also correct that my reception is being cheated; As I type this, I see a steady signal on RF 34 which I know is WCAU Philadelphia which is too weak to decode. I also know if the antenna was better oriented outside, I could probably be sitting back right now watching "Cindy Crawford Reveals Secret to Ageless Beauty", which ordinarily would be boring and dull but not so much when being transmitted from an outside television market.
> 
> At times, you do report great DX reception, such as from the Boston market and elsewhere. This is why I am confused as to why your reception from 1 WTC has proved so poor.
> 
> My comments are my own, not Rocco's or anyone else. 😊


giacomo I'm not bashing your antenna equipment, but anyone who knows about tv equipment will tell you that radio shack antennas, were highly and i mean highly overrated they advertised their antennas with mileage rating which was complete exageration to say the least. 190 miles ? every item they sell is low quality on the workmanship, they do have 1 antenna that is good is the double bay uhf antenna, similar to the one used on 7 foot parabolic uhf. their tv preamplifier are the worst I've ever come across. high noise figures and prone to overload is the normal in performance. I think the chan 34 you are almost receiving is not wcau is fox mundo a latino channel broadcast in HD. I'm surrounded all around by high rises to the west of me, hence nyc and nj are totally blocked as los goes. to the true north I have a clear view thats why I can receive from connecticut and upstate NY.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> giacomo I'm not bashing your antenna equipment, but anyone who knows about tv equipment will tell you that radio shack antennas, were highly and i mean highly overrated they advertised their antennas with mileage rating which was complete exageration to say the least. 190 miles ?


Apparently, you are familiar with these antennas. Yes, 190 miles is the rating. But you have to realize that such reception is only possible under the most ideal conditions with no obstruction to LOS. If we lived on high-elevated farmland, we would be enjoying every available channel within that aeronautic range, and perhaps beyond. Northern New Jersey and Queens, New York rarely afford residents with unobstructed LOS to 1WTC, ESB, or other transmitting antennas. Unfortunately, our Market #1 region is forced to reconcile with obstructions, refractions, and man-made interference. There is NO antenna presently available that will perfectly compensate for those deficiencies.



uhfyagi said:


> every item they sell is low quality on the workmanship, they do have 1 antenna that is good is the double bay uhf antenna, similar to the one used on 7 foot parabolic uhf.


A double-bay UHF antenna might be good... for UHF. As long as the FCC permits the transmission of VHF-Lo signals (which I anticipate will be strongly encouraged over the course of the next year), I want to avail myself of every available channel. A UHF antenna, no matter how durable and reliable, does not have the capability to reliably receive VHF-Lo.

BTW, I would advise against buying any Radio Shack stock in the near future 



uhfyagi said:


> their tv preamplifier are the worst I've ever come across. high noise figures and prone to overload is the normal in performance.


On this, we are in 100% agreement. I have yet to work with a Radio Shack amplifier that did anything but elevate the noise. Back in the analog days, I tried to amplify the RF 26 (WNXY-LP) signal in order to better receive a locally-produced music video request show; The end result elevated the noise and proved that adequately placed rabbit ears could reap better results.



uhfyagi said:


> I think the chan 34 you are almost receiving is not wcau is fox mundo a latino channel broadcast in HD.


The RF 34 signal only makes appearances between April and October, which indicates tropospheric ducting. On some rare occasions, WCAU is the station that has decoded. I have yet to decode WPXU-LD East Orange, and I suspect that with WCBS-TV on RF 33 in conjunction with my present set-up, I shall not be availed of the opportunity anytime soon.



uhfyagi said:


> I'm surrounded all around by high rises to the west of me, hence nyc and nj are totally blocked as los goes. to the true north I have a clear view thats why I can receive from connecticut and upstate NY.


Ironically, it seems your location is physically isolated from all of the Market #1 stations, but ripe for tropospheric patterns from New England. That is most unfortunate, and further proof that any spectrum reclamation and repacking must be done with consideration for those who reside in the market and are obstructed from optimal market reception.


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Apparently, you are familiar with these antennas. Yes, 190 miles is the rating. But you have to realize that such reception is only possible under the most ideal conditions with no obstruction to LOS. If we lived on high-elevated farmland, we would be enjoying every available channel within that aeronautic range, and perhaps beyond. Northern New Jersey and Queens, New York rarely afford residents with unobstructed LOS to 1WTC, ESB, or other transmitting antennas. Unfortunately, our Market #1 region is forced to reconcile with obstructions, refractions, and man-made interference. There is NO antenna presently available that will perfectly compensate for those deficiencies.
> 
> 
> A double-bay UHF antenna might be good... for UHF. As long as the FCC permits the transmission of VHF-Lo signals (which I anticipate will be strongly encouraged over the course of the next year), I want to avail myself of every available channel. A UHF antenna, no matter how durable and reliable, does not have the capability to reliably receive VHF-Lo.
> 
> BTW, I would advise against buying any Radio Shack stock in the near future
> 
> 
> On this, we are in 100% agreement. I have yet to work with a Radio Shack amplifier that did anything but elevate the noise. Back in the analog days, I tried to amplify the RF 26 (WNXY-LP) signal in order to better receive a locally-produced music video request show; The end result elevated the noise and proved that adequately placed rabbit ears could reap better results.
> 
> 
> The RF 34 signal only makes appearances between April and October, which indicates tropospheric ducting. On some rare occasions, WCAU is the station that has decoded. I have yet to decode WPXU-LD East Orange, and I suspect that with WCBS-TV on RF 33 in conjunction with my present set-up, I shall not be availed of the opportunity anytime soon.
> 
> 
> Ironically, it seems your location is physically isolated from all of the Market #1 stations, but ripe for tropospheric patterns from New England. That is most unfortunate, and further proof that any spectrum reclamation and repacking must be done with consideration for those who reside in the market and are obstructed from optimal market reception.


Thxs Giacomo, but that' how the cookie crumbles.😥


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## Giacomo Siffredi

*1 World Trade Center Television Test Broadcasting*

The following group e-mail was sent by Tom Kotta at WNET Newark, and shared by Karl Zuk, regarding overnight DTV test transmissions from 1 World Trade Center in Manhattan:

There were no transmissions last night. Also the antennas still point north, but unless weather or other impediments present themselves they should be moved east tomorrow. There should be a broadcast tonight, so tune in and see what you see.

Recently I learned that test transmissions are being conducted nightly on VHF channel 12 and UHF channel 32 (though maybe not on weekends – I don’t know the exact schedule) between 23:30 and 06:00 the following morning. It seems the antennas are at the top of the tower, with the VHF just below the UHF, and radiate as follows:

Channel ERP Beamwidth
12 5-kW 90°
32 230-kW 70°

Apparently, the antennas have been mounted facing Manhattan North and will be moved to face Manhattan East Monday night.

Bill Beam has requested that folks monitoring these broadcasts send him their reception conditions and address, and (if their TVs display it) relative signal strength between the two WTC channels (12.10 and 32.10) and adjacent channels from ESB (WPIX-11, WNET-13, WPXN-31 and WCBS-33) at [email protected].

I hope to keep you updated as the tests progress, especially regarding antenna pointing changes – some of you do not live east of Manhattan and may have to wait for the antennas to be moved in your general direction before these transmissions can be received well, if at all. As for me, I live in Sea Cliff on Long Island, nearly 20 air miles from Manhattan and just outside the -3dB plot for the antennas, and both stations came in strong there last Friday night.

Please spread the word to people you think would be interested in monitoring these transmissions and providing feedback.

Thanks


Tom


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## Giacomo Siffredi

*HISTORICAL PROGRAMMING ON AN HISTORICAL TEST FACILITY*​
Test transmissions once again commenced on both RF 12 and RF 32 at 11:30PM tonight at approximately half-strength and were brought up to full-power at 11:31PM. All other programming and technical parameters appear comparable to my prior report here.

Therefore, the historical final airing of "Late Show with David Letterman", Season 22 Episode 149, will be airing in the New York City market on WCBS-TV New York, WCBS-LD Plainview, and on the historical test facility WPXN-TV New York, RF 32!


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## uhfyagi

Been watching the fugitive binge on decades 2.2. Just noticed that the episodes are being showned edited or being cutup I guess for time constrainment, that being said is sort of deceiving us ota viewers not being warned about this action taken. Anyone else noticed this? back to signal testing being done on freedom tower, to me this location is definitely a lot more challenging to receive than at the ESB. Just my 2 cents. everybody have great weekend.


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## dvdchance

uhfyagi said:


> Been watching the fugitive binge on decades 2.2. Just noticed that the episodes are being showned edited or being cutup I guess for time constrainment, that being said is sort of deceiving us ota viewers not being warned about this action taken. Anyone else noticed this? back to signal testing being done on freedom tower, to me this location is definitely a lot more challenging to receive than at the ESB. Just my 2 cents. everybody have great weekend.


What shows give a warning about being edited for time? Movies used to back in the day, but TV shows. An example is Seinfeld which in syndication gets edited. I don't recall any notice.


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## uhfyagi

dvdchance said:


> What shows give a warning about being edited for time? Movies used to back in the day, but TV shows. An example is Seinfeld which in syndication gets edited. I don't recall any notice.


Guess you're right, but I was taken back, looking for a certain scene on the fuge, and only not to be shown, btw I can watch the whole unedited episodes on YouTube. Hoping that Decades shows more lost or forgotten TV series, love to see the Time Tunnel or Wild Wild West, Land of the Giants have not seeing the latter since it was originally on ABC.


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## NYC10033

I lost 4-1 and 4-2. Anyone else see the same thing?


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## unsmiley

I see BUZZR TV is coming to our area soon, in the slot formerly occupied by 9-3 Bounce TV. This will be an old game show network.


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## Giacomo Siffredi

WWOR-TV Secaucus has reactivated its -3 subchannel. WWOR-DT3 (RF 38-5/Virtual 9-3) transmits a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Buzzr* on virtual channel 9-3. Language is English. Program guide information and date/time is accurate.

The network is presently in a soft-launch mode, airing various game shows with promos for the network in lieu of traditional spots. The official launch is scheduled for 8:00PM EDT. tonight.


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## uhfyagi

How bout giving us retro tv? Heroes &a icons, tuff TV. Come on allready


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## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> How bout giving us retro tv? Heroes &a icons, tuff TV. Come on allready


Nope. None of those are currently on the menu. Instead, how about some international cuisines?


*WASA-LD Port Jervis Adds SinoVision Channel Suite*

In what is the first major revision of its digital subchannel lineup in over four years, Lieberman Broadcasting's WASA-LD Port Jervis (RF 25/Virtual 24) has added a new .5 subchannel, removed one programming service, and added two new programming services.

WASA-LD, the New York City market affiliate of *estrella TV* in high-definition carried on its primary channel, has revamped its channel lineup in a bold move which maintains the aforesaid *estrella TV *(24-1), also maintains ICN CH (24-2), adds *SinoVision English Channel* (24-3), adds *SinoVision Chinese* (24-4), and moves the *estrella TV* SD feed to new subchannel 24-5. ICN TV's English service, formerly on 24-3, is the lone casualty, having been dropped from the station.

It was April 2011 when WASA-LD last revised its subchannel lineup substantially. It was then when the ICN TV channel suite was added on 23-2 and 23-4. Two years later, in May 2013, the standard-definition feed of *estrella TV* was added on then newly added subchannel 24-4.

Technical specifications: All streams transmit a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel names as follows:

24-1: WASA-HD
24-2: ICN CH
24-3: WASA.3
24-4: WASA-SD
24-5: WASA.5

Language is English. Program guide information is unavailable and date/time is inaccurate.

The addition of the SinoVision channel suite duplicates its availability in this market, at least for now. Both channels are simultaneously available on WMBC-TV Newton (RF 18/Virtual 63) on subchannels 63-3 and 63-4. However, WMBC-TV, whose transmitter is situated in Little Falls, NJ., may present some deficiencies for OTA viewers in areas east in the market, and those viewers may benefit from the surprisingly strong "low-power" 15kW signal which WASA-LD transmits from 4 Times Square in Manhattan, NY. Whether the SinoVision channel suite will remain on both stations, and if so for how long, is presently uncertain.

What is certain is that the past several months have proven very active for broadcast television and its audience in the nation's #1 media market.​


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## uhfyagi

We need English speaking TV stations, sans espanol, look at Philly ota lineup they have more ota stations like retro,tufftv,heroes icons, this is smaller market than us, don't get me started with LA TV stations we're not even close to half of the number of ota stations they carry. NY sucks


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## NYPokerface

uhfyagi said:


> How bout giving us retro tv? Heroes &a icons, tuff TV. Come on allready


Retro TV is on WKOB 42.7. It's not a great signal but I get it most of the time.


----------



## d3193

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> WWOR-TV Secaucus has reactivated its -3 subchannel. WWOR-DT3 (RF 38-5/Virtual 9-3) transmits a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio.


Does anyone know the value to a broadcaster of using a 4:3 static aspect-ratio? Does it use less bandwidth? Is there some other up-side?
Being a static aspect-ratio it prevents the airing of full-screen 16:9 material (and there have to be at least some commercials in that format).


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Technical specifications: All streams transmit a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel names as follows:
> 
> 24-1: WASA-HD
> 24-2: ICN CH
> 24-3: WASA.3
> 24-4: WASA-SD
> 24-5: WASA.5​



I have to make one correction to my post. I erroneously stated that "all" streams transmit with those technical parameters. Instead, I should have said that all the subchannels transmit as such, with the exception of the primary on 24-1.

24-1: WASA-HD transmits a 720p stream with a 16:9 dynamic aspect-ratio.
​ Please excuse the error.


d3193 said:


> Does anyone know the value to a broadcaster of using a 4:3 static aspect-ratio? Does it use less bandwidth? Is there some other up-side?
> Being a static aspect-ratio it prevents the airing of full-screen 16:9 material (and there have to be at least some commercials in that format).


Bandwidth is the primary reason. Lieberman is very likely compensated by in some manner to provide WASA-LD's Port Jervis and NYC metro area viewers the third-party content produced by ICN and now SinoVision; Lieberman owns estrella TV.

WASA-LD has their encoder set to transmit its various streams using variable bitrate. When allocating bandwidth, Lieberman is most generous with its HD primary and, at least until this recent change, its SD counterpart. Meanwhile, the two ICN streams, both in 480i SD, were essentially tossed breadcrumbs with which to work. I will presume the same arrangement presently exists for the SinoVision streams.

Most likely in the case for this station, any 16:9 content would already be downconverted to 4:3. The end result for the viewer would be seeing the full screen either letterboxed or pillarboxed.


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## LenL

Lets call a spade a spade and stop using the term "RETRO". We now have a plethora of reruns 24x7 on the dial. More than half of OTA is now dedicated to rerunning old stale programming. I for one am sick of seeing this crap! There is noting really interesting being done with OTA these days. Boring!


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## uhfyagi

Len I work with you, what about showing us more news and traffic and more cop shows?


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## NYota1

LenL said:


> Lets call a spade a spade and stop using the term "RETRO". We now have a plethora of reruns 24x7 on the dial. More than half of OTA is now dedicated to rerunning old stale programming. I for one am sick of seeing this crap! There is noting really interesting being done with OTA these days. Boring!


Speak for yourself. I'd give anything to have more of that "crap". Up here in the Albany area we only have MeTV & Antenna TV to supply us with "old stale programming". I still want more choices of it! 

By the way... what else would you suggest they program them with? Classic (or non-classic) reruns (and movies) were the perfect choice. First-run programming these days mainly consists of "scripted" reality TV...which is all cable or satellite offers. Is that what you want more of? Classic TV is the only genre left... and the perfect escape from today's roster of "entertainment".


----------



## LenL

NYota1 said:


> Speak for yourself. I'd give anything to have more of that "crap". Up here in the Albany area we only have MeTV & Antenna TV to supply us with "old stale programming". I still want more choices of it!
> 
> By the way... what else would you suggest they program them with? Classic (or non-classic) reruns (and movies) were the perfect choice. First-run programming these days mainly consists of "scripted" reality TV...which is all cable or satellite offers. Is that what you want more of? Classic TV is the only genre left... and the perfect escape from today's roster of "entertainment".



I am speaking for myself and anyone who feels the same. I happen to love PBS and MHz networks with their commercial free programming of Detective shows from Europe. 


Here is what I would like to see:


A real up to day 24 hour weather and traffic channel. Not the stale stuff CBS was doing on 2.2.


A real up to date 24 hour sports channel with scores and highlights.


A channel with more European comedy and mystery shows.


A cooking channel. 


I go into my doctors office and there is a health channel with all kinds of information on various health issues and recipes for meal. How about more of that.


A channel taking the best of cable like the history channel etc and sending it OTA.


If your going to be a rerun OTA channel then show reruns of stuff from cable channels OTA viewers never saw before.


Just some ideas off the top of my head.


----------



## mets18

So basically you want cable without paying for it.


----------



## NYota1

LenL said:


> I am speaking for myself and anyone who feels the same. I happen to love PBS and MHz networks with their commercial free programming of Detective shows from Europe.
> 
> 
> Here is what I would like to see:
> 
> 
> A real up to day 24 hour weather and traffic channel. Not the stale stuff CBS was doing on 2.2.
> 
> 
> A real up to date 24 hour sports channel with scores and highlights.
> 
> 
> A channel with more European comedy and mystery shows.
> 
> 
> A cooking channel.
> 
> 
> I go into my doctors office and there is a health channel with all kinds of information on various health issues and recipes for meal. How about more of that.
> 
> 
> A channel taking the best of cable like the history channel etc and sending it OTA.
> 
> 
> If your going to be a rerun OTA channel then show reruns of stuff from cable channels OTA viewers never saw before.
> 
> 
> Just some ideas off the top of my head.


Okay I'll concede... the top of your head has some fresh ideas! But you know how these networks operate, they'll claim there are legal rebroadcasting issues with bringing cable shows OTA. But, just your luck, it would end up being reruns of Storage Wars instead of the History channel. 

Personally, I think 24hr weather and traffic are "yesterday" as far as local TV is concerned. Weather is all over the net and on your cell phone too. On local TV, it can't be "live" 24/7. It's canned or nothing. Morning, noon & night newscasts are excluded. 

The European idea is good, but again I can see networks with broadcasting rights throwing up more roadblocks than the Amazing Race contestants get. 

I'll admit though when supplemented with the present channels, a good OTA variety would give a lot of viewers more reason to cut the cord.


----------



## LenL

mets18 said:


> So basically you want cable without paying for it.


Not really when you think about it clearly and realize just about every program and station YOU are currently viewing OTA is ON cable now! So we ARE watching cable and satellite now and NOT paying for it!

Funny how the Spanish stations are not doing rerun TV. There is a lot of new original programming that they are doing. Even the Chinese and Korean stations.


----------



## mets18

LenL said:


> Not really when you think about it clearly and realize just about every program and station YOU are currently viewing OTA is ON cable now! So we ARE watching cable and satellite now and NOT paying for it!
> 
> Funny how the Spanish stations are not doing rerun TV. There is a lot of new original programming that they are doing. Even the Chinese and Korean stations.


This comment makes no sense.


----------



## NYota1

LenL said:


> Not really when you think about it clearly and realize just about every program and station YOU are currently viewing OTA is ON cable now! So we ARE watching cable and satellite now and NOT paying for it!


I understand what you mean...but it's a bit of a stretch. Naturally the "locals" (or most of them) are on the cable dial...but nobody would subscribe if that's all they got. The purpose of having cable is to get "cable channels"... A&E, Discovery, Food Network, ESPN, Fox News, TCM,... etc... I don't consider myself watching cable when I have MeTV, or ABC on.


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## veedon

Interesting debate about the merits of OTA versus "cable" TV in terms of the quality of programming.

My two cents: In terms of reliability of reception, cable beats OTA (for most people), but the quality of programming on the "cable channels" has gone markedly downhill over the past ten or fifteen years, so cable TV is now a very bad value proposition. MTV no longer has music, and all of the good cooking shows have vanished from the Food Network. The History Channel is now pushing a sensationalistic and politicized agenda and is no longer willing to present true history documentaries.

In terms of value, public television stations cannot be beat. There are a lot of people toiling (without much monetary reward) to produce the shows that public TV stations air.


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## LenL

There are so many stations on cable that many are not viewed by most people. Cable probably gives them little money. Most of the people I know that have cable only view 10 stations or less. For the most part it is sports and then a handful of other stations.


I would suggest that some of those channels that get very little viewership could go OTA and more viewers and get a They can get a better return from advertisers.


----------



## veedon

LenL said:


> There are so many stations on cable that many are not viewed by most people. Cable probably gives them little money. Most of the people I know that have cable only view 10 stations or less. For the most part it is sports and then a handful of other stations.
> 
> 
> I would suggest that some of those channels that get very little viewership could go OTA and more viewers and get a They can get a better return from advertisers.


I don't understand how advertisers make their ad buying decisions nowadays. They appear to not care about anybody over the age of 49, and they don't seem to have much interest in any of the OTA diginets. 

Sometimes I go over to zap2it.com or MediaLife and look at some of the ratings for cable programming and broadcast programming. Me-TV, Bounce, and Cozi are the only OTA diginets that have publicly released Nielsen ratings. Their ratings are nowhere near the major broadcast networks or the ratings of the top cable shows in the 18-49 demographic. But Me-TV does sometimes outdraw the more minor cable channels in terms of total viewers.

Me-TV draws about the same amount of viewers as the Spanish language broadcast networks that are not Univision. That's still more viewers than some of the weaker cable channels. But maybe the viewers that the retro diginets draw are not free spending enough to interest traditional advertisers.

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/this-weeks-broadcast-ratings/

But the amazing thing is that one of the top draws for prime-time cable TV programming is pruhfeshunuhl rasslin. (OK, maybe I'm biased. I think Andy Kaufman was the greatest pro wrestler of all time.)


----------



## veedon

Regarding Len L's complaint about the OTA subchannels being devoted to diginets that carry "stale" programming from 40 or more years ago, I think it is just tough for a local broadcast station to secure the rights to more modern syndicated programming, especially stuff originally developed for a cable channel

I have seen only a few such shows ("Hot in Cleveland" and "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" come to mind) show up in broadcast syndication. There might be a couple of reasons for the dearth. First, the content owners may not want to undercut NetFlix and DVD sales.
Second, some of the shows would have to be edited to meet broadcast decency standards.


----------



## unsmiley

LenL said:


> Lets call a spade a spade and stop using the term "RETRO". We now have a plethora of reruns 24x7 on the dial. More than half of OTA is now dedicated to rerunning old stale programming. I for one am sick of seeing this crap! There is noting really interesting being done with OTA these days. Boring!


Stop being so crotchety about this... You never miss a beat criticizing the classic stations that many (but obviously not all) of us like and are thankful for.

I am actually happy when I see ANY new OTA channels, even ones in another language I don't understand, or stations I would never watch. The more the merrier, I say!


----------



## veedon

It would be nice if broadcasters would do a bit better job promoting their subchannels.
Look at how quickly the plug was pulled on LiveWell.
If you don't market your subchannel offerings, how can you expect to grow viewership?
I get the sense that local broadcasters have mixed feelings about the existence of subchannels.
They like getting a new revenue stream, but they are not inclined to promote the offerings very much, perhaps because they fear eclipsing the programming on the main channel.


----------



## n2ubp

I don't think I watch more than 5 different shows a week on OTA network TV when they are not in rerun mode. A nightly dose of NYC and national news if I can tolerate the doom and gloom, when available a decent PPV movie from DTV once and awhile, less that seem to interest me than what was around 5 or 10 years ago, back fill the dead air time with Dr Who, Nova, a few music specials, Brit series on PBS, some unseen travel shows, used to like a few shows on SciFi but they have drifted off my radar of late, wife likes some first run shows on USA and TNT, Murdock Mysteries on Ovation, otherwise nothing much tickles my fancy TV wise. What is missing that could be covered by OTA sub channels? News from my immediate region that is outside a 20 mile radius of NYC (they only come to Orange County for axe murders and big snow), local talent, local issues, shows that may not make the cut on x-1 but might be given a chance to blossom on x-2 or x-3. Secrets of NY was fun while it lasted. Reality shows are all so unreal and staged it's as bad as WWE. Tired of cable stations buying up one or two seasons of a show a block showing all them, back to back, every few days for a year. None of my suggestions are guaranteed audience draws, but what happened to taking a chance rather than sticking with worn out hits of the past.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hi LenL,


LenL said:


> Lets call a spade a spade and stop using the term "RETRO". We now have a plethora of reruns 24x7 on the dial. More than half of OTA is now dedicated to rerunning old stale programming. I for one am sick of seeing this crap! There is noting really interesting being done with OTA these days. Boring!


Have you visited the Facebook pages for these retro channels lately? There are some impressive statistics I will share.

The FB page for Antenna TV presently has 318,860 total page likes, an increase of 1.9% from last week.

The FB page for Cozi TV presently has 24,273 total page likes, an increase of 0.8% from last week.

The FB page for MeTV presently has 340,907 total page likes, an increase of 0.8% from last week.

Each of these networks targets an older-skewing audience, many of whom do not use social media. Therefore, when you add these figures to the traditional television-only viewers, it adds up to a significant percentage of the population for whom these stations provide needed and valuable programming content.


LenL said:


> I am speaking for myself and anyone who feels the same. I happen to love PBS and MHz networks with their commercial free programming of Detective shows from Europe.
> 
> 
> Here is what I would like to see:
> 
> 
> A real up to day 24 hour weather and traffic channel. Not the stale stuff CBS was doing on 2.2.


CBS was the best positioned major media corporation to create such a channel.

Locally, the company is the licensee of two highly profitable and highly rated 24/7/365 news radio stations, WCBS (880 AM) New York and WINS (1010 AM) New York. Every week, the company produces over 26 hours of local newscasts for their CBS flagship television station, WCBS-TV New York. The company repackages those newscasts for commonly-owned WLNY-TV Riverhead, and airs a 60-minute newscast each night on that station.

Given that wealth of experience and commitment to news programming, If CBS couldn't make a go of the news wheel format pioneered by CNN2, which later became CNN Headline News, what makes you believe that any other company could/would produce a better product?

As to a channel that delivers strict traffic and weather 24/7/365, Cablevision already produces their own version. It is in such high demand that the company sends the channel "Clear To Air" to their video subscribers 


LenL said:


> A real up to date 24 hour sports channel with scores and highlights.


And where would the audience for this channel be found? Most professional sporting events are exclusive to cable/satellite. ESPN is exclusive to cable/satellite. Accordingly, sports fans are tethered to their pay TV providers. A sports channel such as you describe would be a lone voice in a wilderness in which nearly all sports has been banished. The endeavor would also be very expensive to produce, as I am guessing you would like to see on-air anchors available round-the-clock to discuss and report any sporting news that would break domestically and internationally.


LenL said:


> A channel with more European comedy and mystery shows.


Without question, PBS, in conjunction with its relationship with the BBC, is best positioned to create such a diginet.

I happen to think that the NJTV stations are not using their broadcasting bandwidth to its fullest potential. Most New Jersey viewers cannot receive WLIW Garden City, and that station has two quality PBS subchannels, *Create* and *World*. But if, for whatever reason, rebroadcasting these diginets is not an option for NJTV, a channel such as you describe would fill a void and would be culturally relevant.

On the other hand, you might wind up eating your own words if PBS ever decides to create a retro channel of their own airing reruns of Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, Sesame Street, NOVA, Masterpiece Theater, and weekends filled with BBC comedy reruns 


LenL said:


> A cooking channel.


That would be a highly niched format. The best opportunity for that was ABC's recently decommissioned Live Well Network, and we all know how well that turned out. Again, the expense of producing new content for such a venture would be prohibitive. If such a channel were created, it would likely be programmed with reruns of past and present cable and OTA cooking shows.


LenL said:


> I go into my doctors office and there is a health channel with all kinds of information on various health issues and recipes for meal. How about more of that.


As intriguing as sitting down to dinner while watching a gastric bypass surgery or learning the best ways to relieve constipation would probably be, I don't know if such programming would draw a huge audience or significant ad revenue. I would also guess that most of the spots on such a channel would be PI ads, likely promoting life insurance, medical devices, and more life insurance.


LenL said:


> A channel taking the best of cable like the history channel etc and sending it OTA.
> 
> If your going to be a rerun OTA channel then show reruns of stuff from cable channels OTA viewers never saw before.


Many of the retro shows you seem to be bemoaning did at one point air on cable channels. Nick at Nite and its successor TV Land aired several of the shows presently being shown OTA. There were other cable channels, such as CBN/The Family Channel and Disney, which aired other classic sitcoms.

Then there are/were cable movie channels, such as American Movie Classics formerly and Turner Classic Movies presently which air retro movies. And newer movies presently being shown OTA used to air on the premium cable movie channels.

So, while you are correct that it would be unique to see a fresh new idea on TV, the reality is that the production costs and realized revenues on any endeavor have to be carefully weighed before implementing a large-scale project that might net a zero-gain.

_Think about this_: Live Well Network was replaced by Laff.


----------



## LenL

I still get Live Well so saying it is gone or replaced by Laff is nonsense. The fact is... it is still on the air. It may be going but to say it is now replaced is not true.


Yes there are lots of reasons my suggestions for new content OTA won't fly. I already knew that but I can vent about what is needed to freshen up OTA can't I?


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## LenL

For those of you looking for or considering getting a good OTA DVR, Channel Master is running a one day sale on their DVR+ this Monday. Just go to their website and check it out.


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## dstoffa

uhfyagi said:


> Been watching the fugitive binge on decades 2.2. Just noticed that the episodes are being showned edited or being cutup I guess for time constrainment, that being said is sort of deceiving us ota viewers not being warned about this action taken. Anyone else noticed this?





uhfyagi said:


> Guess you're right, but I was taken back, looking for a certain scene on the fuge, and only not to be shown, btw I can watch the whole unedited episodes on YouTube.


While I cannot write that I've noticed this exact type of behavior, I can write that I've discussed this with co-workers.

I subscribe to Netflix. And on Netflix, you can watch shows as they originally aired. Each episode is listed with its running time.

Here is something to ponder... The lengths of these 1-hour shows are as follows:
Mission Impossible (1966), 50 minutes
Star Trek Voyager (1995), 45 minutes, ended its run at 43 minutes
Lost (2004), 43 minutes

It's safe to assume that running time of originally broadcast OTA shows has been reduced by 15-20 percent in order to air more commercials. This of course doesn't even consider the "credits time" that is now not really credits, but a promo for another show.

I am sure that edits have been made to older shows to fit them into the cuurent viewing model (43-45 minutes of show, 15-17 minutes of commercials).


Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


I've said it before and I think you might agree. While CBS has a wealth of news resources at its disposal from radio to TV, it never quite got their all news TV subchannel 2.2 programmed the way anyone with half a brain would have done. How can you run and all news channel with yesterdays news and sports 24 hours a day. I tuned in to get the latest sports scores and would see yesterdays scores still posted. The weather was not updated. The news was the same material over and over. There was no detail, no in depth reporting. It failed because it was just a bad production. The idea was good. If it was done well it would have succeeded.


I just saw for the first time the term being used by some of you....digi-net. I have no idea what the term means and a quick check on the internet got me no definition. Can some forum poster define it for me?


----------



## veedon

LenL said:


> Giacomo,
> I just saw for the first time the term being used by some of you....digi-net. I have no idea what the term means and a quick check on the internet got me no definition. Can some forum poster define it for me?


A "diginet" is a television network born after the advent of digital broadcasting and whose purpose is to provide subchannel programming to its local broadcast affiliates. (There are a few stations, such as WJLP, that have a diginet as the station's primary network affiliation, but those cases are rare.)

Think back to the beginning days of analog broadcasting, back in the 1940's and 1950's. Local stations could air their own programming, stuff that was produced at their own studios. But they began to see that it was more efficient and cost productive to affiliate with a network such as CBS, NBC, DuMont, and ABC.

Now, in the digital age, we have diginets such as MeTV, AntennaTV, and Bounce. The question is how many will survive and how many will go the way of DuMont.


----------



## re_nelson

veedon said:


> Now, in the digital age, we have diginets such as MeTV, AntennaTV, and Bounce. The question is how many will survive and how many will go the way of DuMont.


On a side note, I've seen the case made that the Fox network is the reincarnation of DuMont. It's New York flagship was WABD (Allen B. Dumont) and its Washington facility still bears the calls of WTTG (Thomas T. Goldsmith, VP and Research Director). Even the Fox building on 67th Street was the former DuMont Tele-Centre.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hi LenL 


LenL said:


> I still get Live Well so saying it is gone or replaced by Laff is nonsense. The fact is... it is still on the air. It may be going but to say it is now replaced is not true.
> 
> Yes there are lots of reasons my suggestions for new content OTA won't fly. I already knew that but I can vent about what is needed to freshen up OTA can't I?


Absolutely to both.

It had been reported that Live Well Network would not produce any new material effective April 15, 2015. The network's production was actually a collaborative effort among the ABC O&O stations. I think that concept is good. Unfortunately, whether due to ineffective execution, lack of viewer interest, or subpar revenues realized, or just dumb executives, ABC decided to end the diginet, yet keep a zombie version around for an indefinite period of time. Basically doing the SOAPnet thing, which is quite appropriate given that both Live Well and SOAPnet, now Disney Junior, are commonly owned by Disney-ABC.

There is a benefit to the sudden explosion of retro-based programming. Were it not for this new venue, the digital subchannel, most of this programming - the foundation of television - would probably be forgotten about.

All one needs to do is look at TV listings during the early 2000s to understand this. It was rare that any broadcast station would broadcast a black & white TV show or movie. Even in New York City, WPIX was giving "The Honeymooners" short-shrift, and the station completely cut-loose "Star Trek", "The Odd Couple", "The Twilight Zone", and many other pre-1980s series.

Whether or not future generations will appreciate or even sample any of this retro programming is uncertain, but I for one am glad to see this programming where it originated - on the broadcast television airwaves.

It is much better living there than being reduced to a brief entry in a dusty thick book about Television


LenL said:


> Giacomo,
> 
> 
> I've said it before and I think you might agree. While CBS has a wealth of news resources at its disposal from radio to TV, it never quite got their all news TV subchannel 2.2 programmed the way anyone with half a brain would have done. How can you run and all news channel with yesterdays news and sports 24 hours a day. I tuned in to get the latest sports scores and would see yesterdays scores still posted. The weather was not updated. The news was the same material over and over. There was no detail, no in depth reporting. It failed because it was just a bad production. The idea was good. If it was done well it would have succeeded.


Without question, the execution was poor. CBS New York+ was an effort of haste, thanks to some of the folks at the FCC. If you recall back in 2011, the FCC was dropping not-so-subtle hints to broadcasters to "use it or lose it", referring to their 6-MHz of bandwidth. Not to six units of another measure of other devices. And that message was clearly being directed at CBS, who up until that point bucked the diginet trend by many independent and network broadcasters by transmitting one 1080i HD stream over all of the CBS O&O stations. Nonetheless, being threatened with losing a very valuable resource, CBS made a pre-emptive internal decision to carve out a tiny portion of bandwidth and throw together the elements that would become CBS Plus. In my best Paul Harvey voice, now you know the _*rest*_ of the story.

But as the facts established, viewers were not demanding this type of programming. In today's environment, it is hard enough to get viewers to watch a serious half-hour newscast. This is why news directors drop all this crap into it, such as Justin Bieber, Lindsey Lohan, Mr./Ms. Jenner, Kim Kardashian, and other hot trends of the day which may or may not include activism journalism. With a generally dumbed-down population, now try to get those same people to sit down and watch a news wheel - in Standard Definition.

With that being said, CBS made itself look foolish by running outdated packages and sports and weather graphics. Nothing on television screamed IDGAF louder than that endeavor. It could have worked better, but I don't know that it ultimately would have worked.

That diginet's successor, DECADES, is a far superior product despite its ever-changing daily schedule.


LenL said:


> I just saw for the first time the term being used by some of you....digi-net. I have no idea what the term means and a quick check on the internet got me no definition. Can some forum poster define it for me?


Diginet is a portmanteau combining the words "Digital" and "Network" which establishes that programming airing on a singular vehicle (stream or subchannel) is non-traditional network programming because of the manner in which it is transmitted to the population.

Essentially, a Diginet is not a traditional network because the programming airs subserviently to the main channels and usually airs 24/7/365. Traditional networks are carried over the main stream and take (by schedule or force) certain time-blocks from their affiliates to air network programming or special programming.

The term Diginet refers to programming content, while the terms stream and sub-channel refer to the technical aspects of broadcasting.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Were it not for this new venue, the digital subchannel, most of this programming - the foundation of television - would probably be forgotten about.
> 
> All one needs to do is look at TV listings during the early 2000s to understand this. It was rare that any broadcast station would broadcast a black & white TV show or movie. Even in New York City, WPIX was giving "The Honeymooners" short-shrift, and the station completely cut-loose "Star Trek", "The Odd Couple", "The Twilight Zone", and many other pre-1980s series.


But the "retro" diginets are starting to move away from B&W programming. AntennaTV airs B&W shows only during late-night and daytime hours, not during prime time. Me-TV still seems more willing to air some of the B&W shows.

Not all old programming is truly classic. (The true classics, such as _The Twilight Zone_ and _Burns and Allen_ are few in number.) A lot of it is junk, but yesterday's junk was better than most of today's junk, so I'm grateful for the existence of the retro channels. I think AntennaTV is a better channel than cable's TVLand.

In some ways, the retro diginets and the movie diginets remind me of the kind of programming that independent stations such as WOR and Chicago's WGN were showing back in the 1970's. (But where are Speed Racer and Ultra-Man?)

Still, I miss the days when there was more locally produced content available on TV.


----------



## NYota1

veedon said:


> It would be nice if broadcasters would do a bit better job promoting their subchannels.
> Look at how quickly the plug was pulled on LiveWell.
> If you don't market your subchannel offerings, how can you expect to grow viewership?
> I get the sense that local broadcasters have mixed feelings about the existence of subchannels.
> They like getting a new revenue stream, but they are not inclined to promote the offerings very much, perhaps because they fear eclipsing the programming on the main channel.


Yes it's interesting that you mention that. I've noticed that most TV station websites have no mention on their site of any sub-channels they may offer. On a couple, I've seen a MeTV logo/link ... but most don't seem to acknowledge their existence. It's frustrating, because our ABC affiliate only JUST removed LWN last week. Now it's a blank channel. Are they going to replace it?? Who knows. They certainly don't "broadcast" the removal...or make mention of it in any way.


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## dstoffa

NYota1 said:


> Yes it's interesting that you mention that. I've noticed that most TV station websites have no mention on their site of any sub-channels they may offer. On a couple, I've seen a MeTV logo/link ... but most don't seem to acknowledge their existence. It's frustrating, because our ABC affiliate only JUST removed LWN last week. Now it's a blank channel. Are they going to replace it?? Who knows. They certainly don't "broadcast" the removal...or make mention of it in any way.


Well, I will say that I was watching a movie on THIS, and there were commercials run that promote shows on the main -1 channel...


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## NYota1

dstoffa said:


> Well, I will say that I was watching a movie on THIS, and there were commercials run that promote shows on the main -1 channel...


Our MeTV channel promotes the local news that airs on the main affiliate...but I'm not aware of the promotions going both ways. The same affiliate also operates Antenna TV here, and I don't recall seeing the same promos on that channel.


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## PaulFrancis

"Still, I miss the days when there was more locally produced content available on TV."



I agree. Local programming was a treat to watch in the past. News programs such as Like It Is with Gil Noble and The Joe Franklin Show. Kids programming like The Magic Garden....I can go on and on, but there is a nice feel about programming that we, as Tri-Staters, can understand and relate to. WNYC seems to be the only channel that grasps this idea...oh, and maybe Talk Stoop on Cozi.


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## a72849

*WCBS-DT Outage*

My Zenith DTT 901 did not receive WCBS last night around 9 through this morning. It is working now. Did anyone else notice an outage or was the problem on my end? Best Regards, John


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## Trip in VA

Something was going on (or off, as the case may be). http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WCBS-TV

- Trip


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## PaulFrancis

Same here. No CBS or Decades.


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## dstoffa

Trip in VA said:


> Something was going on (or off, as the case may be). http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WCBS-TV
> 
> - Trip


Johnny must have pulled the plug...


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## uhfyagi

Great movie airplane, but I thought Lloyd bridges was over the top!


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## NYPokerface

Looks like something is going on with WKOB. The channels aren't broadcasting on 42 but are now on channel 2. Plus they have added two subchannels. The first one is running a program called forecast earth in a 1 hour loop and the second channel is just broadcasting the audio of the program.


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## dstoffa

uhfyagi said:


> Great movie airplane, but I thought Lloyd bridges was over the top!


You should watch "Zero Hour". Your love of Airplane! will double...


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## reddice

NYPokerface said:


> Looks like something is going on with WKOB. The channels aren't broadcasting on 42 but are now on channel 2. Plus they have added two subchannels. The first one is running a program called forecast earth in a 1 hour loop and the second channel is just broadcasting the audio of the program.


42's on 2. 
Sorry I had to say it. I remember this happened years ago and whenever I would sometime do a rescan WKOB would show up which was annyoing because it was so breif that when I wanted to go to WCBS I would get a low signal message and had to press up a few times to get to WCBS. I hope this is fixed and the virtual channel goes back on 42.


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## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey NYPokerface and all 


NYPokerface said:


> Looks like something is going on with WKOB. The channels aren't broadcasting on 42 but are now on channel 2. Plus they have added two subchannels. The first one is running a program called forecast earth in a 1 hour loop and the second channel is just broadcasting the audio of the program.


Perhaps you tuned in to WKOB-LD immediately after the subchannel realignment took place, or your tuner was experiencing low-signal or a PSIP error.

Either way, the station is presently using virtual channel 42.

The two additional subchannels added are 42-8 and 42-9. This marks the first time WKOB-LD has used these virtual subchannel numbers. However, I do not have the ability to analyze the streams to determine if the new virtual assignments correlate to the RF assignments, as has been the historical practice with this station.

Technical specifications: All streams transmit a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel names as follows:

42-1: IQRA
42-2: DAYSTAR
42-3: PEACETV
42-4: GUIDEUS
42-5: SONLIFE
42-6: MCBN
42-8: ONTV4U
42-9: WKOB-LD

Language is English. Program guide information is unavailable and date/time is accurate.

Programming specifications: As the current iteration shows, 42-7 "Retro" has been dropped from the lineup. This marks the second time this diginet has been removed from the WKOB-LD lineup; Retro Television Network (RTV) was last cut from the station on September 26, 2011.

Two new subchannels have been added. 42-8 is presently named "ONTV4U". This formerly aired on WKOB-LD on 42-6 until it was replaced with MiCasa Network. OnTV4U airs infomercials in Spanish. However, that programming is not airing over 42-8. Instead, as NYPokerface reported, a program called "forecast earth: Storm Stories", produced by The Weather Channel, without spots or station ID, is being looped. The video quality is poor, appearing to be suffering from a low bitrate either from the source or by way of the WKOB-LD encoder. The audio is terrible; the volume is extremely low and the quality makes it practically inaudible. 42-9 is presently named "WKOB-LD". There is no video airing on this stream, and the audio content as well as quality is the same as the 42-8 stream.

It should be noted that the PSIP names were changed on all of the subchannels, except for 42-1 and 42-6.

It would appear that these programming changes are not intended to be permanent, and that a plan is in place at least to restore OnTV4U to the WKOB-LD lineup soon.


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## Aero 1

although i dont get WKOB but out of curiosity, is RetroTV still off the air? has there been any official word as to why its off the air?


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## uhfyagi

retro still showing programs, be it is not as pronounced as Metv or other subs. I can only receive it during the day as the evening there is street lamp post a short distance from my outdoor setup.


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## NYPokerface

Aero 1 said:


> although i dont get WKOB but out of curiosity, is RetroTV still off the air? has there been any official word as to why its off the air?


WKOB is coming in perfectly for me today. But it's still on channel 2 for me and Retro TV is still gone.


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## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> retro still showing programs, be it is not as pronounced as Metv or other subs. I can only receive it during the day as the evening there is street lamp post a short distance from my outdoor setup.


uhfyagi can still receive Retro because he is watching WKOB-LD via a very unique E-Skip, the kind that can only be received in The Twilight Zone.


NYPokerface said:


> WKOB is coming in perfectly for me today. But it's still on channel 2 for me and Retro TV is still gone.


_*Question for NYPokerface*_: Does each subchannel have a name? For example, are you seeing 2-1 with the name "IQRA"? If the answer is yes, could you please post in a list form each subchannel number and the name associated with that subchannel?


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## NYPokerface

_*Question for NYPokerface*_: Does each subchannel have a name? For example, are you seeing 2-1 with the name "IQRA"? If the answer is yes, could you please post in a list form each subchannel number and the name associated with that subchannel?[/QUOTE]

I just checked my other TV and it's switching over to 42 with all names you listed in your previous post. 

It's odd my tv always switched to 42 unless I got a weak signal. It then would bring it back to channel 2. So far there haven't been any names associated with the WKOB channels.


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## uhfyagi

NYPokerface said:


> _*Question for NYPokerface*_: Does each subchannel have name? For example, are you seeing 2-1 with the name "IQRA"? If the answer is yes, could you please post in a list form each subchannel number and the name associated with that subchannel?


I just checked my other TV and it's switching over to 42 with all names you listed in your previous post. 

It's odd my tv always switched to 42 unless I got a weak signal. It then would bring it back to channel 2. So far there haven't been any names associated with the WKOB channels.[/QUOT

What brand of stb are using for ota? some stb's tuner are alot more sensetive than other. Zenith 901 is considered top performer.


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## Giacomo Siffredi

Hi NYPokerface,


NYPokerface said:


> I just checked my other TV and it's switching over to 42 with all names you listed in your previous post.
> 
> It's odd my tv always switched to 42 unless I got a weak signal. It then would bring it back to channel 2. So far there haven't been any names associated with the WKOB channels.


I have had this experience also, particularly with WKOB-LD. When enough signal is lost so as not to decode, some tuners automatically display the actual RF channel number, absent the PSIP information. Presumably, when this happens for you, there will be no PSIP short names or programming information to display.

This is a MAJOR flaw in the present ATSC system. The chief reason being that if a signal gets weak enough for a tuner to lose the decode, the tuner may "forget" the virtual designation, and instead relocate the channel to its RF position. Subsequently, when the viewer (who may be unaware of the occurrence) attempts to tune the virtual channel, they will be brought instead to the RF channel, which of course will result in them being temporarily unable to view the desired channel.

I can personally attest to multiple occasions which I have experienced this. Most of them have been with WKOB-LD, but it has also occurred with other stations, including WCBS-TV New York and WNJU Linden.

The average viewer is not so technically educated to understand why the channel they are attempting to tune has suddenly disappeared, and the methods available to them for how they may conduct a quick search for it. In a worse-case scenario, this could result in viewers being deprived of potentially vital information, such as in emergency situations involving dangerous weather or terrorism.

The current PSIP system, while generally reliable, is not nearly reliable enough. And seeing as we are now six years into the new TV broadcasting standard, this major flaw is simply unacceptable.

It is due in some part to the experience you have shared and which I am very familiar that I take certain positions on issues, such as the WJLP Middletown Township matter, which involve maintaining a channels RF position whenever possible.

A security fence is only as strong as its weakest point for exploitation. The current ATSC standard, with respect to PSIP information, is inadequate and the fault lies both with broadcasters, some of whom fail altogether to address or maintain the information they transmit, and the FCC which fails to mandate that broadcasters do same. Despite the heavy MSTV penetration, particularly in major U.S. cities, OTA viewers should expect they are entitled to receive reliable information from local broadcasters.

Right now, the big priority for the U.S. congress, FCC, and some cash-hungry broadcasters is how to sell-off of some of the public airwaves. Once this expected boon for big business at the expense of the sheeple is over, broadcasters and the FCC should try to improve the inadequate ATSC system presently in place.


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## mikepier

I have not looked at my OTA channels in a while, but I notice now WLIW 21.2 Create is now 480i 16:9. And I believe 21.3 as well.

Did they do this a while ago or is this recent?


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## uhfyagi

NYota1 said:


> Yes it's interesting that you mention that. I've noticed that most TV station websites have no mention on their site of any sub-channels they may offer. On a couple, I've seen a MeTV logo/link ... but most don't seem to acknowledge their existence. It's frustrating, because our ABC affiliate only JUST removed LWN last week. Now it's a blank channel. Are they going to replace it?? Who knows. They certainly don't "broadcast" the removal...or make mention of it in any way.


why should they promote their sub channels? Most subs are not affiliate of the main channel, they just pay the rent. The real truth is that the networks have subs just to cater to low income population. They couldn't a f_ck about anybody,specially nbc/comcast.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> This is a MAJOR flaw in the present ATSC system. The chief reason being that if a signal gets weak enough for a tuner to lose the decode, the tuner may "forget" the virtual designation, and instead relocate the channel to its RF position. Subsequently, when the viewer (who may be unaware of the occurrence) attempts to tune the virtual channel, they will be brought instead to the RF channel, which of course will result in them being temporarily unable to view the desired channel.


It's a shame that there's not some way to load into a TV a list of all FCC-licensed stations within the local DMA and nearby DMA's. Then if a set cannot receive a particular signal, the viewer would at least know that the station is missing. It would be nice for TV owners to know something about the TV "landscape", so to speak. 

Many viewers don't even know the call letters of the stations in the local DMA. And they don't know what subchannels the stations are carrying or what the difference between a RF channel and a virtual channel number is. There needs to be a lot more education about the state of OTA broadcasting.


----------



## twobrain

*cant get fox (wnyw) 44 (5.1)?*

installed a rca yagi the other day. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=8230e753637b97

i can get 100 signal on nbc and abc. was running on old satellite coax was getting 86% on nbc and 100% on abc. tried a new coax and got 100% on nbc and still nothing on fox.

isnt hte fox broadcast from similar site? slighlty weaker signal but my tv is saying poor signal and doesnt even give me a percentage.

also on nbc, the audio drops out on commercials. i was running tos from the tv to my receiver. i just switched it over to rca so instead of the drop outs its just buzzing during the commercials.


----------



## ALP

twobrain said:


> installed a rca yagi the other day. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=8230e753637b97
> 
> i can get 100 signal on nbc and abc. was running on old satellite coax was getting 86% on nbc and 100% on abc. tried a new coax and got 100% on nbc and still nothing on fox.
> 
> isnt hte fox broadcast from similar site? slighlty weaker signal but my tv is saying poor signal and doesnt even give me a percentage.
> 
> also on nbc, the audio drops out on commercials. i was running tos from the tv to my receiver. i just switched it over to rca so instead of the drop outs its just buzzing during the commercials.


Where are you located and what type of antenna do you have?


----------



## n2ubp

twobrain said:


> installed a rca yagi the other day. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=8230e753637b97
> 
> i can get 100 signal on nbc and abc. was running on old satellite coax was getting 86% on nbc and 100% on abc. tried a new coax and got 100% on nbc and still nothing on fox.
> 
> isnt hte fox broadcast from similar site? slighlty weaker signal but my tv is saying poor signal and doesnt even give me a percentage.
> 
> also on nbc, the audio drops out on commercials. i was running tos from the tv to my receiver. i just switched it over to rca so instead of the drop outs its just buzzing during the commercials.


I think Fox is at the same site but different antenna setup.


----------



## twobrain

ALP said:


> Where are you located and what type of antenna do you have?


 Rca yagi and 07950. 26miles west of the broadcast


----------



## Aero 1

There are no Sinclair sations in nyc correct? this would be a nice addition.


http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/86528/mgm-sinclair-to-debut-scifi-diginet



> *MGM, Sinclair To Debut Sci*Fi Diginet
> *
> By Kevin Downey
> 
> TVNewsCheck, June 29, 2015 3:14 PM EDT
> 
> MGM and Sinclair Television Group this fall will launch a digital over*the*air network with science*fiction
> programming from the MGM library such as Dead Like Me and Stargate.
> The not*yet*named channel is so far cleared on stations reaching 30% of U.S. television homes with more
> expected to be announced.
> MGM will program the network.
> “We are excited to be partnering with MGM on the launch of the first*ever science fiction multi*channel
> network,” said David Amy, COO of Sinclair Broadcast Group, in a statement. “MGM has an extensive
> collection of science fiction films and television movies that appeal to a vast audience who will now be able
> to access that content through broadcast television.”


----------



## fredd

Channel 4 WNBC has been missing for over week here in central NJ. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> There are no Sinclair sations in nyc correct? this would be a nice addition.
> 
> 
> http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/86528/mgm-sinclair-to-debut-scifi-diginet


no I don't think so. perhaps giacomo or Trip can solve this mystery


----------



## ALP

fredd said:


> Channel 4 WNBC has been missing for over week here in central NJ. Anyone else experiencing this?


Here in northern Westchester with all the stormy weather this last week Channel 2 (CBS) has had a lot of drop outs during the storms. I actually have to switch to Channel 4 (NBC) during the storms to get news and weather.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

ALP said:


> Here in northern Westchester with all the stormy weather this last week Channel 2 (CBS) has had a lot of drop outs during the storms. I actually have to switch to Channel 4 (NBC) during the storms to get news and weather.


I know channel 2 has had many drop-outs this past week; trying to watch WKOB-LD New York has been near impossible 

As to the situation with WCBS-TV New York (RF channel 33), perhaps the unsettled atmospheric conditions have permitted WFSB Hartford (RF channel 33) to present destructive interference.

Destructive interference is substantially different from virtual interference; Meredith Corporation, the licensee of WFSB, is well-versed in the latter 



uhfyagi said:


> no I don't think so. perhaps giacomo or Trip can solve this mystery


Sinclair does not own any broadcast stations in the New York City market. The best hope for this new "science fiction" formatted diginet debuting in this market would be to sign an affiliation agreement with any willing television broadcast licensee. It is highly unlikely, at this time, that any television broadcast license in a major U.S. market would be on the market.


----------



## uhfyagi

fredd said:


> Channel 4 WNBC has been missing for over week here in central NJ. Anyone else experiencing this?


Noticed that Wpix ch11 has been off the air late at night or early morning, Cbs ch2 the previous nights, must be doing maintenance at esb :kiss:


----------



## Beruda

I just noticed today that channel 33.3 showed up. Right now it says test with the different color bars. Has anyone seen this or know anything about new programming?​


----------



## ALP

Beruda said:


> I just noticed today that channel 33.3 showed up. Right now it says test with the different color bars. Has anyone seen this or know anything about new programming?​


Yes, I get the same thing on 33.3, no idea what it is. 

Folks, For this thread it would really be nice if everyone listed their general location. I have a very directional antenna aimed right at the ESB. So if you are out on the island or off in western Jersey and are receiving some small channel chances are I will not see it. Thus, knowing were the poster is really helps.


----------



## Aero 1

Maybe they are adding a new sub. Heroes & icons perhaps.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WJLP Adds Second Subchannel: "Testing" on Virtual Channel 33-3*

As Beruda originally reported, WJLP Middletown Township has added a new subchannel, virtual channel 33-3.

Here are the specifics with respect to the programming and technical content:

WJLP-DT3 (RF 3-3/Virtual 33-3) transmits a 720p stream with a 16:9 dynamic aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Testing* on virtual channel 33-3. Language is English. Program guide information and date/time is accurate. The current program airing is _Testing HD Programming_. This is a 30-minute program which is looped at 00:00:00 and 00:30:00, or to put it more colloquially, at the top and bottom of each hour.

Presently airing on the new stream is an SMPTE RP 219:2002 HD and SD Compatible Color Bars test pattern with an accompanying 1 kHz sine wave audio tone.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> Maybe they are adding a new sub. Heroes & icons perhaps.


I saw TV guide it says heroes icons schedule so you won this guessing game. Lol


----------



## totalownership

uhfyagi said:


> I saw TV guide it says heroes icons schedule so you won this guessing game. Lol


The other day I saw that channel and it had footage from a dirt bike race going in HD. I wish I would have paid attention to the station logo on screen for you guys. I noticed it looked professional and similar to nbc's sports channel as far as bottom ticker goes. But oddly there were no commentators. But you could hear the sounds from the action.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

uhfyagi said:


> I saw TV guide it says heroes icons schedule so you won this guessing game. Lol


*Question to uhfyagi:* I have checked the TV Guide broadcast antenna listings and saw no reference to any stream attributed to WJLP other then _MeTV_ and _Justice_. Where are you seeing _Heroes & Icons_ as being listed for WJLP? Might you please provide a link confirming what you have reported?



totalownership said:


> The other day I saw that channel and it had footage from a dirt bike race going in HD. I wish I would have paid attention to the station logo on screen for you guys. I noticed it looked professional and similar to nbc's sports channel as far as bottom ticker goes. But oddly there were no commentators. But you could hear the sounds from the action.


The present "Testing" programming content and associated description specifically implies that WJLP is testing for an additional 720p HD stream. It is for this reason that, at present, I am questioning whether the new stream is intended for SD content, such as _Heroes & Icons_.

To be entirely fair, I am fully aware that _MeTV_ network programming is SD. However, WJLP produces all of its locally produced programming in HD, as well as airs certain PSAs in said format. And this content airs over the primary stream which, unlike subchannels such as the new WJLP-DT3, is subject to must-carry rules.

In the event whatever new content will be 720p HD, what additional programming services might WJLP be anticipated to carry? Or might this be a test to indicate whether the present WJLP facilities would be able to adequately carry two 720p streams. Say for example... WNYW and WWOR-TV?


----------



## uhfyagi

You calling me a liar Giacomo? Here is your proof, go to Google search for heroes icons schedule. You'll see schedule and listing for New York. Sorry I don't want to rough you up. Jk


----------



## PaulFrancis

From the TeeVeeGuyd (Facebook): - Me-TV3 New Jersey/New York is adding subchannel 33.3, but little details on what will be on the channel. Possibly Heroes & Icons? Will update if/when something definitive is announced.


----------



## Fritz

has anyone tried a helical for 14-69? We're ~35 miles east of CBS, NBC, ABC, NET, Fox and a lot of summer foliage is killing what little signal there is.
There don't seem to be any commercially made for residence anymore.


----------



## ALP

Fritz said:


> has anyone tried a helical for 14-69? We're ~35 miles east of CBS, NBC, ABC, NET, Fox and a lot of summer foliage is killing what little signal there is.
> There don't seem to be any commercially made for residence anymore.


Fritz, I am about 30 miles from the ESB, almost due north of it. I am on a south facing hill, however, I am sure there is summer foliage in my reception path. I really have no problems with a weak signal except for torrential rain when it occurs. I use a big Winegard on an eight foot mast which is on a two story flat roof. What antenna are you using right now?


----------



## PaulFrancis

OTA is a big pain in the a#&. Just when you think you've found yhe perfect spot and/or height for your antenna, there is always an issue with reception. Whether its foliage, atmospheric conditions, street lamps, ducting, airplanes, or buses rolling by, OTA is more time consuming than it's worth. 100% signal one day, to 0% the next with some channels. Channel 21 is impossible to get unless there us a second antenna. How I wish we could just go back to plain old analog signals...place the antenna-aim it-and forget it.


----------



## PaulFrancis

Oh, and I can live with a little ghosting, but pixelation? Yeeesh.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Aero 1 said:


> although i dont get WKOB but out of curiosity, is RetroTV still off the air? has there been any official word as to why its off the air?


Good news for New York City area fans of classic TV programming*! Retro TV* has returned to WKOB-LD New York at its most recent channel position, RF 2-7/Virtual 42-7. Given the fact that no explanation was proffered by either the station or the diginet, it is likely that the temporary outage was due to a technical issue. However, given the history with Luken Communications (Retro TV's owners) it is possible contractual/financial issues could have been the culprit.


uhfyagi said:


> You calling me a liar Giacomo? Here is your proof, go to Google search for heroes icons schedule. You'll see schedule and listing for New York. Sorry I don't want to rough you up. Jk


Regarding WJLP, subchannel 33-3 remains in apparent testing mode. Interestingly, one of my televisions cannot receive this new subchannel, even after deleting and re-adding WJLP.

For the record, there has been no official announcement regarding the intentions, if any, for this subchannel.

The other matter at WJLP, the virtual channel dispute, appears for now to be settled, with WJLP accepting virtual 33 for its broadcast signal. However, the station is requesting its audience contact the FCC and do this: https://www.facebook.com/metv3/phot....1437276332./1661943670684183/?type=3&theater

PMCM TV, LLC. will have an uphill battle with that campaign. The pay-TV provider, Cablevision, this week announced that on September 3, 2015 it will be adding WJLP on channel 33. In fact, Cablevision will not only be bumping Viacom-owned Nickelodeon from that channel position in mid-August 2015, the cable provider has undertaken the extraordinary task of implementing a major channel lineup overhaul in order to accommodate WJLP being added on channel 33.

Their new channel lineup overhaul is especially FCC-friendly, seeing as they will be grouping all networks which specialize in children's programming (such as Nickelodeon) into twelve consecutive virtual channels (120 through 131), which should significantly reduce the chance that their subscribers with under-18 years of age children will see any adult-oriented, objectionable, or offensive programming, and only be subjected to family-friendly wholesome programming.


----------



## speedlaw

*WCBS low power issues.*

CBS must be having issues. I get rock solid reception on the other channels, 75-98 % . CBS, however, is threshold. My Tivo can just lock it with 30 %. My older Sony TV won't lock it.

Antenna is OK, and other stations perfect. This happens a lot sunday am, and Mama isn't happy CBS This Morning is a pixel explosion parade.

Anyone else ?


----------



## SnellKrell

speedlaw said:


> CBS must be having issues. I get rock solid reception on the other channels, 75-98 % . CBS, however, is threshold. My Tivo can just lock it with 30 %. My older Sony TV won't lock it.
> 
> Antenna is OK, and other stations perfect. This happens a lot sunday am, and Mama isn't happy CBS This Morning is a pixel explosion parade.
> 
> Anyone else ?


Coming in loud and clear in the East 90s in Manhattan.


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> The other matter at WJLP, the virtual channel dispute, appears for now to be settled, with WJLP accepting virtual 33 for its broadcast signal. However, the station is requesting its audience contact the FCC and do this: https://www.facebook.com/metv3/phot....1437276332./1661943670684183/?type=3&theater
> 
> PMCM TV, LLC. will have an uphill battle with that campaign. The pay-TV provider, Cablevision, this week announced that on September 3, 2015 it will be adding WJLP on channel 33. In fact, Cablevision will not only be bumping Viacom-owned Nickelodeon from that channel position in mid-August 2015, the cable provider has undertaken the extraordinary task of implementing a major channel lineup overhaul in order to accommodate WJLP being added on channel 33.
> 
> ...


So WJLP (RF 3) won't get the Channel 3 slot on most cable systems.

Kind of sounds like New Jersey is getting dissed again, huh?
Do WCBS (marketed as Channel 2) and WNBC (marketed as Channel 4) have any Jersey-centric public affairs programming?

WJLP may have to start marketing itself as Channel 33 and accept that The Powers That Be regard it as a fringey little station that should accept a high channel number for marketing purposes and not hang out with the big boys. It's like the teenager that gets stuck sitting at the kiddie table during a big holiday meal.


----------



## ALP

speedlaw said:


> CBS must be having issues. I get rock solid reception on the other channels, 75-98 % . CBS, however, is threshold. My Tivo can just lock it with 30 %. My older Sony TV won't lock it.
> 
> Antenna is OK, and other stations perfect. This happens a lot sunday am, and Mama isn't happy CBS This Morning is a pixel explosion parade.
> 
> Anyone else ?


I am about 30 miles north of the ESB. I have a big Yagi Winegard antenna and an 8 way drop amp htat if I remember correctly gives me a two times signal boost on each branch. In good weather I have no problems with Channel 2 (we watch Channel 2 for our news and we watch it on Sunday morning). When it rains really hard (coming down in sheets of rain) I get Channel 2 dropping a lot and all other channels are fine. This happens any day of the week, rain being the determining factor not the day of the week. My guess is at 40 miles away from the source you need a better antenna or a better signal amp for Channel 2.


----------



## speedlaw

I use a Radio Shack copy of the Channelmaster 60, mounted high on the roof and pointed down river. We've optimized the direction as best possible. 

For me, the questionable signal is normally the channel 2 RF signal, (WKOB ?) which I get when the trees are bare but lose when spring arrives. 

I feed four sets and one stereo, without an amp. In my Ham Radio life, I can work NYC all the way to the Suffolk/Nassau border with minimal power on two meters, which is close to VHF Hi. I know my stuff works. CBS transmits from the same location the others do, so I can be sure my antenna is pointed correctly. My location is up on a hill, in green on TVFool, and all the other stations come in 78-95 %. I've seen no change whatsoever in signal strength for other channels.

I'm guessing they drop power occasionally for repairs. Right now, Monday AM July 20th, 
2-1 (RF 33) (off air, check antenna) Shows fluctuation but under 40%
4-1 (RF 28) 84%
5-1 (RF 44) 86%
7-1 (RF 7) 92%
9-1 (RF 38) 47% locks
11-1 (RF 11) 89%
13-1 (RF 13) 92%
25-1 (RF 24) 77%
33-1 (RF 3) 93%
68-3 (RF30) 71%

These values are typical for my system. The VHF signals are 90 % or better, the UHF signals are 70 % or better. WCBS is MIA. In the past, it was in the 80's like the nearby RF channels


----------



## ALP

speedlaw said:


> I use a Radio Shack copy of the Channelmaster 60, mounted high on the roof and pointed down river. We've optimized the direction as best possible.
> 
> For me, the questionable signal is normally the channel 2 RF signal, (WKOB ?) which I get when the trees are bare but lose when spring arrives.
> 
> I feed four sets and one stereo, without an amp. In my Ham Radio life, I can work NYC all the way to the Suffolk/Nassau border with minimal power on two meters, which is close to VHF Hi. I know my stuff works. CBS transmits from the same location the others do, so I can be sure my antenna is pointed correctly. My location is up on a hill, in green on TVFool, and all the other stations come in 78-95 %. I've seen no change whatsoever in signal strength for other channels.
> 
> I'm guessing they drop power occasionally for repairs. Right now, Monday AM July 20th,
> 2-1 (RF 33) (off air, check antenna) Shows fluctuation but under 40%
> 4-1 (RF 28) 84%
> 5-1 (RF 44) 86%
> 7-1 (RF 7) 92%
> 9-1 (RF 38) 47% locks
> 11-1 (RF 11) 89%
> 13-1 (RF 13) 92%
> 25-1 (RF 24) 77%
> 33-1 (RF 3) 93%
> 68-3 (RF30) 71%
> 
> These values are typical for my system. The VHF signals are 90 % or better, the UHF signals are 70 % or better. WCBS is MIA. In the past, it was in the 80's like the nearby RF channels


The problem has to be some where north of Pleasantville and where ever you are. I just did a quick check on my Channel 2 reception. Perfect! My Panni plasma TV says 100% signal strength and one of my Maggi DVR's says 90% (I realize these are not true signal strength readings at the antenna, but they mean I have plenty of signal strength from Channel 2).


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Veedon,


veedon said:


> So WJLP (RF 3) won't get the Channel 3 slot on most cable systems.
> 
> Kind of sounds like New Jersey is getting dissed again, huh?
> Do WCBS (marketed as Channel 2) and WNBC (marketed as Channel 4) have any Jersey-centric public affairs programming?
> 
> WJLP may have to start marketing itself as Channel 33 and accept that The Powers That Be regard it as a fringey little station that should accept a high channel number for marketing purposes and not hang out with the big boys. It's like the teenager that gets stuck sitting at the kiddie table during a big holiday meal.


The owners of WCBS-TV and WNBC have deep pockets. If they certify they air any Jersey-centric public affairs programming, the government has to accept for a fact that they air Jersey-centric public affairs programming.

Don't forget that WPXN-TV (RF 31) airs one hour of locally-oriented public service programming every Tuesday and Thursday morning at 6AM ET. Regardless of whether or not any New Jersey or New York cities and/or communities are referenced within that hour, the ION LIFE program is fully accepted by the FCC as contributing. Hopefully, this (and the fact that Cablevision carries WPXN-TV on channel 3) will increase the value of the RF 31 license if and when ION puts it up for auction. Should that license be successfully auctioned, the "free programming" the new licensee will place upon its frequencies will definitely help the community-of-license that WPXN-TV serves 

Yes, WJLP may have to start rebranding itself differently. Perhaps just as "MeTV New York". After all, it makes little difference now, seeing as they are for all intents and purposes prohibited from using any channel 3 branding without imposing on the legacies of KYW-TV and WFSB, the Hartford, CT. TV station that recently became a full-fledged member of the New York City DMA.

Personally, if I were the WJLP licensee, I would cease producing the locally-produced PA programs and rely on "Saved By The Bell" reruns to satisfy the E/I requirements. After all, watching "Saved By The Bell" is more entertaining then watching a sketchy and typically underhanded New Jersey politician shift in his seat as often as he/she shifts on a polarizing issue


----------



## mets18

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Good news for New York City area fans of classic TV programming*! Retro TV* has returned to WKOB-LD New York at its most recent channel position, RF 2-7/Virtual 42-7. Given the fact that no explanation was proffered by either the station or the diginet, it is likely that the temporary outage was due to a technical issue. However, given the history with Luken Communications (Retro TV's owners) it is possible contractual/financial issues could have been the culprit.
> 
> Regarding WJLP, subchannel 33-3 remains in apparent testing mode. Interestingly, one of my televisions cannot receive this new subchannel, even after deleting and re-adding WJLP.
> 
> For the record, there has been no official announcement regarding the intentions, if any, for this subchannel.
> 
> The other matter at WJLP, the virtual channel dispute, appears for now to be settled, with WJLP accepting virtual 33 for its broadcast signal. However, the station is requesting its audience contact the FCC and do this: https://www.facebook.com/metv3/phot....1437276332./1661943670684183/?type=3&theater
> 
> PMCM TV, LLC. will have an uphill battle with that campaign. The pay-TV provider, Cablevision, this week announced that on September 3, 2015 it will be adding WJLP on channel 33. In fact, Cablevision will not only be bumping Viacom-owned Nickelodeon from that channel position in mid-August 2015, the cable provider has undertaken the extraordinary task of implementing a major channel lineup overhaul in order to accommodate WJLP being added on channel 33.
> 
> Their new channel lineup overhaul is especially FCC-friendly, seeing as they will be grouping all networks which specialize in children's programming (such as Nickelodeon) into twelve consecutive virtual channels (120 through 131), which should significantly reduce the chance that their subscribers with under-18 years of age children will see any adult-oriented, objectionable, or offensive programming, and only be subjected to family-friendly wholesome programming.


It's a little silly that WCBS and WFSB are allowed to be on the same actual channel while WJLP and WFSB are not allowed to be on the same virtual channel, no?


----------



## uhfyagi

yep the so called lobbyest at work


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Personally, if I were the WJLP licensee, I would cease producing the locally-produced PA programs and rely on "Saved By The Bell" reruns to satisfy the E/I requirements.


To each his own, I guess. To me, SBTB is one of the worst shows ever made. The E/I rules sure have not worked out well.


----------



## nyctveng

mets18 said:


> It's a little silly that WCBS and WFSB are allowed to be on the same actual channel while WJLP and WFSB are not allowed to be on the same virtual channel, no?


It's not silly because the two are totally different issues. The WJLP situation as already hashed and discussed is more about cable carriage slots than OTA.


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> So WJLP (RF 3) won't get the Channel 3 slot on most cable systems.
> 
> Kind of sounds like New Jersey is getting dissed again, huh?
> Do WCBS (marketed as Channel 2) and WNBC (marketed as Channel 4) have any Jersey-centric public affairs programming?
> 
> WJLP may have to start marketing itself as Channel 33 and accept that The Powers That Be regard it as a fringey little station that should accept a high channel number for marketing purposes and not hang out with the big boys. It's like the teenager that gets stuck sitting at the kiddie table during a big holiday meal.


Verizon FiOS will continue to carry WJLP on 3. Hopefully DISH will keep it on 3.Most cable systems held out on carriage to wait for outcome of the FCC decision. 

The issue has nothing to do with Jersey getting dissed. There's no law or requirement saying a channel with Jersey centric public affairs programming needs to be low on the dial. It will still be there (or not if you're watching 2 or 4).


----------



## Fritz

*helical vs yagi/LP*



ALP said:


> Fritz, I am about 30 miles from the ESB, almost due north of it. I am on a south facing hill, however, I am sure there is summer foliage in my reception path. I really have no problems with a weak signal except for torrential rain when it occurs. I use a big Winegard on an eight foot mast which is on a two story flat roof. What antenna are you using right now?


which WG are you using?
I tried our old RS VU110 and an RCA ANT751. Both failed miserably, probably mostly due to heavy foliage and terrain.
I'm up 125' and the antenna is ~30' off the ground.
I'm thinking HD7694 or 7697 based on many suggestions.
I was thinking of a PWS helical, but can't see the $ right now. A friend of mine was the designer. He put one on his house in boonies of Washington state and is quite happy.
He put one on his dads house on Staten Island and it pulled in Phila clean. Not that I need that ........


----------



## ALP

Fritz said:


> which WG are you using?
> I tried our old RS VU110 and an RCA ANT751. Both failed miserably, probably mostly due to heavy foliage and terrain.
> I'm up 125' and the antenna is ~30' off the ground.
> I'm thinking HD7694 or 7697 based on many suggestions.
> I was thinking of a PWS helical, but can't see the $ right now. A friend of mine was the designer. He put one on his house in boonies of Washington state and is quite happy.
> He put one on his dads house on Staten Island and it pulled in Phila clean. Not that I need that ........


Fritz, As I said I am on the south face of hill (not sure of the exact elevation) and the antenna is about 8 to 9 feet above a two story flat roof (which actually helps reception). Most of my reception setup was done between 2009 and 2012 (some of the model numbers I used have been updated). The antenna is a WG HD7696P (I think the latest model is 7697). Instead of a signal amp on the antenna I use an 8 port Electroline Drop Amp that has 4.5 dB (about 3 times) forward gain on each port (I use 5 of the ports to send signal feeds to the family room, bedroom and kitchen). All of the cable is Belden 1694A with Canare Type F connectors for lowest possible insertion loss. As I said I would describe my reception as very good to excellent. I hope this helps.


----------



## uhfyagi

ALP said:


> Fritz, As I said I am on the south face of hill (not sure of the exact elevation) and the antenna is about 8 to 9 feet above a two story flat roof (which actually helps reception). Most of my reception setup was done between 2009 and 2012 (some of the model numbers I used have been updated). The antenna is a WG HD7696P (I think the latest model is 7697). Instead of a signal amp on the antenna I use an 8 port Electroline Drop Amp that has 4.5 dB (about 3 times) forward gain on each port (I use 5 of the ports to send signal feeds to the family room, bedroom and kitchen). All of the cable is Belden 1694A with Canare Type F connectors for lowest possible insertion loss. As I said I would describe my reception as very good to excellent. I hope this helps.


I think philly is doable from Staten Island, probably todt hill and the other hill where Wagner college is located. About the antenna the WG is decent antenna not the best one. I think antenna direct 91xg is a sinch, I'm using one myself, I get reliable reception from 65-70 miles, and I don't have any elevation to speak of.


----------



## ALP

uhfyagi said:


> I think philly is doable from Staten Island, probably todt hill and the other hill where Wagner college is located. About the antenna the WG is decent antenna not the best one. I think antenna direct 91xg is a sinch, I'm using one myself, I get reliable reception from 65-70 miles, and I don't have any elevation to speak of.


The 91XG looks very interesting, if the WG ever quits on me I will check it out. It appears there is a dealer over in Jersey.

Fritz, FWIW I found an online site that gives you a reasonable estimate of your elevation above sea level based on your address (probably uses google maps). It says I am 375 feet and given that the antenna is at least 8 feet above a two story roof that implies that my antenna is about 400 feet above sea level.


----------



## Aero 1

Anyone else seeing problems with RF 38? WWOR has been down for me since yesterday and I see that it's signal strength is way down. 

I have to check trip's diagnostics when I find the link.


----------



## Trip in VA

http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WWOR-TV

Looks like signal went up at my grandmother's house... maybe they're operating from the aux site in West Orange?

- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WWOR-TV
> 
> Looks like signal went up at my grandmother's house... maybe they're operating from the aux site in West Orange?
> 
> - Trip


seeing that the signal went up and that they could be operating out of WO, that would explain my situation.


----------



## DennisHPC

Aero 1 said:


> seeing that the signal went up and that they could be operating out of WO, that would explain my situation.


Just came up to my summer house located in Sparta Township and noticed that WWOR-TV (RF38) is gone. Other three major NY networks coming in fine (I'm 39 miles from ESB). Why is WWOR using an aux transmitter and will they go back to the one on the ESB?


----------



## Aero 1

DennisHPC said:


> Just came up to my summer house located in Sparta Township and noticed that WWOR-TV (RF38) is gone. Other three major NY networks coming in fine (I'm 39 miles from ESB). Why is WWOR using an aux transmitter and will they go back to the one on the ESB?


why? i have no idea. i emailed the VP of engineering at WNYW Fox 5 and he never got back to me. the previous engineer there was much nicer and always responded quickly, but he recently retired. 

Maybe since Fox pulled out of MundoFox, they are doing something to eliminate the simulcast on WWOR? who knows.

I'm surprised some of the regulars here have not reported the same problem, even if they are not seeing the issue. It seems that RetroTV constant flip-flopping is the only thing that gets reported.

If you receive WYNW RF 44 Fox 5, then you can watch WWOR in SD on Channel 9-2 and feel free to contact the VP of Engineering and tell him something is wrong: http://www.my9nj.com/story/17103277/2012/03/07/closed-captioning


----------



## nyctveng

Aero 1 said:


> Maybe since Fox pulled out of MundoFox, they are doing something to eliminate the simulcast on WWOR? who knows.


No, Mundofox is still there


----------



## nyctveng

DennisHPC said:


> Just came up to my summer house located in Sparta Township and noticed that WWOR-TV (RF38) is gone. Other three major NY networks coming in fine (I'm 39 miles from ESB). Why is WWOR using an aux transmitter and will they go back to the one on the ESB?


Testing and or maintenance. WNYW FOX has been doing the same thing in recent weeks.


----------



## Aero 1

nyctveng said:


> No, Mundofox is still there


Yes, fox sold its interest in mundofox to its partner in the venture RCN. This week RCN changed the name to mundomax without telling its affiliates. The affiliates are not happy, and some still use the mundoFOX bug. WWOR is owned by fox, and I'm sure they won't simulcast mundomax anymore.


----------



## uhfyagi

nyctveng said:


> No, Mundofox is still there


who cares about mynet 9 nothing worthwhile to watch family fued lol that rf could be up for auction I would not care a bit.


----------



## nyctveng

Aero 1 said:


> Yes, fox sold its interest in mundofox to its partner in the venture RCN. This week RCN changed the name to mundomax without telling its affiliates. The affiliates are not happy, and some still use the mundoFOX bug. WWOR is owned by fox, and I'm sure they won't simulcast mundomax anymore.


OK but as of the time stamp of this post, the channel is still being simulcast on 9-4 with the MundoFox logo.


----------



## Aero 1

WWOR came back for me about a half hour ago. Signal is back to normal.



uhfyagi said:


> who cares about mynet 9 nothing worthwhile to watch family fued lol that rf could be up for auction I would not care a bit.


Well, that settles it. no need to have this thread open anymore, might as well close it. 



nyctveng said:


> OK but as of the time stamp of this post, the channel is still being simulcast on 9-4 with the MundoFox logo.


thats part of the out cry. the affiliates arent happy. RCN fired evey one, changed the name without the affiliates knowing about it. I doubt Fox will continue simulcasting WPXO feed of MundoWhatever, unless there is a clause in the contract. 

http://www.mediamoves.com/2015/07/m...cancels-national-newscast-lays-off-staff.html


----------



## uhfyagi

nyctveng said:


> OK but as of the time stamp of this post, the channel is still being simulcast on 9-4 with the MundoFox logo.


I watch mundofox on 34.1 which has an awesome HD pq. the latina babes really putout


----------



## ALP

uhfyagi said:


> who cares about mynet 9 nothing worthwhile to watch family fued lol that rf could be up for auction I would not care a bit.


I do not watch WWOR unless they happen to be carrying a non-weekend Giants game. That does not mean that I would not be PO'ed if there was any decrease in OTA channel availability. The answer to who cares is that all of us should care.


----------



## uhfyagi

ALP said:


> I do not watch WWOR unless they happen to be carrying a non-weekend Giants game. That does not mean that I would not be PO'ed if there was any decrease in OTA channel availability. The answer to who cares is that all of us should care.


last time I checked everyone was entitled to an opinion, certainly is dandy to have more channels to view, but there is too many channels that carry not worthwhile programming look up and down the dial I have agree with len too many retro shows you can only watch the same episode so many times before there any suspense. thats my cents


----------



## reddice

WWOR is a classic example of the major TV stations that should move there transmitters to the new 1WTC. They can keep there backups on the ESB instead.


----------



## ALP

reddice said:


> WWOR is a classic example of the major TV stations that should move there transmitters to the new 1WTC. They can keep there backups on the ESB instead.


What are the political and financial ramifications of moving the transmitter from the ESB back to the new WTC? Who has to approve and what will it cost? And will it make reception better or worse.


----------



## uhfyagi

ALP said:


> What are the political and financial ramifications of moving the transmitter from the ESB back to the new WTC? Who has to approve and what will it cost? And will it make reception better or worse.


I think the op is saying that it would be a benefit most ota viewers, that wor9 would have another backup location rather than wo


----------



## DennisHPC

*Where is ABC Channel 7?*

Lost Channel 7 the last few days up here in the mountains in Sparta Township. Channel 7 was always my strongest station. Any work being done on the ESB?


----------



## ALP

I need help with "wonderful" () Channel 2.1 (WCBS) and their policy of moving nation programs to a cable channel (I think it is 55) when the preempt the nation programs with local programing instead of moving the national programs to Chanbnel 2.2 so that OTA customers can still see the programs. I seem to remember that this channel they use to off load the preempted programs to does actually broadcast, however, it is way out on LI and thus there is no chance that someone due north of the ESB using a directional antenna to receive their TV will pick up this alternate channel. Does this seem correct?  I want to write a letter to WCBS to ***** about their disregard for OTA customers, however, I want to have my facts right. 

I know I can watch the programs online after they are broadcast, however, I hate watching TV on a computer (even a good computer). Once you get use to a 60" screen it is irritating to give it up.


----------



## dstoffa

ALP said:


> I need help with "wonderful" () Channel 2.1 (WCBS) and their policy of moving nation programs to a cable channel (I think it is 55) when the preempt the nation programs with local programing instead of moving the national programs to Chanbnel 2.2 so that OTA customers can still see the programs. I seem to remember that this channel they use to off load the preempted programs to does actually broadcast, however, it is way out on LI and thus there is no chance that someone due north of the ESB using a directional antenna to receive their TV will pick up this alternate channel. Does this seem correct?  I want to write a letter to WCBS to ***** about their disregard for OTA customers, however, I want to have my facts right.
> 
> I know I can watch the programs online after they are broadcast, however, I hate watching TV on a computer (even a good computer). Once you get use to a 60" screen it is irritating to give it up.


WLNY-DT is a duopoly with WCBS-DT. WLNY also used to have a translator at RF 45, which had great city coverage. When the duopoly was approved, CBS had to sell the translator. It now shows infomercials all day long.

So, overflow programming goes to WLNY instead of 2-2. I am certain that WLNY has better cable carriage than 2-2... and since cable penetration is so high... it only makes sense that they follow the crowd.


----------



## ALP

dstoffa said:


> WLNY-DT is a duopoly with WCBS-DT. WLNY also used to have a translator at RF 45, which had great city coverage. When the duopoly was approved, CBS had to sell the translator. It now shows infomercials all day long.
> 
> So, overflow programming goes to WLNY instead of 2-2. I am certain that WLNY has better cable carriage than 2-2... and since cable penetration is so high... it only makes sense that they follow the crowd.


dstoffa, Please forgive me for being so dense on this matter, but I am not sure what you are saying. Does WLNY still broadcast an OTA signal (an if so what channel is it on) or is it only a cable channel now?


----------



## dstoffa

ALP said:


> dstoffa, Please forgive me for being so dense on this matter, but I am not sure what you are saying. Does WLNY still broadcast an OTA signal (an if so what channel is it on) or is it only a cable channel now?


WLNY programming was broadcast on two frequencies, with towers in different locations.

The "main" stick was (and still is) out in Suffolk County. This transmitter covers Suffolk and southern Connecticut / Rhode Island. The "translator" was in Nassau County, and provided coverage to Nassau County and New York City.

When CBS bought WLNY, they had no need for the translator (or couldn't keep it, since they owned WCBS-DT), and sold it.

Yes. WLNY still broadcasts OTA (RF 47, Virtual 55), but the transmitter is out in Suffolk Country, and is difficult to impossible to receive in NYC, let alone anywhere north of town.

If you can pick up WMUN-CD (RF 45), then before the sale, you could have watched WLNY on that station. This was the "translator".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLNY-TV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMUN-CD


----------



## unsmiley

Anyone know what happened Sinovision English on WMBC (63.3)? It seems that this and some other channel 63 subchannels stopped broadcasting recently.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hi unsmiley,


unsmiley said:


> Anyone know what happened Sinovision English on WMBC (63.3)? It seems that this and some other channel 63 subchannels stopped broadcasting recently.


The *Sinovision* channels are now being carried over WASA-LD Port Jervis (RF 25/Virtual 24-3 and 24-4). Presumably, the monster signal this LD transmits will provide OTA viewers and MSTV headends alike, especially situated east of Manhattan, with a greater opportunity to receive these broadcast ethnic diginets.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

dstoffa said:


> WLNY programming was broadcast on two frequencies, with towers in different locations.
> 
> The "main" stick was (and still is) out in Suffolk County. This transmitter covers Suffolk and southern Connecticut / Rhode Island. The "translator" was in Nassau County, and provided coverage to Nassau County and New York City.
> 
> When CBS bought WLNY, they had no need for the translator (or couldn't keep it, since they owned WCBS-DT), and sold it.
> 
> Yes. WLNY still broadcasts OTA (RF 47, Virtual 55), but the transmitter is out in Suffolk Country, and is difficult to impossible to receive in NYC, let alone anywhere north of town.
> 
> If you can pick up WMUN-CD (RF 45), then before the sale, you could have watched WLNY on that station. This was the "translator".
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLNY-TV
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMUN-CD



Just to say I live in murray hill in a 30+ floor apt building I live 8 floors up. I have a CM4221-HD on my balcony.
I have a pole in a bucket and then the ant is fixed on to the pole. With this i'm able to pick up everything
2.1 / 2.2 / 4.1 / 4.2 / 5.1 / 5.2 / 7.1 / 7.2 / 7.3 / 9.1 / 9.3 / 11.1 / 11.2 / 11.3 / 13.1 / 13.2 / 21.1 / 21.2 / 21.3 / 31.1 / 31.2 / 33.1 / 33.2 / 33.3 / 41.3 / 41.4 / 55.1 / 58.1 / 68.3 / 68.4

so yes u can get 55.1 in nyc 
its just odd that i was picking it up one night then it went away now its back for some reason its getting a low signal of 33 but i just watched some stuff on it for like 30 mins
33.3 is a test channel just bars 

29 channels + 1 test channel 
I only listed English channels that i pick up
if you need a run down of the list of channels i can write the names of them aswell

If i was to count all the non English channels the list would be like 70 channels total


----------



## dstoffa

p0tsm0ke said:


> so yes u can get 55.1 in nyc
> its just odd that i was picking it up one night then it went away now its back for some reason its getting a low signal of 33 but i just watched some stuff on it for like 30 mins


Not impossible, but you are probably the exception and not the rule.

When I was in college, buddies of mine had an east-facing dorm room 14 floors up, and were able to pick up tv55 with a simple Radio Shack dipole UHF antenna stuck out that east facing window... It was a way for us to watch Star Trek: TNG, since they showed it every night back in the early 90's.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

dstoffa said:


> Not impossible, but you are probably the exception and not the rule.
> 
> When I was in college, buddies of mine had an east-facing dorm room 14 floors up, and were able to pick up tv55 with a simple Radio Shack dipole UHF antenna stuck out that east facing window... It was a way for us to watch Star Trek: TNG, since they showed it every night back in the early 90's.



I'm wondering if i can improve the signal it self for that channels
my wife wants to watch BB on thursday and cbs has football lol

I think that CBS might be boosting the signal just for thurday i just wonder

well my signal is bouncing from 17 to 33 now so no clue what is going on my wife would love to see BB tomorrow lol


----------



## StudioTech

p0tsm0ke said:


> I'm wondering if i can improve the signal it self for that channels
> my wife wants to watch BB on thursday and cbs has football lol


Tell your wife the show will air after the news at 11:30.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

StudioTech said:


> Tell your wife the show will air after the news at 11:30.


its more about the LIVE of BB that she wants to see
i know i know soooo stupid
FEED IS LIVE IN MY APT ANYWAY 
I GOT 50 LEVEL AND ITS ON RIGHT NOW


----------



## skowser

Apologies if this has been asked and answered a million times (this thread is loooooooooonnnnngggggggg). I just cut the proverbial cord to cable here in Passaic County, NJ (Cablevision). I'm looking for antenna recommendations for my area. I picked up a Mohu leaf pretty cheaply but it doesn't bring in WABC. From what i've read, i need an antenna that brings in VHF as well as UHF. Any suggestions? The other NY OTA stations come in great with the leaf but given the choice between ABC and CW...i'll take ABC. I'm looking for an indoor antenna too. Thanks!


----------



## Aero 1

skowser said:


> Apologies if this has been asked and answered a million times (this thread is loooooooooonnnnngggggggg). I just cut the proverbial cord to cable here in Passaic County, NJ (Cablevision). I'm looking for antenna recommendations for my area. I picked up a Mohu leaf pretty cheaply but it doesn't bring in WABC. From what i've read, i need an antenna that brings in VHF as well as UHF. Any suggestions? The other NY OTA stations come in great with the leaf but given the choice between ABC and CW...i'll take ABC. I'm looking for an indoor antenna too. Thanks!


im in passaic county and ill tell you, if you want to get vhf channels indoors and depending where you are, then you need rabbit ears in the perfect spot and super glue it so it doesnt move.

we need your tvfool.com report to offer any guidance. put your exact address, it wont show when you post the link.


----------



## skowser

Aero 1 said:


> im in passaic county and ill tell you, if you want to get vhf channels indoors and depending where you are, then you need rabbit ears in the perfect spot and super glue it so it doesnt move.
> 
> we need your tvfool.com report to offer any guidance. put your exact address, it wont show when you post the link.


Thanks for the quick response. here is the TVFool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=8e034de87465c1


----------



## Aero 1

skowser said:


> Thanks for the quick response. here is the TVFool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=8e034de87465c1


our tvfool results are almost identical, with only a 3 mile difference. the same direction and everything. the big difference is that you have yours plotted at 13 feet antenna height and mine at 40 feet.

here is mine if you want to compare: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=f1f0f7894dc857

when i did this 5 years ago, i could not for the life of me get reliable signal indoors for the VHF channels. I settled with an Antennas Direct C5 VHF only antenna joined with a DB4 UHF antenna on the roof strapped to the chimney. not one problem since. later down the road i joined a third, lo-VHF antenna in the attic for MeTV but thats not necessary for you for ABC and the higher VHF stations.

you're only option for indoors is to join that leaf with rabbit ears and find a spot that will work, but i have a feeling that leaf is not going to hold up well with interference from a snowy, icy winter. or get outdoor antennas like mentioned above or the antenna direct C2V and place it indoors and deal with the look of it.


----------



## LenL

*kowser*



skowser said:


> Apologies if this has been asked and answered a million times (this thread is loooooooooonnnnngggggggg). I just cut the proverbial cord to cable here in Passaic County, NJ (Cablevision). I'm looking for antenna recommendations for my area. I picked up a Mohu leaf pretty cheaply but it doesn't bring in WABC. From what i've read, i need an antenna that brings in VHF as well as UHF. Any suggestions? The other NY OTA stations come in great with the leaf but given the choice between ABC and CW...i'll take ABC. I'm looking for an indoor antenna too. Thanks!


This is a question for you and a suggestion for others thinking about cutting the cord. Before you cut the cord do your research! Don't cut the cord and then come on this forum and ask what do I do! Of course you and others can do that but that is not the best way to go about it.

Find out if you can use an indoor antenna or need to install an outdoor antenna or attic antenna. OTA reception is full of so many variables and issues that one should not cut the cord and then try to figure out if they can go OTA. Of course you can always go back to the cord.

Many big box places will let you buy an antenna and return it if not happy. Many people have to try out different antennas before they find the right one for their situation. Many people discover that an indoor antenna will not work for them. Whether it be by the TV or in the attic. 

If I were you or anyone thinking of cutting the cord I would work on my OTA requirements first, give it a try and then cut the cord if it worked out.


----------



## skowser

LenL said:


> This is a question for you and a suggestion for others thinking about cutting the cord. Before you cut the cord do your research! Don't cut the cord and then come on this forum and ask what do I do! Of course you and others can do that but that is not the best way to go about it.
> 
> Find out if you can use an indoor antenna or need to install an outdoor antenna or attic antenna. OTA reception is full of so many variables and issues that one should not cut the cord and then try to figure out if they can go OTA. Of course you can always go back to the cord.
> 
> Many big box places will let you buy an antenna and return it if not happy. Many people have to try out different antennas before they find the right one for their situation. Many people discover that an indoor antenna will not work for them. Whether it be by the TV or in the attic.
> 
> If I were you or anyone thinking of cutting the cord I would work on my OTA requirements first, give it a try and then cut the cord if it worked out.


Thanks for your wonderfully helpful advice @LenL.

If my circumstances had allowed me to do the requisite research needed, I would have. Without going into detail, they didn't. So I couldn't. Instead i asked a question, on a forum, the definition of which is: a place or opportunity of discussing a subject.

I took the opportunity to express my needs in the hope that others who had done the same, could help me. One person did just that. Perhaps instead of chastising me for not "doing my research!" you could just add some helpful advice...or not contribute at, all if you can't.


----------



## JoeWS

Amen, Skowser.


----------



## ALP

Is anyone having problems with WNET, Channel 13.1 (PBS)? It is cutting in an out, more so with its audio and less with its video. I first noticed it late last night and the problem is still it there morning. Last night signal strength seemed a little down (in the 60% range), however, this morning the problem is still there with signal strength of 87%.


----------



## ALP

rothe said:


> Is anybody else having trouble receiving WNET/13 this afternoon? I'm down about 14db in signal strength for this station only, just as of this afternoon, as measured by a spectrum analyzer. All of my other stations are as strong as they usually are, and I've confirmed that my antenna hasn't budged. Granted, I'm 37 miles out from the ESB, but I can't find any local cause for the signal loss. Anybody?


James. Did your signal strength problem with 13/WNET clear up?


----------



## John Mason

ALP said:


> Is anyone having problems with WNET, Channel 13.1 (PBS)? It is cutting in an out, more so with its audio and less with its video. I first noticed it late last night and the problem is still it there morning. Last night signal strength seemed a little down (in the 60% range), however, this morning the problem is still there with signal strength of 87%.


Yes, see my posts in today's nyc/fios thread. FIOS expects repair before 1:45 pm today. -- John


----------



## tshoot1

John Mason said:


> Yes, see my posts in today's nyc/fios thread. FIOS expects repair before 1:45 pm today. -- John


Yes. There were dropouts last nite, both OTA and on FiOS. Now FiOS is showing channel is "no longer available"!!!


----------



## Aero 1

WNET is blaming mother nature: https://twitter.com/ThirteenWNET/status/641058961987379200



> We’re told the issue is being caused by "atmospheric conditions" and TV signal interference beyond our control affecting FiOS and DirecTV.


----------



## ALP

Aero 1 said:


> WNET is blaming mother nature: https://twitter.com/ThirteenWNET/status/641058961987379200


Can someone explain to me how "atmospheric conditions" can effect only Channel 13 (and principally the audio portion) without effecting any of the other main broadcast TV channels (2,4,5,7 and 11)? There has been no rain in the past 48 hours and solar activity would effect almost all of the channels. Help!


----------



## Trip in VA

Tropo was really intense over the weekend. Sunday morning I had WTNH in like a local here in the DC area, and my parents had KJWP and WPVI from Philadelphia for more than 6 hours. 

WPRI on 13 seems like a likely interference source.

- Trip


----------



## ALP

Trip in VA said:


> Tropo was really intense over the weekend. Sunday morning I had WTNH in like a local here in the DC area, and my parents had KJWP and WPVI from Philadelphia for more than 6 hours.
> 
> WPRI on 13 seems like a likely interference source.
> 
> - Trip


So you are saying that the heating of the troposphere is allowing at least one TV signal that normally does not reach NYC to reach our area and it just so happens that this signal interfers with Channel 13 (WNET). If that is the case then the interference will probably last another day or two.


----------



## John Mason

ALP said:


> Can someone explain to me how "atmospheric conditions" can effect only Channel 13 (and principally the audio portion) without effecting any of the other main broadcast TV channels (2,4,5,7 and 11)? There has been no rain in the past 48 hours and solar activity would effect almost all of the channels. Help!


Only thing that occurs to me is the annual disruption of satellite and terrestrial communications caused by the earth's solar alignment (see 'sun outage' at Wikipedia, discussing the Sept-Oct equinox). Forgotten the details but it been discussed here in earlier threads I recall. Tried a few solar-storm maps earlier today but couldn't find anything that jumped out. Haven't used OTA for several years from mid-town, only FIOS, but haven't noticed other failures besides WNET--without much hopping around channels. If lots of stations also fiber-feed FIOS, as I understand they did when I was with TWC, I wouldn't notice outages necessarily.-- John


----------



## LenL

skowser said:


> Thanks for your wonderfully helpful advice @LenL .
> 
> If my circumstances had allowed me to do the requisite research needed, I would have. Without going into detail, they didn't. So I couldn't. Instead i asked a question, on a forum, the definition of which is: a place or opportunity of discussing a subject.
> 
> I took the opportunity to express my needs in the hope that others who had done the same, could help me. One person did just that. Perhaps instead of chastising me for not "doing my research!" you could just add some helpful advice...or not contribute at, all if you can't.



You should also understand that when you come on a public forum you will get different views and responses to a question. I stand by my advice as it relates to your situation and to those who come on the forum and are considering cutting the cord. I think I gave VERY useful info for those looking for a pathway to cutting the cord....your hurt feelings and sarcasm aside. Yours was a very good example of WHAT NOT TO DO! Now that you cut the cord you have to do the very thing you should have done BEFORE you cut the cord. Come on this forum and get advice about antennas, amps and reception issues. You will get advice and we will bail you out.


----------



## John Mason

Noticed WNET , SD and HD, is back on FIOS and presumably OTA as of ~2 pm or earlier today. -- John


----------



## n2ubp

John Mason said:


> Noticed WNET , SD and HD, is back on FIOS and presumably OTA as of ~2 pm or earlier today. -- John


This afternoon I saw 13 on the air using the satellite feed of my DirecTV H20 receiver but could not pull it in using the OTA features of the same receiver. Using newer technology OTA tuners I was able to receive 13 OTA. Perhaps something still going on with terrestrial propagation that affects older design OTA receivers? 

Steve
N2UBP


----------



## ALP

I now have Thirteen OTA with good video and audio. Let's hope it stays that way.


----------



## NYPokerface

For those who can get WZME, they will be changing from MeTV to Heroes & Icons in October.


----------



## NYPokerface

Heroes & Icons just made a deal with FOX. The channel will be showing up on 5.4 next quarter.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/currency/fox-stations-agree-carry-heroes-icons/144293


----------



## Aero 1

NYPokerface said:


> Heroes & Icons just made a deal with FOX. The channel will be showing up on 5.4 next quarter.
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/currency/fox-stations-agree-carry-heroes-icons/144293


I'm very happy about this. This was the channel I was hoping that wjlp was testingOn their 3 sub.


----------



## mvcg66b3r

So how can the NYC DMA have _two_ H&I affiliates - WNYW and WZME?


----------



## PaulFrancis

Why not? They've had 2 MeTv's for about a year now.


----------



## PaulFrancis

Isn't H and I mostly cop shows? If so, ION already has that type of lineup.


----------



## PaulFrancis

El Rey sounds like a good channel...karate and Godzilla movies.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

mvcg66b3r said:


> So how can the NYC DMA have _two_ H&I affiliates - WNYW and WZME?


Well, according to the FCC, the NYC DMA already has two CBS affiliates: WCBS-TV New York and WFSB Hartford 



PaulFrancis said:


> Isn't H and I mostly cop shows? If so, ION already has that type of lineup.


Digital Television, by the nature of its multichannel technology, has enabled programming fragmentation. Essentially, the electromagnetic spectrum opened up by multicasting can now offer specific genres of programming much like cable television could shortly after its commercial distribution, thus affording OTA TV the opportunity to more fairly compete with its closed-end subscription counterpart.

_Heroes & Icons_ might best be described as a retro version of ION, boasting a more diverse schedule absent the redundant "Criminal Minds" multiple marathons each week.

This agreement is the best thing for this diginet because FOX has ensured that virtually all of the diginets their broadcast stations carry are also carried on the MSTV providers. There is no reason to believe FOX will not negotiate similarly for _Heroes & Icons_.

And we haven't yet heard from uhfyagi as he is probably out celebrating tonight and will be recuperating tomorrow


----------



## dstoffa

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Well, according to the FCC, the NYC DMA already has two CBS affiliates: WCBS-TV New York and WFSB Hartford


You forgot KYW Philadelphia, too...


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Essentially, the electromagnetic spectrum opened up by multicasting can now offer specific genres of programming much like cable television could shortly after its commercial distribution, thus affording OTA TV the opportunity to more fairly compete with its closed-end subscription counterpart.



That's a nice theory, but you certainly must know that broadcasters are completely dependent on having carriage on cable and satellite systems. And, unfortunately, the OTA diginets, even when they get carriage on cable systems, are having trouble attracting good advertisers. (Very few of the affiliates for the OTA diginets are able to get carriage for their diginet subchannels on satellite systems. WJLP is a notable exception because Me-TV is on the primary "dot 1" channel, and WJLP can invoke "must carry" provisions of federal law to ensure that its "dot1" channel gets carriage.)


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey veedon,


veedon said:


> That's a nice theory, but you certainly must know that broadcasters are completely dependent on having carriage on cable and satellite systems. And, unfortunately, the OTA diginets, even when they get carriage on cable systems, are having trouble attracting good advertisers. (Very few of the affiliates for the OTA diginets are able to get carriage for their diginet subchannels on satellite systems. WJLP is a notable exception because Me-TV is on the primary "dot 1" channel, and WJLP can invoke "must carry" provisions of federal law to ensure that its "dot1" channel gets carriage.)


You are half right.

Broadcasters do not have to be _entirely_ dependent on their carriage agreements. Those agreements should supplement their footprint and not replace it. Over the past two decades, however, cable providers have gained such a market advantage that cable penetration in most areas exceeds 85%. Thus if a diginet is not available via that pay TV service it will obviously get less exposure.

However, broadcast networks and stations are not entirely blameless in losing market share. If programming is compelling enough, potential viewers will find a way to receive it. Also over the past two decades, many professional sports leagues have transitioned from the airwaves to the closed-end subscription TV services, and this also substantially bolstered the population of pay TV subscribers.

I do believe that if a product or service is compelling and of good quality and value, the public will come for it. Five years ago, no-contract prepaid cellular telephone service was only offered by a handful of providers, and was dismissed as a service catering only to the criminal elements and the poor. Today, even the major carriers have recognized the significant multi-demographic consumer demand for such service, and accordingly are offering many such plans in addition to their contract services.

Unfortunately, the NAB and broadcasters have only recently began their efforts to produce content that is appealing to the public. Their advertising of broadcast television is anemic at best; merely saying broadcast TV is important does nothing. Viewers need to have compelling reasons to cut the pay TV services and return to the large rods that pull the signals from out of the air.

The lack of national/local advertisers in favor of P.I. ads for many of these retro-genre diginets is not always attributable to MSTV carriage or lack thereof; it is directly attributable to the majority demographics likely viewing the diginet. MeTV has been successful with pulling national advertisers, but at this point they are the exception. In many markets, the licensee could package ad rates to include local spots also appearing on the diginets for additional rates, but oftentimes the lack of an aggressive/competent sales department forecloses that option.

I also agree that the must-carry rules between cable and satellite providers are outdated, unbalanced, and unfair to the diginets which are not fortunate enough to air on the primary stream of a broadcast station, thus enabling their programming to also air over satellite. The FCC would be wise to review this discrepancy, but it is likely they will be dealing with something else over the next two years


----------



## veedon

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> The lack of national/local advertisers in favor of P.I. ads for many of these retro-genre diginets is not always attributable to MSTV carriage or lack thereof; it is directly attributable to the majority demographics likely viewing the diginet. MeTV has been successful with pulling national advertisers, but at this point they are the exception. In many markets, the licensee could package ad rates to include local spots also appearing on the diginets for additional rates, but oftentimes the lack of an aggressive/competent sales department forecloses that option.


I don't see why the retro diginet subchannels aren't carrying ads for local supermarkets, restaurants, and things like that. Believe it or not, older people do have money, and I have heard that some of them even eat. And even if they don't do the grocery shopping, they can influence whoever does do the shopping.


----------



## nyctveng

veedon said:


> I don't see why the retro diginet subchannels aren't carrying ads for local supermarkets, restaurants, and things like that. Believe it or not, older people do have money, and I have heard that some of them even eat. And even if they don't do the grocery shopping, they can influence whoever does do the shopping.


digi subchannels will mostly have national type ads rather than local. sure they attract older folks with money but the viewers are so spread out across the market that it makes no sense for a local business to advertise on it. They would more likely advertise on local cable where the ads are targeted to their immediate area rather than across a market where 90% of the viewers aren't even likely to go to the business.


----------



## nyctveng

PaulFrancis said:


> Isn't H and I mostly cop shows? If so, ION already has that type of lineup.


ION's numbers must be good enough for copycats.


----------



## veedon

nyctveng said:


> digi subchannels will mostly have national type ads rather than local. sure they attract older folks with money but the viewers are so spread out across the market that it makes no sense for a local business to advertise on it. They would more likely advertise on local cable where the ads are targeted to their immediate area rather than across a market where 90% of the viewers aren't even likely to go to the business.


I guess there is still a need for the ability to have locally targeted advertising. Maybe newspapers will survive after all.


----------



## unsmiley

p0tsm0ke said:


> Just to say I live in murray hill in a 30+ floor apt building I live 8 floors up. I have a CM4221-HD on my balcony.
> I have a pole in a bucket and then the ant is fixed on to the pole. With this i'm able to pick up everything
> 2.1 / 2.2 / 4.1 / 4.2 / 5.1 / 5.2 / 7.1 / 7.2 / 7.3 / 9.1 / 9.3 / 11.1 / 11.2 / 11.3 / 13.1 / 13.2 / 21.1 / 21.2 / 21.3 / 31.1 / 31.2 / 33.1 / 33.2 / 33.3 / 41.3 / 41.4 / 55.1 / 58.1 / 68.3 / 68.4
> 
> so yes u can get 55.1 in nyc
> its just odd that i was picking it up one night then it went away now its back for some reason its getting a low signal of 33 but i just watched some stuff on it for like 30 mins
> 33.3 is a test channel just bars
> 
> 29 channels + 1 test channel
> I only listed English channels that i pick up
> if you need a run down of the list of channels i can write the names of them aswell
> 
> If i was to count all the non English channels the list would be like 70 channels total


I am very interested in your setup as I have long wanted to get channels 55 and 21, which must people on this site feel is impossible in Manhattan. Which direction does your balcony face? Mine faces North, and I am higher up than you and on the Upper East Side. I have never tried an antenna out on the balcony - have only been using a 99 cent indoor antenna. Also: are you using an amplifier? I do get all the other channels you list (other than 55 and 21).


----------



## uhfyagi

unsmiley said:


> I am very interested in your setup as I have long wanted to get channels 55 and 21, which must people on this site feel is impossible in Manhattan. Which direction does your balcony face? Mine faces North, and I am higher up than you and on the Upper East Side. I have never tried an antenna out on the balcony - have only been using a 99 cent indoor antenna. Also: are you using an amplifier? I do get all the other channels you list (other than 55 and 21).


yes is possible to get tv55 you need height the more the better I'm Queens, I use antennas direct 91xg with a winegard preamplifier in a roof mounted setup my elevation here is 80 feet plus 30 feet to top of mast. I can get New Haven station at dusk 65 miles as crow flies.


----------



## Aero 1

Heroes and Icons goes on the air on 9.4 on October 1st. replacing the simulcast of MundoFox.

http://handitvnetwork.com/wheretowatch/#NY


----------



## PaulFrancis

Good. At least English speakers have another channel to watch. I tried watching foreign language channels using captioning, but they never showed captioning in English.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

This recent FOX Broadcasting Company (FOX) over-the-air (OTA) programming maneuver forces the revisit of a question asked repeatedly over the course of the past several years: Why continue the SD duplicate of WNYW New York/WWOR-TV Secaucus, particularly when the FCC has very recently granted each station a fill-in translator in the New York City market????

It has now been SIX YEARS since terrestrial full-power analog broadcasting was terminated throughout the United States. However, FOX remains committed to wasting valuable bandwidth by providing the SD feed of their FOX and MyNetworkTV (not really a broadcast network) affiliates in most of the major markets in which their signals have an OTA presence.

At this point, I think FOX should be queried by the FCC to prove WHY they cannot provide MSTV providers downconverters at FOX's own expense. Given the net worth and vast inventory of Rupert Murdoch's properties, the New York Post losing newspaper subscribers is an insufficient defense. And as far as this viewer is concerned, there no longer exists a reason to duplicate A/V programming services when the parent company has been granted TWO fill-in translator stations, WNYW-2 Newburgh and WWOR-TV-2 Alpine, and each of those new stations are situated in the recently coveted 600 MHz band.

FOX stands to earn tons of money by way of next year's auction. Many of their (our) valuable public assets (broadcast licenses) are up for auction, and citizens should be reassured that all of these assets will be auctioned at a fair and reasonable price.


----------



## Trip in VA

Last time WNYW was off the air, people were very glad it was still on WWOR. 

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> Heroes and Icons goes on the air on 9.4 on October 1st. replacing the simulcast of MundoFox.
> 
> http://handitvnetwork.com/wheretowatch/#NY


I don't get it, if h&i is coming to wzmetv are they dropping metv programming? according to this page, all the cable operators are doing the same. this can't be possible, so they dropping metv their bread and butter for H I ? makes no sense. anybody care to respond? trip where are you buddy lol


----------



## n2ubp

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> This recent FOX Broadcasting Company (FOX) over-the-air (OTA) programming maneuver forces the revisit of a question asked repeatedly over the course of the past several years: Why continue the SD duplicate of WNYW New York/WWOR-TV Secaucus, particularly when the FCC has very recently granted each station a fill-in translator in the New York City market????
> 
> It has now been SIX YEARS since terrestrial full-power analog broadcasting was terminated throughout the United States. However, FOX remains committed to wasting valuable bandwidth by providing the SD feed of their FOX and MyNetworkTV (not really a broadcast network) affiliates in most of the major markets in which their signals have an OTA presence.
> 
> At this point, I think FOX should be queried by the FCC to prove WHY they cannot provide MSTV providers downconverters at FOX's own expense. Given the net worth and vast inventory of Rupert Murdoch's properties, the New York Post losing newspaper subscribers is an insufficient defense. And as far as this viewer is concerned, there no longer exists a reason to duplicate A/V programming services when the parent company has been granted TWO fill-in translator stations, WNYW-2 Newburgh and WWOR-TV-2 Alpine, and each of those new stations are situated in the recently coveted 600 MHz band.
> 
> FOX stands to earn tons of money by way of next year's auction. Many of their (our) valuable public assets (broadcast licenses) are up for auction, and citizens should be reassured that all of these assets will be auctioned at a fair and reasonable price.


For some reason 5-1 is difficult to receive up here in Middletown, NY Orange County, but have no trouble receiving the duplicate SD transmission offered by WWOR. I'm sure I am not the only one. - 73 de N2UBP


----------



## uhfyagi

n2ubp said:


> For some reason 5-1 is difficult to receive up here in Middletown, NY Orange County, but have no trouble receiving the duplicate SD transmission offered by WWOR. I'm sure I am not the only one. - 73 de N2UBP


post your tvfool.com report


----------



## n2ubp

Here is my TV Fool report. Antenna is stacked 91xg UHF yagi and VHF hi band yagi, Channel Master Spartan antenna mount pre amp, rg6 coax, rotor.


----------



## NYota1

So, I had an email from Dan Viles at WYBN-14 up in Windham, NY. He wonders if there are any techie, engineer types on this forum. 

I was mentioning to him about the poor signal quality of his station ... as it pertains to the northern perimeter of the coverage area. This is defined as the Capital Region, which technically is meant to be within the normal signal range, but fails to reach. He's thinking of either a repeater to better reach the area or a beam tilt of the current signal. 

Does anyone here have the technical knowledge to assist Dan with his problem?


----------



## Aero 1

H&I has now been pushed to October 3rd on WWOR 9.4

http://handitvnetwork.com/wheretowatch/#NY


----------



## Wappingers.dx

n2ubp said:


> For some reason 5-1 is difficult to receive up here in Middletown, NY Orange County, but have no trouble receiving the duplicate SD transmission offered by WWOR. I'm sure I am not the only one. - 73 de N2UBP


Anyone lose the Fox 5 repeater off Mt Beacon? Been off the air for about a week now


----------



## uhfyagi

H&i is here.. watching combat. PQ is decent. enjoy


----------



## Aero 1

Comet TV (http://comettv.com/), the new Scifi diginet that was announced this year is coming to the NYC area on WZME 43.3. date has not been set but the network goes live on October 31st.

confirmation from WZME: https://www.facebook.com/permalink....&total_comments=1&comment_tracking={"tn":"R"}

i was looking forward to this channel, it sucks that its going on WZME, i cant pick it up.


----------



## uhfyagi

Aero 1 said:


> Comet TV (http://comettv.com/), the new Scifi diginet that was announced this year is coming to the NYC area on WZME 43.3. date has not been set but the network goes live on October 31st.
> 
> confirmation from WZME: https://www.facebook.com/permalink....&total_comments=1&comment_tracking={"tn":"R"}
> 
> i was looking forward to this channel, it sucks that its going on WZME, i cant pick it up.


i was tuned into wzme rf 43.3 is not on the air yet, did notice that H&I has replaced metv on main channel. Is a shame that we can't get this offering. I don't like to gripe but their is too many wasted channel bandwidth.
45 has only shopping 60 shopping 46 has investment. does anyone really tune in to these obsolete shows.


----------



## NYota1

uhfyagi said:


> I don't like to gripe but their is too many wasted channel bandwidth.
> 45 has only shopping 60 shopping 46 has investment. does anyone really tune in to these obsolete shows.


At least you have a much larger choice where you are. We here (upstate) only have 4 national digi-nets. The rest that are taking up sub-channels are comprised of local weather, a duplicate CBS stream, and our Fox affiliate has only 1 sub-channel and it's 24/7 OTB racing! That MIGHT be okay for compulsive gamblers, but not for the rest of us.


----------



## uhfyagi

NYota1 said:


> At least you have a much larger choice where you are. We here (upstate) only have 4 national digi-nets. The rest that are taking up sub-channels are comprised of local weather, a duplicate CBS stream, and our Fox affiliate has only 1 sub-channel and it's 24/7 OTB racing! That MIGHT be okay for compulsive gamblers, but not for the rest of us.


lol are you serious. why don't you move down here, I think there is room for one more.


----------



## Wappingers.dx

Just a quick question, Does WABC-TV broadcast from the Empire State building or did they move over to 1 World Trade Center?


----------



## Trip in VA

Nobody is on 1WTC as of now.

- Trip


----------



## NYota1

uhfyagi said:


> lol are you serious. why don't you move down here, I think there is room for one more.


I would if I had Donald Trump's money.


----------



## uhfyagi

NYota1 said:


> I would if I had Donald Trump's money.


then you wouldn't be watchin ota


----------



## NYota1

uhfyagi said:


> then you wouldn't be watchin ota


Not necessarily. I LOVE these new OTA choices!


----------



## unsmiley

My WJLP 33.1 (MeTV) reception has been lousy last few days on one of my televisions, the older one with set top digital tuner and rabbit ears (with the other television in another room, WJLP reception is fine). Any one else experiencing this? Anything to try to make it better?


----------



## LenL

13.1 has become a problem since the beginning of October. Signal strength is at 100 but quality is under 20.

Usually my reception for 13.1 is the same as 11.1 and 7.1. Those stations are fine now. Only 13.1 is a problem.

I have tried a few things inside the house to no avail. I doubt it is antenna related because I had great reception until now and the other high VHF stations are still fine.

Anyone else have issues with 13.1


----------



## uhfyagi

Len pix doesn't show up for me. 13 is iffy, 7 is good though, can't figure it out. also metv 33.1 is a no show. 
come on lets go mets.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

According to the most recent preliminary figures released by the FCC regarding the upcoming reverse auction, should FOX surrender WNYW New York (RF 44) and relegate WWOR-TV Secaucus (RF 38) to VHF-Lo (presumably WJLP Middletown Township, NJ., RF 3) altogether, FOX would net $1,432,451,700.00 (nearly $1.5 BILLION).

BUT, if WJLP would just get out of the way of the displaced broadcasters, their owners (PMCM TV, LLC.) could net a mere $206,954,325.00 (nearly $207 MILLION).

Here are the recently released auction estimates for most media markets: http://www.tvtechnology.com/portals/0/Reverse Auction Opening Prices 101615 Attachment.pdf


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> According to the most recent preliminary figures released by the FCC regarding the upcoming reverse auction, should FOX surrender WNYW New York (RF 44) and relegate WWOR-TV Secaucus (RF 38) to VHF-Lo (presumably WJLP Middletown Township, NJ., RF 3) altogether, FOX would net $1,432,451,700.00 (nearly $1.5 BILLION).
> 
> BUT, if WJLP would just get out of the way of the displaced broadcasters, their owners (PMCM TV, LLC.) could net a mere $206,954,325.00 (nearly $207 MILLION).
> 
> Here are the recently released auction estimates for most media markets: http://www.tvtechnology.com/portals/0/Reverse Auction Opening Prices 101615 Attachment.pdf


no way I would make that deal the cell cos make billionz total ripoff. fox has no initiative to make this happen


----------



## Trip in VA

Up to. It's the opening price for an auction in which prices drop over time.

- Trip


----------



## martianpete

unsmiley said:


> My WJLP 33.1 (MeTV) reception has been lousy last few days on one of my televisions, the older one with set top digital tuner and rabbit ears (with the other television in another room, WJLP reception is fine). Any one else experiencing this? Anything to try to make it better?


I have lost Ch 2.1, 2.2; 5.1, 5.3; 9.1, 9.3 (have not been able to receive the H&I on 9.4) and 31.1 all since the beginning of October. Has something changed recently to have caused this since there have not been any antenna changes?


----------



## LenL

martianpete said:


> I have lost Ch 2.1, 2.2; 5.1, 5.3; 9.1, 9.3 (have not been able to receive the H&I on 9.4) and 31.1 all since the beginning of October. Has something changed recently to have caused this since there have not been any antenna changes?


A lot of Solar flare activity could have some impact. Also since you are in Brooklyn any building get put up that block your reception between you and the ESB?


----------



## martianpete

LenL said:


> A lot of Solar flare activity could have some impact. Also since you are in Brooklyn any building get put up that block your reception between you and the ESB?


No new buildings that I know of, but you mention the solar flare activity. I did read a story just this week about increased solar activity that has created a coronal hole 50 Earths wide causing some stellar (no pun intended) auroras from a geomagnetic storm. Usually (in the past) it just causes some slight dropouts here and there, but it makes sense that this must be it. This storm sounds like it is one of the larger one's that we have seen in a couple of years. To know that there haven't been any other changes and the presence of solar activity gives valid answers. I'll have to do a check around the neighborhood to double check the building construction (if any) that is creating a dead zone but I think you have most likely pinpointed the source. Thanks Len!


----------



## uhfyagi

I rescanned got a few channels back but I totally lost wnet13. thinking my preamp might be the problem, might get a winegard to replace. today sunday lots of wind causing lots of pixelation during jets game.


----------



## NYPokerface

WXNY has added two new subchannels...
32.4 Rev'n
32.5 Retro TV


----------



## uhfyagi

cool txs 4 upd8. retrotv looks cool watchin route66 the other channel is showing another good series naked city lovin it.


----------



## LenL

Question for Rabbit Ears in regards to WNET 13.1

I complained a few days earlier on this forum about my reception going bad. Signal strength 100 but quality 0.

I just went up to your website and took a look at your data from Fairlawn and see you do show issues with signal quality for 13.1 cropping up in Sept with your yearly graphs.

Do you have any idea what caused the sudden spike in relative signal to noise issue?


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm not sure what you're referring to. At the end of August, I visited and adjusted the position of the antenna, which is on the top of a TV set in an upstairs bedroom. I'm not seeing where there are any signal issues since then: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNET

It does look like there were brief outages yesterday though.

- Trip


----------



## uhfyagi

NYPokerface said:


> WXNY has added two new subchannels...
> 32.4 Rev'n
> 32.5 Retro TV


anyone what happened to retro tv is not being showned


----------



## NYPokerface

uhfyagi said:


> anyone what happened to retro tv is not being showned


I don't know why it was down for a couple of days. But it's back on the air now.


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> I'm not sure what you're referring to. At the end of August, I visited and adjusted the position of the antenna, which is on the top of a TV set in an upstairs bedroom. I'm not seeing where there are any signal issues since then: http://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNET
> 
> It does look like there were brief outages yesterday though.
> 
> - Trip


Look at the YEARLY graph for WNET at the Fairlawn location and see the BLUE line that denotes relative signal/noise in your graph. It went bonkers at the end of August into October. That's what I am talking about. Something happened and is still going on.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes, I changed the position of the antenna at the end of August, as noted. WNET was previously averaging about 62 and now is less stable but doesn't go below 70.

You'll note WPIX also improved (not as much), WNBC dropped, and WPXN dropped at the same time.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

*Noted*

That you improved signal strength but have a loss in quality and thus reception. Well I haven't touched my outdoor antennas and have the same results as you. Although I did get reception back yesterday for 13.1. The signal quality improved to the point there is some pixilation but it is watchable. I will have to see if it continues to improve.


----------



## sesnut

anyone have any problems with 7.1 lately?
as of today, the signal is almost completely gone for me


----------



## LenL

sesnut said:


> anyone have any problems with 7.1 lately?
> as of today, the signal is almost completely gone for me


Just checked and all is well here. That is the best VHF station for me. Signal is at 100% for 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1. However signal quality is only around 30% for 13.1. It is around 60-70% for 7.1 so I get it without any breakup.


----------



## drew64

I have directv and used to get Metv as channel 43. Now it changed to something else and see Me tv is 33.1. I have a mohu leaf antenna but that does not pull it in. Tried regular rabbit ears but get nothing. Is there a specific type of antenna I need. Live outside nyc area so should be easy to pull in. Will try and change position of rabbit ears. Live in tow home so can't hang it outside. Need indoor antenna


----------



## nyctveng

drew64 said:


> I have directv and used to get Metv as channel 43. Now it changed to something else and see Me tv is 33.1. I have a mohu leaf antenna but that does not pull it in. Tried regular rabbit ears but get nothing. Is there a specific type of antenna I need. Live outside nyc area so should be easy to pull in. Will try and change position of rabbit ears. Live in tow home so can't hang it outside. Need indoor antenna


MeTV from WJLP is transmitted on VHF-Lo frequency on channel 3 and is very difficult to pick up.


----------



## roseha

I'm in a Midtown Manhattan apartment. WJLP goes in and out for me (meaning it can break up a lot) frequently. I have to play with the various cables to correct the signal. The best practice I've found is to keep the indoor antenna cable away from touching any other cables, such as the TV/DVD power cables, as much as I possibly can.

I am currently using an HD Frequency Cable Cutter Indoor Outdoor HD Digital TV Antenna - Mini (CC-17M) inside the window, angled at the very edge of the window inside. I'm only 2 miles away from the transmitter, but it's definitely an iffy situation. When I fix the cables though the reception can stay good for awhile.


----------



## uhfyagi

roseha said:


> I'm in a Midtown Manhattan apartment. WJLP goes in and out for me (meaning it can break up a lot) frequently. I have to play with the various cables to correct the signal. The best practice I've found is to keep the indoor antenna cable away from touching any other cables, such as the TV/DVD power cables, as much as I possibly can.
> 
> I am currently using an HD Frequency Cable Cutter Indoor Outdoor HD Digital TV Antenna - Mini (CC-17M) inside the window, angled at the very edge of the window inside. I'm only 2 miles away from the transmitter, but it's definitely an iffy situation. When I fix the cables though the recepti
> on can stay good for awhile.


you need a larger antenna with longer elements to pick up
wjlp. anyone know why retro tv went missing on rf 32


----------



## unsmiley

nyctveng said:


> MeTV from WJLP is transmitted on VHF-Lo frequency on channel 3 and is very difficult to pick up.


You got that right!



roseha said:


> I'm in a Midtown Manhattan apartment. WJLP goes in and out for me (meaning it can break up a lot) frequently. I have to play with the various cables to correct the signal. The best practice I've found is to keep the indoor antenna cable away from touching any other cables, such as the TV/DVD power cables, as much as I possibly can.
> 
> I am currently using an HD Frequency Cable Cutter Indoor Outdoor HD Digital TV Antenna - Mini (CC-17M) inside the window, angled at the very edge of the window inside. I'm only 2 miles away from the transmitter, but it's definitely an iffy situation. When I fix the cables though the reception can stay good for awhile.


I too have constant problems with MeTV 33.1 in Manhattan. Always moving around my rabbit ears. Very frustrating.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

OTA is running great here in Murray hill , getting everything and have not had any down time for a bit now.
doing a rescan now to see if anything has been added.

just finished scanning and picked up 2 more channels

RETRO TV : 32.5
WXNY-LD : 32.6 - : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WXNY-LD


- MY TV CHANNEL LIST AS OF NOV 30 2015 MURRAY HILL NY 10016 ENGLISH ONLY - 
- ALSO I DO NOT ADD NON CHANNELS THAT HAVE NOTHING BUT COMMERCIALS - 
2.1 / 2.2 / 4.1 / 4.2 / 5.1 / 5.2 / 7.1 / 7.2 / 7.3 / 9.1 / 9.3 / 11.1 / 11.2 / 11.3 / 13.1 / 13.2 / 21.1 / 21.2 / 21.3 / 31.1 / 31.2 / 32.5 / 33.1 / 33.2 / 33.3 / 41.3 / 41.4 / 58.1 / 68.3 / 68.4


----------



## roseha

unsmiley said:


> I too have constant problems with MeTV 33.1 in Manhattan. Always moving around my rabbit ears. Very frustrating.



For what it's worth, I've just added the VHF Retrofit Kit, https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/VHF-Antenna-Kit.html 
from Antennas Direct. I've connected it to a ClearStream Micron Indoor HDTV Antenna. The idea is that you connect your antenna cable from the TV to the VHF kit, and the cable to the UHF antenna on another connection. They provide an extra cable for this, but since the Micron had the cable attached I just used that one, which is working fine. It's only been one day, but after I situated the VHF kit in the right spot in the window with some plastic stick on hooks, I'm getting Me-TV in fine again. Anyway, just a suggestion, it's a cheap enough solution.
I'm also using a shorter antenna cable from the TV to the window, probably less interference this way.


----------



## dell2015

uhfyagi said:


> you need a larger antenna with longer elements to pick up
> wjlp. anyone know why retro tv went missing on rf 32


with all the other sub channels, i did not even noticed that its gone!


----------



## dell2015

roseha said:


> For what it's worth, I've just added the VHF Retrofit Kit,from Antennas Direct. I've connected it to a ClearStream Micron Indoor HDTV Antenna. The idea is that you connect your antenna cable from the TV to the VHF kit, and the cable to the UHF antenna on another connection. They provide an extra cable for this, but since the Micron had the cable attached I just used that one, which is working fine. It's only been one day, but after I situated the VHF kit in the right spot in the window with some plastic stick on hooks, I'm getting Me-TV in fine again. Anyway, just a suggestion, it's a cheap enough solution.
> I'm also using a shorter antenna cable from the TV to the window, probably less interference this way.



can this be connected to any antenna?


----------



## dell2015

Trip in VA said:


> Nobody is on 1WTC as of now.
> 
> - Trip


so just to confirm, all antennas are on empire state and none are on WTC for any OTA channels?


----------



## LenL

*Wtc*

There are no broadcast antennas ready to go at 1WTC and nothing happening anytime soon. There may be some future plans but I haven't seen anything firm.

All TV broadcasting for the major locals is still from the Empire State Building.


----------



## dell2015

hello everyone, 

I need some help from all of you experts on which antenna i should buy.

Here is my tvfool, located in Plainview, NY
*http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b97da9846ada0f*

currently i am using a RCA 700f antenna, looks like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Audiovox-Corpo...dp/B00CH5FBTQ/


any help is appreciated.

i posted this in long island forum but realized, no one has posted there since last year, so posting here.
if you think i need to post this in another forum please do let me know . thanks


----------



## dstoffa

dell2015 said:


> hello everyone,
> 
> I need some help from all of you experts on which antenna i should buy.
> 
> Here is my tvfool, located in Plainview, NY
> *http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b97da9846ada0f*
> 
> currently i am using a RCA 700f antenna, looks like this one:
> http://www.amazon.com/Audiovox-Corpo...dp/B00CH5FBTQ/
> 
> 
> any help is appreciated.
> 
> i posted this in long island forum but realized, no one has posted there since last year, so posting here.
> if you think i need to post this in another forum please do let me know . thanks


The antenna you have selected is designed to receive VHF-Hi and UHF. If you want to pick up WJLP (MeTV), you will need a VHF-Lo antenna.

Are you planning an outdoor installation?


----------



## dell2015

dstoffa said:


> The antenna you have selected is designed to receive VHF-Hi and UHF. If you want to pick up WJLP (MeTV), you will need a VHF-Lo antenna.
> 
> Are you planning an outdoor installation?



i actually have this one outdoor about 20 ft up. but i am not getting channel 7, 9.1, 11, 13 and 31.

so i was trying to find out something thats not too big to reduce wind load and at the same time get all these channels.


----------



## Aero 1

dell2015 said:


> i actually have this one outdoor about 20 ft up. but i am not getting channel 7, 9.1, 11, 13 and 31.
> 
> so i was trying to find out something thats not too big to reduce wind load and at the same time get all these channels.


get rid of that thing and get a real antenna. i always recommend an Antennas Direct Clearstream 2V to people. it has the vhf element in order for you to get 7, 11, 13. I just helped a friend father than you in NJ with a AD CS 2v and she gets everything, even Me TV thats on the lo-VHF range, with Newark Airport in the path of ESB.


----------



## dell2015

Aero 1 said:


> get rid of that thing and get a real antenna. i always recommend an Antennas Direct Clearstream 2V to people. it has the vhf element in order for you to get 7, 11, 13. I just helped a friend father than you in NJ with a AD CS 2v and she gets everything, even Me TV thats on the lo-VHF range, with Newark Airport in the path of ESB.



do i need a preamp?


----------



## Aero 1

dell2015 said:


> do i need a preamp?


most likely not.


----------



## dstoffa

Aero 1 said:


> get rid of that thing and get a real antenna. i always recommend an Antennas Direct Clearstream 2V to people. it has the vhf element in order for you to get 7, 11, 13. I just helped a friend father than you in NJ with a AD CS 2v and she gets everything, even Me TV thats on the lo-VHF range, with Newark Airport in the path of ESB.


Winegard HD-1080 is also on sale at Solid Signal for $30. It might do fine for your needs.


----------



## dell2015

dstoffa said:


> Winegard HD-1080 is also on sale at Solid Signal for $30. It might do fine for your needs.


some reviews are pretty bad for high vhf, and if i am not mistaken, some of my channels are on hi vhf? so maybe its not a good option?
and it says upto 40 miles, so would that not be a little out of range for my location?


i called antennas direct and they recommended Clearstream C2V but also said if i wanted more signal i can go for Clearstream 4.


i appreciate each and every one of you trying to help.


----------



## Aero 1

dell2015 said:


> some reviews are pretty bad for high vhf, and if i am not mistaken, some of my channels are on hi vhf? so maybe its not a good option?
> and it says upto 40 miles, so would that not be a little out of range for my location?
> 
> 
> i called antennas direct and they recommended Clearstream C2V but also said if i wanted more signal i can go for Clearstream 4.
> 
> 
> i appreciate each and every one of you trying to help.


yes, ABC, CW and PBS 13 are on the Hi VHF band. MeTv channel 33 is on the lo VHF channel 3 which requires a much larger antenna that does lo VHF. But ME tv is such a strong signal that using the C2V seems to work, for my friend anyway. 

The clearstream 4 is a UHF only antenna, you will get "more signal" (AD's words) on the UHF band only. you will still need an vhf element like the vhf kit: https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/VHF-Antenna-Kit.html


----------



## dstoffa

dell2015 said:


> some reviews are pretty bad for high vhf, and if i am not mistaken, some of my channels are on hi vhf? so maybe its not a good option?
> and it says upto 40 miles, so would that not be a little out of range for my location?


I personally have no experience with the antenna, but I offered it as a suggestion. It would seem that the medium range suburban TV antennas from long ago are no longer available.

I live in SW Nassau (well, used to), and installed a "classic" VHF/UHF antenna on the chimney as a result of Sandy. Want to say its a Winegard HD 7015... It's been a while. Although the power came back, CATV did not, and I had to fish old rabbit ears out the window to get anything. Once I put the antenna on the roof, I picked up all the NYC station, the NJTV PBS Stations, and WZME from CT, all by aiming at ESB. I do have an indoor amp where the lead enteres the house, but no pre-amp up on the mast.

If you go with the CS2 w/ the VHF retoro-fit, you should be fine. Unless the C4 comes with the dipole, I wouldn't bother.



> i called antennas direct and they recommended Clearstream C2V but also said if i wanted more signal i can go for Clearstream 4.
> 
> 
> i appreciate each and every one of you trying to help.


----------



## dell2015

dstoffa said:


> I personally have no experience with the antenna, but I offered it as a suggestion. It would seem that the medium range suburban TV antennas from long ago are no longer available.
> 
> I live in SW Nassau (well, used to), and installed a "classic" VHF/UHF antenna on the chimney as a result of Sandy. Want to say its a Winegard HD 7015... It's been a while. Although the power came back, CATV did not, and I had to fish old rabbit ears out the window to get anything. Once I put the antenna on the roof, I picked up all the NYC station, the NJTV PBS Stations, and WZME from CT, all by aiming at ESB. I do have an indoor amp where the lead enteres the house, but no pre-amp up on the mast.
> 
> If you go with the CS2 w/ the VHF retoro-fit, you should be fine. Unless the C4 comes with the dipole, I wouldn't bother.



the rep said i can get the VHF antenna to connect to the C4, so its not an issue, can be purchsed and added to it. but it seems lots of people are recommending the CS2 and the reviews look very good, so maybe i will get the CS2?
when comparing the CS2 and CS4, which one is more directional or are they both the same(what i am trying to find is if one antenna can get signal from everything in a 40 degree angle whereas the other one can only get it from a 20 degree angle, and will miss other towers.)

i was also reading some of the threads and found Winegard HD7694P High Definition VHF/UHF Antenna. Is this a better antenna for me? 

am i correct in assuming that the CS2 has the least wind load, CS4 next and the winegard 7694 will have the most wind load?

it seems like the CS2 and 7694 can be had for about the same price of around $60.


----------



## Aero 1

dell2015 said:


> the rep said i can get the VHF antenna to connect to the C4, so its not an issue, can be purchsed and added to it. but it seems lots of people are recommending the CS2 and the reviews look very good, so maybe i will get the CS2?
> 
> i was also reading some of the threads and found Winegard HD7694P High Definition VHF/UHF Antenna. Is this a better antenna for me?
> 
> am i correct in assuming that the CS2 has the least wind load, CS4 next and the winegard 7694 will have the most wind load?
> 
> it seems like the CS2 and 7694 can be had for about the same price of around $60.


he is right that you can connect extra antennas, ive had an AD DB4 joined with an AD CS5 for over 5 years strapped to my chimney, i later added a lo Vhf Antenna Craft y526 antenna in my attic and joined it to them. why are you so worried about wind load? if you mount it correctly, it wont be a problem. my antennas have survived Hurricanes Irene and Sandy, countless snow and wind storms.


----------



## dstoffa

Aero 1 said:


> he is right that you can connect extra antennas, ive had an AD DB4 joined with an AD CS5 for over 5 years strapped to my chimney, i later added a lo Vhf Antenna Craft y526 antenna in my attic and joined it to them. why are you so worried about wind load? if you mount it correctly, it wont be a problem. my antennas have survived Hurricanes Irene and Sandy, countless snow and wind storms.


Agreed. The biggest problem I have had with the antenna I installed was that it became a pigeon perch... and a fat pigeon resting on the end of a long VHF-Lo element is no more... But the rest of the antenna remains.

Since you aren't installed an antenna with 50+" elements on it, birds shouldn't be an issue.

I prefer the more classic looking antenna. You will probably do fine with either.


----------



## dell2015

dstoffa said:


> Agreed. The biggest problem I have had with the antenna I installed was that it became a pigeon perch... and a fat pigeon resting on the end of a long VHF-Lo element is no more... But the rest of the antenna remains.
> 
> Since you aren't installed an antenna with 50+" elements on it, birds shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> I prefer the more classic looking antenna. You will probably do fine with either.



is it just the looks or does one get more signal than the other?


----------



## dstoffa

dell2015 said:


> is it just the looks or does one get more signal than the other?


You will need to make your own judgement. But the factors you should consider, when selecting an antenna, are gain and beampath. You may also wish to consider front-to-back ratio if you are 180 degrees apart from two antenna farms....

That being written, if your goal is to optimize your reception for the NYC Stations broadcasting from ESB / 4TS, while ignoring stations that may be to the left or to the right, and those out east (TV 55) and the Connecticut stations, then you would NOT consider beampath width as a priority. You would look at gain. Consider the stations you wish to receive, and select the antenna that offers the greatest gain for the frequencies you plan to receive, realizing that more may NOT be better, but could be overkill. Being out in Plainview, I'd probably select the antenna that provides the highest gain at a given price point. If you don't want to install a pre-amp, then it's better to select the antenna with the better / higher gain. Since you are having trouble receiving the Hi-VHF Stations from NYC (7, 11, 13), select the antenna which has the better gain for those channels. I would think that the UHF segments are probably comparable to each other.

There should be spec sheets for these antennas. Download them and do the math.

In the end, both may provide adequate signal, but one may provide a better signal than the other, and will be more forgiving for other things like foliage and weather...


----------



## LenL

dell2015 said:


> i actually have this one outdoor about 20 ft up. but i am not getting channel 7, 9.1, 11, 13 and 31.
> 
> so i was trying to find out something thats not too big to reduce wind load and at the same time get all these channels.


From my experience if you want the best in VHF reception your best option is a VHF only antenna mounted as high as you can get it. You can combine the VHF with a UHF antenna mounted lower.

I have one of the best antennas out there. A CM4228 that is supposed to be a UHF/VHF antenna. Later in search of better VHF reception I bought a separate VHF antenna and found I got much better VHF results.


----------



## dstoffa

LenL said:


> From my experience if you want the best in VHF reception your best option is a VHF only antenna mounted as high as you can get it. You can combine the VHF with a UHF antenna mounted lower.
> 
> I have one of the best antennas out there. A CM4228 that is supposed to be a UHF/VHF antenna. Later in search of better VHF reception I bought a separate VHF antenna and found I got much better VHF results.


The antenna you cite (CM 4228) is a great UHF antenna. It is not a VHF Antenna, but many had success in the past with it, but not so much with the current incarnation.

http://www.antennahacks.com/comparisons/cm4228new_vs_cm4228old.htm
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/cm4228.html
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html

Dell, visit this site and read all about it: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html


----------



## ALP

Does anyone know if there will be any local broadcast (OTA) coverage of the Monday night (December 14th) Giants versus Dolphins football game which is carried on ESPN (cable only obviously)? I hope it will not be CBS since they will move their regular programs to their Long Island affiliate who's broadcast signal does not reach most of Westchester.


----------



## dvdchance

ALP said:


> Does anyone know if there will be any local broadcast (OTA) coverage of the Monday night (December 14th) Giants versus Dolphins football game which is carried on ESPN (cable only obviously)? I hope it will not be CBS since they will move their regular programs to their Long Island affiliate who's broadcast signal does not reach most of Westchester.


Looks like it will be on WABC TV7. http://www.giants.com/broadcast-info.html


----------



## LenL

dstoffa said:


> The antenna you cite (CM 4228) is a great UHF antenna. It is not a VHF Antenna, but many had success in the past with it, but not so much with the current incarnation.
> 
> http://www.antennahacks.com/comparisons/cm4228new_vs_cm4228old.htm
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/cm4228.html
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html
> 
> Dell, visit this site and read all about it: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html


When we made the digital transition way back when I bought a CM4228 for my mother who lives in Dover NJ in Morris County and she gets great UHF and VHF reception with the CM4228. All the VHF stations (7.1, 11.1 and 13.1) come in strong. At that time the CM4228 was called a UHF/VHF antenna and given decent ratings.

So I ditched cable and did the same but I am in a more difficult reception area even though I am only about a mile from her. I did get the VHF stations but had trouble at times with 11.1 and 13.1. A few years back I went with a dedicated VHF antenna and improved reception for VHF. That was after much research on getting better VHF.


----------



## LenL

*Cm4228*



dstoffa said:


> The antenna you cite (CM 4228) is a great UHF antenna. It is not a VHF Antenna, but many had success in the past with it, but not so much with the current incarnation.
> 
> http://www.antennahacks.com/comparisons/cm4228new_vs_cm4228old.htm
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/cm4228.html
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html
> 
> Dell, visit this site and read all about it: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html


When we made the digital transition way back when I bought a CM4228 for my mother who lives in Dover NJ in Morris County and she gets great UHF and VHF reception with the CM4228. All the VHF stations (7.1, 11.1 and 13.1) come in strong. At that time the CM4228 was called a UHF/VHF antenna and given decent ratings.

So I ditched cable and did the same but I am in a more difficult reception area even though I am only about a mile from her. I did get the VHF stations but had trouble at times with 11.1 and 13.1. A few years back I went with a dedicated VHF antenna and improved reception for VHF. That was after much research on getting better VHF.


----------



## Aero 1

ALP said:


> Does anyone know if there will be any local broadcast (OTA) coverage of the Monday night (December 14th) Giants versus Dolphins football game which is carried on ESPN (cable only obviously)? I hope it will not be CBS since they will move their regular programs to their Long Island affiliate who's broadcast signal does not reach most of Westchester.


FYI, a local football team MUST always be shown on a broadcast network in their local market when its on a cable channel. I might be wrong in this, but i think the Jets have a deal with CBS and WPIX and the Giants have one with WWOR and WABC.


----------



## ALP

dvdchance said:


> Looks like it will be on WABC TV7. http://www.giants.com/broadcast-info.html


Thank you, some how my search for who would carry it missed what you found. ABC has nothing on this Monday that interest me so there will be no conflict if I decide to watch the game. Thanks again!


----------



## dell2015

i did some research on some antennas including the ones mentioned here. can someone please help me understand these details such as bandwidth, gain, front to back ratio, return loss etc... in the table below.

this is what i understood of gain and dB, the more gain means the more signal the antenna provides to the tv/catches more signal from air. 
negative dB is bad, positive is good, the higher the numbers, the more signal the antenna will provide?


here is the table. 
if you have any other antenna recommendations, please let me know. so far based on research, i think either a Clearstream C2v or a RCA 751R or Winegard 7694p are my choices. 

text table was all mixed up after posting, so i am posting pictures of it instead.


----------



## dstoffa

dell2015 said:


> i did some research on some antennas including the ones mentioned here. can someone please help me understand these details such as bandwidth, gain, front to back ratio, return loss etc... in the table below.


Bandwidth corresponds to the frequencies the antenna is designed to receive. A 6 MHz block of spectrum corresponds to one TV "Channel".

VHF-Lo occupies 54 MHz to 88 MHz
VHF-Hi occupies 174 MHz to 216 MHz
UHF occupies frequencies above 460 MHz

In NYC, CBS, NBC, Fox, and WWOR broadcast in the UHF band, no matter how they brand themselves.
ABC, WPIX, and WNET are in the VHF-Hi band.
WJLP (MeTV) broadcasts in teh VHF-Lo band.

Front-to-Back Ratio - Don't worry about it. It really only comes into play when you need to reject interference from a broadcast antenna in the opposite direction.



> this is what i understood of gain and dB, the more gain means the more signal the antenna provides to the tv/catches more signal from air.
> negative dB is bad, positive is good, the higher the numbers, the more signal the antenna will provide?


Yes. But a negative dB is not necesarily bad, depending on the strength of the broadcast signal at your location, and it's typically an number compared to a standard folded dipole.

the hdtvprimer web site has a lot of information and a detailed glossary.


----------



## ALP

dell2015 said:


> i did some research on some antennas including the ones mentioned here. can someone please help me understand these details such as bandwidth, gain, front to back ratio, return loss etc... in the table below.
> 
> this is what i understood of gain and dB, the more gain means the more signal the antenna provides to the tv/catches more signal from air.
> negative dB is bad, positive is good, the higher the numbers, the more signal the antenna will provide?
> 
> 
> here is the table.
> if you have any other antenna recommendations, please let me know. so far based on research, i think either a Clearstream C2v or a RCA 751R or Winegard 7694p are my choices.
> 
> text table was all mixed up after posting, so i am posting pictures of it instead.


This first website will help with gain and dB's

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/basics.html

this one will help with front-to-back ratio

https://www.tselectronic.com/tech_notes/antenna_spec.php

All TV antennas have the same bandwidth, do not worry about it.

How far from the ESB are you?


----------



## dell2015

ALP said:


> This first website will help with gain and dB's
> 
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/basics.html
> 
> this one will help with front-to-back ratio
> 
> https://www.tselectronic.com/tech_notes/antenna_spec.php
> 
> All TV antennas have the same bandwidth, do not worry about it.
> 
> How far from the ESB are you?


 i guess maybe 35-40 miles?

I am in plainview, long island, NY 11801
i have posted my tvfool some posts back. here is the link as well:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3db97da9846ada0f


----------



## dell2015

ALP said:


> This first website will help with gain and dB's
> 
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/basics.html
> 
> this one will help with front-to-back ratio
> 
> https://www.tselectronic.com/tech_notes/antenna_spec.php
> 
> All TV antennas have the same bandwidth, do not worry about it.
> 
> How far from the ESB are you?


thanks for the links, learned quite a lot about the terminology.


----------



## dell2015

homedepot is selling a Winegard freevision antenna in store. i think i am going to pick one up and install it to see how it works out. 

how do these three antennas compare? Freevision vs the RCA 751R vs Channel master Stealthtenna 50?



http://www.winegard.com/freevision

http://www.channelmaster.com/STEALTHtenna_Digital_HDTV_Outdoor_TV_Antenna_p/cm-3010hd.htm

http://www.rcaantennas.net/outdoor/?sku=ANT751R


----------



## Wappingers.dx

Hi Dell, from your location I would run the Winegard HD7694P


But if you really wanna gild the lily, slap a rotor and a preamp under this sucker Winegard HD7084 

I'm kinda old school when it comes with antennas and don't mind how they look up on my roof.

Cheers


----------



## LenL

*The answer*



dell2015 said:


> homedepot is selling a Winegard freevision antenna in store. i think i am going to pick one up and install it to see how it works out.
> 
> how do these three antennas compare? Freevision vs the RCA 751R vs Channel master Stealthtenna 50?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.winegard.com/freevision
> 
> http://www.channelmaster.com/STEALTHtenna_Digital_HDTV_Outdoor_TV_Antenna_p/cm-3010hd.htm
> 
> http://www.rcaantennas.net/outdoor/?sku=ANT751R


Is probably what your real life experience is. Often opinions are helpful but actually installing it and seeing what the results are is more important. Make sure wherever you buy it that they have a return policy so that if you are not happy you can return it!

There are websites that review antennas and I am sure you went to the site that tells you what you need for your location! I would not put a rotor or preamp on it unless you really need it. Less is sometimes better than more when it comes to OTA reception.

Also if you are 35-40 miles out you might need bigger antennas than the ones you are looking at to get strong and quality reception.


----------



## reddice

Aero 1 said:


> FYI, a local football team MUST always be shown on a broadcast network in their local market when its on a cable channel. I might be wrong in this, but i think the Jets have a deal with CBS and WPIX and the Giants have one with WWOR and WABC.


WWOR should have all the local simulcasted sports games as there is never anything worth watching on myNetwork TV (cop TV2 ION is cop tv1). Never should it be on a major network station.


----------



## Wappingers.dx

reddice said:


> WWOR should have all the local simulcasted sports games as there is never anything worth watching on myNetwork TV (cop TV2 ION is cop tv1). Never should it be on a major network station.


As a frustrated Giants fan and seeing as I can pick up WWOR no mater which way my antenna is pointing... I agree with you 100% 

That WABC 7 just doesn't make the trip up here in Wappingers to well


----------



## unsmiley

p0tsm0ke said:


> OTA is running great here in Murray hill , getting everything and have not had any down time for a bit now.
> doing a rescan now to see if anything has been added.
> 
> just finished scanning and picked up 2 more channels
> 
> RETRO TV : 32.5
> WXNY-LD : 32.6 - : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WXNY-LD
> 
> 
> - MY TV CHANNEL LIST AS OF NOV 30 2015 MURRAY HILL NY 10016 ENGLISH ONLY -
> - ALSO I DO NOT ADD NON CHANNELS THAT HAVE NOTHING BUT COMMERCIALS -
> 2.1 / 2.2 / 4.1 / 4.2 / 5.1 / 5.2 / 7.1 / 7.2 / 7.3 / 9.1 / 9.3 / 11.1 / 11.2 / 11.3 / 13.1 / 13.2 / 21.1 / 21.2 / 21.3 / 31.1 / 31.2 / 32.5 / 33.1 / 33.2 / 33.3 / 41.3 / 41.4 / 58.1 / 68.3 / 68.4


You mean you are getting WLIW in Manhattan? I thought that was impossible (according to many in this forum). How do you do it? I wish I could could get WLIW and Channel 55.


----------



## unsmiley

roseha said:


> For what it's worth, I've just added the VHF Retrofit Kit, https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/VHF-Antenna-Kit.html
> from Antennas Direct. I've connected it to a ClearStream Micron Indoor HDTV Antenna. The idea is that you connect your antenna cable from the TV to the VHF kit, and the cable to the UHF antenna on another connection. They provide an extra cable for this, but since the Micron had the cable attached I just used that one, which is working fine. It's only been one day, but after I situated the VHF kit in the right spot in the window with some plastic stick on hooks, I'm getting Me-TV in fine again. Anyway, just a suggestion, it's a cheap enough solution.
> I'm also using a shorter antenna cable from the TV to the window, probably less interference this way.


I think that is useful for antennas that do not have VHF ability. I *think* my cheapo rabbit ears has both - it has a pair of rabbit ears as well as a circular antenna (I believe) to pick up both UHF and VHF. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## roseha

unsmiley said:


> I think that is useful for antennas that do not have VHF ability. I *think* my cheapo rabbit ears has both - it has a pair of rabbit ears as well as a circular antenna (I believe) to pick up both UHF and VHF. Correct me if I am wrong.


Yes, the rabbit ears do pick up both UHF and VHF, I had an RCA model that did both. However, now that I'm using the VHF attachment I mentioned above I'm getting many more channels consistently, at least most of the time. I can get MeTV over Channel 3/33-1, along with Channels 7-1, 11-1 (and Antenna TV on 11-2), 13-1, all VHF, (and as of today ION on 31-1 which was breaking up over the weekend, is fine as well). I also get the usual NYC UHF channels over the air, CBS, NBC etc. I think it was worth the small investment. Before I couldn't get all of these at the same time. I even get Retro on 42-7 though I don't know what's playing on it since my Tivo has no information.


----------



## ALP

Does anyone here have any insight into why all of the major college football bowl games are being carried in ESPN instead of the national broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox)? Did ESPN out bid the networks or what??


----------



## StudioTech

ALP said:


> Does anyone here have any insight into why all of the major college football bowl games are being carried in ESPN instead of the national broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox)? Did ESPN out bid the networks or what??


3 years ago.

http://www.si.com/si-wire/2012/11/21/espn-12-year-agreement-college-football-playoff

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...-12year-deal-to-air-college-football-playoffs


----------



## ALP

StudioTech said:


> 3 years ago.
> 
> http://www.si.com/si-wire/2012/11/21/espn-12-year-agreement-college-football-playoff
> 
> http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...-12year-deal-to-air-college-football-playoffs


Thanks for the input, this really sucks for OTA viewers. I guess the major networks just weren't willing to pony up that kind of money.


----------



## Wappingers.dx

Out of curiosity how many 720p subchannels could you fit on one UHF channel?


----------



## Wappingers.dx

*WCBS-TV Moving to 1 World Trade Center*

Looks like WCBS-TV will be moving over to 1 World Trade Center. 

Broadcasting 1702 feet above ground should really help improve reception, unless you're in Connecticut of course 

http://fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=TV&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=1250423


----------



## reddice

Wappingers.dx said:


> Looks like WCBS-TV will be moving over to 1 World Trade Center.
> 
> Broadcasting 1702 feet above ground should really help improve reception, unless you're in Connecticut of course
> 
> http://fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=TV&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=1250423


About time. It is a start. I really hope channel 31 and 41 move to 1WTC. Right now channel 31 on the ESB has a horrible signal. I can get LP stations stronger.


----------



## roseha

I read the link, thanks but did it say anywhere when CBS would make the move? For some reason it occasionally starts to break up on me, which is strange, since it's a major network and I live in midtown Manhattan.


----------



## LenL

Wappingers.dx said:


> Looks like WCBS-TV will be moving over to 1 World Trade Center.
> 
> Broadcasting 1702 feet above ground should really help improve reception, unless you're in Connecticut of course
> 
> http://fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=TV&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=1250423


I think you are way too optimistic and are reading much too much into this. Doing an internet search I could not find anything supporting any plans to broadcast from 1WTC anytime in the future by any TV Station.
Besides that there is no way of knowing if this would improve or impact your current TV viewing. It is naïve to assume the move would improve reception.


----------



## LenL

I may have been the exception but I was amazed at how good reception was during the storm on Sat. No issues at all.


----------



## unsmiley

LenL said:


> I may have been the exception but I was amazed at how good reception was during the storm on Sat. No issues at all.


Same here -- no reception problems during the storm.


----------



## unsmiley

LenL said:


> I may have been the exception but I was amazed at how good reception was during the storm on Sat. No issues at all.


Same here -- no reception problems during the storm.


----------



## cnsf

I live out in Northern Westchester and am pulling in all the UHF channels with no problem (WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR). I tried various VHF antennas with no luck at all to get the other three big networks (WABC, WPIX and WNET). 

Any idea if/when the VHF-Hi networks in NYC will move to UHF?


----------



## mets18

cnsf said:


> Any idea if/when the VHF-Hi networks in NYC will move to UHF?


 It's actually more likely that you will see UHF stations move to VHF after the spectrum auctions. The UHF frequencies are more valuable to the wireless companies.


----------



## uhfyagi

mets18 said:


> It's actually more likely that you will see UHF stations move to VHF after the spectrum auctions. The UHF frequencies are more valuable to the wireless companies.


most if not all vhf hi channel space is allready taken.
I dont see any uhf station auctioning off here in nyc.


----------



## NYC10033

cnsf said:


> I live out in Northern Westchester and am pulling in all the UHF channels with no problem (WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR). I tried various VHF antennas with no luck at all to get the other three big networks (WABC, WPIX and WNET).


I'm in Manhattan by the George Washington Bridge and I also no longer get WABC, WPIX or WNET. But I do get WOR. 9-* with an indoor gold bowtie antenna. I lost WABC/WPIC/WNET 1+ years ago.

Anyone know if channel 4 or other stations drop their transmit power after 12AM??? Can't blame the leaves. I also notice that if the picture freezes, sometimes I hear a plane/helicopter flying nearby. When it's gone, the picture returns.

Several times I'm watching a show on 4-2 after 12AM and all of a sudden the picture freezes and goes blank - going in and out.


----------



## nyctveng

NYC10033 said:


> I'm in Manhattan by the George Washington Bridge and I also no longer get WABC, WPIX or WNET. But I do get WOR. 9-* with an indoor gold bowtie antenna. I lost WABC/WPIC/WNET 1+ years ago.
> 
> Anyone know if channel 4 or other stations drop their transmit power after 12AM??? Can't blame the leaves. I also notice that if the picture freezes, sometimes I hear a plane/helicopter flying nearby. When it's gone, the picture returns.
> 
> Several times I'm watching a show on 4-2 after 12AM and all of a sudden the picture freezes and goes blank - going in and out.



There is regular maintenance at ESB from various stations that have transmitters that occur after 12am. Some reduce power or transmit from a backup site. I believe WNBC has a backup in West Orange, NJ.


----------



## reddice

So are any stations are on 1WTC? I am asking because some OTA channels are stronger then they were months ago.


----------



## Trip in VA

Nope.

- Trip


----------



## reddice

Trip in VA said:


> Nope.
> 
> - Trip


How would anyone really know unless they work for the TV networks.


----------



## Aero 1

lol


----------



## LenL

reddice said:


> How would anyone really know unless they work for the TV networks.


You are kidding right?
There are NO immediate plans to broadcast from 1WTC. So don’t hold your breath or plan on it any time soon!
Trip is our resident forum expert on broadcasting in the NYC area.


----------



## Trip in VA

The only broadcasts that have ever come off the new 1WTC were experimental overnight broadcasts on channels 12 and 32. Those ended quite a while ago.

Nobody is building anything while the Incentive Auction looms (unless there's a catastrophic failure). No sensible station is going to build a brand new facility just to potentially have to rip it all out and replace it next year, especially since any change of channel ordered by the government will be paid for by the government at that time.

Would you buy a new car now if there was a good chance the government would buy you a new car next year?

- Trip


----------



## LenL

So we are probably talking about 2018 at the earliest for any plans to broadcast from 1WTC.


----------



## LenL

preamp versus distro amp

Will they both behave the same way regarding amplifying noise and signal? I use both. I use a preamp with one DVR+ and I use a distro amp with the other DVR+. Two different antennas are in play. I seem to have more noise with the preamp than the distro amp when I look at what the DVR+ is saying. 

This isn’t scientific I know. Any opinions on this?


----------



## uhfyagi

reddice said:


> How would anyone really know unless they work for the TV networks.


I think you would know youre reception on your local channels would dramatically change some would come in better othets worst and it would be permanent.


----------



## uhfyagi

LenL said:


> preamp versus distro amp
> 
> Will they both behave the same way regarding amplifying noise and signal? I use both. I use a preamp with one DVR+ and I use a distro amp with the other DVR+. Two different antennas are in play. I seem to have more noise with the preamp than the distro amp when I look at what the DVR+ is saying.
> 
> This isn’t scientific I know. Any opinions on this?


from my experience a mast mounted preamp works better than distro amp if connected to an antenna it has to be cause the signal is being amplified at the source rather than after the cable run.


----------



## LenL

Let me ask this another way.

If you have good signal and low noise coming into the house and you need to now get the signal to more than one TV will you get more noise by a preamp at the antenna and using a passive splitter in the house or will you get less noise by not using a preamp at the antenna and using a distro amp in the house instead of a passive splitter?


----------



## uhfyagi

I would use a dist amp if signal is good coming to house. using a preamp would likely cause overload if you're in urban environment. If youre more than 30 miles then preamp would be the way to go. I presently using antennas direct juice which is the best preamp out in the market . http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-907a/k2-_b7f5107e-a8d7-4ede-88fe-30dc260c8427.v1.jpg


----------



## Aero 1

https://twitter.com/alexweprin/status/700063573658202112



> Inbox: One World Trade Center will host new broadcast towers for NBC, CBS and PBS. Marks return of broadcast to WTC after 9/11.


https://twitter.com/alexweprin/status/700065057510727680


----------



## Aero 1

http://rew-online.com/2016/02/17/broadcasters-return-to-1-world-trade-center-after-14-year-absence/



> *Broadcasters return to 1 World Trade Center after 14-year absence*
> 
> The Durst Organization today announced that CBS, NBCUniversal-owned WNBC and WNJU and PBS will relocate their broadcasting operations to the 408-foot-tall spire of One World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan.
> 
> 1WTC
> 1 WTC
> The historic development marks the return of network and radio broadcasting to the 1,776-foot One World Trade Center after an absence of more than 14-years.
> 
> The broadcasters will use One World Trade Center as their primary broadcast facility for the New York/New Jersey market. Broadcast antennae will wrap portions of the spire and ancillary equipment will be housed on the building’s communications rings. The tower’s 90th floor will house broadcasters’ transmission equipment and serve the communications hub for the building.
> 
> One World Trade Center’s 1,776-foot height allows broadcasters unprecedented coverage for their signal and the building’s state-of-the-art communications and technology infrastructure provides a full-service and seamless broadcast facility.
> 
> “We are very proud to welcome CBS, NBCUniversal-owned WNBC and WNJU and PBS back to One World Trade Center,” said John Lyons, Assistant Vice President and Director of Broadcast Communications for The Durst Organization. “Our world-class facility will provide the infrastructure and service our tenants need to maximize their broadcast operations. We look forward to working with other potential broadcasters and telecommunications companies and introducing them to our facility at One World Trade Center.”
> 
> “One World Trade Center provides an outstanding broadcast facility and we look forward to more tenants joining us at our excellent facility,” said Jonathan (Jody) Durst, President of The Durst Organization.
> 
> JODY DURST
> JODY DURST
> All of the broadcasters had previously broadcast from One World Trade Center prior to September 11, 2001.
> 
> Rosenberg & Estis, P. C. was legal counsel. Robert Becker and John Lyons handled the negotiations for Durst Broadcasting LLC.
> 
> In addition to the broadcasters, the tower recently reached a major milestone by surpassing two million square feet of leased office space, an accomplishment equivalent to the full lease-up of two major Manhattan skyscrapers. One World Trade Center now includes a roster of 25 office tenants representing such business sectors as media, technology, financial services, advertising, and biotechnology.
> 
> Among the property’s largest tenants, global publishing giant Condé Nast, the anchor tenant, has 1.2-million-square-foot headquarters between the 20th and 44th floors. The General Services Administration has approximately 273,000 square feet on floors 50 to 55, online gaming company High 5 Games occupies 87,663 square feet on floors 58 and 59, location-focused mobile advertising firm xAd occupies 86,517 square feet on floors 60 and 61, and financial services giant Moody’s has signed a lease for 75,312 square feet on floors 56 and 57.
> 
> Executive suites firm Servcorp occupies approximately 35,000 square feet on the 85th floor, China Center New York holds approximately 33,000 square feet on the 89th floor, and One World Observatory has approximately 115,000 square feet on 100-102 and lobby floors.
> 
> One World Trade Center will provide direct, weather-protected connections to 11 subway lines, the PATH train, and the Hudson River ferries. In addition, the West Concourse pedestrian walkway — which connects the World Trade Center campus to Brookfield Place and Battery Park City — now offers access to the World Trade Center Transportation Hub and to the entrance to One World Observatory. It will soon also provide access to 125 shops being developed by Westfield, including restaurants, and services, and the new MTA Fulton Transit Center on Broadway.
> 
> Designed to achieve LEED CS Gold Certification, One World Trade Center is poised to become the most environmentally sustainable project of its size in the world.
> 
> Developed by The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, One World Trade Center is managed, operated, and leased by The Durst Organization.


----------



## LenL

*No dates*

Did you happen to notice that there was a glaring omission? Dates. This all is meaningless when dates are not committed too or even estimated.
I’ll stick with my original thought…..not before 2018.


----------



## uhfyagi

LenL said:


> Did you happen to notice that there was a glaring omission? Dates. This all is meaningless when dates are not committed too or even estimated.
> I’ll stick with my original thought…..not before 2018.


2018? are you kidding not likeky till 2020 the way the networks took their time with the analog cutoff and fcc selling off uhf bandwidth. leave things alone if not broken why fix it, my reception is great from esb.


----------



## LenL

Maybe I am an optimist with my 2018 date. We shall see.

I think there is maybe too much optimism that reception will be better with TV broadcasting from 1WTC too.

It will not be very good for some of us if there is broadcasting from both 1WTC and some from the ESB. Might have to re-aim antennas to find the sweet spot which may not necessarily be the best for reception from either location.

In that case it is a lose -lose situation!


----------



## Trip in VA

Anyone, especially those north and west of Manhattan, seeing RF channel 20 on the air? W19EH-D filed to cover their permit to move to channel 20 on Trump Tower.

http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=2002585&map=Y

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> Anyone, especially those north and west of Manhattan, seeing RF channel 20 on the air? W19EH-D filed to cover their permit to move to channel 20 on Trump Tower.
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=2002585&map=Y
> 
> - Trip


No....not yet. I will keep looking.


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> Anyone, especially those north and west of Manhattan, seeing RF channel 20 on the air? W19EH-D filed to cover their permit to move to channel 20 on Trump Tower.
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=2002585&map=Y
> 
> - Trip


I'm 17 miles north west in NJ in the red according to your map and this is what i get, signal strength jumps from 0 to no higher than 36% and quality jumps from 0 to 61%.


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> Anyone, especially those north and west of Manhattan, seeing RF channel 20 on the air? W19EH-D filed to cover their permit to move to channel 20 on Trump Tower.
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=2002585&map=Y
> 
> - Trip


I'm mobile at the moment and happen to be near Trump and getting W20EF-D. PSIP 27-1 Infomercials, 27-2 Jewelry TV.


----------



## uhfyagi

I want to know if most viewrs are able to receive 32-4,5 revn retro tv respectively. for some odd reason i get a weak signal alot of times they show some old stuff ei.. route 66, naked city. I dig old shows their well written good dramas. right now I watch combat religiously on h&i.


----------



## unsmiley

uhfyagi said:


> I want to know if most viewrs are able to receive 32-4,5 revn retro tv respectively. for some odd reason i get a weak signal alot of times they show some old stuff ei.. route 66, naked city. I dig old shows their well written good dramas. right now I watch combat religiously on h&i.


 No, terrible in my part of Manhattan. Neither come in at all on my old living room tv, and I get very choppy (unwatchable) reception on another, newer tv in the bedroom.


----------



## uhfyagi

unsmiley said:


> No, terrible in my part of Manhattan. Neither come in at all on my old living room tv, and I get very choppy (unwatchable) reception on another, newer tv in the bedroom.


believe that wnyx ch32 is low powered, other subs are multi-language. Wonder if this channel is candidate for bandwidth crunch.


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> Let me ask this another way.
> 
> If you have good signal and low noise coming into the house and you need to now get the signal to more than one TV will you get more noise by a preamp at the antenna and using a passive splitter in the house or will you get less noise by not using a preamp at the antenna and using a distro amp in the house instead of a passive splitter?


Len, I use a drop amp (distribution amp) and found that when I installed my antenna (a Winegard HD7695P Yagi) I did not need a preamp at the antenna. The drop amp has 8 ports and amplifies the signal by 16 times so that each port sees a 2 times signal increase (16/8). I found this to be good signal strength and I only in the most sever weather do I get noise or drop outs on some of the channels.


----------



## cnsf

I could use some expert advice as I've tried quite a bit on my own to get the NYC VHF-Hi stations. 

I live 40 miles north of NYC and have an Antennas Direct DB8e mounted in my attic going to one TV. I get a lot of UHF channels - they all come in perfectly, some from Poughkeepsie, too.

I am missing the VHF-Hi channels - WABC, WPIX and WNET. 

My one constraint is that my wife won't let me mount an antenna outside, so any solution has to stay in the attic.

I've tried the following - 1) ClearStream5 diplexed to the DB8e, and 2) VHF Retro Kit with a JUICE pre-amp. No luck with either. Not even "slightly better" static.

Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ALP

cnsf said:


> I could use some expert advice as I've tried quite a bit on my own to get the NYC VHF-Hi stations.
> 
> I live 40 miles north of NYC and have an Antennas Direct DB8e mounted in my attic going to one TV. I get a lot of UHF channels - they all come in perfectly, some from Poughkeepsie, too.
> 
> I am missing the VHF-Hi channels - WABC, WPIX and WNET.
> 
> My one constraint is that my wife won't let me mount an antenna outside, so any solution has to stay in the attic.
> 
> I've tried the following - 1) ClearStream5 diplexed to the DB8e, and 2) VHF Retro Kit with a JUICE pre-amp. No luck with either. Not even "slightly better" static.
> 
> Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


cnsf, Please see my post just above yours as to what I have for an antenna. I am 30 miles due north of the ESB and (this could be very important) I am on the south face of a hill (elevation can be important). I hate to be so blunt, but what is your wife's hang up on doing an outdoor antenna? At 40 miles north you are probably going to need an outdoor installation. I did mine myself (I am a retired scientist/engineer and I do have a flat roof so it was not that big of a deal). What is your actual location like (how high, what blocks you, etc)?


----------



## cnsf

ALP said:


> I hate to be so blunt, but what is your wife's hang up on doing an outdoor antenna? At 40 miles north you are probably going to need an outdoor installation.


She doesn't like the look of a big antenna on our house. I don't blame her. We already have Fios, so the OTA isn't a necessity. I'm not going to win this battle, unfortunately.



ALP said:


> I did mine myself (I am a retired scientist/engineer and I do have a flat roof so it was not that big of a deal). What is your actual location like (how high, what blocks you, etc)?


Our roof is actually 3 1/2 stories high, so not easy to access outside and I'm scared sh-tless of heights. We have a lot of trees around and are in a mountainous area. We're about 390 ft. above sea level. I have a pretty good view of the south/southwest sky without trees blocking too much at the top of the roof - our trees are very tall and we border a protected forest area. 

I've seen the VHF-Hi broadcast antennas are around 3.2kW, not very strong.


----------



## Aero 1

post your exact tvfool.com report with the correct height and addresss for better recommendations. the link you post wont show your address.


----------



## ALP

FWIW. I am at 410 above sea level and the antenna is about 40 feet above the ground so it is at 450 feet above sea level. you would be close to that with an outdoor antenna.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WJLP Adds Diginets ESCAPE and GRIT*

WJLP Middletown Township has added two new subchannels, virtual channels 33-3 and 33-4.

Here are the specifics with respect to the programming and technical content:

WJLP-DT3 (RF 3-3/Virtual 33-3) transmits a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Escape* on virtual channel 33-3. Language is English. Program guide information is unavailable and date/time is accurate.

WJLP-DT4 (RF 3-4/Virtual 33-4) transmits a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Grit* on virtual channel 33-4. Language is English. Program guide information is unavailable and date/time is accurate.

PMCM TV, LLC., licensee of WJLP, presently carries _Escape_, _Grit_, and _Justice Network_ as subchannels on its Philadelphia-market television station, KJWP Wilmington, albeit using a different subchannel lineup order.

Meanwhile, _Escape_ and _Grit_ both remain available in the New York City television market via Univision-owned WFUT-DT4 Newark and WXTV-DT4 Paterson respectively.


----------



## NYC10033

cnsf said:


> My one constraint is that my wife won't let me mount an antenna outside, so any solution has to stay in the attic.


Does your wife command an army of flying monkeys?

Did she ever sky-write "SURRENDER DOROTHY"?

Pal, GROW A PAIR.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey NYC10033,


NYC10033 said:


> Does your wife command an army of flying monkeys?
> 
> Did she ever sky-write "SURRENDER DOROTHY"?
> 
> Pal, GROW A PAIR.


In all fairness to cnsf, he said his wife won't let him MOUNT an antenna outside, so any solution has to stay in the attic. I can understand her not wanting that intimate activity performed outside where everyone living nearby can see them, and instead keeping those relations in the privacy of their enclosed attic.


----------



## Aero 1

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> WJLP Middletown Township has added two new subchannels, virtual channels 33-3 and 33-4.
> 
> Here are the specifics with respect to the programming and technical content:
> 
> WJLP-DT3 (RF 3-3/Virtual 33-3) transmits a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Escape* on virtual channel 33-3. Language is English. Program guide information is unavailable and date/time is accurate.
> 
> WJLP-DT4 (RF 3-4/Virtual 33-4) transmits a 480i stream with a 4:3 static aspect-ratio. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Grit* on virtual channel 33-4. Language is English. Program guide information is unavailable and date/time is accurate.
> 
> PMCM TV, LLC., licensee of WJLP, presently carries _Escape_, _Grit_, and _Justice Network_ as subchannels on its Philadelphia-market television station, KJWP Wilmington, albeit using a different subchannel lineup order.
> 
> Meanwhile, _Escape_ and _Grit_ both remain available in the New York City television market via Univision-owned WFUT-DT4 Newark and WXTV-DT4 Paterson respectively.


anyone notice that WJLP is now using the main Chicago, METV feed? no more WJLP branding, the aspect ratio is now correct and the signal looks much better and crisper. 

Also, apparently they have had signal problems which i never saw. There is some sort of interference that they are looking at: https://www.facebook.com/TheTeeVeeGuyd/posts/976914862399489

i wonder if thats the reason they changed to the national feed.


----------



## LenL

cnsf said:


> She doesn't like the look of a big antenna on our house. I don't blame her. We already have Fios, so the OTA isn't a necessity. I'm not going to win this battle, unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> Our roof is actually 3 1/2 stories high, so not easy to access outside and I'm scared sh-tless of heights. We have a lot of trees around and are in a mountainous area. We're about 390 ft. above sea level. I have a pretty good view of the south/southwest sky without trees blocking too much at the top of the roof - our trees are very tall and we border a protected forest area.
> 
> I've seen the VHF-Hi broadcast antennas are around 3.2kW, not very strong.


Some advice from someone who is only 30 miles from the ESB.
1. Attic antenna DID NOT work for me at all. Day and night difference between what I got in the attic and what I got on the outside of the house. 
2. I have a CM4228 off the ground only 10 feet on the side of my house and I get great reception for UHF stations. It used to be above the roof but I no longer have a chimney to mount it on. So you may not have to climb much at all and if you use a CM4228 like design it looks more like a satellite receiver.
3. If you need VHF stations you will need to mount it higher or get a small VHF antenna to mount higher. VHF reception requires more antenna height.


----------



## LenL

CNSF,

Some further thoughts.

You CAN'T get VHF reception at your location with an antenna in the attic. That is a given. I don't care what kind of antenna you buy and put in your attic. You will also get much better UHF reception outside. You may be OK with UHF you are getting now but you would probably get better reception outdoors and pull in more stations.


----------



## drew64

I live in NJ and have direct tv. Used to get ME tv but it moved to 33.1. I have a Mohu antenna inside and get most OTA channels but can't get ME tv. Would a different antenna work. I shouldn't be outside the range. Pretty close to NYC. Any ideas. One of my favorite channels


----------



## dstoffa

drew64 said:


> I live in NJ and have direct tv. Used to get ME tv but it moved to 33.1. I have a Mohu antenna inside and get most OTA channels but can't get ME tv. Would a different antenna work. I shouldn't be outside the range. Pretty close to NYC. Any ideas. One of my favorite channels


MeTV (WJLP) did not change frequencies, just virtual channels. If you received it when it was labeled as Channel 3.1, or 3.10, you should still be receiving it, because it is still a VHF station, even though its virtual channel is 33.1.


----------



## drew64

dstoffa said:


> MeTV (WJLP) did not change frequencies, just virtual channels. If you received it when it was labeled as Channel 3.1, or 3.10, you should still be receiving it, because it is still a VHF station, even though its virtual channel is 33.1.


I received it as channel 43 on direct tv. This is now some western channel and not Me Tv. That's why I figured can pull it in OTA with an antenna. I get cozi tv and decades and a few other OTA channels but not ME tv. I could try and re adjust the antenna again.


----------



## dstoffa

drew64 said:


> I received it as channel 43 on direct tv. This is now some western channel and not Me Tv. That's why I figured can pull it in OTA with an antenna. I get cozi tv and decades and a few other OTA channels but not ME tv. I could try and re adjust the antenna again.


If you were receiving it on Channel 43 via DirecTV, then you were probably watching it on WZME-TV, Channel 43 out of Connecticut. I want to say they are now Heroes and Icons...

WJLP broadcasts on RF Channel 3. You will need a VHF antenna to pick it up (Rabbit Ears might work for you). You Mohu antenna is not designed to pick up Lo-VHF signals.

I am surprised that DirecTV is not being carried in the NYC DMA as a Local Channel. Oh well...

Try rabbit ears, and extend them out, not the mohu...


----------



## drew64

dstoffa said:


> If you were receiving it on Channel 43 via DirecTV, then you were probably watching it on WZME-TV, Channel 43 out of Connecticut. I want to say they are now Heroes and Icons...
> 
> WJLP broadcasts on RF Channel 3. You will need a VHF antenna to pick it up (Rabbit Ears might work for you). You Mohu antenna is not designed to pick up Lo-VHF signals.
> 
> I am surprised that DirecTV is not being carried in the NYC DMA as a Local Channel. Oh well...
> 
> Try rabbit ears, and extend them out, not the mohu...


Will give it a try. I have a couple laying around. Thought I tried them before but will give it a shot again any brand will work or are some better than others. Do I need an amplified one.


----------



## uhfyagi

you mean metv not being carried by directv not the way you scripted. btw comet channel is carried by wzme as a sub is decent, I was expecting more. pretty soon will find these being streamed on kodi. Seems like chinese channel cctv on 32-1 has probs carrying retro or rev channel as a sub.


----------



## roseha

drew64 said:


> I live in NJ and have direct tv. Used to get ME tv but it moved to 33.1. I have a Mohu antenna inside and get most OTA channels but can't get ME tv. Would a different antenna work. I shouldn't be outside the range. Pretty close to NYC. Any ideas. One of my favorite channels


I brought this up awhile ago, but it's still working: I got the VHF Retrofit Kit, https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/VHF-Antenna-Kit.html from Antennas Direct and attached it through the UHF antenna I have per their instructions (see my post a couple of pages back). For $20 it's made a huge difference in my VHF reception. I live in Manhattan but had a terrible time getting in METV, and when I did I couldn't get all the other VHF channels. Now it's improved a lot. Worth a try for the low cost. I just put it inside my window.


----------



## drew64

roseha said:


> I brought this up awhile ago, but it's still working: I got the VHF Retrofit Kit, https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/VHF-Antenna-Kit.html from Antennas Direct and attached it through the UHF antenna I have per their instructions (see my post a couple of pages back). For $20 it's made a huge difference in my VHF reception. I live in Manhattan but had a terrible time getting in METV, and when I did I couldn't get all the other VHF channels. Now it's improved a lot. Worth a try for the low cost. I just put it inside my window.


Where did you attach this to. I have tried hooking up plain rabbit ears to my tv and still can't get 33-1 which is ME tv.


----------



## dstoffa

drew64 said:


> Where did you attach this to. I have tried hooking up plain rabbit ears to my tv and still can't get 33-1 which is ME tv.


Can you receive channels 7, 11, & 13 with the rabbit ears? If not, then you may need an outdoor antenna, or at least put the rabbit ears in a window facing Manhattan.


----------



## drew64

dstoffa said:


> Can you receive channels 7, 11, & 13 with the rabbit ears? If not, then you may need an outdoor antenna, or at least put the rabbit ears in a window facing Manhattan.


Yes I can get most OTA but can't get ME tv which is 33-1 by me.


----------



## roseha

drew64 said:


> Where did you attach this to. I have tried hooking up plain rabbit ears to my tv and still can't get 33-1 which is ME tv.



I attached it to the ClearStream Micron Indoor HDTV Antenna, which I already had. The Clear Stream is UHF only. The idea is that you connect your antenna cable from the TV to the VHF kit, and a second cable to the UHF antenna on another connection. They provide an extra cable for this, but since the Micron had the cable attached I just used that one, which is working fine.

I think however the VHF kit is designed it does a good job of VHF in general, maybe not perfect all the time, but definitely a big improvement, and certainly with METV. It helps to put it in the window and experiment with different spots. I'm in an apartment with big casement windows and once I found the right spot I attached it to a couple of plastic stick on hooks from Amazon. Good luck.


----------



## uhfyagi

Wow not much activity on this forum, I'll ask anyway whats happening with the rev channel and retro tv, Giacomo any news why wnyx took out these subs.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey uhfyagi,


uhfyagi said:


> Wow not much activity on this forum, I'll ask anyway whats happening with the rev channel and retro tv, Giacomo any news why wnyx took out these subs.


I think the lack of activity on this forum correlates to the fact that on both the legislative and technical fronts of broadcast television there is very little recent news that has specifically affected the New York City metro area.

Regarding the Island Broadcasting low-power TV stations, of which WNYX-LD is one, I have yet to receive anything off of any of them except for WNYZ-LP, VHF Channel 6, which remains in Analog and programs monochrome silent movies filmed in the 1920s with aural programming that is apparently intended for the FM radio audience listening on 87.75FM.

While it is pure conjecture on my part, I highly suspect the reason that the Luken Communications diginets (Rev'n and Retro TV) are no longer being carried over WNYX-LD is due to the same predictable quality of signal that Luken has provided to their TV affiliates for years, and the quality of that signal is LOUSY. There could also be financial reasons involved. Given the fact that the potential audience for these digital LPTVs is quite small, whatever remunerations Island is charging may be considered prohibitive by a company like Luken, especially given their financial situation exacerbated by the very real fact that they have two very strong competing diginets (Antenna TV and Me-TV) as well as other diginets which carry classic TV programming in other forms such as ethnic, game shows, gender-centric, and movies. Not only has all this competition proved superior to Retro TV, but ironically Retro TV was the first diginet to program this fare and has, so far, proven to be the only failure amongst all the diginets programming this content.

Luken, in my view, should have spent more finances and time improving the quality of its programming and signal instead of creating new diginets which will prove even less successful than Retro TV has so far and will be much harder to realize any profit with.


----------



## uhfyagi

Giacomo I think you're speculative sense is right on. Luken has a track record no broadcaster wants to touch. with that said 
nyx has 3 rf frequencies that i know of ch 26 32 and forementioned ch 6 they all show the same programming on each channel I think nyx is good candidate for the bandwidth crunch  txs for replying giocomo, adios amigo


----------



## Wappingers.dx

A couple of interesting articles on the antennas being built for One World Trade Center 

http://www.myrecordjournal.com/home...igns-antennas-for-one-world-trade-center.html

http://www.rfsworld.com/rfs-antenna...cceptance-testing,62,1,pressreleases,809.html


----------



## specu

I believe I found the right place for my question:

Last week we've lost 50.1 NJTV here in Queens, it was replaced by Spanish language station. It was a pretty good channel for kids progams. Their website still lists 50.1 as their channel. Hopefully they've just moved somewhere else rather than being gone for me. Anybody has any info?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hi specu,


specu said:


> I believe I found the right place for my question:
> 
> Last week we've lost 50.1 NJTV here in Queens, it was replaced by Spanish language station. It was a pretty good channel for kids progams. Their website still lists 50.1 as their channel. Hopefully they've just moved somewhere else rather than being gone for me. Anybody has any info?


I think I know what happened, but a few more details from you will confirm if my suspicion is indeed correct.

What is the PSIP channel name of the Spanish channel and, looking closely, is the channel number 50-1? By any chance, is it called "BuenaTV"? Also, in addition to the main channel, how many subchannels are carried on this channel?

These details are necessary in order to absolutely determine what happened.


----------



## LenL

specu said:


> I believe I found the right place for my question:
> 
> Last week we've lost 50.1 NJTV here in Queens, it was replaced by Spanish language station. It was a pretty good channel for kids progams. Their website still lists 50.1 as their channel. Hopefully they've just moved somewhere else rather than being gone for me. Anybody has any info?



You did not lose it. It is still broadcasting. Its real channel ID is 51. Perhaps if you do a rescan of channels on your device (TV?) you will get it back.


----------



## Aero 1

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hi specu,
> 
> I think I know what happened, but a few more details from you will confirm if my suspicion is indeed correct.
> 
> What is the PSIP channel name of the Spanish channel and, looking closely, is the channel number 50-1? By any chance, is it called "BuenaTV"? Also, in addition to the main channel, how many subchannels are carried on this channel?
> 
> These details are necessary in order to absolutely determine what happened.


Or you can just tell us so the inevitable 4 day wait for his and your replies can be minimized.


----------



## specu

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hi specu,
> 
> I think I know what happened, but a few more details from you will confirm if my suspicion is indeed correct.
> 
> What is the PSIP channel name of the Spanish channel and, looking closely, is the channel number 50-1? By any chance, is it called "BuenaTV"? Also, in addition to the main channel, how many subchannels are carried on this channel?
> 
> These details are necessary in order to absolutely determine what happened.


Your suspicion is correct whatever it is. buenatv is what shows on 50.1 and buenatv is normally on 51.1. On a different tv i still have njtv on 50.1
on the "bad" tv on channel 50 i have 50.1 buenatv, 50.2 is that striped signal, 50.3 evanegelical stuff, 50.4 stripes, 50.5 no signal.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Aero 1 said:


> Or you can just tell us so the inevitable 4 day wait for his and your replies can be minimized.


That is my plan. I am withholding this information so as I can keep YOU in suspense


----------



## uhfyagi

*wtc*



Wappingers.dx said:


> A couple of interesting articles on the antennas being built for One World Trade Center
> 
> http://www.myrecordjournal.com/home...igns-antennas-for-one-world-trade-center.html
> 
> http://www.rfsworld.com/rfs-antenna...cceptance-testing,62,1,pressreleases,809.html


intersting whats going to happen with the wtc I prefer that the networks don't move there. I probably gonna lose more channels leave as it is.


----------



## specu

LenL said:


> You did not lose it. It is still broadcasting. Its real channel ID is 51. Perhaps if you do a rescan of channels on your device (TV?) you will get it back.


I've rescaned and it's back. so I'm good.


----------



## specu

*WLIW in Queens?*

Is there any way to get reception of PBS WLIW 21.1 in Queens? I live about an hour walk west from citifield, my indoor amplified antenna RCA 1217GM is above all the neighboring windows, but directed towards midtown manhattan right now. Even if I direct it towards citifield I dont get channel 21. Is there anything I can do to receive it?


----------



## LenL

specu said:


> Is there any way to get reception of PBS WLIW 21.1 in Queens? I live about an hour walk west from citifield, my indoor amplified antenna RCA 1217GM is above all the neighboring windows, but directed towards midtown manhattan right now. Even if I direct it towards citifield I dont get channel 21. Is there anything I can do to receive it?


The broadcast towers for WLIW are near Melville LI. I believe if you are aiming for citifield you are aiming in the wrong direction as the towers are way east of citifield.

Also you may need an out door antenna as it may be 20 miles or more from your location.


----------



## KEVINL71

Wikipedia shows the WLIW-TV tower being with their studio in Plainview, NY, adjacent to a service road, via Exit 48 from I-495 (Long Island Expressway). This was me passing by it in September of 2013.


----------



## uhfyagi

I can receive wliw ch21 beit a reflected signal off a building facing opposite direction, also their haat or height above average terrain is 290 feet not as high as most broadcast towers. good luck...


----------



## specu

LenL said:


> The broadcast towers for WLIW are near Melville LI. I believe if you are aiming for citifield you are aiming in the wrong direction as the towers are way east of citifield.
> 
> Also you may need an out door antenna as it may be 20 miles or more from your location.


citifield is east of me (I'm west of citifield), and my antenna is point east as well.


----------



## specu

uhfyagi said:


> I can receive wliw ch21 beit a reflected signal off a building facing opposite direction, also their haat or height above average terrain is 290 feet not as high as most broadcast towers. good luck...


how tall is the building the signal reflects off of?


----------



## uhfyagi

specu said:


> how tall is the building the signal reflects off of?


6 stories is about 50ft directly in front of my antenna I use the reflected signal to grab wzme & wedw from bridgeport,ct to boot.


----------



## Kascnef82

Channel 2 WCBS TV changed their logo and their website this past week. I miss the old 2. They have adopted the 16:9 format which doesn't translate well when viewed via standard def on Optimum. ABC recently letterboxed their SD feed a few weeks ago. I wish WPIX, My9, WNYW local news, and NBC local did the same.


----------



## uhfyagi

send an email to each tv station with you're ideas, someone will get back to you


----------



## unsmiley

I just upgraded to new LED television from my trusty old tube tv. Using the same rabbit ears antenna positioned in approximately the same location, I get fewer stations with the new television . 

Stations_ I can_ pull in with new television: 2.1-2, 4.1-2, 5.1-3, 7.1-3, 9.1-4, 11.1-3, 13.1-3, 41.1-4, 47.1-2, 60.1, 68.1-4. I am missing (and desire) the following stations that I formerly received: 25.1 (WNYE), 31 (Ion), 33.1(WJLP), 40.3 (Bounce - I know I get it on another channel), and the CCTV channels.

Any reason for this? Any possible solutions? Is it the antenna? The television? Or both? Note that in another room I have another "modern" LCD tv that gets everything I want with a different set of rabbit ears.


----------



## LenL

Unsmiley,

Was your tube tele a capable of processing digital signals or did you use a converter box with it?


----------



## dstoffa

unsmiley said:


> I just upgraded to new LED television from my trusty old tube tv. Using the same rabbit ears antenna positioned in approximately the same location, I get fewer stations with the new television .
> 
> Any reason for this? Any possible solutions? Is it the antenna? The television? Or both? Note that in another room I have another "modern" LCD tv that gets everything I want with a different set of rabbit ears.





LenL said:


> Unsmiley,
> 
> Was your tube tele a capable of processing digital signals or did you use a converter box with it?


I was ready to write that it must be tuner sensitivity.

I recommend that you hook up the rabbit eats and STB that was used with the CRT set, and connect the composite video output of the STB to your new TV to see if the missing channels are received. If yes, then the answer is the sensitivity of the ATSC tuner in your new TV. (Well, that would be the most likely problem.)

Cheers!
-Doug


----------



## unsmiley

LenL said:


> Unsmiley,
> 
> Was your tube tele a capable of processing digital signals or did you use a converter box with it?


The old analog television required the use of a digital converter box. I hooked the rabbit ears to that.


----------



## unsmiley

dstoffa said:


> I was ready to write that it must be tuner sensitivity.
> 
> I recommend that you hook up the rabbit eats and STB that was used with the CRT set, and connect the composite video output of the STB to your new TV to see if the missing channels are received. If yes, then the answer is the sensitivity of the ATSC tuner in your new TV. (Well, that would be the most likely problem.)
> 
> Cheers!
> -Doug


I was thinking of doing just that experiment. I will report back the results.


----------



## LenL

Unsmiley,

What brand LED TV are you using?


----------



## unsmiley

Well I hooked up the rabbit ears, digital converter box, and LED and of course it got all the stations that I previously set on the converter box for my old tube TV. In retrospect, I don't think that was a useful experiment. 

Would an amplified antenna help pull in WJLP and ION in my situation (assuming its the tuner that is not very sensitive on the new TV)?



LenL said:


> Unsmiley,
> 
> What brand LED TV are you using?


RCA.


----------



## unsmiley

More follow up with experimenting with my new RCA LED TV:

I switched antennas from cheap rabbit ears to an unamplified 1byONE leaf type antenna, and did a scan, and came up with several more channels  (including two 31-ION, and 25-NYE) but still no 33-1 WJLP . Unfortunately, that is the one I really want. 

Questions: Would an amplified antenna help in my situation (where the culprit is probably an insensitive tuner in the new tv) along with the fact that I can pull in WJLP (albeit sometimes with a little difficulty) on my other televisions in my apartment? Are there any tricks to trying to pull in WJLP with a leaf antenna? I'd hate to have to return this large television but I only have a few more days to decide. Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## dstoffa

unsmiley said:


> Are there any tricks to trying to pull in WJLP with a leaf antenna? I'd hate to have to return this large television but I only have a few more days to decide. Thanks for any suggestions.


WJLP broadcasts on Channel 3, a low frequency VHF channel. A leaf antenna is designed to receive UHF and might get some high frequency VHF stations.

The elements of your antenna (each ear) should be somewhere around 4 feet long to be tuned to get Channel 3.

The wavelength is too long and won't evenly go through anything but a bay window which faces the transmitter. 

If ears worked in the past, you might be able to use those ears coupled with an amp. The Winegard LNA-100 might work for you...

http://www.winegard.com/amplifiers/amplifiers-tech-specs
http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-LNA-100-Boost-Antenna-Amplifier/dp/B00BN5Z2UY


----------



## nyctveng

Has anyone had any issues with Ch32 WXNY over the past few days? I don't watch it but it seems looks to have no signal when I flip by. Thanks.


----------



## unsmiley

dstoffa said:


> WJLP broadcasts on Channel 3, a low frequency VHF channel. A leaf antenna is designed to receive UHF and might get some high frequency VHF stations.
> 
> The elements of your antenna (each ear) should be somewhere around 4 feet long to be tuned to get Channel 3.
> 
> The wavelength is too long and won't evenly go through anything but a bay window which faces the transmitter.
> 
> If ears worked in the past, you might be able to use those ears coupled with an amp. The Winegard LNA-100 might work for you...
> 
> http://www.winegard.com/amplifiers/amplifiers-tech-specs
> http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-LNA-100-Boost-Antenna-Amplifier/dp/B00BN5Z2UY


Thanks for the suggestions. I may try that amplifier if I have a similar problem when I try another modern tv. (I wish I knew which brands/models tend to have more sensitive tuners so picking up WJLP would be less of an issue.) I ended up returning the RCA television in question and went back to my Sony WEGA Trinitron and digital converter.


----------



## MeatChicken

... surprised no one has commented on the 33.10 subchannel added recently ..


----------



## dvdchance

MeatChicken said:


> ... surprised no one has commented on the 33.10 subchannel added recently ..


What is it??


----------



## MeatChicken

Rotating Weather info, graphics, and various data from offshore buoys ect ... ....


----------



## cheerful

Hi,

I have a leaf antenna that I have been using for several years now. It works well for UHF channels but it also consistently picks up ABC 7 on VHF.

Last Thursday, I was watching the NBA final just fine.

Sunday, when I turned on the TV, there is no signal on ABC 7.

I have not changed a single thing in between, not even touching the antenna.

Is anyone aware of the any change in these days on the broadcast signal?

Thanks


----------



## unsmiley

I watched the NBA finals on Channel 7 on both Thursday and Sunday with an over the air antenna (rabbit ears) with no glitches whatsoever. Did you try moving the antenna to see if repositioning it would help you pick up the signal?


----------



## 2VW

A few items may help those trying to maintain OTA viewing in iffy situations.

Preamps work much better when they are used to overcome thermal noise from coaxial cable. 

That means UHF and located near the antenna. A good mast mounted preamp can work wonders properly used. Same amp right in back of the TV receiver can land up being next to useless. VHF may benefit from a mast mounted preamp but usually not as much as UHF.

Preamps can do more harm than good in many situations. They can get overloaded and generate extra signals when used in areas with very high signal levels. Not just television signals. FM radio, pagers, amateur radio CB and other things can make preamps hurt. The better amps have filters but they only do so much. Some preamps are hopeless from the start. Radio Shack used to sell one in the 70s that would oscillate unless the preamp voltage was reduced!

One cannot simply make a modern television more sensitive by using a preamp right at the receiver. That amp will bring up noise along with the desired signals, leaving the set to sort things out. Many newer televisions have better receivers due to advanced software that is able to decode 8VSB. They aren't more sensitive than the older models from what I've seen. They do work a LOT better though. I've never seen any list of who uses what software and hardware and cannot recommend one over the other. The best converter box for reception in fringe and DX situations is the Homeworx unit. They work great out in the sticks. They also blow up after two weeks.

When working with OTA DTV being able to reject unwanted signals and noise is as important as being able to point toward the desired signal source. Hi VHF demonstrates this well. Amplitude interference that might make plain old static on an AM radio can make a DTV signal impossible to decode even if it is strong. A vacuum cleaner using brushes in the motor is one good example. Another is the WaterPik. Those beasties can make little sparks that turn into RF and carry through house wiring. Goodbye channel 11 : (

UHF antenna can receive VHF and even low VHF even though they were not designed to do that. Signal levels will be low but flamethrowers like WABC can be watched using a UHF antenna in a lot of cases. The big problem with this is the UHF antenna has little or no directivity at VHF and will receive noise along with the desired signal. 

More noise sources are modern washing machines, power lines, dishwashers, air conditioners, wall warts (the really lightweight ones are switching supplies and are always suspect) and computer equipment. Component PC type computers built from parts are especially bad because manufacturers typically delete noise filters to save money. Noises from all this consumer junk travel much further at VHF than UHF and are one reason UHF is superior for OTA DTV using the current transmission standard. Low VHF is a disaster in areas where consumer electronics make noise.

When you find a television channel missing it does not usually make sense to assume the broadcaster is having problems. First see if anyone else has the same issue. If so it could be at the transmitter end. 

See if anything has changed at your end. When using rabbit ears and indoor antenna all it takes is a new extension cord plugged in the next room to make a difference in some cases. That's a stretch but is an example. If you live in the city and have new neighbors expect problems. 

There will always be someone who has tried xyz which disagrees with the above, especially on the internet : ) Usually there's more to it than meets the eye. People stick preamps in front of inside small antennas all the time and sometimes it helps. One of 1000 possible explanations is the extra coax cable may be situated where it helps reject noise. 

Happy viewing!


----------



## cheerful

unsmiley said:


> I watched the NBA finals on Channel 7 on Thursday with an over the air antenna (rabbit ears) with no glitches whatsoever. Did you try moving the antenna to see if repositioning it would help you pick up the signal?


It worked for me on Thursday as well (ABC7). However, the signal was gone on Sunday. It was not there either last night.


----------



## 2VW

cheerful said:


> It worked for me on Thursday as well (ABC7). However, the signal was gone on Sunday. It was not there either last night.


This time of year TV signals are influenced by tropospheric ducting which is brought about be certain weather patterns. 

Television signals can vary in strength quite a bit even though nothing at the transmitter is changing. 

Not saying that's what is happening to ABC at your place. Just one more possibility.


----------



## cheerful

ABC7 came back briefly tonight and then disappeared again.


----------



## Aero 1

cheerful said:


> ABC7 came back briefly tonight and then disappeared again.


you have a crap antenna. a crap antenna thats crappier on the vhf band. whether it was god, xenu, allah, the flying spaghetti monster, or any other supreme being making your vhf reception good with that antenna is not helping you anymore. 

something popped up causing interference. tropo, new building, new cell tower, whatever it might be, you can mitigate it by getting an antenna thats made for vhf. or just wait it out to see if it fixes itself. 

fyi, abc 7 has been holding steady for me at 98% strength for a very long time, no hiccups.


----------



## speedlaw

*Channel 2 only fluctuates ?*

System-Fringe antenna on roof, pointed at NYC. Feeds four TV sets, no amp. It is a full spectrum antenna, from VHF lo to UHF.....

I get all NYC stations with solid lock and high numbers...VHF is over 95%, UHF over 80%. No preamps, don't need them. When conditions are good, I can even lock RF2, channel 41 !...Channel 33, RF3, is 95%

Channel 2, RF 33, fluctuates between 30% and 80%, losing and gaining lock. None of the other channels fluctuate significantly. The channel 2 fluctuation is on all tuners, and again on all tuners, every other channel is strong.

I'm north of the Tappan Zee Bridge, with a line of sight down the river. Anyone else seeing this ? Mama can't watch CBS This Morning ! 

What would be causing an issue on this one frequency only ?


----------



## KEVINL71

You could be getting interference from Hartford/New Haven. WFSB-TV (CBS) channel 3 of Hartford uses channel 33 for their digital. Their transmitter is off of Deercliff Road on Avon Mountain. That's roughly the West Hartford/Avon town line.


----------



## 2VW

speedlaw said:


> Mama can't watch CBS This Morning !
> 
> What would be causing an issue on this one frequency only ?


Is it possible one of the receivers fed by the splitter is disconnected from the antenna cable?

Unterminated splitter ports can act like a direct short on specific frequencies.

Also as always with eff connectors make sure everything is tight.


----------



## speedlaw

2VW said:


> Is it possible one of the receivers fed by the splitter is disconnected from the antenna cable?
> 
> Unterminated splitter ports can act like a direct short on specific frequencies.
> 
> Also as always with eff connectors make sure everything is tight.


I'll run around and check everything. I've no knowingly open ports, as a ham op I'm up on the bizarre ways RF can resonate and the importance of impedence even on RX....I'll give everything an extra twist.

I'm located on the side of a hill, behind any possible reflections from CT. On VHF ham radio, I have line of sight to NYC and down the Hudson and Jersey shore, but am hard pressed to work any VHF north or west of me. I checked a map and I'm several mountain ranges away even given the height of the transmitter in CT.... still, RF can be funky.

I'll never forget one night in the analog era, when I got a clear channel on every single 2-13 channel. Indeed, many nights channel 3 from Philly was clearer than 2 from NYC.....

Off to twist F connectors and check everything.


----------



## jpru34

speedlaw said:


> I'll run around and check everything. I've no knowingly open ports, as a ham op I'm up on the bizarre ways RF can resonate and the importance of impedence even on RX....I'll give everything an extra twist.
> 
> I'm located on the side of a hill, behind any possible reflections from CT. On VHF ham radio, I have line of sight to NYC and down the Hudson and Jersey shore, but am hard pressed to work any VHF north or west of me. I checked a map and I'm several mountain ranges away even given the height of the transmitter in CT.... still, RF can be funky.
> 
> I'll never forget one night in the analog era, when I got a clear channel on every single 2-13 channel. Indeed, many nights channel 3 from Philly was clearer than 2 from NYC.....
> 
> Off to twist F connectors and check everything.


Been having same problem with Channel 2 fluctuating wildly lately. All other stations are a perfect lock with near 100% signal strength.


----------



## speedlaw

*channel two fluctuation*



jpru34 said:


> Been having same problem with Channel 2 fluctuating wildly lately. All other stations are a perfect lock with near 100% signal strength.


Yes. The odd thing is it will peak at 80 or so, stay strong and then drop to zero and pixellate. I am thinking that maybe there is some out of band interference ending up in the 590 mhz channel that comes and goes, like a paging tower or some sort of Police/fire dispatch. I don't get waver...it is solid lock and then knocked back to zero, lose lock....get lock back. It is like a switch, not a gradual fade. Not the profile of a just out of range station....

Hey, channel 2 ? Want to send an ENG truck up the Hudson Valley ? I'm sure a professional spectrum analyzer would answer this one.

My other two working theories are that the CBS transmit antenna is on the exact wrong side of the ESB, or that airplanes on the Hudson River Corridor are setting up odd reflections. 

Meanwhile, all the other stations come in from 90 to 80 percent, with stable signals no matter the number on the menu.....

I went around the system, and found one unterminated split...fixed it....no difference.


----------



## nyctveng

*no*



speedlaw said:


> My other two working theories are that the CBS transmit antenna is on the exact wrong side of the ESB,


absolutely NOT!!!!


----------



## 2VW

speedlaw said:


> My other two working theories are that the CBS transmit antenna is on the exact wrong side of the ESB, or that airplanes on the Hudson River Corridor are setting up odd reflections.
> 
> 
> 
> I went around the system, and found one unterminated split...fixed it....no difference.


The Empire CBS antenna is also currently used by WWOR and WNBC. This is a legacy of 9/11. There are fill antenna to take care of the wrong side problem. Of course certain directions will have problems with a system of that type. 

Your description does fit airplane reflections. With line of sight you might try the television antenna at vertical polarization. Airplane reflections work much better at horizontal pol. Most TV antennas will not play well installed for vertical pol as the mast throws everything off. 

If you have ham equipment around and a strong source of RF nearby like a CB operator with a garbage amplifier your transceiver's front end can partially rectify and transmit harmonics of very strong signals. The diode switching in some VHF transceivers does this quite well. The radio does not even have to be in use! Unhooking the antenna when the radio is not being operated fixes the problem. 

Yes, a spectrum analyzer can tell plenty. Maybe one of those cheap RTL SDR jobs can work for you. 

Hey you're a ham so experiments are normal : )

Best of luck.


----------



## speedlaw

2VW said:


> The Empire CBS antenna is also currently used by WWOR and WNBC. This is a legacy of 9/11. There are fill antenna to take care of the wrong side problem. Of course certain directions will have problems with a system of that type.
> 
> Your description does fit airplane reflections. With line of sight you might try the television antenna at vertical polarization. Airplane reflections work much better at horizontal pol. Most TV antennas will not play well installed for vertical pol as the mast throws everything off.
> 
> If you have ham equipment around and a strong source of RF nearby like a CB operator with a garbage amplifier your transceiver's front end can partially rectify and transmit harmonics of very strong signals. The diode switching in some VHF transceivers does this quite well. The radio does not even have to be in use! Unhooking the antenna when the radio is not being operated fixes the problem.
> 
> Yes, a spectrum analyzer can tell plenty. Maybe one of those cheap RTL SDR jobs can work for you.
> 
> Hey you're a ham so experiments are normal : )
> 
> Best of luck.


Ah, yes-experiments. I love playing with radio....I've a scanner hooked up as well, so I'm pretty familiar with my local radio-scape.

My first OTA experience was when I put up an old antenna I was given, just for giggles, and was floored to see how good the OTA signal was compared to the CATV source. This was back in the NTSC days and our local cable co got full amortization out of the old school distribution system-the signals were not very clean. You young'uns don't get that the 480i we saw isn't the digital clean 480 lines you might see somewhere...the DVD was a revelation because it was the first perfect picture most of us ever saw on an NTSC set. To be fair, picture quality wasn't "a thing" back then. NTSC's robustness was used against it...so there were a lot of poor practices...

I got a US Digital Box from Wal Mart, back when USDigital was a business concept, and used that for many years-the engineers wrote and distributed an OTA unlock key when USD went bankrupt (thanks guys !!)....followed by Sony HDD 250 DVR..So I've had digital OTA from the beginning, and I've seen a lot of change. Does anyone recall how good a 1080 i picture looked with NO SUBCHANNELS ? Pixel for pixel, folks.

I don't know if I could flip the antenna to vertical easily, but so far the interference appears to have gone away....and CBS is back to 80%.... 

My local transmitters are police and fire, and a cell tower a 1/2 mile away. I'm many miles from the nearest paging towers...The only CB is on channel 8, which is a local taxi company dispatch, it is otherwise dead in my location and they aren't amplified. No other hams around that I am aware of, and no changes in my local radio world.

Always fun. I have a $40 Homeworx 180 box, with a tuner and rudimentary PVR, and I'm amazed how well that $40 tuner works....


----------



## 2VW

speedlaw said:


> Always fun. I have a $40 Homeworx 180 box, with a tuner and rudimentary PVR, and I'm amazed how well that $40 tuner works....


Any secrets for keeping your Homeworx box alive?

They work very well but I've been through two of them in under a year. Online reviews show same problem with lots of people. They just plain quit. Mine was powered by a UPS.


----------



## speedlaw

No idea. I've had this for about four months, so far OK. I used a USB stick, and then a 1TB Hitachi drive. The box is sensitive to the speed of the USB stick-I had one that gave the box stutters on playback...which I why I ended up using a spinning drive. No UPS here.

I have no complaints for what is a VCR level experience for $100...It isn't my TiVo but by comparison it is almost "free".

The only bug I've noticed is that if it is on prior to record, and then records, and then stops, it won't go to the PVR screen without an on/off cycle. Nothing is lost, and it always clears the bug.

The Homeworx, etc are built for about $15 each. You can buy them from the OE manufacturers on Chinese websites in 1000 quantities, "will brand for you". I consider this disposable in a way my Tivo isn't.


----------



## 2VW

speedlaw said:


> The Homeworx, etc are built for about $15 each. You can buy them from the OE manufacturers on Chinese websites in 1000 quantities, "will brand for you". I consider this disposable in a way my Tivo isn't.


Muntz might be a good name to market these under.


----------



## d3193

*Movies!*

Has anyone noticed that 5.2 (Movies!) is now broadcasting in 480i widescreen? 

I'm wondering how many bits/bytes are saved by broadcasters who use 480i 4x3 for their subchannels. Very few people now watch on 4x3 screens.


----------



## reddice

Is WABC, WPIX, WNET and WNJU broadcasting off 1WTC? I checked TVFool and Antennaweb and it says it is. I notice it says it is broadcasting 2.4 miles.


----------



## LenL

No. And nothing scheduled.


----------



## reddice

Thanks. Never trusted those sites anyway it shows I can get WPXN but I cant get it no matter what antenna indoor or outdoor I use and WNYJ is weaker but I can get that station no problems with any cheap indoor antenna. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## LenL

TV Fool and Antenna web are helpful and good to have but not perfect for many of us. They do have useful info on the broadcast towers relative to your location too.


----------



## reddice

LenL said:


> TV Fool and Antenna web are helpful and good to have but not perfect for many of us. They do have useful info on the broadcast towers relative to your location too.


Then why do they say 7, 11 and 13 are on 1WTC when they are not? That is a major flaw if you use that wrong information to point your antenna.

http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/dtvmaps/
This site is more accurate except for channel 31 which I can't receive it is right with all the other channels I can receive. Also shows 7, 9 and 11 on the ESB not 1WTC.


----------



## LenL

I agree they have a major error. I don't know what they are doing. I like this site:

http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/dtvmaps/

See if this helps you.


----------



## LenL

George Molnar said:


> Just a reminder that this site does not show Low Power stations, like WBND and WCWW in South Bend. It's a very good site, but is limited for areas where networks are carried on LP stations, like South Bend or elsewhere.


What is a South Bend guy doing in the NY Metro Area AVS forum? 

Anyway I forgot about Rabbit Ears the best site of them all for kinds of TV and AVS info:

http://www.rabbitears.info/statistics.php?request=station_type&type=LD


----------



## reddice

LenL said:


> I agree they have a major error. I don't know what they are doing. I like this site:
> 
> http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/dtvmaps/
> 
> See if this helps you.


That is the site I used. It is correct except for channel 31 which I can never get no matter what antenna outdoor, indoor or signal booster does not matter.
Also when I pointed my outdoor antenna back years ago I did not rely on TVFool or Antennaweb as they have always been so wrong. Just pointed the antenna while someone was watching the signal strength using RF-7 on my TV signal strength to get the best signal.


----------



## speedlaw

*RF 33 interference continued*



KEVINL71 said:


> You could be getting interference from Hartford/New Haven. WFSB-TV (CBS) channel 3 of Hartford uses channel 33 for their digital. Their transmitter is off of Deercliff Road on Avon Mountain. That's roughly the West Hartford/Avon town line.


I replaced every splitter with a new one. I checked every connection. I removed a stereo tuner I don't really use....

Still, the mystery of why every station is over 80 %, perfect lock, but for channel 2.1, RF 33, which also shows up at 80 percent...but loses lock and pixellates frequently...just enough to be annoying....

It has become more clear that you are correct...I'm getting interference somehow from another station. The proof came up when playing with, ironically, the cheapest of my tuners.

I have two Tivo tuners. True to internet lore, the best one is the TiVo HD, the older one. This keeps RF 33, NY CBS 2.1 most of the time. My Tivo Premier Box tunes it as well, but not as much....the older box is better.

My first generation Sony tuner in a Rear Projection set pixellates more than the others.

My Samsung tuner, at the weakest end of the OTA antenna setup won't even find it on a scan, due to the multi signal problem.

The Homeworx box, bless it's $40 heart, shows that when the image on RF 33 pixellates, unlike the other tuners where you get blocks and freeze, shows the other picture. You never actually get the whole picture....it isn't quite like the FM radio capture effect, but when 2.1 blox out, it is clear there's another picture fighting to get out from below...it never does enough for an actual station ID, but I've seen clearly greenery and skies..

At least it sorta proves the problem is another signal.

My response is to order a CM 4228, as the front/back ratio is much better than the f/b ratio for the RS VU 100 that is on the roof now. I'm willing to lose RF 3 (virtual 33) if it gets me (mama) CBS steady-I get very strong upper VHF, so I'm pretty sure the 4228 will work. 

I'll post again when the antenna gets to the roof.....


----------



## LenL

CM4228 does a great job with UHF but not so good with VHF. You probably already know this. I use a separate VHF only antenna with my 4228.


----------



## speedlaw

The Radio Shack VU 120 came down. The CM 4228HD went up. After 15 or so years, the RS was beat up looking, but still good electrically. The CM 4228 is tiny by comparison to the big boom and VHF-LO receive elements.

Same mounting location-the antenna moved up four feet and laterally about three-the UHF Yagi was at the end of a long boom.

Interesting results. Off the bat, I lost channel 33-1, RF 3. This was expected, as the CM isn't a VHF Lo antenna. Zero Signal.

Here are the results, from the Tivo Premiere, using percentages. The CM 4228 met or beat the Radio Shack antenna everywhere. All Channels Lock on all TV sets, ranging from a TiVo HD, (best tuner in the house) to a Sony RPTV (Jan 2005 production, first gen HTDV)

Virtual ch...RF ch....%CM4228.....%RS antenna

I tried to clean up this table, but the word editor won't let me.

2 33 93 45 no lock 
4 28 87 87 
5 44 85 70/91 
7 7 91 89/92 
9 38 72 67 
11 11 72 66/79 
13 13 70 63 
25 24 91 85 
41 40 60 71 
68 30 92 80 

fraction means signal wavers


This time of year is historically worst case for RF at my location...all the trees are at maximum, I'm in a hilly area, and the air is hot and humid.

I consider the mission accomplished-all NYC OTA is coming down the wire. Losing 33.1 to gain 2.1 worth it and not worth another antenna. The only channel I lost anything on is 41, it still locks, and I don't use it. 

Still amazed that it all worked but 2.1....and now 2.1 is one of my strongest signals. Missed it by that much, Mr Smart ? 

50-1, NJ PBS, is almost lockable, and will be when the trees drop leaves.

The only thing I noticed while peaking the signal is that the CM 4228 is more directional than the yagi on the Radio Shack antenna...much more directional. I'm surprised that I got a better VHF hi signal than the monster antenna, but it required very precise aiming.

Mama can now watch Stephen in the evenings and CBS This Morning on Sunday. Household harmony restored.


----------



## speedlaw

And. lastly, the results after aiming the antenna. The CM is very directional.



virtual-rf CM4228 RS VU-120





2-1 33 *93* 45 no lock 
4 28 *87* 87/87 
5 44 *85* 70/91 
7 7 *91* - 89/92 
9 38 *72* - 67 
11 11 *72* 66/79 
13 13 *70* 63 
25 24 *91* 85 
41 40 *60* 71  
68 30 *92* - 80

The CM 4228 works well on VHF-equal or higher numbers to the huge RS antenna.


----------



## LenL

Wow you got great results, especially for VHF. How high off the ground is the 4228? Height is critical for VHF reception. Can you include a pic?


----------



## swcommunity

has anyone notices (3) FM radio stations are now in the 33 block 

33.11 = Thunder 106.3 FM RADIO - NEW JERSEY ROCKIN COUNTRY = http://thunder106.com/ 
33.12 = B98.5 FM RADIO - OCEAN COUNTY'S ONLY HIT MUSIC STATION = http://b985radio.com/ , Seems this is owned by COX media
33.13 = ISLAND 99.7 FM RADIO - OCEAN COUNTY'S GREATEST HITS = http://www.997theisland.com/

^- did something happen with in the last week my tv just started to pick them up out of the blue. I did not even have to rescan.

10016 NYC MURRAY HILL AREA

33.5 = Marine Weather WJLP-WX - NJ MIDDLETOWN
33.10 = Marine Weather WJLP-WX - NJ MIDDLETOWN

^ these two channels have been on air for i says 5 months now. in the start they where in the CLEAR. then like 3 weeks later from the start they went SCRAMBLED , then about a month went bye and they came back CLEAR. its nice to have this weather channels.

Also 3.1 was in the clear and was TEST bars for a bit then it also went to SCRAMBLED and you can not decode it.


----------



## foxycat

Something really weird has happened. I live in the NYC Metro area, and I have an analog TV with converter box and indoor antenna. Last night I suddenly lost my PBS station WNET-Channel 13, and it's not back. I just rescanned, but it's still gone. Moving the antenna around doesn't help either. I'm missing the Convention.


----------



## LenL

I recorded it and will see later today if I lost signal when I watch.

I did check this AM and 13.1 is fine.


----------



## LenL

I viewed the complete coverage with no problem. So the issues are possibly with your equipment. You may need to reset the channels and rescan.


----------



## speedlaw

LenL said:


> Wow you got great results, especially for VHF. How high off the ground is the 4228? Height is critical for VHF reception. Can you include a pic?


The antenna is on 12 feet of pole, above the roof. I'll never posted a foto to this site...with the house, the total above ground is probably 30-40 feet. The antenna isn't pointed at NYC as much as it is pointed down river. The River acts as a waveguide for NYC stations. I will try to post a foto in the daytime.


----------



## foxycat

LenL said:


> I viewed the complete coverage with no problem. So the issues are possibly with your equipment. You may need to reset the channels and rescan.


Thanks for your help. It came back tonight on its own, but it was really weird because it's never happened before.

It wasn't just the Convention, because without PBS, I might as well toss my TV out.

We've had 10 days of extremely hot weather, even extreme for NY. Can that interfere with signals? And , BTW, are the antennas now on the new World Trade Center?


----------



## reddice

WNET has the most unreliable OTA signal as stations I either always get or don't except for WNET . Don't rely on it working for recordings. When watching a Capital 4th which I did not miss much as it was mostly pre recorded material it kept breaking up into a black screen on my TiVo Roamio.


----------



## MeatChicken

foxycat said:


> And , BTW, are the antennas now on the new World Trade Center?


 No, not the current broadcasting antennas.


----------



## foxycat

MeatChicken said:


> No, not the current broadcasting antennas.


No, not the current broadcasting antennas; they're on the -------.


----------



## LenL

Just about all of them are on the ESB (Empire State Building). A few are at broadcast locations scattered around NJ and LI.

There are a number websites that will show you the broadcast locations and give coordinates from your viewing location. Here is just one of them.

http://www.tvfool.com/


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WJLP Adds Audio-Only Diginets for Press Communications' South Jersey FMs*

WJLP Middletown Township has added three new audio-only subchannels, virtual channels 33-11, 33-12, and 33-13.

Here are the specifics with respect to the programming and technical content:

WJLP-DT11 (RF 3-11/Virtual 33-11) transmits a stereo audio-only stream. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Thunder* on virtual channel 33-11. Language is English. Program guide information and date/time is accurate. The current program airing is "Thunder 106.3 FM Radio" with the program description "New Jersey's Rockin' Country". This is a 30-minute program which is looped at 00:00:00 and 00:30:00. Programming is a digitally-fed simulcast of FM stations WKMK (106.3 FM) Eatontown and WTHJ (106.5 FM) Bass River Township.

WJLP-DT12 (RF 3-12/Virtual 33-12) transmits a stereo audio-only stream. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *B985* on virtual channel 33-12. Language is English. Program guide information and date/time is accurate. The current program airing is "B98.5 FM Radio" with the program description "Ocean County's Only Hit Music Station". This is a 30-minute program which is looped at 00:00:00 and 00:30:00. Programming is a digitally-fed simulcast of FM station WBBO (98.5 FM) Ocean Acres.

WJLP-DT13 (RF 3-13/Virtual 33-13) transmits a stereo audio-only stream. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *Island* on virtual channel 33-13. Language is English. Program guide information and date/time is accurate. The current program airing is "Island 99.7 FM Radio" with the program description "Ocean County's Greatest Hits". This is a 30-minute program which is looped at 00:00:00 and 00:30:00. Programming is a digitally-fed simulcast of FM station WBHX (99.7 FM) Tuckerton.

Press Communications, LLC. is the licensee of the three radio stations whose audio feeds are now being carried over WJLP, the licensee of which is PMCM TV, LLC. These two broadcast licensees are commonly owned.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WJLP Eliminates Paid Programming Effective September 1, 2016*

Effective September 1, 2016, WJLP Middletown Township will eliminate Paid Programming from the schedule of it's primary stream. While there is some discrepancy regarding whether this extends to the 8 - 9AM hour due to a contradiction between the announcement by WJLP and online TV listings, this effectively clears the national MeTV lineup in the New York City metropolitan area during all dayparts.

The lone exception of this is late Saturday nights/early Sunday mornings from 4 - 5AM during which time WJLP will continue to air "Haven" in place of MeTV's "Gomer Pyle, USMC" 2x airing.

https://www.facebook.com/metv3/videos/1803793866499162/


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WJLP Adds Audio-Only Diginets for Press Communications' South Jersey AM*

WJLP Middletown Township has added one new audio-only subchannel, virtual channel 33-14. Additionally, a phantom stream carrying no content is airing over virtual channel 33-99.

Here are the specifics with respect to the programming and technical content:

WJLP-DT14 (RF 3-14/Virtual 33-14) transmits an audio-only stream. PSIP TVCT displays the channel name as *1410 AM* on virtual channel 33-14. Language is English. Program guide information and date/time is accurate. The current program airing is "1410 AM Programming" with the program description "1410 AM Programming". This is a 30-minute program which is looped at 00:00:00 and 00:30:00. Programming is a digitally-fed simulcast of AM station WHTG (1410 AM) Eatontown.

WJLP-DT99 (RF 3-99/Virtual 33-99) transmits a phantom stream. PSIP TVCT displays no channel name on virtual channel 33-99. Language is nonexistent. Program guide information is non-existent and date/time is accurate.

Press Communications, LLC. is the licensee of WHTG (1410 AM) Eatontown whose audio feed is now being carried over WJLP, the licensee of which is PMCM TV, LLC. These two broadcast licensees are commonly owned.


----------



## nyctveng

Noticed a couple of new stations: 26.5 La Mega and 38.2 KVFM. 

26.5 has music videos with a request line phone number based in Miami. The 4:3 downconvert is cutting off the logo on the lower right. No subchannels.

38.2 KVFM is full time infomercials and is ID-ing at top of hour as KVFW Fort Worth, TX. No subchannels.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey nyctveng,


nyctveng said:


> Noticed a couple of new stations: 26.5 La Mega and 38.2 KVFM.
> 
> 26.5 has music videos with a request line phone number based in Miami. The 4:3 downconvert is cutting off the logo on the lower right. No subchannels.
> 
> 38.2 KVFM is full time infomercials and is ID-ing at top of hour as KVFW Fort Worth, TX. No subchannels.


At what time did you observe these stations, and can you still receive them?

If you cannot, this was likely e-skip, and if so you are a very lucky man because by your description you potentially received two Low-Power digitals from the Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas market. And had you been moments earlier, you may have been receiving television from Mexico.

KVFW-LD Fort Worth, TX., broadcasts on channel 38. Interestingly, it is licensed to New York Spectrum Holding Company, LLC. And the 26-5 "La Mega" station could be KODF-LD Britton, TX., channel 27, whose analog channel position was 26 that, at one point, aired "Mega TV"


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey nyctveng,
> 
> At what time did you observe these stations, and can you still receive them?
> 
> If you cannot, this was likely e-skip, and if so you are a very lucky man because by your description you potentially received two Low-Power digitals from the Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas market. And had you been moments earlier, you may have been receiving television from Mexico.
> 
> KVFW-LD Fort Worth, TX., broadcasts on channel 38. Interestingly, it is licensed to New York Spectrum Holding Company, LLC. And the 26-5 "La Mega" station could be KODF-LD Britton, TX., channel 27, whose analog channel position was 26 that, at one point, aired "Mega TV"


Much more likely is that the company that owns both KVFW-LD and various New York LPTV stations (WNYX-LD, etc.) borrowed an encoder from/is airing the same programming as the Dallas station and forgot to change the settings on the equipment/the ID on the programming.

- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> Much more likely is that the company that owns both KVFW-LD and various New York LPTV stations (WNYX-LD, etc.) borrowed an encoder from/is airing the same programming as the Dallas station and forgot to change the settings on the equipment/the ID on the programming.
> 
> - Trip


Makes sense Trip. Giacomo, yes I can still receive both channels although 26 La Mega has a frozen picture and no sound.


----------



## Wappingers.dx

*Antennas going up at 1 World Trade*

Looks like May 2017 WNBC, WCBS WNET and WNJU could be the earliest these channels start broadcasting from 1 World Trade Center. 

http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/00...tennas-go-up-at-one-world-trade-center/279509


----------



## KEVINL71

Would this change cause any short spacing issues with other markets? Also, I thought after the WTC disaster, they weren't going to be putting any transmitters back there again?


----------



## Trip in VA

KEVINL71 said:


> Would this change cause any short spacing issues with other markets? Also, I thought after the WTC disaster, they weren't going to be putting any transmitters back there again?


It's FM that has the big short-spacing issue. TV stations aren't licensed based on distance separations or contour protections, so it's somewhat easier for them to move around.

- Trip


----------



## Wappingers.dx

*Wjlp*

Having some issues with WJLP channel 3 here in Westchester. cant get it to come in even with a re-scan of the TV. Made some homemade rabbit ears cut to 44.2 inches and 40 feet up in the air. 

Pulling in channels 2,4,5,7,9,11,13 25,31,41, and 47 with no problem. Im about 30 miles north of WJLP. Anyone else have problems pulling in Channel 3 in Westchester?


----------



## LenL

Wappingers.dx said:


> Looks like May 2017 WNBC, WCBS WNET and WNJU could be the earliest these channels start broadcasting from 1 World Trade Center.
> 
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/00...tennas-go-up-at-one-world-trade-center/279509


What did he base this statement on? How could he know reception will be better?

"When the new transmitters are switched on, *viewers will notice improved reception *but the range will most likely not be extended much beyond what it currently is now, according to Lyons. "


----------



## Trip in VA

Because of the added height, more viewers will have line of sight.

- Trip


----------



## speedlaw

Wappingers.dx said:


> Having some issues with WJLP channel 3 here in Westchester. cant get it to come in even with a re-scan of the TV. Made some homemade rabbit ears cut to 44.2 inches and 40 feet up in the air.
> 
> Pulling in channels 2,4,5,7,9,11,13 25,31,41, and 47 with no problem. Im about 30 miles north of WJLP. Anyone else have problems pulling in Channel 3 in Westchester?


not to be picky, but 10520 is Croton on Hudson, not Wappingers....about 20 ? miles apart.

I got channel 3 with a good signal in Croton, until I changed from an older RS VU-120 to a new Channelmaster eight bay. I knew that the CM antenna wasn't resonant on Lo VHF, but this was done to clear up other issues, and I was willing to lose VHF 3. You need the long elements to pick up VHF Lo.

Back in the analog day, at my location, I got 2, Philly 3 when there was an inversion, and 4 with no issues. You can, however, be in my zip code and not have a line of sight...

Croton is a washboard, so you might or might not have LOS. I am on the river side of a hill about 250 feet up. You also might need more gain/direction than a simple dipole will give you.


----------



## RF Burns

Wappingers.dx said:


> Having some issues with WJLP channel 3 here in Westchester. cant get it to come in even with a re-scan of the TV. Made some homemade rabbit ears cut to 44.2 inches and 40 feet up in the air.
> 
> Pulling in channels 2,4,5,7,9,11,13 25,31,41, and 47 with no problem. Im about 30 miles north of WJLP. Anyone else have problems pulling in Channel 3 in Westchester?


My guess is that your 44 inch antenna is too small for the frequency you're trying to receive. Channels 2, 4, 5, & 9 are all UHF. The old numbers mean nothing from a frequency standpoint. They are so called virtual channels mapping your receiver to replicate the old analog TV line up. Channels 7, 11 & 13 remained on their old frequencies but are all VHF high band frequencies, (174 to 216 Mhz). Located on a low VHF frequency, channel 3 is channel 3 (60 Mhz). A half wave dipole for channel 3 is approx 89 inches.


----------



## ALP

I am having more problems with 2.1 and rainy weather. More drop outs with any kind of heavy rain. Was not that way a year ago.


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> What did he base this statement on? How could he know reception will be better?
> 
> "When the new transmitters are switched on, *viewers will notice improved reception *but the range will most likely not be extended much beyond what it currently is now, according to Lyons. "


Len, I am concerned about this as well. I figure we will have to wait and see.


----------



## LenL

No problems yet with 2.1 here. I used to have issues where I would get it with 100% and then all of a sudden I would have issues for the winter. I suspect it to be the preamps were providing too strong a signal after the leaves came down. Don't have issues now that I removed the preamps.

Signal strength is not as good but signal quality if 100%. I found quality is much more important than strength. Strength can be as low as 50% or lower and with 100% quality viewing is good. However the other way around an reception is bad.

It will be interesting to see if anyone reports more reception issues when they move the antennas. I think there will be people that have to modify their antenna direction (like me) or they will have reception issues. This will not be transparent for OTA folks.


----------



## ALP

Len, It depends on where are. You are 30 west of the ESB, so when the go to the WTC you probably will have to re-aim your antenna. I am 30 miles north of the ESB. I doubt if I will have to re-aim, I just hope that I still get decent signal strength and quality.


----------



## LenL

ALP said:


> Len, It depends on where are. You are 30 west of the ESB, so when the go to the WTC you probably will have to re-aim your antenna. I am 30 miles north of the ESB. I doubt if I will have to re-aim, I just hope that I still get decent signal strength and quality.


People west or east will probably need to re-aim! Also if not all the stations leave the ESB then that will make for a real mess!


----------



## EF9500

Some crazy signals Today! I am pulling in channel 17 from Philadelphia out here on Long Island.


----------



## ALP

EF9500 said:


> Some crazy signals Today! I am pulling in channel 17 from Philadelphia out here on Long Island.


I had Hawaii Five O ruined last night due to all kinds a pixelation and dropouts. Is this solar activity or troposphere?


----------



## EF9500

ALP said:


> I had Hawaii Five O ruined last night due to all kinds a pixelation and dropouts. Is this solar activity or troposphere?


Probably troposphere.


----------



## reddice

ALP said:


> I had Hawaii Five O ruined last night due to all kinds a pixelation and dropouts. Is this solar activity or troposphere?


WPIX pixelate bad. Some days it is fine but when it rains it pixelates bad. I can't believe that WJLP on Lo-VHF RF 3 is more reliable than WPIX on High-VHF RF 11.


----------



## ALP

That is strange with you being so close and having rain problems with WPIX. As I said earlier my big rain problem is WCBS. Occasionally I have some pixelation problems with WPIX and Thirteen, but 2.1 is the worst.


----------



## Aero 1

Here comes another Diginet on WNYW, Light TV 5.4:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...et-faith-based-audiences-mgms-light-tv-949096



> *Roma Downey, Mark Burnett And MGM Launch Light TV With Fox Stations On Board*
> 
> BREAKING: Light TV, a new, 24-hour faith and family entertainment network designed to tap into MGM’s library of titles, is being launched next month by Roma Downey, Mark Burnett and MGM in partnership with a number of Fox stations and affiliates. Plans for the channel were reported about a year ago when the studio agreed to buy the 45% stake it didn’t own in its United Artists Media Group joint venture from Downey, Burnett and Hearst, and then named Burnett as president of its Television and Digital Group. The venture, which will also develop original programming, now has a name and a plan.
> 
> A seven-day-a-week, 24-hour programming schedule would normally be extremely expensive to program, but the idea is all in the repackaging and marketing of existing fare and Burnett and Downey have already proven themselves as great marketers.
> 
> Light TV, they say, will feature “wholesome family and faith-based entertainment programming” and will be the vehicle for the studio to be able to further monetize its film and TV library. The idea is not unlike TV Land in its early days or MeTV where the studio and Lightworkers’ Media Downey along with her husband Burnett who is President of MGM Television and Digital are lining up a bevy of titles to feed the machine. The programming will include Fox’s Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader?, acquisition titles Highway to Heaven and Heartland and a bevy of films from the studio’s library: Rocky, Hoosiers, Red River, Little Man Tate, The Nutcracker, Lilies of the Field, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, The Black Stallion, All Dogs Go To Heaven, Pink Panther, Fame and Mr. Mom to name some of the titles.
> 
> In doing this, MGM is tapping into the cachet of Downey and Burnett whose names have become synonymous with faith-based films and TV programs and then repackaging old titles with a new branding technique.
> 
> The seven-day per week broadcast network already has signed up affiliates in top markets, where it will air on the subchannels of Fox stations, including New York (WNYW), Los Angeles (KTTV). Chicago (WFLD), Philadelphia (WTXF), Dallas (KDFW) – Houston (KRIV), San Francisco (KTVU), D.C. (WTTG), Atlanta (WAGA), Orlando (WOFL), Phoenix (KSAZ), Minneapolis (KMSP) and Charlotte (WJZY).
> 
> “This is the last unclaimed vertical. As we have already seen from the success of The Bible series and our 20 million social followers this audience is looking for inspiring and uplifting programming that they can watch in a trusted and safe environment on any platform,” said Downey in making the announcement this morning.
> 
> MGM currently offers several branded channels in the U.S., including MGM HD (which is currently carried in the U.S. by many of the leading cable satellite and telephone company distribs) and THIS TV, launched in 2008 as one of the original multicast networks features MGM films, local news and sporting events, as well a block of programming dedicated to children’s viewing. THIS TV was launched in partnership with Tribune Broadcasting and has about 130 affiliates aboard making it available in more than 85% of the U.S. market. It also is partnered in Epix and has Comet (in partnership with Sinclair Television group), which is a 24 hour/7 day-per-week science fiction multi-channel network. Comet is said to reach about 65 million homes or 70% of the U.S. Another branded channel from MGM is IMPACT, a VOD service dedicated to action programming which is currently available on numerous platforms, including Comcast’s Xfinity and Sony Vue.


----------



## reddice

WCBS is one of the most reliable stations for me. Even with a indoor antenna I can get it no problem. The only other station is WABC.

With a outdoor antenna WABC and WJLP are the strongest and reliable even though the former is low VHF. I just hope when WPIX and WNET (the worst as it pixelates but goes to a black screen with no signal unlike WPIX which just at times pixelates) is more reliable when it moves to 1WTC.


----------



## MeatChicken

Is WPIX one of the stations moving to WTC in 2017?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes!


----------



## MeatChicken

A quick Google search only seemed to indicate Chs 2, 4, 13 & 47 , no mentions of 11 ...
Any links to WPIX also moving?


----------



## SnellKrell

MeatChicken said:


> A quick Google search only seemed to indicate Chs 2, 4, 13 & 47 , no mentions of 11 ...
> Any links to WPIX also moving?


Link isn't working right now, but if you go to rabbitears.info,
WPIX is listed as one of the stations scheduled to be located
at 1 WTC.


----------



## Trip in VA

WPIX has a valid permit for 1WTC but I haven't heard them coming to an agreement to actually move there yet. Doesn't mean they will or they won't, of course.

- Trip


----------



## roseha

I've had very good luck with WJLP the last few months. I record Perry Mason 10 times a week and used to have irritating breakups that sometimes made the show impossible to watch. Now I have no trouble at all (I have an indoor antenna in NYC). One thing that has helped me is being sure that my antenna cable doesn't touch any other cables of any kind. They are good quality cable but the difference is really noticeable at times.


----------



## steveesq

roseha said:


> I've had very good luck with WJLP the last few months. I record Perry Mason 10 times a week and used to have irritating breakups that sometimes made the show impossible to watch. Now I have no trouble at all (I have an indoor antenna in NYC). One thing that has helped me is being sure that my antenna cable doesn't touch any other cables of any kind. They are good quality cable but the difference is really noticeable at times.


I have been receiving WJLP on Long Island with my DIY outdoor antenna since May when I made the switch from cable. In fact, this reception was very important to making the switch. I have never had a problem with reception, until last Sunday through yesterday, when the signal dropped from one tv but was still received on another, both sharing the antenna. Then, last night I started receiving the signal again, and happily watched Perry Mason again.

I can't figure it out. If it was the antenna, why would one TV keep receiving just fine? If it was the cable, why would it start working again? If it was the tv's tuner, why weren't all channels affected?

Does anyone have any thoughts, insights or solutions should this recur?

Thanks


----------



## nyctveng

steveesq said:


> I have been receiving WJLP on Long Island with my DIY outdoor antenna since May when I made the switch from cable. In fact, this reception was very important to making the switch. I have never had a problem with reception, until last Sunday through yesterday, when the signal dropped from one tv but was still received on another, both sharing the antenna. Then, last night I started receiving the signal again, and happily watched Perry Mason again.
> 
> I can't figure it out. If it was the antenna, why would one TV keep receiving just fine? If it was the cable, why would it start working again? If it was the tv's tuner, why weren't all channels affected?
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts, insights or solutions should this recur?
> 
> Thanks


atmospheric conditions may be affecting the overall received signal level of the channel. Is the length of cable from the splitter to the working TV shorter than the one that drops out? What make/model are the TVs? When both are working, what does the signal strength show on each of the TVs?


----------



## reddice

WJLP is one of the most reliable stations being on Low-VHF yet High-VHF 11 and 13 can't stop breaking up at times.


----------



## steveesq

nyctveng said:


> atmospheric conditions may be affecting the overall received signal level of the channel. Is the length of cable from the splitter to the working TV shorter than the one that drops out? What make/model are the TVs? When both are working, what does the signal strength show on each of the TVs?


the cable length to the working tv is shorter and that is a westinghouse bought last year. The other is a sharp bought about 5 years ago which is the one that lost the signal. I do receive a couple of other channels on the newer tv than the other. My third tv is an older Hitachi which can pick up weak channel signals but not tune them in, including Me Tv. 

The received signal has always been about 50%. I had been considering a low-level preamp because of the loss through splitting the signal 3 ways, but I'm worried that this might just overload most channels, since I'm only about 15-20 miles from the sources.

I've also been considering another outdoor antenna on the other side of the house and combining the signals before the splitter. My research shows that both cable lengths have to be exactly the same and could give a stronger signal. 

Nevertheless, the channel has been coming in nicely since I got it back!


----------



## steveesq

reddice said:


> WJLP is one of the most reliable stations being on Low-VHF yet High-VHF 11 and 13 can't stop breaking up at times.


Once I was able to tune my antenna and received WJPL it has been reliable until this episode. I have no problem getting a steady strong signal for 7, 11 and 13. On very windy days I get break ups on 2, 4 and 5 which are real UHF channels now but the VHFs have no such problems.

I'm still figuring all this out. It isn't like the old days when we just dealt with "snow".


----------



## criggs

Well, here's my status at the moment.

I have a Channel Master DVR+, which has a tuner capable of receiving digital signals only, not analog signals. I am located in midtown Manhattan in New York City, and my 27th floor apartment faces East.

While the DVR+ tuner is praised for its sensitivity to weak signals, it does not far as well in environments where the signal is very strong and where multipath signals are a problem unfortunately.

I started out with a single Mohu Leaf 30 Indoor Multi-directional antenna. But, while it provided me with strong signals for most of the local channels, the signal quality was quite iffy, superb in some cases, wretched in others; and we're talking about very close-by signals (e.g. RF 24/digital signals 25.1, 25.2 and 25.3, WNYE-DT).

A blog post on Solid Signal suggested, as one trick to try, the purchase of a second identical antenna. Take an antenna splitter and reverse the signal flow. Connect the two antennas to two of the splitter's outputs. Then connect a cable from the splitter's input to the coaxial antenna input on the DVR+.

I did so.

I have experienced some improvement. However I still find that I have to re-position the antenna for certain stations, even stations with strong signals that are very close by.

The biggest headache of this situation is that if I want to record more than one station at the same time on the DVR+, I frequently find that there is no positioning of the antennas that can bring both stations in properly, and I sometimes have to sacrifice certain programming as a result.

Right now, I have the two antennas configured so that I can bring in four of the five stations which I regularly watch and record.

Even there I have had to compromise. While all four stations come in with strong 100 signal strength, only two of them come in with 100 signal quality now; the other two come in with an average of around 70 signal quality.

Here is my TV Fool profile: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=dfaf692be0fa15 .

One of my antennas is around a foot away from the window and is pointing Northeast at a height of about three feet. The other antenna is about four feet away from the window and about two feet South of the first antenna, pointing due South at a height of about six feet.

Any suggestions? Is there something more I can do? Should I explore a totally different kind of antenna?


----------



## criggs

criggs said:


> I have the two antennas configured so that I can bring in four of the five stations which I regularly watch and record.


This morning everything had changed. Of the four stations which I had, one, NBC, had totally disappeared, and the others were in trouble. Moreover no amount of fiddling brought me back to all four or five stations.

So I then disconnected one of the antennas and BOOM! Suddenly I was getting four of the five stations fine.

It looks like this is always going to be a moving target, and always unreliable.

Meanwhile I still have the RCA ANTB25 connected to my Vizio TV and the Vizio still gets every channel fine, and I've never had to move or fiddle with the RCA antenna at all. And no, the DVR+ does not like the RCA; its performance with the RCA is even worse than with Mohu.

It just looks like the DVR+'s tuners simply were not designed for my situation.


----------



## Trip in VA

Connecting two antennas in the manner you've suggested is rarely a good idea and usually results in signal problems. You would likely be better off with just one.

- Trip


----------



## Beruda

As of 1/1/17 Justice Network (33.2) has been replaced by Laff Network. Laff was already on one of the channel 7 channels so why the move. Also why is Escape on 2 channels, 68.4 and 33.4? This has been the case for quite some time. Emailed the station. I don't see any info regarding this on JN.
Thanks


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Beruda,

Welcome to the AVS NYC OTA Forum!


Beruda said:


> As of 1/1/17 Justice Network (33.2) has been replaced by Laff Network. Laff was already on one of the channel 7 channels so why the move. Also why is Escape on 2 channels, 68.4 and 33.4? This has been the case for quite some time. Emailed the station. I don't see any info regarding this on JN.
> Thanks


It sounds like you are saying there is no longer any Justice, and this is no Laffing matter.


----------



## criggs

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey Beruda,
> 
> Welcome to the AVS NYC OTA Forum!
> 
> It sounds like you are saying there is no longer any Justice, and this is no Laffing matter.


Boo! Hiss!


----------



## Beruda

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey Beruda,
> 
> Welcome to the AVS NYC OTA Forum!
> 
> It sounds like you are saying there is no longer any Justice, and this is no Laffing matter.


Oh brother


----------



## nyctveng

Beruda said:


> As of 1/1/17 Justice Network (33.2) has been replaced by Laff Network. Laff was already on one of the channel 7 channels so why the move. Also why is Escape on 2 channels, 68.4 and 33.4? This has been the case for quite some time. Emailed the station. I don't see any info regarding this on JN.
> Thanks


Did it occur to you that Escape and Laff are trying to reach as many OTA viewers as possible. There is of course overlap of WJLP and WABC but many areas can get one and not the other. WJLP can and will lease subchannels to anyone willing to pay and do not have to justify that to you.


----------



## steveesq

nyctveng said:


> Did it occur to you that Escape and Laff are trying to reach as many OTA viewers as possible. There is of course overlap of WJLP and WABC but many areas can get one and not the other. WJLP can and will lease subchannels to anyone willing to pay and do not have to justify that to you.


I too enjoyed the Justice Network and am disappointed that it's no longer carried on WJLP's sub-channel. I have not been able to learn what happened but WJLP has several radio station sub-channels so it wasn't a question of bandwidth availability it seems to me. Perhaps one of those radio stations could have been used for the Justice Network.

Also, Comet TV needs a local outlet. If WJLP was able to strike a deal for one of the radio sub-channels, they'd really be a major viewing option for several stations. For me, I'd spend most of my time on channels 33 and the 33 dashes!

I don't know what the costs are for the various networks to broadcast on these sub-channels or what deals are already in place or for how long. I assume there are discussions and negotiations since this signal reaches millions of people in the NYC metro area, and I hope deals will be made to expand the available channels.

But I really appreciate what WJLP has been doing with MeTV and the other sub-channels. Being able to receive WJLP with my antenna was the final reason to ditch the cable box and go with the antenna. The owners could really strengthen their position by striking the deals with Justice and Comet.


----------



## nyctveng

steveesq said:


> I too enjoyed the Justice Network and am disappointed that it's no longer carried on WJLP's sub-channel. I have not been able to learn what happened but WJLP has several radio station sub-channels so it wasn't a question of bandwidth availability it seems to me. Perhaps one of those radio stations could have been used for the Justice Network.
> 
> .


a radio station takes up 1/10 to 1/30 of the bandwidth needed for a video channel


----------



## Beruda

nyctveng said:


> Did it occur to you that Escape and Laff are trying to reach as many OTA viewers as possible. There is of course overlap of WJLP and WABC but many areas can get one and not the other. WJLP can and will lease subchannels to anyone willing to pay and do not have to justify that to you.


 Why the nasty comment? I was just asking if anyone had heard anything. Jeez!


----------



## reddice

Since WJLP and WABC and yes even one on low-VHF are way more reliable than WPIX (can't wait until it moves to 1WTC) and WNET it is dumb to have the same sub channel on the 2 strongest stations.


----------



## criggs

Beruda said:


> Why the nasty comment? I was just asking if anyone had heard anything. Jeez!


Yeah, I noticed the nasty tone too. It surprised and confused me too.


----------



## dvdchance

Just noticed this morning WNYW has a new sub, 5-4 Light TV. When did this start?

***Disregard, just saw the post about Light TV.


----------



## Aero 1

dvdchance said:


> Just noticed this morning WNYW has a new sub, 5-4 Light TV. When did this start?


over a week ago. was supposed to start last month.


----------



## DennisHPC

*WWOR Question*

Anyone know why WWOR recently lowered their power level to only 170 KW?


----------



## Trip in VA

DennisHPC said:


> Anyone know why WWOR recently lowered their power level to only 170 KW?


Recently? I don't think 2004 is all that recent. And it was off the air due to 9/11 before that.

- Trip


----------



## DennisHPC

Trip in VA said:


> Recently? I don't think 2004 is all that recent. And it was off the air due to 9/11 before that.
> 
> - Trip


I thought that WWOR had a power output of around 300 kw. We have a summer residence in northwest NJ and pull in the major networks from NYC. I noticed a significant drop in the NM (db) for WWOR for that location from what we had seen for the last several years compared. I could attach the radar plots if that would be any help.


----------



## Wappingers.dx

Anyone in the Newburgh area lose Fox 5 via the Mt Beacon translator on real ch 32? 

Its been down for over a week now for me.


----------



## Trip in VA

After a very extended outage, the Live Bandscan receiver at my grandmother's house is back in working order.

https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=10343612&tno=1

There were two different issues. First and most obviously, the network cable to the computer running the program had gotten unplugged. But second, the power supply for the HDHomeRun had burned out. It smelled burned, too. So I had a spare that I swapped in.

I'm fidgeting with the antenna placement again trying to get all of the stations to be relatively stable. So far, no luck; at least one is below threshold in any position I try. I'm leaving tomorrow morning, so whatever you see at about 9AM tomorrow is about what it should be going forward until my next visit. I need to find a better antenna than the rabbit ears attached to it now.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


Trip in VA said:


> After a very extended outage, the Live Bandscan receiver at my grandmother's house is back in working order.
> 
> https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=10343612&tno=1
> 
> There were two different issues. First and most obviously, the network cable to the computer running the program had gotten unplugged. But second, the power supply for the HDHomeRun had burned out. It smelled burned, too. So I had a spare that I swapped in.
> 
> I'm fidgeting with the antenna placement again trying to get all of the stations to be relatively stable. So far, no luck; at least one is below threshold in any position I try. I'm leaving tomorrow morning, so whatever you see at about 9AM tomorrow is about what it should be going forward until my next visit. I need to find a better antenna than the rabbit ears attached to it now.
> 
> - Trip


Looking at your tuner log, there is significant RF activity on RF channels 57 through 61 with (at approximately 10:25PM EDT. on 01/31/2017) an especially strong signal on channel 60. Through all the available data, can you please confirm which signals these are?


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Hey Trip,
> 
> Looking at your tuner log, there is significant RF activity on RF channels 57 through 61 with (at approximately 10:25PM EDT. on 01/31/2017) an especially strong signal on channel 60. Through all the available data, can you please confirm which signals these are?


As it is in most of the US, 52/57 is T-Mobile, 53/54/55/56/58/59 is AT&T, 60/61/65/66 is Verizon.

- Trip


----------



## reddice

Anyone have issues with WPIX. You can be watching it and then it just starts to break up bad. It already ruined a few of my programs which is why now I have to record it on my Dish Network feed. I original got the Tivo because of the loss of WPIX on Dish during the summer.

Also I notice when WPIX is a pixilated mess the Dish Network WPIX feed will break up a bit too. This station has to move to 1WTC soon.


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> As it is in most of the US, 52/57 is T-Mobile, 53/54/55/56/58/59 is AT&T, 60/61/65/66 is Verizon.
> 
> - Trip


Hey Trip, whats the deal with those Airbox encrypted channels on ION. Its been years, the company never happened, but they are still being broadcast. are they being used by customers?


----------



## Trip in VA

Aero 1 said:


> Hey Trip, whats the deal with those Airbox encrypted channels on ION. Its been years, the company never happened, but they are still being broadcast. are they being used by customers?


The service is actually available in certain markets, just not all of the markets in which the channels are being transmitted.

https://www.airbox.com/content/coming-soon

- Trip


----------



## LenL

reddice said:


> Anyone have issues with WPIX. You can be watching it and then it just starts to break up bad. It already ruined a few of my programs which is why now I have to record it on my Dish Network feed. I original got the Tivo because of the loss of WPIX on Dish during the summer.
> 
> Also I notice when WPIX is a pixilated mess the Dish Network WPIX feed will break up a bit too. This station has to move to 1WTC soon.


No issues here. Have you checked both signal quality and strength?


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> After a very extended outage, the Live Bandscan receiver at my grandmother's house is back in working order.
> 
> https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=10343612&tno=1
> 
> There were two different issues. First and most obviously, the network cable to the computer running the program had gotten unplugged. But second, the power supply for the HDHomeRun had burned out. It smelled burned, too. So I had a spare that I swapped in.
> 
> I'm fidgeting with the antenna placement again trying to get all of the stations to be relatively stable. So far, no luck; at least one is below threshold in any position I try. I'm leaving tomorrow morning, so whatever you see at about 9AM tomorrow is about what it should be going forward until my next visit. I need to find a better antenna than the rabbit ears attached to it now.
> 
> - Trip


Thanks Trip for keeping this service going for us! Much appreciated!


----------



## LenL

reddice said:


> Anyone have issues with WPIX. You can be watching it and then it just starts to break up bad. It already ruined a few of my programs which is why now I have to record it on my Dish Network feed. I original got the Tivo because of the loss of WPIX on Dish during the summer.
> 
> Also I notice when WPIX is a pixilated mess the Dish Network WPIX feed will break up a bit too. This station has to move to 1WTC soon.


Also you can go to Trips website and check his live band scanner results which will show if there are issues with any broadcasters.

It can confirm if your issue is local to you only or widespread.


----------



## nyctveng

*Wnet vme*

I doubt it will be missed but WNET has followed suit with PBS stations across the country in dropping V-Me


----------



## Trip in VA

Did WNET replace it with anything? If not, did they delete the subchannel or is it running a test pattern or something?

- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> Did WNET replace it with anything? If not, did they delete the subchannel or is it running a test pattern or something?
> 
> - Trip


pic


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks.

- Trip


----------



## roseha

I'm having an issue I don't understand with WJLP, MeTV from New Jersey. I don't know when this began, but my Tivo Premiere is receiving two versions of this station over the air. one is WJLPHD and the other is WJLPDT I think. The problem is that when I try to record a program my Tivo records both of them at once. This means I can't record a second show at that time because Tivo thinks I'm recording two already. It took me awhile to figure out what was happening, but I don't know how to resolve this. I re-ran my channel scan and it didn't help. I guess I can record the channel on cable instead but the broadcast quality is usually better. Does anyone else have this issue?


----------



## Aero 1

roseha said:


> I'm having an issue I don't understand with WJLP, MeTV from New Jersey. I don't know when this began, but my Tivo Premiere is receiving two versions of this station over the air. one is WJLPHD and the other is WJLPDT I think. The problem is that when I try to record a program my Tivo records both of them at once. This means I can't record a second show at that time because Tivo thinks I'm recording two already. It took me awhile to figure out what was happening, but I don't know how to resolve this. I re-ran my channel scan and it didn't help. I guess I can record the channel on cable instead but the broadcast quality is usually better. Does anyone else have this issue?


Just remove one of them from the channel settings.


----------



## roseha

Aero 1 said:


> Just remove one of them from the channel settings.


thanks I tried to clear it but it still shows up. I don't know if it's a Tivo issue or a station issue, but is there any reason that WJLP would broadcast two versions over 33-1, one WJLPDT, and one WJLPTDHD? I can record just one individually but not in a Season Pass. Tivo reads them as two. Anyway is there more than one version being broadcast?


----------



## reddice

My TiVo on WJLP says press D to view in HD but doing so does nothing as it is already in 720p. Actually both the main and the sub channel are the same in 720p.


----------



## Aero 1

roseha said:


> thanks I tried to clear it but it still shows up. I don't know if it's a Tivo issue or a station issue, but is there any reason that WJLP would broadcast two versions over 33-1, one WJLPDT, and one WJLPTDHD? I can record just one individually but not in a Season Pass. Tivo reads them as two. Anyway is there more than one version being broadcast?


no, there is no more than one WJLP being broadcast. When tivo switched to the Rovi guide after the rovi merger, rovi metadata appeared. simply remove one of them and the one pass will only use the one that is left.


----------



## roseha

Aero 1 said:


> no, there is no more than one WJLP being broadcast. When tivo switched to the Rovi guide after the rovi merger, rovi metadata appeared. simply remove one of them and the one pass will only use the one that is left.


Okay thanks again. Strange about the Rovi listing. Maybe I should re-run setup.


----------



## stillonacrt

*Has WRNN (Ch 48) signal weakened recently?*

Has anyone who gets WRNN OTA (Ch 48 physical and digital) noticed a degraded signal recently?

Relative's house (Brooklyn) receives OTA via a fairly multidirectional 2 (or 4) element rooftop bow-tie facing the Empire State Building (~9 miles). I haven't been there to check the antenna and wiring physically yet.

Reception for all other channels remains the same, but for the past couple of weeks WRNN has been completely out or otherwise unviewable (signal meter shows very weak). Despite the 60(?) mi distance, for years the signal had been pretty steadily in the middle range as seen by the signal strength "bar".

Thanks.


----------



## Wappingers.dx

stillonacrt said:


> Has anyone who gets WRNN OTA (Ch 48 physical and digital) noticed a degraded signal recently?




WRNN Signal's pretty good for me but then again I'm right in their backyard. 

I did however notice they bumped 48.1 from 480i to 1080i which looks pretty good when they are running one of their own produced shows. Most of the time you can't tell due to WRNN's love of running infomercials


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,

I see you have updated your rabbitears.info site for the New York City market to reflect the eventual channel positions of some TV stations following the repack. Just a few questions:

1. How will the presumed interference issues be reconciled given that stations WCBS-TV, WNYW, WWOR-TV, and WLNY-TV, among others, will be moving to channel positions which are currently occupied and, presumably, will be remaining on their current channels?

2. Given the eventual repacking and shrinkage of the UHF television band, why has Venture Technologies Group been granted so many approvals for seven translator stations licensed to Port Jervis, NY. between channels 22 through 41 (41 presently being on the air as WNJJ-LD)? Will these stations be used exclusively for television service?

3. Do we know at this time all the stations that will be completely turning in their broadcast license, besides WRNN-TV Kingston?

4. Can it be anticipated at this time that the ATSC 3.0 standard will fully be implemented prior to the repacking and shifting of the television bands? And might the new standard require a complete remapping of the present 6 MHz channel assignments into smaller channels, thus virtually expanding the TV band?

Looks like busy times for many television engineers and their respective staffs are ahead.


----------



## stillonacrt

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check out 48.1 when I get there. And yeah. Guess you're a _little_ bit closer to the transmitters 

Latest report is that as of today it's back to being received at its former strength. Maybe some big snow-ice bank in the way has melted. 

Still amazed they are able to get a fairly reliable signal from that distance with such a small, inexpensive antenna. (TVFool doesn't even list the station until you enter an antenna height 40% higher than reality, and even then it's a bad "2-edge" signal.)


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> 1. How will the presumed interference issues be reconciled given that stations WCBS-TV, WNYW, WWOR-TV, and WLNY-TV, among others, will be moving to channel positions which are currently occupied and, presumably, will be remaining on their current channels?


That's an awfully big presumption. What's it based on?



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> 2. Given the eventual repacking and shrinkage of the UHF television band, why has Venture Technologies Group been granted so many approvals for seven translator stations licensed to Port Jervis, NY. between channels 22 through 41 (41 presently being on the air as WNJJ-LD)? Will these stations be used exclusively for television service?


Probably in the hopes that some of the channels they're on will open up in New York and become available for them to move into New York post-auction. It's a strategic move on the assumption that some will have value while others will go away.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> 3. Do we know at this time all the stations that will be completely turning in their broadcast license, besides WRNN-TV Kingston?


No. And WRNN indicated they're looking at channel sharing in any event, so there's no guarantee of what you're saying about WRNN either.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> 4. Can it be anticipated at this time that the ATSC 3.0 standard will fully be implemented prior to the repacking and shifting of the television bands?


Hard to say.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> And might the new standard require a complete remapping of the present 6 MHz channel assignments into smaller channels, thus virtually expanding the TV band?


Absolutely not.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Thank you, Trip!



Trip in VA said:


> That's an awfully big presumption. What's it based on?


That presumption is based on the existing instances of physical and virtual co-channel interference which exist on the current UHF television band, such as the KYW-TV Philadelphia, WFSB Hartford, and WJLP Middletown Township issue, the WFSB and WCBS-TV New York issue, the WNYJ-TV West Milford and WUVP Vineland issue, and presumably many more such instances which occur throughout the country. And I think it's reasonable to conclude that interference instances increase in prevalence when the electromagnetic real estate shrinks, such as it did back in June 2009 with the original Analog to Digital transition. It's even more reasonable to come to this conclusion given the fact that the FCC apparently now recognizes the concept of virtual interference, as proven in the first interference issue I referenced.

Whether the stations I referenced remain on their current channel positions or ultimately move, it is more likely than not - again, due to the further shrinking of the TV band - that another full-power station will occupy the position and not a lesser-protected LD or translator.

Is it fair to say that the Venture stations operating or soon-to-be operating on channel positions that ultimately are assigned to full-power stations will be displaced or ultimately foreclosed altogether, or might these translators be afforded extra protections above those currently provided?


----------



## Trip in VA

So you really think the FCC is assigning WCBS and WNJU to the same channel on the same building? Is it not more likely that WNJU gets moved to a different channel or goes off the air? I think you would be best served waiting for the final channel assignment to be released. 

And remember, some stations will be moving to VHF or going off air. It's a smaller plot of real estate--with fewer people living on it.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Will channels 14, 15, and 16 still be restricted for non-television usages in New York City proper following the repacking?


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes, the land mobile channels were reserved as they are today.

- Trip


----------



## onwisconsin

WNBC is going off air... NBC 4 is LEAVING!


----------



## Trip in VA

And yet WNJU remains on the air. It's almost as if NBC sold one of their two signals and could put both on the one transmitter...

...like they're already doing in Boston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Trip in VA said:


> And yet WNJU remains on the air. It's almost as if NBC sold one of their two signals and could put both on the one transmitter...
> 
> ...like they're already doing in Boston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco.
> 
> - Trip


Funny how that happened to work out that way  While I won't speak for onwisconsin, I think the incredulous element of this is that WNBC's original incarnation, WNBT New York, was one of the first two commercial television stations to commence operations in the United States. The other station was WCBW New York, now WCBS-TV New York. Another first for WNBT was its operation on channel 1 (44-50 MHz) under experimental call-sign W2XBS. What does all this mean for the present communications environment? Absolutely nothing.

_*TRIP*_: Going forward, should Comcast wish to continue WNBC programming over-the-air and share space on the WNJU Linden signal, would the WNBC spectrum be separately licensed or would it operate as a subchannel of WNJU?

Incidentally, Comcast will not be leaving the airwaves entirely in the markets Trip referenced; that corporation was one of the three successful bidders in the incentive auction and will be using the repurposed spectrum for other commercial for-profit purposes  The corporation issued a statement following the auction results release saying they were retaining the "superior" television signal in each of the markets in which they cashed-out.

The other stations in the New York City market that will relinquish their spectrum are as follows:

WEBR-CD New York (RF 49)
WMBQ-CD New York (RF 46)
WMUN-CD New York (RF 45)
WNBC New York (RF 28)
WNJN Montclair, NJ. (RF 51)
WNYJ-TV West Milford, NJ. (RF 29)
WRNN-TV Kingston, NY. (RF 48)
WTBY-TV Poughkeepsie, NY. (RF 27)
WXTV Paterson, NJ. (RF 40)


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes. WNBC would hold a separate license for the same channel 35 spectrum that WNJU (as channel sharing "host") will be licensed for.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Trip in VA said:


> Yes. WNBC would hold a separate license for the same channel 35 spectrum that WNJU (as channel sharing "host") will be licensed for.
> 
> - Trip


Then how would the issue of subchannels be handled? This presumes Comcast intends to share on channel 35 and maintain their present channel lineups of Cozi TV for WNBC and Telexitos for WNJU....


----------



## StudioTech

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Then how would the issue of subchannels be handled? This presumes Comcast intends to share on channel 35 and maintain their present channel lineups of Cozi TV for WNBC and Telexitos for WNJU....



More than likely, it would mean that the signal will be split four ways.


----------



## Trip in VA

The one signal would transmit 4-1, 4-2, 47-1, and 47-2, and each pair would be separately licensed for channel 35.

- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> The one signal would transmit 4-1, 4-2, 47-1, and 47-2, and each pair would be separately licensed for channel 35.
> 
> - Trip


Is this channel sharing expected to be implemented in th existing ATSC 1.0 system or will they wait for ATSC 3.0?


----------



## Trip in VA

Aero 1 said:


> Is this channel sharing expected to be implemented in th existing ATSC 1.0 system or will they wait for ATSC 3.0?


Current system. NBC already runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, and COZI/Exitos (depending on the specific transmitter) in San Francisco and Philadelphia, and runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, COZI, and Exitos in Boston.

And, of course, Univision is already running dual HD and dual SD on both its New York signals.

- Trip


----------



## criggs

Trip in VA said:


> Current system. NBC already runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, and COZI/Exitos (depending on the specific transmitter) in San Francisco and Philadelphia, and runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, COZI, and Exitos in Boston.
> 
> And, of course, Univision is already running dual HD and dual SD on both its New York signals.
> 
> - Trip


I watch WNBC Channel 4 regularly. I record it regularly on my Channel Master OTA DVR+. Does this mean that I will have to rescan my channels, since WNBC Channel 4 will be on a different RF channel? If WNBC Channel 4's RF channel will be moving, is that new RF channel already in use by WNJU? If I check my reception, right now, of WNJU, will that tell me how well I will receive the new RF channel for WNBC Channel 4? When will this be happening? I presume that if this change is accompanied by WNBC Channel 4 upgrading to ATSC 3.0, that means I will no longer be able to receive WNBC Channel 4 on the DVR+, right? Are there any OTA DVR's at the moment that can receive ATSC 3.0? Understand I'm a rank newbie so some of these questions may have already been answered but I just didn't understand the answer.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey criggs,

A rescan will definitely be in order following the repack as WNBC will be among many stations to transition to other channel positions. The other stations include WCBS-TV, WNYW, WWOR-TV, WNET, WLIW, WDVB-CD, WPXN-TV, WNJU, WLNY-TV, and WFUT. The only difference is that of all those stations, only WFUT and WNJU will be involved in channel-sharing situations, with WXTV and WNBC respectively.


----------



## dvdchance

When is the effective date for the changes?


----------



## Aero 1

criggs said:


> I watch WNBC Channel 4 regularly. I record it regularly on my Channel Master OTA DVR+. Does this mean that I will have to rescan my channels, since WNBC Channel 4 will be on a different RF channel? If WNBC Channel 4's RF channel will be moving, is that new RF channel already in use by WNJU? If I check my reception, right now, of WNJU, will that tell me how well I will receive the new RF channel for WNBC Channel 4? When will this be happening? I presume that if this change is accompanied by WNBC Channel 4 upgrading to ATSC 3.0, that means I will no longer be able to receive WNBC Channel 4 on the DVR+, right? Are there any OTA DVR's at the moment that can receive ATSC 3.0? Understand I'm a rank newbie so some of these questions may have already been answered but I just didn't understand the answer.





dvdchance said:


> When is the effective date for the changes?


https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/consumer-faqs-tv-spectrum-auction


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> The one signal would transmit 4-1, 4-2, 47-1, and 47-2, and each pair would be separately licensed for channel 35.
> 
> - Trip



So saying NBC is going off the air is NOT entirely correct? Perhaps from a techie perspective. However NBC programming will still be available for OTA viewers as see their favorite shows after the repack. Is that correct Trip?


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> Current system. NBC already runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, and COZI/Exitos (depending on the specific transmitter) in San Francisco and Philadelphia, and runs dual HD with NBC, Telemundo, COZI, and Exitos in Boston.
> 
> And, of course, Univision is already running dual HD and dual SD on both its New York signals.
> 
> - Trip


Trip doesn't WNJU Broadcast out of NJ? If so then when WNBC joins WNJU will it move to the ESB or still broadcast out of NJ?


----------



## DrDon

LenL said:


> So saying NBC is going off the air is NOT entirely correct? Perhaps from a techie perspective. However NBC programming will still be available for OTA viewers as see their favorite shows after the repack. Is that correct Trip?


 Hope Trip doesn't mind if I field this one: You're correct. NBC programming simply moves to WNJU's frequency. The day that happens, OTA users may need to do a channel rescan. Once that's done, NBC will still show up as 4.1 as before. Since WNJU is the better signal, 4.1 may be more stable than it was via WNBC. 

If I were them, I'd also apply to have the call letters to WNJU changed to WNBC just so the TOH ID doesn't confuse anyone.



LenL said:


> Trip doesn't WNJU Broadcast out of NJ? If so then when WNBC joins WNJU will it move to the ESB or still broadcast out of NJ?


The FCC database shows them already on ESB.


----------



## criggs

DrDon said:


> The FCC database shows them already on ESB.


What's ESB?


----------



## DrDon

ESB = Empire State Building


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes, WNJU is already on the Empire State Building, but has an STA to begin operating from 1 World Trade Center. Not sure when that will happen.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

DrDon said:


> Hope Trip doesn't mind if I field this one: You're correct. NBC programming simply moves to WNJU's frequency. The day that happens, OTA users may need to do a channel rescan. Once that's done, NBC will still show up as 4.1 as before. Since WNJU is the better signal, 4.1 may be more stable than it was via WNBC.
> 
> If I were them, I'd also apply to have the call letters to WNJU changed to WNBC just so the TOH ID doesn't confuse anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> The FCC database shows them already on ESB.


I don't think the FCC knows where they are as this FCC website shows them broadcasting from NJ. https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps

Perhaps they moved to the ESB and this site is no longer being maintained but is up and running with bum info! Just Great!


----------



## LenL

Dr. Don,

May be on the docs you are reading WNJU should be a better signal than WNBC. However I am one OTA person that gets significantly better signal from WNBC 4.1 than WNJU 47.1. Signal strength is 80 versus 40 in favor of WNBC and quality is 100 versus 60 in favor of WNBC.

I am 30 miles west of the ESB in the hills of north central NJ. Maybe I am one of the few people that will see much poorer reception!


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> Dr. Don,
> 
> May be on the docs you are reading WNJU should be a better signal than WNBC. However I am one OTA person that gets significantly better signal from WNBC 4.1 than WNJU 47.1. Signal strength is 80 versus 40 in favor of WNBC and quality is 100 versus 60 in favor of WNBC.
> 
> I am 30 miles west of the ESB in the hills of north central NJ. Maybe I am one of the few people that will see much poorer reception!


LenL, you should see an improvement in WNJU & WNBC when both move to 1 WTC


----------



## Channel99

nyctveng said:


> LenL, you should see an improvement in WNJU & WNBC when both move to 1 WTC


As Trip has pointed out before, the construction permit for 1WTC for WNJU allows 530 KW, but the construction permit for WNBC allows only 170 KW. That is very likely the main reason for keeping WNJU.


----------



## reddice

I can't even get WNJU so losing WNBC for more wasted cell bandwidth I am ticked. Just auction off 500 mhz for the overpaid cell companies in a few years and get rid of traditional FM radio for more internet of things junk. Then make the OTA stations cable/satellite/IPTV subscription only and move the FM stations online only. I see this going to happen in the next 10 years.


----------



## Trip in VA

I think something is being lost in this discussion: *WNJU is moving to 1WTC. *As of right now, no stations are located there, so any statements about how reliable WNJU is right now are not reflective of how it will be by the time WNBC's transmitter goes off the air.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> I think something is being lost in this discussion: *WNJU is moving to 1WTC. *As of right now, no stations are located there, so any statements about how reliable WNJU is right now are not reflective of how it will be by the time WNBC's transmitter goes off the air.
> 
> - Trip


Thanks Trip. So you are certain that NBC will not be using the ESB when it loses it's transmitter? That is good news. It is bad news if there is a delay in the move to 1WTC and they operate from the ESB for any length. I don't have much faith in schedules being very reliable these days.

Are there any schedules for the move out of the ESB to 1WTC? I haven't seen any if they exist. If they don't exist yet then that could be a problem.


----------



## Trip in VA

NBC has already filed an STA for it and the FCC has granted it, so it has to be reasonably close; STAs only last 6 months at a time.

- Trip


----------



## criggs

nyctveng said:


> LenL, you should see an improvement in WNJU & WNBC when both move to 1 WTC


Are there any stations that transmit out of 1 WTC at the moment? I'm trying to get a feel for how good my reception is for those stations.


----------



## Trip in VA

Not yet.

- Trip


----------



## DennisHPC

*WWOR and WNYW*

With all of this repacking of the stations in NYC, what will happen to WWOR and WNYW? I believe they currently broadcast on channels 38 and 44, respectively.


----------



## DrDon

WNYW moves to 27
WWOR moves to 25

Both around August, 2019. At that time, you'll need to rescan.


----------



## DennisHPC

*Wcbs*

Which channel will WCBS move to?


----------



## ADTech

DennisHPC said:


> Which channel will WCBS move to?


36. http://www.nab.org/repacking/clearinghouse.asp


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Trip,

Why is WHYY-TV Wilmington (Philadelphia) moving from RF12 to RF13 while WNET Newark (New York) is moving from RF13 to RF12?
         
Couldn't each PBS affiliate have remained where they are now?


----------



## Trip in VA

To prevent interference. There were a handful of stations that accepted money to move from UHF to high-VHF. To make them fit, it was necessary to reshuffle a number of high-VHF stations going right up the east coast from Florida to Canada.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Trip in VA said:


> To prevent interference. There were a handful of stations that accepted money to move from UHF to high-VHF. To make them fit, it was necessary to reshuffle a number of high-VHF stations going right up the east coast from Florida to Canada.
> 
> - Trip


Presuming the NYC Metropolitan Television Alliance will continue to use a combiner antenna for the VHF-Hi stations as they presently do, is there any concern about post-repacking interference between stations WPIX (RF11) and WNET (RF12)? As things currently exist, WPIX sometimes presents a reception challenge to even the most knowledgeable and patient OTA viewer....


----------



## Trip in VA

Shouldn't be. Plenty of markets have adjacent channels.

- Trip


----------



## reddice

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Presuming the NYC Metropolitan Television Alliance will continue to use a combiner antenna for the VHF-Hi stations as they presently do, is there any concern about post-repacking interference between stations WPIX (RF11) and WNET (RF12)? As things currently exist, WPIX sometimes presents a reception challenge to even the most knowledgeable and patient OTA viewer....


I agree WPIX is so frustrating. Why did WPIX not move to UHF and that useless WWOR repeat cop network move to VHF RF-11.


----------



## DennisHPC

*Another Repacking Question*

When the NYC stations move to their new channel assignments, will they continue to broadcast at the same ERP? Or, will their broadcast power change?


----------



## Trip in VA

The power varies with frequency, so stations that move down in channel will have slightly less power, while those moving up in channel will have slightly more.

In any event, they'll have an opportunity to request more power at a later date.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

DennisHPC said:


> When the NYC stations move to their new channel assignments, will they continue to broadcast at the same ERP? Or, will their broadcast power change?


They may also have moved from the Empire State Building by then and that too can play a role.


----------



## MeatChicken

LenL said:


> They may also have moved from the Empire State Building by then and that too can play a role.


 So what is actually happening with that ... it seems after a couple of years, still only WNET & NBC's WNBC/NJU have announced/applied for the move, & they have yet to move ....


----------



## LenL

MeatChicken said:


> So what is actually happening with that ... it seems after a couple of years, still only WNET & NBC's WNBC/NJU have announced/applied for the move, & they have yet to move ....


Hard to say what is going on with the schedule move to 1WTC other than costs and planning when to do it given the ATSC 3.0 rollout coming down the road and the repack just about here.

Others can chime in.


----------



## LenL

MeatChicken said:


> So what is actually happening with that ... it seems after a couple of years, still only WNET & NBC's WNBC/NJU have announced/applied for the move, & they have yet to move ....


Some info here:https://www.thebroadcastbridge.com/content/entry/8291/future-of-nyc-broadcast-tv-moving-to-1-wtc


----------



## LATV

Just saw that WPXN-TV is also moving to the World Trade Center.


----------



## MeatChicken

"_Durst announced that broadcast transmission tests* would commence May 8 with WNJU, WNBC, WCBS and WNET*, at the NAB Show last month"_
... was at the bottom of the article:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/00...roadcast-ops-at-one-world-trade-center/281008


----------



## reddice

LATV said:


> Just saw that WPXN-TV is also moving to the World Trade Center.


Maybe I will be finally able to pick it up. I can't never get that station with any indoor or outdoor antenna.


----------



## LenL

Trip or anyone. I read the article and it never explained what is meant by "TEST BROADCASTING". Supposed to begin May 8.

Would that be something any of us OTA viewers would see evidence of?


----------



## Trip in VA

Might be overnight testing. I'm assuming my autoscanner in Fair Lawn would catch it.

- Trip


----------



## stillonacrt

*repack and ATSC 3.0*

Haven't been to the NY-OTA forum in a while - this repack and ATSC 3.0 rollout discussion is above my pay grade, so can you answer a couple of basic questions.

In a couple of years RF channels will be shuffled around - got it. Does this mean more compression/"lower res"/less information reaching my OTA TV? (From the last couple of pages on this thread it looks like most of the moves are down the spectrum - which to me means less information can be carried; or two moved stations will be sharing one RF channel - which to me means less information per sub-channel.)

In a couple of years ATSC will be supplanted by ATSC 3.0 - got it. So, does this mean new tuners (and maybe government 4KTV tuner coupons like DTV in 2009)? With ATSC 3.0, think I've seen the phrase "IP based" - does this mean a receiving TV will need to be "smart" with an internet connection (which of course defeats the idea of OTA) to, I don't know, say, validate permission for viewing, etc.?

Thanks.


----------



## mets18

WNJU is expected to begin over-the-air nighttime transmission testing from One World Trade Center in downtown Manhattan, next week.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/104216/wnju-to-kick-off-1-wtc-ota-transmission


----------



## DrDon

Posts edited.

As a courtesy to mobile users on expensive data plans, we ask that you include SOME sort of description as to what a link links TO. Could. be a headline.. anything other than an unexplained dry link. While the link often contains that information, the forum software often truncates it so the entire link doesn't always appear.

Thanks.


----------



## MeatChicken

stillonacrt said:


> Haven't been to the NY-OTA forum in a while - this repack and ATSC 3.0 rollout discussion is above my pay grade, so can you answer a couple of basic questions.
> 
> In a couple of years RF channels will be shuffled around - got it. Does this mean more compression/"lower res"/less information reaching my OTA TV? (From the last couple of pages on this thread it looks like most of the moves are down the spectrum - which to me means less information can be carried; or two moved stations will be sharing one RF channel - which to me means less information per sub-channel.)
> 
> In a couple of years ATSC will be supplanted by ATSC 3.0 - got it. So, does this mean new tuners (and maybe government 4KTV tuner coupons like DTV in 2009)? With ATSC 3.0, think I've seen the phrase "IP based" - does this mean a receiving TV will need to be "smart" with an internet connection (which of course defeats the idea of OTA) to, I don't know, say, validate permission for viewing, etc.?
> 
> Thanks.


 I'm sure someone will chime in with more info, but here's some broad-stroke basics:
the bandwdith of the existing channels is not changing, or getting smaller, so, just as today, the same "amount of data" can be sent on RF ch 7 as can be sent on RF channel 50, or whatever since they are just as "wide" ,( their location on the RF Spectrum is irrelevant, VHF RF 7 is not in any way a "lower res" channel than UHF RF48..) 
... ATSC 3.0 should allow for higher resolutions (algorithms can "cram more stuff into the channel's bandwidth"), , just as MPEG 4 can be sent at a lower data stream rate than MPEG 2, without sacrificing picture quality ... 
Yes, once any broadcaster starts sending ATSC 3.0 OTA, you will need equipment than can receive it ....


----------



## stillonacrt

> the bandwdith of the existing channels is not...getting smaller...they are just as "wide"...


Thanks. Guess I had always assumed that modulating a 60ish MHz carrier (like WJLP RF 3) would carry less info than a 650ish MHz carrier (like WNYW RF 44), but can see that the actual bandwidth may be a whole different thing. But if a single RF channel is shared (WNBC/WNJU mentioned above) can I sill presume something has to give to "fit"?


----------



## DrDon

stillonacrt said:


> But if a single RF channel is shared (WNBC/WNJU mentioned above) can I sill presume something has to give to "fit"?


 Yep. Luckily, statistical-multiplexing encoders have come a long way in ten years. Engineers still refer to it as "70 pounds of video in a 10-pound sack." There's roughly 18Mbit/s to work with, so today's multiplexers can assign more of that pipe to the more demanding programming on the fly. It's customizable, so a station can choose to "sacrifice" PQ on, say, a couple of 480i subchannels when there's fast movement on the main 1080i channel. 

I don't think there's been definitive word on what all they're going to cram on WNJU, but if nothing changes, you'd have..

WNBC 1080i
WNJU 1080i
Cozi 480i
TeleXidos 480i​
All sharing that 18Mbit/s pipe. You have to assume WNBC's going to have the latest-greatest encoder. So, we'll see how well that works, especially during sports. The handy part is that NBC owns both stations, so throttling 'NJU/Telemundo down to 16:9 480i is always an option. 

Where this becomes an issue is for the ATSC 3.0 rollout. Without a secondary frequency, stations will have to channel-share, putting the entire programming set for both stations on two transmitters.. one for 3.0 and one running legacy 1.0. All that video isn't a problem for ATSC 3.0. But adding WNBC/NJU's pretty-maxed-out sack of video to that of another broadcaster on an ATSC 1.0 signal would be an effort, to say the least. Sure, they could cut the subchannels, but those are revenue streams. It's unlikely they'd do that.


----------



## MeatChicken

stillonacrt said:


> Thanks. Guess I had always assumed that modulating a 60ish MHz carrier (like WJLP RF 3) would carry less info than a 650ish MHz carrier (like WNYW RF 44), but can see that the actual bandwidth may be a whole different thing....." "


 Yes, that_ would_ actually be the case, if , for example, the 60Mhz channel was only 2Mhz "wide", say from 61-63Mhz, vs if a 650Mhz channel was, say 6 Mhz "wide" 651-657Mhz .. However, since all the channels are the same "width", they can carry the same information..
It seems to be a common misconception ... I've seen in cellular forums where some people assumed new 650Mhz LTE 4g channel data speeds would be inherently "slower" than 1900Mhz LTE channels ... Not realizing that if the carrier has a 20x20Mhz block of 650, it will be able to do better speeds than if they have a 10x10Mhz "chunk of 1900 ...
At modern data type transmissions, the "width" of Mhz chuck determines how much data can be broadcast from that channel ..


----------



## stillonacrt

Thank you. Very informative about both subjects. Think that's about all I needed to understand at this point in time. (But guess I should consider selling off my extra ATSC 1.0 DTV set-top boxes while there is still a market for them…)


----------



## mets18

Would it be possible to broadcast in the more efficient mp4 manner using atsc 1.0 to make more room before the switch to atsc 3.0?


----------



## DrDon

mets18 said:


> Would it be possible to broadcast in the more efficient mp4 manner using atsc 1.0 to make more room before the switch to atsc 3.0?


 Do you mean MPEG-4? Nope. No current ATSC 1.0 receiver can process it.


----------



## veedon

MeatChicken said:


> It seems to be a common misconception ... I've seen in cellular forums where some people assumed new 650Mhz LTE 4g channel data speeds would be inherently "slower" than 1900Mhz LTE channels


Well, everybody knows that a radio station at 89 on the FM dial carries much less information than one at 107.


----------



## reddice

veedon said:


> Well, everybody knows that a radio station at 89 on the FM dial carries much less information than one at 107.


Is that why all stations from 88.1 to 91.9 are all non commercial in the US? They are the only stations worth listen to on FM that are not loaded with commercials and have eclectic music playlists.


----------



## criggs

Did something happen on Thursday, May 25th? Up until that point, for about seven months, I had worked out a compromise position for my antenna where I was getting decent reception for my Big Four, Channel 2, Channel 4, Channel 7 and Channel 13.

But, starting on the evening of the 25th, I've been unable to get a good compromise with any of those stations. If I get 2 good 4 is terrible, and if I get 4 good 2 is terrible. And 13, which has NEVER presented a reception challenge before, can't win for losing, and Channel 7 is a total impossibility for me, it seems. No, I haven't moved, no, a new building hasn't gone up next to me, no, I haven't moved my furniture, etc. etc. All I know is that I've had to rely on my streaming service, PS Vue, for EVERYTHING, even though I usually treat that as a backup. What's going on? Anyone know?


----------



## LenL

Criggs,

I have had that sort of thing happen to me too in the past. I could never really get to the bottom of it. I would have great reception and then all of a sudden things would go crazy.

All I can say is that at my location I have not had any of those issues the past year.

I suspect if you check signal strength and signal quality you can see if it is either one or the other or both that is the issue. I would suspect signal quality.


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> I suspect if you check signal strength and signal quality you can see if it is either one or the other or both that is the issue. I would suspect signal quality.


Actually signal quality is always the basis on which I've tried to position the antenna. I tune to one of the stations, turn on the signal quality monitor, and then position the antenna until I get 100, and then check the other channels to see whether they're also at 100 signal quality now. Normally the process takes about ten to twenty minutes. Last night it took me FOUR HOURS.

This morning, in response to your message, I just checked it again to see if there were any changes happened over night. I'm back to square one; there is exactly one station, Channel 7, that is at 100/100. Channel 2 is at 100/0, Channel 4 is at 100/94 (and it's been my experience that any signal quality less than 100 means instability and pixelation on an intermittent basis), and Channel 13 is at 94/100. Now obviously a signal strength at 94 is not a real problem, but still, I'm used to having 100/100 across the board on all four channels. 

So, clearly, I'm chasing my tail, and what I'm doing is clearly not working.

I'm thinking of switching to a different antenna (Channel Master's antenna goes for $10).

If that doesn't work, I would go for one of those of those LTE filters for $25 which they also sell.

If that doesn't work, in ascending order of price, based on an antenna survey that was done at C-Net at https://www.cnet.com/news/the-cord-cutters-guide-to-the-best-indoor-antennas/ , I figured I would then just go up the chain of those antennas, hoping for the best. 

I really don't understand why I'm suddenly not able to do squat with OTA. My OTA DVR has effectively been turned into a brick. Not good.


----------



## LenL

Criggs,

I feel your pain. It can be very frustrating to have good reception and then for some unknown reason lose it. I have gone through this scenario many times and have been stymied trying to fix it. So far over the past 2 years I have been able to keep good reception. Keeping my fingers crossed! I made many tweaks and I think they have paid off.


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> I have gone through this scenario many times and have been stymied trying to fix it...I made many tweaks and I think they have paid off.


What sort of tweaks?

For what it's worth, for the first time ever, I've completely given up and didn't even try looking at my recordings last night. I watched everything through my backup streaming service, PlayStation Vue, because I didn't want the hassle of checking my OTA recordings, finding out they were no good, and switching to the backup Vue recording instead.

Going forward, I'm trying the purchase route, and I'm just going to work my way up the price ladder, starting with the $10 Channel Master Antenna, then their $25 LTE filter, then the $39 Antennas Direct Clearstream Eclipse unamplified, then the $45 RCA Slivr Without Amp, then the $59 Channel Master Smartenna.

If none of those work, I guess I'll have to switch to a different OTA DVR, probably the Tablo, although I hate degrading OTA HD with streaming, one of the reasons I originally rejected the Tablo. But I guess I won't have a choice.

Unless one of your tweaks works for me.


----------



## LenL

At one point I was using a channel master pre amp with a cm 4228 antenna for uhf and vhf.

I eventually switched to a dedicated VHF antenna and now use the cm 4228 for only UHF.

I also found a distribution amp worked better for me than the preamp.


----------



## 2VW

WNJU is now transmitting from 1WTC. Expectation is to continue transmitting from there.


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> At one point I was using a channel master pre amp with a cm 4228 antenna for uhf and vhf. I eventually switched to a dedicated VHF antenna and now use the cm 4228 for only UHF. I also found a distribution amp worked better for me than the preamp.


So differentiating from my VHF setup from my UHF setup seems to be part of it. The other part of it, at least for UHF, is some sort of amp, whether a preamp or a distribution amp. 

In my case, my signal strength is 100 and then some, since I'm smack dab in the middle of New York City. The consensus, when I had minor problems (nothing like I'm having now) in the past, was that I was being plagued my multipath problems. And most of the feedback instructed me that multipath problems are not solved by amplification.

On the other hand, approaching my UHF reception problems separately from my VHF reception problems appears to be a possibly productive path. So, for starters, can you tell me a little about the dedicated VHF antenna you picked? Thanks.


----------



## dvdchance

2VW said:


> WNJU is now transmitting from 1WTC. Expectation is to continue transmitting from there.


Nice. Just checked and here in Central NJ, Middlesex County it is now my strongest signal. Any other stations soon to be broadcasting from there?


----------



## 2VW

dvdchance said:


> Nice. Just checked and here in Central NJ, Middlesex County it is now my strongest signal. Any other stations soon to be broadcasting from there?


Sorry but I do not have any useful information on other stations.


----------



## LenL

Criggs,

Since you are in the middle of NY city and apparently use indoor antennas my outdoor antenna setup would not work for you.


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> Criggs,
> 
> Since you are in the middle of NY city and apparently use indoor antennas my outdoor antenna setup would not work for you.


Understood. Well, thanks anyway for the description. Next step is the Channel Master Flatenna, which is supposed to be here in a few days. Not very optimistic, but we'll see.


----------



## LenL

*Wnju*



2VW said:


> WNJU is now transmitting from 1WTC. Expectation is to continue transmitting from there.


Just checked and without making any antenna adjustment which I will need to do when all the moves are made.....my reception improved from signal quality which went from 88 to 100 and strength which went from 52 to 82.


----------



## reddice

2VW said:


> WNJU is now transmitting from 1WTC. Expectation is to continue transmitting from there.


About time it only took what about 16 years first 7 years to build it included? I wonder how long it took for the ESB channels to move to the original towers of 1WTC back in the 70's/.


----------



## reddice

reddice said:


> I can't even get WNJU so losing WNBC for more wasted cell bandwidth I am ticked. Just auction off 500 mhz for the overpaid cell companies in a few years and get rid of traditional FM radio for more internet of things junk. Then make the OTA stations cable/satellite/IPTV subscription only and move the FM stations online only. I see this going to happen in the next 10 years.


I am quoting my own post. I though WNJU was channel 58 in NJ WNJB which I can't get. I see that WNJU is actually channel 47 which I can easily get so I feel better now.


----------



## 2VW

LenL said:


> Just checked and without making any antenna adjustment which I will need to do when all the moves are made.....my reception improved from signal quality which went from 88 to 100 and strength which went from 52 to 82.


You may not see any further improvement from repositioning the antenna. Being 30 miles West with air mileage between old and new transmitters under 4 miles at your angle. 

The major lobe beamwidth of most consumer grade television antenna(s) is not narrow enough to require adjustment.

Of course it's also possible that like many internet forum posters, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Looking at Trip's Fairlawn reception graphs for WNJU shows less raw signal strength with only a slight reduction in SNR. This indicates the new transmitter outperforms the old in terms of signal quality by a significant margin. It is the SNR that counts. 

FCC database shows WNJU with an STA to operate on a higher antenna than the final plan with less transmitter power. The next move should increase signals closer to 1WTC. In other words, this is not the final iteration and there are more gains to be had close in.


----------



## LenL

Yes good advice 2VW. I was not planning to move the antenna just yet. I think waiting for the broadcast repack, ATSC 3.0 and the move of everyone to 1WTC is going to happen before I touch antenna location.


----------



## reddice

Does WNJU still have there backup antenna on the ESB? After 9/11 TV and radio stations need to have a backup antenna.


----------



## KEVINL71

Is the signal from One World Trade Center just Telemundo channel 47 or does it include sister station NBC channel 4?


----------



## 2VW

KEVINL71 said:


> Is the signal from One World Trade Center just Telemundo channel 47 or does it include sister station NBC channel 4?


Not yet. Eventually it will.


----------



## reddice

2VW said:


> Not yet. Eventually it will.


When will the switch occur?



> FCC database shows WNJU with an STA to operate on a higher antenna than the final plan with less transmitter power. The next move should increase signals closer to 1WTC. In other words, this is not the final iteration and there are more gains to be had close in.


I hope so because the signal breaks up a bit not as bad as WPIX or WNET but when WNJU was on the ESB it was stronger even though the ESB is about 5 miles away but 1WTC I can see from my roof only about 1.5 miles away. Closer but weaker.


----------



## MeatChicken

reddice said:


> When will the switch occur?


According to a recent article, the claim is that all stations that have already 'committed' to WTC should be up & running by end of year, ( WCBS, WNET, WNBC WPXN ...) ... We will see ...


----------



## MDM315

MeatChicken said:


> According to a recent article, the claim is that all stations that have already 'committed' to WTC should be up & running by end of year, ( WCBS, WNET, WNBC WPXN ...) ... We will see ...


This, I hope is good news for me. I am in Orange County about 60 mile NW of NYC. I have an outside fringe antenna and I get 62 channels (sub channels included). For the life of me I cannot get WNBC or COZI-TV at all. I even get WLIW, but no WNBC. WNJU is strong here, as is WJLP.
Anyone else outside of NYC having this problem?

Mike 315


----------



## n2ubp

MDM315 said:


> This, I hope is good news for me. I am in Orange County about 60 mile NW of NYC.
> 
> Mike 315


I am in Middletown, OC. WABC is strong but I think reflections take it out from time to time. Can't receive WNYW and WNET is iffy unless the leaves are off the trees. 

If WTC based broadcasts are what they say they are it should improve reception in my area.


----------



## ALP

MeatChicken said:


> According to a recent article, the claim is that all stations that have already 'committed' to WTC should be up & running by end of year, ( WCBS, WNET, WNBC WPXN ...) ... We will see ...


I suspect this is bad new for me. I am ~30 miles due north of the ESB. With my current antenna I have very good reception. At a minimum when they move I expect I will have to find better antenna. At worst it will mean no more OTA.


----------



## LenL

Hi all you guys in Orange county (I have family in Florida NY) I feel for you but we all have to be concerned not just about the move to 1WTC but the FCC Broadcast repack and also ATSC 3.0 and its impact on broadcasters and those of us OTA! The next 3 years plus will be loaded with broadcast reception concerns!


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> Hi all you guys in Orange county (I have family in Florida NY) I feel for you but we all have to be concerned not just about the move to 1WTC but the FCC Broadcast repack and also ATSC 3.0 and its impact on broadcasters and those of us OTA! The next 3 years plus will be loaded with broadcast reception concerns!


Len, What is the ATSC 3.0 concern for OTA?


----------



## LenL

Alp,

If you haven't been to the ATSC 3.0 forum I suggest you pay it a visit and all the concerns are there. The big ones are none of our current OTA equipment can receive ATSC 3.0 broadcasting. Also the broadcasters will have a transition period where they will broadcast both ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 and there is no way to know what the ATSC 1.0 broadcasts will be in terms of quality of service and picture compared to what we get today. Their emphasis will probably be on ATSC 3.0.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdtv-technical/1995418-atsc-3-0-a-8.html

We will need converter boxes or dongles to pick up ATSC broadcasting so it can be used by today's devices.

Anyway if you haven't been to the forum for ATSC 3.0 you should go. A lot of it is very technical but some of the reading is easy to follow and the implications are laid out.

We are still a few years away but in a blink of an eye it will be time to really prepare for it.


----------



## dstoffa

KEVINL71 said:


> Is the signal from One World Trade Center just Telemundo channel 47 or does it include sister station NBC channel 4?





2VW said:


> Not yet. Eventually it will.


WNBC-DT sold their license in the auction. It is expected that NBC programming will move to Telemundo's (WNJU's) frequency. Ownership stated that the Telemundo (WNJU) signal is the "better" signal.


----------



## criggs

2VW said:


> WNJU is now transmitting from 1WTC. Expectation is to continue transmitting from there.


In that case, things do not look good for me when WNBC Channel 4 moves to Telemundo's neck of the woods. I just checked my reception on Channel 47, and my signal strength is only around 40. Not good.


----------



## ALP

criggs said:


> In that case, things do not look good for me when WNBC Channel 4 moves to Telemundo's neck of the woods. I just checked my reception on Channel 47, and my signal strength is only around 40. Not good.


Criggs, Where are you located? I just tried Channel 47 and I get great reception.


----------



## criggs

ALP said:


> Criggs, Where are you located? I just tried Channel 47 and I get great reception.


Midtown East Side of Manhattan, eastern exposure, 27th floor.


----------



## ALP

criggs said:


> Midtown East Side of Manhattan, eastern exposure, 27th floor.


I feel like such an idiot. I live ~30 miles due north of the ESB and have no real problems with reception from the ESB and apparently from WTC either. I always assume that reception is just a matter of signal strength and distance to the transmitter. It never occurred to me that someone living in Manhattan could have worse reception due to all the tall buildings.


----------



## criggs

ALP said:


> I feel like such an idiot. I live ~30 miles due north of the ESB and have no real problems with reception from the ESB and apparently from WTC either. I always assume that reception is just a matter of signal strength and distance to the transmitter. It never occurred to me that someone living in Manhattan could have worse reception due to all the tall buildings.


In my case, all of my stations have superhuman strength, usually 100%. As it's been explained to me, that's actually part of the problem; the signal is so strong that it's bouncing all over the place. As I recall, the term is multipath, literally meaning that the signal is coming from so many different places that the tuner is unable to get a coherent picture. It doesn't help, apparently, that the DVR+ that I use has a notoriously bad tuner that is particularly prone to this problem.

Well over half of my stations, however, have signal quality that's below 100, which is why I'm getting these problems.


----------



## ALP

criggs said:


> In my case, all of my stations have superhuman strength, usually 100%. As it's been explained to me, that's actually part of the problem; the signal is so strong that it's bouncing all over the place. As I recall, the term is multipath, literally meaning that the signal is coming from so many different places that the tuner is unable to get a coherent picture. It doesn't help, apparently, that the DVR+ that I use has a notoriously bad tuner that is particularly prone to this problem.
> 
> Well over half of my stations, however, have signal quality that's below 100, which is why I'm getting these problems.


Criggs, You do not need a strong antenna, but you do need a very directional antenna so it only latches on to one of those bounces. Because of where I live I know about big. strong (and directional) roof top antennas, but I do not know much about indoor antennas. But you cannot be the only dude in NYC facing this problem. It would help if your tuner had better multi-path rejection, but my guess is there is an indoor antenna that can help. What kind of antenna do you use right now?


----------



## criggs

ALP said:


> Criggs, You do not need a strong antenna, but you do need a very directional antenna so it only latches on to one of those bounces. Because of where I live I know about big. strong (and directional) roof top antennas, but I do not know much about indoor antennas. But you cannot be the only dude in NYC facing this problem. It would help if your tuner had better multi-path rejection, but my guess is there is an indoor antenna that can help. What kind of antenna do you use right now?


I've gone through three. I started out with a flat RCA antenna, then switched to a Mohu Leaf, which improved matters somewhat, added a second Leaf thinking that having two simultaneously might improve things a little, which did happen but the improvement did not last, then tried the $10 Channel Master Flatenna, which did not help at all.

If you look at the most comprehensive indoor antenna review out there, which is at https://www.cnet.com/news/the-cord-cutters-guide-to-the-best-indoor-antennas/ , you will see that he conducted his tests in Manhattan using an OTA DVR (he may even have used the DVR+, I'm not sure). In other words, his conditions, supposedly, at least in Manhattan (he tested in two locations) were, supposedly, very close to mine. Nevertheless, his results were markedly superior to mine.

Unfortunately there's no such thing, apparently, as a directional indoor antenna. Instead, most of these antennas are multi-directional, as opposed to omni-directional. The theory is that by retaining directionality, but offering more than one direction, they can offer the best of both worlds. For all I know, they may be right; perhaps a multi-directional is better than a unidirectional in my situation (certainly directionality is not a config that seems to be available in indoor antennas). But better or not, it is certainly not giving me satisfactory performance.

The next thing I thought I might try is Channel Master's LTE filter. They claim that some of the problems big-city dwellers have with HD reception is interference from cell phones. And they claim that an LTE filter will get rid of some of that. At this point, the antennas that I still haven't tried which are listed at https://www.cnet.com/news/the-cord-cutters-guide-to-the-best-indoor-antennas/ are all more expensive than the filter, so I'm thinking that the filter might be my next step; it costs $25.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

> there's no such thing, apparently, as a directional indoor antenna.


Making an antenna directional requires physical size for the necessary elements to focus and direct the signals. A very directional antenna, therefore, is going to be very large as that's how the physics work out. A very directional antenna of such size is unlikely to fit well in a Manhattan apartment. You cannot break or bend the laws of physics, you can only look for ways to cheat a bit and hope it's enough.

The most directional antenna in the smallest package I know of is the ClearStream 4 for UHF, it's also among the most expensive. You can add the simple dipole for some VHF reception but it is about as non-directional as anything else your linked review covers. Because of the underlying physics, a VHF antenna of comparable directionality as the C4 exhibits on UHF would require a new antenna roughly 3-5 times the overall size of the original C4. Now you can see why indoor antennas are both small and tend to perform poorly relative to their larger outdoor brethren.

You're likely wasting money on the LTE filter if you buy it. Your problem likely is multi-path which degrades signal quality and multi-path is simply a fact of life in urban areas such as yours. Always has been.


----------



## criggs

ProjectSHO89 said:


> The most directional antenna in the smallest package I know of is the ClearStream 4 for UHF, it's also among the most expensive...a VHF antenna of comparable directionality as the C4 exhibits on UHF would require a new antenna roughly 3-5 times the overall size of the original C4...You're likely wasting money on the LTE filter if you buy it.


What I hear you saying is that there is probably not much I can do about my current situation. All the viable solutions you list have drawbacks that you adduce regarding size and expense that pretty much eliminate them for indoor use.


----------



## ALP

You may have to take the bull by the horns, meaning you need a tuner with strong mutipath rejection. Obviously finding such a tuner in a DVR may not be simple and it will cost more than an antenna. I am not sure if there is any advice that can be found here on the forum?


----------



## valvashon

Looking for the vacant RF channels in NYC- a friend is going there for his wedding and needs an open channel for his wireless mics. I've turned up RF 22 as maybe an open channel, with only an LPTV CP out there and a station out in Plainview. Is this correct? Any other vacant RF frequencies?


Thanks-

Val


----------



## criggs

ALP said:


> You may have to take the bull by the horns, meaning you need a tuner with strong mutipath rejection. Obviously finding such a tuner in a DVR may not be simple and it will cost more than an antenna. I am not sure if there is any advice that can be found here on the forum?


I guess that would mean buying a new OTA DVR. I want to buy one that doesn't have subscription fees, can record at least two programs at a time, has a loadable and updateable schedule grid, records onto an external HD drive that can be detached for easy viewing and editing on a computer and where I can take full advantage of the higher quality of OTA HD by connecting the output to an HDMI port on my TV rather than pick up the signal through transcoded streaming that degrades the quality. As far as I know, the only OTA DVR that does all of that is the Channel Master DVR+, but I'm obviously very interested if there are other such devices!


----------



## ALP

criggs said:


> I guess that would mean buying a new OTA DVR. I want to buy one that doesn't have subscription fees, can record at least two programs at a time, has a loadable and updateable schedule grid, records onto an external HD drive that can be detached for easy viewing and editing on a computer and where I can take full advantage of the higher quality of OTA HD by connecting the output to an HDMI port on my TV rather than pick up the signal through transcoded streaming that degrades the quality. As far as I know, the only OTA DVR that does all of that is the Channel Master DVR+, but I'm obviously very interested if there are other such devices!


Wow, that is asking a lot. I use Magnavox DVR's and their ones do two channels an HD recording, but are not computer friendly. Here is a link to their latest ones.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hd...-line-inputs-editing-rec-modes-usb-3-0-a.html


----------



## SalemK

*WPIX and WNET*

Last month, reception from WPIX and WNET became real iffy: unreceivable much of the time. Before then, both channels came in ok, and the other channels are still ok. Is anyone else having this problem? Are the stations doing something different?

I live in Southern Monmouth with a CM4228 antenna and CM7777 preamp.

Thanks,
SalemK


----------



## ALP

SalemK said:


> Last month, reception from WPIX and WNET became real iffy: unreceivable much of the time. Before then, both channels came in ok, and the other channels are still ok. Is anyone else having this problem? Are the stations doing something different?
> 
> I live in Southern Monmouth with a CM4228 antenna and CM7777 preamp.
> 
> Thanks,
> SalemK


I just used the signal strength display on my last of the line Panasonic Plasma Screen TV. It says I am receiving both channels at 100% signal. All that means is I am getting a good signal at my location which is ~30 miles north of the ESB. I have a large Winegard yagi type antenna and a drop amp that doubles the antenna signal.


----------



## 2VW

SalemK said:


> Last month, reception from WPIX and WNET became real iffy: unreceivable much of the time. Before then, both channels came in ok, and the other channels are still ok. Is anyone else having this problem? Are the stations doing something different?
> 
> I live in Southern Monmouth with a CM4228 antenna and CM7777 preamp.
> 
> Thanks,
> SalemK


It may be a good idea to look for sources of RF noise as they can destroy a VHF DTV decode.

I know a person who lost channel 11 when LED lights from a nearby restaurant were turned on.

I've personally lost channel 11 when using a Water Pik dental device. It has a DC motor and brushes which make tiny sparks.


----------



## trailblazer

SalemK said:


> Last month, reception from WPIX and WNET became real iffy: unreceivable much of the time. Before then, both channels came in ok, and the other channels are still ok. Is anyone else having this problem? Are the stations doing something different?
> 
> I live in Southern Monmouth with a CM4228 antenna and CM7777 preamp.
> 
> Thanks,
> SalemK


I am in Jackson and have my antenna pointed towards Philly stations which I find easier to pick up than NY. The exception may be channel 6 (lo-vhf) and channel 12 (hi-vhf). The latter two can be iffy, Other than those two, all other stations come in fine. I am hoping that once the NY station switch over to the new tower in lower Manhattan, the NY stations will be easier to pick up, especially 7, 11, 13.


----------



## LenL

SalemK said:


> Last month, reception from WPIX and WNET became real iffy: unreceivable much of the time. Before then, both channels came in ok, and the other channels are still ok. Is anyone else having this problem? Are the stations doing something different?
> 
> I live in Southern Monmouth with a CM4228 antenna and CM7777 preamp.
> 
> Thanks,
> SalemK


I have basically the same setup as you do. Although I now use a separate VHF antenna because I found the CM4228 is not so good at VHF reception. I also removed the CM7777 preamp and use a distro amp now. I did make modifications to the CM4288 which you can see here in this link which might help your reception, protect the elements from rust and make it look better! I found my antennas ( I have 2 CM4228) were getting corroded. The changes I made helped UHF reception which as I mentioned is the only band I use it for but I would think it might help VHF too.

I think even with my separate VHF antenna reception is not as good now as it was before the weather changed and the leaves got on the trees. VHF reception seems to be subject to more issues from all sorts of things like FM and LED interference. Appliances in the home. My computers are on the second floor with monitors facing the outside wall where my antenna is and I lose VHF reception when I am on my computer. A while back a neighbor put in LED walkway lights about 30 feet from my antenna and that shot my VHF reception. He was nice enough to work with me in getting to Malibu to fix the problem with new lights that reduced the interference.

If you follow this link you will see the change I made to the CM4228.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/186...ld-cm-4228a-4248a-3023-hardware-hacks-20.html


----------



## reddice

WNET and WPIX were never really reliable. WABC use to be rock solid but now it breaks up just as bad. I can't believe that WJLP is so strong it is a low VHF station and it is the most reliable even during heavy rain.


----------



## rothe

SalemK said:


> Last month, reception from WPIX and WNET became real iffy: unreceivable much of the time. Before then, both channels came in ok, and the other channels are still ok. Is anyone else having this problem? Are the stations doing something different?
> 
> I live in Southern Monmouth with a CM4228 antenna and CM7777 preamp.
> 
> Thanks,
> SalemK


I'm in Ocean Grove. There's a Winegard HD7698p up on my roof, and I've never been able to pull in WNET reliably. WPIX has always been rock solid, as it still is.

In my case, I'm convinced that the weakness with my WNET reception is from a localized noise source or multipath. I actually have a spectrum analyzer that lets me see such impacts upon the signal, more so than would be measurable with a simple "signal strength" or "signal quality" numerical rating. There's clearly a very little bit of multipath interference in the signal chart, and that combined with a slightly weak signal to begin with is just too much for any of my tuners to overcome.

We may see a few decibels more signal after the transmitter move to the Freedom Tower, so "stay tuned."


----------



## hancox

ProjectSHO89 said:


> Making an antenna directional requires physical size for the necessary elements to focus and direct the signals. A very directional antenna, therefore, is going to be very large as that's how the physics work out. A very directional antenna of such size is unlikely to fit well in a Manhattan apartment. You cannot break or bend the laws of physics, you can only look for ways to cheat a bit and hope it's enough.
> 
> The most directional antenna in the smallest package I know of is the ClearStream 4 for UHF, it's also among the most expensive. You can add the simple dipole for some VHF reception but it is about as non-directional as anything else your linked review covers. Because of the underlying physics, a VHF antenna of comparable directionality as the C4 exhibits on UHF would require a new antenna roughly 3-5 times the overall size of the original C4. Now you can see why indoor antennas are both small and tend to perform poorly relative to their larger outdoor brethren.
> 
> You're likely wasting money on the LTE filter if you buy it. Your problem likely is multi-path which degrades signal quality and multi-path is simply a fact of life in urban areas such as yours. Always has been.



Annoying - what happened to the silver sensor of yore? Great directional indoor antenna!

Terk seems to have something somewhat similar, but probably overpriced. https://www.amazon.com/Terk-HDTVAZ-...9943015&sr=1-1&keywords=silver+sensor+antenna


----------



## EF9500

Anyone on Long island having issues with nbc? Used to be Rock solid, now tons of breakups. Can't wait for the move to wtc. Telemundo which is broadcasting from there now, is my highest signal. 85!!! And I am 60 miles out in Stony Brook.


----------



## latke

*Bad News- WPIX (Ch. 11) and WXTV (Univison) staying at Empire State Building*

Hi all! New to OTA life as I just cut the cord!

Unfortunately, just read that WPIX and WXTV signed new leases at the ESB. WPIX particularly sucks as it's VHF and so difficult to get in apartment areas of NYC like mine in Forest Hills, NY. WXTV, 41, I get perfectly.
Unfortunately, I can't link to the article, as this is my first post, but google insideradio.com for the article Empire State Building, Locked In Tower Fee Suit, Signs FMs.

I purchased a Winegard Freevision and was hoping to get perfect reception as my parents do with crappy rabbit ears in Fresh Meadows NY. However, even though I'm a few miles closer to the city, I'm in Forest Hills in an apartment building on the 5th floor and even with the antenna put in an Eastern facing window, I can't get any VHF station. One night I added some aluminum foil to the antenna and was able to pick up WABC for a minute while holding it, but other than that, WABC, WPIX and WNET don't come in.

I've also tried plain ole rabbit ears just to see if I'd get the VHF stations, to no avail.

Any other suggestions to try to get these VHF stations? I miss my Antenna TV! (the station LOL) I'm open to trying other antennas, but I think I'll just be wasting time, as the Winegard is doing a great job of getting me virtually all the other UHF stations that matter, with 47 being my strongest as it's from WTC. The big test is whether WNET will come in when they switch, as they're staying on VHF and moving down a channel to 12.


----------



## latke

latke said:


> Hi all! New to OTA life as I just cut the cord!
> 
> Unfortunately, just read that WPIX and WXTV signed new leases at the ESB. WPIX particularly sucks as it's VHF and so difficult to get in apartment areas of NYC like mine in Forest Hills, NY. WXTV, 41, I get perfectly.
> Unfortunately, I can't link to the article, as this is my first post, but google insideradio.com for the article Empire State Building, Locked In Tower Fee Suit, Signs FMs.
> 
> I purchased a Winegard Freevision and was hoping to get perfect reception as my parents do with crappy rabbit ears in Fresh Meadows NY. However, even though I'm a few miles closer to the city, I'm in Forest Hills in an apartment building on the 5th floor and even with the antenna put in an Eastern facing window, I can't get any VHF station. One night I added some aluminum foil to the antenna and was able to pick up WABC for a minute while holding it, but other than that, WABC, WPIX and WNET don't come in.
> 
> I've also tried plain ole rabbit ears just to see if I'd get the VHF stations, to no avail.
> 
> Any other suggestions to try to get these VHF stations? I miss my Antenna TV! (the station LOL) I'm open to trying other antennas, but I think I'll just be wasting time, as the Winegard is doing a great job of getting me virtually all the other UHF stations that matter, with 47 being my strongest as it's from WTC. The big test is whether WNET will come in when they switch, as they're staying on VHF and moving down a channel to 12.


I must be a moron- can't figure out how to edit my post, but I mistakenly said easterly regarding my antenna position, when I meant westerly.


----------



## Trip in VA

Here's the link. http://www.insideradio.com/free/emp...cle_5ccfd07a-775a-11e7-a1a6-f37d8022c1e0.html

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> Here's the link. http://www.insideradio.com/free/emp...cle_5ccfd07a-775a-11e7-a1a6-f37d8022c1e0.html
> 
> - Trip


What the article did not say is how long the renewed lease was for. With the changes coming for the repack and ATSC 3.0 it might make sense for some to stay at the ESB for another year or two.

The article did not go into any of that but maybe somewhere there may be more info on why these stations decided to stay at the ESB.


----------



## EF9500

LenL said:


> What the article did not say is how long the renewed lease was for. With the changes coming for the repack and ATSC 3.0 it might make sense for some to stay at the ESB for another year or two.
> 
> The article did not go into any of that but maybe somewhere there may be more info on why these stations decided to stay at the ESB.


$$$$$$$$?????


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> What the article did not say is how long the renewed lease was for. With the changes coming for the repack and ATSC 3.0 it might make sense for some to stay at the ESB for another year or two.
> 
> The article did not go into any of that but maybe somewhere there may be more info on why these stations decided to stay at the ESB.


It would not be reasonable to expect things such as lease terms (length, price, etc) to be disclosed publicly.


----------



## Emili1

Thanks for the review.


----------



## EF9500

MeatChicken said:


> According to a recent article, the claim is that all stations that have already 'committed' to WTC should be up & running by end of year, ( WCBS, WNET, WNBC WPXN ...) ... We will see ...


Anyone have any new info on when these changes will be completed? Does it have to be by end of year? Or is that just an estimated time? Reason I ask, as I just cut the cord for good. 47 which is broadcasting from 1 wtc is my most reliable signal. Cbs is flaky. I actually get cbsld off the back of my antenna, but it has multipath issues.


----------



## reddice

WPIX is my most watched OTA station and it's a lost cause. I am tired of a perfect picture then minutes later a pixelated box mess of nothing. I cancelled my Tivo because of it. Now that WPIX is staying on the ESB I just give up on OTA. I don't even have the roof antenna hooked up to the TV no more. My Dish Network feed is more reliable even in bad weather than WPIX OTA.


----------



## ALP

EF9500 said:


> Anyone have any new info on when these changes will be completed? Does it have to be by end of year? Or is that just an estimated time? Reason I ask, as I just cut the cord for good. 47 which is broadcasting from 1 wtc is my most reliable signal. Cbs is flaky. I actually get cbsld off the back of my antenna, but it has multipath issues.


I too am nervous about the move of all stations to WTC. Even though I can get 47 with no problems I also getting good reception of all the major broadcast signals (CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, WPIX and Thirteen) except when rains really hard anywhere between my location and the ESB. I guess I am thinking its better to have the devil that you know rather than the devil that you don't know. I guess if I start losing channels I will know they have moved.


----------



## LenL

ALP'

I guess you missed the post by Latke #18683 from a few days back . Not all stations are moving to WTC: WPIX and WXTV are staying at the ESB!


----------



## EF9500

ALP said:


> I too am nervous about the move of all stations to WTC. Even though I can get 47 with no problems I also getting good reception of all the major broadcast signals (CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, WPIX and Thirteen) except when rains really hard anywhere between my location and the ESB. I guess I am thinking its better to have the devil that you know rather than the devil that you don't know. I guess if I start losing channels I will know they have moved.


Definitely true. Just because 47 comes in strong and doesn't mean the others will. UHF is a strange thing. I am assuming most will benefit, but I'm sure there will be some losers.


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> ALP'
> 
> I guess you missed the post by Latke #18683 from a few days back . Not all stations are moving to WTC: WPIX and WXTV are staying at the ESB!


Len, My bad, I forgot that WPIX is staying on the ESB. Since, I do not speak a word of Spanish I never watch WXTV.


----------



## LenL

ALP said:


> Len, My bad, I forgot that WPIX is staying on the ESB. Since, I do not speak a word of Spanish I never watch WXTV.


Actually 41.3 Bounce and 41.4 Grit are English language. So don't blow off WXTV so quickly.

I'm trying to learn Spanish as a second language which is good for my aging brain. So I do tune in to the Spanish stations once in awhile to try to learn some words with my trusty English-Spanish dictionary by my side.


----------



## latke

*WNYW and WWOR also moving in 2018!*

And more good news- Channels 5 and 9 will move to 1WTC next year. Still a new member here, so can't link properly yet...

ad week dot com/ tvspy/fox-stations-will-broadcast-from-one-world-trade/193434

The remaining channel that we haven't heard from is WABC, a VHF channel, as all other local channels have committed in the short term to either 1WTC (WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WNET, WPXN, WNJU) or Empire State Building (boo) (WPIX, WXTV).


----------



## SnellKrell

Fox has announced that both WNYW and WWOR will move to 1WTC and begin transmissions early 2018.


----------



## ALP

latke said:


> And more good news- Channels 5 and 9 will move to 1WTC next year. Still a new member here, so can't link properly yet...
> 
> ad week dot com/ tvspy/fox-stations-will-broadcast-from-one-world-trade/193434
> 
> The remaining channel that we haven't heard from is WABC, a VHF channel, as all other local channels have committed in the short term to either 1WTC (WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WNET, WPXN, WNJU) or Empire State Building (boo) (WPIX, WXTV).


Why boo to the ESB? Some people may get better reception from the ESB than from 1WTC.


----------



## LenL

No guarantees that 1WTC will broadcast and give better reception than the ESB. That is an unproven assumption. In addition when they go with ATSC 3.0 who knows how strong the ATSC 1.0 signal will be broadcast? Perhaps someone can tell us that the powers that be require the broadcasting in ATSC 1.0 has to be maintained at the same level it was before ATSC 3.0 is introduced?

There is a minefield of unknowns coming to our local broadcast reception!


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> No guarantees that 1WTC will broadcast and give better reception than the ESB. That is an unproven assumption. In addition when they go with ATSC 3.0 who knows how strong the ATSC 1.0 signal will be broadcast? Perhaps someone can tell us that the powers that be require the broadcasting in ATSC 1.0 has to be maintained at the same level it was before ATSC 3.0 is introduced?
> 
> There is a minefield of unknowns coming to our local broadcast reception!


Len, I am getting old and my memory is not what it use to be, but I thought I read somewhere that there will converter boxes like when they did the analog switch off. If the broadcasters have to put ATSC 3.0 on their 0.1 subchannel and ATSC 1.0 on their 0.2 subchannel where are they going to find room for their "oldies" programming that they currently put on their 0.2 subchannel. It would be nice if someone who actually knew how the roll out of ATCS 3.0 was going to work could explain it to the public.


----------



## LenL

ALP,

I share your concern. There is an ATSC 3.0 forum as part of AVSforum that you can easily find and it will answer your questions.

For now it appears that all of our local NY broadcasters will need to keep ATSC 1.0 programming broadcast when they start ATSC 3.0. So all of our current reception equipment should be fine for a number of years.
There may very well be some sort of converter box down the road but I don't think that box will be needed until ATSC 1.0 is shut down. That is not going to be something to worry about for a number of years. Possibly something poster Trip might be able to speculate on. My guess is 5 plus years from now.

They may make the programming so great with the ATSC 3.0 broadcasts that some folks might want a converter box sooner to see the programming. We shall see.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> ALP,
> 
> I share your concern. There is an ATSC 3.0 forum as part of AVSforum that you can easily find and it will answer your questions.
> 
> For now it appears that all of our local NY broadcasters will need to keep ATSC 1.0 programming broadcast when they start ATSC 3.0. So all of our current reception equipment should be fine for a number of years.
> There may very well be some sort of converter box down the road but I don't think that box will be needed until ATSC 1.0 is shut down. That is not going to be something to worry about for a number of years. Possibly something poster Trip might be able to speculate on. My guess is 5 plus years from now.
> 
> They may make the programming so great with the ATSC 3.0 broadcasts that some folks might want a converter box sooner to see the programming. We shall see.


The programming will be a simulcast - the same stuff!

The bells and whistles will be technical - especially reception on mobile devices.

That's why stations are interested and are will to invest. They hope that ATSC 3.0
will be OTA's savior.

Also, remember that ATSC 3.0 is strictly voluntary on behalf of stations. But, if a 
station elects to use this system it can't give up its ATSC 1.0 transmission.

As I understand things - technically, the two systems can't be transmitted together -
no sub-channel piggybacking possible.


----------



## latke

ALP said:


> Why boo to the ESB? Some people may get better reception from the ESB than from 1WTC.


Boo because the transmitter power of WPIX on the ESB is horribly low. Couple that with it being on VHF and many can't get that channel. When WNET moves to WTC transmission we shall see if more are able to capture their signal.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> The programming will be a simulcast - the same stuff!
> 
> The bells and whistles will be technical - especially reception on mobile devices.
> 
> That's why stations are interested and are will to invest. They hope that ATSC 3.0
> will be OTA's savior.
> 
> Also, remember that ATSC 3.0 is strictly voluntary on behalf of stations. But, if a
> station elects to use this system it can't give up its ATSC 1.0 transmission.
> 
> As I understand things - technically, the two systems can't be transmitted together -
> no sub-channel piggybacking possible.


Wow! Does this imply that if a broadcaster decides to do ATSC 3.0 they have to have an addition frequency allocation to transmit the 3.0 content? Where will all of these frequency allocation come from?


----------



## ProjectSHO89

> If the broadcasters have to put ATSC 3.0 on their 0.1 subchannel and ATSC 1.0 on their 0.2 subchannel


That is impossible.



> Wow! Does this imply that if a broadcaster decides to do ATSC 3.0 they have to have an addition frequency allocation to transmit the 3.0 content? Where will all of these frequency allocation come from?


Suggest you actually go to the ATSC 3.0 thread and read the proposals proffered by the FCC.


----------



## ALP

ProjectSHO89 said:


> That is impossible.
> 
> Suggest you actually go to the ATSC 3.0 thread and read the proposals proffered by the FCC.


OK, So I did what you suggested and as you may have expected I now have more questions. As a retired physicist looking at the ATSC 3.0 proposal I can tell that a good amount of engineering work went into the proposal and that some of the elements are already in existence and some will have to be prototyped and developed. Then there is the whole simulcast proposal by the FCC for bundling several ATSC 1.0 broadcast on one broadcast frequency. What I need most right now is to understand how all the government and industry pieces fit together. It appears that the ATSC (I assume this is a government agency) is responsible for finding and finalizing a 3.0 broadcast system. Is the ATSC part of the FCC or what? Does the ATSC have in house labs where they can design, build prototypes and test or does it have to vendor all of that stuff out to industry? What resources does the FCC have for working out the simulcast questions? Where can I find an overview of how all of the pieces relate to one another and who does what? Good R&D takes time, money and talented people. Who supplies the funding, who supplies the talent and who decides the timetable?


----------



## MeatChicken

latke said:


> And more good news- Channels 5 and 9 will move to 1WTC next year. Still a new member here, so can't link properly yet...
> 
> ad week dot com/ tvspy/fox-stations-will-broadcast-from-one-world-trade/193434
> 
> The remaining channel that we haven't heard from is WABC, a VHF channel, as all other local channels have committed in the short term to either 1WTC (WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WNET, WPXN, WNJU) or Empire State Building (boo) (WPIX, WXTV).


 There's also WJLP ( RF 3 ) transmitting from Midtown, I don't think they have mentioned moving ....


----------



## LenL

ALP said:


> OK, So I did what you suggested and as you may have expected I now have more questions. As a retired physicist looking at the ATSC 3.0 proposal I can tell that a good amount of engineering work went into the proposal and that some of the elements are already in existence and some will have to be prototyped and developed. Then there is the whole simulcast proposal by the FCC for bundling several ATSC 1.0 broadcast on one broadcast frequency. What I need most right now is to understand how all the government and industry pieces fit together. It appears that the ATSC (I assume this is a government agency) is responsible for finding and finalizing a 3.0 broadcast system. Is the ATSC part of the FCC or what? Does the ATSC have in house labs where they can design, build prototypes and test or does it have to vendor all of that stuff out to industry? What resources does the FCC have for working out the simulcast questions? Where can I find an overview of how all of the pieces relate to one another and who does what? Good R&D takes time, money and talented people. Who supplies the funding, who supplies the talent and who decides the timetable?


About ATSC
The Advanced Television Systems Committee, Inc., is an international, non-profit organization developing voluntary standards for digital television. The ATSC member organizations represent the broadcast, broadcast equipment, motion picture, consumer electronics, computer, cable, satellite, and semiconductor industries.

https://www.atsc.org/


----------



## EF9500

ALP said:


> Why boo to the ESB? Some people may get better reception from the ESB than from 1WTC.


This is true. But I think for most, it will be better from 1wtc. I am 60 miles out in Stony Brook long island, and my strongest station is now the only one broadcasting from 1 wtc. I have 85% strength and 28snr on my TiVo. That's MUCH better than anything coming from esb.


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> This is true. But I think for most, it will be better from 1wtc. I am 60 miles out in Stony Brook long island, and my strongest station is now the only one broadcasting from 1 wtc. I have 85% strength and 28snr on my TiVo. That's MUCH better than anything coming from esb.


Transmissions from 1WTC will not necessarily be better for viewers than from ESB.

It depends upon where the viewer is located and the location of the station's antenna
on the 1WTC facility.

I live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and my signal strength for WNJU actually
became lower when it moved to 1WTC.

I live too close to the station's antenna - those living in the suburbs will probably have
the exact opposite experience.

Location, location, location!!!!!!


----------



## d3193

SnellKrell said:


> Transmissions from 1WTC will not necessarily be better for viewers than from ESB.
> 
> It depends upon where the viewer is located and the location of the station's antenna
> on the 1WTC facility.
> 
> I live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and my signal strength for WNJU actually
> became lower when it moved to 1WTC.
> 
> I live too close to the station's antenna - those living in the suburbs will probably have
> the exact opposite experience.
> 
> Location, location, location!!!!!!


I live a few blocks from ESB, and can pick up almost all stations with an indoor antenna. I
am expecting to lose all of them when they move to 1WTC. Ch47 has already disappeared for me.


----------



## EF9500

Any news on when nbc will officially move to wtc? Wondering what's taking so long. Their sister station has been there over a month now.


----------



## dstoffa

EF9500 said:


> Any news on when nbc will officially move to wtc? Wondering what's taking so long. Their sister station has been there over a month now.


I can't imagine WNBC-DT proper moving. They sold their license in the spectrum auction. They will move NBC programming over to the Telemundo frequency at 1 WTC (probably with the calls, too). When? Who knows... But I imagine they are not going to build a transmitter for WNBC-DT at WTC and then have to turn it off...


----------



## EF9500

dstoffa said:


> I can't imagine WNBC-DT proper moving. They sold their license in the spectrum auction. They will move NBC programming over to the Telemundo frequency at 1 WTC (probably with the calls, too). When? Who knows... But I imagine they are not going to build a transmitter for WNBC-DT at WTC and then have to turn it off...


We already know that. Was just wondering when they will transmit from wtc. Thanks


----------



## dreamingned

My 1st Post and I'm trying to do it as per AVSforum guidelines*. I could not understand how to begin a new thread but I'm a Newbie so have patience w/ me 

TVfool Link: 
I am tweaking a rooftop antenna with a long run of coax (>90') plus 2-3 splitters. I want to install a mast mounted amp and looking at SHN-24 by Aspen. This will allow me to add/combine a dish on same coax run in the future, correct?

I have a good antenna mount properly earth-grounded
ned, n2eye 
* Unable to post TVfool & SHN24 Links as this is my 1st Post.


----------



## LenL

Where do you live? 

What antenna are you using?

SHN-24 is an amplified splitter.

What mast mounted preamp are you looking to install with it? 

Some people would not recommend using a preamp and distro amp together. May introduce more noise and reduce signal quality.


----------



## dreamingned

LenL said:


> Where do you live?
> 
> What antenna are you using?
> 
> SHN-24 is an amplified splitter.
> 
> What mast mounted preamp are you looking to install with it?
> 
> Some people would not recommend using a preamp and distro amp together. May introduce more noise and reduce signal quality.


Thank you, I will use only a winegard LNA-200. I misunderstood the purpose of the distribution amp.


----------



## dreamingned

LenL said:


> Where do you live?
> 
> What antenna are you using?
> 
> SHN-24 is an amplified splitter.
> 
> What mast mounted preamp are you looking to install with it?
> 
> Some people would not recommend using a preamp and distro amp together. May introduce more noise and reduce signal quality.


_______
Thank you, I will use only a winegard LNA-200. I misunderstood the purpose of the distribution amp. I live at the bottom of a sheer 50' rock cliff so my 70' antenna is only 20' over the top of the cliff despite being on top of a 5 story Bldg.


----------



## dreamingned

LenL said:


> Where do you live?
> 
> What antenna are you using?
> 
> SHN-24 is an amplified splitter.
> 
> What mast mounted preamp are you looking to install with it?
> 
> Some people would not recommend using a preamp and distro amp together. May introduce more noise and reduce signal quality.


_______
Thank you, I will use only a winegard LNA-200. I misunderstood the purpose of the distribution amp. I live at the bottom of a sheer 50' rock cliff so my 70' antenna is only 20' over the top of the cliff despite being on top of a 5 story Bldg. I'm in the South Bronx.


----------



## ALP

dreamingned said:


> _______
> Thank you, I will use only a winegard LNA-200. I misunderstood the purpose of the distribution amp. I live at the bottom of a sheer 50' rock cliff so my 70' antenna is only 20' over the top of the cliff despite being on top of a 5 story Bldg. I'm in the South Bronx.


I realize I am probably misunderstanding what you are posting, but are you telling us you have a 70' mast for you antenna?


----------



## foxycat

I'll swap my WPIX (ch 11) and my WNYW (ch 5) for a WLIW from anyone on Long Island.  I'll throw in 
WWORD(ch 9) as a freebie.

I'm just checking in after a while away. Will reception from the WTC be better than from ESB?


----------



## d3193

> Will reception from the WTC be better than from ESB?



For some people, yes. For some people, no.


----------



## dreamingned

ALP said:


> I realize I am probably misunderstanding what you are posting, but are you telling us you have a 70' mast for you antenna?


No. I live in 5 story walk-up. Bldg is 65' tall and my antenna is about 10' off the roof. It also holds my ham radio antenna 5BTV with two 67' dipole/radials.
I find conflicting input voltage reported for the Winegard LNA-200. If the later models are power from a USB powered injector it's only 4vdc but the older ones are 15-18vdc. Any way to distinguish between them ?


----------



## ProjectSHO89

> I find conflicting input voltage reported for the Winegard LNA-200. If the later models are power from a USB powered injector it's only 4vdc but the older ones are 15-18vdc. Any way to distinguish between them ?


The LNA200 has ALWAYS used a USB power supply, it has never used anything else since it came out a few years ago (mid 2013?).


----------



## dreamingned

ProjectSHO89 said:


> The LNA200 has ALWAYS used a USB power supply, it has never used anything else since it came out a few years ago (mid 2013?).


I just found the reviews on TVfool (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13530) that show the RCA TVPRAMP1R performs better than the LNA200. Mr. Higgins' review was thorough and convinced me to go with the RCA instead. I hope he is a real person and not fictitious shill working for RCA.
Thank you for your replies gentlemen. I learned a lot about TV antennas from the many Posted write-ups here. Nice website. 
neil


----------



## garence

Has anyone here ever run into a situation where some channel signals became weak all of the sudden, for no apparent reason?

This just happened with me, affecting WWOR-TV (channel 9.1) and H&I Heroes & Icons (channel 9.4). Yesterday, my Sony TV tuner (1080p) was unable to pick up anything from those stations. Signal strength 0. However, my DVR tuner could pick up the stations (it is unfortunately limited to 480p). Most other stations were fine on my TV. I swapped antennas and no difference. However, I then tried a 3rd antenna small and convenient enough to operate by hand and move around. Fiddling with the dial on it I was able to get 9.1 and 9.4, but at about 50% weaker and only from a very specific position.

So my conclusion was that some very weird problem happened with my TV tuner and since it's an older TV, it's not fixable.

But then the next day (today), I discovered the stations were back!

I don't watch a lot of OTA TV, but I'm wondering if periodically stations may momentarily significantly reduce the signal for a while.


----------



## Trip in VA

garence said:


> I don't watch a lot of OTA TV, but I'm wondering if periodically stations may momentarily significantly reduce the signal for a while.


If a station has an equipment problem, they might reduce power or move to a backup facility for a short time. And, indeed, my auto-scanner indicates something was up with the WWOR signal recently and is now back to normal.

https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WWOR-TV

- Trip


----------



## garence

Trip in VA said:


> If a station has an equipment problem, they might reduce power or move to a backup facility for a short time. And, indeed, my auto-scanner indicates something was up with the WWOR signal recently and is now back to normal.
> 
> https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WWOR-TV
> 
> - Trip


Thank you very much, Trip. I didn't know about RabbitEars.info -- terrific resource!

I do realize weather can be a factor in signal strength, but I hadn't seen anything dramatic. I'm happy to know it was likely their transmitter.


I've browsed the site a bit... and have a question. What menu pathway do you follow in order to get the signal graphs for any station?


----------



## EF9500

Speaking of wwor
https://www.tmonews.com/2017/10/t-mobile-fox-wwor-speed-up-600mhz-spectrum-repack-new-york-city/amp/

Tmo pushing to get their 600mhz up.


----------



## reddice

Good. WWOR is a waste anyway.


----------



## LenL

FYI

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/plex-launches-live-tv-streaming-135718988.html


----------



## ALP

Is anyone having extremely intermittent signal strength problems with CBS? In the last few days channel 2.1 has been dropping out even though the weather has been basically good (heavy rain will cause some channels to drop out for me). I also notice slight intermittent reception on WPIX (Channel 11) but the main problem is CBS.


----------



## Jay Stone

ALP said:


> Is anyone having extremely intermittent signal strength problems with CBS? In the last few days channel 2.1 has been dropping out even though the weather has been basically good (heavy rain will cause some channels to drop out for me). I also notice slight intermittent reception on WPIX (Channel 11) but the main problem is CBS.




Well I get cbs on Long Island from the antenna out here and yesterday i couldn't get a signal at all in the daytime. Something must have been up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ALP

Can anyone suggest how I (or we) can find out what is going on with CBS?:


----------



## LenL

Alp,

You best bet is to send a private message to TRIP if he doesn't see your comments and respond on this forum.


----------



## Trip in VA

I didn't realize the message was directed at me. The auto-scanner doesn't say anything's up with WCBS, but then, it only scans long enough to log the signal strength and then moves on, so tiny drops are unlikely to be caught.

- Trip


----------



## ALP

Trip in VA said:


> I didn't realize the message was directed at me. The auto-scanner doesn't say anything's up with WCBS, but then, it only scans long enough to log the signal strength and then moves on, so tiny drops are unlikely to be caught.
> 
> - Trip


Trip and Len, Thanks for the input. Whatever is going on at CBS is very erratic. Yesterday it was almost unwatchable, this morning it is crystal clear.


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> I didn't realize the message was directed at me. The auto-scanner doesn't say anything's up with WCBS, but then, it only scans long enough to log the signal strength and then moves on, so tiny drops are unlikely to be caught.
> 
> - Trip


Actually it was not directed at you but I know you are monitoring the NY broadcasters from your aunts and you have the equipment to let us know if there is an issue impacting us. Well maybe not all the time but you have helped us with blips that have occurred now and then.


----------



## LenL

ALP said:


> Can anyone suggest how I (or we) can find out what is going on with CBS?:


I typically watch a lot of CBS but mostly recorded on my DVR+ so if there is a problem I may not see it for a week or more later!


----------



## LenL

I have a spare used CM4228 outdoor antenna that I am willing to part with dirt cheap. It does a great job for NY reception. Anyone interested just send me a private message. Do not post a reply on this forum.


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## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> Actually it was not directed at you but I know you are monitoring the NY broadcasters from your aunts and you have the equipment to let us know if there is an issue impacting us. Well maybe not all the time but you have helped us with blips that have occurred now and then.


Here's the link, so anyone who doesn't already have it can see it: https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=10343612&tno=1

Clicking the callsign will show the signal graph.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> Here's the link, so anyone who doesn't already have it can see it: https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=10343612&tno=1
> 
> Clicking the callsign will show the signal graph.
> 
> - Trip


I have to ask. Curr SS is for current signal strength?

What is Curr MER? I could not figure that one out and why is was so different from Curr SS.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes (re: curr SS).

MER = Modulation Error Ratio. It's another term for SNR. In many places, you'll find it called "signal quality."

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> Here's the link, so anyone who doesn't already have it can see it: https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=10343612&tno=1
> 
> Clicking the callsign will show the signal graph.
> 
> - Trip


Trip, I have been monitoring your site and noticed you have bad reception for 63.1 WMBC which I get out by my location 100% both signal strength and quality.

However when I checked your site today you do not show any results for 63.1. I just checked and it is on the air 100%.


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> Trip, I have been monitoring your site and noticed you have bad reception for 63.1 WMBC which I get out by my location 100% both signal strength and quality.
> 
> However when I checked your site today you do not show any results for 63.1. I just checked and it is on the air 100%.


Yeah, it's a very old pair of rabbit ears sitting in the same closet as the computer and tuner. I couldn't manage to get all the signals to come in properly at the same time, so I prioritized getting WPIX and WNET at the same time, which was itself a juggling act. That, in turn, made WMBC, WNYE, WASA-LD, and WNYJ significantly worse. I figured people would find the network stations more useful to have information on. (It doesn't help that the location in question is on the wrong side of the house.)

There's actually an antenna in the attic, and a drop to that bedroom, but somewhere between the splitter in the attic and the wall port, there's either a cut cable or something disconnected, because no signal makes it to that particular drop. It's kind of disappointing. (I haven't been up there to see if it's just unplugged from the splitter or something simple like that, but I did pull the wall plate off and everything's fine in the box there.) 

Next time I'm there, I'm planning to bring a different antenna to see if it improves things.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip,

Thanks for the explanation and very fast response!

Your site is great and very helpful to us in the NY reception area! I expect with the repack coming, move to 1WTC and ATSC 3.0 it will be used by more of us on the AVS forum and even people not on the forum to monitor what is going on in OTA land!


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> Yeah, it's a very old pair of rabbit ears sitting in the same closet as the computer and tuner. I couldn't manage to get all the signals to come in properly at the same time, so I prioritized getting WPIX and WNET at the same time, which was itself a juggling act. That, in turn, made WMBC, WNYE, WASA-LD, and *WNYJ *significantly worse. I figured people would find the network stations more useful to have information on. (It doesn't help that the location in question is on the wrong side of the house.)
> 
> - Trip


WNYJ is going dark this week


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## Aero 1

nyctveng said:


> WNYJ is going dark this week


source? i see the website is down. i wonder why, no money?


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## Trip in VA

Because they were bought by the FCC in the incentive auction and the deadline for stations that are not channel sharing to go off the air is 10/25.

- Trip


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## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> source? i see the website is down. i wonder why, no money?


If you go to MHz networks which was broadcast on 66.2 channel you will see that there business model has changed and they are not able to provide their foreign language programming OTA for cost reasons. It was not paying the bills.

Now you can get MHz programming via the internet with a paid subscription. I did watch a lot of the programming of Italian, French etc. detective, mysteries etc. with English subtitles. Too bad it is gone.


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## markfromBrooklyn

MHZ Worldview is still broadcasting foreign content, including some of their European television dramas as well as news on channel 66.2 I just tuned it in and watched a piece of Corp and Anam. They have moved a much wider selection of programs to their associated streaming service MHZ Choice which I highly recommend. It is not free, of course. Reception from my location in Brooklyn NY requires a good antenna, and is variable depending on the weather and perhaps other factors.


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## Trip in VA

WNYJ should be gone by this time tomorrow.

- Trip


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## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> WNYJ should be gone by this time tomorrow.
> 
> - Trip


Trip any other changes coming between today and 1/1/2018 that you can tell us about?


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## Trip in VA

None that I'm aware of, except that WMAQ (NBC) in Chicago has started simulcasting WSNS (Telemundo). I will not be surprised to see WNJU do the same thing here.

- Trip


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## markfromBrooklyn

Trip in VA said:


> WNYJ should be gone by this time tomorrow.
> 
> - Trip


You appear to be right. There is no signal on 66.2 this morning., 10/27/2017. I am sorry to see them go. I have long enjoyed their programming as well as the newer MHZ Choice streaming service. Thank you for the information.


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> Trip any other changes coming between today and 1/1/2018 that you can tell us about?



WFUT added Justice on 68.5, WFTY added Justice on 67.1 and moved Unimas to 67.2


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## Jay Stone

NBC showed up on my tuner this morning as 4.3 WNBC (no DT or anything after the call letters)
Is this new?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr Tony

you must be picking up WNJU which simulcasts NBC on 4-3. No Cozi on 4-4?

https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wnju#station


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## Jay Stone

unclehonkey said:


> you must be picking up WNJU which simulcasts NBC on 4-3. No Cozi on 4-4?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wnju#station




Yes 4.4 also. Never saw this before and thought it was new. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Trip in VA

It has only happened in the past few days.

- Trip


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## EF9500

So the nbc thing could be the transition to WTC??


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## MeatChicken

Is this " new" 4.3 coming off WNJU's RF Freq or WNBC's? 1080i?


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## EF9500

MeatChicken said:


> Is this " new" 4.3 coming off WNJU's RF Freq or WNBC's? 1080i?


It's coming from wtc. It's 1080i, and I now get 90% signal from 63 miles out on Long island!!! There still is no program info, so I guess we are in the transition.


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## Jay Stone

EF9500 said:


> It's coming from wtc. It's 1080i, and I now get 90% signal from 63 miles out on Long island!!! There still is no program info, so I guess we are in the transition.




I'm on Long Island too, and can rarely get 4.1 so thought it was weird when I saw 4.3 early this morning. Coming in at about 66% now. Need to see tomorrow if I still get it during the daytime hours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> It has only happened in the past few days.
> 
> - Trip


Please update your reception site for this change: https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php...0343612&tno=1&sort=vch&hours=1&tzone=ET&unit=


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> Please update your reception site for this change: https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php...0343612&tno=1&sort=vch&hours=1&tzone=ET&unit=


Update what? Subchannels are not shown on that page.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> Update what? Subchannels are not shown on that page.
> 
> - Trip


I stand corrected. I was just thinking NBC since it is a big network needed to be shown when the repack is done but I guess it won't.

Sorry.


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> I stand corrected. I was just thinking NBC since it is a big network needed to be shown when the repack is done but I guess it won't.
> 
> Sorry.


No sweat. I was mostly concerned that I was overlooking something obvious. 

- Trip


----------



## veedon

LenL said:


> I stand corrected. I was just thinking NBC since it is a big network needed to be shown when the repack is done but I guess it won't.
> 
> Sorry.


What exactly is changing? The RF28 allocation for the NYC market is being discontinued, right? So 
the WNBC programming will be on WNJU's RF35, but broadcasting from WTC, not from NJ. Will that single transmitter cover the entire NYC metropolitan area? And when the change is complete, won't NBC-Telemundo want to apply for a change of call letters so that the station will be officially WNBC? (They could call it WNBT. Those calls have some historical significance.)


----------



## Jay Stone

I am still pulling 4.3 and 4.4 in during the day, at about 50% strength, so I am very happy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KEVINL71

UHF channel 35? Will that affect Connecticut? WVIT-TV (NBC) channel 30 of New Britain transmits on UHF channel 35 from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT (very close to US Route 6 in this stretch).


----------



## veedon

KEVINL71 said:


> UHF channel 35? Will that affect Connecticut? WVIT-TV (NBC) channel 30 of New Britain transmits on UHF channel 35 from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT (very close to US Route 6 in this stretch).


I think RF 35 is the allocation for WNJU after the repack happens. According to rabbitears.info, WVIT will move to RF 31 in the repack. I guess WNJU is still on RF 36 until the repack. At least, that's what I gather from the info.


----------



## KEVINL71

THAT would be interesting! The present occupant of UHF channel 31 here is WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford, Like with WVIT-TV, they also transmit from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington.

Up until now, there have been issues with CBS New York and CBS Hartford (WFSB-TV channel 3) both using UHF channel 33. I wonder if any of that will get resolved?


----------



## Mr Tony

KEVINL71 said:


> Up until now, there have been issues with CBS New York and CBS Hartford (WFSB-TV channel 3) both using UHF channel 33. I wonder if any of that will get resolved?


nope. Both moving to RF36
WCBS
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wcbs#station

WFSB
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wfsb#station

I know Trip will clarify but it has to do with current interference issues...with the repack no new "companions" (that might cause interference) can happen but current ones can. Thats why in places like Baltimore you have WBAL NBC moving from RF11 to 12 and then WJZ CBS moving from RF13 to 11


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## veedon

No question about it. The Northeast was not settled with an eye toward avoiding RF interference.


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## Trip in VA

unclehonkey said:


> I know Trip will clarify but it has to do with current interference issues...with the repack no new "companions" (that might cause interference) can happen but current ones can. Thats why in places like Baltimore you have WBAL NBC moving from RF11 to 12 and then WJZ CBS moving from RF13 to 11


That's right. Some are broken up, and some are not. Essentially, a lot of the "intermediate" interference cases got broken up (like WLNE/WEDW/WEKW, assigned 24, 21, and 18 respectively) while the "serious" cases got left together (see WCBS/WFSB, both on 36) because they just created enough efficiency that the system couldn't solve the problem without keeping them together. The Congressional mandate was to "preserve" service and not strictly to "improve" it, though we did attempt to "improve" where it could be done as a second priority.

- Trip


----------



## trailblazer

EF9500 said:


> It's coming from wtc. It's 1080i, and I now get 90% signal from 63 miles out on Long island!!! There still is no program info, so I guess we are in the transition.


Wow. What a difference transmitting from the WTC for WNBC. I live in central NJ and I my roof antenna is facing towards Philly and I receive both WNBC and WNJU fine. Hopefully once all the stations move there, I can redirect my antenna towards NYC and receive the stations without issues. My worst station is Fox channel 5, and ION channel 31 when I point towards NYC.


----------



## MeatChicken

veedon said:


> And when the change is complete, won't NBC-Telemundo want to apply for a change of call letters so that the station will be officially WNBC?....."


 That's an interesting question if anyone has insight ...
Will they be allowed by the FCC to officially keep both " WNBC" & "WNJU " call signs on the one frequency but seperate virtual channel numbers ?
( Seems logical , what if 2 well known but otherwise unrelated in market stations combined on 1 RF channel due to an agreement .. )...


----------



## SnellKrell

MeatChicken said:


> That's an interesting question if anyone has insight ...
> Will they be allowed by the FCC to officially keep both " WNBC" & "WNJU " call signs on the one frequency but seperate virtual channel numbers ?
> ( Seems logical , what if 2 well known but otherwise unrelated in market stations combined on 1 RF channel due to an agreement .. )...


Each station will keep its own call sign and be operated as separate, independent entities.

Once the WNBC ESB facility is closed down, beside common ownership, they will only be united by transmission.


----------



## veedon

SnellKrell said:


> Each station will keep its own call sign and be operated as separate, independent entities.
> 
> Once the WNBC ESB facility is closed down, beside common ownership, they will only be united by transmission.


Yeah. That makes sense. I just have trouble getting used to the idea of a station existing without having an RF channel allocation of its own or a transmitter of its own. Historically, since the digital transition, there have been lots of cases where a station has had its own RF allocation but has also been carried as a subchannel on a different RF allocation to extend the reach of its OTA broadcasting. But the idea of a station with no RF allocation of its own is something new.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Has anyone else here noticed a _very_ subtle perceptible bitrate difference between WNBC 4-1 and WNBC 4-3?


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Has anyone else here noticed a _very_ subtle perceptible bitrate difference between WNBC 4-1 and WNBC 4-3?


It would be more surprising if there weren't a difference, given that 4-1 is the only HD feed on its channel, while 4-3 is the second HD along side 47-1. The bitrates are substantially different.

Separately, is there anyone in the area who can receive WDVB-CD and might be able to tell me what it's running, as well as which WTBY subchannels are now sharing on it?

- Trip


----------



## EF9500

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Has anyone else here noticed a _very_ subtle perceptible bitrate difference between WNBC 4-1 and WNBC 4-3?


Subtle? It's a 1/3 less!!! Very noticeable pic quality. Bummer.


----------



## mets18

I would guess that when rf28 goes off the air that most of the bandwidth would be allocated to WNBC.


----------



## EF9500

mets18 said:


> I would guess that when rf28 goes off the air that most of the bandwidth would be allocated to WNBC.


I'm not so sure about that. I think telemundo is in charge now.


----------



## mets18

Telemundo and NBC are both owned by Comcast. They will allocate based on viewership.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

I'm gauging the quality with a 720p television; I realize the bitrate difference is considerably more notable on 1080i/p and 4K televisions.

Short-term: I imagine it is possible that MVPDs could be offered a fiber-feed of WNBC and WNJU, thus preserving bitrate quality OTA viewers have become accustomed to via RF 28 & RF 36 for their pay-TV subscribers which would provide a subtle incentive to existing subscribers to not "cut the cord"

Long-term: ATSC 3.0 seems the only hope to provide superior bitrate for OTA stations using less spectrum.

Trip: I wish I could help you out on your WDVB-CD Edison question, but that signal has been missing to my location for years now.


----------



## EF9500

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> I'm gauging the quality with a 720p television; I realize the bitrate difference is considerably more notable on 1080i/p and 4K televisions.
> 
> Short-term: I imagine it is possible that MVPDs could be offered a fiber-feed of WNBC and WNJU, thus preserving bitrate quality OTA viewers have become accustomed to via RF 28 & RF 36 for their pay-TV subscribers which would provide a subtle incentive to existing subscribers to not "cut the cord"
> 
> Long-term: ATSC 3.0 seems the only hope to provide superior bitrate for OTA stations using less spectrum.
> 
> Trip: I wish I could help you out on your WDVB-CD Edison question, but that signal has been missing to my location for years now.


Unfortunately, the newer generation is watching on smaller mobile devices, so I think we are headed to worse quality on OTA. Its just a sign of the times.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

EF9500 said:


> Unfortunately, the newer generation is watching on smaller mobile devices, so I think we are headed to worse quality on OTA. Its just a sign of the times.


If true, the only beneficiaries of that arrangement would be cellular providers and optometrists 

But I can't get over the big winners in the WMBQ-CD deal, namely the licensee, Prime Time Partners, LLC. As I understand the deal, they SOLD the spectrum back to the FCC for $28,313,224; DONATED the license to WNET (a tax-exempt entity); and still REMAIN ON THE AIR via WNET-DT3 Newark piggybacking on the WNET signal which nets WMBQ-CD a significantly larger percentage of the New York Metropolitan Area! And should WNET ever move its transmitter over to World Trade Center, that audience will only grow. Very strategic (or shrewd) corporate maneuvering.


----------



## SnellKrell

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> If true, the only beneficiaries of that arrangement would be cellular providers and optometrists
> 
> But I can't get over the big winners in the WMBQ-CD deal, namely the licensee, Prime Time Partners, LLC. As I understand the deal, they SOLD the spectrum back to the FCC for $28,313,224; DONATED the license to WNET (a tax-exempt entity); and still REMAIN ON THE AIR via WNET-DT3 Newark piggybacking on the WNET signal which nets WMBQ-CD a significantly larger percentage of the New York Metropolitan Area! And should WNET ever move its transmitter over to World Trade Center, that audience will only grow. Very strategic (or shrewd) corporate maneuvering.


*People shouldn't forget that the spectrum that was SOLD belonged to the public! Once again, thank you Washington for screwing us!*


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> *People shouldn't forget that the spectrum that was SOLD belonged to the public! Once again, thank you Washington for screwing us!*


Is this really true? Than we should get a discount on our cell bill.


----------



## ProjectSHO89

If the license to specturm (right to use) hadn't been sold to the wireless companies (going back all the way to the early 80s), you wouldn't even have a cell phone bill because there would be no cell phones.


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> It would be more surprising if there weren't a difference, given that 4-1 is the only HD feed on its channel, while 4-3 is the second HD along side 47-1. The bitrates are substantially different.
> 
> Separately, is there anyone in the area who can receive WDVB-CD and might be able to tell me what it's running, as well as which WTBY subchannels are now sharing on it?
> 
> - Trip


All stations except TBN are 480i SD

23-1 Country Network
23-2 Soul of the South
23-3 Son of Life
54-1 TBN HD 720p
54-2 Hillsong
54-3 Enlace
54-4 Salsa


----------



## Trip in VA

nyctveng said:


> All stations except TBN are 480i SD
> 
> 23-1 Country Network
> 23-2 Soul of the South
> 23-3 Son of Life
> 54-1 TBN HD 720p
> 54-2 Hillsong
> 54-3 Enlace
> 54-4 Salsa


Interesting. Thanks. I greatly appreciate it.

- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

SnellKrell said:


> *People shouldn't forget that the spectrum that was SOLD belonged to the public! Once again, thank you Washington for screwing us!*





EF9500 said:


> Is this really true? Than we should get a discount on our cell bill.



Big misconception. Just like none of us own the public streets, or public transportation.

* From B&C May 16, 2008 08:00 PM ET
The Public Airwaves Myth*

FCC Commissioners Michael Copps and Jonathan Adelstein, as well as citizen-group advocates, frequently proclaim that the airwaves belong to the people. Indeed, the concept of “public airwaves” is the foundation for the return to heavy-handed regulation proposed by Chairman Kevin Martin and his colleagues in the localism proceeding.

Late last month, the FCC released a revised edition of a manual entitled “The Public and Broadcasting: How to Get the Most Service from Your Local Station,” which broadcast stations are required to provide to any member of the public who requests a copy. The manual asserts, without any citation to legal authority, that station licensees are trustees of the public's airwaves.

The concept of public ownership of the airwaves is repeated over and over without a close examination as to whether the notion has any legal basis or makes any sense. As Franklin Delano Roosevelt once said, repetition does not transform a lie into the truth.

If you review the record, it is clear that Congress never intended for the public to control the airwaves. Here, for example, is Sen. Clarence Dill, one of the co-authors of the Radio Act of 1927, on the subject of ownership of the airwaves: “The government does not own the frequencies, as we call them, or the use of the frequencies. It only possesses the right to regulate the apparatus. We might declare that we own all the channels, but we do not.”

Or take the late Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas. He debunked the argument that the government can control broadcasters because their channels use airspace by comparing broadcasters to people who speak in public parks—like the airwaves, also in the “public domain.” He added, “Yet people who speak there do not come under government censorship.”

Even the Congressional Research Service, which conducted a study of the problems raised by proposals to assess fees from broadcasters for use of the spectrum, concluded that “the notion that the public or the government owns the airwaves is without precedent. We find no case that so holds. Furthermore, when enacting the Radio Act of 1927, the Congress specifically deleted a House-passed “declaration of ownership.”

But if these arguments are not persuasive, think of the utter impossibility of anyone owning the airwaves. The radio frequency spectrum cannot be seen, touched or heard. Like sunlight and the wind, it has existed since the beginning of time—long before any person was around to claim it as their own. The spectrum—actually pulses of energy at different frequencies—cannot be contained, or divided, or held in any way. So how can anyone own or control it? The very idea is preposterous.

How, then, has the government been able to regulate broadcasting? Actually, the FCC's paternalistic control of radio and television slipped in the back door as an unwanted byproduct of a regulation that is, in fact, necessary for orderly use of the electromagnetic spectrum. (Yes, even those of us who advocate a hands-off approach to FCC regulation of broadcasters agree there is a place for some government supervision.) Without the FCC's rules on who can use what part of the spectrum, chaos would reign—signals would crash into each other, and clear communication could be impossible.

The late Harvard Law School Professor Louis Jaffe hit the nail squarely when he said: “The popular cliché that the broadcaster is using the public's airwaves is a vague, indeterminate concept. I think we would have heard little of it had not the existing technology required regulation of broadcasting to avoid interference. For, in one way or another, we all use air and space. To speak of owning such resources is a solecism.”

But the FCC, created to be the traffic cop of the airwaves, has taken on the role of a morals and vice squad. In the process, the electronic media, one of the most important voices in our society today, have been deprived of a basic constitutional right to freedom of speech.

None of this denies that the spectrum does have a special character, or that broadcasters have a special responsibility to use it in a way that is beneficial to society. In any event, the public still has recourse to stop a broadcaster that is doing a poor job. For one thing, there's that dial. Every time you change the channel, you are, in effect, voting for or against a station's programming. The public can also file petitions to deny a broadcaster's license at the FCC.

But the public does not own the airwaves. The spectrum is there, whether it is used or not. Only when it is enhanced by broadcasters filling the airwaves with information and entertainment does it have any value at all to the public. With their talent, technical knowledge and financial resources, broadcasters have increased the value of the spectrum for everyone. Without a signal, supplied by your local broadcast station, the airwaves are just so much empty space.


----------



## icemannyr

EF9500 said:


> Unfortunately, the newer generation is watching on smaller mobile devices, so I think we are headed to worse quality on OTA. Its just a sign of the times.


I just hope the combo of WNBC and WNJU on the same OTA channel is not as bad for video quality as Univision's WXTV-DT.
The video quality of 41.1 Univision WXTV (1080i) has been awful since they added 41.2 UniMás WFUT (1080i) as a sub channel to WXTV.


----------



## EF9500

icemannyr said:


> I just hope the combo of WNBC and WNJU on the same OTA channel is not as bad for video quality as Univision's WXTV-DT.
> The video quality of 41.1 Univision WXTV (1080i) has been awful since they added 41.2 UniMás WFUT (1080i) as a sub channel to WXTV.


Unfortunately, I think it will suffer. There's only so much bandwidth to be shared.


----------



## reddice

Why can channel 9 and 31 share a channel instead? They are both a waste and play the same cop tv programs and both channels are only in 720p. No instead they take a well known watched station like WNBC to share with WNJU.


----------



## DrDon

reddice said:


> Why can channel 9 and 31 share a channel instead? They are both a waste and play the same cop tv programs and both channels are only in 720p. No instead they take a well known watched station like WNBC to share with WNJU.


I'm unsure who you mean by "they." NBCU had two broadcast television stations in NYC. They chose to sell off the spectrum for one of them and combine everything onto the other.

For WWOR and WPXN to share, one of them would have had to have participated in the auction and agreed to sign off. Since they're not co-owned, a sharing agreement would need to be reached between companies competing for the same viewers and ad dollars. Not impossible, but in the number-one market, improbable.

Since they're co-owned, we could very well see WWOR and WNYW share should Fox decide to dip its toe into ATSC 3.0. Ditto WCBS and WLNY.


----------



## dturturro

I’ve had the same setup for quite a while now: CM4228 and VHF only into Winegard AP-8780 Pre-amp. I haven’t really kept up with antennas as of late. What would be considered comparable or better? My TV Fool report is here:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=60edb8244b0b53


----------



## LenL

I have pretty much the same setup as you CM4228 and a VHF antenna. I found a distro amp worked better for me than a preamp. I am 30 miles to the west northwest of the broadcast towers.

Why are you thinking about changing antennas? The cm4228 is a great UHF antenna. Very highly regarded.


----------



## dturturro

LenL said:


> I have pretty much the same setup as you CM4228 and a VHF antenna. I found a distro amp worked better for me than a preamp. I am 30 miles to the west northwest of the broadcast towers.
> 
> Why are you thinking about changing antennas? The cm4228 is a great UHF antenna. Very highly regarded.


Just seeing if there's anything new out there that I may be missing. What model distribution amp do you use?


----------



## SnellKrell

dturturro said:


> Just seeing if there's anything new out there that I may be missing. What model distribution amp do you use?


I would wait until all those stations that have announced they're moving
to 1WTC have done so before considering a new antenna and associated
"stuff."


----------



## icemannyr

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Has anyone else here noticed a _very_ subtle perceptible bitrate difference between WNBC 4-1 and WNBC 4-3?


The PQ difference very noticeable for Sunday Night Football. 4-3 has much more digital compression artifacts and macroblocking compared to 4-1 which has very good PQ.

Does anyone know what changed for WNYW-DT to make the PQ for sporting events even worse?


----------



## LenL

dturturro said:


> Just seeing if there's anything new out there that I may be missing. What model distribution amp do you use?


dturturro,

The distribution amp I use is the CM3414. 

By the way I made a modification to the CM4228 that has worked great for me. Slightly better results in signal quality and strength. Plus my change protects the galvanized steel elements from the weather.

If you follow the link below you will see the changes that I made.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/186...ld-cm-4228a-4248a-3023-hardware-hacks-20.html


----------



## KEVINL71

I don't know if this is related or not, but here goes: While at my mother's home in central Connecticut today, she happened to have her TV on WNBC-TV (NBC) channel 4. (Her Frontier service carries the NYC locals in HD with no blackouts!) The on-screen ID at 11 AM said

(bottom center left) *WNBC-TV New York*
(bottom center right) *WNJU-TV Linden*

In other words, will a dual on-screen ID now be the norm?


----------



## EF9500

icemannyr said:


> The PQ difference very noticeable for Sunday Night Football. 4-3 has much more digital compression artifacts and macroblocking compared to 4-1 which has very good PQ.
> 
> Does anyone know what changed for WNYW-DT to make the PQ for sporting events even worse?


Fox5 has gotten horrendous. It's always been bad, but it's almost unwatchable lately.


----------



## speedlaw

*ABC RF 7 lower power ?*

WABC, RF 7, appears to be down on power. All my other stations are "normal", but ABC, which usually is in the low 90's, is fluctuating between 30 and 55. Only noticed when my weakest tuner (OK, a gen 1 HDTV set ) began losing lock, and one of the better tuners occasionally stutters.

I'm 40 miles north of the transmitters.

Anyone else notice a drop on RF 7 only ?


----------



## SnellKrell

speedlaw said:


> WABC, RF 7, appears to be down on power. All my other stations are "normal", but ABC, which usually is in the low 90's, is fluctuating between 30 and 55. Only noticed when my weakest tuner (OK, a gen 1 HDTV set ) began losing lock, and one of the better tuners occasionally stutters.
> 
> I'm 40 miles north of the transmitters.
> 
> Anyone else notice a drop on RF 7 only ?


According to the Rabbitears readout from Fair Lawn, NJ, everything appears to be normal today


----------



## EF9500

speedlaw said:


> WABC, RF 7, appears to be down on power. All my other stations are "normal", but ABC, which usually is in the low 90's, is fluctuating between 30 and 55. Only noticed when my weakest tuner (OK, a gen 1 HDTV set ) began losing lock, and one of the better tuners occasionally stutters.
> 
> I'm 40 miles north of the transmitters.
> 
> Anyone else notice a drop on RF 7 only ?


Get any new LED bulbs??? Ask me how I know??? Anytime certain led bulbs are turned on, I lose vhf.


----------



## LenL

My neighbors new led walkway lights killed my VHF a few years back until I worked with him to replace them!


----------



## Roger Lococco

WPIX must have upped their power, I've been able to receive it fairly strongly since last week, it was always extremely marginal or no signal before.


----------



## Aero 1

Looks like WNBc is doing the final move at the end of March. Just started seeing spots telling people to rescan or they wont get the signal anymore.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...to-Receive-NBC-New-York-Signal-460277243.html



> NBC New York is moving to a new transmitter with a much stronger signal and wider reach. If you are an over-the-air viewer who watches our station with a UHF antenna, you will need to rescan your TV channel lineups by the end of *March 2018 to keep receiving NBC New York*.


----------



## SnellKrell

Roger Lococco said:


> WPIX must have upped their power, I've been able to receive it fairly strongly since last week, it was always extremely marginal or no signal before.


Looking at the Rabbitears monitoring setup in Fair Lawn, NJ, WPIX doesn't
appear to have increased its power and I haven't seen any filing with the
FCC about that. There was an upward signal strength "blip" around noontime 
on 9/5 - but nothing more than that.


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> Looks like WNBc is doing the final move at the end of March. Just started seeing spots telling people to rescan or they wont get the signal anymore.
> 
> https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...to-Receive-NBC-New-York-Signal-460277243.html


Thanks for finding this and sharing! I looked at it and they did a very nice job of explaining and trying to help people with the rescan. They seem to be promoting a stronger signal and wider broadcast too.

We shall see how that translates into reception for us OTA folks! Hopefully for the better!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> Thanks for finding this and sharing! I looked at it and they did a very nice job of explaining and trying to help people with the rescan. They seem to be promoting a stronger signal and wider broadcast too.
> 
> We shall see how that translates into reception for us OTA folks! Hopefully for the better!


A couple of things.

First, the on air PSA mentioned nothing about March being when the transition would occur.
That information was only on the station's website. I'm sure in watching the PSA, many people
thought the change was imminent. Not very responsible, and not very good communications.

Second, concerning the new signal.

Of course, it depends on where you live.

It also depends if/when the host channel, WNJU moves from its current location on the upper
UHF antenna to the lower one. The lower one is planned to be directional unlike the current
antenna being used.

I live on the Upper Eastside and WNJU's signal strength actually went down compared to ESB.

Those living near 1WTC are supposed to receive a stronger signal if the move to the lower 
antenna takes place.

Lots of variables.


----------



## LenL

Snellkrell,

My comments were specific to the website. I think they went above and beyond to help OTA viewers! I have not yet heard any announcements on NBC so I did not comment on them.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> Snellkrell,
> 
> My comments were specific to the website. I think they went above and beyond to help OTA viewers! I have not yet heard any announcements on NBC so I did not comment on them.


I would imagine that more people have seen the on air PSAs than
have visited the WNBC website.

As a professional in television marketing, I find the PSA, although
well intended and mandated by the FCC, incredibly mishandled and
grossly premature!


----------



## nyctveng

SnellKrell said:


> A couple of things.
> 
> First, the on air PSA mentioned nothing about March being when the transition would occur.
> That information was only on the station's website. I'm sure in watching the PSA, many people
> thought the change was imminent. Not very responsible, and not very communications.
> 
> 
> Lots of variables.



If they mention March, people will put it off and/or forget. Let people think the change is imminent so they don't put it off and lose service if they forget. Stations lost a lot of viewers and had their phones jammed for days/weeks after the DTV transition. Viewers got months to years notice of the transition and did nothing til they lost free analog TV. The result was frustrated viewers, station switchboards lit on fire, lost of viewership to stations, overwhelmed staff @ Radio Shack & Best Buy, etc. So besides you not approving, how is this not responsible? This is being very proactive and can only benefit both parties for acting early.


----------



## nyctveng

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Has anyone else here noticed a _very_ subtle perceptible bitrate difference between WNBC 4-1 and WNBC 4-3?


WNBC 4-1 runs at about 16 meg. WNBC 4-3 via WNJU runs at about 8 meg. Cozi TV is about 2 meg on both 28 & 36.


----------



## nyctveng

trailblazer said:


> Wow. What a difference transmitting from the WTC for WNBC. I live in central NJ and I my roof antenna is facing towards Philly and I receive both WNBC and WNJU fine. Hopefully once all the stations move there, I can redirect my antenna towards NYC and receive the stations without issues. My worst station is Fox channel 5, and ION channel 31 when I point towards NYC.


Is ION any better now? They just moved to WTC.


----------



## EF9500

nyctveng said:


> WNBC 4-1 runs at about 16 meg. WNBC 4-3 via WNJU runs at about 8 meg. Cozi TV is about 2 meg on both 28 & 36.


I really hope nbc fixes this after the final transition. It's a terrible picture now. Bummer.


----------



## EF9500

nyctveng said:


> Is ION any better now? They just moved to WTC.


Have they really? Gotta do a rescan today, and see.


----------



## Jay Stone

During the summer I could usually receive Ion in the evening but now I don’t get it at all. I’m out on Long Island, in Centereach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EF9500

Jay Stone said:


> During the summer I could usually receive Ion in the evening but now I don’t get it at all. I’m out on Long Island, in Centereach.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Getting ion with 70% signal here in Stony Brook. It's not being transmitted from wtc. Still ESB.


----------



## nyctveng

EF9500 said:


> I really hope nbc fixes this after the final transition. It's a terrible picture now. Bummer.


I don't know if it will be "fixed" but it seems NBC is deploying VBR in their mux. The fiber feeds to cable companies still have full bandwidth and I expect that will still be the case after March.


The current WNJU-DT stream looks something like this:

4-3 WNBC HD 8 meg average (variable 5-12 meg)
47-1 WNJU HD 8 meg average (variable 5-12 meg)
4-4 Cozi 2 meg average
47-2 Exitos 2 meg average

Total ATSC bandwidth per channel is 19.39 meg. Those numbers given were averaged and rounded in case anyone wonders why it adds up to 20 meg


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> I don't know if it will be "fixed" but it seems NBC is deploying VBR in their mux. The fiber feeds to cable companies still have full bandwidth and I expect that will still be the case after March.
> 
> 
> The current WNJU-DT stream looks something like this:
> 
> 4-3 WNBC HD 8 meg average (variable 5-12 meg)
> 47-1 WNJU HD 8 meg average (variable 5-12 meg)
> 4-4 Cozi 2 meg average
> 47-2 Exitos 2 meg average
> 
> Total ATSC bandwidth per channel is 19.39 meg. Those numbers given were averaged and rounded in case anyone wonders why it adds up to 20 meg


To put that in perspective, 4.1 coming from ESB is running 6-17 Mbps.

I worry about the picture quality that WNET will be putting out once
WEBR and WMBQ will be sharing its frequency.

Surely, wonderful nature programming deserves the best picture
quality possible.


----------



## Trip in VA

SnellKrell said:


> I worry about the picture quality that WNET will be putting out once
> WEBC [sic] and WMBQ will be sharing its frequency.


WMBQ-CD and WEBR-CD are already sharing on WNET.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Thanks Trip.

Hadn't done a rescan since WNBC began transmitting from WNJU's 1WTC facility.

Just checked out 13.

My HDTV doesn't list WMBQ in its station lineup, does list WEBR.

But, on 13.3, Biz TV, the picture is letterboxed with 

WMBQ-CD, New York, NY

in white lettering in the upper right of the letterboxing.

Then there's 13.4, WEBR with possibly one of the worst pictures
I've ever seen - so soft, little definition.

What a pity that WNET, a bastion of quality is transmitting this!


----------



## nyctveng

SnellKrell said:


> To put that in perspective, 4.1 coming from ESB is running 6-17 Mbps.
> 
> I worry about the picture quality that WNET will be putting out once
> WEBR and WMBQ will be sharing its frequency.
> 
> Surely, wonderful nature programming deserves the best picture
> quality possible.


4.1 from ESB is about 16meg steady with 4.2 at about 2meg steady from what I recall 

4.3 from WTC is 5-12meg variable

I'll check bitrates for WNET and its subchannels when I get a chance


----------



## EF9500

nyctveng said:


> 4.1 from ESB is about 16meg steady with 4.2 at about 2meg steady from what I recall
> 
> 4.3 from WTC is 5-12meg variable
> 
> I'll check bitrates for WNET and its subchannels when I get a chance


Yup, 4.1 was 16meg consistent. 4.3 is 6meg consistent. It flat out sucks. My direct TV feed is better. Might be time to ditch ota.


----------



## nyctveng

EF9500 said:


> Getting ion with 70% signal here in Stony Brook. It's not being transmitted from wtc. Still ESB.


WPXN is indeed transmitting from WTC now. They still have facilities at ESB for the time being in case WTC has issues.


----------



## EF9500

nyctveng said:


> WPXN is indeed transmitting from WTC now. They still have facilities at ESB for the time being in case WTC has issues.


What frequency is from wtc?


----------



## reddice

nyctveng said:


> WPXN is indeed transmitting from WTC now. They still have facilities at ESB for the time being in case WTC has issues.


That is why I can receive it now. When it was on the ESB I could not receive it at all. Heck stations from NJ came in stronger.


----------



## mets18

EF9500 said:


> Yup, 4.1 was 16meg consistent. 4.3 is 6meg consistent. It flat out sucks. My direct TV feed is better. Might be time to ditch ota.


The question is whether Directv and other cable companies switch to the low bitrate feed to save space after RF 28 goes away in March.


----------



## EF9500

mets18 said:


> The question is whether Directv and other cable companies switch to the low bitrate feed to save space after RF 28 goes away in March.


I believe they get a direct fiber feed. If they want to save bandwidth, they can just lower the bitrate feed.


----------



## nyctveng

EF9500 said:


> What frequency is from wtc?


Still on 31 for now.


----------



## EF9500

nyctveng said:


> Still on 31 for now.


Thanks. For me, at least out here 60 miles away on long island, the signal from wtc is pretty amazing. Getting 90 signal on NBC, 84 on ion. I might get higher with a readjusted antenna.


----------



## nyctveng

mets18 said:


> The question is whether Directv and other cable companies switch to the low bitrate feed to save space after RF 28 goes away in March.


The satellite and cable companies might have no choice. 99% of the time, the fiber feed mirrors what is going to the transmitter. A station could send a higher bitrate feed but the question is whether they want to. It requires another encoder and powering it 24/7/365 which might not seem like much of a cost but stations' budgets are always stretched thin. So cost and operationally it makes sense to feed everyone from the same encoder.


----------



## trailblazer

nyctveng said:


> The satellite and cable companies might have no choice. 99% of the time, the fiber feed mirrors what is going to the transmitter. A station could send a higher bitrate feed but the question is whether they want to. It requires another encoder and powering it 24/7/365 which might not seem like much of a cost but stations' budgets are always stretched thin. So cost and operationally it makes sense to feed everyone from the same encoder.


I find it amazing that a major TV station in the New York area would want to transmit such a poor quality signal OTA. I did a comparison between New York WNBC (4.1, 4.3) and Philly WCAU (10.1) OTA on my 100 inch screen and it is very easy to discern the difference in the 4.3 signal. It is flat and lacks detail in comparison to 4.1 and 10.1 signals. Hopefully they have a method to improve the overall look of the signal on 4.3 before 4.1 is discontinued on its current RF channel.


----------



## nyctveng

trailblazer said:


> I find it amazing that a major TV station in the New York area would want to transmit such a poor quality signal OTA. I did a comparison between New York WNBC (4.1, 4.3) and Philly WCAU (10.1) OTA on my 100 inch screen and it is very easy to discern the difference in the 4.3 signal. It is flat and lacks detail in comparison to 4.1 and 10.1 signals. Hopefully they have a method to improve the overall look of the signal on 4.3 before 4.1 is discontinued on its current RF channel.


Quality of encoders has improved since the OTA DTV started so 8 meg today may be as good as say 12 meg from 4 years. ago. I imagine they may tweak the allocated bandwidth after 4-1 on CH 28 gets shut down.


----------



## nyctveng

*WXTV on 40*

WXTV on 40 is shutting down by the end of the week


----------



## Trip in VA

trailblazer said:


> I did a comparison between New York WNBC (4.1, 4.3) and Philly WCAU (10.1) OTA on my 100 inch screen and it is very easy to discern the difference in the 4.3 signal. It is flat and lacks detail in comparison to 4.1 and 10.1 signals.


That's very interesting considering WCAU is doing the same thing WNJU is doing--2x1080i and 2x480i. One of two things is true:

1) They're somehow configured differently such that WCAU looks better than WNJU, or

2) Placebo effect.

It is entirely possible that 1 is the case; since there are currently two signals, maybe they're favoring 47-1 and 10-1 over 4-3 and 62-3 on those transmitters until the shutoff occurs. But it seems odd that they'd do that, since I think part of the point is to get people used to the new configuration.

- Trip


----------



## reddice

About time they start to broadcast TV stations on the new 1WTC. Reception is much more reliable than on the ESB. Any word of FM stations moving to the 1WTC? I remember WKCR, WPAT, WNYC and WKTU were on the old 1WTC and the reception was so strong.


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> That's very interesting considering WCAU is doing the same thing WNJU is doing--2x1080i and 2x480i. One of two things is true:
> 
> 1) They're somehow configured differently such that WCAU looks better than WNJU, or
> 
> 2) Placebo effect.
> 
> It is entirely possible that 1 is the case; since there are currently two signals, maybe they're favoring 47-1 and 10-1 over 4-3 and 62-3 on those transmitters until the shutoff occurs. But it seems odd that they'd do that, since I think part of the point is to get people used to the new configuration.
> 
> - Trip



I believe over time they will prioritize WNBC over WNJU and maybe change from 1080i to 720p. ABC stations were the pioneers of cramming 2 HD's in one ATSC channel and got a ton of complaints when their main channel's quality suffered because of they allocated the same bandwidth to LiveWell which had 2 viewers, 1 of which was the president of the channel. 
I think the issue was resolved by allocating more mbps to ABC main channel and prioritizing it in the mux.


Univision changed their 1080i feeds to 720p when they realized their stations looked like crap when WFUT and WXTV were simulcasting each other's services. Equipment peddlers (aka Sales Engineers) that visit TV station's will tell you BS like our overpriced encoder can maintain your current 18 meg HD channel at 6 meg so you can cram a dozen channels in there and not lose PQ. Total BS.


----------



## KEVINL71

Will WCBS-TV channel 2 stay at the ESB? My mother gets them in HD, along side of local WFSB-TV (CBS) channel 3 of Hartford. Most likely, it's how Frontier processes the signal, but WCBS looked so-so in HD. It was a few seconds ahead of WFSB. I compared the two signals as CBS was airing _The Kennedy Center Honors_.


----------



## n2ubp

nyctveng said:


> Quality of encoders has improved since the OTA DTV started so 8 meg today may be as good as say 12 meg from 4 years. ago. I imagine they may tweak the allocated bandwidth after 4-1 on CH 28 gets shut down.


4-3 and 4-4 provide a more stable signal to me 50 - 60 miles northwest of NYC in Middletown, NY than 4-1 and 4-2.


----------



## trailblazer

n2ubp said:


> 4-3 and 4-4 provide a more stable signal to me 50 - 60 miles northwest of NYC in Middletown, NY than 4-1 and 4-2.


I am in the same position in South Jersey at 48 miles from NYC. Signal from 4-3, 4-4, 47-1, 47-2 is very strong than it was at the Empire State Building. Basically it is about 35% stronger in my situation. Hopefully, all NYC stations move their transmitters onto the Freedom Tower.


----------



## LenL

Speaking of reception issues. WABC 7.1 is usually my best VHF station. However right now signal strength is close to 100% and signal quality is way down below 50%. Picture is breaking up because of the issues.

Anyone else out there having issues with WABC 7.1?

Trips monitoring site is showing signal quality is not all that great but better than I am seeing at my location.


----------



## LenL

trailblazer said:


> I am in the same position in South Jersey at 48 miles from NYC. Signal from 4-3, 4-4, 47-1, 47-2 is very strong than it was at the Empire State Building. Basically it is about 35% stronger in my situation. Hopefully, all NYC stations move their transmitters onto the Freedom Tower.


Trailblazer,

Isn't Jackson in central Jersey and not south Jersey?

I think people in south jersey would be getting TV OTA from Philly stations.


----------



## trailblazer

LenL said:


> Trailblazer,
> 
> Isn't Jackson in central Jersey and not south Jersey?
> 
> I think people in south jersey would be getting TV OTA from Philly stations.


I can get signals from both NYC and Philly. I am approximately dead center between their transmitters. As to Jackson in central or south Jersey, it depends who you talk to.


----------



## nyctveng

KEVINL71 said:


> Will WCBS-TV channel 2 stay at the ESB? My mother gets them in HD, along side of local WFSB-TV (CBS) channel 3 of Hartford. Most likely, it's how Frontier processes the signal, but WCBS looked so-so in HD. It was a few seconds ahead of WFSB. I compared the two signals as CBS was airing _The Kennedy Center Honors_.


WCBS is moving to WTC. ESB will be backup.


----------



## reddice

nyctveng said:


> WCBS is moving to WTC. ESB will be backup.


Good. I really wish WPIX would move to the WTC? If it did I would reactivate my TiVo service. I cancelled it because when I recorded something quite often it would just break up into black boxes and I would miss a chunk of my program. I had to record off Dish which is more reliable even when it rains.


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> WCBS is moving to WTC. ESB will be backup.


What about the current AUX for WCBS at American Towers' West Orange location?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*Updates on the NYC Area Repack*

Updates on the NYC Metro Area Repack - December 31, 2017:

* WNET-DT3 Newark, RF 13.5 (WMBQ-CD New York) is off-the-air;
* WNET-DT4 Newark, RF 13.6 (WEBR-CD Manhattan) is off-the-air;
* WXTV Paterson, RF 40, is off-the-air;
* WFUT-DT4 Newark, RF 30.4 (Escape) is now airing *Bounce TV* with PSIP still reflecting the name "ESCAPE" but with program guide info reflecting Bounce TV programming.

In other repack news, if WNJB-TV New Brunswick, RF 8, cannot secure a translator to relay their signal north of their existing contour following the eventual sign-off of WNJN Montclair, RF 51, it is possible many in the immediate NYC area WHO LIVE IN LOWER ELEVATIONS may lose NJTV coverage.


----------



## nyctveng

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Updates on the NYC Metro Area Repack - December 31, 2017:
> 
> 
> * WFUT-DT4 Newark, RF 30.4 (Escape) is now airing *Bounce TV* with PSIP still reflecting the name "ESCAPE" but with program guide info reflecting Bounce TV programming.
> .


A re-scan of your equipment will show the proper PSIP info. Prior to re-scan after the shutdown, my equipment was showing Bounce on 41-2 and 68-4 and Univision on 41-1 and 68-2.


----------



## reddice

What RF channel is WNYW moving too?


----------



## SnellKrell

reddice said:


> What RF channel is WNYW moving too?


27


----------



## reddice

SnellKrell said:


> 27


Thanks. I think it would have made more sense to share the station with WWOR instead of having a useless SD sub channel.


----------



## ALP

nyctveng said:


> I believe over time they will prioritize WNBC over WNJU and maybe change from 1080i to 720p. ABC stations were the pioneers of cramming 2 HD's in one ATSC channel and got a ton of complaints when their main channel's quality suffered because of they allocated the same bandwidth to LiveWell which had 2 viewers, 1 of which was the president of the channel.
> I think the issue was resolved by allocating more mbps to ABC main channel and prioritizing it in the mux.
> 
> 
> Univision changed their 1080i feeds to 720p when they realized their stations looked like crap when WFUT and WXTV were simulcasting each other's services. Equipment peddlers (aka Sales Engineers) that visit TV station's will tell you BS like our overpriced encoder can maintain your current 18 meg HD channel at 6 meg so you can cram a dozen channels in there and not lose PQ. Total BS.


How do most people here feel about 1080i versus 720p? On most programing I could care less (we set 8 feet from a 60" plasma screen - Pioneer Koru). I know that 720p actually gives you more video data, however, when I watch NFL football the difference between CBS's 1080i and Fox 720p is very obvious and my eye / brain system clearly prefers the 1080i because it is a sharper picture.


----------



## n2ubp

ALP said:


> How do most people here feel about 1080i versus 720p? On most programing I could care less (we set 8 feet from a 60" plasma screen - Pioneer Koru). I know that 720p actually gives you more video data, however, when I watch NFL football the difference between CBS's 1080i and Fox 720p is very obvious and my eye / brain system clearly prefers the 1080i because it is a sharper picture.


720P does the job for me! Then again I'm using a 32 inch Panasonic TV I purchased for $1,400 in 2006!


----------



## LenL

ALP said:


> How do most people here feel about 1080i versus 720p? On most programing I could care less (we set 8 feet from a 60" plasma screen - Pioneer Koru). I know that 720p actually gives you more video data, however, when I watch NFL football the difference between CBS's 1080i and Fox 720p is very obvious and my eye / brain system clearly prefers the 1080i because it is a sharper picture.



I think you can google this and get a tech explanation. One is supposed to be better for sports. That being said I find 1080i always a better sharper picture for my eyes. I prefer it.

https://www.lifewire.com/difference-between-720p-and-1080i-1847334


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> I think you can google this and get a tech explanation. One is supposed to be better for sports. That being said I find 1080i always a better sharper picture for my eyes. I prefer it.
> 
> https://www.lifewire.com/difference-between-720p-and-1080i-1847334


Len, Great article, thank you! :smile: I guess this means that the processor on my Pioneer Kuro is doing a good job of up converting 1080i to 1080p.


----------



## LenL

Rabbit Air mobile is off the air. May be for maintenance.


----------



## Aero 1

*Nonprofit Launches NY TV Station Streaming Service
Sports Fans Coalition says it does not need broadcasters' permission to 'Locast'*

http://www.multichannel.com/news/di...unches-ny-tv-station-streaming-service/417452

https://www.locast.org/


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> *Nonprofit Launches NY TV Station Streaming Service
> Sports Fans Coalition says it does not need broadcasters' permission to 'Locast'*
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/news/di...unches-ny-tv-station-streaming-service/417452
> 
> https://www.locast.org/



I tried to register and use the service but got nowhere. I wonder if it has died already.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> I tried to register and use the service but got nowhere. I wonder if it has died already.


you dont need to register, just go to the site and it starts streaming. im doing it now.


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> you dont need to register, just go to the site and it starts streaming. im doing it now.


No dice for me! I'm in Randolph NJ and it said I was out of the area. Would not give me anything. So I registered thinking that might help and the registration process failed. I guess Randolph is not in the NY City Market or designated market area.

Locast.org is a public service to New Yorkers that provides over the Internet the local broadcast signals of 14 New York City broadcast stations. All you have to do is sign up online, provide your name and email address, and certify that you live in, and are logging on from, the New York City market ("Designated Market Area"). Then, you can select among New York broadcasters and stream your favorite local station.


----------



## Rieper

Hello all, I got my mother an antenna since she only watches Univision Channel 41-1 here in NYC. She tells me can no longer get it since the beginning of the month. Anyone know what happened? She can still get Telemundo on Channel 47-1 but she would really like to see her programming on Univision again. I don't live with her, so if I get a solution I will head over and adjust her antenna settings if needed. Really want to help her out if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## SnellKrell

Rieper said:


> Hello all, I got my mother an antenna since she only watches Univision Channel 41-1 here in NYC. She tells me can no longer get it since the beginning of the month. Anyone know what happened? She can still get Telemundo on Channel 47-1 but she would really like to see her programming on Univision again. I don't live with her, so if I get a solution I will head over and adjust her antenna settings if needed. Really want to help her out if possible.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.


WXTV, Univision, Display Channel 41 is now being transmitted by its sister station WFUT, Display Channel 68.

A rescan of your mother's television set will be necessary to once again view WXTV.

It should then continue to show up as Channel 41.


----------



## Rieper

SnellKrell said:


> WXTV, Univision, Display Channel 41 is now being transmitted by its sister station WFUT, Display Channel 68.
> 
> A rescan of your mother's television set will be necessary to once again view WXTV.
> 
> It should then continue to show up as Channel 41.


Hey, thanks! She's gonna be so happy when I rescan it tomorrow.


----------



## nyctveng

*Wnjn*

WNJN out of Montclair, NJ is shutting down by week's end.


----------



## LenL

nyctveng said:


> WNJN out of Montclair, NJ is shutting down by week's end.


Oh NO! So the only way to get NJ PBS is over VHF 8.1 out of New Brunswick?

Where I live I would have to reorient my VHF antenna and so doing lose 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> Oh NO! So the only way to get NJ PBS is over VHF 8.1 out of New Brunswick?
> 
> Where I live I would have to reorient my VHF antenna and so doing lose 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1!


Exactly!

Yes, New Jersey Public Broadcasting truly needed the money when it sold off its Montclair frequency.

But, the "Public's Interest, Convenience and Necessity" has been relegated to a museum of ancient relics.

The powers that be don't seem to care about you and me!!!!


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> Oh NO! So the only way to get NJ PBS is over VHF 8.1 out of New Brunswick?
> 
> Where I live I would have to reorient my VHF antenna and so doing lose 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1!


Yes:frown:

43 out of Trenton and 51 out of Montclair will be gone as early as today. Lots of content is available at http://www.njtvonline.org/


----------



## Trip in VA

At my grandmother's house, WNJB is not receivable no matter what. I've tried. So NJTV will be gone from Fair Lawn, NJ.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> Yes:frown:
> 
> 43 out of Trenton and 51 out of Montclair will be gone as early as today. Lots of content is available at http://www.njtvonline.org/


According to an FCC filing dated 1/19/18, the station will go dark tomorrow.

New Jersey Public Broadcasting Authority (“NJPBA”) hereby notifies the Commission that it will suspend operations of noncommercial educational television station WNJN, Montclair, New Jersey, on Channel 51, in order to commence channel sharing on Channel 8 with co-owned noncommercial educational television station WNJB, New Brunswick, New Jersey. Channel sharing on Channel 8 is scheduled to commence on January 23, 2018.


----------



## LenL

So I guess they feel that North Jersey is NOT worthy of OTA coverage! The most populous part of the state! Makes zero sense!

Why do I feel screwed by the repack?


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> So I guess they feel that North Jersey is NOT worthy of OTA coverage! The most populous part of the state! Makes zero sense!
> 
> Why do I feel screwed by the repack?


Talking about not making sense.

The Trenton station is also going dark, and that's the state capital!

With WNET operating the New Jersey network of public television stations, 
wasn't there the possiblility of the Montclair station to broadcast as a WNET
subchannel vs. the the two new "questionable to me" subs?

Also, with WLIW moving to 1WTC, that station could have been a host to
WNJN.

Am I being too logical?????


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> Am I being too logical?????


Yes.


----------



## Aero 1

SnellKrell said:


> Also, with *WLIW moving to 1WTC*, that station could have been a host to
> WNJN.


is that true? first ive heard of it. when was this announced? and when is it supposed to happen?


----------



## SnellKrell

Aero 1 said:


> is that true? first ive heard of it. when was this announced? and when is it supposed to happen?


FCC Filing - 10/30/17.

The proposed WLIW facility will employ a shared antenna which has been installed on 
the uppermost portion of a mast atop the recently completed One World Trade Center building 
(“1WTC”). The mast structure atop 1WTC is associated with FCC Antenna Structure 
Registration number 1263701. No change to the overall structure height will result. 


Don't have a date.

For everything you want to know about what's planned and what's going on, reading 
RabbitEars is a *must*!


----------



## Aero 1

SnellKrell said:


> FCC Filing - 10/30/17.
> 
> The proposed WLIW facility will employ a shared antenna which has been installed on
> the uppermost portion of a mast atop the recently completed One World Trade Center building
> (“1WTC”). The mast structure atop 1WTC is associated with FCC Antenna Structure
> Registration number 1263701. No change to the overall structure height will result.
> 
> 
> Don't have a date.
> 
> For everything you want to know about what's planned and what's going on, reading
> RabbitEars is a *must*!


thanks, i must of missed it. all of trip's updates are about arizona so kinda ignore the rss feed update.


----------



## SnellKrell

Aero 1 said:


> thanks, i must of missed it. all of trip's updates are about arizona so kinda ignore the rss feed update.


On the RabbitEars site, Click the Update tab and then choose Site Updates -
different from the Arizona updates.


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell said:


> Talking about not making sense.
> 
> The Trenton station is also going dark, and that's the state capital!
> 
> With WNET operating the New Jersey network of public television stations,
> wasn't there the possiblility of the Montclair station to broadcast as a WNET
> subchannel vs. the the two new "questionable to me" subs?
> 
> Also, with WLIW moving to 1WTC, that station could have been a host to
> WNJN.
> 
> Am I being too logical?????


No!

It did not make sense to have all of these stations. That being said they should have devised a better plan like broadcast from places so that all of the state could receive our only NJ centric station. 
Yes I can get 13.1 but the NJN programming is not always the same and the local news and stories are better on NJN. When I have a choice I watch 50.1 over 13.1. Now I guess it will be 13.1 all the time. Only other problem is sometimes VHF reception for 13.1 goes south on me while 50.1 was almost 100% reliable!

I can't get WLIW now but if they broadcast from 1WTC maybe we can get it here in north central NJ?


----------



## jogiba

I have my antenna here in Millstone NJ aimed at One World Trade Center and get about 40 stations but I mostly watch CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC and WNET 13 PBS.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> No!
> 
> It did not make sense to have all of these stations. That being said they should have devised a better plan like broadcast from places so that all of the state could receive our only NJ centric station.
> Yes I can get 13.1 but the NJN programming is not always the same and the local news and stories are better on NJN. When I have a choice I watch 50.1 over 13.1. Now I guess it will be 13.1 all the time. Only other problem is sometimes VHF reception for 13.1 goes south on me while 50.1 was almost 100% reliable!
> 
> I can't get WLIW now but if they broadcast from 1WTC maybe we can get it here in north central NJ?


"It did not make sense to have all of these stations."

Actually it did.

The intent was to provide localized coverage. For example,
the Montclair audience has different needs and interests from
those viewers living all the way down south.

Again, an intent and not a financial reality.

Manhattan Cable's original thought was to have 10 headends
serving 10 different communities, all in the franchise's southern
portion of Manhattan. 

All sounds great - then costs come into play.


----------



## LenL

Actually I just looked at their contour map (WNJB) and it looks really great. Looks are deceiving. It looks wonderful for the engineers. They make it look like all of North Jersey can receive their signal.

Hello. Anyone from WNJB monitoring this forum? Probably not.

You guys at WNJB don't know squat about OTA reception.

1. VHF is mush tougher to receive than UHF over the air.

2. In order for those of us in many North Jersey locations to get your VHF signal we would have to change the aim of our VHF antennas from the ESB or 1WTC to your direction and give up signal from 13.1, 11.1 and 7.1. That is totally unreasonable and unacceptable! Actually I would be plain stupid to do this.

3. Expect a big reduction in viewership with this lame brain decision!


----------



## LenL

Nice antenna setup and picture! Love the snow!


----------



## LenL

Oh and when I explained it to the wife she said I ain't touching the antenna! 

So there!


----------



## KEVINL71

So let me see if I have this right: New Jersey public television stations will be down to channel 23 of Camden and channel 58 of New Brunswick? Here in Connecticut, WEDY-TV channel 65 of New Haven is no longer on the air for CPTV (Connecticut Public Television).


----------



## Neil Griffin

Back when many of these statewide educational networks were assembled, the goal was sending programming to K-12 schools. UHF didn't go far (due to poor quality TV tuners) and open channels were plentiful, resulting in today's overlapping (at least on paper) signals. Now that channels are valuable in an area like NY/CT/NJ, some of those signals start looking like a gold mine to legislatures.


----------



## LenL

As of this AM, WNJN was still on the air and there were no crawlers or messages saying it was going off the air.

So who knows what is going on! Maybe today is the last day. You would think they would communicate to viewers!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> As of this AM, WNJN was still on the air and there were no crawlers or messages saying it was going off the air.
> 
> So who knows what is going on! Maybe today is the last day. You would think they would communicate to viewers!


I thought that the FCC required Local Public Notice minimally 30 days before a change such as this.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> I thought that the FCC required Local Public Notice minimally 30 days before a change such as this.


I don't think anyone care anymore.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNJN on RF 51 went dark at noon today!


----------



## LenL

Too bad I did not have the power to fire some people who turned the lights off at WNJN and did not give viewers any notice!

Even the FCC should be appalled...then again perhaps no one cares about the OTA viewers but OTA viewers!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

It would make sense for the New Jersey Public Broadcasting Authority to sign-on a VHF translator (perhaps operating on channels 8, 9, or 10) to retransmit WNJB-TV New Brunswick from Empire or WTC. Would such a maneuver be lawfully and technically sound? Another alternative would be to be added as a subchannel on WNET Newark, seeing as WEBR-CD and WMBQ-CD appear to have been permanently silenced.


----------



## Trip in VA

The tidiest solution, IMO, would be for WNJB to move to 1WTC. It would fit there at 34 kW (same as WABC is authorized for) without issue, according to the analysis I did a few months ago. It would have the best high-VHF signal in the market that way, and likely do a better job of serving northern New Jersey.

Unfortunately, rent at 1WTC is probably a lot more expensive than on the tower owned by the State of New Jersey, and WNJB previously held a permit to move to 4 Times Square and didn't build it. There's also the fact that 1WTC isn't in New Jersey, which could be a political problem.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip you are probably correct about the politics with NJ PBS broadcasting from NY. On the other hand the politicians have NO issue with the Jets and Giants playing in NJ and calling themselves NY!

All...rabbit ears mobile is back up and running! Minus WNJN!

Trip I don't know if it is your setup, the weather or what but the reception results you are now showing are not as good as before your site went down.

https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php...0343612&tno=1&sort=vch&hours=1&tzone=ET&unit=


----------



## SnellKrell

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> It would make sense for the New Jersey Public Broadcasting Authority to sign-on a VHF translator (perhaps operating on channels 8, 9, or 10) to retransmit WNJB-TV New Brunswick from Empire or WTC. Would such a maneuver be lawfully and technically sound? Another alternative would be to be added as a subchannel on WNET Newark, seeing as WEBR-CD and WMBQ-CD appear to have been permanently silenced.


Unfortunately, according to FCC filings, it appears that both WEBR-CD and WMBQ-CD's "Silent" status is only temporary, The filings talk about an additional 180 days of silence until WNET moves to 1WTC.


Here's part of WEBR-CD's filing - WMBQ-CD's is identical.


"Authorization for an additional 180 days for WEBR-CD to remain silent is respectfully requested, to allow sufficient time to plan for and relocate its broadcast facilities and resume service on the station." 


So sorry that WNET found it financially necessary to get involved with those two stations and, in any way, diminish the quality of its main signal.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> Unfortunately, according to FCC filings, it appears that both WEBR-CD and WMBQ-CD's "Silent" status is only temporary, The filings talk about an additional 180 days of silence until WNET moves to 1WTC.
> 
> 
> Here's part of WEBR-CD's filing - WMBQ-CD's is identical.
> 
> 
> "Authorization for an additional 180 days for WEBR-CD to remain silent is respectfully requested, to allow sufficient time to plan for and relocate its broadcast facilities and resume service on the station."
> 
> 
> So sorry that WNET found it financially necessary to get involved with those two stations and, in any way, diminish the quality of its main signal.


Why do you think the quality will suffer?


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> Why do you think the quality will suffer?


Although both WEBR-CD and WMBQ-CD will be transmitted in only 480i,
they still will be taking away precious bits from WNET's picture. Again,
this is a bigger problem for WNET than for most stations because of the
fine arts programming the station broadcasts. 

Before the temporary silence, when those stations had started transmitting
on Channel 13, WEBR-CD's picture was possibly the worst I have ever seen!

I've worked in television production for many years and appreciate quality
pictures.

I fondly remember, before WCBS was "forced" to fire up 2.2, the station put
out the best picture in the market - there were no sub-channel to siphon-off 
needed bits. Those were the days, unfortunately, they're long gone.

I guess we'll have to wait for ATSC 3.0 to allow stations to make strange
carriage deals to host other broadcasters and provide OTA pictures that
are not diminished by the prodding of green eyeshades!

Bottom line, not enough people seem to care.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> Although both WEBR-CD and WMBQ-CD will be transmitted in only 480i,
> they still will be taking away precious bits from WNET's picture. Again,
> this is a bigger problem for WNET than for most stations because of the
> fine arts programming the station broadcasts.
> 
> Before the temporary silence, when those stations had started transmitting
> on Channel 13, WEBR-CD's picture was possibly the worst I have ever seen!
> 
> I've worked in television production for many years and appreciate quality
> pictures.
> 
> I fondly remember, before WCBS was "forced" to fire up 2.2, the station put
> out the best picture in the market - there were no sub-channel to siphon-off
> needed bits. Those were the days, unfortunately, they're long gone.
> 
> I guess we'll have to wait for ATSC 3.0 to allow stations to make strange
> carriage deals to host other broadcasters and provide OTA pictures that
> are not diminished by the prodding of green eyeshades!
> 
> Bottom line, not enough people seem to care.


Ugh, didn't realize they will be sharing bandwidth. Same thing is going on with wnbc and telemundo. Wnbc looks like garbage now that they are sharing bandwidth. Guess I will be giving up on ota. Picture looks better on DirecTV now. What a bummer.


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> Ugh, didn't realize they will be sharing bandwidth. Same thing is going on with wnbc and telemundo. Wnbc looks like garbage now that they are sharing bandwidth. Guess I will be giving up on ota. Picture looks better on DirecTV now. What a bummer.


When you want to watch WNBC, tune in 4.1 from ESB, not 4.3 from 1WTC.

Empire State provides a better picture.

Enjoy it while you can - WNBC will be saying goodbye to ESB.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> When you want to watch WNBC, tune in 4.1 from ESB, not 4.3 from 1WTC.
> 
> Empire State provides a better picture.
> 
> Enjoy it while you can - WNBC will be saying goodbye to ESB.


I do, but it will be off air from esb by March


----------



## LenL

Trip,

Can Rabbit Ears mobile pick up WNJB and show how well it is received at your NJ location? Or would you have to re aim your antenna and forgo all the NY stations?


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> Trip,
> 
> Can Rabbit Ears mobile pick up WNJB and show how well it is received at your NJ location? Or would you have to re aim your antenna and forgo all the NY stations?


WNJB is entirely unavailable at that location. Believe me, I've tried.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Thanks Trip.

I'm curious now if anyone on this forum can receive it and where they are located.


----------



## FrankH3rd

WNJB comes in booming at my location, but then again I am only five or six miles to the west in Hillsborough NJ. 

BTW, what's the point of co-locating 50.1 WNJN with WNJB on RF8? It's not like it will have better reception in parts of the state that WNJB doesn't reach.


----------



## SnellKrell

FrankH3rd said:


> WNJB comes in booming at my location, but then again I am only five or six miles to the west in Hillsborough NJ.
> 
> BTW, what's the point of co-locating 50.1 WNJN with WNJB on RF8? It's not like it will have better reception in parts of the state that WNJB doesn't reach.


The point was New Jersey Public Broadcasting Authority got big bucks for selling
WNJN's UHF frequency; more valuable than a VHF frequency,

Trenton's treasury was more important than viewers' ability to receive the programming!

And, not enough people seem to care.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

FrankH3rd said:


> WNJB comes in booming at my location, but then again I am only five or six miles to the west in Hillsborough NJ.
> 
> BTW, what's the point of co-locating 50.1 WNJN with WNJB on RF8? It's not like it will have better reception in parts of the state that WNJB doesn't reach.


I'm wondering about this also. Given the fact that the programming for all of the NJPBA television stations is essentially simulcasted, can WNJB-TV viewers soon expect to see TWO NJTV streams over RF 8 using virtual channels 50-1 and 58-1? What purpose, other than degrading the bitrate thus harming the viewers' experience, would such a hybrid operation achieve? And as FrankH3rd accurately points out, this would not provide signal coverage to those displaced viewers living within the contours of the now silenced stations.

I like Trip's informal idea of NJPBA launching an RF 8 operation from Manhattan, NY. Understandably the lease fees would likely be prohibitive especially for a non-profit, therefore I'm wondering if a lease at 4 Times Square or even at the former WFME-TV/WNYJ-TV facility in West Orange, NJ. would be a more cost-effective option to replicate the WNJN coverage area.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,

The engineers look at the coverage map for WNJB broadcast (Check Rabbit Ears for a link) and see that North Jersey and even parts of Orange County NY have signal so they are not about to make any changes.


----------



## nyctveng

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> I'm wondering about this also. Given the fact that the programming for all of the NJPBA television stations is essentially simulcasted, can WNJB-TV viewers soon expect to see TWO NJTV streams over RF 8 using virtual channels 50-1 and 58-1? What purpose, other than degrading the bitrate thus harming the viewers' experience, would such a hybrid operation achieve? And as FrankH3rd accurately points out, this would not provide signal coverage to those displaced viewers living within the contours of the now silenced stations.
> 
> I like Trip's informal idea of NJPBA launching an RF 8 operation from Manhattan, NY. Understandably the lease fees would likely be prohibitive especially for a non-profit, therefore I'm wondering if a lease at 4 Times Square or even at the former WFME-TV/WNYJ-TV facility in West Orange, NJ. would be a more cost-effective option to replicate the WNJN coverage area.


The reason for 2 identical streams with different PSIP (virtual channels) is likely for legal purposes. Although the content is identical, WNJN and WNJB are still 2 separate stations that entered into a channel share agreement. Many viewers lost WNJN 50 but at least on paper 50 is not lost. Those that can receive 8 from New Brunswick will still see "50". If for any reason down the line, WNJN 50 gets sold and converts to something other than NJTV, then they still retain OTA viewers and maintain the same must carry and all other rights such as being retransmitted via WNJB and carriage on local cable systems. Many cable systems that fall in the area of must carry for both WNJB and WNJN but the only reason 1 NJTV (formerly NJN) was carried on any cable system was due to identical content. Change in content would result in area systems carrying a new channel in addition to the current NJTV. This would apply also to WNJT Trenton that was shut down and now channel sharing on WNJS Camden.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

nyctveng said:


> The reason for 2 identical streams with different PSIP (virtual channels) is likely for legal purposes. Although the content is identical, WNJN and WNJB are still 2 separate stations that entered into a channel share agreement. Many viewers lost WNJN 50 but at least on paper 50 is not lost. Those that can receive 8 from New Brunswick will still see "50". If for any reason down the line, WNJN 50 gets sold and converts to something other than NJTV, then they still retain OTA viewers and maintain the same must carry and all other rights such as being retransmitted via WNJB and carriage on local cable systems. Many cable systems that fall in the area of must carry for both WNJB and WNJN but the only reason 1 NJTV (formerly NJN) was carried on any cable system was due to identical content. Change in content would result in area systems carrying a new channel in addition to the current NJTV. This would apply also to WNJT Trenton that was shut down and now channel sharing on WNJS Camden.


Thank you, nyctveng. That explanation fully explains the reasoning, yet the ultimate outcome for viewers remains illogical in practice while logical on paper.

Another idea to help viewers would be for the NJPBA to split the bandwidth in a manner favoring WNJB-TV substantially, essentially replicating the current arrangement on WCBS-TV with CBS2 being allocated a disproportionately large share of the available bitrate while Decades is thrown crumbs in comparison. MVPD companies would still rely on a fiber feed so this arrangement would not disenfranchise Pay-TV subscribers, which I imagine the NJPBA views as more important than the broadcast audience anyway.

And, it goes without saying, New Jersey's legislators view their constituents' financial accounts and salaries as bottomless pits and whom all can afford the highest levels of cable TV service, the highest rates of taxes, and still manage to contribute heavily to the ongoing operations of the NJTV network. So any proposal that would place an additional financial burden on New Jersey's taxpayers - even perhaps encrypting the NJTV stations for subscription-only service or offering them in CATV premium packages only - would likely be enthusiastically embraced and welcomed by our esteemed elected officials.


----------



## srm1964

*Reception Issues From ESB stations, Brooklyn NY*

Over the past two weeks, I have been having significant issues receiving CBS (2.1, 2.2), NBC (4.1, 4.2), WNYW (5.1, etc), WOR (9.1, etc) I am 11 miles from the ESB, roof mounted antenna 6 stories up, clear line of sight to the ESB / WTC. This setup has been in place for many years, nothing has changed on my end. Most days, these stations show absolutely no signal (0 on quality, 0 on strength). This started approximately 2 weeks ago. For a few days in the period, all of the channels started working again, with 100 quality / strength. I was able to pick up 9-4 Heroes during this period, which I've never received before.

I can receive WABC 7 (and subchannels), WPIX 11 (and subchannels), WNET (and subs) each VHF. I can receive NBC on 4.3 and 4.4 which come from the WTC (same line of sight from my location in Brooklyn).

I've looked at the RabbitEars graphs from Fairlawn NJ, which seem to indicate a relative strength around 65 and a relative signal around 70 on WNYW. I assume this means that WNYW is sending a signal, but I don't know if that means the Fairlawn location is receiving a usable signal. Fairlawn is estimated at 14 miles from the ESB, a greater relative distance than I am.

I've tried rescanning, but it doesn't help. I don't think that the RF channel has changed yet for these stations.

Anyone else having issues?


----------



## LenL

I would suspect a loose or bad connection. Somewhere from the mast to your TV. Or too much signal overloading your equipment.


----------



## srm1964

Thanks, LenL, I checked and tightened everything, but the problem continues.


----------



## LenL

srm1964 said:


> Thanks, LenL, I checked and tightened everything, but the problem continues.


Are connected to your TV without any pre amps or distribution amps? Any filters, splitters or combiners? Clean from the antenna to the TV?


----------



## srm1964

LenL said:


> Are connected to your TV without any pre amps or distribution amps? Any filters, splitters or combiners? Clean from the antenna to the TV?


No pre amps, distribution amps or filters, 1 two way splitter. I've tried removing the splitter from the set up and going straight to the TV. Same result (no signal on the impacted channels). This is not the typical behavior in bad weather. During heavy rain, the picture would break up to the point of being unwatchable, but there was a slight signal. 

At the moment, the UHF channels involved are all from the ESB, while VHF from ESB and UHF from WTC are working. I'm wondering if there is something going on in preparation for the impacted channels move to the WTC. A week after the problem started, everything worked for a few days, stronger signal than usual, then went dark again.

Does anyone know when WNYW, CBS and WOR are planning to move to the WTC? I found a press release from last summer stating that WNYW would move at the beginning of the year, but nothing recent.


----------



## freetvforall

Yes, I am also having issues and they began on Monday, January 22 at around 11 a.m. I'm also in Brooklyn (11201) and came across this forum and your post while trying to find possible reasons for my loss of channels. As of this morning I only get 4.3, 4.4, 47 and one other Spanish channel. I have scanned and rescanned several times and a few times was able to get the ION channels (31.1, 2, 3, etc). Have not gotten any channels other than these since 1/22. I use a Mohu Leaf 30 and had been getting about 25 channels since August, no issues at all. 

Is it possible it could be tuner overload from the Ion stations coming to the WTC? There's also a very tall building being constructed in DUMBO. Is it possible that caused some interference? I saw some NYT articles from when the WTC was first built that reported on lots of reception issues for Manhattan residents at the time. I just want my free TV back! 



srm1964 said:


> Over the past two weeks, I have been having significant issues receiving CBS (2.1, 2.2), NBC (4.1, 4.2), WNYW (5.1, etc), WOR (9.1, etc) I am 11 miles from the ESB, roof mounted antenna 6 stories up, clear line of sight to the ESB / WTC. This setup has been in place for many years, nothing has changed on my end. Most days, these stations show absolutely no signal (0 on quality, 0 on strength). This started approximately 2 weeks ago. For a few days in the period, all of the channels started working again, with 100 quality / strength. I was able to pick up 9-4 Heroes during this period, which I've never received before.
> 
> I can receive WABC 7 (and subchannels), WPIX 11 (and subchannels), WNET (and subs) each VHF. I can receive NBC on 4.3 and 4.4 which come from the WTC (same line of sight from my location in Brooklyn).
> 
> I've looked at the RabbitEars graphs from Fairlawn NJ, which seem to indicate a relative strength around 65 and a relative signal around 70 on WNYW. I assume this means that WNYW is sending a signal, but I don't know if that means the Fairlawn location is receiving a usable signal. Fairlawn is estimated at 14 miles from the ESB, a greater relative distance than I am.
> 
> I've tried rescanning, but it doesn't help. I don't think that the RF channel has changed yet for these stations.
> 
> Anyone else having issues?


----------



## srm1964

freetvforall said:


> Yes, I am also having issues and they began on Monday, January 22 at around 11 a.m. I'm also in Brooklyn (11201) and came across this forum and your post while trying to find possible reasons for my loss of channels. As of this morning I only get 4.3, 4.4, 47 and one other Spanish channel. I have scanned and rescanned several times and a few times was able to get the ION channels (31.1, 2, 3, etc). Have not gotten any channels other than these since 1/22. I use a Mohu Leaf 30 and had been getting about 25 channels since August, no issues at all.
> 
> Is it possible it could be tuner overload from the Ion stations coming to the WTC? There's also a very tall building being constructed in DUMBO. Is it possible that caused some interference? I saw some NYT articles from when the WTC was first built that reported on lots of reception issues for Manhattan residents at the time. I just want my free TV back!


As of last night (1/30) at 11pm everything started working again with 100 signal strength. I think that rules out anything with cable / splitters, etc on my end. Most likely interference from someplace that has stopped for now. I notice that the rabbit ears graph for Fairlawn on WNYW has changed radically during this window. I doubt the interference is from a permanent structure like a building, that would not suddenly stop. Either an adjustment was made at the ESB or it's weather related and the weather pattern shifted. Or something else! But there is hope the interference won't last forever.

Update (1/31): By 2:30PM WNYW, etc were back to signal strength 0, gone again.


----------



## LenL

4.1 and 4.2 went dark for me last night so I assumed they were gone in favor of 4.3 and 4.4.

However they are back on the air today.

What the hell is going on?


----------



## stillonacrt

*Wnjn->wnjb*

Is WNJB particularly weak? (Dubious coverage mapping aside.) 

One source listed WNJB at 11.2 kW with the old WNJN at 200kW. Curious if VHF is directly comparable to UHF in this way. At the location of interest in Brooklyn, all antennas used to get WNJN (an ESB facing directional roof antenna, a multi-directional roof antenna, and even a (literal) rabbit ears (2nd Fl)).


----------



## EF9500

LenL said:


> 4.1 and 4.2 went dark for me last night so I assumed they were gone in favor of 4.3 and 4.4.
> 
> However they are back on the air today.
> 
> What the hell is going on?


Probably the beginning of the switch over.


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> Probably the beginning of the switch over.


Not yet!


----------



## Trip in VA

stillonacrt said:


> Is WNJB particularly weak? (Dubious coverage mapping aside.)
> 
> One source listed WNJB at 11.2 kW with the old WNJN at 200kW. Curious if VHF is directly comparable to UHF in this way. At the location of interest in Brooklyn, all antennas used to get WNJN (an ESB facing directional roof antenna, a multi-directional roof antenna, and even a (literal) rabbit ears (2nd Fl)).


You can't compare VHF and UHF that way. WNJB is actually at 40.82 kW, above the FCC's power limit of 30 kW (in this region). WNJN was at 200 kW, well below the FCC's 1000 kW limit. 

And yet WNJB is still hard to receive, which says something about VHF reception. Though I'm also not convinced that the transmitter site is in a terribly great location, either.

- Trip


----------



## stillonacrt

Trip in VA said:


> You can't compare VHF and UHF that way...I'm also not convinced that the transmitter site is in a terribly great location, either. - Trip


Thanks Trip. I see at rabbitears how WABC and WPIX are even lower in ERP. Well, when the weather is better for roof-antenna play, I'll have to see what can work. Looks like the transmitter is almost 100˚ off from ESB as seen from the receiving location, with a couple of fairly elevated points along the line of sight (at least 1Edge).


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> 4.1 and 4.2 went dark for me last night so I assumed they were gone in favor of 4.3 and 4.4.
> 
> However they are back on the air today.
> 
> What the hell is going on?


WNBC stated end of March, it's only February 1. Likely it was failover testing for the Super Bowl in a few days. The 2 biggest sporting events of the year occur over the next few weeks. Do you really think it's in anyone's best interest to shut WNBC-DT on 28 from ESB now??!!!?? 

Once the shut down does occur, 4.3 & 4.4 will be remapped to 4.1 & 4.2.




EF9500 said:


> Probably the beginning of the switch over.


No


----------



## EF9500

nyctveng said:


> WNBC stated end of March, it's only February 1. Likely it was failover testing for the Super Bowl in a few days. The 2 biggest sporting events of the year occur over the next few weeks. Do you really think it's in anyone's best interest to shut WNBC-DT on 28 from ESB now??!!!??
> 
> Once the shut down does occur, 4.3 & 4.4 will be remapped to 4.1 & 4.2.
> 
> 
> 
> No


I'm hoping once the switch over happens, they will bump up bandwidth on wnbc. Currently on 4.3 it's horrendous.


----------



## FrankH3rd

*Now you see it (VHF channels), now you don't*

For the last week or so, all the VHF channels on some of the tv's in my house have been randomly dropping out and then coming back in. I finally figured out why! And it wasn't what I originally thought.

Briefly, here's my setup. Located in Hillsborough NJ, about halfway between NYC and Philly. Two story colonial house. Two VHF/UHF suburban antennas in attic (one for each city), then thru combiner to basement via RG6 coax. Distribution amp in basement, then four way splitter to two tv's in basement, one tv in family room on first floor, and one Hauppauge WinTV dualHD tuner into the PC in my den on the first floor. Normally signals on all VHF and UHF channels from both cities are from moderate to strong, pictures on tv's great (except during thunderstorms). (NYC, 7, 11, 13: Philly 6, 12).

But for the last week or so, the VHF signals on the two basement tv's were dropping in and out, while the UHF channels were fine. Also, the VHF channels on the first floor tv were normal, good reception. Same for tuner on PC in first floor den. TSReader Lite indicated some minor continuity errors on one of the VHF channels, but reception was fine.
Since all four devices had a common feed, what was wiping out the VHF signal only on the two basement tv's?

Finally I recalled reading that LED bulbs could cause interference. I have several in the basement, in ceiling pull chain bulb outlets. So one by one I turned each off. On the last one the problem went away, VHF channels back to normal signal strength. Thought the problem was solved. Not so fast. I replaced the last LED bulb with an incandescent bulb, but the problem returned, no VHF signals. So can't be LED bulb if signal also vanishes with incandescent. Next step, I pulled the outlet itself, and there it was (see attached photo). The metal parts of the outlet had somehow deteriorated, had oxidized, and this was probably causing a low level of arcing, not enough to cause the bulb to flicker, but enough to interfere with the VHF channels. I replaced the bulb outlet with a new one, plugged the LED bulb back in, and VHF channels now working fine. 

So I guess it doesn't take much to wipe out a VHF signal, and cause may not be too obvious. In my case, I have a relatively straighforward situation, live in a single family house, neighbors not too close. But trouble shooting VHF signal problems in more dense living situations, such as in apartment buildings with uncooperative landlords and many neighbors, has to be a bear! Good luck to those posting here solving your intermittent signal VHF problems.


----------



## LenL

FrankH3rd,

Excellent recount of how you debugged your VHF reception issue and also why OTA should have given VHF the boot many years ago! VHF is simply way too finicky!


----------



## FrankH3rd

LenL said:


> FrankH3rd,
> 
> Excellent recount of how you debugged your VHF reception issue and also why OTA should have given VHF the boot many years ago! VHF is simply way too finicky!


Agree, great opportunity lost when they stayed on VHF after the digital conversion in 2009, UHF so much better, starting with the smaller size of the antennas. 

To make matters worse for me, I receive RF2 from Phily with display channels 2.1 ~ 2.5 (MeTV etc), RF3 from NYC with display channels 33.1 ~ 33.4 (MeTV etc), and RF4 from Atlantic City with display channels 4.1 ~ 4.7 (WACP crappy sales channels). This totally confuses two of my tv's since RF33 displays channels 2.1 & 2.2; and RF28 displays 4.1 & 4.2 (at least that one is going away soon,but maybe it isn't). It's always a surprise what pops up when I tune to 2.1 (sometimes I get WCBS, but other time MeTV; when I tune 4.1, sometimes I get WNBC, but other times WACP; and when I tune to 33.1, sometimes I get WCBS, but other times MeTV, but if the latter then I don't know if it is coming from NYC or Phily. Love it!


----------



## LenL

Just wanted to post a link to a nice video on TV reception.


----------



## KEVINL71

Simple and to the point. I love how he more or less disses that "Clear TV" indoor antenna. Unless you're standing next to the transmission towers, I can't possibly see how something flimsy like that would work. The infomercial they run for it is total B.S. Sad to the point they have put on a disclaimer "DOES NOT RECEIVE CABLE TV CHANNELS". Some people seeing the ad are just that stupid, I guess! 

Any update on the WNBC-TV move to the current World Trade Center tower? I recorded _Super Bowl LII_ from there this past week. Still saw the same dual ID pop up on the screen. Of course, our reception is with Frontier, as we're in Berlin, CT (southern Hartford County). The relative's package includes channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and (I think) the now-former PBS channel 50 from Montclair, NJ. All in HD with no blackouts either!


----------



## speedlaw

EF9500 said:


> I'm hoping once the switch over happens, they will bump up bandwidth on wnbc. Currently on 4.3 it's horrendous.


Agreed. Watching 4.1 v 4.3 OTA on a plasma set you can see a difference. Of course, I still miss the full HDTV signal which no one transmits anymore. In the early days, NJN TV would broadcast a reel that some engineer took walking down the Boardwalk on a sunny shore day, and it was just amazing. No one transmits that full bandwidth signal anymore.....but it was glorious. Sad that the corporate weasels who killed FM radio found a home in TV.

Of course, it is still miles further than what passed for TV in the NTSC days....although I miss sometimes getting the whole Philadelphia market at my place 40 miles north of NY when the conditions were right.


----------



## speedlaw

KEVINL71 said:


> Simple and to the point. I love how he more or less disses that "Clear TV" indoor antenna. Unless you're standing next to the transmission towers, I can't possibly see how something flimsy like that would work. The infomercial they run for it is total B.S. Sad to the point they have put on a disclaimer "DOES NOT RECEIVE CABLE TV CHANNELS". Some people seeing the ad are just that stupid, I guess!
> 
> Any update on the WNBC-TV move to the current World Trade Center tower? I recorded _Super Bowl LII_ from there this past week. Still saw the same dual ID pop up on the screen. Of course, our reception is with Frontier, as we're in Berlin, CT (southern Hartford County). The relative's package includes channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and (I think) the now-former PBS channel 50 from Montclair, NJ. All in HD with no blackouts either!


No one knows anything about tech...sadly. I have explained to folks that your cell phone is just a glorified walkie talkie...smart folk have argued with me that being closer to the cell means you'll get better reception, where I argue that being higher up will get you better cell....yeesh


----------



## nyctveng

speedlaw said:


> , where I argue that being higher up will get you better cell....yeesh


no


----------



## Aero 1

So i decided to redo my OTA viewing equipment and got rid of my Tivo's and went with HDHomeruns and apple tv's and its working perfectly. I decided to also setup OTA viewing on my main and bedroom tv's but i noticed that PSIP is non existent. on both TV's i only get PSIP data for NBC and CBS. anyone else? PSIP gone from NYC? thanks.


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> So i decided to redo my OTA viewing equipment and got rid of my Tivo's and went with HDHomeruns and apple tv's and its working perfectly. I decided to also setup OTA viewing on my main and bedroom tv's but i noticed that PSIP is non existent. on both TV's i only get PSIP data for NBC and CBS. anyone else? PSIP gone from NYC? thanks.


I use a DVR+ and get the guide from the internet. So I can't help you. When I was using PSIP I found that most NYC channels gave only 12 hours. Only a few were really interested in providing more than that. So I found PSIP a terrible way to go. Useable only if that is the only option. With the DVR+ I could use PSIP or get 14 days from the internet. It was a no brainer which way to go. Sometimes it takes a few hours or days for PSIP to populate.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> I use a DVR+ and get the guide from the internet. So I can't help you. When I was using PSIP I found that most NYC channels gave only 12 hours. Only a few were really interested in providing more than that. So I found PSIP a terrible way to go. Useable only if that is the only option. With the DVR+ I could use PSIP or get 14 days from the internet. It was a no brainer which way to go. Sometimes it takes a few hours or days for PSIP to populate.


It was more of a curious question as i did it about a week ago and i dont care about psip. ill never watch ota on the tv's, and if ever the time comes, ill just use my phone for the guide. ill watch and record it on the apple tv's which have guide data for weeks.


----------



## speedlaw

nyctveng said:


> no


My experience as a ham radio operator on VHF would disagree. A clean 90 mile path with a 5 watt radio mountaintopping..line of sight is all


----------



## speedlaw

LenL said:


> I use a DVR+ and get the guide from the internet. So I can't help you. When I was using PSIP I found that most NYC channels gave only 12 hours. Only a few were really interested in providing more than that. So I found PSIP a terrible way to go. Useable only if that is the only option. With the DVR+ I could use PSIP or get 14 days from the internet. It was a no brainer which way to go. Sometimes it takes a few hours or days for PSIP to populate.



I use the internet guide on my DVR+ as well. There are a few subchannels that don't quite map perfectly even there, so I use "time and channel" for two broadcasts. Overall the DVR+ is 85% of my Tivo but for way less $, although my lifetime Tivo has turned out to be a great investment, factoring in cable fees I didn't pay before I cut the cord.


----------



## Trip in VA

speedlaw said:


> My experience as a ham radio operator on VHF would disagree. A clean 90 mile path with a 5 watt radio mountaintopping..line of sight is all


If there were only one cell antenna on top of a mountain, you'd be right.

However, cell towers are scattered all over the place and are optimized to send and receive best within their sectors without causing interference to neighboring sectors. They frequently use mechanical and electrical tilt to put the best signal relatively close in. Adding height on the user equipment end of things may very easily place you above the main lobe of the antenna's elevation pattern, or could lead to you having visibility to multiple cells at the same time. Either of those could lead to poor performance.

- Trip


----------



## speedlaw

Good point, hadn't thought of the precise beam forming in use. Thanks !

Off topic to this thread, I am always entertained though when I fire up my little Yaesu radio after a hike up a hill, and make a pileup on .520.


----------



## LenL

The latest news on 1WTC I could find:

http://www.broadcastbeat.com/broadc...trade-center-with-rohde-schwarz-transmitters/


----------



## rothe

LenL said:


> The latest news on 1WTC I could find:
> 
> http://www.broadcastbeat.com/broadc...trade-center-with-rohde-schwarz-transmitters/


From Len's link:



> The total output power of the transmitter is 106kW, and beyond the energy efficiency, the transmitter dissipates minimal heat load into the Broadcast Center because of its 100 percent liquid cooled design.


I've built a few PCs, and played with different cooling solutions, but I've gotta wonder what kind of liquid cooling rig does it take to cool a 106kW circuit? That's awesome!


----------



## jchtrout1

Does anyone have a list of the stations that are moving to the WTC along with their new channel assignments if that applies and dates of the move ?
I maintain a MATV system up here in Ct and my basic lineup consists of all NYC, L.I. and Ct. broadcast stations.
Sure will save me some hunting and pecking.
Very much appreciated.
Jeff


----------



## LenL

jchtrout1 said:


> Does anyone have a list of the stations that are moving to the WTC along with their new channel assignments if that applies and dates of the move ?
> I maintain a MATV system up here in Ct and my basic lineup consists of all NYC, L.I. and Ct. broadcast stations.
> Sure will save me some hunting and pecking.
> Very much appreciated.
> Jeff


Unfortunately neither the ESB or 1WTC websites have any up to date information as to who is broadcasting where and when. Even Trip (Rabbit Ears)has not updated his site with this information. You basically have to try and figure it out from press releases. Some of the posts on this forum will help you out if you are patient enough to search through them.

One of the other forum members may reply with what you want. I have been looking for the same information. I know a few stations are at 1WTC but I have not seen any improved reception and so am not sure if they are in their final broadcasting configuration in terms of power etc. However I have not made any antenna adjustments either which I'm holding off until the weather gets better and the moves are final.


----------



## bobbino421

I?m having a hard time picking up WPIX 11 with a small HD flat indoor antenna from monoprice TVs is in my bedroom and living room, and I?m in queens. Is this channel give anyone else problems? Wondering maybe I should get a better antenna?


----------



## Trip in VA

WNJU (and WNBC via channel sharing) and WPXN are already on 1WTC. WWOR and WNYW are supposed to be moving there in the next two weeks or so, I think. WNET and WCBS should soon follow. WLIW will move there when the repack occurs.

The post-repack channels on 1WTC will be as follows, with the dates marking the end of the transition period for those stations in parentheses:

WNET moves from 13 to 12 (5/1/20)
WWOR moves from 38 to 25 (3/5/18)
WNYW moves from 44 to 27 (8/2/19)
WLIW moves from 21 to 32 (8/2/19)
WPXN moves from 31 to 34 (8/2/19)
WNJU moves from 36 to 35 (8/2/19)
WCBS moves from 33 to 36 (8/2/19)

In addition, WJLP and WMBC have requested permission to move to 1WTC but those stations are not repacked and the applications have yet to be approved.

- Trip


----------



## dstoffa

bobbino421 said:


> I?m having a hard time picking up WPIX 11 with a small HD flat indoor antenna from monoprice TVs is in my bedroom and living room, and I?m in queens. Is this channel give anyone else problems? Wondering maybe I should get a better antenna?


How is your reception of WABC Channel 7 and WNET Channel 13? These three (with WPIX) are VHF-Hi stations and require the proper antenna. (WJLP / MeTV is VHF-Lo, and requires yet a different antenna)


----------



## bobbino421

dstoffa said:


> bobbino421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I?m having a hard time picking up WPIX 11 with a small HD flat indoor antenna from monoprice TVs is in my bedroom and living room, and I?m in queens. Is this channel give anyone else problems? Wondering maybe I should get a better antenna?
> 
> 
> 
> How is your reception of WABC Channel 7 and WNET Channel 13? These three (with WPIX) are VHF-Hi stations and require the proper antenna. (WJLP / MeTV is VHF-Lo, and requires yet a different antenna)
Click to expand...

I have difficulty with those also. I can get ABC 7 most of the time when I auto program channels but never all 3 at once. Do you recommend an indoor antenna? I only need it for my bedroom. I have Fios in my living room and don?t want to get another set top box. Trying to keep my cable bill down.


----------



## Aero 1

bobbino421 said:


> I have difficulty with those also. I can get ABC 7 most of the time when I auto program channels but never all 3 at once. Do you recommend an indoor antenna? I only need it for my bedroom. I have Fios in my living room and don?t want to get another set top box. Trying to keep my cable bill down.


Then you don’t need an antenna, Fios also passes the local channels via clear qam. 

Connect the fios coax straight to the tv, do a cable channel scan. You should see all the locals on the tv without a cable box.


----------



## bobbino421

Aero 1 said:


> bobbino421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have difficulty with those also. I can get ABC 7 most of the time when I auto program channels but never all 3 at once. Do you recommend an indoor antenna? I only need it for my bedroom. I have Fios in my living room and don?t want to get another set top box. Trying to keep my cable bill down.
> 
> 
> 
> Then you don?t need an antenna, Fios also passes the local channels via clear qam.
> 
> Connect the fios coax straight to the tv, do a cable channel scan. You should see all the locals on the tv without a cable box.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks I?ll try that.


----------



## srm1964

As mentioned in an earlier post, in mid-January several ESB based stations (2.x, 4.x, 5.x, 9.x) suddenly dropped. I am about 10 miles from the ESB using an outdoor antenna, 6 stories up, clear line of sight.

I have added a Winegard LNA-100 indoor amplifier and it has made a world of difference. All of the missing channels are now restored with the exception of the WOR stations (5.3, 9.1, 9.3 and 9.4). Hopefully these will return with the move the the WTC.


----------



## LenL

I wrote to NJ PBS complaining about the decision to remove NJTV from the air waves and broadcast only 8.1 to N. Jersey from their Basking Ridge location. After telling them that asking us to repoint our antennas to Basking Ridge I would lose 50 stations broadcasting from NY City what did they suggest? That I re aim my antenna! Talk about people that should be fired for being clueless!

They did say they got numerous complaints besides mine. However they do not understand that having NJTV broadcast from Montclair was probably for the very reason that people had their antennas aimed at the NY stations and would be able (like me) to get NJTV!

They have lost a big audience of OTA viewers and are too stupid to understand how antenna reception works!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> I wrote to NJ PBS complaining about the decision to remove NJTV from the air waves and broadcast only 8.1 to N. Jersey from their Basking Ridge location. After telling them that asking us to repoint our antennas to Basking Ridge I would lose 50 stations broadcasting from NY City what did they suggest? That I re aim my antenna! Talk about people that should be fired for being clueless!
> 
> They did say they got numerous complaints besides mine. However they do not understand that having NJTV broadcast from Montclair was probably for the very reason that people had their antennas aimed at the NY stations and would be able (like me) to get NJTV!
> 
> They have lost a big audience of OTA viewers and are too stupid to understand how antenna reception works!


They couldn't care less.

They took the money and ran!!!!!

And this is a "public" television network.

Hah!


----------



## EF9500

Wwor was broadcasting last night to rescan on the 5th. Is this just a channel change? Or also move to wtc?


----------



## Aero 1

My 9 is now telling people to rescan on March 5th at noon with a scroll. saw it last night and it points here: http://www.my9nj.com/news/rescan-your-tv-to-see-my9#/


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> Wwor was broadcasting last night to rescan on the 5th. Is this just a channel change? Or also move to wtc?


It's both.

WWOR will need a rescan - it will be moving to Channel 25 and at that time, it will also be transmitting from 1WTC.


----------



## reddice

SnellKrell said:


> It's both.
> 
> WWOR will need a rescan - it will be moving to Channel 25 and at that time, it will also be transmitting from 1WTC.


Great. Still don't understand why WWOR and WNYW could not share channel 25 as they are both in 720p and one of them already broadcasts in SD there other sub channel. I think channel 27 could have went to another network like WPIX which is bad on RF 11.

Also is there already a channel on RF 25 and is WNYE on RF 24 affected, what happens to that?


----------



## LenL

Reddice,

A lot of what went on over the years makes NO sense! Well I guess to Trip and others at the FCC it does. 

OTA should never have been split between UHF and VHF to begin with given the need for 2 different antennas! It should have been kept to UHF and one antenna design! Sell off VHF and be done with it!


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> I wrote to NJ PBS complaining about the decision to remove NJTV from the air waves and broadcast only 8.1 to N. Jersey from their Basking Ridge location. After telling them that asking us to repoint our antennas to Basking Ridge I would lose 50 stations broadcasting from NY City what did they suggest? That I re aim my antenna! Talk about people that should be fired for being clueless!
> 
> They did say they got numerous complaints besides mine. However they do not understand that having NJTV broadcast from Montclair was probably for the very reason that people had their antennas aimed at the NY stations and would be able (like me) to get NJTV!
> 
> They have lost a big audience of OTA viewers and are too stupid to understand how antenna reception works!


The people answering the phones and tell you to repoint your antennas likely have very little tech knowledge and don't even have OTA setups in their home. They're likely reading from a scripts that just reads re-point and re-scan

The people that made the decisions likely do have an understanding but it was a business decision. Sorry the quarter billion dollars received for WNJN is worth more than the viewers they lost that likely contributed little to no money anyway.


----------



## nyctveng

reddice said:


> Also is there already a channel on RF 25 and is WNYE on RF 24 affected, what happens to that?


There should be no impact at all to WNYE on 24. Trip, any word on what will happen to WASA on 25?


----------



## Trip in VA

They've filed nothing, so I assume WASA-LD just goes off the air for the time being. No idea whether or not it will return.

- Trip


----------



## EF9500

Well, it's March 5th, and wor still on 38, nothing on 25.


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> Well, it's March 5th, and wor still on 38, nothing on 25.


The station's PSA mentioned Noon.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> The station's PSA mentioned Noon.


Ok, thanks!


----------



## LenL

My 9 has moved. Anyone take a before and after look at signal strength and quality?

I did and the results are not good. Before the move a solid 72/100. After the move both strength and quality are taking wild swings. Strength varies between 45 and 55 and quality is all over the place too. Moving between 58 and 100. I hope this is just me and not for everyone. I also hope this is not indicative of the results we will get from all moves to 1WTC. A lot of folks were speculating reception would be better with moves to 1WTC. So far that is not proving to be true. At least for me.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> My 9 has moved. Anyone take a before and after look at signal strength and quality?
> 
> I did and the results are not good. Before the move a solid 72/100. After the move both strength and quality are taking wild swings. Strength varies between 45 and 55 and quality is all over the place too. Moving between 58 and 100. I hope this is just me and not for everyone. I also hope this is not indicative of the results we will get from all moves to 1WTC. A lot of folks were speculating reception would be better with moves to 1WTC. So far that is not proving to be true. At least for me.


At least you're getting something.

I have no signal on Channel 25!

What's very strange is that I was receiving a strong signal from WASA - LD this morning on Channel 25.

Had wondered what was going to happen once WWOR fired up.

There's obviously something very wrong.

Fox tested the signal just last week.


----------



## LenL

Rabbit Ears mobile seems to be doing OK with My9.

Perhaps they will fine tune it and get the wrinkles out. Then again maybe this is the best we will get from 1WTC.

So far I am not impressed with what is coming out from 1WTC.

Although I have to admit I have not played with my antenna orientation but given my location I should not have to. The ESB and 1WTC are not that far apart for me.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm wondering if WASA-LD is still on the air and is causing some of the poor signal issues. It was a very poor signal at my grandmother's house. LenL, did you previously receive WASA-LD?

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip,

I was getting WASA 24.1 and its sub channels but they were not rock solid and would break up. That was not a channel I really cared about or really watched at all.

Where was it broadcasting from?


----------



## reddice

I can get WWOR on RF25 WTC1 no problem but I never had issues getting anything from the old 1WTC either as I was able to see the towers from my roof and the new 1WTC I can still see from my roof.

So where is WASA? Is it gone.


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> Trip,
> 
> I was getting WASA 24.1 and its sub channels but they were not rock solid and would break up. That was not a channel I really cared about or really watched at all.
> 
> Where was it broadcasting from?


4 Times Sq


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> I'm wondering if WASA-LD is still on the air and is causing some of the poor signal issues. It was a very poor signal at my grandmother's house. LenL, did you previously receive WASA-LD?
> 
> - Trip


WASA shut down at about 11:55am today. 

For those that were able to receive it before, many tuners and converter boxes automatically remapped WASA and it's subchannels to 9.1 WWOR HD, 9.3 Buzzr, 5.3 WNYW SD probably due to the same PID/MPEG numbering scheme used by WASA and WWOR. A rescan needed to be performed to tune 9.4 H&I.


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> WASA shut down at about 11:55am today.
> 
> For those that were able to receive it before, many tuners and converter boxes automatically remapped WASA and it's subchannels to 9.1 WWOR HD, 9.3 Buzzr, 5.3 WNYW SD probably due to the same PID/MPEG numbering scheme used by WASA and WWOR. A rescan needed to be performed to tune 9.4 H&I.


No luck receiving WWOR!

Live on the upper east side.

Had no problem receiving WASA deom 4TS, but no WWOR.


----------



## FrankH3rd

LenL said:


> Rabbit Ears mobile seems to be doing OK with My9.
> 
> Perhaps they will fine tune it and get the wrinkles out. Then again maybe this is the best we will get from 1WTC.
> 
> So far I am not impressed with what is coming out from 1WTC.
> 
> Although I have to admit I have not played with my antenna orientation but given my location I should not have to. The ESB and 1WTC are not that far apart for me.


In Hillsborough NJ (Central NJ north of Princeton) RF 25 (9.1) seems solid enough. Didn't check it before the switch, but here is current comparison to other NYC channels using TSReader Lite:
RF 33 (2.1) signal 42
RF 28 (4.1) signal 38
RF 44 (5.1) signal 34
RF 7 (7.1) signal 36
RF 11 (11.1) signal 31
RF 13 (13.1) signal 30
RF 24 (25.1) signal 32
RF 25 (9.1) signal 30

Only OTA problem we have been having since Saturday is with RF33 (2.1): despite very strong signal, have been having frequent pixilation. and many TSReader continuity and TEI errors, never had this before. Possibly related to damage from high winds on Friday and Saturday??


----------



## stillonacrt

Been doing re-scans this evening for people who were shocked to have lost Buzzr 9.3 today. (Not sure why it seems these repack changes don't get bigger promotion.)

And now have to ask if anyone knows whether HSN2 from W41DO (v-ch 60 RF-ch 41) is still in operation? Noticed it seems to be transmitting a signal but no programming. (HSN2 is still listed on that station at the hsn.com website, and HSN on 31-6 is still active.) Didn't notice anything about W41DO at rabbitears, so may not (yet) be repack related?


----------



## SnellKrell

Finally, after walking my Silver Sensor antenna around my room, found a sweet spot where I can now receive WWOR on Channel 25
and other stations.

So far, for me at least, stations moving from ESB to 1WTC has not been a positive thing. Only WPXN's reception is on a par with when it
transmitted from ESB. My reception for WNJU/WNBC and now WWOR has suffered. Will keep my fingers crossed as we await WNYW, WCBS 
and WNET's moves.

Only WLIW moving to 1WTC will be a plus - have not been able to receive this station OTA in many years.


----------



## LenL

FrankH3rd said:


> In Hillsborough NJ (Central NJ north of Princeton) RF 25 (9.1) seems solid enough. Didn't check it before the switch, but here is current comparison to other NYC channels using TSReader Lite:
> RF 33 (2.1) signal 42
> RF 28 (4.1) signal 38
> RF 44 (5.1) signal 34
> RF 7 (7.1) signal 36
> RF 11 (11.1) signal 31
> RF 13 (13.1) signal 30
> RF 24 (25.1) signal 32
> RF 25 (9.1) signal 30
> 
> Only OTA problem we have been having since Saturday is with RF33 (2.1): despite very strong signal, have been having frequent pixilation. and many TSReader continuity and TEI errors, never had this before. Possibly related to damage from high winds on Friday and Saturday??


Frank,

What about WNJB 8.1. You know the NJ PBS flagship TV station? You are not showing it and they think everyone can receive it!


----------



## FrankH3rd

LenL said:


> Frank,
> 
> What about WNJB 8.1. You know the NJ PBS flagship TV station? You are not showing it and they think everyone can receive it!


Len, the WNJB antenna is located about 15 miles northeast of me in Warren, almost directly between me and NYC. Since I am so close to the antenna, and since my NYC directed attic antenna is already pointed nearly directly at it, TSReader light signal strength is 51 at my house. So I am located in an ideal location to receive WNJB along with the NYC stations. But anyone living to the north of Warren (which is probably half the people that live in New Jersey), will have difficulty receiving RF 8.1, and also the NYC stations, without using an antenna rotator.


----------



## reddice

nyctveng said:


> WASA shut down at about 11:55am today.


Absolute nothing about it online nothing. Really.


----------



## EF9500

Well wwor from wtc is excellent, just like all that have moved. 80 signal, and I am 60 miles east on li.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

This is my current list that I watch in 10016 murray hill as of MARCH 6 , 2018 6:35PM
CM4221-HD my ant on my balcony in a bucket on a pole 8 floors up

WCBS-HD CBS 2.1 = Current level = 87 to 89 | Peak level = 95
DECADES 2.2 = Current level = 87 to 89 | Peak level = 89
WNBC 4.1 = Current level = 79 to 81 | Peak level =85
COZI 4.2 = Current level = 79 to 81| Peak level = 81
WNYW FOX 5.1 = Current level = 71 to 75 | Peak level = 75
Movies! 5.2 = Current level = 71 to 75 | Peak level = 75
5.3 = Current level = 100 | Peak level = 100
LIGHT 5.4 = Current level = 73 to 75 | Peak level = 75
WABC 7.1 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 81
LivWell 7.2 = Current level = 78 to 81 | Peak level = 81
LAFF 7.3 = Current level = 78 to 81 | Peak level = 81
WPIX 11.1 = Current level = 81 - 85 | Peak level = 85
ANTENA 11.2 = Current level = 85 to 89 | Peak level = 89
ThisTV 11.3 = Current level = 85 | Peak level = 85
WNET 13.1 = Current level = 81 to 85 | Peak level = 85
WLIW 21.1 = Current level = 33 | Peak level = 35
CREAT 21.2 = Current level = 33 | Peak level = 35
WORLD 21.3 = Current level = 32 | Peak level = 34
WWOR-TV MY9 25.3 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 100
BRUZZR 25.5 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 100
HEROES 25.6 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 100
ION 31.1 = Current level = 73 to 78 | Peak level = 81
IONLIFE 31.3 = Current level = 75 | Peak level = 75
QVC 31.5 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 78
HSN 31.6 = Current level = 75 to 78 | Peak level = 78
METV 33.1 = Current level = 75 to 81 | Peak level = 81
GRIT 33.3 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 78
ESCAPE WJLP-WX 33.4 = Current level = 75 | Peak level = 78
Thunder 106.3 AUDIO FM 33.10 = Current level = 75 to 78 | Peak level = 78
B98.5 AUDIO FM 33.11 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 78
107.1 the Boss AUDIO FM 33.12 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 81
AUDIO FM 33.13 = Current level = 75 to 78 | Peak level = 78
Great Gold 1410 AM AUDIO 33.14 = Current level = 75 to 78 | Peak level = 78
BOUNCE 41.2 = Current level = 81 to 85 | Peak level = 85
JUSTICE 68.2 = Current level = 85 | Peak level = 85


----------



## adrman

I'm in the Village and seeing 9.2=WOR-SD, 25-1=NYLIFE, 25-2=NYGOV & 25.3=CUNY??
Edit: I should add that this is after a rescan.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

adrman said:


> I'm in the Village and seeing 9.2=WOR-SD, 25-1=NYLIFE, 25-2=NYGOV & 25.3=CUNY??
> Edit: I should add that this is after a rescan.



u need to rescan for the new my9 in the 2X block everything else is the same mostly.
tonight i will do a full report once the wife is a sleep with all the channels that i get here.
I will label them with all the info i can ENG/ESP/CHI


----------



## nyctveng

reddice said:


> Absolute nothing about it online nothing. Really.


I don't think Estrella cares much about the OTA channel as they got what they wanted which is cable carriage from the major operators in the area. I think they were getting payment for carriage of the chinese channels but the fees were unlikely enough to offset the cost of maintaining the transmitter facilities.


----------



## reddice

nyctveng said:


> I don't think Estrella cares much about the OTA channel as they got what they wanted which is cable carriage from the major operators in the area. I think they were getting payment for carriage of the chinese channels but the fees were unlikely enough to offset the cost of maintaining the transmitter facilities.


I doubt they got higher viewers but for anyone who watched that channel they could have informed you that it was going away.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

NBC is now telling people to rescan on APRIL 2 , 2018
they will be going to WTC1

http://www.nbcuniversal.com/press-r...na-viewers-reminded-rescan-televisions-secure
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/111669/wnbc-cozi-tv-ota-viewers-need-to-rescan


----------



## SnellKrell

p0tsm0ke said:


> NBC is now telling people to rescan on APRIL 2 , 2018
> they will be going to WTC1


The station is there already!

It is currently simulcasting on Channel 28 from the ESB and 36 from 1WTC.

On April 2, Channel 28 will go dark.


----------



## nyctveng

p0tsm0ke said:


> NBC is now telling people to rescan on APRIL 2 , 2018
> they will be going to WTC1
> 
> http://www.nbcuniversal.com/press-r...na-viewers-reminded-rescan-televisions-secure
> http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/111669/wnbc-cozi-tv-ota-viewers-need-to-rescan



These links say to rescan *BY* April 2, not *ON* April 2.


----------



## latke

rabbitears.info/tower.php?request=site&asrn=1263701

Saw this on rabbitears.info- it indicates WPIX and WABC at 1WTC- does this mean those stations will be moving there eventually?


----------



## criggs

Has anyone tried the Smartenna+ with the DVR+ in the NYC area? For those of you who have had problems with NYC reception with the DVR+, I'm trying to decide whether Channel Master's new Stream+ has superior reception to the DVR+ and therefore represents a solution to those reception problems. Alternately, since the DVR+ appears to be otherwise a superior product to the Stream+, might the reception solution instead be the Channel Master Smartenna+?


----------



## MikeTheEss

MikeTheEss said:


> NOOB!
> 
> I just got 64 here in western nassau/queens line.
> 
> Anyone have any developments on WLIW? I'm sort of in the boat of commenters on this WLIW comments page:
> 
> (First post can not post URL)
> 
> If I futz around with a cheapo bow-tie rabbit ears combo I can get a shaky WLIW signal. Perhaps a better indoor antenna to alternate with my new Winegard up on the chimney will fix the problem.
> 
> One Saturday morning I actually did get a crystal clear WPXU (channel 12) signal. Didn't last long though. Perhaps it was some kind of test signal.
> 
> I also lost WNYZ not long ago, not that I really miss it. My Winegard has no VHF-lo elements. Is it still out there?



I lost WLIW reception during the digital conversion back in 2009. 


I notice now on TVFool that WLIW no longer appears to be transmitting. 


If that is indeed the case, to me this raises an ethical question: Is it appropriate for a "public television" station to be accepting federal funds as such when in fact it is just another cable/satellite channel?


Is there, or should there be, some sort of requirement for "public television" to be accessible to the public over the airwaves?


----------



## Trip in VA

TVFool has been having database problems for some time. WLIW is still transmitting; I have data on it as recent as 8/20/17, and I captured that first hand.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

MikeTheEss said:


> I lost WLIW reception during the digital conversion back in 2009.
> 
> 
> I notice now on TVFool that WLIW no longer appears to be transmitting.
> 
> 
> If that is indeed the case, to me this raises an ethical question: Is it appropriate for a "public television" station to be accepting federal funds as such when in fact it is just another cable/satellite channel?
> 
> 
> Is there, or should there be, some sort of requirement for "public television" to be accessible to the public over the airwaves?


I've no knowledge that WLIW has stopped transmitting - I doubt this.

WLIW is scheduled to move its transmitter to !WTC 8/2/19 when it
will also change its channel to 32.


----------



## Trip in VA

So, apparently WCBS is now on 1WTC, based on the fact they filed a license to cover. No obvious change in strength at my grandmother's house. 

- Trip


----------



## criggs

Trip in VA said:


> So, apparently WCBS is now on 1WTC, based on the fact they filed a license to cover. No obvious change in strength at my grandmother's house.


Huge change in midtown Manhattan, I'm afraid. My DVR+ can no longer even pull it in.


----------



## LenL

Criggs,

I thought maybe it was the weather, snow on the ground or some other atmospherics as I too have had reception issues with CBS over the past week or more!

It was normally showing (using my DVR+) signal strength of 80 to 84% and quality of 100%.

Now the signal breaks up from time to time with strength and quality close to 50%!

Once again I have not changed my antenna aim but given how close the ESB and 1WTC are I would not think reception would be an issue for me.

When the weather is more conducive to outdoor work I will adjust the antenna and see what happens. Since there are broadcaster at both the ESB and 1WTC this presents a problem for antenna adjustment. Really have to find the middle ground as I can no longer point to one site or the other!


----------



## nyctveng

Same problem as 37 years ago!
https://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/14/arts/new-tv-transmitter-causing-reception-problems.html



LenL said:


> Since there are broadcaster at both the ESB and 1WTC this presents a problem for antenna adjustment. Really have to find the middle ground as I can no longer point to one site or the other!


----------



## LenL

NYVTVENG,

Great read! How the hell did you find that? 

Anyway it proves that history repeats itself! 

So much for all the positive posts on this forum about how things will be so much better when the broadcasters move to 1WTC! 

It seems the more things change with technology the worse reception gets! Murphy's law! ATSC 3.0 might really kill OTA the way things are proving to go backwards!

The more things are touted at making things better there is an inverse result proportional to the hype!


----------



## trailblazer

Trip in VA said:


> So, apparently WCBS is now on 1WTC, based on the fact they filed a license to cover. No obvious change in strength at my grandmother's house.
> 
> - Trip


I live in Jackson NJ and have my antenna pointed to Philadelphia because I get stronger signals from there instead of NYC. Since the stations have been migrating to 1 WTC, the signal is so much stronger and I am receiving them with the antenna still pointed to Philly. With the antenna in this direction, I am getting WCBS (2-1, 2-2), WNBC (4-4, 4-4) and WNJU (47-1, 47-2) at around 50% with some breakup. Once it gets warmer I will re-orient the antenna to NY to see how much better it can get.

Hopefully all the NYC stations move atop 1 WTC to improve signal quality.


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> Criggs,
> 
> I thought maybe it was the weather, snow on the ground or some other atmospherics as I too have had reception issues with CBS over the past week or more!
> 
> It was normally showing (using my DVR+) signal strength of 80 to 84% and quality of 100%.
> 
> Now the signal breaks up from time to time with strength and quality close to 50%!
> 
> Once again I have not changed my antenna aim but given how close the ESB and 1WTC are I would not think reception would be an issue for me.
> 
> When the weather is more conducive to outdoor work I will adjust the antenna and see what happens. Since there are broadcaster at both the ESB and 1WTC this presents a problem for antenna adjustment. Really have to find the middle ground as I can no longer point to one site or the other!


Guys, I have had problems with CBS dropping out whenever there is bad weather (rain or snow) for at least a year now, probably longer. I think it is reduced signal strength by CBS. I have no idea how much the move from ESB to 1WTC is going to effect me. They are both due South of me with the ESB about 30 miles and 1WTC about 35 miles. Does anyone know if a rescan is needed for CBS? I plan to do the rescan for NBC on my 3 TV's and 3 DVR's in late March and hope I do not have to repeat it anytime soon after that. I feel really sorry for the folks in NYC where the continuous desire to go up with new taller buildings is killing reception for a lot of OTA folks.


----------



## EF9500

I lost CBS too. All other channels from wtc are booming strong. Wtf?


----------



## ALP

EF9500 said:


> I lost CBS too. All other channels from wtc are booming strong. Wtf?


Where are you located? I agree it does seem strange that all other channels are fine except CBS.


----------



## EF9500

ALP said:


> Where are you located? I agree it does seem strange that all other channels are fine except CBS.


Central long island


----------



## mets18

criggs said:


> Huge change in midtown Manhattan, I'm afraid. My DVR+ can no longer even pull it in.


Lost it in midtown as well. Lousy timing with March Madness starting today.


----------



## ALP

EF9500 said:


> Central long island


CBS has a "sister" staton somewhere out on the island. Can you receive it?


----------



## EF9500

ALP said:


> CBS has a "sister" staton somewhere out on the island. Can you receive it?


Yes, not great though. Why all the problems though??


----------



## Aero 1

I havent touched my 3 antennas in 10 years and they are still pointing towards ESB and i have had no problem with reception. With all the moves and what not, here is what i currently get signal wise:


----------



## ALP

EF9500 said:


> Yes, not great though. Why all the problems though??


From where you are the move from the ESB to 1WTC could require a slight realignment of your antenna. Try that when the weather improves.


----------



## EF9500

ALP said:


> From where you are the move from the ESB to 1WTC could require a slight realignment of your antenna. Try that when the weather improves.


Strange, all the other stations from wtc are strong.


----------



## nyctveng

mets18 said:


> Lost it in midtown as well. Lousy timing with March Madness starting today.


That sucks :-(


Based on the timing, it's likely they moved to WTC in time for March Madness as the WTC should have better coverage...at least outside of Manhattan


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> That sucks :-(
> 
> 
> Based on the timing, it's likely they moved to WTC in time for March Madness as the WTC should have better coverage...at least outside of Manhattan


One of the few times when getting "high" is a downer!


----------



## NYYANKEE

EF9500 said:


> I lost CBS too. All other channels from wtc are booming strong. Wtf?


This is very interesting as I have been trying to find out what happened.
On March 5th I was receiving WCBS 2.1 and 2.2 very well in lower Manhattan (The west Village using a Mohu Curve 50).
On March 6th.... FORGET IT!
On March 13th at around 5 PM I stared getting someway of a signal. I needed to preposition my Curve 50.
Seems that its a constant game of where is the sweet spot.
Is this due to 2 signals from WTC as well as ESB?

Even channel 4 has it's ups and downs.
For some reason channel 7 is doing better.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

I just did a rescan and i posted all my channels. the ones that have levels are the ones i watch and the ones that do not have levels i do not have on my channel list as i do not watch them. I posted them so everyone can see what i get in my area of 10016 @ 10:16PM MARCH 16 , I just updated some levels

WCBS-HD CBS 2.1 = Current level = 87 to 89 | Peak level = 95
DECADES 2.2 = Current level = 87 to 89 | Peak level = 89
WNBC-HD 4.1 = Current level = 79 to 81 | Peak level =85
COZI 4.2 = Current level = 79 to 81| Peak level = 81
WNBC-SD 4.3
COZI 4.4
WNYW-HD FOX 5.1 = Current level = 71 to 75 | Peak level = 75
Movies! 5.2 = Current level = 71 to 75 | Peak level = 75
WNYW-SD FOX 5.3 = Current level = 100 | Peak level = 100
LIGHT 5.4 = Current level = 73 to 75 | Peak level = 75
WABC 7.1 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 81
LivWell 7.2 = Current level = 78 to 81 | Peak level = 81
LAFF 7.3 = Current level = 78 to 81 | Peak level = 81
WWOR-TV HD MY9 9.1 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 100
WWOR-TV SD MY9 9.2
BRUZZR 9.3 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 100
HEROES 9.4 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 100
WPIX 11.1 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 99
ANTENA 11.2 = Current level95 | Peak level = 89
TBD 11.4
WPXU-LD 12.1
WNET-HD 13.1 = Current level = 85 to 89 | Peak level = 89
13.2 KIDS 13.2 = Current level = 85 to 89 | Peak level = 89
WLIW HD 21.1 = Current level = 36 | Peak level = 39
CREAT 21.2 = Current level = 38 | Peak level = 39
WORLD 21.3 = Current level = 38 | Peak level = 39
TCN 23.1
SSN 23.2
SONLIFE 23.3
NYLIFE 25.1
NYGOV 25.2
CUNY 25.3
ION 31.1 = Current level = 73 to 78 | Peak level = 81
QUBO 31.2
IONLIFE 31.3 = Current level = 75 | Peak level = 75
SHOP 31.4
QVC 31.5 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 78
HSN 31.6 = Current level = 75 to 78 | Peak level = 78
METV 33.1 = Current level = 75 to 81 | Peak level = 81
LAFF 33.2 = Current level = 78 to 81 | Peak level = 81
GRIT 33.3 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 78
ESCAPE 33.4 = Current level = 75 | Peak level = 78
WJLP-WX 33.10 = Current level = 75 to 78 | Peak level = 78
Thunder 106.3 AUDIO FM 33.11 = Current level = 75 to 78 | Peak level = 78
B98.5 AUDIO FM 33.12 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 78
107.1 the Boss AUDIO FM 33.13 = Current level = 78 | Peak level = 81
Great Gold 1410 AM AUDIO 33.14 = Current level = 75 to 78 | Peak level = 78
WNYN 39.1
WXTV-DT 41.1
BOUNCE 41.2 = Current level = 85 to 89 | Peak level = 89
WKOB-LD 42.1
DAYSTAR 42.2
WKOB-LD 42.3
WKOB-LD 42.4
SONLIFE 42.5
JEWELRY 42.6
SHOPLC 42.7
ONTV4U 42.8
WZME 43.1 - shows no signal and then now tuning over and over
CNCW 43.2 - shows no signal and then now tuning over and over
WNJU-HD 47.1
TELEX 47.2
WEDW-1 49.1
WEDW-3 49.3
TBN 54.1
HILSONG 54.2
ENLACE 54.3
SALSA 54.4
HSN2-SD W41DO-D 60.1 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 99
HSN2-HD 60.2 = Current level = 95 | Peak level = 99
WMBC-HD 63.1 = Current level = 90 | Peak level = 90
CGN-TV 63.2
SINO 63.3
NTDTV 63.5
ALIENTO 63.7
WDNJ 63.8 - AUDIO ONLY
KCBN 63.9 - AUDIO ONLY
WEDY-1 65.1 - shows no signal and then now tuning over and over
WEDY-3 65.3 - shows no signal and then now tuning over and over
WFUT-DT 68.1
JUSTICE 68.2 = Current level = 85 | Peak level = 89
GETTV 68.3 = Current level = 85 | Peak level = 89


----------



## LenL

Potsmoke,

Next time you do this please OMIT the sub channels! It is not necessary! They are the same as the main channel in terms of broadcasting signal.


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> Potsmoke, Next time you do this please OMIT the sub channels! It is not necessary! They are the same as the main channel in terms of broadcasting signal.


Um, not necessarily. For example, 9.2 comes from a different RF channel, 44, than 9.1, .3 and .4, 25. Some of these patterns are quite unpredictable. Don't forget also that some have reported discrepancies between two different subs on the same frequency which some have theorized may have to do with the station assigning different power levels to their subs, though some have pooh-poohed that theory.


----------



## Trip in VA

criggs said:


> Um, not necessarily. For example, 9.2 comes from a different RF channel, 44, than 9.1, .3 and .4, 25. Some of these patterns are quite unpredictable.


And yet if a list contains 5.1 and 9.1, you will have all the same information that you would have from all the different subchannels. So it's completely wasteful to repeat.



criggs said:


> Don't forget also that some have reported discrepancies between two different subs on the same frequency which some have theorized may have to do with the station assigning different power levels to their subs, though some have pooh-poohed that theory.


Completely 100% impossible.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Criggs,

I agree with Trip on all his comments.

There may be apparent discrepancies between subs but that is because the reception results change second by second. The environment is NOT static.


----------



## nyctveng

criggs said:


> Um, not necessarily. For example, 9.2 comes from a different RF channel, 44, than 9.1, .3 and .4, 25. Some of these patterns are quite unpredictable. Don't forget also that some have reported discrepancies between two different subs on the same frequency which some have theorized may have to do with the station assigning different power levels to their subs, though some have pooh-poohed that theory.


It is only necessary to post the main channel say 68 WFUT then it is understood to include 68.1 as well as 41.1 & 41.2
Stations assign different bit rates to each network so dot 1 primary may be 12 meg while subs dot 2 & 3 may be 2 meg. Generally the higher the bit rate, the better the picture quality.

RF levels are the SAME ON ALL channels associated with the main channel. The tuners tune the entire 19.4meg 8vsb channel and then decodes the channel you select. It is absolutely impossible to have varying levels between primary and subchannels PERIOD!!!


----------



## criggs

Trip in VA said:


> And yet if a list contains 5.1 and 9.1, you will have all the same information that you would have from all the different subchannels. So it's completely wasteful to repeat.


Gotta disagree again. Suppose one is someone who likes to watch 9.2 regularly but never watches 5.1. In that case, one is interested in 9.2's reception but has no interest in 5.1. One might not even know the two are connected. In that situation, information regarding 9.2 is still relevant.

More info is always better than less info.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

i was just posting all the channels that i get in my zip code with my ant. some people might not know they can get the channels until they see this who knows


----------



## nyctveng

p0tsm0ke said:


> i was just posting all the channels that i get in my zip code with my ant. some people might not know they can get the channels until they see this who knows


OK list the subchannels with their associated primary but no need to list levels of subchannels


----------



## EF9500

So apparently the issue with CBS was on my end. Getting 90%, strong like all that have moved to wtc.


----------



## dstoffa

EF9500 said:


> So apparently the issue with CBS was on my end. Getting 90%, strong like all that have moved to wtc.


Care to share that the problem (and the solution) was?

My reception of WWOR has hit the skids (strength oscialates between 20 and 95 percent, so I think it is some type of interference, but can't locate / figure it out) since the move to WTC, but everything else is 100%. My reception of WNYE-TV on RF-24 is perfect. Is this co-channel interference?


----------



## criggs

dstoffa said:


> My reception of WWOR has hit the skids (strength oscialates between 20 and 95 percent, so I think it is some type of interference, but can't locate / figure it out) since the move to WTC


Mine is doing the same thing on my DVR+ (and my Vizio TV reception is pretty poor as well). In fact, I can't even get the DVR+ to add 9 to the channels, even when I specifically manually scan for it -- assuming I have WWOR's RF frequency correct; it shows up all over the place when I google; some sites say it's at 34, some say it's at 38, I spoke to an intern at the station who claims it's 25, etc. etc. What I see with 25, during the scan, is the signal strength cleanly and abruptly oscillating every half second from 0 to 52 signal strength, and it doesn't stay there long enough for the DVR+ to grab hold of and add the channel. I see nothing on 34 or 38.


----------



## LenL

Criggs,

What antenna are you using? You are in NY City?


----------



## Trip in VA

It's on 25.

- Trip


----------



## dstoffa

criggs said:


> Mine is doing the same thing on my DVR+ (and my Vizio TV reception is pretty poor as well). In fact, I can't even get the DVR+ to add 9 to the channels, even when I specifically manually scan for it -- assuming I have WWOR's RF frequency correct; it shows up all over the place when I google; some sites say it's at 34, some say it's at 38, I spoke to an intern at the station who claims it's 25, etc. etc. What I see with 25, during the scan, is the signal strength cleanly and abruptly oscillating every half second from 0 to 52 signal strength, and it doesn't stay there long enough for the DVR+ to grab hold of and add the channel. I see nothing on 34 or 38.


WWOR (9) is on RF-25
WNYE (25) is on RF-24

I get WNYE perfect, no issues. I have a VHF/UHF antenna on a chimney mount in SW Nassau County, near JFK. Must be 20+ ft above the street... 

Shouldn't there be some spectrum separation when two stations are broadcasting in the same market?


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> Criggs,
> What antenna are you using? You are in NY City?


I'm using the Mohu Leaf. I'm in NY City, East 50s, 27th floor, Eastern exposure.


----------



## ALP

EF9500 said:


> So apparently the issue with CBS was on my end. Getting 90%, strong like all that have moved to wtc.


Would love to hear how you solved your CBS reception problems since I have problems with CBS too.


----------



## nyctveng

dstoffa said:


> Shouldn't there be some spectrum separation when two stations are broadcasting in the same market?


Not for digital. We've had adjacent channels in the market for a while. Here's an example though some do not exist anymore or will be gone soon.

28 WNBC, 29 WNYJ, 30 WFUT, 31 WPXN, 32 WXNY, 33 WCBS, 34 WPXO, 35 WNYX, 36 WNJU,


----------



## nyctveng

reddice said:


> Absolute nothing about it online nothing. Really.


It looks like WASA will not be coming back, at least no where near the coverage they had before. Sinovision chinese which was a subchannel has moved back to WMBC 63.3


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WNDT returns to the NYC Metro Area Television Dial... Sort Of*

What is over 47 years old is new again! Once WEBR-CD Manhattan returns to the airwaves as a shared video service over host television station WNET Newark at which time the PBS New York City market affiliate signs on it's new transmitter at 1 World Trade Center, it will do so with a new call-sign: WNDT-CD. The call-sign was last seen and used in this market on VHF Channel 13 between September 16, 1962 when venerable newsman Edward R. Murrow blessed the new endeavor, then called New Dimensions in Television, until September 30, 1970, the last full day in which the call-sign would be attached to the station. On October 1, 1970, the call-sign was changed to the present-day WNET when its then owners, The Ford Foundation, elected to merge with the federal government's newly created Public Broadcasting Service (PBS).

Effective March 15, 2018, the WEBR-CD call-sign was changed to WNCT-CD, presumably mistakenly. Ultimately, the call-sign was changed on March 22, 2018 to WNDT-CD. The station is presently off-the-air per a granted authorization to remain silent pending the relocation of its primary broadcast facilities from the Empire State Building at 350 5th Ave., Manhattan, New York to 1 World Trade Center, Manhattan, New York.

One can only speculate whether this video will turn out to be the new WNDT logo :


----------



## criggs

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> What is over 47 years old is new again! Once WEBR-CD Manhattan returns to the airwaves as a shared video service over host television station WNET Newark at which time the PBS New York City market affiliate signs on it's new transmitter at 1 World Trade Center, it will do so with a new call-sign: WNDT-CD...On October 1, 1970, the call-sign was changed to the present-day WNET...The station is presently off-the-air per a granted authorization to remain silent pending the relocation of its primary broadcast facilities from the Empire State Building at 350 5th Ave., Manhattan, New York to 1 World Trade Center, Manhattan, New York.


Whoa, whoa! Does this mean that Channel 13's transmitter on the Empire State Building will go silent in a few months, and I will only be able to pick up Channel 13 from the WTC?

This may be a serious problem for me. I lost Channel 2 a few weeks ago, and I believe it happened at the same time they switched from ESB to WTC. Right now, 13 is about the only channel I can pick up reliably on my DVR+. Am I about to lose my last stable station?


----------



## SnellKrell

criggs said:


> Whoa, whoa! Does this mean that Channel 13's transmitter on the Empire State Building will go silent in a few months, and I will only be able to pick up Channel 13 from the WTC?
> 
> This may be a serious problem for me. I lost Channel 2 a few weeks ago, and I believe it happened at the same time they switched from ESB to WTC. Right now, 13 is about the only channel I can pick up reliably on my DVR+. Am I about to lose my last stable station?


Yes, and it may be sooner than "a few months."

Not only that, there will be those 2 new "Guest" channels which will diminish the WNET's picture quality.

Some will argue that the viewer will never be able to tell the difference. There are those of us who will!


----------



## criggs

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, and it may be sooner than "a few months."
> 
> Not only that, there will be those 2 new "Guest" channels which will diminish the WNET's picture quality.
> 
> Some will argue that the viewer will never be able to tell the difference. There are those of us who will!


In other words, I'm going to have to buy PBS Passport. And I will have to give up on the Metropolitan Opera HD broadcasts in 1080, since the Met on Demand service, which has exclusive rights to them, and which forbids PBS from including them in the PBS Passport, only provides them in 720.

This sucks.

Controversy is raging over whether CM's new OTA/streaming doohinky, the Stream+, has a better tuner than the DVR+. Some claim it is definitely better, others claim it has the same multipath problem as the DVR+. But if the move destroys Channel 13 for me, I may have to buy the Stream+ after all (they say I can get a refund if it doesn't work out).

This double-sucks.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNET's reception from 1WTC is so dependent upon where you live.

More than likely, the closer you are to 1WTC the more problems you may have.

WCBS on 1WTC is transmitting from a height of 1726' Above Ground Level. When the station was coming from the ESB,
it's antenna was 1296' Above Ground Level.

WNET's antenna on 1WTC will be on a different and lower section of the mast than WCBS's. WNET's new Above Ground Level
height will be 1686' vs. its ESB height of 1322'.


----------



## criggs

SnellKrell said:


> WNET's reception from 1WTC is so dependent upon where you live.
> More than likely, the closer you are to 1WTC the more problems you may have.
> WCBS on 1WTC is transmitting from a height of 1726' Above Ground Level. When the station was coming from the ESB,
> it's antenna was 1296' Above Ground Level.
> WNET's antenna on 1WTC will be on a different and lower section of the mast than WCBS's. WNET's new Above Ground Level
> height will be 1686' vs. its ESB height of 1322'.


I'm in Midtown Manhattan, East 50's and my apartment faces SouthEast.

So I get good reception from a transmitter at 1322, and I get no reception from a transmitter at 1726. Since 13 is moving to 1686, I'd say I'm screwed.


----------



## SnellKrell

criggs said:


> I'm in Midtown Manhattan, East 50's and my apartment faces SouthEast.
> 
> So I get good reception from a transmitter at 1322, and I get no reception from a transmitter at 1726. Since 13 is moving to 1686, I'd say I'm screwed.


Not necessarily. There are so many factors that affect reception in midtown Manhattan, you never know!

And, to further complicate matters, come the beginning of August 2019, WNET will change its channel allocation to 12.

The station is scheduled to have some more power; and once again, things they are a changing.


----------



## EF9500

criggs said:


> I'm in Midtown Manhattan, East 50's and my apartment faces SouthEast.
> 
> So I get good reception from a transmitter at 1322, and I get no reception from a transmitter at 1726. Since 13 is moving to 1686, I'd say I'm screwed.


Vhf, completely different animal than uhf. You really won't know till they move. I have a vhf antenna 60 miles out....I have only a 3 foot area I pick up vhf. Anywhere else, zero signal. Vhf is an odd duck.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

SnellKrell said:


> The station is there already!
> 
> It is currently simulcasting on Channel 28 from the ESB and 36 from 1WTC.
> 
> On April 2, Channel 28 will go dark.


my NBC went away today i been scanning all month
4.X disappeared and then i just rescanned and it found 3 channels


WNBC 36.5
COZI-TV 36.6


----------



## SnellKrell

p0tsm0ke said:


> my NBC went away today i been scanning all month
> 4.X disappeared and then i just rescanned and it found 3 channels
> 
> 
> WNBC 36.5
> COZI-TV 36.6


Yes, the Empire State Building transmitter was shutdown at Noon today.

WNBC and Cozi will now only be transmitted from 1WTC using WNJU's facilities on Channel 36.


----------



## criggs

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, the Empire State Building transmitter was shutdown at Noon today.
> WNBC and Cozi will now only be transmitted from 1WTC using WNJU's facilities on Channel 36.


On my Vizio TV, I'm getting good signal from 36 on channels 4.3 and 4.4. So what's going to be on channels 4.1 and 4.2?


----------



## SnellKrell

criggs said:


> On my Vizio TV, I'm getting good signal from 36 on channels 4.3 and 4.4. So what's going to be on channels 4.1 and 4.2?


The PSIP should now show 4.1 - WNBC and 4.2 - Cozi.


----------



## criggs

SnellKrell said:


> The PSIP should now show 4.1 - WNBC and 4.2 - Cozi.


That's odd; I'm still getting 4.3 and 4.4. Shouldn't those have disappeared on me and moved to 4.1/4.2?


----------



## SnellKrell

criggs said:


> That's odd; I'm still getting 4.3 and 4.4. Shouldn't those have disappeared on me and moved to 4.1/4.2?


My TV showing the same - should have been changed with 28 going dark.


----------



## criggs

SnellKrell said:


> My TV showing the same - should have been changed with 28 going dark.


Well, I hope I don't regret it. I just changed all my NBC series programming on my DVR+ from 4.1 to 4.3. Here's hoping. Perhaps I'll be fine if I don't rescan.


----------



## nyctveng

criggs said:


> Well, I hope I don't regret it. I just changed all my NBC series programming on my DVR+ from 4.1 to 4.3. Here's hoping. Perhaps I'll be fine if I don't rescan.


Now that 4.1 & 4.2 are gone from 28, I'm sure sometime soon they will move 4.3 & 4.4 to 4.1 & 4.2 respectively.


----------



## FrankH3rd

nyctveng said:


> Now that 4.1 & 4.2 are gone from 28, I'm sure sometime soon they will move 4.3 & 4.4 to 4.1 & 4.2 respectively.


TSR lite shows 6 programs on RF 36:
1- WNBC 4.3
2- COZI-TV 4.4
3- WNJU_HD 47.1
4- TeleX 47.2
5- WNBC 4.1
6 COZI-TV 4.2

I'm confused??


----------



## criggs

nyctveng said:


> Now that 4.1 & 4.2 are gone from 28, I'm sure sometime soon they will move 4.3 & 4.4 to 4.1 & 4.2 respectively.


Well, I'm no expert on how this works, but it's occurred to me that perhaps, as long as I don't rescan, the channels will stay on 4.3 and 4.4. In other words, I'm theorizing that my TV and DVR+ have been instructed, from WAY back, to put those two digital channels from RF 36, namely WNBC and Cozi, on 4.3 and 4.4. So, as long as I don't rescan, those instructions will not be updated and I will continue to see those two channels on 4.3 and 4.4.


----------



## ALP

I too found 4.1 to be dark this afternoon and I re-scanned three TV's (Pioneer, Panasonic and Sharp) and three identical Magnovox DVR's. All three TV's found 4.1 after the re-scan. All three DVR's found 4.1 as well, however, when I punch in Channel 4 or 5 the DVR finds 4.3 or 5.3 and then if I use the down channel button I find 4.2, then 4.1 or 5.2 and then 5.1. I am not sure what this means. The strangest with Channel 5 was there before the re-scan, however, the re-scan caused Channel 4 to have the problem after the re-scan. I found that if I set the DVR for 5.1, it records 5.1 and all is well. I assume the same will work with setting the DVR for 4.1.

I also did a signal strength scan for 2,4,5,7,11 and 13. Channel 2 has about 75% to 80% of the signal strength of the other channels


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*NBC Cedes Legendary Status to CBS vis-a-vis WNBC New York Sign-Off*

A major event in television history occurred this afternoon, specifically Monday, April 2, 2018. Few people may have viewed it, but this afternoon at 12:00PM NOON, NBCUniversal directed their broadcast engineers to effectuate the final shutdown of the Empire State Building based transmitter which broadcasted the autonomous signal of WNBC New York to millions of New York City metropolitan area households. The station, formerly broadcast in Analog over VHF Channel 4 for most of its existence until June 26, 2009, was broadcasting a Digital signal over UHF Channel 28 and carrying two streams: The main stream over virtual channel 4-1 was the flagship station for the NBC Television Network, NBC 4 New York, and a second stream over virtual channel 4-2 was Cozi TV, a classic television themed diginet.

This stations history is impressive and too comprehensive to fully describe here. One element that must be noted, however, is that in its infancy, when it broadcasted over the now defunct channel 1 spectrum below the current VHF-Lo band, it was licensed as "experimental", and the science that was invested in the broadcast facility would provide the necessary foundation for NTSC commercial television broadcasting as we would enjoy and know it for many decades. And without that preliminary science, we very likely would not have the ATSC commercial television standard we all enjoy today.

The NYC market NBC affiliate began commercial broadcasting on July 1, 1941 at 1PM ET. or 1:30PM ET. as WNBT New York. The station changed its call-sign on October 18, 1954, to WRCA-TV (for NBC's then-parent company, Radio Corporation of America, or RCA) and on May 22, 1960, channel 4's call-sign was changed to WNBC-TV. Finally on June 1, 1992, channel 4 dropped the _-TV_ suffix from its call letters (following the sale in 1988 of its sister radio station WNBC, which is now WFAN, on 660 kHz) and became WNBC, with the new branding slogan "4 New York".

WNBC discontinued regular programming over its Analog signal over VHF channel 4 at 12:30PM on June 12, 2009 as part of the nation's transition from the NTSC to ATSC broadcasting standard. The station's Digital signal remained on its transition period UHF channel 28. As part of the Safer Act, WNBC kept its Analog signal on the air until June 26, 2009 to inform viewers of the Digital television transition.

All in all, this autonomous station, through its many incarnations, remained a continuous television presence serving the NYC market for 76 years, 9 months, and approximately 23 hours. Not shabby at all. And when reviewing the comprehensive milestones the station achieved both culturally and scientifically, it is an historic record that should be celebrated and revered with great pride.

The two streams formerly broadcast over UHF channel 28 have been airing as subchannels over WNJU Linden, UHF channel 36, the NYC area affiliate for the Telemundo network also owned by NBCUniversal. That station will eventually transition its signal to the World Trade Center and shift one channel lower to UHF channel 35. Several promos featuring WNBC news anchor David Ushery airing over WNBC prior to its final shut-down encouraged viewers to rescan their equipment in order to continue receiving WNBC programming over WNJU; However, those viewers will ultimately lose WNBC and Cozi TV programming once the streams move to channel 35 as WNBC has not yet advised its audience to rescan following that transition.

And so with today's move, CBS Broadcasting, Inc's WCBS-TV New York now holds the distinction as the oldest continuously operating commercial television station in the United States. That station signed on at 2:30PM ET. on July 1, 1941 as WCBW. The call-sign was changed to WCBS-TV on November 1, 1946, after the FCC allowed television stations owned by radio stations in the same city to use the same call-sign as the radio station with the suffix _-TV_. And WCBS-TV is the only station in the CBS-owned television network to have been built from the ground up by the network. CBS signed-off the VHF channel 2 signal after 8:00AM on July 13, 2009 per the nation's transition from the NTSC to ATSC broadcasting standard, over eight hours later than the FCC mandated, thus rendering WCBS-TV as the last full-power Analog television station to remain on the air following the 2009 digital transition, yet another impressive milestone for that TV station. Unlike NBC, whose corporation realized $214 million for relinquishing the UHF channel 28 spectrum, CBS will not sacrifice the WCBS-TV license and signal to "guest" status on another stations' subchannels.

I have attached two pictures of the final image broadcast over WNBC on RF channel 28 at 12:00PM this afternoon. Also attached is a screenshot of the impressive calendar and time duration that WNBC enjoyed as an autonomous TV signal.

An impressive history in broadcasting is certainly an understatement to describe the station that was WNBC New York.


----------



## Trip in VA

FrankH3rd said:


> TSR lite shows 6 programs on RF 36:
> 1- WNBC 4.3
> 2- COZI-TV 4.4
> 3- WNJU_HD 47.1
> 4- TeleX 47.2
> 5- WNBC 4.1
> 6 COZI-TV 4.2
> 
> I'm confused??


I can't get into my computer up there to collect data (even though the Live Bandscan continues functioning without my intervention). Can you send me an HTML Export or post it here? I think I know what's going on, but with your data, I can verify.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> A major event in television history occurred this afternoon, specifically Monday, April 2, 2018. Few people may have viewed it, but this afternoon at 12:00PM NOON, NBCUniversal directed their broadcast engineers to effectuate the final shutdown of the Empire State Building based transmitter which broadcasted the autonomous signal of WNBC New York to millions of New York City metropolitan area households. The station, formerly broadcast in Analog over VHF Channel 4 for most of its existence until June 26, 2009, was broadcasting a Digital signal over UHF Channel 28 and carrying two streams: The main stream over virtual channel 4-1 was the flagship station for the NBC Television Network, NBC 4 New York, and a second stream over virtual channel 4-2 was Cozi TV, a classic television themed diginet.
> 
> This stations history is impressive and too comprehensive to fully describe here. One element that must be noted, however, is that in its infancy, when it broadcasted over the now defunct channel 1 spectrum below the current VHF-Lo band, it was licensed as "experimental", and the science that was invested in the broadcast facility would provide the necessary foundation for NTSC commercial television broadcasting as we would enjoy and know it for many decades. And without that preliminary science, we very likely would not have the ATSC commercial television standard we all enjoy today.
> 
> The NYC market NBC affiliate began commercial broadcasting on July 1, 1941 at 1PM ET. or 1:30PM ET. as WNBT New York. The station changed its call-sign on October 18, 1954, to WRCA-TV (for NBC's then-parent company, Radio Corporation of America, or RCA) and on May 22, 1960, channel 4's call-sign was changed to WNBC-TV. Finally on June 1, 1992, channel 4 dropped the _-TV_ suffix from its call letters (following the sale in 1988 of its sister radio station WNBC, which is now WFAN, on 660 kHz) and became WNBC, with the new branding slogan "4 New York".
> 
> WNBC discontinued regular programming over its Analog signal over VHF channel 4 at 12:30PM on June 12, 2009 as part of the nation's transition from the NTSC to ATSC broadcasting standard. The station's Digital signal remained on its transition period UHF channel 28. As part of the Safer Act, WNBC kept its Analog signal on the air until June 26, 2009 to inform viewers of the Digital television transition.
> 
> All in all, this autonomous station, through its many incarnations, remained a continuous television presence serving the NYC market for 76 years, 9 months, and approximately 23 hours. Not shabby at all. And when reviewing the comprehensive milestones the station achieved both culturally and scientifically, it is an historic record that should be celebrated and revered with great pride.
> 
> The two streams formerly broadcast over UHF channel 28 have been airing as subchannels over WNJU Linden, UHF channel 36, the NYC area affiliate for the Telemundo network also owned by NBCUniversal. That station will eventually transition its signal to the World Trade Center and shift one channel lower to UHF channel 35. Several promos featuring WNBC news anchor David Ushery airing over WNBC prior to its final shut-down encouraged viewers to rescan their equipment in order to continue receiving WNBC programming over WNJU; However, those viewers will ultimately lose WNBC and Cozi TV programming once the streams move to channel 35 as WNBC has not yet advised its audience to rescan following that transition.
> 
> And so with today's move, CBS Broadcasting, Inc's WCBS-TV New York now holds the distinction as the oldest continuously operating commercial television station in the United States. That station signed on at 2:30PM ET. on July 1, 1941 as WCBW. The call-sign was changed to WCBS-TV on November 1, 1946, after the FCC allowed television stations owned by radio stations in the same city to use the same call-sign as the radio station with the suffix _-TV_. And WCBS-TV is the only station in the CBS-owned television network to have been built from the ground up by the network. CBS signed-off the VHF channel 2 signal after 8:00AM on July 13, 2009 per the nation's transition from the NTSC to ATSC broadcasting standard, over eight hours later than the FCC mandated, thus rendering WCBS-TV as the last full-power Analog television station to remain on the air following the 2009 digital transition, yet another impressive milestone for that TV station. Unlike NBC, whose corporation realized $214 million for relinquishing the UHF channel 28 spectrum, CBS will not sacrifice the WCBS-TV license and signal to "guest" status on another stations' subchannels.
> 
> I have attached two pictures of the final image broadcast over WNBC on RF channel 28 at 12:00PM this afternoon. Also attached is a screenshot of the impressive calendar and time duration that WNBC enjoyed as an autonomous TV signal.
> 
> An impressive history in broadcasting is certainly an understatement to describe the station that was WNBC New York.


I beg to differ.

WNBC continues to be an operating television station!

It continues to be licensed to operate by the FCC.

It is not a program service such as Cozi.

The only thing that has changed ia that it gave up its previous frequency
and is sharing the frequency of its sister NBCUniversal owned station WNJU.

So, any Guinness Rcoord once held by the station remains in tact - just the
way the station remains in tact!


----------



## FrankH3rd

Trip in VA said:


> I can't get into my computer up there to collect data (even though the Live Bandscan continues functioning without my intervention). Can you send me an HTML Export or post it here? I think I know what's going on, but with your data, I can verify.
> 
> - Trip


Trip, TSReader Lite doesn't seem to let me export HTML, so attached is screen shot in PDF file format. Hope you can open it. My guess is that RF 36 is in some sort of transition from 4.3 to 4.1 at the moment and that is the reason both programs are presently being transmitted. Picture quality currently not great as a result


----------



## Trip in VA

Okay, yes, they're not actually duplicating 4.1/4.2 and 4.3/4.4, but they're feeding the same video/audio stream twice. So 4.1 and 4.3 are completely identical in every way except the fact that there's a 4.1 and a 4.3. There's also no wasted bandwidth, since it's the exact same video/audio streams pointed to both.

Does that make sense?

(Separately, unless something has changed in the most recent version, Lite can output HTML Exports.)

- Trip


----------



## LenL

What has changed is my reception for everyone that moved to 1WTC has been worse and it was much better when they were at the ESB.

I can't really do much of an antenna adjustment since some stations are going to still be broadcasting from both locations!

I have to aim my antenna to some point in between where there are no broadcast towers! What a great plan NY broadcasters!


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> Okay, yes, they're not actually duplicating 4.1/4.2 and 4.3/4.4, but they're feeding the same video/audio stream twice. So 4.1 and 4.3 are completely identical in every way except the fact that there's a 4.1 and a 4.3. There's also no wasted bandwidth, since it's the exact same video/audio streams pointed to both.
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 
> (Separately, unless something has changed in the most recent version, Lite can output HTML Exports.)
> 
> - Trip


Yes exactly as Trip described. I'll add some info to try to put things in layman's terms.

The UHF 36 channel has 3 program maps which take up virtually no bandwidth. Numbers and letters are used are just examples.

*Map 1:* Display 4.1 and tune to A, Display 4.2 and tune to B
*Map 2:* Display 4.3 and tune to A, Display 4.4 and tune to B
*Map 3: *Display 47.1 and tune to C, Display 47.2 and tune to D


*A *WNBC
*B* Cozi
*C *WNJU
*D *Telexitos


I recently checked WNJB 8 out of New Brunswick and it had a similar setup where they had a map for WNJN 50 and WNJB 58 but only transmitted the video once.

Hope that makes sense


----------



## ALP

So I have two questions.

1. My TV's all go to 4.1 when I call for Channel 4, my DVR's go to 4.3. Is that because the PSIP is not working properly in my DVR's?

2. Is it true that NBC is going to move (again! ) from 36 to 35 and thus we will have to re-scan again? And if this is true, when will this happen?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> So I have two questions.
> 
> 1. My TV's all go to 4.1 when I call for Channel 4, my DVR's go to 4.3. Is that because the PSIP is not working properly in my DVR's?
> 
> 2. Is it true that NBC is going to move (again! ) from 36 to 35 and thus we will have to re-scan again? And if this is true, when will this happen?


Yes, WNBC/WNJU will be moving to Channel 35.

The magic date for those and other stations to change channels is 8/2/19.


----------



## FrankH3rd

nyctveng said:


> Yes exactly as Trip described. I'll add some info to try to put things in layman's terms.
> 
> The UHF 36 channel has 3 program maps which take up virtually no bandwidth. Numbers and letters are used are just examples.
> 
> *Map 1:* Display 4.1 and tune to A, Display 4.2 and tune to B
> *Map 2:* Display 4.3 and tune to A, Display 4.4 and tune to B
> *Map 3: *Display 47.1 and tune to C, Display 47.2 and tune to D
> 
> 
> *A *WNBC
> *B* Cozi
> *C *WNJU
> *D *Telexitos
> 
> 
> I recently checked WNJB 8 out of New Brunswick and it had a similar setup where they had a map for WNJN 50 and WNJB 58 but only transmitted the video once.
> 
> Hope that makes sense


Trip & NYCTVENG, thanks for explanation, now makes sense. But I guess that this also means that the picture quality on 4.1/4.3 won't be getting any better either since there is no duplicate bandwidth to be recovered. I use hair clarity as a measure of picture quality. When 4.1 was on RF28, you could make out individual hair strands. Now on RF36 hair strands are not nearly as fine, and sometimes actually blurry. Looks like HD picture quality has suffered with repack!


----------



## CharlieB-oz

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> A major event in television history occurred this afternoon, specifically Monday, April 2, 2018. Few people may have viewed it, but this afternoon at 12:00PM NOON, NBCUniversal directed their broadcast engineers to effectuate the final shutdown of the Empire State Building based transmitter which broadcasted the autonomous signal of WNBC New York to millions of New York City metropolitan area households. The station, formerly broadcast in Analog over VHF Channel 4 for most of its existence until June 26, 2009, was broadcasting a Digital signal over UHF Channel 28 and carrying two streams: The main stream over virtual channel 4-1 was the flagship station for the NBC Television Network, NBC 4 New York, and a second stream over virtual channel 4-2 was Cozi TV, a classic television themed diginet.
> 
> This stations history is impressive and too comprehensive to fully describe here. One element that must be noted, however, is that in its infancy, when it broadcasted over the now defunct channel 1 spectrum below the current VHF-Lo band, it was licensed as "experimental", and the science that was invested in the broadcast facility would provide the necessary foundation for NTSC commercial television broadcasting as we would enjoy and know it for many decades. And without that preliminary science, we very likely would not have the ATSC commercial television standard we all enjoy today.
> 
> The NYC market NBC affiliate began commercial broadcasting on July 1, 1941 at 1PM ET. or 1:30PM ET. as WNBT New York. The station changed its call-sign on October 18, 1954, to WRCA-TV (for NBC's then-parent company, Radio Corporation of America, or RCA) and on May 22, 1960, channel 4's call-sign was changed to WNBC-TV. Finally on June 1, 1992, channel 4 dropped the _-TV_ suffix from its call letters (following the sale in 1988 of its sister radio station WNBC, which is now WFAN, on 660 kHz) and became WNBC, with the new branding slogan "4 New York".
> 
> WNBC discontinued regular programming over its Analog signal over VHF channel 4 at 12:30PM on June 12, 2009 as part of the nation's transition from the NTSC to ATSC broadcasting standard. The station's Digital signal remained on its transition period UHF channel 28. As part of the Safer Act, WNBC kept its Analog signal on the air until June 26, 2009 to inform viewers of the Digital television transition.
> 
> All in all, this autonomous station, through its many incarnations, remained a continuous television presence serving the NYC market for 76 years, 9 months, and approximately 23 hours. Not shabby at all. And when reviewing the comprehensive milestones the station achieved both culturally and scientifically, it is an historic record that should be celebrated and revered with great pride.
> 
> The two streams formerly broadcast over UHF channel 28 have been airing as subchannels over WNJU Linden, UHF channel 36, the NYC area affiliate for the Telemundo network also owned by NBCUniversal. That station will eventually transition its signal to the World Trade Center and shift one channel lower to UHF channel 35. Several promos featuring WNBC news anchor David Ushery airing over WNBC prior to its final shut-down encouraged viewers to rescan their equipment in order to continue receiving WNBC programming over WNJU; However, those viewers will ultimately lose WNBC and Cozi TV programming once the streams move to channel 35 as WNBC has not yet advised its audience to rescan following that transition.
> 
> And so with today's move, CBS Broadcasting, Inc's WCBS-TV New York now holds the distinction as the oldest continuously operating commercial television station in the United States. That station signed on at 2:30PM ET. on July 1, 1941 as WCBW. The call-sign was changed to WCBS-TV on November 1, 1946, after the FCC allowed television stations owned by radio stations in the same city to use the same call-sign as the radio station with the suffix _-TV_. And WCBS-TV is the only station in the CBS-owned television network to have been built from the ground up by the network. CBS signed-off the VHF channel 2 signal after 8:00AM on July 13, 2009 per the nation's transition from the NTSC to ATSC broadcasting standard, over eight hours later than the FCC mandated, thus rendering WCBS-TV as the last full-power Analog television station to remain on the air following the 2009 digital transition, yet another impressive milestone for that TV station. Unlike NBC, whose corporation realized $214 million for relinquishing the UHF channel 28 spectrum, CBS will not sacrifice the WCBS-TV license and signal to "guest" status on another stations' subchannels.
> 
> I have attached two pictures of the final image broadcast over WNBC on RF channel 28 at 12:00PM this afternoon. Also attached is a screenshot of the impressive calendar and time duration that WNBC enjoyed as an autonomous TV signal.
> 
> An impressive history in broadcasting is certainly an understatement to describe the station that was WNBC New York.


Not sub channels. WNBC now channel shares with its sister station WNJU. If NBC4 was a sub channel on WNJU, one could not tune WNBC independently. It's just a technical transformation.


----------



## p0tsm0ke

seems it will take a few days to get the channels back to 4.1 / 4.X 
right now they are all on the 36.X

when 9 changed they went to 25 for like 3 days and back to 9 so just wait it out channels will be back on the normal channels soon


----------



## EF9500

FrankH3rd said:


> Trip & NYCTVENG, thanks for explanation, now makes sense. But I guess that this also means that the picture quality on 4.1/4.3 won't be getting any better either since there is no duplicate bandwidth to be recovered. I use hair clarity as a measure of picture quality. When 4.1 was on RF28, you could make out individual hair strands. Now on RF36 hair strands are not nearly as fine, and sometimes actually blurry. Looks like HD picture quality has suffered with repack!


Unfortunately, the broadcast is half the bandwidth it was on rf28. I get a better pic from DirecTV feed. No reason to have an ota antenna anymore. What a shame.


----------



## ALP

EF9500 said:


> Unfortunately, the broadcast is half the bandwidth it was on rf28. I get a better pic from DirecTV feed. No reason to have an ota antenna anymore. What a shame.


Well I use my antenna for more than just NBC. When NBC moves Channel 4 to 35 will the Spanish programs move there too?


----------



## MeatChicken

Anyone who measures bitrates know if they are now allocating more to WNBC, ( on the 47.1/4.3 & subs combined RF Channel), than they were before the recent 4.1 shutdown .. I ASSumed that they would ( or will) adjust the bitrates to at least more favor WNBC , now that it's the only WNBC steam, no longer co-existing on their own RF channel as well ......


----------



## EF9500

MeatChicken said:


> Anyone who measures bitrates know if they are now allocating more to WNBC, ( on the 47.1/4.3 & subs combined RF Channel), than they were before the recent 4.1 shutdown .. I ASSumed that they would ( or will) adjust the bitrates to at least more favor WNBC , now that it's the only WNBC steam, no longer co-existing on their own RF channel as well ......


Nope, same crap...nbc officially looks like *****.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

SnellKrell said:


> I beg to differ.
> 
> WNBC continues to be an operating television station!
> 
> It continues to be licensed to operate by the FCC.
> 
> It is not a program service such as Cozi.
> 
> The only thing that has changed ia that it gave up its previous frequency
> and is sharing the frequency of its sister NBCUniversal owned station WNJU.
> 
> So, any Guinness Rcoord once held by the station remains in tact - just the
> way the station remains in tact!





CharlieB-oz said:


> Not sub channels. WNBC now channel shares with its sister station WNJU. If NBC4 was a sub channel on WNJU, one could not tune WNBC independently. It's just a technical transformation.


SnellKrell and CharlieB-oz, I totally get the "technicality" of what you guys are advocating - both WNBC and WNJU are separately licensed; many people sympathize! But that sympathy doesn't eradicate the "technical" defeat of the position: WNBC can no longer exist without WNJU. Should the WNJU transmitter fail, will WNBC remain on the air? Should NBC broadcast a special that would best be viewed using the majority of 6 MHz bandwidth, would WNBC autonomously be able to transmit that special unadulterated?



EF9500 said:


> Unfortunately, the broadcast is half the bandwidth it was on rf28. I get a better pic from DirecTV feed. No reason to have an ota antenna anymore. What a shame.





FrankH3rd said:


> Trip & NYCTVENG, thanks for explanation, now makes sense. But I guess that this also means that the picture quality on 4.1/4.3 won't be getting any better either since there is no duplicate bandwidth to be recovered. I use hair clarity as a measure of picture quality. When 4.1 was on RF28, you could make out individual hair strands. Now on RF36 hair strands are not nearly as fine, and sometimes actually blurry. Looks like HD picture quality has suffered with repack!


Hence my continued references to AUTONOMOUS. An autonomous licensed television station would not suffer from the digital video artifacts and subtle aural compression EF9500 and FrankH3rd have aptly noted on the current "WNBC" service, the current "WXTV" service, and their respective host channels.

Without question, CHANNEL SHARING, the decision to end the autonomous WNBC New York service and "guest" it on a co-owned "host" TV station, just as Univision did with WXTV Paterson also in this market, makes sense financially and increases spectrum efficiency - two very good things. It also enable mobile data providers, especially those without ample coverage like T-Mobile and especially Sprint, to expand subscriber data plans, increase their regional penetration, and begin laying the technical foundation for 5G service. While already profitable, additional profit in the cellular industry is requisite as one incentive to build-out cellular broadband in sparser suburban and rural communities.

In my view, the best way for these two seemingly competing wireless industries - Broadcast Television and Cellular Broadband/Voice - to effectively coexist is for more robust testing and implementation of ATSC 3.0. The present-day system seems to be prioritizing cellular broadband at the expense of broadcast TV and this can only guarantee diminished and less reliable service for the television audience.


----------



## SnellKrell

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> SnellKrell and CharlieB-oz, I totally get the "technicality" of what you guys are advocating - both WNBC and WNJU are separately licensed; many people sympathize! But that sympathy doesn't eradicate the "technical" defeat of the position: WNBC can no longer exist without WNJU. Should the WNJU transmitter fail, will WNBC remain on the air? Should NBC broadcast a special that would best be viewed using the majority of 6 MHz bandwidth, would WNBC autonomously be able to transmit that special unadulterated?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hence my continued references to AUTONOMOUS. An autonomous licensed television station would not suffer from the digital video artifacts and subtle aural compression EF9500 and FrankH3rd have aptly noted on the current "WNBC" service, the current "WXTV" service, and their respective host channels.
> 
> Without question, CHANNEL SHARING, the decision to end the autonomous WNBC New York service and "guest" it on a co-owned "host" TV station, just as Univision did with WXTV Paterson also in this market, makes sense financially and increases spectrum efficiency - two very good things. It also enable mobile data providers, especially those without ample coverage like T-Mobile and especially Sprint, to expand subscriber data plans, increase their regional penetration, and begin laying the technical foundation for 5G service. While already profitable, additional profit in the cellular industry is requisite as one incentive to build-out cellular broadband in sparser suburban and rural communities.
> 
> In my view, the best way for these two seemingly competing wireless industries - Broadcast Television and Cellular Broadband/Voice - to effectively coexist is for more robust testing and implementation of ATSC 3.0. The present-day system seems to be prioritizing cellular broadband at the expense of broadcast TV and this can only guarantee diminished and less reliable service for the television audience.


"SnellKrell and CharlieB-oz, I totally get the "technicality" of what you guys are advocating - both WNBC and WNJU are separately licensed; many people sympathize! But that sympathy doesn't eradicate the "technical" defeat of the position: WNBC can no longer exist without WNJU. Should the WNJU transmitter fail, will WNBC remain on the air? Should NBC broadcast a special that would best be viewed using the majority of 6 MHz bandwidth, would WNBC autonomously be able to transmit that special unadulterated?"

Far from a "technicality," WNBC is a de facto, licensed television station!!!!!

And, WNBC could not exist without its own transmitter working.

It is merely using the transmission facilities of its sister station.

The allocation of bandwidth is a separate and important question.

Although I'm not an engineer (some of my best friends are  ) the powers that be do have the ability to reallocate
bits to channels as they see fit.

Come an Olympics telecast, just wait to see how WNBC becomes "bit-rich."

When ATSC 3.0 is employed, the above shoud become moot.


----------



## FrankH3rd

Cold front with high winds just came thru NY region about an hour ago. Am getting frequent pixilation on WNBC 4.1 RF36 on WTC. Never happened on 4.1 RF 28 when it was on Empire State Building, even during Sandy. Have same pixilation problem with WCBS 2.1 RF 33 on windy days since it moved to WTC. That WTC antenna must really be swinging in the wind!


----------



## tld

FrankH3rd said:


> Cold front with high winds just came thru NY region about an hour ago. Am getting frequent pixilation on WNBC 4.1 RF36 on WTC. Never happened on 4.1 RF 28 when it was on Empire State Building, even during Sandy. Have same pixilation problem with WCBS 2.1 RF 33 on windy days since it moved to WTC. That WTC antenna must really be swinging in the wind!


Same here tonight (Central NJ) despite what seems to be good signal strength. Totally sucks. This whole mess with the frequency changes and the auction just sucks. The likes of T-Mobile and Comcast benefit...cause they're the ones that matter right?

Tom


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey SnellKrell,



SnellKrell said:


> Far from a "technicality," WNBC is a de facto, licensed television station!!!!!
> 
> And, WNBC could not exist without its own transmitter working.
> 
> It is merely using the transmission facilities of its sister station.
> 
> The allocation of bandwidth is a separate and important question.
> 
> Although I'm not an engineer (some of my best friends are  ) the powers that be do have the ability to reallocate
> bits to channels as they see fit.
> 
> Come an Olympics telecast, just wait to see how WNBC becomes "bit-rich."
> 
> When ATSC 3.0 is employed, the above shoud become moot.


Is "WNBC" using a SEPARATE transmitter?

Check this discussion, admittedly dating back nearly one year ago, but involving two more knowledgeable people than I: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...elevision-spectrum-repack-2.html#post52589065

The post-in-question says: "You can see that WNBC was bought in the auction. Comcast separately announced it will be channel sharing on the WNJU signal." The keywords in that quote being "*on the WNJU* _*signal*_", with the term "signal" typically referring to electronic emissions from a transmitter, at least as I've always understood the term. If the italicized portion of that quote instead used the term *allocation*, *bandwidth*, *frequency*, or even *RF*, I would concur that the WNBC transmissions are broadcasting from a separate transmitter within the same 6 MHz spectrum as WNJU.

Further along in that same thread on a subsequent page, there is also this: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...elevision-spectrum-repack-3.html#post52639305

The post-in-question there says: "The TSID is unique to the entire transport stream (hence the name); call letters are unique to the station. When there's channel sharing, you have two stations, each with their own call letters, but there's only one transmitter, transport stream, and TSID."

As to "WNBC" becoming "bit-rich", I doubt the current stream can maximize its bitrate to that which formerly existed in WNBC's autonomous era over on UHF channel 28, especially if Cozi TV is to remain a permanent resident, but if whatever station it is can in fact transmit that full bitrate using its own unique transmitter, I'll gladly concede the earlier post bidding farewell to WNBC New York as an autonomous broadcast video service.

And regarding ATSC 3.0, I _*hope*_ it meets or exceeds the expectations set forth by engineers. ATSC 1.0, unfortunately, taught broadcast engineers (and probably even more broadcast TV viewers) that some of what works on paper (especially transmitter power) doesn't always work IRL.


----------



## Trip in VA

Legally, WNBC is still a separately licensed station. That's all that matters for it to be continually operating. 

You might as well be arguing that WNBC actually went away in 2009, because there's no longer NBC programming appearing in analog on 60-66 MHz.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Is there any site in existence today that allows us to plug in our address and provides coordinates to the broadcast towers?

Every site I know of does not show 1WTC as active. TVFOOL is of no use today.


----------



## Trip in VA

The RabbitEars signal search is very slow, but does have the stations on 1WTC. (Except for WNBC itself. Use WNJU instead, which is correctly reflected.)

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> Is there any site in existence today that allows us to plug in our address and provides coordinates to the broadcast towers?
> 
> Every site I know of does not show 1WTC as active. TVFOOL is of no use today.


For those who are already having trouble with receiving WCBS since its move to 1WTC,
get ready to blow a gasket!

The station has just informed the FCC that it will be REDUCING its power by approximately 
36% for a period of up to 6 months, starting mid-April.

This is to allow work on the mast.

If WCBS's lease at ESB weren't about to expire, why in heaven's name did it move when 
it did????

Also, WNJU/WNBC has requested more time to move from the Upper UHF Antenna to the
Lower Antenna. NBCUniversal has said that the move could take months - the Lower UHF 
Antenna is still not operational!

So much for the world's most advanced television transmission facility!!!!!!!


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> The RabbitEars signal search is very slow, but does have the stations on 1WTC. (Except for WNBC itself. Use WNJU instead, which is correctly reflected.)
> 
> - Trip


Thanks Trip! I'll give that a try.


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell,

This is happening because none of the decision makers and engineers use antennas for their TV and so have no clue!

I bet if they did get their TV via an antenna you would see completely different decisions!

So where does this leave us? Screwed! We might as well live in a 3rd world country! Maybe we do as far as OTA is concerned!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> SnellKrell,
> 
> This is happening because none of the decision makers and engineers use antennas for their TV and so have no clue!
> 
> I bet if they did get their TV via an antenna you would see completely different decisions!
> 
> So where does this leave us? Screwed! We might as well live in a 3rd world country! Maybe we do as far as OTA is concerned!


Or maybe they're just inept!


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> SnellKrell,
> 
> This is happening because none of the decision makers and engineers use antennas for their TV and so have no clue!
> 
> I bet if they did get their TV via an antenna you would see completely different decisions!
> 
> So where does this leave us? Screwed! We might as well live in a 3rd world country! Maybe we do as far as OTA is concerned!





SnellKrell said:


> Or maybe they're just inept!


you guys just have bad luck. I've had zero issues with all these moves and havent moved my antenna since i put them up towards esb 10 years ago.


----------



## ALP

FrankH3rd said:


> Cold front with high winds just came thru NY region about an hour ago. Am getting frequent pixilation on WNBC 4.1 RF36 on WTC. Never happened on 4.1 RF 28 when it was on Empire State Building, even during Sandy. Have same pixilation problem with WCBS 2.1 RF 33 on windy days since it moved to WTC. That WTC antenna must really be swinging in the wind!


I often have pixilation, audio and video breakup on CBS since it moved to 1WTC, but I think it is due to heavy rain (or snow) and lower signal strength ( see my post on 4/2 at 11:21 PM). Based on a Google search 1WTC sways 3 feet in high winds ( the ESB almost certainly sways less because it is shorter and older architecture). A 3 foot difference in the position of the source when the distance from source to receiver is around 30 miles ( I live due north of the ESB and 1WTC in Pleasantville, NY) is a negligible shift and the time delay due to the shift is probably not measurable unless you are using something like laser interferometry or something like that ( remember the EM waves that carry the TV signal travel at the speed of light). I did a crude calculation and the 3 foot shift would cause a time delay of about 5.5 times 10 to the -11th power or 55 picoseconds. I do not know enough about what is the threshold for pixilation to know if that delay would cause it. Someone should check my arithmetic.

Guys, I just check my own arithmetic. Here is a simple formula to remember. Light travels 1 foot per nanosecond. So a three foot shift in the source causes a 3 nanosecond time delay. Is that enough for pixilation?


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> For those who are already having trouble with receiving WCBS since its move to 1WTC,
> get ready to blow a gasket!
> 
> The station has just informed the FCC that it will be REDCUING its power by approximately
> 36% for a period of up to 6 months, starting mid-April.
> 
> This is to allow work on the mast.
> 
> If WCBS's lease at ESB weren't about to expire, why in heaven's name did it move when
> it did????
> 
> Also, WNJU/WNBC has requested more time to move from the Upper UHF Antenna to the
> Lower Antenna. NBCUniversal has said that the move could take months - the Lower UHF
> Antenna is still not operational!
> 
> So much for the world's most advanced television transmission facility!!!!!!!


This really sucks!


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> This really sucks!


Wonder if the other stations currently transmitting from 1WTC will also
have to reduce their power?????


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> Is there any site in existence today that allows us to plug in our address and provides coordinates to the broadcast towers?


This is my question too. I went to Rabbit Ears, but I couldn't even figure out where to start; maybe I'm dumb.



LenL said:


> Every site I know of does not show 1WTC as active. TVFOOL is of no use today.


Amen on TV Fool. It is really rather astonishing how useless it's become. It doesn't even list one of the major stations in my area, WNET Channel 13. There is a link to report missing channels, the link takes me to a forum page where I'm supposed to post such messages, I registered in their forum, and THREE WEEKS LATER they still have not confirmed my registration and I still cannot post, even though I've sent them repeated messages on their contact page asking what gives. It's like everyone died there.


----------



## LenL

Criggs,

Go to Rabbit Ears.

Go to Tools and the drop down "Searches"

There are several options for how you want to search.

The first one is you can put in your address and hit the search button. Be patient as it may take a few minutes to come back with results. It is quite good. There are some errors with his database but most of the info is good.


----------



## LenL

Criggs,

Like a couple of other sites TVFOOL was mainly for the digital transition. I don't think anyone is keeping these sites up to date.

It maybe Trip is the only one actively keeping broadcast data up to date these days!


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> There are some errors with his database but most of the info is good.


If people point out said errors to me, I even try to fix them. 

(WNBC will continue to show as being on ESB for some time to come; it's an underlying FCC database issue that I doubt I can do much about without a lot of wrangling.)

- Trip


----------



## LenL

I will PM you with a list of fixes and suggestions.

I was planning to do that when time permits and I thoroughly review what I printed out.


----------



## FrankH3rd

ALP said:


> I often have pixilation, audio and video breakup on CBS since it moved to 1WTC, but I think it is due to heavy rain (or snow) and lower signal strength ( see my post on 4/2 at 11:21 PM). Based on a Google search 1WTC sways 3 feet in high winds ( the ESB almost certainly sways less because it is shorter and older architecture). A 3 foot difference in the position of the source when the distance from source to receiver is around 30 miles ( I live due north of the ESB and 1WTC in Pleasantville, NY) is a negligible shift and the time delay due to the shift is probably not measurable unless you are using something like laser interferometry or something like that ( remember the EM waves that carry the TV signal travel at the speed of light). I did a crude calculation and the 3 foot shift would cause a time delay of about 5.5 times 10 to the -11th power or 55 picoseconds. I do not know enough about what is the threshold for pixilation to know if that delay would cause it. Someone should check my arithmetic.
> 
> Guys, I just check my own arithmetic. Here is a simple formula to remember. Light travels 1 foot per nanosecond. So a three foot shift in the source causes a 3 nanosecond time delay. Is that enough for pixilation?


So, this morning much less windy, and pixilation on WCBS 2.1 and WNBC 4.1 greatly reduced (though still some) here in central NJ. So if wind not causing pixilation, what else?? BTW, signals on both stations very strong here, TSR Lite signal = 43. WCBS was already five bars before move, WNBC went from four to five bars with move. So signal strength by itself not the cause of pixilation & audio losses.


----------



## LenL

FrankH3rd,

Are you using amps or preamps? If so that may be your issue.


----------



## FrankH3rd

LenL said:


> FrankH3rd,
> 
> Are you using amps or preamps? If so that may be your issue.


I use a Channel Master CM3016 antenna amplifier, but I never had a pixilation or audio drop problem in the last ten years with WCBS and WNBC (or any other UHF channel for that matter) until they moved to WTC in the last few weeks, so I can't imagine why the problem would be related to the amplifier. I do get pixilation and audio drops on VHF channels 6, 7, 11, 12 and 13, but only when thunderstorms are in the area, but I consider that a positive feature, a warning to close the car windows before it rains (just kidding).


----------



## tld

FrankH3rd said:


> I use a Channel Master CM3016 antenna amplifier, but I never had a pixilation or audio drop problem in the last ten years with WCBS and WNBC (or any other UHF channel for that matter) until they moved to WTC in the last few weeks, so I can't imagine why the problem would be related to the amplifier. I do get pixilation and audio drops on VHF channels 6, 7, 11, 12 and 13, but only when thunderstorms are in the area, but I consider that a positive feature, a warning to close the car windows before it rains (just kidding).


I've almost never had issues either with my Radio Shack antenna and CM amplifier. I've had one failed recording on my MythTV system on 4.1 tonight, and a second that wouldn't tune at all until I killed and restarted it. Not nice. The signal strength (on my HDHomeRun tuner) etc actually looks pretty good:



Code:


ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=90 seq=100 bps=6220544 pps=591
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=90 seq=100 bps=6037056 pps=574
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=90 seq=100 bps=5355744 pps=508
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=90 snq=90 seq=100 bps=5576832 pps=530

Tom


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> Criggs,
> Go to Rabbit Ears.
> Go to Tools and the drop down "Searches"
> There are several options for how you want to search.
> The first one is you can put in your address and hit the search button. Be patient as it may take a few minutes to come back with results. It is quite good.


Thanks; it worked fine.

I'm a little confused on the station order. I assumed it would be listed in order of distance/strength, but it's listing a station 4 miles away right along with a station 56 miles away. So it's obviously not ordering them by distance. I wonder what it IS ordering them by.


----------



## Trip in VA

criggs said:


> Thanks; it worked fine.
> 
> I'm a little confused on the station order. I assumed it would be listed in order of distance/strength, but it's listing a station 4 miles away right along with a station 56 miles away. So it's obviously not ordering them by distance. I wonder what it IS ordering them by.


It sorts by strength if the strength search worked. It will only do so if you give it an address--if you give it a zip code only, it won't do a strength search. 

- Trip


----------



## criggs

Trip in VA said:


> It sorts by strength if the strength search worked. It will only do so if you give it an address--if you give it a zip code only, it won't do a strength search.


Yep, that's exactly what I did. And, assuming it's sorting by strength, it's claiming that a station 56 miles away is stronger than a station that's 1 mile away. Something's got to be wrong, no?


----------



## Trip in VA

criggs said:


> Yep, that's exactly what I did. And, assuming it's sorting by strength, it's claiming that a station 56 miles away is stronger than a station that's 1 mile away. Something's got to be wrong, no?


I'm sort of flying blind here. It works when I do it, but I can't see what you see, so I don't know if something's wrong or not. You can PM me the link to your results if you wish and I'll give it a look.

- Trip


----------



## criggs

Trip in VA said:


> I'm sort of flying blind here. It works when I do it, but I can't see what you see, so I don't know if something's wrong or not. You can PM me the link to your results if you wish and I'll give it a look.


It's a zip code, so I can post it publicly. Here it is: https://rabbitears.info/search.php?...s=60&address=&lat=&lon=&dbtype=dBm&height=243 . Thanks for taking a look at it.


----------



## Trip in VA

criggs said:


> It's a zip code, so I can post it publicly. Here it is: https://rabbitears.info/search.php?...s=60&address=&lat=&lon=&dbtype=dBm&height=243 . Thanks for taking a look at it.


Er, I already addressed that:



Trip in VA said:


> It will only do so if you give it an address--if you give it a zip code only, it won't do a strength search.


- Trip


----------



## criggs

Trip in VA said:


> Er, I already addressed that:


Oops. Sorry about that. I'll do an address search and see what happens.


----------



## criggs

criggs said:


> Oops. Sorry about that. I'll do an address search and see what happens.


Well, I just did an address search and the same thing is happening. It's listing a station 56 miles away before it's listing a station one mile away. I'll message you with the address URL.


----------



## LenL

criggs,

I have done address searches and have not had an issue like you are reporting. 

Are you clicking the strength search option in the address search?


----------



## tld

tld said:


> I've almost never had issues either with my Radio Shack antenna and CM amplifier. I've had one failed recording on my MythTV system on 4.1 tonight, and a second that wouldn't tune at all until I killed and restarted it. Not nice. The signal strength (on my HDHomeRun tuner) etc actually looks pretty good:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=90 seq=100 bps=6220544 pps=591
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=90 seq=100 bps=6037056 pps=574
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=90 seq=100 bps=5355744 pps=508
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=90 snq=90 seq=100 bps=5576832 pps=530
> 
> Tom


What I'm seeing when the broadcast starts pixelating is that the signal strength and snq look basically OK, but the signal error quality (seq) sporadically drops to zero like this:


Code:


ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=81 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=85 snq=76 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=78 seq=0 bps=18366848 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=85 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=81 seq=0 bps=19530944 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=76 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=51 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=74 seq=0 bps=16814720 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=79 seq=0 bps=18819552 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=87 snq=78 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=85 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0

Not good for sure. I never saw that before.

Tom


----------



## n2ubp

I live in Middletown, NY 10940, about 60 miles NW of NYC. 
My tuner shows 95 percent signal strength for channel 7 but the picture constantly breaks up, making me think multi path might be a problem. 
Anyone else having this kind of problem? Channel 11 comes in perfectly.

Antenna setup is an 91XG for UHF and a few feet below it a VHF high band Winegard YA-1713 into a CM Spartan mast mounted preamp. 
Thanks,
Steve
N2UBP


----------



## criggs

n2ubp said:


> I live in Middletown, NY 10940, about 60 miles NW of NYC.
> My tuner shows 95 percent signal strength for channel 7 but the picture constantly breaks up, making me think multi path might be a problem.
> Anyone else having this kind of problem? Channel 11 comes in perfectly.


Precisely the same. I have breakup on Channel 4, 5, 7 and 9. I cannot get 2 at all, and 11 and 13 are coming in perfectly.

Mind you, this is with my DVR+. With my Vizio TV, all channels are coming in fine.


----------



## LenL

n2ubp said:


> I live in Middletown, NY 10940, about 60 miles NW of NYC.
> My tuner shows 95 percent signal strength for channel 7 but the picture constantly breaks up, making me think multi path might be a problem.
> Anyone else having this kind of problem? Channel 11 comes in perfectly.
> 
> Antenna setup is an 91XG for UHF and a few feet below it a VHF high band Winegard YA-1713 into a CM Spartan mast mounted preamp.
> Thanks,
> Steve
> N2UBP


WOw! I applaud you for trying to get OTA from MIddletown NY! You seem to be doing better than I would have thought.

Secondly signal strength is only one part of the dynamics. Signal quality is also very important and you need to be able to measure that too! Sometimes it can be the determining factor.

I suspect you are using amplifiers? They can not only boost signal but also noise and interference which impact reception and signal quality.

Finally everything I read says always mount your VHF antenna as high as possible. Above your UHF if you have separate antennas. Some here may chime in with disagreement but that is what I read and follow and it works for me.


----------



## LenL

criggs said:


> Precisely the same. I have breakup on Channel 4, 5, 7 and 9. I cannot get 2 at all, and 11 and 13 are coming in perfectly.
> 
> Mind you, this is with my DVR+. With my Vizio TV, all channels are coming in fine.


Having some similar but different results with my DVR+. I get 2, 5, 7, 11, 13 just fine. Since 4 and 9 went to the 1WTC I have issues. I have not attempted to adjust my antenna pointing yet and that may help me. Waiting for a nice day next week to do that and I will report back in. 

I have one Sharp TV fed directly by the antenna and it is getting the same recults as my DVR+.


----------



## criggs

LenL said:


> Having some similar but different results with my DVR+. I get 2, 5, 7, 11, 13 just fine. Since 4 and 9 went to the 1WTC I have issues. I have not attempted to adjust my antenna pointing yet and that may help me. Waiting for a nice day next week to do that and I will report back in.
> 
> I have one Sharp TV fed directly by the antenna and it is getting the same recults as my DVR+.


Really? I wonder if I have a bum DVR+. I've always gotten much worse results on my DVR+ than the Vizio.


----------



## n2ubp

LenL said:


> WOw! I applaud you for trying to get OTA from MIddletown NY! You seem to be doing better than I would have thought.
> 
> Secondly signal strength is only one part of the dynamics. Signal quality is also very important and you need to be able to measure that too! Sometimes it can be the determining factor.
> 
> I suspect you are using amplifiers? They can not only boost signal but also noise and interference which impact reception and signal quality.
> 
> Finally everything I read says always mount your VHF antenna as high as possible. Above your UHF if you have separate antennas. Some here may chime in with disagreement but that is what I read and follow and it works for me.


Not sure if this helps. Here is some TS Reader info for 7 and 11 from my computer. Signal is not as strong in this particular room in the house due to wiring and splitter in room to serve multiple receivers. Middletown, NY 10940. Last night I played with the rotor a bit and was able to get a better but not viewable picture on 7 if I mis aimed the antenna a bit to the west with 87 percent signal strength on 7 instead of 95 percent on the Homewerx tuner.


----------



## LenL

criggs said:


> Really? I wonder if I have a bum DVR+. I've always gotten much worse results on my DVR+ than the Vizio.


DVR+ tuner discussion is on another forum so I will not go into it. There could be reasons other than you have a bum DVR+.


----------



## dstoffa

LenL said:


> Having some similar but different results with my DVR+. I get 2, 5, 7, 11, 13 just fine. Since 4 and 9 went to the 1WTC I have issues. I have not attempted to adjust my antenna pointing yet and that may help me. Waiting for a nice day next week to do that and I will report back in.


I am a stone's throw from JFK, with roof antenna. I get the new WNBC fine. WWOR is still S&^t. It cannot be watched during daylight. After sunset, reception improves, but still pixelates out... I get WNYE on RF-24 pefect at 100%, so I don't believe it's my antenna.


----------



## ALP

tld said:


> What I'm seeing when the broadcast starts pixelating is that the signal strength and snq look basically OK, but the signal error quality (seq) sporadically drops to zero like this:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=81 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=85 snq=76 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=78 seq=0 bps=18366848 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=85 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=81 seq=0 bps=19530944 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=76 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=51 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=74 seq=0 bps=16814720 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=79 seq=0 bps=18819552 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=87 snq=78 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=85 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
> 
> Not good for sure. I never saw that before.
> 
> Tom


Tom, What is "snq" and "pps"?


----------



## tld

ALP said:


> Tom, What is "snq" and "pps"?


The "snq" is signal to noise quality I believe. The pps aren't too relevant here. That output is from the hdhomerun_config utility, and that's just the packets per second that the HDHomerun is sending over the network. The reason it's zero there was that I just manually tuned in the channel using the hdhomerun_config command to do that test. When I'm actually using the tuner in MythTV for example, I see this:


Code:


ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=85 seq=100 bps=9039040 pps=859
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=84 seq=100 bps=8942784 pps=849
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=85 seq=100 bps=8804416 pps=836
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=95 snq=85 seq=100 bps=8972864 pps=853
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=85 seq=100 bps=9293216 pps=882

I'm still seeing occasional cases where that seq drops to zero...though not as often.

Tom


----------



## foxycat

I admit I don't understand a lot of the technical stuff on the forum.

A few stations disappeared, then reappeared a few days later. Is that because of the move from ESB to WTC?

All of WWOR, channel 9, usually 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 and 9.4, has not returned. Channel 11.3, WPIX DT3, hasn't returned. Are they dead now? I use an indoor antenna, and the number of positions I can put it into is limited. My apartment faces north in Westchester County, not facing either transmitter, but I got a sizable collection of stations before this.


----------



## SnellKrell

foxycat said:


> I admit I don't understand a lot of the technical stuff on the forum.
> 
> A few stations disappeared, then reappeared a few days later. Is that because of the move from ESB to WTC?
> 
> All of WWOR, channel 9, usually 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 and 9.4, has not returned. Channel 11.3, WPIX DT3, hasn't returned. Are they dead now? I use an indoor antenna, and the number of positions I can put it into is limited. My apartment faces north in Westchester County, not facing either transmitter, but I got a sizable collection of stations before this.


Have you done a rescan on your television set?

If not, you must!


----------



## 2VW

Funny how different STBs and TVs behave.

Some equipment holds on to old information such as Empire 4.1 and 4.2 on RF 28 which is now defunct.

One fix is to perform two complete rescans with the antenna disconnected, reconnect the antenna, rescan once more.

Then there are some that may stay stuck on stupid when you try that.

My favorite STB is the Homeworx because it outperforms a few others in my location 08722 where there are no nearby transmitters.

The Homeworx box is guaranteed to quit working after a year or so and they are one that can go bonkers when the antenna is disconnected.


----------



## SnellKrell

"The Homeworx box is guaranteed to quit working after a year or so and they are one that can go bonkers when the antenna is disconnected."

And this is your favorite? I hate to hear about ones you don't like! 

Will you fix change the way WNBC and Cozi now show up - 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4?


----------



## 2VW

SnellKrell said:


> "The Homeworx box is guaranteed to quit working after a year or so and they are one that can go bonkers when the antenna is disconnected."
> 
> And this is your favorite? I hate to hear about ones you don't like!


Any consumer grade electronics manufactured with ROHS has a limited life. It's all relative.


----------



## speedlaw

2VW said:


> Any consumer grade electronics manufactured with ROHS has a limited life. It's all relative.



Not to thred-jack, but the Homeworx boxes are sensitive to voltage spikes, and will lose their minds occasionally...reset, re enter your recordings, and start over. The box isn't dead.

Re Scanning my Tivo box to try to get the re packed 4.1 and 4.2 to slot properly.


----------



## 2VW

speedlaw said:


> Not to thred-jack, but the Homeworx boxes are sensitive to voltage spikes, and will lose their minds occasionally...reset, re enter your recordings, and start over. The box isn't dead.


The box will not reboot. It's dead just like the last one. Well known documented problem. Different than just being locked up. Not my first rodeo podner.


----------



## foxycat

SnellKrell said:


> Have you done a rescan on your television set?
> 
> If not, you must!


Oops, I hadn't. Thank you! Was I correct about the antenna move causing this?

Unrelated question--
Is there some way I could get Channel 21, WLIW? I lost it when everything went digital.


----------



## SnellKrell

foxycat said:


> Oops, I hadn't. Thank you! Was I correct about the antenna move causing this?
> 
> Unrelated question--
> Is there some way I could get Channel 21, WLIW? I lost it when everything went digital.


Channel 9 has not only moved, the station also changed its frequency.

Channel 11 hasn't changed its location nor frequency - there should be no change in your reception of this station.

Are you receiving WNBC OK?

Rescan is necessary for this station too - it's now transmitting only from 1WTC and on a different frequency.


----------



## foxycat

SnellKrell said:


> Channel 9 has not only moved, the station also changed its frequency.
> 
> Channel 11 hasn't changed its location nor frequency - there should be no change in your reception of this station.
> 
> Are you receiving WNBC OK?
> 
> Rescan is necessary for this station too - it's now transmitting only from 1WTC and on a different frequency.


WNBC is fine.


----------



## tld

SnellKrell said:


> Are you receiving WNBC OK?
> 
> Rescan is necessary for this station too - it's now transmitting only from 1WTC and on a different frequency.


Until this move I've been picking up NBC 4.1 with no problem (in central NJ) for 15 years. Since the move it's been pretty bad. All my MythTV recordings from last night are really pixelated and marked as damaged. Totally sucks. I'm going to experiment with moving my antenna a little but I'm not too hopeful. It still mostly seems like it's the signal error quality frequently dropping from 100 to 0.


----------



## LenL

tld said:


> Until this move I've been picking up NBC 4.1 with no problem (in central NJ) for 15 years. Since the move it's been pretty bad. All my MythTV recordings from last night are really pixelated and marked as damaged. Totally sucks. I'm going to experiment with moving my antenna a little but I'm not too hopeful. It still mostly seems like it's the signal error quality frequently dropping from 100 to 0.


Count me as in the same boat as you are in. Only I tried adjusting my antenna and could not get any improvement in signal. It looks like all the hype about how broadcasting from 1WTC was going to improved reception was all a myth for at least some of us! Not sure if I will be able to ever get NBC back!


----------



## reddice

They say ATSC 3.0 will fix reception issues but with all of the constant delays and not one even new flagship TV or DVR even having a 3.0 tuner stupid 5 year rule once a station goes 3.0 I think ATSC 5.0 will be out in S.Korea and once again we will be out of date with digital TV.


----------



## nyctveng

SnellKrell said:


> Channel 9 has not only moved, the station also changed its frequency.


9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement


----------



## LenL

nyctveng said:


> 9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement


That is another station where reception went bad as soon as they moved to 1WTC. The only station I can receive decently that moved to 1WTC is CBS 2.1.

Just want to edit that I should have also said the the signal for 2.1 while decent at 1WTC signal strength did drop from 88 to 78. That is a lot!


----------



## reddice

nyctveng said:


> 9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement


Now I see why WNYW HD did not share its channel with WWOR.


----------



## tld

LenL said:


> Count me as in the same boat as you are in. Only I tried adjusting my antenna and could not get any improvement in signal. It looks like all the hype about how broadcasting from 1WTC was going to improved reception was all a myth for at least some of us! Not sure if I will be able to ever get NBC back!


While I'm very skeptical I just found something interesting:

I have several HDHomeRun tuners and one old pcHDTV HD-5500 PCI tuner. Just before I tried using the HD-5500 in MythTV to watch live TV. I actually thought it had finally died altogether because it couldn't even get a lock on the station. Turns out it was trying to tune WNBC 4.1 and the reception was really that bad. Interestingly I tried pointing my antenna a little north of where I had it and at least for now I have the SS at about 93-95 and it seems to be behaving:


Code:


ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19595616 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0

I'll see if that continues...wish I was more hopeful.

Tom


----------



## MeatChicken

nyctveng said:


> 9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement


 Why do only 5 & 9 xmit an SD subchannel feed, isn't it a wast of bandwidth? Any new or old TV or box capable of decoding/ receiving the SD subchannel will be able to decode/display display the main channel anyway ....


----------



## LenL

MeatChicken said:


> Why do only 5 & 9 xmit an SD subchannel feed, isn't it a wast of bandwidth? Any new or old TV or box capable of decoding/ receiving the SD subchannel will be able to decode/display display the main channel anyway ....


Because the people making those decisions are clueless about OTA! They never used an antenna and live in a bubble!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

nyctveng said:


> 9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement


That should improve the bitrates across the WWOR-TV subchannel suite 

Which is one of my points with the WNBC debate... technology advances should be IMPROVING AQ & PQ, not worsening them. If, at the end of the repack, most of these channel shares look and sound like crap, where do the VIEWERs (apparently disinterested freeloading parties) stand to benefit? Must they ultimately subscribe to a Pay-TV service to realize full bitrates? These channel shares might look great on a mobile device, monitor, tablet, or maximum-sized 26" television, but beyond those devices????

And to Reddice: You're right. Euro-Asia and other European nations are already circling our wagons with respect to improved technology. And if you want a hint as to how this will go, look back at the late 20th century. Betamax vs. VHS. Which format had the better quality and which format ultimately succeeded in the United States marketplace?


----------



## LenL

As a Betamax owner I totally agree. There probably were good reasons for Betamax to fail and ultimately VHS died too!

DVDs were better than either I have to admit.

I just hope when we look back we will all agree that the repack and ATSC 3.0 have improved OTA reception and viewing. So far we are a long way from knowing. So far things have gone south for me.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> As a Betamax owner I totally agree. There probably were good reasons for Betamax to fail and ultimately VHS died too!
> 
> DVDs were better than either I have to admit.
> 
> I just hope when we look back we will all agree that the repack and ATSC 3.0 have improved OTA reception and viewing. So far we are a long way from knowing. So far things have gone south for me.


How has or will the repack improve OTA reception?


ATSC 3.0 has great promise for OTA, but the repack????


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey SnellKrell,


SnellKrell said:


> How has or will the repack improve OTA reception?
> 
> 
> ATSC 3.0 has great promise for OTA, but the repack????


The repack does not enhance or improve OTA television reception, rather it allows for greater spectrum efficiency. The reclaimed spectrum is crucial in today's mobile-driven environment. Make no mistake: Our nation - and the entire world - is not and will not be turning away from their mobile devices and the instantaneous information-on-demand they provide. And that 3G, 4G, LTE, and eventually 5G data is not comprised exclusively of silly social media games. Some mobile providers even include sponsored-streaming audio and/or video services that don't count against the subscribers' data consumption, thus saving the cost of an additional subscription service.

ATSC 3.0, if implemented properly, will not only deliver new and exciting services such as 4K, file sharing/transmission, and user-targeted advertising, but will also enable additional streams per channel without the crummy artifacts we've grown accustomed to with ATSC 1.0. I do have great concerns over encryption, watermarks, and even privacy issues, but those will have to be dealt with both legislatively and through standards voluntarily implemented by the broadcast industry.

I honestly believe the ATSC 3.0 standard should be fast-tracked with encouragement from both Congress and the FCC. Without the implementation of that new standard, with respect to television broadcasting, the repack will only serve to decimate the existing broadcast TV platform by way of degrading the final product quality, sacrificing in limited instances some of our nation's heritage autonomous signals, and place the federal government once again into the position of picking winners and losers, with broadcast TV falling squarely among the latter.


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,

Thanks for bailing me out with Snellkrell. I could have worded my post better. I was only trying to imply that the repack was another change coming that impacts reception for us. I did not mean to imply it was intended to improve reception. Like the move to 1WTC will impact reception and it has been a bumpy ride for at least some of us.


----------



## nyctveng

MeatChicken said:


> Why do only 5 & 9 xmit an SD subchannel feed, isn't it a wast of bandwidth? Any new or old TV or box capable of decoding/ receiving the SD subchannel will be able to decode/display display the main channel anyway ....


Because the OTA coverage of those 2 channels differ. There are viewers that can pick up 5 and not 9 and vice versa. It's about the station using it's resources to have their content seen in as many homes as possible albeit at the expense of lower bitrates for their main HD channels. Also many cable companies use the SD subchannels rather than doing their own downconversion which can costs thousands of dollars in equipment.


----------



## nyctveng

reddice said:


> Now I see why WNYW HD did not share its channel with WWOR.


It was a business decision at the highest level to keep their OTA channels rather than cash out now like small crappy mom & pop stations. The channel sharing arrangement between WRNN and WWOR likely happened recently and was not a factor in deciding whether to give up their channel or not.


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> Because the OTA coverage of those 2 channels differ. There are viewers that can pick up 5 and not 9 and vice versa. It's about the station using it's resources to have their content seen in as many homes as possible. Also many cable companies use the SD subchannels rather than doing their own downconversion which can costs thousands of dollars in equipment.


It also acts as a backup that costs nothing!


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> It was a business decision at the highest level to keep their OTA channels rather than cash out now like small crappy mom & pop stations. The channel sharing arrangement between WRNN and WWOR likely happened recently and was not a factor in deciding whether to give up their channel or not.


Don't forget that Uncle Rupert got real bucks from T-Mobile for giving up
Channel 38 early!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

A few observations and questions:


nyctveng said:


> Because the OTA coverage of those 2 channels differ. There are viewers that can pick up 5 and not 9 and vice versa. It's about the station using it's resources to have their content seen in as many homes as possible albeit at the expense of lower bitrates for their main HD channels. Also many cable companies use the SD subchannels rather than doing their own downconversion which can costs thousands of dollars in equipment.


Clearly, FOX can transmit their redundant streams on any "property" they own and/or LMA without running afoul of any FCC regulations, so that's not even an issue. With that being said, the duplicate feeds remain even with WWOR-TV's move to the World Trade Center AND the fact that both WNYW and WWOR-TV maintain LD translators on Channel 32 (Newburgh, NY) and Channel 34 (Alpine, NJ), respectively.

Additionally, the downconversion matter, at this point, should be an issue of exception rather than rule. Consumers can no longer purchase a 4:3 television set at a large or mid-size retailer. Used televisions can be purchased online, at garage sales, at second-hand stores, or found placed out by the curb in some municipalities. But with nearly nine years having passed since all full-power Analog stations went silent in the United States and the purchase prices for new televisions dropping significantly, most people by now, and especially residents in major markets such as New York City, have transitioned to a 16:9 television and the High Definition (HD) signals that serve them.

Accordingly, the duplication of these feeds, while totally legal, seems more now than ever before to be a waste of valuable bandwidth. It will be interesting to see if the addition of WRNN-TV Kingston, a station whose primary stream is currently transmitting an HD signal and has a few subchannels Richard French may want to bring along, changes the minds of the powers that be at FOX.

The WWOR-TV(H)/WRNN-TV(G) channel share was approved by the FCC just over one month ago in March 2018.



SnellKrell said:


> Don't forget that Uncle Rupert got real bucks from T-Mobile for giving up
> Channel 38 early!


I am curious as to why T-Mobile was more anxious for the Channel 38 spectrum to be vacated before that of Channel 44. I had thought that the higher channels were deemed more valuable and thus would be cleared first.


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> the fact that both WNYW and WWOR-TV maintain LD translators on Channel 32 (Newburgh, NY) and Channel 34 (Alpine, NJ), respectively.


Those were canceled last year.



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> I am curious as to why T-Mobile was more anxious for the Channel 38 spectrum to be vacated before that of Channel 44. I had thought that the higher channels were deemed more valuable and thus would be cleared first.


Because they bought spectrum adjacent to channel 38 and not spectrum adjacent to channel 44. Clearing 44 does nothing to allow T-Mobile to deploy wireless service.

- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Additionally, the downconversion matter, at this point, should be an issue of exception rather than rule. Consumers can no longer purchase a 4:3 television set at a large or mid-size retailer. Used televisions can be purchased online, at garage sales, at second-hand stores, or found placed out by the curb in some municipalities. But with nearly nine years having passed since all full-power Analog stations went silent in the United States and the purchase prices for new televisions dropping significantly, most people by now, and especially residents in major markets such as New York City, have transitioned to a 16:9 television and the High Definition (HD) signals that serve them.
> 
> .


Your thinking in selfish ways rather than thru the eyes of the TV station. Cable companies are still required to carry SD 
& HD (if available) versions of the dot 1 service of every local station. The downconversion benefits the cable companies and to 5 & 9 because many cable companies screw up downconversions by doing center cut rather than letterbox or vice versa. If the station chooses to do it, then the cable company can just pass it thru.




Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Accordingly, the duplication of these feeds, while totally legal, seems more now than ever before to be a waste of valuable bandwidth. It will be interesting to see if the addition of WRNN-TV Kingston, a station whose primary stream is currently transmitting an HD signal and has a few subchannels Richard French may want to bring along, changes the minds of the powers that be at FOX.
> 
> .


The agreement is likely just the primary 48-1 channel rather than the all subchannels. I believe NHK has shifted its distribution.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey nyctveng,



nyctveng said:


> Your thinking in selfish ways rather than thru the eyes of the TV station. Cable companies are still required to carry SD
> & HD (if available) versions of the dot 1 service of every local station. The downconversion benefits the cable companies and to 5 & 9 because many cable companies screw up downconversions by doing center cut rather than letterbox or vice versa. If the station chooses to do it, then the cable company can just pass it thru.


I suspect that is what is going on with the *DECADES* feed being taken by Altice/Optimum, formerly Cablevision/Optimum. The aspect ratio isn't correct for 4:3 televisions (it is squeezed) and their Samsung converters' requisite adjustments cannot correct.



nyctveng said:


> The agreement is likely just the primary 48-1 channel rather than the all subchannels. I believe NHK has shifted its distribution.


You are correct. *NHK World* is now being carried as a subchannel over the *NJTV* network of transmitters throughout New Jersey and NJPBA has secured carriage agreements with various cable operators throughout the region.


----------



## darkegg

Did NJTV recently increase it's power? I'm suddenly able to pick up both stations (WNJS/WNJT and WNJB/WNJN) here in Queens, when I didn't pick up any of them last month. Channels 23 (WNJS) and 52 (WNJT) have strong signal, but ch50 (WNJN) and ch58 (WNJB) have very weak signal. I'm finding this strange because I'd expect ch50/58 (North Jersey) to have a stronger signal compared to ch23/52 (South Jersey). Can anyone explain what's going on?


----------



## Jay Stone

darkegg said:


> Did NJTV recently increase it's power? I'm suddenly able to pick up both stations (WNJS/WNJT and WNJB/WNJN) here in Queens, when I didn't pick up any of them last month. Channels 23 (WNJS) and 52 (WNJT) have strong signal, but ch50 (WNJN) and ch58 (WNJB) have very weak signal. I'm finding this strange because I'd expect ch50/58 (North Jersey) to have a stronger signal compared to ch23/52 (South Jersey). Can anyone explain what's going on?




Well, I am out on Long Island, 45 miles from the tower, and last night I was pulling in WNJT and WNJB, but I was also pulling in WABC, which I’ve never been able to receive, on my Channel Master 4 bay UHF Antenna, so maybe something atmospheric going on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## darkegg

Jay Stone said:


> Well, I am out on Long Island, 45 miles from the tower, and last night I was pulling in WNJT and WNJB, but I was also pulling in WABC, which I’ve never been able to receive, on my Channel Master 4 bay UHF Antenna, so maybe something atmospheric going on.


That could be the case. I'm not getting any signal from any of the NJTV stations this morning.


----------



## Jay Stone

darkegg said:


> That could be the case. I'm not getting any signal from any of the NJTV stations this morning.




Yeah, me either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CaptainBadAss

Jay Stone said:


> Yeah, me either.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow. I live in Astoria, and I have never been able to get NJTV stations. I'll have to check tonight.


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> Having some similar but different results with my DVR+. I get 2, 5, 7, 11, 13 just fine. Since 4 and 9 went to the 1WTC I have issues. I have not attempted to adjust my antenna pointing yet and that may help me. Waiting for a nice day next week to do that and I will report back in.
> 
> I have one Sharp TV fed directly by the antenna and it is getting the same recults as my DVR+.


I wish we could figure out what drives such a wide range of reception. Since I live almost exactly due north of the ESB the move to 1WTC does not require (in principle) any antenna realignment for me. I get very good reception (even in bad weather) on 4,5,7,11, and 13 (all average about 84 on the signal strength "meter" on my TV's). Channel 2, however, breaks up and this morning I even lost the signal for as much as 3 or 4 minutes and the weather yesterday was near perfect. The signal strength for Channel 2 is about 63 ( 75% of the other channels) and intermittently drops to zero. What is unique about Channel 2 that effects viewing from the north???  Maybe in good weather I should try to tweak my antenna direction to maximize Channel 2 reception (if possible) and see if it impacts the other channels.


----------



## LenL

Changing Antenna Location helps!

I bit the bullet so to speak and elevated my CM4228 antenna on the existing mast to try to get reception on NBC. I only raised it about 8 feet higher on the mast but that did the trick. NBC signal quality which was bouncing around and giving me pixelation so bad I could not really watch or record is now a solid 100%. Signal strength which was in the low 60s is also better at around 72%. Same for 9.1 WWOR.

There was a downside. I lost signal strength on CBS from 80% down to 64%. Signal quality is still 100%.

Also by moving the CM4228 higher on the mast I also place it closer to my dedicated VHF antenna. It is now only 4 feet from it and it seems to have resulted in signal quality going down a bit on the 3 VHF stations in our area (7.1, 11.1 and 13.1).

OTA reception is so fickle isn't it?

I'll probably leave it alone for now until we have more movement from the ESB to 1WTC or repack changes.


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## reddice

WJLP is my strongest station. Really it is on Low-VHF on the lowest high building and it is the most reliable even in bad weather. As for WPIX is a mess if it just rains a little. Also WNBC WNJU now breaks up a bit. I am done with OTA reception I am cancelling my TiVo sub before my billing cycle comes up since most of what I record is on WNBC and WPIX.


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## speedlaw

LenL said:


> Changing Antenna Location helps!
> 
> I bit the bullet so to speak and elevated my CM4228 antenna on the existing mast to try to get reception on NBC. I only raised it about 8 feet higher on the mast but that did the trick. NBC signal quality which was bouncing around and giving me pixelation so bad I could not really watch or record is now a solid 100%. Signal strength which was in the low 60s is also better at around 72%. Same for 9.1 WWOR.
> 
> There was a downside. I lost signal strength on CBS from 80% down to 64%. Signal quality is still 100%.
> 
> Also by moving the CM4228 higher on the mast I also place it closer to my dedicated VHF antenna. It is now only 4 feet from it and it seems to have resulted in signal quality going down a bit on the 3 VHF stations in our area (7.1, 11.1 and 13.1).
> 
> OTA reception is so fickle isn't it?
> 
> I'll probably leave it alone for now until we have more movement from the ESB to 1WTC or repack changes.


What's interesting is that different frequencies reflect/refract differently. When my 4228 was taken down in a storm, I just removed the broken pole, so it is now 8-10 feet off the roof, instead of 10-15. RF 11 got weaker, and my worst tuner will occasionally pixellate. Other channels were pretty much the same. The biggest example was back before transition...I have a ham radio in my car, that would pick up the FM audio carriers. There is a long, long 1200 foot hill on one of my commutes, about 50 miles north of the transmitters. 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11 would come and go at different points on the long downhill, and they'd refract differently from the hill ahead of the long hill. It was a fascinating propagation study on a long ride. Playing with ham radio, I've seen as well "knife edge" refraction, where the signal bends over a hill or ridge, and for a small but strong area you can get a signal that you'd not think was possible. We won't even go into tropo bending  but sometimes from my location you can hit NYC, and others, almost DC. I recall one day where, with NTSC, I got a strong viewable station on every single 2-13 channel. 3 from Philly was a fairly frequent catch under more normal conditions.

I can only imagine that multipath in a City will vary as well depending on frequency of transmitter, the same principles should apply.

In short, moving an antenna even a few feet up, down, or sideways can make a huge difference ! Don't be afraid to experiment..you won't break anything ! One side of the roof might be useless, but the other, great.


----------



## LenL

The CM4228 is an amazing antenna but it is not a very good VHF antenna if you are far from the broadcast towers. That is why I added a small VHF antenna and it made a big difference for me getting 7, 11 and 13. My antennas are actually below my roof line and pointing to a hill slope of my street which in turn is the direction of the NYC towers. Why my antennas are not on the roof is another story.

As an aside I can't remember if I shared this with you but I made a small mod to the CM4228 that seemed to improve UHF performance. It also helps to protect the whisker elements from corrosion.

If you want to see it go to this link and see the pictures of the changes I made with aluminum tubing.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/186...ld-cm-4228a-4248a-3023-hardware-hacks-20.html


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## Jay Stone

LenL said:


> The CM4228 is an amazing antenna but it is not a very good VHF antenna if you are far from the broadcast towers. That is why I added a small VHF antenna and it made a big difference for me getting 7, 11 and 13. My antennas are actually below my roof line and pointing to a hill slope of my street which in turn is the direction of the NYC towers. Why my antennas are not on the roof is another story.
> 
> As an aside I can't remember if I shared this with you but I made a small mod to the CM4228 that seemed to improve UHF performance. It also helps to protect the whisker elements from corrosion.
> 
> If you want to see it go to this link and see the pictures of the changes I made with aluminum tubing.
> 
> http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/186...ld-cm-4228a-4248a-3023-hardware-hacks-20.html




I would like to see it, but the link seems to being me to the main forum page?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LenL

Jay Stone,

I'm not having an issue with the link so I don't know what the issue is. 

If you keep having an issue you can pm me with your email address and I will email you pictures and an explanation.


----------



## Trip in VA

Now that WWOR has dropped 5-3 and added WRNN, can someone tell me if:

1) 48-1 is in 1080i or 720p?

2) 48-2 and/or 48-3 are in widescreen 480i?

Thanks.

- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

Trip in VA said:


> Now that WWOR has dropped 5-3 and added WRNN, can someone tell me if:
> 
> 1) 48-1 is in 1080i or 720p?
> 
> 2) 48-2 and/or 48-3 are in widescreen 480i?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> - Trip


48-1 is 720p
48-2 Stadium is 480i with letterboxed 16:9 content (black bars on top and bottom)
48-3 Arirang is 480i widescreen (fills entire screen)


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks. I'd have collected the info from the tuner at my grandmother's house, but someone decided to reset the router, and now it's offline again.

- Trip


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## speedlaw

LenL said:


> The CM4228 is an amazing antenna but it is not a very good VHF antenna if you are far from the broadcast towers.
> 
> Agreed. Mine worked, but my older Yagi was better. Still, locked is locked, in the digital world.


----------



## LenL

The 1WTC Mystery

Anyone know the latest on who is now broadcasting from 1WTC?

Last I saw only WPIX (11.1) and WXTV (41.1) were staying at the ESB. I could have this wrong.

Not sure if everyone else has moved yet or about to. Plans with dates seem to be a well guarded secret for some reason!


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## Trip in VA

As far as I know, the current arrangement for the New York full-power stations is this:

WCBS - 1WTC
WNBC/WNJU - 1WTC
WNYW - ESB (move to 1WTC pending)
WABC - ESB
WWOR/WRNN - 1WTC
WPIX - ESB
WNET - ESB (move to 1WTC pending)
WLIW - Long Island (Will move to 1WTC with the repack in 2019)
WNYE - 4TS
WPXN - 1WTC
WJLP - 4TS (move to 1WTC requested, not yet acted on by FCC)
WXTV/WFUT - ESB
WEDW/WZME - Connecticut (addition of DTS site on ESB requested, not yet acted on by FCC)
WMBC - DTS site in NJ and on ESB (move to 1WTC without DTS requested, not yet acted on by FCC)

- Trip


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## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> The 1WTC Mystery
> 
> Anyone know the latest on who is now broadcasting from 1WTC?
> 
> Last I saw only WPIX (11.1) and WXTV (41.1) were staying at the ESB. I could have this wrong.
> 
> Not sure if everyone else has moved yet or about to. Plans with dates seem to be a well guarded secret for some reason!



WABC is yet to commit.

Beside inside information, the best way to possibly determine plans and dates is to read FCC filings.

Concerning dates, beyond what the FCC filings may state, then there's reality -weather, delivery of 
components and management problems at Durst.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> For those who are already having trouble with receiving WCBS since its move to 1WTC,
> get ready to blow a gasket!
> 
> The station has just informed the FCC that it will be REDUCING its power by approximately
> 36% for a period of up to 6 months, starting mid-April.
> 
> This is to allow work on the mast.
> 
> If WCBS's lease at ESB weren't about to expire, why in heaven's name did it move when
> it did????
> 
> Also, WNJU/WNBC has requested more time to move from the Upper UHF Antenna to the
> Lower Antenna. NBCUniversal has said that the move could take months - the Lower UHF
> Antenna is still not operational!
> 
> So much for the world's most advanced television transmission facility!!!!!!!


I assume this is why I am having horrible reception problems with WCBS. What I do not understand is why the reception goes from OK to marginal to none in what appears to be random fluctuations even in good weather. Can anyone shed some light on this?


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## ALP

Something really bad must have happened on the 1WTC antenna. My wife just woke up so I switched on the TV. CBS, NBC and Channel 9 (HDTV) are gone. I get 9.2 which is SDTV (we do not watch Channel 9 at all ) . I think this is the list of current broadcast from 1WTC. Anyone have any information on what happened on to these channels???


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## Jay Stone

Did cbs also stop transmitting from their location on Long Island? I no longer can receive it, when that and WLNY TV55 were two of the easiest to receive channels for me out on Long Island.


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## Trip in VA

Jay Stone said:


> Did cbs also stop transmitting from their location on Long Island? I no longer can receive it, when that and WLNY TV55 were two of the easiest to receive channels for me out on Long Island.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just went digging and it was canceled by CBS in April 2017.

- Trip


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## Jay Stone

Trip in VA said:


> Just went digging and it was canceled by CBS in April 2017.
> 
> - Trip




2017 or 2018? It was still working a couple of weeks ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Trip in VA

Jay Stone said:


> 2017 or 2018? It was still working a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Letter says 2017, which is why I said it, but looking at it again, I see the receipt date was in 2018 so I'm guessing that was a mistake and it should have read 2018.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f9162bbecd30163019751ea0665

- Trip


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## nyctveng

ALP said:


> Something really bad must have happened on the 1WTC antenna. My wife just woke up so I switched on the TV. CBS, NBC and Channel 9 (HDTV) are gone. I get 9.2 which is SDTV (we do not watch Channel 9 at all ) . I think this is the list of current broadcast from 1WTC. Anyone have any information on what happened on to these channels???


Nothing happened


----------



## mets18

*Wlny*

Is there any chance that WLNY appears as a subchannel on WCBS?


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## tld

ALP said:


> Something really bad must have happened on the 1WTC antenna. My wife just woke up so I switched on the TV. CBS, NBC and Channel 9 (HDTV) are gone. I get 9.2 which is SDTV (we do not watch Channel 9 at all ) . I think this is the list of current broadcast from 1WTC. Anyone have any information on what happened on to these channels???


I had some pixelation issues with NBC tonight but now (sometime before 10 PM tonight) I totally lost NBC. Looking at the signal my signal error quality has totally dropped to 0:



Code:


ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=80 snq=42 seq=0 bps=12287680 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=79 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=79 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=80 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=80 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19595616 pps=0

Something certainly seems very wrong for sure. 9.1 seems OK however

Tom


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## tld

Wow...an interesting thing I hadn't noticed until tonight: My MythTV records from NBC 4.1 after the move...that is recordings in the original MPEG TS format...are literally _half_ the size they used to be. A one hour show is around 3.5 GB which is the size of a 1/2 hour show before the move. I still have recordings to prove it. That sucks. Why should I be surprised with Comcast being allowed to buy one of the few free OTA stations right? Add it to the list of reasons that should have never been allowed.

Tom


----------



## ALP

tld said:


> I had some pixelation issues with NBC tonight but now (sometime before 10 PM tonight) I totally lost NBC. Looking at the signal my signal error quality has totally dropped to 0:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=80 snq=42 seq=0 bps=12287680 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=79 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=79 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19336928 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=80 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
> ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=80 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19595616 pps=0
> 
> Something certainly seems very wrong for sure. 9.1 seems OK however
> 
> Tom


Tom, If I asked this before please forgive me, I forget things more as I age, where in the viewing area are you located. I have never had problems with NBC before today. Both NBC and CBS returned around 3 PM today. All was fine until about 10 PM when CBS started pixalating badly, however, NBC seems to still be good. I will see how things are tomorrow. I cannot understand why only the 1WTC channels seem to have a problem. I am due north of both the ESB and 1WTC. I was worried the ~ 5 mile greater distance to 1WTC would affect my reception, but as I said I have had NO problems with NBC until today. I have, however, had more problems with CBS for at least a month which I assume are due to its power reduction.


----------



## ALP

nyctveng said:


> Nothing happened


How do you know nothing happened? I have no idea what it means to be a broadcast professional. Are you part of the engineering team at 1WTC that actually does the broadcasting of the signal? I would love to be enlightened as to why the broadcast signal for CBS and NBC disappeared for the first half of today and then reappeared. If it is due to troposphere activity why did it not effect the ESB channels? As a retired Ph.D. physicist I am really trying to understand what is going on here and would seriously appreciate any help you could give me.


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## Trip in VA

Yesterday was a very good day for tropospheric ducting. Someone I know in Poughkeepsie was receiving stations from Virginia and North Carolina yesterday.

- Trip


----------



## ALP

Trip in VA said:


> Yesterday was a very good day for tropospheric ducting. Someone I know in Poughkeepsie was receiving stations from Virginia and North Carolina yesterday.
> 
> - Trip


Trip, Thanks for the input. According to google 1WTC is 338 feet taller than the ESB. Is that enough of a difference that there could be troposphere effect impacting signals from 1WTC not not impacting signals from the ESB?


----------



## Trip in VA

Could be. Also depends on what stations the ducting is bringing in.

- Trip


----------



## tld

ALP said:


> Tom, If I asked this before please forgive me, I forget things more as I age, where in the viewing area are you located.


I'm in central NJ. NBC came back for me within an hour of loosing it totally last night as I'd posted. It appears mostly back to normal (or what's been "normal" since the move) today. My guess is that Trip's answer above may explain all the dissimilar things we're seeing.

Tom


----------



## LenL

I have been monitoring the reception complaints and so far I have not seen anything unusual at my location 30 miles to the west inland from the NY broadcast towers. Tropo issues may be impacting those closer to the coasts where there has been lots of moisture and fog just off the coast during the day and then rolling in to shore at night.


----------



## ALP

Guys, Thank you all for these inputs. I expect that troposphere is some of the problem, but I expect that most of my troubles with CBS are due to its low power (see SnellKrell's Post 19081). I hope they get finished sooner than six months.


----------



## Jay Stone

Trip in VA said:


> Yesterday was a very good day for tropospheric ducting. Someone I know in Poughkeepsie was receiving stations from Virginia and North Carolina yesterday.
> 
> - Trip




Yes, on Long Island pointed at Connecticut I was picking up stations in Massachusetts last night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Riverside_Guy

Kind of a newb to broadcast OTA, having just recently cut out my "TV" cable subscription (I love the irony, all the self professed "cord cutters" wouldn't dare touch the cord as they'd lose Internet and all streaming). Upper west side Manhattan (half a block from the river), top floor of my building, got one of those flat square antenna's, have it high up on a south facing window (that looks on tons and tons of clear sky as the building across from me to the south is the same height as mine is). Did the whole tuning on the TV, found every single channels it received came is perfectly (yeah some of the SD ones were kind blurry, but not from reception but resolution). Which I kind of expected given I have such an ideal position for the antenna. FYI, one the main network HD channels I could swear I was getting a better picture than I did with the cable package... but that is to be expected.

So last night, wanted to catch some of the Yankee games on PIX-11. Huh, black screen? I immediately started checking all the channels... the final tally was everything came in perfectly EXCEPT all the 11 variants (all black) AND all the 13 variants did show video/audio, but with a lot of white rectangles and picture breakup showing... unwatchable.

*How can this be*, what is happening here? Just checked it again, 11 and it's variants are all black. Matter of fact, after 20 seconds or so I see the TV popping up a "searching for signal" dialog.


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## Trip in VA

Flat square antennas are bad on VHF frequencies like 7, 11, and 13. Using an antenna properly designed for both VHF and UHF will likely get you the signals you seek.

- Trip


----------



## FrankH3rd

Solar panels on roof: I am considering installing solar panels on my roof. I have two suburban antennas in attic. One for NYC, other for Phila. Currently great reception for both here in central NJ. Am concerned that solar panels may cause problems with OTA reception. Panels on roof will be 3 or 4 feet above antennas. Could cause reflectivity problems. Could cause TVI problems. Anyone have experience with solar panels and OTA reception? Did addition of solar panels on your roof degrade good reception from antennas???


----------



## LenL

FrankH3rd said:


> Solar panels on roof: I am considering installing solar panels on my roof. I have two suburban antennas in attic. One for NYC, other for Phila. Currently great reception for both here in central NJ. Am concerned that solar panels may cause problems with OTA reception. Panels on roof will be 3 or 4 feet above antennas. Could cause reflectivity problems. Could cause TVI problems. Anyone have experience with solar panels and OTA reception? Did addition of solar panels on your roof degrade good reception from antennas???


While I have solar panels on my roof I did not have antennas in the attic either. They were a few feet from the panels on the roof but closer to the broadcast towers. I saw no impact from my solar panels. After a house fire and doing away with my chimney after the fire my antennas are now below my roof line.


----------



## FrankH3rd

LenL said:


> While I have solar panels on my roof I did not have antennas in the attic either. They were a few feet from the panels on the roof but closer to the broadcast towers. I saw no impact from my solar panels. After a house fire and doing away with my chimney after the fire my antennas are now below my roof line.


Len, thanks for feedback. I also found this interesting discussion thread on avsforum:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...uld-solar-panels-interfere-attic-antenna.html

So this is my quandary. By cancelling my Comcast triple play last year, just subscribing for internet connection, going OTA with antenna, and also Directv Now for "cable channels" at $35 per month, I am saving about $120 per month, $1440 per year. I could reduce my electric bill about another $1400 per year by installing a 5kw solar panel system on my roof (after an 18 month payback period). That's great, but not if it wipes out the saving from my OTA antenna reception. (Directv Now not a total solution, still need antenna- DTV Now does not carry PBS, also I would exceed Comcast 1 TB monthly limit if only source of tv was streaming).

The discussion thread noted above was equivocal about solar panel impacts, so I have more research to do.


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## LenL

I could see solar would be an issue if your antenna is aimed towards the broadcast towers and your solar panels are now in the direct path. 

On the other hand your solar panel installers would probably be easily convinced to install you antennas out doors for you at minimal cost since they will have ladders etc to work on your roof. A great opportunity to get you antennas mounted outside.


----------



## FrankH3rd

That's a good thought, the solar panel installer would indeed mount the antennas outside if it meant a sale. Now I just need to convince my wife that antennas hanging on the house look cool!


----------



## LenL

FrankH3rd said:


> That's a good thought, the solar panel installer would indeed mount the antennas outside if it meant a sale. Now I just need to convince my wife that antennas hanging on the house look cool!


Just tell her the attic is getting cleaned out so she can store more crap up there!


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Trip in VA said:


> Flat square antennas are bad on VHF frequencies like 7, 11, and 13. Using an antenna properly designed for both VHF and UHF will likely get you the signals you seek.
> 
> - Trip


Seriously? I am FOUR (4) miles from the broadcast antenna and it's blank? 7 and 9 are fine. Did they design a notch filter into it to totally block 11? So what is a "properly designed" antenna for indoor use when I am almost on top of the broadcast antennas? 99% of the marketing for ANY antenna seems to go all out for distance reception... which is of little matter to me.

Gets weirder. I remembered I had 2 co-axial inputs on my TV, one labeled ANT, the other ANT/CABLE. Thinking there are 2 separately accessible inputs, I hooked up a pair of rabbit ears I had laying around. Only to find that the TV itself only has one input it calls "TV." Looks like I can't switch between the 2 antennas. Now for the weird part... spun around the channels. OMG there is 11! Not only that, but all it's sub variants AND the main channel was in 1080i/Dolby Digital. 13 is clear as a bell as well.

All from plugging in some rabbit ears into an input the best I can tell the TV is not using? Something really strange is going on here... no signal one day, a great signal the next one? Atmospherics at work here (being so damned close, hard to believe that would be an issue, but I'm no engineer!)?


----------



## nyctveng

Riverside_Guy said:


> Seriously? I am FOUR (4) miles from the broadcast antenna and it's blank? 7 and 9 are fine. Did they design a notch filter into it to totally block 11? So what is a "properly designed" antenna for indoor use when I am almost on top of the broadcast antennas? 99% of the marketing for ANY antenna seems to go all out for distance reception... which is of little matter to me.


No notch filters in antenna, all mileage claims on indoor antennas are bogus. Flat antennas are NOT designed to pickup VHF but can. Just like a paper clip is not designed for OTA reception but many can easily pick up OTA with a paper clip stuck into a coax port.

Any proper VHF antenna would require long dipoles which are huge and unsightly.


----------



## LenL

Riverside_Guy said:


> Seriously? I am FOUR (4) miles from the broadcast antenna and it's blank? 7 and 9 are fine. Did they design a notch filter into it to totally block 11? So what is a "properly designed" antenna for indoor use when I am almost on top of the broadcast antennas? 99% of the marketing for ANY antenna seems to go all out for distance reception... which is of little matter to me.
> 
> Gets weirder. I remembered I had 2 co-axial inputs on my TV, one labeled ANT, the other ANT/CABLE. Thinking there are 2 separately accessible inputs, I hooked up a pair of rabbit ears I had laying around. Only to find that the TV itself only has one input it calls "TV." Looks like I can't switch between the 2 antennas. Now for the weird part... spun around the channels. OMG there is 11! Not only that, but all it's sub variants AND the main channel was in 1080i/Dolby Digital. 13 is clear as a bell as well.
> 
> All from plugging in some rabbit ears into an input the best I can tell the TV is not using? Something really strange is going on here... no signal one day, a great signal the next one? Atmospherics at work here (being so damned close, hard to believe that would be an issue, but I'm no engineer!)?


Riverside,

Actually you can switch between the 2 antennas easily. There are small passive splitter devices where you can bring 2 feeds in and have one coax out and it has a switch where you can choose which feed to pass to your TV. This can be setup right by your TV or wherever you want it.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Hope you realized my "notch filter" comment was said tongue in cheek, i.e. facetiously... I doubt they engineer it like that!

Yes I kinda thought about a splitter, BUT so far, my voodoo move seems to be paying off. The dipole is up, plugged into an input I can not access BUT my high VHF (i.e., 11 & 13) continue to be received just peachy fine (been checking it a few times a day). Yeah, kinda unsightly, but w/e.

Honestly, my angst was pretty much based on wanting to catch the occasional Yankee game, they seem to be having a very fun season so far. Since I ditched the cable TV package a couple of months ago, it's been exactly one time I went to look at OTA... and encountered that black "no signal" screen!


----------



## reddice

Local OTA reception is still so unreliable and now looks like garbage with the over compression. To bad cable TV does not offer local only packages as they have better picture quality and are much more reliable.


----------



## SnellKrell

reddice said:


> Local OTA reception is still so unreliable and now looks like garbage with the over compression. To bad cable TV does not offer local only packages as they have better picture quality and are much more reliable.


On April 27th you wrote -

" I am done with OTA reception … "

Have you changed your mind?


----------



## Aero 1

reddice said:


> Local OTA reception is still so unreliable and now looks like garbage with the over compression. To bad cable TV does not offer local only packages as they have better picture quality and are much more reliable.


every single cable company in this area offers a local only package. Id tell you to google it, but you'll just complain that google sucks, it doesnt work and its not kid friendly, like you have done many times in the past.

OTA is perfectly reliable for me and havent had any issues in 10 years.


----------



## LenL

I have Optimum triple play as well as use antennas for local TV and recording with my 3 DVR+.

I would say with my eyes that OTA picture quality for the local stations is better than Optimum cable. Of course with OTA there are reception issues from time to time.


----------



## dstoffa

reddice said:


> Local OTA reception is still so unreliable and now looks like garbage with the over compression. To bad cable TV does not offer local only packages as they have better picture quality and are much more reliable.


They do. It's called Broadcast Basic or StarterTV. They are REQUIRED to offer it. However, you will soon discover that it's a rip-off.

It typically costs between $20 and $25 per month, before the "Broadcast TV Surcharge" is added, which typically brings the monthly tally to $30-$32 per month. But wait... You will need to rent equipment for every set you wish to watch... And that adds between $6 and $12 per month per set.

You'll soon be paying north of $40 per month for television programming those broadcasters give away for free to those who use an antenna....

Retransmission fees have gotten out of hand. And the broadcast stations exploit the fact that they must be carried on the Broadcast Basic Tier, which every video subscriber must purchase in order to order any other type of programming. I think FCC regulations on re-transmission fees needs to be revised to read that if a broadcast station elects to collect re-transmission fees, the station moves off the Broadcast Basic Tier and must be offered a-la-carte.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

dstoffa said:


> You'll soon be paying north of $40 per month for television programming those broadcasters give away for free to those who use an antenna....


That's not entirely accurate. All cable companies throw in bonus channels you may not be able to find OTA. C-SPAN (either some or all three channels), evine, Liquidation Channel, Public Access (FiOS offers the best with the most variety), and news channels like News 12 and Spectrum's NY 1, and/or music channels oftentimes fill out the skinniest package offerings.

But even with those enhancements, the reality is that subscribers to this tier of service are getting the least value for their dollars which essentially is extinguished once tier fees are imposed.


----------



## dstoffa

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> That's not entirely accurate. All cable companies throw in bonus channels you may not be able to find OTA. C-SPAN (either some or all three channels), evine, Liquidation Channel, Public Access (FiOS offers the best with the most variety), and news channels like News 12 and Spectrum's NY 1, and/or music channels oftentimes fill out the skinniest package offerings.
> 
> But even with those enhancements, the reality is that subscribers to this tier of service are getting the least value for their dollars which essentially is extinguished once tier fees are imposed.


The value of CSPAN to the vast majority of viewers is minimal. CSPAN gets 6 cents per month to fund their programming. I believe that home shopping channels either pay to be on the basic tier, or the cable companies rake the profits from sales made on the channel on their system. The local 'cable' news programs have fallen off in recent years. I subscribe to this tier up in Sullivan County, and do get a couple of meaty bones thrown in as a result of my township's grandfathered carriage agreement for my $32.74 per month (before taxes and equipment fees), such as ESPN, FX, CNN, TNT, Discovery, and WGNA. I do not get music channels (MusicChoice, SiriusXM, etc) with this package, but I do get local radio over cable. I will lose everything but WGNA if I migrate to any new Spectrum pricing plan - but I'd still pay the same price for this tier (StarterTV), and get considerably less - I've looked into it, but for other reasons (internet speeds). I know my situation is the exception, not the rule.

The cost of this (StarterTV) package was $13.15 per month, no equipment required, 10 years ago. It is now $32.74 + equipment fees. This FCC report shows that the average TV station now receives more than $1 per month in re-transmission fees. For the NY market, that adds up quickly (although I assume that some channels command a much higher fee than others).

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-1166A1_Rcd.pdf

See Table 10. The networks are raking it in on re-transmission fees:

https://www.fiercecable.com/broadcasting/cbs-earned-1b-broadcast-retransmission-fees-2016
https://www.fiercecable.com/broadca...es-expected-to-reach-12-8b-by-2023-kagan-says

The majority of that $13.15 used to go to the cable company to run the plant. I figure more than half of the current cost goes to the networks and station owners as re-transmission fees. And everything that I (would) pay for (if I migrated to a new Spectrum plan), I could get for free with an antenna if I wasn't down in a valley... I'd use OTA for the broadcast channels, and an OTT solution (SlingTV, YT, DirecTV Now, etc.) for Pay channels.

The prices that are presented on television for triple plays and the like never include the Broadcast TV surcharge, the Sports Programming Surcharge, and equipment rental fees. It's always disclosed in the fine print for a fraction of the length of the ad. (That grinds my gears, too, but is a topic for another discussion).

I agree with your last statement, however. The value for this tier has fallen off considerably in recent times.


----------



## MeatChicken




----------



## LenL

What the F......just when I thought I saw it all!

How much does it sell for? I don't care if it works! It is a conversation piece! Maybe even art!


----------



## cheerful

I am not getting any signal for channel 4.0 (NBC). Other (at least 2.0, 5.0, 7.0) are OK. Does anyone know what's going on?


Thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

cheerful said:


> I am not getting any signal for channel 4.0 (NBC). Other (at least 2.0, 5.0, 7.0) are OK. Does anyone know what's going on?
> 
> 
> Thanks


Just checked, WNBC (4.1) coming in loud and clear.


----------



## cheerful

SnellKrell said:


> Just checked, WNBC (4.1) coming in loud and clear.



Looks like I just need to do a rescan. The broadcast has changed its frequency, I think and I have not watched it for a long time.


----------



## SnellKrell

cheerful said:


> Looks like I just need to do a rescan. The broadcast has changed its frequency, I think and I have not watched it for a long time.


Yes, WNBC is now being transmitted by its sister station, WNJU via RF Channel 36 from 1WTC.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Funny, I seem to have read lots about how OTA gave better quality than cable (assume you know, everything coming down the cable wire IS very much compressed)... but a lot of that WAS back in the HD days as it was becoming THE standard.

BUT my little saga took it's own twist, First, I never imagine OTA to be essentially binary... I can remember getting a spectrum tange of "qualities" to the signal given fussing with the antenna. It NEVER was good, then garbled. So when I first did the "tuning" to the TV, it worked great. Some months later (I don't watch much if it anyway) one channel is black, no signal. I keep trying (2-3 times per day at various hurs) it and it's always that way. About a week or so later, BOOM, now I'm getting perfect signal. 4-5 days later, BOOM, black, no signal. Very binary. Makes no sense to me that it should be that way... I AM curious to learn more about how this can happen. In the meantime, bought a switch, pulled out my dipole and I can switch to a perfect picture on 11 and 13.

I THINK SpecDumb has some kind of 20 buck package of locals and maybe a few other channels, but add in fees and it's probably 23, 6 months ater it's "oh that is a promoti0n rate, now we have to charge you the right rice, 25/mo. Geting cose tgo 30 bucks a month, NO THANK YOU.


----------



## reddice

OTA channels are so over-compressed that even the Dish and DirecTV feeds looks better and they are way more reliable even in bad weather because they use spot-beams.


----------



## HoundBaby

Does anyone have a list of stations are currently broadcasting form the World Trade Center.


----------



## SnellKrell

HoundBaby said:


> Does anyone have a list of stations are currently broadcasting form the World Trade Center.


The following is via Trip at RabbitEars -

Currently transmitting from 1WTC:

WCBS

WNJU/WNBC

WPXN

WWOR

Soon:

WNET

WNYW

8/2/19:

WLIW

As Trip has reported, WJLP and WMBC have requested permission to move to 1WTC but those stations are not repacked 
and the applications have yet to be approved.


----------



## MeatChicken

Riverside_Guy said:


> , "... First, I never imagine OTA to be essentially binary... I can remember getting a spectrum tange of "qualities" to the signal given fussing with the antenna. It NEVER was good, then garbled. So when I first did the "tuning" to the TV, it worked great. Some months later (I don't watch much if it anyway) one channel is black, no signal. I keep trying (2-3 times per day at various hurs) it and it's always that way. About a week or so later, BOOM, now I'm getting perfect signal. 4-5 days later, BOOM, black, no signal. Very binary. Makes no sense to me that it should be that way... * I AM curious to learn more about how this can happen*..


 Digital signals are generally "all or nothing" in terms of viewing or listening .. ...
Think of a vinyl LP , vs a Digital CD player ..
You can take your fist and "bang" on the CD player, to the point where the music cuts out completely, but you will never hear the hiss, pops, clicks that made vinyl "poor but listenable" .. the CD audio will be either perfectly listenable, or "gone" .. likewise with Digital TV signals ...


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Hmmm, seems I made a bad assumption that a dipole pair of rabbit ears only worked wth analog signals... perhaps a batter question is are ALL NYC locals broadcasting in digital... or better are there ANY analog broadcast stations in these parts?

Honestly, been using cable for 40 some odd years so never paid much attention to the tech of OTA broadcast. I also thought (incorrectly) I'd be getting a load of Yankee games this season... ooops, now I see there was something like 21 of 162 that actually broadcast in OTA!


----------



## MeatChicken

Riverside_Guy said:


> Hmmm, seems I made a bad assumption that a dipole pair of rabbit ears only worked wth analog signals... perhaps a batter question is are ALL NYC locals broadcasting in digital... or better are there ANY analog broadcast stations in these parts?


 All major stations are digital ...
I forget the exact FCC specifics ( I'm sure someone will chime in with Info) ... The may still be an analog carve-out exception for some few low power/ experimental/college type stations, but I'm not sure if any are in this viewing area, & I'm sure it's not what you are looking for ...


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Ah, so the single challenge to OTA is kinda needing to run 2 different designs of antennas, even if one has an almost ideal location for a flat one like I do. I almost feel like I'm back in the sixties (although in those days, OTA reception was worthless unless you had a direct LOS to the tower).


----------



## SnellKrell

Riverside_Guy said:


> Ah, so the single challenge to OTA is kinda needing to run 2 different designs of antennas, even if one has an almost ideal location for a flat one like I do. I almost feel like I'm back in the sixties (although in those days, OTA reception was worthless unless you had a direct LOS to the tower).


I think things are getting confused here.

First, there is absolutely nothing like a digital or analog antenna!!!!

That is in spite of what even reputable marketers say.

There are, though, several differences between VHF and UHF antennas.

What type of antenna or antennas to use is based on your location
and the inherent "quirks" of transmission.

I live in midtown Manhattan and use a highly directional, indoor UHF 
antenna to receive both VHF and UHF stations - I even receive WJLP,
RF3 with a strong and steady signal. Go figure!

In a previous location I had to use rabbit ears for VHF combined with 
my UHF antenna.


----------



## Aero 1

SnellKrell said:


> I think things are getting confused here.
> 
> First, there is absolutely nothing like a digital or analog antenna!!!!
> 
> That is in spite of what even reputable marketers say.
> 
> There are, though, several differences between VHF and UHF antennas.
> 
> What type of antenna or antennas to use is based on your location
> and the inherent "quirks" of transmission.
> 
> I live in midtown Manhattan and use a highly directional, indoor UHF
> antenna to receive both VHF and UHF stations - I even receive WJLP,
> RF3 with a strong and steady signal. Go figure!
> 
> In a previous location I had to use rabbit ears for VHF combined with
> my UHF antenna.


yup.



Riverside_Guy said:


> Ah, so the single challenge to OTA is kinda needing to run 2 different designs of antennas, even if one has an almost ideal location for a flat one like I do. I almost feel like I'm back in the sixties (although in those days, OTA reception was worthless unless you had a direct LOS to the tower).


you fell for the marketing of those garbage flat antennas. The laws of physics havent changed when the switch to digital happened, even in the 60's you needed 2 different designs of antennas.


----------



## reddice

Do they sell roof antenna's that can point in all direction at the same time?


----------



## SnellKrell

reddice said:


> Do they sell roof antenna's that can point in all direction at the same time?


Yes!


----------



## mets18

SnellKrell said:


> I think things are getting confused here.
> 
> First, there is absolutely nothing like a digital or analog antenna!!!!
> 
> That is in spite of what even reputable marketers say.
> 
> There are, though, several differences between VHF and UHF antennas.
> 
> What type of antenna or antennas to use is based on your location
> and the inherent "quirks" of transmission.
> 
> I live in midtown Manhattan and use a highly directional, indoor UHF
> antenna to receive both VHF and UHF stations - I even receive WJLP,
> RF3 with a strong and steady signal. Go figure!
> 
> In a previous location I had to use rabbit ears for VHF combined with
> my UHF antenna.


If you don't mind my asking which highly directional indoor UHF antenna do you use?


----------



## SnellKrell

mets18 said:


> If you don't mind my asking which highly directional indoor UHF antenna do you use?


Silver Sensor 

Unfortunately, no longer available.

It was designed by the BBC - highly directional, great for fighting multipath signals.


----------



## Trip in VA

You can get a Silver Sensor knock-off from AliExpress, but you have to provide your own stand for it.


- Trip


----------



## d3193

Trip in VA said:


> You can get a Silver Sensor knock-off from AliExpress, but you have to provide your own stand for it.
> 
> 
> - Trip


Thanks Trip. I just ordered one.
I'm 2 blocks from ESB and about to lose all my OTA channels with the move downtown.


----------



## SnellKrell

d3193 said:


> Thanks Trip. I just ordered one.
> I'm 2 blocks from ESB and about to lose all my OTA channels with the move downtown.


Just found a version of the Silver Sensor, with a stand, on Amazon's U.K. site.


----------



## tld

reddice said:


> OTA channels are so over-compressed that even the Dish and DirecTV feeds looks better and they are way more reliable even in bad weather because they use spot-beams.


You've posted several times about OTA being over-compressed, and I've never found that to be the case with NY OTA _until_ the recent move of NBC, which also seems to have included a change in their actual encoding and/or compression. My MythTV system records OTA as-is in it's original format, and I've always found that NY OTA stations in 720p tend to run at least 3 GB / hour in size, and 1080i stations well over 6 GB / hour.

However with NBC 4.1 since that move, the recordings are literally 1/2 the size I've ever seen for 1080i...actually smaller than other 720p recordings. I have two recording of episodes of the same show (Champions), both a half hour long. They both report a video bitrate of 24000000, though the older one has an audio bitrate of 384000 and the newer one is 192000. Note however that I checked that with mplayer -identify which can be wildly inaccurate with MPEG TS streams. However more importantly, again, the size difference it absurd. Here are the two files where the latter is the post-move file:


Code:


3.3G    1041_20180330013000.ts
1.6G    1703_20180526000000.ts

I've never seen the likes of that...totally sucks. As I've said before, you can thank the insanity of allowing Comcast to buy one of the few major free OTA stations. Only in America right? Aside from this I've always found OTA to be _much_ better quality than you'd ever get via cable or other sources.

Tom


----------



## trailblazer

tld said:


> You've posted several times about OTA being over-compressed, and I've never found that to be the case with NY OTA _until_ the recent move of NBC, which also seems to have included a change in their actual encoding and/or compression. My MythTV system records OTA as-is in it's original format, and I've always found that NY OTA stations in 720p tend to run at least 3 GB / hour in size, and 1080i stations well over 6 GB / hour.
> 
> However with NBC 4.1 since that move, the recordings are literally 1/2 the size I've ever seen for 1080i...actually smaller than other 720p recordings. I have two recording of episodes of the same show (Champions), both a half hour long. They both report a video bitrate of 24000000, though the older one has an audio bitrate of 384000 and the newer one is 192000. Note however that I checked that with mplayer -identify which can be wildly inaccurate with MPEG TS streams. However more importantly, again, the size difference it absurd. Here are the two files where the latter is the post-move file:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 3.3G    1041_20180330013000.ts
> 1.6G    1703_20180526000000.ts
> 
> I've never seen the likes of that...totally sucks. As I've said before, you can thank the insanity of allowing Comcast to buy one of the few major free OTA stations. Only in America right? Aside from this I've always found OTA to be _much_ better quality than you'd ever get via cable or other sources.
> 
> Tom


NBC from NY is dismal since WNBC & Telemundo are sharing the same channel (RF 36). Since I use PS Vue for locals as well as an OTA with Tivo, I get a sharper and more detailed picture from PS Vue than WNBC for the OTA.



Also, channels 10 (NBC) and 62 (Telemundo) are now sharing RF 34 in Philadelphia. Both are 1080i resolution along with their 480i sub-channels. At least the bit rate for WCAU is higher than WWSI. In New York the situation is the opposite, channel 47 (WNJU) has a higher bit rate than channel 4 (WNBC) and that's NBC's flag ship station.AT least channel 10 out of Philly looks a lot better than channel 4 in NYC because of there higher bit rate.


----------



## SnellKrell

trailblazer said:


> NBC from NY is dismal since WNBC & Telemundo are sharing the same channel (RF 36). Since I use PS Vue for locals as well as an OTA with Tivo, I get a sharper and more detailed picture from PS Vue than WNBC for the OTA.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, channels 10 (NBC) and 62 (Telemundo) are now sharing RF 34 in Philadelphia. Both are 1080i resolution along with their 480i sub-channels. At least the bit rate for WCAU is higher than WWSI. In New York the situation is the opposite, channel 47 (WNJU) has a higher bit rate than channel 4 (WNBC) and that's NBC's flag ship station.AT least channel 10 out of Philly looks a lot better than channel 4 in NYC because of there higher bit rate.


And NBC couldn't care less!

NBCUniversal (Comcast) received nearly a half-billion dollars for selling frequencies
in New York, Chicago and Philadelphia. The exact price was $481,600,000!

Beyond that, NBCUniversal will be/has been compensated multi-millions of dollars 
to cover the expenses incurred for changing channels.

So much for "the public's interest, convenience and necessity."


----------



## ALP

tld said:


> You've posted several times about OTA being over-compressed, and I've never found that to be the case with NY OTA _until_ the recent move of NBC, which also seems to have included a change in their actual encoding and/or compression. My MythTV system records OTA as-is in it's original format, and I've always found that NY OTA stations in 720p tend to run at least 3 GB / hour in size, and 1080i stations well over 6 GB / hour.
> 
> However with NBC 4.1 since that move, the recordings are literally 1/2 the size I've ever seen for 1080i...actually smaller than other 720p recordings. I have two recording of episodes of the same show (Champions), both a half hour long. They both report a video bitrate of 24000000, though the older one has an audio bitrate of 384000 and the newer one is 192000. Note however that I checked that with mplayer -identify which can be wildly inaccurate with MPEG TS streams. However more importantly, again, the size difference it absurd. Here are the two files where the latter is the post-move file:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 3.3G    1041_20180330013000.ts
> 1.6G    1703_20180526000000.ts
> 
> I've never seen the likes of that...totally sucks. As I've said before, you can thank the insanity of allowing Comcast to buy one of the few major free OTA stations. Only in America right? Aside from this I've always found OTA to be _much_ better quality than you'd ever get via cable or other sources.
> 
> Tom



Tom, I agree with you on OTA versus Direct TV or other satellite TV. My brother ( who lives in St. Louis ) has Direct TV. Any time he has significant rain he looses his signal completely. The only problem I have in the same kind of rain is CBS because they are currently broadcasting at 2/3 their normal power. I am not sure that with my Pioneer Kuro TV and Maggi HDTV DVR's that I am a sensitive to low bitrates and/or compression as you are. I also agree that letting a cable company (Comcast) own a broadcast TV network (NBC) seems like a huge conflict of interest with respect to maintaining high broadcast TV standards.


----------



## nyctveng

SnellKrell said:


> Silver Sensor
> 
> Unfortunately, no longer available.
> 
> It was designed by the BBC - highly directional, great for fighting multipath signals.


Great antenna. Too bad no longer in production as everyone makes those flat paper antennas that are hit or miss. I have found the old double bow ties (easily found on ebay) and the current 22 inch Channel Master CM3010HD which is an outdoor model but small enough to be used indoors are highly directional.


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> Great antenna. Too bad no longer in production as everyone makes those flat paper antennas that are hit or miss. I have found the old double bow ties (easily found on ebay) and the current 22 inch Channel Master CM3010HD which is an outdoor model but small enough to be used indoors are highly directional.


I found a version of the Silver Sensor on Amazon's UK website.

Search - Silver Sensor Aerial.


----------



## tld

ALP said:


> Tom, I agree with you on OTA versus Direct TV or other satellite TV. My brother ( who lives in St. Louis ) has Direct TV. Any time he has significant rain he looses his signal completely. The only problem I have in the same kind of rain is CBS because they are currently broadcasting at 2/3 their normal power. I am not sure that with my Pioneer Kuro TV and Maggi HDTV DVR's that I am a sensitive to low bitrates and/or compression as you are. I also agree that letting a cable company (Comcast) own a broadcast TV network (NBC) seems like a huge conflict of interest with respect to maintaining high broadcast TV standards.


I'm not sure I follow what you mean regarding being "sensitive to low bitrates" etc or what they would have to do with the antenna. Anyone picking up that same broadcast should be getting an identical binary stream unless they have reception issues bad enough to be dropping or getting incorrect data. However of course once that's received it might be getting transcoded to something else entirely (which some of the HD Homerun tuners can do if I recall).

I can't actually say I've noticed a huge difference in quality of NBC shows, thought it's hard to compare. It was mostly that I noticed the huge drop in the file sizes. That's actually surprising with a drop to half the bandwidth they were using...so at least they may be doing a decent job of compressing the crap out of it .

Tom


----------



## DrDon

ALP said:


> My brother ( who lives in St. Louis ) has Direct TV. Any time he has significant rain he looses his signal completely.


I realize it's a bit OT, but fine-tuning the dish positioning can mitigate that. I did a self-install at my Detroit house. Never lost the signal during even the heaviest rainfall. Only when I'd get more than an inch of snow on the dish did it fail. 

My place in FL was a D* contractor install. We get thunderstorms like clockwork during the summer. I will lose HD during the really heavy ones, but not SD. It got glitchy, but the HD signal held during Irma, which I really didn't expect. Haven't lost it during Alberto's rains, either. So.. he might look into getting someone to tweak on the dish to maximize reception. Too often, installers just get it to 80-90% on the conus transponders and call it a day. Promise a nice tip to peak it and they will.


----------



## ALP

tld said:


> I'm not sure I follow what you mean regarding being "sensitive to low bitrates" etc or what they would have to do with the antenna. Anyone picking up that same broadcast should be getting an identical binary stream unless they have reception issues bad enough to be dropping or getting incorrect data. However of course once that's received it might be getting transcoded to something else entirely (which some of the HD Homerun tuners can do if I recall).
> 
> I can't actually say I've noticed a huge difference in quality of NBC shows, thought it's hard to compare. It was mostly that I noticed the huge drop in the file sizes. That's actually surprising with a drop to half the bandwidth they were using...so at least they may be doing a decent job of compressing the crap out of it .
> 
> Tom



Tom, What I meant was I do not see any decline in the NBC PQ. My DVR's and TV's only display signal strength so I have no idea what the bitrates are.


----------



## LenL

Just FYI for us NYC OTA people. I copied this tidbit from the repacking forum. Not sure how valid it is:


The FCC today approved another early relocation. WLNY is going to relocate to ch 27 as early as on June 15th. Clearing Long Island, NY for T-Mobile. Then in a year it will relocate to the final ch 29 in phase 4. 



If they are doing this in a few weeks it will be news to viewers as I have not seen any crawlers or announcements as I view the 9 PM news.


----------



## dstoffa

nyctveng said:


> Great antenna. Too bad no longer in production as everyone makes those flat paper antennas that are hit or miss. I have found the old double bow ties (easily found on ebay) and the current 22 inch Channel Master CM3010HD which is an outdoor model but small enough to be used indoors are highly directional.



Well, someone should jump on designing a better UHF antenna... one that is designed for RF Channels 14-36 instead of 14-69. Older designs had to work over a wider range of frequencies, and performance suffered in order to create an antenna that worked "better overall". Now with the repack, new antennas should be designed to work on a more narrow band, and they'd be better performing.


http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> Just FYI for us NYC OTA people. I copied this tidbit from the repacking forum. Not sure how valid it is:
> 
> 
> The FCC today approved another early relocation. WLNY is going to relocate to ch 27 as early as on June 15th. Clearing Long Island, NY for T-Mobile. Then in a year it will relocate to the final ch 29 in phase 4.
> 
> 
> 
> If they are doing this in a few weeks it will be news to viewers as I have not seen any crawlers or announcements as I view the 9 PM news.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/wlny-10-55-rescan/


----------



## MeatChicken

Aero 1 said:


> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/wlny-10-55-rescan/


* From The NitPick Dept:*

That release states:
_"WLNY-TV 10/55 will be changing its physical channel assignment on June 15, 2018.
If you are using an over-the-air antenna, you will need to rescan your TV* by then* in order to watch WLNY-TV 10/55. _"

Seems like misleading wording that could confuse some people, since people need to scan AFTER the change, not before ..

Analogy example - " _ Park opens on June 15th.
If you want to get in, you will need to get a ticket *by then, *in order to use the park_ .." - Yet "The Park" tickets do not actually go on sale Until on/after the 15th ...

They should have used "on or after that date " in place of "by then" ...


----------



## NYC

ALP said:


> Tom, I agree with you on OTA versus Direct TV or other satellite TV. My brother ( who lives in St. Louis ) has Direct TV. Any time he has significant rain he looses his signal completely. The only problem I have in the same kind of rain is CBS because they are currently broadcasting at 2/3 their normal power. I am not sure that with my Pioneer Kuro TV and Maggi HDTV DVR's that I am a sensitive to low bitrates and/or compression as you are. I also agree that letting a cable company (Comcast) own a broadcast TV network (NBC) seems like a huge conflict of interest with respect to maintaining high broadcast TV standards.


I've noticed that NBC New York still transmits on 4.3 and 4.4. The programming is the same as 4.1 and 4.2. Just wondering if what is being transmitted is a separate stream (in other words 4 channels in English plus two more in Spanish for WNJU), or if the .3 and .4 are just mirrored somehow. If they are separate, any chance NBC will add new programming?


----------



## ALP

NYC said:


> I've noticed that NBC New York still transmits on 4.3 and 4.4. The programming is the same as 4.1 and 4.2. Just wondering if what is being transmitted is a separate stream (in other words 4 channels in English plus two more in Spanish for WNJU), or if the .3 and .4 are just mirrored somehow. If they are separate, any chance NBC will add new programming?



I thouht someone said earlier that they are mirrored.


----------



## Trip in VA

They're mirrored.

- Trip


----------



## HoundBaby

Trip in VA said:


> They're mirrored.
> 
> - Trip


4.3 and 4.4 was setup during the transition period between the Empire State Building and WTC. 4.1 and 4.2 were using the ESB transmitter and 4.3 and 4.4 were transmitting from the WTC on different frequencies. Since the Permanent move to the WTC 4.1 and 4.2 are now on the same frequency as 4.3 , 4.4, 47.1 and 47.2. Physical channel 36.


----------



## NYC

Riverside_Guy said:


> Hmmm, seems I made a bad assumption that a dipole pair of rabbit ears only worked wth analog signals... perhaps a batter question is are ALL NYC locals broadcasting in digital... or better are there ANY analog broadcast stations in these parts?
> 
> Honestly, been using cable for 40 some odd years so never paid much attention to the tech of OTA broadcast. I also thought (incorrectly) I'd be getting a load of Yankee games this season... ooops, now I see there was something like 21 of 162 that actually broadcast in OTA!


There was a local station still broadcasting in analog long after all of the others switched to digital. It was channel 6 here in New York. Since audio from analog TV on channel 6 can be picked up by most FM radios at 87.7, the owner of the station focused on trying to make a profit by operating as a radio station, and airing silent movies to fill the video portion. The FCC was not happy about the video and audio not matching, and the station eventually went off the air. I found it interesting and caught quite a few Charlie Chaplin flicks.


----------



## NYC

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> That's not entirely accurate. All cable companies throw in bonus channels you may not be able to find OTA. C-SPAN (either some or all three channels), evine, Liquidation Channel, Public Access (FiOS offers the best with the most variety), and news channels like News 12 and Spectrum's NY 1, and/or music channels oftentimes fill out the skinniest package offerings.
> 
> But even with those enhancements, the reality is that subscribers to this tier of service are getting the least value for their dollars which essentially is extinguished once tier fees are imposed.


Could I ask for clarification re the public access channels and how FiOS offers the best and most? The only thing I can think of is that they might carry more than what you would normally get in your area. For example, New York City has unique channels for each borough, and the cable company only lets you see the channels for your own area. Does FiOS let you see your own local public access channels and those from other nearby areas?


----------



## nyctveng

NYC said:


> I've noticed that NBC New York still transmits on 4.3 and 4.4. The programming is the same as 4.1 and 4.2. Just wondering if what is being transmitted is a separate stream (in other words 4 channels in English plus two more in Spanish for WNJU), or if the .3 and .4 are just mirrored somehow. If they are separate, any chance NBC will add new programming?


I explained this in an earlier post. They are not transmitted twice but mapped twice. Similar to how cable tv companies map popular channels in legacy channel slots in the 1-99 range then duplicate it again in the 100-1500 national lineup range.

4.3 and 4.4 will be removed when WNBC moves physical RF channels again.


----------



## nyctveng

NYC said:


> Could I ask for clarification re the public access channels and how FiOS offers the best and most? The only thing I can think of is that they might carry more than what you would normally get in your area. For example, New York City has unique channels for each borough, and the cable company only lets you see the channels for your own area. Does FiOS let you see your own local public access channels and those from other nearby areas?


If you have FIOS in the 5 boros, you will see the public access channels for your boro plus Brooklyn. For some reason they made a deal for Brooklyn public access channels to be seen city wide while the other 4 are only seen in their home boro. Most of the city's access channels are streamed online so if one needs to see this they can easily find it without a subscription to fios or cable.


----------



## rothe

Anybody else receiving nothing from WWOR? Granted that I'm 35 miles south of 1WTC, but the monster antenna on my roof has always picked this up 100%. No signal since around Thursday night.


----------



## HoundBaby

rothe said:


> Anybody else receiving nothing from WWOR? Granted that I'm 35 miles south of 1WTC, but the monster antenna on my roof has always picked this up 100%. No signal since around Thursday night.


I noticed it yesterday evening at about 7PM being dark. Just did a rescann and it like it doesn’t exist. A friend less than 10 miles from the WTC also is having the same problem.


----------



## nyctveng

HoundBaby said:


> I noticed it yesterday evening at about 7PM being dark. Just did a rescann and it like it doesn’t exist. A friend less than 10 miles from the WTC also is having the same problem.


Yes WWOR from WTC is down hard. Only area cable and satellite companies with a fiber feed are broadcasting them at the moment.


----------



## racerboom

I'm in Queens, and haven't been able to pick up WWOR channels since Friday night. Hopefully they get it fixed soon.


----------



## SnellKrell

racerboom said:


> I'm in Queens, and haven't been able to pick up WWOR channels since Friday night. Hopefully they get it fixed soon.


With Durst's track record for ineptitude at 1WTC's broadcast facility, wonder if this is another notch on their corporate belts?


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell said:


> With Durst's track record for ineptitude at 1WTC's broadcast facility, wonder if this is another notch on their corporate belts?



I just checked at my location and 9.1 was dark for me too 2:50 PM! So I did a re scan and it showed up so they must have changed it's real channel location. Showing RF 25 now. It used to be 38.


----------



## LenL

I think what we need is for a really good investigative reporter to go out in the field and find and interview us OTA folks and get the real facts on how we are being lied to about the technical improvements the broadcasters are touting from their ivory towers in the boardrooms of corporate America and how the FCC is aiding them in the big scam that is going down.


So far I have lost NJN Montclair and reception is now worst than ever on the stations broadcasting from NYC.


So much for OTA progress.


I can't wait for more of the repack and ATSC 3.0 and the further degrading of OTA with more change!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> I just checked at my location and 9.1 was dark for me too 2:50 PM! So I did a re scan and it showed up so they must have changed it's real channel location. Showing RF 25 now. It used to be 38.


The station hasn't been using Channel 38 for a while now!


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell said:


> The station hasn't been using Channel 38 for a while now!



I didn't think so but I have no idea why a re scan picked it up on 25 when I was receiving it previously and it was dark until I did a rescan?


----------



## Aero 1

WNBC has been down since 10 am or so. signal is not even transmitting.


----------



## SnellKrell

Aero 1 said:


> WNBC has been down since 10 am or so. signal is not even transmitting.


It's back on my set.

First no signal from WWOR and now WNBC.

What's next Durst?

Signals have already been reduced to allow work that should have been done last year.

When work had to be done on the ESB and signal strength reduced, most of that work
was done in the middle of the night.

The move to 1WTC has been a disaster for many of us.


----------



## darkegg

Aero 1 said:


> WNBC has been down since 10 am or so. signal is not even transmitting.


It's transmitting but at a lower power. My Signal Strength is HDHomerun is down from ~85% to around 40%. It can decode few frames but there's too much pixelation for it to be watchable.

Just as I was typing this post, it seems to be back to normal.


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> I didn't think so but I have no idea why a re scan picked it up on 25 when I was receiving it previously and it was dark until I did a rescan?


Now that you get WWOR on 25, your scan should have added WRNN on 48.1, 48.2, and 48.3 not that there's anything worthwhile on there.


----------



## LenL

Yup I now see that 4.1 NBC has a signal problem.


Also 7.1 and 11.1 VHF has degraded for me! Can't watch them with all the pixelation going on. Yikes!


NYC should be state of the art for OTA and a leader and instead we are like a S'hole country!


----------



## dstoffa

Aero 1 said:


> WNBC has been down since 10 am or so. signal is not even transmitting.



I had reception trouble during Game 5 of the Stanley Cup Finals last week... (fwiw)


----------



## reddice

LenL said:


> Yup I now see that 4.1 NBC has a signal problem.
> Also 7.1 and 11.1 VHF has degraded for me! Can't watch them with all the pixelation going on. Yikes!
> NYC should be state of the art for OTA and a leader and instead we are like a S'hole country!


Which is why I cancelled my TiVo service again after only 2 months.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Reading through these reception reports, it's clear these issues aren't isolated to one channel or one household. They are quite widespread. FWIW on my part, WPIX has a horrific signal when compared to its VHF-Hi counterparts. I'm thinking these reception complaints should be directed toward the station engineers, and perhaps even the FCC. It may be helpful for the TV stations and the governing agency who all may want to say everything is going perfectly well with the repack to receive some bad reception of their own. It's fine to look at the "interference studies" which may show a 0.00042 degree of interference to an adjacent station on paper, but that minute numeral may present destructive interference to the same adjacent station in the real world once the transmitter is powered up.


----------



## speedlaw

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Reading through these reception reports, it's clear these issues aren't isolated to one channel or one household. They are quite widespread. FWIW on my part, WPIX has a horrific signal when compared to its VHF-Hi counterparts. I'm thinking these reception complaints should be directed toward the station engineers, and perhaps even the FCC. It may be helpful for the TV stations and the governing agency who all may want to say everything is going perfectly well with the repack to receive some bad reception of their own. It's fine to look at the "interference studies" which may show a 0.00042 degree of interference to an adjacent station on paper, but that minute numeral may present destructive interference to the same adjacent station in the real world once the transmitter is powered up.


I thought it was me. My CM 4228 was knocked down by a storm. I reinstalled it, all the same, but for 5 feet less mast, so it is 10 feet, not 15, off my roof. All other channels are pretty much the same, but 11 pixellates. Thought it was me, but upon checking my prior list of signal strengths, 11 is less, while others are same.

On the plus side, there isn't anything on 11 we record.


----------



## nyctveng

SnellKrell said:


> It's back on my set.
> 
> 
> The move to 1WTC has been a disaster for many of us.



WNET supposedly is moving to 1WTC this week if they haven't already


----------



## darkegg

nyctveng said:


> WNET supposedly is moving to 1WTC this week if they haven't already


I think it has already moved. My hourly scans from hdhomerun indicates increase in power for the last few hours (plot attached).


----------



## HoundBaby

darkegg said:


> I think it has already moved. My hourly scans from hdhomerun indicates increase in power for the last few hours (plot attached).


As of now channel 13 has a stronger signal then chennel 7. Strongest VHF signal. Channel 11 is still hit or miss depending on the time of day . Channel 8 NJN which is south of me, has a stronger signal then channel 11. Low VHF channel 3 even has a stronger signal then 11.
I removed my old Radio Shack old larger VHF/UHF antenna and replaced it with a Antennas Direct Clearstream 2 max which has a single set of dipoles for VHF and a Winegard LNA200 preamp. Plus I’m about 27 + miles west from the ESB and WTC.


----------



## LenL

Houndbaby,


You are only a few miles to my east so I was wondering how you manage to get 8 NJN? Do you have a separate VHF antenna pointed to Basking Ridge or are you using a rotor?


My VHF antenna pointed to NYC does not pick up 8 NJN.


----------



## Trip in VA

WNET does appear to be on 1WTC, or is at least testing on 1WTC. They filed for program test authority today.


- Trip


----------



## sirius00

I just got my OTA put on the roof and received VHF and UHF big time. Then lost 7, 11, 13, NJN
after a recent storm - although I still get 2, 4, 5,9, 68 etc. Channel 11 Engineering advised me they are broadcasting full strength with no problems - I have an ANTOP Smartpass antenna.
ANTOP advises they don't think it's my antenna. I am thinking it must be the antenna - saw something somewhere that static electricity from thunderstorms can affect it.


----------



## rothe

Antop antenna - I'd be really surprised if a panel antenna like that does any good at all with VHF signals as far away as "central Jersey."


----------



## HoundBaby

LenL said:


> Houndbaby,
> 
> 
> You are only a few miles to my east so I was wondering how you manage to get 8 NJN? Do you have a separate VHF antenna pointed to Basking Ridge or are you using a rotor?
> 
> 
> My VHF antenna pointed to NYC does not pick up 8 NJN.


Here a couple of photos of the antenna that I am presently using, no rotor just pointed towards NYC as per antenna point. The VHF is only rated at 2.6 dBi. If I manually rotate the antenna a few degrees I then lose the signal from channel 8. Also 13 is looking fine and 11 is unwatchable at this time. A friend in Fairlawn NJ just check 11 on his OTA and its at 100% with a 30.00+ SNR.


----------



## Trip in VA

For those tracking the WJLP saga: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-351870A1.pdf


- Trip


----------



## LenL

HoundBaby said:


> Here a couple of photos of the antenna that I am presently using, no rotor just pointed towards NYC as per antenna point. The VHF is only rated at 2.6 dBi. If I manually rotate the antenna a few degrees I then lose the signal from channel 8. Also 13 is looking fine and 11 is unwatchable at this time. A friend in Fairlawn NJ just check 11 on his OTA and its at 100% with a 30.00+ SNR.



I'm surprised you get that much TV with that antenna. Denville is a nice location. Are you south or north of route 10?


----------



## LenL

sirius00 said:


> I just got my OTA put on the roof and received VHF and UHF big time. Then lost 7, 11, 13, NJN
> after a recent storm - although I still get 2, 4, 5,9, 68 etc. Channel 11 Engineering advised me they are broadcasting full strength with no problems - I have an ANTOP Smartpass antenna.
> ANTOP advises they don't think it's my antenna. I am thinking it must be the antenna - saw something somewhere that static electricity from thunderstorms can affect it.



I too have completely lost WPIX 11.1 and WABC 7.1.


Meanwhile 13.1 WNET is coming in great with strong signal and quality. The best I have seen in months!



No reason that I can come up with and when the WPIX engineers say all is well I have to wonder. Of course the person you spoke with may just be blowing you off and really has no clue or is not at liberty to say.


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> WNET does appear to be on 1WTC, or is at least testing on 1WTC. They filed for program test authority today.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I hope they keep doing what they are doing as they are the only VHF station I am receiving now and signal strength and quality are the best I have seen in many months.


----------



## reddice

WPIX has the worst reception and I would love it to move to 1WTC. It is also my most watched OTA station.


----------



## scorpiony

NYC UWS. WNET 13.1 has weakened drastically since the move to 1 WTC few days ago , I wonder why ?! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scorpiony

Forgot to attach screen shot :











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## darkegg

scorpiony said:


> NYC UWS. WNET 13.1 has weakened drastically since the move to 1 WTC few days ago , I wonder why ?!


I don't see any change. I've been monitoring my signal (see attachment). It's probably something else.


----------



## scorpiony

I see you are in Queens, UWS here (80s) maybe that’s the reason 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HoundBaby

LenL said:


> I hope they keep doing what they are doing as they are the only VHF station I am receiving now and signal strength and quality are the best I have seen in many months.


I am north of Rt 10, south of Rt 80 just off the Fox Hill Road overpass. I attached signal info for all the Hi Vhf channels and the one Low Vhf channel and one Uhf channel just for comparison . Also I just install the rear reflector on the Clearsteam 2 Max. I was getting dropouts on Channel 5 UHF44. this seems to have corrected that problem. I have to say that I am really surprised of the performance of the Clearstream 2 Max. now if only Channl 11 would get there act together.


----------



## SnellKrell

"The facility was designed with state-of-the-art equipment and also has the infrastructure for future
broadcasting technological advancements."

John Lyons
Assistant Vice President and Director of Broadcast Communications of the The Durst Organization


Today, marks the first anniversary of NBCUniversal's Channel 36 officially transmitting from 1 World Trade Center -
the facility's first broadcaster.

Please note that all of the information below has been gleaned from public, FCC filings and comments.

We, the New York area viewing public has not been served well by The Durst Organization!

Originally, WNJU/WNBC and their sub-channels were authorized by the FCC to transmit from 1WTC positioned on
the building's Lower UHF Antenna using a Directional pattern.

The Durst Organization had been informed by NBCUniversal of its technical specification and when its leases at 
the Empire State Building were to end.

Before Channel 36's 6/23/17 official start of transmission, there was a short period of testing. But, instead of the
expected position on the Lower UHF Antenna, using a Directional pattern, Channel 36 had to use the only operational
antenna at that time - the Upper UHF facility with a None directional pattern. The Lower UHF Antenna was not ready!

Having to use the Upper section, NBCUniversal still wanted to transmit using a Directional pattern. Durst could not
comply with this request claiming it was not able to provide additional power to fulfill that. So much for state-
of-the-art and the ability to meet broadcasters' needs. As of this writing, Channel 36 is still waiting to move to its
original, FCC authorized location. The Lower UHF Antenna is still not operational!

Next, in the litany of broken promises is the problem that WNYW has faced. Fox had committed to moving both of its
NY area stations, WWOR and WNYW to 1WTC. Both stations were authorized by the FCC to transmit from the Upper
UHF Antenna. WWOR has moved there, but WNYW has been denied its location on the Upper section. Once again,
Durst has claimed that the facility did not have the required power to live up to its obligation.

WNYW has filed with the Commission and has received approval to transmit from the Lower UHF Antenna.

Now, here's an interesting complication. WLIW has been authorized to transmit from the Upper UHF Antenna. 
If Durst could not accommodate WNYW there, how will WLIW be able to locate there???? 

If the above were not bad enough, while Durst has been working on finally bringing on board the Lower UHF Antenna
and the VHF section, stations have had to decrease their power to allow work on those new sections on the mast.

So, television stations, hoping to improve their signals by moving to 1 World Trade Center, have had to diminish their
signals frustrating a public that depends on Over-the-Air reception.

It's been a year now, and yes, there have been weather/wind problems in getting the facility fully operational, but I
have a strong feeling that weather cannot be the only problem.

Way in advance of television stations signing-off to make the move from the Empire State Building to 1 World Trade Center,
broadcasters provided The Durst Organization with detailed information which included technical needs and timing - all
authorized by the FCC. There were no secrets!

Happy Anniversary to what had been touted as the world's most advanced television transmission facility. Hardly a paragon
of American know how, leadership and professionalism.

SnellKrell


----------



## reddice

Any news on radio stations moving to 1WTC?


----------



## LenL

Snellkrell,


Thanks for the update! Just what some of us expected. Lot of self promotion and hype for 1 WTC but short on delivery. Of course there is no one like an investigative reporter in the news media following up with us folks that actually use antennas to get the facts on what is going on! So these organizations with the big bucks and press releases can lie at will and no one is the wiser.


----------



## LenL

Just wanted to let you know that Antennas Direct has on their website a broadcast station and reception finder. Don't know how many of you knew that.


https://www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html



Anyway I checked it out for our NYC area and found it to be woefully wrong. They never updated for the stations going to 1 WTC. So I communicated to them and they sent me this response:


Hi!


Thanks for bringing this to our attention. The database we are pulling from does not have the most updated signal information. Here is a more updated registry for reference.
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=1

Other than helping us improve our services, do you have any questions or concerns that I can help with?


Thanks again for letting us know 


Have a great day!


----------



## Trip in VA

I always like to hear of third parties pointing people my way.

- Trip


----------



## NYC

LenL said:


> I too have completely lost WPIX 11.1 and WABC 7.1.
> 
> Meanwhile 13.1 WNET is coming in great with strong signal and quality. The best I have seen in months!
> 
> No reason that I can come up with and when the WPIX engineers say all is well I have to wonder. Of course the person you spoke with may just be blowing you off and really has no clue or is not at liberty to say.


I am now able to get decent reception on the channels I usually get, except for WABC 7 which still fluctuates from 50 to 75% strength, it used to come in at 85 to 95%.


----------



## Locks

I stopped receiving WNET/channels 13.1, 13.2 and 13.3 last Wednesday. I'm trying to figure out if it's WNET's signal and/or if I need a new antenna. All other channels are coming in clear.


----------



## SnellKrell

Locks said:


> I stopped receiving WNET/channels 13.1, 13.2 and 13.3 last Wednesday. I'm trying to figure out if it's WNET's signal and/or if I need a new antenna. All other channels are coming in clear.


At 4:00 p.m. last Wednesday, WNET switched transmission from ESB to 1WTC.

That's when I lost the channel, too!


----------



## Locks

SnellKrell said:


> At 4:00 p.m. last Wednesday, WNET switched transmission from ESB to 1WTC.
> 
> That's when I lost the channel, too!


I am getting other channels that are coming from 1WTC just not WNET. Does anyone know if WNET changed their signal strength and if so is it temporary?


----------



## SnellKrell

Locks said:


> I am getting other channels that are coming from 1WTC just not WNET. Does anyone know if WNET changed their signal strength and if so is it temporary?


Yes, the station's ERP has changed with the move, and its antenna is some 334' higher now.

At Empire State, 9.3kW 

At 1WTC, 4.0kW

As of 5/1/20, WNET will change channels; it will then migrate to channel 12 with an increase
in power to 6.52kW.

A friend, who is a well respected R.F. Engineer, has told be that the increase in power at that 
time will have a negligible impact on reception.


----------



## Locks

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, the station's ERP has changed with the move, and its antenna is some 334' higher now.
> 
> At Empire State, 9.3kW
> 
> At 1WTC, 4.0kW
> 
> As of 5/1/20, WNET will change channels; it will then migrate to channel 12 with an increase
> in power to 6.52kW.
> 
> A friend, who is a well respected R.F. Engineer, has told be that the increase in power at that
> time will have a negligible impact on reception.



Thank you so much. Would a more powerful antenna and/or adapter help with reception or is upper Manhattan just out of luck?


----------



## SnellKrell

Locks said:


> Thank you so much. Would a more powerful antenna and/or adapter help with reception or is upper Manhattan just out of luck?


Hard to tell, but I've always heard that the higher the antenna, the better.


----------



## Locks

SnellKrell said:


> Hard to tell, but I've always heard that the higher the antenna, the better.


I just ordered a new antenna with a larger range. I'll let you know if it works.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Never thought there would be so many issues ditching "broadcast on cable" for antennas. UWS, top/10th floor, windows facing south, probably about 6.7 miles from WTC (about a mile south of Columbia), no big buildings immediately blocking me from looking south (lotta open sky), but can't really see the top of the WTC. Started with a flat antenna in the window up high. At first it got everything in great quality... fast forward a few months, wanted to see a Yankee game on 11, no dice, no signal. 13 had a not so hot picture, not severe breakups, but annoying still. Posted here, got advice about higher VHF channels, pulled out an old dipole, boom, 11 was great. Set up a switch to be able to switch between the 2.

Honestly, fact is I rarely watch anything on broadcast... but I need to be able to if I want/need (spent part of my career at ABCNews, so monitoring the big 3 during crises is something I want to have access to). Reading the discussion, did a quickish test. On the dipole, everything looked great, EXCEPT channel 5 had no signal (to be fair, spent about 2 mins each watching). Switched to the flat antenna, boom, channel 5 comes right in... as did everything else except 11 and a not so hot 13 image.


----------



## Rieper

Can’t get channel 41.1 which is Univision. Anyone know if they switched the antenna to another channel again like before?


----------



## SnellKrell

Rieper said:


> Can’t get channel 41.1 which is Univision. Anyone know if they switched the antenna to another channel again like before?


Coming in loud and clear!


----------



## EF9500

All the moves to wtc have made things Rock solid here on long island 60 miles out. Wondering why people closer are having issues?


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> All the moves to wtc have made things Rock solid here on long island 60 miles out. Wondering why people closer are having issues?


The main reason is the antennas are located higher. And in the case of WNET, add to that problem, the ERP is now less than half
of what it had been.


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell said:


> The main reason is the antennas are located higher. And in the case of WNET, add to that problem, the ERP is now less than half
> of what it had been.



So it looks like for some of us higher antenna height and less power from the broadcast antenna is NOT helping our reception of stations now at 1 WTC.


Some (maybe more than some) of us had better OTA reception when the broadcasts were at the ESB at a lower antenna height but with more power.


So there are winners and losers.


----------



## EF9500

LenL said:


> So it looks like for some of us higher antenna height and less power from the broadcast antenna is NOT helping our reception of stations now at 1 WTC.
> 
> 
> Some (maybe more than some) of us had better OTA reception when the broadcasts were at the ESB at a lower antenna height but with more power.
> 
> 
> So there are winners and losers.


WNET is at half power?? Amazing what extra height can do. I used to get about 60% from ESB, I now am at 85%.


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> WNET is at half power?? Amazing what extra height can do. I used to get about 60% from ESB, I now am at 85%.


You're one of the lucky ones!

I imagine that the improvement you're quoting is in signal strength, and that your reception of WNET since it moved
is due to your living in a more suburban area, not in midtown Manhattan.


----------



## HoundBaby

SnellKrell said:


> You're one of the lucky ones!
> 
> I imagine that the improvement you're quoting is in signal strength, and that your reception of WNET since it moved
> is due to your living in a more suburban area, not in midtown Manhattan.


I’m 27 miles west of NYC in Morris County NJ and ch. 13 signal is now excellent since the move to the WTC. Now waiting for ch. 5 to move to the WTC. Does anyone have ETA on that move?


----------



## SnellKrell

I haven't heard any definitive information about a date for WNYW's move to 1WTC.

As you may have read on this part of the Forum, Fox had originally intended for both
of its stations in NY to move to 1WTC at the same time.

That didn't happen!

WWOR moved and the wonderful people at Durst informed Fox that they could not
accommodate WNYW transmitting from the building's Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40)
and the station would have to use the Lower UHF Antenna (PEP96L).

Here is an excerpt from WNYW's Revised Application for an Antenna Change filed
with the FCC on April 25th of this year.

" ... it was determined that the PEP40 antenna would not be able to accommodate WNYW in that the additional power into the 
shared antenna would exceed the total antenna power limit. Therefore, WNYW will be required to use the PEP96L antenna instead 
of the PEP40 antenna."

All of a sudden, Durst realized that they could not fulfill its obligation to WNYW
and that the station would have to transmit from a lower portion of the mast that
was, at the time of the filing, not operational!

Please remember that PEP96L is the location that NBCUniversal, Channel 36 has
been waiting for 1 year now!!!!!

The FCC granted WNYW's request and now we're all waiting.


----------



## d3193

SnellKrell said:


> You're one of the lucky ones!
> 
> I imagine that the improvement you're quoting is in signal strength, and that your reception of WNET since it moved
> is due to your living in a more suburban area, not in midtown Manhattan.


Yes, indeed. WNET has disappeared for me entirely (midtown Manhattan - 3rd floor of my building). With my new Silver Sensor from Alibaba I can now pull in WNBC, but no WNET


----------



## SnellKrell

d3193 said:


> Yes, indeed. WNET has disappeared for me entirely (midtown Manhattan - 3rd floor of my building). With my new Silver Sensor from Alibaba I can now pull in WNBC, but no WNET


I use the original Silver Sensor, and in the past, it was able to pick up Channel 13 from ESB.

Please be aware that the Silver Sensor is a UHF antenna meant to work in that band.

WNBC is transmitting on UHF, Channel 36 - Silver Sensor territory.

I'm going to search for my old rabbit ears (VHF, 2-13) to see if I can somehow capture 13.

I doubt if that will make a difference - the new transmission height along with half the power spells failure for me!


----------



## Brian in CT

SnellKrell, I assume you have to worry about multipath living in Manhattan. That and all sorts of devices in your building that leak RF into the VHF band. Are you able to handle all these problems at your location? I ask because I knew someone that tried to use an antenna in her downtown Hartford, Connecticut location. She failed to get anything because of the multipath problem I mentioned above. Good luck with the rabbit ears.


----------



## SnellKrell

Brian in CT said:


> SnellKrell, I assume you have to worry about multipath living in Manhattan. That and all sorts of devices in your building that leak RF into the VHF band. Are you able to handle all these problems at your location? I ask because I knew someone that tried to use an antenna in her downtown Hartford, Connecticut location. She failed to get anything because of the multipath problem I mentioned above. Good luck with the rabbit ears.


Yes, multipath abounds!

That's why I bought the Silver Sensor years ago.

Highly directional and until the stations moved to 1WTC, picked up the stations I wanted.

Over the weekend, I'll rummage around and try to find the good old rabbit ears.

Will report if and when I find the good old Terk.


----------



## ALP

It has happened again. We woke up this morning to NO CBS or NBC! All other broadcast channels are fine. This is the second time this has happened. The last time was several months ago when CBS and NBC where the only two stations on 1WTC. I am not sure if that still applies. Did I miss a re-scan notice? Anyone else have this problem? Any thoughts as to what is going on?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> It has happened again. We woke up this morning to NO CBS or NBC! All other broadcast channels are fine. This is the second time this has happened. The last time was several months ago when CBS and NBC where the only two stations on 1WTC. I am not sure if that still applies. Did I miss a re-scan notice? Anyone else have this problem? Any thoughts as to what is going on?


Just took a look and NBC (36) is fine, but no reception for CBS (33).

For me, living on the Upper East Side and a number of people in Midtown, the move to 1WTC has been disastrous!

Yesterday, found the good old Terk rabbit ears in the back of a closet and hooked it up.

No Channel 13 no matter the directions I used, the element lengths I tried or all the contortions I went through.

Finally, tried the window sill, about 18" from where I had tried and where the Silver Sensor usually lives.

Voila! Channel 13 came in! This is the first time since the station started transmitting from 1WTC.

If I moved the antenna just an inch or so - nada!

The new height and half-power are killing me in trying to receive 13.


----------



## Bpguy19

Hello! Ever since the switch to 1WTC, I have not been able to get NBC or CBS. I live in battery park, almost directly under the WTC. I live on the 20th floor with a window facing out towards ESB. I have tried both a flat antenna and rabbit ears. 

Any ideas/suggestions?


----------



## SnellKrell

Bpguy19 said:


> Hello! Ever since the switch to 1WTC, I have not been able to get NBC or CBS. I live in battery park, almost directly under the WTC. I live on the 20th floor with a window facing out towards ESB. I have tried both a flat antenna and rabbit ears.
> 
> Any ideas/suggestions?


Your location and the transmitting antennas' heights are an impossible combination for you.

Even if stations were to increase their Beam Tilts, I really think you're out of luck.

Wish there were a magic fix.


----------



## FrankH3rd

SnellKrell said:


> Your location and the transmitting antennas' heights are an impossible combination for you.
> 
> Even if stations were to increase their Beam Tilts, I really think you're out of luck.
> 
> Wish there were a magic fix.


Question- Was OTA TV reception using an indoor antenna EVER good and consistently reliable for viewers living in steel and concrete buildings in Manhattan and Brooklyn, regardless of the transmitting antenna location, ESB or original WTC ? Even in the old analog days? I seem to recall that almost from the beginning of TV in the 1950's and 1960's, building owners would connect their apartments to antennas located on building roofs, because reception with indoor antennas was problematic at best. Then cable services replaced the rooftop antennas starting in the (1970's?). (Wasn't the original purpose of cable systems, before there were "cable channels", to get broadcast stations to hard to reach rural and urban locations?).


----------



## SnellKrell

FrankH3rd said:


> Question- Was OTA TV reception using an indoor antenna EVER good and consistently reliable for viewers living in steel and concrete buildings in Manhattan and Brooklyn, regardless of the transmitting antenna location, ESB or original WTC ? Even in the old analog days? I seem to recall that almost from the beginning of TV in the 1950's and 1960's, building owners would connect their apartments to antennas located on building roofs, because reception with indoor antennas was problematic at best. Then cable services replaced the rooftop antennas starting in the (1970's?). (Wasn't the original purpose of cable systems, before there were "cable channels", to get broadcast stations to hard to reach rural and urban locations?).


i can only talk for myself - when the stations that are currently transmitting from 1WTC were emanating from ESB,
my reception was vastly better. I could receive all the major channels!

Yes, building owners provided a "Master Antenna" system for tenants. This also was better for building owners -
roofs were no longer cluttered with a glut of antennas with their drop lines going down the sides of apartment houses.

Cable began in Mahanoy, Pennsylvania in 1948 to provide television reception that had been blocked by mountains.

Inner city viewers, unfortunately, will have to wait for stations to employ ATSC 3.0 transmission with multiple, lower transmission points.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm hearing that WLNY has made its move from channel 47 to channel 27. Can anyone confirm?

- Trip


----------



## EF9500

Trip in VA said:


> I'm hearing that WLNY has made its move from channel 47 to channel 27. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> - Trip


Yes they are. Still broadcasting from both frequencies. Is the 27 frequency from long island? Or NYC?


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> Yes they are. Still broadcasting from both frequencies. Is the 27 frequency from long island? Or NYC?


From the tower in Middle Island.


----------



## Brian in CT

@FrankH3rd: Even in the analog era, it was very hard to get VHF signals inside a concrete or cinderblock building. I assume that is still true with digital signals. I also assume that is why SnellKrell had to put his rabbit ears antenna very close to the window to get WNET-13. As for metal buildings, I have never been able to try, but it's probably a similar situation.


The cable boom in the USA didn't hit until the 1980's. In fact, cable didn't achieve 50% household penetration until 1987. That's when rooftop antennas were disappearing at a brisk rate. In the 2010's, they have slowly popped back up here and there. Unfortunately, people in urban centers will have trouble with their TV reception until ATSC 3.0 rolls out.


----------



## SnellKrell

Brian in CT said:


> @FrankH3rd: Even in the analog era, it was very hard to get VHF signals inside a concrete or cinderblock building. I assume that is still true with digital signals. I also assume that is why SnellKrell had to put his rabbit ears antenna very close to the window to get WNET-13. As for metal buildings, I have never been able to try, but it's probably a similar situation.
> 
> 
> The cable boom in the USA didn't hit until the 1980's. In fact, cable didn't achieve 50% household penetration until 1987. That's when rooftop antennas were disappearing at a brisk rate. In the 2010's, they have slowly popped back up here and there. Unfortunately, people in urban centers will have trouble with their TV reception until ATSC 3.0 rolls out.


Without beating a dead horse, my reception problems didn't begin until stations moved to 1WTC.

Same high-rise apartment, same construction, same everything except for 1WTC.


----------



## Jay Stone

SnellKrell said:


> From the tower in Middle Island.




And yesterday 27 was broadcasting CBS. Stinks that they stopped that because cbs is hard for me to pick up from NYC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brian in CT

@SnellKrell: My bad. I guess I assumed too much. Being on the Upper East Side, can I assume that window you use for your antennas points southwest toward both the ESB and 1WTC? If it does, my only guess is that the TV signals have to pass through more buildings.


----------



## SnellKrell

Brian in CT said:


> @SnellKrell: My bad. I guess I assumed too much. Being on the Upper East Side, can I assume that window you use for your antennas points southwest toward both the ESB and 1WTC? If it does, my only guess is that the TV signals have to pass through more buildings.


The window faces south.

The problem is not necessarily that the signal has to pass through more buildings.

The problem is that the transmission antennas are much higher and the signals have
trouble reaching locations that are relatively close to 1WTC.

If that weren't had enough, WNET is now running at approximately half the Effective
Radiated Power that it had been when it was transmitting from ESB.

The perfect storm!


----------



## Brian in CT

@SnellKrell: Like you said, ATSC 3.0 hopefully will solve many of the problems associated with ATSC 1.0. Until then, maybe they can put translators on top of the ESB again.


----------



## SnellKrell

Brian in CT said:


> @SnellKrell: Like you said, ATSC 3.0 hopefully will solve many of the problems associated with ATSC 1.0. Until then, maybe they can put translators on top of the ESB again.


Glad you used a smiley face.

Stations couldn't care less about OTA.

Station sharing and adding more and more subchannels are great for a station's
bottom line, but only degrades the quality of the main signal.

Thank you, WNET!

ATSC 3.0 is their last hope that stations have when it comes to OTA.

They will then have the ability to compete in the marketplace selling data packages,
and delivering signals to smartphones.


----------



## dstoffa

Brian in CT said:


> As for metal buildings, I have never been able to try, but it's probably a similar situation.



Aluminum siding effectively block all television signals.. should your home still have it.


----------



## d3193

FrankH3rd said:


> Question- Was OTA TV reception using an indoor antenna EVER good and consistently reliable for viewers living in steel and concrete buildings in Manhattan and Brooklyn, regardless of the transmitting antenna location, ESB or original WTC ? Even in the old analog days? I seem to recall that almost from the beginning of TV in the 1950's and 1960's, building owners would connect their apartments to antennas located on building roofs, because reception with indoor antennas was problematic at best. Then cable services replaced the rooftop antennas starting in the (1970's?). (Wasn't the original purpose of cable systems, before there were "cable channels", to get broadcast stations to hard to reach rural and urban locations?).


OTA reception in Manhattan has always been a problem. There are inevitably multiple reflections from the many tall buildings. In the old analog days the image was clouded with ghosts to the extent that it was usually unwatchable. To watch local broadcasts, a cable feed was pretty much essential for most people. The arrival of digital broadcasting made OTA reception more of a possibility. The strongest signal might well be a reflection from another building, and multiple signals at once (ghosts in analog) can still cause problems, but if you do succeed in getting something it will look pretty good.

Unfortunately, few people are able to place an antenna on their roof, so some sort of interior device is the only option. I'm in mid Manhattan and can get some, but definitely not all, the OTA channels.


----------



## scorpiony

Oddly enough, a typical indoor antenna tucked to my 2nd floor window sill facing Broadway on UWS in the 80’s, gets all channels now.... go figure. 
The Elevation in my area is 120 ft 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LenL

How is everyone's reception these days? Anything new to report? I'm still w/o 7.1 and 11.1. Everything else seems to be ok.


----------



## reddice

Where I am channel 13 is much stronger on the 1WTC. No surprise as my TV and radio reception (WKCR, WPAT, WKTU) use to be excellent when they were on the original twin towers WTC.

Watching a Capital Fourth on WNET then switching to WNBC-WNJU when it ended so I watched the fireworks without ads it did not break up once. Last year was a disaster when it was on the ESB. So for me 1WTC I can now get WPXN channel 31 which I could not get a blimp on the ESB. WNBC-WNJU comes in stronger too. I wish WPIX would move as on the ESB its terrible when there is bad weather just as bad as WNET was.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> How is everyone's reception these days? Anything new to report? I'm still w/o 7.1 and 11.1. Everything else seems to be ok.


my antennas (3 of them, 1 uhf, 1 hi-vhf and 1 lo-vhf) have not moved in 10 years facing ESB when I installed and i have had zero problems with reception during the repacks and moves. I haven't lost any channels because of it.


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> my antennas (3 of them, 1 uhf, 1 hi-vhf and 1 lo-vhf) have not moved in 10 years facing ESB when I installed and i have had zero problems with reception during the repacks and moves. I haven't lost any channels because of it.



You are in a great location. You can't be much more than 15 miles from the ESB and 1WTC. Plus you are above sea level and your antennas are directed east south east. All of which means you probably did not need to re-aim them and reception did not take a hit.


I forget was it you that mentioned you still get NJN now transmitting from Basking Ridge?


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> I forget was it you that mentioned you still get NJN now transmitting from Basking Ridge?


no, i dont get it. its too far and in a totally different location. the montclair antenna is 2 miles away from me dead center in the path of esb though.


----------



## LenL

Aero 1 said:


> no, i dont get it. its too far and in a totally different location. the montclair antenna is 2 miles away from me dead center in the path of esb though.



Too bad the Montclair antenna is not used anymore. NJ PBS lost a ton of viewers with the change and they are so stupid thinking that the people in North Jersey can receive NJN without changing their antennas and subsequently losing the all the other stations they get coming out of NY.


They look and see how much coverage their broadcast get coming north from Basking Ridge and don't understand antenna pointing.


----------



## nyctveng

LenL said:


> Too bad the Montclair antenna is not used anymore. NJ PBS lost a ton of viewers with the change and they are so stupid thinking that the people in North Jersey can receive NJN without changing their antennas and subsequently losing the all the other stations they get coming out of NY.
> 
> 
> They look and see how much coverage their broadcast get coming north from Basking Ridge and don't understand antenna pointing.


They are not stupid. They knew they would lose viewers. But they got $200 million in the process. Money to keep them afloat and money they would never got from the OTA viewers they lost.


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> They are not stupid. They knew they would lose viewers. But they got $200 million in the process. Money to keep them afloat and money they would never got from the OTA viewers they lost.


I'm fairly certain that the $194 million that the state of New Jersey received for selling
WNJN, Montclair's frequency, went into Trenton's general account, with no amount specifically
earmarked for broadcasting.

In fact, the New Jersey Public Broadcasting Authority, had asked the state that a portion of
the money generated by the sales be directed to the Authority - there was no expectation
to receive all the proceeds. 

i don't know the outcome. But with the state's financial problems, it's doubtful if any has
gone to Public Broadcasting.

Also, it's interesting that Authority spokespeople, in trying to justify the sales, stated -

"We want to make sure this money goes back to communities and make sure they get 
the information and media they want to see." 

It was also claimed that there would be no disruption in services!

Who are you going to believe, Trenton or your own eyes???


----------



## HoundBaby

I’m still able to receive VHF ch 58.1. Plus 7.1 , 13.1. WPIX 11.1 at times sometimes in the AM. For the most part it looks like it doesn’t exist. I’m thinks of raising the antenna another 5 feet and see if it helps. Any updates on if and went WNYW 5.1 planed move to the WTC will take place.


----------



## LenL

nyctveng said:


> They are not stupid. They knew they would lose viewers. But they got $200 million in the process. Money to keep them afloat and money they would never got from the OTA viewers they lost.



They are stupid. I give money to public broadcasting just about every year and guess what happened when I can no longer get NJN? Probably more people are like me and so those funds are gone for ever!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> They are stupid. I give money to public broadcasting just about every year and guess what happened when I can no longer get NJN? Probably more people are like me and so those funds are gone for ever!


Bingo!


----------



## Aero 1

WJLP 33.7 new? Just noticed it, it has color bars and the channel name is called "future".


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Weren't some having issues with 5.1 (fox)? Just watched the World Cup Final, no glitches at all, reception fine (UWS, flat antenna).


----------



## NYC

Aero 1 said:


> WJLP 33.7 new? Just noticed it, it has color bars and the channel name is called "future".


The description states for future programming. Some audio was playing for a short while. Seems like they are testing Heartland, a country music network. The color bars have been up for weeks now.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

NYC said:


> The description states for future programming. Some audio was playing for a short while. Seems like they are testing Heartland, a country music network. The color bars have been up for weeks now.


Or _DECADES_, as we prepare to say so-long to that diginet's WCBS-TV New York (and other CBS O&Os) affiliations 

https://tvnewscheck.com/article/219154/weigel-launch-start-tv-female-diginet/


----------



## Mr Tony

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Or _DECADES_, as we prepare to say so-long to that diginet's WCBS-TV New York (and other CBS O&Os) affiliations
> 
> https://tvnewscheck.com/article/219154/weigel-launch-start-tv-female-diginet/


Why couldnt they put it on WLNY?


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Unclehonkey,


unclehonkey said:


> Why couldnt they put it on WLNY?


CBS _could_ create a subchannel on WLNY-TV Riverhead, though they have not done so to date, and there is ongoing speculation as to whether they will do just that on one of their Los Angeles, CA. TV properties. However, that option begs the question as to why CBS wouldn't just add a -3 subchannel to WCBS-TV New York and move _DECADES_ there. The WLNY-TV signal contour, at present, is fringe throughout most of New York City proper and non-existent in New Jersey, thus such a move, while it would technically keep _DECADES_ on the air in the New York market, would effectively cull its available audience by a significant population quantity.


----------



## Mr Tony

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> CBS _could_ create a subchannel on WLNY-TV Riverhead, though they have not done so to date, and there is ongoing speculation as to whether they will do just that on one of their Los Angeles, CA. TV properties. However, that option begs the question as to why CBS wouldn't just add a -3 subchannel to WCBS-TV New York and move _DECADES_ there. The WLNY-TV signal contour, at present, is fringe throughout most of New York City proper and non-existent in New Jersey, thus such a move, while it would technically keep _DECADES_ on the air in the New York market, would effectively cull its available audience by a significant population quantity.


I'm not in NY so I'm just speculating. The one press release said that in LA it will move stations. Whether that is CBS's KCAL or Weigel's KAZA is not known. Chicago it will move to a Weigel owned station. I'm sure the reason for the change is due to instant cable coverage of the new diginet.

I wish CBS would create a -3 for Decades. I'm in Minneapolis which is losing Decades too (WCCO-DT2) and unlike most of the CBS O&O markets, Minneapolis has no sister station for it to go to. But it took forever for CBS to add a subchannel to their O&O stations (when they added Decades) so they may be hesitant to add a 2nd subchannel.


----------



## dturturro

Please, no more sub channels! The PQ is being degraded enough.


----------



## NYC

unclehonkey said:


> I'm not in NY so I'm just speculating. The one press release said that in LA it will move stations. Whether that is CBS's KCAL or Weigel's KAZA is not known. Chicago it will move to a Weigel owned station. I'm sure the reason for the change is due to instant cable coverage of the new diginet.
> 
> I wish CBS would create a -3 for Decades. I'm in Minneapolis which is losing Decades too (WCCO-DT2) and unlike most of the CBS O&O markets, Minneapolis has no sister station for it to go to. But it took forever for CBS to add a subchannel to their O&O stations (when they added Decades) so they may be hesitant to add a 2nd subchannel.


I wish CBS would do something to bring WLNY's signal further west. I also wonder why they keep CBSN as a streaming service since it seems perfect for local stations to insert local news updates during the breaks.

Also noticed that the NY Daily News dropped their Sunday TV listings booklet. I figured they were about to do that as they offered discounted "TV Weekly" magazine subscriptions. Today they announced huge staff cutbacks.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey dturturro,


dturturro said:


> Please, no more sub channels! The PQ is being degraded enough.


Generally I'm kind of inclined to agree with you. I think the present inventory is at a saturation risk with too many diginets competing for the same ever-upward aging demographic ad buys. However, until WLNY-TV Riverhead lights up a repeater or moves its antenna further west to provide reliable coverage to New Jersey while not sacrificing one household in Riverhead, NY., the only logical way to preserve the NYC area audience for this most-treasured diginet which by its programming preserves and promotes the Golden Age of Television, _DECADES_, is to add another subchannel over WCBS-TV New York. Or, it's entirely possible that WJLP Middletown Township or another full-power NYC area television station will pick up where CBS indicates they want to leave off and continue the diginet on their signal.

Ultimately, ATSC 3.0 will hopefully solve these bitrate compression issues, which is why broadcasters and the FCC should expedite the rollout process and usher ATSC 3.0 into the mainstream as soon as possible. No logical reason we should watch 3rd-world Television while living in a 1st-world Nation.


----------



## ALP

Guys, this is a bit off topic, but how big of an audience does "Golden Age TV" draw? I am an early baby boomer and I do not know anyone that sits around and watches reruns of programs that are 20 to 40 years old. Also, all of this content is from the analog era so can't it be handled in SD to cut down on its bit rate demands.


I can also tell you that when it comes to ATSC 3.0 the average Joe (i.e. cable or satellite TV ) is just getting over that 3rd-world TV saying when he had to switch from analog to digital (new TV's and DVR's) and does not want to hear it again.


----------



## dstoffa

NYC said:


> I wish CBS would do something to bring WLNY's signal further west.



I am sure they had a reason not to purchase the repeaters back in 2012ish or so... I used to get WLNY on 45-1.


----------



## ALP

ALP said:


> Guys, this is a bit off topic, but how big of an audience does "Golden Age TV" draw? I am an early baby boomer and I do not know anyone that sits around and watches reruns of programs that are 20 to 40 years old. Also, all of this content is from the analog era so can't it be handled in SD to cut down on its bit rate demands.
> 
> 
> I can also tell you that when it comes to ATSC 3.0 the average Joe (i.e. cable or satellite TV ) is just getting over that 3rd-world TV saying when he had to switch from analog to digital (new TV's and DVR's) and does not want to hear it again.



I may have confused things in my post above. If so it is my bad. I was doing some online research and apparently today's TV programs ( The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, etc.) are called the "Golden Age" or the "New Golden Age" of TV by many critics. There is even concern that with Netflix now releasing high quality dramas there is too much great programming out there and no one can watch it all. Obviously, this is not what I meant when I said "Golden Age". I meant the kind of reruns that are on Decades TV. How big is that audience?


Also, I found out that it is already broadcast as SDTV, again, my bad.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey dstoffa,


dstoffa said:


> I am sure they had a reason not to purchase the repeaters back in 2012ish or so... I used to get WLNY on 45-1.


Trip in VA may have better insight on this, but I suspect the reason CBS was disinterested in the translators/repeaters back when they purchased WLNY-TV Riverhead is they were licensed for frequencies now deemed out-of-core and would likely be forced off the air post-repack. Let's be honest here: Every major broadcast corporation knew how the auction would turn out and some (especially NBCUniversal and Univision) profited probably beyond their wildest dreams. As to translators for WLNY-TV, technically it might be easier to start from scratch once the dust settles and attempt to light up a translator or a subchannel when the final channel lineup comes into better focus.


----------



## Brian in CT

ALP said:


> Guys, this is a bit off topic, but how big of an audience does "Golden Age TV" draw? I am an early baby boomer and I do not know anyone that sits around and watches reruns of programs that are 20 to 40 years old.



You just met one. Now that we are in the summer doldrums, I tend to watch more programming on the "classic TV" digi-nets. As a game show fan, I'll watch Buzzr at times. Sunday nights I might tune into Antenna TV for a Carson show episode from 1972-1980. When Get TV had Merv Griffin shows from the 1960's, I would check them out at times. Much of this old stuff is better than the "reality" crap that floods today's television schedule. Then again, I am fond of reading and watching shows about television's history both in front of and behind the camera. To that point, I just saw the Mister Rogers documentary a short while ago. It was very good.


By the way, I'm 52 years old. The advertisers on the major networks don't care about me anyway.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

ALP said:


> Guys, this is a bit off topic, but how big of an audience does "Golden Age TV" draw? I am an early baby boomer and I do not know anyone that sits around and watches reruns of programs that are 20 to 40 years old. Also, all of this content is from the analog era so can't it be handled in SD to cut down on its bit rate demands.


Most of these diginets do not subscribe to Neilson ratings as that is not a cost-effective measure to gauge the success of this type of programming. In fact, _RetroTV_ had previously declared bankruptcy. So as is evident, a shoestring budget is essential for the non-essentials. The numbers that matter most are direct response revenue attributed to the specific phone numbers and websites found on the Per-Inquiry spots customarily airing on these stations. The most successful diginets, like _Me-TV_, have landed larger advertising accounts that don't depend entirely on the direct response model.

Here is a very interesting April 2015 article that delves into the topic, courtesy of the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...et-ct-classic-tv-new-life-20150401-story.html

In response to the second part of your question: Most diginets air over 480i SD subchannels, some of which are fixed 4:3 aspect-ratio while others are widescreen. _Me-TV_ is one of the unique diginets in that it has many 480i affiliates with a few interspersed that are considered High Definition by airing on a 720p stream, such as WJLP Middletown Township, KHTV-CD Los Angeles, and KJWP Wilmington, among many others. _Live Well_, the zombie diginet, is unique in that seven out of eight of its ABC O&O affiliates assign it a 720p stream with Chicago being the lone exception as that station is involved in a channel-sharing situation with the former WXFT Chicago.

However, just because a diginet like _DECADES_ can and does air on a 480i-widescreen stream doesn't mean the program quality isn't significantly deteriorated by doing so. The main problem I have with most of these diginets, aside from the saturation concerns I addressed earlier, is they are so starved for spectrum that the quality is oftentimes comparable to a YouTube video encoded at 240p. When I've tuned to these channels on a 60" screen with friends who are in their 30s, one of the first things they remark is "That's not High Definition." Damn straight it isn't! And if the PQ is inferior to a typical YouTube video encoded at 480p, you better believe most young eyes and the viewers who own them will skip over the station without even taking a sample. And if I ever have an audience with Andrew Thorburn of the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) or any member of their leadership team, this is exactly what I would tell them, and why implementing ATSC 3.0 is absolutely essential for the broadcast industry.


----------



## Trip in VA

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Trip in VA may have better insight on this, but I suspect the reason CBS was disinterested in the translators/repeaters back when they purchased WLNY-TV Riverhead is they were licensed for frequencies now deemed out-of-core and would likely be forced off the air post-repack. Let's be honest here: Every major broadcast corporation knew how the auction would turn out and some (especially NBCUniversal and Univision) profited probably beyond their wildest dreams. As to translators for WLNY-TV, technically it might be easier to start from scratch once the dust settles and attempt to light up a translator or a subchannel when the final channel lineup comes into better focus.


I'm actually not clear on why CBS didn't buy WMUN-CD along with WLNY. A skeptical part of me says they wanted WLNY for cable carriage (*10*/55) but I'm not so sure that's it, given how much value CBS placed on its stations in the auction (it didn't sell them). I wonder if the spectrum speculators simply offered more money for WMUN-CD than CBS was willing to pay.

- Trip


----------



## NYC

*Reception of WNET*

Reception of ch 13 has been really poor for several days, only 50% signal or less, all other stations are fine. Anyone else having issues with WNET, 13.1 and/or 13.2 -- or any idea what is happening? Thanks


----------



## dishrich

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/2467129-please-read-before-posting.html


----------



## bobby94928

and more specifically: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-l.../275729-new-york-ny-ota-194.html#post56540314


----------



## DrDon

Moved to NYC OTA thread.


----------



## LenL

NYC said:


> Reception of ch 13 has been really poor for several days, only 50% signal or less, all other stations are fine. Anyone else having issues with WNET, 13.1 and/or 13.2 -- or any idea what is happening? Thanks



I checked in the evening and all is fine at my location. WNET has been around 90% signal strength and 100% quality since the move to 1WTC. No observed changes in signal so far.


On the other hand the other VHF broadcasters 7.1 and 11.1 have been bad and unwatchable for several months now.


----------



## scorpiony

What’s your location ?
UWS , 80’s here 
7 & 11 comes in strong with indoor antenna 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> I checked in the evening and all is fine at my location. WNET has been around 90% signal strength and 100% quality since the move to 1WTC. No observed changes in signal so far.
> 
> 
> On the other hand the other VHF broadcasters 7.1 and 11.1 have been bad and unwatchable for several months now.


I, too, for several months haven't been able to receive WABC and WPIX.

I've had enough trouble with stations moving to 1WTC - WNET has been almost a total
loss. The only way to receive 13 has been rabbit ears on a window sill, and with WWOR, 
there's only one sweet-spot using my Silver Sensor, and that diminished the reception of
other stations.

With the loss of 7 and 11, both of which are still transmitting from ESB, wonder if the
stations have had to cut power to allow work on the mast????

Haven't noticed any FCC filings about long-term power cuts.

OTA reception for the Upper East Side has become a chore!

Had hoped all the new technology would have made things better, but that hasn't been
the case.

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell,


For me at my location signal strength is way down for all the stations that moved from when they were at the ESB. However strangely enough signal quality has been mostly rock solid at 100%. in some cases better than when at the ESB. Go figure.


Also not having good antenna pointing info I have not tried to reposition my out door antennas.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Curious, how are those posting signal strength and "quality" for specific channels getting that information? Is it specific to any particular piece of hardware, like the TV or the antenna, or some other external box?


----------



## SnellKrell

Riverside_Guy said:


> Curious, how are those posting signal strength and "quality" for specific channels getting that information? Is it specific to any particular piece of hardware, like the TV or the antenna, or some other external box?


On my LG set, when I choose "Manual Tuning" - I can select a specific channel number (RF)
and there are two bar graphs - "Signal Strength" and "Signal Quality."

It will be pretty much the same for other set manufacturers.


----------



## LenL

Riverside_Guy said:


> Curious, how are those posting signal strength and "quality" for specific channels getting that information? Is it specific to any particular piece of hardware, like the TV or the antenna, or some other external box?



None of my TV's (Sony, Sharp and Samsung) provide signal quality so I get the info from my Channel Master DVR+.


----------



## LenL

scorpiony said:


> What’s your location ?
> UWS , 80’s here
> 7 & 11 comes in strong with indoor antenna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'm about 30 plus miles west northwest of the NY transmitters in the hills of Morris County NJ.


----------



## NYC

LenL said:


> I checked in the evening and all is fine at my location. WNET has been around 90% signal strength and 100% quality since the move to 1WTC. No observed changes in signal so far.
> 
> 
> On the other hand the other VHF broadcasters 7.1 and 11.1 have been bad and unwatchable for several months now.


Thanks. For me in the north east Bronx, 7 and 11 are fine and come in at 82% and 87% respectively. WNET 13 is at 50% or less and has frequent break ups. 

I recall that the major stations (2 through 13) all used to come in at 90% or better.


----------



## oprig

UWS 60s 5th floor south-facing (no line-of-sight to WTC) with Cable Cutter large antenna

2, 4, 5, 7, 9 & 11 all come in strongly unless an airplane or helicopter is passing overhead.

I've got nothing on 13 since the move to WTC.


----------



## nyctveng

Riverside_Guy said:


> Weren't some having issues with 5.1 (fox)? Just watched the World Cup Final, no glitches at all, reception fine (UWS, flat antenna).


Your reception quality may change. WNYW is moving to WTC this week.


----------



## Falcon_77

I have a spare HDHR that I would love to donate to a NYC area resident for the purposes of the Rabbit Ears Live Band Scan.

*Requirements:*

1) Be within 30 miles of 1WTC or have LOS from a hill if not as close.
2) A good outdoor or attic VHF/UHF antenna system aimed towards 1WTC. (no rotor)
3) A computer (laptop, netbook, Raspberry Pi, etc) to run the band scanner software. The computer needs to run 24/7, but doesn't need to be powerful at all. An old netbook is more than sufficient.
4) 24/7 Internet access for the computer.
5) The HDHR needs an Ethernet connection to the same network as the computer.
6) RF input from the antenna system noted in #2 . Ok to split with your other TVs, but just avoid PIMs in the wrong place.
7) HDHR Tuner (I will ship to you at my cost).

More info about the bandscan is here:

https://www.rabbitears.info/static.php?name=join_live_bandscan
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/many_tuner_map/103063F1/tuner0/10339D74/tuner0/101B48F4/tuner1/10343DC8/tuner0/101BF6A5/tuner0/101A7E39/tuner0/103031F4/tuner1/10345B47/tuner0/10152083/tuner0/103B22D6/tuner1/103A0FDF/tuner1/10399A8B/tuner0/103AB6AA/tuner1/103A0AE7/tuner0/10399B09/tuner1/10391284/tuner0/101CAC81/tuner0/101CAC81/tuner1/101CA4A8/tuner0/103A05E8/tuner1/1038BCFA/tuner0/1039A02D/tuner1/10393DBC/tuner0/1016193C/tuner0/10317DF4/tuner1/1038D861/tuner1/103DB6F5/tuner0/10180B55/tuner0/107241E4/tuner3/1019DEC0/tuner0/101106C9/tuner0/101106C9/tuner1/1013024C/tuner0/1013024C/tuner1/1019DEC0/tuner1/1038781D/tuner0/10349662/tuner0/10349662/tuner1/101B8901/tuner0/101677D9/tuner1/103D530B/tuner0/1041F899/tuner0/101C926D/tuner0/1032AA35/tuner0/10537D4B/tuner1/103A3769/tuner0/1042D5BB/tuner1/10464E3B/tuner0/1045F614/tuner0/10461CB0/tuner0/10482196/tuner0/10482196/tuner1/10316CFF/tuner1/1038E55C/tuner1/10343612/tuner1/1041B33B/tuner0/10196A90/tuner0/10196A90/tuner1/1048C780/tuner1/1015B815/tuner1/1046E025/tuner0/101B94C9/tuner0/104A609B/tuner0/1045243A/tuner0/10418E7F/tuner0/10311B6D/tuner0/10140755/tuner1/10469D99/tuner1/10170ED0/tuner1/105700C0/tuner0/10621A3F/tuner0/10489621/tuner1/1044CBDA/tuner1/1071CC28/tuner1/1061A9AC/tuner0/101803EF/tuner1/104DE161/tuner1/10751075/tuner0/104986EA/tuner0/1049E0F5/tuner0/1065573C/tuner1/10468B29/tuner1/10180B55/tuner1/1047FCDA/tuner0/1047FCDA/tuner1/103258C1/tuner1/1061FE57/tuner1/1063F42C/tuner0/104C1A5D/tuner0/1039C29E/tuner1/10402468/tuner1/

Please send me a *PM *if interested. I need a few days to get the power cord as I lost the one I had. The HDHR is the one I had when my parents lived in Mystic, CT.

Thanks!

Mike


----------



## ALP

nyctveng said:


> Your reception quality may change. WNYW is moving to WTC this week.



Is this move going to require another rescan? Is this the last of the major broadcast channels to move to 1WTC from the ESB?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> Is this move going to require another rescan? Is this the last of the major broadcast channels to move to 1WTC from the ESB?


No re scan needed for this move - the station will continue to use RF Channel 44
until around a year from now when it will become Channel 27.


----------



## LenL

Falcon_77 said:


> I have a spare HDHR that I would love to donate to a NYC area resident for the purposes of the Rabbit Ears Live Band Scan.
> 
> *Requirements:*
> 
> 1) Be within 30 miles of 1WTC or have LOS from a hill if not as close.
> 2) A good outdoor or attic VHF/UHF antenna system aimed towards 1WTC. (no rotor)
> 3) A computer (laptop, netbook, Raspberry Pi, etc) to run the band scanner software. The computer needs to run 24/7, but doesn't need to be powerful at all. An old netbook is more than sufficient.
> 4) 24/7 Internet access for the computer.
> 5) The HDHR needs an Ethernet connection to the same network as the computer.
> 6) RF input from the antenna system noted in #2 . Ok to split with your other TVs, but just avoid PIMs in the wrong place.
> 7) HDHR Tuner (I will ship to you at my cost).
> 
> More info about the bandscan is here:
> 
> https://www.rabbitears.info/static.php?name=join_live_bandscan
> https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/many_t...C1A5D/tuner0/1039C29E/tuner1/10402468/tuner1/
> 
> Please send me a *PM *if interested. I need a few days to get the power cord as I lost the one I had. The HDHR is the one I had when my parents lived in Mystic, CT.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mike



I think this is already in place for NYC by rabbitears at his aunts.


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> I think this is already in place for NYC by rabbitears at his aunts.



It's down until further notice, thus Mike's offer.



- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> It's down until further notice, thus Mike's offer.
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Oh...that's too bad. I thought it was just needing one of your regular visits.



I have the ability to do this but my reception is not good right now. I can't get 7.1, 8.1 and 11.1.


I think you want a location where there is halfway decent reception so you can show numbers for most NYC and area stations.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> I think this is already in place for NYC by rabbitears at his aunts.


That installation hasn't been operative for months.


----------



## Falcon_77

LenL said:


> I think you want a location where there is halfway decent reception so you can show numbers for most NYC and area stations.


Yes, if possible. We want to know when they are doing work on each station and how it affects things.


----------



## Trip in VA

I got an e-mail from someone in Queens who already has an HDHR and wanted to help out. So here it is:


https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=1062B171&tno=1


This tells me, however, that there's something wrong with the WPIX configuration, particularly its TSID. Can anyone grab TSReader data for WPIX so I can see what's going on? Same for WNYE.


- Trip


----------



## darkegg

Trip in VA said:


> I got an e-mail from someone in Queens who already has an HDHR and wanted to help out. So here it is:
> 
> 
> https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?request=tvdx_grid&tid=1062B171&tno=1
> 
> 
> This tells me, however, that there's something wrong with the WPIX configuration, particularly its TSID. Can anyone grab TSReader data for WPIX so I can see what's going on? Same for WNYE.


I'm that someone from Queens 

I already emailed Trip with the TSReader data, but I'm also attaching it to this post. I included data for Ch 60 (RF 41) because I think it may have a similar issue.


----------



## Trip in VA

Hmm. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with WPIX or WNYE. (W41DO-D doesn't have a TSID, but does have a call sign, so it, too, should be picked up.) Must be something in the auto-scanner, but I'm not sure what. More investigation is needed.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

nyctveng said:


> Your reception quality may change. WNYW is moving to WTC this week.



I could not find any info on this. What is your source?


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> I could not find any info on this. What is your source?


Why do you think there would be announcements about the move?

How much information did we all get when WCBS moved?

None!


----------



## MeatChicken

This article from 90 days ago mentions the WNYW move " in the coming weeks " ...
https://tvnewscheck.com/article/113487/stations-tower-over-nyc-from-atop-1wtc/


----------



## trailblazer

LenL said:


> I could not find any info on this. What is your source?


Looks like they moved because I am getting a much stronger signal in Jackson NJ as I have with all other stations that have made the move. When they where on the Empire State Building, the signal was marginal at best.


----------



## LenL

MeatChicken said:


> This article from 90 days ago mentions the WNYW move " in the coming weeks " ...
> https://tvnewscheck.com/article/113487/stations-tower-over-nyc-from-atop-1wtc/


True but nothing about it happening this week.


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell said:


> Why do you think there would be announcements about the move?
> 
> How much information did we all get when WCBS moved?
> 
> None!


I'm with you on this! All of these moves are not well reported or publicized! Even Trip is having trouble finding out what they are doing!


----------



## LenL

trailblazer said:


> Looks like they moved because I am getting a much stronger signal in Jackson NJ as I have with all other stations that have made the move. When they where on the Empire State Building, the signal was marginal at best.



I'm happy it is working for you!


For me the signal strength and quality are way down and it is now unwatchable. Oh well so much for the move to 1WTC working for the better!


It has been mentioned that they reduce power due to being higher up on the 1WTC center mast. It appears that for some or many that has little impact or even improves reception. However for me the reduction in power hurts my reception.


----------



## SnellKrell

MeatChicken said:


> This article from 90 days ago mentions the WNYW move " in the coming weeks " ...
> https://tvnewscheck.com/article/113487/stations-tower-over-nyc-from-atop-1wtc/


This is a total puff piece as if it were written by the Durst P.R. department.

I think the altitude must have gotten to the writer, he did not report the almost laughable ineptitude
in the firing up this facility - supposedly, the world's most advanced.

Both WNYW and WNJU/WNBC have been prevented by Durst from transmitting from where they had
contracted, wanted and for which they had received initial FCC approval.

Why?

Durst couldn't deliver!

The ESB is looking better and better with each passing day.


----------



## darkegg

If WNYW has already moved to 1WTC, my best guess as to when it moved is last Friday (Aug 3rd). I only see a slight slight drop in power (see attached image). My reception is now being tracked in a much better way in RabbitEars: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WNYW


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> If WNYW has already moved to 1WTC, my best guess as to when it moved is last Friday (Aug 3rd). I only see a slight slight drop in power (see attached image). My reception is now being tracked in a must better way in RabbitEars: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WNYW


darkegg -

Thanks so much for connecting your tuner and reception information with RabbitEars.

It's much appreciated and so helpful.

SnellKrell


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> I'm happy it is working for you!
> 
> 
> For me the signal strength and quality are way down and it is now unwatchable. Oh well so much for the move to 1WTC working for the better!
> 
> 
> It has been mentioned that they reduce power due to being higher up on the 1WTC center mast. It appears that for some or many that has little impact or even improves reception. However for me the reduction in power hurts my reception.



First, let me say that I now seem to have good reception on the six major broadcast channels (2,4,5,7,11,and 13) so I am not complaining. I would, however, appreciate it if anyone can explain to me in technical terms why when the broadcast antennas went higher they also reduced the power. At first glance this seems counter intuitive, shouldn't higher require more power?


----------



## Trip in VA

When you increase height, theoretically less power is required to cover the same ground. You're no longer using power to try to overcome the curvature of the Earth, but rather you now have better line of sight to those places.

Imagine a light bulb placed on the floor of a kitchen with an island. If you make the lightbulb super-bright, enough light might reflect to make it visible behind the island, but it'll still be shadowy. Move that light bulb to the ceiling and the whole room is well-lit even at a much lower brightness.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> When you increase height, theoretically less power is required to cover the same ground. You're no longer using power to try to overcome the curvature of the Earth, but rather you now have better line of sight to those places.
> 
> Imagine a light bulb placed on the floor of a kitchen with an island. If you make the lightbulb super-bright, enough light might reflect to make it visible behind the island, but it'll still be shadowy. Move that light bulb to the ceiling and the whole room is well-lit even at a much lower brightness.
> 
> - Trip


Except if that light bulb is atop 1WTC and you live on the Upper East Side of Manhattan! 

SnellKrell


----------



## d3193

LenL said:


> For me the signal strength and quality are way down and it is now unwatchable. Oh well so much for the move to 1WTC working for the better!


Me too (midtown). WNYW has disappeared. I was getting WCBS from WTC for a while, but now that's gone too. WNBC comes in occasionally.

I know these moves work for many people, but for me it means that OTC is pretty much dead.


----------



## NYC

SnellKrell said:


> Why do you think there would be announcements about the move?
> 
> How much information did we all get when WCBS moved?
> 
> None!


WNBC made many announcements about their move during commercial breaks and also during some newscasts. 

Also, unrelated, I have noticed that WNYW does not always provide program information. At times, there is no data at all, sometimes they provide just the title of the program, but no description on 5.1, 5.2 and 5.4. Anyone notice that?


----------



## SnellKrell

NYC said:


> WNBC made many announcements about their move during commercial breaks and also during some newscasts.
> 
> Also, unrelated, I have noticed that WNYW does not always provide program information. At times, there is no data at all, sometimes they provide just the title of the program, but no description on 5.1, 5.2 and 5.4. Anyone notice that?


Not the same thing!

WNBC sold its frequency and then elected to share its sister station, WNJU's 
frequency; and by FCC rules, had to inform the public to re-scan.

WNYW did not change its frequency when it moved; so, a re-scan is not
necessary. The only possible action to be taken now would be to reorient
an antenna, but only if necessary.


----------



## ALP

Trip in VA said:


> When you increase height, theoretically less power is required to cover the same ground. You're no longer using power to try to overcome the curvature of the Earth, but rather you now have better line of sight to those places.
> 
> Imagine a light bulb placed on the floor of a kitchen with an island. If you make the lightbulb super-bright, enough light might reflect to make it visible behind the island, but it'll still be shadowy. Move that light bulb to the ceiling and the whole room is well-lit even at a much lower brightness.
> 
> - Trip



Trip, Thanks, I get it now. I can also see why lower power is bad for folks who have to depend on the signal reflecting 3, 4 or more times before it gets to them. In many ways it is sad that NYC is such a three dimensional city. What is so crazy is they just keep building more and more skyscrapers even though every time I go down to the city ( at least once a month ) I see a lot of vacant office space and empty store fronts.


----------



## HoundBaby

I’ve had on and off issues with WNYW for years and and with different antennas. I’ve been watching the news for the past hour with no dropouts. The SNR has been fairly steady at about 21.00 dB. Now it’s sister station WWOR which we know is transmitting from the WTC SNR is at a steady 27.50 dB. I would think WNYN would be transmitting at the same power level as WWOR if it was transmitting for the WTC.


----------



## SnellKrell

HoundBaby said:


> I’ve had on and off issues with WNYW for years and and with different antennas. I’ve been watching the news for the past hour with no dropouts. The SNR has been fairly steady at about 21.00 dB. Now it’s sister station WWOR which we know is transmitting from the WTC SNR is at a steady 27.50 dB. I would think WNYN would be transmitting at the same power level as WWOR if it was transmitting for the WTC.


Those two Fox-owned stations do not and never have transmitted at the same power level
or have they used the same transmitting antenna.

Assuming that WNYW has already moved to 1WTC -

WNYW, 426.0kW from the Lower UHF Antenna, Channel 44

WWOR, 57.8 kW from the Upper UHF Antenna, Channel 25


----------



## HoundBaby

Heres the present signal information for WCBS 29.24 dB and WNBC at 35.14 dB. Just curious which UHF these stations are broadcasting from. Also I’m 27. Miles west of the WCT.


----------



## SnellKrell

HoundBaby said:


> Heres the present signal information for WCBS 29.24 dB and WNBC at 35.14 dB. Just curious which UHF these stations are broadcasting from. Also I’m 27. Miles west of the WCT.


Currently, both WCBS and WNBC (via WNJU) are using a combiner feeding the Upper UHF Antenna.

WNBC/WNJU may be moving down to the Lower UHF Antenna, which had been its original intent.


----------



## Jay Stone

SnellKrell said:


> Those two Fox-owned stations do not and never have transmitted at the same power level
> 
> or have they used the same transmitting antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming that WNYW has already moved to 1WTC -
> 
> 
> 
> WNYW, 426.0kW from the Lower UHF Antenna, Channel 44
> 
> 
> 
> WWOR, 57.8 kW from the Upper UHF Antenna, Channel 25




If that is true why is it that out on Long Island, about 45 miles from WTC can I always get Fox but rarely WOR?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scorpiony

I live on UWS, in the 80’s 2nd floor, facing east, using this $9 antenna and getting all channels from NYC and PBS NJ. 
I have attached a photo of the antenna and an iPhone video, scanning channels. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgzv9h0ww994c7m/IMG_1292.TRIM.MOV?dl=0





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HoundBaby

So in theory WNYW should have a stronger signal then WWOR. Yet WWOR appears to have a stronger signal at least at this location. Or unless it the frequency ch44 is transmitting on that is killing the signal level here. Will have to wait for the repack then.


----------



## LenL

scorpiony said:


> I live on UWS, in the 80’s 2nd floor, facing east, using this $9 antenna and getting all channels from NYC and PBS NJ.
> I have attached a photo of the antenna and an iPhone video, scanning channels.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgzv9h0ww994c7m/IMG_1292.TRIM.MOV?dl=0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is that sitting on the floor?


----------



## scorpiony

LenL said:


> Is that sitting on the floor?




It’s actually sitting on the window sill facing east 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SnellKrell

scorpiony said:


> It’s actually sitting on the window sill facing east
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're very fortunate with the reception you're getting. I'm envious!

How does the reception of those stations that moved to 1WTC compare to when they transmitted from ESB?


----------



## scorpiony

SnellKrell said:


> You're very fortunate with the reception you're getting. I'm envious!
> 
> 
> 
> How does the reception of those stations that moved to 1WTC compare to when they transmitted from ESB?




Hardly any change in reception quality. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SnellKrell

scorpiony said:


> Hardly any change in reception quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks.

Obviously, I'm living in the wrong part of town.

My reception is so bad since the move, I'm giving up on OTA at least until next year when Phase 4 comes into place.


----------



## scorpiony

SnellKrell said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, I'm living in the wrong part of town.
> 
> 
> 
> My reception is so bad since the move, I'm giving up on OTA at least until next year when Phase 4 comes into place.




I used to have problems with high VHF channels while using one of those square antennas ( works mainly with UHF) until I got this rabbit ear combo ; that solved all problems I had with stations using high VHF, the icing on the cake was WNJN , didn’t expect to receive that one at all 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trailblazer

*WCBS 2 Variable Signal Quality*

Channel 2 (WCBS) signal quality this past weekend is all over the place. It's been fluctuating from the 70s and dropping to 30s and back up again. All the other stations off the WTC are fine with MyTV channel 9 having the highest signal strength in the 90s. The stations running at half power need to get back up to full power so this problem goes away on channel 2. I am in Jackson Township NJ and the signal was fine when they initially moved to the WTC but recently it has been quite erratic. The problem seems to be worse during the day and better during the evening hours.


----------



## trailblazer

HoundBaby said:


> So in theory WNYW should have a stronger signal then WWOR. Yet WWOR appears to have a stronger signal at least at this location. Or unless it the frequency ch44 is transmitting on that is killing the signal level here. Will have to wait for the repack then.



I get WWOR in the 90s signal strength while all the others on the WTC are lower with channel 2 being the weakest at my location in central NJ. You would think the signal quality would be similar on all the stations transmitting atop the WTC but in reality the signal strength is different for each station.


----------



## SnellKrell

trailblazer said:


> Channel 2 (WCBS) signal quality this past weekend is all over the place. It's been fluctuating from the 70s and dropping to 30s and back up again. All the other stations off the WTC are fine with MyTV channel 9 having the highest signal strength in the 90s. The stations running at half power need to get back up to full power so this problem goes away on channel 2. I am in Jackson Township NJ and the signal was fine when they initially moved to the WTC but recently it has been quite erratic. The problem seems to be worse during the day and better during the evening hours.


Why should stations continue to run at reduced power?

The reduction was instituted for safety reasons - to allow workers install the Lower UHF Antenna
and the VHF Antenna.

We believe that the Lower UHF Antenna is working with WNYW transmitting from there.

I e-mailed the station asking for a confirmation, no reply!

WNET has moved and is using the VHF facility.

With my reception from 1WTC being so poor, I do hope that stations are still running at lower power.


----------



## HoundBaby

I’ve been testing the signal on ch 5 all weekend . It went from watchable Friday evening to weak or no signal here since Saturday morning. I have no issues here with all of the other stations transmitting from WTC, 2,4,9,13,31,47,48. Something is happening there with everyone’s issues. I also have noticed a drop in signal power on ch 2 but I have no problems when viewing that Channel


----------



## ansky212

I'm having a problem with WJLP (Me-TV). I use an outdoor antenna and I'm getting signal strengths of 90-100% on this channel, but despite the high signal strength I see pixelation about every 10 seconds. Does anyone else notice the same? This is the only channel that has the problem.


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> When you increase height, theoretically less power is required to cover the same ground. You're no longer using power to try to overcome the curvature of the Earth, but rather you now have better line of sight to those places.
> 
> - Trip


This is true if you're only considering distance. The problem with lower power is you now decrease your ability to penetrate inside buildings. This is particularly problematic in places like Manhattan.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> This is true if you're only considering distance. The problem with lower power is you now decrease your ability to penetrate inside buildings. This is particularly problematic in places like Manhattan.


... yes, thus my use of the word "theoretically."

- Trip


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> I'm having a problem with WJLP (Me-TV). I use an outdoor antenna and I'm getting signal strengths of 90-100% on this channel, but despite the high signal strength I see pixelation about every 10 seconds. Does anyone else notice the same? This is the only channel that has the problem.


Nope, WJLP comes in clear for me during the day, but I lose it entirely at night, probably due to interference from street lights: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WJLP


----------



## HoundBaby

ansky212 said:


> I'm having a problem with WJLP (Me-TV). I use an outdoor antenna and I'm getting signal strengths of 90-100% on this channel, but despite the high signal strength I see pixelation about every 10 seconds. Does anyone else notice the same? This is the only channel that has the problem.


What type of outdoor antenna are you using, since WJLP channel 3 is transmitting on the low VHF band.


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> I'm having a problem with WJLP (Me-TV). I use an outdoor antenna and I'm getting signal strengths of 90-100% on this channel, but despite the high signal strength I see pixelation about every 10 seconds. Does anyone else notice the same? This is the only channel that has the problem.



Signal strength is one variable and signal quality is the other. Probably if you could see signal quality you would see it is very bad and hence your reception failure. For me signal quality is more important. You can always boost a weak signal with an amp but if the quality is poor to begin with you can't get decent reception.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> Signal strength is one variable and signal quality is the other. Probably if you could see signal quality you would see it is very bad and hence your reception failure. For me signal quality is more important. You can always boost a weak signal with an amp but if the quality is poor to begin with you can't get decent reception.


I have 90% signal strength so that is not the issue. I'm using a 50 foot cable run to my TV. I wonder if it is picking up noise somewhere.


----------



## trailblazer

*WNBC Poor Signal Qualty this morning*

Turned on WNBC channel 4 this morning and nothing but pixelation with signal strength jumping all over the place form a low of 8 to a high of 70. All other stations are coming in fine in central NJ, even channel 2 which is usually my lowest signal strength. Seems strange to have such a problem with channel 4 when I can get channel 9 with a signal strength over 90! What is going on with the antenna tower on WTC? Maybe the engineers need to do better testing before they moved off the Empire State Building. At least there the signal was stable.


----------



## SnellKrell

trailblazer said:


> Turned on WNBC channel 4 this morning and nothing but pixelation with signal strength jumping all over the place form a low of 8 to a high of 70. All other stations are coming in fine in central NJ, even channel 2 which is usually my lowest signal strength. Seems strange to have such a problem with channel 4 when I can get channel 9 with a signal strength over 90! What is going on with the antenna tower on WTC? Maybe the engineers need to do better testing before they moved off the Empire State Building. At least there the signal was stable.


I just checked the new LiveBandscan from Richmond Hill, Queens for RF 36.

It shows a relatively stable signal strength for this morning - no meaningful fluctuations.


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> I just checked the new LiveBandscan from Richmond Hill, Queens for RF 36.
> 
> It shows a relatively stable signal strength for this morning - no meaningful fluctuations.


Thanks for checking.Just seems strange that 4 & 47 (RF36) are problematic this morning. Could be some kind of interference from somewhere or just the rain but no other stations am I having an issue with.


----------



## ansky212

trailblazer said:


> Thanks for checking.Just seems strange that 4 & 47 (RF36) are problematic this morning. Could be some kind of interference from somewhere or just the rain but no other stations am I having an issue with.


Usually strong fluctuations up and down is a sign of multipath. I used to have that problem with Fox5. Moving the antenna position solved the problem.


----------



## LenL

trailblazer said:


> Thanks for checking.Just seems strange that 4 & 47 (RF36) are problematic this morning. Could be some kind of interference from somewhere or just the rain but no other stations am I having an issue with.



With the reduction in power with the move to 1WTC the weather may be a bigger player in reception issues. If we could find the info we might see that 4/47 have significant power reductions from their prior locations and maybe transmitting at less power than the other broadcasters at 1WTC.


Anyone have this info?


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> With the reduction in power with the move to 1WTC the weather may be a bigger player in reception issues. If we could find the info we might see that 4/47 have significant power reductions from their prior locations and maybe transmitting at less power than the other broadcasters at 1WTC.
> 
> 
> Anyone have this info?


The best source is RabbitEars -

https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php

Here you can check out the authorized power and the height of stations' antennas.

By searching further, you can go into stations' filing with the FCC - some of which
will show temporary reductions in power.

Trip is the encyclopedia of broadcast information!!!!!!

Happy reading.


----------



## LenL

Tripp does a great job but his info but like a lot of other sites has not kept up to date.


I'm not looking to do searches and look ups. I'm looking for a spreadsheet that is up to date on the technical transmitter info for all the NYC area broadcasters. Tripp's sheets are not there yet.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> Tripp does a great job but his info but like a lot of other sites has not kept up to date.
> 
> 
> I'm not looking to do searches and look ups. I'm looking for a spreadsheet that is up to date on the technical transmitter info for all the NYC area broadcasters. Tripp's sheets are not there yet.


Falcon 77's last update is 7.20.18.


----------



## LenL

Still showing stations at the ESB that are now at 1WTC.


----------



## reddice

darkegg said:


> Nope, WJLP comes in clear for me during the day, but I lose it entirely at night, probably due to interference from street lights: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WJLP


WJLP is the most reliable station even more reliable than high VHF WPIX Channel 11. Even with bad thunderstorms and rain WJLP breaks up very little while WPIX breaks up constant. I can also get WJLP with an indoor antenna including all stations on 1WTC.


----------



## ansky212

reddice said:


> WJLP is the most reliable station even more reliable than high VHF WPIX Channel 11. Even with bad thunderstorms and rain WJLP breaks up very little while WPIX breaks up constant. I can also get WJLP with an indoor antenna including all stations on 1WTC.


I have no problem whatsoever with WPIX even during heavy storms. It's rock solid from my location in NJ. I get some pixelation on WNET during heavy rain.


----------



## darkegg

reddice said:


> WJLP is the most reliable station even more reliable than high VHF WPIX Channel 11. Even with bad thunderstorms and rain WJLP breaks up very little while WPIX breaks up constant. I can also get WJLP with an indoor antenna including all stations on 1WTC.


Streetlight interference is a known issue with WJLP. From the WJLP 1WTC application:


> multiple viewers have reported that they lose WJLP’s signal at dusk and determined
> by using an AM radio that a streetlight was the source of interference, but when they contacted
> the electric company, they were told that nothing could be done (which begs the question of
> whether the lighting is Part 15 compliant). -- https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f91633cf92d016342c3be7b0ab5


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> Tripp does a great job but his info but like a lot of other sites has not kept up to date.
> 
> I'm not looking to do searches and look ups. I'm looking for a spreadsheet that is up to date on the technical transmitter info for all the NYC area broadcasters. Tripp's sheets are not there yet.


The RabbitEars listings are fully up to date. I spend quite enough time on them that they darn well should be. 

The spreadsheet is maintained by someone else (Falcon_77) and I just host it for him. As SnellKrell indicates, it was updated on 7/20.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Great to see WPIX and WNYE now being reported by the Richmond Hill Live Bandscan.

Thanks to all for making this possible.


----------



## Trip in VA

SnellKrell said:


> Great to see WPIX and WNYE now being reported by the Richmond Hill Live Bandscan.
> 
> Thanks to all for making this possible.


He's using an override to get them to appear. Still trying to figure out why they won't appear automatically.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Trip in VA said:


> The RabbitEars listings are fully up to date. I spend quite enough time on them that they darn well should be.
> 
> The spreadsheet is maintained by someone else (Falcon_77) and I just host it for him. As SnellKrell indicates, it was updated on 7/20.
> 
> - Trip



I'm just pointing out for Snellkrell that what I am looking for is not quite available yet. The spreadsheet is showing a couple of stations at the ESB that are at 1WTC. Hence trying to compare broadcast info relating to power etc. at 1WTC can't be done using the spreadsheet just yet. I'm sure you guys are trying to keep up with all the changes as best you can. I certainly appreciate Falcon_77s work and yours!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> I'm just pointing out for Snellkrell that what I am looking for is not quite available yet. The spreadsheet is showing a couple of stations at the ESB that are at 1WTC. Hence trying to compare broadcast info relating to power etc. at 1WTC can't be done using the spreadsheet just yet. I'm sure you guys are trying to keep up with all the changes as best you can. I certainly appreciate Falcon_77s work and yours!


And the price is right!


----------



## LenL

And it's free! Not much is free these days!


----------



## ansky212

Does anyone know when the WEDW/WZME DTS application is expected to be reviewed by the FCC? WZME is mostly garbage but WEDW carries CT public television. Since I can no longer pick up NJTV after their move to Basking Ridge, it would be nice to have access to another PBS station.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Does anyone know when the WEDW/WZME DTS application is expected to be reviewed by the FCC? WZME is mostly garbage but WEDW carries CT public television. Since I can no longer pick up NJTV after their move to Basking Ridge, it would be nice to have access to another PBS station.


I just did a re-scan and picked up WEDW off of ESB.

I'm in Manhattan on the Upper East Side and have terrible reception, so was pleasantly surprised to 
receive this station.


----------



## SnellKrell

scorpiony said:


> I live on UWS, in the 80’s 2nd floor, facing east, using this $9 antenna and getting all channels from NYC and PBS NJ.
> I have attached a photo of the antenna and an iPhone video, scanning channels.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgzv9h0ww994c7m/IMG_1292.TRIM.MOV?dl=0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would you please tell me the make and model of your antenna?

My reception has become impossible since stations have moved and my current antennas
won't fit on my window sill, which now appears to be my only "sweet spot."

Thanks -

SnellKrell


----------



## scorpiony

SnellKrell said:


> Would you please tell me the make and model of your antenna?
> 
> 
> 
> My reception has become impossible since stations have moved and my current antennas
> 
> won't fit on my window sill, which now appears to be my only "sweet spot."
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks -
> 
> 
> 
> SnellKrell



GE 33676 Traditional Rabbit Ears TV Antenna – Indoor Tabletop Design - Dipoles and Circular Loop –-VHF/UHF/HDTV ( Below $10 on Amazon)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SnellKrell

scorpiony said:


> GE 33676 Traditional Rabbit Ears TV Antenna – Indoor Tabletop Design - Dipoles and Circular Loop –-VHF/UHF/HDTV ( Below $10 on Amazon)
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Great, thanks so much.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> I just did a re-scan and picked up WEDW off of ESB.
> 
> I'm in Manhattan on the Upper East Side and have terrible reception, so was pleasantly surprised to
> receive this station.


I don't think what you saw was from ESB, unless they were doing some temporary testing. I did a re-scan this afternoon and did not pick up WEDW. However, I did randomly pick up WHCT-38 from Hartford which is over 100 miles away. I think there is some e-skip or tropo from the northeast going on this afternoon.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> I don't think what you saw was from ESB, unless they were doing some temporary testing. I did a re-scan this afternoon and did not pick up WEDW. However, I did randomly pick up WHCT-38 from Hartford which is over 100 miles away. I think there is some e-skip or tropo from the northeast going on this afternoon.


I just checked and WEDW is still coming in loud and strong.

As I've mentioned, I have terrible reception; I use a highly directional Silver Sensor antenna;
and in no way with my antenna facing south, would I be able to receive signals from Trumbull, CT!

Great for me, I no longer can receive WNET, but now I'm getting WEDW!


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> I just checked and WEDW is still coming in loud and strong.
> 
> As I've mentioned, I have terrible reception; I use a highly directional Silver Sensor antenna;
> and in no way with my antenna facing south, would I be able to receive signals from Trumbull, CT!
> 
> Great for me, I no longer can receive WNET, but now I'm getting WEDW!


Are you able to tell what the RF channel is? If it's RF 49 then what you're seeing is from Trumbull. I can literally see the ESB out my window and I'm not picking up WEDW, so I doubt it's from ESB.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Are you able to tell what the RF channel is? If it's RF 49 then what you're seeing is from Trumbull. I can literally see the ESB out my window and I'm not picking up WEDW, so I doubt it's from ESB.


Went into the DTV program on my LG set. This program doesn't deal with PSIPs, only RF designations.

When I enter "49" the Signal Strength and Signal Quality (S/N) shows, for me, a strong signal and
100% for S/N.

Using the regular digital tuner that employs PSIP information, there's 49.1, but no subchannels.

I really can't tell you any more.

Again, with my poor reception, the Silver Sensor facing south, no way would atmospherics make it
possible for me to pick up Trumbull, CT.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just checked again to see if WEDW were coming in - and yes!

Not only that, I've now noticed that I'm receiving 49.3 - CPTV Spirit -
and, the station's other sub-channels labeled as WEDY.

The two WEDY sub-channels are displayed as 65.1, CPTV Spirit
and 65.3, CPTV.

Anyone else receiving those stations for the first time?


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Just checked again to see if WEDW were coming in - and yes!
> 
> Not only that, I've now noticed that I'm receiving 49.3 - CPTV Spirit -
> and, the station's other sub-channels labeled as WEDY.
> 
> The two WEDY sub-channels are displayed as 65.1, CPTV Spirit
> and 65.3, CPTV.
> 
> Anyone else receiving those stations for the first time?


If what you're seeing is from ESB the only explanation I can think of is they are running a directional pattern to the northeast. I'm 10 miles due west of ESB with clear line of sight and I don't see WEDW. Or perhaps they are doing some testing at very low power. I also find it strange that you are not seeing WZME show up, since they are supposed to be channel sharing with WEDW.

It would be helpful if others in the area can re-scan to see if they receiving the same as you.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> If what you're seeing is from ESB the only explanation I can think of is they are running a directional pattern to the northeast. I'm 10 miles due west of ESB with clear line of sight and I don't see WEDW. Or perhaps they are doing some testing at very low power. I also find it strange that you are not seeing WZME show up, since they are supposed to be channel sharing with WEDW.
> 
> It would be helpful if others in the area can re-scan to see if they receiving the same as you.


WZME, RF 49.4 is not showing up.

I've checked RabbitEars and what I'm seeing is that WEDW's application to the FCC to
use the ESB is part of the station's DTS plan.- Trumbull, CT and ESB.

According to RabbitEars, and what I've been able to find in FCC filings, is that the DTS 
(ESB) application is still pending; and what makes this more of a mystery is that the 
filing is tied to the Repack frequency change to Channel 21.

The directional pattern for Channel 21 transmitting from ESB is Northwest, North, East 
and Southeast.

I have no idea what's going on, but pleased to receive the additional channels.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> WZME, RF 49.4 is not showing up.
> 
> I've checked RabbitEars and what I'm seeing is that WEDW's application to the FCC to
> use the ESB is part of the station's DTS plan.- Trumbull, CT and ESB.
> 
> According to RabbitEars, and what I've been able to find in FCC filings, is that the DTS
> (ESB) application is still pending; and what makes this more of a mystery is that the
> filing is tied to the Repack frequency change to Channel 21.
> 
> The directional pattern for Channel 21 transmitting from ESB is Northwest, North, East
> and Southeast.
> 
> I have no idea what's going on, but pleased to receive the additional channels.


I see what you're looking at and I think the coverage map on RabbitEars.info is wrong. When I look at the ESB coverage map it shows my location in NJ in the green (easy indoor) section. So if the signal pattern is truly directional, the coverage map is not accurately showing this. If there is a null to the west then the map should be showing no coverage in my area.


----------



## Trip in VA

I don't know what you're seeing, but it cannot be WEDW from anywhere besides the Trumbull site. There's no authorization to operate on channel 49 from any other location, and operation on channel 21 prior to next summer is illegal. 

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> I don't know what you're seeing, but it cannot be WEDW from anywhere besides the Trumbull site. There's no authorization to operate on channel 49 from any other location, and operation on channel 21 prior to next summer is illegal.
> 
> - Trip


Trip -

Without wanting to beat a deal horse, I shall.

As I've mentioned previously, I now have terrible reception.

Yes, WEDW is coming in on RF 49.

Trumbull. CT is some 50+ miles, Northeast of my location in Manhattan.

My Silver Sensor antenna is facing 231 degrees - to the Southwest - the opposite of the CT transmitter.

You know the Silver Sensor and how directional it is.

Even with my lousy reception, WEDW's signal is almost as strong as my best stations from ESB, 1WTC
and 4TS, in both Signal Strength and Signal Quality (S/N).

The reception is steady, be it morning, noon or night.

As you well know I'm not an RF engineer, I continue to scratch my head how I could be receiving the
station from Trumbull taking into the consideration the impediments I mentioned above????

Could the station possibly be testing from ESB without authorization?

Sign me,

Perplexed!


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> I don't know what you're seeing, but it cannot be WEDW from anywhere besides the Trumbull site. There's no authorization to operate on channel 49 from any other location, and operation on channel 21 prior to next summer is illegal.
> 
> - Trip


Trip, is it correct that the ESB site is only going to broadcast directionally to the North and East? The coverage map on your site implies a full omnidirectional signal off ESB, so I'm confused. It also doesn't make sense that WEDW would go through this entire DTS process to broadcast directionally from ESB, as the only potential viewers they would be gaining would be in northern Manhattan and parts of Westchester. The rest of the area is already covered by the Trumbull signal. I would also be curious as to what the purpose is of the Stamford CP if the DTS is going to use Trumbull and ESB.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> Trip, is it correct that the ESB site is only going to broadcast directionally to the North and East? The coverage map on your site implies a full omnidirectional signal off ESB, so I'm confused. It also doesn't make sense that WEDW would go through this entire DTS process to broadcast directionally from ESB, as the only potential viewers they would be gaining would be in northern Manhattan and parts of Westchester. The rest of the area is already covered by the Trumbull signal. I would also be curious as to what the purpose is of the Stamford CP if the DTS is going to use Trumbull and ESB.


The map is correct, showing the directional antenna that was applied for. (Though since it may be side-mounted on the building, and the antenna data submitted to the FCC does not account for the building, it may be overly optimistic.)

As for being directional, the DTS rules are very complicated and can be confusing without good diagrams, so the short answer is they've applied for as much as the DTS rules allow them to get, if the FCC listens to their arguments about why they should get even that much. The Stamford CP is part of the that process.

Finally you say "only" Manhattan as if Manhattan doesn't have millions of people in it. WEDW's population increases from fewer than 6 million at the current location to more than 18 million with the DTS. That's not the kind of thing one says "only" to.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> The map is correct, showing the directional antenna that was applied for. (Though since it may be side-mounted on the building, and the antenna data submitted to the FCC does not account for the building, it may be overly optimistic.)
> 
> As for being directional, the DTS rules are very complicated and can be confusing without good diagrams, so the short answer is they've applied for as much as the DTS rules allow them to get, if the FCC listens to their arguments about why they should get even that much. The Stamford CP is part of the that process.
> 
> Finally you say "only" Manhattan as if Manhattan doesn't have millions of people in it. WEDW's population increases from fewer than 6 million at the current location to more than 18 million with the DTS. That's not the kind of thing one says "only" to.
> 
> - Trip


I don't think I stated my question clearly enough. The Longley-Rice map indicates strong coverage from ESB across all of Manhattan and northeastern New Jersey. But if the transmission is truly directional to the north and east, that would mean no coverage for most of Manhattan and no coverage in New Jersey. That's what I'm trying to understand.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> I don't think I stated my question clearly enough. The Longley-Rice map indicates strong coverage from ESB across all of Manhattan and northeastern New Jersey. But if the transmission is truly directional to the north and east, that would mean no coverage for most of Manhattan and no coverage in New Jersey. That's what I'm trying to understand.


https://www.rabbitears.info/pattern...3600de522016028deb93426fc&rotation=47&erp=174

That's the antenna pattern on file, as indicated on RabbitEars. Does that help?

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> https://www.rabbitears.info/pattern...3600de522016028deb93426fc&rotation=47&erp=174
> 
> That's the antenna pattern on file, as indicated on RabbitEars. Does that help?
> 
> - Trip


Right, I saw that. But on that same site, if you click on Technical Data and do a Longley-Rice map, it shows coverage to the west, well outside of that directional pattern. This is what i'm looking at. Is this map correct? Maybe I'm just incorrectly interpreting this as it does not appear to be a directional pattern.

https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff3600de522016028d54eb926b4&site=2


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> Right, I saw that. But on that same site, if you click on Technical Data and do a Longley-Rice map, it shows coverage to the west, well outside of that directional pattern. This is what i'm looking at. Is this map correct? Maybe I'm just incorrectly interpreting this as it does not appear to be a directional pattern.
> 
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff3600de522016028d54eb926b4&site=2


Yes, I run RabbitEars. I'm not sure what you're confused by. The map is right. In the deepest part of the null, to the southwest, the antenna theoretically puts out 6 kW (notwithstanding that the building may block it and is not accounted for). That's not nothing.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Yes, I run RabbitEars. I'm not sure what you're confused by. The map is right. In the deepest part of the null, to the southwest, the antenna theoretically puts out 6 kW (notwithstanding that the building may block it and is not accounted for). That's not nothing.
> 
> - Trip


Ok thank you for confirming. That makes me happy because if the map is correct it means I'll be able to pull in this station from New Jersey. Hopefully the building does not block any signal to the west.
And by the way, I love your site. I have visited it regularly for many years.


----------



## NYC

SnellKrell said:


> Just checked again to see if WEDW were coming in - and yes!
> 
> Not only that, I've now noticed that I'm receiving 49.3 - CPTV Spirit -
> and, the station's other sub-channels labeled as WEDY.
> 
> The two WEDY sub-channels are displayed as 65.1, CPTV Spirit
> and 65.3, CPTV.
> 
> Anyone else receiving those stations for the first time?


A few years ago, I was able to tune in WEDW in the north east Bronx during the night time hours only. A few years ago, I stopped receiving WEDW entirely. I have done a rescan of two sets and am not getting WEDW at all at this time. Somewhat confused here, as I have a rooftop antenna and have no issues getting other stations (except for a weak signal on 13 WNET).


----------



## logger-a

SnellKrell said:


> As you well know I'm not an RF engineer, I continue to scratch my head how I could be receiving the
> station from Trumbull taking into the consideration the impediments I mentioned above????!


You are not the only head scratcher. Unfortunately, I am unable to add useful data. I do not receive the over-the-air signal of WEDW, although its transmitter in Trumbull, CT, at 28 miles, is the closest TV transmitter to me.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, my saga continues, but this time with a happy ending.

I was interested by darkegg doing so well with a relatively small antenna and
being his location on the 2nd floor.

I well know as in real estate, that reception is dependent upon "location,
location, location."

Nevertheless, just got back from my local Home Depot and bought what 
I believe to be darkgegg's antenna, the Winegard FreeVision, FVHD30H.

This antenna is a UHF and Hi-VHF design vs. my Silver Sensor which is
solely for UHF reception.

Well, the Winegard is a keeper!!!!

I'm now receiving 7, 11 and 13 with out any problems. I had lost those
3 channels even before 13 moved.

5 is back!

I'm now receiving 21!

I haven't received that channel from the moment it went digital, years ago.

My mysterious ability to receive 49 from CT has now been dissipated -
WEDW/WEDY/WZME, are now pixelated with a great deal of breakup. 

An easy trade-off for me.

This new antenna, although having some depth, is still small enough to
fit on my window sill and still allow the blinds to totally descend.

Happy Camper!!!!!


----------



## darkegg

SnellKrell said:


> Well, my saga continues, but this time with a happy ending.
> 
> I was interested by darkegg doing so well with a relatively small antenna and
> being his location on the 2nd floor.
> 
> I well know as in real estate, that reception is dependent upon "location,
> location, location."
> 
> Nevertheless, just got back from my local Home Depot and bought what
> I believe to be darkgegg's antenna, the Winegard FreeVision, FVHD30H.
> 
> This antenna is a UHF and Hi-VHF design vs. my Silver Sensor which is
> solely for UHF reception.
> 
> Well, the Winegard is a keeper!!!!
> 
> I'm now receiving 7, 11 and 13 with out any problems. I had lost those
> 3 channels even before 13 moved.
> 
> 5 is back!
> 
> I'm now receiving 21!
> 
> I haven't received that channel from the moment it went digital, years ago.
> 
> My mysterious ability to receive 49 from CT has now been dissipated -
> WEDW/WEDY/WZME, are now pixelated with a great deal of breakup.
> 
> An easy trade-off for me.
> 
> This new antenna, although having some depth, is still small enough to
> fit on my window sill and still allow the blinds to totally descend.
> 
> Happy Camper!!!!!


Yep, that's the antenna I'm using, although the exact model is FV-30BB (from Walmart), I think it's the same antenna. It's one of the antenna they recommend in reddit /r/cordcutters guide, so some credit should go to whoever that wrote that guide. I also had luck with ClearStream 2MAX, but it's a bit more expensive, a bit bigger, and bidirectional (making it susceptible to indoor interference), so I returned it.

Anyway, glad to hear it worked out for you. I don't receive Ch 21 because the antenna point in the direction opposition from the transmitter.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> Yep, that's the antenna I'm using, although the exact model is FV-30BB (from Walmart), I think it's the same antenna. It's one of the antenna they recommend in reddit /r/cordcutters guide, so some credit should go to whoever that wrote that guide. I also had luck with ClearStream 2MAX, but it's a bit more expensive, a bit bigger, and bidirectional (making it susceptible to indoor interference), so I returned it.
> 
> Anyway, glad to head it worked out for you. I don't receive Ch 21 because the antenna point in the direction opposition from the transmitter.


Again, thanks.

The antenna is facing Southwest, not toward 21 from Plainview.

Guess you'll have to wait until WLIW moves to 1WTC.

I've given up trying to rationalize reception My receiving WEDY from CT still remains an enigma to me!


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Again, thanks.
> 
> The antenna is facing Southwest, not toward 21 from Plainview.
> 
> Guess you'll have to wait until WLIW moves to 1WTC.
> 
> I've given up trying to rationalize reception My receiving WEDY from CT still remains an enigma to me!


This may come across as a dumb question, but when you were receiving WEDW did you verify that you were receiving actual CT Public Television programming? The reason I ask is that sometimes TV tuners do whacky things. When I rescanned my TV this weekend I had a station come up as WHCT-38 which is an Azteca affiliate from Hartford. But the actual programming on the channel was Jewelry TV, so somehow my TV pulled in that PSID incorrectly. There is no way I would receive WHCT from over 100 miles away.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> This may come across as a dumb question, but when you were receiving WEDW did you verify that you were receiving actual CT Public Television programming? The reason I ask is that sometimes TV tuners do whacky things. When I rescanned my TV this weekend I had a station come up as WHCT-38 which is an Azteca affiliate from Hartford. But the actual programming on the channel was Jewelry TV, so somehow my TV pulled in that PSID incorrectly. There is no way I would receive WHCT from over 100 miles away.


It most definitely was CPTV programming and the subs.


----------



## Brian in CT

SnellKrell said:


> I've given up trying to rationalize reception My receiving WEDY from CT still remains an enigma to me!


I have an idea. Sometimes when certain weather conditions are happening over a large body of water, the result is similar to tropospheric ducting. WEDW/WEDY's signal was probably enhanced by the warm muggy conditions over Long Island Sound. Notice how you stopped receiving the station after the cold front swept through. Unlike conventional tropo that usually only happens between sunset and sunrise, water aided "tropo" can happen at any time and last for days. That is my theory.


----------



## SnellKrell

Brian in CT said:


> I have an idea. Sometimes when certain weather conditions are happening over a large body of water, the result is similar to tropospheric ducting. WEDW/WEDY's signal was probably enhanced by the warm muggy conditions over Long Island Sound. Notice how you stopped receiving the station after the cold front swept through. Unlike conventional tropo that usually only happens between sunset and sunrise, water aided "tropo" can happen at any time and last for days. That is my theory.


The weather, I know plays a big role in reception.

My signal from CT never actually stopped, it broke up and pixelated at times when I switched antennas.

I just checked, the stations are there, but not as stable as they had been using the Silver Sensor.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> The weather, I know plays a big role in reception.
> 
> My signal from CT never actually stopped, it broke up and pixelated at times when I switched antennas.
> 
> I just checked, the stations are there, but not as stable as they had been using the Silver Sensor.


What floor are you on? Are you up in a high rise? Another possible explanation is maybe the signal from CT is bouncing off another building and coming into your direction (sort of like multipath to some extent). You may just be in some random "sweet spot".


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> What floor are you on? Are you up in a high rise? Another possible explanation is maybe the signal from CT is bouncing off another building and coming into your direction (sort of like multipath to some extent). You may just be in some random "sweet spot".


I'm on the 11th floor of a high rise, surrounded by 30+ story buildings.

My being in a "sweet spot," via bounced signals, could very well be what I'm experiencing.


----------



## MozzyMoz

I bought a couple of months ago the Clearstream 2Max antenna. It was indoor at first but a few weeks later I placed it on a couch in my terrace. It is facing SE at 143 to 145 degrees. Although I am very pleased with the results, I have to admit I wish I could get even more stations.
I also bought a Clearstream Eclipse for the kitchen tv.

I am at Rego Park, floor 11, some 100 ft above floor level. The terrace antenna has been connected to two devices. I am only counting RFs with mostly consistent decoded signal all day.



Terrace antenna
VHF: 3, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13
UHF: 18, 24, 25, 30, 31, 33, 36, 41, 44, 49
Kitchen antenna
All of the above except 8, 49; but it can get RF 20.


As I mentioned before, I wish these two antennas would catch something more. RF 21, for instance, since it is close (and another PBS would be _da bomb!_) 

So I am curious to know if RFs 2, 4, 32/35, 39 and 50 are truly operating. I have tried several positions inside and outside my apt but no way (more Spanish channels would also be great tbh).
In July the 2max managed to catch RF 10 from Hartford, but it is not fully consistent; and once RF 9 from Bauer Rock PA, but that is maybe the closest I could call digital TV dxing.


----------



## Brian in CT

SnellKrell said:


> My being in a "sweet spot," via bounced signals, could very well be what I'm experiencing.


Possibly. Don't discount having a nice LOS water route between you and channel 49. I get WHPX-26 from New London in strong where I am due to the same deal.


Also, congratulations on your reception improvement.


----------



## LenL

Just FYI:


*Verizon wants 5G to become a serious competitor to broadband internet. And it thinks free TV will do the trick.*

The telecom company will start selling 5G service later this year. It won't appear in smartphones for some time, but 5G will be fast enough to provide internet service to a home. To entice customers to sign on, Verizon will offer a kind of double-play service that Comcast and its competitors offer: *Television.* 

Partnering with Apple (AAPL) and Google (GOOGL), Verizon will give 5G internet customers a choice: YouTube TV service or an Apple TV. Verizon has not announced the terms, but Bloomberg reports *that Verizon will offer them free. *


----------



## nyctveng

Don't expect this in NYC anytime soon. Initial builds will be in areas with 5g friendly terrain and areas where they are not going to compete against their own FIOS product. It takes 60 5g cells to give the same coverage as a single 4g cell so you can see that would be a challenge in NYC. They will perfect the product and work out the kinks before launching in the most demanding market.



LenL said:


> Just FYI:
> 
> 
> *Verizon wants 5G to become a serious competitor to broadband internet. And it thinks free TV will do the trick.*
> 
> The telecom company will start selling 5G service later this year. It won't appear in smartphones for some time, but 5G will be fast enough to provide internet service to a home. To entice customers to sign on, Verizon will offer a kind of double-play service that Comcast and its competitors offer: *Television.*
> 
> Partnering with Apple (AAPL) and Google (GOOGL), Verizon will give 5G internet customers a choice: YouTube TV service or an Apple TV. Verizon has not announced the terms, but Bloomberg reports *that Verizon will offer them free. *


----------



## SnellKrell

Just saw an FCC filing made by WCBS asking for authorization to continue transmitting
at a reduced 245kW vs. its normal power of 385kW for up to an additional 6 months.

That is due to provide safety for the continuing work on 1WTC's mast.

First, I had assumed that once WNYW and WNET had moved and that those stations that
had reduced their power to allow work would then ramp back up to normal authorized
power levels.

I haven't seen anything yet about other stations also having to remain at reduced power
levels.

The reduced level could be necessitated by the installation of an antenna for WJLP near
the bottom of the mast.

After that, the next station scheduled to move is WLIW, and that isn't taking place until 
the implementation of the Repack's Phase 4 - to be on air by the first week of August
2019.

There are also radio stations' moves to be considered.

I, foolishly had never considered that once 1WTC was in business, transmitting signals,
14 months ago, that there wouldn't be the need for elongated periods of reduced power.

I had also thought that any work on the mast would be done after midnight and that full 
power would return early in the morning - the way things were done on ESB.

A lot I know!!!!


----------



## LenL

NYCTVENG,


You may be right about NYC but here is more that says big cities are getting 5G:


*NEW YORK* – Verizon today announced *Indianapolis* as the fourth city scheduled to receive 5G residential broadband service in the second half of 2018. The company previously said it would launch 5G in four cities this year, and Indianapolis joins *Houston, Los Angeles and Sacramento * as the first U.S. cities to get 5G service. Verizon will be the first wireless technology provider to deploy 5G residential broadband service and 5G mobile service in the United States. Home internet service will begin in the four identified markets this year. As mobile devices become available in early 2019, Verizon plans to quickly move to be first in 5G mobile service.


I see this as competing with OTA use and possibly killing it where it is deployed. My reception has gone south with the moves to 1WTC. So I would go with this if available and scrap my antennas and all the BS I have been putting up with!


----------



## LenL

Snellkrell,


As we all know their plans do not include satisfying the customers who use OTA. The customer is not us to them but rather the big broadcaster corporations with deep pockets.


We are nothing. There is no one to advocate for us. The FCC should but they too don't really care about us even though our taxes pay their wages. Heh they probably get more money from the lobbyists who line their pockets under the table!


The end game may be to kill OTA!


----------



## Jay Stone

I posted in the Long Island thread also, but FYI WLNY TV 55 has added a sub channel for Comet on 55-2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SnellKrell

Jay Stone said:


> I posted in the Long Island thread also, but FYI WLNY TV 55 has added a sub channel for Comet on 55-2
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What a pity!

WLNY had been the only "real" station in the New York Metro Area degrading
its signal with a sub-channel(s).

All the bits and bytes were allocated to one "High Test" 1080i signal!

Too bad that it didn't broadcast programming that could take full advantage 
of this. _Judge Judy's_ closeup camera has been "softened" since day 1
of going HDTV! 

Guess since Sinclair couldn't get into NY with the purchase of WPIX, it now
has a minor presence with Comet.


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> Just saw an FCC filing made by WCBS asking for authorization to continue transmitting
> at a reduced 245kW vs. its normal power of 385kW for up to an additional 6 months.
> 
> That is due to provide safety for the continuing work on 1WTC's mast.
> 
> First, I had assumed that once WNYW and WNET had moved and that those stations that
> had reduced their power to allow work would then ramp back up to normal authorized
> power levels.
> 
> I haven't seen anything yet about other stations also having to remain at reduced power
> levels.
> 
> The reduced level could be necessitated by the installation of an antenna for WJLP near
> the bottom of the mast.
> 
> After that, the next station scheduled to move is WLIW, and that isn't taking place until
> the implementation of the Repack's Phase 4 - to be on air by the first week of August
> 2019.
> 
> There are also radio stations' moves to be considered.
> 
> I, foolishly had never considered that once 1WTC was in business, transmitting signals,
> 14 months ago, that there wouldn't be the need for elongated periods of reduced power.
> 
> I had also thought that any work on the mast would be done after midnight and that full
> power would return early in the morning - the way things were done on ESB.
> 
> A lot I know!!!!


This is really a terrible situation that the powers to be allow such a situation to even happen. The antenna work should of been completed before allowing the broadcasters to use them the way they were meant to be at full power. The reception of WNBC and WCBS in central NJ has been terrible since they went to reduced power. My signal strength goes up and down and rarely holds steady. Not sure what other channels are at reduced power so I can't comment about them since I have not seen a problem with them. They should of just stayed on the Empire State Building till the antennas were ready to be used at full power. I like your comment about going to full power from morning to midnight which makes common sense to provide a quality signal just the way it used to be when they were on the ESB.


----------



## MeatChicken

Is there a tentative date for WJLP move to WTC?


----------



## SnellKrell

trailblazer said:


> This is really a terrible situation that the powers to be allow such a situation to even happen. The antenna work should of been completed before allowing the broadcasters to use them the way they were meant to be at full power. The reception of WNBC and WCBS in central NJ has been terrible since they went to reduced power. My signal strength goes up and down and rarely holds steady. Not sure what other channels are at reduced power so I can't comment about them since I have not seen a problem with them. They should of just stayed on the Empire State Building till the antennas were ready to be used at full power. I like your comment about going to full power from morning to midnight which makes common sense to provide a quality signal just the way it used to be when they were on the ESB.


I would imagine that the timing of when stations moved from ESB to 1WTC
was predicated upon the end dates of their leases at Empire.

That being said, Durst was not ready for the proper move.

Also, as I've mentioned before on the Forum, not only wasn't Durst prepared,
they didn't live up to their contractual obligations.

WNJU/WNBC was to be located on the Lower UHF Antenna.

Durst wasn't ready, 36 had to locate on the Upper UHF Antenna.

36 requested a Directional pattern. Durst couldn't deliver - could not provide the 
needed power for this.

In April of this year, WNYW had to make a request to the FCC to change the location
of its antenna on 1WTC. All along, 44 was to transmit from the Upper UHF Antenna.
Durst came back telling Fox that there wasn't enough power to allow this promised
location.

What I don't understand is that there were no last minute surprises that Durst couldn't
handle. The detailed needs for each of those stations were know, well in advance not 
only to Durst but to everyone by way of FCC filings. 

If I ran by business the way Durst runs the broadcast operation at 1WTC, I'd be out of
business!

Durst is the Empire State Building's biggest asset!!!!!


----------



## LenL

What is even funnier or sadder depending on how you feel about it is the fact they were promoting and promising such a state of the art broadcast facility the likes of which we have never seen. I read so much BS that an elephant would have to do a colonoscopy prep to top it!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> What is even funnier or sadder depending on how you feel about it is the fact they were promoting and promising such a state of the art broadcast facility the likes of which we have never seen. I read so much BS that an elephant would have to do a colonoscopy prep to top it!


I posted this on June 23rd, the one year anniversary of the official beginning of
transmission from 1WTC -

*"The facility was designed with state-of-the-art equipment and also has the infrastructure for future
broadcasting technological advancements."*

John Lyons
Assistant Vice President and Director of Broadcast Communications of the The Durst Organization


----------



## pawnbroker7

First post here but OTA for many years in Lower Manhattan near E Houston. After having very stable reception with an old Recoton rabbit ear antenna, my reception went south a couple of weeks ago and I lost most of the stations I was able to get the day before. Found this news group and after reading many of the posts, realize just how difficult it is to be OTA and satisfied since reception can shift around without making physical changes. Had a Winegard GS 2200 amplified and out of desperation pulled from storage, attached 35 ft of coax and moved it around the room. Surprisingly, I found a spot behind the couch on the wall facing uptown where I got all the stations I lost, although according to a phone app, a majority of the stations emanate from the West. Feels like it's more about getting lucky than anything to get good OTA.


----------



## Mr Tony

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/2467129-please-read-before-posting.html

as noted in the sticky
*For antenna issues of ANY kind. Even if you can't possibly imagine location mattering, do this ANYWAY: Go to TVFool.com and include a LINK ..I repeat.. a LINK to your TVFool report. Please use street addresses and not lat/lon. Most of us don't have time to go plug that in and see where you are. Your exact address will not display when you use a TVFool link. Plus, with a link, we can click on stations to get more information. Can't do that with an image.

If you don't do this, you're going to be asked to, anyway, and that costs time. No two points in the US are exactly the same, so the answer to nearly all antenna questions will be different in different locations.. even those that may only be a mile apart.*


----------



## SnellKrell

unclehonkey said:


> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/2467129-please-read-before-posting.html
> 
> as noted in the sticky
> *For antenna issues of ANY kind. Even if you can't possibly imagine location mattering, do this ANYWAY: Go to TVFool.com and include a LINK ..I repeat.. a LINK to your TVFool report. Please use street addresses and not lat/lon. Most of us don't have time to go plug that in and see where you are. Your exact address will not display when you use a TVFool link. Plus, with a link, we can click on stations to get more information. Can't do that with an image.
> 
> If you don't do this, you're going to be asked to, anyway, and that costs time. No two points in the US are exactly the same, so the answer to nearly all antenna questions will be different in different locations.. even those that may only be a mile apart.*


I haven't looked at TV Fool for quite some time.

Because of this post, I thought I'd try it.

I entered my home address and unless I did something wrong, this listing is
not only out of date, even the old information is seriously incorrect.

The site itself claims -

*"The transmitter database was last updated on July 24, 2017."*

Well, the first station to transmit from 1WTC was officially on the air on June 23, 2017.

TV Fool doesn't recognize any transmission from 1WTC.

Even looking at the out of date information, some stations emanating from ESB
are listed as being 3.0 miles from my address (that's reasonable) and other ESB
stations are stated to be 5.9 miles from me. Huh????

Also, all listings, unless my old eyes are deceiving me, totally omit the existence
of WNET, Channel 13.

Unless I've done something wrong, this website is of little or no use and is aptly
named!


----------



## LenL

TVFOOL is only for use as a last resort. It is very badly out of date for us.


Better off using other sites.


----------



## Mr Tony

LenL said:


> Better off using other sites.


such as?


----------



## LenL

unclehonkey said:


> such as?



https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps


Better, but still not correct.

This FCC site still has WNJU/WNBC, WNET and WNYW transmitting from ESB!

What makes this one worse than TV Fool is that this one is paid for by our tax dollars.


----------



## SnellKrell

Here's the RabbitEars Search page where you enter your location information
and you'll then get the most up to date information about reception.

It also has a useful option - you can add in Repack data.

https://rabbitears.info/search.php


----------



## darkegg

Looks like they were doing some work at ESB last night. WPIX was at reduced power from about 12-5am and WFUT was completely offline from 2-5am.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> Looks like they were doing some work at ESB last night. WPIX was at reduced power from about 12-5am and WFUT was completely offline from 2-5am.


Thanks for the fill in.

As I've mentioned, unlike Durst, ESB, when work needs to be done, has stations
lower their power during light viewing times - the middle of the night.

Interesting that WPIX lowered its power and not WABC.

Both transmit using the VHF Combiner - WPIX with 7.5kW while WABC puts out
a hefty 34kW.

I would have thought that WABC would also have to attenuate.

WFUT is already near the top of the mast, and if I read things correctly, for the 
Repack, it will move a bit higher. That might be the reason for the interruption - 
get things done before bad weather sets in.


----------



## speedlaw

I'm very grateful for this resource. 

I'm 40 miles north of NYC, and in NTSC days, had rock solid reception with a large roof antenna. Radio Shack VU 130. After transition, I had rock solid with that same antenna, until the balun died (15 years or so of use) and replaced it with a CM 4228. This was perfect until this winter, where it came down in weather. I put it back up, on a ten foot mast, as the lower five feet had bent....it was ok until recently....I blamed the trees filling in, plus the five feet less (I'm behind a hill, which probably makes some difference....

I'm missing 5, 11 is spotty, and 13 is spotty. I care about my boring PBS documentaries, so I gotta fix 13. Interesting how my four various tuners do or don't resolve these stations....but that's a story for another time.

I see that the transmitters are all in flux. I am considering changing my antenna again, to compensate. Who has a recommendation for a VHF-high and UHF antenna ? 

I'm willing to buy the good one, whatever it is, and will put it up on the 15 foot mast again, if my plan to re-aim the current antenna doesn't work. 

The massive Radio Shack VU 130 I used to have was great, but half of that antenna is now useless, so .... gotta fix this while the weather is still good, and with the worst case scenario of full trees.


----------



## logger-a

*WEDW DTS Proposal of 12/06/2017*

Recently, while doing a web search for another document, I stumbled across Comments of PMCM TV, LLC with the objections of the owners of WJLP to the DTS application of WEDW.


----------



## SnellKrell

logger-a said:


> Recently, while doing a web search for another document, I stumbled across Comments of PMCM TV, LLC with the objections of the owners of WJLP to the DTS application of WEDW.


It will be interesting to see if the FCC will bend to PMCM TV's challenge to WEDW DTS application.

WEDW, Bridgeport, CT, and the possible move to Stamford, is within the New York Dominant Market Area.

With the station's application for DTS, it will well continue to cover the the Bridgeport area - one of the
transmission towers will continue to be in Trumbull, CT - the same site it's using now.

Yes, by also transmitting from ESB, WEDW will vastly increase its audience.

So what?

Let's not forget how litigious PMCM TV, LLC is.

The company has moved, what is now known as WJLP to the NY Metro Area from Nevada.

The FCC had disallowed this move and was sued. A Federal Appeals Court overturned the
FCC's decision and that's how this carpetbagger waltzed into our backyard.

PMCM TV, LLC used an antiquated law that was put on the books by then Senator Bill Bradley
of New Jersey.

In 1961, Channel 13, WNTA, a commercial television station was sold and became a non-commercial 
entity.

NJ, no longer had a commercial VHF station. The Bradly legislation called for each state to have at
least 1 commercial, VHF television station. Remember, in those days, a UHF station was not an
asset.

After problems with WOR-TV's ownership, Channel 9 was reassigned to Secaucus, NJ. and new 
owners took over.

When WWOR gave up its analog signal on Channel 9 and was solely on UHF, Channel 38, NJ
no longer had a commercial "V."

Hence, PMCM TV, LLC used that old law, having no consequence in today's marketplace, and
became a NY area station with must-carry on cable satellite systems.

Sorry this took so long, but it's indicative how meaningless, old laws get in the way of progress.

I hope that the FCC finds that the PMCM TV challenge is without merit.

With so many of us having lost the ability to receive WNJN since it sold its frequency and moved
its transmission to Warrenville, NJ, the addition of WEDW emanating from ESB will be an asset.


----------



## ansky212

logger-a said:


> Recently, while doing a web search for another document, I stumbled across Comments of PMCM TV, LLC with the objections of the owners of WJLP to the DTS application of WEDW.


I read that document and it made me laugh. PMCM seems awfully concerned about the well being of TV viewers in CT. How many times can they state that these CT viewers would be underserved if this move occurred. How about they just come out and say it - they don't want more competition in the NYC area. Anybody with half a brain knows that is what the issue is. What makes this even more ironic is that WJLP is licensed to Middletown, NJ, yet they transmit from NYC. Maybe PMCM needs to practice what they preach and move their transmitter to New Jersey so they can better "serve" their community of New Jersey.


----------



## HoundBaby

Has WNYW made the move to the WTC ? I have not seen any official info posted yet on the web if this actually happened.


----------



## trailblazer

HoundBaby said:


> Has WNYW made the move to the WTC ? I have not seen any official info posted yet on the web if this actually happened.


Yes


----------



## NYC

I have not been able to tune in WMBC ch 63, even after a rescan. I understand that they have picked up the new Quest network on 63.2. Any info as to what has happened? Thanks


----------



## Useeme1234

Any chance Comet Tv gets picked up by one of networks.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> Any chance Comet Tv gets picked up by one of networks.


Don't know what you mean by "one of networks."

Comet can be found on WLNY's Channel 55.2 (Display), that is if you can receive this station.

Strangely, Comet's website lists carriage on 43.3. 43 from where????


----------



## trailblazer

NYC said:


> I have not been able to tune in WMBC ch 63, even after a rescan. I understand that they have picked up the new Quest network on 63.2. Any info as to what has happened? Thanks


WMBC channel 63 is on RF 18. Sub channel 63-2 is suppose to be Quest, but no video/audio on the channel!


----------



## Trip in VA

Comet used to be on WZME. Not anymore, as far as I know.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> Comet used to be on WZME. Not anymore, as far as I know.
> 
> - Trip


Will check tonight.

Only receive the Connecticut stations at night.


----------



## Useeme1234

Is not on wzme anymore, is on wcct tv20 but i can't receive their signal is 85 miles out. I can get Comet on the roku app, wish was shown on local channel that can be received. Quest tv seems like a channel worth a look.


----------



## Jay Stone

I like the stuff they show on Comet. It’s too bad the picture quality sucks though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## darkegg

NYC said:


> I have not been able to tune in WMBC ch 63, even after a rescan. I understand that they have picked up the new Quest network on 63.2. Any info as to what has happened? Thanks


WMBC went offline at ESB few days ago. It may have something to do with the ongoing work at ESB overnight, although it looks like they're taking a break in the weekend. We'll see if the work resumes on Monday.



Jay Stone said:


> I like the stuff they show on Comet. It’s too bad the picture quality sucks though.


COMET is a free 720p stream at their website. I know they have oficially supported apps for Roku and Apple TV, but if you don't have those, you can extract the HLS (m3u8) stream URL and play in whatever video player you have -- VLC, Android TV's Live Channels app, etc.


----------



## scorpiony

I am still receiving WMBC here on UWS 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## darkegg

scorpiony said:


> I am still receiving WMBC here on UWS


You're probably receiving it from the Montclair Heights DTS location.


----------



## scorpiony

trailblazer said:


> WMBC channel 63 is on RF 18. Sub channel 63-2 is suppose to be Quest, but no video/audio on the channel!




Looks like Quest start at 6:00AM Sunday morning.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SnellKrell

scorpiony said:


> I am still receiving WMBC here on UWS
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Since you're located on the UWS, you're probably receiving the station from its Montclair Heights transmitter.

I, too have lost the station, and living on the UES, my reception was from ESB.


----------



## MozzyMoz

I have also lost WMBC. WEDW is very weak right now, and I need to move the antenna myself to another unattainable position; when I put it back to its normal place, it is totally gone.
When aliento was taken off from WMBC, RF 18 was gone off for a day. I think it has to do with Quest coming on subchannel 2.


MM


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

For anybody who is interested, CBS and Weigel's _Decades_ began running some crawls yesterday announcing that viewers will have to visit their website at http://www.decades.com/wheretowatch/ in order to locate where to find the diginet effective September 3, 2018 at 6AM EDT. And they went very heavy with on-air promos for StartTV. Interestingly, WCBS-DT2, both OTA and via its cable feed, identified jointly as WCBS-DT2 New York and WCBS 2.2 Plainview (referencing the channel 22 translator) several times last night, but has not done so since then or at all today.

Today, the diginet has toned all of this activity down considerably, though I have no doubt the plans remain firmly in place for the Monday morning catastrophe. According to their website, the entry for "New York City" reads "New York, NY / Coming Soon - Over The Air - Coming Soon" (I hate that channel). The bottom line is always what makes these decisions, but it is fair to note that _Live Well_ has existed as a zombie for a few years now and _Me-TV_ was not an overnight success. _Decades_ has great potential in that it does not target a niche demographic, features general-entertainment programming, and can be expanded to include programming from ALL eras. Conversely, _StartTV_ will be targeting a niche demographic with a rigid limited schedule and is entering a highly competitive marketplace for that highly-sought demographic.

Guess we'll see what happens....


----------



## ansky212

How long has WMBC been transmitting from ESB? I never paid attention since they never had any programming worth watching. Quest sounds like a decent network - kind of like an OTA version of the History channel.


----------



## MozzyMoz

ansky212 said:


> How long has WMBC been transmitting from ESB? I never paid attention since they never had any programming worth watching. Quest sounds like a decent network - kind of like an OTA version of the History channel.


I don't watch it that much either, especially since the elimination of the English channel of Sinovision (used to be on 63.3). If WBMC brings it back, i'll tune it in again, but I am sure it will not happen.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> For anybody who is interested, CBS and Weigel's _Decades_ began running some crawls yesterday announcing that viewers will have to visit their website at http://www.decades.com/wheretowatch/ in order to locate where to find the diginet effective September 3, 2018 at 6AM EDT. And they went very heavy with on-air promos for StartTV. Interestingly, WCBS-DT2, both OTA and via its cable feed, identified jointly as WCBS-DT2 New York and WCBS 2.2 Plainview (referencing the channel 22 translator) several times last night, but has not done so since then or at all today.
> 
> Today, the diginet has toned all of this activity down considerably, though I have no doubt the plans remain firmly in place for the Monday morning catastrophe. According to their website, the entry for "New York City" reads "New York, NY / Coming Soon - Over The Air - Coming Soon" (I hate that channel). The bottom line is always what makes these decisions, but it is fair to note that _Live Well_ has existed as a zombie for a few years now and _Me-TV_ was not an overnight success. _Decades_ has great potential in that it does not target a niche demographic, features general-entertainment programming, and can be expanded to include programming from ALL eras. Conversely, _StartTV_ will be targeting a niche demographic with a rigid limited schedule and is entering a highly competitive marketplace for that highly-sought demographic.
> 
> Guess we'll see what happens....


UPDATE: Starting at 6PM EDT., the WCBS-DT2 New York stream is once again identifying jointly with WCBS-LD2 Plainview. Promos for _StartTV_ have also resumed. Presumably it is in the early evening and primetime hours (6 - 10PM EDT.) when CBS has determined it has the most viewers tuning in to this stream.

QUESTION: Is CBS still authorized to be operating the RF 22 Plainview, NY. translator? If not, is it legal for them to broadcast over that transmitter?


----------



## SnellKrell

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> UPDATE: Starting at 6PM EDT., the WCBS-DT2 New York stream is once again identifying jointly with WCBS-LD2 Plainview. Promos for _StartTV_ have also resumed. Presumably it is in the early evening and primetime hours (6 - 10PM EDT.) when CBS has determined it has the most viewers tuning in to this stream.
> 
> QUESTION: Is CBS still authorized to be operating the RF 22 Plainview, NY. translator? If not, is it legal for them to broadcast over that transmitter?


22 was supposed to have gone dark a while ago.

I imagine that the move to 1WTC no longer necessitated the fill-in.


----------



## ansky212

scorpiony said:


> Looks like Quest start at 6:00AM Sunday morning.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Quest is still not on the air as of 10:30am this morning (just a plain black screen on 63-2).


----------



## scorpiony

Looks like WNET increased its power today, getting full power on UWS. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SnellKrell

scorpiony said:


> Looks like WNET increased its power today, getting full power on UWS.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Unless the station lowered its power to allow work on the 1WTC,
there have been no authorized change.

The only thing on the books concerning power is when the station
changes frequency to Channel 12 and increases its power from its
current 4kW to 6.52kW. This will take place as part of the Repack's
Phase 9 - May 2019.

According to a friend, who is an RF engineer, this increase in power
will hardly make a difference.

You may be experiencing what he calls "Ducting," at atmospheric 
phenomenon affecting reception, Last night, I was even able to 
pick up Channel 27, WLNY. Albeit, it was just for a few minutes, 
but this was a first for me.

Enjoy the better signal for as long as it lasts.


----------



## darkegg

scorpiony said:


> Looks like WNET increased its power today, getting full power on UWS.


From my location, it looks like it _decreased_ its power around 9:30AM: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WNET

Some other observations:

WMBC still isn't broadcasting from ESB
W41DO has stopped broadcasting. I was seeing a "Weak Signal" message with a HSN2 phone number for the last few weeks, so maybe it's down for good now?
There was a slight reduction in power in WNYE yesterday evening.


----------



## HoundBaby

scorpiony said:


> Looks like WNET increased its power today, getting full power on UWS.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


WNET is totally dead here 27 miles west of the WTC. Was working fine until today.


----------



## scorpiony

HoundBaby said:


> WNET is totally dead here 27 miles west of the WTC. Was working fine until today.




.....then something must have changed, I still get 100% S/N and 100% Strength.... very odd. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ansky212

HoundBaby said:


> WNET is totally dead here 27 miles west of the WTC. Was working fine until today.


I'm 10 miles due west of the WTC and I'm getting WNET at 100% signal strength.


----------



## HoundBaby

ansky212 said:


> I'm 10 miles due west of the WTC and I'm getting WNET at 100% signal strength.


Just did a rescan and 13 is very very weak. Just pixalalation. This was my strongest VHF channel too.


----------



## ALP

HoundBaby said:


> Just did a rescan and 13 is very very weak. Just pixalalation. This was my strongest VHF channel too.



I wonder what is going on, I am getting Channel 13 with good strength and good PQ.


----------



## nyctveng

darkegg said:


> [*]W41DO has stopped broadcasting. I was seeing a "Weak Signal" message with a HSN2 phone number for the last few weeks, so maybe it's down for good now?
> 
> [/LIST]



The unmanned station lost their sateliite feed of HSN2 and never fixed it. The toll fee phone number is overlayed normally so that HSN knows how the viewers receive the network and the sales commission is sent to the proper station. Many cable companies and local OTA stations had equipment that did this, each with a different phone number. Without the overlay, the HSN numbers are 800-284-3100, 3200, 3400.


----------



## nyctveng

SnellKrell said:


> According to a friend, who is an RF engineer, this increase in power
> will hardly make a difference.
> .


It may for the viewers with borderline reception which you can see here is more than a few.

If it made no difference, then it wouldn't be done.

I'm a long time engineer in this market for what it's worth.


----------



## speedlaw

ALP said:


> I wonder what is going on, I am getting Channel 13 with good strength and good PQ.


Using a CM4228HD on ten feet of pole above roof. Tuner is a Tivo Roamio OTA.

40 miles north of NYC, near river, 

steady 72 for Channel 13 as of this moment. 11:20 pm EST. 

11 is 55 with some ribbons, but watchable. 11 is the lowest VHF hi at my location, always...

7 is 67 and stable. 7 has been the most consistent of the VHF-Hi stations.

Very odd that 13 is stronger than 7. First time I've seen this. In the past, with my broadband antenna, I've seen 98% on 7

The 4228 got covered with snow last winter, froze solid, and a burst took the now 25 + lb antenna down. I put it up on the two poles remaining (the third pole folded over) and lost signal strength on all channels...I'm behind some ridges and the 5 feet DID make a difference. Project before weather turns is to re-raise it, and if that doesn't work, buy a bigger antenna with VHF elements...although the CM 4228 worked just fine on VHF high before it fell over...


----------



## scorpiony

speedlaw said:


> Using a CM4228HD on ten feet of pole above roof. Tuner is a Tivo Roamio OTA.
> 
> 
> 
> 40 miles north of NYC, near river,
> 
> 
> 
> steady 72 for Channel 13 as of this moment. 11:20 pm EST.
> 
> 
> 
> 11 is 55 with some ribbons, but watchable. 11 is the lowest VHF hi at my location, always...
> 
> 
> 
> 7 is 67 and stable. 7 has been the most consistent of the VHF-Hi stations.
> 
> 
> 
> Very odd that 13 is stronger than 7. First time I've seen this.
> 
> 
> 
> The 4228 got covered with snow last winter, froze solid, and a burst took the now 25 + lb antenna down. I put it up on the two poles remaining (the third pole folded over) and lost signal strength on all channels...I'm behind some ridges and the 5 feet DID make a difference. Project before weather turns is to re-raise it, and if that doesn't work, buy a bigger antenna with VHF elements...although the CM 4228 worked just fine on VHF high before it fell over...




Apparently, many are seeing stronger signal on 13, I doubt it is due to weather/climate/atmospheric changes as one of our mates suggested. Let’s see what happens in the next few days. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> It may for the viewers with borderline reception which you can see here is more than a few.
> 
> If it made no difference, then it wouldn't be done.
> 
> I'm a long time engineer in this market for what it's worth.


The only reason it will be done is that the FCC mandated that WNET make changes.

The Repack called for WNET to give up Channel 13 an move to 12. Concomitant
with that frequency change, the FCC then assigned the new ERP for the station.

That is why there will be the slight increase in power. As for it not making a 
difference in my reception, that opinion was given by an RF expert, whose
credentials and knowledge are beyond reproach!


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> The only reason it will be done is that the FCC mandated that WNET make changes.
> 
> The Repack called for WNET to give up Channel 13 an move to 12. Concomitant
> with that frequency change, the FCC then assigned the new ERP for the station.
> 
> That is why there will be the slight increase in power. As for it not making a
> difference in my reception, that opinion was given by an RF expert, whose
> credentials and knowledge are beyond reproach!


So what exactly is the correlation between the move to channel 12 and the bump in power? And I'm wondering what the reason is that they are being mandated to move down 1 channel notch.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> So what exactly is the correlation between the move to channel 12 and the bump in power? And I'm wondering what the reason is that they are being mandated to move down 1 channel notch.


If Trip is out there, this one's for you!

SnellKrell


----------



## ALP

speedlaw said:


> Using a CM4228HD on ten feet of pole above roof. Tuner is a Tivo Roamio OTA.
> 
> 40 miles north of NYC, near river,
> 
> steady 72 for Channel 13 as of this moment. 11:20 pm EST.
> 
> 11 is 55 with some ribbons, but watchable. 11 is the lowest VHF hi at my location, always...
> 
> 7 is 67 and stable. 7 has been the most consistent of the VHF-Hi stations.
> 
> Very odd that 13 is stronger than 7. First time I've seen this.
> 
> The 4228 got covered with snow last winter, froze solid, and a burst took the now 25 + lb antenna down. I put it up on the two poles remaining (the third pole folded over) and lost signal strength on all channels...I'm behind some ridges and the 5 feet DID make a difference. Project before weather turns is to re-raise it, and if that doesn't work, buy a bigger antenna with VHF elements...although the CM 4228 worked just fine on VHF high before it fell over...



Have you considered a new antenna?


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> So what exactly is the correlation between the move to channel 12 and the bump in power?



There isn't one. WNET was assigned 4 kW on channel 12 by the FCC. WNET then requested 6.52 kW, the maximum allowed without causing more than 0.5% interference. That application was granted and, when the change in channel takes place, WNET should increase power at that time.





ansky212 said:


> And I'm wondering what the reason is that they are being mandated to move down 1 channel notch.



To prevent interference among existing high-VHF stations and those that won UHF to high-VHF bids in the auction.


- Trip


----------



## ansky212

One thing I noticed about WNET last night and this morning, is even though I'm getting 100% signal strength, there seems to be some pixelation.


----------



## ALP

I cannot keep up with all these channel changes and moves. Is WNET now on 1WTC? When will WNET switch to 12 instead of 13 (or has it already happened)?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> I cannot keep up with all these channel changes and moves. Is WNET now on 1WTC? When will WNET switch to 12 instead of 13 (or has it already happened)?


Yes, WNET is now transmitting from 1WTC.

The station is scheduled to change to Channel 12 and increase power, as part of Repack Phase 9, May 1, 2020.


----------



## Aero 1

WNET 13, 17 miles westwith double edge diffraction and my antenna still pointed towards ESB, not WTC, never had issues. 

see pic for stats


----------



## HoundBaby

Same condition on WNET this morning . Im getting the same signal levels when it was transmitting from the ESB. Same as WPIX, very poor to unwatchable. Something has changed to the signal level going west of the WTC. Like i posted yesterday it had the best VHF Signal of all the VHF channels, WABC was second . Again I’m about 28 miles from the WTC.


----------



## ansky212

HoundBaby said:


> Same condition on WNET this morning . Im getting the same signal levels when it was transmitting from the ESB. Same as WPIX, very poor to unwatchable. Something has changed to the signal level going west of the WTC. Like i posted yesterday it had the best VHF Signal of all the VHF channels, WABC was second . Again I’m about 28 miles from the WTC.


I would tend to agree that something odd is going on with WNET. I'm getting 100% signal strength yet I see occasional pixelation and banding across the screen. That's not happening on any other channels.


----------



## ansky212

Quest is now officially on the air: WMBC 63-2.

I'm getting WMBC from Montclair. It seems that the ESB issue still has not been resolved.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Quest is now officially on the air: WMBC 63-2.
> 
> I'm getting WMBC from Montclair. It seems that the ESB issue still has not been resolved.


WMBC has returned on my set.

It looks as if the station has fired up its new transmitter at 1WTC.


----------



## scorpiony

SnellKrell said:


> WMBC has returned on my set.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks as if the station has fired up its new transmitter at 1WTC.




Looks bad: signal is being broadcast in 16:9 but being squeezed into a 4:3 format on 63.2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> WMBC has returned on my set.
> 
> It looks as if the station has fired up its new transmitter at 1WTC.


I don't believe so. According to RabbitEars the WTC app is still pending. I have a directional antenna pointed at NYC and I don't receive WMBC, but my omnidirectional antenna can pick it up, so I assume what I'm seeing is from Montclair.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> I don't believe so. According to RabbitEars the WTC app is still pending. I have a directional antenna pointed at NYC and I don't receive WMBC, but my omnidirectional antenna can pick it up, so I assume what I'm seeing is from Montclair.


I had thought this possible since the Live Bandscan from Richmond Hill is showing
transmission from 1WTC.


----------



## Trip in VA

The Live Bandscan is pulling the wrong location for WMBC. I'm aware of the issue.


- Trip


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> I would tend to agree that something odd is going on with WNET. I'm getting 100% signal strength yet I see occasional pixelation and banding across the screen. That's not happening on any other channels.



No issues from my location in Randolph. Signal strength 85-87% and quality locked at 100%. Same as it was a month ago.


Your pixelation may signal quality related.


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> The Live Bandscan is pulling the wrong location for WMBC. I'm aware of the issue.
> 
> 
> - Trip


I noticed WJLP is showing the WTC location too. Did they actually move or is that one wrong too?


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> No issues from my location in Randolph. Signal strength 85-87% and quality locked at 100%. Same as it was a month ago.
> 
> 
> Your pixelation may signal quality related.


I'm noticing pixelation on 13-1 but 13-2 is fine. Not sure how a signal issue could only affect 1 subchannel.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> I noticed WJLP is showing the WTC location too. Did they actually move or is that one wrong too?



Yes, any station with two distinct transmitter sites on file, as long as one of them is not an aux, may have this issue. I need to adjust some code that I put in place to make sure the auto-scanner would pick up stations that changed channel right away to ignore cases where the channel is the same but the location is different. I've not had a chance to do it yet.



- Trip


----------



## HoundBaby

Just checked CH 13 . Signal is back to normal, SNR is 23.50+ and locked, up from 14.00. CH 7 SNR is 21.75 and locked.
CH 11 doesn’t show up at all at this hour. CH 8 SNR is at 16.50 and locked. CH 3 form 4TS Lo VHF is at 17.75 SNR and locked. The world of OTA is amazing, I can pickup CH 3 from 4TS but CH 11 is no where is sight. Plus who knows what’s happening behind the scenes with CH 13.


----------



## ansky212

HoundBaby said:


> Just checked CH 13 . Signal is back to normal, SNR is 23.50+ and locked, up from 14.00. CH 7 SNR is 21.75 and locked.
> CH 11 doesn’t show up at all at this hour. CH 8 SNR is at 16.50 and locked. CH 3 form 4TS Lo VHF is at 17.75 SNR and locked. The world of OTA is amazing, I can pickup CH 3 from 4TS but CH 11 is no where is sight. Plus you knows what’s happening behind the scenes with CH 13.


You're right about channel 13. This afternoon was pixelation all over the place with uncorrected errors in the thousands. This evening it's solid with no errors.


----------



## speedlaw

ALP said:


> Have you considered a new antenna?


Yes, but as the CM worked pretty well five feet higher, I have antenna mast coming shortly and I'm going to put it up where it was....if things don't go well due to the happenings on 1 WTC I'll change to a yagi design with VHF elements. The antenna was only lightly bent in the fall....and I bent it back.. I had a massive antenna before the CM, but after transition, 90% of the antenna was useless-and if only they'd all gone to UHF.......but I did get rf channel 3 (33.1) clearly. My location is such that I got NYC almost LOS, but hills rise behind me, so any other market-transmitter is not possible. I've tried with my ham radios, but until I get below 20 meters, I don't get much out of my little valley.

Having to catch some high VHF is stupid....it should all have gone to UHF, and what is up with still using VHF lo for DTV ? No one is putting up a massive antenna today save the crazies on this board, and even not many of us.....

Oh, and I went to Home Depot, Loews, Walmart, Bestbuy, two local HW stores. NO ONE had antenna mast in stock, even though most had wiring, connectors, and some had antennas....but no mast...brackets, splitters, etc...but not mast. With the death of Radio Shack, you have to mail order this now. Really ?


----------



## ALP

speedlaw said:


> Yes, but as the CM worked pretty well five feet higher, I have antenna mast coming shortly and I'm going to put it up where it was....if things don't go well due to the happenings on 1 WTC I'll change to a yagi design with VHF elements. The antenna was only lightly bent in the fall....and I bent it back.. I had a massive antenna before the CM, but after transition, 90% of the antenna was useless-and if only they'd all gone to UHF.......but I did get rf channel 3 (33.1) clearly. My location is such that I got NYC almost LOS, but hills rise behind me, so any other market-transmitter is not possible. I've tried with my ham radios, but until I get below 20 meters, I don't get much out of my little valley.
> 
> Having to catch some high VHF is stupid....it should all have gone to UHF, and what is up with still using VHF lo for DTV ? No one is putting up a massive antenna today save the crazies on this board, and even not many of us.....
> 
> Oh, and I went to Home Depot, Loews, Walmart, Bestbuy, two local HW stores. NO ONE had antenna mast in stock, even though most had wiring, connectors, and some had antennas....but no mast...brackets, splitters, etc...but not mast. With the death of Radio Shack, you have to mail order this now. Really ?



I have a unique situation because of the way my house is built, but I was able to use brackets to secure the antenna mast to the side of my house. I made the mast from a pipe (pretty hefty pipe) that I got locally from an electrical supply house (I think the pipe is used for heavy duty conduit). Would something like this work for you?


----------



## ansky212

HoundBaby said:


> Just checked CH 13 . Signal is back to normal, SNR is 23.50+ and locked, up from 14.00. CH 7 SNR is 21.75 and locked.
> CH 11 doesn’t show up at all at this hour. CH 8 SNR is at 16.50 and locked. CH 3 form 4TS Lo VHF is at 17.75 SNR and locked. The world of OTA is amazing, I can pickup CH 3 from 4TS but CH 11 is no where is sight. Plus who knows what’s happening behind the scenes with CH 13.


I'm not surprised you are having trouble with CH 11. I normally use an outdoor antenna and CH 11 comes in fine. But this afternoon just for fun I connected a pair of rabbit ears to my bedroom TV to see what would come in. I was able to receive channels 2 thru 9, and 13, but CH 11 was nowhere to be found. I even scanned a few times with the antenna in different positions and CH 11 never came in. I'm in West Orange up on the ridge facing NYC (I can see the entire NYC skyline out my window). So CH 11 must be broadcasting at pretty low power. I'm not surprised you can't get them out in Denville. 

As a side note, I was not able to pull in WNJN at all either. According to the coverage maps on RabbitEars, I'm in the green zone for WNJN so I should be able to easily pull them in, but I don't get anything at all.


----------



## Trip in VA

At my grandmother's house, I could usually get 11 or 13 but not both at the same time. It took me a long time to find the compromise position the antenna's now in to get both (for all the good it's doing while the Live Bandscan from her house is offline) and it came at the cost of reliable reception from WMBC/WNYE/WASA-LD at the time.


- Trip


----------



## HoundBaby

ansky212 said:


> I'm not surprised you are having trouble with CH 11. I normally use an outdoor antenna and CH 11 comes in fine. But this afternoon just for fun I connected a pair of rabbit ears to my bedroom TV to see what would come in. I was able to receive channels 2 thru 9, and 13, but CH 11 was nowhere to be found. I even scanned a few times with the antenna in different positions and CH 11 never came in. I'm in West Orange up on the ridge facing NYC (I can see the entire NYC skyline out my window). So CH 11 must be broadcasting at pretty low power. I'm not surprised you can't get them out in Denville.
> 
> As a side note, I was not able to pull in WNJN at all either. According to the coverage maps on RabbitEars, I'm in the green zone for WNJN so I should be able to easily pull them in, but I don't get anything at all.


CH 11 normally is watchable from Midnights thru Noon out here. Right now the SNR is about 17.50 and it’s actually viewable. I just got a old 5 foot radio shack mast from my cousin., so once I get time I’ll add it to my 10 foot section and see what happens.


----------



## LenL

speedlaw said:


> Yes, but as the CM worked pretty well five feet higher, I have antenna mast coming shortly and I'm going to put it up where it was....if things don't go well due to the happenings on 1 WTC I'll change to a yagi design with VHF elements. The antenna was only lightly bent in the fall....and I bent it back.. I had a massive antenna before the CM, but after transition, 90% of the antenna was useless-and if only they'd all gone to UHF.......but I did get rf channel 3 (33.1) clearly. My location is such that I got NYC almost LOS, but hills rise behind me, so any other market-transmitter is not possible. I've tried with my ham radios, but until I get below 20 meters, I don't get much out of my little valley.
> 
> Having to catch some high VHF is stupid....it should all have gone to UHF, and what is up with still using VHF lo for DTV ? No one is putting up a massive antenna today save the crazies on this board, and even not many of us.....
> 
> Oh, and I went to Home Depot, Loews, Walmart, Bestbuy, two local HW stores. NO ONE had antenna mast in stock, even though most had wiring, connectors, and some had antennas....but no mast...brackets, splitters, etc...but not mast. With the death of Radio Shack, you have to mail order this now. Really ?



I think I told you this already. The CM4228 is a great UHF antenna for outdoor use. It is not a very good VHF antenna although CM promotes it as UHF/VHF. I paired my CM4228 with a separate VHF antenna and the results were much better. Probably a mid size VHF antenna would work well for you.


----------



## trailblazer

*WCBS, WNBC Loss of Signal*

Over the last two days I have been having major issues with WCBS & WNBC whereby I could not even get a signal in Central New Jersey (Jackson Township). Last evening and today its been working fine with a signal strength of 60 to 70 for CBS and 70 to 80 on WNBC. All other stations transmitting on WTC work without issue as well as those on the Empire State Building. I am using a Hi-VHF/UHF roof antenna approximately 50 feet above the ground. One thing that I notice is the signals on the WTC are not very stable whereby signal strength is at 80 than it would suddenly drop to 65 than go back up again. In the case of CBS I have signal strength in the 60s drop to the 20s than back up. I see no such issues with the signals from the Empire State Building. It may go up or down one or two points, but nothing like the signals off the WTC. I really wish that those responsible get this mess that they created with the move to the WTC fixed so the stations at least function the way they used to off the Empire State Building. I know that some of these stations are running at reduced power, but the fluctuations that I see in signal strength make be believe that something else is going on with the antennas on WTC. It would be great if some engineering folks involved with this could come forward and address these issues.


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> I'm in West Orange up on the ridge facing NYC (I can see the entire NYC skyline out my window).



Well, that answers why you sometimes get WLNY from 70+ miles away. Nice spot to have a rooftop antenna. I'm on a hill myself, but it doesn't compare to the height of where you are. As for WNJB/WNJN-8, if you're in the "green zone" on Trip's reception maps, you should be getting the signal with just a whip or rabbit ears. That's a stumper.


----------



## WR2M

I'm in Landing NJ (Morris County) only 37 air miles west of the WTC but I live in a deep fringe area. Antenna points directly into dirt (a 200' ridge) called Mt Arlington

This weeks signals have been good and consistent, got even better last night when the cold front came through with the exception of ch 11 for about a 1/2 hour after the storm .CBS, NBC FOX, ABC and WNET were between 90 and 100%. Some Allentown channels also came in when it was still daylight which was surprising..

Setup here is HDB91X for UHF , Stellar Labs 30-2476 VHF-Hi antenna at 50 feet, RCA preamp, 75' RG11 into a 2 way 3db loss splitter


----------



## Trip in VA

Brian in CT said:


> Well, that answers why you sometimes get WLNY from 70+ miles away. Nice spot to have a rooftop antenna. I'm on a hill myself, but it doesn't compare to the height of where you are. As for WNJB/WNJN-8, if you're in the "green zone" on Trip's reception maps, you should be getting the signal with just a whip or rabbit ears. That's a stumper.


WNJB's signal is kind of terrible in my experience. It's worse than I would expect a high-VHF signal to be, typically. Makes me wonder if there isn't something more fundamentally wrong with it somehow.

Or, perhaps, adjacent-channel interference from WABC is to blame.

- Trip


----------



## Brian in CT

trailblazer said:


> Over the last two days I have been having major issues with WCBS & WNBC whereby I could not even get a signal in Central New Jersey (Jackson Township). Last evening and today its been working fine with a signal strength of 60 to 70 for CBS and 70 to 80 on WNBC. All other stations transmitting on WTC work without issue as well as those on the Empire State Building. I am using a Hi-VHF/UHF roof antenna approximately 50 feet above the ground. One thing that I notice is the signals on the WTC are not very stable whereby signal strength is at 80 than it would suddenly drop to 65 than go back up again. In the case of CBS I have signal strength in the 60s drop to the 20s than back up.



If a station's signal strength is wildly fluctuating, there could be an interference problem (ie. multipath, co-channel). For example, in the right conditions, WMGM in Wildwood (RF 36) can have its signal enhanced just enough to give your reception of WNBC fits. One of the problems with ATSC 1.0 is that a very weak signal can play havoc with a strong one on the same frequency. Since the DTV conversion, I lose WCBS about 20 nights a year when WFSB in Hartford is coming in stronger. About a dozen times, in strong tropospheric conditions, I have even gotten reception of WFSB over WCBS.


----------



## ansky212

It seems that WMBC is still not back on the air from ESB. At this point I wonder if they are just keeping that transmission off until the move to WTC.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> It seems that WMBC is still not back on the air from ESB. At this point I wonder if they are just keeping that transmission off until the move to WTC.


Coming in loud and clear here on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Coming in loud and clear here on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.


Same here. But I think that's from the Montclair broadcast location.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Same here. But I think that's from the Montclair broadcast location.


Quite doubtful that I'd be able to receive signals from Montclair with such
strength and quality - gotta be ESB.


----------



## HoundBaby

SnellKrell said:


> Quite doubtful that I'd be able to receive signals from Montclair with such
> strength and quality - gotta be ESB.


Looks good here too.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Quite doubtful that I'd be able to receive signals from Montclair with such
> strength and quality - gotta be ESB.


I don't believe it's ESB. I have a directional antenna pointed at NYC. All the ESB signals come in perfectly, but no sign of WMBC. If I spin my antenna to the north in the direction of Montclair, WMBC comes in fine. Montclair is right over the river from NYC. It's not like you're far away.


----------



## trailblazer

Brian in CT said:


> If a station's signal strength is wildly fluctuating, there could be an interference problem (ie. multipath, co-channel). For example, in the right conditions, WMGM in Wildwood (RF 36) can have its signal enhanced just enough to give your reception of WNBC fits. One of the problems with ATSC 1.0 is that a very weak signal can play havoc with a strong one on the same frequency. Since the DTV conversion, I lose WCBS about 20 nights a year when WFSB in Hartford is coming in stronger. About a dozen times, in strong tropospheric conditions, I have even gotten reception of WFSB over WCBS.



Good Point. When I had my antenna pointed towards Philly, I could never get ION on channel 61 because its RF is 31 the same as ION channel 31 in New York. Hopefully WNBC and WCBS get up to full strength soon or I will just reorient the antenna to Philly. I will lose ABC because in Philly its is on RF 6 and I have a Hi-VHF/UHF antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> I don't believe it's ESB. I have a directional antenna pointed at NYC. All the ESB signals come in perfectly, but no sign of WMBC. If I spin my antenna to the north in the direction of Montclair, WMBC comes in fine. Montclair is right over the river from NYC. It's not like you're far away.


I know where Montclair is located and have never received and signal from any
transmitter located from the other side of the river.


----------



## trailblazer

ansky212 said:


> It seems that WMBC is still not back on the air from ESB. At this point I wonder if they are just keeping that transmission off until the move to WTC.



I am in central NJ and I pick up WMBC with no problem so I assume they must be transmitting off the WTC. If they were transmitting on the ESB or Montclair, I would not be able to pick up this signal.


----------



## SnellKrell

trailblazer said:


> I am in central NJ and I pick up WMBC with no problem so I assume they must be transmitting off the WTC. If they were transmitting on the ESB or Montclair, I would not be able to pick up this signal.


When WMBC was absent for almost a week and came back, I had thought that it
had moved its NYC transmission from ESB to 1WTC.

Trip came back saying that it hadn't moved and that the station's request was
still pending. 

I just checked the RabbitEars site and the status continues to be pending.


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> When WMBC was absent for almost a week and came back, I had thought that it
> had moved its NYC transmission from ESB to 1WTC.
> 
> Trip came back saying that it hadn't moved and that the station's request was
> still pending.
> 
> I just checked the RabbitEars site and the status continues to be pending.



Interesting. According to RabbitEars, I should not receive WMBC from either ESB or Montclair.


----------



## ansky212

trailblazer said:


> I am in central NJ and I pick up WMBC with no problem so I assume they must be transmitting off the WTC. If they were transmitting on the ESB or Montclair, I would not be able to pick up this signal.


So you can pick up WTC but not ESB? That is odd as it's only about a 2 mile difference. So you can't get WABC or WPIX?


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> I don't believe it's ESB. I have a directional antenna pointed at NYC. All the ESB signals come in perfectly, but no sign of WMBC. If I spin my antenna to the north in the direction of Montclair, WMBC comes in fine. Montclair is right over the river from NYC. It's not like you're far away.


More likely you're seeing both signals when aimed at ESB, but they're out of sync to the point that the tuner can't make sense of them.

- Trip


----------



## trailblazer

ansky212 said:


> So you can pick up WTC but not ESB? That is odd as it's only about a 2 mile difference. So you can't get WABC or WPIX?



I can get WABC & WPIX off the ESB as well as other stations transmitting from there as long as the signal is strong enough.


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> More likely you're seeing both signals when aimed at ESB, but they're out of sync to the point that the tuner can't make sense of them.
> 
> - Trip


I'm not so sure about that. My antenna is directional. NYC is due east of me, and Montclair is due north of me. With the antenna pointed east I get nothing from WMBC. If I turn the antenna 90 degrees to the north, WMBC comes in fine. A directional antenna is not likely to be seeing both signals (hence the purpose of a directional antenna). If my antenna was "confused" by multiple signals, it doesn't make sense that it would only be an issue when pointed at ESB. I should see the same problem when pointed north too.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> I'm not so sure about that. My antenna is directional. NYC is due east of me, and Montclair is due north of me. With the antenna pointed east I get nothing from WMBC. If I turn the antenna 90 degrees to the north, WMBC comes in fine. A directional antenna is not likely to be seeing both signals (hence the purpose of a directional antenna). If my antenna was "confused" by multiple signals, it doesn't make sense that it would only be an issue when pointed at ESB. I should see the same problem when pointed north too.


And we all know that all directional antennas are 100% perfect and never see signal off the side or back, which is why nobody ever gets interference from adjacent markets. 

- Trip


----------



## nyctveng

ansky212 said:


> So you can pick up WTC but not ESB? That is odd as it's only about a 2 mile difference. So you can't get WABC or WPIX?


More like 4 miles


----------



## nyctveng

ansky212 said:


> I'm not so sure about that. My antenna is directional. NYC is due east of me, and Montclair is due north of me. With the antenna pointed east I get nothing from WMBC. If I turn the antenna 90 degrees to the north, WMBC comes in fine. A directional antenna is not likely to be seeing both signals (hence the purpose of a directional antenna). If my antenna was "confused" by multiple signals, it doesn't make sense that it would only be an issue when pointed at ESB. I should see the same problem when pointed north too.


As Trip implied, your "directional" antenna can pick up signals from other directions. If your antenna is picking up WMBC from both Montclair and NYC at the same time with similar signal levels, it will cancel each other out. When you point it north towards Montclair, the signal is great enough to cancel out NYC.

Just to prove that your antenna is not truly directional, when pointing the antenna towards north of you, you will still get NYC stations that are to your east.


----------



## ansky212

nyctveng said:


> As Trip implied, your "directional" antenna can pick up signals from other directions. If your antenna is picking up WMBC from both Montclair and NYC at the same time with similar signal levels, it will cancel each other out. When you point it north towards Montclair, the signal is great enough to cancel out NYC.
> 
> Just to prove that your antenna is not truly directional, when pointing the antenna towards north of you, you will still get NYC stations that are to your east.


Here's where I'm losing you. You are saying the signals cancel each other out because they are similar signal levels from both Montclair and ESB. But then you are saying the signal from Montclair is great enough to cancel out NYC. So if the signal from Montclair is greater, then how can they be similar from both locations and cancel each other out?

I wish we had someone from the station that could definitivey tell us if WMBC is broadcasting from NYC or not.


----------



## nyctveng

ansky212 said:


> Here's where I'm losing you. You are saying the signals cancel each other out because they are similar signal levels from both Montclair and ESB. But then you are saying the signal from Montclair is great enough to cancel out NYC. So if the signal from Montclair is greater, then how can they be similar from both locations and cancel each other out?


I will try to explain in layman terms. Based on your location, lets say WMBC Montclair is 100% signal at your home and WMBC WTC is 75%. Let's say turning your antenna 90 degrees drops any received signal by 25% and pointing it directly at the source keeps the full signal. That would mean:

*Directional antenna pointing at NYC:* WTC = 75% and Montclair = 75% (100% - 25%) Same signal level, they cancel each other out.

*Directional antenna pointing at Montclair:* WTC = 50% (75% - 25%) and Montclair 100%. Montclair is now twice as strong and cancels out WTC





ansky212 said:


> I wish we had someone from the station that could definitivey tell us if WMBC is broadcasting from NYC or not.


It has already been reported here that WMBC is gone from ESB and now transmitting from WTC. Most station personnel have better things to do like run a station than deal with end users.


----------



## ansky212

I just connected an omnidirectional antenna to my TV, and WMBC comes in fine. So why aren't the signals cancelling each other out?

And who reported that WMBC is broadcasting from WTC? According to RabbitEars the WTC app is still pending. And if they truly were broadcasting from WTC, then the Montclair transmitter would have been turned off. They don't have an app to broadcast from both WTC and Montclair. The DTS license only allows ESB and Montclair, not WTC.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> Here's where I'm losing you. You are saying the signals cancel each other out because they are similar signal levels from both Montclair and ESB. But then you are saying the signal from Montclair is great enough to cancel out NYC. So if the signal from Montclair is greater, then how can they be similar from both locations and cancel each other out?


His phrasing was a bit ambiguous. 

The ESB signal is highly directional away from you. Therefore, if you're aiming a huge antenna at it to try to pull it in, and a really strong signal is coming in off the side (reduced from really strong to, say, just middling), then you will have two copies of the same signal at a similar strength. Suppose they're the same strength here, so they have a 0 dB difference in strength. The speed of light in a gas is not instantaneous; so if the ESB signal arrives significantly later than the Montclair signal (which it will in this case), then it looks like severe multipath, as if it were a reflection, since the two signals are identical, just way out of sync. If it's a bigger delay than the adaptive equalizer in your receiver can handle, it will fail to decode.

Alternatively, if you aim the antenna now at Montclair, you've boosted the Montclair signal while cutting the ESB signal. As long as you've improved the situation to the point that the Montclair signal is at least 15 dB stronger than the ESB signal, now the "reflection" looks like noise that the receiver can ignore, and it decodes successfully.

- Trip


----------



## NYC

SnellKrell said:


> I know where Montclair is located and have never received and signal from any
> transmitter located from the other side of the river.


Don't know where the signal originates, however WMBC and the Quest network on 63.2 have been fine in the northeast Bronx for a few days now. I am still wondering what WJLP 33.7 is awaiting, especially since Decades did not end up there. Also wondering why one of my sets gets the 33.7 channel, but the others don't, even on the same antenna. Could it be that since there is no sound, it does not register as a channel by some sets, or can broadcasters hide a signal during setup/testing?


----------



## speedlaw

ALP said:


> I have a unique situation because of the way my house is built, but I was able to use brackets to secure the antenna mast to the side of my house. I made the mast from a pipe (pretty hefty pipe) that I got locally from an electrical supply house (I think the pipe is used for heavy duty conduit). Would something like this work for you?


Result- I bought on line some thicker gauge antenna mast, and painted it battleship gray. The antenna is now 5 feet higher, all elements were adjusted to be identical distance from the grid, and I used a fresh lead from antenna to first splitter.

Tivo Roamio OTA box.

I got a decent bump in signal strength. Interesting how all the UHF stations are the exact same value....

virtual channel/RF ch/Signal Strength

2-1	33 72 
4	36 72 
5	44 72 
7	7 72 
9	25 72 
11	11 60 
13	13 52, but now it locks cleanly. 
25	24 72  
68	30 72 

So, even though the 4228 isn't a VHF antenna, it's working again-back to lurker mode and waiting for RF 13 to buy a linear amp from Ebay...


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

NYC said:


> Don't know where the signal originates, however WMBC and the Quest network on 63.2 have been fine in the northeast Bronx for a few days now. I am still wondering what WJLP 33.7 is awaiting, especially since Decades did not end up there. Also wondering why one of my sets gets the 33.7 channel, but the others don't, even on the same antenna. Could it be that since there is no sound, it does not register as a channel by some sets, or can broadcasters hide a signal during setup/testing?


FWIW, my reception in North Jersey of WMBC-TV Newton is next to non-existent when it used to be very good. And NONE of my ATSC equipment can receive the phantom WJLP-DT7 Middletown Township stream even after rescanning.

I think at the FCC, the signals on paper look fantastic and are getting better not by the day but by the minute. Maybe the folks in Washington, DC need to get out in the real world, talk to real RF engineers and real OTA TV viewers, and maybe even turn on a TV not connected to cable television to see what is really going on.


----------



## ansky212

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> FWIW, my reception in North Jersey of WMBC-TV Newton is next to non-existent when it used to be very good. And NONE of my ATSC equipment can receive the phantom WJLP-DT7 Middletown Township stream even after rescanning.
> 
> I think at the FCC, the signals on paper look fantastic and are getting better not by the day but by the minute. Maybe the folks in Washington, DC need to get out in the real world, talk to real RF engineers and real OTA TV viewers, and maybe even turn on a TV not connected to cable television to see what is really going on.


Part of the problem that leads to confusion are incorrect coverage maps. When I look at the ESB coverage map for WMBC, it shows my location in the green "easy indoor" coverage area. However, when I tune to the station with an outdoor antenna I can only pull in 13db, much too low to lock on a usable signal. It's the same thing with WNJB. The coverage map shows my location in the green zone, yet I can't pull in even a hint of this channel. Someone needs to figure out what these stations are doing that their coverage maps are not even close to real world. 

I agree with your point, OTA TV in general seems to be a crapshoot on what you'll be able to pull in on any given day.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> Part of the problem that leads to confusion are incorrect coverage maps. When I look at the ESB coverage map for WMBC, it shows my location in the green "easy indoor" coverage area. However, when I tune to the station with an outdoor antenna I can only pull in 13db, much too low to lock on a usable signal.


Your WMBC situation was already explained. Maps show signal strength, not quality. 



Giacomo Siffredi said:


> I think at the FCC, the signals on paper look fantastic and are getting better not by the day but by the minute. Maybe the folks in Washington, DC need to get out in the real world, talk to real RF engineers and real OTA TV viewers, and maybe even turn on a TV not connected to cable television to see what is really going on.


Yeah, if only there were a real engineer at the FCC. Perhaps one who is an expert on OTA signals, maybe runs a website about OTA stations, something like that. Ah well.

Of course, with all the arguments that people like that seem to wind up in when they engage, it's no wonder they don't like to engage much of the time.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey Trip,


Trip in VA said:


> Yeah, if only there were a real engineer at the FCC. Perhaps one who is an expert on OTA signals, maybe runs a website about OTA stations, something like that. Ah well.
> 
> Of course, with all the arguments that people like that seem to wind up in when they engage, it's no wonder they don't like to engage much of the time.
> 
> - Trip


I don't have a beef with you, nor am I questioning YOUR technical intellect. I think rabbitears.com is an excellent and informative site which I have always found kept up to date and sometimes surprisingly updated quicker with respect to subchannels than I would expect from a site that covers the entire United States along with some attention to Canada and Mexico.

With that being said, my concerns exist for the people who either may not know to seek out your site or be technically inclined to research and accomplish tasks to improve their reception. Some people are likely to get so disgusted with not being able to watch their favorite channels they may throw in the towel and subscribe to a pay TV provider, which I think only grows the beast and defeats the original intent of providing FREE advertiser/government-supported television to the public at large.

Now that _Decades_ is off the air in many major markets, have you seen how many people are griping on Facebook that they have called their cable provider to express their disgust that the provider removed the channel? I don't blame them, but they just don't understand whom is responsible for this. So for these and similar individuals, perhaps television should be a little easier.

In recent years, the FCC has approved several translators to operate on 104.7FM in and around NYC. Technically, these translators likely do not penetrate WSPK Poughkeepsie's protected contour. But when applying the physics of the real world, there are only so many translators that can be shoehorned in on one frequency before all signals become unreliable and radio listeners are deprived because a once upon a time audible station is now the go to spot for radio hash. As evidence, I submit the upper AM band as Exhibit "A". Consequently, I do question the engineering and technical background of whomever is approving these applications.

I have read through all the recent posts on the AVS New York City forum. There appears to be a growing consensus that television reception is getting worse in this market and not better. I will gladly reposition my antenna and rescan my ATSC devices. But how many times do you think the average lay viewer will rinse and repeat before hanging the white flag upon their antenna?


----------



## LenL

Giacomo,


I agree with your comments 100%. I might add that the broadcasters are promoting how great they are and the new equipment, locations (1WTC) and all the advances. Meanwhile far to many of us are losing reception. I am getting ready to give up on OTA. Climbing ladders and adjusting antennas is getting old fast! 



Every single station I receive has reduced signal strength and or quality but one. That is a mess that I have never experienced since the digital transition.


The lone exception is WNET 13.1 VHF. Signal strength rock solid at 85-87% and quality 100%



In general VHF reception has always been only fair for me while UHF was very good. So I get one VHF station well while I can't get 11.1 at all and 7.1 pixelates.


All my UHF stations are 60 or below in signal strength and quality is less than 100.


----------



## trailblazer

LenL said:


> Giacomo,
> 
> 
> I agree with your comments 100%. I might add that the broadcasters are promoting how great they are and the new equipment, locations (1WTC) and all the advances. Meanwhile far to many of us are losing reception. I am getting ready to give up on OTA. Climbing ladders and adjusting antennas is getting old fast!
> 
> 
> 
> Every single station I receive has reduced signal strength and or quality but one. That is a mess that I have never experienced since the digital transition.
> 
> 
> The lone exception is WNET 13.1 VHF. Signal strength rock solid at 85-87% and quality 100%
> 
> 
> 
> In general VHF reception has always been only fair for me while UHF was very good. So I get one VHF station well while I can't get 11.1 at all and 7.1 pixelates.
> 
> 
> All my UHF stations are 60 or below in signal strength and quality is less than 100.



In a similar situation whereby the stations that have moved to WTC, the strongest stations that I receive in Central NJ is Channel 9/RF25 with a signal strength of 75 to 85. My worst stations are Channel 2/RF33 and Channel 4, 47/RF 36 with a signal strength from 20 to 80. Its just all over the place on these two channels while all other stations on WTC work fine. Never hand this issue when the stations where on the ESB. Really annoying dealing with this issue on those two channels.


----------



## ALP

Guys, You cannot blame the FCC for specific location reception problems. The problem is lack of support by local business. In 1993 when I wanted to go OTA there was a local store that sold and installed antennas. They set me up with exactly what I need then. In 2012 (we had moved again by then ) I needed another antenna to go OTA for the house we now live in. The local store that helped me then had gone out of business. Fortunately, I found a B&M store online in Massachusetts that asked me the right questions when I called them and they got me the antenna that I needed and use today to get very good reception. That store has now also gone out of business. The FCC is a good starting guide, but you cannot expect them to know all the things that are need to get the best reception in your exact location.


----------



## ansky212

ALP said:


> Guys, You cannot blame the FCC for specific location reception problems. The problem is lack of support by local business. In 1993 when I wanted to go OTA there was a local store that sold and installed antennas. They set me up with exactly what I need then. In 2012 (we had moved again by then ) I needed another antenna to go OTA for the house we now live in. The local store that helped me then had gone out of business. Fortunately, I found a B&M store online in Massachusetts that asked me the right questions when I called them and they got me the antenna that I needed and use today to get very good reception. That store has now also gone out of business. The FCC is a good starting guide, but you cannot expect them to know all the things that are need to get the best reception in your exact location.


I don't think this is really the crux of the issue. The real issue is that you have channels moving locations (ESB to WTC). You have channels changing frequencies (RF number). You have channels changing RF a second time because of repacking. You have channels reducing power for tower maintenance. You have channels broadcasting in directional patterns. A station comes in fine one day and is non-existent the next. Then it's back to coming in fine the day after that. It's like one big cluster out there and who is keeping track of all this stuff? I highly doubt the FCC could tell you what is going on with any given station at any particular moment. I thought I was doing myself a huge favor when I cancelled cable last year. Now turning on my TV is basically a crapshoot on any given day.


----------



## LenL

Ansk212


I loved your post! You pretty much said it all perfectly! If there was a way to sabotage OTA reception it has not only been found but it has been implemented in the NYC area to perfection!


----------



## nyctveng

ansky212 said:


> I thought I was doing myself a huge favor when I cancelled cable last year. Now turning on my TV is basically a crapshoot on any given day.


There is no guarantee from stations or the FCC that your reception will be good all the time. Stations try the best they can and there are many things outside of their control. If you want reliable TV, that is what cable TV is for.


----------



## speedlaw

LenL said:


> Ansk212
> 
> 
> I loved your post! You pretty much said it all perfectly! If there was a way to sabotage OTA reception it has not only been found but it has been implemented in the NYC area to perfection!


I'm a ham so I actually enjoy playing antenna, and I'm located 42 miles north of NYC. Playing with 2 meters, I've seen a lot of radio oddity, which is fun if you're a ham, but I'm seeing folks get unhappy with their TV

In NTSC days, I had rock solid NYC signals, to the point that OTA looked WAY better than the dot-crawling junk my cable company sent out-at that time. My height and the proximity to the Hudson River (think God's' own waveguide) would get me Philly on the right days. Conversely, I cannot get anything other than that narrow down river vector, as my home is surrounded by rising hills. I've never even bothered to try to get some of the TV fool claimed stations...that's a 500 foot hill behind me, and unless I somehow got lucky with knife edge refraction, it's not happening. I can barely hear my next door Town police dispatch, but I can work a repeater on the ESB with a five watt transmitter into a modest discone. (42 miles v 7)

Often, when I lose a signal, it's my equipment. One of four TV sets wasn't locking on 11 or 13, the other three were. Answer : bad splitter. Once, I couldn't get RF 7 on one set. Answer : Bad end connector. I can only imagine if I'd taken advice given on line and then used an amplifier- havoc. I feed four sets with no amp, so unless you are legit fringe and already have a big array, I'd not amp the system.....

There is ZERO Bricks/Mortar support for OTA-you have to be willing to play with it....and yes, that does limit it. In the past, a lot of folks paid a mortgage knowing how to get a signal in their area and wire a house for folks who'd hire them. I have two dilapidated buildings in my area, XXXX TV Service, who probably lasted 20 plus years. These guys knew where you'd get a TV signal, and where you wouldn't. Their work is still sometimes seen in towers, or an old but still standing set of stacked VHF antennas. That knowledge is gone, like the secret to pyramid construction. I'm fascinated when I see, usually on an older home, in a weather protected hollow, an elaborate but still standing array-rusted, but still standing....

OTA is becoming hobbyist, and you have to view it that way as a user. That isn't a business model, but it's what we have. If you can't get a signal, and you can put up an outdoor antenna, you need a bigger one, or you need to try the other side of the house. If you can't, I agree that's a problem and that the broadcasters are the issue, but again, if you control your walls and roof, put up a bigger antenna. Period. Those tiny things you see at Best Buy are nonsense. TV Fool is a suggestion, not a guarantee. Go one bigger than it says....you won't hurt anything and at worst waste what, $40, once ?

The TV is digital, but the art of catching the radio frequency is still very analog. I'm extremely grateful for the information Trip and others provide-when I saw that the RF on his site was consistent on one channel, I knew my problems were with MY system.


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> Ansk212
> 
> 
> I loved your post! You pretty much said it all perfectly! If there was a way to sabotage OTA reception it has not only been found but it has been implemented in the NYC area to perfection!



Len and all you guys to the west of NYC, I feel for you and wish we (or someone) could figure out your reception problems. It makes no sense. Len, you live 30 miles west of the ESB and I live 30 miles north of the ESB. Since the moves to 1WTC your reception has gone to hell and mine is at the least very good to excellent. (I had four months or so of crappy CBS due to their power reduction, but they are back now.) I believe that all of the major channels are broadcasting an omnidirectional pattern. What is special about being to the north?


----------



## ALP

speedlaw said:


> I'm a ham so I actually enjoy playing antenna, and I'm located 42 miles north of NYC. Playing with 2 meters, I've seen a lot of radio oddity, which is fun if you're a ham, but I'm seeing folks get unhappy with their TV
> 
> In NTSC days, I had rock solid NYC signals, to the point that OTA looked WAY better than the dot-crawling junk my cable company sent out-at that time. My height and the proximity to the Hudson River (think God's' own waveguide) would get me Philly on the right days. Conversely, I cannot get anything other than that narrow down river vector, as my home is surrounded by rising hills. I've never even bothered to try to get some of the TV fool claimed stations...that's a 500 foot hill behind me, and unless I somehow got lucky with knife edge refraction, it's not happening. I can barely hear my next door Town police dispatch, but I can work a repeater on the ESB with a five watt transmitter into a modest discone. (42 miles v 7)
> 
> Often, when I lose a signal, it's my equipment. One of four TV sets wasn't locking on 11 or 13, the other three were. Answer : bad splitter. Once, I couldn't get RF 7 on one set. Answer : Bad end connector. I can only imagine if I'd taken advice given on line and then used an amplifier- havoc. I feed four sets with no amp, so unless you are legit fringe and already have a big array, I'd not amp the system.....
> 
> There is ZERO Bricks/Mortar support for OTA-you have to be willing to play with it....and yes, that does limit it. In the past, a lot of folks paid a mortgage knowing how to get a signal in their area and wire a house for folks who'd hire them. I have two dilapidated buildings in my area, XXXX TV Service, who probably lasted 20 plus years. These guys knew where you'd get a TV signal, and where you wouldn't. Their work is still sometimes seen in towers, or an old but still standing set of stacked VHF antennas. That knowledge is gone, like the secret to pyramid construction. I'm fascinated when I see, usually on an older home, in a weather protected hollow, an elaborate but still standing array-rusted, but still standing....
> 
> OTA is becoming hobbyist, and you have to view it that way as a user. That isn't a business model, but it's what we have. If you can't get a signal, and you can put up an outdoor antenna, you need a bigger one, or you need to try the other side of the house. If you can't, I agree that's a problem and that the broadcasters are the issue, but again, if you control your walls and roof, put up a bigger antenna. Period. Those tiny things you see at Best Buy are nonsense. TV Fool is a suggestion, not a guarantee. Go one bigger than it says....you won't hurt anything and at worst waste what, $40, once ?
> 
> The TV is digital, but the art of catching the radio frequency is still very analog. I'm extremely grateful for the information Trip and others provide-when I saw that the RF on his site was consistent on one channel, I knew my problems were with MY system.



Speedlaw's post started me thinking. As I said I am about 30 miles from the ESB on straight line of sight. Going west I am about 5 miles from the center of the Hudson river. If I make a triangle from the ESB to the center of the Hudson due west of me, from the center of the Hudson to me and then from me back to the ESB, the angle subtended by the two long sides of that triangle is about 11 degrees. 1WTC is 3 miles south of the ESB so if I used 1WTC as my starting point the angle would be about 10 degrees. I am not sure if being 30 to 33 miles from the source and 10 to 11 degrees away from the Hudson means I am getting a wave guide effect from the Hudson? I am using a big Yagi for my antenna.


----------



## speedlaw

ALP said:


> Speedlaw's post started me thinking. As I said I am about 30 miles from the ESB on straight line of sight. Going west I am about 5 miles from the center of the Hudson river. If I make a triangle from the ESB to the center of the Hudson due west of me, from the center of the Hudson to me and then from me back to the ESB, the angle subtended by the two long sides of that triangle is about 11 degrees. 1WTC is 3 miles south of the ESB so if I used 1WTC as my starting point the angle would be about 10 degrees. I am not sure if being 30 to 33 miles from the source and 10 to 11 degrees away from the Hudson means I am getting a wave guide effect from the Hudson? I am using a big Yagi for my antenna.


I'm pointed more at the river than exactly at the transmitters....my signal strength goes down directly pointed at the transmitters. That's what I mean..it's all analog and location dependent. The computer paradigm for OTA doesn't work. Some folks will get a signal first time with a coat hanger. Others will need something from NASA at 200 feet. The rest of us are in between, and if you can put up an outside antenna the vast majority can get a viewable situation. You have to experiment, there is no answer "on line", other than Netflix !


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> I might add that the broadcasters are promoting how great they are and the new equipment, locations (1WTC) and all the advances. Meanwhile far to many of us are losing reception. I am getting ready to give up on OTA.


ATSC 1.0 as a mode of transmission is very temperamental. Any little type of interference can cause reception to drop out. I just ask everyone with inconsistent reception issues to be patient. From what I've heard and read, ATSC 3.0 will solve most (if not all) of these problems. Broadcasters just need to roll it out much more quickly. Unfortunately, this won't help people living in the "nooks and crannies" of terrain. They're never going to receive OTA TV.


----------



## reddice

HoundBaby said:


> CH 11 normally is watchable from Midnights thru Noon out here. Right now the SNR is about 17.50 and it’s actually viewable. I just got a old 5 foot radio shack mast from my cousin., so once I get time I’ll add it to my 10 foot section and see what happens.


Channel 11 is watchable only when the weather is good. Nice clear sunny day it is great. Rainy damp day it is unwatchable with constant breakups.


----------



## ALP

reddice said:


> Channel 11 is watchable only when the weather is good. Nice clear sunny day it is great. Rainy damp day it is unwatchable with constant breakups.



I had the same problem with Channel 2 earlier this year when they reduced power by 1/3 when the moved to 1WTC. For about the last month or so Channel 2 has been good. During this rainy spell that we are having I may have an audio dropout or a pixillation for a second or two when it rains really hard. Have you checked the signal strength of Channel 11 compared to other channels?


----------



## 2VW

Trip in VA said:


> Yeah, if only there were a real engineer at the FCC. Perhaps one who is an expert on OTA signals, maybe runs a website about OTA stations, something like that. Ah well.
> 
> Of course, with all the arguments that people like that seem to wind up in when they engage, it's no wonder they don't like to engage much of the time.
> 
> - Trip



Dear Trip,

Consider the time spent arguing with internet experts time well spent.


Any qualified engineer will often find him/herself continuously explaining technical matters to management. Sometimes management people have no business working in decision making unless that decision is when to flip the burgers. 



Being polished at dealing with troubled personalities should be taught along with transmission line theory. 



The one thing missing with many online arguers is the silly notion that anything can be fixed with a software update.


Please keep your patience dial at eleven and know there are people who think you are doing an excellent job.


2VW


----------



## SnellKrell

2VW said:


> Dear Trip,
> 
> Consider the time spent arguing with internet experts time well spent.
> 
> 
> Any qualified engineer will often find him/herself continuously explaining technical matters to management. Sometimes management people have no business working in decision making unless that decision is when to flip the burgers.
> 
> 
> 
> Being polished at dealing with troubled personalities should be taught along with transmission line theory.
> 
> 
> 
> The one thing missing with many online arguers is the silly notion that anything can be fixed with a software update.
> 
> 
> Please keep your patience dial at eleven and know there are people who think you are doing an excellent job.
> 
> 
> 2VW


I heartily second 2VW's comments!

2VW must be a very wise and knowing person!!!!

SnellKrell


----------



## darkegg

I moved my Winegard Freevision from 2nd floor window to the attic today. Overall, reception has improved quite a bit, with signal quality >90% for almost all the channels. WJLP is still not watchable at night, but at least it locks now. I optimized antenna placement based on WNJB and it was watchable when I was setting up the antenna, but now it's pixelating a lot. I may invest in a bigger attic antenna in the future (not sure which), or just give up on WNJB.

I was able to receive WLIW by pointing the antenna east (with about 75% signal quality), but that was at the expense of less signal on other channels. I may try this again but I can wait until the repack, when I'm pretty sure I'll be able to receive WLIW from 1WTC. In the meantime, WLIW is on locast.org.


----------



## speedlaw

SnellKrell said:


> I heartily second 2VW's comments!
> 
> 2VW must be a very wise and knowing person!!!!
> 
> SnellKrell


+3. Thanks again.


----------



## darkegg

I found out my LED computer monitor on the floor below the attic is creating some interference on RF 8. The interference brings the signal quality just below the 50% mark (or around 50%) to make WNJB unwatchable. With the LED monitor turned off or in sleep mode, I can watch WNJB with some minor glitches. At this point, I'm not sure a bigger antenna will even help. I just need to go up higher away from all the household interference. VHF is a pain.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

nyctveng said:


> There is no guarantee from stations or the FCC that your reception will be good all the time. Stations try the best they can and there are many things outside of their control. If you want reliable TV, that is what cable TV is for.


Nor should there be any such guarantees implied or otherwise because OTA reception is ALWAYS dynamic with MANY variables, some of which do exist with the end-users. 

That still doesn't address the matter of approving multiple translators on one frequency, or short-spacing issues such as that which exists with WCBS-TV New York & WFSB Hartford and will continue to exist after the repack. Radio and television audiences have literally NO SAY on any of this. But, yes, cable TV is always an available option....

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r32117975-Another-Price-Hike


----------



## N2KZ

*Signal Strength and more*

Digital TV reception is challenging. Signal strength is not a good benchmark for locking a signal. What is more important is the linearity of the signal and how sharp 'the edges' are. Linearity refers to how even the signal appears across the the entire channel. You can have 40 db carrier to noise and yet not be able to lock due to poor linearity or poor definition of the waveform. Case in point is/was the UHF transmit antenna that hung on the west side of ESB from the beginning of DTV. Due to the design and structure of this particular antenna and the way it was blocked to the east and northeast it suffered from some strange linearity problems. This affected WCBS, WNBC and WWOR early on. You might receive a strong signal, but because the linearity of the signal was so uneven, it was still impossible to lock. Take a look on the web for information regarding a technical formula of measurement called MER (modulation error ratio.) I find this is the most useful figure for predicting if you will be able to achieve a good signal lock. Of course, if you just happen to own a coveted spectrum analyzer you can tell nearly immediately if a signal is good. Graphical representation of DTV is a wonderful thing. I would much rather have a good sharp and flat signal that is only 5 db above the 'grass' (noise level) than a bumpy mess at +40 db. Also worth strong consideration is the correlation between local FM broadcast frequencies and the TV frequencies you are trying to receive (the nightmare of FM harmonics.) The FM broadcast band (88-108 MHz) times two (176-216 MHz) almost perfectly covers the frequencies for high VHF channels 7 through 13 (174-216 MHz.) Some of the incessant unreliability of WNET Channel 13 may be caused by this relationship. I live about 45 miles north of NYC in Northern Westchester. My strongest FMs are on 100.7, 106.3 and 107.1 MHz. WHUD 100.7 sits on Channel 11 and the other two WFME 106.3 and WXPK 107.1 attack Channel 13. Although FM trap filters may help this situation if tuned properly, going after two frequencies landing on Channel 13 is difficult. I can't wait until WNET flips to Channel 12. Finally, signal propagation can also be a factor. When nice humid conditions occur (summertime mornings, oncoming hurricanes and many other unpredictable factors) signals can 'duct' from hundreds of miles away. For the NYC area, this includes areas down the East Coast from as far as South Carolina and as north as Boston or beyond up and down the Atlantic shore. Reception into Central New York and Central Pennsylvania are not uncommon either. When these out-of-town signals appear, you might also experience blackouts in reception. If you re-scan your set or set-top box during a 'tropo opening' you might see some entertaining DX - Yes, you can see perfect lock from TV stations hundreds of miles away. In summary, think about DTV signal linearity and FM broadcast harmonics! I would welcome your comments. Karl Zuk N2KZ Katonah, NY FN31eh


----------



## ansky212

darkegg said:


> I found out my LED computer monitor on the floor below the attic is creating some interference on RF 8. The interference brings the signal quality just below the 50% mark (or around 50%) to make WNJB unwatchable. With the LED monitor turned off or in sleep mode, I can watch WNJB with some minor glitches. At this point, I'm not sure a bigger antenna will even help. I just need to go up higher away from all the household interference. VHF is a pain.


I'm amazed you can pull in WNJB at all in Queens. I'm in NJ, less than 10 miles from the transmitter, and I get nothing.


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> I'm amazed you can pull in WNJB at all in Queens. I'm in NJ, less than 10 miles from the transmitter, and I get nothing.


It wasn't easy. I found this one spot in the attic where I could get a lock (the highest point in the attic) and hung my antenna there on a nail.


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> I'm amazed you can pull in WNJB at all in Queens. I'm in NJ, less than 10 miles from the transmitter, and I get nothing.



Since you are in West Orange you would have to relocate your antenna direction to point south west to Basking Ridge NJ and away from 1WTC and the ESB to your east.


Hence you will lose all of the NYC stations and received WNJB. When I complained to WNJB people about losing their broadcasts this was their expert advice to me. 



So now that you have expert advice what will you do with it? I flushed it down the toilet.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> Since you are in West Orange you would have to relocate your antenna direction to point south west to Basking Ridge NJ and away from 1WTC and the ESB to your east.


Yes I'm aware of the antenna direction. I even tried using an omni-directional antenna and there is still no sign of WNJB. I must be in some sort of dead zone even though the coverage map has me in the "easy indoor" area for this station. The terrain is very hilly around here so that may be part of the issue. I'm on the ridge facing east towards NYC.


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> Yes I'm aware of the antenna direction. I even tried using an omni-directional antenna and there is still no sign of WNJB. I must be in some sort of dead zone even though the coverage map has me in the "easy indoor" area for this station. The terrain is very hilly around here so that may be part of the issue. I'm on the ridge facing east towards NYC.



Keep in mind the WNJB is 8.1 VHF and so you also need a decent VHF antenna to receive the broadcast. I doubt that rabbit ears or a MOHU leaf type antenna will work well. That may be your issue.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> Keep in mind the WNJB is 8.1 VHF and so you also need a decent VHF antenna to receive the broadcast. I doubt that rabbit ears or a MOHU leaf type antenna will work well. That may be your issue.


Nope, not an antenna issue. I receive WJLP (3), WABC (7), WPIX (11) all perfectly on VHF. I'm using an outdoor VHF/UHF antenna.


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> The terrain is very hilly around here so that may be part of the issue. I'm on the ridge facing east towards NYC.


This might be a multipath issue. If the top of the ridge is close by to your west, you might be in a "shadow area."


OR


If you're using a preamp, your resulting signal for WNJB might be too strong for it to decode. That's right. Over amplified signals can cause fits for ATSC 1.0 tuners.


----------



## LIantenna585

Can anyone explain this? I just moved my antenna (GE Signal Finder indoor antenna placed inside a window and pointed directly to the west) a few inches and ran a channel scan to see if I could get any new stations, and I was able to receive WKTY, WCAU, and WPHL. The thing is, I live in northwest Suffolk County, on Long Island. I’m using an indoor antenna that can’t even get WABC, WPIX, or WWOR, so why was I able to get Philly stations (albeit for only a minute, before all of the signals dropped out)?


----------



## darkegg

LIantenna585 said:


> Can anyone explain this? I just moved my antenna (GE Signal Finder indoor antenna placed inside a window and pointed directly to the west) a few inches and ran a channel scan to see if I could get any new stations, and I was able to receive WKTY, WCAU, and WPHL. The thing is, I live in northwest Suffolk County, on Long Island. I’m using an indoor antenna that can’t even get WABC, WPIX, or WWOR, so why was I able to get Philly stations (albeit for only a minute, before all of the signals dropped out)?


This happens sometimes due to atmospheric conditions. It's called tropospheric ducting. I'm also receiving some Philly stations tonight.


----------



## ansky212

Brian in CT said:


> This might be a multipath issue. If the top of the ridge is close by to your west, you might be in a "shadow area."


That's pretty much my thought. I have trouble with radio stations from my west/southwest too. As an example, I can't pull in WDHA (105.5 from Morristown) at all from my house. But if I drive a half mile up to the other side of the ridge it comes in fine.


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> Nope, not an antenna issue. I receive WJLP (3), WABC (7), WPIX (11) all perfectly on VHF. I'm using an outdoor VHF/UHF antenna.



I'm confused. You are using an outdoor VHF/UHF antenna? So is it outdoors and are you using a rotor to change the direction? Or are you climbing the mast to do it? Or is it in your attic? How high is the antenna mounted?



Please explain how you expect to get 8.1 and also the NYC stations from your location?


Also please tell us what antenna you are using. Are you using preamps or amps with it?


----------



## LIantenna585

Apologies for another random question — if anyone could point me to a more appropriate forum/site, that would be great — but does anyone know what programming is on WMBC subchannel 7? It just shows up as “63-7” on my TV, and the only time I’ve ever seen it broadcast anything but dead air was some E/I programs Saturday morning. WMBC and its subchannels have some bizarre wonder about them. (I’ve taken a liking to SinoVision.)


----------



## rcodey

ansky212 said:


> That's pretty much my thought. I have trouble with radio stations from my west/southwest too. As an example, I can't pull in WDHA (105.5 from Morristown) at all from my house. But if I drive a half mile up to the other side of the ridge it comes in fine.


I'm almost at the top of the western ridge and Channel 8 (WNJN) comes in very strong . You're in the shadow of the mountain blocking western signals .


----------



## LenL

rcodey said:


> I'm almost at the top of the western ridge and Channel 8 (WNJN) comes in very strong . You're in the shadow of the mountain blocking western signals .



Please provide us with all of the details of your antenna setup and equipment and orientation so that we can make a valid comparison if Ansky212 ever provides the same detail.


There may be more at issue here than geography.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> Please provide us with all of the details of your antenna setup and equipment and orientation so that we can make a valid comparison if Ansky212 ever provides the same detail.
> 
> 
> There may be more at issue here than geography.


This is the antenna I'm using: https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Compact-...pID=31HRue0P-yL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


Normally I have it pointed east towards NYC, but I went outside and rotated it to my southwest to see if WNJN would come in. I can only pull in about 13db of signal. Not enough to lock the channel. I don't use any preamps either. I have also tried several indoor antennas and those don't work either. As I mentioned previously, I can't receive radio stations from the southwest either (even outside in my car), so I'm not at all surprised this channel can't be received. It's just odd that the coverage map has me in the "easy indoor" area for this channel, and I can't even get it with an outdoor antenna.


----------



## rcodey

I'm using an old Winegard Hi-VHF antenna with a channel 9 preamp from Jen Jenca . The antenna is aimed towards channel 9 in Allentown . I'm not interested in receiving Channel 8 (WNJN) as it is carried on my cable system . The Tivo signal meter shows channel 8 with a much stronger signal than channel 9 . The biggest factor is my location just below the apex on the western mountain ridge at about 520 ft . Several years ago when I had an FM radio in the house I could receive many Philadelphia FM stations . When you go down the eastern slope of the mountain and any chance of receiving those FM stations disappears . Philadelphia is towards the Southwest .


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> This is the antenna I'm using: https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Compact-...pID=31HRue0P-yL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
> 
> 
> Normally I have it pointed east towards NYC, but I went outside and rotated it to my southwest to see if WNJN would come in. I can only pull in about 13db of signal. Not enough to lock the channel. I don't use any preamps either. I have also tried several indoor antennas and those don't work either. As I mentioned previously, I can't receive radio stations from the southwest either (even outside in my car), so I'm not at all surprised this channel can't be received. It's just odd that the coverage map has me in the "easy indoor" area for this channel, and I can't even get it with an outdoor antenna.



So you have this antenna outside but you still have not provided all we need to know. Where is it outside? how is it mounted and how high up off the ground? Is it 10 feet off the ground or 40 feet? Makes a big difference for VHF especially when you have a small antenna like this one. This is not a very robust antenna and would not be useful for my location but it might work for you if you were willing to go out and rotate it when you want WNJB.


Which brings me back to even if you could get WNJB what were you going to do? Go outside and manually rotate it back and forth to the WNJB and NYC stations? There is not way you could ever receive WNJB with an antenna pointed to NYC.


----------



## logger-a

LenL said:


> Keep in mind the WNJB is 8.1 VHF and so you also need a decent VHF antenna to receive the broadcast. I doubt that rabbit ears or a MOHU leaf type antenna will work well. That may be your issue.


Rabbits ears are a decent VHF antenna. It could be necessary to adjust the length of the "ears" for each station whose VHF band signal is being viewed. MOHU leaf type antennas are relatively insensitive to VHF band singal.


----------



## LenL

logger-a said:


> Rabbits ears are a decent VHF antenna. It could be necessary to adjust the length of the "ears" for each station whose VHF band signal is being viewed. MOHU leaf type antennas are relatively insensitive to VHF band singal.



That's a funny one. Unless you live very close and have line of sight to the broadcasters rabbit ears are of no use. 

I don't think many people can use them in most NJ counties beyond Bergen and Hudson.



I am only 30 miles away and have a dedicated outdoor medium duty 5 to 6 foot long VHF antenna and I have trouble with reception from NYC.


I could probably get WNJB 8.1 if I wanted to forgo the NYC stations. Not willing to do that.


----------



## logger-a

LenL said:


> That's a funny one. Unless you live very close and have line of sight to the broadcasters rabbit ears are of no use.


It is not funny to me. The only over-the-air station that I receive has its signal in the VHF band. The transmitting antenna is 38 miles from me. There is interfering terrain between me and the station. I receive the station using rabbit ears.

Before the 600MHz auction there were two closer stations with signals in the UHF band that I was able to receive with a UHF antenna. With that UHF antenna I do not receive the signal of the UHF station that is closer to me and in the same general direction of the VHF station.

Previously, there was a UHF band station with a transmitting antenna on the same tower as the VHF band station that I receive. I was never able to receive the signal of that UHF band station.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> Which brings me back to even if you could get WNJB what were you going to do? Go outside and manually rotate it back and forth to the WNJB and NYC stations? There is not way you could ever receive WNJB with an antenna pointed to NYC.


I really had no intention of watching WNJB. I already get WNET and WLIW anyway. This was more of just an experiment to see what I could pull in since the coverage map does not jive with reality.


----------



## NYC

LIantenna585 said:


> Apologies for another random question — if anyone could point me to a more appropriate forum/site, that would be great — but does anyone know what programming is on WMBC subchannel 7? It just shows up as “63-7” on my TV, and the only time I’ve ever seen it broadcast anything but dead air was some E/I programs Saturday morning. WMBC and its subchannels have some bizarre wonder about them. (I’ve taken a liking to SinoVision.)


From what I have seen, it is just the occasional E/I programming. They had been using 63.2 for that, but moved to 63.7 since adding Quest. As for a more appropriate site, try the WMBC Program Guide. (No idea why they use 2013 in the URL, but it does bring up 2018 data.)

http://wmbctv.com/program-guides-2013/63-7-program-guide.pdf


----------



## badbob001

I'm in progress of cutting the cord from fios tv (queens) but still looking to recover some cable channels (for my father in-law).

Is it possible to receive the OTB channel (Off Track Betting) over the air? According to OTB, it's on channel 23.2, which appears to be WXXA-TV in Albany. Probably a snowball's chance in hell trying to get a clear signal from Albany.

Another is Sino TV (channel 281 on FIOS, not to be confused with SinoVision, which can be received OTA). No idea if this is actually broadcast OTA, but perhaps it's in the west coast?

On a side note, I had saw some posts on tuning antennas for stations in different directions and mentioned solutions were rotating antennas, using an a-b switch, or combining multiple signals. Has anyone tried just connecting each antenna to separate hdhomerun devices, disable the channels each device so there is no overlap, and then simply let your viewing app transparently choose the correct device/antenna to view a channel?


----------



## ansky212

badbob001 said:


> I'm in progress of cutting the cord from fios tv (queens) but still looking to recover some cable channels (for my father in-law).
> 
> Is it possible to receive the OTB channel (Off Track Betting) over the air? According to OTB, it's on channel 23.2, which appears to be WXXA-TV in Albany. Probably a snowball's chance in hell trying to get a clear signal from Albany.


Albany is 150 miles from NYC. You have no chance whatsoever of pulling in a station from there. If you're still in need of other cable channels your best bet would be to look at some of the streaming services like Sling TV, DirectvNow, Philo, etc.


----------



## Useeme1234

Years ago pre-digital I could receive wxxa fox23 out if Albany, NY using a long radio shack yagi u120 I believe, from Queens, NY. I was into dxing tv back then. I use AD 91xg roof mounted and I get pretty much everything, 91 channels including subs of course.


----------



## n2ubp

darkegg said:


> I found out my LED computer monitor on the floor below the attic is creating some interference on RF 8. The interference brings the signal quality just below the 50% mark (or around 50%) to make WNJB unwatchable. With the LED monitor turned off or in sleep mode, I can watch WNJB with some minor glitches. At this point, I'm not sure a bigger antenna will even help. I just need to go up higher away from all the household interference. VHF is a pain.


It could be the display's switching power supply makes noise. 

I found plugging some devices into a UPS reduces the noise from the device.
I also found that using digital output cables (HDMI, displayport, DVI) instead of analog VGA reduces RFI. on receivers.


----------



## darkegg

n2ubp said:


> It could be the display's switching power supply makes noise.
> 
> I found plugging some devices into a UPS reduces the noise from the device.
> I also found that using digital output cables (HDMI, displayport, DVI) instead of analog VGA reduces RFI. on receivers.


Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I just tried plugging my monitor into my UPS but it didn't help. With the monitor turned on, SNQ is around 50% and lots of pixelation. Turned off, SNQ is near 60% and rare pixelation. I'm using displayport and a DVI-to-HDMI cable.

I'll be testing a bigger antenna in the future (I'm thinking Winegard HD7694P) once I have a good enough excuse. For example, when WJLP moves to 1WTC with increased power and I still can't watch it at night, that would be a good time to test out a new antenna. Incidentally, anyone know when WJLP is moving?


----------



## nyctveng

badbob001 said:


> I'm in progress of cutting the cord from fios tv (queens) but still looking to recover some cable channels (for my father in-law).
> 
> Is it possible to receive the OTB channel (Off Track Betting) over the air? According to OTB, it's on channel 23.2, which appears to be WXXA-TV in Albany. Probably a snowball's chance in hell trying to get a clear signal from Albany.
> 
> Another is Sino TV (channel 281 on FIOS, not to be confused with SinoVision, which can be received OTA). No idea if this is actually broadcast OTA, but perhaps it's in the west coast?
> 
> On a side note, I had saw some posts on tuning antennas for stations in different directions and mentioned solutions were rotating antennas, using an a-b switch, or combining multiple signals. Has anyone tried just connecting each antenna to separate hdhomerun devices, disable the channels each device so there is no overlap, and then simply let your viewing app transparently choose the correct device/antenna to view a channel?


Sino on fios 281 is KCNS-TV from San Francisco. OTB streams their stuff online but I'm guessing your father in law prefers to watch it on TV.


----------



## ansky212

darkegg said:


> Incidentally, anyone know when WJLP is moving?


I was wondering about this too. There are many others that have to move too such as WLIW, WMBC, WABC, etc. Do these stations have to abide by any schedule or do they make moves at their leisure?


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> I was wondering about this too. There are many others that have to move too such as WLIW, WMBC, WABC, etc. Do these stations have to abide by any schedule or do they make moves at their leisure?


No station "has to move." If a station chooses to change its transmission location, it must be approved
by the FCC and coordinated with the management of the new facility. In the case of a station moving to
1WTC, the coordination must be done with the Durst Organization, the managers of the building's broadcast
facilities.

WLIW is part of the FCC's Repack Phase 4. This means that the station will have to change its channel
allocation from Channel 21 to Channel 32. The owner of WLIW, WNET has elected to move to 1WTC at
the same time as the mandated frequency change. The government will be paying for new transmission
equipment because of the frequency change.

Phase 4 has a designated "Testing Period" starting 6/22/19 and a "Completion Date" of 8/2.19.

As far as WMBC is concerned, according to the RabbitEars site, the station's application to the FCC to move
to 1WTC, is still "Pending." The station will not be changing its frequency, so the Repack rules do not apply.

Due to the loss of the North Tower, WABC has FCC approval to move to 1WTC if it chooses. As with WMBC,
this station will not be changing its frequency, so Repack rules do not apply.

Disney has a long relationship with the Durst Organization with WABC having used 4TS after the North Tower
was lost. The station maintains its Auxiliary Transmission site there. Some have said that there have been 
discussions about a move, but there's nothing that I know of to report about any progress.

Hope this is of help.


----------



## rothe

badbob001 said:


> Has anyone tried just connecting each antenna to separate hdhomerun devices, disable the channels each device so there is no overlap, and then simply let your viewing app transparently choose the correct device/antenna to view a channel?


I'm doing more or less the same thing with a home-built DVR running Snapstream's discontinued software BeyondTV. The hardware is a six-core HP workstation with seven PCIe tuners. Two tuners are connected to one antenna pointing towards Long Island for WLIW, and the other five tuners are on an antenna pointing due north for WTC and Empire. I pick up WNJB on that too. The BeyondTV software takes care of selecting which antenna to pull which channel line-up from.

The software is old, the hardware is "less old," and it all works pretty darned well.


----------



## LIantenna585

So I found one of those old GPX personal TVs and wanted to see if it worked. Obviously the AM and FM radio works fine, but I thought I would be able to get at least one low-power station near me, and I scanned through the VHF and UHF bands to no avail. However, I did it at 11pm last night, so maybe the stations had already signed off? Here is my TV Fool summary by the way:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=903841c277d7dd


----------



## ansky212

LIantenna585 said:


> So I found one of those old GPX personal TVs and wanted to see if it worked. Obviously the AM and FM radio works fine, but I thought I would be able to get at least one low-power station near me, and I scanned through the VHF and UHF bands to no avail. However, I did it at 11pm last night, so maybe the stations had already signed off? Here is my TV Fool summary by the way:
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=903841c277d7dd


Depending on how old your GPX TV is, I would imagine it only has an analog tuner. Now that TV stations have transitioned to digital any TV with an analog tuner will be completely useless. As a side note, most TV stations do not sign off during the overnight hours.


----------



## LIantenna585

ansky212 said:


> Depending on how old your GPX TV is, I would imagine it only has an analog tuner. Now that TV stations have transitioned to digital any TV with an analog tuner will be completely useless. As a side note, most TV stations do not sign off during the overnight hours.


Yep, it says it was manufactured in April 2000, so definitely only analog. I thought there are still some low power stations that operate on analog though.


----------



## speedlaw

Just returned from the UK...used Freesat TV. Looked up the 256QAM system and the MUX transmitting system. Simple antennas-full digital-usable guides.

WTF ATSC 1.0 ?


----------



## Brian in CT

LIantenna585 said:


> I thought there are still some low power stations that operate on analog though.


Yes, there are still some analog LPTVs in the USA. The only one I know of in the New York City market is w42ae in Poughkeepsie. It is a repeater for WMHT, a PBS station in Schenectady. Soon it will be converting to digital.


Just so you know, any old portable television (which sounds like what you have) is analog. Some stores were still selling them as late as the mid-aughts. Unfortunately, ATSC 1.0 TVs are not portable. That will change with the conversion to ATSC 3.0.


----------



## NYC

LIantenna585 said:


> So I found one of those old GPX personal TVs and wanted to see if it worked. Obviously the AM and FM radio works fine, but I thought I would be able to get at least one low-power station near me, and I scanned through the VHF and UHF bands to no avail. However, I did it at 11pm last night, so maybe the stations had already signed off? Here is my TV Fool summary by the way:
> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=903841c277d7dd


I have a few of those personal TVs and I doubt that you will be able to tune in anything on that set. The last analog station I was able to tune in was low power WNYZ on channel 6, showing silent movies and using the audio as an FM station, as channel 6 can be picked up on the low end of the FM band on most radios. Eventually that station went digital. The FCC did not like the fact that the audio was totally unrelated to the video. I still use my sets with a connection via the RCA jacks.


----------



## logger-a

Brian in CT said:


> Just so you know, any old portable television (which sounds like what you have) is analog. Some stores were still selling them as late as the mid-aughts. Unfortunately, ATSC 1.0 TVs are not portable. That will change with the conversion to ATSC 3.0.


Does that mean the a device like the Naxa Portable TV Model NT-70, with the feature: "Built-in Digital ATSC TV tuner that receives Free over-the-air HD TV stations", cannot actually receive over-the-air digital TV signals?


----------



## Brian in CT

logger-a said:


> Does that mean the a device like the Naxa Portable TV Model NT-70, with the feature: "Built-in Digital ATSC TV tuner that receives Free over-the-air HD TV stations", cannot actually receive over-the-air digital TV signals?


Not while you're moving (like in a car). When I think portable, I think of being able to watch TV on the go. Back in the day, I had a 5" battery operated portable television I took many places with me. This includes watching it in the back seat while travelling 65 MPH on the way to some family vacation spot. Good times.


----------



## LIantenna585

There hasn’t been any posts in a few days, so... anything to look forward to this October? Transmitter location changes, ERP increases, new subchannels?


----------



## ansky212

For anyone that may want to watch NYC local channels online, I found this site recently: 

https://www.locast.org

Supposedly it's free but I have not tried it.


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> For anyone that may want to watch NYC local channels online, I found this site recently:
> 
> https://www.locast.org
> 
> Supposedly it's free but I have not tried it.


I can recommend locast. Geo-fencing might not work out for you. You can try contacting them. They're pretty quick with replies.

Everything is 720p with about 30 seconds delay from OTA. They used to have WLNY but it looks like they removed it recently. 🙁


----------



## LIantenna585

ansky212 said:


> For anyone that may want to watch NYC local channels online, I found this site recently:
> 
> https://www.locast.org
> 
> Supposedly it's free but I have not tried it.


Yep, I remember finding that a while back trying to watch a live stream of the Yankees on PIX. It’s all free, and for a while you didn’t even have to make an account.


----------



## NYC

darkegg said:


> I can recommend locast. Geo-fencing might not work out for you. You can try contacting them. They're pretty quick with replies.
> 
> Everything is 720p with about 30 seconds delay from OTA. They used to have WLNY but it looks like they removed it recently. 🙁


Looks like they also removed channels 13, 67 and 68. Also, they only carry what's on the primary, or .1 channel, no subchannels at all.


----------



## darkegg

NYC said:


> Looks like they also removed channels 13, 67 and 68. Also, they only carry what's on the primary, or .1 channel, no subchannels at all.


Ch 68 (WFUT) is still there for me, but yes, 13 (WNET) and 67 (Justice Network) are also gone.

EDIT: WNET at least will be back according to Locast support in reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/youtubetv/comments/9jn0ow/wpix_roku_users/e6t4jt9/


----------



## KEVINL71

*Q: Can I get Locast.org outside the New York City Designated Market Area?* A: No. We use geo-fencing technology to make sure that if you are outside the local market boundary (the “Designated Market Area” as defined by Nielsen), you cannot receive the programming stream.


I tried the link here in Berlin, CT with no luck. Same with the other 5 cities that service offers (Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver and Houston).


----------



## d3193

ansky212 said:


> For anyone that may want to watch NYC local channels online, I found this site recently:
> 
> https://www.locast.org
> 
> Supposedly it's free but I have not tried it.


I tried accessing locast.org using the web browser on my LG TV, but no luck. It works fine on my desktop, but it'd be great to be able to use it on the TV.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

I know tonight's Yankee Playoff game is on TBS, but any chance it might be re-broadcast in real time on PIX 11?


----------



## ansky212

Riverside_Guy said:


> I know tonight's Yankee Playoff game is on TBS, but any chance it might be re-broadcast in real time on PIX 11?


Definitely not. TBS has exclusive rights to the game.


----------



## SnellKrell

WNJU/WNBC has requested a *third* delay in moving to the Lower UHF Antenna, NBC's original request,
intention and FCC authorized location.


Here is a part of NBC's filing with the FCC -


"Durst is the company responsible for installing the master antenna system at 1WTC to be used by multiple stations. Because of limited space on the spire, there is no room for the company to add the additional transmission lines necessary to enable directional patterns from the master antenna system. Accordingly, two non-directional antennas are being installed on the spire at 1WTC."


Durst continues to display its gross ineptitude in managing the 1WTC broadcast facility!!!!


----------



## Useeme1234

You're saying that nbc/wnju still at esb? cbs reception is pretty bad from wtc, my strongest signal are from wxtv, which still at esb..


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> You're saying that nbc/wnju still at esb? cbs reception is pretty bad from wtc, my strongest signal are from wxtv, which still at esb..


No, both stations, WNJU/WNBC have been transmitting exclusively from 1WTC since 6/23/17.


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> No, both stations, WNJU/WNBC have been transmitting exclusively from 1WTC since 6/23/17.


My reception of WCBS and WNBC/WNJU has been terrible since the move to WTC. My strongest station off WTC is WWOR which I hardly ever tune in to. All other stations off the WTC and ESB I can tune in satisfactorily. I really wish they all get there act together and set up the transmitters so that we can get at least a decent signal off the WTC. Every day I get signals from WCBS and WNBC with a signal strength jumping all over the place from the 20s to the 80s depending on the time of the day. Fortunately the signals during the evening are usual stable but not always, especially WCBS. Hopefully this all gets addressed in the near future.


----------



## ansky212

trailblazer said:


> My reception of WCBS and WNBC/WNJU has been terrible since the move to WTC. My strongest station off WTC is WWOR which I hardly ever tune in to. All other stations off the WTC and ESB I can tune in satisfactorily. I really wish they all get there act together and set up the transmitters so that we can get at least a decent signal off the WTC. Every day I get signals from WCBS and WNBC with a signal strength jumping all over the place from the 20s to the 80s depending on the time of the day. Fortunately the signals during the evening are usual stable but not always, especially WCBS. Hopefully this all gets addressed in the near future.


If you have signals fluctuating that much it's usually a sign of multipath. Have you tried moving your antenna to a different location? I used to have a similar problem with WNYW, but after moving my antenna a few feet it resolved the problem. I'm much closer to NYC than you are but my signals on WNBC and WCBS are rock solid. I don't think there is anything the stations are going to "address".


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> If you have signals fluctuating that much it's usually a sign of multipath. Have you tried moving your antenna to a different location? I used to have a similar problem with WNYW, but after moving my antenna a few feet it resolved the problem. I'm much closer to NYC than you are but my signals on WNBC and WCBS are rock solid. I don't think there is anything the stations are going to "address".


Things will change - Eventually, WNBC/WNJU will move to the Lower UHF Antenna; WCBS will return to full power.

And, let's not forget that come the implementation of the Repack's Phase 4 (Phase 9 for WNET), some stations will
not only change their frequencies, they will also change their approved power.


----------



## LIantenna585

If WNBC/WNJU are only broadcasting from 1WTC, why do my subchannels look like this?

4-1 WNBC
4-2 COZI-TV
4-3 WNBC
4-4 COZI-TV

I thought this was because they are broadcasting from both 1WTC and ESB, but apparently that’s not the case.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Things will change - Eventually, WNBC/WNJU will move to the Lower UHF Antenna; .


What difference will this make to viewers?


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> What difference will this make to viewers?


Different antenna height and different power - two key elements in reception!!!!!


----------



## Trip in VA

LIantenna585 said:


> If WNBC/WNJU are only broadcasting from 1WTC, why do my subchannels look like this?
> 
> 4-1 WNBC
> 4-2 COZI-TV
> 4-3 WNBC
> 4-4 COZI-TV
> 
> I thought this was because they are broadcasting from both 1WTC and ESB, but apparently that’s not the case.


It was because they were transmitting on both at one time. That ended, and to avoid screwing up people's DVRs until the repack next year, they mirrored 4-3 and 4-4 that had been on 1WTC as 4-1 and 4-2 when ESB was turned off. I'm told that 4-3 and 4-4 will vanish with the repack.

- Trip


----------



## NYC

Riverside_Guy said:


> I know tonight's Yankee Playoff game is on TBS, but any chance it might be re-broadcast in real time on PIX 11?


TBS is streamed on fubotv, youtube and hulu. They all offer a trial subscription.


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> It was because they were transmitting on both at one time. That ended, and to avoid screwing up people's DVRs until the repack next year, they mirrored 4-3 and 4-4 that had been on 1WTC as 4-1 and 4-2 when ESB was turned off. I'm told that 4-3 and 4-4 will vanish with the repack.
> 
> - Trip


hopefully they will increase nbc's bandwidth back to where it was. when is the repack?


----------



## trailblazer

ansky212 said:


> If you have signals fluctuating that much it's usually a sign of multipath. Have you tried moving your antenna to a different location? I used to have a similar problem with WNYW, but after moving my antenna a few feet it resolved the problem. I'm much closer to NYC than you are but my signals on WNBC and WCBS are rock solid. I don't think there is anything the stations are going to "address".


I tried moving the amtenna to a different part of the roof but the same issue. I think once WNBC/WNJU and WCBS get to their final antenna location and full signal strength, hopefully I will get a steady signal. Like I said, I only have this problem with these two channels while all others are fine.


----------



## SnellKrell

Aero 1 said:


> hopefully they will increase nbc's bandwidth back to where it was. when is the repack?


Unfortunately, the bandwidth will not go back to where it had been.

When WNBC transmitted from ESB, the station shared its signal only with Cozi.

NBCUniversal chose to sell frequencies it had been using in New York, Chicago and Philadelphia
and the government gave the company a windfall of $481.9 Million. In addition, the government
is paying for the company's stations purchase of new transmission equipment in connection with the
changes in frequencies.

Now that WNBC is only transmitting from 1WTC, the station is sharing bandwidth, not only with Cozi,
but now with WNJU and TeleXitos. 

Concerning the Repack.

NY Metro Area stations are part of the Repack's Phase 4, with the exception of WNET, which is part
of Phase 9.

Testing Starts - Phase 4 - 6/22/19; Phase 9 - 3/14/20

Completion - Phase 4 - 8/2/19; Phase 9 - 5/1/20


----------



## ansky212

So how is the repack going to affect WNBC? Are they changing RF channels again?


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> So how is the repack going to affect WNBC? Are they changing RF channels again?


Yes, the new Channel will be 35.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, the new Channel will be 35.


Great. Didn't they just change to channel 36 somewhat recently? Seems like there could have been a better way of handling this to consolidate the changes.
I have a Tivo Roamio OTA that requires Tivo to manually update the RF in the background for all these channel changes. It's been a mess.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Great. Didn't they just change to channel 36 somewhat recently? Seems like there could have been a better way of handling this to consolidate the changes.
> I have a Tivo Roamio OTA that requires Tivo to manually update the RF in the background for all these channel changes. It's been a mess.


Yes, WNBC had been on Channel 28, that frequency was sold.

The station then joined co-owned, WNJU and is using its current Channel 36, soon to become Channel 35.


----------



## Useeme1234

Snellkrell you're very knowledgeable thxs buddy. Anybody else notice wedw ch49 signal got stronger, it use to be spotty, now i get their signal at 77-80 on signal meter.


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> Snellkrell you're very knowledgeable thxs buddy. Anybody else notice wedw ch49 signal got stronger, it use to be spotty, now i get their signal at 77-80 on signal meter.


Where are you located? I get no signal at all in NJ.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> Snellkrell you're very knowledgeable thxs buddy. Anybody else notice wedw ch49 signal got stronger, it use to be spotty, now i get their signal at 77-80 on signal meter.


Any and all knowledge comes from RabbitEars; an engineer in Toms River and Google!


----------



## LIantenna585

Did WLNY increase their power or change their signal in some way? I’m assuming the answer is no, but I have a highly directional indoor antenna facing west (away from WLNY’s tower), and all of a sudden in the past few days, WLNY has become a lock for me. Before, I was lucky if I could even get the PSIP, never mind a watchable picture.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> Unfortunately, the bandwidth will not go back to where it had been.
> 
> When WNBC transmitted from ESB, the station shared its signal only with Cozi.
> 
> NBCUniversal chose to sell frequencies it had been using in New York, Chicago and Philadelphia
> and the government gave the company a windfall of $481.9 Million. In addition, the government
> is paying for the company's stations purchase of new transmission equipment in connection with the
> changes in frequencies.
> 
> Now that WNBC is only transmitting from 1WTC, the station is sharing bandwidth, not only with Cozi,
> but now with WNJU and TeleXitos.
> 
> Concerning the Repack.
> 
> NY Metro Area stations are part of the Repack's Phase 4, with the exception of WNET, which is part
> of Phase 9.
> 
> Testing Starts - Phase 4 - 6/22/19; Phase 9 - 3/14/20
> 
> Completion - Phase 4 - 8/2/19; Phase 9 - 5/1/20


OTA has always looked better than from my diretv, but now NBC OTA is horrible. Its unbelievable that now directv feed is much better.


----------



## Useeme1234

what they outta do is have all the television stations transmitting from just one location say the wtc,or esb.

this way there is need to be adjusting your antenna, the signal would lock on. right now I need two uhf antennas tied together thru a splitter to get most channels from both transmitting locations it's nuts


----------



## ansky212

EF9500 said:


> OTA has always looked better than from my diretv, but now NBC OTA is horrible. Its unbelievable that now directv feed is much better.


Interesting. I have not noticed any issues with WNBC OTA. Looks fine to me.


----------



## Useeme1234

I was flipping channels I found azteca tv is back, it shows up on wkob 42.1 in hd. They show soccer, boxing on saturdays


----------



## LIantenna585

Useeme1234 said:


> I was flipping channels I found azteca tv is back, it shows up on wkob 42.1 in hd. They show soccer, boxing on saturdays


I’ve always wanted to watch WKOB but since I’m in Suffolk Conty I have no chance. Don’t they have a construction permit to move to UHF? Would that increase their signal power?


----------



## SnellKrell

LIantenna585 said:


> I’ve always wanted to watch WKOB but since I’m in Suffolk Conty I have no chance. Don’t they have a construction permit to move to UHF? Would that increase their signal power?


The station has requested Channel 13 once WNET moves, and if granted, that won't be
until May 1, 2020.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> The station has requested Channel 13 once WNET moves, and if granted, that won't be
> until May 1, 2020.


What is the purpose of WNET having to move off of channel 13, only to have that channel potentially occupied by another station later?


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> What is the purpose of WNET having to move off of channel 13, only to have that channel potentially occupied by another station later?


When and if WKOB moves to Channel 13, it will continue to be a Lower Power station, unlike WNET.

Anything beyond that, I will defer to the learned gentleman from Alexandria.


----------



## Trip in VA

Stations in VHF were repacked in order to fit UHF-to-VHF winning bidders into the VHF band. It's hard to pin any particular winner on it, but in this case, one could observe that WGBY in Springfield, MA won a bid to go to VHF. It will move from 22 to 13. In order to fit it on 13, WNYA, WPRI, and WNET had to be moved off of 13. An LPTV station, being much smaller, could theoretically fit itself on that channel, and WKOB-LD is attempting to do so here.

- Trip


----------



## EF9500

ansky212 said:


> Interesting. I have not noticed any issues with WNBC OTA. Looks fine to me.


Its been talked about here already. Their bitrate is almost half of what it was.


----------



## reddice

It won't improve at all either until ATSC 3.0 is complete by 2030. What a slow rollout really still selling new OTA tuners in 2018 and soon 2019 with only ATSC 1.0 tuners.

By then developed countries will be doing ATSC 9.0 12K OTA streams if they still do OTA and here in the states streaming will most likely cripple OTA I then many OTA stations go streaming only.


----------



## Useeme1234

reddice said:


> It won't improve at all either until ATSC 3.0 is complete by 2030. What a slow rollout really still selling new OTA tuners in 2018 and soon 2019 with only ATSC 1.0 tuners.
> 
> By then developed countries will be doing ATSC 9.0 12K OTA streams if they still do OTA and here in the states streaming will most likely cripple OTA I then many OTA stations go streaming only.


do you really think that ota is going to be still around by 2030? I think is going to be around another 5 years, then its going to be over the top (streaming) not ota,that wins out.


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> do you really think that ota is going to be still around by 2030? I think is going to be around another 5 years, then its going to be over the top (streaming) not ota,that wins out.


OTA TV is not going away in the next 5 years. 10 years ago people were predicting that radio would be gone by now and replaced with streaming services. Here we are 10 years later and not only is FM still around, but AM too.


----------



## reddice

ansky212 said:


> OTA TV is not going away in the next 5 years. 10 years ago people were predicting that radio would be gone by now and replaced with streaming services. Here we are 10 years later and not only is FM still around, but AM too.


Only because FM and AM can't be repacked or repurposed for wireless or mobile. OTA spectrum is always being repacked and repurposed for wireless and mobile.


----------



## SnellKrell

reddice said:


> Only because FM and AM can't be repacked or repurposed for wireless or mobile. OTA spectrum is always being repacked and repurposed for wireless and mobile.


Huh?

I'm lost with this.

I receive AM and FM stations on my laptop and smartphone via apps.

I also can receive OTA FM stations on my smartphone using the wire on my ear buds as an antenna!


----------



## LIantenna585

SnellKrell said:


> I also can receive OTA FM stations on my smartphone using the wire on my ear buds as an antenna!


How do you do this?


----------



## SnellKrell

LIantenna585 said:


> How do you do this?


I have a relatively inexpensive Moto E4 smartphone and the feature is built into the phone.


----------



## DrDon

SnellKrell said:


> Huh?
> 
> I'm lost with this.
> 
> I receive AM and FM stations on my laptop and smartphone via apps.
> 
> I also can receive OTA FM stations on my smartphone using the wire on my ear buds as an antenna!


I think he meant OTA_ television_ stations are being repacked, not all-things-receivable over-the-air.


----------



## speedlaw

ansky212 said:


> OTA TV is not going away in the next 5 years. 10 years ago people were predicting that radio would be gone by now and replaced with streaming services. Here we are 10 years later and not only is FM still around, but AM too.


Agreed. Technology will march on, who ever thought we could get two or four stations on one channel ? OTA has a place, it's nice to love the internet, but there will always be OTA. 

We COULD fix digital transmission of radio, but that's a topic for a different thread.

Our system is primitive compared to Europe, where the HDTV transmits all from one tower, one stream, and all stations share one MUX. This requires more co operation than broadcasters in the US would tolerate.

Who ever thought wifi would become so common that the *telephone company* would put a wifi option on your cell phone ? It has gone from tech-y to almost required in most public spaces....

OTA won't go away, but like a guy who got in a time machine in 1985 and got out now, we will be amazed....


----------



## dstoffa

reddice said:


> Only because FM and AM can't be repacked or repurposed for wireless or mobile. OTA spectrum is always being repacked and repurposed for wireless and mobile.



Well, not really AM and FM, but the "bands" that these stations broadcast on.


Nobody wants to carry around a phone with a 3 foot antenna on it....


----------



## dreamingned

Hello people,
Been awhile since I checked in. Last time was when I setup a Winegard 210 w/ new antenna on Bldg roof.
It worked well, until a week ago when I lost only PBS 13 on both my TV's. 

I searched it online and noticed another Post about losing that channel.
PBS is the best ota channel in NY so I'm feeling starved for unbiased non-comercial news coverage.


Anyone else having issues with PBS 13?


----------



## SnellKrell

dreamingned said:


> Hello people,
> Been awhile since I checked in. Last time was when I setup a Winegard 210 w/ new antenna on Bldg roof.
> It worked well, until a week ago when I lost only PBS 13 on both my TV's.
> 
> I searched it online and noticed another Post about losing that channel.
> PBS is the best ota channel in NY so I'm feeling starved for unbiased non-comercial news coverage.
> 
> 
> Anyone else having issues with PBS 13?


Yes, I even e-mailed the station to complain about reception problems since the
move to 1WTC. Got a nice "form" reply to re-aim my antenna.

UGH!!!!!!


----------



## speedlaw

dreamingned said:


> Hello people,
> Been awhile since I checked in. Last time was when I setup a Winegard 210 w/ new antenna on Bldg roof.
> It worked well, until a week ago when I lost only PBS 13 on both my TV's.
> 
> I searched it online and noticed another Post about losing that channel.
> PBS is the best ota channel in NY so I'm feeling starved for unbiased non-comercial news coverage.
> 
> 
> Anyone else having issues with PBS 13?


Yes. They appear to be transmitting at reduced power, based on my records. While meaningless to the outside world, my relative signal strengths here, 40 miles north of NYC, show RF 13 to be lower than historically (high 70's low 80, now barely 55) when the other VHF channels are the same. If I cared enough, or if it wasn't soon fall; I'd replace the CM 4228 with a yagi with VHF high elements. There is discussion about the reduced power somewhere in this thread. At normal power, the CM is adequate for a clean lock on 13.


----------



## SnellKrell

speedlaw said:


> Yes. They appear to be transmitting at reduced power, based on my records. While meaningless to the outside world, my relative signal strengths here, 40 miles north of NYC, show RF 13 to be lower than historically (high 70's low 80, now barely 55) when the other VHF channels are the same. If I cared enough, or if it wasn't soon fall; I'd replace the CM 4228 with a yagi with VHF high elements. There is discussion about the reduced power somewhere in this thread. At normal power, the CM is adequate for a clean lock on 13.


WNET moved from ESB to 1WTC a little before the 3rd week of June.

Have you noticed an attenuation of signal strength since that time, or was it due to the move?


----------



## LenL

speedlaw said:


> Yes. They appear to be transmitting at reduced power, based on my records. While meaningless to the outside world, my relative signal strengths here, 40 miles north of NYC, show RF 13 to be lower than historically (high 70's low 80, now barely 55) when the other VHF channels are the same. If I cared enough, or if it wasn't soon fall; I'd replace the CM 4228 with a yagi with VHF high elements. There is discussion about the reduced power somewhere in this thread. At normal power, the CM is adequate for a clean lock on 13.



I think I told you this before. You should not replace your CM4228. Do what I did and add a small dedicated VHF antenna and you will get better VHF results for all of your VHF stations! The CM4228 is a poor VHF antenna unless you are close to the transmitters.


----------



## reddice

Never had issues getting stations from the original 1WTC back in the analog OTA days. However stations on the ESB were always a fuzzy mess. When the digital stations moved to the ESB I could only get most of them with a roof antenna. Now the ones that moved to the new 1WTC I can receive them with a plain old indoor antenna. The ones still on the ESB indoor antenna won't cut it.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> WNET moved from ESB to 1WTC a little before the 3rd week of June.
> 
> Have you noticed an attenuation of signal strength since that time, or was it due to the move?


I'm in NJ about 10 miles outside NYC. I have no trouble pulling in WNET, but I do see that it registers about 2 dB's less on my signal meter compared to other WTC stations. So it's possible they are running at reduced power.


----------



## ansky212

I noticed the WMBC app for One WTC has now been updated from "Pending" to "Review" status. How long does a review usually take?


----------



## LIantenna585

Weird question... but can you request QSL cards from OTA TV stations? I’m looking to start a new collection.


----------



## speedlaw

LenL said:


> I think I told you this before. You should not replace your CM4228. Do what I did and add a small dedicated VHF antenna and you will get better VHF results for all of your VHF stations! The CM4228 is a poor VHF antenna unless you are close to the transmitters.


Agreed, but I'm getting a lock on 13 and 11, even if low, and the trees will drop leaves soon, so I'm OK for the time being. I used to have a far fringe RS VU 120 antenna and would pull in a very clean and strong RF channel 3, which is the only channel I lost when I put up the 4228-but the oldies weren't worth the massive rig needed for RF 3.


----------



## dstoffa

LenL said:


> I think I told you this before. You should not replace your CM4228. Do what I did and add a small dedicated VHF antenna and you will get better VHF results for all of your VHF stations! The CM4228 is a poor VHF antenna unless you are close to the transmitters.





speedlaw said:


> Agreed, but I'm getting a lock on 13 and 11, even if low, and the trees will drop leaves soon, so I'm OK for the time being. I used to have a far fringe RS VU 120 antenna and would pull in a very clean and strong RF channel 3, which is the only channel I lost when I put up the 4228-but the oldies weren't worth the massive rig needed for RF 3.


The 4228 is actually a decent VHF antenna for Channels 9-11 and 13.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html

The reason? The continuous screen behind it. It's not so good on 7,8, and 12.


----------



## LenL

dstoffa said:


> The 4228 is actually a decent VHF antenna for Channels 9-11 and 13.
> 
> http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html
> 
> The reason? The continuous screen behind it. It's not so good on 7,8, and 12.



The comparisons are interesting. They also show a VHF only antenna outperforms the 4228 which is a great antenna. 



The screen is a reflector which does a good job for UHF and VHF. The antenna is just not designed with VHF in mind. The elements need to be much longer and the screen bigger to reflect for the longer elements. But that might impact UHF.



My mom received 7, 11 and 13 with her 4228 with great reception. However her location was devoid of trees, hills and other obstacles and she had a good line of site to the broadcast towers. This antenna will work for many for VHF. My mom was proof. 



On the other hand I am a bit further from the broadcast towers, with trees and hills in the way and I found a Small VHF antenna provided much better performance.


----------



## speedlaw

LenL said:


> The comparisons are interesting. They also show a VHF only antenna outperforms the 4228 which is a great antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> The screen is a reflector which does a good job for UHF and VHF. The antenna is just not designed with VHF in mind. The elements need to be much longer and the screen bigger to reflect for the longer elements. But that might impact UHF.
> 
> 
> 
> My mom received 7, 11 and 13 with her 4228 with great reception. However her location was devoid of trees, hills and other obstacles and she had a good line of site to the broadcast towers. This antenna will work for many for VHF. My mom was proof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand I am a bit further from the broadcast towers, with trees and hills in the way and I found a Small VHF antenna provided much better performance.


I agree. I found a comparison with my old antenna-a list of signal strengths, admittedly all from ESB. Signal strengths are pretty much the same on the UHF frequencies, between the 4228 and the big Radio shack. 7, 11 and 13 had higher signal on the bigger antenna-but as I said, it locks, so OK.


----------



## ALP

Can someone gte me up to speed on Channel 9.1 and 9.2. They are broadcasting the Gaint's game tonight on these channels to provide local coverage per NFL requirements (Monday night football is only on ESPN nationally, but local coverage of the teams playing is done on a broadcast channel). I just tried the channels and I get 9.2 fine (SDTV) but 9.1(HDTV) is unwatchable. What goes on? What is their problem with HDTV?


----------



## darkegg

ALP said:


> Can someone gte me up to speed on Channel 9.1 and 9.2. They are broadcasting the Gaint's game tonight on these channels to provide local coverage per NFL requirements (Monday night football is only on ESPN nationally, but local coverage of the teams playing is done on a broadcast channel). I just tried the channels and I get 9.2 fine (SDTV) but 9.1(HDTV) is unwatchable. What goes on? What is their problem with HDTV?


9.2 is a subchannel of WNYW (Channel 5). 9.1 is WWOR. Two different stations, but I think they are both being broadcasted from 1WTC.


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> Can someone gte me up to speed on Channel 9.1 and 9.2. They are broadcasting the Gaint's game tonight on these channels to provide local coverage per NFL requirements (Monday night football is only on ESPN nationally, but local coverage of the teams playing is done on a broadcast channel). I just tried the channels and I get 9.2 fine (SDTV) but 9.1(HDTV) is unwatchable. What goes on? What is their problem with HDTV?


9.1 and 9.2 are being transmitted from two different facilities.

9.2 (SD) is actually being sent out via WNYW's transmitter and antenna; and 9.1
originated from WWOR.

Although both are emanating from 1WTC, two different antennas and two different
frequencies.


----------



## SnellKrell

Looking at the reception of WJLP, Channel 3 on RabbitEars' Live BandScan,
Richmond Hill location, there's been a major improvement.

Unless things have changed on the receiving end, I would think that the
station has moved to 1WTC.

Anyone out there with any info?


----------



## darkegg

SnellKrell said:


> Looking at the reception of WJLP, Channel 3 on RabbitEars' Live BandScan,
> Richmond Hill location, there's been a major improvement.
> 
> Unless things have changed on the receiving end, I would think that the
> station has moved to 1WTC.
> 
> Anyone out there with any info?


Things have changed on my end. The antenna I'm using now is the RCA ANT751E. The previous antenna, Wingard Freevision had some rough times when I had my attic done few weeks ago and two of its UHF elements are missing. It was working surprising well given half of the UHF elements are missing, but I decided it was time for a new antenna. Sorry if I misled anyone. I'll try to keep things consistent in the future.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> Things have changed on my end. The antenna I'm using now is the RCA ANT751E. The previous antenna, Wingard Freevision had some rough times when I had my attic done few weeks ago and two of its UHF elements are missing. It was working surprising well given half of the UHF elements are missing, but I decided it was time for a new antenna. Sorry if I misled anyone. I'll try to keep things consistent in the future.


Thanks for the fill in.

SnellKrell


----------



## ALP

darkegg said:


> 9.2 is a subchannel of WNYW (Channel 5). 9.1 is WWOR. Two different stations, but I think they are both being broadcasted from 1WTC.



I think you must be wrong. I just checked Zap2it and the program listing for 9.1 are 9.2 identical and both are labled as "MyTV". They seem to have nothing to do with any of the four subchannels listed for Channel 5 (Fox). Does anyone here have any idea why I get good reception on 9.2 (SD) and bad on 9.1 (HD) especially iof they are both on 1WTC?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> I think you must be wrong. I just checked Zap2it and the program listing for 9.1 are 9.2 identical and both are labled as "MyTV". They seem to have nothing to do with any of the four subchannels listed for Channel 5 (Fox). Does anyone here have any idea why I get good reception on 9.2 (SD) and bad on 9.1 (HD) especially iof they are both on 1WTC?


darkegg is absolutely correct!

As I mentioned in my previous post, two different transmitting antennas, two different frequencies.

Just because both stations are being broadcast from the same location does not necessarily equal
the same reception.


----------



## darkegg

ALP said:


> I think you must be wrong. I just checked Zap2it and the program listing for 9.1 are 9.2 identical and both are labled as "MyTV". They seem to have nothing to do with any of the four subchannels listed for Channel 5 (Fox). Does anyone here have any idea why I get good reception on 9.2 (SD) and bad on 9.1 (HD) especially iof they are both on 1WTC?


You're looking at the virtual subchannels, which are different from the physical subchannels.

Here are the subchannels for RF 44, containing Ch 5 virtual subchannels and Ch 9.2:


Code:


ch=auto:44 lock=8vsb ss=100 snq=100 seq=100 bps=19251200 pps=0
3: 5.1 WNYW
4: 9.2 WWOR-SD
5: 5.2 Movies!
6: 5.4 LIGHT
tsid=0x0871

Subchannels for RF 25, containing virtual subchannels for Ch 9 and Ch 48:


Code:


ch=auto:25 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=100 seq=100 bps=19636224 pps=0
3: 9.1 WWOR-TV
5: 9.3 Buzzr
6: 9.4 Heroes
7: 48.1 WRNN-HD
8: 48.2 Stadium
9: 48.3 Arirang
tsid=0x07E3


----------



## ALP

I have a better way of asking my question now. I went to Rabbit Ears and checked the actual broadcast channels for each channel. Below is what I found. The Display Channel is listed first and the Digital Channel is second for Channel 5 and Chanel 9.

*WNYW **NEW YORK, NY*

05-1 44.3 WNYW FOX"Fox 5 New York" 
05-2 44.5 Movies! Movies!
*WWOR-TV **SECAUCUS, NJ *
05-3 25.4 WNYW-SD 
*WRNN-TV** NEW ROCHELLE, NY*05-3 25.4 WNYW-SD 
*WNYW** NEW YORK, NY*05-4 44.6 LIGHT Light TV
* WOR-TV **SECAUCUS, NJ 
*
09-1 25.3 WWOR-TV MyN"My 9" 
*WRNN-TV **NEW ROCHELLE, NY*
09-1 25.3 WWOR-TV MyN"My 9" 
*WNYW **NEW YORK, NY* 

09-2 44.4 WWOR-SD 
*WWOR-TV **SECAUCUS, NJ* 
09-3 25.5 Buzzr BUZZR
*WRNN-TV **NEW ROCHELLE, NY* 
09-3 25.5 Buzzr BUZZR
*WWOR-TV **SECAUCUS, NJ 
*09-4 25.6 Heroes Heroes & Icons

*WRNN-TV**NEW ROCHELLE, NY*
09-4 25.6 Heroes Heroes & Icons

As you can see most of Channel 5 is digital channel 44 except for 5.3 which digital channel 25. For Channel 9 most of it is digital channel 25 except for 9.2 which is digital channel 44. I checked and I do not get good reception of channel 5.3 nor do I get good reception of 9.3 or 9.4. So what I should ask is why can I not get good reception of digital channel 25? I get good reception of digital channels 33, 36, 44, 7, 11 and 13. Why can't I get 25? Is it on 1WTC or the ESB or what?


----------



## ALP

Guys, I am sorry that some of you posted while I was posting and then I saw your posts afterwards. I now understand how the sub-channels are distributed between RF25 and RF44. So my question is why do I not get good reception from RF25 when my antenna and location get good reception from RF channels 33, 36, 44,7, 11 and 13?


----------



## LIantenna585

ALP said:


> Guys, I am sorry that some of you posted while I was posting and then I saw your posts afterwards. I now understand how the sub-channels are distributed between RF25 and RF44. So my question is why do I not get good reception from RF25 when my antenna and location get good reception from RF channels 33, 36, 44,7, 11 and 13?


RF44 is broadcasting at 246 kW
RF25 is broadcasting at 57.8 kW


----------



## ALP

LIantenna585 said:


> RF44 is broadcasting at 246 kW
> RF25 is broadcasting at 57.8 kW



I see, said the blind man!


----------



## dstoffa

ALP said:


> Guys, I am sorry that some of you posted while I was posting and then I saw your posts afterwards. I now understand how the sub-channels are distributed between RF25 and RF44. So my question is why do I not get good reception from RF25 when my antenna and location get good reception from RF channels 33, 36, 44,7, 11 and 13?



RF25 is the only channel from Manhattan that I cannot get reliably, and I am a stone's throw from JFK with a roof antenna. The signal level I get on RF25 (9-1, 9-3) regularly bounces all over the place, from near 100 down to 25 and back again. It's been that way since the move downtown... Frustrating for me, too.


----------



## ansky212

dstoffa said:


> RF25 is the only channel from Manhattan that I cannot get reliably, and I am a stone's throw from JFK with a roof antenna. The signal level I get on RF25 (9-1, 9-3) regularly bounces all over the place, from near 100 down to 25 and back again. It's been that way since the move downtown... Frustrating for me, too.


Large signal fluctuations are usually a sign of multipath. Have you tried relocating your antenna to see if it makes a difference? I'm 10 miles from WTC and WWOR is rock solid from here.


----------



## LIantenna585

Is it just me, or is there an audio issue on WNBC? At times, I can hear a higher-pitched buzzing nose when people are speaking. I’m not experiencing this on any other channels.


----------



## NYC

WJLP has deleted channel 33.7, marked as Future Programming and showing only a test pattern without any sound and replaced it with 33.5 marked as UCOG. As of early Saturday the content was Spanish language spiritual programming. No mention of it at all on the station's website. A telephone number appears on screen most of the time, 1(800) 317-9466, several websites have flagged it as spam. The number is also associated with: "Canal de la Fe Florida, 24 horas en el aire siempre mostrando que hay una salida... Canal 22.2 - El Canal de la Fe" and also with iurdtv.us

Also, Locast has indicated the reason it has deleted WLNY was due to reception issues. They state that they are working on a resolution, and it is a priority. (I assume that the other Long Island station was possibly removed for the same reason.)


----------



## SnellKrell

LIantenna585 said:


> Is it just me, or is there an audio issue on WNBC? At times, I can hear a higher-pitched buzzing nose when people are speaking. I’m not experiencing this on any other channels.


No problem with WNBC's audio from the Upper East Side of Manhattan.


----------



## LIantenna585

NYC said:


> WJLP has deleted channel 33.7, marked as Future Programming and showing only a test pattern without any sound and replaced it with 33.5 marked as UCOG. As of early Saturday the content was Spanish language spiritual programming. No mention of it at all on the station's website. A telephone number appears on screen most of the time, 1(800) 317-9466, several websites have flagged it as spam. The number is also associated with: "Canal de la Fe Florida, 24 horas en el aire siempre mostrando que hay una salida... Canal 22.2 - El Canal de la Fe" and also with iurdtv.us


The new channel is “TV Universal,” a Brazilian religious channel. It is owned by the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God (UCOG).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Universal


----------



## darkegg

I noticed WJLP TSReader export on rabbitears is outdated. I've attached updated version.


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks. I've stuck it in the to-do list and will update accordingly.

- Trip


----------



## dstoffa

ansky212 said:


> Large signal fluctuations are usually a sign of multipath. Have you tried relocating your antenna to see if it makes a difference? I'm 10 miles from WTC and WWOR is rock solid from here.


Didn't need to relocate the antenna. Tonight (10/29) WWOR and its subs are coming in at 100% rock-solid for the first time that I can remember since the move.

Anyone else noticing an improvement in reception of RF25?


----------



## Useeme1234

dstoffa said:


> Didn't need to relocate the antenna. Tonight (10/29) WWOR and its subs are coming in at 100% rock-solid for the first time that I can remember since the move.
> 
> Anyone else noticing an improvement in reception of RF25?


Probably leaves falling off, I'm still having issues with wcbs2 & wnbc4


----------



## dstoffa

Useeme1234 said:


> Probably leaves falling off, I'm still having issues with wcbs2 & wnbc4



You could be right, but I had no issues with any other station outside of RF25, whether a station's stick was on 1WTC, ESB, or 4TS. The compass heading delta is less than 15 degrees for me... I will check the trees after work. If the cat comes back in the spring, then I'll know for sure...


Trees are still full of leaves.


----------



## HoundBaby

Just noticed a new channel 17.1 , France 24. Looks like it’s physical channel 13.


----------



## darkegg

HoundBaby said:


> Just noticed a new channel 17.1 , France 24. Looks like it’s physical channel 13.


46.1 is also France24 but at 480i. 17.1 is 1080i but it just looks like upscaled version of the 480i stream. The youtube stream looks much better. I hope they fix this soon because this is just waste of bandwidth.

I've attached TSReader dump for reference.



Code:


ch=auto:13 lock=8vsb ss=100 snq=100 seq=100 bps=19251200 pps=0
3: 13.1 WNET-HD
4: 13.2 KIDS
5: 46.1 WMBQ-CD
6: 17.1 WNDT-CD
tsid=0x07DB


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> 46.1 is also France24 but at 480i. 17.1 is 1080i but it just looks like upscaled version of the 480i stream. The youtube stream looks much better. I hope they fix this soon because this is just waste of bandwidth.
> 
> I've attached TSReader dump for reference.
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ch=auto:13 lock=8vsb ss=100 snq=100 seq=100 bps=19251200 pps=0
> 3: 13.1 WNET-HD
> 4: 13.2 KIDS
> 5: 46.1 WMBQ-CD
> 6: 17.1 WNDT-CD
> tsid=0x07DB


More detritus to diminish the quality of 13.1's signal!

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## HoundBaby

HoundBaby said:


> Just noticed a new channel 17.1 , France 24. Looks like it’s physical channel 13.


Looks like it’s WNDT-CD, owned by WNET..


----------



## darkegg

HoundBaby said:


> Just noticed a new channel 17.1 , France 24. Looks like it’s physical channel 13.


The new channel is actually MHz Worldview. You can see the schedule here: https://mhznetworks.com/schedule/ or https://www.thirteen.org/schedule/ They just show France24 from 6PM to 9PM.


----------



## Trip in VA

So, interesting note, WNET released this press release a few weeks back: https://allarts.wliw.org/pressroom/...adcast-channel-dedicated-to-arts-and-culture/

My guess, which I've reached out to their press contact for confirmation on, is that the 1080i stream on 17-1 will be used for this All Arts channel. 

- Trip


----------



## LIantenna585

Trip in VA said:


> So, interesting note, WNET released this press release a few weeks back: https://allarts.wliw.org/pressroom/...adcast-channel-dedicated-to-arts-and-culture/
> 
> My guess, which I've reached out to their press contact for confirmation on, is that the 1080i stream on 17-1 will be used for this All Arts channel.
> 
> - Trip


Could this be added to WLIW as well?


----------



## Trip in VA

It would be a complete waste of bandwidth since WNET already reaches all the areas WLIW reaches, so I would find it to be exceptionally unlikely.

- Trip


----------



## LIantenna585

Trip in VA said:


> It would be a complete waste of bandwidth since WNET already reaches all the areas WLIW reaches, so I would find it to be exceptionally unlikely.
> 
> - Trip


I live on Long Island and can get WLIW but not WNET. I think my antenna is optimized for UHF.


----------



## LIantenna585

So I just did a channel scan, and my TV added analog channel 15 to my channel list. There is no signal when I tune to the channel. Is this a low power station or just interference?


----------



## bobbino421

Can anyone recommend a good indoor antenna! I live in an apt rental in a private house in Queens so an outdoor antenna is not an option. I just dropped my fios tv service and kept internet. I have a small monoprice plastic flat antenna that I use but I would like something more reliable and have to get another one for a 2nd Tv. Thanks in advance.


----------



## EF9500

Is 13 ever gonna turn up power? Or are we stuck with low power now?


----------



## dstoffa

bobbino421 said:


> Can anyone recommend a good indoor antenna! I live in an apt rental in a private house in Queens so an outdoor antenna is not an option. I just dropped my fios tv service and kept internet. I have a small monoprice plastic flat antenna that I use but I would like something more reliable and have to get another one for a 2nd Tv. Thanks in advance.


Normally you'd be asked for a TV Fool report, but in reality, if you are in Queens, it's all about where you can place the antenna.

Do you have a window that opens / faces Manhattan? What floor are you on?

Needless to say, if you are ground floor or below, with no window facing west-ish to Manhattan, you will have a hard time picking up signals, regardless of the indoor antenna, as the building you live in (and what it's wrapped in - such as siding) is your enemy.


----------



## bobbino421

dstoffa said:


> bobbino421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good indoor antenna! I live in an apt rental in a private house in Queens so an outdoor antenna is not an option. I just dropped my fios tv service and kept internet. I have a small monoprice plastic flat antenna that I use but I would like something more reliable and have to get another one for a 2nd Tv. Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Normally you'd be asked for a TV Fool report, but in reality, if you are in Queens, it's all about where you can place the antenna.
> 
> Do you have a window that opens / faces Manhattan? What floor are you on?
> 
> Needless to say, if you are ground floor or below, with no window facing west-ish to Manhattan, you will have a hard time picking up signals, regardless of the indoor antenna, as the building you live in (and what it's wrapped in - such as siding) is your enemy.
Click to expand...

 My window faces west but im on a raised first floor, basement is a walk in! Houses across the street block though. I get a good signal but I don’t get every channel I want at once. WOR channel 9 gives me trouble in my living room and WPIX 11 in my bedroom which is on other side facing east.


----------



## speedlaw

EF9500 said:


> Is 13 ever gonna turn up power? Or are we stuck with low power now?


there was some discussion earlier in the thread about WNET getting a low antenna and waiting for some work to be done on other antennas first. They are also moving to 12 during the re shuffle, in a year or three. If I read the rabbit ears site correctly, channel 7 has 34 kw, and channel 13 has....4kw.

Seems like a huge difference in power...


----------



## Useeme1234

Yeah, abc got more power cos the closest rf7 is in albany,ny so there is less chance of cochannel interference, same case with phillys rf6 also abc affiliate btw.


----------



## dstoffa

bobbino421 said:


> My window faces west but im on a raised first floor, basement is a walk in! Houses across the street block though. I get a good signal but I don’t get every channel I want at once. WOR channel 9 gives me trouble in my living room and WPIX 11 in my bedroom which is on other side facing east.



WWOR (virtual) channel 9 is UHF (RF25). WPIX is both virtual and RF11, and is VHF. You need two different antennas (or a single antenna that is designed to receive both UHF and VHF-Hi). If you wish to view MeTV (WJLP), this programming is broadcast on RF3, which is in the VHF-Lo band, and requires yet another antenna; you might be close enough that it doesn't matter.


If you put / hang the antenna you currently have "out the window", can you receive all the channels you want to?


----------



## edmcguirk

I rarely watch WWOR but my DVR application's inability over many months to access the channel and grab the schedule was annoying me enough to finally troubleshoot the problem.

It turns out that, for me, the problem was not reception, it was my application (mythTV + HDhomerun). It was still looking at UHF channel 38 (many months outdated) instead of UHF channel 25 even though I had done a full re-scan several times. The solution was to delete the channel lineup completely and re-scan all the channels.

WWOR has a noticeably weaker signal strength but still near 100% signal quality. Now I can receive all the major NYC channels (2-13) with my inside-attic mounted amplified antenna in Wayne NJ.

(hope that info helps someone even though it is half a year late)


----------



## Useeme1234

edmcguirk said:


> I rarely watch WWOR but my DVR application's inability over many months to access the channel and grab the schedule was annoying me enough to finally troubleshoot the problem.
> 
> It turns out that, for me, the problem was not reception, it was my application (mythTV + HDhomerun). It was still looking at UHF channel 38 (many months outdated) instead of UHF channel 25 even though I had done a full re-scan several times. The solution was to delete the channel lineup completely and re-scan all the channels.
> 
> WWOR has a noticeably weaker signal strength but still near 100% signal quality. Now I can receive all the major NYC channels (2-13) with my inside-attic mounted amplified antenna in Wayne NJ.
> 
> (hope that info helps someone even though it is half a year late)


I believe wor has a booster channel near little falls, perhaps you can receive it.


----------



## LIantenna585

Has WNYW decreased their power? Here is my signal strength for ESB stations:

WNYW Strength: 40
WPXN Strength: 46
WXTV Strength: 64
WMBC Strength: 45


----------



## ansky212

I did a channel scan this afternoon and noticed channel 14-1 (WNDT) is up showing the All Arts network.


----------



## Blogeyed

bobbino421 said:


> Can anyone recommend a good indoor antenna! I live in an apt rental in a private house in Queens so an outdoor antenna is not an option. I just dropped my fios tv service and kept internet. I have a small monoprice plastic flat antenna that I use but I would like something more reliable and have to get another one for a 2nd Tv. Thanks in advance.


This has to be the most asked question on this forum, including from myself. Now thinking of the big difference in reception ATSC 3.0 will make for a lot of us, coming in the near future.


----------



## SnellKrell

bobbino421 said:


> Can anyone recommend a good indoor antenna! I live in an apt rental in a private house in Queens so an outdoor antenna is not an option. I just dropped my fios tv service and kept internet. I have a small monoprice plastic flat antenna that I use but I would like something more reliable and have to get another one for a 2nd Tv. Thanks in advance.


Location, location, location!

It's difficult to tell what's going to work for another person in a different location.

That being said, I took a recommendation from darkegg, here on the Forum, and bought this
Winegard FreeVision antenna it can be used either indoors and outdoors.

You can search the particulars on Winegard's website. I bought mine at Home Depot.

I use it indoors on a fairly deep window sill.

Works great for me, including VHF stations - even Channel 3 comes in loud and clear.

My avatar is a picture of the antenna.

Wish you luck.


----------



## Brian in CT

SnellKrell said:


> I use it indoors on a fairly deep window sill.


Bobbino421, the above quote may be important to your situation. If your rental building is made of concrete or cinderblock, you are going to have a hard time receiving VHF signals. If it has aluminum siding, that can make it tough for any TV signal. If any of this is true for your situation, putting an antenna by a west facing window is likely imperative (you being in Queens). Of course, you being so close to the Manhattan TV transmitters should make it an easier situation. In my neck of the woods, a rooftop (or attic) antenna is a must. Sorry it took awhile to respond to your question.


----------



## bobbino421

SnellKrell said:


> bobbino421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good indoor antenna! I live in an apt rental in a private house in Queens so an outdoor antenna is not an option. I just dropped my fios tv service and kept internet. I have a small monoprice plastic flat antenna that I use but I would like something more reliable and have to get another one for a 2nd Tv. Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Location, location, location!
> 
> It's difficult to tell what's going to work for another person in a different location.
> 
> That being said, I took a recommendation from darkegg, here on the Forum, and bought this
> Winegard FreeVision antenna it can be used either indoors and outdoors.
> 
> You can search the particulars on Winegard's website. I bought mine at Home Depot.
> 
> I use it indoors on a fairly deep window sill.
> 
> Works great for me, including VHF stations - even Channel 3 comes in loud and clear.
> 
> My avatar is a picture of the antenna.
> 
> Wish you luck.
Click to expand...

Thank you I’ll look into it!


----------



## bobbino421

Brian in CT said:


> SnellKrell said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use it indoors on a fairly deep window sill.
> 
> 
> 
> Bobbino421, the above quote may be important to your situation. If your rental building is made of concrete or cinderblock, you are going to have a hard time receiving VHF signals. If it has aluminum siding, that can make it tough for any TV signal. If any of this is true for your situation, putting an antenna by a west facing window is likely imperative (you being in Queens). Of course, you being so close to the Manhattan TV transmitters should make it an easier situation. In my neck of the woods, a rooftop (or attic) antenna is a must. Sorry it took awhile to respond to your question.
Click to expand...

Np! It’s an old house updated with vinyl siding. Right now I’m getting all the main broadcast channels with my flat plastic monoprice antenna. The bedroom is another issue. I don’t have an antenna in there now but when I did I was having a tough time getting a signal for ABC 7 and Pix 11 on a consistent basis. Just using an Amazon FTV for now. Bedroom is on the east side of house with window facing east.
Tv in there does not get a lot of use so it’s not a big deal if I can’t find something that will work consistently.


----------



## ansky212

It seems that WLIW is running at reduced power lately. I used to get them around 80% signal strength. Lately I noticed they are down to about 40% and I'm barely able to lock a signal.


----------



## HoundBaby

Blogeyed said:


> This has to be the most asked question on this forum, including from myself. Now thinking of the big difference in reception ATSC 3.0 will make for a lot of us, coming in the near future.


I’ve been using the Clearstream 2 Max for the last 6 months. I’m 27 miles west of NYC and I have great reception with this little antenna . I have it installed outside about 30 feet high, coupled with a Wingard LNA 200 pre amp. The only channel that it has a problem with at times is Channel 11, depending on the time of day and weather conditions. I’m sure if Channel 11 increased there transmission power there would not be an iissue, VHF channels 7, 13, and 3 have no issues at all. Also UHF the channels are received at full power here.


----------



## dstoffa

bobbino421 said:


> Np! It’s an old house updated with vinyl siding. Right now I’m getting all the main broadcast channels with my flat plastic monoprice antenna. The bedroom is another issue. I don’t have an antenna in there now but when I did I was having a tough time getting a signal for ABC 7 and Pix 11 on a consistent basis. Just using an Amazon FTV for now. Bedroom is on the east side of house with window facing east.
> Tv in there does not get a lot of use so it’s not a big deal if I can’t find something that will work consistently.



Something I've discovered quite recently is locast.org. They are a free digital repeater for OTA TV. They are in several markets, NY included.
You wrote that you've kept your internet subscription. Great. If you also have Roku's on your TV sets, you can download their streaming channel and watch the NYC locals for free.


----------



## Brian in CT

bobbino421 said:


> Np! It’s an old house updated with vinyl siding. Right now I’m getting all the main broadcast channels with my flat plastic monoprice antenna. The bedroom is another issue. I don’t have an antenna in there now but when I did I was having a tough time getting a signal for ABC 7 and Pix 11 on a consistent basis. Just using an Amazon FTV for now. Bedroom is on the east side of house with window facing east.


Nice that you are in a place without the worst signal absorbent materials. Unfortunately, those small flat plastic antennas don't do well with VHF signals. A pair of rabbit ear antennas would probably do better getting WABC-7 and WPIX-11, not to mention WJLP-3 and WNET-13. With a small VHF/UHF antenna similar to SnellKrell's, you should be in good shape for both of your televisions. The only other problem I could see is if you are surrounded by taller buildings, which can cause multipath. Good luck.


----------



## EF9500

Brian in CT said:


> Nice that you are in a place without the worst signal absorbent materials. Unfortunately, those small flat plastic antennas don't do well with VHF signals. A pair of rabbit ear antennas would probably do better getting WABC-7 and WPIX-11, not to mention WJLP-3 and WNET-13. With a small VHF/UHF antenna similar to SnellKrell's, you should be in good shape for both of your televisions. The only other problem I could see is if you are surrounded by taller buildings, which can cause multipath. Good luck.


Low power on wnet is not helping too. I used to get them in the high 80's, now i fluctuate between high 30's to high 40's with barely any picture.


----------



## seamus21514

Is it me or has the picture quality on WABC gotten much worse? I knew it was already bad with 2x 720p and 1 480i subchannels, but there's been very noticeable JPEG-like compression on static news graphics, even in scenes with little movement. Fine text disclaimers on ads have significant flickering as a result of the compression. 

I would have expected WNBC/WNJU to fare worse with the 2x 1080i and 2x 480i but I assume they have better encoders?


----------



## LenL

I think we are all seeing different issues.


I was having trouble with 11.1 and 7.1 the high VHF broadcasts but 13.1 was fine. Now they all are fine.


However CBS 2.1 is getting poor signal strength and quality and almost can't watch it. It used to be 100% signal quality and now all over the place. Signal strength used to be rock solid 60% and now under 60% and fluctuating!


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> I think we are all seeing different issues.
> 
> 
> I was having trouble with 11.1 and 7.1 the high VHF broadcasts but 13.1 was fine. Now they all are fine.
> 
> 
> However CBS 2.1 is getting poor signal strength and quality and almost can't watch it. It used to be 100% signal quality and now all over the place. Signal strength used to be rock solid 60% and now under 60% and fluctuating!


I have no problems with WCBS. WPIX and WABC are fine here too. WNET comes in fine for me when the weather is clear, but if it is foggy or raining the signal tends to drop and I get pixelation. WJLP is kind of random too. Most of the time it's fine but then sometimes (usually at night) I will get lower signal levels and pixelation.


----------



## LenL

Update:


Since I had 3 antennas sitting in my shed I decided to mount one of them and try to get better UHF reception than my existing CM4228 was giving me.


My 3 choices were my backup CM4228, A YAGI UHF only antenna, and a home made Grey Hoverman.


I have a lot of room on the mast about 6 feet off the ground. I picked the Grey Hoverman. I put it up and checked the results and now I get CBS 2.1 at 100% quality and about 70% signal strength. Looks like the other UHF channels are the same or better too.


Now I did not play with the orientation as it was very cold and windy and I left it as is for now. It does orient a little different from the CM4228. So I am thinking about actually climbing higher up on the mast when the weather is better and try to reorient the CM4228.


For now I am happy I can record and watch CBS Sunday Morning, 60 Minutes, Blue Bloods, Dr Chris Pet Vet and Lucky Dog! Yeah!


----------



## ansky212

Does anyone happen to know if WJLP made the move to One WTC? I noticed over the past week I have been getting much better reception than usual.


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> Does anyone happen to know if WJLP made the move to One WTC? I noticed over the past week I have been getting much better reception than usual.


I doubt it has moved. You can check the rabbitears live band scanner: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WJLP
The jump in power in October was due to a new antenna on the receiving end. Since then, not much has changed.


----------



## LIantenna585

Has WNYW moved to 1WTC? I’ve noticed a major increase in signal strength recently.


----------



## ansky212

LIantenna585 said:


> Has WNYW moved to 1WTC? I’ve noticed a major increase in signal strength recently.


I think they moved to WTC like 6 months ago.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> I think they moved to WTC like 6 months ago.


Yes, WNYW is transmitting from 1WTC.

The station is currently using the Lower UHF Antenna. The original plan and promise
was for WNYW to transmit from the Upper UHF Antenna, but once again, Durst couldn't
fulfill a station's technical needs, and Fox had to apply/and receive FCC approval for use 
of the Lower UHF section of the mast.

The current plan is for WNYW to move to the Upper UHF Antenna when Repack Phase 4
comes into effect. By 8/2/19, the station will then transmit on Channel 27.


----------



## ansky212

Has anyone tried using the Locast.org site recently? I noticed in the past week I can no longer view any channels and it says "Your location is being reported to us as outside of a Market that we serve". I'm in Essex County, NJ so this error doesn't make any sense. I checked the location of my IP address and it comes up correctly. I wonder if this is a technical glitch or if the site got shut down.


----------



## ansky212

Court TV coming to NYC in May:

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/court-tv-plans-to-relaunch-as-a-free-ota-tv-network/


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> Has anyone tried using the Locast.org site recently? I noticed in the past week I can no longer view any channels and it says "Your location is being reported to us as outside of a Market that we serve". I'm in Essex County, NJ so this error doesn't make any sense. I checked the location of my IP address and it comes up correctly. I wonder if this is a technical glitch or if the site got shut down.


Works fine for me. You should contact locast.


----------



## trailblazer

ansky212 said:


> Has anyone tried using the Locast.org site recently? I noticed in the past week I can no longer view any channels and it says "Your location is being reported to us as outside of a Market that we serve". I'm in Essex County, NJ so this error doesn't make any sense. I checked the location of my IP address and it comes up correctly. I wonder if this is a technical glitch or if the site got shut down.



Works fine in Central NJ.


----------



## dstoffa

ansky212 said:


> Has anyone tried using the Locast.org site recently? I noticed in the past week I can no longer view any channels and it says "Your location is being reported to us as outside of a Market that we serve". I'm in Essex County, NJ so this error doesn't make any sense. I checked the location of my IP address and it comes up correctly. I wonder if this is a technical glitch or if the site got shut down.



I observed the same problem. I contacted them via their website link. Your connection has timed out.


On my Roku, I needed to log out then log back in, per their instructions, provided below. I didn't need to take the latter measures.




> Thanks for reaching out. On your Roku device, I recommend that you logout of the Locast channel and then log back in. From the Locast programming guide press the up arrow key until it highlights "LiveTV Guide", then press the right arrow key until the word Logout is highlighted, then press OK. A pop up will appear, "Are you sure you want to Logout?" Press OK on Yes. Now you'll want to Press OK on the Locast channel and enter your email address and password, select LOG IN and press OK.
> 
> If that does not resolve the issue you're having, I suggest that you uninstall and reinstall the Locast.org channel. After logging in if you are still trouble, try resetting your Roku.
> 
> From the browser you're trying to access Locast.org on, I recommend logging out and back in to your account on Locast.org. Click the silhouette icon on the right and click "Logout," then over on the left click "Login". Once you've entered your email and password, click "Cities" at the top and select New York.
> 
> If this does not resolve the issue, you may need to clear the cache and cookies for your browser, then you'll need to allow Locast.org access to your location again.
> 
> If you are still unable to view your local programming via your Roku or PC, I suggest that you power cycle your modem as this will renew your public IP address. Be sure that location services are enabled for your browser and computer and that Locast.org has permission to access your geolocation. Hope this helps, please let me know if you require further assistance.
> 
> Hope this helps, please let me know if for some reason you are still unable to view your local programming so we can investigate further.


----------



## ansky212

Thanks for the replies. I logged out and logged back in on my web browser and now Locast is working. I should have just tried that from the start.


----------



## Jay Stone

dstoffa said:


> I observed the same problem. I contacted them via their website link. Your connection has timed out.
> 
> 
> On my Roku, I needed to log out then log back in, per their instructions, provided below. I didn't need to take the latter measures.
> 
> 
> [/FONT]




I didn’t even know I could use locast on my Roku. Is it an app?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dstoffa

Jay Stone said:


> I didn’t even know I could use locast on my Roku. Is it an app?


Yes. It's a streaming channel you can add to your Roku.


----------



## marlowja

WCBS has launched CBSN New York, a local spinoff of CBS News's online-only news channel, CBSN. Apparently it's streaming only (https://newyork.cbslocal.com/live/), which is a shame. As much as I dislike subchannels that waste bandwidth on sub-par programming, I think having a high quality local 24/7 news channel available OTA would be justifiable, even in 480i.


----------



## Aero 1

marlowja said:


> WCBS has launched CBSN New York, a local spinoff of CBS News's online-only news channel, CBSN. Apparently it's streaming only (https://newyork.cbslocal.com/live/), which is a shame. As much as I dislike subchannels that waste bandwidth on sub-par programming, I think having a high quality local 24/7 news channel available OTA would be justifiable, even in 480i.


they had one in 2011 called CBS New York Plus. No one watched it, they got rid of it. Its not justifiable because it doesnt fit the demo. face it, old people are not in the demo, its the young, and the young will watch it online, not OTA.


----------



## marlowja

Aero 1 said:


> they had one in 2011 called CBS New York Plus. No one watched it, they got rid of it. Its not justifiable because it doesnt fit the demo. face it, old people are not in the demo, its the young, and the young will watch it online, not OTA.



I would argue that cord-cutters skew younger, as a 20-something I don't know of a single peer who subscribes to cable, they all rely on OTA or streaming. Clearly they'll be able to stream CBSN New York, but that's something they would actively have to opt-in to. Having OTA carriage seems like a pretty straightforward way to make sure that people can stumble into the channel and develop as an audience, rather than limiting it to an app. 

NY1 has a massive audience, and I think there's room for a competitor. CBS NY+ was a loop of old programming and weather reports, CBSN New York has several hours of exclusive newscasts every day, so I don't think equating the two is exactly fair.


----------



## NYC

marlowja said:


> I would argue that cord-cutters skew younger, as a 20-something I don't know of a single peer who subscribes to cable, they all rely on OTA or streaming. Clearly they'll be able to stream CBSN New York, but that's something they would actively have to opt-in to. Having OTA carriage seems like a pretty straightforward way to make sure that people can stumble into the channel and develop as an audience, rather than limiting it to an app.
> 
> NY1 has a massive audience, and I think there's room for a competitor. CBS NY+ was a loop of old programming and weather reports, CBSN New York has several hours of exclusive newscasts every day, so I don't think equating the two is exactly fair.


I recall CBS NY+ and it was just a few minutes worth of news that repeated endlessly. CBSN is much more and deserves the exposure. As a cord cutter, I would welcome a subchannel for 24/7 local news. Alternatively, does anyone know if it will play on the Amazon Echo or Google Home versions that have a screen? Also, would the Charge and Comet networks play through either of these devices, as I do know that both of these networks stream their content? Thanks
By the way, I have noticed that CBSN does stream live via youtube whenever there is breaking news, I wonder if the New York version will do the same.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*WABC-TV 7.1 Audio*

Is anyone else experiencing very poor audio quality transmitting from WABC-TV on the main channel? The audio quality on this stream is scratchy and tinny. The audio qualities on the remaining two streams do not suffer from this defect. If you tune to the station now and turn up the volume louder than usual, this scratchiness is quite evident. I also experienced this issue about three weeks ago, so it cannot be isolated to the current programming. The problem also does not exist on any other channel.


----------



## ALP

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Is anyone else experiencing very poor audio quality transmitting from WABC-TV on the main channel? The audio quality on this stream is scratchy and tinny. The audio qualities on the remaining two streams do not suffer from this defect. If you tune to the station now and turn up the volume louder than usual, this scratchiness is quite evident. I also experienced this issue about three weeks ago, so it cannot be isolated to the current programming. The problem also does not exist on any other channel.



On ABC 7.1 we sometimes get buzzing in our TV speakers that we do not notice on any of the other X.1 channels. We do not watch any of the other channels beyond X.1.


----------



## ansky212

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Is anyone else experiencing very poor audio quality transmitting from WABC-TV on the main channel? The audio quality on this stream is scratchy and tinny. The audio qualities on the remaining two streams do not suffer from this defect. If you tune to the station now and turn up the volume louder than usual, this scratchiness is quite evident. I also experienced this issue about three weeks ago, so it cannot be isolated to the current programming. The problem also does not exist on any other channel.


I noticed this too. Sunday night the problem was worse than usual. I have noticed it during primetime shows for at least the past month or two. This morning I put on GMA and the audio seemed fine, so it's not a constant problem. Seems to be related to primetime.


----------



## dturturro

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Is anyone else experiencing very poor audio quality transmitting from WABC-TV on the main channel? The audio quality on this stream is scratchy and tinny. The audio qualities on the remaining two streams do not suffer from this defect. If you tune to the station now and turn up the volume louder than usual, this scratchiness is quite evident. I also experienced this issue about three weeks ago, so it cannot be isolated to the current programming. The problem also does not exist on any other channel.


I'm glad someone brought this up. I noticed this on "The Rookie" and I thought I may have blown a speaker. I haven't been watching any other ABC content recently and assumed it was just a music choice by the makers of the show when no other programs had the same issue.


----------



## ALP

dturturro said:


> I'm glad someone brought this up. I noticed this on "The Rookie" and I thought I may have blown a speaker. I haven't been watching any other ABC content recently and assumed it was just a music choice by the makers of the show when no other programs had the same issue.



Wow, My wife noticed this on the Rookie as well, she now refuses to watch it anymore. A blown speaker is exactly what it sounds like and we to do not find it on any other program. In general I am not happy with the audio on most channels (with the exception of PBS). I think they all use a lot of compression to try to win the loudness wars.


----------



## d3193

ALP said:


> Wow, My wife noticed this on the Rookie as well, she now refuses to watch it anymore. A blown speaker is exactly what it sounds like and we to do not find it on any other program. In general I am not happy with the audio on most channels (with the exception of PBS). I think they all use a lot of compression to try to win the loudness wars.


The audio compression (and other processing) on WABC local productions is very aggressive. This does not usually extend to network fare.


----------



## ansky212

For the past couple days I have noticed that I can easily pull in WLNY from my home in NJ. Normally I can only occasionally pull them in on summer nights, but now I'm getting them during the day. Did they make any changes to their signal or is this just a fluke?


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> For the past couple days I have noticed that I can easily pull in WLNY from my home in NJ. Normally I can only occasionally pull them in on summer nights, but now I'm getting them during the day. Did they make any changes to their signal or is this just a fluke?


No signal change. I believe the relative warmth of the Long Island Sound plus a fair weather pattern since Monday might have enhanced the signal enough for you to receive WLNY better.


----------



## NYC

WJLP appears to have dropped the religious channel it had on 33.5 and created a new channel on 33.15 with just color bars and no audio. On one of my sets, that channel appears as 3.12.


----------



## RickNY

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Is anyone else experiencing very poor audio quality transmitting from WABC-TV on the main channel? The audio quality on this stream is scratchy and tinny. The audio qualities on the remaining two streams do not suffer from this defect. If you tune to the station now and turn up the volume louder than usual, this scratchiness is quite evident. I also experienced this issue about three weeks ago, so it cannot be isolated to the current programming. The problem also does not exist on any other channel.


Yes. I hear it on Optimum as well.. It seems to be a problem with the rear surround channels when a 5.1 broadcast is on.. Below is a link to an MP3 I extracted from one of the recordings of A Million Little Things... Its just the Right surround channel during a 30 second segment.. I've also observed it during commercials and yesterday I captured another recording during GMA Day during the afternoon. When I first started hearing it, I thought I had a blown speaker -- but its in the source material.
https://www.indigopc.com/SurrR.mp3

It started about 3 weeks ago for us. And it sounds hideous when your surrounds are just a few feet from your head. I've found if I switch my receiver over to Pure Stereo, it helps -- but doesnt eliminate. At least it takes it away from the rears.


----------



## MeatChicken

RickNY said:


> Yes. I hear it on Optimum as well.. It seems to be a problem with the rear surround channels when a 5.1 broadcast is on.. Below is a link to an MP3 I extracted from one of the recordings of A Million Little Things... Its just the Right surround channel during a 30 second segment.. I've also observed it during commercials and yesterday I captured another recording during GMA Day during the afternoon. When I first started hearing it, I thought I had a blown speaker -- but its in the source material.
> https://www.indigopc.com/SurrR.mp3
> 
> It started about 3 weeks ago for us. And it sounds hideous when your surrounds are just a few feet from your head. I've found if I switch my receiver over to Pure Stereo, it helps -- but doesnt eliminate. At least it takes it away from the rears.


 I hear it on Fios also ...
Especially on "The Rookie" ..
I also thought my rear speakers were blown / buzzing ...
Is this just a local WABC problem, or a network feed type thing?


----------



## ejb1980

MeatChicken said:


> I hear it on Fios also ...
> Especially on "The Rookie" ..
> I also thought my rear speakers were blown / buzzing ...
> Is this just a local WABC problem, or a network feed type thing?


It sounds like a local problem. I have heard no problems with ABC in my surrounds, via WVNY, WMUR, or WCVB and have listened for issues after first seeing the issue on this thread regarding WABC.


----------



## marlowja

I just did a rescan and I see that there are 16:9 static color bars on what I presume to be WJLP. What’s odd is that the PSIP is 3-12, not 33-12. If I remember correctly, weren’t they barred from using PSIP 3 at the behest of WFSB?


----------



## NYC

marlowja said:


> I just did a rescan and I see that there are 16:9 static color bars on what I presume to be WJLP. What’s odd is that the PSIP is 3-12, not 33-12. If I remember correctly, weren’t they barred from using PSIP 3 at the behest of WFSB?


As I stated earlier, on one of my sets it appears as PSIP 3.12, although that should only be the RF. On another, it displays as 33.15 -- not as 33.12 as you stated, which is audio from WBBO.


----------



## bobbino421

NBC looked like crap last night! Had to move my flat antenna a few times just to get a decent picture. I wonder if the weather had anything to do with it. I don’t view NBC much but it’s usually crystal clear.


----------



## EF9500

bobbino421 said:


> NBC looked like crap last night! Had to move my flat antenna a few times just to get a decent picture. I wonder if the weather had anything to do with it. I don’t view NBC much but it’s usually crystal clear.


Is this a joke? This is not analog.


----------



## darkegg

marlowja said:


> I just did a rescan and I see that there are 16:9 static color bars on what I presume to be WJLP. What’s odd is that the PSIP is 3-12, not 33-12. If I remember correctly, weren’t they barred from using PSIP 3 at the behest of WFSB?


I think it's only showing up as 3-12 because the PSIP information is missing. HDHomeRun scan shows this (and I've verified with TSReader):


Code:


ch=auto:3 lock=8vsb ss=91 snq=56 seq=50 bps=13860864 pps=0
3: 33.1 MeTV
4: 33.2 Laff
5: 33.4 Escape
6: 33.3 Grit
7: 33.10 WJLP-WX
8: 33.11 Thunder
9: 33.12 B985
10: 33.13 TheBoss
11: 33.14 1410 AM
12: 0
tsid=0x211D


----------



## SnellKrell

Wonder if and when WCBS and WPXN will resume maximum authorized power????

Antenna work was to have been completed on the 1WTC mast by the end of last month.

With the power reductions, WCBS has been running at 64% of max, and WPXN at 60%.

Happy Holidays to all!

SnellKrell


----------



## themicah

*Antenna advice*

TLDR: I get everything but Channels 4 and 9 (and their subchannels) using my cheap flat antenna or my old rabbit ears, even though those used to come in fine. Tried a distribution amp to no effect. Should I try an attenuator next? A different antenna? Maybe the Clearstream that Wirecutter likes? I need an indoor antenna that's not too bulky.

Long version:

We're on the Lower East Side (zip 10002) with line of sight from our living room to the ESB and (if we press our faces to the window) WTC1. For several years we used a basic rabbit ears antenna (RCA ANT111E) with our TV's internal tuner and rarely had reception problems on any of the major channels (2,4,5,7,9,11,13) or plenty of other channels we never watched.

We've been out of our apartment for most of 2018 during a renovation where we rearranged things a bit. We now have a projector with an outboard tuner in the room where the TV previously lived, and moved the TV to another room. I bought the outboard tuner and a flat antenna before we moved out and tested them, and at that time they seemed to pull in all the channels fine, too.

Fast forward to December 2018. The renovation is almost done and I've been installing the electronics, and I can't seem to get channels 4 or 9. Everything else comes in clear using any combination of rabbit ears or flat antenna, TV tuner or outboard tuner. But it's like 4 and 9 (and their subchannels) don't exist.

I've tried adding a distribution amplifier to the mix since the antenna location (just a few feet from where the rabbit ears used to live, along the same wall of windows) is now separated from the TV and outboard tuner by a couple of long-ish coax runs and splitters. The amp didn't help at all. In fact, when I cranked up the amp's variable gain, other channels dropped out (presumably the signal got too noisy).

I find it particularly strange that 4 and 9 are the only channels I can't get, since they have much more in common (in terms of frequency and transmitter location) with other channels that we DO get than they have in common with each other.

Any thoughts on what we should try next? Is it possible that 4 and 9 are TOO strong and we should try an attenuator? I assume an FM trap won't help as neither 4 nor 9 is anywhere near FM frequencies. Should I try a different antenna? TheWirecutter seems to like the Clearstream Eclipse, which I think would work well aesthetically in our apartment. I don't have the ability to mount anything outside, and the best antenna location (with the line of sight to ESB and WTC) is in the middle of our living room so an indoor metal monstrosity isn't going to work, either. At the end of the day we could live without 9, but we'd really like to have 4 as there are occasional NBC programs we like to watch.

Thanks!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey themicah,


themicah said:


> TLDR: I get everything but Channels 4 and 9 (and their subchannels) using my cheap flat antenna or my old rabbit ears, even though those used to come in fine. Tried a distribution amp to no effect. Should I try an attenuator next? A different antenna? Maybe the Clearstream that Wirecutter likes? I need an indoor antenna that's not too bulky.
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on what we should try next? Is it possible that 4 and 9 are TOO strong and we should try an attenuator? I assume an FM trap won't help as neither 4 nor 9 is anywhere near FM frequencies. Should I try a different antenna? TheWirecutter seems to like the Clearstream Eclipse, which I think would work well aesthetically in our apartment. I don't have the ability to mount anything outside, and the best antenna location (with the line of sight to ESB and WTC) is in the middle of our living room so an indoor metal monstrosity isn't going to work, either. At the end of the day we could live without 9, but we'd really like to have 4 as there are occasional NBC programs we like to watch.
> 
> Thanks!


Have you tried a rescan? During the past year, WNBC New York ceased broadcasting on its unique RF channel and now exists as subchannels of WNJU Linden (RF channel 36) and WWOR-TV Secaucus transitioned to RF channel 25. If your tuner is pointing to their former RF channels, both are presently vacant.


----------



## Useeme1234

Themicah, it sounds more likely some interference, i live in queens i have an outdoor antenna
I have the antenna pointe halfway between esb, wtc, all channels come in great, but i noticed 
that nbc sometimes drops out. nbc is very flakely at best, dont think your signal is overloaded,
otherwise your other channels would not come either. what i would do is try another antenna, flat
Panel type antennas are crappy, specially on high vhf. you said you have rabbitears, give it a go.


----------



## themicah

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Have you tried a rescan? During the past year, WNBC New York ceased broadcasting on its unique RF channel and now exists as subchannels of WNJU Linden (RF channel 36) and WWOR-TV Secaucus transitioned to RF channel 25. If your tuner is pointing to their former RF channels, both are presently vacant.


You nailed it. I just rescanned on both tuners, and WNBC and WWOR are back. I had no idea that the digital channel numbers were nominal and weren't actually tied to specific RF channels. But that certainly explains why 4 and 9 seemed like they were nonexistent when I hooked the TV and tuner up again after 8 months--it's because they WERE nonexistent.

Now my $12 flat antenna, mounted on the wall near the window where it's almost invisible, is feeding both tuners all the majors in HD (and about 60 other channels that we'll probably never watch). Thank you!!!


----------



## themicah

As an addendum, I looked up when WNBC and WWOR moved, and it looks like WWOR moved about a month before we moved out and WNBC moved just a week or two before we moved out. Which explains why we didn't notice their disappearance before we moved out and only discovered they were missing when we returned and tried to hook everything back up again.

I wonder how many thousands of New Yorkers who use OTA TV have been living without WWOR and WNBC for the last 9 months not realizing that they just need to do a rescan....


----------



## Aero 1

themicah said:


> I wonder how many thousands of New Yorkers who use OTA TV have been living without WWOR and WNBC for the last 9 months not realizing that they just need to do a rescan....


they both ran spots and announcements for months about the move and what to do many times through out the day and during their newscasts, so probably not as many as you think.


----------



## themicah

The fact that we missed this entirely confirms my view that we don't watch nearly enough TV to justify paying for cable!


----------



## bobbino421

EF9500 said:


> bobbino421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> NBC looked like crap last night! Had to move my flat antenna a few times just to get a decent picture. I wonder if the weather had anything to do with it. I don’t view NBC much but it’s usually crystal clear.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a joke? This is not analog.
Click to expand...

No joke got a lot of pixelation and signal drop out. I have an indoor $5 monoprice antenna also so I’m sure that’s not top of the line either lol


----------



## bobbino421

I haven’t rescanned in a while maybe it’s time?


----------



## Brian in CT

themicah said:


> You nailed it. I just rescanned.


This (among other posts) makes me wonder why more TV makers don't include a "manual tuning" option like the LG brand does. With the manual tuning option, all you have to do is surf through the RF channels (2-51) and save the ones you want to receive. For example, when WWOR switched frequencies, I just deleted RF 38 and added RF 25. For someone like me who is receiving TV signals from multiple directions, it's indispensable.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> Wonder if and when WCBS and WPXN will resume maximum authorized power????
> 
> Antenna work was to have been completed on the 1WTC mast by the end of last month.
> 
> With the power reductions, WCBS has been running at 64% of max, and WPXN at 60%.
> 
> Happy Holidays to all!
> 
> SnellKrell



Ditto, I would also like to see them back to full power.


----------



## speedlaw

*channel 50*

The only station I have issues with is 11, (RF 11) but don't really care as there isn't much I watch on it. 

Channel 50, WNJN, is slightly off axis for my antenna, and Motorweek is broadcast, which isn't on WNET 13. Sometimes my Tivo gets it, other times not....depending on conditions....

Any idea what the transmitter situation is ? Are they moving to a WTC location eventually ? Motorweek is corny but there are a few tidbits in each episode....


----------



## SnellKrell

speedlaw said:


> The only station I have issues with is 11, (RF 11) but don't really care as there isn't much I watch on it.
> 
> Channel 50, WNJN, is slightly off axis for my antenna, and Motorweek is broadcast, which isn't on WNET 13. Sometimes my Tivo gets it, other times not....depending on conditions....
> 
> Any idea what the transmitter situation is ? Are they moving to a WTC location eventually ? Motorweek is corny but there are a few tidbits in each episode....


Little chance of WNJN making any changes - the state sold off its Montclair frequency and the station no longer 
transmits from its previous location.

WPIX continues to be up for sale. The current owner, Tribune has had no interest in moving to 1WTC. Who knows
what the next owner may want to do????

So, for the moment, both stations are staying put.


----------



## Digiti

ALP said:


> Wow, My wife noticed this on the Rookie as well, she now refuses to watch it anymore. A blown speaker is exactly what it sounds like and we to do not find it on any other program. In general I am not happy with the audio on most channels (with the exception of PBS). I think they all use a lot of compression to try to win the loudness wars.


I have noticed this as well on the Rookie and American Housewife which are unlistenable because of the distortion.I no longer watch these show because of this.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> Little chance of WNJN making any changes - the state sold off its Montclair frequency and the station no longer
> transmits from its previous location.
> 
> WPIX continues to be up for sale. The current owner, Tribune has had no interest in moving to 1WTC. Who knows
> what the next owner may want to do????
> 
> So, for the moment, both stations are staying put.



This is a bit off topic, however, WPIX is The CW network which I believe is a partnership between CBS and Warner Brothers. Is The CW still owned by CBS and WB? Any idea how much a network like The CW sells for?


----------



## mets18

Digiti said:


> I have noticed this as well on the Rookie and American Housewife which are unlistenable because of the distortion.I no longer watch these show because of this.


Wow, very noticeable on the left rear channel on the football game. How does no one at ABC notice this?


----------



## Digiti

mets18 said:


> Wow, very noticeable on the left rear channel on the football game. How does no one at ABC notice this?


The .mp3 file provided in post #19812 is exactly what I hear on ABC.


----------



## LIantenna585

All Arts is coming to WLIW 21.4 on January 28th. Right now they are running a demo reel of all the different content that will be showcased (see the attached image)


----------



## LIantenna585

Also, WMBC now has the audio of WWGB on 63.11 and WBTK audio on 63.12.


----------



## NYC

LIantenna585 said:


> All Arts is coming to WLIW 21.4 on January 28th. Right now they are running a demo reel of all the different content that will be showcased (see the attached image)


Any idea if All Arts will launch on WNDT and/or WMBQ? Will WorldView remain on one, or will another network launch? Thanks for any details!

Also, those two audio subchannels of WMBC on 63.11 and 63.12 have poor quality audio, but since neither are in English, makes no difference.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just came across a disturbing Waiver filed before the FCC on behalf of WCBS.

The background is that the station, which was authorized to have an ERP of 385kW
from 1WTC on Channel 33, had to reduce power down to 245kW to allow Durst to
work on mast installations.

This reduction was to have ended by the end of this past November.

Just before Christmas, on the Forum, I had wondered if both WCBS and WPXN had
come back to full power????

The new Waiver filed by WCBS, requests a 6 month extension to continue its operation
at the lower power.

Again, this was due to Durst's work on the mast!

I haven't seen any filing from any other station to continue transmission at reduced power.
I can only assume that if WCBS can't go back to full power, other stations share this problem.

The above brings up some questions -

First, the 6 month extension takes us well into the Testing period for Phase 4 stations to 
migrate to new frequencies. By August 2nd, WCBS is to move to Channel 36 putting out
548kW.

Will we ever see Channel 33 at full power?

Will WCBS on its new Channel 36 be able to use its authorized 548kW or will Durst continue
to be inept and force stations to run at reduced power???

The next questions have to do with Durst -

*How does this company continue to stay in the broadcast business???*

NBC's installation at 1WTC was to have a directional antenna on the Lower UHF Antenna.
Durst still hasn't fulfilled that! WNJU/WNBC transmit from the Upper Antenna using a
a non-directional pattern.

Fox had contracted for WNYW to use the Upper UHF Antenna. Durst reneged! The station
has been relegated to the Lower UHF section.

WCBS and WPXN had full expectations that once they moved to 1WTC that they would be
able to transmit at their FCC authorized power. Yet to be realized!

It has taken Durst to make the old Empire State facilities look like state-of-the-art!

Sign me - "Disgusted!"


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> Just came across a disturbing Waiver filed before the FCC on behalf of WCBS.
> 
> The background is that the station, which was authorized to have an ERP of 385kW
> from 1WTC on Channel 33, had to reduce power down to 245kW to allow Durst to
> work on mast installations.
> 
> This reduction was to have ended by the end of this past November.
> 
> Just before Christmas, on the Forum, I had wondered if both WCBS and WPXN had
> come back to full power????
> 
> The new Waiver filed by WCBS, requests a 6 month extension to continue its operation
> at the lower power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, this was due to Durst's work on the mast!
> 
> I haven't seen any filing from any other station to continue transmission at reduced power.
> I can only assume that if WCBS can't go back to full power, other stations share this problem.
> 
> The above brings up some questions -
> 
> First, the 6 month extension takes us well into the Testing period for Phase 4 stations to
> migrate to new frequencies. By August 2nd, WCBS is to move to Channel 36 putting out
> 548kW.
> 
> Will we ever see Channel 33 at full power?
> 
> Will WCBS on its new Channel 36 be able to use its authorized 548kW or will Durst continue
> to be inept and force stations to run at reduced power???
> 
> The next questions have to do with Durst -
> 
> *How does this company continue to stay in the broadcast business???*
> 
> NBC's installation at 1WTC was to have a directional antenna on the Lower UHF Antenna.
> Durst still hasn't fulfilled that! WNJU/WNBC transmit from the Upper Antenna using a
> a non-directional pattern.
> 
> Fox had contracted for WNYW to use the Upper UHF Antenna. Durst reneged! The station
> has been relegated to the Lower UHF section.
> 
> WCBS and WPXN had full expectations that once they moved to 1WTC that they would be
> able to transmit at their FCC authorized power. Yet to be realized!
> 
> It has taken Durst to make the old Empire State facilities look like state-of-the-art!
> 
> Sign me - "Disgusted!"





I have given up with trying to receive signals off WTC since I live in Central NJ between NY & Philly, I just directed my roof antenna to Philly and get rock solid signals except for ABC on channel 6 since I have a high VHF/UHF antenna. Since the move to WTC, I have issues with receiving WCBS, WNBC, WYNY continously without breakup. When they where on the ESB I had no such issues. Channels on the ESB like WABC, WPIX etc. I have no issues, just the ones on the WTC with the exeption of channel 9 which for some reason comes in clearly without any issues.


Too bad that all the stations on WTC cannot just move back to the ESB till Durst can straighten out the mess they caused for the stations as well as for those trying to receive the signals from the WTC tower.


----------



## LenL

I second your critique. Reception for me was better when they were at the ESB. Unfortunately there is NO ONE who can take up our case and be an advocate for us OTA viewers.


So far OTA is being killed in the NYC market.


----------



## EF9500

LenL said:


> So far OTA is being killed in the NYC market.


The BIGGEST market, and we get the worst treatment. What a joke. Big time $$$ going into pockets, and not the tech.


----------



## ansky212

It's all about location. I'm 10 miles due west of NYC and I have no problems with OTA reception using a small outdoor antenna. I can even pull in the more distant stations like WLNY and WLIW. I often get pixelation on WNET when it rains, but other than that I have no complaints.


----------



## MeatChicken

EF9500 said:


> The BIGGEST market, and we get the worst treatment. What a joke. Big time $$$ going into pockets, and not the tech.


..... Also, how about the fact that here, largest city in the USA, on the coast, has had their NOAA weather station frequency / alert system off the air for almost 2 years, with still no date yet to bring it back online??


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> It's all about location. I'm 10 miles due west of NYC and I have no problems with OTA reception using a small outdoor antenna.


Fine, but if trailblazer is in Jackson Township (Ocean County), he should be getting the Philadelphia and New York City stations equally strong with a good rooftop antenna. He is technically in the NYC DMA, and he says he gets channels 7, 9 and 11 fine. Hopefully, the WTC situation will be fixed by August.

As for me, I am getting good reception at close to 50 miles from the WTC. Then again, I am on a hill.


----------



## ansky212

Brian in CT said:


> Fine, but if trailblazer is in Jackson Township (Ocean County), he should be getting the Philadelphia and New York City stations equally strong with a good rooftop antenna. He is technically in the NYC DMA, and he says he gets channels 7, 9 and 11 fine. Hopefully, the WTC situation will be fixed by August.
> 
> As for me, I am getting good reception at close to 50 miles from the WTC. Then again, I am on a hill.


Jackson, NJ is a fringe area as far as OTA reception. There is no regulation that says OTA must cover the entire geographic area of a DMA. Hopefully if they are able to increase power it will help him out.


----------



## Useeme1234

Cable cos have ota on their back pocket, you know I`m right amigo.


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> Jackson, NJ is a fringe area as far as OTA reception. There is no regulation that says OTA must cover the entire geographic area of a DMA.


True on the second point, but trailblazer is only 40-45 miles from the WTC. With no terrain issues, he should be able to receive all the full power TV stations transmitting from there if they were allowed to transmit at full power. The Philadelphia stations he gets now are a little further away. Like I said before, hope the WTC situation gets fixed by August.


----------



## EF9500

Everyone with these issues, and being close is strange. I am 65 miles out, on LI. I get 2,4,5,7,9,11,25,31 with no breakups, all at about 80%signal. 13 though is at about 40, since the power got turned down. The move to WTC has actually helped me.


----------



## SnellKrell

The additional height afforded by 1WTC hinders those viewers closer to the transmission point.

Television signals travel on a straight line unlike AM radio which follows the curvature of the Earth.


----------



## LIantenna585

Sorry to bring up a different subject here, but is Light TV gone from WNYW? I rescanned last night and found that even with a strong signal from WNYW, there was no 5-4 subchannel. (Also, I think the PSIP on 5-2 changed from “Movies!” to “MOVIES!”)


----------



## ansky212

LIantenna585 said:


> Sorry to bring up a different subject here, but is Light TV gone from WNYW? I rescanned last night and found that even with a strong signal from WNYW, there was no 5-4 subchannel. (Also, I think the PSIP on 5-2 changed from “Movies!” to “MOVIES!”)


Something strange is going on. I also lost 9-3 (Buzzer) and 9-4 (Heroes & Icons). It happened right at midnight last night. When I tune to those channels I just get a blank screen and no audio.


----------



## Useeme1234

Ef9500 where exactly on long island are you residing , also whats your setup, I long island is kind of hilly on northern part, south is pretty much flat as pancake.


----------



## LIantenna585

Light TV is back on 5-4, but it doesn’t matter, since 5-2, 5-4, and 9-2 are all black screens. The main signal on 5-1 is up and running though. Is there something wrong with my TV?!

I don’t reliably receive WWOR so I don’t have any updates on Buzzr or H&I.


----------



## ansky212

LIantenna585 said:


> Light TV is back on 5-4, but it doesn’t matter, since 5-2, 5-4, and 9-2 are all black screens. The main signal on 5-1 is up and running though. Is there something wrong with my TV?!
> 
> I don’t reliably receive WWOR so I don’t have any updates on Buzzr or H&I.


Nothing wrong with your TV. I have the same issue. 5-2, 5-4, 9-3, and 9-4 are all black screens. Actually on 5-2 I'm seeing some weird pattern of boxes going across the screen. Must be some kind of technical issue.


----------



## EF9500

Useeme1234 said:


> Ef9500 where exactly on long island are you residing , also whats your setup, I long island is kind of hilly on northern part, south is pretty much flat as pancake.


Stony Brook. Using a clearstream 4 on roof for uhf, and a stellar labs vhf in attic for vhf. Using the cheapo rca amplifier, which actually works quite well.


----------



## NYC

Just noticed that H&I is now on 5.4. Movies!, Light and Buzzer are still missing from over the air. On FiOS, Buzzer and H&I are in the usual spots but Movies! is gone. Calls to WNYW not returned. A scan done this morning did not help. Any idea what is going on? 
Also noticed that WJLP has moved the test pattern from channel 3 to 33.20 and have labeled it Nuestra with a description of Testing.
Any news regarding the new Arts channel that (I think) was to launch on a WLIW subchannel today? Will it be on WNDT 14 at some point?


----------



## darkegg

NYC said:


> Any news regarding the new Arts channel that (I think) was to launch on a WLIW subchannel today? Will it be on WNDT 14 at some point?


WLIW is very pixelated for me unless I reorient my antenna, but it does looks like All Arts has launched on WLIW. All Arts however hasn't launched on WNDT-CD, which is still showing upscaled MHz Worldview.

Also, I've been picking up WXNY-DL on RF 32 for the past few days. There is nothing on it except GoodTV logo animation. Anyway, this is probably a short term thing given WLIW will be moving into RF 32 for the repack.


Code:


ch=auto:21 lock=none ss=51 snq=0 seq=0 bps=0 pps=0
3: 21.1 WLIW HD
4: 21.2 Create
5: 21.3 World
6: 21.4 AllArts
tsid=0x0867

ch=auto:32 lock=8vsb ss=58 snq=68 seq=100 bps=19636224 pps=0
1: 32.1 WXNY-LD
tsid=0x0001


----------



## LIantenna585

All Arts on 21-4 is up and running


----------



## NYC

Movies!, Buzzer and H&I are all back on their broadcast subchannels, though still off of FiOS as of an hour ago (replaced with a message that the provider is not sending programming). Light, on 5.4, is still dark, though for a while H&I was airing on that channel. WWOR SD 9.2 is dark as well.
Also, 14.1 is still airing Worldview, no sign yet of All Arts.


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> Also, 14.1 is still airing Worldview, no sign yet of All Arts.


Isn't WLIW owned by WNET? Since WLIW is carrying All Arts why would WNET carry it on another channel?


----------



## Trip in VA

I had it listed as coming soon on 14-1 on RabbitEars before it became known that it would appear on 21-4. (I've since corrected the listing.) But I'm still unclear why WNET finds it necessary to mirror MHz across two channels.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> I had it listed as coming soon on 14-1 on RabbitEars before it became known that it would appear on 21-4. (I've since corrected the listing.) But I'm still unclear why WNET finds it necessary to mirror MHz across two channels.
> 
> - Trip


Paint me clueless, but I can't figure out why WNET "acquired" WEBR (now WNDT) and WMBQ.

As far as I can tell, WNET didn't get those stations' frequencies, just their licenses to broadcast.

WNET transmits WNDT (14.1) and WMBQ (46.1) as subchannels, not as separate broadcast entities.

What am I missing?

What benefits has WNET gained by adding those stations?


----------



## MeatChicken

SnellKrell said:


> What am I missing?
> 
> What benefits has WNET gained by adding those stations?


----------



## SnellKrell

MeatChicken said:


> https://youtu.be/Ll3uipTO-4A


Please explain where's the financial gain for WNET?

Is the programming that WEBR and WMBQ had run an asset?

Frequencies have tremendous value and can be monetized, but what
has WNET gained?

WNET has the ability to add subchannels without having to takeover
the licences without controlling the frequencies.

Is a standalone license of that much value in today's and the future's
marketplace?????


----------



## MeatChicken

SnellKrell said:


> ".... but what
> has WNET gained?
> 
> WNET has the ability to add subchannels without having to takeover
> the licences without controlling the frequencies.
> 
> Is a standalone license of that much value in today's and the future's
> marketplace?????


 I guess licenses in the NYC market can be considered valuable, if WNET in the future decides to sell them, or if they decide to add commercial / paid content or advertisements there ... 
Also, since these licenses were just "donated" to WNET , it makes sense to keep the licenses alive by transmitting some sort of programming ...
I wonder if there's any regulations or pubilc funds penalties that prevent NET/NJN/LIW from adding types commercial content to their station's subchannels, .. if so, these licensed "stations" may be the loophole that may eventually give them a revenue stream they otherwise would not have ...


----------



## Trip in VA

SnellKrell said:


> Paint me clueless, but I can't figure out why WNET "acquired" WEBR (now WNDT) and WMBQ.
> 
> As far as I can tell, WNET didn't get those stations' frequencies, just their licenses to broadcast.
> 
> WNET transmits WNDT (14.1) and WMBQ (46.1) as subchannels, not as separate broadcast entities.
> 
> What am I missing?
> 
> What benefits has WNET gained by adding those stations?


It gives them the ability to air commercial programming on what is otherwise a non-commercial license. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the two licenses migrates to WLIW after the repack occurs.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> It gives them the ability to air commercial programming on what is otherwise a non-commercial license. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the two licenses migrates to WLIW after the repack occurs.
> 
> - Trip


Channel 13 in the NY Metro Area was originally licensed as "commercial."

Although WNET is a non-commercial station, is there any "grandfathering" 
that would allow commercial enterprises?


----------



## Trip in VA

The allotment they're sitting on is commercial, but the license is non-commercial. While they could convert the license back to commercial, it would then have a slew of additional regulatory things to worry about. There may also be implications for their PBS affiliation or for CPB grants or whatnot. I'm not really clear on the full range of potential legal issues.

- Trip


----------



## MeatChicken

SnellKrell said:


> Channel 13 in the NY Metro Area was originally licensed as "commercial."
> 
> Although WNET is a non-commercial station, is there any "grandfathering"
> that would allow commercial enterprises?


Wikipedia:

".. _On June 29, 1961, ETMA agreed to purchase WNTA-TV for $6.2 million.[16] About $2 million of that amount came from five of the six remaining commercial VHF stations (WPIX was the lone holdout), all of whom were pleased to see a competitor eliminated.[17] In addition, CBS later donated a facility in Manhattan to ETMA and NET for production uses. The FCC approved the transfer in October,* and converted channel 13's commercial license to non-commercial*..."_


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> The allotment they're sitting on is commercial, but the license is non-commercial. While they could convert the license back to commercial, it would then have a slew of additional regulatory things to worry about. There may also be implications for their PBS affiliation or for CPB grants or whatnot. I'm not really clear on the full range of potential legal issues.
> 
> - Trip


Thanks, as always!

There was a situation here in NY with Channel 31.

Originally, WUHF, the FCC's experimental transmission to test UHF reception in an urban area.

31 had originally been allocated as "commercial" which allowed the station, after Giuliani sold
the then WNYC-TV to Dow Jones and ITT for WBIS, to be a commercial entity.


----------



## Brian in CT

SnellKrell said:


> Please explain where's the financial gain for WNET?
> 
> Is the programming that WEBR and WMBQ had run an asset?
> 
> Frequencies have tremendous value and can be monetized, but what
> has WNET gained?
> 
> WNET has the ability to add subchannels without having to takeover
> the licences without controlling the frequencies.
> 
> Is a standalone license of that much value in today's and the future's
> marketplace?????


I think I have an answer. Now that these "TV stations" are running on a primary subchannel (14-1 & 46-1), WNET can use must carry rules to force NYC area cable companies to include them on their systems. If WNET put these stations on 13-3 or 13-4, cable companies could refuse to carry them. Cable companies must carry (if the TV station owners choose not to charge them) any LICENSED local OTA stations' primary subchannel. WNET probably bought the licenses of WEBR and WMBQ with this purpose in mind.


----------



## SnellKrell

Brian in CT said:


> I think I have an answer. Now that these "TV stations" are running on a primary subchannel (14-1 & 46-1), WNET can use must carry rules to force NYC area cable companies to include them on their systems. If WNET put these stations on 13-3 or 13-4, cable companies could refuse to carry them. Cable companies must carry (if the TV station owners choose not to charge them) any LICENSED local OTA stations' primary subchannel. WNET probably bought the licenses of WEBR and WMBQ with this purpose in mind.


Thanks, makes sense!


----------



## Trip in VA

Brian in CT said:


> I think I have an answer. Now that these "TV stations" are running on a primary subchannel (14-1 & 46-1), WNET can use must carry rules to force NYC area cable companies to include them on their systems. If WNET put these stations on 13-3 or 13-4, cable companies could refuse to carry them. Cable companies must carry (if the TV station owners choose not to charge them) any LICENSED local OTA stations' primary subchannel. WNET probably bought the licenses of WEBR and WMBQ with this purpose in mind.


1) The licenses were donated, not bought.

2) They're Class A licenses and do not have must-carry rights.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> 1) The licenses were donated, not bought.
> 
> 2) They're Class A licenses and do not have must-carry rights.
> 
> - Trip


----------



## NYC

ansky212 said:


> Isn't WLIW owned by WNET? Since WLIW is carrying All Arts why would WNET carry it on another channel?


It was stated earlier that All Arts could appear on 14.1. As 14.1 and 46.1 both carry Worldview, it seemed a sure bet that one channel would get alternate programming. As far as I know, All Arts is not on FiOS and possibly not on cable and since WLIW is difficult to tune in in New York City, it seemed perfectly logical to expect to see it on 14.
Are WLIW and WEDW still planning to move their antennas to the WTC? I would appreciate having both, as I used to be a loyal viewer of WVIA when it was available here.
Also, Light is still missing from 5.4, as is the SD version of WWOR on 9.2 -- any details on why WNYW and WWOR dropped their subchannels a few days ago?


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> Also, Light is still missing from 5.4, as is the SD version of WWOR on 9.2 -- any details on why WNYW and WWOR dropped their subchannels a few days ago?


I assume it was some sort of technical failure. I was watching Fox 5 (the main channel) on Sunday night and for about 10 minutes the picture blacked out.


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> Are WLIW and WEDW still planning to move their antennas to the WTC?


WEDW was never moving to WTC. They have a DTS app that was filed back in 2017 to transmit from the ESB, but that has been tied up with legal issues and, in my opinion, has very little chance of ever getting approved.


----------



## n2ubp

Speaking of reception, yes I live in Middletown, NY 10940 about 60 miles from NYC. ATSC reception was near perfect just before the original switch over from NTSC to ATSC when ATSC was all on UHF. I wish they left it alone at that point in time. Then again a friend a mile down the road has no problems receiving any NYC broadcasts as they are today. 



Steve
N2UBP


----------



## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> WEDW was never moving to WTC. They have a DTS app that was filed back in 2017 to transmit from the ESB, but that has been tied up with legal issues and, in my opinion, has very little chance of ever getting approved.


WEDW has a different opinion, of course. A recent Transition Plan Progress Report by WEDW contains the following in an attachment https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f916810e1fa01683428cee77398 



> The licensee has adopted an alternative plan to meet the August 2, 2019 deadline to vacate Channel 49 using a temporary facility at the existing site, application for which will be submitted when necessary. Purchase orders for the equipment required for the interim facility have been placed. Licensee anticipates that the DTS application will eventually be granted and implemented.


----------



## Brian in CT

Trip in VA said:


> 1) The licenses were donated, not bought.
> 
> 2) They're Class A licenses and do not have must-carry rights.
> 
> - Trip


1) Really? I hope they at least ended up getting a nice tax write off.

2) That I didn't know. I thought Class A low power TV stations had the same "rights" as full power stations.

Thanks for setting me straight, Trip.


----------



## Trip in VA

Brian in CT said:


> 1) Really? I hope they at least ended up getting a nice tax write off.
> 
> 2) That I didn't know. I thought Class A low power TV stations had the same "rights" as full power stations.
> 
> Thanks for setting me straight, Trip.


1) I assume that's why they did it. Not really much value in the channel sharing Class A license otherwise, as far as I can imagine.

2) The Class A license holds a place somewhere between the full-power and LPTV. It doesn't come with must-carry and is still limited to a smaller protected contour, but protected from displacement if a full-power station would otherwise bump it out of the way as an LPTV would be. In exchange, it has to follow many of the full-power station rules, such as E/I rules, that do not otherwise apply to LPTV stations.

You're welcome; always glad to inform when I can.

- Trip


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

NYC said:


> It was stated earlier that All Arts could appear on 14.1. As 14.1 and 46.1 both carry Worldview, it seemed a sure bet that one channel would get alternate programming. As far as I know, All Arts is not on FiOS and possibly not on cable and since WLIW is difficult to tune in in New York City, it seemed perfectly logical to expect to see it on 14.
> Are WLIW and WEDW still planning to move their antennas to the WTC? I would appreciate having both, as I used to be a loyal viewer of WVIA when it was available here.
> Also, Light is still missing from 5.4, as is the SD version of WWOR on 9.2 -- any details on why WNYW and WWOR dropped their subchannels a few days ago?


_WLIW All Arts_ is now being carried by Altice/Optimum over channel 144. This means Altice/Optimum now carries WLIW Garden City and every one of that channel's streams.

This is the New York market. Logic plays no role in the decisions broadcast licensees make.

A logical decision would be for ABC to fix their WABC-TV New York audio problem.

A logical decision would be for WNET to carry WNJB-TV New Brunswick over WNET Newark. Another logical decision would be for them to likewise carry WLIW, if only the main stream, also over WNET. Instead viewers have to depend on pay systems to carry what used to be free and on top of that WNET still expects financial donations. Highly unlikely for anyone to donate funds for a service they cannot benefit from, but as I said, logic plays no role in these here parts.


----------



## NYC

ansky212 said:


> I assume it was some sort of technical failure. I was watching Fox 5 (the main channel) on Sunday night and for about 10 minutes the picture blacked out.


Thanks for that info. I recall that Fox 5 had some technical problems a few months ago...

WNYW, the Fox O&O in New York City, has had a bumpy ride after an Internet outage rendered its control room and studios essentially useless — and had to rely on Fox News Channel for help.

WNYW, which is not based in the News Corp building, is located at 205 East 67th Street, about two miles from the mothership’s Avenue of the Americas headquarters.

Fox 5 New York didn’t air a 5 p.m. newscast Tuesday, Aug. 21, 2018 — instead airing taped programming.

The station’s 10 p.m. newscast was anchored by Fox News host Shepard Smith from the Fox News Deck as what he called a “special edition” of the newscast.

WNYW’s building is undergoing renovations, according to sources, though its not clear yet if that lead to the outage.


----------



## ansky212

logger-a said:


> WEDW has a different opinion, of course. A recent Transition Plan Progress Report by WEDW contains the following in an attachment https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f916810e1fa01683428cee77398


Not sure what this means. They speak of a "temporary" facility at an "existing" site. The DTS application was for them to transmit from Trumbull (existing) and the ESB. Why would they need a temporary facility built in Trumbull if they were going to use that site anyway as part of the DTS? The only other possibility is maybe they are referring to building out the Stamford location which was at one time going to be part of the DTS. Makes you wonder how all this will be completed by August if they haven't even submitted an application yet.


----------



## ansky212

Locast has become unwatchable lately. With the latest version of the Android app, they cut into your program every 5 minutes asking for a donation. To make matters worse, after the cut in, the program you were watching does not resume. So you then have to go back, manually resume the program, and then watch another ad before the program plays again.


----------



## LenL

Yes I noticed this too! With my reception being so bad I have been using LOCAST more and more until this started happening I guess a few days back!


----------



## dstoffa

Useeme1234 said:


> Cable cos have ota on their back pocket, you know I`m right amigo.



Are you saying that it is in the best interest of broadcasters to have poor OTA signals so that their viewers subscribe to a payTV service and collect re-transmission fees?


----------



## Useeme1234

Yep, the cable companies have so much control of the over the air transmission, would not
surprise me they have a lot of sway on decisions the fcc makes, hence they want to see ota 
fail.



,


----------



## LIantenna585

I just rescanned and got a nice surprise... WLNY has added Stadium on 55-3! My reception of WWOR/WRNN (48-2) out here on Long Island is spotty at best, so this is certainly a welcome addition. See attached image


----------



## LIantenna585

Also, Aliento Vision (a Hispanic Christian network) is now on WMBC 63-7, which used to be a blank signal except during the day on Saturdays, when it would play E/I programming.


----------



## Useeme1234

LIantenna585 said:


> I just rescanned and got a nice surprise... WLNY has added Stadium on 55-3! My reception of WWOR/WRNN (48-2) out here on Long Island is spotty at best, so this is certainly a welcome addition. See attached image


I remember a couple years back, wlny had the best picture quality 1080p, must of taken a 
a hit from the subs? Is hard to their signal to you need at least 200 ft elevation
to receive it well.


----------



## LenL

Useeme1234 said:


> I remember a couple years back, wlny had the best picture quality 1080p, must of taken a
> a hit from the subs? Is hard to their signal to you need at least 200 ft elevation
> to receive it well.



Did you really mean 1080i?


----------



## NYC

Speaking of WWOR/WRNN, it seems as if Arirang was dropped from 48.3 and replaced - at least for now - with a copy of WRNN on 48.1. Additionally, WJLP moved their test pattern to 33.5, labeled it "Future" and added the description "Nuestra test."
Also, 14.1 and 46.1 still air the same programming, sure would be nice if they used one of those channels to air NJTV or any of WLIW's channels as those stations are next to impossible to tune in in New York City.


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> I remember a couple years back, wlny had the best picture quality 1080p, must of taken a
> a hit from the subs? Is hard to their signal to you need at least 200 ft elevation
> to receive it well.


Are there any towns on Long Island that are anywhere near 200 ft elevation? I have only been to LI a couple times and I remember it being very flat. I live in NJ (10 miles due west of NYC) and I can pick up WLNY reasonably well with a small outdoor antenna. I'm close to 500 feet in elevation.


----------



## nyctveng

NYC said:


> Also, 14.1 and 46.1 still air the same programming, sure would be nice if they used one of those channels to air NJTV or any of WLIW's channels as those stations are next to impossible to tune in in New York City.


14.1 and 46.1 are only using the bandwidth of one channel. It is just mapped twice similar to how 4.1 and 4.3 WNBC have identical programming.

58.1 WNJB and 50.1 WNJN are also transmitted once (single stream) but mapped twice. Cable companies do it all the time as well for various reasons like having a local spanish station appear in the local channel grouping then again in the spanish channel grouping.


----------



## nyctveng

Useeme1234 said:


> Yep, the cable companies have so much control of the over the air transmission, would not
> surprise me they have a lot of sway on decisions the fcc makes, hence they want to see ota
> fail.
> 
> ,


Umm, NO!


----------



## Trip in VA

nyctveng said:


> 14.1 and 46.1 are only using the bandwidth of one channel. It is just mapped twice similar to how 4.1 and 4.3 WNBC have identical programming.



If they are, that is a change from a month ago, when 14.1 and 46.1 were definitely being sent separately. https://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/ny-nyc/18795-0_0.htm Further, 46-1 is (was?) SD, while 14-1 is (was?) HD. Can't do that using the same video/audio stream.



- Trip


----------



## darkegg

Trip in VA said:


> If they are, that is a change from a month ago, when 14.1 and 46.1 were definitely being sent separately. https://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/ny-nyc/18795-0_0.htm Further, 46-1 is (was?) SD, while 14-1 is (was?) HD. Can't do that using the same video/audio stream.


14.1 and 46.1 are still separate streams. 46.1 is 480i and 14.1 is 1080i.


----------



## NYC

nyctveng said:


> 14.1 and 46.1 are only using the bandwidth of one channel. It is just mapped twice similar to how 4.1 and 4.3 WNBC have identical programming.


So then, if they are just duplicated, why does 14.1 appear in HD while 46.1 is SD?

Also, I assume WNBC is duplicating their signal for the benefit of anyone that might not have rescanned. Why would WNET launch two new channels from the same city with the same programming?


----------



## tomx2

Hi.

This is my First Post.

I live in New York City. 4th floor/8 floor Hi-Rise building on the upper West side (90's).
Just recently switch from using an old Prism analog TV to a new HD 32” Sharp T.V. For current service, I connect my cable receiver using HDMI cable to TV.

I also have a Android Streaming Box I use occasionally to stream free TV shows from the 80's and 90's.
Looking to cut the cord on my cable box and get OTA local TV channels.
Mainly interested in local News channels. For Entertainment, I will continue to stream with my Android Shield Box. Could subscribe to a paid streaming service, but just want to explore what OTA channels are available to me.
*
My Question is what would you members recommend for a indoor OTH HD antenna given my living environment (Hi-Rise apartment)?*

Right now doing a channel scan with no antenna I get no TV channels.
Willing to spend: $40.00 or under.

Thanks
TC.


----------



## LenL

Tomx2


Find a store that allows returns and buy something that works for your furnishings. If you were able to use what are called rabbit ear antennas you might give that a try first. If your TV is close to a window you might try the flat antennas that can be placed on an outside wall or window.


Your situation will dictate what works for you. You never mentioned some very important info such as do you have a location for the antenna that faces towards the ESB and WTC?


----------



## dstoffa

ansky212 said:


> Are there any towns on Long Island that are anywhere near 200 ft elevation? I have only been to LI a couple times and I remember it being very flat. I live in NJ (10 miles due west of NYC) and I can pick up WLNY reasonably well with a small outdoor antenna. I'm close to 500 feet in elevation.


I surmise that the majority of OTA viewers on Long Island have their antennas pointed towards New York City. That's a problem for picking up WLNY, whose stick would be "behind" their antenna.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Are there any towns on Long Island that are anywhere near 200 ft elevation? I have only been to LI a couple times and I remember it being very flat. I live in NJ (10 miles due west of NYC) and I can pick up WLNY reasonably well with a small outdoor antenna. I'm close to 500 feet in elevation.


WLIW's antenna is 254' Above Ground Level - and the station will be moving transmission to 1WTC.


WLNY's antenna is 620' Above Ground Level.


----------



## MeatChicken

tomx2 said:


> Hi.
> 
> _This is my First Post.
> 
> I live in New York City. 4th floor/8 floor Hi-Rise building on the upper West side (90's).
> Just recently switch from using an old Prism analog TV to a new HD 32” Sharp T.V. For current service, I connect my cable receiver using HDMI cable to TV.
> 
> I also have a Android Streaming Box I use occasionally to stream free TV shows from the 80's and 90's.
> Looking to cut the cord on my cable box and get OTA local TV channels.
> Mainly interested in local News channels. For Entertainment, I will continue to stream with my Android Shield Box. Could subscribe to a paid streaming service, but just want to explore what OTA channels are available to me.
> *
> My Question is what would you members recommend for a indoor OTH HD antenna given my living environment (Hi-Rise apartment)?*_
> 
> Right now doing a channel scan with no antenna I get no TV channels.
> Willing to spend: $40.00 or under.
> 
> Thanks
> TC.


 I agree with LenL , Either go to a local BestBuy type store, or order on Amazon, something within your budget that is returnable ... Hook it up to the TV, try to get it near a window and/or as high as possible and do a scan ...
For local news, you should be able to get all or at least some of of the Channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 & 33 (2.1, 4.1, 5.1 etc ..) "longer" rabbit ears will generally help channels 3, 7, 11, 13 & 33 ... vs more compact antennas..


----------



## SnellKrell

tomx2 said:


> Hi.
> 
> This is my First Post.
> 
> I live in New York City. 4th floor/8 floor Hi-Rise building on the upper West side (90's).
> Just recently switch from using an old Prism analog TV to a new HD 32” Sharp T.V. For current service, I connect my cable receiver using HDMI cable to TV.
> 
> I also have a Android Streaming Box I use occasionally to stream free TV shows from the 80's and 90's.
> Looking to cut the cord on my cable box and get OTA local TV channels.
> Mainly interested in local News channels. For Entertainment, I will continue to stream with my Android Shield Box. Could subscribe to a paid streaming service, but just want to explore what OTA channels are available to me.
> *
> My Question is what would you members recommend for a indoor OTH HD antenna given my living environment (Hi-Rise apartment)?*
> 
> Right now doing a channel scan with no antenna I get no TV channels.
> Willing to spend: $40.00 or under.
> 
> Thanks
> TC.


If you're going to buy rabbit ears, make sure that it also has the ability to receive UHF channels -
not all do.

While some VHF rabbit ear antennas will be able to receive some UHF channels, it is still best
to get an antenna that is specifically designed to also receive UHf.

Here, in the NY Metro Area, CBS, NBC, Fox, Ion and the major Spanish language stations
all broadcast on the UHF band.

Hope this helps.


----------



## tomx2

Thanks all for the quick reply.

I'll take your advice, and look for some long rabbit ears this weekend at Best Buy.
Must receive UHF channels.

TV about 12ft from window. Don't have much wiggle room be creative with the antenna on window sil. Maybe putting it on a high stand is a option.
Will look for antenna having a long cord or buy a coax male/female cable extension to reach the window.

In terms of ESB, WTC distance.
ESB is Southwest from window approx 5 miles from my apartment.
WTC is Southwest. About 7 miles.

Will report back after buying & testing TV with antenna.

TC.


----------



## SnellKrell

tomx2 said:


> Thanks all for the quick reply.
> 
> I'll take your advice, and look for some long rabbit ears this weekend at Best Buy.
> Must receive UHF channels.
> 
> TV about 12ft from window. Don't have much wiggle room be creative with the antenna on window sil. Maybe putting it on a high stand is a option.
> Will look for antenna having a long cord or buy a coax male/female cable extension to reach the window.
> 
> In terms of ESB, WTC distance.
> ESB is Southwest from window approx 5 miles from my apartment.
> WTC is Southwest. About 7 miles.
> 
> Will report back after buying & testing TV with antenna.
> 
> TC.


I bought this one at Home Depot - around $35.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Winegard-Freevision-Outdoor-HDTV-Antenna-FVHD30H/203972856

Works beautifully for me on deep window sill - the antenna is my Avatar.

Was used by another Forum member with success.

Check out dimensions on the Home Depot or the Winegard website.

Highly recommended - at least in my location.


----------



## nyctveng

darkegg said:


> 14.1 and 46.1 are still separate streams. 46.1 is 480i and 14.1 is 1080i.


You're right. I stand corrected.


----------



## Brian in CT

tomx2 said:


> Thanks all for the quick reply.
> 
> I'll take your advice, and look for some long rabbit ears this weekend at Best Buy.
> Must receive UHF channels.
> 
> TV about 12ft from window. Don't have much wiggle room be creative with the antenna on window sil. Maybe putting it on a high stand is a option.
> Will look for antenna having a long cord or buy a coax male/female cable extension to reach the window.
> 
> In terms of ESB, WTC distance.
> ESB is Southwest from window approx 5 miles from my apartment.
> WTC is Southwest. About 7 miles.
> 
> Will report back after buying & testing TV with antenna.
> 
> TC.


Best case scenario is that your window faces to the southwest toward the transmitters with no large obstruction in the way (like a huge building across the street in your LOS). If that is the case, a small antenna similar to SnellKrell's should do the trick.


----------



## oprig

SnellKrell said:


> I bought this one at Home Depot - around $35.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Winegard-Freevision-Outdoor-HDTV-Antenna-FVHD30H/203972856
> 
> Works beautifully for me on deep window sill - the antenna is my Avatar.
> 
> Was used by another Forum member with success.
> 
> Check out dimensions on the Home Depot or the Winegard website.
> 
> Highly recommended - at least in my location.


I too have that model and can pickup (UWS near 72nd & CPW, 5th floor south facing, no line of sight to transmitters) 2, 4, 5, 7, 9 and 11 easily (plus the Spanish language channels). Only 13 is missing since they changed their transmitter location or reduced power (I forget which) within the last couple of months.

I previously had the HD Frequency Cable Cutter Indoor/Outdoor HD Digital TV Antenna (CC-17) which worked perfectly at my location until the move to WTC transmitters.


----------



## MozzyMoz

I guess one of the admins at rabbitears is also a member of this board, so this might be of interest...

I just relocated my antenna and I noticed that WEDW is broadcasting CPTV 49.1 and 49.3 in both SD (480i), 43.1 (720p) and 43.2, and added WTXX Azteca America in Spanish on 34.1 (720p) and 34.2 / 34.3 (infomercials). The change most likely happened in December.


----------



## LIantenna585

MozzyMoz said:


> I guess one of the admins at rabbitears is also a member of this board, so this might be of interest...
> 
> I just relocated my antenna and I noticed that WEDW is broadcasting CPTV 49.1 and 49.3 in both SD (480i), 43.1 (720p) and 43.2, and added WTXX Azteca America in Spanish on 34.1 (720p) and 34.2 / 34.3 (infomercials). The change most likely happened in December.


That change happened around the end of October. I posted about it on the SatelliteGuys forums and Trip responded, here is the link:

https://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/since-when-is-wtxx-sharing-with-wedw-wzme.378964/


----------



## MozzyMoz

Thanks for the heads-up. I guess it is so cumbersome that not even Trip has clear info about the WEDW signal right now.



LIantenna585 said:


> That change happened around the end of October. I posted about it on the SatelliteGuys forums and Trip responded,


----------



## Trip in VA

It keeps changing, and I really want to get some hard data on it (TSReader) before doing an update, but I haven't been able to nail it down yet. (And I've been busy outside of RabbitEars so I haven't been able to spend too much time chasing it down, either...)



- Trip


----------



## LIantenna585

Trip in VA said:


> It keeps changing, and I really want to get some hard data on it (TSReader) before doing an update, but I haven't been able to nail it down yet. (And I've been busy outside of RabbitEars so I haven't been able to spend too much time chasing it down, either...)
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip


I emailed you the TSReader dump for WEDW (I can't attach .htm files on AVS Forum). Let me know if you need data for any other Long Island/NYC stations, I'd be happy to help!


----------



## Trip in VA

Thanks! Made some updates. 

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Has anyone used Locast lately? It now seems that you are required to make a donation to be able to watch anything. If that's the case then I don't think they can use the term "donation" any longer. More like a subscription fee now. Back to my Slingbox I guess...


----------



## Jay Stone

ansky212 said:


> Has anyone used Locast lately? It now seems that you are required to make a donation to be able to watch anything. If that's the case then I don't think they can use the term "donation" any longer. More like a subscription fee now. Back to my Slingbox I guess...




They insert a commercial when you tune a channel and again after watching a while


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MeatChicken

ansky212 said:


> Has anyone used Locast lately? It now seems that you are required to make a donation to be able to watch anything. If that's the case then I don't think they can use the term "donation" any longer. More like a subscription fee now. Back to my Slingbox I guess...


 The last few weeks I have not been able to tune to a channel on my Roku thru Locast ( 2 diff rokus, 2 different locations), ... I get the guide, but if I try to select a channel, It flashes the circular "loading" icon up for just a billionth of a second, & then reverts back to sitting on the guide ....


----------



## Rudmeister

Guys I am at a loss. I live in Port Reading NJ which is 16 miles from NYC but I cannot get WABC signal OTA. I get all others but that. The antenna is 33 feet above ground. I have tried and amplified indoor and also an outdoor antenna pointed exactly where the Antenna app is directing me to. Here is a link to my TV Fool report:
*http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=90388338b66822*
Oddly I am getting 41 channels with indoor and 31 with the outdoor.
All I really want are CBS, NBC, Fox, and ABC and then I can cut my $270/month cable bill.


Here is a link to the outdoor antenna:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSCCJ9Y/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


And here is a link to the indoor


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076BKPFDK/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*
*


----------



## Aero 1

Rudmeister said:


> Guys I am at a loss. I live in Port Reading NJ which is 16 miles from NYC but I cannot get WABC signal OTA. I get all others but that. The antenna is 33 feet above ground. I have tried and amplified indoor and also an outdoor antenna pointed exactly where the Antenna app is directing me to. Here is a link to my TV Fool report:
> *http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=90388338b66822*
> Oddly I am getting 41 channels with indoor and 31 with the outdoor.
> All I really want are CBS, NBC, Fox, and ABC and then I can cut my $270/month cable bill.
> 
> 
> Here is a link to the outdoor antenna:
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSCCJ9Y/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> And here is a link to the indoor
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076BKPFDK/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> *
> *


ill be blunt in the interest of saving time, those two antennas are crap. the first one is garbage and the second one is worst. return them and get your money back and start with an antennas direct 2v or 4v.


----------



## ansky212

Rudmeister said:


> Guys I am at a loss. I live in Port Reading NJ which is 16 miles from NYC but I cannot get WABC signal OTA. I get all others but that.




I have had very good luck with this antenna from 10 miles outside NYC:

https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Compact-...81&s=gateway&sprefix=rca+tv+an,aps,199&sr=8-3

I'm pulling in 68 channels (mounted outdoors about 15 feet off the ground).


----------



## Rudmeister

I understand they are cheap but why would I get all channels except ABC on both antennas? They must be working for me to get the channels I do.


----------



## Aero 1

Rudmeister said:


> I understand they are cheap but why would I get all channels except ABC on both antennas? They must be working for me to get the channels I do.


It’s not that they are cheap, it’s that they are crap. Those crappy antennas are not tuned for VHF. ABC is a hi vhf channel.


----------



## Brian in CT

Rudmeister said:


> I understand they are cheap but why would I get all channels except ABC on both antennas? They must be working for me to get the channels I do.


Let me be less blunt. The antennas you have are good with UHF signals at your distance from the transmitter sites. The problem would be with VHF reception. Are you receiving WPIX (RF 11) and WNET (RF 13)? If so, then they are coming in just over the threshold to decode. WABC (RF 7) would be just under that threshold. If not, then that should tell you how bad your antennas are receiving the VHF band. I assume you are not getting WJLP (RF 3), which is on the VHF-Lo band. If you were, that would be a scratch of the head.

Flat panel antennas are notorious for being bad with VHF signals, so stay away from those. Check out ansky212 and SnellKrell's antennas posted earlier in this thread. These antennas, and others similar to them, should do the trick from where you are. I would trust names like Winegard and ChannelMaster. I'm sure other posters could name others.

By the way, the TVFool database is three years out of date. Some TV stations are missing, too. Keep that in mind when you use it in the future.


----------



## Rudmeister

Thanks for the input. I went out and bought this and now I get all channels:


ClearStream 2MAX® UHF/VHF Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna with 20" Mast


----------



## Stryker412

Hi all, can anyone recommend an installer for an outdoor antenna? I helped my brother-in-law do his installation 10 years ago but since then I've developed a medical issue that precludes me from doing the install myself. I looked on Amazon but it seems to be a crapshoot with the reviews. I'm about 60 miles from NYC and Antennaweb suggested the following: DB8e combined with the Clearstream 5, our Juice preamp, mounted outdoors as high as you possibly can.


----------



## MeatChicken

Stryker412 said:


> Hi all, can anyone recommend an installer for an outdoor antenna? I helped my brother-in-law do his installation 10 years ago but since then I've developed a medical issue that precludes me from doing the install myself. I looked on Amazon but it seems to be a crapshoot with the reviews. .,.


 No one specific, however as a suggestion, you might want to try the "local Handyman" type ads in your local area ..
If you already have the antenna, cable and the mount, it's usually a piece of cake for them to install to a wall/chimney/roof, if you say something like, " I just need you to bolt /strap this up over there, pointing that way, run that ground wire, & run the cable in through that window, I'll take it from there ..." they're usually insured, and less expensive than the "antenna installer company" who will come out with 4 guys and an e$$timate pad ...


----------



## ansky212

Stryker412 said:


> Hi all, can anyone recommend an installer for an outdoor antenna? I helped my brother-in-law do his installation 10 years ago but since then I've developed a medical issue that precludes me from doing the install myself. I looked on Amazon but it seems to be a crapshoot with the reviews. I'm about 60 miles from NYC and Antennaweb suggested the following: DB8e combined with the Clearstream 5, our Juice preamp, mounted outdoors as high as you possibly can.


You can try this: https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/sli...ou-an-antenna-install-it-starting-at-just-99/

I called them a few months ago to get more information. Basically they sell and install 5 different models of antennas. The drawback is that they determine which antenna they think will work best for you. They won't install an antenna you already have.


----------



## SemiChemE

Stryker412 said:


> Hi all, can anyone recommend an installer for an outdoor antenna? I helped my brother-in-law do his installation 10 years ago but since then I've developed a medical issue that precludes me from doing the install myself. I looked on Amazon but it seems to be a crapshoot with the reviews. I'm about 60 miles from NYC and Antennaweb suggested the following: DB8e combined with the Clearstream 5, our Juice preamp, mounted outdoors as high as you possibly can.



I suspect you will be disappointed with the Clearstream 5. It sounds like it might be a decent VHF antenna for it's size, but small VHF antennas are traditionally very poor. Since size doesn't seem to be your primary concern, there are better options. The DB8e is an excellent UHF antenna, but is quite large and expensive. You'd probably be better off with one of the Channel Master antennas, which give VHF and UHF in a single package:


CM-3016 (This does great for me as an attic mount about 25 miles out)
CM-3018
CM-3020


The choice between these really depends on your budget and your exact situation. If all the target stations are in the same direction, the CM-3020 will be your best bet. However, it is very directional, so you may miss out on some weaker stations coming from other directions. The CM-3016 will do a better job with off-direction stations, but has less gain overall. If aimed properly, my CM-3016 is able to pick up WVER (VHF 9) from the neighboring market 62 miles away (1Edge). In this configuration, it still receives about 3/4 of the local stations (25 miles away) off the back of the antenna. 



Note that at 60 miles the CM-3016 will probably work, but just barely. For me, WVER gets disrupted pretty easily with any sort of bad weather. Of course, my antenna is in an attic and my house is surrounded by trees, so you may do a little better. I'm sure the CM-3020 would work great and probably wouldn't even need a pre-amp, just bear in mind the directional constraints.



Finally, Winegard offers some great antennas as well. On paper the HD 8200U will beat the CM-3020, especially for VHF-Lo stations. It's huge and expensive. Winegard used to have a bunch of smaller products, but they seem to have been discontinued.


Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


----------



## Hdb91xg

SemiChemE said:


> I suspect you will be disappointed with the Clearstream 5. It sounds like it might be a decent VHF antenna for it's size, but small VHF antennas are traditionally very poor. Since size doesn't seem to be your primary concern, there are better options. The DB8e is an excellent UHF antenna, but is quite large and expensive. You'd probably be better off with one of the Channel Master antennas, which give VHF and UHF in a single package:
> 
> 
> CM-3016 (This does great for me as an attic mount about 25 miles out)
> CM-3018
> CM-3020
> 
> 
> The choice between these really depends on your budget and your exact situation. If all the target stations are in the same direction, the CM-3020 will be your best bet. However, it is very directional, so you may miss out on some weaker stations coming from other directions. The CM-3016 will do a better job with off-direction stations, but has less gain overall. If aimed properly, my CM-3016 is able to pick up WVER (VHF 9) from the neighboring market 62 miles away (1Edge). In this configuration, it still receives about 3/4 of the local stations (25 miles away) off the back of the antenna.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that at 60 miles the CM-3016 will probably work, but just barely. For me, WVER gets disrupted pretty easily with any sort of bad weather. Of course, my antenna is in an attic and my house is surrounded by trees, so you may do a little better. I'm sure the CM-3020 would work great and probably wouldn't even need a pre-amp, just bear in mind the directional constraints.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, Winegard offers some great antennas as well. On paper the HD 8200U will beat the CM-3020, especially for VHF-Lo stations. It's huge and expensive. Winegard used to have a bunch of smaller products, but they seem to have been discontinued.
> 
> 
> Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


Yes the Winegrud 8200U big yes if you're going too see low power vhf BROADCASTING station in your area I suggest it good luck and have a good day!


----------



## NYC

WJLP has made a change to 33.5, titled as Nuestra and described as Testing, to include a still image indicating that Court TV launches in May.


----------



## ansky212

I found some updated information pertaining to the WEDW move. It looks like the FCC has ruled in favor of WEDW and has granted a COL change to Stamford. However it's not really clear from this document if WEDW will actually broadcast from Stamford or if the DTS application will be approved.

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-19-264A1.docx


----------



## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> I found some updated information pertaining to the WEDW move. It looks like the FCC has ruled in favor of WEDW and has granted a COL change to Stamford. However it's not really clear from this document if WEDW will actually broadcast from Stamford or if the DTS application will be approved.
> 
> https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-19-264A1.docx


Good wishes to Stamford, the third largest city in Connecticut, for becoming the community of license of a broadcast TV station.


----------



## Brian in CT

logger-a said:


> Good wishes to Stamford, the third largest city in Connecticut, for becoming the community of license of a broadcast TV station.


Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of Bridgeport, Connecticut's most populous city, losing both of their TV stations in quick succession. This is all due to the desire of WZME's owners to get their OTA signal into NYC.


----------



## ansky212

Brian in CT said:


> Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of Bridgeport, Connecticut's most populous city, losing both of their TV stations in quick succession. This is all due to the desire of WZME's owners to get their OTA signal into NYC.


Bridgeport wouldn't really be losing anything. If the DTS gets approved the Trumbull transmitter would remain on the air in conjunction with the second transmitter at the ESB. If they decide to move the transmission facilities to Stamford that would still put a solid OTA signal into Bridgeport.


----------



## logger-a

Brian in CT said:


> Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of Bridgeport, Connecticut's most populous city, losing both of their TV stations in quick succession. This is all due to the desire of WZME's owners to get their OTA signal into NYC.


According to the document that ansky212 provided a link to, "We also reiterate that our grant of the proposal will not deprive Bridgeport of its sole broadcast television service because Bridgeport will continue to be served by station WZME."


----------



## Brian in CT

logger-a said:


> According to the document that ansky212 provided a link to, "We also reiterate that our grant of the proposal will not deprive Bridgeport of its sole broadcast television service because Bridgeport will continue to be served by station WZME."


So WZME will keep its CoL as Bridgeport while WEDW CoL will be changed to Stamford? That will work.


----------



## ansky212

Court TV will debut on May 8th at 9am on WJLP 33.5. They have been airing a splash screen for the past week.


----------



## ansky212

Brian in CT said:


> So WZME will keep its CoL as Bridgeport while WEDW CoL will be changed to Stamford? That will work.


I don't know why you're so hung up on this. WZME airs no local programming whatsoever, so whether their COL is Stamford or Bridgeport makes no difference.


----------



## SnellKrell

WPXN has filed a "Request for Special Temporary Authority" to reduce its power
from 100kW down to 70kW!

The filing states that all UHF stations located on the 1WTC mast will have to 
operate at reduced power until the Repack's Phase 4 transition is completed
by August 2nd.

Wonderful! 

As I've mentioned before, somehow the Empire State Building was able to
make major changes on its mast during the middle of the night. Stations
would reduce power during that time and then in the morning, back to full
power.

Why go I have gnawing feeling that those wonderful people from Durst are
causing this because it's more expensive to have crews work in the middle
of the night?

UGH!


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> I don't know why you're so hung up on this. WZME airs no local programming whatsoever, so whether their COL is Stamford or Bridgeport makes no difference.


Other than civic pride, you are correct. CoL meant much more before deregulation.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> The filing states that all UHF stations located on the 1WTC mast will have to
> operate at reduced power until the Repack's Phase 4 transition is completed
> by August 2nd.


Does anyone have a list of channels that are moving this summer? Is WLIW moving to WTC or is that next year?


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Does anyone have a list of channels that are moving this summer? Is WLIW moving to WTC or is that next year?


https://www.rabbitears.info/

Has everything you ever wanted to know about OTA broadcasting.

WLIW is scheduled to move to 1WTC by August 2nd of this year, part of Phase 4.

The only station in the market which will be changing frequencies later is WNET.

This station is part of Phase 9 - the change to Channel 12 will take place by May 1, 2020.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> https://www.rabbitears.info/
> 
> Has everything you ever wanted to know about OTA broadcasting.
> 
> WLIW is scheduled to move to 1WTC by August 2nd of this year, part of Phase 4.
> 
> The only station in the market which will be changing frequencies later is WNET.
> 
> This station is part of Phase 9 - the change to Channel 12 will take place by May 1, 2020.


Yes I'm very familiar with that website. For some reason I thought WNYW was moving to a different channel assignment this year.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Yes I'm very familiar with that website. For some reason I thought WNYW was moving to a different channel assignment this year.


Under RabbitEars "Digital TV Market Listings" it shows that WNYW will move
to Channel 27. 

It's all clearly shown there.


----------



## mets18

SnellKrell said:


> https://www.rabbitears.info/
> 
> Has everything you ever wanted to know about OTA broadcasting.
> 
> WLIW is scheduled to move to 1WTC by August 2nd of this year, part of Phase 4.
> 
> The only station in the market which will be changing frequencies later is WNET.
> 
> This station is part of Phase 9 - the change to Channel 12 will take place by May 1, 2020.


When this is done the only station that I care about that I won't be able to get is WLNY although now that they won't have ACC football and basketball anymore I'm not sure how much I will care going forward. I'm surprised that CBS hasn't put WLNY on a subchannel of WCBS.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Under RabbitEars "Digital TV Market Listings" it shows that WNYW will move
> to Channel 27.
> 
> It's all clearly shown there.


Ok. I was confused because your previous post said that WNET is the only channel changing this year.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Ok. I was confused because your previous post said that WNET is the only channel changing this year.


No, WNET is the only channel that will change *laterthan Phase 4, by August 2, 2019.*


----------



## Brian in CT

mets18 said:


> I'm surprised that CBS hasn't put WLNY on a subchannel of WCBS.


And vice-versa. I miss WCBS's Long Island repeater (same site as WLNY) for times when WCBS & WFSB cancel each other out in my neck of the woods.


----------



## myork

*Reception Issues since January 2019*

Hi,


Any suggestions as to why I can no longer view any 33.xx channels (physical channel 3)? My disabled mother likes to watch 33.1 (MeTV), but I have been unable to tune any stations 33.xx since January 2019. The MeTV website cited that the solar flare activity season (usually ~ Feb to end of March?) was the cause, but I still cannot tune these stations. I am located in Northern Bergen county NJ. 



My equipment is:
Channel Master 2V antenna (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RH5GZI/) on a 5 foot mast about 35 feet high.
All RG6 cable
1 PCT-MA2-4PN 4 port distribution amplifier (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EKCGT8/)
1 ViewTV AT-263 ATSC Digital TV Converter Box (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F5QK562/) connected to an old Westinghouse 42 inch 1080p LCD TV Monitor (no built-in tuners)
1 Sony KDL32W600D 32-Inch HD Smart TV (using built-in tuner)
1 Samsung PF51F8500 51 inch Smart Hub Plasma TV (using built-in tuner)


I receive channels 7, 11, and 13 crisp and clean, and 33.xx along with all of those channels, except 13 are broadcast from the same area in Manhattan, where my antenna is generally pointing (186 degrees).


I have had no issues for 3 years, and then all of a sudden this happens. Might I need an LTE filter? Dont know if any major cell towers have been added, and I dont want to start just throwing $ and hoping it sticks.


Please Help.


----------



## Trip in VA

Your antenna is not low-VHF capable. You will need to replace it with a low-VHF capable antenna in order to receive WJLP.


- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Interesting that the Live Bandscan tuner in Richmond Hill (Queens)
began having S/N problems with this station in January, and then in
February, no reception. This was after the location's antenna was 
changed which vastly improved Channel 3's reception.

In my home, the East 90s in Manhattan, there have been no problems 
and/or changes in my receiving the station.


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Your antenna is not low-VHF capable. You will need to replace it with a low-VHF capable antenna in order to receive WJLP.
> 
> 
> - Trip


He said he has had no issues for 3 years and then all of a sudden there are issues. I doubt it's a problem with his antenna.

I have no problem with WJLP from Essex County, NJ aside from some general pixelation likely due to signal quality.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> He said he has had no issues for 3 years and then all of a sudden there are issues. I doubt it's a problem with his antenna.


If you use scotch tape to hold a chandelier to your ceiling and someone gets snagged on it and pulls it down, that doesn't change the fact that you were using the wrong tool for the job from the beginning. Had it been properly secured in the first place, the issue wouldn't have happened.

So here, even if the loss of reception wasn't strictly caused by the antenna, which we've not actually established since it's entirely possible that a connection corroded, or part of the antenna was damaged, etc., using the wrong antenna just makes it more likely that issues will present themselves, especially on low-VHF which is notorious for horrendous reception problems.

- Trip


----------



## MeatChicken

myork said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Any suggestions as to why I can no longer view any 33.xx channels (physical channel 3)? My disabled mother likes to watch 33.1 (MeTV), but I have been unable to tune any stations 33.xx since January 2019. The MeTV website cited that the solar flare activity season (usually ~ Feb to end of March?) was the cause, but I still cannot tune these stations. I am located in Northern Bergen county NJ.
> 
> 
> 
> My equipment is:
> Channel Master 2V antenna (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RH5GZI/) on a 5 foot mast about 35 feet high.
> All RG6 cable
> 1 PCT-MA2-4PN 4 port distribution amplifier (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EKCGT8/)
> 1 ViewTV AT-263 ATSC Digital TV Converter Box (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F5QK562/) connected to an old Westinghouse 42 inch 1080p LCD TV Monitor (no built-in tuners)
> 1 Sony KDL32W600D 32-Inch HD Smart TV (using built-in tuner)
> 1 Samsung PF51F8500 51 inch Smart Hub Plasma TV (using built-in tuner)
> 
> 
> I receive channels 7, 11, and 13 crisp and clean, and 33.xx along with all of those channels, except 13 are broadcast from the same area in Manhattan, where my antenna is generally pointing (186 degrees).
> 
> 
> I have had no issues for 3 years, and then all of a sudden this happens. Might I need an LTE filter? Dont know if any major cell towers have been added, and I dont want to start just throwing $ and hoping it sticks.
> 
> 
> Please Help.


What sort of signal strength /quality were you getting Pre-January?
If it was clearly watchable but very low strength (25%) , then a very minor change by JLP could have pushed it over the edge ... an LTE filter would probably not help, more likley to help UHF signals than VHF low .. ( a "High Pass" filter , _if actually needed_, would be a better fit for RF 2-5 interference)..
I also noticed a recent dropout of WJLP also, in Southwestern Nassau, in a place with a VHF-Hi/UHF attic antenna that used to get it fairly clearly but with low sig strength....

***** Does anyone know when WJLP is actually moving to 1WTC? Is it happening concurrently as part of the "By Aug 3 Repack" .. or some other time?


----------



## HoundBaby

myork said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> Any suggestions as to why I can no longer view any 33.xx channels (physical channel 3)? My disabled mother likes to watch 33.1 (MeTV), but I have been unable to tune any stations 33.xx since January 2019. The MeTV website cited that the solar flare activity season (usually ~ Feb to end of March?) was the cause, but I still cannot tune these stations. I am located in Northern Bergen county NJ.
> 
> 
> 
> My equipment is:
> Channel Master 2V antenna (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RH5GZI/) on a 5 foot mast about 35 feet high.
> All RG6 cable
> 1 PCT-MA2-4PN 4 port distribution amplifier (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EKCGT8/)
> 1 ViewTV AT-263 ATSC Digital TV Converter Box (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F5QK562/) connected to an old Westinghouse 42 inch 1080p LCD TV Monitor (no built-in tuners)
> 1 Sony KDL32W600D 32-Inch HD Smart TV (using built-in tuner)
> 1 Samsung PF51F8500 51 inch Smart Hub Plasma TV (using built-in tuner)
> 
> 
> I receive channels 7, 11, and 13 crisp and clean, and 33.xx along with all of those channels, except 13 are broadcast from the same area in Manhattan, where my antenna is generally pointing (186 degrees).
> 
> 
> I have had no issues for 3 years, and then all of a sudden this happens. Might I need an LTE filter? Dont know if any major cell towers have been added, and I dont want to start just throwing $ and hoping it sticks.
> 
> 
> Please Help.


I’m using a Antennas Direct clean stream 2 max , 27 miles west of NYC with no problem receiving 33.1 + . The only VFH channel I have issues with is 11.1 from late morning to late evening . The antenna I’m using is rated for high vhf but the 33.1 + stations normally come in fine. Figure that 33 is transmitting from 4 Times Square on low vhf and 11 from the Empire State Building, high vhf and at times I do not receive any signal at all on this station. The answer is just a larger VHF antenna with greater gain.


----------



## speedlaw

Trip in VA said:


> Your antenna is not low-VHF capable. You will need to replace it with a low-VHF capable antenna in order to receive WJLP.
> 
> 
> - Trip


Beat me to it. I had a RS-VU120 which dated from the pre transition days, and it had the huge elements needed for channel 2-4. I got RF 3 from NYC pretty well, but when it came down, bent from birds, believe it or not, I replaced it with a CM4228, which is OK 7-13 but blind to channel 3.

Short answer, you'll need a big antenna with long elements for that kind of VHF - Lo


----------



## ansky212

speedlaw said:


> Short answer, you'll need a big antenna with long elements for that kind of VHF - Lo


That is not necessarily true. I live in NJ and I have no trouble picking up WPLJ with this small antenna: 

https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Compact-...s=rca+antenna&qid=1557311830&s=gateway&sr=8-3

A "big" antenna is only needed if the signal is very weak at this location. He is located in Bergen County, NJ so the signal should be pretty strong at his location.


----------



## speedlaw

ansky212 said:


> That is not necessarily true. I live in NJ and I have no trouble picking up WPLJ with this small antenna:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Compact-...s=rca+antenna&qid=1557311830&s=gateway&sr=8-3
> 
> A "big" antenna is only needed if the signal is very weak at this location. He is located in Bergen County, NJ so the signal should be pretty strong at his location.


Respectfully disagree. Whatever works, works, but WPLJ is an FM radio signal, on what TV folks would call VHF High, which is much easier to pick up than a video signal...the frequency of RF 3 is 60 mhz, PLJ is 95.5. The size of the element needed has to do with the wavelength...and the wavelength is a fact of physics. To get the antenna element to resonate on the desired frequency requires it be the correct length, be that a half inch antenna in your smartphone, or an 85 foot wire for shortwave radio signals. I don't have the math here now, but a 60 mhz antenna isn't the same as a 95.5 mhz antenna...if either works on the other it's just luck or very, very strong signals.

RF3 is a low power broadcaster, the station exists as an attempt to get on cable systems as "channel 3", which they didn't succeed in, as discussed at length elsewhere...you're gonna need old school rabbit ears, with the long antennas pulled all the way out, or better, a roof antenna. 

Radio waves can be funny-and VHF Lo travels differently than VHF high, or UHF, which is why it should have not been used post transition......


----------



## HoundBaby

speedlaw said:


> Respectfully disagree. Whatever works, works, but WPLJ is an FM radio signal, on what TV folks would call VHF High, which is much easier to pick up than a video signal...the frequency of RF 3 is 60 mhz, PLJ is 95.5. The size of the element needed has to do with the wavelength...and the wavelength is a fact of physics. To get the antenna element to resonate on the desired frequency requires it be the correct length, be that a half inch antenna in your smartphone, or an 85 foot wire for shortwave radio signals. I don't have the math here now, but a 60 mhz antenna isn't the same as a 95.5 mhz antenna...if either works on the other it's just luck or very, very strong signals.
> 
> RF3 is a low power broadcaster, the station exists as an attempt to get on cable systems as "channel 3", which they didn't succeed in, as discussed at length elsewhere...you're gonna need old school rabbit ears, with the long antennas pulled all the way out, or better, a roof antenna.
> 
> Radio waves can be funny-and VHF Lo travels differently than VHF high, or UHF, which is why it should have not been used post transition......


As i posted before I have a Antennas Direct clean steam 2 max with the basic single dipole for vhf high .I have no problem picking up 33.1 + on low vhf. When I tune to 11.1 high vhf it’s like is does not exist at this hour at 1pm. But I can pickup 11+earlier in the morning . I have a clear stream 5 vhf antenna Disconnected in my attic. When I a chance I’ll move to to roof and combine it with to clean stream 2 max and see what happens.


----------



## MeatChicken

speedlaw said:


> Respectfully disagree. Whatever works, works, bu*t WPLJ is an FM radio signal, on what TV folks would call VHF High, which is much easier to pick up than a video signal...the frequency of RF 3 is 60 mhz, PLJ is 95.5. * The size of the element needed has to do with the wavelength...and the wavelength is a fact of physics. .


 I'm going to ASSume the original poster was referring to WJLP RF3 , & mistakenly typed WPLJ ....

Speaking of WPLJ .... They are gone.. Joining 92.7 WLIR as Iconic NY FM Stations that dissapeared...
Frequency sold ( to a christian group), , 95.5 WPLJ signed on the air in 1971, May 31 2019 will be their final broadcast......


----------



## HoundBaby

MeatChicken said:


> I'm going to ASSume the original poster was referring to WJLP RF3 , & mistakenly typed WPLJ ....
> 
> Speaking of WPLJ .... They are gone.. Joining 92.7 WLIR as Iconic NY FM Stations that dissapeared...
> Frequency sold ( to a christian group), , 95.5 WPLJ signed on the air in 1971, May 31 2019 will be their final broadcast......


Before WPLJ, 95.5 was WABC FM , one of the first FM Progressive rock stations along with WNEW 102.7 back in the late 60s in NYC.


----------



## SnellKrell

HoundBaby said:


> Before WPLJ, 95.5 was WABC FM , one of the first FM Progressive rock stations along with WNEW 102.7 back in the late 60s in NYC.


Continuing the off-topic thread - WPLJ = White Port with Lemon Juice, a doo *** song, originally by the Four Deuces.

That's how the station got it's call sign!


----------



## Useeme1234

I remember 99x also ktu disco92


----------



## sranger3

WLIR can heard on WLIR.fm via iheart or tune or there website. Wktu is still in the air at 103.5 or 104.3.


Sent from my BNTV460 using Tapatalk


----------



## dstoffa

MeatChicken said:


> Speaking of WPLJ .... They are gone.. Joining 92.7 WLIR as Iconic NY FM Stations that dissapeared...
> Frequency sold ( to a christian group), , 95.5 WPLJ signed on the air in 1971, May 31 2019 will be their final broadcast......



Hopefully they will play "My Sweetheart" by Focus as their last song...


----------



## Aero 1

WJLP just added a new channel, 33.6 News NJ. its running a feed from NewsNet that seems to be nothing about NJ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewsNet

http://yournewsnet.com/


----------



## NYC

Aero 1 said:


> WJLP just added a new channel, 33.6 News NJ. its running a feed from NewsNet that seems to be nothing about NJ.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewsNet
> 
> http://yournewsnet.com/


NewsNet does have slots for local inserts at :24 and :54 past the hour, if not used for local news by WJLP, there is a segment called Around America. NewsNet also has a brief local break at about :14 and :44 past the hour. 
The staff is miniscule and the thought of going there for breaking news probably will leave many disappointed. WJLP however is affiliated with a local newspaper in NJ, and they do assemble decent newsbreaks that air a few times each weekday. Have not tuned in yet to see what they are doing on 33.6.


----------



## wfgarnett3

*got UHF OTA NYC channels 65 / 120 miles away in Bensalem, PA (next to Philadelphia)*

FYI - As I posted in the other HDTV thread early Sunday morning I was able to get clearly WLNY-55 with my new Mohu Curve 50 indoor amplified antenna (with the amplifier not attached).

FCC.gov shows the antenna is almost 120 miles away in Long Island.

In the past with AntennasDirect ClearStream 2MAX antenna indoors I have picked up other NYC channels (like WWOR, WNYW) before at night (roughly 65 miles away (i.e. One World Trade)).

William


----------



## Useeme1234

- As I posted in the other HDTV thread early Sunday morning I was able to get clearly WLNY-55 with my new Mohu Curve 50 indoor amplified antenna (with the amplifier not attached).

Most likely weather inversion, ei tropospheric reception,I recvd wtnh abc affiliate from new haven the other night, won't last long though.


----------



## KEVINL71

Channel 8 of New Haven transmits on VHF channel 10. Their transmitter is on Madmere Mountain in Hamden, CT. You should have also seen WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven. They'll show as "59-1", but are really a subchannel of channel 8.


----------



## Useeme1234

KEVINL71 said:


> Channel 8 of New Haven transmits on VHF channel 10. Their transmitter is on Madmere Mountain in Hamden, CT. You should have also seen WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven. They'll show as "59-1", but are really a subchannel of channel 8.


I use ad 91xg roof mounted 30' above street level, I get most nyc stations including vhf channels
I also have a winegard high vhf antenna that i never had to mount it.


----------



## Spankey

Quick question. Having trouble getting WNYW at the moment. I'm in Robbinsville, NJ about 45 miles out and no trouble with CBS, NBC and WOR. I didn't expect to get ABC but that's really a non-issue. Would the antenna not be pointed at WTC for Fox?


----------



## SnellKrell

Spankey said:


> Quick question. Having trouble getting WNYW at the moment. I'm in Robbinsville, NJ about 45 miles out and no trouble with CBS, NBC and WOR. I didn't expect to get ABC but that's really a non-issue. Would the antenna not be pointed at WTC for Fox?


WNYW does transmit from 1WTC.

The station's transmission is from the mast's Lower UHF Antenna. WNYW had originally contracted with
"those wonderful people from Durst" to use the Upper UHF Antenna, where WWOR, WCBS, WNBC and
other stations are located. Durst could not provide enough power for WNYW to use the Upper, so the
station was relegated to the Lower facility, albeit with greater power to compensate for the lower 
elevation.

The current plan is for WNYW to finally move to the Upper Antenna come the Repack's Phase 4 -
August 2nd.

WNBC/WNJU have been given permission by the FCC to alternate using the Upper and the Lower
Antennas - this will allow for Durst to do work on the mast.

It's quite possible that WNBC/WNJU may choose to remain on the Lower Antenna, as that was
NBCUniversal's original intent.


----------



## Spankey

SnellKrell said:


> WNYW does transmit from 1WTC.
> 
> The station's transmission is from the mast's Lower UHF Antenna. WNYW had originally contracted with
> "those wonderful people from Durst" to use the Upper UHF Antenna, where WWOR, WCBS, WNBC and
> other stations are located. Durst could not provide enough power for WNYW to use the Upper, so the
> station was relegated to the Lower facility, albeit with greater power to compensate for the lower
> elevation.
> 
> The current plan is for WNYW to finally move to the Upper Antenna come the Repack's Phase 4 -
> August 2nd.
> 
> WNBC/WNJU have been given permission by the FCC to alternate using the Upper and the Lower
> Antennas - this will allow for Durst to do work on the mast.
> 
> It's quite possible that WNBC/WNJU may choose to remain on the Lower Antenna, as that was
> NBCUniversal's original intent.


Thanks. I'll stay pointed where I am. Main goal is to get Giants games in the Fall. Damn Philly area! Guess we'll see by August.


----------



## Brian in CT

Spankey said:


> Thanks. I'll stay pointed where I am. Main goal is to get Giants games in the Fall. Damn Philly area! Guess we'll see by August.


You might have a problem receiving WNYW even after they sign-on with their new signal. LPTV station WPSJ-CD is scheduled to move to Philadelphia in August, and it will also be using RF channel 27. From what I can see from both stations' coverage maps, which one you get can go either way, depending on your local terrain. Worse, they might end up cancelling each other out where you are.


----------



## trailblazer

Spankey said:


> Quick question. Having trouble getting WNYW at the moment. I'm in Robbinsville, NJ about 45 miles out and no trouble with CBS, NBC and WOR. I didn't expect to get ABC but that's really a non-issue. Would the antenna not be pointed at WTC for Fox?



Have you tried picking up the stations out of Philly. I live in Jackson NJ and can receive both NY and Philly, but I get a much stronger signal from Philly than NY For instance, WNBC is about 75 to 80 % while WCAU is 90 to 95 %. Also, I get some multipath distortion from NY which causes the signals to fluctuate causing pixelation and at times a complete loss of signal.


----------



## Brian in CT

trailblazer said:


> Have you tried picking up the stations out of Philly?


The guy said he wanted to receive WNYW to watch Giants games this fall.


----------



## Spankey

trailblazer said:


> Have you tried picking up the stations out of Philly. I live in Jackson NJ and can receive both NY and Philly, but I get a much stronger signal from Philly than NY For instance, WNBC is about 75 to 80 % while WCAU is 90 to 95 %. Also, I get some multipath distortion from NY which causes the signals to fluctuate causing pixelation and at times a complete loss of signal.


I have Directv Now as my main provider. I'm grandfathered in to the original Go Big package which is still $50 for over 100 channels. They used to give my both NY and Philly locals then reverted to just Philly. That said I do get Fox, CBS and NBC from Philly as well. Not as strong but good enough. NY is pretty strong. I may just have to raise the antenna higher for Fox if I have issues come August.


----------



## KEVINL71

Robbinsville, NJ...I think that's at Exit 7A of I-95/New Jersey Turnpike. I was told that this town used to be one of the million "Washington" towns in that state.


----------



## Spankey

KEVINL71 said:


> Robbinsville, NJ...I think that's at Exit 7A of I-95/New Jersey Turnpike. I was told that this town used to be one of the million "Washington" towns in that state.


That it was.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

*PMCM's Dumb Approach to Callsigns*

Perhaps in today's terrestrial broadcasting world, the callsign is nowhere near as relevant to the programming content of a station nor as unique in its representation of the station's community of license, mission, or ownership as it used to be. But from a marketing perspective, you want your brand to be as wide-reaching as possible in order to realize the greatest possible rate of return.

This is all coming around to Press Communication, LLCs' PMCM TV (licensee of WJLP Middletown Township) and their recent acquisition of low-power channel 51 at New York. The callsign at acquisition on February 19, 2019 was WBQM-LD New York, with BQM standing for Brooklyn/Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, which represents a substantive portion of the highly desirable New York City audience. Then on April 18, 2019, PMCM TV changed the callsign to WNWT-LD New York, presumably to mean NeWsneT, the news-focused digninet which recently took to air over WJLP-DT 6 Middletown Township, sister to now WNWT-LD, and is now the programming transmitted over the primary stream of WNWT-LD. This callsign well represents the current primary programming on the station, but it narrows the station's perceived focus to its primary stream affiliation and a news-focused audience, thus limiting the marketing potential for this station as a whole comprised of the remaining streams if they are to be maintained.

Clearly a callsign change in most cases is not akin to station suicide, and this low-power station may someday wind up a casualty to the seemingly ever-expanding cellular build-out anyway, but it wouldn't hurt for more local broadcasters to take a see the forest for the trees approach when trying to satisfy their egos by implementing self-aggrandizing and perhaps short-sighted branding.

Regrettably, PMCM TV seems to be intimating their company's desire to keep a clearer focus on the trees.


----------



## LenL

I have a yagi style UHF antenna practically brand new I am giving away. If anyone is interested please pm me. It is free! I think it is either a Wineguard or Channel Master. About 8 years old. 



As an aside I have lost WABC 7.1. Signal strength is about 60-62 and Quality is zero. Meanwhile I get 13.1 at 80 strength and quality 100.


Any thoughts?


----------



## MarkB64

Program Note.


Comet Has "The Prisoner " running a marathon like Decades Channel did till we lost it.


METV has "the Invaders" at Midnight on their Sci-Fi Saturday.


MarkB49


----------



## Useeme1234

We don't get comet in nyc, I can stream their channel on roku. too bad we cannot get retrotv, i love shows like route66, naked city so noir


----------



## wfgarnett3

Getting them again -- this time with AntennasDirect 2MAX antenna indoors -- up to 119 miles away in Bensalem, PA


----------



## Useeme1234

Youre gettin these stations thru tropo ducting, enjoy while it last. Next year with repack 
Channel dxing most likely wont happen.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

wfgarnett3 said:


> Getting them again -- this time with AntennasDirect 2MAX antenna indoors -- up to 119 miles away in Bensalem, PA


Seriously, what is wrong with the folks at Univision!? Stream 67-2 should NOT be identifying as WFUT-DT; The call-sign for that station is WFTY Smithtown.


----------



## ansky212

Giacomo Siffredi said:


> Seriously, what is wrong with the folks at Univision!? Stream 67-2 should NOT be identifying as WFUT-DT; The call-sign for that station is WFTY Smithtown.


Why is WFTY even on the air? Isn't their coverage area already covered by WFUT?


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> Why is WFTY even on the air? Isn't their coverage area already covered by WFUT?


Not quite. WFTY covers areas farther east on Long Island that WFUT can't reach. Also, WFTY hits the New Haven area with a good signal that WFUT can't reach, either.


----------



## SnellKrell

Those wonderful folks from Durst have done it again!

With its approaching frequency change and move to 1WTC, WLIW has been informed by Durst
that the building cannot fulfill its contractual obligation to have the station broadcast from the
Upper UHF Antenna.

WLIW has had to go to the Commission to request permission to now use to the Lower UHF
Antenna - "Due to power handling capacity factors ... "

This station now joins a list of other broadcasters who have had to resign themselves to
Durst's inability to live up to its promises and obligations.

This is from a building that purported to provide the world's most advanced broadcasting facility!!!!


----------



## ansky212

Yesterday, Trip had a post on the Hartford forum that the DTS application for WEDW/WZME has been approved. This will put an additional PBS channel (from CT) into the immediate NYC metro.


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> Those wonderful folks from Durst have done it again!
> 
> With its approaching frequency change and move to 1WTC, WLIW has been informed by Durst
> that the building cannot fulfill its contractual obligation to have the station broadcast from the
> Upper UHF Antenna.
> 
> WLIW has had to go to the Commission to request permission to now use to the Lower UHF
> Antenna - "Due to power handling capacity factors ... "
> 
> This station now joins a list of other broadcasters who have had to resign themselves to
> Durst's inability to live up to its promises and obligations.
> 
> This is from a building that purported to provide the world's most advanced broadcasting facility!!!!



I wish that the stations that are running at reduced power would get back to their normal state soon. Since the stations moved from the ESB to the WTC, the signal quality has been all over the place at my location. Some days all is good, while other days I have fluctuating signal quality!


----------



## SnellKrell

trailblazer said:


> I wish that the stations that are running at reduced power would get back to their normal state soon. Since the stations moved from the ESB to the WTC, the signal quality has been all over the place at my location. Some days all is good, while other days I have fluctuating signal quality!


Let's hope that when Phase 4 takes hold on 8/2 things will get better.

But Durst's history doesn't hold out all that much promise.

As I've mentioned before, somehow, management at the ESB were 
able to do work on the mast and those antennas below in the middle
of the night with the disruptions we've all had to face.


----------



## Swamp_Yankee

I'm fairly new at this so apologies if I'm not posting things in the right place. I had posted this regarding getting opinions on how good (or how bad) OTA reception of NYC channels would be in my area in the HDTV Technical Forum:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-h...market-northwest-nj-08827-a.html#post58177466


----------



## ansky212

Swamp_Yankee said:


> I'm fairly new at this so apologies if I'm not posting things in the right place. I had posted this regarding getting opinions on how good (or how bad) OTA reception of NYC channels would be in my area in the HDTV Technical Forum:
> 
> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-h...market-northwest-nj-08827-a.html#post58177466


At 50 miles out it would be hard enough pulling in reception even over flat terrain. The fact that you have elevation higher than you to your east is almost guaranteed to block out whatever fragments of a signal make it out that far. Unfortunately this stuff is mostly trial and error with different antennas.


----------



## Swamp_Yankee

ansky212 said:


> At 50 miles out it would be hard enough pulling in reception even over flat terrain. The fact that you have elevation higher than you to your east is almost guaranteed to block out whatever fragments of a signal make it out that far. Unfortunately this stuff is mostly trial and error with different antennas.


From the TVFool report and the list of "must have" channels, does it seem like its even worth trying, or should we just stick with cable/satellite? What is the best method of testing? Just connecting an antenna directly to a TV and placing in various locations?


----------



## ansky212

Swamp_Yankee said:


> What is the best method of testing? Just connecting an antenna directly to a TV and placing in various locations?


Yes, that's pretty much the only way to test. It looks like you have a few responses in the other thread.


----------



## WR2M

LenL said:


> I have a yagi style UHF antenna practically brand new I am giving away. If anyone is interested please pm me. It is free! I think it is either a Wineguard or Channel Master. About 8 years old.
> 
> 
> 
> As an aside I have lost WABC 7.1. Signal strength is about 60-62 and Quality is zero. Meanwhile I get 13.1 at 80 strength and quality 100.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?


Hello, If you still have the UHF Yagi, I would be interested providing you still have it. I am in Roxbury NJ so as per your profile we are pretty close. My direct email is [email protected] if you would like to contact me direct...
Thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

Phase 4 Repack testing is scheduled to start today.

I've seen tickers on both WCBS and WNBC (WNJU) announcing that a re-scan will
be necessary. Frequencies will change for those stations at 1 p.m. on August 1st.


----------



## SnellKrell

For those with insomnia, WNJU/WNBC will be testing its new frequency, Channel 35, 
OTA, from "after midnight" to 5 a.m. before the August 1st change.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> For those with insomnia, WNJU/WNBC will be testing its new frequency, Channel 35,
> OTA, from "after midnight" to 5 a.m. before the August 1st change.


I'm glad they are getting all this out of the way now, before the fall TV season starts. I use a Tivo OTA DVR, and whenever these frequency changes take place it requires Tivo to make back-end changes to sync the guide data with the new frequency. It can be a bit of a nightmare.


----------



## LIantenna585

SnellKrell said:


> For those with insomnia, WNJU/WNBC will be testing its new frequency, Channel 35,
> OTA, from "after midnight" to 5 a.m. before the August 1st change.


Will this testing occur every night until August 1?

Is this information related to repack testing and scheduling publicly available somewhere?


----------



## SnellKrell

LIantenna585 said:


> Will this testing occur every night until August 1?
> 
> Is this information related to repack testing and scheduling publicly available somewhere?


Yes as I stated - "WNJU/WNBC will be testing its new frequency ... "

Scheduling is not made public.


----------



## KEVINL71

I wonder if that will impact much, if any, of Connecticut? WVIT-TV (NBC) channel 30 of New Britain uses channel 35 for digital broadcasting. They transmit from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT, very close to US Route 6 and west of I-84.


----------



## SnellKrell

KEVINL71 said:


> I wonder if that will impact much, if any, of Connecticut? WVIT-TV (NBC) channel 30 of New Britain uses channel 35 for digital broadcasting. They transmit from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT, very close to US Route 6 and west of I-84.


It will!

WVIT is owned by NBCUniversal as are WNJU and WNBC.

WVIT has formally accepted the increased interference caused by the testing,
also, that's why it's taking place in the middle of the night.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> It will!
> 
> WVIT is owned by NBCUniversal as are WNJU and WNBC.
> 
> WVIT has formally accepted the increased interference caused by the testing,
> also, that's why it's taking place in the middle of the night.


That's for testing, but what happens after August 1? Won't the same interference still remain?


----------



## SnellKrell

WVIT will be leaving Channel 35 and moving to Channel 31.


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> That's for testing, but what happens after August 1?


I suggest you log onto www.rabbitears.info if you want to know where each TV station will end up after the repack ends. On the homepage, just click on "Web Listings," then click on the TV market you are interested in. Under the column "Physical Channel," RF channels after an "-->" show where that station is set to move to. TV stations shaded in green are sharing as a (G)uest or (H)ost. Neat stuff.


----------



## myork

Trip in VA said:


> Your antenna is not low-VHF capable. You will need to replace it with a low-VHF capable antenna in order to receive WJLP.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Just to keep everyone updated. I was considering the same thing as quoted above, along with an inkling that the station may have reduced power to save some cash.
However over the last two weeks the 33.xx channels have inexplicably been crystal clear. Other than visually checking my equipment for damage and finding nothing, I have made no changes.


Who knows how long it will last?



Anyway, thanks for all the input!


----------



## SnellKrell

myork said:


> Just to keep everyone updated. I was considering the same thing as quoted above, along with an inkling that the station may have reduced power to save some cash.
> However over the last two weeks the 33.xx channels have inexplicably been crystal clear. Other than visually checking my equipment for damage and finding nothing, I have made no changes.
> 
> 
> Who knows how long it will last?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for all the input!


Stations cannot arbitrarily reduce power for any reason, no less to save money!

Power reductions have to be approved by the FCC.

In the New York market, we have experienced authorized power reductions to
allow work on the 1WTC mast.


----------



## KyL416

WJLP is now operating on a STA to boost their power as part of a mutual interference agreement with WDPN/2 in Philly and WACP/4 in Atlantic City. Because of all that trouble with Durst they couldn't move to 1WTC in time so the STA is from 4 Times Square. You can check rabbitears's listings if you want to see the contour maps for the STA and the future 1WTC facility.


----------



## ansky212

WLIW and WEDW are both expected to move in Phase 3. WEDW is moving to channel 21 which is currently occupied by WLIW. So WEDW can't do any testing on their new channel assignment until WLIW vacates channel 21. Just curious what the timing is on this.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> WLIW and WEDW are both expected to move in Phase 3. WEDW is moving to channel 21 which is currently occupied by WLIW. So WEDW can't do any testing on their new channel assignment until WLIW vacates channel 21. Just curious what the timing is on this.


First of all, those changes will be made part of Phase 4 of the Repack.

Second, certain testing can be done without actual OTA transmission.

Changes should occur on or before August 2nd.

WCBS and WNJU/WNBC have already announced that their changes will take place
at 1 p.m. on August 1st.


----------



## logger-a

SnellKrell said:


> WCBS and WNJU/WNBC have already announced that their changes will take place
> at 1 p.m. on August 1st.


According to https://cptv.org/antenna-users/: "WEDH Hartford, WEDY New Haven and WEDW Stamford will change their physical broadcast channel on August 2, 2019."


----------



## tld

In case anyone's not aware, here's a list of all the changes directly from the FCC:

http://data.fcc.gov/download/incentive-auctions/Transition_Files/Phase_Assignment_Closing_PN.csv

As far as I've seen so far I believe all NY stations listed there with a PHASE_COMPLETION_DATE of 8/2/2019 are changing at 1 PM on 8/1.

Tom


----------



## SnellKrell

WPXN has filed with the FCC for permission to do OTA testing of its new, Repack - Phase 4
frequency, Channel 34 before the August 2nd change over.

Testing would be coordinated with WCAU in Philadelphia, currently transmitting on 
Channel 34, and would occur after midnight and conclude before 5 a.m.

So, now we have two stations in the market planning to do OTA testing of their
new frequencies - WNJU/WNBC and WPXN.


----------



## LenL

I don't see anyone else complaining about this so it may be very specific to my location and equipment. I have a VHF antenna pointed at NYC and receive 13.1 with 100% on signal quality and strength. I can't get 11.1 or 7.1. I see signal quality for both are zero or close. However signal strength is in the 70's or higher.


I recently add a homemade 4 element Yagi to my mast and aimed it at basking ridge to get 8.1. Well it not only picked up 8.1 but also 13.1 with high level of signal quality and strength. Getting 13.1 was not planned for but it was nice to see. However 7.1 and 11.1 are still missing.


I tried signal atenuators, RF filters and moving the antennas and the results are the same. No 7.1 or 11.1 due to signal quality.


So there must be something causing very specific signal quality degradation between my location and the ESB.


I was wondering if anyone in NJ either to my east or west is having any issues?


By the way this has been going on for many months. Last year I was getting these VHF channels. In fact 7.1 was 100% at one time in signal quality and strength.


----------



## Useeme1234

Lenl gazing at those 2 stations on trips site, those 2 stations have translators stations at west orange. maybe you outta try to receive those instead


----------



## KyL416

Useeme1234 said:


> Lenl gazing at those 2 stations on trips site, those 2 stations have translators stations at west orange. maybe you outta try to receive those instead


 The West Orange entries are not translators, the DTX entries are backup auxiliary facilities.


After 9/11 most of the major NYC stations now have auxiliary facilities at other sites like West Orange, 4 Times Square, along with Empire for the new 1WTC stations.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> Lenl gazing at those 2 stations on trips site, those 2 stations have translators stations at west orange. maybe you outta try to receive those instead


The Orange Mountain transmission facility used by WABC and WPIX does
not provide "translators."

The facility is there as a backup to main transmission from ESB. It is
used if there's a problem, it is instead of, not in addition to.


----------



## trailblazer

*WNBC/WNJU Signal Issues*

Does any one have any insight as to what is going on with the signal for WNBC/WNJU (RF 36). For the past week I have not been able to get a stable signal in Jackson NJ. Signal strength is lower than all the other channels out of NY including WPIX low powered signal. My concern about this when RF 36 is taken over by WCBS in August, will I encounter the same issue. Currently WCBS signal strength is 85 to 95% while WNBC/WNJU RF 36 is running around 45 to 65% with pixelation. Also, at times I have completely lost the signal.


----------



## Useeme1234

I lost wliw ch21 about a month ago, they must of decreased power for changeover? I'm waiting to see
if wedw ch49 signal will be receivable now that they moved/ increased power..


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> I have a VHF antenna pointed at NYC and receive 13.1 with 100% on signal quality and strength. I can't get 11.1 or 7.1. I see signal quality for both are zero or close. However signal strength is in the 70's or higher.
> 
> I recently add a homemade 4 element Yagi to my mast and aimed it at basking ridge to get 8.1. Well it not only picked up 8.1 but also 13.1 with high level of signal quality and strength. Getting 13.1 was not planned for but it was nice to see. However 7.1 and 11.1 are still missing.
> 
> I tried signal atenuators, RF filters and moving the antennas and the results are the same. No 7.1 or 11.1 due to signal quality.


If I had to guess, you might have some local interference that is killing your signal quality on RF 7 & 11. You do have enough signal strength. Did you or your neighbors (if they're close by) install anything electronic that could be causing interference? Just to be sure, you might want to check your setup for any problems.

Also, channel 13 is on 1WTC, while 7 and 11 are still transmitting from ESB. This is probably coincidence, but in the ATSC 1.0 world you never know.


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> I lost wliw ch21 about a month ago, they must of decreased power for changeover? .


They did not decrease power. As of this evening I'm pulling in WLIW at 100% signal strength from New Jersey. I have never been able to get them at more than 80% before. Makes me wonder if they have made the move to WTC.


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> I have never been able to get them at more than 80% before. Makes me wonder if they have made the move to WTC.


WLIW's CP at 1WTC is only for RF 32. So they cannot move to 1WTC while they are still on RF 21, and unless they file an STA with an interference agreement with WPSG for early testing like WPXN and WNJU/WNBC did, they can't test the RF 32 signal before WPSG vacates that number in Philly on August 1st. Even if they did, that testing would be going on during off peak hours overnight and not during primetime.

It's the same with WEDW/WZME, the CP for their boosted signal and the DTS from Empire is only for RF 21, so that boost/move can't happen until WLIW also transitions.


----------



## darkegg

Anyone know what happened to WNYE (Ch. 25)? It's been offline since Friday (June 28).


----------



## ansky212

darkegg said:


> Anyone know what happened to WNYE (Ch. 25)? It's been offline since Friday (June 28).


Working fine for me in NJ.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> Anyone know what happened to WNYE (Ch. 25)? It's been offline since Friday (June 28).


Coming in loud and clear here in the East 90s in Manhattan.

Separately, noticed that WPXN's testing of its new frequency on Channel 34
will emanate from 1WTC's Lower UHF Antenna, not the Upper which has
been authorized for the Repack.


----------



## darkegg

SnellKrell said:


> Coming in loud and clear here in the East 90s in Manhattan.


Ok, then WNYE is running on reduced power as seen by the live bandscanner. You must have a better signal than me.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> Ok, then WNYE is running on reduced power as seen by the live bandscanner. You must have a better signal than me.


Is it that WNYE is running on reduced power or you're receiving a weaker signal?

Big difference.


----------



## darkegg

SnellKrell said:


> Is it that WNYE is running on reduced power or you're receiving a weaker signal?
> 
> Big difference.


All my other channels are fine, so I'd say it's running on reduced power -- almost 50% of the original signal strength.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> All my other channels are fine, so I'd say it's running on reduced power -- almost 50% of the original signal strength.


Well I'm not seeing any problem - the station's signal strength and S/N Ratio
are the same as they've been for a long time.

There could be something that's affecting this particular frequency between
the transmitter and your antenna.

For example, your reception of Channel 3 has not been stable or consistent.


----------



## darkegg

SnellKrell said:


> Well I'm not seeing any problem - the station's signal strength and S/N Ratio
> are the same as they've been for a long time.
> 
> There could be something that's affecting this particular frequency between
> the transmitter and your antenna.
> 
> For example, your reception of Channel 3 has not been stable or consistent.


It's hard to believe that RF 25 (WWOR) is fine at almost 100% signal strength while the neighboring RF 24 (WNYE) suddenly drops from around 100% to 50% signal strength. Not to mention that this happened around midnight. I still believe something changed on the transmitting end. My Channel 3 has S/N issues, but the signal strength has been fairly consistent.


----------



## ansky212

darkegg said:


> It's hard to believe that RF 25 (WWOR) is fine at almost 100% signal strength while the neighboring RF 24 (WNYE) suddenly drops from around 100% to 50% signal strength. Not to mention that this happened around midnight. I still believe something changed on the transmitting end. My Channel 3 has S/N issues, but the signal strength has been fairly consistent.


I'm located 10 miles west of NYC and I'm pulling in WNYE at 100% signal strength. Whatever issue you are experiencing seems to be specific to your local area.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yesterday, the FCC approved both WNJU/WNBC and WPXN testing their new Repack
frequencies OTA.

1WTC testing will occur between post midnight and 5:00 a.m.


----------



## MozzyMoz

KyL416 said:


> WLIW's CP at 1WTC is only for RF 32. So they cannot move to 1WTC while they are still on RF 21, and unless they file an STA with an interference agreement with WPSG for early testing like WPXN and WNJU/WNBC did, they can't test the RF 32 signal before WPSG vacates that number in Philly on August 1st. Even if they did, that testing would be going on during off peak hours overnight and not during primetime.
> 
> It's the same with WEDW/WZME, the CP for their boosted signal and the DTS from Empire is only for RF 21, so that boost/move can't happen until WLIW also transitions.


So based on the announcement from WEDW/CPTV, the WLIW move is also happening because they cannot share RF 21 without interfering each other, am I right? I haven't read any announcements from WLIW so far.


----------



## KyL416

WLIW is switching at 1pm on August 1st as part of the massive coordinated simultaneous switchover that also involves stations in PA and Connecticut:
https://www.wliw.org/blog-post/channel-switch-over/

The low power station WXNY-LD that's currently on RF32 filed to go silent back in June until their displacement application to move to RF 23 is granted.

WEDW (and WZME) is switching over on August 2nd, they haven't given a specific time yet on their website. Hopefully by the time that happens WTXX-LD is ready to move to their own signal and WEDW will go back to HD. (WTXX-LD is moving to a tower north of Hartford on RF 29, but they can't do so until WUTF in Worcester moves to RF 19, so they have a STA to spectrum share with WEDW's half of the signal)


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WEDW (and WZME) is switching over on August 2nd, they haven't given a specific time yet on their website.


WEDW has 2 options for channel 21 - they can either broadcast from Stamford, or they can broadcast on their DTS from Trumbull and ESB. I have not seen any official word on what they will actually have built out by August 2nd.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> WEDW has 2 options for channel 21 - they can either broadcast from Stamford, or they can broadcast on their DTS from Trumbull and ESB. I have not seen any official word on what they will actually have built out by August 2nd.


https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...&id=25076f916baf222b016bb3ebbbc8393d&goBack=N

"Because DTS application was recently granted (on 6/12/19), station will have temporary facility completed in time to meet the 8/2/19 construction deadline. Design and construction of permanent DTS facility will commence post- 8/2/19 deadline."

- Trip


----------



## KyL416

According to the latest transition plan progress report on 7/2, WEDW is going to constuct the DTS facility after the 8/2 deadline. They mention a temporary facility until then, but as of now there's no seperate STA filed for that. With a public broadcasting budget I doubt the temporary facility is going to be the CP at Stamford since the temporary facility will only be in use for a few months, and all the previous progress reports mentioned waiting for the DTS to be approved as a reason for not starting construction on that CP.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> According to the latest transition plan progress report on 7/2, WEDW is going to constuct the DTS facility after the 8/2 deadline. They mention a temporary facility until then, but as of now there's no seperate STA filed for that. With a public broadcasting budget I doubt the temporary facility is going to be the CP at Stamford since the temporary facility will only be in use for a few months, and all the previous progress reports mentioned waiting for the DTS to be approved as a reason for not starting construction on that CP.


Since they already have a tower in Trumbull, and Trumbull is one of the locations for the DTS, my assumption is that they would broadcast on channel 21 from Trumbull until the ESB site is built out. Unless they are going to use some other antenna on ESB temporarily until the permanent one is built.


----------



## MozzyMoz

KyL416 said:


> WLIW is switching at 1pm on August 1st as part of the massive coordinated simultaneous switchover that also involves stations in PA and Connecticut:
> https://www.wliw.org/blog-post/channel-switch-over/


I was looking onto the WLIW site and haven't found any announcement. 
Thanks for the link!
The press release indicates August 1st at 1pm, so at that afternoon there will be a massive frequency exchange in the NYC area that will be very interesting to witness. I wonder if WLIW will start broadcasting from 1WTC or will remain in LI. I sincerely hope for a transmitter move to 1WTC since I am afraid with this change I might lose WEDW until their permanent site is up and running.


----------



## KyL416

The only construction permits WLIW has for channel 32 are from 1WTC. Unless they file for a STA at the last minute, they cannot broadcast on RF 32 from the current tower on exit 48 of the expressway. (Plus they would likely need a new antenna and transmitter if the current one isn't capable of broadcasting on RF 32)

That's all a moot point though, according to the latest progress report filing the work for the RF32 signal at 1WTC is completed, so they have no technical reason to temporarily broadcast from their current site after the 8/2 deadline.


----------



## rothe

trailblazer said:


> Does any one have any insight as to what is going on with the signal for WNBC/WNJU (RF 36). For the past week I have not been able to get a stable signal in Jackson NJ. Signal strength is lower than all the other channels out of NY including WPIX low powered signal. My concern about this when RF 36 is taken over by WCBS in August, will I encounter the same issue. Currently WCBS signal strength is 85 to 95% while WNBC/WNJU RF 36 is running around 45 to 65% with pixelation. Also, at times I have completely lost the signal.



I'm over in Ocean Grove (Neptune/Asbury Park area), so not far from you. I have not noticed any change in the signal over the past several weeks. There are programs that I regularly record on WNBC, and I have been receiving them reliably.


----------



## nyctveng

WNYW is scheduled to turn down their UHF 44 transmitter at 1 WTC this week and move over to it's backup transmitter in West Orange. It will return to 1 WTC after the repack on its new frequency.


----------



## SnellKrell

nyctveng said:


> WNYW is scheduled to turn down their UHF 44 transmitter at 1 WTC this week and move over to it's backup transmitter in West Orange. It will return to 1 WTC after the repack on its new frequency.


Wonder why WNYW has found it necessary to go dark from 1WTC until the Repack date?

Other stations won't be following suit.

There goes my OTA reception for WNYW - have never been able to pick up signals from
West Orange!


----------



## trailblazer

nyctveng said:


> WNYW is scheduled to turn down their UHF 44 transmitter at 1 WTC this week and move over to it's backup transmitter in West Orange. It will return to 1 WTC after the repack on its new frequency.


Where did you see this information. I have not seen any information from WNYW about this. Really does not make any sense to me for them to do this since they would lose a lot of eyeballs which advertisers do not like.


----------



## trailblazer

rothe said:


> I'm over in Ocean Grove (Neptune/Asbury Park area), so not far from you. I have not noticed any change in the signal over the past several weeks. There are programs that I regularly record on WNBC, and I have been receiving them reliably.


Thanks for the info.


Since last Thursday, July 4th, the signal has been fine with me getting a signal strenght of 75 to 90%. What transpired the prior two weeks with signal issues on WNBC/WNJU, I have no idea. It was like a wall was in front of my antenna. Anyway, its back to normal for now since last Thursday. Also, hope that the repack of frequencies on August 1st goes smoothly.


----------



## ansky212

Looks like WNYW is already off the air. I just tuned in and no signal.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Looks like WNYW is already off the air. I just tuned in and no signal.


No problem here in the East 90s in Manhattan - receiving the station.

If the station had turned off transmission from 1WTC, it would have switched to West Orange -
your location!!!!!


----------



## trailblazer

ansky212 said:


> Looks like WNYW is already off the air. I just tuned in and no signal.


 No!


Still on the air from the WTC. I have normal signal strength in Jackson NJ from WNYW.


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> Looks like WNYW is already off the air. I just tuned in and no signal.


Still receiving here but the signal is weak. See https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WNYW


----------



## ansky212

trailblazer said:


> No!
> 
> 
> Still on the air from the WTC. I have normal signal strength in Jackson NJ from WNYW.


It's back on now. It was definitely off the air when I checked just before 3pm.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> It's back on now. It was definitely off the air when I checked just before 3pm.


No!

WNYW was not off the air.

If you look at darkegg's post, which included the Live Bandscan graphic,
it clearly shows that the signal was reduced, not off the air!


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> No!
> 
> WNYW was not off the air.
> 
> If you look at darkegg's post, which included the Live Bandscan graphic,
> it clearly shows that the signal was reduced, not off the air!


Ok, relax. All I can tell you is at 2:55pm I could not receive them at all. But right now at 3:44pm they are back to 100% signal from my location in NJ. No reduced signal from my location.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Ok, relax. All I can tell you is at 2:55pm I could not receive them at all. But right now at 3:44pm they are back to 100% signal from my location in NJ. No reduced signal from my location.


I am relaxed! I am also knowledgeable!

The station's signal was attenuated.

Your signal was lost.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> I am relaxed! I am also knowledgeable!
> 
> The station's signal was attenuated.
> 
> Your signal was lost.


By the way, to answer your other question. Even though I'm located in West Orange, my antenna is pointed East towards NYC. The back up transmitter is located right up the street from me, but it's to the Southwest of me, so I would not have been able to pick it up with this antenna configuration.


----------



## nyctveng

trailblazer said:


> Where did you see this information. I have not seen any information from WNYW about this. Really does not make any sense to me for them to do this since they would lose a lot of eyeballs which advertisers do not like.


If they do it, it's cause they have to in order to do whatever they need to do for the repack. Most viewers are via Cable, Satellite, Streaming App, OTT, etc. Sure they may lose some viewers for 3 weeks but the temp change is unavoidable whether it makes sense to you or not.


----------



## LenL

I just want to verify that 13.1 going to RF 12 is still phase 9 and scheduled around May of 2020?


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> I just want to verify that 13.1 going to RF 12 is still phase 9 and scheduled around May of 2020?


Yes!


----------



## Useeme1234

Lost most of networks late in the eve, early morning, try a rescan to get em back, nada, looks like they completely offline, not on another frequency like testing other rf channel what gives?


----------



## trailblazer

Useeme1234 said:


> Lost most of networks late in the eve, early morning, try a rescan to get em back, nada, looks like they completely offline, not on another frequency like testing other rf channel what gives?



I lost WNBC last evening during prime time. Was back on this morning but lower signal strength than usual. All other stations were fine.


----------



## darkegg

trailblazer said:


> I lost WNBC last evening during prime time. Was back on this morning but lower signal strength than usual. All other stations were fine.


WNJU/WNBC was actually broadcasting on RF Ch. 35 last night from around 12:10AM to 1:10AM. So, if you really need to watch something, try rescanning or manually tuning into the new RF Ch. I haven't seen any lowering of signal strength, but then I might not be seeing it because my signal is too strong here.

WCBS was also offline last night from around 1:15AM to 3:00AM, but obviously it couldn't broadcast from RF Ch. 36 while WNJU was using it.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> WNJU/WNBC was actually broadcasting on RF Ch. 35 last night from around 12:10AM to 1:10AM. So, if you really need to watch something, try rescanning or manually tuning into the new RF Ch. I haven't seen any lowering of signal strength, but then I might not be seeing it because my signal is too strong here.
> 
> WCBS was also offline last night from around 1:15AM to 3:00AM, but obviously it couldn't broadcast from RF Ch. 36 while WNJU was using it.


I, also received Channel 35 last night/morning at the times you mentioned.

I received NBC/Cozi and Telemundo/TeleXitos.

When I checked the PSIP information, I was surprised to learn that I wasn't
receiving test transmissions from 1WTC, I was receiving NBC/Telemundo, WVIT
from New Britain, CT with an extraordinarily strong signal!


----------



## ansky212

Well this is a new one. I just did a re-scan of my TV a few minutes ago. WNJN 50.1 and 50.2 are showing up, which is odd since I never usually receive this station. What makes it even stranger is that it is showing up as RF 35. I'm getting about 40% signal strength. WNJN is supposed to be on RF 8, and their transmitter is about 20 miles southwest of me, but my antenna is pointing east. Not sure what is going on here.


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> WNJN 50.1 and 50.2 are showing up, which is odd since I never usually receive this station. What makes it even stranger is that it is showing up as RF 35. I'm getting about 40% signal strength. WNJN is supposed to be on RF 8, and their transmitter is about 20 miles southwest of me, but my antenna is pointing east. Not sure what is going on here.


You're picking up their Sussex translator W35DK-D.


----------



## Useeme1234

I receive wtnh ch10 from newhaven ct almost nightly during this mini heatwave, sometimes wvit if the signal inversion is strong enough


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> You're picking up their Sussex translator W35DK-D.


Wow. That's pretty amazing given that Sussex is about 50 miles away from me and my antenna is pointed in the exact opposite direction.


----------



## KyL416

It's a side effect of summer heatwaves, randomly picking up distant signals, including low power signals like translators.

My record during the analog era was in the mid-90s on Long Island where one evening I randomly picked up WEDU from Tampa on channel 3. Usually I got snowy reception of WFSB on 3 and occasionally I got KYW, but that evening I was flipping channels and Lamb Chop's play-a-long was on and it stayed long enough to see the station id during the promo break. The morning after the 2003 blackout when most of the NYC stations were still off the air I was picking up WJHL from the tri-cities area on channel 11.

I've since moved to the Poconos and my digital record here is a station from North Carolina, but on analog in the summer of 2004 I picked up WHDH from Boston overriding WABC for several afternoons during a heatwave.


----------



## speedlaw

*best DX*

I enjoyed seeing analog DX back in the day. Located north of NYC, had a Radio Shack VU120 on the roof. NYC had 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13. We'd often get 3 from Philly, but one day got 3, 6, 8 and 10 as well. I was amazed to see the full set of philly stations that one evening.


----------



## LIantenna585

Great DX conditions last night. Out here in Suffolk County (Long Island) I was able to lock WPIX and get a signal of WNET — with an indoor UHF antenna!


----------



## LIantenna585

Also, I noticed something interesting last night — when I received WNET (around midnight), the PSIP for WNET, WNDT-CD, and WMBQ-CD showed up, along with RF channels 12-3, 12-5, and 12-7 (see the images attached). I couldn’t tell if anything was broadcasting on those 12-x channels, because the signal from WNET was too choppy and I wasn’t sure if it was mixing in. Does anyone know what could be broadcasting on RF channel 12?


----------



## KEVINL71

SnellKrell said:


> I, also received Channel 35 last night/morning at the times you mentioned.
> 
> I received NBC/Cozi and Telemundo/TeleXitos.
> 
> When I checked the PSIP information, I was surprised to learn that I wasn't
> receiving test transmissions from 1WTC, I was receiving NBC/Telemundo, WVIT
> from New Britain, CT with an extraordinarily strong signal!


WVIT-TV transmits from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT, close to US Route 6 and west of I-84. They've been on channel 35 since at least the 2009 transition. The slightly taller tower next to them carries the following:

WCCT-TV (CW) channel 20 Waterbury
WEDH-TV (PBS) channel 24 Hartford
WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 Hartford
The WTIC-TV tower is also home to WRCH-FM (A/C) 100.5, licensed to New Britain.


WVIT-TV, as you may have noticed, is also an NBC O&O station. For some reason, they identify their Telemundo and Telexitos stations as "19-1" and "19-2", respectively.


----------



## SnellKrell

Currently, WPXU-LD is transmitting on Chanel 12 from the Bloomberg Tower
in Manhattan.


----------



## LIantenna585

SnellKrell said:


> Currently, WPXU-LD is transmitting on Chanel 12 from the Bloomberg Tower
> in Manhattan.


Rabbitears only shows WPXU-LD having one subchannel: Daystar on display channel 12-1 (physical channel 12-3). Are those two other subchannels of RF channel 12 I received (physical channels 12-5 and 12-7) not in the Rabbitears database?


----------



## Trip in VA

Quite possibly. I've not gotten an update on WPXU-LD in some time.


- Trip


----------



## KyL416

KEVINL71 said:


> WVIT-TV, as you may have noticed, is also an NBC O&O station. For some reason, they identify their Telemundo and Telexitos stations as "19-1" and "19-2", respectively.


That's because it's their sister Telemundo station 19-x WRDM-CD that's spectrum sharing with them. They had to change from virtual 50 to virutal 19 to prevent a conflict with WVVH because WVIT's signal overlaps WVVH's. (Picking Virtual 19 also conveniently places them next to the local Univision station)

WNDT-CD had to do a similar thing when they started sharing on WNET's signal to prevent conflicts with WPHL and some other nearby low power stations on virtual 17 like WNMF-LD. In that case they ended up picking virtual 14.


----------



## KEVINL71

Right! The former low-power channel 50 analog station. I think it was W13BF channel 13 at one time. I used to get a VERY faint signal of the old channel 13 in New Britain's south end. Only on a warm and humid summer night would WNET-TV (PBS) channel 13 ever pop in though.


----------



## ansky212

WLNY is running a scroll this evening indicating that they will be changing to their new RF assignment on July 24th at 1pm.


----------



## ansky212

Decades network will be returning in Q3.

https://deadline.com/2019/07/fox-te...asting-decades-television-network-1202644017/


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, the Phase 4 transition is not going as smoothly as many had hoped.

The latest problems have been - WLIW being told by Durst that there wasn't
enough power to have this station transmit from the Upper UHF Antenna on
1WTC. The station will now have to use the Lower UHF Antenna.

Next, it's been reported that WNYW sill shutting down transmission from 1WTC
and fire up its West Orange, NJ AUX facility to allow Durst to work on its
new frequency and position on the mast. Supposedly, this work will be done
before the magic 8/1-8/2 Repack date.

Now, another shoe has dropped. WCBS has filed with the Commission to 
allow it to use its AUX transmission site on the Lower UHF Antenna as of
8/1 - for up to 6 weeks.

This will allow Durst to adjust and modify the Upper UHF Antenna's
Combiner. I had naively thought that Durst would have done this
work before 8/1. 

By the way, the WCBS AUX Antenna is currently authorized to transmit
241 kW. WCBS has requested that it be permitted to increase this power
to 321 kW. This compares to the station's Upper Antenna's 548 kW for
Channel 36!

I shudder to think what's next from Durst??????


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell,


Thanks for the great reporting! It appears that this is being woefully mismanaged! Of course they will all give themselves hefty performance bonuses for the great job they did!


1WTC OTA operations have been a poorly managed since they did all the great publicity about how wonderful the equipment was and so state of the art and all the super capacity. It was all malarky! That's a scientific term that needs to be used more for 1WTC!


----------



## ansky212

As of 12pm today it looks like WNYW is back to low power. I'm only getting a 13db signal from them (unwatchable) from NJ.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> SnellKrell,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the great reporting! It appears that this is being woefully mismanaged! Of course they will all give themselves hefty performance bonuses for the great job they did!
> 
> 
> 1WTC OTA operations have been a poorly managed since they did all the great publicity about how wonderful the equipment was and so state of the art and all the super capacity. It was all malarky! That's a scientific term that needs to be used more for 1WTC!


Thanks.

It's both amazing disheartening the way in which Durst has been able to get away
with gross ineptitude!

I've posted this before, but it's worth remembering this claim -

*"The facility was designed with state-of-the-art equipment and also has the infrastructure for future
broadcasting technological advancements."

John Lyons
Assistant Vice President and Director of Broadcast Communications of the The Durst Organization*


----------



## darkegg

On Ch 50.2, this is what they are showing (see attached image). W35DK moving to new frequency on Aug 1st. Of course, they have to show this text overlay for the whole program, making the actual show unwatchable. They are not showing the overlay on Ch 50.1.


----------



## KyL416

The NHK World feed isn't really friendly to the reporting requirements, they don't have local optouts like other networks do to allow the full screen messaging. With the main NJTV channel they can just run the required full screen promo during breaks.


----------



## darkegg

Looks like WLIW was broadcasting from 1WTC last night from 1AM-3AM. I'm not sure if it stopped broadcasting from Mannetto Hills during that time.

WNJU is currently broadcasting on RF 35 and RF 36 simultaneously, although channel information is missing on RF 35:



Code:


ch=auto:36 lock=8vsb ss=100 snq=100 seq=100 bps=14245888 pps=0
1: 4.3 WNBC
2: 4.4 COZI-TV
3: 47.1 WNJU-HD
4: 47.2 TeleX
5: 4.1 WNBC
6: 4.2 COZI-TV
tsid=0x07D5

ch=auto:35 lock=8vsb ss=100 snq=100 seq=100 bps=13090816 pps=0
1: 0
2: 0
3: 0
4: 0
tsid=0x07D5

Also, WNYE is back for me with full power. It wasn't a problem on my end, as I thought.


----------



## logger-a

Trip in VA said:


> https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...&id=25076f916baf222b016bb3ebbbc8393d&goBack=N
> 
> "Because DTS application was recently granted (on 6/12/19), station will have temporary facility completed in time to meet the 8/2/19 construction deadline. Design and construction of permanent DTS facility will commence post- 8/2/19 deadline."


Some newer information: WEDW has requested


that the construction permit for the DTS be extended to 01/29/2020
Special Temporary Authority to operate on its post-repack channel (21) using an interim facility at its existing tower in Trumbull


----------



## Useeme1234

logger-a said:


> Some newer information: WEDW has requested
> 
> 
> that the construction permit for the DTS be extended to 01/29/2020
> Special Temporary Authority to operate on its post-repack channel (21) using an interim facility at its existing tower in Trumbull


Still not sure where their post- repack transmitter location is gonna be located.


----------



## KyL416

It says it right there in the logger-a's post. The interim STA facility for RF 21 is at their current Trumbull tower where RF 49 comes from.

The final RF 21 antenna at Trumbull will be where the current RF 49 antenna is, so the RF 21 STA they filed for is for a temporary antenna lower on the Trumbull tower with pretty much the same pattern and coverage area as the current RF 49 signal. Basically if you can't get WEDW on RF 49 now, don't expect to get it on RF 21 until they finish the build out of the final DTS facilities at Trumbull and the Empire State Building.


BTW, for those wondering why it's taking so long, blame WJLP's owners. Their bogus objection delayed the grant of the DTS facility and with all the busy tower crews, they can't get it done in the 51 days they had between the time the DTS was granted on 6/12 and the 8/2 Phase 4 deadline.


----------



## Useeme1234

i can receive wedw now, wanted to know if they will be moving to wtc, as for wliw i use to be on cliff, now i dont get it any longer, they have good hd picture, unlike wedw that has 6 subs plus their main channel is 480i


----------



## KyL416

That's because in addition to spectrum sharing with WZME, WEDW is now sharing their half of the signal with 34-x WTXX-LD, once WTXX-LD is able to go back to its own signal CPTV will be HD again. (Basically WTXX-LD is moving to RF 29 on a tower closer to Hartford, but it can't do so until WUTF in Worcester moves to RF 19, so it has a STA to spectrum share with WEDW's half of the signal)

WEDW isn't moving to 1WTC. The DTS facility is for two sites, their current site at Trumbull and a secondary site at the Empire State Building. If you already get the channel 49 signal from Trumbull you're good to go. The Trumbull site is getting a boost in coverage with a non-directional pattern and will reach the bulk of southwestern Connecticut and Suffolk county. The secondary Empire State Building site is mainly for the 5 boroughs, Nassau, Westchester and Rockland counties and Northeastern NJ.


The other CP for a site in Stamford is not getting built. That's the site they would have used if their DTS application was denied. That site was also a major improvement over the Trumbull signal, although it wouldn't have reached NJ, Staten Island, Rockland county and southern LI that good.


WLIW on the otherhand is moving to 1WTC, and while it will give them greater coverage in NYC and the surrounding area, it will come at the expense of central and eastern Suffolk county and some hilly places in northwestern Suffok and northeastern Nassau county. (Even the area in the shadow of WLIW's current tower is in the red on the propogation maps)


----------



## LIantenna585

I wonder what will happen to WLIW’s tower in Plainview. I drive by it often and it will be strange to have nothing broadcasting from it after the repack!


----------



## MozzyMoz

Trip in VA said:


> Quite possibly. I've not gotten an update on WPXU-LD in some time.
> 
> 
> - Trip


I receive WPXU at my location and there is only one subchannel: 12-1 with HD (1080i, I think)


----------



## SnellKrell

LIantenna585 said:


> I wonder what will happen to WLIW’s tower in Plainview. I drive by it often and it will be strange to have nothing broadcasting from it after the repack!


Don't despair.

WLIW plans to use the Plainview tower as one of its two AUX backup
transmission points.


----------



## LIantenna585

MozzyMoz said:


> Trip in VA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quite possibly. I've not gotten an update on WPXU-LD in some time.
> 
> 
> - Trip
> 
> 
> 
> I receive WPXU at my location and there is only one subchannel: 12-1 with HD (1080i, I think)
Click to expand...

Interesting. So, I wonder what the three subchannels on RF 12 I received were — I know WNET has a CP to test on 12 but they aren’t moving until Phase 9.


----------



## KyL416

If the conditions were right, it could have been WNAC from Providence.


----------



## tld

*Totally lost 5.1 WNYW tonight*

I'm in central NJ. I noticed a recording failing on my MythTV system and discovered that I all but completely lost 5.1 WNYW tonight. Here's what I would usually get from a channel scan:



Code:


SCANNING: 653000000 (us-bcast:44)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0871
PROGRAM 3: 5.1 WNYW
PROGRAM 5: 5.2 Movies!
PROGRAM 6: 5.4 LIGHT

Tonight it can't get anything and here's what I get for a signal:


Code:


ch=8vsb:653000000 lock=8vsb ss=48 snq=42 seq=0 bps=19336928 pps=0

That's a signal strength of 48% and most notable an error quality (that seq) of 0. If I point my antenna a bit farther north it improves a little but not enough to use. Anyone else seeing this? I also tried the tuner built into my TV and that can't get it either.

EDIT: Neglected to mention that I tried all the other networks and they're essentially flawless, so my antenna seems to be fine.

Thanks!
Tom


----------



## KyL416

They're broadcasting from their West Orange auxiliary facility while they finish the work at 1WTC. The West Orange signal is weaker and highly directional, so it doesn't cover central NJ that well:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=6a8a8f2887b345249999cf6212b6c0ea&site=1&map=Y


----------



## tld

KyL416 said:


> They're broadcasting from their West Orange auxiliary facility while they finish the work at 1WTC. The West Orange signal is weaker and highly directional, so it doesn't cover central NJ that well:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=6a8a8f2887b345249999cf6212b6c0ea&site=1&map=Y


Ahhh...That would certainly explain it. I'm assuming that means it'll most likely be like this until the frequency move on 8/1(?). Thanks!

Tom


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> BTW, for those wondering why it's taking so long, blame WJLP's owners. Their bogus objection delayed the grant of the DTS facility and with all the busy tower crews, they can't get it done in the 51 days they had between the time the DTS was granted on 6/12 and the 8/2 Phase 4 deadline.


So even though WEDW filed for a 6-month extension, I guess it won't necessarily take that long for the DTS to go on air. They are probably just buying extra time to be safe so everything can be completed.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> They're broadcasting from their West Orange auxiliary facility while they finish the work at 1WTC. The West Orange signal is weaker and highly directional, so it doesn't cover central NJ that well:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=6a8a8f2887b345249999cf6212b6c0ea&site=1&map=Y


Is anyone able to confirm if this aux site is actually on the air? I live in West Orange, less than a mile from the transmitter, and I'm not picking anything up using an omnidirectional antenna.


----------



## iamnoip

tld said:


> I'm in central NJ. I noticed a recording failing on my MythTV system and discovered that I all but completely lost 5.1 WNYW tonight. Here's what I would usually get from a channel scan:/QUOTE]
> 
> another channel 5 data point...
> 
> I live on the Eastside of Manhattan and also lost channel 5 last night. fwiw, my (5yr old) Mohu antenna is in a NW facing window.
> 
> Both last night and today, I rescanned and the result was the same. "No Signal". My attempt to manually tune and add channel 5 was a complete waste of time.
> 
> Hopefully, this will get resolved sooner rather than later!
> 
> Appreciate this forum, now at least I can stop wondering if the issue was on my end.


----------



## SnellKrell

iamnoip said:


> tld said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in central NJ. I noticed a recording failing on my MythTV system and discovered that I all but completely lost 5.1 WNYW tonight. Here's what I would usually get from a channel scan:/QUOTE]
> 
> another channel 5 data point...
> 
> I live on the Eastside of Manhattan and also lost channel 5 last night. fwiw, my (5yr old) Mohu antenna is in a NW facing window.
> 
> Both last night and today, I rescanned and the result was the same. "No Signal". My attempt to manually tune and add channel 5 was a complete waste of time.
> 
> Hopefully, this will get resolved sooner rather than later!
> 
> Appreciate this forum, now at least I can stop wondering if the issue was on my end.
> 
> 
> 
> Whether WNYW is now transmitting from West Orange, NJ or at lower power from 1WTC, this
> will continue until 8/1 or 8/2. At that time, the station changes frequency to Channel 27 and
> moves to the Upper UHF Antenna on 1WTC.
Click to expand...


----------



## Useeme1234

SnellKrell said:


> iamnoip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether WNYW is now transmitting from West Orange, NJ or at lower power from 1WTC, this
> will continue until 8/1 or 8/2. At that time, the station changes frequency to Channel 27 and
> moves to the Upper UHF Antenna on 1WTC.
> 
> 
> 
> Is only 2 more weeks till august 1st so is not a real pain, I predict that changeover is
> going to be a good thing, better reception, plus getting wliw is worth it.
Click to expand...


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> SnellKrell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is only 2 more weeks till august 1st so is not a real pain, I predict that changeover is
> going to be a good thing, better reception, plus getting wliw is worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> From your mouth to Durst's ears!
Click to expand...


----------



## tld

SnellKrell said:


> iamnoip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether WNYW is now transmitting from West Orange, NJ or at lower power from 1WTC, this
> will continue until 8/1 or 8/2. At that time, the station changes frequency to Channel 27 and
> moves to the Upper UHF Antenna on 1WTC.
> 
> 
> 
> They appear to be advertising that this will take place at 1:00 PM on 8/1:
> 
> http://www.fox5ny.com/news/rescan-your-tv-to-see-fox-5
> 
> Tom
Click to expand...


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> Is anyone able to confirm if this aux site is actually on the air? I live in West Orange, less than a mile from the transmitter, and I'm not picking anything up using an omnidirectional antenna.


If the auxiliary site is on the air, the TV signal from it may be so strong, that it might be overloading the tuning chip in your television or STB. This would be especially true if you are using an amplifier. I've heard that some people just put a paper clip in their TV's RF in to get signals that strong. Of course, you can wait two weeks until this repack phase is done.


----------



## SnellKrell

Well, "Those Wonderful People from Durst" have done it again.

WNYW has filed the following with the FCC -

"Previously WNYW and sister station WWOR were both granted construction permits to utilize the same broadband antenna (RFS PEP40E) at the One World Trade location; however, it has been determined that the combined power of these two stations along with the other stations sharing the antenna would exceed its power handling capability. Therefore, it is necessary to move WNYW to the other broadband antenna (RFS PEP96L) that is just below (24.4 meters) the currently authorized antenna."

Pleased realize that when WNYW was to move from ESB to 1WTC, the station was to
have used the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40E), but Durst could not fulfill this obligation
due to a lack of power.

Therefore, WNYW on its move would have to transmit from the Lower UHF Antenna
(PEP96L) with the promise that upon the Repack, when WNYW would migrate to
Channel 27, it would use the originally intended Upper Antenna.

Once again, Durst has reneged on its contractual obligation.

Now, if that were not enough, WCBS has just informed the FCC that Durst will not
be able to complete the needed work on the Upper Antenna and its Combiner to 
allow the station to transmit on its new frequency, Channel 36 on the announced
August 1st changeover date.

Instead, WCBS will transmit from its AUX on the Lower UHF Antenna until possibly
Labor Day.

As a business person, if I dealt with Durst, first, I would pay rent and second, I'd
sue!

What's next?

Durst = Lack of Power and Gross Ineptitude.

If Durst were an electric utility company, surely it would be Con Edison!

So much for the world's most advanced broadcast facility!


----------



## speedlaw

Durst saw a unique market, and figured all they had to do was run power to the top, and collect free rents.

I doubt they envisioned "repacK"...I mean, how often historically did anyone mess with antennas ? You installed and that was it. Press the big red button, from a landlord's POV.

Here you have to coordinate many stations suddenly having to jigger all the parts, from transmitter to radiator. I would love to be a fly on the wall, however, listening to landlord masters of the universe arguing with TV station masters of the universe....


----------



## SnellKrell

speedlaw said:


> Durst saw a unique market, and figured all they had to do was run power to the top, and collect free rents.
> 
> I doubt they envisioned "repacK"...I mean, how often historically did anyone mess with antennas ? You installed and that was it. Press the big red button, from a landlord's POV.
> 
> Here you have to coordinate many stations suddenly having to jigger all the parts, from transmitter to radiator. I would love to be a fly on the wall, however, listening to landlord masters of the universe arguing with TV station masters of the universe....


In New York, managers of broadcast facilities faced the loss of the North Tower,
they also dealt with the transition to digital.

Let's not forget the oastful claims made by Durst that the 1WTC facility was 
designed to handle future technology.

They can't even professionally handle the Repack which had been known to
them for years!

UGH!


----------



## Useeme1234

Durst is milkin for all is worth.


----------



## LenL

The folks at WPIX (11.1) and WABC (7.1) are laughing their butts off! Turns out they were 100% correct to NOT move to 1WTC!



It would have been better if they all stayed at the ESB and gave DURST the finger!


Gross incompetence! 



Can't wait for the move to ATSC 3.0. What a disaster that is going to be!


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> The folks at WPIX (11.1) and WABC (7.1) are laughing their butts off! Turns out they were 100% correct to NOT move to 1WTC!


What was the purpose of any networks moving back to 1 WTC in the first place? Were they going to see a cost savings? Otherwise why not just stay put at ESB.


----------



## LenL

ansky212,


We know they were promised the latest and greatest broadcast technology. There was much hype over this. Whether they save any money or not I don't know.


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> What was the purpose of any networks moving back to 1 WTC in the first place? Were they going to see a cost savings? Otherwise why not just stay put at ESB.


I know this may not be the case for everyone, but 1WTC provides better coverage than ESB. I can get a very stable signal from 1WTC stations with a small indoor antenna. ESB stations are either intermittent or non-existent with small indoor antennas.


----------



## foxycat

Westchester County, just north of NYC.
TV is a Samsung analog
Converter box is Digital Stream 
http://www.ezdigitaltv.comDigital_STREAM_DTX9950_Manual.html
New remote is universal RCA RC003RWDE
I get my OTA on Channel 3, then used the old remote to control the converter box.

PROBLEM--The old remote wore out, doesn't do anything.This week I bought the universal remote listed above.

ISSUES:

1.The manual of the remote tells how to program it for various combos of TV +DVD, VCR, streaming, but nothing about a converter box. I don't use any of the other devices.

2.It's on my usual OTA station 3, on which I have only my channel 13 PBS station, none others. It was on 13 when the old remote died. 
But the converter box manual does say I CAN use a universal remote.

3 I can get the menu using either the TV buttons or the remote button. I can adjust the picture and the volume, turn TV on and off, nothing else.. Arrow keys don't work, number keys don't work

4. So I can't scan stations to install them.

5. I get distorted pictures or snow on other stations, but not the pixelated screens you get when there's poor reception or the "No Signal." message..

6. Last task before old remote died was a volume adjustment, and the progress bar is still on my TV screen.

My conclusion--remote must be programmed to work with the converter box, even against its will ;-)


----------



## CopRock

KyL416 said:


> They're broadcasting from their West Orange auxiliary facility while they finish the work at 1WTC. The West Orange signal is weaker and highly directional, so it doesn't cover central NJ that well:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=6a8a8f2887b345249999cf6212b6c0ea&site=1&map=Y


Thanks for the info, was wondering why it vanished [zip 10003, 2nd floor above ground facing south with an antenna on the window] 
Silly move by FOX since Aug 1st is almost 2 weeks away, wonder is ESB might have been a better choice ??


----------



## SnellKrell

CopRock said:


> Thanks for the info, was wondering why it vanished [zip 10003, 2nd floor above ground facing south with an antenna on the window]
> Silly move by FOX since Aug 1st is almost 2 weeks away, wonder is ESB might have been a better choice ??


I'm sure this wasn't Fox's idea. Why would WNYW want to lose audience?

I'd bet anything that the reason that WNYW had to make the change was that Durst
could not accommodate the electrical power requirements of yet another station continuing
operation and at the same time testing new equipment, and/or modifying current components.

WNYW transmitting from ESB was never a choice.

A station can't blithely say there's a transmission facility, I think I'll use it.

Fox no longer rents space at ESB to house tons of transmission equipment and it no 
longer rents an antenna on the building. 

This unfortunate situation has been precipitated by the world's most modern broadcasting
facility not being able to cope with the Repack!


----------



## SnellKrell

And the expectation, come August 1st, there'd be a bright new world out there, fuhgettaboutit!

The following was filed by WPXN with the FCC, read it and weep -

"Due to the power handling capabilities of the second combiner system to be
shared, it is necessary for WPXN-TV, and all UHF broadcasters co-located at the One
World Trade Center (“1WTC”), to operate at reduced power while the first combiner
system is being modified during the post-repack transition. To facilitate these
construction efforts, ION seeks STA for WPXN-TV to operate at a reduced effective
radiated power on its post-auction channel, Channel 34, until the 1WTC post-auction
facility is complete. Upon completion, broadcast operations will be split between the two
combiner systems and return to full power operations."

All UHF broadcasters co-located at 1WTC
to operate at reduced power."

WCBS had already mentioned that it hoped to be back at full power by Labor Day.

Don't hold your breath!!!!!


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> And the expectation, come August 1st, there'd be a bright new world out there, fuhgettaboutit!
> 
> The following was filed by WPXN with the FCC, read it and weep -
> 
> "Due to the power handling capabilities of the second combiner system to be
> shared, it is necessary for WPXN-TV, and all UHF broadcasters co-located at the One
> World Trade Center (“1WTC”), to operate at reduced power while the first combiner
> system is being modified during the post-repack transition. To facilitate these
> construction efforts, ION seeks STA for WPXN-TV to operate at a reduced effective
> radiated power on its post-auction channel, Channel 34, until the 1WTC post-auction
> facility is complete. Upon completion, broadcast operations will be split between the two
> combiner systems and return to full power operations."
> 
> All UHF broadcasters co-located at 1WTC
> to operate at reduced power."
> 
> WCBS had already mentioned that it hoped to be back at full power by Labor Day.
> 
> Don't hold your breath!!!!!


I'am amazed that the Durst Organization can get away with this nonsense. Someone should be overseeing this and go after them for total incompetence. Who knows how long that the stations will run at reduced power with Durst track record so far.


----------



## NYC

foxycat said:


> Westchester County, just north of NYC.
> TV is a Samsung analog
> Converter box is Digital Stream
> http://www.ezdigitaltv.comDigital_STREAM_DTX9950_Manual.html


Try using code 2303. Also, you did not mention batteries, but I assume you replaced them.

I have a Digital Stream converter box from Radio Shack and I am able to control the box with these remotes and codes:

Universal Zenith 3 in 1, ZEN350B, use code 358, [email protected]
Universal Replacement 3 by Philips, use code 0765, support phone 919-573-7854

If those don't work or can't find them, try to look for a code search feature on your remote, where various codes are attempted. You will need to keep pressing a button to indicate the current code did nothing and to move on to the next code. Also, try to use codes listed under cable or satellite, that is what worked for me, after all, it is a converter box. Hope that helps.


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

Hey ansky212,


ansky212 said:


> What was the purpose of any networks moving back to 1 WTC in the first place? Were they going to see a cost savings? Otherwise why not just stay put at ESB.


Because as Hudson Yards continues to rise, the potential for obstruction of RF signals transmitting east of the site beyond Manhattan's West Side grows. This coupled with the NAB's giveback of upper UHF frequencies above RF 36 means that signal penetration from the Empire State Building post-repack may prove problematic for many viewers in New Jersey's most populous counties including southern Bergen, northern Hudson, Essex, and Passaic. There are many lower income residents within some of these communities who rely on OTA, and they, along with many other area residents, would be disenfranchised should the signals be obstructed.

For the moment, 1 WTC is the only structure within Manhattan that will remain unobstructed within a full 360° radius.



LenL said:


> ansky212,
> 
> 
> We know they were promised the latest and greatest broadcast technology. There was much hype over this. Whether they save any money or not I don't know.


I doubt there is a monetary advantage. If anything, the necessity for engineering studies and the resulting need for DTS and translators has INCREASED the costs for broadcasters. The Metropolitan Television Alliance should really do more to assist the New York City television broadcasters then get super-excited over boastful glossy promises made by a shady landlord.


----------



## speedlaw

SnellKrell said:


> And the expectation, come August 1st, there'd be a bright new world out there, fuhgettaboutit!
> 
> The following was filed by WPXN with the FCC, read it and weep -
> 
> "Due to the power handling capabilities of the second combiner system to be
> shared, it is necessary for WPXN-TV, and all UHF broadcasters co-located at the One
> World Trade Center (“1WTC”), to operate at reduced power while the first combiner
> system is being modified during the post-repack transition. To facilitate these
> construction efforts, ION seeks STA for WPXN-TV to operate at a reduced effective
> radiated power on its post-auction channel, Channel 34, until the 1WTC post-auction
> facility is complete. Upon completion, broadcast operations will be split between the two
> combiner systems and return to full power operations."
> 
> All UHF broadcasters co-located at 1WTC
> to operate at reduced power."
> 
> WCBS had already mentioned that it hoped to be back at full power by Labor Day.
> 
> Don't hold your breath!!!!!


So there are two antennas. The top one is still not ready, so everyone is on the lower antenna ? It must be an amazing design to be broad banded enough to transmit everything, even if they all have to cut back to accomodate the maximum capacity of the antenna.

I can't imagine that there is much difference between upper and lower as far as range...they both live atop 1 WTC.

Anyone have an idea what "reduced" means...5% ? 10 % ? transmitting with a used CB radio linear ? (just kidding)

Are there range maps/contours available anywhere showing the range differences, or it is an open ended permission for engineers to turn power up and down at will ?


----------



## KyL416

Check Rabbitears they have contours for all the construction permits and STA applications

WPXN:
Construction Permit contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916245947c016262a9ed4b3ad4&site=1&map=Y
Reduced Power STA Contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916bfcd761016c01b82c3c07d4&site=1&map=Y

WCBS:
Construction Permit contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff35f0d902f015f2bcaa68c22a3&site=1&map=Y
Reduced Power STA contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916bb4b69c016bd7c7029b1ed5&site=1&map=Y

WLIW:
Construction Permit contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916b249e81016b47d43f6025b7&site=1&map=Y
Reduced Power STA contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff36bd8cddf016bfc05464838d5&site=1&map=Y


WNJU/WNBC hasn't filed for anything yet, while WNYW had to file to change their final construction permit because of the Durst mess.


----------



## nyctveng

CopRock said:


> Thanks for the info, was wondering why it vanished [zip 10003, 2nd floor above ground facing south with an antenna on the window]
> Silly move by FOX since Aug 1st is almost 2 weeks away, wonder is ESB might have been a better choice ??


Do you think stations like FOX make "silly moves" if they didn't have to? Trust me, all the major stations in the city have the engineers that know what they are doing.


----------



## LenL

I really don't think the station engineers are calling the shots. They are not high up on the decision making line from what I see in terms of actual results. If they are then heaven help us!


----------



## CopRock

nyctveng said:


> Do you think stations like FOX make "silly moves" if they didn't have to? Trust me, all the major stations in the city have the engineers that know what they are doing.


If they knew what they were doing I and many others would be able to tune to 5.1 and see video as we did prior to two weeks ago


----------



## nyctveng

CopRock said:


> If they knew what they were doing I and many others would be able to tune to 5.1 and see video as we did prior to two weeks ago


Just because you and others lost signal for a short period of time does not mean stations don't know what they're doing. Short term pain for long term gain. You will likely get FOX back after the repack, if not then no later than the start of the Fall TV season. Sorry but the work involved and the world does not revolve around just you. There are factors outside of the stations' control like those summarized nicely by SnellKrell.


----------



## trailblazer

CopRock said:


> If they knew what they were doing I and many others would be able to tune to 5.1 and see video as we did prior to two weeks ago


Since the repack testing began I have nothing but problems with WNBC/Telemundo channels 4 and 47 whereby I can't get a stable signal to lock in. Hopefully once they move to the new frequency this issue will go away


----------



## Useeme1234

I think there is fox5 app so you don`t need to miss out on your favorite shows, I can wait till 2nd of August, what I like to see is wliw on freedom tower which is being delayed till they built out, which should be sometime this year.


----------



## Useeme1234

trailblazer said:


> Since the repack testing began I have nothing but problems with WNBC/Telemundo channels 4 and 47 whereby I can't get a stable signal to lock in. Hopefully once they move to the new frequency this issue will go away


Last night nbc signal was lost, I did rescan I got wvit ch30 from Ct instead


----------



## darkegg

Useeme1234 said:


> I think there is fox5 app so you don`t need to miss out on your favorite shows, I can wait till 2nd of August, what I like to see is wliw on freedom tower which is being delayed till they built out, which should be sometime this year.


WLIW is already doing tests at 1WTC. You can see the two spikes in RF 32 when WLIW is being broadcasted from 1WTC here: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/render_graph/1062B171/tuner1/32/-14days/now
WLIW will switch to RF 32 (at 1WTC) on Aug 1st. I'm not aware of any delays.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> I think there is fox5 app so you don`t need to miss out on your favorite shows, I can wait till 2nd of August, what I like to see is wliw on freedom tower which is being delayed till they built out, which should be sometime this year.


From what I've been able to glean, WLIW's move to 1WTC is still scheduled
for 1 p.m. on August 1st.

The only things that have changed are -

Durst being unable to fulfill its original placement of WLIW main transmission
location on PEP40, the Upper UHF Antenna. Main transmission will emanate from
PEP96, the Lower UHF Antenna and the Upper will be used for Auxiliary transmission.

The next Durst screw up is that a Combiner will have to retuned, not in time for the 
magic Phase 4 date of August 2nd. Therefore, WLIW will have to operate from its brand,
spankin' new facility at reduced power.

Durst, you've done it again!


----------



## foxycat

NYC said:


> Try using code 2303. Also, you did not mention batteries, but I assume you replaced them.
> 
> I have a Digital Stream converter box from Radio Shack and I am able to control the box with these remotes and codes:
> 
> Universal Zenith 3 in 1, ZEN350B, use code 358, [email protected]
> Universal Replacement 3 by Philips, use code 0765, support phone 919-573-7854
> 
> If those don't work or can't find them, try to look for a code search feature on your remote, where various codes are attempted. You will need to keep pressing a button to indicate the current code did nothing and to move on to the next code. Also, try to use codes listed under cable or satellite, that is what worked for me, after all, it is a converter box. Hope that helps.



Yes, they're new batteries, and the TV turns on and off just fine. 
There's no button for a converter box among the devices on the remote. (makes sense to me, we have probably the only 2 boxes in the US) Tried the cable button, but the Power key doesn't stay on. It blinks 4x and turns off. Maybe this remote is too new. It's an RCA, BTW. 

My PBS station, the only station, quit over the weekend. One thing about having no TV is that I go to bed earlier and get up earlier.

Update--just bought a copy of the original remote from Ebay.


----------



## Useeme1234

Thanks for the update on wliw, I saw that cptv has renamed their bridgeport station wedw to Stamford


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> Thanks for the update on wliw, I saw that cptv has renamed their bridgeport station wedw to Stamford


What they did was they changed their city of license from Bridgeport to Stamford. The purpose of doing this was so they could get their DTS application approved. Once the DTS goes live later this year they will have coverage throughout Fairfield County, Westchester, NYC, and northern NJ. Obviously this greatly expands the current coverage area of WEDW.


----------



## speedlaw

*after checking the contours...*



KyL416 said:


> Check Rabbitears they have contours for all the construction permits and STA applications
> 
> WPXN:
> Construction Permit contour:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916245947c016262a9ed4b3ad4&site=1&map=Y
> Reduced Power STA Contour:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916bfcd761016c01b82c3c07d4&site=1&map=Y
> 
> WCBS:
> Construction Permit contour:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff35f0d902f015f2bcaa68c22a3&site=1&map=Y
> Reduced Power STA contour:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916bb4b69c016bd7c7029b1ed5&site=1&map=Y
> 
> WLIW:
> Construction Permit contour:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916b249e81016b47d43f6025b7&site=1&map=Y
> Reduced Power STA contour:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff36bd8cddf016bfc05464838d5&site=1&map=Y
> 
> 
> WNJU/WNBC hasn't filed for anything yet, while WNYW had to file to change their final construction permit because of the Durst mess.


Amazing. It's almost like they don't really care about the OTA viewer. I find myself on a hill, and it remains green pretty much in all the models...Yet, channel 5 has gone missing here 40 miles up the Hudson. I'm not a Fox viewer, so don't care (save The Orville) but previously it was one of the strongest signals from the NYC area.

Hope I get WLIW-Motorweek isn't carried on 13, and 50.1 NJN is hit or miss.


----------



## KyL416

Here's the contour for WWOR/WRNN's STA that they filed for yesterday:
Licensed contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff3633cf6a601634b0cfd4c1d20&site=1&map=Y
Reduced Power STA contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff36bfcd953016c055538d605e6&site=1&map=Y


Nothing filed for WNJU/WNBC yet, although it's possible they could temporarily relocate to their Aux facility at 4 Times Square:
Construction Permit contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff362bbf2a10162d9e74d693df7&site=1&map=Y
4 Times Square Contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f9168a5f69c0168c3d5be79217d&site=1&map=Y


----------



## ansky212

I ran a channel scan this morning and I'm picking up a new channel on 6-1 which has the ID of WNWT-WX. They appear to be running the same weather programming as WJLP 33-10. Anybody know what WNWT is? I don't see them listed on RabbitEars.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> I ran a channel scan this morning and I'm picking up a new channel on 6-1 which has the ID of WNWT-WX. They appear to be running the same weather programming as WJLP 33-10. Anybody know what WNWT is? I don't see them listed on RabbitEars.


After seeing this, I did a scan - and there is was.

Although not listed as Display 6.1, it's a "Guest" channel hosted by WJLP. Here's the listing on Rabbitears -


51	3 (G)	WNWT-LD	NEW YORK	NY	On the air IND

Display
Channel	Physical
Channel	Video	Audio	Call Sign Network/Programming Nickname	Notes Print
51-1 3.1 480i (w) DD2.0 BuenaTV	NewsNet (Soon) 
51-2 3.2 480i (w) DD2.0 LATV	LATV 
51-3 3.3 480i DD2.0 CTVN	Cornerstone 
51-4 3.4 480i (w) DD2.0 WBQM-4	Spanish Independent	"Teleuniverso"


----------



## Trip in VA

I've updated the WNWT-LD listing to mirror WJLP for the time being. I'll update it more later.


- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Does anyone know if WLNY completed their move yesterday? They were supposed to move to their new channel assignment at 1pm on 7/24. I'm not picking anything up on RF27 or RF29, but my signal from WLNY is not always very reliable so I can't tell for sure.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Does anyone know if WLNY completed their move yesterday? They were supposed to move to their new channel assignment at 1pm on 7/24. I'm not picking anything up on RF27 or RF29, but my signal from WLNY is not always very reliable so I can't tell for sure.


My reception of WLNY on RF27 is not consistent. Currently, I'm not receiving the station.

It's new frequency, Channel 29 is still being occupied by WNYN-LD.

Just went to WLNY's website, and strangely, the only rescan mentioned was the last one -
June 2018!

So much for the communications expertise of CBS.

Are you sure you saw today's date for WLNY's changeover?

Everyone else (with the exception of WNET) has set 1 p.m. on August 1st as _the_ time
and date.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Are you sure you saw today's date for WLNY's changeover?
> 
> Everyone else (with the exception of WNET) has set 1 p.m. on August 1st as _the_ time
> and date.


I was watching WLNY about a week ago and they had a crawl at the bottom of the screen that said July 24th at 1pm for the changeover. I don't watch WLNY that much so I don't know if that has since changed.


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> I was watching WLNY about a week ago and they had a crawl at the bottom of the screen that said July 24th at 1pm for the changeover. I don't watch WLNY that much so I don't know if that has since changed.


WLNY has switched to RF channel 29. Unfortunately, when WPXU-LD switches to RF 29, everybody from NYC to the west can say goodbye to WLNY. Sorry ansky212.


----------



## ansky212

Brian in CT said:


> WLNY has switched to RF channel 29. Unfortunately, when WPXU-LD switches to RF 29, everybody from NYC to the west can say goodbye to WLNY. Sorry ansky212.


No biggie. The only thing I ever watched on WLNY was the occasional 9pm newscast. I have not been able to pick up anything on RF29 last night or today. Perhaps the new frequency is underperforming compared to their old one.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> No biggie. The only thing I ever watched on WLNY was the occasional 9pm newscast. I have not been able to pick up anything on RF29 last night or today. Perhaps the new frequency is underperforming compared to their old one.


Beyond other stations transmitting on Channel 29, difficulty for some trying view WLNY might 
very well be due to the station using its AUX antenna as it does work on its Main.

The AUX antenna only transmits an ERP of 139 kW, while the Main is authorized at 1000 kW.

There may he hope for viewers trying to view WLNY who live farther east from New York City.

Here is the station's May 2019 filing with the FCC concerning the above. Don't know how much
is still applicable.


"The antenna will operate with a maximum horizontally‐polarized effective radiated power (ERP) of 139 kW
and a vertically polarized ERP of 59.6 kW. The antenna will be required briefly on August 2, 2019 to permit 
reconfiguration of the primary antenna system as part of the DTV repack."


----------



## NYC

ansky212 said:


> I ran a channel scan this morning and I'm picking up a new channel on 6-1 which has the ID of WNWT-WX. They appear to be running the same weather programming as WJLP 33-10. Anybody know what WNWT is? I don't see them listed on RabbitEars.


I now have that channel, however I am getting it as 18.1. 

I also noticed another new channel, 2.3 DABL. It appears that CBS is launching a lifestyle channel on September 9. Odd that they did not carry Decades (soon to appear on a Fox station in NYC, from what I read), but will add DABL.

Also noticed that Arirang on 48.3 has been off for a while, and there is an SD version of whatever airs on 48.1 on 48.3.


----------



## LIantenna585

I live in Suffolk County so normally I have no problem at all getting WLNY. Last night I rescanned and didn’t pick up any signal from WLNY on channels 27 or 29.


----------



## KyL416

NYC said:


> I also noticed another new channel, 2.3 DABL. It appears that CBS is launching a lifestyle channel on September 9. Odd that they did not carry Decades (soon to appear on a Fox station in NYC, from what I read), but will add DABL.


WCBS did carry Decades on 2-2, but like all the other CBS owned stations, they replaced it with StartTV last year.


----------



## falltime

*Pix11*

Sorry if this has been asked/answered but cant find anything recent. What is story with WPIX. I barely get a signal anymore (Central Brooklyn) - used to be reasonably strong but now weak to the point of useless. Is this me or has something changed


----------



## SnellKrell

falltime said:


> Sorry if this has been asked/answered but cant find anything recent. What is story with WPIX. I barely get a signal anymore (Central Brooklyn) - used to be reasonably strong but now weak to the point of useless. Is this me or has something changed


Just checked things out and nothing appears to have changed concerning
WPIX's transmission. The Richmond Hill, Live Bandscan shows a strong,
consistent signal for the past week.


----------



## falltime

SnellKrell said:


> Just checked things out and nothing appears to have changed concerning
> WPIX's transmission. The Richmond Hill, Live Bandscan shows a strong,
> consistent signal for the past week.


Probably a stupid question but it looks like it comes from WTC - why would all other stations from WTC (for ex. WCBS, WWOR) come in strong and WPIX is weak to non-existent.


----------



## KyL416

WPIX is from Empire. It's also a VHF station, so you might want to check if any of your VHF elements were damaged in one of the recent storms.


----------



## KEVINL71

I doubt it has to do with broadcasting, but I don't seem to remember that white circle thingy with the vertical slits below the spire before.









This was how the spire area looked, back on April 15, 2015:










As for 4 Times Square, I'm certain it's at left here. Is the other spire to the right used for anything?


----------



## SnellKrell

KEVINL71 said:


> I doubt it has to do with broadcasting, but I don't seem to remember that white circle thingy with the vertical slits below the spire before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was how the spire area looked, back on April 15, 2015:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for 4 Times Square, I'm certain it's at left here. Is the other spire to the right used for anything?


First, the wrapping you see below the Antenna Mast on the ESB allows work
to be done on the 102nd Floor Observation facility. The work will remodel the
area, specifically enlarging the windows - the new ones will be much higher
to allow better views.

Next, the other pictures are not of 4TS, their masts are merely ornamental.

Here is a link to the 4TS antenna -

https://www.google.com/search?q=fou...KHaq3B7kQ9QEwAnoECAkQCQ#imgrc=JeZnxHQpzNH72M:


----------



## KyL416

4 Times Square is the building with NASDAQ on the ground floor. Unless they changed the mast recently I don't think either one of those are them.

I did a quick check of sites and I don't see anything listed as broadcasting from those other towers. Outside of 1WTC, ESB and 4 Times Square, there's WKOB who transmits from the Trump tower and WPXU and W41DO who broadcast from the Bloomberg Tower, along with a bunch of LP stations like WYXN, WXNY and WNYX who transmit from Long Island City in Queens.


----------



## KEVINL71

Thanks for the correction on 4 Times Square! I have been by there before. I just wasn't east of Madison Square Garden/Penn Station on the weekend visit. I spent most of my time by the Hudson Yards and walked some of The High Line. I knew I'd get a good view of NJ from there, but only the helix with NJ Route 495 and the Lincoln Tunnel area in Weehawken, NJ. The Alpine tower is north of the G.W. Bridge, so I knew I wouldn't see it from Hudson Yards.


----------



## MozzyMoz

I don't know if it is an act of nature, or if engineers are doing serious work at 1WTC, but I noticed some pixelation from WPIX and WNET. 
Also, my reception of WEDW and WNJB have been affected. 
Since the move to West Orange, I am not getting WNYW at all, tho being Fox, I don't really miss them.
As we approach the day of radiofrequency musical chairs, I am beginning to think that there will be more unexpected changes in reception. I am in an unimpeded LOS towards 1WTC, but still, some stations get lost. I have no doubts in my mind that the kind of work to get the antennas ready there involve at least some kind of temporary power losses or reductions.


----------



## SnellKrell

MozzyMoz said:


> I don't know if it is an act of nature, or if engineers are doing serious work at 1WTC, but I noticed some pixelation from WPIX and WNET.
> Also, my reception of WEDW and WNJB have been affected.
> Since the move to West Orange, I am not getting WNYW at all, tho being Fox, I don't really miss them.
> As we approach the day of radiofrequency musical chairs, I am beginning to think that there will be more unexpected changes in reception. I am in an unimpeded LOS towards 1WTC, but still, some stations get lost. I have no doubts in my mind that the kind of work to get the antennas ready there involve at least some kind of temporary power losses or reductions.


Yes, there's a lot of work going on at 1WTC in anticipation of the Repack's Phase 4.

In fact, work will continue past the magic August 2nd date.

This work, though, is not affecting your reception of WPIX since that station transmits
from ESB.

If you'd like, try punching up RF27 to see WNYW from 1WTC!


----------



## KyL416

WEDW and WNJB shouldn't be affected by work at 1WTC either. WEDW is still broadcasting from their Connecticut site and didn't build out their DTS site from Empire yet, while WNJB broadcasts from Warrenville, NJ.


----------



## MozzyMoz

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, there's a lot of work going on at 1WTC in anticipation of the Repack's Phase 4.
> If you'd like, try punching up RF27 to see WNYW from 1WTC!


1. Not at home rn.
2. Thursday and the days before Labor Day will be very funny.
3. I am afraid I will have to buy a preamp just to get better reception of WNJB and WEDW (if it ever arrives at my place on RF 21).
4. I hope CPTV goes at least 720p after 8/1. I have seen the WTXX crawl about rescanning on 8/1.


----------



## Brian in CT

falltime said:


> Probably a stupid question but it looks like it comes from WTC - why would all other stations from WTC (for ex. WCBS, WWOR) come in strong and WPIX is weak to non-existent.


It could be some gizmo, that you or a close by neighbor have running, that is interfering with the channel 11 signal. Did you buy anything for the house/apartment that could be leaking RF?


----------



## NYC

Channel 5 is back. 

NewsNet moved from 33.6 to 33.8 and also to 18.1 with WX sliding over to 18.2.

Also, when I mentioned DABL, I meant that I thought it odd that CBS did not keep Decades where it was, particularly now that they have added a spot for another network.


----------



## LenL

MozzyMoz,


As others have said there is NOTHING going on in NYC that should impact the WNJB 8.1 signal coming from Warrenville NJ. I am an avid WNJB viewer and from my location I had to build a 4 element dipole VHF antenna and point it at Warrenville to receive WNJB. Now I get it just fine.


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> Channel 5 is back.


Yes WNYW came back yesterday on RF 27. I was also getting WPXN on their new frequency (RF 34) last night, but seems to be off this morning.


----------



## KyL416

WPXN is still in overnight testing mode, they can't go live 24/7 on RF 34 until August 1st when WCAU moves in Philly.


----------



## SnellKrell

KyL416 said:


> WPXN is still in overnight testing mode, they can't go live 24/7 on RF 34 until August 1st when WCAU moves in Philly.


In coordination with WCAU in Philadelphia, WPXN can only test the use of Chanel 34
between post-midnight and 5 a.m.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> In coordination with WCAU in Philadelphia, WPXN can only test the use of Chanel 34
> between post-midnight and 5 a.m.


Apparently they are not following the rules then. I picked them up on RF 34 when I did a channel scan around 9pm last night. I only checked once so I don't know how long they were on the air.


----------



## KEVINL71

MozzyMoz said:


> 4. I hope CPTV goes at least 720p after 8/1. I have seen the WTXX crawl about rescanning on 8/1.



I think you mean WCCT-TV (CW) channel 20 of Waterbury? They transmit from the WTIC-TV (FOX) tower on Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT. I think the WTXX call letters may belong to a low-power digital station in greater Hartford.


----------



## KyL416

No, they're referring to 34-x WTXX-LD, the Azteca station currently spectrum sharing with WEDW as part of a STA until they are able to move to their own signal on RF 29, which they can't do until WUTF in Worcester moves to RF 19. Because of that CPTV is currently SD only on WEDW's signal.


----------



## SnellKrell

KEVINL71 said:


> I think you mean WCCT-TV (CW) channel 20 of Waterbury? They transmit from the WTIC-TV (FOX) tower on Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT. I think the WTXX call letters may belong to a low-power digital station in greater Hartford.


Yes, here it is -

34	49 → 29	WTXX-LD	SPRINGFIELD	MA	On the air 
Display
Channel	Physical
Channel	Video	Audio	Call Sign Network/Programming Nickname	Notes Print
34-1 49.257	DD2.0	ITV Azteca America 
34-2 49.258 Infomercials 
34-3 49.259 Infomercials


----------



## KyL416

That's the outdated info from when WTXX-LD still had a standalone signal, you need to look at the entries for WEDW or WZME to see their current RF 49 PIDs and bitrates:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=13594#station

Since the spectrum sharing is only a STA and not permanent, RabbitEars needed to keep that WTXX-LD entry seperate instead of merging it with WEDW's entry like WZME's.


As for why CPTV had to dip to SD and not WZME, even though more people probably care about having CPTV in HD instead of SBN, it's because WTXX's spectrum sharing STA is with WEDW. So CPTV still needs to honor the terms of the original channel sharing agreement and preserve WZME's slice of the bandwidth, and unless WZME agreed to an exception, they get to stay HD and keep their secondary subchannel. And what makes it even more complicated is SBN is usually a pay to play affiliation so even if WZME wanted to, they probably couldn't agree to temporarily dip down to SD in favor of CPTV. The same with WTXX's brokered/infomercial subchannels that had to be included as part of the share instead of only including the main Azteca channel.


----------



## speedlaw

*and 13 now too*

first 5 went.
now 13 is gone. Not as gone, but it has gone from lock at the lower end of my received stations to occasional frame and pixels.

Assuming it is related to tower scramble.


----------



## ansky212

speedlaw said:


> first 5 went.
> now 13 is gone. Not as gone, but it has gone from lock at the lower end of my received stations to occasional frame and pixels.
> 
> Assuming it is related to tower scramble.


I'm showing them at 100% signal strength from my location, but I'm also noticing pixelation. So whatever may be going on does not appear to be related to signal strength.


----------



## MozzyMoz

LenL said:


> MozzyMoz,
> 
> 
> As others have said there is NOTHING going on in NYC that should impact the WNJB 8.1 signal coming from Warrenville NJ. I am an avid WNJB viewer and from my location I had to build a 4 element dipole VHF antenna and point it at Warrenville to receive WNJB. Now I get it just fine.


*I am pretty aware that WNJB is not coming from 1WTC*, it's just that all this pixelation coincided in time. That's the reason I was considering the preamp to improve my reception of WNJB (but reading from your experience, I am afraid it will not suffice :frown::frown: ).

BTW, early this afternoon I noticed that WMBQ and WNDT have been deleted from the WNET signal. Only 13-1 and 13-2 are operating.

About WTXX, as mentioned somewhere before, it is a case of a temporary STA. WTXX is sharing (or better said, occupying) half the spectrum from WEDW. I hope the station in CT moves on 8/1 so WTXX gets off of the WEDW spectrum.


----------



## Packeteers

WNYW is finally back in NYC zip 11375
5.1 WNYW (HD)
5.2 Movies!
5.4 LIGHT (intermittent reception)
we had no Fox here since 07/14/2019 

fingers crossed we get pbs on 21 soon
thanks everyone who keeps this thread
updated - misery loves company.


----------



## General Custer

I’ve lost WNBC over the past two days. Showing 100% signal strength but 0% signal quality. It’s odd since I never had an issue with this before. Always had an issue with WCBS before but it’s been 100/100 for the past few weeks. I’m in east Setauket near the Long Island sound in Suffolk county. I guess we’ll see what happens tomorrow afternoon after all the scrambling is done.


----------



## SnellKrell

General Custer said:


> I’ve lost WNBC over the past two days. Showing 100% signal strength but 0% signal quality. It’s odd since I never had an issue with this before. Always had an issue with WCBS before but it’s been 100/100 for the past few weeks. I’m in east Setauket near the Long Island sound in Suffolk county. I guess we’ll see what happens tomorrow afternoon after all the scrambling is done.


All of the UHF stations transmitting from 1WTC have had to decrease their power
while Durst tries to re-tune Combiners.

Some have even had to move from the Upper UHF Antenna to the Lower one.

Additionally, viewers have experienced problems receiving WNET - it appears
that yesterday, the station attenuated power.

The "hope" is that stations will resume full-power transmission by Labor Day.

With Durst in charge, your guess is as good as mine. Don't hold your breath!


----------



## General Custer

SnellKrell said:


> All of the UHF stations transmitting from 1WTC have had to decrease their power
> while Durst tries to re-tune Combiners.
> 
> Some have even had to move from the Upper UHF Antenna to the Lower one.
> 
> Additionally, viewers have experienced problems receiving WNET - it appears
> that yesterday, the station attenuated power.
> 
> The "hope" is that stations will resume full-power transmission by Labor Day.
> 
> With Durst in charge, your guess is as good as mine. Don't hold your breath!


WNBC seems to be back up again for me. Rollercoaster!


----------



## Giacomo Siffredi

From NE Bergen County, NJ., I currently hold a pair of WNBCs, a pair of WNYWs, a pair of NewsNets, and a pair of WJLP/WNWT-CD Maritime Weathers. Looks like a great hand to me, what do I win?


----------



## General Custer

Gone Again!


----------



## KyL416

General Custer said:


> I’ve lost WNBC over the past two days. Showing 100% signal strength but 0% signal quality. It’s odd since I never had an issue with this before.


WFSB already made their move to RF 36, which is why you lost WNBC two days ago. You are getting a strong signal on RF 36, but unfortunately it's WNJU/WNBC and the new WFSB signal from across the sound interfering with eachother. You should get WNBC back when they move to RF 35 tommorow.



General Custer said:


> Always had an issue with WCBS before but it’s been 100/100 for the past few weeks. I’m in east Setauket near the Long Island sound in Suffolk county. I guess we’ll see what happens tomorrow afternoon after all the scrambling is done.


It's because WFSB at RF 33 has been at a reduced power in prep for their move...which unfortunately is also to RF 36, so don't get used to it. You should be able to get their digital replacement translator on RF 22 from WLNY's tower, although I'm not sure if it's currently on the air since it has a pending application to slightly reduce their power to avoid interference with WDVB-CD's post-repack signal.


----------



## trailblazer

General Custer said:


> I’ve lost WNBC over the past two days. Showing 100% signal strength but 0% signal quality. It’s odd since I never had an issue with this before. Always had an issue with WCBS before but it’s been 100/100 for the past few weeks. I’m in east Setauket near the Long Island sound in Suffolk county. I guess we’ll see what happens tomorrow afternoon after all the scrambling is done.


I have been losing WNBC/WNJU (RF 36) every night around 8 pm since they begun testing for the changeover. I get a signal all day long than prime time I lose it completely. The next morning the signal is back.


----------



## General Custer

KyL416 said:


> WFSB already made their move to RF 36, which is why you lost WNBC two days ago. You are getting a strong signal on RF 36, but unfortunately it's WNJU/WNBC and the new WFSB signal from across the sound interfering with eachother. You should get WNBC back when they move to RF 35 tommorow.
> 
> 
> It's because WFSB at RF 33 has been at a reduced power in prep for their move...which unfortunately is also to RF 36, so don't get used to it. You should be able to get their digital replacement translator on RF 22 from WLNY's tower, although I'm not sure if it's currently on the air since it has a pending application to slightly reduce their power to avoid interference with WDVB-CD's post-repack signal.


Wonderful. I just love the fact that the Connecticut cbs messes up ny cbs because it’s on the same frequency


----------



## ALP

What is going on at WCBS (Channel 2.1)? They have been telling us on their broadcast that we have to rescan on August 1 because they are switching frequencies. So I woke up this morning and Channel 2.1 still works works with no rescan. What's going on?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> What is going on at WCBS (Channel 2.1)? They have been telling us on their broadcast that we have to rescan on August 1 because they are switching frequencies. So I woke up this morning and Channel 2.1 still works works with no rescan. What's going on?


Changeover is scheduled for 1 p.m. this afternoon.


----------



## LenL

I just went to their (CBS) website and they say nothing about it. Only concern they show is their issue with Direct TV. They don't really care about OTA.


Is there anywhere we can see the repack schedule for the NYC area stations? TRIP'S website shows maps and what the repack channel changes are but there does not seem to be a list of the stations with their dates for the change. It would seem a simple list is all we need.


----------



## Trip in VA

Everyone but WNET goes today at 1PM.


- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Everyone but WNET goes today at 1PM.
> 
> 
> - Trip


And WNYW already made the switch on 7/29.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> And WNYW already made the switch on 7/29.


WNYW is testing on channel 27. The channel 44 signal remains operational. 

They switch at 1PM, like everyone else.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> WNYW is testing on channel 27. The channel 44 signal remains operational.
> 
> They switch at 1PM, like everyone else.
> 
> - Trip


Call it what you want, I've been watching them on RF 27 since Monday.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Call it what you want, I've been watching them on RF 27 since Monday.


I want to call it a simulcast, not a switch!


----------



## Useeme1234

Holy crap, I lost lot of channels


----------



## General Custer

CBS is gone for me. Nothing on RF 36


----------



## Trip in VA

Can anyone confirm whether or not WDVB-CD made the transition? 

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

General Custer said:


> CBS is gone for me. Nothing on RF 36


I'm getting WCBS at 100% signal strength on RF36 from NJ.

I can confirm the following moves: 
WCBS
WNBC
WNYW
WPXN
WLIW
WXTV
WFUT


----------



## General Custer

So it looks like the Connecticut interference which used to cut my signal quality to 65% on 33 now has cut it to 0 on 36. Wonderful


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Can anyone confirm whether or not WDVB-CD made the transition?
> 
> - Trip


I was never able to pull them in but according to their new coverage map I should be able to get them. Since I can't pick them up my guess is that they have not moved yet.
I can confirm the following moves: 
WCBS
WNBC
WNYW
WPXN
WLIW
WXTV
WFUT

I'm also getting an Azteca station on RF29.


----------



## WR2M

Whats up with FOX 5 WNYW ? I scanned for channels at 1:20pm Channels 2, 4, and 31 were as strong as ever in Roxbury NJ ( 36 air miles from 1WTC) 

Prior to FOX moving to their temp location in West Orange a few weeks ago FOX was always 8 out of 10 bars depending on propagation on my Samsung


Anyone else experiencing similar results ?


----------



## KyL416

General Custer said:


> So it looks like the Connecticut interference which used to cut my signal quality to 65% on 33 now has cut it to 0 on 36. Wonderful


The CT interference is only part of it, the big problem is that the 1WTC UHF stations are at reduced power becuase of that mess caused by the Durst orginization preventing them from completing their final facilities in time.


----------



## ansky212

WR2M said:


> Whats up with FOX 5 WNYW ? I scanned for channels at 1:20pm Channels 2, 4, and 31 were as strong as ever in Roxbury NJ ( 36 air miles from 1WTC)
> 
> Prior to FOX moving to their temp location in West Orange a few weeks ago FOX was always 8 out of 10 bars depending on propagation on my Samsung
> 
> 
> Anyone else experiencing similar results ?


I'm getting WNYW at 100% signal strength from West Orange.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> I'm also getting an Azteca station on RF29.


I wonder who that is. I don't see any channel 29 authorizations that make sense.

- Trip


----------



## General Custer

KyL416 said:


> The CT interference is only part of it, the big problem is that the 1WTC UHF stations are at reduced power becuase of that mess caused by the Durst orginization preventing them from completing their final facilities in time.


So does anyone know how reduced the power is for CBS?

I should cross my fingers that full power mode might restore CBS for me?


----------



## EF9500

Ok, so did my amp take a crap? I know things were changing today, but a rescan, and I have no signal on everything.


----------



## ALP

ansky212 said:


> And WNYW already made the switch on 7/29.





Trip in VA said:


> Everyone but WNET goes today at 1PM.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I did a rescan around 1:10 PM and got everything I usually do EXCEPT Channel 5! Did they screw things up by switching early? Where did 5.1 go?


----------



## KyL416

General Custer said:


> So does anyone know how reduced the power is for CBS?
> 
> I should cross my fingers that full power mode might restore CBS for me?


Check the links in this post:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-l.../275729-new-york-ny-ota-671.html#post58317172




Trip in VA said:


> I wonder who that is. I don't see any channel 29 authorizations that make sense


It's WNYN who has been operating on a STA for RF 29 ever since they got displaced from 39.


----------



## Trip in VA

KyL416 said:


> It's WNYN who has been operating on a STA for RF 29 ever since they got displaced from 39.


 That actually makes sense, though I would have thought ansky212 was on the back side of that antenna and would have very little chance of seeing it. Huh.

EDIT: And I would have expected it to be gone to make way for WLNY.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> That actually makes sense, though I would have thought ansky212 was on the back side of that antenna and would have very little chance of seeing it. Huh.
> 
> EDIT: And I would have expected it to be gone to make way for WLNY.
> 
> - Trip


It's strange.

Just checked, RF29 displays as 39.1, AZTA (Azteca America).

Signal Strength as high as I get on other channels, and S/N - 100%.

Blank screen, no audio, no video.

Thought this station was to have moved.


----------



## trailblazer

ansky212 said:


> I'm getting WCBS at 100% signal strength on RF36 from NJ.
> 
> I can confirm the following moves:
> WCBS
> WNBC
> WNYW
> WPXN
> WLIW
> WXTV
> WFUT


 In central NJ the signal strength went down on WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WXPN, WNJU following the frequency changes. On the following the signal strength went up - WLIW (new channel off of WTC), WXTV, WFUT. Hopefully the signal strength gets better WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WXPN. In my location the signal strength has decreased by about 30 to 40% on these channels.


----------



## MozzyMoz

Trip in VA said:


> That actually makes sense, though I would have thought ansky212 was on the back side of that antenna and would have very little chance of seeing it. Huh.
> 
> EDIT: And I would have expected it to be gone to make way for WLNY.


About WNYN, it has been operating since at least a couple of months.
In fact, I was expecting that WTXX leaves the WEDW spectrum because WNYN is supposedly the Azteca station for NYC, while TXX is the one for CT.
But now it has been showing a black screen since the end of last week.
In theory, it should be moving to RF 30, but that hasn't happened. I am in their coverage area, and I have no chance to ever catching WLNY.


----------



## Useeme1234

True to word i was watchin nbc4 at 12.59pm, then next second it was gone, i did rescan i lost wliw 21, must be low power gizmo. I dont know, but i keep getting wtnh, my59 poppin in, also wvit shows up 19.1, mostly in the evening but now during daylight..


----------



## Useeme1234

I want to know if wliw is reachin jersey population more than it was when it was in plainview LI.


----------



## MozzyMoz

trailblazer said:


> In central NJ the signal strength went down on WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WXPN, WNJU following the frequency changes. On the following the signal strength went up - WLIW (new channel off of WTC), WXTV, WFUT. Hopefully the signal strength gets better WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WXPN. In my location the signal strength has decreased by about 30 to 40% on these channels.


Funny. WXTV comes from ESB, and I think in the first hour after the transition there was some slight pixelation. Weird for me since it is the strongest signals around. At least my mom won't be complaining about her tv when she is back, hahaha...


----------



## Useeme1234

Yeah i noticed that some channels look like a vertcal band comes across, sort like back in analog days once in awhile you would see ham radio or cb break into tv frequency usually on channel 5.


----------



## KyL416

Useeme1234 said:


> I want to know if wliw is reachin jersey population more than it was when it was in plainview LI.


Here you go:

1WTC Reduced Power STA:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff36bd8cddf016bfc05464838d5&site=1&map=Y

1WTC CP:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916b249e81016b47d43f6025b7&site=1&map=Y

Long Island RF 21 contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=9f3e3ee6f6d04ff78c65cf6212b6c0ea&site=1&map=Y


----------



## Useeme1234

I want to hear from folks here if wliw is reaching them, or same like before


----------



## FrankH3rd

*WLIW NJ coverage*



Useeme1234 said:


> I want to know if wliw is reachin jersey population more than it was when it was in plainview LI.


WLIW being received in central NJ, Hillsborough Twp 10 miles north of Princeton, moderate strength signal. Never received here before.

If you like PBS, that makes Princeton area a PBS sweet spot. WNET from NYC, WHYY from Philly, WLIW from LI, and NJTV local! Besides national PBS programming, each offers different regional offerings.


----------



## Useeme1234

Cool, txs anyohe knows if wpxn ch31 are they moving tomorrow?


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> I want to know if wliw is reachin jersey population more than it was when it was in plainview LI.


Yes I would assume so. From my location WLIW used to be around 80% and now they're at 100% just like all the other NYC stations.


----------



## scorpiony

Useeme1234 said:


> I want to hear from folks here if wliw is reaching them, or same like before




Picking up WLIW here on UWS for the first time, steady strong signal with 100% S/N , 
Finally 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Useeme1234

so wliw reception problem must be just me, i still cannot receive it im only 5 miles from towers


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> Cool, txs anyohe knows if wpxn ch31 are they moving tomorrow?


I can confirm WPXN has already moved today.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> I want to hear from folks here if wliw is reaching them, or same like before


Live in the East 90s in Manhattan.

Everything went fine with my rescan except no reception for WLIW.

Used io receive in almost daily from Plainview - now, nothing!

Even with the station transmitting at a reduced level (56.5kW), really surprised.


----------



## reddice

MozzyMoz said:


> Funny. WXTV comes from ESB, and I think in the first hour after the transition there was some slight pixelation. Weird for me since it is the strongest signals around. At least my mom won't be complaining about her tv when she is back, hahaha...


That is why I can't receive WXTV with an indoor antenna. I can't get any stations off the ESB with an indoor antenna. I can however get WJLP with an indoor. All stations off 1WTC come in fine with an indoor antenna. With the outdoor I can receive all stations off ESB and 1WTC.


----------



## trailblazer

FrankH3rd said:


> WLIW being received in central NJ, Hillsborough Twp 10 miles north of Princeton, moderate strength signal. Never received here before.


In central NJ (44.3 miles) WLIW comes in at 75 to 77% signal strength. Was never able to receive this channel while it was transmitting on Long Island.


----------



## KyL416

SnellKrell said:


> Live in the East 90s in Manhattan.
> 
> Everything went fine with my rescan except no reception for WLIW.


The STA contour I linked to does show some yellow and even a splotch of red in the 90s blocks east of Central Park.



reddice said:


> I can however get WJLP with an indoor.


WJLP is still coming from 4 Times Square until the Durst organization sorts their mess out, however since June they have been operating on a STA with boosted power.


----------



## ALP

I just re-scanned another of my TV's and it does receive Channel 5 (FOX), HOWEVER, very intermittently and at low signal strength (about 35% or less). Anybody have any idea why Channel 5 is experiencing signal strength problems on its new broadcast frequency?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> I just re-scanned another of my TV's and it does receive Channel 5 (FOX), HOWEVER, very intermittently and at low signal strength (about 35% or less). Anybody have any idea why Channel 5 is experiencing signal strength problems on its new broadcast frequency?


I've read in FCC filings that all UHF stations broadcasting from 1WTC have
had to attenuate their power while Durst tries to do its job re-tuning the
Combiners.

The WCBS filing mentioned that it hopes to be up to full power by Labor
Day.


----------



## Useeme1234

I cannot receive their sistr station my9 i think some television brands are having a difficult time
on rescan i have sony tv set that has cuny on 24.5 the other subs are on 25.1xxx,


----------



## Useeme1234

SnellKrell said:


> I've read in FCC filings that all UHF stations broadcasting from 1WTC have
> had to attenuate their power while Durst tries to do its job re-tuning the
> Combiners.
> 
> The WCBS filing mentioned that it hopes to be up to bull power by Labor
> Day.


I can understand why you been hounding durst,that really sucks


----------



## CR-V

SnellKrell said:


> I've read in FCC filings that all UHF stations broadcasting from 1WTC have
> had to attenuate their power while Durst tries to do its job re-tuning the
> Combiners.
> 
> The WCBS filing mentioned that it hopes to be up to bull power by Labor
> Day.


UHF Insight sought by a long time lurker;
In Sussex NJ, RS U-120 (Antennacraft) at ~15dBi gain, with a GaAsFET masthead amp. 
I have no problem receiving WXTV and WMBC at circa 20-23dB C/N, but everything off WTC is round 7-10dB C/N. These values are off a spectrum analyzer, so it's no DTV demod "guesstimating" from a raw bit-error rate or double-parked carriers. My antenna response is relatively flat, and I can also see carriers at low level in almost every channel which is not supposed to have coverage here. No spurious from overload either. WNYE off 4TS is even stronger than those from WTC. I thought the situation might improve post-1st, thinking they were running far below their STA numbers vis-a-vis the Durst issues, but though now rearranged in freq, their levels are all about the same here. From 48 miles distant, these antennae sites are barely a degree apart with WTC being ~250' higher. Does it seem likely all WTC UHF clients are running 10dB low? Any other thoughts (or measurements)?


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> I cannot receive their sistr station my9 i think some television brands are having a difficult time
> on rescan i have sony tv set that has cuny on 24.5 the other subs are on 25.1xxx,


WWOR "my 9" was not impacted by this phase of the repack so their signal should remain the same, unless they had to reduce power to accommodate the tower work for the other stations that were affected.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> WWOR "my 9" was not impacted by this phase of the repack so their signal should remain the same, unless they had to reduce power to accommodate the tower work for the other stations that were affected.


They did have to reduce power and temporarily move from PEP40 (Upper UHF Antenna)
tov PEP96 (Lower UHF Antenna).


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> I've read in FCC filings that all UHF stations broadcasting from 1WTC have
> had to attenuate their power while Durst tries to do its job re-tuning the
> Combiners.
> 
> The WCBS filing mentioned that it hopes to be up to bull power by Labor
> Day.



My newest TV (which probably has the best tuner) is the only one that will receive anything from Channel 5.1 (Fox). For what its worth, using this TV's "signal strength meter" for the WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WPIX and WNET the signal strength ranges from 92% to 100% and is steady for each channel. For WNYW (Fox) the signal strength varies second to second from 0% to 40%. Somewhere around 30% I start to get poor reception. I hope this starts to improve soon!


----------



## ansky212

ALP said:


> For WNYW (Fox) the signal strength varies second to second from 0% to 40%. Somewhere around 30% I start to get poor reception. I hope this starts to improve soon!


Signal fluctuations like that are often the sign of a multipath problem. If you can, try repositioning your antenna to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## MozzyMoz

reddice said:


> That is why I can't receive WXTV with an indoor antenna. I can't get any stations off the ESB with an indoor antenna. I can however get WJLP with an indoor.


It will depend on what kind of antenna you have. When my Clearstream 2max was indoors last year, I was not able to receive JLP or PIX properly. But I was getting EDW pretty reliably.
Maybe getting a bigger indoor antenna will help? Assuming you do not have a terrace and your building doesn't allow drilling.
Edit: The fact that some of these stations are operating with weaker signals or from temporary locations does not help at all to assess which solution might be best. Sucks!


----------



## EF9500

MozzyMoz said:


> It will depend on what kind of antenna you have. When my Clearstream 2max was indoors last year, I was not able to receive JLP or PIX properly. But I was getting EDW pretty reliably.
> Maybe getting a bigger indoor antenna will help? Assuming you do not have a terrace and your building doesn't allow drilling.
> Edit: The fact that some of these stations are operating with weaker signals or from temporary locations does not help at all to assess which solution might be best. Sucks!


Anyone out in Suffolk long island? I get nothing!!! Is it my setup? Or is everyone on reduced power? I used to get everything in the 80's and 90' signal. I'm 60 miles out, but NEVER had an issue.


----------



## trailblazer

Just lost WCBS and WNBC/WNJU. Get "No Signal" indication on the screen. Wonderful job that the Durst Organization has done at the WTC for the repack!


----------



## KyL416

EF9500 said:


> Anyone out in Suffolk long island? I get nothing!!! Is it my setup? Or is everyone on reduced power? I used to get everything in the 80's and 90' signal. I'm 60 miles out, but NEVER had an issue.


All the 1WTC UHF stations are at reduced power until most likely Labor Day. That's WCBS, WNJU/WNBC, WNYW, WWOR/WRNN, WPXN and now WLIW who moved to 1WTC and is no longer broadcasting from the tower on exit 48 of the LIE.

Over at Empire, WFUT/WXTV is also broadcasting on a reduced power STA, but much of Suffolk is out of range of that signal and is covered by WFTY instead.


Depending where in Suffolk you are, you might have better luck pointing your antenna North and getting some of the Connecticut stations.


----------



## EF9500

KyL416 said:


> All the 1WTC UHF stations are at reduced power until most likely Labor Day. That's WCBS, WNJU/WNBC, WNYW, WWOR/WRNN, WPXN and now WLIW who moved to 1WTC and is no longer broadcasting from the tower on exit 48 of the LIE.
> 
> Over at Empire, WFUT/WXTV is also broadcasting on a reduced power STA, but much of Suffolk is out of range of that signal and is covered by WFTY instead.
> 
> 
> Depending where in Suffolk you are, you might have better luck pointing your antenna North and getting some of the Connecticut stations.


Ugh. What a f'n mess. I went from 90's to zero. Durst really f'd up.


----------



## General Custer

EF9500 said:


> Anyone out in Suffolk long island? I get nothing!!! Is it my setup? Or is everyone on reduced power? I used to get everything in the 80's and 90' signal. I'm 60 miles out, but NEVER had an issue.


I’m in east Setauket and I’ve lost WCBS and WNET is weak. Hope that full power helps after Labor Day


----------



## speedlaw

*rescan and...*

After channel changes...I checked prior to a rescan...

I lost CBS 2.1 and 4.1, NBC...5.1 Fox had gone missing prior.

Post scan, again got CBS and NBC on the new channels...Fox locks again. Bonus is now WLIW is lockable, so that is four useful channels gained. LIW does a better PBS job than WNET, who now has a problem with a better competitor...I'd have fought that reassignment...there aren't two ABC or CBS outlets in one market.... I never got LIW before, as the transmitter was hidden by nearby hills.

I'm 42 miles north of NYC, up 250 feet, and even though I'm near the ends of the Contour, my height generally puts me in "green" receive locations even if surrounded by yellow or red. Antenna is a CM 4228-no amps or rotor, feeds four sets total.

Signal levels overall have been higher in the past....I'm seeing on a Tivo 65-75 where I prior saw 85-100 on UHF, but it locks, so it "works".

All the "rescan now" stuff was wrong...as if you rescanned when they told you to, nothing would happen. They needed to say "rescan LATER", but essentially the communication was useless, fully as their job IS communication, and the adverts I saw were more confusing than helpful, and I knew what the subject was...


----------



## EF9500

General Custer said:


> I’m in east Setauket and I’ve lost WCBS and WNET is weak. Hope that full power helps after Labor Day


My amp must have crapped out. I'm right by you in stony brook, and had no issues with any stations. Now, EVERYTHING is gone.


----------



## LenL

30 miles west of the 1WTC and all stations are received as they were before the repack in terms of signal strength and quality. Plus now I am getting WLIW 21.1 and all the subs. Never received WLIW before.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> 30 miles west of the 1WTC and all stations are received as they were before the repack in terms of signal strength and quality. Plus now I am getting WLIW 21.1 and all the subs. Never received WLIW before.


You're fortunate!

I've netted out with the total loss of WLNY and WLIW, both of which I had
received with a fairly strong and steady signals.

I've emailed WLIW informing the station of my loss of its signal and included
my specific location.

I realize that when WLNY first changed channels, it used a backup antenna
and that WLIW, along with the other Us on 1WTC, are operating at reduced
power.

I hope, but kind of doubt, that full power will return either of these stations
to me.


----------



## General Custer

EF9500 said:


> My amp must have crapped out. I'm right by you in stony brook, and had no issues with any stations. Now, EVERYTHING is gone.


When you get up and running, I’d be curious to know if you can get CBS and NET


----------



## EF9500

General Custer said:


> When you get up and running, I’d be curious to know if you can get CBS and NET


Trying a new amp Monday. Will let you know. I'm assuming its the amp, as I get nothing at all anymore. OTA, is more of a hobby for me, so i didnt realize I was not getting anything until yesterday because of the repack, and rescan.


----------



## ansky212

speedlaw said:


> All the "rescan now" stuff was wrong...as if you rescanned when they told you to, nothing would happen. They needed to say "rescan LATER", but essentially the communication was useless, fully as their job IS communication, and the adverts I saw were more confusing than helpful, and I knew what the subject was...


What was wrong about it? I saw several stations advertising that you need to do a rescan after 1pm. I did my scan around 1:02pm and everything was fine. What time did you scan??


----------



## hobojoe

wow! i’ve had this discussion bookmarked but haven't been here for a few years. i use a channel master as a back up just in case fios ever goes out. when i heard cbs and nbc news anchors mention the rescan, i decided to revisit this place and saw that is alive! i did a rescan this morning and all majors are coming in strong for bergen county, paramus, nj. i’m just missing programming data and logos for cbs, nbc, and fox. now that i can aim my antenna more south and hit wtc1, i’m going to over-swing in an attempt to pick up some philly stations on those humid summer nights.


----------



## Useeme1234

SnellKrell said:


> You're fortunate!
> 
> I've netted out with the total loss of WLNY and WLIW, both of which I had
> received with a fairly strong and steady signals.
> 
> I've emailed WLIW informing the station of my loss of its signal and included
> my specific location.
> 
> I realize that when WLNY first changed channels, it used a backup antenna
> and that WLIW, along with the other Us on 1WTC, are operating at reduced
> power.
> 
> I hope, but kind of doubt, that full power will return either of these stations
> to me.


I got wliw back now, I rescanned my set a number of times last night, signal strengh is much stronger than when it was at melville. Am I right, you use to get wlny tv55 from UWS thats a bit of stretch, long distance.. I live in western Queens can't get it, tepography


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> I got wliw back now, I rescanned my set a number of times last night, signal strengh is much stronger than when it was at melville. Am I right, you use to get wlny tv55 from UWS thats a bit of stretch, long distance.. I live in western Queens can't get it, tepography


I'm 10 miles west of NYC in Jersey and I used to be able to pull in WLNY with a fairly stable signal. My house is close to 500' elevation facing east, with a small outdoor antenna.


----------



## marlowja

Mixed bag here in Park Slope, Brooklyn. I've completely lost WNBC with line of sight to 1WTC...WLIW is loud and clear though. 

Has WEDW switched to ESB yet?


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> I got wliw back now, I rescanned my set a number of times last night, signal strengh is much stronger than when it was at melville. Am I right, you use to get wlny tv55 from UWS thats a bit of stretch, long distance.. I live in western Queens can't get it, tepography


UES, East 90s.

Yes, I was also amazed!


----------



## ansky212

marlowja said:


> Has WEDW switched to ESB yet?


No. The DTS site at ESB has not been built out yet. WEDW applied for an extension until January, so this likely won't be on the air until later this year. I checked the longley-rice coverage map for this DTS, and I noticed much of NYC and the surrounding area is in the "brown" zone which is noted as the "interfering contour". Does that mean people in these areas will not be able to receive WEDW because the 2 signals will cancel each other out?


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Can anyone confirm whether or not WDVB-CD made the transition?
> 
> - Trip


Looks like WDVB-CD moved today. I just did a re-scan and now I'm picking them up. I was never able to get them before today.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> I checked the longley-rice coverage map for this DTS, and I noticed much of NYC and the surrounding area is in the "brown" zone which is noted as the "interfering contour". Does that mean people in these areas will not be able to receive WEDW because the 2 signals will cancel each other out?



If you're looking at my map, the brown is just because the maps don't play nice when there's more than one on the screen at once. The green signal from ESB should swamp the red signal from Connecticut and all should be fine.


- Trip


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> Looks like WDVB-CD moved today. I just did a re-scan and now I'm picking them up. I was never able to get them before today.


Actually, I think it moved yesterday with the rest of the stations at 1PM. My attic antenna can't pick it up but I'm seeing a steady increase in signal strength on RF 22 starting from 1PM yesterday: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/render_graph/1062B171/tuner1/22/-3days/now


----------



## ansky212

darkegg said:


> Actually, I think it moved yesterday with the rest of the stations at 1PM. My attic antenna can't pick it up but I'm seeing a steady increase in signal strength on RF 22 starting from 1PM yesterday: https://www.rabbitears.info/tvdx/render_graph/1062B171/tuner1/22/-3days/now


It's possible, or maybe they had an increase in power today. I ran a scan several times throughout the day/night yesterday and didn't pick them up. But after today's scan they are coming in strong.


----------



## EF9500

General Custer said:


> When you get up and running, I’d be curious to know if you can get CBS and NET


Forgot I had an extra amp stashed away. Back up and running. Everything mostly in the 70's signal. No wnet though.


----------



## tld

I made all the necessary frequency changes to my MythTV system yesterday and everything seems pretty good. The only thing I've noticed is that I'm not getting any of the virtual channels 63.x, including things like WMBC and QUEST, and I did before (at least a few months ago). Are they still using UHF 18, and if so, did they move to a different transmitter or something?

Thanks!
Tom


----------



## General Custer

EF9500 said:


> Forgot I had an extra amp stashed away. Back up and running. Everything mostly in the 70's signal. No wnet though.


I got CBS back today but the strength is low 90s and the quality varies from upper 40s to low 70s so its not so stable.

I’m hoping that more power might clear that up in the future?


----------



## logger-a

Trip in VA said:


> If you're looking at my map, the brown is just because the maps don't play nice when there's more than one on the screen at once. The green signal from ESB should swamp the red signal from Connecticut and all should be fine.


For those who will be unfortunate enough to receive relatively strong signals for WEDW from both the ESB and Trumbull, a solution would be to use a directional antenna pointed at one of the transmitters.


----------



## Useeme1234

I get Wedw by aiming my antenna at hi-rise across the street from me, by means of deflected signal it works really good. Wedw is 50 miles from my location, on the opposite direction


----------



## nyctveng

speedlaw said:


> Bonus is now WLIW is lockable, so that is four useful channels gained. LIW does a better PBS job than WNET, who now has a problem with a better competitor.. .


I'd say WLIW programming compliments WNET programming rather than being a competitor. WLIW/WNET/NJTV are all managed by the same folks now and most cable systems in the region carry at least 2 of the 3.


----------



## mw390

I just noticed today. When I press the button on my LG TV to show me the channel and the show title; it seems to be 1 hour off. Anybody else getting this?


----------



## KyL416

Yeah, WNET's parent organization merged with WLIW back in 2003, and they have been running NJTV ever since NJN was "shutdown" by the Christie administration in 2011.

CPTV on the otherhand frequently airs programs at the same time since they are the PBS station for Connecticut, but with almost zero cable carriage outside of Fairfield county, they aren't really competing for donations in the NYC DMA.


----------



## ansky212

nyctveng said:


> I'd say WLIW programming compliments WNET programming rather than being a competitor. WLIW/WNET/NJTV are all managed by the same folks now and most cable systems in the region carry at least 2 of the 3.


It would have been nice if WNJN found a way to get on ESB or WTC, even if it was a directional signal pointed west into NJ. Their tower is located southwest of me, and with my antenna pointed east towards NYC I have no chance of getting them. I would think that most people in northeastern NJ are in a similar situation.


----------



## KyL416

Because of that arrangement where NJ state still owns the licenses and facilities and WNET just programs it, the chances of that happening are very slim. Down in South Jersey WNJS wasn't even able to complete their upgrade in time because they are still at the mercy of the state funding schedule so they are currently broadcasting at a reduced power from a temporary antenna for the next few months.


----------



## MeatChicken

FCC Grants Channel-Sharer WRNN's Market Mod Petition
By John Eggerton, Multichannel News - Aug. 2, 2019

What the FCC took, it is now giving back. 

The FCC has granted the market modification petition of New York independent TV station WRNN, primarily due to the "changed circumstance" of the FCC's own broadcast incentive auction. 

The FCC encouraged broadcasters to participate in the auction, including sharing others' spectrum after they gave up theirs, and WRNN did, giving up its spectrum for a payout and the ability to stay on the air via a sharing agreement, which it has with WWOR Secaucus. ............"


https://www.multichannel.com/news/fc...t-mod-petition


----------



## KyL416

TL;DR version, basically previously WRNN was limited to only claim must carry status for the areas where it's upstate NY signal reached, now they can claim must carry status for areas where their shared WWOR signal can reach, which will let them get cable carriage in more areas like eastern Long Island and New Jersey.


----------



## MozzyMoz

Anyone can update if WEDW made the change to rf21?
I am ooh and did not check what happened at the supposed time of change.


----------



## ansky212

MozzyMoz said:


> Anyone can update if WEDW made the change to rf21?
> I am ooh and did not check what happened at the supposed time of change.


It was confirmed on the Hartford forum that the changeover is complete for WEDW.


----------



## EF9500

General Custer said:


> I got CBS back today but the strength is low 90s and the quality varies from upper 40s to low 70s so its not so stable.
> 
> I’m hoping that more power might clear that up in the future?


More power will definitely help, but it sounds like you have multipath issues(trees).


----------



## EF9500

Wliw is borderline for me now in Stony Brook. They at reduced power too?


----------



## KyL416

Yes, WLIW moved to 1WTC and is no longer broadcasting from the tower at Exit 48 of the LIE, and because of that Durst mess they are also stuck at reduced power. See the maps linked to in these posts for a comparison between their reduced power and what will be their full power:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-l.../275729-new-york-ny-ota-671.html#post58317172
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-l.../275729-new-york-ny-ota-672.html#post58333394


----------



## General Custer

EF9500 said:


> More power will definitely help, but it sounds like you have multipath issues(trees).


Is it odd that the other stations from WTC don’t vary like cbs? Is it because of wfsb coming across from Connecticut on channel 36?


----------



## KyL416

Yep WFSB's interference causes a mess of WCBS in Suffolk the closer you are to the sound. Hopefully the FCC approves the application so their replacement translator can return to air from WLNY's tower soon so you don't have to worry about RF 36.


----------



## General Custer

KyL416 said:


> Yep WFSB's interference causes a mess of WCBS in Suffolk the closer you are to the sound. Hopefully the FCC approves the application so their replacement translator can return to air from WLNY's tower soon so you don't have to worry about RF 36.


Damn. I’m across the street from the sound!

Is the translator in riverhead?

Is it supposed to be on a different channel?

I suppose I’ll need to point an antenna east towards riverhead?


----------



## KyL416

No, it's from Middle Island where WLNY and WFTY transmit from. If you can get those channels right now with your current setup, you should be good to go.

It will be on RF 22, this is the contour for it:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff36b48bd81016b6bc9830a20b1&site=2&map=Y


----------



## General Custer

FTY comes in strong but LNY is a little weaker

Any idea when this translator will be up and running?


----------



## KyL416

The FCC has to approve the application first. It's to replace the previous translator they had on RF 22 from the same site, but at a slightly lesser power to protect WDVB in the city, so it shouldn't take much longer after it's approved.

WLNY is currently operating at reduced power, it should be better when they finish their final facility.


----------



## rcodey

ansky212 said:


> It was confirmed on the Hartford forum that the changeover is complete for WEDW.


I am also getting WEDW on channel 21 but the picture quality is awful . I have Directv and the picture there for WEDW is much better .


----------



## KyL416

That's because 49 WEDW on DirecTV's NYC locals is just a remap of the spotbeam signal for 24 WEDH in Hartford.

WEDW over the air is temporarily SD only because they gave up a portion of their half of the spectrum they were already sharing with WZME so WTXX-LD could continue to broadcast until they're ready to move to their own signal closer to Hartford.


----------



## Useeme1234

So wtxx is moving i can receive their signal, but no picture, evently wedw is gonna carry just 2 subs? when do you see this happening.


----------



## KyL416

Whenever WTXX builds out their RF 29 facility near Hartford. That has a construction permit that expires in March 2022, but it should be MUCH sooner than that since they were waiting for WUTF in Worcester to move off the frequency first. Hopefully it's done within the next few months.


----------



## EF9500

General Custer said:


> FTY comes in strong but LNY is a little weaker
> 
> Any idea when this translator will be up and running?


Have you tried pointing across the sound? You should pick up CT locals easily. I can get them in the winter, but I have a ton of trees that way.


----------



## EF9500

Anyone know if Abc and Wpix on reduced power? Or is it my backup amp? I am having issues with vhf. Wondering if I should buy a new amp.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just saw this one - it's WNJU/WNBC's filing to reduce (not attenuate  ) its power to allow
Durst, the Worst to work on the PEP40 Combiner.

The disheartening portion is where it's stated -

"The work is expected to take approximately two months."

This could take us to the beginning of October for 1WTC's Us to finally achieve fully
authorized power.

That is twice as long as WCBS's estimate.

UGH!


Description of Request

This application requests special temporary authority ("STA") to operate at a reduced ERP of 408.8 kW so that stations at One World Trade Center authorized to use a different antenna (the “upper antenna”) can transition to their post-auction channels and continue providing service on the same antenna authorized for WNJU (the “lower antenna”) while the upper antenna combiner system is tuned to their post-auction channels. This work is expected to take approximately two months.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> Just saw this one - it's WNJU/WNBC's filing to reduce (not attenuate  ) its power to allow
> Durst, the Worst to work on the PEP40 Combiner.
> 
> The disheartening portion is where it's stated -
> 
> "The work is expected to take approximately two months."
> 
> This could take us to the beginning of October for 1WTC's Us to finally achieve fully
> authorized power.
> 
> That is twice as long as WCBS's estimate.
> 
> UGH!
> 
> 
> Description of Request
> 
> This application requests special temporary authority ("STA") to operate at a reduced ERP of 408.8 kW so that stations at One World Trade Center authorized to use a different antenna (the “upper antenna”) can transition to their post-auction channels and continue providing service on the same antenna authorized for WNJU (the “lower antenna”) while the upper antenna combiner system is tuned to their post-auction channels. This work is expected to take approximately two months.


Is everyone already at reduced power?


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> Is everyone already at reduced power?


My understanding is that the Us are operating at reduced power.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> My understanding is that the Us are operating at reduced power.


????


----------



## SnellKrell

Positive changes in my reception. 

A little while ago, WLIW finally showed up on my set.

Had tried earlier in the morning, and per usual, nothing.

Let's see how long this lasts.

Also, with WPXN-LD finally vacating RF29, last night, I was able 
to receive WLNY with a strong signal. As in the past, this station 
shows up mostly at night. As of now, 29 is blank.

I believe that WPXU-LD, RF12 is supposed to move to 29, if so,
there goes my ability to receive WLNY.


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> Just saw this one - it's WNJU/WNBC's filing to reduce (not attenuate  ) its power to allow
> Durst, the Worst to work on the PEP40 Combiner.
> 
> The disheartening portion is where it's stated -
> 
> "The work is expected to take approximately two months."
> 
> This could take us to the beginning of October for 1WTC's Us to finally achieve fully
> authorized power.
> 
> That is twice as long as WCBS's estimate.
> 
> UGH!
> 
> 
> Description of Request
> 
> This application requests special temporary authority ("STA") to operate at a reduced ERP of 408.8 kW so that stations at One World Trade Center authorized to use a different antenna (the “upper antenna”) can transition to their post-auction channels and continue providing service on the same antenna authorized for WNJU (the “lower antenna”) while the upper antenna combiner system is tuned to their post-auction channels. This work is expected to take approximately two months.



Since the changeover I am having nothing but issues with WCBS and WNBC/WNJU. I get no signal or low signal strength. Before the frequency change I used to get WCBS at 85 to 95% and WNBC/WNJU at 70 to 80% signal strength. All other stations that changed frequency are also low signal causing issues. At this point I give up with the NY stations and moved my antenna to Philly and get all major stations without any issues. I'll try NY again once Durst Organization gets their mess cleaned up!


----------



## speedlaw

EF9500 said:


> ????


In TV broadcaster shorthand, they are either V's or U's. This dates from when V's were prime real estate and U's were a hard to tune Educational channel. 

My signal levels are same as yesterday, but the reduced power is clear as all reading (Tivo scale 0-100) are 20 points below what they used to be-everything locks, though and 21-1 is a nice addition.


----------



## speedlaw

kinda wondered what this all actually meant...upper antenna, lower antenna, etc.


----------



## hobojoe

i’ve lost station logos and gracenotes guide data for stations CBS 2, NBC 4, and FOX 5. i’ve done rescans and tv reboots with no results. not willing to do a factory reset. any ideas on what it could be?


----------



## Packeteers

gaining PBS 21 WLIW was worth these past few weeks of confusion 
from 11375 i had to point my yagi in the opposite direction to get it,
but now it's free and clear from the same 8 mile away spot as others.

here's today's list of channels i get now if others want it for reference;



PHP:


2.1	WCBS-HD	
2.2	STARTTV	
2.3	DABL	
4.1	WNBC	
4.2	COZI-TV	
5.1	WNYW	
5.2	Movies!	
5.4	LIGHT	
7.1	WABC-HD	
7.2	LivWell	
7.3	LAFF	
9.1	WWOR-TV	
9.3	Buzzr	
9.4	Heroes	
11.1	PIX11	
11.2	Antenna	
11.3	ThisTV	
11.4	TBD	
13.1	WNET-HD	
13.2	KIDS	
14.1	WNDT-CD	
21.1	WLIW HD	
21.2	Create	
21.3	World	
21.4	AllArts	
25.1	NYLIFE	
25.2	NYGOV	
25.3	CUNY	
27.1	W20EF-D	
31.1	ION	
31.2	qubo	
31.3	IONPlus	
31.4	Shop	
31.5	QVC	
31.6	HSN	
33.1	MeTV	
33.2	Laff	
33.3	Grit	
33.4	Escape	
33.5	CourtTV	
33.8	News NJ	
33.10	WJLP-WX	
33.11	Thunder	
33.12	B985	
33.13	TheBoss	
33.14	1410 AM	
37.1	NJ News	
37.2	WNWT-WX	
41.1	WXTV-DT	
41.2	Bounce	
46.1	WMBQ-CD	
47.1	WNJU-HD	
47.2	TeleX	
48.1	WRNN-HD	
48.2	Stadium	
48.3	Arirang	
50.1	WNJN	
50.2	WNJN.2	
58.1	WNJB	
58.2	WNJB.2	
63.1	WMBC HD	
63.2	QUEST	
63.3	SinoVSN	
63.5	NTDTV	
63.7	Aliento	
63.8	WDNJ	
63.9	KCBN	
63.11	WWGB	
63.12	WBTK	
68.1	WFUT-DT	
68.2	Justice	
68.3	GetTV


----------



## KEVINL71

WNWT-WX? Channel 37? I thought nobody could use that station? Ever? Is "WX" for weather? (I've never seen that suffix with TV before.)


----------



## KyL416

It's WNWT-LD who spectrum shares with WJLP on RF 3. 37-1 is the same stream as 33-8, 37-2 is the same stream as 33-10. According to the FCC's info it's not supposed to be using 37-x, it should be using 18-x. The weather channel is a slideshow of doppler radar images, forecasts and maritime info with their sister classic rock station playing in the background, the news channel is Newsnet.

The station's history goes back to one of the former Box (and later MTV2) stations for the NYC area on UHF 38, and has a long history of being displaced to various channel numbers because of the digital transition. (First RF 38 analog, then RF 3 analog after WWOR's digital signal displaced them, then RF 3 digital, then RF 50 digital when WJLP used that loophole to move in from across the country) Before becoming WNWT it was last 51-x WBQM on RF 50.


----------



## McShadyPL

Packeteers said:


> gaining PBS 21 WLIW was worth these past few weeks of confusion
> from 11375 i had to point my yagi in the opposite direction to get it,
> but now it's free and clear from the same 8 mile away spot as others.
> 
> here's today's list of channels i get now if others want it for reference;
> 
> 
> 
> PHP:
> 
> 
> 2.1    WCBS-HD
> 2.2    STARTTV
> 2.3    DABL
> 4.1    WNBC
> 4.2    COZI-TV
> 5.1    WNYW
> 5.2    Movies!
> 5.4    LIGHT
> 7.1    WABC-HD
> 7.2    LivWell
> 7.3    LAFF
> 9.1    WWOR-TV
> 9.3    Buzzr
> 9.4    Heroes
> 11.1    PIX11
> 11.2    Antenna
> 11.3    ThisTV
> 11.4    TBD
> 13.1    WNET-HD
> 13.2    KIDS
> 14.1    WNDT-CD
> 21.1    WLIW HD
> 21.2    Create
> 21.3    World
> 21.4    AllArts
> 25.1    NYLIFE
> 25.2    NYGOV
> 25.3    CUNY
> 27.1    W20EF-D
> 31.1    ION
> 31.2    qubo
> 31.3    IONPlus
> 31.4    Shop
> 31.5    QVC
> 31.6    HSN
> 33.1    MeTV
> 33.2    Laff
> 33.3    Grit
> 33.4    Escape
> 33.5    CourtTV
> 33.8    News NJ
> 33.10    WJLP-WX
> 33.11    Thunder
> 33.12    B985
> 33.13    TheBoss
> 33.14    1410 AM
> 37.1    NJ News
> 37.2    WNWT-WX
> 41.1    WXTV-DT
> 41.2    Bounce
> 46.1    WMBQ-CD
> 47.1    WNJU-HD
> 47.2    TeleX
> 48.1    WRNN-HD
> 48.2    Stadium
> 48.3    Arirang
> 50.1    WNJN
> 50.2    WNJN.2
> 58.1    WNJB
> 58.2    WNJB.2
> 63.1    WMBC HD
> 63.2    QUEST
> 63.3    SinoVSN
> 63.5    NTDTV
> 63.7    Aliento
> 63.8    WDNJ
> 63.9    KCBN
> 63.11    WWGB
> 63.12    WBTK
> 68.1    WFUT-DT
> 68.2    Justice
> 68.3    GetTV


That's pretty much what I get now after I rescanned today. I'm very happy with the update. I live in Midtown and am especially happy that I now get WLIW, Create, and World, which I used to watch frequently elsewhere.


----------



## McShadyPL

trailblazer said:


> Since the changeover I am having nothing but issues with WCBS and WNBC/WNJU. I get no signal or low signal strength. Before the frequency change I used to get WCBS at 85 to 95% and WNBC/WNJU at 70 to 80% signal strength. All other stations that changed frequency are also low signal causing issues. At this point I give up with the NY stations and moved my antenna to Philly and get all major stations without any issues. I'll try NY again once Durst Organization gets their mess cleaned up!


How exactly did you move your antenna to a different city?


----------



## Useeme1234

Packeteers said:


> gaining PBS 21 WLIW was worth these past few weeks of confusion
> from 11375 i had to point my yagi in the opposite direction to get it,
> but now it's free and clear from the same 8 mile away spot as others.
> 
> here's today's list of channels i get now if others want it for reference;
> 
> 
> 
> PHP:
> 
> 
> 2.1	WCBS-HD
> 2.2	STARTTV
> 2.3	DABL
> 4.1	WNBC
> 4.2	COZI-TV
> 5.1	WNYW
> 5.2	Movies!
> 5.4	LIGHT
> 7.1	WABC-HD
> 7.2	LivWell
> 7.3	LAFF
> 9.1	WWOR-TV
> 9.3	Buzzr
> 9.4	Heroes
> 11.1	PIX11
> 11.2	Antenna
> 11.3	ThisTV
> 11.4	TBD
> 13.1	WNET-HD
> 13.2	KIDS
> 14.1	WNDT-CD
> 21.1	WLIW HD
> 21.2	Create
> 21.3	World
> 21.4	AllArts
> 25.1	NYLIFE
> 25.2	NYGOV
> 25.3	CUNY
> 27.1	W20EF-D
> 31.1	ION
> 31.2	qubo
> 31.3	IONPlus
> 31.4	Shop
> 31.5	QVC
> 31.6	HSN
> 33.1	MeTV
> 33.2	Laff
> 33.3	Grit
> 33.4	Escape
> 33.5	CourtTV
> 33.8	News NJ
> 33.10	WJLP-WX
> 33.11	Thunder
> 33.12	B985
> 33.13	TheBoss
> 33.14	1410 AM
> 37.1	NJ News
> 37.2	WNWT-WX
> 41.1	WXTV-DT
> 41.2	Bounce
> 46.1	WMBQ-CD
> 47.1	WNJU-HD
> 47.2	TeleX
> 48.1	WRNN-HD
> 48.2	Stadium
> 48.3	Arirang
> 50.1	WNJN
> 50.2	WNJN.2
> 58.1	WNJB
> 58.2	WNJB.2
> 63.1	WMBC HD
> 63.2	QUEST
> 63.3	SinoVSN
> 63.5	NTDTV
> 63.7	Aliento
> 63.8	WDNJ
> 63.9	KCBN
> 63.11	WWGB
> 63.12	WBTK
> 68.1	WFUT-DT
> 68.2	Justice
> 68.3	GetTV


I live close to you, looking at your tv list, I get most of the same stations, except I do not receive wnjb, never could receive jersey,
I receive CT, wedw,wtnh. I get 92 stations, including subs.


----------



## Aero 1

McShadyPL said:


> How exactly did you move your antenna to a different city?


he turned the antenna around?


----------



## ansky212

McShadyPL said:


> How exactly did you move your antenna to a different city?


I assume he meant to say he *pointed* the antenna to a different city.


----------



## Useeme1234

Frequency 27.1 there is nada der


----------



## ansky212

EF9500 said:


> Anyone know if Abc and Wpix on reduced power? Or is it my backup amp? I am having issues with vhf. Wondering if I should buy a new amp.


WABC and WPIX are both on Empire so no reason for them to be at reduced power. I'm getting them 100% in NJ.


----------



## EF9500

ansky212 said:


> WABC and WPIX are both on Empire so no reason for them to be at reduced power. I'm getting them 100% in NJ.


Gotta be my amp

Edit....bad crimp on a connector. Vhf is back.


----------



## General Custer

EF9500 said:


> Gotta be my amp
> 
> Edit....bad crimp on a connector. Vhf is back.


I don’t think so. ABC and PiX are coming in with reduced quality for me lately too.


----------



## EF9500

General Custer said:


> I don’t think so. ABC and PiX are coming in with reduced quality for me lately too.


I have my normal 55 signal on both. Low, but always locked. Been this way since day one for me. Only problem, is my led highhats kill the signal....lol. WNET sucks though lately.


----------



## Jay Stone

EF9500 said:


> I have my normal 55 signal on both. Low, but always locked. Been this way since day one for me. Only problem, is my led highhats kill the signal....lol. WNET sucks though lately.




Is that a real thing? LED lights interfere with OTA signals?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## darkegg

Jay Stone said:


> Is that a real thing? LED lights interfere with OTA signals?


My WJLP S/N ratio used to plummet when street lights (assuming LED) came on at night, and got back up in the morning when the street lights turned off (see attached image). This is one of the reason WJLP has asked for power increase.

These days I've almost completely lost WJLP because of some other interference.


----------



## LenL

Jay Stone said:


> Is that a real thing? LED lights interfere with OTA signals?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yes it is real as I had that problem with my next door neighbor's patio lights. It was not the LEDs themselves but the transformers. They were generating noise. I wrote the company and they actually tested their product and acknowledged an issue.. Sent free replacements. The replacement product worked and fixed my issue.


----------



## Useeme1234

I`m kind of surprised that no antenna company has manafactured antennas cut for the new uhf band?


----------



## ansky212

It appears that WLIW 21-4 is off the air. Did they drop the All Arts network? I'm getting 21-1, 21-2, and 21-3 just fine.


----------



## darkegg

ansky212 said:


> It appears that WLIW 21-4 is off the air. Did they drop the All Arts network? I'm getting 21-1, 21-2, and 21-3 just fine.


WNET's MHz Worldview on 14-1￼ and 46-1 are also gone.


----------



## Jay Stone

ansky212 said:


> It appears that WLIW 21-4 is off the air. Did they drop the All Arts network? I'm getting 21-1, 21-2, and 21-3 just fine.




Did this just happen today? Because I had 21-4 last night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## McShadyPL

Jay Stone said:


> Did this just happen today? Because I had 21-4 last night.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, it looks like it. I was literally watching some moon landing show on this channel at the moment when it went off the air today. My Samsung TV said "mode not compatible" or something like that, and the channel disappeared off my channel list. I tried to rescan it, but it hasn't been picked up. That's a bummer because I was enjoying having this channel. Hopefully it'll be brought back.


----------



## McShadyPL

McShadyPL said:


> Yeah, it looks like it. I was literally watching some moon landing show on this channel at the moment when it went off the air today. My Samsung TV said "mode not compatible" or something like that, and the channel disappeared off my channel list. I tried to rescan it, but it hasn't been picked up. That's a bummer because I was enjoying having this channel. Hopefully it'll be brought back.


 As of 4PM ET, channel 21-4 is back online! This must have happened within literally the last few minutes.


Also, I have 14-1 and 46-1 back, although those broadcast the same content with 14-1 being in HD.


----------



## WR2M

Since the Repack I am no longer able to receive WNYW (Channel 5) here in NWNJ. Since I have a better path to Philadelphia Ive decided to install a second UHF yagi and point it at Philadelphia. I prefer to integrate the Philly FOX channels into 1 coax this way I dont have to fuss with an A/B switch. I do understand that you can NOT use a conventional splitter to join 2 UHF antennas together because they interact and will most likely cancel out each other's signal.



A few months ago I remember reading on one of the forums that someone posted a link to an eBay seller that was selling what we call in the Amateur Radio world a diplexer. With a good quality diplexer I should be able to join the 2 antenna's together and receive Philladelphia Fox channel and integrate the 2 antennas into one coax. From what I remember you would provide the ebay seller with the channel(s) you would like to integrate and he will make a custom made device optimized to the frequency(s) channel you desire.


Ive searched high and low and can not find the link that directs me to this ebay seller. If anyone here is familiar with this seller if you could please provide me with a link to the sellers auction or just the sellers ebay name, that would be great ! 
Thanks in advance.....


----------



## LenL

Tin Lee electronics makes custom OTA components. You can expect to pay a premium. 



http://tinlee.com/


----------



## ansky212

WR2M said:


> Since the Repack I am no longer able to receive WNYW (Channel 5) here in NWNJ. Since I have a better path to Philadelphia Ive decided to install a second UHF yagi and point it at Philadelphia. I prefer to integrate the Philly FOX channels into 1 coax this way I dont have to fuss with an A/B switch. I do understand that you can NOT use a conventional splitter to join 2 UHF antennas together because they interact and will most likely cancel out each other's signal.
> 
> .


Someone here had mentioned that many of the channels are currently running at low power while work is completed at One WTC. You might want to just wait it out and see what happens when everything gets back to normal.


----------



## WR2M

LenL said:


> Tin Lee electronics makes custom OTA components. You can expect to pay a premium.
> 
> 
> 
> http://tinlee.com/





Thanks !


----------



## LIantenna585

Anyone know what’s going on with WLNY? I live in Suffolk County so I normally have no problem at all receiving it, but since the beginning of the month it’s not showing up for me on any channel scans.


----------



## KyL416

WLNY's at reduced power from an antenna lower on the tower until they finish their work.


----------



## ALP

ansky212 said:


> Signal fluctuations like that are often the sign of a multipath problem. If you can, try repositioning your antenna to see if it makes any difference.



If I can receive the other channels that broadcast from 1WTC

without multipath problems why would I have to reposition my antenna to receive Channel 5.1? 



For what it is worth I have written FoxTV (email as the directed OTA viewers who are having problems to do) BUT, to date, I have heard nothing from them.


----------



## ansky212

ALP said:


> If I can receive the other channels that broadcast from 1WTC
> 
> without multipath problems why would I have to reposition my antenna to receive Channel 5.1?
> 
> 
> 
> For what it is worth I have written FoxTV (email as the directed OTA viewers who are having problems to do) BUT, to date, I have heard nothing from them.


From a technical aspect I can't answer that. But about a year ago I had multipath problems only with channel 5, and after repositioning my antenna it immediately started working fine. You need to at least try moving it.


----------



## Useeme1234

I was gazing at my channel list, I noticed that overnight my tv set has picked up a 10-5,6,7.
I don`t receive it at this time, but I especulate that was wnjb that I received? or new station.
Can anybody tell me.


----------



## KyL416

WNJB is on RF 8, not 10.

It might have been reception of WNXY-LD or WTNH that was too weak to decode their PSIP data, so your TV mapped it to the RF number.


----------



## Useeme1234

Wtnh shows up as 8-1 when it comes in, probably was wnxy. Txs


----------



## McShadyPL

I've noticed today that the broadcast channel icons on my Samsung TV have disappeared, and my built-in channel guide is loading very slowly. Factory resetting my TV did not help with this problem. Is anyone else having new problems like this?


----------



## marlowja

McShadyPL said:


> I've noticed today that the broadcast channel icons on my Samsung TV have disappeared, and my built-in channel guide is loading very slowly. Factory resetting my TV did not help with this problem. Is anyone else having new problems like this?


I think it depends on if Samsung's EPG defaults to PSIP programming information, or if it uses an external service like TVGuide to provide longer guide information. I would suspect the latter, since I don't believe PSIP provides logos or images. I would hazard that the issue might be on Samsung's end, being unable to map the post-repack frequencies to each broadcaster, so it is defaulting to PSIP?


----------



## EF9500

I have completely lost vhf out on long island. Anyone else notice this?
Edit. So my brand new amp has stopped amplifying vhf? Wtf? Very strange.


----------



## EF9500

Whats everyone here using for amplifiers? I have been using a RCA TVPRAMP1Z Preamplifier for a few years. Works good for me, as it does both u, and v. Well it crapped out, I bought another, and after 3 weeks, the v crapped out already I guess they don't make things the way they used to.


----------



## LenL

I use Channel Master for preamps and distro amps.


----------



## DennisHPC

*WNYW Update*

Is FOX5 WNYW still operating at reduced power and from their temporary location on the WTC tower?


----------



## SnellKrell

OK, I'll try to share the bit I know and what I've been able to glean from FCC files.

You can imagine it's been hectic with the Phase 4 Repack and Durst's reneging on
contracts it had with stations.

Fox was promised that both of its stations in the market, WNYW and WWOR would
be positioned on the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP 40). Not too long before Phase 4 came
into play, Durst informed Fox that it could no longer accommodate WNYW on PEP 40
for its new frequency Channel 27. Once again, Durst told a station that there wasn't
enough power available to transmit from PEP 40. Therefore, 27 would be transmitted 
from the Lower UHF Antenna (PEP 96) - for this location, the FCC authorized an ERP of 
92.8 kW.

Some stations have mentioned in their filings with the FCC that all UHF stations would
have to run at reduced power. WCBS had mentioned 60 days, that would be until
approximately Labor Day. Other stations have stated a longer time.

So, WNYW's current position on the mast is not temporary, this is its authorized home.

I haven't been able to see any filing showing the station is currently transmitting at
less than 92.8 kW.

Again, the combination of the Repack and Durst have made for a lot of contusion.


----------



## Useeme1234

60 days would put the timeline in October.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> 60 days would put the timeline in October.


Don't understand.

If you're disputing the Labor Day date, here's WCBS's filing in July -

*Completion on the main antenna combiner work is anticipated by Labor Day and CBS has
every motivation to begin using this antenna as soon as possible. *


----------



## Useeme1234

From changeover 8/1 60 days later puts in October? at the pace most contractors get about, most likely the end of calendar year is a bit realistic.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> From changeover 8/1 60 days later puts in October? at the pace most contractors get about, most likely the end of calendar year is a bit realistic.


The work on the PEP 40 Combiner started before August 1st.

Unfortunately, an estimate of the end of year might be what we'll be facing.

The stations' STAs, when extraordinary circumstances are claimed, are usually good for 180 days


----------



## KyL416

STAs are granted at standard intervals, usually 180 days unless they request a shorter one, it also gives them wiggle room if/when Durst causes more delays so they don't have to request another STA if they don't finish by that Labor day target.

These are the expiration dates for the current STAs, all 180 days from when they requested them towards the end of July/early August:
WCBS - 1/15/2020
WWOR/WRNN - 1/25/2020
WLIW - 1/25/2020
WPXN - 1/25/2020
WNJU/WNBC - 2/2/2020


WFUT/WXTV is operating on a STA at Empire that also expires on 1/25/2020, but that's so they can reconfigure the antenna on the mast to take advantage of the vacated space from stations that moved to 1WTC. When it's done, Empire will only have WFUT/WXTV, WABC, WPIX, WDVB/WTBY, the DTS facility for WEDW/WZME and the bulk of NYC's FM stations. It will also still have the DTS facility for WMBC, although they have a pending application requesting to leave both Empire and Montclair Heights and move solely to 1WTC on a seperate directional antenna about 100ft lower than the PEPs.


----------



## DennisHPC

SnellKrell said:


> OK, I'll try to share the bit I know and what I've been able to glean from FCC files.
> 
> You can imagine it's been hectic with the Phase 4 Repack and Durst's reneging on
> contracts it had with stations.
> 
> Fox was promised that both of its stations in the market, WNYW and WWOR would
> be positioned on the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP 40). Not too long before Phase 4 came
> into play, Durst informed Fox that it could no longer accommodate WNYW on PEP 40
> for its new frequency Channel 27. Once again, Durst told a station that there wasn't
> enough power available to transmit from PEP 40. Therefore, 27 would be transmitted
> from the Lower UHF Antenna (PEP 96) - for this location, the FCC authorized an ERP of
> 92.8 kW.
> 
> Some stations have mentioned in their filings with the FCC that all UHF stations would
> have to run at reduced power. WCBS had mentioned 60 days, that would be until
> approximately Labor Day. Other stations have stated a longer time.
> 
> So, WNYW's current position on the mast is not temporary, this is its authorized home.
> 
> I haven't been able to see any filing showing the station is currently transmitting at
> less than 92.8 kW.
> 
> Again, the combination of the Repack and Durst have made for a lot of contusion.


Okay, thanks for the update on WNYW. Looks where I am with my summer cottage in Sussex County I have no hope of receiving FOX5. I do get WCBS, WNBC, and WABC rock solid with my CM4228 Antenna.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> It will also still have the DTS facility for WMBC, although they have a pending application requesting to leave both Empire and Montclair Heights and move solely to 1WTC on a seperate directional antenna about 100ft lower than the PEPs.


The WTC application for WMBC has been in a pending status for like 2 years. I'd be curious to know what has been holding that up.


----------



## n2ubp

EF9500 said:


> Whats everyone here using for amplifiers? I have been using a RCA TVPRAMP1Z Preamplifier for a few years. Works good for me, as it does both u, and v. Well it crapped out, I bought another, and after 3 weeks, the v crapped out already I guess they don't make things the way they used to.


Channel Master Spartan 3 mast mount preamp. Don't think they make them any longer.


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> The WTC application for WMBC has been in a pending status for like 2 years. I'd be curious to know what has been holding that up.


Since they're not changing their RF number they got put on the backburner in favor of the signal maximization applications for stations who are changing their RF number as part of the repack. A lot of similar applications are still pending.


----------



## NYC

KyL416 said:


> WFUT/WXTV is operating on a STA at Empire that also expires on 1/25/2020, but that's so they can reconfigure the antenna on the mast to take advantage of the vacated space from stations that moved to 1WTC. When it's done, Empire will only have WFUT/WXTV, WABC, WPIX, WDVB/WTBY, the DTS facility for WEDW/WZME and the bulk of NYC's FM stations. It will also still have the DTS facility for WMBC, although they have a pending application requesting to leave both Empire and Montclair Heights and move solely to 1WTC on a seperate directional antenna about 100ft lower than the PEPs.


Is there an estimate for when WEDW will transmit from Empire?


----------



## KyL416

WEDW's latest filings haven't indicated a specific timeline. Just that the DTS approval was granted too late (thanks to WJLP's pointless objections) so they couldn't start until after the 8/2 deadline. There's also no indication of how they plan to do it, like if they're going to have seperate crews working at Empire and Trumbull or if they're going to focus on getting one site finished first and then send a crew to the other site.

The construction permit for the DTS facility expires on 1/29/2020, but they could easily get an extension if they don't finish by that date since tower crews are already being stretched to their limits with the repack phases in full swing. The semi-good news is that they will be using a seperate antenna that is lower than the shared antennas used by the TV and FM stations, so it shouldn't be a repeat of the mess that is 1WTC.


----------



## DennisHPC

*Wjlp*

What power level is WJLP currently operating at? Recently, I have been able to receive the station with my CM4228 antenna, which I thought was not possible with RF channel 3.


----------



## KyL416

WJLP along with WDPN and WACP in Philly all boosted their power back in June as part of a mutual interference agreement:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916ab88c98016ac13467f51277&site=1&map=Y

WJLP was supposed to move to 1WTC by the agreed upon June date, but because of that mess with Durst they couldn't, so they're operating on a STA with increased power from 4 Times Square to give them the coverage area they would have had if they were at 1WTC. They went from a 65.4 mile contour to a 73.9 mile contour and when they move further south to 1WTC they will have a 72.1 mile contour.


----------



## darkegg

DennisHPC said:


> What power level is WJLP currently operating at? Recently, I have been able to receive the station with my CM4228 antenna, which I thought was not possible with RF channel 3.


I've also notices a steady improvement in WJLP signal quality (see here). It has come to a point where WJLP is watchable again with minor pixelation. The only explanation I can think of is this is due to changes in foliage around my area (I'm near Forest Park), but we're in the middle of summer and leaves haven't started falling yet, so I have no idea. It does look like a seasonal trend however.


----------



## ansky212

darkegg said:


> I've also notices a steady improvement in WJLP signal quality (see here). It has come to a point where WJLP is watchable again with minor pixelation. The only explanation I can think of is this is due to changes in foliage around my area (I'm near Forest Park), but we're in the middle of summer and leaves haven't started falling yet, so I have no idea. It does look like a seasonal trend however.


I have always had pixelation problems on WJLP. I think it's just the fact that VHF-Low is more susceptible to interference. It does seem that the main 33-1 channel has been better lately. Although I usually watch Escape on 33-4 and that always has a lot of pixelation. I noticed the same amount of pixelation when I used to watch this channel on cable, so there may just be something inherently wrong with the processing on that particular channel. The fact that WJLP crams in about 10 subchannels probably doesn't help matters either.


----------



## Brian in CT

darkegg said:


> I've also noticed a steady improvement in WJLP signal quality. The only explanation I can think of is this is due to changes in foliage around my area (I'm near Forest Park), but we're in the middle of summer and leaves haven't started falling yet, so I have no idea. It does look like a seasonal trend however.


They boosted power (see above thread). Trees/leaves generally only affect signals on the UHF band. VHF has its own issues.


----------



## Useeme1234

Brian in CT said:


> They boosted power (see above thread). Trees/leaves generally only affect signals on the UHF band. VHF has its own issues.


I use to be a cabbie years back, that area by forest park, going south towards jamaica ave.
has environmental interference, always got radio breakup near there. Also you got huge hill on woodhaven ave to overcome.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> OK, I'll try to share the bit I know and what I've been able to glean from FCC files.
> 
> You can imagine it's been hectic with the Phase 4 Repack and Durst's reneging on
> contracts it had with stations.
> 
> Fox was promised that both of its stations in the market, WNYW and WWOR would
> be positioned on the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP 40). Not too long before Phase 4 came
> into play, Durst informed Fox that it could no longer accommodate WNYW on PEP 40
> for its new frequency Channel 27. Once again, Durst told a station that there wasn't
> enough power available to transmit from PEP 40. Therefore, 27 would be transmitted
> from the Lower UHF Antenna (PEP 96) - for this location, the FCC authorized an ERP of
> 92.8 kW.
> 
> Some stations have mentioned in their filings with the FCC that all UHF stations would
> have to run at reduced power. WCBS had mentioned 60 days, that would be until
> approximately Labor Day. Other stations have stated a longer time.
> 
> So, WNYW's current position on the mast is not temporary, this is its authorized home.
> 
> I haven't been able to see any filing showing the station is currently transmitting at
> less than 92.8 kW.
> 
> Again, the combination of the Repack and Durst have made for a lot of contusion.



SK, Thank you for the update, it is certainly more information than I have gotten from Fox5. Let me ask what are probably some really dumb questions. (As I mentioned earlier, after the August 1st re-scan I have all of the major channels except Fox, which I now barely receive with weak signal strength that is very erratic. I am about 30 miles north of the ESB and 1WTC, I use a big Winegard Yagi antenna and before 8/1 received all major channels with very good PQ). Are PEP 40 and PEP 96 just names for the upper and lower antenna or do the number mean something about the antenna? How much lower is the lower antenna from the upper antenna? If the new position of the Fox antenna is the cause of my problems with Fox is there anything I can do on my end to improve reception? Is there any realistic hope that Fox will be able to restore its broadcast signal to what it was before the rescan?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> SK, Thank you for the update, it is certainly more information than I have gotten from Fox5. Let me ask what are probably some really dumb questions. (As I mentioned earlier, after the August 1st re-scan I have all of the major channels except Fox, which I now barely receive with weak signal strength that is very erratic. I am about 30 miles north of the ESB and 1WTC, I use a big Winegard Yagi antenna and before 8/1 received all major channels with very good PQ). Are PEP 40 and PEP 96 just names for the upper and lower antenna or do the number mean something about the antenna? How much lower is the lower antenna from the upper antenna? If the new position of the Fox antenna is the cause of my problems with Fox is there anything I can do on my end to improve reception? Is there any realistic hope that Fox will be able to restore its broadcast signal to what it was before the rescan?


First, I'm far from being an RF expert, I'll leave that up to the professionals on the Forum.
So, I really can't offer any real guidance to help you with your reception problem.

But, I can fill you in on the UHF antennas on the 1WTC mast.

PEP40 stands for the 40 panels that make up this antenna. It's located 1726' Above Ground Level.

PEP96 stands for the 96 panels that make up this antenna. It's located 1646' Above Ground Level.

Hope this bit of information is of help.


----------



## speedlaw

SnellKrell said:


> First, I'm far from being an RF expert, I'll leave that up to the professionals on the Forum.
> So, I really can't offer any real guidance to help you with your reception problem.
> 
> But, I can fill you in on the UHF antennas on the 1WTC mast.
> 
> PEP40 stands for the 40 panels that make up this antenna. It's located 1726' Above Ground Level.
> 
> PEP96 stands for the 96 panels that make up this antenna. It's located 1646' Above Ground Level.
> 
> Hope this bit of information is of help.


Are all 40/96 panels transmitting all of the signals at once, or are individual panels single antennas for one station ?


----------



## SnellKrell

speedlaw said:


> Are all 40/96 panels transmitting all of the signals at once, or are individual panels single antennas for one station ?


Each of the antennas is fed by its own Combiner - this allows multiple stations
to use the same entire antenna.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> First, I'm far from being an RF expert, I'll leave that up to the professionals on the Forum.
> So, I really can't offer any real guidance to help you with your reception problem.
> 
> But, I can fill you in on the UHF antennas on the 1WTC mast.
> 
> PEP40 stands for the 40 panels that make up this antenna. It's located 1726' Above Ground Level.
> 
> PEP96 stands for the 96 panels that make up this antenna. It's located 1646' Above Ground Level.
> 
> Hope this bit of information is of help.



SK, This is very helpful, however, also very perplexing. There is an 80' difference between the upper and lower antennas. Given that I am about 32 miles from 1WTC it is very hard to understand how a vertical shift of about 0.03 degrees in the angle between my reception point and the broadcast point could lead to multi-path reception problems. I receive signals from the top antenna on 1WTC with very good PQ, and I also receive signals for the ESB ( a vertical shift of about 0.1 degrees from the top antenna on 1WTC) with very good PQ. I have tried to contact Fox5 both by email and by phone with no response back from Fox5. I wish they were more forthcoming about their broadcast quality on the lower antenna.


----------



## ansky212

ALP said:


> SK, This is very helpful, however, also very perplexing. There is an 80' difference between the upper and lower antennas. Given that I am about 32 miles from 1WTC it is very hard to understand how a vertical shift of about 0.03 degrees in the angle between my reception point and the broadcast point could lead to multi-path reception problems. I receive signals from the top antenna on 1WTC with very good PQ, and I also receive signals for the ESB ( a vertical shift of about 0.1 degrees from the top antenna on 1WTC) with very good PQ. I have tried to contact Fox5 both by email and by phone with no response back from Fox5. I wish they were more forthcoming about their broadcast quality on the lower antenna.


You're not going to get a response because I don't believe there is anything inherently wrong with their signal. I'm 10 miles outside the city and I get them at 100% signal strength. Multipath is caused by localized issues in your specific area, not the broadcast transmission itself. Did you at least try to move your antenna around to see if it had any effect on reception?


----------



## KyL416

I put Pleasantville, NY in the search at RabbitEars, it shows poor reception for most of the NYC UHF stations and fair reception for some of the NYC VHF stations, although that's from the center of town, with varying terrain your location likely has different results, especially in the more hilly parts of the town.
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=6042

Can you do a search here with your specific location and link it to us so we can get a better idea of the situation where you are?
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php


Also the PQ on digital is all or nothing, with breakup if you have dropouts due to weak reception. This isn't analog where your PQ changes based on signal strength and distance. As long as the reception is strong enough to decode the 1s and 0s, even someone 60+ miles away will have the same picture quality as someone in the 5 boroughs.


----------



## KyL416

BTW, while fooling around with the search thing, I think I found the problem that some people in NJ are having. NJTV's Belvidere translator is also on RF 27, and there's overlap in portions of western NJ:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...25076f9164af64080164ecb9d0083210&cir=&circen=

For DennisHPC, when I put in Hawthorne Lake in the search, it shows the NJTV translator coming in slightly stronger than WNYW, which is enough for them to cancel eachother out:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=6049


----------



## ALP

ansky212 said:


> You're not going to get a response because I don't believe there is anything inherently wrong with their signal. I'm 10 miles outside the city and I get them at 100% signal strength. Multipath is caused by localized issues in your specific area, not the broadcast transmission itself. Did you at least try to move your antenna around to see if it had any effect on reception?





KyL416 said:


> I put Pleasantville, NY in the search at RabbitEars, it shows poor reception for most of the NYC UHF stations and fair reception for some of the NYC VHF stations, although that's from the center of town, with varying terrain your location likely has different results, especially in the more hilly parts of the town.
> https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=6042
> 
> Can you do a search here with your specific location and link it to us so we can get a better idea of the situation where you are?
> https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php
> 
> 
> Also the PQ on digital is all or nothing, with breakup if you have dropouts due to weak reception. This isn't analog where your PQ changes based on signal strength and distance. As long as the reception is strong enough to decode the 1s and 0s, even someone 60+ miles away will have the same picture quality as someone in the 5 boroughs.



Guys, I realize you are trying to be helpful, but you need to listen to what I am saying. I have been OTA in the exact same location since 2012. I have had excellent reception except for a period when CBS ran at 1/2 power and then I lost reception if it rained hard. I had excellent reception before the recan and have excellent reception after the rescan except for Fox5 which has weak and erratic signal strength after the rescan. ansky, I realize the HDTV is an all or nothing kind of thing, If Fox5 hits about 40% signal strength I get good reception, thus if I were close enough that Fox signal strength was 60% to 100% I would not notice any problems. You say that mutipath is due to localize issues at my location. My localized situation did not magically change when I did the rescan. Finally, I did rotate my antenna about +/- 5 degrees from is usual setting (see more about this below) and it did not make any difference (although I will try it again no that weather conditions have improved).



KyL, It is a good thing that rabbitears is not a very good application or I would not have any reception at all.  Here are some specifics. As I said I have been getting very good reception from NYC for 7 years and I do not have any seasonal issues with reception even though there are a lot of trees where I live. Here are some specifics that may help you understand my location better. I live on a south facing hill and I estimate that my large yagi antenna is about 400 feet above sea level and about 30 feet above the ground at my location. The straight line distance from my antenna to the ESB is 28.9 miles and 31.7 miles to 1WTC. From my antenna the position of the ESB and 1WTC subtend an arc of 0.9 degrees. I am almost exactly due north of Manhattan. If I were to rotate my antenna more than +/- 10 degrees (or maybe a little bit more) I would start to loose signal strength because the yagi is very directional.


----------



## KyL416

Your location didn't change, what did change is the power of the stations because of the Durst mess resulting in the 1WTC UHF stations operating at reduced power after August 1st. I would just wait it out until the work is done at 1WTC, hopefully by Labor Day. It's possible WNYW is at reduced power too but they forgot to file for a STA for it since they also had to file to change their final facility to the lower antenna at the last minute.

RabbitEars is a very good application, the webmaster Trip is a frequent user here and is heavily involved with the repack in an official matter as part of his day job. It's still a work in progress but it's meant to be a replacement for TVFool who's stuck on an outdated database and was never updated to handle the repack since the webmaster vanished. You just need to enter specific information about your location and antenna height for it to make its predictions. The default location for Pleasantville is one of the more lower portions of town. If I move the point to an area with an elevation similar to yours the results are better and in the "Good" range, which is why I asked for a more specific search:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=6075

At that elevation I can see that some of the reduced power stations are weaker compared to what levels they have when I switch to the post-repack search list that uses their final facilities. If WNYW were at full power it should be coming in better than a bunch of the stations you do get.


----------



## ALP

KyL416 said:


> Your location didn't change, what did change is the power of the stations because of the Durst mess resulting in the 1WTC UHF stations operating at reduced power after August 1st. I would just wait it out until the work is done at 1WTC, hopefully by Labor Day. It's possible WNYW is at reduced power too but they forgot to file for a STA for it since they also had to file to change their final facility to the lower antenna at the last minute.
> 
> RabbitEars is a very good application, the webmaster Trip is a frequent user here and is heavily involved with the repack in an official matter as part of his day job. It's still a work in progress but it's meant to be a replacement for TVFool who's stuck on an outdated database and was never updated to handle the repack since the webmaster vanished. You just need to enter specific information about your location and antenna height for it to make its predictions. The default location for Pleasantville is one of the more lower portions of town. If I move the point to an area with an elevation similar to yours the results are better and in the "Good" range, which is why I asked for a more specific search:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=6075
> 
> At that elevation I can see that some of the reduced power stations are weaker compared to what levels they have when I switch to the post-repack search list that uses their final facilities. If WNYW were at full power it should be coming in better than a bunch of the stations you do get.



KyL and Trip, I was just joking about Rabbitears, I tried to make that clear with the wink. I also understand about the exact location being so important. If I lived on the north side of this hill my reception would be very different. Even though I am a retied physicist and understand the principles of RF, I would like to talk with an antenna expert about some of the new designs for HDTV antennas and whether or not it is time for me to retire the old yagi.


----------



## KyL416

I would stick with the Yagi if it was working well for you prior to August 1st. Most of those newer "HDTV" style antennas are usually optimized for UHF and perform poorly in the VHF band, so it might give you problems with WNET, WPIX and WABC, and you'll be lucky if you can pickup WJLP at all.

When the work is done at 1WTC all of the stations will have a greater power than they had pre-repack, and you'll even get some stations you might have had problems with prior to the repack, like WLIW who moved to 1WTC. In a few months you should get WEDW too since they are building a second transmitter site at the Empire State Building that puts a much better signal over your area than their Connecticut site does.


----------



## n2ubp

ALP said:


> Guys, I realize you are trying to be helpful, but you need to listen to what I am saying. I have been OTA in the exact same location since 2012. I have had excellent reception except for a period when CBS ran at 1/2 power and then I lost reception if it rained hard. I had excellent reception before the recan and have excellent reception after the rescan except for Fox5 which has weak and erratic signal strength after the rescan. ansky, I realize the HDTV is an all or nothing kind of thing, If Fox5 hits about 40% signal strength I get good reception, thus if I were close enough that Fox signal strength was 60% to 100% I would not notice any problems. You say that mutipath is due to localize issues at my location. My localized situation did not magically change when I did the rescan. Finally, I did rotate my antenna about +/- 5 degrees from is usual setting (see more about this below) and it did not make any difference (although I will try it again no that weather conditions have improved).
> 
> 
> 
> KyL, It is a good thing that rabbitears is not a very good application or I would not have any reception at all.  Here are some specifics. As I said I have been getting very good reception from NYC for 7 years and I do not have any seasonal issues with reception even though there are a lot of trees where I live. Here are some specifics that may help you understand my location better. I live on a south facing hill and I estimate that my large yagi antenna is about 400 feet above sea level and about 30 feet above the ground at my location. The straight line distance from my antenna to the ESB is 28.9 miles and 31.7 miles to 1WTC. From my antenna the position of the ESB and 1WTC subtend an arc of 0.9 degrees. I am almost exactly due north of Manhattan. If I were to rotate my antenna more than +/- 10 degrees (or maybe a little bit more) I would start to loose signal strength because the yagi is very directional.


I live about 60 miles NW of NYC. 

I've had OTA here at my home since 1989. 

Just before the analog cutoff I could receive all the NYC ATSC channels. 

After the cutoff and multiple channel changes over the years things were no longer that great. 

Add to that the aging of my antenna system (coax decays in the weather and sun, antennas get beat up by the weather), 

trees grow, tall buildings get built between you and your signal source, airline routes get moved, other frequencies that might be harmonics being put into use by other services, etc. signal capture is bound to slowly decay. 

Even though you might think nothing has changed the airwaves are full of constant change.


----------



## speedlaw

*Change*

Exactly. Folks get all concerned about antennas, but I've had two at this point, a large RS VU 120 back in analog days...and now a CM 4228. The RS lasted a LONG time...and the eventual point of failure wasn't the channel 2 and 3 elements that got bent due to birds landing on them, but the plastic balun eventually gave up after 15 or so summers and water got in.... NTSC was always 100 % at my location with Philly adding the skip channels when conditions were good. The RS antenna lasted me well into HDTV time, from experimental HDTV transmissions, to full transition... it had a large array at the front for UHF....but when it died, I was able to go smaller and a bit higher with the CM 4228, and my only loss was RF 3, which I knew was going anyway-I would be putting up another large array for one minor channel. Spray painted the poles battleship grey and I went from an aluminum tree growing off the house to something you don't really see unless you look for it.

Two antennas, a few poles, and replacing a balun and a few splitters is still vastly cheaper than cable. I think too many people don't get that some experimentation and adjustment is part of the thing...they expect to toss a switch and get streaming like on a cell phone.

Based on experience, signals are definitely down and definitely less consistent than they used to be. I'm at the end of "green zone" so while not fringe, I'm at the end of easy....but NTSC was rock solid, as was the first HDTV signals, and after transition, HDTV was also rock solid compared to today. PQ was also way better in the beginning, but that's another rant for another time.

Getting WLIW has been a bonus so no complaints overall, and eventually Durst will figure out that newfangled radio thing,


----------



## EF9500

Is wnet transmitting from wtc? Or they staying on esb? Also, are they at reduced power?


----------



## SnellKrell

EF9500 said:


> Is wnet transmitting from wtc? Or they staying on esb? Also, are they at reduced power?


WNET is transmitting from 1WTC, and has been so for a while.

I haven't seen any FCC info about the station reducing its power.

Currently, WNET is transmitting at 4kW.

As of May 2020, the station will change frequency and will be moving
to Channel 12 @ 6.5kW.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> WNET is transmitting from 1WTC, and has been so for a while.
> 
> I haven't seen any FCC info about the station reducing its power.
> 
> Currently, WNET is transmitting at 4kW.
> 
> As of May 2020, the station will change frequency and will be moving
> to Channel 12 @ 6.5kW.


Ever since WNET moved to WTC I have been receiving them at 5dB lower than every other channel at WTC. So I assume they are at relatively lower power compared to the other stations.


----------



## General Custer

So, it’s Labor Day!

Is everything fixed on the WTC antenna? Full power stations today?


----------



## stillonacrt

*Why duplicate broadcasts on same RF? Virtual 33.x/37.x, MHz on 14.1/46.1, etc.?*

Just curious. (Been flipping through channels today.)

Can anyone comment on the duplicated OTA broadcasts in the NYC/NJ area? 

Specifically, a couple of the many 33.x are also on 37.x, and MHz is on 14.1 and 46.1. (Not sure if 48.1 and 48.3 are supposed to be duplicated as they have been for months, since WRNN has never stopped listing 48.3 as Arirang.)

Just curious to understand how duplicates come about. Could sort of understand if they were on different physical/RF channels (like the old 9.1-5.3 and 5.1-9.2).


----------



## KyL416

They're all low power or class A licenses that now spectrum share with full power signals.

37.x is WNWT-LD, it's the former WBQM/51 that the owners of WJLP purchased and now spectrum shares with them. 37-1 is the same stream as Newsnet 33-8, 37-2 is the same stream as WJLP's marine weather channel on 33-10. Prior to WJLP purchasing them it was various religious and spanish networks, but originally it was one of the local Box/MTV2 channels for NYC on analog 38, before being displaced to RF 3 and later RF 50. According to the FCC's info it should be on 18-x, but for whatever reason they are using 37-x.


14.x is WNDT-CD, it's the former WEBR/17. It was purchased by a spectrum speculator OTA Broadcasting, who ended up donating the license to WNET when they cashed out and sold or surrendered their remaining licenses. WEBR carried Korean programming, but back in the 90s it was the other Box music channel for the NYC area.

46.x is WMBQ-CD. Up until 2004 it used to be WLBX/22, The Box/MTV2 channel for New Jersey before it was displaced to 46. It was eventually sold, moved to NYC and became random religious and ethnic programming and later BizTV. Its owners also cashed out in the spectrum auction and donated the license to WNET.

Both spectrum share with WNET. I think the original plan was to make one of them All Arts.


Arirang's lease of 48.3 ended, so WRNN is keeping the subchannel alive as a simulcast, and will likely replace it with whoever wants to lease it next.


----------



## NYC

ansky212 said:


> Ever since WNET moved to WTC I have been receiving them at 5dB lower than every other channel at WTC. So I assume they are at relatively lower power compared to the other stations.


For quite a while, reception of WNET was always poor, and impossible at night. Now I don't get it at all. 
When WJLP started duplicating NewsNet and its weather channel, they were on 18.x then moved to 37.x.
The Decades network will return to the NYC area soon on 5.5 -- why not on 5.3? Are they keeping it vacant for something else?


----------



## SnellKrell

NYC said:


> For quite a while, reception of WNET was always poor, and impossible at night. Now I don't get it at all.
> When WJLP started duplicating NewsNet and its weather channel, they were on 18.x then moved to 37.x.
> The Decades network will return to the NYC area soon on 5.5 -- why not on 5.3? Are they keeping it vacant for something else?


Go figure.

I only receive WNET at night!


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Go figure.
> 
> I only receive WNET at night!


I receive them day and night. But if it's raining or snowing they tend to fade out


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> The Decades network will return to the NYC area soon on 5.5 -- why not on 5.3? Are they keeping it vacant for something else?


5.3 used to be a SD simulcast of the main WNYW feed. That went off the air a while ago so I don't know why they are keeping that vacant. 

WCBS 2.3 is up with a blue screen. The new DABL network will debut on Sept. 9th.


----------



## stillonacrt

KyL416 said:


> They're all low power or class A licenses that now spectrum share with full power signals . . .


KyL416, Thank you. Much appreciate the informative detail you kindly provided on these stations.


----------



## General Custer

Any updates on when full power will happen?


----------



## KyL416

Ion's website says September 30th for WPXN:
https://iontelevision.com/rescan


----------



## ALP

General Custer said:


> Any updates on when full power will happen?



I am still having problems with receiving Fox5, however, after numerous tries I actually got to speak to someone in engineering at the Fox5 studio in NYC (not 1WTC). He said they are still operating a reduced power, he said it was 80% of expected power ( I have my doubts that it is that high), that they are still working on getting the combiner sorted out and he thought it would be mid-September before they returned to full power ( I would my hold my breath on that date ).


----------



## SnellKrell

Remembering and saluting the World Trade Center television transmission engineers who died 18 years ago this morning!


----------



## bobbino421

SnellKrell said:


> Remembering and saluting the World Trade Center television transmission engineers who died 18 years ago this morning!


May they Rest In Peace and we never forget.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> Remembering and saluting the World Trade Center television transmission engineers who died 18 years ago this morning!



At times it seems like it was just yesterday. I still cannot get use to the sight of all the armed soldiers in GCT.


----------



## bobbino421

Never forget 
https://abc7ny.com/in-memory-of-don-difranco-wabc-engineer-killed-on-9-11/285070/


----------



## McShadyPL

I'm seeing commercial on This TV (11.3) that in October this channel will become Court TV, which is really disappointing. Does anyone know whether This TV will be retained and potentially switched to a different channel? I would definitely miss having this network.


----------



## Useeme1234

im sure they have streaming channel, i agree thistv is good choice


----------



## Spiderman865

Scripps owns Court TV and now owns PIX 11.


----------



## ansky212

McShadyPL said:


> I'm seeing commercial on This TV (11.3) that in October this channel will become Court TV, which is really disappointing. Does anyone know whether This TV will be retained and potentially switched to a different channel? I would definitely miss having this network.


Court TV is already carried on WJLP 33.5. Perhaps when WJLP's contract with that network ends they will pick up This TV. It doesn't make much sense for 2 channels in the same market to carry the same network. Although Laff TV has been duplicated on WABC (7.2) and WJLP (33.2) for many years.

As a side note, Escape TV which is carried on WJLP 33.4 will be rebranded as Court TV Mysteries on Sept. 30. It seems that this is just a name change and the shows will remain the same.

https://deadline.com/2019/09/escape...ith-lineup-including-the-first-48-1202737977/


----------



## KyL416

Spiderman865 said:


> Scripps owns Court TV and now owns PIX 11.


That has nothing to do with it, it was first announced that Tribune's stations would be carrying CourtTV back in December 2018. It was shortly after Nexstar announced their intention to acquire Tribune instead of Sinclair, so that deal was nowhere near closing and Scripps wasn't even in the picture yet. A few months later when the site went live it listed the now former-Tribune stations carrying CourtTV starting November 1st replacing ThisTV, including the ones that Nexstar didn't divest to Scripps like WPHL, KTLA, WGN and KWGN and ones they divested to Tegna like WCCT.


----------



## MeatChicken

I forget.... but Isn't GRIT and/or ESCAPE also duplicated between 2 different channels as well ..?


----------



## ansky212

MeatChicken said:


> I forget.... but Isn't GRIT and/or ESCAPE also duplicated between 2 different channels as well ..?


I don't think so. I believe a while back WXTV or WFUT were carrying those networks, but not anymore.

Decades network was supposed to show up in Q3 which ends next Monday. I don't see anything lit up yet on WNYW 5.5. Also nothing showing up for WEDW yet so I don't know what their timeline is for the ESB transmitter. I know the CP extension goes until January.


----------



## logger-a

MeatChicken said:


> I forget.... but Isn't GRIT and/or ESCAPE also duplicated between 2 different channels as well ..?


The rabbitears.info web site has lists of stations for a network, including lists for Escape and Grit.


----------



## NYC

Spiderman865 said:


> Scripps owns Court TV and now owns PIX 11.


Just noticed that FiOS has added Comet and Charge. I know Comet is on WLNY, but where is Charge from?
Also, reception of WNET and its subs has been impossible for some time.
Still awaiting Decades, 5.5 is a no show.
Any idea if there are any changes planned for PIX, aside from CourtTv replacing This? Hope ThisTV doesn't fade away and slides over to WJLP to fill the void.
Also awaiting WEDW, do hope they are up at Empire this year.


----------



## KyL416

They aren't getting them via subchannels, FiOS is carrying the national HD feeds for Comet and Charge.

The only announced change for PIX is CourtTV replacing ThisTV on November 1st, and like mentioned before it has nothing to do with Nexstar divesting the station to Scripps. It was a previous deal Katz made last year with Tribune Broadcasting prior to the sale to Nexstar and is also happening on November 1st with the ex-Tribune stations that Nexstar and Tegna got. It's only a coincidence that it's happening after the sale, the November 1st date for the Tribune stations was announced earlier this year when the affiliate list on the CourtTV site first went live.


----------



## General Custer

KyL416 said:


> Ion's website says September 30th for WPXN:
> https://iontelevision.com/rescan


Did they go to full power yet today?


----------



## matvtech

*Durst saga*

Does anyone have any info on if this has been resolved ? Are the stations still transmitting at reduced power ? My reception up to the repack was great with a 150' tower and individual yagi's cut to frequency. Now, without exception, all of my NYC stations are compromised. Even WLIW 21, which is a recent move to WTC from Long Island went from being my strongest station to my least reliable. I provide service to 4500 subs at a private HOA and the calls are killing me. Is there any available info on if and when this combiner problem will be resolved ?Thanks, Jeff


----------



## SnellKrell

matvtech said:


> Does anyone have any info on if this has been resolved ? Are the stations still transmitting at reduced power ? My reception up to the repack was great with a 150' tower and individual yagi's cut to frequency. Now, without exception, all of my NYC stations are compromised. Even WLIW 21, which is a recent move to WTC from Long Island went from being my strongest station to my least reliable. I provide service to 4500 subs at a private HOA and the calls are killing me. Is there any available info on if and when this combiner problem will be resolved ?Thanks, Jeff


We're all in the dark!

Here's contact info for the man with all the answers -

John M. Lyons
Durst
Assistant V.P., Director of Broadcast Communications

[email protected]

I'm sure he would just love to hear from all of us.


----------



## KyL416

Nobody filed for their licenses to cover yet, but yesterday WCBS filed for a program test authority.

What's your location, and have you updated the Yagi's for the new post-repack frequencies and made any other needed adjustments? i.e. the RF 36 antenna you were using for WNJU (and shared WNBC) can now be used for WCBS, and depending on where you are the RF 21 antenna you were using for WLIW can be reaimed and used for WEDW/WZME at either their CT site or ESB whenever that signal goes live, and if you had a RF 27 antenna for WTBY that can be reaimed and used for WNYW, but most of the other UHFs (and WNET come spring 2020) will need antennas cut for their new frequencies.

Also depending on where you are, you might be getting some interference from neighboring markets that only got worse since the repack also allowed stations to increase their power. Like out in Suffolk county WCBS and WFSB interfere with eachother on RF 36, so WCBS has a construction permit to bring their replacement translator on RF 22 back on the air from WLNY's tower. WTIC might also cause some problems with WPXN on RF 34. You might have better luck reaiming the antennas to be south of 1WTC to avoid side reception from Connecticut, or even lowering the antennas since, while being that high up can help overcome obstructions, it can also make it easier to pick up distant interfering signals.


----------



## matvtech

KyL416 said:


> Nobody filed for their licenses to cover yet, but yesterday WCBS filed for a program test authority.
> 
> What's your location, and have you updated the Yagi's for the new post-repack frequencies and made any other needed adjustments? i.e. the RF 36 antenna you were using for WNJU (and shared WNBC) can now be used for WCBS, and depending on where you are the RF 21 antenna you were using for WLIW can be reaimed and used for WEDW/WZME at either their CT site or ESB whenever that signal goes live, and if you had a RF 27 antenna for WTBY that can be reaimed and used for WNYW, but most of the other UHFs (and WNET come spring 2020) will need antennas cut for their new frequencies.
> 
> Also depending on where you are, you might be getting some interference from neighboring markets that only got worse since the repack also allowed stations to increase their power. Like out in Suffolk county WCBS and WFSB interfere with eachother on RF 36, so WCBS has a construction permit to bring their replacement translator on RF 22 back on the air from WLNY's tower. WTIC might also cause some problems with WPXN on RF 34. You might have better luck reaiming the antennas to be south of 1WTC to avoid side reception from Connecticut, or even lowering the antennas since, while being that high up can help overcome obstructions, it can also make it easier to pick up distant interfering signals.


 
Hi Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I'm up in Ct. 06488, Southbury. I have switched up the antennas that I can, still some more tweaking to do, but all of that is minor. I have some filters ordered to knock out a couple of adjacents that are causing me some problems, but I'm pretty confident that once they go to full power, I should be ok. Of course there are always surprises, but I need more cowbell ! I will use that email addy to try and find some info from their Engineer, if he isn't under a rock somewhere.


----------



## matvtech

*WTC tranmissions*

Well, I emailed Mr. Lyons, as suggested and actually got a reply. He satted that all stations should be at full power by Monday. Sure hope so. Thanks, much appreciated


----------



## Brian in CT

matvtech said:


> Hi Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I'm up in Ct. 06488, Southbury. I have switched up the antennas that I can, still some more tweaking to do, but all of that is minor. I have some filters ordered to knock out a couple of adjacents that are causing me some problems, but I'm pretty confident that once they go to full power, I should be ok.


I see that you are technically located in the Hartford DMA. Back in the analog era, reception of the NYC VHF stations would have been rather easy from where you are. Now with the repack, TV stations are going to be packed in like sardines between RF channels 2-36.

Here's something I'd like to know, in the last ten years, how were you able to deal with co-channels on RF 31 (WTIC & WPXN) and RF 33 (WFSB & WCBS)? I find it highly unlikely that you were able to receive any three of them at once. At my location, I usually received WCBS with no problem. But about 20 nights a year, I lost WCBS when there was even slight atmospheric enhancement from the north or east. WFSB would even decode, instead, once in a blue moon. WPXN was a little more stable for me. I wonder how you dealt with this situation in Southbury.


----------



## KyL416

Yeah, looking at the area on a RabbitEars search, you might also have to deal with occasional interference from Springfield with WWLP and WPIX both on RF 11, WGGB and WFUT/WXTV both on RF 26, and until spring 2020 WGBY and WNET both on RF 13.


----------



## ansky212

matvtech said:


> Well, I emailed Mr. Lyons, as suggested and actually got a reply. He satted that all stations should be at full power by Monday. Sure hope so. Thanks, much appreciated


Does this include WNET? They have been low power for over a year now. I never understood why.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Does this include WNET? They have been low power for over a year now. I never understood why.


WNET was not a part of the Repack's Phase 4, it's included in Phase 9 which
will have the station move to Channel 12, May 2020.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> WNET was not a part of the Repack's Phase 4, it's included in Phase 9 which
> will have the station move to Channel 12, May 2020.


I know that, but what is the reason they have been on low power for so long on ch 13?


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> I know that, but what is the reason they have been on low power for so long on ch 13?


They hold no STA for reduced power. Presumably, therefore, they are at full power.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> They hold no STA for reduced power. Presumably, therefore, they are at full power.
> 
> - Trip


I guess that begs the question why I get every other NYC station at 100% signal strength yet WNET only comes in around 70%. There are lots of complaints on this forum about people having problems with WNET. There must be something inherently different with their transmission power or antenna location compared to WNBC, WNYW, etc.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> I guess that begs the question why I get every other NYC station at 100% signal strength yet WNET only comes in around 70%. There are lots of complaints on this forum about people having problems with WNET. There must be something inherently different with their transmission power or antenna location compared to WNBC, WNYW, etc.


Although WNET, WNBC (via WNJU) and WNYW all transmit from 1WTC, they are located on different
sections of the mast.

WNET's VHF antenna is located in between the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40) and the Lower UHF Antenna
(PEP96). PEP96 is the home of WNJU and WNYW.

It's difficult to compare the power of other major "Vs" in the market coming from different locations,
different frequencies, different elevations and topographies.

Nevertheless, here goes -

WNET's (1WTC) ERP is 4 kW

WABC's (ESB) ERP is a whopping 34 kW - an RF engineer friend has called this station "A flame thrower!"

WPIX's (ESB) ERP is 7.5 kW

That being said, WNET's current authorized power on Channel 13 appears to be quite low.

In May, when the station moves to Channel 12, its authorized power will be 6.5 kW.

How much this added power will help, who knows?


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Although WNET, WNBC (via WNJU) and WNYW all transmit from 1WTC, they are located on different
> sections of the mast.
> 
> WNET's VHF antenna is located in between the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40) and the Lower UHF Antenna
> (PEP96). PEP96 is the home of WNJU and WNYW.
> 
> It's difficult to compare the power of other major "Vs" in the market coming from different locations,
> different frequencies, different elevations and topographies.
> 
> Nevertheless, here goes -
> 
> WNET's (1WTC) ERP is 4 kW
> 
> WABC's (ESB) ERP is a whopping 34 kW - an RF engineer friend has called this station "A flame thrower!"
> 
> WPIX's (ESB) ERP is 7.5 kW
> 
> That being said, WNET's current authorized power on Channel 13 appears to be quite low.
> 
> In May, when the station moves to Channel is, it's authorized power will be 6.5 kW.
> 
> How much this added power will help, who knows?


Thanks. So even though they are not at "reduced" power, WNET is still low power compared to other stations in the market. That confirms my suspicion. Hopefully the increase next year will help.


----------



## Useeme1234

ansky212 said:


> Thanks. So even though they are not at "reduced" power, WNET is still low power compared to other stations in the market. That confirms my suspicion. the increase next year will be 2 times or double the power. 4k to 7.5 kw


----------



## ansky212

Decades is now live on WNYW 5.5. You'll need to do a rescan to get it to show up.


----------



## ALP

matvtech said:


> Well, I emailed Mr. Lyons, as suggested and actually got a reply. He satted that all stations should be at full power by Monday. Sure hope so. Thanks, much appreciated



Well, Today is the Monday, let's see what happens.


----------



## AVdamsel

Hi all - New to AVS forum and I'm not a "super techie" like most of you! I live in Brooklyn, NYC.

I recently inherited a nice, large Vizio 4K display. I also recently cut cord with cable, and am looking to buy a good tuner to be able to watch OTA TV with the Vizio display.

Can someone tell me the current status of broadcast TV in NYC? What is the state of the technology? Is all broadcast digital now? This will help me figure out what to look for in a tuner. Bonus if you can help me figure out best tuner to use! 

Thank you!


----------



## marlowja

AVdamsel said:


> Hi all - New to AVS forum and I'm not a "super techie" like most of you! I live in Brooklyn, NYC.
> 
> I recently inherited a nice, large Vizio 4K display. I also recently cut cord with cable, and am looking to buy a good tuner to be able to watch OTA TV with the Vizio display.
> 
> Can someone tell me the current status of broadcast TV in NYC? What is the state of the technology? Is all broadcast digital now? This will help me figure out what to look for in a tuner. Bonus if you can help me figure out best tuner to use!
> 
> Thank you!


Hi there - to answer your questions:


All broadcasts have been digital since 2009. 
The highest quality broadcast you'll get over the air is HD 720p/1080i. These are typically the main channels (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, CW, PBS). Most stations offer additional programming streams known as subchannels, usually running reruns from decades past. These are often super compressed 480i and are barely watchable in my opinion. That being said, the quality on cable isn't going to be any better. 
A new standard of digital television (ATSC 3.0) may start being broadcast in 2020 with 1080p and 4k capability, but there are no consumer devices yet so it's too early to worry about.
 Your best bet for a tuner is probably a Over the Air DVR unit that also includes 4K Streaming options - Amazon Fire Recast and TiVO Bolt OTA are popular. The Channel Master Stream Plus is significantly cheaper, and might be a good option as well.
 Don't forget to buy an antenna - given that you're in Brooklyn close to the broadcast sites in Manhattan, there's no need to go all out in buying an expensive antenna, a $10 indoor one should do the trick. Hell, I've even been able to use a paperclip as an antenna and get most channels in Brooklyn.


----------



## AVdamsel

marlowja said:


> Hi there - to answer your questions:
> 
> 
> All broadcasts have been digital since 2009.
> The highest quality broadcast you'll get over the air is HD 720p/1080i. These are typically the main channels (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, CW, PBS). Most stations offer additional programming streams known as subchannels, usually running reruns from decades past. These are often super compressed 480i and are barely watchable in my opinion. That being said, the quality on cable isn't going to be any better.
> A new standard of digital television (ATSC 3.0) may start being broadcast in 2020 with 1080p and 4k capability, but there are no consumer devices yet so it's too early to worry about.
> Your best bet for a tuner is probably a Over the Air DVR unit that also includes 4K Streaming options - Amazon Fire Recast and TiVO Bolt OTA are popular. The Channel Master Stream Plus is significantly cheaper, and might be a good option as well.


Thank you Marlowja! So helpful! 🙏🏼


----------



## ansky212

marlowja said:


> Hi there - to answer your questions:
> 
> 
> All broadcasts have been digital since 2009.
> The highest quality broadcast you'll get over the air is HD 720p/1080i. These are typically the main channels (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, CW, PBS). Most stations offer additional programming streams known as subchannels, usually running reruns from decades past. These are often super compressed 480i and are barely watchable in my opinion. That being said, the quality on cable isn't going to be any better.
> A new standard of digital television (ATSC 3.0) may start being broadcast in 2020 with 1080p and 4k capability, but there are no consumer devices yet so it's too early to worry about.
> Your best bet for a tuner is probably a Over the Air DVR unit that also includes 4K Streaming options - Amazon Fire Recast and TiVO Bolt OTA are popular. The Channel Master Stream Plus is significantly cheaper, and might be a good option as well.
> Don't forget to buy an antenna - given that you're in Brooklyn close to the broadcast sites in Manhattan, there's no need to go all out in buying an expensive antenna, a $10 indoor one should do the trick. Hell, I've even been able to use a paperclip as an antenna and get most channels in Brooklyn.


I would go with the Amazon Recast as a first choice, particularly because the equipment is relatively inexpensive and does not require a subscription. Tivo's are good but they are very expensive when you factor in the monthly or lifetime subscription costs.


----------



## General Custer

Doesn’t look like they’ve gone to full power yet


----------



## SnellKrell

General Custer said:


> Doesn’t look like they’ve gone to full power yet


No discernible difference here on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

John Lyons, que pasa?


----------



## trailblazer

General Custer said:


> Doesn’t look like they’ve gone to full power yet


Not surprising!


----------



## SnellKrell

trailblazer said:


> Not surprising!


Just remember that the 10/3 quote from John Lyons included that stations "should"
be at full power today.

Lots of "shoulds" from Durst!!!!!


----------



## darkegg

I'm seeing a slight increase in signal strength on WWOR starting from around 12:30AM, but the improvement is very small (but consistent): from 96% to 99%. This could just be noise, but when the signal strength spikes like that it usually means something has changed.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> I'm seeing a slight increase in signal strength on WWOR starting from around 12:30AM, but the improvement is very small (but consistent): from 96% to 99%. This could just be noise, but when the signal strength spikes like that it usually means something has changed.


Hope something did occur.

For those who aren't up on all the promised changes, WWOR had to move to 
the Lower UHF Antenna (PEP96) with an ERP of 39 kW.

The plan has been for it to move back to the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40)
at 57.8 kW.


----------



## General Custer

Wcbs is the same or worse in East Setauket for me

Wwor is the same

I don’t think anything happened today


----------



## SnellKrell

General Custer said:


> Wcbs is the same or worse in East Setauket for me
> 
> Wwor is the same
> 
> I don’t think anything happened today


More of my trivia.

WCBS was to have moved from PEP96 @ 321 kW upstairs to PEP40 putting out 548 kW.


----------



## General Custer

SnellKrell said:


> More of my trivia.
> 
> WCBS was to have moved from PEP96 @ 321 kW upstairs to PEP40 putting out 548 kW.


So did it move?

Wouldn’t it have gotten stronger for me if it did happen?


----------



## SnellKrell

General Custer said:


> So did it move?
> 
> Wouldn’t it have gotten stronger for me if it did happen?


To both questions - 

Who knows?


----------



## General Custer

Me still thinks nothing happened


----------



## SnellKrell

General Custer said:


> Me still thinks nothing happened


I could be deluding myself, but - just checked the Fair Lawn, NJ Live Bandscan tuner.

If looks as if there may have been some power increases around 8:30 tonight - or,
it could be local reception phenomena. 

Anyone experiencing a rise in signal strength?


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> I could be deluding myself, but - just checked the Fair Lawn, NJ Live Bandscan tuner.
> 
> If looks as if there may have been some power increases around 8:30 tonight - or,
> it could be local reception phenomena.
> 
> Anyone experiencing a rise in signal strength?


FWIW, Here is what I have seen in the last 24 hours. Fox 5 has improved but only slightly. It appears to be more powerful, BUT still varies widely in signal strength. At its best it now hits about 70% on my newest TV's "signal strength meter" where as the other major broadcast channels ( CBS, NBC. ABC, CW (11) and PBS (13) ) all come in 95% to 100% and are stable in signal strength. I also checked PBS (21) and WWOR (9). 21 is strong stable signal and 9 is medium signal (50% to 60%), however, it is stable and anything over about 35% to 40% is watchable.


How is it decided which channels go on the upper antenna?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> FWIW, Here is what I have seen in the last 24 hours. Fox 5 has improved but only slightly. It appears to be more powerful, BUT still varies widely in signal strength. At its best it now hits about 70% on my newest TV's "signal strength meter" where as the other major broadcast channels ( CBS, NBC. ABC, CW (11) and PBS (13) ) all come in 95% to 100% and are stable in signal strength. I also checked PBS (21) and WWOR (9). 21 is strong stable signal and 9 is medium signal (50% to 60%), however, it is stable and anything over about 35% to 40% is watchable.
> 
> 
> How is it decided which channels go on the upper antenna?


This is how I believe things go concerning which antenna is used - the short version.

. Stations determine from Durst what's available and then negotiate.

. Stations apply to the FCC and get approval.

. Durst reneges, claims there isn't enough power to accommodate the stations' needs. 


Both WNYW and WLIW had negotiated and had been promised positions for their primary
transmissions on the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40), and both were told, no can do. They then had to
use the Lower UHF Antenna (PEP96).


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> This is how I believe things go concerning which antenna is used - the short version.
> 
> . Stations determine from Durst what's available and then negotiate.
> 
> . Stations apply to the FCC and get approval.
> 
> . Durst reneges, claims there isn't enough power to accommodate the stations' needs.
> 
> 
> Both WNYW and WLIW had negotiated and had been promised positions for their primary
> transmissions on the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40), and both were told, no can do. They then had to
> use the Lower UHF Antenna (PEP96).


That antenna is 1700' in the air. Does it really matter if it's the upper antenna or lower antenna. It's the power output that is going to make the difference in the reception that you get.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> That antenna is 1700' in the air. Does it really matter if it's the upper antenna or lower antenna. It's the power output that is going to make the difference in the reception that you get.


Of course, power is important, but the additional height of the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40)
makes it more difficult for those living closer to 1WTC to receive better reception.

The Upper is better for the burbs.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> Of course, power is important, but the additional height of the Upper UHF Antenna (PEP40)
> makes it more difficult for those living closer to 1WTC to receive better reception.
> 
> The Upper is better for the burbs.



This does not natch with what I get in the northern burbs.  WLIW is strong and stable, but WWOR and WNYW are medium strength and 5 is variable in strength and 9 is more stable. Go figure. . How did Durst get control of what goes where on 1WTC?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> This does not natch with what I get in the northern burbs.  WLIW is strong and stable, but WWOR and WNYW are medium strength and 5 is variable in strength and 9 is more stable. Go figure. . How did Durst get control of what goes where on 1WTC?


My understanding of the UHF stations' locations (Main Transmission), once things are finalized is -

Upper - WCBS, WWOR, WPXN

Lower - WNJU (WNBC), WNYW, WLIW

In 2010, Durst invested approximately $100 Million in 1WTC and assumed management
of the building and its broadcast operation. PEP 40, PEP 96 and the VHF Master Antenna
are owned by the building and their use is rented to stations.


----------



## matvtech

*WTC Changes ?*

I recorded all of my levels last week and a check on Monday afternoon revealed no change. Tuesday, I noticed a substantial difference but really not sure if it was just favorable condiditions.
A check this morning, Wednesday, and my levels are actually less than they were last week but today is a pretty miserable day.
Have they increased the power at WTC ? Hard for me to definitively tell.


----------



## NYC

SnellKrell said:


> I could be deluding myself, but - just checked the Fair Lawn, NJ Live Bandscan tuner.
> 
> If looks as if there may have been some power increases around 8:30 tonight - or,
> it could be local reception phenomena.
> 
> Anyone experiencing a rise in signal strength?


I have seen some small increases and decreases, with most stations at 80% strength or better. Some noticeable changes: 13 which was impossible to tune in at all is now flickering in and out and WABC which was always solid is now showing some pixelation.


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> I have seen some small increases and decreases, with most stations at 80% strength or better. Some noticeable changes: 13 which was impossible to tune in at all is now flickering in and out and WABC which was always solid is now showing some pixelation.


WNET broadcasts from WTC, and WABC broadcasts from ESB, so they have nothing to do with each other.

Anyway, this is OTA reception we're talking about. You're always going to see small fluctuations (up or down) with reception. If you think any of this has to do with the stations adjusting power then you're reading too much into it.


----------



## General Custer

Anyone email the engineer to see what happened?


----------



## SnellKrell

Strange!

No signal for WLIW, RF32 at approximately 2:00 p.m. and 4:15 p.m. today.

Each incident lasted about 1/2 hour.

This has been verified via two RabbitEars, Live Bandscan tuners - Richmond Hill and Fair Lawn.

Something is going on.


----------



## Useeme1234

Coming great here 2nite, cbs signal seems to tail off lately, should be back to full strength signal this month.


----------



## ansky212

I contacted CPTV to see if they have any updates on when the WEDW broadcast from ESB is going to start. I'll report back if I hear any updates.


----------



## EF9500

General Custer said:


> Wcbs is the same or worse in East Setauket for me
> 
> Wwor is the same
> 
> I don’t think anything happened today


I am in Stony Brook, getting all reliable. I do have a decent LOS without much trees. Shocker living here in the sticks....LOL


----------



## ALP

Fox5 was better for a few days, but has degraded again. I think they are still trying to get this repack right.


----------



## LIantenna585

Anyone know what’s going on with WRNN 48.3? I know it switched from Arirang programming to an SD broadcast of 48.1 a while ago, but I just checked and it appears to be airing religious programming. Right now it’s airing a Spanish show that appears to be affiliated with a church in Queens. It could just be an infomercial/brokered programming, but I’ll be monitoring this channel to see what else it shows.


----------



## KyL416

They're now carrying "Canal de la Fe"


----------



## KyL416

WCBS and WLIW filed for their licenses to cover today.


----------



## NYC

LIantenna585 said:


> Anyone know what’s going on with WRNN 48.3? I know it switched from Arirang programming to an SD broadcast of 48.1 a while ago, but I just checked and it appears to be airing religious programming. Right now it’s airing a Spanish show that appears to be affiliated with a church in Queens. It could just be an infomercial/brokered programming, but I’ll be monitoring this channel to see what else it shows.


It has been Spanish language religious/inspirational for several days now.


----------



## NYC

ansky212 said:


> WNET broadcasts from WTC, and WABC broadcasts from ESB, so they have nothing to do with each other.
> 
> Anyway, this is OTA reception we're talking about. You're always going to see small fluctuations (up or down) with reception. If you think any of this has to do with the stations adjusting power then you're reading too much into it.


I never stated that there was a connection. As several others have pointed out, there have been numerous fluctuations recently, and the pixelation on WABC has been happening frequently and has blurred a significant amount of screen space when it does, making watching difficult.


----------



## Useeme1234

Wabc7 is by far strongest station on nyc dial, wpxn ch31 has been MIA


----------



## KyL416

Where are you located? WPXN is co-channel with WSWB in Scranton and WTIC in Hartford which limits their availability in some areas, and makes it susceptible to interference when the boost conditions are right. So in some areas you might have to find a sweet spot to aim for instead of pointing directly at 1WTC to prevent side or rear reception of the co-channel stations. WCBS has the same co-channel issue on Long Island with WFSB, which is why they have a construction permit to get their replacement translator on RF 22 back on the air from WLNY's tower.

The live bandscans on RabbitEars shows it coming in just fine in Poughkeepsie and Queens. The live bandscan for Fair Lawn, NJ was also getting it up until around 8:25pm, when it stopped reporting updates.


----------



## SnellKrell

Fair Lawn Live Bandscan is back!


----------



## General Custer

SnellKrell said:


> Fair Lawn Live Bandscan is back!


What is this?


----------



## SnellKrell

General Custer said:


> What is this?


This one of the many features to be found on RabbitEars.info - possibly the
most comprehensive website for information about Over-the-Air broadcasting.

Live Bandscan features television tuners around the country graphically
showing the Signal Strength and Signal to Noise figures of the local
stations being received.

Here's the link to one of tuners - this one located in Fair Lawn, NJ.

https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/one_tuner_map/10343612/tuner1


----------



## KyL416

WPXN filed for their license to cover today along with their "10 days after the construction of the post-auction facilities have been completed" progress report.

It does match the increase we saw in the Fair Lawn live bandscan's monthly graph starting last week. The Poughkeepsie one appears to be in an area affected by the occasional co-channel boost interference but since that date it has been coming in more reliable, while Queens is close enough that even at reduced power it was still at 100% signal strength.


----------



## stillonacrt

*Anyone else notice Audio sync problem on 2.3 DABL? (Insignia/Zenith STB)*

Hi,

Curious if anyone else noticed a fairly severe audio sync problem on 2.3 DABL - at least with certain tuners. 

Was at relative's house today and they use DTV-transition era Insignia/Zenith STB tuners (circa 2009) with CRTs.

I *think* I have briefly stopped on 2.3 while channel surfing and can't recall noticing anything amiss on a recent-model TV (also OTA) with built-in digital tuner.


----------



## MozzyMoz

I haven't posted since the week of the big Phase 4 Repack, so...

On my side of Queens, I have definitely lost CPTV. A pity. 
Interestingly, now WPXU-LD is coming mostly ok, very little pixelation except on very windy days. 
I hope the work on the WTC finishes soon because I was having pixelation problems with WNET. WLIW is coming great and it is def a great addition to NET.
Also, I have some issues with WPIX on very windy days (like today), but it is much better than at the beginning of September.
Azteca WNYN is coming ok as well, but with the loss of CPTV, it is the only Azteca I am getting.

We'll wait and see what happens with CPTV. I also have to make a serious antenna adjustment, but I am also considering installing a pre amp to my antenna.
My question is: preamp or coaxial distributor with amplification? Which will impact less on the incoming signals?


----------



## KyL416

Don't worry about CPTV. They are building a DTS site at the Empire state building which will reach Queens much better than their pre-repack signal from Connecticut did. Right now they are at reduced power from their Connecticut site while they build out the final facilities.


If you care about Azteca, don't rely on WEDW's signal for it. It's only a temporary sharing arrangement until WTXX-LD can finish building their own signal that will be transmitting from a tower in West Hartford.

WNYN-LD is also transmitting from a temporary site in the Upper East side. Unfortunately their final site will be sharing with WNJJ-LD on a tower in West Orange, so you might have trouble getting them in Queens when everything is done. (Quite the move for a station that originally started as The Box affiiate for Deer Park in Suffolk County)

If Azteca is a must, you will likely need to rely on WKOB-LD's signal. Right now it's on RF 2, but it has a construction permit to move to RF 13 and spectrum share with WASA-LD (EstrellaTV) after WNET moves to RF 12 next Spring.


You might be out of luck with WPXU. Since WNET will be displacing their RF 12 signal, they will be spectrum sharing with W31EF-D on RF 29. And since they need to protect WLNY, there's a giant null towards Long Island. If you do care about Daystar (and their internet stream isn't ideal for you), it is also carried on one of WKOB's subchannels.


Most of Queens is so close that a preamp and even a distribution amp might be overkill. I would just wait it out and see how the reception of the LP channels you might care about are when they finish their moves. Plus, CPTV will be coming from the Empire State Building so you won't have to worry about attempting to find a sweet spot to pick it up from across the sound, you can just point your antenna at Manhattan and likely pick up everything you want, including LP channels like WKOB and WASA after they move to RF 13.


----------



## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> Don't worry about CPTV. They are building a DTS site at the Empire state building which will reach Queens much better than their pre-repack signal from Connecticut did. Right now they are at reduced power from their Connecticut site while they build out the final facilities.
> 
> 
> If you care about Azteca, don't rely on WEDW's signal for it. It's only a temporary sharing arrangement until WTXX-LD can finish building their own signal that will be transmitting from a tower in West Hartford.
> 
> WNYN-LD is also transmitting from a temporary site in the Upper East side. Unfortunately their final site will be sharing with WNJJ-LD on a tower in West Orange, so you might have trouble getting them in Queens when everything is done. (Quite the move for a station that originally started as The Box affiiate for Deer Park in Suffolk County)
> 
> If Azteca is a must, you will likely need to rely on WKOB-LD's signal. Right now it's on RF 2, but it has a construction permit to move to RF 13 and spectrum share with WASA-LD (EstrellaTV) after WNET moves to RF 12 next Spring.
> 
> 
> You might be out of luck with WPXU. Since WNET will be displacing their RF 12 signal, they will be spectrum sharing with W31EF-D on RF 29. And since they need to protect WLNY, there's a giant null towards Long Island. If you do care about Daystar (and their internet stream isn't ideal for you), it is also carried on one of WKOB's subchannels.
> 
> 
> Most of Queens is so close that a preamp and even a distribution amp might be overkill. I would just wait it out and see how the reception of the LP channels you might care about are when they finish their moves. Plus, CPTV will be coming from the Empire State Building so you won't have to worry about attempting to find a sweet spot to pick it up from across the sound, you can just point your antenna at Manhattan and likely pick up everything you want, including LP channels like WKOB and WASA after they move to RF 13.


Nice update on wedw ch49, disagree on last paragraph, i use winegard d269 w/ 12db amplification,
I need to overcome lots obstacles, ei buildings in direct path to esb and 1wtc.. i'm 6 miles east from esb. Also i use antennadirect 91xg to boot


----------



## ansky212

As I mentioned last week, I sent an email to CPTV to see if they could provide any update on the status of the DTS from ESB. Up to this point I have not received any response. My guess is whoever reads those emails probably had no clue what I was talking about. I don't know who else to contact that would be able to provide an update.


----------



## somedudeAVS

stillonacrt said:


> Hi,
> 
> Curious if anyone else noticed a fairly severe audio sync problem on 2.3 DABL - at least with certain tuners.
> 
> Was at relative's house today and they use DTV-transition era Insignia/Zenith STB tuners (circa 2009) with CRTs.
> 
> I *think* I have briefly stopped on 2.3 while channel surfing and can't recall noticing anything amiss on a recent-model TV (also OTA) with built-in digital tuner.


I have had problems with 2.3 audio on two different tuners. My receiver can't lock on to the audio. Also problems recording 2.1 with a lot of break ups, even though I have a good signal. I think CBS hasn't configured something right.


----------



## ansky212

somedudeAVS said:


> I have had problems with 2.3 audio on two different tuners. My receiver can't lock on to the audio. Also problems recording 2.1 with a lot of break ups, even though I have a good signal. I think CBS hasn't configured something right.


Both of those channels are working fine for me. I record and watch CBS all the time. Sounds like a problem with your setup or equipment.


----------



## ansky212

As of today, WPIX 11.3 is now airing Court TV (replacing This TV).


----------



## KyL416

ThisTV is saying WLNY will pick it up on 55.3:
https://thistv.com/blog/this-tv-in-your-market/


----------



## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> ThisTV is saying WLNY will pick it up on 55.3:
> https://thistv.com/blog/this-tv-in-your-market/


Great, when will wlny move to nyc, no chance of pickin it up


----------



## KyL416

Never. Pre-repack it had to stay out on Long Island to keep CBS under the market ownership cap, the radio division has since been spunoff to Entercom, but now it's stuck where it is post-repack because the NYC dial is full. Plus Riverhead is outside of the contour of all the 1WTC and ESB stations, unlike Garden City where WLIW is licensed. WLNY did have repeaters in NYC, NJ, CT and western LI, but they weren't included as part of the sale to CBS that was finalized in 2012.

Some people in NJ and Staten Island with a good VHF-lo antenna pointed to the southwest might be able to pick it up via WDPN 2.7 after WKOB-LD leaves RF 2 for RF 13 next year.


----------



## LIantenna585

KyL416 said:


> ThisTV is saying WLNY will pick it up on 55.3:
> https://thistv.com/blog/this-tv-in-your-market/


Stadium is currently broadcasting on WLNY 55.3. I wonder what will happen with that channel, since I get a better signal of WLNY out here on Long Island that WRNN 48.2 or WCCT 20.4.


----------



## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> Never. Pre-repack it had to stay out on Long Island to keep CBS under the market ownership cap, the radio division has since been spunoff to Entercom, but now it's stuck where it is post-repack because the NYC dial is full. Plus Riverhead is outside of the contour of all the 1WTC and ESB stations, unlike Garden City where WLIW is licensed. WLNY did have repeaters in NYC, NJ, CT and western LI, but they weren't included as part of the sale to CBS that was finalized in 2012.
> 
> Some people in NJ and Staten Island with a good VHF-lo antenna pointed to the southwest might be able to pick it up via WDPN 2.7 after WKOB-LD leaves RF 2 for RF 13 next year.


Im kidding course they not gonna move, I picked up wlny back analog times, before they changed to digital 2009 or astc. wkob is leaving rf 2, any other tv station gonna be on that part of dial? I'm asking cos rf2 comes in great, wish an independent broadcaster would take over rf2


----------



## KyL416

No full power station in NYC can take RF 2 because of how close it is to WDPN in Philly who increased their power from 9.36 kW to 34 kW back in June, their new signal reaches into northern NJ and Staten Island with deep fringe coverage hitting parts of southern Manhattan. So any potential future RF 2 would have to be a low power signal for Long Island or the northern suburbs with a null to the southwest. That's why WKOB was granted a displacement to RF 13.

Besides the obvious ones (WJLP, WABC, WNJB, WPIX, WNET), RF 4 is taken by WPXO-LD, RF 5 will be taken by WNYX-LD, RF 6 is taken by WNYZ-LP, RF 9 will be taken by W09CZ, and RF 10 will be taken by WNXY-LD. While the UHF band is accounted for in NYC and the surrounding suburbs since RF 14-16 can't be assigned in NYC because of Land mobile use, and 19-20 have to be protected for land mobile use in nearby Philly.


----------



## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> No full power station in NYC can take RF 2 because of how close it is to WDPN in Philly who increased their power from 9.36 kW to 34 kW back in June, their new signal reaches into northern NJ and Staten Island with deep fringe coverage hitting parts of southern Manhattan. So any potential future RF 2 would have to be a low power signal for Long Island or the northern suburbs with a null to the southwest. That's why WKOB was granted a displacement to RF 13.
> 
> Besides the obvious ones (WJLP, WABC, WNJB, WPIX, WNET), RF 4 is taken by WPXO-LD, RF 5 will be taken by WNYX-LD, RF 6 is taken by WNYZ-LP, RF 9 will be taken by W09CZ, and RF 10 will be taken by WNXY-LD. While the UHF band is accounted for in NYC and the surrounding suburbs since RF 14-16 can't be assigned in NYC because of Land mobile use, and 19-20 have to be protected for land mobile use in nearby Philly.


I don't understand why broadcaster wnxy-ld has 3 channels or frequency, 18 mhz bandwidth, all the channels show the same programming, being that spectrum is so expensive, seems like a wasted spectrum.


----------



## KyL416

Because of how short spaced they are no one signal can cover that entire area, so they will each have highly directional signal patterns targetting different areas when they return to air. WNYX will transmit to the east to protect W22EW, WNXY will transmit to the south to protect WTNH, and WXNY will transmit to the northwest and southeast to protect WNJS and WFTY.


----------



## LIantenna585

Hi all,

I'm looking for recommendations for an outdoor antenna.

I live on Long Island, in the northwest part of Suffolk County. Here is my RabbitEars map: https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=24471

Currently, I have a flat plastic antenna that I place in a window sill facing west on my second floor. With this setup, I am able to reliably receive 2, 4/47, 5, 9/48, 21, 31, 41/68, 55, 63, and 67. With clear weather or by orienting the antenna a certain way I can receive 7, 25, and 34/43/49.

I have decided that I want to get an outdoor antenna so I can get reliable reception of more New York stations (especially those on VHF), like WJLP, WPIX, and WNET. I also want to try to get stations from Connecticut (New Haven/Hartford) if I point the antenna north.

Can anyone recommend certain antenna models or types that would fit my situation? Thanks in advance and any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Useeme1234

If you have clear line of sight i would try 2 of rca antennas one aimed at nyc other at connecticut using a diplexer to connect both antennas. You should get a lot stations with this setup.


----------



## KyL416

Diplexing an antenna pointing North would probably kill reception of WCBS and WPXN in that area of Long Island because of WFSB and WTIC. You would have to use a rotator or go for a more complex setup with RF 36 and RF 34 notch filters on the line coming from the Connecticut antenna.


----------



## Brian in CT

I concur with KyL416, it would probably be more cost efficient to go with one decent rooftop antenna with a rotor. I say decent because to receive anything in red (poor) on your Rabbit Ears results list, you'll need something the industry used to call "suburban" or "deep suburban." I don't think you would need an antenna rated "fringe." That might be going over the top. The only problem with a setup like that would be doing a scan for channels. Unless you have televisions that have a "manual tuning" option, it's going to be almost impossible to scan in all the TV stations you want from multiple directions. That is why some OTA TV viewers have two antennas pointed in different directions (other than not wanting to wait for a rotor to turn).

Lastly, you should beware that when atmospheric conditions are enhanced, WCBS and WFSB will probably kill each other off. Same thing with WPXN and WTIC. Over the last ten years, I have lost WCBS an average of 20 nights a year. A few times WFSB came in instead. Luckily, the WCBS repeater out your way on RF 22 will be on soon, but you probably already know about these co-channel problems.


----------



## LIantenna585

Useeme1234 said:


> If you have clear line of sight i would try 2 of rca antennas one aimed at nyc other at connecticut using a diplexer to connect both antennas. You should get a lot stations with this setup.





KyL416 said:


> Diplexing an antenna pointing North would probably kill reception of WCBS and WPXN in that area of Long Island because of WFSB and WTIC. You would have to use a rotator or go for a more complex setup with RF 36 and RF 34 notch filters on the line coming from the Connecticut antenna.





Brian in CT said:


> I concur with KyL416, it would probably be more cost efficient to go with one decent rooftop antenna with a rotor. I say decent because to receive anything in red (poor) on your Rabbit Ears results list, you'll need something the industry used to call "suburban" or "deep suburban." I don't think you would need an antenna rated "fringe." That might be going over the top. The only problem with a setup like that would be doing a scan for channels. Unless you have televisions that have a "manual tuning" option, it's going to be almost impossible to scan in all the TV stations you want from multiple directions. That is why some OTA TV viewers have two antennas pointed in different directions (other than not wanting to wait for a rotor to turn).
> 
> Lastly, you should beware that when atmospheric conditions are enhanced, WCBS and WFSB will probably kill each other off. Same thing with WPXN and WTIC. Over the last ten years, I have lost WCBS an average of 20 nights a year. A few times WFSB came in instead. Luckily, the WCBS repeater out your way on RF 22 will be on soon, but you probably already know about these co-channel problems.


Thanks for all the info. I'm more focused on receiving the "Poor" NYC stations (according to RabbitEars) than receiving the Connecticut stations. Does anyone have recommendations for specific models of "suburban" or "fringe" antennas that would work well? Thanks again for all of the help!


----------



## McShadyPL

Did anyone else lose reception for the higher channels like 55.x this week? I used to receive Stadium and recently started getting Comet, but now my TV no longer picks these up as of this week. I'm in midtown Manhattan facing north. Big disappointment.


----------



## Useeme1234

Colder and damp weather, diminishes the signal strength, I lose signal on wedw when weather is crap


----------



## AVdamsel

Hi - Newbie here based in downtown Brooklyn area.

I recently cut cord and got a Kingbox analog tuner and antenna. User manual is indecipherable, but managed to get it up and running. Did channel search and am getting all of the local biggies including CBS, NBC, Fox and PBS but NOT ABC.

Anyone have any advice - have run channel search a couple of times and it still doesn't pick up ABC. 

Thanks!


----------



## ansky212

AVdamsel said:


> Hi - Newbie here based in downtown Brooklyn area.
> 
> I recently cut cord and got a Kingbox analog tuner and antenna. User manual is indecipherable, but managed to get it up and running. Did channel search and am getting all of the local biggies including CBS, NBC, Fox and PBS but NOT ABC.
> 
> Anyone have any advice - have run channel search a couple of times and it still doesn't pick up ABC.
> 
> Thanks!


It would help to know what antenna you are using. WABC broadcasts on VHF so you need a VHF capable antenna. I'll bet you are not picking up WPIX either. They are also on VHF. In addition, WABC and WPIX broadcast from the Empire State Building, while the other channels you mention broadcast from One WTC. So you have to make sure your antenna is pointed somewhere in between these buildings in order to pick up all channels.


----------



## AVdamsel

ansky212 said:


> It would help to know what antenna you are using. WABC broadcasts on VHF so you need a VHF capable antenna. I'll bet you are not picking up WPIX either. They are also on VHF. In addition, WABC and WPIX broadcast from the Empire State Building, while the other channels you mention broadcast from One WTC. So you have to make sure your antenna is pointed somewhere in between these buildings in order to pick up all channels.


Thanks @ansky212!

The antenna is this one:
Indoor HD TV Antenna, 2019 Upgraded Digital Amplified 60-90 Mile Range HDTV Antenna 4K HD VHF UHF Freeview Television Local Channels Detachable Signal Amplifier and 16.5ft Longer Coax Cable
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FUB4ZG8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(let's see if AVS let's me post this link...)

It says it's VHF capable. But also don't seem to be picking up WPIX. Antenna is facing NE.


----------



## SnellKrell

AVdamsel said:


> Thanks @ansky212!
> 
> The antenna is this one:
> Indoor HD TV Antenna, 2019 Upgraded Digital Amplified 60-90 Mile Range HDTV Antenna 4K HD VHF UHF Freeview Television Local Channels Detachable Signal Amplifier and 16.5ft Longer Coax Cable
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FUB4ZG8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> (let's see if AVS let's me post this link...)
> 
> It says it's VHF capable. But also don't seem to be picking up WPIX. Antenna is facing NE.


I have found that these thin antennas leave a lot to be desired.

Also, you mentioned that your antenna is facing NE and that you live in Brooklyn.

The Empire State Building, the location of both WABC and WPIX, is NW of you.

Try tuning to WABC and slowly change the antenna's position.


----------



## logger-a

LIantenna585 said:


> I have decided that I want to get an outdoor antenna so I can get reliable reception of more New York stations (especially those on VHF), like WJLP, WPIX, and WNET. I also want to try to get stations from Connecticut (New Haven/Hartford) if I point the antenna north.
> 
> Can anyone recommend certain antenna models or types that would fit my situation? Thanks in advance and any advice would be appreciated.


An antenna that would likely be sufficiently sensitive to the signal of WJLP would need to be about 88 inches wide. The antenna would have a pair of rods of about 44 inches each with ends near each other where they attach to opposite sides of the boom part of the antenna.

For the other New York city market area VHF band stations, there should be pairs of rods of about 15 inches and 13 inches each. If the signals were strong enough, a single pair of rods of about 14 inches each would be sufficient.


----------



## Brian in CT

LIantenna585 said:


> Thanks for all the info. I'm more focused on receiving the "Poor" NYC stations (according to RabbitEars) than receiving the Connecticut stations. Does anyone have recommendations for specific models of "suburban" or "fringe" antennas that would work well? Thanks again for all of the help!


I have a Channel Master antenna on the roof (all band deep suburban). I picked it out of a brochure printed in the 1990's. It has worked well for almost 20 years and counting. Since then, Channel Master moved their manufacturing to China, and then just this year, to Bulgaria! I don't know how the quality of their products has been affected. So I'm at a loss on recommending the best antenna these days. I'm sure there will be users of this thread that will help you with your search.


----------



## ansky212

logger-a said:


> An antenna that would likely be sufficiently sensitive to the signal of WJLP would need to be about 88 inches wide. The antenna would have a pair of rods of about 44 inches each with ends near each other where they attach to opposite sides of the boom part of the antenna.
> 
> For the other New York city market area VHF band stations, there should be pairs of rods of about 15 inches and 13 inches each. If the signals were strong enough, a single pair of rods of about 14 inches each would be sufficient.


You are way overthinking it. You don't need an 88-inch wide antenna to pull in WJLP. I'm 10 miles outside the city and I have no problem pulling in WJLP as well as every other NYC channel using this small antenna. It's only 24 inches at it's widest point.

https://www.amazon.com/Antenna-Sate...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> You are way overthinking it. You don't need an 88-inch wide antenna to pull in WJLP. I'm 10 miles outside the city and I have no problem pulling in WJLP as well as every other NYC channel using this small antenna. It's only 24 inches at it's widest point.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Antenna-Sate...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


The original poster being responded to (LIantenna585) is nearly 40 miles away and is 1Edge. While you may have luck with an improperly designed antenna at 10 miles and (I assume) line of sight, it is unlikely that will be the case here.

- Trip


----------



## Useeme1234

Trip in VA said:


> The original poster being responded to (LIantenna585) is nearly 40 miles away and is 1Edge. While you may have luck with an improperly designed antenna at 10 miles and (I assume) line of sight, it is unlikely that will be the case here.
> 
> - Trip


Agreed, it works great for 20 so miles, but there is a limit.

Trip your website is outasight man.


----------



## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> You are way overthinking it. You don't need an 88-inch wide antenna to pull in WJLP. I'm 10 miles outside the city and I have no problem pulling in WJLP as well as every other NYC channel using this small antenna. It's only 24 inches at it's widest point.



I'm using simple thinking about the length that a dipole antenna needs to be so that it is very sensitive to a signal in physical channel 3. Someone at a location where the signal is very strong does not need an antenna that is very sensitive to the signal.


An 88-inch wide antenna would not pull in WJLP for me. There is too much distance and interfering terrain between me and NYC to get a usable signal from any TV transmitting antenna in or near NYC. Although, I did get a usable signal of WABC overnight early in July of this year.


I'll follow-up here about a statement that LIantenna585 made: "Currently, I have a flat plastic antenna that I place in a window sill facing west on my second floor." A rabbit ears style antenna that fits on the window sill may be able to receive a usable signal of the NYC area stations that use the upper VHF band: WABC, WPIX, and WNET. The length of the "ears" may need to be adjusted to be very sensitive to station to be viewed at the time.


----------



## Brian in CT

logger-a said:


> I'll follow-up here about a statement that LIantenna585 made: "Currently, I have a flat plastic antenna that I place in a window sill facing west on my second floor." A rabbit ears style antenna that fits on the window sill may be able to receive a usable signal of the NYC area stations that use the upper VHF band: WABC, WPIX, and WNET. The length of the "ears" may need to be adjusted to be very sensitive to station to be viewed at the time.


Maybe, but 40 miles over relatively flat terrain (which would have been good enough in analog days) is very likely too far for an ATSC 1.0 signal. In my experience, the limits of my Radio Shack rabbit ears and loop combo is typically around 20 miles +/-. I'm surprised his flat antenna is receiving signals from that far away to begin with.


----------



## LIantenna585

Trip in VA said:


> The original poster being responded to (LIantenna585) is nearly 40 miles away and is 1Edge. While you may have luck with an improperly designed antenna at 10 miles and (I assume) line of sight, it is unlikely that will be the case here.
> 
> - Trip


Correct. My current antenna is approximately 9" x 12" with a 15" diagonal. I have no idea what the actual antenna pattern inside the plastic is, but I will only get WABC or WPIX on a clear summer night and if I put the antenna in exactly the right position to get a lock.



logger-a said:


> I'll follow-up here about a statement that LIantenna585 made: "Currently, I have a flat plastic antenna that I place in a window sill facing west on my second floor." A rabbit ears style antenna that fits on the window sill may be able to receive a usable signal of the NYC area stations that use the upper VHF band: WABC, WPIX, and WNET. The length of the "ears" may need to be adjusted to be very sensitive to station to be viewed at the time.





Brian in CT said:


> Maybe, but 40 miles over relatively flat terrain (which would have been good enough in analog days) is very likely too far for an ATSC 1.0 signal. In my experience, the limits of my Radio Shack rabbit ears and loop combo is typically around 20 miles +/-. I'm surprised his flat antenna is receiving signals from that far away to begin with.


I think what has happened is that after a long amount of experimentation, I somehow found the exact position to put the antenna in the window so that I get a usable signal. I don't know if it has anything to do with multipath (my neighbor's house partially blocks line-of-sight to NYC), but if I tilt the antenna or move it just one inch from the position I have it in, I will lose the signals of most NYC channels. Perhaps I could buy the rabbit ears to test them out and return them if it doesn't work. Then I would just put something in the attic.


----------



## hancox

KyL416 said:


> Diplexing an antenna pointing North would probably kill reception of WCBS and WPXN in that area of Long Island because of WFSB and WTIC. You would have to use a rotator or go for a more complex setup with RF 36 and RF 34 notch filters on the line coming from the Connecticut antenna.


WFSB doesn't even appear on his rabbitears report, and the number of houses that can even theoretically receive both is ridiculously small - the topography just doesn't allow for it. WTIC *maybe* comes into play, but it's edge at best.

Trust me - i know - i have LOS to NY but live much closer to WFSB, and i don't even get a sniff of it.


----------



## KyL416

WFSB doesn't appear because he only ran a 60 mile report. Click the map to see the location, and then look at the general area in WFSB's propogation map:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...5c8950a81240&site=1&map=Y&coords=40.87,-73.27

The red marker is not in the exact location since the privacy option was enabled, but the surrounding area is red and in the vicinity of a giant blotch of yellow. A decent high gain antenna on the roof aimed correctly will likely pull in many of those non-cochannel "poor" Connecticut stations. If you blindly combine that antenna pointed at Connecticut without notch filters for RF 36 and RF 34, it will cause co-channel interference issues on WCBS and WPXN.

I lived in that exact same town in Suffolk County Long Island. The non-cochannel Connecticut stations are very easy to pick up with an antenna pointed at Connecticut because of cross sound reception, and when I started rotating my antenna towards the north, WCBS was the first channel I would lose. During those "good" nights, WFSB's presence was enough to kill reception of WCBS, even if my antenna was pointed at NYC instead of CT.


----------



## logger-a

Brian in CT said:


> Maybe, but 40 miles over relatively flat terrain (which would have been good enough in analog days) is very likely too far for an ATSC 1.0 signal. In my experience, the limits of my Radio Shack rabbit ears and loop combo is typically around 20 miles +/-. I'm surprised his flat antenna is receiving signals from that far away to begin with.


Using rabbits ears without a UHF element, such as a loop, I get a usable signal from a VHF band station 38 miles away. The antenna has to be placed against the glass of a window facing in the general direction of the station and the "ears" have to be adjusted to a length that is sufficiently sensitive for the station. There is terrain between me and the transmitting antenna that is higher than the line of site.


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## Brian in CT

LIantenna585 said:


> Correct. My current antenna is approximately 9" x 12" with a 15" diagonal. I have no idea what the actual antenna pattern inside the plastic is, but I will only get WABC or WPIX on a clear summer night and if I put the antenna in exactly the right position to get a lock.


Wow, that's a BIG flat antenna! I didn't even know they made them that size. That's why you are getting a sniff of the NYC TV signals. The "usual suspects" they shill on TV probably couldn't even match my Radio Shack loop. Either way, you are going to need an antenna with some VHF elements to receive WABC, WPIX & WNET (and if pointed north, WTNH), and bigger ones to receive WJLP. You can try rabbit ears, but unless you are as blessed as logger-a is, I wouldn't count on any reception from NYC. Remember, you will need at least a solid attic set up (or decent rooftop one) to receive the "poor" signals on your results list. As for which brand of antenna to buy, again, other users on this thread would be more knowledgeable than me on that.


----------



## logger-a

LIantenna585 said:


> Correct. My current antenna is approximately 9" x 12" with a 15" diagonal. I have no idea what the actual antenna pattern inside the plastic is, but I will only get WABC or WPIX on a clear summer night and if I put the antenna in exactly the right position to get a lock.


Thanks for posting the dimensions of the antenna and the link. It may be worthwhile to mention that the antenna is amplified and that WABC and WPIX broadcast from the Empire State Building rather than from the World Trade Center.


----------



## darkegg

WLIW seems to be offline since 1PM. I guess they're doing some work.


----------



## scorpiony

darkegg said:


> WLIW seems to be offline since 1PM. I guess they're doing some work.




Yes. No signal on UWS as well, usually getting a strong, steady signal 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> WLIW seems to be offline since 1PM. I guess they're doing some work.


This is very strange!

I verified this by checking out the Fair Lawn Live Bandscan tuner - nada!

The station has an AUX antenna facility on PEP 40 - had thought if there
were a problem with its main transmission, the AUX would have kicked in.

Looks like WLIW's entire !WTC facility is down.

Wonder what Durst has done now?


----------



## Useeme1234

Wliw is coming great, i see no problems at this time. wait i see is coming in with a weaker signal,
Could be weather related?


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## KyL416

The 3 area bandscans show it dropping out at around 1pm, and then returning briefly a few minutes ago before dropping out again:
Fair Lawn
Richmond Hill (Queens)
Poughkeepsie


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## ansky212

I'm getting WLIW at 100% signal strength from my location right now.


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## scorpiony

ansky212 said:


> I'm getting WLIW at 100% signal strength from my location right now.




Yes , it’s back here on UWS as well 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EF9500

LIantenna585 said:


> Correct. My current antenna is approximately 9" x 12" with a 15" diagonal. I have no idea what the actual antenna pattern inside the plastic is, but I will only get WABC or WPIX on a clear summer night and if I put the antenna in exactly the right position to get a lock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think what has happened is that after a long amount of experimentation, I somehow found the exact position to put the antenna in the window so that I get a usable signal. I don't know if it has anything to do with multipath (my neighbor's house partially blocks line-of-sight to NYC), but if I tilt the antenna or move it just one inch from the position I have it in, I will lose the signals of most NYC channels. Perhaps I could buy the rabbit ears to test them out and return them if it doesn't work. Then I would just put something in the attic.


Get the clearstream4....I have it, 60 miles out in stonybrook with an amp. I get everything from NYC.


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## ansky212

I'm picking up This TV on WLNY 55.4. Stadium is still live on 55.3 so I guess that will be sticking around.


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## Trip in VA

SnellKrell said:


> This is very strange!
> 
> I verified this by checking out the Fair Lawn Live Bandscan tuner - nada!
> 
> The station has an AUX antenna facility on PEP 40 - had thought if there
> were a problem with its main transmission, the AUX would have kicked in.
> 
> Looks like WLIW's entire !WTC facility is down.
> 
> Wonder what Durst has done now?


I have no inside information, but I'm wondering if they weren't testing the WLIW aux out on Long Island. They filed a license to cover for it on Tuesday.

- Trip


----------



## General Custer

Still no word on full power?


----------



## KyL416

The 1WTC UHF stations filed for their licenses to cover back in October. From the filings they made and the observations from the 3 area live bandscans in Queens, Fair Lawn and Poughkeepsie, that work was finished around 10/7.

WFUT/WXTV is still operating on a STA from Empire while they finish reconfiguring the antenna at ESB
WJLP/WNWT is still operating on their increased power STA from 4 Times Square until they complete their move to 1WTC
WEDW/WZME is still operating on a reduced power STA from their Connecticut site while they finish their final DTS facilities at CT and ESB
WMBC's application to move solely to 1WTC has yet to be granted
WNET isn't moving to RF 12 until Phase 9 next spring.

For Suffolk County CBS viewers affected by co-channel interference from WFSB, WCBS is still working on bringing their RF 22 repeater back to air from WLNY's tower.

Also for eastern Suffolk county, and fringe central Suffolk viewers, WVVH-CD in Southampton will be moving to RF 18 in Phase 7 with an increased coverage area.


----------



## McShadyPL

I'm really disappointed that I'm not picking up some of the higher channels like 55.x, including ThisTV. Is there any chance that the signal may increase in the future to reach Manhattan better? I live in Midtown Manhattan, and my indoor flat antenna only very rarely picks up these stations, albeit with a weak signal at best.


----------



## KyL416

Nope. WLNY is licensed to Riverhead, so they couldn't move to NYC like WLIW did. (Garden City is within the contour of the 1WTC stations, Riverhead is not) They already expanded their signal as much as they could during the maximization window. Unfortunately WLNY's former NJ, NYC and CT repeaters were not included in the sale to CBS and have since been sold to other parties.

Also in Manhattan RF 29 is going to be taken by WPXU-LD and W31EF-D next year since WPXU is being displaced from RF 12 by WNET, so what little fringe reception you now get from WLNY is going to be gone.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WEDW/WZME is still operating on a reduced power STA from their Connecticut site while they finish their final DTS facilities at CT and ESB


I was able to get in contact with several people at CPTV, including a station engineer, and nobody has been able to provide any update on the status of the DTS. My guess is this is on hold and I wouldn't expect it to go online anytime soon. Their construction permit expires in January, so I don't know if that gives them any incentive to speed things up or if they can just keep renewing that CP application indefinitely.


----------



## KyL416

From their Form 399 filings, it looks like they're focusing on building out the post-repack facility at the Trumbull site first.

They can easily request an extension of the CP and their current STA since the FCC is well aware of all the delays involving tower crews and shipments.


----------



## Trip in VA

KyL416 said:


> They can easily request an extension of the CP and their current STA since the FCC is well aware of all the delays involving tower crews and shipments.


Without getting too far into the legal morass, this is true. Stations are allowed only one six-month "extension," so if they need an extension beyond that, they have to file for tolling (or a waiver of tolling, but again, I'm avoiding the legal morass). I'm pretty sure the FCC has not yet turned down a single request for tolling (or a waiver of tolling) that has come in.

So if you see a filing in LMS that says "Tolling" as the type of filing, that's a request for a further extension.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> From their Form 399 filings, it looks like they're focusing on building out the post-repack facility at the Trumbull site first.
> 
> They can easily request an extension of the CP and their current STA since the FCC is well aware of all the delays involving tower crews and shipments.


What are they building out at Trumbull? I thought they were staying in the same location where they have always been.

For the ESB location are they going to be using an existing antenna or is there a completely new antenna that will need to be installed? If it's the latter, I could see that being a very lengthy process.


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> What are they building out at Trumbull? I thought they were staying in the same location where they have always been.


The RF 21 facility at Trumbull is operating on a reduced power STA from a temporary directional antenna lower on the tower. They need to replace the pre-repack RF 49 antenna with one for RF 21, and replace other equipment like the transmission line.



> For the ESB location are they going to be using an existing antenna or is there a completely new antenna that will need to be installed? If it's the latter, I could see that being a very lengthy process.


The technical exhibit for the DTS application mentions installing a new antenna.


----------



## logger-a

KyL416 said:


> The technical exhibit for the DTS application mentions installing a new antenna.


A detail that may be worth mentioning is that the DTS application and the prior post-repack application list different antennas with different signal coverage patterns to be used at the top of the Trumbull tower. The DTS application lists an non-directional pattern, while the prior post-repack application lists a pattern that is likely the same as the pre-repack (RF 49) pattern.


----------



## NYC

I noticed that reception of WNET has improved, it is still weak but much improved over what was available the last few weeks. Also disappointed over losing This TV. WLNY is not easy to tune in in NYC, and annoyed that WJLP has duplicates of Laff and CourtTV. I assume that their news and weather channels are mirrored, but needless duplicates should not take up space.


----------



## MadMan400096

In the case of Court TV, I think Katz signed the deal to put it on WJLP as a stopgap, since WPIX didn't add it until a couple of weeks ago. They clearly wanted some form of head start in the biggest market in the country, even if it looks totally redundant now that they have a more widely available affiliate.


----------



## NYC

MadMan400096 said:


> In the case of Court TV, I think Katz signed the deal to put it on WJLP as a stopgap, since WPIX didn't add it until a couple of weeks ago. They clearly wanted some form of head start in the biggest market in the country, even if it looks totally redundant now that they have a more widely available affiliate.


Thanks for that info. Hopefully, WJLP will drop the duplication of CourtTv and bring This TV back to the greater metro area. On the other hand, WJLP and WABC have both been airing Laff for years. I believe WABC added Laff when the network launched in 2015, with WJLP duplicating coverage since 2016.
It would also be great if CBS could find a way to get a decent signal from WLNY into the New York City and NJ areas without the need for a dedicated antenna for that one station.
Lastly, it seems that WNET is back to the way it was a few days ago, just about impossible to tune in at all.


----------



## KyL416

Unfortunately the dial in the 5 boroughs is packed solid with all the LP and class A stations, including some occupying the channel numbers of the Suffolk County signals like WFTY (23) and WLNY (29):
2 - WDPN overspill (Their boosted signal now reaches into Northern NJ, Staten Island and southern Manhattan, which is why WKOB-LD was granted a displacement)
3 - WJLP/WNWT-LD
4 - WPXO-LD
5 - WNYX-LD
6 - WNYZ-LP
7 - WABC
8 - WNJB/WNJN
9 - W09CZ-D
10 - WNXY-LD
11 - WPIX
12 - WNET/WMBQ-CD/WNDT-CD
13 - WKOB-LD/WASA-LD
14 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
15 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
16 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
17 - W20EF-D or WNMF-LD (WLNY's former Stamford and NJ repeaters, while their former NYC repeater that became WMUN-CD cashed out in the auction)
18 - WMBC
19 - Reserved for land mobile use in Nassau county and nearby Philly
20 - W20CQ-D Hempstead (And land mobile use in nearby Philly, which prevents stations southwest of Long Island from using it)
21 - WEDW/WZME
22 - WDVB-CD/WTBY
23 - WXNY-LD
24 - WNYE
25 - WWOR/WRNN
26 - WFUT/WXTV
27 - WNYW
28 - WNYJ-LD or W28ES-D
29 - W31EF-D/WPXU-LD
30 - WNJJ-LD/WNYN-LD
31 - W34DI-D
32 - WLIW
33 - W41DO-D
34 - WPXN
35 - WNJU/WNBC
36 - WCBS

The most CBS could probably do is put a simulcast of WLNY on a subchannel of WCBS, which would help OTA viewers on those nights in the summer where CBS programming is bumped to WLNY for pre-season football or when they occasionally bump CBS's daytime programming to WLNY for special coverage of things like the 9/11 memorial or championship parades, but it won't help those who want Comet or This TV.

WNET hasn't been authorized for any additional increase in power since they moved to 1WTC in Summer 2018 and won't be increasing their power again until they move to RF 12 next spring. You might be affected from occasional co-channel atmospheric interference by WYOU Scranton, WNYA Albany or even WGBY Springfield if the conditions are right. The Fair Lawn and Queens bandscans haven't shown any changes recently, while the Poughkeepsie bandscan appears to be in an area where co-channel interference from WNYA and WGBY would be a regular occurance. Unfortunately it won't be any better for that area after WNET moves to RF 12 since Poughkeepsie is inside WNYT's RF 12 contour.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> The most CBS could probably do is put a simulcast of WLNY on a subchannel of WCBS, which would help OTA viewers on those nights in the summer where CBS programming is bumped to WLNY for pre-season football or when they occasionally bump CBS's daytime programming to WLNY for special coverage of things like the 9/11 memorial or championship parades, but it won't help those who want Comet or This TV.


I have been wondering about this for years. My guess is there is some regulation that will not allow a full power station to be rebroadcast as a subchannel on another full power station. I would also guess that WLNY has very low OTA viewership to begin with given that anyone on LI with an antenna is going to have it pointed west towards NYC.


----------



## KyL416

There is no such regulation, it happens all the time in other markets, especially in markets where stations don't all come from the same area. 

Like in Philly WDPN now has a simulcast on WFMZ 69.3 in Allentown, in NEPA WSWB Scranton and WQMY Williamsport are simulcasted on WOLF's subchannels, while in Williamsport WSWB and WOLF are simulcasted on WQMY's subchannels. Long before the repack was a thing, NBC was already doing it with their O&O's in markets where their Telemundo and NBC stations transmitted from different tower sites, like Philly who had a WWSI simulcast mapped to 62-3 on WCAU's Philly signal and a WCAU simulcast mapped to 10-3 on WWSI's Atlantic City signal. Univision did it too prior to the auction when they added a simulcast of WXTV to WFUT's and WFTY's signals.


What likely initially prevented them from adding a subchannel simulcast was the ownership cap involving their then radio stations, and is likely why the sale didn't include WLNY's NYC/CT/NJ repeaters. What let CBS get WLNY without needing to divest any of their NYC AM and FM stations was that its signal didn't reach Manhattan and WCBS's signal didn't reach Riverhead, but they have since spunoff the CBS Radio division to Entercom so that isn't an issue anymore.

Also, out on Suffolk County, WLNY (and WFTY) are strong enough that you can get them with rear reception when your antenna is pointed at NYC. Futher west the closer you get to the Nassau/Queens border is where they would have been served by WLNY's repeaters like the now defunct WMUN-CD and their Plainview repeater that, at least according to the FCC records, is still broadcasting on air via the analog WLIG-LP on channel 17 from the roof of their Melville Studio. I think I saw a trace of it when I was staying at a hotel in Commack in September, unfortunately my room was on the wrong side of the building and I was only using the small antenna that came with my Hauppauge USB stick, so it could have been electromechanical interference from the building. I'll try to check again next time I'm at my cousin's place in Wheatly Heights with my laptop, but if anyone else on LI wants to check if it's actually on air, it has a very small coverage area between exits 48-50 of the LIE:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...pplicationId=d439aae0a9d3403b9e62cf6212b6c0ea


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## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> Unfortunately the dial in the 5 boroughs is packed solid with all the LP and class A stations, including some occupying the channel numbers of the Suffolk County signals like WFTY (23) and WLNY (29):
> 2 - WDPN overspill (Their boosted signal now reaches into Northern NJ, Staten Island and southern Manhattan, which is why WKOB-LD was granted a displacement)
> 3 - WJLP/WNWT-LD
> 4 - WPXO-LD
> 5 - WNYX-LD
> 6 - WNYZ-LP
> 7 - WABC
> 8 - WNJB/WNJN
> 9 - W09CZ-D
> 10 - WNXY-LD
> 11 - WPIX
> 12 - WNET/WMBQ-CD/WNDT-CD
> 13 - WKOB-LD/WASA-LD
> 14 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
> 15 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
> 16 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
> 17 - W20EF-D or WNMF-LD (WLNY's former Stamford and NJ repeaters, while their former NYC repeater that became WMUN-CD cashed out in the auction)
> 18 - WMBC
> 19 - Reserved for land mobile use in Nassau county and nearby Philly
> 20 - W20CQ-D Hempstead (And land mobile use in nearby Philly, which prevents stations southwest of Long Island from using it)
> 21 - WEDW/WZME
> 22 - WDVB-CD/WTBY
> 23 - WXNY-LD
> 24 - WNYE
> 25 - WWOR/WRNN
> 26 - WFUT/WXTV
> 27 - WNYW
> 28 - WNYJ-LD or W28ES-D
> 29 - W31EF-D/WPXU-LD
> 30 - WNJJ-LD/WNYN-LD
> 31 - W34DI-D
> 32 - WLIW
> 33 - W41DO-D
> 34 - WPXN
> 35 - WNJU/WNBC
> 36 - WCBS
> 
> The most CBS could probably do is put a simulcast of WLNY on a subchannel of WCBS, which would help OTA viewers on those nights in the summer where CBS programming is bumped to WLNY for pre-season football or when they occasionally bump CBS's daytime programming to WLNY for special coverage of things like the 9/11 memorial or championship parades, but it won't help those who want Comet or This TV.
> 
> WNET hasn't been authorized for any additional increase in power since they moved to 1WTC in Summer 2018 and won't be increasing their power again until they move to RF 12 next spring. You might be affected from occasional co-channel atmospheric interference by WYOU Scranton, WNYA Albany or even WGBY Springfield if the conditions are right. The Fair Lawn and Queens bandscans haven't shown any changes recently, while the Poughkeepsie bandscan appears to be in an area where co-channel interference from WNYA and WGBY would be a regular occurance. Unfortunately it won't be any better for that area after WNET moves to RF 12 since Poughkeepsie is inside WNYT's RF 12 contour.


Why is wnyx alloted 3 channels? you gave me an explanation before, i know is so ludocrouis
3 channels that are total bs programming. you could put comet tv, thistv, retrotv, what a total sham.


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## KyL416

They were "alloted" multiple channels because they were originally seperate stations with different ethnic and local community programming during the analog era and through a bunch of sales they ended up carrying the various CCTV channels on them when they were still analog only, and continued to do so after they flashcut to digital, in addition to adding other non-CCTV subchannel nets on some of them.

Like I mentioned before the signals are highly directional and targetting different parts of the area because of how short spaced they are to other stations on those numbers in various directions (i.e. WTNH/WCTX on RF 10, WNJS/WNJT and WFTY on RF 23, etc) Unless you live in close proximity to the Citigroup building in Queens, many people further out in places like Brooklyn, Manhattan, Staten Island, Bronx, Westchester, New Jersey and Nassau County will only have reliable reception of one of their stations.

As for their programming, in addition to the CGTN/CCTV channels, WXNY and WNYX DID carry other networks like Retro TV and Rev'n before WLIW displaced them from RF 32 and they went silent. Their sister station in Houston carries some other channels like Heartland and The Country Network, so it's possible they will add them too when they return to air.


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## General Custer

So, is the WCBS signal from the Antenna at WTC going to increase its power to help those of us in suffolk and/or are we dependent on them setting up a repeater at the WLNY antenna on channel 22?


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## SnellKrell

General Custer said:


> So, is the WCBS signal from the Antenna at WTC going to increase its power to help those of us in suffolk and/or are we dependent on them setting up a repeater at the WLNY antenna on channel 22?


Channel 22!


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## General Custer

SnellKrell said:


> Channel 22!


When?

I need it like yesterday !


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## SnellKrell

General Custer said:


> When?
> 
> I need it like yesterday !


Continues to be listed as a "Granted Construction Permit" on RabbitEars.

Why not call the station?


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## KyL416

General Custer said:


> So, is the WCBS signal from the Antenna at WTC going to increase its power to help those of us in suffolk and/or are we dependent on them setting up a repeater at the WLNY antenna on channel 22?


The 1WTC UHF stations, including WCBS, completed their power increase back in October. Suffolk County's issue is co-channel interference from WFSB, that's why the repeater is needed. And because of that same co-channel issue (along with WMGM in Atlantic City), WCBS can't increase their power on RF 36 anymore than they already did during the maximization window:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...25076ff36c4dc2ee016c5c8950a81240&cir=&circen=

Like SnellKrell said, you'll need to ask WCBS for an update on the timeline for that. Hopefully it's just a matter of getting a crew there since from the application it appears they will be reusing the same antenna they had last time the RF 22 repeater was on the air and only making tweaks to the power and beam tilt.


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## Useeme1234

I know you guys talk about wfsb ch3 hartford being ptoblematic for folks on LI, but i know lot
of folks that live in southern connecticut cant get a sniff from wfsb, is over more hills, than from rattlesnake mt. if you see their signal pattern it doesnt reach LI. the distance from nyc to avon mt, around 100 air miles, Im not disputing that there is co-channel interference, just it can be other types of interference, ie, manmade, just a thought


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## rothe

Is NJTV coming through for the rest of the world? I was up on the roof yesterday, re-orienting and securing my antenna after the winds from a few days ago, and have not been receiving NJTV since before the weekend's high winds. Everything else is coming through at 90-100, no dropouts, no pixelation, perfect DVR recordings, but no NJTV.



Did I just happen to catch a dead zone in my antenna orientation, or is it down for the rest of you?


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## ansky212

rothe said:


> Is NJTV coming through for the rest of the world? I was up on the roof yesterday, re-orienting and securing my antenna after the winds from a few days ago, and have not been receiving NJTV since before the weekend's high winds. Everything else is coming through at 90-100, no dropouts, no pixelation, perfect DVR recordings, but no NJTV.
> 
> 
> 
> Did I just happen to catch a dead zone in my antenna orientation, or is it down for the rest of you?


I have never been able to pull in NJTV from Essex County ever since they abandoned the Montclair transmitter. They are on the wrong side of the mountain now for me.


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## KyL416

Useeme1234 said:


> if you see their signal pattern it doesnt reach LI


Did you even look at the propogation map for their signal? It clearly covers Long Island's north shore communities and even hits the south shore in some spots with favorable terrain. Hills also have their most extreme effects in the vicinity of the hill, but further away reception improves, which is why you have deadspots behind the hills, followed by red that eventually changes to orange and yellow.

The Long Island Sound also acts as a direct reception path that lessens the effect that distance would normally have. Notice all the red and some yellow and orange over northern Suffolk county and even portions of northern Nassau. On a "good" day that's enough to kill reception of WCBS. And real world experience from several members in that area of Long Island have confirmed so, to the point that there's times on "extreme" days when they have decoded the PSIP for WFSB instead of WCBS.

WCBS also mentioned the interference from WFSB on Long Island in their original engineering narrative for a LI repeater filed back in 2009 after the digital transition:


> Further, service loss is predicted to occur within the digital Channel 33 contour area on Long Island and southern Connecticut due to incoming interference


They mentioned it again in their 2012 narrative when they filed to change the site from WLIW's tower to WLNY's tower.



Useeme1234 said:


> but i know lot of folks that live in southern connecticut cant get a sniff from wfsb, is over more hills, than from rattlesnake mt.


Those people in Southern CT have the reverse problem, it's not just the hills, but WCBS's signal affecting them too:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...qz=N&lprw=N&head=Y&asrn=&extras=&cir=&circen=


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## General Custer

The WCBS signal does seem to be stronger then it was in the summer. I’m getting 75-82% quality now when In the summer it wouldn’t lock here on the north shore of suffolk in East setauket. Didn’t know if the power had increased or if this was due to the leaves coming off the trees.


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## Brian in CT

Amen, KyL416. Back in analog days, I received WFSB & WTIC very well when I pointed my rooftop antenna at them. For the past ten years, it has taken very little atmospheric enhancement for WFSB to kill the signal of WCBS. Back in July, I asked the engineer at WCBS when the RF 22 repeater was coming back on the air. He said "sometime in the fall." Well, fall is almost over. Maybe I should ask again soon.


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## EF9500

General Custer said:


> The WCBS signal does seem to be stronger then it was in the summer. I’m getting 75-82% quality now when In the summer it wouldn’t lock here on the north shore of suffolk in East setauket. Didn’t know if the power had increased or if this was due to the leaves coming off the trees.


Probably the leaves. I am in stony brook, with a cs4 on roof with amp, but have been locked on cbs, even when they were lower power during the summer. Whats your setup?


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## General Custer

EF9500 said:


> Probably the leaves. I am in stony brook, with a cs4 on roof with amp, but have been locked on cbs, even when they were lower power during the summer. Whats your setup?


Same antenna as you (40 ft in the air) with an amp. I would have thought an increase in power would have helped some. Guess I’m waiting for the resumption of channel 22. Hopefully it airs before the leaves grow back


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## speedlaw

ansky212 said:


> I have never been able to pull in NJTV from Essex County ever since they abandoned the Montclair transmitter. They are on the wrong side of the mountain now for me.


At the beginning of HDTV, I watched a lot of 50.1 from this transmitter. They used to run an uncompressed one channel feed of HDTV, clearly shot by an engineer taking a camera to the boardwalk...in a loop.

I miss HDTV with no .x channels, although WLIW has now filled the PBS gap NJTV used to


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## EF9500

General Custer said:


> Same antenna as you (40 ft in the air) with an amp. I would have thought an increase in power would have helped some. Guess I’m waiting for the resumption of channel 22. Hopefully it airs before the leaves grow back


Wow, you must have something(trees) blocking the signal. Thats a bummer.


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## General Custer

What’s frustrating is that all the other channels from the wtc come in with 100% strength and at least 99s in quality. CBS is 100 strength but with less then 50% quality in the summer and 70s after the leaves have fallen. I am across the street from the sound to the north and three houses from conscious bay to the west so there really isn’t anything but trees that could block the signal.


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## Useeme1234

General Custer said:


> What’s frustrating is that all the other channels from the wtc come in with 100% strength and at least 99s in quality. CBS is 100 strength but with less then 50% quality in the summer and 70s after the leaves have fallen. I am across the street from the sound to the north and three houses from conscious bay to the west so there really isn’t anything but trees that could block the signal.


I was wondering can you get hartford stations from your location?


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## KyL416

General Custer said:


> I am across the street from the sound to the north


That's the bigger issue for you. The closer you are to the sound, the greater the effect WFSB's interference is, since the water acts like a direct reception path to the Connecticut shoreline. On the propogation map for WFSB's signal much of East Setauket is covered in yellow and there's even some blotches of green in the vicinity.



> What’s frustrating is that all the other channels from the wtc come in with 100% strength and at least 99s in quality. CBS is 100 strength but with less then 50% quality in the summer and 70s after the leaves have fallen.


The other WTC channels outside of WPXN don't have that issue since they aren't co-channel with Connecticut signals. The "strength" meter is how strong the detected RF signal on that channel number is, the important one is the "quality" meter which is usually the signal/noise ratio. Even if you can't decode WFSB where you are, its presence creates extra noise that needs to be overcome on RF 36, so it lowers the quality reading of the WCBS signal.

Also, since WCBS and the rest of the WTC UHF stations were at reduced power between August 1st until around October 7th, I wouldn't worry too much about how low your readings were this past summer. With WCBS at reduced power while WFSB was already at full power, you weren't experiencing what your reception of WCBS's post-repack signal will be under "normal" summer conditions.

Hopefully the RF 22 translator will be back on the air in the near future since they said no tower work is needed in the application:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f916b48c6aa016b6c27c75f2fe5


> As proposed herein, the WCBS-TV DRT will continue to operate on Channel 22 with its existing antenna, location, and height...No tower work is required to carry out this proposal and no change to the overall structure height will result


----------



## Brian in CT

General Custer said:


> What’s frustrating is that all the other channels from the wtc come in with 100% strength and at least 99s in quality. CBS is 100 strength but with less then 50% quality in the summer and 70s after the leaves have fallen. I am across the street from the sound to the north and three houses from conscious bay to the west so there really isn’t anything but trees that could block the signal.


If it were trees/leaves, you would also be having trouble receiving the other UHF signals from WTC. The fact that WFSB is putting out one million watts, and Long Island Sound is barely degrading its signal (and in certain conditions will ENHANCE it), co-channel interference is definitely killing your WCBS signal. This makes me curious about whether you can receive WPXN (Ion) on RF channel 34 from WTC. I would think WTIC in Hartford would be messing with that signal too, even though theirs is only half as strong as WFSB.


----------



## rothe

ansky212 said:


> I have never been able to pull in NJTV from Essex County ever since they abandoned the Montclair transmitter. They are on the wrong side of the mountain now for me.



That doesn't really address my concern. I'm trying to determine if there's a RECENT change in signal strength or quality at the transmitter, or on my end.



Thanks for replying. You were the only one.


----------



## LenL

rothe said:


> That doesn't really address my concern. I'm trying to determine if there's a RECENT change in signal strength or quality at the transmitter, or on my end.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for replying. You were the only one.



Rothe, I am receiving it just fine with my home built VHF 3 element Yagi I built just for NJTV and aimed at basking ridge.. It seems like an issue on your end


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## KyL416

There's nothing on file about WNJB reducing power on their RF 8 signal. They're keeping the same facility they had since 2011.

The live bandscan in Queens doesn't show any recent changes:
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WNJB

They do have an Aux facility lower on the tower, but if they were operating on that, the Queens bandscan would have shown a major drop in reception.


----------



## General Custer

Brian in CT said:


> If it were trees/leaves, you would also be having trouble receiving the other UHF signals from WTC. The fact that WFSB is putting out one million watts, and Long Island Sound is barely degrading its signal (and in certain conditions will ENHANCE it), co-channel interference is definitely killing your WCBS signal. This makes me curious about whether you can receive WPXN (Ion) on RF channel 34 from WTC. I would think WTIC in Hartford would be messing with that signal too, even though theirs is only half as strong as WFSB.


Why would the cbs signal get better with the leaves down. Shouldn’t the leaves being down help to strengthen the fsb signal from Connecticut and so cbs should continue to not lock on?

I typically only pull in wtnh and wcct from across the water.


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## KyL416

When did you specifically get WCBS back? Did you get it back in October when they increased their power, or more recently in late November when all the leaves fell?

The leaves have their biggest effect when they are in the vicinity of the receiving antenna, so any trees between WFSB's tower and the Connecticut shoreline wouldn't be affecting you. Plus, since you are right across the street from the sound, what little trees exists in that direction between you and the sound wouldn't really affect how strong the interference from WFSB's signal is being received. It usually needs to be something more dense for it to affect things.


----------



## Brian in CT

General Custer said:


> Why would the cbs signal get better with the leaves down. Shouldn’t the leaves being down help to strengthen the fsb signal from Connecticut and so cbs should continue to not lock on?
> 
> I typically only pull in wtnh and wcct from across the water.


WCBS raised its power last month, so that is probably why it's coming in better. If you have a stand of trees in the path of the UHF TV signal you are trying to get, then yes, that could be part of the reason. The fact that you can receive WCCT in Hartford means co-channel interference is the prime suspect. The transmitters for WFSB & WTIC are nearby, with WFSB putting out more power than WCCT. I'm afraid that the only way you're going to receive WCBS consistently, is when their repeater on RF 22 in Long Island comes back on the air.


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## LIantenna585

KyL416 said:


> Futher west the closer you get to the Nassau/Queens border is where they would have been served by WLNY's repeaters like the now defunct WMUN-CD and their Plainview repeater that, at least according to the FCC records, is still broadcasting on air via the analog WLIG-LP on channel 17 from the roof of their Melville Studio. I think I saw a trace of it when I was staying at a hotel in Commack in September, unfortunately my room was on the wrong side of the building and I was only using the small antenna that came with my Hauppauge USB stick, so it could have been electromechanical interference from the building. I'll try to check again next time I'm at my cousin's place in Wheatly Heights with my laptop, but if anyone else on LI wants to check if it's actually on air, it has a very small coverage area between exits 48-50 of the LIE:
> https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...pplicationId=d439aae0a9d3403b9e62cf6212b6c0ea


I emailed someone who was listed as a Technical Representative for WLIG-LP in their most recent FCC filing (a 2013 Amendment to a Digital Flash Cut for LPTV Station Application), and they confirmed that "the station is currently broadcasting on analog channel 17 from its transmitter site in Melville, NY."

I live in Commack (about 10 miles from the transmitter and outside the coverage area shown), but there is no trace of any signal when I tune to channel 17 with a Hauppauge HVR-955Q. Like you, I was only using the small antenna that came with the tuner. I might drive down to Melville sometime and see what signal I get there.


----------



## RichNorthNJ

Am i seeing things, or are some programs on METV, such as Gunsmoke & Lost In Space, that were originally on FILM for 50 years now appear to look LIVE ON VIDEOTAPE on that network!! Santa Maria! 
As if it weren't bad enough that the top & bottom of Lost in Space is chopped off to fit widescreen TVs(& they just had the NERVE to release DVD's that you can buy that are widescreen for this show!), now the above change from film to live video happens! What next??!!
It's kind of hard to describe just HOW you can tell Lost in Space looks live now - it just does!!!
& seeing that show like that bothers me!!! I do not like seeing it that way!!
Why would METV do that? I wonder if the widescreen dvd's look live too.
Imagine if Heroes & Icons decides to do that to Star Trek TOS(which i believe is still shown uncut, unlike on METV).
Best to buy the original DVD's or hope another LIS marathon comes to Decades & the shows are not cut, not chopped off top & bottom, or at the very LEAST not converted from film to "live tape"!


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## Useeme1234

I feel for you, they also cut out scenes in the shows for time constraint, i was shocked when i saw star trek (tos) I think it was the doomsday machine, they cut the ending part, so can they put more advertising, wtf..


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## Brian in CT

RichNorthNJ said:


> Am i seeing things, or are some programs on METV, such as Gunsmoke & Lost In Space, that were originally on FILM for 50 years now appear to look LIVE ON VIDEOTAPE on that network!!


I believe most (if not all) of the OTA classic TV diginets have had their show libraries DIGITIZED. No need to store physical media anywhere if it is all digital. That might be the reason for the "live on videotape" look.


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## mrradiohead55

Brian in CT said:


> I believe most (if not all) of the OTA classic TV diginets have had their show libraries DIGITIZED. No need to store physical media anywhere if it is all digital. That might be the reason for the "live on videotape" look.


Almost everything seen on broadcast TV that is archived content (reruns etc.) has been converted to digital. For viewing on the new LCD and plasma TV's, the *look* is being altered by a process called "film look", by 3rd party production companies. MeTV has been airing that type of product for awhile now.

You can read about it here, if you want to know the story behind the process...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_look


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## LIantenna585

I happened to be on the LIE today so I brought my Hauppauge to see if I could get a signal for WLIG-LP. I can indeed confirm that WLIG-LP is still on the air. The signal was best between exits 48 and 49.

WLIG-LP is repeating WLNY. It was showing the same program as what was on WLNY at the time (The Verdict with Judge Hatchett). The only differences were the “PLAINVIEW, NY” bug shown at the bottom left of WLIG-LP’s feed (it’s city of license is Plainview according to the FCC website) and the fact that the WLIG-LP feed has no audio. I attached a screenshot of WLIG-LP from WinTV.

It’s pretty cool that there are still analog stations broadcasting on LI today. Thanks for pointing this out, @KyL416!


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## KEVINL71

Why do we still have any stations on the air in analog in 2019? Would any cable companies even carry these stations if they're not a network affiliate?


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## KyL416

They're LP stations, so it was already strictly optional for cable providers to carry them. Even digital LP and Class A stations have little chance of getting cable carriage unless they are affiliated with a major network, or a lesser network where there's local interest, like Azteca via WNYN-LD or WKOB-LD or Estrella via WASA-LD. Many of them are targetting audiences that don't subscribe to cable and carry ethnic or religious programming, or use it as a source of income via shopping/infomercials and/or brokered programming, while those networks they carry make their own seperate carriage deals directly with the various cable and satellite providers.

Much of them are still on analog because of budget reasons, now that the FCC opened up 399 funds for displaced LPTV stations, a bunch of them will use that funding to flashcut to digital. Then of course you got the numerous analog 6's like WNYZ-LP who will continue to operate as franken-FM stations on 87.7 until they are forced to switch to digital.

WLIG-LP is an oddball, it's a simulcast of WLNY which was sold to CBS. WLNY's other former repeaters were sold to 3rd parties that converted them to digital, one of which cashed out in the spectrum auction, while WLIG-LP is still owned by their former owners. They have a construction permit to flashcut to digital, but don't appear to be in any hurry to do so.


----------



## EF9500

General Custer said:


> Why would the cbs signal get better with the leaves down. Shouldn’t the leaves being down help to strengthen the fsb signal from Connecticut and so cbs should continue to not lock on?
> 
> I typically only pull in wtnh and wcct from across the water.


Crazy idea, try taking the one deflector on the back that is on the CT side, and somehow mount it 90 degrees, blocking the ct signal.


----------



## KyL416

WCBS filed the license to cover for their RF 22 translator.


----------



## LenL

I have a question that is sort of off topic but I can't find the right forum to post it on. Anyone know where I can ask for help?



I was watching the Amazing Mrs. Maisal on Amazon prime on my Samsung 4K TV (Samsung 65" Class (64.5" Diag.) 4K UHD LED
LCD TV 65NU8) and noticed I could watch it in either 4K or 1080p.


So I experimented and tried both versions and I was surprised the 1080p version was sharper and brighter. Really good.



Watching the 4k version was a step backwards. Was not sharp and kind of dull.



Not sure what is going on. I have Optimum with 100+ internet service so I don't think my internet download is an issue.


The TV does have a picture setting to turn on HDR+ which I did. Did not do anything to help.


----------



## Useeme1234

Your tv is edge lit television unlike full array led, so is not going to be bright on the whole screen as the former mentioned full array.


----------



## MTVhike

I am thinking about pulling the cord on DirectTV, because of their pricing. I used to use OTA (from Stony Brook), primarily for PBS. I got NJTV, WNET, WLIW, and others, but my wife objected to the poor audio quality from WNET (dropouts prevented her from understanding the entire thread). What changes have been made in the last, say 5 years, that might affect my decision? I'll go home and reorient my antenna and rescan, but what should I expect? Other stations I was able to get was all the high band VHF stations, but not able to get CBS, NBC, or FOX-5 on their new (then) UHF channels.

I understand TV Fool is wrong in many cases, but is there other software for searching for signal strength information?


----------



## KyL416

Use the search at Rabbitears.info:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php
Be sure to change the distance to 80 miles on the search, so we can see how much the Connecticut stations like WTIC and WFSB will affect you from across the sound.

The repack happened which would be the biggest thing, along with WNET and most of the major UHF stations moving to the new 1WTC with a larger coverage area instead of the Empire State Building. WCBS also now has a repeater from WLNY's tower, so that should be easier to get for you. WLIW also moved from Long Island to 1WTC so that will be harder for you to get, and NJTV now only transmits from the RF 8 signal in New Brunswick which is further west than WNJN's old UHF signal in Montclair.

WFUT/WXTV is still transmitting at reduced power from temporary facilities, but in Stony Brook you'll get both of them as subchannels on WFTY's signal.

WJLP also moved into the city on VHF 3 back in 2014, it has MeTV and a bunch of other subchannel networks, but you'll need a decent VHF-lo capable antenna to get that.


----------



## MTVhike

Thanks, KyL. After I did the rescan, there were NO PBS stations. WCBS and WNBC did appear (they hadn't been receivable by me before); WABC and WPIX were still there. So I guess I won't drop Direct TV. My antenna is a Wingard high-band VHF + UHF and I have a Channel Master CM-7777 preamp (I think). I purchased my devices from SolidSignal,com, and when I looked on their website to refresh my memory, all these devices are listed as discontinued. What products to OTA enthusiasts use now?


----------



## pabuwal

With the terrible picture quality on Channels 4, 5, 7, we must have one of the worst in the nation. Channels 2 and 11 look great.


----------



## Brian in CT

MTVhike said:


> Thanks, KyL. After I did the rescan, there were NO PBS stations. WCBS and WNBC did appear (they hadn't been receivable by me before); WABC and WPIX were still there. So I guess I won't drop Direct TV. My antenna is a Wingard high-band VHF + UHF and I have a Channel Master CM-7777 preamp (I think). I purchased my devices from SolidSignal,com, and when I looked on their website to refresh my memory, all these devices are listed as discontinued. What products to OTA enthusiasts use now?


NO PBS stations! You said you can receive WABC (RF 7) and WPIX (RF 11), but not WNET (RF 13) or WLIW (RF 32)? Can you manually tune your TV into RF channels 13 & 32 and see what kind of signal you're receiving? Also, you should be receiving WEDW (PBS on RF 21) from Bridgeport like gangbusters from across Long Island Sound, even with your antenna pointed at NYC. I made a signal search on RabbitEars.info using a point 25 feet above ground located in downtown Stony Brook. The results show the signal of WLIW being comparable to those of WNYW (RF 27) and WWOR (RF 25). Are you unable to receive the latter two stations as well?

After five years of non-use, I hope you made sure your antenna is in good shape (no bent or missing elements) & pointed in the correct direction (not confusing true north with magnetic north), and all your connections are in good shape (no corrosion). If so, you should also check on your preamp to see if it's still in working condition. Earlier this year, Channel Master moved their operations to Bulgaria. They just came out with a new and improved (their words) CM-7777 preamp. I plan on getting one to replace my old failing preamp. Maybe you should go to their website and check it out.

Lastly, what model of Winegard antenna do you have? It would be interesting to see what kind of UHF elements it has. From your description, it seems like it does better pulling in VHF signals.


----------



## marlowja

LenL said:


> I have a question that is sort of off topic but I can't find the right forum to post it on. Anyone know where I can ask for help?
> 
> 
> 
> I was watching the Amazing Mrs. Maisal on Amazon prime on my Samsung 4K TV (Samsung 65" Class (64.5" Diag.) 4K UHD LED
> LCD TV 65NU8) and noticed I could watch it in either 4K or 1080p.
> 
> 
> So I experimented and tried both versions and I was surprised the 1080p version was sharper and brighter. Really good.
> 
> 
> 
> Watching the 4k version was a step backwards. Was not sharp and kind of dull.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what is going on. I have Optimum with 100+ internet service so I don't think my internet download is an issue.
> 
> 
> The TV does have a picture setting to turn on HDR+ which I did. Did not do anything to help.


Not to delve too off topic since this is not an OTA issue, but it's likely that while your TV can support an HDR source, the display cannot adequately output the required brightness or color gamut. I have the same issue with my 4K TV, HDR looks like trash so I just have my Apple TV set to 4K SDR, which I'm perfectly content with.


----------



## rothe

*Clogged Gutters!*

A few weeks ago, I raised a question about NJTV reception. I was trying to determine if a recent change to my signal was at the transmitter end or at my end. Well, I found the problem: a clogged gutter!

My house is about 37 miles due south of the 1WTC. My antenna is mounted eight feet above a second story roof. The length of the house runs roughly north-and-south - the roofline points about 15 degrees east of true north. To pick up all of the Manhattan transmitters, as well as NJTV's New Brunswick transmitter about 45 degrees to the west for me, I have my antenna aimed about 10 degrees west of true north.

Now imagine extending a line forward from the boom of my antenna. That line would run directly above a 30 ft length of gutter that happened to be clogged with leaves, and thus filled with water, effectively creating a 5" x 4" x 30' water-filled reflecting element, right below the line of site between my antenna and the transmitter. It so severely diminished the signal strength of all of the VHF channels that I could only pick up the Manhattan transmitters by aiming spot-on towards them. That sacrificed off-axis NJTV reception. In fact, even aiming directly towards New Brunswick was not enough to recover NJTV.

I finally discovered the problem when I came home a few days ago during a heavy downpour, and saw that the gutter was overflowing. I have an extension pole that can reach up there, with a tool on the end that can pick leaves out of the gutter from ground level. As soon as I fixed that clog, the water crashed downwards, through a downpipe and onto the first floor roof directly above where I was standing. And I got a bath!

But I got my NJTV reception back.


----------



## Useeme1234

So cool, so let me get it right, your tv cablel was in the gutter, you were getting a weak signal to your tv.

thats very weird. Lol


----------



## MGWiz

LenL said:


> I have a question that is sort of off topic but I can't find the right forum to post it on. Anyone know where I can ask for help?
> 
> 
> 
> I was watching the Amazing Mrs. Maisal on Amazon prime on my Samsung 4K TV (Samsung 65" Class (64.5" Diag.) 4K UHD LED
> LCD TV 65NU8) and noticed I could watch it in either 4K or 1080p.
> 
> 
> So I experimented and tried both versions and I was surprised the 1080p version was sharper and brighter. Really good.
> 
> 
> 
> Watching the 4k version was a step backwards. Was not sharp and kind of dull.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what is going on. I have Optimum with 100+ internet service so I don't think my internet download is an issue.
> 
> 
> The TV does have a picture setting to turn on HDR+ which I did. Did not do anything to help.


Actually its not terribly surprising. UHD requires 3-4 times the bitrate of 1080p to match the same encode quality. If the bitrate is lower the encoder will filter more to reduce artifacts, and the codec its self (AVC or HEVC) has a deblocking filter that will reduce resolution. Its actually pretty common to have a lower resolution picture look sharper.


----------



## rothe

MGWiz said:


> Actually its not terribly surprising. UHD requires 3-4 times the bitrate of 1080p to match the same encode quality. If the bitrate is lower the encoder will filter more to reduce artifacts, and the codec its self (AVC or HEVC) has a deblocking filter that will reduce resolution. Its actually pretty common to have a lower resolution picture look sharper.



I'd be trying a different HDMI cable - one that the manufacturer explicitly states that it can handle 4K UHD. I remember dealing with video problems when I went from 1080i to 1080p, and the problem was that the HDMI cable that I had been using reliably for years at 1080i was not up to the task of carrying 1080p. Same issue as stated above - higher resolution, greater bandwidth and higher frequencies to carry the signal.


----------



## LenL

rothe said:


> I'd be trying a different HDMI cable - one that the manufacturer explicitly states that it can handle 4K UHD. I remember dealing with video problems when I went from 1080i to 1080p, and the problem was that the HDMI cable that I had been using reliably for years at 1080i was not up to the task of carrying 1080p. Same issue as stated above - higher resolution, greater bandwidth and higher frequencies to carry the signal.



Rothe, HDMI cables are not involved. The Samsung Amazon app is stored in TV memory and getting the show directly from the internet fed by my router. This is sort of off topic however when OTA goes ATSC 3.0 and 4K content shows up issues like mine may be more relevant?


----------



## ansky212

Since the last few posts have absolutely nothing to do with New York OTA TV, it would probably be better suited to move that discussion to another forum such as: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdtv-technical/


----------



## Useeme1234

I noticed the last 2nites that nbc4 goes off air, around 2am, anyone can tell me for sure if, theyre
doing maintenance, or am I losing signal. around 2-3 morning. Thxs


----------



## KyL416

The 3 NYC area live bandscans in Fair Lawn, Pougkeepsie and Queens don't show any dropouts on WNJU/WNBC around that time.


----------



## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> The 3 NYC area live bandscans in Fair Lawn, Pougkeepsie and Queens don't show any dropouts on WNJU/WNBC around that time.


Txs, for update I get random droputs also, could be christmas lighting from neighbors.


----------



## KyL416

The new country music subchannel Circle is coming to WRNN 48.2 and WLNY 55.5:
https://inthecircle.com/watch/


----------



## SnellKrell

Just saw this filing with the FCC for WNJU/WNBC to *reduce* its power for Channel 35's
AUX antenna on 1WTC.

"The only modification requested is a reduction in the authorized effective radiated power (ERP) 
from 450 kW to 356.2 kW to reflect the final operating configuration with an additional combiner 
input power safety margin when all UHF stations at the One World Trade Center site are operating 
into the upper antenna (RFS PEP40E) at the same time."

Once again, Durst has used a lack of power to make stations change their FCC approved operations!

And to think that this facility was lauded as being state-of-the-art and ready for the future.

What a joke!!!!

I think back on how the Empire State Building, at one time, was able to accommodate so many analog
and digital channels, plus a slew of FM transmissions, and Durst keeps crying about a lack of power.

Welcome to the #1 media market!

UGH


----------



## trailblazer

SnellKrell said:


> Just saw this filing with the FCC for WNJU/WNBC to *reduce* its power for Channel 35's
> AUX antenna on 1WTC.
> 
> "The only modification requested is a reduction in the authorized effective radiated power (ERP)
> from 450 kW to 356.2 kW to reflect the final operating configuration with an additional combiner
> input power safety margin when all UHF stations at the One World Trade Center site are operating
> into the upper antenna (RFS PEP40E) at the same time."
> 
> Once again, Durst has used a lack of power to make stations change their FCC approved operations!
> 
> And to think that this facility was lauded as being state-of-the-art and ready for the future.
> 
> What a joke!!!!
> 
> I think back on how the Empire State Building, at one time, was able to accommodate so many analog
> and digital channels, plus a slew of FM transmissions, and Durst keeps crying about a lack of power.
> 
> Welcome to the #1 media market!
> 
> UGH


Hopefully they will never need the AUX setup in the future.


----------



## MeatChicken

SnellKrell said:


> Just saw this filing with the FCC for WNJU/WNBC to *reduce* its power for Channel 35's
> AUX antenna on 1WTC.
> 
> "The only modification requested is a reduction in the authorized effective radiated power (ERP)
> from 450 kW to 356.2 kW to reflect the final operating configuration with an additional combiner
> input power safety margin when all UHF stations at the One World Trade Center site are operating
> into the upper antenna (RFS PEP40E) at the same time."
> 
> *Once again, Durst has used a lack of power to make stations change their FCC approved operations*!
> 
> And to think that this facility was lauded as being state-of-the-art and ready for the future.
> 
> What a joke!!!!
> 
> I think back on how the Empire State Building, at one time, was able to accommodate so many analog
> and digital channels, plus a slew of FM transmissions, and Durst keeps crying about a lack of power.
> 
> Welcome to the #1 media market!
> 
> UGH


 Does Durst "own" the Transmitter(s) too, or just the antennas and/or combiners? I thought, at least back in the Empire/analog days, each station had their "own" transmitter, with the power they determined/required, the building owner didn't determine the transmitter's output power ......
If so, then perhaps it's just Durst's "combiners" can't handle the power, it's not a lack of power from Durst itself....


----------



## SnellKrell

MeatChicken said:


> Does Durst "own" the Transmitter(s) too, or just the antennas and/or combiners? I thought, at least back in the Empire/analog days, each station had their "own" transmitter, with the power they determined/required, the building owner didn't determine the transmitter's output power ......
> If so, then perhaps it's just Durst's "combiners" can't handle the power, it's not a lack of power from Durst itself....


My understanding is that the stations own the transmitters, and pay rent for use of
the Combiners and the master antennas.

Durst has made WNYW to move from PEP40 to PEP96 because of claimed power problems.

Durst denied WLIW its authorized and contracted use of PEP40 and made the station use 
PEP96 also because of claimed power problems.

If the problem is with the Combiners not being able to accommodate stations' power needs,
then Durst installed inadequate Combiners.

Durst in the landlord collecting huge rents and they continue to shaft the tenants!


----------



## KyL416

WEDW just filed their tolling request to extend their CP. In it they provide more detail, specifically that you can blame WJLP's owners for filing yet another bogus objection causing the delay in getting the Empire State Building DTS facility on the air.
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076ff36f1eed17016f1f14e51000ba


> While Licensee’s request for an extension of the CP was pending, PMCM filed an Application for Review of the Letter Order on July 15, 2019. Although the pleading cycle on the Application for Review closed on August 13, 2019, the Commission has not yet issued a decision. Due to the resulting uncertainty, Licensee has been unable to make the investment necessary to prepare for and construct the DTS authorized in the CP.


----------



## NYC

The TV Guide app (very nice app with listings for most of the subchannels, though there are a few errors they have not corrected) has listings for WPIX 11.6 showing what appear to be infomercials. No such channel appears on my sets. Also, no clue as to why there is no mention of 11.5, nor do I have any idea what is happening at PIX. It would be nice to have This TV again, but I imagine that isn't in the works. Any news as to what is happening?


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WEDW just filed their tolling request to extend their CP. In it they provide more detail, specifically that you can blame WJLP's owners for filing yet another bogus objection causing the delay in getting the Empire State Building DTS facility on the air.
> https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076ff36f1eed17016f1f14e51000ba


The longer this drags on the less likely that this DTS will ever come on the air. If the WJLP owners can just keep issuing appeals to fight this then ultimately that is the equivalent of WEDW having no approval at all. This is how the legal system works in our country. You just drag things out until the other party gives up. I assume at some point WEDW is going to lose whatever budget they had for this project.


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> The TV Guide app (very nice app with listings for most of the subchannels, though there are a few errors they have not corrected) has listings for WPIX 11.6 showing what appear to be infomercials. No such channel appears on my sets. Also, no clue as to why there is no mention of 11.5, nor do I have any idea what is happening at PIX. It would be nice to have This TV again, but I imagine that isn't in the works. Any news as to what is happening?


This is probably an error. WPIX 11.6 also showed up in my Tivo channel listing a few months ago, but there is no such channel on the air to tune to.


----------



## Useeme1234

Bein sports is now on 39.1 formerly azteca tv


----------



## KyL416

That explains why DirecTV replaced 39 WNYN with 42 WKOB about 2 weeks ago.

As for TiVO, their data has a ton of mistakes, especially with the LP channels that were repacked, I sent them a massive update for NYC, so hopefully it will be fixed soon.

The 11.6 is really weird. It's listed as HSN with RF 28, a RF number WPIX has never broadcasted on.


----------



## Useeme1234

You still have directv? I cut the cord in 2016 with them saving a bunch of $$$ :/


----------



## ansky212

WRNN 48-2 is now airing Circle TV (replaces Stadium). Circle is a country music themed network.


----------



## foxycat

I live in Westchester County.I still have an analog TV with a Digital Stream DTX9950 converter and remote, and an antenna I rigged up myself. 

Recently I turned on the CC because I watch many British shows, and I just leave it on all the time. I set the CC to the all-upper-case font in Auto Mode. A few weeks ago, I lost the CC, and tried to restore them with my remote. None of the 8 or 10 fonts are now upper case, so I chose Default. Some shows have upper-case captions and some are in sentence case, which I have trouble reading. I don't know if this problem is in the converter or the TV or if CC does that everywhere..

Digital Stream company has no online presence, and I could find only the manual I already have.


----------



## NYC

WRNN launched 48.4 -- looks like another Spanish language religious channel. The description currently states "Palabra de Obispo Amiga macedo -- unknown input timing" showing a blank screen and no audio. Also noticed that Circle has launched on 48.2 and that 48.3 is called "Canal de la Fe" however both channels still display as Stadium and Arirang.


----------



## marlowja

https://www.audioholics.com/hdtv-formats/atsc-3.0-next-gen-tv-hits-us-markets-2020-1


It looks like the NY market is slated for ATSC 3.0 transmissions this year. I'm curious as to who would be the first to go live with it, since it seems to me that Sinclair is the main broadcast group pushing for adoption, and they (thankfully) do not have a presence in the DMA. I'm thinking WNET might be a good candidate - especially with their recent WMBQ / WNDT sharing and the move of WLIW to 1WTC. I'm wondering if WNET or WLIW could be an ATSC 1 lighthouse, while 3.0 services are carried on the other. Pure speculation, of course.


----------



## MeatChicken

marlowja said:


> https://www.audioholics.com/hdtv-formats/atsc-3.0-next-gen-tv-hits-us-markets-2020-1
> 
> 
> It looks like the NY market is slated for ATSC 3.0 transmissions this year. I'm curious as to who would be the first to go live with it, since it seems to me that Sinclair is the main broadcast group pushing for adoption, and they (thankfully) do not have a presence in the DMA. I'm thinking WNET might be a good candidate - especially with their recent WMBQ / WNDT sharing and the move of WLIW to 1WTC. I'm wondering if WNET or WLIW could be an ATSC 1 lighthouse, while 3.0 services are carried on the other. Pure speculation, of course.


 I like the line in the article about 3.0: 
_"..with new tech-standards, come new tech-snake oil, and ATSC 3.0 is no exception. Expect to see antennas being advertised as ATSC 3, 4K or Next-Gen TV, specially optimized with fairy dust to receive the new signals..."_


----------



## Useeme1234

I don't particularly like the upgrade, most of us ota viewers just want stability, I don't want to pay for a box to watch tv, is fine as it is. more of the same programming I think i will pass.


----------



## SnellKrell

MeatChicken said:


> I like the line in the article about 3.0:
> _"..with new tech-standards, come new tech-snake oil, and ATSC 3.0 is no exception. Expect to see antennas being advertised as ATSC 3, 4K or Next-Gen TV, specially optimized with fairy dust to receive the new signals..."_


This snake oil marketing has been going on for years!

Respected manufacturers and sellers of antennas have been touting that their
antenna is ready for Digital, can receive High Definition, will work with 4K, etc.

And, unfortunately, the unknowing public believes this hyperbole.

What's worse are the unscrupulous people out there who frighten people into
buying an antenna with the threat their current antenna will no longer be able
to provide reception.

UGH!


----------



## marlowja

Useeme1234 said:


> I don't particularly like the upgrade, most of us ota viewers just want stability, I don't want to pay for a box to watch tv, is fine as it is. more of the same programming I think i will pass.


Apparently ATSC 3 is moving to a form of modulation that has much less multipath interference, so I think reception will improve for many in urban settings.

The programming might be the same, but I for one am looking forward to picture quality enhancements. For example, WNBC and WNJU have crammed two 1080i signals, and 2 480i subchannels into one signal, meaning that there are awful compression artifacts that make NBC look like sub-720p to me at points. Before channel sharing and subchannels arrangements became prevalent, ATSC 1.0 picture quality was much better - you can easily tell how much crisper WCBS is, to see what PQ used to be like.

It seems like ATSC 3.0 can go two ways for broadcasters - 4K main networks with a 720p subchannel or two, or, more likely, some 1080p main networks that go 4K for sports, Olympics etc while the existing number of subchannels continue in 720p or 1080p. There's also a possibility of encryption with ATSC 3.0 subchannels - I wonder if we could see a day where WABC would offer ESPN a la carte.


----------



## SnellKrell

marlowja said:


> Apparently ATSC 3 is moving to a form of modulation that has much less multipath interference, so I think reception will improve for many in urban settings.
> 
> The programming might be the same, but I for one am looking forward to picture quality enhancements. For example, WNBC and WNJU have crammed two 1080i signals, and 2 480i subchannels into one signal, meaning that there are awful compression artifacts that make NBC look like sub-720p to me at points. Before channel sharing and subchannels arrangements became prevalent, ATSC 1.0 picture quality was much better - you can easily tell how much crisper WCBS is, to see what PQ used to be like.
> 
> It seems like ATSC 3.0 can go two ways for broadcasters - 4K main networks with a 720p subchannel or two, or, more likely, some 1080p main networks that go 4K for sports, Olympics etc while the existing number of subchannels continue in 720p or 1080p. There's also a possibility of encryption with ATSC 3.0 subchannels - I wonder if we could see a day where WABC would offer ESPN a la carte.


Did you mean 1080i?

Wish we had 1080p OTA!


----------



## ansky212

marlowja said:


> There's also a possibility of encryption with ATSC 3.0 subchannels - I wonder if we could see a day where WABC would offer ESPN a la carte.


That's an interesting concept. Let's hope free TV doesn't go away entirely. If they start charging for premium content what's to stop them from charging for all content.


----------



## marlowja

ansky212 said:


> That's an interesting concept. Let's hope free TV doesn't go away entirely. If they start charging for premium content what's to stop them from charging for all content.


Unless I'm mistaken, FCC regulations mandate that the "main" channel e.g. 4.1 must be free and unencrypted, but subchannels are fair game. I don't expect this to change - for one, ad revenue would decrease if there are less viewers.

This pay model has been attempted on a limited basis with ATSC 1.0 - I believe there had been some encrypted cable channels carried on Ion affiliates. If I could pay NBC $3 a month for OTA access to MSNBC instead of subscribing to AT&T TV for $60 a month for the same access, I think that'd be a fair tradeoff. 




SnellKrell said:


> Did you mean 1080i?
> 
> Wish we had 1080p OTA!


For 3.0, I expect both 1080i and 720p networks to transition to at least 1080p - from what I've read with the better codecs in 3.0, a 1080p station will only take 4MBPS of the roughly 25MBPS bandwidth, compared to the 10/11MBPS of 1080i on the 19MBPS ATSC 1.0 signal.

Sorry to go so off topic, I'm just curious as to the implications for ATSC 3.0 in a local context.


----------



## KyL416

Encryption is already an option with ATSC 1.0, many Ion stations including WPXN had encrypted MPEG4 streams of HBO, Starz, Showtime and others on their signal as part of the now defunct AirBox TV service. Earlier on there was another subscription service operating on a bunch of stations in Colorado, but they folded in the 00s.


----------



## Brian in CT

marlowja said:


> Apparently ATSC 3 is moving to a form of modulation that has much less multipath interference, so I think reception will improve for many in urban settings.


Also, this means the return of the truly portable television. Some users on one of these OTA threads mocked me when I mentioned this in a post last summer, but there are already a few makers of little TVs (like Supersonic) on the market. When ATSC 3.0 tuning is added to these items, I'll be the first in line to buy one. It will be something to play with during long rides in a car that won't cost me a dime. Just like old times.


----------



## ansky212

Brian in CT said:


> Also, this means the return of the truly portable television. Some users on one of these OTA threads mocked me when I mentioned this in a post last summer, but there are already a few makers of little TVs (like Supersonic) on the market. When ATSC 3.0 tuning is added to these items, I'll be the first in line to buy one. It will be something to play with during long rides in a car that won't cost me a dime. Just like old times.


I would consider buying one too, although I would be interested in seeing how well these little TVs work in a moving vehicle. Digital signals need to be much more stable than what we had in the analog days. I used to have a portable digital "HD" radio in my car and it was pretty much useless because the signal fluctuations caused it to drop out while I was driving.


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> I would consider buying one too, although I would be interested in seeing how well these little TVs work in a moving vehicle. Digital signals need to be much more stable than what we had in the analog days. I used to have a portable digital "HD" radio in my car and it was pretty much useless because the signal fluctuations caused it to drop out while I was driving.


Mobile television will probably never be like it was in NTSC times, but from what I've read about ATSC 3.0, it could still be satisfactory. IIRC, in 2018 the NAB drove a bus full of TV executives around Baltimore to test this out. The bus had numerous televisions tuned to an experimental ATSC 3.0 station transmitting from just outside the city. The consensus from the passengers was that they were "pleased with the results." Could they be overhyping this or outright lying? Maybe. But I'm willing to spend some money on an ATSC 3.0 portable (when they start to manufacture them) to find out for myself.

BTW, if I was off base with some of the facts from my story, let me know. I should have tried to find the exact article I read it from before posting. Oh well, compulsive me.


----------



## dstoffa

SnellKrell said:


> This snake oil marketing has been going on for years!
> 
> Respected manufacturers and sellers of antennas have been touting that their
> antenna is ready for Digital, can receive High Definition, will work with 4K, etc.
> 
> And, unfortunately, the unknowing public believes this hyperbole.
> 
> What's worse are the unscrupulous people out there who frighten people into
> buying an antenna with the threat their current antenna will no longer be able
> to provide reception.
> 
> UGH!



The only "hype" I would believe would be a claim by a reputable antenna maker that their "new" antenna has been redesigned for the re-packed UHF TV Band.


Most UHF antennas on the market have been designed for an upper limit of RF69. I doubt many were re-tuned for an upper frequency of RF51, and certainly none have been made / designed for an upper limit of RF36.


----------



## MeatChicken

dstoffa said:


> The only "hype" I would believe would be a claim by a reputable antenna maker that their "new" antenna has been redesigned for the re-packed UHF TV Band.
> 
> 
> *Most UHF antennas on the market have been designed for an upper limit of RF69. I doubt many were re-tuned for an upper frequency of RF51*, and certainly none have been made / designed for an upper limit of RF36.


 I'd bet many sold are still tuned for Upper limit of RF83!


----------



## Useeme1234

You can make a 4 bay antenna cut for new uhf band, 10" on each side, gets you vhf channels to boot.


----------



## NYC

On or around February 17, WABC will drop LiveWell and launch Localish on 7.2


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> On or around February 17, WABC will drop LiveWell and launch Localish on 7.2


Sounds similar to the "LX" network that NBC is launching.


----------



## jrampoldi

MHz Worldview (14.1 & 46.1) will cease broadcasting March 1, 2020

mhznetworks.com


----------



## LenL

jrampoldi said:


> MHz Worldview (14.1 & 46.1) will cease broadcasting March 1, 2020
> 
> mhznetworks.com



Say it ain't so! This is one of the best OTA stations with some really fantastic foreign detective shows! One of my most watched channels along with PBS!


Hopefully someone else will pick them up.


----------



## mrradiohead55

LenL said:


> Say it ain't so! This is one of the best OTA stations with some really fantastic foreign detective shows! One of my most watched channels along with PBS!
> 
> 
> Hopefully someone else will pick them up.



No one will pick them up because they are ending their OTA service...
https://mhznetworks.com/mhz-worldview-transitions-to-new-mhz-now-digital-streaming/

My guess is they are ending their C-band OTA service to the 26 public television stations that were their affiliates, which most likely is due to $$$ of having a C-band feed.

All is not lost, as they explain they will still be available, but only over the internet and you will now have to pay $ to watch them. A seven day trial and then pay up.


Jim - Springfield, Missouri


----------



## KyL416

They ended their C-Band service a few years ago, since then they've been delivered to affiliates and sat providers via IP.


----------



## mrradiohead55

KyL416 said:


> They ended their C-Band service a few years ago, since then they've been delivered to affiliates and sat providers via IP.



Thanks for the info KyL416. I wondered if they were doing IP after I posted that. I have been a C band/Ku band user for 15 years and am noticing a lot of the longtime C-band services leaving that broadcast medium for IP/fiber. Those that still do satellite TV as a hobby are seeing it shrink away.


Jim


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WEDW just filed their tolling request to extend their CP. In it they provide more detail, specifically that you can blame WJLP's owners for filing yet another bogus objection causing the delay in getting the Empire State Building DTS facility on the air.
> https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076ff36f1eed17016f1f14e51000ba


Has there been any recent update on the status of WEDW?


----------



## KyL416

Nothing new has been filed outside of a recently granted extension of their current RF 21 STA until July.


----------



## LenL

MHZnetworks left the air before only to return when their business plan did not work out. They may or may not stay off the air this time too. They may just be playing a game to see if they can find a more lucrative offer than what PBS was giving them....... which was probable peanuts.


It is a niche product they are selling.


----------



## Joe Iannucci

I have a question that goes back to analog. How did they have WNBC on channel 4 and WNYW on channel 5 without interference?


----------



## KyL416

There's a 4 MHz gap between RF 4 and RF 5:
RF 4: 66-72
RF 5: 76-82


----------



## Joe Iannucci

KyL416 said:


> There's a 4 MHz gap between RF 4 and RF 5:
> RF 4: 66-72
> RF 5: 76-82


I see. So, even on more sensitive tuners it wasn't an issue?


----------



## MeatChicken

Joe Iannucci said:


> I see. So, even on more sensitive tuners it wasn't an issue?


 Yes, Channel numbers "essentially" are not the relevant information, it's the actual frequencies that matter ....
For example, there's the 4Mhz gap mentioned above, between 4 and 5 ...
But, between 5 & 6, there's essentially No Gap ( 76-82, and 82-88) That's why historically they wouldn't allow chs 5 & 6 in the same market, but 4 & 5 were fine ....
There's a Whopping 86 MHz gap between Chs 6 and 7 .....


----------



## Brian in CT

To be precise, full power TV stations on adjacent channels (except 4/5, 6/7, and 13/14) had to be at least 35 miles away from each other in the analog era. Full power co-channels had to be at least 160 miles apart. Some VHF stations (back before UHF became profitable in the early 1980's) were "short spaced" to as little as 140 miles, but TV station owners needed to jump through hoops with the FCC to get those approved. In contrast, the FCC is allowing full power co-channels in ATSC to be packed in as little as 90 miles apart.


----------



## mets18

Interesting stuff. I wonder why back in the day NYC was allocated channel 5 instead of channel 6. It seems the latter would have offered more space on both sides.


----------



## Useeme1234

Philly has channel 6. Wpvi abc affiliate, what im sutprised, how come analog signal travel much further than digital.


----------



## KEVINL71

There was also VHF channel 6 in Schenectady, NY (WRGB-TV) and New Bedford, MA (WLNE-TV).


----------



## mets18

Useeme1234 said:


> Philly has channel 6. Wpvi abc affiliate, what im sutprised, how come analog signal travel much further than digital.


Yes, but channel 5 first signed on in 1945, 2 years before channel 6 in Philadelphia, 9 years before WRGB moved to channel 6, and 18 years before WLNE signed on.


----------



## Joe Iannucci

I never really though about the frequencies. I thought maybe there was some kind of "filter" or something at the transmitter site to prevent interference. I literally had no idea on that one. I live in the Philadelphia market south of Trenton, NJ. As far as NYC tv, the only channel I actually picked up from there is WABC post digital transition. I have more luck with WLNY and WLIW during tropo months. During the analog days, there was a time I picked up most NYC stations as well NBC 30 in up in CT.


----------



## KEVINL71

They may have moved, but some time back, WVIT-TV (NBC) channel 30 of New Britain was on channel 35. Then and now, their site is Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT. CW 20, PBS 24, ION 26 and FOX 61 all transmit from there, too. (Channel 20 is now on channel 33, where CBS 3 of Hartford had been.)


----------



## speedlaw

MeatChicken said:


> Yes, Channel numbers "essentially" are not the relevant information, it's the actual frequencies that matter ....
> For example, there's the 4Mhz gap mentioned above, between 4 and 5 ...
> But, between 5 & 6, there's essentially No Gap ( 76-82, and 82-88) That's why historically they wouldn't allow chs 5 & 6 in the same market, but 4 & 5 were fine ....
> There's a Whopping 86 MHz gap between Chs 6 and 7 .....


AKA the FM broadcast band, which is why you could get the channel 6 audio carrier back in the day with your FM radio tuned to 87.9


----------



## KyL416

speedlaw said:


> AKA the FM broadcast band, which is why you could get the channel 6 audio carrier back in the day with your FM radio tuned to 87.9


87.7 and in the 5 boroughs of NYC you still can do so because of WNYZ-LP which is operating as a franken-FM station:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...pplicationId=64530a5fca614f79bd84cf6212b6c0ea


----------



## NYC

I used to enjoy the silent movies that were shown on channel 6 WNYZ-LP, with Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton, but I am no longer able to tune in that station. I recall that the FCC did not approve as the video and audio were totally unrelated. What video are they airing now? How are they able to stay on the air? Won't they be forced to switch to digital only at some point?


----------



## logger-a

NYC said:


> I used to enjoy the silent movies that were shown on channel 6 WNYZ-LP, with Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton, but I am no longer able to tune in that station. I recall that the FCC did not approve as the video and audio were totally unrelated. What video are they airing now? How are they able to stay on the air? Won't they be forced to switch to digital only at some point?


Thanks for the interesting post.


According to the Wikipedia article on the station: "On June 29, 2011, the FCC canceled the license of WNYZ-LP and deleted its call sign". So, no more video signal. It looks as if the station had planned to switch to digital on physical channel 49, but the construction permit from the FCC expired. It also look as if the station operated as an analog FM audio/digital video hybrid for just over one year, presumably on physical channel 6, with 1.1 as the video virtual channel number.


----------



## KyL416

That license cancellation was a clerical mistake on the FCC's part, which is why that section of the article is titled "Accidental license cancelation". It was quickly reversed and they have since been granted another digital flash cut construction permit which doesn't expire until 2023.

The FCC is still deciding on the final fate of the Franken-FM stations after 2021 and is considering letting them continue to broadcast an analog audio signal as an ancillary service.


----------



## upislouder

*WABC OTA 7-1 compression quality*

Hello, new here, if there's a better forum for this please let me know:

Just wondering if anyone else with WABC OTA ch 7-1 has noticed how poor their picture quality is compared to other OTA networks. It's practically internet video. They are compressing significantly more than necessary.

The website below suggests in the technical details for WABC that their bitrate is quite low, as low as 5 Mbps (less than DVD and Netflix), vs other networks using >10 Mbps, which would explain it. I'm not sure how they determined that but would be curious to know.

rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=1

Just wondering who / what dept I would contact at WABC or ABC to do something about this. It's lame watching big events at this quality and is a perplexing choice for a flagship network in their own city. I'm looking forward to the Academy Awards but watching with "classic RealPlayer quality" is going to bug me. : \


----------



## marlowja

upislouder said:


> Hello, new here, if there's a better forum for this please let me know:
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else with WABC OTA ch 7-1 has noticed how poor their picture quality is compared to other OTA networks. It's practically internet video. They are compressing significantly more than necessary.
> 
> The website below suggests in the technical details for WABC that their bitrate is quite low, as low as 5 Mbps (less than DVD and Netflix), vs other networks using >10 Mbps, which would explain it. I'm not sure how they determined that but would be curious to know.
> 
> rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=1
> 
> Just wondering who / what dept I would contact at WABC or ABC to do something about this. It's lame watching big events at this quality and is a perplexing choice for a flagship network in their own city. I'm looking forward to the Academy Awards but watching with "classic RealPlayer quality" is going to bug me. : \


Part of the issue is that ABC uses 720p - I know this is a circular debate but for non-sports content, I think 1080i has a much better quality for news and drama content. But there's definitely something else going on - they must be using an ancient encoder, because there is a ton of visible MPEG compression to the point where it almost looks like I'm watching a moving JPEG.


----------



## logger-a

marlowja said:


> Part of the issue is that ABC uses 720p - I know this is a circular debate but for non-sports content, I think 1080i has a much better quality for news and drama content. But there's definitely something else going on - they must be using an ancient encoder, because there is a ton of visible MPEG compression to the point where it almost looks like I'm watching a moving JPEG.


720p could be most of the issue. It has been years since I was able to view WABC. At that time, the primary content on virtual channel 7.1 was 720p video at data rate of 10 Mbps. Other content was: virtual channel 7.2 was 720p video at a data rate of 5 Mbps and virtual channel 7.3 was 480i video at a data rate of 3 Mbps. On a TV with a screen with a native resolution of 720 the picture quality of channel 7.1 was fine. The picture on channel 7.2 had noticeable digital artifacts on scene changes.

The technical data for WABC at rabbitears.info lists the video data rate of virtual channel 7.1 of 4.9 to 14.3 Mbps. The low end of that range should be sufficient for many video frames, just as the 5 Mbps was sufficient for many of the frames of channel 7.2 years ago.


----------



## KyL416

Yeah, WABC and the other ABC O&O's use stat muxing. The output on RabbitEars is just what happened to be the bitrates at the time the contributor clicked export.

I'm watching WPVI right now with my HDHomerun signal meter and VLC, when there was a still image on the screen during a news report on 6.1 it dipped down to around 3 Mbps, but once the motion resumed it jumped up to 13 Mbps, during "standard" motion it hovers around 8-10 Mbps. The Live Well (soon to be Localish) channel on .2 has similar bitrates depending on the content. Laff on .3 mostly hovers around 2-3 Mbps with the occasional spike to 5.


----------



## speedlaw

marlowja said:


> Part of the issue is that ABC uses 720p - I know this is a circular debate but for non-sports content, I think 1080i has a much better quality for news and drama content. But there's definitely something else going on - they must be using an ancient encoder, because there is a ton of visible MPEG compression to the point where it almost looks like I'm watching a moving JPEG.


I miss the single stream ATSC signals. When HDTV was still experimental, Channel 50.1, NJN, ran a reel of random shots of the Jersey Shore Boardwalk-the colors were vibrant and perfect. A Hallmark movie on CBS convinced the wife of the logic of spending so much $ on a TV set. It was great till some lowlife marketing scum on the lam from AOR radio figured out "Hey, we could have four channels and run three channels of shopping !!!"


----------



## Brian in CT

speedlaw said:


> I miss the single stream ATSC signals. When HDTV was still experimental, Channel 50.1, NJN, ran a reel of random shots of the Jersey Shore Boardwalk-the colors were vibrant and perfect. A Hallmark movie on CBS convinced the wife of the logic of spending so much $ on a TV set. It was great till some lowlife marketing scum on the lam from AOR radio figured out "Hey, we could have four channels and run three channels of shopping !!!"


If you must, also blame the last few chairmen of the FCC for that. For example, when CBS was running just one 1080i sub-channel (with no other subs) on most of their owned & operated stations, the FCC chairman at the time (Julius Genachowski) likened it to "empty boxcars" of information. Obviously, that was part of the FCC's thinking that led to the reverse auction and subsequent repack. Broadcasters are probably thinking that if they don't use it they'll lose it. Of course, they also like the extra revenue streams.


----------



## Brian in CT

Today, an "inside source" at WCBS told me that their DRT on RF 22 in Long Island might not be turned on for a while. The biggest problem for them is finding a tower crew in the near future for some necessary work on the transmitter.


----------



## DennisHPC

*Current Status of WJLP*

Is WJLP broadcasting from the One WTC or is it still at 4 Times Square? What is the current power output on RF Channel 3?


----------



## KyL416

They're still operating on their 26.5 kW STA from 4 Times Square
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916ec6ebf9016ec89f65521681&site=1&map=Y


----------



## trailblazer

KyL416 said:


> They're still operating on their 26.5 kW STA from 4 Times Square
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916ec6ebf9016ec89f65521681&site=1&map=Y


I am in Jackson NJ and cannot receive this station even though rabbit ears say's that I should. All other stations out of NY I can get except MeTV. I am using a Winegard 8200 antenna which covers LoO and Hi VHF and UHF frequencies. Hopefully whenever it moves to the WTC I will be able to get the signal.


----------



## KyL416

Can you post a link to a RabbitEars search for your location? Doing a search for Jackson NJ in general shows the STA as "tropo", while their final 1WTC signal, which is about 400 feet higher, puts the area in "1 Edge", but you likely have different results at your specific location because of the varying terrain.

You mentioned in some other posts you get Philly stations too. How's your reception of WDPN/2, WACP/4 and WPVI/6? At least according to the search for Jackson in general, WACP should be coming in stronger than WJLP, WDPN and WPVI, although it's more south west of you compared to the Philly stations.

Also are you using seperate antennas that you combined into one cable, something you keep on seperate cables, or is it one antenna that you rotate depending on what city you want to watch?


----------



## trailblazer

KyL416 said:


> Can you post a link to a RabbitEars search for your location? Doing a search for Jackson NJ in general shows the STA as "tropo", while their final 1WTC signal, which is about 400 feet higher, puts the area in "1 Edge", but you likely have different results at your specific location because of the varying terrain.
> 
> You mentioned in some other posts you get Philly stations too. How's your reception of WDPN/2, WACP/4 and WPVI/6? At least according to the search for Jackson in general, WACP should be coming in stronger than WJLP, WDPN and WPVI, although it's more south west of you compared to the Philly stations.
> 
> Also are you using seperate antennas that you combined into one cable, something you keep on seperate cables, or is it one antenna that you rotate depending on what city you want to watch?



I am using a rotor to get NY or Philly stations. Reception on WDPN (2), WACP (4) never have a problem receiving them. On the other hand, WPVI (6) is marginal with a signal strength of 50 to 60 % while the other 2 run at 70 to 80%. WPVI mostly works but at times the picture would pixelate like crazy than stop. Like some kind of multi path interference occurring.


----------



## mrradiohead55

trailblazer said:


> I am using a rotor to get NY or Philly stations. Reception on WDPN (2), WACP (4) never have a problem receiving them. On the other hand, WPVI (6) is marginal with a signal strength of 50 to 60 % while the other 2 run at 70 to 80%. WPVI mostly works but at times the picture would pixelate like crazy than stop. Like some kind of multi path interference occurring.



RF 6 covers 82-88 MHz (6 MHz bandwidth). My first guess would be a pirate FM station is operating at 87.5 MHz and that's causing interference in your neighborhood to the WPVI signal. Pirate FM's are notorious anywhere along the east coast, but especially near Philly & NYC. Some put out a pretty good signal. My suggestion would be the next time you notice WPVI is *struggling* to decode, check on an FM radio that can tune down to 87.5 or 87.7. You might find something there. IF you can find something that could be potentially causing problems with the WPVI signal, you have two options: file a report with the FCC or report it to WPVI management or engineering and let them file the report.


----------



## Brian in CT

trailblazer said:


> I am using a rotor to get NY or Philly stations. Reception on WDPN (2), WACP (4) never have a problem receiving them. On the other hand, WPVI (6) is marginal with a signal strength of 50 to 60 % while the other 2 run at 70 to 80%. WPVI mostly works but at times the picture would pixelate like crazy than stop. Like some kind of multi path interference occurring.


VHF-Lo ATSC 1.0 TV signals can be negatively affected by any gizmo that you can plug in and/or turn on. That said, I don't see how WDPN stays on while WPVI drops out if this is the case in your situation. They're transmitting from the same place with WPVI using more power. There are some FM stations on 88.1 located in New Jersey. I'd check to see if any are transmitting near you. Otherwise, I'm stumped.


----------



## trailblazer

mrradiohead55 said:


> RF 6 covers 82-88 MHz (6 MHz bandwidth). My first guess would be a pirate FM station is operating at 87.5 MHz and that's causing interference in your neighborhood to the WPVI signal. Pirate FM's are notorious anywhere along the east coast, but especially near Philly & NYC. Some put out a pretty good signal. My suggestion would be the next time you notice WPVI is *struggling* to decode, check on an FM radio that can tune down to 87.5 or 87.7. You might find something there. IF you can find something that could be potentially causing problems with the WPVI signal, you have two options: file a report with the FCC or report it to WPVI management or engineering and let them file the report.



Thanks for the info. I also ordered an FM Trap filter to see if that helps any. I am not aware of any stations below 88.9 but I'll check when I get a chance.


----------



## trailblazer

Brian in CT said:


> VHF-Lo ATSC 1.0 TV signals can be negatively affected by any gizmo that you can plug in and/or turn on. That said, I don't see how WDPN stays on while WPVI drops out if this is the case in your situation. They're transmitting from the same place with WPVI using more power. There are some FM stations on 88.1 located in New Jersey. I'd check to see if any are transmitting near you. Otherwise, I'm stumped.



Oddly I have no issues with WDPN (2) or WACP (4), just WPVI. Also, WHYY (12) is fine too. The biggest issue with WPVI (6) is that it has the lowest signal strength out of all the VHF channels even though it transmits at the highest power. I would think that that would be the signal with the highest signal strength, but unfortunately in my case it is not. I do find that weird that this happens.


----------



## KyL416

Brian in CT said:


> There are some FM stations on 88.1 located in New Jersey. I'd check to see if any are transmitting near you. Otherwise, I'm stumped.





trailblazer said:


> I am not aware of any stations below 88.9 but I'll check when I get a chance.


Jackson, NJ is only 3.5 miles away from WNJS-FM's transmitter on 88.1


----------



## trailblazer

KyL416 said:


> Jackson, NJ is only 3.5 miles away from WNJS-FM's transmitter on 88.1



Are you referring to WNJT on 88.1 out of Trenton NJ. According to Radio Locator that station is 23.2 miles from my location in Jackson. Like I mentioned in an earlier thread, I am waiting for an FM Block Filter to see if that helps with my situation.


----------



## mrradiohead55

trailblazer said:


> Are you referring to WNJT on 88.1 out of Trenton NJ. According to Radio Locator that station is 23.2 miles from my location in Jackson. Like I mentioned in an earlier thread, I am waiting for an FM Block Filter to see if that helps with my situation.



Trailblazer, my mention about a possible pirate radio station was intended to reference specifically the channel 6 spectrum - 82-88 MHz. Even if you find a nearby FM on 88.1 or above, those are suppose to be licensed FM's and the FCC is suppose to be aware of any interaction to a local DTV's signal on RF 6. In other words, they do *interference* studies before FM licenses are issued. The same is done with TV licenses.


IF you have a pirate FM (unlicensed and unauthorized) operating on 87.5 or 87.7 MHz, the FM trap won't effect that station's signal. FM traps are typically designed to manage overload from FM radio stations (88-108) that might be causing 2nd and 3rd harmonics in the high VHF band (7-13). An FM trap could also potentially hurt the signal from WPVI, since RF 6 is so close to the FM band. So I mention checking to see if an illegal FM station is operating in the audio portion of RF 6 (87.5 or 87.7) because if WILL cause radio frequency interference (RFI). The FCC and the effected station would want to know about it. And if such a situation actually exists, its not fair to you as a WPVI viewer to have to put up with such a situation. Not saying that is what you are experiencing, but it sounds logical to explore the possibility, based on your description.


----------



## trailblazer

mrradiohead55 said:


> Trailblazer, my mention about a possible pirate radio station was intended to reference specifically the channel 6 spectrum - 82-88 MHz. Even if you find a nearby FM on 88.1 or above, those are suppose to be licensed FM's and the FCC is suppose to be aware of any interaction to a local DTV's signal on RF 6. In other words, they do *interference* studies before FM licenses are issued. The same is done with TV licenses.
> 
> 
> IF you have a pirate FM (unlicensed and unauthorized) operating on 87.5 or 87.7 MHz, the FM trap won't effect that station's signal. FM traps are typically designed to manage overload from FM radio stations (88-108) that might be causing 2nd and 3rd harmonics in the high VHF band (7-13). An FM trap could also potentially hurt the signal from WPVI, since RF 6 is so close to the FM band. So I mention checking to see if an illegal FM station is operating in the audio portion of RF 6 (87.5 or 87.7) because if WILL cause radio frequency interference (RFI). The FCC and the effected station would want to know about it. And if such a situation actually exists, its not fair to you as a WPVI viewer to have to put up with such a situation. Not saying that is what you are experiencing, but it sounds logical to explore the possibility, based on your description.



Thanks for the detailed explanation. The problem with WPVI's signal problem usually occurs during the afternoon or early evening. Around prime time hours I usually don;t have an issue. I'll tune in to the 87.5 through 87.7 to see if I can find a FM station operating when WPVI's signal starts breaking up.



Again, thanks for the details.


----------



## Brian in CT

mrradiohead55 said:


> Trailblazer, my mention about a possible pirate radio station was intended to reference specifically the channel 6 spectrum - 82-88 MHz. Even if you find a nearby FM on 88.1 or above, those are suppose to be licensed FM's and the FCC is suppose to be aware of any interaction to a local DTV's signal on RF 6. In other words, they do *interference* studies before FM licenses are issued. The same is done with TV licenses.


True, but you don't think a strong nearby FM station on 88.1 could bleed-over enough onto RF 6 to cause a problem? Digital ATSC 1.0 & analog signals don't play nice together.


----------



## mrradiohead55

Brian in CT said:


> True, but you don't think a strong nearby FM station on 88.1 could bleed-over enough onto RF 6 to cause a problem? Digital ATSC 1.0 & analog signals don't play nice together.



Hey Brian in CT, I suppose it could be possible but I would think an FM on 88.1 would have to be a really strong signal and possibly in between Trailblazers antenna and the WPVI tower to interfere with a RF 6 signal. I wouldn't say its impossible but I would try to eliminate any 87.5 or 87.7 analog interference and work up from there. Process of elimination.


----------



## KyL416

After MHz Worldview shutsdown at the end of the month, WMBQ and WNDT are going to switch to FNX:
https://fnx.org/


----------



## DennisHPC

*Status of WMBC*

What is the current status of WMBC on Channel 18? Are they still broadcasting 1000Kw from Montclair Heights, or the ESB, or One WTC?


----------



## KyL416

They're still broadcasting from their DTS sites 1000 kW at Montclair and 90 kW at ESB. The application to move to 1WTC is still pending.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> They're still broadcasting from their DTS sites 1000 kW at Montclair and 90 kW at ESB. The application to move to 1WTC is still pending.


That application has been pending for years. Who knows if they are even still pursuing it.


----------



## KyL416

KCBS is producing WCBS's news tonight from LA since the Broadcast Center is still being cleansed. Lonnie's doing the weather reports in CT from the mobile weather lab.

The Boomer & Gio simulcast on CBS Sports Net is also pre-empted for the rest of the week since they use a control room in the broadcast center to televise the show.

CBSN and CBSN New York are mostly simulcasting CBSN Boston the rest of the day. At one point this morning WBZ's news aired on WCBS via CBSN Boston for a few minutes before they switched to Chris Wragge hosting from the CBSN studio with a skeleton crew.


EDIT: KPIX San Francisco is producing the news this morning

The noon news and WLNY's 9pm news were replaced with Inside Edition, hosted from Deborah Norville's kitchen since they also tape in a studio at the CBS Broadcast Center.


----------



## Brian in CT

Good news central Long Island! WCBS' DRT on RF 22 signed on yesterday from WLNY's transmitter site. This will definitely come in handy for me on the nights when WFSB cancels out WCBS.


----------



## pabuwal

Anyone notice a significant improvement in Channel 5's HD Picture Quality?


----------



## KEVINL71

Would that WCBS translator reach any portion of the Connecticut shoreline? I will guess no.


----------



## KyL416

KEVINL71 said:


> Would that WCBS translator reach any portion of the Connecticut shoreline? I will guess no.


And you would guess wrong, Brian's in Fairfield and just confirmed that he gets it:


Brian in CT said:


> WCBS' DRT on RF 22 signed on yesterday from WLNY's transmitter site. This will definitely come in handy for me on the nights when WFSB cancels out WCBS.


It has semi-decent coverage in Fairfield county, and the immediate shoreline outside of that contour also has a chance of getting it on a regular basis because of the effect of the LI Sound:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916ec6ebf9016ecc02c6751cce&site=2&map=Y


----------



## KEVINL71

Ah cool! Thanks for the tip! I remember receiving a VERY faint analog signal of channel 55 back in the day. I was in the south end of New Britain (CT), using an ordinary indoor rabbit ear setup. (I also used to get a VERY faint signal from the old channel 67 of Smithtown as well.)


----------



## Brian in CT

KyL416 said:


> It has semi-decent coverage in Fairfield county, and the immediate shoreline outside of that contour also has a chance of getting it on a regular basis because of the effect of the LI Sound:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f916ec6ebf9016ecc02c6751cce&site=2&map=Y


Unfortunately, the TBN LPTV station transmitting on RF channel 22 from the Empire State Building might throw a monkey wrench into the situation. If they haven't doubled their power yet (I think they are still using their STA power), co-channel interference problems could pop up when they do. Remember, the Rabbit Ears signal maps don't take CCI into account. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

KEVIN71, the WCBS DRT is low powered. Also, you have a Univision station on RF 22 in your neck of the woods. Maybe you could receive the LI DRT when ducting is good.


----------



## KyL416

It depends where you are in CT, it interferes in some portions closer to the NYS border like in the Greenwich and Stamford areas, but other areas further east like Bridgeport should be good:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...25076f916c859828016c8c55177e0e98&cir=&circen=

I'm not sure if they're still on the STA, it expired at the end of January and their last 399 filing in December said the work was completed.


----------



## NYC

KyL416 said:


> KCBS is producing WCBS's news tonight from LA since the Broadcast Center is still being cleansed. Lonnie's doing the weather reports in CT from the mobile weather lab.
> 
> The Boomer & Gio simulcast on CBS Sports Net is also pre-empted for the rest of the week since they use a control room in the broadcast center to televise the show.
> 
> 
> CBSN and CBSN New York are mostly simulcasting CBSN Boston the rest of the day. At one point this morning WBZ's news aired on WCBS via CBSN Boston for a few minutes before they switched to Chris Wragge hosting from the CBSN studio with a skeleton crew.
> 
> 
> EDIT: KPIX San Francisco is producing the news this morning
> 
> The noon news and WLNY's 9pm news were replaced with Inside Edition, hosted from Deborah Norville's kitchen since they also tape in a studio at the CBS Broadcast Center.


They have the CBSN NY studio up and running now and using it for the 11pm news. I recall the fire at CNBC and how NBC quickly set up a studio at the SNL studio. I also recall when WNBC had a fire and used CNBC as their home for a few days. How could CBS have absolutely no back up studio space in NYC? I recall that a camera was installed at the anchor desk at "News88" years ago (long before they ever thought of simulcasting on social media) in case of a crisis. Why did they not enlist their radio partners? Why did they not create a temporary studio at the theater they use for the Late Show?


----------



## General Custer

Brian in CT said:


> Good news central Long Island! WCBS' DRT on RF 22 signed on yesterday from WLNY's transmitter site. This will definitely come in handy for me on the nights when WFSB cancels out WCBS.


So I Did a rescan today and I see cbs on 36 and 22. Signal strength using signal gh on my iPhone connecting to my hd homerun shows a better signal on 22. When I go to watch on my channels app, It only shows one cbs station. Is this how’s it supposed to be or should I see two stations? Does it combine the two or just pick the stronger signal?

Thanks in advance


----------



## KyL416

CBS doesn't have sister radio stations anymore, the radio division and the stations were sold to Entercom a few years ago.

This was much more than not having access to their building. As of last check 4 staff members in the news division tested positive, and anyone who interacted with them are under quarantine, so it wasn't as simple as just having all the staff relocate like WNBC and WABC did. They're still operating with a bare bones skeleton production crew for each show and having everyone else work remotely for the next 2 weeks in case more people test positive.

During the 30 Rock fire at one point they were straight up rebroadcasting another NBC O&O (I think WCAU) until they were able to get back into the building and access the master control. WABC aired dead air during their fire until they were able to get back into the building and air the raw west coast feed for a few hours.

Now it's much more advanced they could do things remotely, one article said this was their disaster plan since they had to be prepped for an event where they wouldn't have access to the broadcast center or potentially any studio in NYC. They're already equiped to have newscasts anchored remotely since some of their standalone CW stations now have newscasts produced by CBS O&O's in another city. If it wasn't an outbreak involving the staff, they probably would have relocated to 1515 Broadway and use MTV's production facilities.


----------



## NYC

KyL416 said:


> CBS doesn't have sister radio stations anymore, the radio division and the stations were sold to Entercom a few years ago.
> 
> This was much more than not having access to their building. As of last check 4 staff members in the news division tested positive, and anyone who interacted with them are under quarantine, so it wasn't as simple as just having all the staff relocate like WNBC and WABC did. They're still operating with a bare bones skeleton production crew for each show and having everyone else work remotely for the next 2 weeks in case more people test positive.
> 
> During the 30 Rock fire at one point they were straight up rebroadcasting another NBC O&O (I think WCAU) until they were able to get back into the building and access the master control. WABC aired dead air during their fire until they were able to get back into the building and air the raw west coast feed for a few hours.
> 
> Now it's much more advanced they could do things remotely, one article said this was their disaster plan since they had to be prepped for an event where they wouldn't have access to the broadcast center or potentially any studio in NYC. They're already equiped to have newscasts anchored remotely since some of their standalone CW stations now have newscasts produced by CBS O&O's in another city. If it wasn't an outbreak involving the staff, they probably would have relocated to 1515 Broadway and use MTV's production facilities.


Thanks for the info. Odd, though, that there is no connection between CBS TV and radio yet the weather forecasters from CBS2 also provide weather reports on radio. Also Boston and other stations are still anchoring CBSN and CBSN NY, even though local anchors are back on over the air. It just does not project a good image for CBS. 
It was NBC Nightside, the now defunct overnight news service that WNBC used to fill until they were able to get back on the air. At least it was national news that WNBC aired, and not some other city's local news, as CBS is doing now.


----------



## KyL416

CBSN is one of the divisions being told to stay home, so they have CBSN Boston, CBSN San Francisco and now CBSN Los Angeles picking up the slack and covering more national stories when possible:
https://deadline.com/2020/03/corona...ubois-and-kristine-johnson-absent-1202883214/


> CBSN Friday will remain in Boston WBZ and later in the day from San Francisco, KPIX. CBSN is finalizing their weekend and next week plans. They will not be in the Broadcast Center next week.


Even though at one point KCBS and KPIX were producing WCBS's news, it was still "local" news and not just a rebroadcast of the the LA or SF news. Most of the CBS O&O's now have the same set, so all they needed to do was change the videoscreen to the NYC skyline and have WCBS's reporters out in the field. In KCBS's case it helped that they are also a "CBS 2" so they were able to use other parts of the set where the CBS 2 logo was visibile, while the KPIX morning production stuck to the anchor desk so you didn't see too many "CBS 5" logos.


The radio stations still share weather reporters because most radio stations these days have no in-house weather presenters and just partner with a local TV station or rely on pre-recorded reports commissioned from AccuWeather's or Weather Channel's radio service. Like even after ABC Radio was sold to Citadel (and later Cumulus) Bill Evans was still providing weather updates for 77 WABC in the mornings before they eventually switched to Weather Channel radio, while locally here in NEPA the Entercom stations use WNEP's weather reports.


----------



## NYC

KyL416 said:


> CBSN is one of the divisions being told to stay home, so they have CBSN Boston, CBSN San Francisco and CBSN Los Angeles picking up the slack and covering more national stories when possible:
> https://deadline.com/2020/03/corona...ubois-and-kristine-johnson-absent-1202883214/
> 
> 
> 
> CBSN Friday will remain in Boston WBZ and later in the day from San Francisco, KPIX. CBSN is finalizing their weekend and next week plans. They will not be in the Broadcast Center next week.
> 
> 
> 
> Even though at one point KCBS and KPIX were producing WCBS's news, it was still "local" news and not just a rebroadcast of the the LA or SF news. Most of the CBS O&O's now have the same set, so all they needed to do was change the videoscreen to the NYC skyline and have WCBS's reporters out in the field.
> 
> The radio stations still share weather reporters because most radio stations these days have no in-house weather presenters and just partner with a local TV station or rely on pre-recorded reports commissioned from AccuWeather's or Weather Channel's radio service. Like even after ABC Radio was sold to Citadel (and later Cumulus) Bill Evans was still providing weather updates for 77 WABC in the mornings before they eventually switched to Weather Channel radio, while locally here in NEPA the Entercom stations use WNEP's weather reports.
Click to expand...

The "local" news I saw had a lot of Corona virus reports with a heavy emphasis of local conditions in California, Boston or Denver along with weather reports for those same areas and then eventually Lonnie doing a very brief report with a single static fuzzy satellite image with the same report simply repeated several times over. All of it totally useless! CBS certainly could have done better. A group of college students could have done better than what CBS did!


----------



## General Custer

Looks like the channel 22 repeater is down now


----------



## General Custer

General Custer said:


> Looks like the channel 22 repeater is down now


Now it’s back


----------



## General Custer

General Custer said:


> Now it’s back


Gone again!


----------



## NYC

CBS2 news is now produced in studios that are located in Stamford, Connecticut. CBSN and the CBSN New York are still out of other cities and show extensive news and weather of those cities. CBS This Morning will originate out of the Late Night facility on Broadway. And viewers in Atlanta are complaining that they are getting Boston news as the Atlanta news that was produced by WCBS is now just CBS Boston. Didn't CBS have a studio on Long Island where Richard Rose did the WLNY public affairs show? It took more than a week and a half to move to other facilities to get some semblance of normal local news again. Compare that with low budget News12 (that did away with their pay wall for coverage of the ongoing crisis) which also faced a virus contamination, but relocated very quickly.


----------



## Jason Zarin

Thirteen reception?

Is anyone else having issues picking up 13? It completely disappeared for me last night after having great reception for months.


----------



## ansky212

Jason Zarin said:


> Thirteen reception?
> 
> Is anyone else having issues picking up 13? It completely disappeared for me last night after having great reception for months.


I have noticed shaky reception over the last few weeks too. Some days it's fine. Other days I can barely pick them up at all. They are supposed to move to channel 12 on May 1 with a slight power increase, but with the city mostly shut down I would have to think that is going to get delayed.


----------



## Useeme1234

13 is broadcasting at a lower power.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> 13 is broadcasting at a lower power.


How much lower can low go? 

Possibly work is being done in anticipation of the May switch to Channel 12.


----------



## ansky212

Is there a technical reason as to why they are broadcasting at such low power compared to other NYC stations? Or is it just a cost savings measure? Even when they move to channel 12 the power increase is almost negligible.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Is there a technical reason as to why they are broadcasting at such low power compared to other NYC stations? Or is it just a cost savings measure? Even when they move to channel 12 the power increase is almost negligible.


First, and more importantly, I just checked the RabbitEars Live Bandscan from Fair Lawn, NJ,
and RF 13 has not reduced its power! 

Second, a station cannot summarily reduce power to save money.

Any long term reduction in power needs FCC approval.


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> Is there a technical reason as to why they are broadcasting at such low power compared to other NYC stations? Or is it just a cost savings measure? Even when they move to channel 12 the power increase is almost negligible.


VHF doesn't need as much power as UHF stations to reach similar distances. Their current signal gives them a 61.6 mile range and their RF 12 signal will give them a 64.2 mile range, which is comparable to the major NYC UHF stations like WCBS (68.4), WNBC (67.6), WNYW (56.7) and WWOR (55.6).

However WNET is tightly packed with co-channel RF 13 stations WYOU Scranton, WNYA Albany and for the next month or so, WGBY Springfield, who moved to RF 13 back in Phase 4. So even the slightest atmospheric boost can create problems in outer areas like New Jersey, Connecticut and the Hudson Valley. Post repack they will be on RF 12, and co-channel with WYOU Scranton, WNYT Albany and WNAC Providence.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> First, and more importantly, I just checked the RabbitEars Live Bandscan from Fair Lawn, NJ,
> and RF 13 has not reduced its power!
> 
> Second, a station cannot summarily reduce power to save money.
> 
> Any long term reduction in power needs FCC approval.


I'm not saying WNET reduced their power, I'm just comparing their ERP to other NYC channels. For example, WNBC has an ERP of 575kw, while WNET's ERP is only 4kw. Does UHF vs. VHF account for such a large difference?


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> Does UHF vs. VHF account for such a large difference?


Yes, see the post right above yours. VHF doesn't need nearly as much power as UHF to reach the same distance, the lower the frequency the less power needed.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Yes, see the post right above yours. VHF doesn't need nearly as much power as UHF to reach the same distance, the lower the frequency the less power needed.


Actually, a better comparison is WABC since they are on VHF. WABC has an ERP of 34kw. That's more than 8 times higher power than WNET!


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> Actually, a better comparison is WABC since they are on VHF. WABC has an ERP of 34kw. That's more than 8 times higher power than WNET!


Not really, that's just looking at the power. WABC transmits from the ESB which is about 300 feet lower in height than 1WTC. In the end it still gives them a comparable 68.5 mile contour. They were able to get a slightly larger area because they don't have to protect co-channel stations in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton like WNET and WPIX do. WABC only has to worry about RF7 stations in Albany and Providence.

WJLP on the otherhand is currently operating on a STA for 26.5 kW at 1116' from 4 Times Square that gives them a 73.9 mile contour and will have a 72.1 mile contour when they move to 1WTC with 9 kW at 1562', but that's mostly to overcome the ambient noise problems that exist in VHF-lo. Their licensed 4 Times Square facility was for 6.96 kW which gave them a 65.4 mile contour.


----------



## SnellKrell

KyL416 said:


> Not really, that's just looking at the power. WABC transmits from the ESB which is about 300 feet lower in height than 1WTC. In the end it still gives them a comparable 68.5 mile range.
> 
> WJLP on the otherhand is currently operating on a STA for 26.5 kW at 1116' from 4 Times Square that gives them a 73.9 mile contour and will have a 72.1 mile contour when they move to 1WTC with 9 kW at 1562', but that's mostly to overcome the ambient noise problems that exist in VHF-lo.


Don't forget that WABC was authorized to use the same 34kW ERP at 1660' if it chose to move to 1WTC.


----------



## KyL416

SnellKrell said:


> Don't forget that WABC was authorized to use the same 34kW ERP at 1660' if it chose to move to 1WTC.


Yep, but the difference there is WABC doesn't have to worry about co-channel RF 7 stations in nearby Scranton like WNET and WPIX do. That's why back in 2012 WABC was able to petition for an increase to help overcome noise issues after their initial 2009 authorization of 11.69 kW.

i.e. WPIX, who has to worry about WBRE in NEPA, is authorized for 7.5 kW at 1329' from ESB which gives them a 60.5 contour, and their 1WTC construction permit is for 5.5 kW at 1660' to give them a 61.8 contour. While WNET's original ESB authorization was for 9.3 kW at 1329'. If there was a RF 7 in Scranton, WABC would have had to drop their power if they wanted to move to 1WTC and wouldn't have been granted those increases after 2009.

Here's a comparison of the maps:
WABC with the closest co-channel stations in Binghamton, Albany and Providence:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...16738227fd104117bad5cf6212b6c0ea&cir=&circen=

WPIX with WBRE and WWLP:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...13fc2d19e807468e9570cf6212b6c0ea&cir=&circen=

WNET (both original ESB and current 1WTC) with WYOU, WNYA and WGBY:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...0db24c39a70c40ae87c8cf6212b6c0ea&cir=&circen=

WNET post-repack with WYOU, WNYT and WNAC:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...0247268172fa48b5a544cf6212b6c0ea&cir=&circen=


Also keep in mind the original 2009 authorizations were mostly based on their analog coverage area, of course with the caveat that what passed as "snowy but watchable" in analog isn't enough for digital reception in fringe areas. So some stations were granted larger coverage areas than others. Fast forward a few years the VHF stations without co-channel problems like WRGB, WPVI, WABC, WNJB, WBPH and WHYY were able to petition the FCC for increases because of the increased ambient noise level.

Fast forward to the repack, a new maximization window opened and other stations were able to file requests to change sites and/or increase their power to have a coverage area based on the "largest station" in the market, while the VHF-lo stations like WJLP, WACP and WDPN were able to file for further increases to get over the ambient noise levels. During the maximization window WABC was considered the "largest" for NYC, WPVI was considered the "largest" for Philly and WBRE was considered the "largest" for Scranton. But with the VHF-lo stations getting their increase, technically WJLP now has the largest signal for NYC and WDPN has the largest signal for Philly.

For comaprison on who had the largest coverage areas and to see how it was preserved post-transition, this was the pre-9/11 North Tower facilities for the analog VHF-Hi stations and what their digital power was in 2009:
WABC - 64.6 kW at 1611' -> 11.69 kW Digital
WWOR - 61.7 kW at 1640' (Moved to UHF for digital)
WPIX - 58.9 kW at 1660' -> 7.5 kW Digital
WNET - 60.3 kW at 1640' -> 9.39 kW Digital


----------



## KyL416

WNET filed a request to move to Phase 10:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f9170ea8c7d0170f964a3b127b4


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WNET filed a request to move to Phase 10:
> https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f9170ea8c7d0170f964a3b127b4


Right in line with what I predicted in a previous post.


----------



## Jason Zarin

Jason Zarin said:


> Thirteen reception?
> 
> Is anyone else having issues picking up 13? It completely disappeared for me last night after having great reception for months.


Thanks all. Glad at least channel 21 replays everything we normally record off 13. So i'll just tell mythtv to ignore 13 for a few days and hope they fix their issues.


----------



## KyL416

What's your location and what's your setup? Something else is causing your issue, depending on where you are it could be co-channel interference, it could be something physical like antenna element damage, worn connectors, the power supply if you have a preamp, or other external factors. (i.e. LED Noise, solar panel inverters, etc)

Useeme1234 was incorrect in saying RF 13 is broadcasting at reduced power. Since July 2018 they've been operating from 1WTC, and even at 4 kW, the difference in height still gives them a larger coverage area than their Empire State Building signal did.

Like SnellKrell said, the area live bandscans don't show any change for RF 13 in recent days, and if it was operating at reduced power the quality of my reception of WYOU in the Poconos would go up due to the lack of co-channel interference from WNET:
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WNET


----------



## Brian in CT

Jason Zarin said:


> Thirteen reception?
> 
> Is anyone else having issues picking up 13? It completely disappeared for me last night after having great reception for months.


You might be new to OTA, so you should know about "tropospheric ducting." This is not to be confused with "ionic skip," which mostly effects just VHF-Lo signals. In the northeastern USA, mostly between April and October, there are nights when a temperature inversion in the atmosphere causes enhancement to any VHF or UHF signal in the inversion duct. This might of happened to you last night. The bottom line is, back in the analog era I would get TV stations from as far north as Boston and as far south as Norfolk on nights of extreme ducting activity. Today, with a smaller TV band, TV stations on co-channels packed in like sardines, and an ATSC 1.0 digital transmission system that can't handle even minor co-channel interference, you're going to have dropouts of locals on certain nights.

In my case, I lose WCBS (RF 36) about 20 nights a year, when even minor atmospheric enhancement from WFSB in Hartford causes both stations to cancel each other out. Depending on where you're located, this could happen to you on some TV station(s) over the summer.


----------



## Jason Zarin

KyL416 said:


> What's your location and what's your setup? Something else is causing your issue, depending on where you are it could be co-channel interference, it could be something physical like antenna element damage, worn connectors, the power supply if you have a preamp, or other external factors. (i.e. LED Noise, solar panel inverters, etc)
> 
> Useeme1234 was incorrect in saying RF 13 is broadcasting at reduced power. Since July 2018 they've been operating from 1WTC, and even at 4 kW, the difference in height still gives them a larger coverage area than their Empire State Building signal did.


Mamaroneck. I have an indoor flat antenna, so I don't expect miracles, but it's worked fine. 13 has generally been stable, although there have been occasional blockings in poor weather.


----------



## Jason Zarin

Jason Zarin said:


> Mamaroneck. I have an indoor flat antenna, so I don't expect miracles, but it's worked fine. 13 has generally been stable, although there have been occasional blockings in poor weather.


And of course, now I check and everything's back to normal.


----------



## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> VHF doesn't need as much power as UHF stations to reach similar distances. Their current signal gives them a 61.6 mile range and their RF 12 signal will give them a 64.2 mile range, which is comparable to the major NYC UHF stations like WCBS (68.4), WNBC (67.6), WNYW (56.7) and WWOR (55.6).
> 
> However WNET is tightly packed with co-channel RF 13 stations WYOU Scranton, WNYA Albany and for the next month or so, WGBY Springfield, who moved to RF 13 back in Phase 4. So even the slightest atmospheric boost can create problems in outer areas like New Jersey, Connecticut and the Hudson Valley. Post repack they will be on RF 12, and co-channel with WYOU Scranton, WNYT Albany and WNAC Providence.


What wnet13 should petition for a different frequency like ch10 there is nobody at that frequency,
Nobody to compete with


----------



## Trip in VA

Useeme1234 said:


> What wnet13 should petition for a different frequency like ch10 there is nobody at that frequency,
> Nobody to compete with


WTNH.

- Trip


----------



## KyL416

There is nothing left for WNET or any other full power station to move to and retain their coverage area unless they want to move to VHF 5. Plus, if they really wanted it, they could have taken the FCC up on their offer to pay stations to move to VHF-Lo like WGBH Boston and WSBE Providence did. And yes there's WLIW which is now their sister station and took advantage of the maximization window to move to 1WTC, but even if the FCC allowed WNET and WLIW to swap facilities, they have a smaller 56.5 mile contour, compared to what will be WNET's 64.2 mile contour.

These are the full power and Class A allotments in NYC and surrounding markets post-repack (LP stations are not protected so if a full power or Class A station was given their allotment, they would have to find something else):
2 - WDPN
3 - WJLP
4 - WACP
5 - (Closest full power station is WMDE Dover, which transmits closer to DC)
6 - WPVI
7 - WABC
8 - WNJB
9 - WBPH/WEDN
10 - WTNH
11 - WPIX (WBRE Scranton)
12 - WNET (WYOU Scranton)
13 - WHYY
14 - Land Mobile NYC
15 - Land Mobile NYC
16 - Land Mobile NYC
17 - WPHL
18 - WMBC/WVVH-CD
19 - Land Mobile PHL
20 - Land Mobile PHL
21 - WEDW (WNEP Scranton)
22 - WDVB-CD (WOLF Scranton)
23 - WFTY (WNJS South Jersey)
24 - WNYE
25 - WWOR
26 - WFUT
27 - WNYW
28 - WCAU/WHPX
29 - WLNY
30 - KYW/WEDH
31 - WTXF/WVIT
32 - WLIW
33 - WPSG/WCCT/WQPX
34 - WPXN (WTIC Hartford, WSWB Scranton, and WPPX Philly)
35 - WNJU
36 - WCBS (WFSB Hartford and WMGM Atlantic City)


----------



## Useeme1234

Trip in VA said:


> WTNH.
> 
> - Trip


My bad you right trip, how you doing bud?


----------



## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> There is nothing left for WNET or any other full power station to move to and retain their coverage area unless they want to move to VHF 5. Plus, if they really wanted it, they could have taken the FCC up on their offer to pay stations to move to VHF-Lo like WGBH Boston and WSBE Providence did. And yes there's WLIW which is now their sister station and took advantage of the maximization window to move to 1WTC, but even if the FCC allowed WNET and WLIW to swap facilities, they have a smaller 56.5 mile contour, compared to what will be WNET's 64.2 mile contour.
> 
> These are the full power and Class A allotments in NYC and surrounding markets post-repack (LP stations are not protected so if a full power or Class A station was given their allotment, they would have to find something else):
> 2 - WDPN
> 3 - WJLP
> 4 - WACP
> 5 - (Closest full power station is WMDE Dover, which transmits closer to DC)
> 6 - WPVI
> 7 - WABC
> 8 - WNJB
> 9 - WBPH/WEDN
> 10 - WTNH
> 11 - WPIX (WBRE Scranton)
> 12 - WNET (WYOU Scranton)
> 13 - WHYY
> 14 - Land Mobile NYC
> 15 - Land Mobile NYC
> 16 - Land Mobile NYC
> 17 - WPHL
> 18 - WMBC/WVVH-CD
> 19 - Land Mobile PHL
> 20 - Land Mobile PHL
> 21 - WEDW (WNEP Scranton)
> 22 - WDVB-CD (WOLF Scranton)
> 23 - WFTY (WNJS South Jersey)
> 24 - WNYE
> 25 - WWOR
> 26 - WFUT
> 27 - WNYW
> 28 - WCAU/WHPX
> 29 - WLNY
> 30 - KYW/WEDH
> 31 - WTXF/WVIT
> 32 - WLIW
> 33 - WPSG/WCCT/WQPX
> 34 - WPXN (WTIC Hartford, WSWB Scranton, and WPPX Philly)
> 35 - WNJU (WMGM Atlantic City)
> 36 - WCBS (WFSB Hartford)


 #33 During summer with tropo I used to get all those tv stations, I bet I won't anymore.


----------



## Brian in CT

Jason Zarin said:


> Mamaroneck. I have an indoor flat antenna, so I don't expect miracles, but it's worked fine. 13 has generally been stable, although there have been occasional blockings in poor weather.


As you probably already know, those "flat antennas" are optimal only for UHF reception. The only reason you're receiving WNET (and likely WABC & WPIX, which should both come in stronger in your area) is due to your close proximity to ESB & 1WTC. Unfortunately, you might not be close enough for consistently reliable VHF reception with your current antenna. You could check out small duel band (VHF/UHF) antennas with some directionality to them on the internet. Something just a cut above the standard rabbit ears & loop combo. That should help keep WNET locked in much better.


----------



## KEVINL71

I assume that no channel sharing was on that list? VHF channel 10 is for WTNH-TV. They house WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven on channel 8-3 ("59-1").


----------



## KyL416

The list would have gotten too complicated if I included every channel share in NYC, Philly, Hartford and Scranton so I only listed the "Host" stations, and I left out the numerous NYC area LP/LD stations that are co-channel with full power stations in neighboring markets since they aren't protected.


----------



## KEVINL71

OK. So just a list for clarity. I understand. Didn't think the list was that crowded! As odd as this sounds, I once played a combo for Connecticut's in-state Lotto! game (pick 6 out of 44) based on the older digital assignments here:

10 (8 New Haven)
20 (20 Waterbury)
31 (61 Hartford)
33 (3 Hartford)
35 (30 New Britain)
39 (59 New Haven)

Instead, I use the following for one of two Lotto combos I would play in New York state. The so-called ABC New England Board:

5 - Boston/Worcester
6 - Providence/New Bedford, MA
8 - *HARTFORD/NEW HAVEN* and Portland/Poland Spring, ME (the two markets I have lived in as well)
9 - Manchester, NH
22 - Burlington, VT/Plattsburgh, NY
40 - Springfield, MA


----------



## SnellKrell

KEVINL71 said:


> OK. So just a list for clarity. I understand. Didn't think the list was that crowded! As odd as this sounds, I once played a combo for Connecticut's in-state Lotto! game (pick 6 out of 44) based on the older digital assignments here:
> 
> 10 (8 New Haven)
> 20 (20 Waterbury)
> 31 (61 Hartford)
> 33 (3 Hartford)
> 35 (30 New Britain)
> 39 (59 New Haven)
> 
> Instead, I use the following for one of two Lotto combos I would play in New York state. The so-called ABC New England Board:
> 
> 5 - Boston/Worcester
> 6 - Providence/New Bedford, MA
> 8 - *HARTFORD/NEW HAVEN* and Portland/Poland Spring, ME (the two markets I have lived in as well)
> 9 - Manchester, NH
> 22 - Burlington, VT/Plattsburgh, NY
> 40 - Springfield, MA


Any winnings?


----------



## KEVINL71

I think I won 4 numbers with the 10-20-31-33-35-39 board once. $68 with the Lotto! game here in CT. (Parimutuel payout on 4 and 5 numbers, while 3/6 is a fixed $2 prize.) Can't recall ever winning anything on NY's Lotto with it. 

I could swear I got burned with MA's Megabucks Doubler after New Year's once. I had gone south to Philadelphia and had numbers there, possibly for PA's Match 6 Lotto game using 5-6-8-9-22-40. Had I gone north through Boston en route to Portland, ME, I would've had 5 out of 6 for $1,000. (I've never won more than $500...all scratch tickets either here in CT, ME and NY.)

OK...back to television now!


----------



## logger-a

KEVINL71 said:


> I assume that no channel sharing was on that list? VHF channel 10 is for WTNH-TV. They house WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven on channel 8-3 ("59-1").


It looks as if WCTX-DT will soon no longer be an affiliate of MyNetworkTV. Starting March 30, WCTX-DT will no longer carry the 8 PM to 10 PM Monday through Friday programming of MyNetworkTV. WCTX-DT will carry news programming, in addition to the news programming that has been in the 10 PM to 11 PM time slot.

WCTX-DT is unrelated to channel 8-3. WCTX-DT is physical channel 10.5 with a virtual channel number of 59-1. Prior to WCTX being a channel sharing guest of WTNH, 8-3 was a virtual channel with the standard definition video version of the primary programming of WTNH.


----------



## KyL416

logger-a said:


> It looks as if WCTX-DT will soon no longer be an affiliate of MyNetworkTV. Starting March 30, WCTX-DT will no longer carry the 8 PM to 10 PM Monday through Friday programming of MyNetworkTV.


WCTX is still going to be a MyNet affiliate, they're just going to carry it delayed from 11:35pm-1:35am. They're not the first MyNet affiliates to do this, even some ones owned by Fox like KDFI and WDCA delay it too. WPHL in Philly does too, they run syndicated sitcoms during primetime and MyNetworkTV between 2am-4am.


----------



## MadMan400096

KyL416 said:


> WCTX is still going to be a MyNet affiliate, they're just going to carry it delayed from 11:35pm-1:35am. They're not the first MyNet affiliates to do this, even some ones owned by Fox like KDFI and WDCA delay it too. WPHL in Philly does too, they run syndicated sitcoms during primetime and MyNetworkTV between 2am-4am.


There's also a lot of stations that air it as a supplement to an affiliation to a real network. For instance, WGGB-DT2, the Fox affiliate in the Springfield, MA market where I live, MyNet is aired in the exact same time slot that WCTX is apparently moving the shows to.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WCTX is still going to be a MyNet affiliate, they're just going to carry it delayed from 11:35pm-1:35am. They're not the first MyNet affiliates to do this, even some ones owned by Fox like KDFI and WDCA delay it too. WPHL in Philly does too, they run syndicated sitcoms during primetime and MyNetworkTV between 2am-4am.


That just goes to show how poorly they think of MYN programming. I wish WWOR would follow suit.


----------



## KyL416

WWOR kind of did a few years ago. They had their own package of classic early season Simpsons episodes on Thursday nights and delayed MyNet's Thursday night lineup to Saturdays.

Also, after they lost SmackDown and gave up on first-run programming, they stopped classifying themselves as a "network" and now consider themselves a syndicated programming service. Many affiliates just use them as filler when they're not airing local or syndicated sports weeknights.


----------



## hancox

Trip in VA said:


> WTNH.
> 
> - Trip


( yells at cloud )

What's the big deal? Didn't stop them with WCBS / WFSB, and with the same network affiliation, no less!!??!!


----------



## Trip in VA

hancox said:


> ( yells at cloud )
> 
> What's the big deal? Didn't stop them with WCBS / WFSB, and with the same network affiliation, no less!!??!!


There are a few differences. 

First, WPIX and WFSB were assigned to channel 33 at the same time in the initial table of allotments going back to the 1990s, so the co-channeling of WFSB with a station in New York was more or less pre-existing--WCBS just slid into the space that WPIX abandoned since there was really nowhere else that WCBS would fit. (45 would have been better, but ABC was doing their own thing at the time and trying to hold a contingent claim to both 7 and 45, so CBS couldn't ask for 45.) WNET moving to 10, by contrast, would be a new short-spacing. The FCC doesn't particularly like short-spacing like that, but if it's pre-existing, will not affirmatively act to break it up, since often there is no sensible way to do so. The FCC will not, however, create new short-spacings without the consent of both stations and a very good reason. 

Second, WCBS/WFSB constitutes far less of an overlap than WNET/WTNH would. Compare:

WCBS/WFSB: https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...25076ff36c4dc2ee016c5c8950a81240&cir=&circen=

WNET/WTNH: https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...25076ff36446e0a801645d0693cf31c9&cir=&circen=

WNET would go from clear, if difficult, reception to still-difficult reception that fights with interference across much of Long Island and areas north of Yonkers. If the purpose of a relocation of WNET is to improve reception, a move to channel 10 would not provide it.

- Trip


----------



## kc9hzn

I live in an apartment in Crown Heights. I get WABC in well enough with my current indoor antenna, but I don’t get WNET (but I do get WLIW, don’t know why that is). Obviously, if I want to receive WNET, I need a VHF-Hi antenna (or at least an antenna with rabbit ears). Back in Illinois, I used a Terk HDTVa and never had great luck with VHF, but I recognize I’m a lot closer to 1 WTC than I ever was to any of the VHF transmitter sites back home. Would a pair of rabbit ears be sufficient for tuning in WNET? Also, in general, what kind of antenna should I be shopping for? I feel like I can receive most of what I want, I get WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WPIX, WLIW, and WJLP (or, more likely the UHF repeater). I would like to be able to potentially get Connecticut or Philly stations, but I get enough channels as is. Should I consider a highly directional indoor antenna like the HDTVa or HDTVi? Back home, I wouldn’t have thought twice about buying an amplified antenna, but now, I’m not so sure. Would an amplified antenna help me get WNET better? Do I need to consider VHF-Lo? WJLP is VHF-Lo, but I get good enough reception either from it or the UHF simulcast. Also, is it worth trying to tune in WLNY? Also, this question is slightly off topic, but is there enough content to consider buying an HD Radio, and should I hold out for one with AM reception? Sorry about all the questions, it’s just that TV reception here is significantly different from what I’m used to.


----------



## KyL416

WJLP doesn't have a UHF repeater.

Crown Heights is an area where the 1WTC and Empire State Building stations are coming from slightly different directions, so if you're using something indoor you might have to experiment to find a sweet spot, especially if there's other buildings in one of the directions.

The only chance you have getting WLNY is with a deep fringe UHF antenna on the roof pointed East, but don't get used to it. W31EF-D and WPXU-LD will be moving to RF 29 in Manhattan and easily overpower WLNY in Brooklyn.

HDRadio it really depends on your tastes in music or if there's specific content you're looking for:
https://hdradio.com/stations/


----------



## ansky212

kc9hzn said:


> I live in an apartment in Crown Heights. I get WABC in well enough with my current indoor antenna, but I don’t get WNET (but I do get WLIW, don’t know why that is). Obviously, if I want to receive WNET, I need a VHF-Hi antenna (or at least an antenna with rabbit ears). Back in Illinois, I used a Terk HDTVa and never had great luck with VHF, but I recognize I’m a lot closer to 1 WTC than I ever was to any of the VHF transmitter sites back home. Would a pair of rabbit ears be sufficient for tuning in WNET? Also, in general, what kind of antenna should I be shopping for? I feel like I can receive most of what I want, I get WABC, WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, WPIX, WLIW, and WJLP (or, more likely the UHF repeater). I would like to be able to potentially get Connecticut or Philly stations, but I get enough channels as is. Should I consider a highly directional indoor antenna like the HDTVa or HDTVi? Back home, I wouldn’t have thought twice about buying an amplified antenna, but now, I’m not so sure. Would an amplified antenna help me get WNET better? Do I need to consider VHF-Lo? WJLP is VHF-Lo, but I get good enough reception either from it or the UHF simulcast. Also, is it worth trying to tune in WLNY? Also, this question is slightly off topic, but is there enough content to consider buying an HD Radio, and should I hold out for one with AM reception? Sorry about all the questions, it’s just that TV reception here is significantly different from what I’m used to.


As I mentioned in an earlier post, the power output of WNET is significantly less than WABC, so the in-building penetration is going to be lower even once you get your antenna pointed in the right direction. WNET's frequency is in between WABC and WLIW which you are already picking up, which means you likely don't need to buy a different VHF-hi antenna.


----------



## kc9hzn

ansky212 said:


> As I mentioned in an earlier post, the power output of WNET is significantly less than WABC, so the in-building penetration is going to be lower even once you get your antenna pointed in the right direction. WNET's frequency is in between WABC and WLIW which you are already picking up, which means you likely don't need to buy a different VHF-hi antenna.


The 1 WTC site is only about 6 miles away LOS. WNET doesn’t show up on my TVFool report. Granted, I live in a brownstone on the second level, my in-building penetration is going to be low, especially given WNET’s lower power and the VHF performance of my antenna.


----------



## KyL416

TVfool has been broken ever since the FCC made changes to their database to indicate spectrum sharing, it's stuck on a database that's 3 years old which makes their predictions and maps useless for a market like NYC where a bunch of stations have since changed towers, RF numbers and/or their power/signal patterns. Use the RabbitEars search instead:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

As of now WNET is the only VHF station at 1WTC which, from Crown Heights, is at a different direction compared to the other VHF stations like WABC and WPIX that come from the Empire State Building, while WJLP, who will be moving to 1WTC in the near future, currently comes from 4 Times Square. You might have a chance to get WNJB from New Jersey too, but it's significantly weaker east of Manhattan.

The Terk HDTVa does have VHF dipoles, and since you're getting WJLP of all channels, it should be fine since you're in close proximity to the towers. But being in a Brownstone complicates things a lot, especially if it's a rowhouse and other brownstones or one of your brickwalls are blocking things in some directions. You likely need to experiment to find a better sweet spot that lets you get VHF stations from Downtown (1WTC) and Midtown (ESB and 4TS) at the same time.


----------



## Brian in CT

kc9hzn said:


> The 1 WTC site is only about 6 miles away LOS. Granted, I live in a brownstone on the second level, my in-building penetration is going to be low, especially given WNET’s lower power and the VHF performance of my antenna.


Well, at least you're on the second floor. You've avoided most of the ground floor obstructions that would've made your reception worse. The brownstone is still a problem for VHF signals, though. Where is you're antenna located? I ask because if you have a west facing window, that would be the best spot for it.

There is a user on this thread living in upper Manhattan on the second floor of a concrete building (even worse for VHF signals). He was able to put an indoor antenna in front of a south facing window, and now is getting very good reception (VHF & UHF) through the canyons of NYC. Who knows, a west looking window antenna placement could be all you need to receive WNET. It's worth a shot before pursuing costly alternatives. Then again, you could wait until WNET moves to RF channel 12 (with more power) this summer.


----------



## Useeme1234

Brian in CT said:


> Well, at least you're on the second floor. You've avoided most of the ground floor obstructions that would've made your reception worse. The brownstone is still a problem for VHF signals, though. Where is you're antenna located? I ask because if you have a west facing window, that would be the best spot for it.
> 
> There is a user on this thread living in upper Manhattan on the second floor of a concrete building (even worse for VHF signals). He was able to put an indoor antenna in front of a south facing window, and now is getting very good reception (VHF & UHF) through the canyons of NYC. Who knows, a west looking window antenna placement could be all you need to receive WNET. It's worth a shot before pursuing costly alternatives. Then again, you could wait until WNET moves to RF channel 12 (with more power) this summer.


When summer comes along, tree folliage is gonna make things problematic.


----------



## Brian in CT

Useeme1234 said:


> When summer comes along, tree foliage is gonna make things problematic.


Does a tree grow in Brooklyn?  Since he is so close to the towers at 1WTC & ESB, I figure it would have to be a strong wind (or a really close tree) to have the foliage really mess with his reception. My place is about 50 miles outside NYC and surrounded by tall trees (but they're not too close). The wind usually has to blow at least 25 MPH to get my UHF TV signals to pixelate.

You do bring up a good point. For all I know, there could be a huge tree right outside his window.


----------



## MeatChicken

Did something chage with the WLIW signal? I've noticed a very weak and/or unusable signal the last couple weeks in SW Nassau, attic antenna pointed at Manhattan....


----------



## Useeme1234

Brian in CT said:


> Does a tree grow in Brooklyn?  Since he is so close to the towers at 1WTC & ESB, I figure it would have to be a strong wind (or a really close tree) to have the foliage really mess with his reception. My place is about 50 miles outside NYC and surrounded by tall trees (but they're not too close). The wind usually has to blow at least 25 MPH to get my UHF TV signals to pixelate.
> 
> You do bring up a good point. For all I know, there could be a huge tree right outside his window.


Brian dont need to be a wiseass okay, I just made a comment, if you have issue with it, nobody is asking your input


----------



## KyL416

MeatChicken said:


> Did something chage with the WLIW signal? I've noticed a very weak and/or unusable signal the last couple weeks in SW Nassau, attic antenna pointed at Manhattan....


The 3 NYC area live bandscans over at rabbitears don't show any recent changes in WLIW's signal.


----------



## Brian in CT

Useeme1234 said:


> Brian dont need to be a wiseass okay, I just made a comment, if you have issue with it, nobody is asking your input


Sorry for making a joke at your expense. My bad.  I've never read the book myself.


----------



## ansky212

MeatChicken said:


> Did something chage with the WLIW signal? I've noticed a very weak and/or unusable signal the last couple weeks in SW Nassau, attic antenna pointed at Manhattan....


I recorded a show on WLIW last week and it was fine. I'm in Jersey.


----------



## marlowja

I just did a random rescan in here in Brooklyn, and I’m getting a “mode not supported” message on a new 18-6 channel. There’s no useful PSIP I can see, and I haven’t been able to find any info on RabbitEars for a physical channel 18. Any guesses?


----------



## Trip in VA

WMBC turned off the PSIP on 63-4.

- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> WMBC turned off the PSIP on 63-4.
> 
> - Trip


Trip, now that some of us jumped on the hdhomerun ATSC 3.0 tuner kickstarter that we should receive by July, do you know what/when/where are NYC's plan for 3.0? i know nothing will happen by the time the tuners shipped, but I'm curious to see if there is anything planned for this year and when. thanks


----------



## ansky212

Aero 1 said:


> Trip, now that some of us jumped on the hdhomerun ATSC 3.0 tuner kickstarter that we should receive by July, do you know what/when/where are NYC's plan for 3.0? i know nothing will happen by the time the tuners shipped, but I'm curious to see if there is anything planned for this year and when. thanks


Given that the city has been pretty much shut down over the past 6 weeks, and shows virtually no signs of restarting anytime soon, I doubt much is going to be happening this year.


----------



## Trip in VA

Unfortunately, I have no relevant information beyond what's otherwise public. 

- Trip


----------



## General Custer

Anyone else notice The WCBS translator at channel 22 is down over the past few days?


----------



## kkclstuff

*NYC: OTA signal, LTE LPF or line amplifier?*

HI 
New member, love the forum! I recently 'cut the cord' and trying to setup my apt for OTA.

Some background: 
1978 46fl high-rise in mid-town manhattan with rooftop antenna feeding all apts via wall outlet (75/300FM), 2020 Sony Bravia TV.

Issue:
the signal is strong and receive most of all available channels But on occasion Ch 5.1-5.5 (fox), and 10.1(WLNY) either 'go dark' or exhibit jitter (blocky reception). 

It doesn't seem to be related to weather like the old school rabbit-ears, im guessing its interference (I am close to a Tmobile antenna). I've tried adding an indoor RCA amplifier to test if it needed a signal boost—while this helped the jitter sporadically comes back. After some searching, I see there's a LTE filter. 


So now im wondering, do I need a LTE LPF or line amplifier (or both?) to clean up though last few stations?

Thanks for you insight and help


----------



## kkclstuff

wall outlet (75/300FM)

I'd love to get rid of this for two coax or better yet a splitter in the wall to run a line to the room on the other side of the wall.


----------



## marlowja

Welcome! Quite impressive that you're receiving WLNY from Midtown - I don't think interference would be the issue for that, but rather the sheet distance from the towers far out in Suffolk. Regarding WNYW, I've had spotty reception in Brooklyn recently, not sure if they're doing work or not.


----------



## kkclstuff

Thanks for the info! ch10.1 has been dormant for past 3-4months but before that I would watch it regularly. Good to hear about fox5+ its been been bad the past few weeks.


----------



## tld

*WNET Repack?*

Just curious. Everything I've seen indicates that the WNET (13.1 etc) repack move from VHF 13 to 12 (and the reverse for Philly 12.1) was supposed to happen Friday 5/1 and clearly nothing's changed. Anyone hear any news on that one?

It seems the web sites for these stations are completely devoid of any info about their frequency changes for some reason.


----------



## SnellKrell

tld said:


> Just curious. Everything I've seen indicates that the WNET (13.1 etc) repack move from VHF 13 to 12 (and the reverse for Philly 12.1) was supposed to happen Friday 5/1 and clearly nothing's changed. Anyone hear any news on that one?
> 
> It seems the web sites for these stations are completely devoid of any info about their frequency changes for some reason.


Due to the coronavirus and he inability for work to be done on 1WTC, the move to Channel 12
has been postponed until early July.


----------



## tld

SnellKrell said:


> Due to the coronavirus and he inability for work to be done on 1WTC, the move to Channel 12
> has been postponed until early July.


Ahhh...that makes sense. Thanks!


----------



## ansky212

What ever happened with the DTS app for WEDW moving to Empire? Is that DOA at this point?


----------



## KyL416

It's still most likely happening, the construction permit for the DTS was granted last year, but WEDW is focusing on building out their main Trumbull site first and waiting for the FCC to finally dismiss WJLP's baseless objections for good before investing in the buildout of the ESB site.


----------



## DrDon

Threads merged.

Reminder to use CALL LETTERS and not channel numbers, please.


----------



## jrampoldi

kkclstuff said:


> HI
> New member, love the forum! I recently 'cut the cord' and trying to setup my apt for OTA.
> 
> Some background:
> 1978 46fl high-rise in mid-town manhattan with rooftop antenna feeding all apts via wall outlet (75/300FM), 2020 Sony Bravia TV.
> 
> Issue:
> the signal is strong and receive most of all available channels But on occasion Ch 5.1-5.5 (fox), and 10.1(WLNY) either 'go dark' or exhibit jitter (blocky reception).
> 
> It doesn't seem to be related to weather like the old school rabbit-ears, im guessing its interference (I am close to a Tmobile antenna). I've tried adding an indoor RCA amplifier to test if it needed a signal boost—while this helped the jitter sporadically comes back. After some searching, I see there's a LTE filter.
> 
> 
> So now im wondering, do I need a LTE LPF or line amplifier (or both?) to clean up though last few stations?
> 
> Thanks for you insight and help


I live in Hoboken and sometimes when a helicopter passes I get temporary macro blocking/signal loss on weak stations.


----------



## Brian in CT

kkclstuff said:


> HI
> New member, love the forum! I recently 'cut the cord' and trying to setup my apt for OTA.
> 
> Some background:
> 1978 46fl high-rise in mid-town manhattan with rooftop antenna feeding all apts via wall outlet (75/300FM), 2020 Sony Bravia TV.
> 
> Issue:
> the signal is strong and receive most of all available channels But on occasion Ch 5.1-5.5 (fox), and 10.1(WLNY) either 'go dark' or exhibit jitter (blocky reception).


With you being in midtown, I'm sure there are all sorts of signal reflections around you. What used to cause ghosts in the analog era now cause pixilation and occasional dropouts with ATSC 1.0. I'm surprised that you were only having trouble with WNYW (Fox). If the building's antenna at over 460 feet AGL is higher than anything around it, then you have a great situation compared to many others in Manhattan.

As marlowja already told you, WLNY (RF 29) should be out of range for you. Your antenna height is helping you get a sniff of that signal.


----------



## Useeme1234

Brian in CT said:


> With you being in midtown, I'm sure there are all sorts of signal reflections around you. What used to cause ghosts in the analog era now cause pixilation and occasional dropouts with ATSC 1.0. I'm surprised that you were only having trouble with WNYW (Fox). If the building's antenna at over 460 feet AGL is higher than anything around it, then you have a great situation compared to many others in Manhattan.
> 
> As marlowja already told you, WLNY (RF 29) should be out of range for you. Your antenna height is helping you get a sniff of that signal.


Not really, wlny can be gotten in west orange, nj.


----------



## ansky212

Useeme1234 said:


> Not really, wlny can be gotten in west orange, nj.


Yes the elevation of West Orange makes that possible. My house is around 500' elevation and faces East. I used to be able to pick up WLNY almost every day with an outdoor antenna. But ever since they changed their channel assignment last summer I very rarely receive them anymore.


----------



## KyL416

Most of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island and the rest of Northern NJ are going to lose any chance of getting WLNY when W31EF-D (soon to be W29FL-D) and WPXU-LD move to RF 29, while western NJ already has no chance because of WNJB's Hacketstown repeater:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...25076ff36b48bd81016b5775e1fe0fb4&cir=&circen=


----------



## Useeme1234

True, I use AD91xg, I reliably get Wlny from 60 miles away. antenna makes difference..


----------



## Useeme1234

Is this part of changeover? soon, like this year..


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Most of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island and the rest of Northern NJ are going to lose any chance of getting WLNY when W31EF-D (soon to be W29FL-D) and WPXU-LD move to RF 29, while western NJ already has no chance because of WNJB's Hacketstown repeater:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...25076ff36b48bd81016b5775e1fe0fb4&cir=&circen=


We have been hearing about that move since last summer. Who knows if/when it will ever happen...


----------



## KyL416

LPTV stations aren't part of any phase, it's just based on whenever they can finish the work, most of them have construction permits that expire in 2022. Many of them waited until they approved 399 reimbursements for LPTV stations before starting construction, while others like WKOB-LD can't move until their new RF number becomes available after Phase 10. Plus with tower crews booked solid and backlogged, most likely won't be able to secure a tower crew until all the Full Power and Class A stations across the country that are currently operating on STAs and Aux facilities finish their final post-repack signals.

Those moves ARE happening because they have to, they can't stay on their current frequencies because of displacement issues, those displacement applications have already been granted and all the mutual issues have been settled via various spectrum sharing agreements:
W31EF-D was displaced by WTXF in Philly's move to RF 31 creating additional interference, so they have to move, they also took the opportunity to move from a tower in NJ to a tower in Manhattan (the same tower that has WKOB's signal)
WPXU-LD (Daystar), who will be sharing on W31EF-D, has to leave RF 12 once WNET is ready to move, so they will go silent until W31EF's RF 29 facility is ready, although Daystar programming will still be available via WKOB 42.2.
WKOB-LD (Azteca) is moving from RF 2 to RF 13 because WDPN in Philly's increase created additional interference, but that can't happen until WNET vacates RF 13.
W41DO-D (HSN2), which was forced off air by T-Mobile, will be spectrum sharing on WKOB's signal
WASA-LD (Estrella), which was forced off air when T-Mobile convinced WWOR to move to RF 25 earlier than originally planned, will also be spectrum sharing on WKOB's signal.


----------



## Useeme1234

Is wedw tv49 staying on their allotted frequency at this moment is 21? Is getting difficult to know
who is which rf frequency.


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> Is wedw tv49 staying on their allotted frequency at this moment is 21? Is getting difficult to know
> who is which rf frequency.


Yes, RF 21.


----------



## KyL416

Useeme1234 said:


> Is wedw tv49 staying on their allotted frequency at this moment is 21? Is getting difficult to know
> who is which rf frequency.


Go to RabbitEars.info and you can see all the current RF frequencies and the future RF frequencies for the remaining Phase 10 and LPTV stations:
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=1

WEDW is on their final RF frequency 21. RF 49 is gone as RFs 38-51 are being eliminated as part the repack, while the frequencies used by RF 37 is reserved for astronomy.

As mentioned a few posts above, WEDW is still broadcasting from a temporary antenna at their Trumbull site while they build out their final signal, and will eventually build out the secondary DTS site at Empire whenever the FCC dismisses WJLP's bogus objections for good.


----------



## Jay Stone

General Custer said:


> Anyone else notice The WCBS translator at channel 22 is down over the past few days?



Seems to be back up now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> As mentioned a few posts above, WEDW is still broadcasting from a temporary antenna at their Trumbull site while they build out their final signal, and will eventually build out the secondary DTS site at Empire whenever the FCC dismisses WJLP's bogus objections for good.


It's been 9 months since WEDW moved to RF21. It seems odd that it is taking this long to build out the Trumbull site, unless the DTS with Empire also affects what they do at Trumbull. I was under the impression that the Trumbull site would have the same final specs whether Empire ever gets turned on or not.


----------



## KyL416

Their original post-repack CP was to broadcast from a different tower in Stamford, which is what they would have built out instead if the DTS application wasn't approved. They filed for the DTS back in 2017, but thanks to WJLP's multiple bogus objections, the DTS didn't get approved until a month before the Phase 4 deadline, and by that time the tower crews were booked solid.
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076ff36f1eed17016f1f14e51000ba
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f916f59307e016f5db116162729


----------



## marlowja

Looks like WNBC is launching LX on 4.3 (test video is up) - surprised they can cram that in on top of the WNJU channel sharing....


----------



## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> It's been 9 months since WEDW moved to RF21. It seems odd that it is taking this long to build out the Trumbull site, unless the DTS with Empire also affects what they do at Trumbull. I was under the impression that the Trumbull site would have the same final specs whether Empire ever gets turned on or not.


The current interim antenna at Trumbull is directional (with a pattern very much like the previous RF49 antenna), while the antenna at Trumbull that is part of the DTS is non-directional. At FCCdata.org web page for WEDW, compare EXT 0000095256 (for the interim antenna) to site 1 of MOD 0000036047 (for the DTS).


----------



## SnellKrell

marlowja said:


> Looks like WNBC is launching LX on 4.3 (test video is up) - surprised they can cram that in on top of the WNJU channel sharing....


The station couldn't care less about the quality, or lack of same, of its signal.

NBC will find a way to monetize LX being "crammed" in. The bottom line rules!

Don't forget that NBC sold (which it didn't "own") WNBC's frequency for $214,023,017!

Only in America can a corporation be sanctioned by Congress to reap the financial benefits
in selling an entity it never owned.

There ought to be a law.

Absolutely outrageous!


----------



## marlowja

SnellKrell said:


> The station couldn't care less about the quality, or lack of same, of its signal.
> 
> NBC will find a way to monetize LX being "crammed" in. The bottom line rules!
> 
> Don't forget that NBC sold (which it didn't "own") WNBC's frequency for $214,023,017!
> 
> Only in America can a corporation be sanctioned by Congress to reap the financial benefits
> in selling an entity it never owned.
> 
> There ought to be a law.
> 
> Absolutely outrageous!


I'm looking forward to ATSC 3.0 - I assume 4.1 and 47.1 will move to 1080p, and the subchannels could probably be 720p without too much impact on the main channels.


----------



## DrDon

marlowja said:


> I'm looking forward to ATSC 3.0 - I assume 4.1 and 47.1 will move to 1080p, and the subchannels could probably be 720p without too much impact on the main channels.


Gotta remember, the FCC requires 1.0 simulcasts for five years. WNBC/WNJU has too big of a payload for 1.0 sharing. PQ would go to hell. Advertisers and viewers would balk.


----------



## Useeme1234

SnellKrell said:


> The station couldn't care less about the quality, or lack of same, of its signal.
> 
> NBC will find a way to monetize LX being "crammed" in. The bottom line rules!
> 
> Don't forget that NBC sold (which it didn't "own") WNBC's frequency for $214,023,017!
> 
> Only in America can a corporation be sanctioned by Congress to reap the financial benefits
> in selling an entity it never owned.
> 
> There ought to be a law.
> 
> Absolutely outrageous!


Is been that way since boston tea party, this country been bought and sold countless times, who do you think rules in this country, not the meek


----------



## Brian in CT

You guys should remember, the FCC and congress forced this repack onto broadcasters. The telecoms wanted more spectrum, so they (mostly T-Mobile) were asked to buyout enough TV stations to enable the FCC to eventually give them everything from channels 38-51. Now we will have TV stations stuffed in like sardines between channels 2-36. That's your government at work.


----------



## DrDon

Let's avoid political discussions, please. Stick to technical.


----------



## NYC

I noticed that I am now able to tune in WNET 13 again, even with a set top rabbit ears antenna. I hope that whatever work was being done is finally complete. I also wonder why the .1 channel seems to have occasional interference (pixelization and drop outs) while 13.2 seems to be fine.

Also I was able to add 4.3 on one set, but not on two others even after a rescan with excellent reception of WNBC on both. Any idea why? I do see their description states that programming will begin mid May. 

Is there any word if WJLP 33 and WMBC 63 will improve their signals? Those are the only local full power stations I am unable to receive with set top rabbit ears.

Thanks for any info!


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> I noticed that I am now able to tune in WNET 13 again, even with a set top rabbit ears antenna. I hope that whatever work was being done is finally complete. I also wonder why the .1 channel seems to have occasional interference (pixelization and drop outs) while 13.2 seems to be fine.
> 
> Also I was able to add 4.3 on one set, but not on two others even after a rescan with excellent reception of WNBC on both. Any idea why? I do see their description states that programming will begin mid May.
> 
> Is there any word if WJLP 33 and WMBC 63 will improve their signals? Those are the only local full power stations I am unable to receive with set top rabbit ears.
> 
> Thanks for any info!


WNET has always been hit or miss for me. Their work is not yet complete because they still need to move to RF12 in July, so you'll need to rescan again after that.

WJLP has been great for me ever since they turned up their power last year. No more pixelation. WMBC is supposed to eventually move to 1 WTC, but that application has been pending for 3 years so who knows if they will ever actually make the move.


----------



## LenL

NYC said:


> I noticed that I am now able to tune in WNET 13 again, even with a set top rabbit ears antenna. I hope that whatever work was being done is finally complete. I also wonder why the .1 channel seems to have occasional interference (pixelization and drop outs) while 13.2 seems to be fine.
> 
> Also I was able to add 4.3 on one set, but not on two others even after a rescan with excellent reception of WNBC on both. Any idea why? I do see their description states that programming will begin mid May.
> 
> Is there any word if WJLP 33 and WMBC 63 will improve their signals? Those are the only local full power stations I am unable to receive with set top rabbit ears.
> 
> Thanks for any info!



We could give you a lot more help if you provide us with your location. You will note that a number of us provide that in our info on the side bar.


----------



## General Custer

Jay Stone said:


> Seems to be back up now
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like its back down again. What's going on with this? Summer is when we need this translator.


----------



## ansky212

Discussion of the WCBS translator is probably better suited for the Long Island OTA forum: 

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/330451-long-island-ny-ota-20.html


----------



## General Custer

ansky212 said:


> Discussion of the WCBS translator is probably better suited for the Long Island OTA forum:
> 
> https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/330451-long-island-ny-ota-20.html


Its always been discussed here in the past.


----------



## jrampoldi

WNBC LX on 4.3 is live now


----------



## McShadyPL

Off-topic from above conversation, but any chance that WLNY (55.x) will reach Manhattan better at any point in the future? I'd love to be able to get ThisTV again, and Comet has some nice programming that I'd really enjoy.


----------



## KyL416

Nope, it's licensed to Riverhead, so it couldn't move to Manhattan like WLIW (which is licensed to Garden City) did. Also in the near future RF 29 will be taken by WPXU-LD and W31EF-D in Manhattan.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Nope, it's licensed to Riverhead, so it couldn't move to Manhattan like WLIW (which is licensed to Garden City) did. Also in the near future RF 29 will be taken by WPXU-LD and W31EF-D in Manhattan.


I never understood why WCBS doesn't carry WLNY on one of it's subchannels.


----------



## MadMan400096

ansky212 said:


> I never understood why WCBS doesn't carry WLNY on one of it's subchannels.


Probably for the sake of bandwidth preservation. The CBS stations used to be well known for trying to keep as much bandwidth as possible for the main signal. Before Decades came along, none of their stations even had additional subchannels (except for a couple of alternate news feeds, though I may be misremembering, and even then it was only in a few markets).


----------



## mets18

MadMan400096 said:


> Probably for the sake of bandwidth preservation. The CBS stations used to be well known for trying to keep as much bandwidth as possible for the main signal. Before Decades came along, none of their stations even had additional subchannels (except for a couple of alternate news feeds, though I may be misremembering, and even then it was only in a few markets).


I was surprised that CBS didn't sell WLNY in the auctions. I guess the bid would have not been nearly as much as something closer to NYC.


----------



## MadMan400096

mets18 said:


> I was surprised that CBS didn't sell WLNY in the auctions. I guess the bid would have not been nearly as much as something closer to NYC.


I read that CBS did try to sell a few stations in the auction, but in the end, they were only able to sell a translator of WCCO. CBS kinda struck out in that regard. Even NBC sold some more spectrum (including, of all things, that of WNBC).


----------



## SnellKrell

mets18 said:


> I was surprised that CBS didn't sell WLNY in the auctions. I guess the bid would have not been nearly as much as something closer to NYC.


Not to worry. CBS extracted its pound of flesh when, before Phase 4, it left Channel 55,
part of T-Mobile's $8 Billion spectrum buying spree!


----------



## Brian in CT

MadMan400096 said:


> I read that CBS did try to sell a few stations in the auction, but in the end, they were only able to sell a translator of WCCO. CBS kinda struck out in that regard. Even NBC sold some more spectrum (including, of all things, that of WNBC).


NBC sold a lot of spectrum. In most TV markets with both an NBC o&o and Telemundo station, they were able to sell one frequency in the auction and put both networks on the remaining frequency. Besides New York City, examples include the Hartford, Philadelphia, and Washington DC. markets.


----------



## Trip in VA

Brian in CT said:


> NBC sold a lot of spectrum. In most TV markets with both an NBC o&o and Telemundo station, they were able to sell one frequency in the auction and put both networks on the remaining frequency. Besides New York City, examples include the Hartford, Philadelphia, and Washington DC. markets.


NBC sold in New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Hartford and Washington were not owned by NBC at the time of the auction.

- Trip


----------



## Jay Stone

So when I had an antenna up at my previous house, before the repack, when distant stations would come in due to tropo, it was cool because you got other stations in addition to your normal ones. But now post repack, with the channels all sharing a much smaller range, even though last night I was pulling in a station in Philly, it seems tropo also causes some of my normal stations to be lost. Anyone else experience this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LenL

How about telling us all about your current location, what antenna you are using and where it is located? That would be very helpful!


----------



## KyL416

There was some decent boost activity late last night and early this morning. Depending on where you are it might be enough to wipe out local signals, especially ones that are co-channel like WPIX/WBRE, WNET/WYOU, WPXN/WTIC/WSWB/WPPX and WCBS/WFSB. That has nothing to do with the repack though, they've all been co-channel since 2009.

As for not getting Philly during boost conditions like you did pre-repack, that's likely because many of their stations are currently at reduced power because of various issues you can find out about in the Philly thread. KYW, WPSG, WPPX and WTXF are all currently at reduced power, so it would take some extreme boost conditions to pick them up that far right now.


----------



## Brian in CT

Trip in VA said:


> NBC sold in New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Hartford and Washington were not owned by NBC at the time of the auction.
> 
> - Trip


Ack! I forgot that the incentive auction ended back in April 2017. It took almost a year and a half before the repacking actually started, so that's where I goofed up. NBCUniversal swooped in to buy the Hartford and Washington Telemundo stations (and others) shortly after the auction closed.


----------



## MadMan400096

Brian in CT said:


> Ack! I forgot that the incentive auction ended back in April 2017. It took almost a year and a half before the repacking actually started, so that's where I goofed up. NBCUniversal swooped in to buy the Hartford and Washington Telemundo stations (and others) shortly after the auction closed.


Those stations used to be part of ZGS Communications. NBC bought them in a deal right after the auction. I know because the Hartford station has a satellite in the Springfield market where I live.


----------



## Brian in CT

MadMan400096 said:


> Those stations used to be part of ZGS Communications. NBC bought them in a deal right after the auction. I know because the Hartford station has a satellite in the Springfield market where I live.


Yes, I think I only received the Hartford ZGS owned station no more than a handful of times. IIRC, ZGS owned a boatload of LPTV stations going back to the 1990s. I guess the repack was a good time to sell them.


----------



## MadMan400096

Brian in CT said:


> Yes, I think I only received the Hartford ZGS owned station no more than a handful of times. IIRC, ZGS owned a boatload of LPTV stations going back to the 1990s. I guess the repack was a good time to sell them.


On top of that, most if not all of their stations were Telemundo affiliates IIRC. They'd even sold a few stations directly to NBCU beforehand. Really, selling the whole lot to the network directly was the most logical choice.


----------



## KEVINL71

Today, I believe Hartford Telemundo is a subchannel of WVIT-TV (NBC) channel 30. I think it mapped as "19-1" when I last checked. Prior to that, the area Telemundo station was low power channel 50 and W13BF channel 13 well before that.


----------



## KyL416

KEVINL71 said:


> Today, I believe Hartford Telemundo is a subchannel of WVIT-TV (NBC) channel 30. I think it mapped as "19-1" when I last checked.


Even though it's spectrum sharing on WVIT's signal, it's still the seperately licensed WRDM-CD. They had to change their major number to 19 because keeping virtual 50 on WVIT's signal would have overlapped with WVVH-CD in the Hamptons:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f9161427e7801615168702503c3

WVVH-CD has since moved to virtual 18 post-repack since it was cleared after WUVN gave up their full power signal in the auction in favor of spectrum sharing with their UniMas sister station WUTH-CD, which doesn't reach portions of the twin forks like WUVN's signal did.


----------



## KEVINL71

Ah! Didn't know about Long Island! 

What about WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven? I know they're with WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8, likely on 8-2 or 8-3 but show as "59-1".


----------



## KyL416

59-x is still the seperately licensed WCTX, just how 4-x is still the seperately licensed WNBC even though it's sharing with WNJU, 41-x is still the seperately licensed WXTV even though it's sharing with WFUT, 43-x is still the seperately licensed WZME even though it's sharing with WEDW, 48-x is still the seperately licensed WRNN even though it's sharing with WWOR, 50-x is still the sperately licensed WNJN even though it's sharing with WNJB, and 54-x is still the seperately licensed WTBY even though it's sharing with WDVB-CD.

Unlike Telemundo Hartford, which was a LP signal joining a full power singal, WCTX was already a full power signal and also reached much of Central and Eastern LI. So they didn't have to change virtual numbers because there's no other 59-x's in the vicinity.

In NYC several LD/CD stations also had to change virtual numbers when they started spectrum sharing with full power signals:
After it started sharing with WNET, WNDT-CD moved from virtual 17 to virtual 14 because of WPHL in Philly and some other LP signals around the NYC DMA
After it started sharing with WJLP, WNWT-LD moved from virtual 51, was assigned virtual 18, attempted to move to virtual 6 instead (despite it conflicting with WPVI), and then settled on virtual 37 because of WTVE in Reading.


----------



## speedlaw

DrDon said:


> Gotta remember, the FCC requires 1.0 simulcasts for five years. WNBC/WNJU has too big of a payload for 1.0 sharing. PQ would go to hell. Advertisers and viewers would balk.



I so miss a full unshared ATSC signal...when the marketers and suits realized they had room for other channels, it destroyed the USP of ATSC, and now one main channel and two-three channels of waste.


----------



## SnellKrell

speedlaw said:


> I so miss a full unshared ATSC signal...when the marketers and suits realized they had room for other channels, it destroyed the USP of ATSC, and now one main channel and two-three channels of waste.


Don't blame the marketers and suits for the addition of subchannels.

I was told by an executive at WCBS that it was forced to add a subchannel by the 
government - "Use It or Lose it!"

WCBS engineers were so proud of the station's picture quality - NFL games looked spectacular!

Then the station succumbed.


----------



## DrDon

SnellKrell said:


> I was told by an executive at WCBS that it was forced to add a subchannel by the government - "Use It or Lose it!"


Lose what to whom? I don't recall the FCC ever mandating subchannel adoption.

I was with CBS Detroit at the time. Corporate wanted to keep subchannels off of O&Os in the beginning, but as subchannels were added by competing stations, our stations found themselves at a competitive disadvantage. First, the other stations in town were getting additional revenue from leasing the subchannels to the diginets. Second, those same stations were giving away the local avails on those diginets as value-added spots to clients. Sort of a "buy this schedule on our main channel and we'll throw in a hundred free spots on the diginet." That's hard to beat on the street if you're selling advertising. Every other station is offering freebies you cannot. Every other station is getting 1-3 revenue streams you aren't. Can't charge more for picture quality as PQ has never driven ratings. Advertisers are only interested in eyeballs and free stuff. CBS O&O's really had no choice. 

The good news is some have resisted. KCBS, for example, just has one subchannel, leaving the main looking really good on a slightly older encoder. Other affiliates have upgraded to more recent encoders which look much, much better. WFLA (NBC) in Tampa has 2HD and 3SD. The encoder is set to give WFLA main more bandwidth on the weekends when there's sports. SNF looks better on WFLA now than it did when it was 1HD and 2SD on the old encoder. 

Doc


----------



## speedlaw

DrDon said:


> Lose what to whom? I don't recall the FCC ever mandating subchannel adoption.
> 
> I was with CBS Detroit at the time. Corporate wanted to keep subchannels off of O&Os in the beginning, but as subchannels were added by competing stations, our stations found themselves at a competitive disadvantage. First, the other stations in town were getting additional revenue from leasing the subchannels to the diginets. Second, those same stations were giving away the local avails on those diginets as value-added spots to clients. Sort of a "buy this schedule on our main channel and we'll throw in a hundred free spots on the diginet." That's hard to beat on the street if you're selling advertising. Every other station is offering freebies you cannot. Every other station is getting 1-3 revenue streams you aren't. Can't charge more for picture quality as PQ has never driven ratings. Advertisers are only interested in eyeballs and free stuff. CBS O&O's really had no choice.
> 
> The good news is some have resisted. KCBS, for example, just has one subchannel, leaving the main looking really good on a slightly older encoder. Other affiliates have upgraded to more recent encoders which look much, much better. WFLA (NBC) in Tampa has 2HD and 3SD. The encoder is set to give WFLA main more bandwidth on the weekends when there's sports. SNF looks better on WFLA now than it did when it was 1HD and 2SD on the old encoder.
> 
> Doc


Unfortunately everyone in the NY DMA has multiple sub channels....at least two, some have up to six or more. May be moot though, my streaming signals look pretty good, on a 5e connection to the router....


----------



## logger-a

KEVINL71 said:


> What about WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven? I know they're with WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8, likely on 8-2 or 8-3 but show as "59-1".



WCTX is a channel sharing guest of WTNH. The signal broadcast by WTNH in RF 10 contains four physical TV subchannels: 10.3, 10.4, 10.5. 10.6. The first two are the subchannels of WTNH and are virtual channel numbers 8-1 and 8-2. The second two are the subchannels of WCTX and are virtual channel numbers 59-1 and 59-2.

See https://rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wtnh#station .

Before WCTX became a channel sharing guest of WTNH, 8-3 was the virtual channel number of the SD video version of the primary programming of WTNH.


----------



## Brian in CT

DrDon said:


> Lose what to whom? I don't recall the FCC ever mandating subchannel adoption.


In 2011, FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski made news by comparing the CBS o&o's not having subchannels to transmitting "empty boxcars" of information. So even though the FCC didn't officially mandate subchannel adoption, when the FCC Chairman says you're underutilizing your bandwidth, you tend to listen. This was also at the time when Genachowski was contemplating the need for a second repack. That is what SnellKrell was alluding to.


----------



## DrDon

Brian in CT said:


> In 2011, FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski made news by comparing the CBS o&o's not having subchannels to transmitting "empty boxcars" of information. So even though the FCC didn't officially mandate subchannel adoption, when the FCC Chairman says you're underutilizing your bandwidth, you tend to listen. This was also at the time when Genachowski was contemplating the need for a second repack. That is what SnellKrell was alluding to.


That's a far cry from "government mandated." I'd LOVE to see the FCC try to yank licenses from CBS O&Os for not having subchannels. That'd have been fun. I do know that O&Os weren't ordered to add subs. It was up to each station's GM. WCBS opted for the free money. Simple as that.


----------



## Jason Zarin

speedlaw said:


> Unfortunately everyone in the NY DMA has multiple sub channels....at least two, some have up to six or more. May be moot though, my streaming signals look pretty good, on a 5e connection to the router....


I was shocked when I first moved here as to how compressed and awful the picture quality is compared to where I moved from. WABC looks like upscaled DVDs. 

On the other hand, my mythtv recordings are half the size now, so more free drive space....


----------



## RMinNJ

*House in the woods*

With the leaves out I was thinking of trying my "antenna project" again. Im 34 miles nw of NYC but lots of trees..think tvfool said I was 2 edge.

Here is my rabbitears report: (doh need to get my post count up..will add once I do that).



House is in the woods surrounds by trees. Last year I did try an ANT 751 and if I placed it 4 feet up in one spot in the driveway it was able to pull in NY CBS,ABC,NBC,FOX, PIX and PBS with FOX and PBS being very marginal. Clearly I need a bigger antenna.

Would folks here recommend something like the Winegard HD7694P or should I just go as big as possible
ie... HD 7698P or HD8200. With no lo-VHF stations I did not think I needed massive width but I do need more gain. Location I thought would be gable mount about 30 feet up and point SW 130 ish degrees toward NYC.

Thanks for any input. I do not know anyone in the area who has OTA reception anymore.


----------



## KyL416

You can give us the RabbitEars study_id number from the URL and we can find it.

Depending on when you tried last year, many of the NYC stations were still at reduced power while the post-repack work was being completed at 1WTC.

As for VHF-lo, it really depends what you want. WJLP is on RF 3 and is the only source in your area for MeTV, CourtTV Mystery, Grit, NewsNet and a local weather channel, so if you want any of those you'll need a VHF-lo capable antenna. You should also be able to get the low power W22EW-D after it returns to air on RF 5 from a tower in Grove Park, but it's unknown what they will carry. The other NYC area VHF-lo stations are low power signals that don't reach out that far.


----------



## RMinNJ

KyL416 said:


> You can give us the RabbitEars study_id number from the URL and we can find it.
> 
> Depending on when you tried last year, many of the NYC stations were still at reduced power while the post-repack work was being completed at 1WTC.
> 
> As for VHF-lo, it really depends what you want. WJLP is on RF 3 and is the only source in your area for MeTV, CourtTV Mystery, Grit, NewsNet and a local weather channel, so if you want any of those you'll need a VHF-lo capable antenna. You should also be able to get the low power W22EW-D after it returns to air on RF 5 from a tower in Grove Park, but it's unknown what they will carry. The other NYC area VHF-lo stations are low power signals that don't reach out that far.


Thanks so much ...was not originally interested in any lo VHF channels.. interesting..

Rabbit ears study_id=94866


----------



## LenL

RMinNJ said:


> With the leaves out I was thinking of trying my "antenna project" again. Im 34 miles nw of NYC but lots of trees..think tvfool said I was 2 edge.
> 
> Here is my rabbitears report: (doh need to get my post count up..will add once I do that).
> 
> 
> 
> House is in the woods surrounds by trees. Last year I did try an ANT 751 and if I placed it 4 feet up in one spot in the driveway it was able to pull in NY CBS,ABC,NBC,FOX, PIX and PBS with FOX and PBS being very marginal. Clearly I need a bigger antenna.
> 
> Would folks here recommend something like the Winegard HD7694P or should I just go as big as possible
> ie... HD 7698P or HD8200. With no lo-VHF stations I did not think I needed massive width but I do need more gain. Location I thought would be gable mount about 30 feet up and point SW 130 ish degrees toward NYC.
> 
> Thanks for any input. I do not know anyone in the area who has OTA reception anymore.



Here are some important things to consider. Are you in a valley? Are you on the wrong side of a hill? Are you on top of a hill with clear line of site to the broadcast towers or are there hills in the way? Your answer to these makes a big difference.



As for trees: are the tops of the trees with the leaves going to be right in front of your antenna or are the tops with the leaves well above your antenna? Makes a big difference!


----------



## RMinNJ

LenL said:


> Here are some important things to consider. Are you in a valley? Are you on the wrong side of a hill? Are you on top of a hill with clear line of site to the broadcast towers or are there hills in the way? Your answer to these makes a big difference.
> 
> As for trees: are the tops of the trees with the leaves going to be right in front of your antenna or are the tops with the leaves well above your antenna? Makes a big difference!


LenL, all,

Thanks.. I am not in a valley.. Elevation is 2227 feet according to elevation finder ..my last TVfool report put me at 2 edge though. Trees are everywhere around me and an antenna cannot get above them. LOS..hah..only if I climb the tallest tree in my yard but it is so far from the house.


----------



## LenL

https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps


This is a much better source than TVFOOL.


----------



## LenL

A few years from now ATSC 3.0 will bring much improved reception to over the air broadcast and your antenna will pick up much more!


----------



## Trip in VA

RMinNJ said:


> Thanks so much ...was not originally interested in any lo VHF channels.. interesting..
> 
> Rabbit ears study_id=94866


Here's your link: https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=94866



LenL said:


> https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps
> 
> This is a much better source than TVFOOL.


It's better than TVFool, but quite honestly, you'll get a more accurate answer from the RabbitEars Signal Search Map in many cases.

- Trip


----------



## DrDon

RMinNJ said:


> need to get my post count up..will add once I do that).


Or, perhaps read the sticky post that says "read before posting." There's a reason we put those up there: to save you time. Might go back and have a look at it.


----------



## RMinNJ

Trip in VA said:


> /url]
> 
> 
> 
> It's better than TVFool, but quite honestly, you'll get a more accurate answer from the RabbitEars Signal Search Map in many cases.
> 
> - Trip


LenL, Trip,

Thanks! My FCC report shows 2 moderate stations and the rest I desire are weak. I was able to get all my desired stations with my testing with an RCA ANT751 last year but learned 2 things;

a.) I definitely need a larger antenna than that... FOX (uhf 27?) and PBS (vhf 13) were the weakest and hardest to get.

b.) Placement is unknown,.. I think I may have been getting better reception near the ground (ground reflection? under the trees?) ...it was hard to tell. Wish I have tried it higher on the roof.


----------



## ansky212

RMinNJ said:


> LenL, Trip,
> 
> Thanks! My FCC report shows 2 moderate stations and the rest I desire are weak. I was able to get all my desired stations with my testing with an RCA ANT751 last year but learned 2 things;
> 
> a.) I definitely need a larger antenna than that... FOX (uhf 27?) and PBS (vhf 13) were the weakest and hardest to get.
> 
> b.) Placement is unknown,.. I think I may have been getting better reception near the ground (ground reflection? under the trees?) ...it was hard to tell. Wish I have tried it higher on the roof.


You mentioned being "2 Edge". As a general rule you are going to have a very difficult time with reliable OTA reception. Your antenna will need to be very large, very high up, and you will likely need an amplifier.


----------



## LenL

Keep in mind that when you go to any of these sites you are getting estimates that are not 100% reliable.


From my experience I have found that stations that were supposed to be not so well received I get strong signals and others that were supposed to be good are not!


So just because it may say 2 edge do not assume it is correct! Do not assume any of the results are completely accurate. Use the results only as a guide.



The best thing to do is find the right antenna for your location and if needed add a pre amp or a distro amp. Mount it in a good location and while high is good you are already very high up. So you may need to find a sweet spot.


I have relatives in Warwick and Florida NY who get NY broadcasts. So from where you are you should be successful with the right equipment!


----------



## RMinNJ

LenL said:


> Keep in mind that when you go to any of these sites you are getting estimates that are not 100% reliable.
> 
> 
> From my experience I have found that stations that were supposed to be not so well received I get strong signals and others that were supposed to be good are not!
> 
> 
> So just because it may say 2 edge do not assume it is correct! Do not assume any of the results are completely accurate. Use the results only as a guide.
> 
> 
> 
> The best thing to do is find the right antenna for your location and if needed add a pre amp or a distro amp. Mount it in a good location and while high is good you are already very high up. So you may need to find a sweet spot.
> 
> 
> I have relatives in Warwick and Florida NY who get NY broadcasts. So from where you are you should be successful with the right equipment!


LenL, thanks so much. Yes, I am trying to get the NY metro stations and I live 34 miles from the transmitters. One
would think Im in their broadcast area but Im finding I need to do a lot of research and spend some money where I live.
Much easier I suppose to just pay for locast or a better streaming service that carries the locals. 

What kind of antenna are they using in Warwick if I may ask? That is the other side of my town.


----------



## LenL

RMinNJ said:


> LenL, all,
> 
> Thanks.. I am not in a valley.. Elevation is 2227 feet according to elevation finder ..my last TVfool report put me at 2 edge though. Trees are everywhere around me and an antenna cannot get above them. LOS..hah..only if I climb the tallest tree in my yard but it is so far from the house.





By the way just to point out how erroneous data can be.....High Point State Park at 1803 feet is the highest elevation in NJ. So if you are at 2227 feet you can't be in NJ! You have to be in another state.


----------



## LenL

I can't answer your Warwick question. I have seen large YAGI style antennas mounted.


----------



## RMinNJ

LOL.. my house is at 876 ft elevation per freemaptools . Not sure where I the erroneous 2200 ft from..i knew that sounds
way too high.
Per that site if I click around me there is a mountain at 1000 ft to the south east toward NYC transmitters.. So I'm a valley dweller as well as a tree dweller. A challenge for sure...but I did see signals in my experimenting last year.


----------



## LenL

It depends on how far from that 1000 ft mountain to your south east you live. If it is right in front of you then you have a big issue. If it is a mile away then you still have a chance. I am speaking from experience. When I lived in Dover my house was facing a big hill about a mile away and I was in a flat area and still got pretty decent reception with a CM 4228 antenna and a preamp. Even got WLIW.


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> Keep in mind that when you go to any of these sites you are getting estimates that are not 100% reliable.
> 
> From my experience I have found that stations that were supposed to be not so well received I get strong signals and others that were supposed to be good are not!
> 
> So just because it may say 2 edge do not assume it is correct! Do not assume any of the results are completely accurate. Use the results only as a guide.


These coverage maps seem to do their best with LOS signals. The more terrain in the signal path, the more likely the signal strength value can be off. There are people on AVS that ask "how am I receiving this station that I shouldn't be?" The answer usually involves signal reflections or diffraction that is hard to predict. TV stations the coverage maps predict you should receive, but don't, usually involve some interference issue these models can't account for.

From what I've been told, the terrain models RabbitEars coverage maps use are top notch. If it says 2-edge, it probably is. Not all 2-edge situations are the same, that's why you check the terrain path to see how bad the situation looks. Even a 1-edge path can be devastating if it ends up being a huge nearby obstruction.

I agree with you that any results should be used as a guide. Just don't expect better coverage maps anytime soon.


----------



## KyL416

WNET posted their rescan date and time, 7/2 at 9am:
https://www.thirteen.org/blog-post/over-the-air-viewers-rescan-for-thirteen-in-future/


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WNET posted their rescan date and time, 7/2 at 9am:
> https://www.thirteen.org/blog-post/over-the-air-viewers-rescan-for-thirteen-in-future/


I wonder if they have done any testing yet. I'll have to do some late night scans to see if I can pick up anything.


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> I wonder if they have done any testing yet. I'll have to do some late night scans to see if I can pick up anything.



I haven't check Trip's website so I don't know if (I hope not) they are making any other changes with this repack like reducing power etc....


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> I haven't check Trip's website so I don't know if (I hope not) they are making any other changes with this repack like reducing power etc....


There is supposed to be a slight increase in power on their new channel assignment.


----------



## KyL416

They're using the existing antenna and transmitter, so it's not something they can test randomly in the weeks leading up to it without taking WNET off air until July 2nd since part of it also involves replacing some RF 13 equipment with RF 12 equipment. Plus they would need to file a program test agreement with WHYY to temporarily interfere with RF 12 overnight.

Their latest filing says that WNET's hired crew is stuck outside of the country and might not be able to arrive in time to do the retuning because of travel shutdowns, so their backup plan is to transition to RF 12 at their 4 Times Square auxiliary facility and move back to 1WTC when the crew can travel again and replace the combiner and mask filter to complete the retuning process.


----------



## LenL

So we can probably expect reception issues as part of this move to RF 12! The move to 4 Times square will bring issues and then the move back to 1WTC will bring issues. In both cases there will be a period of reception woes if past experience is any indicator! Ugh! My most watched station at the moment!


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> So we can probably expect reception issues as part of this move to RF 12! The move to 4 Times square will bring issues and then the move back to 1WTC will bring issues. In both cases there will be a period of reception woes if past experience is any indicator! Ugh! My most watched station at the moment!


It's amazing how they wait until the last minute to get these things done.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> It's amazing how they wait until the last minute to get these things done.


I would imagine that WNET and Durst had all the necessary personnel and
components in place for the previous Phase 9, May 1st date.

The restrictions enforced by the coronavirus were hardly anticipated.


----------



## meli

Have people living in Manhattan found that they get better reception with an indoor antenna if they use an attenuator?


----------



## SBRUSKI

Please bring back some power back to WNET after the repack. PBS sellouts.

It's the only NYC broadcast I cannot receive. Without sacrificing other channels.

I'm in Smithtown, Long Island. Fox, CBS come in strong off the same tower.
Maybe, I have to become a member first ?


----------



## SnellKrell

SBRUSKI said:


> Please bring back some power back to WNET after the repack. PBS sellouts.
> 
> It's the only NYC broadcast I cannot receive. Without sacrificing other channels.
> 
> I'm in Smithtown, Long Island. Fox, CBS come in strong off the same tower.
> Maybe, I have to become a member first ?


Currently, WNET is putting out 4kW using Channel 13.

The Repack will move the station to Channel 12 at 6.5kW.

It's been speculated on this site that the 1WTC facility may not be ready on the changeover date - July 2nd.

If this is so, WNET will use its backup facility at 4TS until the 1WTC has been converted.

I've been told by a friend, who's an R.F. engineer, that the power increase to 6.5kW will probably not make 
much of a difference.

Hope it works for you!


----------



## KyL416

They are increasing their power slightly, however it will only give their contour an increase of 2.6 miles, which probably won't be enough without you getting a better VHF antenna and finding the sweet spot between 1WTC for WNET (and soon WJLP) and the Empire State Building for WABC and WPIX. Even with the increase there will still be some deadzones in the Smithtown area because of the hills:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff365ee8af80165f2bad5ee040c&site=1&map=Y
VHF and UHF signals are affected differently by terrain and other conditions, so even though they come from the same site, you might have better luck using seperate VHF and UHF antennas aimed for each band's sweet spot, and connect them to a VHF/UHF combiner. Also you might want to make sure you don't have any noise sources affecting VHF reception like Solar Panel inverters, cheap LED bulbs, or offbrand cell phone chargers.

If that's not an option for you, when WEDW finishes building out their Trumbull signal, much of Smithtown should be in range of that, and CPTV airs many of PBS's shows at the same time WNET does:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076ff3600de522016028d54eb926b4&site=1&map=Y

WNET, WLIW and NJTV also now stream live online for free, so that's another option to view their programming:
https://www.thirteen.org/live/
https://www.wliw.org/live/
https://www.njtvonline.org/live/


Also, their weaker signal compared to other NYC area stations has nothing to do with being "sellouts". It's because they're co-channel with WYOU in Scranton and need to protect the adjacent WHYY in Philly, so they couldn't take advantage of the maximization window to get a signal with the same range as WABC like WCBS and WNJU/WNBC did. This has been the case since the DTV transition in 2009 and has nothing to do with the repack. The only change so far in WNET's signal was moving back to 1WTC in July 2018, but that's something they and most of the other NYC stations have always been planning to do, even if the repack didn't happen. Right now the only TV stations left at Empire are WABC, WPIX, WFUT/WXTV and some weaker stations you won't get out in Suffolk like WDVB-CD/WTBY and WMBC's NYC signal.


----------



## SBRUSKI

SnellKrell said:


> Currently, WNET is putting out 4kW using Channel 13.
> The Repack will move the station to Channel 12 at 6.5kW.


 Thanks for the info. I can receive WNET, but too much sacrifice to other channels. Maybe the weak boost will be enough.


----------



## SBRUSKI

KyL416 said:


> VHF and UHF signals are affected differently by terrain and other conditions, so even though they come from the same site, you might have better luck using seperate VHF and UHF antennas aimed for each band's sweet spot, and connect them to a VHF/UHF combiner.


This is a backup antenna system currently. Cord cutting is the intent. But not ready. I've had mixed results with combining antenna.
Out here on the fringe, I wanted to test what I own, over buying bigger guns. 


KyL416 said:


> If that's not an option for you, when WEDW finishes building out their Trumbull signal, much of Smithtown should be in range of that, and CPTV airs many of PBS's shows at the same time WNET does:


WEDW comes in now with some pixelation. This might be a future separate UHF antenna to combine. Using a VHF/UHF combi antenna now.
WLIW is solid signal, But treated like the ugly step sister when it comes to PBS programming. 
WNET is receivable. But with other channel consequences.


KyL416 said:


> It's because they're co-channel with WYOU in Scranton and need to protect the adjacent WHYY in Philly, so they couldn't take advantage of the maximization window to get a signal with the same range as WABC like WCBS and WNJU/WNBC did. This has been the case since the DTV transition in 2009 and has nothing to do with the repack. The only change so far in WNET's signal was moving back to 1WTC in July 2018, but that's something they and most of the other NYC stations have always been planning to do, even if the repack didn't happen. Right now the only TV stations left at Empire are WABC, WPIX, WFUT/WXTV and some weaker stations you won't get out in Suffolk like WDVB-CD/WTBY and WMBC's NYC signal.


 This answers my question, Why did WNET repack? It didn't seem to have much cochannel issues.
I'm trying to balance the best signal from 3 NYC towers. Surprisingly I get different channel results from a 3 degree swing.
WNET, WNYE, WJLP, for example. WMBC can locked on, But cannot display. 

A final thought, I've read that UHF frequencies require much more power for the same range as VHF.
Maybe... The downshift in WNET to channel 12 combined with their minor ugrade power will help the signal range.


----------



## KyL416

SBRUSKI said:


> This answers my question, Why did WNET repack? It didn't seem to have much cochannel issues.


It's kind of complicated, but basically a bunch of RF 13 stations had to move to allow stations in other markets to move from UHF to VHF and preserve their coverage area, which created a cascading effect. i.e. the moves of WNET in NYC and WYOU in Scranton to RF 12, WNYA in Albany to RF 7, and WHAM in Rochester to RF 9 allowed WGBY in Springfield to move from UHF 22 to VHF 13 and WNYI in Syracuse to move from UHF 20 to VHF 13. In order for those moves to happen a bunch of other swaps had to also occur in markets like Philly, Baltimore, Buffalo, Binghamton, Burlington, Watertown, DC/Hagerstown and Sherbrooke, Quebec.


----------



## Useeme1234

Quik question I'm receiving wedw full power, has wedw moved to freedom tower?


----------



## KyL416

WEDW is not moving to 1WTC, its secondary DTS site is going to be the Empire State Building and they haven't even started building it.

You're probably just getting some signal boost because of the weather system passing through the area today.


----------



## Useeme1234

KyL416 said:


> WEDW is not moving to 1WTC, its secondary DTS site is going to be the Empire State Building and they haven't even started building it.
> 
> You're probably just getting some signal boost because of the weather system passing through the area today.


looks like very likely, noticed that wedw no longer shares channel bandwidth with wzme.. edws pq looks much better


----------



## Brian in CT

Useeme1234 said:


> looks like very likely, noticed that wedw no longer shares channel bandwidth with wzme.. edws pq looks much better


No, WEDW still shares with WZME. You might be seeing better PQ due to the dropping of a few subchannels recently.


----------



## KyL416

Did WTXX-LD's 34-x subchannels leave the share?


----------



## ansky212

What is going on with that court filing related to WEDW? Has there been any progress? This has dragged on for so long I doubt they will move forward with the DTS at this point.


----------



## Brian in CT

KyL416 said:


> Did WTXX-LD's 34-x subchannels leave the share?


No, and that's the weird aspect about this. WEDW & WZME went from three subchannels each to two, while WTXX-LD got to keep all three of theirs. They must use little bandwidth. Hopefully, WTXX will be moving soon to RF channel 29 in the Hartford area. I won't miss it.


----------



## ansky212

WNET's move to RF12 is now just a few days away. Were they able to get the necessary tower work done at WTC?


----------



## NYC

There is something new on 48.4, WRNN -- previously blank or an SD copy 48.1, it is now airing classic TV.


----------



## ansky212

NYC said:


> There is something new on 48.4, WRNN -- previously blank or an SD copy 48.1, it is now airing classic TV.


As of 11:30am I just see an infomercial for exercise equipment, although it is different than the infomercial on 48.1. What kind of classic TV were you seeing?


----------



## jrampoldi

ansky212 said:


> As of 11:30am I just see an infomercial for exercise equipment, although it is different than the infomercial on 48.1. What kind of classic TV were you seeing?


Lucille Ball show on 48-4 now


----------



## KyL416

If it's public domain shows like The Lucy Show and Beverly Hillbillies, it's likely one of those glorified infomercial networks where they randomly have public domain shows with a long form ad as the "presenting sponsor".


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> If it's public domain shows like The Lucy Show and Beverly Hillbillies, it's likely one of those glorified infomercial networks where they randomly have public domain shows with a long form ad as the "presenting sponsor".


That's my thought as well. Lucy has been on all afternoon. I checked at the top of the hour a couple times and there is no sign of any network affiliation.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> As of 11:30am I just see an infomercial for exercise equipment, although it is different than the infomercial on 48.1. What kind of classic TV were you seeing?


48.4 was running "Bonanza" episodes this morning.


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> WNET's move to RF12 is now just a few days away. Were they able to get the necessary tower work done at WTC?


Based on the NYC area live bandscans, it looks like they moved to 4 Times Square on the 22nd, which likely means they are working on converting 1WTC to RF 12:
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNET
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WNET


----------



## SnellKrell

KyL416 said:


> Based on the NYC area live bandscans, it looks like they moved to 4 Times Square on the 22nd, which likely means they are working on converting 1WTC to RF 12:
> https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/10343612/tuner1/WNET
> https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_graph/1062B171/tuner1/WNET


And, my reception of WNET is now the strongest station I receive!


----------



## foxycat

Maybe the previous question is relevant to my problem. I had an old tube TV connected to my antenna, and had great reception with a converter box. TV died a few weeks ago, and someone gave me a spare HD, a *Samsung B2230HD*. Ordered the remote, just hooked it up and I get every OTA station except my PBS on channel 13, *WNET*. It came and wents, and now it's completely gone. I can't do without that station. Error says "Weak or no signal. Check the cable/antenna."

The antenna was the preferred one for my location years ago at AntennaWeb.com. and I've always kept it on the living room window sill. It's a *Radio Shack Omnidirectional Long-Range, catalog #15-1634*, actually an outdoor antenna, but I've been using it indoors with just the coax and no support rod. Having an outdoor one isn't possible in my apartment house, and everyone else uses cable.


----------



## KyL416

Try rescanning in about 10 hours from now when they should be moving back to 1WTC after 9am.

For the past week they've been temporarily transmitting from their 4 Times Square backup site which is lower in height and doesn't reach as far.


----------



## ansky212

WNET is now on RF12. I'm getting the same relatively low signal level as when they were on RF13 from 1WTC.


----------



## MTVhike

I used to watch WNET from my Long Island home, with a mast-mounted VHF antenna and a mast-mounted preamp. The signal, however, was weak enough that the sound periodically dropped out, so my wife persuaded to get Direct TV, which works fine (although the subchannels are not supported). I'm thinking about going back to the antenna and ditch Direct TV. WNET and WLIW are the only channels we watch. Do you think these changes will make this possible?
We are now mostly in our upstate retirement home and use Charter cable, but miss the local WNET programs. (We'll stay here until the pandemic is over!)


----------



## nyctveng

MTVhike said:


> WNET and WLIW are the only channels we watch. Do you think these changes will make this possible?
> We are now mostly in our upstate retirement home and use Charter cable, but miss the local WNET programs. (We'll stay here until the pandemic is over!)


no need for cable or satellite to watch both

WNET online stream https://www.thirteen.org/live/

WLIW https://www.wliw.org/live/


----------



## SnellKrell

I'm not getting WNET (RF12) at all!

I have a feeling that WPXU-LD has not vacated that frequency and is canceling out my reception of WNET.

I had been receiving WPXU-LD with a decent signal level.

The reason that this is a possibility is that I continue to receive WLNY (RF29) as its normal signal strength.
I had anticipated losing this channel when WPXU-LD moved to 29.

UGH!


----------



## MTVhike

Thanks, nyctveng, I'll try that when I get back downstate. When I saw that these two channels were available over the internet, I thought I would try to get them here, but no, only in their primary service area. I DO get PBS here via cable (from Plattsburgh), but that station doesn't have the NYC local programs.


----------



## Trip in VA

SnellKrell said:


> I'm not getting WNET (RF12) at all!
> 
> I have a feeling that WPXU-LD has not vacated that frequency and is canceling out my reception of WNET.
> 
> I had been receiving WPXU-LD with a decent signal level.!


Is there anyone else in this boat?

- Trip


----------



## Aero 1

Trip in VA said:


> Is there anyone else in this boat?
> 
> - Trip


same boat here


----------



## foxycat

nyctveng said:


> no need for cable or satellite to watch both
> 
> WNET online stream https://www.thirteen.org/live/
> 
> WLIW https://www.wliw.org/live/
> 
> Try rescanning in about 10 hours from now when they should be moving back to 1WTC after 9am.
> 
> For the past week they've been temporarily transmitting from their 4 Times Square backup site which is lower in height and doesn't reach as far.


They're giving you the stream FREE? What's the catch?
What's RF 12? Is that with a converter box?

SAME BOAT--

It's been 13 hours. Rescanned channels.* WNET-13 isn't back*. I don't want it on my computer because I'm working on the computer while watching TV. And do they charge for the computer stream?


----------



## ansky212

Aero 1 said:


> same boat here


According to the coverage map for WPXU, your location of Totowa is in a very weak to non-existent signal area for WPXU. In fact, my location in West Orange shows a much stronger signal for WPXU and I have no problem receiving WNET. So I'm wondering if interference is really the issue here...


----------



## LenL

WNET 13.1 (rf12) is ok here after I rescaned. About the same signal strength.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> According to the coverage map for WPXU, your location of Totowa is in a very weak to non-existent signal area for WPXU. In fact, my location in West Orange shows a much stronger signal for WPXU and I have no problem receiving WNET. So I'm wondering if interference is really the issue here...


Well, it you have any ideas why I haven't been able to receive RF12 yet have been able to watch WLNY on RF29,
would appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> Well, it you have any ideas why I haven't been able to receive RF12 yet have been able to watch WLNY on RF29,
> would appreciate your thoughts.


I was talking about the guy that lives in Totowa. At your location interference would make sense.


----------



## FrankH3rd

*WNET, WHYY signal report after channel switch*



Trip in VA said:


> Is there anyone else in this boat?
> 
> - Trip


In central NJ 10 miles north of Princeto prior to switch, reception of WHYY RF12 and WNET RF13 both strong. After switch WNET RF12 strong, no signal for WHYY on RF12, using TSReader Lite.


----------



## nyctveng

foxycat said:


> They're giving you the stream FREE? What's the catch?
> What's RF 12? Is that with a converter box?
> 
> SAME BOAT--
> 
> It's been 13 hours. Rescanned channels.* WNET-13 isn't back*. I don't want it on my computer because I'm working on the computer while watching TV. And do they charge for the computer stream?


It's free stream, no catch. No one is forcing you to watch the FREE STREAM but it's a good option for those that cannot receive it.


----------



## scorpiony

SnellKrell said:


> Well, it you have any ideas why I haven't been able to receive RF12 yet have been able to watch WLNY on RF29,
> would appreciate your thoughts.



No RF12 either here on UWS. 
Oddly enough, ME TV disappeared as well. Anyone else ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Useeme1234

nyctveng said:


> It's free stream, no catch. No one is forcing you to watch the FREE STREAM but it's a good option for those that cannot receive it.


No wnet, pxu, also wnbc is gone too


----------



## SnellKrell

Useeme1234 said:


> No wnet, pxu, also wnbc is gone too


That's strange. WNBC (RF35) was not a part of any changes made today.

No problem receiving this station,


----------



## Trip in VA

WPXU-LD should now be off 12. Try for WNET again.

- Trip


----------



## SnellKrell

Trip in VA said:


> WPXU-LD should now be off 12. Try for WNET again.
> 
> - Trip


Yes, I'm now receiving WNET!!!!

WLNY on RF29 is still being received.


----------



## dturturro

I’m finally able to tune WNET!


----------



## foxycat

dturturro said:


> I’m finally able to tune WNET!


Good!
Nothing here yet in lower Westchester County.  I get WLIW which is farther away, in fact I get 4 WLIW stations, 21-1, 21-2, 21-3 and 21-4.
Maybe I could set up an old computer with a big monitor just for WNET. I watch the PBS stations most of the time.


----------



## foxycat

ansky212 said:


> According to the coverage map for WPXU, your location of Totowa is in a very weak to non-existent signal area for WPXU. In fact, my location in West Orange shows a much stronger signal for WPXU and I have no problem receiving WNET. So I'm wondering if interference is really the issue here...


Where is this map you're using?


----------



## SnellKrell

foxycat said:


> Good!
> Nothing here yet in lower Westchester County.  I get WLIW which is farther away, in fact I get 4 WLIW stations, 21-1, 21-2, 21-3 and 21-4. .
> Maybe I could set up an old computer with a big monitor just for WNET. I watch the PBS stations most of the time.


WLIW isn't farther away.

Both WLIW and WNET transmit from 1WTC.


----------



## SBRUSKI

Smithtown , NY
WNET is coming in on 12.3 - 12.6. 1080i, 480i, 480i. (rescan will correct the fake channel to 13)

Sig Strength is 38
SNR is 21.78
Very little wavering on the signal strength.
I'll check again midday and evening when I would normally get some interference from sun.
Picture is crisp and no pixelation so far.

I'm Happy.!


I also noticed something on 5.1. 
It's broadcasting in 720i.........I could swear it was a 1080i broadcast. Did it change?


----------



## ansky212

It looks like WNET's modest power increase with the move to RF12 has helped. On RF13 I was only pulling them in at about 70% signal strength. Now I get them at 100%.


----------



## Jay Stone

SBRUSKI said:


> Smithtown , NY
> WNET is coming in on 12.3 - 12.6. 1080i, 480i, 480i. (rescan will correct the fake channel to 13)
> 
> Sig Strength is 38
> SNR is 21.78
> Very little wavering on the signal strength.
> I'll check again midday and evening when I would normally get some interference from sun.
> Picture is crisp and no pixelation so far.
> 
> I'm Happy.!
> 
> 
> I also noticed something on 5.1.
> It's broadcasting in 720i.........I could swear it was a 1080i broadcast. Did it change?



I’m fairly sure Fox was always 720


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SnellKrell

Jay Stone said:


> I’m fairly sure Fox was always 720
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fox and ABC have always been digital 720p.


----------



## SBRUSKI

SnellKrell said:


> Fox and ABC have always been digital 720p.





Jay Stone said:


> I’m fairly sure Fox was always 720


Yup, It must be me slipping again. 

Thanks


----------



## SnellKrell

In the spirit of being pedantic and thorough, when I said that Fox had always been digital 720p,
that's not absolutely correct.

When other networks were adopting which digital format to use, Rupert Murdoch refused to
budge on choosing either 1080i or 720p.

He had his network and owned stations use 480p, wide screen.

Well, the NFL screamed bloody murder and demanded that Fox adopt a true High Definition
system.

At that point, Fox chose 720p.

And as they say, "That's the rest of the story."


----------



## foxycat

I rescanned again. Now both WNET-13 and WLIW-21, 4-NBC and 7-ABC are gone. I'm in Yonkers in Westchester County, 15 minutes north of NYC. Does anyone think I need a new antenna?


----------



## Brian in CT

foxycat said:


> I rescanned again. Now both WNET-13 and WLIW-21, 4-NBC and 7-ABC are gone. I'm in Yonkers in Westchester County, 15 minutes north of NYC. Does anyone think I need a new antenna?


If you're within 15 MILES of 1WTC, a typical (rabbit ears & loop) indoor antenna should be fine for reception. That is unless you're in a terrain shadow, behind a large obstruction, or your antenna is near or below ground level. I'd check out your setup (coax, connectors, etc.) before discarding an antenna that was working for you recently. It could also be some type of interference.


----------



## foxycat

Brian in CT said:


> If you're within 15 MILES of 1WTC, a typical (rabbit ears & loop) indoor antenna should be fine for reception. That is unless you're in a terrain shadow, behind a large obstruction, or your antenna is near or below ground level. I'd check out your setup (coax, connectors, etc.) before discarding an antenna that was working for you recently. It could also be some type of interference.


No rabbit ears. Mine looks like a 24"clamshelled plastic flying saucer, and was $100. Bought it years ago on the advice of antennaweb.org when the bldg management stopped servicing the master antenna on the roof. Yes, I'm within 15 miles of WTC, and on the 6th floor, but there are dozens of tall buildings between us, and my windows all face north, whereas WTC is southwest.


ETA-- OK! The copper wire in the antenna-end of the coax was bent in half, fixed it with needle-nose pliers. *Everything's back except 13-WNET and 11-WPIXDT4*, a local movie channel. I've set up an old computer with a huge monitor to catch WNET Livestream till they straighten themselves out.


----------



## foxycat

ansky212 said:


> It looks like WNET's modest power increase with the move to RF12 has helped. On RF13 I was only pulling them in at about 70% signal strength. Now I get them at 100%.


I'd like to measure my signal too. What do you use for that? Is RF the signal you get through a converter box?


----------



## MozzyMoz

Hi All. Does somebody know when WKOB is moving to rf13? BTW, after the change, WNET is coming full power to my location/devices (despite using a splitter that tends to reduce power, especially to one of my TVs).
I have finally lost WPXU rf12 after the move to rf29 (did it do it?), it came intermittently but the programming is horrendous. A waste of power.
WNYN rf 30 still showing color bars. Nothing there.
A couple of days ago (7/2), there was a nice tropo opening, and WTNH and WEDW came mostly ok. I need more heatwaves (and more PBS stations) please, hahaha!


----------



## MozzyMoz

foxycat said:


> I'd like to measure my signal too. What do you use for that? Is RF the signal you get through a converter box?


Check out this web tuner:
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/one_tuner_map/1062B171/tuner1

It gives you an idea of what you might catch.
Also, you might use the signal strength reader on your device.


----------



## foxycat

MozzyMoz said:


> Check out this web tuner:
> https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/one_tuner_map/1062B171/tuner1
> 
> It gives you an idea of what you might catch.
> Also, you might use the signal strength reader on your device.


You mean on my TV menu?

I was wondering if I'm not getting 13.1-WNET(PBS) strongly enough, because that and WPIX-11 are the only stations I'm missing. I found WNET in the list, but the entry is largely blank.


----------



## Brian in CT

foxycat said:


> No rabbit ears. Mine looks like a 24"clamshelled plastic flying saucer, and was $100. Bought it years ago on the advice of antennaweb.org when the bldg management stopped servicing the master antenna on the roof. Yes, I'm within 15 miles of WTC, and on the 6th floor, but there are dozens of tall buildings between us, and my windows all face north, whereas WTC is southwest.
> 
> ETA-- OK! The copper wire in the antenna-end of the coax was bent in half, fixed it with needle-nose pliers. *Everything's back except 13-WNET and 11-WPIXDT4*, a local movie channel. I've set up an old computer with a huge monitor to catch WNET Livestream till they straighten themselves out.


Great! I'm glad you checked all your connections before shelling out money for a new antenna. Sorry about WNET, but it's transmitting from a temporary site (4 Times Square) until crews are available to finish their new installation on channel RF 12 at 1WTC. Hope you can receive it then.

There is something you may need to know about your setup. IF you live in a concrete or cinderblock building, your VHF troubles may be caused by that. Those building materials, while letting UHF signals pass through, stymie VHF signals from doing the same. Since you have your antenna in or near a window facing in the wrong direction, there is a good chance you're only receiving VHF TV stations due to a reflection. Maybe a lucky bounce off one of those tall buildings (on your side) is doing the trick. Too bad you can't use that master on the roof anymore. I'm sure it has unimpeded LOS to all the NYC transmission sites.


----------



## SnellKrell

Brian in CT said:


> Great! I'm glad you checked all your connections before shelling out money for a new antenna. Sorry about WNET, but it's transmitting from a temporary site (4 Times Square) until crews are available to finish their new installation on channel RF 12 at 1WTC. Hope you can receive it then.
> 
> There is something you may need to know about your setup. IF you live in a concrete or cinderblock building, your VHF troubles may be caused by that. Those building materials, while letting UHF signals pass through, stymie VHF signals from doing the same. Since you have your antenna in or near a window facing in the wrong direction, there is a good chance you're only receiving VHF TV stations due to a reflection. Maybe a lucky bounce off one of those tall buildings (on your side) is doing the trick. Too bad you can't use that master on the roof anymore. I'm sure it has unimpeded LOS to all the NYC transmission sites.


It's my understanding that WNET on Channel 12 is transmitting from 1WTC, not 4TS.

The 4TS facility was used before the change to Channel 12 on July 2nd to allow work on the main facility,

What you're seeing now is the signal from the main transmitter using Channel 12.


----------



## Brian in CT

My signal on RF 12 is not as strong as it was on RF 13, so I assumed WNET was still on a temp. NEVER MIND.


----------



## foxycat

Brian in CT said:


> Great! I'm glad you checked all your connections before shelling out money for a new antenna. Sorry about WNET, but it's transmitting from a temporary site (4 Times Square) until crews are available to finish their new installation on channel RF 12 at 1WTC. Hope you can receive it then.
> 
> There is something you may need to know about your setup. IF you live in a concrete or cinderblock building, your VHF troubles may be caused by that. Those building materials, while letting UHF signals pass through, stymie VHF signals from doing the same. Since you have your antenna in or near a window facing in the wrong direction, there is a good chance you're only receiving VHF TV stations due to a reflection. Maybe a lucky bounce off one of those tall buildings (on your side) is doing the trick. Too bad you can't use that master on the roof anymore. I'm sure it has unimpeded LOS to all the NYC transmission sites.


It's a brick building. I'm getting both UHF and VHF. Problem only started when I switched from the analog TV to the D-TV last week. I can wait for WNET, as long as I can watch it on a spare computer. I don't need instant gratification.

What does "*RF* 12 mean?"

Thanks, Brian


----------



## Brian in CT

foxycat said:


> It's a brick building. I'm getting both UHF and VHF. Problem only started when I switched from the analog TV to the D-TV last week. I can wait for WNET, as long as I can watch it on a spare computer. I don't need instant gratification.
> 
> What does "*RF* 12 mean?"
> 
> Thanks, Brian


The RF channel is the frequency a TV station is ACTUALLY transmitting on. The virtual channel is for identification purposes, and is a holdover from analog. So WNET is on RF channel 12 and VC 13. TV broadcasters wanted virtual channels so they could continue the same channel number branding into the digital era. Most analog TV stations on the VHF band had the same channel number for decades. With virtual channel numbers they were able to "keep" them.

Glad you live in a brick building. VHF TV signals will penetrate that much better than concrete. You still have to beware of reflections (off those buildings you talked about) that can mess with your signal when repositioning your antenna. Since WNET is the only TV station that's giving you trouble, that probably isn't the problem you're having now.

It is also possible that the converter box you used with your old CRT (tube TV) was better than the one in your new digital TV. If your new TV doesn't have a manual tuning option, you could type in 12 on the remote to see if this forces the TV to recognize WNET. This does work on some models. I found that "auto-scan" sometimes misses weaker TV stations, so that could be why it's not coming in after scanning.

Lastly, your clamshell antenna might not do well with VHF signals. In the last ten years, companies have been selling all sorts of new fangled antennas that do well with UHF, but not well with VHF. Those "mud flap" antennas are a prime example. If your UHF stations come in like gangbusters (high signal strength) while the VHF are relatively much weaker, then this could be the reason, too. Hope you end up figuring it out.


----------



## foxycat

Brian in CT said:


> The RF channel is the frequency a TV station is ACTUALLY transmitting on. The virtual channel is for identification purposes, and is a holdover from analog. So WNET is on RF channel 12 and VC 13. TV broadcasters wanted virtual channels so they could continue the same channel number branding into the digital era. Most analog TV stations on the VHF band had the same channel number for decades. With virtual channel numbers they were able to "keep" them.
> 
> Glad you live in a brick building. VHF TV signals will penetrate that much better than concrete. You still have to beware of reflections (off those buildings you talked about) that can mess with your signal when repositioning your antenna. Since WNET is the only TV station that's giving you trouble, that probably isn't the problem you're having now.
> 
> It is also possible that the converter box you used with your old CRT (tube TV) was better than the one in your new digital TV. If your new TV doesn't have a manual tuning option, you could type in 12 on the remote to see if this forces the TV to recognize WNET. This does work on some models. I found that "auto-scan" sometimes misses weaker TV stations, so that could be why it's not coming in after scanning.
> 
> Lastly, your clamshell antenna might not do well with VHF signals. In the last ten years, companies have been selling all sorts of new fangled antennas that do well with UHF, but not well with VHF. Those "mud flap" antennas are a prime example. If your UHF stations come in like gangbusters (high signal strength) while the VHF are relatively much weaker, then this could be the reason, too. Hope you end up figuring it out.


My antenna is more than 10 years old, dated 06A06--probably 2006. I would have to check antennaweb.com again, but I'm not ready to order a new antenna online and have to return it.

The other station that's gone is 11-WPIX, a local movie channel. 
I don't know the signal strength of any of my stations. Someone here suggested it's on my remote, but I haven't found it. I've had the remote only about a week.


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## KyL416

foxycat said:


> My antenna is more than 10 years old, dated 06A06--probably 2006. I would have to check antennaweb.com again, but I'm not ready to order a new antenna online and have to return it.


The misleading marketing of UHF antennas as "HDTV Antennas" has been going on for almost 20 years at this point, despite it being confirmed early in the transition that nearly every market would have at least one station going back to VHF after 2009.



> The other station that's gone is 11-WPIX, a local movie channel.


WPIX was not affected by the repack, they're still transmitting from the Empire State Building on RF 11 using the same power they had since 2009.

Also, what "local movie channel" are you talking about? All of WPIX's subchannels are affiliated with national networks:
11.1 The CW
11.2 Antenna TV
11.3 CourtTV
11.4 TBD



> I don't know the signal strength of any of my stations.


Most TVs should have a signal level option somewhere in the menus, try looking in the setup, information or channel/tuner section of the menu, others might have an indicator in the info banner that appears when you change channels or press the "info" button on the remote. Or you can tell us the specific model of TV or tuner you're using and one of us can lookup the manual to tell you how to find it. 

If you find the signal level/meter option, can you tell us what it says for the other VHF stations in the market, like WABC and if you get them, WJLP's subchannels on 33.x, and then compare it to the major UHF stations like WCBS, WNBC and WNYW? It would give us a better idea of how your antenna performs with VHF vs UHF.


----------



## foxycat

I'll explore the signal strength when I have a chance. Today I had to start moving from my primary computer that just died to one I've been training to take over. 

I never fell for the "HD-Antenna" scam. I read a lot online, and explored the subject during the analog>digital change.

I always thought WPIX was local. TV isn't my high point; computing is. Add to the stations I no longer get: *25-WNYEDT*, all 4 of them. Now I'm thinking of buying more coax and facing the antenna against the south wall of my living room, although it's a firewall.


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## SnellKrell

foxycat said:


> I'll explore the signal strength when I have a chance. Today I had to start moving from my primary computer that just died to one I've been training to take over.
> 
> I never fell for the "HD-Antenna" scam. I read a lot online, and explored the subject during the analog>digital change.
> 
> I always thought WPIX was local. TV isn't my high point; computing is. Add to the stations I no longer get: *25-WNYEDT*, all 4 of them. Now I'm thinking of buying more coax and facing the antenna against the south wall of my living room, although it's a firewall.


WPIX is a local station!

Yes, it does carry the WB network's programming; nevertheless, it's a local station.

Just because it was not affected by the Repack has nothing to do with it being local or not.


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## SnellKrell

It appears, since yesterday at noon, that WNET has been transmitting from 4TS, not 1WTC.


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## foxycat

@*Brian in CT* , @*SnellKrell* , @*KyL416* :

Problem solved. I checked the antenna's manual, which I hadn't read in maybe 20 years, and found the power injector, which I thought was part of the old converter box, and was ready to take out for recycling. 
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/137906/Radio-Shack-15-1634.html?page=3#manual
57 channels now available, most importantly all the PBS stations
And the old antenna is still functioning in its old age.








Also my county said they'd take the huge CRT TV if I can deliver it.
It's going to be a good day!

Thanks to everyone who helped!


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## scorpiony

SnellKrell said:


> It appears, since yesterday at noon, that WNET has been transmitting from 4TS, not 1WTC.



Yes , seems that way. I do get the strongest signal here on UWS 80s while it is transmitting from 4TS










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## Useeme1234

Looking at dxinfocenter.com today's tropo dxing forecasting is off the charts. Never seen the map go this high in nyc area.


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## Jason Zarin

SnellKrell said:


> It appears, since yesterday at noon, that WNET has been transmitting from 4TS, not 1WTC.


THANKS!

WNET's signal completely disappeared for me yesterday. That info just saved me hours of frustrating fruitless indoor antenna futzing. I'll just wait for them to resume WTC operations.


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## ansky212

How do you know WNET is broadcasting from 4TS? This indicates it's coming from WTC: https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/one_tuner_map/1062B171/tuner1


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## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> How do you know WNET is broadcasting from 4TS? This indicates it's coming from WTC: https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/one_tuner_map/1062B171/tuner1


It was the difference in Signal Strength as indicated on the Fair Lawn, NJ; Richmond Hill, Queens tuners and
my television set. All three exactly emulated the reception of WNET before the changeover to Channel 12
when the station was transmitting from 4TS.


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## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> It was the difference in Signal Strength as indicated on the Fair Lawn, NJ; Richmond Hill, Queens tuners and
> my television set. All three exactly emulated the reception of WNET before the changeover to Channel 12
> when the station was transmitting from 4TS.


Ok, so basically a conjecture. My signal strength (100%) has remained the same all week.


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## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> Ok, so basically a conjecture. My signal strength (100%) has remained the same all week.


Congratulations on your 100% signal strength, we're all not that fortunate!

I had felt that what I observed was good enough for me, sorry it wasn't for you.


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## KyL416

SnellKrell said:


> It was the difference in Signal Strength as indicated on the Fair Lawn, NJ; Richmond Hill, Queens tuners and
> my television set. All three exactly emulated the reception of WNET before the changeover to Channel 12
> when the station was transmitting from 4TS.


Even though it's in a bad area for reliable reception of WNET because of co-channel issues with WNYT, the Poughkeepsie bandscan showed a drop in raw signal strength on RF 12 at exactly the same time too:
Richmond Hill
Fair Lawn
Poughkeepsie


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## ansky212

I have noticed a significant (5 dB) drop in signal strength for WNET. Seems to have occurred sometime in the past 2 days.


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## reddice

I lost WNET completely when they moved to 4TS. Are they still on 4TS since moving to RF12?



I have to rely on WLIW which I like there PBS programs better.


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## ansky212

reddice said:


> I lost WNET completely when they moved to 4TS. Are they still on 4TS since moving to RF12?
> 
> 
> 
> I have to rely on WLIW which I like there PBS programs better.


I don't think anyone here really knows what is going on with WNET. It's all speculation. When they moved to RF12 back on 7/2 I was getting great reception up until a couple days ago, now they are back to the same weak, crappy reception that I had when they were on RF13.


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## ALP

This morning CBS ( Channel 2 ) suddenly dropped and after 30 minutes or so reappeared and then dropped again. For a while I was able to get CBS from Philadelphia on Channel 3, but then it faded away. Also Fox ( Channel 5 ) has disappeared, but it has been my weakest channel ever since the repack on 1WTC. I assume since I could get the signal from Philadelphia this is due to troposphere effects?


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## ansky212

ALP said:


> This morning CBS ( Channel 2 ) suddenly dropped and after 30 minutes or so reappeared and then dropped again. For a while I was able to get CBS from Philadelphia on Channel 3, but then it faded away. Also Fox ( Channel 5 ) has disappeared, but it has been my weakest channel ever since the repack on 1WTC. I assume since I could get the signal from Philadelphia this is due to troposphere effects?


Yes, from what I read on another forum there was a tropospheric opening in this area this morning.


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## ansky212

I noticed WRNN 48.2 has been off the air for the past couple days. Not sure if this is a technical problem or if they dropped Circle TV. The other WRNN subs are working fine.


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## EF9500

Not sure what happened last couple weeks, but cbs has constant dropouts now. Was always my most stable Chanel. What a bummer.


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## Brian in CT

EF9500 said:


> Not sure what happened last couple weeks, but cbs has constant dropouts now. Was always my most stable Chanel. What a bummer.


Where are you located? For example, if (like me) you live in Fairfield County, any mild tropo from the north or east will cause WCBS to dropout due to CCI from WFSB in Hartford. I've lost WCBS for a few hours on five or six different nights these past few weeks. Luckily, I have their repeater on Long Island to tune to.

Now that the repack is done, the whole UHF band is packed in like sardines. Local dropouts due to ripe atmospheric conditions are going to be more numerous. We're now in the thick of that season.


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## EF9500

Brian in CT said:


> Where are you located? For example, if (like me) you live in Fairfield County, any mild tropo from the north or east will cause WCBS to dropout due to CCI from WFSB in Hartford. I've lost WCBS for a few hours on five or six different nights these past few weeks. Luckily, I have their repeater on Long Island to tune to.
> 
> Now that the repack is done, the whole UHF band is packed in like sardines. Local dropouts due to ripe atmospheric conditions are going to be more numerous. We're now in the thick of that season.


Stony Brook long island. Thats probably what it is.


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## KyL416

Stony Brook should be in range of WCBS's RF 22 repeater from WLNY's tower. Depending on what type of tuner you have, you might be able to force tune to it by entering "22", "22-" or "22-1" on your remote.


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## Brian in CT

EF9500 said:


> Stony Brook long island. Thats probably what it is.


Ouch. Not only that, the Connecticut signals can get enhanced just by travelling over Long Island Sound in certain conditions, too. In fact, I might of mentioned this to you on the Long Island thread some time ago.


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## EF9500

KyL416 said:


> Stony Brook should be in range of WCBS's RF 22 repeater from WLNY's tower. Depending on what type of tuner you have, you might be able to force tune to it by entering "22", "22-" or "22-1" on your remote.


The repeater is back online??


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## Jay Stone

EF9500 said:


> The repeater is back online??



It has been for weeks now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LenL

Channel Master is selling a Professional-_Grade_ Antenna Port Terminator Model #:CM-7100 for $19. Anyone have any thoughts if this is a waste of money or something that is good to have? Just received an email with the offer. I am using a distro amp with one unused port.


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## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> Channel Master is selling a Professional-_Grade_ Antenna Port Terminator Model #:CM-7100 for $19. Anyone have any thoughts if this is a waste of money or something that is good to have? Just received an email with the offer. I am using a distro amp with one unused port.


If you're using an amp, and splitting your signal three ways with a four-way splitter, it's good to "terminate" the unused port to stop any unnecessary signal "leakage." But $19! I got a pair eight years ago for $5 plus shipping from Solid Signal online. The one I used still does the job. I trust CM products, but you might want to go comparison shopping online to save some $$$.


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## LenL

Brian in CT said:


> If you're using an amp, and splitting your signal three ways with a four-way splitter, it's good to "terminate" the unused port to stop any unnecessary signal "leakage." But $19! I got a pair eight years ago for $5 plus shipping from Solid Signal online. The one I used still does the job. I trust CM products, but you might want to go comparison shopping online to save some $$$.



I have 3 terminators (75 Ohm) but since this is many times more expensive I was wondering if they found a solution for a problem that is not fixed by the terminators I bought and you bought? Seems crazy that they would try and sell this for $19 when there are much cheaper alternatives?


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## Aero 1

LenL said:


> Seems crazy that they would try and sell this for $19 when there are much cheaper alternatives?


no it doesnt because you are nibbling at the bait and thinking about getting it. There are plenty of fish that will go for the marketing bait and enjoy their $20 hook all while Channel Master laughs and enjoy their catch.


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> I have 3 terminators (75 Ohm) but since this is many times more expensive I was wondering if they found a solution for a problem that is not fixed by the terminators I bought and you bought? Seems crazy that they would try and sell this for $19 when there are much cheaper alternatives?


Even if this CM product is the Rolls-Royce of terminators, what could possibly be the difference between theirs and yours? 0.2 dB? 0.3 dB? I doubt it's anywhere near typical line loss. Are you sure that offer wasn't for a bag of ten? If it were me, I'd go with what you have now.


----------



## EF9500

KyL416 said:


> Stony Brook should be in range of WCBS's RF 22 repeater from WLNY's tower. Depending on what type of tuner you have, you might be able to force tune to it by entering "22", "22-" or "22-1" on your remote.


That worked, thanks. Didn't realize the repeater was back up.


----------



## hancox

Brian in CT said:


> Even if this CM product is the Rolls-Royce of terminators, what could possibly be the difference between theirs and yours? 0.2 dB? 0.3 dB? I doubt it's anywhere near typical line loss. Are you sure that offer wasn't for a bag of ten? If it were me, I'd go with what you have now.


They at least make a case. YMMV.









RF Port Terminator Use in Over-The-Air Antenna Installations


One of the least understood components of a high quality over-the-air antenna installation is the terminator. The terminator is used to complete the RF circuit. When a splitter or an amplifier with multiple outputs is used in an antenna installation, there is always RF energy on all the output...




www.channelmaster.com


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## Brian in CT

hancox said:


> They at least make a case. YMMV.


I see. The ones I got from Solid Signal ended up being almost identical to the ones a cable installer friend of mine gets from the franchise to use as terminators. Someone else can do a comparison test.


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## Useeme1234

Enjoyed good tropo enhancement last night, received wcct ch20, (comet tv) wvit nbc 30, telemundo on ch 19, dxing other channels was good, I have never lost cbs 2, before, last it was pixelating, wfsb was coming in on same frequency, anybody else experience the same?


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## Brian in CT

Useeme1234 said:


> Enjoyed good tropo enhancement last night, received wcct ch20, (comet tv) wvit nbc 30, telemundo on ch 19, dxing other channels was good, I have never lost cbs 2, before, last it was pixelating, wfsb was coming in on same frequency, anybody else experience the same?


Yes, same here. I lost WCBS-36 for over two hours and received WFSB-36 for part of that time. Same thing with WABC-7 and WPRI-7. In all, I lost about half of my NYC locals and ended up receiving many stations from the Providence DMA. Even locked in a few from Boston. That was some fine tropo from the north & east.

BTW, WVIT and Telemundo Hartford are sharing on RF channel 31. So you received two subchannels of the same TV signal.


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## Useeme1234

I rescanned my box during tropo opening, manage to get wliv ch56 fox affiliate from boston, I remember during analog days, I routinly receive boston, scranton, springfield, worcester, albany, providence, turn my uhf yagi, I could philly, baltimore, DC, harrisburg,pa, norfolk va. now I only get wtnh, wvit.


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## Brian in CT

Useeme1234 said:


> I rescanned my box during tropo opening, manage to get wliv ch56 fox affiliate from boston, I remember during analog days, I routinly receive boston, scranton, springfield, worcester, albany, providence, turn my uhf yagi, I could philly, baltimore, DC, harrisburg,pa, norfolk va. now I only get wtnh, wvit.


Those were the days. I received most of those markets plus Salisbury during many a good tropo event each April through October. Now, there are the same number of TV stations (excluding shares) as there were about 30 years ago, but in much less spectrum space. I have few open UHF frequencies left now the repack is done. I'm sure that goes the same for many posters here in the Boston to DC corridor.


----------



## NYC

WJLP has added the Retro network, one of the first diginets (or perhaps the first?) to focus on classic TV. Retro previously aired on WNYX and WXNY in the NY area. Programming appears to be limited to a block of several hours that may repeat. No programming info from WJLP just yet.


----------



## KyL416

RetroTV doesn't repeat/loop programming during the day outside of the overnight infomercial block.

Until WJLP notifies the listings providers that Retro is now on 33.5 and that Court TV moved to 33.6, you can find their weekly schedule here on the top right of the page where it says "3rd Quarter 2020 Schedule, National Feed - Eastern Time":
https://www.myretrotv.com/schedules
(The one on the top left of the page is their live stream schedule where they replace any shows they don't have the streaming rights to with public domain filler)


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> RetroTV doesn't repeat/loop programming during the day outside of the overnight infomercial block.
> 
> Until WJLP notifies the listings providers that Retro is now on 33.5 and that Court TV moved to 33.6, you can find their weekly schedule here on the top right of the page where it says "3rd Quarter 2020 Schedule, National Feed - Eastern Time":
> https://www.myretrotv.com/schedules
> (The one on the top left of the page is their live stream schedule where they replace any shows they don't have the streaming rights to with public domain filler)


I'm getting Court TV on 33.5 and 33.6. No sign of Retro TV.


----------



## KyL416

You probably need to do a full rescan on your TV to get it if it's one of those models that retains the previous programID mappings.


----------



## mikehende

Hey guys, we lost power for a few days and our internet. We had Verizon FIOS but switched to Spectrum but with both of those services we would have some service interruption sometimes.

So I am considering getting one of those antenna tv thingies which you can connect to the back of your tv to get the local or whatever channels, just a few basic tv programs as now we have nothing until Spectrum fixes their issue. Since this will be for very limited use, what's the cheapest reliable thing out there which I can use for temp purposes without any subscription please?


----------



## golfster

Depends on how far you are from the transmitters. If you are less than about 30 miles and not down in a valley, you can get away with one of those plastic antennas that you hang on the wall. Does your TV have a built in tuner? If not, you can pick one up on Amazon for about $30.


https://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-HOMEWORX-HW130STB-Converter-Recording/dp/B01EW098XS/ref=sr_1_3?crid=34SK72N7QHPSM&dchild=1&keywords=tv+tuner+box+with+hdmi+output&qid=1597085190&sprefix=TV+tuner%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-3








Amazon.com: Amplified HD TV Antenna, 2020 Upgraded Digital Indoor HDTV Antenna Up to 120 Mile Range, 4K HD VHF UHF Freeview Television Local Channels Detachable Signal Amplifier and 16.5ft Longer Coax Cable: Electronics


Amazon.com: Amplified HD TV Antenna, 2020 Upgraded Digital Indoor HDTV Antenna Up to 120 Mile Range, 4K HD VHF UHF Freeview Television Local Channels Detachable Signal Amplifier and 16.5ft Longer Coax Cable: Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

It depends on your location (how far away you are from the towers, elevation of the antenna) and surrounding topography. You could go to TVFool, put in your address, and see what stations are available to you, and the direction, and then try a cheapie antenna. If it works, great. If not, take it back and try a different one. Some folks can get by with just rabbit ears, others have to use a more sophisticated antenna for the reasons I gave.


----------



## blade005

A couple of websites that can help you figure out the best option based on your physical location and potential placements of antenna.









Antenna Signal Prediction


Which broadcast channels can you receive for free? It's time you cut the cord!




www.antennaweb.org







TV Fool


----------



## Otto Pylot

@mikehende 

As a followup, you can also go your local HDTV Forum and see what other folks are using in your area to get an idea of what works.


----------



## mikehende

Thanks guys, will look into everything mentioned here.

I just need any tv shows so as not to stare at the blank screen until Spectrum fixes their issue. With this Roku and Amazon Fire Stick options we have here, those depends on internet service.

I am thinking I would need a USB antenna for whatever tv system as my tv is a Samsung UN32J4000AF which has a USB port on the back?


----------



## Otto Pylot

The tv should have an Antenna/Coax input on the back and that's what you would connect an antenna to. Your tv does have an ATSC tuner in it so just read the manual on how to connect an antenna.


----------



## mikehende

Yes, it has the coax connection with a cable coming from outside.

TV Fool shows some local channels available.

I remember seeing a commercial a few times about a USB antenna you can connect which will give you a zillion free tv/movie shows anywhere but I never bothered to bookmark it.


----------



## crabboy

mikehende said:


> ...I remember seeing a commercial a few times about a USB antenna you can connect which will give you a zillion free tv/movie shows anywhere but I never bothered to bookmark it.


If all you want is something to look at and you are near enough to transmitters, any antenna from a dollar store will get you what you want. If, when attached to your coaxial input, it gets you even a few stations, your total investment will be a buck. So-called HDTV antennas are a scam. Any antenna will bring in digital signals to any recently sold TV sets.
We had a snowstorm (!) here in Henderson, Nevada many years back that put us in an identical situation to yours (our satellite system went down for 11 hours). That got me curious about OTA. It's much simpler than it appears.


----------



## mikehende

Yes I can certainly try that. I am in Queens, NY which is very populated so there should be available transmitters close by. I will visit a local 99cents store tomorrow to get one and will try it out and report back here, thanks.


----------



## John dhein

mikehende said:


> Yes I can certainly try that. I am in Queens, NY which is very populated so there should be available transmitters close by. I will visit a local 99cents store tomorrow to get one and will try it out and report back here, thanks.


In Queen? My bet is you get 20+ channels. Unless you are blocked by buildings.



https://www.antennaweb.org/results


----------



## mikehende

Yes, I am just outride JFK so there aren't any high rise buildings around.


----------



## mikehende

Just in case the 99cents stores should not carry this, I am seeing this at True Value online and can check the local store here for it, will this work please?









Passive Indoor UHF/VHF/FM/HDTV Antenna


Passive Indoor UHF/VHF/FM/HDTV Antenna, Updated Classic, Dual Purpose Design, Features Dual 36" Chrome Dipoles, VHF Dipoles Fit Supplied Base Or Directly Into Some TVs, Replaces Broken Or Lost Dipoles, Includes Matching Transformer.




www.truevalue.com


----------



## John dhein

mikehende said:


> Just in case the 99cents stores should not carry this, I am seeing this at True Value online and can check the local store here for it, will this work please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Passive Indoor UHF/VHF/FM/HDTV Antenna
> 
> 
> Passive Indoor UHF/VHF/FM/HDTV Antenna, Updated Classic, Dual Purpose Design, Features Dual 36" Chrome Dipoles, VHF Dipoles Fit Supplied Base Or Directly Into Some TVs, Replaces Broken Or Lost Dipoles, Includes Matching Transformer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.truevalue.com


I bought that. Twice. Works great.


----------



## mikehende

Thanks. Do you get stations like Grit, bounce, Cozi tv please?


----------



## 9516518

Yes you should! Grit is on WJLP 33.3, Bounce is on WFUT 41.2, and Cozi is on WNBC 4.2

Note that you will need to extend the rabbit ears all the way to receive WJLP since it is on RF channel 3. You may have difficulty receiving it as that band is prone to noise but you are close to the transmitters so it may not be an issue.

Who knows, maybe a paper clip bent out from the coax port could be all you need--try that before you buy a set of rabbit ears, even though rabbit ears are inexpensive. A family member of mine lives six miles away from their transmitters and can receive all of their stations on high VHF and UHF using just a metal paper clip.


----------



## head_unit

mikehende said:


> will this work


Well if not I got this
Philips Flat Panel HD Passive Antenna - Black
which uniquely (a) does not need to plug in to AC or USB, and (b) has a bit of a kickstand. I've used Mohu Leaf and and Amazon Basics, but most of the indoor antennas need to be plugged in, and then stuck on something (they won't stand up by themselves).

Be prepared to spend some time scanning for stations, and maybe shifting the antenna and re-scanning. Definitely use Antenna Signal Prediction to figure out which direction your transmitters are as a starting point. OTA is great though when the source is good, stuff looks super clear.


----------



## MRG1

My personal experience was that the height the antenna is mounted at is an overwhelming factor in antenna effectiveness.

E.g., when I put a home-made antenna, that I created by stripping off one end and the insulation and outer "shield" from 8-10' ( idon't recall exactly) of an F-type antenna cable, in my attic, though I had to experiment a bit with location, because trees can get in the way, (I chose an F-type cable, because the connector fits the antenna connection on a TV, and because I hoped the impedance would match what a TV would expect. If I remember right, it was a few dollars at a hardware store.) I got over 40 channels in College Park, Maryland. I live now in a basement, and can only get a few that way, and not reliably. Even with a moderately serious antenna, I can't get anything reliably. What I get, I often lose when a car or truck drives in front of the house.

HDTV antennas aren't a complete scam. It isn't altogether true that any antenna will do equally well at television frequencies. For example, an AM radio antenna might not do very well at most TV frequencies, and an FM radio antenna might only bring in certain frequencies well. I think both might also have an impedance mismatch issue. However, it is true that old style TV antennas still work well with HDTVs, because HDTV channels operate at a subset of the frequencies old NTSC TVs used. 

My assumption is that by free you mean to pick up OTA TV ("Free TV"), not that you want a free antenna. But iyou may be able to get a decent antenna for free through FreeCycle - but maybe not if too many other people nearby lost Internet service too. If you have a local thrift shop, you could try there too, for cheap antennas, but most thrift shops now sell much of their stuff at above new value.

Once you get your Internet back, look into Locast - you can watch nearby broadcast channels for free over the Internet. Many TV networks also stream their own shows over the Internet for free - after about a week. And you can buy some individual shows for much less than the cost of cable or an Internet streaming provider. I've actually stopped subscribing to a streaming TV provider. 

Let me discourage you from mounting an outdoor antenna yourself unless you know what you are doing. An improperly mounted and grounded outdoor antenna could do a lot of harm to your home and electronics if it got hit by lightning, and would also void your insurance. Of course, any antenna, or metal object, could be hit by lightning anywhere in the home, but it mostly only happens outdoors, and it is only likely to be a legal and insurance problem outdoors.

The good news is that, at least near me, I think antennas work best in the summer. I don't know why.

(Needless to say, if you still have lost your power, your TV probably won't work either.)


----------



## mikehende

I tried with 2 sizes paper clips but they do not fit in the coax pin hole. I will go looking for the antenna in a few but would an fm radio antenna also work?


----------



## weekendtoy

I live less than 20 miles from the closest TV transmitter towers. In my upstairs bedroom TV I can get by with just a coax cable plugged into the TV. It doesn't actually connect anything on the other end but provides enough 'antenna' to get the job done. 

In the rest of the house, I have to use powered antennas.


----------



## 9516518

mikehende said:


> I will go looking for the antenna in a few but would an fm radio antenna also work?


Honestly, if you have it, try it. For VHF frequencies (WJLP, WABC, WPIX, WNET) it definitely should, but for UHF where most of your stations are your mileage could be more limited. Don't buy an FM radio antenna if you don't already have it, just buy some rabbit ears instead--they're essentially the same thing, except rabbit ears also have a loop for UHF frequencies. Or, try a piece of coax. If you have a piece that you wouldn't mind stripping you can expose the center conductor further. Not an efficient antenna but it could work


----------



## mikehende

I cut the coax but under the black outer coating is a white plastic housing and when I cut that there is only a super thing piece of copper wire which fits off too.

I still tried it and getting channels 2, 4 and 4.2 but with intermittent interruptions or picture freezing.


----------



## mikehende

So the $4 Rabbit Ears antenna does not work well on my mom's tv. We have an amplified indoor antenna on one tv which works well so we ordered 2 from Amazon which should be here tomorrow.

Strange though that the cut coat is showing consistently better on my tv now. I am scared to even try the 2nd Rabbit Ears antenna on mine lol


----------



## 9516518

So when you cut the coax, was the copper exposed fully or did it come off with the white dielectric? A good amount should be exposed. Location is everything. Find a spot (even an inconvenient one) that everything comes in at--by a window facing the transmitters works best--and then once the channels are scanned in, use that to try it at different locations. Good luck, and sorry to hear the rabbit ears didn't work. Amplified leafs will work better for your UHF than high VHF, and definitely not on low VHF.


----------



## DrDon

Merged into New York thread in hopes @mikehende can get more localized information. Mike: See the Read Before Posting post at the top for more information you'll need and how to go about posting it.

Doc


----------



## mikehende

DrDon said:


> Merged into New York thread in hopes @mikehende can get more localized information. Mike: See the Read Before Posting post at the top for more information you'll need and how to go about posting it.
> 
> Doc


Sorry Doc, I am not understanding what you mean?

Anyway guys, we got our net back this morning and the amplified antennas came from Amazon so now we should be fine if another outage.


----------



## DrDon

What I mean is that you put a thread about antenna help in a section for discussing shows. I moved it to the New York antenna help thread. You were sent a PM explaining it all.

Doc


----------



## mikehende

Oh, my apologies and I did not notice I had a pm sorry.


----------



## Brian in CT

mikehende said:


> Anyway guys, we got our net back this morning and the amplified antennas came from Amazon so now we should be fine if another outage.
> View attachment 3027596


Hi Mike. If you originally posted on the NYC OTA thread, I would have told you to go to www.rabbitears.info to check for TV signals at your location. TV Fool is THREE YEARS out of date. Well, that's water under the bridge.

Now that I see what antenna you bought, I have good news and bad news. The good news is the above antenna should give you reception of the full power UHF TV stations transmitting from 1WTC. The line-of-sight range for "mud flap" antennas the size shown is about 15 miles without amplification. You said you lived near JFK airport, so I think you'll be fine for those stations. The bad news is these types of antennas do a poor job receiving any VHF signals. Therefore, you might not receive WJLP (RF channel 3), WABC (RF 7), WPIX (RF 11), and WNET (RF 12).

Since you said this antenna is just for emergencies, I guess I might be nitpicking. Let us know how the antenna works out for you when you get the chance.


----------



## rondtroy

I live at the east end of the Town of Huntington in a bit of a dip (a hill of sorts right behind my house blocking signals from NYC, also CT. I'd love something I could put in the attic and run to a few TV's to get NYC, maybe Hartford VHF and UHF, but not big. I can get power to it. On Long Island, periodic outages due to storms, etc. are not exactly uncommon. It cannot be big, though. I MIGHT be able to put it on a corner of the house outside, not sure.


----------



## SBRUSKI

rondtroy said:


> I live at the east end of the Town of Huntington in a bit of a dip (a hill of sorts right behind my house blocking signals from NYC, also CT. I'd love something I could put in the attic and run to a few TV's to get NYC, maybe Hartford VHF and UHF, but not big. I can get power to it. On Long Island, periodic outages due to storms, etc. are not exactly uncommon. It cannot be big, though. I MIGHT be able to put it on a corner of the house outside, not sure.


Hi Rondtroy.
Huntington is tough.
Your best bet is find what is receivable.
Start with:








Antenna Signal Prediction


Which broadcast channels can you receive for free? It's time you cut the cord!




antennaweb.org












DTV Reception Maps







www.fcc.gov




Antenna Man on You Tube. For tested antennas
Your in good range of NYC towers and most channels(2,4,5) are broadcast from 1 World Trade on UHF.
7,11,13 are Empire State and are VHF.
A 40 or higher mile antenna is best. Top quality quad shielded coax cable.
If your behind any large hills. You may do better looking toward CT.
In attic antenna reduce signal strength. Rooftop will help you pull in weak signals.
Some UHF antenna's are not too big.
Maybe a antenna preamp. But that wont help in a power outage.
Read this forum and the Long Island OTA forum for some knowledgeable people with similar issues.

PS: This will probably be moved to the Long Island OTA forum. So if it disappears. You know where to look.


----------



## Brian in CT

rondtroy said:


> I live at the east end of the Town of Huntington in a bit of a dip (a hill of sorts right behind my house blocking signals from NYC, also CT. I'd love something I could put in the attic and run to a few TV's to get NYC, maybe Hartford VHF and UHF, but not big. I can get power to it. On Long Island, periodic outages due to storms, etc. are not exactly uncommon. It cannot be big, though. I MIGHT be able to put it on a corner of the house outside, not sure.


In addition to what SBRUSKI said, go to www.rabbitears.info and use the "Signal Search Map" tool to pinpoint the spot where you want to put an antenna. Remember to input the planned height AGL. Link the "Results List" to this site so we can see what you're up against. Then we can analyze your situation.


----------



## ALP

Guys, I realize this is off topic but can someone please help me understand what is going on. It has been a while since I have been here. The new format is really poor, much harder to read. When I log on there was a pop up that asked me to allow the AVS forum to send me "push" notifications. What is a "push" notification?


----------



## MeatChicken

The World Trade Should Be


rondtroy said:


> I live at the east end of the Town of Huntington in a bit of a dip (a hill of sorts right behind my house blocking signals from NYC, also CT. I'd love something I could put in the attic and run to a few TV's to get NYC, maybe Hartford VHF and UHF, but not big. I can get power to it. On Long Island, periodic outages due to storms, etc. are not exactly uncommon. It cannot be big, though. I MIGHT be able to put it on a corner of the house outside, not sure.


 The World Trade should be xmitting (virtual) major Channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 13, 31, 47, and (21) , Empire and Times Square are currently 33, 11.... if I'm not mistaken


----------



## KyL416

Empire has 7, 11, and 41/68. They also have a repeater for WMBC 63, but it's a low power signal that's hard to pick up out in Suffolk without a deep fringe antenna or being in a sweet spot terrain wise.
1WTC has 2, 4/47, 5, 9/48, 13/14/46, 21 and 31
4 Times Square has 25 along with 33/37 who will be moving to 1WTC in the near future.

Out in Huntington you should be able to get UniMas, Univision along with True Crime, Grit and Mystery via WFTY 67.x , and depending on where you are you might also get WCBS's RF 22 repeater from WLNY's tower, which will help when boost conditions over the sound wipe out reception of their main RF 36 signal.

The Connecticut channels might be doable, but you'd have a better chance with an outdoor antenna since Huntington is more towards that area of western Suffolk where reliable reception of Connecticut drops off unless you are close to the sound. WTNH/WCTX on RF 10 is the easiest since they transmit further south towards New Haven, but will likely require a more complex setup involving a rotator if you want the NYC VHFs at the same time. If you're in the more northern parts of Huntington, like north of the train tracks, you should have an easy time getting WEDW/WZME on RF 21 too. The stations closer to Hartford like WVIT and WCCT will give you a harder time, while WCBS and WPXN pretty much kills your chances of getting WFSB or WTIC.


----------



## Useeme1234

I want to ask a question, I dont know if is my television (samsung) when rescann for ota channels it abruptly stops on rf 28, and doesnt keep going, when i stop scan, Im missing
nbc, telemundo, also wnet 13. Is anyone else having this issue, scan stoppinf on rf 28, I noticed that there is virtual ch28, showing shopping network on there.


----------



## SBRUSKI

Useeme1234 said:


> I want to ask a question, I dont know if is my television (samsung) when rescann for ota channels it abruptly stops on rf 28, and doesnt keep going, when i stop scan, Im missing
> nbc, telemundo, also wnet 13. Is anyone else having this issue, scan stoppinf on rf 28, I noticed that there is virtual ch28, showing shopping network on there.


2 different idea's to try.
Try to manually enter 36.1 or 47.1 Both are strong signals and many TV's will recognize a channel after installed manually. 
Another odd problem I ran into was using a old cable companies splitter. My splitter was not rated for frequencies over 500 mhz. Killed most of my upper channels.


----------



## ansky212

MeatChicken said:


> The World Trade Should Be
> 
> The World Trade should be xmitting (virtual) major Channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 13, 31, 47, and (21) , Empire and Times Square are currently 33, 11.... if I'm not mistaken


WABC 7 is on Empire.


----------



## KyL416

WNYE's request to increase their power from 151 kW to 180 kW was granted today. It only gives their contour an increase of about a mile, so most people in the 5 boroughs won't notice a difference, but it should make a difference in some areas of New Jersey, Westchester, Nassau and Western Suffolk, and might improve indoor reception in some areas like Southern Westchester and Western Nassau.

Also, WMBC filed to change to 1WTC's upper antenna instead of a side mounted antenna, if it's approved, this will be their contour. Both this modification and their original application to move to 1WTC are still pending.


----------



## ansky212

Has there been any recent update on the DTS application for WEDW?


----------



## KyL416

The latest tolling request says they're still waiting for the FCC to dismiss WJLP's bogus objection for good.

Even if they were fully in the clear, the mast work at Empire won't begin until next year. WFUT/WXTV's tolling extensions explain it in depth, but basically they're installing concrete security barriers on the sidewalks around the Empire State Building to prevent another car attack, so they can't get the permits to build the required scaffolding to protect pedestrians from falling debris until that's finished.


----------



## js2010iii

Did 33 WJLP and 37 WNWT go down? (RF 3) I'm in mid NJ and can't receive them anymore.

WJLP-DT 33.1 IND
RF Channel 3
(20 miles at 71.89°)
11 Total Channels

WNWT-LD 37.1 CTV
RF Channel 3
(20 miles at 71.89°)
2 Total Channels

EDIT: Oh, the clearstream max-v can't pickup low vhf 3, but an old cheap rabbit ear antenna can.


----------



## Brian in CT

js2010iii said:


> Oh, the clearstream max-v can't pickup low vhf 3, but an old cheap rabbit ear antenna can.


In the last ten years, many antenna manufacturers have been pushing "digital antennas" that are great with UHF, but not as good with VHF-Hi, and poor with VHF-Lo. From looking at a Clearstream Max-V, it seems to prove my point. The round UHF elements look impressive, but the VHF dipoles seem like an afterthought. You need longer elements to receive VHF-Lo properly. So an extended rabbit ear antenna can outperform it. At least you weren't suckered into buying one of those flat "mud flap" antennas. They will do nothing for VHF signals.


----------



## ansky212

I'm 10 miles outside NYC and I have been using this antenna for the past several years and it works very well on VHF hi/lo and UHF:



https://www.amazon.com/Antenna-Satellite-Broadcast-Epicenter-Reception/dp/B0024R4B5C/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2MO2CH2JI2IK6&dchild=1&keywords=rca+outdoor+yagi+satellite+hd+antenna&qid=1598881909&sprefix=rca+out%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyMUVZVTg2MDk0UEwzJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjU3MTA5MkczRUo4SFdPNkhDSSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDQzNDMxMjE2VlpKM1pIMTE4WCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


----------



## Useeme1234

Classic rca, also known as dannys antenna, hd stacker..


----------



## D_B

Live in Woodside Queens and my reception has within the last month or so has become terrible.

Have rabbit ears with a loop that worked fine for over 10 years, but now I have to move the antenna all over the room to get a signal and sometimes just give up.

When I look at the antenna rating sites it says I should get good reception on a bunch of channels I don't. I am assuming some building/s have gone up causing interference.

I'm willing to sink some money into an antenna but am not sure what to buy. Unfortunately I live on the 2nd floor of an apartment building and mounting something on the roof is not really an option. I would not mind putting in a small attic antenna into my room but I really have no experience with what would be best.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!


----------



## SnellKrell

It's important to understand that what might work for one person may not work for another -
ieven f they live next door.

Here is a link for a Winegard antenna that I use. It works very well for me placed on a window sill.
Although Winegard doesn't mention its ability to receive Low-"V," I have no trouble bringing in
RF 3 - one of my strongest stations. The link mentions "outdoor," it can easily be used inside.

I wish you well.






FreeVision Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna | Winegard Company







winegard.com


----------



## Brian in CT

D_B said:


> Live in Woodside Queens and my reception has within the last month or so has become terrible.
> 
> Have rabbit ears with a loop that worked fine for over 10 years, but now I have to move the antenna all over the room to get a signal and sometimes just give up.


Before you chuck your current antenna, you might want to check the connectors and the wire itself to see if there are any problems. Over ten years, wires can get kinked and connectors (if used outside) can get corroded. If your antenna had a built-in amp, it could have died last month. If you already inspected your setup and couldn't find anything wrong, SnellKrell's antenna is definitely worth a shot. He somehow gets great reception from an apartment window setup through the canyons of Manhattan.

BTW, there are literally DOZENS of reasons why a TV signal won't decode. The ATSC 1.0 system is VERY temperamental to begin with. Like what you said, any piece of metal or solid obstruction(s) near the path of your signal could cause dropouts due to reflections. That's why any indoor antenna for a typical apartment setup will work best near a window facing 1WTC.


----------



## LenL

What a surprise I got this AM. All of the stations broadcasting from ESB and 1WTC were not being received. Signal strength was good but quality was zero. NJTV 50.1 was 100/100. So it can't be my connections.


----------



## 9516518

LenL said:


> What a surprise I got this AM. All of the stations broadcasting from ESB and 1WTC were not being received. Signal strength was good but quality was zero. NJTV 50.1 was 100/100. So it can't be my connections.


There was unbelievably strong tropo this morning all along the eastern seaboard from Virginia up to Massachusetts. I'm in PA, don't have a low VHF antenna, and was receiving WJLP stronger than any of my other stations. All of my local stuff got shot, the only thing I got consistently was WPVI out of Philadelphia. On William Hepburn's DX Info Centre, this ducting event was a 9, 10, and above 10 in spots. Amazing stuff, but terrible for normal reception.


----------



## LenL

antwaves,

Thanks! I was hoping there might be some explanation. I was getting WNYE 25.1 which I think broadcasts also out of NY City but not from the ESB or 1WTC so go figure? So tropo did not impact this?


----------



## ALP

I have been having tropo problems for about 18 hours now. I am about 30 miles due north of NYC and CBS and NBC are intermittent and as usual FOX is terrible. Even without the tropo problems since the last "re-pack" in 1WTC Fox has been terrible. I am thinking I have to get a better antenna just so I can get FOX better. I have a 10 year old Winegard that used to work great for all the main broadcast network channels but since the last re-pack FOX is terrible. If I get one of the newer HD antennas will it still work for Channels 7, 11, and 13 which are still VHF channels that do HD?


----------



## ALP

LenL said:


> antwaves,
> 
> Thanks! I was hoping there might be some explanation. I was getting WNYE 25.1 which I think broadcasts also out of NY City but not from the ESB or 1WTC so go figure? So tropo did not impact this?


Len, Just to see what would happen I re-scanned one of my TV's and I am getting channels I have never seen before.


----------



## SnellKrell

First, there's really no such thing as an "HD Antenna"!

It's all marketing hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An antenna is "cut" to receive frequencies, and it couldn't care less if the transmission is in
Standard Definition, High Definition, Analogue or Digital.

When considering a new antenna, just make sure that the antenna can receive "High VHF"
signals in order to receive 7, 11 and 13 (RF 12).


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> antwaves,
> 
> Thanks! I was hoping there might be some explanation. I was getting WNYE 25.1 which I think broadcasts also out of NY City but not from the ESB or 1WTC so go figure? So tropo did not impact this?


FYI, WNYE transmits from 4 Times Square in Manhattan.


----------



## hancox

antwaves said:


> There was unbelievably strong tropo this morning all along the eastern seaboard from Virginia up to Massachusetts. I'm in PA, don't have a low VHF antenna, and was receiving WJLP stronger than any of my other stations. All of my local stuff got shot, the only thing I got consistently was WPVI out of Philadelphia. On William Hepburn's DX Info Centre, this ducting event was a 9, 10, and above 10 in spots. Amazing stuff, but terrible for normal reception.


Same here - getting Philly locals at the moment!


----------



## 9516518

ALP said:


> Len, Just to see what would happen I re-scanned one of my TV's and I am getting channels I have never seen before.


It's amazing. I live in the far north extreme of the Lehigh Valley, PA and have gotten channels from Richmond, VA, Baltimore, D.C., NYC, and on the radio I've seen some stations from Boston and New Haven even. My locals from Wilkes-Barre, PA haven't been seen all morning, mostly just a mush of Philly and New York. Philly is semi-local for me though, so it's just stronger than normal. I've been DXing for three years now but never have I seen tropo this strong. A radio station from Connecticut cut through one of my strongest just about 18 mi away--so strong, that it's easily received without an antenna attached to any given radio.


LenL said:


> antwaves,
> 
> Thanks! I was hoping there might be some explanation. I was getting WNYE 25.1 which I think broadcasts also out of NY City but not from the ESB or 1WTC so go figure? So tropo did not impact this?


It really depends what frequency the channel broadcasts on. The UHF TV band is congested, so likely why you lose channels is that channels from other markets are competing and creating co-channel interference, cancelling out each other.


----------



## EF9500

So is WNET now on WTC? I havent been able to get them anymore, yet wpix and wabc i get fine.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, and has been for quite a while.

Have you rescanned?

WNET changed its frequency in May and is now transmitting on RF Channel 12.


----------



## hancox

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, and has been for quite a while.
> 
> Have you rescanned?
> 
> WNET changed its frequency in May and is now transmitting on RF Channel 12.


I'm in same boat. WNET used to be reliable, but the switch to 12 and WTC made it borderline for me.


----------



## SnellKrell

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, and has been for quite a while.
> 
> Have you rescanned?
> 
> WNET changed its frequency in May and is now transmitting on RF Channel 12.


----------



## SnellKrell

Correction: WNET changed its frequency to RF12 early July - the move was postponed from May.


----------



## Jason Zarin

WNET has been abysmal for me the last week or so.


----------



## EF9500

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, and has been for quite a while.
> 
> Have you rescanned?
> 
> WNET changed its frequency in May and is now transmitting on RF Channel 12.


I have, its horrible on the wtc. Yet i get wpix which i believe is on wtc, no?


----------



## ansky212

EF9500 said:


> I have, its horrible on the wtc. Yet i get wpix which i believe is on wtc, no?


WPIX and WABC are on the Empire State Building. WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WWOR, and WNET are on WTC.


----------



## KyL416

Also, WNET moved to 1WTC back in July 2018 while they were still on RF 13.

The two area live bandscans in Richmond Hill (Queens) and Fair Lawn, NJ don't show any changes in signal level or quality over the past month for WNET.


----------



## hancox

KyL416 said:


> Also, WNET moved to 1WTC back in July 2019 while they were still on RF 13.
> 
> The two area live bandscans in Richmond Hill (Queens) and Fair Lawn, NJ don't show any changes in signal level or quality over the past month for WNET.


Come on - those are paper-clip distances from 1WTC. Try my live bandscan in Monroe, CT . It's been bad since they moved, with maybe some wavering. WPIX and WABC, even with my CM4228 barely hanging onto high VHF, are much better.


----------



## KyL416

They moved to 1WTC in July 2018 while they were still on RF 13 at 4 kW, and the move to RF 12 this past summer came with a power increase to 6.5 kW. So if anything, the move to RF 12 should have been an improvement. (Yes that seems low, but keep in mind 1WTC is about 325 feet higher than empire so it gives WNET a 64.2 mile contour compared to WPIX's 60.5 mile contour, while WABC was able to get a 68.5 mile contour after the 2009 transition because they don't have to worry about protecting co-channel signals from PA like WPIX and WNET do)

I did notice that scan, but on the weekly graph both WNET and WPIX were unstable on weeks 33-36, and the first week of semi-stable reception was the week of massive tropo across the eastern seaboard, so I couldn't use it to determine a baseline of what is considered "normal" VHF reception for that location. Even though those other live bandscans are closer, there was a noticible dip in both signal strength and SNR on them when WNET was temporarily at 4 Times Square. If WNET were at reduced power I would also notice it here in the Poconos, because the SNR on co-channel WYOU goes up anytime WNET was doing work or at 4 Times Square.

Since the SNR for WPIX has been bouncing around for the past week too, do you have any sources of noise nearby in your house or from a neighbor? i.e. In other threads people reported that some devices with LED lights created more problems on RF 12 than they did on RF 13. Also can you post a rabbitears report for your location so we can see the terrain profiles and describe your antenna setup? I'm not familiar with the terrain in that area of Connecticut, but in some areas of Long Island there are hills that affect VHF reception from 1WTC but not ESB or 4TS, while in Northern Manhattan and the Bronx people have to deal with multipath from those new skinny reflective highrises.


----------



## EF9500

My Giant VHF only antenna is in my attic, I will move it around, see if i can get 13 again.


----------



## hancox

KyL416 said:


> They moved to 1WTC in July 2018 while they were still on RF 13 at 4 kW, and the move to RF 12 this past summer came with a power increase to 6.5 kW. So if anything, the move to RF 12 should have been an improvement. (Yes that seems low, but keep in mind 1WTC is about 325 feet higher than empire so it gives WNET a 64.2 mile contour compared to WPIX's 60.5 mile contour, while WABC was able to get a 68.5 mile contour after the 2009 transition because they don't have to worry about protecting co-channel signals from PA like WPIX and WNET do)
> 
> I did notice that scan, but on the weekly graph both WNET and WPIX were unstable on weeks 33-36, and the first week of semi-stable reception was the week of massive tropo across the eastern seaboard, so I couldn't use it to determine a baseline of what is considered "normal" VHF reception for that location. Even though those other live bandscans are closer, there was a noticible dip in both signal strength and SNR on them when WNET was temporarily at 4 Times Square. If WNET were at reduced power I would also notice it here in the Poconos, because the SNR on co-channel WYOU goes up anytime WNET was doing work or at 4 Times Square.
> 
> Since the SNR for WPIX has been bouncing around for the past week too, do you have any sources of noise nearby in your house or from a neighbor? i.e. In other threads people reported that some devices with LED lights created more problems on RF 12 than they did on RF 13. Also can you post a rabbitears report for your location so we can see the terrain profiles and describe your antenna setup? I'm not familiar with the terrain in that area of Connecticut, but in some areas of Long Island there are hills that affect VHF reception from 1WTC but not ESB or 4TS, while in Northern Manhattan and the Bronx people have to deal with multipath from those new skinny reflective highrises.


Yeah - agreed on VHF noise - look at the WTNH mapping for my scan - finally narrowed it down to a USB fan in my kids room - maddening!

My rabbitears scan - I'm LoS to both 1WTC and ESB.


----------



## n2ubp

I installed my roof antennas around 2006 so I figure age and weather have taken a toll on them, perhaps time to get something new. I live just outside of Middletown, NY zip 10940, about 60 miles northwest of NYC. TV Fool told me way back when that my location was "2 edge". Ground elevation above sea level is about 560 feet. Add another 30 feet for house and antenna mast. Currently running a 91xg for UHF combined with a Wingard VHF high band into a mast mounted Spartan pre amp, channel master rotor. Right now not picking up CBS, NBC WNYW. WABC is 85 + signal strength but can't always decode it, sometimes I can get it to decode by pointing the antenna to the south west instead of southeast so I suspect multipath. WPIX is good, WNET can be decoded about 85 percent of the time, virtual channel 31 no longer there. virtual 33 (real channel 3) seems to come in strong even though I do not have a VHF low band antenna. Haven't picked up WWOR in ages. What has changed over the years? The repack, a 200 foot tall cellphone tower installed within 1/2 mile viewable line of site to my southwest. Six story tall power plant with twin 225 foot steel smoke stacks 400 yards to my south. Pine trees about 200 feet to my south are significantly taller than my home, were lower than house 10 - 15 years ago. Antenna suggestions along with any other suggestions appreciated. Do you think a LTE signal filter might help given how close I am to the cell tower?

Steve
N2UBP


----------



## Useeme1234

Yeah I use antennasdirect juice, which I have mast mounted near my 91xg. Even though
I'm in nyc, 6 miles east (Queens) from esb, 8 miles from freecom tower, it helps me bring in wnet, which is incredibly difficult to decode recently.


----------



## KyL416

From the list of stations you lost, it sounds like something might have happened between the UHF antenna and the combiner, if you can check for any corrosion or rust on the wires or connectors. Do you get any of the Hudson Valley LPTV stations like 30-1 WYNB-LD (RF 30), 29-1 WZPK-LD (RF 31) or 51-1 WYJH-LD (RF 27)?

Also, please post a link to a RabbitEars report, a lot has changed since 2006, including many stations moving back to the new 1WTC. Which depending where you are and the terrain could be an improvement, or make things worse.


----------



## n2ubp

The signals from both antennas are combined in the mast mounted Spartan preamp. I will have to go up on the roof and check the connections. I used RG-6 coax and compression fitting F connectors. Wrapped each F connector in a couple of layers of electrical tape. If I see signs of corrosion I can replace the coax and connectors and use coax seal on them instead of tape. Rabbit Ears report does not look very promising. Surprised I get anything from NYC looking at this report. RabbitEars.Info

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## KyL416

Yeah, unfortuantely it looks like WYJH-LD puts out a decent signal over your area, and that's co-channel with WNYW, so you might be out of luck for Fox.

Do you rememeber exactly when you lost 31 WPXN and when you lost the other UHF stations? The ones you listed all left Empire for 1WTC, but each at different times. WPXN moved first in January 2018, WWOR moved in March 2018, WNBC moved in April 2018 after they started sharing with WNJU who was already at 1WTC, WCBS and WNYW moved in August 2019. And after the RF number changes in August 2019, all of them were at reduced power until October 2019.


----------



## n2ubp

My memory could be better. I do remember receiving just about every NYC station just before the analogue shutdown when all digital stations were on UHF. I've also seem to have better reception in the dead of winter with a thick coating of snow on the ground (less leaves on trees?) compared to summer. Not sure if any of these attached pictures are of value..


----------



## n2ubp

n2ubp said:


> My memory could be better. I do remember receiving just about every NYC station just before the analogue shutdown ...


Late last night I rescanned for channels and was not impressed with the results. I tried it again early this morning and was able to receive all the channel I had originally received except for WNYW. I also tried a manual scan with a Homeworx receiver and discovered very strong signals, 100 percent signal strength, on frequencies higher than what are currently being used for television. Then I remembered over 6 months ago my county turned on a new 700mhz and 800 mhz trunked P25 phase 2 public service radio system. I will install a LTE filter and see if that helps at all. Their transmissions could be overloading my older preamps which cover the frequencies they are using.


----------



## MeatChicken

n2ubp said:


> The signals from both antennas are combined in the mast mounted Spartan preamp. I will have to go up on the roof and check the connections. I used RG-6 coax and compression fitting F connectors. Wrapped each F connector in a couple of layers of electrical tape. If I see signs of corrosion I can replace the coax and connectors and use coax seal on them instead of tape. Rabbit Ears report does not look very promising. Surprised I get anything from NYC looking at this report. RabbitEars.Info
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


 If a cell tower is actuallu about 2600 ft, & in a direct line from your antenna, it may be worth trying an LTE filter before the input to your preamp, & rescan .....


----------



## KyL416

About a month ago, the FCC finally affirmed WEDW's DTS application and rejected WJLP's baseless objections for good.

They have now filed for an additional modification for a 3rd DTS site, also at Empire. DTS-1 will be their main non-directional Trumbull signal, DTS-2 and DTS-3 will be directional signals on opposite sides of floors 84-85 of the Empire State building, DTS-2 will be pointed NorthEast and DTS-3 will be pointed SouthWest.


----------



## scorpiony

Has anyone lost reception of WJLP in Manhattan? 
Here on UWS and used to get excellent steady reception till Saturday. 
I noticed frozen video on LOCAST app, intermittently, as well 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> About a month ago, the FCC finally affirmed WEDW's DTS application and rejected WJLP's baseless objections for good.
> 
> They have now filed for an additional modification for a 3rd DTS site, also at Empire. DTS-1 will be their main non-directional Trumbull signal, DTS-2 and DTS-3 will be directional signals on opposite sides of floors 84-85 of the Empire State building, DTS-2 will be pointed NorthEast and DTS-3 will be pointed SouthWest.


Thanks for the update. Is there a coverage map available anywhere to see what the new pattern will look like?


----------



## KyL416

RabbitEars will have the propogation maps generated at some point tommorow, but for now you can see the contours on page 4 of their technical exhibit.



scorpiony said:


> Has anyone lost reception of WJLP in Manhattan?


The area live bandscans do show a change in WJLP's levels starting on 9/24.


----------



## scorpiony

KyL416 said:


> RabbitEars will have the propogation maps generated at some point tommorow, but for now you can see the contours on page 4 of their technical exhibit.
> 
> 
> The area live bandscans do show a change in WJLP's levels starting on 9/24.


Thank you for the information, I wonder what’s going on ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hancox

KyL416 said:


> About a month ago, the FCC finally affirmed WEDW's DTS application and rejected WJLP's baseless objections for good.
> 
> They have now filed for an additional modification for a 3rd DTS site, also at Empire. DTS-1 will be their main non-directional Trumbull signal, DTS-2 and DTS-3 will be directional signals on opposite sides of floors 84-85 of the Empire State building, DTS-2 will be pointed NorthEast and DTS-3 will be pointed SouthWest.


So they'll have a 3-site DTS system going, with none of the 3 being their license city that they specifically transferred to. Not saying it's "wrong" just weird.

My place will be an interesting test site for this new setup - I'm VERY close to the Trumbull site, but also have LOS to the ESB, though technically out of their contour from their data.


----------



## Trip in VA

KyL416 said:


> RabbitEars will have the propogation maps generated at some point tommorow, but for now you can see the contours on page 4 of their technical exhibit.


It wasn't here, but somewhere you said this process was automatic. FYI, it is not. I manually set up the maps to run each day, so if I'm not in a position to do so, it doesn't get done. It's usually a straight-forward process as much of it is automated, but not all of it. (I also check the maps one-by-one afterward to make sure they came out okay, and rerun them if not.)

WEDW's application has some complicating factors (specifically mechanical tilt with elevation patterns) that mean I have to do a lot more manual work to make sure the maps come out right. I hope to get them made today, but won't promise it.

EDIT: Took less time than I feared. It's done. RabbitEars.Info

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> It wasn't here, but somewhere you said this process was automatic. FYI, it is not. I manually set up the maps to run each day, so if I'm not in a position to do so, it doesn't get done. It's usually a straight-forward process as much of it is automated, but not all of it. (I also check the maps one-by-one afterward to make sure they came out okay, and rerun them if not.)
> 
> WEDW's application has some complicating factors (specifically mechanical tilt with elevation patterns) that mean I have to do a lot more manual work to make sure the maps come out right. I hope to get them made today, but won't promise it.
> 
> EDIT: Took less time than I feared. It's done. RabbitEars.Info
> 
> - Trip


Thanks! My address shows up in the dark green Interfering Contour (about 10 miles due west of ESB). Does that mean I won't be able to receive them?


----------



## Trip in VA

The green is actually the DTS reference circle. But the contours don't drive the discussion of what you can receive; rather, the colors of the Longley-Rice map do. Note that some of the colors don't show up quite right because you might have red from one transmitter overlapping with green from another, for example.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> The green is actually the DTS reference circle. But the contours don't drive the discussion of what you can receive; rather, the colors of the Longley-Rice map do. Note that some of the colors don't show up quite right because you might have red from one transmitter overlapping with green from another, for example.
> 
> - Trip


Thanks. Yes it was the Longley-Rice map I was looking at which shows me in a dark greenish-brown color. So I assume the strong signal from the green will wipe out the weak red and I should be able to pull in this station.


----------



## Trip in VA

Yes, that should be the case.

- Trip


----------



## Useeme1234

When will wedw be ready to fire up nyc!!


----------



## KyL416

They just filed for the modification yesterday, it hasn't been granted yet.

As for a timeline, not until next year since they're affected by the same issues causing delays for WFUT/WXTV. Scaffolding to protect pedestrians from falling debris needs to be constructed around the Empire State Building before they can do the work, and the city won't be able to grant permits for that until next year because they're busy building concrete security barriers on the sidewalks around the building to prevent car attacks. The scaffolding can't go up on the sidewalks until that project is finished.


----------



## hancox

KyL416 said:


> They just filed for the modification yesterday, it hasn't been granted yet.
> 
> As for a timeline, not until next year since they're affected by the same issues causing delays for WFUT/WXTV. Scaffolding to protect pedestrians from falling debris needs to be constructed around the Empire State Building before they can do the work, and the city won't be able to grant permits for that until next year because they're busy building concrete security barriers on the sidewalks around the building to prevent car attacks. The scaffolding can't go up on the sidewalks until that project is finished.


I'll admit to being naive here, but would this potentially impact ASTC3 permits, or can those be done without work "outside"


----------



## scorpiony

scorpiony said:


> Has anyone lost reception of WJLP in Manhattan?
> Here on UWS and used to get excellent steady reception till Saturday.
> I noticed frozen video on LOCAST app, intermittently, as well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wrote to the chief engineer of WJLP Jim McGowan, his reply: 

“Can I please get your address or Nearest Cross Streets. We are tracking an interference problem and will be doing testing tomorrow.

Thanks
Jim “

If anyone else is having a problem, please email Jim your location information, that will be very helpful, his email address:

[email protected]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MeatChicken

How about the WJLP move to WTC , anyone have any new info?


----------



## scorpiony

MeatChicken said:


> How about the WJLP move to WTC , anyone have any new info?


According to their website, they are transmitting from the WTC. 

“WJLP is a full-power VHF station serving the New York City television market, licensed to Middletown, NJ and owned by PMCM-TV, LLC.

WJLP transmits from atop One World Trade Center, and its studio is in Freehold, NJ.

It is an affiliate of the MeTV Network and runs the complete MeTV lineup except for two weekend hours when it runs the locally produced “Jersey Matters” (5-6 p.m. Saturdays and 11 a.m.-12 p.m. Sundays).”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ansky212

I live in Jersey and I just checked WJLP and I'm only getting them at 50% signal strength. I usually get them at 100% so something must be going on with them. Did they just recently move to WTC?


----------



## scorpiony

ansky212 said:


> I live in Jersey and I just checked WJLP and I'm only getting them at 50% signal strength. I usually get them at 100% so something must be going on with them. Did they just recently move to WTC?


You should send an email to their engineer 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unsmiley

scorpiony said:


> I wrote to the chief engineer of WJLP Jim McGowan, his reply:
> 
> “Can I please get your address or Nearest Cross Streets. We are tracking an interference problem and will be doing testing tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks
> Jim “
> 
> If anyone else is having a problem, please email Jim your location information, that will be very helpful, his email address:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I too completely lost WJLP (MeTV) on October 24th on all of the televisions in my apartment on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. I emailed Jim McGowan when you suggested, and have gotten no response. I also left a voicemail message when the outage started, no response. Very frustrating.


----------



## KyL416

43-x WNXY-LD resumed operations on their RF 10 signal today. The live bandscan in Richmond Hill starting picking it up about 2 hours ago.

It's a highly directional signal to protect WTNH, so anyone north of midtown or east of exit 20 on the LIE will have a hard time picking it up. The best spots for reception appear to be Sunnyside and southern Manhattan.

Also, they have to find a new major number once WZME moves in via WEDW.


----------



## darkegg

KyL416 said:


> 43-x WNXY-LD resumed operations on their RF 10 signal today. The live bandscan in Richmond Hill starting picking it up about 2 hours ago.
> 
> It's a highly directional signal to protect WTNH, so anyone north of midtown or east of exit 20 on the LIE will have a hard time picking it up. The best spots for reception appear to be Sunnyside and southern Manhattan.


Looks like it's showing GOODTV. It's very pixelated (not watchable) here with the attic antenna. TSReader export attached (rename file to .htm because .htm extension is not allowed for uploads).


----------



## KyL416

For those waiting for WXNY (RF 23) and WNYX (RF 5), they provided an explanation in their latest silent request. They expect the equipment for WXNY to arrive in early December and once that's installed all 3 channels will be back to continuous service.


----------



## LenL

I get all the high VHF stations just fine except for WPIX 11.1. I was getting it and now I lost it. Anyone know what the difference is between WPIX and WABC? They both Broadcast from the ESB. Does one have a much different broadcast pattern or power? I guess I should go to rabbit ears and check it out. Just wondering if anyone else noticed any change?


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> I get all the high VHF stations just fine except for WPIX 11.1. I was getting it and now I lost it. Anyone know what the difference is between WPIX and WABC? They both Broadcast from the ESB. Does one have a much different broadcast pattern or power? I guess I should go to rabbit ears and check it out. Just wondering if anyone else noticed any change?


I have not noticed any changes, but the ERP of WABC is almost 5 times higher than the ERP of WPIX.


----------



## ansky212

According to Rabbitears the new DTS application for WEDW has been approved. I guess now it's just a waiting game for the new equipment to be installed at ESB.


----------



## pabuwal

Anyone know when WNYW will switch to the other distribution system so this picture quality during NFL isn't so terrible? It's ridiculous the O&O flagship station has significantly worse picture quality than other affiliates.


----------



## EF9500

pabuwal said:


> Anyone know when WNYW will switch to the other distribution system so this picture quality during NFL isn't so terrible? It's ridiculous the O&O flagship station has significantly worse picture quality than other affiliates.


Fox has always looked like sht with sports


----------



## MeatChicken

It seems that the "Buzzr" Sub-channel feed from WWOR is oddly vertically stretched...
This does not seem to appear on other feeds of Buzzr, either Online ( Pluto) , or non-WWOR feeds .. ??


----------



## Brian in CT

MeatChicken said:


> It seems that the "Buzzr" Sub-channel feed from WWOR is oddly vertically stretched...
> This does not seem to appear on other feeds of Buzzr, either Online ( Pluto) , or non-WWOR feeds .. ??


Someone at WWOR forgot to "flip a switch" when Buzzr changed their format to 16:9 (mostly for commercials) some months ago. Getting any answers from calling either WWOR or WNYW is like pulling teeth.


----------



## SnellKrell

I sent emails and left voice messages for the head of engineering of WNYW years ago
about the station's then impending move to 1WTC. I'm still waiting for a reply.

"In the public's interest, convenience and necessity."

Yeah, sure!


----------



## MadMan400096

SnellKrell said:


> I sent emails and left voice messages for the head of engineering of WNYW years ago
> about the station's then impending move to 1WTC. I'm still waiting for a reply.
> 
> "In the public's interest, convenience and necessity."
> 
> Yeah, sure!


Ugh, I know the feeling. WWLP's fourth digital subchannel, which carries Court TV Mystery, still has this awful stretch-o-vision effect that crops out part of the video on the sides, and all my attempts to get it fixed, such as contacting both WWLP and Katz Networks itself, have been utterly in vain. I'm starting to wonder if it'll stay like that forever...🤦‍♂️


----------



## David1014

Anyone knows when the rest of the channels in NYC finish moving? Some like WASA and others are still off the air and KOB is supposed to move to 13 but nothing is happening.


----------



## KyL416

LPTV stations like WASA and WKOB are not part of phases and have construction permits that don't expire until 2022 or 2023. They'll move and/or return to air whenever they can get a crew to get the work done and their manufacturers are ready to ship their new equipment. Right now most of the tower crews and manufacturers are still backlogged with repacked stations that need to complete their final facilities.

In WASA's case they were forced off air when T-Mobile paid WWOR to switch to RF 25 early. Right now they're technically on air via WKOB 42.6 who they will be spectrum sharing with on RF 13 when everything is done, before the WKOB subchannel they were using a subchannel of a station in the Hudson Valley to transmit Estrella.


----------



## HoundBaby

Has 13.1 lowered there signal strength. I’m west of the city in Morris Country and the signal had dropped to the point that I’m now getting pixalalation the last couple of weeks. I was getting a 100% signal when there first moved to the WTC location.


----------



## LenL

HoundBaby said:


> Has 13.1 lowered there signal strength. I’m west of the city in Morris Country and the signal had dropped to the point that I’m now getting pixalalation the last couple of weeks. I was getting a 100% signal when there first moved to the WTC location.


Same here but it is NOT signal strength that is the problem it is signal quality for me. Do you get readings for both strength and quality? If you are only getting signal strength the quality may be impacting your reading. Same for PIX 11.1.

Fortunately I can get all of the programming that is on 13.1 on 21.1 (WLIW) or 50.1(NJTV).


----------



## perpetualfeast

HoundBaby said:


> Has 13.1 lowered there signal strength. I’m west of the city in Morris Country and the signal had dropped to the point that I’m now getting pixalalation the last couple of weeks. I was getting a 100% signal when there first moved to the WTC location.


I haven't been able to get a signal lock on WNET / THIRTEEN since Oct 30. It looks like the SnR tanked around then: Signal graphs for WNET at Fair Lawn, NJ-N4MJC on tuner1

I wrote in to [email protected]. Please consider writing in if you're having the same problem. Thanks!


----------



## SnellKrell

And here's the graph for the WNET as received by the Live Bandscan in Richmond Hill, Queens.










I'm having no change in the station's reception here on East 93rd Street in Manhattan.


----------



## darkegg

There might have been some changes in WNET on Oct 30, as the weekly graph in Richmond Hill, Queens shows:


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> There might have been some changes in WNET on Oct 30, as the weekly graph in Richmond Hill, Queens shows:
> 
> View attachment 3053681


If changes were made, wouldn't there have been a filing with the FCC?

Could it be that they've been using/testing the new AUX facility at 4TS?


----------



## ansky212

SnellKrell said:


> If changes were made, wouldn't there have been a filing with the FCC?
> 
> Could it be that they've been using/testing the new AUX facility at 4TS?


Or perhaps just some technical problem going on.


----------



## HoundBaby

Just checked 13.1 . It is totally unwatchable tonight, signal strength is a 1 out of 10. SNR is bouncing all over from 12.00 to 14.50. When they first moved to the WTC I was getting great reception. Something definitely has changed.


----------



## fri1038

Atmospheric conditions perhaps. Philadelphia/South NJ same-channel stations seem to be interfering with my reception of DC stations the past few days, here 10 miles south of Baltimore. Clashes with WBAL Baltimore and WYOU Scranton, also on RF12, are possibilities for WNET problems. I was seeing very strong signals from WHYY and WLNY this morning, for example. Tropo forecast is for more mid-Atlantic activity for a few more days.


----------



## Useeme1234

Tropo is with us for a few days, getting wvit, wcct, wtnh with antenna pointed towards esb..


----------



## SBRUSKI

Same issues here with WNET in Smithtown, NY.
TV cannot lock on 13.1, 13.2, 14.1, 46.1
All RF12 channels.
Went from a sig strenght of 54 to 0. Cannot lock on.


----------



## darkegg

WLIW is currently offline since 7AM. Yesterday it was also offline from 7AM-4PM.


----------



## ansky212

darkegg said:


> WLIW is currently offline since 7AM. Yesterday it was also offline from 7AM-4PM.


I'm receiving WLIW loud and clear right now from NJ.


----------



## SnellKrell

No problem with signal here on Upper East Side, Manhattan.


----------



## darkegg

WLIW must be transmitting from the auxiliary site in Plainview, NY right now because both of the live band scanners show it's offline.


----------



## SnellKrell

My signal is at its normal strength as is the S/N.

Rarely was I able to receive Plainview at that level. Most times had trouble to receive at all!


----------



## MozzyMoz

I checked at somewhere around 10:30 am, and it was not getting WLIW at all. I moved around my antenna to see if it was a position problem, but no signal at all. Maybe a failure at the WTC? I also checked at the receiver in Richmond Hill, and signal was way less powerful.
On the other hand, RF 10 WNYX is not appearing at all on my TV despite being my position inside their easy outdoor area on rabbitears.
Yesterday was tropo day indeed, received WTNH RF 10 with no pixelation at around 6:10 pm ET.


----------



## HoundBaby

In Morris Country, NJ. WLIW was dead this am but it’s now back. RF 12 and all of its subs 13.1, 13.2, 14.1, 46.1 are unwatchable , they must be doing work on there transmitter.


----------



## SBRUSKI

WNET and child channels are back up in mid Lawn Guyland.
Sig strength is bouncing 27-38. SNR 19- 21.
Pix not pixeling.
See what happens when the sun is up.


----------



## HoundBaby

Looks like WNET is back to full strength this morning .


----------



## SBRUSKI

HoundBaby said:


> Looks like WNET is back to full strength this morning .


Peaked at 43 sig strength last night. 32 this morning, Pix is good, Not as good as past. Rain could be the problem.
It's good enough for me.


----------



## perpetualfeast

HoundBaby said:


> Looks like WNET is back to full strength this morning .


Indeed! 🎉 I am also able to tune back in.


----------



## NYC

For about a year I have been able to get most local channels using an indoor antenna, except for WNET 13, WJLP 33 and WMBC 63. Then I was able to tune in WNET and WMBC (I particularly liked the Quest network on .2), now I have again lost those two as well as WABC 7. Anyone know if there are issues with these stations? Also, I have heard that WJLP and CPTV were going to upgrade facilities or equipment but forgot details, does anyone have any updates? Lastly, is there a reliable source of information for which stations use the Empire State Building or the World Trade Center? Thanks in advance for any info!


----------



## KyL416

The list hasn't changed yet from a few pages back:
ESB:
WABC
WPIX
WDVB-CD/WTBY
WFUT/WXTV
WMBC's NYC repeater (They have a pending application to move to 1WTC, but it hasn't been granted yet)

1WTC:
WCBS
WNJU/WNBC
WNYW
WWOR/WRNN
WNET/WNDT-CD/WMBQ-CD (For about two weeks they were at their backup facility at 4TS, but they returned to 1WTC last week)
WLIW
WPXN

4 Times Square:
WNYE
WJLP/WNWT-LD (They have a construction permit to move to 1WTC)

A detailed explanation about the status of WEDW's ESB repeater can be found in posts I made a few pages back:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/new-york-ny-ota.275729/post-60132480
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/new-york-ny-ota.275729/post-60134983


----------



## hancox

I know COVID has impacted this, but anyone else a little surprised we haven't heard about a single ASTC3 channel yet? I would have figured someone would have taken the plunge by now.

Anyone willing to guess? I would have to think that WEDW might be a candidate, given a new buildout, and the fact they have redundant signal in their primary area.


----------



## Antenna Man PA

hancox said:


> I know COVID has impacted this, but anyone else a little surprised we haven't heard about a single ASTC3 channel yet? I would have figured someone would have taken the plunge by now.
> 
> Anyone willing to guess? I would have to think that WEDW might be a candidate, given a new buildout, and the fact they have redundant signal in their primary area.


It's less about COVID and more about the lack of "participating companies" in New York. Other markets have launched ATSC 3.0 because Nexstar, Sinclair, Scripps, and other companies pushing the standard own multiple stations in those markets. In New York the only station owned by one of the "participating companies" is WPIX which is owned by Nexstar's shell corporation Mission Broadcasting. I overheard an executive at CES say they're having trouble getting O&Os on board due to lack of consumer demand, equipment, and the potential impact on retransmission fees. ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox in New York are all O&Os

ATSC 3.0 today is like ATSC 1.0 was in the late 90s. We are still in the very early stages of it launching IF it happens. The transition isn't government mandated like it was in 2009. There's a very small chance it may flop like ATSC-M/H if not enough stations jump on board.


----------



## hancox

Antenna Man PA said:


> It's less about COVID and more about the lack of "participating companies" in New York. Other markets have launched ATSC 3.0 because Nexstar, Sinclair, Scripps, and other companies pushing the standard own multiple stations in those markets. In New York the only station owned by one of the "participating companies" is WPIX which is owned by Nexstar's shell corporation Mission Broadcasting. I overheard an executive at CES say they're having trouble getting O&Os on board due to lack of consumer demand, equipment, and the potential impact on retransmission fees. ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox in New York are all O&Os
> 
> ATSC 3.0 today is like ATSC 1.0 was in the late 90s. We are still in the very early stages of it launching IF it happens. The transition isn't government mandated like it was in 2009. There's a very small chance it may flop like ATSC-M/H if not enough stations jump on board.


Understandable (and good to see you here, I'm a subscriber), but I still wonder. I live in a DMA border town, and Hartford doesn't have anything cooking either. Hartford has at least a couple on the ownership front (although it's moved in and out of scope, but Nexstar is current, at least), and a comparable lack of O&O's (only WVIT, as i recall). 

NY is also attributable to the shared broadcasting sites, i would think. Hartford, less so.


----------



## ansky212

I think ATSC 3.0 falls into the category of "do we really need it"? Even with cord cutting I think the overall percentage of people that watch OTA TV is still really small. Anecdotally, I literally don't know 1 other person other than myself that watches OTA. People who have cancelled cable TV are signing up for services like Youtube TV that carry local channels. Anyway, my point is what incentive do all these networks have to spend money on upgrading all their equipment to 3.0, and then what incentive do viewers have to upgrade all of their equipment to 3.0. ATSC 1.0 has been working just fine for me and I'm satisfied.


----------



## SnellKrell

Beside the many OTA improvements that ATSC 3.0 will provide, many stations will upgrade their production and switching equipment to 4K.

Those 4K signals could then be sent to cable and OTT providers to send viewers higher quality video.

So, 3.0 has much wider positive implications than to just to those watching via OTA!


----------



## mets18

SnellKrell said:


> Beside the many OTA improvements that ATSC 3.0 will provide, many stations will upgrade their production and switching equipment to 4K.
> 
> Those 4K signals could then be sent to cable and OTT providers to send viewers higher quality video.
> 
> So, 3.0 has much wider positive implications than to just to those watching via OTA!


But don't most cable and OTT providers get their local signals via fiber as opposed to OTA?


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, and if a station upgrades to 4K production/switching, they will be able
to feed out, via fiber, 4K to providers.


----------



## mets18

SnellKrell said:


> Yes, and if a station upgrades to 4K production/switching, they will be able
> to feed out, via fiber, 4K to providers.


Agreed but they could do this without the expense of upgrading to ATSC 3.0.


----------



## SnellKrell

ATSC 3.0 will also allow stations to monetize their investment in new/modified OTA. There will be a lot of bandwidth
that stations can use/sell/rent for many purposes - including, but not limited to, mobile reception and competing with telephone and cable companies in a multitude of services.


----------



## Antenna Man PA

ansky212 said:


> I think ATSC 3.0 falls into the category of "do we really need it"? Even with cord cutting I think the overall percentage of people that watch OTA TV is still really small. Anecdotally, I literally don't know 1 other person other than myself that watches OTA. People who have cancelled cable TV are signing up for services like Youtube TV that carry local channels. Anyway, my point is what incentive do all these networks have to spend money on upgrading all their equipment to 3.0, and then what incentive do viewers have to upgrade all of their equipment to 3.0. ATSC 1.0 has been working just fine for me and I'm satisfied.


I thought the same thing. Why would a broadcaster spend tons of money on this new standard that would make their signal easier to access and possibly hurt their retransmission revenue. From a launching standpoint Sinclair is really pushing the standard in markets they own stations because they own patents in it. If ATSC 3.0 takes off and other countries adopt it they will make a lot of money. 

From a broadcaster's perspective the advancement of targeted ads is a huge plus. Instead of one commercial sent to everyone different commercials can be sent out based on data such as a viewers age, location, and viewing habits. This, in turn, will draw in more advertisers. It will help local TV stations compete with companies like Facebook and Google that allow very precise targeted ads. 

Mobile viewing and on demand content is another plus for broadcasters. In China phones used to have analog TV tuners in them. I purchased one right before the digital transition of 2009. Sinclair has a patent on a smart phone with a built in NextGen tuner. Whether that will take off is another story. Nerds like me would love it but I'm not sure if the general public will care to watch live local TV on their phone. They already can do that with Locast. 

ATSC 3.0 allows HEVC codec. This allows a video to take up half the file size compared to H264. Broadcasters can also "double their pipeline" to fit up to four times the channel capacity. That's what Evoca, a paid OTA TV service in Idaho, did. They showed me nine HD and one 4K channel on one single RF frequency. There's talk of broadcasters leasing some "unused spectrum" that isn't filled with diginets to other services. I can see ABC O&O's like WABC offering ESPN or Disney Channel over the air for an additional fee. Of course that opens a can of worms about whether ATSC 3.0 will kill free OTA TV.


----------



## KyL416

Since someone brought up WEDW, the thing is so far no PBS station has volunteered to be an ATSC 3.0 host, and if WEDW were to become an ATSC 3.0 lighthouse, not only would they need to find ATSC 1.0 hosts with similar coverage areas for CPTV's channels, they would also need to find ATSC 1.0 hosts for WZME's channels. (WTXX-LD, who is still sharing WEDW's half of the bandwidth, will eventually be returning to their own Connecticut based LPTV signal, once they leave, 49.1 can go back to HD)

CPTV's primary signal is Connecticut based, plus there's the future ESB DTS signals, so they would need something that not only covers NYC and LI, but also their core viewing area of western and southern Connecticut that the other CPTV signals don't reach. There are no other NYC or Connecticut based signals that cover an area like that.


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> I think ATSC 3.0 falls into the category of "do we really need it"? Even with cord cutting I think the overall percentage of people that watch OTA TV is still really small. Anecdotally, I literally don't know 1 other person other than myself that watches OTA. People who have cancelled cable TV are signing up for services like Youtube TV that carry local channels. Anyway, my point is what incentive do all these networks have to spend money on upgrading all their equipment to 3.0, and then what incentive do viewers have to upgrade all of their equipment to 3.0. ATSC 1.0 has been working just fine for me and I'm satisfied.


ATSC 1.0 has many deficiencies that will be improved upon by ATSC 3.0. Like other posters have said, higher bandwidth capacity, 4K resolution picture, targeted advertising, and the return of mobile television capability are some of the benefits of switching over. Most importantly, more people will be able to receive OTA reception due to better resistance against all types of interference. I would like the "Big Four" and PBS to get totally on board with ATSC 3.0 so the switchover can happen sooner rather than later.

According to Nielsen, about 16% of U.S. households have OTA TV. This is up from about 8% in 2010. If inquiries about OTA on these threads are any indication, that percentage will go up even further. In my opinion, the conversion to ATSC 3.0 will only help matters.


----------



## dstoffa

Antenna Man PA said:


> ATSC 3.0 allows HEVC codec. This allows a video to take up half the file size compared to H264. Broadcasters can also "double their pipeline" to fit up to four times the channel capacity. That's what Evoca, a paid OTA TV service in Idaho, did. They showed me nine HD and one 4K channel on one single RF frequency. There's talk of broadcasters leasing some "unused spectrum" that isn't filled with diginets to other services. I can see ABC O&O's like WABC offering ESPN or Disney Channel over the air for an additional fee. Of course that opens a can of worms about whether ATSC 3.0 will kill free OTA TV.


Once upon a time, less than ten years ago, my cable bill was $11.85 per month. No equipment required. I subscribed to the Starter TV Tier on TWC, and received all the NYC OTA stations, plus a second CBS from Binghamton, WVIA from Scranton, along with ESPN, FX, CNBC, and VH1. Now the video portion of my cable bill is $38 per month. WVIA went away, and when the system went digital, I lost CNBC and VH1, but gained CNN, TNT, Discovery, TWC, and FBN, plus all the Music Choice Channels and all the NYC digi-subnets, which I consider a big win for Starter / Basic Tier programming. The DTA was free for a year, then $1 per month. it's now $8 per month. I think I bought it 10 times over the "failure to return price" Then this thing called the Broadcast TV surcharge started showing up on my bill. It's now north of $12 per month... Programming costs money... I get it. But the surcharge allows a cable company to bury costs in their ads. I digress, and could go on and on and on, but I wont..

Retransmission fees exist because OTA stations must be carried on the lowest cable-TV Tier. A cable subscriber MUST pay for OTA stations (should said stations have a retransmission fee agreement in place with the carrier), whether they need to get then over the cable or not. Big OTA Stations will never elect must carry, for obvious reasons. I always recommend to those who complain when a local TV station is threatened to be blacked out, why not write the station, and ask them "Why are you charging me, a payTV subscriber, for something you are giving away for free to those who use an antenna?" I am sure any letter would get a cricket response.

I made an argument in another board, that the FCC should change the rules in way of Broadcast Basic TV. I proposed, that in order for an OTA station to be carried to all customers on the lowest (Broadcast Basic Tier), they'd need to elect must carry. If they were to negotiate a retransmission fee, they'd need to be sold a-la-carte, like a premium channel.

The rebuttal was, "Do you think that will solve blackout problems?"

My response was, "No. OTA Stations will eventually become teasers for pay TV Channels, and the programming on OTA channels would consist of cheap-to-produce tv shows (talk, reality, etc.), and maybe the first episode or two of a new show (like Star Trek Discovery). The OTA Network would air the first episode or two of a show, then say, "To see the rest... pay...."

Water always seeks its level. Block it here, it will show up there. Paying for content is no different. It's all one big jenga. Pull here, programming shifts there...

ATSC 3.0 may not kill OTA, but it may change the quality of programming available OTA free of charge. Looks like WHT-type stations may be coming back...


----------



## Jay Stone

New sub channel of CBS. 2-4 Fave TV. Just color bars right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MadMan400096

Jay Stone said:


> New sub channel of CBS. 2-4 Fave TV. Just color bars right now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That subchannel's been popping up on CBS O&Os across the country. Nobody knows what it'll be, though.


----------



## SnellKrell

MadMan400096 said:


> That subchannel's been popping up on CBS O&Os across the country. Nobody knows what it'll be, though.


Family And Values Entertainment

Religious based.

Strange choice for ViacomCBS!!!!!!


----------



## KyL416

That's not what it will be. "Family and Values Entertainment" was the name of Sky Angel's long defunct streaming service that barely lasted a year before they folded it 2013. Since Sky Angel also fired most of the staff, the FaveTV.com website was never taken down and is still limping along in a zombie state 7 years later, despite Sky Angel ceasing all operations in 2019. It will probably stay in that zombie state until their webhosting deal ends or their domain expires on 1/4/22 and no one renews it.

No one has been able to figure out what this new "Fave TV" will be, or if it's just a placeholder label since in DC they spotted CBSN on the new .4 channel and in another market a duplicate of Start TV appeared on it.


----------



## SnellKrell

I Googled FAVE TV and that's what came up.

Again, that seemed an odd choice for ViacomCBS.


----------



## fri1038

cbs . com / fave redirects to their all access streaming service so I'll speculate it will be favorite shows from their various cable networks recently added to that service or some similar tie-in.

CBSN on WJZ is running commercial free with occasional promos for the CBSN Los Angeles app, so just filler for now I guess.


----------



## YpsiOTA

fri1038 said:


> cbs . com / fave redirects to their all access streaming service so I'll speculate it will be favorite shows from their various cable networks recently added to that service or some similar tie-in.
> 
> CBSN on WJZ is running commercial free with occasional promos for the CBSN Los Angeles app, so just filler for now I guess.


CBSN would actually be a useful subchannel. One can hope that is what it will be...


----------



## YpsiOTA

Antenna Man PA said:


> It's less about COVID and more about the lack of "participating companies" in New York. Other markets have launched ATSC 3.0 because Nexstar, Sinclair, Scripps, and other companies pushing the standard own multiple stations in those markets. In New York the only station owned by one of the "participating companies" is WPIX which is owned by Nexstar's shell corporation Mission Broadcasting. I overheard an executive at CES say they're having trouble getting O&Os on board due to lack of consumer demand, equipment, and the potential impact on retransmission fees. ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox in New York are all O&Os
> 
> ATSC 3.0 today is like ATSC 1.0 was in the late 90s. We are still in the very early stages of it launching IF it happens. The transition isn't government mandated like it was in 2009. There's a very small chance it may flop like ATSC-M/H if not enough stations jump on board.


ATSC 3.0 just launched on December 7 on WMYD (RF31) in Detroit. It’s a Scripps station. 5 local main channel simulcasts, 3 in 720p and two in 1080i. They immediately announced they are aiming for the onboard automotive media market. So much for the hopes of broadcast 4K HDR. 

It’s all about making money as usual.


----------



## ansky212

YpsiOTA said:


> CBSN would actually be a useful subchannel. One can hope that is what it will be...


I never understood why WCBS doesn't carry WLNY on one of it's 2.x subchannels. That would give WLNY OTA coverage outside of Long Island.


----------



## ansky212

I just rescanned and tuned to WCBS 2.4. They are airing the Jamie Foxx Show and there is a Fave TV logo on the screen. For whatever reason my Fire Recast DVR is pulling in guide information for the H&I network which is obviously incorrect.


----------



## ALP

I am giving up on getting good FOX TV reception with my current antenna. If the sun is shinning I get good enough reception for my for my Magnavox HD DVR's to record FOX ( Channel 5 ). HOWEVER, almost any kind of rain degrades my reception of FOX to the point where it is unwatchable. I do not have this problem with the other 5 main broadcast channels. (If it really rains I lose reception of Channel 11 as well. ) 

I am about 30 miles due north of the midpoint between 1WTC and the ESB. I have an older Winegard yagi that did fine before the repack on 1WTC. It had about 10 dB of gain and I obviously need something with more gain but remeber I am almost there with my current setup. 

Is there any place on the forum were I can find antenna information and/or recommendations? If anyone here has a antenna recommendation please speak up


----------



## KyL416

Post a link to a RabbitEars report for your location.


----------



## Aero 1

2.1 Fave TV is showing Bar Rescue at this moment. Commercials are for other CBS Viacom shows and cable channels


----------



## ALP

KyL416 said:


> Post a link to a RabbitEars report for your location.


*RabbitEars.Info*


----------



## KyL416

It looks like there's a hill in your vicinity that's weakening many of the signals after they bounce off it. Unfortuantely WNYW has one of the weakest signals from the new 1WTC while WNBC and WCBS are much stronger.

Do you know which specific model Winegard Yagi you have? Maybe upgrading it to a larger model with better gain will help overcome the effects of that hill.


----------



## ALP

KyL416 said:


> It looks like there's a hill in your vicinity that's weakening many of the signals after they bounce off it. Unfortuantely WNYW has one of the weakest signals from the new 1WTC while WNBC and WCBS are much stronger.
> 
> Do you know which specific model Winegard Yagi you have? Maybe upgrading it to a larger model with better gain will help overcome the effects of that hill.


I live on the south side of a hill in Pleasantville. I believe I am about 400 feet above sea level and my antenna is about 30 feet above ground level. Remember before the repack on 1WTC I got good reception on all major broadcast channels. 

I have a Winegard 7696P which is no longer in production. It was the second largest Yagi that they made when I bought it in 2012. I inspect it regularly and it is in very good shape. I has about 10 dB of gain so I think I need something with 16 dB or more gain. I think the spread on mine is about 75". I will check to see what Winegard has today and what kind of gain the antennas have.


----------



## KyL416

The terrain profile shows another hill in your vicinity that's around 600 feet tall in the path between NYC and your antenna:




__





RabbitEars.Info






www.rabbitears.info





Before the repack WNYW's RF 44 signal was still coming from the Empire State Building, they didn't move to 1WTC until they signed on their post-repack RF 27 signal. The thing is their signal is weaker than most of the other major channels, plus it's on the lower antenna, so it's more affected by that hill. Their original plan was for a larger signal from the upper antenna, but because of false promises about the capacity of the master UHF antennas from the Durst org that they didn't find out about until the last minute, they had to swtich to the lower antenna with less power.

Only WNJU (and WNBC when they started sharing with them), WWOR (and WRNN), WPXN and WNET moved to 1WTC pre-repack. WCBS, WNYW and WLIW didn't move to 1WTC until after the repack, while WABC, WPIX and WFUT/WXTV still come from the Empire State Building, and WJLP and WNYE come from 4 Times Square.


----------



## KyL416

WJLP update, the move to 1WTC isn't ready yet so they filed for another STA extension and provided a progress update in the explanation:


> Nevertheless, WJLP has made significant progress. As previously stated, the antenna system was partially installed and is now largely installed, and now transmission line and the transmitter are also in place. Meanwhile other, but not all, of the associated equipment is on site awaiting installation, while the electrical work is nearing completion.


However there's no timetable for the completion because some of the final steps involve manufacturer reps doing on site inspections and testing, and some of them are based overseas or out of state and would have to quarantine for 2 weeks before they are allowed to enter 1WTC and then another 2 weeks when they get back home:


> Required quarantines of two weeks, or potentially more, for personnel that fly to New York City from California or England to conduct such inspections and tests, and then further restrictions as they return to home base, are currently not practical for busy manufacturer engineers and other personnel.


----------



## ALP

KyL416 said:


> The terrain profile shows another hill in your vicinity that's around 600 feet tall in the path between NYC and your antenna:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RabbitEars.Info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rabbitears.info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before the repack WNYW's RF 44 signal was still coming from the Empire State Building, they didn't move to 1WTC until they signed on their post-repack RF 27 signal. The thing is their signal is weaker than most of the other major channels, plus it's on the lower antenna, so it's more affected by that hill. Their original plan was for a larger signal from the upper antenna, but because of false promises about the capacity of the master UHF antennas from the Durst org that they didn't find out about until the last minute, they had to swtich to the lower antenna with less power.
> 
> Only WNJU (and WNBC when they started sharing with them), WWOR (and WRNN), WPXN and WNET moved to 1WTC pre-repack. WCBS, WNYW and WLIW didn't move to 1WTC until after the repack, while WABC, WPIX and WFUT/WXTV still come from the Empire State Building, and WJLP and WNYE come from 4 Times Square.


How do I get the terrain map?


----------



## KyL416

I linked to WNYW's terrain profile in my previous reply, for the other stations you can see it by clicking on the transmitter distances on your RabbitEars report.


----------



## MadMan400096

The FCC just approved the Ion deal, so Scripps won't be out of New York for long at all after the WPIX sale finishes.


----------



## Brian in CT

ALP, Graham Hills Park to your south is partially blocking all the signals from 1WTC. Because of that hill, you are in somewhat of a terrain shadow. Luckily, you say your other TV stations are strong enough to get reception. Therefore, more gain should help with your reception of WNYW.

Do you use a preamp? If not, I'd try that route before investing in a new antenna. Since you say you receive WNYW some of the time, a low noise amp with modest gain should do the trick.



ALP said:


> *RabbitEars.Info*


----------



## jrampoldi

5.4 programming changes starting 1/15

Byron Allen’s Light TV Will Transition To ‘TheGrio.TV’ Next Month – Deadline


----------



## SBRUSKI

ALP said:


> *RabbitEars.Info*


Many bad reception stories from Nyack, NY also.
You should consider moving the antenna around the property and try to go higher with the antenna.
Signals are fickle.
Can't get CT broadcast either, I see.
Maybe Locast on the web.





Home - Locast


Locast - Streaming Local Broadcast TV




www.locast.org


----------



## foxycat

*WNET--channel 13.1, NYC area

1--*Anything going on with WNET-13.1? For the past week, it's off most of the time, saying "weak signal." Moving the antenna might work for a minute, then it's off again, or it doesn't work at all. I've rescanned my stations many times. I'm bereft without 13.

*2--*A minor question, not as important as getting WNET back:
My friend who has cable TV asked me how I can get 3 stations on 13.1, 13.2, 13.3, or 21.1, 21.2, 21.3, and I have no explanation for her. I set the remote to 21, for example, then click the channel button UP, and I get 3 different programs. I'm mystified, although I've had it since signals went digital. WLIW comes from Long Island, not 4 different places.


----------



## KyL416

foxycat said:


> My friend who has cable TV asked me how I can get 3 stations on 13.1, 13.2, 13.3, or 21.1, 21.2, 21.3, and I have no explanation for her. I set the remote to 21, for example, then click the channel button UP, and I get 3 different programs. I'm mystified, although I've had it since signals went digital. WLIW comes from Long Island, not 4 different places.


It's called multicasting where one signal carries multiple subchannels. Also WLIW's signal no longer comes from Long Island, they moved to the new 1 World Trade Center during the repack.


----------



## Useeme1234

Any chance we can receive some 4k channels in near future, so many stations testing atsc 3.0
why does NY broadcasters seem to drag their feet.


----------



## mrradiohead55

Useeme1234 said:


> Any chance we can receive some 4k channels in near future, so many stations testing atsc 3.0
> why does NY broadcasters seem to drag their feet.


Doesn't look like any New York broadcasters have submitted an application yet, according to this list-






RabbitEars.Info


RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.




www.rabbitears.info


----------



## LenL

foxycat said:


> *WNET--channel 13.1, NYC area
> 
> 1--*Anything going on with WNET-13.1? For the past week, it's off most of the time, saying "weak signal." Moving the antenna might work for a minute, then it's off again, or it doesn't work at all. I've rescanned my stations many times. I'm bereft without 13.


Don't remember if you have told us where you are located and what antenna you are using. That would be helpful to our making recommendations for you.

I'm in Randolph NJ 30 miles away from 1WTC and so far no issues. There has been very high energy emitted by solar flares from the sun this past week causing some issues. We have also had bad weather on the east coast possibly impacting reception.


----------



## logger-a

foxycat said:


> *2--*A minor question, not as important as getting WNET back:
> My friend who has cable TV asked me how I can get 3 stations on 13.1, 13.2, 13.3, or 21.1, 21.2, 21.3, and I have no explanation for her. I set the remote to 21, for example, then click the channel button UP, and I get 3 different programs. I'm mystified, although I've had it since signals went digital. WLIW comes from Long Island, not 4 different places.


Cable TV tuners and over-the-air TV tuners use different approaches with channel numbers. Cable TV uses a whole number for a channel number. Over-the-air TV uses a two part channel number consisting of pair of whole numbers: a major number (such as 13) and a minor number (such as 1, 2, 3). The major and minor channel numbers are usually written separated by a '.' or '-' character (such as 13.2).

Years ago, when the FCC prohibited cable TV systems from encrypting the channels of the lowest level service tier, the same physical signal present on a cable TV feed could be tuned to by different numbers with a cable TV box and a TV tuner (when the TV tuner had the capability of demodulating the cable TV feed) . A cable TV box might use 33 while the TV tuner might use 13.2 for the same channel.


----------



## Brian in CT

It gets even more complicated than that, Foxycat. With digital television, there are "virtual channels" and "RF channels." For example, WLIW's VC is 21, while their RF channel (the frequency they're actually transmitting on) is 32. Since viewers are more likely to remember a TV station's channel number than the call-sign, broadcasters wanted virtual channels because they thought of them as a way to continue their branding. While most TV viewers are oblivious to all this, OTA viewers need to know RF channels so they end up getting the correct antenna (UHF and/or VHF) for reception.


----------



## KyL416

New WEDW update in their latest tolling request, WJLP's owners filed yet another baseless appeal attempting to get the FCC to recind the grant of WEDW's DTS facility:



> While Licensee’s request for an extension of the original construction permit was pending, PMCM filed an Application for Review of the Letter Order, which the Commission denied on August 11, 2020. PMCM has filed a Notice of Appeal of the AFR Order in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. The final briefs in PMCM’s appeal are due on March 18, 2021.
> 
> Licensee has continued to prepare for construction of the DTS, including filing a minor modification that the Commission approved on September 30, 2020. Due to the uncertainty resulting from the protracted FCC approval process and the pending appeal, however, Licensee has been unable to make the investment necessary to prepare for and construct the DTS authorized in the CP.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> New WEDW update in their latest tolling request, WJLP's owners filed yet another baseless appeal attempting to get the FCC to recind the grant of WEDW's DTS facility:


Does anyone know why WJLP is fighting this so hard? WEDW is a PBS station so it's not like they have competing programming with WJLP. There are 3 other PBS stations in the market that compete for donations and none of them are fighting this.


----------



## Trip in VA

WZME.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> WZME.
> 
> - Trip


What is their issue with WZME? Is it the competition to carry home shopping networks?


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> What is their issue with WZME? Is it the competition to carry home shopping networks?


WZME carried Me TV until a few months after WJLP got the official NYC DMA affiliation. I assume they are worried about losing Me TV back to them when WZME gains a much bigger footprint from their DTS buildout.


----------



## foxycat

LenL said:


> Don't remember if you have told us where you are located and what antenna you are using. That would be helpful to our making recommendations for you.
> 
> I'm in Randolph NJ 30 miles away from 1WTC and so far no issues. There has been very high energy emitted by solar flares from the sun this past week causing some issues. We have also had bad weather on the east coast possibly impacting reception.


(I didn't get my email notification)

Yonkers, NY, just north of the Bronx, antenna Radio Shack 15-1634 indoors on window sill. I've had very few problems with WNET-13 for the 20 or so years I've been using the antenna, even before the digital changeover. This just happened last week. Yesterday it was fine and today it's gone again.


----------



## foxycat

logger-a said:


> Cable TV tuners and over-the-air TV tuners use different approaches with channel numbers. Cable TV uses a whole number for a channel number. Over-the-air TV uses a two part channel number consisting of pair of whole numbers: a major number (such as 13) and a minor number (such as 1, 2, 3). The major and minor channel numbers are usually written separated by a '.' or '-' character (such as 13.2).
> 
> Years ago, when the FCC prohibited cable TV systems from encrypting the channels of the lowest level service tier, the same physical signal present on a cable TV feed could be tuned to by different numbers with a cable TV box and a TV tuner (when the TV tuner had the capability of demodulating the cable TV feed) . A cable TV box might use 33 while the TV tuner might use 13.2 for the same channel.


You missed my point. That doesn't explain how, WLIW, for example, can broadcast 3 completely different programs from the same channel.


----------



## KyL416

It's was mentioned in my reply to you:


KyL416 said:


> It's called multicasting where one signal carries multiple subchannels. Also WLIW's signal no longer comes from Long Island, they moved to the new 1 World Trade Center during the repack.


If you want a more detailed explanation: an ATSC signal contains around 18 Mbps worth of data, with a decent encoder you only need to consume about 1-3 Mbps for a SD channel and about 6-10 Mbps of data for a HD channel, so stations can divide that 18 Mbps of data up to carry multiple subchannels via multicasting. It's something ATSC stations have been doing almost since the beginning of digital broadcasting in the late 90s. (i.e. back in the really early days of ATSC, in addition to a SD simulcast of their analog channel, many PBS stations also carried the national PBS HD feed, an educational channel called PBS You, and the original incarnation of the PBS Kids channel that eventually went pay TV only as Sprout and is now Universal Kids)

In WLIW's case, they now broadcast 4 subchannels from their RF 32 signal at the new 1 World Trade Center: 21.1 WLIW HD, 21.2 Create SD, 21.3 World SD, 21.4 All Arts HD.

And to make things even more confusing, WNET's RF 12 signal now carries 4 channels too, but 2 of them are tied to the licenses of Class A (CD) stations that were donated to WNET by their previous owners during the spectrum auction and are now spectrum sharing on WNET's RF 12 signal, so they have different major numbers:
13.1 Thirteen HD, 13.2 PBS Kids SD, 14.1 FNX HD via WNDT-CD, 46.1 FNX SD via WMBQ-CD.

On cable though, they don't use subchannel numbering, so for example on Optimum's Long Island system, they have Thirteen on 13, WLIW on 21, PBS Kids on 131, World on 132, Create on 133, and All Arts on 144, and for cable card devices Thirteen HD is on 713 and WLIW HD is on 721. FNX isn't carried at all since Class A stations can't use must carry status to get on cable lineups.


----------



## NYC

Fox shuts off Light TV, theGrio.TV will launch on 5.4 by mid January.


----------



## KyL416

WNYW dropped LightTV at the beginning of December when they replaced it with dead air.

MGM sold ThisTV and LightTV to Byron Allen's Entertainment Studios earlier this year and they're rebranding Light TV to The Grio on January 15th. So all of the Fox O&O's stopped carrying Light TV at the start of this month, and depending on the station either replaced it with dead air, a test pattern or a Grio TV coming soon slide.


----------



## logger-a

foxycat said:


> You missed my point. That doesn't explain how, WLIW, for example, can broadcast 3 completely different programs from the same channel.


KyL416 provided an answer. A short version is that digital TV signals are able to contain multiple programs in the same RF channel. That is done not only by over-the-air stations but also by cable TV systems.

Cable boxes and over-the-air TV tuners use different approaches to map the "channel number" that the cable box or TV tuner is set to digital video and audio streams being transmitted.


----------



## foxycat

KyL416 said:


> It's was mentioned in my reply to you:
> 
> If you want a more detailed explanation: an ATSC signal contains around 18 Mbps worth of data, with a decent encoder you only need to consume about 1-3 Mbps for a SD channel and about 6-10 Mbps of data for a HD channel, so stations can divide that 18 Mbps of data up to carry multiple subchannels via multicasting. It's something ATSC stations have been doing almost since the beginning of digital broadcasting in the late 90s. (i.e. back in the really early days of ATSC, in addition to a SD simulcast of their analog channel, many PBS stations also carried the national PBS HD feed, an educational channel called PBS You, and the original incarnation of the PBS Kids channel that eventually went pay TV only as Sprout and is now Universal Kids)
> 
> In WLIW's case, they now broadcast 4 subchannels from their RF 32 signal at the new 1 World Trade Center: 21.1 WLIW HD, 21.2 Create SD, 21.3 World SD, 21.4 All Arts HD.
> 
> And to make things even more confusing, WNET's RF 12 signal now carries 4 channels too, but 2 of them are tied to the licenses of Class A (CD) stations that were donated to WNET by their previous owners during the spectrum auction and are now spectrum sharing on WNET's RF 12 signal, so they have different major numbers:
> 13.1 Thirteen HD, 13.2 PBS Kids SD, 14.1 FNX HD via WNDT-CD, 46.1 FNX SD via WMBQ-CD.
> 
> On cable though, they don't use subchannel numbering, so for example on Optimum's Long Island system, they have Thirteen on 13, WLIW on 21, PBS Kids on 131, World on 132, Create on 133, and All Arts on 144, and for cable card devices Thirteen HD is on 713 and WLIW HD is on 721. FNX isn't carried at all since Class A stations can't use must carry status to get on cable lineups.


Thanks, it was a bit too abstract for me. I'll send my friend your reply the essence of your reply.


LenL said:


> Don't remember if you have told us where you are located and what antenna you are using. That would be helpful to our making recommendations for you.
> 
> I'm in Randolph NJ 30 miles away from 1WTC and so far no issues. There has been very high energy emitted by solar flares from the sun this past week causing some issues. We have also had bad weather on the east coast possibly impacting reception.



I still can't get in WNET-13.The bad weather is long since gone. How about the solar flares? 13 is the majority of my TV watching :-( My stats are in my sig.


----------



## Brian in CT

foxycat said:


> I still can't get in WNET-13.The bad weather is long since gone. How about the solar flares? 13 is the majority of my TV watching :-( My stats are in my sig.


Two thoughts. First, that antenna of yours has a 20 dB amp that could be overamplifying WNET, causing it to drop out. I believe they raised their power when the station moved to RF channel 12, so it's a possibility. On the other hand, that amp might be "on the fritz" after all these years. Overall, those type of Radio Shack antennas worked well with analog signals, but not so much with today's temperamental ATSC 1.0 ones.

Secondly, some type of RFI may be causing WNET to drop out. Did you or a close by neighbor install cheap LED lights, a power inverter, a security camera, or some other gadget near your antenna? These type of gizmos can cause interference to VHF reception. Next time WNET drops out, check WPIX to see if their signal strength goes down also. If WPIX on RF 11 is also affected, this could be the answer.


----------



## LenL

foxycat said:


> Thanks, it was a bit too abstract for me. I'll send my friend your reply the essence of your reply.
> 
> 
> 
> I still can't get in WNET-13.The bad weather is long since gone. How about the solar flares? 13 is the majority of my TV watching :-( My stats are in my sig.



Your stats don't really give enough info. We still need more info. You only scratched the surface.

Like what floor are you on?
You are 16 mile out using an indoor antenna that is not a really good one for being indoors on a windowsill.

What is the antenna facing? Does it have a clear line of sight to 1WTC? Are their other high rise buildings between you and 1WTC? What about cell towers and other obstructions between you and 1WTC.?

Are there buildings or fixtures with LEDS on between you and 1WTC?

Also if the tennants the floor above or below the window where you have the antenna are using LED lights or an LED TV it will impact your reception.


----------



## foxycat

LenL said:


> Your stats don't really give enough info. We still need more info. You only scratched the surface.
> 
> Like what floor are you on?
> You are 16 mile out using an indoor antenna that is not a really good one for being indoors on a windowsill.
> 
> What is the antenna facing? Does it have a clear line of sight to 1WTC? Are their other high rise buildings between you and 1WTC? What about cell towers and other obstructions between you and 1WTC.?
> 
> Are there buildings or fixtures with LEDS on between you and 1WTC?
> 
> Also if the tennants the floor above or below the window where you have the antenna are using LED lights or an LED TV it will impact your reception.


I've been using the same antenna for 19 years. After 9/11, the management stopped maintaining the master antenna on the roof. I get 53 channels on my antenna, although I don't watch all of them.

And of course there are buildings between me and the WTC, all of the Bronx and all of Manhattan. How would I know if any of them have LED lights? But the most useful suggestion is that it could be LED's of people below me or above me. Are LED's a known issue with antennas?

Yesterday 13 came back with some pixelation, then it cleared. Tonight it was pixelating again, and it goes off completely if I stand near the antenna.


----------



## LenL

LEDS will impact the VHF band which will be 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1 (and their sub channels). When I would turn on my computer I would lose those. Why you ask? Well my computer was on the second floor on a desk facing an outside wall. On the other side of the wall was my antenna. The LCD Monitor was the problem.

The other issue I had was my neighbor installed LED patio lights which were only about 30 feet from my antenna. Whenever they came on I lost reception for those stations even though my antenna was 30 feet higher. That was resolved by talking with him and the company that produced the patio lights and they sent him replacements with a different LED transformer. That solved that issue.

So yes LEDs are a problem for the VHF channels.


----------



## McShadyPL

KyL416 said:


> WNYW dropped LightTV at the beginning of December when they replaced it with dead air.
> 
> MGM sold ThisTV and LightTV to Byron Allen's Entertainment Studios earlier this year and they're rebranding Light TV to The Grio on January 15th. So all of the Fox O&O's stopped carrying Light TV at the start of this month, and depending on the station either replaced it with dead air, a test pattern or a Grio TV coming soon slide.


Based on this information, is there any indication that ThisTV will return to some of those major TV markets that lost it? I know it's still available on 55.4, but the signal is barely accessible in much of Manhattan.


----------



## NYC

I would like to see ThisTV on a NYC station as well, especially since the Laff network is on two stations. Also with a pending sale of ION stations it is possible that the new owners might want to carry their own networks leading to more duplicates.


----------



## David1014

Tv in NYC is a joke,too many duplicates,unviewable stations,some still has to move or share,it's a messy tv world out here, especially when they say they're NYC market and you have to live near them to see them otherwise we're out of luck.


----------



## KyL416

Since NYC is sky scraper central, putting the main signals on a farm in LI would block reception in New Jersey and the west side, while having the towers in the swamps of New Jersey would block reception on Long Island and the east side, so Empire, 1WTC and 4 Times Square are the 3 central locations. Unfortunately the sky scrapers also create a cavern effect for for viewers in Manhattan unless you're lucky enough to have a sweet spot to place your antenna or a building with a master rooftop antenna. This isn't a new issue, it's been a problem since the analog era and was the reason why Manhattan first got cable in the 60s with the original marketing message that it provided ghost free reception of the locals, while the outer boroughs didn't get cable until the 80s when they started offering more than just OTA channels over cable, and many of the major VHF stations initially had UHF translators in the 70-83 range after the twin towers were built. That same ghosting from the analog era translates to multipath interference in the digital era and has been an ongoing problem since the DTV stations originally signed on from the North Tower in the late 90s/early 00s.

Even though it's been almost 20 years since the bulk of the TV and FM stations lost their main facility, those who wanted to return to 1WTC weren't able to do so until 2019. (To this day WPAT 93.1 is still operating from a series of STAs and is technically licensed to the North Tower) And of course due to false promises about the capacity of the shared master antennas from the Durst organization, WNYW had to settle for a signal smaller than WNBC or WCBS. Also, after they realized how long it would take to complete a new WTC, the area stations wanted to build a tall 2000+ feet tower on governor's island which would be tall enough to get over the skyscrapers and would have had things return to normal much sooner, but a bunch of NIMBY's blocked that move.

The duplicates of networks like Laff and Court TV are only temporary until their deals expire. Once WJLP (Laff, Mystery, CourtTV, Grit), WABC (Laff), WPIX (CourtTV), WXTV (Bounce) and WFTY's (Mystery and Grit) deals for the Katz networks expire, those networks will only be available via WPXN.

WPIX has a pending application to increase their power after the application freeze was lifted at the end of November.

WJLP is in the process of moving from 4 Times Square to the new 1WTC but as mentioned a few pages ago, they need manufacturer reps based in California and overseas to do a visual inspection and testing, but quarantining for 2 weeks before they can enter 1WTC, and quarantining for another 2 weeks when they get back home would take those engineers out of commission for almost a month for a project that would normally be less than a week. And in some countries like Australia, those engineers would have to pay out of pocket for their mandatory hotel quarantine when they're ready to go back home.

WFUT/WXTV's issue is the need to install scaffolding to protect pedestrians from falling debris while the work is going on. That's another drawback to NYC, instead of a tower farm like Philly has, our signals are on top of sky skyscrappers in high pedestrian traffic areas, so scaffolding is required for a project like that, and they can't construct the scaffolding until the NYPD finishes their project of installing pedestrian protection barriers around sensitive targets like the Empire State building to prevent car attacks.

WEDW/WZME's issue is not their fault, blame WJLP's owners who are perfectly fine with exploiting a loophole to move a station from Nevada to New Jersey and have a signal based in Manhattan, but then turn around and want to block stations who were always based in the Connecticut portion of the DMA from adding a signal to Manhattan to improve their coverage.


The numerous NYC area LPTV stations are affected by multiple things. The stations in the 38-51 range had to go off air once T-Mobile wanted to launch 5G services in NYC, the others had to go off air once the repack gave their frequency to another full power or class A station. And since tower crews are already stretched thin becuase of the repack, LPTV stations are at the bottom of the queue for their tower work. Covid didn't help things either, since it delayed equipment shipments and prevented the crews based in Europe, Australia and South America who were going to pick up the slack from entering the country.


----------



## NYC

Just noticed that 2.4 FAVE TV has launched.


----------



## KyL416

It launched back in December. Like mentioned before and in some other threads, it's basically a best of Viacom CBS channel with programming from MTV, VH1, BET, CMT, Spike/Paramount and Smithsonian.


----------



## pabuwal

KyL416 said:


> WPIX has a pending application to increase their power after the application freeze was lifted at the end of November.


Once an application is approved, would WPIX have to do any work to increase power or is it a simple matter along the lines of flipping a switch?


----------



## bobbino421

Hey guys don’t know much about OTA.
But I have a question? I’m looking into getting another TV in the near future and supposedly it will have the new 3.0 tuner?
Is 3.0 up and running? What does this mean for OTA broadcasting, will we be getting 4K HDR OTA anytime soon? I know some major channels are still stuck on 720P which is ridiculous.


----------



## hancox

bobbino421 said:


> Hey guys don’t know much about OTA.
> But I have a question? I’m looking into getting another TV in the near future and supposedly it will have the new 3.0 tuner?
> Is 3.0 up and running? What does this mean for OTA broadcasting, will we be getting 4K HDR OTA anytime soon? I know some major channels are still stuck on 720P which is ridiculous.


No 3.0 in the NYC DMA, and nothing really on the horizon.

As for 4K on ASTC 3.0, no sign of that either, yet. The markets that have 3.0 test channels up are a mishmosh of 1080p and 1080i, along with SD, for the most part.


----------



## Trip in VA

pabuwal said:


> Once an application is approved, would WPIX have to do any work to increase power or is it a simple matter along the lines of flipping a switch?


It depends on what equipment they have. If their existing transmitter can make the power, then they could adjust a setting on it and put out more power. While not impossible, I do find that unlikely, and suspect they will probably need to upgrade the transmitter to put out more power. (I have no inside knowledge.)

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

David1014 said:


> Tv in NYC is a joke,too many duplicates,unviewable stations,some still has to move or share,it's a messy tv world out here, especially when they say they're NYC market and you have to live near them to see them otherwise we're out of luck.


As with anything OTA, it all depends on location. I happen to be in a sweet spot in NJ, 10 miles outside the city facing Manhattan. TV signals are so strong here I can pull in a couple channels without even having an antenna plugged into my coax jack.


----------



## Brian in CT

bobbino421 said:


> Hey guys don’t know much about OTA.
> But I have a question? I’m looking into getting another TV in the near future and supposedly it will have the new 3.0 tuner?
> Is 3.0 up and running? What does this mean for OTA broadcasting, will we be getting 4K HDR OTA anytime soon? I know some major channels are still stuck on 720P which is ridiculous.


If you want to keep up to date on ATSC 3.0 broadcasting in the USA, try going to www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=atsc3. This section of RabbitEars keeps track of ATSC 3.0 TV stations that are on-the-air or planning to go on.


----------



## foxycat

LenL said:


> LEDS will impact the VHF band which will be 7.1, 11.1 and 13.1 (and their sub channels). When I would turn on my computer I would lose those. Why you ask? Well my computer was on the second floor on a desk facing an outside wall. On the other side of the wall was my antenna. The LCD Monitor was the problem.
> 
> The other issue I had was my neighbor installed LED patio lights which were only about 30 feet from my antenna. Whenever they came on I lost reception for those stations even though my antenna was 30 feet higher. That was resolved by talking with him and the company that produced the patio lights and they sent him replacements with a different LED transformer. That solved that issue.
> 
> So yes LEDs are a problem for the VHF channels.



Eventually WNET came back. I live in a bldg. with 88 apts, so I don't know if my neighbors have LED lamps. I have an LED lamp not far from the TV, but turning it off didn't help. And yes, I have 2 computers, each 10' from my TV, but they've been there for years. I have the same lamp and 2 computers there now, with no side effects. What's the connection between LCD and LED? Are they the same?


----------



## LenL

From the internet:

Despite having a different acronym, LED TV is just a specific type of LCD TV, which uses a liquid crystal display (LCD) panel to control where light is displayed on your screen. These panels are typically composed of two sheets of polarizing material with a liquid crystal solution between them. When an electric current passes through the liquid, it causes the crystals to align, so that light can (or can’t) pass through. Think of it as a shutter, either allowing light to pass through or blocking it out. 

Since both LED and LCD TVs are based around LCD technology, the question remains: what _is_ the difference? Actually, it’s about what the difference _was_. Older LCD TVs used cold cathode fluorescent lamps (CCFLs) to provide lighting, whereas LED LCD TVs used an array of smaller, more efficient light-emitting diodes (LEDs) to illuminate the screen.

Since the technology is better, all LCD TVs now use LED lights and are colloquially considered LED TVs.


----------



## LenL

If they were a few feet from your indoor antenna those computers might have an impact.


----------



## cgott42

Which HD OTA antenna would you recommend (hopefully ATSC 3.0 ready) to place in the basement. I'm <35mi from towers. and don't have many placement options so it shouldn't be too finicky.
I'm looking to connect to an Windows based HTPC based DVR (HDHomerun? tuner + Channels and/or Plex software)
So I'm looking cut the cable cord and for consistent reception (don't want to record the football and find out that the last 2 minutes didn't get reception)
Mainly to get watch live sports (thus CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, and perhaps PBS for my son)
I do have access to a windows facing south (direction of antennas), however being in the basement it's ground level, with the neighbor's house approx. 50-80 feet away
thx


----------



## Ratman

Indoor antennas are finicky.
Basement placement  is even worse.
Good luck.

FYI:
AFAIK, an antenna that worked 60 years ago is ATSC3 ready.


----------



## cgott42

I'm looking to cut the cord, and definately don't want finicky (especially when DVR'ing to come back and find it didn't record).
Are there any that are known to be better for this type of setting and worth trying? or is it doomed to fail/lead to nothing but frustration?


----------



## gbynum

@Ratman gave good info ... all I'll add is to take your set (what brand/model?) and borrow one to try. Depends on too much. A window facing the transmitter's antenna will be a huge help.

Further, read the sticky threads, especially the one that says read before posting. If we have the information requested, we can be of much more help.


----------



## cgott42

gbynum said:


> @Ratman gave good info ... all I'll add is to take your set (what brand/model?) and borrow one to try. Depends on too much. A window facing the transmitter's antenna will be a huge help.
> 
> Further, read the sticky threads, especially the one that says read before posting. If we have the information requested, we can be of much more help.


I read the post and added info the OP. 
I don't have access to one to test, though could buy one that's returnable
So looking to know what's the best bet to try.


----------



## Casey Hartman

I'm very happy with using a HDHomeRun for a tuner and streaming OTA signals to my TV and MacBook. Over Christmas I setup a Tablo at my mom's house that works good too; the Tablo app has a better interface but it doesn't accept number key inputs and isn't compatible with the Live Channels app. Both are good options as a network tuner and to record programs.

I've had good success with Antennas Direct 2Max and Televes DINOVA Boss inside my condo, but a basement unit might prove to be more difficult, especially VHF channels.

Go to RabbitEars.info to see a report of potential stations, direction, distance, signal strength, etc. and post the link to the report.


----------



## ansky212

Indoor antennas will never perform as well as outdoor antennas, particularly on VHF (WABC, WPIX, WNET, WJLP). For DVR purposes I use the Fire Recast from Amazon (4-tuner model) and it works very well.


----------



## Brian in CT

cgott42 said:


> I'm looking to cut the cord, and definitely don't want finicky (especially when DVR'ing to come back and find it didn't record).


At over 30 miles from 1WTC, you'll need something better than a rudimentary rabbit ears & loop combo to receive all the major NYC TV stations. You may need a moderate sized antenna at that distance. No way a basement antenna of any size will do anything. An attic installation would be better than blocking a window with an antenna, though. If your house is wood frame, you won't lose much signal strength if the antenna could be placed there.

Go here: www.rabbitears.info and use the "Signal Search Map" tool. Remember to input the correct antenna height AGL. Post the results to this thread so we can make suggestions.


----------



## KyL416

WFUT/WXTV update, instead of installing a new antenna at Empire, they filed to increase their power from 195 kW to 215 kW on the current ESB master antenna and make it their final facility.


> Pursuant to an alternative plan discussed with Commission staff, the Station has executed a new lease arrangement with the Building, which will allow the Station to modify its current facilities in order to use them as the Station’s permanent post-auction facilities.


----------



## Trip in VA

KyL416 said:


> WFUT/WXTV update, instead of installing a new antenna at Empire, they filed to increase their power from 195 kW to 215 kW on the current ESB master antenna and make it their final facility.


Don't be too surprised/alarmed when you see it withdrawn/dismissed and refiled in the coming days. It appears that they submitted it on the wrong form, which will need to be corrected.

- Trip


----------



## Rieper

Anyone else (newcomers to OTA HDTV) addicted to channel 63-2 aka QUEST??? I love this channel soo much I could literally watch it 24/7 

Imagine a channel that shows 2 HOUR EPISODES BACK TO BACK of American Restoration in the afternoon, then Storage Wars, then Shipping Wars, then Ice Road Truckers and wraps it up with Axe Men which ends @ 3AM. And then what follows? Prepaid commercials @ 2AM-7PM you say? NOOOO! Their lineup switches to MOST DARING for those late nights you cant sleep and keeps you company throughout the nite. My only complaint is its NOT available on Verizon FIOS cable network. For now it seems, its only shown OTA with Antenna.


----------



## SBRUSKI

Rieper said:


> Anyone else (newcomers to OTA HDTV) addicted to channel 63-2 aka QUEST??? I love this channel soo much I could literally watch it 24/7
> 
> Imagine a channel that shows 2 HOUR EPISODES BACK TO BACK of American Restoration in the afternoon, then Storage Wars, then Shipping Wars, then Ice Road Truckers and wraps it up with Axe Men which ends @ 3AM. And then what follows? Prepaid commercials @ 2AM-7PM you say? NOOOO! Their lineup switches to MOST DARING for those late nights you cant sleep and keeps you company throughout the nite. My only complaint is its NOT available on Verizon FIOS cable network. For now it seems, its only shown OTA with Antenna.


Thanks for the heads up. Didn't know about it.
We need more good stuff for OTA.


----------



## MeatChicken

I've been getting a 9.9 subchannel for at least , the past month or so... At a place I visit on the weekends in SW Nassau County ...
It usually shows a static image / slide of things like the word Movies! , with a popcorn graphic or somesuch ...
I'm at work now but if I recall correctly, the id that the TV comes up with next to the 9.9, is something like WO9CX! ( I'm pretty sure of the WO9 part, I remember it's not WOR, but WO9..
Anyone have info?? I had googled the ID at the time with no luck ...


----------



## Trip in VA

Probably W09CZ-D. Any idea what network programming it's running? (And it shouldn't be using virtual channel 9 in any event.)

- Trip


----------



## MeatChicken

Trip in VA said:


> Probably W09CZ-D. Any idea what network programming it's running? (And it shouldn't be using virtual channel 9 in any event.)
> 
> - Trip


That sounds like it's probably it .... As mentioned, I've only seen these "stills" so far when I tune to it ...
The signal is weak, it is viewable about 75-80% of the time, so I knew it wasn't a sub of WWOR, but it IS on ch 9.9 ...
I'll be there again this weekend and check out more ...


----------



## ansky212

MeatChicken said:


> That sounds like it's probably it .... As mentioned, I've only seen these "stills" so far when I tune to it ...
> The signal is weak, it is viewable about 75-80% of the time, so I knew it wasn't a sub of WWOR, but it IS on ch 9.9 ...
> I'll be there again this weekend and check out more ...


I just looked at the coverage map and it looks like this channel mostly covers Brooklyn and Queens, so in SW Nassau you're right on the fringe of the coverage area.


----------



## ansky212

Has anyone else noticed very poor picture quality on WNYW during Fox primetime programming lately? It has gotten really bad in the past week. The picture looks overly compressed and there is even a shimmer/flicker. What's interesting is that it only happens during actual programming, and does not happen during commercials or live programs like local news. I see this problem on multiple devices and TV's so I know it's not an equipment issue on my end.


----------



## pabuwal

ansky212 said:


> Has anyone else noticed very poor picture quality on WNYW during Fox primetime programming lately? It has gotten really bad in the past week. The picture looks overly compressed and there is even a shimmer/flicker. What's interesting is that it only happens during actual programming, and does not happen during commercials or live programs like local news. I see this problem on multiple devices and TV's so I know it's not an equipment issue on my end.


I think it's always been this way. Something about a number of Fox O&O using an antiquated distribution system. Other independent Fox affiliates (like Seattle) don't have this issue. Someone can probably explain further.


----------



## speedlaw

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.....but is there any information - ETA of ATSC 3.0 transmissions in the NYC DMA ? I actually saw 4k TV in Japan last year....and while my Panasonic Plasma lives, don't see a need to replace anything until 4k is OTA.....TIA


----------



## jrampoldi

speedlaw said:


> Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.....but is there any information - ETA of ATSC 3.0 transmissions in the NYC DMA ? I actually saw 4k TV in Japan last year....and while my Panasonic Plasma lives, don't see a need to replace anything until 4k is OTA.....TIA


*COMING FALL 2021*
Watch NextGenTV | The Future of Television has Arrived

I am also still using my Panasonic plasma


----------



## speedlaw

jrampoldi said:


> *COMING FALL 2021*
> Watch NextGenTV | The Future of Television has Arrived
> 
> I am also still using my Panasonic plasma


Got it. I just hope there is some sort of sound out provision, as right now, I don't want to have to replace my Sony pro install line receiver, which won't pass 4k, so I hope they at least allow out sound by optic link or sound only HDMI. Until now there hasn't been enough 4k to justify this...and we don't even get uncompressed 1080 any more unless on a blu disc.


----------



## speedlaw

speedlaw said:


> Got it. I just hope there is some sort of sound out provision, as right now, I don't want to have to replace my otherwise excellent Sony professional line receiver, which won't pass 4k, so I hope they at least allow out sound by optic link or sound only HDMI. Until now there hasn't been enough 4k to justify this...and we don't even get uncompressed 1080 any more unless on a blu disc.


----------



## joblo

speedlaw said:


> Got it. I just hope there is some sort of sound out provision, as right now, I don't want to have to replace my Sony pro install line receiver, which won't pass 4k, so I hope they at least allow out sound by optic link or sound only HDMI. Until now there hasn't been enough 4k to justify this...


And NextGenTV will not change that any time soon. Although it is capable of transmitting 4K, except for one low power subscription channel in Idaho, nobody is actually using that capability yet, nor are there any announced plans to do so. So your current equipment is not about to become obsolete.

Most of the hype about NextGenTV, aka ATSC 3.0, or just 3.0, is, so far, just that, not reality.


----------



## KyL416

A new Tegna owned network for women called Twist is coming to one of the Univision signals in the NYC DMA this spring.

Considering how saturated WFUT/WXTV already is because of spectrum sharing, I wonder if Scripps struck an early exit deal with Univision so they can move some of the Katz networks like Bounce to WPXN prior to 2024, or if another network will be leaving.


----------



## MadMan400096

After taking a look at areas with legacy Ion stations, it doesn't look like all of Katz's deals with Univision were exclusive. After all, WJLP has most of the Katz networks despite them already being available elsewhere in the DMA, while Laff is still on most of ABC's O&Os, and it may stay that way until Disney A) cuts a deal to distribute another diginet, or B) just turns off those subchannels so that the remaining two can run in better quality. After all, WLS dropped Laff when the spectrum auction led to them taking on one of Univision's stations there.


----------



## KyL416

Scripps is shutting down Qubo, Ion Plus and Ion Shop on March 1st as part of their plan to make the Ion stations to home to all the Katz networks. WPXN will have Grit on 31.2, Mystery on 31.3, CourtTV on 31.4 and Laff will continue on 31.5.

As of now Bounce will still only be available via WXTV 41.2.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Scripps is shutting down Qubo, Ion Plus and Ion Shop on March 1st as part of their plan to make the Ion stations to home to all the Katz networks. WPXN will have Grit on 31.2, Mystery on 31.3, CourtTV on 31.4 and Laff will continue on 31.5.


Is WJLP still going to carry those networks too?


----------



## KyL416

Their schedule as of now still shows Grit, Laff and Mystery. But back at the end of January they replaced 33.6 CourtTV with Heartland.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Their schedule as of now still shows Grit, Laff and Mystery. But back at the end of January they replaced 33.6 CourtTV with Heartland.


I just noticed Heartland this past weekend. Seems like an odd network to carry in the NYC area, but I guess they are just trying to fill these subchannels with whatever programming they can find.


----------



## MeatChicken

Trip in VA said:


> Probably W09CZ-D. Any idea what network programming it's running? (And it shouldn't be using virtual channel 9 in any event.)
> 
> - Trip


 I checked it out again this weekend ...
It's on 9.9, and it was showing an image/illustration of a hot air balloon, that, kind of, like a screen saver, would appear at different places on the screen every few seconds..


----------



## KyL416

WASA-LD filed for another STA extension to remain silent until WKOB-LD builds out their shared facility on RF 13. In the exhibit they say they expect it to be ready June 30th.


----------



## ansky212

Has there been any recent update on the WEDW situation?


----------



## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> Has there been any recent update on the WEDW situation?


Nothing useful. The FCC has filed a brief to the appeal that PMCM has made to the United States Court of Appeals concerning the FCC granting the application by Connecticut Public Broadcasting to build a distribution transmission system. As far as I can tell, PMCM has not yet filed their brief.


----------



## KyL416

That's not the only bogus objection PMCM is doing. The HSN owned W41DO-D is being sold to Major Market Broadcasting, who owns a bunch of LPTV stations. In the filing they mentioned PMCM objected to their displacement application to move to RF 33 with the bogus claim that somehow they have the rights to RF 33 in the NYC market because they have virtual 33. Even though up until the repack WCBS was on RF 33 and there's other examples like WNYE where RF 25 was previously used by WASA-LD until WWOR got it. Not to mention because of WQPX, WCCT and WPSG, there's no way WJLP could even make an allotment request to move to 33.

Hopefully when this is settled, PMCM will be forced to pay all of WEDW's, WZME's and W41DO's legal fees and compensate them for the lost OTA coverage for the past few years while their baseless objections and appeals were going through the courts.


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Does anyone know if the analog repeater of WLNY is still on the air? What were the call letters? I'm making a part two of "Analog TV Stations Still on the Air in 2021."


----------



## Useeme1234

Hey antenna man watch your vids on yt, very concise info, luv it..


----------



## KyL416

Antenna Man PA said:


> Does anyone know if the analog repeater of WLNY is still on the air? What were the call letters?


WLIG-LP:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/public/tv/publicFacilityDetails.html?facilityId=9378

This is their coverage area:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...pplicationId=d439aae0a9d3403b9e62cf6212b6c0ea
Basically it's a tiny radius between exits 48 and 50 of the LIE from their mostly vacant studio on the south service road off of exit 49S.


----------



## Antenna Man PA

KyL416 said:


> WLIG-LP:
> https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/public/tv/publicFacilityDetails.html?facilityId=9378
> 
> This is their coverage area:
> https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...pplicationId=d439aae0a9d3403b9e62cf6212b6c0ea
> Basically it's a tiny radius between exits 48 and 50 of the LIE from their mostly vacant studio on the south service road off of exit 49S.


Thanks! I'll see if I can contact their engineer since I doubt many on this thread are within receiving range of it.


----------



## drabina

Came here for help.

Here is my RabbitEars report:
RabbitEars report

I also just purchased the Winegard Classic Series Yagi YA7000C antenna (link).

My question is: Do I need the low VHF extensions? I just need access to the basic channels like CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX, ABC, CW (WPIX). Don't care about the rest of the channels on the report. I am asking because with those extensions, the antenna is huge and attached to the side of the house will look weird. So if I do not need them for the channels I am interested in, I would just take them off.

Thanks


----------



## LenL

My opinion is YOU DO NOT need them. They are for VHF Lo band.


----------



## drabina

LenL said:


> My opinion is YOU DO NOT need them. They are for VHF Lo band.


Thank you


----------



## ansky212

drabina said:


> Came here for help.
> 
> Here is my RabbitEars report:
> RabbitEars report
> 
> I also just purchased the Winegard Classic Series Yagi YA7000C antenna (link).
> 
> My question is: Do I need the low VHF extensions? I just need access to the basic channels like CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX, ABC, CW (WPIX). Don't care about the rest of the channels on the report. I am asking because with those extensions, the antenna is huge and attached to the side of the house will look weird. So if I do not need them for the channels I am interested in, I would just take them off.
> 
> Thanks


The only full power station in NYC that is using VHF-Lo is WJLP (RF 3) which carries Me TV and a few other networks. If you don't care about that channel then you should be fine. Where I live the WJLP signal is strong enough that I can pull it in clearly anyway without any VHF-Lo elements.


----------



## KyL416

The ABC O&Os are replacing Laff with ThisTV tomorrow. Also, WABC was testing HSN on 7.4


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> The ABC O&Os are replacing Laff with ThisTV tomorrow. Also, WABC was testing HSN on 7.4


I can confirm This TV is now live on WABC 7.3. Laff is available on WPXN 31.5 and WJLP 33.2.


----------



## KyL416

KyL416 said:


> A new Tegna owned network for women called Twist is coming to one of the Univision signals in the NYC DMA this spring.


According to TitanTV and Twist's website, it's going to be on 41.4.


----------



## NYC

Twist is now on 41.4 and I am also able to get WEDW, a station I have not been able to tune in since they broadcast in analog.


----------



## David1014

We now have Twist on 41.3 and WJLP added NTD-TV I think the english version on 33.7


----------



## McShadyPL

I'm thrilled that ThisTV is again available in the NYC metro area. Any word on whether Comet will become available as well, by any chance?


----------



## KyL416

CBS made a deal for many of the Sinclair diginets about a year ago, but the CBS O&Os give priority to their core networks (Start, Fave, DABL), so the Sinclair diginets like Comet and Stadium, are relegated to their secondary stations like WLNY which doesn't reach NYC. While WPIX has TBD from a deal their previous owner made.

Since most of the other stations are network O&Os who have their own commitments, the chances of it finding a new metro-NYC home are likely slim unless someone like WJLP, WZME or WRNN decides to make a deal for them.


----------



## SBRUSKI

McShadyPL said:


> I'm thrilled that ThisTV is again available in the NYC metro area. Any word on whether Comet will become available as well, by any chance?


On Long Island, We can see COMET on channel 20.3.WCCT-DT from Connecticut.
See if you can tune it in.


----------



## KyL416

Long Island also now gets Comet via WLNY 55.2.

Areas west of Nassau county have a hard chance of getting most of those Hartford stations, not just because of the distance and terrain, but because of NYC area LPTV stations that are already or will soon be on those same RF numbers. Like WCCT's RF 33 will likely be taken by either W32EI-D or W41DO-D, WVIT's RF 31 will be taken by WHTV-LD, while WTNH's RF 10 is now taken by WNXY-LD.


----------



## LenL

I'm getting Comet on 57.3 and I'm in Randolph NJ. It is possibly a Philly station? Don't know where it is from at the moment since I don't watch it but I can get Philly stations sometimes since I am now residing at 950 feet above sea level and my CM4228 antennas are doing a great job! One outside and even one in the attic for use by a second floor TV.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> I'm getting Comet on 57.3 and I'm in Randolph NJ. It is possibly a Philly station? Don't know where it is from at the moment since I don't watch it but I can get Philly stations sometimes since I am now residing at 950 feet about sea level and my CM4228 antennas are doing a great job! One outside and even one in the attic for use by a second floor TV.


Yes, WPSG 57.3 from Philly carries Comet.


----------



## LenL

Ok thanks! Can't really figure out how I am getting most of the Philly stations since my antennas are pointing at 1WTC! Not at all in the right direction to get Philly.


----------



## trailblazer

LenL said:


> Ok thanks! Can't really figure out how I am getting most of the Philly stations since my antennas are pointing at 1WTC! Not at all in the right direction to get Philly.


I am in Barnegat NJ and my antenna is pointed to Philly and I can pick up WCBS and WNBC on the side of the attenna albeit a weak signal of 40 to 50 %. Sometimes I even pick up Channel 5 & 9 depending on the weather..


----------



## Balto-Media

McShadyPL said:


> I'm thrilled that ThisTV is again available in the NYC metro area. Any word on whether Comet will become available as well, by any chance?


You can watch COMET online for free also, I believe even on a cell phone. Of course Sinclair tried to buy WPIX, but we know how that turned sour.


----------



## ansky212

Rewind TV, another new network, coming this fall. Looks like all of the 80's programming from Antenna TV will end up on there. I assume this will be carried as a subchannel of WPIX.









Nexstar To Launch Rewind TV, Digital Channel Airing Classics


Rewind TV features 80s and 90s hits ‘Drew Carey,’ ‘Murphy Brown,’ ‘Growing Pains’




www.nexttv.com


----------



## McShadyPL

Does anyone else have audio/video feed on ThisTV out-of-sync? Since the channel launched on 7.3, the video has been about a second delayed compared to the audio.


----------



## ansky212

McShadyPL said:


> Does anyone else have audio/video feed on ThisTV out-of-sync? Since the channel launched on 7.3, the video has been about a second delayed compared to the audio.


Yeah it's definitely out of synch.


----------



## offandon

Hi I am looking for a little help if it will even be possible. I am in Rockaway NJ. I have a clearstream 4max with preamp in the attic and I am getting all the channels I want with the exception of MeTV which is on channel 3. No matter what I have done in testing I cannot get a signal stronger than the occasional pixels (my TiVo bolt tuner says signal strength around 30). All my other channels I want (7,11, 28, 33, 38, 44) come in very well with signal strength readings from around 58-72.

RabbitEars.Info 

Is there a way that I can add something and combine the antenna signals to help get channel 3?


----------



## KyL416

It's a VHF-lo signal, so you need something with longer VHF elements. The VHF element on the Clearstream Max is designed for VHF-Hi only (RFs 7-13). At your distance and signal levels, you'll likely have better luck with a traditional Yagi style antenna that was common during the analog era when the major NYC locals were on RFs 2-13.

Also, the RF numbers changed during the repack:
CBS is now on RF 36, it's no longer on RF 33
NBC and Telemundo are now on RF 35, they're no longer on RFs 28 and 36
Fox is now on RF 27, it's no longer on RF 44
WWOR and WRNN are now on RF 25, they're no longer on RFs 38 and 48
WNET is now on RF 12, it's no longer on RF 13
WLIW is now on RF 32, it's no longer on RF 21
Ion is now on RF 34, it's no longer on RF 31
Univision and UniMas 68 are now on RF 26, they're no longer on RFs 40 and 30.
WNJN is now spectrum sharing with WNJB on RF 8, it's no longer on RF 51
TBN is now spectrum sharing with WDVB-CD on RF 22, it's no longer on RF 27


----------



## offandon

Thanks. My brain must not be working as when I scanned the channels in my new place I did notice the channel numbers were not what I remembered from years ago when I last used OTA.

I was hoping I could find a reasonably easy way to combine something that would help with channel 3 into my current setup rather than replace it. All the other channels are doing quite well.


----------



## marlowja

Looks like yet another WJLP subchannel - LocalNow launching on 37-1. Looking forward to the 240p picture quality.


----------



## ansky212

marlowja said:


> Looks like yet another WJLP subchannel - LocalNow launching on 37-1. Looking forward to the 240p picture quality.


I'm seeing NewsNet on 37.1 which I believe has been there for years.


----------



## marlowja

ansky212 said:


> I'm seeing NewsNet on 37.1 which I believe has been there for years.


Here's a current picture of what is on 37.1


----------



## KyL416

NJNN's website has also been updated to remove references to WNWT 37.1 and tell people to find them on WJLP 33.8.

If you're still seeing NewsNet on 37.1, you might need to do a rescan if your TV stores the PIDs since before 37.1 and 33.8 were pointing to the same video and audio PIDs.


----------



## KyL416

Zap2it/Gracenote's entry for 37.1 WNWTLD has the schedule for Local Now starting tommorow at 6am. It's a mix of "Local Now" in the first half hour, and various Entertainment Studio shows like Cars.tv, ES.TV, Recipe.tv and Comics Unleashed in the second half hour.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Zap2it/Gracenote's entry for 37.1 WNWTLD has the schedule for Local Now starting tommorow at 6am. It's a mix of "Local Now" in the first half hour, and various Entertainment Studio shows like Cars.tv, ES.TV, Recipe.tv and Comics Unleashed in the second half hour.


I can confirm it's live as of this morning. I couldn't make it through 2 minutes of the LN newscast. The newscast they were airing seemed to be at least a day old.


----------



## zeebre12

KyL416 said:


> Zap2it/Gracenote's entry for 37.1 WNWTLD has the schedule for Local Now starting tommorow at 6am. It's a mix of "Local Now" in the first half hour, and various Entertainment Studio shows like Cars.tv, ES.TV, Recipe.tv and Comics Unleashed in the second half hour.


Is this basically a local station with local specific news for the area or what is it?


----------



## KyL416

The first half hour "Local Now" is a loop of city specific weather (narrated by Jim Cantore), sports scores, lotto results, restaraunt reviews, and national/regional/local headlines that you would see on the Local Now app and website, the second half hour is programming from Entertainment Studios, overnight between midnight-6am is an infomercial block.


----------



## pabuwal

Did Channel 55 WLNY just flip the switch on a big power boost? 82 signal strength here in Central Jersey. Never received it before.


----------



## fri1038

pabuwal said:


> Did Channel 55 WLNY just flip the switch on a big power boost? 82 signal strength here in Central Jersey. Never received it before.


There are some strong tropospheric conditions along the Atlantic coast from Maine to Virginia this evening. I see WLNY in Maryland sometimes.


----------



## pabuwal

It's likely that but every other Philly and NYC station are generally in the same signal strength range.


----------



## KyL416

WLNY transmits from Eastern Long Island, under normal reception conditions it mostly drops off as you approach the Brooklyn/Queens border.

They have no construction permit or pending applications for any additional boost, and they can't move it to 1WTC, Empire or 4 Times Square because a NYC based signal wouldn't reach their city of license Riverhead. They also can't change their city of license to some place further west since that would mean Riverhead would lose its only full power allotment.


----------



## MadMan400096

KyL416 said:


> WLNY transmits from Eastern Long Island, under normal reception conditions it mostly drops off as you approach the Brooklyn/Queens border.
> 
> They have no construction permit or pending applications for any additional boost, and they can't move it to 1WTC, Empire or 4 Times Square because a NYC based signal wouldn't reach their city of license Riverhead. They also can't change their city of license to some place further west since that would mean Riverhead would lose its only full power allotment.


It doesn't help that CBS didn't bother buying any of WLNY's repeaters with the main station. Then again, they were all based close enough to the main signal that it wouldn't have improved reception within the greater NYC market much.


----------



## fri1038

Speak of the devil ... 3/10 8/10 bars on my set's crude strength meter. Also seeing a smattering of the Philadelphia stations I see most mornings and evenings recently.


----------



## pabuwal

Yup, definitely tropo. Received WGNT from VA/NC border for a few minutes.


----------



## KyL416

MadMan400096 said:


> It doesn't help that CBS didn't bother buying any of WLNY's repeaters with the main station. Then again, they were all based close enough to the main signal that it wouldn't have improved reception within the greater NYC market much.


Part of that was because at the time CBS still had their radio division with stations in NYC, Philly and Hartford, along with their TV station in NYC and their duopoly in Philly (KYW and WPGS) which all overlapped. CBS was already at their cap in NYC with 3 AM, 4 FM and 1 TV, but since WLNY's main signal is based in Eastern LI, which is a different radio market, it didn't count against the NYC radio stations. Most of NYC's FM stations are pretty much non-existant past exit 65 of the LIE, while WLNY's tower is between exits 67 and 68.


----------



## ansky212

pabuwal said:


> Did Channel 55 WLNY just flip the switch on a big power boost? 82 signal strength here in Central Jersey. Never received it before.


I'm in the Newark area. During the summer months I can usually pick up WLNY most nights between about 9pm and 9am the following morning.


----------



## pabuwal

ansky212 said:


> I'm in the Newark area. During the summer months I can usually pick up WLNY most nights between about 9pm and 9am the following morning.


That seems to be the case. Summer from 7 PM to 8 AM.


----------



## LenL

For the past 2 weeks I started having signal quality issues with fluctuating and dropping signal quality even though signal strength is 100%. Thus picture is dropping out and pixelating. Appears to be mostly with UHF stations that were rock soild. WCBS 2.1 and WLIW 21.1 are examples where I am having issues.

Wondering if anyone else is seeing issues. 

I first chalked it up to Tropo issues and thought it would get better but it has been going on too long.


----------



## mrradiohead55

LenL said:


> For the past 2 weeks I started having signal quality issues with fluctuating and dropping signal quality even though signal strength is 100%. Thus picture is dropping out and pixelating. Appears to be mostly with UHF stations that were rock soild. WCBS 2.1 and WLIW 21.1 are examples where I am having issues.
> 
> Wondering if anyone else is seeing issues.
> 
> I first chalked it up to Tropo issues and thought it would get better but it has been going on too long.


WCBS broadcasts on RF 36; WLIW broadcasts on RF 32. Any of the channels above RF 30 are subject to LTE interference _IF_ you are really close to a cellular tower. It's possible you might want to try an LTE filter on the cable to see if that fixes the problem. BUT - I am aware that tropo, as you mentioned, has been very strong at times up and down the coast over the past two weeks. I know TV dxers (long distance reception) up around Cape Cod (and even one in New Jersey) have periodically been catching TV stations from as far south as Myrtle Beach and Savannah. Any co-channel signals from out of the market can definitely cause interference.


----------



## LenL

Seems to be happening with RF 26 on up. RF 25 and lower are problem free at the moment.

I do have a huge cell tower about 1/2 mile away but it was not a problem all along so I don't know why it would all of a sudden be an issue now.


----------



## MeatChicken

LenL said:


> Seems to be happening with RF 26 on up. RF 25 and lower are problem free at the moment.
> 
> I do have a huge cell tower about 1/2 mile away but it was not a problem all along so I don't know why it would all of a sudden be an issue now.


They could have possibly recently "turned On" additional LTE frequencies that weren't in use on that particular site/sector, and/or re-adjusted antenna panel angles etc ...


----------



## fri1038

Trees? The leaves hit my UHF reception. High-VHF is largely immune in my case.


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> For the past 2 weeks I started having signal quality issues with fluctuating and dropping signal quality even though signal strength is 100%. Thus picture is dropping out and pixelating. Appears to be mostly with UHF stations that were rock soild. WCBS 2.1 and WLIW 21.1 are examples where I am having issues.
> 
> Wondering if anyone else is seeing issues.
> 
> I first chalked it up to Tropo issues and thought it would get better but it has been going on too long.


Foliage and LTE are the two main disrupters of UHF TV signals, so those are your most likely culprits if it's been two straight weeks of interference. That's not to say CCI from tropospheric ducting can't be your problem, but most tropo goes away (or at least weakens) in the daytime and doesn't come back until close to sunset.


----------



## LenL

Trees were not the issue at the end of April 2021 and April 2020 and August of 2020 when signal quality was mostly 100% across all stations. So I doubt it is a tree issue. It would seem unlikely.

I suspect there is another culprit. It seems from the responses so far that I am the only one on the forum that has an issue. By the way the issue is with both of my CM4228 antennas. One is mounted outside and the other is in the attic. Great signal strength of 100% for the most part and fluctuating signal quality of less than 100% sometimes dropping to zero depending on the station.

I may have to try some filters. Good thing we are coming into rerun season.


----------



## pabuwal

LenL said:


> Trees were not the issue at the end of April 2021 and April 2020 and August of 2020 when signal quality was mostly 100% across all stations. So I doubt it is a tree issue. It would seem unlikely.
> 
> I suspect there is another culprit. It seems from the responses so far that I am the only one on the forum that has an issue. By the way the issue is with both of my CM4228 antennas. One is mounted outside and the other is in the attic. Great signal strength of 100% for the most part and fluctuating signal quality of less than 100% sometimes dropping to zero depending on the station.
> 
> I may have to try some filters. Good thing we are coming into rerun season.


I've had this same problem consistently with the same antenna except it's the version they sold 20 years ago. I have another 20 year old antenna with low VHF that doesn't have this problem. I'm receiving a new antenna (the one you have) today hoping it will fix this problem but sounds like it could be the antenna.


----------



## LenL

pabuwal,

Actually my 2 cm4228 antennas are the original ones made. They are from what others have said better than the newer models. So good luck with your new antenna and report back on the results. I just sprung for the CM LTE filter for $19 to see if that helps resolve my issue. It has helped some people and not others.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> Trees were not the issue at the end of April 2021 and April 2020 and August of 2020 when signal quality was mostly 100% across all stations. So I doubt it is a tree issue. It would seem unlikely.
> 
> I suspect there is another culprit. It seems from the responses so far that I am the only one on the forum that has an issue. By the way the issue is with both of my CM4228 antennas. One is mounted outside and the other is in the attic. Great signal strength of 100% for the most part and fluctuating signal quality of less than 100% sometimes dropping to zero depending on the station.
> 
> I may have to try some filters. Good thing we are coming into rerun season.


Large signal fluctuations sounds like a multipath issue. Why this would happen all of a sudden I don't know. Is there any way you can try moving your antenna a bit to see if that helps at all?


----------



## LenL

ansky212,

Could be multipath but I hope not as that would be a problem to deal with since both antennas are having the issue. One is outside and the other about 75 feet away in the attic. Both were 100/100 with signal strength and quality until a few weeks ago. Leaves were on the trees when there was NO issue. So it is not the leaves. No sure what else could be causing multipath.

I have found this piece on the internet which covers a bunch of OTA reception issues and solutions. I have tried a bunch of things and so far none of them made a difference. Trying to figure it out by the process of elimination.









Eliminate Over The Air Antenna Interference - Over The Air Digital TV


OTA antenna interference can be very frustrating, especially if your favorite station loses its reception. There can be a number of different causes for over the air antenna interference. Some interference can cause pixelation, picture noise or loss of signal. Let's look at some of the causes.




www.overtheairdigitaltv.com


----------



## pabuwal

LenL said:


> ansky212,
> 
> Could be multipath but I hope not as that would be a problem to deal with since both antennas are having the issue. One is outside and the other about 75 feet away in the attic. Both were 100/100 with signal strength and quality until a few weeks ago. Leaves were on the trees when there was NO issue. So it is not the leaves. No sure what else could be causing multipath.
> 
> I have found this piece on the internet which covers a bunch of OTA reception issues and solutions. I have tried a bunch of things and so far none of them made a difference. Trying to figure it out by the process of elimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eliminate Over The Air Antenna Interference - Over The Air Digital TV
> 
> 
> OTA antenna interference can be very frustrating, especially if your favorite station loses its reception. There can be a number of different causes for over the air antenna interference. Some interference can cause pixelation, picture noise or loss of signal. Let's look at some of the causes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overtheairdigitaltv.com


Edited:
Both old and new CMs were positioned so Philly was the primary direction with NYC secondary to allow me to receive all channels from both cities. Both showed constant drop outs on the NYC channels. I moved the old CM to a position specific to NYC and everything was solved. No LTE filter or preamp used. CM advertises itself as a multi-directional antenna but I just don't think it is.


----------



## Brian in CT

pabuwal said:


> CM advertises itself as a multi-directional antenna but I just don't think it is.


I guess it depends on the model. For example, I can't see how the Advantage series of antennas (I have the Advantage 60) can be considered "multi-directional." Unless the TV signal you want is moderately strong, it's best to point the antenna right at the transmitter of the station you want.


----------



## LenL

Just an update on my reception issues and my efforts to solve them. As mentioned a few posts back my signal quality for WLIW 21.1 went so low that reception became and issue. Signal strength remained 100%. Qualty was sometime 0.

So I invested in 2 items from Channel Master. I bought the LTE and FM filters for $19 each. I was hoping the issue I was having was fixable. The filters were recently received and both installed according to directions. The results were that neither filter hurt reception and more importantly neither filter fixed the signal quality issues. They may work for other people but they did not work for me. I will keep them in my arsenal of OTA products.

So I did learn something. My reception issues are NOT due to LTE or FM interference.

Not sure if there is anything else I can pin it on. If it were trees then WLIW would be bad all the time but even now there are times it comes in with no breakup. Tree are not changing this time of year. Tropo? Maybe as that does change daily.


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> Just an update on my reception issues and my efforts to solve them. As mentioned a few posts back my signal quality for WLIW 21.1 went so low that reception became and issue. Signal strength remained 100%. Quality was sometime 0.
> 
> So I invested in 2 items from Channel Master. I bought the LTE and FM filters for $19 each. I was hoping the issue I was having was fixable. The filters were recently received and both installed according to directions. The results were that neither filter hurt reception and more importantly neither filter fixed the signal quality issues. They may work for other people but they did not work for me. I will keep them in my arsenal of OTA products.
> 
> So I did learn something. My reception issues are NOT due to LTE or FM interference.
> 
> Not sure if there is anything else I can pin it on. If it were trees then WLIW would be bad all the time but even now there are times it comes in with no breakup. Tree are not changing this time of year. Tropo? Maybe as that does change daily.


Sorry you couldn't figure out the problem. At least it didn't cost you a bundle to do so. The fact that you have an excellent signal but no picture leaves me scratching my head. Tropo usually happens between sunset and sunrise, so if WLIW has this problem at midday much of the time, it likely isn't that. If you were real close to 1WTC and used a preamp, I would say to disconnect the preamp to see if the strong signal is overloading the tuning chip. Since you're over 30 miles from the towers, I doubt this could be the case. I have no other ideas. Hopefully, you have WNET and WNJN for PBS programming


----------



## Trip in VA

I've heard talk that W32EI-D might be on the air. Could that be interfering with it? When you said it was most stations above 25 or 26, I figured it was something else, but if it's specifically WLIW giving you the problem, that seems like a possibility, at least.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

Just another update FWIW.

My last post was shortly after I had tried both my CM FM and LITE filters. I tried them around 2 pm. Well surprise surprise at 5 pm just for the heck of it I checked WLIW 21.1 and both signal strength and quality were at 100%!

7:45 this am it is back down to 100/10 (quality) with pixelation.


----------



## LenL

Trip if it is an issue with W32EI-D is there a way to deal with it?


----------



## LenL

Brian yes I get PBS WNET and WNJN however WLIW has a lot of different programming that WNET and WNJN don't broadcast. Which is a good thing if I can watch/record without breakup and pixelation..


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> Trip if it is an issue with W32EI-D is there a way to deal with it?


Assuming you can confirm that's the issue, report it to WLIW.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

An LPTV station must accept harmful interference from full-service television stations and *may not cause harmful interference to any full-service television station* (the FCC defines interference levels deemed to be "harmful"). The problem with potential displacement was made evident during the transition of broadcasting in the United States from analog to digital. All television stations operating on UHF channels 52 and above were required to move to channel 51 or below. Full-service stations were guaranteed a place to land in the new compressed band while LPTV stations operating on channels 52 and above were required to either find their own channel or lose their license. 

First I have to determine if it is on the air broadcasting and so far I have not verified that it is. If I can verify it is on the air and the hours it is on the air (hopefully less that 24) then I can do some more detective work.


----------



## ansky212

Have there been any recent updates on the situation with the WEDW DTS application? I tried doing a Google search but couldn't find anything recent.


----------



## logger-a

One piece of news about the WEDW DTS is that the case PMCM TV, LLC. v. FCC will be decided without the oral arguments that had been scheduled for May 7, 2021. PMCM claims that the FCC improperly granted the application for WEDW to operate a Distributed Transmission System.


----------



## KyL416

There should be a more detailed update filed within the next few weeks since both their latest STA extension and tolling request expire in July.


----------



## KyL416

WPXN will launch Scripps's 2 new diginets on July 1st:
31.4 CourtTV -> Defy TV (CourtTV will still be available via WPIX 11.3 for the next few years)
31.6 HSN -> TrueReal


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WPXN will launch Scripps's 2 new diginets on July 1st:
> 31.4 CourtTV -> Defy TV (CourtTV will still be available via WPIX 11.3 for the next few years)
> 31.6 HSN -> TrueReal


I was thinking Rewind TV would land on WPIX 11.3 this fall. Maybe they will put Rewind on 11.4 and replace TBD.


----------



## marlowja

I believe Scripps is transferring Newsy from a cable offering to an OTA news channel this summer, I wouldn’t be surprised if it makes it to WPXN or WPIX. I wouldn’t mind this, likely a higher quality offering than NewsNet.


----------



## KyL416

WPIX isn't owned by Scripps anymore. They were basically babysitting the channel for about a year until Nexstar made a few more moves that allowed their shell company Mission to purchase it last year, which is why Scripps didn't make any major changes to WPIX while they had it.

Newsy will probably end up as a new 31.7 on WPXN or replace one of the duplicate diginets until Scripps can get around to upgrading the encoders on all of the Ion stations.


----------



## logger-a

WEDW DTS related court ruling has been issued.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit has issued a judgement that dismisses PMCM TV, LLC's appeal of the FCC's granting an application for station WEDW to convert to Distributed Transmission System (DTS) operation. WEDW should no longer delay constructing the DTS because of the possibility that the appeals court would rule in favor of PMCM.


----------



## ansky212

logger-a said:


> WEDW DTS related court ruling has been issued.
> 
> The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit has issued a judgement that dismisses PMCM TV, LLC's appeal of the FCC's granting an application for station WEDW to convert to Distributed Transmission System (DTS) operation. WEDW should no longer delay constructing the DTS because of the possibility that the appeals court would rule in favor of PMCM.


Excellent news. However, is there anything to prevent PMCM from filing yet another appeal, as they have continuously done for the past 2-3 years?


----------



## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> Excellent news. However, is there anything to prevent PMCM from filing yet another appeal, as they have continuously done for the past 2-3 years?


The last paragraph of the judgement includes: "We direct the Clerk to withhold this mandate until seven days after resolution of a timely petition for rehearing or for rehearing en banc." PMCM can request a rehearing by the appeals court, including requesting one by the all the judges of the appeals court ("en banc").

Appealing to the Supreme Court of the United States is a possibility. However, there does not appear to be an issue of the type that the Supreme Court usually considers, such as constitutional issues.


----------



## KyL416

Remember, this is WJLP, the same station who went to the courts to force the FCC to let them use a forgotten loophole to move from Nevada to New Jersey (NYC), tried to use virtual 3 despite the massive overlap with KYW and WFSB, initially attempted to use virtual 6 for WNWT-LD despite the overlap with WPVI, and is also trying to prevent Ventana's LPTV HSN station from using RF 33 with the bogus idea that somehow no one can have RF 33 in the market because of their virtual 33, even though WCBS had 33 prior to the repack and WPSG and WCCT prevents WJLP from petitioning to leave VHF-lo for UHF 33.

I wouldn't put anything past them or their lawyers who are probably more than willing to continue to file pointless appeals and bogus objections as long as PMCM continues to send them checks to do so.


----------



## KyL416

WLIG-LP update, I drove by exit 49 on the expressway today, my pocket analog TV didn't pick up anything on channel 17.


----------



## ansky212

I just noticed that WPXN 31.2 is now carrying Bounce, replacing Grit.


----------



## KyL416

Keep an eye out on 31.2, if they haven't already done so yet, it will likely be available in HD in the near future as Scripps is in the process of upgrading the encoders on the Ion stations.


----------



## LenL

KyL416 please explain this statement: "Keep an eye out on 31.2, if they haven't already done so yet, it will likely be available in HD" What do you mean by HD? You mean 480P? 720P? 1080i?


----------



## mets18

KyL416 said:


> Keep an eye out on 31.2, if they haven't already done so yet, it will likely be available in HD in the near future as Scripps is in the process of upgrading the encoders on the Ion stations.


FWIW, FIOS has added Bounce HD. I know they don't use the OTA signal but it could be a sign that it is coming.


----------



## ansky212

I'm thinking that 31.2 may already be in HD. Yesterday when I compared the Bounce feed on 31.2 to their broadcast that is still airing on 41.2, the 31.2 picture was noticeably better.


----------



## LenL

HDTV may be transmitted in various formats:


720p (1280 vertical pixels × 720 horizontal lines): 921,600 pixels
1080i (1920×1080) interlaced scan: 1,036,800 pixels (~1.04 MP).
1080p (1920×1080) progressive scan: 2,073,600 pixels (~2.07 MP). Not in use for broadcast standard ATSC 1.0 (in use in United States, Mexico, Canada)


----------



## LenL

41.2 is broadcast SD 480i and 31.2 is broadcast HD 720p


----------



## David1014

WMBC 63.4 open with a Sino vision double from 63.3, maybe they have plans to bring a network there. Also 63.1 is showing NTD America. WRNN 48.1 went Shop HQ. No sign of WASA or WKOB on 13.


----------



## KyL416

63.1 only carries NTD America part time from noon-midnight, they still have local programming and their newscasts, which now airs at 11:30am instead of 5pm. They also now have the Japanese FCI News Catch newscast in the morning that previously aired on WRNN, and before that WNYC-TV.

Sinovision 63.3 and 63.4 are pointing to the same audio and video stream.

WASA's presence right now is just the 42-6 Estrella subchannel on WKOB RF 2. The latest STA Extension request they filed says they expect to finish the shared RF 13 site by the end of August.

43.1 WZME switched to ShopHQ's sister network ShopHQ Health.


----------



## ansky212

Are there any plans for WMBC to move to One WTC anytime soon? I saw that they have an approved application out there.


----------



## KyL416

KyL416 said:


> WLIG-LP update, I drove by exit 49 on the expressway today, my pocket analog TV didn't pick up anything on channel 17.


WLIG-LP filed for the license to cover for their digital flashcut on Friday and it was granted today, making them WLIG-LD. It's still on RF 17 and coming from WLNY's old Melville studio:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f917a52ec2c017a58cb551e141b&site=1&map=Y


----------



## LenL

Since my antenna is picking up Philly stations now I am wondering if these are causing interference with my reception of NY TV stations. Although they are mostly coming in with pixelation they must be having some impact? Since FM and LITe filters have not solved my reception issues I am wondering if the answer lies in my antenna capturing too much out of market stations?


----------



## KyL416

Unless the boost conditions are strong enough that you are picking up co-channel LPTV signals like WFPA-CD, WQAV-CD, WPHA-CD, WZPA-LD, WPSJ-CD or W25FG-D, the Philly stations shouldn't cause regular conflicts with the NYC stations.

The bigger thing that changed with the repack is that many of the NYC stations moved from Empire to the new 1WTC, so depending on where you are, you might need to reaim your antenna for better reception of NYC.


----------



## LenL

If I am picking up KYW 3.1, WCAU 10.1, WPHL 17.1, WPSG 57.1, WUVP 65.1 then I would think everything from Philly and south of my location could be causing co-channel issues.... yes?

I'm thinking my CM 4228 antenna may not be directional enough and so is pulling in stations to my south and west 90 miles away! It is pointed at 1WTC! It is not even on the roof but rather on the side of the house facing 1WTC!


----------



## RMinNJ

Is WNYW from NY (RF channel 27 Virtual channel 5) operating at reduced power? I started testing with a small antenna again and was able to pull in only CBS(uhf 27), NBC(uhf 35) and ABC (7vhf). Not sure if its doable where I am with trees. 
*RabbitEars.Info*


----------



## Brian in CT

RMinNJ said:


> Is WNYW from NY (RF channel 27 Virtual channel 5) operating at reduced power? I started testing with a small antenna again and was able to pull in only CBS(uhf 27), NBC(uhf 35) and ABC (7vhf). Not sure if its doable where I am with trees.
> *RabbitEars.Info*


If you click on the "Transmitter Distance" of the 1WTC TV stations, you will notice a ridge a few miles to your southeast partially blocking those signals. Unfortunately, this puts you in a "terrain shadow" for the NYC stations. The good news is that the signals are being diffracted enough at the ridge to get the stronger stations. The bad news is that WNYW (and WWOR) are predicted to be just barely above "Bad" field strength, making them harder to get. You might need a better antenna, more height, and/or a good preamp to receive them.

You are correct about the trees. Foliage absorbs UHF signals. You don't want to be too close to dense woodlands with your antenna, trying to receive weak signals.


----------



## RMinNJ

Brian in CT said:


> If you click on the "Transmitter Distance" of the 1WTC TV stations, you will notice a ridge a few miles to your southeast partially blocking those signals. Unfortunately, this puts you in a "terrain shadow" for the NYC stations. The good news is that the signals are being diffracted enough at the ridge to get the stronger stations. The bad news is that WNYW (and WWOR) are predicted to be just barely above "Bad" field strength, making them harder to get. You might need a better antenna, more height, and/or a good preamp to receive them.
> You are correct about the trees. Foliage absorbs UHF signals. You don't want to be too close to dense woodlands with your antenna, trying to receive weak signals.


Brian, Thanks..
Unfortunately I'm surrounded by trees and coupled with weak signals I'm doubtful Im going to get these channels reliably.
I could try a larger antenna but cannot get above the trees and they will only get taller...I'm afraid if I do get something to
work it will only be for a year or two. It stinks because getting 7 VHF and 27 and 34 UHF iit gives me the illusion that I can get all my locals with an antenna..


----------



## Joseph Rubin

So no matter what I try, years now of trying! Antennas, tuners, boxes, filters, cables, splitters, etc etc etc etc etc ....... I still keep getting interference on my most watched channel. Metv. It's virtual channel# 33.1 Rf channel 3. (Lo vhf). Is anyone else having these interference issues? It would be perfect sometimes for weeks, then start slightly pixelating every few minutes.... I've tried EVERYTHING! From LTE filters, to quad shield cables, it just persists! Please can someone here be my savior?? Please someone tell me that you had these same issues with the same channels (all channel that are under Rf 3 are the same issue, so all the 33 and 37 channels). And please please then tell me that you found the perfect solution to the problem?? Make my day someone....


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Joseph Rubin said:


> So no matter what I try, years now of trying! Antennas, tuners, boxes, filters, cables, splitters, etc etc etc etc etc ....... I still keep getting interference on my most watched channel. Metv. It's virtual channel# 33.1 Rf channel 3. (Lo vhf). Is anyone else having these interference issues? It would be perfect sometimes for weeks, then start slightly pixelating every few minutes.... I've tried EVERYTHING! From LTE filters, to quad shield cables, it just persists! Please can someone here be my savior?? Please someone tell me that you had these same issues with the same channels (all channel that are under Rf 3 are the same issue, so all the 33 and 37 channels). And please please then tell me that you found the perfect solution to the problem?? Make my day someone....


Cheap LED light bulbs can cause interference on VHF. The same with electrical lines. Is your antenna outside or hidden in the attic?


----------



## SBRUSKI

Tyler beat me to the post.
Good Ground, Pre-Amplifier, Antenna location.
All possible directions for a cleaner signal. 
MeTV is a very weak signal out on Long Island. 

What is your location?


----------



## LenL

Joseph Rubin said:


> So no matter what I try, years now of trying! Antennas, tuners, boxes, filters, cables, splitters, etc etc etc etc etc ....... I still keep getting interference on my most watched channel. Metv. It's virtual channel# 33.1 Rf channel 3. (Lo vhf). Is anyone else having these interference issues? It would be perfect sometimes for weeks, then start slightly pixelating every few minutes.... I've tried EVERYTHING! From LTE filters, to quad shield cables, it just persists! Please can someone here be my savior?? Please someone tell me that you had these same issues with the same channels (all channel that are under Rf 3 are the same issue, so all the 33 and 37 channels). And please please then tell me that you found the perfect solution to the problem?? Make my day someone....


So what antenna are you using? Where are you located? Low VHF requires a special antenna to receive its signal unless you are very close to the transmitter.

You might want to read the following for VHF low issues:








Make your own low vhf antenna


My do it yourself low vhf antenna. I have searched the web unsuccessfully for a simple antenna design for receiving low vhf HDTV signals (channel 3, 55 miles away). With information from ham radio sites and from (google cheap and easy tv antenna because I am not allowed to post url's), I...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> Cheap LED light bulbs can cause interference on VHF. The same with electrical lines. Is your antenna outside or hidden in the attic?


Like I said, I've tried everything over the last few years. But currently I have it rooftop, I'm in Brooklyn, so only like less than 20 miles away, and I'm currently using the CM stealth antenna. But I've used 10 different antennas, all similar issues.
My current rooftop setup is the best it's been. It was perfect for almost 2 months, but now it's crappy again. .. sigh


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> Cheap LED light bulbs can cause interference on VHF. The same with electrical lines. Is your antenna outside or hidden in the attic?


Btw I Love your you tube videos


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Joseph Rubin said:


> Like I said, I've tried everything over the last few years. But currently I have it rooftop, I'm in Brooklyn, so only like less than 20 miles away, and I'm currently using the CM stealth antenna. But I've used 10 different antennas, all similar issues.
> My current rooftop setup is the best it's been. It was perfect for almost 2 months, but now it's crappy again. .. sigh


There's your issue. Your current antenna doesn't have any low VHF elements. The Winegard HD7000R is one in a comparable size with low VHF capability.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> There's your issue. Your current antenna doesn't have any low VHF elements. The Winegard HD7000R is one in a comparable size with low VHF capability.


I wouldn't think I needed it less than 20 miles from source ... But I actually purchased that exact antenna, because the lo vhf element, but I couldn't find anyone to install for me rooftop. (if your ever in Brooklyn, I'll pay you to install it)


----------



## Brian in CT

@Joseph Rubin - The problem with trying to receive a VHF-Lo TV signal is that every gizmo that uses electricity can effectively cause the signal to drop out. In addition to cheap LED lights, other sources of RF noise include microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, security cameras, and power inverters. So it might not have been the fault of some of those different antennas you used.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Brian in CT said:


> @Joseph Rubin - The problem with trying to receive a VHF-Lo TV signal is that every gizmo that uses electricity can effectively cause the signal to drop out. In addition to cheap LED lights, other sources of RF noise include microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, security cameras, and power inverters. So it might not have been the fault of some of those different antennas you used.


That makes a lot of sense. Because I've long suspected that it is some local interference issue, rather than any kind of reception issue. Because like you said, some of those antennas performed great on EVERY other channel. So I suspected it isn't a reception issue .. with the one exception being the issue mentioned in previous response, that it IS a reception issue, and it being that all the antennas I've tried, were indeed not made for vhf lo band. But they all picked it up strongly anyway, but with those interference issues coming n going ... So that's the only thing I could possibly still try to blame it on. So if it's reception related it HAS to be because I just need a vhf lo element... If not it has to be local noise interference. But it lasts sometimes for days in a row, so can't be just a vacuum or microwave. Those would be a few minutes of intense noise, where as mine is not strong but can last for days......
I'm rambling... Hope you understood my points


----------



## Brian in CT

Joseph Rubin said:


> That makes a lot of sense. Because I've long suspected that it is some local interference issue, rather than any kind of reception issue. Because like you said, some of those antennas performed great on EVERY other channel. So I suspected it isn't a reception issue .. with the one exception being the issue mentioned in previous response, that it IS a reception issue, and it being that all the antennas I've tried, were indeed not made for vhf lo band. But they all picked it up strongly anyway, but with those interference issues coming n going ... So that's the only thing I could possibly still try to blame it on. So if it's reception related it HAS to be because I just need a vhf lol element... If not it has to be local noise interference. But it last sometimes for days in a row, so can't be just a vacuum or microwave. Those would be a few minutes of intense noise, where as mine is not strong but can last for days......
> I'm rambling... Hope you understood my points


I see. I guess the only thing left to try is an antenna with long VHF-Lo elements. If that makes the difference, great. If not, then it's likely some kind of interference problem. Keep your receipts.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Brian in CT said:


> I see. I guess the only thing left to try is an antenna with long VHF-Lo elements. If that makes the difference, great. If not, then it's likely some kind of interference problem. Keep your receipts.


I've purchased the Winegard HD7000R like 3 years ago from Amazon (only like $40) but never could find a installer. I can't get up on my roof myself. It's a 2 flr building, need a big ladder etc. So the antenna is still in the box stored away
I wish someone would install it on my roof for me. We need a local Tyler the antenna man. Hehe


----------



## LenL

Call some of your local roofing contractors and see if they have any guys that work for them that would be interested in a small side project. It is going to cost you to have someone bring and set up a ladder and install your antenna. If you can get that done for under $200 you will be lucky.

By the way I just replaced my great highly regarded CM4228 antenna with a much smaller less regarded RCA Yagi ANT751. I did this because I thought my problem with pixelation on some of my channels like 21.1 WLIW and now CBS 2.1 were due to the antenna capturing too much signal including a bunch of Philly stations perhaps introducing co-channel or other interference. This happens even tough I am almost 30 miles due east of NYC! My antenna is only pointing south ever so slightly and Philly is to my south west 60 plus miles! So I thought it would be interesting to try this small more directional antenna. The results were surpising. I am pretty much getting the identical reception results in signal strength and quality from this small Yagi style antenna. That unfortunately includes the same pixelation issues!

Sometimes reception is a crapshoot!


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Call some of your local roofing contractors and see if they have any guys that work for them that would be interested in a small side project. It is going to cost you to have someone bring and set up a ladder and install your antenna. If you can get that done for under $200 you will be lucky.
> 
> By the way I just replaced my great highly regarded CM4228 antenna with a much smaller less regarded RCA Yagi ANT751. I did this because I thought my problem with pixelation on some of my channels like 21.1 WLIW and now CBS 2.1 were due to the antenna capturing too much signal including a bunch of Philly stations perhaps introducing co-channel or other interference. This happens even tough I am almost 30 miles due east of NYC! My antenna is only pointing south ever so slightly and Philly is to my south west 60 plus miles! So I thought it would be interesting to try this small more directional antenna. The results were surpising. I am pretty much getting the identical reception results in signal strength and quality from this small Yagi style antenna. That unfortunately includes the same pixelation issues!
> 
> Sometimes reception is a crapshoot!


That is basically the same results I had with all antennas I tried, they were all pretty much identical. With some small ones really impressing me by being exactly as good (and as bad) as the bigger and stronger ones. I had a little RCA Fin looking powered antenna that did as good or better then all big ones. 
I said before that I'm like 20 miles away from source, I'm actually a lot less, closer to 10 miles actually. That's why because I saw how all performed the same, I figured it isn't a weak reception issue, that's why I never bothered installing the gigantic vhf lo element, cause I just have a feeling it will be the same issues


----------



## rolou21

May I suggest channel master 3016 or called Advantage 45. Using this antenna in Nassau county Long Island and it is great for Vhf lo. Have 0 issues receiving Vhf lo 3/33.1 Me tv.
FYI this covers 45mi radius.


----------



## KyL416

NRJ just filed to sell WZME to "TV-49, Inc" aka Weigel (MeTV's owners):
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...&id=25076ff37a62bcc4017a64196e9b087a&goBack=N

It looks like MeTV, Weigel and WZME are going to have the last laugh at WJLP for interfering with WEDW's plan to add an ESB DTS signal. According to their latest filing, WJLP's contract for MeTV ends on 9/30/22, while WZME's contract with ShopHQ's parent company is year to year, and their Sonlife deal doesn't expire until 12/2022.

When it's done, it will likely bring MeTV+ to the market, and H&I and Decades might move too, but odds are Start and Movies! will stay with WCBS and WNYW because of the spectrum sharing with WEDW and CBS and Fox having partial stakes in those networks. It will also give the NYC DMA access to the live stream on MeTV's app which is limited to markets with Weigel O&O MeTV stations.


----------



## ansky212

So at this point what would be the timeline for WEDW to get the DTS up and running? 6 months? A year?


----------



## KyL416

No timeline yet, according to the STA extension they filed last week, they're waiting for the order to be final.



> On June 25, 2021, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit issued an unpublished order dismissing PMCM’s appeal. See PMCM TV, LLC v. FCC, Case No. 201334 (D.C. Cir. Slip Op. June 25, 2021) (the “June 25 Order”). The June 25 Order is not yet final


----------



## Joseph Rubin

[QUOTE="Antenna Man PA, post:
Hey Tyler? I saw your video about the air tv anywhere, I'm totally interested in ordering that wineguard deal. But I have a quick question for you. The reason I didn't get it till now is cause everyone was saying online that you cannot pause live tv. Only recorded. Which for me is the most used part of a DVR, so huge deal breaker. But I see you mention quickly in your video that you can pause live tv. You didn't elaborate on any details, like how long the limit is, and how the fffwd through commercials is, etc etc.
So please clarify, is it a update that made this possible? Is it also working on Android TV?
Next question, would there be a point in paying someone to switch my rooftop antenna from a simple CM stealth. To the one they offer in the bundle? It no point really? Is still get the package cause it's cheaper than buying airtv alone.
Thanks I'm advance for any advice you can give me


----------



## ughAudio

I can't believe how many subchannels are crammed in RF3/MeTV/Virtual 33.

Testing out an antenna tonight from Philadelphia area and the new scan had this RF and subs.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ughAudio said:


> I can't believe how many subchannels are crammed in RF3/MeTV/Virtual 33.
> 
> Testing out an antenna tonight from Philadelphia area and the new scan had this RF and subs.
> 
> View attachment 3155350


Your getting those in PA??! You lucky...... It's a vhf lo channel, I have issues with it in Brooklyn, 10 miles from the source. And you get it all the way in PA?? Wow! And ya I think it has like 15 channels total, but a few are audio only channels. I love the retro tv channel they recently added


----------



## LenL

Rubin and Ughaudio,

display channel 33.1 etc from Philly is actually a UHF channel RF 32.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Rubin and Ughaudio,
> 
> display channel 33.1 etc from Philly is actually a UHF channel RF 32.


Ahhhhhh that makes a lot more sense


----------



## KyL416

WZPA-LD/32 from the Philly DMA wouldn't have the PSIP labels for WJLP, and they only have 33.1-33.7, they don't have 33.8-33.14 or WNWT-LD's 37.x channels. Atmospheric boost is common this time of the year, especially with the current weather pattern we're having, and for much of eastern PA and southern NJ it only takes the slightest amount of boost for WJLP to come in.

4 of WJLP's channels are audio only, while the Marine Weather channel on 33.10 and 37.2 point to the same audio and video stream. They also squeeze in some more space by only using 128kbps or 112kbps for audio instead of the usual 192kbps. Here's a TSReader output from May:
https://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/ny-nyc/86537-0_0.htm


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Yay! I'm kinda excited, I have my original installer coming back maybe tomorrow to install my Wineguard HD7000 antenna on my roof. He installed the current one, which is a very simple n basic type, CM stealth, his work was as good as can be, he even raised it further on a 5' pole, and reception has been as good as can be. But because of my issues with my channel returning, I wanna try a antenna with a VHF Lo element. Which the HD7000 has. So I'm hoping that will finally solve it (unless the issue was never about reception but rather local interference.... I hope not).
So I'm excited to finally have a vhf lo antenna setup, cause I was avoiding it till now cause of it's size. But I'm happy he is coming to install it for me. 
I'll report back the results....


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Joseph Rubin said:


> Yay! I'm kinda excited, I have my original installer coming back maybe tomorrow to install my Wineguard HD7000 antenna on my roof.


Yay! The installer just finished changing my rooftop antenna from the CM stealth, to my Wineguard HD7000 that I've had for years in the box still. I figured my only thing left to try at this point, is a antenna with a VHF Lo element. And so far it does show an approvement on my Vhf Lo channel. (RF 3, virtual 33's). Before I had it at signal Strength: 70-85. Signal Quality: 100 most of the time. Till issues started than it would fluctuate. Now with the new one, both Signal Strength, and Quality, are both at a solid 100 now. I really hope it stays this way.


----------



## Brian in CT

Joseph, nice installation. I see you have an obstruction (tall building) in the path of your signals. Additionally, you are surrounded by many possible sources of RF noise. They might have been part of your problem to begin with. Glad WJLP is now coming in strong and clear.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Brian in CT said:


> Joseph, nice installation. I see you have an obstruction (tall building) in the path of your signals. Additionally, you are surrounded by many possible sources of RF noise. They might have been part of your problem to begin with. Glad WJLP is now coming in strong and clear.


Yup. Good observation! Cause that's the one thing the installer kept mentioning too, that building. That's why he originally raised the original antenna higher up on a pole, to try to overcome that obstacle as much as possible. And again all other channels from 1 WTC are perfectly fine. Even including RF 3, it plays perfectly most of the time. Except for when those intermittent issues would start.
So far it's been perfect all day since the antenna swap. 100 Signal Strength, 100 Signal Quality. No issues so far. Hoping and praying it stays this way.

Btw I was talking via email today to the station manager of Metv (Jim). I told him I installed a Vhf Lo antenna today, and knowing my luck, now that I did, they will announce any day now that they're moving to another RF channel. Probably UHF.... So I'll basically have this gigantic element up there, for no good reason...
He responded that the fcc giving them a new RF channel is about as much chance was winning the lottery. So I guess they're not moving any time soon


----------



## KyL416

WJLP or any of NYC's other full power VHFs can't move to UHF. The band is full because it is too close to Philly, so anything occupied by a Philly station can only be used for LPTV signals:
14 - Reserved for Land Mobile in NYC
15 - Reserved for Land Mobile in NYC
16 - Reserved for Land Mobile in NYC
17 - WPHL/WUVP
18 - WMBC
19 - Reserved for Land Mobile in Philly, with a special land mobile license for parts of Long Island
20 - Reserved for Land Mobile in Philly, so it can only be used by LPTVs in the NYC area
21 - WEDW/WZME
22 - WDVB-CD/WTBY
23 - WFTY
24 - WNYE
25 - WWOR/WRNN
26 - WFUT/WXTV
27 - WNYW
28 - WCAU/WWSI
29 - WLNY
30 - KYW
31 - WTXF
32 - WLIW
33 - WPSG
34 - WPXN
35 - WNJU/WNBC
36 - WCBS


----------



## LenL

Rubin,

It would appear that your installation is NOT legit as your mast is not grounded. According to code it should be. Is your coax grounded before it comes into the apartment?


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> Rubin,
> 
> It would appear that your installation is NOT legit as your mast is not grounded. According to code it should be. Is your coax grounded before it comes into the apartment?


Good catch, LenL. I hope there is a grounding block somewhere we can't see, because I'd be surprised an antenna installer would forget something that important. You don't want a lightning strike to take out your television and possibly cause a fire.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Rubin,
> 
> It would appear that your installation is NOT legit as your mast is not grounded. According to code it should be. Is your coax grounded before it comes into the apartment?


It is grounded, at the ground before entering my window


----------



## RMinNJ

RMinNJ said:


> Is WNYW from NY (RF channel 27 Virtual channel 5) operating at reduced power? I started testing with a small antenna again and was able to pull in only CBS(uhf 27), NBC(uhf 35) and ABC (7vhf). Not sure if its doable where I am with trees.
> *RabbitEars.Info*


So I found a spot about 5 ft off the ground , better than one side of the roof, where my little ANT751 is pulling in all the 
NYC stations.. WNYW Fox was weakest level but viewable. PBS 13 (RF 12?) signal was fairly strong. Raising it up to about 8 or 9 feet in this location it even starts to pull in WLIW 21 PBS. I have not tried
the one end of the roof closest to this location (which would be a closer cable distance) ... but Im stumped.. I tried
a clear day and rainy day and it still pulled in the stations. I can't help but think maybe its the smoke particles in the
air from the west helping reflect the signal ?


----------



## LenL

Why It’s Important:
To reduce the chances of your antenna or mast being 
struck by lightning, follow the National or Local Electrical 
Codes to properly ground these items during installation. 
Grounding will eliminate static electricity, as well as protect 
against energy to the mast if the antenna comes in contact 
with live electrical wires. 
*The National Electrical Code includes the requirements 
for grounding your antenna or mast in Article 810. Please 
consult the NEC, a local licensed electrician, or a local 
electrical inspector for details. *
Grounding the Mast
Outdoor masts should be grounded with Grounding 
Conductors (see F in diagram) to the building’s Power 
Service Grounding Electrode System (see E) at a 
permitted location. Please consult the NEC Article 810.21 
for a complete listing of permitted connection points.
Grounding the Coaxial Cable
Install the Coaxial Cable (see A) and Grounding Block 
(see B) near the point where the coaxial cable enters 
the building. Connect a permitted Grounding Conductor 
(see F) from the Grounding Block (see B) at a 
suitable connection location and as close to the Power 
Service Grounding Electrode System (see E) in 
accordance with NEC or your Local Electrical Codes. 



https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/pdf/Grounding-Info.pdf


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Wow. I'm really really optimistic now that this new antenna I installed (or had installed, tbh) did the trick. I'm really hopeful that this solved my intermittent issues on my channel. Cause now with the Vhf Lo element, the channel is now 100 signal strength, and the last 2 days I didn't even see a blip, nothing! The picture is as stable as if it's a DVD playing. I guess that whole all other antenna picked up the channel as well, but they were just not the right tool for the job kinda. This is. Now it feels like I have the right tool, this picks up RF channel 3 the best I've ever gotten it.
All other channels are basically exactly the same as they were before, with RF channel 3 showing a big improvement in signal strength...
Really hoping those issues don't come back. I'm optimistic it won't


----------



## Brian in CT

RMinNJ said:


> So I found a spot about 5 ft off the ground , better than one side of the roof, where my little ANT751 is pulling in all the
> NYC stations.. WNYW Fox was weakest level but viewable. PBS 13 (RF 12?) signal was fairly strong. Raising it up to about 8 or 9 feet in this location it even starts to pull in WLIW 21 PBS. I have not tried
> the one end of the roof closest to this location (which would be a closer cable distance) ... but I'm stumped.. I tried
> a clear day and rainy day and it still pulled in the stations. I can't help but think maybe its the smoke particles in the
> air from the west helping reflect the signal ?


I doubt it's smoke particles. Your new antenna location could be where multipath isn't as much of a problem. It could be a less interfering path through all those trees you said were nearby. Since ATSC 1.0 is so temperamental to begin with, small changes in antenna location can bring significant swings in signal quality. Whatever it is, hope your better reception stays good.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> There's your issue. Your current antenna doesn't have any low VHF elements. The Winegard HD7000R is one in a comparable size with low VHF capability.


Thanks for the advice Tyler!
I already knew that I'm missing the Vhf Lo element. Heck that's why I bought the HD7000 antenna years ago, only cause I knew it has Vhf Lo. But I never actually had it installed, cause I didn't think this was the issue given that I'm so close to the source.
But after you said it, I figured I have nothing to lose, why not have it installed and see the results......
Since having it installed like 4 days ago, the channel has been on 100 signal strength. Zero issues so far.
So thanks again for the advice. I don't think I would of installed it if not for you saying so. And I think this really solved my issues


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Joseph Rubin said:


> Thanks for the advice Tyler!
> I already knew that I'm missing the Vhf Lo element. Heck that's why I bought the HD7000 antenna years ago, only cause I knew it has Vhf Lo. But I never actually had it installed, cause I didn't think this was the issue given that I'm so close to the source.
> But after you said it, I figured I have nothing to lose, why not have it installed and see the results......
> Since having it installed like 4 days ago, the channel has been on 100 signal strength. Zero issues so far.
> So thanks again for the advice. I don't think I would of installed it if not for you saying so. And I think this really solved my issues


Good to hear. Consider supporting my YouTube channel by watching the videos or making a contribution on the website. The more people who directly support me the more time I am able to spend on forums like this helping people with bad reception.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> Good to hear. Consider supporting my YouTube channel by watching the videos or making a contribution on the website. The more people who directly support me the more time I am able to spend on forums like this helping people with bad reception.


I watch and love all your you tube videos. Some have been very informative! Thanks for doing this. I'll support the channel in any way I can. (I'm considering getting the AirTv anywhere because of the deal from Wingard I learned about through your video).


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Joseph Rubin said:


> I watch and love all your you tube videos. Some have been very informative! Thanks for doing this. I'll support the channel in any way I can. (I'm considering getting the AirTv anywhere because of the deal from Wingard I learned about through your video).


The AirTV is best if you're in a bad reception zone and plan on putting it in a friend or relatives home to access their OTA channels over the internet. From a DVR perspective the Tablo is better. The Winegard bundle is definitely a good deal.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> The AirTV is best if you're in a bad reception zone and plan on putting it in a friend or relatives home to access their OTA channels over the internet. From a DVR perspective the Tablo is better. The Winegard bundle is definitely a good deal.


I have the HDMI version of the Tablo... Biggest disappointment ever! Tuner doesn't pick up some channels with perfectly strong signals (including my favorite channel, metv). When I spoke to them, they said yes we see the tuner is getting them with strong signal, but it can't lock onto them, and it's not their fault, but the stations fault, something about the format they're broadcasting in isn't up to code so the tuner can't get a probe into it (quoting his words here). So I actually tracked down and got a hold of the metv channel manager, told him the issue and what they said. He laughed and asked me, so how come every other tuner you have picks us up perfectly fine? Only tablo has the "up to code" type tuner? Lmao. He emailed me charts showing how they fully comply with every standards..I emailed it to tablo never heard back.
So idk. Maybe the online version of tablo is a lot better than this HDMI version. But this version is crap! Even with the tuner issue aside. There is no info button or banner or ANYTHING to show what your watching right now. Nothing! If you wanna see the show name n info and gotta exit the live tv screen by going back, then you'll exit back into the guide screen where you can see the show info. I couldn't believe this is is so. But it is
So given that it doesn't get my favorite channel (and a few other), and how crappy the rest of it is. So I'm not paying them a penny in monthly fees, I even unplugged the box altogether..... Huge disappointment. (Maybe online ones are better. Idk)


----------



## ansky212

I have been using the Amazon Fire Recast DVR for the past 2 years and it works very well. It was getting better reception than my Tivo.


----------



## ughAudio

KyL416 said:


> WZPA-LD/32 from the Philly DMA wouldn't have the PSIP labels for WJLP, and they only have 33.1-33.7, they don't have 33.8-33.14 or WNWT-LD's 37.x channels. Atmospheric boost is common this time of the year, especially with the current weather pattern we're having, and for much of eastern PA and southern NJ it only takes the slightest amount of boost for WJLP to come in.


I posted a pic from the screen and you saw the PSIP's. Yeah, this wasn't a Philly station!

Unsure if it's only summer boost; I was "cheating" with a broken down Winegard:












KyL416 said:


> 4 of WJLP's channels are audio only, while the Marine Weather channel on 33.10 and 37.2 point to the same audio and video stream. They also squeeze in some more space by only using 128kbps or 112kbps for audio instead of the usual 192kbps. Here's a TSReader output from May:
> https://www.rabbitears.info/screencaps/ny-nyc/86537-0_0.htm


Wow, the reduction in the audio bitrate accounts for all of those channels squeezed in, huh? VERY interesting to know.... was wondering what they were when the tuner brought them in:










GREAT information KyL416! Thank you.

-ughAudio


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> I have been using the Amazon Fire Recast DVR for the past 2 years and it works very well. It was getting better reception than my Tivo.


I was considering this option as well. But from what I could find online, I gathered that it only works with FireTv?? So since my smart tv is Android TV I won't be able to use it unless I connect a fire tv stick? That is a huge deal breaker for me.
Do you know if they have a Android app to watch it?


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> I was considering this option as well. But from what I could find online, I gathered that it only works with FireTv?? So since my smart tv is Android TV I won't be able to use it unless I connect a fire tv stick? That is a huge deal breaker for me.
> Do you know if they have a Android app to watch it?


To my knowledge the Recast only works with Fire TV devices or mobile Android devices. You can get a Firestick on sale for $25. So if you have 5 TV's like I do it is much more cost effective than other devices like Tivo. Also let's say you're going out of town on vacation, you can pack your Firestick and connect it to the TV where you are staying and still be able to access your local channels and DVR recordings (or just watch on your Android phone/tablet).


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> To my knowledge the Recast only works with Fire TV devices or mobile Android devices. You can get a Firestick on sale for $25. So if you have 5 TV's like I do it is much more cost effective than other devices like Tivo. Also let's say you're going out of town on vacation, you can pack your Firestick and connect it to the TV where you are staying and still be able to access your local channels and DVR recordings (or just watch on your Android phone/tablet).


Hmmmm..... You know what ...hmmmm. I really might get it. No monthly fees..... I might do it.
Thanks for the info


----------



## ughAudio

LenL said:


> Rubin,
> It would appear that your installation is NOT legit as your mast is not grounded. According to code it should be. Is your coax grounded before it comes into the apartment?





Brian in CT said:


> Good catch, LenL. I hope there is a grounding block somewhere we can't see, because I'd be surprised an antenna installer would forget something that important. You don't want a lightning strike to take out your television and possibly cause a fire.





Joseph Rubin said:


> It is grounded, at the ground before entering my window


https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/20210719_122324-jpg.3156058/

Is a ground/bond for the mast required, or just the coaxial required for a building/apartment?


----------



## LenL

ughAudio,

Both the mast and coax need to be grounded.


----------



## KyL416

Rewind TV will be coming to WPIX 11.4 on September 1st


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Rewind TV will be coming to WPIX 11.4 on September 1st


Exactly what I predicted. Glad to see that garbage TBD network go away.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> Exactly what I predicted. Glad to see that garbage TBD network go away.


I'm not really familiar with the Rewind channel. But anything must be better than that TBD trash. (I'm glad THIS channel also finally returned, used to be 11.3)


----------



## pabuwal

Speaking of WPIX, any word on the power boost?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

pabuwal said:


> Speaking of WPIX, any word on the power boost?


Are they on reduced power??? That would explain why I never picked it up very good.... Hmm. 
If you find out any more info on the power boost, please post here. I wanna know that myself 
Thanks


----------



## LenL

WPIX is getting a power boost? I think that is wishful thinking. I think rabbit ears would know if there is any truth to this happening any time this year. Applying for something and actually doing it are 2 different things.


----------



## KyL416

Earlier this year they were granted a minor modification to increase their power from 7.5 kW to 26 kW after the FCC lifted the freeze on modifications back in November.

The main reason why they couldn't file for an increase until recently is because under the Tribune ownership WPIX had to protect WBRE Wilkes Barre (Nexstar), WTNH New Haven (ex-LIN/Media General) and WWLP Springfield (ex-LIN/Media General), but after WPIX was sold to Mission, Nexstar now operates all of the RF 11 and RF 10 stations that needed to come to a mutual interference agreement to allow an increase.


----------



## LenL

KyL416,

So are they at increased power 26kW now? Or are they at 7.5kW? How can we find this out?


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> KyL416,
> 
> So are they at increased power 26kW now? Or are they at 7.5kW? How can we find this out?


According to the Rabbitears site, WPIX has a construction permit for the 26kW transmitter, valid until March 2024. So they still have plenty of time to install new equipment and do whatever else needs to be done for the power increase.


----------



## LenL

The question I have is how will we know they increased it to 26 kW? Is there anyone who can measure it? Will they make an announcement on the WPIX website? Will RabbitEars.info show it? So many questions.


----------



## KyL416

They'll file for a license to cover with the FCC whenever they complete the upgrade.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Can anyone tell me what's the deal with virtual channel 63? I love the Quest channel, it's on virtual channel #63.2. I think it's broadcasting from 1WTC the same as all other channels I get. But for some reason their signal has always been much much weaker than the other channels.
I still get a very watchable signal, just the numbers are always low ..
Are they operating on a lower power than the rest? Or is it maybe not at 1 WTC??
Any info would be appreciated


----------



## KyL416

Right now WMBC has two RF 18 signals, their main signal from WNJN's old tower in Montclair, NJ, and a DTS repeater at Empire. Back in November they were granted a construction permit to move everything to 1WTC's upper antenna, but there's no timeline on when they will make that move.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> Right now WMBC has two RF 18 signals, their main signal from WNJN's old tower in Montclair, NJ, and a DTS repeater at Empire. Back in November they were granted a construction permit to move everything to 1WTC's upper antenna, but there's no timeline on when they will make that move.


Thanks for the info... But is the Empire signal a regular full power signal? Or weaker then the rest? Cause I always pick it up, but with weak numbers.
I'm just wondering if it's weak because it's coming from Empire and I'm pointed at 1WTC? or cause it's a repeater is it a weaker signal then regular?


----------



## KyL416

WMBC's Empire signal is only 90 kW and lower in height than the other major Empire signals like WPIX, WABC and WFUT/WXTV.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> WMBC's Empire signal is only 90 kW and lower in height than the other major Empire signals like WPIX, WABC and WFUT/WXTV.


Haaaa all those channels you mentioned are the ones I don't get perfectly strong signals on. Now I know why. Lol. Thanks


----------



## marlowja

Slightly off topic but very much related to the New York market - I've noticed that on PBS websites when searching for local stations, WLVT and WPPT out of Bethlehem/Allentown are presented as options when using a Staten Island ZIP Code:











This is also reflected on YouTube TV, which presents WLVT as a PBS feed in Staten Island ZIP Codes, in lieu of WLIW:










ZIP Codes in other boroughs include WLIW. This seems strange to me, given that WLIW reception is very strong on Staten Island while WLVT is definitely not viewable - is there some way WLVT was able to invoke must-carry for Staten Island, but not for the other boroughs? WLVT isn't on Spectrum, FiOS, Dish, or DirecTV?

Anecdotally NJ PBS has a lot of viewership in Staten Island given the stronger OTA reception from Montclair and New Brunswick than in other parts of NYC, so that makes sense, but WLVT seems to be a pretty strange, especially when reflected on official PBS websites as well.


----------



## KyL416

Technically Staten Island is within their contour, but unless you have a deep fringe directional VHF-Hi antenna pointed in the opposite direction from the NYC stations so W09CZ-D from Roslyn doesn't interfere, and little to no VHF ambient noise issues, most of Staten Island has no chance of getting it reliably.

Because of PBS's educational roots many of their secondary and tertiary stations serve areas that straddle DMA lines, so PBS's online streaming doesn't stick to Nielsen DMAs. Since WLVT and WPPT transmit from the Lehigh Valley in PA near where the Philly, NYC and Scranton DMAs meet, they pretty much include it for all of eastern PA, New Jersey and some parts of NY state that are also in their contour. For cable and satellite, WLVT and WPPT can only claim must carry status within the Philly DMA, so outside of some bordering counties like Monroe, Carbon, Pike, Luzerne, Schuylkill, Warren and Hunterdon, their cable carriage is limited to the Philly DMA. Satellite providers on the other hand are required to use Nielsen DMAs, so even in bordering counties like that where the signal is strong, there is no way for either Dish or DirecTV to give it to counties in the NYC and Scranton DMAs.

For WLIW, PBS is still using their pre-repack Plainview signal instead of their post-repack 1WTC signal to assign zip codes.


----------



## MadMan400096

KyL416 said:


> Technically Staten Island is within their contour, but unless you have a deep fringe directional VHF-Hi antenna pointed in the opposite direction from the NYC stations so W09CZ-D from Roslyn doesn't interfere, and little to no VHF ambient noise issues, most of Staten Island has no chance of getting it reliably.
> 
> Because of PBS's educational roots many of their secondary and tertiary stations serve areas that straddle DMA lines, so PBS's online streaming doesn't stick to Nielsen DMAs. Since WLVT and WPPT transmit from the Lehigh Valley in PA near where the Philly, NYC and Scranton DMAs meet, they pretty much include it for all of eastern PA, New Jersey and some parts of NY state that are also in their contour. For cable and satellite, WLVT and WPPT can only claim must carry status within the Philly DMA, so outside of some bordering counties like Monroe, Carbon, Pike, Luzerne, Schuylkill, Warren and Hunterdon, their cable carriage is limited to the Philly DMA. Satellite providers on the other hand are required to use Nielsen DMAs, so even in bordering counties like that where the signal is strong, there is no way for either Dish or DirecTV to give it to counties in the NYC and Scranton DMAs.
> 
> For WLIW, PBS is still using their pre-repack Plainview signal instead of their post-repack 1WTC signal to assign zip codes.


I know that from experience. When I put in my area on the PBS site, I get both WGBY New England Public Media and CPTV suggested to me. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, since I've always gotten both through cable, and I get them through an antenna (though WEDH/WEDY doesn't come in all that reliably), and if anything, I'm glad to have more options beyond my own market - though I've since gotten a VPN, so I get more choices no matter what.


----------



## sam008

__





RabbitEars.Info


RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.




www.rabbitears.info





Winegard Company Compact lVideo Antenna (HD7000R)

Guys - I've had an antenna mounted above my detached garage for 4 years and things have been fine but last few weeks, I lost a bunch of channels at once - WIL21, Ch13, CUNY TV and some others which are the less popular ones. Other big networks are still working fine like NBC, CBS, etc and I still get about 50 digital channels but the ones that matter most to be are the public network channels but I do know their broadcast towers are a little further away and they work off the low VHF band from what I remember. Also I do know my antenna height isn't great but somehow I managed to get most channels

Question - did something materially change or possible that my antenna's low band VHF module has gone bad?

Thx


----------



## LenL

Sam008,

You will need to provide a lot more info in order for us to help you.

Where are you located?
Are there trees and other obstacles between your antenna and the broadcast towers?
Do you use amplifiers or preamps and if so which ones?
Do you split the signal to several devices?
How long is the coax run between the garage mounted Antenna and the house TV (s)?
Have you checked the coax for damage?
Have you checked all of the connections at the antenna for corrosion or loosness?
How does the coax get from the detached garage to the house? Above or below ground?


----------



## Brian in CT

[/QUOTE]


sam008 said:


> Winegard Company Compact lVideo Antenna (HD7000R)
> 
> Guys - I've had an antenna mounted above my detached garage for 4 years and things have been fine but last few weeks, I lost a bunch of channels at once - WIL21, Ch13, CUNY TV and some others which are the less popular ones. Other big networks are still working fine like NBC, CBS, etc and I still get about 50 digital channels but the ones that matter most to be are the public network channels but I do know their broadcast towers are a little further away and they work off the low VHF band from what I remember. Also I do know my antenna height isn't great but somehow I managed to get most channels
> 
> Question - did something materially change or possible that my antenna's low band VHF module has gone bad?
> 
> Thx


Before you do anything else, you should do another "scan for channels" on your TV to see if that brings back your missing TV stations. If you already did that, then we'll need some more information like LenL suggested above.

BTW, the only VHF-Lo full-power TV station in NYC is WJLP on RF channel 3. The ACTUAL TV channel a station is transmitting on is listed in parenthesis under the "channel" column of your RabbitEars report. For example, WNET is on RF 12 (VHF-Hi) and WLIW is on RF 32 (UHF).


----------



## marlowja

I've been thinking a bit about the current bitrate allocation for the WLIW/WNET/WNDT/WMBQ OTA collective, and it dawned on me that it doesn't make very much sense. WLIW Create and World have fairly high quality schedules, but the current variable bitrate allocation for these channels has led to them being nearly unwatchable with motion blocking and compression artifacts. Examining the bitrate feeds via my ATSC tuner, the breakdown for video feeds is currently:

WLIW 21.1 (1080i) ~7.5-8Mbps
WLIW Create 21.2 (480p) ~1.25Mbps
WLIW World 21.3 (480p) ~1.25Mbps
ALLARTS 21.4 (1080i) ~5.5-6Mbps

I understand that ATSC 1.0 limits bandwidth to ~18Mbps, and my list above does not include audio so bitrate limitations are even tighter than I account for, but I question the utility of offering AllArts in 1080i, when higher quality PBS/APT programming from Create and World are made borderline unwatchable to accommodate it. I've noticed other 480p channels are actually quite nice to watch (Quest on WMBC 63.2 comes to mind) when they're given enough of a bitrate to breath (around 2-3Mbps), so it's a shame that Create and World are not allocated a reasonable portion of the bandwidth.

One possible solution I can envision is related to the duplication of FNX across WNDT 14 and WMBQ 46. Given that these are on the same WNET RF, it seems needless to have both HD and SD versions (a PSIP duplication would be more understandable, but that's not the case). It is great that a valuable indigenous-centered service is in 1080i on 14-1, so I have no qualms with that. But I do wonder if the duplicate SD version on 46-1 (currently allocated ~2.5-3Mbps) would be better served as a host for either World or Create. Since WMBQ and WNDT are both sharing spectrum with WNET on the same RF, this would not negatively impact OTA viewer access to FNX, who would likely be tuning into the HD service on 14-1 anyway.

Essentially I am wondering if either World or Create were moved to the higher bitrate SD feed on 46-1, WLIW could free up one of its subchannels and reallocate that bandwidth to the remaining SD one to improve its fidelity, all while leaving the current HD variable bitrate allocations for WLIW 21.1 and AllArts 21.4 unchanged?


----------



## KyL416

Class A stations are not eligible for must carry status, so moving Create or World there would put their cable carriage at risk since not a single cable provider carries WMBQ-CD or WNDT-CD.

This also might not be the final format for either station. After they sold their spectrum in the auction, their former owner donated their NYC licenses to WNET and donated their Boston sister station WFXZ-CD to WGBH. Since they're seperate Class A licenses they don't have the restrictions that the main 13-x channels have. (i.e. in Boston GBH is carrying the commercial diginet BizTV on WFXZ-CD)


----------



## marlowja

KyL416 said:


> Class A stations are not eligible for must carry status, so moving Create or World there would put their cable carriage at risk since not a single cable provider carries WMBQ-CD or WNDT-CD.
> 
> This also might not be the final format for either station. After they sold their spectrum in the auction, their former owner donated their NYC licenses to WNET and donated their Boston sister station WFXZ-CD to WGBH. Since they're seperate Class A licenses they don't have the restrictions that the main 13-x channels have. (i.e. in Boston GBH is carrying the commercial diginet BizTV on WFXZ-CD)


That's understandable - but even with the lack of must-carry on WMBQ-46, it seems inefficient to use those 2.5Mbps on VHF-12 to duplicate FNX in SD. At the very least they could either duplicate Create or World in higher quality SD, or actually just mirror NJ PBS to extend its OTA reach into the eastern half of the DMA. I suspect the real reason is that they don't want to cannibalize WNET viewership, despite their content heavily trending toward borderline infomercial nutrition seminars and filmed standard def concerts from the 1990s these days...


----------



## ALP

What is going on out there this morning? Last night we had breakup with Channel 11 ( CW ). This morning the only two channels I can get are 2 ( CBS ) and 4 ( NBC ) the rest ( 5, 7, 11, and 13 ) are all dark.


----------



## ALP

So whatever is going on here it is very intermittent. Right now here in Pleasantville, NY we have clear blue skies and I can see no reason for intermittent reception. On my newest TV I can now get all channels except 5 ( Fox ) which was just fine last night.


----------



## LenL

On August 11, 2021 at 2pm, FEMA and the FCC are planning a Nationwide Emergency Alert Test. Test messages will be sent to TVs and radios, as well as cell phones that have opted-in to receive test messages.The emergency alert signal will last about five minutes. *At that point, your TV channels will be temporarily interrupted.*Once the test is complete, you *may* need to reboot your equipment to resume watching TV. To do this, unplug the power, wait 5-10 seconds, then plug the power back in.To learn more about the alert, please visit fema.gov for more information.


----------



## trailblazer

ALP said:


> What is going on out there this morning? Last night we had breakup with Channel 11 ( CW ). This morning the only two channels I can get are 2 ( CBS ) and 4 ( NBC ) the rest ( 5, 7, 11, and 13 ) are all dark.


I have similar problems but the signals eventually come back. For instance al signals out of Philly when down in signal level and I completely lost Fox 29 (signal level when from 70% to 0 and fluctuated between 20 to 40%). After about a half an hour the signal strength normalized again. Very annoying problem but with the repack whereby stations are tightly spaced you will see these issues during the summer months.


----------



## ALP

Guys, Thanks for the input. - Tony


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Hey again guys ..
Been a little while since I last posted here. I then had swapped my Rooftop antenna to the Winegard HD7000R. And so far it's still performing perfectly. I've had no issues on my MeTv channel. Which was the only reason I swapped to this one. (Cause this one has Vhf Lo elements)...
He just had the Hurricane Henri pass through here, was pouring rain for like 2 days, my signal was perfect like any sunny day. Not a flicker....
I'm so glad I finally after years of trying n trying, figured out the reason I continuously had issues on the Metv channel, (RF 3). Glad that seems to be over...

I have a question....
Does anyone pick up (virtual) channels 42.1 .2 .3 etc ?? I never every picked it up with any antennas I've tried over the years. Didn't even know about it. But today just before I ran a channel scan on my Channel Master Stream+. And they popped up! I believe in RF 2. But while it found it, it didn't play when I tuned to it. Said weak signal.. I looked it up online, says it's a low powered station, but it's coming from 1wtc?? And I never picked up only like 10 miles from 1wtc??? Then who can\does pick it up??? Anyone here?


----------



## KyL416

It's WKOB-LD, which is a really low power station on RF 2. It has Azteca America, Daystar, Estrella and some other channels. They have a construction permit to move to 1WTC on RF 13 with more power and spectrum share with WASA-LD, so I wouldn't focus on trying to pick up their RF 2 signal right now since their latest filing says they expect to have the move done this fall.

It actually started out as WCBS's translator on channel 53 in the 1970s before being sold off in the late 80s, and spent most of the 2000s hopping around as it got displaced during the various steps of DTV transition. (First by WFUT's transitional signal on 53, then by WSAH's digital signal on 42, and now it used WDPN Philly's power increase as a reason to leave RF 2 for RF 13)


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> It's WKOB-LD, which is a really low power station on RF 2. It has Azteca America, Daystar, Estrella and some other channels. They have a construction permit to move to 1WTC on RF 13 with more power and spectrum share with WASA-LD, so I wouldn't focus on trying to pick up their RF 2 signal right now since their latest filing says they expect to have the move done this fall.
> 
> It actually started out as WCBS's translator on channel 53 before being sold off in the late 80s, and spent most of the 2000s hopping around to various channel numbers as it got displaced during the various steps of DTV transition. (First by WFUT's transitional signal on 53, then by WSAH's digital signal on 42, and now it used WDPN Philly's power increase as a reason to leave RF 2 for RF 13)


Ok ok ok. Wow you know a lot! Thanks. 
So it's currently not yet at 1 WTC .. where is it now? Esb? 
And ya I'm not gonna try anything to pick them up. I'm very satisfied with my current antenna setup. But good to hear that they will be available later. I guess 13 was recently vacated by pbs going to 12. So they will be on 13. Ok ok. Hopefully then I'll get it easily with my current setup .
Cool 
Thanks again


----------



## KyL416

They're at the Trump World Tower near the UN:
https://www.rabbitears.info/tower.php?request=site&asrn=1268297


----------



## tavistock

How will a move to RF13 impact WHYY in Philly


----------



## KyL416

It won't, it's going to be a highly directional signal pointing away from Philly and it passed all the interference checks.

Compared to their current situation with WDPN:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour...25076f916b48c6aa016b578358ba1a5f&cir=&circen=


----------



## pabuwal

That WPIX...needs to boost their power soon...


----------



## Joseph Rubin

pabuwal said:


> That WPIX...needs to boost their power soon...


I always had issues as well picking up Channel 11. After a while I learned not to adjust the antenna anymore if everything else works fine. Cause that channel was coming n going, working perfectly sometimes, choppy at other times .. I tuned to it now to check it. Works fine for now, but I wouldn't count on it staying this way.
The guys here should know more info about when they'll boost it. (These guys know everything!)
Funny I think Channel 11 and 7 are the only channels now left that are the Same RF channel number as its Virtual channel number. 13 used to be, but recently moved to RF 12, so I believe only 7 and 11 are left now. They stand as reminders of simpler times. Lol.


----------



## pabuwal

Joseph Rubin said:


> I always had issues as well picking up Channel 11. After a while I learned not to adjust the antenna anymore if everything else works fine. Cause that channel was coming n going, working perfectly sometimes, choppy at other times .. I tuned to it now to check it. Works fine for now, but I wouldn't count on it staying this way.
> The guys here should know more info about when they'll boost it. (These guys know everything!)
> Funny I think Channel 11 and 7 are the only channels now left that are the Same RF channel number as its Virtual channel number. 13 used to be, but recently moved to RF 12, so I believe only 7 and 11 are left now. They stand as reminders of simpler times. Lol.


I have a second antenna I use just for WPIX. I'd like to use that second antenna for WPVI and WHYY but can't until WPIX boosts their power.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

pabuwal said:


> I have a second antenna I use just for WPIX. I'd like to use that second antenna for WPVI and WHYY but can't until WPIX boosts their power.


I hear ya, n feel ya...
For me it's different cause like 10 miles maybe from downtown Manhattan, so separate antenna isn't an option really. And Tbh I wouldn't even really care too much if it was just The Wpix channel (11.1). I never watch it, so it would be nice to have it as an option to flip through, but I wouldn't really care of I didn't get that.. but I did care a lot more about the antenna channel, and they used to carry the This channel as well, those 2 channels I didn't wanna lose, those are why I kept trying for it. But then they dropped This for CourtTv, so I cared only half as much now. Cause it was only the Antenna channel now left that mattered to me. So I stopped really caring, I setup my antennas that as long as everything else works fine, it's considered perfect..... But since I had my rooftop antenna swapped like 2 months ago, to the Winegard HD7000r (needed a Vhf Lo) I've been getting a pretty clean signal for 11. Not perfect like all others even those coming from the same location. It will always be a lower strength than the others, but lately it's like the new antenna is just strong enough to overcome it and give a clean picture. But lately it was posted here that the Rewind channel is coming this month to 11.4 (currently TBD, aka trash). So that will make it more valuable to me again.
Would be nice if they (or anyone else for that matter) would add the Comet channel.


----------



## ALP

pabuwal said:


> I have a second antenna I use just for WPIX. I'd like to use that second antenna for WPVI and WHYY but can't until WPIX boosts their power.


What is different about your second antenna? Is it on a second mast?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

So freaking sad to see what happened to Locast! I really thought they are here to stay. I guess the big networks and their lawyers pulled it off. Really sad


----------



## pabuwal

ALP said:


> What is different about your second antenna? Is it on a second mast?


It's a low VHF antenna I'd like to point towards Philly but I can't because WPIX needs it's own.


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Joseph Rubin said:


> So freaking sad to see what happened to Locast! I really thought they are here to stay. I guess the big networks and their lawyers pulled it off. Really sad


It was bound to happen. The networks won't let anything get in the way of their $12 billion yearly retransmission fee revenue. Even if Locast won the NFL would eventually go after them since there's money there too. 

Most people should be fine without Locast if they put an actual effort into their antenna setup. Too many purchase basic small directional antennas expecting stellar results.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

[QUOTE="Antenna Man PA, post: 61006097, member: 9467542"

Most people should be fine without Locast if they put an actual effort into their antenna setup. Too many purchase basic small directional antennas expecting stellar results.
[/QUOTE]

You couldn't be more right. Till like 2 years ago that's exactly what I used. Small cheap powered antennas, and since my MeTv (VHF Lo) was constantly having issues, I was using locast a lot more then (with stremium app I had DVR functionality). But then I invested a little extra in a proper rooftop installation, and I had no use for locast anymore. 
So it's EXACTLY like you said...
But it was a very useful option to have available, for on the go watching on the phone app, to having it as a secondary source for when regular antenna isn't working properly .... It was a good and reliable backup plan.
Oh well. Another win for the big networks, a loss for us the viewers\users


----------



## Kascnef82

is anyone getting bad reception on fios on wcbs hd ? seems blurry at times and is bad. watching on a Samsung ru7100 4k tv upscaled from fios one tv. has been this way since yesterday.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Kascnef82 said:


> is anyone getting bad reception on fios on wcbs hd ? seems blurry at times and is bad. watching on a Samsung ru7100 4k tv upscaled from fios one tv. has been this way since yesterday.


I think most of us here are cord cutter using OTA antennas. Na?


----------



## Kascnef82

any eta on atsc 3.0?


----------



## Brian in CT

Kascnef82 said:


> any eta on atsc 3.0?


Since the owners of the four major networks (who own all their affiliates plus a few other TV stations in the NYC DMA) have not made ATSC 3.0 a priority, I would think it will take awhile before the NYC market gets a station to convert. As of lately, their marketing departments have been busy pushing their streaming platforms.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Kascnef82 said:


> any eta on atsc 3.0?


Hey good question! They kept saying This Fall. That's almost here. Boy I hope they keep it.
I recently purchased my first none HDMI connected DVR\tuner. I got the Hd Home Run, Flex 4k. Which has 4 total tuners, 2 of which are 3.0 compatible. 
(I really love it, I use it with Kodi, it's fantastic! Setup was almost too easy. And use it almost exclusively since getting it)
So now with these 2 compatible tuners, I'm really excited about the coming system upgrade. Till now I was under the impression that any 3.0 tuners currently available, which are very few. Are all insanely pricey. So while I was curious about and followed the whole 3.0 technology. But didn't really care about it coming locally cause I thought it would be years till, A: I'll realistically own a tuner or DVR that is 3.0 compatible. B: till I'd be willing to spend any amount extra for it because it will be a long long time till most channels switch over to it and fully utilize it's potential. For now we're far far from that, from I've seen online about it anyway. (Tyler's videos on it were awesome).. but since I unexpectedly and almost suddenly, ended up with 2 compatible tuners..(and not at all the crazy prices I heard it was. This kick-ass box is only $199!) So I am now excited if I'll get any 3.0 broadcasts at all. 
So ya, I went off a little about the topic. Cause I'm also NOW very curious to know when we're getting it.
I bet you these guys here will know exactly what the situation with it is.
I'm gonna be looking out for responses to this one


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Sweeeeet! 11.4 is already Rewind! No more TBD! yes


----------



## LenL

Only if you are one of the few who receive 11.1 and its subs. It is the only VHF channel that I can't receive. I get all of the NY stations 100/70-100 strength/quality but for 11.1.


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> Sweeeeet! 11.4 is already Rewind! No more TBD! yes


They switched to Rewind on 9/1.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Only if you are one of the few who receive 11.1 and its subs. It is the only VHF channel that I can't receive. I get all of the NY stations 100/70-100 strength/quality but for 11.1.


I'm surprised to hear that. Because I used to have the exact same situation, where all channels would be perfectly strong, except for 11 was horrible weak... It was so bad that I stopped trying to get it, I just focused on picking up all others....
But for the last few months I've been getting a perfectly strong n clean signal for it, so I thought they finally boosted their power. But from what you're saying it sounds like they haven't fixed it yet. So I have no idea why I'm getting it perfectly all of a sudden....
But sorry to hear about your trouble with it. Hopefully they fix it soon


----------



## ansky212

<Delete>


----------



## KyL416

WZME 43.1 is switching to MeTV Plus on 9/27

Digi-TV, a new diginet that features mostly UK and Australian imports, will launch on WFTY 67.6 on 9/27.


----------



## Asmgomrjsurf

You beat me to that about MeTV Plus and non Weigal station.


----------



## ansky212

Asmgomrjsurf said:


> You beat me to that about MeTV Plus and non Weigal station.


Weigel is buying WZME.









MeTV Owner Buys Former NYC-area Affiliate | Radio & Television Business Report


From Jan. 4, 2012 until fall 2015, it was the home of MeTV for the New York Tri-State area. The affiliation was dropped in favor of a new facility licensed to a town in New Jersey with coverage of the whole market. Now, MeTV is poised to return to a Bridgeport, Conn.-based digital UHF, as MeTV's...




www.rbr.com


----------



## KyL416

They already purchased it. The sale was consummated back on September 1st.

WZME's contract with ShopHQ's parent company is up at the end of the month, but they are stuck with Sonlife on 43.2 until December 2022. By that point WJLP's contract with MeTV would have expired, so I wouldn't be surprised if MeTV moves to 43.1 in Fall 2012, and MeTV Plus replaces Sonlife on 43.2 a few months later.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> They already purchased it. The sale was consummated back on September 1st.
> 
> WZME's contract with ShopHQ's parent company is up at the end of the month, but they are stuck with Sonlife on 43.2 until December 2022. By that point WJLP's contract with MeTV would have expired, so I wouldn't be surprised if MeTV moves to 43.1 in Fall 2012, and MeTV Plus replaces Sonlife on 43.2 a few months later.


And hopefully by that time the WEDW/WZME DTS will finally be on the air from ESB. If it's not then most of the NYC DMA will lose OTA coverage of MeTV.


----------



## KyL416

WJLP's coverage isn't anything to brag about either, especially when you consider the people who either refuse to get a full band antenna, don't have the ability to install one, or are stuck with ambient noise issues that originate from outside of their household.

In some other markets Weigel only has LPTV or Class A signals, but because Weigel also owns some Big 5 affiliates in the midwest, they are able to include them in their nationwide retrans deals to get local cable carriage. i.e. Hartford where WHCT-LD is now on the local Comcast system. In some other markets like Denver their O&O full power station is on the fringes of the market, so they partner with another full power station to get MeTV in city coverage via a SD simulcast on a subchannel.


----------



## Asmgomrjsurf

Good to know.


----------



## yanksNYC123

I'm looking for recommendations for an OTA antenna for NYC. I'm located 21st st and 6th ave in manhattan and have unobstructed south facing exposure with a clear line of sight to the freedom tower. I also have northern exposure , though I can only see the top of the empire state building.

I apologize if this is the wrong topic to post this in. Thank you in advance


----------



## ansky212

yanksNYC123 said:


> I'm looking for recommendations for an OTA antenna for NYC. I'm located 21st st and 6th ave in manhattan and have unobstructed south facing exposure with a clear line of sight to the freedom tower. I also have northern exposure , though I can only see the top of the empire state building.
> 
> I apologize if this is the wrong topic to post this in. Thank you in advance


You should be fine with an indoor antenna. You'll want to make sure that whatever antenna you choose is capable of VHF reception so that you can pull in WABC, WPIX, WNET, and WJLP.


----------



## yanksNYC123

ansky212 said:


> You should be fine with an indoor antenna. You'll want to make sure that whatever antenna you choose is capable of VHF reception so that you can pull in WABC, WPIX, WNET, and WJLP.


Thank you very much


----------



## Brian in CT

yanksNYC123, if you live in a concrete or cinder block building, you will probably need to put your indoor antenna near a window to receive the VHF TV stations. Those types of building materials will block VHF signals. In addition, you may have to worry about multipath if (like most of Manhattan) you are surrounded by tall buildings that can bounce the signal around. So you'll need to be patient while finding a "sweet spot" for the placement of your antenna.

Hopefully, none of this will be a problem in your situation. I just thought you should know about some of the pitfalls of receiving ATSC 1.0 in an urban landscape. Good luck.


----------



## yanksNYC123

Brian in CT said:


> yanksNYC123, if you live in a concrete or cinder block building, you will probably need to put your indoor antenna near a window to receive the VHF TV stations. Those types of building materials will block VHF signals. In addition, you may have to worry about multipath if (like most of Manhattan) you are surrounded by tall buildings that can bounce the signal around. So you'll need to be patient while finding a "sweet spot" for the placement of your antenna.
> 
> Hopefully, none of this will be a problem in your situation. I just thought you should know about some of the pitfalls of receiving ATSC 1.0 in an urban landscape. Good luck.


Good to know. Thank you. I ordered the Mohu Leaf Metro and will report back once I try it out.


----------



## LenL

It's not too late for you to check out this website for info and help if you decide you need more help if your antenna does not work well.









Antenna Man - Cut The Cord


Antenna Man provides antenna reviews, cord cutting reception tips, and other information about getting free over the air TV by an antenna




www.antennamanpa.com


----------



## Antenna Man PA

LenL said:


> It's not too late for you to check out this website for info and help if you decide you need more help if your antenna does not work well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antenna Man - Cut The Cord
> 
> 
> Antenna Man provides antenna reviews, cord cutting reception tips, and other information about getting free over the air TV by an antenna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.antennamanpa.com


Thanks for mentioning my website. I'm pretty sure it would fall under self-promotion if I said anything about it. I'm up to over 5,000 antenna recommendation requests now. NYC seems to have a multipath issue along with WABC and WPIX being severely underpowered.


----------



## Brian in CT

Antenna Man PA said:


> NYC seems to have a multipath issue along with WABC and WPIX being severely underpowered.


Actually, WABC booms into my place at 50 miles from the ESB. So it can't be THAT underpowered. WPIX, on the other hand, could definitely use more signal, with me only getting a "mild" decode.

BTW, I like the "internet shorts" you produce. Keep up the good work!


----------



## LenL

I'm only about 30 miles as the crow flies from both the ESB and 1WTC and I can get 7.1 WABC fine but like you 11.1 WPIX is not receivable. Although signal strength does indicate 100%, signal quality is down to close to zero. So not sure if a boost in power will improve reception for me unless there is some sort of relationship between broadcast power and signal quality.


----------



## ansky212

Antenna Man PA said:


> Thanks for mentioning my website. I'm pretty sure it would fall under self-promotion if I said anything about it. I'm up to over 5,000 antenna recommendation requests now. NYC seems to have a multipath issue along with WABC and WPIX being severely underpowered.


WABC wouldn't really be considered underpowered. WPIX and WNET are though. Here are the ERP's from Rabbitears:

WABC: 34kW
WPIX: 7.5kW
WNET: 6.5kW


----------



## hancox

ansky212 said:


> WABC wouldn't really be considered underpowered. WPIX and WNET are though. Here are the ERP's from Rabbitears:
> 
> WABC: 34kW
> WPIX: 7.5kW
> WNET: 6.5kW


Power is only 1/2 of the equation, though - WABC needs more as you go down the VHF band to compensate. They are all underpowered for being on VHF.

2 of the 3 are on ESB, too.


----------



## Trip in VA

The VHF band is narrow enough that the power differential across the band is negligible, probably a fraction of a dB. Whatever the differential is, I'm sure it's smaller than the 34 kW vs 7.5 kW differential between WABC and WPIX.

- Trip


----------



## hancox

Trip in VA said:


> The VHF band is narrow enough that the power differential across the band is negligible, probably a fraction of a dB. Whatever the differential is, I'm sure it's smaller than the 34 kW vs 7.5 kW differential between WABC and WPIX.
> 
> - Trip


I agree, and IANAEE, but my (overly simplistic) statement also (badly) encompasses the antenna side. Bigger antenna and/or more signal needed as you go down the band. 
I'm more summarizing from the end-user POV.


----------



## LenL

Also important is design and quality of materials used. A better designed smaller antenna can out perform or perform as well as a bigger antenna. Seen this first hand. So going bigger is not always the answer but can be. 

Antennaman PA welcome to add his expert advice.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> They already purchased it. The sale was consummated back on September 1st.


[/QUOTE]

Oh wow! Wow wow wow! That is HUUUUGE developments for my primarily watched channel, MeTv. Wow wow.
I just had this feeling that when I finally had enough and installed a full band antenna (mainly adding Lo VHF) that they will then move the channel from RF 3 to probably a high UHF number. I even asked Jim, the MeTv local station manager if that's a possibility, he responded that them getting the FCC permission to move to UHF is as likely as winning the lottery jackpot. So I'm really surprised by this development mentioned here, but I guess he didn't consider this possiblity of them buying another channel, he was only considering if the FCC would just let them move to another RF channel..... Idk.
I'm gonna email him and see what he says is happening, if he knows that is. I'll report back what he says, if....


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> WJLP's coverage isn't anything to brag about either, especially when you consider the people who either refuse to get a full band antenna, don't have the ability to install one, or are stuck with ambient noise issues that originate from outside of their household.


Ughhhhhhh!!!! You have no idea how many years of trying and changing and trying and changing, everything from antennas, to better cables (quad shielded), to splitters, EVERYTHING! Everything I could possibly blame the interference on, I changed. Sometimes it would be perfect for a few weeks and I'd start relaxing about it, then........ Noise again...
And to be clear, the only reason I never even tried a Vhf Lo antenna was because everyone I asked told me that at only 10 miles from the source any good antenna should pick it up no issues. And they all do pick it up fine with a strong enough signal, just that household ambient noise just kept causing issues.
Till I found this thread, and was told by Tyler, and others, to just use a antenna built to pick up channel 3. So up went my HD7000r and I've had a flawless stable picture on my channel since....
Ya, true that the long gigantic elements make it a bigger thing to deal with. But for me it's on my building's roof anyway, can't even see it from the street (I wish I could, but I can't find a position where it's visible from), so I could of, and should of installed it long before.

And now it's very possible that the whole VHF Lo will be rendered useless, if metv leaves there is nothing really left. I guess it's better, to make all the smaller antennas more fully compatible


----------



## Joseph Rubin

So.......
I got a response from Jim, the MeTv local station manager. He has no idea what I'm talking about, he is saying there is no way it is moving any time soon...... Here is his exact words....

"LOL, I did not win the lottery so….. Grin. There is ZERO chance it is true, but I would love to read about it. Where did you see that? Can you email me the link?"


----------



## KyL416

WJLP and MeTV are not the same company. WJLP and WNWT are owned by PMCM, the MeTV network is owned by Weigel, who also now owns WZME. WJLP's contract with MeTV is slated to expire next year, if Weigel decides to bring the affiliation in house to 43.1 WZME (RF 21 shared with WEDW), WJLP and WNWT and the rest of their 33.x and 37.x diginets will still be on RF 3 and it would be up to PMCM to find something else to put on 33.1.


A better question for Jim would be why the hell is his parent company still trying to block W41DO-D from moving to RF 33 (See Page 15) if they are well aware they will never be able to leave VHF, a full power NYC signal will never be able to use RF 33, and we already had countless examples in NYC alone of similar RF/virtual situations going back to the 2009 transition:
WCBS virtual 2 vs pre-repack WKOB-LD RF 2
WNBC virtual 4 vs WPXO-LD RF 4
WNYW virtual 5 vs WNYX-LD RF 5
WWOR virtual 9 vs W09CZ-D RF 9
WNET virtual 13 vs WKOB-LD RF 13
WLIW virtual 21 vs WEDW RF 21
WNYE virtual 25 vs WWOR RF 25 and pre-repack WASA-LD RF 25
WPXN virtual 31 vs WHTV-LD RF 31
WJLP virtual 33 vs pre-repack WCBS RF 33
WXTV virtual 41 vs pre-repack W41DO-D RF 41
WNJU virtual 47 vs pre-repack WLNY RF 47
WNJN virtual 50 vs pre-repack WBQM-LD RF 50 (now WNWT-LD sharing with WJLP)

And if they think their MeTV affiliation is safe after the contract expires, why is their legal team throwing eveything they can at their baseless attempt to block WEDW/WZME from getting a DTS signal at Empire even though they as a Fairfield Connecticut station have every right to have a repeater in NYC, just how WJLP, a former Nevada station who exploited a FCC loophole to move to Northern New Jersey, had every right to move their signal from Ely NV to 4 Times Square and get a construction permit to move to 1WTC...

This is also the same company who initially attempted to illegally use virtual 6 for WNWT-LD, even though it was an obvious conflict with WPVI and WRGB, and fought to the end to try to use virtual 3 for WJLP even though it was an obvious conflict with WFSB and KYW, a failed battle that kept them off of several cable and satellite providers like Optimum and DirecTV for years as they didn't have to honor their initial must carry request until the virtual number situation was settled.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

He is only the local manager, I'm sure he had nothing to do with the legal company stuff... 
But I sent him a link to this thread, so maybe he'll see this and respond himself. Would be nice to have him aboard here..

But hold on! Are you telling me my metv channel is right now coming from times square?? I was so sure they're already at 1wtc!!!


----------



## pabuwal

My WPIX signal strength is as high as WABC. Anyone else seeing the same?


----------



## jrampoldi

pabuwal said:


> My WPIX signal strength is as high as WABC. Anyone else seeing the same?


I'm getting 92% on PIX & 87% on ABC. I'm on the 4th floor in Hoboken, NJ using a indoor antenna.


----------



## LenL

Yes I am now receiving WPIX 11.1. It may be they increased power or it is just tropo due to the storms out in the Atlantic and to our north. The test will be if reception stays good.


----------



## pabuwal

LenL said:


> Yes I am now receiving WPIX 11.1. It may be they increased power or it is just tropo due to the storms out in the Atlantic and to our north. The test will be if reception stays good.


Mine has come down so I think there was some tropo involved. But it's still higher than usual.


----------



## LenL

Actually my signal strength has always been 100% for WPIX. It is signal quality that has been close to zero. Now it is over 40% and enough for me to lock in on the signal. This may indeed be due to tropo changes.


----------



## marlowja

Scripps subchannel Newsy is live on WPXN 31-7 in a decently watchable 480p. Certainly better than whatever the hell NewsNet is on WJLP is. It’d be nice if WCBS carried CBSN OTA but Newsy is nice enough.


----------



## Trip in VA

WPIX has filed a license to cover, so it is presumably now running 26 kW.

- Trip


----------



## Brian in CT

Trip in VA said:


> WPIX has filed a license to cover, so it is presumably now running 26 kW.
> 
> - Trip


Ahh. So that's why they've been more solid for me (and better for others) in the last number of days.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

marlowja said:


> Scripps subchannel Newsy is live on WPXN 31-7 in a decently watchable 480p. Certainly better than whatever the hell NewsNet is on WJLP is. It’d be nice if WCBS carried CBSN OTA but Newsy is nice enough.


Wow. I love it, 31 really overhauled their subchannels! I love it. I love the Defy and TrueReal Additions, and now another news channel. Sweet 
With that said, I don't think Newsy will become my primary source of news..... But still nice to have options I get


----------



## MadMan400096

For those of you wondering whether WJLP will lose MeTV, it wont.

Weigel's actually buying it from PMCM!

Also, WNWT.


----------



## ansky212

MadMan400096 said:


> For those of you wondering whether WJLP will lose MeTV, it wont.
> 
> Weigel's actually buying it from PMCM!
> 
> Also, WNWT.


Well in that case I hope this finally brings closure to the WZME dispute and they can finally get the DTS up and running.


----------



## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> Well in that case I hope this finally brings closure to the WZME dispute and they can finally get the DTS up and running.


Weigel buying WJLP could result in the DTS of WEDW not being constructed. A primary reason behind the DTS might have been that WZME (a channel sharing guest of WEDW) wanted signal coverage in New York City. Weigel recently bought WZME and may not support building the DTS to have a broadcast site in New York City when it will get a broadcast site by buying WJLP.


----------



## ansky212

logger-a said:


> Weigel buying WJLP could result in the DTS of WEDW not being constructed. A primary reason behind the DTS might have been that WZME (a channel sharing guest of WEDW) wanted signal coverage in New York City. Weigel recently bought WZME and may not support building the DTS to have a broadcast site in New York City when it will get a broadcast site by buying WJLP.


The DTS makes WZME much more valuable. There would be no reason for Weigel to not support building it out. I would even venture a guess that the DTS factored into the price they paid for the station as it would mean signal coverage (and possibly cable carriage) for the majority of the NYC DMA which WZME does not have currently.


----------



## LenL

Quick poll how many of you have an antenna and also have a cable or sat hook up? I have both.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> Quick poll how many of you have an antenna and also have a cable or sat hook up? I have both.


I use an antenna for local news and network primetime shows. I also have subscriptions to Netflix, Hulu, and Prime. No cable/satellite for me.


----------



## LenL

ansky212,

Question. Don't you have cable or Verizon to feed your Hulu, Prime and Netflix? Otherwise how do you get those subscriptions?

This is my point for the survey. There are many of us who use an antenna who also have cable, Verizon or satellite. Some surveys will rule out those of us who have an antenna but also have a cable, Verizon or Sat feed to our house. We are not included in households that are OTA.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> ansky212,
> 
> Question. Don't you have cable or Verizon to feed your Hulu, Prime and Netflix? Otherwise how do you get those subscriptions?
> 
> This is my point for the survey. There are many of us who use an antenna who also have cable, Verizon or satellite. Some surveys will rule out those of us who have an antenna but also have a cable, Verizon or Sat feed to our house. We are not included in households that are OTA.


Oh I thought you were talking about cable TV. I have Fios internet at home. I would assume most people have a cable/Fios internet connection.


----------



## Trip in VA

Anyone seeing WXNY-LD on 23? Coverage should be as shown: https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f917bc77871017bcb87f8aa02cf&site=1&map=Y

- Trip


----------



## SBRUSKI

Trip in VA said:


> Anyone seeing WXNY-LD on 23? Coverage should be as shown: https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f917bc77871017bcb87f8aa02cf&site=1&map=Y
> 
> - Trip


WXTV-DT Patterson NJ, is coming in clear on 23.1.
The signal strength matches WLNY from Ridge NY. 13 miles to my east. 82 signal strength.

Signal does not jive with posted WXNY-LD linked in the post.
I'm 1/2 way out on Long Island. It should be no signal here.

23.1 -23.6 new channels for me.
True Crime 
Grit
UniMas
en Vivo
/Mystery
digiTV
I can tune in manually, But not lockable by the "Add New Channel" feature.

Can't walk away these days without a few new channels on broadcast.
3 weeks ago PBS Channel 13 (12RF) moved to WHYY on spoof channel 12 (12RF) only to move back by morning.


----------



## Trip in VA

You're seeing WFTY (67-x) which is on RF 23. But this is the one in New York aimed at New Jersey. I'm wondering if anyone's seeing it.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Anyone seeing WXNY-LD on 23? Coverage should be as shown: https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f917bc77871017bcb87f8aa02cf&site=1&map=Y
> 
> - Trip


I'm located in West Orange, NJ within the "yellow" zone on the map. I have an outdoor antenna pointed at NYC and I'm not picking them up.


----------



## SBRUSKI

Trip in VA said:


> You're seeing WFTY (67-x) which is on RF 23. But this is the one in New York aimed at New Jersey. I'm wondering if anyone's seeing it.
> 
> - Trip


You are correct on the 67x.
But channel 67.1 is showing WXNY as channel 67.1. Rebroadcasting on WFTY, I'm sure.
Not the NJ broadcast of WXNY-LD here.


----------



## LenL

Not seeing WXNY-LD on 23 out by me.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

So, Jim, the local WJLP station manager told me that they will be moving temprorarily to 1WTC in like a week or so, while doing system maintenance at 4 Times Square, for like a week or 2. And then move back to Times Square.....
I was surprised by this because this shows that they're not planning to move permanently to 1WTC anytime soon.... 
I wonder if we will notice a difference when they change it over


----------



## KyL416

They're not moving their main facility to 1WTC anymore. Two weeks ago they filed to make the 4 Times Square 26.5 kW STA that they've been operating on since Summer 2019 their main facility, and the 1WTC site their aux/backup facility. The licenses to cover were granted yesterday.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> They're not moving their main facility to 1WTC anymore. Two weeks ago they filed to make the 4 Times Square 26.5 kW STA that they've been operating on since Summer 2019 their main facility, and the 1WTC site their aux/backup facility. The licenses to cover were granted yesterday.


Oh ok, that makes sense. So that means they will use their backup site, 1WTC, to perform system maintenance.... Then back to the usual ..
I guess I'm ok with this now, now that I finally have a Vhf Lo antenna and getting a perfect signal for RF3, I'm getting it 100-100. So I'm good where they are.
Btw i just love 33.8 must be a recent addition. Loving it


----------



## ansky212

Is there any way to know when they will install equipment for the WZME DTS and start testing? I assume something would need to be filed with the FCC when that takes place.


----------



## mrradiohead55

ansky212 said:


> Is there any way to know when they will install equipment for the WZME DTS and start testing? I assume something would need to be filed with the FCC when that takes place.


FCC business with the station are on this page, top right are filings for various activities>






Facility Details « Licensing and Management System Admin « FCC


FCC License Modernization




enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov





Some things you would have to contact a member of the engineering team to find out status of certain activities. They may not necessarily reply.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> Is there any way to know when they will install equipment for the WZME DTS and start testing? I assume something would need to be filed with the FCC when that takes place.


I don't know, but I wish! Cause I'd love to get the MeTv+ Channel. (It's even in 720p HD). So it would be really nice if I could pick that up


----------



## Joseph Rubin

mrradiohead55 said:


> FCC business with the station are on this page, top right are filings for various activities>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Facility Details « Licensing and Management System Admin « FCC
> 
> 
> FCC License Modernization
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some things you would have to contact a member of the engineering team to find out status of certain activities. They may not necessarily reply.


I did speak via email to the station engineer for WJLP. he told me they will be switching over to 1WTC for a week or 2 to do maintenance at Times Square... It's possible it has something to do with maybe adding that channel.. but he didn't mention it. He just said system maintenance......


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> I did speak via email to the station engineer for WJLP. he told me they will be switching over to 1WTC for a week or 2 to do maintenance at Times Square... It's possible it has something to do with maybe adding that channel.. but he didn't mention it. He just said system maintenance......


The WZME DTS is going to broadcast from ESB, so I don't think any work that is being done at 4TS would be related.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

I just picked up the virtual 55's (Digital 29) for the first time ever.
It isn't very strong (in the 50's strength), but it's locked on solid. Plays almost flawlessly..
Anyone if they boosted their signal recently? Or is it just tropo\weather conditions?


----------



## KyL416

It's most likely the current weather pattern. WLNY doesn't have any granted or pending applications that would allow them to increase their power.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> It's most likely the current weather pattern. WLNY doesn't have any granted or pending applications that would allow them to increase their power.


No big deal anyway. Most subs I already have. The only good channel addition is Comet. That would be nice to have. But I can see it's already acting up. Won't last I guess


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> I just picked up the virtual 55's (Digital 29) for the first time ever.
> It isn't very strong (in the 50's strength), but it's locked on solid. Plays almost flawlessly..
> Anyone if they boosted their signal recently? Or is it just tropo\weather conditions?


It's definitely the weather. During warm weather conditions I can pick up WLNY almost every night from about 9pm through 9am the following morning.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

So funny! Not sure how this is possible. Channel 33.8 is Newsmax2. But for some reason, my 2 Channel Master Stream+ boxes, are both just not picking it up! How can that be??? How can it miss one sub channel that all other tuners get, when it is picking the RF channel with all other subs. Just this one sub missing, and on both of my Stream+ boxes! I ran a bunch of channel scans, nothing! Picks up all other of the 33's channels, Just this one sub, 33.8, is missing...

Does anyone here happen to be using a CM Stream+? If so can you please report if you do get 33.8? And I guess I'd love to hear from any of you if your getting this sub channel, or not.
Just FYI, I am getting it on my HD Home Run tuner, as well as on my CM DVR+


----------



## phil259

First ATSC 3.0 signal in the New York City metro area? It's on RF6 with only one program stream(720p). I'm near City Island using a rooftop antenna.


----------



## mrradiohead55

I presume this is WNYZ-LP, which had a CP to broadcast a digital signal. They were a Franken FM station, with an FM signal at 87.7 MHz, which is a Korean language radio station. IF you check your FM radio, you will probably find their signal is back on the air.

Jim

Edit- I checked WNYZ-LD's application status and they have filed a License to Cover for the ATSC 3.0 signal but it doesn't include an analog signal for FM.


----------



## LenL

phil259,

So what special equipment did you use to determine that it was an ATSC 3.0 signal?


----------



## mrradiohead55

LenL said:


> phil259,
> 
> So what special equipment did you use to determine that it was an ATSC 3.0 signal?


He's using a HDHomerun 4k unit and the signal is appearing as 106.1, which the HDHomerun unit does when it's a ATSC 3.0 signal. In other words, when a signal is received by the HDHomerun 4k unit that is ATSC 3.0, the channel number appears in the 100s. The tuner will also show that it is being received through an ATSC 3.0 tuner in the unit.


----------



## KyL416

If it hasn't returned yet, they already said that the NY Radio Korea 87.7 audio will be returning in the exhibit, they are just waiting for the license to cover to be granted before they file for the 87.7 FM STA and NextGen modification.

That screenshot has the logo of a local Korean church from Hicksville, so it looks like they are at least carrying local programming on their ATSC 3.0 channel instead of doing the bare minimum of throwing a random shopping channel on to satisfy the video requirement like many other Franken FM stations do.


----------



## SBRUSKI

Connecticut is up with ATSC 3.0.
AntennaWeb listing 4 stations using RF33.
Is anyone in NY seeing live ATSC3.0 feed yet from Connecticut?








My old Sony can smell RF33 activity. 4 channels listed as channels 20.1 - 20.4. No signal strength.
I'm antenna tuned to NYC.
Sony doesn't smell any signal using RF6.


----------



## SBRUSKI

Joseph Rubin said:


> So funny! Not sure how this is possible. Channel 33.8 is Newsmax2. But for some reason, my 2 Channel Master Stream+ boxes, are both just not picking it up! How can that be??? How can it miss one sub channel that all other tuners get, when it is picking the RF channel with all other subs. Just this one sub missing, and on both of my Stream+ boxes! I ran a bunch of channel scans, nothing! Picks up all other of the 33's channels, Just this one sub, 33.8, is missing...
> 
> Does anyone here happen to be using a CM Stream+? If so can you please report if you do get 33.8? And I guess I'd love to hear from any of you if your getting this sub channel, or not.
> Just FYI, I am getting it on my HD Home Run tuner, as well as on my CM DVR+


Can't speak for CM Stream boxes. But, I receive Newsmax2 on 33.8 and 3.19. Try using 3.19


----------



## Joseph Rubin

SBRUSKI said:


> Can't speak for CM Stream boxes. But, I receive Newsmax2 on 33.8 and 3.19. Try using 3.19


Thanks for responding....
First I'll answer your question in your first post. I just ran a channel search, and I didn't get any ATSC 3.0 channels at all. And I'm also not getting the channels 20.1 etc. (I don't really have a very strong long range antenna, cause I'm close to Manhattan, and I only really wanted to pick up the local channels perfectly. So my current antenna (Winegard HD7000r) is rated as a 40 miles range. So not very far I guess, so maybe a stronger one with a longer range could maybe pick up CT channels better (or Philly Channels for that matter)


And about your reply to my post, about the CM Stream+ not showing channel 33.8
It's not really a big issue for me, cause like I said, all my other boxes\tuners are playing it perfectly.
But I am very curious about your solution offered! What is that other channel you mentioned it's on? 3.19??? That's very interesting to me. Cause first, I don't have any channel 3's (in fact the 33.8 one is actually on RF3. But not virtual anymore). And second, I don't have any sub channel .19 , So please explain? What channels do have on 3 ? What is RF channel they're on? Also 3? 
Is it maybe a repeater signal for CT ?


----------



## SBRUSKI

Joseph Rubin said:


> I just ran a channel search, and I didn't get any ATSC 3.0 channels at all. And I'm also not getting the channels 20.1 etc. (I don't really have a very strong long range antenna, cause I'm close to Manhattan, and I only really wanted to pick up the local channels perfectly. So my current antenna (Winegard HD7000r) is rated as a 40 miles range. So not very far I guess, so maybe a stronger one with a longer range could maybe pick up CT channels better (or Philly Channels for that matter)


I'm mid long island North Shore.
Sony recognized channels on RF33 as virtual 20.1-20.4 
I'm out of range and underpowered with my Winegard 7035. But, My TV found these channels. 
I can't decode them anyway yet.
*Can anyone receive a working broadcast from ATSC 3.0 from Connecticut ? *



Joseph Rubin said:


> What is that other channel you mentioned it's on? 3.19??? That's very interesting to me. Cause first, I don't have any channel 3's (in fact the 33.8 one is actually on RF3. But not virtual anymore). And second, I don't have any sub channel .19 , So please explain? What channels do have on 3 ? What is RF channel they're on? Also 3?
> Is it maybe a repeater signal for CT ?


Channel 33.1 - 33.14 are all broadcast over RF3 bandwidth. 
For some reason my TV recognized both channel 3.19 and 33.8 These are the same channel. 
Just thought maybe your TV could see 3.19. manually keyed into the remote.
Since your fighting for 33.8.


----------



## hancox

SBRUSKI said:


> I'm mid long island North Shore.
> Sony recognized channels on RF33 as virtual 20.1-20.4
> I'm out of range and underpowered with my Winegard 7035. But, My TV found these channels.
> I can't decode them anyway yet.
> *Can anyone receive a working broadcast from ATSC 3.0 from Connecticut ? *


I'm getting it, but I'm in Monroe, at elevation. If your Sony is only seeing the old WCCT virtuals, have you tried rescanning?


----------



## SBRUSKI

hancox said:


> I'm getting it, but I'm in Monroe, at elevation. If your Sony is only seeing the old WCCT virtuals, have you tried rescanning?


Could be WCCT of old. Which are you getting RF33 or RF6?


----------



## hancox

SBRUSKI said:


> Could be WCCT of old. Which are you getting RF33 or RF6?


33


----------



## KyL416

RF 6 is WNYZ-LP, unless you have a deep fringe VHF-lo antenna, you pretty much have no chance of picking it up east of the Nassau-Queens border, while the signal drops out east of the Nassau-Suffolk border.

WCCT's RF 33 signal has somewhat decent coverage over northern Suffolk county. If your TV has an ATSC 3.0 tuner, you might need to do a double rescan on your TV to clear out the old ATSC 1.0 entries before it detects the ATSC 3.0 channels. Some models also list the ATSC 3.0 channels seperately from the ATSC 1.0 channels, so you might have to scroll past WFTY 67-x and/or WFUT 68-x to see them.

WCCT's RF 33 signal now has the following in ATSC 3.0:
3.1 WFSB (CBS)
8.1 WTNH (ABC)
20.1 WCCT (CW)
61.1 WTIC (Fox)

WCCT's ATSC 1.0 channels are now hosted by other stations:
20.1 CW is now on WTIC's RF 34 signal (co-channel with WPXN)
20.2 CourtTV and 20.3 Comet are now on WFSB's RF 36 signal (co-channel with WCBS)
20.4 Quest is now on WTNH's RF 10 signal


----------



## SBRUSKI

KyL416 said:


> RF 6 is WNYZ-LP, unless you have a deep fringe VHF-lo antenna, you pretty much have no chance of picking it up east of the Nassau-Queens border, while the signal drops out east of the Nassau-Suffolk border.
> 
> WCCT's RF 33 signal has somewhat decent coverage over northern Suffolk county. If your TV has an ATSC 3.0 tuner, you might need to do a double rescan on your TV to clear out the old ATSC 1.0 entries before it detects the ATSC 3.0 channels. Some models also list the ATSC 3.0 channels seperately from the ATSC 1.0 channels, so you might have to scroll past WFTY 67-x and/or WFUT 68-x to see them.
> 
> WCCT's RF 33 signal now has the following in ATSC 3.0:
> 3.1 WFSB (CBS)
> 8.1 WTNH (ABC)
> 20.1 WCCT (CW)
> 61.1 WTIC (Fox)
> 
> WCCT's ATSC 1.0 channels are now hosted by other stations:
> 20.1 CW is now on WTIC's RF 34 signal (co-channel with WPXN)
> 20.2 CourtTV and 20.3 Comet are now on WFSB's RF 36 signal (co-channel with WCBS)
> 20.4 Quest is now on WTNH's RF 10 signal


Long Island looks to be on the wanting list.
Don't think anyone is pulling a good signal from Hartford.
Unless I designate an antenna just to Connecticut. We are still blacked out of the game.
If someone is getting ATSC 3.0 in NY tristate area. I would like to hear about it.


----------



## logger-a

mrradiohead55 said:


> I presume this is WNYZ-LP, which had a CP to broadcast a digital signal. They were a Franken FM station, with an FM signal at 87.7 MHz, which is a Korean language radio station. IF you check your FM radio, you will probably find their signal is back on the air.


WYNZ-LD seems to have resumed broadcasting a FM radio signal. I live tens of miles outside of the coverage area. When my car radio is tuned to 87.7 MHz what sounds like Korean is sometimes audible. It was previously audible at more locations while driving when the station was broadcasting from a different site when licensed as an analog TV station.


----------



## Jay Stone

What happened to Stadium on 55-3? It’s now showing Charge


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KyL416

For whatever reason over the past year or so Sinclair has been slowly phasing out Stadium's OTA distribution in favor of their other diginets anytime their current affiliation deals come up for renewal.

TBD also found a new NYC home late last week on WMBC 63.3.


----------



## mrradiohead55

KyL416 said:


> For whatever reason over the past year or so Sinclair has been slowly phasing out Stadium's OTA distribution in favor of their other diginets anytime their current affiliation deals come up for renewal.
> 
> TBD also found a new NYC home late last week on WMBC 63.3.


Is it possible the reason why Sinclair would be distancing themselves from any sports services or networks is because they are investing in their own sports streaming service? Perhaps inclinations it could be tested as a OTA source? Just curious>









Sinclair raising $250M for new sports streaming service, sources say


Sinclair Broadcast Group is quietly raising money for a new service to stream Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association and National Hockey League games to fans over the Internet, The …




nypost.com


----------



## KyL416

That article is old, newer articles from last month say their original plans are dead in the water after both MLB and NBA said that their current rights deals do not allow for a DTC service. Also, the plans weren't for a national service, it was going to be a direct to consumer subscription service for viewers to get their local Sinclair owned RSN like Bally Sports and possibly YES or Marquee, similar to what TSN Direct and Sportsnet Now are up in Canada. Out of market viewers would have still needed to use MLB.tv, NBA.TV or ESPN+ for NHL and MLS.


----------



## ansky212

Jay Stone said:


> What happened to Stadium on 55-3? It’s now showing Charge
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm pretty sure you can find Stadium on Pluto TV and several of the other free streaming services.


----------



## Jay Stone

ansky212 said:


> I'm pretty sure you can find Stadium on Pluto TV and several of the other free streaming services.


Yes, I know. But it was nice having it OTA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## A8H

Wonder if it's worth reaimiing my antenna towards Hartford to see if my Sony tv can grab those Hartford atsc3 channels. I'm Stony Brook NY.


----------



## KyL416

If you're in a favorable location terrain wise, you should be able to get it in Stony Brook. Most of the town is in the medium indoor range on the propagation map, but there are a few deadspots in the area:
https://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f917be66537017c08dc69e826c2&site=1&map=Y


----------



## A8H

KyL416 said:


> If you're in a favorable location terrain wise, you should be able to get it in Stony Brook. Most of the town is in the medium indoor range on the propagation map, but there are a few deadspots in the area:
> https://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=25076f917be66537017c08dc69e826c2&site=1&map=Y


Antenna is outdoors on my roof. Will give it a shot this morning after the frost melts
Unfortunately, no go. No signal. It's a joke that nyc the biggest market in country has zero 3.0 running yet.


----------



## AVdamsel

Why can't I pick up ABC7 or Fox from Brooklyn Heights? 

Living in a brick building on the top floor (4th floor). No trees or taller buildings immediately around me. Using a Vansky antenna.

Tv Antenna Indoor, Digital Amplified Indoor HDTV Antenna, 1080p VHF UHF Television Local Channels Detachable Signal Amplifier and 16.5ft Longer Coax Cable

Never a problem picking up CBS, NBC, PBS...but never have been able to get ABC or Fox. Wanted to watch the Marathon today and am once again reminded of this problem.


----------



## DrDon

AVdamsel said:


> Why can't I pick up ABC 7 from Brooklyn Heights? Very frustrating.


Probably going to need much more information. See the Read Before Posting sticky at the top of this thread, starting with where it says "Next:" Might also throw in what you're using for an antenna and the kind of structure you're living in.

Doc


----------



## AVdamsel

DrDon said:


> Probably going to need much more information. See the Read Before Posting sticky at the top of this thread, starting with where it says "Next:" Might also throw in what you're using for an antenna and the kind of structure you're living in.
> 
> Doc


Thanks Doc - edited original post.


----------



## KyL416

The problem is, despite the false claims of supporting VHF on their Amazon page, you're using a mudflap antenna designed for UHF and WABC is on VHF 7. What little VHF reception you get is actually coming from the unshielded cable connected to the antenna and is highly dependent on the positioning of the cable.

Some advice, if you see an antenna listing on Amazon full of red flags like 4K/1080p, 250 Mile range, and graphics/descriptions that include cable only channels like HGTV, Bravo, Showtime, The Weather Channel and HBO, avoid them like the plague and if it's still possible, report the 3rd party seller to Amazon for false advertising.


In Brooklyn Heights you might be able to get away with just using a classic rabbit ears/uhf loop combo antenna. Since you're so close to lower Manhattan, the 1WTC stations should be very strong in the area, so I would aim for the Empire State Building. Like if your TV has a signal meter, focus on getting WABC (RF 7) and WPIX (RF 11) when adjusting your antenna.


----------



## mrradiohead55

KyL416 said:


> The problem is, desptie the false claims of supporting VHF on their Amazon page, you're using a mudflap antenna designed for UHF and WABC is on VHF 7. What little VHF reception you get is actually coming from the unshielded cable connected to the antenna and is highly dependent on the positioning of the cable.
> 
> Some advice, if you see an antenna listing on Amazon full of red flags like 4K/1080p, 250 Mile range, and graphics/descriptions that include cable only channels like HGTV, Bravo, Showtime, The Weather Channel and HBO, avoid them like the plague and if it's still possible, report the 3rd party seller to Amazon for false advertising.


I'm a regular Amazon customer and filed a complaint to Amazon for false advertising of the aforementioned product. They claim the small flat antenna will receive TV signals from 60-250 miles. Wow! Everyone needs one of those. And yes, they use subscription channels logos ($$) in the Amazon ad. I can't wait to start receiving SyFy and Discovery with that neat little pancake antenna.


----------



## AVdamsel

mrradiohead55 said:


> I'm a regular Amazon customer and filed a complaint to Amazon for false advertising of the aforementioned product. They claim the small flat antenna will receive TV signals from 60-250 miles. Wow! Everyone needs one of those. And yes, they use subscription channels logos ($$) in the Amazon ad. I can't wait to start receiving SyFy and Discovery with that neat little pancake antenna.


haha well - at least it got a few channels! Any advice on what I should look for instead?


----------



## Brian in CT

AVdamsel said:


> haha well - at least it got a few channels! Any advice on what I should look for instead?


Since you're so close to the NYC towers, an indoor rabbit ears (VHF) and loop (UHF) combo should do the trick. You say you have no obstructions nearby, so multipath problems and reflections should be minimal. The only problem is putting it in a brick structure. Brick is not ideal for VHF signals to penetrate through (although there's worse materials). It might be necessary to put your antenna in (or near) a Manhattan facing window to get the best results.

Hopefully, you will be able to find a quality small antenna online. Keep those receipts.


----------



## ansky212

AVdamsel said:


> haha well - at least it got a few channels! Any advice on what I should look for instead?


I highly recommend this antenna if you are able to put something outdoors or even out on a windowsill. I have been using this for over 6 years now and it has held up to the elements extremely well. I have also seen it for sale at Home Depot if you wanted to take a closer look at it before purchasing.









Amazon.com: TV Antenna - RCA Outdoor Yagi Satellite HD Antenna with Over 70 Mile Range - Attic or Roof Mount TV Antenna, Long Range Digital OTA Antenna for Clear Reception, 4K 1080P Silver : Electronics


Buy TV Antenna - RCA Outdoor Yagi Satellite HD Antenna with Over 70 Mile Range - Attic or Roof Mount TV Antenna, Long Range Digital OTA Antenna for Clear Reception, 4K 1080P Silver: TV Antennas - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## LenL

You have to be careful with this purchase because what is pictured is the very well made and desirable RCA ANT751*R* and what may ship is one of the other newer RCA ANT751 models that do NOT perform as well with OTA reception and are cheaper designs! Caveat emptor! I recently bought 4 of these and one was the ANT751E which comes in a smaller box and is 2 pieces that have to be fitted together. It also does not perform as well!

It appears the RCA ANT751R is not made anymore.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> You have to be careful with this purchase because what is pictured is the very well made and desirable RCA ANT751*R* and what may ship is one of the other newer RCA ANT751 models that do NOT perform as well with OTA reception and are cheaper designs! Caveat emptor! I recently bought 4 of these and one was the ANT751E which comes in a smaller box and is 2 pieces that have to be fitted together. It also does not perform as well!
> 
> It appears the RCA ANT751R is not made anymore.


You're right. I just checked the Home Depot website and it says the item is discontinued. I know I saw one in the store earlier this year. I should have grabbed it as a spare.


----------



## LenL

I saw the last one today remaining at the Walmart in the International Trade Center Mt Olive NJ. Once it is gone there will be no more.


----------



## SBRUSKI

A8H said:


> Antenna is outdoors on my roof. Will give it a shot this morning after the frost melts
> Unfortunately, no go. No signal. It's a joke that nyc the biggest market in country has zero 3.0 running yet.


From Smithtown. I was always able to receive analog 3 and 8. But never anything from Hartford CT. Used a dedicated North facing antenna. I set up due to weak analog channel 2 signal.
Just wonder what frequency 4k will use? High VHF?


----------



## KyL416

Smithtown is mostly blocked from WCCT's signal because of the hilly terrain. Areas closer to the Sound like Kings Park, Port Jefferson and Miller Place have a better chance of getting them. Their analog signal was very easy to pick up even with an indoor antenna in Smithtown where my grandma lived, but after the digital transition in 2009 channel 20 moved from their own tower near Waterbury to their sister station WTIC's tower which is further north and closer to Hartford.


If I were to guess based on recent developments in LA and Houston. If they can get enough stations on board to participate as ATSC 1.0 hosts, Fox might convert WNYW's RF 27 signal to ATSC 3.0, have WWOR and WNJU each pick up one of their SD subchannels and have FOX HD and the rest of their SD subchannels split between WABC and WPIX.

As for 4K OTA, that's not coming anytime soon as there's no bandwidth for 4K when multiple HD stations have to share their market's ATSC 3.0 signal until tuner penetration is high enough that the stations, their networks and advertisers deem it safe enough to convert the remaining ATSC 1.0 stations to standalone ATSC 3.0 signals without cutting off most of their OTA audience.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> I saw the last one today remaining at the Walmart in the International Trade Center Mt Olive NJ. Once it is gone there will be no more.


I just happened to see this on Amazon today. This looks like the same design as the discontinued RCA, and it's the same price:









Amazon.com: Amazon Basics HDTV Digital Outdoor TV Antenna with Mounting Pole : Electronics


Amazon.com: Amazon Basics HDTV Digital Outdoor TV Antenna with Mounting Pole : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## LenL

Ansky212 it is NOT the same antenna design if you look closely and compare the 2. I have 3 RCA ANT751R so I should know.


----------



## LenL

More info here:









Difference between RCA ANT751E and RCA ANT751R? Appleton, WI


https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=279958 Anybody know the difference between the RCA ANT751E and RCA ANT751R?




www.avsforum.com


----------



## rhrisch

I have a directional roof antenna pointed to the World Trade Center 33 miles away. I did a channel scan with a new TV which I assume has an ATSC 1.0 tuner. It found 85 antenna channels and 33 cable channels, even though there is no cable connection. How did it do that? Here is the break down of prime time broadcasting of the 85 channels the TV lists: 54 480i, 11 720p and 12 1080i plus 8 audio only channels. I think about 6 channels were broadcasting 5.1 surround sound along with 720p or 1080i video. So 5 years from now what will I find when I scan with my new ATSC 3.0 tuner? Approximately the same as before with an additional 5 2160 i or p channels? Has any NYC area station said they will get on the bandwagon in the foreseeable future?


----------



## P Smith

rhrisch said:


> So 5 years from now what will I find when I scan with my new ATSC 3.0 tuner?


We don't have such crystal ball


----------



## P Smith

rhrisch said:


> and 33 cable channels


<CORRECTED site name>
What are frequencies of the channels ? Did you check Rabbitears.info site?


----------



## LenL

*rhrisch

Is you TV connected to the internet via wired or wireless? What you think are cable channels may very well be internet delivered channels picked up by you smart TV.. *


----------



## rhrisch

LenL said:


> *rhrisch
> 
> Is you TV connected to the internet via wired or wireless? What you think are cable channels may very well be internet delivered channels picked up by you smart TV.. *


I have a wired connection to the Internet. What happens is: with the scan set to antenna mode it finds 85 digital channels by the 50% mark. Then the scan switches from antenna to cable and ends up with 118 channels. The TV's channel list has only the ones it found in the first half of the scan. How do I see the others? Is there an app for that purpose that I can download from the Google Playstore? Thanks for your help.


----------



## rhrisch

P Smith said:


> What is frequencies of the channels ? Did you check rabbityear site?





P Smith said:


> What is frequencies of the channels ? Did you check rabbityear site?


I googled rabbityear and couldn't find that website. But as I explained in another post, I have no idea what the frequencies of those 33 channels are.


----------



## DrDon

rhrisch said:


> I googled rabbityear and couldn't find that website. But as I explained in another post, I have no idea what the frequencies of those 33 channels are.


It's actually RabbitEars.com and the instructions on how to use it and what to post are here. Your set likely has an internet connection and has added certain streams its equipped to get to your guide. 

Posts merged into the NYC thread.


----------



## Carboncompound

Actually it's Rabbitears.info


----------



## DrDon

Carboncompound said:


> Actually it's Rabbitears.info


HA. Thanks. You'd think I'd have gotten that right as much time as I spend, there.


----------



## rhrisch

DrDon said:


> HA. Thanks. You'd think I'd have gotten that right as much time as I spend, there.


I found it difficult to navigate that site to find information. However, I installed an app called Live Channels which not only lists the antenna channels but hundreds (maybe even a thousand??) more. I think most are coming from a free TV app called Pluto. I still don't know what the 33 channels my TV found were but maybe now I am less curious. This is my first smart TV and I am astounded at what is out there.


----------



## Carboncompound

rhrisch said:


> I found it difficult to navigate that site to find information. However, I installed an app called Live Channels which not only lists the antenna channels but hundreds (maybe even a thousand??) more. I think most are coming from a free TV app called Pluto. I still don't know what the 33 channels my TV found were but maybe now I am less curious. This is my first smart TV and I am astounded at what is out there.


Like many here I have lots of equipment but it's all different. My Stream+ did exactly as you observed but even more. I got internet service a few months back and left the device on overnight. I have literally hundreds of "channels" in the guide. Most are streaming services and one-off channels that are replications of unique interests.

So your TV just got nosey and picked up some available channels. May all be free or not.


----------



## rhrisch

rhrisch said:


> I found it difficult to navigate that site to find information. However, I installed an app called Live Channels which not only lists the antenna channels but hundreds (maybe even a thousand??) more. I think most are coming from a free TV app called Pluto. I still don't know what the 33 channels my TV found were but maybe now I am less curious. This is my first smart TV and I am astounded at what is out there.


I decided that I was curious enough to call the TV manufacturer's helpline. The Hisense representative told me that after the antenna scan, the TV looks for channels, coming into its coax input, from cable companies. So the 33 extra channels are of that type but I can't watch them because I don't have a set top box from a cable company. But is it really possible for my antenna to receive them? I have a Winegard GS-2200 Sensar III antenna that can receive both VHF and UHF.


----------



## LenL

Rhrisch,

The answer lies in your answer to these questions.

Do you feed your TV directly from your antenna coax without any interruption or do you feed you antenna coax into other equipment like a combiner?

Do you only have one coax coming into you TV and that is from the antenna only?

There is absolutely no way your antenna will pick up cable channels. If you are getting them they are coming from another source. Like the internet or another feed from the cable company. You have cable so the cable coax that goes to the modem may have a splitter on it separating out the cable company TV feed which in turn is scrambeled but may then be later on either combined with the antenna feed or coming into you TV with a separate coax.

Just curious...where do you live?


----------



## KyL416

That CSR you talked to fed you the wrong answer. Depending on what Smart TV platform your Hisense TV is running (Android or Roku) and what apps are installed (i.e. Pluto, Xumo, Roku Channel, etc), free internet streaming channels are automatically added to the guide.


----------



## rhrisch

LenL said:


> Rhrisch,
> 
> The answer lies in your answer to these questions.
> 
> Do you feed your TV directly from your antenna coax without any interruption or do you feed you antenna coax into other equipment like a combiner?
> 
> Do you only have one coax coming into you TV and that is from the antenna only?
> 
> There is absolutely no way your antenna will pick up cable channels. If you are getting them they are coming from another source. Like the internet or another feed from the cable company. You have cable so the cable coax that goes to the modem may have a splitter on it separating out the cable company TV feed which in turn is scrambeled but may then be later on either combined with the antenna feed or coming into you TV with a separate coax.
> 
> Just curious...where do you live?


As I mentioned before, I am on a circle of radius 33 miles from the World Trade Center. My router is being fed from from a cable company but I only signed signed up for Internet service and my TV is connected to the router via an ethernet cable. The antenna goes to a distribution amplifier in the attic. Three FM sets and the TV are connected to the amplifier so the TV is connected to 2 live sources, the router and the antenna. I get hundreds of channels through apps like Pluto. So I am a bit confused about what are the 33 channels the cable scan found.


----------



## rhrisch

KyL416 said:


> That CSR you talked to fed you the wrong answer. Depending on what Smart TV platform your Hisense TV is running (Android or Roku) and what apps are installed (i.e. Pluto, Xumo, Roku Channel, etc), free internet streaming channels are automatically added to the guide.


It's an Android TV. There are several hundred Pluto channels, not 33.


----------



## joblo

rhrisch said:


> The Hisense representative told me that after the antenna scan, the TV looks for channels, coming into its coax input, from cable companies. So the 33 extra channels are of that type but I can't watch them because I don't have a set top box from a cable company. But is it really possible for my antenna to receive them?


If you live in or right next to an apartment building, or maybe hospital, nursing home, etc., with an old, leaky distribution system, yes, it absolutely is.

I haven't heard of this much in recent years/decades, but 40-50 years ago it was quite common for cable and MATV systems to shift all local broadcast channels to other frequencies for distribution, and to avoid using local OTA frequencies for distribution, just to prevent mutual interference by cable ingress or leakage. This was especially true when buildings were wired with twin lead tap-offs for sets. But nobody has built a system like that for decades, so it would be very unusual to see anything like that today.

However, 33 cable channels is very few for a digital system -- or internet distribution -- and that makes me suspect an older analog MATV distribution system in your neighborhood, directly in line with your antenna. I suggest you redo the channel scan with the tuning mode set to cable and see what turns up. That might make the 33 channels viewable, albeit probably snowy, or at least listed in your channel list. That may answer your questions, after which you can do the scan again in OTA mode to bring things back to normal.

ETA: You might not even need to rescan. Some TVs will let you switch tuning modes between cable and OTA without scanning. If yours is one of those, you might be able to identify the 33 channels simply by switching the tuning mode to cable.


----------



## KyL416

rhrisch said:


> It's an Android TV. There are several hundred Pluto channels, not 33.


What specific channels do you see? I can help figure out where it's coming from if you provide a list of some of their names and channel numbers they have in your guide.


----------



## rhrisch

joblo said:


> If you live in or right next to an apartment building, or maybe hospital, nursing home, etc., with an old, leaky distribution system, yes, it absolutely is.
> 
> I haven't heard of this much in recent years/decades, but 40-50 years ago it was quite common for cable and MATV systems to shift all local broadcast channels to other frequencies for distribution, and to avoid using local OTA frequencies for distribution, just to prevent mutual interference by cable ingress or leakage. This was especially true when buildings were wired with twin lead tap-offs for sets. But nobody has built a system like that for decades, so it would be very unusual to see anything like that today.
> 
> However, 33 cable channels is very few for a digital system -- or internet distribution -- and that makes me suspect an older analog MATV distribution system in your neighborhood, directly in line with your antenna. I suggest you redo the channel scan with the tuning mode set to cable and see what turns up. That might make the 33 channels viewable, albeit probably snowy, or at least listed in your channel list. That may answer your questions, after which you can do the scan again in OTA mode to bring things back to normal.
> 
> ETA: You might not even need to rescan. Some TVs will let you switch tuning modes between cable and OTA without scanning. If yours is one of those, you might be able to identify the 33 channels simply by switching the tuning mode to cable.


Thank you so much. I changed the tuner mode to Cable and I took a look at the resulting channel list. There were exactly 33 channels there! They were a selection of the 85 channels that I saw under antenna mode, from 7-1 WABC-HD to 58-2 WNHB.2 but not all in between. There are 61 channels between those two limits in antenna mode. So we now know what it found but why those antenna stations were found in cable mode seems mysterious. 😧


----------



## joblo

rhrisch said:


> So we now know what it found but why those antenna stations were found in cable mode seems mysterious.


Did you try viewing those channels while in cable mode and did you get a picture? Does your TV have a diagnostic screen which might tell you the RF frequencies or corresponding RF channels for those "cable" channels listed?


----------



## rhrisch

joblo said:


> Did you try viewing those channels while in cable mode and did you get a picture? Does your TV have a diagnostic screen which might tell you the RF frequencies or corresponding RF channels for those "cable" channels listed?


I did some checking. All those "cable channels" came in at the same quality as when they called themselves antenna channels. The frequencies were the same too; 7-1 was 177000 kHz for both antenna and cable. I think there is some sort of weird software bug either in the Android operating system or the Hisense software that causes this.


----------



## joblo

rhrisch said:


> There were exactly 33 channels there! They were a selection of the 85 channels that I saw under antenna mode, from 7-1 WABC-HD to 58-2 WNHB.2


Typo, perhaps? Do you mean WN*J*B.2?



rhrisch said:


> The frequencies were the same too; 7-1 was 177000 kHz for both antenna and cable.


Are you in NJ or is your antenna aimed at NJ, and do you receive WJLP MeTV on VC 33.1?

If you answer yes to the above, mystery likely solved, because I count 33 subchannels on RF 3, 7, 8, 11, 12, which are the numerical "cable" channels that have the same frequencies as their numerical OTA counterparts, or in other words, the VHF rf channels. 

(See RabbitEars.Info, click on "New York City, New York", then click on and count subchannels of "Display Channels" 7 WABC-TV, 11 WPIX, 13 WNET, 33 WJLP, and 58 WNJB.)




rhrisch said:


> I think there is some sort of weird software bug


Artifact of re-using the same code in multiple contexts. You could call that a "bug", or you could consider it cutting corners to keep your TV set cheaper.


----------



## rhrisch

joblo said:


> Typo, perhaps? Do you mean WN*J*B.2?
> 
> Are you in NJ or is your antenna aimed at NJ, and do you receive WJLP MeTV on VC 33.1?
> 
> If you answer yes to the above, mystery likely solved, because I count 33 subchannels on RF 3, 7, 8, 11, 12, which are the numerical "cable" channels that have the same frequencies as their numerical OTA counterparts, or in other words, the VHF rf channels.
> 
> (See RabbitEars.Info, click on "New York City, New York", then click on and count subchannels of "Display Channels" 7 WABC-TV, 11 WPIX, 13 WNET, 33 WJLP, and 58 WNJB.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Artifact of re-using the same code in multiple contexts. You could call that a "bug", or you could consider it cutting corners to keep your TV set cheaper.


I am sure you hit on the explanation. You are right about everything except I am in Westchester County NY and my antenna is aimed at the World Trade Center. I think I will have to do some reading in order to understand what you are saying. But simply, are those "cable" channels coming from a cable company or OTA?


----------



## joblo

rhrisch said:


> You are right about everything except I am in Westchester County NY and my antenna is aimed at the World Trade Center.


Close enough. If you have a broadband VHF/UHF antenna that has a decently wide beam width on rf 8, and/or you have no multipath issues, you should be receiving all the VHF signals I mentioned.



rhrisch said:


> are those "cable" channels coming from a cable company or OTA?


OTA. They are the subset of OTA channels transmitted on VHF frequencies.


----------



## MeatChicken

joblo said:


> Typo, perhaps? Do you mean WN*J*B.2?
> 
> *Are you in NJ or is your antenna aimed at NJ, and do you receive WJLP MeTV* on VC 33.1?


 WJLP VC 33.1 is transmitted from Times Square, (eventually moving to WTC), not NJ , so his aiming of antenna directly south to NYC would get it fine depending of course on the antenna ...
I think you may possibly have solved the mystery by figuring out they are the subchannels.

@rhrisch , as you may be unaware, yes, since the digital OTA conversion, each frequency "channel" is now able to broadcast multiple channels, so "Channel 11 ", "channel 7" etc each are actually broadcasting multiple channels on the same frequency, however, they all should be able to received when doing just an antenna channel scan ...


----------



## KyL416

MeatChicken said:


> WJLP VC 33.1 is transmitted Times Square, (eventually moving to WTC),


WJLP isn't moving to 1WTC anymore, they made 4TS their permanent site.


----------



## rhrisch

joblo said:


> Close enough. If you have a broadband VHF/UHF antenna that has a decently wide beam width on rf 8, and/or you have no multipath issues, you should be receiving all the VHF signals I mentioned.
> 
> 
> OTA. They are the subset of OTA channels transmitted on VHF frequencies.


I am still a bit befuddled about the logic of doing a VHF scan again after completing the Antenna Scan which would cover both UHF and VHF and then switching (unasked) to do a Cable Scan.


----------



## joblo

rhrisch said:


> I decided that I was curious enough to call the TV manufacturer's helpline. The Hisense representative told me that after the antenna scan, the TV looks for channels, coming into its coax input, from cable companies.





rhrisch said:


> I am still a bit befuddled about the logic of doing a VHF scan again after completing the Antenna Scan which would cover both UHF and VHF and then switching (unasked) to do a Cable Scan.


It's not doing a second VHF scan, per se; it's doing a cable scan, as the Hisense rep said.

The software is set up to handle two inputs, one OTA and one cable. If your device had two inputs, the first 50% of the scan would look for OTA channels on the first input and the second 50% would look for cable channels on the second input. But because they couldn't be bothered to put a check in the software for the number of inputs, so that it could only do the relevant scan according to the selected mode, cable or OTA, it does both scans on the one input.

The "cable scan" finds the OTA signals on channels 2-13, because OTA channels 2-13 and cable channels 2-13 tune the same frequencies. It does NOT find the other OTA signals because cable channels 1 and 14-135 tune different frequencies that do not align with any OTA channels.


----------



## logger-a

rhrisch said:


> I am still a bit befuddled about the logic of doing a VHF scan again after completing the Antenna Scan which would cover both UHF and VHF and then switching (unasked) to do a Cable Scan.


Here are some specific numbers related to what joblo wrote.

With frequencies in the VHF band used by both over-the-air broadcasts and cable systems, both use a carrier wave at the same frequency. For example, 177 MHz for both over-the-air digital TV and cable digital TV signals for RF channel 7.

With frequencies in the UHF band used by both over-the-air broadcasts and cable systems, the two use different carrier wave frequencies. For example, a carrier at 587 MHz is used by over-the-air digital TV RF channel 33; there are no cable digital TV carrier waves at 587MHz but there are at 585 MHz and 591 MHz.

As to not being asked whether a scan of cable TV frequencies should also be done, maybe the TV tuner designers were concerned that someone would have an input containing a non-interferring combination of frequencies of both over-the-air TV and cable TV.


----------



## rhrisch

logger-a said:


> Here are some specific numbers related to what joblo wrote.
> 
> With frequencies in the VHF band used by both over-the-air broadcasts and cable systems, both use a carrier wave at the same frequency. For example, 177 MHz for both over-the-air digital TV and cable digital TV signals for RF channel 7.
> 
> With frequencies in the UHF band used by both over-the-air broadcasts and cable systems, the two use different carrier wave frequencies. For example, a carrier at 587 MHz is used by over-the-air digital TV RF channel 33; there are no cable digital TV carrier waves at 587MHz but there are at 585 MHz and 591 MHz.
> 
> As to not being asked whether a scan of cable TV frequencies should also be done, maybe the TV tuner designers were concerned that someone would have an input containing a non-interferring combination of frequencies of both over-the-air TV and cable TV.


I did a scan after I chose the Cable Mode setting. The only difference was it scanned for the cable frequencies first and then the antenna frequencies at the 50% mark. I think you are saying that they want to accommodate users who connect both an antenna and a cable set top box to a splitter/combiner and then to the TV. I don't know how the TV would know if a VHF signal came from the antenna or cable source. But maybe if both are coming in slightly out of phase, the TVs hardware and/or software can get them in sync or reject the weaker signal. I certainly don't know.


----------



## logger-a

rhrisch said:


> I did a scan after I chose the Cable Mode setting. The only difference was it scanned for the cable frequencies first and then the antenna frequencies at the 50% mark. I think you are saying that they want to accommodate users who connect both an antenna and a cable set top box to a splitter/combiner and then to the TV. I don't know how the TV would know if a VHF signal came from the antenna or cable source. But maybe if both are coming in slightly out of phase, the TVs hardware and/or software can get them in sync or reject the weaker signal. I certainly don't know.


A way for a TV to know if the input is from an antenna or a cable source is to have separate connectors for the two. The only TV that I have has a single antenna/cable connector and uses a setting that indicates whether the input is from an antenna or a cable source. My comment about a possible intent of the designers of the TV tuner was speculative.


----------



## rhrisch

As you can tell, I have been doing channel scans recently. In the past couple of days the scans have not been picking up 25-1,2,3. even though the channels whose transmitters are close to it in Manhattan are coming in fine. Is this source known for flaky behavior?


----------



## unsmiley

MeTV hasn't been viewable in my Manhattan location (on multiple TVs) for several days. Anybody aware of any issues?


----------



## rhrisch

unsmiley said:


> MeTV hasn't been viewable in my Manhattan location (on multiple TVs) for several days. Anybody aware of any issues?


At the present moment, MeTV 33-1 is coming in fine to my Westchester location but 25-1,2 and 3 are coming in pixelated or dropping out completely.


----------



## unsmiley

I'm currently receiving 25-1, 2,3 normally.


----------



## twinprime

KyL416 said:


> WJLP isn't moving to 1WTC anymore, they made 4TS their permanent site.


Are you sure about this? I only ask because I've been receiving WJLP with a (hdhomerun snq) signal quality of around 90 for the past few weeks. Before that, it was never watchable (snq < 50). I have an indoor antenna that's pointing towards the WTC via my south facing window (i live in weehawken). I just assumed that my WJLP reception improved because they moved to WTC.


----------



## KyL416

Yes, they made the filings last month to swap the sites. 4 Times Square is now their main site, 1WTC is now their backup/aux site.


----------



## twinprime

KyL416 said:


> Yes, they made the filings last month to swap the sites. 4 Times Square is now their main site, 1WTC is now their backup/aux site.


Is it possible to verify which of their primary or backup sites they're broadcasting from right now?


----------



## KyL416

The live bandscans show some kind of change in reception at exactly the same time on November 12th, Mount Bethel NJ (more south and closer to 1WTC) now gets it stronger, Fair Lawn NJ (more north and closer to 4TS) now gets it weaker. If work is currently going on at 4 Times Square it would also explain why some people are having trouble picking up WNYE's channels.


----------



## scorpiony

unsmiley said:


> MeTV hasn't been viewable in my Manhattan location (on multiple TVs) for several days. Anybody aware of any issues?


I lost MeTV as well. I live on UWS (80s) and never had a problem but recently signal has gone …. Very disappointing 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## long time cord cutter

scorpiony said:


> I lost MeTV as well. I live on UWS (80s) and never had a problem but recently signal has gone …. Very disappointing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm in same area....not only is metv (33.1) gone,the 33.xx sequence is gone as is 37.xx sequence


----------



## ansky212

I'm about 10 miles due west of WTC and WJLP is coming in fine here.


----------



## rhrisch

[


KyL416 said:


> The live bandscans show some kind of change in reception at exactly the same time on November 12th, Mount Bethel NJ (more south and closer to 1WTC) now gets it stronger, Fair Lawn NJ (more north and closer to 4TS) now gets it weaker. If work is currently going on at 4 Times Square it would also explain why some people are having trouble picking up WNYE's channels.


Today it is the same as it has been for the last few days in my northern Westchester location. WJLP comes in fine while WNYE not at all.


----------



## Brian in CT

scorpiony said:


> I lost MeTV as well. I live on UWS (80s) and never had a problem but recently signal has gone …. Very disappointing.


I'm impressed that you were receiving WJLP all this time with no problems. Densely built up areas and VHF-Lo DTV signals generally don't mix due to the high S/N levels. I'm about 50 miles away and WJLP comes in strong for me.


----------



## scorpiony

Brian in CT said:


> I'm impressed that you were receiving WJLP all this time with no problems. Densely built up areas and VHF-Lo DTV signals generally don't mix due to the high S/N levels. I'm about 50 miles away and WJLP comes in strong for me.


I was surprised myself but ; signal strength was always in the 90% give or take few percentages, S/R was around 60%-70%…. Too bad , loved to watch the late night schedule ( Twilight Zone, Hitchcock) 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## unsmiley

scorpiony said:


> I was surprised myself but ; signal strength was always in the 90% give or take few percentages, S/R was around 60%-70%…. Too bad , loved to watch the late night schedule ( Twilight Zone, Hitchcock)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Still no MeTV in my location on the Upper East Side for at least five days. Reception has always been trickier than other stations, but I've generally managed to pull it in. I must note that MeTV has disappeared in the past for a couple of weeks at a time at least twice that I can remember, but has always returned. I wish I had an explanation.


----------



## KyL416

unsmiley said:


> I wish I had an explanation.


Read several posts up. They're currently operating from their backup/aux site.


----------



## long time cord cutter

KyL416 said:


> Read several posts up. They're currently operating from their backup/aux site.


on top of not getting Metv and all the 33.xx subs and 37.1 and subs, now wliw is on 21.22 and the 3 subs (create,world & all arts) have disappeared. Maybe since moving main signal to 4TS (which is in denser area) than WTC (more open area) could be problem.


----------



## marlowja

long time cord cutter said:


> on top of not getting Metv and all the 33.xx subs and 37.1 and subs, now wliw is on 21.22 and the 3 subs (create,world & all arts) have disappeared. Maybe since moving main signal to 4TS (which is in denser area) than WTC (more open area) could be problem.


Can confirm WLIW's PSIP is all weird, all of the sub channels are viewable for me but they're all labeled 21.22.


----------



## MeatChicken

long time cord cutter said:


> on top of not getting Metv and all the 33.xx subs and 37.1 and subs, now wliw is on 21.22 and the 3 subs (create,world & all arts) have disappeared. Maybe since moving main signal to 4TS (which is in denser area) than WTC (more open area) could be problem.


 Is WLIW 21's main xmitter now at Times square instead of WTC?


----------



## LenL

I see the same thing. Shows 21.22 for all the main and subs. Someone screwed up bigly!


----------



## rhrisch

I just checked what I am getting at 33 miles north of the WTC with a roof antenna about 135 feet above sea level. I list signal strength from what is given on the TV's Help Menu.

2 - 2,3 SS 70
21 - 1,2,3,4 SS 67-69
25 - Nothing has been coming in for maybe a week
33 - 1-14 SS 60-62
50 - 1,2 SS 37
58 - 1,2 SS 41

2,21,33 all look and sound fine. 50 and 58 come in with occasional audio dropouts and pixelization but they are not in line with the way my antenna is pointed.


----------



## long time cord cutter

I see METV and PSIPS are working now as is 37.1 PSIPS in my area (MANH UWS)...WLIW is still showing 21.22 and the other 3 PSIPS are still out


----------



## long time cord cutter

long time cord cutter said:


> I see METV and PSIPS are working now as is 37.1 PSIPS in my area (MANH UWS)...WLIW is still showing 21.22 and the other 3 PSIPS are still out


WLIW and 3 psips are now working correctly,BUT METV and corresponding PSIPS are out again.....somebody wake me when its back, I'm out


----------



## rhrisch

rhrisch said:


> I just checked what I am getting at 33 miles north of the WTC with a roof antenna about 135 feet above sea level. I list signal strength from what is given on the TV's Help Menu.
> 
> 2 - 2,3 SS 70
> 21 - 1,2,3,4 SS 67-69
> 25 - Nothing has been coming in for maybe a week
> 33 - 1-14 SS 60-62
> 50 - 1,2 SS 37
> 58 - 1,2 SS 41
> 
> 2,21,33 all look and sound fine. 50 and 58 come in with occasional audio dropouts and pixelization but they are not in line with the way my antenna is pointed.


Today, the only change is that 50 and 58 are coming in well. But why should I be getting 33 but not 25 at all?


----------



## KyL416

rhrisch said:


> But why should I be getting 33 but not 25 at all?


Because WJLP has a backup facility at 1WTC, while WNYE doesn't so they have to reduce their power when there's work going on at 4 Times Square.

1WTC has a different height and is much further south compared to 4 Times Square, so depending on where people are and what skyscrapers are in the path between their antenna and the signals, some people might see an improvement in WJLP while it's at 1WTC, others might have worse reception. (i.e. The Fair Lawn live bandscan had a drop in signal strength and SNR after they switched to their backup facility, while Mount Bethel got an increase in strength and SNR)


----------



## unsmiley

I am now getting Me TV on the Upper East Side, after a one week outage. Does that correspond with the time frame of broadcasting from their auxiliary site?


----------



## KyL416

Yeah, the live bandscans show they switched back yesterday afternoon at around 5pm.


----------



## uVSthem

Hi everyone. Does anyone know if any channels in the NYC area are ASTC 3.0? I thought we were supposed to get some by now.


----------



## trailblazer

uVSthem said:


> Hi everyone. Does anyone know if any channels in the NYC area are ASTC 3.0? I thought we were supposed to get some by now.


No 3.0 OTA yet. Suppose to be sometime in 2022.


----------



## Brian in CT

uVSthem said:


> Hi everyone. Does anyone know if any channels in the NYC area are ASTC 3.0? I thought we were supposed to get some by now.


The problem is that the four major networks (who own all of their affiliates in NYC) have been in no rush to get any of the TV stations they own on an ATSC 3.0 lighthouse, let alone set one up themselves. It's been companies like Sinclair that have been making the push. When they ever get serious, I figure one of the Fox owned stations (WNYW or WWOR) will be most likely to convert. I believe there's a similar plan for Los Angeles in the works.


----------



## logger-a

uVSthem said:


> Hi everyone. Does anyone know if any channels in the NYC area are ASTC 3.0? I thought we were supposed to get some by now.


The following was posted to this forum 30 days ago.


phil259 said:


> First ATSC 3.0 signal in the New York City metro area? It's on RF6 with only one program stream(720p). I'm near City Island using a rooftop antenna.
> View attachment 3188956


The station (WNYZ-LP) is likely of interest only to those who understand Korean.


----------



## uVSthem

logger-a said:


> WNYZ-LP


Thanks for the info. I did a rescan of channels and it doesn't seem like I can pick it up.


----------



## KyL416

WNYZ-LP transmits on RF 6 from the former Citigroup building in Long Island City with a highly directional signal to protect WPVI in Philly, so most people outside of Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens will have a hard time getting it unless they have a large full band antenna on their roof. The only reason it's ATSC 3.0 is so they can continue the franken FM station NY Radio Korea on 87.7 FM using the top 0.5 MHz of their RF 6 signal. But at least for the local Korean community they are actually programming their video channel locally instead of throwing a random shopping channel on it.


Based on what's happening next month with Fox in LA and Houston, my guess is WNYW's RF 27 signal will be the one to launch true ATSC 3.0 services next year. WWOR can't convert their RF 25 signal because between them and WRNN that would be 2 HD and 5 SD channels that would need to find new ATSC 1.0 homes.


----------



## ansky212

Ever since the sale of WZME I have not seen any updates about their DTS construction. I see that their current STA expires in January but not sure about the CP extension. Has anything new happened recently?


----------



## hancox

KyL416 said:


> WNYZ-LP transmits on RF 6 from the former Citigroup building in Long Island City with a highly directional signal to protect WPVI in Philly, so most people outside of Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens will have a hard time getting it unless they have a large full band antenna on their roof. The only reason it's ATSC 3.0 is so they can continue the franken FM station NY Radio Korea on 87.7 FM using the top 0.5 MHz of their RF 6 signal. But at least for the local Korean community they are actually programming their video channel locally instead of throwing a random shopping channel on it.
> 
> 
> Based on what's happening next month with Fox in LA and Houston, my guess is WNYW's RF 27 signal will be the one to launch true ATSC 3.0 services next year. WWOR can't convert their RF 25 signal because between them and WRNN that would be 2 HD and 5 SD channels that would need to find new ATSC 1.0 homes.


Plus, FOX, of all the major networks, is clearly pushing HDR and "4K" (though really 1080p upscaled) harder than the others. Given their swimming grass 720p crapvision otherwise, they also have the biggest benefit, at present.


----------



## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> Ever since the sale of WZME I have not seen any updates about their DTS construction. I see that their current STA expires in January but not sure about the CP extension. Has anything new happened recently?


On 12/13/2021 Connecticut Public Broadcasting submitted a modification to the DTS for WEDW. The modification includes changes to the antennas to be at the DTS sites.

The antenna at the broadcast site in Connecticut is now to be a directional one. In earlier DTS applications it was a non-directional antenna. The directional pattern has lower power to the south and west, areas that will be covered by the signal from the broadcast site in New York City.

The antenna at the broadcast site in New York City is now to be at the top of the spire of the Empire State Building.


----------



## phil259

I just checked WZME RF21. WZME 43.1 and WEDW-1 49.1 are now the only streams. WTXX and Sonolife are gone. The bitrate is up and the picture quality of both steams is much improved. I recently installed a dedicated antenna for WZME on my roof here in the NE Bronx. Signal strength is surprising good given that I'm 47 miles from the transmitter. I guess the upcoming antenna pattern modification will change that, oh well.


----------



## ansky212

phil259 said:


> I just checked WZME RF21. WZME 43.1 and WEDW-1 49.1 are now the only streams. WTXX and Sonolife are gone. The bitrate is up and the picture quality of both steams is much improved. I recently installed a dedicated antenna for WZME on my roof here in the NE Bronx. Signal strength is surprising good given that I'm 47 miles from the transmitter. I guess the upcoming antenna pattern modification will change that, oh well.


Once the ESB transmitter is up and running you should get a much stronger signal at your location.


----------



## ansky212

I did a channel scan today and I'm now able to receive WXNY-LD from my home in NJ. This is the first time I have ever seen them show up so I assume they are now at a new transmitter location and/or increased power recently.


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> I did a channel scan today and I'm now able to receive WXNY-LD from my home in NJ. This is the first time I have ever seen them show up so I assume they are now at a new transmitter location and/or increased power recently.


Is it airing any actual programming yet?

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Is it airing any actual programming yet?
> 
> - Trip


Yes. This is what I'm seeing:

32.1 - an older (1960's?) western movie is airing (no network id displayed)
32.2 - airing cartoons
32.3 - seems to be some kind of sci-fi movie (no network id displayed)
32.4 - foreign news programming, possibly middle eastern


----------



## ansky212

Another update for WXNY:

32.4 is now airing a network called Diya TV which appears to be Indian programming. PSIP shows Retro TV which is clearly incorrect.






Diya TV | America’s first-ever 24/7 South Asian Broadcast TV Network !


America's first-ever 24/7 South Asian Broadcast TV Network!




diyatvusa.com


----------



## Trip in VA

ansky212 said:


> Another update for WXNY:
> 
> 32.4 is now airing a network called Diya TV which appears to be Indian programming. PSIP shows Retro TV which is clearly incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diya TV | America’s first-ever 24/7 South Asian Broadcast TV Network !
> 
> 
> America's first-ever 24/7 South Asian Broadcast TV Network!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> diyatvusa.com


Thanks. Any evidence to suggest what the other streams might be beyond the sort of generic information you determined the other day?

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Thanks. Any evidence to suggest what the other streams might be beyond the sort of generic information you determined the other day?
> 
> - Trip


For the past couple days 32.1 is just showing a screen with a phone number to contact Showfer Media to buy advertising. 32.2 is still airing cartoons and 32.3 is still showing sci-fi movies. There is no network identification and the PSIP just says WXNY.


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> 32.2 is still airing cartoons and 32.3 is still showing sci-fi movies.


Can you identify what cartoons and movies are airing on those channels?

Showfer Media also owns AiryTV (one of the many free streaming providers similar to Pluto, Xumo, Stirr, Distro, etc), so it might be some of their custom channels.


----------



## pabuwal

Not able to receive 32 in Central NJ. One of the few PA/NY/NJ stations (WLNY is the other), I can't receive.


----------



## KyL416

WXNY-LD has a highly directional pattern pointed towards the northwest to protect WNJS who is also on RF 23, so most of Central NJ has no chance of picking it up:
https://rabbitears.info/contour.php...25076f917529300b017565c746a648fb&cir=&circen=

They have a construction permit to increase their power and add a south-southeast lobe to reach areas of Brooklyn better, but it will still be highly directional to protect WNJS and WFTY, and limited to 3.25 kW to protect WNJB's Sussex translator W23EX-D and WMHT's Poughkeepsie repeater W23ER-D.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Can you identify what cartoons and movies are airing on those channels?
> 
> Showfer Media also owns AiryTV (one of the many free streaming providers similar to Pluto, Xumo, Stirr, Distro, etc), so it might be some of their custom channels.


This morning 32.1 and 32.2 are showing old 1950s - 1970s era movies (no more cartoons on 32.2). I have a feeling this is all just filler programming until they eventually affiliate with an actual network. On 32.3 I quickly caught a little bug at the top of the screen that said "Sci Fi TV". 32.4 which had been airing Diya TV is just a black screen as of this morning.


----------



## KyL416

Now that PCMC and their numerous bogus lawsuits and appeals are out of the picture, the RF 33 situation has finally been settled. W41DO-D's construction permit to move to RF 33 as W33ET-D has been granted and W32EI-D will spectrum share with them.

W41DO-D was 60-1 HSN2, which began as a translator for WWHT/WHSE but was retained by HSN after they sold their full power stations to Univision in 2000. HSN's owners recently sold it to Major Market Broadcasting. W32EI-D is currently owned by Venture Technologies and has a pending application to be sold to Major Market Broadcasting too. One part of the sale agreement is that Venture's other NYC station 18.x WHTV-LD on RF 31 will carry W41DO-D's programming on a subchannel until they finish building out their RF 33 signal.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Now that PCMC and their numerous bogus lawsuits and appeals are out of the picture, the RF 33 situtation has finally been settled. W41DO-D's construction permit to move to RF 33 as W33ET-D has been granted and W32EI-D will spectrum share with them.
> 
> W41DO-D was 60-1 HSN2, which began as a translator for WWHT/WHSE but was retained by HSN after they sold their full power stations to Univision in 2000. HSN's owners recently sold it to Major Market Broadcasting. W32EI-D is currently owned by Venture Technologies and has a pending application to be sold to Major Market Broadcasting too. One part of the sale agreement is that Venture's other NYC station 18.x WHTV-LD on RF 31 will carry W41DO-D's programming on a subchannel until they finish building out their RF 33 signal.


Are they currently on the air on RF2? According to the coverage map I should be able to pull them in pretty easily but I never pick them up.


----------



## KyL416

RF2 is currently 42-x WKOB-LD, who will eventually be moving to RF 13 and hosting 24-x WASA-LD (Estrella).

At one point W41DO-D was spectrum sharing with WKOB via a subchannel, but that ended on August 30th.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> Now that PCMC and their numerous bogus lawsuits and appeals are out of the picture, the RF 33 situtation has finally been settled. W41DO-D's construction permit to move to RF 33 as W33ET-D has been granted and W32EI-D will spectrum share with them.
> 
> W41DO-D was 60-1 HSN2, which began as a translator for WWHT/WHSE but was retained by HSN after they sold their full power stations to Univision in 2000. HSN's owners recently sold it to Major Market Broadcasting. W32EI-D is currently owned by Venture Technologies and has a pending application to be sold to Major Market Broadcasting too. One part of the sale agreement is that Venture's other NYC station 18.x WHTV-LD on RF 31 will carry W41DO-D's programming on a subchannel until they finish building out their RF 33 signal.


Hey guys. Happy holidays!
So I did a channel scan, just to see if anything new is around maybe.... And I'm now picking up these 2 new channels, on virtual channels 18.1 and 18.2 both are WHTV-LD. The 18.1 channel. Is the same shopping channel I used to get on 31.1, which used to be a double cause 31.1 is also Ion, so I used to have 2 31.1 channels. Now that channel is on 18.1, and 18.2 is actually a Full HD channel, 1080p! I think it's a Daystar channel. So I guess these are something connected with this deal you mentioned? Oh well.... Any new channel is a good thing I guess


----------



## jfren51

hi eveyone i live in pa and usually post on the philly forum but ive been getting wcbs2 and wnbc 4 solidly for nine months after philly lp stations moved from the signals 35 and 36, i'm 40 mi. north of philly. its been great to get them, now this weekend no signals, did they reduce their power temporarily for tower work at the WTC, or it is just atmospheric conditions?


----------



## KyL416

It's probably the warm weather pattern since most tower crews don't do work over the holidays unless it's emergency repairs. The UHFs I usually get from Philly were coming in worse too this weekend.


----------



## LenL

Joseph Rubin said:


> Hey guys. Happy holidays!
> So I did a channel scan, just to see if anything new is around maybe.... And I'm now picking up these 2 new channels, on virtual channels 18.1 and 18.2 both are WHTV-LD. The 18.1 channel. Is the same shopping channel I used to get on 31.1, which used to be a double cause 31.1 is also Ion, so I used to have 2 31.1 channels. Now that channel is on 18.1, and 18.2 is actually a Full HD channel, 1080p! I think it's a Daystar channel. So I guess these are something connected with this deal you mentioned? Oh well.... Any new channel is a good thing I guess


How are you measuring 18.2 as full hd 1080p? As far as I know ATSC1.0 broadcasters don't go to 1080p. I see where it might be technically possible but everyone is waiting for ATSC 3.0 to go with actual HD broadcasting.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> How are you measuring 18.2 as full hd 1080p? As far as I know ATSC1.0 broadcasters don't go to 1080p. I see where it might be technically possible but everyone is waiting for ATSC 3.0 to go with actual HD broadcasting.


Isn't that 4k we're waiting for?
I guess I was wrong. The info bar says "full HD" so I thought it was 1080p. But apparently it is 1080i.


----------



## rhrisch

I understand that the reason I haven't been able to get the NYC channels 25-1,2 and 3 in recent months is that there is construction at 4 Times Square from which they broadcast. I am sort of surprised since Univision's WFUT, 68-1 has been coming in strong during the same period and it also is supposed to broadcast from that tower. Anybody know what is going on?


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## KyL416

rhrisch said:


> I am sort of surprised since Univision's WFUT, 68-1 has been coming in strong during the same period and it also is supposed to broadcast from that tower


Univision's WFUT (and WXTV) broadcasts from the Empire State Building.

Also whatever work was going on at 4 Times Square that resulted in WJLP having to use their backup site for a few weeks was completed last month.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> Univision's WFUT (and WXTV) broadcasts from the Empire State Building


I thought so! I was about to say that but I've been wrong once already today. So I didn't wanna risk it again. Lol.


----------



## MozzyMoz

I can confirm that:

WTXX is no longer on WEDW - I hope that will eventually mean a quality increase for CPTV in the next few months.
WHTV RF 31 is coming so-so to the Rego Park area, at least Daystar has a somewhat decent signal back in NYC after vacating RF 12.
With a pea-sized power, it is quite difficult for WKOB to get effectively anywhere outside a small radius. We will have to wait if that station ever moves to WTC.


----------



## KyL416

WKOB-LD filed to go silent yesterday while they finish the buildout of RF 13.

At the same time, their sister station W28ES-D filed for their license to cover for their RF 2 operation as W02CY-D. It's from the same tower as WKOB's former RF 2 signal and it's 0.5 kW instead of WKOB's 0.3 kW, but now with a null to the southwest to protect WDPN in Philly. Right now it's carrying WKOB's entire lineup.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> WKOB-LD filed to go silent yesterday while they finish the buildout of RF 13.
> 
> At the same time, their sister station W28ES-D filed for their license to cover for their RF 2 operation as W02CY-D. It's from the same tower as WKOB's former RF 2 signal and it's 0.5 kW instead of WKOB's 0.3 kW, but now with a null to the southwest to protect WDPN in Philly. Right now it's carrying WKOB's entire lineup.


I just did a channel scan, I'm still not picking it up. And I'm only a couple of miles from Manhattan. Oh well


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Wow! I'm really sad that Jersey Matters is gone! No more Jersey Matters on MeTv! Sucks. Sad 

He explained it as, the Channel WJLP is being sold to Wiegel (I think I spelled it wrong), who owns Metv. So MeTv will now own the channel? Hmmm 
I just will miss the Jersey Matters show. Even though I live in NY,I just really liked it


----------



## KyL416

I just watched his last commentary ranting how New Jersey doesn't have its own DMA as if that's the main reason why NJ doesn't have an OTA newscast of its own. Yeah NJ has 9 million people, but how the heck does he expect New Jersey to qualify to have its own DMA when the most populated parts of the state have always been in the city grade contours of the NYC or Philly stations?

The closest NJ got to having its own DMA in the early days of TV was Atlantic City, but that ended up getting folded into the Philly DMA when transmission and reception technology improved so areas like AC, Wilmington, Reading and Allentown were added to the market. And even if they tried to split it now, that section of the state doesn't have enough commercial allotments to substain a full compliment of networks.

He also conveniently left out the fact that after PMCM exploited the WOR-TV loophole to move the then KVNV from Ely Nevada (and deprived that region of their only local station in the process), they intentionally chose a Northern NJ town as their community and a tower in Manhattan to reach NYC viewers instead of choosing a town and tower in central NJ. And that's not why other stations were battling them, it was because they wanted to use virtual 3 even though it overlapped with KYW and WFSB. It also wasn't the NYC stations that got PMCM to give up, it was the Chicago based owner of their network likely sick and tired of their bogus lawsuits and appeals and just gave them money to finally go away and let them own their NYC affiliate. Weigel also probably still doesn't like that right when they were expanding the network into a major player with .1 affiliates that can use must carry status to get on cable and satellite, that pointless virtual channel battle caused multiple providers in the #1 DMA to keep MeTV off of their lineups until the FCC settled it several years later.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> I just watched his last commentary ranting how New Jersey doesn't have its own DMA as if that's the main reason why NJ doesn't have an OTA newscast of its own. Yeah NJ has 9 million people, but how the heck does he expect New Jersey to qualify to have its own DMA when the most populated parts of the state have always been in the city grade contours of the NYC or Philly stations?


WWOR used to have a 10pm newscast with a good focus on NJ news stories. That went away years ago as I guess they realized this newscast was competing against WNYW's 10pm newscast under the same ownership.


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## Joseph Rubin

I think there is good enough reason for NJ not having it's own DMA, cause geographically it wouldn't make sense, being that there is 2 very large dma's on it's 2 opposite borders. But that doesn't change the fact that 9 million NJ residents don't have their own DMA. It kinda sucks for them. Again I don't think they should have a DMA, cause it will just mess things up for everyone. But that still leaves 9 million people borrowing their TV from neighbors


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## KyL416

Weigel filed their consummation notice today, and now have a page for WJLP at MeTV's website: https://www.metv.com/wjlp

They also made their first set of changes to WJLP and WNWT-LD. NTD America, Newsmax2, NJ NewsNet, Marine Weather and the Press Communications radio stations are gone.

As of right now they didn't make any changes to the bandwidth allocation. The bandwidth used by those removed channels are now part of the null packets and the remaining channels still have either 128 kbps or 112 kbps audio instead of the usual 192 kbps for stereo.


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## Joseph Rubin

So MeTv now has 1 hour of 2 local NJ news programs. From 6-7am today. Probably to replace the NJ Matters show? Oh well. I guess they didn't abandon NJ residents, just you Lerry


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Oh wow. I just realized they also cut all the audio only sub channels. A few video subs too. They cleaned house on the 33 subs. Oh wow


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## Joseph Rubin

Wow Tablo finally picks up RF3 now. Confirming my suspicion that the reason it skipped it till now was because they set it to skip audio only channels, not now any channels carrying audio only won't be picked up at all. So till now it wouldn't pick up RF3, virtual 33's and the rf18, virtual 63's. Both these had some audio only subs. So it skipped the whole RF. 
now I'm sure this is why. Cause rf3 removed the audio only, and walla. It picks up RF3 now.
Tablo was telling it's because these channels must be missing data from the providers. The channel manager told me it's not kidding any data. Now I KNOW I was right about the real reason


----------



## rhrisch

I haven't been getting the 3 Channel 25 stations NYLife, NYGov and CUNY for several months. I understand that the construction work around their tower is finished. I also think I am getting all the other stations broadcasting from Manhattan including channels 31 and 33. So what is the explanation? I am about 30 miles north of midtown. Are others here having a problem?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

rhrisch said:


> I haven't been getting the 3 Channel 25 stations NYLife, NYGov and CUNY for several months. I understand that the construction work around their tower is finished. I also think I am getting all the other stations broadcasting from Manhattan including channels 31 and 33. So what is the explanation? I am about 30 miles north of midtown. Are others here having a problem?


I do get em. But I'm in Brooklyn, only like 10 miles from source. And it is a weaker signal than all others, but I still get a stable picture


----------



## Jay Stone

rhrisch said:


> I haven't been getting the 3 Channel 25 stations NYLife, NYGov and CUNY for several months. I understand that the construction work around their tower is finished. I also think I am getting all the other stations broadcasting from Manhattan including channels 31 and 33. So what is the explanation? I am about 30 miles north of midtown. Are others here having a problem?


I’ve been getting 25-1 to 3 non stop without issues and I’m out in South Setauket on Long Island


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rhrisch

Jay Stone said:


> I’ve been getting 25-1 to 3 non stop without issues and I’m out in South Setauket on Long Island
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are approximately as far from their broadcast tower as I am. Maybe you have a more powerful antenna. I have a Winegard GS-2200 Sensar III on my roof which the manufacturer says has a maximum range of 30 miles. I get good signals from further than that like from the WTC but maybe the weakness of the channel 25 signals is too much for my equipment. But I used to get 25, but not reliably.


----------



## LenL

rhirsch,

There are other factors that you need to consider. 

1. Not just different antennas (which is very important) but the ability of the antenna.
2. Location of the antenna in terms of height, direction etc.
3. Things like trees, hills, buildings etc. between you and the broadcast towers.
4 The tuners in your TV
5. Broadcasters may not be directing the signal equally in all directions and the broadcast pattern may favor one direction over another.

That antenna is rated at 30 miles max and I bet probably best for no more like 20 miles from the broadcast towers. I have an RCA 751 rated for 70 miles but I suspect it is best for 30 miles and closer from my experience. I am 30 miles from the broadcast towers and barely get 25.1. But I do get it. I'm at an elevation of 950 feet too.


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## KyL416

KyL416 said:


> As of right now they didn't make any changes to the bandwidth allocation. The bandwidth used by those removed channels are now part of the null packets and the remaining channels still have either 128 kbps or 112 kbps audio instead of the usual 192 kbps for stereo.


They have now increased the video bitrates for all of their subchannels and also increased MeTV's audio to 192 kbps.

Also, now that WJLP is Weigel owned, in the near future people within the NYC DMA will have access to the live stream on MeTV's Android and iOS apps


----------



## mets18

KyL416 said:


> They have now increased the video bitrates for all of their subchannels and also increased MeTV's audio to 192 kbps.
> 
> Also, now that WJLP is Weigel owned, in the near future people within the NYC DMA will have access to the live stream on MeTV's Android and iOS apps


I wonder if they will eventually drop Laff and/or Mystery since they are duplicated on 31.


----------



## Trip in VA

Most likely, all non-Weigel programming will eventually go away.

- Trip


----------



## scorpiony

KyL416 said:


> Also, now that WJLP is Weigel owned, in the near future people within the NYC DMA will have access to the live stream on MeTV's Android and iOS apps


The MeTV app on iOs or Android never had live stream of their Broadcast 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ansky212

scorpiony said:


> The MeTV app on iOs or Android never had live stream of their Broadcast
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For anyone that is looking for live TV streaming with an antenna, I highly recommend Amazon's Fire Recast DVR. Connect your antenna to the Recast and you can stream all channels and DVR recordings to your phone or tablet, even when you're out of market.


----------



## scorpiony

ansky212 said:


> For anyone that is looking for live TV streaming with an antenna, I highly recommend Amazon's Fire Recast DVR. Connect your antenna to the Recast and you can stream all channels and DVR recordings to your phone or tablet, even when you're out of market.


I do receive the channel via OTA, I was responding to the MeTV LIVE STREAM on their mobile apps which is not correct 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KyL416

scorpiony said:


> The MeTV app on iOs or Android never had live stream of their Broadcast





scorpiony said:


> I was responding to the MeTV LIVE STREAM on their mobile apps which is not correct


MeTV DOES have a live stream on their app. They've had one for the past few years, but it only appears in the app if you are physically located in a market where Weigel owns the affiliate like Chicago, LA, Dallas, Denver, Hartford, Houston, Milwaukee, Nashville, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, Seattle, South Bend and St. Louis:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/metv-app/id1079958817
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.metv.metvandroid


> Please note: Live streaming of MeTV is not available nationwide. When live streaming becomes available in more areas, we will share the news with subscribers of our free MeTV newsletter.


Until last week WJLP was owned by PMCM (Press Communications) so it isn't yet available to you in NYC. But now that Weigel owns them, it will soon be available to NYC once they make the changes on the app's API to set the "videoLive" value to true for NYC like they did for other markets like LA, Dallas, Houston and Hartford after they acquired their local affiliations.


----------



## scorpiony

KyL416 said:


> MeTV DOES have a live stream on their app. They've had one for the past few years, but it only appears in the app if you are physically located in a market where Weigel owns the affiliate like Chicago, LA, Dallas, Denver, Hartford, Houston, Milwaukee, Nashville, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, Seattle, South Bend and St. Louis:
> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/metv-app/id1079958817
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.metv.metvandroid
> 
> Until last week WJLP was owned by PMCM (Press Communications) so it isn't yet available to you in NYC. But now that Weigel owns them, it will soon be available to NYC once they make the changes on the app's API to set the "videoLive" value to true for NYC like they did for other markets like LA, Dallas, Houston and Hartford after they acquired their local affiliations.


Great , thank you so much for the details. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ansky212

It has been about a month since the WEDW/WZME DTS application was filed. How long does it typically take to get reviewed and approved?


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## rhrisch

I've been complaining here about my inability of receiving 25-1,2,3 for the past few months. On the other hand, I've noticed that starting a couple of days ago, some New Jersey PBS stations, which had been giving me trouble, have started to come in strong: WNJN 50 1,2; WNJB 58 1,2. Did they recently increase power?


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## KyL416

WNJB's RF 8 signal hasn't changed their power levels since 2011 and doesn't have any pending applications that would allow them to do so.

The recent cold snap and snow/ice cover can affect reception conditions.


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## logger-a

ansky212 said:


> It has been about a month since the WEDW/WZME DTS application was filed. How long does it typically take to get reviewed and approved?


I don't know how long it typically takes, but a previous Modify License application for the WEDW DTS was submitted 09/28/2020 and granted 09/30/2020. Maybe the application submitted 12/13/2021 has aspects that need additional review by the FCC.


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## KyL416

WEDW filed for a STA extension today.

In the exhibit they mention that the order dismissing PMCM's appeal became final on November 22nd. Lease negotiations with the Empire State Building should be done by the end of the month, with construction beginning as soon as the CP modification is approved.


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## marlowja

WNYW has added Fox Weather as a subchannel on 5-3.


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## Joseph Rubin

rhrisch said:


> I've been complaining here about my inability of receiving 25-1,2,3 for the past few months. On the other hand, I've noticed that starting a couple of days ago, some New Jersey PBS stations, which had been giving me trouble, have started to come in strong: WNJN 50 1,2; WNJB 58 1,2. Did they recently increase power?


Sounds like you maybe need to re point your antenna, maybe it shifted away from NYC and towards NJ?


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## Joseph Rubin

marlowja said:


> WNYW has added Fox Weather as a subchannel on 5-3.


Haaa, is just gonna post this! I just found this channel too.


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## rhrisch

Joseph Rubin said:


> Sounds like you maybe need to re point your antenna, maybe it shifted away from NYC and towards NJ?


 Brrr, not in this weather. 🤧 I don't think that is the problem. At night, some usually strong stations like on channel 68 , eg WFUT, sometimes drop out entirely but 2-13, 21, 33 never fail to come in strong. The antenna itself isn't supposed to pull in signals transmitted over 30 miles away. I am considering a more powerful antenna.


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## marlowja

Purely speculative here but I was wondering if anyone knew how the 3.0 rollout will pan out in the market? At this stage it's unclear to me what station would serve as the 3.0 host, and which will become a 1.0 "lighthouse"? What comes to mind is either WNYW/WWOR, since they're the duopoly with the most OTA coverage, or WNET/WLIW. However, WWOR and WNET already have a fair bit of RF sharing with WRNN and WNDT/WMBQ respectively so I'm not really sure what the solution here would be. Might something like WMBC want to cash out and play the host?


----------



## LenL

marlowja said:


> Purely speculative here but I was wondering if anyone knew how the 3.0 rollout will pan out in the market? At this stage it's unclear to me what station would serve as the 3.0 host, and which will become a 1.0 "lighthouse"? What comes to mind is either WNYW/WWOR, since they're the duopoly with the most OTA coverage, or WNET/WLIW. However, WWOR and WNET already have a fair bit of RF sharing with WRNN and WNDT/WMBQ respectively so I'm not really sure what the solution here would be. Might something like WMBC want to cash out and play the host?


Really good questions and I wish someone can respond on this forum with answers but it might be too early. Seems strange that this NY market is behind in the ATSC 3.0 rollout. It should be in the forefront given that it is such a hip and rich environment for the arts and technology!


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## marlowja

LenL said:


> Really good questions and I wish someone can respond on this forum with answers but it might be too early. Seems strange that this NY market is behind in the ATSC 3.0 rollout. It should be in the forefront given that it is such a hip and rich environment for the arts and technology!


Part of it is definitely the lack of a Sinclair presence to push the market to act. I suppose the network O&Os want the standard to be mature before the rollout - hopefully this means NYC stations would implement in a more thoughtful way than the first markets (e.g. not just upscaling the compressed MPEG-2 1.0 feeds onto 3.0, maybe even broadcasting in native 1080p depending on network upgrades etc). But it really does seem a bit strange that we're this far along and there's no movement.


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## SBRUSKI

> WNYW has added Fox Weather as a subchannel on 5-3.


Just ran a scan and came up with 9 new channels. Got Fox Weather too.
Most were Conn. based , Not strong signals. Not gonna fight for them. 
My 1987 Winegard is kicking azz. 
The KC/Cinn game looked awesome. Except the outcome.
82+ clear channels. Gotta love winter.


----------



## MadMan400096

marlowja said:


> Purely speculative here but I was wondering if anyone knew how the 3.0 rollout will pan out in the market? At this stage it's unclear to me what station would serve as the 3.0 host, and which will become a 1.0 "lighthouse"? What comes to mind is either WNYW/WWOR, since they're the duopoly with the most OTA coverage, or WNET/WLIW. However, WWOR and WNET already have a fair bit of RF sharing with WRNN and WNDT/WMBQ respectively so I'm not really sure what the solution here would be. Might something like WMBC want to cash out and play the host?


Between the Fox-owned stations, I'd definitely say WNYW would be the more likely candidate to be a 3.0 lighthouse, since WWOR is hosting WRNN.


----------



## trabin

Joseph Rubin said:


> Sounds like you maybe need to re point your antenna, maybe it shifted away from NYC and towards NJ?


Did you rescan your tuner?


----------



## trabin

LenL said:


> Really good questions and I wish someone can respond on this forum with answers but it might be too early. Seems strange that this NY market is behind in the ATSC 3.0 rollout. It should be in the forefront given that it is such a hip and rich environment for the arts and technology!


i have an NextGen ATSC 3.0 tuner. I can see new stations showng up. I see 5001 and up. No programming yet.


----------



## trabin

SBRUSKI said:


> Just ran a scan and came up with 9 new channels. Got Fox Weather too.
> Most were Conn. based , Not strong signals. Not gonna fight for them.
> My 1987 Winegard is kicking azz.
> The KC/Cinn game looked awesome. Except the outcome.
> 82+ clear channels. Gotta love winter.


Get an amp boost your signal.


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## jrampoldi

StreetInsider: New York City Public TV Plans NEXTGEN TV Launch - ATSC : NextGen TV


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## hancox

jrampoldi said:


> StreetInsider: New York City Public TV Plans NEXTGEN TV Launch - ATSC : NextGen TV


Of note, from the bigger article:


> WLIW21 will carry high-definition programming from both WLIW21 and THIRTEEN, along with several standard-definition commercial sub-channels and the THIRTEEN PBS Kids service. As part of the transition to NEXT GEN TV, viewers may expect features including 4K, interactivity, HDR, advanced emergency messaging, additional CC and audio languages, and more, all of which are in the works.


I'll believe when seen. Exciting to finally see an ATSC3 signal coming to NY, sort of disappointed that it's the most redundant programming.


----------



## rhrisch

jrampoldi said:


> StreetInsider: New York City Public TV Plans NEXTGEN TV Launch - ATSC : NextGen TV


The article doesn't say anything about the NYC gov stations on channel 25. I guess they are not part of PBS. Unfortunately, the article doesn't address the question of when this will happen so l don't know how long to wait to get a 3.0 tuner. I am a big fan of content on the four channel 21 stations which come in very strong right now.


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## Antenna Man PA

Hopefully another station hosts 3.0 like WNYW so that the major networks can jump on board. I can't imagine people going out of their way to get these PBS stations (which they probably already get) with slightly better picture quality. More PBS channels is a great way to put your guests to sleep!


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## ansky212

What incentive do the networks have to upgrade to 3.0? I would think they would need to find a way to profit off the upgrade before making any moves. The average person doesn't even realize that broadcast TV still exists, so anyone watching OTA only represents a very small fraction of the overall TV audience.


----------



## LenL

No date given but if this statement is true: "installation of a new transmitter and related equipment, and upgrades to the station's physical plant, *all of which have already been completed*. The transition is subject to FCC approval, and The WNET Group will make a separate announcement upon the launch of the NEXTGEN TV service. "

Then this ATSC3.0 broadcasting event could/should be real soon. Only problem is there probably is not enough people with equipment that can handle ATSC 3.0 out there to view the programming.

I'm a big PBS viewer too! Well over 50% of what I watch/record is PBS shows.


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## SBRUSKI

trabin said:


> Get an amp boost your signal.


Amp's in place. A covid19.1 project of April 2021.
I get more channels, but with pixies . Antenna is tuna'd to my choice channels.
Interesting how different tv tuna's get different channels off the same antenna. 
No channels were important enough for a new separate tuna.*🐟*


----------



## hancox

LenL said:


> No date given but if this statement is true: "installation of a new transmitter and related equipment, and upgrades to the station's physical plant, *all of which have already been completed*. The transition is subject to FCC approval, and The WNET Group will make a separate announcement upon the launch of the NEXTGEN TV service. "
> 
> Then this ATSC3.0 broadcasting event could/should be real soon. Only problem is there probably is not enough people with equipment that can handle ATSC 3.0 out there to view the programming.
> 
> I'm a big PBS viewer too! Well over 50% of what I watch/record is PBS shows.


Correct. Usually news like this sneaks out either concurrent with, or just after, FCC work. Think weeks. Then again, who knows.


----------



## Brian in CT

ansky212 said:


> The average person doesn't even realize that broadcast TV still exists, so anyone watching OTA only represents a very small fraction of the overall TV audience.


I believe you are right about the former. As for the latter, Nielsen says about 1/6th of USA households use OTA for television. That is a not-so-small minority, considering OTA was only used in less than 1/12th of USA households in 2010.


----------



## LenL

So when does the 5 years of ATSC 1.0 having to be available start? Year 2022? So ATSC 1.0 can be turned off in 2028? Or 2029 at the latest?


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## mrradiohead55

LenL said:


> So when does the 5 years of ATSC 1.0 having to be available start? Year 2022? So ATSC 1.0 can be turned off in 2028? Or 2029 at the latest?


IF I am understanding you correctly, the 5 years becomes effective from date of publication in the public register, per each station that begins an ATSC 3.0 broadcast. There isn't a _blanket year_ that determines when the 5 years period ends. Keep in mind that the _5 years_ is subjective to the local market TV conditions and if enough of the market has moved to receive OTA TV as an ATSC 3.0 signal. The FCC ultimately makes the decision and the length of time could be extended. The information can be found in FCC 17-158 (November 20, 2017).

From that FCC document that specifies the 5 year rule, it reads like this...

_25. We require that, for the time being, the programming aired on the ATSC 1.0 simulcast channel be “substantially similar” to that of the primary video programming stream on the ATSC 3.0 channel. We define this requirement to mean that the programming on the 1.0 simulcast channel and the 3.0 primary stream must be the same, except for programming features that are based on the enhanced capabilities of ATSC 3.0, advertisements, and promotions for upcoming programs. This approach will help ensure that viewers do not lose access to the broadcast programming they receive today, while still providing flexibility for broadcasters to innovate and experiment with new, innovative programming features using Next Gen TV technology. The substantially similar requirement will sunset in five years from its effective date (i.e., the date it is published in the Federal Register) absent further action by the Commission via rulemaking to extend it. While we conclude that this requirement is necessary in the early stages of ATSC 3.0 deployment, it could unnecessarily impede Next Gen TV programming innovations as the deployment of ATSC 3.0 progresses. We intend to monitor the ATSC 3.0 marketplace, and will extend the substantially similar requirement if necessary._


----------



## unsmiley

Did WJLP switch antennas again? In the middle of the day I can't pick it up in Manhattan (Upper East Side) for at least a week. Seems to happen every few months , then it returns to normal.


----------



## LenL

mrradiohead55,

Thanks for the info. The way I read it ATSC1.0 could go away sooner than 5 years!


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## Joseph Rubin

unsmiley said:


> Did WJLP switch antennas again? In the middle of the day I can't pick it up in Manhattan (Upper East Side) for at least a week. Seems to happen every few months , then it returns to normal.


Hey there.
I also had these exact intermittent issues coming every few weeks or so, then going back to perfect. And it was only on the RF channel 3 channels that this was happening to. So the channel I watch mostly, Metv, was never reliable enough for me to consider full cord cutting. I tried so many antennas, locations, cables. Splitters, tuners, e.t.c e.t.c e.t.c. it would always first be perfect for weeks. Months even. Then just when I started believing that maybe this new antenna has finally fixed it. But then to my horror it would just happen again, knock out the signal for hours or days. Then back to normal.
After years of experimenting and researching it. I realized finally that it must be that it's just local noise interference from LED lights or house electronics e.t.c. and the only way to really overcome these interferences, is by using the right type of antenna for this specific channel.
So given that this is RF channel 3, that means it's a Lo VHF band. And I then realized that indeed all those electric/active antennas I've tried, none are really calibrated for Lo VHF. They all just do UHF and some add a rod for Hi VHF, but none of them are made to pick up Lo VHF, because the Lo vhf requires a very long element, which is kinda why I was avoiding it in the first place, thinking I don't really need it cause I'm close enough to the source (less than 10 miles, in Brooklyn), and the other antennas were all picking it up perfectly fine, except for those times when it was bad. So I didn't think I'd need the much larger Lo VHF antenna. But after years of trying everything else with no luck. I finally bought on Amazon the smallest size antenna that has the Lo vhf elements. Which is the Winegard HD7000r. I had that installed on the roof of my building before the summer I think. So it's been a good 8 or 9 months ago, and the signal for metv channel has been as steady and stable as a cable connection. Never a glitch! It's unreal almost.
It's very very obvious that this was indeed the correct solution to the problem.
Sadly not everyone can use these Antennas because of the size. But if you could install it on the roof or something like that. I highly recommend it


----------



## scorpiony

unsmiley said:


> Did WJLP switch antennas again? In the middle of the day I can't pick it up in Manhattan (Upper East Side) for at least a week. Seems to happen every few months , then it returns to normal.


I live on UWS and having the same issue you are describing. Last night I had a signal reading ( via SIGNAL GH iPhone app) quality 78% and strength of 94% with perfect picture, this morning quality 0% strength 97% and no picture. It seems my signal strength is always high but quality continually shifting from 0% to upper 80%. 
I think the issue is the fact that this is a low band VHF channel and requires a low band antenna which I can’t use living in an apartment. Topography of Manhattan plus weather changes may be the reason for our issue. I do not have any issues with UHF band and even high VHF band reception. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joseph Rubin

scorpiony said:


> I live on UWS and having the same issue you are describing. Last night I had a signal reading ( via SIGNAL GH iPhone app) quality 78% and strength of 94% with perfect picture, this morning quality 0% strength 97% and no picture. It seems my signal strength is always high but quality continually shifting from 0% to upper 80%.
> I think the issue is the fact that this is a low band VHF channel and requires a low band antenna which I can’t use living in an apartment.topography of Manhattan plus weather changes may be the reason for the issue not using the correct antenna, I do not have any issues with UHF band and even high VHF band.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is exactly why. I had the same issues for years, till I finally installed my current antenna that has the Lo Vhf elements. And my picture hasn't dropped out once since
Till this antenna I had it exactly like you described. It would be perfect for days or weeks, then the quality would drop completely, while the strength stayed strong. Which told me right away that it must be local noise interference (LED light, etc). The only way I managed to overcome it. Is with a Lo VHF antenna. (I'm using the Winegard HD7000R, loving it).


----------



## scorpiony

Joseph Rubin said:


> It is exactly why. I had the same issues for years, till I finally installed my current antenna that has the Lo Vhf elements. And my picture hasn't dropped out once since
> Till this antenna I had it exactly like you described. It would be perfect for days or weeks, then the quality would drop completely, while the strength stayed strong. Which told me right away that it must be local noise interference (LED light, etc). The only way I managed to overcome it. Is with a Lo VHF antenna. (I'm using the Winegard HD7000R, loving it).


Unfortunately I can’t do it living in Manhattan 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Joseph Rubin

scorpiony said:


> Unfortunately I can’t do it living in Manhattan
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yaa, that's the big downside of Lo VHF. It's size. I wonder if any companies are trying to miniaturize it? That would be awesome


----------



## Trip in VA

Joseph Rubin said:


> Yaa, that's the big downside of Lo VHF. It's size. I wonder if any companies are trying to miniaturize it? That would be awesome


Unfortunately, the laws of physics are difficult for any company to change. 

- Trip


----------



## scorpiony

Trip in VA said:


> Unfortunately, the laws of physics are difficult for any company to change.
> 
> - Trip


I just checked again WJLP and signal quality is back from 0% this morning to 70% and of course picture is back as well. 
There is no doubt that low VHF band is much more sensitive to the antenna type being used as well as the urban structure of Manhattan and the weather pattern. 

It is definitely not any transmitter work being taken place at the moment. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pabuwal

scorpiony said:


> I just checked again WJLP and signal quality is back from 0% this morning to 70% and of course picture is back as well.
> There is no doubt that low VHF band is much more sensitive to the antenna type being used as well as the urban structure of Manhattan and the weather pattern.
> 
> It is definitely not any transmitter work being taken place at the moment.
> View attachment 3235845
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would lower your expectations if you don't have a VHF-lo antenna with the large elements. I have one and WJLP is always good. On occasion my CM 4228 will receive it, but not often.


----------



## scorpiony

pabuwal said:


> I would lower your expectations if you don't have a VHF-lo antenna with the large elements. I have one and WJLP is always good. On occasion my CM 4228 will receive it, but not often.


I have no expectations , I was explaining the issue to another member, apparently you have not been reading my previous posts 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joseph Rubin

scorpiony said:


> I just checked again WJLP and signal quality is back from 0% this morning to 70% and of course picture is back as well.
> There is no doubt that low VHF band is much more sensitive to the antenna type being used as well as the urban structure of Manhattan and the weather pattern.
> 
> It is definitely not any transmitter work being taken place at the moment.
> View attachment 3235845
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bad weather never interrupted my MeTv signal. Not since installing my Lo Vhf antenna. So it isn't really weather. Weather shouldn't really affect it much, it's local noise interference


----------



## scorpiony

Joseph Rubin said:


> Bad weather never interrupted my MeTv signal. Not since installing my Lo Vhf antenna. So it isn't really weather. Weather shouldn't really affect it much, it's local noise interference


I agree with, makes more sense 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## foxycat

I live in a northern suburb of NYC. I lost my PBS station, channel 13 WNET, about a week ago. It started as a "Weak" connection, then no message at all. I've tried rescanning all my stations 3 times, but 13 shows only visual static. Is there something going on with the World Trade Center transmitter?


----------



## pabuwal

foxycat said:


> I live in a northern suburb of NYC. I lost my PBS station, channel 13 WNET, about a week ago. It started as a "Weak" connection, then no message at all. I've tried rescanning all my stations 3 times, but 13 shows only visual static. Is there something going on with the World Trade Center transmitter?


Seems like the usual strength.


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## LenL

13 WNET is good at my location. Check your antenna connections and for any LED light interference especially if you can check that signal strength is good and it is signal quality that is the issue.


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## foxycat

The exact message is "Weak or no signal." Nothing wrong with the connection, turned off the LED lamp, and I get about 60 other stations just fine. How would I check the signal strength?


----------



## Brian in CT

foxycat said:


> The exact message is "Weak or no signal." Nothing wrong with the connection, turned off the LED lamp, and I get about 60 other stations just fine. How would I check the signal strength?


I would hope your Samsung has a signal meter built in. Most TV receivers I know of do. Check the owner's manual to see if you have one and how to activate it.

A wildly fluctuating signal meter reading for WNET would show that the signal is being interfered with. That could be causing the "weak or no signal" display, as opposed to having zero signal at all.


----------



## fri1038

foxycat said:


> The exact message is "Weak or no signal." Nothing wrong with the connection, turned off the LED lamp, and I get about 60 other stations just fine. How would I check the signal strength?


On my similar set ... it's just a simple graph with ten bars.

Menu -> Self Diagnosis -> Signal Strength


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## foxycat

fri1038 said:


> On my similar set ... it's just a simple graph with ten bars.
> 
> Menu -> Self Diagnosis -> Signal Strength


"Signal information" is grayed out on channel 13.


----------



## rhrisch

foxycat said:


> "Signal information" is grayed out on channel 13.


On my Hisense, signal strength is given as a percentage, I think. Of what, I don't know. You find it on the Help menu under Signal Information. For example, Channel 2 is coming in at 70 and Channel 13 is at 49, Channel 33 at 61. The all look ok. I think anything above 20 will give the same result as far as the viewer is concerned.


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## fri1038

foxycat said:


> "Signal information" is grayed out on channel 13.


My Samsung needs to be tuned into a digital station for the signal strength meter to work - which you can't do right now for that station. 🤷‍♂️

WNET broadcasts on channel 12, displaying virtual channel 13. How are your other VHF stations, like WABC (7) and WPIX (11) ? What kind of antenna?


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## foxycat

This is totally counterintuitive: I tuned in 12, it changed to 13, and it's back to normal. Many thanks.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WEDW filed for a STA extension today.
> 
> In the exhibit they mention that the order dismissing PMCM's appeal became final on November 22nd. Lease negotiations with the Empire State Building should be done by the end of the month, with construction beginning as soon as the CP modification is approved.


I wonder if there has been any update. January has come and gone and it has now been 2 months and the DTS app looks like it is still not approved.


----------



## Pappas3278

New to the thread and tried searching for a solution to my problem but couldn't zero in on anything really.

For us apartment dwellers in Manhattan, I assume we're mostly in a very similar geographic situation. Is there a particular antenna type that is recommended? 

I was having generally good reception with a South window-facing mount with a flat-type antenna. Recently "upgraded" to a new TV (Panny to a Sony) and now I'm not pulling the channels that I once was. Obviously that is a difference in the tuner sensitivity. Is there magic bullet?


----------



## KyL416

Which stations did you lose?

If they were the VHF ones like 7/WABC (RF 7), 11/WPIX (RF 11), 13/WNET (RF 12) or 33/WJLP (RF 3), odds are that's because flat antennas are designed for UHF reception and what little VHF reception you previously got was via the cable coming from the antenna. After you connected it to the new TV, you probably changed the positioning of that cable so it no longer received the VHF stations as well.


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## Pappas3278

The main channels are 4/WNBC, 7/WABC and 9/WWOR. There was some others in the upper range, 20s.

And you're absolutely right about moving that cable from the TV to the antenna. Gonna try reposition that cable.

Sounds like I need something that pulls both UHF and VHF. Thought I already was to be honest but learn something new.


----------



## Brian in CT

@Pappas3278 If your flat antenna has a cheap thin cable, that may be part of the problem. Those wires can easily get kinked up, so cable positioning can be important. That would affect your UHF and VHF reception.

You are possibly also dealing with multipath from the TV signals bouncing around the "canyons" of Manhattan, causing pixelation and dropouts. If there are numerous obstructions between your south facing window and 1WTC, a better antenna might not help enough to fix your reception problem. I hope I'm wrong about that, but still save the receipts you get for any new antenna and cable. I say this because an old acquaintance of mine was unsuccessful trying to get any reception in her ground floor apartment in downtown Hartford (circa 2010). Hope that window of yours has a good view.


----------



## Pappas3278

Never thought to put the antenna on a wall but tried it just now and now I'm pulling those missing channels. I just figured the window (large bay type) would be the best option, but, no. Big no. Now I just have to get a good quality coax cable to make the run from the TV uninterrupted. I noticed I have a splice which probably isn't helping.

Should I shell out for that coax cable or just go to Comcast and ask for a long run?

**UPDATE: While new antenna position pulled previous missing channels, new missing channels cropped up.


----------



## Brian in CT

Pappas3278 said:


> Never thought to put the antenna on a wall but tried it just now and now I'm pulling those missing channels. I just figured the window (large bay type) would be the best option, but, no. Big no. Now I just have to get a good quality coax cable to make the run from the TV uninterrupted. I noticed I have a splice which probably isn't helping.
> 
> Should I shell out for that coax cable or just go to Comcast and ask for a long run?


Wow. Is your building made of concrete or cinder block? If so, you're lucky to get reception away from a window. VHF TV signals don't penetrate those materials that well, so a window is usually the only good placement for an antenna in a typical apartment building. Glad to hear the new location is working out for you.

If Comcast is willing to give you a run of RG-6 (do you know somebody working there?), why not. Most likely, you will need to go to an electronics store to buy coaxial cable. Even a 50-foot roll of RG-6 shouldn't cost that much.


----------



## Pappas3278

I'm as surprised as you for sure. Being up on the 7th floor might be helping here (50ft?). 

I'll spring for the quality RG-6 because I'm not exactly sure what Comcast uses.


----------



## ansky212

I'm guessing this will land on WJLP: MeTV Owner Weigel Broadcasting to Launch Story Television, Its First Unscripted National Network (EXCLUSIVE)


----------



## Brian in CT

Pappas3278 said:


> I'm as surprised as you for sure. Being up on the 7th floor might be helping here (50ft?).
> 
> I'll spring for the quality RG-6 because I'm not exactly sure what Comcast uses.


Yes, your height AGL is helping avoid obstructions. I'm guessing since you're so close to the transmitters, there's still enough VHF signal after going through your wall for you to lock in reception.

I don't know what Comcast uses either. I know Cablevision and Frontier use (or used) RG-6. If it's going to be free, no harm in trying it out.


----------



## unsmiley

Joseph Rubin said:


> Hey there.
> I also had these exact intermittent issues coming every few weeks or so, then going back to perfect. And it was only on the RF channel 3 channels that this was happening to. So the channel I watch mostly, Metv, was never reliable enough for me to consider full cord cutting. I tried so many antennas, locations, cables. Splitters, tuners, e.t.c e.t.c e.t.c. it would always first be perfect for weeks. Months even. Then just when I started believing that maybe this new antenna has finally fixed it. But then to my horror it would just happen again, knock out the signal for hours or days. Then back to normal.
> After years of experimenting and researching it. I realized finally that it must be that it's just local noise interference from LED lights or house electronics e.t.c. and the only way to really overcome these interferences, is by using the right type of antenna for this specific channel.
> So given that this is RF channel 3, that means it's a Lo VHF band. And I then realized that indeed all those electric/active antennas I've tried, none are really calibrated for Lo VHF. They all just do UHF and some add a rod for Hi VHF, but none of them are made to pick up Lo VHF, because the Lo vhf requires a very long element, which is kinda why I was avoiding it in the first place, thinking I don't really need it cause I'm close enough to the source (less than 10 miles, in Brooklyn), and the other antennas were all picking it up perfectly fine, except for those times when it was bad. So I didn't think I'd need the much larger Lo VHF antenna. But after years of trying everything else with no luck. I finally bought on Amazon the smallest size antenna that has the Lo vhf elements. Which is the Winegard HD7000r. I had that installed on the roof of my building before the summer I think. So it's been a good 8 or 9 months ago, and the signal for metv channel has been as steady and stable as a cable connection. Never a glitch! It's unreal almost.
> It's very very obvious that this was indeed the correct solution to the problem.
> Sadly not everyone can use these Antennas because of the size. But if you could install it on the roof or something like that. I highly recommend it


Thanks for your thoughts. But I can't use your solution in a Manhattan high rise...


----------



## unsmiley

scorpiony said:


> Unfortunately I can’t do it living in Manhattan
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wonder if I could put up something unobtrusive or hidden on my terrace that would work. Anyone know the smallest Lo-V antenna that I could hide and would help pull in Me-TV in Manhattan?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

unsmiley said:


> I wonder if I could put up something unobtrusive or hidden on my terrace that would work. Anyone know the smallest Lo-V antenna that I could hide and would help pull in Me-TV in Manhattan?


You know, I don't know if this is a typo or a mistake, or if it really is true. But on the Channel Master website, that claim that the Omni+50 antenna is somehow optimized for Lo Vhf. That's what it says in the item description. But I strongly suspect it's a mistake. Cause while it does have a Vhf rod, I still don't see how it would be optimized for Lo Vhf. That rod isn't large enough. So not sure.
But maybe worth a try?


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## Joseph Rubin

unsmiley said:


> I wonder if I could put up something unobtrusive or hidden on my terrace that would work. Anyone know the smallest Lo-V antenna that I could hide and would help pull in Me-TV in Manhattan?


Here it is. I just checked again. It still claims that... Look...









If that is true, that it should be.... SOMEHOW.... Optimized for Lo Vhf as well.

Here is a link to the channel Master site....










Omni+ 50


The Omni+ from Channel Master is an outdoor omnidirectional HDTV antenna. With range averaging 50+ miles, this is a great outdoor HDTV antenna for rural areas.




www.channelmaster.com


----------



## Brian in CT

unsmiley said:


> I wonder if I could put up something unobtrusive or hidden on my terrace that would work. Anyone know the smallest Lo-V antenna that I could hide and would help pull in Me-TV in Manhattan?


Since you're so close to the transmitter, a cheap pair of rabbit ears could do the trick. Of course, when dealing with the canyons of Manhattan, multipath can work against you, so it's no slam dunk solution. You'd probably have to pull them to their full extent, so that might make them not so hidden. Even so, I think they're worth a shot before buying something much more expensive.


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## ansky212

So just about 3 months now and the modified DTS for WEDW/WZME is still not approved. I'm guessing there must be some dispute going on again that we don't know about? Seems like a long review time for what was just a minor modification to a previously approved application.


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## KyL416

Weigel's new diginet Story Television will be coming to WZME 43.1, WJLP 33.7 and WNWT 37.1 on March 28th.

MeTV+ will be moving to WZME 43.2 and WJLP 33.8


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> Weigel's new diginet Story Television will be coming to WZME 43.1 and WJLP 33.3 on March 28th.
> 
> MeTV+ will be moving to WZME 43.2


Dang it! This makes me wanna pick up 43 even more. I don't get that at all right now. Any chance they are gonna boost the signal too?


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> Dang it! This makes me wanna pick up 43 even more. I don't get that at all right now. Any chance they are gonna boost the signal too?


If the DTS came on the air that would put WZME's signal all over NYC and north Jersey. Doesn't look like that is happening anytime soon.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> If the DTS came on the air that would put WZME's signal all over NYC and north Jersey. Doesn't look like that is happening anytime soon.


Dang it! That is really pissing me off. Cause I really want the MeTv+ channel.
This is very disappointing...... But on the other, I'm excited for the 28th to see the new sub coming to 33.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Anything changed with the 55 channels? I never ever picked it up till now, now I all of a sudden got it, and it works perfectly so far! (I wish it stays this good. Cause it adds Comet, n Charge channels, pretty sweet!)
Anyone know if anything changed on this channel?


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## KyL416

No. It's just the abnormally warm weather pattern causing atmospheric boost conditions. The live bandscan on RabbitEars shows that it was being picked up as far away as Bethlehem PA earlier today.

WLNY has no construction permits to increase their power or change tower sites. Plus because of their Riverhead community of license they can't move their signal to Manhattan.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> No. It's just the abnormally warm weather pattern causing atmospheric boost conditions. The live bandscan on RabbitEars shows that it was being picked up as far away as Bethlehem PA earlier today.
> 
> WLNY has no construction permits to increase their power or change tower sites. Plus because of their Riverhead community of license they can't move their signal to Manhattan.


Thanks for the info. At least I know now not to bother re scanning all my other tuners just for this.
Thanks again
Edit: ya ...... It's the next morning now, and the signal for 55's is indeed completely gone again. Oh well, easy come easy go. Hehe.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> Weigel's new diginet Story Television will be coming to WZME 43.1 and WJLP 33.7 on March 28th.
> 
> MeTV+ will be moving to WZME 43.2, WJLP 33.8 and WNWT 37.1


Hold on hold on hold on ......
Did you edit your message later? Or did I misread it completely the first time?
Cause now I'm seeing that I don't really need the 43 channels for anything, cause both the new Story channel. And the MeTv+ channel, are also going to be in the 33's??!! That is awesome!!! But it didn't say so originally, right?


----------



## KyL416

MeTV+ is now live on WJLP 33.8. Although it's currently flagged as hidden in the Virtual Channel Table, so most tuners will ignore it until it officially makes its move next week.

There's also an unmapped placeholder for Story Television that's showing a promo loop on program 7. Some tuners might store this as 3.7 since it isn't mapped to 33.7 yet.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> MeTV+ is now live on WJLP 33.8. Although it's currently flagged as hidden in the Virtual Channel Table, so most tuners will ignore it until it officially makes its move next week.
> 
> There's also an unmapped placeholder for Story Television that's showing a promo loop on program 7. Some tuners might store this as 3.7 since it isn't mapped to 33.7 yet.


Haaa I actually came across the 3.7 yesterday..
I just checked them. 3.7 just says story channel coming 28th. But 3.8 is already playing MeTv+!! Sweeeet. (It's just in narrow mode, so I gotta use a box that has the feature to stretch and zoom. With a stretch, it looks perfect)


----------



## KyL416

They removed the hidden flags today. If you do a rescan you should now see Story on 33.7 and MeTV+ on 33.8


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> They removed the hidden flags today. If you do a rescan you should now see Story on 33.7 and MeTV+ on 33.8


Nice. Let me do a re scan


----------



## ansky212

So now that Story and MeTV+ are on WJLP I'm thinking the DTS from Empire is probably off the table. WZME would not provide them any additional coverage that WJLP does not already cover.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> So now that Story and MeTV+ are on WJLP I'm thinking the DTS from Empire is probably off the table. WZME would not provide them any additional coverage that WJLP does not already cover.


I personally couldn't care less anymore what they do. Nothing they have to offer me now


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> I'm thinking the DTS from Empire is probably off the table. WZME would not provide them any additional coverage that WJLP does not already cover.


WEDW stil hasn't finished their post repack RF 21 signal from either site. The initial DTS CP has already been granted, what's still pending is the final modifications. They already have the plans approved and the equipment ordered, but since it involves an expansion in coverage, it can't be expedited like other modification apps. WEDW's previous standalone CP for a different tower in Stamford has since expired and was only the backup plan if the original DTS application didn't get approved.

And the DTS is very much still useful as it will give Weigel (and their advertisers) a metro NYC UHF signal that would be better reaching those apartment dwellers who don't have the ability install a full band outdoor antenna or get adequate VHF-lo reception with an indoor antenna because of the direction their apartment faces and/or the metal inside their walls, along with those viewers who prefer aesthetics over physics when choosing their antennas. Not to mention the cases where the ambient noise that wipes out VHF-lo reception is originating from cheap noisy electronics a neighboring apartment is using.

WZME's signal will also have Story in HD on 43.1, while the WJLP feed on 33.7 is SD only. It will also help them expand their cable carriage since right now cable providers outside of their coverage area don't have to honor their must carry request. (i.e. right now only Optimum's Connecticut systems and some of their Westchester systems carry WZME)


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WEDW stil hasn't finished their post repack RF 21 signal from either site. The initial DTS CP has already been granted, what's still pending is the final modifications. They already have the plans approved and the equipment ordered, but since it involves an expansion in coverage, it can't be expedited like other modification apps. WEDW's previous standalone CP for a different tower in Stamford has since expired and was only the backup plan if the original DTS application didn't get approved.
> 
> And the DTS is very much still useful as it will give Weigel (and their advertisers) a metro NYC UHF signal that would be better reaching those apartment dwellers who don't have the ability install a full band outdoor antenna or get adequate VHF-lo reception with an indoor antenna because of the direction their apartment faces and/or the metal inside their walls, along with those viewers who prefer aesthetics over physics when choosing their antennas. Not to mention the cases where the ambient noise that wipes out VHF-lo reception is originating from cheap noisy electronics a neighboring apartment is using.
> 
> WZME's signal will also have Story in HD on 43.1, while the WJLP feed on 33.7 is SD only.


I guess we'll see how it plays out. The application was submitted as a "minor" modification so it seemed odd that it's been 3 months and it's still not approved. I thought the coverage area was the same as the already approved CP, but they were changing to one transmitter instead of two.


----------



## KyL416

Nope, the modification changes the coverage area of both the ESB and Trumbull CT sites and also creates additional interference to WNYT's pending petition to move from RF 12 to RF 21 in Albany, so it can't be expedited.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> WEDW stil hasn't finished their post repack RF 21 signal from either site. The initial DTS CP has already been granted, what's still pending is the final modifications. They already have the plans approved and the equipment ordered, but since it involves an expansion in coverage, it can't be expedited like other modification apps. WEDW's previous standalone CP for a different tower in Stamford has since expired and was only the backup plan if the original DTS application didn't get approved.
> 
> And the DTS is very much still useful as it will give Weigel (and their advertisers) a metro NYC UHF signal that would be better reaching those apartment dwellers who don't have the ability install a full band outdoor antenna or get adequate VHF-lo reception with an indoor antenna because of the direction their apartment faces and/or the metal inside their walls, along with those viewers who prefer aesthetics over physics when choosing their antennas. Not to mention the cases where the ambient noise that wipes out VHF-lo reception is originating from cheap noisy electronics a neighboring apartment is using.
> 
> WZME's signal will also have Story in HD on 43.1, while the WJLP feed on 33.7 is SD only. It will also help them expand their cable carriage since right now cable providers outside of their coverage area don't have to honor their must carry request. (i.e. right now only Optimum's Connecticut systems and some of their Westchester systems carry WZME)


SOOOO...... I back to caring about it now! Cause now I do want the Story channel in HD!
So I'll be watching it to see what happens.
Please keep us updated here on any progress


----------



## A8H

Im done with OTA in NY. Its total shtshow. Antenna has been removed. What a shame.


----------



## LenL

A8H said:


> Im done with OTA in NY. Its total shtshow. Antenna has been removed. What a shame.


Sorry to see that you gave up since many of us are enjoying it. I get so many channels from 30 miles away that I can't even view them all!

You may be in a problem reception area or you don't have the right equipment!


----------



## Antenna Man PA

A8H said:


> Im done with OTA in NY. Its total shtshow. Antenna has been removed. What a shame.


Don't give up that easily. There are plenty of people in this group that can help including myself. What antenna were you using? Most times reception issues are to blame on either a junk antenna purchased on Amazon or the wrong antenna for a specific area. NYC has low VHF and about 99% of antennas out there do not have low VHF capability.


----------



## rhrisch

H


Antenna Man PA said:


> Don't give up that easily. There are plenty of people in this group that can help including myself. What antenna were you using? Most times reception issues are to blame on either a junk antenna purchased on Amazon or the wrong antenna for a specific area. NYC has low VHF and about 99% of antennas out there do not have low VHF capability.


Hi Tyler. I have an amplified Winegard GS-2200 Sensar III on my roof, about 135 ft above sea level, with an locally unobstructed view, pointing due south to the World Trade Center which is 33 miles away as the crow flies. I get over 70 channels but not some I would like to get like the real channel 24 and I get flaky reception of real channels 8 and 18. I do get good reception of real channel 3 which many here have trouble getting. I found the real channel numbers here: TV Antenna Broadcast Tower Signal Locator and Antenna Map | Mohu How much better can I do antenna wise? TIA.


----------



## KyL416

Since the World Trade Center signals are the strongest and highest, you likely have some wiggle room and don't need to point directly at it. You might want to focus on aiming towards the weaker signals that you want, like the NJ PBS stations on RF 8 come from a tower in Warrensville NJ, while WNYE on RF 24 comes from 4 Times Square.

WMBC on RF 18 has a construction permit to move solely to 1 World Trade Center, so you probably don't need to worry about trying to get their current Montclair Heights or ESB signals now.


----------



## Antenna Man PA

rhrisch said:


> I have an amplified Winegard GS-2200 Sensar III on my roof


You have a very basic "RV antenna" with little gain. No wonder you had issues. I would recommend the Televes DATBOSS Mix with low VHF. It has a built in preamplifier and more UHF gain than what you have now and should greatly improve your reception.


----------



## rhrisch

Antenna Man PA said:


> You have a very basic "RV antenna" with little gain. No wonder you had issues. I would recommend the Televes DATBOSS Mix with low VHF. It has a built in preamplifier and more UHF gain than what you have now and should greatly improve your reception.


Thanks Tyler. The link you give is for the Telves 148281. Your Youtube review is for the Telves 149483. The page for the 148281 on the Telves website also mentions the model 148220 which seems to have the same specifications. Are these numbers all for the same model? TIA. P.S. And there is a review of the brand new 149884 that was just posted today.


----------



## A8H

Antenna Man PA said:


> Don't give up that easily. There are plenty of people in this group that can help including myself. What antenna were you using? Most times reception issues are to blame on either a junk antenna purchased on Amazon or the wrong antenna for a specific area. NYC has low VHF and about 99% of antennas out there do not have low VHF capability.


I get signals just fine, its the compressed garbage they are putting out now. It was so much better years ago.


----------



## LenL

A8H said:


> I get signals just fine, its the compressed garbage they are putting out now. It was so much better years ago.


Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. Compressed signals? My picture quality OTA is the best it has ever been! Better than the signals from OPtimum cable for the broadcast channels which are compressed! There is no place you can get the local broadcast channels with better a picture than OTA! Plus with ATSC 3.0 coming it may even be better! 

If you have no interest in local channels then your comments to give up OTA make sense. Otherwise it doesn't.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. Compressed signals? My picture quality OTA is the best it has ever been! Better than the signals from OPtimum cable for the broadcast channels which are compressed! There is no place you can get the local broadcast channels with better a picture than OTA! Plus with ATSC 3.0 coming it may even be better!
> 
> If you have no interest in local channels then your comments to give up OTA make sense. Otherwise it doesn't.


I'm guessing he is talking about the subchannels. While most main network channels look great, most subchannels are broadcast in standard definition and look pretty bad on a large TV.


----------



## mets18

LenL said:


> Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about. Compressed signals? My picture quality OTA is the best it has ever been! Better than the signals from OPtimum cable for the broadcast channels which are compressed! There is no place you can get the local broadcast channels with better a picture than OTA! Plus with ATSC 3.0 coming it may even be better!
> 
> If you have no interest in local channels then your comments to give up OTA make sense. Otherwise it doesn't.


He is correct. As more and more channels are being put on each RF channel it by definition decreases the quality of the picture. CBS back in the day when it had no subchannels was much better than it is today.


----------



## LenL

mets18 said:


> He is correct. As more and more channels are being put on each RF channel it by definition decreases the quality of the picture. CBS back in the day when it had no subchannels was much better than it is today.


I don't believe this to be true as what I see is the main channels 2.1, 4.1 5.1 etc all have great picture. Sure the subs take a hit and rightfully so but all of the really new and main programs are NOT on the subs. Secondly where does he think he can get a better picture of the main Rf channels? Not on cable or streaming services. Then once ATSC 3.0 comes along the picture will be even better. I watch a lot of PBS nature shows and the details are breathtaking. Sometimes I think it is 1080p and not 1080i.

Sure if you only watch the subs you may have a complaint. But the subs are awful on cable too! Side by side OTA has better picture across the board then my cable company Optimum.

Now some programming like "news" shows purposely reduce the picture quality so you don't see the detail flaws in the faces of the newscasters.


----------



## logger-a

KyL416 said:


> WEDW stil hasn't finished their post repack RF 21 signal from either site. The initial DTS CP has already been granted, what's still pending is the final modifications. They already have the plans approved and the equipment ordered, but since it involves an expansion in coverage, it can't be expedited like other modification apps. WEDW's previous standalone CP for a different tower in Stamford has since expired and was only the backup plan if the original DTS application didn't get approved.


According to the brief filed by the FCC regarding the challenge by PMCM TV to the approval by the FCC of an application of Connecticut Public Broadcasting to convert WEDW to DTS operations:


> The same day that Connecticut Broadcasting applied for its Stamford construction permit, another station (WDVB-CD) filed a separate application that “would have caused interference to WEDW’s proposed facility, especially in the underserved area to which WEDW was seeking to expand.”


If the DTS application, which was was filed after than the Stamford CP application, was not approved, broadcasting on RF 21 from Stamford would not have been a viable option.


----------



## Aero 1

LenL said:


> I don't believe this to be true as what I see is the main channels 2.1, 4.1 5.1 etc all have great picture. Sure the subs take a hit and rightfully so but all of the really new and main programs are NOT on the subs. Secondly where does he think he can get a better picture of the main Rf channels? Not on cable or streaming services. Then once ATSC 3.0 comes along the picture will be even better. I watch a lot of PBS nature shows and the details are breathtaking. Sometimes I think it is 1080p and not 1080i.
> 
> Sure if you only watch the subs you may have a complaint. But the subs are awful on cable too! Side by side OTA has better picture across the board then my cable company Optimum.
> 
> Now some programming like "news" shows purposely reduce the picture quality so you don't see the detail flaws in the faces of the newscasters.



no, no, no. nyc ota is garbage. how big is your tv? it will look great on a 32 inch but like garbage on anything bigger.

how can you say that a bitstarved, co shared channel with another station with multiple subchannels like wnbc that broadcasts at about a max of about 7 Mbits/s because it has to fit a bunch of other channels in a 19 Mbits/s transport using a 20 year old pretty much deprecated codec that handles horrible compression?

looks good or bad is subjective, but actual data shows that NYC OTA is hot garbage, soft, blurry, bit starved hot garbage. oh yea, ota audio is also old crap but not as horrible as video:










their website feed using mp4 with the same bitrate looks better, not by much, but better. garbage in, garbage out:


----------



## unsmiley

ansky212 said:


> I'm guessing he is talking about the subchannels. While most main network channels look great, most subchannels are broadcast in standard definition and look pretty bad on a large TV.


I have marveled at the quality of Decades (channel 5.5) broadcast. That's one subchannel that's beautiful on my tv for some reason.


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Aero 1 said:


> no, no, no. nyc ota is garbage. how big is your tv? it will look great on a 32 inch but like garbage on anything bigger.
> 
> how can you say that a bitstarved, co shared channel with another station with multiple subchannels like wnbc that broadcasts at about a max of about 7 Mbits/s because it has to fit a bunch of other channels in a 19 Mbits/s transport using a 20 year old pretty much deprecated codec that handles horrible compression?
> 
> looks good or bad is subjective, but actual data shows that NYC OTA is hot garbage, soft, blurry, bit starved hot garbage. oh yea, ota audio is also old crap but not as horrible as video:


It looks good to me and probably 99.9% of people who are happy just to get digital channels for free over the air. Think of what we had before. One single channel with static and ghosting. Now one RF channel can hold between 5-10 channels. I could care less if there are a few compression artifacts on a large TV. I'm getting it for free.

TV stations are in the business of selling content, not picture quality. No sales person is going to say "advertise with us because we have the least compressed HD signal!"


----------



## LenL

Aero 1,

I am passing the OTA signal directly into my *Samsung 65 inch UHD TV*. It appears you are using equipment to upscale the native 4.1 1080i signal to 3840x2160 which is not a clean look compared to what I am doing. That upscaling you are doing might be a problem. In addition as I have said some shows are purposely degrading the picture so you don't see the warts on the show hosts. This is done by ABC news for their news programming.

There is absolutely a better picture OTA versus Cable for any broadcast channels! I can see it with my eyes and not using HD homerun to upscale! Bypass your hd home run and feed into a quality TV and you will see! I have both cable and OTA for broadcast viewing.

As I have said PBS nature shows, the Amazing race are examples of great picture quality shows!


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Aero 1,
> 
> I am passing the OTA signal directly into my *Samsung 65 inch UHD TV*. It appears you are using equipment to upscale the native 4.1 1080i signal to 3840x2160 which is not a clean look compared to what I am doing. That upscaling you are doing might be a problem. In addition as I have said some shows are purposely degrading the picture so you don't see the warts on the show hosts. This is done by ABC news for their news programming.
> 
> There is absolutely a better picture OTA versus Cable for any broadcast channels! I can see it with my eyes and not using HD homerun to upscale! Bypass your hd home run and feed into a quality TV and you will see! I have both cable and OTA for broadcast viewing.
> 
> As I have said PBS nature shows, the Amazing race are examples of great picture quality shows!


Your PBS nature shows are about to start looking even better! Apparently PBS is the first channel that already started the process of switching over to ATSC 3.0! I can't wait to see it! (I have the HDHR Flex 4k, so that has 2 3.0 tuners). Apparently the way this will happen is, the 21's will move from UHF 32 to their VHF 12 channel, so The VHF 12 channel will then carry both the 13's and 21's (for a total of 3 HD and 3 SD channels) and the UHF 32 will be transformed to the new 3.0 signal.
I can't wait to finally see 3.0 in action! And I gotta say I'm shocked that PBS will be before all the major money making networks. But I'm kinda glad, cause like you mentioned, The nature shows they have already look amazing in HD, so they'll probably look even better in 4k.


----------



## KyL416

You're not going to see anything in 4K when ATSC 3.0 launches. Because of the shared situation the most you'll get is 1080p, but even that's just deinterlaced from the same 1080i/30 PBS network feeds in use now and not natively 1080p/60.

Also, more than just WNET, WLIW and WNJB will be participating as WNET's RF 12 signal alone can't host the ATSC 1.0 simulcasts for WLIW, Create, World and All Arts, while WNJB's New Jersey based RF 8 signal that drops off East of Queens and North of The Bronx won't pass the coverage area requirements to host any of the simulcasts.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> You're not going to see them in 4K when ATSC 3.0 launches. Because of the shared situation the most you'll get is 1080p, but even that's just originating from the same 1080i network feeds.


So just upscaled??
Hmm... That's a little disappointing. But I'm still excited to at least see it in action finally. Been years of promises now


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> You're not going to see them in 4K when ATSC 3.0 launches. Because of the shared situation the most you'll get is 1080p, but even that's just originating from the same 1080i network feeds.


Any chance do you know if any channel is planning to bring back the Newsmax2 sub channel? (You seem you know a lot of info on the local channels scene, so I'm hoping maybe you heard something?)


----------



## KyL416

Unless Newsmax wants to pay to be on one of the area LPTV signals, don't hold your breath.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> Unless Newsmax wants to pay to be on one of the area LPTV signals, don't hold your breath.


Dang it! I really liked that channel on 33.8! But it was only there for a few weeks maybe. I don't understand why they got rid of this channel, but left Laff and mystery, despite both those already being on the 31's. But they kept those doubles, and got rid of the Newsmax2 channel. Makes no sense to me. (But I suspect politics had a lot to do with it. Probably not left enough)


----------



## KyL416

NTD and Newsmax were pay to play deals similar to what infomercial and religious channels do for carriage, while New Jersey Newsnet (and its mix of Newsnet and syndicated programming), the Marine Weather channel and the radio simulcasts were tied to the former owner Press Communications and not included as part of the sale to Weigel.

Grit and Mystery have contracts that don't expire until December 2026, Laff's doesn't expire until December 2024 and Retro and Heartland don't expire until January 2025. By the time they expire, Weigel will either have even more new networks to launch in their place or their deals with Fox for H&I and Decades will have expired and they might want to bring them in house. (WWOR's H&I deal expires on 10/1/2023 and WNYW's Decades deal expires on 9/30/2024)


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> NTD and Newsmax were pay to play deals similar to what infomerical and religious channels do for carriage, while New Jersey Newsnet (and its mix of Newsnet and syndicated programming), the Marine Weather channel and the radio simulcasts were tied to the former owner Press Communications and not included as part of the sale to Weigel.
> 
> Grit and Mystery have contracts that don't expire until December 2026, Laff's doesn't expire until December 2024 and Retro and Heartland don't expire until January 2025. By the time they expire, Weigel will either have even more new networks to launch in their place or their deals with Fox for H&I and Decades will have expired and they might want to bring them in house. (WWOR's H&I deal expires on 10/1/2023 and WNYW's Decades deal expires on 9/30/2024)


Thanks for the info.
Ya you know that's what I thought would make most sense for Weigel to do, is eventually bring over H&I and decades, that would be the only RF channel I'd need then, these are all my favs. I wish they did combine all these to one RF channel. MeTv, MeTv+, Grit, Retro, H&I, Decades. That would be all I really need. Lol


----------



## A8H

mets18 said:


> He is correct. As more and more channels are being put on each RF channel it by definition decreases the quality of the picture. CBS back in the day when it had no subchannels was much better than it is today.


Thanks for agreeing. Obviously some people are just blind. Ota is nowhere near what it used to be.


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## Joseph Rubin

A8H said:


> Thanks for agreeing. Obviously some people are just blind. Ota is nowhere near what it used to be.


I totally and completely disagree with that btw. When exactly did CBS look so much better? When it was a analog, SD signal? Ya ok sure! CBS is now in HD 1080i. But you think it used to look better??
Ok then
Sure. 
I guess I'm just one of the blind ones. Lol


----------



## hancox

ATSC3 should help, at least a little. The Hartford locals look significantly better, likely due to better compression. What will be more interesting is when a true lighthouse goes up.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> You're not going to see anything in 4K when ATSC 3.0 launches. Because of the shared situation the most you'll get is 1080p, but even that's just deinterlaced from the same 1080i/30 PBS network feeds in use now and not natively 1080p/60.
> 
> Also, more than just WNET, WLIW and WNJB will be participating as WNET's RF 12 signal alone can't host the ATSC 1.0 simulcasts for WLIW, Create, World and All Arts, while WNJB's New Jersey based RF 8 signal that drops off East of Queens and North of The Bronx won't pass the coverage area requirements to host any of the simulcasts.


I read through the PBS report on the planned changes. They did say that so plan to combine the 21's and 13's into the RF 12 channel. They say it is enough. They say it will mean 3 HD, and 3 SD channels, and they say it is doable. That is clearly what they said. At least that is the plan as of now. (3HD and 3Sd channels is possible, 21's already have 2 hd and 2 SD now)


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Joseph Rubin said:


> I totally and completely disagree with that btw. When exactly did CBS look so much better? When it was a analog, SD signal? Ya ok sure! CBS is now in HD 1080i. But you think it used to look better??
> Ok then
> Sure.
> I guess I'm just one of the blind ones. Lol


I think he's referring to when ATSC 1.0 first launched and each TV station only had their main channel broadcasting. Sure, the picture quality was reduced a bit after subchannels were added but I'd much rather have a good variety of channels to view than drool over less compression on a large screen. For what it's worth there probably would still be some compression artifacts if there was only one HD feed on each RF channel.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> I think he's referring to when ATSC 1.0 first launched and each TV station only had their main channel broadcasting. Sure, the picture quality was reduced a bit after subchannels were added but I'd much rather have a good variety of channels to view than drool over less compression on a large screen. For what it's worth there probably would still be some compression artifacts if there was only one HD feed on each RF channel.


I don't think it has anything to do with the added subs, because by making it a digital signal it used a lot less data. So it left unused all this data now. So why not add subs?! Most channels are still far from their data limits, so I don't see how that would make the picture quality worse in any way. If they maxed out the data feed, then maybe. But none do, so they don't.
Besides, like you said. I'd much rather have the more than 70 channels I have now. Then just the 12 or so we used to get. (And no. I don't believe the quality suffered because of the added channels at all. Maybe our TV sets just got a little better since. Lol)


----------



## KyL416

Joseph Rubin said:


> I read through the PBS report on the planned changes. They did say that so plan to combine the 21's and 13's into the RF 12 channel. They say it is enough. They say it will mean 3 HD, and 3 SD channels, and they say it is doable. That is clearly what they said. At least that is the plan as of now. (3HD and 3Sd channels is possible, 21's already have 2 hd and 2 SD now)


That PBS report isn't proof of anything until the filings are made, especially since they likely couldn't go on the record about plans involving 3rd party stations. Like in Albany when they launched what was originally written up as the ATSC 1.0 hosting arrangement didn't end up being the final plan filed with the FCC.

Plus that combo wouldn't be just 3 HD and 3 SD channels, WNET also hosts WNDT-CD and WMBQ-CD, so it would be 4 HD (Thirteen, WNDT, WLIW and All Arts) and 4 SD (PBS Kids, Create, World and WMBQ)

In other major markets Fox and Nexstar are proponents of ATSC 3.0, so I wouldn't be surprised if WNYW and WPIX join WLIW's lighthouse too in exchange for hosting some of WLIW's ATSC 1.0 simulcasts.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> That PBS report isn't proof of anything until the filings are made. Like in Albany when they launched what was originally said as the ATSC 1.0 hosting arrangement didn't end up being the plan.
> 
> Plus that combo wouldn't be just 3 HD and 3 SD channels, WNET also hosts WNDT-CD and WMBQ-CD, so it would be 4 HD (Thirteen, WNDT, WLIW and All Arts) and 4 SD (PBS Kids, Create, World and WMBQ)


Maybe those they have other plans for? Idk. I'm just saying what they said. That they plan to combine the 2, to make it 3 HD, and 3 SD channels total. So I guess that must mean they don't plan to include WNDT and WMBQ. Idk.
But I do know you're probably right that their plans right now and what will actually end up happening, is probably 2 very different things. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens


----------



## KyL416

Joseph Rubin said:


> So I guess that must mean they don't plan to include WNDT.


They can't. WNDT-CD and WMBQ-CD are licensed as a guests of WNET, they would have to surrender their very valuable Class A licenses to the FCC if they wanted to drop 14-1 and 46-1.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> They can't. WNDT-CD and WMBQ-CD are licensed as a guests of WNET, they would have to surrender their very valuable Class A licenses to the FCC if they wanted to drop 14-1 and 46-1.


So how then is their own report saying the plans are for 3 HD, and 3 SD. That doesn't make sense! Maybe they drop those 2 into the NJ station? Or that will still mean they surrender the class A?


----------



## KyL416

Antenna Man PA said:


> I think he's referring to when ATSC 1.0 first launched and each TV station only had their main channel broadcasting. Sure, the picture quality was reduced a bit after subchannels were added but I'd much rather have a good variety of channels to view than drool over less compression on a large screen


Encoder and stat mux technology has also improved a lot since the early days. Think of it like running software on a PC designed during the Windows 95 era vs running that same software on a PC designed in the Windows 10 era. The much newer CPUs that power those encoders are a lot better at compressing content in real time without losing visible details.

Like when CBS launched their 4th subchannel Fave TV, they also upgraded the encoders at their O&O stations in the process and there was a noticible improvement on the rest of their channels. The same with Ion after Scripps updated the encoders to allow their .2 channel to go HD and add Newsy as their .7 channel

Also 384 kbps for 5.1 and 192 kbs for stereo isn't anything new. That has been the standard since the start of ATSC 1.0.

NONE of those complaints are unique to NYC though. Like NBC, that has pretty much been the norm with most of their O&Os even before spectrum sharing started since most of them already hosted simulcasts of their Telemundo sister stations in markets where the Telemundo and NBC signals had different coverage areas. Like in NYC in the final years before spectrum sharing, WNBC was still on the Empire State Building and WNJU was on the new 1 World Trade Center. In other markets it's worse. Like in NYC it's just Univision's channels, but in other markets multiple networks that originate in 1080i are now downscaled to 720p because of spectrum sharing. NYC actually has it better than most markets because we have more full power allocations than most other markets, so all of the major networks are in HD and even some diginets like MeTV, Bounce and Story are in HD too, while many smaller markets are stuck with CW, Ion, MyNet, MeTV, Telemundo, UniMas and others as SD only.
And consider yourself lucky that you're not in a smaller market with Sinclair owned stations, where because of their ownership cap shenanigans they have been moving major network affiliations to subchannels of stations they outright own to stay under the ownership cap and keep those retrans rights in house instead of with stations owned by their shell companies. (i.e. in some markets you can have a station where 2 of the Big 4 affiliates are sharing, and the screen goes to crap when both of those networks are airing sports at the same time)




Joseph Rubin said:


> So how then is their own report saying the plans are for 3 HD, and 3 SD. That doesn't make sense!


I just read WNET's original release that the article referred to. Neither one of them say anything at all about 3 HD and 3 SD or even say who the ATSC 1.0 hosts will be. Plus releases like that are written by the marketing department and not the engineering department who would actually know what they're are talking about. So even that release has things that make no sense like in one line they say this:


> The WNET Group's WLIW21 will serve as the host station for ATSC 3.0 broadcasts for the three major PBS member stations in the New York metropolitan area: THIRTEEN, WLIW21 and NJ PBS.


Only for it to be later contradicted by this line where they say WLIW, Thirteen and PBS Kids will be on their signal and several SD commercial subchannels, which makes no sense at all since the norm is for the primary HD channels of the participating broadcasters to be carried on the NextGen Lighthouse, not their SD subchannels. And they specifically say "commercial", so that can't be referring to Create, World, FNX or All Arts:


> WLIW21 will carry high-definition programming from both WLIW21 and THIRTEEN, along with several standard-definition commercial sub-channels and the THIRTEEN PBS Kids service.


This part also isn't true, since technically WNYZ-LD's Franken FM signal on RF 6 was already on the air by the time this release came out:


> The WNET Group's NEXTGEN TV Broadcast Initiative will be the first to put New York City among the list of nearly 50 cities where NEXTGEN TV signals are now available


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> I just read WNET's original release that the article referred to. Neither one of them say anything at all about 3 HD and 3 SD or even say who the ATSC 1.0 hosts will be. Plus releases like that are written by the marketing department and not the engineering department who would actually know what they're are talking about. So even that release has things that make no sense like in one line they say this:
> 
> Only for it to be later contradicted by this line where they say WLIW, Thirteen and PBS Kids will be on their signal and several SD commercial subchannels, which makes no sense at all since the norm is for the primary HD channels of the participating broadcasters to be carried on the NextGen Lighthouse, not their SD subchannels. And they specifically say "commercial", so that can't be referring to Create, World, FNX or All Arts:
> 
> This part also isn't true, since technically WNYZ-LD's Franken FM signal on RF 6 was already on the air by the time this release came out:


So that just means that nothing that they said can be taken serious?
Btw my bad. I thought I saw it from the original report, cause I thought it was quoted. But maybe not. Not sure now. But here is the article I did see it.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Anyone watch Sventoonie? 🤣


----------



## mets18

Joseph Rubin said:


> I totally and completely disagree with that btw. When exactly did CBS look so much better? When it was a analog, SD signal? Ya ok sure! CBS is now in HD 1080i. But you think it used to look better??
> Ok then
> Sure.
> I guess I'm just one of the blind ones. Lol


Your suggestion that I was saying that analog was better is laughable. I did not say anything of the kind. And I do not think that anyone should give up on OTA TV. I was merely pointing out that there is a finite amount of bandwidth on each RF channel and that can be allocated a number of ways. One way is to allocate it all to a single HD stream. Everything else being equal the picture quality of that stream will be better than when there are 2 HD and 4 SD streams using the same finite amount of bandwidth. I understand the technology has been improved over the years but there are limits to ATSC 1.0. The station owners are willing to compromise the quality of their main signal to sell off bandwidth, as NBC did here in NYC to share with Telemundo, or to add subchannels to increase revenue, as all have done. But hey it's a free country and I wasn't the one complaining. Much of this crowding could potentially have been avoided by keeping the spectrum from channels 37 to 69 but that was sold to the wireless phone companies for mega $$$. Again, I'm not complaining about it and have not given up on OTA. I am just stating facts.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

mets18 said:


> Your suggestion that I was saying that analog was better is laughable. I did not say anything of the kind. And I do not think that anyone should give up on OTA TV. I was merely pointing out that there is a finite amount of bandwidth on each RF channel and that can be allocated a number of ways. One way is to allocate it all to a single HD stream. Everything else being equal the picture quality of that stream will be better than when there are 2 HD and 4 SD streams using the same finite amount of bandwidth. I understand the technology has been improved over the years but there are limits to ATSC 1.0. The station owners are willing to compromise the quality of their main signal to sell off bandwidth, as NBC did here in NYC to share with Telemundo, or to add subchannels to increase revenue, as all have done. But hey it's a free country and I wasn't the one complaining. Much of this crowding could potentially have been avoided by keeping the spectrum from channels 37 to 69 but that was sold to the wireless phone companies for mega $$$. Again, I'm not complaining about it and have not given up on OTA. I am just stating facts.


Again I disagree. I don't think it matters how allocate the bandwidth data, because when they became digital, they used a fraction of the data it did before as analog. So even if you broadcasted only one channel, that only meant that you used a tiny fraction of the bandwidth data, with the rest sitting idol! So adding subs became a no brainer. And as long as they don't max out the bandwidth data it wouldn't affect the quality. And no channels are even close to that. (In fact some channels are using up now less bandwidth data for multiple digital channels. Then they did before with 1 analog channel)
I do think it's mostly the equipment causing the issues mentioned. Cause you can see a visual difference in stations that recently updated.
So again, I don't see how adding subs to basically idol sitting data, would\should affect the quality.
Either way, I'm enjoying my free TV.


----------



## mets18

Joseph Rubin said:


> Again I disagree. I don't think it matters how allocate the bandwidth data, because when they became digital, they used a fraction of the data it did before as analog. So even if you broadcasted only one channel, that only meant that you used a tiny fraction of the bandwidth data, with the rest sitting idol! So adding subs became a no brainer. And as long as they don't max out the bandwidth data it wouldn't affect the quality. And no channels are even close to that. (In fact some channels are using up now less bandwidth data for multiple digital channels. Then they did before with 1 analog channel)
> I do think it's mostly the equipment causing the issues mentioned. Cause you can see a visual difference in stations that recently updated.
> So again, I don't see how adding subs to basically idol sitting data, would\should affect the quality.
> Either way, I'm enjoying my free TV.


Analog doesn't use data and a single HD digital stream can and used to use all of the bandwidth of an RF channel leaving none idle (not idol😀). Please take the loss on this one as you clearly don't know what you are talking about and I don't feel like explaining it to you again.


----------



## LenL

Mets18 while analog does not use data, it does use all the bandwidth of an RF channel. Digital can make better use of the bandwidth. I think that is what Rubin meant and hence he was correct.

Analog and Digital TV Differences

Since the DTV signal is made up of bits, the same bandwidth size that takes up a current analog TV signal, it can accommodate high definition (HDTV) images in digital form, and the extra space can be used to transmit:[/B]

One or more digital secondary (aka sub) channels in addition to the main channel.
Surround sound.
Multiple language audio.
Text services.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Mets18 while analog does not use data, it does use all the bandwidth of an RF channel. Digital can make better use of the bandwidth. I think that is what Rubin meant and hence he was correct!
> 
> *Analog and Digital TV Differences *
> 
> *Since the DTV signal is made up of bits, the same bandwidth size that takes up a current analog TV signal, it can accommodate high definition (HDTV) images in digital form, and the extra space can be used to transmit:*
> 
> One or more digital secondary (aka sub) channels in addition to the main channel.
> Surround sound.
> Multiple language audio.
> Text services.


I thank you!
Maybe now he'll have the time to "explain it to me". Lmao. Go screw yourself with your know-it-all attitude. I know what I know, and I'm willing to learn on things I don't. You sir made zero sense with anything you said. And somehow you trying to lecture me??. Lecture on! Let's do this! Cause while I'm no pro, and I might use a wrong term now and then (and misspell idle, hahahahaha), I know that your complaints made zero sense in technical reality. And that is even with how little I know. So ...... Lecture on fool


----------



## DrDon

Bickering ends NOW.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

DrDon said:


> Bickering ends NOW.


Yes Dr.!


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Yay! Story channel is live! Started at 6am now.
And there is finally now guide data for both Story and MeTV+ channels.

Hmmm.. that's funny. The Story channel is on both 33.7 and again on 37.1 (both are from RF 3)


----------



## hancox

Antenna Man PA said:


> I think he's referring to when ATSC 1.0 first launched and each TV station only had their main channel broadcasting. Sure, the picture quality was reduced a bit after subchannels were added but I'd much rather have a good variety of channels to view than drool over less compression on a large screen. For what it's worth there probably would still be some compression artifacts if there was only one HD feed on each RF channel.


When most of that "good variety" is either outright junk, or is available via multiple, better, means...

Keep in mind that, in NY, for a while, WCBS held out with no subchannels. We were spoiled.


----------



## ansky212

hancox said:


> When most of that "good variety" is either outright junk, or is available via multiple, better, means...
> 
> Keep in mind that, in NY, for a while, WCBS held out with no subchannels. We were spoiled.


I rarely watch subchannels and it's not because of picture quality. It's the mini-infomericals that get repeated in every block: Car Shield, Shriner's Hospital, and the life insurance one that are the worst. There is more advertising than actual programming. So I get your point. 20 years ago these subchannels would have been more relevant. But now all this same programming is available on various streaming platforms, in most cases better PQ, and many cases fewer (or no) commercials.


----------



## ansky212

Looks like the WEDW/WZME DTS app was approved today:






Licensing and Management System


Licensing and Management System




enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> I rarely watch subchannels and it's not because of picture quality. It's the mini-infomericals that get repeated in every block: Car Shield, Shriner's Hospital, and the life insurance one that are the worst. There is more advertising than actual programming. So I get your point. 20 years ago these subchannels would have been more relevant. But now all this same programming is available on various streaming platforms, in most cases better PQ, and many cases fewer (or no) commercials.


I kinda agree with you about the commercials. All subs are indeed horrible with commercials! They're boring and repetitive, and way way too much of it!
But all of these issues are now a none issue for me, because I always watch TV now with a DVR to time shift, so I always make sure I have plenty of room to skip the commercials. Otherwise I'd probably never watch em either.

That is great news about the application being approved finally! So that means we should be getting a stronger signal for the 42 channels??


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> That is great news about the application being approved finally! So that means we should be getting a stronger signal for the 42 channels??


WZME-43 and WEDW-49 (RF channel 21). Currently their only transmitter is in Trumbull, CT and I don't think it puts much signal into NYC except for maybe parts of northern Queens or the Bronx. Once the DTS is on the air with their new transmitter at ESB it should put a very strong signal across all of NYC and northern NJ.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> WZME-43 and WEDW-49 (RF channel 21). Currently their only transmitter is in Trumbull, CT and I don't think it puts much signal into NYC except for maybe parts of northern Queens or the Bronx.


So it's 43 channels. Not 42. My bad.
And ya, I live in Brooklyn, and I never could pick them up yet. So I'm excited to have this available soon. I think it was mentioned here before that it will have the new Story channel in HD, so that would be nice to have (I think I'd rather they made metv+ in HD, but I'll take what I can get)


----------



## Joseph Rubin

18.4 was added? Weird channels these 18's


----------



## marlowja

Anecdotally WLIW's sub channels seem to be much higher quality than they used to be - much less macroblocking. I wonder if they got a new encoder?


----------



## pabuwal

marlowja said:


> Anecdotally WLIW's sub channels seem to be much higher quality than they used to be - much less macroblocking. I wonder if they got a new encoder?


So far we have 21.4 and 31.2 as HD sub-channels. Anyone know of any others?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

pabuwal said:


> So far we have 21.4 and 31.2 as HD sub-channels. Anyone know of any others?


7.2 25.2


----------



## KyL416

pabuwal said:


> So far we have 21.4 and 31.2 as HD sub-channels. Anyone know of any others?


WNJB's RF 8 signal in NJ that's shared with WNJN has both 50.1/58.1 NJ PBS and 50.2/58.2 NHK World in HD
WFTY's RF 23 signal on Long Island has both 67.2 UniMas and 67.3 Univision in HD
WPXO-LD's RF 4 signal in NJ has both 34.1 America Teve and 34.2 Shop LC in HD

Technically these are also dual HD channels because of spectrum sharing:
4.1 NBC and 47.1 Telemundo are both on WNJU's RF 35 signal
13.1 PBS Thirteen and 14.1 FNX are both on WNET's RF 12 signal
9.1 My9 and 48.1 WRNN are both on WWOR's RF 25 signal
23.1 TBN Inspire and 54.1 TBN are both on WDVB-CD's RF 22 signal
41.1 Univision and 68.1 UniMas are both on WFUT's RF 26 signal



Joseph Rubin said:


> 7.2 25.2


It's actually 25.3 CUNY that's HD. 25.2 NYC Gov is SD.


----------



## rhrisch

Looks like NYC might be getting PBS with ATSC 3.0 in 2023. I hope inexpensive add on tuners will be available by then.


----------



## ansky212

rhrisch said:


> Looks like NYC might be getting PBS with ATSC 3.0 in 2023. I hope inexpensive add on tuners will be available by then.


So it sounds like NJN is part of this and would move to WTC with WLIW and WNET. I can't currently pick up WNJN from their current transmitter location so this would be an added benefit.

Tablo has a pre-release ATSC 3.0 tuner/DVR but it does not have in-home or out of home streaming, so you would need a separate device for every TV and the current price is $299.99. Hopefully that will come down over time.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> So it sounds like NJN is part of this and would move to WTC with WLIW and WNET. I can't currently pick up WNJN from their current transmitter location so this would be an added benefit.


Feels like we JUST finished this exact conversation. Look back a few posts


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> So it sounds like NJN is part of this and would move to WTC with WLIW and WNET. I can't currently pick up WNJN from their current transmitter location so this would be an added benefit.
> 
> Tablo has a pre-release ATSC 3.0 tuner/DVR but it does not have in-home or out of home streaming, so you would need a separate device for every TV and the current price is $299.99. Hopefully that will come down over time.


Worth mentioning the HdHomeRun Flex 4k. It's only $199 and 2 of the 4 tuners in it are 3.0 compatible


----------



## rhrisch

Joseph Rubin said:


> Worth mentioning the HdHomeRun Flex 4k. It's only $199 and 2 of the 4 tuners in it are 3.0 compatible


Since I don't DVR or have multiple TVs, I am interested in one that services a single TV for $50 or less. Maybe one of the PBS stations will offer one for free instead of a coffee mug on a fund drive.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

rhrisch said:


> Since I don't DVR or have multiple TVs, I am interested in one that services a single TV for $50 or less. Maybe one of the PBS stations will offer one for free instead of a coffee mug on a fund drive.


That we don't have just yet. Maybe by then


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> That we don't have just yet. Maybe by then


I don't expect that we are going to see many "cheap" ATSC 3.0 devices come into the market. The problem is OTA TV viewing is a niche audience. I have been using an Amazon Fire Recast as my tuner/DVR over the last few years. I read an article recently that the Recast has not been a big seller for Amazon and the product has been mostly neglected over the last few years. So it is highly unlikely that there will ever be an upgraded version of that device. Tivo seems to be getting out of the live TV/DVR game too, so the fewer products you have on the market means higher prices for consumers.


----------



## hancox

Joseph Rubin said:


> Feels like we JUST finished this exact conversation. Look back a few posts


The date given is new though, and incredibly disappointing. Why wait until end of year, when NY DMA is already lagging?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

hancox said:


> The date given is new though, and incredibly disappointing. Why wait until end of year, when NY DMA is already lagging?


I think it's all just estimates at this point, I don't think there isa set date for it


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> I don't expect that we are going to see many "cheap" ATSC 3.0 devices come into the market. The problem is OTA TV viewing is a niche audience. I have been using an Amazon Fire Recast as my tuner/DVR over the last few years. I read an article recently that the Recast has not been a big seller for Amazon and the product has been mostly neglected over the last few years. So it is highly unlikely that there will ever be an upgraded version of that device. Tivo seems to be getting out of the live TV/DVR game too, so the fewer products you have on the market means higher prices for consumers.


Funny, the Amazon Recast is the one DVR I haven't tried yet. Because it doesn't work with anything other than Fire TV, so it didn't make sense for me. But I am curious to see what Channel Master will have next. Cause if you're saying TiVo is done, then they can't be reselling those anymore. So I wonder what they'll have next. I really liked the previous Channel Master DVRs, till this last TiVo one I had gotten all of them, starting with the CM7400, then the DVR+, then the Stream+. They're all very under rated I think. They have no monthly fees, and very fair prices. So I hope they go back to that next. I also recently got the Tablo dual HDMI, I'd say with the monthly fees, it's as good as the older Channel Masters were. without paying the fee. It's well short of the Channel Masters.
But my daily driver that I use mostly now to watch TV, is my HDHR Flex 4k (with Kodi), but again that has a yearly DVR fee, I think it's $35 a year. It's a lot less than the Tablo monthly fees, but still not free. 
I just miss the way Channel Master worked, you buy a DVR box and that's it! That is all the money you'll pay to start watching n recording TV. But it seems like that isn't happening anymore. Now they all keep milking you one way or another. I hope someone keeps the Channel Master way going


----------



## hancox

Joseph Rubin said:


> I think it's all just estimates at this point, I don't think there isa set date for it


Right, but the timeline they give means that it’s not remotely close to being ready. 

Waiting months for a PBS-only lighthouse when lots of other markets have “big 4” up already is a major downer.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

hancox said:


> Right, but the timeline they give means that it’s not remotely close to being ready.
> 
> Waiting months for a PBS-only lighthouse when lots of other markets have “big 4” up already is a major downer.


Ya. I am really disappointed that the biggest market in the US somehow still has no 3.0! It's really disappointing


----------



## n2ubp

I am located in Middletown NY, 10940. Have there been any improvements in standalone OTA receiver chip sets that would make it worthwhile replacing an older receiver with a newer unit?


----------



## mrradiohead55

n2ubp said:


> I am located in Middletown NY, 10940. Have there been any improvements in standalone OTA receiver chip sets that would make it worthwhile replacing an older receiver with a newer unit?


Depends on what model it is and HOW OLD your current receiver is.

LG Electronics was on the leading edge of chipset development up until about four years ago, according to their lead engineer in charge of the research group that developed chipsets for TV and set top boxes. I talked to him over a few lengthy emails last year and he told me that LG had done as much as they _felt_ was possible for ATSC 1.0 tuners. They moved on to other tech development projects. All of the LG TVs have the latest generation chipset (6th) but I don't know what the other leading TV brands have been using in their TVs.

Jim


----------



## n2ubp

mrradiohead55 said:


> Depends on what model it is and HOW OLD your current receiver is.
> Jim


The receiver in question is a Mediasonic HW-150 PVR attached to a 2006 vintage Panasonic. So old the Panasonic only has a built in NTSC tuner along with HDMI, composite, and component inputs. Oldest setup in our home. Newest set is a Samsung I purchased one month ago. Also have a Samsung htb-h260f receiver in storage if that is a better choice.


----------



## unsmiley

ansky212 said:


> I don't expect that we are going to see many "cheap" ATSC 3.0 devices come into the market. The problem is OTA TV viewing is a niche audience. I have been using an Amazon Fire Recast as my tuner/DVR over the last few years. I read an article recently that the Recast has not been a big seller for Amazon and the product has been mostly neglected over the last few years. So it is highly unlikely that there will ever be an upgraded version of that device. Tivo seems to be getting out of the live TV/DVR game too, so the fewer products you have on the market means higher prices for consumers.


What's happening with Tivo? I haven't been following them but I have a brand new Tivo Roamio OTA with a lifetime subscription in the bottom of my closet that I have never gotten around to hook up. I hope I can still use it..


----------



## Joseph Rubin

unsmiley said:


> What's happening with Tivo? I haven't been following them but I have a brand new Tivo Roamio OTA with a lifetime subscription in the bottom of my closet that I have never gotten around to hook up. I hope I can still use it..


Your TiVo Roamio will work just fine. They will still support their products for years to come. But they won't be making any new ones


----------



## ansky212

Does anyone know if WNBC will be picking up Oxygen Network as a subchannel? It was already added to KNBC and several other NBC stations.


----------



## KyL416

Word is the "official" OTA launch is happening in early May. It seems they currently have engineers going around the country to add it, since every few days another NBC or Telemundo O&O gets it. Like a few weeks ago LA, San Francisco, Hartford, Houston and Monterey got it; last week Chicago, Dallas, DC, Richmond, Phoenix and San Diego got it; and so far this week Philly, Denver and Springfield MA got it. Tucson also recently got it.

If it's like what happened with LX, WNBC will probably be one of the last ones to get it.

They also still need to add it to the Telemundo stations in Boston, Sacramento, Tampa and some other cities. The stations in Providence, Orlando, Miami, Vegas, Fresno, Fort Myers, San Antonio, El Paso, Harlingen, Salt Lake City and New Mexico are out of range of the live bandscans, so I don't know if they added it yet.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> Word is the "official" OTA launch is happening in early May. It seems they currently have engineers going around the country to add it, since every few days another NBC or Telemundo O&O gets it. Like a few weeks ago LA, San Francisco, Hartford, Houston and Monterey got it; last week Chicago, Dallas, DC, Richmond, Phoenix and San Diego got it; and so far this week Philly, Denver and Springfield MA got it. Tucson also recently got it.
> 
> If it's like what happened with LX, WNBC will probably be one of the last ones to get it.
> 
> They also still need to add it to the Telemundo stations in Boston, Sacramento, Tampa and some other cities. The stations in Providence, Orlando, Miami, Vegas, Fresno, Fort Myers, San Antonio, El Paso, Harlingen, Salt Lake City and New Mexico are out of range of the live bandscans, so I don't know if they added it yet.


Thanks for the info. I did some rescans this week and nothing has lit up yet on WNBC.


----------



## zeebre12

Is this the first proper pay TV channel that is also going OTA? Wonder is this a sign that NBC may drop it as a pay TV channel altogether?


----------



## mrradiohead55

KyL416 said:


> Word is the "official" OTA launch is happening in early May. It seems they currently have engineers going around the country to add it, since every few days another NBC or Telemundo O&O gets it. Like a few weeks ago LA, San Francisco, Hartford, Houston and Monterey got it; last week Chicago, Dallas, DC, Richmond, Phoenix and San Diego got it; and so far this week Philly, Denver and Springfield MA got it. Tucson also recently got it.
> 
> If it's like what happened with LX, WNBC will probably be one of the last ones to get it.
> 
> They also still need to add it to the Telemundo stations in Boston, Sacramento, Tampa and some other cities. The stations in Providence, Orlando, Miami, Vegas, Fresno, Fort Myers, San Antonio, El Paso, Harlingen, Salt Lake City and New Mexico are out of range of the live bandscans, so I don't know if they added it yet.


I received an email this afternoon from the NBCUniversal Director of Engineering. He said there are program contracts with the cable TV channel Oxygen, which are good to the end of April. A press release regarding a complete list of affiliate stations (NBCU and NBC affiliates that can pick it up) for the Oxygen True Crime over the air channel will become available sometime the first week in May and not before, due to the contracts in place. Just a personal feeling - I think some at NBC aren't happy that Oxygen started popping up on PSIP in various markets before the official launch (aka keep the channel hidden in the transport stream programming).

Jim


----------



## zeebre12

mrradiohead55 said:


> I received an email this afternoon from the NBCUniversal Director of Engineering. He said there are program contracts with the cable TV channel Oxygen, which are good to the end of April. A press release regarding a complete list of affiliate stations (NBCU and NBC affiliates that can pick it up) for the Oxygen True Crime over the air channel will become available sometime the first week in May and not before, due to the contracts in place. Just a personal feeling - I think some at NBC aren't happy that Oxygen started popping up on PSIP in various markets before the official launch (aka keep the channel hidden in the transport stream programming).
> 
> Jim


Wonder why they didn't just launch a different true crime OTA channel with a different name showing older series? I presume both OTA and cable Oxygen will be the same so?


----------



## KyL416

NBCU recently renewed most of their major contracts, so its future OTA launch was likely included as part of the terms.

I doubt they would kill it off as a cable/sat channel next month or anytime in the near future as the public notices from the various cable and telco providers would have already been issued in the states that require advanced notice. Oxygen is a very popular channel and they don't have O&Os in every market across the country. i.e. major markets like Atlanta, Seattle, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Portland, Charlotte, St. Louis, Raleigh, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh don't have a NBC or Telemundo O&O so they won't have Oxygen OTA anytime soon. Plus a lot of the newer Telemundo O&Os that NBCU recently acquired are only LPTV signals that don't have full market coverage including Tampa, Orlando, Sacramento, Providence, Richmond and Springfield.

Most of the non-O&O markets are already maxed out for diginet space either because of spectrum sharing, groupwide commitments their owners made, or limited avaibility of standalone allotments so lesser networks like CW, MyNet, MeTV, Ion, Univision, Telemundo, UniMas, etc are only available as subchannels in those smaller DMAs. i.e. most of the Nexstar NBC affiliates have subchannel carriage deals that won't expire for several years, while the Sinclair ones prefer their own in house diginets.


----------



## ansky212

I'm kind of surprised NBCU chose to go OTA with Oxygen rather than integrating it into Peacock, where it seems they would make more money.


----------



## LenL

https://www.nexttv.com/news/new-yorks-one-world-trade-center-readied-for-noncom-nextgen-tv-broadcasts


----------



## marlowja

ansky212 said:


> I'm kind of surprised NBCU chose to go OTA with Oxygen rather than integrating it into Peacock, where it seems they would make more money.


I'm also surprised LX is still plodding along - it would be great if they could merge LX with NBC News Now, which wouldn't be subject to the same cable carriage limitations like MSNBC. It would be a good addition to WNBC and all the other O&Os. 

I am concerned though that the addition of Oxygen is going to further reduce WNBC 4.1 picture quality, which is already pretty poor with the WNJU RF sharing. Correct me if I'm wrong but the current RF structure would be:


*4.1 *NBC (1080i)
*4.2* CoziTV (480i)
*4.3 *LX (480i)
*4.4* (?) Oxygen??
*47.1* Telemundo (1080i)
*47.2* Telexitos (480i)


----------



## KyL416

In Philly it didn't really affect NBC or Telemundo's bandwidth on WCAU, but Cozi, LX and Telexitos took a noticible hit. NBC also uses dynamic statmuxing on their encoders, so the bandwidth allocation isn't a fixed value.

LX targets a different type of audience than NBC News Now and their newscasts, bonus local newscasts in some cities, and live event programming would conflict with NBC News Now's daily schedule of rolling news coverage. NBC News Now also occasionally airs raw live footage that might cause some FCC issues.


----------



## zeebre12

KyL416 said:


> In Philly it didn't really affect NBC or Telemundo's bandwidth on WCAU, but Cozi, LX and Telexitos took a noticible hit. NBC also uses dynamic statmuxing on their encoders, so the bandwidth allocation isn't a fixed value.
> 
> LX targets a different type of audience than NBC News Now and their newscasts, bonus local newscasts in some cities, and live event programming would conflict with NBC News Now's daily schedule of rolling news coverage. NBC News Now also occasionally airs raw live footage that might cause some FCC issues.


But LX is doing very poorly and could that audience not be served with some segment on NBC News Now. Find it strange that NBC/ABC/CBS have never launched their streaming news channels as subchannels? Is it that they are not allowed to?


----------



## KyL416

Your definition of "poorly" isn't the same as NBCU's bean counter's definition. OTA wise it's only on their O&Os and HC2 LPTV channels, and only has limited cable carriage in the NBC O&O DMAs, so of course they're not expecting it to have the same ratings as Cozi, Telexitos or even ABC's Localish. But LX also has carriage on many free streaming OTT providers which is where the real money is made since they can insert dynamic targetted ads.


ABC News Live is the succesor to the old ABC News Now channel which originally started out OTA for the 2004 elections. It became cable and broadband only, then its cable distribution was eventually given to their now defunct joint venture with Univision Fusion, while the streaming broadband channel continued and eventually rebranded into what is now ABC News Live.

CBSN Dallas was temporarily carried for few months as filler on KTXA after they lost MeTV to KAZD after Weigel acquired it, but its slot was given to QVC last year.

Like mentioned, one big issue is that many of the streaming news channels air live unedited and uncensored raw news footage which would cause potential FCC problems if an OTA signal carried it.


----------



## zeebre12

KyL416 said:


> Your definition of "poorly" isn't the same as NBCU's bean counter's definition. OTA wise it's only on their O&Os and HC2 LPTV channels, and only has limited cable carriage in the NBC O&O DMAs, so of course they're not expecting it to have the same ratings as Cozi, Telexitos or even ABC's Localish. But LX also has carriage on many free streaming OTT providers which is where the real money is made since they can insert dynamic targetted ads.
> 
> 
> ABC News Live is the succesor to the old ABC News Now channel which originally started out OTA for the 2004 elections. It became cable and broadband only, then its cable distribution was eventually given to their now defunct joint venture with Univision Fusion, while the streaming broadband channel continued and eventually rebranded into what is now ABC News Live.
> 
> CBSN Dallas was temporarily carried for few months as filler on KTXA after they lost MeTV to KAZD after Weigel acquired it, but its slot was given to QVC last year.
> 
> Like mentioned, one big issue is that many of the streaming news channels air live unedited and uncensored raw news footage which would cause potential FCC problems if an OTA signal carried it.


Would having ABC News Live/NBC News Now as subchannels not the the same thing as Newsy as a subchannel?


----------



## KyL416

Newsy doesn't show live unedited raw footage during breaking news coverage, and much of the time their rolling headlines are pretaped.


----------



## ughAudio

KyL416 said:


> Newsy doesn't show live unedited raw footage during breaking news coverage, and much of the time their rolling headlines are pretaped.


Yeah, I noticed this sorta' carousel of rotating pre-taped ESPECIALLY on the weekends.


----------



## ughAudio

Took it off the mount at home and brought our Televes to a friend's apartment move-out from Manhattan to test with 35ft of RG6 ... aimed out a fourth-floor window downtown to WTC direction and received the PSIP for WPHL (RF17 Phila).

Though antenna is rated for RF7 and above, watched LostInSpace on MeTV RF3 (picked up I guess due to the RG6 length and broadcast antenna proximity?)

The cardboard box support worked well. Paper towels are essential! 

I think Samsung tuners are VERY good.


----------



## KyL416

ughAudio said:


> aimed out a fourth-floor window downtown to WTC direction and received the PSIP for WPHL (RF17 Phila).


That's likely because there's currently a storm system approaching the eastern PA/western NJ area, creating a path for the signals from Eastern PA to reach the NYC area.

In the past few hours the Poughkeepsie and Mount Bethel live bandscans have been picking up WPHL, along with some other PA stations like WACP, WBPH, WHYY, WNEP, WCAU, KYW and WPSG.


----------



## ughAudio

KyL416 said:


> That's likely because there's currently a storm system approaching the eastern PA/western NJ area, creating a path for the signals from Eastern PA to reach the NYC area.


Thank you KyL416. Prob'ly contributes to explaining, in the reverse, some of the more distant signals not received since last FALL (e.g, WJLP-RF3 into Philly from NYC), broken antenna and all....


----------



## Joseph Rubin

So they added another QVC channel! On 31-8.
I can't believe anyone still watches those. With the Internet these days, it's obsolete. I'd think so anyway


----------



## KyL416

The shopping channels get carriage by paying commission on sales via the unique phone number overlayed on screen, if no one was watching and they weren't making money, they wouldn't be carried in nearly every DMA, and multiple major broadcasting groups like ABC, CBS, Nexstar, Scripps, Tegna etc wouldn't have signed affiliation deals with them over the past few years.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> The shopping channels get carriage by paying commission on sales via the unique phone number overlayed on screen, if no one was watching and they weren't making money, they wouldn't be carried in nearly every DMA via the deals they signed with major broadcasting groups over the past few years.


I'm amazed that they still seem to be so popular. Probably older ladies that can't use the Internet? Idk


----------



## KyL416

In another city's thread one of the station's engineers say they get a lot more viewer complaints when something happens to their HSN and QVC feeds than they do for their other networks like Cozi, MeTV or Antenna TV.


----------



## SnellKrell

Joseph Rubin said:


> I'm amazed that they still seem to be so popular. Probably older ladies that can't use the Internet? Idk


I'm not a little old lady and I know how to deal with the internet very well!!!

Recently, I saved more than 25% when I bought a deluxe grill/air fryer on QVC! No site that I could find
on the internet came close to the price.

So, don't knock it till you try it!!!!!


----------



## Joseph Rubin

SnellKrell said:


> I'm not a little old lady and I know how to deal with the internet very well!!!
> 
> Recently, I saved more than 25% when I bought a deluxe grill/air fryer on QVC! No site that I could find
> on the internet came close to the price.
> 
> So, don't knock it till you try it!!!!!


True enough. I wasn't knocking it though. I just didn't understand it. Big difference


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> In another city's thread one of the station's engineers say they get a lot more viewer complaints when something happens to their HSN and QVC feeds than they do for their other networks like Cozi, MeTV or Antenna TV.


Shocking! But the facts do support it. I mean I must have like 3 or 4 QVC channels, plus a few HSN. So they must be there for a reason. I just thought it would be a outdated method by now. But it seems to still be going as strong as ever


----------



## SnellKrell

As a testament to home shopping channels' popularity and profitability, that's why cable systems
include them in their basic packages!


----------



## Joseph Rubin

.


----------



## SnellKrell

Has anyone else noticed that the Live Bandscan tuner from Richmond Hill, Queens
is no longer operating on RabbitEars?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Anyone know any info about when the Oxygen channel is coming? If it is?


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> Anyone know any info about when the Oxygen channel is coming? If it is?


I did a rescan this morning and it's not showing up yet. I'm also curious how long it will take WZME to build out their ESB site.


----------



## Mediterraneo

Pretty cool to see Philly's CW (WPSG) in Queens tonight. Took some screenshots. 
Update: Also receiving WWSI-TV (Telemundo 62) and WCAU (NBC 10), though both have too weak of a signal for playback.


----------



## trailblazer

Mediterraneo said:


> Pretty cool to see Philly's CW (WPSG) in Queens tonight. Took some screenshots.
> Update: Also receiving WWSI-TV (Telemundo 62) and WCAU (NBC 10), though both have too weak of a signal for playback.
> View attachment 3285544
> View attachment 3285545
> View attachment 3285546
> View attachment 3285547


Amazing that you got this station all the way in Queens. I am in NJ and 57 was pixelating last night on me and all Philly signals were at weaker levels than normal.


----------



## SnellKrell

Just noticed that the Richmond Hill, Queens Live Bandscan tuner is back on-line via RabbitEars.

Welcome back, you've been missed!


----------



## darkegg

SnellKrell said:


> Just noticed that the Richmond Hill, Queens Live Bandscan tuner is back on-line via RabbitEars.
> 
> Welcome back, you've been missed!


Sorry about that. It seems something is wrong with my HDHomerun device or firmware. It gets into a state where the band scanner can't connect to it until I reboot the device. I can watch all the channels but can't do any scans. I'll try to set up an alert.


----------



## SnellKrell

darkegg said:


> Sorry about that. It seems something is wrong with my HDHomerun device or firmware. It gets into a state where the band scanner can't connect to it until I reboot the device. I can watch all the channels but can't do any scans. I'll try to set up an alert.


Stll holding! 

Maybe Trip has a thought.


----------



## Trip in VA

I have mine set to reboot overnight each night.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> I have mine set to reboot overnight each night.
> 
> - Trip


Are you rebooting to scan for new channels? I had read somewhere that the HD Homerun automatically does a scan every 3 days but as far as I can tell there is no way to confirm this unless it's in the log somewhere. I usually run a scan through the app every couple days. Still waiting to see when WZME will show up.


----------



## KyL416

When it's running the live bandscan is constantly cycling through all the RF numbers for channels and reporting the results to RabbitEars in real time. i.e. here you can see the most recent time that WJLP's RF 3 signal signal was decoded by a participating tuner, including tuners 1000+ miles away in Nebraska and Missouri when E-Skip activity was high last week:
https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php...lsign=WJLP&sort=date&hours=all&tzone=ET&unit=


----------



## ansky212

I did a scan on my HD Homerun today and there are 2 channels showing up as 5000 Unknown and 5001 Unknown. I'm not able to tune to them. Any idea what these might be? Maybe testing going on?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> I did a scan on my HD Homerun today and there are 2 channels showing up as 5000 Unknown and 5001 Unknown. I'm not able to tune to them. Any idea what these might be? Maybe testing going on?


I always got those when I first bought my HDHR last summer. They also didn't work. So I just x them so they didn't show up in the guide


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> I always got those when I first bought my HDHR last summer. They also didn't work. So I just x them so they didn't show up in the guide


It's odd because I do scans often and they are just showing up for the first time today. They don't show up in my guide and there is no way to tune to them.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> It's odd because I do scans often and they are just showing up for the first time today.


I used to get them when I first bought it. Back then someone mentioned that it might be place holders for 3.0 channels. Idk. Don't quote me on it.
But the last few months when I did searches, they were gone. I guess now they're back? I'll try a research on mine soon. I'll let you know if I get em now too.


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> I used to get them when I first bought it. Back then someone mentioned that it might be place holders for 3.0 channels. Idk. Don't quote me on it.
> But the last few months when I did searches, they were gone. I guess now they're back? I'll try a research on mine soon. I'll let you know if I get em now too.


I just did another scan and now they are gone. I checked the system log and those channels are showing 581MHz which is RF channel 32 (WLIW). Not sure what that was about.


----------



## marlowja

IIRC WLIW will be the first ATSC 3.0 station later this year.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> I just did another scan and now they are gone. I checked the system log and those channels are showing 581MHz which is RF channel 32 (WLIW). Not sure what that was about.


Ya. Like the last person said. I also thought this. 21 is part of the pbs stations that are supposedly gonna be the first to switch over to 3.0 
So I think it's safe to say these are indeed place holders for that?


----------



## pabuwal

Any word on a WPIX power increase? It becomes very difficult to receive come late Spring.


----------



## KyL416

WPIX already completed their power increase from 7.5 kW to 26 kW last October.

I wouldn't expect them to file for any further increases, since the only reason why they were able to get an increase that big is because Nexstar owns all the surrounding RF 10 (WTNH New Haven) and RF 11 (WBRE Wilkes Barre and WWLP Springfield) stations that had to agree to accept additional interference.

I also doubt they'll try to move to 1WTC since as we saw during the repack, they're horrible about giving their current tenants their promised facilities. Like how WNYW had to switch to the lower antenna at the last minute, and it's also the main reason why WKOB-LD's RF 13 facility that they will be sharing with WASA-LD is _still_ facing delays that they detailed in their latest tolling request.


----------



## DigitalfreakNYC

Anyone else have problems with ABC 7? It's the only one of the main channels that I sometimes have problems with.


----------



## LenL

No problems from Randolph NJ 30 miles west of the broadcast. If you told us where you are located and what equipment you are using we might be able to help you.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

I'm in Brooklyn, I checked last night a few minutes. It looked fine. I'm checking it right now again, GMA is playing perfectly. No flicker.
I tuned my HDHR tuner to 7.1 so I can see the exact strength and quality. I never did get this channel at a perfect 100. But picture is perfect.
So HDHR tuner is showing 78% strength 80% quality


----------



## ansky212

DigitalfreakNYC said:


> Anyone else have problems with ABC 7? It's the only one of the main channels that I sometimes have problems with.


WABC is on VHF so it's possible you are using an antenna that is not suitable for VHF broadcasts. I'm 10 miles west of the city and I'm getting them at 100% signal strength.


----------



## ansky212

It looks like WZME has filed yet another modification for their DTS. It's not really clear what changed this time.





Licensing and Management System


Licensing and Management System




enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov


----------



## KyL416

WEDW's DTS site 1 (Trumbull) will be directional since DTS site 2 (ESB) will now be at the top of the spire instead of two seperate side mounted sites. That was granted back in March.

The most recent modification filing from 3 days ago was just to adjust the height of radiation at the ESB site.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> WEDW's DTS site 1 (Trumbull) will be directional since DTS site 2 (ESB) will now be at the top of the spire instead of two seperate side mounted sites. That was granted back in May.
> 
> The most recent modfication filing from 3 days ago was just to adjust the height of radiation at the ESB site.


Thanks for the clarification. So is this a "quick" approval or is this another modification that is going to take 3 months to review like the last one?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> WEDW's DTS site 1 (Trumbull) will be directional since DTS site 2 (ESB) will now be at the top of the spire instead of two seperate side mounted sites. That was granted back in May.
> 
> The most recent modfication filing from 3 days ago was just to adjust the height of radiation at the ESB site.


You're like a well of info! Thanks so much for all the info you give us here.


----------



## joblo

KyL416 said:


> The most recent modfication filing from 3 days ago was just to adjust the height of radiation at the ESB site.


Higher or lower? Sustantive or error correction?


----------



## KyL416

Lower and error correction:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076ff381403c6f01814e1159f213f4


----------



## DigitalfreakNYC

LenL said:


> No problems from Randolph NJ 30 miles west of the broadcast. If you told us where you are located and what equipment you are using we might be able to help you.


Astoria, Queens. Just a generic OTA antenna. No problems with any other channels, like I said. So strange.


----------



## LenL

If you have to use an indoor antenna you might want to check out Antenna mans top picks! The antenna you are using is not a good one for VHF (7.1, 11.1, 13.1 and NJPBS 8.1) even though you have had some success! Here is just a sample of indoor antennas reviewed:









Amazon.com: RCA Amplified Indoor HDTV Antenna with SmartBoost Technology, NextGen TV, Compatible to Deliver Stunning 4K Ultra HD Picture and Quality Sound, 6’ Built-In Coax Cable : Electronics


Buy RCA Amplified Indoor HDTV Antenna with SmartBoost Technology, NextGen TV, Compatible to Deliver Stunning 4K Ultra HD Picture and Quality Sound, 6’ Built-In Coax Cable: TV Antennas - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## Brian in CT

DigitalfreakNYC said:


> Just a generic OTA antenna. No problems with any other channels, like I said. So strange.


Like LenL said, the antenna you're using is not geared for VHF. You're getting some reception because you're so close to the ESB. Also, be aware that certain building materials can affect reception. If your current indoor antenna is not near a Manhattan facing window, then I'd first try that to see if WABC comes in better.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Is anyone else getting a weak signal for Channel 25?
I never really watched it a lot before. But it was always playing fine when I'd scroll through it. But this weekend I was either not getting it at all at times, or very noisy when it did play.
Anyone else notice anything?

I'm thinking to have my roof top antenna re pointed, to instead of having it pointed at downtown Manhatten like it is now (pointed at 1WTC), maybe turn it just a bit towards midtown. My thinking is that maybe I'll get a little better signals from both The ESB, and 4 Times Square. (My main reason to do this is, because of Channel 68. I love the True Crimes channel, but the signal is a little buggy at times, so I'm thinking pointing it more towards ESB might help?)


----------



## Brian in CT

Joseph Rubin said:


> I'm thinking to have my roof top antenna re pointed, to instead of having it pointed at downtown Manhatten like it is now (pointed at 1WTC), maybe turn it just a bit towards midtown. My thinking is that maybe I'll get a little better signals from both The ESB, and 4 Times Square. (My main reason to do this is, because of Channel 68. I love the True Crimes channel, but the signal is a little buggy at times, so I'm thinking pointing it more towards ESB might help?)


Hmmm. How many degrees are the difference between 1WTC and ESB at your location? If it's just a few degrees, I can't see that making much difference. Just be aware that it's summer tropo season. There was some atmospheric enhancement the last few nights that would mess with local signals. That might have caused your problem. I'd see if the "buggy" reception continues for an extended period of time before getting on the roof.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Brian in CT said:


> Hmmm. How many degrees are the difference between 1WTC and ESB at your location? If it's just a few degrees, I can't see that making much difference. Just be aware that it's summer tropo season. There was some atmospheric enhancement the last few nights that would mess with local signals. That might have caused your problem. I'd see if the "buggy" reception continues for an extended period of time before getting on the roof.


True. I think it would be only a couple of degrees north. But I think it would improve a little at least the ESB channels. Those have always been just good enough, with issues.. but mostly it's watchable, But not perfect. Maybe my antenna is very directional? (Winegard HD7000r) idk.
I'll see how it goes I guess.
I'll update here if I do turn it a little, how the results were.


----------



## joblo

Joseph Rubin said:


> Maybe my antenna is very directional? (Winegard HD7000r)


Nope, definitely not.

From Winegard HD7000R VHF / UHF HDTV Antenna Terrestrial Digital 10 Element Yagi Style Off-Air Local HD T (summitsource.com):



> ChannelCh 2Ch 4CH 6Ch 7Ch 9CH 11Ch 13Ch 14Ch 32Ch 50Ch 69dB Gain Over Reference Dipole0.21.80.5555.34.13.65.166Beam Width at 1/2 Power Points8382785166483375544043Front to Back Ratio1dB1.5dB3dB8.5dB12dB12.5dB4.5dB7dB10.5dB14dB11dB


----------



## hancox

Figured i would ask here first...

I may be looking to unload my "classic" CM4228 antenna. This is the old style, not the "HD" one that's currently for sale. Anyone in the market? I actually have the original shipping box, but hoping to avoid that.

PM me if interested.


----------



## LenL

Funny you posted that as I have 2 CM4228s and I am only using one. I put my spare on Craigslist North Jersey about a week ago. I suggest you give it a try. I also put it on Nextdoor and had someone about 7 miles to my west wanting to buy it. I talked him out of it because his location for using the CM4228 was not all that good. If you are 30 miles or closer to NY broadcasters it is a great UHF antenna and a decent VHF antenna.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Well ........ I ended up making the climb up to the roof. I guess I also just wanted to check up on the antenna itself. Cause I have no visual of it from the ground. So I figured I'll check up on it, and maybe turn it a little north towards midtown.
But like I was told here, it really didn't make much of a difference. I even raised it on a pole a couple of feet higher than before and turned it a few degrees north. But the channels I had issues with are still just about the same. Didn't really improve it at all.
So I guess it's as good as it can be.
I'm glad to see at least that the antenna held up through the winter beautifully. Way to go Winegard!
And I guess having it now a couple of feet higher can only make things a little better


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Depending on how long the cable is from the antenna to the tuner you may improve your reception with a preamp. One part goes up at the antenna. The other part is a power inserter that will send power through the coax cable to amplify the signals close to the antenna. The Televes preamps have good filtering and automatic gain control.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> Depending on how long the cable is from the antenna to the tuner you may improve your reception with a preamp. One part goes up at the antenna. The other part is a power inserter that will send power through the coax cable to amplify the signals close to the antenna. The Televes preamps have good filtering and automatic gain control.


Good info. Thanks.
And yes I was considering a pre amp, but I don't think my situation would improve much. Cable run isn't crazy long. And I don't think I lose much.
I even split my signal with a 4 way splitter, and it doesn't affect it badly at all. I'd get the exact same results if I connect it direct to my TV, or to the 4 way splitter, I'd notice zero loss. I even have a Channel Master powered 4 way splitter, but I'm not using it cause it improved nothing at all. Cause it's just as good with the regular splitter. So my point being that I don't think I'm losing much down the run.
But idk, maybe a pre amp will be by next thing to try. It might improve it some.
But honestly, as long as my MeTv is now playing perfectly (signal is 100%) cause I have the Vhf lo elements... So I'm good.


----------



## LenL

I'm not seeing the mast and antenna properly grounded according to code either.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> I'm not seeing the mast and antenna properly grounded according to code either.


Ya I know. I'm aware of that


----------



## LenL

__





Grounding Rooftop Antenna Installations






comm-omni.com




*Grounding Rooftop Installations
Lightning Protection Information*
*







*​*Summary*
Special considerations when the equipment is far away from the "earth body" ground.
* 
Rooftop Sites*
In most urban high-rise sites, a low inductance earth ground connection is impossible to achieve. A connection to the steel structure of the building is the preferred method


----------



## ansky212

Does anyone know if there are still plans to bring Oxygen network to WNBC? I was really looking forward to this one but there is still nothing showing up.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> Does anyone know if there are still plans to bring Oxygen network to WNBC? I was really looking forward to this one but there is still nothing showing up.


They say it's coming, to channel 4.4 
But so far there is no evidence of a place holder or anything.
Let's hope


----------



## KyL416

They're still slowly rolling it out, another NBCU O&O in Texas got it yesterday.


----------



## kirk28

ansky212 said:


> Does anyone know if there are still plans to bring Oxygen network to WNBC? I was really looking forward to this one but there is still nothing showing up.


NBC in Philly has it. I'm picking it up in Morris County (NJ) on 10.4.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

I'm hoping to maybe get a used Tablo Quad. I hope I get it.
I never really had a Tablo, cause I never cared for network tuners, but now I have the HdHomeRun Flex 4K, and love it... And I got the Tablo dual HDMI, almost as soon as it came out. what this tought me is, that first, I do like network tuners, and second that Tablo is a ok DVR, but the one I have I don't really like. Cause it only has 2 tuners, and very limited streaming options. So I figured it's time to just get a real Tablo.
So I bid on one on eBay, hopefully I win it. If I do I'll try to sell my Tablo dual HDMI. (Anyone want it? Almost new).


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> I'm hoping to maybe get a used Tablo Quad. I hope I get it.
> I never really had a Tablo, cause I never cared for network tuners, but now I have the HdHomeRun Flex, and love it... And I got the Tablo dual HDMI. what this tought me is, that first, I do like network tuners, and second that Tablo is a ok DVR, but the one I have I don't really like. Cause it only has 2 tuners, and very limited streaming options. So I figured it's time to just get a real Tablo.
> So I bid on one on eBay, hopefully I win it. If I do I'll try to sell my Tablo dual HDMI. (Anyone want it? Almost new).


The current Tablo models do not support ATSC 3.0 so you might want to wait until their new model comes out (supposedly later this year). Then you'll be prepared for future ATSC 3.0 broadcasts in our area. I have the HD Homerun Flex 4K and the $35 DVR service works pretty well.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> The current Tablo models do not support ATSC 3.0 so you might want to wait until their new model comes out (supposedly later this year). Then you'll be prepared for future ATSC 3.0 broadcasts in our area.


That is good advice. I appreciate it. And I was considering that too. 
But after looking into it, and reading that they delayed shipping pre orders. I figured that realistically both the format and the device are still ahead of their time for now (for us in NYC at least).
But this is however still the reason I didn't, and wouldn't pay too much for a Tablo currently. But for the price I hope to get it for, I figured it's worth it. Especially if I can then get rid of my Dual HDMI, it might end up not costing me anything.
And when 3.0 does finally come.... I'll have my HdHomeRun Flex 4K, 2 3.0 tuners.


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> That is good advice. I appreciate it. And I was considering that too.
> But after looking into it, and reading that they delayed shipping pre orders. I figured that realistically both the format and the device are still ahead of their time for now (for us in NYC at least).
> But this is however still the reason I didn't, and wouldn't pay too much for a Tablo currently. But for the price I hope to get it for, I figured it's worth it. Especially if I can then get rid of my Dual HDMI, it might end up not costing me anything.
> And when 3.0 does finally come.... I'll have my HdHomeRun Flex 4K, 2 3.0 tuners.


Since you already have the Flex 4K, have you tried the HDHR DVR service? For $35 annually it works pretty well.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> Since you already have the Flex 4K, have you tried the HDHR DVR service? For $35 annually it works pretty well.


I did. Or rather I do. I'm subscribed to that (actually just renewed the yearly payment. So been exactly 1 year now since I got it) and I also like it, a lot. 
I use it now mostly for watching TV and record shows. (I use it with Kodi, it's amazing).
There is just a couple of small things that I prefer about Tablo, The 2 that come to mind is, 1 the pop-up thumbnail screens when scrolling, (Netflix style), 2 the DVR feature to select how many episodes to keep. Surprisingly this simple little feature isn't available on any of my other DVRs, not The DVR+, or Stream+, or HdHomeRun. So with all those I have to manually go in and manage the storage, by deleting stuff I don't need. Or I'd run out of storage room. The Tablo is the only one that I can set to only keep the last like 3 episodes. 
But there is plenty I don't like about the Tablo too. (Like the subscription price being like double HDHR) Overall I think I prefer the HdHomeRun over Tablo. Maybe the Tablo Quad will change my mind.. I doubt it.


----------



## LenL

Rubin,

NY is getting ATSC3.0 on WLIW 21.1 in a scant 6 months or so...... why not invest for the future?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Rubin,
> 
> NY is getting ATSC3.0 on WLIW 21.1 in a scant 6 months or so...... why not invest for the future?


I'm ready for it. I have the HDHR Flex 4k.
I just doubt it will be in 6 months. I hope I'm wrong


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Joseph Rubin said:


> I just doubt it will be in 6 months. I hope I'm wrong


I doubt it will be 6 months either. They've been saying that ATSC 3.0 is coming to New York "later this year" for at least three or four years.


----------



## ansky212

Antenna Man PA said:


> I doubt it will be 6 months either. They've been saying that ATSC 3.0 is coming to New York "later this year" for at least three or four years.


Someone posted an article in this forum a while back stating that ATSC 3.0 would be coming to WLIW in 2023. So maybe by this time next summer we'll have something. And with WEDW building out a new transmitter at ESB I'm wondering why they did not opt for ATSC 3.0.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Antenna Man PA said:


> I doubt it will be 6 months either. They've been saying that ATSC 3.0 is coming to New York "later this year" for at least three or four years.


"EXACTLY!"
that is why I'm not believing ANY dates anymore. They're YEARS behind by now already. So words are just. . Words.
Till it's up n running, I'm not believing anything anymore.
For now 1.0 is the primary format...


----------



## ansky212

I think the biggest issue is that everything is exponentially more expensive in NYC than most other places in the country. So unless the networks can find ways to monetize ATSC 3.0,there is probably not much incentive for them to hurry forward with any upgrades.


----------



## KyL416

ansky212 said:


> And with WEDW building out a new transmitter at ESB I'm wondering why they did not opt for ATSC 3.0.


Because WEDW is primarily a Fairfield county based signal, so none of the other NYC based signals would satisty the 95% coverage area requirements for the ATSC 1.0 simulcasts for WEDW and WZME, and it would leave a massive hole in CPTV's Connecticut coverage.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> Because WEDW is primarily a Fairfield county based signal, so none of the other NYC based signals would satisty the 95% coverage area requirements for the ATSC 1.0 simulcasts for WEDW and WZME, and it would leave a massive hole in CPTV's Connecticut coverage.


Any word on when that is coming on? Are they actively working on it? It seems like they could of had everything lined up and ready to go since they were waiting forever for the permits. Idk maybe we're just too impatient? Maybe it will start working around the same time as 3.0 ? So end of the year? Just not sure which one.
Let's not forget, oxygen is still coming "next" month. 😂

But hey. We get it all for free, so I'm not really complaining. I still think we have one of the best if not THE best TV market in the country. (I loved checking out all different lineups through Locast and a VPN)


----------



## rhrisch

Is there any hint of a simple, cheap, 1 per TV set, just plug your TV cable in, ATSC 3.0 tuner becoming available this year? I am keeping an HDMI 2.0 port on my TV reserved for it, just in case.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Joseph Rubin said:


> I'm ready for it. I have the HDHR Flex 4k.
> I just doubt it will be in 6 months. I hope I'm wrong





rhrisch said:


> Is there any hint of a simple, cheap, 1 per TV set, just plug your TV cable in, ATSC 3.0 tuner becoming available this year? I am keeping an HDMI 2.0 port on my TV reserved for it, just in case.


Is Tablo making a HDMI version of it? Or only network? I'm sure they'll have both eventually.
And I strongly assume that by the time 3.0 is available more than 1.0, there will be a lot of new cheaper options by then. As well as all TV's eventually switching to 3.0 tuners. 
But let's keep in mind. So far we're only talking about a channel. Or some channels, at best. Being in 3.0 format. And even those aren't really 4k yet etc etc etc. So so far it's nothing but a gimmick. Which I'll of course want as soon as it's offered. But that will still leave most of our channels still 1.0 format, for a long while to come probably.


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> Any word on when that is coming on? Are they actively working on it? It seems like they could of had everything lined up and ready to go since they were waiting forever for the permits. Idk maybe we're just too impatient? Maybe it will start working around the same time as 3.0 ? So end of the year? Just not sure which one.
> Let's not forget, oxygen is still coming "next" month. 😂


WEDW keeps submitting CP modifications. Their latest was submitted last month. The prior one took 3 months to get approved, so figure this one won't get approved until the Fall. But you have to assume they have all the equipment by now, so maybe once this is approved it will be quick to come on the air.






Licensing and Management System


Licensing and Management System




enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> WEDW keeps submitting CP modifications. Their latest was submitted last month. The prior one took 3 months to get approved, so you have to figure this one won't get approved until the Fall. But you have to assume they have all the equipment by now, so maybe once this is approved it will be quick to come on the air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Licensing and Management System
> 
> 
> Licensing and Management System
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov


So they're currently AGAIN waiting for a permit?? Oh geeee


----------



## KyL416

Yeah that was mentioned a few pages ago. This one should take quicker since it's only a minor change to correct the radiation height of the ESB antenna, everything else is the same as the one approved in March.

Be happy they chose ESB though. If they chose 1WTC they would probably be in WKOB-LD's situation and waiting months for the Durst org's lawyers and engineers to return their calls, and when they finally do call, it's to say they can't provide the promised facilities (again) and you have to make yet another modificition filing...


----------



## Trip in VA

Remember that any work on these high-rises in major cities like New York is always time-consuming and problematic. In Chicago, for example, ABC, NBC, and Fox are all still on STAs from the repack and don't have their final antennas in place yet.

- Trip


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Yay! I won the eBay auction for the Tablo Quad!! Yay! I'm excited to try it


----------



## Joseph Rubin

I got my new used Tablo Quad today already! I got lucky, the auction ended Thursday afternoon local time, but the seller is in Cali so it was still earlier by him. So I messaged him right after making the payment, asking him to please please try to ship it out that day still, cause since he is sending it via priority mail, I figured it it leaves Thursday I still MIGHT get it Saturday. eBay doesn't require him to ship till 3 business days after payment, but I asked him to please try to get it out that day still. He was very nice about it, and told me he will try to drop it off later that day. A few hours later he messaged me that his wife was dropping it off at the post office. I thanked him a thousand times. And then the nervous wait started. First it was saying ETA is Monday, but I kept tracking it all day Friday hoping it will show up at my local post office, it finally arrived in NY Friday late night, made it JUST in time Saturday early morning to my local Post Office, and right away it went Out For Delivery! And it was at my front door delivered by 10am today already!
I'm so glad I didn't have to wait till Monday. I played around with it all day today, setting up all my recordings etc etc.
I'm loving it so far! It is not a bad DVR. It's growing on me


----------



## kirk28

I have a question regarding reception on my master bedroom tv. I have 2 antennas (Winegard UHF/VHF and Stellar Labs VHF joined with a Televes dual amp/splitter in my attic). 2 Tvs are upstairs, 3 on the first floor. All signals are solid BUT the MB tv. I have switched tvs and cables, removed and added splitters or boosters and the VHF signal is not as strong as the rest of the house. Also, when I turn that TV on, several VHF signals drop about 7db on any other tv and UHF takes a smaller hit. Turn the TV off and all returns to normal. I moved the tv and coax wire to the bedroom next to the master and the problem isn't there. All is well with the network and the OTA signal is fine. All electrical outlets in the MB are fine, I even ran an extension to the other bedroom to see if the problem remained and it did. No problem with LED lights, ceiling fan, air conditioning, yada yada. The only different thing in the MB is some older recessed lighting that is also near the antennas. They are rarely on, FWIW, but I do stare at them wondering.

All that said, The antennas are in the attic above the TV in the MB. I'm beginning to think that the TV is causing an issue with the VHF antenna signal when I turn it on. If I move the tv around the room I've seen the signal fluctuate.

Is there anything I can put on the floor of the attic under the antennas or somewhere else to potentially mitigate this issue? I would prefer not to rearrange my MB or move the antennas.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

kirk28 said:


> I have a question regarding reception on my master bedroom tv. I have 2 antennas (Winegard UHF/VHF and Stellar Labs VHF joined with a Televes dual amp/splitter in my attic). 2 Tvs are upstairs, 3 on the first floor. All signals are solid BUT the MB tv. I have switched tvs and cables, removed and added splitters or boosters and the VHF signal is not as strong as the rest of the house. Also, when I turn that TV on, several VHF signals drop about 7db on any other tv and UHF takes a smaller hit. Turn the TV off and all returns to normal. I moved the tv and coax wire to the bedroom next to the master and the problem isn't there. All is well with the network and the OTA signal is fine. All electrical outlets in the MB are fine, I even ran an extension to the other bedroom to see if the problem remained and it did. No problem with LED lights, ceiling fan, air conditioning, yada yada. The only different thing in the MB is some older recessed lighting that is also near the antennas. They are rarely on, FWIW, but I do stare at them wondering.
> 
> All that said, The antennas are in the attic above the TV in the MB. I'm beginning to think that the TV is causing an issue with the VHF antenna signal when I turn it on. If I move the tv around the room I've seen the signal fluctuate.
> 
> Is there anything I can put on the floor of the attic under the antennas or somewhere else to potentially mitigate this issue? I would prefer not to rearrange my MB or move the antennas.


Oh wow that is interesting indeed!
I was thinking right away maybe LED lights etc. But you said that isn't it 
It sure does sound like some local interference coming from that TV area.
Did you say that tried a different TV in the MB, and had the same results?? That would mean it isn't the TV itself. But must something in the room causing noise.
I'm curious to know if you ever figure out what it is. Please update us


----------



## LenL

Kirk28 you have not told us what make and model of TVs you have tried in your MB that every time you turn them on and only when you turn them on you experience reception issues.


----------



## kirk28

I have all Samsungs and one Vizio. The Vizio is the oldest and was in the MB. I thought that was it and I put in a brand new Samsung. The same thing happened. I put the new Samsung in the room next to the MB and the problem stopped. They are all smart tvs.


----------



## LenL

At my former house the antenna was on the side of the house next to my desktop computer and Samsung lcd monitor. When my computer was on we had problems with VHF reception.

So there can be issues with antennas and household electronics.


----------



## n2ubp

LenL said:


> At my former house the antenna was on the side of the house next to my desktop computer and Samsung lcd monitor. When my computer was on we had problems with VHF reception.
> 
> So there can be issues with antennas and household electronics.


I found VGA display port create all sorts of noise on different bands. Switching to DVI or HDMI made a big difference. Also had a few inexpensive devices with very noisy wall warts.


----------



## pabuwal

After disappearing for a few months, WPIX finally reappeared for me the past week. No idea why.


----------



## LenL

Probably weather related and only temprorary.


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

Hi I am in brooklyn ny and i lost wabc ch 7, it was always on good, is anyone else having problems with wabc ch 7?? are they doing any antenna work at empire state building? it's sunday and this started last night. thanks!


----------



## Joseph Rubin

IT'S ME TOO said:


> Hi I am in brooklyn ny and i lost wabc ch 7, it was always on good, is anyone else having problems with wabc ch 7?? are they doing any antenna work at empire state building? it's sunday and this started last night. thanks!


I'm also in Brooklyn. And channel 7 is always not perfect. Never at 100. But always been good enough so far.
I just tuned to it to check it. It's pretty much the same as it's always been. I'm getting it with 83% strength, 88% quality. Which is about what it always is.. and it's playing fine. I'm watching skating from the X games. Plays fine


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

Joseph Rubin said:


> I'm also in Brooklyn. And channel 7 is always not perfect. Never at 100. But always been good enough so far.
> I just tuned to it to check it. It's pretty much the same as it's always been. I'm getting it with 83% strength, 88% quality. Which is about what it always is.. and it's playing fine. I'm watching skating from the X games. Plays fine


Hi i got most of it back on , but it's weak, thanks for the reply!


----------



## LenL

What equipment are you using?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> What equipment are you using?


I think I know where you're going with this. I was also gonna ask him this. More specifically which type of antenna he has. Cause to pick up 7 reliably, he'd need a good VHF antenna. It sounds like he is dealing with a UHF only antenna.


----------



## LenL

UHF antennas can pick up VHF and vice versa. Just that you have to be in an ideal location to make it work well. I have a gigantic VHF antenna sitting in my garage attic that I discovered was there after I bought the house I am now in. I hooked it up and it not only got VHF super great but also pulled in some UHF stations. But it did not do a great job on the UHF band.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> UHF antennas can pick up VHF and vice versa. Just that you have to be in an ideal location to make it work well. I have a gigantic VHF antenna sitting in my garage attic that I discovered was there after I bought the house I am now in. I hooked it up and it not only got VHF super great but also pulled in some UHF stations. But it did not do a great job on the UHF band.


I learned this lesson the other way around. I was first experimenting with cord cutting with a bunch of different active (powered) antennas, that were basically good UHF antennas, So while they all did pick up the Vhf channels, it was very unreliable. And for me it was especially a issue with the channel I mostly watch. MeTv, cause it's on LO VHF. So while all antennas picked it up, they all had issues on n off constantly. Now I'm finally using a all band with Lo VHF, and I've had ZERO issue on my RF channel 3.

So I strongly suspect he is having these issues on Hi Vhf, for the same reason probably. But luckily it's a lot easier to add hi Vhf, than it was for me to add lo vhf, but it was worth it.


----------



## rhrisch

Some changes I have noticed this summer from my position 33 miles due north of the World Trade Center using a Winegard GS-2200 Sensar III roof antenna: Have been getting Channel 25 well, day and night; Have been getting 50, 58 and 63 poorly in the day but not at all at night. Every other channel that I see discussed here comes in well. The Antennaman has said here that my antenna is pretty basic but I won't upgrade at least until ATSC 3.0 happens. I doubt that I can improve my Channel 21 (first 3.0 broadcaster?) reception from what it is now.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

rhrisch said:


> Some changes I have noticed this summer from my position 33 miles due north of the World Trade Center using a Winegard GS-2200 Sensar III roof antenna: Have been getting Channel 25 well, day and night; Have been getting 50, 58 and 63 poorly in the day but not at all at night. Every other channel that I see discussed here comes in well. The Antennaman has said here that my antenna is pretty basic but I won't upgrade at least until ATSC 3.0 happens. I doubt that I can improve my Channel 21 (first 3.0 broadcaster?) reception from what it is now.


Interesting! Just to compare.... I used to get 25 perfectly till very recently. 50, and 58 I don't pick up at all. And 63 is not perfectly strong, but it's playing almost perfectly (I love 63.2 quest). But 21 I get as perfect as possible. 100 flawless. 
I think because your In a area that gets the 50 and 58 PBS channels, so maybe that's why you're not covered well by 21? Not sure about that.


----------



## ansky212

rhrisch said:


> Some changes I have noticed this summer from my position 33 miles due north of the World Trade Center using a Winegard GS-2200 Sensar III roof antenna: Have been getting Channel 25 well, day and night; Have been getting 50, 58 and 63 poorly in the day but not at all at night. Every other channel that I see discussed here comes in well. The Antennaman has said here that my antenna is pretty basic but I won't upgrade at least until ATSC 3.0 happens. I doubt that I can improve my Channel 21 (first 3.0 broadcaster?) reception from what it is now.


WNJB (50/58) broadcasts from Warren, NJ which would be to your southwest. WLIW broadcasts from WTC. Are you able to pick up other WTC stations like WNBC or WCBS? WMBC 63 is a DTS with a transmitter at ESB and another in Montclair, NJ so you're probably somewhere in between their individual coverage areas. WMBC has a CP to move to WTC but there is no telling if or when that will ever happen.


----------



## rhrisch

ansky212 said:


> WNJB (50/58) broadcasts from Warren, NJ which would be to your southwest. WLIW broadcasts from WTC. Are you able to pick up other WTC stations like WNBC or WCBS? WMBC 63 is a DTS with a transmitter at ESB and another in Montclair, NJ so you're probably somewhere in between their individual coverage areas. WMBC has a CP to move to WTC but there is no telling if or when that will ever happen.


I've been getting, with no problems, since last October when I got my new TV: 2-14, 21, 31, 33, 37, 41, 46-48 and 68. I am surprised that starting this summer I have been getting 25 without glitches after not getting it at all for quite a while. I don't have any tall buildings or trees to interfere with my reception.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

rhrisch said:


> I've been getting, with no problems, since last October when I got my new TV: 2-14, 21, 31, 33, 37, 41, 46-48 and 68. I am surprised that starting this summer I have been getting 25 without glitches after not getting it at all for quite a while. I don't have any tall buildings or trees to interfere with my reception.


Just FYI, 33, and 37 are both the same RF channel (3), so if you have one, you have the other... And that's so weird, while you recently started getting a good signal for 25. I always had a perfect one but recently turned really bad.... All other channels I have as well. But I also get 63 pretty good.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Does anyone here use the "Channels Whole Home DVR"?
If anyone had any experience with it, please I'd like to hear what you think of it.
Thanks


----------



## hancox

Joseph Rubin said:


> Does anyone here use the "Channels Whole Home DVR"?
> If anyone had any experience with it, please I'd like to hear what you think of it.
> Thanks


I do, and I'm now a borderline zealot for it. Especially if you have a strong OTA setup, and even moreso if you like to switch OTT providers (Fubo, YTTV, etc), it's a really fantastic product.

Feel free to PM, but there is also a very useful forum for channels at Channels Community


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> Does anyone here use the "Channels Whole Home DVR"?
> If anyone had any experience with it, please I'd like to hear what you think of it.
> Thanks


I tried it and it's a decent product, but at $8/month ($80/year) I found it too expensive, particularly because I don't do much recording anymore. I ended up getting the HD Homerun DVR which is only $35/year. Channels DVR has an automatic commercial skip feature, but I found that it was not very accurate in detecting commercials for many shows. Another advantage of Channels is that it allows for out of home streaming, whereas the HDHR only supports in-home streaming. But again, I found that I really didn't use the out of home streaming enough to make it worth it.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> I tried it and it's a decent product, but at $8/month ($80/year) I found it too expensive, particularly because I don't do much recording anymore. I ended up getting the HD Homerun DVR which is only $35/year. Channels DVR has an automatic commercial skip feature, but I found that it was not very accurate in detecting commercials for many shows. Another advantage of Channels is that it allows for out of home streaming, whereas the HDHR only supports in-home streaming. But again, I found that I really didn't use the out of home streaming enough to make it worth it.


I also thought it was too expensive. That's why I didn't try it till now, and only used the HDHR DVR service. 
But as I've written here before, I bought a used Tablo Quad recently, and after trying it for a few weeks, and liking some things. Not liking others .... I found there is a 30 free trial for Channels whole home DVR, so I figured I'll try the free month..... After using it for only a couple of days, I FELL IN LOVE WITH IT!!! so much so that I'm not gonna be paying another month of the Tablo subscription. I'm just gonna use it with no subscription. And when the year of HDHR DVR service runs out, I most likely won't renew that either. Cause Channels to me feels like THE perfect hybrid between HDHR and Tablo. It's like the best of both, without the issues of each.. it's amazing!!!

And btw, I've tried the Commercials skip feature, from both Tablo (they're sunsetting this feature btw, won't be available to new customers anymore), and from Channels. Channels is WAY more accurate! But still not 100% perfect. But a lot better than Tablo. And then I learned that from the server settings page you can actually edit the commercials yourself. Which is freaking awesome!
So ya, while Channels is indeed more pricey than the HDHR option, I still think it's well worth the price. Definitely more worth it than Tablo, which costs the same thing.
It literately completes the HDHR! And made Tablo completely useless.
I'm in love


----------



## ericthelocalenthusiast

I have an HDHR and originally tried Plex, which I liked, especially the fact that you could buy a lifetime pass to Plex for relatively cheap. However, seeing all of the issues with Plex and 3.0 compatibility (which will be important to me), I wasn't convinced Plex was for the long haul. Feeling nervous about trying something else, I decided what the heck, let's give Channels a go. Channels .. is .. amazing! I LOVE it. It's not quite as clean or pretty as Plex, but what it does, it does exceptionally well. Importing old shows is a breeze, the commercial skip is more accurate than I would've expected, and I like that you can add other OTT streaming services so you can actually get OTA and cable all in one package. In addition, one other neat feature I like is "Virtual Channels". You can have the system create your own stations that play back your content, kind of like your own HBO. I have a channel that's constantly showing home movies, another showing Friends, another showing the latest talk shows. And, if you ever have an issue, the Channels developers are on the support forums helping and answering questions in a very timely manner. Channels is way more powerful than I would've ever imagined, and I'm upset I waited so long to install it. Go with Channels.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ericthelocalenthusiast said:


> I have an HDHR and originally tried Plex, which I liked, especially the fact that you could buy a lifetime pass to Plex for relatively cheap. However, seeing all of the issues with Plex and 3.0 compatibility (which will be important to me), I wasn't convinced Plex was for the long haul. Feeling nervous about trying something else, I decided what the heck, let's give Channels a go. Channels .. is .. amazing! I LOVE it. It's not quite as clean or pretty as Plex, but what it does, it does exceptionally well. Importing old shows is a breeze, the commercial skip is more accurate than I would've expected, and I like that you can add other OTT streaming services so you can actually get OTA and cable all in one package. In addition, one other neat feature I like is "Virtual Channels". You can have the system create your own stations that play back your content, kind of like your own HBO. I have a channel that's constantly showing home movies, another showing Friends, another showing the latest talk shows. And, if you ever have an issue, the Channels developers are on the support forums helping and answering questions in a very timely manner. Channels is way more powerful than I would've ever imagined, and I'm upset I waited so long to install it. Go with Channels.


I agree with everything you said! Channels is indeed THE best!! I also regret not having tried it sooner. 
And I agree the commercial skip is better than I imagined it would be. (And you can edit it from the server page!)..
The only thing I didn't try yet, is the virtual channel. I saw it on the settings, but didn't understand what it is exactly till you mentioned it now. So? It plays your saved videos in a loop? Can you set up a channel from the recordings?? I'm gonna have to play around with that a little and experiment with it. 

It's amazing, I have not come across a signal person that doesn't like Channels. They really did it right


----------



## Mediterraneo

Joseph Rubin said:


> Does anyone here use the "Channels Whole Home DVR"?
> If anyone had any experience with it, please I'd like to hear what you think of it.
> Thanks


I was a Channels DVR subscriber for about 1 year. I guess you could say I was a power user. Initially, I fell in love and played around will all sorts of setups (HDHR, IPTV providers, European channels, TV Everywhere cable logins I purchased for cheap on the black market, etc). Over time, I grew frustrated with various UI quirks (both on the dashboard/server and on the client apps), missing features that people had been asking for years on their forum, TV Everywhere cable channels that would occasionally go offline (or no longer work with the provider) etc.. Eventually, I figured that me and my family don't watch that much live tv to justify $8/month and I found another solution that works for me (and for free).

I also have Lifetime PLEX Pass, but their whole Live TV setup & options are extremely buggy, unreliable and require a bunch of workarounds (for what I need). If it is only used with a HDHR though, it's pretty reliable (depending on your server setup).


----------



## Mediterraneo

Now that Oxygen is available OTA on many markets (any news on NYC deployment?) I would expect its website to have a free live stream and videos. It's incoherent that it still requires a login with a "cable provider".


----------



## KyL416

They're still slowly rolling it out, the NBC O&O in Miami and some Telemundo O&Os in Texas got it over the past month, and a bunch of Telemundo O&Os in New Mexico got it last week. I think the Telemundo O&Os in Tampa and Orlando recently got it too over the past month.

If it's like how LX rolled out, NYC will be one of the last markets to get it. At last check the Telemundo O&Os in Sacramento, Stockton, Vegas, Salt Lake City, Fort Myers and El Paso also don't have it yet.


----------



## ansky212

Is the OTA version of Oxygen a simulcast of the cable network, or is it a completely different schedule?


----------



## KyL416

It's the same as the cable channel.


----------



## replayrob

Anyone know if WNBC 4 NY (from 1WT) is currently down or in low power mode?
I'm in mid Suffolk and usually pull it in with a signal strength of mid to upper 60's on my TiVio from my roof mounted Antennas Direct Yagi Long Range UHF HDTV Antenna 91XG?
This morning the TiVo is reporting LOS and when scanning for it on my LG OLED TV it's showing 0 for signal strength for physical channel 35. When I tune to FOX 5 NY (physical ch 27.3 from 1WT and same antenna height as WNBC) I get 65+ sig strength. CBS 2 from 1WT is also coming in at 71+ on my sig strength meter.

I've never seen NBC4 at 0.0 for signal strength..... see photos below.


----------



## jrampoldi

see below, I'm in Hoboken, NJ


----------



## KyL416

The live bandscans in Fair Lawn and Monroe CT both show a dip in power and SNR for WNJU/WNBC at exactly the same time.


----------



## replayrob

jrampoldi said:


> see below, I'm in Hoboken, NJ


Thanks, guess they're not off the air completely, but you're what 10 air miles away from WT? Even at 5% power you'd get great sig strength.

Thanks again for checking!


----------



## ansky212

I'm in West Orange, NJ about 10 miles outside the city. I'm getting WNBC at 86% strength and 100% signal quality.


----------



## replayrob

KyL416 said:


> The live bandscans in Fair Lawn and Monroe CT both show a dip in power and SNR for WNJU/WNBC at exactly the same time.


Thank you! I never knew those live scans were available at RabbitEars. Will keep an eye on WNBC/WNJU going forward.


Looks like that 20% drop off that started this morning was enough to knock them under my RX threshold.


----------



## replayrob

deleted...


----------



## KyL416

That's not WNJU/WNBC specific, for whatever reason the Richmond Hill live bandscan stopped reporting data entirely at around 4:20 this morning.

But if you look closely, you can see a slight drop in SNR around the same time that Fair Lawn and Monroe had a dip in signal.


----------



## hancox

Monroe is mine - ask me anything


----------



## replayrob

hancox said:


> Monroe is mine - ask me anything


Thank you...

On the weekly graph, I see a slight blue tick on July 23rd, then no blue line again till today July 28th. What does that tell us?

Thanks


----------



## KyL416

Look closer at the top of the graph. The blue line has always been there, it's at the top of the graph on the days when they were getting a 100% reading for SNR.


----------



## hancox

Yep. Excellent televes preamp  The blips are probably just tropo / atmospheric stuff / cow farts, etc.


----------



## replayrob

Well, still below usable signal for me on WNBC since this morning... I am 51 air miles almost due East of WT.


Signal graphs for WNJU at Fair Lawn, NJ-N4MJC tuner1...


----------



## rcodey

ON WZME channel 43, RF21, they just added 43.12 . The picture is just color bars and says Weigal NOC ( which I assume means Network operations center ) . Wonder what channel is going to be placed there .


----------



## ansky212

rcodey said:


> ON WZME channel 43, RF21, they just added 43.12 . The picture is just color bars and says Weigal NOC ( which I assume means Network operations center ) . Wonder what channel is going to be placed there .


There is some discussion about this in the Hartford forum. Someone mentioned the Movies! network as a possibility.


----------



## KyL416

It's not Movies related as .12 EMLW has appeared in nearly every Weigel market, including on stations in Hartford, Seattle and Nashville that already have all 7 of Weigel's networks. 

When Weigel adds a new subchannel they usually use the next available minor number, so it's probably just a remote engineering test since Weigel doesn't have any trademarks registered for a new network. (i.e. the trademark for Story was filed several months before it was announced and test feeds started appearing). Those last few numbers next to the clock on the test pattern are the frames and fields, so they might be testing out a new encoder.


----------



## swooster

replayrob said:


> Anyone know if WNBC 4 NY (from 1WT) is currently down or in low power mode? I'm in mid Suffolk and usually pull it in with a signal strength of mid to upper 60's on my TiVio from my roof mounted Antennas Direct Yagi Long Range UHF HDTV Antenna 91XG? This morning the TiVo is reporting LOS and when scanning for it on my LG OLED TV it's showing 0 for signal strength for physical channel 35. When I tune to FOX 5 NY (physical ch 27.3 from 1WT and same antenna height as WNBC) I get 65+ sig strength. CBS 2 from 1WT is also coming in at 71+ on my sig strength meter. I've never seen NBC4 at 0.0 for signal strength..... see photos below.
> View attachment 3312998
> View attachment 3312999
> View attachment 3313000


 I am in Morris County NJ and having the exact same issue. NBC always had the strongest signal. Now it's pretty much zero. I also lost H&I.


----------



## LenL

I'm in Randolph and so far no issues. Where are you exactly in Morris County and what equipment are you using?


----------



## replayrob

swooster said:


> I am in Morris County NJ and having the exact same issue. NBC always had the strongest signal. Now it's pretty much zero. I also lost H&I.


I put in a phone call to WNBC (212-664-4444) this morning requesting the engineering dept. After I explained the situation, the operator tried to get someone for me but was unable to so she took my contact info. To my surprise a nice (knowledgeable) lady from NBC called me back just a few min ago to get the exact details of the condition and promised to contact Engineering regarding the issue. She said it probably won't happen today since it's a summer Friday afternoon, but I should expect a call back sometime Monday. I mentioned the live scans on rabbitears.info and she was familiar with the site.

Still same reduced signal level since early Thurs morning on WNBC 4 (RF ch 35) which is just enough of a drop to knock it off the air for me being 51 mi east of WT.


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

Hi i'm in Brooklyn NY and ch 9 rf 25 WWOR is not on , i know not part of wnbc, but is anyone else having CH9 issues ?


----------



## KyL416

WWOR's RF 25 signal is on the air, but it has been at reduced power since yesterday at around noon, this also affects WRNN's 48.x channels:
Fair Lawn NJ
Monroe CT


----------



## swooster

LenL said:


> I'm in Randolph and so far no issues. Where are you exactly in Morris County and what equipment are you using?


I am in Flanders. When you say no issues, what is the signal strength and quality?


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

KyL416 said:


> WWOR's RF 25 signal is on the air, but it has been at reduced power since yesterday afternoon:
> Fair Lawn NJ
> Monroe CT


THANKS for the info!


----------



## LenL

I just checked at 3 PM and according to my DVR+ signal strength and quality are both 100%.

You still need to tell us what equipment you are using with make and models: antenna, preamps, antenna location etc.


----------



## KyL416

LenL said:


> You still need to tell us what equipment you are using with make and models: antenna, preamps, antenna location etc.


This is not an issue caused by replayrob's, swooster's, IT'S ME TOO's, or any other viewers' equipment.

We have confirmation from multiple live bandscans that both WNJU/WNBC and WWOR/WRNN have been at reduced power since yesterday since they all show a drop in signal strength and SNR at the exactly the same time, shortly after midnight for WNJU's RF 35 signal and shortly after noon yesterday for WWOR's RF 25 signal.



LenL said:


> I just checked at 3 PM and according to my DVR+ signal strength and quality are both 100%.


Randolph NJ is very close to the towers, so you wouldn't really notice a change unless you have a meter that reports specific dB values for signal strength and SNR instead of using a percentage scale like the DVR+ uses.


----------



## LenL

Well my equipment is handling the reduced power just fine so it may be we need to know what equipment is being used. If you knew where Flanders is you would also know that he is maybe 40 miles out and there are hills and mountains between him and the the broadcasters. He is 10 miles further away than I am so it maybe his equipment may be of interest. To me at least. 

So his equipment is important. Also when people ask for help or complain about reception it is always good to get facts about their particular equipment.

I am getting 100/100 with a small YAGI antenna: RCA751R with a CM 777 preamp and mounted outside about 20-25 feet high.


----------



## replayrob

FWIW, a friend who's in the radio business is suggesting that WNBC has most likely switched to a lower height, backup antenna for maintenance on their regular antenna system. Of course that's just a guess till we have further info... but he says that's quite common. He also told me they can run at reduced power for up to 90 days till they have to report it to the FCC.


----------



## replayrob

LenL said:


> I'm in Randolph and so far no issues. Where are you exactly in Morris County and what equipment are you using?


Looking at Google maps.. you're about 25 air miles (?) from WT so a 10-12% drop in signal strength will still leave you with great signal from a 575 kW ERP source.

I'm 51 air miles from WT...WNBC is indicated as just "Fair" signal strength on rabbitears.info when the station is operating at 100% power. The recent 10-12% power drop is enough to prevent my TiVo and OLED TV from locking on to the signal which I have been receiving for years.


----------



## LenL

At my exact address I'm closer to 30 miles out from WTC broadcasts.


----------



## KyL416

That is still very close to 1 WTC. The 1WTC antennas are 1627' for the lower antenna (WNJU/WNBC's main signal) and 1706' for the upper antenna (WWOR/WRNN's main signal) which lets reduced power signals still provide a strong signal over that area. Unless stations are transmitting from their backup facilities at Orange Mountain (WNYW, WABC, WWOR, WPIX) or possibly 4 Times Square (WNJU and WNET), you wouldn't personally have an issue like people in areas further west or further east of Manhattan would have.

When you are that close to the signals, meters that only show percentages don't really provide useful information for diagnosing if stations are at reduced power, since "100%" can mean anything above a certain dB threshold that varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. i.e. HDHomeRun's meter reports anything above -50 dBmV for Signal Strength and 30 dB for Signal Quality (SNR) as 100% and the 15 dB SNR threshold for decoding as 50% Signal Quality. If you had a meter like the dev version of the HDHomeRun 4K that reports dBmV for Signal Strength and dB for SNR, you would see a drop in those levels compared to what you had on Wednesday, even though the bars are still full.
i.e. say you usually have a Signal Strength of -42 dBmV, but now have -51 dBmV, the signal strength bar on the HDHomeRun meter would still be pegged at 100%. That's why the Richmond Hill (Queens) live bandscan still had 100% signal strength when it was reporting data, even though every other bandscan further away showed a dip at the exact same time.
Digital is also an all or nothing thing with a cliff effect, so unless the SNR is near the 15 dB threshold, you will still have a perfect picture and HDHomeRun's symbol quality meter usually stays pegged at 100% outside of some temporary interference like multipath from an approaching plane or electric noise from a high power appliance clicking on.


----------



## LenL

Unfortunately I don't own any sophisticated equipment to measure signal quality and strength other than my eyes and my DVR+. My DVR+ however shows exactly what my eyes see. I have situations where the picture drops out and I check the DVR+ and it tells me signal strength is 100% and quality is 0% or something low. So I would not poo poo basic equipment that validates what the eyes tell you.


----------



## swooster

replayrob said:


> I put in a phone call to WNBC (212-664-4444) this morning requesting the engineering dept. After I explained the situation, the operator tried to get someone for me but was unable to so she took my contact info. To my surprise a nice (knowledgeable) lady from NBC called me back just a few min ago to get the exact details of the condition and promised to contact Engineering regarding the issue. She said it probably won't happen today since it's a summer Friday afternoon, but I should expect a call back sometime Monday. I mentioned the live scans on rabbitears.info and she was familiar with the site. Still same reduced signal level since early Thurs morning on WNBC 4 (RF ch 35) which is just enough of a drop to knock it off the air for me being 51 mi east of WT.
> View attachment 3313460


 The signal strength is back up for me. I can receive channel 4 and channel 9 again.


----------



## replayrob

swooster said:


> The signal strength is back up for me. I can receive channel 4 and channel 9 again.


It has ticked up slightly, but still not enough for me to be usable at 51 mi east of WT... see 5-day graph below.


----------



## ughAudio

KyL416 said:


> The 1WTC antennas are 1627' for the lower antenna (WNJU/WNBC's main signal) and 1706' for the upper antenna (WWOR/WRNN's main signal) which lets reduced power signals still provide a strong signal over that area. Unless stations are transmitting from their backup facilities at Orange Mountain (WNYW, WABC, WWOR, WPIX) or possibly 4 Times Square (WNJU and WNET), you wouldn't personally have an issue like people in areas further west or further east of Manhattan would have.
> <snip>


So much appreciation of the wealth of knowledge you share with us all here.

Especially interesting for me to learn about the different antenna heights and power levels! Still playing around with this neighbor's really old (and broken elements) Winegard aimed as a second antenna to NewYork from 60+ miles south near Philly.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Not sure why exactly, but it seems that my channel 25's are back playing perfectly!! The signal strength n quality is still far from a perfect 100%, but I've never gotten that for this channel. So for now it seems to be back to the way it was. At least it's playing perfectly smooth now.


----------



## LenL

Joseph Rubin said:


> Not sure why exactly, but it seems that my channel 25's are back playing perfectly!! The signal strength n quality is still far from a perfect 100%, but I've never gotten that for this channel. So for now it seems to be back to the way it was. At least it's playing perfectly smooth now.


 Probably weather related.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Probably weather related.


Naaaa.... It was bad for a little too long to be weather related. It was bad for a couple of weeks at least.


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

hi does anybody have the bandscan for WJLP ch 33 rf 3 this station i get mostly , i have antop 800b antenna . i'm in brooklyn ny near brighton beach, the antop has vhf rods but not that log for the rf 3 but i usually get it but for the past 2 weeks almost never. also where do i find the bandscans on the rabbit ears, when i go there i get a blank box with other boxes filled in, thank you


----------



## replayrob

As of midnight last night, NBC-NY 4 (RF 35) suddenly gained about half of what it lost last Thursday. It's just enough bump up in TX power that I can now pull in their signal (from 51 air miles east of WT) once again with a signal strength of 70 or so on the TiVo. Being that both the sudden drop and now sudden increase happend just after midnight indicates to me it was a "man made" issue.


----------



## replayrob

IT'S ME TOO said:


> hi does anybody have the bandscan for WJLP ch 33 rf 3 this station i get mostly , i have antop 800b antenna . i'm in brooklyn ny near brighton beach, the antop has vhf rods but not that log for the rf 3 but i usually get it but for the past 2 weeks almost never. also where do i find the bandscans on the rabbit ears, when i go there i get a blank box with other boxes filled in, thank you


Here's the TV Reception Map at Rabbitears: TV reception map
Once you zoom in on your area, choose a site you're interested in on the right side of the page, once that site is loaded.. on the left side of the page choose a station then click on "graph" for the band scan you're looking for.


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

replayrob said:


> Here's the TV Reception Map at Rabbitears: TV reception map
> Once you zoom in on your area, choose a site you're interested in on the right side of the page, once that site is loaded.. on the left side of the page choose a station then click on "graph" for the band scan you're looking for.


hi i did that and there is no close location to NYC listed i went over it 2X is there away to just click on bandscan for WJLP Ch 33/RF 3?


----------



## KyL416

Since WJLP is a VHF-lo station, the live bandscans aren't really a reliable data source to determine signal issues as most of the available area bandscans seem to either have frequent ambient noise interference or aren't using VHF-lo capable antennas and only occasionally pick it up when the boost conditions are right. (i.e. Monroe CT last decoded it in August 2021, and their raw signal strengths for the VHF-lo frequencies are significantly lower than their VHF-Hi and UHF signal strengths, which usually indicates a setup not optimized for VHF-lo)
The only one currently decoding it is Mount Bethel NJ, and they appear to have recently changed their setup since all of their signal levels changed at exactly the same time in mid-June, so it also isn't a reliable source for reception data over the past year.

This time of the year e-skip is also common, so the band scans may get interference from random RF 3 stations thousands of miles away. (i.e. On Sunday the bandscan in Garland, Nebraska picked up WJLP)


----------



## cysjunk

WZME added 43-12 and is showing infomercials.


----------



## cysjunk

WZME added 43-12 as well. They seem to be airing infomercials now and the audio is very compressed. You can hear the level of compression in the audio.


----------



## cysjunk

Here comes what seems to be the end of the infomercials. My Windows Media Center recording has started, we'll see if any IDs pop up.


----------



## Brian in CT

IT'S ME TOO said:


> i have antop 800b antenna . i'm in brooklyn ny near brighton beach, the antop has vhf rods but not that log for the rf 3 but i usually get it but for the past 2 weeks almost never.


Your Antop 800sbs is not an ideal antenna for picking up VHF-Lo TV signals. You were likely getting a usable signal because you're so close to WJLP's transmitter in Times Square. Since you say you stopped receiving WJLP reliably two weeks ago, it's possible interference is at play. Did you buy some electric gizmo recently? Things like cheap LED lights, computer monitors, power inverters, or security cameras can cause havoc on even the strongest of VHF-Lo signals. To rule this out, you should shut off anything that might be causing any possible interference when trying to tune your TV to WJLP. Maybe if you shut the right thing off, WJLP will come back.


----------



## cysjunk

Any idea when .12 will be remapped to .3 or whatever comes next for Weigel DMA stations?
I have a feeling this is either supposed to be on one station or the channel is being leased out to ontv4u.


----------



## cysjunk

Also note WZME has had a 3rd subchannel before, however all that ever aired on it was a screen offering it to whoever may be interested. I'd assume it was deleted because no-one wanted it.


----------



## KyL416

cysjunk said:


> Any idea when .12 will be remapped to .3 or whatever comes next for Weigel DMA stations?
> I have a feeling this is either supposed to be on one station or the channel is being leased out to ontv4u.


Weigel intentionally put it on the .12 subchannels so it has a uniform placement and doesn't disrupt any future changes like potential new networks/affiliation deals or when existing contracts end and they can move more of their networks to their newly acquired O&O stations in cities like Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, Cleveland, San Francisco, LA and NYC. Kind of how every Ion station added one of HSN or QVC's networks to their .8 channel, even on ones that don't have a .7 because of spectrum sharing.



cysjunk said:


> Also note WZME has had a 3rd subchannel before, however all that ever aired on it was a screen offering it to whoever may be interested. I'd assume it was deleted because no-one wanted it.


No, it went away because they sold their spectrum and started sharing with WEDW. Prior to that 43.3 was Comet and 43.4 was Charge! That was also under different ownership, Weigel purchased the station from NRJ last fall.


----------



## Carboncompound

KyL416 said:


> No, it went away because they sold their spectrum and started sharing with WEDW. Prior to that 43.3 was Comet and 43.4 was Charge! That was also under different ownership, Weigel purchased the station from NRJ last fall.


Strangely Rabbitears.info has WZME 49.3 as CPTV Spirit "coming soon".


----------



## KyL416

Only the 43.x channels are WZME's, the 49.x channels belong to the host station WEDW, which is the Fairfield County/NYC DMA signal for Connecticut's statewide PBS station.

Basically the channel sharing agreement gives each of them half of the bandwidth, WEDW used to have Spirit, but then they used their half to temporarily host WTXX-LD's channels, so 49.1 became SD and 49.3 was dropped. (The NYC DMA is served mainly by WNET for PBS's primetime schedule, while portions of Southwestern Connecticut still got CPTV HD and Spirit via their Hartford signal)


----------



## LATV

WMBC-TV 63 (RF 18) just filed a license to cover to operate from the WTC.





Licensing and Management System


Licensing and Management System




enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov


----------



## melegaridouglas3

swooster said:


> I am in Morris County NJ and having the exact same issue. NBC always had the strongest signal. Now it's pretty much zero. I also lost H&I.


 I live in Burlington County and for the last week and a half, I haven’t been able to get WNBC and it has always come in strong with my UHF antennas. I emailed a complaint to the station and nothing. I urge all of you to do so and let them know this as well.


----------



## melegaridouglas3

swooster said:


> I am in Morris County NJ and having the exact same issue. NBC always had the strongest signal. Now it's pretty much zero. I also lost H&I.


I live in Burlington County and have always gotten WNBC in strong. For the last week, I haven’t received any signal, not even a small percent. I emailed the station and received no reply. I urge everyone to keep emailing them. I will also be calling them tomorrow.


----------



## Trip in VA

LATV said:


> WMBC-TV 63 (RF 18) just filed a license to cover to operate from the WTC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Licensing and Management System
> 
> 
> Licensing and Management System
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov


Weird. None of the Live Bandscan Receivers look any different. I'd have expected an improvement on my tuner in Fair Lawn.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> Weird. None of the Live Bandscan Receivers look any different. I'd have expected an improvement on my tuner in Fair Lawn.
> 
> - Trip


The license to cover app shows as Pending. Do they have to wait for it to be approved? My antenna is pointed East (right at WTC) and I'm not picking up WMBC, so I doubt they are on the air from WTC. If I point my antenna to the north I can pick up their transmitter in Montclair.


----------



## Trip in VA

No. Except when converting to 3.0 or turning on a station on channel 14, a license to cover is filed within 10 days after operation begins, not before.

- Trip


----------



## ansky212

Trip in VA said:


> No. Except when converting to 3.0 or turning on a station on channel 14, a license to cover is filed within 10 days after operation begins, not before.
> 
> - Trip


Maybe they have been working on the WMBC antenna at WTC and that's why WNBC was at reduced power. Could be related.


----------



## SnellKrell

Also, there's ongoing work on WNET's and WLIW's antennas/transmitters for the upcoming implementation of ATSC 3.0.


----------



## uddiny2017

Is WNJBs Signal Still Reciveble in NY and Northern NJ?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> Maybe they have been working on the WMBC antenna at WTC and that's why WNBC was at reduced power. Could be related.


Maybe they mistook the M for a N. 😂


----------



## SnellKrell

Joseph Rubin said:


> Maybe they mistook the M for a N. 😂


Good try, but in actuality, no longer does WNBC have any hardware on WTC1.

It's WNJU!


----------



## hancox

SnellKrell said:


> Also, there's ongoing work on WNET's and WLIW's antennas/transmitters for the upcoming implementation of ATSC 3.0.


Something was def. up. All of my NY scans nosedived, and same back, in the span of a few hours.


----------



## fri1038

Maybe due to the strong tropo conditions this morning. I was seeing WMBC and WLNY here in Maryland between 8 and 9.


----------



## replayrob

melegaridouglas3 said:


> I live in Burlington County and have always gotten WNBC in strong. For the last week, I haven’t received any signal, not even a small percent. I emailed the station and received no reply. I urge everyone to keep emailing them. I will also be calling them tomorrow.


As of about noon yesterday (Wed) WNBC 4 NY (RF ch. 35 from WT Building) is back up to full power again after being at reduced TX for almost a full week... (I added the red line in the graph below).


----------



## LATV

Maybe WMBC filed the license to cover but actually has not constructed. They would not be the first station to file an application with wrong data.


----------



## KyL416

uddiny2017 said:


> Is WNJBs Signal Still Reciveble in NY and Northern NJ?


Yes, but since it transmits in New Jersey from a tower that's shorter than most of NYC's skyscrapers, a lot of areas East of Manhattan have trouble with it. Terrain blocked areas of northwestern NJ like Sussex and Warren counties are served by their Sussex, Belvidere and Hackettstown translators.

The Richmond Hill bandscan is in Queens so it only gets it occasionally when the boost conditions are right, while Mount Bethel NJ, which is less than a mile from the tower, constantly has a strong signal.


----------



## cysjunk

KyL416 said:


> No, it went away because they sold their spectrum and started sharing with WEDW. Prior to that 43.3 was Comet and 43.4 was Charge! That was also under different ownership, Weigel purchased the station from NRJ last fall.


I meant when it was affiliated with Shop HQ. I think I may have a picture.


----------



## cysjunk




----------



## cysjunk

Carboncompound said:


> Strangely Rabbitears.info has WZME 49.3 as CPTV Spirit "coming soon".


They did have CPTV Spirit as a subchannel on WEDW until they removed it unexpectedly in 2019 or 2020. If it does reappear it'll likely be on WEDW.
As far as I know WEDW hasn't carried the PBS Kids channel either (formerly CPTV Create).


----------



## kirk28

Brian in CT said:


> Your Antop 800sbs is not an ideal antenna for picking up VHF-Lo TV signals. You were likely getting a usable signal because you're so close to WJLP's transmitter in Times Square. Since you say you stopped receiving WJLP reliably two weeks ago, it's possible interference is at play. Did you buy some electric gizmo recently? Things like cheap LED lights, computer monitors, power inverters, or security cameras can cause havoc on even the strongest of VHF-Lo signals. To rule this out, you should shut off anything that might be causing any possible interference when trying to tune your TV to WJLP. Maybe if you shut the right thing off, WJLP will come back.


FWIW, i attached the wires from an old flat dipole antenna to 2 screws on my Stellar Labs VHF antenna. I looped it high over a hook in the attic (just messing around with what i had). I now get all the WJLP stations and its been solid for over a week. I plan on playing around with it a little more to see if i can improve signal strengths when it's not so hot, but hey it works right now.


----------



## KyL416

It looks like WMBC finally switched to 1WTC today, all the live bandscans show a bump in signal strength and SNR at around 9am this morning.


----------



## rhrisch

KyL416 said:


> It looks like WMBC finally switched to 1WTC today, all the live bandscans show a bump in signal strength and SNR at around 9am this morning.


Yes. I just checked and it is coming in strong (SS 76). I am 33 miles due north of the WTC. Since 25 1-3 started working again this summer (SS 46), that leaves only 50 and 58 giving poor reception. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if I lose 25 again in the fall.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> It looks like WMBC finally switched to 1WTC today, all the live bandscans show a bump in signal strength and SNR at around 9am this morning.


I agree. With my antenna pointed east towards NYC I was never able to pick up WMBC's Montclair transmitter without rotating my antenna to the north. Today I can receive them with the antenna pointed east so that confirms WTC is on the air.


----------



## LenL

WABC 7.1 etc.currently broadcasts from the ESB? If so does anyone know of any future plans to move to 1WTC?


----------



## KyL416

They used to have a construction permit to return to 1WTC using the VHF master antenna that WNET now uses, but I think it has since expired.

WPIX had one too, but they never filed a modification to reflect the final layout and model used for the master antenna, and instead they increased their power from Empire.


----------



## SnellKrell

KyL416 said:


> They used to have a construction permit to return to 1WTC using the shared VHF master antenna, but I think it has since expired.


I was told by Trip at RabbitEars that all stations that were on the previous World Trade Center, North Tower,
automatically received Construction Permits for 1WTC without filing for same.

Disney/ABC has a long standing relationship with Durst going back to 4TS, but they chose not to leave ESB.

The Channel 7 signal from ESB is powerful and has been called a "Flame Thrower" by an engineer friend!


----------



## KyL416

In WABC's case at one point they were actively planning to return to 1WTC since they made multiple amendments to reflect the final height and model of the master VHF antenna, along with mutual interference agreements with WNJB, WGAL, WBNG, WWNY and WXXA to allow all of them to file for increases. The clock for the new 1WTC CPs started in 2015 when construction was finally completed, so WABC's ended up expiring in 2018.

Technically, WABC had the biggest signal in the market. When the other stations filed for their increases during the maximization window, they based it on WABC's 68.5 mile contour.

It has since been overtaken by WJLP's 73.9 mile contour, but that's mainly due to a joint mutual intereference agreement between WDPN/2, WVIR/2, WACP/4 and WJLP to try to overcome the VHF-lo ambient noise issues.


----------



## LenL

KyL416 said:


> They used to have a construction permit to return to 1WTC using the VHF master antenna that WNET now uses, but I think it has since expired.
> 
> WPIX had one too, but they never filed a modification to reflect the final layout and model used for the master antenna, and instead they increased their power from Empire.


According to the FTC reception maps WPIX 11.1 is broadcast from 1WTC not ESB!


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> According to the FTC reception maps WPIX 11.1 is broadcast from 1WTC not ESB!


The Federal Communications Commission records clearly state that WPIX transmits from ESB not 1WTC.

I would go by FCC and RabbitEars data over the Federal Trade Commission any day of the week!


----------



## Antenna Man PA

SnellKrell said:


> The Channel 7 signal from ESB is powerful and has been called a "Flame Thrower" by an engineer friend!


A flame thrower? More like a peashooter. I get more requests from people who have issues picking up ABC 7 than any other major network in the NYC area even with a high VHF capable antenna. In fact, I received an inquiry just this morning. They are in a fair to strong signal area with a Televes Dinova Mix that is high VHF capable. All channels are fine except ABC. If the signal is a "flame thrower" there's something causing it to be problematic in the area. Maybe noise or interference.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes, "Flame Thrower" - not my nomenclature, but from an R.F. Television Transmission Engineer who had
worked for one of the network owned stations in NY.


----------



## LenL

SnellKrell said:


> The Federal Communications Commission records clearly state that WPIX transmits from ESB not 1WTC.
> 
> I would go by FCC and RabbitEars data over the Federal Trade Commission any day of the week!


Actually I made a typo. The FCC reception maps show WPIX 11.1 at 1WTC.


----------



## SnellKrell

LenL said:


> Actually I made a typo. The FCC reception maps show WPIX 11.1 at 1WTC.


I don't know what map you're using, but here's the FCC's Technical Data information including a map for WPIX
and it clearly shows the transmission location as the "Empire State Building" with the name of the building clearly
written out.

Facility Details « Licensing and Management System Admin « FCC

 Also, never question Trip's information!


----------



## LenL

I was using the below. So plug in you address and see what comes up for WPIX. When I do for my address it show the location as 1WTC based on the coordinates etc..









DTV Reception Maps







www.fcc.gov


----------



## SnellKrell

I tried it and it's wrong!


----------



## rhrisch

LenL said:


> I was using the below. So plug in you address and see what comes up for WPIX. When I do for my address it show the location as 1WTC based on the coordinates etc..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DTV Reception Maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fcc.gov


The signal quality given on that map are very different than those given under Signal Information on my TV. I moved the tip of the pointer to point at my house. However, are those numbers significant when it comes to quality when receiving a digital broadcast? The signal doesn't have to be strong to get perfect picture and sound. WLIW 1-4 comes in perfectly even though the map gives it a brown (weak) color.


----------



## timothy003

Antenna Man PA said:


> A flame thrower? More like a peashooter. I get more requests from people who have issues picking up ABC 7 than any other major network in the NYC area even with a high VHF capable antenna. In fact, I received an inquiry just this morning. They are in a fair to strong signal area with a Televes Dinova Mix that is high VHF capable. All channels are fine except ABC. If the signal is a "flame thrower" there's something causing it to be problematic in the area. Maybe noise or interference.


Is that why I can't pick up any VHF channels? I bought an RCA ANT1251 based on your review. Did I make a mistake?






RabbitEars.Info


RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.




www.rabbitears.info


----------



## Aero 1

never had an issue with rf7 in 15 years. its always this strong 15 miles west with a clearstream 5


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

hi, ch 21 , since last night only has 21.22, regular 21 and no 21-2, 21-3, 21-4, also ch 13 is blank and only shows 12-3- 12-6 i think from last night on my tv , is there work going on at WTC? this is not reception issue, could this be work on rf 21 wedw that they are supposed to have from ESB?


----------



## KyL416

IT'S ME TOO said:


> hi, ch 21 , since last night only has 21.22, regular 21 and no 21-2, 21-3, 21-4, also ch 13 is blank and only shows 12-3- 12-6 i think from last night on my tv , is there work going on at WTC? this is not reception issue, could this be work on rf 21 wedw that they are supposed to have from ESB?


The live bandscans are reporting just a 21.22 entry with no data for WLIW's RF 32 signal. I think it's a PSIP/TVCT configuration issue since the actual audio and video streams are still on the signal.

For WNET's RF 12 signal it's only reporting 13.1 WNET-HD and 13.2 Kids, no 14.1 WNDT or 46.1 WMBQ.


WEDW's work will have nothing to do with WLIW. They're on RF 21 from Trumbull (and also ESB by the end of the year), WLIW's on RF 32 from 1WTC.


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

OK thanks, i once saw this a few years ago, same thing 21.22 only and nothing on 13-1 and the 14 and 46 channel, and the reason i thought about wedw 21 , i know from esb and other from wtc , but i thought maybe they had to stop for awhile at wtc , for signal issues.


----------



## Brian in CT

timothy003 said:


> Is that why I can't pick up any VHF channels? I bought an RCA ANT1251 based on your review. Did I make a mistake?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RabbitEars.Info
> 
> 
> RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rabbitears.info


As long as the rabbit ears portion of the antenna is extended out (for optimal VHF reception), that model should be able to receive any TV station listed as "good" in your RabbitEars results table. If you're not receiving any VHF stations, but get all the UHF ones well, there are two likely reasons for this.

First: Do you live in a concrete or cinderblock building? If so, then you're going to have to find a west facing window to put your antenna in front of. VHF TV signals are mostly blocked by those materials. For an indoor antenna, the materials the signal has to pass through can make a big difference in reception. For example, glass and wood will only slightly affect signal strength, while aluminum siding will practically kill any signal. Brick is somewhere in the middle.

Second: Do you have any electronic "gizmos" located near your antenna setup? Cheap LED bulbs, certain computer monitors, security cameras, and power inverters are among the items that can cause enough RF noise to cause VHF TV signals not to decode. If this is the case, you'll have to start turning stuff off (or unplugging things) while trying to tune in a VHF station you should receive until you find the culprit.

There are other less likely reasons for the situation you're in, but I don't want to turn this post into a thesis. I hope the above information helps.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Off topic a little bit. But how the hell does my 1 and a half year old Hisense TV die???!! I couldn't believe it! I shlept it to a local repair shop, I was so sure it will be a simple cheap fix. But he told me the LED lights need to be replaced, so it will take a week to order it, and $200 for fix. I told him to forget it. I just went to Best Buy and bought a new one for $300. This time I paid the $70 extra for a 5 year warrantee. But I also ended up with a not Android TV for the first time. I got a Toshiba (55") Fire TV. And I gotta say, comparing My old Android Tv to Fire TV. The Fire TV is WAY WAY better n nice looking. I wasn't really impressed with the Android OS. I wonder if their new Google TV is better. But I really love the Fire TV OS. 
I'm just pissed. How do LED Lights burn out in less than 2 years?? That makes no sense! Maybe I'll take it to another shop for another opinion before I throw it out in the garbage


----------



## timothy003

Brian in CT said:


> As long as the rabbit ears portion of the antenna is extended out (for optimal VHF reception), that model should be able to receive any TV station listed as "good" in your RabbitEars results table. If you're not receiving any VHF stations, but get all the UHF ones well, there are two likely reasons for this.
> 
> First: Do you live in a concrete or cinderblock building? If so, then you're going to have to find a west facing window to put your antenna in front of. VHF TV signals are mostly blocked by those materials. For an indoor antenna, the materials the signal has to pass through can make a big difference in reception. For example, glass and wood will only slightly affect signal strength, while aluminum siding will practically kill any signal. Brick is somewhere in the middle.
> 
> Second: Do you have any electronic "gizmos" located near your antenna setup? Cheap LED bulbs, certain computer monitors, security cameras, and power inverters are among the items that can cause enough RF noise to cause VHF TV signals not to decode. If this is the case, you'll have to start turning stuff off (or unplugging things) while trying to tune in a VHF station you should receive until you find the culprit.
> 
> There are other less likely reasons for the situation you're in, but I don't want to turn this post into a thesis. I hope the above information helps.


Bingo! After turning off the monitor, PC, AP, router, and ONT, I was able to pick up WPIX, WABC, and even a bit of WNET. UHF signal quality improved significantly as well.

I'm surprised. It seems like anything with a microprocessor is killing the signal. I can't switch off the network every time I watch TV...


----------



## ansky212

Joseph Rubin said:


> Off topic a little bit. But how the hell does my 1 and a half year old Hisense TV die???!! I couldn't believe it! I shlept it to a local repair shop, I was so sure it will be a simple cheap fix. But he told me the LED lights need to be replaced, so it will take a week to order it, and $200 for fix. I told him to forget it. I just went to Best Buy and bought a new one for $300. This time I paid the $70 extra for a 5 year warrantee. But I also ended up with a not Android TV for the first time. I got a Toshiba (55") Fire TV. And I gotta say, comparing My old Android Tv to Fire TV. The Fire TV is WAY WAY better n nice looking. I wasn't really impressed with the Android OS. I wonder if their new Google TV is better. But I really love the Fire TV OS.
> I'm just pissed. How do LED Lights burn out in less than 2 years?? That makes no sense! Maybe I'll take it to another shop for another opinion before I throw it out in the garbage


Hisense is not a good TV brand. Stick to Sony or Samsung.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> Hisense is not a good TV brand. Stick to Sony or Samsung.


I guess I've learned this lesson the hard way. I thought it would be ok cause it's the same company as Toshiba and Sharp. But idk. A year and half is a huge disappointment by any standards.
This time I got a Toshiba, arguably not much better. Not I don't really care, cause honestly I went to the store planning to just buy another Hisense, but this time WITH the extended warrantee! I ended up paying $70 for a 5 year. If of only had that last time...


----------



## rhrisch

KyL416 said:


> The live bandscans are reporting just a 21.22 entry with no data for WLIW's RF 32 signal. I think it's a PSIP/TVCT configuration issue since the actual audio and video streams are still on the signal.
> 
> For WNET's RF 12 signal it's only reporting 13.1 WNET-HD and 13.2 Kids, no 14.1 WNDT or 46.1 WMBQ.
> 
> 
> WEDW's work will have nothing to do with WLIW. They're on RF 21 from Trumbull (and also ESB by the end of the year), WLIW's on RF 32 from 1WTC.


Currently I am getting 13-1, 13-2, 21-22, RF32-4, RF32-5, RF32-6. Gone are 14-1, 21-1, 21-2, 21-3, 21-4, 46-1. And I can't find any explanation of this online. Are you saying that 21-22 and RF32-4,5,6 are the old 21-1,2,3,4?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

rhrisch said:


> Currently I am getting 13-1, 13-2, 21-22, RF32-4, RF32-5, RF32-6. Gone are 14-1, 21-1, 21-2, 21-3, 21-4, 46-1. And I can't find any explanation of this online. Are you saying that 21-22 and RF32-4,5,6 are the old 21-1,2,3,4?


Omg ya me too! 14.1 gone. 21 is 21.22.
Wth?!
Problem is. My HDHR is only showing one 21.22 channel. Sucks


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Joseph Rubin said:


> Omg ya me too! 14.1 gone. 21 is 21.22.
> Wth?!


Can this be the beginning of the 3.0 switch?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Oh wow! Wmbc is indeed boosted!!! I get it now 95% strength 100% quality. Wow that's awesome! I love the Quest channel


----------



## kirk28

KyL416 said:


> The live bandscans are reporting just a 21.22 entry with no data for WLIW's RF 32 signal. I think it's a PSIP/TVCT configuration issue since the actual audio and video streams are still on the signal.
> 
> For WNET's RF 12 signal it's only reporting 13.1 WNET-HD and 13.2 Kids, no 14.1 WNDT or 46.1 WMBQ.
> 
> 
> WEDW's work will have nothing to do with WLIW. They're on RF 21 from Trumbull (and also ESB by the end of the year), WLIW's on RF 32 from 1WTC.


I noticed that my signals on the 3 channel 21s are much stronger - about 3 db stronger than usual.


----------



## stillonacrt

re:21.22 WLIW WNET PBS: "There was a catastrophic failure of one of our transmitters in Plainview. Our engineers have been working tirelessly with Verizon to repair and replace the damaged circuit which has disrupted programming on all of our channels. Unfortunately, when a problem like this occurs, our only alternative is to switch to the national PBS satellite feed and we are unable to manually display a message on screen with local updates. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to have the problem resolved soon. Thank you for our patience and support of public television."


----------



## Joseph Rubin

stillonacrt said:


> re:21.22 WLIW WNET PBS: "There was a catastrophic failure of one of our transmitters in Plainview. Our engineers have been working tirelessly with Verizon to repair and replace the damaged circuit which has disrupted programming on all of our channels. Unfortunately, when a problem like this occurs, our only alternative is to switch to the national PBS satellite feed and we are unable to manually display a message on screen with local updates. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to have the problem resolved soon. Thank you for our patience and support of public television."


Nice!! Finally some info.
Thanks so much!


----------



## rhrisch

stillonacrt said:


> re:21.22 WLIW WNET PBS: "There was a catastrophic failure of one of our transmitters in Plainview. Our engineers have been working tirelessly with Verizon to repair and replace the damaged circuit which has disrupted programming on all of our channels. Unfortunately, when a problem like this occurs, our only alternative is to switch to the national PBS satellite feed and we are unable to manually display a message on screen with local updates. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to have the problem resolved soon. Thank you for our patience and support of public television."


I don't understand. They moved to the WTC from Plainview quite some time ago. Wikipedia says that "the station also maintains a production studio at its former transmitter site in Plainview, New York".


----------



## Joseph Rubin

rhrisch said:


> I don't understand. They moved to the WTC from Plainview quite some time ago. Wikipedia says that "the station also maintains a production studio at its former transmitter site in Plainview, New York".


Plainview is probably where the Channel feed comes from. (Maybe that's the production studio?). The broadcasting obviously still works from 1wtc, they are just broadcasting the national feed from it instead of the local channels feed from Plainview.
I think! Lol


----------



## stillonacrt

Looks like NJ too. Not exactly sure what NJ PBS is (doesn't reach my location) but it tweeted: "NJ PBS and The WNET Group family of TV stations are experiencing system-wide transmission issues today due to a remote facility problem. Scheduled programming is affected in the tri-state area. We are working to resolve these issues quickly and apologize for any inconvenience."

Content-schedule aside, it's curious how a 2009-transition DTV STB only offers one channel, while a 2015-ish TV tuner "resolves" all the subchannels, albeit each identically designated as 21.22.

The transmitter and feed speculations are interesting. Maybe one of the OTA/FCC/transmitter gurus will stop by here.

Even if it takes a few days, guess it's still better than when, as a pre-DTV kid, used to watch horribly snowy and distorted analog shows from WLIW-21 which were unavailable here on WNET-13.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

My


stillonacrt said:


> Looks like NJ too. Not exactly sure what NJ PBS is (doesn't reach my location) but it tweeted: "NJ PBS and The WNET Group family of TV stations are experiencing system-wide transmission issues today due to a remote facility problem. Scheduled programming is affected in the tri-state area. We are working to resolve these issues quickly and apologize for any inconvenience."
> 
> Content-schedule aside, it's curious how a 2009-transition DTV STB only offers one channel, while a 2015-ish TV tuner "resolves" all the subchannels, albeit each identically designated as 21.22.
> 
> The transmitter and feed speculations are interesting. Maybe one of the OTA/FCC/transmitter gurus will stop by here.
> 
> Even if it takes a few days, guess it's still better than when, as a pre-DTV kid, used to watch horribly snowy and distorted analog shows from WLIW-21 which were unavailable here on WNET-13.


My HDHR is also only showing one channel 21.22. I guess the tuner thinks the others are repeats of the same channel. So it's only shows one. My regular TV tuner, and my CM Stream+ are all showing the 4x 21.22


----------



## bill.k

KyL416 said:


> The live bandscans are reporting just a 21.22 entry with no data for WLIW's RF 32 signal. I think it's a PSIP/TVCT configuration issue since the actual audio and video streams are still on the signal. For WNET's RF 12 signal it's only reporting 13.1 WNET-HD and 13.2 Kids, no 14.1 WNDT or 46.1 WMBQ. WEDW's work will have nothing to do with WLIW. They're on RF 21 from Trumbull (and also ESB by the end of the year), WLIW's on RF 32 from 1WTC.


 I'm not getting WLIW 21 stations, nor WNET 14.1, but am seeing 21.22. I'm just a homeowner. I was afraid it was my antennae or my TV. But it sounds like the broadcast is the problem, yes? [Sorry to butt in... I googled the stations and landed on your blog]


----------



## Joseph Rubin

bill.k said:


> I'm not getting WLIW 21 stations, nor WNET 14.1, but am seeing 21.22. I'm just a homeowner. I was afraid it was my antennae or my TV. But it sounds like the broadcast is the problem, yes? [Sorry to butt in... I googled the stations and landed on your blog]


re:21.22 WLIW WNET PBS: "There was a catastrophic failure of one of our transmitters in Plainview. Our engineers have been working tirelessly with Verizon to repair and replace the damaged circuit which has disrupted programming on all of our channels. Unfortunately, when a problem like this occurs, our only alternative is to switch to the national PBS satellite feed and we are unable to manually display a message on screen with local updates. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to have the problem resolved soon. Thank you for our patience and support of public television."


----------



## KyL416

WNET and WLIW are both showing PBS's national feed.

WLIW's on air signal has the audio and video streams for Create and World showing their national feeds, but they aren't mapped to a virtual channel number. The audio and video streams for All Arts is also showing the PBS national feed.

NJ PBS's regular programming is airing without a logo, but their webstream is showing the PBS national feed.


----------



## ughAudio

KyL416 said:


> The live bandscans are reporting just a 21.22 entry with no data for WLIW's RF 32 signal. I think it's a PSIP/TVCT configuration issue since the actual audio and video streams are still on the signal.
> 
> For WNET's RF 12 signal it's only reporting 13.1 WNET-HD and 13.2 Kids, no 14.1 WNDT or 46.1 WMBQ.
> 
> WEDW's work will have nothing to do with WLIW. They're on RF 21 from Trumbull (and also ESB by the end of the year), WLIW's on RF 32 from 1WTC.


Thank you for this information KyL416!

Was wondering what happened to WLIW the other night:


----------



## KyL416

WNET, WNDT-CD, WLIW and WMBQ-CD are all back to normal


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> WNET, WNDT-CD, WLIW and WMBQ-CD are all back to normal


Yuuuup! I just did a rescan. All is back to normal.
Thanks KyL


----------



## ansky212

WEDW has once again submitted another modification for their DTS. This time it's an amendment to 
increase the ERP.






Licensing and Management System


Licensing and Management System




enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov


----------



## rhrisch

KyL416 said:


> WNET, WNDT-CD, WLIW and WMBQ-CD are all back to normal


Me too. However, I also still have 21-2, 21-3, and 21-4 duplicates at respectively RF32-4, RF32-5 and RF32-6. I am not complaining; just confused. 😗


----------



## KyL416

You probably have to do a full rescan to clear the 32-x entries from your tuner's memory.

When WLIW had the issues, the streams for Create, World and All Arts were still in their OTA signal but with no virtual channel mapping, so some tuners stored them as their RF-ProgramID.


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

ansky212 said:


> WEDW has once again submitted another modification for their DTS. This time it's an amendment to
> increase the ERP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Licensing and Management System
> 
> 
> Licensing and Management System
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov


hi , is this for the WEDW from the ESB in NYC, or for the connetecut site? and if yes or no about when will the ESB WEDW beready to broadcast? thanks!


----------



## Brian in CT

timothy003 said:


> Bingo! After turning off the monitor, PC, AP, router, and ONT, I was able to pick up WPIX, WABC, and even a bit of WNET. UHF signal quality improved significantly as well.
> 
> I'm surprised. It seems like anything with a microprocessor is killing the signal. I can't switch off the network every time I watch TV...


Sorry about your situation. If you have an attic, you could put a modest antenna up there and hope it's outside of the "cloud of RF noise" caused by your electronic devices. You would also need RG-6 coaxial cable and a way to thread it down from your attic. It basically comes down to how bad you want good reception verses how much money you're willing to spend to get it.


----------



## timothy003

Brian in CT said:


> Sorry about your situation. If you have an attic, you could put a modest antenna up there and hope it's outside of the "cloud of RF noise" caused by your electronic devices. You would also need RG-6 coaxial cable and a way to thread it down from your attic. It basically comes down to how bad you want good reception verses how much money you're willing to spend to get it.


Thanks. That's good advice. Sadly, it's an apartment building that doesn't allow antennas for aesthetic reasons, even though you can't see the chimney from the street. No balcony, so OTARD can't save me either. My only options are cable or satellite. (Yes, there are like half a dozen satellite dishes poking out above the roofline.)


----------



## Brian in CT

timothy003 said:


> My only options are cable or satellite. (Yes, there are like half a dozen satellite dishes poking out above the roofline.)


The fact that your landlord allows satellite dishes and not OTA antennas is messed up. The antenna you would need is small compared to the large one I have on my roof. Too bad.


----------



## LenL

Then there is the problem of grounding it adequately!


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Just got a new TV, ATSC 3.0. Did the channel scan and it detected NO "nextgen" stations. Rabbitears.info shows only ONE ATSC station here, AND it's a Korean one!. Seriously, how come in this top 2 media markets we have little to no examples of ATSC broadcasts?


----------



## KyL416

The only reason why WNYZ-LD is broadcasting in ATSC 3.0 because it's the only way they could continue their Franken FM programming on 87.7 FM after last summer's analog cutoff for LPTV stations.

The ATSC 3.0 rollout is strictly voluntary, and the big proponents of ATSC 3.0 are Sinclair, who doesn't have any NYC stations, and Nexstar, who didn't have a NYC station until late 2020, along with Scripps (who has no plans to convert any of their recently acquired Ion stations like WPXN), and Tegna and Gray who also don't have any stations in NYC. NYC is far from the only major market that has yet to launch real ATSC 3.0 services, Chicago, Philly, San Francisco, Minneapolis, Miami, Cleveland and San Diego don't either, while Boston is just a LPTV station.


----------



## SnellKrell

Let's also include the WNET Group - WNET, WLIW and the New Jersey Public Broadcasting network.

Work is currently being done on WNET's and WLIW's transmission facilities on 1WTC to implement ATSC 3.0.

WNET will transmit stations' ATSC 1.0 signals and WLIW will handle the ATSC 3.0 broadcasts.

There have been estimates for ATSC 3.0 from the WNET Group to be up and running by the end of the year.

Also, the comment about Nexstar not having a NYC station is legally true, but not really the case.

Mission is the legal holder of the license for WPIX, but in reality Mission is nothing more than a "Ghost."

It's management comes from Nexstar; it runs/manages WPIX and other "Mission" stations.

In fact, last week's local primary debate among congressional candidates on WPIX had the copyright at
the end of the broadcast credit - Nexstar Media!


----------



## KyL416

SnellKrell said:


> Also, the comment about Nexstar not having a NYC station is legally true


Read the comment again. I said Nexstar has one, they just didn't have it until late 2020 when they exercised their option to have their shell company Mission purchase it:


KyL416 said:


> Nexstar, who didn't have a NYC station until late 2020


And even then, that's just one station, so Nexstar can't go at it alone like they did in markets where Nexstar and/or Mission have multiple stations. Like in LA they partnered with Fox who has a duopoly to spread their stations out with Nexstar hosting the primary of the Fox station that converted and the other Fox station hosting all of its subchannels. Fox has a duopoly in NYC too, but WWOR is in a spectrum sharing deal with WRNN which prevents them from repeating that same arrangement here.


Yes, WNET's and WLIW's parent company issued an announcement about ATSC 3.0, but like mentioned earlier in the thread when it was first brought up, with all the contradictions and incorrect technical information it was clearly written up by their marketing staff and not the engineering staff so it shouldn't be treated as NYC's final deployment plan until the contracts are signed and they and any other participating stations make their Next Gen filings with the FCC. WNET alone does not have the bandwidth to also host all of WLIW's channels unless they want to surrender the licenses for WNDT-CD and WMBQ-CD, so they'll need to have other broadcasters on board to implement that plan.


----------



## bill.k

_This is s bit off topic, but maybe you'll indulge me... I just heard of ATSC today..._

Does a typical TV tuner receive EITHER legacy stations or NextGen? Or do new NextGen TVs receive BOTH legacy AND NextGen stations?


----------



## KyL416

A NextGen tv will pick up both ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0 stations.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Joseph Rubin said:


> Yuuuup! I just did a rescan. All is back to normal.
> Thanks KyL


After half an hour with Samsung tech support, I can NOT do a rescan by their instructions (the Auo item was grayed out, there is no specific "rescan" button", what was suggested is a factory reset if the TV... I have to say after all the **** I have done so far... and still don't know if that will allow me to recan channels (that have already been scanned).


----------



## ughAudio

Tropo is so weird......

WMBC - RF18/497MHz (and subchannels) have been the strongest for me outside of Philly for the past few days, often exceeding WCBS @36 - 605MHz which is always there even with the leaves. WMBC was rarely received even during WInter: it's an almost impossible frequency/power.

It has been interesting to watch some Chinese soap operas and news.


----------



## ughAudio

WLIW's "All Arts" station became a disappointment.

Bummer 'cause it seems like they dropped all of their nice retro/vintage classical/opera that I saw last Fall:


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ughAudio said:


> Tropo is so weird......
> 
> WMBC - RF18/497MHz (and subchannels) have been the strongest for me outside of Philly for the past few days, often exceeding WCBS @36 - 605MHz which is always there even with the leaves. WMBC was rarely received even during WInter: it's an almost impossible frequency/power.
> 
> It has been interesting to watch some Chinese soap operas and news.


Ya, they moved from the ESB to 1wtc. So the signal did indeed become a lot stronger. I don't believe tropo has anything to do with this one


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Riverside_Guy said:


> After half an hour with Samsung tech support, I can NOT do a rescan by their instructions (the Auo item was grayed out, there is no specific "rescan" button", what was suggested is a factory reset if the TV... I have to say after all the **** I have done so far... and still don't know if that will allow me to recan channels (that have already been scanned).


Try watch this video. Seems to deal with your issue also on a Samsung TV... Worth a watch ..






Hope it helps


----------



## kirk28

ughAudio said:


> WLIW's "All Arts" station became a disappointment.
> 
> Bummer 'cause it seems like they dropped all of their nice retro/vintage classical/opera that I saw last Fall:
> 
> View attachment 3324729


I see a lot of opera when I check out what's on. Have you checked their schedule? Also they have some shows on demand.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

So my second scan found "0" NextGen stations. Is there any way I can manually tune it (have a Samsung QN90B)?


----------



## fri1038

Riverside_Guy said:


> So my second scan found "0" NextGen stations. Is there any way I can manually tune it (have a Samsung QN90B)?


You mentioned yourself a few posts back there is only one ATSC 3.0 channel in your area. It's low power and low-VHF (appropriate antenna needed) on RF6 at that.

Just enter "6" on the TV remote and it should tune in if there is any signal present, if your Samsung is like mine. (Provided there is no virtual channel 6 on some other broadcast channel already programmed.)


----------



## KyL416

Are you in range of WNYZ-LD's signal and are you using a full band antenna capable of picking up VHF-lo signals? It's highly directional to protect WPVI in Philly and transmits from the old Citigroup building in Long Island City, so most people west of Queens won't be able to get it, while people in the yellow and red zones east of Queens will need a stronger antenna than what would otherwise be required to pickup the NYC stations in those areas.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

fri1038 said:


> You mentioned yourself a few posts back there is only one ATSC 3.0 channel in your area. It's low power and low-VHF (appropriate antenna needed) on RF6 at that.
> 
> Just enter "6" on the TV remote and it should tune in if there is any signal present, if your Samsung is like mine. (Provided there is no virtual channel 6 on some other broadcast channel already programmed.)


All I got was the solar remote that has about 3-4 buttons for the whole UI. It seems I can NOT go directly to any station by a keypad, but I can tune with Alexa voice command (which can be ignored on occasion). Unfortunately Tizen is a utter mess, Samsung should be ashamed of themselves.


----------



## ansky212

Riverside_Guy said:


> All I got was the solar remote that has about 3-4 buttons for the whole UI. It seems I can NOT go directly to any station by a keypad, but I can tune with Alexa voice command (which can be ignored on occasion). Unfortunately Tizen is a utter mess, Samsung should be ashamed of themselves.


I have a newer Samsung TV and it came with that same remote with no number keys. I have an older Samsung with the numbered remote and it works fine on the newer TV. You can probably find one on Ebay for cheap.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

FWIW, in the EU, Samsung packs BOTH remotes with the QN90B. I wonder which specific models of remotes works on thee QN90B? Veering too far OT it seems!


----------



## ALP

I searched back in the thread some, however, if this has been asked and answered please point me to the right post. I have noticed a drop off in signal strength from WNBC ( Channel 4.1 ). I have always had trouble with low signal strength on Fox ( Channel 5.1 ) and now WNBC is as bad or worse than Fox. Anyone know what might be going on with WNBC? Did it get thrown off of the upper antenna?


----------



## SnellKrell

ALP said:


> I searched back in the thread some, however, if this has been asked and answered please point me to the right post. I have noticed a drop off in signal strength from WNBC ( Channel 4.1 ). I have always had trouble with low signal strength on Fox ( Channel 5.1 ) and now WNBC is as bad or worse than Fox. Anyone know what might be going on with WNBC? Did it get thrown off of the upper antenna?


WNBC hasn't displayed any power problems since the week of July 25th.

Also, the station hasn't had its main signal (WNJU) on the top UHF antenna for years - it normally uses the lower UHF section.


----------



## ALP

SnellKrell said:


> WNBC hasn't displayed any power problems since the week of July 25th.
> 
> Also, the station hasn't had its main signal (WNJU) on the top UHF antenna for years - it normally uses the lower UHF section.


I'm confused?  Isn't WNBC the main signal and not WNJU? When I punch in Channel 4.1 I get WNBC not WNJU.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

There was


ALP said:


> I searched back in the thread some, however, if this has been asked and answered please point me to the right post. I have noticed a drop off in signal strength from WNBC ( Channel 4.1 ). I have always had trouble with low signal strength on Fox ( Channel 5.1 ) and now WNBC is as bad or worse than Fox. Anyone know what might be going on with WNBC? Did it get thrown off of the upper antenna?


There was a conversation here a couple of weeks ago only about issues with NBC. so I believe that's been resolved. I checked my signal now, it's 100%. Where as Fox5 is 95%. So for me NBC is stronger than Fox


----------



## KyL416

ALP said:


> I'm confused?  Isn't WNBC the main signal and not WNJU? When I punch in Channel 4.1 I get WNBC not WNJU.


WNBC sold their spectrum in the auction, all of the 4.x and 47.x channels come from WNJU's RF 35 signal.


----------



## ALP

Joseph Rubin said:


> There was
> 
> There was a conversation here a couple of weeks ago only about issues with NBC. so I believe that's been resolved. I checked my signal now, it's 100%. Where as Fox5 is 95%. So for me NBC is stronger than Fox


Where are you located and what antenna do you use? I'm 31 miles north of WTC1, with a big Winegard Yagi that is about 12 year old.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ALP said:


> Where are you located and what antenna do you use? I'm 31 miles north of WTC1, with a big Winegard Yagi that is about 12 year old.


I'm a lot closer than you. I'm in Brooklyn. So about 10 miles from wtc. And I'm using a Winegard (HD7000r).
But my Fox 5 has always been at 95% strength. 
But like I said my NBC is at 100%


----------



## citysoundman

I'm in Queens, just got an inexpensive $20 Channel Master OTA antenna for my old Samsung TV. (I dropped Spectrum cable so hoping to get the standard OTA channels). I did a scan and seem to get everything I expect, _except_ for WNET 13 (PBS) which I really want! I think WNET is in Newark? Shouldn't I be able to pick it up no problem?


----------



## LenL

citysoundman said:


> I'm in Queens, just got an inexpensive $20 Channel Master OTA antenna for my old Samsung TV. (I dropped Spectrum cable so hoping to get the standard OTA channels). I did a scan and seem to get everything I expect, _except_ for WNET 13 (PBS) which I really want! I think WNET is in Newark? Shouldn't I be able to pick it up no problem?


what antenna model? Do you get 7.1 and 11.1 (WABC AND WPIX)? Did you do a channel rescan lately?


----------



## kirk28

citysoundman said:


> I'm in Queens, just got an inexpensive $20 Channel Master OTA antenna for my old Samsung TV. (I dropped Spectrum cable so hoping to get the standard OTA channels). I did a scan and seem to get everything I expect, _except_ for WNET 13 (PBS) which I really want! I think WNET is in Newark? Shouldn't I be able to pick it up no problem?


PBS (wnet) is broadcasting from One World Trade Center.


----------



## ansky212

citysoundman said:


> I'm in Queens, just got an inexpensive $20 Channel Master OTA antenna for my old Samsung TV. (I dropped Spectrum cable so hoping to get the standard OTA channels). I did a scan and seem to get everything I expect, _except_ for WNET 13 (PBS) which I really want! I think WNET is in Newark? Shouldn't I be able to pick it up no problem?


WNET broadcasts from WTC but their power is significantly weaker than other WTC channels like WNBC and WCBS. I'm 10 miles outside the city and I often get pixelation on WNET especially during bad weather.


----------



## citysoundman

LenL said:


> what antenna model? Do you get 7.1 and 11.1 (WABC AND WPIX)? Did you do a channel rescan lately?


I'm in an apartment so I got the indoor antenna model is FLATenna 35. They also make a model 50 (it says 50 miles range, vs 35) I guess it has an amplifier in it. Do you think this would make a difference for me?
I do have a terrace but it would be a PITA to get the cable out there.

And yea I do get 7.1 & 11.1.

Amazon also sells a cheap amplifier maybe this is a solution?



ansky212 said:


> WNET broadcasts from WTC but their power is significantly weaker than other WTC channels like WNBC and WCBS. I'm 10 miles outside the city and I often get pixelation on WNET especially during bad weather.


Thanks for the info!


----------



## Antenna Man PA

citysoundman said:


> I'm in an apartment so I got the indoor antenna model is FLATenna 35. They also make a model 50 (it says 50 miles range, vs 35) I guess it has an amplifier in it.


Did you try the antenna without the amplifier? I found that sometimes an amplifier will make reception worse with an indoor antenna. If you still can't get the channel, what I would suggest is to order a cheap digital converter box, connect your antenna to it, go to the menu, then manual search, and set it to channel 12 which is the RF channel WNET broadcasts on. Move the antenna around until something is locked in, press "OK" to add the channel, and then press the info button twice to bring up the signal meter to find the best spot for the antenna. Otherwise, you're just moving the antenna around, running endless channel scans, and hoping for the best. 

You can find instructions on how to use the manual search on the DTV Box at about 2 minutes into this video.


----------



## LenL

Antenna Man PA said:


> Did you try the antenna without the amplifier? I found that sometimes an amplifier will make reception worse with an indoor antenna. If you still can't get the channel, what I would suggest is to order a cheap digital converter box, connect your antenna to it, go to the menu, then manual search, and set it to channel 12 which is the RF channel WNET broadcasts on. Move the antenna around until something is locked in, press "OK" to add the channel, and then press the info button twice to bring up the signal meter to find the best spot for the antenna. Otherwise, you're just moving the antenna around, running endless channel scans, and hoping for the best.
> 
> You can find instructions on how to use the manual search on the DTV Box at about 2 minutes into this video.


I think this Flat Antenna 35 does not have an amp.


----------



## ansky212

I'm 10 miles outside NYC with an outdoor antenna pointed directly at WTC. I'm only getting WNET at 58% strength and 65% signal quality. For comparison, I'm getting WPIX at 100% / 100%. WNET is just a poor signal in general.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

ansky212 said:


> I'm 10 miles outside NYC with an outdoor antenna pointed directly at WTC. I'm only getting WNET at 58% strength and 65% signal quality. For comparison, I'm getting WPIX at 100% / 100%. WNET is just a poor signal in general.


That is kinda surprising to me!! What a whacky system it is.... I'm in Brooklyn. I just checked. I get WNET at 100% Strength, 100% Quality. And it's always been steady and strong. Where WPIX I always had a little trouble with, but lately it's been good. Right now I'm getting it, 89% Strength, 100% Quality. And it's nice n stable picture. But WNET is definitely stronger by me


----------



## LenL

Joseph Rubin said:


> That is kinda surprising to me!! What a whacky system it is.... I'm in Brooklyn. I just checked. I get WNET at 100% Strength, 100% Quality. And it's always been steady and strong. Where WPIX I always had a little trouble with, but lately it's been good. Right now I'm getting it, 89% Strength, 100% Quality. And it's nice n stable picture. But WNET is definitely stronger by me


Not really since in Brooklyn aren't you closer to the 1WTC than the ESB so it makes sense that WNET is better for you.


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> I'm 10 miles outside NYC with an outdoor antenna pointed directly at WTC. I'm only getting WNET at 58% strength and 65% signal quality. For comparison, I'm getting WPIX at 100% / 100%. WNET is just a poor signal in general.



You are 10 miles out but where are you? And what equipment are you using? What is between you and 1 WTC?

I am 30 miles west, northwest of 1WTC and get WNET better than you do.


----------



## ALP

Are all the major broadcast channels ( ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, CW, PBS ) on 1WTC now? In comparing reception wiith a few OTA people I know in Westchester what comes in powerful and clean is highly dependent on location.


----------



## KyL416

No. ABC (RF 7), CW (RF 11) and Univision/UniMas (RF 26) are on the Empire State Building, while MeTV (RF 3) and WNYE (RF 24) are on 4 Times Square.


----------



## Brian in CT

citysoundman said:


> I'm in an apartment so I got the indoor antenna model is FLATenna 35. They also make a model 50 (it says 50 miles range, vs 35) I guess it has an amplifier in it. Do you think this would make a difference for me?
> I do have a terrace but it would be a PITA to get the cable out there.
> 
> And yea I do get 7.1 & 11.1.


Those flat antennas don't do well with VHF TV signals. You are probably receiving WABC & WPIX because you are so close to the ESB (and their power output is more than WNET). If you can't find a place in your apartment where you can receive WNET consistently with your current antenna, you could try an old-fashioned rabbit ears and loop antenna. They are still being made and have a typical range with ATSC 1.0 signals of 15-20 miles. Keep any receipts. Your problem with WNET could be multipath. Especially if you are surrounded by other tall apartment buildings that could cause a signal to bounce around. The other 1WTC TV signals you get could be strong enough to decode in spite of this.


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> You are 10 miles out but where are you? And what equipment are you using? What is between you and 1 WTC?
> 
> I am 30 miles west, northwest of 1WTC and get WNET better than you do.


There is literally nothing between me and WTC. I'm in West Orange up on the mountain facing NYC. I have a clear view of the NYC skyline from my house. I don't know why WNET is weak when I get every other channel at 100%.


----------



## LenL

ansky212 said:


> There is literally nothing between me and WTC. I'm in West Orange up on the mountain facing NYC. I have a clear view of the NYC skyline from my house. I don't know why WNET is weak when I get every other channel at 100%.


I also don't understand since it is coming in 75/100 for me with NO preamp or distro amp and it is a 50 foot run from my Range Experts 1500 UHF/VHF roof mounted antenna to my first floor TV via the basement. I am 29 -30 miles away from 1WTC.


----------



## EricVanArsdale

Is anyone having issues with virtually every NYC station? Getting no signal at all to channels that never have issues like NBC and CBS, only signal at all is WMBC. I am in Hackettstown. (Also having NBC on in background while typing this its slowly starting to pick up something because its flashing to black and even pick up a few pixels. Now instead of no signal it says "scrambled".

Also on a sidenote, I've seen references to a PBS signal coming from Hackettstown and I see that it is technically under license but even living in the town of license I've never seen a signal from that channel. Sometimes when there is a weak signal you can tell the antenna is trying to pick it up because it takes a while before it blue screens, but with this it doesn't even try and its almost an instant blue screen no signal. Is this signal even being used?

Its obvious I'm fairly new to this lol. More of a fun hobby I'm picking up.

UPDATE: A little while after posting this NBC and CBS are back, but now WMBC is gone and other stations that are normally perfect quality are still gone like WLIW and WXPN.


----------



## LenL

I'd be interested in all of your equipment that you are using to pick up NY stations out where you are. Your issues night be tropo and weather related. I am 30 miles out to the west north west of 1WTC and have NO issues.


----------



## KyL416

EricVanArsdale said:


> I've seen references to a PBS signal coming from Hackettstown and I see that it is technically under license but even living in the town of license I've never seen a signal from that channel.


That's WNJB's translator W29EV-D. It's highly directional and comes from the opposite direction of all the NYC stations, plus because of the low height and terrain, portions of Hackettstown are in dead spots.


----------



## citysoundman

Antenna Man PA said:


> Did you try the antenna without the amplifier? I found that sometimes an amplifier will make reception worse with an indoor antenna. If you still can't get the channel, what I would suggest is to order a cheap digital converter box, connect your antenna to it, go to the menu, then manual search, and set it to channel 12 which is the RF channel WNET broadcasts on. Move the antenna around until something is locked in, press "OK" to add the channel, and then press the info button twice to bring up the signal meter to find the best spot for the antenna. Otherwise, you're just moving the antenna around, running endless channel scans, and hoping for the best.
> 
> You can find instructions on how to use the manual search on the DTV Box at about 2 minutes into this video.


Thanks Antenna Man! Good instructional video! I will order the converter box I love the built in signal monitor.
Hey do you think the Channel Master flat antenna I got is OK, or is there a better indoor antenna I can try?



LenL said:


> I think this Flat Antenna 35 does not have an amp.


Correct, no amp on this guy.


----------



## EricVanArsdale

LenL said:


> I'd be interested in all of your equipment that you are using to pick up NY stations out where you are. Your issues night be tropo and weather related. I am 30 miles out to the west north west of 1WTC and have NO issues.


The equipment is simply just one of those flat antennas. I know everyone says not to get those kind, and I totally understand why, but for my purposes of just playing around it does decent and was cheap. Most likely is just atmosphere because WLIW and Ion have come back and the only channel in the dark is WMBC, was just weird that any of these stations were having issues because they usually all come in perfectly.


----------



## LenL

EricVanArsdale said:


> The equipment is simply just one of those flat antennas. I know everyone says not to get those kind, and I totally understand why, but for my purposes of just playing around it does decent and was cheap. Most likely is just atmosphere because WLIW and Ion have come back and the only channel in the dark is WMBC, was just weird that any of these stations were having issues because they usually all come in perfectly.


 Well if you change your mind I have a spare cm4228 and a cm7777 preamp that you can have at a reasonable price and this equipment would do a much better job for you when you are done playing around and start to get serious!


----------



## rcodey

I'm in West Orange just off Walker road and have no problems with WNET . Same strength as WPIX and and stronger than WABC . I'm just on the western side of the mountain and using a Stellar VHF Hi antenna .


----------



## Trip in VA

So I see that WKOB-LD (RF13) is now operational. It's on 42-x, and is channel sharing host for WASA-LD on 24-x. Can anyone verify what programming is on those streams?

- Trip


----------



## KyL416

lol, I was just about to make the same post

WKOB-LD's RF 13 signal, that they are sharing with WASA-LD is now on the air from 1WTC. According to the live bandscans it signed on yesterday with this lineup:
24-1 WASA-LD (Estrella)
24-2 WASA-LD (Estrella News?)
24-3 WASA-LD (Estrella Games?)
42-1 WKOB-LD (Azteca America?)
42-2 WKOB-LD ?
42-3 WKOB-LD ?

Also, can anyone tell what W02CY-D is now doing on RF2, as HC2's website is clearly wrong since they say HC2's channels are on WASA's 24-x and Estrella (which isn't even one of their stations) is on WNYE's 25-1.


----------



## darkegg

Here is what's currently showing:

24.1 - Estrella TV (News & now showing a trivia show)
24.2 - Estrella TV dance in a loop
24.3 - infomercial for cookware - Forever Pans (same as 42.3)
42.1 - bein sports xtra (soccer: Paris SG vs Toulouse FC)
42.2 - bein sports xtra ñ (soccer: FB vs KSP)
42.3 - infomercial for cookware - Forever Pans (same as 24.3)


----------



## darkegg

Here is the TSReader output (rename the file to .htm).


----------



## Brian in CT

Dang it. I'm just a little too far away for reception of WKOB-LD. My signal strength is just slightly under the point in my meter to where the signal would decode.


----------



## KyL416

HC2 is going to have to make changes then to W02CY-D to give it their own unique major number, and update MVPD's who carry Azteca New York like Spectrum, DirecTV and Dish, since DirecTV channel 42 (who gets it via W02CY-D's OTA signal) is currently showing Azteca America with a top of the hour station ID that still says "Azteca New York 42.1 WKOB-LD". LocalBTV's NYC streams for the channels currently have WKOB's old lineup of Azteca NY HD, Daystar, SBN, Shop LC, Novelisima and Estrella SD, so they are also still pulling "WKOB" in via RF 2 instead of RF 13.

And unless HC2's paid programmer is also paying Estrella Media for airtime, 24.3 will have to switch to something else as HC2 only has the rights to program the 42.x channels on the shared signal. So maybe this is just a work in progress.

EDIT: I just spotted a W02CY-D 24 New York top of the hour graphic on LocalBTV's streams for Daystar, SBN, Shop LC and Novelisima, even though HC2 should not be using be using virtual 24 for any of their networks as that belongs to Estrella Media's WASA-LD. Their stream for Estrella TV has its own "WASA-LD Port Jervis NY Canal 24" graphic, while their stream for Azteca America has "Azteca New York 42.1 WKOB-LD" Hopefully someone in range with a full band setup can confirm what virtual numbers are really being used by RF 2.


----------



## frenchjoh51

ughAudio said:


> Tropo is so weird......
> 
> WMBC - RF18/497MHz (and subchannels) have been the strongest for me outside of Philly for the past few days, often exceeding WCBS @36 - 605MHz which is always there even with the leaves. WMBC was rarely received even during WInter: it's an almost impossible frequency/power.
> 
> It has been interesting to watch some Chinese soap operas and news.


I' ve also have been picking up wmbc outside of Philadelphia with an indoor antenna usually not until 10pm. Quest has had interesting ice fishingand gold mining programs on, and I can't pull in the low power Philly station that has Quest, so I'm glad to. get wmbc, even if its just occasionally.


----------



## KyL416

WMBC's RF 18 has an easier time reaching Philly with the slightest boost conditions because RF 17-18 are reserved for Land mobile in DC, which prevents any stations in the neighboring Harrisburg, Baltimore and Salisbury DMAs from using those RF numbers, so there are no co-channel stations coming from the opposite direction like there is for the other full power NYC UHF stations:
WNYE (RF 24) - WPHA-CD and WDPB
WWOR/WRNN (RF 25) - W25FG-D and WNUV
WFUT/WXTV (RF 26) - WQAV-CD and WBFF
WNYW (RF 27) - WPSJ-CD and WMAR
WLIW (RF 32) - WZPA-LD and WHP and WBOC
WPXN (RF 34) - WPPX (Normally this would have been blocked, but the then-PAX self agreed to accept the mutual interference to allow WPPX to move from the NJ/DE border to Roxborough)
WNJU/WNBC (RF 35) - WFPA-CD
WCBS (RF 36) - WMGM and WITF


----------



## ughAudio

frenchjoh51 said:


> I' ve also have been picking up wmbc outside of Philadelphia with an indoor antenna usually not until 10pm. Quest has had interesting ice fishingand gold mining programs on, and I can't pull in the low power Philly station that has Quest, so I'm glad to. get wmbc, even if its just occasionally.


An indoor antenna? EXCEPTIONAL! Cannot receive the Philly station either for QUEST so it's an interesting channel now received on WMBC.


----------



## ughAudio

KyL416 said:


> WMBC's RF 18 has an easier time reaching Philly with the slightest boost conditions because RF 17-18 are reserved for Land mobile in DC, which prevents any stations in the neighboring Harrisburg, Baltimore and Salisbury DMAs from using those RF numbers, so there are no co-channel stations coming from the opposite direction like there is for the other full power NYC UHF stations:
> <snip>
> WNJU/WNBC (RF 35) - WFPA-CD
> <snip>


For my reception/antenna, WMBC has wiped out RF35 from New York, and is now on par, signal-wise, with WCBS (RF 36). Since RF35/WNJU-WNBC basically replicated RF28/WCAU-NBC in the local market, I guess you can say it's a plus to have additional sources.

I've expressed this before on some prior posts, and I will reiterate that you *KyL416 *are a wealth of this knowledge and it is appreciated! The cramming of the MHz has made reception far difficult and your responses eliminated my confusion.


----------



## ughAudio

Antenna Man PA said:


> Did you try the antenna without the amplifier? I found that sometimes an amplifier will make reception worse with an indoor antenna.


Yep! Saw a lot of negative reviews on Ammazon when people lost channels over the years (when the amp overloaded their TV tuner) and they wondered what happened. Especially for people thinking it was going to bring in MORE channels from their outside antenna.


----------



## frenchjoh51

ughAudio said:


> An indoor antenna? EXCEPTIONAL! Cannot receive the Philly station either for QUEST so it's an interesting channel now received on WMBC.


yes, its only occasional, but it is happening more since wmbc changed towers. I think I benefit from signal refraction off a verylarge hill and not just tropo, as I can pull in wnbc 4 and wcbs 2 most of the time even midday.


----------



## ughAudio

kirk28 said:


> I see a lot of opera when I check out what's on. Have you checked their schedule?


Yeah, it's all current, boring stuff.

I mean, like that pic posted before from last Fall was Berganza recorded in B/W from'64. You could watch Toscanini conducting a Puccini or Verdi vintage excerpt live. Can't find anything like that now


----------



## ughAudio

Joseph Rubin said:


> Ya, they moved from the ESB to 1wtc. So the signal did indeed become a lot stronger. I don't believe tropo has anything to do with this one


THANX! You're right about the move. Explains my reception change.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Funny... I did a rescan on one of my Channel Master Stream+ boxes, and I received all the new channels 42's and 24's. But I figured I'll do the rescans on my other boxes later on. But I came home now and found that the new channels are already showing up on my HDHR Flex 4k. How is this possible? Does it do channel scans in the background periodically? Anyone know?


----------



## darkegg

24.2 now showing Estrella News 24-hours, and 42.2 is now 720p instead of 480i.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Funny that the picture on all these new channels are full of constant interference, even though the signal is perfectly strong.


----------



## KyL416

LocalBTV's streams that they pull from W02CY-D's RF2 signal changed today, their stream that had SBN is now showing Shop LC and their stream that had Estrella TV is now showing Novelisima, while the streams that previously had Shop LC and Novelisima are now dead. So it looks they might have also made changes today.

Azteca America on both LocalBTV and DirecTV channel 42 now flashes the same W02CY-D/24 station ID before it cuts to the usual Azteca New York WKOB-LD 42.1 graphic.

Unfortunately the NYC area live bandscans are either out of range of the RF 2 signal or don't have setups optimized for VHF lo reception to confirm what W02CY-D's new lineup. They did file to change their virtual number to 45 (last used in NYC by the now defunct WMUN-CD).

HC2 also needs to notify Dish, DirecTV and Spectrum that NYC's Azteca affiliation changed to W02CY-D 45.1 and tell the guide data providers that W02CY-D exists so the cable and sat providers have a source for the correct listings as eventually the guide data entries for WKOBLD will switch from Azteca New York to BeIN Sports Xtra. (And maybe pay the relatively cheap filing fee to give W02CY-D a custom callsign)


----------



## frenchjoh51

ughAudio said:


> For my reception/antenna, WMBC has wiped out RF35 from New York, and is now on par, signal-wise, with WCBS (RF 36). Since RF35/WNJU-WNBC basically replicated RF28/WCAU-NBC in the local market, I guess you can say it's a plus to have additional sources.
> 
> I've expressed this before on some prior posts, and I will reiterate that you *KyL416 *are a wealth of this knowledge and it is appreciated! The cramming of the MHz has made reception far difficult and your responses eliminated my confusion.


I also appreciate being able to.pull in both nbc stations as they've had local sports on the last couple weekends and sometimes that flips the .2 cozi temporarily to an nbc feed. good to have options to still watch Columbo!


----------



## Mediterraneo

We now have ~30* HD channels in our local market, which is impressive, considering the smaller number of available broadcast frequencies post-repack, and no ATSC 3.0 deployment. I predict this number will possibly double after ATSC 3.0 is deployed on several frequencies in the coming years. With the added bandwidth, we might also see more cable channels joining Oxygen and starting terrestrial broadcasts as well.

*Obviosly this number varies by your location in the market. I'm picking up 29 HD channels from Queens.


----------



## LenL

Mediterraneo said:


> We now have ~30* HD channels in our local market, which is impressive, considering the smaller number of available broadcast frequencies post-repack, and no ATSC 3.0 deployment. I predict this number will possibly double after ATSC 3.0 is deployed on several frequencies in the coming years. With the added bandwidth, we might also see more cable channels joining Oxygen and starting terrestrial broadcasts as well.
> 
> *Obviosly this number varies by your location in the market. I'm picking up 29 HD channels from Queens.



Really? I must have missed something. Please elaborate and identify the 30 channels for me.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

LenL said:


> Really? I must have missed something. Please elaborate and identify the 30 channels for me.


I believe I have 22. If I counted correct


----------



## KyL416

The following are in HD if you are in range and have a full band antenna strong enough to also pull in all the LPTV and Class A stations in the NYC area:
2.1 CBS
4.1 NBC
5.1 Fox
7.1 ABC
7.2 Localish
9.1 MyNet
11.1 CW
13.1 Thirteen
14.1 FNX
21.1 WLIW
21.4 All Arts
23.1 TBN Inspire
24.1 Estrella TV
24.2 Estrella News
25.1 NYC TV
25.3 CUNY
31.1 Ion
31.2 Bounce
33.1 MeTV
34.1 America Teve
34.2 ShopLC
41.1 Univision
42.1 beIN Sports Xtra
42.2 beIN Sports Xtra Espanol
43.1 Story
45.1 Azteca America
47.1 Telemundo
48.1 WRNN
50.1 NJ PBS
50.2 NHK World
54.1 TBN
55.1 WLNY
58.1 NJ PBS
58.2 NHK World
63.1 WMBC
68.1 UniMas


----------



## LenL

I was thinking in terms of "full" HD which is 1080p and there are NONE right now. Pretty much all of the channels especially the .1 listed have been 720p or 1080i for many years. So I don't really see anything impressive. As a matter of fact PQ has been either rather stagnant in the NY Metro area or because of the influx of subs taking a PQ hit. And the .2 and higher guys are not that good of 720p or 1080i as they were short changed.


----------



## KyL416

No one is doing true 1080p over the air. Even if they dropped all their subchannels, ATSC 1.0 doesn't have the bandwidth to support 1080p/60 via MPEG-2, and the network feeds and syndicated content all originate in either 1080i or 720p.

Even the markets that have 1080p ATSC 3.0 stations are just deinterlacing or upscaling those same 1080i or 720p feeds before they get to the viewer.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Sweet!!! Thunderbirds!!!!


----------



## KyL416

W31EF-D filed a license to cover for their RF 29 signal, once it's granted it will become W29FL-D.

Also, Daystar's application to purchase 32.x WXNY-LD (RF 23) was approved, so it will likely drop its current lineup in the near future for Daystar HD and Daystar en Espanol


LocalBTV finally switched from W02CY-D's RF 2 signal to WKOB-LD's RF 13 signal, although now they are only carrying WASA 24.2 and WKOB 42.3. The rest of LocalBTV's feeds are actually streams from other cities, for 42.1 they're reusing WPSJ-CD4 Philly, for 42.2 they're reusing KTVP-LD Phoenix.

WKOB 42.3 is actually Timeless TV, which is a mix of infomercials and public domain shows with a long form ad wrapped around it as the presenting sponsor.


----------



## ansky212

KyL416 said:


> W31EF-D filed a license to cover for their RF 29 signal, once it's granted it will become W29FL-D.


Nothing on the air yet. But since they will be on RF29, that will eliminate any ability to pick up WLNY (also RF29) in northeast NJ. I can usually pick up WLNY here at night or in the early morning hours.


----------



## KyL416

HC2 finally updated their subchannel listing:
W02CY-D:
45.1 Azteca America HD
45.2 Daystar
45.3 Sonlife
45.4 Timeless TV
45.5 Shop LC
45.6 Novelisima

WKOB-LD (Shared with 24.x WASA-LD on RF 13):
42.1 BeIN Sports Xtra HD
42.2 BeIN Sports Xtra Espanol HD
42.3 Timeless TV


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Forgive if this has been discussed, but I have a reception issue. I live about 6ish miles north of the WTC. Top floor (10 stories) facing south with no buildings actually blocking my view south (nearest 12 story in my line of sight a a 12 story a full block away). I should be golden for everything. Oh, I am sing one of those flat antenna, stick at the top of one of my south facing windows. Just got a new TV so theoretically a much better tuner than my 10 year old LCD (the irony is it's an ATSC 3.0 tuner with nothing in NYC to even look at). And yes, I have done several channel scans.

My problem is with PIX, channel 11. Sometimes I get as perfect a picture as the others and sometimes all I get is a black screen (not snow or a image tearing up). Any idea how come?


----------



## trailblazer

Riverside_Guy said:


> Forgive if this has been discussed, but I have a reception issue. I live about 6ish miles north of the WTC. Top floor (10 stories) facing south with no buildings actually blocking my view south (nearest 12 story in my line of sight a a 12 story a full block away). I should be golden for everything. Oh, I am sing one of those flat antenna, stick at the top of one of my south facing windows. Just got a new TV so theoretically a much better tuner than my 10 year old LCD (the irony is it's an ATSC 3.0 tuner with nothing in NYC to even look at). And yes, I have done several channel scans.
> 
> My problem is with PIX, channel 11. Sometimes I get as perfect a picture as the others and sometimes all I get is a black screen (not snow or a image tearing up). Any idea how come?


WPIX transmits off the Empire State Building, Not the WTC.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Riverside_Guy said:


> Forgive if this has been discussed, but I have a reception issue. I live about 6ish miles north of the WTC. Top floor (10 stories) facing south with no buildings actually blocking my view south (nearest 12 story in my line of sight a a 12 story a full block away). I should be golden for everything. Oh, I am sing one of those flat antenna, stick at the top of one of my south facing windows. Just got a new TV so theoretically a much better tuner than my 10 year old LCD (the irony is it's an ATSC 3.0 tuner with nothing in NYC to even look at). And yes, I have done several channel scans.
> 
> My problem is with PIX, channel 11. Sometimes I get as perfect a picture as the others and sometimes all I get is a black screen (not snow or a image tearing up). Any idea how come?


Like the response before my mentioned, it's broadcasting from The Empire State building, so pointing the antenna towards that. Could improve it.
But it's also worth mentioning that channel 11 is a Hi VHF channel, and the cheap flat antennas usually are only UHF antennas. So adding a Vhf Rod will probably greatly improve it.
Good luck


----------



## SnellKrell

Joseph Rubin said:


> Like the response before my mentioned, it's broadcasting from The Empire State building, so pointing the antenna towards that. Could improve it.
> But it's also worth mentioning that channel 11 is a Hi VHF channel, and the cheap flat antennas usually are only UHF antennas. So adding a Vhf Rod will probably greatly improve it.
> Good luck


Totally agree that the llat antennas look better than they work.

I know that no two situations are the same and that one person's set up won't necessarily match someone else's needs.

Nevertheless, here goes with what works for me.

I live in the East 90s between 2nd and 3rd, 11th Floor apartment facing south. I'm surrounded by taller buildings!

I use a -
*Winegard FreeVision FV-30BB *
It fits on a windowsill - 13" High, 21" Wide, 5.5" Deep.

Is it perfect, No. But it works very well for me.

Although Winegard, for some reason, has stopped making the FreeVision, it' can be found on the Internet.

It's worth a try.

It's picture is the avatar I use.

Wish you luck.


----------



## LenL

I posted this elsewhere too but just in case anyone else had issues watching the Jets game Sunday (besides the results):

So I had something strange happen Sunday. My local CBS RF36 2.1 was breaking up reception during the NY Jets game. I'm using an Insane Gain xps1500 UHF/VHF antenna feeding from the roof into the basement and up to my first floor TV. It feeds a powered The PCT-MA2 passive return RF amplifier with 15db of gain which I then split with a splitter to the TV and DVR. So I thought maybe it is a problem with 5G interference? So I add in my Channel Master 5g filter which I bought but it never really did anything to help in the past and like before I did nothing to help. So I then thought I would remove the RF amplifier and not amplify the signal and that did not help. The signal strength and quality as measured by my DVR+ would normally be 100/100 but was pretty much 60/0 in all the permutations I tried.

There were no issues on other broadcast channels.

Now here is the part that is really perplexing and has me stumped. I have a CM4228 antenna in the attic that feeds an Amazon Recast. It is about 20- 30 fee from the outside antenna and about the same height. No amps in the feed. The recast feeds over the network the same TV on the first floor and CBS RF36 was coming in with NO issues. Solid reception.

So how is it possible an antenna in the attic can out perform and outside antenna for this particular channel? Any ideas as to what could be going on? I don't have any test equipment so at this point I guess it will remain a mystery. Since rf36 is close to the spectrum that was sold off it made sense it was interference from cell towers etc..


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> So how is it possible an antenna in the attic can out perform and outside antenna for this particular channel? Any ideas as to what could be going on? I don't have any test equipment so at this point I guess it will remain a mystery. Since rf36 is close to the spectrum that was sold off it made sense it was interference from cell towers etc..


In the same way some TV tuners are more sensitive than others, that Channel Master you have in the attic might be a better-quality antenna (at least for RF channel 36) than your Insane Gain xps1500. I'd call that a stretch, because your Insane Gain looks impressive, but that's all I got.


----------



## LenL

Here is what Primestar said on the AVS Antenna forum and it makes some sense that this could be the culprit:

"Temporary Tropo propagation, which comes and goes fairly quickly. It can affect close station by making one or more nearly impossible to receive, BUT, if you run a new channel scan, you may pick up stations 100+ miles away. The antenna on the roof likely normally has a better signal, and was affected more than the antenna in the attic with lesser reception due to being inside."

Strange though that I am the only one that was impacted.


----------



## Brian in CT

LenL said:


> Here is what Primestar said on the AVS Antenna forum and it makes some sense that this could be the culprit:
> 
> "Temporary Tropo propagation, which comes and goes fairly quickly. It can affect close station by making one or more nearly impossible to receive, BUT, if you run a new channel scan, you may pick up stations 100+ miles away. The antenna on the roof likely normally has a better signal, and was affected more than the antenna in the attic with lesser reception due to being inside."
> 
> Strange though that I am the only one that was impacted.


Usually, troposperic ducting happens between sunset and sunrise. Plus, according to your earlier post, only WCBS was affected. That's why I initially doubted it was tropo. Maybe it was very localized, because I'm 80 miles to your east and had deadband conditions during that time.


----------



## hancox

Brian in CT said:


> Usually, troposperic ducting happens between sunset and sunrise. Plus, according to your earlier post, only WCBS was affected. That's why I initially doubted it was tropo. Maybe it was very localized, because I'm 80 miles to your east and had deadband conditions during that time.


CBS also has the worst local co-channel interference possibilities, so it wouldn't take much to impact.


----------



## LenL

hancox I was also thinking co-channel interference might be to blame. If so what can be done about it at my location? Would it have to be another rf 36 broadcaster outside of NYC? I suppose I could see if I can find another rf36 channel in my channel lineup?


----------



## ansky212

LenL said:


> hancox I was also thinking co-channel interference might be to blame. If so what can be done about it at my location? Would it have to be another rf 36 broadcaster outside of NYC? I suppose I could see if I can find another rf36 channel in my channel lineup?


WFSB from Hartford is also on RF36. Are you located north or east of NYC?


----------



## LenL

29 miles west.


----------



## DennisHPC

I have a related issue. My distance is 39 miles northwest of NYC in Sussex County. My antenna is a Channel Master 4228 (original version). I receive WABC, WNBC, WCBS, WMBC, ION, and PBS all fine. Cannot receive WNYW and I suspect it is due to lower power compared to the other network stations - only 92 kW. In the country's largest TV market, why is WNYW broadcasting at a power level that is only 20% of the other major networks? Doesn't make sense.


----------



## KyL416

You can blame the Durst org for that, they screwed up and couldn't deliver the promised facilities at 1WTC, so WNYW couldn't get as big of a power increase as the other stations got during the FCC's maximization window.


----------



## Trip in VA

Durst can be blamed for many things, but I'm not sure this is necessarily one of them. Stations impacted by 9/11 (or who were planning to move to the WTC) were allowed to specify and have protected facilities at the location of what is now 1WTC both prior to and during the repack. Fox did not opt to do so, and instead stuck with smaller facilities on the Empire State Building. After the repack, they then decided they wanted to move to 1WTC, and they had to do a lot of fidgeting to make it work. 

If you look at WNYW's TVStudy analysis from the application, you can see that WCAU on the adjacent channel was the limiting factor. https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f916bd8cd91016bfc1bf22f5d03

- Trip


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Trip in VA said:


> Durst can be blamed for many things, but I'm not sure this is necessarily one of them. Stations impacted by 9/11 (or who were planning to move to the WTC) were allowed to specify and have protected facilities at the location of what is now 1WTC both prior to and during the repack. Fox did not opt to do so, and instead stuck with smaller facilities on the Empire State Building. After the repack, they then decided they wanted to move to 1WTC, and they had to do a lot of fidgeting to make it work.
> 
> If you look at WNYW's TVStudy analysis from the application, you can see that WCAU on the adjacent channel was the limiting factor. https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/api/download/attachment/25076f916bd8cd91016bfc1bf22f5d03
> 
> - Trip


Interesting. I always wondered why WNYW had such low broadcast power in market #1. At least they aren't on low VHF like WPVI in Philadelphia.


----------



## DennisHPC

If WCAU is the problem on channel 28 with WNYW interference on channel 27, why are there no problems with WCBS on 36 and WPXN on 35 or WNBC on 34?


----------



## SnellKrell

KyL416 said:


> You can blame the Durst org for that, they screwed up and couldn't deliver the promised facilities at 1WTC, so WNYW couldn't get as big of a power increase as the other stations got during the FCC's maximization window.


I was at ESB at Noon on April 2, 2018 when WNBC signed off from that location.

If memory serves me right - WNJU (WNBC) had contracted to be placed on the Lower UHF Antenna at 1WTC.

The station had to leave ESB but Durst was delayed in firing up the Lower Antenna, so, WNJU/WNBC had
to first use the Upper Antenna.

Also, WNYW had wanted the Upper UHF Antenna, but Fox was told by Durst that it could not accommodate the
station. What was claimed was a "power" issue. At that time, Durst's 1WTC transmission facility was being touted
as the world's most modern and technologically capable. So, WNYW had to locate on the Lower UHF Antenna.

Somehow with all of its faults, the ESB facility was able to have more stations transmitting from its facility without
reneging on promised locations.


----------



## KyL416

DennisHPC said:


> If WCAU is the problem on channel 28 with WNYW interference on channel 27, why are there no problems with WCBS on 36 and WPXN on 35 or WNBC on 34?


Because all 3 of them are co-located. (You also got the numbers reversed, WPXN is on 34, WNJU/WNBC is on 35)

Adjacent interference affects signals that are further away from eachother.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Joseph Rubin said:


> Like the response before my mentioned, it's broadcasting from The Empire State building, so pointing the antenna towards that. Could improve it.
> But it's also worth mentioning that channel 11 is a Hi VHF channel, and the cheap flat antennas usually are only UHF antennas. So adding a Vhf Rod will probably greatly improve it.
> Good luck


I hear you about UHF & VHF, BUT I have no trouble or issue with 7, 9, and 13. JUST 11 (PIX/CW). I do have an ancient pair of rabbit ears and a splitter somewhere, guess I better try that.


----------



## KyL416

When you have a flat antenna the VHF reception is actually coming from the cable connected to the antenna and is highly dependent on how that cable is positioned.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

Riverside_Guy said:


> I hear you about UHF & VHF, BUT I have no trouble or issue with 7, 9, and 13. JUST 11 (PIX/CW). I do have an ancient pair of rabbit ears and a splitter somewhere, guess I better try that.


First of all. Channel 9 isn't a Vhf channel. It's UHF.
And as for 7 and 13. Ya you could still get some better than others. But I still think if you improve your Vhf reception it will improve on Channel 11. Probably.
And also channel 13, while it is indeed a hi Vhf channel, it is however broadcasting from 1 WTC, where as channel 11 (and 7) are coming from ESB, so you having a good reception on 13 and not on 11 isn't a surprise.
But even for 7 it isn't surprising, one can be better than the other. Even if both are Hi Vhf etc.

Give the rabbit ears a try. See if it's any better


----------



## DennisHPC

KyL416 said:


> Because all 3 of them are co-located. (You also got the numbers reversed, WPXN is on 34, WNJU/WNBC is on 35)
> 
> Adjacent interference affects signals that are further away from eachother.


Okay, thank you for the info. More clear now.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

KyL416 said:


> When you have a flat antenna the VHF reception is actually coming from the cable connected to the antenna and is highly dependent on how that cable is positioned.


Interesting... said cable runs up my window to the top of it. Actually, I have no other choice (of course, I could add an extension, run it up then horizontally for a bit). The antenna is on the window gotta be 8-9 feet off the ground/floor.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Joseph Rubin said:


> First of all. Channel 9 isn't a Vhf channel. It's UHF.
> And as for 7 and 13. Ya you could still get some better than others. But I still think if you improve your Vhf reception it will improve on Channel 11. Probably.
> And also channel 13, while it is indeed a hi Vhf channel, it is however broadcasting from 1 WTC, where as channel 11 (and 7) are coming from ESB, so you having a good reception on 13 and not on 11 isn't a surprise.
> But even for 7 it isn't surprising, one can be better than the other. Even if both are Hi Vhf etc.
> 
> Give the rabbit ears a try. See if it's any better


Thanks for the info... given my location (~100th & WEA/Riverside) ESB is actually much closer than the WTC. I have a pretty clear view to the south in general, lotta brownstones and one 10 story building across the street (I am on the 10th floor). Only dreading hooking up the rabbit ears because the coax input on the TV is so close to the back that it is very difficult to get it screwed in correctly (one of those dreaded side input "schemes" that are just awful).


----------



## rhrisch

There are elbow shaped male-female coax connectors that help in situations like that you mention. I use one.


----------



## SnellKrell

Yes!

Use this with my Samsung - makes things so much easier.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

I have those in my cart! I tried using my splitter, but for some reason when I switched it over the the rabbit ears, no signal. HOWEVER I did a channel scan after I hooked it all up and low and behold I get PIX/11. When the switch is set to the flat antenna. We'll see if my theory holds up BUT the "wire" to the flat antenna is way, way slim.... not at all like pretty much every coax cable I have seen. Only difference now is I have about 3' of really heavy duty coax to the splitter. If it stays that way over a few days, I'll get the angle connector and a female to female (to get the splitter out of the picture).

Someone DID say a simple cable CAN act like a bit of an antenna for VHF, so this MAY demonstrate that. Crossing my fingers.


----------



## CopRock

frenchjoh51 said:


> yes, its only occasional, but it is happening more since wmbc changed towers. I think I benefit from signal refraction off a verylarge hill and not just tropo, as I can pull in wnbc 4 and wcbs 2 most of the time even midday.


I think Quest is having issues, last couple of days the schedule was screwed up, with most History shows gone and it went from 480i16:9 to 4:3 letterbox … and now today it seems to be showing Food Factory but the EPG’s show Modern Marvel
Probably due to Story Television in the same market?


----------



## Joseph Rubin

CopRock said:


> I think Quest is having issues, last couple of days the schedule was screwed up, with most History shows gone and it went from 480i16:9 to 4:3 letterbox … and now today it seems to be showing Food Factory but the EPG’s show Modern Marvel
> Probably due to Story Television in the same market?


You're right ... Right now it's playing monster? Fishing? Show? Idk, I think it's monster quest, data shows Modern Marvels. And format looks messed up. And there is no Quest channel logo anywhere.


----------



## CopRock

Joseph Rubin said:


> You're right ... Right now it's playing monster? Fishing? Show? Idk, I think it's monster quest, data shows Modern Marvels. And format looks messed up. And there is no Quest channel logo anywhere.


Yeah, late last night when I turned on the tv I saw some old Boanaza type tv show and then switched to Quest programming around 6am, I did leave a FB message at the Quest PB page but then later realized that it should go to WMBC 63.1 since they lease the pchannel… 
The Quest logo is gone, but commercial bumpers with Quest identification still there, who knows what’s going on and the EPG info on Twist 41.3 is also messed up badly 

Quest is one of the channels I don’t get on my basic Spectrum cable system, but leaving that at the end of the month due to a ridiculous price increase and don’t get StoryTV OTA


----------



## Joseph Rubin

CopRock said:


> Yeah, late last night when I turned on the tv I saw some old Boanaza type tv show and then switched to Quest programming around 6am, I did leave a FB message at the Quest PB page but then later realized that it should go to WMBC 63.1 since they lease the pchannel…
> The Quest logo is gone, but commercial bumpers with Quest identification still there, who knows what’s going on and the EPG info on Twist 41.3 is also messed up badly
> 
> Quest is one of the channels I don’t get on my basic Spectrum cable system, but leaving that at the end of the month due to a ridiculous price increase and don’t get StoryTV OTA


First .. welcome to the cable cutter community. Screw cable you don't need it.
And ya the Story channel was added very recently, it's a new channel


----------



## KyL416

CopRock said:


> and now today it seems to be showing Food Factory but the EPG’s show Modern Marvel





Joseph Rubin said:


> You're right ... Right now it's playing monster? Fishing? Show? Idk, I think it's monster quest


Food Factory USA and Monster Quest are what Quest now has listed on their schedule at those times and they list some other new shows on their website. Twist is Quest's sister network, and their website also shows a new schedule for the fall.

It's the start of a new TV season and also when some programming licensing deals change, so that's when many of the diginets revamp their schedules. Like Cozi is adding Monk, Bones and Las Vegas to their weekday lineup in 2 weeks, and Bounce also made some schedule changes last week to replace Wendy Williams with Sherri and Nick Cannon with Karamo.


----------



## CopRock

Good to know on the new shows and I did check their schedule a week or so ago when the craziness started and It was wonky as well, at least it’s getting fixed… but the bigger issue is the changing of the transmission format from 16:9 to 4:3 LB 😖


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Very happy now that I have jiggered up my antenna (with a right angle coupler for the TV, a F to F coupler and a 6' length of fairly heavy duty coax hooked to a flat antenna I have on my window, at the top, facing south). No issues at all with VHF 11 & 13. Matter of fact, previous channel scans yielded 76 or 78 channels logged. With the extra bit of coax cable, 98.


----------



## Riverside_Guy

I see NY has one lonely ATSC 3 station (in Korean no less), got a TV with a ATSC 3 tuner, yet I can not pick up this station at all (though several channel scans). Is there any antenna issue, I have great reception on all channels my scan picked up (and yes, it picked up zero "next gen" as they call it). Anyone able to at least tune it in?


----------



## KyL416

As was mentioned before, WNYZ-LD transmits from the old Citigroup building in Long Island City and is a highly directional LPTV signal since it needs to protect WPVI Philly. They have no intention as serving as the market's lighthouse as their main target audience is the Korean community in the Flushing area and the ONLY reason why it's in ATSC 3.0 is so they could continue their franken FM station NY Radio Korea on their 87.75 MHz audio carrier after last year's deadline for LPTV stations to cease analog NTSC operations. As part of their STA extension to continue to operate the analog audio carrier, they included a field test from June. Chicago has the same thing with their RF 6 LPTV station WRME-LD, except in their case the 87.7 audio carrier is leased to Weigel for MeTV's oldies radio station.

If for whatever reason you still want to receive the channel, it's a VHF-lo station so you're going to need a full band antenna (the kind of antenna needed to pick up the 33.x and 37.x channels on WJLP's RF 3 signal), and even if you are within their contour, unless you are in the green zone on their propagation map, you are not going to get it reliably without a larger high gain antenna designed for fringe reception.


----------



## mets18

Riverside_Guy said:


> I see NY has one lonely ATSC 3 station (in Korean no less), got a TV with a ATSC 3 tuner, yet I can not pick up this station at all (though several channel scans). Is there any antenna issue, I have great reception on all channels my scan picked up (and yes, it picked up zero "next gen" as they call it). Anyone able to at least tune it in?


I don't see a whole lot of hope for ATSC 3.0 in NYC in the near future. When digital first came along there were 68 OTA channels available which allowed for analog and digital simulcasts. With all the spectrum sold to wireless phone providers they are left with I believe 35 channels which does not leave room for ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 simulcasts.


----------



## KyL416

ATSC 3.0 does NOT use seperate transitional allotments, a station has to convert their existing signal to ATSC 3.0 and partner with other participating local broadcasters to carry their ATSC 1.0 simulcasts.

There were multiple plans for the post repack band, but it was all contingent on how many stations chose to give up their spectrum in the auction. i.e. if just one additional full power station in NYC (WNBC, WXTV, WZME, WRNN, WNJN, WTBY or WNYJ) or Philly (WYBE, WLVT, WMCN, WGTW, WTVE, WNJT, WWSI, WUVP or WFMZ) didn't opt to sell their spectrum, they would have had to keep RF 38 post repack to fit everything in, and reserve RF 39 as part of the guard band between TV and 600 MHz LTE instead of using RF 37 and the first 3 MHz of RF 38 as the guard band.


And even if the repack didn't happen, between NYC, Philly and all the neighboring markets there still wouldn't have been room for seperate allotments in the 2-51 range for every full power station. The only reason why there was enough during the DTV transition was because co-located analog UHF stations had a 6 channel seperation requirement and digital doesn't, so they were able to use the gaps to give every full power station in the USA a transitional allotment, while Class A upgrades for qualifying LPTV stations didn't exist until after the transitional allotments were handed out. By 1998 it was already confirmed that the post transition band would be 2-51, so every station with a transitional signal between 52-69 were ones that either intended to return to their analog number or had a post transition allotment that was already in use.


----------



## pabuwal

Anyone know why WABC has the worst picture quality for NFL football in the market? Same with WPVI for Philly.


----------



## KyL416

Probably a combo of Disney using 720p and most of the ABC O&Os having 2 HD and 2 SD subchannels.

CBS is 1080i with 3 SD subchannels, Fox is 720p with 4 SD. NBC is 2 1080i with 3 SD, but they use a dynamic stat mux that gives extra priority to NBC during live sports.


----------



## Mediterraneo

KyL416 said:


> Probably a combo of Disney using 720p and most of the ABC O&Os having 2 HD and 2 SD subchannels.
> 
> CBS is 1080i with 3 SD subchannels, Fox is 720p with 4 SD. NBC is 2 1080i with 3 SD, but they use a dynamic stat mux that gives extra priority to NBC during live sports.


That explains why I always thought that CBS (and PIX11) have some of the best picture quality in the market.


----------



## Mediterraneo

Not sure if it has already been mentioned, but it appears W25FA-D (28.1, Jewelry TV) is now broadcasting in 1080i, around 10mbps bitrate. Good for them for using the bandwidth, but I wish it was being used by a less... useless channel.


----------



## Mediterraneo

Also just noticed a new channel, *Comfy*, is broadcasting on the 39.1 channel.
It appears it's just a static image of an old movie in 720p, for now.


----------



## KyL416

Comfy TV is what used to be on 32.1 WXNY-LD, whose sale to Daystar was consummated last week.


----------



## Joseph Rubin

I just picked up a new... Weird .. channel. Virtual channel #19-20 (name says, TEST004).

I'm not sure which RF channel its on.
Anyone else getting It?


----------



## KyL416

It's on WHTV-LD's RF 31 signal:
https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php...gn=WHTV-LD&sort=date&hours=all&tzone=ET&unit=


----------



## Joseph Rubin

KyL416 said:


> It's on WHTV-LD's RF 31 signal:
> https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php...gn=WHTV-LD&sort=date&hours=all&tzone=ET&unit=


Oh ok. It's just a still ad. Nothing exciting


----------



## KyL416

What does the still ad show?


----------



## hancox

Sorry for those looking for my live bandscans ( Monroe, CT ) - lightning strike knocked out all my HDHR's - hopefully replaced this week.


----------



## KyL416

Can anyone who's in range of WXNY-LD's RF 23 signal and gets their 32.x channels verify what they now have as their lineup? Their sale to Daystar was consummated last week.

Basically, you have to be south and west of the Empire State Building, north of Newark and Jersey City, east of Paterson and West Orange, or in Brooklyn to have a chance of getting it reliably, as all the other directions have nulls to protect WNJS and WFTY.


----------



## Sat-Matt

KyL416 said:


> Can anyone who's in range of WXNY-LD's RF 23 signal and gets their 32.x channels verify what they now have as their lineup? Their sale to Daystar was consummated last week.
> 
> Basically, you have to be south and west of the Empire State Building, north of Newark and Jersey City, east of Paterson and West Orange, or in Brooklyn to have a chance of getting it reliably, as all the other directions have nulls to protect WNJS and WFTY.


I'm in Midtown and see: 
32.1 (480i) - black screen with occasional upper left white graphic that is difficult to read and might say IJFM TV with a scrolling lower 3rd station ID WXNY-LD New York.
32.2 (480i) - black screen with occasional upper left that says Winnies World
32.3 (480i) - iSciFi (video ok, no audio)
32.4 (480i) - Diya (presently showing a talk show, video and audio stable)


----------



## rcodey

Same channel info for WXNY's RF 23 signal . Only subchannel 4 has video .


----------



## LenL

I am now getting WFMZ 69.1 (and subs) showing RF 9! This is not showing up in Trips (RabbitEars) database of stations in PA. Not sure how I am getting it since my antenna is directional (Insane Gain XPS1500) and facing east to the ESB and 1WTC. Maybe weather related but his is crazy! Signal strength is in the low 80's and quality is round 24 but good enough to hold the signla quite well.



https://www.wfmz.com/



Our coverage area is an unusual geographic market: the Lehigh Valley and Berks County. It's the third largest business district in Pennsylvania. This includes Lehigh, Northampton, Berks, and Carbon counties in Pennsylvania, and Warren County in New Jersey within the Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, PA/NJ MSA. It also includes portions of Monroe, Schuylkill, Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and, Montgomery counties in Pennsylvania and Hunterdon, Mercer, Burlington, Camden, and Gloucester counties in New Jersey.

WFMZ-TV programs 93 live half-hours of original local news each week. This equals over 2,416 hours of local news, weather, traffic and sports each year. Our Berks Edition newscast is dedicated to Reading and Berks County. To serve the Hispanic community, WFMZ-TV employs a full Hispanic news department, which produces a Spanish-language newscast each weeknight at 11pm airing on 69.1. WFMZ-TV has a seasoned team of award winning news journalists that viewers in our area depend on for local and regional election coverage, school closings, and live reports when news happens.

Our *program schedule* includes popular syndicated shows, local sports, entertainment, classic family shows and religious programming. We also feature several live and taped local programs throughout the year.

WFMZ-TV also programs a 24/7 *69News Weather Channel* on our digital channel 69.2. This channel is a destination for up-to-the-minute weather forecasts and information. In addition to live traffic/weather cameras and radar maps, a team of local meteorologist provide an updated forecast every 15 minutes.

We also provide the local community with news and information on wfmz.com and our *Smartphone Apps*. These include our news app, weather app and 69 WFMZ Live app. News is continuously updated throughout the day to serve the needs of the community. Our monthly viewership continues to grow dramatically. Our online product has received excellent reviews and is highly successful as an *advertising medium*.


----------



## KyL416

LenL said:


> I am now getting WFMZ 69.1 (and subs) showing RF 9! This is not showing up in Trips (RabbitEars) database of stations in PA


69.x WFMZ sold their spectrum in the auction and is one of several guests on 60.x WBPH's RF 9 signal:
https://rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=60850#station


----------



## LenL

Just looked at their website again and they show the FCC filing as RF7 and not RF9. However my DVR+ shows RF9. So much misinformation that is shown to us viewers! I wonder if anyone at the FCC really cares?



TV Station WFMZ-TV - FCC Public Inspection File


----------



## KyL416

RF 7 is WFMZ's Philly translator. It's kind of a complicated thing where since the translators are licensed to WFMZ, they are not part of the channel sharing, so they only carry WFMZ's 69.x channels and some of their sister station WDPN's 2.x channels.

Their main Allentown signal is a guest on WBPH's RF 9 signal, which is also shared with WLVT/39 and WPPT/35. (Which itself is a complicated thing where the then WYBE/35 was originally planning to go off air entirely after selling their spectrum, but instead donated their license to WLVT, so the 35.x channels are sharing WLVT's 3rd of the RF 9 bandwidth)


----------



## pawnbroker7

pabuwal said:


> Anyone know why WABC has the worst picture quality for NFL football in the market? Same with WPVI for Philly.


I'm having the same problem but now not just with 7 but 4 and 5 as well and 11 and 13 are no longer coming through. I never had issues with these channels- there must be some kind of interference from either a newly constructed building or possibly the new 5g tower sticking out of the sidewalk. I'm on 2nd ave east side of street about 2 blocks from Houston.


----------



## pawnbroker7

pawnbroker7 said:


> I'm having the same problem but now not just with 7 but 4 and 5 as well and 11 and 13 are no longer coming through. I never had issues with these channels- there must be some kind of interference from either a newly constructed building or possibly the new 5g tower sticking out of the sidewalk. I'm on 2nd ave east side of street about 2 blocks from Houston.


... forgot to add my apt unfortunately faces east. Thanks


----------



## Brian in CT

pawnbroker7 said:


> I'm having the same problem but now not just with 7 but 4 and 5 as well and 11 and 13 are no longer coming through. I never had issues with these channels- there must be some kind of interference from either a newly constructed building or possibly the new 5g tower sticking out of the sidewalk. I'm on 2nd ave east side of street about 2 blocks from Houston.


Have you recently bought some kind of gizmo that could be causing the interference? Things like cheap LED bulbs, computer monitors, security cameras, and power inverters can cause interference on the VHF band. Since you live in an apartment building, maybe there is a chance one of your neighbors might have done this, and they're close enough to affect your signal. Facing away from ESB & 1WTC doesn't help either. You might be receiving your TV signals from reflections due to being surrounded by tall buildings. Those reflections can vary over time.

BTW, what type of antenna are you using? Hopefully, you're not using a "mudflap" antenna. That type of antenna is UHF only, and you'll only get any VHF stations from the positioning of the wire.


----------



## hancox

Brian in CT said:


> Have you recently bought some kind of gizmo that could be causing the interference? Things like cheap LED bulbs, computer monitors, security cameras, and power inverters can cause interference on the VHF band. Since you live in an apartment building, maybe there is a chance one of your neighbors might have done this, and they're close enough to affect your signal. Facing away from ESB & 1WTC doesn't help either. You might be receiving your TV signals from reflections due to being surrounded by tall buildings. Those reflections can vary over time.
> 
> BTW, what type of antenna are you using? Hopefully, you're not using a "mudflap" antenna. That type of antenna is UHF only, and you'll only get any VHF stations from the positioning of the wire.


This is good advice. A USB-powered fan used to nuke VHF for me, until i figured it out.


----------



## pawnbroker7

hancox said:


> This is good advice. A USB-powered fan used to nuke VHF for me, until i figured it out.





Brian in CT said:


> Have you recently bought some kind of gizmo that could be causing the interference? Things like cheap LED bulbs, computer monitors, security cameras, and power inverters can cause interference on the VHF band. Since you live in an apartment building, maybe there is a chance one of your neighbors might have done this, and they're close enough to affect your signal. Facing away from ESB & 1WTC doesn't help either. You might be receiving your TV signals from reflections due to being surrounded by tall buildings. Those reflections can vary over time.
> 
> BTW, what type of antenna are you using? Hopefully, you're not using a "mudflap" antenna. That type of antenna is UHF only, and you'll only get any VHF stations from the positioning of the wire.


Thanks for the reply. This issue started about 3 weeks ago without issues previously, so I believe it's some kind of outside interference that might be happening due to construction or, as another possibility, the installation of a 5G terminal on the sidewalk about 100 ft from my apt. I'm using a Winegard Batwing Amplified Antenna hanging vertically close to the window and ceiling. I can get a clear image that at some point becomes pixelated and then the reception begins to deteriorate. Generally I wouldn't care since I rarely watch network tv but it's football season and ABC is broadcasting some of the games. The other night I was getting a bad image on 2, 4, 5 and 7 and then in the morning reception was back. . I was considering mounting the antenna on the roof since I'm one on 4, the landlord wouldn't care, but not sure how I'd be able to ground it correctly. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## Brian in CT

The Batwing looks like the right antenna for the job. I'd turn off the amplifier to see if that's the cause of your problems. With ATSC 1.0, overamplification can cause pixelation and dropouts, and you're so close to the transmitters. Other than that, I'm out of ideas. Yeah, too bad you can't put your antenna on the roof. That would have definitely improved reception, but grounding is very important for any outdoor installation.


----------



## Trip in VA

I find myself in Fair Lawn this evening. For those who look at the Fair Lawn Live Bandscan, some time between now and when I leave here Monday morning I plan to replace the tuner with an ATSC 3.0 model, and use a UVSJ to relegate the current rabbit ear antenna to VHF-only reception and then add a separate UHF antenna. I also intend to optimize the position of each within the closet they're currently in. Hopefully all the equipment works properly.

Just an FYI so nobody here is confused by its sudden disappearance and the change in signal levels on the new one.

- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA

Here's the new tuner: RabbitEars Mobile

Still on the old antenna setup for now.

EDIT: Poking this morning, the UHF antenna I brought doesn't appear to bring in any additional stations unless it's removed from the closet in question, so I'm contemplating leaving the antenna setup the way it is, but repositioned for better reception. The 4K is much less picky about the most of UHF full-powers with the current rabbit ears, so I can optimize for other stations. I'll try to do that today and if I can find a good position, I'll stick with it.

EDIT 2: I ended up putting in my UVSJ after all. I was trying to balance 5 stations, WJLP, WABC, WKOB-LD, WHTV-LD, and WPXN. The VHFs clearly wanted the rabbit ears in a different position than the UHF. So now they're separate. I may still tinker, and will post again either after I've left or when I'm done.

- Trip


----------



## LenL

If you need something to do on Sunday you are welcome to come to my house and check out my antenna setup etc....we will feed you and I have lots of wine, beer etc..


----------



## Riverside_Guy

Brian in CT said:


> BTW, what type of antenna are you using? Hopefully, you're not using a "mudflap" antenna. That type of antenna is UHF only, and you'll only get any VHF stations from the positioning of the wire.


The wire too my flat antenna (pasted at the top of my window facing south has a very thin wire to it). AND I could not run it much of anywhere except from my TV and up. 11 & 13 were not happening. I added a 6" section of good quality, heavy duty coax and NOW they both come in just grand.

I AM curious why 5 is only in 720, where everyone else seems to do 1080i without an issue. This weirds me out, we are the top 1 or 2 TV markets and we have NO ATSC 3.0 stations and one of our locals is still in the horse & buggy era. I mean it's 2022, not 1922.


----------



## LATV

5 does 720P because they are a Fox station and 720p is the Fox standard as is 7 WABC who also use it as it is also Disney's standard.


----------



## KyL416

Yeah, all the Fox and Disney/ABC networks use 720p/60. The former Fox owned RSNs (now Bally) along with YES also use 720p/60

The local Univision and UniMas stations are also now 720p after WXTV and WFUT started spectrum sharing.


----------



## Brian in CT

Riverside_Guy said:


> The wire too my flat antenna (pasted at the top of my window facing south has a very thin wire to it). AND I could not run it much of anywhere except from my TV and up. 11 & 13 were not happening. I added a 6" section of good quality, heavy duty coax and NOW they both come in just grand.
> 
> I AM curious why 5 is only in 720, where everyone else seems to do 1080i without an issue. This weirds me out, we are the top 1 or 2 TV markets and we have NO ATSC 3.0 stations and one of our locals is still in the horse & buggy era. I mean it's 2022, not 1922.


Good for you on now receiving WPIX and WNET. Being so close to the transmitters, the six inches of coax did the trick.

When all full power TV stations went digital in June 2009, Fox and ABC had chosen to broadcast in 720p while CBS and NBC chose 1080i. Both are better than the NTSC standard of 480i, which is still being used by many of diginets.


----------



## Trip in VA

LenL said:


> If you need something to do on Sunday you are welcome to come to my house and check out my antenna setup etc....we will feed you and I have lots of wine, beer etc..


We spent 4 hours at Mitsuwa market in Edgewater, then spent time with my grandmother before going out to dinner. I got four stations I couldn't see here from the parking lot there. (20, 22, 23, and 29. 33 was absent, I sent a note to the owner. 2, 28, and 30 were too weak.)

Unless I wake up in the morning and it's gone down hill, I think I'm now happy with the setup. For anyone interested, I got a picture of it:


http://imgur.com/a/II384RO


- Trip


----------



## d3193

Riverside_Guy said:


> The wire too my flat antenna (pasted at the top of my window facing south has a very thin wire to it). AND I could not run it much of anywhere except from my TV and up. 11 & 13 were not happening. I added a 6" section of good quality, heavy duty coax and NOW they both come in just grand.
> 
> I AM curious why 5 is only in 720, where everyone else seems to do 1080i without an issue. This weirds me out, we are the top 1 or 2 TV markets and we have NO ATSC 3.0 stations and one of our locals is still in the horse & buggy era. I mean it's 2022, not 1922.


Fox and ABC chose 720p because the associated frame rate is 60 frames per second scanned progressively, which should be better for motion than an interlaced picture (as a bonus, it uses less bandwith than 1080i). Both networks considered sports to be an important ingredient of their programming, and sporting events theoretically benefit from progressive scanning. Whether most people can see a difference (in motion depiction) is up for grabs. It's a trade off between overall picture resolution and motion. And today's displays are almost all progressively scanned, needing to convert 1080i to 1080p, which they do reasonably well. So is there still an advantage of 720p for motion?


----------



## IT'S ME TOO

Hi , question about WJLP RF 3/33 , awhile back someone on this forum said that WJLP (me tv) their contract will be up soon? and they may move to a UHF channel, is this true? and if so when is their contract up?? thanks


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## KyL416

MeTV's owner Weigel purchased WJLP and WNWT-LD from PMCM last year and took control of the stations this past January, so the contract expirations (and bogus lawsuits) are no longer an issue as it's now a MeTV O&O.


----------



## ansky212

IT'S ME TOO said:


> Hi , question about WJLP RF 3/33 , awhile back someone on this forum said that WJLP (me tv) their contract will be up soon? and they may move to a UHF channel, is this true? and if so when is their contract up?? thanks


Weigel now owns WZME which is on UHF and currently has MeTV+ and Story Television. Their DTS application to broadcast from ESB was approved last month so it's just a matter of time before they come on the air in NYC. As others have mentioned the main MeTV channel will stay on WJLP (which also hosts MeTV+ and Story Television).


----------



## KyL416

WBAI 99.5 and WKCR 89.9 have messages on their websites about maintenance going on at 4 Times Square between 7am to around 5pm today and tomorrow, so WJLP and WBGO 88.3 were at their aux sites, while WNYE, WBAI and WKCR were off air until a few minutes ago.

EDIT: WBAI's website has been updated to say the work will continue on 10/12 too.


----------



## Brian in CT

KyL416 said:


> WBAI 99.5 and WKCR 89.9 have messages on their websites about maintenance going on at 4 Times Square between 7am to around 5pm today and tomorrow, so WJLP and WBGO 88.3 were at their aux sites, while WNYE, WBAI and WKCR were off air until a few minutes ago.
> 
> EDIT: WBAI's website has been updated to say the work will continue on 10/12 too.


Thanks for the tip on WNYE, KyL416. When I woke up today, I tuned my TV to RF channel 24 and received w24ez from West Haven, Connecticut with Retro TV showing My Little Margie. I never got that station before due to WNYE. The show was in 4:3 stretched to 16:9 and the commercials were 16:9 stretched to CinemaScope like proportions.

If you're interested Trip, here is some information about w24ez:
RF: 24
VC: 24.1
PSIP: RetroTV
Resolution: 720p

I may never get this TV station again after tomorrow. I will note this in the Hartford-OTA thread too.


----------



## Mediterraneo

d3193 said:


> And today's displays are almost all progressively scanned, needing to convert 1080i to 1080p, which they do reasonably well. So is there still an advantage of 720p for motion?


The answer is yes. 1080i is actually "converted" to 1080p at 30 fps, unlike 720p60 which still has double the frames per second (better motion for sports).


----------



## pawnbroker7

Brian in CT said:


> The Batwing looks like the right antenna for the job. I'd turn off the amplifier to see if that's the cause of your problems. With ATSC 1.0, overamplification can cause pixelation and dropouts, and you're so close to the transmitters. Other than that, I'm out of ideas. Yeah, too bad you can't put your antenna on the roof. That would have definitely improved reception, but grounding is very important for any outdoor installation.


----------



## replayrob

Looks like WNBC-NY CH 4 from ESB dropped output at 12am this morning... enough drop that the TiVo can't pull it in from 57 air miles east on LI 
They did the same thing last spring for a few days, then back up to regular TX for the summer now another drop.. for how long this time?


----------



## SnellKrell

The Fair Lawn tuner is showing a signal strength reduction occurring around midnight. Richmond Hill in Queens doesn't seem to reflect the change.

And by the way, neither WNJU nor WNBC has had a transmission facility at ESB for a number of years, the stations broadcast from 1WTC.

Backup for WNJU is also on 1WTC with an auxiliary facility located at 4TS.


----------



## replayrob

^ oh, thanks for transmitter location info.



https://rabbitears.info/search.php?request=network_search&network=NBC&sort=state



So they have two transmitters and two antennas at 1WT and another transmitter and ant at 4TS. 

Guess they're off their main system currently?


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## SnellKrell

Not necessarily. At times stations will be asked by the managers of a facility to temporarily lower their power to allow installations and repairs on other stations' equipment.


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## CopRock

Not the only station that dropped out for me in zip code 10003, although a heavy urban environment I did get decent number of channels with an antennae on my apartment window facing south about 20 feet above street level
Current channels & subs that dropped out entirely besides NBC 4-1 are WNET 13-1, FNX 14, WNJU 47 & WTBY 54

for the last couple of weeks, I have had issues with nbc on my TiVo Roamio’s tuner but not on other tuners so figured it was just the TiVo being finicky as usual.
I wonder how many days it will last and wish info of repairs was readily posted on their websites




replayrob said:


> Looks like WNBC-NY CH 4 from ESB dropped output at 12am this morning... enough drop that the TiVo can't pull it in from 57 air miles east on LI
> They did the same thing last spring for a few days, then back up to regular TX for the summer now another drop.. for how long this time?
> 
> View attachment 3351433


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## replayrob

^ last time this happened at WNBC-NY (late fall/early summer IIRC) it lasted 7 days then it popped up to full power magically at midnight again.


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## replayrob

SnellKrell said:


> Not necessarily. At times stations will be asked by the managers of a facility to temporarily lower their power to allow installations and repairs on other stations' equipment.


Yes, our company is responsible for a few VHF radio systems at tower sites on LI and ocassionaly we have to ask the FM stations to lower their output power if we have someone on the tower near their antenna. But, they are generally extremely vigilant and want to be notified the second our crew is down so they can crank up the power again. Last time this happened with WNBC-NY it lasted 7 days so I can't imagine it's co-tenant related if this goes on for days again.


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## CopRock

Looks like all back to normal as of mid nite oct 28 .., missing channels are back 📺 





replayrob said:


> ^ last time this happened at WNBC-NY (late fall/early summer IIRC) it lasted 7 days then it popped up to full power magically at midnight again.


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## replayrob

^ Yup.. back at full power as of 12:00am this morning, good signal strength on the TiVo.


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## A8H

Speaking of fox, and its 720p....They have the WORST looking sports broadcasts. I swear its 480p. sports on CBS ALWAYS look better.


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## SnellKrell

A8H said:


> Speaking of fox, and its 720p....They have the WORST looking sports broadcasts. I swear its 480p. sports on CBS ALWAYS look better.


Fox and 480p!

Brings back memories of when digital first came in. Rupert wouldn't go all out and instead employed widescreen, 480p.

The Commissioner of the NFL went ballistic - the other guys were using "the real thing." 

Fox gave in and finally switched to 720p.


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## pabuwal

I think the ABC O&Os are have worse sports PQ than Fox O&Os now.


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## Mediterraneo

ABC’s NYC Marathon picture quality is looking _horrible_. Like 480p or worse. Unwatchable.


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## Joseph Rubin

Mediterraneo said:


> ABC’s NYC Marathon picture quality is looking _horrible_. Like 480p or worse. Unwatchable.


Not sure why but my signal is breaking up horribly on channel 7 now. Usually is stable enough. Now total crap


----------



## LenL

Probably weather (Tropo) related.


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## darryl.zuk

Does anyone else get really annoying interference just to the sound portion of their OTA signal? Like this? (Sorry for the sideways video) it's been driving me crazy when I am trying to watch football and it happens every third play... I'm not sure if I need some sort of filter or what.


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## LenL

No never happens to me. Does it happen on only one OTA channel or all of them? You did not provide a lot of information for us to help you.


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## IT'S ME TOO

Hi , on whtv-Ld ch 18 RF31, many times the sound goes out on 18-1, the sound is always there on 18-2 , 18-3 is a screen for adding a subchannel, and 18-4 Diya? has no sound at all, on 18-1 the sound is on day time, and goes out for hours, and then comes back on late in evening, last night at about 12 15 am, does anybody else have this?? i just started picking this channel up days ago. it comes in good only some blips. and sound on 18-2 is always on, 18-4 never on. thanks


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## ansky212

IT'S ME TOO said:


> Hi , on whtv-Ld ch 18 RF31, many times the sound goes out on 18-1, the sound is always there on 18-2 , 18-3 is a screen for adding a subchannel, and 18-4 Diya? has no sound at all, on 18-1 the sound is on day time, and goes out for hours, and then comes back on late in evening, last night at about 12 15 am, does anybody else have this?? i just started picking this channel up days ago. it comes in good only some blips. and sound on 18-2 is always on, 18-4 never on. thanks


Where are you located? I checked the Rabbitears coverage map and I'm in the green zone but I can't pick them up even with an outdoor antenna.


----------



## mets18

ansky212 said:


> Where are you located? I checked the Rabbitears coverage map and I'm in the green zone but I can't pick them up even with an outdoor antenna.


It's on the same channel as WTXF from Philadelphia so they cancel each other out in northern NJ.


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## KyL416

Even though you might be in the green on their propagation map, it transmits from the Trump World Tower near the UN at a height that's around 800' lower than most of the other major stations in the city, so a lot of Manhattan and points west are blocked by skyscrapers.

In addition to WTXF Philly, it's also co-channel with WZPK-LD in the Hudson Valley and WVIT Hartford, so anyone outside of the Brooklyn, Queens and the western fringes of Nassau county are going to have a hard time getting it.


----------



## kirk28

I lost MeTV (33.1) a couple of days ago. Has anyone's signal strength dropped or is it just me?


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## ansky212

kirk28 said:


> I lost MeTV (33.1) a couple of days ago. Has anyone's signal strength dropped or is it just me?


No change for me. I'm in Jersey.


----------



## Brian in CT

kirk28 said:


> I lost MeTV (33.1) a couple of days ago. Has anyone's signal strength dropped or is it just me?


I'm about 50 miles away and it's as strong as always.

Here's a thought. Did you recently buy some household gizmo that could be interfering with WJLP? Being on the VHF-Lo band (RF 3), reception is susceptible to things like cheap LED lights, security cameras, power inverters and such. That might be the problem.


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## Mediterraneo

We are nearing the end of 2022 and not a single ATSC 3.0 channel in sight within our media market. I thought at least PBS had announced a 2022 start of broadcasting? Every other broadcaster has been on crickets.


----------



## Antenna Man PA

Mediterraneo said:


> We are nearing the end of 2022 and not a single ATSC 3.0 channel in sight within our media market. I thought at least PBS had announced a 2022 start of broadcasting? Every other broadcaster has been on crickets.


They've been saying ATSC 3.0 in NYC is "coming this year" for the last four or five years. I wouldn't hold your breath. NYC has the same problem as Philadelphia where all major networks are O&O with some on channel shares. O&Os aren't aggressive to deploy 3.0 like companies like that have financial interests in the new standard such as Nexstar and Sinclair. Without FCC intervention, I'm not sure when or even if ATSC 3.0 will take off. It's possible it may flop like ATSC M/H.


----------



## ansky212

Antenna Man PA said:


> They've been saying ATSC 3.0 in NYC is "coming this year" for the last four or five years. I wouldn't hold your breath. NYC has the same problem as Philadelphia where all major networks are O&O with some on channel shares. O&Os aren't aggressive to deploy 3.0 like companies like that have financial interests in the new standard such as Nexstar and Sinclair. Without FCC intervention, I'm not sure when or even if ATSC 3.0 will take off. It's possible it may flop like ATSC M/H.


I agree. There just aren't enough OTA viewers overall for these networks to justify investing in ATSC 3.0 upgrades unless they can find some way to monetize it. The future of TV is in streaming services.


----------



## Mediterraneo

ansky212 said:


> I agree. There just aren't enough OTA viewers overall for these networks to justify investing in ATSC 3.0 upgrades unless they can find some way to monetize it. The future of TV is in streaming services.


Well, one of the primary reasons for broadcasters to switch to ATSC3.0 is the added ability for targeted advertising, which is huge.

Looking at Europe, most countries are in the process of switching (or have already switched) to DVB-T2, their 3.0 equivalent, due to spectrum efficiency, shutdown of higher UHF frequencies, HLG-HDR, and Hybrid Broadcast Broadband TV capabilities.

It's sad that the US markets are taking their sweet time, when they should be leading the pack. How can advertisers be ok with their ads being broadcasted at 480p, where you can't even read small text fine print during ads. 

The FCC is nearly useless and have made countless mistakes over the years. If only we had a _competitive_ public broadcaster leading the pack and putting pressure on private broadcasters...


----------



## KyL416

Europe also has an advantage because instead of going all in with HDTV in the beginning, their digital transition focused on delivering more channel choices. For the most part, HDTV for OTA viewers didn't come along until the mid-00s using H264, and many countries opted to use DVB-T2 for their HDTV muxes and DVB-T for their SD muxes.

Also in some European countries DTT is a lot more attractive since it's like an expanded basic cable lineup with a mostly uniform national lineup. They don't have a system of network TV affiliates with different owners like we do here, their local content is just opt outs during newscasts and ad breaks, along with some regional/state/provincial/city channels that mostly only show local programming.


----------



## MozzyMoz

I am watching the soccer WC on NJU RF35 and the image is not that great despite in theory being 1080i - I think the colors feel a bit washed and the players movements are not that sharp. I mean, I saw sharper images on NBC and CBS in football games OTA. It is just my perception but I guess you get my point.
On the other hand, any update on WZME from ESB? I turned my antenna towards WTC (I got LOS to downtown Manhattan from Queens), and now I get KOB vs just turning it towards south jamaica (to catch WEDW from CT). I am afraid with their peasized signal, KOB will disappear from my TV.


----------



## Mediterraneo

MozzyMoz said:


> I am watching the soccer WC on NJU RF35 and the image is not that great despite in theory being 1080i - I think the colors feel a bit washed and the players movements are not that sharp. I mean, I saw sharper images on NBC and CBS in football games OTA. It is just my perception but I guess you get my point.
> On the other hand, any update on WZME from ESB? I turned my antenna towards WTC (I got LOS to downtown Manhattan from Queens), and now I get KOB vs just turning it towards south jamaica (to catch WEDW from CT). I am afraid with their peasized signal, KOB will disappear from my TV.


WNJU sadly shares their spectrum with WNBC (also 1080i) and three other 480i channels. WNBC also has the same problem, where the blockiness of the low bitrate is quite visible most of the time. A single RF channel can barely support two 1080i channels at MPEG2, let alone three additional 480i channel on top of that.


----------



## Mediterraneo

KyL416 said:


> They don't have a system of network TV affiliates with different owners like we do here


I think this is a US-only quirk, I think, due to the FCC's 39% ownership-cap. Most countries have established nation-wide services, with regional variations that serve to complement the national news coverage or cover linguistic differences.

On the technical side, just came across this recently-published EU study:

"approximately 60% of all national multiplexes are already using the most advanced transmission standard (DVB-T2) with around 40% of them using the most advanced encoding standard (HEVC)"​


----------



## SnellKrell

Mediterraneo said:


> WNJU sadly shares their spectrum with WNBC (also 1080i) and three other 480i channels. WNBC also has the same problem, where the blockiness of the low bitrate is quite visible most of the time. A single RF channel can barely support two 1080i channels at MPEG2, let alone three additional 480i channel on top of that.


You're absolutely right!

Mark it up to corporate avarice.

During the FCC's Repack, stations were given the option to "sell" their frequencies.

NBC sold frequencies in 3 markets - NY, Chicago and Philadelphia, and made a windfall - $481.6 Million!!!!!

In selling WNBC's frequency, NBC picked up a cool $214.0 Million

So, there are 214,000,000 reasons why there's a lack of picture quality.

I continue to scratch my head -

The airwaves (frequencies) supposedly belong to us, the public.

How can NBC and other sell something they don't own????

Thank you, Congress.

Only in America!


----------



## KyL416

Mediterraneo said:


> I think this is a US-only quirk, I think, due to the FCC's 39% ownership-cap. Most countries have established nation-wide services, with regional variations that serve to complement the national news coverage or cover linguistic differences.


A lot of that has to do with when and how TV was developed. Over in Europe they had their share of experimental broadcasts during the 30s (including a famous one that was picked up on Long Island via E-Skip), but most of that infrastructure was destroyed during WWII, so their modern day TV started as part of nationwide post war reconstruction efforts. Here it was mostly developed by private entities like RCA and Westinghouse who were pretty much able to pick up right where they left off after the wartime suspension was over. It also helps that many European countries are more comparible to sizes of states. (i.e. The Netherlands is about twice the size of New Jersey)

ITV in the UK originally operated similar to what US networks do with different "Channel 3" franchises for each region, but eventually Carlton (London) and Granada (Manchester) bought out the remaining franchisees, merged, and unified the branding and schedules, except for Scotland where their 2 regional franchises are run by a seperate company called STV.

Japan's TV is very similar to the US though. Each prefecture has their own set of stations with unique branding that air a mix of network and local programming. Australia is kind of similar too, there's Seven, Nine and Ten in the metro cities, but regional areas have seperately owned affiliates like WIN and Southern Cross.


----------



## ansky212

Mediterraneo said:


> WNJU sadly shares their spectrum with WNBC (also 1080i) and three other 480i channels. WNBC also has the same problem, where the blockiness of the low bitrate is quite visible most of the time. A single RF channel can barely support two 1080i channels at MPEG2, let alone three additional 480i channel on top of that.


I don't think the networks are that concerned about picture quality because OTA is a free service. They don't have to worry about people calling to cancel because the service they provide is already free to begin with. If a service like Netflix had bad picture quality they would lose revenue from any customer that cancelled because of it. With OTA that's not an issue so there is no monetary incentive to make it better.


----------



## SnellKrell

ansky212 said:


> I don't think the networks are that concerned about picture quality because OTA is a free service. They don't have to worry about people calling to cancel because the service they provide is already free to begin with. If a service like Netflix had bad picture quality they would lose revenue from any customer that cancelled because of it. With OTA that's not an issue so there is no monetary incentive to make it better.


And, whether we like it or not, the OTA audience is insignificant to stations.


----------



## KyL416

Can anyone confirm what's now on WKOB 42.1 (RF 13)? Gracenote finally updated the listings, they have beIN Sports Xtra Espanol on 42.2 WKOBLD2 and Timeless TV on 42.3 WKOBLD3, but for 42.1 WKOBLD they are showing the listings for Visión Latina instead of beIN Sports Xtra English.

Also, for the few people who can get 45.x W02CY-D on RF 2 where WKOB's former channels ended up, Azteca America will be folding at the end of the year now that TV Azteca signed a content supply deal with Estrella TV.


----------



## MozzyMoz

Actually, Vision Latina is on 42.1, with quite a lot of religious programming in Portuñol (mix of Spanish with a heavy Brazilian Portuguese accent). At least at prime time hours, the channel seems to have original programming, not coming from a church or from Azteca TV (On the other hand, Azteca would have straight out bought Estrella, since it is a minor player in the Spanish speaking TV market and a content supply agreement is not enough to compete with Televisa-backed Univision).


----------



## Mediterraneo

SnellKrell said:


> And, whether we like it or not, the OTA audience is insignificant to stations.


According to this recent report, OTA audience is quite significant.


https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/antenna-adoption-grows-among-younger-viewers



As cord cutting hits record levels, a new study from Horowitz Research finds that in 2022, almost two in ten (18%) TV content viewers report having a digital antenna and that digital antenna ownership has grown among younger viewers from 14% in 2021 to 23% in 2022.​
The study found that younger viewers now over-index on digital antenna usage compared to their older (50+ year-old) counterparts (23% and 15%, respectively).​
The study also finds that Latinx viewers over-index on digital antenna ownership compared to all other segments (25%, compared to 18% among white non-Latinx and Black viewers, and 19% among Asian TV content viewers).​


----------



## SnellKrell

Mediterraneo said:


> According to this recent report, OTA audience is quite significant.
> 
> 
> https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/antenna-adoption-grows-among-younger-viewers
> 
> 
> ​As cord cutting hits record levels, a new study from Horowitz Research finds that in 2022, almost two in ten (18%) TV content viewers report having a digital antenna and that digital antenna ownership has grown among younger viewers from 14% in 2021 to 23% in 2022.​​The study found that younger viewers now over-index on digital antenna usage compared to their older (50+ year-old) counterparts (23% and 15%, respectively).​​The study also finds that Latinx viewers over-index on digital antenna ownership compared to all other segments (25%, compared to 18% among white non-Latinx and Black viewers, and 19% among Asian TV content viewers).​


I stand by my previous statement.

Although there may be some growth in the OTA audience, it's practically meaningless to Disney, Comcast and Paramount Global.

For the current broadcast season, Comcast invested more program development and production funds to Peacock 
than to NBC. If that were not bad enough, NBC was instructed to cut $1 Billion from this season's budget. And where is all of that money goiing - to streaming. NBC Owned stations are doing buyouts in their news departments.

Bob Iger at Disney has said that his main job is to make streaming profitable.

CBS has slashed network budgets. Even Colbert has been hit with the new economies at the network - only 4 original 
shows per week now.

I could go on and on.

The reality is that network television and local stations are dying on the vine and their demise is being speeded up by
the big guys draining their broadcast properties to prop up streaming.

I don't like it, My entire professional career has been in broadcasting and what's going on hurts!!!!!


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## MeatChicken

Mediterraneo said:


> According to this recent report, OTA audience is quite significant.
> 
> 
> https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/antenna-adoption-grows-among-younger-viewers
> 
> 
> ​​​The study found that younger viewers now over-index on digital antenna usage compared to their older (50+ year-old) counterparts (23% and 15%, respectively)......"​​


​ When it comes to the "younger" demo ...
It's possible many of them are cord cutters mostly for Netflix / Roku / Streaming, & simply buy an "antenna-dongle thingy" but actually watch next to nothing on broadcast-capable tv , other than an occasional sports event or a single show that isn't available on their streaming services, or for "emergency" only when their internet goes down .... ...


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## Riverside_Guy

Let us not forget that OTA is not really free... it's ad supported, meaning the customer faces a bad experience. The less customers using the service, the less potential for making money for the broadcaster. What REALLY fries me is the total lack of any ATSC 3.0 broadcasts in our market, certainly in the top 3 in the country.


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## Antenna Man PA

Riverside_Guy said:


> What REALLY fries me is the total lack of any ATSC 3.0 broadcasts in our market, certainly in the top 3 in the country.


It's probably explained a few posts back but in NYC all major networks are O&Os. With a few exceptions, the major networks aren't as interested in launching ATSC 3.0 compared to companies that have a financial interest in the new TV standard like Nexstar and Sinclair. I feel your pain though. Philadelphia has been promising ATSC 3.0 "coming this year" for the last four or five years. I'm not holding my breath for it. Everyone is asking me to review ATSC 3.0 TVs. I can't do it because none of the three markets I can pick up channels from have it yet.


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## Useeme1234

Antenna man, you can pickup 3 local markets that has be difficult to get a steady signal, you must get over 100 Ota channels on tbv scan, back in analog days i use to receive many channels from over 500 miles with tropo


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## steel guitar guy

Useeme1234 said:


> Antenna man, you can pickup 3 local markets that has be difficult to get a steady signal, you must get over 100 Ota channels on tbv scan, back in analog days i use to receive many channels from over 500 miles with tropo


 Not sure where in PA he is, but from watching his videos i would think he is somewhere near the Lehigh Valley or Pocono area.. With a good setup there and the right elevation, you can get NYC,Philly, Scranton and probably some stations from NJ out to Harrisburg as well, at least part of the time.. the town I live in is the same,, Some get nothing at all, not even 1 station. Others can get 4 markets reliably, probably 100 stations or more.. its all about elevation in so many places...


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## Mediterraneo

My antenna is picking up WTNH-DT (ABC8, transmitting from New Haven, CT) and WZME (Bridgeport, CT) from my location in Queens, this snowy morning. Might me a special meteorological event. It's nice seeing Story Television in 720p.


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## IT'S ME TOO

Mediterraneo said:


> My antenna is picking up WTNH-DT (ABC8, transmitting from New Haven, CT) and WZME (Bridgeport, CT) from my location in Queens, this snowy morning. Might me a special meteorological event. It's nice seeing Story Television in 720p.


Hi, When will the WEDW , from the empire state bldg, be up and running?? in the past on here someone said it would be in December, so where is it , i try the RF 21 that it should be on and nothing is there , ( i am in near coney island area). it was to be RF 21/43 or 32 ?


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## Mediterraneo

IT'S ME TOO said:


> Hi, When will the WEDW , from the empire state bldg, be up and running?? in the past on here someone said it would be in December, so where is it , i try the RF 21 that it should be on and nothing is there , ( i am in near coney island area). it was to be RF 21/43 or 32 ?


No idea, @KyL416 would have shared the news if there was any new development.


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## Brian in CT

IT'S ME TOO said:


> Hi, When will the WEDW , from the empire state bldg, be up and running?? in the past on here someone said it would be in December, so where is it , i try the RF 21 that it should be on and nothing is there , ( i am in near coney island area). it was to be RF 21/43 or 32 ?


According to RabbitEars.info, their current DTS construction permit doesn't expire until May 2023. So, it could be a number of months before WEDW/WZME from the ESB signs on.


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## ansky212

Brian in CT said:


> According to RabbitEars.info, their current DTS construction permit doesn't expire until May 2023. So, it could be a number of months before WEDW/WZME from the ESB signs on.


And even if the work does not get completed by then they will just file an extension. I would think that getting an antenna installed on the ESB is a very complicated procedure requiring a lot of coordination and planning.


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## NECRAT

IT'S ME TOO said:


> Hi, When will the WEDW , from the empire state bldg, be up and running??


They're still working on the tower. There's Instagram video shorts showing the ongoing work posted by the tower crew. There has been a lot of "RF cleanup" going on, on that tower.


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## ansky212

NECRAT said:


> They're still working on the tower. There's Instagram video shorts showing the ongoing work posted by the tower crew. There has been a lot of "RF cleanup" going on, on that tower.


Is it a matter of a few more weeks? Months?


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## uddiny500

NECRAT said:


> IT'S ME TOO said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, When will the WEDW , from the empire state bldg, be up and running??
> 
> 
> 
> They're still working on the tower. There's Instagram video shorts showing the ongoing work posted by the tower crew. There has been a lot of "RF cleanup" going on, on that tower.
Click to expand...

Can you send a link to the Instagram posts?


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## totalownership

Joseph Rubin said:


> Not sure why but my signal is breaking up horribly on channel 7 now. Usually is stable enough. Now total crap


For months now channel 7 ABC New York has been total trash. Every other channel has no problems whatsoever but 7.1 is a stuttering mess.


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## LenL

No problem here 30 miles west of the broadcast tower.


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## Useeme1234

Joseph Rubin said:
Not sure why but my signal is breaking up horribly on channel 7 now. Usually is stable enough. Now total crap


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## Useeme1234

Joseph Rubin said:
Not sure why but my signal is breaking up horribly on channel 7 now. Usually is stable enough. Now total crap 

I found out last week, polar vortex ruin my signal on many ota, I use outdoor antenna 91xg, plus I`m only 5 miles away from Esb..is just getting back to normal


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## ansky212

I just noticed that WRNN 48.2 has changed programming from Circle TV to SHOPLC. So that is now 4 shopping networks carried on WRNN. Hard to believe shopping networks still exist in 2023.


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## totalownership

Useeme1234 said:


> Joseph Rubin said:
> Not sure why but my signal is breaking up horribly on channel 7 now. Usually is stable enough. Now total crap


How long has it been like this for you? Before channel 2 was giving minor problems but now that's rock solid-ish but 7 is terrible. I'm using HDhomerun Duo tuner to feed Emby and going to different devices.


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## Brian in CT

totalownership said:


> How long has it been like this for you? Before channel 2 was giving minor problems but now that's rock solid-ish but 7 is terrible. I'm using HDhomerun Duo tuner to feed Emby and going to different devices.


I'm getting my usually strong signal for ABC 7, and I'm 50 miles away from the ESB. It could be something local that's causing interference for you guys, or maybe tropo due to the warm weather.


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## NECRAT

uddiny500 said:


> Can you send a link to the Instagram posts?


Look for James_Marksbury_ on Instagram.


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